# Apartment Pets



## BowandWalter (Nov 3, 2012)

I have sort of started missing having "fuzzy" pets, Walter and my fish are great, just not particularly cuddly. I've been thinking of looking into something else. The only problem is that one of my roommates is less then pleasant to live with, so it would have to be kept quiet for her, ergo, no noise, no exceptional mess, no weird smells, not something that needs to go outside at all hours to do its business (something that could be litter trained would be awesome). Anything suggestions?


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## cherylim (Nov 3, 2012)

Depending on the space available, is a house rabbit a possibility? They're very easy to litter train, relatively quiet.

Ideally you'd set one of these up for them:







When you're not there to supervise them, you put them in and put the lid on. Keeps them safe, stops them destroying your cables, etc...

When you're in, just lift the lid and let them roam free. They can be trained to return to their cage to use a corner of it as a toilet, and they can go back whenever they want to relax or to sleep in a proper shelter, but they're generally happy to have the additional space and they behave a lot like cats but need less space to roam, don't need to go outside on their own regularly and are quieter and easier to contain.


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## BowandWalter (Nov 3, 2012)

Though I do love bunnies,, there's just not enough room to house one properly. Plus none of the bunnies I've fostered have ever measured up to my old bunny. She was a 35 pound meat rabbit, with white angora hair, she was the best bunny in every way possible.


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## pam (Nov 3, 2012)

Guinea pigs are Awesome and you can find alot on craigslist that need a home


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## Itort (Nov 3, 2012)

For small mammal pets a rat can't be beat in my opinion. Friendly, intelligent, and clean. Easy to feed and house.


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## shellysmom (Nov 3, 2012)

Well, if a spastic curtain-climbing kitten is out of the question, I vote for rat, too. They're wonderful.


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## BowandWalter (Nov 3, 2012)

shellysmom said:


> Well, if a spastic curtain-climbing kitten is out of the question, I vote for rat, too. They're wonderful.



Haha! I wish we could get kittens, there's so many kittens needing homes here.




pam said:


> Guinea pigs are Awesome and you can find alot on craigslist that need a home



Guineas are not very common here, plus the squealing would count as noise.  My school hood friend breeds fancy ones, their so cute as babies.




Itort said:


> For small mammal pets a rat can't be beat in my opinion. Friendly, intelligent, and clean. Easy to feed and house.



I've been leaning towards a rat or mouse. Do they smell? I've had mixed opinions. I'd probably try to rescue a young feeder, I hand raised a gerbil once upon a time and it was the sweetest.


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## Itort (Nov 3, 2012)

You"ll find rats will use one area of cage as litter area keep this clean and no smell (like cats and rabbits).


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## BowandWalter (Nov 3, 2012)

Itort said:


> You"ll find rats will use one area of cage as litter area keep this clean and no smell (like cats and rabbits).



Is it particularly hard to litter train them?


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## Itort (Nov 3, 2012)

No as a denning animal they do it naturally.


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## BowandWalter (Nov 3, 2012)

Itort said:


> No as a denning animal they do it naturally.



Sweet deal! Do males really pee as they walk?


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## Edna (Nov 3, 2012)

I think the unpleasant roomie should go, and then you could have a ringneck dove. They are very cuddly once they're in love with you.


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## BowandWalter (Nov 3, 2012)

Edna said:


> I think the unpleasant roomie should go, and then you could have a ringneck dove. They are very cuddly once they're in love with you.



If I was going to get a bird I'd get Duki bird back from my Mom. 

Technically pets other then Betta fish aren't allowed, but in for a penny...

She is literally the most unpleasant girl to live with, all three of us dislike her. It's like living with a human pig, except I like pigs and I feel like I'm discrediting them because they are probably WAY cleaner and more hygienic.


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## mainey34 (Nov 3, 2012)

Mice, rats they all smell. Get a hedge hog. They are the best cuddly. Quiet non smelling pet.


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## bobbymoore (Nov 3, 2012)

You should probably go with a parrot or elephant


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## BowandWalter (Nov 3, 2012)

bobbymoore said:


> You should probably go with a parrot or elephant



I have an elephant


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## BowandWalter (Nov 3, 2012)

mainey34 said:


> Mice, rats they all smell. Get a hedge hog. They are the best cuddly. Quiet non smelling pet.



The algerian black hedgehogs are ridiculously cute, I'll do more research into that one.


