# Tortoise with bags of skin protruding next to shell in in front of back legs?? is



## MNMacAdam (May 27, 2018)

Can anyone help me understand what these bags of skin are caused by and if and what I need to do about them to care properly for my female desert tortoise Charlie? I took her to a vet several years back at considerable expense and she did not cure the problem. Told me it had something to do with her eggs as I remember. Thanks for any tips or information on this issue. MNMacAdam


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## TechnoCheese (May 27, 2018)

Welcome to the forum! We need pictures before we can help you.


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## Lyn W (May 27, 2018)

If you can post pictures then members will be able to see what the problem is - if there is one!


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## ascott (May 27, 2018)

MNMacAdam said:


> Can anyone help me understand what these bags of skin are caused by and if and what I need to do about them to care properly for my female desert tortoise Charlie? I took her to a vet several years back at considerable expense and she did not cure the problem. Told me it had something to do with her eggs as I remember. Thanks for any tips or information on this issue. MNMacAdam



Maybe she is just a fatty....but pics are needed for further input


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## MNMacAdam (May 27, 2018)

TechnoCheese said:


> Welcome to the forum! We need pictures before we can help you.


Can you send me a 1, 2, 3 list of the things I need to do to put an iPhone picture I can take of my tortoise to put on this site for you to see the bags in front of her back legs? Much appreciated!


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## TechnoCheese (May 27, 2018)

MNMacAdam said:


> Can you send me a 1, 2, 3 list of the things I need to do to put an iPhone picture I can take of my tortoise to put on this site for you to see the bags in front of her back legs? Much appreciated!



Do you have our app or are you using the website on mobile? I would recommend downloading our app to post pictures. That would make it so easy that you probably won’t need help.


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## TriciaStringer (May 27, 2018)

1. Hit upload a file
2. Hit photo library
3. Choose your picture and post


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## MNMacAdam (May 27, 2018)

TechnoCheese said:


> Do you have our app or are you using the website on mobile? I would recommend downloading our app to post pictures. That would make it so easy that you probably won’t need help.



I just took a couple of pictures with my iPhone showing the “bags” of skin up close. I just don’t know how to get it off of my iPhone and to you. I am using a MAC mini to view your website. What is your app to download pictures? I don’t have a clue. I am fairly competent with my MAC and iPhone, but am 88 years old and a bit slow with some things since having a couple of strokes a couple of October’s ago. Thanks for helping me get skill in using your web site set up.


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## TriciaStringer (May 27, 2018)

MNMacAdam said:


> I just took a couple of pictures with my iPhone showing the “bags” of skin up close. I just don’t know how to get it off of my iPhone and to you. I am using a MAC mini to view your website. What is your app to download pictures? I don’t have a clue. I am fairly competent with my MAC and iPhone, but am 88 years old and a bit slow with some things since having a couple of strokes a couple of October’s ago. Thanks for helping me get skill in using your web site set up.


I’m going to message you my phone number. You can text me the picture and I will post it for you.


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## TriciaStringer (May 27, 2018)

Here is Charlie.


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## orv (May 27, 2018)

TriciaStringer said:


> Here is Charlie.


 I am the caregiver to four California Desert Tortoises, including a female, at least 75 tears of age and has been in our family since 1970, and none of them displays this sort of sagging tissue. What is your tortoise's diet? Is enough space for proper exersize available? Is this display of tissue bi-lateral, or just on the one, displayed side? I hope that we are able to help; perhaps Yvonne will hellp.


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## MNMacAdam (May 28, 2018)

orv said:


> I am the caregiver to four California Desert Tortoises, including a female, at least 75 tears of age and has been in our family since 1970, and none of them displays this sort of sagging tissue. What is your tortoise's diet? Is enough space for proper exersize available? Is this display of tissue bi-lateral, or just on the one, displayed side? I hope that we are able to help; perhaps Yvonne will hellp.


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## MNMacAdam (May 28, 2018)

The skin pouches are on both sides just in front of her rear legs and mostly under the edge of her shell. She eats impatient flower clippings frequently and if given mixed frozen vegetables several times a week. She has access to ample water from the drip system for our hanging potted plants all around our patio. She is free roaming on our fenced patio area and occasionally enjoys eating grass on our green belt when I put the wire enclosure on the lawn for her to nibble on the grass. Four many years she has hibernated very well in a large cardboard box with large strips of shredded newspaper in it. Her box is kept on a table in the warmest area of our garage storage area beginning in late October until mid March here in southern California. Thanks for any insights you can give me on these small bags of flesh in front of her rear legs.


