# Best tortoise for a Beginner??



## Austin (Feb 22, 2009)

I did search first, and found some info. But for my sake, Ill ask again.. What is the best tortoise species for a beginner in my situation?

I live in California, in an apartment. Good amount of room, indoor and out, never really rains here, or too cold. Apartment mainly sits at 75 degrees but ill buy a nice big tank with heating pad and heating lamp for him. I take great care and focus with animals.

I do want a smaller tortoise that will not grow big.. Looking for the one who will grow to be the smallest adult (on average of course) would be preferred. 12' or smaller as an adult would be ideal.

I have heard about a bunch like Greek, Russian, but mostly i like the look of Red-Footed tortoises. I hear/read they dont grow too big and are nice to have. 

Any suggestions, info, tips, advice etc.. much appreciated!

Also, how long does it usually take for the size increases? ( i know its gradual) ..But my friend has a greek tortoise and its 6 months old and still the size of a plum. 3-4 inches..

Thanks!

-Austin


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## Yvonne G (Feb 22, 2009)

Hi Austin: In MY OPINION, tortoises belong outside. Having said that, I realize there are times when we have to keep them inside, but long term, if you can't arrange to have a habitat outside for a tortoise, I don't believe you should get one. Of all the tortoises mentioned, in my opinion, the one best kept indoors would be a red foot. Reason I say that is because they can get their Vit. d from their food, while a grassland tortoise can't. The redfoot also doesn't require all the lights that you need to keep a grassland tortoise healthy. I'll defer to someone more knowledgeable about redfoots to give you more info. Just my opinion.

Yvonne


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## Austin (Feb 22, 2009)

Thank you Yvonne! i will take him out with me to fields.. and play with him, i love going outdoors, but for living quarters, it will be inside. But yes, he will get lots of sidewalk/grassy hill action on a DAILY basis.

Red footed is the one i WANT.

so i hope it will be the best choice for a mainly indoors living but outdoors playing tortoise and yes ill take great care in supervision of him.


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## ArkansasKelly (Feb 22, 2009)

Check out www.redfoots.com and www.turtletary.com for great info on redfoot care.

They are fantastic torts!

ARKelly


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## Laura (Feb 22, 2009)

Hi,, Torts dont really 'play' well. and they tend to disappear when taken out for 'walks'. you have to be VERY carefull of predators outside, this includes, cats, dogs, and crows, and if you let him walk on grass in a park or your complex they very often use chemicals and fertilizers that can harm or even kill a young tortoise. 
Also instead of getting a hatchling which can be very sensitive.. consider looking for a rescue. An older animal that needs a home. These cretures have a long lifespan.. so getting a 10 year old is no big deal! you will have it for YEARS!


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## carrilac (Feb 22, 2009)

I was just in your same situation trying to figure what would be the best type of tortoise for my family. We live in San Diego and while we do have a yard it's not very big. So we didnÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t want something large like a sulcatta taking over. We finally decided on a redroot and are so happy about it! My little Sophie is a hatchling and just beautiful. I've had her for almost 2 weeks now and she is becoming more personable every day.
For me not keeping tortoises before, they remind me more of the koi fish I kept than any other type of animal I've had (I hope this is not an unfair analogy). I used to love watching my fish grow and at feeding time they would swim up to me and even hang out on side of the pond after they were fed. This is what I'm finding my tortoise is like. She doesnÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t like to be pet or carried (maybe she will someday) and looks at me as a "food god" more than anything else.
I'm saying this because they arenÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t like some of the cuddlier creatures I've known that would enjoy being carried to a field. However you mentioned that you have an outdoor area to your apt, and I think that this would be good for a redroot. Their diet is more made up of leaves, fruit and a little bit of protein (cat food) rather than grass so you wouldnÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t need to have a grassy space like you need with other species.


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## Austin (Feb 22, 2009)

ok, im sorry if it sounds selfish but i want a cute hatchling. and i want to experience raising it from that baby stage. i do understand that they live long, but that's my preference..

thanks for the info guys.
please keep the type suggestions and advice coming.

-Austin


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## tortelini (Feb 22, 2009)

Hatchlings are cute.....it's hard to resist  After years of having torts, I finally got my first hatchling just a few weeks ago. IMO however, a hatchling is not a "beginner" tortoise. Small mistakes can often have tragic results! I know that we probably won't talk you out of it though so, my advise is to research like crazy and think honestly about things like providing an outdoor enclosure, getting a good herp vet(I've been twice with mine already)......and be prepared, no tanks or heating pads please!


