# An hour an inch is not always applicable.



## Unique Username (Jun 25, 2018)

I’ve seen multiple people recommend an hour of sunlight for every inch a hatchling/juvenile tortoise is. I believe this recommendation originated from sulcata’s. I have seen people give this recommendation for other species (Hermann’s Russians leopards, redroots) and I just don’t think its applicable. Its not unusual for a testudo to only reach four inches after 2 years, whereas a sulcata… Just wanted clarity/thoughts on the hour an inch rule.


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## Team Gomberg (Jun 25, 2018)

I've never heard of let alone applied the hour per inch rule. 

My adult 4"-6" Russians lived outside, 24 hrs, full time.

My young 4" CDT fosters were outside 8 hours a day.

And although my leopards spent an avg 8 hour day outside bt the time they were 2yrs old & 8", it was not because of an inch per hour rule.


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## Yvonne G (Jun 25, 2018)

I've never heard that rule either. I've always heard if they get three or four hours of sun a week they don't need a UVB light, but that's really all I 've heard about sun.


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## teresaf (Jun 25, 2018)

As I've understood it the rule of thumb is maximum amount of sunlight for a young tort has been touted as an hour per inch. Any more than that and the tort won't get the hydration it needs. No it's not going to fit them all. A 12" sulcata outside 12 hours a day in certain climates would pyramid. I may have that wrong but I've heard the minimum is a couple hours per week to soak up sun in order to not have to worry about those stupid confusing lights....


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## Unique Username (Jun 25, 2018)

I've just seen it in 3 or 4 threads the last week, all by different people, and thought it was a little misinformed. I'm actually a little suprised some have never heard of it. I get the idea behind it and young sulcatas, I just wanted to clarify that outdoor time is more about the tortoises health and needs (whatever species) rather than a rule of thumb (which only really pertains to young sulcatas).


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## NorCal tortoise guy (Jun 25, 2018)

I think that rule of thumb came form Tom and yes has to do with pyramiding in young sulcatas and similar species I could be wrong though


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## katieandiggy (Jun 25, 2018)

I’ve read it a lot of times and I’ve also mentioned it in some of my posts, but only to say that I’m breaking that recommendation as my Russian comes alive when outside. Since going outside it’s a completely different tortoise. Mine goes out around 10am and in around 4pm weather dependant. 
I think it mainly applies to Sulcata’s and leopard’s due to the risk of pyramiding and also hydration. Drying them out too much is bad. I think Tom had done side by side comparisons of tortoises, one clutch that has been raised in a closed chamber with an hour of sun per inch of shell and also a clutch that was out in the sun most of the day and the results were that those in the closed chamber grew smooth and also had much better growth rates than those outside. @Tom correct me if that’s wrong.


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## WithLisa (Jun 25, 2018)

Unique Username said:


> Its not unusual for a testudo to only reach four inches after 2 years


Some Testudo kleinmannis never even get so big! And my Eastern Hermanns are 4 years old and still smaller than 4". 

But yes, I've also seen this rule - and a few others that make no sense to me (like "no hibernation before they are at least 5 years old" or "no hibernation if they didn't spend at least a whole year in the same enclosure").
Well, I don't follow most forum rules anyway, mine have been outside fulltime right from the start and hibernated every year and they are doing fine.


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## Tom (Jun 25, 2018)

I stated that as a generality. A 2" russian can dehydrate outside in the sun just as fast as a 2" sulcata. I use it in reference to very small babies of any species to counter the incorrect advice that "tortoises do better outside". Babies don't. I've done multiple side-by-side experiments that prove they don't. Or the DT care sheets that tell people to put their DT in an outdoor enclosure day and night and falsely tell people that its "good" for them. It isn't. Many of them die as a result.

I don't keep kleinmanni, so I have no idea what is good or bad for them. I have kept other Testudo species and I adjust this rule of thumb accordingly. I wouldn't put a one inch russian, hermanni or greek baby outside for more than an hour either. But by 3-4 inches, they spend most of the day outside, weather permitting. Same goes for a DT baby.