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## MNMacAdam (May 28, 2018)

TriciaStringer said:


> Here is Charlie.


I now have a JPG of Charlie on the Desktop of my computer. What are the specific steps I need to take to place this JPG in the blank spot in my profile? I can't seem to locate any information on this web site with instructions to do it. Thanks so much. MNMacAdam


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## TriciaStringer (May 28, 2018)

MNMacAdam said:


> I now have a JPG of Charlie on the Desktop of my computer. What are the specific steps I need to take to place this JPG in the blank spot in my profile? I can't seem to locate any information on this web site with instructions to do it. Thanks so much. MNMacAdam


Click on your name at the top. Find the word “Avatar” and click on it. Then click on choose avatar or upload file. Then you will pick the JPG pic. I hope this helps!


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## orv (May 28, 2018)

Back to the protrusions on your tortoise's hind legs. Do they feel solid, or perhaps fatty or liquid in nature? Regarding the area where the front legs and then over to where the neck attaches to the body: are these areas concave, or do they feel solid or perhaps fatty? Trying to do a physical examination of the tortoise is difficult when we're not present, but you can relay information to us in writing and with photographs. The tortoise appears to be very mature in the photograph you shared with us, but do you have any idea of it's actual age? Help us again with diet and exercise opportunities. How large is the space he lives in? Does he use all this space? As the areas in question are bi-lateral, I lean towards obesity rather than tumors, but I truly don't know. I hope that someone such as Yvonne will pick this up and give something of a professional diagnosis.


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## MNMacAdam (May 28, 2018)

TriciaStringer said:


> Click on your name at the top. Find the word “Avatar” and click on it. Then click on choose avatar or upload file. Then you will pick the JPG pic. I hope this helps!



Thanks for the great guidance! It is very much appreciated. I got Charlie's picture in place for now on my profile. I'll get a better one and place it there after I hopefully get the "skin bags" issue resolved.


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## Bambam1989 (May 28, 2018)

How is his mobility? Do the lumps interfere with his movements?


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## crimson_lotus (May 28, 2018)

Based on some other past threads, I'd say it's edema caused by kidney/organ failure. Try taking a blood test as soon as you can to verify!


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## Yvonne G (May 28, 2018)

Charlie is a very old tortoise. These fluid filled protrusions sometimes occur in old tortoises. It would help if you feed a more fibrous diet, grasses and weeds, plants, etc. and cut out the juicy items. crimson_lotus makes a good point and this is something to consider. At any rate, the protrusions you are seeing is fluid-filled skin, and it would be up to a vet to determine why she's retaining fluid.


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## daniellenc (May 28, 2018)

I was going to say renal failure as well. A diet change could give her some relief as it can’t be comfortable. I’d nix the frozen veggies and add better tort foods.


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## MNMacAdam (May 28, 2018)

orv said:


> Back to the protrusions on your tortoise's hind legs. Do they feel solid, or perhaps fatty or liquid in nature? Regarding the area where the front legs and then over to where the neck attaches to the body: are these areas concave, or do they feel solid or perhaps fatty? Trying to do a physical examination of the tortoise is difficult when we're not present, but you can relay information to us in writing and with photographs. The tortoise appears to be very mature in the photograph you shared with us, but do you have any idea of it's actual age? Help us again with diet and exercise opportunities. How large is the space he lives in? Does he use all this space? As the areas in question are bi-lateral, I lean towards obesity rather than tumors, but I truly don't know. I hope that someone such as Yvonne will pick this up and give something of a professional diagnosis.