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## jtpaintball5 (Feb 23, 2009)

Hey Austin (Thats my name too). I wanted to see if you'd looked into the Egyptian tortoises. I've been looking online for one myself, but I do know they're the second smallest tortoise in the world. They're awesome little guys. Check them out too!


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## Austin (Feb 23, 2009)

tortelini- no tanks or heating pads? meaning use what???

please, advise, thanks

Jt- Austin is a great name ... Egyptian? hmm.. ill look into it.

and everyone- yes ive done alot of research, and i plan on doing more.. i will be careful.


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## KQ6AR (Feb 23, 2009)

Hi,
I'm in the SF bay area, with our weather I'd suggest any of the Mediterranean tortoises, or a desert tortoise.
I also hatch several hatchlings per year. They don't require any more care than the adults do. Same diet, same environment, same care.


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## Maggie Cummings (Feb 23, 2009)

No tanks means that tortoises shouldn't be kept in aquariums. It's hard to keep a cool side and a hot side, and there's no air flow. No heat mats means that tortoises under 20 pounds shouldn't be kept on heat mats. Their heat should come from above like the sun.
My opinion on a tortoise for beginners is none. Hatchlings are very hard to keep. They die very easily, I recommend a new keeper get a yearling or older and get some experience at keeping chelonia, then get a hatchling. Tortoises are not like keeping dogs or cats. There is so much to learn and no room for error...you make a mistake and you end up with a dead baby, quickly.
But since I know you won't pay attention to that advice...think about getting a Russian, they stay small but have big personalities...and they're easy keepers


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## nrfitchett4 (Feb 23, 2009)

I have to disagree. I think in this day and age of info, as long as you do the research first, even a hatchling is manageable. Some hatchlings just don't make it, even experienced keepers can lose some. Just make sure you have the habitat set up in advance and read, read, read all the info you can beforehand.


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## Yvonne G (Feb 23, 2009)

I have to respectfully disagree. Hatchlings are NOT for beginners. Yes, there are quite a few noobies who have successfully raised hatchlings, but as a general rule, hatchlings are very fragile. I used to adopt out the hatchling desert tortoises that I got in every fall. Along with the tortoise I gave out detailed care instructions and my phone number. Many of those hatchlings died. Then I started giving the hatchlings to my sister to head start. Now I adopt them out as yearlings, and they are much easier for people to care for and to keep alive.

Yvonne


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## tortoisenerd (Feb 23, 2009)

My opinion: I got a hatchling for my first tort and I wish I didn't. But, I had a hard time finding anything older than a hatchling that wasn't wild caught. Also, he was a little older at about 4 months when I got him than I've seen (some sell theirs at 3-4 weeks, unfortunately). Thankfully he's healthy and happy at about 6 months. Sure took a lot of work though!


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## Candy (Feb 23, 2009)

Austin, I'm also kind of still a newbie to torts, but I've learned quite a bit here on this site. I've read a few books on tortoises (lets face it there's really not that many out there) but I've got to tell you there's nothing like information from people first hand that have raised them and are rescuing them. There are more than a few people on this site that really do know their stuff about tortoises. I always find it helpful to look at their reputations first and whether or not I see a lot of the same answers from other tort owners. Anyway we own a Cherryhead named Dale that my son got for Christmas. He is about 6 inches and the place that we bought him from told us he was about 1 year old. I then took him to the vet and she told me he was about 6 years old and then I found this site. After posting pictures and his inch size I found out he's probably only about 3-4 years old. Cherryheads also need humidity so I have to spray his tank every day a couple of times and move the moss around when I do that so it doesn't just get wet. They're probably right about tanks because I have a 40 gallon tank and it's really not big enough for Dale and that's what Terry had told me after seeing it on one of my posts. The tank doesn't cool down like it's suppose to like they say (that might be because it is only 40 gallon though). I do know that Terryo has one, but hers is 75 gallon for her Cherryhead (Pio) a lot different amount of space then mine. Anyway I don't care really how old Dale is because he is so cute and I do feel that we rescued him and that he's much better off now that he's with us. I just wanted to put in my two cents because they have helped me so much here in getting to know how to take care of Dale and a lot of the people are just passionate about their torts so don't take their criticism personally they really only want the best for you and the tortoise. Anyway good luck.  Candy I almost forgot after reading about the heating pad on another post I checked the one under Dales tank and it was too hot in one area so I unplugged it right away. I had heard were they could get too hot like that and that the tortoise could get burnt. I'm so glad that I read that just a few days ago. No more heating pad for Dale.


