# Is it cruel...



## stephiiberrybean (Aug 30, 2011)

to keep a tortoise on its own?!

I know it's the norm to keep a tortoise on its own and i know a lot don't mind it.
But given the choice would they rather live in pairs?

I cannot decide whether to get 1 tortoise or 2 tortoises.
I've decided to get horsefield tortoises as it seems logical. They are a good starter tortoise and I can always get a more exotic type of tortoise in a few years when i'm better prepared/more knowledgeable.

The ones I'm looking at are only babies and i've been told they can't be sexed till 4 years? I don't know if this is correct (am sure someone here can tell me if that is true or not) 
So if i got 2 there'd be no telling whether i ended up with 2 males, a male and female or 2 females... which is a big risk in itself as i'd have to re-home one if i ended up with 2 males or ended up with a male and female and the male ended up harrasing the female the whole time!

Also money wise I can look at getting one sooner. Whereas i've got to save up a bit more money for 2! 

Any suggestions? 
My table and outdoor run will be plenty big enough for 2 so no worries there.


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## tyler0912 (Aug 30, 2011)

they are solitary animals and prefer to be on there own but will be fine with 2


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## dbsneed69 (Aug 30, 2011)

Personally, I wouldn't house two torts together. If you end up with two males, they will most likely begin to fight at some point. If you have a male and a female, once they reach breeding age, he will probably stress her by constantly trying to mate. It's just my opinion. I am by no means an expert and I am sure someone with better understanding will be along shortly.


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## dmarcus (Aug 30, 2011)

Most tortoises are very happy being alone and depending on the tortoise they can become territorial. If you get more than one you have to prepare yourself for the fact that one day you might have to seperate them.


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## stephiiberrybean (Aug 30, 2011)

dbsneed69 said:


> Personally, I wouldn't house two torts together. If you end up with two males, they will most likely begin to fight at some point. If you have a male and a female, once they reach breeding age, he will probably stress her by constantly trying to mate. It's just my opinion. I am by no means an expert and I am sure someone with better understanding will be along shortly.



Yea. Thats my worry.
My other worry is when i'm out and it's all alone it might get lonely.

Especially because i often spend the whole day out with the horses. So it'd have me there in the morning and then in the evening but there'll be at least 4 hours a day where it'll be alone - if not longer.

I guess i'm just so use to animals that live in packs/herd and hate being alone. 
am more than certain a tortoise would be more than happy to have the peace to be alone for them 4 hours  Unlike my horses who hate me leaving and especially hate being left with no other horses around!


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## CtTortoiseMom (Aug 30, 2011)

I have 3 tort's and they all live alone. They all seem pretty happy to me. It is all they really know I suspect. Although I kind of feel bad when my boy flashes and shakes his hiney in his mating dance because there is no girl there to be impressed .


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## Guggie (Aug 30, 2011)

I have 2 Greeks and am resigned that, if they both turn out to be males, I may have to buy 1 or more older females to introduce them to. Either that or separate them. Right now they both look like females, but we'll see!


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## GBtortoises (Aug 30, 2011)

A solitary tortoise is not going to "get lonely". It will actually live less stressed alone than it would with another tortoise(s) with it for several reasons. Sexual & territorial aggression and food competition being some of those reasons that will not be an issue with a solitary animal. For the most part in the wild most tortoise species exist alone in individual areas and territories coming together to mate and at food and water sources.


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## Jacqui (Aug 30, 2011)

I am the odd person out here (and that's pretty normal ). I keep all my tortoises with atleast one other, usually it's three to a group. With hatchlings, I like three best, because it challenges them to do better, but gives the chance to be left alone part of the time, in my own personal opinion.

I know many folks have issues with male Russians especially together, but mine get along fine together. They do the shell bump, but only in the spring , when first placed with the girls. Mine also do not damage their ladies, another thing most commonly heard about.

Have I had problems with roommate issues? Only a few times. The one I recall best were three clutch mate Bells hingebacks I hatched out. They went after each other with serious intent.  So if you do pairing or groupings, you will need to watch out for bullying and then out and out warfare and be ready to move them into separate enclosures.

Some species seem to get along better with company, take the Redfoot for example.

To answer your basic question is it cruel for them to be alone? No.


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## Terry Allan Hall (Aug 30, 2011)

I'd suggest you start w/ just one...if that one turns out to be female, eventually get another female, if you must, as two females _almost_ always co-exist peacefully.

If it turns out to be a male, get it 2 or three females (no less) or leave it solitary...they're plenty happy enough w/o company/competition.


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## stephiiberrybean (Aug 30, 2011)

Thank you for all the replies.

I took my mum to one shop today to look at the horsefield tortoises and there was a fully grown leopard tortoise there on holiday.
She fell in love with the leopard tortoise. Especially after i told her that Horsefields won't get as big as that one! 

So i think tomorrow we're going to go look at some baby leopards and hermanns. 
Although i still want the horsefield. ! I quite like the leopards though. They have pretty shells.


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## Terry Allan Hall (Aug 30, 2011)

stephiiberrybean said:


> Thank you for all the replies.
> 
> I took my mum to one shop today to look at the horsefield tortoises and there was a fully grown leopard tortoise there on holiday.
> She fell in love with the leopard tortoise. Especially after i told her that Horsefields won't get as big as that one!
> ...



Get a Hermann's...why settle?


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## Jacqui (Aug 30, 2011)

Terry Allan Hall said:


> stephiiberrybean said:
> 
> 
> > So i think tomorrow we're going to go look at some baby leopards and hermanns.
> ...



