# Looking for sulcata female



## Rynan (Feb 12, 2022)

Hi guys, I'm from LA California. I'm looking to get a sulcata tortoise but I only want a female since I really like that they tend to be less aggressive and I really like the flat shell look for some reason. I read that it's almost impossible to accurately determine the gender when they are young. So I'm probably looking for a 3 yr old? I've tried looking on adoptapet and all that but couldn't find any. And I read that this breed is so common and overbred, so I'm very unlikely to get them from random tortoise breeders on craigslist or something similar.

Something about myself, I've always had pets growing up. My family still have 2 dogs, 2 cats, a red ear, and a stick bug. With the recent passing of my 16 year old dog, I really want a companion that lives longer. Plus I got the okay from my lady so if anyone has any advice or pointers regarding where I could find a female tortoise is appreciated.


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## wellington (Feb 12, 2022)

On another thread of a sulcata tortoise being rehomed, you said you had no yard space? A sulcata needs to live outside when it gets around 10 inches long. They grow fast so at the size it will be to know if it's a female, it likely will be the size it will need to be to live outside. 
Maybe you should consider a Russian or Hermanns they stay small. They should still be able to live outside during the warm weather but many don't and stay small enough that a proper inside 4x8 enclosure or larger can be accomplished.


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## Rynan (Feb 12, 2022)

wellington said:


> On another thread of a sulcata tortoise being rehomed, you said you had no yard space? A sulcata needs to live outside when it gets around 10 inches long. They grow fast so at the size it will be to know if it's a female, it likely will be the size it will need to be to live outside.
> Maybe you should consider a Russian or Hermanns they stay small. They should still be able to live outside during the warm weather but many don't and stay small enough that a proper inside 4x8 enclosure or larger can be accomplished.


I believe I said something like "not having enough yard space", not "not having a yard". Thought a 30lb sulcata would be the size of half a husky, silly me. Did a little search and found out a 30lb could be around 14"? So where we are should be fine. Just out of curiosity, how fast do they grow after they reach 10". I remember watching a video mentioning it took 10+ years for a Japanese guy's tortoise to grow to 10"+, but after that, the tortoise just kept growing and growing. Think his tortoise was 40+ yrs? And it was quite huge.


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## wellington (Feb 12, 2022)

A 30 lb sulcata is not full grown. 
@Tom can give you a better idea on the size of a full grown female sulcata.


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## TeamZissou (Feb 12, 2022)

They all grow at different rates depending on how good the conditions are. Here are a couple of threads for reference.

9" = 5 lbs
17" = 26 lbs






Donald is One Year Old


Donald hatched during the first week of August 2019, not sure of the exact day though. So for his first Birthday I gave him a cactus feeder He loved it and ate 3 pads today along with everything else.He measures a tad under 9 inches and weighed in today at 4 pounds 7.7oz




tortoiseforum.org










Donald is 2 Years Old


He is doing fine. We didn't do anything special to celebrate the occasion, he's spoiled enough already. Some pics from yesterday and today.He is 16 3/4 inches and weighs 26 pounds 10 oz He must be content where he is. The barrier at one end of his enclosure is just a 5/4 x 6 decking board. and...




tortoiseforum.org





You might consider looking for a fully grown redfoot, which would be more reasonable size.


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## Maggie3fan (Feb 12, 2022)

Sulcata are like feral cats on the West Coast. A 30 pound tort is about 3 to 4 years. I have a female rescue that is about 40 pounds but we have no idea how old she is. My previous Sulcata was over 100 pounds and 17 years old. If you don't have yard for a big tort get a Russian or something. But don't get a Sulcata just to find another home for it in a few years. That's stressful and mean to the animal. It takes a special place and keeper for Sulcata...here's an old photo of my Sulcata..

.and you might consider a Redfoot...awesome torts...


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## Yvonne G (Feb 12, 2022)

Females can be just as pushy and grouchy as males. I had a full grown female here for a while and if you didn't keep your eye on her you would end up with a pretty sore shin after she rammed you.

While my Dudley, 100+lb sulcata is just as sweet as can be. (insert tongue in cheek smiley face here!)


