# Advice on ill Horsefield :(



## LMBD88 (Feb 15, 2017)

Hi all, 

Long time lurker so first post here. 

We adopted a horsefield (Tello) around 4 years ago. I think he was about 3 at the time he came to us. 

He's a very cheeky fellow, lots of personality. He lives on a huge table inside (we live in a flat unfortunately), with a 50/50 play sand topsoil substrate, UVA/UVB lamp giving temp of around 32degrees, large shallow water dish and is fed on a mixture of mixed salad (kale,red lettuces, rocket - no iceberg etc), herbs and dandelions (I live in london so other wild bits that aren't polluted are hard to come by). 
His shell looks good, no pyramiding and he's always been lively. 

Last week, I noticed he was very quiet even for this time of year and on Saturday I took him to the vets as he was unresponsive to me more or less and even after a soak was listless and kept eyes more or less closed. 
Our vet treats tortoises fairly regularly, she noted he was a little dehydrated, checked inside his mouth, nose and eyes (all clear and clean) and weighed him noting he was a little under weight. 
She advised twice daily extended soaks with reptoboost and antibiotic injections once every 72 hours - a course of 8 incase he had an infection. 

4 days later and his condition has improved slightly - he will not wake on his own, but when I wake him and bathe him he is coaxed to open his eyes and will eat when hand fed. He does not like being under his heat lamp so moves slightly to the side of it, even though it's not too warm and I have been instructed to keep his temp slightly higher to help with abx. 
He did not poo/wee for a while, which left me tearing hair out but this morning he did a tiny little poop. I bathed him in carrot purree this morning too. I have also been gently rinsing eyes with saline. I notice he is rubbing them slightly and this morning he blew bubbles from his nose (first time) but I dont know if that was just a result of the bath as it was water and nostrils and mouth are clear of any mucus that I can see. 

I am besides myself with worry that somehow I have let him down in my care of him and that is why he is sick. I have ordered coco coir and intend to switch his substrate tonight if advised this will not stress him - I am concerned if bacteria is lurking in his table. 
I guess my quesiton is - when should I expect to see improvement , am I being impatient? I don't want to stress him with another vet visit (30 mins in car) unnecessarily but also not sure if he should go back as he hasn't improved massively. 

what other info can I give.. back and front legs have got strength returned from Saturday, I've ordered a ceramic heat emitter for night time (currently having to leave lamp on to keep temps up but have been popping him inside a hide at night to shield him) , I have been damping his substrate down daily to keep humidity up slightly. 

I've never had a tort before (only rabbits, which are weirdly similar), but hope I am doing all I can.. can anyone advise on what may be the issue? Should I push for an xray at this stage? 

Best, 
L


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## LMBD88 (Feb 15, 2017)

Here he is yesterday


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## crimson_lotus (Feb 15, 2017)

Let's get this question out of the way - what type of uvb bulb are you using? Have you changed it recently?

The bone looks exposed on the front of his shell, is that new or did he always have that, and how close is the heat lamp to the substrate in the enclosure


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## LMBD88 (Feb 15, 2017)

Using an exo-terra solar glo, have used these since we got him years ago. This bulb has probably not been changed for well over a year, seems to have lasted a long time. I bought a new one yesterday - do you think I should switch it?


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## crimson_lotus (Feb 15, 2017)

LMBD88 said:


> Using an exo-terra solar glo, have used these since we got him years ago. This bulb has probably not been changed for well over a year, seems to have lasted a long time. I bought a new one yesterday - do you think I should switch it?



Nope that light is fine, just wanted to make sure it wasn't a coil


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## LMBD88 (Feb 15, 2017)

My vet said that everything is in 'tortoise time' so recovery from illness can take a while, but I was hoping to see some positive steps after his 2nd injection but de nada so far. Just so worried I can't even work at the moment!


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## JoesMum (Feb 15, 2017)

Hello and welcome to TFO from Kent... depending on which bit of London you're in, not so very far from you. 

My tort Joe had a respiratory infection after decades of no problems and this lethargy and subsequent runny nose are classic symptoms. Recovery is long and slow unfortunately - it seemed to take forever. 

Your vet seems to have said all the right things so far. It would be worth putting in a call to notify your vet that the runny nose has developed. 

I too use reptoboost in soak water on my vets recommendation. Just in case your not sure (apologies if you know this already):
-Soak twice a day for at least 30 minutes each time
- Use a high sided, flat bottomed bowl that your tort can't see over or through. A washing up bowl is ideal. 
- The water needs to be warm, but not hot; think baby bath. Change the water if it goes cool
- The water needs to be deep enough to come just up over the line between the shell and plastron. 

