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JustAnja · (This post was last modified: 03-26-2008 02:16 AM by JustAnja.)

As most of you know I recently made a deal to purchase 1.5 adult Three Toed Box turtles. Well today is now supposed to be the day he is shipping, since he couldnt do it Mon or Tues. Now I wake up to find an email telling me he is going to have to ship them USPS (ILLEGAL) or ask for more money for shipping. He quoted $50 for shipping and thats what I have paid him. I will not agree to let him ship USPS since I know its illegal to ship turtles in that manner. Ive been waiting a week for him to ship them and now on ship day he comes up with this. A couple of times he has offered to refund my money for various reasons, such as not getting me the pics he promised. I think he is just trying to flake on me because someone offered him more money for the turtles. He did mention when he was waiting the 2 days for my deposit on them that he had others waiting. Im so mad right now I cant see straight.

Here is his email from this morning....

Quote:I will have to ship USPS, if it can't go overnight to your location, I will need more money for shipping or will refund you. an 18" x 18" box from 8-18" high is $160 overnighted to your house via ups. USPS is $80 and I will cover the extra (you paid 50, and minus my paypal charges I only receivd 137, so the math isn't difficult here. I am only covered with $57 via usps (the cheapest route). Thanks Andrew,

Sorry but I just wanted to rant a little on this and see what everyone else thinks.....Also I did receive my adult RF tort male who is nearly 5lbs overnight via USPS and it cost them a whopping $32. (I was not told they were shipping him this way, but they did claim torts are legal, not turtles so I dont know) I really find $80 very hard to swallow.

Itort · 03-26-2008, 03:10 AM

I think he's trying to squeeze every possible penny he can out of this sale. This is probably a common business practice of his. If you don't mind, perhaps publishing this info along with personal name and business name will help others to avoid him. If he sells on kingsnake, I think they would want this info. Does he sell other herps ?

Chipdog · 03-26-2008, 03:18 AM

Just an idea but where is this guy located? It seems like there are quite a few people on this board from all over the place. With all of the help you offer everyday maybe if someone was in the same area as this guy maybe someone could pick up your new to be friends and ship them the proper way.

just a thought
chip

JustAnja · 03-26-2008, 04:10 AM

This guy replied to an ad I placed on kingsnake looking for female Three Toeds. He priced them to me at $25, so I ended up taking all 5 and he was throwing in the male for free because he was *skinny from breeding*. No big deal, I have 3 adults males.

I will wait to see how he handles things today before I post his information. But if this gets nasty I will be posting his details and will post them over at the BOI as well.

This is my reply to him.

Code:

If your not going to ship for the agreed upon price, LEGALLY than please just refund my money. Shipping turtles via USPS is illegal.

Also I did have someone ship me a large adult redfoot tortoise without my prior knowledge via USPS and it cost them $32 overnight. This was a rather large box and a 5lb tortoise. I find $80 hard to believe.

JustAnja · 03-26-2008, 05:22 AM

He has refunded my money this morning, but only after accusing me of getting snippy over shipping??? Gotta love it when they try to turn things around on you. lol He had 2 weeks to determine his shipping was going to cost more, he should not have set and agreed on a price including shipping without getting a quote first. That was stupid on his part.

He also says that turtles were OK'd about 5 years ago with the US Postal Service. Anyone know anything on that? I know for sure in 2003-2004 they were still against USPS regulations. I have not heard of anything changing.

Itort · 03-26-2008, 05:36 AM

To tell the truth I have never cared for USPS for shipping any animals because of their rather cavalier atitude. I know that overnite USPS can take up to 4 days (I lost 50 heritage turkey polts this way) and livestock losses are responsibility of shipper and receiver, therefore I avoid when I can. Now we all know UPS, DHL, and FEDEX don't deliver to the wilds of Wisconsin even though they will to the wilds of Iowa.

JustAnja · 03-26-2008, 05:50 AM

I especially like this reply from him this morning regarding the $80 USPS quote. Note my zip code is 53091. I just went and checked and for an 18*18*18 box weighing 5lbs. (6 adult box turtles wont weigh much more than that right?) I got Priority Mail 2 days $35.95 (overnight not available from his zip to mine)

Quote:you can find it hard to believe all you want.... If you want to be skeptical, go to usps.com and type in the dimensions of the box from zipcode 98418 overnighted to your zipcode.

would you like a check for the total minus my paypal charges or would you like me to be decent?