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## Tom (Feb 12, 2022)

Rynan said:


> Hi guys, I'm from LA California. I'm looking to get a sulcata tortoise but I only want a female since I really like that they tend to be less aggressive and I really like the flat shell look for some reason. I read that it's almost impossible to accurately determine the gender when they are young. So I'm probably looking for a 3 yr old? I've tried looking on adoptapet and all that but couldn't find any. And I read that this breed is so common and overbred, so I'm very unlikely to get them from random tortoise breeders on craigslist or something similar.
> 
> Something about myself, I've always had pets growing up. My family still have 2 dogs, 2 cats, a red ear, and a stick bug. With the recent passing of my 16 year old dog, I really want a companion that lives longer. Plus I got the okay from my lady so if anyone has any advice or pointers regarding where I could find a female tortoise is appreciated.


Hello and welcome to the forum. You've got some misconceptions about sulcatas, so I want to help. Here are a few nuggets of info for you:
1. Males sulcatas are only aggressive toward other male sulcatas. They aren't aggressive toward people, and they tend to be more curious, bold and interactive than females. Better pets, in other words. Females are usually nice too, but in general they are more reserved and less interested in what their people are doing.
2. People seldom part with females because they are highly sought after. Males have to be kept alone, but you can usually keep a group of females with no problem, and many people also want females for breeding.
3. The species is not over bred. All breeders sell all their babies with no problem. The demand matches, or slightly outpaces the supply.
4. Flat shells? Male and female carapaces look the same. Females have a flat plastron, while males get concave, but that is underneath and seldom seen, hopefully.
5. They need to be around 16-17 inches to accurately sex them. Even at that size, some are late bloomers. The secondary sexual characteristics that make it so easy to ID the sex of adults, sometimes are not as obvious until they get some size and age on them.
6. Males usually top out at 100-130 pounds, but sometimes double this if Sudan sulcata genes are present. Females usually top out at 60-80 pounds, with rare exception getting larger. Either sex will usually reach this size at around 10 years. I say usually, because there are many many variables, and almost none of the babies hatched annually are started correctly by the breeders or sellers, and those breeders and sellers then tell their customers the wrong care info. Because of these facts, many of them die, or grow very slowly.
7. Sulcatas need large spaces to roam, and they need these spaces to be free of dogs and human activities. Dogs are probably the second most common killer of pet tortoises, next to dehydration. The tortoise will also eat the dog poop if they share an area, and dogs will often eat the tortoise poop. This is not good for either of them. Minimum space needed for a single adult sulcata is around 50x50 feet. That is for their enclosure, not the entire yard.
8. A sulcata will turn a beautiful well landscaped back yard in to a bare dirt desert wasteland in a matter of weeks or months. And that is if they don't dig, which some do and some don't. They are VERY destructive. If this is not okay with your or your lady, you might consider another species.
9. If you get a juvenile or adult that is more than about 10 inches in length, you'll need to house it outside full time. To do this you will need a temperature controlled tortoise night house. Dog houses and most of what you see online is ineffective and usually dangerous or damaging to the tortoise. Igloos with a CHE or heat lamp being a prime example. These don't effectively keep the tortoise warm, and the tortoise usually ends up with carapace damage from these wrong heat sources. You will have to build your own night box, and this needs to be done BEFORE you bring home a tortoise. Like this:





Single Tortoise Night Box


I like my larger tortoises to live outside full time. My climate permits this year round with a little help. For people who live where it snows all winter, this type of box is still good for warmer weather, getting them out earlier in Spring, and keeping them out a bit later into fall. You'll...




tortoiseforum.org





In closing, sulcatas are great tortoises. They have fantastic personalities, and I've loved them since I first laid eyes on them in 1991. But they are the wrong species for almost everyone. They get huge, they are destructive, they eat a ton of food every day, they dig giant caverns and tunnels in your yard and under your neighbors yard, they need huge spaces, they destroy plants and anything else they can get to, you have to keep them warm all year long at great expense, they will destroy and knock down walls and stucco, push through fences, cause all sorts of mayhem that you can't imagine, and god forbid you ever have to move them. Better call a couple of young strong friends for that.

The right owner for a sulcata owns a large property or ranch in a warm climate, has a large space that can be set aside and dedicated to the tortoise, has the resources to build the correct type of enclosure walls and a heated night box, and doesn't mind the enclosure area being wrecked, dug up, and turned to dirt. If you could comfortably house a horse or a large goat at your place, then a sulcata would probably be just fine. If not, then a different, more manageable species might be better for you and your lady.

Questions are welcome.


