# Heartbroken and need to vent to ppl who understand



## TortloverPM (Dec 6, 2020)

A lil background new home owner and sulcata owner. I thought I did everything right I joined this site, did as much research as i cud to give our adopted tortoise a better home than he came from the best we cud. Abt a year later now all is well hes happy and healthy and we love him more everyday. Until Friday when our County code enforcement shows up and let's us know we have until Monday to take down his enclosure. Which no enclosure no tortoise. #1 Hes a member of our family #2 Rehoming a 80lb sulcata cannot b done in 2 days. Rehoming any pet for that matter. With Covid I has lost my job for a while etc so it is not financially possible to fence our property for him, or pay the almost $1000 in fines he listed to us. Nor he can he live on a concrete slab they told us we needed for him. Sorry this is so long I just needed to get it off my chest. I thought I did my homework. This stuff is why we steered clear of HOAs and all that I had no idea. So even if this can help someone else not make the mistakes I did I'll be happy to have some good come of this. Right now I dont know what to do. Thankyou for listening/reading. OP


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## KarenSoCal (Dec 6, 2020)

Oh, this is awful! I don't have any help for you, but please know that I am so very sorry about it. Sending hugs to you! ? ? ?? I will be praying that some resolution is found that he can stay with you. ?


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## Maggie3fan (Dec 6, 2020)

Terrible!!! But there are a number of TFO members who are in Florida, maybe one could foster your Sulcata for a bit. I am assuming that your tort has a fence and a heated night box? Just trying to work around a HOA, he's 80 lbs, so you've had him for a while for him to grow to 80 lbs, the HOA is just now seeing his pen? Maybe somebody complained about the tort?


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## Pastel Tortie (Dec 6, 2020)

@mastershake Know anybody who can take in an 80 lbs sulcata from Cape Coral?


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## Maro2Bear (Dec 6, 2020)

TortloverPM said:


> A lil background new home owner and sulcata owner. I thought I did everything right I joined this site, did as much research as i cud to give our adopted tortoise a better home than he came from the best we cud. Abt a year later now all is well hes happy and healthy and we love him more everyday. Until Friday when our County code enforcement shows up and let's us know we have until Monday to take down his enclosure. Which no enclosure no tortoise. #1 Hes a member of our family #2 Rehoming a 80lb sulcata cannot b done in 2 days. Rehoming any pet for that matter. With Covid I has lost my job for a while etc so it is not financially possible to fence our property for him, or pay the almost $1000 in fines he listed to us. Nor he can he live on a concrete slab they told us we needed for him. Sorry this is so long I just needed to get it off my chest. I thought I did my homework. This stuff is why we steered clear of HOAs and all that I had no idea. So even if this can help someone else not make the mistakes I did I'll be happy to have some good come of this. Right now I dont know what to do. Thankyou for listening/reading. OP



Do you know if this is a NEW COUNTY Regulation, or one that has been on the books before you bought the house and moved there? Seems odd for the County to now come knocking on your door with the violation. Did a neighbor complain? Is it the “style” of fence they dislike or the material or height, etc. Darn regulations like this, not an HOA but a County regulation.....(who reads all of those?)


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## Ink (Dec 6, 2020)

I am sorry about the county coming after you. I didn't think a tortoise enclosure would be cause for a fine. Some neighbor must be board to call the county on a tortoise. Good luck


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## Maggie3fan (Dec 6, 2020)

TortloverPM said:


> A lil background new home owner and sulcata owner. I thought I did everything right I joined this site, did as much research as i cud to give our adopted tortoise a better home than he came from the best we cud. Abt a year later now all is well hes happy and healthy and we love him more everyday. Until Friday when our County code enforcement shows up and let's us know we have until Monday to take down his enclosure. Which no enclosure no tortoise. #1 Hes a member of our family #2 Rehoming a 80lb sulcata cannot b done in 2 days. Rehoming any pet for that matter. With Covid I has lost my job for a while etc so it is not financially possible to fence our property for him, or pay the almost $1000 in fines he listed to us. Nor he can he live on a concrete slab they told us we needed for him. Sorry this is so long I just needed to get it off my chest. I thought I did my homework. This stuff is why we steered clear of HOAs and all that I had no idea. So even if this can help someone else not make the mistakes I did I'll be happy to have some good come of this. Right now I dont know what to do. Thankyou for listening/reading. OP


So what's your status? How can we help?


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## TortloverPM (Dec 6, 2020)

Thankyou 


KarenSoCal said:


> Oh, this is awful! I don't have any help for you, but please know that I am so very sorry about it. Sending hugs to you! ? ? ?? I will be praying that some resolution is found that he can stay with you. ?