Its also climate dependent to a degree. Outside all day isn't good for any baby of any species. But a baby sulcata spending 6 hours a day outside in Fl is less damaging than a baby spending 6 hours a day outside in AZ or here.


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## BloodbucketXXL (Jun 25, 2018)

I don't keep tortoises (just turtles) so I've honestly never heard about this anyway. But I'm always skeptical about rules such as this especially when one variable is linear and the other isn't. 

Like, with turtles people are always talking about this "rule" where the minimum size enclosure is 10 gallons for ever linear inch of shell. So, for example, a 1" turtle would require 10 gallons and a 2" turtle would require 20 gallons. The problem being that tank size is linear while a turtle's growth (in relationship to its carapace length) ISN'T linear. You can double the length of a tank by making it twice as long _along one axis_, but turtles grow in 3 dimensions. A 2" turtle isn't twice as large as a 1" turtle, it's _8 times as large_ as a 1" turtle. So if you're following a "rule" that says that you can get by with _doubling_ the tank size every time your turtle gets _eight times bigger_, it's not hard to see that someone is eventually going to run into a very big problem if their turtle gets big enough. 

Again, I have to clarify that I have never heard of the hour per inch rule and therefore have no basis to say that it's wrong. But hearing it sounds really weird to me. Seeing as how time is linear while a tortoise's growth isn't. If I have a tortoise that doubles in length, and then I double the length of time that it stays in the sun, then things aren't all equal. The tortoise's surface area definitely _more than doubled_ with ever doubling of its length. So surely there has to be a point where the tortoise gets big enough where the rule no longer applies, right? The two things being tied together (time in the sunlight and the animal's SIZE) can't possibly scale up at the same rate because one is linear and the other isn't. Am I incorrect here?


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## teresaf (Jun 26, 2018)

BloodbucketXXL said:


> I don't keep tortoises (just turtles) so I've honestly never heard about this anyway. But I'm always skeptical about rules such as this especially when one variable is linear and the other isn't.
> 
> Like, with turtles people are always talking about this "rule" where the minimum size enclosure is 10 gallons for ever linear inch of shell. So, for example, a 1" turtle would require 10 gallons and a 2" turtle would require 20 gallons. The problem being that tank size is linear while a turtle's growth (in relationship to its carapace length) ISN'T linear. You can double the length of a tank by making it twice as long _along one axis_, but turtles grow in 3 dimensions. A 2" turtle isn't twice as large as a 1" turtle, it's _8 times as large_ as a 1" turtle. So if you're following a "rule" that says that you can get by with _doubling_ the tank size every time your turtle gets _eight times bigger_, it's not hard to see that someone is eventually going to run into a very big problem if their turtle gets big enough.
> 
> Again, I have to clarify that I have never heard of the hour per inch rule and therefore have no basis to say that it's wrong. But hearing it sounds really weird to me. Seeing as how time is linear while a tortoise's growth isn't. If I have a tortoise that doubles in length, and then I double the length of time that it stays in the sun, then things aren't all equal. The tortoise's surface area definitely _more than doubled_ with ever doubling of its length. So surely there has to be a point where the tortoise gets big enough where the rule no longer applies, right? The two things being tied together (time in the sunlight and the animal's SIZE) can't possibly scale up at the same rate because one is linear and the other isn't. Am I incorrect here?



I guess I shouldn't have said RULE of thumb. Just a general guideline to go by for newbies until they get the hang of general tortoise care. There is soooo much to learn when you get your first tortoises that you can't possibly learn it all at once. Bits better to have basic sunlight minimum/maximum reqirement guidelines vs having pyramided tortoises with MBD because newbies didn't know any better yet. We can't answer every question asked about tortoise care on this forum completely accurately due to time constraints so we tend to generalize a bunch and send the newbies towards the beginner mistakes threads ect....


