# PLEASE HELP: closed eyes, weak, not eating



## lovebugaphid (Apr 13, 2014)

our new 3 month old Leo has been with us for 5 days it has not eaten much since it got to us, I have not seen it drink either, eyes are closed and possibly sunken, sleeps all day & rarely moves around enclosure. we have a powersun 100 watt UVA/UVB BULB, A 150 watt CHE, substrate is cypress mulch & organic soil, cooler side of enclosure is above 80F & warmer side is above 90F with a basking area around 100F. the tort hasn't eaten much since getting to us, very little if any. we have zoo med grassland tortoise pellets, spring mix & wheatgrass we have been offering the tort. we have been giving it warm water soaks, baby food soaks, & pedialyte soaks. I believe the tort may be dehydrated.

PLEASE help with suggestions of treatment. there are no reliable reptile vets in our area, only ONE place treats reptiles & their knowledge is very limited on tortoises.


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## Greg T (Apr 13, 2014)

Your setup sounds pretty good. Have you been dusting the food with calcium powder? I've seen similar symptoms with calcium deficiency. The best bet for food is chopped up spring mix or red/green lettuce. I suggest you start feeding the lettuce with powder and get him outside in direct sunlight for at least 30 minutes as many times a week as possible. Keep doing the warm soaks.


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## lovebugaphid (Apr 13, 2014)

Greg T said:


> Your setup sounds pretty good. Have you been dusting the food with calcium powder? I've seen similar symptoms with calcium deficiency. The best bet for food is chopped up spring mix or red/green lettuce. I suggest you start feeding the lettuce with powder and get him outside in direct sunlight for at least 30 minutes as many times a week as possible. Keep doing the warm soaks.



thank you so much for your response. I'm just worried since the tort hasn't been eating much. do you have any other suggestions to get calcium in their systems beside the calcium powder in the food? for example, a calcium soak? would that help?


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## lismar79 (Apr 13, 2014)

You can add a can of squash or carrot baby food to your soak water too, not for calcium but as nourishment. Some times they take a while to settle in to a new enviroment, but the eye thing is a concern.....


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## lovebugaphid (Apr 13, 2014)

lismar79 said:


> You can add a can of squash or carrot baby food to your soak water too, not for calcium but as nourishment. Some times they take a while to settle in to a new enviroment, but the eye thing is a concern.....



thank you for your reply. we've been doing carrot baby food soaks which really seems to wake the tort up. the little guy is much more energetic, eyes open & active after soaks. but after a while it goes back to eyes closed, barely moving again. thanks for your help & we'll keep up the baby food soaks


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## lismar79 (Apr 13, 2014)

Sorry I just seen that you had mentioned thatin you first post... when I had a sim issue my vet recommended offering orange, red, and yellow foods. Butternut Squash & raddiccho is a fav.


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## Team Gomberg (Apr 13, 2014)

I'm sad to read ...

Do you know how this baby was started before you bought it? 
How they spend their first hours, days, weeks before coming home with you plays a HUGE role in their future..


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## ascott (Apr 13, 2014)

Are you keeping high constant humidity in the entire enclosure? Like 80% or more? If yes, then keeping the cooler side at 80 is fine, however, if you are not running the entire enclosure at the high humidity then the cooler side temp you have at over 80 is way too high? and the warm side is 90 and the basking is over a 100? Again, if you are running constant high humidity in the entire enclosure then keeping the cool side at 80 is ok, but if not---you may be baking the little one...how close is the uva/uvb/heat bulb from the top of the tortoise shell?


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## Yvonne G (Apr 14, 2014)

Temporarily exchange your Power Sun with a regular 100w incandescent bulb and see if this makes a difference. Your Powersun might be a bit strong on a baby's eyes. If this is the case, when you put it back in, raise it a bit and add some fake plants to diffuse the light and add spots of shade.


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## lovebugaphid (Apr 14, 2014)

ascott said:


> Are you keeping high constant humidity in the entire enclosure? Like 80% or more? If yes, then keeping the cooler side at 80 is fine, however, if you are not running the entire enclosure at the high humidity then the cooler side temp you have at over 80 is way too high? and the warm side is 90 and the basking is over a 100? Again, if you are running constant high humidity in the entire enclosure then keeping the cool side at 80 is ok, but if not---you may be baking the little one...how close is the uva/uvb/heat bulb from the top of the tortoise shell?



thanks for your reply. we have been keeping constant high humidity at above 80% with a reptifogger humidifer. my apologies for not including that in the original post.