Thought it best to share short “bulleted” answers to your questions regarding Protrusions *in front of*the hind legs of my tortoise for ease of reading.
· We don’t know the age of Charlie. I ended up taking her home for the summer from the school in which I was the principle of Turtle Rock School in Irvine, California. She was given to our school by a parent and no one volunteered to take her home and care for her so my family and I did. That was 40 years ago. It was 10 years ago that the protrusions showed up but the vet we took her to did not resolve the protrusions and they have remained until now. 
· The protrusions feel soft and kind of lightly filled with a bit of air.
· The areas by the front legs and by the neck are wrinkled and look like they always have. They don’t appear concaved nor do they feel solid or fatty.
· As shared, her diet is: 1. A couple of hands full of frozen mixed vegetables of diced carrots, peas, string beans, kernels of corn three times a week. 2. Flowers dropping onto the patio. 3. Clippings from our potted inpatients from time to time. 4. Various plant leaves that fall onto the patio. 5. An occasional outing on our grass greenbelt area to eat grass. 6. Occasional water melon leftovers during the summer months.
· Charlie has free roving about at will on our gated and low walled 450 sq. ft. brick patio with dirt and large pebble rock borders which she is free to dig in. There is always shade and sunshine available on this patio throughout the day which she selects from, sometimes sunning and other times resting in the shady areas.


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## MNMacAdam (May 28, 2018)

Bambam1989 said:


> How is his mobility? Do the lumps interfere with his movements?



No, not at all.


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## MNMacAdam (May 28, 2018)

No, not at all as best that I can tell.


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## MNMacAdam (May 28, 2018)

Yvonne G said:


> Charlie is a very old tortoise. These fluid filled protrusions sometimes occur in old tortoises. It would help if you feed a more fibrous diet, grasses and weeds, plants, etc. and cut out the juicy items. crimson_lotus makes a good point and this is something to consider. At any rate, the protrusions you are seeing is fluid-filled skin, and it would be up to a vet to determine why she's retaining fluid.



Appreciate your input. We will follow your suggestions except the vet visit. I took her to a local woman vet to get checked 10 years back for the "bags". All I got was an eventual bill for just under $200 for her examination, some vitamin products, and some information I did not at the time understand about "problems with her eggs". The "bags" have been with her since then.


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## domalle (May 28, 2018)

MNMacAdam said:


> Appreciate your input. We will follow your suggestions except the vet visit. I took her to a local woman vet to get checked 10 years back for the "bags". All I got was an eventual bill for just under $200 for her examination, some vitamin products, and some information I did not at the time understand about "problems with her eggs". The "bags" have been with her since then.



Yes, appropriate care can be costly. And finding the right veterinarian tortoise specialist may take a search, but your tortoise is elderly and needs professional and advisedly prompt medical care. Ten years with an uninvestigated medical condition is not in your pet's best interest no matter the cost or trouble. It is a credit to you that you have reached out for help. Good luck.


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## orv (May 28, 2018)

MNMacAdam said:


> Thought it best to share short “bulleted” answers to your questions regarding Protrusions *in front of*the hind legs of my tortoise for ease of reading.
> · We don’t know the age of Charlie. I ended up taking her home for the summer from the school in which I was the principle of Turtle Rock School in Irvine, California. She was given to our school by a parent and no one volunteered to take her home and care for her so my family and I did. That was 40 years ago. It was 10 years ago that the protrusions showed up but the vet we took her to did not resolve the protrusions and they have remained until now.
> · The protrusions feel soft and kind of lightly filled with a bit of air.
> · The areas by the front legs and by the neck are wrinkled and look like they always have. They don’t appear concaved nor do they feel solid or fatty.
> ...


 Good evening. First of all, your detailed response is appreciated. I do have some suggestions that may prolong Charlie's life. 1) refrain from feeding the frozen mixed vegetables. They contain sugars that California Desert Tortoises ( CDTs) are unable to properly digest 2) melons should be fed rarely, if at all 3) add substantually more grasses and weeds to the diet 4) make sure that there is apropriate sun for basking, along with the shade of the patio. I understand your hesistance to anotherexxpensive vet bill, but this would probably be in Charlie's best interest. By following the suggestions above as well as this forum's care sheet, you can perhaps lengthen Charlie's lifespan. By the way, qualified vet services are available. You may PM me for further guidance. We're here to help.


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## ascott (May 28, 2018)

MNMacAdam said:


> Thought it best to share short “bulleted” answers to your questions regarding Protrusions *in front of*the hind legs of my tortoise for ease of reading.
> · We don’t know the age of Charlie. I ended up taking her home for the summer from the school in which I was the principle of Turtle Rock School in Irvine, California. She was given to our school by a parent and no one volunteered to take her home and care for her so my family and I did. That was 40 years ago. It was 10 years ago that the protrusions showed up but the vet we took her to did not resolve the protrusions and they have remained until now.
> · The protrusions feel soft and kind of lightly filled with a bit of air.
> · The areas by the front legs and by the neck are wrinkled and look like they always have. They don’t appear concaved nor do they feel solid or fatty.
> ...