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## daniellenc (Jun 26, 2018)

An hour an inch pertains to hatchlings not adult tortoises which has always been clearly stated on here. A hatchling requires stability in temps and humidity which is hard to maintain in many areas of the world where the climate is not ideal.


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## Toddrickfl1 (Jun 26, 2018)

Not sure about the hour and inch rule and I don't know about tortoises, but I have water turtles (sliders) that are about a yr and a half and since they were hatchlings I've given them about 4-6 hrs outside each week in the sun. Ive only used a UVB lamp briefly for a month or two in the winter. They all seem healthy and I've never had an issue with MBD.


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## teresaf (Jun 26, 2018)

Toddrickfl1 said:


> Not sure about the hour and inch rule and I don't know about tortoises, but I have water turtles (sliders) that are about a yr and a half and since they were hatchlings I've given them about 4-6 hrs outside each week in the sun. Ive only used a UVB lamp briefly for a month or two in the winter. They all seem healthy and I've never had an issue with MBD.


That's what I said above. Just a few hours a week min. Max for yound torts is about an hour per inch daily MAX as a general guideline.


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## BloodbucketXXL (Jun 26, 2018)

teresaf said:


> I guess I shouldn't have said RULE of thumb. Just a general guideline to go by for newbies until they get the hang of general tortoise care. There is soooo much to learn when you get your first tortoises that you can't possibly learn it all at once. Bits better to have basic sunlight minimum/maximum reqirement guidelines vs having pyramided tortoises with MBD because newbies didn't know any better yet. We can't answer every question asked about tortoise care on this forum completely accurately due to time constraints so we tend to generalize a bunch and send the newbies towards the beginner mistakes threads ect....




Sure, I guess I'm just pointing out that beginners really need to think about the advice that people are giving them and not just automatically take it as an absolute truth, because there's no possible way that all of these rules and guidelines are always going to be 100% correct. Something that only applies to hatchlings? Well, what exactly IS a hatchling? There's no specific moment when it stops applying, it's a matter of degree. And then there's differences in each species' unique needs, as well as differences in climate. There are so many variables involved that I don't see how most of these types of guidelines can be useful to beginners in any more than a really general sense. Meanwhile, stuff like "an hour an inch" or "ten gallons an inch" actually imply _specificity_. Those are direct mathematical relationships between variables, but there's no possible way it's that precise. Sometimes I just wonder if the way that we talk about this kind of stuff is actually confusing beginners even more.


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## daniellenc (Jun 26, 2018)

It's not meant to be taken as literal as you have implied. I think you're putting too much thought into this. Hatchlings are more fragile, and require stability in temps. Hatchling is anything under a year as most yearlings are referred to as juveniles. A younger tortoise does well with constant temps and high humidity which has been proven time and time again. Depending on where you live temps and humidity will never be constant for a keeper in Florida vs. one in Canada. So as a GENERAL thought an hour an inch regardless of climate is suitable as long as temps aren't below the recommended minimums. This means even if it's a dryer climate some natural UV is recommended and instead of over explaining about climates and making things confusing it's an easier way to explain things to newer keepers. It's not meant to be precise just a guideline until they have learned a bit more and can use their own judgement about age, size, temperature, and humidity.


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## Markw84 (Jun 26, 2018)

