# My Best Night Box Design Yet



## Tom

After much thought about what worked and what I wanted to improve over previous attempts, here is the latest version with a step by step pictorial on how I did it. It is time for my 2010 South African herd to move outside. They are moving into a 16x20' completely closed in enclosure. The enclosure is a wooden frame enclosed top to bottom with welded wire. It has a wire roof and the wire extends 18" down into the ground. The actual night box is 4x8x2'. I found a mini oil-filled heater to heat it with. The heater is on a thermostat and will be set to 80 for about half of the year and 70 over the warmer months.

Here is the lid. You can see the insulation in place.






Here is the plywood cover going over the insulation in the lid. The lid fits on top of the box and is hinged. There will be weatherstripping all around the top and the lip on the lid keeps the rain out of the box. You can see a finished lid for a second box in the background.





Here is the bottom. Notice the door notch and how that will fit in later.





Insulation in the bottom. All the insulation is 1.5" thick and has the shiny mylar foil side pointing to the outside. Don't know if that matters much, but thats how I did it.





Insulation on the floor all covered up.





Here the front and back are attached. Notice the door taking shape. Since 9 animals will initially share this, and as they get older they will get bigger, I went kinda big with the door at 26x16". This way one of them won't be able to sit in the doorway and block all the others in or out, and later, when they reach adult size, they will easily fit in and out of this door.





Another view of the front with the sides going up.





Here the side wall insulation is in place and about to be covered up. This box is also double caulked to keep out any cold drafts on those below freezing winter nights. The only air movement will be from the door, or when I open the lid.





All buttoned up.





Here goes the front insulation.





The front insulation is all covered up here. The 2x4 blocks there will support a 2x10" water tub holding shelf. Having containers of water inside will keep the humidity up in the night box, and act as a bit of a heat sink. This technique has been working very well in my underground sulcata night box.





Here's a top view showing the area where the heater will live, the weather stripping in place, the door flaps, and the 2x4 in the back that the lid hinges attach to.




 
Here is the front with paint and door flaps and water shelves in place.





Here is the door. I will carve out the dirt where the door/ramp hits the ground so it sits flush. One "weak" spot of previous designs was the simple plywood door. I went to great time and trouble to super insulate my night boxes, but then just used thin plywood to cover the door holes. This time the door shares the same 1.5" insulation as the rest of the box. Door open:





Door Closed:






Here you can see the heater installed, the metal heat shield above it, the water tubs for humidity on the shelves, and my purple shoe box that holds all my electrical stuff.





Here are some of the babies enjoying their bermuda grass bedding.






Here is a wide view showing some of the enclosure. The empty wooden box in the lower right foreground of the pic is their 4x8' shade table/planter box. I will be filling it and planting leopard tortoise food in their in the next few days.






One more view of the same thing from the other side.







Well that's it. Tell me what you think.


----------



## MasterOogway

This is great! Thanks!


----------



## wellington

I like it a lot. Thanks for the pictorial and commentary. Will help a lot of people out. Like me


One question. Do you treat the floor with anything to keep urine and poop from soaking in and soiling?


----------



## Yvonne G

And did you caulk the seams to keep urine from flowing down into the insulation?


----------



## LLLReptile

That looks extremely well built and sturdy - I'm sure it'll last quite a long time and suit the tortoises well! 

Very nice!

-Jen


----------



## bigred

It looks great and looks like you have a good space for them. I have been thinking about building an insulated box since your last post from the last one you built. I will need to build another soon enough, thanks for the step by step


----------



## N2TORTS

LQQKING good TOM!!!!!

....Good choice in your cordless too!


----------



## tortadise

Looks great man. Good stuff. Makita is good stuff too.


----------



## bigred

I think this is going to turn into a tool thread. I have the same chop saw, got it for 50.00 used its worked great for along time


----------



## N2TORTS

tortadise said:


> Looks great man. Good stuff. Makita is good stuff too.



one of the best!


----------



## Tom

emysemys said:



> And did you caulk the seams to keep urine from flowing down into the insulation?



Barb, I don't treat the inside with anything. Its just plain plywood. They poop and pee and it dries and I periodically rake it all out. I have boxes that have been going this way for several years now and no issues. I thought I'd have to replace floors after awhile, but they just don't seem to rot or have any issues.

And yes the seems are sealed both outside and inside the insulation. I sealed the seams before any insulation went in. Then I put in the insulation, covered it and sealed again.




N2TORTS said:


> LQQKING good TOM!!!!!
> 
> ....Good choice in your cordless too!



Those came as a two for one set. Impact drill and a standard. They are super strong and the battery lasts a long time. I bought the Makita over other brands because they sponsor Supercross and Motocross, but I am also SUPER happy with the product. I bought a set for the ranch and liked it so much, I went and bought another set for myself.

Bigred, I've chopped hundreds of boards with that saw. Love it. It was one of the cheapest ones available, but it has sure stood the test of time and still functions flawlessly.


----------



## EKLC

Looks like you've thought of everything, nice job Tom


----------



## DeanS

And...take my word for it folks...they look (much) better in person! And they are HEAVY!


----------



## Dizisdalife

Very nice job. I like the improvements. I am curious, why is the heater on the floor instead of on a shelf as you have done in the past? And, do you believe that the oil filled heater is a better choice than radiated panels and heated mats? Gotta build a bigger box for Chuck soon. He is growing so fast.


----------



## Lasciels Toy

Damn good work, the concrete wall will probably crumble before that box falls apart. Those ryobi chop saws will take a beating, that's for sure. I'm to spoiled from using slider miters for trim work >.< made them change out that exact chop saw for one hehe. And since we're on tool talk here. Those steel saw horses, never touch them again. I was rushing at work one day, caring them with the legs fold up but facing down. As I was walking through the sand with them, the legs dropped out and pinned four of my fingers on each hand and the legs dug into the sand. Let me tell you, pain so intense I went dumb and could figure out what to do to make the pain stop. Eventually I just crumpled to my knees and managed to slip my fingers out. No damage or broken bones but good lord did it hurt. So ya.....just personally, I never want to see those things again lol. 

And one suggestion, but you might have already thought of it. If you raised the cover around the heater and inch or 2, you would allow air to circulate better. heating the cold air as it sinks down and under the cover. Just a thought.


----------



## Thalatte

with the box being insulated does it also keep it cooler on hot days?


----------



## Tom

Dizisdalife said:


> Very nice job. I like the improvements. I am curious, why is the heater on the floor instead of on a shelf as you have done in the past? And, do you believe that the oil filled heater is a better choice than radiated panels and heated mats? Gotta build a bigger box for Chuck soon. He is growing so fast.



I like the oil heaters best because because even though they pull more power when on, they only pop on for a short while two or three times a night, vs. running 24/7 in winter on my heat mats and RHPs. Because they heat the oil and the oil stays hot long after the heating element kicks off, they keep things much warmer for less electricity. They also do a much better job of warming the air inside the box.

This oil heater is on the floor because this box is only 24" tall instead of 48" like the other one. There is not enough height inside to put it up on a shelf. I built this one shorter because the extra two feet in my taller box is just wasted unusable space. That means I have to heat double the air and it also takes quite a lot more lumber to make it that tall. Finally the taller box is so heavy that it took 5 people to carry it into place with the lid off. This smaller box was relatively easy for two of us to carry into place.

All my boxes will be two feet high and use oil heaters, from now on.




Thalatte said:


> with the box being insulated does it also keep it cooler on hot days?



I won't know that until summer. 

It sure seems like it will at least take longer to heat up. All the insulation and layers help to resist temperature change, so it should work both ways, in theory. I use sprinklers and misters to keep them cool in summer too.


----------



## patilraosaheb

Awesome.. Will think modular from this design.


----------



## Cowboy_Ken

Looks almost as great as me Tom. That's a fantastic design/thread and I think it should be stickied for future reference for those folks that just gotta have that cute little baby. 
Have you made a second one as a guest room for me yet?


----------



## Team Gomberg

what purpose do the bricks around the box serve?


----------



## ascott

Tom....so, I am going to sound really girlie and all here....but how many black widows have you encountered with these boxes....they are my most horrid least favorite critter on earth....

One other thing that is making me crazy...is that a metal yellow Tonka dump truck or one of the newer plastic ones.....I know, dumb. But just want to know


----------



## lynnedit

First of all, Angela, you're funny.
Secondly, that is just a fantastic design and definitely benefits from your trying various styles. I agree about it being stickied.



Team Gomberg said:


> what purpose do the bricks around the box serve?


Protect the paint?


----------



## Tom

Cowboy_Ken said:


> Looks almost as great as me Tom. That's a fantastic design/thread and I think it should be stickied for future reference for those folks that just gotta have that cute little baby.
> Have you made a second one as a guest room for me yet?



Ha! You play your cards right and I might actually let you sleep in the spare bedroom in the house. And while you are here, I might be able to arrange a Zoo tour. I know a guy on the inside... 




Team Gomberg said:


> what purpose do the bricks around the box serve?



The ground is not level where the box sits. There are flat 2x4s on the bottom of the box to keep it a little off the ground. I wanted the box to sit level so I had to put a second flat 2x4 under the downhill side. This made a pretty big gap under that side and I didn't want any tortoises try to squeeze under the box. That's why there are only bricks on that side.




ascott said:


> Tom....so, I am going to sound really girlie and all here....but how many black widows have you encountered with these boxes....they are my most horrid least favorite critter on earth....
> 
> One other thing that is making me crazy...is that a metal yellow Tonka dump truck or one of the newer plastic ones.....I know, dumb. But just want to know



They are all over the place up here, but I can't recall ever finding one inside one of these boxes. I find an occasional daddy long legs spider inside, but no Black Widows.

The Tonka truck IS in fact a real live metal version from the mid 70's that I used to play with when I was just a little boy. Now my daughter plays with them, and she is just as rough on them as I ever was. You just don't see quality like that anymore, do ya?


----------



## goReptiles

I love the little dogs out by the house. This is a great design. I may have to try something like this out. How did you seal the wood before adding the insulation; what did you use?


----------



## Turtulas-Len

Looks Great, you know how I feel about insulation, you can never have to much of it. One thing that may make the heater work more efficient would be to drill some holes in the barrier surrounding it to allow for more air circulation through the heater from the bottom, just make sure the holes are small, so the tortoises can't get their heads stuck.


----------



## spikethebest

WOW! Looks like another great project designed, built, and implemented by Tom. Wish I was there to help build it. Can't wait to see it sometime!!


----------



## Tom

goReptiles said:


> I love the little dogs out by the house. This is a great design. I may have to try something like this out. How did you seal the wood before adding the insulation; what did you use?



I used plain silicone sealant around all the seams. When it dries it is totally inert and waterproof. The wood itself is just plain untreated plywood. I don't use any paint or sealer of any kind inside. The outside has primer and two coats of paint.




Len said:


> Looks Great, you know how I feel about insulation, you can never have to much of it. One thing that may make the heater work more efficient would be to drill some holes in the barrier surrounding it to allow for more air circulation through the heater from the bottom, just make sure the holes are small, so the tortoises can't get their heads stuck.



Not a bad idea. There is a small gap around the bottom, but I didn't want to leave too much space for hay or any other debris to work its way in there. Some quarter inch holes would probably fit the bill well.


----------



## AZtortMom

That's awesome!


----------



## Irwin4530

Right! Ill take 4!


----------



## Team Gomberg

ascott said:


> Tom....so, I am going to sound really girlie and all here....but how many black widows have you encountered with these boxes....they are my most horrid least favorite critter on earth....



you'd hate my area! 

we have a major black and brown widow problem. i've been killing them off every night when i lock the russian in his night box. 9 one night, 7 the next, etc... its awful!

i've never seen one inside my box either...


----------



## jjsull33

if I make a smaller version of this (2x2) for my Russians would it be alright to use heat cable? If so would it be better to attach it to the lid or the floor?


----------



## theelectraco

jjsull33 said:


> if I make a smaller version of this (2x2) for my Russians would it be alright to use heat cable? If so would it be better to attach it to the lid or the floor?



Heat should be on the floor.


----------



## jjsull33

theelectraco said:


> jjsull33 said:
> 
> 
> 
> if I make a smaller version of this (2x2) for my Russians would it be alright to use heat cable? If so would it be better to attach it to the lid or the floor?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Heat should be on the floor.
Click to expand...


should it be between the boards with the insulation, or right on the floor where they are?


----------



## theelectraco

If heat is going to be on the floor, there should be an unheated section the tortoise can go to I case it overheats or is too warm. I *think* it should be over the wood, in the insulation wouldn't heat the box very much, but I would see if anyone has a second opinion, and whether heat rope is even a good option.


----------



## lynnedit

I built a small wood hide for my Russians. There just wasn't a small enough Radiant heat panel for my size, and you don't use mats for small torts, as far as I understand.
I used heat cable, about 2 runs of cable around the sides and on about 1/3 of the floor. You can use duct tape or electric tape to hold the cable in place. I have a shingled, removable roof with a small plexiglass skylight (that may be overkill  ). 
I made a small notch along the top of a corner wall for the cable to exit. 
It goes into a small tupperware container (like Tom uses) to connect to the thermostat and this sits in a protected area outside the enclosure, (probe from thermostat goes back into the enclosure along a lower part of the wall). Of course, you could put the container inside as well, but mine doesn't have a lot of height.
Then you can use smaller gauge plastic or galvanized wire stapled over it to secure it. I did this because Russians are diggers and will mess ANYTHING up!
Then I put in some gravel over the heat cable area on the ground, which sort of embeds in the wire over the cable on the ground and secures it further.
I use 3-4 inches of aspen in my hide; drier but safe for torts. But I live in the PNW where it is moister spring and fall.
(dry in the summer, but they don't use it then, they sleep in hides outside in the soil).
I have been very happy with the set up, it maintains a nice steady background temp.


Waterproof heat cable, excellent product:
http://www.bigappleherp.com/Big-Apple-Flexible-Heat-Ropes

Some use the Hydor heat cable and I hear good reports as well.


Hope this is still 'on topic' enough!!!! :O


----------



## Tom

jjsull33 said:


> if I make a smaller version of this (2x2) for my Russians would it be alright to use heat cable? If so would it be better to attach it to the lid or the floor?



This question is outside my area of expertise. When I think about the things I DO know, I would not use heat cables for a Russian tortoises outside enclosure. I'd use a small heat mat that only covered part of the floor or I'd use a RHP like Lynnedit suggested.

Here in SoCal, my Russian boxes will have no heat, but that will be another thread...


----------



## jjsull33

Tom said:


> jjsull33 said:
> 
> 
> 
> if I make a smaller version of this (2x2) for my Russians would it be alright to use heat cable? If so would it be better to attach it to the lid or the floor?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This question is outside my area of expertise. When I think about the things I DO know, I would not use heat cables for a Russian tortoises outside enclosure. I'd use a small heat mat that only covered part of the floor or I'd use a RHP like Lynnedit suggested.
> 
> Here in SoCal, my Russian boxes will have no heat, but that will be another thread...
Click to expand...


I wish I didn't need a heated house, but while looking up average night temperatures in Denver for the summer I found that it averages in the high 50s at night even though the days are hot. So since I want to leave them outside all summer I will need to make one for them. (last summer they came inside at night, this year I want to fix up and redo the indoor enclosures so they have more room this winter, keeping them out of it will give me more time to finish without worrying about sealants and smells and the like)

I was going to put 4 doors on it as well, with a dividing wall inside so that it has 4 sections in case they need to be separate they will all still have a heated hide and I wont need 4 separate set ups. I will just have it be the central point of the enclosure.

By the way your design looks great, thanks for showing how you did it.


----------



## StudentoftheReptile

Tom, approximately what was the cost of this project, namely the wood materials and RHP? I'm looking to something large enough for 2-3 adult redfoots and then another for a single sulcata. What dimensions (especially for the sulcata) would you suggest?


----------



## SANDRA_MEISSNEST

Wow, where do u live that u have such problems, cant u spray somethings to kill rhe spiders... Poor little torts... U sould be also careful!

And tom, i love it, and im sure the torts love it the most! 

Sent from my ZTE N9120 using TortForum mobile app


----------



## lynnedit

jjsull33 said:


> if I make a smaller version of this (2x2) for my Russians would it be alright to use heat cable? If so would it be better to attach it to the lid or the floor?
> 
> I wish I didn't need a heated house, but while looking up average night temperatures in Denver for the summer I found that it averages in the high 50s at night even though the days are hot. So since I want to leave them outside all summer I will need to make one for them. (last summer they came inside at night, this year I want to fix up and redo the indoor enclosures so they have more room this winter, keeping them out of it will give me more time to finish without worrying about sealants and smells and the like)
> 
> I was going to put 4 doors on it as well, with a dividing wall inside so that it has 4 sections in case they need to be separate they will all still have a heated hide and I wont need 4 separate set ups. I will just have it be the central point of the enclosure.
> 
> By the way your design looks great, thanks for showing how you did it.



I have a small heated hide with heat cable in it, on a thermostat. It lines the sides and about 1/3 of the bottom. All sides are insulated, it is wood with a removable shingled roof with a small plexiglass 'skylight'. The cable is covered with hardware cloth stapled to the sides and over it on the bottom. On top of that I threw a thin layer of gravel, then aspen bedding. This works really well and is low cost to heat.
If your hide is larger, a mini oil filled radiator on a low protected shelf would work well too (or the hound heater).
All of the above refers to background heat, only needed at night if <50 and days are cooler, or during the day to bump temps up into the 60-70's to support the basking light.

All that said, if your temps only go down to 50 or above, you really don't need night heat, especially as they can bask in the warmer temps during the day. My torts are outside now 100%, and sleep in temps down to 50 w/o issue, because day temps are warm enough for them to bask and warm up. The hides and cold frames are really for Spring/Fall to extend the season, when temps are not as favorable, but they still benefit from being outside.


----------



## cemmons12

Very nice setup Tom! Wish I was good at building like you! But I am working on Coopers new "part time" enclosure now, just need to get a couple pieces of wood and a piece of plexi for the front and its finally done. Money has been the only hold up but I will get it sooner or later..


----------



## lynnedit

Yes, back to your new night box, Tom, it is fantastic!


----------



## ra94131

StudentoftheReptile said:


> Tom, approximately what was the cost of this project, namely the wood materials and RHP? I'm looking to something large enough for 2-3 adult redfoots and then another for a single sulcata. What dimensions (especially for the sulcata) would you suggest?



I am still trying to work out the best dimensions for my Sulcata as well; he'll be comfortable outside most of the year so I don't want over do it. And he's still much too small for me to properly visualize what size it needs to be down the line... if anyone has some insight, I'd love to hear it.

Also, Tom, do you do anything to aid in water runoff? We don't get frequent rain here, but when we do it can come down pretty hard...

I'm thinking I might do a hybrid of your design here and this insulated dog house step-by-step (http://www.ronhazelton.com/projects/how_to_build_a_custom_insulated_dog_house) that I found.

Hoping to get started soon.


----------



## Tom

I think 4x4 is a good size for a single sulcata.

For water protection, I raise the boxes up on skids. I use pressure treated 2x4s. The bottom of the box is another 2" tall, so that makes the floor of the enclosure 3.5" off the ground. I use doors that are hinged on the bottom, so by day they act as a ramp in and out of the box and by night its a door that I latch closed to keep them warm and safe.

If you think the water might get higher than that, you can use pressure treated 4x4s, or put it up on stilts.


----------



## ra94131

One more question Tom: how heavy was that? Or more to my point, how difficult to move?

I'm finalizing plans to build something similar, but approximately half the size.


----------



## Tom

I move the boxes with the lids off. Two men can carry this with no problem. I'm a medium sized guy and my helper was a 6' 135 pound guy. He and I carried the box about 150 feet, over a low wall and through a doorway with no problem. It probably weighs about 100 pounds without the lid, so a smaller one would weigh less. I reattach the lid once its in place.


----------



## Gtiger66

This looks great. I am thinking of ideas for my yard. This is inspiring.


----------



## Tom

I would love to see you improve upon it and share your work. I'm always looking for ways to make it even better.


----------



## Hallbomber

What is the brand/model of oil heater you used Tom??


----------



## Jtort

I want a box like this!


----------



## Team Gomberg

Tom, you mention that the insulation helps keep the hide cooler, too. 

Have any temperature examples? When it's 100F+ outside, what are the temps inside the box?

I "get" the thermostat turning on a heat source to maintain a minimum temperature but I'm not too sure I get how to keep it from getting too hot inside. Then again, I don't deal with insulation so maybe that's why. 

Sent from my TFOapp


----------



## Irish

You have great carpentry skills. It is built right, and built to last. Where did you find the mini heater?


----------



## Tom

Team Gomberg said:


> Tom, you mention that the insulation helps keep the hide cooler, too.
> 
> Have any temperature examples? When it's 100F+ outside, what are the temps inside the box?
> 
> I "get" the thermostat turning on a heat source to maintain a minimum temperature but I'm not too sure I get how to keep it from getting too hot inside. Then again, I don't deal with insulation so maybe that's why.
> 
> Sent from my TFOapp



My old boxes used to get up to 120 when outside temps were 100+. This never seemed to bother the tortoises. They came and went as they pleased. These new boxes never creep past the low 90s on our super hot days.




Irish said:


> You have great carpentry skills. It is built right, and built to last. Where did you find the mini heater?



Thanks man. I'm entirely self taught. Getting better, but still a lot left to learn.

Here are the two types I have. Got the one at Walmart and the other at HomeGoods. It says 500 watts on the description, but that is on high. I run them on low which uses only 200 watts on the one and 250 watts on the other. Because the boxes are so well insulated and sealed, the heaters only run for a short time each night even when the temps dip below freezing.

http://www.midlandhardware.com/115304.html#.UiOzWha1wy4

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...H-000A-00017&gclid=CJ7jn4eUq7kCFY9xQgodiEIAug


----------



## TFCO

Nice job!


----------



## Hallbomber

Whats the substrate type stuff inside??


----------



## sibi

Some of the best work I've seen in construction. Very polished and efficient. As you may know, I'm using a 12 x12 ' shed and converting it into the outdoor enclosure. I've ordered their heat blanket by Trane, and i will be posting pics as i start to install everything. The box for the heater is a good idea, and I'll steal the other guys idea of putting 1/4 holes on the sides of it. Since I'm no spring chicken and lack carpentry skills, i cheated and took the easy (more expensive) route. But, sure wish i had your skills. Beautiful work as always my friend.


----------



## Tom

Hallbomber said:


> Whats the substrate type stuff inside??



I like to use grass hay. Bermuda in this case. Its easy to rake out. They like to "burrow" into it, and they can eat it on those days that I take too long to get their food to them.


----------



## Hallbomber

Ok great thanks.


----------



## tortoise5643

Cool.


----------



## Team Gomberg

Tom said:


> Team Gomberg said:
> 
> 
> 
> Have any temperature examples? When it's 100F+ outside, what are the temps inside the box?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My old boxes used to get up to 120 when outside temps were 100+. This never seemed to bother the tortoises. They came and went as they pleased. These new boxes never creep past the low 90s on our super hot days.
Click to expand...


Great, thanks.

I'm planning on moving my largest leopard into the full yard next spring. I'm starting my plans for the heated hide and of course your box is my "role model" lol


----------



## Teodora'sDAD

Nicely done Tom.


----------



## OCTortoiseGuy

Tom - How humid does the open containers on the shelf make the box? How often are you having to file them with water? I think I will be adding a shelf to my tort house to hold water has soon as I get the time. Thank you Tom for the great build thread.


----------



## Tom

OCTortoiseGuy said:


> Tom - How humid does the open containers on the shelf make the box? How often are you having to file them with water? I think I will be adding a shelf to my tort house to hold water has soon as I get the time. Thank you Tom for the great build thread.



Those water tubs only get humidity up to around 40-50%. Maybe they will be able to do more in winter when its not so hot and dry.


----------



## Kapidolo Farms

Do you think it would help the humidity to use a small aquarium air pump with an air stone in the water? I've done that to both introduce fresh air and humidity into incubators. In that situation I was able to get 85% humidity while I lived in Fresno, similar in heat to your summer. The air would not be som much help with your box, but the humidity might go up substantially with an air stone?

Will


----------



## diamondbp

Man what a great build, Tom does it big!


----------



## Tom

Will said:


> Do you think it would help the humidity to use a small aquarium air pump with an air stone in the water? I've done that to both introduce fresh air and humidity into incubators. In that situation I was able to get 85% humidity while I lived in Fresno, similar in heat to your summer. The air would not be som much help with your box, but the humidity might go up substantially with an air stone?



That is a great suggestion. The only question is: Do I really WANT to raise humidity up much higher in this sort of box in the great outdoors. If ever the power failed on a cold winter night, it could be an issue. The wetter it is the more of an issue. I'm okay with only moderate humidity for the bigger sized tortoises that use the large boxes. In time that may change, but I think its okay for now.

What do you think Will? Should I be shooting for higher humidity in there?


----------



## Kapidolo Farms

Tom wrote "What do you think Will? Should I be shooting for higher humidity in there?"

I had not thought about power failure. The ideal, I think would be to match what your underground shelters have for there temps and RH. But those are for sulcata only? I think if you had a temp drop and high humidity, that water would condense on the interior, and so the RH would come down too. The question then is would that be too damp with a non-earth floor, like wood, that won't soak it up as much as soil would.

Do any of your leopards use any sort of below ground shelter similar to your sulcata? I think I recall the sulcata shelter had an earth floor, so then that would be the push of consideration in potential rapid changes in shelter microclimate.

All the 'at rest" leopards I have seen in captivity or the wild have their face into shrubbery, or are totally in tall grass. With evapotransportation of plants it would be like sleeping with your face into the pillow, real moist. When temps drop from real hot to cool, plants transpire more, but when cold, they shut that down. I don't know the stats on the temps and RH for this range of things where the wild leopards go.

Tom wrote "Those water tubs only get humidity up to around 40-50%. Maybe they will be able to do more in winter when its not so hot and dry."

So maybe this would only be a good practice when it is hot, and the heater is not activated, during those summer hot times. I guess where you live the night time temps might drop hard alot? If your night time stays above what you consider a safety temp, then it would be fine. On a timer for the morning hours on days that will hit 85F plus? 

These are fussy ideas, with low potential values, but may be worth considering.

Will


----------



## ashleym

At first I was wondering what the "water shelves" were for, and then once I saw you had little plastic containers with water in it that made sense! I don't know why I didn't think about this. We are currently building a big enclosure right now and should definitely incorporate that in there.


----------



## Masin

Wow! How amazing is that! Beautiful work. I'm a carpenter newb, I can only dream of making something a fraction as decent one day! Haha.