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## lovebugaphid (Apr 14, 2014)

Team Gomberg said:


> I'm sad to read ...
> 
> Do you know how this baby was started before you bought it?
> How they spend their first hours, days, weeks before coming home with you plays a HUGE role in their future..



the place we got the tort from says they were keeping them in a open top tortoise table, bedding/substrate was husk, with a UVB and 35W bulb. diet was spring mix & mazuri. sigh..my heart is sad. it isn't looking great for the little guy.


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## lovebugaphid (Apr 14, 2014)

Yvonne G said:


> Temporarily exchange your Power Sun with a regular 100w incandescent bulb and see if this makes a difference. Your Powersun might be a bit strong on a baby's eyes. If this is the case, when you put it back in, raise it a bit and add some fake plants to diffuse the light and add spots of shade.



thank you for your reply. we have switched off the powersun since this morning, but it isn't looking too great  the little guy is extremely lethargic & does not perk up as much as it did after soaks. i've tried baby food soaks, warm water soaks, pedialyte soaks, turning off the bulb, i really dont know what else to do. the little guy won't eat, drink, open its eyes, or move around. it's so disheartening and i feel terrible. we've been trying our very best to provide proper care & husbandry for the little one. im wracked with guilt & worry  thank you for your help & if you have any other suggestions we can try please let me know. thanks again.


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## Team Gomberg (Apr 14, 2014)

On husk is good. Anything but rabbit pellets. 

Did they soak the baby daily? Provide a water source?

Did you wean your Leopard baby into the hot and humid environment? When they are started that way, they thrive but I'm starting to believe that dry kept babies need to wean into the high humidity or it, too can have fatal results.


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## ascott (Apr 14, 2014)

Have you tried to turn all of the humidity creating garb off? I mean, let him dry up a bit...the air may be too heavy for him...as Heather mentioned, it may be too much of a contrast...I know living here in the High Desert in the arid fresh air is fantastic and the moment I am forced to be in a heavy humid hot space all I want to do is pass out and feel sick to my stomach.....at this point I would try to let the air receive some fresh dry air and see what happens....


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## lovebugaphid (Apr 15, 2014)

Team Gomberg said:


> On husk is good. Anything but rabbit pellets.
> 
> Did they soak the baby daily? Provide a water source?
> 
> Did you wean your Leopard baby into the hot and humid environment? When they are started that way, they thrive but I'm starting to believe that dry kept babies need to wean into the high humidity or it, too can have fatal results.



they said they soaked them daily. i didn't think to wean them into a humid environment :/ so I've since turned off the humidifier and have just been keeping temperatures high and manually spraying the enclosure with a spray bottle. should I start completely dry again? the little one is about the same as yesterday. weak & not eating.  he/she seems to have pooped today & yesterday though. maybe it's eating while I'm not around? but eyes are still closed  thank you for your input I really appreciate it.


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## lovebugaphid (Apr 15, 2014)

ascott said:


> Have you tried to turn all of the humidity creating garb off? I mean, let him dry up a bit...the air may be too heavy for him...as Heather mentioned, it may be too much of a contrast...I know living here in the High Desert in the arid fresh air is fantastic and the moment I am forced to be in a heavy humid hot space all I want to do is pass out and feel sick to my stomach.....at this point I would try to let the air receive some fresh dry air and see what happens....



yes, after reading heather's comment I turned off the humidifier since yesterday morning. I have kept temperatures the same but have only been spraying the enclosure with a spray bottle. it's significantly drier according to the humidity gauge we have in the enclosure, but not desert dry. thank you for your input I'll try getting in some fresher air into the enclosure. I appreciate your help


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## Team Gomberg (Apr 15, 2014)

keep us posted. I'd be interested to follow up with your baby.