All my experiences have coincided with what @Tom has found and I certainly agree with the intent of this "guideline" suggestion. Young tortoises, while actively growing do better in a more controlled indoor environment. And the contrary advice that nothing is as good as being outdoors is just not correct when talking about a young, growing tortoise in certainly a temporary outdoor enclosure most can build. An outdoor enclosure simply does not provide the environment a small tortoise would ever choose to occupy if it were to survive in the wild. Now, if you were to put in a deep moist substrate covered in wet leaves, then bury the young tortoise in the shaded part of the enclosure, you would probably be good, and the tortoise happy and healthy. However, most get the idea by the "outdoors is good" advice that they need exposure to sunlight and basking and would in fact, then take a tortoise that is hiding under cover and place it in the sun trying to encourage basking. Being exposed is extremely desiccating. Internal organ function will be affected and you will find pyramiding is promoted. Perhaps if people created an enclosure more like a composting bin, or red worm farm, we could have better results for a young tortoise. But we all associate "outdoor time" with sunlight and fresh air. So we make the enclosure as we would like to see the tortoise exposed and walking about "enjoying" the outdoors. So we end up forcing the young tortoise to spend its time looking for a place to dig in and get cover and find a moist, protected hide. As it searches for such a place, we often confuse this activity for "happily exploring"!!

Consider all we've gone through trying to find the best enclosures to grow a healthy smooth tortoise. Nothing works like a completely closed system where we can maintain high humidity and constant temperature. An open table or tank or tub simply does not work as well. Why do we thing it would be any different with an outdoor enclosure? Open, just does not work as well.

Aquatics are totally different, but even there you will see some interesting similarities. When you put an aquatic outside, you are putting it in water. You give a very small basking area, but most of the enclosure is all water to stay in. When you put a young tortoise outside it is put on dry land with maybe a water dish. With an aquatic, the best basking for a hatchling or young turtle is actually hiding in plants while submereged in the water, not out on a basking rock or platform. They simply dry too fast. And if you look at what they choose on their own... when I thoroughly weeded and trimmed my entire pond area this late spring, I found 15 very young turtles dug in and hiding in the plants. I find them as I pull weeds and they come up in the root-balls. I saw none out basking with the rest of the turtles, but found there were indeed many in the entire area - just all hiding under cover.

I don't know if 1" per hour is the best guide, but it is easy for anyone to get an idea that will help them. It makes people aware of the problems of desiccating a young tortoise instead of the persistent idea that outdoors is best. For me - what I follow is about 1 hour max until they reach about 100g. Then perhaps 2 hours max until they reach about 1/3 the size of sexual maturity. Then about 4 hours max until 1/2 size of sexual maturity. At that point I can leave them out all day if in a proper outdoor enclosure with plenty of moist, hiding cover for them to push under.

But what do you tell most who don't know sexual maturity size, or the age of their tortoise? For example - I go by experience and use 16" / 16 lbs for sexual maturity size for a sulcata. For a Burmese star, I use 3000 g for a female and 1500 g for a male as guideline sizes for this purpose. But I am in the central valley of California, and have plenty of plants and cover and sprinklers in my enclosures.

So... as @daniellenc points out - there a just too many variable to every try to create a rule. But as a general guide that gets the right results and idea - 1" per hour is not a bad idea!


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## teresaf (Jun 26, 2018)

BloodbucketXXL said:


> Sure, I guess I'm just pointing out that beginners really need to think about the advice that people are giving them and not just automatically take it as an absolute truth, because there's no possible way that all of these rules and guidelines are always going to be 100% correct. Something that only applies to hatchlings? Well, what exactly IS a hatchling? There's no specific moment when it stops applying, it's a matter of degree. And then there's differences in each species' unique needs, as well as differences in climate. There are so many variables involved that I don't see how most of these types of guidelines can be useful to beginners in any more than a really general sense. Meanwhile, stuff like "an hour an inch" or "ten gallons an inch" actually imply _specificity_. Those are direct mathematical relationships between variables, but there's no possible way it's that precise. Sometimes I just wonder if the way that we talk about this kind of stuff is actually confusing beginners even more.


It's only specific if you don't put "about" in front of it....I get what you're saying. It's not written in stone because it's a VERY general guideline. We're trying to help out the most new folks that we can without asking a million questions...don't have time to ask every single newby what type tortoise, what age, what country, what grow zone...ect. Don't get me wrong, all the info they're looking for is here. They just need to read...read...read. in the meantime we're just helping them keep their torts alive and as healthy as possible without writing a BOOK.


