# help now! (prolapse)



## Maggie Cummings (Apr 24, 2016)

I've taken in a very deformed adult 3-toed box turtle. This morning he has a prolaspe. I've read all what ya'll have said, but I've never had one. He's in warm water now, the emergency Vet wants $95 to start, saying she knows nothing about turtles. I've tried the sugar. I've tried pushing it in gently, nothing works. What do I do?


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## Kori5 (Apr 24, 2016)

I have no idea what to do but good luck Maggie. Hope someone knows what to do. Keep it moist.


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## Maggie Cummings (Apr 24, 2016)

I've got him in sugar water. I've tried to oil it and push it back in, but its so big I can't find his cloaca. And of course. my wonderful Chromebook won't download the pix for you....


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## Kori5 (Apr 24, 2016)

Could you try a sugar paste, thick one and wrap some plastic around it. I've been searching the net for you and that's what they say.


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## Maggie Cummings (Apr 24, 2016)

OK pictures won't download. Anybody have a laptop that works, I'll buy it...As long as it's not a chromebook


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## Kori5 (Apr 24, 2016)

Where is everyone? . Maggie how is the swelling?


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## Maggie Cummings (Apr 24, 2016)

@deadheadvet @Yvonne G @mike taylor @tortadise I've done everything we always suggest. Then I called my Vet at home....she says IF it was fixable it would cost hundreds of dollars. If I asked her to euthanize him, it would be $150. I really don't believe in euthanasia (nor do I have $150), so I have 2 choices. 1. Do I continue to allow him to suffer? You know it must be damned uncomfortable to have your guts outside your body. 2. I would have to euthanize him myself.
So do I put him in the refrigerator for 24 hours putting him to sleep, then put him in the freezer, hoping he's asleep and he doesn't feel his blood's getting icy. Can I overdose him on Baytril? It's an antibiotic as you know. I gave him a small dose of Metacam hoping to lessen any pain. There's not enuf to OD. Someone, please give me some advice....I really need input here.


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## Pearly (Apr 24, 2016)

Oh Maggie! I'm so sorry! Hope you've got it by now. Hope @Yvonne G has been able to help or someone else who knows. Good Joojoo going your way


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## Lyn W (Apr 24, 2016)

Poor thing - Googled this if it's any use.
Emergency Treatment of a Intestinal Prolapse in a Juvenile Tortoise

*By Nadine Highfield*






*A two year old Libyan tortoise was discovered in the afternoon with a intestinal prolapse. The prolapse was too large to be replaced, so to quickly reduce the swelling and prevent tissue damage, the prolapsed intentine was covered with table sugar and secured with plastic wrap taped to the top and bottom of the shell. *

The sugar, which quickly began to draw out the fluid, was replaced each time it became saturated.. By late evening, the swelling had gone down considerably. The tortoise was regularly checked during the night and in the morning was taken to our specialist veterinarian, Lance Jepson, to replace the prolapsed intestine and determine the cause.



























A x-ray confirmed that a bladder stone had formed, and the prolapse was the result of the tortoise straining to pass it. Unfortunately, the stone was slightly larger than the space between the pelvic bones, and could not be passed. Surgery was a very risky option with such a small tortoise, so the decision was made to begin a daily dose of allopurinal, and to simply allow the tortoise to grow to a size where it could pass the stone. This tortoise always had access to water, which it drank regularly, but several daily baths were also given to ensure adequate hydration.







The prolapsed intestine was replaced and a purse string suture was put at the edge of the cloaca to prevent another prolapse from occurring if the tortoise was to strain to pass the stone again. It allowed enough space, however, for the passage of normal excretions.

One month later, the bladder stone was found next to the tortoise which outside of a some minor swelling around the cloaca, was in perfect condition. The swelling went down by the next day, and the tortoise has been quite lively and with an increased appetite. We are continuing a daily dose of allopurinal until progress is reviewed by our vet, and we have continued daily baths to insure that the tortoise is drinking.







