# Old Mazuri vs Chicken food for laying hens.



## Kapidolo Farms (Mar 31, 2020)

Where did I ever even get the idea to feed chicken food to tortoises? Kay Booth, it was her idea. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B004XQZ0PM/?tag=exoticpetnetw-20

I'm not suggesting you buy that book or not, it's just where the concept came from. It was published in 1980, and it's been another 40 years since then. Kay fed CDT Purina Mills Layer crumbles. They now come in an ORGANIC version.

Layer Crumbles now have 80 years of use, which is more than all the other 'tortoise diets' combined. That in itself does not mean it is better or worse, but it does speak to the fact that it works.

So, let's look at some of the ingredients. More or less the same for 95% of the bulk of the diet between "old" Mazuri and organic layers crumbles, but of course the Mazuri is not organic. Layer crumbles don't have molasses and have more calcium and a corresponding amount of D3 to be utilized with that calcium.

If you don't care to read all the following, just check out the attachment.

*Mazuri "old" tortoise pellets*: from https://www.mazuri.com/mazuri/repti...82-faMRwVJpp1pYIsx8LGSS3qXQHx28waAvTEEALw_wcB

Ground soybean hulls, ground corn, dehulled soybean meal, ground oats, wheat middlings, cane molasses, dehydrated alfalfa meal, wheat germ, dicalcium phosphate, soybean oil, brewers dried yeast, calcium carbonate, salt, dl-methionine, choline chloride, pyridoxine hydrochloride, d-alpha tocopheryl acetate (form of vitamin E), biotin, cholecalciferol, menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source of vitamin K), calcium pantothenate, vitamin A acetate, folic acid, riboflavin, preserved with mixed tocopherols, rosemary extract, nicotinic acid, vitamin B12 supplement, thiamine mononitrate, citric acid, l-lysine, manganous oxide, zinc oxide, ferrous carbonate, copper sulfate, zinc sulfate, calcium iodate, sodium selenite, cobalt carbonate.
*
Purina Mills organic Layer crumbles*: from https://nrsworld.com/products/purina-organic-layer-crumbles-35lbs
Organic Ground Corn, Organic Soybean Meal, Organic Wheat Middlings, Organic Wheat, Organic Heat Processed Soybeans, Calcium Carbonate, Monocalcium Phosphate, Organic Soybean Oil, Salt, Diatomaceous Earth, Organic Tagetes (Aztec Marigold) Meal (Color), Dried Kelp, Methionine Supplement, Manganous Oxide, Zinc Sulfate, Ferrous Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite, Choline Chloride, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Niacin Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Calcium Panothenate, Vitamin A Supplement, Riboflavin Supplement, Menadione Nicotinamide Bisulfite, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Thiamine Mononitrate, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Folic Acid, Biotin.

The layer crumbles have a similar nutrient profile to "old" Mazuri, less the molasses, BUT far more important, many times more calcium, enough to support a chicken laying an egg everyday. It also has enough D3 to support the use of that more calcium. AND IT'S ORGANIC.


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## jsheffield (Mar 31, 2020)

Fascinating! Bravo on out of the box thinking combined with research and comparison. I think I'll try a bag and see how it works with my torts.

Would this be your recommendation for all torts, or more for those laying eggs? 

As always, thanks for stretching my brain to the benefit of my torts!

Jamie


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## Maro2Bear (Mar 31, 2020)

Seems like a good substitute & easier to find locally at any feed supply store.
I’m sure good for any tort with a shell ? not just those with breeders.

What does @Tom think?


BUT, will our torts who love Mazuri eat the crumbles w/o the tasty molasses.?


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## Tom (Mar 31, 2020)

Maro2Bear said:


> What does @Tom think?


I've never tried it. It makes sense to me and Will is a smart guy, so I see no reason it wouldn't work.

Personally, with all the stuff I grow and find, I don't use much in the way of supplemental type foods anymore. I feed my tortoises buckets of weeds, grasses, leaves, spineless opuntia pads, and flowers. All different types seasonally throughout each year.


