# Baby Sulcata lethargic and not eating



## snubbull (Dec 9, 2020)

Hello, I apologize for my first post being on the down side, but I don't know what to do.

I got a baby sulcata in about June, who is now about 8-11 months old? He (currently do not know the sex, but their name is Tucker so for consistency's sake I will refer to them as he) was healthy and fine up until about September, when I started noticing little bumps on his neck and armpit. About a month later they peeled, leaving a layer of skin kind of just flap off of him. Concerned, I made an appointment to see the vet, but couldn't get in until mid November. She said her only concerns were his plastron being slightly soft for his age, and she prescribed him Silver Sulfadiazine for the skin. She pulled off the skin flaps, saying they could have been caused by bacteria or (if I recall correctly) parasites, but that the medication should help, which it did seem to do. Flashback about a week from today, I started noticing he wasn't moving much, rubbing his eyes a lot, and barely ate. He already had a bad appetite as it was, refusing to eat dandelions, lawn grass, greens, etc except for yellow squash for the past couple of months despite all I tried to do to get him to eat better (he did eat Mustard greens and some other greens, but not nearly as much as he should). About four days ago I noticed it was getting worse, because he didn't move at all from the spot he was sleeping on. He previously had a ten gallon acrylic tank, so I did a lot of research during that day and the prior ones wondering if it was perhaps his heating and a UVB issue. The day after, now about three days ago, I built him a wooden enclosure and bought better bulbs. His heat is now more sufficient, with a 75 degree low on one side and 102 high basking side, in addition to the UVB rod light I bought. I also water the substrate every other day and mist it three times a day. However, he is doing even worse. He hasn't eaten at all for about a week now (he did eat a few bites of yellow squash yetserday), and is visibly getting weaker. I soak him about fifteen minutes a day for the past five days hoping to get him to eat more, but he simply will not, and does not move an inch in his terrarium or even open his eyes unless he is being soaked.

He has another appointment in two days, but I'm extremely worried and wonder if there is anything I can do to aid him until his visit. My main suspicsions are that he is either vitamin deficient, having a reaction to the medication, a humidity issue, or has an infection of some sort. I'm still confused though, because at his intial visit the doc showed no concern, unless he could have gotten this sick within a matter of about three weeks. Any advice is greatly appreciated, as I am very worried for my lil guy (or gal)


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## Pastel Tortie (Dec 9, 2020)

I'm sorry you're having to go through all this. Have the yellow bumps (or spots or scabs) returned? Do you have any pictures?

Where did you get your little one from?

@mastershake


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## Tom (Dec 9, 2020)

Where did you get the baby? There has been a contagious bacteria disease going around from some sellers.

@mastershake 
@Pastel Tortie


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## snubbull (Dec 9, 2020)

Pastel Tortie said:


> I'm sorry you're having to go through all this. Have the yellow bumps (or spots or scabs) returned? Do you have any pictures?
> 
> Where did you get your little one from?
> 
> @mastershake




The bumps seem to have disappeared, and I got him from a local pet store. I'm extremely against buying from pet stores because I do not support how they obtain most of their pets, but this one obtained theirs from local breeders, so I found it to be suitable. The white spot on his head is from the medication cream, the discoloration on his neck is where the skin peeled off.


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## snubbull (Dec 9, 2020)

Tom said:


> Where did you get the baby? There has been a contagious bacteria disease going around from some sellers.
> 
> @mastershake
> @Pastel Tortie


 

I got him from a local pet store (Arroyo Grande, CA) that receive their animals from local breeders.


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## Pastel Tortie (Dec 9, 2020)

snubbull said:


> The bumps seem to have disappeared, and I got him from a local pet store. I'm extremely against buying from pet stores because I do not support how they obtain most of their pets, but this one obtained theirs from local breeders, so I found it to be suitable. The white spot on his head is from the medication cream, the discoloration on his neck is where the skin peeled off.


So these are current pictures?


