# Intelligence



## Dr. Coffee (Apr 9, 2011)

Hi everyone,

I was reading an article on this forum the other day that said you can equate tortoise intelligence to a white rat! I could tell they weren't dumb, but white rat level is pretty smart. That means they could be trained Pavlov-style?

My tortoise, Dr. Coffee, has started coming to me when I call him. Pretty impressive. I've also started giving him a little bit of lettuce when he does. 

Anyone else have an example of their tortoises' intelligence? Has anyone actually trained their tortoise in any way? 

~Ryan


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## ALDABRAMAN (Apr 9, 2011)

I spend alot of time in the field directly with our guys and think alot of there actions are motivated by association and not real cognitive thought process. I can not say ours have ever shown any type of a conditioned responce! Here is a great example of some of our tortoises coming for the red bucket, food. They associate the red bucket with food and will follow that bucket until they get there portion.


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## dmmj (Apr 9, 2011)

If I saw that many aldabs coming at me, I would give them whatever they wanted.


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## Maggie Cummings (Apr 9, 2011)

I trained Bob to get into a cart so I could move him from the front to the back. Then he got too big for the cart and I had his shed in the back set up so for a couple of years we didn't use the cart, but one day he escaped from his yard and was charging up the street...going to town to see the elephant. I didn't have anybody to help me so I grabbed his cart and even after not using it for 2 years he remembered it and he climbed right in. He will follow my wiggling fingers like the aldabs follow the red bucket...Ido believe they can be trained to do a lot of simple stuff...


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## Candy (Apr 9, 2011)

That's exactly what I was thinking too David!  All I can share with you is that the other day when I went outside to find Fernando he saw me and came right over to my foot. He's never done that before so I figured he must be looking for some food. I've got to admit though at one point his little face looked like he was very happy to see me, kind of like he was saying "Hey where have you been, I've been looking for you?"  He is so cute sometimes I can't stand it.


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## Balboa (Apr 9, 2011)

Somewhere I read an article where they studied observational learning in redfoots. As I recall they first trained one to negotiate a simple maze, and then let others watch as the first one completed the maze, they were then able to do it themselves.

darn smart critters.


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## ALDABRAMAN (Apr 9, 2011)

Balboa said:


> Somewhere I read an article where they studied observational learning in redfoots. As I recall they first trained one to negotiate a simple maze, and then let others watch as the first one completed the maze, they were then able to do it themselves.
> 
> darn smart critters.



 That is interesting!


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## terryo (Apr 9, 2011)

I have one. Pio..my cherry head...only gets protein every three weeks. Usually she gets a worm or a piece of boiled chicken. Protein of any kind is her favorite food. Every morning she waits on her feeding stone for her food...usually greens, mazuri, veggies or fruit. But, when she sees me coming with the white napkin, which is what I bring her protein in, she will leave the stone and come running...and I mean fast...to the other side of the viv and practically bites my fingers to get to the worm, or chicken. She must associate the white napkin with something she likes. So she does remember it, even though she doesn't get it very often. That's about the only intelligent thing I've ever seen her do. I find her very laid back, always observing, unafraid, curious, and very friendly. So far Solo has much the same personality. I'm sure they are intelligent by their own standards. Is it intelligence or repetition?


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## HarleyK (Apr 9, 2011)

I think tortoises and other reptiles tend to be more instinctual than anything elsE.


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## GBtortoises (Apr 10, 2011)

I have to agrees with ALDABRAMAN and HarleyK. I have yet to see a tortoise that has the intelligence level of a rat. I also absolutely do not believe that they come when called without actual sight recognition! They may respond to familiar vibrations and certain out of human range sound levels but it's very doubtful that they reply to a sound within the range of a human voice without sight or other "trigger" as association. Somewhere buried here in the TFO archives is a lengthy response that I wrote about a test that myself and a few of my tortoises were involved in with a local college grad student many years ago. She did a study involving several types of mammals, birds, fish and reptiles on their ability to recognize and respond to various situations. I supplied tortoises for the test. They failed miserably in most of the challenges except sight recognition. Even in part of the sight recognition challenge, they went to the person with the food and not to me (with no food). That tells you what drives them. I won't re-write it here again, but maybe someone can find it.


