# blackwidow spider question



## ascott (Jun 2, 2011)

This might be a weird question(s)? Does anyone know if a blackwidow spider can bite through the skin of a CDT? I ask only because a couple of times in one of my Tortoises burrow entrance I discovered one tucked up against the inside (of course both times I went to war and won) and that is what sparks my question...?


----------



## Missy (Jun 2, 2011)

Scary, I hope they can't.


----------



## Skyler Nell (Jun 3, 2011)

Hmm, thats interesting. I wouldn't imagine they could. 
I know a bee can't sting through the skin, it's too tough.
I doubt it would be a threat, especially to a tortoise that wasn't a hatchling.
Besides that, I don't think the spider would have any interest in biting a tortoise. In the wild, Desert tortoise burrows are often shared with rattle snakes and the tortoises don't seem to mind! I wouldn't worry, unless you have a large infestation!


----------



## jeffbens0n (Jun 3, 2011)

I was actually wondering about something along these lines the other day. I noticed a few wood or wolf spiders (not sure what they are) in my russian burrow the other day and wasn't sure if they were any threat or not, the tortoises don't seem to mind but they freak me out when I have to stick my hand in there.


----------



## Cameron (Jun 3, 2011)

i seriously doubt that a tortoise would be in any danger from a spider bite. certainly not wolf spiders and more than likely not widows. i have kept widows and they are really aren't aggressive spiders that everyone thinks they are. the really prefer to run away if messed with. i'm pretty sure that they would co-habitate just fine together. that is actually a pretty cool idea. i love spiders and tortoises...maybe i should throw a few in my outdoor enclosure and see if if they take residence there!


----------



## ascott (Jun 3, 2011)

Well Cameron now I just feel like an olger....I am more times than not the person who takes a bug or spider that has gotten in the house and catch em and let em go outside....and if I cross paths with a critter outdoors I step aside and enjoy checking it out then go on my way....have taught my son that as well...but for some primal reason a black widow in a dark narrow place brings out the protective side of me....I mean I have stopped in the middle of the desert road to move a raattlesnake as well as a Mojave green....but they are outright with their threat and I think widows are just crunchy creepy and are usually not as apparent...I wish I could shake that feeling...and I apologize for this as i see you have an affection and much better understanding of them....I must say that I saw one in a bug museum once in Los Antes...she was beautiful (and behind glass) but even as I enjoyed looking I still walked away thinking...whew I hope to never run into one that big...sorry

Thanks Skyler....true what you point out and thank goodness no infestation here....


----------



## GeoTerraTestudo (Jun 3, 2011)

Certainly the shell and scales are too thick, but where there is just bare skin, arthropods can bite through. I remember examining Florida gopher tortoises (for research) and finding literally dozens of ticks clinging to the soft, bare skin inside their shells.


----------



## ascott (Jun 3, 2011)

Ah dang.....I suspected they could.......


----------



## Cameron (Jun 3, 2011)

ascott said:


> and I apologize for this as i see you have an affection and much better understanding of them.....



no big deal, it's just a bug! i have kept many many tarantulas, spiders, scorpions, centipedes and roaches, i understand a lot of people don't. it doesn't bother me at all if you smash them, in fact if i find a spider in the house i usually smash them or flush them down the toilet. unless it's a widow, and then i will keep it! i got small kids and don't particularly like spiders crawling on the floor with them. in the words of Doc Holliday from Tombstone "my hypocrisy knows no bounds"!


----------



## ascott (Jun 3, 2011)

Ok


----------



## Skyler Nell (Jun 3, 2011)

GeoTerraTestudo said:


> Certainly the shell and scales are too thick, but where there is just bare skin, arthropods can bite through. I remember examining Florida gopher tortoises (for research) and finding literally dozens of ticks clinging to the soft, bare skin inside their shells.



How interesting. Was the Gopher an adult?


----------



## GeoTerraTestudo (Jun 3, 2011)

Skyler Nell said:


> GeoTerraTestudo said:
> 
> 
> > Certainly the shell and scales are too thick, but where there is just bare skin, arthropods can bite through. I remember examining Florida gopher tortoises (for research) and finding literally dozens of ticks clinging to the soft, bare skin inside their shells.
> ...



I found ticks on gopher tortoises of all ages and sizes, and generally the bigger the tortoise, the more ticks it could support. I used to find little 6-inch tortoises with about 5 or 6 ticks on them, or large 10-inch tortoises with 15 or more. The ticks used to get into the areas between the carapace and plastron in both the front and the back where there is soft, bare skin and latch on. I used to find tortoises with ticks around their shoulders and around the base of the neck, and/or with ticks near the hips and tail. The springtime had the heaviest infestation. The ticks would gorge themselves on tortoise blood, ballooning out to several times their normal size. It was pretty darn gross.

