# Bruising/bleeding under shell?



## Jami (Jun 24, 2014)

Hi there,

I've posted this a few times on the Hermann's forum and no one has ever really seen it - except maybe 1 time and it rectified itself. But I'm wondering if anyone else has any ideas? It does not seem to be septicemia. The pics were taken when HermIt was 8-9 weeks old. He didn't come to me like this. I've been told heating, food, substrate, etc all good. He's 10 -11 weeks old now. He hasn't been eating much the last few days. He's been pretty lethargic. Thanks for looking....


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## yillt (Jun 24, 2014)

Hi. I don't know what this is but I know that there is another post on the forum about this. I will try and find it for you. I hope Hermit gets better soon. Good luck.


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## ascott (Jun 25, 2014)

http://www.tortoiseforum.org/attachments/014-jpg.81594/

Here is a pic you posted on June 9---in this pic you can see he already had this coloration on the growth line areas....so, I wonder if it is not a thing to yet panic about? 

What is the enclosure like? Substrate, temps for cold, middle and basking spot? Night temp? Soakings? (I would not add calcium to the soaks, it is bitter and may cause the tort to not take in as much water as he would otherwise)....What type of items are in the enclosure?


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## Yourlocalpoet (Jun 25, 2014)

I don't know what it is and I hope you're tortoise is okay and it remedies itself, however if this was on my tortoise I would go to the vet.


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## Jami (Jun 25, 2014)

yillt said:


> Hi. I don't know what this is but I know that there is another post on the forum about this. I will try and find it for you. I hope Hermit gets better soon. Good luck.


Thank you - I posted about it on another forum...


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## tortadise (Jun 25, 2014)

So no improvement thus far? That's not good. I am going to go against my initial septicemia as the tortoise is still alive. May need to consult a vet and do some cultures. Will be hard since he's a little bugger. I would recommend a vet for sure so they can prescribe a general antibiotic. This may be a very nasty infection internally. What substrate or mulch are you using? Did you take anything from the garden and place it in the enclosure at all?


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## Jami (Jun 25, 2014)

ascott said:


> http://www.tortoiseforum.org/attachments/014-jpg.81594/
> 
> Here is a pic you posted on June 9---in this pic you can see he already had this coloration on the growth line areas....so, I wonder if it is not a thing to yet panic about?
> 
> What is the enclosure like? Substrate, temps for cold, middle and basking spot? Night temp? Soakings? (I would not add calcium to the soaks, it is bitter and may cause the tort to not take in as much water as he would otherwise)....What type of items are in the enclosure?


Hi there,

Thanks. Unfortunately, the tort in that pic isn't mine, though I did post pics of him before. I'm hoping that it's going to remedy itself too.

He's on coco coir that I keep pretty damp, with his hut which is a Keurig box, he loves it, he has grown a little so he has 2 terra cotta saucers : 1 for food and 1 with water. He has some spider plants and a small tile. He has a cuttle bone he doesn't touch except to walk over. He likes to sleep on the warm side. His temps are 85-90 on 1 side and 75-80 on other. He has a vapor mercury lamp. He was a good eater: dandelions, grasses, spring mix, hosta, etc. his night temp stays about 70. He soaks daily, as he seems to really like it. I just changed his enclosure - adding the plants and changing out bowls that we're getting too small for his terra cotta. Maybe I freaked him out?

He's doing better this morning. No more calcium in the water. That was a 1 time thing...mistake....

Thanks for responding,
Jami


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## Jami (Jun 25, 2014)

Yourlocalpoet said:


> I don't know what it is and I hope you're tortoise is okay and it remedies itself, however if this was on my tortoise I would go to the vet.


Thanks!! Reptile vet very far away....


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## Jami (Jun 25, 2014)

tortadise said:


> So no improvement thus far? That's not good. I am going to go against my initial septicemia as the tortoise is still alive. May need to consult a vet and do some cultures. Will be hard since he's a little bugger. I would recommend a vet for sure so they can prescribe a general antibiotic. This may be a very nasty infection internally. What substrate or mulch are you using? Did you take anything from the garden and place it in the enclosure at all?


Hi - he was doing better, and may be today too. He was much better this morning. He's not really changing except he's growing. He's on coco coir. Vets pretty far away but I will call them...thanks.


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## Jami (Jun 25, 2014)

tortadise said:


> So no improvement thus far? That's not good. I am going to go against my initial septicemia as the tortoise is still alive. May need to consult a vet and do some cultures. Will be hard since he's a little bugger. I would recommend a vet for sure so they can prescribe a general antibiotic. This may be a very nasty infection internally. What substrate or mulch are you using? Did you take anything from the garden and place it in the enclosure at all?


Hi again. I finally found a different vet that specializes in reptiles & birds. I'm going to get him in tomorrow if I can. People are saying septicemia and I guess I just need to get him to the vet ASAP. I hope she will be able to help him. I feel horrible that I didn't take him in sooner. I'm not sure he's been right since I first got him but my care didn't help. Thanks for listening.


