# Mulberry trees prohibited in Albuquerque



## Nanchantress (Jun 11, 2015)

I've been reading here about mulberry bushes and trees and how the leaves are a favorite food of many tortoises. So I started searching for sources here in Albuquerque and discovered that it is *against the law *here to plant a mulberry tree! Well, so much for that....


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## leigti (Jun 11, 2015)

Wow, that seems excessive. Do they think it is invasive?


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## Nanchantress (Jun 11, 2015)

Pollen control and air quality apparently. Ban was enacted in 1994 but existing mulberry trees were grandfathered in. You just can't plant new ones.

I live just north of Albuquerque actually, in Rio Rancho, and have to have an exotic pet permit for my Greek tortoise, can you believe it? I looked into the law when a local sulcata owner was fined after his sulcata escaped and took himself for a walk down the street. 

But I digress...


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## leigti (Jun 11, 2015)

That's crazy too. Does Arizona have nothing better to do than to make stupid laws? No offense to anybody who lives there, it's government as usual.


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## Nanchantress (Jun 11, 2015)

New Mexico


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## Nanchantress (Jun 11, 2015)

I am hijacking my own thread.... Here is the article:

Tortoise wanders; owner cited for no permit http://m.rrobserver.com/mobile/news/local/article_4b2a8b72-daef-11e3-9794-0019bb2963f4.html


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## leigti (Jun 11, 2015)

Nanchantress said:


> New Mexico


Oh sorry


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## WithLisa (Jun 11, 2015)

Nanchantress said:


> I live just north of Albuquerque actually, in Rio Rancho, and have to have an exotic pet permit for my Greek tortoise, can you believe it?


I don't know about mulberry trees, but this sounds like a good idea to me. 
If people have to get a permit first, they can't buy exotic pets on a whim and hopefully get more informations about husbandry first. 

In Austria every exotic pet has to be registered, so the department could come and check if they are being cared for properly (but they hardly ever check). Permits are only needed for dangerous animals.


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## Nanchantress (Jun 11, 2015)

The animal control officer said he couldn't remember anyone else voluntarily obtaining a permit for their tortoise when he came for my habitat inspection....haha! But I'm a rule follower so once I was aware of the law I felt I needed to follow it. I have a feeling most people are unaware of the law, but if you get caught, it's a $500 fine and/or up to 90 days in jail. I'll gladly pay the permit fee...


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## Nanchantress (Jun 11, 2015)

leigti said:


> Oh sorry


That's OK  haha!


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## dmmj (Jun 11, 2015)

When you outlaw mulberry trees, only outlaws will have trees


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## Tom (Jun 11, 2015)

WithLisa said:


> I don't know about mulberry trees, but this sounds like a good idea to me.
> If people have to get a permit first, they can't buy exotic pets on a whim and hopefully get more informations about husbandry first.
> 
> In Austria every exotic pet has to be registered, so the department could come and check if they are being cared for properly (but they hardly ever check). Permits are only needed for dangerous animals.



People in other countries can bow down to whatever sort of government control they want. That's NOT how it works over here. This is a FREE country and we the people decide what we want to do without an over-reaching, inefficient, out of control, tyrannical government telling us what pet we can have or what tree we can plant. We don't need the governments permission to get a pet tortoise over here. Or at least we _shouldn't._ Frankly neither should you, whether you are willing to submit to it or not.

Our government is steadily creeping toward the type of totalitarianism that made us revolt in the first place, and let me tell you, we are one incident away from having another revolution. The tinder is sitting there just waiting for that spark.


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## Alaskamike (Jun 12, 2015)

I'm so with Tom on this over reaching government control. I can't build a shed on my own property with paying a fee and submitting plans for "approval ". 
I'm supposed to have a city permit just to have a dog , my cat too I suppose if I gave a rip to look into it. 
If I put up a new fence for my torts the zoning police want to get paid for it. 
Next thing you know they'll be searching my home for all my unregistered guns and wanting to count my bullets one by one to tax 'em ( if I had any guns. Hahahaha) 
But I'm weird I guess ..... Spent 20 yrs in Alaska and got independent of all that overreaching control. 
But ..... I would advise others to go by the letter of the law ...  
I'm just an oppositional cuss


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## jaizei (Jun 12, 2015)

_Refrain from posting about religious, political, and other controversial topics un-related to tortoises. These discussions tend to be divisive and detrimental to the community. We reserve the right to remove any offending thread and/or discussion(s).
_


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## Alaskamike (Jun 12, 2015)

I would argue that permitting tortoise keeping is about tortoises. But .... I apologize, I'll keep my government thoughts to myself.