Your tort needs 35C directly under the basking lamp in order to raise its body temperature and digest food, you have it a bit cool, and temperatures generally should not to dip below 25C day or night while your tort is sick. 

The best way to measure temperature under the basking lamp is with a temperature gun type thermometer like this

If you post pictures of your enclosure and lighting it will help us to spot anything else that might help your tort.


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## LMBD88 (Feb 15, 2017)

Thank you for your reply! I will lower his lamp slightly to raise the temperature. Although he keeps weaselling out from under it (the only time he voluntarily moves at the moment!) so I was worried he was too hot. 

That's what I've been using for soaks so pleased to hear I'm doing this correctly. I will take some photos tonight and upload, do you think changing his substrate is wise? I was planning on doing this this evening. I have also restricted his area inside his table (it's quite big) so that he remains in the warmest part. Lastly, his abx is Fortum and I have been injecting this into muscle of front leg (alternatively) as direct by vet. Worst job ever , but much easier than injecting rabbits I can tell you. 
Thank you for your assistance.


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## LMBD88 (Feb 15, 2017)

p.s. thank you, just bought one of those thermometers to arrive this evening (praise the lord for amazon prime)


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## JoesMum (Feb 15, 2017)

I think it unlikely that bacteria in the substrate has caused the problem. 

The URI usually kicks in after a tort has been run down for a while due to stress, for example a bullied tortoise kept with others (or taken on play dates) or incorrect husbandry parameters. 

With Joe his started as a reaction to losing a lot of weight rapidly due to a hormonal problem. It took over a year to sort both out. 

In your case, it could be that temperatures haven't been quite right ... and/or humidity and/or dehydration ... and/or being allowed to roam the house away from heat lamps and UVB and/or ...

Let's have a look at things later on in photos and get your enclosure right to remove the guesswork. We'll sort it out for you.


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## LMBD88 (Feb 15, 2017)

Thank you so much for your support. I didn't want to leave him at the vets as an inpatient as i felt this would have been more stressful. I just don't want to lose him. When he hadn't poo'd I was convinced he was impacted. Just want my lively little man back.


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## JoesMum (Feb 15, 2017)

LMBD88 said:


> Thank you so much for your support. I didn't want to leave him at the vets as an inpatient as i felt this would have been more stressful. I just don't want to lose him. When he hadn't poo'd I was convinced he was impacted. Just want my lively little man back.


I actually did leave Joe there for a week and then did the rest of the treatment at home. I honestly felt like I was the most useless, irresponsible, incompetent pet owner in the world at the time. I was so worried. My vet was fab at reassuring me through all the treatment Joe required.


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## LMBD88 (Feb 15, 2017)

Yep, that's kind of where I am emotionally at the moment. 
I am just pleased that he is eating a little each day currently.


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## Yvonne G (Feb 15, 2017)

Could he be trying to hibernate?


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## Kasia (Feb 15, 2017)

Did Vet took a blood sample/ X-ray him or examined his stool? If Vet did not test your tort ask him to. That could help to rule out louds of stuff. Good luck for your little guy


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## LMBD88 (Feb 15, 2017)

I don't know - not seen/been through hibernation with a tort. It's not super cold though in my flat so not sure why he would be trying to randomly? No tort pun intended but can you shed some light on what happens to them when they try to hibernate and what can be done to stop them? 

No bloods or x-rays done yet. It's been 4 days, do you think I should push for these tests if no improvement by this Sat (1 week since first visit)?


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## JoesMum (Feb 15, 2017)

The days are getting noticeably longer here and I think it unlikely that this tortoise is displaying a hibernation urge. Such an urge would have been a possibility a couple of months ago, but not now. Also this tort has started blowing bubbles - another URI sign. 

I cannot see a point in returning to the vet before the end of the prescribed course of antibiotics unless things deteriorate. The same applies to humans prescribed antibiotics by their doctor. Obviously, a phone call to the vet costs nothing if you want their opinion on whether a return is necessary. 

If you are the right side of London and feel you need a second opinion at any time, I can recommend my vet Mark Rowland at Trinity Vet Centre in Maidstone which is easy to get to from the M20.


