# vegetarianism



## Redfootedboxturtles (Sep 4, 2008)

I wanted to start a thread to get every ones opinions and thoughts on vegetarianism. Ive thought about it and even tried to stop eating meat. My main reason is that I just love animals and even though meat isnt bad or wrong to eat they way its mass produced and the treatment of the animals is just hard to handle.


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## Shawn and Dianne (Sep 4, 2008)

I'm a veggie, my reasons have changed over time, but now it is mostly to help the environment, the amount of damage that the agriculture system does to the world is enormous, look it up sometime. I don't force my views on others at all, but one thing I do request is that you do not eat veal (extremely cruel) and you look carefully at where your seafood is coming from.

Dianne


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## katesgoey (Sep 4, 2008)

I can understand your concern that: "even though meat isnt bad or wrong to eat they way its mass produced and the treatment of the animals is just hard to handle." But there is a difference between the large corporate farms and the owner/operator farms and yet another difference between methods used by those within each system of farming in the raising and preparing for market our food supply. The corporate farms keep the costs to us down while fewer of us are willing to pay the higher cost charged by the small livestock farmer - many of whom have websites for customers to buy direct. I was raised on a small farm with livestock, fruit trees and a garden. It isn't pretty anyway you look at it when it comes time to butcher for meat or poultry - which is why even though we are on a small farm now, I will not raise our own pork, beef or chickens - yet I do eat meat. I simply could not eat an animal I had raised. So I wonder if the objection to farming methods is the actual treatment of animals while being raised until they are killed and butchered or the thought of killing livestock for meat? (Sorry if this is too bluntly worded, but I do wonder if there is a distinction for most of us in deciding to become a vegan or not).


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## Granolagal (Sep 4, 2008)

My little boy and I are vegetarians. I have been for the last 18 years, and have no adverse affects from it. Beneficial if anything. I stopped eating meat for the very reasons that you spoke of. Now that so many meat alternatives are available (tonnes more that when I stopped eating meat) I truly can't see any reason to eat our animal friends at all. Honestly, I find that people that eat meat give me a much harder time about not eating animals, then I give them about eating them...strangely enough. My son is five and I have always told him the reasons that I chose to become a vegetarian, and that when he is old enough to buy his own groceries that he is permitted to eat and make whatever choices that he wants. He is currently going through an amusing phase of thinking that eating meat is absolutely ubsurd and so are those that choose to eat it (which is just about everyone that we know). He told his father that he was bad for eating it and tends to comment on any meat that he see as being gross and discusting...lol. I have had numerous discussions with him about people having different views and the right to make their own choices...I am just worried that if he continues to behave in this manner that he is going to end up having no friends...lol

It isn't written in stone anywhere that we are more important that then the other animals that we share this world with. We are capable of having a completely healthful diet without imprisoning, torturing and killing innocent creatures, so why then do we do it?? If we became over-run by animals becasue of the choice to not kill them...then so be it, again, why do we think that we have more of a right to be here than them.....

follow your heart 
Carley


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## jlyoncc1 (Sep 4, 2008)

I don't think I could ever be a vegetarian. But my husband hunts and we eat the deer that he gets. Although I know this grosses out alot of people, I feel it is healthier. No preservatives, hormones, etc. My children have grown up eating it and prefer it over beef. We do supplement with chicken and fish. I do know a few vegetarians though.


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## Jacqui (Sep 6, 2008)

I am a huge meat eater and especially beef I crave. I was raised on home raised chickens and wild meats/fish. While my kids were growing up, we raised chickens and rabbits for consumption. I myself can't kill the animals,but have no troubles dressing it out. We make a distinction between pets and food animals.

That being said, my youngest daughter has tried several times to do the vegetarian diet. I encouraged her, but not to the point where the whole house went veg. She found in both high school and now at college, that such a diet was hard to stay with. The foods just aren't offered. She found the same thing true when we went out to eat.

Most of the prepared frozen foods to both my daughter and I were a tad expensive and not very tasty. I think it would be better, if your the type who likes to cook (not something you find anybody in my house doing. ).

Dee, I think deer meat makes the very best tacos.


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## Granolagal (Sep 6, 2008)

Jacqui said:


> I am a huge meat eater and especially beef I crave. I was raised on home raised chickens and wild meats/fish. While my kids were growing up, we raised chickens and rabbits for consumption. I myself can't kill the animals,but have no troubles dressing it out. We make a distinction between pets and food animals.
> 
> That being said, my youngest daughter has tried several times to do the vegetarian diet. I encouraged her, but not to the point where the whole house went veg. She found in both high school and now at college, that such a diet was hard to stay with. The foods just aren't offered. She found the same thing true when we went out to eat.
> 
> ...