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## Tom (Jun 26, 2018)

teresaf said:


> It's only specific if you don't put "about" in front of it...



No Teresa. I hover over and around the sunning enclosure with a stop watch and at precisely 59 minutes and 59 seconds I begin reaching for the one inch baby tortoise, so that by the time my hand reaches the baby, it has been _exactly_ one hour. At which point I rush the baby back indoors where I have a ruler waiting to make sure it hasn't grown while it was outside, and isn't actually larger than one inch now. You can imagine what a feat this is when sunning more than one or two tortoises at a time.


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## wellington (Jun 26, 2018)

BloodbucketXXL said:


> Sure, I guess I'm just pointing out that beginners really need to think about the advice that people are giving them and not just automatically take it as an absolute truth, because there's no possible way that all of these rules and guidelines are always going to be 100% correct. Something that only applies to hatchlings? Well, what exactly IS a hatchling? There's no specific moment when it stops applying, it's a matter of degree. And then there's differences in each species' unique needs, as well as differences in climate. There are so many variables involved that I don't see how most of these types of guidelines can be useful to beginners in any more than a really general sense. Meanwhile, stuff like "an hour an inch" or "ten gallons an inch" actually imply _specificity_. Those are direct mathematical relationships between variables, but there's no possible way it's that precise. Sometimes I just wonder if the way that we talk about this kind of stuff is actually confusing beginners even more.


If newbies would read older threads and participate more then a couple times, they would learn everything they would need. Everything, everything, has been stated to death. They just don't take the time to research and read and read more then one post that gives them the answer they want too see instead of what they should see. 
Members do have to remember to repeat things correctly. Then, sometimes more research or observations change and then the info will change with it. Example: the MVB used to be the best uvb bulb out and used too last a year. Well, with members purchasing uvb meters, we have learned they don't last that long and they don't give out as much uvb. Also learned they are really overly drying to the torts carapace. So, this new info is slowly spreading and new recommendations are being given. If you don't read more then a couple post/threads, don't stick around more and participate more, then a lot of info will be missed. 
In this case, it was always a recommendation of Tom's as to how long a hatchling/baby, should be kept outside. It was never suggested as a recommendation for adults, unless another member stated it wrong. Its an easy recommendation to remember and should work for them all.


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## Kapidolo Farms (Jun 26, 2018)

Tom said:


> No Teresa. I hover over and around the sunning enclosure with a stop watch and at precisely 59 minutes and 59 seconds I begin reaching for the one inch baby tortoise, so that by the time my hand reaches the baby, it has been _exactly_ one hour. At which point I rush the baby back indoors where I have a ruler waiting to make sure it hasn't grown while it was outside, and isn't actually larger than one inch now. You can imagine what a feat this is when sunning more than one or two tortoises at a time.


Sarcasm does not suite you well. IMO.


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## Tom (Jun 26, 2018)

Will said:


> Sarcasm does not suite you well. IMO.


What do you mean? I had a hearty laugh over it.


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## BloodbucketXXL (Jun 27, 2018)

I don't know. Maybe it's just me, but with lots of different types of things I've seen lots of beginners making really obvious mistakes because they're following a rule instead of thinking about why/when the rule applies. Meanwhile, there actually are going to be some HARD rules that one just plain doesn't break at all. Then on top of that there are going to be sources that hear a soft rule and repeat it as a hard rule (or vice versa), and that's not even counting the rules (hard or soft) that are just plain wrong. 

Obviously it's the job of any keeper (or anyone doing ANYTHING) to read up as much as possible in order to determine what's most correct for their particular circumstances (which in many cases may also require a healthy dose of pure trial and error). But as pointed out above, a lot of beginners don't do that. Or simply haven't had the time to do all of that yet. Ideally, when it comes to giving advice, I'd like a bit more emphasis on "to a large extent you'll just have to figure out the specifics on your own."