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## LMBD88 (Feb 15, 2017)

Ah I actually took my poorly rabbit to Trinity a while ago and remember them being excellent. I phoned them yesterday and asked their advice and they said they suggested we stick with our vet for now and they can offer advice to them if needed (thought that was quite nice). I've called my vet yesterday and again today (expect they're sick of me) and they advised to complete abx and that change takes time, but to bring him in if he gets worse or stops eating. 
I just want to see some positive signs


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## Kasia (Feb 15, 2017)

LMBD88 said:


> Ah I actually took my poorly rabbit to Trinity a while ago and remember them being excellent. I phoned them yesterday and asked their advice and they said they suggested we stick with our vet for now and they can offer advice to them if needed (thought that was quite nice). I've called my vet yesterday and again today (expect they're sick of me) and they advised to complete abx and that change takes time, but to bring him in if he gets worse or stops eating.
> I just want to see some positive signs


Except this one time bubble blowing how is he breathing? Is it loud/more laboured then usually? You wrote that Vet did not find anything wrong during examination of his nostrils/mouth. Everything was clear but tort was letargic. For me it would be logical to run some simple tests to see what's going on with the animal.


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## LMBD88 (Feb 15, 2017)

Tello has had 3 baths today. He seemed, I think, a little more lively but no more poos. He's eaten a fair bit too but still hand feeding only. Photo of enclosure attached. I got a new ceramic heat emitter - they only had 150W so it's a little too hot directly underneath (just checked with my new laser thermometer and its saying 38C) so I've moved him to just next to it where it's about 35 and will try and lift the lamp up to reduce temp. No more bubbles and nose looks clear. Still debating taking him back for xray.


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## Gillian M (Feb 15, 2017)

Hello @LMBD88 and a very warm welcome to the forum.


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## LMBD88 (Feb 15, 2017)

crimson_lotus said:


> Let's get this question out of the way - what type of uvb bulb are you using? Have you changed it recently?
> 
> The bone looks exposed on the front of his shell, is that new or did he always have that, and how close is the heat lamp to the substrate in the enclosure


Just seen this note. He's always had that since we got him  I didn't realise it was bone. Anything I can do to help with it?


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## JoesMum (Feb 15, 2017)

LMBD88 said:


> Tello has had 3 baths today. He seemed, I think, a little more lively but no more poos. He's eaten a fair bit too but still hand feeding only. Photo of enclosure attached. I got a new ceramic heat emitter - they only had 150W so it's a little too hot directly underneath (just checked with my new laser thermometer and its saying 38C) so I've moved him to just next to it where it's about 35 and will try and lift the lamp up to reduce temp. No more bubbles and nose looks clear. Still debating taking him back for xray.



A Ceramic Heat Emitter should be used with a thermostat so it only cuts in as needed and doesn't burn. Make sure you get one that can handle at least 150W. 


It's very hard to raise humidity or ambient temperature in an open table like that. The CHE will just heat the room. 

Some sort of cover is needed to achieve that - some people use a mini greenhouse type thing like this over the enclosure (take care with the lights) - I have no idea if you could find one that would fit. 

I had an electric radiator from Argos in the room next to Joe to keep the room temperature up when my central heating was off for the night. 

You have a Mercury Vapour Bulb for basking/UVB I believe. How frequently do you change the bulb? The UVB output of these bulbs drops dramatically after 6-9 months, long before the bulb blows, so they need to be replaced frequently.


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## JoesMum (Feb 15, 2017)

LMBD88 said:


> Just seen this note. He's always had that since we got him  I didn't realise it was bone. Anything I can do to help with it?


Old injury. Unlikely to be a problem in that case. Don't worry


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## LMBD88 (Feb 15, 2017)

JoesMum said:


> A Ceramic Heat Emitter should be used with a thermostat so it only cuts in as needed and doesn't burn. Make sure you get one that can handle at least 150W.
> 
> 
> It's very hard to raise humidity or ambient temperature in an open table like that. The CHE will just heat the room.
> ...



Thank you! Ok so, tomorrow: buy thermostat (can you point me in direction of a good one on amazon? ) , change UVA/UVB bulb. With regards to the general room temp - rather luckily (for Tello) our flat has pretty poor ventilation so holds heat incredibly well and i have to use dehumidifier in other rooms. plus I've had heating on constantly while hes been ill. Whilst this probably isn't up to tortoise levels, it must be of some help and I damp his substrate down daily which I hope helps too. What are your thoughts on xray at this point?


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## JoesMum (Feb 15, 2017)

I am not sure what an x ray would prove? There may be evidence of intestinal blockage I suppose. 