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## RosieRedfoot (Nov 3, 2012)

Gerbils smell the least of small pets I've found. When I had a hedgehog, his morning wheel running would result in him filling his wheel with stinky cat-smelling poos. Male mice have a very smelly musk to them.
Least odor:
Female mice, gerbils (either sex), female rats, dwarf hamsters, and degus would all smell the least. 

Some odor:
Male rats, guinea pigs, rabbits, syrian hamsters (although some smell less than others), and hedgehogs would be the next tier. Some say chinchillas would be in this class, others say they are less smelly but since I haven't owned them I'm not classifying for certain.

More odor:
Smellier than that would be ferrets and male mice. 

Some male rats seem to think everything needs marking with pee, so in regards to rats the females are slightly cleaner and may smell less, but male rats are so chubby and a lot cuddlier. I'd chose a rat over a hedgehog if you want cuddly. 

I used to own and had rescued over a hundred various critters (mice, rats, gerbils, dwarf hamsters, syrian hamsters, spiny mice, degus, guinea pigs, hedgehogs, rabbits) so I know which ones required the most cleaning and care.


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## BowandWalter (Nov 3, 2012)

Awesome post!

I'm definitely looking for cuddly, I might look a bit into a degu, but rats are sounding pretty awesome. Plus easy to hand raise.


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## cpk (Nov 3, 2012)

I say rabbits are good quiet pets. Plus, they smell good... i like to stick my face in my bunnies fur and sniff him sometimes... 
All you have to do is let him run around in the house. You don't have to walk them. You could also litter train them.
Depending on the breed and the bunny's personality, some are cuddly and some aren't.


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## BowandWalter (Nov 3, 2012)

cpk said:


> I say rabbits are good quiet pets. Plus, they smell good... i like to stick my face in my bunnies fur and sniff him sometimes...
> All you have to do is let him run around in the house. You don't have to walk them. You could also litter train them.
> Depending on the breed and the bunny's personality, some are cuddly and some aren't.



I love bunnies, just not enough room to keep one fairly, even free ranging. My house bunny died 4 years ago, I can't even imagine another bunny ever measuring up to her.

I'm going to see a litter of dumbo rats tomorrow. All 3 of us are really excited! I'm starting to lean towards rats, they sound more and more fascinating the more I read about them.

Can rats live on a shelf like mice? It sounds dangerous, but apparently it works for mice? 

What sort of cage/container is best? I've only ever seen rats in sad little cages, it doesn't seem very nice.


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## jtrux (Nov 4, 2012)

Definitely a rat or a Caique if birds are your thing. Oh and ditch the roommate, nothing is worse than a shitty roommate, been there done that.


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## BowandWalter (Nov 4, 2012)

jtrux said:


> Definitely a rat or a Caique if birds are your thing. Oh and ditch the roommate, nothing is worse than a shitty roommate, been there done that.



I'll read up on a Caique. Sadly we can't ditch her, part of the housing thing. We do refer to her as Muggle, which makes us feel better.

Did a little reading, and a lot of watching youtube... The only problem with a caique is that it wouldn't get along with other birds. I have three other birds back home. They are ridiculously adorable with their rolling around, but after they ate my canary and beat up Eeba, and my Duki bird I probably wouldn't find it so cute. Maybe if I stop finding abandoned birds in the future I'll get one.


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## RosieRedfoot (Nov 4, 2012)

Rats can live in a ferret or large bird cage. They love hammocks and hidey tubes. Degus are cute but aren't usually as cuddly as rats. I'm so jealous.. I want a dumbo rat (or two  ) but am having no luck finding a good breeder nearby! I may have found one though.. 

I don't get to go visit any family for holidays so I'm asking for some ratties instead


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## Floof (Nov 4, 2012)

Oh, I feel for you on the roommate! She sounds like my soon-to-be FORMER (thank god!!!) roommate. BIGGEST slob I've ever met, SO unsanitary, and, on top of that, she throws a fit and goes off on an angry rant whenever you try to offer some constructive criticism (i.e. "Could you PLEASE rinse all the nasty food and cheese bits out of the dish sponge when you're done?" "WHAT? -ensue 10 minute rant about anything else in the universe-").

Ahem, sorry.

I agree, rats are awesome! If you keep up on keeping the cage clean (and/or, can get them litter trained--as much as I keep hearing "it's easy" and "they do it naturally," I could never get any of mine to poop or pee in one spot), they don't smell much. They are so friendly and snuggly and social. GET TWO. Don't just get one... A single rat is a lonely rat is a depressed rat. Not unlike locking a human being in a room alone and denying any human contact ever again. As appealing as it sounds sometimes, eventually you'd go insane from loneliness. Get as big a cage as you can get, whose bar spaces are still small enough that they can't escape.