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## egyptiandan (Feb 23, 2009)

I'm going to be agreeing with Maggie and Yvonne on this.  Tortoises aren't beginners animals and hatchlings even more so. I have been around to long and seen more people not do well with hatchlings, than do well with them. Even in this day in age it hasn't changed much in getting hatchlings to thrive with a first time owner. 
You can search day and night on the net and you won't find much targeted at raising hatchling tortoises. Terry's website on Redfoots is one of the few. What you find is how to keep sub-adults or adults.
Like has been said a year old or older animal would be the best thing to start with as your first tortoise.
It will keep you in the hobby and give the tortoise you pick a great chance of living a very long life. 

Danny


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## KQ6AR (Feb 24, 2009)

Not to change the subject. I've hatched out & sold over 100 russian hatchlings. I stay in touch with many of the people that have them, & as far as I know none have had problems. 
My question is are some species of hatchlings more difficult that others?
I ask because I haven't had a problem, & have been raising Russians about 12 years.


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## egyptiandan (Feb 24, 2009)

There are definately more difficult hatchling to raise Dan, just like there are more difficult tortoises to keep. 
I didn't say it was impossible for a new tortoise keeper to do well, but it is extremely difficult without help. There just aren't many breeders out there that have actually raised up hatchlings or be willing to keep up with the ones they sell. Most people end up buying animals from dealers or breeders that bought adults and have never raised any of their hatchlings, so don't really know how.
Than you can get the people who can't, won't or don't follow the advice of the breeder that has raised hatchlings, so you have that too.
Like yourself Dan, Terry, Carl May, Douglas Beard and myself we have all raise our or someone elses hatchlings to adulthood. I'm sure there are others out there, but not many.
So in the big picture, I would always try to recommend a first time tortoise keeper to get a CB animal that was a year old or older.

Danny


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## Crazy1 (Feb 24, 2009)

I started this time with an adult pair. I had a unexpected hatchling outside and figured, No problem how hard could a hatchling be to raise they are just smaller than the parents. WRONG. There are so many things that can and unfortunately usually do go wrong. Broken hydrometers, thermometers, Too low humidity, too high temps, to low temps to high humidity, Soak too little, soak too much, do I use vitamins to soak them in, should I feed them vitamins or calcium and if so how often, how much and what type, I can't leave them outside unsupervised even in a large enclosure so now I have to have them inside at least at night. So now I have to set up a habitat, what substrate do I use? eco-Earth and play sand, Aspen, orchid bark, plain old dirt? Did I get all the spinach out of the spring mix, do I need to? Ah, Oh, yes its summer but now I have to spend time picking cleaning and cutting up greens from the garden and did I get the right amounts of the right greens. All this and so, so much more, for just one little hatchling.

For those of you debating on getting a tortoise I seriously advise against a hatchling. Get a little older a Year or more they are still small and have so much growing to do but are much more forgiving on the mistakes you are bound to make if you get a hatchling. Just my 2 Cents worth.


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## Austin (Feb 24, 2009)

the thing is.. the breeder friend of mine has gotten a hatchling red foot to give me. and now wants me to have him and had no other home for him, so i wanted to give him a home..

so.....

but i do want him to live and thrive.. 

just thought with support and advice and doin my hw/research, i could give him that home.. :/


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## Maggie Cummings (Feb 24, 2009)

So then it is up to you to decide if you can follow all the instructions and keep in contact with experienced keepers here, set up your baby perfectly or close to perfectly, feed him correctly etc. We have made you aware how difficult it can be to raise a hatchling now it is up to you to decide if you can or still want to do it.
Here's a short story...I have raise numerous babies, I am good at it.
My sister had a Manouria hatch. one baby out of 100 eggs. Because I am good with babies even tho I don't know anything about Manouria I took the hatchling. I thought it would be fun to have something different. Now she's about 4 months old, she doesn't eat good and is just harder than heck to keep her alive and thriving. Yesterday she woke up with closed and swollen eyes. And yet I am experienced at raising babies! I was stunned, and was seriously upset that I may lose a hatchling that is so rare. That is with my experience at raising hatchlings...it's simply not easy with or with out experience to keep hatchlings...
we may not agree that you should try to raise a hatchling...but if you do take him please know that we are here for you and will offer any needed advice and help.


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## Austin (Feb 24, 2009)

I really want to. Im just now ignoring my desire for a cute hatchling i can raise from baby to adult. and thinking of the well-being of the tort. hmm.. if i do, ill be on here everyday im sure .. but ill give it some more thought first.


