Robyn,

You are right on it. I've received two e-mails from two congresswomen from our state (on different issues, not about the tortoises), and I don't feel that they would do anything more to improve thing for the benefit of the general population. For this subject, I agree with you also, we, as turtles and tortoises lovers, should write to those in offices and let our voices being heard. Just mention to them that we have the ballots in our hands for the next election.

Also, thank you Yvonne for the site. I've signed and sent the sample letter to many of my friends.

Minh

So we should let them get burned, blown up, be poisoned, get run over by tanks and other vehicles?...
Apparently I don't get it. I think the relocation beats the alternatives with a stick. At least the poor things will have a fighting chance at survival!

No, they are trying to get the powers-that-be to find another solution.

Yvonne

Hi old4x4,

I'm sorry I have to disagree with you. The California Desert Tortoises are here first, like American Indians. We human have destroyed so many things on this earth for our own conveniences. Our own federal government has made the law to protect this special species, and now other agencies turn around and do the unthinkable act toward them. Relocation is never good, just look at our own species, lives are effected both physically and emotionally. Especially when WARS are the main reason. The Armny needs to exercise, I don't blame them however they could find another place to expand or move themselves somewhere else. These tortoises and their habitat have been existing here for many, many years, and I believe if we are not carefull, our children, grand children and future generation might not see them anymore in the wild. What a major lost this would be!


Minh

Okay don't shoot me here, this is simply playing the role of devil's advocate and asking this question. Does not mean this is what I feel or think, ok?

Where is there that the military could go to, that would not impact native species and people?

Jacqui,

I think they should move to Crawford, Texas. Or Fort Chaffee, Arkansas, I don't know the armmy still using this place for training exercise now or not but in 1975, this entire army base was one of places in the country providing housing for refugees from Vietnam war. Here in California, they could utilize a closed Aire Force base(I could not recall the name) in Orange County to store their equipments. Here is another idea, they should move to the empty farmlands (here in America) which are owned by many extremely wealthy individuals and companies who are taking advantage of the farmland bill by growing NOTHING on their land but still receive PAYMENT from our government every year. These come from your mine, and every hard-working americans taxe dollars.

I don't want to divert the attention to other subject, the priority is still the welfare of these Califonia DTs. So please everyone sign the petition and spread the words to your families and friends, we still need more signatures.

Minh

I do understand both sides of the issue. The Military needs land for its purposes-training, expanding etc. The DTs need this land to survive as they have for centuries. This is the dilemma.

old4x4 you raised the question should we just let them get “burned, blown up, be poisoned, get run over by tanks and other vehicles?” No of course not.
Their must be other alternatives. They had several set up alternatives, here is a listing of some Documents that list some of those that you all may be interested in reading. http://www.fortirwinlandexpansion.com/Documents.htm
http://www.fortirwinlandexpansion.com/Ma...%20BLM.pdf

I even went to this website http://www.deserttortoise.gov/dtsm/ and requested permission to access the data. I am awaiting a reply.

Then I found this, it is the Sixty day notice of intent to sue for violations of section 7 and 9 the Endangered Species Act dated March 17, 2008 http://www.biologicaldiversity.org/speci...issues.pdf

and this: Environmentalists intend to sue over Fort Irwin's tortoise-relocation plan
http://www.pe.com/localnews/sbcounty/sto...82a37.html

In closing I feel we must remember these are a protected threatened and/or endangered species. There are laws that govern what happens if any one takes them, which is defined as; harass, harm, pursue, hunt, shoot, wound, kill, trap, capture, or collect or to attempt to engage in any such conduct.
This should include; All persons whether individual, groups, clubs or The Department of Defense, (DOD), fish and wildlife or Bureau of Land Management or our elected officials.
These peoples should be working to immediately halt further destruction of this species through "translocation" as well as the critical (and legally protected) habitats in which they survive.

”The Department of Defense, nor any agency should be immune to the laws created to protect sensitive-and sometimes endangered species of plants and animals.”

Robyn,

I was on some of the sites that you've listed above this past weekend, but forgot to write the addresses down, so I don't have them available to answer other posters. Thank you for sharing those with us here, I will bookmark them for future references.

Minh

Heya Robyn!

It's well researched information & critical thinking such as your last reply which makes the world a better place ~ Easy to see why you have such a high reputation here; we are all blessed to have you on the side of the torts! Bravo!

A Purpod Peep

Minh and purpod thank you for your kind words.
Just an quick update to my request from http://www.deserttortoise.gov/dtsm/ for permission to long onto the site. Here is the response I recieved this afternoon, which was no surprize.

"Hi Robyn,
The website is for sharing data amongst the many researchers and federal and state agencies. It is not, nor ever will be, accessible to the general public. Sorry.
If you have any questions I may be able to answer them.
AW"