Does Charlie expel any urates (white chalky or toothpaste texture) in the yard that you have seen...Does the tortoise soak in water? Do you provide a shallow wallow for soaking? They do like to soak and is super beneficial.

You say that the tortoise has access to pebble size rocks in areas that the tortoise digs? Do you ever notice the tortoise ingesting the rocks? Do you see any expelled when the tortoise pees or poops?

The 450 square food area...is it primarily concrete, dirt and pebbles? Is the turf only accessible when you put the tortoise there vs the tortoise able to access it at will?

Has this tortoise ever laid eggs? may we see a pic of the bottom of the tortoise if you have a chance and opportunity?

Beautiful tortoise and lovely eyes...  Did I understand you to say you are 88 or are you saying the tort is 88?


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## MNMacAdam (May 29, 2018)

domalle said:


> Yes, appropriate care can be costly. And finding the right veterinarian tortoise specialist may take a search, but your tortoise is elderly and needs professional and advisedly prompt medical care. Ten years with an uninvestigated medical condition is not in your pet's best interest no matter the cost or trouble. It is a credit to you that you have reached out for help. Good luck.



Do you have any suggestions for vetting vets on their competence and knowledge to properly diagnose and treat and very old tortoise? Key questions to ask them? Thanks so much!


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## MNMacAdam (May 29, 2018)

ascott said:


> Does Charlie expel any urates (white chalky or toothpaste texture) in the yard that you have seen...Does the tortoise soak in water? Do you provide a shallow wallow for soaking? They do like to soak and is super beneficial.
> 
> You say that the tortoise has access to pebble size rocks in areas that the tortoise digs? Do you ever notice the tortoise ingesting the rocks? Do you see any expelled when the tortoise pees or poops?
> 
> ...



Never ingesting the rocks, they are sized too big for that. Turf only accessible when I put her on it with a small 3'X4' wire fence I built and stick in the grass sod. How do I get a picture to you from my iPhone camera? I am 88, we don't know the age of Charlie but have been told she is very old. Thanks.


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## MNMacAdam (May 29, 2018)

orv said:


> Good evening. First of all, your detailed response is appreciated. I do have some suggestions that may prolong Charlie's life. 1) refrain from feeding the frozen mixed vegetables. They contain sugars that California Desert Tortoises ( CDTs) are unable to properly digest 2) melons should be fed rarely, if at all 3) add substantually more grasses and weeds to the diet 4) make sure that there is apropriate sun for basking, along with the shade of the patio. I understand your hesistance to anotherexxpensive vet bill, but this would probably be in Charlie's best interest. By following the suggestions above as well as this forum's care sheet, you can perhaps lengthen Charlie's lifespan. By the way, qualified vet services are available. You may PM me for further guidance. We're here to help.



How do I access and get a copy of the Form's care sheet? I don't know what PM means to get further guidance from you??? I deeply appreciate your help on this.


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## Yvonne G (May 29, 2018)

Dr. Greek isn't too far from you. He's a VERY GOOD tortoise vet:

Greek & Associates Veterinary Hospital
23687 Via Del Rio
Yorba Linda, CA 92887
714-463-1190
http://gavh.net/


If you want to travel a bit, here's another very good tortoise vet:

Thomas H. Boyer, DVM
Pet Hospital of Penasquitos
9888 Carmel Mt. Road, Suite F
San Diego, CA 92129
Tel: (858) 484-3490
Fax: (858) 484-3499


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## ascott (May 29, 2018)

MNMacAdam said:


> Never ingesting the rocks, they are sized too big for that. Turf only accessible when I put her on it with a small 3'X4' wire fence I built and stick in the grass sod. How do I get a picture to you from my iPhone camera? I am 88, we don't know the age of Charlie but have been told she is very old. Thanks.



You can send me the pic to my phone and I can post....? If you would like to do that I will PM (Private message) you my phone number...is there a reason that you don't allow full access to the turf area? Do you provide someplace for Charlie to self soak ?