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## Missy (Apr 10, 2011)

When I first rescued Lana last year I walked her up and down the sidewalk in front of my house. She was week and has MBD so I walked her every day to build her strength. She stayed on the sidewalk and would just follow me up and down. I got her out for the first time a few days ago and sat her down in the grass to graze. She took a few bites then went straight for the side walk. We walked up and down for a good hour, she never strayed from the sidewalk. It is funny that several people stopped and said hi to Lana and called her by name but they don't know my name.LOL


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## Tom (Apr 10, 2011)

I have a little butter tub that I soak my Mazuri in. As soon as I bring it in to the reptile room, all the babies of all the species immediately run over to the places where I always set their food trays in their enclosures. Some of them mill around and sniff the substrate and some of them move to that spot and then lay down with their neck and head stretched way out while they look around very attentively. This happens twice a week and they don't do this any other time.

I've trained a lot of rats, and this seems about white rat intelligence level to me.


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## Balboa (Apr 10, 2011)

Did some digging and found GBtortoises' post he referred to.

http://www.tortoiseforum.org/Thread-Imprinting?pid=117550&highlight=research#axzz1IzZyuAn4 post#7

and here's the paper I referred to

http://rsbl.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/early/2010/03/25/rsbl.2010.0092.full

When Mark and I discussed that paper I remember we both felt the redfoot tortoise was probably not the best choice of test subject to study "social learning in a non-social reptile". 

Hmmm wonder if redfoots are just smarter than meds ?????

My tort is smarter than yours fights anyone


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## terryo (Apr 10, 2011)

When I go outside to feed my boxies, my dogs come with me. Even if I don't say a word, the boxies will hear the dogs barking and they all will go right to the food stone. Sometimes in the afternoon I'll go outside and sit by the boxie garden and read a book. I don't say a word, but everyone comes from where ever they are to sit next to me. Looking for food? I think so. Emotion is another subject, but it also rides along with intelligence. So do they feel sadness, happiness, anxiety? I wonder. What about Pio (cherry head) and Izzy (box turtle). They were kept together since they were hatchlings. When Izzy left, Pio didn't eat for days and finally went into his hide and never came out until I put her back in with Pio. He came out sniffed all around her shell, and finally started to act normal again.


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## Shelly (Apr 10, 2011)

My tortoises never cease to amaze me with their intelligence AND stupidity.


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## dmarcus (Apr 10, 2011)

Vegas will follow me, but I thinks it's just for more food...


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## dmmj (Apr 10, 2011)

My RES (plural) follow me around on their outdoor pond, but they definitely think they are gonna get fed. My CDT also comes to me when I show up as does my russians, but I think it is more conditioned response ( oh a person we will get food now)


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## Balboa (Apr 10, 2011)

Shelly said:


> My tortoises never cease to amaze me with their intelligence AND stupidity.



kinda like people eh?


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## Dr. Coffee (Apr 10, 2011)

Balboa said:


> Did some digging and found GBtortoises' post he referred to.
> 
> http://www.tortoiseforum.org/Thread-Imprinting?pid=117550&highlight=research#axzz1IzZyuAn4 post#7



Thanks for this, and everyone's responses. 
Seems like the conclusion is: they're smart about finding food. 

I read an article about gopher tortoises and it concluded that there was no real social structure among the tortoises besides, 'biggest gets to mate.' The only reason they seemed to all be in one place is because of the abundance of food in that area. 

So, their intelligence is not social. This is probably why it is hard for us to appreciate it. We and our most popular pets (dogs,cats,birds) are social animals. A tortoise brain/experience-of-reality is too different.


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## Dexter111 (Apr 10, 2011)

I've seen my Tortoise take a bite of food and then tear it with his arm/hand while holding it with his mouth. Pretty impressive.


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## Jacob (Apr 10, 2011)

Peer Gorgeous 

awsome


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## Badgemash (Apr 10, 2011)

On one hand I think they might be smarter then humans, after all they have me trained to bring them a non-stop supply of fresh food all day long and cater to their every need. On the other hand I caught Gunny eating a pebble... so maybe they're not too bright after all. 

-Devon


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## dmmj (Apr 10, 2011)

I am so smart S M R T, I mean S M A R T


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## Dr. Coffee (Apr 10, 2011)

Badgemash said:


> On one hand I think they might be smarter then humans, after all they have me trained to bring them a non-stop supply of fresh food all day long and cater to their every need. On the other hand I caught Gunny eating a pebble... so maybe they're not too bright after all.
> 
> -Devon



Yeah, that's a fun idea. I saw a talk about how 'smart' corn is, evolving to be delicious and useful so that we grow it everywhere. In a sense, it's 'using' us to thrive.


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