# irregular scutes?



## tickle (Jan 26, 2013)

just want to get everyones opinion on irregular scutes.do they have one?do you prefer, dislike or think they are flawed?what causes it?does it or can it effect longevity?I bought a hatchling Russian with irregular scutes that I dealt love the way it looks.it is a cool patern along the spine.they shell is also very round and high very compact and I really like the look.I also bought a hatchling from same breeder at same time but it was normal.very flat hovel shell.I will show pics of both.I see sometimes b grade wich I quess is also irregular scuts go for cheaper then regular ones.would you choose a b grade if you didn't have the $ or save up to get a regular one?should they be less money?or considered one of a kind?and cost more money like the albinos for there uniqueness?I like the looks of the irregular Russian I have and if I were to get another I think I would try yo find a irregular because it will be different then every there one. Brings some indaviduality into the hobby.that is also why I keep flowerhorns.I didnt want the irregular scute Russian at first I am glad I got it though. sorry about the underlining


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## wellington (Jan 26, 2013)

It effects nothing that anyone knows of. Some love the split scutes, some don't. Most don't care either way. It's really just in personal taste. I have a leopard, but no slit scutes. Wouldn't bother me though if he did.


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## PALOALTO (Jan 26, 2013)

From what I learned, it doesnt hinder health or longevity, just it's appearance. Yes, they should be cheaper because of it, and the ones I have seen with "irregular scutes" are usually sold for less.


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## wellington (Jan 26, 2013)

Btw, great looking torts and love the split scutes. Be very observant of your torts. Two Russians usually won't get along in the same enclosure. As soon as you see one being bullies, you will have to separate them, or you could try a large enclosure with lots of sight barriers and at least two hides.


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## luvpetz27 (Jan 26, 2013)

I think your's are very pretty!!


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## Tortus (Jan 26, 2013)

When I was shopping for my tortoise, all the ones I saw with irregular scutes were around $10-$20 cheaper. It wasn't much. It's not like an albino or two headed that can go for thousands. 

Yours look great.


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## Jacqui (Jan 26, 2013)

I have long been fascinated with split scutes and for me they are often the reason why I will buy an animal. I just can't resist those scutes!!


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## RedfootsRule (Jan 26, 2013)

I, personally, see split or extra scutes as an imperfection...I still love the tortoises, but I would purchase a 13-scute over a 21-scute basically .
I actually wonder how it does affect growth...I could get a picture tomorrow, but I'm noticing something very odd with one of my 8-inch red foots. It was the first I had with split-scutes, 4 years ago, (except now I've had dozens of split-scutes). She has 16 scutes. On the left back of the shell, there is one tiny split scute. The rest of the shell is absolutely, completely smooth, but that one scute is growing pyramided! Its almost like the growth of the other scutes is "constricting" the growth of this little one, and making it grow abnormally...But thats not how pyramiding works. I can't fathom a reason why its happening, but it is only the one scute....
As for what causes it, 99% of the time it is to warm of temperatures. Resulting from it, it is actually a good indicator the tortoise will be a female. Its not definite, but its likely.
They will certainly never be worth more then regular tortoises. The beautiful ones such as radiatas, the split-scutes or deformed torts are worth half as much as regular tortoises.


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## Jacqui (Jan 26, 2013)

RedfootsRule said:


> They will certainly never be worth more then regular tortoises.



Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, for me being a split scute is a selling point. If I am offered a split scute or a "normal", I will be buying the split without any question. So I guess that means for some of us, split scutes have more value and as such are indeed worth more.


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## RedfootsRule (Jan 26, 2013)

Jacqui said:


> RedfootsRule said:
> 
> 
> > They will certainly never be worth more then regular tortoises.
> ...



True, but I would venture to say the majority prefer a tortoise without imperfections. I really base it off the fact that any split-scute animals I see for sale are referred to as "B-grade", "imperfect" and usually sold for much less. I have no quarrel with those that find beauty in it; you like what you like.
If you really feel that way, I get about 5 split-scute hatchlings a year. Interested ?


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## Jacqui (Jan 26, 2013)

RedfootsRule said:


> If you really feel that way, I get about 5 split-scute hatchlings a year. Interested ?



When you get some show me pictures. I am always open for more split scutes, but right now it's more to the point of just how they end up patterned out. .


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## RedfootsRule (Jan 26, 2013)

You would've loved Zig-Zag, I bet .




This is a picture I got a few months later from the lady I sold it to, along with its sibling . First hatchling I ever produced with split-scutes like this, so interesting....