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## Neal (Jun 12, 2015)

Arizona has a similar ban, as does Nevada I believe. The pollen they produce can be very high apparently. I did some research on it a number of years ago, so I might not be remembering this correctly, but I believe female fruitless mulberries are OK here. You have to search around to find a "legal" tree, but they do pop up here and there. 

Do you know if the New Mexico ban prohibits all types of mulberries, or is it specific to certain types?


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## Kapidolo Farms (Jun 12, 2015)

The pollen issue/air quality issue is used in many ways to 'control' ornamental plantings. Mulberry specifically came about, if my recollection serves me, because they were used a street trees, but the municipalities that planted them planted male trees 'cause' they didn't want the fruit falling on people cars, being responsible for the mobs of birds that come for the fruit and defecate on cars, etc. So males were used so no fruit. But males put out a prodigious amount of pollen. That this specifically occurred in your area, or was just an infectious opportunity for an overreaching city council person to 'do something', I do not know. There are workarounds, again if memory serves me you can get fruitless females and/or sterile males. So the law serves a purpose, but then so do the fruitless females and sterile males. With theses option for planting "non polluting" mulberry you can abide by the intent of the law and have a mulberry. Just saying. The law applies to the tree, not you, in my world view, just don't engage with a technically illegal tree, use a technically legal one. Technically you won't be polluting the air or attracting birds, the two 'real' nuisance issues associated with mulberry trees.

Or you could plant a grape vine, nearly the same for quality food. I'm planting some myself as well as placing mulberry strategically in open space near my home.


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## Kapidolo Farms (Jun 12, 2015)

Alaskamike said:


> I would argue that permitting tortoise keeping is about tortoises. But .... I apologize, I'll keep my government thoughts to myself.


Alaska Mike, can't you figure it out man! That moderator was being humorlessly ironic, cause of course we talk about USFWS frequently. So being an overreaching moderator employing the very type of thinking that lead to illegal mulberry trees (acting on my better behalf 'cause I can't act on my own best behalf) in a conversation about a tortoise diet item and the senseless illegality of it based on a political construct, like say USFWS, is ironic, YES? I know we were all cussing at each other and calling names allowing the continual interjection of religion unabashedly into the conversation, thank God it was caught in time. I forgot to take my government issued don't think critical pill this morning, sorry dude.


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## Kapidolo Farms (Jun 12, 2015)

jaizei said:


> _Refrain from posting about religious, political, and other controversial topics un-related to tortoises. These discussions tend to be divisive and detrimental to the community. We reserve the right to remove any offending thread and/or discussion(s).
> _


You are funny! Thank god I don't use illegal religious references as they run rampant elsewhere on the forum.


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## jaizei (Jun 12, 2015)

Will said:


> You are funny! Thank god I don't use illegal religious references as they run rampant elsewhere on the forum.



_Taunting, berating, or antagonizing moderators and/or staff will not be tolerated. Issues with our 100% volunteer staff can be directed to [email protected]_


The italics mean I'm quoting the rules and not just making things up.


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## Tidgy's Dad (Jun 12, 2015)

Out of interest what other tortoise food plants are banned in New Mexico, or elsewhere?


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## Alaskamike (Jun 12, 2015)

I think if you look at the State Websites, there are lists of banned plants in many states. Often due to what are considered invasive species, or some that carry diseases, insects or parasites damaging to local crops/plants or animals. Hawaii for instance has very strict plant import regulations as it is an Island chain, and plants and animals can do great damage to the environment. Florida, where I live is very careful too - trying to protect the citrus crops mainly.

If something is not native to your area, not sold in nurseries locally, and you plan on ordering it off the internet I would check out the State website first, or call the local forestry service, horticulture agent, etc. They will set you straight.


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## Nanchantress (Jun 12, 2015)

Neal said:


> Do you know if the New Mexico ban prohibits all types of mulberries, or is it specific to certain types?



I believe I read that the ban did not differentiate between male, female, or fruitless. The entire genus Morus was named.


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## Nanchantress (Jun 12, 2015)

[QUOTE="Will, post: 1121249, member:

Or you could plant a grape vine, nearly the same for quality food. I'm planting some myself as well as placing mulberry strategically in open space near my home.[/QUOTE]

yes I have 3 grapevines and my tortoise loves the leaves...


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## WillTort2 (Jun 12, 2015)

Perhaps you could find a grandfathered mulberry tree and offer to trim the branches for free.


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