# Red-foots and fruit: Some ideas



## Madkins007 (Aug 21, 2009)

Those of us who deal with Red-foots and other forest species like Hinge-backs know that field study after field study tells of our animals eating a lot of fruit... but do we always know what they mean by the term 'fruit'?

Botanically, the way the researchers use the term, it basically describes any part of a plant that contains at least one seed and some nutrients for the seed. Within the definition of 'fruit' are many groupings, nuts, berries, 'false berries', various 'compound' fruits, legumes, and more.

At the grocery store, however, we tend to define fruit by sweetness and moisture content regardless of what the structure actually is (like "this isn't a fruit! It is not sweet and tasty!").

Some things we call 'vegetables' that are really fruits include:
- Cucumbers, okra, corn and zucchini.
- Eggplants and Bell Peppers- which are actually berries, along with tomatoes and avocados.
- Squash and pumpkin are 'pepos', a category that includes the melons.
- Peas and beans are legumes, another kind of fruit.

The things that are 'really' vegetables are the other parts of the plants- leaves, stalks, bulbs, tubers, roots, etc. without seeds.

Why should we care? Because these 'new' fruits give us more options. Like most fruit, they are rich in fiber, water, vitamins and nutrients while being low in oxalic acid and other 'antinutrients'. They are also lower in sugars than more traditional fruits. 

For example: people often toss in some shredded carrot to get vitamin A and other nutrients, while yellow squash or pumpkin can offer many of the same things- and be a more natural food item.

On the 'down side', they are also rather low in calcium, like most other fruits (papaya, figs, and cacti fruits are the big exceptions to this).

So, give your torts a treat and try something different for breakfast tomorrow!

NOTE: This is NOT meant to imply in any way that ALL tortoises need fruit- this is aimed mostly at Red- and Yellow-foot keepers, and hopefully is also helpful to keepers of Hinge-backs, Elongateds, and Burmese Tortoises to some degree.

NOTE 2: Inclusion in this list does mean the stuff is good to feed too much. For example, tomatoes are known to cause diarrhea in many tortoises (mine never seem bothered, though), peas are considered high in protein, etc. As in all things- moderation and variety. And remember the basics- heat, light, water, etc.

NOTE 3: Before you 'poo poo' this idea, take a look at some of the more common fruits eaten by Red-foots- mombin fruit, 'monstera' fruits, jaqura, etc. Most have tough rinds, firm and rather 'dry' flesh, and unusual flavors and textures- like the rather familiar fig- a big favorite! Nothing like the nice, juicy mangos and pineapples many of us use.

(For more info, try the Wikipedia entry for 'fruit')


----------



## Candy (Aug 21, 2009)

Always love your posts Madkins007 they're always so informative. You must do a lot of research on these tortoises. Thank you again and it's good to know that I can feed Dale even more stuff than he already pigs out on.


----------



## fstyle28 (Aug 29, 2009)

Definitely some "fruit" for thought.
Well written piece.


----------



## Bryan (Aug 29, 2009)

IIRC they say that Tomatoes aren't very good for torts.


----------



## Yvonne G (Aug 29, 2009)

Bryan said:


> IIRC they say that Tomatoes aren't very good for torts.



I don't feed them to hatchlings because of the acidity, but occasionally to adults is ok.

Yvonne

I love it when somebody else does the research for me. 

Yvonne


----------



## DoctorCosmonaut (Aug 29, 2009)

nuts are fruit too! lol random fact


----------



## Madkins007 (Aug 31, 2009)

DoctorCosmonaut said:


> nuts are fruit too! lol random fact



Ahem... "Botanically, the way the researchers use the term, it basically describes any part of a plant that contains at least one seed and some nutrients for the seed. Within the definition of 'fruit' are many groupings, *nuts*, berries, 'false berries', various 'compound' fruits, legumes, and more."




Bryan said:


> IIRC they say that Tomatoes aren't very good for torts.



It is often kinda funny what is not supposed to be good and why. Tomatoes are bad because they are acidic or cause diarrhea or or or...

I am pretty conservative about what I feed the younger guys, but the bigger guys love their red juicy berries. I don't do it often- and that is sort of the point of the thread- opening up more dietary options so we can rotate things like this in once in a while!