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## lovebugaphid (Apr 16, 2014)

thank you all for your responses. a quick update on our tort. it's not looking good  I have not noticed any improvement. we have turned off the UV bulb since Monday. I turned it on for a bit yesterday & the little one moved the most I've ever seen it move in a while AWAY from the bulb. so I turned it off again. the humidifier is also off. all we have on now is the CHE which is keeping the enclosure between 80-93F. & we spray the enclosure throughout the day. we've been keeping up with the baby food soaks, pedialyte soaks and warm water soaks. eyes are still closed, only opens for a very little while during soaks. I have not seen the tort eat or drink. but it continues to poop white-ish creamy stuff. we have been using a dropper to feed the tort. we blended wheatgrass, water, pedialyte, tortoise grassland pellets & liquid calcium then strained it so we only have the juice. we've been able to open the little ones mouth without much resistance & drop a bit of the juice in its mouth. we have also given it a bit of zilla jump start caloric supplement. it's been a week since we've gotten the little guy & it's been the same. eyes closed, not moving around much, weak & not eating or drinking.


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## Yvonne G (Apr 16, 2014)

I think this baby was sick when you got it. You should contact the seller and try to exchange it for a healthy one. My guess is that it is suffering from a respiratory infection along with failure-to-thrive syndrome.


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## ascott (Apr 16, 2014)

Where did you acquire this baby from?


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## lovebugaphid (Apr 16, 2014)

ascott said:


> Where did you acquire this baby from?



the place we got it is called the serpent and the lizard they're located in Quebec (we're in the Toronto area). they were nothing but helpful & their animals seem well taken care of. I really think they're good people & I'll contact them to get more info on the tort & to see if they would work with us to maybe get another baby.

I feel terrible & my husband and I are working really hard to get the little one to thrive. I know it doesn't always work out, but still...


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## lovebugaphid (Apr 16, 2014)

Yvonne G said:


> I think this baby was sick when you got it. You should contact the seller and try to exchange it for a healthy one. My guess is that it is suffering from a respiratory infection along with failure-to-thrive syndrome.



oh dear  is there nothing we can do? I will get in contact with the people we got it from & see what they can do. thank you for your help.


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## ascott (Apr 17, 2014)

I would work with the little one until he is better or not.....keep him warm, keep him hydrated and be sure to bother him often (what I mean is, that when a baby is sick and weak they tend to sleep alot and can seem to sleep away---wake him up and soak him and wake him up and hold him and walk about with him and do this a few times a day, this way he can not simply easily give up) if you are able to take him outdoors in the fresh air I would do this also, the natural sun does wonders.....and also come to grips with the idea that you can do all that you can and the outcome may still not be favorable....but as long as the little one is trying I believe the human should to....

And I only asked about the seller so that you can be sure to let them know what has happened....


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## lovebugaphid (Apr 17, 2014)

ascott said:


> I would work with the little one until he is better or not.....keep him warm, keep him hydrated and be sure to bother him often (what I mean is, that when a baby is sick and weak they tend to sleep alot and can seem to sleep away---wake him up and soak him and wake him up and hold him and walk about with him and do this a few times a day, this way he can not simply easily give up) if you are able to take him outdoors in the fresh air I would do this also, the natural sun does wonders.....and also come to grips with the idea that you can do all that you can and the outcome may still not be favorable....but as long as the little one is trying I believe the human should to....
> 
> And I only asked about the seller so that you can be sure to let them know what has happened....



again, thank you so much for your help & suggestions. we truly appreciate it. no matter what happens we'll try our best & keep this thread updated.


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## lovebugaphid (Apr 19, 2014)

update on our little guy:

still sleeping a lot with little movement. opens eyes only during frequent soaks (baby food, pedialyte, warm water). plastron is still soft & still not eating on its own. we are still feeding the little guy our wheatgrass concoction & zilla jump start by dropper. we continue the frequent soaks, temperatures from 83-93F basking area at 102F. we lowered humidity to 65-70% to see if that would help. we turned off the UV light for several days to see if that would help with the eyes, but the little guys eyes still stayed closed. we turn it on when we aren't able to get direct sunlight on the little one.

but on a lighter note, weather's been better so we've been able to bring the tort outside & WHAT A DIFFERENCE! eyes open, active, even nibbling food! ONLY when outsideI don't want to get my hopes up but it's been great being able to see the little one like that. we're taking it day by day & so far today has been a good one.


