# Tortoise Pellets and Diet



## Anonymous (Jun 7, 2016)

I have posted previous threads on my tortoise and her addiction to shop bought pellets. Although I managed to get her to eat veg for a while a few months ago she has now got hooked again on pellets and is completely opposed to eating veg. Looking over the Internet there aren't many websites discussing shop bought pellets so I thought I'd come here. 

So I have a few questions that hopefully some of you guys can answer. 
Are pellets actually bad for tortoises?
What are the effects of pellets?
How can I break my tortoises addiction to pellets and not eating veg.


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## JoesMum (Jun 7, 2016)

Anonymous said:


> I have posted previous threads on my tortoise and her addiction to shop bought pellets. Although I managed to get her to eat veg for a while a few months ago she has now got hooked again on pellets and is completely opposed to eating veg. Looking over the Internet there aren't many websites discussing shop bought pellets so I thought I'd come here.
> 
> So I have a few questions that hopefully some of you guys can answer.
> Are pellets actually bad for tortoises?
> ...


Pellets are not 'bad' for a tort, but they're not a natural diet and they don't provide variety. You could live on a diet of one product, but it wouldn't be recommended. 

Effects: Depends on the pellets. Some are better formulated than others

Fixing the addiction:

Chop a tiny amount of greens really small and mix them with the pellets 

If he eats the mix, at the next feed increase the greens slightly and decrease the pellets slightly

If he refuses, at the next feed use exactly the same proportion. Soak your tort thoroughly. He can go on hunger strike without a problem, but must stay hydrated. 

Gradually over a few weeks you will be feeding all greens and no pellets. 

Long term fix. Never ever weaken and let him get away with only eating pellets. If he refuses greens, he gets no pellets. Think toddler, no dessert until you eat your greens.


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## Anonymous (Jun 8, 2016)

Oh hey Joes Mum! You're my saviour for every problem, lol. Thanks for replying. 

I've tried this for a while but I guess I have to keep trying. Are carrots suitable for tortoises? I've looked it up and it says they can be fed occasionally to your tortoise.


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## JoesMum (Jun 8, 2016)

Anonymous said:


> Oh hey Joes Mum! You're my saviour for every problem, lol. Thanks for replying.
> 
> I've tried this for a while but I guess I have to keep trying. Are carrots suitable for tortoises? I've looked it up and it says they can be fed occasionally to your tortoise.


You have to be stubborn - more stubborn than your tort. You really do have to let it go hungry when it refuses to eat. 

This is you being parent to a child that only wants chips and chocolate. You cannot and must not give in. 

As for carrot. It depends on what species of tort you have.


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## JoesMum (Jun 8, 2016)

Looking back through your posts it would appear you have a Russian @Anonymous

Russians cannot process sugars properly - it causes digestive and kidney problems - so sweet foods like fruit, carrot, bell pepper and tomato should only be fed very sparingly and very occasionally. 

With your tort, I suggest you don't feed carrot at all until you have got him eating greens


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## Anonymous (Jun 8, 2016)

Kk, I'll try to be stubborn and try not to give in but I'm not exactly good at that sort of stuff... Also I've never had a kid so no idea what it's like to have a addicted kid, lol. I'll give it try and try and let you know how it goes.


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## Gillian M (Jun 8, 2016)

JoesMum said:


> You have to be stubborn - more stubborn than your tort. You really do have to let it go hungry when it refuses to eat.
> 
> This is you being parent to a child that only wants chips and chocolate. You cannot and must not give in.
> 
> As for carrot. It depends on what species of tort you have.


Would you recommend my feeding Oli (my Greek tort) carrots?


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## Anonymous (Jun 8, 2016)

How long can she go with out eating. When should I start getting worried that she hasn't eaten enough?


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## Yvonne G (Jun 8, 2016)

Offer fresh greens daily. At the end of the day clean it all up. Next day don't offer any food. Maybe even for two days - no food. Then put down fresh greens. The tortoise won't allow itself to starve. It will eventually eat the greens. But to answer your question, they can go a very long time, months, without eating. That's not what we strive for, though.