If she isn't going to settle, she should go to the top and get a Leopard right off the bat!


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## Madkins007 (Aug 30, 2011)

My answer to this is generally 'a group is generally better, as long as you have the space and resources for it, but solo is fine if you choose to go that way.'


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## DesertGrandma (Aug 30, 2011)

I love my leopard baby and know he will grow into a beautiful tortoise. But, your first consideration should be your climate and your ability to provide the right kind of environment for your tortoise, inside and outside. Mine loves the warmth of being outside a lot.


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## Terry Allan Hall (Aug 30, 2011)

Jacqui said:


> Terry Allan Hall said:
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> > stephiiberrybean said:
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You speak *blasphemy*, woman!


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## Jacqui (Aug 30, 2011)

Terry Allan Hall said:


> Jacqui said:
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> > Terry Allan Hall said:
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Thanks for pointing that out to me! For once you are right,  just don't let it go to your head. I stand corrected, if she wants to go to the top, then she should get a Hingeback.  Second best would be the Leopard. 

Seriously tho, Hermanns are fine tortoises, too.


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## stephiiberrybean (Aug 30, 2011)

I'm getting a leopard... *runs under a rock*

We've discussed it and discussed it some more. 
I've researched and researched. 

I think small tortoises are cute but at the end of the day if your going to do it then do it properly! 
I'm always drawn to more unusual breeds and as soon as i saw the leopard today I was in love! 

For ages I've been looking at tortoises and been unsure what to get. It was like as soon as i saw the leopard I knew that's what I wanted. 

Tomorrow I go to see the leopards and put a deposit down on one.
Call my crazy for getting that as my first tortoise but i'm up for the challenge. Plus i've got all you lovely people to offer a helping hand should I need it.

Oh and i'm only getting one.... for now!


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## Cloud 9 (Aug 30, 2011)

not sure if this has already been addressed but does the "prefer being solitary" apply to all species of tortoises?

would this also apply to red foot tortoises as well?


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## stephiiberrybean (Aug 30, 2011)

Cloud 9 said:


> not sure if this has already been addressed but does the "prefer being solitary" apply to all species of tortoises?
> 
> would this also apply to red foot tortoises as well?



I think someone mentioned somewhere that some seem to get on better in company. Think the redfoot was mentioned.
I'm sure I read somewhere also that said that Redfoots do better in company than most other species of tortoise.


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## Cloud 9 (Aug 30, 2011)

stephiiberrybean said:


> Cloud 9 said:
> 
> 
> > not sure if this has already been addressed but does the "prefer being solitary" apply to all species of tortoises?
> ...



ahhh okay, thank you .

edit: also noticed Jacqui's post as well! oops .


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## stephiiberrybean (Aug 30, 2011)

Cloud 9 said:


> stephiiberrybean said:
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> > Cloud 9 said:
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No problem.
Am sure someone far more knowledgeable will be along shortly to tell you more- perhaps even correct me if i'm wrong


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## HipsterTorts (Aug 30, 2011)

Most people on here that own red foot torts keep them in groups or at least have 2 together.
I know JD likes to keep his in a large group 
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/Thread-The-Line-Starts-Here#axzz1WY9MkWft


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## Kristina (Aug 30, 2011)

See, that is what is misleading. Two is not good. You either need one, three, or more than three, and preferably female heavy. 

What a lot of it boils down to is that when you first start out, you really should start with one. That allows you to get some experience and have time to learn what their needs, habits, and mannerisms are. It does no one any good to go out and buy three babies and then watch all of them decline.


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## GBtortoises (Aug 31, 2011)

I agree with Kristina. I'd also add that when the time comes and the decision is made to add more animals serious consideration needs to be made about the amount of space that you will be able to devote to a group. They require a lot space compared to an individual in order to maintain peace within the group.

A group isn't always ideal (or possible) for everyone's situation. Much of it depends upon your resources such as location, space, time and money. Sometimes a solitary animal is better for some keepers. Just a pair is rarely a good idea with most species.


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## stephiiberrybean (Aug 31, 2011)

Thanks for the replies.

I get where your coming from Kristina and GBtortoises. 
I know how annoying it is to watch someone who knows nothing about horses go out and buy a top of the range thoroughbred and then watch them sell it a few months down the line because its "not right" When in actual fact it just hasn't been looked after or treated right!

I just wanted to know if it was kind to keep them alone. 
As all other animals i've had (bar hamsters!) have had to live in pairs or groups! So its strange to think of one being on its own and not getting lonely.

However after all my research and everyone's replies. I've decided to start with one tortoise


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## Jacqui (Aug 31, 2011)

I am glad you decided that. Did this also teach you that with tortoise, there is really no right or wrong answer? Each of us experience something just a little bit different and special with our animals. I may because of the species we keep, the area we live, how our enclosures are set up and how big they are, and then our own individual tortoises likes and dislikes along with our own.


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## stephiiberrybean (Aug 31, 2011)

Jacqui said:


> I am glad you decided that. Did this also teach you that with tortoise, there is really no right or wrong answer? Each of us experience something just a little bit different and special with our animals. I may because of the species we keep, the area we live, how our enclosures are set up and how big they are, and then our own individual tortoises likes and dislikes along with our own.



It certainly has. 
I guess it's like that with most things though. It's certainly made me calm down a lot about not getting thing perfect.
I'd have to be a pretty terrible pet owner to get things terribly wrong and we're all going to get the odd thing wrong from time to time with any pet we own. 

I think it also comes down to personal preference as well as tortoise preference. 
One owner might do something different to another owner because it suits that animal better or because it suits that style of enclosure, living or whatever better


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