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## kimber_lee_314 (Apr 19, 2014)

You can also add some liquid calcium to the baby food soaks. I've seen that help soft shelled babies. Keep up the good work and let us know how he is doing.


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## katiecpadilla (Apr 20, 2014)

My baby was in this same boat. I was doing all the same things you are and not seeing any improvements. I took her to a vet and he gave her 3 vitamin shots and neoymin ointment for her eyes. He told me to apply 2 x daily for 10 days. 
She started to get better the quickest when I started soaking her bedding with a spray bottle I use coco coir bedding and soak her entire cage with a spray bottle 2 x daily. I also covered her tank lights and all with tin foil. this has helped the most!!! i couldn't keep the humidity inside the cage with the open top. You may not need the other heat bulb after you do this because the tin foil holds the heat in so well/ I use the 100watt zoo med uvb heat basking bulb during the day with my humidity fogger and the heat bulb at night and turn the fogger off. this has helped me so so much and my baby is doing so well. You may be able to find the ointment at your local vet store. i attached a picture of our ugly covered cage. My husband is working on building her a covered top. The humidity seems to be what has helped her.


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## katiecpadilla (Apr 20, 2014)

Also my baby eats the Spring mix best. the Collard greens and turnip greens not so much. I am just focusing on her eating at all so maybe try just the spring mix. I also mixed in some baby food carrots to get her appetite going.


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## ascott (Apr 20, 2014)

How long ago did you purchase the uva/uvb bulb? If the tort livens up ALOT when outdoors in the sun I wonder if the bulb is still putting off the correct uva/uvb? I mean, a tort outdoors will act differently that a tort indoors....but I would check the bulb to be sure it is not worm out or defective???


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## lovebugaphid (Apr 21, 2014)

kimber_lee_314 said:


> You can also add some liquid calcium to the baby food soaks. I've seen that help soft shelled babies. Keep up the good work and let us know how he is doing.



thank you for your help. we've gone out and gotten some liquid calcium & have started calcium soaks (a couple sprays into warm water). I hope this helps.


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## lovebugaphid (Apr 21, 2014)

katiecpadilla said:


> My baby was in this same boat. I was doing all the same things you are and not seeing any improvements. I took her to a vet and he gave her 3 vitamin shots and neoymin ointment for her eyes. He told me to apply 2 x daily for 10 days.
> She started to get better the quickest when I started soaking her bedding with a spray bottle I use coco coir bedding and soak her entire cage with a spray bottle 2 x daily. I also covered her tank lights and all with tin foil. this has helped the most!!! i couldn't keep the humidity inside the cage with the open top. You may not need the other heat bulb after you do this because the tin foil holds the heat in so well/ I use the 100watt zoo med uvb heat basking bulb during the day with my humidity fogger and the heat bulb at night and turn the fogger off. this has helped me so so much and my baby is doing so well. You may be able to find the ointment at your local vet store. i attached a picture of our ugly covered cage. My husband is working on building her a covered top. The humidity seems to be what has helped her.



thank you so much for your help. I've been keeping up with your thread about your little tortoise & I'm so glad the little one is doing better  we have similar set ups I believe. we also have a fogger, but keep it on constantly. we're in the Toronto area & it's still pretty dry right now. we struggle to keep humidity up without the fogger on, even with our tin foil covering. so we keep it on all the time. thank you for your suggestions & I'll keep this thread updated.


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## lovebugaphid (Apr 21, 2014)

ascott said:


> How long ago did you purchase the uva/uvb bulb? If the tort livens up ALOT when outdoors in the sun I wonder if the bulb is still putting off the correct uva/uvb? I mean, a tort outdoors will act differently that a tort indoors....but I would check the bulb to be sure it is not worm out or defective???



hmm..I haven't thought of that. we just bought the bulb in..February I believe? but we do have a back up, I will try switching it out right away  I hope it helps! thanks so much!


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## lovebugaphid (Apr 21, 2014)

update: I'm just not sure what it is with our little guy. while inside the enclosure eyes closed, no movement, no eating or drinking. but when we take the tort outside it's like he/she's a whole different tortoise! eyes open & clear, super active, even nibbling on grass! I just don't understand it...it's like night & day. I'll be completely re-doing the enclosure tomorrow & have already replaced the bulb. for now, we'll try and give the little one as much outside time as possible. thanks for all your help everyone.