----------



## Tom

Will said:


> Do any of your leopards use any sort of below ground shelter similar to your sulcata? I think I recall the sulcata shelter had an earth floor, so then that would be the push of consideration in potential rapid changes in shelter microclimate.




The underground sulcata shelter started out with a dirt floor, but then Daisy started trying to take the direct route for some authentic Chinese food. I retrofitted a plywood floor into the bottom with much effort, consternation, and cussing. I intentionally left large gaps between the four retrofitted floor pieces, to allow for some "Earthiness" to take place in the box. It actually works very well. With just a simple bucket of water down there, the humidity hovers around 70-80%, all year long with electric heat in winter and no heat at all in summer. I find this to be an ideal way to house sulcatas. I have never seen anything anything I like better. I'm currently mentally designing something similar, but on a smaller scale and with no heat, for Russians. I think it would be ideal for DTs too.

I have never tried this with leopards on the ASSumption that it might be too "unnatural" since they are really not a burrowing species. Maybe I should give it a try and see what they do. Maybe they would take to it just fine. After all, an above ground, insulated wooden box with an oil heater isn't the least bit "natural" either. 

Thank you for sharing your thoughts Will.


----------



## Kapidolo Farms

It is my understanding from the 'scientific and popular literature' that even though leopards don't dig their own burrows they readily use ones they find dug by other animals. That big one from RSA in Addo is supposed to have died, by going into a burrow which subsequently collapsed. So maybe the burrow for them is more like squatter housing, they take it when they can get it. I think your night-house approximates that aspect of what wild leopards do. 

Pancakes do the same thing, use "found" burrows. Most tents do, as well as a huge variety of other tortoises. Will


----------



## Tom

Hmmm... Now the wheels are turnin'...


----------



## manetteaplin

Tom thanks for your wonderful box ideas, I just sent it to my dad to have him make me one! I do have a couple questions for everyone about winter idea for next year (I think I can get this winter out of my current set up) so next year my sully will be almost 3, I live in southern oregon so, hot summers (13 days over 100)  hot for us anyway. My question is, he will have a 35'x35' outside pen for the summer, but for the colder months how big of outside home will he need, and will he be big enough to go in and out on cold days on his own or will he need to be locked in all winter? (He is currently about 6")


----------



## Tom

PM KenS or Maggie3fan. They both live up closer to your neck of the woods, have sulcatas, and will be better able to advise you of the particulars. I don't have any experience housing tortoises in that sort of climate. Does it snow where you are? Whats the average temp range during winter up there?


----------



## manetteaplin

Thanks Tom! We rarely get snow but average high is 54 and average low is 34. I will send them a message and see what their advice would be!


----------



## Tom

manetteaplin said:


> Thanks Tom! We rarely get snow but average high is 54 and average low is 34. I will send them a message and see what their advice would be!



Sorry. I just know its colder up there and I don't want to tell you the wrong thing. Both of those guys are really nice and will be glad to help. Both are friends. We have other members up that way too, so don't hesitate to PM anyone else either, I just know those two personally.


----------



## TFCO

Hi Tom where did you buy that oil heater I'd like to get one for my enclosure I'm building instead of using the CHE.

Thanks


----------



## Tom

TFCO said:


> Hi Tom where did you buy that oil heater I'd like to get one for my enclosure I'm building instead of using the CHE.
> 
> Thanks



I got one at Bed, Bath and Beyond. It was on clearance since it was summer.  I ordered two from Walmart.com. Just do an internet search for "mini oil heater", and lots of them will come up.


----------



## Sulcata_Sandy

I've used one before, but how do they compare to electric heat as far as energy efficiency? I'm considering one for my bedroom for overnight. My 1970 house has CEILING HEAT!!!
Very stupid design, epically in NW Oregon!

BTW, me, two Basenjis and two tortoises sleep in the big master bedroom. So it's my priority to heat it comfortably for us all....and considering the African dogs, Sulcata, Hermanni...and ME who's always cold anyway (I'm teeny...115lbs)....I'd be happy if we all had a nice, toasty 85Â° all night and to not have a $400 electric bill. LOL


Sandy
Oregon Tortoise Rescue


----------



## lynnedit

Sandy, I am in SW Washington, and use a regular sized version in my insulated greenhouse where my Russians spend the winter.
I would advise a regular sized heater for a room sized area.
It is very efficient, I only need to use the 600W setting (rather than the 900W). I have never had to set it above 4, and usually at 1 or 2.


----------



## Sulcata_Sandy

THANKS!!


Sandy
Oregon Tortoise Rescue


----------



## Tom

SenjiSandy said:


> I've used one before, but how do they compare to electric heat as far as energy efficiency?




This will depend largely on how well insulated and drafty your house is, or isn't.


----------



## lynnedit

And by regular sized, I still mean the oil filled electric radiator.


----------



## theresal

I love this post! Hopefully, it will help my husband build one similar for my red foots.


----------



## tmbarta

Hi Tom,

I love your design and plan on replicating it in the next few months for my 2 year old sully. I'm going to be making it 4'w x 4'd x 2'h. I'm trying to decide how big to make the door. She's currently 6 1/2" wide and 4 1/2" high. I would like this night box to last for many years, so I know the door needs to be much bigger than that, but since she's my first sully, I have no idea how big I should make it. 

My thought was to make the door bigger, based on feedback I get here, then fill it in with 2x4s, that can be removed as she grows.

So any advice would be much appreciated 

Thanks!!

Tammie


----------



## Tom

I like your idea of closing the excess gap with removable 2x4s.

When I make a box for adult sulcatas, I make the door 26x16". One of those unusually giant males might need it a little bigger, but the vast majority of adult sulcatas will fit through a door that size.


----------



## Dizisdalife

I too like the idea of using removable 2x4's. A couple of years ago I built my first night box for my 2 year old sulcata. He was about 6" wide so I made the doorway 12" wide and 10" high. A year later I needed to widen the doorway. Luckily I had framed the door in such a way that it could be enlarged without too much trouble. Not that I had planned it that way at all. Even so, enlarging it to 15" wide only got me a few more months use out of that box. My new box, built using Tom's design (and his consultation) is 4' x 6' x 2' high. But that is the subject for another thread. Fun project.


----------



## tmbarta

Thanks Tom and Joe 

I'll post some pics when I get it done. I appreciate the input.





Tom said:


> I like your idea of closing the excess gap with removable 2x4s.
> 
> When I make a box for adult sulcatas, I make the door 26x16". One of those unusually giant males might need it a little bigger, but the vast majority of adult sulcatas will fit through a door that size.


----------



## Team Gomberg

Hey Tom,
Thanks for letting so many of us copy your box 

I did my best to make a smaller version of yours.... 
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/thread-83326.html


----------



## hunterk997

This gave me some great ideas for my russian's night box for next year. Thanks for sharing it with us.


----------



## Tom

hunterk997 said:


> This gave me some great ideas for my russian's night box for next year. Thanks for sharing it with us.



I too will be building some russian boxes soon. I will share what I come up with.


----------



## argus333

i have the same heater in my box but im having a hard time getting the fflor to heat, what temps are u getting at floor level. i have heater set on the 4? i have same set up as u. heater has 2x 12 around it.


----------



## Tom

argus333 said:


> i have the same heater in my box but im having a hard time getting the fflor to heat, what temps are u getting at floor level. i have heater set on the 4? i have same set up as u. heater has 2x 12 around it.



I have never checked the floor temp. I have my temp probe on one of the shelves.

I run my heater thermostat all the way up, but set the heater on the low setting, and then I plug it into a reptile thermostat like this one: http://www.tortoisesupply.com/zilla-temperature-controller-thermostat/ , and set the temp where I want it.


----------



## boris'mommy

Soooo freaking grateful for this thread!


----------



## Tom

boris said:


> Soooo freaking grateful for this thread!



Cool! You've got a year or so to get it all figured out.


----------



## boris'mommy

Tom said:


> boris said:
> 
> 
> 
> Soooo freaking grateful for this thread!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cool! You've got a year or so to get it all figured out.
Click to expand...


How long did it take you to put yours entirely together? And thanks again for the reply on my other post I really appreciate it, I can only hope to make you proud with my next enclosure!


----------



## Tom

Because of my erratic work schedule, I only work on these sort of projects sporadically. An hour here, two hours there, etc. Each of these boxes takes me about two weeks to finish, but probably only 12-14 hours total, including painting time.

For a single tortoise you can just make a 4x4' instead of a 4x8'.

Another tip: Make the door big enough for an adult so you won't have to make it again. I make my doors 26x16".


----------



## boris'mommy

Tom said:


> Because of my erratic work schedule, I only work on these sort of projects sporadically. An hour here, two hours there, etc. Each of these boxes takes me about two weeks to finish, but probably only 12-14 hours total, including painting time.
> 
> For a single tortoise you can just make a 4x4' instead of a 4x8'.
> 
> Another tip: Make the door big enough for an adult so you won't have to make it again. I make my doors 26x16".



Good to know thanks so much!


----------



## Tom

Another tip: When its time for him to move outside, leave him out until just after dark for a few nights to see where he wants to sleep. Then put your new tortoise box where the tortoise wants to be. Much easier than trying to make him go where you want him to be.


----------



## boris'mommy

Tom said:


> Another tip: When its time for him to move outside, leave him out until just after dark for a few nights to see where he wants to sleep. Then put your new tortoise box where the tortoise wants to be. Much easier than trying to make him go where you want him to be.



If it's okay with you I'll be coming to you specifically with all of my questions once he is big enough to be outside ( and even before )


----------



## Tom

Sure. I'm happy to share whatever I've learned.


----------



## argus333

great tom thanks im gonna get one of those this weekend.


----------



## Dizisdalife

When I built a new night box for my sulcata I knew that I would copy this design from Tom. He had shelves with water dishes to add humidity so I built one too. I must admit that I thought that it would not be of much use and the relative humidity would be low no matter what. That Tom is a smart guy. I don't have a working hygrometer (new one on order) but I can tell there is a measurable amount of humidity in the box. Here is what I get in the morning when the cool outside air hits the vinyl flaps:


----------



## bouaboua

Thank you so much for sharing this project. This is such good idea and I can copy some of your idea like the water tub in the night box.

Thanks.


----------



## featherator

Wow what a great tutorial for an outdoor enclosure! I'm using some of this in my design.


----------



## StudentoftheReptile

I just wanted to say that this design WORKS. Even here in southern Alabama, we have had some cold nights below 20'F. And my 4'x'4' box for my adult redfoots stays a nice 66-68'F. Definitely beats bringing big tortoises in every night.


----------



## boris'mommy

Those chunky little legs get me every time! [SMILING FACE WITH HEART-SHAPED EYES]


----------



## DeanS

Dizisdalife said:


> That Tom is a smart guy.



If you only knew the half of it!


----------



## Angi

I am so jealous  My mom and I made ours out of a plastic deck box. It works, but is not nearly as nice as yours. Great job!


----------



## Tom

I'm making another one too.


----------



## Dizisdalife

Tom said:


> I'm making another one too.



Now I am jealous. Will there be upgrades from your previous night box design?


----------



## Tom

I think just refinements and fewer mistakes during the build. I'm putting them flat on the ground now instead of up on skids for areas that don't flood. I think the ground will keep them warmer as opposed to lifting them and letting below freezing air under there.


----------



## wellington

Tom, just wondering, have you ever just sunk them into the ground, not completely buried like some of your others, and then dug out the ground I. Front of the opening, but digging it to be the ramp to go in? Then putting black roofing of some type on the top. Thinking being partially buried would help to keep them warmer. Just a thought.


----------



## Tom

wellington said:


> Tom, just wondering, have you ever just sunk them into the ground, not completely buried like some of your others, and then dug out the ground I. Front of the opening, but digging it to be the ramp to go in? Then putting black roofing of some type on the top. Thinking being partially buried would help to keep them warmer. Just a thought.



I've considered this. My problem with this is potential flooding. I have not been able to mentally work out a way to keep heavy rain from flowing down the hole. Any sort of shelter over the entrance hole would interfere with the lid. In my other underground buried boxes, I've used long tunnels for the entrances and built shelters over the holes, but these were far from the lids of the actual underground chambers. I've considered building up the dirt around the boxes, and I'm halfway trying that now on my leopard box. Frankly, my boxes are so well insulted and sealed that I don't think it matters whether they are above or below ground. I'm making smaller underground boxes for my Russian right now and I'm not sure how I'm going to deal with this. I think I might need to make a short tunnel and have it covered with dirt above ground, but away from the lid. I'll be making a thread on this with lots of pics.


----------



## wellington

Would sitting the box on a grate that's over the hole work for the flooding? Leaving just a small gap between the entrance and the ramp. Kinda like the pools in hotels. The grate they have running all around the pool for the water to go in, before spreading all over the floors. The water would run under the box before getting into the box? 
Can't wait too see your Russians box. Might have to build one for Toto and a leopard one for Tatum. Moving to bigger property and the shed we just built last year won't be making the move for a while, if at all. Need something quicker and cheaper for the time being, for the spring and fall colder nights. Winter will be in a basement for a while.


----------



## Jazzbell772

I am planning on building a 4x8' outdoor enclosure for the one hermann I have. Would a mini night box be wise? Not sure how I would put a heater in it though. I live in Louisiana so while most of the year is nicely heated, theres about 2 months that we can dip into 30's at night.


----------



## ironpython

I habe two of those heaters and wondering how they will stand up in the boxes humid environment.

Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk


----------



## Tom

ironpython said:


> I habe two of those heaters and wondering how they will stand up in the boxes humid environment.



Two of which heaters, and what humidity in what box are you referring to? My boxes don't get all that humid. I'm lucky to hit 50%.




Jazzbell772 said:


> I am planning on building a 4x8' outdoor enclosure for the one hermann I have. Would a mini night box be wise? Not sure how I would put a heater in it though. I live in Louisiana so while most of the year is nicely heated, theres about 2 months that we can dip into 30's at night.



First: I would go much bigger than 4x8 for an outdoor pen.

Second: A radiant heat panel set on a thermostat in a small night box should work great for you. Like this: http://www.reptilebasics.com/rbi-radiant-heat-panels If your box is insulated or buried, I'll bet the 40 watt will work well for you.

Here is how I use them in a 4x4 box: http://www.tortoiseforum.org/thread-86632.html
Since you are making a smaller box, probably 2x2' and the tort is a temperate species, you shouldn't need the heat mat underneath and you could set your thermostat to just 65 or so.


----------



## Jazzbell772

How big would you go for one Dalmatian hermann tortoise?


----------



## sibi

Tom, it had been mentioned before, but I would tell you what I did and then I would like your opinion on it please. With the oil heater, I created air flow without compromising on heat by using cement blocks turned on its side where the two holes face the inside and outside surroundings of the heater. In this way, heat is directed through the holes and into the bottom living space. With an oscillating fan pointed toward the floor, the warm air moves from top to bottom, and from inside the barrier out. The torts can't mess with it and they can't get burned. It transfers the heat that rises back down to the floor where it is needed. Temps on the floor are around 80-85 degrees continuously! Of course, the 10x 12' shed is their living space year round, and it does allow me to use cement blocks.


----------



## Jazzbell772

Jazzbell772 said:


> How big would you go for one Dalmatian hermann tortoise?



Oh and originally that was supposed to say 4ft x 10 ft. Unsure if that's still too small


----------



## Tom

Jazzbell772 said:


> How big would you go for one Dalmatian hermann tortoise?



As big as you can. 50x50' would not to be too large. You'd be able to plant all sorts of plants for eating and hiding.




sibi said:


> Tom, it had been mentioned before, but I would tell you what I did and then I would like your opinion on it please. With the oil heater, I created air flow without compromising on heat by using cement blocks turned on its side where the two holes face the inside and outside surroundings of the heater. In this way, heat is directed through the holes and into the bottom living space. With an oscillating fan pointed toward the floor, the warm air moves from top to bottom, and from inside the barrier out. The torts can't mess with it and they can't get burned. It transfers the heat that rises back down to the floor where it is needed. Temps on the floor are around 80-85 degrees continuously! Of course, the 10x 12' shed is their living space year round, and it does allow me to use cement blocks.



I've never tried to heat a shed that large. It sounds like its working for you, so rock on!

With Joe's help I recently put some small computer fans in my 4x8' boxes with the radiant oil heaters, and I like the results. Similar concept to your fan. It works well for my application too.


----------



## Jazzbell772

Haha! I hear ya! Unfortunately I've got golden retrievers that need the yard more than the tortoise.


----------



## Tom

Jazzbell772 said:


> Haha! I hear ya! Unfortunately I've got golden retrievers that need the yard more than the tortoise.



Another 5 or 10 feet in either direction is not going to matter to your dogs, but it will make a huge difference for your tortoise. They need room to roam.


----------



## Jazzbell772

Tom said:


> Jazzbell772 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Haha! I hear ya! Unfortunately I've got golden retrievers that need the yard more than the tortoise.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another 5 or 10 feet in either direction is not going to matter to your dogs, but it will make a huge difference for your tortoise. They need room to roam.
Click to expand...


I understand what you mean. I'll see what we can do. She's only 5 months old so still tiny. She will also get time to roam free in the yard supervised.


----------



## Tom

I think your original plan of 4x8 is great for such a small one. I use that size a lot for my babies. You can always expand as she grows.

I would not turn her loose in the yard outside of an enclosure. I've seen that end badly far to many times. Everyone has the best of intentions, but so many turtles and tortoises are lost that way.


----------



## Jazzbell772

I probably should've mentioned her size in the beginning. And thank you so much for the information. This has been so much easier from everything I have learned on just one forum.


----------



## Tom

Jazzbell772 said:


> I probably should've mentioned her size in the beginning. And thank you so much for the information. This has been so much easier from everything I have learned on just one forum.



Here is a thread on easy to make, but safe and secure enclosures for hatchlings. Maybe this will give you some ideas.
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/thread-30683.html


----------



## Timothy_tortoise

Love the box tom!! Will this be a good design for my sulcata? Will the oil heater do the job in cold winters? (Below freezing) or will I also need a heat mat? I have more questions but I will space them out for you... Lol thanks for any help!!


----------



## Tom

Timothy_tortoise said:


> Love the box tom!! Will this be a good design for my sulcata? Will the oil heater do the job in cold winters? (Below freezing) or will I also need a heat mat? I have more questions but I will space them out for you... Lol thanks for any help!!




I don't know where you are, but here we get below freezing nights throughout most of winter. Our days usually warm up quite nicely though. These boxes maintain their temps as pictured with temps in the mid 20'sF. Even on nights like that, our days typically warm up into the 60's or higher.

For single sulcata, something like this might be better:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/another-night-box-thread.88966/


----------



## Timothy_tortoise

Ok I should have been clearer... I'm in N.C. Our highs in winter sometimes are below freezing... What I'm thinking is building maybe a 10'x10'x4' enclosure with the same principle as your box... (With bigger heater of course) what I'm asking is how well it holds heat.. And about floor temps as in will I need a mat or does the heater do the job..


----------



## Tom

Well now you have gone outside the realm of my experience and expertise. We have a member named Len in Virginia who is adept at building stuff for your kind of climate. Try reaching him through the forum here. Other members from colder climates will hopefully chime in if they read this, but you might get more results by starting a new thread of your own in the enclosures section.

I would guess that in a climate like yours, with a shed that size, you would need substantially more and better insulation than what works here in sunny SoCal.

Wellington in Chicago and Maggie3fan in WA might also have some good tips for you as they are both doing something similar to what you propose.

Sorry if I'm leaving anyone else out. Please chime in and help Timothy_Tortoise.


----------



## bouaboua

Timothy_tortoise said:


> Ok I should have been clearer... I'm in N.C. Our highs in winter sometimes are below freezing... What I'm thinking is building maybe a 10'x10'x4' enclosure with the same principle as your box... (With bigger heater of course) what I'm asking is how well it holds heat.. And about floor temps as in will I need a mat or does the heater do the job..




Welcome and you are in a good hand (Tom's). Good to have you here. This is a great place to learn and share. So you got to share........


----------



## lighthiker2

I too am in NC, with a yearling. He spent the winter inside except for a few gorgeous days. He has a (approx) 16'x16' outdoor enclosure that he has spent a few days in last week. In the enclosure are numerous hides, plants, a pool and a greenhouse area. His summer night time house is a converted doghouse with hinged ramp/door. It worked great for his outside time last year also, with coco coir substrate and multiple clear vinyl doorflaps. As you know, Nc summers are ideal for our torts. 

I imagine I will keep in in at night as many winters as I can carry him...I am a bit of a worrywort momma. Then one of my sheds, converted, will be needed


----------



## Timothy_tortoise

That is basically my plans.. Outside during the summer inside during winter until his home is built... Just trying to figure out which part of the yard he gets... Having a problem with no part of my yard gets all day sun except out by the road...


----------



## lighthiker2

Pt 1:
I am considering converting the bottom third of my flying squirrel flight cage into a larger indoor enclosure for my juvenile during inclement weather. Anyone else ever done something like this?

Since FSs never use the lower third of their cages I could add a plexiglass "ceiling" for the tort level, plywood walls on the bottom third and put covered protective cages around the electrical fixtures. With plywood sides, coir substrate, hide, tile and che/basking light that would allow the right thermostatically / humidistat- controlled closed environment with an open feel.


----------



## lighthiker2

the cage is 4'x 6+ ft footprint. I could remove the avant garde tree thing and just use branches for the arboreal tenants. Thoughts?


----------



## Team Gomberg

Maybe you guys can chat about the squirrels in private messages 

Lets keep this informative thread on track 

Tom, how many of these night boxes do you have in use?


----------



## TommyZ

So, i went ahead and did my best. What do ya all think? Close?


----------



## Tom

Heather, Right now I'm using two 4x8' boxes and two 4x4' boxes.

TommyZ, How will you keep rain out with your lid like that?


----------



## TommyZ

Tom said:


> Heather, Right now I'm using two 4x8' boxes and two 4x4' boxes.
> 
> TommyZ, How will you keep rain out with your lid like that?



I have roof shingles im going to have hanging over the ledge. That, plus a plastic over hang.


----------



## Tom

TommyZ said:


> I have roof shingles im going to have hanging over the ledge. That, plus a plastic over hang.



That'll work. Show pics when you are done please. I'm always looking for ways to improve and I've considered the roofing shingles many times. I've opted not to do it that way to save weight, but please share your experience with it when you are all done. I might reconsider.


----------



## TommyZ

Tom said:


> That'll work. Show pics when you are done please. I'm always looking for ways to improve and I've considered the roofing shingles many times. I've opted not to do it that way to save weight, but please share your experience with it when you are all done. I might reconsider.




We get quite a bit of rain here in NJ. I was going to copy yours exactly, but my buddy that helped me suggested covering the top with shingles/plastic sheeting to keep the water off the wood totally. 

I did use treated wood though in case we have some wetness and i need to adjust.


----------



## Team Gomberg

Doesn't the roof have to be angled for the roof shingles to be effective?

I have shingled 4 un heated tort houses but I always had the roof angled back so water would run off the overlapping shingles.


----------



## prettysure

Hey Tom, sorry if this is a dumb question, but how exactly did you get the roof to hang over like that? That part is somehow not making sense to me.
Any chance you have a lumber list from this project?


----------



## TommyZ

I just made mine, i opted for shingles on the roof instead of an over hang. Im thinking though Toms design is better, but im ok being the beta test. Ill have pics in a week. As for s lumber list: one 3/4" plywood for floor, two 1/2" plywood pieces for sides, one 1/2" plywood for lid, and 11 pieces 8' 2x4 for beams..... not too bad, all in all i paid less then 150$ for all materials. Treated wood too.


----------



## TommyZ

Team Gomberg said:


> Doesn't the roof have to be angled for the roof shingles to be effective?
> 
> I have shingled 4 un heated tort houses but I always had the roof angled back so water would run off the overlapping shingles.




Yep, I plan to just shim the back so it pitches slightly so it runs down snd off. This is all experimental for me though, so well see.


----------



## Dizisdalife

prettysure said:


> Hey Tom, sorry if this is a dumb question, but how exactly did you get the roof to hang over like that? That part is somehow not making sense to me.
> Any chance you have a lumber list from this project?



I built a box using Tom's design. Works great, by the way. The top is a full-size sheet of plywood, a 48"x96" sheet. The actual box is is smaller so that the top, or lid, fits over it. Mine measures about 44" wide x 92" long. You could make it a little more snug than I did. The first piece that I built were the top and the bottom so that I was sure that everything built up from the bottom, or base, would fit under that top.


----------



## Team Gomberg

I built 2 boxes like this. My lid fit perfectly on top of the box, so I added a 2x4 around the lid to keep rain out. It works perfectly.


----------



## TommyZ

Team Gomberg said:


> I built 2 boxes like this. My lid fit perfectly on top of the box, so I added a 2x4 around the lid to keep rain out. It works perfectly.




You mind throwing a pic or two up for reference? Thanks


----------



## Team Gomberg

sure...
The 2'x2' box lid before the 2x4 frame...






With the 2x4 frame, unpainted, caulk filling the gap between the lid and 2x4...





Painted but before the door lock...





The 4'x2' box with the 2x4 already added to the lid.. I don't have any photos of the lid alone..





This box is also caulked and painted...





The underside of the lid. The lid itself is fully insulated, caulked and sits on weather stripping where it meets the walls. The 2x4 _purely_ serves a cosmetic/rain protection purpose...





Hope this helps...

(I had to use tinypic...TFO kept giving me an error when I tried to upload the photos directly)


----------



## TommyZ

Team Gomberg said:


> sure...
> The 2'x2' box lid before the 2x4 frame...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the 2x4 frame, unpainted, caulk filling the gap between the lid and 2x4...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Painted but before the door lock...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The 4'x2' box with the 2x4 already added to the lid.. I don't have any photos of the lid alone..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This box is also caulked and painted...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The underside of the lid. The lid itself is fully insulated, caulked and sits on weather stripping where it meets the walls. The 2x4 _purely_ serves a cosmetic/rain protection purpose...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hope this helps...
> 
> (I had to use tinypic...TFO kept giving me an error when I tried to upload the photos directly)




^5 Thanks a bunch that does indeed help. For the sake of it ill play guinea pig and try the shingles thing and well reconvene in a few weeks and see what we all think. Im leaning towards yours (and Toms) lid, but well see. Thanks again


----------



## Team Gomberg

Even my shingled roofs over lap the walls by 2-3" on each side. 



> For the sake of it ill play guinea pig


Perfect  We all need to do this from time to time. It really helps.

I've been playing guinea pig with increasing the humidity in these houses. I added vinyl flooring (for moisture protection) and coco coir substrate to keep humidity in the high 60s-high 70s range. So far so good but it'll take time before I see results.


