# I feel like I'm starving my torti



## MaggieL (Feb 2, 2011)

Lately Niko has been biting at everything. My bracelet, anything he can find when he is out roaming, his food dish, me(which I'm used to!)... I don't know what his deal is. He comes to the side of his enclosure whenever I'm nearby and stares at me...my fingers and waits. I feed him his "salad" for 20 minutes everyday...nothing is different about it. What's the deal?!


----------



## Tom (Feb 2, 2011)

They have different appetites at different times of the year sometimes. Springtime for example. If you have a russian and he's not hibernating, his body might think its spring time and time to eat.

Never heard the 20 minute rule. Most of us just feed them a pile of food about the same size they are. If they eat it all up right away, I'll give them a little more in the afternoon.


----------



## dmmj (Feb 2, 2011)

Biting can sometimes be a sign of aggression, nothing much to do about it, just watch your toes. FYI they will always act hungry it is in their nature.


----------



## MaggieL (Feb 2, 2011)

dmmj said:


> Biting can sometimes be a sign of aggression, nothing much to do about it, just watch your toes. FYI they will always act hungry it is in their nature.



He's just never acted like this before, just the last few days. 




Tom said:


> They have different appetites at different times of the year sometimes. Springtime for example. If you have a russian and he's not hibernating, his body might think its spring time and time to eat.
> 
> Never heard the 20 minute rule. Most of us just feed them a pile of food about the same size they are. If they eat it all up right away, I'll give them a little more in the afternoon.



Hmmm, the 20 min thing I've heard everywhere! Maybe I will feed him a little more


----------



## Isa (Feb 2, 2011)

I agree with Tom, I always feed a pile every morning and if they eat everything, I will give them another pile in the afternoon. If they always eat everything, I will give them a little more the next day . My tortoises like to eat a little in the morning and then go bask and then eat then bask...


----------



## pebblelu (Feb 3, 2011)

I've never heard of the 20 min. rule either. Now I know if your feeding live insect's to lizards your only suppose to leave them in for 15 to 20 minutes.


----------



## Tom (Feb 3, 2011)

I use the ten minute rule on dogs sometimes. It makes for a ravenous dog who wolfs his food down as soon as the bowl is set in front of him.

Sounds like it has had the same effect on Maggies Tortoise.


----------



## Madkins007 (Feb 3, 2011)

The 20-Minute Rule (or 15, 30, etc.) is often cited as a way to control caloric intake in tortoises. I've seen it mentioned 'all over the place' as well.

Here is the deal... wild torts are designed to eat low quality foods all day. They graze and wander and sleep. Sometimes they find something special and will gorge and sleep. Lots of movement and exercise combined with foods low in calories, carbs, sugars, proteins, etc. (although some species can manage carbs and proteins better than others.) but also high in fiber, calcium, and other nutrients.

In captivity, almost everything we offer is 'wrong' somehow. Too much moisture, calories, carbs, etc. and too little fiber, calcium, etc. A wild tortoise's diet looks mostly like a plate of dry hay. A captive tortoise's looks like a delicious green salad.

In the TortoiseLibrary,com, I offer a meal plan for Red-foots but some of it would apply to Russians and others as well- feed all of the low-calorie, high-fiber, high-nutrient foods you want, but limit the richer stuff to an amount about the size of the tortoise's head a couple times a week or so.


----------



## Maggie Cummings (Feb 3, 2011)

In the old days we used to advise new keepers to feed as much as they will eat in 20 minutes...


----------



## MaggieL (Feb 3, 2011)

Thanks everyone!


----------



## Kristina (Feb 3, 2011)

The "20 minute rule" is a good starting place, and I often recommend it, but it isn't an absolute. Each tortoise is a little different and you have to adjust accordingly. Some will get fat eating only what they can consume in 20 minutes - others won't get enough to eat. For others it will be perfect.

If you feel that your tort isn't getting enough, add more as you see fit. Nothing wrong with that.


----------



## ChiKat (Feb 3, 2011)

I used to do the 20 minute rule but my little guy is a slow eater! Now I just put down a pile and kind of guess how much I think he'll eat  Some days he might get a little more than others.


----------



## MaggieL (Feb 7, 2011)

Thanks again. Niko seems slow too... I have adjusted his diet, now I give him a bit more, when he's "full" he just stops and basks or burrows, so then I take it away.  thank you so much for your help everyone. I am so grateful!


----------



## Isa (Feb 8, 2011)

What you can do is leave it there even if he go bask, my tortoises always go later for a couple of bites. Do you weight him every week? It could give you a good indication of his progess?


----------



## MaggieL (Feb 8, 2011)

Hmm. No I don't weigh him every week, but my husband always feeds him a little when he gets home.... I'll have to buy a kitchen scale huh!?


----------



## Isa (Feb 8, 2011)

Yes, a food scale or a postal one. When I first got Hermy, someone at the petstore told me to feed him in the morning and after 20 minutes, remove his food. The first day I got him I went to the vet and they put him on a scale, one week later, I had to go back and then when they took his weight, they saw that he lost weight and when I tell the vet what I was doing, he told me to feed him a handful in the morning and then when I get back from work, if his food dish is empty, to feed him again. If you start taking his weight everyweek, you will know if he eats enough or not


----------



## matt41gb (Feb 9, 2011)

Still I believe that we are over feeding our tortoises. They are not mammals with high metabolisms that need food every day. Tortoises are fine with a big meal once a week with grasses and hay in the meantime. It takes a few days for the food to be processed and digested. There is no good in feeding them big meals that often. 