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## ascott (Apr 21, 2014)

Hmmm? Seems to me the little one knows he is designed to be outdoors (as much as possible)....maybe plans for an outdoor enclosure that is safe for him to be in alot of the time will help out???


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## taza (Apr 22, 2014)

I live just outside of Toronto, and yes we are having some decent weather but we still got three inches of snow last week. So unless the sun is out watch he doesn't get a chill. So glad to hear he is doing better though.


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## lovebugaphid (Apr 22, 2014)

taza said:


> I live just outside of Toronto, and yes we are having some decent weather but we still got three inches of snow last week. So unless the sun is out watch he doesn't get a chill. So glad to hear he is doing better though.



it's good to hear from someone in canada! I recently moved out here from sunny Southern California so it's quite the change for me. when does it usually get warm enough to bring the tortoise outside? & do you know any tortoise breeders in canada? we'd love to get more


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## lovebugaphid (Apr 22, 2014)

ascott said:


> Hmmm? Seems to me the little one knows he is designed to be outdoors (as much as possible)....maybe plans for an outdoor enclosure that is safe for him to be in alot of the time will help out???



for sure! this whole tortoise world is truly addicting (in a good way) I've been researching outdoor enclosures all morning. I can't wait till the weather is good enough to bring the tort outside all day. the little guy is truly solar powered


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## taza (Apr 22, 2014)

If y;our interested in another Leopard I know someone. I'll let you know when he has more. I'll contact him soon if you like.


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## lovebugaphid (Apr 22, 2014)

taza said:


> If y;our interested in another Leopard I know someone. I'll let you know when he has more. I'll contact him soon if you like.



sweet! I'll PM you


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## mikeh (Apr 22, 2014)

What are you using to measure temp/humidity inside the enclosure?
Digital reader or mechanical dial?
Mechanical dials can be very inaccurate.

Dual Digital thermo/humidistat, $15 at home depot.
Infrared gun $30. This allows you to know exact torts temp. You will be able to compare torts temp. while its active outside to what its like inside. 
How high of the ground is the MVB? Too low will drive the tort to hide. Too high will result in low UVB levels. MVBs are known to be defective or fail prematurely. Its a good idea to invest into UVB meter 6.2 or 6.5 in cold climate where artificial UVB is needed much of the year, to measure the UVB output of the bulbs. 

Can you post a photo of habitat?


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## lovebugaphid (Apr 22, 2014)

mikeh said:


> What are you using to measure temp/humidity inside the enclosure?
> Digital reader or mechanical dial?
> Mechanical dials can be very inaccurate.
> 
> ...



seeing that the difference in the tort's behavior from inside to outside is a COMPLETE change, it's got to be my enclosure set up. I'm just not sure what it is. 

our set up is in a large exo terra terrarium low. we have two digital thermometers, one of those dual temp/humidity dial things, and a infrared temp gun. what is a digital thermo/humidistat? would u mind sending me a link pls? we also have a 100 watt UVA/UVB bulb (NOT coiled) that we keep on during daylight hours & turn off at night. it sits about 12 inches above the substrate. our substrate is a mix of cypress mulch & organic soil. we have a 150 watt CHE as well. we keep temps approximately between 80F-90F with a basking area around 104F. we also have a reptifogger and have slowly been increasing humidity back up to 80%. we have water & cuttlebone available at all times & offer the little guy tortoise grass pellets, mazuri, wheatgrass, & spring mix, but I haven't seen him/her eat any of it. I think that's it? pls let me know i missed something


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## mikeh (Apr 22, 2014)

Your set up looks good for most part, but it looks like the tort does not like either temperature, humidity or lighting. I would experiment with parameters up and down few degrees to see how the tort response. 

Few pointers to help you tweak the set up. I believe it was already mentioned that 100w MVB and 150w che at 12" is too close, no matter what the thermometer says. UVB levels at 12" are too high for functioning 100w mvb, so is the heat. The radiant heat from 150watt che at 12" may be too intense. I would bring both up to 18-20". The che should be set up with THERMOSTAT, set 80F on the cool end. 