----------



## TommyZ

Here is some updated pics of the (almost) finished box. I say almost finished because I have not been able to run power out to it yet, damn building code. 

I opted to water seal the box as opposed to painting it as i figured itll be less likely to chip. However, im rethinking that decision. 

Im still in experiment mode,but so far so good.


----------



## TommyZ

Aparently the torts LOVE the box, because they wont come out now! All winter theyre stuck inside, so they decide its best to hide out inside.. *smh*


----------



## Team Gomberg

@TommyZ would you put together a thread with the building steps of your tort house? It'd be great to have another thread out there for people to refer to


----------



## TommyZ

Team Gomberg said:


> @TommyZ would you put together a thread with the building steps of your tort house? It'd be great to have another thread out there for people to refer to




Would be my pleasure. Although, im no carpenter, so be fore warned.


----------



## Hallbomber

Build me one please. I'll pay.


----------



## Hallbomber

Although I'm doing well with insulated dog house that contains a heat pad and a radiant heat panel it is tough to clean easily.


----------



## Jtort

Do you guys treat the bottom with anything special (primer, etc)? 

And do you sit it directly on the dirt or do you lift it a bit with something?

Thanks in advance!


----------



## Jtort

Jtort said:


> Do you guys treat the bottom with anything special (primer, etc)?
> 
> And do you sit it directly on the dirt or do you lift it a bit with something?
> 
> Thanks in advance!


 

Oops nevermind. I just re-read the post and my questions were answered


----------



## Team Gomberg

Jtort said:


> Do you guys treat the bottom with anything special (primer, etc)?
> 
> And do you sit it directly on the dirt or do you lift it a bit with something?
> 
> Thanks in advance!



Tom leaves his bottom bare, so I did too. I used hay substrate which kept it dry and easy to clean. Urine did soak into the wood but no problems came from it..

Now, when I decided to create more humid conditions inside the box, I switched to coco coir substrate. I didn't want constantly damp coir on the wood. I was afraid it would mold. So, I bought a few vinyl floor tiles, covered the bottom and lined the bottom 6" of each wall, too.
I caulked the tiles and corners and am glad I did! The coir sits on the vinyl and I've had no issues. My humidity inside the box averages 70%. It goes as low as 60% when the heater clicks on and as high as 80% when water is freshly added.

If you want a damp substrate in the box, I'd protect the wood 

My box sits on 2x4s as "legs". The 2x4 runs down the middle and along the side edges. I've had the box sit on concrete and on dirt. When I moved it from the dirt I discovered a massive ant colony under it. I had no clue it was there. I prefer it on the concrete.
You could sit the box on your beautiful patio under the covering and they'd still have access to the yard


----------



## Jtort

Team Gomberg said:


> If you want a damp substrate in the box, I'd protect the wood
> 
> My box sits on 2x4s as "legs". The 2x4 runs down the middle and along the side edges. I've had the box sit on concrete and on dirt. When I moved it from the dirt I discovered a massive ant colony under it. I had no clue it was there. I prefer it on the concrete.
> You could sit the box on your beautiful patio under the covering and they'd still have access to the yard



Thanks Heather! I think placing it under the patio might be the best option since there's an electrical outlet there too. I'm scared to run an extension cord to the side and don't want to have to pay an electrician to add an outlet over there.

As for the bottom, I looked on craigslist and found some vinyl tiles about 5 miles away for $5! I was so excited lol. It's way more than I'll need but for $5 I figure I can keep them in the garage for whenever I need more.  <- my face when I got the vinyl tiles


----------



## Team Gomberg

@Jtort Hey, if you like the pattern, go for it! $5 is a great price for a large batch of it. 

Just FYI for anyone curious, I bought the vinyl tiles new at Home Depot for less than $1 each. It's fairly cheap if you don't need many


----------



## tortdad

Tom. 

Can you post a few more pics of the inside? I'm trying to see how you've framed up the oil heater space. Specifically of you have lumber between the the heater and the tort. If not how do you keep it from burning your tort? 

I also love the idea of the shade table that doubles as an plant tray. I'm not very creative at all but I can build just about anything. 

Another thing, do you close the door to the night box every day or just the winter months. I live in Houston and just adopted a adult from Kelly and want to make sure I'm doing his house correctly.


----------



## Robertchrisroph

This is from toms plans. Lo. Mygrandson Avery is checking it out


----------



## poshpoodle

Tom, you are certainly the Tortoise king, whisperer...whatever you want to call it! I am trying to do right by my tortoises. We are currently building a cinder block heated tortoise house for our sulcatas. However, I need to build something for my red foots. I have 15 ranging in size from about 4" to adults. I would like to build a box under my deck for them but have no idea what size I should have it. Also, with that many should I have cubby holes or something of the sort so that they can have barriers to get away from one another if need be? Since I am new to the tortoise world and very much learning, do you keep the door open in the winter or lock it up? I am in GA. Also, I have been wondering where you buy large bails of hay that have not been fertilized. Everything around here has been fertilized but I am not sure where I would buy a lot of hay that has not been. Any info or help is very much appreciated. My husband will build me the house. Also, for the sulcatas her was going to put lights in it. I suppose that is not necessary but I like the idea of building a shorter house so there is not as much to heat. So excited! Also, when it is winter do you still feed every day? Do you just leave lots of hay for them to eat? Any recommendations on books for me to buy to help me with more info on sulcatas and red foots? several of my red foots have pyramiding I am assuming humidity was not right where they were. I would like to get it right! Thank you again for sharing all of your knowledge!


----------



## Tom

tortdad said:


> Tom.
> 
> Can you post a few more pics of the inside? I'm trying to see how you've framed up the oil heater space. Specifically of you have lumber between the the heater and the tort. If not how do you keep it from burning your tort?
> 
> I also love the idea of the shade table that doubles as an plant tray. I'm not very creative at all but I can build just about anything.
> 
> Another thing, do you close the door to the night box every day or just the winter months. I live in Houston and just adopted a adult from Kelly and want to make sure I'm doing his house correctly.



I make a wall of 2x12 around the heater with about 3" of clearance all around. Then I drill a bunch of hole in the wall for ventilation.

I make sure all my tortoises are in every night and close their doors. I then open their door every morning. We have wild temperature swings here. Last night it got down to 54, but the high will be mid 90's today. Closing the doors protects them both from cold night temps and any nocturnal predators.


----------



## Tom

poshpoodle said:


> Tom, you are certainly the Tortoise king, whisperer...whatever you want to call it! I am trying to do right by my tortoises. We are currently building a cinder block heated tortoise house for our sulcatas. However, I need to build something for my red foots. I have 15 ranging in size from about 4" to adults. I would like to build a box under my deck for them but have no idea what size I should have it. Also, with that many should I have cubby holes or something of the sort so that they can have barriers to get away from one another if need be? Since I am new to the tortoise world and very much learning, do you keep the door open in the winter or lock it up? I am in GA. Also, I have been wondering where you buy large bails of hay that have not been fertilized. Everything around here has been fertilized but I am not sure where I would buy a lot of hay that has not been. Any info or help is very much appreciated. My husband will build me the house. Also, for the sulcatas her was going to put lights in it. I suppose that is not necessary but I like the idea of building a shorter house so there is not as much to heat. So excited! Also, when it is winter do you still feed every day? Do you just leave lots of hay for them to eat? Any recommendations on books for me to buy to help me with more info on sulcatas and red foots? several of my red foots have pyramiding I am assuming humidity was not right where they were. I would like to get it right! Thank you again for sharing all of your knowledge!




Make sure you line the inside of the cinder blocks with plywood or something. Its much too abrasive on their shells and legs over time. Cinderblocks don't insulate as well as plywood and rigid foam, so watch your winter temps closely and expect to burn some electricity.

I don't know red foots all that well and I've never housed large numbers like you. It might be better to build several 4x4 boxes, or maybe one long 4x16' box. The problem with going over 8' long is the seam in the ceiling. If your husband has the building skills to close and waterproof a seam, then you could make it work. Maybe two 4x8' boxes under the deck?

Fertilized hay is fine. Plants cannot grow without fertilizer. Some just get it from the soil they are in, but if the soil is too nutrient poor to support the growth, then fertilizer must be added from one source or another. This is not a bad thing necessarily. The plants assimilate the nutrients, be they man made chemicals or natural composted nutrients, into their tissues and all is good. You don't want your tortoise eating raw fertilizer, but every plant they eat is fertilized in some way or other. So I wouldn't worry about buying regular hay from the feed store. That's what I've been using for many years, and so has every tortoise keeper I know, with no issues.


----------



## carlos b

Well this is awesome.. I want to come up with something for outside as well.. It's a little late in the season but this is impressive


----------



## candace

Tom said:


> After much thought about what worked and what I wanted to improve over previous attempts, here is the latest version with a step by step pictorial on how I did it. It is time for my 2010 South African herd to move outside. They are moving into a 16x20' completely closed in enclosure. The enclosure is a wooden frame enclosed top to bottom with welded wire. It has a wire roof and the wire extends 18" down into the ground. The actual night box is 4x8x2'. I found a mini oil-filled heater to heat it with. The heater is on a thermostat and will be set to 80 for about half of the year and 70 over the warmer months.
> 
> Here is the lid. You can see the insulation in place.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is the plywood cover going over the insulation in the lid. The lid fits on top of the box and is hinged. There will be weatherstripping all around the top and the lip on the lid keeps the rain out of the box. You can see a finished lid for a second box in the background.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is the bottom. Notice the door notch and how that will fit in later.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Insulation in the bottom. All the insulation is 1.5" thick and has the shiny mylar foil side pointing to the outside. Don't know if that matters much, but thats how I did it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Insulation on the floor all covered up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here the front and back are attached. Notice the door taking shape. Since 9 animals will initially share this, and as they get older they will get bigger, I went kinda big with the door at 26x16". This way one of them won't be able to sit in the doorway and block all the others in or out, and later, when they reach adult size, they will easily fit in and out of this door.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another view of the front with the sides going up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here the side wall insulation is in place and about to be covered up. This box is also double caulked to keep out any cold drafts on those below freezing winter nights. The only air movement will be from the door, or when I open the lid.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All buttoned up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here goes the front insulation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The front insulation is all covered up here. The 2x4 blocks there will support a 2x10" water tub holding shelf. Having containers of water inside will keep the humidity up in the night box, and act as a bit of a heat sink. This technique has been working very well in my underground sulcata night box.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's a top view showing the area where the heater will live, the weather stripping in place, the door flaps, and the 2x4 in the back that the lid hinges attach to.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is the front with paint and door flaps and water shelves in place.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is the door. I will carve out the dirt where the door/ramp hits the ground so it sits flush. One "weak" spot of previous designs was the simple plywood door. I went to great time and trouble to super insulate my night boxes, but then just used thin plywood to cover the door holes. This time the door shares the same 1.5" insulation as the rest of the box. Door open:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Door Closed:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here you can see the heater installed, the metal heat shield above it, the water tubs for humidity on the shelves, and my purple shoe box that holds all my electrical stuff.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here are some of the babies enjoying their bermuda grass bedding.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is a wide view showing some of the enclosure. The empty wooden box in the lower right foreground of the pic is their 4x8' shade table/planter box. I will be filling it and planting leopard tortoise food in their in the next few days.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One more view of the same thing from the other side.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well that's it. Tell me what you think.


I am wanting to build one of these I am having a hard time understanding how you attached the walls to the bottom. Please help me to understand.


----------



## Tom

Its all 2x4s and plywood. I attach a 2x4 to the bottom and I attach the sides to the 2x4. Its all tied in together at the end and very sturdy. Looks at these and see if you can see it better here:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/another-effective-night-box.86632/
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/another-night-box-thread.88966/

Please come back and ask for more help if you need it. No one is born knowing this stuff, and I'm happy to help you figure it out. If need be we can talk on the phone.


----------



## stojanovski92113

Tom said:


> After much thought about what worked and what I wanted to improve over previous attempts, here is the latest version with a step by step pictorial on how I did it. It is time for my 2010 South African herd to move outside. They are moving into a 16x20' completely closed in enclosure. The enclosure is a wooden frame enclosed top to bottom with welded wire. It has a wire roof and the wire extends 18" down into the ground. The actual night box is 4x8x2'. I found a mini oil-filled heater to heat it with. The heater is on a thermostat and will be set to 80 for about half of the year and 70 over the warmer months.
> 
> Here is the lid. You can see the insulation in place.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is the plywood cover going over the insulation in the lid. The lid fits on top of the box and is hinged. There will be weatherstripping all around the top and the lip on the lid keeps the rain out of the box. You can see a finished lid for a second box in the background.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is the bottom. Notice the door notch and how that will fit in later.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Insulation in the bottom. All the insulation is 1.5" thick and has the shiny mylar foil side pointing to the outside. Don't know if that matters much, but thats how I did it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Insulation on the floor all covered up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here the front and back are attached. Notice the door taking shape. Since 9 animals will initially share this, and as they get older they will get bigger, I went kinda big with the door at 26x16". This way one of them won't be able to sit in the doorway and block all the others in or out, and later, when they reach adult size, they will easily fit in and out of this door.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another view of the front with the sides going up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here the side wall insulation is in place and about to be covered up. This box is also double caulked to keep out any cold drafts on those below freezing winter nights. The only air movement will be from the door, or when I open the lid.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All buttoned up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here goes the front insulation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The front insulation is all covered up here. The 2x4 blocks there will support a 2x10" water tub holding shelf. Having containers of water inside will keep the humidity up in the night box, and act as a bit of a heat sink. This technique has been working very well in my underground sulcata night box.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's a top view showing the area where the heater will live, the weather stripping in place, the door flaps, and the 2x4 in the back that the lid hinges attach to.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is the front with paint and door flaps and water shelves in place.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is the door. I will carve out the dirt where the door/ramp hits the ground so it sits flush. One "weak" spot of previous designs was the simple plywood door. I went to great time and trouble to super insulate my night boxes, but then just used thin plywood to cover the door holes. This time the door shares the same 1.5" insulation as the rest of the box. Door open:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Door Closed:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here you can see the heater installed, the metal heat shield above it, the water tubs for humidity on the shelves, and my purple shoe box that holds all my electrical stuff.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here are some of the babies enjoying their bermuda grass bedding.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is a wide view showing some of the enclosure. The empty wooden box in the lower right foreground of the pic is their 4x8' shade table/planter box. I will be filling it and planting leopard tortoise food in their in the next few days.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One more view of the same thing from the other side.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well that's it. Tell me what you think.


Can I send you money & you build one for me LOL!! That's perfect!! Insulation, can't beat that! You can see it very well thought out! Great job!


----------



## Tom

stojanovski92113 said:


> Can I send you money & you build one for me LOL!! That's perfect!! Insulation, can't beat that! You can see it very well thought out! Great job!



If I thought I could earn a living at it, I would love to build tortoise boxes all day long every day.

Unfortunately, I gotta work...

But at least my "work" is fun.


----------



## Jtort

candace said:


> I am wanting to build one of these I am having a hard time understanding how you attached the walls to the bottom. Please help me to understand.



My husband and I just built a 4x4 box like this. It's pretty much done except for the inside compartment to place the heater (waiting on the heater to get the dimensions). 

It was our first time building anything and we made a few mistakes but made it work. I will try to post a thread tonight with pictures and point out our mistakes so first timers like us can avoid them.


----------



## aztortoisegal

That's very impressive, I'll show this to my husband, see if he can put together a box like this for my little guy before the cool winter sets in.


----------



## Robertchrisroph

this is the heater i bought for Toms night box. its 6 inches wide 18 inches long and 15 inches high, could not find the ones tom was talking about. this is from Amazon. it has low using 500 watts or med 700 and high at 12 or 1500 watts. like 65.00 dollars


----------



## Tom

That looks like it will work. Make sure to run it on your own separate thermostat and don't rely on the one built in to the unit. Only use it on low. Watch your temps closely.


----------



## Robertchrisroph

Thank you for watching over me and king.


----------



## thegame2388

Sorry to revive this thread...I really love the hide box, but how do you attach the overhead light/CHE when/if you open the roof to remove poop and all that?

In this case, wouldn't attaching them to the side be better? I want to follow your steps!


----------



## G-stars

thegame2388 said:


> Sorry to revive this thread...I really love the hide box, but how do you attach the overhead light/CHE when/if you open the roof to remove poop and all that?
> 
> In this case, wouldn't attaching them to the side be better? I want to follow your steps!




I don't think he uses CHEs for these. I think he uses an oil filled heater as it works much better to heat up that large of an area.


----------



## thegame2388

G-stars said:


> I don't think he uses CHEs for these. I think he uses an oil filled heater as it works much better to heat up that large of an area.



Nice! But either way, how does one use heat lamps or UVB lamps and attach to the ceiling if it's constantly being opened and closed? Maybe only half the root "opens".


----------



## Team Gomberg

thegame2388 said:


> Nice! But either way, how does one use heat lamps or UVB lamps and attach to the ceiling if it's constantly being opened and closed? Maybe only half the root "opens".


I know you asked this on my thread too... I did not attach anything to the roof. My heater is on the floor and there are no lights needed. This isn't an outside enclosure for full time living. It's a night box for torts that live in the yard/large pens.

Tom has attached heat panels to the ceiling but as long as your cord has enough slack, the lid should open fine


----------



## mrpomerenke

Hi Tom!

Your night box is AMAZING and I plan on building one following your design for my 4 year old Sulcata tomorrow. I had a couple quick questions for you if you don't mind?

1. Looks like your lid is bigger all the way around than the rest of the box; You must have cut the floor plywood sheet about 2' all the way around? Do I have that correct?

2. How tall would you suggest I build his box? He's probably a foot high now and growing! I was thinking between 3 or 4 feet tall?

3. And, is that 1/2" plywood?

Thank you soooo much for helping out a total newbie (by the way, I live in Phoenix, AZ if it matters regarding your advise)

Cheers

Christopher



Tom said:


> After much thought about what worked and what I wanted to improve over previous attempts, here is the latest version with a step by step pictorial on how I did it. It is time for my 2010 South African herd to move outside. They are moving into a 16x20' completely closed in enclosure. The enclosure is a wooden frame enclosed top to bottom with welded wire. It has a wire roof and the wire extends 18" down into the ground. The actual night box is 4x8x2'. I found a mini oil-filled heater to heat it with. The heater is on a thermostat and will be set to 80 for about half of the year and 70 over the warmer months.
> 
> Here is the lid. You can see the insulation in place.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is the plywood cover going over the insulation in the lid. The lid fits on top of the box and is hinged. There will be weatherstripping all around the top and the lip on the lid keeps the rain out of the box. You can see a finished lid for a second box in the background.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is the bottom. Notice the door notch and how that will fit in later.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Insulation in the bottom. All the insulation is 1.5" thick and has the shiny mylar foil side pointing to the outside. Don't know if that matters much, but thats how I did it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Insulation on the floor all covered up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here the front and back are attached. Notice the door taking shape. Since 9 animals will initially share this, and as they get older they will get bigger, I went kinda big with the door at 26x16". This way one of them won't be able to sit in the doorway and block all the others in or out, and later, when they reach adult size, they will easily fit in and out of this door.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another view of the front with the sides going up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here the side wall insulation is in place and about to be covered up. This box is also double caulked to keep out any cold drafts on those below freezing winter nights. The only air movement will be from the door, or when I open the lid.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All buttoned up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here goes the front insulation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The front insulation is all covered up here. The 2x4 blocks there will support a 2x10" water tub holding shelf. Having containers of water inside will keep the humidity up in the night box, and act as a bit of a heat sink. This technique has been working very well in my underground sulcata night box.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's a top view showing the area where the heater will live, the weather stripping in place, the door flaps, and the 2x4 in the back that the lid hinges attach to.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is the front with paint and door flaps and water shelves in place.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is the door. I will carve out the dirt where the door/ramp hits the ground so it sits flush. One "weak" spot of previous designs was the simple plywood door. I went to great time and trouble to super insulate my night boxes, but then just used thin plywood to cover the door holes. This time the door shares the same 1.5" insulation as the rest of the box. Door open:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Door Closed:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here you can see the heater installed, the metal heat shield above it, the water tubs for humidity on the shelves, and my purple shoe box that holds all my electrical stuff.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here are some of the babies enjoying their bermuda grass bedding.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is a wide view showing some of the enclosure. The empty wooden box in the lower right foreground of the pic is their 4x8' shade table/planter box. I will be filling it and planting leopard tortoise food in their in the next few days.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One more view of the same thing from the other side.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well that's it. Tell me what you think.


----------



## Tom

Hi Christopher. Welcome to the forum and thanks for the compliments.

To your questions:
1. The lids on my boxes start with either a full 48x96" sheet of plywood or a 48x48". Then I put the 2x4 lip around the outer edge. The rest of the box must fit inside this with a little room to spare for opening and closing the lid. Since 2x4s are 1.5" I have to cut the inside portion down by 3" for that, and I take off an additional inch to give me a half inch of clearance on each side, and front and back, for opening and closing the lid. So the outside length and width of the actual box the tortoise lives in is 44x44" under a 48x48" lid. Because of the wall thickness, the inside length and width ends up being close to 40x40" for the tortoise. With a 26x16" door opening, this design will work well for all but the true behemoth sulcatas. Any sulcata that is around 100 pounds will fit just fine in this size.
2. No more than 24". Even a really large sulcata will not have a shell height more than 14-15". Making a 36-48" tall box just means you are heating a bunch of dead air space for no reason. Plus the radiant heat panels won't work well from that high up. I made a 16" tall box and that works very well for smaller tortoises, but 24" in the right height for adult sulcatas in my experience. Any taller and its a waste of lumber and space.
3. They stopped calling it "1/2 inch" plywood long ago. If I recall correctly this is 11/32 ply. The insulation does the work, so I use thin plywood to keep the weight and costs down. It works well for me. Temps were in the 30's here last night and all my tort boxes are in the low 80's and nice and toasty.


----------



## mrpomerenke

Thank you sooo much Tom for all the wisdom! 

I had another question: Does it matter where i put the door opening? I've noticed people have taken your design and moved the door all the way to the left or all the way to the right. Does it make much of a difference?
(My night box will be 4x8x2 and housing one male 4 year old Sulcata)

Thanks again Tom!

Christopher



Tom said:


> Hi Christopher. Welcome to the forum and thanks for the compliments.
> 
> To your questions:
> 1. The lids on my boxes start with either a full 48x96" sheet of plywood or a 48x48". Then I put the 2x4 lip around the outer edge. The rest of the box must fit inside this with a little room to spare for opening and closing the lid. Since 2x4s are 1.5" I have to cut the inside portion down by 3" for that, and I take off an additional inch to give me a half inch of clearance on each side, and front and back, for opening and closing the lid. So the outside length and width of the actual box the tortoise lives in is 44x44" under a 48x48" lid. Because of the wall thickness, the inside length and width ends up being close to 40x40" for the tortoise. With a 26x16" door opening, this design will work well for all but the true behemoth sulcatas. Any sulcata that is around 100 pounds will fit just fine in this size.
> 2. No more than 24". Even a really large sulcata will not have a shell height more than 14-15". Making a 36-48" tall box just means you are heating a bunch of dead air space for no reason. Plus the radiant heat panels won't work well from that high up. I made a 16" tall box and that works very well for smaller tortoises, but 24" in the right height for adult sulcatas in my experience. Any taller and its a waste of lumber and space.
> 3. They stopped calling it "1/2 inch" plywood long ago. If I recall correctly this is 11/32 ply. The insulation does the work, so I use thin plywood to keep the weight and costs down. It works well for me. Temps were in the 30's here last night and all my tort boxes are in the low 80's and nice and toasty.


----------



## Tom

mrpomerenke said:


> Thank you sooo much Tom for all the wisdom!
> 
> I had another question: Does it matter where i put the door opening? I've noticed people have taken your design and moved the door all the way to the left or all the way to the right. Does it make much of a difference?
> (My night box will be 4x8x2 and housing one male 4 year old Sulcata)
> 
> Thanks again Tom!
> 
> Christopher



I put my doors in different places depending on the application, the number of tortoises the box is being made for and where the box will sit. I think in most cases it is best to make the door over to one side or the other.

THere is no harm in making a 4x8' box for a single sulcata, but a 4x4' will work just fine.


----------



## mrpomerenke

Hi Tom! Thanks again for all your help!

I'm happy to announce that I'm almost done with our "Fort Tort" and should be completing it this afternoon (will post pics soon).

My question was, where do you think I could find the clear plastic "flap-curtain's" for the doorway?

I put a call in to a refrigeration place here in Phoenix but it sounds like they need to order it but I was hoping to install it today.

Thanks again Tom!

Christopher



Tom said:


> I put my doors in different places depending on the application, the number of tortoises the box is being made for and where the box will sit. I think in most cases it is best to make the door over to one side or the other.
> 
> THere is no harm in making a 4x8' box for a single sulcata, but a 4x4' will work just fine.


----------



## Tom

mrpomerenke said:


> Hi Tom! Thanks again for all your help!
> 
> I'm happy to announce that I'm almost done with our "Fort Tort" and should be completing it this afternoon (will post pics soon).
> 
> My question was, where do you think I could find the clear plastic "flap-curtain's" for the doorway?
> 
> I put a call in to a refrigeration place here in Phoenix but it sounds like they need to order it but I was hoping to install it today.
> 
> Thanks again Tom!
> 
> Christopher



I don't know where to get that material. It is the door flap material used in commercial freezers. I got mine in a 100' roll from a friend here on the forum who ordered it online originally.

Your box should work just fine with out it. You will just lose a little more heat out the doorway during the day when the door is open.


----------



## Yvonne G

Do some online shopping for "vinyl strip door" or go to any fabric store. They sell it too. But if you buy it online, don't get the stuff that is made to withstand many minus zero degrees. It's a bit too thick for the tortoise to maneuver through easily.


----------



## prettysure

Tom, are you still insulating the hinged roofs on all of your boxes? I wasn't able to clearly tell from pictures on other threads.


----------



## Tom

prettysure said:


> Tom, are you still insulating the hinged roofs on all of your boxes? I wasn't able to clearly tell from pictures on other threads.



Yes. This is an important step. The bottom should be insulated too.


