# Hatchling humidity: soaking vs enclosure overall



## CourtneyG (Feb 27, 2019)

So this debate is going to be aimed specifically at hatchling tortoises and the act of soaking for proper shell growth and to prevent dehydration and how many people still prefer the method of daily soaking their baby to give them their daily humidity vs having a enclosure that maintains over 60% and greater humidity levels. 

In the multiple other tortoises groups I have been in I found that most people in the UK prefer soaking their baby tortoises and a lot were very opposed to the idea of a humid enclosure and I was very adamantly fought with over that.

Here in the USA it seems to be mixed but keepers that keep a lot of tortoises or have for a while prefer the humid enclosure system.

If you have found this different or the same let me know.

I prefer humid enclosure because it provides a constant stable humidity level to allow for proper growth and to help prevent overall dehydration. It also prevents stress of removing the baby from its enclosure and putting it in a container to soak. I do provided a bowl deep enough to soak in if that is what they want, but I let them naturally do that. Not me handling them against their will.


I would like to know why you prefer either or method and why you feel that method is better than the other.


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## wellington (Feb 27, 2019)

Actually it should be humid enclosure with daily soaks. Not one or the other.


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## Tom (Feb 27, 2019)

Its not one or the other. Its both. Daily soaking does help to keep the carapace hydrated where it is growing, but the primary reason for daily soaking is to keep the baby well hydrated.

Living in a dry environment, even with 5 soaks a day, you are going to get pyramiding. The baby won't ever be dehydrated, but the carapace is still going to dry out. Believe me, I've tried...

Anytime new info comes out about anything, "the establishment" wants to fight it. They used to literally murder people for merely proposing the earth was round and not flat. The evidence is there, but some people choose to ignore it.


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## Sulcata Tortoise (Feb 27, 2019)

Tom said:


> Its not one or the other. Its both. Daily soaking does help to keep the carapace hydrated where it is growing, but the primary reason for daily soaking is to keep the baby well hydrated.
> 
> Living in a dry environment, even with 5 soaks a day, you are going to get pyramiding. The baby won't ever be dehydrated, but the carapace is still going to dry out. Believe me, I've tried...
> 
> Anytime new info comes out about anything, "the establishment" wants to fight it. They used to literally murder people for merely proposing the earth was round and not flat. The evidence is there, but some people choose to ignore it.


Hello im Not an expert.. if I understand u right u mean that since the tortoises in the wild grow mostly during monsoon season high humidity warm temps and puddles of water everywhere + a lot of rain they dont evolve pyramiding and therefore we must try to keep them like this to stimulate this we need a humid and warm enclosure + the carapace of the tort needs to be wet often so soaking is a good idea? So if I have a humid and warm enclosure + a big water bowl easy to access and my tort uses it often + I have a rain system that sprays the whole enclosure (carapace of tort) every hour would soaking still be needed ? And if I would let the humidity drop and let the enclosure dry out and my tort would only eat dry grasses so grow more slowly maybe even sleep for some months in his hide would there still be pyramiding? I mean in the wild there is no one who collects all the torts and baths them again I'm no expert or anything and I'm actually soaking my tort daily + have a humid hide but I'm wondering and would like some information as I saw on ur posts u seem to have experience and I'm sorry for writing all over and yes sorry but English is not my first language thank u kind gentlemen [emoji16]


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## Toddrickfl1 (Feb 27, 2019)

Sulcata Tortoise said:


> Hello im Not an expert.. if I understand u right u mean that since the tortoises in the wild grow mostly during monsoon season high humidity warm temps and puddles of water everywhere + a lot of rain they dont evolve pyramiding and therefore we must try to keep them like this to stimulate this we need a humid and warm enclosure + the carapace of the tort needs to be wet often so soaking is a good idea? So if I have a humid and warm enclosure + a big water bowl easy to access and my tort uses it often + I have a rain system that sprays the whole enclosure (carapace of tort) every hour would soaking still be needed ? And if I would let the humidity drop and let the enclosure dry out and my tort would only eat dry grasses so grow more slowly maybe even sleep for some months in his hide would there still be pyramiding? I mean in the wild there is no one who collects all the torts and baths them again I'm no expert or anything and I'm actually soaking my tort daily + have a humid hide but I'm wondering and would like some information as I saw on ur posts u seem to have experience and I'm sorry for writing all over and yes sorry but English is not my first language thank u kind gentlemen


Nobody gathers them up and makes sure they're hydrated in the wild no, but baby tortoises have the instinct or are preprogrammed if you will to stay hidden for the first few years of their life in leaf litter, burrows, etc. There is no air circulation in these places they hide so humidity stays constant. At least this is what I've gathered.


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## Tom (Feb 27, 2019)

Sulcata Tortoise said:


> Hello im Not an expert.. if I understand u right u mean that since the tortoises in the wild grow mostly during monsoon season high humidity warm temps and puddles of water everywhere + a lot of rain they dont evolve pyramiding and therefore we must try to keep them like this to stimulate this we need a humid and warm enclosure + the carapace of the tort needs to be wet often so soaking is a good idea? So if I have a humid and warm enclosure + a big water bowl easy to access and my tort uses it often + I have a rain system that sprays the whole enclosure (carapace of tort) every hour would soaking still be needed ? And if I would let the humidity drop and let the enclosure dry out and my tort would only eat dry grasses so grow more slowly maybe even sleep for some months in his hide would there still be pyramiding? I mean in the wild there is no one who collects all the torts and baths them again I'm no expert or anything and I'm actually soaking my tort daily + have a humid hide but I'm wondering and would like some information as I saw on ur posts u seem to have experience and I'm sorry for writing all over and yes sorry but English is not my first language thank u kind gentlemen [emoji16]


 In the wild they spend 95% of their lives in warm humid burrows, underground.

Babies hatch at the start of the rainy season. I've not found anyone who knows what happens at the end of that rainy season. Do the little ones stay above ground when things dry out? Or do they start burrowing earlier in the wild than they generally do in our captive environments? Do they tuck into thick vegetation and wait for the rain to return? Do they walk around in the sun and eat dead dry grass with little or no growth? I don't know. No one does. Almost no babies have ever been seen, much less studied in the wild. Adults have been seen in the wild, and they are almost always underground. What this species does and how they live in the wild remains a mystery, despite our speculation and educated guessing.

Next point: I'm all for studying what happens in the wild and trying to learn from it, but our captive environments are _not_ the wild. Our best efforts to simulate whatever our impression of the wild is, usually fail and yield poor results. That is what brought us to the people who use dry substrates and only soak their tortoise once a week, if ever. People think sulcatas are a desert species, when they are not. So I say, yes, let's look at how we think they live in the wild and what the weather and climate is like over there, but lets also look at what works here and what doesn't work here. Let's look at the results of all the different growth experiments done here in our enclosures. Let's look at who is succeeding and who is failing. Let's look at which examples can be followed and duplicated by anyone anywhere in the wild and get the same positive result. In the wild, studies reveal that somewhere between 300 and 1000 babies die for every one the makes it to adulthood. That's not a statistic I want to emulate in my captive enclosures. Looking at examples of other wild animals, like the hawks we use for falconry for example, we can see that life in the wild is brutal, difficult, and often not survivable. My strategy has been to try and determine which parts of living in the wild are optimal, and duplicate those parts when it makes sense and produces a good result. Daily soaks and warm humid enclosures produce good results for baby sulcata tortoises.