----------



## Maggie Cummings (Aug 31, 2009)

I don't keep redfoots and don't usually read anything pertaining to them unless I see that Madkins007 has posted, then I know I am going to read something that is well phrased, intelligent, seriously researched and gonna teach me something. 
Thanks ever so...


----------



## Madkins007 (Sep 1, 2009)

maggie3fan said:


> I don't keep redfoots and don't usually read anything pertaining to them unless I see that Madkins007 has posted, then I know I am going to read something that is well phrased, intelligent, seriously researched and gonna teach me something.
> Thanks ever so...



:shy: Awww, shucks. Thanks, Maggie!


----------



## Redfoot NERD (Sep 2, 2009)

I'm too simple-minded to understand 95% of what Mark posts!

So I give mine a couple things.. and they must be doing O.K. because they breed and make babies! Some.. if not 'most'.. of that stuff is too expensive to feed the OVER [ was that 17 or 37? - I lost count ] "fruit-eaters" in my group! And that doesn't count the ones that never eat fruit..







Terry K


----------



## Maggie Cummings (Sep 2, 2009)

Redfoot NERD said:


> I'm too simple-minded to understand 95% of what Mark posts!
> 
> So I give mine a couple things.. and they must be doing O.K. because they breed and make babies! Some.. if not 'most'.. of that stuff is too expensive to feed the OVER [ was that 17 or 37? - I lost count ] "fruit-eaters" in my group! And that doesn't count the ones that never eat fruit..
> 
> ...



I don't have 37 animals, but I DO have 27 and I feed a lot of what he listed...most of what I get is free. You might try making friends with the people in the produce dept where you shop. Most times they are glad to save stuff for you. In another thread someplace here I posted pictures of the free produce I get spilling out of my refrigerator. I get more free produce then my chelonia actually eat.
Yesterday part of what I got is cantaloupe, acorn squash, yellow squash and watermelon as well as a large quantity of lettuces.
They even threw in carrot tops for my bird. All I did was make nice with them and now twice a week I go in and get free tortoise food. I love it!!!


----------



## Redfoot NERD (Sep 2, 2009)

Maggie in the part of the world I live in they aren't allowed to give produce away... what nonsense huh! They box it up and throw it out back where it is picked up by the thrash collector. Welcome to small-town southeast US!

Nerd


----------



## Maggie Cummings (Sep 2, 2009)

Redfoot NERD said:


> Maggie in the part of the world I live in they aren't allowed to give produce away... what nonsense huh! They box it up and throw it out back where it is picked up by the thrash collector. Welcome to small-town southeast US!
> 
> Nerd



I live in a very small town in the Pacific North West and because it IS a small town is why I get free produce, I go to a small Mom and Pop grocery store, a bigger store has rules from corporate they have to follow. Isn't there a small grocery close to you that you could talk to?


----------



## tortoisenerd (Sep 3, 2009)

I haven't wanted to ask for free stuff since I have one baby tort, but I do put in suggestions for things I'd like them to purchase. Apparently a lot of other tort owners shop at my local organic specialty store in addition to me! Some things I want however they just don't get enough requests for.


----------



## DoctorCosmonaut (Sep 9, 2009)

Maggie, I need you to hook me up with some connections or something!


----------



## Candy (Sep 9, 2009)

Madkins007, I am always greatful the detailed research you do of Redfoots. The fruit that you listed here is this what they eat in Brazil? And if it is can you buy it here in the U.S.? I'm of course not referring to the pineapple and the mangos. 

fNOTE 3: Before you 'poo poo' this idea, take a look at some of the more common fruits eaten by Red-foots- mombin fruit, 'monstera' fruits, jaqura, etc. Most have tough rinds, firm and rather 'dry' flesh, and unusual flavors and textures- like the rather familiar fig- a big favorite! Nothing like the nice, juicy mangos and pineapples many of us use.


----------



## Madkins007 (Sep 10, 2009)

Figs are the biggest thing they eat that you can usually find locally. I've never seen the other stuff in the real world. I've googled them to see what they are like and they are pretty odd. You might be able to get them in a specialty South American or Caribbean market


----------



## Chewbecca (Sep 11, 2009)

This is a fig:





Right?
I've never seen fig before.

So, what do you do?
cut it open and feed them the center, seeds and all?
Just let them go to town on it?