LOL..yes, you do need to be able to cook to be a 'happy vegetarian'. When I first started dating my boyfriend he was a little freaked out about the fact that I didn't eat animals...until I started cooking for him . Now that's all that he wants and craves. A vegetarian that is committed to being healthy needs to do a lot of research and get creative. I found it tough in college as well..I ate a lot of cheese sammies noodles and rice . When I had my little boy, I had no choice but to be creative as I wouldn't sacrifice his health for anything. Little ones can be fussy as it is..it can be tough, but well worth it my opinion.

I'm not entirely sure who gets to reasonably decide what animals are pets, to be left in the wild and to be kept for 'our consumption'. I guess we as humans do feel that we are 'god-like'? A huge part of deciding to not eat animals was that I knew that I was completely incapable of killing one under any circumstance... that made me feel that I didn't have the right to eat them. If I felt it was cruel or wrong to kill them how could I possibly reason consuming one? I have a lot more respect for the hunter for that very reason. If they can do it, I can only reason that they are the only ones that have the right to eat their kill. It seems more natural, and I like to think that the animal had a fulfilled and happy life before it's death.

...more thoughts


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## Shellback (Sep 6, 2008)

I don't know what they do to those chicken's, but its Delicious!!!


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## Granolagal (Sep 6, 2008)

LOL Tortoise meat tastes like chicken!


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## Jacqui (Sep 6, 2008)

Granolagal said:


> I'm not entirely sure who gets to reasonably decide what animals are pets, to be left in the wild and to be kept for 'our consumption'. I guess we as humans do feel that we are 'god-like'? A huge part of deciding to not eat animals was that I knew that I was completely incapable of killing one under any circumstance... that made me feel that I didn't have the right to eat them. If I felt it was cruel or wrong to kill them how could I possibly reason consuming one? I have a lot more respect for the hunter for that very reason. If they can do it, I can only reason that they are the only ones that have the right to eat their kill. It seems more natural, and I like to think that the animal had a fulfilled and happy life before it's death.
> 
> ...more thoughts



To me it's not being "god like", it's simply a choice. Same as it's a choice to let and animal linger painfully with old age and slowly die or put them down. To allow the deer herds become so over populated they become sick and weak. I guess some would also say we are playing god when we incubate eggs or take a turtle off the road.

For me, a captive meat animal is one who was born for that purpose. A pet is one with whom you become emotionally attached with. 

As a vegetarian I had some questions for my daughter. Why are plants not considered worthy to not have to sacrifice their lives? Why do we feel we are "gods" over them? Research has shown they too sense things like pain and fear certain folks. Why is it for some vegetarians, it's okay to eat fish and seafood? Are they not living? Do we really think they don't suffer? Those that drink milk or eat cheese, wasn't that milk meant to feed young? Are eggs not possible babies?


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## Jacqui (Sep 6, 2008)

Granolagal said:


> LOL Tortoise meat tastes like chicken!



not exactly, but close


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## Jacqui (Sep 7, 2008)

I want to apologize. I took this thread off the main point and on to arguing the thought of if it was "god like" to make the choice to kill an animal for eating. If you can't tell it's a subject that gets to me.

Please let's get back to his main question.

Just a side note: My daughter gave up (at least for now) being a vegetarian after she went to donate blood and was turned down because she was anemic. The college medical staff told her it was most likely due to her diet, which as I said before she had found severely limited at college.
You really need to watch what you eat and don't eat so you get the right balance of nutrition.

Once more, sorry.


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## Granolagal (Sep 7, 2008)

Hey Jacqui! 

I don't think that your apologies to anyone are necessary at all. I didn't find what you said argumentative nor offensive in any way...I just assumed that you were expressing your opinion on my opinions. There is nothing wrong with that at all. I also don't feel that it was off the topic as he was asking for opinions and all of these surround it.  

I have read "the Secret Life of Plants" interestring stuff...

Just out of curiosity..What blood type is your daughter?? I know that 'O' type blood folks tend/seem to require more protein...

