# Sulcata is screaming please help



## Sosamuk (Jan 28, 2015)

My sulcata makes a horrible screaming noise, in the video it happens when he retracts his head, although I'm not sure if he makes the noise at other times, he's on a mixed diet of fruit and salad, he's in an open topped table viv and lives with a horsefield, the heating carts from 15 degrees at night and 24/26 degrees during the day, he has a uv light on for 13 hours of the day and lives on wood pellets, I have tried them on top souls but they don't seem to like it and make loads of mess, the have cuttlefish and a powder block to chew on but don't seem to be interested in it recently, please help

Sam


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## Sosamuk (Jan 28, 2015)

See video ataxhed


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## Tom (Jan 28, 2015)

Is this a prank?

Your video did not attach. If this is not a joke, then you are lucky your tortoise is still alive. Either you got no advice, or you got and followed really bad advice. On the chance that this is for real I'm going to give you the advice you should have gotten. Reading all of these will show you where your mistakes are and how to correct them.

You need to immediately:
1. Soak this tortoise in warm water. The screaming is likely due to constipation.
2. Get it warmed up. This tortoise should never drop below 26, even at night, and it needs a basking area of 37 or so.

In the near future you need to:
1. House them separately. Species should never be mixed and tortoises should generally not be housed as a pair.
2. Vastly improve the diet. Fruit is bad for them. Salad is not harmful, but it is also not the correct diet.
3. Change that substrate.
4. Get this tortoise into an enclosure that can provide the correct heat and humidity for the species.

Here are your threads:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/how-to-raise-a-healthy-sulcata-or-leopard-version-2-0.78361/
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/beginner-mistakes.45180/
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/for-those-who-have-a-young-sulcata.76744/

And here is one for your horsfield:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/russian-tortoise-care-sheet.80698/

If this is genuine, I hope you will let us help you and your tortoises.


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## Sosamuk (Jan 28, 2015)

I got the advise off of forums, before I got the tortoise, no idea why the video didn't load, but I bath him regularly. And he only has fruit occasionally but I will remove fruit from his diet now you have advised me that it's not good for them. I am getting a lot of different advise from different people it's very hard to know what's the correct advise to take


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## pepsiandjac (Jan 28, 2015)

Sosamuk said:


> I got the advise off of forums, before I got the tortoise, no idea why the video didn't load, but I bath him regularly. And he only has fruit occasionally but I will remove fruit from his diet now you have advised me that it's not good for them. I am getting a lot of different advise from different people it's very hard to know what's the correct advise to take


Sosamuk,for the sake of your tort, please listen to Tom,forget everything else you was ever told,no-one knows sullys better than Tom


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## Robertchrisroph (Jan 28, 2015)

What is correct is Tom. He is the man, sometimes he's rough but its the tortoise he cares about. Please do as he says


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## Jodie (Jan 28, 2015)

I hope you will listen to Tom. There is a lot of bad advice out there, bot Tom really knows what he is talking about and can help you. Read the threads and ask any questions you have.


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## Sosamuk (Jan 28, 2015)

Thank you for your advise, my sulcata is 7 years old and I have obviously been doing it wrong for a long time! He seems very happy but I have read his other posts and will tKe note of them and change my ways, what I will say is that all of toms points aside what would be causing the screaming?


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## Sosamuk (Jan 28, 2015)

Btw I have tried soaking him in warm water still nothing, he's eating normally


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## Robertchrisroph (Jan 28, 2015)

The first 2 lines of toms answer is important. get him in the bath tub and soak with warm water. Not till he gets wet but a good soak, maybe half an hour or more keep temps between 80 and 90 f water temp. get him to move around in the water. Don't fill past were the bottom and top of shell meet. If he's stopped up it could be painful. (screaming).


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## Robertchrisroph (Jan 28, 2015)

How long was his soaks. Mine gets to pooping around the 30 minutes.


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## Heather H (Jan 28, 2015)

Welcome to the forum. Can you post pics of him.