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## Maggie Cummings (Feb 24, 2009)

Austin said:


> I really want to. Im just now ignoring my desire for a cute hatchling i can raise from baby to adult. and thinking of the well-being of the tort. hmm.. if i do, ill be on here everyday im sure .. but ill give it some more thought first.



Please understand that we may not agree with your decision...but we sure will help you as much as you need...you can count on that


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## Austin (Feb 24, 2009)

I do, and i dont take the 'no hatchling' advice to heart or personal, im not dumb, i can see its for the safety of the tort. which is why rather than ignore it, i will take it into consideration and make an educated decision with my heart/desire not involved.

-Austin


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## Yvonne G (Feb 24, 2009)

Austin: If you do decide to get the redfoot hatchling, follow the instructions on Terry Kilgore's page. He has raised healthy hatchlings and has the pictures to prove it.

Yvonne


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## KQ6AR (Feb 24, 2009)

I guess the only place I agree to disagree. Is that if the new owner can't or won't follow directions, They don't have any business buying an adult either. 

Many reptile & pet stores are notorious for giving the wrong advice also. Not Good.

Thanks Guys,
Dan


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## Candy (Feb 24, 2009)

That is true. We bought Dale (please don't get mad we didn't know better) at a pet store. He was in a tank with a sucata and two russians. We didn't know the difference. I don't know if they had any humidity for him or not in the tank. I do know that it was a private run pet store and not petsmart and the person that gave us the information about Dale seemed to really enjoy his reptiles. I don't know how much he really knew about Cherryheads though, but to give him the benefit of the doubt after we bought Dale and picked him up we took him for his checkup at what was suppose to be an exotic/reptile vet, but when I asked her how old Dale was she said about 6 years old (you guys think that he's more like 3 or 4 after my posting). She told me that you count the major lines. And another thing she did that made me question her as an exotic vet was that when I asked her what the scutes were called she didn't know. Don't you think that she should have known that? Plus she confirmed that he is a boy, but after posting pics of him Terry thought he looked more like a female (still trying to figure that one out). She did do the fecal test on him though and she told me that he had an upper respiratory infection because his eyes were watery, but you guys say that could also be because his tank doesn't have enough humidity in it. At the time I had none because I didn't know that he needed it. I think now I know 10 times more now from this site and you tortoise keepers so thanks for caring and being there for us. Candy


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## carrilac (Feb 24, 2009)

I think the fact that Austin is on this site asking the tough questions and even taking some critisim is really to his credit and tells me that he will be a great tortoise owner.
I just went through the same thing as Austin, trying to decide which tortoise was right and what age I should bring home. I had my heart set on a friendly adult Cherryhead and preferred a female, for size and other reasons. I looked for a month and could not find one. I was scared to death that I wouldnÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t be able to care for a hatchling properly. 
After researching proper redfoot hatchling care I took the plunge and brought home "Sophie" a cherry head hatchling. I am so glad I did; she is doing wonderfully! There is work involved, spraying down her enclosure every day, trying to get the humidity right and planning her meals, but IÃ¢â‚¬â„¢m really enjoying it. I think that I would be disappointed if I didnÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t have so much to do for her.
I think that anyone willing to put in the time and research will be a great owner. Hatchlings die when people purchase them on impulse (because they are cute) then donÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t follow through to get the information they need to take care of them.


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## Austin (Feb 25, 2009)

thank you Carrilac, i do care, and with pets i always jump in with both feet.. checkin the water rigorously first of course 

I want a hatchling but ill be there every day tending to him/her. taking care of it, on here asking and takin advice. i care. I dont want it purely because a hatchling is cute.. i want the feeling of raising it from that young age.. and growing with it.. being there for it. I wanna do things for it, like Carrilac said. Learn with it. not have one i can just ignore.. so to speak. I do take great care when lives are at stake.. no matter how small..

Again, no offense taken at all so far.. just litsening, learning and respecting. 