Cheers, Carley


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## redkim (Sep 12, 2008)

Now what do you do about vitamins? I know that vitamin B-12 is only in red meat. Do you have to take a multivitamin? I would think given the wide selection of foods available now they would be vitamin fortified to cover any deficiencies from lack of meat, and lack of milk/egg/etc if you are a vegan.

Personally I do eat meat, but I don't anthropomorphize animals (the "it-has-a-face" issue) and have no problem eating them as humans are meant to eat - omnivorous beings. I have no problem roping a steer, saying thanks and then getting in line for the dinner BBQ, but that's me. I don't hold anyone's choices against them and I appreciate folks who don't push their choices on me, so thanks for being the way your are Granolagal and others.

As far as the point about it being better for the environment - I cannot say I totally agree with that given the large amounts of clearing in the rainforest and other areas for soy and other crops. Most beef is run without needing to clear trees - they will just wander around the forest floor and eat unlike crops which require groomed areas for constancy and tending. In the US grazing is typically done in areas where the rancher does not need to do work on the land- he's too busy keeping his cattle. And a lot of grazing that is done on gov't leases is closely watched by gov't and environmental groups to make sure over-grazing is not done and that drainage and waterways are not adversely affected. Ranchers who own their land will be very conscientious too as they know the land and creeks must remain in good condition to continue running cattle.

I also do not agree with the "let the animals overrun us" point. However it could be said that if we did not eat them we would not breed them . . . but right now there is a real mess in the horse industry with the closing of all US slaughterhouses. Now I agree that folks should be responsible but the fact is - many aren't. So the slaughterhouses had a use. Now - horses are everywhere, the price of hay is outrageous and couples with the higher costs of gas etc. and folks losing their homes. So instead of dropping off their horse at the sale to be bought by the meat man and made into a useful can of Alpo - they are allowing the animals to starve in the corral of a foreclosed home, or just driving them out to the desert/country and leaving them. The horses that are bought by the meat guys? They are shipped to Mexico and Canada where the standards for humane killing may not be as strict as the US was. It is a sad sad deal all the way around.
Another problem with animals possibly overrunning us . . . prey/predator levels - supply and demand. Hunting licenses are given out in order to keep the ecological balance. Some years more tags are allowed, some years less depending on number of animals and conditions. If there is a great year as far as water and food supply the animals will breed. Prey animals will feed on the grass while predators feed on the prey. Then the next year we have a drought. Prey animals are eaten or starve due to too many animals on a meager supply, once the prey animals numbers have depleted the predators are now out of food. Where will they turn? Starve or enter our neighborhoods. Well then cats/dogs/children start getting attacked and snatched simply to feed a starving coyote/wolf/moutain lion. Who gets hunted and shot.

OOOPS - sorry will get off the dang soap box all.

One last thing - then I will go, promise!
I think your "god-like" point was just another part of an interesting discussion Jacqui - not offended in the least you should not need to apologize.


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## cvalda (Sep 13, 2008)

I'm a vegetarian and have been since I was 17 (16 years now I think). I don't eat any meat, poultry or fish. I used to not eat eggs either but my body really craved that and I finally gave in and do eat eggs, tho I try to buy free-range when I can!

It's very easy for me, and I easily find other foods to eat. I'm not a food fan anyways so it's not hard for me to refrain from meet. (I also don't take in ANY caffeine, chocolate or soda!)

It's a moral thing for me, but didn't start out as such, started out more of a discipline thing for me, as a teen I realized I wasn't eating healthy and wasn't being fed healthy (my mom happily got me McDonald's four times a week at least) and so I made the choice to discipline myself. Everyone said I wouldn't last two weeks. HA! My late brother eventually became a vegetarian as well!

At home I do not feed my kids meat, but they all have the option to eat it at school or when they're out with others. They know my stand on it, and are free to make their own decisions.

I do feed my pets whatever diet is natural to them, so that means meat-based food and treats for the cats and dog... it pains me to see the dog chewing on a bone but she loves it so! I used to feel horrible giving the crickets to the dragons, but got used to it after awhile.


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## james (Sep 15, 2008)

Redfootedboxturtles said:


> its mass produced and the treatment of the animals is just hard to handle.



i have the same feelings, that's why i buy my meat from a local organic and natural store only. very good meat, doens't have anythign added to them, and always fresh. the animals are fed organic food, treated with respect, and are able to graze without being over populated. one thing that disgusts me is the treatment of the animals when it comes it mass produced meat. they have them so confined and over populated. they treat them like the meat they will become, not the animal they currently are.


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