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## MNMacAdam (May 29, 2018)

ascott said:


> You can send me the pic to my phone and I can post....? If you would like to do that I will PM (Private message) you my phone number...is there a reason that you don't allow full access to the turf area? Do you provide someplace for Charlie to self soak ?



The turf area is outside of our condo patio home fenced patio with a gate. She is secure in this area and I only occasionally during the spring, summer and fall take her out on the common area turf and watch her carefully. What do you mean by "self soak"? Send me your email and I will take a picture of her underside and email it to you. [email protected] Thanks


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## MNMacAdam (May 29, 2018)

Bambam1989 said:


> How is his mobility? Do the lumps interfere with his movements?



Not at all! She moves around to different places on our enclosed patio safely all day long. Sometimes sunning and sometimes in the shade.


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## Toddrickfl1 (May 29, 2018)

Self soak would mean do you leave out a container of water big enough for her to get into and soak herself?


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## ascott (May 29, 2018)

MNMacAdam said:


> The turf area is outside of our condo patio home fenced patio with a gate. She is secure in this area and I only occasionally during the spring, summer and fall take her out on the common area turf and watch her carefully. What do you mean by "self soak"? Send me your email and I will take a picture of her underside and email it to you. [email protected] Thanks



Self soak, in the wild these guys will dig out a shallow spot and when it rains the tort will walk right into that shallow spot and set right in, they will soak and they will drop their head, mouth and nostrils, right up to and sometimes including their eyeballs, down into the water and will drink for long periods of time...sometimes 15 minutes, you can literally see their neck muscle pumping as they drink...it is essential for their body to work properly that they are able to flush out the old junk in their bladder with fresh clean water...they are designed to hold onto all of the old nasty moisture in their bladder until they have a good reliable source of fresh water to use to flush the old....regardless to living in the desert or your back patio...their body is designed this way and if that tort has not had the opportunity to do this at least a couple times a year then there could be some back up of bad stuff....so when I self soak I simply mean you may want to set up a large saucer (like the bottom of a large plant water soaker/bottom that catches the water) and fill it with water, place the tort right in it and do this several times until the tort catches on....some will take right to it and others would rather dig a shallow spot out of instinct....a little sprinkler that the tort can walk right through and perhaps pool up around would also be good....I have a couple of the men torts here that absolutely go bonkers for the sprinkler...it gets them out there digging about in the mud a bit and then drinking right off the ground as they would when it rains....


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## MNMacAdam (May 29, 2018)

ascott said:


> Self soak, in the wild these guys will dig out a shallow spot and when it rains the tort will walk right into that shallow spot and set right in, they will soak and they will drop their head, mouth and nostrils, right up to and sometimes including their eyeballs, down into the water and will drink for long periods of time...sometimes 15 minutes, you can literally see their neck muscle pumping as they drink...it is essential for their body to work properly that they are able to flush out the old junk in their bladder with fresh clean water...they are designed to hold onto all of the old nasty moisture in their bladder until they have a good reliable source of fresh water to use to flush the old....regardless to living in the desert or your back patio...their body is designed this way and if that tort has not had the opportunity to do this at least a couple times a year then there could be some back up of bad stuff....so when I self soak I simply mean you may want to set up a large saucer (like the bottom of a large plant water soaker/bottom that catches the water) and fill it with water, place the tort right in it and do this several times until the tort catches on....some will take right to it and others would rather dig a shallow spot out of instinct....a little sprinkler that the tort can walk right through and perhaps pool up around would also be good....I have a couple of the men torts here that absolutely go bonkers for the sprinkler...it gets them out there digging about in the mud a bit and then drinking right off the ground as they would when it rains....



Very interesting and helpful. I will set up something to let her soak a bit at times. Thanks so much for the detailed information.MM


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## MNMacAdam (May 29, 2018)

ascott said:


> Does Charlie expel any urates (white chalky or toothpaste texture) in the yard that you have seen...Does the tortoise soak in water? Do you provide a shallow wallow for soaking? They do like to soak and is super beneficial.
> 
> NOTE: She has expelled urates in past summers. Have not seen any since taking her out of hibernation in late March. I am now planning how I can provide her with soaking in water opportunities which we have never done all these years. For 13 years she had a fenced, large backyard of our last home to roam freely and eat grass and snails and other vegitation. For the last 29 years she has lived in our present Townhome patio. All these years she has has a handful of frozen vegetables given to her by my wife. My daughter and her husband suggested this as they had two tortoises which they fed vegetables in a small back yard so we figured it was OK. Can you guide me to a list of foods that have proven to be good for an old desert tortoise that is a pet in Southern California? Thanks so much. MM
> 
> ...


