# Real world UVB test done



## ZEROPILOT

I've conducted a UVB test and the results have surprised me.
I've included photos of what I tested and tested with...
A very popular T5 HO (5.0) florescent fixture and a SOLARMETER 6.5R.
When I first set up my Chameleons enclosures, the new lights put out a reading of almost 8.0 at the top branches. About 4" down.
I wish I'd done a comprehensive test back then as a baseline!
This test is about 6 to 8 months later.
Through a thin Exo Terra screen top, these lights now read:
4" 5.6
8" 2.2
12" 1.1
And anything further away in nomimal.
This light, if used for a tortoise and mounted on top of a screen would need to be 8" or less away from your tortoises after 6 minths.

Without a screen did a bit better. But not a lot:
4" 6.5
8" 3.3
12" 1,7
16" 1.0
This light not mounted on top of a screen would need to be a foot away from your tortoise after the light is 6 months old.

This has shown me how quickly UVB florescent lights lose their effectiveness over a short period of time.
That they must be constantly measured and adjusted or replaced.
AND that 5.0 tubes are not the best choice for tortoises unless the lights will be no more than a foot away from them.
(I've been told that previously.)
I'm very curious to know what an ARCADIA system measures at.
And what a 10.0 HO T5 tube measures at these same distances.
As for me, I've just ordered 3 T5 10.0 tubes to replace my 5.0s.
When they arrive, I'll re measure the UVB and adjust my branches accordingly.
Outside sunlight is the best. But, as of today, I'm no longer suggesting that 5.0 be used unless it's in a very low hanging light.
T5 HO 10.0 is the way to go. And a UVB meter is a required tool for measuring the output of your lights.


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## Tom

When you get a meter under them, you'll find that the Arcadia 12% HO tubes put out a lot more UV than that.


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## ZEROPILOT

Tom said:


> When you get a meter under them, you'll find that the Arcadia 12% HO tubes put out a lot more UV than that.


No doubt.
These results disappointed me.
And all 3 had very similar readings.
(Unlike my previous test of MVB bulbs)
By the way, thank you for getting me to give up on my old T8 tubes.
God only knows how little UVB my animals got back then.


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## turtlesteve

ZEROPILOT said:


> No doubt.
> These results disappointed me.
> And all 3 had very similar readings.
> (Unlike my previous test of MVB bulbs)
> By the way, thank you for getting me to give up on my old T8 tubes.
> God only knows how little UVB my animals got back then.



Yeah I’ve had similar disappointing findings after getting a meter. MVB bulbs are low out of the box and drop to zero UVB after a year. I had the exact same result with T8, they have to be 8” away to get a decent reading. So, I use them for hatchlings in very low profile enclosures. At least the T8s are not losing output, so I can probably run them until they burn out. 

The reptisun 10.0 T5’s seem to be decent so far. I get a reading of 3.0 at about 24”. I haven’t had them long enough to know how long they will last. I might do a side by side comparison versus the Arcadia 12% next time I buy bulbs.


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## Tom

turtlesteve said:


> Yeah I’ve had similar disappointing findings after getting a meter. MVB bulbs are low out of the box and drop to zero UVB after a year. I had the exact same result with T8, they have to be 8” away to get a decent reading. So, I use them for hatchlings in very low profile enclosures. At least the T8s are not losing output, so I can probably run them until they burn out.
> 
> The reptisun 10.0 T5’s seem to be decent so far. I get a reading of 3.0 at about 24”. I haven’t had them long enough to know how long they will last. I might do a side by side comparison versus the Arcadia 12% next time I buy bulbs.


My T-8s were putting out almost the same UV for 3 years.

My Arcadia 12% bulbs lost a little output after 2 years, but were still making high levels of UV. I lowered them a couple inches and got the same readings as when they were brand new.


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## ZEROPILOT

Tom said:


> My T-8s were putting out almost the same UV for 3 years.
> 
> My Arcadia 12% bulbs lost a little output after 2 years, but were still making high levels of UV. I lowered them a couple inches and got the same readings as when they were brand new.


I'm not too proud to say that I learn new things all the time.
Literally as i go.
The new REPTISUN 22" T5 10.0 tubes are about $30 each.
The entire fixture with a T5 5.0 included were just $50.
I will measure thier UVB right out of the box.
It's possible that the less expensive REPTISUN might actually be the more expensive one if the tubes crap out at 8 months.


