Personally, I would not forgo UVB for any reptile without some proof of the long term effects to vitamin synthesis. As a rule, all diurnal reptiles need UVB. One could argue that a redfoot needs less but that would have to be proven, however the only science that I have seen that calls out reptiles that don't need UVB in captivity to survive are mostly nocturnal species (mainly certain snakes and lizards).

I wouldn't take the chance.

Paul

Thanks for all the input everyone!

OMG!! I am so confused now!

It's no wonder Terry!

They had survived in captivity for years before the "scientists" came along with their HELP? - producing 'lights' that we are waiting for the long-term effects.. and have already seen the near fatal short-term effects.

SO.. there is more than one way to provide the Calcium "catalyst" needed.. by redfoot tortoises.

BTW Paul.. how many have you hatched now? [ per Carl's help ]

Dudes and Dudettes, chill. LOL forget i asked.

[quote=livelycorpse]
Dudes and Dudettes, chill. LOL forget i asked.

No, you asked a good question that deserves an answer. But as has been brought out, there isn't a really clear one right now. However, I would rather err on the side of providing something (sunlight/UVB) that may not be, although probably is, needed for overall health.
RedfootNerd is growing some nice looking animals from hatchlings but there is more to the equation I think than that for long term maintenance. The redfoots very clearly seek out direct sunlight both in the wild and in captivity regardless of the temperature (unless it is extremely hot) and in my mind that is telling you something. So I provide it.
My only real issue on this thread is that I am not misquoted or misrepresented and that question is not oversimplified with blanket statements.

I agree 100% Carl.. when "keepers" do more research on the "native" environment and less research on 'forums' our beloved redfoots would fare much much better off!

It would take an ongoing "book" to provide tortoise needs.. and as you have told me.. "Much more to learn"!!! - 7/05.

For what it's worth.. the "un-edited" article [ submitted ] that appeared in the Sept. '06 issue of Reptiles magazine.. http://turtletary.com/gcarbonariabreeding.doc


In fact I spoke with a new keeper.. just the other day.. that met and spoke with Richard Cary Paull.. and commented that Richard said that he is now saying things about caring for redfoot tortoises that 30 years ago he didn't think he would ever say! Not exactly sure what that meant. But we were discussing the different UVB and DIET needs of different tortoises.. based on their native territory.

Although more are 'researching' BEFORE acquiring their tortoises.. we still hear - "I've got one.. what do I do now"? - much too often!

So Jake that was/is a good Q? that has created 'threads' 10 feet deep.. for at least 3 YEARS.. on every 'forum' out there.. and no doubt much longer!!!

Again thank you Carl for your statements about my "husbandry".. I've tried to follow your lead. And make statements based on observations and personal experience only.

My 'proven' females will be 10 years old [ raised from hatchlings ] this fall.. and overall produce like clockwork. So yes there is more to it than "blanket" statements. And I do provide an animal protein food source that claims to contain D3.

This post was last modified: 04-17-2008 06:14 AM by Redfoot NERD.

These are the corrected links: http://www.tortoisetrust.org/articles/trophab.html http://www.tortoisetrust.org/articles/tropical.html I think these may shed some light on the lighting quandrey. What I see from these 10.0 and 08. UVB bulbs are overkill and a 05.0 is probably the best option. This is my opinion. One last thing I want to say is I got my RFs 35 years ago and I would have welcomed as spirited a discussion as this then instead blind luck as far as husbandry techiniques.

This post was last modified: 04-17-2008 06:24 AM by Itort.

UVB is a pretty complicated topic- and I see a lot of people treat it very simplistically. A good site on several aspects of it is located at http://www.uvguide.co.uk.

Many reptiles seem to see UVB, but I can find no research or evidence that Red-foots or turtles in general can. (If anyone has seen research on this, please let me know.) Most tortoises avoid the sun when UV is at the highest, and the skin of the Red-foot is not consistent with species that need high levels of UVB. The critical vitamin D3 is the key element, and no one seems to have any clue what he necessary rate is for tortoises... I cannot even find a solid formula for determining calcium levels (ratios, yes- but not a recommended daily calcium intake formula.)

One interesting bit- the only commonly eaten vegetable that contains vitamin D is mushrooms- which not only contains more D per gram than meat, but is also relished by forest species. Of course, 'shrooms have almost no calcium in them.

Another interesting bit- a recent study showing no difference in growth in Red-ear Sliders with or without UVB (http://turtlesurvival.org/abstract07/3.htm) It does not really prove much for this debate, but it does suggest that a sun-loving species that eats at least a partially carnivorous diet does not depend on UVB to process calcium.

It seems like for every reason to offer UVB to Red-foots, there is a reason not to. Not only do we have the basic 'do they need it' issue, we also need to look at UVB lights- at least some of which seem to be causing problems (as per the above site).

A lot of keepers use high-output UVB lights all day, which does not simulate the changing levels of UVB in the wild very well, and a lot of tortoises avoid high UVB times of the day much of the year.

Personally- I think we tend to use UVB as a band-aid- 'it can't hurt' sort of thinking, and that the evidence of actual large-scale, long-term keepers/breeders seems to show that they don't 'need' it, but that there may nonetheless be a benefit to it, as long as it is not too intense. (I would love to know if the UVB lights themselves are the main benefit, or if it is more like people who offer UVB are offering higher levels of care overall!) I also think that the best option is to keep them outside and let them figure it out for themselves!

But this is just the 2 cents of a small-scale, short-term keeper who spends too much time on the net.

I used to have a Columbian male, but all my females are probably from Surinam or some other northern stock. My current males are both from Guyana stock. I hate mixing the types, but at least the Guyana males are closer to the females' origins than the Columbian male was.

They certainly do come out and bask on cool mornings. From what I've read these northern ones spend much of their time in more open areas than the yellowfoots that are primarily forest animals. Redfoots hang out along the gallery forests in the llanos, so they have access to both sun and shade. It's always best to give the animal a choice by giving them access to direct sunlight. The best UVB bulbs still pale in comparison with natural sunlight.

I've read a few field studies on redfoots in the llanos, and they do seek out carrion. In fact you can find them hunkered down under dead cows. I would expect that all tortoises would snack on a little beef jerky given the chance.

I've always kept the adults outside and provided calcium without D3. I raise all the babies indoors and supplement them with calcium with D3, but the juveniles always seem to do better if they get to spend time outdoors. I have never had a calcium problem and my females always lay good calicified eggs. I never supplement with dog or cat food, but they do enjoy a good romp in the Mazuri chow which probably gives them a little protein boost.

Lupita