# Abnormal scutes...



## RGB (Jan 4, 2014)

I have hatched 12 hermanns in past few months (thanks to great advice received from this forum!- thanks!)...
Of interest, 4 of them have abnormal scutes.
These first two, were incubated at 75% humidity and 31.5'C:
1. Abnormal posterior central scute:


2. Extra costal scutes on both sides:



So I turned the temps back to 30'C:
3. Missing central scute and abnormal shaped costal scute:


4. Missing/fused central scute:



They are all from different mothers. (Only God knows fathers) none of the parents have abnormal scutes.

I think they are super cute, and they are doing great. Healthy as all the other hatchlings!

I was eager to share these pics and was wondering...
Are there any long term health concerns?
Any ideas why this would be occurring?

I look forward to any comments....
Thanks!


----------



## wellington (Jan 4, 2014)

I can't answer your questions. However, they are really cute and there are lots of members that go crazy for the different scute patterns, you may have too fight them off


----------



## bouaboua (Jan 4, 2014)

Hello: I have no answer for your question but you are absolutely correct, They are so cute because they are so different.

I'm also admire you for your success in breeding them.


----------



## compassrose26 (Jan 4, 2014)

I recently started a thread wondering about if lower temps can cause missing or fused scutes because higher temps can cause extras... interesting! They are super cute!


----------



## Jacqui (Jan 4, 2014)

wellington said:


> I can't answer your questions. However, they are really cute and there are lots of members that go crazy for the different scute patterns, you may have too fight them off



Yes and I am one of them!  I have already talked to a couple of folks about my plan (or desire) to start a study on split scutes this year. Basically to get splitties caused by different believed ideas (too high, too low, genes, ect) and raise them keeping track on how they do opposed to their "normal" siblings and other information to try to better understand them.


----------



## Team Gomberg (Jan 4, 2014)

Jacqui, what will this study include? I have my first split scute leopard baby. "Her" incubation temps were high but I have seen no difference yet in her behavior or eating habits when compared to the regular ones.


----------



## oswego tort lover (Jan 5, 2014)

in my experience hermanni with extra scutes grow up female no health issues. same with gpb. alittle to high temps in the incubator is the cause. Egyptians on the other hand at least mine were male.


----------



## RGB (Jan 22, 2014)

I had a few more hermanns hatch... Including a very small egg... It yielded this 7gram baby with a really weird shell. Rechecked my incubator temps and they remain in 30-31'C range. Fascinating. Also from a new mother compared to previous.


----------



## SunnySideUp (Jan 22, 2014)

I believe people call that type of abnormality zipper scutes, because of their appearance. That's not the scientific term, of course, just what I've heard from other forum members. Very unique! And quite cute as well


----------



## Jabuticaba (Jan 26, 2014)

RGB said:


> I had a few more hermanns hatch... Including a very small egg... It yielded this 7gram baby with a really weird shell. Rechecked my incubator temps and they remain in 30-31'C range. Fascinating. Also from a new mother compared to previous.



So cute! And so unique!! S/he is no bigger than my polymer tortoise pendants! 

Oh, and congrats on your hatchlings!

May[TURTLE]


----------



## Cycere (Jan 28, 2014)

They're all so cute, but I think my favoirite is the last one the 'zipper' scutes  
There's another thread asking the same question, so far they've concluded its purely cosmetic.


----------



## RGB (Feb 9, 2014)

4 more hermanns hatched, two have a fused scute just like a previous baby I posted... And it is from the same mother as the previous, I'll post a pic of the two new ones next to the older sibling... Very strange indeed.


----------



## Jacqui (Feb 9, 2014)

Incubated the exact same way? Or perhaps something she is passing down to her young?


Are the males different that fathered all of these?


----------



## RGB (Feb 9, 2014)

Yes, incubated at 30-31'C 
70-75% humidity.
I have not found much info about abnormal scutes regarding genetics. But this certainly makes me wonder!


----------



## Az tortoise compound (Feb 20, 2014)

RGB, increase the humidity only and see what happens. You will have your answer.
Also every incubator I have used/owned or still using fluctuates in temperature more then a few degrees depending if we open the door, outside temps, indoor temps, loss of moisture, increase of moisture depending on the water temp, ect. Incubate at the temps you are doing, but during the last half of incubation turn the temps down a degree or two. We have seem an increase of perfect scuted tortoises this way. Playing around with the variables yourself, you will find what works best for your situation. Best of luck and keep us posted on your next clutches.


----------



## RGB (Apr 15, 2014)

Hi
Just thought Id show the latest funny scute pattern... Most of these I am isolating to a certain female although she may be associated with them because she lays the majority of the eggs.... I can't seem to improve upon my humidity level no matter what I do. It fluctuates from 70-80%. Temps remain around 30C


----------



## Yvonne G (Apr 15, 2014)

I think its time to buy a new, more accurate thermometer.


----------



## bouaboua (Apr 15, 2014)

RGB said:


> Hi
> Just thought Id show the latest funny scute pattern... Most of these I am isolating to a certain female although she may be associated with them because she lays the majority of the eggs.... I can't seem to improve upon my humidity level no matter what I do. It fluctuates from 70-80%. Temps remain around 30C
> 
> View attachment 76153




So can we say they will be mostly females??


----------



## RGB (Apr 17, 2014)

Yvonne, I work in a lab, and I had the thermometer calibrated.
I have a thermometer that will record max and min temps, maybe I should put that in... But I frequently check temp and the thermometer is always steady at 30'C.


----------



## N2TORTS (Apr 17, 2014)

there is more to it than just temps ......I as well as others can attest to that . ....and on a heavier note I could share some research about it, how it happens and why it happens (along with personal in house experiments for the last 10 years) but it tends to start arguments in here and I'm done with those .....you can always email me if you would like to discuss them .
JD~


----------



## sulcata2014 (Aug 5, 2014)

I personally believe that a "zippered scute" tortoise will grow up to be just fine! I wonder if the calcium, potassium, etc. levels in the mother at time of conception play a role? This does seem highly likely. I also believe that genetics may play a small role b/c those genes can be passed down, be suppressed or even skip a generation as they do in humans!


----------



## Yellow Turtle01 (Aug 6, 2014)

Wow, very interesting looking! I actually really like the pattern  
I don't know, maybe higher temperatures do cuase strange scute formation.


----------



## Amanda81 (Aug 8, 2014)

One of my sulcata baby's have this same pattern and she is perfectly fine. She acts just like the "perfect" scute ones. Only difference between her and the others that I notice is that she is more friendly with me and she has a never ending appetite.


----------



## RGB (Aug 9, 2014)

Amanda81 said:


> One of my sulcata baby's have this same pattern and she is perfectly fine. She acts just like the "perfect" scute ones. Only difference between her and the others that I notice is that she is more friendly with me and she has a never ending appetite.


Very cool!!


----------



## Amanda81 (Aug 9, 2014)

RGB said:


> Very cool!!


I had found one that had this pattern the whole length of the shell but some other lucky person got it before I could. I love the pattern and keep my eye out for more like it. I love the unique ones. (And the fact they are discounted) if I was in market for a hermann, I would attempt to snap her up. Someone will I'm sure.


----------