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## Yvonne G (Jun 25, 2014)

Please don't allow the vet to give the tortoise a vitamin shot (A,D,E). It is very easy to get vitamins into the tortoise without injecting them. And it's difficult to get the correct dosage into a very small tortoise.


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## tortadise (Jun 25, 2014)

Yvonne G said:


> Please don't all the vet to give the tortoise a vitamin shot (A,D,E). It is very easy to get vitamins into the tortoise without injecting them. And it's difficult to get the correct dosage into a very small tortoise.


Yes very good information here. Thanks for bringing that up Yvonne.


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## Jami (Jun 25, 2014)

Yvonne G said:


> Please don't allow the vet to give the tortoise a vitamin shot (A,D,E). It is very easy to get vitamins into the tortoise without injecting them. And it's difficult to get the correct dosage into a very small tortoise.


Ok. Thank you. I will ask for no shots and how to get what he needs into him w/o that. Do you have suggestions? I've heard about the carrot baths but nothing else. He will not eat much when the reptivite is on his food. I desperately hope I've not waited too long.


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## Jami (Jun 25, 2014)

tortadise said:


> Yes very good information here. Thanks for bringing that up Yvonne.


Hi - could you tell me if I should let HermIt have any shots? Antibiotic shot or stay away from that as well?


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## tortadise (Jun 25, 2014)

Well a good general antibiotic shouldn't hurt anything. I'd stead away from baytril though if they try to use it. Ceftadizine is a good general antibiotic. He's soooo small though may be very tough to dose.


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## dmmj (Jun 25, 2014)

Antibiotic is ok, the vit. shot is the one to avoid, no matter what the vet says, If he is still drinking you can simply put some bird vitamins in his water when he soaks, much safer that way IMHO.


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## Jami (Jun 25, 2014)

tortadise said:


> Well a good general antibiotic shouldn't hurt anything. I'd stead away from baytril though if they try to use it. Ceftadizine is a good general antibiotic. He's soooo small though may be very tough to dose.


Thank you! I'll try not to get batril



dmmj said:


> Antibiotic is ok, the vit. shot is the one to avoid, no matter what the vet says, If he is still drinking you can simply put some bird vitamins in his water when he soaks, much safer that way IMHO.


Ok. Thanks. He still drinks- a lot. Thank you so much!



tortadise said:


> Well a good general antibiotic shouldn't hurt anything. I'd stead away from baytril though if they try to use it. Ceftadizine is a good general antibiotic. He's soooo small though may be very tough to dose.


Another question...do all the tort antibiotic get administered by shots? He's so tiny I'm not sure I could do it.


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## dmmj (Jun 25, 2014)

They have shot and nose drop antibiotics, at that size they will prob. do nose drops, but can't say for sure.


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## Jami (Jun 25, 2014)

dmmj said:


> They have shot and nose drop antibiotics, at that size they will prob. do nose drops, but can't say for sure.


Thanks. I'd think nose drops would be easier for him.


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## ascott (Jun 25, 2014)

> I just changed his enclosure - adding the plants and changing out bowls that we're getting too small for his terra cotta. Maybe I freaked him out?



I just don't see where I would be alarmed ....I mean, the tortoise was eating and business as usual until around the time you made changes to his enclosure right? On top of the fact that he had not been nearly settled in yet before those additional changes made???? I am not feeling a vet visit....AGAIN, this is just my opinion.


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## Jami (Jun 26, 2014)

ascott said:


> I just don't see where I would be alarmed ....I mean, the tortoise was eating and business as usual until around the time you made changes to his enclosure right? On top of the fact that he had not been nearly settled in yet before those additional changes made???? I am not feeling a vet visit....AGAIN, this is just my opinion.


Hi there. Thanks for your input. I think I need to take him because of the bleeding and just see what it is and what to do. If he didn't have the bleeding under his shell then I would just let him adjust to things. He did eat a lot last night so that's good. Thanks again for responding! I appreciate it. Fingers crossed that he just needs to rest and relax.


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## Jami (Jun 26, 2014)

Hi everyone. Saw the vet. Prognosis not good. Posted about it all on the Hermann's forum. We have met an incredible vet! She did so much and helped us tremendously. They filled syringes with antibiotics in teeny tiny doses. I have to give it to him with a catheter tip attached to the syringe cause he's too tiny. I'm giving baytril and clindamycin. He got some fluids and she got a speck of blood and analyzed it. Feels he looks very toxic. Septic. Not sure he'll make it but so willing to help me. She spent two hours on him - us- when she could have been off work. I'm so grateful. They filled 28 syringes with the clin stuff and 14 with the baytril. I told her I was leery of baytril but she encouraged me to try her dosage. It's minute doses diluted in water. I hope it all helps him. I'm very sad but not going to give up on him yet. Thanks!


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