Checking a fresh sample of faeces for parasites is standard. Most torts will reliably produce one on the car journey to the vet. 

Bloods can be checked, but given the going over your vet did she will have her reasons for not doing them immediately. Again, a phone call to inquire might settle your mind. 

If the nose bubbles were only after the soak, they're less likely to be indicative of URI. The bubbles would be continuing with a URI. Nose bubbles after a soak are pretty common. 

Your substrate should be evenly damp throughout - not just damp on the surface. Take the decor out, tip some water in with a jug and mix it thoroughly with your hands. Repeat until all the substrate is damp. Spraying helps to slow the rate at which it dries out and doesn't do much for humidity.


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## Kasia (Feb 15, 2017)

LMBD88 said:


> Thank you! Ok so, tomorrow: buy thermostat (can you point me in direction of a good one on amazon? ) , change UVA/UVB bulb. With regards to the general room temp - rather luckily (for Tello) our flat has pretty poor ventilation so holds heat incredibly well and i have to use dehumidifier in other rooms. plus I've had heating on constantly while hes been ill. Whilst this probably isn't up to tortoise levels, it must be of some help and I damp his substrate down daily which I hope helps too. What are your thoughts on xray at this point?


How long he is not pooping and eating? Rule is no food no poop If his eating, peeing and is active I would give a week or so from this point Does he farts in the bath a lot or strains? What about his pee? How does it look like? White, gooie and lot of water or a bit of fluid and a lot of brittle white stuff or bit yellowish even? After a week of daily baths he should be peeing daily a lot. Otherwise could indicate kidney/liver problem which can cause anorexia and lethargy and for which soaks could help.


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## LMBD88 (Feb 16, 2017)

Hi all (my sick tortoise support group)
Bathed the wee man this morning, after 10 mins he was a little more lively, actively trying to get out which is more like his usual self. He also pee'd!.. all over my hand as I was taking him out. Pee was clearish with urates which were grittier than they should be and not as chalky as usual. However, I was just pleased he's gone. Still no poo. Damped down his substrate (mixed it all in, its nice and damp) and dried him off and popped him back, he had some lettuce and small bit of cucumber, he actually made an attempt to eat the lettuce himself without hand feeding and now he is sleeping again under his lamp.

I've bought a thermostat for CHE and he's due his 3rd abx injection tomorrow. Called my vets and they said to complete abx before bringing him back in. I would just feel better if he poo'd. I've also noticed he is rubbing his eyes after he is coaxed to open them, they look clear to me and not puffy but just wondered about that.

That's his update for this morning.

Oh also, no farting! I wondered if his lack of poo was because he was off his food a few days before vets visit so its just working way through since he started eating again, that's my hope.


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## Kasia (Feb 16, 2017)

LMBD88 said:


> Hi all (my sick tortoise support group)
> Bathed the wee man this morning, after 10 mins he was a little more lively, actively trying to get out which is more like his usual self. He also pee'd!.. all over my hand as I was taking him out. Pee was clearish with urates which were grittier than they should be and not as chalky as usual. However, I was just pleased he's gone. Still no poo. Damped down his substrate (mixed it all in, its nice and damp) and dried him off and popped him back, he had some lettuce and small bit of cucumber, he actually made an attempt to eat the lettuce himself without hand feeding and now he is sleeping again under his lamp.
> 
> I've bought a thermostat for CHE and he's due his 3rd abx injection tomorrow. Called my vets and they said to complete abx before bringing him back in. I would just feel better if he poo'd. I've also noticed he is rubbing his eyes after he is coaxed to open them, they look clear to me and not puffy but just wondered about that.
> ...


It's good that he is doing much better. Give him at least one week of normal eating until you start worrying about not pooping. If his not straining and eating OK it will come  If you never had it examined for parasites take it to the Vet and ask him to do the test. Best wishes for you both.


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## LMBD88 (Feb 16, 2017)

Kasia said:


> It's good that he is doing much better. Give him at least one week of normal eating until you start worrying about not pooping. If his not straining and eating OK it will come  If you never had it examined for parasites take it to the Vet and ask him to do the test. Best wishes for you both.



Ok thank you, i will see how he goes poop wise. He's eaten a bit more today with my help, had another soak and he's just sleeping a lot. He seems to dislike being in the higher temps (around 34 degrees) but vet told me to keep him extra warm due to abx so I do feel a bit mean. Gosh, wish they could just tell us what was wrong with them, not knowing exactly makes it so hard.