KarenSoCal said:


> Oh, this is awful! I don't have any help for you, but please know that I am so very sorry about it. Sending hugs to you! ? ? ?? I will be praying that some resolution is found that he can stay with you. ?


Thankyou I know u guys get it. Only resolution I can think of is to fence our property which just isnt financially possible and he didnt exactly give us a whole lot of time .by tom morning he will b chilling in the garage while I'm at work making a million phone calls to rescues I suppose. See this isnt even enough time to wrap my head around this let alone have a gameplan. So stressed.


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## TortloverPM (Dec 6, 2020)

maggie3fan said:


> Terrible!!! But there are a number of TFO members who are in Florida, maybe one could foster your Sulcata for a bit. I am assuming that your tort has a fence and a heated night box? Just trying to work around a HOA, he's 80 lbs, so you've had him for a while for him to grow to 80 lbs, the HOA is just now seeing his pen? Maybe somebody complained about the tort?


Sorry my post wasnt that clear since I was venting no HOA it is Lee County Code enforcement. Since our property isnt fenced we built an outdoor enclosure and a tort house for him and apparently u need all kinds of permits and the guy was saying it needed concrete slab foundation n all types of stuff . I was seeing red at that point but I remember that and approx $800 worth of fines he rattled off. We've only had him abt a year old owners were moving north and weren't taking him so we did. We have a new neighbor rt beside us in a newly built house sp either them or the CEO just happened to see it cuz the rest of our 4 neighbors really seem to like him and think hes neat (from the one time he went gallivanting around the neighborhood). ?


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## TortloverPM (Dec 6, 2020)

Maro2Bear said:


> Do you know if this is a NEW COUNTY Regulation, or one that has been on the books before you bought the house and moved there? Seems odd for the County to now come knocking on your door with the violation. Did a neighbor complain? Is it the “style” of fence they dislike or the material or height, etc. Darn regulations like this, not an HOA but a County regulation.....(who reads all of those?)


Apparently not me. Lol maybe neighbor that just built their house on our houses lap. All others neighbors really liked him. They met him when he escaped and took a lil hike around the neighborhood. Who knows nobodys going to say they did it either way. Does anyone know of a good tort rescue in swfl? I wud try to find him a good home but that wud take time and I'm out of time ?


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## TortloverPM (Dec 6, 2020)

Ink said:


> I am sorry about the county coming after you. I didn't think a tortoise enclosure would be cause for a fine. Some neighbor must be board to call the county o
> Thx apparently u need a permit for literally anything and everything must b up to hurricane code and have a concrete slab foundation etc etc or we'll fine u like $1000. I never thought it wud b a big deal what I choose to do in my own backyard. If anyone knows of a tort rescue that is reputable plz lmk. Idk what else to do with such short notice.


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## TortloverPM (Dec 6, 2020)

maggie3fan said:


> So what's your status? How can we help?


If anyone knows a reputable tort rescue? I dont know what else to do. Sulcatas are a big responsibility especially an 80lb one (as u guys know prob even more than me)so it was impossible to find him a good home in 2 days. Any other ideas anyone has I'm open to it. I'm off to Google codes and tort rescues. Thx again everyone!


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## Pastel Tortie (Dec 6, 2020)

TortloverPM said:


> If anyone knows a reputable tort rescue? I dont know what else to do. Sulcatas are a big responsibility especially an 80lb one (as u guys know prob even more than me)so it was impossible to find him a good home in 2 days. Any other ideas anyone has I'm open to it. I'm off to Google codes and tort rescues. Thx again everyone!


Sent you a PM. There's a good one not too far north of you.


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## Canadian Mojo (Dec 6, 2020)

How about buying yourself some time with an appeal? You can claim his enclosure is no different than a doghouse which is probably an unregulated structure that doesn't require a foundation or permit. 

I'm assuming that defending yourself would be free, put everything on hold so you don't accumulate more fines, and that it would give you a chance (if you don't win) to run out the clock enough to fix the problem or get him re-homed. This close to Christmas/New Years + COVID might really delay hearings for long time.

I'm sure the folks here will give you all sorts of help with good sources for proper care info you can use and the county bylaws are almost certainly online.


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## TortloverPM (Dec 6, 2020)

Maro2Bear said:


> Do you know if this is a NEW COUNTY Regulation, or one that has been on the books before you bought the house and moved there? Seems odd for the County to now come knocking on your door with the violation. Did a neighbor complain? Is it the “style” of fence they dislike or the material or height, etc. Darn regulations like this, not an HOA but a County regulation.....(who reads all of those?)





Pastel Tortie said:


> Sent you a PM. There's a good one not too far north of you.