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## Sulcata Tortoise (Feb 27, 2019)

Tom said:


> In the wild they spend 95% of their lives in warm humid burrows, underground.
> 
> Babies hatch at the start of the rainy season. I've not found anyone who knows what happens at the end of that rainy season. Do the little ones stay above ground when things dry out? Or do they start burrowing earlier in the wild than they generally do in our captive environments? Do they tuck into thick vegetation and wait for the rain to return? Do they walk around in the sun and eat dead dry grass with little or no growth? I don't know. No one does. Almost no babies have ever been seen, much less studied in the wild. Adults have been seen in the wild, and they are almost always underground. What this species does and how they live in the wild remains a mystery, despite our speculation and educated guessing.
> 
> Next point: I'm all for studying what happens in the wild and trying to learn from it, but our captive environments are _not_ the wild. Our best efforts to simulate whatever our impression of the wild is, usually fail and yield poor results. That is what brought us to the people who use dry substrates and only soak their tortoise once a week, if ever. People think sulcatas are a desert species, when they are not. So I say, yes, let's look at how we think they live in the wild and what the weather and climate is like over there, but lets also look at what works here and what doesn't work here. Let's look at the results of all the different growth experiments done here in our enclosures. Let's look at who is succeeding and who is failing. Let's look at which examples can be followed and duplicated by anyone anywhere in the wild and get the same positive result. In the wild, studies reveal that somewhere between 300 and 1000 babies die for every one the makes it to adulthood. That's not a statistic I want to emulate in my captive enclosures. Looking at examples of other wild animals, like the hawks we use for falconry for example, we can see that life in the wild is brutal, difficult, and often not survivable. My strategy has been to try and determine which parts of living in the wild are optimal, and duplicate those parts when it makes sense and produces a good result. Daily soaks and warm humid enclosures produce good results for baby sulcata tortoises.


Thank u Very much for taking the time to respond to my questions and text
I understand now what u mean and what seems to work for most people 
[emoji16] 
I guess in the end everyone should try the best to make sure that his/her tortoise has the healthiest life possible that said I'm totally gonna keep soaking my sulcata and keeping her humid + warm 
Thx again for the reply 
I wish u a great day [emoji217] [emoji106]


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## SweetGreekTorts (Feb 27, 2019)

I also vote for the combination of humid enclosures + daily soaks. I do that for all my babies. Here are some pictures to show my results...


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## turtlesteve (Mar 19, 2019)

My personal experience has been that high humidity makes much more of a positive impact than soaking. I had a hard time accepting it years ago because I'd frequently seen tortoises with various kinds of infection or shell rot that was claimed to be caused by excessive humidity. Since I have never had these issues occur, I tend to suspect other causes, such as the tortoise getting scrapes/abrasions while being housed in excrement.

I still soak new hatchlings, but tend to phase it out once they start growing good. I like to use multiple water dishes and/or large, shallow water dishes as I feel like it helps them find water easily and therefore drink more.

Steve


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## daniellenc (Mar 21, 2019)

I did both for the first year and then got lazy, lol. Mine loves to bask as it is so he isn't perfectly smooth but I also don't care. His cage stays above 85% humidity and he's bathed once a week.


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## Markw84 (Mar 21, 2019)

I think it is also worth considering, with this conversation, that tortoises have been around for over 100 million years. Our perspective of "how they live in the wild" is very limited in that respect. If we look at sulcatas, the area they inhabit - the Sahel - just 20,000 years ago was not a dry, arid grassland, but a quite lush area. That area has historically gone through dramatic changes on a 20,000 - 30,000 year cycle. Going from the dry Sahel like conditions we see now, to a much wetter, abundant plant life area. We tend to look at our human perspective of the last 1000 years or so, but that is only a very brief snapshot of a singly phase of what these tortoises live like "in the wild". What is normal; and best for them? The dry Sahel we see them surviving today? Or the equally present in history, rainy, wet, meadows and forests?

Tortoises have survived as species as they have the ability to adapt their lifestyles to accommodate for extreme shifts in climate, while other species die off or move to other areas. Perhaps we are mistaking their "survive the hard times" for a preference or optimal?


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