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## LMBD88 (Feb 17, 2017)

Tello seems a little quieter today. I didn't do a great job with his jab this morning but did my best. He seems to be struggling to open his eyes and I noted in one there is something in the corner. Can't work out if it's the inner eye lid which is swollen or some kind of discharge. Tried washing with salt water but tricky as he closes eyes instantly. Still no poo. I'm still worried


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## JoesMum (Feb 17, 2017)

The poop is of not so much concern as your tort is not eating properly. What comes out has to have been eaten in the first place. Also your tort is probably not eating the more fibrous foods that help with pooping at the moment. 

The eye is of concern, I agree. 

Torts are very slow to recover from this type of thing. My expectation is on weeks and not days. It is a very long slow process. 

You are doing everything you can and we're here for electronic hugs and support.


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## LMBD88 (Feb 17, 2017)

Thank you, had a little cry this morning . Just want him to get better. I gave him a long soak this morning. He's just sat in his enclosure where I left him. Can't tempt him with any food. This morning was third injection of five, although vet gave us eight syringes in case the course needed extending but I plan to take him back for a check up after his fifth if there's no improvement (next Saturday).


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## JoesMum (Feb 17, 2017)

LMBD88 said:


> I plan to take him back for a check up after his fifth if there's no improvement (next Saturday).


I think I'd do that too. He may need to be an inpatient this time.


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## LMBD88 (Feb 17, 2017)

Considering taking him in tomorrow but will see how he goes the rest of today


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## LMBD88 (Feb 17, 2017)

Booked an appointment and have the option to leave him. I know back and forth wil stress him but I'd sooner do that than possibly have him get worse.


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## LMBD88 (Feb 17, 2017)

We are very sleepy. Had a long bath and eventually opened eyes a bit, it looked like it took a lot of effort but they weren't cloudy.
Not eaten today apart from small piece of lettuce that got popped into his mouth which he nommed.
Just been sleeping like this under CHE (got a thermostat and set to 35 degrees)
Called vets - they said doesn't need an emergency visit out as sounds like infection is just coming out but going tomorrow at 3pm for check up and maybe to stay in.


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## Kasia (Feb 17, 2017)

LMBD88 said:


> We are very sleepy. Had a long bath and eventually opened eyes a bit, it looked like it took a lot of effort but they weren't cloudy.
> Not eaten today apart from small piece of lettuce that got popped into his mouth which he nommed.
> Just been sleeping like this under CHE (got a thermostat and set to 35 degrees)
> Called vets - they said doesn't need an emergency visit out as sounds like infection is just coming out but going tomorrow at 3pm for check up and maybe to stay in.


If you feel he is not doing better go to the Vets - better safe then sorry. Still consider that those could be side effects of antibiotic injections and he can get a bit worse to eventually get better. Don't panic  Torts recover SLOW. You are taking good care of him.


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## LMBD88 (Feb 17, 2017)

Kasia said:


> If you feel he is not doing better go to the Vets - better safe then sorry. Still consider that those could be side effect of antibiotic injections and he can get a bit worse to eventually get better. Don't panic  You are taking good care of him.


Thanks Kasia. I hope I am. Tello is our first tortoise that my husband randomly bought home some years ago when he was in the army. Rabbits and horses I know heaps about but tortoises I am still very much learning and it's the first time he's ever been anything but a little greedy hooligan. 
The vet said originally to come back after abx course was complete but since he's got a bit worse I just don't want to chance it as I'm so inexperienced with signs/symptoms.


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## LMBD88 (Feb 18, 2017)

Not doing good today. Vets at 3. I'm so worried, dont want to lose him


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## JoesMum (Feb 18, 2017)

LMBD88 said:


> Not doing good today. Vets at 3. I'm so worried, dont want to lose him


Fingers firmly crossed. You are doing all the right things.


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## Kasia (Feb 18, 2017)

LMBD88 said:


> Not doing good today. Vets at 3. I'm so worried, dont want to lose him


So not good, hugs for poor little guy


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## LMBD88 (Feb 18, 2017)

Hi guys, just got back from the vets. 
They've kept Tello in. Vet said his eyes definitely have some discharge but his muscle tone is good and he has put on some weight from last week. Next steps are bloods and x-ray and that at this stage it could be anything. He then scared me talking about kidney failure and such. 
Anyway, on way home vet called (about 30 mins later) and said x-ray had already been done and it was good news - no stones, blockages or fluid on lungs. 
He said he's giving Tello some direct fluids and he will likely be tube fed with some liquid food later to keep his strength up. 
Bloods should come back early next week. I'm trying to be neither hopeful nor distraught but obviously I cried at vets leaving him, embarrassing. 