----------



## Madkins007 (Sep 11, 2009)

I like to feed fruits as complete as possible- that way they get the rind and other elements. It also acts as an enrichment as well.

When I feed things that are roundish or have a tough rind, I break the skin first to give them a starting point- but it is fun to watch the bigger guys rip into things like whole plums and cantelopes!


----------



## Chewbecca (Sep 12, 2009)

Well, Stag is just a little guy still, so I'll probably gut the fruit and give it to him like that.

I don't know that a 2 1/2" tortoise could bust into a cantaloupe or fig by himself.


----------



## Madkins007 (Sep 12, 2009)

Chewbecca said:


> Well, Stag is just a little guy still, so I'll probably gut the fruit and give it to him like that.
> 
> I don't know that a 2 1/2" tortoise could bust into a cantaloupe or fig by himself.



Of course, in the wild, they always get the waiter to take care of this for them!


----------



## Candy (Sep 12, 2009)

Madkins007 said:


> Chewbecca said:
> 
> 
> > Well, Stag is just a little guy still, so I'll probably gut the fruit and give it to him like that.
> ...



That was a good one Madkins I was thinking the same thing.


----------



## Madkins007 (Sep 13, 2009)

Seriously, my little guys sometimes struggle with plums, cantelope, watermelon, and other smooth, hard, or 'tight' skins and rinds. Like I said earlier, though, I often rip a chunk or two out of the fruit to make it easier for them, and to simulate a fallen fruit.


----------



## Chewbecca (Sep 14, 2009)

Yeah, seriously. I'm serious, too.
I'll probably cut open the fruit and give him a chunk.

As I really don't see my little guy chomping through a solid piece of fruit with a thick rind of sorts.

I know, there's no nice, adoring humans out in the wild to do this for them, but mine's not in the wild.
He's in my home. With an adoring human who will cut his fruit for him while he's still a baby.


----------



## Redfoot NERD (Sep 14, 2009)

EVER CONSIDER(?) WHEN THE FRUIT FALLS OFF OF THE TREE IT'S *VERY RIPE*.. SO WHEN IT HITS THE GROUND IT WILL BURST OPEN.. READY TO PERFORM THE NATURAL ACT OF "RE-SEEDING" IT'S OWN KIND! Unless of course an omnivorous reptile, etc. comes along and proceeds in eating it.......

NERD


----------



## Jacqui (Sep 15, 2009)

Chewbecca said:


> I've never seen fig before.



Neither have I, and I have looked and looked. So where and when do you guys find the figs? I really want to try some, especially on my Hingebacks.


----------



## Redfoot NERD (Sep 15, 2009)

Mark you always come up with something new as a result of your "research time". Could we see the results of your 'new-improved' [ researched ] methods of caring for your redfoots please? I would think you would be happy to share with us how yours look and how long you have been keeping them.. ? (based on those findings?) 

PICS PLEASE? 

Thanks Brother...

Terry K


----------



## Nay (Sep 15, 2009)

First off, great post!! thanks 
Second that fig looks soooo delicious, I love them and we have them around where I live in certain times of year. They are pricey!!! Not sure if I would share.
And yes, the stores around here also will not give you any produce, they claim it encourages people to throw out good stuff. I did find a little store that I played nice nice too and they sometimes save me the the greens, some is better than none, I am the turtle lady.
Na


----------



## Madkins007 (Sep 15, 2009)

Redfoot NERD said:


> Mark you always come up with something new as a result of your "research time". Could we see the results of your 'new-improved' [ researched ] methods of caring for your redfoots please? I would think you would be happy to share with us how yours look and how long you have been keeping them.. ? (based on those findings?)
> 
> PICS PLEASE?
> 
> ...



LOL! I'm not big on posting photos. I have a cheap camera and mediocre technique. I do documentary photos of my guys every month or two, but the photos ain't pretty- the torts are cute as the dickens, but the photos are nothing I want to share. One of my kids is a professional photographer and will be shooting the herd soon. I'll share those photos when I have them. I'm also not sure what the photos would show to support my research.

I've never claimed your numbers or years of experience. I started this herd coming on 4 years ago with 2, and now I have 5, two of which are yours. 