I should mention that tortoises are not the only terrestrial reptiles to get infested with ticks; snakes get them, too.


----------



## Skyler Nell (Jun 3, 2011)

That is quite interesting!! Very frightening though. The tortoises would have no defenses against that. Amazing how the ticks could pierce the skin, thanks for the insight!!


----------



## ascott (Jun 3, 2011)

This last winter it rained so much...for 6 days straight here followed by the darn cold....so I had to do a dig out of my Ghamara...in addition to the weather he had a gopher that would backfill his burrow...worried me he would suffocate on top of possibly freezing...so after digging with a hand shovel for what seemed like forever...my shovel reached him...so from there it was all by hand digging...when I slowly exposed his shell his head and legs had dirt pushed in around...at first he did not move...talk about freaking out calmly...I dug a spot around each side of him so I could get a grip and unwedged him...he was actually molded Into this spot....as I pulled him out I heard that blackwidow web sound and to the side of him was a pocket the size of a golf ball and in that space was a big fat juicy icky scary black widow...so I right away lifted Ghamara up high enough to check all under him and any crevice I could to make sure no passenger would be going into his new winter box.....so creepy....so while I allow them to construct their own little summer burrow I believe I will now winter sleep them ..especially with the way the crazy last couple of winters have been....luckily he so far appears to be my only burrowing tortoise...so far


----------



## marahute (Jul 25, 2011)

Wow. This morning my CDT came up from his burrow to eat, with a passenger black widow on his shell - as he continued to move, she was clearly not happy and moved onto his head. I flicked her off with a leaf I was carrying for him - and moved him fast & killed her. I just cannot stand them! And I'm happy to hear that getting rid of her was the right thing to do for him.

I'd be happier to hear he was never in any danger!


----------



## Yvonne G (Jul 25, 2011)

marahute said:


> Wow. This morning my CDT came up from his burrow to eat, with a passenger black widow on his shell - as he continued to move, she was clearly not happy and moved onto his head. I flicked her off with a leaf I was carrying for him - and moved him fast & killed her. I just cannot stand them! And I'm happy to hear that getting rid of her was the right thing to do for him.
> 
> I'd be happier to hear he was never in any danger!



Hi marahute:

Won't you take a moment to start a new thread in the "introductions" section and tell us a bit about yourself?


----------



## Torty Mom (Jul 25, 2011)

I squish everyone I see, whenever I see them! We had one get into one of our classrooms at school, lay her eggs and then one day.....tah dah little spiders everyone, classroom evacuated. It was a big nightmare. Now we are battling kit foxes, who poo everywhere and then the little kids step in it. UGH!


----------



## ascott (Jul 25, 2011)

Welcome and I it is freaky to think about a widow tucked up on him...I can't stand those spiders either...this is why we hunt them down a couple times a week, once it is dark out around 9 or 10... I know that they all will not be killed but the less the better...

and when those eggs hatch...IT IS HORRIBLE to say the least...so that is why once I see one I search for the egg sac as well..here a couple of weeks ago is when the first "hatchlings" hatched, I actually caught two sacs, so I ran into the house and grabbed spray adhesive and completely covered them...the other day I still could see where they were stopped in time...thank goodness


----------



## dmmj (Jul 26, 2011)

I understand people's reaction to black widows for decades now we have been told how dangerous and poisonous they are, but in all honesty I think they get a bad rap.


----------



## River14 (Jul 26, 2011)

I'm with dmmj here.

Can I ask in all naivety what it means "Jimmy cracked corn and I dont care" ?

What is cracking corn? Why should one care what Jimmy wants to do or not with corn?


----------



## ascott (Jul 26, 2011)

Captain Awesome....really? I hope you are simply trying to get a "for fun" debate going here...I hope you realize that if someone is allergic to insects a "simple bite" from the BlackWidow can serve to be lethal? do you realize that if a small child or elderly adult gets a bite from the BlackWidow they can become very ill and can also prove to be letal?

If a healthy adult gets bitten by a BlackWidow, they can become ill for 2 weeks, extreme muscle pains/spasms increased agitation and hostility...because of the way the venom attacks your body, you will have extreme pain, this you can not get away from.

You can research this yourself, these are not "tales" they are indeed facts...


----------



## GeoTerraTestudo (Jul 26, 2011)

I saw some kind of spider in one of my tortoise's pens the other day, but I left it there. Spiders are good at preying on insects, and I have seen a few fruit flies or gnats recently. I'm sure this spider will take care of them for me.


----------



## jaizei (Jul 26, 2011)

I move any spiders I find in the house outside but don't kill them. I've never seen black widows around my tortoises, but I have a ton of wolf spiders in my back yard and they don't seem to cause a problem.


----------