Thankyou


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## TortloverPM (Dec 6, 2020)

Canadian Mojo said:


> How about buying yourself some time with an appeal? You can claim his enclosure is no different than a doghouse which is probably an unregulated structure that doesn't require a foundation or permit.
> 
> I'm assuming that defending yourself would be free, put everything on hold so you don't accumulate more fines, and that it would give you a chance (if you don't win) to run out the clock enough to fix the problem or get him re-homed. This close to Christmas/New Years + COVID might really delay hearings for long time.
> 
> I'm sure the folks here will give you all sorts of help with good sources for proper care info you can use and the county bylaws are almost certainly online.


That's an idea I didnt even know that was a thing , to appeal that is. I'll look into it. I ges I can find some type of defense. I dont think its the "house" as much as the enclosure "walls" the guy was acting like we were building a diy human house or something idk I just read that those plastic sheds u buy at home depot or lowes etc.. well u need a permit to have one so I wouldn't even be surprised if u need one for a doghouse too. Smh


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## Guts (Dec 6, 2020)

I’m with Mojo on this one, pitch an absolute fit and read up on permit requirements in the meantime. You should not have to give your boy up over this bs, he’ll be fine in the garage for a bit while everything gets sorted.


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## NorCal tortoise guy (Dec 6, 2020)

that’s just crazy I would want out of a county with codes like that! What happened to freedom and reasonable people?!?!


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## TortloverPM (Dec 7, 2020)

NorCal tortoise guy said:


> that’s just crazy I would want out of a county with codes like that! What happened to freedom and reasonable people?!?!


We would have never bought here if we had any idea it was this way. Hes doing no harm. His enclosure isnt shabby looking but if it was it's my yard dont look.


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## TortloverPM (Dec 7, 2020)

Guts said:


> I’m with Mojo on this one, pitch an absolute fit and read up on permit requirements in the meantime. You should not have to give your boy up over this bs, he’ll be fine in the garage for a bit while everything gets sorted.


An 80lb bulldozer in the garage. This is gna b fun I'm sure. I'll keep everyone updated. Thanks again.


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## Maggie3fan (Dec 7, 2020)

TortloverPM said:


> An 80lb bulldozer in the garage. This is gna b fun I'm sure. I'll keep everyone updated. Thanks again.


Well, be sure to keep us posted and tell us if we can help please


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## Maro2Bear (Dec 7, 2020)

Greetings again. Maybe upload some pictures of your back garden/tortoise yard area. Maybe we can come up with some ideas. Concrete “retaining” walls - call them flower beds - might be an option. These can be purchased pretty cheaply, moved by hand and into place. 

There has to be an “appeal” process. Cant believe they can demand such harsh removal w/o offering an appeal. 

good luck


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## Pastel Tortie (Dec 7, 2020)

@TortloverPM I sent you a link in the PM, but I'll include it here too. Your local help society may have some suggestions on how to deal with the local government. 




__





Calusa Herpetological Society






www.calusaherp.org





If someone can figure out what really set them off, it may help may help with figuring out what to do or say to get them to stand down. 

What does the flood zone look like where you live? 

By any chance, did you consult an electrician to run power to the night box? If that kind of thing would help, a licensed electrician is probably less expensive than the fines. You may be able to use it as a bargaining chip in negotiating with local government.


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## Tom (Dec 7, 2020)

I've never heard of such non-sense. I know of no place in the country that has codes for a tortoise enclosure. That is none of their business. And why would you need concrete? That will damage the feet and plastron and injure your tortoise!

I'd be all over this A-hole. Who is this person, who is their boss, what the hell are they talking about? Fight this. This is total BS. I thought CA was the worst place in the country for stuff like this. Never heard of it in FL. People move to FL to get away from tyranny like this. Ask to see the statutes that are allegedly being violated. I call BS. No way is this legit. You are being harassed and hassled for some reason.


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## TammyJ (Dec 7, 2020)

Canadian Mojo said:


> How about buying yourself some time with an appeal? You can claim his enclosure is no different than a doghouse which is probably an unregulated structure that doesn't require a foundation or permit.
> 
> I'm assuming that defending yourself would be free, put everything on hold so you don't accumulate more fines, and that it would give you a chance (if you don't win) to run out the clock enough to fix the problem or get him re-homed. This close to Christmas/New Years + COVID might really delay hearings for long time.
> 
> I'm sure the folks here will give you all sorts of help with good sources for proper care info you can use and the county bylaws are almost certainly online.


Totally like this...fight it!!!