What readings do you get when you spot check torts temp. with the temp gun. (Inside, outdoors, at night)? The outdoor reading while active should indicate animals day time preference. 

Find a dark colored rock similar in shape and size to your tort, let it stabilize to room temp then place it directly under UVB light. Check it with temp gun 30 minutes later...What is the reading? Aim for 95-97F and see how the hatchling responds. 106F you are getting with the probe may be too high, because the shell is couple inches higher then the probe and carapace conducts heat more then plastic probe. Again, temp gun. Do the same with CHE.



The humidity mechanical gauge is garbage. I know you have digital, but a different thermometer, just in case. This one also has a digital humidity monitor. Many people it. 

http://m.homedepot.com/p/AcuRite-Di...perature-Comfort-Monitor-00619HDSB/202260980/

So play with some parameters. Temp gun should be used every time you are with the tortoise so you get a sense what temps trigger what behavior. When taking the tort outside it gets checked with temp gun often till you are comfortable with max temp the tort reaches. For example deck surface like your tort is on will get to 105F on sunny 65F calm day. Put a tort on it and it will get to 105F as well and higher as the shell conducts heat better then wood. 105F hot hatchling may appear to be active and running around but in reality may be panicking to find shade. If the tort is walking around but stops here and there to sniff/bite things its comfortable. If its just running without stopping, its important to recognize the tort may be too hot. From observing my tort I can tell the tort (yearling) is comfortable up to 92-94F shell temp, while in the direct sun. After few minutes of being over 95-96F it starts to look and spend few minutes in shade before returning to sun. A big deck like yours with shade far away may be something of a caution. I have seen my 6 month old to start overheat in 25 minutes under those exact conditions, cool sunny day with hot deck, panicking running in circles and by the wall looking for shade. Using a temp gun will teach you your torts preferred temps. Take some readings inside/outside with behavior and report back so we can figure it out
.


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## ascott (Apr 22, 2014)

All good stuff to work with....I do have to mention again, when a tortoise is outdoors they will act totally different than when they are indoors...if the tort is a baby then they will act especially "active"--which may actually be you seeing them instinctually trying to stay in motion and looking for someplace to tuck into (you see, they have a deep seeded desire to remain out of sight so as not to be eaten)....


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## lovebugaphid (Apr 24, 2014)

mikeh said:


> Your set up looks good for most part, but it looks like the tort does not like either temperature, humidity or lighting. I would experiment with parameters up and down few degrees to see how the tort response.
> 
> Few pointers to help you tweak the set up. I believe it was already mentioned that 100w MVB and 150w che at 12" is too close, no matter what the thermometer says. UVB levels at 12" are too high for functioning 100w mvb, so is the heat. The radiant heat from 150watt che at 12" may be too intense. I would bring both up to 18-20". The che should be set up with THERMOSTAT, set 80F on the cool end.
> 
> ...



ah, thank you thank you for your help. so many good points I've overlooked. this is why I love tortoise forum. I'll definitely raise the CHE & MVB & keep tabs on my temperatures. I'll update soon.


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## Laura (Apr 24, 2014)

if he is that good outside.. something inside is not right, or good...
I would make him a nice secure outside area.. so as not to stress him out everytime you place outside in a new place.


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## katiecpadilla (May 1, 2014)

How is your baby doing??


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## lovebugaphid (May 2, 2014)

Update: not much has changed unfortunately. On Tuesday it will be one month since we've had our little guy. Still not eating or drinking much (if anything)from what I've seen. Eyes remain closed most of the time except for when we get outside. 

We've continued the many & frequent warm water, calcium, baby food & pedialyte soaks. Also we have been feeding by dropper. I've tried vetericyn eye solution & gel for about a week. It has helped but the tort still keeps it's eyes **** in the enclosure. We were able to get some Terramycin yesterday after 3 weeks of waiting. & it seems to be helping A LOT. Eyes are more open today. 

I redid the enclosure & raised the che & mvb to 18" above the substrate. Temps steady between


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## lovebugaphid (May 2, 2014)

82F-94F humidity above 80%





Plastron is very soft  and I noticed yesterday it looks almost see-through/bruised. Scutes look sunken or depressed? Almost like the growth lines are raised.