You seem to be suggesting that the post or research is in error or not good for our tortoises. Could you clarify your concerns?


----------



## Yvonne G (Sep 15, 2009)

Redfoot NERD said:


> Unless of course an omnivorous reptile, etc. comes along and proceeds in eating it.......
> 
> NERD



But, even then, Terry, the seeds pass right on through the omnivorous reptile, and get planted because of the poop!! 



Jacqui said:


> Chewbecca said:
> 
> 
> > I've never seen fig before.
> ...



I bought a 5 gallon fig tree plant at Lowe's last year and it was covered with figs this year. Its not even as tall as I am. And because of another thread here on the forum I discovered I can also feed them the leaves of the fig tree!

Yvonne


----------



## Madkins007 (Sep 15, 2009)

emysemys said:


> I bought a 5 gallon fig tree plant at Lowe's last year and it was covered with figs this year. Its not even as tall as I am. And because of another thread here on the forum I discovered I can also feed them the leaves of the fig tree!
> 
> Yvonne



OK, I have a real 'black thumb' and I am going to ask what is probably a stupid question: Is the Ficus tree the same thing as the Fig? 

I mean, I know that the fig is technically 'Ficus carica', but if I buy a Ficus at the store, will it fruit out or do I need to look for something special?

(By the way, the Wikipedia article on figs is pretty cool- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_fig. Figs also have a key role in Raiders of the Lost Ark )


----------



## Yvonne G (Sep 15, 2009)

No...what is described as "ficus" in the plant department is more than likely a house plant. You would buy a fig tree (a member of the ficus family) in the garden shop of the home improvement store, or at a nursery. They are usually labeled as Black Fig or White Fig, not ficus.

Yvonne


----------



## Madkins007 (Sep 16, 2009)

OK, so I started feeding my herd Fig Newtons, and...


JOKING, just joking! But dang they are good!


----------



## Redfoot NERD (Sep 16, 2009)

emysemys 
old timer

Posts: 4,305
Joined: Jan 2008 
Reputation: 18 

RE: Red-foots and fruit: Some ideas 
(09-14-2009 04:35 PM)Redfoot NERD Wrote: 
Unless of course an omnivorous reptile, etc. comes along and proceeds in eating it.......

NERD

But, even then, Terry, the seeds pass right on through the omnivorous reptile, and get planted because of the poop!! 

******************************************** 

Yvonne of course the point was.. that they were talking about having to get thru the tough skin/rind so their redfoot could eat the fruit! The redfoot doesn't have to deal with "un-ripe" fruit in the wild. And besides that.. my older/adults don't care -- I 'chunk' it up ( cantaloupe ) and they eat the rinds and all!

But yes.. I'm sure part of the "seed-sowing" process is conducted by the fruit eaters!

NERD



Madkins007 said:


> Redfoot NERD said:
> 
> 
> > Mark you always come up with something new as a result of your "research time". Could we see the results of your 'new-improved' [ researched ] methods of caring for your redfoots please? I would think you would be happy to share with us how yours look and how long you have been keeping them.. ? (based on those findings?)
> ...


 

When you or others do all of this research you find/uncover a multitude of "observations" that are almost deemed as "new-and-improved" ways to care for redfoot tortoises. It almost comes off as re-inventing the wheel on how to care for redfoots: add a little here.. add a little there.. a little more of this.. a little less of that.. variety, variety and variety!

And after speaking with others thru email and on the phone.. all of this is scaring those new to caring for their redfoots -- afraid they are going to do something wrong. Afraid it's going to end up looking like a 'hand-grenade' next week because it wasn't fed 17 different things that week.

I am concerned that there is seldom or ever given a reference.. to the source -- and when I ask the author [ of this new-improved 'system' ] how their redfoots *look* as a result(?) I get: No reply or "Don't you have anything else better to do?" or I don't have pics. If someone has a system that works they WILL document it.. otherwise it's just "empty" words.

If that isn't bad enough we have those.. that don't even keep redfoots.. giving advise to new redfoot owners. Is it any wonder there is such confusion to new tort keepers?

There are "BASICS" that have proven to produce healthy, great-looking long lived redfoot tortoises. What ever happened to "keep-it-simple"?