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## TammyJ (Dec 7, 2020)

Tom said:


> I've never heard of such non-sense. I know of no place in the country that has codes for a tortoise enclosure. That is none of their business. And why would you need concrete? That will damage the feet and plastron and injure your tortoise!
> 
> I'd be all over this A-hole. Who is this person, who is their boss, what the hell are they talking about? Fight this. This is total BS. I thought CA was the worst place in the country for stuff like this. Never heard of it in FL. People move to FL to get away from tyranny like this. Ask to see the statutes that are allegedly being violated. I call BS. No way is this legit. You are being harassed and hassled for some reason.


100% AGREE.


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## Toddrickfl1 (Dec 7, 2020)

TortloverPM said:


> A lil background new home owner and sulcata owner. I thought I did everything right I joined this site, did as much research as i cud to give our adopted tortoise a better home than he came from the best we cud. Abt a year later now all is well hes happy and healthy and we love him more everyday. Until Friday when our County code enforcement shows up and let's us know we have until Monday to take down his enclosure. Which no enclosure no tortoise. #1 Hes a member of our family #2 Rehoming a 80lb sulcata cannot b done in 2 days. Rehoming any pet for that matter. With Covid I has lost my job for a while etc so it is not financially possible to fence our property for him, or pay the almost $1000 in fines he listed to us. Nor he can he live on a concrete slab they told us we needed for him. Sorry this is so long I just needed to get it off my chest. I thought I did my homework. This stuff is why we steered clear of HOAs and all that I had no idea. So even if this can help someone else not make the mistakes I did I'll be happy to have some good come of this. Right now I dont know what to do. Thankyou for listening/reading. OP


Terrible, If you decide to fight this and need help with legal fees/new construction maybe consider a go fund me. If you do post the link here. Good luck!


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## FrankIinTheTortoise (Dec 7, 2020)

I'd go rip out their heart but they're already heartless ?


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## vladimir (Dec 7, 2020)

Also, how much would a fence cost?


Toddrickfl1 said:


> Terrible, If you decide to fight this and need help with legal fees/new construction maybe consider a go fund me. If you do post the link here. Good luck!




Worst case, how much would a fence cost to shut them up?


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## TortloverPM (Dec 7, 2020)

Will do Thankyou


maggie3fan said:


> Well, be sure to keep us posted and tell us if we can help please


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## Aloysius Taschse (Dec 7, 2020)

This is awful - some people are just angry and messed-up inside. I would go full on finding everything I could do to stop it from happening - things like getting by law codes because they only specify a certain thing. Anyways, I hope you can work this out in another more peaceful and less time-consuming way than my idea. Hopefully your tort and you can stay together and also hopefully the HOA (quite a stupid organization sometimes, I heard this story about somebody who painted their house a color that wasn't on their list and literally got a notice that if they didn't repaint it they would be kicked out of the house) finally realizes that there is no harm with a peaceful tort hanging out in a yard and that they don't need to make EVERY single thing so big. Seriously, it's a tortoise - or a house color!


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## TortloverPM (Dec 7, 2020)

Tom said:


> I've never heard of such non-sense. I know of no place in the country that has codes for a tortoise enclosure. That is none of their business. And why would you need concrete? That will damage the feet and plastron and injure your tortoise!
> 
> I'd be all over this A-hole. Who is this person, who is their boss, what the hell are they talking about? Fight this. This is total BS. I thought CA was the worst place in the country for stuff like this. Never heard of it in FL. People move to FL to get away from tyranny like this. Ask to see the statutes that are allegedly being violated. I call BS. No way is this legit. You are being harassed and hassled for some reason.


I agree completely. Why tho I have no idea we're quiet, never been in trouble, our neighbors like us (as far as I know) and they all were amazed with him they thought hes neat. And I spent a good amount of money finishing the outside of the walls with 2x12s etc just to make sure it wasnt an eyesore. And it's not the tort that's the problem nor the fact that it's a tort enclosure it's a 4 walled structure that we did without any permits (didnt know I needed anything like that) but apparently we needed permits, it has to b compliant with hurricane codes and something abt a 4 walled structure needing concrete slab foundation? We avoided HOAs like the plague cuz we mind our business and we didnt want as anyone telling us what to do with our house, lawn/yard etc.. I just got off work so I'm gna look into the codes and how to appeal, price of fence etc. I'm glad u guys all think this is as crazy and ridiculous as I do. He acted like this was all common knowledge. Oh and when I googled it a lil bit on my break. I read this. Let me find out how to post this screenshot. Read definition of animal. This is the kind of ppl we r dealing with. That sentence further ruined my faith in humanity


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## TortloverPM (Dec 7, 2020)

Aloysius Taschse said:


> This is awful - some people are just angry and messed-up inside. I would go full on finding everything I could do to stop it from happening - things like getting by law codes because they only specify a certain thing. Anyways, I hope you can work this out in another more peaceful and less time-consuming way than my idea. Hopefully your tort and you can stay together and also hopefully the HOA (quite a stupid organization sometimes, I heard this story about somebody who painted their house a color that wasn't on their list and literally got a notice that if they didn't repaint it they would be kicked out of the house) finally realizes that there is no harm with a peaceful tort hanging out in a yard and that they don't need to make EVERY single thing so big. Seriously, it's a tortoise - or a house color!


