# Substrate question for Red Foot Tortoise!!



## EddieW (Mar 9, 2012)

Hi all, 

I currently have my two 3 month old red foots in a 75 gallon rubbermaid stock tank with 1/2 of the enclosure in cypress mulch and sphagnum moss and the other half with organic top soil. 

My question is whether of not it would be a good idea to keep the entire enclosure with just the soil? Pros and Cons to this? 

I'm already having to treat both the tortoises for mild shell rot because of the sphagnum moss holding to much water.


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## Zergy (Mar 9, 2012)

I myself am new to keeping a red foot, so please take anything I do with a grain of salt.

My tort is a little over 3 months old and his indoor enclosure is a 40gallon stock tank with coco coir mixed with cypress mulch with sphagnum moss on top on the moist hide side. The humidity is 70% by hand spraying with warm water.

The outdoor enclosure is still a work in progress, but it is top soil right now. I will also mix some cypress mulch in it as well.

The cypress mulch seems drier on the surface to touch then the sphagnum moss part, but the moss side is where the heat lamp is so it isn't sopping wet either. I can push my finger into the substrate and feel dampness and not pools of water.

Sorry to hear your torts are showing signs of shell rot. What does that look like? I have only had my tort a few days.


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## Jacqui (Mar 9, 2012)

I suggest, just giving it a try and seeing how you and your tortoises like it.  Each of us can give you our own personal pros and cons, but really nothing beats trying it out for yourself. After all, your tortoises are not the same as mine and you do not live in my house, so your experiences will not be the same. I know I have several enclosures set up with different substrates, constantly checking to see what works best for me and for each animal.


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## EddieW (Mar 9, 2012)

Thanks guys. I might give it a try then. I just wanted to make sure there weren't any major glaring reasons for why not to go with an all soil enclosure.


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## Madkins007 (Mar 9, 2012)

I've done all-soil, and had mixed results. In my smaller habitats, like yours, it was mostly just muddy and messy. In a larger indoor habitat (4'x9'), I set up a 'bioactive substrate' (https://sites.google.com/site/tortoiselibrary/the-work-shop/substrates-1 ) and that worked out great. You may be able to set up the bioactive elements in a smaller habitat, but it does not seem to work as well for me.

If your cypress is causing dampness issues, you may need to keep it less wet, or heat it with a waterproof cable, or make it thicker so the top layer can stay drier.


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## TORTEXPERT (May 21, 2012)

Ok i have 2 hatchlings since i breed them and if anyone asks i sell them to a reptile store i bought them from, i bought them for my son and he loves them and you need them to be on cyprus mulch because it is from where they come from and if you didn't know do not feed them iceberg or spinach because it is basically all water. And they can eat mealworms not as daily though as a treat i am an expert at them i have had red footed tortoises for 10 years and they get about 18 inches so i house mine outside but i have a 200 gal tank for winter unless you are housing them outside use cyprus mulch or shavings i use shavings. mulch is not as good in my opinion. and if you put crickets in hand feed them they will eat them and you were probably like what they eat crickets and never put sphagnum moss in it will rot as you learned. and if you put soil in do not they do dig under and it wil collapse on them when you spray the tank. So main idea is CYPRUS SHAVINGS


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## Yvonne G (May 21, 2012)

Hi TORTEXPERT:

Won't you take a few moments to start a new thread in the "Introductions" section and tell us a bit about yourself and your tortoises?


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## Madkins007 (May 21, 2012)

TORTEXPERT said:


> Ok i have 2 hatchlings since i breed them and if anyone asks i sell them to a reptile store i bought them from, i bought them for my son and he loves them and you need them to be on cyprus mulch because it is from where they come from and if you didn't know do not feed them iceberg or spinach because it is basically all water. And they can eat mealworms not as daily though as a treat i am an expert at them i have had red footed tortoises for 10 years and they get about 18 inches so i house mine outside but i have a 200 gal tank for winter unless you are housing them outside use cyprus mulch or shavings i use shavings. mulch is not as good in my opinion. and if you put crickets in hand feed them they will eat them and you were probably like what they eat crickets and never put sphagnum moss in it will rot as you learned. and if you put soil in do not they do dig under and it wil collapse on them when you spray the tank. So main idea is CYPRUS SHAVINGS



Welcome! i found your comments very interesting!

I don't worry a lot about Iceberg lettuce. it is indeed mostly water, but it is also high in nitrogen, and is a useful 'filler' to help them feel full without adding a lot of calories, etc. 

Spinach, on the other hand, would be a GREAT food- high in calcium, iron, and fiber- if it was not so high in oxalates. Oxalates bind with calcium and are often blamed for causing bladder stones, etc. (which is probably more due to dehydration.) A lot of people don't worry about the fairly moderate level of oxalates in spinach, and use this as part of a varied diet with no apparent issues.

I agree that mealworms should be a sometimes snack because the shell is so indigestible, but crickets are an interesting choice. There is not a lot of nutrition there unless you gut-load them, but they certainly are an option. More common live options seem to be various larvae, slugs, etc. although many forego live foods and use egg, chicken, etc.

I've run several indoor habitats for red-footeds with a soil-based mix, but never had mine tunnel in. They certainly 'nestle' in a lot, but never seen any sign of mine digging. That may be due to the sorts of hides I offer. Would you share more about yours digging?


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