Leopard doesn't like his new pad?

[DTSS]

Hi everyone,

We have a Leopard that we have been raising for the last year. We got him as a hatching and he's about the size of a softball now.

A little history: He eats like a pig. Every morning when we put fresh food in he hauls butt out of his cover and attacks his food until its gone. Then we usually feed him again in the afternoon and he goes to town again. His name is Piglet. He gets a good diet and a supplement on his food every few days. He gets soaked every three days and we offer shallow water in his enclosure because sometimes he like to sit in it.

We just moved him into a 30 gal enclosure three days ago. We figure this will be his last until we build an enclosure outside. There is a small heating pad under the tank where he sleeps that keeps the peat moss at around 70. There is also a blue "moon light" at night that keeps the ambient air around his cover at about 75. During the day his spot UV light and florescent UV comes on. This provides a basking temp of 95, and an ambient of around 85.

His appetite has decreased dramatically since the move. He just comes out a few times a day, nibbles a little bit, then goes back into his cover. He looks the same, no discharge or anything but doesn't seems as active or hungry anymore. The temps are in line with the old enclosure so I really can't see what has changed.

Is this normal behavior? My wife is freaking out because she loves the little guy and so do I. All comments are greatly appreciated!

Matt

[cvalda]

What was he in before?

[DTSS]

15 gal tank with heating pad, spot light, and florescent UV.

[cvalda]

It could be that he's still adjusting.

But as a general rule, keeping tortoises in glass tanks is not good for them, so hopefully he'll be in that for only a short short time - it's like an oven and doesn't offer the heat gradient they need. It would be better to have him in a large wooden box or a plastic storage tote. Also undertank heaters are not a good idea as they do burn easily. An overhead basking light of some sort would be much more ideal.

As for more specific needs, I'll leave that to the Leopard experts!

Good luck!

[JustAnja]

Glass tanks also do not allow for adequate air flow, plus the needed temperature gradient.

A rubbermaid tote with lower sides or a box constructed of wood like Kelly suggested will work better. Even an indoor rabbit cage will work nicely. They make a 4ft indoor rabbit cage that retails for about $90. You can even use a concrete mixing tub from the hardware store in a pinch, they are about $10. (you can search for concrete mixing tub and also rabbit cage on this forum and find some that I use, they will be in the Enclosures forum.

http://tortoiseforum.org/enclosures-f-7.html


A Leopard will need a warm end at about 90 with a basking spot of 100-110. His cool end should be about 70, his hide spot should be on this end. The undertank heater is not suggested for tortoises. A ceramic heat emitter or a large watt basking bulb would be much better to add to his UVB lighting. Tortoises have to thermoregulate their bodies so go back and forth between a cooler area and a warmer area to do so.

[DTSS]

JustAnja Wrote:A Leopard will need a warm end at about 90 with a basking spot of 100-110. His cool end should be about 70, his hide spot should be on this end.

I just checked this tank with a laser thermometer. The cool end is 70, his hot spot is 103, and everywhere else is about 85.

I really appreciate the advice on glass tanks and all that but please keep in mind that this is not a new tortoise. He has been living like this for a year and has been growing like crazy. This all changed when I put him in a new enclosure.

So it sound like my temperature gradient is fine. Any other suggestions?

[Crazy1]

Matt, I am not an advocate of glass tanks, but I know those that have used them successfully especially with small torts. That being said, and since everything else is about the same as the 15 gal. tank perhaps it’s the size of the tank itself. You now have increased the size of his world by almost double. We look at it as a good thing, that we are giving them more room. They may look at it as scary and open and makes them more vulnerable. Perhaps it will take some time for him to feel secure in the new larger size tank. Some torts don’t seem to adjust quickly to larger areas, or change. Just my opinion

[DTSS]

Crazy1 Wrote:You now have increased the size of his world by almost double. We look at it as a good thing, that we are giving them more room. They may look at it as scary and open and makes them more vulnerable. Perhaps it will take some time for him to feel secure in the new larger size tank. Some torts don’t seem to adjust quickly to larger areas, or change. Just my opinion

You could be right Robyn. Today was a better day. He was out cruising around a lot today and ate a good deal of food. So hopefully this is just an adjustment period. We will keep an eye on him for the next few days.

Now...

I am the the kind of person that likes to do things the right way, regardless of cost. I am also not new to raising reptiles. But I am having some trouble with some of the things said about glass tanks. I am not trying to be argumentative and start a debate, because I really only care about whats best for my tort. So please help me understand some of the comments.

Like:
1. "You can't get the temp gradient you need with glass." Obviously you can if my tank is 70 degrees on one side and 103 on the other. (85-87 in the middle)
2. "Its like an oven" How? Any enclosure can be an oven with too much heat applied. If you monitor your temps to determine the proper wattage of your heat sources, how is this different than anything else?
3. "Glass tanks also do not allow for adequate air flow" And wood or plastic ones do? How is the airflow from a solid wall plastic or wood enclosure with an open top different from a glass enclosure with an open top? Air can only come from the top of any of these enclosures.

AGAIN, Im not arguing or debating, just trying to understand the thought process. Thanks.

[emysemys]

Hi DTSS: You've raised all the points I've always wanted to make, but was too chicken to try. Yes, an aquarium could be an oven or have no temp gradient, or have no air flow if you place a tight fitting cover on it. But the same would hold true with a plastic tub.

My reasoning for not using a glass aquarium is that the little guy inside has no concept of a wall you can see through and they spend all their time trying to walk through it. Its easier to put them into a large plastic tub than trying to cover the glass walls so the animal can't see out. I just like plastic better. (and a Sterilite or Rubbermaid tub is Wa-a-a-ay cheaper than an aquarium)

Yvonne

[JustAnja]

........nevermind

[DTSS]

JustAnja Wrote:........nevermind

What's your problem? You have changed your response three times.????

Sorry, but like most people, when someone tells me I shouldn't do something I ask why. I didn't say you were wrong and our tort is not a piece of "furniture" like you stated in the post you removed just because he is in a glass tank. He very important to us and thats why I started this post in the first place. Lighten up.

[JustAnja]

Sorry but do you think your the first one to ask these things.......

[JustAnja]

Every one comes on and asks *what could be wrong with my tort?* but no one ever really wants to hear what anyone has to say. I think I might need a break from TFO.

[cvalda]

http://tortoisetrust.org/articles/vivarium.htm

I think the only thing left out in that article is that many torts (tho' not all) can feel very stressed out in glass tanks because they can see out - so they want to go out but can't due to the glass (something they totally don't understand) and this causes a lot of stress.

(be sure to follow the link off that article to "heating" to read about using heat pads and under tank heaters)

[DTSS]

cvalda Wrote:http://tortoisetrust.org/articles/vivarium.htm

I think the only thing left out in that article is that many torts (tho' not all) can feel very stressed out in glass tanks because they can see out - so they want to go out but can't due to the glass (something they totally don't understand) and this causes a lot of stress.

(be sure to follow the link off that article to "heating" to read about using heat pads and under tank heaters)

Thank you for that link. There is some good information there. A little education on why so many are opposed to glass is all I was asking. We will re-think his housing because this needs to last another year until his enclosure is built outside.

Thank you and everyone else that had an intelligent response.

Matt