----------



## ksanchez

Tom said:


> After much thought about what worked and what I wanted to improve over previous attempts, here is the latest version with a step by step pictorial on how I did it. It is time for my 2010 South African herd to move outside. They are moving into a 16x20' completely closed in enclosure. The enclosure is a wooden frame enclosed top to bottom with welded wire. It has a wire roof and the wire extends 18" down into the ground. The actual night box is 4x8x2'. I found a mini oil-filled heater to heat it with. The heater is on a thermostat and will be set to 80 for about half of the year and 70 over the warmer months.
> 
> Here is the lid. You can see the insulation in place.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is the plywood cover going over the insulation in the lid. The lid fits on top of the box and is hinged. There will be weatherstripping all around the top and the lip on the lid keeps the rain out of the box. You can see a finished lid for a second box in the background.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is the bottom. Notice the door notch and how that will fit in later.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Insulation in the bottom. All the insulation is 1.5" thick and has the shiny mylar foil side pointing to the outside. Don't know if that matters much, but thats how I did it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Insulation on the floor all covered up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here the front and back are attached. Notice the door taking shape. Since 9 animals will initially share this, and as they get older they will get bigger, I went kinda big with the door at 26x16". This way one of them won't be able to sit in the doorway and block all the others in or out, and later, when they reach adult size, they will easily fit in and out of this door.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another view of the front with the sides going up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here the side wall insulation is in place and about to be covered up. This box is also double caulked to keep out any cold drafts on those below freezing winter nights. The only air movement will be from the door, or when I open the lid.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All buttoned up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here goes the front insulation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The front insulation is all covered up here. The 2x4 blocks there will support a 2x10" water tub holding shelf. Having containers of water inside will keep the humidity up in the night box, and act as a bit of a heat sink. This technique has been working very well in my underground sulcata night box.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's a top view showing the area where the heater will live, the weather stripping in place, the door flaps, and the 2x4 in the back that the lid hinges attach to.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is the front with paint and door flaps and water shelves in place.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is the door. I will carve out the dirt where the door/ramp hits the ground so it sits flush. One "weak" spot of previous designs was the simple plywood door. I went to great time and trouble to super insulate my night boxes, but then just used thin plywood to cover the door holes. This time the door shares the same 1.5" insulation as the rest of the box. Door open:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Door Closed:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here you can see the heater installed, the metal heat shield above it, the water tubs for humidity on the shelves, and my purple shoe box that holds all my electrical stuff.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here are some of the babies enjoying their bermuda grass bedding.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is a wide view showing some of the enclosure. The empty wooden box in the lower right foreground of the pic is their 4x8' shade table/planter box. I will be filling it and planting leopard tortoise food in their in the next few days.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One more view of the same thing from the other side.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well that's it. Tell me what you think.




@Tom it looks great. I love it. Thank you for sharing.

I did something simmular, with a box my father and I built, but it doesn't have a heater in. It also has insulation inside all the walls, ceiling, and floor. It is temporally housing my sulcata. He will eventually get a bigger box, probably without a floor so he can dig in the dirt, the the one he is in will then be used for my redfoots/cherryheads. I should post some pictures on day.


----------



## Tom

ksanchez said:


> @Tom it looks great. I love it. Thank you for sharing.
> 
> I did something simmular, with a box my father and I built, but it doesn't have a heater in. It also has insulation inside all the walls, ceiling, and floor. It is temporally housing my sulcata. He will eventually get a bigger box, probably without a floor so he can dig in the dirt, the the one he is in will then be used for my redfoots/cherryheads. I should post some pictures on day.



How are you keeping it warm with no heater?

I tried a dirt floor once. Its hard to keep it warm in the winter and they dig to China. I would suggest you keep using a solid, well insulated floor.

Pics would be great.


----------



## ksanchez

Tom said:


> How are you keeping it warm with no heater?
> 
> I tried a dirt floor once. Its hard to keep it warm in the winter and they dig to China. I would suggest you keep using a solid, well insulated floor.
> 
> Pics would be great.



@Tom I don't have a heater like you used but a heat bulb (CHE). I do not like how the door came out in our first design so I will make the second one different. My sulcata is only about 13 inches now and I live in the Southern Ca (Inland Empire area), but if it does get really cold like last week I bring him inside. I know I can't do this forever so the next house will need either two bulbs or a heater. I also have pictures of how we built it. I will try to get them posted soon.
What I've learned from Dave and Maree in Ojai when we went out to meet them was its better not to have floors in sulcata's houses because they do LOVE to poop and pee in their to help keep the humidity up. Here is a link to their website. http://ojaisulcataproject.org/index.html
They are amazing people.
Right now he does scratch the floor a little but not much.


----------



## Tom

I know Dave and am happy to call him a friend. Dave and I have some different ideas about how to keep sulcatas, and that is our main topic of discussion on the phone or when we meet. Dave subscribes to a lot of "old school" ideas. Some of those old ideas are great and serve our tortoises well, but new knowledge has been gained and a lot of trial and many errors, have shown me what works best. One of Dave's ideas is that sulcatas can tolerate cold temperatures. Well, he is right. They can. They can survive cold temperatures in some cases. My argument to him is: Are cold temps _GOOD_ for them? Would they experience cold temps like what he subjects his tortoises to deep down in their warm humid burrows in the hottest parts of Africa? I say no to both questions. Here is what I tell Dave: I have done it the old way. I did it that way for nearly 20 years. Raised dozens of them that way. I know what it does, and what the results will be. Dave, on the other hand has never done it _MY _way, and has no idea what the results are from that. Over the past few years he has been slowly coming around to my way of thinking about some of these things, but who knows how far he will go. Anyhow, I really like the guy, and respect his goals and intentions with sulcatas, even if he and I don't agree on some points.

About your heating strategy: CHEs can work in some cases, but here is my problem with them: They concentrate the heat all in one small spot. If the fixture is high enough and the tortoise small enough, like yours, they can work. But over the years I have seen so many cases of carapace damage on large tortoise from over head heat lamps and CHEs, that its sickening. There is a better way, and it took me many years of trial and error and experimentation to find it. You and your tortoise don't have to go through all of that.

Here is an example of the damage I'm talking about:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/open-topped-pyramided-scute.19691/

Here is my underground night box that started with a dirt floor. Go to post #25 on page 2 to see why I say not to use a dirt floor in your night house:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/daisys-new-enclosure.28662/

Here is the "better way" that I talked about earlier. These panels do basically the same thing as a CHE, but spread the heat out over a much greater area. This is one of my boxes for a single big sulcata.
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/another-night-box-thread.88966/


----------



## Dizisdalife

Maybe I have been lucky, but my sulcata doesn't pee or poop in his night box. Honestly, in the 500 or so nights that he has lived in this box he may have peed or pooped in there 5 times. The night box is built very much like Tom's design including the water dishes to add humidity. Maybe with the added humidity he hasn't had that instinctual urge to add his on "humidity". The box is 4'x6'x2' high and my sulcata is 20" scl weighing 50-55 pounds. I don't like CHE's for heat in these boxes because they seem to be too close to a larger tortoise's shell causing hot spots and drying. A mini oil filled radiators or radiated heating panels are more gentle on the shell and seem to provide more stable temperature levels.


----------



## ksanchez

Thank you @Tom and @Dizisdalife .
@Tom I just read and looked at each of the links you posted and you make a great point. I would not mind using (trying a Radiant Heat Panel).
Where would you suggest I look for one? I just looked on Amazon and Ebay for a few minutes.

My biggest struggle is just how big should I make his box? I will not get another sulcata. So it just needs to be big enough for him. I will work on posting pictures of mine I have 10-15. I am a little new to tortoise form.


----------



## Yvonne G

You want to make it just big enough that he has room to get away from the heat source in case it fails. The smaller it is the cheaper to keep it warm. And all they do in the night box is sleep, so it doesn't have to be big enough for exercise.

And my sulcata covers the floor of his night box with poop every night. Not much pee, only occasionally, but poop? Oh my!


----------



## ksanchez

OK I have my pictures ready. How do I post them and be able to write information above them? I don't know how to do that like @Tom did.


----------



## ksanchez

I FIGURED IT OUT! Thanks


----------



## ksanchez

@Tom and @Dizisdalife I just posted a lot of pictures 
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/insulated-tortoise-box.109755/


----------



## Tom

ksanchez said:


> Thank you @Tom and @Dizisdalife .
> @Tom I just read and looked at each of the links you posted and you make a great point. I would not mind using (trying a Radiant Heat Panel).
> Where would you suggest I look for one? I just looked on Amazon and Ebay for a few minutes.
> 
> My biggest struggle is just how big should I make his box? I will not get another sulcata. So it just needs to be big enough for him. I will work on posting pictures of mine I have 10-15. I am a little new to tortoise form.



I get my RHPs from these guys: http://www.reptilebasics.com/80-watt-radiant-heat-panel
Excellent service and excellent products.

I make mine 4x4'. Actually I make the box just small enough to fit inside a 48x48" lid to keep out rain. They end up being around 40x40" inside which is plenty big enough for a single sulcata. Then I use the RHP and the Kane heat mat over on one side. This way they can get off the heat, but still be inside the warm box.


----------



## ksanchez

Thank you so much @Tom. 

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR ALL YOUR TIME AND HELP. 
Both my sulcata and I appreciate your help.


----------



## Team Gomberg

Tom, I just noticed the small notch at the top of the side wall for the electrical cord. I didn't include this on mine and now that temps are really cold here, the moisture collects at that area and I'm worried the wood is going to mold, warp etc.. not to mention the small amount of heat and moisture escaping (it maintains temps but still)

So, my question is, can I cut that notch in now? Is that a good idea? What tool should I use?


----------



## Tom

Team Gomberg said:


> Tom, I just noticed the small notch at the top of the side wall for the electrical cord. I didn't include this on mine and now that temps are really cold here, the moisture collects at that area and I'm worried the wood is going to mold, warp etc.. not to mention the small amount of heat and moisture escaping (it maintains temps but still)
> 
> So, my question is, can I cut that notch in now? Is that a good idea? What tool should I use?



That notch never comes out right. I use a drill bit and then a hammer and chisel or Dremmel with a sanding drum. Tried a jig saw once too. I have not found a clean way to make that notch.


----------



## Team Gomberg

Hmm.. ok. I'll try a drill bit to start and see how it goes. Thanks!


----------



## mike taylor

You can set a skill saw at about a 1/2 " and make three or four passes . This will make the notch smooth . Or you can use a router with a dato bit .


----------



## mike taylor

Here is a picture of a router .


----------



## Tom

mike taylor said:


> You can set a skill saw at about a 1/2 " and make three or four passes . This will make the notch smooth.



Now THAT is a good tip. Never thought of that one. I will give it a try on my next box. I've got some round files that I could smooth out the cuts with too.

Thanks!


----------



## mike taylor

Your welcome . The least I can do . I know wood working .


----------



## Tom

mike taylor said:


> Your welcome . The least I can do . I know wood working .



I am all self taught and still have A LOT to learn. To say that I've been learning the hard way would be an understatement. No one to teach me and no one to do it for me, so I've just done it myself and figured things out along the way.

I appreciate any and all construction tips.

I'm building a couple of large indoor enclosures right now for some growing experiments this spring. I love building and get such a thrill from it, but man I wish I knew more... By the time I learn enough to be competent, I will be dying of old age...


----------



## mike taylor

I hear you . I guess I was lucky to have a handyman grandpa . My pops has cerebral palsy on his right side so I became the handyman in our house . If you need ideas hit me up .


----------



## Yaksha

I'm attempting one of these right now and have a question. In Picture #6, you can see the interior frame around the door. How did you attach the 2x4 there? The only way I can think of would be to go from the bottom, but that means the screw has to go all the way through the plywood at the bottom, through the 2x4 and into the other 2x4. Is this just done with long 5 inch screws, or something else?


----------



## Valentine's Mom

Hi!!!!

I love the design of this house! I am looking at building one starting on Friday. Wanted to check with you first to see if you have made any changes to this design or heater setup? My tort is 100lbs. Going to build a 4x4x2. Also thinking about adding a outside insulated box to house the heater. Any thoughts?


----------



## Tobi2008

The bermuda grass bedding....did you buy that or grow it yourself?


----------



## Tom

Yaksha said:


> I'm attempting one of these right now and have a question. In Picture #6, you can see the interior frame around the door. How did you attach the 2x4 there? The only way I can think of would be to go from the bottom, but that means the screw has to go all the way through the plywood at the bottom, through the 2x4 and into the other 2x4. Is this just done with long 5 inch screws, or something else?



Look at the earlier pics of the bottom. There is just one long 2x4 all the way along the front, and I cut a notch out of it for the door.


----------



## Tom

Valentine's Mom said:


> Hi!!!!
> 
> I love the design of this house! I am looking at building one starting on Friday. Wanted to check with you first to see if you have made any changes to this design or heater setup? My tort is 100lbs. Going to build a 4x4x2. Also thinking about adding a outside insulated box to house the heater. Any thoughts?



I prefer this design for a single large sulcata:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/another-night-box-thread.88966/


----------



## Tom

Tobi2008 said:


> The bermuda grass bedding....did you buy that or grow it yourself?



That is just bermuda hay from the local feed store. It comes in big bales for feeding horses. I've since switched to orchard grass hay and like it better.


----------



## Tobi2008

Tom said:


> That is just bermuda hay from the local feed store. It comes in big bales for feeding horses. I've since switched to orchard grass hay and like it better.


Great, thank you!


----------



## John84

Would this size box be fine in north california during the colder night for a full grown Sulcata?


----------



## Tom

John84 said:


> Would this size box be fine in north california during the colder night for a full grown Sulcata?



I think so. I think a 4x4 might be even better for a single adult. Like this:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/another-night-box-thread.88966/

We get down into the 20's at night in winter here sometimes and these boxes hold 80 degrees F, no problem. Insulation everywhere and silicone sealant is key.


----------



## John84

Tom said:


> I think so. I think a 4x4 might be even better for a single adult. Like this:
> http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/another-night-box-thread.88966/
> 
> We get down into the 20's at night in winter here sometimes and these boxes hold 80 degrees F, no problem. Insulation everywhere and silicone sealant is key.


Thank you! You have always been very helpful!


----------



## Kristen and cirby

My sulcata had some breakdown on her lower she'll from sweat as my vet said. I have her heat pad off now and am afraid to use it. I want to mount it in the new box but don't want more shell problems. What do you think?


----------



## Robertchrisroph

@Kristen and cirby yes that will work. Do you have a thermostat on it? Allso will a oil filled heater fit?


----------



## Kristen and cirby

I just finished a KILLER night box for her. I got a oil radiant heater and sheltered her from it. Also I made a cubby hole to slide her heat pad so she can't sit directly on it. I have a thermostat for both.


----------



## Robertchrisroph

I finished that part yesterday to. Lol


----------



## Ellan

Tom said:


> I get my RHPs from these guys: http://www.reptilebasics.com/80-watt-radiant-heat-panel
> Excellent service and excellent products.
> 
> I make mine 4x4'. Actually I make the box just small enough to fit inside a 48x48" lid to keep out rain. They end up being around 40x40" inside which is plenty big enough for a single sulcata. Then I use the RHP and the Kane heat mat over on one side. This way they can get off the heat, but still be inside the warm box.


----------



## Ellan

Tom - thanks for all the great design tips for a tortoise night box. I'm ready to tackle the project and still have a few questions.
_
I'm planning a 4 x 4 x 2 - Single Tortoise House for large male sulcata (19” wide by about 25” long, 13 years old)

Questions:_

_What type of plywood do you use? At home depot I found sheathing, pine, underlayment, and pressure treated._

_Do you use the same type of plywood on the exterior as you do the interior?_

_Plywood – is it ¼ ½ or ¾ inch?_

_What do you recommend to use for the heat shield above the heater?_

_What’s the preferred method of heating? _


_Please confirm:_

_Insulation – 1.5” thick_

_Doorway – 26” x 16”_

_Heater wall - 2 x 12 with 3” clearance all round. Small gap at the bottom or ¼ inch holes._

_Plain silicone sealant on all seams_

_Use pressure treated 2 x 4s

Thank you again for your help._


----------



## Tom

Ellan said:


> Tom - thanks for all the great design tips for a tortoise night box. I'm ready to tackle the project and still have a few questions.
> _
> I'm planning a 4 x 4 x 2 - Single Tortoise House for large male sulcata (19” wide by about 25” long, 13 years old)
> 
> Questions:_
> 
> _What type of plywood do you use? At home depot I found sheathing, pine, underlayment, and pressure treated._
> 
> _Do you use the same type of plywood on the exterior as you do the interior?_
> 
> _Plywood – is it ¼ ½ or ¾ inch?_
> 
> _What do you recommend to use for the heat shield above the heater?_
> 
> _What’s the preferred method of heating?_



I use regular plywood inside and out. If I recall it is 11/32. Fairly thin as the insulation works well. I only prime and paint the outside. Inside stay completely untreated.

They sell small sections of pre-cut sheet metal at HD for about $6. This is what I use for a heat sheik over oil-filled radiant heaters. I don't thin you need this for a smaller box with different heaters.

My preferred method of heating this size box is a 18x28" Kane heat mat on the floor, and an 80 watt 21" Radiant heat panel over head, all controlled by a single thermostat. See it here: http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/another-night-box-thread.88966/


----------



## Tom

Ellan said:


> _Please confirm:_
> 
> _Insulation – 1.5” thick_
> 
> _Doorway – 26” x 16”_
> 
> _Heater wall - 2 x 12 with 3” clearance all round. Small gap at the bottom or ¼ inch holes._
> 
> _Plain silicone sealant on all seams_
> 
> _Use pressure treated 2 x 4s_



All is correct except the pressure treated 2x4. I use regular 2x2s, 2x3s and 2x4s for framing. I don't use any pressure treated lumber for these boxes.

You also won't need a heater wall or heat shield if you use a heat mat and RHP.


I'm happy to help here, so keep asking all the questions you think of. My technique and design for these boxes has evolved tremendously over the years. I actually just finished another one and its the best yet. I'll be doing a thread on it soon, but I'm short on time.


----------



## Ellan

Tom said:


> I use regular plywood inside and out. If I recall it is 11/32. Fairly thin as the insulation works well. I only prime and paint the outside. Inside stay completely untreated.
> 
> They sell small sections of pre-cut sheet metal at HD for about $6. This is what I use for a heat sheik over oil-filled radiant heaters. I don't thin you need this for a smaller box with different heaters.
> 
> My preferred method of heating this size box is a 18x28" Kane heat mat on the floor, and an 80 watt 21" Radiant heat panel over head, all controlled by a single thermostat. See it here: http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/another-night-box-thread.88966/


----------



## DevilDog5mom7

Tom said:


> After much thought about what worked and what I wanted to improve over previous attempts, here is the latest version with a step by step pictorial on how I did it. It is time for my 2010 South African herd to move outside. They are moving into a 16x20' completely closed in enclosure. The enclosure is a wooden frame enclosed top to bottom with welded wire. It has a wire roof and the wire extends 18" down into the ground. The actual night box is 4x8x2'. I found a mini oil-filled heater to heat it with. The heater is on a thermostat and will be set to 80 for about half of the year and 70 over the warmer months.
> 
> Here is the lid. You can see the insulation in place.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is the plywood cover going over the insulation in the lid. The lid fits on top of the box and is hinged. There will be weatherstripping all around the top and the lip on the lid keeps the rain out of the box. You can see a finished lid for a second box in the background.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is the bottom. Notice the door notch and how that will fit in later.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Insulation in the bottom. All the insulation is 1.5" thick and has the shiny mylar foil side pointing to the outside. Don't know if that matters much, but thats how I did it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Insulation on the floor all covered up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here the front and back are attached. Notice the door taking shape. Since 9 animals will initially share this, and as they get older they will get bigger, I went kinda big with the door at 26x16". This way one of them won't be able to sit in the doorway and block all the others in or out, and later, when they reach adult size, they will easily fit in and out of this door.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another view of the front with the sides going up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here the side wall insulation is in place and about to be covered up. This box is also double caulked to keep out any cold drafts on those below freezing winter nights. The only air movement will be from the door, or when I open the lid.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All buttoned up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here goes the front insulation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The front insulation is all covered up here. The 2x4 blocks there will support a 2x10" water tub holding shelf. Having containers of water inside will keep the humidity up in the night box, and act as a bit of a heat sink. This technique has been working very well in my underground sulcata night box.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's a top view showing the area where the heater will live, the weather stripping in place, the door flaps, and the 2x4 in the back that the lid hinges attach to.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is the front with paint and door flaps and water shelves in place.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is the door. I will carve out the dirt where the door/ramp hits the ground so it sits flush. One "weak" spot of previous designs was the simple plywood door. I went to great time and trouble to super insulate my night boxes, but then just used thin plywood to cover the door holes. This time the door shares the same 1.5" insulation as the rest of the box. Door open:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Door Closed:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here you can see the heater installed, the metal heat shield above it, the water tubs for humidity on the shelves, and my purple shoe box that holds all my electrical stuff.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here are some of the babies enjoying their bermuda grass bedding.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is a wide view showing some of the enclosure. The empty wooden box in the lower right foreground of the pic is their 4x8' shade table/planter box. I will be filling it and planting leopard tortoise food in their in the next few days.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One more view of the same thing from the other side.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well that's it. Tell me what you think.


.
I am amazed. I am the woman taking care of Elvis in AZ. OMG I am stunned by your craftsmanship and attention to detail. The entire enclosure is perfect. Grass, cactus, and a beautiful green home. If I didn't know for sure that Elvis will be adopted I would hire someone to build such a nice home for Elvis. Thank you so much for sharing.


----------



## Gillian M

Robertchrisroph said:


> I finished that part yesterday to. Lol
> View attachment 144016


That looks *great*!  Lucky tort! But.....what of power bills?


----------



## Tom

Gillian Moore said:


> That looks *great*!  Lucky tort! But.....what of power bills?



When these boxes are made right with silicone sealant, insulation, and weather stripping, they use very little electricity. Even with our high CA energy rates, my boxes were only burning and average of .18 cents a day over winter.


----------



## dozers butler

Tom great thread, question. where do you source the oil heater . Thanks


----------



## Tom

dozers butler said:


> Tom great thread, question. where do you source the oil heater . Thanks


 I have found them a few places, but lately:
http://www.walmart.com/ip/Optimus-700W-Mini-Portable-Heater-with-Oil-Filled-Radiator/37948255


----------



## dozers butler

awesome , one other bother, the thickness of the plywood you use ? thanks again man


----------



## Tom

dozers butler said:


> awesome , one other bother, the thickness of the plywood you use ? thanks again man



I used to use 1/2", but that was really heavy. Lately I've been using 11/32 because its cheaper and lighter weight. The 1.5" insulation does its job well, so the plywood is really just a shell anyway.


----------



## dozers butler

1/2 inch yikes that was definatly a 5 man job for a 4x8 box. 11/32 well within my spending limits thanks a ton man.


----------



## Tom

dozers butler said:


> 1/2 inch yikes that was definatly a 5 man job for a 4x8 box. 11/32 well within my spending limits thanks a ton man.



Especially when you consider its TWO layers of 1/2" all the way around!

I actually carry them with the lids off, and re-install the lids once the box is in place. Doing it this way can make it a one man, three woman job…


----------



## Lorielei2001

Very nice!


----------



## brokerheather

Question on the heater... I have a basking light currently in my temp setup. My girl is 170ish pounds. I'm building a 4x7'ish enclosure. Is the heater going to save me money, just regulate better or is there a benefit basically to using it over the basking light that I currently have? I just bought a thermostat to keep it regulated, but haven't installed it yet.


----------



## Tom

I honesty don't know which one will cost more to run. My 4x8 boxes with the radiant oil heaters cost and average of .18 cents a day to run over our winters which are generally much colder than yours, while our electric rates are much higher. They burn more power while on, but in a well insulated box they are on a lot less than a bulb.

I can tell you that bulbs are not safe or effective for heating large tortoises. They tend to "slow burn" the top of the carapace while not warming the core or bottom of the tortoise enough.

Now in other news... We need a thread with lots of pics and info on a 170 pound female. I would love to know more about your giant girl.


----------



## brokerheather

Ok, that was the info I wanted... not the safest way to go! Ok, I will start a new thread on Mathilda the Mighty now-


----------



## brokerheather

http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/mathilda-the-mighty-170-pounds-of-lovin-and-her-story.136360/  Adding more pics shortly to this thread...


----------



## Cheryl Hills

Nice box. Would something like that work for Russians or should I just dig or burrows?


----------



## LRTortoises

I am in Arkansas with two large adult leopards 15 inch female and 16 inch male. Wondering if I build this for the upcoming winter if they can stay inside at night and come out for the days that get over 60. Or do people leave leopards locked inside these during the days also.


----------



## Team Gomberg

LRTortoises said:


> I am in Arkansas with two large adult leopards 15 inch female and 16 inch male. Wondering if I build this for the upcoming winter if they can stay inside at night and come out for the days that get over 60. Or do people leave leopards locked inside these during the days also.



Here in Oregon I leave my leopard outside all year long with a heated house just like this one.
I lock the door at night and open it everyday. He'll come out for a quick cruise even when it's cold, then head back in.
Sometimes on rainy days he'll poke his head out and decide to stay in. On those days I give him "breakfast in bed" and put a pile of food inside the house.

I'm unhappy with small size of my house so I'd recommend going big. Especially for 2. Do the 4x8 size and you'll be glad you did.


----------



## LRTortoises

Team Gomberg said:


> Here in Oregon I leave my leopard outside all year long with a heated house just like this one.
> I lock the door at night and open it everyday. He'll come out for a quick cruise even when it's cold, then head back in.
> .



So in Oregon I am guessing you get some snowy days and so he just stays inside then. We will have a week here each year where the ground is snow and ice.


----------



## Cowboy_Ken

In the lowlands of Oregon, 800'-1000' for me, we get an occasional snow on the ground event, every two years or so. Mine stay in their heated box unless really motivated, but then I don't feed them during this time. If they want some, they'll come out and get it. I may spunk it up with tasty broad leaf for them, but if it's only a day or two, I don't worry about them.

maybe this was a good enough lap and it's time to head back in?


----------



## Bogie=babyDINO

Cowboy_Ken said:


> In the lowlands of Oregon, 800'-1000' for me, we get an occasional snow on the ground event, every two years or so. Mine stay in their heated box unless really motivated, but then I don't feed them during this time. If they want some, they'll come out and get it. I may spunk it up with tasty broad leaf for them, but if it's only a day or two, I don't worry about them.
> View attachment 168516
> maybe this was a good enough lap and it's time to head back in?


That's such an odd picture to me, a tort in the snow! It's not bad for them right? Do they like it? I've seen other post pictures like this and I can't understand it. I imagine it would feel like us laying down in the snow naked! Haha I would be miserable! I wonder if it's uncomfortable to them. Thoughts?


----------



## Cowboy_Ken

Bogie=babyDINO said:


> It's not bad for them right? Do they like it? I've seen other post pictures like this and I can't understand it. I imagine it would feel like us laying down in the snow naked! I wonder if it's uncomfortable to them. Thoughts?


