# Does my tortoise have septicemia?



## Jim Bronley (May 31, 2014)

So, I went out hiking today and got back and picked up my tortoise and this pink hue to the plastron really startled me. If you look closely at the image, you can see the pink all over. It's the worst up near his head. The fact that it's affecting everything but the seams in his scutes shows it's not growth to me. I haven't noticed any strange behavior lately. He poops and pees just fine in his soakings. I haven't seen any open wounds on him, either. He readily chowed down on some plantain leaf I fed him earlier. He was also walking around and exploring my living room floor as usual then walked around on the couch while I sat with him. Could it simply be a stain? I'm not quite sure what would have happened that would cause him to get septicemia and I don't believe he's acting out of the ordinary. Any advice and quick replies are much appreciated. Thanks.


----------



## dmmj (May 31, 2014)

septicima is real hard to verify by a picture, but if there is a pinkish hue to his shell it could very well ne, could it be discoloration on his shell?


----------



## Jim Bronley (May 31, 2014)

I thought it might be discoloration. It seems to have just popped up out of nowhere. I soaked him today and rubbed his shell with my finger, but the color didn't seem to come off really. I plan to keep an eye on it for a few more days and see if it goes away or gets worse. I just need some other opinions on the matter.


----------



## JoesMum (Jun 1, 2014)

Is your tort eating and behaving normally? Is the plastron soft or hard? Do you have any other cause for concern?


----------



## ascott (Jun 1, 2014)

What type of substrate do you house this tortoise on? What color is it?


----------



## Yvonne G (Jun 1, 2014)

Let's give @HermanniChris a shout-out. He may be able to tell us if its a normal look for that type tortoise.


----------



## Jim Bronley (Jun 1, 2014)

@JoesMum : He seems to be eating normally to me, and his behavior hasn't changed as of yet. The plastron is hard, well, not any softer than usual. He's not quite a year old yet, so it has a very slight amount of springiness to it, but the spots don't seem to be soft nor does any other part of his shell. Another cause for concern was a light pink dot on his leg, it was very small, that seems to have disappeared. 

@ascott : I house him on cypress mulch mixed with a small portion of sphagnum. Inside his hide is a bit of coco coir mixed with the mulch as well. The mulch is free of dyes also.


----------



## Jim Bronley (Jun 1, 2014)

As some additional information. He hasn't grown much in a few months. He's been between 3-3/4" and 4" for a few months now. He's not growing in length, but he feels weighty, I don't have a scale, but I could use my roommates to weigh him if you need. His shell seems to be becoming more defined, such as the flaring around his back legs. I've also noticed his tail has been slowly growing as well. This could explain why he hasn't been growing maybe. I haven't noticed any behavior that should cause concern lately. I interact with him daily and usually give him a look over every day to every other day. It may have been three days since I looked at his plastron before seeing this, though. He was awake and just sitting by his cork round at 2am last night, but I've seen this happen on more than one occasion where he is just hanging out in the pitch black and I turn on the room light to check everything before bed. 

I'm going to pull apart his enclosure again today and look around for anything that looks like it could be causing his shell to stain. I was thinking maybe he tracked food into his hide and was sleeping in it, but I didn't see any yesterday. I'm going to give him another soak today and let him run around the house and keep an eye out for any signs of a problem.

The biggest concern for me is the pink at his centerline at his front legs. It's a more defined pink than the rest of his plastron has. It's not red, but it's red-pink as opposed to the pink of the rest of the plastron spots.


----------



## Maggie Cummings (Jun 1, 2014)

if you don't want him to die, take him to a vet. but the septicaemia i have seen is more pink and in the growth lines. stop allowing him to walk on the rug, it's not safe and it stresses them out.


----------



## Jim Bronley (Jun 1, 2014)

@maggie3fan : I wanted some second opinions before going to the vet as I tend to worry about nothing. Also, what's wrong with the carpet? It's a pretty stiff carpet and no fuzz sticks up. I vacuum and keep an eye on him when he's out and I check the air temperature at floor level before letting him walk around. The only time he's ever shown signs of stress is the first time I've let him on the carpet. It's been many months and he enjoys walking around and exploring the house. I'm not being defensive just trying to explain my thinking and understand yours. Thanks.


----------



## taza (Jun 1, 2014)

Something of interst
*Septicaemia:* Signs include vomiting, lethargy, distinct reddish flush or tinge on the plastron or under carapace shields (except in angulates). Haemorrhages of tongue and oral mucous membranes occur, jaundice, and the animal drinks excessively. This is sometimes caused by egg retention/rupture, or gut impaction. Obtain veterinary help immediately.


----------



## Jim Bronley (Jun 1, 2014)

@taza I saw that and have been keeping an eye out for signs. This is why I've not seen a vet yet. There are no other signs present and the coloring is more pink than red. My hope is just that someone with more experience than I with septicemia or other illness can chime in and provide their insight.


----------



## Dizisdalife (Jun 1, 2014)

If the stains are from the substrate that you are using I believe you would have seen this coloration before. Unless this is from some new substrate material. Typically the skin is what gets stained first. I see it happen often with new, moist coir. If your tortoise has septicaemia then this may be the early signs and the other symptoms will eventually appear. When they do it will mean that the recovery (if possible) is longer and perhaps more expensive. A visit to a reptile Vet could be the quickest, least expensive path you can take.


----------



## dmmj (Jun 1, 2014)

No one not even a vet can diagnose with a piic. or several pics. I did not know about walking around on the carpet, the danger from carpet walking is simp[y a carpet even cleaned daily is not safe from dangers, even tiny little things we can't see could be hiding in there, tiny little pieces of glass, plastic and what not. While exploring on your carpet he could have gotten a tiny little prick.


----------



## Jim Bronley (Jun 1, 2014)

Here's an updated pic from just now. The lighting is slightly different, but the pinkness is drastically reduced from what was observed last night. There's still slight pinkness in certain areas, but the hue that was all over isn't apparent in many areas. He's still acting normally and eating. He didn't poop during his soak, but I didn't feed him that much yesterday nor today, so I don't think I should be concerned with that. 

@dmmj : The title is misleading, but I am not looking for a diagnosis, just some advice from someone who has experienced my situation before. To ask a blunt question implies I'm looking for a diagnosis, but I was simply attempting to be direct in order to assert the situation concisely in the title. And I'm having a tough time believing that having him walk on a carpet is any more dangerous or risky than letting him on hardwood or out in my lawn. To say that a carpet is inherently more dangerous than anything else is tough for me to understand. He could have cut himself on a wood chip in his enclosure for that matter. I'm willing to stop allowing him on the carpet if I'm provided with a solid and compelling argument against it. Anecdotally, I've never heard of a carpet being dangerous even for other reptiles.

I think I'm going to keep an eye on this coloration for the next few days to see if it goes away or redevelops. It's not a matter I'm taking lightly, but I'm also not going to run out and go to the vet if nothing is wrong. He's acting normally too and if he wasn't, I'd have gotten him to the vet already. Though I do understand that symptoms aren't always apparent, but maybe there is another issue here that isn't his health.


----------



## ascott (Jun 1, 2014)

I have to say, I went and put on my old lady spectacles........I do not see anything that would freak me out, not personally seeing anything that would make me jump to any concern....now, does that mean I know for sure...of course not. I would continue business as usual and if the tort is continues to eat, bask, exercise and act "normal" for his ways then I would just take some pics for yourself for comparison value...I would be sure to do the pics the same time of day, the same location and the same lighting---this way you will have true points of comparison....


----------