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## Robertchrisroph (Jan 28, 2015)

Can you take him for a drive? lol. I herd the bumps on a trip can get them pooping to


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## Sosamuk (Jan 28, 2015)

He's currently in the bath, l give him half an hour and keep the temperature up.


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## Sosamuk (Jan 28, 2015)

If he still hasn't pooped i take him for a drive and see if that helps


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## Tom (Jan 28, 2015)

Sosamuk said:


> Thank you for your advise, my sulcata is 7 years old and I have obviously been doing it wrong for a long time! He seems very happy but I have read his other posts and will tKe note of them and change my ways, what I will say is that all of toms points aside what would be causing the screaming?



Hi Sam. Given all you said, I really wasn't sure this was for real. Most people know to keep sulcatas warm and not house them with a russian, but I understand there is a lot of conflicting info out there in the world. We have a thread running on this right now. Check it out:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/dont-ask-if-you-wont-take-the-advice.110935/
I think it will give you some more insight into this place. Just don't stop after the first few posts. There are some really good posts in this thread, so read on a bit.

Anyhow, on to your issue: Most of the time this is due to dehydration and or constipation. I can only guess at this point. Housing them dry on dry substrate can contribute to dehydration. Lack of fiber in the diet could be part of your issue too. In any case the treatment is lots of soaking and exercise. Locomotion helps move things along the GI tract and water absorbed into the cloaca will help soften the stool. Best to use a bath tub. The size and slickness will have give him a good work out and get him very active which is what is needed. Keep the water warm and refresh it as needed. I'd soak for an hour and get the water about half way up the shell, but do be careful and keep a close eye on him in the tub. I would do this every day for the next couple of weeks and also begin addressing your temperature, substrate and diet issues during that time. I suspect the unusually cold temperatures (Cold for this species, fine for your russian although even he needs a warmer basking spot...) might also have been a contributing factor. Often car rides (warm car, plastic tub) will break things loose and make them poop. If this doesn't work after a day or two, you may need a vet to help squirt some mineral oil up the cloaca. At that point a vet could also X-ray and eliminate or confirm the possibility of kidney or bladder stones.

If constipation is not your issue, the soaks and exercise will do no harm.

Please keep us posted and feel free to ask lots of questions.


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## pepsiandjac (Jan 28, 2015)

Like Tom said its probably constipation,i;d soak him for longer than half an hour just make sure water don;t go cold


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## Sosamuk (Jan 28, 2015)

I'm say by the bath with a thermometer in keeping and eye on the temp. I have just drawn up plans to build a new vic for him, as my trade is carpentry a new vic will be built by the end of the week and I have some top soils down the farm I will use as substrate. Any other advise would be great. During the summer he does spend the day outside eating grass and weeds etc I have only been feeding him fruit for the past few weeks so will stop that straight away and will stop feeding him salad tomorrow and start weening him onto grass as your other post has suggested.


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## Jodie (Jan 28, 2015)

Hope this works out ok. My leopard had problems with constipation a while back and i dipped Romaine, because this is her favorite, in mineral oil. I gave her a tablespoon and a day later she would be better. Make sure you give the mineral oil with food, if you do this. They can choke on it otherwise. Good luck.


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## Sosamuk (Jan 28, 2015)

30 min update, no poop yet, going to keep him in for another 30 mins and repeate all week but will take him for a drive as well


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## Robertchrisroph (Jan 28, 2015)

Hello. Good to read all these. Your sulcata is handsome or pretty. You say he is 7 years old if I read right. Are you for sure the male or female. I'm just asking because you either have a very large bath tub or a small 7 year old sulcata. Lol. I received mine from a rescue in April last year. Weight was 800 grams in just the little time I've had mine he has put on 8 or 9 pounds. At 7 mine will at least 50 pounds or more allot more. Do you have any idea on its weight. How much he weights.


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## Robertchrisroph (Jan 28, 2015)

I read wrong. Lol. How old is he?


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## Sosamuk (Jan 28, 2015)

Robertchrisroph said:


> I read wrong. Lol. How old is he?



To be fair I haven't sexed him, and I was wrong he isn't 7, my horsefield is 7 my sulcata is only 4. My wife just corrected me.