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## jwang1983 (Jan 26, 2013)

tickle said:


> just want to get everyones opinion on irregular scutes.do they have one?do you prefer, dislike or think they are flawed?what causes it?does it or can it effect longevity?I bought a hatchling Russian with irregular scutes that I dealt love the way it looks.it is a cool patern along the spine.they shell is also very round and high very compact and I really like the look.I also bought a hatchling from same breeder at same time but it was normal.very flat hovel shell.I will show pics of both.I see sometimes b grade wich I quess is also irregular scuts go for cheaper then regular ones.would you choose a b grade if you didn't have the $ or save up to get a regular one?should they be less money?or considered one of a kind?and cost more money like the albinos for there uniqueness?I like the looks of the irregular Russian I have and if I were to get another I think I would try yo find a irregular because it will be different then every there one. Brings some indaviduality into the hobby.that is also why I keep flowerhorns.I didnt want the irregular scute Russian at first I am glad I got it though. sorry about the underlining



as soon as your tortoises are healthy, that is nothing


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## jaizei (Jan 26, 2013)

In the past, I viewed them as imperfect. But I have come to appreciate the 'zippered' pattern some exhibit.


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## Baoh (Jan 26, 2013)

I generally discount split scute animals, but it depends on the situation. If they are hatchlings, I tend to discount them as my perfect animal stock level heavily depletes. I do not discount split scute adult female breeders at all. I will discount split scute adult male breeders every time.

Another exception to this is if the split scuts are bilaterally symmetric. I might not discount animals that have a perfectly symmetrical pair of scutes or if there is, say, an extra (but perfectly formed) vertebral scute. That is, of course, if they are selling quickly. If a prospective customer asks for a discount on such animals, I will reduce the price slightly as I would for typical split scutes. I tend not to provide the discount unprompted on these types, though, because of the symmetry and the general human tendency to prefer symmetry.

Split scutes are developmental cosmetic defects and I do not think my customers should have to pay full price for aesthetic compromises. Even if I could get away with charging them equal prices as I would for flawless animals, and I could, I will not.




jaizei said:


> In the past, I viewed them as imperfect. But I have come to appreciate the 'zippered' pattern some exhibit.



That is probably my least favorite conformation. I discount such hatchlings most heavily. One of my female breeders has this, which is how I acquired her for a very low price.

Luckily for me, only a tiny fraction of all of my hatchlings come out with any scute irregularities.


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## bigred (Jan 26, 2013)

Here is one and one of my elongated has a split scute as well. As far as these 2 animals, I would not discount the price but I know in general they are discounted even though they are healthy as normal animals


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## GBtortoises (Jan 27, 2013)

Split and multiple scutes do not in any way effect the health or longevity of the tortoise or turtle. The believe in what causes them is always open for debate. Most breeders believe that it occurs due to higher than normal incubation temperatures. Some believe that it is due because of drier than normal conditions during incubation. Some believe that it is genetic or a combination of genetics and incubation temperatures. Split and multiple scutes can be seen in wild caught tortoises and turtles also.


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## tickle (Jan 27, 2013)

RedfootsRule said:


> You would've loved Zig-Zag, I bet .
> 
> 
> This is a picture I got a few months later from the lady I sold it to, along with its sibling . First hatchling I ever produced with split-scutes like this, so interesting....



I love zig sag.I like that they are cheaper.lol


I guess I just prefer to have something different.I see we like to talk about this topic. 2 pages in less then a day maybe it should be stickied.can someone post pics of extra scuts or any other irregularity


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## Edna (Jan 27, 2013)

RedfootsRule said:


> You would've loved Zig-Zag, I bet .
> 
> 
> This is a picture I got a few months later from the lady I sold it to, along with its sibling . First hatchling I ever produced with split-scutes like this, so interesting....



That is a cool pattern, Peter. I would love to see this one when it is grown, just to see how those almost-split or barely-split scutes develop.


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## RedfootsRule (Jan 27, 2013)

Edna said:


> RedfootsRule said:
> 
> 
> > You would've loved Zig-Zag, I bet .
> ...



Yeah, the lady that I sold him to still sends me pictures pretty often. She emails me a lot about care, so I should always be able to get pictures. Hopefully .
The part that was so interesting was that you couldn't say whether they were split or not. The one all the way in the front wasn't, and the other two almost looked like they might eventually? But they weren't fully separated. Its going to be interesting to see what exactly happens.


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## Tortoise (Jan 27, 2013)

I like the irregular scutes, I had a lovely Hermanns baby with missing scutes-he had 11. I named him Jigsaw but sadly he died. I picked him over normal as I like different -perhaps my rebellious streak!
(I like odd plants too-cacti etc,unique things appeal to me)
I know the breeder I buy from will incubate for females(so higher incubation temps) so whether this is due to that or just coincidental I will never know.
I would get irregular scuted tortoises again for sure if I had an opportunity.
Love the photos posted here-very pretty.


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## tickle (Jan 27, 2013)

Does a irregular scuted male or female pass the trait to offspring?


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## Zabbi0 (Jan 31, 2013)

bigred said:


> Here is one and one of my elongated has a split scute as well. As far as these 2 animals, I would not discount the price but I know in general they are discounted even though they are healthy as normal animals



What a beauty!!! It even looked like there's 3 hearts in her shell


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