# HELP! (Ants)



## Angi (Sep 21, 2015)

I am so over come with sadness I can hardly breath, so please be patient with me.
Last night I put my CDTs to bed. They have out door heated pens. This morning a couple were out and I threw them hibiscus to munch while I made up some muzuri. When I brought the muzuri out another tort came out and started eating. The 4th did not come out so I got him out and he was had ants all over him. They ate his eyes and he is dead. Why would this happen? What do I do to keep it from happening to the other three?
They were in a new hide. with heat. I used a plastic deck box and cut a hole in it for them to go in and out. He was out last night and I put him in there. He looked fine last night. I always hold them up and look at their faces before I put them in. I am in San Diego so it is pretty warm The substrate is coconut coir and hay


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## Yvonne G (Sep 21, 2015)

Aw, darn it. This is a terrible thing to have happen. There doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason to why ants attack. I've had the ants streaming by a tortoise on their way through the yard, and totally ignore the tortoise. Then I've found tortoises with ants all over them being bitten. I always try to locate the ant colony and poison it, but there are so many it's impossible to find them all.

For the time being, you must keep your tortoises in the house at night. Put food grade diatomaceous earth all over in the tortoise yard, especially in the burrow. It won't harm the tortoises.

I also spray the outside of all my tortoise fences at ground level, with Raid or other ant poison. If I'm lucky enough to actually find an ant hill, I excavate it a bit so it will hold some liquid, then I pour ant poison in the little excavation, and keep pouring as it soaks in. Then I put a piece of plywood over the hill and set a brick on top to keep the tortoises away from the poison.


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## Angi (Sep 21, 2015)

So now the question I had hoped to never have to ask....What do you do with a dead tort. Do I donate it to a research group, take it to a vet or just bury it?


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## Careym13 (Sep 21, 2015)

So sorry for your loss. Yvonne's suggestion is best, use FOOD GRADE diatomaceous earth. It works well and is used by many of us on this forum. I have seen only 1 single ant since I started applying it to my tort's outdoor enclosure. I put it everywhere, the perimeter included. As for what to do with your tort, I would bury it or have it cremated just as you would any other loved pet.


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## Alaskamike (Sep 21, 2015)

There is another possibility. It is possible the tortoise passed from something else , and then the ants got him. 

They can kill a small tortoise. Of course. 
But they are scavengers also. 
Sorry this happened.


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## deadheadvet (Sep 21, 2015)

I would happen to agree with Mike, Tortoise died of something else and the ants moved in. I have ants in the pens all the time and don't even worry about it. I would go nuts if I worried about every bug I saw. As far as cause of death, hard to know w/o necropsy ( too late for that)


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## Angi (Sep 21, 2015)

That is what I was thinking Mike and Deadheadvet, He didn't look sick. Now I am worried about the other 3. I do use DE everywhere. They walk right over it...the ants.


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## ascott (Sep 21, 2015)

Angi said:


> That is what I was thinking Mike and Deadheadvet, He didn't look sick. Now I am worried about the other 3. I do use DE everywhere. They walk right over it...the ants.



What kind of ants are you dealing with? Angi I am so sorry to hear about this..burial is best in my opinion as well, but bury farm from where the tortoise yard is.


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## Angi (Sep 21, 2015)

Just the little black ones Angela. I am really pretty freaked out. My pets usually die of old age. I wish I knew what he died of. They all have good appetites.


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## Tort Love (Sep 21, 2015)

So sorry to hear. I had to bring my Torts in from there out side enclosure sat it was infested with red ant they bit me all over bad I'm glad it was me and not the Torts I am so sorry


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## ascott (Sep 21, 2015)

Angi said:


> Just the little black ones Angela. I am really pretty freaked out. My pets usually die of old age. I wish I knew what he died of. They all have good appetites.



So the other three were inside the same space and no apparent issues?


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## Alaskamike (Sep 22, 2015)

I see you are in CA. Here in Florida , the red ants are actually dangerousness for babies. But not really for larger torts. There are only a few places they can bite through the thick skin. They can bite around the eyes and maybe under the legs close to the shell. 

I hate ants. Damn they are hard to control. They will swarm my box turtles food if I leave it in there too long. 

The red ants here hesitate to cross food grade dichotomous earth. But larger ants will. 

I go around the outside of my surrounds with ant killer. Some would call this dangerous , I just don't think so. It keeps them little buggers at bay. 

The kinds of ants that could kill an adult tortoise exist in Africa and South America but are not native to the U.S. At least I've never heard of it 

Animals sometimes die without warning or symptoms. We don't want to believe it , but happens to humans as well. I had a yr old dog once I found dead , took in to vet & had him examine and he determined it had a heart abnormality. No symptoms. 

I'm just saying this so you don't freak out over the ants. Do what you can to keep them at bay - that's what we all do.


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## Angi (Sep 22, 2015)

I have come to the uneducated concussion that the ant came after the death. I am thinking she/ he (Shelby was a male, but we called him a her because she was smaller than two of her brothers) I am going to look up some plants in my yard that they had not bothered with before. I will let everyone know what I find.