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## Sosamuk (Jan 28, 2015)

Just been and measured him and he's 9 inches long by 7 inches wide


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## Sosamuk (Jan 28, 2015)

Is their any food you would recommend to help him with his constipation?


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## Sosamuk (Jan 28, 2015)

Btw he's out the bath and he didn't poop, I took him for a drive round the block and still nothing, I will repeat for the next 6 days and consult a vet if nothing happens


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## Heather H (Jan 28, 2015)

If you get a picture of the underside including the tail they might be able to tell you the sex.


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## Heather H (Jan 28, 2015)

@Tom my friend in Texas said hers does this when she is egg bound and she has to give pitocin (sp ? ) she has no computer so she can't come on here. Her sulcata is 15 years old. I don't know anything about this though.


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## Sosamuk (Jan 28, 2015)

1


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## Sosamuk (Jan 28, 2015)

2


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## Dizisdalife (Jan 28, 2015)

Sosamuk said:


> Is their any food you would recommend to help him with his constipation?


Sometimes squash or pumpkin can help move things along. Succulents are also good. I feed mine opuntia cactus pads. First I remove any spines or glochids from the pad.


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## Heather H (Jan 28, 2015)

I think it's a boy but I'm wrong half the time


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## Sosamuk (Jan 28, 2015)

His name is Hershel so we guessed he's a boy but unlike Fletcher my Horsefield he's a lot harder to sex.


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## keepergale (Jan 28, 2015)

Heather Hilliard said:


> I think it's a boy but I'm wrong half the time


Ha Ha Good thing we only have a couple choices huh.


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## Heather H (Jan 28, 2015)

If you take a pic of Fletcher they can help with him to.


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## Sosamuk (Jan 28, 2015)

Fletcher is defiantly a boy, I won't go into too much detail how I know lol


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## Heather H (Jan 28, 2015)

Sosamuk said:


> Fletcher is defiantly a boy, I won't go into too much detail how I know lol


Yeah got it ty  I needed the giggle


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## Heather H (Jan 28, 2015)

How's Hershel doing?


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## Tom (Jan 28, 2015)

Heather Hilliard said:


> @Tom my friend in Texas said hers does this when she is egg bound and she has to give pitocin (sp ? ) she has no computer so she can't come on here. Her sulcata is 15 years old. I don't know anything about this though.



This was a good thought. I like your way of thinking here. In this case though, the animal in question is not sexually mature enough to produce eggs yet. Most sulcatas don't produce until they are 17-18" long. There are rare cases of 15" females producing eggs, but that is unusual. A 9" sulcata could not be egg bound.

Its good to present possibilities for elimination though. We can now rest assured that in this case, it is not egg binding.


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## Tom (Jan 28, 2015)

Sosamuk said:


> 2



Still too early, but I'm leaning female-ish. The anal scutes are going female shaped, but that tail could still go either way. Too small for any gular or plastron changes yet.


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## Yvonne G (Jan 28, 2015)

If he poops but still screams, then he might be trying to pass a stone. Tortoises that have been kept too dry or have been fed foods containing a lot of oxalates, develop kidney/bladder stones. This will show up on an X-ray.


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## newCH (Jan 28, 2015)

Didn't know a tort could scream ! I used to have a rabbit that would scream when she didnt want to be picked up, more like defense mechanism from
a prey animal. She was in good health. But boy was it a terrible scream !

I liked the mineral oil on lettuce idea. Thats sounds like something to remember !

Good luck with your tort !


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## Sosamuk (Jan 28, 2015)

Thanks for all your help guys I'll keep you posted


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## Heather H (Jan 29, 2015)

any news on Hershel


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## Sosamuk (Jan 29, 2015)

Still no poop, I've driven him around and nothing, I'll keep bathing him everyday until ext Wednesday and of nothing happens I'll take him to the vet.

Can someone recommend a UK website to buy food and minerals from?