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## Rynan (Feb 12, 2022)

Tom said:


> Hello and welcome to the forum. You've got some misconceptions about sulcatas, so I want to help. Here are a few nuggets of info for you:
> 1. Males sulcatas are only aggressive toward other male sulcatas. They aren't aggressive toward people, and they tend to be more curious, bold and interactive than females. Better pets, in other words. Females are usually nice too, but in general they are more reserved and less interested in what their people are doing.
> 2. People seldom part with females because they are highly sought after. Males have to be kept alone, but you can usually keep a group of females with no problem, and many people also want females for breeding.
> 3. The species is not over bred. All breeders sell all their babies with no problem. The demand matches, or slightly outpaces the supply.
> ...


This is probably by far the best heads-up I've read regarding sulcatas. That was very informational, thank you.


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## Rynan (Feb 12, 2022)

@wellington, @Tom, @maggie3fan, solid advice and suggestions. Maybe sulcatas is not a good fit as a first tortoise. I know yard size won't be an issue towards the summer for me since we are planning to buy a bigger place. But I never really considered how destructive a sulcata could be down the line. The other breeds mentioned seem to be better for my current place and future place. Also, I just found a post regarding the poop size, which is something I've forgot to consider as well. I'm sure it's not something I can solve by just buying a litter bot ?... I'm glad I found this forum rather than just getting one from a local pet reptile shop. Will look into the other breeds mentioned. Thanks


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## Warren (Feb 12, 2022)

Tom said:


> Hello and welcome to the forum. You've got some misconceptions about sulcatas, so I want to help. Here are a few nuggets of info for you:
> 1. Males sulcatas are only aggressive toward other male sulcatas. They aren't aggressive toward people, and they tend to be more curious, bold and interactive than females. Better pets, in other words. Females are usually nice too, but in general they are more reserved and less interested in what their people are doing.
> 2. People seldom part with females because they are highly sought after. Males have to be kept alone, but you can usually keep a group of females with no problem, and many people also want females for breeding.
> 3. The species is not over bred. All breeders sell all their babies with no problem. The demand matches, or slightly outpaces the supply.
> ...


I like your picture of the Tortoise coming threw the wall, reminds me of the movie The Shinning. When Jack Nicholson stuck his head out and said "Here's Johnny". LOL!


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## Tom (Feb 12, 2022)

Rynan said:


> This is probably by far the best heads-up I've read regarding sulcatas. That was very informational, thank you.


You are welcome!

Regarding poop size, I had a 140 pound Great Dane living next to one of my tortoise pens that housed a 60 pound sulcata. Day after day, the tortoise turds were at least double the size and volume of the dog turds.

Our climate here is good for so many species. I'm sure you will find one that appeals to you, and we will be happy to share what we know about it when the time comes. Just be aware the FB and Youtube are full of wrong info.


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## Maggie3fan (Feb 12, 2022)

Recently there was one of those stupid posts on FB "have you ever been chased by a wild animal?"...my reply...


Rynan said:


> This is probably by far the best heads-up I've read regarding sulcatas. That was very informational, thank you.





Tom said:


> Hello and welcome to the forum. You've got some misconceptions about sulcatas, so I want to help. Here are a few nuggets of info for you:
> 1. Males sulcatas are only aggressive toward other male sulcatas. They aren't aggressive toward people, and they tend to be more curious, bold and interactive than females. Better pets, in other words. Females are usually nice too, but in general they are more reserved and less interested in what their people are doing.
> 2. People seldom part with females because they are highly sought after. Males have to be kept alone, but you can usually keep a group of females with no problem, and many people also want females for breeding.
> 3. The species is not over bred. All breeders sell all their babies with no problem. The demand matches, or slightly outpaces the supply.
> ...


Holy crap Tom! Why would anybody want to keep a beast like that????


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## Tom (Feb 12, 2022)

Warren said:


> I like your picture of the Tortoise coming threw the wall, reminds me of the movie The Shinning. When Jack Nicholson stuck his head out and said "Here's Johnny". LOL!


Someone else posted that pic here on the forum. I just saved iron my computer to show people what they are capable of.


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## Rynan (Feb 12, 2022)

Still leaning toward a female sulcata since they are smaller than male usually and I know I will have the space as they grow, really seem like a decent choice. But there's virtually no way to identify their gender when they are on the younger side right?


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## Tom (Feb 12, 2022)

Rynan said:


> Still leaning toward a female sulcata since they are smaller than male usually and I know I will have the space as they grow, really seem like a decent choice. But there's virtually no way to identify their gender when they are on the younger side right?