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## jensem17

ZEROPILOT said:


> I'm not too proud to say that I learn new things all the time.
> Literally as i go.
> The new REPTISUN 22" T5 10.0 tubes are about $30 each.
> The entire fixture with a T5 5.0 included were just $50.
> I will measure thier UVB right out of the box.
> It's possible that the less expensive REPTISUN might actually be the more expensive one if the tubes crap out at 8 months.



Thank you for posting your results! This is really good info.

Also! Happy birthday!!


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## ZEROPILOT

jensem17 said:


> Thank you for posting your results! This is really good info.
> 
> Also! Happy birthday!!


Thank you


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## ZEROPILOT

The 10.0 REPTISUN T5 HO results are in!
Without passing through a screen top:
4" 11.2
8" 8.9
12" 5.5
20" 2.0

With a screen top:
4" 10.3
8" 7.7
12" 4.6
20" 1.1
So, a pretty big increase. But these 10.0 are new. And the 5.0 were not.
The effects of the screen is about the same percentage down the line.
This is probably a case for using the 10.0 for most species and just adjusting the height as needed or the light duration.
This might also show that the more expensive ARCADIA tubes might actually be less expensive because of some evidence that they are more effective for longer.
Your thoughts and readings are welcome


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## ZEROPILOT

Tom said:


> My T-8s were putting out almost the same UV for 3 years.
> 
> My Arcadia 12% bulbs lost a little output after 2 years, but were still making high levels of UV. I lowered them a couple inches and got the same readings as when they were brand new.


I've got some old T8s sitting around. I'll test them next!


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## Mrs.Jennifer

ZEROPILOT said:


> I've got some old T8s sitting around. I'll test them next!


This is fabulous information! Thanks for the testing.


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## ZEROPILOT

Mrs.Jennifer said:


> This is fabulous information! Thanks for the testing.


Sure.
I'm teaching myself, too.


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## Markw84

ZEROPILOT said:


> I'm not too proud to say that I learn new things all the time.
> Literally as i go.
> The new REPTISUN 22" T5 10.0 tubes are about $30 each.
> The entire fixture with a T5 5.0 included were just $50.
> I will measure thier UVB right out of the box.
> It's possible that the less expensive REPTISUN might actually be the more expensive one if the tubes crap out at 8 months.



Just a note for reference:

I sell Arcadia T5 12% 22" bulbs for $22. The Arcadia Pro T5 fixture with 12% bulb for $60


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## ZEROPILOT

Markw84 said:


> Just a note for reference:
> 
> I sell Arcadia T5 12% 22" bulbs for $22. The Arcadia Pro T5 fixture with 12% bulb for $60


Are the Arcadia 22" compatible with the 22" REPTISUN fixture/ballast?
At less than $10 more, I think that the Arcadia is the way to go.
I'd buy 3 stand by replacement tubes again.
But buying another $180 worth of lighting right now is probably not going to happen.
The replacement T5 10.0 Reptisun where over $38 each tube.
Those 12% seem like a bargain


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## Jasminemmm

Markw84 said:


> Just a note for reference:
> 
> I sell Arcadia T5 12% 22" bulbs for $22. The Arcadia Pro T5 fixture with 12% bulb for $60


How can I buy from you? I live in IL.


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## jensem17

ZEROPILOT said:


> Are the Arcadia 22" compatible with the 22" REPTISUN fixture/ballast?
> At less than $10 more, I think that the Arcadia is the way to go.
> I'd buy 3 stand by replacement tubes again.
> But buying another $180 worth of lighting right now is probably not going to happen.
> The replacement T5 10.0 Reptisun where over $38 each tube.
> Those 12% seem like a bargain


I just replaced my ReptiSun T5 34" with an Arcadia 12% 34" in my ReptiSun 36" T5 fixture without issue. I would assume the 22" would replace the ZooMed T5 the same.


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## Markw84

ZEROPILOT said:


> Are the Arcadia 22" compatible with the 22" REPTISUN fixture/ballast?
> At less than $10 more, I think that the Arcadia is the way to go.
> I'd buy 3 stand by replacement tubes again.
> But buying another $180 worth of lighting right now is probably not going to happen.
> The replacement T5 10.0 Reptisun where over $38 each tube.
> Those 12% seem like a bargain



All T5 fixtures are the same - accepting all T5 bulbs. The 22" will fit in another 22" fixture. The quality and ballast of the Reptisun should be good and there should be no issue at all using an Arcadia bulb in the Reptisun Fixture. The design of the reflector will affect the UVI output and distrubution under the bulb - so it will be an interesting test for you to do with this thread.


