# Can pyramid females lay fertile eggs?



## jskahn (Sep 23, 2014)

The last thread got me thinking. I have had a couple of them, never lay. I understand each one is different, but I feel that whatever diet misshaped them, may have also effected their reproduction. Has anybody had badly pyramid shaped females lay fertile eggs?


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## wellington (Sep 23, 2014)

If they couldnt,there wouldn't be any tortoises today or very few. Because the humid method is so knew, only about five years or so, most tortoises of adult age is pyramided,


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## ascott (Sep 23, 2014)

The "humid method" is not only a new concept.....and I mean no disrespect when saying this....it has been a "factor" in tortoise care for some time....hell, the tortoise have known this for some time


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## FLINTUS (Sep 24, 2014)

wellington said:


> If they couldnt,there wouldn't be any tortoises today or very few. Because the humid method is so knew, only about five years or so, most tortoises of adult age is pyramided,


Not true at all, many people were promoting the humid method a longer time ago, but not widely accepted. And despite that, most tortoises imported during 'the early days' of mass tortoise keeping were close to adulthood, so they did not pyramid as they weren't growing much despite generally poor care. Therefore, most adults had smooth shells in captivity-in fact, I'd bet that more tortoises as a % were smoother then than now- and so if they had the right nutrients, they could lay eggs. There is some association between pyramiding and problems with egg-laying, mainly problems with the egg becoming stuck as the shell is denser.


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## wellington (Sep 24, 2014)

FLINTUS said:


> Not true at all, many people were promoting the humid method a longer time ago, but not widely accepted. And despite that, most tortoises imported during 'the early days' of mass tortoise keeping were close to adulthood, so they did not pyramid as they weren't growing much despite generally poor care. Therefore, most adults had smooth shells in captivity-in fact, I'd bet that more tortoises as a % were smoother then than now- and so if they had the right nutrients, they could lay eggs. There is some association between pyramiding and problems with egg-laying, mainly problems with the egg becoming stuck as the shell is denser.



It's too bad it wasn't excepted. Before finding this forum, I have not seen many, if any, smooth tortoises. In fact, I thought they were suppose to be pyramided/bumpy. So hard to believe that most tortosies producing are not pyramided. Not that I don't believe you, I just have not seen any, even from the most experienced tortoise members here.


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## Jacqui (Sep 24, 2014)

It would depend a lot on just have severe the pyramiding would be, what was the cause of it, when and if the cause was corrected, if it also has MBD along with the pyramiding, among other things. Some times they are not even able to pass the egg because of how their shells have grown (some even have problems with passing their waste materials). As said above the quality of the egg shell may also be an issue... either too thick or even too thin of walls. The better the females health and care, the better the chances of healthy eggs. Often it's better for the female to never be in with a male to keep the chances of producing any eggs lower for her own well being.


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## jskahn (Sep 24, 2014)

I didn't want to get into the humidity thing. I was trying to see just how pyramid shaped a female could be, and lay fertile eggs. I have been keeping and breeding tortoises and turtles for over 50 years. By luck, I just about always given hatchling tortoises a damp hide, with sphagnum moss. Most of my tortoises grew normal, but not all.When I moved to AZ, 24 years ago, I started keeping more tortoises outside. After tortoises were about 3".they were outside in the dry AZ air. I would hose them down about 2 times a week, and keep their hide damp. At that time, I changed their diet to mainly Pretty Pet or Mazuri Tortoise food, and natural grasses. I have raised 3 generations of Greek Tortoises , with no pyramiding.Also , Marginateds , Leopards, etc. I have a group of Sri Lankin Stars, I have raised from hatchlings, and even though I thought, from pictures I had seen, that are normally they pyramid. All 7 of mine are perfect.So, it is not just humidity, proper diet is also very important.
Joe


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## Yourlocalpoet (Sep 24, 2014)

jskahn said:


> I didn't want to get into the humidity thing. I was trying to see just how pyramid shaped a female could be, and lay fertile eggs. I have been keeping and breeding tortoises and turtles for over 50 years. By luck, I just about always given hatchling tortoises a damp hide, with sphagnum moss. Most of my tortoises grew normal, but not all.When I moved to AZ, 24 years ago, I started keeping more tortoises outside. After tortoises were about 3".they were outside in the dry AZ air. I would hose them down about 2 times a week, and keep their hide damp. At that time, I changed their diet to mainly Pretty Pet or Mazuri Tortoise food, and natural grasses. I have raised 3 generations of Greek Tortoises , with no pyramiding.Also , Marginateds , Leopards, etc. I have a group of Sri Lankin Stars, I have raised from hatchlings, and even though I thought, from pictures I had seen, that are normally they pyramid. All 7 of mine are perfect.So, it is not just humidity, proper diet is also very important.
> Joe



I don't have anymore insight into this to the others that have posted, but would love to see your tortoises, especially your stars. Have you got a photo thread? 



Sent from my iPhone using Tortoise Forum


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## jskahn (Sep 24, 2014)

I am one of those rare people that are computer ignorant. I don't know how to post pix on this forum. That is also why I do not have a pic in my profile.


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## Yourlocalpoet (Sep 24, 2014)

jskahn said:


> I am one of those rare people that are computer ignorant. I don't know how to post pix on this forum. That is also why I do not have a pic in my profile.



There's always time to learn. Everyday's a school day, Joe. 



Sent from my iPhone using Tortoise Forum


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## jskahn (Sep 24, 2014)

It is odd. Just tonight a rescue female that is quite pyramid, laid 4 eggs for the first time for me. We will see what happens.
Joe


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## leigti (Sep 24, 2014)

jskahn said:


> I am one of those rare people that are computer ignorant. I don't know how to post pix on this forum. That is also why I do not have a pic in my profile.


Do you have an iPhone? I find it much easier to do things from the app as compared to on the computer myself. And if I can do it believe me anybody can


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## jskahn (Sep 25, 2014)

Thanks for the suggestion, but again, believe it or not, I am one of the few people that only use their phone as a phone. I can email pix though.
Joe


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