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## 4jean (Sep 22, 2015)

I am so sorry for your loss.


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## Keith D. (Sep 22, 2015)

I am sorry for your loss Anti. I use food grade DE here as well as when I was in California dealing with those little black ants, we always called them grease ants, don't know why just did lol. I also use a mix of borax and grape jelly, it sounds weird but it works lol. Take about a cup of borax and add jelly till it forms a thick clay like consistancy, like play dough. Then roll it into balls the size of peas and sprinkle them around the perimeter of the yard away from where pets can get them although I have never had any of my dogs eat any, but safety first you know. The ants eat it and carry it back to the queen and boom end of ant colony lol. Hope this helps a little and once again I am sorry for your loss


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## Angi (Sep 22, 2015)

Thanks for the advice and condolences everyone. Does anyone remember the name of the website that shows every plant and tells if it is edible or toxic. I can't seem to find it. I removed the two plants from the tort side of my yard that I am not sure of, but I still want to know. One was a plumeria (sp?) I am not sure how it is pronounced, the Hawaiian flower that isn't Hibiscus. The other is a spikey fern that grows like a vine or ground cover. After Shelby died I searched the yard and saw that it had gotten red balls or berries on it.


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## Keith D. (Sep 22, 2015)

Angi said:


> Thanks for the advice and condolences everyone. Does anyone remember the name of the website that shows every plant and tells if it is edible or toxic. I can't seem to find it. I removed the two plants from the tort side of my yard that I am not sure of, but I still want to know. One was a plumeria (sp?) I am not sure how it is pronounced, the Hawaiian flower that isn't Hibiscus. The other is a spikey fern that grows like a vine or ground cover. After Shelby died I searched the yard and saw that it had gotten red balls or berries on it.


The fern you mentioned is a asparagus fern and are safe for torts, the berries are mildly toxic if at all. But with ferns they may contain thiaminase, an enzyme that depletes the vitamin B complex in the body, so feed sparingly.


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## ascott (Sep 22, 2015)

Angi said:


> Thanks for the advice and condolences everyone. Does anyone remember the name of the website that shows every plant and tells if it is edible or toxic. I can't seem to find it. I removed the two plants from the tort side of my yard that I am not sure of, but I still want to know. One was a plumeria (sp?) I am not sure how it is pronounced, the Hawaiian flower that isn't Hibiscus. The other is a spikey fern that grows like a vine or ground cover. After Shelby died I searched the yard and saw that it had gotten red balls or berries on it.



Apology dear for the delay...

Angi I am using a mini tablet and have yet figured out how to paste over the link...the link is the USDA 
So type this in exact and the first sitemis it;

http://plants.usda.gov/java/noxious?rptType=State&statefips=06

Hope all pops up for you dear..


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## Angi (Sep 28, 2015)

I have another question. It might sound dumb but, here goes. I found Shelby dead in her hide. She had ants on here eyes, but I don't think that was the cause of death. All the ants are gone. Should I take all the substrate out or just the substrate where she died. It was only about a month old and it is in a large deck box. I have been putting my torts in the house at night which is a pain. The deck box is heated, but we haven't needed to turn the heat on. It has a hole cut in the side to go in and out of.


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## Angi (Sep 28, 2015)

Thanks Keith. I don't feed the fern at all. They just like to hide in it. I guess part of why it is so hard to figure out what killed him is that the have a pretty large yard to roam during the day. There were no wounds....except her eyes


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## ascott (Sep 28, 2015)

Angi said:


> I have another question. It might sound dumb but, here goes. I found Shelby dead in her hide. She had ants on here eyes, but I don't think that was the cause of death. All the ants are gone. Should I take all the substrate out or just the substrate where she died. It was only about a month old and it is in a large deck box. I have been putting my torts in the house at night which is a pain. The deck box is heated, but we haven't needed to turn the heat on. It has a hole cut in the side to go in and out of.



Tough call dear..if you feel that her passing was an isolated event and feel secure about the hide then you can try it out? So the heated hide is up on your porch/ concrete slab? Have you moved the hide and then banged around on the concrete to see if you get an ant swarm?


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## ascott (Sep 28, 2015)

Angi said:


> I have another question. It might sound dumb but, here goes. I found Shelby dead in her hide. She had ants on here eyes, but I don't think that was the cause of death. All the ants are gone. Should I take all the substrate out or just the substrate where she died. It was only about a month old and it is in a large deck box. I have been putting my torts in the house at night which is a pain. The deck box is heated, but we haven't needed to turn the heat on. It has a hole cut in the side to go in and out of.



The reason I ask is that a swarm of ants generally don't just disappear..but rather just go back underground?


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## Tort Love (Sep 29, 2015)

Is there anyway someone can take a pic of the ant killer food grade diatomaceous I looked it up there is so many and I'm afraid I will get the wrong stuff


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## Angi (Sep 30, 2015)

I have ants all over in spots. I kill then and they come back. I think everyone who doesn't have a bug service gets them. They are not the big one like I had in Ramona, just the little black ones.


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## Priscilla Tirado (Oct 4, 2015)

I am so sorry for your loss Angi


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