Thankyou no HOA tho County Code Enforcement. We steered clear of HOAs to avoid this stuff but here we r. Ugh.


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## Aloysius Taschse (Dec 7, 2020)

Oh. Still both are bad groups of people and makes me go "ugh" and "why!". I'm sure this will end up fine and you and your tort can be together. Until then, we are here for you!


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## TortloverPM (Dec 7, 2020)

vladimir said:


> Also, how much would a fence cost?
> 
> 
> 
> Worst case, how much would a fence cost to shut them up?


Thankyou I just got off work so I'm heading back to google to look into all this. If I had the money I'd apply for the permit and put up a fence absolutely I have to look further into the cost cuz with Covid I was out of work for a while and yeah just dont have it.


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## Maro2Bear (Dec 7, 2020)

TortloverPM said:


> I agree completely. Why tho I have no idea we're quiet, never been in trouble, our neighbors like us (as far as I know) and they all were amazed with him they thought hes neat. And I spent a good amount of money finishing the outside of the walls with 2x12s etc just to make sure it wasnt an eyesore. And it's not the tort that's the problem nor the fact that it's a tort enclosure it's a 4 walled structure that we did without any permits (didnt know I needed anything like that) but apparently we needed permits, it has to b compliant with hurricane codes and something abt a 4 walled structure needing concrete slab foundation? We avoided HOAs like the plague cuz we mind our business and we didnt want as anyone telling us what to do with our house, lawn/yard etc.. I just got off work so I'm gna look into the codes and how to appeal, price of fence etc. I'm glad u guys all think this is as crazy and ridiculous as I do. He acted like this was all common knowledge. Oh and when I googled it a lil bit on my break. I read this. Let me find out how to post this screenshot. Read definition of animal. This is the kind of ppl we r dealing with. That sentence further ruined my faith in humanity



Wonder how they deal with a basic “dog house”..... You should call some local TV station with a consumer advocate type department. Go on TV lambasting goofy county regs for an animal’s house...


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## TortloverPM (Dec 7, 2020)

Maro2Bear said:


> Greetings again. Maybe upload some pictures of your back garden/tortoise yard area. Maybe we can come up with some ideas. Concrete “retaining” walls - call them flower beds - might be an option. These can be purchased pretty cheaply, moved by hand and into place.
> 
> There has to be an “appeal” process. Cant believe they can demand such harsh removal w/o offering an appeal.
> 
> good luck


I will put retaining walls on my "to google "list. I texted my best friend/roommate hasn't gotten back to me yet he was gna take enclosure down and move him to garage just so it looks like were complying until we can figure this out. Once I get home I will see what's going on and if I can find pics of it.


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## Maro2Bear (Dec 7, 2020)

TortloverPM said:


> I will put retaining walls on my "to google "list. I texted my best friend/roommate hasn't gotten back to me yet he was gna take enclosure down and move him to garage just so it looks like were complying until we can figure this out. Once I get home I will see what's going on and if I can find pics of it.



good luck


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## TortloverPM (Dec 7, 2020)

Pastel Tortie said:


> @TortloverPM I sent you a link in the PM, but I'll include it here too. Your local help society may have some suggestions on how to deal with the local government.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thankyou I will def check into that as well. No electricity in his house/nightbox. Doesnt get that cold here we were just planning to bring him into the garage for the cold nights or use our electric to run his. I had just spent the money building his enclosure and house and Covid hit and my job shut down and things are ok but not how they were when I cud spend $ like that.


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## Maro2Bear (Dec 7, 2020)

TortloverPM said:


> I will put retaining walls on my "to google "list. I texted my best friend/roommate hasn't gotten back to me yet he was gna take enclosure down and move him to garage just so it looks like were complying until we can figure this out. Once I get home I will see what's going on and if I can find pics of it.



This type....easy to relocate/build with - just need it high enough -https://www.lowes.com/pd/Grey-Retaining-Wall-Block-Common-4-in-x-12-in-Actual-4-in-x-11-5-in/50289717


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## TortloverPM (Dec 7, 2020)

Maro2Bear said:


> Wonder how they deal with a basic “dog house”..... You should call some local TV station with a consumer advocate type department. Go on TV lambasting goofy county regs for an animal’s house...


