# HELP!! Outdoor Enclosure: Predator Prevention



## Owlii (Feb 24, 2013)

Hello,

I am in the process of building an outdoor enclosure for my yearling Sulcata tortoise and had a few questions concerning predators. I live in Florida, and we know of at least one Eastern Indigo Snakes that like to hang out in our backyard, and several garden snakes. My tortoise weighs 257.5 grams and is over 6 and 1/2 inches long, is he large enough for these snakes to not consider him as a food source? I plan on putting a chicken wire hinged lid on the top of the enclosure, and digging down so that the wood is in the ground so things can't dig in, but I'm not quite sure how to prevent a snake from squeezing in and killing my tortoise. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. 

Thanks,

Lindsey


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## Yvonne G (Feb 24, 2013)

Hi Lindsey:

I'm not sure that snakes will harm tortoises. I know that here in California the desert tortoise sometimes uses the same burrow that is inhabited by snakes.

What I do for my tortoises is provide a very secure "house" for them to be in at night. Then every night I make sure all the tortoises are inside their houses and I close and latch the doors.


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## Dizisdalife (Feb 24, 2013)

Like Yvonne, I have a secure house for my Sulcata to sleep in at night. When he was a yearling I would leave him in his pen during the day and bring him in at night. It was just less worry and fewer predators to defend him against.


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## jmlmomma (Feb 24, 2013)

*RE: HELP!! Outdoor EnclosuPredator Prevention*



emysemys said:


> Hi Lindsey:
> 
> I'm not sure that snakes will harm tortoises. I know that here in California the desert tortoise sometimes uses the same burrow that is inhabited by snakes.
> 
> What I do for my tortoises is provide a very secure "house" for them to be in at night. Then every night I make sure all the tortoises are inside their houses and I close and latch the doors.



We didn't think about the fact that most snakes eat at night. We plan on bring the little guy in at night until he gets at least a foot or bigger... We did see on the Indigo snake information that it stated that they sometimes share a habitat with tortoises, yet they are one of the snakes that eat turtles..it's confusing...the snake that hangs out around here is about 3 feet long...he scared my husband the other day, it was up under the lid of his tool box, so when he open the box it fell out on his feet! should of heard him scream like a girl! LOL... anyway...I LOVE the Indigo snake and don't want to try to run him off...(plus here in Florida it would be a waste of time trying) ). Just wanting to know if there is a way to keep everything safe...


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## Thalatte (Feb 24, 2013)

Generally snakes can't eat torts and turtles because of their shells. Its hard for them to swallow a tort and then to pass the shell. And it's not like they could pick out only the meaty parts. They might eat newly hatched ones but I don't see them eating anything older than a few months. Or a very large snake might crush a very small tort but I doubt that would happen.


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## bmt123 (Feb 24, 2013)

I wouldn't worry about a three foot snake


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## lynnedit (Feb 24, 2013)

If you have other predators (raccoons are mostly night feeders, but they may come out at dusk and surprise you), then consider galvanized mesh instead of chicken wire on your lids. They have it at hardware, feed stores and home supply stores. Might as well use something strong if you are going to make them.
Just for the picture: http://www.midlandhardware.com/24-i...gdftrk=gdfV25189_a_7c1552_a_7c6274_a_7c742822

Look at Laurie's enclosures for her Russian tortoises; nicely done.
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/thread-50574.html#axzz27YFB5NFp
Scroll all of the way down for pics of lids, etc.


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## WillTort2 (Feb 24, 2013)

I've built a top for my outdoor enclosure. Use some 1" x 4" wood build 2 or more rectangles and then secure some 1" wire or 1/2" wire across the top. You can hinge 2 rectangles together to allow easy access to the pen. Make sure the sides go deep into the ground or you line the bottom with wire to prevent digging in by predators or digging out by your tortoises. But put in a deep enough substrate to allow them to burrow.


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## Owlii (Feb 24, 2013)

Thank you everyone for all of the helpful suggestions! We already had plans of bringing him in at night, due to how small he is, so hopefully that alone will prevent predators from getting him. The galvanized wire is a good suggestion over chicken wire. I have always been worried about the strength of chicken wire over something else for the lid. My aunt uses it for her chickens [go figure haha!] and has never had any issues with raccoons or foxes, but better safe than sorry. n_n

How deep do you all suggest I should dig for the sides? My little guy is not a digger at all, so it's mainly predators I would have to worry about for this one.


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## Tom (Feb 24, 2013)

First of all, you are SOOOOO lucky to get to visit with a wild Eastern Indigo!

Indigo snakes will eat just about anything alive that will fit in their mouth. So, can your tortoise fit in his mouth? Something is off on your size and weight. I have some young sulcatas that are 4-5 inches and weigh over 600 grams. 275 grams would be around or just under 4". Once your baby is too big to swallow, you won't have to worry about snakes so much. Raccoons, dogs, etc., are another story...

Here is an idea for outdoor enclosures:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/thread-30683.html

Instead of welded wire or chicken wire you can use "hardware cloth" which is galvanized wire that has half inch by half inch openings.


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## halfnelson (Feb 24, 2013)

I agree with using hardware cloth, and a strand of electric fence around your enclosure might be a good idea too.


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## Owlii (Feb 25, 2013)

Tom said:


> First of all, you are SOOOOO lucky to get to visit with a wild Eastern Indigo!
> 
> Indigo snakes will eat just about anything alive that will fit in their mouth. So, can your tortoise fit in his mouth? Something is off on your size and weight. I have some young sulcatas that are 4-5 inches and weigh over 600 grams. 275 grams would be around or just under 4". Once your baby is too big to swallow, you won't have to worry about snakes so much. Raccoons, dogs, etc., are another story...
> 
> ...



I was wrong on my measurements, he is right at 4 inches long (not sure why I got confused and thought he was 6 inches). I'm not even sure he is a year old. I purchased him from a woman that bought him from a pet store. She said they told her he was hatched August 2011. He seems a bit small to me for his size, but I have read the size varies greatly. 

Thank you for the hardware cloth suggestion. I've seen it at Lowes before and have contemplated using it because it is very strong. Is it hard to work with?


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## lynnedit (Feb 25, 2013)

Galvanized hardware cloth is stiff, but even chickenwire is. The hardware cloth is so much stronger.
Just unroll it, and rest bricks on the ends to hold it in place while you cut it.


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