# florida breeder rule/law



## xXtortoiseloverXx (Aug 3, 2015)

hi guys i am thinking maybe one day i will sell my star tortoise ,i am living in Florida,so do i need class 3 wildlife license? and what about the 4'' rule? just read this thing http://www.reptiday.com/florida.html sounds like vendor needs license ,but what about private selling in forum? any info will be appreciated . thanks


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## tortadise (Aug 3, 2015)

It doesn't appear that elegans are listed or regulated in Florida. 
http://m.myfwc.com/wildlifehabitats/nonnatives/reptiles/

4" law is purely for commercial purposes. Technically the sale is considered commercial. Most sellers have a clause that states they are "only for sale for educational, scientific purposes only" it's kinda loophole but it's kinda not. Is there any reason to not grow them up beyond 4" before selling them?


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## ZEROPILOT (Aug 3, 2015)

tortadise said:


> It doesn't appear that elegans are listed or regulated in Florida.
> http://m.myfwc.com/wildlifehabitats/nonnatives/reptiles/
> 
> 4" law is purely for commercial purposes. Technically the sale is considered commercial. Most sellers have a clause that states they are "only for sale for educational, scientific purposes only" it's kinda loophole but it's kinda not. Is there any reason to not grow them up beyond 4" before selling them?


As a Floridian, I can sadly report that the 4" thing is viewed as a joke...at best!


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## tortadise (Aug 3, 2015)

ZEROPILOT said:


> As a Floridian, I can sadly report that the 4" thing is viewed as a joke...at best!


Yeah pretty much. It's a USDA regulation however which makes it federal and all states must abide by it. I'd say personal individuals selling should keep it in mind but not worry about too much about it.


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## xXtortoiseloverXx (Aug 3, 2015)

tortadise said:


> It doesn't appear that elegans are listed or regulated in Florida.
> http://m.myfwc.com/wildlifehabitats/nonnatives/reptiles/
> 
> 4" law is purely for commercial purposes. Technically the sale is considered commercial. Most sellers have a clause that states they are "only for sale for educational, scientific purposes only" it's kinda loophole but it's kinda not. Is there any reason to not grow them up beyond 4" before selling them?


thanks for the reply,so Indian star tortoise is not on that list means i don't need license to sell right ? there is no problem for me to grow them to 4 inch before selling ,but i am just curious about that 4'' rule. thanks again.


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## tortadise (Aug 3, 2015)

xXtortoiseloverXx said:


> thanks for the reply,so Indian star tortoise is not on that list means i don't need license to sell right ? there is no problem for me to grow them to 4 inch before selling ,but i am just curious about that 4'' rule. thanks again.


That's correct. They're not regulated by Florida or the United States within the country. Importing them in is a different ball game. Your good to go. In the future though make sure to always check with the actual parks and wildlife website or local office. Sometimes other sites display and or consolidate the info incorrectly.


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## xXtortoiseloverXx (Aug 3, 2015)

tortadise said:


> That's correct. They're not regulated by Florida or the United States within the country. Importing them in is a different ball game. Your good to go. In the future though make sure to always check with the actual parks and wildlife website or local office. Sometimes other sites display and or consolidate the info incorrectly.


ok ,that is good to know , thanks again


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## jaizei (Aug 3, 2015)

xXtortoiseloverXx said:


> hi guys i am thinking maybe one day i will sell my star tortoise ,i am living in Florida,so do i need class 3 wildlife license? and what about the 4'' rule? just read this thing http://www.reptiday.com/florida.html sounds like vendor needs license ,but what about private selling in forum? any info will be appreciated . thanks



Would you just be selling the one tortoise? 




tortadise said:


> It doesn't appear that elegans are listed or regulated in Florida.
> http://m.myfwc.com/wildlifehabitats/nonnatives/reptiles/
> 
> 4" law is purely for commercial purposes. Technically the sale is considered commercial. Most sellers have a clause that states they are "only for sale for educational, scientific purposes only" it's kinda loophole but it's kinda not. Is there any reason to not grow them up beyond 4" before selling them?




From what I saw, it didn't spell it out directly. It says that no permit is required for personal possession; That's noted under the 'wildlife not requiring permit'. Under the class III section, it says that class III is everything that isn't class I or II, or specifically noted as not requiring a permit. Since the 'wildlife not requiring a permit' section says that it applies to personal possession, even the species listed there would fall under class III for exhibition or sale. The application for class III has an option for sale of nonvenomous reptiles, which makes me think it might be the way I outline.


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## tortadise (Aug 3, 2015)

jaizei said:


> Would you just be selling the one tortoise?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Isn't Florida great? Lol. It gets quite confusing indeed. We could ask some florida members. @coastal @Gerards maybe they can chime in. Or anyone else. But I'm pretty certain it's allowable.


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## Turtlepete (Aug 3, 2015)

I sell offspring every year in Florida. All you need to do is apply for the Class 3 license. Quite a simple process. I also sold them for years on end, openly on local classifieds without ever having any issues. Eventually I decided to be smart and get the proper permits, but you can get away without out.

