# So, you want a tortoise......



## Alaskamike (Nov 21, 2014)

So you want a tortoise …… ?

I have friends. 

Friends who come over and admire my torts, awed at their unique prehistoric appearance. We sit on the lanai and watch them gobble greens and trot across enclosures; great entertainment and curiosity.

“I want one like that”, they say, expecting me to encourage the acquisition of one of these shelled wonders – 3 of the top 4 behemoths; Leopard, Sulcata or Aldabra. Or they ask about the smaller species; red foots, Boxies, Russians and Greeks We talk about pets of youth, wild ones nursed back to health and those that didn’t make it, red-eared–sliders, our favorite dogs, exotic reptiles -odd oddities. It’s fun and wistful. 

Often they are taken back when I am less than enthusiastic. When I frown and discourage. 

“But.. but… _YOU _have them”, they protest. 

And “ Yes…” I say “but…….”

And without trying to _be_ a butt, I tell them….

“Please think about these things before you take that cute little shelled creature home”

Tortoises’ are reptiles. Seems obvious, but, reptiles are *cold blooded *creatures. They are not mammals like cats or dogs – not similar to us. Heat, sunlight, humidity are not just nice to have , they are vital to their survival – they do not internally self-regulate like we do. Their bodies take on the heat (or cold ) of the environment. So they require….
Specific *climate control*. And this is not the floor of your kitchen or breezway. 
They may be slow (except when you turn your back on them in a yard! ), but they need to roam. More *space *is needed than you dream, even for the smaller species. Despite the cramming in fish tanks or small tables in pet stores, they will not survive this treatment for long. Even a small baby needs space to explore. And what about when they are older? Can you provide a climate controlled 4’X8’ tortoise enclosure? Where would you put it?
The *cost *and effort to create a healthy environment for a tortoise far outweighs the cost of acquisition. This is point bank blunt – do you have the $ to do this? If not the money, then the building skills? Both? Because you really cannot easily buy the ready-made right thing.
It takes *EDUCATION* to do this in a reasonable way. Are you willing to read, study, experiment, ask questions and tweak care till you get it right? Or do you just wanna get a pet and hope for the best. Makes a difference what kind of person you are and what you are willing or able to invest of your own time.
These are *long lived *animals; a hundred to two- hundred years (I’m not kidding!). I’m not one who thinks in terms of ‘forever homes’, however, what are you gonna do when you can’t care for the tort any longer? Do you have a plan?
The large breeds are interesting – yes, but need *large space*. Look… you cannot raise an Aldabra or Sulcata in an Apartment. Not more than few years. One day , and very soon, you will need a house – with a large backyard; and not get freaked out ‘cause they dig up your petunias, trample the grass, wear a path along the fence, poop like a horse, knock down gates*.  Or… you will HAVE to re-home him / her. *No alternative and _Do NOT _think a zoo will take them - they have all they want. 
*Feeding them takes effort and knowledge*. Wallmart does not have what they need next to the Alpo. Store bought greens are a supplement – not a diet. Can you grow your own tortoise garden, pick weeds for them, provide the variety and nutrient they need for those prehistoric growing shells? 
These are *solitary animals*. They will not be your dog’s friend. They don’t want to cuddle with you on the couch. 
They are *vulnerable –* despite the armored shell. Can you *protect* them from becoming a chew toy? From your children dropping them? From the raccoons that roam the neighborhoods at night? From digging out of their enclosures, tunneling under the fence?
When they are sick your local vet may have limited knowledge of how to help. Can you afford a *Specialist?* What would you do? 
If you can answer these questions to your own satisfaction, then by all means adopt a tortoise. They will open a world of interest, curiosity, and fun to you that only they can. 
If not… well… 

I don’t want to _be _a butt….. but……

“Alaska” Mike


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## gustaf (Nov 21, 2014)

Well said


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## tortadise (Nov 21, 2014)

Great breakdown, I. Going to stickie this and hopeful that beginners will read through it,


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## Moozillion (Nov 21, 2014)

Well said, sir, WELL SAID!!!!