Itort · 03-26-2008, 05:55 AM

Who is this?

JustAnja · 03-26-2008, 06:14 AM

Some guy named Andrew Owen from Tacoma, WA. If you would like me to send you the emails so that you can see what went on from day one message me and give me your email address.

Basically I had posted an ad looking for adult female Three Toeds on kingsnake. A couple of weeks later he replied to me offering females, said he had plenty. (I had just picked up the Hermanns from Ann so I didnt have the disposable cash that I had when I posted the ad) I asked him how much for 3-4 and he told me $25 each. I asked how many he had available and he told me 5, he offered all 5 plus the free male for $175 shipped. I agreed and asked if he would mind me making a pmt the Wed coming up and one the following Wed when my direct deposits go in. He agreed and I actually sent him the first pmt a day or two ahead of time. Last Wed a week ago is when I made the 2nd pmt and he said he would be shipping Monday. Well Monday comes and he had emailed sometime during the night saying he wouldnt be able to make it to UPS Mon or Tues and could be ship Wed. I agreed and just said that was OK as long as they actually went out Wed, since I dont like to have anything shipped any later in the week than that. Then I wake up today, shipping day, to the email basically demanding more money for shipping the turtles. I never once got snippy with him regarding shipping and agreed to everything he had asked and followed through with everything on my end as agreed. Im still sticking with someone offered him more money for them and he regretted offering them to me for that price.

Well now I am back to square one looking for more adult female Three Toed Box Turtles. lol

JustAnja · 03-26-2008, 06:17 AM

Oh and just for snits and giggles here is the UPS quote I just got. lol

UPS Next Day Air Early A.M.®

Billable Weight: 5.0 lbs.
1 10:00 A.M.
Thursday
March 27, 2008 105.94 USD*
Ship
UPS Next Day Air®

Billable Weight: 5.0 lbs.
1 12:00 P.M.
Thursday
March 27, 2008 72.17 USD*
Ship
UPS Next Day Air Saver®

Billable Weight: 5.0 lbs.
1 By End of Day
Thursday
March 27, 2008 65.41 USD*

JustAnja · 03-26-2008, 06:28 AM

A friend located the information regarding the regulations for me.

Quote:601 Mailability

9.3.3 Small Cold-Blooded Animals

Small, harmless, cold-blooded animals (except snakes and turtles) that do not require food or water or attention during handling in the mail and that do not create sanitary problems or obnoxious odors are mailable (e.g., baby alligators and caimans not more than 20 inches long, bloodworms, earthworms, mealworms, salamanders, leeches, lizards, snails, and tadpoles).

9.6.5 Criminal Penalties

18 USC 1716B provides criminal penalties for mailing anything nonmailable under 39 USC 3014(b), unless the item is excepted under USPS regulations. 18 USC 1716D provides criminal penalties for mailing anything nonmailable under 39 USC 3015© and (d).

1998 Federal Sentencing Guidelines
§2Q2.1. Offenses Involving Fish, Wildlife, and Plants

(a) Base Offense Level: 6

(b) Specific Offense Characteristics

(1) If the offense (A) was committed for pecuniary gain or otherwise involved a commercial purpose; or (B) involved a pattern of similar violations, increase by 2 levels.

(2) If the offense (A) involved fish, wildlife, or plants that were not quarantined as required by law; or (B) otherwise created a significant risk of infestation or disease transmission potentially harmful to humans, fish, wildlife, or plants, increase by 2 levels.

(3) (If more than one applies, use the greater):

(A) If the market value of the fish, wildlife, or plants exceeded $2,000, increase the offense level by the corresponding number of levels from the table in §2F1.1 (Fraud and Deceit); or

(B)If the offense involved (i) marine mammals that are listed as depleted under the Marine Mammal Protection Act (as set forth in 50 C.F.R. § 216.15); (ii) fish, wildlife, or plants that are listed as endangered or threatened by the Endangered Species Act (as set forth in 50 C.F.R. Part 17); or (iii) fish, wildlife, or plants that are listed in Appendix I to the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species of Wild Fauna or Flora (as set forth in 50 C.F.R. Part 23), increase by4 levels.

Commentary

Statutory Provisions: 16 U.S.C. §§ 668(a), 707(b), 1174(a), 1338(a), 1375(b), 1540(b), 3373(d); 18 U.S.C. § 545. For additional statutory provision(s), see Appendix A (Statutory Index).