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## snubbull (Dec 9, 2020)

Pastel Tortie said:


> So these are current pictures?


 
Yes, I just took these. He's been in the same position for about an hour now. I soaked him to see if he would eat, which he didn't, but he at least opened his eyes and walked around in the water a bit. Once out, though, he immediately sprawled out and went back to sleep.


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## Pastel Tortie (Dec 9, 2020)

There's a subforum about the yellow bumps in the Tortoise Health section. 




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Yellow Bumps on Tortoises







tortoiseforum.org




We can't say for certain if your little one has the same thing or not, but that part sounds familiar. You might want to take a look in the subforum and see if any of the pictures and descriptions are consistent with the bumps you noticed before.


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## snubbull (Dec 9, 2020)

Pastel Tortie said:


> There's a subforum about the yellow bumps in the Tortoise Health section.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thank you, I looked on the forum, but the bumps seem to be a little too pale in color. His bumps were more his skin color, and they eventually peeled. It sounds similar to what people have been experiencing, but I'm not sure if that's exactly what it is.


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## Pastel Tortie (Dec 9, 2020)

@snubbull A number of forum members have had decent results with carrot baby food / pedialyte soaks for ill tortoises that aren't eating.




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Need Help with Gary the baby Sulcata Tortoise


Hello- I need some help. Gary our “6-week-old?” Sulcata Tortoise is not eating well and is moving around less and less each day. How much should he be eating for his size/ age? When should I get a vet involved? I am looking for advice or things I should change. Location: Right outside of...




tortoiseforum.org


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## snubbull (Dec 9, 2020)

Pastel Tortie said:


> @snubbull A number of forum members have had decent results with carrot baby food / pedialyte soaks for ill tortoises that aren't eating.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I'll definitely look into that, thank you so much!


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## Chefdenoel10 (Dec 9, 2020)

snubbull said:


> I'll definitely look into that, thank you so much!



yes listen to Pastel Tortie...
Baby carrot food (the liquid kind) and UNFLAVORED pedialite. I have done this before and they perk right up. It has electrolytes in it and is a vitamin booster.
Also for eating maybe try the “Mazuri LS “
Sold in pet stores. Try wetting it to make it mush and see if he will eat that. You only need a small bag.. it will last a lifetime!
Or maybe try colorful foods? 
you said he likes the “yellow” squash?
So try something with vibrant colors?
Cut up small though... he is just a baby.
I am sending you prayers ???
Luck and hugs...
And finally,
Don’t get ANY shots from the vet until you check on here first! 
vets only give shots because they don’t know what else to do.
Most of the time the cure involves :
Heating bulbs
Humidity
Your substrate (the stuff he walks on)
And long soaks....
Good luck and I am with you in spirit!! ?
Keep us posted!!!!


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## mastershake (Dec 9, 2020)

the bumps can be more skin color they are not always light sometimes yellow and crusty sometimes more light or white. when they fall off that does not mean the bacteria is gone its a systemic bacteria and can be in the blood, bones, muscle, cartilage, etc. this is the biggest problem with this.


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## snubbull (Dec 10, 2020)

Chefdenoel10 said:


> yes listen to Pastel Tortie...
> Baby carrot food (the liquid kind) and UNFLAVORED pedialite. I have done this before and they perk right up. It has electrolytes in it and is a vitamin booster.
> Also for eating maybe try the “Mazuri LS “
> Sold in pet stores. Try wetting it to make it mush and see if he will eat that. You only need a small bag.. it will last a lifetime!
> ...



thank you, this has been very helpful! I'll update what the veterinarian says tomorrow


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## snubbull (Dec 10, 2020)

mastershake said:


> the bumps can be more skin color they are not always light sometimes yellow and crusty sometimes more light or white. when they fall off that does not mean the bacteria is gone its a systemic bacteria and can be in the blood, bones, muscle, cartilage, etc. this is the biggest problem with this.