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## Tom (Nov 21, 2014)

We are very much on the same page here my friend.

You can't imagine the look of disappointment and disgust on my face when someone receives a whole lot of good advice and responds with, "Oh, I can't afford that right now..." or "Oh, I don't have that much space right now..." There is what I wanna say to that, and then there is what I actually say on a family friendly public forum. I feel so sad for the tortoises that end up with people like this. My hope is that they will eventually see the error of their ways and start doing a better job over time. I try to show them lots of examples of cheap easy ways to do it right for the tortoise.

Good thread, man. This one will get linked often, suspect I do. {Yoda voice here...}


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## Ciri (Nov 21, 2014)

I wholeheartedly agree. Well said, Mike. I have talked to many people out of getting a turtle or tortoise. Some have been just sure that they would really enjoy a hatchling, but really weren't cut out for what it would take to raise them. So I dig up and get rid of eggs right after there laid, rather than risk a population explosion. I've had to explain to people that it's just like a chicken egg on the inside when it's freshly laid. Still, some people have given me a hard time about getting rid of the eggs. 

You're right – they really can't imagine how much you have to sacrifice. When I lived in a small casita, if I had a sick animal who had to be kept indoors, or if weather didn't permit them to be outside, they had to be in the living room/dining room/kitchen area. I had to finish washing my dishes before it was time for their lights to be turned out, and I couldn't watch TV or have any lights on in that part of the casita. And if I forgot and left something I really needed in the area where they were sleeping, I had to try to tiptoe in and not wake them up. They have to come first.


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## stinax182 (Nov 21, 2014)

It really bothers me seeing so many tortoises being treated like lap dogs. Your tortoise does not like to watch tv with you or cuddle. To take him out and hold him for a bit is one thing, us humans like to show love through contact, but to imply the reason he's under the blankets as 'he likes to cuddle' when it's really 'he has no idea what is happening and feels safer hiding.' Is silly. You don't watch tv with fish because they need water.... Well tortoises need applied heat, not your body warmth, and they need to not be stressed, which is in an enclosure they're familiar with.

Also, i hate how some people hold tortoises.... WHY U HOLD HIM STRAIGHT UP?

That is all


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## booshsmummy (Jan 6, 2015)

Only my second post but I just wanted to say WELL SAID!

I fully admit that I don't know everything about tortoises. I posted about it in my introduction thread but here is my story-

My brother bought Boosh on a whim thinking he's cute and he would be fun. He said he had spoken to a vet who says he doesn't need a light all he needs is a box and a heated mat and he would be fine. Feed him anything that's green and there's nothing else he needed to know. He made no effort to find out anything else. So for the time he had Boosh he fed him on just grapes, cauliflower and nothing else. When questioned about why he didn't have the right set up, lights, substrate etc he said he couldn't afford it and that he's doing OK so why bother? He had a small box (the kind for under bed storage) and sawdust and hay (cheap hay from a pound shop, looked very dusty).

He then eventually got sick of him, realised he wasn't as "fun" as a dog, he couldn't cuddle him, he probably did cost too much. He called me and said I either took him on or he would "get rid of him". So we gave him a home. I had always said I wanted a tortoise but never actually had any plans to get one because I know they take a lot of care. But we took him on and I have spent the last few months absolutely dedicating myself to doing everything I can for him and making sure he has the home here that he needs. The day after he came to live with us I bought him the correct size tortoise table (and found him a bigger drawer as a temporary home), bought the correct lights, binned the heat mat (urgh) and read everything I could. I took him to the vet as soon as I could. I trawled the internet for someone who specialises in tortoises. He was not cheap but totally worth it. I can definitely afford everything he will need and I'm making so much effort to learn all that I can so that Boosh lives a happy and healthy life. His vet told me he's very pleased and that he's very healthy considering he had a pretty poor start.