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## MNMacAdam (May 29, 2018)

NOTE: She has expelled urates in past summers. Have not seen any since taking her out of hibernation in late March. I am now planning how I can provide her with soaking in water opportunities which we have never done all these years. For 13 years she had a fenced, large backyard of our last home to roam freely and eat grass and snails and other vegitation. For the last 29 years she has lived in our present Townhome patio. All these years she has has a handful of frozen vegetables given to her by my wife. My daughter and her husband suggested this as they had two tortoises which they fed vegetables in a small back yard so we figured it was OK. Can you guide me to a list of foods that have proven to be good for an old desert tortoise that is a pet in Southern California? Thanks so much. MM


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## Russian Pebbles (May 30, 2018)

In the description it sounds like it is dehydrated.


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## ascott (May 30, 2018)

MNMacAdam said:


> NOTE: She has expelled urates in past summers. Have not seen any since taking her out of hibernation in late March. I am now planning how I can provide her with soaking in water opportunities which we have never done all these years. For 13 years she had a fenced, large backyard of our last home to roam freely and eat grass and snails and other vegitation. For the last 29 years she has lived in our present Townhome patio. All these years she has has a handful of frozen vegetables given to her by my wife. My daughter and her husband suggested this as they had two tortoises which they fed vegetables in a small back yard so we figured it was OK. Can you guide me to a list of foods that have proven to be good for an old desert tortoise that is a pet in Southern California? Thanks so much. MM



You can provide a variety, for example;
Radicchio
Endive
Romaine 
Red Leaf lettuce
Green Leaf lettuce
Cactus pad
Dandelion greens
These are just an example. The more variety you give the better....I would stay away from spinach and the mustard and collard greens, they are high in oxalates which I believe your tort can do without....creates more of a load on the kidneys and such. I also would stay clear of the frozen veggie offerings


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## DesertGirl (May 30, 2018)

ascott said:


> Self soak, in the wild these guys will dig out a shallow spot and when it rains the tort will walk right into that shallow spot and set right in, they will soak and they will drop their head, mouth and nostrils, right up to and sometimes including their eyeballs, down into the water and will drink for long periods of time...sometimes 15 minutes, you can literally see their neck muscle pumping as they drink...it is essential for their body to work properly that they are able to flush out the old junk in their bladder with fresh clean water...they are designed to hold onto all of the old nasty moisture in their bladder until they have a good reliable source of fresh water to use to flush the old....regardless to living in the desert or your back patio...their body is designed this way and if that tort has not had the opportunity to do this at least a couple times a year then there could be some back up of bad stuff....so when I self soak I simply mean you may want to set up a large saucer (like the bottom of a large plant water soaker/bottom that catches the water) and fill it with water, place the tort right in it and do this several times until the tort catches on....some will take right to it and others would rather dig a shallow spot out of instinct....a little sprinkler that the tort can walk right through and perhaps pool up around would also be good....I have a couple of the men torts here that absolutely go bonkers for the sprinkler...it gets them out there digging about in the mud a bit and then drinking right off the ground as they would when it rains....


Excellent description, Ascott! Thank you.


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## orv (May 31, 2018)

In your garden you may have roses (both the flowers and leaves), Gazanias, grape vine leaves (an absolute favorite of our CDTs), and ice plant (once again, flowers and "leaves""). Other weeds and succlents that are on the "safe" list and haven't been treated with pesticides or chemical fertilizers are wonderful foods as well. You've got a beautiful old gal there and I hope that there are many more years ahead for each of you.


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## MNMacAdam (May 31, 2018)

ascott said:


> You can provide a variety, for example;
> Radicchio
> Endive
> Romaine
> ...



Thanks so much!


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## MNMacAdam (May 31, 2018)

DesertGirl said:


> Excellent description, Ascott! Thank you.



I got a soaking station fixed up today. She loved it and drank deeply from it and when I came back home she was out of it sunning a bit. How often should I place her in this 18" inch pot holder I have for her to dunk into if I don't see her there soon on her own?