The use of table sugar can be an effective method to reduce swelling of a prolapse as a prelude to surgical replacement. The method has previously been used in sheep and cattle, and even in human medicine. Sugar is an excellent growth medium for bacteria, however, so it is imperitive for the tortoise to receive antibiotic cover to prevent infection. Any tortoise found with a prolapse should be brought to a specialist vet without delay. Do, however, protect the prolapse with plastic wrap to keep the area clean and prevent the tortoise from causing any tissue damage with its back claws.

Bladder stones are often the result of dehydration, however, other metabolic conditions can also be underlying causes. A tortoise showing signs of straining or painful urination should be promptly taken to a specialist vet for diagnosis and treatment.



(c) Tortoise Trust 2008


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## Pearly (Apr 24, 2016)

Ok, I found: make sugar paste, apply very thick to and around the area, then cover with soft moist cloth/gauze and cover with Saran Wrap, but loosely as not to cut off circulation. This area is also probably swollen. Not sure if there is anyway you could use gravity to make the fluid go back where it belongs. With humans we give antiinflammatories (Tylenol or Advil) apply cool or moist warm compress and elevate the area above the level of the heart. That's all I can come up with Maggie for now. I'll keep looking


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## Kori5 (Apr 24, 2016)

I wouldn't put him in the fridge. It sounds as a horrible way to die. I hope there is another solution.


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## Pearly (Apr 24, 2016)

Lyn W said:


> Poor thing - Googled this if it's any use.
> Emergency Treatment of a Intestinal Prolapse in a Juvenile Tortoise
> 
> *By Nadine Highfield*
> ...


Ah! So I gave wrong advise! Sorry, Maggie! The sugar needs to be dry!!!! That makes more sense!


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## Lyn W (Apr 24, 2016)

Pearly said:


> Ah! So I gave wrong advise! Sorry, Maggie! The sugar needs to be dry!!!! That makes more sense!


Not necessarily Ewa, the advice varies - some say sugar paste. One forum recommends icing sugar. I didn't realise the sugar was to draw out moisture, so dry would make more sense I suppose. I hope I never have to use any with Lola.


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## Pearly (Apr 24, 2016)

Lyn W said:


> Not necessarily Ewa, the advice varies - some say sugar paste. One forum recommends icing sugar. I didn't realise the sugar was to draw out moisture, so dry would make more sense I suppose. I hope I never have to use any with Lola.


Hmm... Icing sounds interesting


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## Lyn W (Apr 24, 2016)

Pearly said:


> Hmm... Icing sounds interesting


Not so gritty and dry powder I suppose is the reasoning there.


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## Maggie Cummings (Apr 24, 2016)

The sugar paste has done nothing. This is a big round red thing with what looks like intestine on one side. I was told maybe it caused from constipation, so I gave him some Miralax. He did pass something, more mucus then poop. So now he's wearing a dry sugar diaper, made mostly of tape to hold it all in. He wouldn't cooperate with his legs so they are taped in as well. He's sleeping under a CHE right now.


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## DutchieAmanda (Apr 24, 2016)

I really hope he gets better! 
But if not, please, please do not try to euthanize him yourself. It will cause him unneccessary pain. I believe every animal deserves a most painless death...

Good luck, I'm hoping the prolaps will get back in!


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## Maggie Cummings (Apr 24, 2016)

Thanks for your help, I've got him in a dry sugar diaper now, I'll change it in a bit. I hesitate to give him any Baytril. Then there's an appetite problem as well. If I can just get the swelling down....


DutchieAmanda said:


> I really hope he gets better!
> But if not, please, please do not try to euthanize him yourself. It will cause him unneccessary pain. I believe every animal deserves a most painless death...
> 
> Good luck, I'm hoping the prolaps will get back in!


I'm not sure I could euthanize him, but I also don't have $150.....


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## Lyn W (Apr 24, 2016)

Good luck!


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## Maggie Cummings (Apr 24, 2016)

I just changed the sugar diaper, and it's shrunk! Still couldn't push it in, but I put another diaper on him and hope it shrinks some more.....


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## Lyn W (Apr 24, 2016)

maggie3fan said:


> I just changed the sugar diaper, and it's shrunk! Still couldn't push it in, but I put another diaper on him and hope it shrinks some more.....