Of course, then you run into the opposite problem. Overemphasize to a beginner that they'll have to figure stuff out for themselves, and there's the risk of them COMPLETELY screwing things up because they think that there AREN'T any general guidelines. I've run into that problem too. Seeing a beginner ask a question on a forum and everyone replies "you can't do that because X will happen." And in at least certain cases, that's largely untrue: people do it all the time and it usually DOESN'T happen. But actually honestly ask about the likelihood of it happening, and it boils down to "we can't really talk about that because someone might get the wrong idea."

Anyway, I just feel like a lot of people may lose perspective of how utterly confusing this kind of stuff can be to beginners. And yeah, I realize that it's not really my job to be explaining the nuances to people. the information is already out there. Or if it isn't out there, the fact that it's not out there indicates that they'll have to figure it out for themselves. But I also have to sort of figure, if I'm taking that stance then there's not much point in me giving advice at all. 

Which I'm honestly starting to be more inclined to do. Sort of like a parent asking me advice about their kids, I'm increasingly feeling like I should be saying, "don't ask me, if someone has the answer then I'm not the one who should be giving it."


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## Kapidolo Farms (Jun 27, 2018)

What I have seen is that at least a few folks here and through other venues are having a first pet ever, as a tortoises. It might be someone who never even took care of a house plant. That person's interest to have a pet tortoise is their first exposure to caring for another living thing. For me that is a really grounding conversation. I've had pets all my life. I teethed on the ears of a German Shepard, I am told. All my life.

Someone who may have avoided pets because of so many other things going on, finally finds they have an interest in a tortoise. I spoken with several teens who grew up in families without pets, who want a tortoise. Maybe they weren't so scholarly either and most of high school science was a long string of blah blah blah. 

But now they have an interest in a pet tortoise and are blown away by light being in different wave lengths and some of them are actual nutrients (of a sort). That scutes are laid down sorta like epoxy and the force of the drying epoxy can bend the underlying bone ( that spins in your head). 

The desire to get it right the first time and the conflicting information can really be very depressing or anger-ing. Just like each tortoise-situation may be different, each person-situation may be different too.


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## Tom (Jun 27, 2018)

BloodbucketXXL said:


> I don't know. Maybe it's just me, but with lots of different types of things I've seen lots of beginners making really obvious mistakes because they're following a rule instead of thinking about why/when the rule applies. Meanwhile, there actually are going to be some HARD rules that one just plain doesn't break at all. Then on top of that there are going to be sources that hear a soft rule and repeat it as a hard rule (or vice versa), and that's not even counting the rules (hard or soft) that are just plain wrong.
> 
> Obviously it's the job of any keeper (or anyone doing ANYTHING) to read up as much as possible in order to determine what's most correct for their particular circumstances (which in many cases may also require a healthy dose of pure trial and error). But as pointed out above, a lot of beginners don't do that. Or simply haven't had the time to do all of that yet. Ideally, when it comes to giving advice, I'd like a bit more emphasis on "to a large extent you'll just have to figure out the specifics on your own."
> 
> ...



You make some sensible points. So what is the solution? Here is my solution: Do your best to phrase things in a simple way that most people can understand and follow. Example: Soak your baby tortoise daily. Period. Done. I could write 10 pages explaining why, and what happens if you don't, and how to do it for every size or species or individual situation, but why would I do that? Why over explain a simple concept? If someone has specific questions or wishes to do some trial and error on their own, hey, that's great. Go for. Want to discuss the concept more? Great! I'm happy to talk tortoises and explain how I came to the conclusions and assertions that I regularly make. Here is my test for this sort of condensed simple to follow instruction: If someone follows this advice will their animal be harmed? If not, then the statement is good to go for me.

