# Large Sulcata Fence



## EllieMay (Sep 3, 2018)

I want to get a start on a large area for my Sulcatas. This is going to take me some time but my goal is to have it complete by spring.. I want to use the retaining wall blocks so that I have a strong permanent fence that improves my landscape as well as providing security for our dinosaurs Because I have multiple Sulcatas, I’m going to have multiple areas. I’m using the attached pic as a reference for what I’m planning but I’m not sure how high my wall really needs to be. I would love for some advice, ideas, suggestions... I was going to buy the first pallet of blocks today but I need to be sure that this is the best way to go because it won’t be easy to change once in place.


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## Yvonne G (Sep 3, 2018)

My experience with cinderblocks is such: If the blocks are not reinforced together in some way (rebar down through the holes and cement/grout between the bricks) the sulcata can knock them right over. Three cinderblocks isn't tall enough. If the tortoise can get his front feet on the top of the wall, he can climb over (and with the type of blocks shown in the picture, there are also back foot holds because the blocks are staggered).


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## EllieMay (Sep 3, 2018)

Yvonne G said:


> My experience with cinderblocks is such: If the blocks are not reinforced together in some way (rebar down through the holes and cement/grout between the bricks) the sulcata can knock them right over. Three cinderblocks isn't tall enough. If the tortoise can get his front feet on the top of the wall, he can climb over (and with the type of blocks shown in the picture, there are also back foot holds because the blocks are staggered).



Thanks! I started to specifically tag you and Mark because I new you had large Sulcatas... so could you share some ideas..? I did think about the back having footholds, so I was going to face them all inward so a tortoise couldn’t get to the back... these Pavestones aren’t hollow in the middle. If stacked 4 or 5 high, you think that still wouldn’t be heavy enough to hold?


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## Tom (Sep 3, 2018)

In my experience, if you raise up smaller sulcatas behind block walls, they learn that challenging the wall is futile and they never try. But if you put a new larger sulcata behind block, they will just push it over at will, until they learn to accept their confines.

With the type of block in your link, I think it will work fine as long as the blocks are stacked straight up and down and not leaned back like the pic in your first post. You could even lean them in a little bit. That will prevent the climbing. Don't leave that one inch step on any of the levels. Second thing is this: If you pile in dirt behind the blocks, they will never be able to push it over. My medium sized adults (60-90) pounds have been contained behind 18" high slumpstone walls since the late 90s. So if the blocks you are buying are 4" high, and your sulcatas are over 50 pounds, then I would go at least 4 or five blocks tall all around.

Here is a look at my enclosure. I've added to it since this old thread, but it still stands in the same spot.
https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/enclosure-expansion.38788/

For more reference, these are some enclosures at the facility of the largest sulcata producer in the country. These are stacked three or four high and no reinforcement, but look how large the enclosures are. He is known as "The King of Block Stacking" by his friends.  I see at least one active TFO member in this first pic:


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## Yvonne G (Sep 3, 2018)

Tom said:


> In my experience, if you raise up smaller sulcatas behind block walls, they learn that challenging the wall is futile and they never try. But if you put a new larger sulcata behind block, they will just push it over at will, until they learn to accept their confines.
> 
> With the type of block in your link, I think it will work fine as long as the blocks are stacked straight up and down and not leaned back like the pic in your first post. You could even lean them in a little bit. That will prevent the climbing. Don't leave that one inch step on any of the levels. Second thing is this: If you pile in dirt behind the blocks, they will never be able to push it over. My medium sized adults (60-90) pounds have been contained behind 18" high slumpstone walls since the late 90s. So if the blocks you are buying are 4" high, and your sulcatas are over 50 pounds, then I would go at least 4 or five blocks tall all around.
> 
> ...



TWO - Tom and Will!!!


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## LaLaP (Sep 3, 2018)

I have those type of blocks in my yard. They have a small lip on the underside at the back that fits snug against the top of the block beneath it. That's what causes them to be staggered perfectly. If sullys only had access to the back side of the blocks the lip would help keep them in place if pushed unless they can push up while pushing forward. I don't know their abilities just thought I mention that about those type of blocks. When I was using them to make my walls I also read that you can use masonry glue. Would that help?


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## Tom (Sep 3, 2018)

LaLaP said:


> I have those type of blocks in my yard. They have a small lip on the underside at the back that fits snug against the top of the block beneath it. That's what causes them to be staggered perfectly. If sullys only had access to the back side of the blocks the lip would help keep them in place if pushed unless they can push up while pushing forward. I don't know their abilities just thought I mention that about those type of blocks. When I was using them to make my walls I also read that you can use masonry glue. Would that help?


I have the ones with the lip too, but the ones in the link don't have it.


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## Tom (Sep 3, 2018)

Yvonne G said:


> TWO - Tom and Will!!!


I took the pic, so I'm not in it. 

There might be a long haired Grandpa in one pic too...


