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Hi your torts look like they are Easterns to me going by both the plastron and carapace pictures. They might not be underweight at all. Can you measure the straight line carapce length by placing each tort against the wall with the head in and make amark on the floor where the back end is. This is your SLC. Then weight with accurate scales and check against the Jackson Ratio. Then you will know if they are underweight.
My littlest tort (see pic above if it works) is 3.5 years old and weighs 36g. But this is a really small one, though he 's quite healthy and active. Some are just smaller than others.
Ozric
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Thanks, Ozric
. I weigh my torts with a postal scale I bought last year for that reason. I just reweighed both of them, and the sick one actually gained a gram in the past week (35 gm)! However the healthier one last a gram (33gm...I hope that doesn't mean he is getting sick).
They both measured 2 3/8 inches (60.69mm) SCL. I looked on the Jackson ration chart and it doesn't go that low
. The vet should be able to tell me if they are underweight or not.
By the way, your Hermann's is a real cutie!
Hi Ozric,
Hermann's are cute as hatchlings for sure.
And I'm not singling your's out. Your's is probably not small based on the appearance of the carapace - probable overfeeding(?) - evidenced by the space between the scutes.. as opposed to the "stacking" of the scutes commonly associated with "pyramiding"! I've seen this in a few of mine in the past also.. [ space between ]!
According to a brief article on page 28 in the Sept. '06 Reptiles magazine quoting Jon Coote [ too many credentials to list ] when he talks about pyramiding- " Recent research has shown that this is caused by tortoises not having access to a microclimate of high humidity to moisten the carapace during periods of growth".
And then he goes on to say.. " Getting tortoise keepers to respond positively to this new husbandry knowledge and putting it into practice has proved difficult ".
Amen Jon!
When we see ANY tortoise with ANY space between or the stacking of carapace scutes.. it is directly associated with diet/overfeeding and/or lack of humidity in their hide area. Regardless of the species.
Everybody.. learn from this! Your tortoise depends on it.
Terry
Thanks for the info Terry
. From our discussions, I knew that humidity loving species required a higher humidity in their hides to prevent pyramiding. I wondered if the same were true for species who don't require high humidity to remain healthy. Boy, learn something new everyday! I've been keeping the Hermann's humdity level in their hide area around 51%. I was going to ask the vet if I needed to lower it some, but like I said they were very dry appearing when I got them, and I felt like they needed the extra "boost". They have both been soaking themselves regularly...in fact it's the first thing they do upon waking every morning.
I noticed the swelling around the one's eye is completely gone...I think it may have bursted last night (it looked like he had a pinched off bubble hanging from the corner of his eye last night, and I could see the closed lid, though very pink.) Today his eye is somewhat open, and to me the eye itself looks okay. I am still keeping his appointment though, as I'm sure he will require an antibiotic eye ointment.
Well I we just got back from the vet, and all is not bad. The little guy has a severe eye infection, for which he gave me Teramycin ointment for, and he also prescribed Calglucon syrup to put on his and his vivarium mate's food twice a week until gone. His weight is normal for his age I found out (whew). He told me to bring him back in two weeks, and that he would have him back to normal in no time! All in all he said for what he has been through, he isn't in that bad of shape
.
well that's good to hear!!!
That's great news! Glad all is well.
Oh, and the vet said they are Eastern Hermann's.
tortania Wrote:Oh, and the vet said they are Eastern Hermann's.
You have a 12 yr. old Newfie?? I think that's a record no?
Na
You have a 12 yr. old Newfie?? I think that's a record no?
Na
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I don't know if it's a record or not..but I know it's very uncommon for them to live that long, yes. I don't know if the reason she has been around so long is because she is spayed (my German Shepard is neutered), and I let my dogs live in the house. She is starting to have some corneal clouding, getting a lot of white on her muzzle, and slowing down activity wise. I know our time is limited with her, and we're making the best of her last days
I am so happy to hear your new little ones are going to do fine. and that Nana is also- we all tend to slow when we reach a certain age. But being taken care of during that time is priceless
These look like Eastern / Boetgeri Hermanni's to me.
The diet they were on does not sound suitable.
They may or may not be underweight. There is a lot of varaiation in size and growth rate like with humans. If you measure the weight accurately and the straight line carapace length (SLC) you can check against the Jackson Ratio. This will tell you if they are underweight compared to healthy wild specimens.
Sounds like they are in good hands now!
Thanks Ozric
. I asked the vet whether or not they were underweight, and he said they both felt solid so probably not. The sick one weighed 36.8 grams on the vet's scale,and the healthier one weighed 35.6. Of course they had both eaten before they went, lol.
The other ones eyes are already looking better. The one that wasn't infected is nice and opened up today, and looks very clear. The infected eye is still closed, but isn't or raw looking anymore. Boy, it sure is a trick getting that ointment in his eyes! I hold his head between my index finger and thumb and try to open his eyes with my other hand and try to squeeze the ointment in before they close. I'm sure all will be worth it in the end. The little guy went to town on his food today...I guess because he could actually see it
I wouldn't be too worried about getting the ointment directly on the eyeball. It is absorbed through the lid. I approach the tortoise from above and behind so he can't see me coming, and just dab it on the eye, whether its open or closed. Then smear it around so it covers the whole eye area.
Yvonne
Thanks Yvonne
. I am getting the whole eye covered...I was a little concerned about not getting it in his eye because the vet tech said to make sure I did. But I figured, as much that is supposed to be applied (1/4"per eye), eventually when he opens them it's going to get in there. I feel better knowing it will actually be absorbed too