The soaking argument comes to mind. Many people on this forum say it is unnecessary to soak baby tortoises every day. Some have even gone so far as to attempt to demonize the process calling it "forced soaks", as if I'm standing over my tortoise maniacally physically forcing it to stay in water and grunting with exertion with my face all screwed up as I do it. None of these people have ever answered two simple questions: Question # 1: If a new person reads my advice and soaks their tortoise daily, even though it might not "need" it, can any harm come to the tortoise?" No. No it can't. Question #2: If they follow the advice that soaking daily isn't necessary and just do it {insert time frame here…}, might harm come to that baby? Yes. Yes it can. Some people live in dry climates. Some people read the advice to let their baby be outside all day. If this person follows my advice, the baby should still survive and stay hydrated. If this person follows the other advice, the baby is likely to die. Many DT babies die of dehydration issues here in CA.

I feel no need to over complicate things and over explain simple concepts. Soak babies daily. One hour of sun per inch of baby tortoise. Use a closed chamber. House babies of tropical species in monsoon conditions. Nothing bad will happen if this simple advice is followed. Try to explain all the subtleties and nuance that has been discussed here and you will confuse people, possibly do harm to tortoises, and also lose a lot of readers. More study is welcome, but simple, easy to follow advice is good too.


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## Jay Bagley (Jun 27, 2018)

Simple versus a 2000 word essay answer, I definitely like simple better.


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## CarolM (Jun 27, 2018)

Tom said:


> No Teresa. I hover over and around the sunning enclosure with a stop watch and at precisely 59 minutes and 59 seconds I begin reaching for the one inch baby tortoise, so that by the time my hand reaches the baby, it has been _exactly_ one hour. At which point I rush the baby back indoors where I have a ruler waiting to make sure it hasn't grown while it was outside, and isn't actually larger than one inch now. You can imagine what a feat this is when sunning more than one or two tortoises at a time.


[emoji23]


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## Kapidolo Farms (Jun 28, 2018)

Jay Bagley said:


> Simple versus a 2000 word essay answer, I definitely like simple better.


Because I said so.


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## CarolM (Jun 28, 2018)

Will said:


> Because I said so.


Whahahaha. I hated it when my parents told me that. Now that is my line for my kids. I have yet to try it on my torts. Do you think it will work on them?[emoji23] [emoji23]


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## Kapidolo Farms (Jul 2, 2018)

CarolM said:


> Whahahaha. I hated it when my parents told me that. Now that is my line for my kids. I have yet to try it on my torts. Do you think it will work on them?[emoji23] [emoji23]


Kay Bagley was lamenting having to read through a 2000 word rational for husbandry issues, preferring a simpler explanation. The simplest explanation I know is "Because I said so".


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## Jay Bagley (Jul 2, 2018)

Will said:


> Kay Bagley was lamenting having to read through a 2000 word rational for husbandry issues, preferring a simpler explanation. The simplest explanation I know is "Because I said so".


Kay Bagley? That's my cousin. I was not aware she had a tortoise, this is exceptional news. If she is lamenting over one of your 2,000 word essays, I will tell her to put a smile on her face and keep reading. Even if it turns out to be a 4,000 word, I will tell her to strap in, buckle down, and read it. It will definitely benefit her and her tortoise, all joking aside on that one. The stuff you put out there is always good, and very beneficial to read.


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## Kapidolo Farms (Jul 2, 2018)

Jay Bagley said:


> Kay Bagley? That's my cousin. I was not aware she had a tortoise, this is exceptional news. If she is lamenting over one of your 2,000 word essays, I will tell her to put a smile on her face and keep reading. Even if it turns out to be a 4,000 word, I will tell her to strap in, buckle down, and read it. It will definitely benefit her and her tortoise, all joking aside on that one. The stuff you put out there is always good, and very beneficial to read.




So, I guess I need new reading glasses, or maybe I'm just tired from the weekend.


Hi Jay, I do get it that long winded explanations can turn a reader off, which is what I figured your point had been.


