# Made this simple setup!



## _Turtle024 (Feb 5, 2020)




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## wellington (Feb 5, 2020)

Sorry to be the one to tell you all the wrong things you did 
The enclosure is too short sided and opened top. Low sides and open top does not keep heat and humidity where it should be.
Sphagnum moss can be unsafe too use. Tortoises have gotten it tangled around their legs or necks almost strangling and lots of torts will try to eat it which can be dangerous to their insides.
The water dish with its straight sides can be a flipping hazard that's why clay saucers are recommended.
The lights sitting on the stool with the legs inside the enclosure where it could possibly be tipped over is a fire hazard.
Also it's better to not buy the 2 light combo fixture. It's actually for inconvenient to use then the single bulb fixtures.
Get a large plastic tote from a big box store with high sides. Cut holes in the lid for the heat and lights to sit on. Line the holes with tin foil to protect the plastic from melting. 
Read the caresheets for the Hermanns.


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## Yvonne G (Feb 5, 2020)

You have really put a lot of time and thought into making a pleasant place for your little tortoise to live, however, I'm afraid I have to agree with what Wellington has told you.


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## _Turtle024 (Feb 5, 2020)

wellington said:


> Sorry to be the one to tell you all the wrong things you did
> The enclosure is too short sided and opened top. Low sides and open top does not keep heat and humidity where it should be.
> Sphagnum moss can be unsafe too use. Tortoises have gotten it tangled around their legs or necks almost strangling and lots of torts will try to eat it which can be dangerous to their insides.
> The water dish with its straight sides can be a flipping hazard that's why clay saucers are recommended.
> ...



The enclosure is temporary, till I move out! The size is not too small. And I dont have trouble with humidity its always between 50-55. I rip up the moss and I can assure you she doesnt eat it, or get tangled in it. The stool the lights is on its also temporary. She's small right now and cant possible tip it over. I've watched her and tested out this water dish. She doesn't have trouble using it at all. She can walk in and out without a struggle. I do thankyou for the information. But all the lighting things are temporary.


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## wellington (Feb 5, 2020)

Wow, okay, good luck. You should be more open to learning proper housing and care, even if this is temporary. At least read the caresheets. 
Btw, it's not possible for the heat and humidity to stay constant in that enclosure. But what do I know, only been on the forum daily for 10 years and learned from the members that's been tortoise owners much longer.


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## Tony the Tort42 (Feb 5, 2020)

Wellington is 100% correct, just because you don't see problems doesn't mean there aren't any, and its not worth the risk. The moss is not going to make a large difference anyhow, so just take it out. 
Clay saucers are easy to come by, and are a much safer option. My baby had a feature he didn't flip on for a month, but today I found him plopped on his back. If he makes a slight mistake, he could risk his life, YOU could risk his life.
55-60 humidity is too low, I have heard 70 is desirable. He also needs a stable 80 degrees day and night, as well as a 95 degree basking spot. 
Please be more open, we want to help your tortoise. Wellingtons tips are needed if you want to raise a healthy tortoise. Not the kind of thing you want to shrug off.
PLEASE take wellingtons suggestions to heart.


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## Tony the Tort42 (Feb 5, 2020)

Almost forgot, read this:





Sticky: HERMANN'S TORTOISE CARE SHEET *UPDATED


Josh and I corresponded last week about making an updated version of the Hermann's tortoise care sheet since the old one we have posted here is a bit outdated and a little too brief in my opinion. So, here is the new one equipped with photos. Look out for the April 2015 issue of Reptiles...




www.tortoiseforum.org


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## wellington (Feb 5, 2020)

Btw, not being rude just too the point. You were pretty to the point that you were right and everything was good, so I just did the same. 
Again, good luck!


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## MichiganMan (Feb 5, 2020)

Just another person showing off their enclosure and not listening to constructive criticism. I hope the changes recommended are applied.


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## _Turtle024 (Feb 5, 2020)

wellington said:


> Wow, okay, good luck. You should be more open to learning proper housing and care, even if this is temporary. At least read the caresheets.
> Btw, it's not possible for the heat and humidity to stay constant in that enclosure. But what do I know, only been on the forum daily for 10 years and learned from the members that's been tortoise owners much longer.


 Yea I'm sorry! I really do care about my tortoises. Can you show me an example of your enclosure please!?


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## wellington (Feb 5, 2020)

_Turtle024 said:


> Yea I'm sorry! I really do care about my tortoises. Can you show me an example of your enclosure please!?