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## ZEROPILOT

Markw84 said:


> All T5 fixtures are the same - accepting all T5 bulbs. The 22" will fit in another 22" fixture. The quality and ballast of the Reptisun should be good and there should be no issue at all using an Arcadia bulb in the Reptisun Fixture. The design of the reflector will affect the UVI output and distrubution under the bulb - so it will be an interesting test for you to do with this thread.


In about 6 months, if I see these new REPTISUN tubes crapping out, or whenever they eventually do, I'll replace them with Arcadia.


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## Tes

Is it known how much UVB output is needed/good for tortoises? Or is it the more the merrier?


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## ZEROPILOT

Tes said:


> Is it known how much UVB output is needed/good for tortoises? Or is it the more the merrier?


Each species has different levels required. Some have far less.
What type do you have?
You can probably ask your Smartphone


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## jensem17

Tes said:


> Is it known how much UVB output is needed/good for tortoises? Or is it the more the merrier?


This is a pretty good article on UVB and reptiles... https://www.reptilesmagazine.com/an-in-depth-look-at-uv-light-and-its-proper-use-with-reptiles/ 

It's also a great visual as to why most on this forum are against MVB.

They don't list all the tortoise species, just the larger ones.


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## ZEROPILOT

jensem17 said:


> This is a pretty good article on UVB and reptiles... https://www.reptilesmagazine.com/an-in-depth-look-at-uv-light-and-its-proper-use-with-reptiles/
> 
> It's also a great visual as to why most on this forum are against MVB.
> 
> They don't list all the tortoise species, just the larger ones.


Unfortunately, I've got about $250 worth of MVB bulbs in a box under my bed.
I can't make myself throw them away. Even though I've confirmed that they are garbage.
I'd hate to ad up all of cost of all of the junk I bought for my animals over the years that I then just threw away.
Hopefully we can help someone not do the same.


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## Chefdenoel10

ZEROPILOT said:


> Unfortunately, I've got about $250 worth of MVB bulbs in a box under my bed.
> I can't make myself throw them away. Even though I've confirmed that they are garbage.
> I'd hate to ad up all of cost of all of the junk I bought for my animals over the years that I then just threw away.
> Hopefully we can help someone not do the same.



maybe use the crap bulbs under the bed to grow plants instead? That way at least you are using the bulbs...?
Just a suggestion...


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## ZEROPILOT

Chefdenoel10 said:


> maybe use the crap bulbs under the bed to grow plants instead? That way at least you are using the bulbs...?
> Just a suggestion...


That's possible I suppose.
They're UVB and UVA.
However, when I tested them, they produced heat and UVB very unreliably 
and very inconsistently from bulb to bulb, I wouldn't expect them to do anything well.
They really are money flushed down the crapper.


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## Chefdenoel10

ZEROPILOT said:


> That's possible I suppose.
> They're UVB and UVA.
> However, when I tested them, they produced heat and UVB very unreliably
> and very inconsistently from bulb to bulb, I wouldn't expect them to do anything well.
> They really are money flushed down the crapper.



i know how you feel. I have tort stuff like that too.. I can’t just throw it away either! ?
But I certainly would not give it to someone else to use on their pets ...
Sssooooo.... what am I doing with them?


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## ZEROPILOT

Chefdenoel10 said:


> i know how you feel. I have tort stuff like that too.. I can’t just throw it away either! ?
> But I certainly would not give it to someone else to use on their pets ...
> Sssooooo.... what am I doing with them?


I just made a new post about how we waste money on stuff like that


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## Chefdenoel10

ZEROPILOT said:


> I just made a new post about how we waste money on stuff like that



I know that’s how I ended up here.?
I could have a Yacht by now!
$$$$$ ??
Like you said :
Cages
Doctors-$ 4,000 easily!!!
Food
Solometers
Bulbs
Fixtures!!!.....ooohhh.... the fixtures!!!!
I have a quilt bag (see through plastic) full of domes ,clamps, hanging..etc....
What a shame...
Stupid pet stores and their greed...
None of it is very useful (in my case)
When I finally realized the professionals on here are using basic stuff (wood, three bulbs, one of which is just a flood light bulb from Home depot,some other scraps found around the house etc...) I was stunned!
How simple it was 
and I was RUNNING to buy the best from the “Pet Store”.
Figured if it’s there they MUST need it.
Oh...what a fool...?
My tort is so much happier now And thriving!!
If she could talk I swear she would say
“Ma!!!! Enough with all the stuff!”
“I don’t need a fancy bed or a pillow...”
“You know I eat FREE GRASS mostly, right?”
Ooooohhhhh.... the horror stories..?