Guess all I can do now is wait and hope it's an infection and nothing worse and that my little man can fight it. 
Let me know your thoughts!


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## JoesMum (Feb 18, 2017)

Don't be embarrassed about crying. I remember tears at the vet too. You have reminded me that I had to inject fluids into Joe for a couple of weeks. He got a liver infection on top of everything else! The vet nurses helped with my tears as they taught me how to do the injections. 

It actually sounds fairly encouraging so far. It will be interesting to see what the bloods show up. 

As Kasia and I have both said, recovery for torts is s-l-o-w. Hopefully there will be better news next week. 

I knew Joe was getting better when he had clearly established a reputation as 'a bit of a character' with the vet staff. The vet also told me about having to abandon Joe on the floor and let him mate with his shoe during a rabbit emergency


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## LMBD88 (Feb 18, 2017)

Hahah! Joe sounds like a little loon 
Tello has had an eventful life, a few years ago he was stolen from our flat. I thought I'd never see him again, but I went round all local vets and gave them posters and put them up in the neighbourhood. Policeman during the crime report even took a photo of him away. 
About 2 weeks later, after many tears, I had a phone call from the RSPCA saying someone had handed him in and they'd come across my poster and could I sent a photo to identify him and we were reunited! 

Apparently someone had left him in the road a few roads along and a lady had found him and tried to look after him but gave up when he wouldn't come out of his shell so had handed him in. 

If it is an RI that he has, I read that they can't be fully cured so to speak - is the long term outlook a little bleak with these things? He still has no nasal discharge although I did notice earlier I saw him mouth breathing once or twice.


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## JoesMum (Feb 18, 2017)

Joe's RI was 7 years ago. Once we got him through the hormonal problems that started this off (excessively high testosterone levels that required a hormone implant) , he was fine. 

I have no reason to believe it has shortened his life potential lifespan and have every expectation that he'll outlive me. 

I guess that some torts that get RIs are kept in less than perfect conditions and their owners may not learn from the mistakes they make. 

Joe had a clear medical problem that led him to be run down. He lost one third of his bodyweight as his hormone fuelled sex obsession led him to stop eating and drinking. 

You are clearly driven to find out as much as possible and get Tello set up as well as possible on his return. I have every confidence that he will be going home to optimum care and it should not affect his lifespan


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## Kasia (Feb 18, 2017)

Tears mean you care, nothing to be ashamed of. I cried a lot on mine. He has gout. Last summer I thought he will not pull trough and I will have to euthanize him. Took him some time but now he has still at least couple of years ahead. Love him to bits.
Tello is in good hands, glad that he will have a full check up. I do understand that sometimes it's not necessary but I am for testing Torts in lots of cases will show very little symptoms until their very, very sick.
Stay positive and keep us updated. I hope you will have him back and healthy in no time


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## LMBD88 (Feb 18, 2017)

Thanks both, really appreciate it. Sat here thinking 'will they have right set up ' etc etc but I know this vets is one of a few in London that , although not as expert as Trinity, does specialise in exotics and they have 2 torts in at the moment who are recovering from post hibernation ills so I'm sure they will look after him ok. Just hope he isn't too stressed and crossing fingers and toes bloods don't show anything horrible. My rabbits got extra hugs tonight and were most confused and put out by it  I hope for an update Monday/Tuesday time as vets are closed tomorrow so just the nurse going in in morning and evening to do treatments etc.


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## LMBD88 (Feb 19, 2017)

Thinking about my little guy and hoping he's ok  keep walking past his table and hoping he comes home to it


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## LMBD88 (Feb 20, 2017)

Vet has called today and it's not good. He has still not improved. He is being bathed, fed by tube and given fluids. We are waiting on bloods to rule out kidney failure.  
He's had his 4th antibiotic injection today, vet said he would've expected to see some signs of progress by now so we are not hopeful. 
He has given to end of week and blood test results to see what next steps might be, could include a referral to Trinity. I'm so gutted.


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## JoesMum (Feb 20, 2017)

Oh dear. I am so sorry to hear this


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## LMBD88 (Feb 20, 2017)

I just don't know what to think.