When in doubt…do no look at the Florida F&W website. Contact them directly with any legal questions.

Just an FYI, as Jaezi mentioned, technically everything not in the small list of animals not requiring a permit DOES require a class 3 personal possession permit. Quite simple permit to obtain that just requires filling out a form and sending in some money (its the government, right?)


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## tortadise (Aug 3, 2015)

Turtlepete said:


> I sell offspring every year in Florida. All you need to do is apply for the Class 3 license. Quite a simple process. I also sold them for years on end, openly on local classifieds without ever having any issues. Eventually I decided to be smart and get the proper permits, but you can get away without out.
> 
> When in doubt…do no look at the Florida F&W website. Contact them directly with any legal questions.
> 
> Just an FYI, as Jaezi mentioned, technically everything not in the small list of animals not requiring a permit DOES require a class 3 personal possession permit. Quite simple permit to obtain that just requires filling out a form and sending in some money (its the government, right?)


Man. I was little to no help at all in this thread. So even for redfoots or leopards you must obtain a class 3 possesion permit too?


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## turtlemanfla88 (Aug 3, 2015)

turtlepete is right if you sell 1 tortoise you need your class 3 permit and if you display you also need a permit and this permit covers you for both. Now if you just keep and breed just turtles you can get an aquaculture license that covers you and falls under the department of Agriculture also, covers amphibians and some crocodilians that is $100 while class 3 is $50. I wish they would move tortoises under the department of Agriculture.
Kelly you are correct even for redfoots and leopards. That means when little **** or Jane sulcata gets to big and they sell it FWC can bust them or mom or Dad without class 3.


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## Turtlepete (Aug 3, 2015)

tortadise said:


> Man. I was little to no help at all in this thread. So even for redfoots or leopards you must obtain a class 3 possesion permit too?



"Technically"

There is basically a list of maybe 20-30 animals that you need no permitting for whatsoever. Stuff like small birds, hamsters, guinea pigs, ferrets; your most common household pets. Everything not on that list, or on class 1 or class 2, you technically are supposed to have a permit for.

Nobody is ever going to give you trouble over it though. I've seen macrochelys and FL boxies for sale openly on local craigslist ads dozens of times. Heck, they didn't even care when I contacted them directly about a gopher tortoise in my care. F&W around here generally seems more concerned with hunting violations. And busting kayakers for enjoying themselves. (Don't get me started)


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## mike taylor (Aug 3, 2015)

You need to check with Parks and Wildlife and the county within jurisdiction in which you live in .


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## xXtortoiseloverXx (Aug 3, 2015)

jaizei said:


> Would you just be selling the one tortoise?



sorry should be tortoiseS ,lol


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## xXtortoiseloverXx (Aug 3, 2015)

Turtlepete said:


> I sell offspring every year in Florida. All you need to do is apply for the Class 3 license. Quite a simple process. I also sold them for years on end, openly on local classifieds without ever having any issues. Eventually I decided to be smart and get the proper permits, but you can get away without out.
> 
> When in doubt…do no look at the Florida F&W website. Contact them directly with any legal questions.
> 
> Just an FYI, as Jaezi mentioned, technically everything not in the small list of animals not requiring a permit DOES require a class 3 personal possession permit. Quite simple permit to obtain that just requires filling out a form and sending in some money (its the government, right?)


i think i am gonna get a class 3 license when i start selling my indian star tortoises,just wanna be 100% legal.thanks for the reply


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## Tidgy's Dad (Aug 6, 2015)

Turtlepete said:


> "Technically"
> 
> There is basically a list of maybe 20-30 animals that you need no permitting for whatsoever. Stuff like small birds, hamsters, guinea pigs, ferrets; your most common household pets. Everything not on that list, or on class 1 or class 2, you technically are supposed to have a permit for.
> 
> Nobody is ever going to give you trouble over it though. I've seen macrochelys and FL boxies for sale openly on local craigslist ads dozens of times. Heck, they didn't even care when I contacted them directly about a gopher tortoise in my care. F&W around here generally seems more concerned with hunting violations. And busting kayakers for enjoying themselves. (Don't get me started)


So if you're kayaking with your tortoise, you may have a problem ?


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## xXtortoiseloverXx (Sep 25, 2017)

What about selling to my friends , so I need license for that too?


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## wellington (Sep 25, 2017)

xXtortoiseloverXx said:


> What about selling to my friends , so I need license for that too?


Just adding my two cents as I hate all the permit stuff required to do work on ones home, which btw, I barely ever get. But, if you are selling to a friend and not advertising any tortoises for sale, then they would have no idea you were selling anything. So, don't bother with a permit. Just what I would do.


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## xXtortoiseloverXx (Oct 24, 2017)

wellington said:


> Just adding my two cents as I hate all the permit stuff required to do work on ones home, which btw, I barely ever get. But, if you are selling to a friend and not advertising any tortoises for sale, then they would have no idea you were selling anything. So, don't bother with a permit. Just what I would do.



Haha


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