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## Aspirerite (Jan 30, 2015)

If its constipation try feeding aloe vera if you have any its a natural laxative. Buy a book or be prepared to do endless hours of study and cross checking information. Most information is old wife's tales. Go to the tortoise trust website you can find lots of info there and they can also help you before its to late


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## Jodie (Jan 30, 2015)

Did you try mineral oil. Just a little bit on lettuce. It worked for my Leopard even after surgery and the vet couldn't get her to poop. She was so constipated she had stopped eating and the vet wanted to do a feeding tube. I said no, took her home. Gave her a salad with mineral oil dressing and less than 48 hours later. Tada poop .


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## Sosamuk (Jan 30, 2015)

I have been searching the Internet for mineral oil and can't find any reference, I don't want to but the wrong thing can you suggest where or what to buy?


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## phebe121 (Jan 30, 2015)

I hope he gets better soon alot of dandelion might help with cucumber


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## Robertchrisroph (Jan 30, 2015)

CVS pharmacy place like that


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## Robertchrisroph (Jan 30, 2015)




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## Sosamuk (Jan 30, 2015)

So will the human stuff work? It doesn't need to be tort specific?


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## Robertchrisroph (Jan 30, 2015)

Yes human.


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## Sosamuk (Jan 30, 2015)

Do I just sprinkle on food or should I pop it in his mouth?


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## Robertchrisroph (Jan 30, 2015)

Try dipping some of his food


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## Jodie (Jan 30, 2015)

Sosamuk said:


> Do I just sprinkle on food or should I pop it in his mouth?


It needs to ve on food. I just dip romaine in it and hand feed. Or pour a bit on the leaf and roll up like a taco.


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## leigti (Jan 30, 2015)

Jodie said:


> It needs to ve on food. I just dip romaine in it and hand feed. Or pour a bit on the leaf and roll up like a taco.


Agreed. My tortoise will take her medication very easily if I sprayed it onto a Romain leaf and roll it up like a burrito.


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## Sosamuk (Jan 30, 2015)

Will do, thanks guys


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## ascott (Jan 31, 2015)

Sosamuk said:


> Will do, thanks guys



http://www.quijano.net/tq/turtlesounds.html

What do you mean by "scream"?


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## Jodie (Jan 31, 2015)

Sosamuk said:


> Will do, thanks guys


How's he doing?


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## Sosamuk (Feb 1, 2015)

It's not like this lol






Having studied him more, he screams when he retracts his head, although he doesn't make the screaming noise everytime he retracts it.

I have given him some mineral oil on some colliflower leaves and he ate it. I have gotten some grass and I'm going to wean him into it as he wont usually touch it, he's still screaming just not as often now.



ascott said:


> http://www.quijano.net/tq/turtlesounds.html
> 
> What do you mean by "scream"?


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## Sosamuk (Feb 1, 2015)

Can I give lactulose to hershel?


http://www.manorpharmacy.co.uk/medi...medies-c244/lactulose-solution-bp-500ml-p8548


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## Jodie (Feb 1, 2015)

Sosamuk said:


> Can I give lactulose to hershel?
> 
> 
> http://www.manorpharmacy.co.uk/medi...medies-c244/lactulose-solution-bp-500ml-p8548


I wouldn't.


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## newCH (Feb 1, 2015)

Interesting link. Sound like a snorting sound


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## Sosamuk (Feb 1, 2015)

Jodie said:


> I wouldn't.


Other sites suggest it, which is why I'm asking here before hand


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## Jodie (Feb 1, 2015)

Sosamuk said:


> Other sites suggest it, which is why I'm asking here before hand


Just what I would do. I am not an expert. The mineral oil has worked for me. You don't want to over do it n cause more problems. How long has it been since he had a bowel movement? Could be something else entirely going on and not just a constipation problem. I would not recommend over treatment for a problem that is assumed at this point. Your recent description makes me think it may be an respiratory infection or even a normal sound when expelling the air from his lungs to retreat into the shell.


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## Sosamuk (Feb 1, 2015)

I haven't seen a poo in a few weeks, there is none in his viv, so Im thinking constipation could be right.


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## Sosamuk (Feb 1, 2015)

He's just got in the bath and expelled some brown liquid, see photo, what do you think?


