# Redfoot rescue now suffering from digestion problems. Diarrhea/constipation.



## pockets (Oct 20, 2013)

I made a post about a week ago regarding my tort Dima's injury: http://tortoiseforum.org/thread-81049.html

It would be helpful to review that thread to find out his living arrangements and history. His wound has healed almost completely, by the way.

The vets are all closed. I wouldn't be making this post if they weren't. If he doesn't poop by tomorrow, I'm bringing him in first thing in the morning.

Dima has been having some loose stools for about two weeks. The last time he made a healthy poop was about October 7th. His poop started becoming watery and poorly formed. We had been feeding him more fruit than usual (every day instead of every other day or every three days) and we attributed the loose stools to having too much fruit in his diet. However, a little less than a week ago, he had very strange diarrhea. It was completely opaque (brown, not white, so definitely not urates) and it was small amount. I soaked him to get the rest of it out, but he didn't seem to produce much more. Since then, he has not pooped at all. I think he hasn't made any bowel movement for about five days. I can't be sure if he has urinated or not because he usually does so in the soaks, and we've been soaking him about twice a day, so he hasn't peed at all in his litter box.

His behavior is supposedly normal. I say "supposedly" because I am often paranoid about the health of my animals, everyone else who lives with us has stated he isn't behaving any differently than he usually does.

He has absolutely no problems eating. He still walks around the house often, although I feel he isn't raising his rear as high as he usually does when he walks. He is still very social, chasing us while we're in the kitchen so we give him a snack, crawling up to me and nuzzling against me, and generally following people around.

I have several hypotheses about what is going on, but I'm not an expert:
-Considering the loose stools that he had been having and the diarrhea, he could have completely emptied his bowels. It might take some time to fully form his stools in order to pass them, thus explaining the constipation.
-A flagellate infection. This would explain the runs, but as far as I know, not the constipation. I could be wrong, the people of this forum know much more than I do, so your input is greatly appreciated!
-A parasitic infection, such as worms. This could explain the constipation.
-Egg binding. This is a touchy subject for me. I had a beloved parrot pass away due to egg binding on June 27th. I know that Dima is biologically female. I rescued Dima in late 2010 when he was six months old and in terrible health, making him about three and a half years-old, so I'm not sure if oviposition is even possible for him yet, but it could explain the constipation.
-Finally, bowel obstruction, or maybe impaction. While he is outside, I often see him sniffing rocks. I caught him biting one, but he spat it out. I'm extremely worried that he swallowed one, so I've been supervising him while he's outside.

Things I have done since Friday night:
-Raised the humidity and temperature of the house.
-Given him two soaks daily, warm water up to his chin, about 20-30 minutes per soak.
-Fed him fiber-rich foods, such as hay, to speed up the digestion process.
-Allowed him outside (supervised) for 10 hours of sunlight so he can metabolize the nutrients. Yes, it's exhausting, but I love him dearly.

What could be going on? What else should I do?

I've heard pumpkin is good for tort constipation. I'll be getting some later today.


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## Sulcata_Sandy (Oct 20, 2013)

What area are you? I might be able to call in a favor for you depending on location. I have DVMs and tech friends all over.

Pumpkin...definitely. The high fibre "scours" the lower bowel and helps flush internal parasites. The fibre also helps with digestion and passage of feces.

For any female reptile I strongly recommend a radiograph to rule out egg binding. If she's gravid, well...you know the potential outcome. One of our own DVMs recently lost his Beardie to gravidity.

Next time she passes anything, save it in a ziplock, and refrigerate. Have them send to their reference lab (Antech or Idexx are most common) and run a "Fecal O&P plus Giardia ELISA". A bit more costly, but you will get accurate results.

Deworming with Panacur (Fenbendazole) is a good idea. The Chelonian published dose is 50mg/kg. repeat in 11 days for pinworms, 14 days for all else. And Fenbendaole does treat most strains of Giardia and Cryptosporidium.

Husbandry suggestions: increase temps 5-10Â°
Soak twice daily 
Stop fruit altogether and increase fibre.
There is an OTC product for reptiles that replenishes gut flora. I will find the name, as I have also been considering keeping some on hand for rescues and hospital patients that may need it.

Hope this helps! And glad her wound healed. You did great!!


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## pockets (Oct 20, 2013)

I am in the Pasadena area, Southern California. I'm willing to drive to Los Angeles for treatment if it's superior to the vets we have here, please do tell me if there's anyone you recommend in that area!

My biggest fear would definitely be egg binding. Granted, he hasn't been displaying any nesting behaviors, but it's still worthy of concern. I really hope it isn't egg binding. Is there any way to safely prevent egg production in female torts?

