# immaculate conception?



## David f (Oct 3, 2012)

HELLO Group
I am a newbee with a Sulcata female about 20-24 inches of shell. And two Desert Tortoises about a foot long each a male and female. We had a equally large male Sulcata who died randomly in the summer about 1 1/2 to two years ago. 
So this morning my 12 yr old son comes screaming dad I found a baby tortoise! Fast forward a few hours we have found a nest with four hatched and four in different stages of hatching...How did that happen with out a male Sulcata?
We live in the high desert at 3800 ft elevation of socal. Our female has a huge burrow that has several tons of gravel and sand she has excavated. . They live in a horse round pen that has been fenced so they cannot escape..
Could she have been carrying the eggs that long?? The male desert T is really small so I am posting before starting my own cult..) 
Thanks in advance for any serious answers..


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## Tom (Oct 3, 2012)

They can retain sperm for a while. In most cases sulcatas don't retain it for more than a few months though. Some species can retain it for 5 years. It is possible that these eggs were in the ground before last winter and they sat overwinter and started developing with the onset of summer and warmer weather.

Can we see some pics of the babies? Are you sure the babies aren't desert tortoise babies?


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## David f (Oct 3, 2012)

Tom said:


> They can retain sperm for a while. In most cases sulcatas don't retain it for more than a few months though. Some species can retain it for 5 years. It is possible that these eggs were in the ground before last winter and they sat overwinter and started developing with the onset of summer and warmer weather.
> 
> Can we see some pics of the babies? Are you sure the babies aren't desert tortoise babies?



I really cant tell what brand they are..Thanks for the help Tom.


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## Urtle (Oct 3, 2012)

Interesting thread.. It must have been a wonderful experience to see.


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## David f (Oct 3, 2012)

Urtle said:


> Interesting thread.. It must have been a wonderful experience to see.



It was amazing finding the clutch in a hard dirt area. My son found an egg piece in this huge area about 40 feet round..It was a few feet away from where he found the first two. He then started to dig with his fingers and when he saw the eggs he screamed! Then I made him go and get his Mom and I waited wanting to dig them up before they got there. I restrained myself and when they returned we carefully dig the rest up... some were out and some were still in the eggs. We only found 8..It was awesome, Like finding treasure..But better.


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## mctlong (Oct 3, 2012)

How exciting! Welcome! 

I'd love to see pictures of your new hatchlings -


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## CDNPyxis (Oct 3, 2012)

I agree with Tom, I had a female Leopard lay fertile eggs for about 2 years after my male died, they can store sperm for a long time. 

Craig


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## Tom (Oct 3, 2012)

Those are DT babies my friend. No immaculate conception here. Just plain old tortoise breeding.


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## David f (Oct 3, 2012)

CDNPyxis said:


> I agree with Tom, I had a female Leopard lay fertile eggs for about 2 years after my male died, they can store sperm for a long time.
> 
> Craig



Our female desert tortoise is about the size of a mans boot so its hard for me to imagine her holding 8 eggs in her.. But here are a couple of images..And if you haven't see the two images above a few post up check them out..What do you experts think.
Their shells are 52 mm long and 42 mm wide




Tom said:


> Those are DT babies my friend. No immaculate conception here. Just plain old tortoise breeding.



Wow what a super female! When I moved here there were always desert tortoise's on my property. Its always nice to see things in a natural state. I fenced my property 2.5 acres and that stopped them from crossing. I guess there are many laws regarding releasing them. Any links to rules??
Thanks so much Tom for helping..So far all but one is out of the egg.


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## Eweezyfosheezy (Oct 3, 2012)

Definitely baby desert tortoises. Sulcatas from what I have seen and heard dont hold the sperm for nearly as long as other species. My brothers friend had a pair and they got rid of the male and the female laid eggs about a year after after the male was gone and some of them hatched. The fertility rate was far lower than what it normally was.


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## Yvonne G (Oct 3, 2012)

The author of this article is a well-known scientist who has done numerous studies in the deserts of the wild tortoises:

http://www.deserttortoise.org/answeringquestions/chapter2-2.html


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## David f (Oct 3, 2012)

emysemys said:


> The author of this article is a well-known scientist who has done numerous studies in the deserts of the wild tortoises:
> 
> http://www.deserttortoise.org/answeringquestions/chapter2-2.html


Excellent reading thanks so much.


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## Yvonne G (Oct 3, 2012)

I just re-read the article and it doesn't speak to the releasing of the babies. You can't release them. If you don't want them, you can turn them over to a tortoise rescue group or a chapter of the CTTC.


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## David f (Oct 3, 2012)

emysemys said:


> I just re-read the article and it doesn't speak to the releasing of the babies. You can't release them. If you don't want them, you can turn them over to a tortoise rescue group or a chapter of the CTTC.


I got that thanks.


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## Tom (Oct 3, 2012)

Those babies are gorgeous. Soak them daily in warm shallow water for a while. Do you know how you want to house them yet? Most people keep them hot and dry, same as sulcatas, and I think that is a mistake. At the very least you ought to give them a humid hide, which will simulate the burrows they would use to hide out in the wild, and a shallow terra cotta plant saucer for a water bowl. Contrary to what some websites say, they do NOT get all the water they need from their food.

I'd love to see pics of mom and dad.


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## ascott (Oct 3, 2012)

Also, the only way to assure that the two captive CDTs don't continue to produce babies is to separate them. It is ideal to not house males/females with one another---while the female will continue to lay eggs for a few years after they are separate, she will eventually run clean...as adult CDTs you know that they need to be permitted and the babies will not need to be permitted until they reach age two-ish 

They are beautiful, however, as Yvonne has shared---they are captive so they should not be released into the wild.....


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