My brother is just an example of someone who took a tortoise on with no thought and no consideration for how long he will live and how much he needs. He seemed fun at the time, he didn't care that he needed a lot of other things. I am sure there are many other people like him who just think they look fun so why not get one. I have had a few people say to me that they want one after seeing Boosh and I have said similar things to the OP- PLEASE consider everything before getting one. I absolutely love Boosh and couldn't be without him but there is a lot to know!


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## Grandpa Turtle 144 (Jan 6, 2015)

Thank you for telling your story but the real problem is those people grow up to do the same thing with their children . And to ME haveing and careing for a tort is a lot like caring for children . It's just a shame that the torts have to pay the price . But if your tort could say thank you it would . Have a great tort day !


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## booshsmummy (Jan 6, 2015)

Oh this has happened with my brother's children too (social services have had to step in recently but that's a story for another day!) It's such a shame that people don't think before having children and pets.


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## Grandpa Turtle 144 (Jan 6, 2015)

Your smart for your years ! But I would say " it's a shame people don't think . "


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## Mavrik (Jan 6, 2015)

Very, very well said sir.

It does not help either, that oftentimes people go to pet stores thinking that they will be getting top-notch amount of knowledge from the people working, only to be fed nonsense and sometimes outright lies about tortoises and tortoise care.

I was one of those "experts", trained with what I thought was the best knowledge about tortoises from one of the best pet store companies in the US. Imagine my surprise then, when I took it upon myself to do my own research on these majestic creatures, only to find out that everything I had previously was downright wrong and sometimes even hazardous to their health.

I now raise my own tortoises to the best of my ability, using knowledge gained from perusing forums such as this from people such as yourself. Keep up the good work all of you, from a newbie.


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## Falcon70 (Jan 6, 2015)

Great post! At least your being a very well informing butt...


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## kathyth (Jan 6, 2015)

Thank you for this outline regarding ownership.
If I knew how to stickie it to my posts I would.
Don't know how 
Thank you!!


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## Tidgy's Dad (Mar 10, 2015)

I rescued Tidgy and am doing my best for her and following as much advice as I can I'm learning all the time and have been since day 1. 
I have to actually go to another continent in order to get some of the essentials to make Tidgy's life as good as it can possibly be. And she is worth every penny of my transportation, purchasing and electricity costs. At least I have a fairly natural temperature and humidity for her as she is in her home country and it is easy, at least in spring and early summer to get the naturally growing foods that are best for her. 
But once a neighbour who had seen how happy and beautiful my girl is bought a tort for their child to play with (he is only 2) and despite them asking for some help and my occasional intervention, the poor thing was dead in a month. I have dissuaded others but am still feeling somewhat guilty. I can spend the time and money, but most Moroccans cannot. The mortality rate here in captivity is horrendous as far as I can see. Also in the wild of course. Very sad, but I know my girl has had at least three years of happy living that she wouldn't have done if I hadn't saved her from a place her sister died a week later and hopefully will outlive me.


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## iota (Mar 15, 2015)

Have gone through all of this in the past two weeks, this is well put. My decision was not a whim. This is something I have wanted since I was about 10 years old. Through the whole process, for me lighting was the most difficult thing to supply. 

I love to garden, and I have a huge one that has plenty of appropriate choices for my redfoot. Though I am little confused about strawberries. I haven't found a list that says just strawberries. They are usually very specific on types of strawberries. 

I have a father that is an amazing carpenter, so the table as the easy part. He got really excited when i called him to ask him if he would help me haul wood, and had a plan drawn up before I got of the phone with him. I have an AMAZING green house less than a mile away so finding things to plant in the indoor enclosure and to act as substrate were not difficult either. 

I will say to date including the turtle I've spent close to $500. I'm still looking at a getting a reptile mister to help control humidity a little better. I've not even started working on our outdoor enclosure. It is still a little too cold here. However, Pittsburgh is nice and disgustingly humid during the warm months!


