Hello there. First time visitor/First type poster. I’m sorry to jump in with questions but here goes... One of my Sulcatas, Henrietta was diagnosed with pneumonia after noticing some respiratory distress the other day. We were told to give Baytril 3.5cc IM every day. First question: Isn’t that is a lot of fluid to push into a tiny muscle. I am an ER nurse and we don’t give that much to babies in there muscles due to the size of them. 2nd Question: The vet was able to pull her hind leg out to give her the shot. When I tried this I was sure I lost my finger forever. There is absolutely no way can I get her leg out. She weighs 20 pounds and WILL NOT let me get it out.. I have been able to get a 25g needle in-between the scales on her front legs. Has any body ever tried this or is there a reason I shouldn’t do this. I think it would be less painful due to the larger muscle found in the front leg and less traumatic since I don’t have to force her hind leg out.


Of course her vet closes for the day on Wed (WT?) so we had to go to a vet about 30 50miles north and pay $300.00. We did a few x-rays and a physical exam and blam-o we were given the diagnosis that I already knew she had. Now I don’t mind spending this cash on my torts but that’s BIG money. Real BIG!!! 3rd Question: Is there a way to get this cheaper than $75.00/bottle (4days worth with and 8 more to go). If the other tort gets sick I won’t be able to feed the kids for the month.


One more thing: As mentioned I am a ER nurse. I do as sorts of hurtful things to people daily. It is killing me to have to give a shot to Henrietta every day.
I’m glad to have found this site in this moment...

Thank you in advance for your time and wisdom!

How old is she?, and how do you think she got pneumonia? What region do you live?

I live in So. Calif., and our vet bills are not that expensive.

She is about 5 years old
I think she got it from being too moist and cold..
I live is Fla..

CF

You can also use Baytril orally. But you would probably have the same problem getting it into her mouth as you do with the leg. Maybe you can inject it into a strawberry?? It was my belief that you were supposed to alternate between the two FRONT legs as the injection site. Reason being when you use the back legs it goes through the kidneys sooner.

Ask your vet if you can use Naxcel instead. Naxcel doesn't sting as bad as Baytril. The tortoises really HATE the Baytril injections and they will HATE you worse after only the first one!!

Baytril comes in two strengths...one for small mammals (dogs, cats, etc.) and one for large mammals (horses,e tc.) That's why it seems like such a large amount of liquid for you to use. It wasn't really made for tortoises. When you have a heavy tortoise, the vet will sometimes go to the large animal Baytril to avoid having to use such a large amount of liquid. But ask if you can use Naxcel instead. It works better than Baytril and doesn't cause as much stress.

Yvonne

My recent experience: First Vet $286.00 ( For two Greeks) Gave them injectable meds (now I can’t remember what that med was) for a week. She told me to only use the back legs because using the front legs causes it to go directly to the kidneys. No culture, no x-rays, just a diagnosis. After a week they had not improved. So I took them to Vet Number two.

Second Vet: He did an exam, and culture. Started them on Baytril, 2 weeks worth. The culture cost $60.00 the Baytril was $38.00 including the syringes. Office cost $30 per visit (this was for both my Greeks) and had me come back in a week with no cost for the second office visit. So I gave them Baytril injections for a week and took them back. The culture made sure what they had and what meds would work. Seems my Greeks had three bugs and only Baytril would treat all three. He gave me another 3 weeks of meds and told me when I started them on the second round to give it only every other day as it was hard on the animals and could be necrotic. He told me to rotate the legs and spot sites I questioned him on the meds going directly to the kidneys his answer was “Once they thought a Chelonians circulatory system was split but they have found out better. And it’s “Better to get some in than none”. So I bought a chart so I knew were the muscles were on a Chelonian. And gave them their shots. Now they are fine.

When my little Squirt (Sulcata) became sick (RI) I took her to the vet I will use for my torts from now on (vet 2) and she is well and healthy today.

My Female Greek was getting 4cc Wt about 920gm. and my male 2cc about half her size as was the Sulcata. The vet said the dose was done by weight. By the way we live in So. CA.

The injectable Baytril is different from the oral Baytril. Do NOT give injectable by mouth. Can you get another person to hold the back leg while you inject? You don't push the needle straight in, you give it SQ...just barely under the skin at an angle so it makes the skin bubble up about the size of a large green pea. Use a slightly different spot each time. Massage it a little after you inject to spread it out & lessen the pain. And no you shouldn't give it in the front leg. I know it would be so much easier.
In case you don't know...until 2 yrs ago when I became too disabled to do my job right, I worked 8 yrs at the vet hospital where one of the doctors is an exotics vet. I was his assistant. I have brought home 4 different gopher tortoises that were 12"- 14" that needed injections. I realize yours is larger. But I hope you can get some help. Good Luck
Patsy

Sorry to disagree with you, Patsy, but all my vet friends have told me that the injectable Baytril is ok to give orally.

Yvonne

Ok, I've made some phone calls and talked to other turtle people, vets and keepers and here's what they say. Baytril (Enroflaxin) comes in two strengths, one for small mammals and one for large mammals. That's the only difference. You CAN use Baytril as an oral medication.

Yvonne

I have heard (from my vet) that you can give Baytril orally but that it kills a lot of beneficial gut bacteria etc. and can cause other difficulties because of this. That is why they prefer to give it as an injection.

IMHO the bottom line is if you have a vet you trust it’s easy to follow his instructions (maybe not as easy to physically give the injection to the animal). But if you doubt your vet perhaps you should seek one you can build a trusting relationship with, one that you feel knows your animal and has its best interest at heart. A wise man recently told me “Just remember there is nothing wrong with you knowing more than your vet does about tortoise medicine. When you look for a vet make sure it's one that will listen to you and your suggestions. If they recommend a medicine you haven't heard of ask where they heard of it. Ask to see the article or website they found it on. Always question everything” After all we expect no less than that from an MD for us or our children.

Oh, yes Dee (a fellow forum member) told me she used a wooden spoon to help hold the leg out so she could give injections to her Sulcata. You might want to try that. You just kind of tuck it between the knee and the shell which prevents it from pulling it in along with your finger.

RERAT, I know this is a lot to take in when there is a medical and/or financial crisis. And like everything with tort or turt care there is many different ways to do things and opinions that go with them. But as a nurse you already know this I am sure.
I am no expert. However I would perhaps call other vets to find out the cost of Baytril and consider having a culture done. X-rays are fine and an exam is fine but neither will tell you what medication will work on what strain of bacteria your tort has unless cultured. Better to pay for the culture and make sure the right med is given than to give the med for a few weeks (which I did) and find out it is doing no good on the specific bacteria your tort has. Because if the wrong med is used then you still have to purchase the right med for the particular bacteria your tort has and this only adds to the expense and the trauma of additional injections. Just my personal opinion.

Perhaps someone on the forum in your area of Fl can suggest a vet that they have used and have confidence in.
Even P.M. you info on cost etc.