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## Ink (Mar 31, 2020)

I have some in my fridge. I am using it with Dexter. In the 80's I had a Leopard (from a pet store) and her shell was soft. I took her to a vet and he told me to feed her the chicken feed for hen laying eggs. It worked great. I am grinding it up and sprinkling on his food nor a little more calcium. I used to bring it up with zucchini because my leopard hated it plain, picky.


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## Yvonne G (Mar 31, 2020)

I soak it in either hibiscus juice or aloe juice then mix the resultant soft crumbles into the chopped greens.

(Hibiscus juice: purchase dried hibiscus flower petals (My source is kapidolofarms.com). add a layer of petals to the bottom of a water proof container and add enough water so you will have plenty of water left to soak your crumbles in. Set the container in the fridge overnight. In the a.m. you will have dark red water to pour over your Purina Layer Crumbles.

aloe juice comes from Trader Joe's. They sell it in gallon jugs.)


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## Sue Ann (Apr 1, 2020)

Yvonne G said:


> I soak it in either hibiscus juice or aloe juice then mix the resultant soft crumbles into the chopped greens.
> 
> (Hibiscus juice: purchase dried hibiscus flower petals (My source is kapidolofarms.com). add a layer of petals to the bottom of a water proof container and add enough water so you will have plenty of water left to soak your crumbles in. Set the container in the fridge overnight. In the a.m. you will have dark red water to pour over your Purina Layer Crumbles.
> 
> aloe juice comes from Trader Joe's. They sell it in gallon jugs.)


Thanks think I will try it with Dexter my Sully


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## Kapidolo Farms (Apr 1, 2020)

I flavor it as Yvonne explained. Plain you can smell the oyster shell in it. That may or may not be attractive to a tortoise. The color/flavor of the hibiscus, or rose hips works well.

2 pounds https://kapidolofarms.com/product/pm-organic-layer-crumbles-32-oz-2-lbs/
4 pounds https://kapidolofarms.com/product/pm-organic-layer-crumbles-64-oz-4-lbs/

I have used it with all the babies that come through the farm and for adults too. They all get it, males females, subadults and babies. I offer it as much as every other day, or as little as twice a week. It is in rotation with or aside from ZooMed pellets, Vionate, or some grass pellets. I still have a no supplement day, and a calcium only day. A fast once in awhile too.


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## jaizei (Apr 1, 2020)

@Kapidolo Farms Funny that you mention 80s years of use; the author just released a sequel? updated version? aptly called _Eighty Years with Tortoises_


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## Ghazan (Apr 1, 2020)

Nice find


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## C. Nelson (Apr 2, 2020)

Kapidolo Farms said:


> Where did I ever even get the idea to feed chicken food to tortoises? Kay Booth, it was her idea. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B004XQZ0PM/?tag=exoticpetnetw-20
> 
> I'm not suggesting you buy that book or not, it's just where the concept came from. It was published in 1980, and it's been another 40 years since then. Kay fed CDT Purina Mills Layer crumbles. They now come in an ORGANIC version.
> 
> ...




Thanks for the good information.


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## jsheffield (Apr 4, 2020)

I ordered a bag from Amazon and fed it to my 5 torts this morning for the first time. I used a different, but similar, organic layer feed, this one in pellets as I thought it might be less wasteful if I end up feeding it plain at some point.



https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07FP5KPMQ/?tag=exoticpetnetw-20


I made a batch of hibiscus juice (using dehydrated flowers and hot water), mixed in a bunch of the pellets after it had cooled, and served it over mixed greens on their food tiles.

Thanks for the idea!

Jamie


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## jsheffield (Apr 4, 2020)

The early reports are in... my torts cleaned their plates!

2 Russians, a Redfoot, a Homes Hingeback, and a Black Mountain Tortoise.

As with Mazuri, the protein is a bit high (to my mind) to make it an everyday feed (most especially for the Russians), but as a weekly part of their diet, I think it makes sense and I like the looks of the ingredients more than I do the Mazuri feed.

One ingredient in particular that I appreciate is the kelp... I think seaweed is a superfood, and contains micronutrients (most notably iodine) that can be missing in our tortoises' diets.
I also like that the Ca/P ratio is so high in this food
All in all, I'm very happy to have another food item to add to the mix that my torts get in their feeding rotations.

Thanks so much for bringing this to my attention!

Jamie


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