As far as male VS female... You'll have to weigh the pros and cons and decide which is better for you. After having both, I've come to prefer females... My boys, though incredibly snuggly and obedient, would regularly pee on me or the couch and smelled soooo much stronger than the girls. They're also much larger than girls, which can be a good thing or a bad thing depending on your preference, and seem to be lazier.

All this talk of rats makes me miss mine so much! I finally gave them up after finding out that I just suck as a rat caretaker. But, gosh, I miss my hairless dumbo girls so freaking much! They were the SWEETEST little things.


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## BowandWalter (Nov 4, 2012)

Floof said:


> Oh, I feel for you on the roommate! She sounds like my soon-to-be FORMER (thank god!!!) roommate. BIGGEST slob I've ever met, SO unsanitary, and, on top of that, she throws a fit and goes off on an angry rant whenever you try to offer some constructive criticism (i.e. "Could you PLEASE rinse all the nasty food and cheese bits out of the dish sponge when you're done?" "WHAT? -ensue 10 minute rant about anything else in the universe-").
> 
> Ahem, sorry.
> 
> ...



Ha! Ours rants to her now non-existent friends about how terrible we are and how we're disgusting and mean. Our walls are paper thin, we heard everything, probably just like her friend heard the uproarious laughter and "Muggle CLEAN?!". 
We aren't really mean to her, at least we've tried to be nice and she is soo ridiculously rude back that we've given up. We three go shopping together, to movies, dancing, fun things like that. When I've tried to be nice and invite her I'll hear her in her room and knock, she won't open the door! One time I even ran back to my room, checked Facebook , and realized she had passed up going to the movies for spending her night alone on Facebook, posting pictures of cats and complaints of how no one invites her to anything. Okydoke, no more ranting on Muggle...

I've been looking at cage designs, luckily what I lack in woodworking I make up in metal working, so I can probably build one. I figure if I build it I can make it fitted to my room, then they get more space.

I'm just going to go and see if there's one that I "click" with, if there's two even better. If not I'll get one and just keep looking for number two. I'm not really fixed on a sex, whatever the gender I'll just get a buddy of the same.

For diet I'm somewhat confused, what I've read seems to say that Walters greens are good, along with eggs, bugs, and fish for protein. Also lab blocks, I figured I'd try to ask the adoption place about where to find them.

Is there any danger of it getting Walter sick or vise versa? He loves his freedom and I imagine that it will at some point in its life step onto the floor. I keep my room pretty clean for Walters sake so I can't see it being cesspool-esque.


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## Floof (Nov 4, 2012)

LOL. Wow. Awesome roommate you have there. Mine defriended me on facebook after I pointed out how stupid, childish, and passive-aggressive it was for her to post on facebook about being the "bigger person" and not "reacting" when I said something one day about the sponge issue. (Or maybe it was the hey-there's-still-cheese-and-grease-on-this-"clean"-dish issue. The sponge is a nice representative of her dish washing "skills," too!) Sometimes you have to wonder. Really. We're friends on FB, and your version of not reacting or starting a fight... Is to go post on facebook, where you KNOW I can see it and will react? She's hardly ever home, and complains that I'm home too much. Not that she's home enough to notice whether or not I spend time out of the house or not... Apparently just the knowledge that I'm a homebody is offensive! LOL

That'll be so cool! A big, homemade cage... Probably can make it a lot more accessible than most commercial rat cages, too.

I'm not going to pretend to be a rodent expert... But I _personally_ tend to prefer a high quality lab block as the staple, by far. That way you know they aren't picking and choosing like with a mix, and you know you aren't missing on any important nutrients like with a homemade diet. Good lab blocks include Mazuri and Harlan Teklad diets. I believe Harlan is also sold under the label "Native Earth." Those are the three that I've seen recommended the most in both pet rat and feeder breeder rat communities. (As much as the idea of feeder breeding might leave a bad taste in some peoples' mouths, one priority IS to offer the best quality nutrition to make for healthy, well-producing breeders and healthy, nutritional food for beloved pet carnivores.)

They do LOVE veggies and greens as a treat. Would probably go nuts for eggs, etc, too, as treats. I offered dubia roaches to the rats a few times, but gave up because they'd nibble on them then let them loose and forget about them... Wasn't too keen on loose roaches in the rat cage. They did seem to like them, though, when they actually paid attention long enough to eat them! 

There probably aren't many, if any, illnesses that Walter could pick up from a rat, or vice versa. So long as you clean up between them, it should be non-issue.