What fiber should I give to him? Is pumpkin sufficient? Hay? Should the pumpkin be cooked or raw?

Would deworming him now be dangerous if worms are not actually the culprit?

I am hoping to bring him to the vet tomorrow, first thing in the morning. Should I get Panacur now or wait for the vet?

Thanks a bunch for the help!


I did some research and it seems that female redfoots usually begin laying eggs when they reach a carapace length of 9 inches or so. Dima is currently 7 inches. Is it still possible for him to be gravid?


WONDERFUL NEWS!!!

Dima is pooping!

The poop is definitely more solid than it was before, almost normal. It is a bit wet, and there are some bubbles in it, but I'm glad he pooped at all!

The poop is greener than it usually is. I might even provide photos if people would like to see it (doubt it, but the offer is there). I'd like to know if it looks healthy enough for me to keep him at home, or if a vet visit should still be a priority.

I'm overjoyed right now, I think I understand why new mothers are so interested in their infant's pooping habits.


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## Madkins007 (Oct 20, 2013)

Poop fetish is a common thing for tortoise keepers, but the thing to watch out for is that you not read too much into things. Poop reflects care and diet. Lots of sweet fruits and relatively low fiber? Loose and brownish. Good balance of sweet and other fruits, fiber, etc. is greenish and firm. Coolness, dryness, a short-term 'bug', stress, transitioning between seasons, and lots more can disrupt stuff.

Just as a side note- asking us to read a different thread for back story means we have to invest more time that we may not have. I don't get on as much as I used to or would always like to, and the backlog I develop makes it hard to do that. So if you already explained all this stuff, I apologize!


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## pockets (Oct 20, 2013)

Not reading the previous thread is absolutely no problem, it just explained his previous ailments and housing situation. Nothing has changed, so this is likely a bug.

A few hours ago, he refused a meal for the first time in years, which made me panic. I soaked him and he pooped some more, although the poop was much looser, greener, and there were pieces of undigested grass and plant matter. He produced about two days worth of poop, so I'm going to try and encourage him to get the rest out. He refused food again after pooping and walked away, but within seconds he ran back and devoured it. He was very sedentary before pooping, now he's practically climbing up the walls.

This is definitely an improvement, but I'm still going to take him to a vet. I'm hoping to catch a fecal sample tomorrow and bring it in so they can determine the best course of action. The indigestion is really worrying me.


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## Laura (Oct 20, 2013)

blockage , parasites or dietary...


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## pockets (Oct 23, 2013)

It was a blockage!

Tuesday morning, I soaked Dima for about 20 minutes with no success. I added more warm water to his soak and about five minutes later, he pooped out a whole acorn. It was around an inch long and a centimeter thick. He was pooping like a machine once it came out, I needed to switch his soak tub three times in ten minutes. There was more undigested grass in his poop and it all fell apart within seconds, it gradually became thicker and more compact. This afternoon, I soaked him again and he produced some slightly loose stools, but after switching the soak tub he made two large perfect poops. 

I'm going to grab a stool sample and send it in for testing. His appetite and behavior is back to normal. Hopefully this whole acorn fiasco is over.


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## BeeBee*BeeLeaves (Oct 23, 2013)

Oh my goodness. And thank goodness he pooped out a (what?) complete acorn. How do they even swallow something like that? Seriously, thank goodness the soak helped out. So happy for you. Relief. You both. Major relief!! : 0


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## pockets (Oct 24, 2013)

I think the problem is resolved!

He was waiting in front of the door to the yard this morning, but it was too cold for me to let him out...so he pooped right there on the floor. It was about four inches long and perfectly formed, no undigested grass or foreign objects. I got my stool sample, so I'm happy. He seems very relieved, he won't stay still for even a second. Proud of him. 

There are acorns all over the yard, but I never thought he would try swallowing one...I'm sad that he can't roam as freely as he used to after this. He's not going to be happy when I put a fence around him during his outdoor adventures. :/


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## mightymizz (Oct 24, 2013)

Glad to see it getting better.

How big is this redfoot? Just measure his shell from front to back if you can for reference regarding the whole acorn!


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## pockets (Oct 24, 2013)

He is about seven inches long and about four inches wide, I can't really give his shell height because of pyramiding. He is a rescue and was severely malnourished and had little to no UVB lighting for the first 6-7 months of his life, so his shell is deformed, I'm not sure what extent his organs were affected if at all...


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## mightymizz (Oct 27, 2013)

Thanks, the 7 inches part was what I was after!


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