Application Notes:

1. "For pecuniary gain" means for receipt of, or in anticipation of receipt of, anything of value, whether monetary or in goods or services. Thus, offenses committed for pecuniary gain include both monetary and barter transactions. Similarly, activities designed to increase gross revenue are considered to be committed for pecuniary gain.

2. The acquisition of fish, wildlife, or plants for display to the public, whether for a fee or donation and whether by an individual or an organization, including a governmental entity, a private non-profit organization, or a private for-profit organization, shall be considered to involve a "commercial purpose."

3. For purposes of subsection (b)(2), the quarantine requirements include those set forth in 9 C.F.R. Part 92, and 7 C.F.R. Chapter III. State quarantine laws are included as well.

4. When information is reasonably available, "market value" under subsection (b)(3)(A) shall be based on the fair-market retail price. Where the fair-market retail price is difficult to ascertain, the court may make a reasonable estimate using any reliable information, such as the reasonable replacement or restitution cost or the acquisition and preservation (e.g., taxidermy) cost. Market value, however, shall not be based on measurement of aesthetic loss (so called "contingent valuation" methods).

5. If the offense involved the destruction of a substantial quantity of fish, wildlife, or plants, and the seriousness of the offense is not adequately measured by the market value, an upward departure may be warranted.

Background: This section applies to violations of the Endangered Species Act, the Bald Eagle Protection Act, the Migratory Bird Treaty, the Marine Mammal Protection Act, the Wild Free- Roaming Horses and Burros Act, the Fur Seal Act, the Lacey Act, and to violations of 18 U.S.C. § 545 where the smuggling activity involved fish, wildlife, or plants.
Historical Note: Effective November 1, 1987. Amended effective January 15, 1988 (see Appendix C, amendment 41); November 1, 1989 (see Appendix C, amendments 209 and 210); November 1, 1991 (see Appendix C, amendment 407); November 1, 1992 (see Appendix C, amendment 452); November 1, 1995 (see Appendix C, amendment 534).

A little light reading for everyone. I would assume each turtle mailed would be considered a violation, so it potentially would be 6 violations, and from what I have read about mailing snakes, the receiver (ME!) would be subject to penalty as well for smuggling or as an accomplice to smuggling.

Itort · 03-26-2008, 06:39 AM

I think some people have a problem with the concept of a contract (written or oral) or honor of their word. I wish him luck in the rest of his life with this attitude, he's going to need it bad.

Tatooineboy · 03-26-2008, 06:47 AM

Itort Wrote:I think some people have a problem with the concept of a contract (written or oral) or honor of their word. I wish him luck in the rest of his life with this attitude, he's going to need it bad.

See, this is the exact reason why it's a good idea to have a Seller/Breeder Comment section in our forums here. It will give other users an idea as to whom they are really dealing with.

JustAnja · 03-26-2008, 06:58 AM

OK Im just going to post it all here, because he is really pi$$ing me off.

Quote:Subject: Message about: Adult Female Three Toed Box Turtles wanted
------------------------

From:
Date: Sat, Mar 8, 2008 at 6:27 PM
To: aj.buffalo@gmail.com

*************
NOTE: This message was sent to you via the Kingsnake.com Classifieds. If you feel this message is fraudulent or abusive please forward it to classifieds@pethobbyist.com.
NOTE: DO NOT flag this message as SPAM/JUNK as your ability to receive legitimate messages from Kingsnake.com Classifieds may be compromised
*************

are you still looking for female three toes? let me know, i have plenty

----------------------------------------------
Click on (or cut and paste into you browser's
location window) the URL below to view the ad that
this message is in response to.

http://market.kingsnake.com/detail.php?de=578795&cat=39

----------------------------------------------
This message was sent by the user: vcreations

Sent 05:27 PM, Mar 08th, 2008 from I.P. Address 24.19.116.245/c-24-19-116-245.hsd1.mn.comcast.net

----------
From: AJ Buffalo <aj.buffalo@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, Mar 8, 2008 at 8:37 PM
To:

What kind of prices do you have?