I see, if the veterinarian recommends it, would getting blood work done be a good idea?


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## snubbull (Dec 11, 2020)

Hi, 

So my last post was regarding my tortoise Tucker's health, and today at his visit the veterinarian told me that he is in the late stages of metabolic bone disease. She said that it looks unlikely that he will get much better or turn around easily, but prescribed him calcium injections and advised us to (carefully, of course, considering how small he is) syringe feed him and keep him under his UVB as much as possible, or in the sun if possible. With that said, she still doesn't think he will get entirely back to himself. Are there any suggestions as to nursing him hopefully to better health, or anything I can do to make him as comfortable as possible?  

Thank you in advanced.


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## Toddrickfl1 (Dec 11, 2020)

snubbull said:


> Hi,
> 
> So my last post was regarding my tortoise Tucker's health, and today at his visit the veterinarian told me that he is in the late stages of metabolic bone disease. She said that it looks unlikely that he will get much better or turn around easily, but prescribed him calcium injections and advised us to (carefully, of course, considering how small he is) syringe feed him and keep him under his UVB as much as possible, or in the sun if possible. With that said, she still doesn't think he will get entirely back to himself. Are there any suggestions as to nursing him hopefully to better health, or anything I can do to make him as comfortable as possible?
> 
> Thank you in advanced.


How old is the Sulcata? You said baby in the post title but MBD takes a long time to develop. If your tortoise is less than 6 months old its not MBD. Also calcium injections are not good. That's a good sign the VET you went to didn't know what they're doing. Can you post pics of the tortoise?


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## snubbull (Dec 11, 2020)

Toddrickfl1 said:


> How old is the Sulcata? You said baby in the post title but MBD takes a long time to develop. If your tortoise is less than 6 months old its not MBD. Also calcium injections are not good. That's a good sign the VET you went to didn't know what they're doing.



Well he's still about only 3.5-4 inches, so not old, but I have had him since June, so older that 6 months for sure.


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## Toddrickfl1 (Dec 11, 2020)

snubbull said:


> Well he's still about only 3.5-4 inches, so not old, but I have had him since June, so older that 6 months for sure.


Where did you get the tortoise? There has been a pretty bad disease going around in young Sulcatas lately from a few distributors. Has your tortoise had any darker/yellow patches on it's skin at any time since you've had it?


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## snubbull (Dec 11, 2020)

Toddrickfl1 said:


> Where did you get the tortoise? There has been a pretty bad disease going around in young Sulcatas lately from a few distributors. Has your tortoise had any darker/yellow patches on it's skin at any time since you've had it?



If you check my last (it's my only one) post, I describe his condition and a couple of other people tell me he may have the same yellow spots going around, which I'm unsure if he has as well. He initially went in for peeling skin, which started as tiny bumps; they're all gone with the exception of one. I got him from a local pet store (Arroyo Grande, CA) who receive their reptiles from local breeders.


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## Toddrickfl1 (Dec 11, 2020)

snubbull said:


> If you check my last (it's my only one) post, I describe his condition and a couple of other people tell me he may have the same yellow spots going around, which I'm unsure if he has as well. He initially went in for peeling skin, which started as tiny bumps; they're all gone with the exception of one. I got him from a local pet store (Arroyo Grande, CA) who receive their reptiles from local breeders.


That would be my guess then. Sorry your having to deal with this. Good luck


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## KarenSoCal (Dec 12, 2020)

I don't understand how the vet said MBD. We are talking about the baby pictured in post # 4, correct?
First, I think the tortoise is too young to be showing signs of MBD, and certainly not "late stages".

How did she diagnose this? Did she take x-rays of him? Did she do blood work that included a calcium level that was extremely low?

I agree with toddrickfl1...that vet knows nothing about torts. 

I'm tagging 2 members who can shed light on this. In the meantime, I would not get any shots, and I would be searching for an exotics vet.