I think the house is fine just the walls that's the issue idk tho u need a permit for one of those already built small plastic sheds u buy at like home depot. So it wudnt suprise me if u need a permit for a doghouse too.


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## Maro2Bear (Dec 7, 2020)

TortloverPM said:


> I think the house is fine just the walls that's the issue idk tho u need a permit for one of those already built small plastic sheds u buy at like home depot. So it wudnt suprise me if u need a permit for a doghouse too.



TBH - i guess they don’t want ramshackle non-secure “sheds“ blowing about during hurricanes....

good luck


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## Tom (Dec 7, 2020)

TortloverPM said:


> I agree completely. Why tho I have no idea we're quiet, never been in trouble, our neighbors like us (as far as I know) and they all were amazed with him they thought hes neat. And I spent a good amount of money finishing the outside of the walls with 2x12s etc just to make sure it wasnt an eyesore. And it's not the tort that's the problem nor the fact that it's a tort enclosure it's a 4 walled structure that we did without any permits (didnt know I needed anything like that) but apparently we needed permits, it has to b compliant with hurricane codes and something abt a 4 walled structure needing concrete slab foundation? We avoided HOAs like the plague cuz we mind our business and we didnt want as anyone telling us what to do with our house, lawn/yard etc.. I just got off work so I'm gna look into the codes and how to appeal, price of fence etc. I'm glad u guys all think this is as crazy and ridiculous as I do. He acted like this was all common knowledge. Oh and when I googled it a lil bit on my break. I read this. Let me find out how to post this screenshot. Read definition of animal. This is the kind of ppl we r dealing with. That sentence further ruined my faith in humanity


What size structure are we talking about? Can we see a pic? Is a dog house a "four walled" structure to them? What about a Tuff Shed? Need a permit for that?


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## queen koopa (Dec 7, 2020)

Tom said:


> I've never heard of such non-sense. I know of no place in the country that has codes for a tortoise enclosure. That is none of their business. And why would you need concrete? That will damage the feet and plastron and injure your tortoise!
> 
> I'd be all over this A-hole. Who is this person, who is their boss, what the hell are they talking about? Fight this. This is total BS. I thought CA was the worst place in the country for stuff like this. Never heard of it in FL. People move to FL to get away from tyranny like this. Ask to see the statutes that are allegedly being violated. I call BS. No way is this legit. You are being harassed and hassled for some reason.


I agree. Major bs. In many states people own dogs and cats with no fence requirements. Really think something missing here


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## turtlesteve (Dec 7, 2020)

I still am having a hard time following. It sounds like they are OK with the tortoise pen, but he has a night box that is being called a structure that was built without permitting? Or is the box OK, but the enclosure walls are being called a structure? Did they give you anything in writing? I would call someone in code enforcement (or look up the local ordinances) to get a clear definition on what defines a structure versus what doesn't. I'm completely confused at this point though...


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## TortloverPM (Dec 8, 2020)

No and I do understand that just the way it all happened just sucks we love him and also I dont like being told what I can do in my own yard ya know.


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## TortloverPM (Dec 8, 2020)

Correct me if 


Maro2Bear said:


> Greetings again. Maybe upload some pictures of your back garden/tortoise yard area. Maybe we can come up with some ideas. Concrete “retaining” walls - call them flower beds - might be an option. These can be purchased pretty cheaply, moved by hand and into place.
> 
> There has to be an “appeal” process. Cant believe they can demand such harsh removal w/o offering an appeal.
> 
> good luck


Correct me if I'm wrong but I could only appeal if actually fined with a violation right? We agreed( in the moment ) to take it down by Monday so we wouldn't get one. So not sure how that's gna work?


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## TortloverPM (Dec 8, 2020)

Sorry guys after being


turtlesteve said:


> I still am having a hard time following. It sounds like they are OK with the tortoise pen, but he has a night box that is being called a structure that was built without permitting? Or is the box OK, but the enclosure walls are being called a structure? Did they give you anything in writing? I would call someone in code enforcement (or look up the local ordinances) to get a clear definition on what defines a structure versus what doesn't. I'm completely confused at this point though...


Sorry I am too I was very upset at the time plus not being familiar with codes it was alot to take in. But it is the walls that is the problem. His house was homemade diy also but basically like a large wooden dog house with slight modifications to fit a tort. From what I've been able to read online outdoor dog areas/enclosures/runs have to be no larger than 100 square feet and chain link type fencing. Which neither will do for a tort. I'm still trying to research it more to try to find a way around it.