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## JoesMum (Jun 8, 2016)

Gillian Moore said:


> Would you recommend my feeding Oli (my Greek tort) carrots?


No @Gillian Moore. Oli can't tolerate sugars either.


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## Gillian M (Jun 8, 2016)

JoesMum said:


> No @Gillian Moore. Oli can't tolerate sugars either.


Alright. And thanks a lot your help as well as your prompt reply.


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## JoesMum (Jun 8, 2016)

As Yvonne said, you need to force this issue. It is very important to soak your tort thoroughly every day while it's on hunger strike. It can go hungry, but not without water


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## Gillian M (Jun 8, 2016)

JoesMum said:


> As Yvonne said, you need to force this issue. It is very important to soak your tort thoroughly every day while it's on hunger strike. It can go hungry, but not without water


Do you have any idea how long a tort can tolerate hunger?


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## Gillian M (Jun 8, 2016)

Yvonne G said:


> Offer fresh greens daily. At the end of the day clean it all up. Next day don't offer any food. Maybe even for two day - no food. The put down fresh greens. The tortoise won't allow itself to starve. It will eventually eat the greens. But to answer your question, they can go a very long time, months, without eating. That's not what we strive for, though.


Months? Can a tort put up with hunger for that long?


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## JoesMum (Jun 8, 2016)

Gillian Moore said:


> Months? Can a tort put up with hunger for that long?


Yes really

However, the reality is that it only happens when food is not available at all. 

If food is available they will eat before that, but not until they're hungry if they're being stubborn.

That's what you need to do with Oli to stop you having to hand feed him. You have to just put the food in and leave him to it. Never give in and hand feed.


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## WithLisa (Jun 8, 2016)

Gillian Moore said:


> Would you recommend my feeding Oli (my Greek tort) carrots?


I do feed carrots sometimes (once or twice a month) because they are known to help with deworming.


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## jaizei (Jun 8, 2016)

Variety is essential to fill gaps in nutrition, feeding a limited diet is not recommended because deficiencies can occur. 'Pellets' that is designed to be nutritionally complete do not have that problem. 'Pellets' are not equitable with dessert. They are arguably the better diet.


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## Anonymous (Jun 8, 2016)

Thanks guys for so many replies! I'm a bit confused thought. Some of you said just to start with pure greens and some said to mix greens and pellets together and slowly increase the greens. Which do I do?


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## JoesMum (Jun 8, 2016)

Anonymous said:


> Thanks guys for so many replies! I'm a bit confused thought. Some of you said just to start with pure greens and some said to mix greens and pellets together and slowly increase the greens. Which do I do?


Either

The mixture is a slower way of doing it. And many keepers find it less stessful for themselves as humans to do it that way. 

Just offering greens and withdrawing pellets completely is a 'short sharp shock' that some people find hard. It's quicker though because the tort gets hungry quicker.


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## Tom (Jun 9, 2016)

Anonymous said:


> Thanks guys for so many replies! I'm a bit confused thought. Some of you said just to start with pure greens and some said to mix greens and pellets together and slowly increase the greens. Which do I do?



What type of pellets are you feeding? If your pellets are of good quality, there is no hurry to solve this "problem".

Any of the advice given here can work. Different people have had different experiences, and feel better about one method or another. All of these methods can work for you.

Personally, I prefer the first method Joe's Mum recommended with gradually mixing in more and more of the new stuff over a long period of time.

Likewise, I prefer to skip carrots and fruits in most cases for the species that I keep because those foods are not "good" for them. Yes, they can eat it once in a while, but why? Instead of mixing carrot into the diet, why not fill that stomach space with another grape or mulberry leaf, or opuntia cactus pad, or dandelion, or sow thistle, or clover, or squash leaf, arugula, hibiscus leaf, gazania flower, etc…? With so many better foods to choose from, I have no use for sugary "treats", even though occasional ingestion of said "treats" will not kill the tortoise.


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## Gillian M (Jun 9, 2016)

JoesMum said:


> Yes really
> 
> However, the reality is that it only happens when food is not available at all.
> 
> ...


