# Color and Size Observations of This Year's Sulcata Hatchlings



## Tom (Aug 1, 2013)

I'm having a bit of a unique year with my sulcata hatchlings. Year after year, my hatchlings are pretty homogenous. They are nearly always 35-39 grams and they all look pretty similar. Now in the past I've had one runt that was "only" 32 grams, and one "giant" that hatched at 44 grams, but those were exceptions. This year I've had a bout 50 hatch so far and about 12 of them appear to be little runts in comparison to their siblings. I immediately started thinking about what might be the "problem". Did I not feed the adults enough? Are all the years of growing weeds depleting the soil of nutrients? Not enough calcium or protein in the adult females diet? Well I finally started popping them onto the scale and guess what. All those little runts are 38-39 grams. Their "normal" looking siblings are all 44-46 grams. No joke. I'm having a year of giants. This is from three different clutches. I thought the scale might be off, but I checked it with the four quarters trick. You can see some size differences here:





These guys were all hatched within a few days of each other.



Up next is a couple of them with some interesting color. My babies are all usually the same color. Minor differences with shading or dots, but basically pretty similar. These six guys just hatched within the last few days from the same clutch.




Check out the little guy in the middle and the other one off to the left. These guys are regular sized hatchlings at 38 and 39 grams, but their four clutchmates are more of the "giants" that I'm experiencing this year at 43-44 grams. I've never produced any with this much darkness. Not only do their shells show more pigment than is normal for me, their head skin is also dark. Kind of neat. I wasn't planning on keeping any babies from this year, but I might hold on to these to see how they develop.


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## mike taylor (Aug 1, 2013)

Man that is interesting. I like the darker ones too so don't blame you for holding on to them . Just a question do you measure out each day what you feed ? Also do you keep a record of daily temperatures so you can reference for this kind of growth? I measure out my feedings to all my animals and just check the thermometer for daily highs . I do this just to see the different growth rates of my reds and they are always real close . But not perfect due too you can't make them eat the same day in and day out . I have noted that on hotter days they eat less and soak more in there mud holes . But there average wait gain is about the same biweekly.

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## sibi (Aug 1, 2013)

Neat Tom. Love the darker on on the left. I'd like to see how they turn out too.


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## Tom (Aug 1, 2013)

My thermometers register the highs and lows each day, but I don't record it. Ambient drops to 78 at night and climbs to 90ish during the day. I don't measure the food. All the hatchlings are started in a 4x8' closed chamber. They eat a TON of food, but they are only a week or so out of the brooder box. Not much time for new growth to be measured yet. I weigh them all after hatching, but before they start eating. At this point they all have about 7-12 days of food in them. I don't measure the food. I just throw out endless handfuls onto a couple of plates, and it magically disappears. This enclosure holds any where up to 50 or 60 hatchlings at a time, depending on what has sold and what is hatching. They rotate in and out of there constantly during "the season". Right now there are about 30-40 in there, but some are soon to be sold and more are hatching right now.


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## mike taylor (Aug 1, 2013)

I was talking about the adults. Food intake and climate changes of the year to see the size difference in the off spring . Maybe something there maybe she ate more these days and soaked more on the hotter days making you have bigger babies. Just my opinion .

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## Tom (Aug 1, 2013)

mike taylor said:


> I was talking about the adults. Food intake and climate changes of the year to see the size difference in the off spring . Maybe something there maybe she ate more these days and soaked more on the hotter days making you have bigger babies. Just my opinion .
> 
> Sent from my C771 using TortForum mobile app



Oh sorry. The adults just eat whatever grows in their pen for 5-6 months out of every year. When it all dries up and dies in the spring, I start feeding them. They always have grass hay available and eat it... Hey. You just made me think of something. I was about to type in that its the same routine every year, but there was one notable change this year. I switched from bermuda hay to orchard grass hay. I also fed a higher quantity of fresh alfalfa last year, compared to previous years when I wasn't growing it. Those are the only two things I can think of that are really different. Hard to say if either or both of those things were much of a factor, but that's all I can come up with.


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## cdmay (Aug 2, 2013)

Tom said:


> mike taylor said:
> 
> 
> > I was talking about the adults. Food intake and climate changes of the year to see the size difference in the off spring . Maybe something there maybe she ate more these days and soaked more on the hotter days making you have bigger babies. Just my opinion .
> ...



I was going to suggest that most likely it is something to do with the female's diet. But you guys beat me to it.


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## mike taylor (Aug 2, 2013)

Yes your on to something there Tom . So maybe the grass is greener on the other side of the fence. 

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## Teodora'sDAD (Aug 2, 2013)

Little off topic- but I have bred and raised horses. Orchard grass is much better for the mares in foal along with alfalfa. We found if we dropped the starch and sugar levels the foals arrived big and healthy. We raised the foals on a low startch, low sugar diet which made thew grow slower and stedier but resaulted in a lager horse in the end.. just my two cents


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## Tom (Aug 2, 2013)

Teodora said:


> Little off topic- but I have bred and raised horses. Orchard grass is much better for the mares in foal along with alfalfa. We found if we dropped the starch and sugar levels the foals arrived big and healthy. We raised the foals on a low startch, low sugar diet which made thew grow slower and stedier but resaulted in a lager horse in the end.. just my two cents



Cool info. I have found many similarities between horses and tortoise. Makes for interesting discussion.


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## Teodora'sDAD (Aug 2, 2013)

Tom said:


> Teodora said:
> 
> 
> > Little off topic- but I have bred and raised horses. Orchard grass is much better for the mares in foal along with alfalfa. We found if we dropped the starch and sugar levels the foals arrived big and healthy. We raised the foals on a low startch, low sugar diet which made thew grow slower and stedier but resaulted in a lager horse in the end.. just my two cents
> ...



I relate everything to horses or horse behavior. it does make for interesting discussions! lol


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## Tom (Aug 2, 2013)

Just pulled these guy out of the incubator today. They are from the same clutch as my darker ones from earlier in this thread..








Check out the dalmatian spots.






I think I will take a page from breeders of some other reptiles and call them "Super Extreme Dalmatian Dragon X Sulcatas", and charge a whole lotta money for them. What do ya think?


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## Baoh (Aug 2, 2013)

On the normal spectrum of size and color, although it may be distinctly different within your own group.


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## wiccan_chicken (Aug 8, 2013)

Get your SEDDS Here! 

Now that you have started seeing all of these monster babies, do you plan to continue feeding the mommas like this to see if the babies continue being this huge? 

I also wonder if the diet is causing these cool coloration's, or if some recessive gene just managed to hit the jack pot.


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## Baoh (Aug 8, 2013)

wiccan_chicken said:


> Get your SEDDS Here!
> 
> Now that you have started seeing all of these monster babies, do you plan to continue feeding the mommas like this to see if the babies continue being this huge?
> 
> *I also wonder if the diet is causing these cool coloration's, or if some recessive gene just managed to hit the jack pot.*



The former is very unlikely. The latter is simply not the case.

Larger eggs and/or hatchlings are not uncommon with 1) improved nutritional status and 2) older/larger females. As my females grow older and larger, so do their eggs and offspring in incremental fashion.


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