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## Maro2Bear (Dec 8, 2020)

TortloverPM said:


> Sorry guys after being
> 
> Sorry I am too I was very upset at the time plus not being familiar with codes it was alot to take in. But it is the walls that is the problem. His house was homemade diy also but basically like a large wooden dog house with slight modifications to fit a tort. From what I've been able to read online outdoor dog areas/enclosures/runs have to be no larger than 100 square feet and chain link type fencing. Which neither will do for a tort. I'm still trying to research it more to try to find a way around it.



You could still put up chain link fence, but just along the ground level, keep your wooden perimeter as a sight barrier. No?


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## Mikki (Dec 8, 2020)

TortloverPM said:


> Thankyou
> 
> 
> Thankyou I know u guys get it. Only resolution I can think of is to fence our property which just isnt financially possible and he didnt exactly give us a whole lot of time .by tom morning he will b chilling in the garage while I'm at work making a million phone calls to rescues I suppose. See this isnt even enough time to wrap my head around this let alone have a gameplan. So stressed.


I am in Florida.. What county do you live in? Also I have seen enclosures that a few people made which were actually underground.. They dug down, lined with block, insulated and covered it back up.. All you see in the actual entrance for the tort and nothing else.. It is very well insulated and I can show you the posts on facebook, and you can even talk to the owner who made it.. It did not cost a lot of money actually and it would be cheaper than a fence.. I would love to talk to you.. If you are close to the Tampa Bay area, my husband and I would offer our help to you and volunteer some material you need.. Please if you can, email me at [email protected]. This can be fixed, and you can keep your baby!


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## Mikki (Dec 8, 2020)

Maro2Bear said:


> You could still put up chain link fence, but just along the ground level, keep your wooden perimeter as a sight barrier. No?


absolutely you can ask for an extension also.. They always give extensions..


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## Duckster RT (Dec 8, 2020)

Did they say you can keep it if the enclosure is fixed to code. And you pay a 1000 dollar fine?


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## Duckster RT (Dec 8, 2020)

Try to stall them. For a little more time. Fix the code problems. Is there a a 1000 dollar fine? If so I can try to help you with that. Idk how but I I’ll figure something out.


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## Duckster RT (Dec 8, 2020)

I’m an electrician. Going to my Florida house soon. I don’t know how far you are from Port St. Lucy.


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## Duckster RT (Dec 8, 2020)

Either way best wishes!


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## vladimir (Dec 8, 2020)

Duckster RT said:


> Try to stall them. For a little more time. Fix the code problems. Is there a a 1000 dollar fine? If so I can try to help you with that. Idk how but I I’ll figure something out.



Between everyone on here we can come up with a solution  

Are you able to post some photos of the area that they have a problem with?


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## Duckster RT (Dec 8, 2020)

vladimir said:


> Between everyone on here we can come up with a solution
> 
> Are you able to post some photos of the area that they have a problem with?


I’m not the person with the problem.


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## Duckster RT (Dec 8, 2020)

Duckster RT said:


> I’m not the person with the problem.


I might have sent you by mistake


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## TortloverPM (Dec 8, 2020)

Cant keep wooden structure my roommate already took it down n set him up in garage since I've been working. and it can only b 100 square feet max which wont work. I have tom off so I can spend the time to really look into all this n go from there. These r ppl who define an animal as " any living dumb creature " so I'm not gtn my hopes up. I really appreciate all the support from everyone here tho . It helps just to kinda talk it thru. I cant believe no one else has had any similar experiences tho. It cant just b my county. And unless we put enclosure back up get violation and fine I cant appeal nothing and then if I lose that's alot of money and they can put a lien on ur house and everything. It's like the more I read and learn the worse it gets 


Maro2Bear said:


> You could still put up chain link fence, but just along the ground level, keep your wooden perimeter as a sight barrier. No?


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## TortloverPM (Dec 8, 2020)

Duckster RT said:


> I might have sent you by mistake


That's an amazing offer but I couldn't. Let me see if I have a pic of it so u can get an idea.


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## Canadian Mojo (Dec 8, 2020)

TortloverPM said:


> Sorry guys after being
> 
> Sorry I am too I was very upset at the time plus not being familiar with codes it was alot to take in. But it is the walls that is the problem. His house was homemade diy also but basically like a large wooden dog house with slight modifications to fit a tort. From what I've been able to read online outdoor dog areas/enclosures/runs have to be no larger than 100 square feet and chain link type fencing. Which neither will do for a tort. I'm still trying to research it more to try to find a way around it.


So a 'kennel' structure can only be 10x10, but you can let your dog run around a fenced backyard, right?