Thanks a lot your advise. Appreciate it.


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## Gillian M (Jun 9, 2016)

WithLisa said:


> I do feed carrots sometimes (once or twice a month) because they are known to help with deworming.


I did as well but stopped when I was advised not to. Mind you, I personally think: "This is *NOT* mathematics where 1+1=2 and *NO* two persons can disagree, here.


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## Anonymous (Jun 9, 2016)

the pellet brand that I use says: 

Protein 11%
Oil 3%
Fibre 4% 
Ash 7%

The other stuff it says includes the phone number of the creator, the weight of the food, and the name of the food: 'dry tortoise food'


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## Anonymous (Jun 9, 2016)

So today I gave her some pellets mixed with greens and it did not go we'll.... 

She just picked out all the pellets and I don't think she even ate on bit of greens. Last time, when I managed to get her to eat only greens, she would eat pellets and carrots quite well but reading over your comments about carrots I don't think that's a viable option this time round.


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## JoesMum (Jun 9, 2016)

Anonymous said:


> So today I gave her some pellets mixed with greens and it did not go we'll....
> 
> She just picked out all the pellets and I don't think she even ate on bit of greens. Last time, when I managed to get her to eat only greens, she would eat pellets and carrots quite well but reading over your comments about carrots I don't think that's a viable option this time round.


The greens must be chopped really finely and well mixed in. You have to make it so they stick to the pellets and she has no choice. 

She ate yesterday's mix. Today there will be more green and it will be harder to avoid it.


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## Anonymous (Jun 9, 2016)

Yes, boss


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## JoesMum (Jun 9, 2016)

Anonymous said:


> Yes, boss


That's what your tort will be saying soon 

Yesterday wasn't a failure. It was day 1.


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## Anonymous (Jun 11, 2016)

Ok it's going alright at the moment. She is probably eating 40:60 veg to pellets. Although the she targets the pellets she cannot avoid the greens and doesn't mind eating them. 
Out of curiosity how much should a tortoise be eating a day?


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## Tom (Jun 11, 2016)

Anonymous said:


> Ok it's going alright at the moment. She is probably eating 40:60 veg to pellets. Although the she targets the pellets she cannot avoid the greens and doesn't mind eating them.
> Out of curiosity how much should a tortoise be eating a day?



This is good news and it means our evil plan is working… MuhahahahahahahaaaaaaaAAAAAAaaaaaaaa…….

They should be able to graze all day on the correct foods.


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## Anonymous (Jun 11, 2016)

So they should be eating how much sorry...?


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## JoesMum (Jun 12, 2016)

Anonymous said:


> So they should be eating how much sorry...?


Once weaned onto greens, a mound of food roughly the size of your tort's shell is a good rough guideline. 

Tom is correct that those outdoors and grazing naturally are able to graze all day as they're constantly on the move. 

Having edible plants growing, in pots, in the enclosure can supplement what you feed and encourage browsing behaviour. A £1 tray of supermarket living lettuce makes good browse. 

Sink pots into the substrate, so the pot stands slightly proud of it. The pot lip showing discourages trampling.



Tom said:


> This is good news and it means our evil plan is working… MuhahahahahahahaaaaaaaAAAAAAaaaaaaaa…….


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## Anonymous (Jun 12, 2016)

Ok thanks, I'd say she's probably eating slightly less than her she'll a day of pellets and greens.


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## Anonymous (Jun 12, 2016)

Today she started eating the greens and not just pick out the pellets. It's probably 50:50 at the mo. I still have a few questions though. 
What are the consequences of pellets to tortoises? 
Previously we relied on the pellets and bathing her every other day to give her a source of water. She has never had a pot of water in her table. What should we do? Should we add a slab of water to her table and see if she drinks it or what? We've out water out in the past but she has never seemed to drink it, I'm just not really sure what to do...


