# Another (but different) behavior question



## SteveW (Mar 27, 2018)

As background, I have had the recent good fortune of a career change that provides a much more flexible schedule and significant time working from home. In other words, my tortoise carrying capacity has greatly increased. 
As I look to increase the herd, I am concurrently working with a good friend that teaches animal behavior, on parameters to test cognition and ability to learn in turtles and tortoises. 
To that end, I am looking for species with the greatest potential for human interaction. Current cohorts include a Mee, a NA wood turtle, and a Southern Painted. All associate humans with food and will calmly eat from the hand. This is what we are looking for in phase 1. No fear, but also no aggression. 
My marginated for example just wants to fight and my mud turtle just wants to bite me. Fun, but not helpful. Aldabras and sulcattas are appealing but just too large for my purposes. 

With these constraints in mind, I would appreciate any relevant species suggestions. I have some in mind, but would value others suggestions. 
Thank you in advance.


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## Tom (Mar 27, 2018)

Nothing beats a sulcata in this regard. Not even close. Shame they are too big for your available space.

Female Gpp might serve your purpose well, but males are very territorial and aggressive. At least all of mine are.

I find most healthy male Testudo to be fairly aggressive and territorial too, some more than others.

Platynota would fit this bill very well. Gregarious and outgoing, but not usually aggressive for either sex.

Where are you? Somewhere with humidity? What about red foots? They are usually very congenial.

In CA, NV or AZ? DTs are also very personable. Some males get scrappy, but many are just curious and puppy dog friendly. TX torts are very personable too.


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## SteveW (Mar 28, 2018)

Tom said:


> Nothing beats a sulcata in this regard. Not even close. Shame they are too big for your available space.
> 
> Female Gpp might serve your purpose well, but males are very territorial and aggressive. At least all of mine are.
> 
> ...



Hmmmm. Good info Tom, particularly regarding the Gpp. I may need to rethink our other conversation and get on the Burmese list. 

Redfoots are definitely on the list. They seem to show up most frequently in the literature for similar trials. 
I’m in N .Cal with not much humidity but I have an abundance of shade cloth and misters.


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## SteveW (Mar 28, 2018)

One of the parameters we hope to explore has to do with maze navigation and route memory. There are two specific concepts in particular, one being capacity (which has been done before of course) but is quantifiable and establishes a baseline. 
The second has to do with species specific adaptability as relates to native ecology. 
For example, a redfoot does not have the digestive system to efficiently graze on grasses and high fiber vegetation as compared to a leopard. Within a given biome, grass and forb distribution can approach random, which would favor wandering for grazing species. 
Omnivores though, would feed more efficiently by finding and returning to a high value food source like a fruit tree, which is both location and time specific. An early hypothesis is that omnivores will display better maze navigation and route memory than grazing species.


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## Tom (Mar 28, 2018)

Fascinating stuff. I look forward to your findings.

I think this will vary species by species. In conversation with @Will he mentioned how even though they are in the same general area and eating the same general foods, Chersina tend to occupy smaller territories and don't venture too far out of them, similar to what I've read about Western Hermanni in Italy, while the local leopard tortoises wander far and wide, occupying much larger territories.


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## Markw84 (Mar 28, 2018)

With aquatics you have a good choice with the painted and NA wood turtle. Totally lose fear and very food motivated. From what you describe the NA wood with a more terrestrial preference would be better. Another great choice would be spotted turtles. I work with them and they are one of the most personable, fearless, and comfortable on land.


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## SteveW (Mar 28, 2018)

Markw84 said:


> With aquatics you have a good choice with the painted and NA wood turtle. Totally lose fear and very food motivated. From what you describe the NA wood with a more terrestrial preference would be better. Another great choice would be spotted turtles. I work with them and they are one of the most personable, fearless, and comfortable on land.



Thanks Mark. Spotted’s are on my list. I also have access to a Reeves and Golden thread to represent the aquatics.


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## SteveW (Mar 28, 2018)

Another component we hope to explore is generalized positive association, or ‘does the turtle/tort like me?” 
Our logic goes like this:
When humans or other social animals feel positive emotions (aka experience a seratonin surge) it is the result of generations of selection pressures that reward such social interactions with successful gene propagation. Basically, humans don’t survive well in solo situations because we’re slow and squishy. So we ‘like’ what helps us survive, even indirectly. Chelonians don’t have this social component ( setting aside gregarious basking species and semi-social foraging as seen in Redfoots for the moment) but they generally display a high food drive. It is this that we hope to work with. 

I’m considering positive food associations as existing in three degrees of separation ( if you’ll excuse that use of the term). 
Lions, tigers, and my mud turtle have primary human-food associations, as in, we are food. Secondly association is the recognition and anticipation that humans bring food. 
Except for a few traumatized individuals, every Chelonian I have ever been around (and fish, for that matter) operates on this level. 
Tertiary association then, would be demonstrated by interactive behaviors that are not immediately linked to survival (food). Because this is more time intensive, it will be more focused on outliers as proof of concept as opposed to a cross sectional survey. 
At least he very least, this should keep me occupied till Stranger things season 3.


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## EryninCebu (Apr 7, 2018)

Hi SteveW, I acquired my red foot from a local pet store (also a captive breeder of different tortoises) here in Philippines. My red foot, Drew, is very personable, he/she is around 6 months old, Drew readily took food from my hand within a week's time that I have him/her, that was when Drew was about 3 months old. 
I read from the forum here that not all red foot are the same, some are more shy than others. It's possible that I am lucky to have one that interacts with me a lot. Drew likes to look at what I'm doing, although he doesn't really follow me around but he does come to me every once in a while (whether or not he's hungry or full). But it could also be because I picked Drew out myself from 5 other baby red foots, he was the one that didn't show any shyness and when I held out a piece of food, Drew was the one who took it. So this could be something you can also try out when picking your chelonian.
Referring to what you have mentioned about high food drive, Drew definitely displays such drive, the more he/she likes the food, the bigger the mouth opens  I sometimes make Drew ran for his favorite food, and he/she does it with vigor.
Drew does try to bite my nails though, but not my finger, so if he/she sees the nail then he/she will try to bite, but not when I turn my finger around to show the thumb side. 
I also noticed that Drew learns very well, I've observed that he/she remembers where to go for his favorite spots in the living room (about 100 m2 size room)
Before getting Drew, I did a lot of reading on line, I also read that Sulcata is very personable, but I chose red foot in the end because climate suitability. 

Good luck!


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## drew54 (Nov 4, 2018)

I'm very interested in your results. I'm a behavior specialist specializing in human development and behavior modification. I have a sulcata hatchling and I have been trying to study her behavior and responses to my care. I've noticed some positives in her responses to me under certain conditions as opposed to others. This could suggest that it id's possible to encourage certain behaviors over others, but I won't have any real answers for several years at least.


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