That's great news. From the TT article it looks like it will take several changes so hopefully it will shrink with each one and eventually be small enough to do it yourself. He's in good hands.


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## MPRC (Apr 24, 2016)

Maggie, If it comes down to it bring him to Eugene to be put down. I used McKenzie Animal Hospital in Springfield and they were wonderful with my little gecko. It was $20 for a 'pocket pet' and they even did an ultrasound to make sure she was gone. 

I also got a deal on an impaction surgery from Santa Clara Animal Hospital because they had a reptile vet who wanted the experience so it might be worth calling and telling them you have a rescue who you think you may need to put down unless they want to try to save it.


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## Maggie Cummings (Apr 24, 2016)

thanks, good to know


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## MPRC (Apr 25, 2016)

Update? Fingers crossed...


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## Pearly (Apr 25, 2016)

LaDukePhoto said:


> Update? Fingers crossed...


Yes, anything new?


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## Yvonne G (Apr 25, 2016)

maggie3fan said:


> I just changed the sugar diaper, and it's shrunk! Still couldn't push it in, but I put another diaper on him and hope it shrinks some more.....




You can't push the whole thing all at once. You have to work it back in. Push at one side, easing that side in and work your way around the swelling, tucking it in as you go.


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## Maggie Cummings (Apr 25, 2016)

He died this morning. I am seriously thru with rescue. Someone else screws up the animal, gives it to me just before it dies, not even enough time to try and save it. His prolapse was gray and yucky looking this morning. Yesterday it was vibrant red. I held him while he died. This sucks.

BYW, computer is screwed up again, all I can get is TFO. I guess that's one good thing....


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## spud's_mum (Apr 25, 2016)

maggie3fan said:


> He died this morning. I am seriously thru with rescue. Someone else screws up the animal, gives it to me just before it dies, not even enough time to try and save it. His prolapse was gray and yucky looking this morning. Yesterday it was vibrant red. I held him while he died. This sucks.
> 
> BYW, computer is screwed up again, all I can get is TFO. I guess that's one good thing....


I'm so sorry


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## JoesMum (Apr 25, 2016)

maggie3fan said:


> He died this morning. I am seriously thru with rescue. Someone else screws up the animal, gives it to me just before it dies, not even enough time to try and save it. His prolapse was gray and yucky looking this morning. Yesterday it was vibrant red. I held him while he died. This sucks.
> 
> BYW, computer is screwed up again, all I can get is TFO. I guess that's one good thing....


So sorry to hear that Maggie. 

Big electronic hugs and many sympathies.


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## Lyn W (Apr 25, 2016)

maggie3fan said:


> He died this morning. I am seriously thru with rescue. Someone else screws up the animal, gives it to me just before it dies, not even enough time to try and save it. His prolapse was gray and yucky looking this morning. Yesterday it was vibrant red. I held him while he died. This sucks.
> 
> BYW, computer is screwed up again, all I can get is TFO. I guess that's one good thing....


So sorry to hear that maggie it must be hard on you, but you gave it your best shot. The poor little tort may have needed surgery to stop it happening again which he possibly wouldn't have survived, at least he's not in pain now.


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## ZEROPILOT (Apr 25, 2016)

Sorry Maggie.
You are overdue for something nice to happen .


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## Kori5 (Apr 25, 2016)

I'm so sorry Maggie. Hugs from the three of us...


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## Pearly (Apr 25, 2016)

Oh Maggie I am so sorry! Gray color means necrotic bowel. Poor baby. You did EVERYTHING you could. I see your frustration though, and pain. Your work is important. Do something to take care of yourself. Always take care of filling "your bucket" otherwise the "giving well" dries up. Please do something only for Maggie today and in next days until you feel recharged


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## Cheryl Hills (Apr 25, 2016)

So sorry he didn't make it. You did your best, don't give up.


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## DutchieAmanda (Apr 25, 2016)

I'm sorry but thanks for trying on this poor animal!


