# Questions about Intranuclear Coccidiosis



## cdmay (Nov 7, 2013)

I've been following some of the discussions about Intranuclear Cocciddiosis with great interest but there are some things that I am not clear on.
For example, I have heard of a collection of red-footed tortoises in north central Florida in which a single specimen that was lethargic and not feeding was tested for I.C. The test came back positive. However, none of the other symptoms associated with I.C. (such as excessive mucus, etc.) were present.
The collection of red-foots was a long term one with no new animals coming into it for a number of years yet the vet caring for this collection assumes that all of the animals were infected and thus should never be introduced to other animals.
My questions are these, if the collection has been closed for a number of years, shouldn't this disease have manifested itself a long time ago? Shouldn't a large number of individuals within this group become sick or died by now? Is it possible for all of the group to be infected and yet appear perfectly healthy and never get sick?
Also, is a false positive test result possible?

I'm not a vet by any means but something just doesn't make sense to me.


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## deadheadvet (Nov 7, 2013)

The transmission of the disease is still not clear. It is possible to have a closed collection and have an outside source bring the organism in. We have had a big discussion regarding this topic at he Daytona Reptile Show in August. It questions as to whether a vector or lizards could carry the organism into tortoise pens to spread the disease. We also wonder about biting insects as transmitters. As far as asymptomatic animals, it has been my experience of only seeing sick animals with the specific strain of coccidia that has been worked out as the culprit with INC. The DNA sequencing is very exact for the type of Eimeria we are dealing with. It will not show up on regular fecal analysis. Hard to imagine a false positive. If the DNA is there, the animal is positive.
False negatives are the problem. Could there not have been DNA in the sample tested. We base our treatment on those results. This is a very problematic disease that is being seen in multiple species of tortoises. Best advice is to screen collections and institute treatment as early as possible and separate out any positive animals to stop the spread even though we don't understand the transmission yet.


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## tortadise (Nov 7, 2013)

From what I know is basically how Evan described it. I will not be ashamed to say I have a few specimens that tested positive for it. They are in fact very long term captive red foots as well. One has been with me for over 12 years, and in the country for 20 years. He tested very low for it and has tested negative since then. But still remains in solitary from other specimens. A lot of what was discussed at Daytona(which was a great time with Evan and Dr.Jacobson). Is the shedding of the virus. Not enough is known I take it(correct me if wrong) is the shed cycle. So its always best to take multiple samples from one specimen with dates, to expand the detailed test results. One sample COULD be negative but that doesn't mean the animal isn't negative with it. Like Evan said. False negatives are the issues. Look no further for a lot of information on this nasty stuff from Evan. He is a great source and part of the ongoing research of this.

In regards to animals dying or being sick with it Cdmay. It from Dr.Koplos explanation of many many talks we have about this. That the tortoises can live with it. But tends to be somewhat of an opportunistic attaker. If the animal becomes somewhat stressed it can expedite the copies of the virus to take over and then cause physical issues like lack in appetite, mucous, and lethargy. I am definitely not a DVM either. But the way I understand it is. This stuff can be present more or so in different parts of the tortoise. Therefor causing a very broad list of symptoms. If it is in the liver kidneys, or renal system perhaps extreme lethargy would be the main symptom. But if primarily in the pulmonary system or adrenal glands. Perhaps the symptoms would be more of ocular or nasal discharge. Again I am no expert, but certainly have talked with many experts on this issue.


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## cdmay (Nov 7, 2013)

Thanks. Scary indeed.
So then, suppose a colony has been symptom free for a couple of years. Should one still worry? Or would you still hesitate to feel safe.
If you were going to do random swabs of a couple of animals does it make sense to test the males? I would think they would be the likely carriers just from all of the...'injecting' they do.


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## deadheadvet (Nov 8, 2013)

Just to clarify one point Kelly made. This is not a virus. This is a intranuclear coccidean which is a protozoan that lives inside the cell. It is not routinely shed in the feces, that's why difficult to find.
We think that it may be an opportunistic organism that seems to cause more issues in animals that are compromised with other issues going on. This is trying to be worked out but will not be resolved any time soon. Closed groups are much better off, but could be at risk if lizards or frogs and toads responsible for spread.


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## Tom (Nov 8, 2013)

A vet told me that in the case of crypto, another flagellate protozoan, that it could be spread on the feet and leg "hairs" of the flies that bounce around from enclosure to enclosure. Does this seem probable with this organism?


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## Sulcata_Sandy (Nov 8, 2013)

Tom said:


> A vet told me that in the case of crypto, another flagellate protozoan, that it could be spread on the feet and leg "hairs" of the flies that bounce around from enclosure to enclosure. Does this seem probable with this organism?



Absolutely!


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## deadheadvet (Nov 8, 2013)

Due to the seriousness of this particular disease, I am going to close in my whole tortoise area with screening material that will keep out all flying insects and all lizards, frogs, toads. I can not emphasize how bad this can be. The thought of losing an entire collection is enough to spend whatever it costs to ensure nothing can bring a pathogen in. I still have tortoises in separate tubs for 4 months now, until I am absolutely sure they are healthy.


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## TommyZ (Nov 8, 2013)

You folks have successfully scared the living sh1t out of me.... Is this something I need to test my new torts for??


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## deadheadvet (Nov 9, 2013)

Me personally, I test all new animals coming into my collection. Unless I have proof that the breeder has already tested, I test with the understanding that any positive animal will be returned for refund.
Otherwise I don't buy the tortoise(s)
INC has already turned up in at least 10 species.


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