Make him his 10x10 kennel, with a gate into the fenced yard. Hell, with a proper 'official' enclosure to live in, the low block fence you're currently using might just count as a garden structure/design element.


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## turtlesteve (Dec 8, 2020)

Yeah that’s what I was thinking. Make a garden wall or some other barrier that does not fit their definition of a structure or kennel. They did not write this ordinance with tortoises in mind and I’m sure there is a loophole there. You need to review the exact wording of whatever code or ordinance applies in this case.


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## Laura W (Dec 9, 2020)

I'd do everything I could to keep him hidden until you can figure out a way to comply or during appeal process. If they don't see him, they don't know hes there. They can't go into your garage w/o permission. If not possible, I'd look at foster before rehoming if you want to keep him.


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## queen koopa (Dec 9, 2020)

Is there any pics of the enclosure and yard areas?


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## William Lee Kohler (Dec 10, 2020)

maggie3fan said:


> Terrible!!! But there are a number of TFO members who are in Florida, maybe one could foster your Sulcata for a bit. I am assuming that your tort has a fence and a heated night box? Just trying to work around a HOA, he's 80 lbs, so you've had him for a while for him to grow to 80 lbs, the HOA is just now seeing his pen? Maybe somebody complained about the tort?



He said they stayed away from damned HOAs. They royally need to be outlawed anyway.


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## tortoisenana (Dec 10, 2020)

TortloverPM said:


> I agree completely. Why tho I have no idea we're quiet, never been in trouble, our neighbors like us (as far as I know) and they all were amazed with him they thought hes neat. And I spent a good amount of money finishing the outside of the walls with 2x12s etc just to make sure it wasnt an eyesore. And it's not the tort that's the problem nor the fact that it's a tort enclosure it's a 4 walled structure that we did without any permits (didnt know I needed anything like that) but apparently we needed permits, it has to b compliant with hurricane codes and something abt a 4 walled structure needing concrete slab foundation? We avoided HOAs like the plague cuz we mind our business and we didnt want as anyone telling us what to do with our house, lawn/yard etc.. I just got off work so I'm gna look into the codes and how to appeal, price of fence etc. I'm glad u guys all think this is as crazy and ridiculous as I do. He acted like this was all common knowledge. Oh and when I googled it a lil bit on my break. I read this. Let me find out how to post this screenshot. Read definition of animal. This is the kind of ppl we r dealing with. That sentence further ruined my faith in humanity


This doesn't include tortoises ( at least not mine) as they are NOT dumb creatures! If they were we wouldn't need to constantly try to out smart them when they decide they don't want to stay in their enclosure!


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## TammyJ (Dec 10, 2020)

Is there a problem with posting pictures so we can see what is there?


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## Sue Ann (Dec 10, 2020)

Ink said:


> I am sorry about the county coming after you. I didn't think a tortoise enclosure would be cause for a fine. Some neighbor must be board to call the county on a tortoise. Good luck


Probably all the noise the tort makes. Late night barking and all ! Send a photo of his enclosure


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## Sue Ann (Dec 10, 2020)

TortloverPM said:


> That's an idea I didnt even know that was a thing , to appeal that is. I'll look into it. I ges I can find some type of defense. I dont think its the "house" as much as the enclosure "walls" the guy was acting like we were building a diy human house or something idk I just read that those plastic sheds u buy at home depot or lowes etc.. well u need a permit to have one so I wouldn't even be surprised if u need one for a doghouse too. Smh


Definitely appeal and get a copy of the regulation and it’s exact wording. Request a copy of the complaint.
Please send photos maybe we can make suggestions


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## maureen allenza (Dec 10, 2020)

TortloverPM said:


> A lil background new home owner and sulcata owner. I thought I did everything right I joined this site, did as much research as i cud to give our adopted tortoise a better home than he came from the best we cud. Abt a year later now all is well hes happy and healthy and we love him more everyday. Until Friday when our County code enforcement shows up and let's us know we have until Monday to take down his enclosure. Which no enclosure no tortoise. #1 Hes a member of our family #2 Rehoming a 80lb sulcata cannot b done in 2 days. Rehoming any pet for that matter. With Covid I has lost my job for a while etc so it is not financially possible to fence our property for him, or pay the almost $1000 in fines he listed to us. Nor he can he live on a concrete slab they told us we needed for him. Sorry this is so long I just needed to get it off my chest. I thought I did my homework. This stuff is why we steered clear of HOAs and all that I had no idea. So even if this can help someone else not make the mistakes I did I'll be happy to have some good come of this. Right now I dont know what to do. Thankyou for listening/reading. OP


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