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## MNMacAdam (May 31, 2018)

orv said:


> In your garden you may have roses (both the flowers and leaves), Gazanias, grape vine leaves (an absolute favorite of our CDTs), and ice plant (once again, flowers and "leaves""). Other weeds and succlents that are on the "safe" list and haven't been treated with pesticides or chemical fertilizers are wonderful foods as well. You've got a beautiful old gal there and I hope that there are many more years ahead for each of you.



Thanks so much for the food tips. I am keeping printed lists of the valuable feedback from Tortis Forum members that I have received. I am very appreciative of the kind help and input I have had from so many of you! Blessings to all of you!


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## daniellenc (May 31, 2018)

I would leave her alone. They aren’t swimmers and if she can get out she can flip and drown as well. I use the two dollars plastic tubs from Walmart to soak for 30 minutes a day. An adult can be done fewer times though with her swelling and renal issues daily wouldn’t hurt and may be helpful.


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## daniellenc (May 31, 2018)

I meant wouldn’t leave her alone. Texting from phone.


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## TriciaStringer (May 31, 2018)

MNMacAdam said:


> I got a soaking station fixed up today. She loved it and drank deeply from it and when I came back home she was out of it sunning a bit. How often should I place her in this 18" inch pot holder I have for her to dunk into if I don't see her there soon on her own?


I would definitely try soaking her everyday for thirty minutes. Just make sure the water stays warm. I set a timer for 15 minutes, scoop out half the water and then add more warm. I use a large Rubbermaid tub for my large tortoise so he can’t get out. He doesn’t know that soaking is super important. I still provide a couple of water containers in his yard as well that he can walk in and out of as he pleases.


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## TriciaStringer (May 31, 2018)

TriciaStringer said:


> I would definitely try soaking her everyday for thirty minutes. Just make sure the water stays warm. I set a timer for 15 minutes, scoop out half the water and then add more warm. I use a large Rubbermaid tub for my large tortoise so he can’t get out. He doesn’t know that soaking is super important. I still provide a couple of water containers in his yard as well that he can walk in and out of as he pleases.


I don’t have a DT though. I could be wrong.


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## orv (May 31, 2018)

This senior citizen Desert Tortoise will do just fine with a terra cota planter base to use for soaking and drinking. Our oldest DT is a female that we've had since 1970, she was an adult when she arrived. . . this makes her at least 75. Anyway, this watering dish is cleaned and re-filled daily. Our tortoises drink and soak frequently, but not daily. Our 2 juveniles do soak or get in the sprinklers daily. By the way, we have a grouping of 1 adult male, 1 adult female, and 2 "teenage" juvenile females. All this is very much to the chagrin of one of our forum experts, Tom, who I have a lot of respect for. He and I simply don't agree on our grouping. This has nothing to do with your situation, so I apologize for going on and on here. I truly wish you well with Charlie, our DTs become important parts of our families. I'm so pleased that you're becomming a part of our forum family.


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## ascott (May 31, 2018)

MNMacAdam said:


> I got a soaking station fixed up today. She loved it and drank deeply from it and when I came back home she was out of it sunning a bit. How often should I place her in this 18" inch pot holder I have for her to dunk into if I don't see her there soon on her own?



Hi, I received your email earlier today and I was not able to reply because of the W word...work...lol....I was happy to hear of the successful soaking and drinking...BRAVO to you two....I would leave the soaking dish out each and every day that Charlie is out during the tortoise season....that would be all months except when she is getting her beauty sleep during winter....as an adult she will have no problems with the soaking/drinking dish out always....I bet if you picked her up now and then again in a week...she will fill like a boulder...which is fantastic....and I would continue to offer her a rotating food offering of romaine, red leaf, green leaf and offer her the entire head....I am confident she will have no problem devouring it and will benefit greatly from the internal hydration as well as the "full" feeling .....as outlined, a variety of offerings is great and you can do this with store bought items...which will help with ease for you...as well as satisfy her lust for yummy and good stuff...regardless to what you may hear...romaine, red leaf, green leaf, radicchio, endive and such are all good items to rotate...I would offer each a couple of times each day and then switch up to the next on your list....these guys can pack away and entire head each and every day...and like you said you have other flowers and items to offer and will work along side these other items....happy to hear all is progressing well....I am still in love with those beautiful tortoise eyes...had to go back and look again....


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