Bad for them? Well, without the heated house right behind him, I can't see it being good for them. He put himself in this position, did 1 lap, and headed back in. I was there in the event the return to the heated house didn't take place. 
Do they like it? I can't see them enjoying it verses toasty warm goodness. I'm with you. I, too, imagine being in the snow naked and it's not a pleasant thought.


----------



## amcgath04

Tom said:


> After much thought about what worked and what I wanted to improve over previous attempts, here is the latest version with a step by step pictorial on how I did it. It is time for my 2010 South African herd to move outside. They are moving into a 16x20' completely closed in enclosure. The enclosure is a wooden frame enclosed top to bottom with welded wire. It has a wire roof and the wire extends 18" down into the ground. The actual night box is 4x8x2'. I found a mini oil-filled heater to heat it with. The heater is on a thermostat and will be set to 80 for about half of the year and 70 over the warmer months.
> 
> Here is the lid. You can see the insulation in place.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is the plywood cover going over the insulation in the lid. The lid fits on top of the box and is hinged. There will be weatherstripping all around the top and the lip on the lid keeps the rain out of the box. You can see a finished lid for a second box in the background.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is the bottom. Notice the door notch and how that will fit in later.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Insulation in the bottom. All the insulation is 1.5" thick and has the shiny mylar foil side pointing to the outside. Don't know if that matters much, but thats how I did it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Insulation on the floor all covered up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here the front and back are attached. Notice the door taking shape. Since 9 animals will initially share this, and as they get older they will get bigger, I went kinda big with the door at 26x16". This way one of them won't be able to sit in the doorway and block all the others in or out, and later, when they reach adult size, they will easily fit in and out of this door.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another view of the front with the sides going up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here the side wall insulation is in place and about to be covered up. This box is also double caulked to keep out any cold drafts on those below freezing winter nights. The only air movement will be from the door, or when I open the lid.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All buttoned up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here goes the front insulation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The front insulation is all covered up here. The 2x4 blocks there will support a 2x10" water tub holding shelf. Having containers of water inside will keep the humidity up in the night box, and act as a bit of a heat sink. This technique has been working very well in my underground sulcata night box.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's a top view showing the area where the heater will live, the weather stripping in place, the door flaps, and the 2x4 in the back that the lid hinges attach to.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is the front with paint and door flaps and water shelves in place.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is the door. I will carve out the dirt where the door/ramp hits the ground so it sits flush. One "weak" spot of previous designs was the simple plywood door. I went to great time and trouble to super insulate my night boxes, but then just used thin plywood to cover the door holes. This time the door shares the same 1.5" insulation as the rest of the box. Door open:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Door Closed:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here you can see the heater installed, the metal heat shield above it, the water tubs for humidity on the shelves, and my purple shoe box that holds all my electrical stuff.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here are some of the babies enjoying their bermuda grass bedding.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is a wide view showing some of the enclosure. The empty wooden box in the lower right foreground of the pic is their 4x8' shade table/planter box. I will be filling it and planting leopard tortoise food in their in the next few days.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One more view of the same thing from the other side.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well that's it. Tell me what you think.


What are the water shelves used for? I am guessing open containers of water to increase humidity...


----------



## Tom

amcgath04 said:


> What are the water shelves used for? I am guessing open containers of water to increase humidity...



Correct. My climate is extremely dry.


----------



## JLM

This is an awesome design! Thanks for the ideas! Just curious if anyone has ever used ceramic tile flooring with radiant heating? I'm just hesitant about the plain wood flooring. Looking for something that would be easy to clean


----------



## Team Gomberg

JLM said:


> This is an awesome design! Thanks for the ideas! Just curious if anyone has ever used ceramic tile flooring with radiant heating? I'm just hesitant about the plain wood flooring. Looking for something that would be easy to clean



I used vinyl flooring and it's holding up great.. I didn't want a bare plywood bottom either.


----------



## BILBO-03

What all is in there heating it


----------



## Tom

BILBO-03 said:


> What all is in there heating it



This box is heated by a mini radiant oil filled heater. You can get them at Walmart for about $30. Then you need a $30 thermostat to control it.


----------



## BILBO-03

Ok and a heat mat is that fine

Would that be ok for a adult sucalta around 60 pounds


----------



## Tom

BILBO-03 said:


> Ok and a heat mat is that fine
> 
> Would that be ok for a adult sucalta around 60 pounds



I either do the radiant oil heater, OR I do the Kane mat/radiant heat panel combo.

Either will be fine for a large sulcata.


----------



## BILBO-03

Are large adults a lot of work


----------



## Tom

BILBO-03 said:


> Are large adults a lot of work



This depends on where you are and what kind of set up you have. My adult sulcatas are the least work of any of my tortoises. They retire to their burrows or boxes every night, I rinse and refill waters as needed, keep a flake of grass hay available and feed them other things when I get around to it. I sit and watch them more than I work on caring for them. In winter its even easier. When the rains come all sorts of weeds and grass sprout up and I don't have to feed them at all. They just graze whenever they want.


----------



## BILBO-03

I live in Ohio but if they had a heated night box could they live outside


----------



## Tom

BILBO-03 said:


> I live in Ohio but if they had a heated night box could they live outside



Not in winter.

Where will you house a 150 pound, active, destructive, eating machine that needs warm, tropical temperatures day and night when your Ohio winter sets in? They need a lot of room to roam, but they can't walk in the snow.


----------



## BILBO-03

Cause I'm saw somebody that said as long as they have a heated night box they will be fine in the snow


----------



## Yvonne G

A heated night box is just that - a heated *night box.* When it's snowing, you can't contain a large tortoise inside a night box. Some people get around this by providing a large shed for the tortoise to live in during the bad weather. Take a look at the pictures on page three of this thread:

http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/winter-adult-sulcata-housing.103555/page-3


----------



## BILBO-03

Ok thanks


----------



## kbarj

Is that a wire haired pointing griffon?


----------



## pugsandkids

Just have to say how happy I am that I found my way back to this group of amazing, knowledgeable people. Can't wait to get Sarges night box started!


----------



## Tom

kbarj said:


> Is that a wire haired pointing griffon?



German Wire-haired Pointer on the right and mutts center and left. We have three of the GWHPs.


----------



## Tom

pugsandkids said:


> Just have to say how happy I am that I found my way back to this group of amazing, knowledgeable people. Can't wait to get Sarges night box started!



And we're glad you're back!


----------



## Stephanie Beal

Tom said:


> After much thought about what worked and what I wanted to improve over previous attempts, here is the latest version with a step by step pictorial on how I did it. It is time for my 2010 South African herd to move outside. They are moving into a 16x20' completely closed in enclosure. The enclosure is a wooden frame enclosed top to bottom with welded wire. It has a wire roof and the wire extends 18" down into the ground. The actual night box is 4x8x2'. I found a mini oil-filled heater to heat it with. The heater is on a thermostat and will be set to 80 for about half of the year and 70 over the warmer months.
> 
> Here is the lid. You can see the insulation in place.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is the plywood cover going over the insulation in the lid. The lid fits on top of the box and is hinged. There will be weatherstripping all around the top and the lip on the lid keeps the rain out of the box. You can see a finished lid for a second box in the background.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is the bottom. Notice the door notch and how that will fit in later.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Insulation in the bottom. All the insulation is 1.5" thick and has the shiny mylar foil side pointing to the outside. Don't know if that matters much, but thats how I did it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Insulation on the floor all covered up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here the front and back are attached. Notice the door taking shape. Since 9 animals will initially share this, and as they get older they will get bigger, I went kinda big with the door at 26x16". This way one of them won't be able to sit in the doorway and block all the others in or out, and later, when they reach adult size, they will easily fit in and out of this door.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another view of the front with the sides going up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here the side wall insulation is in place and about to be covered up. This box is also double caulked to keep out any cold drafts on those below freezing winter nights. The only air movement will be from the door, or when I open the lid.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All buttoned up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here goes the front insulation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The front insulation is all covered up here. The 2x4 blocks there will support a 2x10" water tub holding shelf. Having containers of water inside will keep the humidity up in the night box, and act as a bit of a heat sink. This technique has been working very well in my underground sulcata night box.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's a top view showing the area where the heater will live, the weather stripping in place, the door flaps, and the 2x4 in the back that the lid hinges attach to.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is the front with paint and door flaps and water shelves in place.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is the door. I will carve out the dirt where the door/ramp hits the ground so it sits flush. One "weak" spot of previous designs was the simple plywood door. I went to great time and trouble to super insulate my night boxes, but then just used thin plywood to cover the door holes. This time the door shares the same 1.5" insulation as the rest of the box. Door open:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Door Closed:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here you can see the heater installed, the metal heat shield above it, the water tubs for humidity on the shelves, and my purple shoe box that holds all my electrical stuff.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here are some of the babies enjoying their bermuda grass bedding.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is a wide view showing some of the enclosure. The empty wooden box in the lower right foreground of the pic is their 4x8' shade table/planter box. I will be filling it and planting leopard tortoise food in their in the next few days.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One more view of the same thing from the other side.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well that's it. Tell me what you think.


Hello, I am in Houston and my husband is trying to replicate your awesome enclosure. we have some questions and was hoping you could maybe email us at [email protected]. Thanks, Steph Bruce Wayne's mom


----------



## Tom

Stephanie Beal said:


> Hello, I am in Houston and my husband is trying to replicate your awesome enclosure. we have some questions and was hoping you could maybe email us at [email protected]. Thanks, Steph Bruce Wayne's mom



Can we do the Q&A here on the forum? I'll bet lots of people have your same questions and could benefit from the discussion.


----------



## Stephanie Beal

Tom said:


> I think just refinements and fewer mistakes during the build. I'm putting them flat on the ground now instead of up on skids for areas that don't flood. I think the ground will keep them warmer as opposed to lifting them and letting below freezing air under there.


I wish you would do a full you tube video! for us not so amazing talented wood working peeps....js lol


----------



## Stephanie Beal

Tom said:


> Can we do the Q&A here on the forum? I'll bet lots of people have your same questions and could benefit from the discussion.


Sure, 
1. Can you give us the sizes of wood you used for what parts? 
2. Is there a certain type of calk you used?
3. what size hinges did you use and how many?
4. the plastic on the door.. did you just get that at Lowe's or Home Depot ? I know these are dumb questions but please understand we are newbies and I want it to be the best it can be. 

Thank you soooo much! This is the most amazing enclosure we have seen.


----------



## Tom

Stephanie Beal said:


> Sure,
> 1. Can you give us the sizes of wood you used for what parts?
> 2. Is there a certain type of calk you used?
> 3. what size hinges did you use and how many?
> 4. the plastic on the door.. did you just get that at Lowe's or Home Depot ? I know these are dumb questions but please understand we are newbies and I want it to be the best it can be.
> 
> Thank you soooo much! This is the most amazing enclosure we have seen.



1. The roof is a full, uncut 4x8' sheet of plywood. Then I build the box to fit inside the rim of the lid. I use 11/32 plywood now because it is lighter weight. The insulation maintains the heat, so I don't need thicker plywood.
2. I use GE Silicone I. It is plain silicone sealant. It is totally inert once cured. No UV protectants, no colors, no fumes, no toxins of any kind.
3. I usually use 2 or 3 4" door hinges for the lids in a 4x8' box, and only 2 on a 4x4' box.
4. The doors flaps are made from 6" wide vinyl freezer door flap material. It comes in a 100 foot roll and its heavy. I got my roll from the lovely @Yvonne G , but I'm sure you could find it on line as she did. I custom fit the flaps so that they are almost touching the floor, and I overlap them a bit.

These are great questions! Not a dumb one in the bunch. I'm glad you asked them. It took me a long time to figure out all these little details and my hope is that other people will find this info useful too.


----------



## DutchieAmanda

For next summer I also want to build a heated night box for my redfoot. I'm hoping that with the night box and a greenhouse I can keep her outside for at least some months, even in the colder Dutch climate. During the colder seasons I will keep her inside. What size would you recommend for the night box for one adult redfoot? Would 2x4 ft be big enough?


----------



## Tom

DutchieAmanda said:


> For next summer I also want to build a heated night box for my redfoot. I'm hoping that with the night box and a greenhouse I can keep her outside for at least some months, even in the colder Dutch climate. During the colder seasons I will keep her inside. What size would you recommend for the night box for one adult redfoot? Would 2x4 ft be big enough?



I like 4x4 for a tortoise of that size. I use a heat mat and over head radiant heat panel in that size box and having a 4x4 allows them to be on the mat if they want to be warmer, but get off the mat if they want to be cooler, but still warm enough inside their house. Like this:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/another-night-box-thread.88966/


----------



## JLM

Coming back to this thread...still planning...if I needed this to double as an enclosure for the times it cannot be outside...how would you recommend mounting lights? I'm planning 4x8 so it has room on days that it's not warm enough to be outdoors.


----------



## Yvonne G

We mounted a tube type UVB at one end in our night house for just that reason (the tortoises can't always go outside).


----------



## JLM

I'm standing at Walmart looking for the oil filled radiator and it's huge! @Tom can you give me specs on yours?
This one is 28" high and I know you said you were going to make your boxes 2' tall from now on so it makes me think this one is too big


----------



## Team Gomberg

Tom, are there any changes that can be made to the construction of this house that will make it lighter (for moving purposes) but won't affect the effectiveness? 
I need to build a larger heated house for my leopard (the current one is 2x4) but my husband frowning. He thinks this house is heavy enough and bigger = heavier! 

I don't think there is anything I can change to make it lighter. Am I right? Moving the house with the lid detached is about the only thing I can think of to make moving, easier.


----------



## Yvonne G

You can't buy quarter inch plywood anymore, but you can still get it in paneling. If you used paneling (quarter inch) and paint it to protect it from the humidity, it would make it a lot lighter. The rigid foam weighs practically nothing, and I don't think using a thinner plywood would change how cool or warm it is inside.


----------



## Dizisdalife

JLM said:


> I'm standing at Walmart looking for the oil filled radiator and it's huge! @Tom can you give me specs on yours?
> This one is 28" high and I know you said you were going to make your boxes 2' tall from now on so it makes me think this one is too big


You need to look for a mini oil filled radiator. The one I have is only 16" high. Here is what it looks like:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00MXEDAV...t=&hvlocphy=9031313&hvtargid=pla-274813158138


----------



## Tom

JLM said:


> I'm standing at Walmart looking for the oil filled radiator and it's huge! @Tom can you give me specs on yours?
> This one is 28" high and I know you said you were going to make your boxes 2' tall from now on so it makes me think this one is too big



Yeah… What Joe said.


----------



## Tom

Team Gomberg said:


> Tom, are there any changes that can be made to the construction of this house that will make it lighter (for moving purposes) but won't affect the effectiveness?
> I need to build a larger heated house for my leopard (the current one is 2x4) but my husband frowning. He thinks this house is heavy enough and bigger = heavier!
> 
> I don't think there is anything I can change to make it lighter. Am I right? Moving the house with the lid detached is about the only thing I can think of to make moving, easier.



Weight has been an issue for me too, so I've been messing with this in the last few builds, including the current one. Here is what I've come up with:
1. I use 11/32 plywood all around now instead of the older 15/32 or thicker stuff that I used to use. The insulation really does the job, so the thinner plywood still works well.
2. In the lid, I use 2x2s for framing instead of 2x4s.
3. Where ever it makes sense, I use 2x2s or 2x3s in the main structure of the box instead of 2x4s. This saves weight and money too.
4. Some 2x4s are "greener" and wetter, and these weigh literally 2 or 3 times as much as the drier lighter weight ones. I go through the stack and pick out the light weight 2x4s and 2x3s. This saves pounds for EACH 2x4 in some cases, but it costs you some time to be picky when going through the stacks.

This is what I'm doing for 4x8' boxes, so it will be even lighter on a 4x4. I'm able to carry my half of a 4x8 box by myself when using these techniques. I remove the lids when transporting.


----------



## Tom

Double post.


----------



## Turtulas-Len

Yvonne G said:


> You can't buy quarter inch plywood anymore, but you can still get it in paneling. If you used paneling (quarter inch) and paint it to protect it from the humidity, it would make it a lot lighter. The rigid foam weighs practically nothing, and I don't think using a thinner plywood would change how cool or warm it is inside.


1/4 inch plywood is called Luan (or lauan) today, it even comes 1/8 inch thick. mostly used on flooring projects. I built a 3x5 ft house for the female sulcatas using luan on the inside and outside walls.After a year some minor repair was needed on the inside corners due to digging.


----------



## JLM

Dizisdalife said:


> You need to look for a mini oil filled radiator. The one I have is only 16" high. Here is what it looks like:
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00MXEDAV...t=&hvlocphy=9031313&hvtargid=pla-274813158138



Thanks! You use this specific brand? Review over time?


----------



## Dizisdalife

JLM said:


> Thanks! You use this specific brand? Review over time?


I use this brand, this model. It's been in use for 4 years with no problem. I have it connected to a Zilla 1000W thermostat that I have used for 6 years with no problems. If the night box is sealed and insulated the way Tom suggest the heater runs for only a few minutes at a time.


----------



## Tom

Dizisdalife said:


> I use this brand, this model. It's been in use for 4 years with no problem. I have it connected to a Zilla 1000W thermostat that I have used for 6 years with no problems. If the night box is sealed and insulated the way Tom suggest the heater runs for only a few minutes at a time.



Same story here. I'm running three of them.


----------



## Team Gomberg

Dizisdalife said:


> I use this brand, this model. It's been in use for 4 years with no problem. I have it connected to a Zilla 1000W thermostat that I have used for 6 years with no problems. If the night box is sealed and insulated the way Tom suggest the heater runs for only a few minutes at a time.



and mine is going on 3 years!


----------



## JLM

Returned the big one and ordered the mini you linked. Thanks a lot!


----------



## JLM

Yvonne G said:


> We mounted a tube type UVB at one end in our night house for just that reason (the tortoises can't always go outside).


What bulb/holder do you recommend? I've been looking at reptisun 5 tube but not happy with holder choices. Would love your experience


----------



## Yvonne G

Mine came with the reflector. I don't have the boxes anymore, but I ordered them online, probably through Amazon. I'll go there and see if I can find it.


----------



## Yvonne G

Seems like I've only ordered the bulbs from Amazon (looking at my history). My tortoise partner, @Will bought me the first 4 fixtures and they came with reflectors. This is an example of the reflector, and I'm pretty sure that's the brand, however, the unit in this link doesn't say anything about UVB:

https://www.nwgsupply.com/products/...Cn_A0bdOtwp-f-rNkKtpq4DoHqwwik0M3kaAkRk8P8HAQ

I'm completely satisfied with the reflectors. They're very shiny chrome and really reflect the light well.


----------



## kbarj

Here it is. I think my son did a great job. The box is something he got at work, he is an insulator. It is some sort of galvanized ductwork and sure cut some work out. 3x6x21" I was going for 4x8 but considering the convenience its perfect. He said I got the wrong kind of insulation but with the oil heater it will hold at least 80* easily. I put the UVB on the lid and with a timer during the day. I haven't opened the drop down door yet as we're in the depths of winter here in Pleasant Hill Missouri. I put a brick in next to the heater because she kept knocking it over and hitting the on off switch. Bad Rover Land Rover.




yet


----------



## Nicholas Bova

This is awesome, will defianetly be building this hopefully next weekend for my sully. time to get it outside(dont know the sex yet lol)


----------



## kbarj

Here is my winter box. It is made of a galvanized airconditioning box. Lined it with insulation then plywood.. The top is lined plywood with a uvb light on a timer. The oil radiator heat keeps it toasty and even has decent humidity. We also cut a drop down door but havent used it as it is too cold out.


Nicholas Bova said:


> This is awesome, will defianetly be building this hopefully next weekend for my sully. time to get it outside(dont know the sex yet lol)


Good luck!


----------



## Nicholas Bova

kbarj said:


> Here is my winter box. It is made of a galvanized airconditioning box. Lined it with insulation then plywood.. The top is lined plywood with a uvb light on a timer. The oil radiator heat keeps it toasty and even has decent humidity. We also cut a drop down door but havent used it as it is too cold out.
> 
> Good luck!


How could I incorporate a basking lamp


----------



## BevSmith

This is fantastic! Thank you for the step-by-step photos. Super helpful.


----------



## janevicki

What an awesome night box! You have thought about every little detail on how to do the night box. Thanks for sharing. It really helps me out because I wish to make one also and I'm going to pull up this post and try to do it as close to yours as I can. I really like the idea of the oil filled heaters for winter. Hopefully I can save on my electric bill this winter....


----------



## Cowboy_Ken

janevicki said:


> I really like the idea of the oil filled heaters for winter. Hopefully I can save on my electric bill this winter....


 My outdoor heated box is heated by an oil filled radiator heater and I've used it/them for all my outdoor boxes. Other than the fact that they "function as advertised", with no moving parts to wear out from use, they last forever. I've got backups in the garage as a replacement, but there they sit gathering dust.


----------



## MichaelaW

How do you get the lip on the lid to fit over the walls if the plywood on the top and bottom are the same size? I'm going to try and build a 4x8 for this winter and but am a total newbie at building things, so we'll see how it goes.


----------



## Tom

MichaelaW said:


> How do you get the lip on the lid to fit over the walls if the plywood on the top and bottom are the same size? I'm going to try and build a 4x8 for this winter and but am a total newbie at building things, so we'll see how it goes.



I make the lid out of a full uncut sheet of plywood. Then I make everything else fit inside.

So the lid is 48x96"
The outside of the box is about 44x92"
The inside of the box where the tortoises hang out is about 41x89" when its all done.


----------



## MichaelaW

Tom said:


> I make the lid out of a full uncut sheet of plywood. Then I make everything else fit inside.
> 
> So the lid is 48x96"
> The outside of the box is about 44x92"
> The inside of the box where the tortoises hang out is about 41x89" when its all done.





Tom said:


> I make the lid out of a full uncut sheet of plywood. Then I make everything else fit inside.
> 
> So the lid is 48x96"
> The outside of the box is about 44x92"
> The inside of the box where the tortoises hang out is about 41x89" when its all done.


Would you happen to know the dimensions of each piece of plywood on the inside walls? I think I'm going to need to get those cut at Lowe's.


----------



## Tom

MichaelaW said:


> Would you happen to know the dimensions of each piece of plywood on the inside walls? I think I'm going to need to get those cut at Lowe's.



There is a CAD breakdown of one of my boxes and I will link the tread for you, but I don't know how well it will work to have everything pre cut. I measure and cut each piece as I go. Each box is a custom job.
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/thread...g-of-toms-night-box-with-exploded-view.97697/


----------



## G-stars

Pre cutting rarely works. Especially with wood. It's best to take it one cut at a time. I speak from experience.


----------



## Markw84

I pre-cut all mine, but I am pretty experienced with layout and woodworking. It does take a bit of experience and math to get things right. I like having everything ready to assemble. Goes quite quickly that way. However, Measuring as you go is much easier and less mistakes. It is just a more tedious process. Since I made more than one, it made sense to me to have an exact plan.

I would never have Home Depot or Lowes pre-cut though. I find their cuts are rarely accurate enough for things to fit properly. If the cuts are not accurate, you will have a lot of gaps to fill and/or pieces that will not fit inside the parts you already assembled.


----------



## MichaelaW

Markw84 said:


> I pre-cut all mine, but I am pretty experienced with layout and woodworking. It does take a bit of experience and math to get things right. I like having everything ready to assemble. Goes quite quickly that way. However, Measuring as you go is much easier and less mistakes. It is just a more tedious process. Since I made more than one, it made sense to me to have an exact plan.
> 
> I would never have Home Depot or Lowes pre-cut though. I find their cuts are rarely accurate enough for things to fit properly. If the cuts are not accurate, you will have a lot of gaps to fill and/or pieces that will not fit inside the parts you already assembled.


Do you recommend a circular saw? My neighbor has one but I don't have a clue with power tools.


----------



## Markw84

MichaelaW said:


> Do you recommend a circular saw? My neighbor has one but I don't have a clue with power tools.


I have a table saw, but also will use a circular saw for this. Without experience this may not be a good choice for you unless you are pretty handy.

Perhaps you can find a cabinet shop, or sign shop that would cut the pieces on their table saws for you. They would do it properly.


----------



## Tom

MichaelaW said:


> Do you recommend a circular saw? My neighbor has one but I don't have a clue with power tools.



Gotta learn sometime…

See if the neighbor, or a friend or family member will come help, and teach you how to safely use it. Anyone should be able to use one safely with a little instruction and practice.

I use a circular saw for all of my boxes. I'd like to have a shop with a table saw, but that is a fantasy for now. You can do anything with a saw and some saw horses! You can always come here and ask for help too. I'm self taught, and each box gets better and better as I learn more and gain practice.


----------



## MichaelaW

Ok, so I made a diagram of the exact measurements for my cut list just to get an idea. I've already spent time lurking around at Lowe's and checking out the materials I'll need. What do you think about using pressure treated wood? I know you go with the plain wood, but down here in south Texas, when it rains, it pours, so it's not quite as dry as where you are. Do you think I could get away with pre-cutting only the plywood at Lowe's? If I can get that out of the way, cutting the rest should be no problem.


----------



## Tom

MichaelaW said:


> Ok, so I made a diagram of the exact measurements for my cut list just to get an idea. I've already spent time lurking around at Lowe's and checking out the materials I'll need. What do you think about using pressure treated wood? I know you go with the plain wood, but down here in south Texas, when it rains, it pours, so it's not quite as dry as where you are. Do you think I could get away with pre-cutting only the plywood at Lowe's? If I can get that out of the way, cutting the rest should be no problem.



Pressure treated stuff should be fine on the outside, but I wouldn't use it inside or for the frame. I find that primer and exterior paint holds up pretty well. Every May I paint the tops white and every October I paint them dark again. This keeps the paint fresh on top which is the only place I see wear.

I've also been toying with the idea of using some of that corrugated, UV protected plastic on the tops. That would protect your tops too.


----------



## JLM

Has anyone used a gas charged strut/support on the lid? I have one on a shed made of plastic and think it would make sense for this lid made of very heavy wood. Anyone have success with this that could offer advice?


----------



## Tom

JLM said:


> Has anyone used a gas charged strut/support on the lid? I have one on a shed made of plastic and think it would make sense for this lid made of very heavy wood. Anyone have success with this that could offer advice?


I've though about it several times, but never done it.