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## tortadise (Apr 25, 2016)

maggie3fan said:


> He died this morning. I am seriously thru with rescue. Someone else screws up the animal, gives it to me just before it dies, not even enough time to try and save it. His prolapse was gray and yucky looking this morning. Yesterday it was vibrant red. I held him while he died. This sucks.
> 
> BYW, computer is screwed up again, all I can get is TFO. I guess that's one good thing....


Ah man. So sorry to hear this. Was this one that you brought back? I still haven't been back down there to see which ones you took. But they held on for quite a while.


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## Hector108 (Apr 25, 2016)

This sounds horrible, he is in a better place now. I can't imagine how you feel. At least you did everything you could.


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## Maggie Cummings (Apr 25, 2016)

tortadise said:


> Ah man. So sorry to hear this. Was this one that you brought back? I still haven't been back down there to see which ones you took. But they held on for quite a while.



Platypus died 2 days after we got home and this was the one with MBD, the bigger one with deformed plastron. He was real skinny and I couldn't get him to eat anything. Then this awful prolapse. I have pictures, but the computer is only half working. The other 3 are eating well and acting normal. One has shell rot, but it's not much and I'm not too concerned. I'm sure these 3 will live and be healthy. Even the little deformed one is eating and fighting for his food he's tough, and they are fun to watch.


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## DandR (Apr 25, 2016)

I'm so sorry to hear of this. Your work is very inspiring.


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## Maggie Cummings (Apr 26, 2016)

Thanks, everyone. These were rescues, very deformed, dropped off at Kelly's. So I asked if I could bring some home and make them healthy. So I brought 5, 2 died and 3 are healthy and active and eating good.


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## tortadise (Apr 26, 2016)

maggie3fan said:


> Platypus died 2 days after we got home and this was the one with MBD, the bigger one with deformed plastron. He was real skinny and I couldn't get him to eat anything. Then this awful prolapse. I have pictures, but the computer is only half working. The other 3 are eating well and acting normal. One has shell rot, but it's not much and I'm not too concerned. I'm sure these 3 will live and be healthy. Even the little deformed one is eating and fighting for his food he's tough, and they are fun to watch.


Definitely sad about platypus, he was 26 years old can you believe that lady had him that long in his condition. The others seemed ok here, sad that they perished though, not sure how old those were. Some lady scoops them off craigslist and send them to us. Some do great and others not so much. Rescuing is very difficult sometimes indeed. But don't let that get you down, they had a lovely happy trip back and great ending of a life with a caring keeper,


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## tortadise (Apr 26, 2016)

maggie3fan said:


> Thanks, everyone. These were rescues, very deformed, dropped off at Kelly's. So I asked if I could bring some home and make them healthy. So I brought 5, 2 died and 3 are healthy and active and eating good.


Did you take the teeny tiny one too? That was awesome and did very well here.


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## Maggie Cummings (Apr 26, 2016)

I did take the teeny one, he's a monster. His name is Tuffy. He will walk right up to a bigger box turtle and take the food right out of the bigger one's mouth. He's a crack up. I am enjoying him so much. I bought some bird wire stuff, and I am going to cover over the pond and put all the box turtles in there. Kind of a swampy area. I think they will really enjoy it there. The 3 box turtles of your's that I have now are healthy and active and I don't expect any more problems......


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## mike taylor (Apr 26, 2016)

Man that sucks . But at least you tried .


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## tortadise (Apr 27, 2016)

maggie3fan said:


> I did take the teeny one, he's a monster. His name is Tuffy. He will walk right up to a bigger box turtle and take the food right out of the bigger one's mouth. He's a crack up. I am enjoying him so much. I bought some bird wire stuff, and I am going to cover over the pond and put all the box turtles in there. Kind of a swampy area. I think they will really enjoy it there. The 3 box turtles of your's that I have now are healthy and active and I don't expect any more problems......


Yeah that little one fracked me up too. He was one of the original "saved" ones from the lady that brings them to us. Been 2-3 years since I had him until you took him. He's another stunted old wee turtle. Glad he's doing great.


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## Cherylp (Aug 8, 2020)

Kori5 said:


> Could you try a sugar paste, thick one and wrap some plastic around it. I've been searching the net for you and that's what they say.


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