# Starting breeding



## TuckerDucker (May 5, 2019)

I'm not planning on breeding, this is mostly just out of curiosity, but how do breeders get started? With mammals and such, ethical breeders don't just breed any animal; they get pedigreed, healthy, top-of-the-line animals from other good breeders to breed. Is it not as high-maintenance with torts? Can you just take two adults of the same species regardless of where they're from or genetics? My tort was born with an indented shell, could he hypothetically still be okay/ethical to breed?
I know I sound silly, it's just interesting not seeing talk of genetics or anything in the tortoise community when that's all I see in other communities when it comes to breeding.


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## SweetGreekTorts (May 5, 2019)

When it comes to genetics and taxonomy, @HermanniChris is your guy. He's very knowledgeable with that stuff.

For breeding, pairs are more brutal than friendly because males are so aggressive. So it's recommended to have a few females for a male, regardless of species.

I would never just take two subspecies of any type and breed them. Like the Testudo graeca (Greeks) for example, which I'm acquiring every subspecies available to breed:

There's the Ibera, the terrestris, the nabeulensis, cyrenaica, soussensis, marokkensis, anamurensis, etc. They are all Greeks, but they are all different subspecies from different locales and should never be crossbred. Sadly there are lots of breeders out there who don't care and sell hybrids just to make money. I prefer pure bloodlines, so I'm very picky about who I buy my babies from that I am currently raising to breed in the future.

It's the same with the Hermann's. Lots of different locales within that species and mixing them is only hurting their bloodlines. The Hermann's species even has its own Studbook.

Torts born with physical abnormalities, such as mis-scutes, etc, do not pass those traits to their offspring. Only color morphs (albino, ivory, etc) are genetic traits that can be passed on.


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## Tom (May 5, 2019)

SweetGreekTorts said:


> Torts born with physical abnormalities, such as mis-scutes, etc, do not pass those traits to their offspring. Only color morphs (albino, ivory, etc) are genetic traits that can be passed on.



Good info up to this point. The above quoted info isn't always correct. Cosmetic defects caused by humans raising them wrong, like pyramiding, are not passed on genetically, but some scute abnormalities are genetic and do get passed on.


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## SweetGreekTorts (May 5, 2019)

Tom said:


> Good info up to this point. The above quoted info isn't always correct. Cosmetic defects caused by humans raising them wrong, like pyramiding, are not passed on genetically, but some scute abnormalities are genetic and do get passed on.


Thanks for clarifying. I'd always thought that some developmental abnormalities, like mis-scutes, was the result of incubation temperatures and was not a genetic trait. I'm always learning something new! [emoji106]


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## Tom (May 5, 2019)

SweetGreekTorts said:


> Thanks for clarifying. I'd always thought that some developmental abnormalities, like mis-scutes, was the result of incubation temperatures and was not a genetic trait. I'm always learning something new! [emoji106]


Sometimes it is due to incubation temp spikes, but other times its genetic. We had a thread on this 10 years ago here, and I can't find it now. I used to also think it was only temp related since I had never seen it until the one year my incubators got a little too hot in my reptile room. They explained otherwise on that old thread, and since then I've seen it myself in person. I'm always learning new things here too!


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## Chass (May 6, 2019)

How old are the sulcatas when they are ready to breed?


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## Tom (May 21, 2019)

Chass said:


> How old are the sulcatas when they are ready to breed?


Its not age, its size. Females can breed at 16-17" and males at 14".

There are occasional exceptions, but these are the general sizes I've seen over the years.


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## dmmj (May 21, 2019)

SweetGreekTorts said:


> So it's recommended to have a few females for a male


That has always been my philosophy


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