Don't get me wrong.. I'm always open to a real "break-thru" of new findings when it comes to caring for redfoots. I ask for the source so we all can learn as needed. [ in other words "I wanna see the end results" ]

Let's all of us give info that brings life to redfoots tortoises.. not attention to the ability to research!

Terry K


----------



## Candy (Sep 16, 2009)

Redfoot NERD said:


> emysemys
> old timer
> 
> Posts: 4,305
> ...





I'm sorry Terry, but the real problem with you and research is that all you don't want anyone else to have the spotlight and that's all there is to you and this crap that you're writing about others on this forum. I don't really know to whom your talking about when you're saying that people like Madkins are scaring them. Maybe you should put your research somewhere else than just pictures and rude talk. You are very insulting to most of us who try to help. I myself am quite tired of it and I'm sure I'm not the only one. I'll probably have something said to me about this post, but let me tell you it will be worth it. You need to be nicer because the pictures of your Redfoots isn't proof enough that that's the only way to do it. I don't know if you'll understand this or not. Maybe this will help you. I've raised 4 boys and I work with children everyday, but this does not make me an expert on how they should be raised or how they should turn out. I could take all kinds of pictures of these children, but that still won't tell you if they got the right food or sunlight or playtime. Please just stop insulting those who try to help others whether they're right or wrong they're just trying because that's what we do on this forum. And if I don't like someones answer I don't have to take it to heart. Thank you for your time.  And please stop posting that "others" don't know that they're doing I'm one of those "others" and I think I'm doing great with Dale.


----------



## Redfoot NERD (Sep 17, 2009)

Candy.. Mark asked so I answered him. Why would that insult you or anyone else?

I can only encourage you to read the real "jist" of my reply...

Terry K


----------



## Jacqui (Sep 17, 2009)

Candy said:


> I'm sorry Terry, but the real problem with you and research is that all you don't want anyone else to have the spotlight and that's all there is to you and this crap that you're writing about others on this forum.
> 
> ... You are very insulting to most of us who try to help. I myself am quite tired of it and I'm sure I'm not the only one. I'll probably have something said to me about this post, but let me tell you it will be worth it. You need to be nicer because the pictures of your Redfoots isn't proof enough that that's the only way to do it.


Candy, I for one will not be saying anything negative to you about this post. I think you conveyed the thoughts of many folks.

Now....Everybody has had a chance to respond to things that have been said, let's get back onto the subject that this thread was written about...fruit and redfoots. It had been a great thread, until it was taken way off subject and has started being a mud tossing. If anybody wishes to continue this mud sligging, please go in the PMs to each other. Even in the PMs be nice and remember that at any time the other person can choose to not respond.

Sooooo....for those who have gotten to have a fig, what do they taste like?
Madkins I was already thinking how good Fig Newtons would taste yesterday, sure didn't need a reminder this am.


----------



## Madkins007 (Sep 19, 2009)

Redfoot NERD said:


> I am concerned that there is seldom or ever given a reference.. to the source -- and when I ask the author [ of this new-improved 'system' ] how their redfoots *look* as a result(?) I get: No reply or "Don't you have anything else better to do?" or I don't have pics. If someone has a system that works they WILL document it.. otherwise it's just "empty" words.
> ...(snip)...
> Don't get me wrong.. I'm always open to a real "break-thru" of new findings when it comes to caring for redfoots. I ask for the source so we all can learn as needed. [ in other words "I wanna see the end results" ]
> 
> Terry K



But, I gave the source. All I said in the OP was that the term 'fruit' as used by field researchers is being used in the scientific sense, and gave some examples of what that means. I cited my primary source ('fruits' in wikipedia) and I stated in the footnotes that this did not mean each food item mentioned was not automatically recommended, etc.

If people are contacting you confused by things I am writing, you are, as always, free to have them contact me directly. You already know my phone number and email address.

.....................

Getting back to fruit... quick question- my torts LOVE papaya, but it is not often carried cheaply. To give it to my torts, I just cut it up- but how does one actually eat this thing???


----------



## Yvonne G (Sep 19, 2009)

For the tortoises, I wash it, cut it in 4ths and feed it, seeds, skin and all. But for humans, I imagine you would peel it and clean out the seeds. I've seen papaya juice and papaya ice cream, but I've never eaten it myself. I'm more of a popcorn and ice cream kind of snacker!