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## Tes

jensem17 said:


> This is a pretty good article on UVB and reptiles... https://www.reptilesmagazine.com/an-in-depth-look-at-uv-light-and-its-proper-use-with-reptiles/
> 
> It's also a great visual as to why most on this forum are against MVB.
> 
> They don't list all the tortoise species, just the larger ones.



Thanks, it's interesting to read! Also looked up the tortoise that I have (Indian Star) for the right UVB levels.


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## ZEROPILOT

Tes said:


> Thanks, it's interesting to read! Also looked up the tortoise that I have (Indian Star) for the right UVB levels.


That could be a useful thread in itself!
A list of different species and what their UVB needs are......


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## Tes

ZEROPILOT said:


> That could be a useful thread in itself!
> A list of different species and what their UVB needs are......



That's actually not such a bad idea at all! Or include it in the caresheets of the different species.


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## Salspi

.


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## Salspi

Tested a brand new Arcadia 12% t5 4 foot tube today it was 6.5-7.0 at 11inches. Then i tested the Arcadia 6% tube that was a year old and that measured 3.3-3.8 UVI at 11 inches.


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## Skip K

Makes you wonder how many tort keepers out there ...who think they are providing proper uvb...are not. Either because the light source is too far away or the light source is not producing adequate uvb anymore. My meter gives me more than peace of mind. I check all our light sources at least twice a week


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## ZEROPILOT

Tes said:


> Is it known how much UVB output is needed/good for tortoises? Or is it the more the merrier?


Google often has that information.
And there is a fantastic list in a link in a post a few posts before this one.
But a reading of 3 is a ballpark number for most tortoises


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## ZEROPILOT

Salspi said:


> Tested a brand new Arcadia 12% t5 4 foot tube today it was 6.5-7.0 at 11inches. Then i tested the Arcadia 6% tube that was a year old and that measured 3.3-3.8 UVI at 11 inches.


Pretty astounding what that 12% delivers!


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## ZEROPILOT

__





Google Image Result for https://www.solarmeter.com.au/images/6.5RFergusonZone.png






images.app.goo.gl




There may be information to help you in this link


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## tortadise

Fantastic


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## ZEROPILOT

Tom said:


> My T-8s were putting out almost the same UV for 3 years.
> 
> My Arcadia 12% bulbs lost a little output after 2 years, but were still making high levels of UV. I lowered them a couple inches and got the same readings as when they were brand new.


In doing this, the UVB meter would pay for itself in no time at all!


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## ZEROPILOT

Chefdenoel10 said:


> I know that’s how I ended up here.?
> I could have a Yacht by now!
> $$$$$ ??
> Like you said :
> Cages
> Doctors-$ 4,000 easily!!!
> Food
> Solometers
> Bulbs
> Fixtures!!!.....ooohhh.... the fixtures!!!!
> I have a quilt bag (see through plastic) full of domes ,clamps, hanging..etc....
> What a shame...
> Stupid pet stores and their greed...
> None of it is very useful (in my case)
> When I finally realized the professionals on here are using basic stuff (wood, three bulbs, one of which is just a flood light bulb from Home depot,some other scraps found around the house etc...) I was stunned!
> How simple it was
> and I was RUNNING to buy the best from the “Pet Store”.
> Figured if it’s there they MUST need it.
> Oh...what a fool...?
> My tort is so much happier now And thriving!!
> If she could talk I swear she would say
> “Ma!!!! Enough with all the stuff!”
> “I don’t need a fancy bed or a pillow...”
> “You know I eat FREE GRASS mostly, right?”
> Ooooohhhhh.... the horror stories..?


I HATE being that person that tells a new member that almost everything that they bought for their tortoise is garbage!
It must be alarming and crushing.
Especially when there is so much elsewhere on the internet that disagrees with our proven facts


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## Chefdenoel10

ZEROPILOT said:


> I HATE being that person that tells a new member that almost everything that they bought for their tortoise is garbage!
> It must be alarming and crushing.
> Especially when there is so much elsewhere on the internet that disagrees with our proven facts



Yes. You are so right!
It is crushing. 
But everything is better learned by making a few mistakes right? 
That’s how WE become the TEACHERS.
But that’s how THEY stay rich! ???