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## Kasia (Feb 20, 2017)

LMBD88 said:


> Vet has called today and it's not good. He has still not improved. He is being bathed, fed by tube and given fluids. We are waiting on bloods to rule out kidney failure.
> He's had his 4th antibiotic injection today, vet said he would've expected to see some signs of progress by now so we are not hopeful.
> He has given to end of week and blood test results to see what next steps might be, could include a referral to Trinity. I'm so gutted.


Ask them if they could test for parasites while waiting for the blood work - if he did not poop they could try to take a smear from cloaca.
http://www.tortoisetrust.org/articles/parasites.html
Stay positive, he needs your good thoughts


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## LMBD88 (Feb 20, 2017)

I've just spoken to vets again, he has not opened his eyes all day. They are calling Trinity for further advice and we may have to take him there, I am just trying to work out how as I don't have a car at the moment. They are suspecting organ failure and said he is very weak. I'm devastated, he's such a baby and I don't know what I've done wrong.


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## Kasia (Feb 20, 2017)

LMBD88 said:


> I've just spoken to vets again, he has not opened his eyes all day. They are calling Trinity for further advice and we may have to take him there, I am just trying to work out how as I don't have a car at the moment. They are suspecting organ failure and said he is very weak. I'm devastated, he's such a baby and I don't know what I've done wrong.


His not dead jet! If they don't have test results they just guessing. Get an uber  and a laundry basket with a warm blanket for transport. I do it all the time


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## Kasia (Feb 20, 2017)

And your taking good care of him


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## JoesMum (Feb 20, 2017)

LMBD88 said:


> I've just spoken to vets again, he has not opened his eyes all day. They are calling Trinity for further advice and we may have to take him there, I am just trying to work out how as I don't have a car at the moment. They are suspecting organ failure and said he is very weak. I'm devastated, he's such a baby and I don't know what I've done wrong.


PM sent. I have a car and I know where Trinity is.


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## Kasia (Feb 20, 2017)

@LMBD88 how is he doing?


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## LMBD88 (Feb 20, 2017)

Hi Kasia, you have more hope than I do. Vet nurse sounded very gloomy about his chances. I didn't sleep much last night. 
I will call vet after 11am this morning and see how he is. I just don't understand why I felt he got worse after 3rd abx injection and this is why I'm worried about something more sinister than an RI. He's been under treatment for 10 days now in total.


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## Kasia (Feb 20, 2017)

Hi, I think that he should improve by now if it was RI too but his in good hands and has a caring mom... those two facts increase his chances by a 100000000%  When mine Rufin was ill he was lethargic for about 2 weeks and still I was going daily for sq fluids to Vets, give him meds, soaked him and hoped he will slip trough. Hugs for you both


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## LMBD88 (Feb 20, 2017)

Aw thanks Kasia. I guess we will have to see what blood test shows. What was wrong with your Rufin?


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## Kasia (Feb 21, 2017)

Got so general kidney/liver problems. He was not eating, peeing, moving... nothing. I thought he would die. Vet probably thought the same. But he didn't. They are very tough creatures.


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## LMBD88 (Feb 21, 2017)

Kasia said:


> Got so general kidney/liver problems. He was not eating, peeing, moving... nothing. I thought he would die. Vet probably thought the same. But he didn't. They are very tough creatures.


That is encouraging to know, that there is some hope for Tello even if there is some kind of organ issue.


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## Kasia (Feb 21, 2017)

LMBD88 said:


> That is encouraging to know, that there is some hope for Tello even if there is some kind of organ issue.


That is way I say make them check all they can and find out what's wrong with Tello. Hugs for both of you keep us updated


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## JoesMum (Feb 21, 2017)

@LMBD88
I hardly dare ask, but do you have an update?


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## JoesMum (Feb 21, 2017)

@Kasia I have heard from OP today off the forum. 

Tello is still very quiet but no worse and, at present, is staying with the vet he's at with advice from Trinity by phone. 

Blood results are due tomorrow.


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## Kasia (Feb 21, 2017)

JoesMum said:


> @Kasia I have heard from OP today off the forum.
> 
> Tello is still very quiet but no worse and, at present, is staying with the vet he's at with advice from Trinity by phone.
> 
> Blood results are due tomorrow.


Thank you a lot  been waiting for news. Good that he got trough the night, hopefully they will figure out what's going on.