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## Jodie (Feb 1, 2015)

Looks like urine? How is he otherwise? Is he eating? Active? How do his eyes and nose look?


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## Sosamuk (Feb 1, 2015)

Eyes and nose look normal, he's still eating normally.


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## Jodie (Feb 1, 2015)

I wouldn't do anything drastic then by any means. Keep us updated. I have spent my share of time trying to get a tortoise to poop. Good luck.


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## Sosamuk (Feb 2, 2015)

Still no poop, he's weeing normally so he's onviosuly not dehydrated.


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## Aspirerite (Feb 5, 2015)

You can get aloe vera on Ebay


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## Heather H (Feb 5, 2015)

Don't do this until someone answers .......
@Tom @Yvonne G @ascott I tagged you guys but know many others might know. Can he add aloe juice to the soak to help his tort poop? I buy it at Wal-Mart.


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## Heather H (Feb 5, 2015)

Is his tail swollen? Can you get a picture?


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## ascott (Feb 5, 2015)

Sosamuk said:


> I haven't seen a poo in a few weeks, there is none in his viv, so Im thinking constipation could be right.





Sosamuk said:


> I haven't seen a poo in a few weeks, there is none in his viv, so Im thinking constipation could be right.



Perhaps he is simply recycling the poo...torts are opportunist and will often leave nothing behind...I also would not give a human type aid to the tort that is not a natural in ingredients.


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## ascott (Feb 5, 2015)

Sosamuk said:


> Can I give lactulose to hershel?
> 
> 
> http://www.manorpharmacy.co.uk/medi...medies-c244/lactulose-solution-bp-500ml-p8548



I would not give that product to a tortoise...it is a synthetic sugar based product...it would not be something I would offer...


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## Yvonne G (Feb 5, 2015)

I usually soak my Mazuri Tortoise Diet in Aloe juice, but never thought of adding it to the soaking water. I really doubt it would do much to lubricate the 'pipes.' What you need is mineral oil. Mineral oil is non absorptive, so it doesn't mix with the food, it merely coats the lining of the stomach and all the 'pipes' including the obstruction. But don't give mineral oil by mouth by itself. If you put it into his mouth, he can't feel it and he might breathe it in. Coat a leaf of lettuce with it then roll up the leaf and hand feed it to the tortoise.


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## Sosamuk (Feb 8, 2015)

Cheers Yvonne I'll give that a go


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## Sosamuk (Feb 11, 2015)

Update, screaming isn't as often as before, but still no signs of poop. Going to see a vet on Wednesday of nothing happens in the meantime


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## HLogic (Feb 11, 2015)

Today is Wednesday. Is your vet appt next Wed? It's been 2 weeks already...you'd be screaming, too!


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## Heather H (Feb 11, 2015)

Sosamuk said:


> Update, screaming isn't as often as before, but still no signs of poop. Going to see a vet on Wednesday of nothing happens in the meantime


update? how is he???


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## AbbyLee22 (Feb 11, 2015)

Following. Hope Hershel is doing better.


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## Lyn W (Feb 15, 2015)

My leopard has trouble with constipation too so I have been reading all your tips and suggestions with great interest. I usually try some grated aloe vera on her food (very mushy but she won't touch it otherwise) and it still takes days afterwards. I have looked up mineral oil liquid for UK but it seems that over here it is known as *liquid paraffin* which is a common remedy for human constipation - I think this is probably different from the paraffin used as fuel so check with a chemist/ pharmacist first!


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## HLogic (Feb 15, 2015)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquid_paraffin_(medicinal) - I would not use the paraffinum perliquidum (light) more than very short term.


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## stinax182 (Feb 15, 2015)

I know when my tort is doing his business he sticks his head in and out a couple times. It's his signal to the clean up crew


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## AZtortMom (Feb 16, 2015)

How are things going?


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## HLogic (Feb 16, 2015)

@Sosamuk what's the story?


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## Lyn W (Feb 16, 2015)

Just wondering would a leaf dipped in a more natural human remedy like syrup of figs or stuff that uses senna pods do the same jobs or are these harmful to torts?


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