# "The temp should not go below 80 IF the humidity is high."



## Jacqui (Jul 12, 2012)

As the title says: "The temp should not go below 80 IF the humidity is high."
Every time I see somebody post that, I want to ask why and who says?

I think about all the rainy days and nights, tortoises spend outside and the temps are way lower then that, yet my tortoises do well. *knocks on my wooden head* I have never had a case of URI or anything here. I think about the fact that our humidity levels have been outside in the 60-70s (as per the local weather place), add to it the additional watering and even the amount of plants, I am sure my yards humidity readings are higher out there (but no, I don't have a reading for them). So even without any rain our humidity levels are fairly high and out night time temps last week dropped to the 60s. 

The tortoises inside the house during the summer are kept without additional heat, as I just leave windows open and fans blowing 24/7 here. I don't worry about temps or what time of day it is, when I add water to their substrate, I just do it. So I know full well they are on wet substrate and lower then 80 temps too.

Some may say well it's just those are hingebacks or maybe expand it to included all the forest types, but I have Russians, leopards, sulcatas, and even stars to mention a few kept that way also. These are not just adults, this is how I also keep my youngsters.

I think about the wild tortoises and want to know, what do you think happens to them when temps drop, it's raining or high humidity?

So those of you saying temps must be above 80 when humidity is high, what are you basing this upon?


----------



## Neal (Jul 12, 2012)

Awhile ago I had a severe URI issue with a couple of sri lanka stars. The night time temperature dipped down to the mid to low 70's when my timer pooped out. I was keeping the humidity high (at least above 70%). Shortly thereafter though, we stopped with the high humidity set ups. I have yet to hear of anyone with respiratory issues that are keeping things above 80, so that seems to be a "safety zone". 

Good topic for discussion, I only wish I had more to bring here...I've been reading a lot of opinions lately regarding night time temperatures and it seems like a lot of people feel that night time temperatures in the 70's or even 60's for some tortoises are very beneficial for tortoises. Haven't been able to find much concrete evidence, only opinions at this point.


----------



## Tom (Jul 12, 2012)

When I say this, it is in reference to baby sulcatas and leopards. One reason people always say to keep them dry is so that they don't get a respiratory infection. I have seen many cases of respiratory infection, especially in leopards, when temps get too low while humidity is high. I have never seen a single case of a leopard or sulcata getting a RI when temps were consistently no lower than 80. I have also heard this number from a lot of big time pros, but the main reason that I advocate it for these two species is because IT WORKS.

Leopards have a huge range, with a huge number of climates and microclimates within it, so it is hard to even discuss what happens in the "wild" with a leopard, but the sulcatas range is pretty homogenous throughout. In the wild, based on speculation of what happens in my burrows during our weather that simulates their wild weather, I doubt that they are ever exposed to temps much below 80 while down in their burrows, which is where they will be during the hot days or cooler nights.

I do not advocate 80, or any other temp, for Testudo, or Forest species, since I have not kept any of them with humidity, and I haven't kept many of them at all, like hingebacks for example. From listening to people who DO know what they are talking about, like GB, I believe that most Testudo, in most cases, should be allowed to be cooler at night, but I also don't know how much humidity they need or don't need to grow properly. It makes sense to me that a Mediterranean tortoise should be able to deal with some dampness and coolness at the same time.

At last years TTPG conference, a man gave a presentation on some asian turtles. He was in the Vietnamese jungle and temps were in the mid to high 90's with humidity hovering around 95%. He said it was so hot and humid that you could hardly breathe while standing. By chance he happened to find the species he was looking for and they were hidden down in the undergrowth in little caves and nooks and crannies. He said the temps where they were hanging out were between 68 and 72. He said every time he stood up he could hardly breathe, but down at turtle level, it was quite comfortable.

I'm going to fathom a guess that something similar goes on with forest hingebacks and maybe even redfoots in some areas too.

So in short, Jacqui, I advocate 80 for the two species that I know and keep, for two reasons. 1. Speculation based on what happens in the wild. 2. What I have personally seen fail and succeed in North American captive situations over two decades and literally hundreds or thousands of tortoises.


----------



## Jacqui (Jul 12, 2012)

As I stated, I also keep the leopards and sulcatas the same way, so it appears "IT WORKS" at the lower temps, too (quoting you there).



Neal said:


> Haven't been able to find much concrete evidence, only opinions at this point.



That's the problem I face, where is the evidence? How do you prove it works or not? I mean sure you hear from folks when things are going bad, but rarely when things are going good. Which makes sense because we come to places like this looking for help. Plus folks seem to more easily share the bad tings, then the good in life. So you can't base it on how often you hear about something happening, because those are inaccurate and biased numbers. 




Tom said:


> 2. What I have personally seen fail and succeed in North American captive situations over two decades and literally hundreds or thousands of tortoises.



Wow Tom, I thought I kept a lot of tortoises, but I can't come any where near to that. Of course, atleast in my humble opinion, in order to say I have "personally seen" something fail I would have to actually have been there every day with all those tortoises. Otherwise, I could not say I saw that or know for sure other factors may not have played a factor in the results. I could say I saw cases where this or that appears to be the case or I have read this or that. I am not talking about things I have only read or heard about, no second hand stuff in my comments. I am basing it on hands on, daily observations starting 20 years back and a couple hundred animals or so in my own care. I have heard many others who do the same and have the same results, also.


----------



## DeanS (Jul 12, 2012)

It's what LA and SD zoos practice...I just thought it was par for the course! I've occasionally let the larger torts stay out at night in 50+ temps and have had no URI issues...but then it tends to be dry when the temps are below 80 here!


----------



## wellington (Jul 12, 2012)

I am one that says temps not lower then 80 with high humidity. I also am stating it for leopards and sulcatas. I base this on Tom's knowledge and experience, as I try to follow his way as close as possible. I have no experience either way. I just know I have followed Tom's way and I have not had a single problem since. I have seen others that seen to always have some kind of a problem. I am one of the guilty ones of saying it and I always will. It works, not to say the other way doesn't but I use this way, it's easy, safe and works great for me. I'm not one to mess with what works, especially when a life could be on the line. Just wanted to fess up my quilt


----------



## CactusVinnie (Jul 12, 2012)

Jacqui,

I think the answer is in the duration of cold/humid conditions, how many degrees below 80, species and- sometimes- age. Plus a few odd factors that can occur at a certain moment.

As for the wild, combined humid and cold events are very easily tolerated for species adapted for that, or usually short-lived and/or extremely infrequent for species in dry areas, not adapted to cope such combinations. 
In very cold and humid weather, even wild Spanish T. graeca get RI, some of them not getting better when good weather returns- but most of them do. Well, this can be speculated as due the recent origin, maybe introduced by man from N-Africa... It happens in Balkans too, where Ibera and Boettgeri occur naturally- but very rare... few individuals suffer, and most of them recover- per total, even lethal for a few tortoises, it is insignificant for populations.

I am pretty sure that extreme, unusual cold/humid events kill a few tortoises in habitat, but that doesn't mean the survivors will generate a hardier breed etc.; they just survived, otherwise we could have found them in locations where such events are more frequent; but NO, it's just like _some *individuals* cannot take a single such event_, and _some *populations* (or even *species*) can survive_ if such events are not too frequent.

Hope I formulated it in a comprehensible manner...


----------

