# blood on my tortoise shell



## Athcc (Apr 6, 2019)

I found some blood in my tortoise shell this morning. I want to know why and how to treat it. 

please help me. [emoji26][emoji26]


these two pics from both sides.


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## Lyn W (Apr 6, 2019)

Hi I'm not really sure what you should do but some more information may help other members help you sooner rather than later.
Is he kept with any other tortoises?
Do you have a dog or is your tortoise kept somewhere where predators could find him?
Anything on his plastron underneath? 
Can you post pics of his enclosure?
@Tom @Yvonne G @deadheadvet


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## Athcc (Apr 6, 2019)

Lyn W said:


> Hi I'm not really sure what you should do but some more information may help other members help you sooner rather than later.
> Is he kept with any other tortoises?
> Do you have a dog or is your tortoise kept somewhere where predators could find him?
> Anything on his plastron underneath?
> ...


yes I have two tortoises. this is tha smaller one. And I sometimes catch the bigger one hitting this with his body. but the shell never looked liked this. in the early morning I set them free in the yard but in the afternoon I get them inside because it's too hot in the summer it's around 33-39 degrees. 

now I have them in a small box. I am planning to design a wooden enclosure for them. 

I was thinking if I should separate them or something.


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## Lyn W (Apr 6, 2019)

Yes definitely separate them as soon as possible. That box is far too small even for one!

What you have seen is bullying behaviour and has probably been going on for some time in the form of following, staring, nudging and now barging.

The advice is never to keep 2 tortoises together because one becomes dominant and bullies the others and you should only have a small group if they have a huge space so that they can avoid each other.
Tortoises are territorial and don't like any competition for food, space or basking spots etc.
I think the injured tort has been bullied and has been having a pretty miserable time. It is probably really stressed as well as injured.
The chances are the poor tort has been constantly barged which has cracked the shell and if I were you I would see a vet as soon as possible to help it.


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## Lyn W (Apr 6, 2019)

They also look like different species and you should never mix species, they have different care needs and could also pass on diseases to each other.

Is that their only home?

Do they have an outside enclosure?
Please find the caresheets for your torts which you will find in their species section and read those carefully.
Also look at the Enclosures thread for ideas on how to house them.
Ask as many questions as you need, members here want to help people have happy and healthy torts.


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## JoesMum (Apr 6, 2019)

I agree with Lyn. Separate them - immediately and permanently. 

Read the TFO care sheets and compare them with your setup. That box isn’t suitable for one tortoise, let alone two.


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## Lyn W (Apr 6, 2019)

Do you have a reptile vet near you?


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## Yvonne G (Apr 6, 2019)

The blood you're seeing is from the other tortoise ramming this one. They should each be set up in their own enclosure (preferably OUTSIDE), and the enclosure needs to be much bigger than what you're showing in the picture. They're being kept in a much too small area. No wonder the one is ramming the other.

You can clean off the area then apply a bit of first aid ointment, much like you would do if you were treating your own skinned knee.


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## Athcc (Apr 6, 2019)

I just got them actually. I bought them from a store and the put like 50 one in the same space and inside the store. and they all were in a y codndition. and they just feed them lettuce. and little to no sunlight just a small heatlamp. 
I let them outside in the house yard most of the time. but some time it's too hot ar too cold so I put them inside. 

what is the perfect size for the enclosure? 

I want to make one outside and one inside. and after what I heard from you I'll make there own separate places.

and I think the main problem that the shell is weak in the first place.


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## Ben02 (Apr 6, 2019)

Athcc said:


> I just got them actually. I bought them from a store and the put like 50 one in the same space and inside the store. and they all were in a y codndition. and they just feed them lettuce. and little to no sunlight just a small heatlamp.
> I let them outside in the house yard most of the time. but some time it's too hot ar too cold so I put them inside.
> 
> what is the perfect size for the enclosure?
> ...


Do your tortoises eat well?


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## Athcc (Apr 6, 2019)

Ben02 said:


> Do your tortoises eat well?


yes. the bigger one eat more and not as active as the smaller one. 

but they eat well although they prefer lettuce more than anything. but I try to give them variety of food. 

cucumber - okra - pepper - cabbage

and I'm trying to make them eat carrots but it is not an easy task at all. 

but I chop it small on the greens


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## JoesMum (Apr 6, 2019)

Athcc said:


> yes. the bigger one eat more and not as active as the smaller one.
> 
> but they eat well although they prefer lettuce more than anything. but I try to give them variety of food.
> 
> ...



Generally these tortoises should be fed weedy and leafy greens.

They cannot digest sugars properly, so sweet foods like carrot, pepper, fruit and tomato should old be fed very sparingly and very occasionally.

Weeds like dandelions are preferred, but do check anything you want to feed out on The Tortoise Table Plant Database to make sure it is safe
https://www.thetortoisetable.org.uk/

@Gillian M is in Jordan and may be able to make recommendations as her location is closer to yours than mine is


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## Lyn W (Apr 6, 2019)

Athcc said:


> I just got them actually. I bought them from a store and the put like 50 one in the same space and inside the store. and they all were in a y codndition. and they just feed them lettuce. and little to no sunlight just a small heatlamp.
> I let them outside in the house yard most of the time. but some time it's too hot ar too cold so I put them inside.
> 
> what is the perfect size for the enclosure?
> ...