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## BowandWalter (Nov 4, 2012)

We actually had a loud conversation about how "somebody" had never done the garbage in 4 months of living here, she whipped out and made a fuss about how we should realize that the walls are paper thin and that she "totally did the garbage last week" even though my other roommate had, and I'd done it the week before that.
Me and my best friend who, thank God, is my other roommate have just started thinking of her as a messy pet with limited intelligence. It makes bearing her way more possible.

I'm really excited! I'm going at 3 to see the litter of 14 that the rescue has available!


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## Floof (Nov 4, 2012)

Well, there's a good way of thinking about it... LOL! If it didn't irritate me so much that a 30 year old woman could be so incredibly incapable of caring for herself, I'd have to try that mindset. Instead, my work around is disposable dishes and my own separate sponge for that occasion that I do have to use a real dish. One week! One week til I'm roommate free! ...Sorry, now I'm just bragging. 

Yay! Hope you find the perfect couple of babies. Rats are just such wonderful pets. You have me wanting to try again... Maybe the 4th time would be the charm? (Okay, probably not. lol)


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## BowandWalter (Nov 4, 2012)

This is Hatter! He seems pretty happy, in a IMSOEXCITEDABOUTEVERYTHING sort of way. He's hiding in my hair trying to sort it out right now. I now fully understand the popcorn faze that people told me about!

View attachment 31737




View attachment 31738


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## Floof (Nov 4, 2012)

Hmm... The pics aren't showing up for me!  Congrats on your new baby, though!!


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## BowandWalter (Nov 4, 2012)

Floof said:


> Hmm... The pics aren't showing up for me!  Congrats on your new baby, though!!



They don't seem to show up at all! He's just white with a black face and ridiculous ears. He's such a doll. He's riding around on my shoulder.


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## jaizei (Nov 4, 2012)

http://www.tortoiseforum.org/attachment.php?aid=31736
Other 2 didn't work

Those are some ears  Now I want another rat.


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## BowandWalter (Nov 4, 2012)

jaizei said:


> http://www.tortoiseforum.org/attachment.php?aid=31736
> Other 2 didn't work
> 
> Those are some ears  Now I want another rat.



Thank you! I can see why you would, he's so cool! He loves getting back scratches, he turns into this blob and makes a happy noise. I've never met a tame rat before, the pet store I got him from is directly partnered with the SPCA and the employees tamed the babies because they were born in the store. It was really nice talking to them, even their aquariums were up to a high standard! I have never been so impressed by a store.


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## RosieRedfoot (Nov 5, 2012)

Cute! I love dumbos! Hopefully you get him a buddy soon since rats are very very social and thrive off of companionship (that we can't fully provide them). And it's easier to pair up babies. 

As for diseases, myco is very prevalent in ratties and is a respiratory ailment. All rats carry it but some flare ups can be serious and can be caused by stress or poor housing. Since he's young and in a new environment he's at risk for a myco flare up and I urge you to look into mycoplasmosis further, especially before going around and petting a bunch of rats.


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## BowandWalter (Nov 5, 2012)

RosieRedfoot said:


> Cute! I love dumbos! Hopefully you get him a buddy soon since rats are very very social and thrive off of companionship (that we can't fully provide them). And it's easier to pair up babies.
> 
> As for diseases, myco is very prevalent in ratties and is a respiratory ailment. All rats carry it but some flare ups can be serious and can be caused by stress or poor housing. Since he's young and in a new environment he's at risk for a myco flare up and I urge you to look into mycoplasmosis further, especially before going around and petting a bunch of rats.



Haha, yes I'm looking for a buddy! Just all his albino siblings gave me the creeps.

He has mycoplasmosis, but the only other person I know with rats lives 6 hours away. She's pretty safe from me rubbing my diseased rat on hers  The pet store told me all about it, the mother was a rescue, so she came to them with it. All the babies caught it from her. It can be helped by proper care. He's living in a fleece blanket with a tissue paper nest that I had to make for him. He was having a flare up before I brought him home, which is why the pet store went over it with me, they were really quiet good, I got the run down on pretty much everything.


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## Floof (Nov 5, 2012)

Cute!! I love the dumbo ears, they're just too adorable. Congrats again!


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## BowandWalter (Nov 5, 2012)

Floof said:


> Cute!! I love the dumbo ears, they're just too adorable. Congrats again!



He's so snuggly! I haven't even had him a day and he rolls over for belly rubs, wiggles around for back scratches, he's such a ham! He did make a mad dive into my plate of fries at lunch time, but it was more funny then insulting.


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