@zovick 
@GMDVM


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## snubbull (Dec 12, 2020)

KarenSoCal said:


> I don't understand how the vet said MBD. We are talking about the baby pictured in post # 4, correct?
> First, I think the tortoise is too young to be showing signs of MBD, and certainly not "late stages".
> 
> How did she diagnose this? Did she take x-rays of him? Did she do blood work that included a calcium level that was extremely low?
> ...



I'm at such a loss as to what I should be doing.. in the meantime I'm trying to make sure he gets more sun exposure and is basking in the heat and the uvb enough, and the vet advised me to try to syringe feed him (attempted today but unsuccessful and I certainly didn't want to force and potentially injure him). She said he could be older than baby age simply because he isn't growing due to the mbd she diagnosed him with. She said she diagnosed him by shining a light onto his plastron, which exposed his bones and organs, in addition to just his physical condition (very weak limbs, no movement throughout the day, anorexia, etc). She gave him a calcium shot today and has me scheduled for another next week.. I just dont know what to do, and I just want my lil guy to get better


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## KarenSoCal (Dec 12, 2020)

I look forward to whatever we're told by the members I tagged.


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## Toddrickfl1 (Dec 12, 2020)

snubbull said:


> I'm at such a loss as to what I should be doing.. in the meantime I'm trying to make sure he gets more sun exposure and is basking in the heat and the uvb enough, and the vet advised me to try to syringe feed him (attempted today but unsuccessful and I certainly didn't want to force and potentially injure him). She said he could be older than baby age simply because he isn't growing due to the mbd she diagnosed him with. She said she diagnosed him by shining a light onto his plastron, which exposed his bones and organs, in addition to just his physical condition (very weak limbs, no movement throughout the day, anorexia, etc). She gave him a calcium shot today and has me scheduled for another next week.. I just dont know what to do, and I just want my lil guy to get better


Are you doing baby food soaks? I would do baby food soaks several times a day. Don't go back to that VET they have no idea what they're doing.


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## Maggie3fan (Dec 12, 2020)

I agree with *Toddrickfl1 * baby food soaks are the way to go. I was out of town for a couple of weeks and when I got home there were 3 box turtles with swollen closed eyes. So I started soaking in Gerber strained carrots. It took about a week for the first turtle to start recovery. All 3 turtles are now eating drinking and more active. I am not an expert but I would only soak once a day with the babyfood, and be sure to cut up his food into mouth sized pieces, making them easier to eat


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## zovick (Dec 12, 2020)

KarenSoCal said:


> I look forward to whatever we're told by the members I tagged.


I am afraid I cannot add a lot to this discussion that hasn't already been suggested. I do agree with Toddrickfl1 that you should find a different vet, though. Try to find an exotics vet in your area and go there.


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## snubbull (Dec 12, 2020)

maggie3fan said:


> I agree with *Toddrickfl1 * baby food soaks are the way to go. I was out of town for a couple of weeks and when I got home there were 3 box turtles with swollen closed eyes. So I started soaking in Gerber strained carrots. It took about a week for the first turtle to start recovery. All 3 turtles are now eating drinking and more active. I am not an expert but I would only soak once a day with the babyfood, and be sure to cut up his food into mouth sized pieces, making them easier to eat



I'll try soaking him soon, then. Would you recommend adding pedialite to the baby food water mixture?


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## snubbull (Dec 12, 2020)

Toddrickfl1 said:


> Are you doing baby food soaks? I would do baby food soaks several times a day. Don't go back to that VET they have no idea what they're doing.



I have yet to actually soak him with baby food; I tried to syringe feed it to him as directed by the vet to no avail. I will soak him soon and see how that goes. I'm wondering if adding pedialite would help a bit too?


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## snubbull (Dec 12, 2020)

My only concern with the soaks is that the vet told me that Tucker should not be soaked any more for now, as it will make him softer than he already is. Should I still do it regardless?