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## EllieMay (Sep 3, 2018)

Tom said:


> In my experience, if you raise up smaller sulcatas behind block walls, they learn that challenging the wall is futile and they never try. But if you put a new larger sulcata behind block, they will just push it over at will, until they learn to accept their confines.
> 
> With the type of block in your link, I think it will work fine as long as the blocks are stacked straight up and down and not leaned back like the pic in your first post. You could even lean them in a little bit. That will prevent the climbing. Don't leave that one inch step on any of the levels. Second thing is this: If you pile in dirt behind the blocks, they will never be able to push it over. My medium sized adults (60-90) pounds have been contained behind 18" high slumpstone walls since the late 90s. So if the blocks you are buying are 4" high, and your sulcatas are over 50 pounds, then I would go at least 4 or five blocks tall all around.
> 
> ...



Thank you very much! That is super helpful. So yours are 6” high blocks stacked 3 high in most places.. Are they just stacked or did you use something to secure? .Do you know the exact name of the blocks you used? I would rather use 6” of course because that’s less work for me. They will all grow inside this enclosure being started in it once they are big enough to be outside full time. Also, it should be large enough to deter the escape instinct a little I hope.


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## EllieMay (Sep 3, 2018)

LaLaP said:


> I have those type of blocks in my yard. They have a small lip on the underside at the back that fits snug against the top of the block beneath it. That's what causes them to be staggered perfectly. If sullys only had access to the back side of the blocks the lip would help keep them in place if pushed unless they can push up while pushing forward. I don't know their abilities just thought I mention that about those type of blocks. When I was using them to make my walls I also read that you can use masonry glue. Would that help?



Can you show me a pic of yours? Did you use the glue?


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## Kapidolo Farms (Sep 3, 2018)

Subsequent to these photos taken in 2014, most of those walls were re-laid with mortar. As an interesting side note, you might notice two people to the right in the last image Tom posted, and then you will see one of the sulcata, notice how in mass it is bigger than the person taking a picture of it. No official weight were taken, but by estimation several of the sulcata at this breeder's location are no doubt in the 275 to 325 pound range.

If you want to get invitations to go to places like this, consider joining the TTPG. It is free of most a$$holes, or as my nephew pointed out, if you don't see any a$$soles in the room that means your it. I gotta say while that may be true, I've been in rooms of over 150 chelonian people and I didn't even rank in the top 100, so as that for perspective...


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## EllieMay (Sep 3, 2018)

Will said:


> Subsequent to these photos taken in 2014, most of those walls were re-laid with mortar. As an interesting side note, you might notice two people to the right in the last image Tom posted, and then you will see one of the sulcata, notice how in mass it is bigger than the person taking a picture of it. No official weight were taken, but by estimation several of the sulcata at this breeder's location are no doubt in the 275 to 325 pound range.
> 
> If you want to get invitations to go to places like this, consider joining the TTPG. It is free of most a$$holes, or as my nephew pointed out, if you don't see any a$$soles in the room that means your it. I gotta say while that may be true, I've been in rooms of over 150 chelonian people and I didn't even rank in the top 100, so as that for perspective...



[emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]
Tell me about the TTPG or where do I look for info?


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## EllieMay (Sep 3, 2018)

So the area that I’m going to start with is 100’in length on both sides and 80’ on one end tapering to 55’ at the other.. is that large enough for 1 adult?


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## ALDABRAMAN (Sep 3, 2018)

Yvonne G said:


> My experience with cinderblocks is such: If the blocks are not reinforced together in some way (rebar down through the holes and cement/grout between the bricks) the sulcata can knock them right over. Three cinderblocks isn't tall enough. If the tortoise can get his front feet on the top of the wall, he can climb over (and with the type of blocks shown in the picture, there are also back foot holds because the blocks are staggered).



~ I agree, great points.


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## Tom (Sep 3, 2018)

EllieMay said:


> Thank you very much! That is super helpful. So yours are 6” high blocks stacked 3 high in most places.. Are they just stacked or did you use something to secure? .Do you know the exact name of the blocks you used? I would rather use 6” of course because that’s less work for me. They will all grow inside this enclosure being started in it once they are big enough to be outside full time. Also, it should be large enough to deter the escape instinct a little I hope.


They are just stacked. Slumpstone block from Home Depot. I called all over looking for a better bulk price. I was prepared to buy a whole truck load which was 10 or 11 pallets. Couldn't find a better price than HD. Even my construction friends couldn't swing a better deal.


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## EllieMay (Sep 3, 2018)

So I found these. They are 16”x 6”... tell me if you think the grooves would be enabling for climbing. They look pretty small..?? Also, does the 6,750 sq ft seem like a big enough area? I could go bigger but I’d have to get farther away from my house. If I go this size, I could have two in my immediate yard area. Reinforcing the bricks wouldn’t be a problem. I want to make sure they are safe because they wouldn’t survive outside the fence for long.


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## Tom (Sep 3, 2018)

EllieMay said:


> So I found these. They are 16”x 6”... tell me if you think the grooves would be enabling for climbing. They look pretty small..?? Also, does the 6,750 sq ft seem like a big enough area? I could go bigger but I’d have to get farther away from my house. If I go this size, I could have two in my immediate yard area. Reinforcing the bricks wouldn’t be a problem. I want to make sure they are safe because they wouldn’t survive outside the fence for long.



