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Im just looking for more opinions here. He was purchased as a Western, but I am new to Hermanns and didnt know what to look for at the time. Apparently he shows characteristics of both.







I cant remember the breeders name in FL, but was informed she has added in an Eastern male to her Western group for some reason. I dont know.

Hey your tortoise is beautiful.
it is a THB (Testudo hermanni boettgeri)...and is male.
And has a slight form of pyramidding.
Cna be anumber of factors.
the tortoise pictured is he your tortoise? he looks like my tortoise daisy except larger.

Yes this is my tortoise. I recognized the mild pyramiding as well when I picked him up. He is 2.5 years old. So definitely Eastern huh? EgyptianDan said he thought he might be a mix of the two. Im working on his diet as well to try and improve the pyramiding.

ALSO, eastern and western hermanns cannot live together.
Even though they are hermanns the easter (THB) and the wester (THH) are 2 different tortoises

Yep he's a definite Eastern Hermann's (Testudo hermanni boettgeri).

Hybrids or "mixes" between both subspecies of hermann's tortoises are actually pretty common. There is a certain breeder in the USA that sells them almost every year. I have a hybrid myself and have worked with several of them over the years. It is definitely not recommended to keep both subspecies togther and I always keep them separated but if they are kept together they will most definitely breed and then you'll end up with hybrids. Hybrids are typically frowned upon but they sometimes just happen. The problem with hermann's tortoises is that people already have a hard enough time differentiating the 2 subspecies and hybrids only add to the mess.

To sum it up, yes they are out there but they are a problem to an extent so it's just best to keep the subspecies separate as with any species of tortoise.

also now that you mentioned the breeder was in Florida, I know EXACTLY who you are talking about and yes they are the ones responsible for quite a few of the hybrids floating around....

OK so I just need to start looking for some Eastern girlys for this fella. Thanks for your input Chris, I was hoping you would have an answer.

Hybrids are still wrong in my eyes.

Hi Anja,
It is definately a cross. Chris this came from you know who in Florida originally. She has since sold the group to someone in Georgia who are still breeding crosses. I saw them at the National Breeders Expo in Daytona this past August and checked out all the hatchlings. They were definately crosses.
I also have one of her crosses.

Danny

yep you're 100% right Dan.....it's a shame, I have 2 of her crosses as well. I also have a funny story for you regarding this ....

Hi Dan,

I wasnt doubting what you had told me, just wanted more input on it ya know. This is all new to me. Thanks to both of you.

are these the only species that hybridize?

I think so josh, im often baffled by hermanns breeding with each other.
Even though theyre not ment to live together, and not breed when they do the babies are always healthy cuz their care is identicle, and they are both hermanns.

But what i dont get is, a yellow foot couldnt breed with a redfoot, nor could a greek breed with an ibera.
even though theyre both seen as spurthighs.

I thought redfoots could breed with yellowfoots?

I think T-P meens in the wild those can not breed together in the wild so it's just wrong.