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## ZEROPILOT

Chefdenoel10 said:


> Yes. You are so right!
> It is crushing.
> But everything is better learned by making a few mistakes right?
> That’s how WE become the TEACHERS.
> But that’s how THEY stay rich! ???


THEY could also get educated and sell the correct items and still be rich.


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## ZEROPILOT

I joined the CHAMELEON FORUM after I had purchased 2 Chameleons and was given a third.
I had my enclosures, lamps, misters, humidifiers, drainage systems and plants all set up.
I posted some photos....
Yep!
ALL WRONG


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## Chefdenoel10

ZEROPILOT said:


> I joined the CHAMELEON FORUM after I had purchased 2 Chameleons and was given a third.
> I had my enclosures, lamps, misters, humidifiers, drainage systems and plants all set up.
> I posted some photos....
> Yep!
> ALL WRONG



I did the same thing. But problem for me is 
I had been doing the wrong thing FOR YEARS! Now all I can do is be plagued with guilt for my babies shell not being flat.
I would love to go back and fix it all....??


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## Zaya30pLean

Valuable information! Thank you for doing the experiment!


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## ZEROPILOT

I'll get my un scientific test of T8 5.0 tubes up ASAP


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## wellington

Chefdenoel10 said:


> I did the same thing. But problem for me is
> I had been doing the wrong thing FOR YEARS! Now all I can do is be plagued with guilt for my babies shell not being flat.
> I would love to go back and fix it all....??


You can't blame yourself. This forum keeps learning too. When I first joined, I hadn't had my tortoise very long. The high humidity was still not excepted by most of the long time members. Lots of fighting over it. Don't think the closed chamber was introduced yet, just the high humidity. Also at that time the MVB were the best thing ever. Nothing but high praise about them. Of course, that's what I used and did the high humidity. 
I got a pyramided tortoise. Then closed chamber finally came in. Too late for my now adult tortoises but not my clutches. Still using the great MVB and closed chamber high humidity. What did I get, yep pyramided tort. Finally the truth about the MVB was discovered. Well too late for me. I only have adults and no more breeding. 
So you see, only those joining and starting out now, will have ALL the info needed to raise smooth tortoises. 
Of course no fault to anyone or the forum. That's just how the discoveries played out. 
I would like Tom to go back and discover everything at once and me go back and be able to follow all of it at the same time lol.


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## ZEROPILOT

wellington said:


> You can't blame yourself. This forum keeps learning too. When I first joined, I hadn't had my tortoise very long. The high humidity was still not excepted by most of the long time members. Lots of fighting over it. Don't think the closed chamber was introduced yet, just the high humidity. Also at that time the MVB were the best thing ever. Nothing but high praise about them. Of course, that's what I used and did the high humidity.
> I got a pyramided tortoise. Then closed chamber finally came in. Too late for my now adult tortoises but not my clutches. Still using the great MVB and closed chamber high humidity. What did I get, yep pyramided tort. Finally the truth about the MVB was discovered. Well too late for me. I only have adults and no more breeding.
> So you see, only those joining and starting out now, will have ALL the info needed to raise smooth tortoises.
> Of course no fault to anyone or the forum. That's just how the discoveries played out.
> I would like Tom to go back and discover everything at once and me go back and be able to follow all of it at the same time lol.


I hope we can save a few newer members from spending all of the money and wasting all of that time on the old ways of tortoise keeping.
I myself only became a T5 convert less than 2 years ago.
I've got a stack of extra T8 stuff.


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## ZenHerper

wellington said:


> You can't blame yourself. This forum keeps learning too. When I first joined, I hadn't had my tortoise very long. The high humidity was still not excepted by most of the long time members. Lots of fighting over it. Don't think the closed chamber was introduced yet, just the high humidity. Also at that time the MVB were the best thing ever. Nothing but high praise about them. Of course, that's what I used and did the high humidity.
> I got a pyramided tortoise. Then closed chamber finally came in. Too late for my now adult tortoises but not my clutches. Still using the great MVB and closed chamber high humidity. What did I get, yep pyramided tort. Finally the truth about the MVB was discovered. Well too late for me. I only have adults and no more breeding.
> So you see, only those joining and starting out now, will have ALL the info needed to raise smooth tortoises.
> Of course no fault to anyone or the forum. That's just how the discoveries played out.
> I would like Tom to go back and discover everything at once and me go back and be able to follow all of it at the same time lol.



Road trip!
Who wants Pop Rocks? 
*_licks pencil_*


https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1361-6382/aba4bc/pdf


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