A female will destroy your yard just as much as a male. The worst diggers I've had have all been female.

The only way to sex them prior to the onset of maturity is through surgical sexing. Its an expensive process, and not practical for most people, but it is possible to do. Its an arthroscopic surgery where an experienced vet goes into the body cavity through a small incision and physically examines the gonads through a scope.

The Galapagos Tortoise Alliance is currently working to develop a way to sex immature tortoises with a drop of blood. If it works, we might also figure out how to make it work for other species.


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## Maro2Bear (Feb 13, 2022)

Let’s talk poop! Natural fertilizer. I usually scoop our Sullys very large NON smelly turds and add to all of our garden pots. Add to our red worm composting bin or toss in the lawn to get mulched when I mow. One of the benefits of a reptile that eats pretty much grass & hay. 

Now let‘s talk size. Our Sully will be 8 years old this May and I’m pretty positive she is a female. (Never any flashing) Way too heavy for me to easily lift & weigh. That said, here’s the growth/weight chart we religiously kept & updated. I guess I should attempt a new 2022 weigh in. So…male or female - they get rather large & heavy & have a mind of their own.


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## wellington (Feb 13, 2022)

Rynan said:


> Still leaning toward a female sulcata since they are smaller than male usually and I know I will have the space as they grow, really seem like a decent choice. But there's virtually no way to identify their gender when they are on the younger side right?


The size you would need to confirm a female will not be small or give you time to get a new place in a couple years.
Before making a big mistake why not wait until you have your own place or if it's for sure going to be in a 2 or 3 year span then buy a hatchling and take a gamble on the sex. The concaved shell of a Male is really no reason to not want a Male. Besides you don't see the concaved bottom shell anyway.
If you can't wait and insist on a female then I highly suggest a smaller species that you actually have room for. 
You wouldn't want to live in a room as small as a bathroom or never get outside to roam in a spacious yard.


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## Rynan (Feb 13, 2022)

I think there's a misunderstanding. I have my own place and I'm buying a new house in a couple of months. I don't understand where the notion of not moving for a few years coming from. We have a yard, it used to be a yard with a pool. But it was filled and built a duplex upon. That still leaves us with some yard, it's just not huge like a farm or a barn.


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## Maggie3fan (Feb 13, 2022)

I have had both sexes of Sulcata and the biggest difference is that the females are less personable in my opinion. Sulcata as a species are almost exactly what Tom described, stubborn, destructive, sneaky, so hard to handle. They are also loving, intelligent, funny, goofy, curious, nosey and I am their #1 fan....You can't miss for an exciting tortoise and one that keeps you hopping. Seriously, there is not much difference between the sexes of Sulcata...


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## Maggie3fan (Feb 13, 2022)

Yvonne G said:


> Females can be just as pushy and grouchy as males. I had a full grown female here for a while and if you didn't keep your eye on her you would end up with a pretty sore shin after she rammed you.
> 
> While my Dudley, 100+lb sulcata is just as sweet as can be. (insert tongue in cheek smiley face here!)


Son of a Bit*h! That tortoise is mean as hell, and has chased me more then once. The reason she calls him 'sweet' is because she never goes in his pen so she doesn't get chased...This is the infamous *Dudley Gomez* California born and bred, his score...Dudley catches 4...Maggie -0


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## wellington (Feb 13, 2022)

Rynan said:


> I think there's a misunderstanding. I have my own place and I'm buying a new house in a couple of months. I don't understand where the notion of not moving for a few years coming from. We have a yard, it used to be a yard with a pool. But it was filled and built a duplex upon. That still leaves us with some yard, it's just not huge like a farm or a barn.


This is where the yard space came from. Your own post. 
The moving in a couple years may have been confused with someone else. 
Post in thread 'Free 30lb. Sulcata 15 yr.' https://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/free-30lb-sulcata-15-yr.196177/post-1993205


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## Rynan (Feb 13, 2022)

wellington said:


> This is where the yard space came from. Your own post.
> The moving in a couple years may have been confused with someone else.
> Post in thread 'Free 30lb. Sulcata 15 yr.' https://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/free-30lb-sulcata-15-yr.196177/post-1993205


I thought I cleared that up in the earlier post, I thought a 30lb tort would be the size of a mini poodle or terrier or half a husky. So I thought the yard might not be enough, but upon research, 30lb didn't seem that big.