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## LMBD88 (Feb 22, 2017)

Hi guys, 
Thanks for updating here yesterday @JoesMum.
We are still waiting on bloods. Not spoken to vet yet today, yesterday evening he said Tello is much the same although seems perkier in his baths but when placed back in his nursing area he does not move and is very unresponsive still. They have ordered some special food as advised by Trinity and the vet said it is down to Tello now as we need to see at least small improvement by the end of the week. Hoping the bloods shed light on what's going on with him.


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## LMBD88 (Feb 22, 2017)

Just an update - vet called, he said not much change. no better, no worse. 
Said sometimes his eyes are open but he's still not really moving, they tried to tempt him with delicious treats. He opened his mouth when he spied a strawberry but then didn't make the effort to actually eat some. 
Bloods still aren't in. 
Vet said if bloods don't show anything we should take him to Trinity for further testing as they can't at this point find what's wrong with him yet. 
Hmmm wishing we had him insured at this point! (not that it matters in terms of the action we will take but just a slight added worry!!)


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## Kasia (Feb 22, 2017)

Hi His one little fighter!! 
Is he still on antibiotics? Or did they stopped giving them?


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## LMBD88 (Feb 22, 2017)

Hi @JoesMum @Kasia 

I am so so sad to say that my little baby has died. The vet called and said he became totally unresponsive and his heart was very slow and irregular. I gave permission to stop his suffering. 
I just wanna crawl into a whole in die but I have a conference call with a client so I cannot. 

Can't bear to see his empty table when I get home, what am I going to do


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## JoesMum (Feb 22, 2017)

Oh no! I am desperately sorry to hear this  This was not the outcome any of us hoped for. Big electronic hugs from here


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## Kasia (Feb 22, 2017)

LMBD88 said:


> Hi @JoesMum @Kasia
> 
> I am so so sad to say that my little baby has died. The vet called and said he became totally unresponsive and his heart was very slow and irregular. I gave permission to stop his suffering.
> I just wanna crawl into a whole in die but I have a conference call with a client so I cannot.
> ...



It was very brave of you to let him go when he needed. I truly thought that he will pull trough. Very sorry for your loss, loads of hugs.


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## LMBD88 (Feb 23, 2017)

Blood test results came late last night, they showed Tello was anaemic, he also had very low white blood cell count. Vet said that the results essentially showed that he could never have survived. They don't know what caused it but suspect he was very ill for a long time, although he did not show it until a few weeks ago. Not sure what to make of it all really but it is what it is and we did all we could. 

I've cleared his things away today, his table is stood empty  very sad. 
Thank you both so much for all your support.


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## JoesMum (Feb 23, 2017)

LMBD88 said:


> Blood test results came late last night, they showed Tello was anaemic, he also had very low white blood cell count. Vet said that the results essentially showed that he could never have survived. They don't know what caused it but suspect he was very ill for a long time, although he did not show it until a few weeks ago. Not sure what to make of it all really but it is what it is and we did all we could.
> 
> I've cleared his things away today, his table is stood empty  very sad.
> Thank you both so much for all your support.


Sad as those results are, they do at least confirm that you did everything you could and that you made the right decision for him in the end. 

It is the worst decision to have to make, but Tello is no longer suffering. 

I don't envy you packing his things away.  Treat yourself to a large bar of chocolate or whatever your comfort of choice is. More big electronic hugs heading your way. RIP Tello.


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## Kasia (Feb 23, 2017)

JoesMum said:


> Sad as those results are, they do at least confirm that you did everything you could and that you made the right decision for him in the end.
> 
> It is the worst decision to have to make, but Tello is no longer suffering.
> 
> I don't envy you packing his things away.  Treat yourself to a large bar of chocolate or whatever your comfort of choice is. More big electronic hugs heading your way. RIP Tello.


I double the chocolate and triple the hugs.


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## dmmj (Feb 23, 2017)

sorry to hear the results I've been watching this thread. I wrote a little poem called Rainbow Bridge for tortoises for just this occasion you can do a forum search for it and find it. Unfortunately tortoises are biologically hardwired to hide their illness for as long as possible because in the wild a sick tortoise gets eaten very quickly your tortoise hid the illness for a very long time and didn't show any symptoms for as long as possible just because that's what they're programmed to do, by the time symptoms usually appear they're very sick. Once again please accept my condolences


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## Kirstystewart (Jan 24, 2018)

I have had this little tortoise given to me I very concerned about his Eye, it’s opened a bit more than when we had him but it looks like a white film over his Eye lid it’s on both sides any one ever had this 

Thanks


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