Thanks
--
Anjanette Buffalo
http://crotalusco.com/
http://wttsonline.org/
http://venom-center.com/
http://wireptiles.com/
http://peppercenter.com/
http://tortoisehead.wordpress.com/
----------
From: Andrew Owen
Date: Sat, Mar 8, 2008 at 8:42 PM
To: AJ Buffalo <aj.buffalo@gmail.com>

they are 25 each plus shipping. I want to move 4-5 at once. i have 22 total and 5 extra females. some are brown, some are lighter with red faces, etc. the sex is guaranteed. thanks

Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2008 19:37:27 -0600
From: aj.buffalo@gmail.com
To:
Subject: Re: Message about: Adult Female Three Toed Box Turtles wanted

Need to know the score, the latest news, or you need your Hotmail®-get your "fix". Check it out.
----------
From: AJ Buffalo <aj.buffalo@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, Mar 8, 2008 at 8:43 PM
To: Andrew Owen

OK How much for 4 shipped to 53091. The more color the better of course but I am willing to take a mixed set.
----------
From: Andrew Owen <anowen23@hotmail.com>
Date: Sat, Mar 8, 2008 at 8:55 PM
To: AJ Buffalo

150 shipped (i won't take a hit on shipping at 25 a piece)

thanks, andrew

Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2008 19:43:44 -0600

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----------
From: AJ Buffalo <aj.buffalo@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, Mar 8, 2008 at 8:57 PM
To: Andrew Owen

Allright, will you take half on Wed and the other half the following Wed? (Just bought a group of Hermanns torts after posting that ad or I would have had the cash available now) Do you accept Paypal?
----------
From: Andrew Owen
Date: Sat, Mar 8, 2008 at 8:59 PM
To: AJ Buffalo <aj.buffalo@gmail.com>

yeah, I accept paypal. i will have to hold them until they are paid for. this is my paypal address. i will look at my balance on thursday before posting them on kingsnake.

thanks, andrew

Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2008 19:57:14 -0600

Helping your favorite cause is as easy as instant messaging. You IM, we give. Learn more.
----------
From: AJ Buffalo <aj.buffalo@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, Mar 8, 2008 at 9:02 PM
To: Andrew Owen

Thanks I appreciate it. How many females do you have total? I may try to take more depending on what I have coming out of my check on the 19th. I can also see if anyone else is interested here locally that might want to go in on the order with me. Do you have males available as well?

Thanks

Anja
----------
From: Andrew Owen
Date: Sat, Mar 8, 2008 at 9:06 PM
To: AJ Buffalo <aj.buffalo@gmail.com>

i only have one extra male and 5 females. the one extra male is too skinny though. i don't know what happened, he may have been too busy breeding and not busy enough eating. he would need some tlc and would be free. all the others are very healthy

Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2008 20:02:12 -0600

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----------
From: AJ Buffalo <aj.buffalo@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, Mar 8, 2008 at 9:09 PM
To: Andrew Owen

OK so another $25 for the last female you have and the skinny male? Thats all of them correct? (just making sure i understand right here. lol)

You have 1.5 available all total. $175 shipped for all of them?
----------
From: Andrew Owen
Date: Sat, Mar 8, 2008 at 9:11 PM
To: AJ Buffalo <aj.buffalo@gmail.com>

yes, thats correct. thanks

Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2008 20:09:00 -0600

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----------
From: AJ Buffalo <aj.buffalo@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, Mar 8, 2008 at 9:13 PM
To: Andrew Owen

OK then I will just take the whole group. That will make it easier all the way around. I will send $75 this Wed and 100 the following Wed.

thanks!
----------
From: Andrew Owen
Date: Sat, Mar 8, 2008 at 9:14 PM
To: AJ Buffalo <aj.buffalo@gmail.com>

Thank You. Is your name AJ?

thanks, andrew

Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2008 20:13:48 -0600

----------
From: AJ Buffalo <aj.buffalo@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, Mar 8, 2008 at 9:39 PM
To: Andrew Owen

Yes I also go by AJ. (Anjanette, Anja, AJ)
----------
From: AJ Buffalo <aj.buffalo@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, Mar 9, 2008 at 2:36 PM
To: Andrew Owen

Hey Andrew, I forgot to ask. Can you by chance send any pics of them?
----------
From: Andrew Owen
Date: Sun, Mar 9, 2008 at 3:08 PM
To: AJ Buffalo <aj.buffalo@gmail.com>

yeah, i can send you some pics by tuesday. i have three other people begging to take these off my hands, so i am looking forward to your down payment.

thanks, andrew

Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2008 14:36:43 -0500

----------
From: AJ Buffalo <aj.buffalo@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, Mar 9, 2008 at 5:32 PM
To: Andrew Owen

Thanks
----------
From: AJ Buffalo <aj.buffalo@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, Mar 11, 2008 at 7:34 AM
To: Andrew Owen