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## Toddrickfl1 (Dec 12, 2020)

snubbull said:


> My only concern with the soaks is that the vet told me that Tucker should not be soaked any more for now, as it will make him softer than he already is. Should I still do it regardless?


Yes absolutely, disregard everything you heard at that VET.


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## KarenSoCal (Dec 12, 2020)

snubbull said:


> My only concern with the soaks is that the vet told me that Tucker should not be soaked any more for now, as it will make him softer than he already is. Should I still do it regardless?



The baby food soaks are more for nutrition than hydration, in the hope that he will sip some of it while soaking.

The formula is not written in stone, but keepers have had success with this:
Take water and pedialyte and mix 50/50. Then take strained or pureed baby food carrots, and mix it 50/50 with the water & pedialyte solution. Make it warm and soak him 45 min to an hour. Keep the solution warm the whole time. Do this daily.

Did you mention carrot soaks to the vet? If so, did she know what you were talking about? My guess is no.


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## snubbull (Dec 12, 2020)

KarenSoCal said:


> The baby food soaks are more for nutrition than hydration, in the hope that he will sip some of it while soaking.
> 
> The formula is not written in stone, but keepers have had success with this:
> Take water and pedialyte and mix 50/50. Then take strained or pureed baby food carrots, and mix it 50/50 with the water & pedialyte solution. Make it warm and soak him 45 min to an hour. Keep the solution warm the whole time. Do this daily.
> ...



I mentioned it, but she said that syringe feeding him baby food could help, but that soaking may be too much for him at this point.


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## KarenSoCal (Dec 12, 2020)

snubbull said:


> I mentioned it, but she said that syringe feeding him baby food could help, but that soaking may be too much for him at this point.


The danger with syringe feeding is that he has some go into the lungs, causing aspiration pneumonia. You could try putting a drop of the mixture into the very front of his mouth, giving him plenty of time to swallow it before the next drop.

Hopefully he won't spit it out. ?


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## Maggie3fan (Dec 12, 2020)

Toddrickfl1 said:


> Yes absolutely, disregard everything you heard at that VET.


I so agree!!! I soaked Bob every day and when he got too big for any of my ideas, I dug a hole in the ground in his pen, and cemented the bottom of the hole. He then started to soak himself. I'd open his doggie door and he would head straight for that hole, he'd walk in and walk right under the water, and I called it a game of submarine. And Bob, at 100 or so lbs would stay on the bottom, water was mid thigh to me, he'd say under for 15 minutes or so. It made me freakin nuts, I always thought he was drowning. 
Your answer is yes, soak the heck outa that tortoise


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## zovick (Dec 12, 2020)

snubbull said:


> I mentioned it, but she said that syringe feeding him baby food could help, but that soaking may be too much for him at this point.


Wrong! Soaking is good for the tortoise right now. Just make sure the water, pedialyte, and baby food mixture is warm and not too deep for the tortoise so he can easily keep his nose above the surface to breathe..


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## Maggie3fan (Dec 12, 2020)

I don't have a medical license, most of the stuff I know I learned from my own experience, from my sister's experience BEFORE THE INTERNET, but part of my experience, even with some pretty bad experience's with them, Veterinarians have gone the extra mile for that "Exotic" shingle. It makes me uncomfortable to contradict any professional advice, especially on such a public forum. But, reptile medicine is still in it's infancy. Thanks to some members of TFO and being able to surf the 'net, we were/are on the forefront of all that is happening. Pyramiding, yellow spots, dog vs tortoise and on and on and freakin on...all those posts we have all answered time after time, year after year. Before the 'net when we had sick turtles with the closed swollen eyes and lethargy, I don't know how Y came up with what is a Vitamin A soak. Speaking of Vitamin A, how many of us have had to say...NO Vt A injections. So, I think where I'm going with this is, Veterinary medicine is still new enuf that each Vet themselves is kinda stymied as was to do, or so it seems to me, and I am not quite sure what is the correct thing for TFO as a whole in handling trashing, contradicting, and otherwise being ugly to a professional, publicly...lol


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## snubbull (Dec 12, 2020)

I really appreciate all the help and feedback, and it is very helpful to have so many kind people sharing their thoughts and advice. I just tried to soak him with baby carrot food and pedialyte (50/50 ped. to water, 50/50 baby food to water mixture), but that didn't seem to do anything. He just laid down and kept his head underwater, totally unresponsive. If I were to try and position him more comfortably, he'd just collapse again. Is this normal for soaking an ill tort?