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## wellington (Feb 13, 2022)

Rynan said:


> I thought I cleared that up in the earlier post, I thought a 30lb tort would be the size of a mini poodle or terrier or half a husky. So I thought the yard might not be enough, but upon research, 30lb didn't seem that big.


And 30 pounds is not a full grown sulcata as has also been cleard up but you keep wanting to get a female which means it has to be of good size. If you are actually moving in a couple of months then keep looking for a female sulcata. In your area it shouldn't be too hard to find one. On the other hand, if you wait until you actually move, build what is need for a sully, it would be much easier.


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## Rynan (Feb 14, 2022)

Hey guys, I've seen some people that keep their tortoise in a large kennel, that can't be good for them right? I was thinking of at least fencing an enclosure with the left over bricks and cinder blocks from when we removed the pool. Or, we have an above ground garden bed that's roughly 30 ft x 4 ft with nothing but dirt and some tree stumps. I was thinking just let that be an enclosure. What sounds good? Our front yard is still a pretty good size that I can let the tort roam around in. I'm not dead set on sulcatas, just leaning towards them.


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## Rynan (Feb 14, 2022)

Just met up with a sulcata breeder today. I feel like he was spouting nothing but bullcrap. First of all, his sulcata babies were packed in a maybe 10 gallon tank enclosure? These sulcatas were about half a palm's size, and these sulcata babies were dirty from head to toe. Is that normal? And he was spouting some nonsense like you can tell the gender even if they were babies by looking at the shell curve. If it's more curved, it's female. Really?? Never seen that on any posts or site. Another way to tell their gender when they are babies is by looking at the pattern to see if it's clockwise or counter clockwise??? Everywhere online people say tail length, plastron, or the v shape near the tails. Also, is it normal for 4-8 months old sulcata babies to squirt green sludge when handled? I feel like those babies are not healthy. Any advice?


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## TheLastGreen (Feb 14, 2022)

Rynan said:


> Just met up with a sulcata breeder today. I feel like he was spouting nothing but bullcrap. First of all, his sulcata babies were packed in a maybe 10 gallon tank enclosure? These sulcatas were about half a palm's size, and these sulcata babies were dirty from head to toe. Is that normal? And he was spouting some nonsense like you can tell the gender even if they were babies by looking at the shell curve. If it's more curved, it's female. Really?? Never seen that on any posts or site. Another way to tell their gender when they are babies is by looking at the pattern to see if it's clockwise or counter clockwise??? Everywhere online people say tail length, plastron, or the v shape near the tails. Also, is it normal for 4-8 months old sulcata babies to squirt green sludge when handled? I feel like those babies are not healthy. Any advice?


Those babies are by far not healthy.
If babies are started wrong like that, then they have a good chance to not grow properly and die shortly after.
It's known as hatchling failure syndrome.
I recommend you burn that bridge and run for the hills.
If you're looking for a hatchling I recommend @Tom , he's also in Southern California and raises them stellar. I'm not sure if he has right now, but I'm sure he knows of someone else


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## TheLastGreen (Feb 14, 2022)

Rynan said:


> Hey guys, I've seen some people that keep their tortoise in a large kennel, that can't be good for them right? I was thinking of at least fencing an enclosure with the left over bricks and cinder blocks from when we removed the pool. Or, we have an above ground garden bed that's roughly 30 ft x 4 ft with nothing but dirt and some tree stumps. I was thinking just let that be an enclosure. What sounds good? Our front yard is still a pretty good size that I can let the tort roam around in. I'm not dead set on sulcatas, just leaning towards them.


The large space sounds good, it is recommended that you plant grass for your tort to eat.
If it is a baby you'll need to keep him inside for the time being





Closed "Chambers"


Been meaning to do this one for a while now... Over the years I have kept a lot of reptiles in a lot of different ways. I've learned a lot of stuff about a lot of species. Since finding and joining this forum almost two years ago, I've learned a TON more. Now I'm not just stumbling around...




www.tortoiseforum.org




As @Tom will say, dog kennels don't work for torts, you'll need to make this yourself





Single Tortoise Night Box


I like my larger tortoises to live outside full time. My climate permits this year round with a little help. For people who live where it snows all winter, this type of box is still good for warmer weather, getting them out earlier in Spring, and keeping them out a bit later into fall. You'll...




www.tortoiseforum.org


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