$100 pmt sent this morning.
----------
From: Andrew Owen
Date: Tue, Mar 11, 2008 at 5:27 PM
To: AJ Buffalo <aj.buffalo@gmail.com>

ok, thanks AJ. I will try to get you some pics by tonight. i am going home and have a soccer game to hit as soon as I get there (kids)

thanks, andrew

Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 07:34:57 -0500

----------
From: AJ Buffalo <aj.buffalo@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, Mar 11, 2008 at 5:43 PM
To: Andrew Owen

Thanks, I look forward to seeing the pics and getting them here.
----------
From: Andrew Owen
Date: Wed, Mar 12, 2008 at 9:06 AM
To: AJ Buffalo <aj.buffalo@gmail.com>

Hi AJ, sorry I didn't get your pics out last night. I will try again tonight. No kids stuff tonight...

andrew

Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 17:43:40 -0500

----------
From: AJ Buffalo <aj.buffalo@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, Mar 12, 2008 at 9:47 AM
To: Andrew Owen

No problem, thanks.
----------
From: Andrew Owen
Date: Thu, Mar 13, 2008 at 6:51 AM
To: AJ Buffalo <aj.buffalo@gmail.com>

hi AJ, if you want a refund, no problem and we can cancel this. I just haven't gotten to the pics. i got home last night and delivered my crested gecko collection and green trees. (i am paring down). i do have a nice camera and i will take some nice pics. just let me know what you want. i will check my email about 11 am pacific. andrew

Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 09:47:49 -0500

----------
From: AJ Buffalo <aj.buffalo@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, Mar 13, 2008 at 6:53 AM
To: Andrew Owen

I dont have a problem waiting for the pics, i was just curious to see them.
----------
From: Andrew Owen
Date: Fri, Mar 14, 2008 at 12:08 AM
To: AJ Buffalo <aj.buffalo@gmail.com>

Here you go AJ, there are 5 females and one skinny male that is having problems since breeding like nuts. he was covering about 8 females and just wouldn't stop.
they aren't the best pics, sorry about that...andrew

Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 06:53:11 -0500

----------
From: AJ Buffalo <aj.buffalo@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, Mar 19, 2008 at 8:27 AM
To: Andrew Owen

Hi Andrew,

Final pmt has been sent. If there is any chance they can be sent out this afternoon please let me know. If not I would like to wait until Monday to have them shipped. Just let me know.

Which carrier will you be sending them through?

Thanks

AJ
----------
From: Andrew Owen
Date: Wed, Mar 19, 2008 at 12:31 PM
To: AJ Buffalo <aj.buffalo@gmail.com>

I'm going to ship on Monday, let me know what the weather will look like please...Andrew

Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 08:27:19 -0500

----------
From: AJ Buffalo <aj.buffalo@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, Mar 20, 2008 at 9:10 PM
To: Andrew Owen

Hi Andrew,

Looks like a high of 38 on Tues and a high of 43 on Wed here. Low of 27 Mon night.
----------
From: Andrew Owen
Date: Sun, Mar 23, 2008 at 7:17 PM
To: AJ Buffalo <aj.buffalo@gmail.com>

Hi AJ, the best time for me to get to UPS (it's open when I'm at work and closed when I'm not) is Wednesday, I just have too much going on Monday and Tuesday. Can we do Wednesday for Thursday? Thanks, Andrew

Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 21:10:50 -0500

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----------
From: AJ Buffalo
Date: Sun, Mar 23, 2008 at 7:26 PM
To: Andrew Owen <anowen23@hotmail.com>

Yea I guess so, as long as it goes Wed.

Thanks
----------
From: Andrew Owen
Date: Sun, Mar 23, 2008 at 7:36 PM
To: AJ Buffalo <aj.buffalo@gmail.com>

Thanks, I was just looking at my Outlook and can't find a time on my calendar these first two days that works at all. I appreciate that. You will be getting your turtles on Thursday. Thanks for your understanding, Andrew

Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2008 19:26:48 -0500

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----------
From: Andrew Owen
Date: Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 9:19 AM
To: AJ Buffalo <aj.buffalo@gmail.com>

AJ, I am sending out tomorrow morning...

What's your address again? What's the weather like?

Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2008 19:26:48 -0500

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----------
From: AJ Buffalo <aj.buffalo@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 9:29 AM
To: Andrew Owen

Weather is in the 40s so will be good.
Thanks!
----------
From: Andrew Owen
Date: Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 1:16 AM
To: AJ Buffalo <aj.buffalo@gmail.com>

I will have to ship USPS, if it can't go overnight to your location, I will need more money for shipping or will refund you. an 18" x 18" box from 8-18" high is $160 overnighted to your house via ups. USPS is $80 and I will cover the extra (you paid 50, and minus my paypal charges I only receivd 137, so the math isn't difficult here. I am only covered with $57 via usps (the cheapest route). Thanks Andrew,

Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 09:29:03 -0500

----------
From: AJ Buffalo <aj.buffalo@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 5:06 AM
To: Andrew Owen

HI Andrew,

If your not going to ship for the agreed upon price, LEGALLY than please just refund my money. Shipping turtles via USPS is illegal.
----------
From: AJ Buffalo
Date: Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 5:14 AM
To: Andrew Owen <anowen23@hotmail.com>

Also I did have someone ship me a large adult redfoot tortoise without my prior knowledge via USPS and it cost them $32 overnight. This was a rather large box and a 5lb tortoise. I find $80 hard to believe.
----------
From: Andrew Owen
Date: Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 7:20 AM
To: AJ Buffalo <aj.buffalo@gmail.com>

no, it's not....

and yes, i will gladly refund you

Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 05:06:44 -0500

----------
From: Andrew Owen
Date: Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 7:22 AM
To: AJ Buffalo <aj.buffalo@gmail.com>

you can find it hard to believe all you want.... If you want to be skeptical, go to usps.com and type in the dimensions of the box from zipcode 98418 overnighted to your zipcode.

would you like a check for the total minus my paypal charges or would you like me to be decent?

Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 05:14:57 -0500

How well do you know your celebrity gossip? Talk celebrity smackdowns here.
----------
From: Andrew Owen
Date: Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 7:30 AM
To: AJ Buffalo <aj.buffalo@gmail.com>

Also, turtles/tortoises were ok'd via USPS about 5 years ago....Just because the 12 year old at the desk didn't know, doesn't mea it's not true.

Amazing, I sell you box turtles at half price, let you go on a payment plan for them and then when it comes to them being shipped you get impatient.

Have a great day,

andrew

Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 05:14:57 -0500

----------
From: AJ Buffalo
Date: Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 7:46 AM
To: Andrew Owen <anowen23@hotmail.com>

I dont think Ive been impatient at all. You couldnt ship Mon or Tues, I said OK as long as they go out today (Wed) as I dont like shipping anything any later in the week due to possible delays.

I would appreciate my full amount refunded to my Paypal account. You incurred the 3% fee, you did not request me adding that in. I do not ask my customers to incur that 3% surcharge since I look at it as a convenience for me to receive the money instantly and not having to wait for a check or money order in the mail.

I appreciate you handling this in professional manner.
----------
From: Andrew Owen
Date: Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 7:55 AM
To: AJ Buffalo <aj.buffalo@gmail.com>

I think you should read email threads and see what I've gone through for you...

I am not a business, this is my hobby and I was selling you turtles at half off. I waited 2 and a half weeks for full payment from you and then when it comes down to shipping...you get crabby (to put it lightly). Also, your refund was sent before I sent the first email.

Cheers

Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 07:46:49 -0500

----------
From: AJ Buffalo <aj.buffalo@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 8:12 AM
To: Andrew Owen

Im sorry you see it that way. You offered them to me at that price, I did not make any offers on them. I accepted what you stated your price was along with shipping. We agreed on the price and I got you the deposit a day earlier than I promised even. You had 2 weeks to determine your shipping fees were going to be more. Why your turning this one me I have no idea, but I did nothing wrong here.
----------
From: Andrew Owen
Date: Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 9:42 AM
To: AJ Buffalo <aj.buffalo@gmail.com>

that's fine, have fun finding 5 adult females for less than 300 shipped...all you had to do was be decent or communicate in a decent manner this morning and you would have had your turtles. You'll get far in life with your responses, I'm sure.

AJ Buffalo to Andrew

show details 9:47 AM (8 minutes ago)

Andrew how would you have felt waking up to an email demanding more money to ship animals that you had already paid for in an agreed upon amount? I have a feeling there is more to it than this, and I honestly think someone offered you more money and you regretted offering them to me at that price. Have a great day.

After this I quoted the regulations for him as well and told him I was not willing to take that chance.

Im soooo irritated this morning now.

Tatooineboy · 03-26-2008, 07:09 AM

Eek. Thats horrible. Sorry to read that, Anja.