I saw on redffot .com that sphagnum mos was used a substrate was used.
I see R-zilla sells a Fir/sphagnum mix would this be a good substrate?
Also how deep would you suggest?
Mike

The fir in the mix is not good for herps. You want to stay away from any conifer (pine,cedar,redwood,fir) substrate. Do you have a Lowes near you, they sell Mosser Lee moss. In the hide I would suggest enough for the tort to burrow into and in the rest as deep as length of legs.

http://www.amazon.com/MOSSER-LEE-0110-MO...B000P73WLW

You can get it here if you can't find it at Lowe's or Home Depot.

I have seen the 'no fir or pine' comments before. What is the issue with fir or pine in herps?

Conifer wood gives off a poisionous gas. This is why cedar chests are good for storing clothing. Also pine products, i.e. pinesol, can't be used for animal holding facilities.

This post was last modified: 04-28-2008 02:57 AM by Itort.

Here's a story about pine: My sister ( notice how I always seem to blame her?) ran out of orchid bark (her substrate of choice) and went to a home improvement-type store to see if she could find more. They didn't have anything labelled "orchid bark" so she just bought something that looked like what she had been using. She put her baby sulcata, Tony, on his new substrate. After about a week he had swollen-shut eyes and was very sick. She happens to have a good relationship with a vet in her town (Corvallis, OR) and she took Tony to the vet. Dr. Vickstrom was able to stain the eyeball and take a good look at what was going on. She said the cornea was burned. They traced the problem to the new substrate, which after reading the label, turns out to be pine bark.

Tony is now about 4 years old, can't remember how big, but probably in the range of 10lbs or so, and still can't see out of one eye. I believe its the oils that are harmful.

Yvonne

These are not tortoises but basic biologic processes are the same. My wife and I raised show cats for about 10 years and had good success with them. Well we had the chance to purchase a small farm with outbuildings. After moving in and coverting one the buildings into a cattery for our breeders. We kept the show cats in the house with us. We began to have respiratory and eye problems with show cats but breeders stayed healthy as ever. It turned out that the previous owners used pinesol as a cleaning agent. After a thorough recleaning with biofriendly cleaners the problem disappeared. Consulting with our vets (small animal, exotic, and large animal) we did in fact find that these woods are toxic. If an animal that is able to avoid sustained contact with the surface can suffer like this, what is going to happen when it is confined in it. Well, that's my rant for the day.

Keep 'em coming! Those kinds of rants are very helpful!

Yvonne