Not a problem. We all here just want the best for your tort which in turn gives you a happy healthy tort.
I dont have any pictures as those type enclosures I used years ago. Mine all live outside in a heated shed now. However I will search to find a pic of what I'm talking about.


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## wellington (Feb 5, 2020)

Any like these with the higher sides for enclosure. A safer water dish is any shallow clay saucer, the kind that go under planters with the slanted sides.


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## _Turtle024 (Feb 5, 2020)

wellington said:


> Any like these with the higher sides for enclosure. A safer water dish is any shallow clay saucer, the kind that go under planters with the slanted sides.
> View attachment 285879
> View attachment 285880


 
Okay thank you, I see now! Thx for helping.... I just didnt wanna admit I was wrong , but I understand I want the best for the my tortoise!


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## _Turtle024 (Feb 5, 2020)

_Turtle024 said:


> Okay thank you, I see now! Thx for helping.... I just didnt wanna admit I was wrong , but I understand I want the best for the my tortoise!


You mentioned lining the plastic holes with tin foil!!! How should this look?


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## Yvonne G (Feb 5, 2020)

_Turtle024 said:


> You mentioned lining the plastic holes with tin foil!!! How should this look?






I couldn't find a picture of what I wanted to show, but if you just cut circles the same size as the light, then wrap foil around the edges of the circles. In this picture there's wire mesh across, but wire inhibits the passing through of the good UVB rays, so you don't want wire.


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## _Turtle024 (Feb 5, 2020)

Yvonne G said:


> View attachment 285881
> 
> 
> I couldn't find a picture of what I wanted to show, but if you just cut circles the same size as the light, then wrap foil around the edges of the circles. In this picture there's wire mesh across, but wire inhibits the passing through of the good UVB rays, so you don't want wire.


 
If I only have wire racks, what can I do to hold the lamp up better. I dont have a lamp stand.


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## Yvonne G (Feb 5, 2020)

Put a hook in the ceiling above the enclosure and hang the light from the hook.


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## wellington (Feb 5, 2020)

_Turtle024 said:


> Okay thank you, I see now! Thx for helping.... I just didnt wanna admit I was wrong , but I understand I want the best for the my tortoise!


It's all good. It's hard for everyone to admit their wrong, including me. 
If the lights can sit on the tote lid and get the right temps you need then cut the holes just a little smaller then the fixture. Then take tin foil and wrap it around the edges of where you cut the holes. Then have the bulb over the hole and the fixture rim on the tin foil.


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## Blackdog1714 (Feb 5, 2020)

I have a CHE in the heavy Duty Light Dome and LED lights in the others. Only use CHE's in the heavy duty domes that are rated to 300 watts- I used a 100 Watt CHE and no problems. The holes I cut out of the lid are just smaller than the dome itself so the dome sits on the lid and I tape around to hold in place with duct (metal) tape


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## Maro2Bear (Feb 5, 2020)

If you are at all handy, you can fabricate a plywood lid for your enclosure. Cut holes where your lights and CHE go, etc. I made & used a wooden lid like this on our sully’s enclosure & it worked perfectly fine. The plywood provides a very firm, hard structure to mount or hang lights or set lights / CHE on. I actually made my lid like an aquarium lid, the front 1/3 was on hinges and lifted up for easy access for food & waterin*, the back 2/3 stayed still & held the CHE & lights.


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## _Turtle024 (Feb 5, 2020)

Yvonne G said:


> View attachment 285881
> 
> 
> I couldn't find a picture of what I wanted to show, but if you just cut circles the same size as the light, then wrap foil around the edges of the circles. In this picture there's wire mesh across, but wire inhibits the passing through of the good UVB rays, so you don't want wire.



Will this be better for now?


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## jso (Feb 7, 2020)

Tony the Tort42 said:


> Wellington is 100% correct, just because you don't see problems doesn't mean there aren't any, and its not worth the risk. The moss is not going to make a large difference anyhow, so just take it out.
> Clay saucers are easy to come by, and are a much safer option. My baby had a feature he didn't flip on for a month, but today I found him plopped on his back. If he makes a slight mistake, he could risk his life, YOU could risk his life.
> 55-60 humidity is too low, I have heard 70 is desirable. He also needs a stable 80 degrees day and night, as well as a 95 degree basking spot.
> Please be more open, we want to help your tortoise. Wellingtons tips are needed if you want to raise a healthy tortoise. Not the kind of thing you want to shrug off.
> PLEASE take wellingtons suggestions to heart.