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## Jay Bagley (Jul 2, 2018)

Will said:


> So, I guess I need new reading glasses, or maybe I'm just tired from the weekend.
> 
> 
> Hi Jay, I do get it that long winded explanations can turn a reader off, which is what I figured your point had been.


All good, keep them coming. I really do enjoy reading them.


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## Kristy1970 (Jul 3, 2018)

HOT and humid, way south Louisiana! Feel real temp 91, 84% humidity and Daisy is loving it, when it starts to drizzle she pokes her head out from her cave! I’m waiting for it to rain, it’s been so dry so I’m soak down her out door enclosure and she loves the warm moist grass. Only in unscreened area when we are out with her, then she goes in chicken coup lol.


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## Maro2Bear (Jul 3, 2018)

Kristy1970 said:


> HOT and humid, way south Louisiana! Feel real temp 91, 84% humidity and Daisy is loving it, when it starts to drizzle she pokes her head out from her cave! I’m waiting for it to rain, it’s been so dry so I’m soak down her out door enclosure and she loves the warm moist grass. Only in unscreened area when we are out with her, then she goes in chicken coup lol.
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Pretty soon, you will need many more layers to keep your Sully enclosed!


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## Kristy1970 (Jul 3, 2018)

Maro2Bear said:


> Pretty soon, you will need many more layers to keep your Sully enclosed!



YES! this will be the only summer lol, it was just landscaping bricks I had on hand, didn’t cost anything. Husband is going to build something higher but temporary in the spring, we bought 2.5 acres but it will be about 2 years before we build and move, then she will get a nice permanent enclosure. We will build a small barn with heated humid hide for winter. I really also want a miniature donkey, so it will need to have more room, every thing I read about miniature donkeys, they need a ton of companionship so they recommend 2 lol. I’ll do lots of research, have plenty time!


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## C. Nelson (Jul 4, 2018)

Some of you might find this article as fascinating as I did. Go to TortoiseTrust.org and click on:
The Effect of Basking Lamps on the Health of Captive Tortoises and other Reptiles

In a nutshell, they show the difference of how an artificial light hits the dome of a tortoise shell versus natural light from the sun.


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## katieandiggy (Jul 4, 2018)

I’m in he U.K. and Tortoise Trust seems to be the popular site here.
I’ve read most of their articles. They kind of state the opposite with most of the care sheets than this site.
I think even the experienced people on this forum will agree with Tortoise Trust that basking lamps/spot lamps are desiccating on tortoises shells.
I did read an interesting study that they did with the plastic that UV light can penetrate. It’s cheap and they did lots of comparisons, have a read. Can be a good way to still get the UVB rays whilst in an enclosure in not so good weather.


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## C. Nelson (Jul 5, 2018)

katieandiggy said:


> I’m in he U.K. and Tortoise Trust seems to be the popular site here.
> I’ve read most of their articles. They kind of state the opposite with most of the care sheets than this site.
> I think even the experienced people on this forum will agree with Tortoise Trust that basking lamps/spot lamps are desiccating on tortoises shells.
> I did read an interesting study that they did with the plastic that UV light can penetrate. It’s cheap and they did lots of comparisons, have a read. Can be a good way to still get the UVB rays whilst in an enclosure in not so good weather.





katieandiggy said:


> I’m in he U.K. and Tortoise Trust seems to be the popular site here.
> I’ve read most of their articles. They kind of state the opposite with most of the care sheets than this site.
> I think even the experienced people on this forum will agree with Tortoise Trust that basking lamps/spot lamps are desiccating on tortoises shells.
> I did read an interesting study that they did with the plastic that UV light can penetrate. It’s cheap and they did lots of comparisons, have a read. Can be a good way to still get the UVB rays whilst in an enclosure in not so good weather.




I noticed that their advice is way off too! Look at some of the habitats- I fear for the hatchlings that might get stuck in those huge rocks. I am going to look into the plastic that UV can penetrate. Haven't been able to find that on their website. Do you remember the title?


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