Your tort may have a shell problem but the *main *problem is the bullying and barging.
Is the shell soft? You could get some calcium powder and sprinkle a pinch of that on their food a few times a week and/or put some cuttlefish bone in for them and scrape some on the food. You can buy it in pet stores in the bird section. Remove any metal or plastic cage clips that may be attached - even the bits sunk into the cuttlebone. They may ignore it for a while but it should be available for them.
There isn't a water bowl in that box and that is something else they should always have access to in their enclosures - a shallow plant saucer big enough for them to self soak in will do.
The recommended size of enclosures is at least 4 feet by 8 feet - each, but you can't wait until you make new enclosures you need to separate straight away, or your tort will die from stress if not its injuries.
You did well to rescue them from the pet store but please read the caresheets for the torts species you have that will tell you what their diets should be and help you provide the correct care. You are in the right place to get all the help you need.


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## Athcc (Apr 6, 2019)

thanks much I'll go to the vet and to a pet store to buy whatever they need.

I did separate them this morning. 

and for the water bowl they have it but in the picture I remove it to wash it. 

is the diet product like mazuri diet nesssary? 

they are not available in my country and shipping it not always available and if so it's so expensive. [emoji26]


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## JoesMum (Apr 6, 2019)

A terracotta plant saucer makes a great water bowl. Ot should be big enough for your tortoise to climb in snd soak itself. 

It is not necessary to feed a commercial food. However, you must give a good variety of healthy greens. 

Cucumber and lettuce have high water content, which is probably good in your hot climate, but few nutrients and little fibre. 

Cabbage is high in goitrogens and should not be fed. 

Okra fruit may be fed sparingly. The leaves and flowers may be fed in moderation. 

Write a list of the greens you can buy and then look them up on The Tortoise Table Plant Database 
https://www.thetortoisetable.org.uk/


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## Tom (Apr 6, 2019)

33-39C is a fine temperature for this species AS LONG AS they have plenty of shade, fresh water, and areas to get out of the heat. You can dig a hole, cover the top with wood and put all the dirt from the hole back on top of the wood and the area under this should stay much cooler on these days when the temperature is 39. You can also run a sprinkler on the area in the mid day heat to cool it significantly.

Do be careful, and watch temperatures closely, but they can live outside in large enclosures with a little help from you. Soaking them every other day or so will also help to keep them well hydrated.


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## Dena (Apr 7, 2019)

You need to separate them. It appears the biggerr one is bullying/ injuring the little one, poor thing.


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## Lyn W (Apr 7, 2019)

How is your tort today?


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## William Lee Kohler (Apr 8, 2019)

My first instinct says shell fungus.


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## Maro2Bear (Apr 8, 2019)

William Lee Kohler said:


> My first instinct says shell fungus.



It’s very hot and dry in Riyadh. Imho, the affected area is right around the shell edge where the other Bully tort just contines to rub, bang and bully. Those sharp edges of a tort’s shell can easily cause that raw rough damaged bloody area. I don’t think a shell fungus looks “bloody” and bruised.


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## William Lee Kohler (Apr 8, 2019)

Maro2Bear said:


> It’s very hot and dry in Riyadh. Imho, the affected area is right around the shell edge where the other Bully tort just contines to rub, bang and bully. Those sharp edges of a tort’s shell can easily cause that raw rough damaged bloody area. I don’t think a shell fungus looks “bloody” and bruised.



Of course I realize the climate factor and it raises the question. However it looks to me more like eruptions rather than impactions. Still and of course the separation is a wise idea either way.


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## Athcc (Apr 10, 2019)

hello everyone one. I did separate them and she is doing good now. she is eating well and active as always. so don't worry.


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## puffinboots (Apr 10, 2019)

Your tortoise with the ‘bloody ‘shell looks very much like my tortoises. I have never seen blood on any of mine except once when I put some wire over the babies tub & unfortunately someone got scratched. Saw blood but never found which one had been bleeding. You have the ideal climate for that tortoise, as long as you have sand & a nice shady place for it to hide away in the heat. What is the sex? It looks fairly mature. Good luck !


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## puffinboots (Apr 10, 2019)

Here is a photo of some of mine


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## Maro2Bear (Apr 10, 2019)

puffinboots said:


> View attachment 269417
> View attachment 269418
> View attachment 269417
> View attachment 269416
> Here is a photo of some of mine



Wow...thsts a ton of torts.


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## puffinboots (Apr 12, 2019)

Maro2Bear said:


> Wow...thsts a ton of torts.


Yes they are very dusty , I’m afraid. Will try to scrub them up, & massage some coconut oil into their shells, but I expect that will only make the dust stick more. I have noticed that a couple of my 4 year olds female have definable signs of pyramiding. I will snap the worst one tomorrow. Will that badly affect their ability to be mated successfully? Surely it would make it more difficult.


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## Yvonne G (May 31, 2019)

puffinboots said:


> Yes they are very dusty , I’m afraid. Will try to scrub them up, & massage some coconut oil into their shells, but I expect that will only make the dust stick more. I have noticed that a couple of my 4 year olds female have definable signs of pyramiding. I will snap the worst one tomorrow. Will that badly affect their ability to be mated successfully? Surely it would make it more difficult.


Let's don't derail athcc's thread about blood on the shell. Start a new thread to ask your breeding question please.


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