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## Maggie3fan (Dec 12, 2020)

snubbull said:


> My only concern with the soaks is that the vet told me that Tucker should not be soaked any more for now, as it will make him softer than he already is. Should I still do it regardless?


Yes you should do it...period. Soaking will not cause a plastron to soften. There must be some softness to allow for new growth I would think...but, I will out and out contradict this particular Vet. The tortoise obviously has something wrong.


snubbull said:


> I really appreciate all the help and feedback, and it is very helpful to have so many kind people sharing their thoughts and advice. I just tried to soak him with baby carrot food and pedialyte (50/50 ped. to water, 50/50 baby food to water mixture), but that didn't seem to do anything. He just laid down and kept his head underwater, totally unresponsive. If I were to try and position him more comfortably, he'd just collapse again. Is this normal for soaking an ill tort?


They stretch out their necks and put their heads underwater for an extended period of time to drink. . Didn't you read any of the previous comments/\? He's just doing what comes naturally


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## ritalutzer (Dec 12, 2020)

I also have a sulcata young tortoise about 8-9 Mos old who all of a sudden stopped eating too. Until this he was a great eater....the Mazuri food he loved along with lettuce, and just about everything I gave him....about a week ago he just stopped eating . A friend who works at the Phoenix Hepetological told me to put him in warm water every day instead of every few days and it seems to have helped...today he ate much better and so maybe your baby tortoise will do better soon too.


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## snubbull (Dec 13, 2020)

Unfortunate update

woke up to Tucker totally stiff and lifeless, not even soaking him did anything; im pretty sure he's dead. I want to wait at least 24 hours before deciding, but im fairly certain he is gone..


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## susaniddon (Dec 13, 2020)

what sad news, so sorry for your loss.


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## snubbull (Dec 13, 2020)

susaniddon said:


> what sad news, so sorry for your loss.



thank you  I just hope he's having fun with all the other good torties up there


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## Toddrickfl1 (Dec 13, 2020)

I'm so sorry for loss. Don't let it discourage you. You did everything you could.


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## Maggie3fan (Dec 13, 2020)

Oh holy crap. I am so sorry, really. I don't think any of us thought he was as bad as it looks like he was. I know I didn't. Stuff like this makes it hard to give advice, really.


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## Quixx66 (Dec 13, 2020)

snubbull said:


> Unfortunate update
> 
> woke up to Tucker totally stiff and lifeless, not even soaking him did anything; im pretty sure he's dead. I want to wait at least 24 hours before deciding, but im fairly certain he is gone..


I’m so sorry for your loss.


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## KarenSoCal (Dec 13, 2020)

I'm so very sorry. Sometimes this happens, and there was nothing you could have done to save it.

There's a good chance this baby was not started correctly. I would suggest that next time, you get one directly from a breeder on this forum, and avoid the heartache you're suffering now.


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## Mrs.Jennifer (Dec 14, 2020)

snubbull said:


> Unfortunate update
> 
> woke up to Tucker totally stiff and lifeless, not even soaking him did anything; im pretty sure he's dead. I want to wait at least 24 hours before deciding, but im fairly certain he is gone..


I too am sorry for your loss.


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## mastershake (Dec 14, 2020)

I'm so sorry. I would have responded sooner the site has not been sending me notifications. this imo was not mbd not at that stage and size. I hate to say it was related to the bumps but most likely was. and if so was not your fault. again I'm so sorry for your loss.


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