----------



## richosullivan

On my small box (which measures 24 x 20, i use black vinyl runner on the top: 

http://www.acehardware.com/product/...76&cp=2568443.2568451.2626210.2627537.2627551

And use these types of screws to help ensure water doesn't seep in (dealing with Florida rain) - the drill bit is right next to the screws at Home Depot and Lowes so assume that would be the case at most stores.:

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Everbilt...rene-Washer-1-lb-Box-53-Pack-116043/205142716

For my larger house, I used polycarbonate roofing, and put it on a slight angle to assist with run off:

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Suntuf-2...gclsrc=aw.ds&dclid=CNbFwpbwgdYCFRQWgQodtncFfw

Here is a photo from my large box (has worked well so far and we've had rain what seems like almost everyday since the end of June).


----------



## Tom

richosullivan said:


> On my small box (which measures 24 x 20, i use black vinyl runner on the top:
> 
> http://www.acehardware.com/product/...76&cp=2568443.2568451.2626210.2627537.2627551
> 
> And use these types of screws to help ensure water doesn't seep in (dealing with Florida rain) - the drill bit is right next to the screws at Home Depot and Lowes so assume that would be the case at most stores.:
> 
> http://www.homedepot.com/p/Everbilt...rene-Washer-1-lb-Box-53-Pack-116043/205142716
> 
> For my larger house, I used polycarbonate roofing, and put it on a slight angle to assist with run off:
> 
> http://www.homedepot.com/p/Suntuf-26-in-x-6-ft-Polycarbonate-Roof-Panel-in-Clear-155030/206166246?cm_mmc=Shopping|THD|G|0|G-BASE-PLA-D22-Roofing|&gclid=Cj0KCQjw557NBRC9ARIsAHJvVVOSCgkK0zoJhEnfwdkVhnUbfOmm3_hql3MuFyWrKUokpWRLrLkntVEaAs8cEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds&dclid=CNbFwpbwgdYCFRQWgQodtncFfw
> 
> Here is a photo from my large box (has worked well so far and we've had rain what seems like almost everyday since the end of June).



I like the corrugated poly carb roofing idea. I've been using that over some of my bird cages and its working really well. I used white to block the summer sun. I'm going to try it on my tortoise boxes after I re-paint them this fall.


----------



## richosullivan

Tom said:


> I like the corrugated poly carb roofing idea. I've been using that over some of my bird cages and its working really well. I used white to block the summer sun. I'm going to try it on my tortoise boxes after I re-paint them this fall.



It's pretty cheap for a big sheet, and is so easy to cut - i just put a 1 x 2 at one side to give it some tilt so the water runs off the back. It also stand up really well to a lot of direct sun (at least Florida sun).


----------



## Tom

richosullivan said:


> It's pretty cheap for a big sheet, and is so easy to cut - i just put a 1 x 2 at one side to give it some tilt so the water runs off the back. It also stand up really well to a lot of direct sun (at least Florida sun).



We get it in 8 or 10' lengths and its 26" wide so you can get a little overlap.


----------



## nyejoshua

Tom said:


> Pressure treated stuff should be fine on the outside, but I wouldn't use it inside or for the frame. I find that primer and exterior paint holds up pretty well. Every May I paint the tops white and every October I paint them dark again. This keeps the paint fresh on top which is the only place I see wear.
> 
> I've also been toying with the idea of using some of that corrugated, UV protected plastic on the tops. That would protect your tops too.



Why do recommend not using pressure-treated wood on the inside?


----------



## Bambam1989

nyejoshua said:


> Why do recommend not using pressure-treated wood on the inside?


Pressure treated wood is when they use high pressure to force chemicals into the wood, thus preserving it longer. This means that your tort could become sick from the chemicals used.


----------



## nyejoshua

Bambam1989 said:


> Pressure treated wood is when they use high pressure to force chemicals into the wood, thus preserving it longer. This means that your tort could become sick from the chemicals used.



Oh man. I just finished framing out my box with pressure-treated wood. I spent hours. All of the walls, floor, doors. Insulated and ready to put together.


----------



## Bambam1989

nyejoshua said:


> Oh man. I just finished framing out my box with pressure-treated wood. I spent hours. All of the walls, floor, doors. Insulated and ready to put together.


If you line the inside with untreated plywood (preferably not made of pine) it may be ok... What do you think @Tom ?


----------



## nyejoshua

Also, a lot of the framing is old. Maybe some of the chemicals have had time to off-gas?


----------



## nyejoshua

Also, I did not insulate the floor. I used 3/4” plywood. Everything else is insulated. Do you think that will be ok?


----------



## nyejoshua

nyejoshua said:


> Also, I did not insulate the floor. I used 3/4” plywood. Everything else is insulated. Do you think that will be ok?



Btw, I am in Central Florida. We haven’t had a hard freeze here in a long time. We have a few days a year where it drops below 40.


----------



## Tom

nyejoshua said:


> Oh man. I just finished framing out my box with pressure-treated wood. I spent hours. All of the walls, floor, doors. Insulated and ready to put together.


I wouldn't use pressure treated wood in any confined space with any live animal. Outdoors with open ventilation is fine, but not closed in a box.

I know its a bummer, but when these things happen and I really don't want to go through the hassle of re-doing something, I just envision finding my tortoise dead. Then I go ahead and re-do whatever needed to be done.


----------



## nyejoshua

Tom said:


> I wouldn't use pressure treated wood in any confined space with any live animal. Outdoor with open ventilation is fine, but not closed in a box.
> 
> I know its a bummer, but when these things happen and I really don't want to go through the hassle of re-doing something, I just envision finding my tortoise dead. Then I go ahead and re-do whatever needed to be done.



Ok. I will pull the PT. Thanks for the honesty. I don’t want to hurt my tort.


----------



## Tom

nyejoshua said:


> Also, I did not insulate the floor. I used 3/4” plywood. Everything else is insulated. Do you think that will be ok?



Definitely not okay. That is probably the number one area to be losing heat. This is an easy fix though. Just frame the floor with flat 2x4s, drop in the 1.5 inch rigid foam insulation, run GE Silicone 1 sealant all around the framing, and then drop a sheet of plywood on top of that. I usually screw the plywood down to really set the sealant.


----------



## nyejoshua

Tom said:


> Definitely not okay. That is probably the number one area to be losing heat. This is an easy fix though. Just frame the floor with flat 2x4s, drop in the 1.5 inch rigid foam insulation, run GE Silicone 1 sealant all around the framing, and then drop a sheet of plywood on top of that. I usually screw the plywood down to really set the sealant.



Will do.


----------



## Kendra North

Hi Tom, thank you so much for posting step-by-step instructions on how to build this. We followed your instructions and built the night box for our two tortoises. It works great, and we are so pleased. The only trouble we are having is with maintaining the humidity. We have 5 containers of water on the shelves, and I spray water inside the enclosure several times a day. However, the humidity is only around 30-35%. Do you have any suggestions?


----------



## JLM

We had the same issue. I added this http://a.co/3jGJQms plugged into this http://a.co/g430BQP and no issues since. Keeps perfect humidity once you get the settings right


----------



## Kendra North

Thank you so much for the recommendation. We will order those items today!


----------



## Dizisdalife

Kendra North said:


> Hi Tom, thank you so much for posting step-by-step instructions on how to build this. We followed your instructions and built the night box for our two tortoises. It works great, and we are so pleased. The only trouble we are having is with maintaining the humidity. We have 5 containers of water on the shelves, and I spray water inside the enclosure several times a day. However, the humidity is only around 30-35%. Do you have any suggestions?


There are a couple of things that stand out to me in these photos. First, there is no weatherstripping on the lid. Heat and moisture will easily escape through the small cracks. Secondly, there is no covering on the doorway. To hold humidity in, and heat, there needs to be a covering on the doorway. I'm sure that a humidifier or mister will help, but until the box is better seal I don't believe that you will be satisfied with the results.


----------



## Hugo's Home

JLM said:


> We had the same issue. I added this http://a.co/3jGJQms plugged into this http://a.co/g430BQP and no issues since. Keeps perfect humidity once you get the settings right


How often do you have to fill it? I'm having a similar delima. Humidity is about 12% with just one small water dish. The box is pretry well sealed and holds temps at 78-80F when its 24 F out! And was thinking about a humidifier but didn't really know how to controll it. Was thinking on plugging it into the thermostat so that it would only turn on when the heater is on. But I didn't know there was a humidity controller avaliable. Thanks!


----------



## Kaliman1962

will that fogger give enough to humidify a 4x4 enclosed chamber?
i have the repti-fogger, its not strong enough


----------



## Kendra North

Dizisdalife said:


> There are a couple of things that stand out to me in these photos. First, there is no weatherstripping on the lid. Heat and moisture will easily escape through the small cracks. Secondly, there is no covering on the doorway. To hold humidity in, and heat, there needs to be a covering on the doorway. I'm sure that a humidifier or mister will help, but until the box is better seal I don't believe that you will be satisfied with the results.


I didn't realize we didn't do the weather stripping yet, but we were working in the door covering today. Thank you for your observations!


----------



## Tom

Kendra North said:


> I didn't realize we didn't do the weather stripping yet, but we were working in the door covering today. Thank you for your observations!



I agree with what Joe said. I think you will have no trouble maintaining humidity once you make those changes.

One other thing that I learned from Joe that is really helping a lot, is to run a 4" computer fan inside the box to circulate the air. I get one with a speed controller, and I set it on the thermostat, so the fan only runs when the heater is on. You could set it to run all the time if you wanted, but its working well for me as is.


----------



## JLM

Dizisdalife said:


> There are a couple of things that stand out to me in these photos. First, there is no weatherstripping on the lid. Heat and moisture will easily escape through the small cracks. Secondly, there is no covering on the doorway. To hold humidity in, and heat, there needs to be a covering on the doorway. I'm sure that a humidifier or mister will help, but until the box is better seal I don't believe that you will be satisfied with the results.


We put weatherstripping on ours


----------



## JLM

Hugo's Home said:


> How often do you have to fill it? I'm having a similar delima. Humidity is about 12% with just one small water dish. The box is pretry well sealed and holds temps at 78-80F when its 24 F out! And was thinking about a humidifier but didn't really know how to controll it. Was thinking on plugging it into the thermostat so that it would only turn on when the heater is on. But I didn't know there was a humidity controller avaliable. Thanks!


I fill it daily sometimes every other it depends on outside humidity. I do not use the hose. I had to play around with settings a bit to get it right


----------



## JLM

Kaliman1962 said:


> will that fogger give enough to humidify a 4x4 enclosed chamber?
> i have the repti-fogger, its not strong enough


Mine is 4x6x3 and it worked for me


----------



## Hugo's Home

JLM said:


> We had the same issue. I added this http://a.co/3jGJQms plugged into this http://a.co/g430BQP and no issues since. Keeps perfect humidity once you get the settings right


So I got a humidifier the other day. With that controller on the way.. stupid amazon.. Did you notice a temperature drop? Or having a harder time keeping temps up? It seems when I have it on during the day, the box is staying around 81 with 70% humidity.. Usually when it was off it stays around 85 or so during the day. We were about 75 yesterday lol (poor cold weather folks). I haven't had it on at night since I'm worried the temps could drop even more.. last night we were about 40 and the box stayed at 83 with about 30%humidity with the humidifier off.


----------



## Kaliman1962

i have the humidifier going 12 hours, i have a 4x4 totally enclosed, the humidity is only maybe 40%, but my tank is hotter too, i wonder if i need to soak the substrate too, but the lights dry everything out, any suggestions??


----------



## JLM

Hugo's Home said:


> So I got a humidifier the other day. With that controller on the way.. stupid amazon.. Did you notice a temperature drop? Or having a harder time keeping temps up? It seems when I have it on during the day, the box is staying around 81 with 70% humidity.. Usually when it was off it stays around 85 or so during the day. We were about 75 yesterday lol (poor cold weather folks). I haven't had it on at night since I'm worried the temps could drop even more.. last night we were about 40 and the box stayed at 83 with about 30%humidity with the humidifier off.


I do wet the substrate once a week or so and mix it up well. I am not having issues during normal weather. This extreme cold is killing me though


----------



## Ron Blue

I followed Tom's directions in this post and made this box pictured above. In NE Ohio it's too cold to keep our sulcatas outside all Winter long - they'd be in this box for 3-4 months - but having the box allowed me to keep our guys out until the first week of December instead of late October. I hope to put them outside at the end of his month (March) as long as we get periods of warmer weather in between our typical 30-40 degree temps. 

Great plan Tom, thanks a bunch.


----------



## kellygirl64

It's very awesome. Thanks for sharing it with all of us !!


----------



## Emily Oliveira

that looks great!


----------



## Pearly

Tom said:


> After much thought about what worked and what I wanted to improve over previous attempts, here is the latest version with a step by step pictorial on how I did it. It is time for my 2010 South African herd to move outside. They are moving into a 16x20' completely closed in enclosure. The enclosure is a wooden frame enclosed top to bottom with welded wire. It has a wire roof and the wire extends 18" down into the ground. The actual night box is 4x8x2'. I found a mini oil-filled heater to heat it with. The heater is on a thermostat and will be set to 80 for about half of the year and 70 over the warmer months.
> 
> Here is the lid. You can see the insulation in place.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is the plywood cover going over the insulation in the lid. The lid fits on top of the box and is hinged. There will be weatherstripping all around the top and the lip on the lid keeps the rain out of the box. You can see a finished lid for a second box in the background.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is the bottom. Notice the door notch and how that will fit in later.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Insulation in the bottom. All the insulation is 1.5" thick and has the shiny mylar foil side pointing to the outside. Don't know if that matters much, but thats how I did it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Insulation on the floor all covered up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here the front and back are attached. Notice the door taking shape. Since 9 animals will initially share this, and as they get older they will get bigger, I went kinda big with the door at 26x16". This way one of them won't be able to sit in the doorway and block all the others in or out, and later, when they reach adult size, they will easily fit in and out of this door.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another view of the front with the sides going up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here the side wall insulation is in place and about to be covered up. This box is also double caulked to keep out any cold drafts on those below freezing winter nights. The only air movement will be from the door, or when I open the lid.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All buttoned up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here goes the front insulation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The front insulation is all covered up here. The 2x4 blocks there will support a 2x10" water tub holding shelf. Having containers of water inside will keep the humidity up in the night box, and act as a bit of a heat sink. This technique has been working very well in my underground sulcata night box.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's a top view showing the area where the heater will live, the weather stripping in place, the door flaps, and the 2x4 in the back that the lid hinges attach to.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is the front with paint and door flaps and water shelves in place.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is the door. I will carve out the dirt where the door/ramp hits the ground so it sits flush. One "weak" spot of previous designs was the simple plywood door. I went to great time and trouble to super insulate my night boxes, but then just used thin plywood to cover the door holes. This time the door shares the same 1.5" insulation as the rest of the box. Door open:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Door Closed:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here you can see the heater installed, the metal heat shield above it, the water tubs for humidity on the shelves, and my purple shoe box that holds all my electrical stuff.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here are some of the babies enjoying their bermuda grass bedding.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is a wide view showing some of the enclosure. The empty wooden box in the lower right foreground of the pic is their 4x8' shade table/planter box. I will be filling it and planting leopard tortoise food in their in the next few days.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One more view of the same thing from the other side.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well that's it. Tell me what you think.



Hey Tom, I hope you don’t mind if I use your pictures to totally plagiarize your night box?[emoji6]My Two are getting their outdoor house built this Summer (somehow... I hope I find some guy (or gal) handy with their tools which I AM NOT) and instead of trying to explain the specifics and trying to stimulate their imagination, I’d just SHOW them how it could be done. With your permission that is. I love your design! And I totally envy your skills. I could only do a decent job with decorating it and plant a tortoise garden around it with native to my area tort friendly plants to make it look natural (or cute). So, with your permission I’d like to use your well illustrated post in building my RF house, please?


----------



## Tom

Pearly said:


> Hey Tom, I hope you don’t mind if I use your pictures to totally plagiarize your night box?[emoji6]My Two are getting their outdoor house built this Summer (somehow... I hope I find some guy (or gal) handy with their tools which I AM NOT) and instead of trying to explain the specifics and trying to stimulate their imagination, I’d just SHOW them how it could be done. With your permission that is. I love your design! And I totally envy your skills. I could only do a decent job with decorating it and plant a tortoise garden around it with native to my area tort friendly plants to make it look natural (or cute). So, with your permission I’d like to use your well illustrated post in building my RF house, please?


No permission needed. I posted it here in the hopes that other people would be able to copy it or use it for inspiration. I also hope people come up with ways to do it even better than what I've been able to figure out so far.

Here is a CAD exploded view that might help your builder:
https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/h...g-of-toms-night-box-with-exploded-view.97697/


----------



## Pearly

Tom said:


> No permission needed. I posted it here in the hopes that other people would be able to copy it or use it for inspiration. I also hope people come up with ways to do it even better than what I've been able to figure out so far.
> 
> Here is a CAD exploded view that might help your builder:
> https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/h...g-of-toms-night-box-with-exploded-view.97697/



Thank you Thank youMmmmmmwwwwwaaaa[emoji182]


----------



## TriciaStringer

Tom said:


> After much thought about what worked and what I wanted to improve over previous attempts, here is the latest version with a step by step pictorial on how I did it. It is time for my 2010 South African herd to move outside. They are moving into a 16x20' completely closed in enclosure. The enclosure is a wooden frame enclosed top to bottom with welded wire. It has a wire roof and the wire extends 18" down into the ground. The actual night box is 4x8x2'. I found a mini oil-filled heater to heat it with. The heater is on a thermostat and will be set to 80 for about half of the year and 70 over the warmer months.
> 
> Here is the lid. You can see the insulation in place.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is the plywood cover going over the insulation in the lid. The lid fits on top of the box and is hinged. There will be weatherstripping all around the top and the lip on the lid keeps the rain out of the box. You can see a finished lid for a second box in the background.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is the bottom. Notice the door notch and how that will fit in later.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Insulation in the bottom. All the insulation is 1.5" thick and has the shiny mylar foil side pointing to the outside. Don't know if that matters much, but thats how I did it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Insulation on the floor all covered up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here the front and back are attached. Notice the door taking shape. Since 9 animals will initially share this, and as they get older they will get bigger, I went kinda big with the door at 26x16". This way one of them won't be able to sit in the doorway and block all the others in or out, and later, when they reach adult size, they will easily fit in and out of this door.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another view of the front with the sides going up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here the side wall insulation is in place and about to be covered up. This box is also double caulked to keep out any cold drafts on those below freezing winter nights. The only air movement will be from the door, or when I open the lid.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All buttoned up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here goes the front insulation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The front insulation is all covered up here. The 2x4 blocks there will support a 2x10" water tub holding shelf. Having containers of water inside will keep the humidity up in the night box, and act as a bit of a heat sink. This technique has been working very well in my underground sulcata night box.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's a top view showing the area where the heater will live, the weather stripping in place, the door flaps, and the 2x4 in the back that the lid hinges attach to.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is the front with paint and door flaps and water shelves in place.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is the door. I will carve out the dirt where the door/ramp hits the ground so it sits flush. One "weak" spot of previous designs was the simple plywood door. I went to great time and trouble to super insulate my night boxes, but then just used thin plywood to cover the door holes. This time the door shares the same 1.5" insulation as the rest of the box. Door open:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Door Closed:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here you can see the heater installed, the metal heat shield above it, the water tubs for humidity on the shelves, and my purple shoe box that holds all my electrical stuff.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here are some of the babies enjoying their bermuda grass bedding.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is a wide view showing some of the enclosure. The empty wooden box in the lower right foreground of the pic is their 4x8' shade table/planter box. I will be filling it and planting leopard tortoise food in their in the next few days.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One more view of the same thing from the other side.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well that's it. Tell me what you think.



We are about to build this. My husband is worried the insulation will not be good enough if it dips into the 20-30s at night in the winter. We plan on closing the door when that happens. Does your box stay warm enough in those nighttime temps? Our stores around here only have the insulation 1" thick. Do you think that will be good?


----------



## Dizisdalife

My night box is built like this and, with an oil filled radiator, it stays warm when nights are 30°. We don't see any nights in the 20's, but I'm sure it would stay warm if we did. The heater would run more often of course. I close the door every night. It keeps predators out and my tortoise in. I would suggest you ask you hardware store to order the 1-1/2" thick insulation for you. It will really help out on the cold winter nights. If they won't get 1-1/2" insulation for you then use a 1" piece and a 1/2 piece with it to fill the space with insulation.


----------



## Tom

TriciaStringer said:


> We are about to build this. My husband is worried the insulation will not be good enough if it dips into the 20-30s at night in the winter. We plan on closing the door when that happens. Does your box stay warm enough in those nighttime temps? Our stores around here only have the insulation 1" thick. Do you think that will be good?



Its been down to 22 here at night and boxes stayed 80. Most winter night are in the 30s here, and my heaters don't even have to run all that much.

Like Joe I close the door every night on all my boxes, after I make sure everybody is inside the box, of course.

I also agree that you'll need 1.5 inch insulation. I use that and I seal the seems several times as I build to ensure redundancy. The sealing and thick insulation make all the difference in the world.


----------



## vladimir

My local Lowe's was out of 1.5" insulation so I went with 1" of the hard green kingspan insulation and 1/2" of the foam / foil backed kind to fill up the full 1.5 inches. I'm not sure how much less effective this is compared to just using 1.5” insulation


----------



## Pearly

Tom said:


> Its been down to 22 here at night and boxes stayed 80. Most winter night are in the 30s here, and my heaters don't even have to run all that much.
> 
> Like Joe I close the door every night on all my boxes, after I make sure everybody is inside the box, of course.
> 
> I also agree that you'll need 1.5 inch insulation. I use that and I seal the seems several times as I build to ensure redundancy. The sealing and thick insulation make all the difference in the world.



Yes, yes Guys, please keep it going here in this thread! I’m soaking it ALL right in!


----------



## Tom

vladimir said:


> My local Lowe's was out of 1.5" insulation so I went with 1" of the hard green kingspan insulation and 1/2" of the foam / foil backed kind to fill up the full 1.5 inches. I'm not sure how much less effective this is compared to just using 1.5” insulation



Does your box hold the correct temp on a cold night? Seems like it would with your method.


----------



## vladimir

Tom said:


> Does your box hold the correct temp on a cold night? Seems like it would with your method.



He hasn't actually moved in yet, but this box is also setup for an indoor enclosure, so I was less worried about the possible reduction in insulation. I've done some test runs with the Olympus mini radiator you recommend and it definitely gets nice and toasty in there, and stays that way for awhile. I don't have any doors on it yet either.

My build progress is here: https://tortoiseforum.org/index.php?posts/1594079

Thank you again for all your hard work in perfecting the best night box possible over the years Tom [emoji846]


----------



## NBCMad92

Tom said:


> After much thought about what worked and what I wanted to improve over previous attempts, here is the latest version with a step by step pictorial on how I did it. It is time for my 2010 South African herd to move outside. They are moving into a 16x20' completely closed in enclosure. The enclosure is a wooden frame enclosed top to bottom with welded wire. It has a wire roof and the wire extends 18" down into the ground. The actual night box is 4x8x2'. I found a mini oil-filled heater to heat it with. The heater is on a thermostat and will be set to 80 for about half of the year and 70 over the warmer months.
> 
> Here is the lid. You can see the insulation in place.
> 
> Here is the plywood cover going over the insulation in the lid. The lid fits on top of the box and is hinged. There will be weatherstripping all around the top and the lip on the lid keeps the rain out of the box. You can see a finished lid for a second box in the background.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is the bottom. Notice the door notch and how that will fit in later.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Insulation in the bottom. All the insulation is 1.5" thick and has the shiny mylar foil side pointing to the outside. Don't know if that matters much, but thats how I did it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Insulation on the floor all covered up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here the front and back are attached. Notice the door taking shape. Since 9 animals will initially share this, and as they get older they will get bigger, I went kinda big with the door at 26x16". This way one of them won't be able to sit in the doorway and block all the others in or out, and later, when they reach adult size, they will easily fit in and out of this door.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another view of the front with the sides going up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here the side wall insulation is in place and about to be covered up. This box is also double caulked to keep out any cold drafts on those below freezing winter nights. The only air movement will be from the door, or when I open the lid.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All buttoned up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here goes the front insulation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The front insulation is all covered up here. The 2x4 blocks there will support a 2x10" water tub holding shelf. Having containers of water inside will keep the humidity up in the night box, and act as a bit of a heat sink. This technique has been working very well in my underground sulcata night box.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's a top view showing the area where the heater will live, the weather stripping in place, the door flaps, and the 2x4 in the back that the lid hinges attach to.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is the front with paint and door flaps and water shelves in place.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is the door. I will carve out the dirt where the door/ramp hits the ground so it sits flush. One "weak" spot of previous designs was the simple plywood door. I went to great time and trouble to super insulate my night boxes, but then just used thin plywood to cover the door holes. This time the door shares the same 1.5" insulation as the rest of the box. Door open:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Door Closed:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here you can see the heater installed, the metal heat shield above it, the water tubs for humidity on the shelves, and my purple shoe box that holds all my electrical stuff.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here are some of the babies enjoying their bermuda grass bedding.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is a wide view showing some of the enclosure. The empty wooden box in the lower right foreground of the pic is their 4x8' shade table/planter box. I will be filling it and planting leopard tortoise food in their in the next few days.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One more view of the same thing from the other side.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well that's it. Tell me what you think.





Tom said:


> After much thought about what worked and what I wanted to improve over previous attempts, here is the latest version with a step by step pictorial on how I did it. It is time for my 2010 South African herd to move outside. They are moving into a 16x20' completely closed in enclosure. The enclosure is a wooden frame enclosed top to bottom with welded wire. It has a wire roof and the wire extends 18" down into the ground. The actual night box is 4x8x2'. I found a mini oil-filled heater to heat it with. The heater is on a thermostat and will be set to 80 for about half of the year and 70 over the warmer months.
> 
> Here is the lid. You can see the insulation in place.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is the plywood cover going over the insulation in the lid. The lid fits on top of the box and is hinged. There will be weatherstripping all around the top and the lip on the lid keeps the rain out of the box. You can see a finished lid for a second box in the background.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is the bottom. Notice the door notch and how that will fit in later.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Insulation in the bottom. All the insulation is 1.5" thick and has the shiny mylar foil side pointing to the outside. Don't know if that matters much, but thats how I did it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Insulation on the floor all covered up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here the front and back are attached. Notice the door taking shape. Since 9 animals will initially share this, and as they get older they will get bigger, I went kinda big with the door at 26x16". This way one of them won't be able to sit in the doorway and block all the others in or out, and later, when they reach adult size, they will easily fit in and out of this door.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another view of the front with the sides going up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here the side wall insulation is in place and about to be covered up. This box is also double caulked to keep out any cold drafts on those below freezing winter nights. The only air movement will be from the door, or when I open the lid.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All buttoned up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here goes the front insulation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The front insulation is all covered up here. The 2x4 blocks there will support a 2x10" water tub holding shelf. Having containers of water inside will keep the humidity up in the night box, and act as a bit of a heat sink. This technique has been working very well in my underground sulcata night box.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's a top view showing the area where the heater will live, the weather stripping in place, the door flaps, and the 2x4 in the back that the lid hinges attach to.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is the front with paint and door flaps and water shelves in place.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is the door. I will carve out the dirt where the door/ramp hits the ground so it sits flush. One "weak" spot of previous designs was the simple plywood door. I went to great time and trouble to super insulate my night boxes, but then just used thin plywood to cover the door holes. This time the door shares the same 1.5" insulation as the rest of the box. Door open:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Door Closed:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here you can see the heater installed, the metal heat shield above it, the water tubs for humidity on the shelves, and my purple shoe box that holds all my electrical stuff.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here are some of the babies enjoying their bermuda grass bedding.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is a wide view showing some of the enclosure. The empty wooden box in the lower right foreground of the pic is their 4x8' shade table/planter box. I will be filling it and planting leopard tortoise food in their in the next few days.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One more view of the same thing from the other side.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well that's it. Tell me what you think.