-Austin


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## maevamichelle (Feb 25, 2009)

Wow you guys scare me, lol
I bought my leopard from like the probably worst place, a reptile show. Which we all know is the very place that impulse purchases are born. With all the excitement and WAY more variety that your average or even above average local pet store.
I went there knowing I wanted a tortoise and not a turtle, and that I wanted something that I could raise from a baby or close to it and have it forever, and that was about it. Lucky for me out of all the 'hand-outs' I picked up at that show, someone handed me a bumper sticker for this site. While it's not on my car, but up in my son's room on his wall, I still found my way here.
So now I have my little darling whom I adore. I know everyone likes a baby to raise as their own, I'm fully guilty of it too, I had no idea that there were so many rescues out there and available. Breaks my heart, I even saw a adult or close to it Leopard and an Indian star listed yesterday on Petfinder.com one in Co, and the other in Ca. both of which are driveable distances. Anyhow back to topic, hatchlings are going to be sold to SOMEONE, at least we're here trying to gather enough information as we can to ensure our babies are able to survive and hopefully grow to the adults we want them to. 
It's been 2 months with my little Ookini and so far so good. he's housed right next to my pc which i'm at like 10 hrs a day, I check on him every time I move, probably like ever hour or so. He eats like a pig, and loves to sit in his water dish, but I also soak him daily just in case. I'm sure I'm not doing everything for him as perfect as most of you, but I read this site and others daily trying to keep updated w/ all the latest info.

Thnx for all the great info, and laughs from everyone's posts.
I really enjoy checking this forum each day!
-Michelle ^^


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## tortoisenerd (Feb 25, 2009)

I understand the need to want to raise it from a hatchling...my tort will probably be our only tort (not planning or allowing myself to get more). I wanted it to be a very special experience. Enjoying it so far! Lots of worry but lots of fun times as well.


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## nrfitchett4 (Feb 25, 2009)

I agree that your either going to take good care of a tort, or not. Whether hatchling or adult. The fact that austin is on here learning BEFORE purchase says alot. I have researched all my reptile pets for months before purchase.
I agree that hatchlings are less forgiving, but if you have the proper knowledge I think you will do o.k.
p.s. funny thing, I couldn't find a tort rescue or any torts on craigslist here in san antonio when I started looking.


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## Crazy1 (Feb 26, 2009)

First of all donÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t think that people selling hatchlings at those shows donÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t know what they are doing. They know that Hatchlings are cute and that the impulsive buyer will buy the cute little hatchling over the larger (although I think cute) adult. Everyone loves a baby and sellers know this. They also have put less money and care into the hatchling which brings down the price, so they are more affordable.

I would no more suggest a person, who is a couch potato to get large high energy dog to live in a small apartment than I would a person living in a small apartment to get a Sully.

The fact is hatchlings are more difficult than adults, if only the fact that if you get things wrong in the first year hatchlings are not forgiving as adults are and it will show. Either they will not thrive, survive or will have permanent structural damage.

Any one who is thinking of obtaining a tortoise, especially a hatchling needs to be aware. Most people who get hatchlings are not. that is IMHO the biggest problem. Once informed the decision is theirs. But at least they will be going into it with their eyes open.

Austin is doing his homework, his research and has demonstrated, at least I think so, responsibility and care for the tortoise he will obtain. Now it is up to him whether he decides on a hatchling, sub adult or an adult, he is making an informed decision. Austin I commend you for this. I know I spent a little over a year doing research including finding a vet in my area prior to getting my torts. And actually didnÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t even end up with the tort I had initially chosen. There are many out there that need homes, adults, unwanted, rescues and hatchlings. The choice is yours and yours alone to make. But Please know that regardless of the decision you make we are here for you and the tort you select, each and every step. And donÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t forget our community LOVES pictures.

This ended up much longer than anticipated and for that I apologize.


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## tortoisenerd (Feb 26, 2009)

Great post Robyn! 

When I called the vet to make an appointment before I even got my tort they thought it was cool I cared so much. hehe I have been really lucky with my little guy so far.


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## galvinkaos (Feb 26, 2009)

I agree 100% with Robyn. 

Austin, no matter what you decide you have already taken big steps in the right direction for your new tort.

Dawna


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## Redfootedboxturtles (Feb 27, 2009)

Best first tortoises would have a to be a captive born russian tortoises. If you can find one that is over a year old even better.


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## Meg90 (Feb 27, 2009)

Gonna add my two cents worth here, I am an advocate of the adult first, baby later. I did ALL the research I could before I got my adult Greek, and I still made mistakes. One: not soaking enough, two: feeding something that I thought, was ok, but didn't double check.

If I had fed a hatchling avocado, I probably would have killed it. Nigel, could bounce back with proper care, but a baby wouldn't.

And the kinds of mistakes you make with a new tort, are not the ones that a baby could handle....

Even now, with my hatchling coming in April, I am glad I had to wait. I am glad that she is with an experienced person for her first six months. I would rather have an older baby, then a teeny little fragile thing. 

Please try for an older baby at least 6 mos to a year old. They are just as small, and just as sweet as their 6 week old counter parts, and are much more likely to make it into adulthood...


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