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## Tidgy's Dad (Mar 17, 2015)

Good for you Iota, you seem to have the right attitude and are caring and learning.
I think strawberries are fine, but only as a treat occasionally. You are right, humidity is very important. 
Role on summer, your turtle will love the sunshine and it's good for them too.


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## Team Gomberg (Mar 17, 2015)

I've always skipped over this thread....and just _now_ finally read it. I'm glad I did! It's great!!  
Great job spelling it out :thumbsup:


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## Sheldon the russian tortoise (Mar 17, 2015)

Great advice!


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## DWB (Mar 20, 2015)

Yeah, what they said.

But I'm livin' the dream.

PS, You forgot to mention the whole "Vacation" thing.


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## hdeaver1 (Apr 26, 2015)

I have learned these things over the last year of having a tortoise. I have learned, that I am the kind to go all out and educate myself, I am a builder, I am not a fan of gardening, but I am beginning to do so for the love of my crazy Tort. At least enough to make him happy. Certain family members joke and say he must be the most well-loved, spoiled tortoise ever, but I know I am just making a suitable home for him...or at least I HOPE I am!


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## Gordi (Apr 27, 2015)

Working in the vets, it has become known that I keep tortoises and l am constantly reading and researching their needs and diet. Clients often ask and say I would love a tortoise. They are surprised when I say there are many out there needing homes, they think they are rare here in the uk. I explain that the majority that were shipped over by the millions have died. They talk about there own torts from years back, eating cake, drilling shells to tie rope, painting names and addresses on shells with toxic led paint, and when I ask where are they now they seem a little upset, once they realise we basically killed them. In some cases slowly but kill them we did. Our summers are short and most of the tortoises that have survived live in the south of England, once I go through the needs of our shelled friends and what it really involves I am pleased to say most decide that the commitment is too huge not to mention the cost, it raises the question should they be sold as pets, part of me says no, yet part of me thinks absolutely, so long as captive bred and not imported illegally , in some cases I'm sure there are more CB than there are living wild. Which has to be a godsend for species whose numbers are so low that they are at the verge of extinction in their natural habitat. We are but caretakers after all. Thankfully the internet has brought knowledge to the new and old keepers. It's not all good advice but with a little common sense we can achieve a better standard of care for our torts than we have ever done before. When looking to buy or obtain something new, be it a car or an animal, we never want to hear the negative side or the bad points, and sadly the above article and it's info gets forgotten by irresponsible uncaring breeders. The baby sulcata I have here is a case in point. Bought by inexperienced owners, who hadn't even researched what a med spur thigh even looks like, and irresponsible breeders who haven't the decency to tell the buyer what sort of spur they are spending 180.00 pounds on. And then refuse to take it back. Munch ( as it's called now) came to me in a shoe box, it was being kept in a box at night in the living room and put outside during the day I a puppy pen, no shelter no warmth nothing, luckily they bought it in as it seemed lethargic and not eating within the week of getting it, we have had a warmish couple of weeks during the day, poor thing is lucky to be alive. I have looked after sulcata and Leo's and they can do well in our climate if given the support. I know people with groups that are thriving but the costs are huge financially and emotionally. I'm attached to munch already but the reality of finding him a home in 40 years time, it worries me.


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## Tidgy's Dad (Apr 27, 2015)

Gordi said:


> Working in the vets, it has become known that I keep tortoises and l am constantly reading and researching their needs and diet. Clients often ask and say I would love a tortoise. They are surprised when I say there are many out there needing homes, they think they are rare here in the uk. I explain that the majority that were shipped over by the millions have died. They talk about there own torts from years back, eating cake, drilling shells to tie rope, painting names and addresses on shells with toxic led paint, and when I ask where are they now they seem a little upset, once they realise we basically killed them. In some cases slowly but kill them we did. Our summers are short and most of the tortoises that have survived live in the south of England, once I go through the needs of our shelled friends and what it really involves I am pleased to say most decide that the commitment is too huge not to mention the cost, it raises the question should they be sold as pets, part of me says no, yet part of me thinks absolutely, so long as captive bred and not imported illegally , in some cases I'm sure there are more CB than there are living wild. Which has to be a godsend for species whose numbers are so low that they are at the verge of extinction in their natural habitat. We are but caretakers after all. Thankfully the internet has brought knowledge to the new and old keepers. It's not all good advice but with a little common sense we can achieve a better standard of care for our torts than we have ever done before. When looking to buy or obtain something new, be it a car or an animal, we never want to hear the negative side or the bad points, and sadly the above article and it's info gets forgotten by irresponsible uncaring breeders. The baby sulcata I have here is a case in point. Bought by inexperienced owners, who hadn't even researched what a med spur thigh even looks like, and irresponsible breeders who haven't the decency to tell the buyer what sort of spur they are spending 180.00 pounds on. And then refuse to take it back. Munch ( as it's called now) came to me in a shoe box, it was being kept in a box at night in the living room and put outside during the day I a puppy pen, no shelter no warmth nothing, luckily they bought it in as it seemed lethargic and not eating within the week of getting it, we have had a warmish couple of weeks during the day, poor thing is lucky to be alive. I have looked after sulcata and Leo's and they can do well in our climate if given the support. I know people with groups that are thriving but the costs are huge financially and emotionally. I'm attached to munch already but the reality of finding him a home in 40 years time, it worries me.


As you are probably aware, the most common tortoise available in the UK is the Moroccan spur-thighed, Testudo graeca graeca. I had a couple when I was a child and I remember Blue Peter giving all sorts of what I now know to be bad advice on their care. But the captive breeding of this tortoise outside of Morocco maybe their only hope. The numbers in the wild here are dropping to critical levels. Babies are taken for sale in the markets and large adult females are still being taken and used to make fire bellows and banjos.
Some populations now consist largely of old adult males.
The export of millions to Europe may have drastically reduced the numbers in the first place, but now, the foreign populations are the best hope for the future.


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## Gordi (Apr 27, 2015)

Good old blue peter lol ... I didn't know graeca were the most common. I have two Ibera , would love some little Egyptians , running out of space though, unless I drastically reduce the hens and chop down a few trees :0/


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## Tidgy's Dad (Apr 27, 2015)

Gordi said:


> Good old blue peter lol ... I didn't know graeca were the most common. I have two Ibera , would love some little Egyptians , running out of space though, unless I drastically reduce the hens and chop down a few trees :0/


Eat the hens!
Not sure about chopping down trees, though.
I spend a lot of time discouraging people to buy torts here.
They see how happy Tidgy is and want one as a toy for their children without purchasing anything at all.
Most domestic torts here lead sorry lives and most babies don't last more than two weeks.


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## Gordi (Apr 27, 2015)

Lol .... We do !! Well the cockerels. Don't think we will be chopping trees. Although the fifty ft pear is getting dangerous when the fruits come down lol. It's such a sorry tale to hear, to have these amazing creatures suffering where you are. Two weeks !!! That's dreadful


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## mike taylor (Apr 27, 2015)

So you want a sulcata tortoise yeah ? Here's something to think about . Before and after picture of want one week gets you from two sulcatas.


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## Gordi (Apr 28, 2015)

Not quite sure where your coming from mike. Is it the sully's created enough poop to match two bags of mulch or the mulch became a pile of poop lol


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## mike taylor (Apr 28, 2015)

The mulch is full of poop, pee , and just nasty . Haha Some people don't think about the poop size of 70 lbs tortoises . They poop a lot ! You have to clean it up and do something with all the poop .


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## Alaskamike (May 4, 2015)

mike taylor said:


> The mulch is full of poop, pee , and just nasty . Haha Some people don't think about the poop size of 70 lbs tortoises . They poop a lot ! You have to clean it up and do something with all the poop .