Omg! Literally have found this so helpful!


----------



## Kploch

Is it weather proof? For rain ?


----------



## Julia1982

Tom- do you make the top a few inches bigger than the bottom to it hangs over?


----------



## Tom

Kploch said:


> Is it weather proof? For rain ?


Yes. The overhang on the lid extends down about an inch and a half, and the whole thing is sealed with caulking on the inside, and primer and exterior paint on the outside.


----------



## Tom

Julia1982 said:


> Tom- do you make the top a few inches bigger than the bottom to it hangs over?


Yes. The lid is a full uncut 4x8' sheet of plywood. The 2x4s around the rim are each 1.5 inches wide, so I lose 3" there. Then I want about a half inch of clearance all around for the lid, so that is one more inch. The outer dimensions of the box are roughly 92x44". Then due to the wall thickness, inner dimensions where the tortoises hang out is around 88x39".


----------



## EllieMay

I have printed out you step by step pictorial and presented to hubby! He is going to build this for our 3


----------



## Maro2Bear

EllieMay said:


> I have printed out you step by step pictorial and presented to hubby! He is going to build this for our 3



I’ll bet hubby is sooooooo happy now, yeah, a new night box! Good luck.


----------



## EllieMay

Maro2Bear said:


> I’ll bet hubby is sooooooo happy now, yeah, a new night box! Good luck.



Lol!! I’m lucky he’s a good sort. I have been working all week on New larger indoor enclosures for Pickles and Crusher.. he helped me finish up this morning and I didn’t even have to ask[emoji16]. I had to move one out of “the room” because I just ran out of space!


----------



## Arzu78

AMAZING!!! Perfection!!!


----------



## Julia1982

Tom, my father-in-law is in the process of building your design for me and has a question:

Tom, How did you get such nice straight cuts for the corners of your front door of your house? What tools did you use to cut your front door out? I was thinking a drill to make holes for a Jigsaw Blade to go through, but both corners for the door look to straight for that. I'm not really sure how you did it, can you explain your process. The cuts look really straight even the corners. I'm thinking their is a process you used, that I'm not aware of. 
Thanks for any information you are willing to pass on.


----------



## Julia1982

Tom- where do you find the oil heater??


----------



## Julia1982

Tom- where did you buy the oil heater?


----------



## Cowboy_Ken

Julia1982 said:


> Tom- where did you buy the oil heater?



Typically I buy mine where Tom himself buys his, WallyWorld or if cheaper and safer, Amazon. 
Cowboy Ken


----------



## Tom

Julia1982 said:


> Tom- where do you find the oil heater??


Walmart.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/PowerZone-CYPB-7-Mini-Oil-Filled-Radiator-Electric-Heater-700-W/196995166


----------



## Tom

Julia1982 said:


> Tom, my father-in-law is in the process of building your design for me and has a question:
> 
> Tom, How did you get such nice straight cuts for the corners of your front door of your house? What tools did you use to cut your front door out? I was thinking a drill to make holes for a Jigsaw Blade to go through, but both corners for the door look to straight for that. I'm not really sure how you did it, can you explain your process. The cuts look really straight even the corners. I'm thinking their is a process you used, that I'm not aware of.
> Thanks for any information you are willing to pass on.



Its sort of a long explanation to explain how the whole box is built and in what order, but for the step you are asking about, I put the front on the box and put a few screws in it to make sure everything is lined up properly, then I trace the bottom of the door area with a pencil. Then I take the front off again, and measure and make my door using the traced part to make sure it is in the perfect spot.

Now the part you are asking about: I use a Skil Saw (aka: Circular Saw) to make the cuts. I've done it so many times that I can eyeball it and line it up by hand. I hold the saw in my left hand, raise up the back of the saw so that it is resting on the front only and the blade is lifted clear of the wood, and start the saw, then I lift the safety gate out of the way with my right hand. Next I line up the rotating blade over my lines and very carefully lower the blade into the wood, minding the line the whole time. Once the saw is resting flat and the cut so far is nice and straight, I slowly and gently pull the blade backwards along my line until it reaches the corner, and then I simply push it forward and finish the rest of the cut along the line. Next I lift the blade up and out of the plywood, move it over, and do the corresponding parallel line. After that, I rotate the piece and do the same thing for the other two lines.

This technique leaves just a little material in each corner, and I have a little thin bladed hand saw that I use to clean up the corners. Then I save the cut center piece to use to make the door. Not surprisingly, it is a perfect fitting door every time! I drop the spinning blade into the work very slowly and carefully, maintaining a firm grip on the saw. I always anticipate some kick back or stuttering, but it never has happened. Likewise, I don't think you are supposed to drag the saw backwards, but I'm only doing it for an inch or two, and the saw has never bucked or jumped while I'm doing this. I'm not a construction guy. I'm a self taught novice, so I'm not sure that this is the "correct" or safest way to do this, but it works for me without having to drill holes that will ruin my door piece, or use a jigsaw which is slow and doesn't make the straightest or cleanest cuts for my untrained hand.


----------



## wccmog10

Tom said:


> Its sort of a long explanation to explain how the whole box is built and in what order, but for the step you are asking about, I put the front on the box and put a few screws in it to make sure everything is lined up properly, then I trace the bottom of the door area with a pencil. Then I take the front off again, and measure and make my door using the traced part to make sure it is in the perfect spot.
> 
> Now the part you are asking about: I use a Skil Saw (aka: Circular Saw) to make the cuts. I've done it so many times that I can eyeball it and line it up by hand. I hold the saw in my left hand, raise up the back of the saw so that it is resting on the front only and the blade is lifted clear of the wood, and start the saw, then I lift the safety gate out of the way with my right hand. Next I line up the rotating blade over my lines and very carefully lower the blade into the wood, minding the line the whole time. Once the saw is resting flat and the cut so far is nice and straight, I slowly and gently pull the blade backwards along my line until it reaches the corner, and then I simply push it forward and finish the rest of the cut along the line. Next I lift the blade up and out of the plywood, move it over, and do the corresponding parallel line. After that, I rotate the piece and do the same thing for the other two lines.
> 
> This technique leaves just a little material in each corner, and I have a little thin bladed hand saw that I use to clean up the corners. Then I save the cut center piece to use to make the door. Not surprisingly, it is a perfect fitting door every time! I drop the spinning blade into the work very slowly and carefully, maintaining a firm grip on the saw. I always anticipate some kick back or stuttering, but it never has happened. Likewise, I don't think you are supposed to drag the saw backwards, but I'm only doing it for an inch or two, and the saw has never bucked or jumped while I'm doing this. I'm not a construction guy. I'm a self taught novice, so I'm not sure that this is the "correct" or safest way to do this, but it works for me without having to drill holes that will ruin my door piece, or use a jigsaw which is slow and doesn't make the straightest or cleanest cuts for my untrained hand.



As far as I know this is an acceptable use for a circular saw. I think it is called a “plunge cut” or something like that. My suggestion would be not to run it backwards- I’m glad you’ve never had any kickback- but I have had some before. It didn’t hurt anyone- but it made the edges pretty rough and ugly, and we want our tortoise boxes to be pretty . What I would do is make my plunge cut, the push forward to my stopping spot. Then just remove the saw, turn it around and insert the blade back into my already cut portion, then finish the cut. This way the saw is always cutting when it is moving forward.


----------



## Julia1982

Tom, where do you get the metal heat shield for above the heater?


----------



## Tom

Julia1982 said:


> Tom, where do you get the metal heat shield for above the heater?


I get those at Home Depot or Lowes. I don't think they are "necessary", but its cheap insurance.


----------



## Madfishflame

Watts


----------



## Julia1982

Tom- do you have the heater plugged into a timer? What do you use to check temperature?


----------



## Tom

Julia1982 said:


> Tom- do you have the heater plugged into a timer? What do you use to check temperature?


The heater is set on a thermostat. Like this one: https://www.lllreptile.com/products/13883-zilla-1000-watt-temperature-controller

To check temperatures I hang a thermometer/hygrometer on the wall that shows current temp and humidity, as well as recording the daily high and low. Like this: https://www.lowes.com/pd/AcuRite-Digital-Weather-Station/1000162483


----------



## Julia1982

Tom- do you have the oil lamp plugged into a timer? What do you use to check the temp?


----------



## Tom

Julia1982 said:


> Tom- do you have the oil lamp plugged into a timer? What do you use to check the temp?


There is no oil lamp.

The heater is set on a thermostat. Like this one: https://www.lllreptile.com/products/13883-zilla-1000-watt-temperature-controller

To check temperatures I hang a thermometer/hygrometer on the wall that shows current temp and humidity, as well as recording the daily high and low. Like this: https://www.lowes.com/pd/AcuRite-Digital-Weather-Station/1000162483


----------



## Julia1982

Oh lol. Apparently the “oil filled” on the heater confused me. I have that temp controller. Thanks!!!


----------



## Julia1982

Tom, do you only use the mini heater in these or do you have radiant panels in there too?


----------



## Tom

Julia1982 said:


> Tom, do you only use the mini heater in these or do you have radiant panels in there too?


In 4x4' boxes, I usually use an RHP/Kane mat combo. In the bigger 4x8' boxes, I use the mini radiant oil heaters.


----------



## Julia1982

My box is finally done! I want to put some sort of bedding in part of he box....what should I use? Hay? Dirt?


----------



## Julia1982

Tom,

My box is finally done! I want to put some sort of bedding in part of he box....what should I use? Hay? Dirt?


----------



## vladimir

Julia1982 said:


> Tom,
> View attachment 257166
> My box is finally done! I want to put some sort of bedding in part of he box....what should I use? Hay? Dirt?


If anything, some reptibark / fine grade orchid bark would work. I had some in my box but after a few bathroom uses I realized it made the mess harder to clean up, so now it is a bare bottom. He doesn't seem to mind.


Nice work, by the way! [emoji16]


----------



## Julia1982

In the winter my area goes down to the 30’s/40’s at night. What should I set the heater temp? I was thinking 80??


----------



## Tom

Julia1982 said:


> In the winter my area goes down to the 30’s/40’s at night. What should I set the heater temp? I was thinking 80??


Your box looks great! Looks like you put in a guard so you can use a mini radiant oil heater. In that case, you can use dirt _or_ grass hay, or both.

What species is the box for and where are you?


----------



## Julia1982

Thanks Tom! My father-in-law made it for me for my 2 leopard torts. I am in central California, Fresno area.


----------



## Julia1982

Tom- 

At night I can’t get the temp above 74 degrees. I have it set at 82 degrees. The temp probe is on the ground. I have the heater is up all the way. I am not sure what I could do differently. The torts temp is reading 70 degrees via temp gun. Any ideas?


----------



## vladimir

How cold is the outside temp at night? Can you post some more pictures of the inside and the doorway? Are there any gaps where air could be getting out?

In the 4x4x2 night box I have we put 1/2" foam insulation in the roof - not sure if that would help in your case or not


----------



## Julia1982

It gets about 40 degrees at night. The house was made identical to Tom’s design. I will get some pics.


----------



## Yvonne G

Julia1982 said:


> Tom-
> 
> At night I can’t get the temp above 74 degrees. I have it set at 82 degrees. The temp probe is on the ground. I have the heater is up all the way. I am not sure what I could do differently. The torts temp is reading 70 degrees via temp gun. Any ideas?


I had this problem with my Vision Cages. come to find out, the walls are too thin and I needed to box the cage in with rigid foam insulation. Did you insulate the walls of your night box? And what thickness of insulation did you use?


----------



## Julia1982

It is well insulated. We followed Tom’s guide exactly.


----------



## Tom

Julia1982 said:


> Tom-
> 
> At night I can’t get the temp above 74 degrees. I have it set at 82 degrees. The temp probe is on the ground. I have the heater is up all the way. I am not sure what I could do differently. The torts temp is reading 70 degrees via temp gun. Any ideas?


What are you using to heat it?
Is the heater running all the time? Sometimes the little number on the thermostat isn't accurate. You have to use your thermometer to set the temp. If it is set to 82 and only going to 74, set the thermostat to 90 and then see where it holds the temperature.


----------



## jsheffield

Tom said:


> After much thought about what worked and what I wanted to improve over previous attempts, here is the latest version with a step by step pictorial on how I did it. It is time for my 2010 South African herd to move outside. They are moving into a 16x20' completely closed in enclosure. The enclosure is a wooden frame enclosed top to bottom with welded wire. It has a wire roof and the wire extends 18" down into the ground. The actual night box is 4x8x2'. I found a mini oil-filled heater to heat it with. The heater is on a thermostat and will be set to 80 for about half of the year and 70 over the warmer months.
> 
> Here is the lid. You can see the insulation in place.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is the plywood cover going over the insulation in the lid. The lid fits on top of the box and is hinged. There will be weatherstripping all around the top and the lip on the lid keeps the rain out of the box. You can see a finished lid for a second box in the background.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is the bottom. Notice the door notch and how that will fit in later.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Insulation in the bottom. All the insulation is 1.5" thick and has the shiny mylar foil side pointing to the outside. Don't know if that matters much, but thats how I did it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Insulation on the floor all covered up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here the front and back are attached. Notice the door taking shape. Since 9 animals will initially share this, and as they get older they will get bigger, I went kinda big with the door at 26x16". This way one of them won't be able to sit in the doorway and block all the others in or out, and later, when they reach adult size, they will easily fit in and out of this door.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another view of the front with the sides going up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here the side wall insulation is in place and about to be covered up. This box is also double caulked to keep out any cold drafts on those below freezing winter nights. The only air movement will be from the door, or when I open the lid.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All buttoned up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here goes the front insulation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The front insulation is all covered up here. The 2x4 blocks there will support a 2x10" water tub holding shelf. Having containers of water inside will keep the humidity up in the night box, and act as a bit of a heat sink. This technique has been working very well in my underground sulcata night box.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's a top view showing the area where the heater will live, the weather stripping in place, the door flaps, and the 2x4 in the back that the lid hinges attach to.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is the front with paint and door flaps and water shelves in place.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is the door. I will carve out the dirt where the door/ramp hits the ground so it sits flush. One "weak" spot of previous designs was the simple plywood door. I went to great time and trouble to super insulate my night boxes, but then just used thin plywood to cover the door holes. This time the door shares the same 1.5" insulation as the rest of the box. Door open:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Door Closed:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here you can see the heater installed, the metal heat shield above it, the water tubs for humidity on the shelves, and my purple shoe box that holds all my electrical stuff.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here are some of the babies enjoying their bermuda grass bedding.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is a wide view showing some of the enclosure. The empty wooden box in the lower right foreground of the pic is their 4x8' shade table/planter box. I will be filling it and planting leopard tortoise food in their in the next few days.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One more view of the same thing from the other side.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well that's it. Tell me what you think.



I'm planning on building a slightly smaller (3'X4') version of this fantastic night box for my redfoot, the idea being to stretch his outside time during the New Hampshire summer.

Thanks,

Jamie


----------



## Julia1982

I’m using the mini heater that you posted on here. I have it hooked to the Jumpstart that I have set at 80 degrees. So should I move the Jumpstart temp higher? I have the same thermometer you posted here. I have the heater knob turned all the way high. The probe for the jumpstart is on the ground.


----------



## Always pondering

Here is our night box, built as close to Tom's design as I could make it. The mat on the bottom was given to us with Timmi. We have the thermostat set to 85 and during the day it gets to that but in the early morning its usually about 74. The side with the mat would obviously be warmer. I've looked but haven't been able to find how warm should it be? Also, how close should the RHP be to the top of her shell?


----------



## Cheryl Hills

Nice job.


----------



## Tom

Always pondering said:


> Here is our night box, built as close to Tom's design as I could make it. The mat on the bottom was given to us with Timmi. We have the thermostat set to 85 and during the day it gets to that but in the early morning its usually about 74. The side with the mat would obviously be warmer. I've looked but haven't been able to find how warm should it be? Also, how close should the RHP be to the top of her shell?



Your box looks great! The one thing I see that is conspicuously absent, and would allow your heat to escape, is weatherstripping around the top. I'll net that if you put that in, your night temps will stay warmer. I use this type: https://www.homedepot.com/p/Frost-K...r-Strip-Tape-Cushioned-Ribbed-V27WA/100166568
To install it, you'll need to detach your lid hinges, rest the lid on top of the weather stripping, and then reattach the hinges. This will allow for the extra height of the weatherstripping. If you attach the weather stripping and don't change the hinge mounting height, it will smash the stripping in the back, push it out of the way, and leave a small gap in the front at the same time. Ask me how I know this...

I like the boxes to be 80 in spring and fall when we have warm days, but cold nights. 86 in winter, and I set it to 70 or unplug the heaters when our summer days are near 100 everyday.

The distance you have your RHP set seems great to me. Use a thermometer to check the temp at tortoise shell height at night while the heater is running. You can set a digital thermometer that records highs and lows on a stack of bricks under the RHP, or make a little platform of some sort or other.

Try letting your thermostat probe dangle a few inches lower and see if that changes your night temps too.


----------



## Tom

Julia1982 said:


> I’m using the mini heater that you posted on here. I have it hooked to the Jumpstart that I have set at 80 degrees. So should I move the Jumpstart temp higher? I have the same thermometer you posted here. I have the heater knob turned all the way high. The probe for the jumpstart is on the ground.


Lift the probe up about halfway up the wall so the tortoise doesn't get tangled in it. The probe should be somewhere far from the heater.

The number you see on the Jumpstart unit is a good place to start, but use your thermometer readings to adjust it up or down. 80 on the unit might only be 74 in reality. Bump the unit up to 86 and then see what your thermometer says. I had one unit that needed to be set at 90 on the dial in order to maintain 80 in the box. I had another thermostat that needed to be set at 76-77 to maintain 80.


----------



## Always pondering

Tom said:


> Your box looks great! The one thing I see that is conspicuously absent, and would allow your heat to escape, is weatherstripping around the top. I'll net that if you put that in, your night temps will stay warmer. I use this type: https://www.homedepot.com/p/Frost-K...r-Strip-Tape-Cushioned-Ribbed-V27WA/100166568
> To install it, you'll need to detach your lid hinges, rest the lid on top of the weather stripping, and then reattach the hinges. This will allow for the extra height of the weatherstripping. If you attach the weather stripping and don't change the hinge mounting height, it will smash the stripping in the back, push it out of the way, and leave a small gap in the front at the same time. Ask me how I know this...
> 
> I like the boxes to be 80 in spring and fall when we have warm days, but cold nights. 86 in winter, and I set it to 70 or unplug the heaters when our summer days are near 100 everyday.
> 
> The distance you have your RHP set seems great to me. Use a thermometer to check the temp at tortoise shell height at night while the heater is running. You can set a digital thermometer that records highs and lows on a stack of bricks under the RHP, or make a little platform of some sort or other.
> 
> Try letting your thermostat probe dangle a few inches lower and see if that changes your night temps too.



Thank you, Tom. I thought that foam stuff would work but I can see how much better the weatherstripping you use is. I'll be getting some tomorrow. We'll also be getting a digital thermometer in there tomorrow near the rhp.
Thanks again,
Rich


----------



## Drww

That looks awesome!


----------



## Maidens Hill Farm

I am about to adopt a 4yo Male Sulcata! This is exactly what I have been searching for on the forum. Thanks! Quick question, from a newbie... If they like moisture and burrowing, is there any benefit to leaving some of the floor in this winter enclosure open to loose soil with mulch over it (thinking they want to burrow in something), or will that lose all the heat through the hole? Also, Im in VA, where it's cold now..do I leave the front open in the day for him to go out in his pin even if its cold? Do the flaps keep it warm enough inside?


----------



## Cathie G

Tom said:


> After much thought about what worked and what I wanted to improve over previous attempts, here is the latest version with a step by step pictorial on how I did it. It is time for my 2010 South African herd to move outside. They are moving into a 16x20' completely closed in enclosure. The enclosure is a wooden frame enclosed top to bottom with welded wire. It has a wire roof and the wire extends 18" down into the ground. The actual night box is 4x8x2'. I found a mini oil-filled heater to heat it with. The heater is on a thermostat and will be set to 80 for about half of the year and 70 over the warmer months.
> 
> Here is the lid. You can see the insulation in place.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is the plywood cover going over the insulation in the lid. The lid fits on top of the box and is hinged. There will be weatherstripping all around the top and the lip on the lid keeps the rain out of the box. You can see a finished lid for a second box in the background.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is the bottom. Notice the door notch and how that will fit in later.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Insulation in the bottom. All the insulation is 1.5" thick and has the shiny mylar foil side pointing to the outside. Don't know if that matters much, but thats how I did it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Insulation on the floor all covered up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here the front and back are attached. Notice the door taking shape. Since 9 animals will initially share this, and as they get older they will get bigger, I went kinda big with the door at 26x16". This way one of them won't be able to sit in the doorway and block all the others in or out, and later, when they reach adult size, they will easily fit in and out of this door.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another view of the front with the sides going up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here the side wall insulation is in place and about to be covered up. This box is also double caulked to keep out any cold drafts on those below freezing winter nights. The only air movement will be from the door, or when I open the lid.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All buttoned up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here goes the front insulation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The front insulation is all covered up here. The 2x4 blocks there will support a 2x10" water tub holding shelf. Having containers of water inside will keep the humidity up in the night box, and act as a bit of a heat sink. This technique has been working very well in my underground sulcata night box.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's a top view showing the area where the heater will live, the weather stripping in place, the door flaps, and the 2x4 in the back that the lid hinges attach to.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is the front with paint and door flaps and water shelves in place.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is the door. I will carve out the dirt where the door/ramp hits the ground so it sits flush. One "weak" spot of previous designs was the simple plywood door. I went to great time and trouble to super insulate my night boxes, but then just used thin plywood to cover the door holes. This time the door shares the same 1.5" insulation as the rest of the box. Door open:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Door Closed:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here you can see the heater installed, the metal heat shield above it, the water tubs for humidity on the shelves, and my purple shoe box that holds all my electrical stuff.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here are some of the babies enjoying their bermuda grass bedding.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is a wide view showing some of the enclosure. The empty wooden box in the lower right foreground of the pic is their 4x8' shade table/planter box. I will be filling it and planting leopard tortoise food in their in the next few days.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One more view of the same thing from the other side.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well that's it. Tell me what you think.


Nice.


----------



## kmloughran

Are you still using the De'Longhi oil radiator in there? I've been shopping around for them and keep getting reviews about the "smells" that come off various models/brands. So looking for a good review from you as to what you have used/liked. Thanks


----------



## Tom

kmloughran said:


> Are you still using the De'Longhi oil radiator in there? I've been shopping around for them and keep getting reviews about the "smells" that come off various models/brands. So looking for a good review from you as to what you have used/liked. Thanks


I've used several different brands and types. All work well and all smell funny when you first plug them in. I run them for 20-30 minutes outside two or three times, and let them warm up and cool off a few times before using them in my boxes. This breaks them in, lets me be sure they are working properly and gets rid of that "new heater" smell.


----------



## kmloughran

How wide should my door be?


----------



## kmloughran

Also, will 4x4 be big enough for our single leopard?


----------



## Tom

kmloughran said:


> How wide should my door be?



For a regular leopard I'd make the door 14-16" wide and 12-14" tall.

4x4 is plenty big enough for one leopard. Here is how I build and heat those:
https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/another-night-box-thread.88966/


----------



## tortlover73

@Tom 
Holy cow building that door is a booger! Think I’ve got it done. It fits so tight I need to put a handle on it to be able to open the door for her. Wondering if you put the weather stripping on the box and the lid or just on one side... and what about the tortoise door. Do you put the weather stripping on that too???


----------



## Tom

tortlover73 said:


> @Tom
> Holy cow building that door is a booger! Think I’ve got it done. It fits so tight I need to put a handle on it to be able to open the door for her. Wondering if you put the weather stripping on the box and the lid or just on one side... and what about the tortoise door. Do you put the weather stripping on that too???


 For the doorway, I let the 2x4 framing jut into the door way about 1/4". Then when I cut the door out of the front and inside plywood panels, I save those two pieces and make my for out of them. Doing it this way makes a perfect fit every time. I usually plane about 1/16 of an inch around all four sides of the door just for a little clearance.

I weather strip the whole top. I do not weather strip the door at all.


----------



## tortlover73

Ok thanks. I’ll definitely try that next time. Do you put the shelf in the 4x4? Just trying to figure out where it would go with the rhp that is yet to go in.


----------



## Leo1827

Hi Tom,

Having recently acquired a 20yr old female leopard tort, I am keen to provide her with somewhere warm to sleep and spend cold days in. I was asking Lynn about ideas on how to house my tort adequately outside and she gave me your thread. Your night box looks and sounds like the perfect solution. I have some questions:

1. Would the size you have made, be big enough for my tort? Her she’ll measure 16” from front to back. 

If not

2. What dimensions would you recommend? 

3. Would someone like me, who has no carpentery skills, be able to make a box like yours.

4. Where did you get your oil heater from?

5. What about UVB lighting. Could a suitable UVB tube light be fitted to the lid or near the top of the box?

Sorry to ask so many questions, but I am concerned that, if I don’t get something sorted for her soon, she is going have health problems due to not being warm enough. I’ve had her for 2 weeks,.