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## Yvonne G (May 2, 2014)

Oh man...I'm so sorry. This is a very sick little baby, and I'm sorry to say it, but I really don't think he's going to make it. I don't remember if you've said you have a good tortoise vet? If possible, maybe you can get the vet to give the baby calcium injection.

The first thing that struck me about your set-up is that there is so much light. Is there any dark place for him to hide? He needs the d3 to make the calcium work, but it just seems so very, very bright for a sick little baby.


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## lovebugaphid (May 2, 2014)

& We haven't been able to go outside much due to crappy weather :/


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## lovebugaphid (May 2, 2014)

@Yvonne G yeah, I don't think this little one is going to make it either unfortunately. It's been sick for as long as we've had it. For now it seems we're just waiting :/ we do not have a tortoise vet out here unfortunately. There is ONE place that treats reptiles but I've been told their knowledge on tortoises is very limited. 

I think the picture makes the enclosure look brighter than it actually is. But I did put in a humid hide, log hide, fake plants & a driftwood piece for some hiding areas.


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## mikeh (May 2, 2014)

I agree with Yvonne. Only quick action of calcium injection may possibly save it at this stage if its not too late already.


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## Laura (May 2, 2014)

the lights with the screen, is blocking all the 'good light'.. and I think Way too much humidty for the small space...


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## lovebugaphid (May 2, 2014)

@Laura lights with the screen? If you're referring to the top of the enclosure we removed that when I redid the enclosure a little over a week ago and only have the foil as a cover. As for the humidity we've been playing around with it to see if there's any change, but so far nothing. We'll continue to tweak things to see if anything helps. Thank you


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## katiecpadilla (May 2, 2014)

Gosh so sorry about your baby. You have obviously done all you can plus more. Maybe its time to let the little thing rest... Best wishes


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## lovebugaphid (May 10, 2014)

Update:
Our little one is still here. Tweaked the enclosure by getting a smaller dome for the light fixture so it's not as bright. Have been applying Terramycin and it has worked wonders! Little guy's eyes are open now & he/she moves around a bit. Still hasn't been eating much at all & shell is very very soft  we have been continuing soaks & have added a daily calcium soak. It's getting warmer so we let the little one out more & it loves the sunshine. Today the little one ate dandelion, cat grass, radicchio & some strawberry. Not a whole lot but it's something!


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## dmmj (May 10, 2014)

If the shell is going soft it is very sick, and needs immediate help most likely calcium injections. I don't think it was anything you did wrong, sounds like a failure to thrive or a bad started one. The soft shell is the most immediate and grave concern. I will be hoping for good news and send good thoughts but time is a major issue.


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## lovebugaphid (May 10, 2014)

Yes I agree. A trip to the vet is in order this week. Thank you all for your help.


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## ascott (May 12, 2014)

As long as there is breath in the tort there is just as good a chance to make it.....sometimes the little ones have to ride on our will until theirs comes back.....just saying.


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## katiecpadilla (May 15, 2014)

oh I'm so glad your baby is doing better! 
she looks so much better than in the last pictures you posted. my leo is starting to not eat now... poor little guys!


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## Kathy Coles (May 15, 2014)

It's been said that tortoises are solar powered, and I believe there is something to that statement.


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## katiecpadilla (May 17, 2014)

@lovebugaphid I just took my baby to the vet today for a calcium injection and she died within hours of getting it. I don't know if she was to weak to handle it but I just wanted to warn you.... 
I hope your baby makes it.


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## Yvonne G (May 17, 2014)

Sometimes vets don't really know how much calcium to inject. They look at the instructions in a book, but it really doesn't apply to a baby tortoise.


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## Maggie Cummings (May 18, 2014)

Jeez, that's bad news. I am sorry. Was this an exotics Vet. Did you tell him?


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## lovebugaphid (Jun 11, 2014)

I am sad to report that the little one did not make it. it has been about two weeks since we lost the little guy. we tried our best and unfortunately the little one did not pull through. I want to say thank you so much to everyone here on tortoiseforum for all your help


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## WillTort2 (Jun 12, 2014)

So sorry.


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## wiccan_chicken (Jun 12, 2014)

Two little babies were lost, Echo the Leo did the same  This is heartbreaking.


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