Yvonne


----------



## Kadaan (Sep 20, 2009)

I'd always cut off the stem part about 1/2" (so the stringy thing doesn't hold the seeds in and they just come right out,) cut it in half lengthwise, scoop out the seeds with a spoon, then just hold it in my hand at eat it with a spoon. The farmer's market in Hilo on the Big Island was walking distance from college and you could get them 4 or 5 for $1, depending on how big they were.


----------



## Jacqui (Sep 20, 2009)

emysemys said:


> I've seen papaya juice and papaya ice cream, but I've never eaten it myself. I'm more of a popcorn and ice cream kind of snacker!
> 
> Yvonne



I always try a little bite of all the fruits I fed. My Mom would, when I growing up, pick us up new fruits that our store would happen to get in, just for us to sample. I guess I have just carried it on.


----------



## Madkins007 (Sep 20, 2009)

Thanks, guys! Next food run I'll give it a try. I've also discovered a Caribbean/Island food mart, and I am wondering if they carry any of the more native foods. I'll let you know.


----------



## alidsalbern (Sep 25, 2009)

HI,

I have had Ruby for 2 mos.She weighs 478 gms and is approx 6 inches front to back. I had a fecal done on her as soon as I got her It was neg. She has had loose foul smelling stools since I got her. Green brown in color with mucous. Corn passes right thru her undigested. I give her a varied diet of mustard/dandelion greens veggies and a little fruit. Tru to the species she eats like a pig. I also soak her in warm water a few times a day. She chews a lot on the calcium block in her habitat. She is on a thermatically controlled heat pad. Any ideas ? I am an RN an her stool is some of the foulest smelling I have come across. Thx Mark


----------



## Yvonne G (Sep 25, 2009)

Hi Mark:







to the forum!!

Its usually too much fruit and animal protein that causes the feces to stink badly. Try offering more dark leafy greens for a while and see if that doesn't help a bit.

I don't keep redfoot tortoises, but I do have a nice little colony of Yellowfoot tortoises. Mostly they graze on broad-leafed weeds and plants, but when I feed them, I offer escarole, endive, red or green-leaf lettuce, various kinds of squashes occasionally kale and dandelion, etc. Their feces are dark and firm and I don't notice a smell.

Yvonne


----------



## Madkins007 (Sep 25, 2009)

alidsalbern said:


> HI,
> 
> I have had Ruby for 2 mos.She weighs 478 gms and is approx 6 inches front to back. I had a fecal done on her as soon as I got her It was neg. She has had loose foul smelling stools since I got her. Green brown in color with mucous. Corn passes right thru her undigested. I give her a varied diet of mustard/dandelion greens veggies and a little fruit. Tru to the species she eats like a pig. I also soak her in warm water a few times a day. She chews a lot on the calcium block in her habitat. She is on a thermatically controlled heat pad. Any ideas ? I am an RN an her stool is some of the foulest smelling I have come across. Thx Mark



Corn does that pretty much for humans as well. I offer an occasional (monthly or so) ear of fresh corn to the herd when they are outside as a treat, but it does not play a real role in my normal diet.

Mustard greens- my guys rarely eat these. I doubt they are part of the problem, but Turnip Greens are an option you can try.

Heat pad- if the soil temps are too high, and her belly is getting too warm, it can mess up the digestion process. Lay a thick pad or something on the soil and measure the temp under it after a few minutes- see if it is getting too hot. Gentle belly warmth is good, hot tummys are not.

I think the biggest problem is the too-frequent soaking. It tends to stimulate defecation, and does not allow the food the long digestion process Red-foots use most of the time. 

If the habitat is nice and humid (at least some areas in the 90%+), much of the food is moist, and there is free access to water, and there is no sigh of dehydration (light body weight, sunken/watery eyes, very dry skin), you can probably only do a weekly soak or less. Some of us rarely if ever forcibly soak our tortoises.

You might also try some more fibrous foods- mulberry or hibiscus leaves, timothy grass or hay, etc.- but I would only change one thing at a time, starting with the soaks, then checking the temps, then wait a few defecations and see if things are getting better.


----------



## Yvonne G (Sep 25, 2009)

The advice in your last paragraph is excellent. Too often we give a person several things to change in their tortoise-keeping practices in order to solve a problem, and they change them all, never knowing which piece of advice was the one that worked! Thanks for that insight!