Many thanks

Jacqui


----------



## tortlover73

@Tom i am on the final steps. Painting the top. Then gotta put the weather stripping on , the hinges and the lid supports. Install the rhp and put the shelves in for the water buckets. Getting close! I’m not the greatest carpenter and there are a lot of flaws.... but next time, if I am brave enough to make a 4x8 I won’t make as many mistakes


----------



## Tom

Leo1827 said:


> Hi Tom,
> 
> Having recently acquired a 20yr old female leopard tort, I am keen to provide her with somewhere warm to sleep and spend cold days in. I was asking Lynn about ideas on how to house my tort adequately outside and she gave me your thread. Your night box looks and sounds like the perfect solution. I have some questions:
> 
> 1. Would the size you have made, be big enough for my tort? Her she’ll measure 16” from front to back.
> 
> If not
> 
> 2. What dimensions would you recommend?
> 
> 3. Would someone like me, who has no carpentery skills, be able to make a box like yours.
> 
> 4. Where did you get your oil heater from?
> 
> 5. What about UVB lighting. Could a suitable UVB tube light be fitted to the lid or near the top of the box?
> 
> Sorry to ask so many questions, but I am concerned that, if I don’t get something sorted for her soon, she is going have health problems due to not being warm enough. I’ve had her for 2 weeks,.
> 
> Many thanks
> 
> Jacqui



Hi Jacqui.

1. and 2. A 4x4' box will be best for a single adult leopard. Like this: https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/another-night-box-thread.88966/. This style and heating is best because they can get on the heat when they want to warm up, and they can be off the heat, but still in the warm box when they are warm enough.
3. I don't know. I made my first ones with no carpentry skills. The more I didi it, the better I got at it.
4. Walmart.
5. No need for UV for a tortoise that is going to be living outside. Save the UV for your indoor winter enclosure.

Your tortoise needs warm temperatures immediately. This box will work okay in summer, but you'll need to work something else out for winter.


----------



## Leo1827

Hi Tom, thanks for getting back to me and thanks for answering my barrage of questions. I managed to get a 500w oil heater from my local DIY store. Are you saying, I’m gonna have to think of doing something else for my tort for winter? I was thinking if I aimed to build a 6’x4’ Nightbox with corrugated plastic overhanging the lid to keep the rain off, put the oil heater in, as you’ve done in your most recent box, I could keep my tort in it during the winter too. She’d have access to come and go out n the garden as she pleases although, I expect she’d wanna stay inside, in the warm, when it’s really cold and wet.


----------



## Maro2Bear

Tom said:


> After much thought about what worked and what I wanted to improve over previous attempts, here is the latest version with a step by step pictorial on how I did it. It is time for my 2010 South African herd to move outside. They are moving into a 16x20' completely closed in enclosure. The enclosure is a wooden frame enclosed top to bottom with welded wire. It has a wire roof and the wire extends 18" down into the ground. The actual night box is 4x8x2'. I found a mini oil-filled heater to heat it with. The heater is on a thermostat and will be set to 80 for about half of the year and 70 over the warmer months.
> 
> Here is the lid. You can see the insulation in place.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is the plywood cover going over the insulation in the lid. The lid fits on top of the box and is hinged. There will be weatherstripping all around the top and the lip on the lid keeps the rain out of the box. You can see a finished lid for a second box in the background.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is the bottom. Notice the door notch and how that will fit in later.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Insulation in the bottom. All the insulation is 1.5" thick and has the shiny mylar foil side pointing to the outside. Don't know if that matters much, but thats how I did it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Insulation on the floor all covered up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here the front and back are attached. Notice the door taking shape. Since 9 animals will initially share this, and as they get older they will get bigger, I went kinda big with the door at 26x16". This way one of them won't be able to sit in the doorway and block all the others in or out, and later, when they reach adult size, they will easily fit in and out of this door.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another view of the front with the sides going up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here the side wall insulation is in place and about to be covered up. This box is also double caulked to keep out any cold drafts on those below freezing winter nights. The only air movement will be from the door, or when I open the lid.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All buttoned up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here goes the front insulation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The front insulation is all covered up here. The 2x4 blocks there will support a 2x10" water tub holding shelf. Having containers of water inside will keep the humidity up in the night box, and act as a bit of a heat sink. This technique has been working very well in my underground sulcata night box.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's a top view showing the area where the heater will live, the weather stripping in place, the door flaps, and the 2x4 in the back that the lid hinges attach to.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is the front with paint and door flaps and water shelves in place.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is the door. I will carve out the dirt where the door/ramp hits the ground so it sits flush. One "weak" spot of previous designs was the simple plywood door. I went to great time and trouble to super insulate my night boxes, but then just used thin plywood to cover the door holes. This time the door shares the same 1.5" insulation as the rest of the box. Door open:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Door Closed:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here you can see the heater installed, the metal heat shield above it, the water tubs for humidity on the shelves, and my purple shoe box that holds all my electrical stuff.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here are some of the babies enjoying their bermuda grass bedding.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is a wide view showing some of the enclosure. The empty wooden box in the lower right foreground of the pic is their 4x8' shade table/planter box. I will be filling it and planting leopard tortoise food in their in the next few days.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One more view of the same thing from the other side.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well that's it. Tell me what you think.




Ogh no, it looks like all the photos have vanished! @Tom


----------



## vladimir

It looks like archive.org has at least some of them:


----------



## vladimir

http://i47.tinypic.com/ao0wo6.jpg




http://i45.tinypic.com/18d5dg.jpg
http://i47.tinypic.com/259bwva.jpg
http://i48.tinypic.com/py4o3.jpg
http://i45.tinypic.com/4ih5cm.jpg
http://i45.tinypic.com/5bel9i.jpg
http://i48.tinypic.com/309og29.jpg
http://i50.tinypic.com/1qsbuo.jpg
http://i48.tinypic.com/359eov9.jpg
http://i48.tinypic.com/zvmt5.jpg




http://i48.tinypic.com/14k9u85.jpg




http://i50.tinypic.com/3135d3s.jpg
http://i45.tinypic.com/118m8mh.jpg
http://i50.tinypic.com/2qdd8om.jpg
http://i45.tinypic.com/30w1f0o.jpg


I got some of them, but unfortunately most of them didn't seem to get captured by archive.org


----------



## Tom

Thank you for doing that @vladimir !


----------



## vladimir

You're very welcome. It's a shame they weren't all archived.


----------



## M-Torr

Hi Tom, any new threads that you would suggest for outside boxes?? Can’t see your pictures anymore. Getting ready to move my little, bit so little guy out full time. Thanks


----------



## Minty82

M-Torr said:


> Hi Tom, any new threads that you would suggest for outside boxes?? Can’t see your pictures anymore. Getting ready to move my little, bit so little guy out full time. Thanks



agree, @Tom any chance you have any other posts, like to see other people’s builds


----------



## goReptiles

I’d love to see the original photos. I’m wanting to send to my dad to see if he will build for me. Where can I see the photos?


----------



## Tom

M-Torr said:


> Hi Tom, any new threads that you would suggest for outside boxes?? Can’t see your pictures anymore. Getting ready to move my little, bit so little guy out full time. Thanks





Minty82 said:


> agree, @Tom any chance you have any other posts, like to see other people’s builds





goReptiles said:


> I’d love to see the original photos. I’m wanting to send to my dad to see if he will build for me. Where can I see the photos?



Here are two designs and supportive threads to go with them:





Single Tortoise Night Box


I like my larger tortoises to live outside full time. My climate permits this year round with a little help. For people who live where it snows all winter, this type of box is still good for warmer weather, getting them out earlier in Spring, and keeping them out a bit later into fall. You'll...




tortoiseforum.org









Double Door Night Box


As the years have gone by and I build more of these boxes, I learn more and more each time. This one is the latest and I incorporated everything I've learned over the years. I also tried to take lots of pics so I can explain in more detail some of what is going on. It will take multiple posts to...




tortoiseforum.org









Here is the 4x8 rendering of Tom's Night Box. With Exploded view.


This is a rendering I did based off of @Tom 's heated night box enclosure. Its probably not a 100% accurate. Door is offset to one side for my personal needs but can easily be moved. Let me know if you see any issues with it. Feed back appreciated. High res renderings can be downloaded here...




tortoiseforum.org









What You'll Need to Build A Night Box


I just typed up a list of the needed supplies to build a night box and thought I'd copy paste it here: For sulcatas, I make the doors 26x16". This will fit all but the largest of large males for their entire life. If you end up with one of the giants, you will eventually have to make another...




tortoiseforum.org


----------



## goReptiles

Tom said:


> Here are two designs and supportive threads to go with them:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Single Tortoise Night Box
> 
> 
> I like my larger tortoises to live outside full time. My climate permits this year round with a little help. For people who live where it snows all winter, this type of box is still good for warmer weather, getting them out earlier in Spring, and keeping them out a bit later into fall. You'll...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tortoiseforum.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Double Door Night Box
> 
> 
> As the years have gone by and I build more of these boxes, I learn more and more each time. This one is the latest and I incorporated everything I've learned over the years. I also tried to take lots of pics so I can explain in more detail some of what is going on. It will take multiple posts to...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tortoiseforum.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is the 4x8 rendering of Tom's Night Box. With Exploded view.
> 
> 
> This is a rendering I did based off of @Tom 's heated night box enclosure. Its probably not a 100% accurate. Door is offset to one side for my personal needs but can easily be moved. Let me know if you see any issues with it. Feed back appreciated. High res renderings can be downloaded here...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tortoiseforum.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What You'll Need to Build A Night Box
> 
> 
> I just typed up a list of the needed supplies to build a night box and thought I'd copy paste it here: For sulcatas, I make the doors 26x16". This will fit all but the largest of large males for their entire life. If you end up with one of the giants, you will eventually have to make another...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tortoiseforum.org




Thank you!!!
@Tom Do you paint the inside? Or just the outside?


----------



## Tom

goReptiles said:


> Thank you!!!
> @Tom Do you paint the inside? Or just the outside?


I never use paint inside. If its for a dry species and I intend to have only moderate humidity, like for adult sulcatas, I leave the inside untreated. I'll put a thin layer of dirt on the floor for easier clean up.

If I intend to maintain high humidity inside the box, like I did for my stars, I use Pond Shield inside. Its expensive and can be tricky to work with, but the finished product is completely waterproof, totally inert and fume free, super durable against wear and tear with tortoises walking and rubbing their hard shells on it, and lasts forever. The company you buy it from will help you learn how to use it and apply it correctly. After doing it a few times, I totally "get it" now, and they helped me learn. Great customer support. About $70 for the inside of a 4x8 box.

I've used non-toxic, low VOC boat paint in the past, and that worked, but it was even more expensive, lots of fumes for a few days, and it eventually wears away with heavy species likes sulcatas or large SA leopards rubbing on it. $90 for a gallon of primer, and $130 for a gallon of paint, but totally water proof.

I've heard of other members here using Flex-Seal, but I've yet to experiment with that yet. Frankly, I'm afraid of fumes in a closed space, but that fear may be due to my ignorance of the product. The Pond Shield can be used inside salt water aquariums. Its that inert and impervious to breakdown. That is the main reason I go that way. 100% non-toxic and fume free once cured after a few hours.


----------



## Sue Ann

Tom said:


> After much thought about what worked and what I wanted to improve over previous attempts, here is the latest version with a step by step pictorial on how I did it. It is time for my 2010 South African herd to move outside. They are moving into a 16x20' completely closed in enclosure. The enclosure is a wooden frame enclosed top to bottom with welded wire. It has a wire roof and the wire extends 18" down into the ground. The actual night box is 4x8x2'. I found a mini oil-filled heater to heat it with. The heater is on a thermostat and will be set to 80 for about half of the year and 70 over the warmer months.
> 
> Here is the lid. You can see the insulation in place.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is the plywood cover going over the insulation in the lid. The lid fits on top of the box and is hinged. There will be weatherstripping all around the top and the lip on the lid keeps the rain out of the box. You can see a finished lid for a second box in the background.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is the bottom. Notice the door notch and how that will fit in later.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Insulation in the bottom. All the insulation is 1.5" thick and has the shiny mylar foil side pointing to the outside. Don't know if that matters much, but thats how I did it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Insulation on the floor all covered up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here the front and back are attached. Notice the door taking shape. Since 9 animals will initially share this, and as they get older they will get bigger, I went kinda big with the door at 26x16". This way one of them won't be able to sit in the doorway and block all the others in or out, and later, when they reach adult size, they will easily fit in and out of this door.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another view of the front with the sides going up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here the side wall insulation is in place and about to be covered up. This box is also double caulked to keep out any cold drafts on those below freezing winter nights. The only air movement will be from the door, or when I open the lid.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All buttoned up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here goes the front insulation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The front insulation is all covered up here. The 2x4 blocks there will support a 2x10" water tub holding shelf. Having containers of water inside will keep the humidity up in the night box, and act as a bit of a heat sink. This technique has been working very well in my underground sulcata night box.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's a top view showing the area where the heater will live, the weather stripping in place, the door flaps, and the 2x4 in the back that the lid hinges attach to.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is the front with paint and door flaps and water shelves in place.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is the door. I will carve out the dirt where the door/ramp hits the ground so it sits flush. One "weak" spot of previous designs was the simple plywood door. I went to great time and trouble to super insulate my night boxes, but then just used thin plywood to cover the door holes. This time the door shares the same 1.5" insulation as the rest of the box. Door open:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Door Closed:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here you can see the heater installed, the metal heat shield above it, the water tubs for humidity on the shelves, and my purple shoe box that holds all my electrical stuff.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here are some of the babies enjoying their bermuda grass bedding.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is a wide view showing some of the enclosure. The empty wooden box in the lower right foreground of the pic is their 4x8' shade table/planter box. I will be filling it and planting leopard tortoise food in their in the next few days.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One more view of the same thing from the other side.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well that's it. Tell me what you think.


Tom any chance you still have these pictures available somewhere?


----------



## Tom

Sue Ann said:


> Tom any chance you still have these pictures available somewhere?


See post #428 just above this one.


----------



## Shellieru

Tom said:


> After much thought about what worked and what I wanted to improve over previous attempts, here is the latest version with a step by step pictorial on how I did it. It is time for my 2010 South African herd to move outside. They are moving into a 16x20' completely closed in enclosure. The enclosure is a wooden frame enclosed top to bottom with welded wire. It has a wire roof and the wire extends 18" down into the ground. The actual night box is 4x8x2'. I found a mini oil-filled heater to heat it with. The heater is on a thermostat and will be set to 80 for about half of the year and 70 over the warmer months.
> 
> Here is the lid. You can see the insulation in place.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is the plywood cover going over the insulation in the lid. The lid fits on top of the box and is hinged. There will be weatherstripping all around the top and the lip on the lid keeps the rain out of the box. You can see a finished lid for a second box in the background.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is the bottom. Notice the door notch and how that will fit in later.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Insulation in the bottom. All the insulation is 1.5" thick and has the shiny mylar foil side pointing to the outside. Don't know if that matters much, but thats how I did it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Insulation on the floor all covered up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here the front and back are attached. Notice the door taking shape. Since 9 animals will initially share this, and as they get older they will get bigger, I went kinda big with the door at 26x16". This way one of them won't be able to sit in the doorway and block all the others in or out, and later, when they reach adult size, they will easily fit in and out of this door.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another view of the front with the sides going up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here the side wall insulation is in place and about to be covered up. This box is also double caulked to keep out any cold drafts on those below freezing winter nights. The only air movement will be from the door, or when I open the lid.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All buttoned up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here goes the front insulation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The front insulation is all covered up here. The 2x4 blocks there will support a 2x10" water tub holding shelf. Having containers of water inside will keep the humidity up in the night box, and act as a bit of a heat sink. This technique has been working very well in my underground sulcata night box.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's a top view showing the area where the heater will live, the weather stripping in place, the door flaps, and the 2x4 in the back that the lid hinges attach to.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is the front with paint and door flaps and water shelves in place.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is the door. I will carve out the dirt where the door/ramp hits the ground so it sits flush. One "weak" spot of previous designs was the simple plywood door. I went to great time and trouble to super insulate my night boxes, but then just used thin plywood to cover the door holes. This time the door shares the same 1.5" insulation as the rest of the box. Door open:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Door Closed:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here you can see the heater installed, the metal heat shield above it, the water tubs for humidity on the shelves, and my purple shoe box that holds all my electrical stuff.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here are some of the babies enjoying their bermuda grass bedding.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is a wide view showing some of the enclosure. The empty wooden box in the lower right foreground of the pic is their 4x8' shade table/planter box. I will be filling it and planting leopard tortoise food in their in the next few days.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One more view of the same thing from the other side.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well that's it. Tell me what you think.


Why are all the pictures not available? Such a bummer! It sounds amazing!


----------



## Tom

Shellieru said:


> Why are all the pictures not available? Such a bummer! It sounds amazing!


Because tinypic shut down and that was my pic hosting site. Now we have pics downloaded directly onto the forum. Here are two night box threads for you. With pics!





Single Tortoise Night Box


I like my larger tortoises to live outside full time. My climate permits this year round with a little help. For people who live where it snows all winter, this type of box is still good for warmer weather, getting them out earlier in Spring, and keeping them out a bit later into fall. You'll...




tortoiseforum.org









Double Door Night Box


As the years have gone by and I build more of these boxes, I learn more and more each time. This one is the latest and I incorporated everything I've learned over the years. I also tried to take lots of pics so I can explain in more detail some of what is going on. It will take multiple posts to...




tortoiseforum.org


----------



## Shellieru

Tom said:


> Those water tubs only get humidity up to around 40-50%. Maybe they will be able to do more in winter when its not so hot and dry.


I can't see the pictures so can't visualize the "water shelves" idea here. But, I am always considering humidity with my leopards and am curious about what this looks like in your house set up?


----------



## Tom

Shellieru said:


> I can't see the pictures so can't visualize the "water shelves" idea here. But, I am always considering humidity with my leopards and am curious about what this looks like in your house set up?


See the post just above this one. #434.


----------



## vanessaordiales

Tom said:


> After much thought about what worked and what I wanted to improve over previous attempts, here is the latest version with a step by step pictorial on how I did it. It is time for my 2010 South African herd to move outside. They are moving into a 16x20' completely closed in enclosure. The enclosure is a wooden frame enclosed top to bottom with welded wire. It has a wire roof and the wire extends 18" down into the ground. The actual night box is 4x8x2'. I found a mini oil-filled heater to heat it with. The heater is on a thermostat and will be set to 80 for about half of the year and 70 over the warmer months.
> 
> Here is the lid. You can see the insulation in place.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is the plywood cover going over the insulation in the lid. The lid fits on top of the box and is hinged. There will be weatherstripping all around the top and the lip on the lid keeps the rain out of the box. You can see a finished lid for a second box in the background.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is the bottom. Notice the door notch and how that will fit in later.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Insulation in the bottom. All the insulation is 1.5" thick and has the shiny mylar foil side pointing to the outside. Don't know if that matters much, but thats how I did it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Insulation on the floor all covered up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here the front and back are attached. Notice the door taking shape. Since 9 animals will initially share this, and as they get older they will get bigger, I went kinda big with the door at 26x16". This way one of them won't be able to sit in the doorway and block all the others in or out, and later, when they reach adult size, they will easily fit in and out of this door.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another view of the front with the sides going up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here the side wall insulation is in place and about to be covered up. This box is also double caulked to keep out any cold drafts on those below freezing winter nights. The only air movement will be from the door, or when I open the lid.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All buttoned up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here goes the front insulation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The front insulation is all covered up here. The 2x4 blocks there will support a 2x10" water tub holding shelf. Having containers of water inside will keep the humidity up in the night box, and act as a bit of a heat sink. This technique has been working very well in my underground sulcata night box.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's a top view showing the area where the heater will live, the weather stripping in place, the door flaps, and the 2x4 in the back that the lid hinges attach to.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is the front with paint and door flaps and water shelves in place.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is the door. I will carve out the dirt where the door/ramp hits the ground so it sits flush. One "weak" spot of previous designs was the simple plywood door. I went to great time and trouble to super insulate my night boxes, but then just used thin plywood to cover the door holes. This time the door shares the same 1.5" insulation as the rest of the box. Door open:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Door Closed:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here you can see the heater installed, the metal heat shield above it, the water tubs for humidity on the shelves, and my purple shoe box that holds all my electrical stuff.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here are some of the babies enjoying their bermuda grass bedding.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is a wide view showing some of the enclosure. The empty wooden box in the lower right foreground of the pic is their 4x8' shade table/planter box. I will be filling it and planting leopard tortoise food in their in the next few days.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One more view of the same thing from the other side.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well that's it. Tell me what you think.


Hey Tom! Since tinypic is no longer a thing will you email these pictures to me please? [email protected]


----------



## Tom

vanessaordiales said:


> Hey Tom! Since tinypic is no longer a thing will you email these pictures to me please? [email protected]


How about this instead:





Single Tortoise Night Box


I like my larger tortoises to live outside full time. My climate permits this year round with a little help. For people who live where it snows all winter, this type of box is still good for warmer weather, getting them out earlier in Spring, and keeping them out a bit later into fall. You'll...




tortoiseforum.org









Double Door Night Box


As the years have gone by and I build more of these boxes, I learn more and more each time. This one is the latest and I incorporated everything I've learned over the years. I also tried to take lots of pics so I can explain in more detail some of what is going on. It will take multiple posts to...




tortoiseforum.org









Here is the 4x8 rendering of Tom's Night Box. With Exploded view.


This is a rendering I did based off of @Tom 's heated night box enclosure. Its probably not a 100% accurate. Door is offset to one side for my personal needs but can easily be moved. Let me know if you see any issues with it. Feed back appreciated. High res renderings can be downloaded here...




tortoiseforum.org









What You'll Need to Build A Night Box


I just typed up a list of the needed supplies to build a night box and thought I'd copy paste it here: For sulcatas, I make the doors 26x16". This will fit all but the largest of large males for their entire life. If you end up with one of the giants, you will eventually have to make another...




tortoiseforum.org


----------



## Tom

Pics have gone away, but here are the newer threads with newer pics showing all the details of my night box design:





Single Tortoise Night Box


I like my larger tortoises to live outside full time. My climate permits this year round with a little help. For people who live where it snows all winter, this type of box is still good for warmer weather, getting them out earlier in Spring, and keeping them out a bit later into fall. You'll...




tortoiseforum.org










Double Door Night Box


As the years have gone by and I build more of these boxes, I learn more and more each time. This one is the latest and I incorporated everything I've learned over the years. I also tried to take lots of pics so I can explain in more detail some of what is going on. It will take multiple posts to...




tortoiseforum.org










Here is the 4x8 rendering of Tom's Night Box. With Exploded view.


This is a rendering I did based off of @Tom 's heated night box enclosure. Its probably not a 100% accurate. Door is offset to one side for my personal needs but can easily be moved. Let me know if you see any issues with it. Feed back appreciated. High res renderings can be downloaded here...




tortoiseforum.org










What You'll Need to Build A Night Box


I just typed up a list of the needed supplies to build a night box and thought I'd copy paste it here: For sulcatas, I make the doors 26x16". This will fit all but the largest of large males for their entire life. If you end up with one of the giants, you will eventually have to make another...




tortoiseforum.org


----------



## Angela Clooney

@Tom I hope you still read on here. I have read through thousands of your posts we are building an outdoor box like your plans but I can't seem to figure out how to make the door into a ramp. I have EVERYTHING else done! I went through the photos that are still up and I feel like I will be guessing off of them. Please if I just missed it let me know. thank you for all your help here and how many tort lives you have changed with your knowledge is probably not even countable. Thanks again.


----------



## Sagewomyn

Tom said:


> After much thought about what worked and what I wanted to improve over previous attempts, here is the latest version with a step by step pictorial on how I did it. It is time for my 2010 South African herd to move outside. They are moving into a 16x20' completely closed in enclosure. The enclosure is a wooden frame enclosed top to bottom with welded wire. It has a wire roof and the wire extends 18" down into the ground. The actual night box is 4x8x2'. I found a mini oil-filled heater to heat it with. The heater is on a thermostat and will be set to 80 for about half of the year and 70 over the warmer months.
> 
> Here is the lid. You can see the insulation in place.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is the plywood cover going over the insulation in the lid. The lid fits on top of the box and is hinged. There will be weatherstripping all around the top and the lip on the lid keeps the rain out of the box. You can see a finished lid for a second box in the background.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is the bottom. Notice the door notch and how that will fit in later.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Insulation in the bottom. All the insulation is 1.5" thick and has the shiny mylar foil side pointing to the outside. Don't know if that matters much, but thats how I did it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Insulation on the floor all covered up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here the front and back are attached. Notice the door taking shape. Since 9 animals will initially share this, and as they get older they will get bigger, I went kinda big with the door at 26x16". This way one of them won't be able to sit in the doorway and block all the others in or out, and later, when they reach adult size, they will easily fit in and out of this door.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another view of the front with the sides going up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here the side wall insulation is in place and about to be covered up. This box is also double caulked to keep out any cold drafts on those below freezing winter nights. The only air movement will be from the door, or when I open the lid.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All buttoned up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here goes the front insulation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The front insulation is all covered up here. The 2x4 blocks there will support a 2x10" water tub holding shelf. Having containers of water inside will keep the humidity up in the night box, and act as a bit of a heat sink. This technique has been working very well in my underground sulcata night box.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's a top view showing the area where the heater will live, the weather stripping in place, the door flaps, and the 2x4 in the back that the lid hinges attach to.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is the front with paint and door flaps and water shelves in place.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is the door. I will carve out the dirt where the door/ramp hits the ground so it sits flush. One "weak" spot of previous designs was the simple plywood door. I went to great time and trouble to super insulate my night boxes, but then just used thin plywood to cover the door holes. This time the door shares the same 1.5" insulation as the rest of the box. Door open:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Door Closed:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here you can see the heater installed, the metal heat shield above it, the water tubs for humidity on the shelves, and my purple shoe box that holds all my electrical stuff.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here are some of the babies enjoying their bermuda grass bedding.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is a wide view showing some of the enclosure. The empty wooden box in the lower right foreground of the pic is their 4x8' shade table/planter box. I will be filling it and planting leopard tortoise food in their in the next few days.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One more view of the same thing from the other side.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well that's it. Tell me what you think.


Can you please repost the pictures of your shed.


----------



## Tom

Sagewomyn said:


> Can you please repost the pictures of your shed.


Here are the two most current versions:






Single Tortoise Night Box


I like my larger tortoises to live outside full time. My climate permits this year round with a little help. For people who live where it snows all winter, this type of box is still good for warmer weather, getting them out earlier in Spring, and keeping them out a bit later into fall. You'll...




tortoiseforum.org









Double Door Night Box


As the years have gone by and I build more of these boxes, I learn more and more each time. This one is the latest and I incorporated everything I've learned over the years. I also tried to take lots of pics so I can explain in more detail some of what is going on. It will take multiple posts to...




tortoiseforum.org


----------