I've never used those, but they look vertical enough to prevent climbing for a sulcata. I wouldn't use that for a russian though.

I think 2500 sq. ft. is enough for an adult sulcata. 6750 is big.


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## LaLaP (Sep 3, 2018)

EllieMay said:


> Can you show me a pic of yours? Did you use the glue?


I didn't use the glue because I have a Russian tort and he cant move them. I just read about it when I was researching how to build it. I only have this photo of the front side but in the morning I can take a photo of the back side of the wall and what the lip looks like. You can decide if you think a sulcata could lift the blocks over the lip.
(The wall in this photo is backfilled but I have a free standing one too. I'll take pics in the morn).


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## EllieMay (Sep 4, 2018)

LaLaP said:


> View attachment 250481
> 
> I didn't use the glue because I have a Russian tort and he cant move them. I just read about it when I was researching how to build it. I only have this photo of the front side but in the morning I can take a photo of the back side of the wall and what the lip looks like. You can decide if you think a sulcata could lift the blocks over the lip.
> (The wall in this photo is backfilled but I have a free standing one too. I'll take pics in the morn).



That would be awesome! Thank you


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## EllieMay (Sep 4, 2018)

Tom said:


> I've never used those, but they look vertical enough to prevent climbing for a sulcata. I wouldn't use that for a russian though.
> 
> I think 2500 sq. ft. is enough for an adult sulcata. 6750 is big.



Thanks Tom! Big is what I’m going for. I have the room so there is no need to be lazy on their area
I’m going to delay starting for another week or so until I’ve got a firm decision in mind. If you think of anything else, let me know!


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## LaLaP (Sep 4, 2018)

Ok so I hope this helps. Photo 1 is the back of the stacked blocks. The lip has to hang over and fit snugly against the one under it. It causes them to be staggered in an over hanging way. Like an upside down stair case. The next 2 photos are of a block from the side. I'm pointing to the lip and you can see the size of it. It's not huge but enough to hold any horizontal pressure. But if there is some lifting and pushing then the block could be moved. 
Let me know if my explanation isn't clear or you have more questions.


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## Yvonne G (Sep 4, 2018)

Keep in mind that once you've given the yard over to the tortoise, you should never allow him outside of it. If they know there's more to the world on the other side of the fence, they won't be happy until they've gotten out.

I use boards. Here's my sulcata yard:




I used to have the yard divided into three sections, so that I could water two while he was on one. But as soon as I opened the gate and allowed him to the next section, he just kept after that gate and after that gate until he wrecked it. So I removed all the gates and just let him have the whole yard. The fence you see in the right of the picture doesn't fence anything off. It's open on this end. I left it there so he would have to walk around it to get out into the rest of the yard. . . exercise and sight barrier.


and this is what it looks like today. He's finally succeeded in knocking it down completely.



If you look closely, you can see him sitting in his doorway surveying his kingdom:




Dudley has never been allowed outside his yard, so he doesn't ever try to knock down the perimeter fences. Far as he knows, he now has access to the whole world.


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## EllieMay (Sep 4, 2018)

Yvonne G said:


> Keep in mind that once you've given the yard over to the tortoise, you should never allow him outside of it. If they know there's more to the world on the other side of the fence, they won't be happy until they've gotten out.
> 
> I use boards. Here's my sulcata yard:
> 
> ...



THANK YOU!! I see your point. My horses were like that too . Some animals are too smart for their own good!


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## ColaCarbonaria (Sep 7, 2018)

This keeps th sulcata out.... I tamped th foundation w sand and paverbase and I did use glue. From Lowe’s.


Full disclosure it needs another row on top though, at 60 pds he could get over it if he wanted too...


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## EllieMay (Sep 7, 2018)

ColaCarbonaria said:


> This keeps th sulcata out.... I tamped th foundation w sand and paverbase and I did use glue. From Lowe’s.
> View attachment 250814
> 
> Full disclosure it needs another row on top though, at 60 pds he could get over it if he wanted too...



Right!! I thought 20” might not be enough... thank you!


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## SULCY (Sep 18, 2018)

I would use the glue once set you can not move the blocks better than cement.


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## EllieMay (Sep 18, 2018)

SULCY said:


> I would use the glue once set you can not move the blocks better than cement.



Thanks!


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## Kaeloni (Sep 19, 2018)

Yvonne G said:


> Keep in mind that once you've given the yard over to the tortoise, you should never allow him outside of it. If they know there's more to the world on the other side of the fence, they won't be happy until they've gotten out.
> 
> I use boards. Here's my sulcata yard:
> 
> ...



I’m so glad that I saw this. We would’ve made a huge mistake. We thought we could let our big guy out into the bigger fenced in yard for a few hours a day. I will definitely not be doing that now. We will just make his area bigger before he arrives. Thanks Yvonne!


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## Kaliman1962 (Sep 19, 2018)

This is mine, i have 3 baby Leopards, this should last 4-5 years? but the ledges are on the outside , so they can't climb the wall


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