Why would a _Hermann’s _tortoise, originally from Southern Europe, require “a stable 80 degrees day _and night” _? A night-time drop in temperature is perfectly natural (and possibly even beneficial). A visit to areas where these tortoises come from would confirm that lower temperatures at night time are very common. I’m relieved to see the hermann’s caresheet often referred to on here _does _suggest a night-time drop of up to 15* is acceptable. (Maybe a different story if we were talking about a _tropical_ tortoise such as a Redfoot coming from an area where temps _are _more constant day and night)


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## Blackdog1714 (Feb 7, 2020)

Baby tortoises require warmer temps all day as they don’t have the mass to maintain warmth they acquired during the day.


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## wellington (Feb 7, 2020)

jso said:


> Why would a _Hermann’s _tortoise, originally from Southern Europe, require “a stable 80 degrees day _and night” _? A night-time drop in temperature is perfectly natural (and possibly even beneficial). A visit to areas where these tortoises come from would confirm that lower temperatures at night time are very common. I’m relieved to see the hermann’s caresheet often referred to on here _does _suggest a night-time drop of up to 15* is acceptable. (Maybe a different story if we were talking about a _tropical_ tortoise such as a Redfoot coming from an area where temps _are _more constant day and night)





Blackdog1714 said:


> Baby tortoises require warmer temps all day as they don’t have the mass to maintain warmth they acquired during the day.


Not really true for all species. Russians and Hermanns are two that can take cooler night temps. I don't know all that can.


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## wellington (Feb 7, 2020)

_Turtle024 said:


> Will this be better for now?
> View attachment 285887
> View attachment 285888


I think that's a tote on top of a tote? Making taller sides and mostly enclosed. Yes that will work. Just be sure the top one can't be pushed off the other one, causing a fire or the little one to get burnt.


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## jso (Feb 7, 2020)

wellington said:


> Not really true for all species. Russians and Hermanns are two that can take cooler night temps. I don't know all that can.


Quite. Testudo graeca would also experience cold nights, especially graeca ibera living at higher altitudes...
It’s important that advice about set-ups is related to the species being kept.


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## jso (Feb 7, 2020)

Blackdog1714 said:


> Baby tortoises require warmer temps all day as they don’t have the mass to maintain warmth they acquired during the day.


They don’t _need _to maintain their warmth. They’re not mammals. They cool down at night, and warm up again in the daytime. I think it’s called beng ectothermic? That’s how they survive in nature with no-one looking after them.


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## Little Yovu (Feb 7, 2020)

Maro2Bear said:


> If you are at all handy, you can fabricate a plywood lid for your enclosure. Cut holes where your lights and CHE go, etc. I made & used a wooden lid like this on our sully’s enclosure & it worked perfectly fine. The plywood provides a very firm, hard structure to mount or hang lights or set lights / CHE on. I actually made my lid like an aquarium lid, the front 1/3 was on hinges and lifted up for easy access for food & waterin*, the back 2/3 stayed still & held the CHE & lights.


Can you please post pictures?


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## wellington (Feb 7, 2020)

jso said:


> Quite. Testudo graeca would also experience cold nights, especially graeca ibera living at higher altitudes...
> It’s important that advice about set-ups is related to the species being kept.


Yes it is and I'm not the one that gave the wrong temp advice.


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## jso (Feb 8, 2020)

wellington said:


> Yes it is and I'm not the one that gave the wrong temp advice.


No, I know. Just continuing the discussion!


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## Tony the Tort42 (Feb 8, 2020)

Huh the care sheet on here for hermanns says 80 degrees day and night. I dont keep hermans, that was from the care sheet link i posted


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## Tony the Tort42 (Feb 8, 2020)

Oh never mind, it says low 70s at night, mid 80s during day. my mistake.


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## jso (Feb 8, 2020)

Tony the Tort42 said:


> Oh never mind, it says low 70s at night, mid 80s during day. my mistake.


Glad that was resolved. Hope the new keeper has followed this thread, or at least read the care sheet!


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## Tony the Tort42 (Feb 8, 2020)

jso said:


> Glad that was resolved. Hope the new keeper has followed this thread, or at least read the care sheet!


Im sure his tort would be fine with his tort at 80 during the night, but its not natural


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## jso (Feb 8, 2020)

Tony the Tort42 said:


> Im sure his tort would be fine with his tort at 80 during the night, but its not natural


True. And I wonder what the long-term effects would be of running a diurnal tortoise at constant daytime temperatures during the night? Actually they can cope with night-time temperatures even lower than low 70s : low 60s would be ok. Mine, when they’re indoors, do well with normal room temperatures at night time. No extra night time heating.


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