-Matt


----------



## GBtortoises (Feb 9, 2011)

I agree with Matt. Mine get fed "reasonably" sized portions three days a week while indoors and have hay available to browse on 24/7. Their metabolism and digestive rate is much slower than that of mammals. Keep in mind that much of a mammals energy (calories) is used to keep their core temperature at normal operating temperatures. Tortoises don't have that need.


----------



## Cfr200 (Feb 9, 2011)

There is a formula to figure out how many calories your tortoise needs to eat to stay healthy and actively grow. I was surprised by how low this number actually is for my small guys it is only around 5. Not very much at all tortoises are amazing at conserving energy. 

Here is a link to the formula it is in the second post. http://www.tortoiseforum.org/Thread-How-often-should-Redfoots-be-fed?highlight=calorie+formula#axzz1DOUUrbhV


----------



## Madkins007 (Feb 9, 2011)

The formula for reptiles is 'weight in grams taken to the 0.75th power, times 32 gives you the Basal Metabolic Rate' (WTgr^0.75 x 32 = BMR), which is how many calories the animal needs when they are not active. The multiplier for a mammal's BMR is x64.

The BMR is for inactive animals, and you may drop it even further for some situations, like reptiles in a seasonal 'downtime' or ill, etc. Generally, though, we increase the BMR- most healthy reptiles would get about double the BMR, and we would boost it even higher for animals that are mating or laying eggs, etc. I now usually figure the calorie needs at WTgr^.75 x 64 = daily calories to reflect this.

I have this all charted nice and neatly at http://www.tortoiselibrary.com/nutguide.html sorted by body weight.


----------



## Kristina (Feb 9, 2011)

matt41gb said:


> Still I believe that we are over feeding our tortoises. They are not mammals with high metabolisms that need food every day. Tortoises are fine with a big meal once a week with grasses and hay in the meantime. It takes a few days for the food to be processed and digested. There is no good in feeding them big meals that often.
> 
> -Matt



When my torts are outside, they get one "meal" a week and the rest of the time they eat off what is growing in their pens, grass and weeds and flowers. Everyone of my torts feels like a brick when you pick them up. 

In the winter I feed small meals daily, although most of the time the Redfoots eat three times a week. Why? The big ones just won't eat a lot every day. My male sometimes goes off his feed for several days. I don't argue with them - I figure they know best 

The babies I make sure get a small meal daily, and all are doing great and growing nicely. I need to post some new pics of Black Cherry and Zahara, both are getting HUGE.

I too am an advocate against overfeeding.


----------



## MaggieL (Feb 16, 2011)

While all this info is truly appreciated, I'm even more confused. So I weigh him and calculate his caloric needs, yet people still say he doesnt need to eat everyday... What do I do?


----------



## matt41gb (Feb 16, 2011)

Your tortoise doesn't need to eat BIG every day. You can feed grasses and hay every day since they are high in fiber. Since they're digestive systems are so slow, they extract the maximum nutrition from plants, kind of like a cow chewing its cud. Keep all of the "filler" stuff out of the every day diet. Save that for once a week, or so. Tortoises are amazing creatures that can go a long time without having to eat. 

-Matt


----------



## Madkins007 (Feb 16, 2011)

MaggieL said:


> While all this info is truly appreciated, I'm even more confused. So I weigh him and calculate his caloric needs, yet people still say he doesnt need to eat everyday... What do I do?



Unless you are feeding high calorie stuff, go ahead and feed a reasonable amount every day.


----------



## Tom (Feb 17, 2011)

Like many things tortoise, this is a matter of opinion and people's opinion will be "colored" by their experiences, their learning resources and their common sense level.

I have had bad experiences with underfeeding tortoises. Most people believe that lots of food, protein, and fast growth is all bad. I used to share that opinion until I went through what I went through. Many esteemed keepers, Richard Fife for example, now think that the typical tortoise diet is protein deficient. What most refer to as "fast" growth, I know call normal growth, and its fine as long as husbandry and diet are what they should be.

For adults of most species, I agree with Matt, Kristina and GB. For babies and small juveniles I think a little differently now. It is very easy to stunt them, and the low food routine doesn't, in my opinion, offer the benefits that many people think it does. Yes, most of them survive it, but I question whether its "optimal". This is VERY debatable for different species and different ages. Even different sexes. I don't bring this up to add to your confusion, I just bring it up to explain the differences of opinion that you are seeing.

I must admit that I think these ideas do, and ought to, vary by species and age. Redfoots, for example, seem to be more touchy in this area, but I only have a little bit of experience with them. For some of the larger species, like the sulcatas that I'm so familiar with, I think providing enough food, protein and calcium to support all that growth is a whole different story than some of the smaller Testudso sp.

For a small hardy species, like your Russian, MaggieL, I really don't think its that critical. As long as he gets good temps, diet, sunshine and exercise, a little more or less food is NOT going to matter all that much. Everyone's situation is a little different. It seems to me, based on the info you have given us that bumping up YOUR torts diet a little seems appropriate at this time.


----------



## honu (Mar 24, 2011)

I hear sometimes certain tortoises hibernate...maybe that's why he is eating a lot. Is it even winter where you are?P.S I'm only 11


----------



## LavinyiaGillian (Apr 4, 2011)

It is not good to starve the creature specially when it's demand are as simple as usual vegetables like cabbage, grapes, lettuce, tomato, spinach.You don't need to make much efforts for it's food.


----------

