# Mating/courtship questions?



## stojanovski92113 (Aug 22, 2014)

I have four red footed torts. Big Red who is 13 inches who has recently started the mating thang?? However...I was told by the vet she was a female & she is mimicking the male part. I find her on top of other torts a lot!!!! I have yet to see a penis & she makes very loud clucking sounds & noises. She bothers my other three tortoise like there is no tomorrow. She does the bobbing of the head thing constantly too. She's miserable! I talked to a guy at a pet store who has like 15 red foots & he went on saying that I need to separate my tortoise & I have a male for sure when it's doing the head bobbing. Big red is not concave on the bottom (plastron) she's pretty flat. And that the other thing the guy said at the pet store that in captivity they don't always concave. Big red is not aggressive with my almost 11", 8", & the 5 inch she nipped at a few times but that was a while ago. I will put pics for your thoughts of boy or girl.


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## Yvonne G (Aug 22, 2014)

That really looks like a boy tail to me, however, I'm really no good at I.D.ing the sexes of the RF tortoises. The concave plastron doesn't occur until the male is well into his sexual maturity. So the flat plastron at this point isn't a good indicator. Let's ask @N2TORTS if he can tell us the sex of this tortoise.


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## N2TORTS (Aug 22, 2014)

Hello ....well few things ....for some reason I can't open up your jpg. image? (problem my be on my end ) Now on your tortoise.....Mature females will also mimic male courting behaviors just as you described. Head bobbing, mounting other torts, vocalization and even subtle nips. They may also at the size , age and maturity can show some-what of a "cave" in their plastron. Your Pet store guy is giving you some wrong info. Large females will show these traits as being the "Alpha Female" and will let others know. Perhaps a better picture showing more of the tail section and I'm sure there are many of us who can help you out with sexing it correctly. I will also add "my own" experience that there is much on paper , word of mouth and such , of wrong information and so many variability's on how we keep our tortoises that it is hard to set in stone and use one source as "concrete". One that comes to mind is the sex ratio within herds of Redfoots ....and the ever so quoted "you can't keep two males together" ect. Well my friend that is simply not true as the last 10+ years I have had 3 male Cherry Heads together with zero problems. Now I might also add there are 9 mature and willing females to keep those boys happy  along 1200sf. of yard space for them and the So Cal weather. 
I do take my RF's pretty darn serious , and have hatched and raised into adult hood many of times. 
JD~


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## N2TORTS (Aug 22, 2014)

here is an example of a large Northern Gal .......Notice the dip ..?




Now a Mature Cherry Head Female ....again "not a true flat"




Here a Mature CherryHead Male




and another example of mis info ....."all cherry heads are marbled" ....


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## stojanovski92113 (Aug 22, 2014)

Ok when I get home from work I will send some better pics of my tortoise. Thanks for your information & pictures. I have read information about females mimicking what males do however she's non stop & I'm not sure if I should separate her. I will say my other torts Do Not Like it!!!!! But they are all eating and acting normal. I just don't want no stress from other ones. Thanks again!


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## mike taylor (Aug 22, 2014)

It looks female to me .


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## Yvonne G (Aug 22, 2014)

They sometimes get obnoxious when they're going through "puberty." The behaviour slows down or stops eventually.

@N2TORTS - I've opened the pictures to full size. Can you see it better now?


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## N2TORTS (Aug 22, 2014)

Yvonne G said:


> They sometimes get obnoxious when they're going through "puberty." The behaviour slows down or stops eventually.
> 
> @N2TORTS - I've opened the pictures to full size. Can you see it better now?


 ***Yes Yvonne ^5 .......and for the OP ...ya got a Female there ..!


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## stojanovski92113 (Aug 22, 2014)

Anything suggestions on what to do with this situation??


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## N2TORTS (Aug 22, 2014)

what are the other torts sexes within your group and how much room do they have ? Do you plan on breeding ?


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## stojanovski92113 (Aug 22, 2014)

I will take pictures when I get home tonight. They are in a tortoise table 4 x 6. To be honest never thought much about breeding until now. I would need some Help in that area for sure!!


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## Yvonne G (Aug 22, 2014)

Plenty of hiding places and a large, well-planted habitat will help. With lots of sight barriers (plants) the tortoises can get out of sight of the pushy one. Even constructing half walls through the middle will give them sight barriers.


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## N2TORTS (Aug 22, 2014)

Yvonne is spot on with that advice ...and not to be a thorn in the bush , but 4x6 is pretty small for 4 torts that are sub adult /adults. Now this may be just to "house them" while your at work or night time retreat , and hopefully they get to engage in a yard and sunshine. But again for the whole process of mating rights and rituals, escape for time alone, or finding a hiding spot not to be bullied all day.... space is a huge factor to the amount and size, productivity and attitudes within the herd. Natural space is a major and very effective claim , to produce RF's through out the year. At least in my experience ....Here is my RF and Cherry Set up (separate enclosures) and some other out side pens for various other torts I own.


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## stojanovski92113 (Aug 22, 2014)

That is an awesome set up!! Yes my enclosure is in the works to be bigger & better, but they do go outside quite often. Living in Mi & with in laws is not as easy one more year & I can have my outside enclosure!!!!! I'm going to up load pictures of my other torts now. I hope you don't have issues. Thanks for sharing your pictures with me!


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## Teodora'sDAD (Aug 22, 2014)

n2torts- What a wonderful setup! Looks just like normal landscaping.


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## stojanovski92113 (Aug 22, 2014)

This tortoise is Junior...I think of him as a male since day 1. When Big Red was introduced to Junior she did the non stop head bobbing thing.


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## stojanovski92113 (Aug 22, 2014)

This one is Speedy, I have always thought of her as a girl.


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## stojanovski92113 (Aug 22, 2014)

Yvonne G said:


> Plenty of hiding places and a large, well-planted habitat will help. With lots of sight barriers (plants) the tortoises can get out of sight of the pushy one. Even constructing half walls through the middle will give them sight barriers.


Sounds like good advice Yvonne!!! Thanks  My husband and I have to re-do my tortoise table. It was built & given to me when I came back from my honeymoon. It was so nice a friend of mine did that for me & my torts.


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