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## JoesMum (Jun 12, 2016)

Anonymous said:


> Today she started eating the greens and not just pick out the pellets. It's probably 50:50 at the mo. I still have a few questions though.
> What are the consequences of pellets to tortoises?
> Previously we relied on the pellets and bathing her every other day to give her a source of water. She has never had a pot of water in her table. What should we do? Should we add a slab of water to her table and see if she drinks it or what? We've out water out in the past but she has never seemed to drink it, I'm just not really sure what to do...


Frankly I find it scary that she has never had water in her table!

She must have constant access to water! Get a terracotta plant saucer and sink it in to the substrate so she can wade through it and drink as she pleases. 

Reptile water bowls sold by pet stores are not suitable as torts find them difficult to drink from and they are also a tipping hazard. 

Like I said pellets do no harm any more than a diet of microwave ready-meals does you any harm. 

Freshly prepared food is better for you and greens are better for your tort.


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## Anonymous (Jun 13, 2016)

Ok. I've done that. Thanks


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## Anonymous (Jun 15, 2016)

Just a quick little update to say out great master plan is going ok. She is eating 40:60 pellets to veg with a little bit of encouragement. She now has a watter dish in her table and loves it!


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## JoesMum (Jun 15, 2016)

Anonymous said:


> Just a quick little update to say out great master plan is going ok. She is eating 40:60 pellets to veg with a little bit of encouragement. She now has a watter dish in her table and loves it!


That's good news  Well done!


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## Tom (Jun 15, 2016)

Anonymous said:


> So they should be eating how much sorry...?



I missed your question on Saturday…

They should have access to as much food as they want. Free feeding we sometimes call it.


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## JoesMum (Jun 15, 2016)

Tom said:


> I missed your question on Saturday…
> 
> They should have access to as much food as they want. Free feeding we sometimes call it.


Even when the tort was only eating pellets @Tom? Russians can be piggies. I would be happy with greens once it's weaned back onto them.


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## Tom (Jun 15, 2016)

JoesMum said:


> Even when the tort was only eating pellets @Tom? Russians can be piggies. I would be happy with greens once it's weaned back onto them.



Yes. In my experience a tortoise that is kept hungry will eat more than a tortoise that is free fed, given the chance. We use this as a training technique in other animals. I refer to it as "psychological hunger". Some working animals still have tremendous appetite and wish to gorge themselves even after a full meal. They still think they are hungry. Works in tortoises too. Its is a technique I use to get my own tortoises to eat anything I want over the long term. I frequently assert: "A picky tortoise is a hungry tortoise in my house." When they get hungry enough, they eat everything I put in front of them. And lots of it. A tortoise that is catered to and given its favorites all the time, will be picky and choosy. This could lead to health issues in the long term. Once I've got them eating the right foods, I let them have as much as they wish to graze on. If they start to get picky, I give them lots of the item they are being picky about until they stop being picky about it.

How does this relate to our OP? He/She should be in the early phases of letting his/her tortoise get hungry if it chooses to not eat the good foods mixed with the old favorite pellets. After a few months or weeks of this process, the OP's tortoise will be eating anything and everything, and at that point, the tortoise should be able to graze freely all day every day.

@Anonymous ,
May we know if you are a he or a she for typing purposes when we refer to, or address you? No need to answer if you wish to remain completely anonymous.

{  See what I did there?}


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## RosemaryDW (Jun 15, 2016)

Tom said:


> If they start to get picky, I give them lots of the item they are being picky about until they stop being picky about it.


Interesting! When mine gets focused on a certain food, I take it out of rotation but I haven't gone the other way with the "non" favorites.


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## Anonymous (Jun 15, 2016)

Lol, I'm liking those puns. This are interesting ideas. For future reference I'm a he, my tortoise is a she (I think) and she is called Mani.


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## Anonymous (Jun 19, 2016)

Ok so today I tried giving her pure greens and she was so close to eating them. She tried to take a bite but missed a decent shot and so she gave up. I put her back in front of the greens after she walked away but she just ignored them. Maybe next time....


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## JoesMum (Jun 19, 2016)

Once you get to 100%, you need to stop chopping so small. It's easier for a tort to eat greens that they can put a foot on and tear at


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