The poop thing is funny. I was just laughing today about a huge pile my little 7lb Sulcatta left in his wake. I have to clean out his underground hide box too. They go where-ever and don't have any shame in dragging it all over And it's stinky too LOL


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## Myroli (May 6, 2015)

booshsmummy said:


> My brother is just an example of someone who took a tortoise on with no thought and no consideration for how long he will live and how much he needs. He seemed fun at the time, he didn't care that he needed a lot of other things. I am sure there are many other people like him who just think they look fun so why not get one. I have had a few people say to me that they want one after seeing Boosh and I have said similar things to the OP- PLEASE consider everything before getting one. I absolutely love Boosh and couldn't be without him but there is a lot to know!


I almost got one when I was a junior in high school when my sister and her boyfriend took me to a reptile expo, luckily they have lots of different types if reptiles and made me go home and do research first, but then my mom said no. I'm glad b/c I was not yet prepared to have one but now I am so now I have Ki


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## Tinker-Tot (May 14, 2015)

Having a tort was not something I planned on experiencing...with that being said after Tinker wandered into my life (no doubt discarded by a neighbor who grew tired or changed their minds) I decided she was mine. I took her in started doing the research and so happy I did. But after all that we have invested both time, money, and love this is not the pet for the faint at heart. I get so many comments about how much effort I put into her happiness but it's so worth it!! Thank you to all on this forum for you have truly given me the knowledge to provide the best life possible for my darling.


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## Gillian M (May 14, 2015)

Alaskamike said:


> So you want a tortoise …… ?
> 
> I have friends.
> 
> ...


 A very ineresting thread. and really good advice.I agree with you: torts reptiles not ammals, don't really give and take with you, only run for food, are not at all cuddly, and so on. Therefore, one has to take these points into consideration before getting anywhere near a tortoise.


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## mike taylor (May 14, 2015)

Alaskamike said:


> The poop thing is funny. I was just laughing today about a huge pile my little 7lb Sulcatta left in his wake. I have to clean out his underground hide box too. They go where-ever and don't have any shame in dragging it all over And it's stinky too LOL


The funny thing is all that poop came out of their night box . That's not the poop I had to pick up out of the enclosure . All tortoises do is eat, poop ,sleep, eat ,poop,sleep ,break yard stuff ,eat ,poop ,sleep ,break your fences, poop some more ,and pull on your heart strings .


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## kirsty Johnston (May 28, 2015)

Awesome post. I think it's fair to say that it's seriously under estimated how much care, money and effort a tort costs! I personally live in Scotland and the weather isn't as humid as some places in the states for example. To rectify this plus make sure my tort is getting the best quality of life I spend £200 a month ($220) on gas and electricity to ensure that the temperature are right as well as having two permanent areas the tort can live comfortably indoors and out. I'm forever seeing people trying to sell on their torts because they simply can't take care of them. Keeping them in tiny vivs, feeding them supplimented food and have terribly bad pyramiding. It's just unfair and people simply need to educate themselves before they consider buying a tort. My little fella is a member of the family and I must look like a total idiot with my garden gloves on cutting nettles and thistles at the side of the road! But for me he's all worth it and I wish people would research before making such a massive commitment


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## SeeShmemilyPlay (Jul 14, 2015)

Small torts are often seen as "disposable pets," which is terrifying. Thanks for this!


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## DaveandHeather (Jul 17, 2015)

Can anyone ID? Gopher? I live in Jacksonville fl


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## Alaskamike (Jul 17, 2015)

DaveandHeather said:


> Can anyone ID? Gopher? I live in Jacksonville fl


Yes. That's a Gopher tort. . You would be better off moving this to the General discussion area with its own thread. 
Mike


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## Big Charlie (Jul 31, 2015)

This thread makes me sad. I got Charlie at a pet store. They gave me one sheet of instructions. A combination of research and luck has resulted in a healthy 16 year old. Now I wonder what happened to his brothers and sisters. They might not have been so lucky.


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