Yvonne


----------



## Candy (Sep 25, 2009)

I think the biggest problem is the too-frequent soaking. It tends to stimulate defecation, and does not allow the food the long digestion process Red-foots use most of the time. 

If the habitat is nice and humid (at least some areas in the 90%+), much of the food is moist, and there is free access to water, and there is no sigh of dehydration (light body weight, sunken/watery eyes, very dry skin), you can probably only do a weekly soak or less. Some of us rarely if ever forcibly soak our tortoises



Madkins, I thought we were supposed to soak our tortoises 2 to 3 times a week especially in the summer time. I do soak Dale and he seems to like it am I doing it too much, is that what your saying? I never thought of the digestion of the food going to fast, interesting thought. I'm curious if anyone else has any information on this.


----------



## Yvonne G (Sep 26, 2009)

The OP was soaking three or four times a day. This is what Madkins was talking about. Your two or three times a week is fine.

Yvonne


----------



## Candy (Sep 26, 2009)

emysemys said:


> The OP was soaking three or four times a day. This is what Madkins was talking about. Your two or three times a week is fine.
> 
> Yvonne



Thanks Yvonne. I thought it was O.K. because Dale is looking pretty good and he's even starting to marble.


----------



## Madkins007 (Sep 26, 2009)

Candy- soaking frequency is an interesting debate. I only soak monthly or so unless my torts show signs of dehydration or stress. There are a lot of pros and cons to soaking, and I am just not sure it is a big help if everything else is done correctly. 

However, if you are going to or need to soak, you'll want to find a nice balance between the benefits and the stress. I would SUGGEST that 2 or 3x weekly is a little much, but I don't know your situation, how dry it is for you, etc. 

I'll be happy to share my opinions (in case you have not guessed, I LIKE sharing my opinions!) on this topic, but possibly in a different thread.



emysemys said:


> The advice in your last paragraph is excellent. Too often we give a person several things to change in their tortoise-keeping practices in order to solve a problem, and they change them all, never knowing which piece of advice was the one that worked! Thanks for that insight!
> 
> Yvonne



I'm going to blush! Thanks!


----------



## Maggie Cummings (Sep 26, 2009)

I raised a Gopherus agassizii from a hatchling. I soaked her everyday. I was taught and I believe that we keep these small tortoises on 'slow cook' under hot lights all day so dehydration could be a problem. So anyhow, I soaked her daily as I do my other tortoises. My box turtles have constant access to water and soak themselves. I started soaking her every other day when she was 3 years old and continued that regime as she grew. When she was 4 years old she stopped eating and after a few days (not weeks, days) I took her to the Vet and the first thing she said was "this tortoise is dehydrated". How could that be? I soaked her all the time. She was dead in 3 weeks.
I realize it is a contradiction, but I remain an advocate of soaking and I think that once they get used to soaking it does not stress them and they stop pooping in the water so the theory of soaking causing too much pooping so the tort can't utilize his food is not valid in my house. I have 8 small tortoises right now and when I put them in to soak they all dunk their faces under the water and drink deeply. They are only a few months old and none show signs of stress in the water and they don't poop in it either. That is my experience and my opinion.

It bothers me to hear that someone only soaks his tortoises when they show signs of dehydration...why would you wait that long? How is that beneficial to any animal?


----------



## Yvonne G (Sep 27, 2009)

The difference here, as I see it, is that redfoot tortoises usually don't have the hot lights that we keep the desert species under.

Yvonne


----------



## Madkins007 (Sep 27, 2009)

Maggie- we have discussed our differing opinions on soaking before. As I said, each person's care situations are different in many, many ways- species, ambient humidity, etc. I understand where you are coming from, and would be happy to discuss it with you in more depth if you wanna start a thread on it apart from this one on fruit. (Please understand, I'm not trying to be evasive or curt- I'm just trying to keep the thread focused. I really WOULD like to discuss this more if you are interested!)


----------



## sameul (Oct 11, 2009)

Hello,

I read that article.That is very nice infornation contained by that.I like ypur idea for sharing this information,that is so helpful and required.Red-foots and fruit are really healthy.Thank you for sharing the comment..


----------

