# Uva or Uvb whats the difference do i need both???



## mrblue2008 (May 18, 2010)

Right went shopping today got a few things for my new tort house, lights i found a bit tricky, way too many lights for reptiles, day, night desert etc!!!!

my tort house will be inside for this year, so do i require
Uva or Uvb whats the difference & what do they actually do?

also what size heat bulb? so many different ones, its for sulcatas 

thought i would ask people on here as your all experts & your advice is A*

thanks everyone


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## Maggie Cummings (May 18, 2010)

Faced with a huge range of light bulbs in a pet store, there is sometimes confusion over which is the best kind to get. Make sure you get a full spectrum light, that produces more than 1.1 % UVB.Over time, the production of UVB diminishes, and UVB bulbs should be replaced every 9-12 months.

For those species that require a UVB producing light, another source of light is generally required, as either a source of bright white light and/or heat. When placing the various heating and lighting elements, they need to work together. Place the UV lights and the basking light at the same side of the enclosure, or the reptile might spend its time basking and be to far away from the UVB lamp to reap its benefits.


I use Trex 100 watt UVB bulb for my small tortoises that are inside. Then for Bob I use a Trex 250 watt bulb. Than I add a 100 watt regular incandescent bulb for my inside guys as I only use the Trex bulb for a few hours every other day or so...I hope this helps you as I know it can be confusing.


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## mrblue2008 (May 18, 2010)

maggie3fan said:


> Faced with a huge range of light bulbs in a pet store, there is sometimes confusion over which is the best kind to get. Make sure you get a full spectrum light, that produces more than 1.1 % UVB.Over time, the production of UVB diminishes, and UVB bulbs should be replaced every 9-12 months.
> 
> For those species that require a UVB producing light, another source of light is generally required, as either a source of bright white light and/or heat. When placing the various heating and lighting elements, they need to work together. Place the UV lights and the basking light at the same side of the enclosure, or the reptile might spend its time basking and be to far away from the UVB lamp to reap its benefits.
> 
> ...




yes does help a bit, so uvb & uva is the same? 

am gunna print this out & take it with me to the pet shop, lol my torts are only small so i will get the t-rex 100 watt.

i just never knew they were so many differnt things for tortoises! its crazy


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## chadk (May 18, 2010)

UVA and UVB are not the same. This may help:


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"Full-Spectrum" Hype
"Full spectrum" lights which look like incandescent light bulbs are incandescent light bulbs and so are good only for producing heat. They do not produce any UVB. Tungsten filament technology cannot produce UVB. The use of the term "full spectrum" is grossly misleading. Any pet store that tells you they produce UVB is either completely ignorant or lying to you to make a sale.

UVB (Ultraviolet B) and UVA (Ultraviolet A)
The only lights that can safely provide these two critical wavelengths to your diurnal reptiles are the UVB/A producing fluorescents made for the reptile pet trade. (Note: for the problems associated with the use of screw-in compact fluorescents, please see my comments in the UV Table article referenced below.) 

Fish/Aquarium and plant "grow" lights-incandescent and fluorescent-do not produce UVB. Tanning salon fluorescents, tubes made for phototherapy for humans, germicidal UV tubes, and mercury vapor lights, all of which produce UV, do so at levels that are unsafe for the reptiles and their keepers. Many of these produce very high levels of UV and are designed to be used for very limited periods of time and require that protective eye gear be worn (and to my knowledge, despite the availability of ponchos, sombreros, and motorcycle jackets, no one has made UV resistant goggles for iguanas yet....).

Some of these lights also produce UVC, that range of wavelengths (< 290 nm) known to cause immune suppression and cancer in humans and animals. UVB producing fluorescents that produce a decent amount of UVB (1-5%) aren't very bright (have lower CRI) - bright UVB producing fluorescents (high CRI) do not produce much UV; that is a tradeoff required by the technology itself. So, when using a UVB producing fluorescent, you should be using a white light emitting incandescent as well - this will give your diurnal reptiles both the UV and the bright light they need. A list of UVB producing fluorescents can be found at the end of the UV Table article in the Ultraviolet section Captive Environment page. See also the new article by William Gehrmann, Reptile Lighting: A current perspective which includes a table of tubes.

CRI - Color Rendering Index
Those of you who are bothered by low interior lighting or who get somewhat grumpy or depressed on cloudy days, but who find life wonderful indeed on bright, sunny days or in well lit rooms, are responding to the difference that low CRI and high CRI make - the higher the Color Rendering Index (CRI), the better things look to us. 

Importance of UVA
Humans and reptiles alike see into the visible light range (400-700 nanometers). Reptiles and many other animals (but not humans) can also see into the UVA range (320-400 nm). UVB producing lights also produce UVA. UVA subtly affects the way things look to a reptile, from the color of their food to the color of their bodies. To us, male anole dewlaps look reddish - to another anole with sufficient UVA, however, they are brilliant, radiating, flaring red. The tongue of a blue-tongue skinks looks, to us, like the skink has been eating a basket of blueberries. To another blue-tongue skink, however, the tongue is a bright, fluorescent, day-glo pink. Failure to provide UVA to diurnal reptiles can causes subtle stress by altering the reptile's perception of its universe and how it responds to it. This can be crucial if you are thinking about breeding them or keeping them around for the length of their natural lifespan... 

UVB (290-320 NM), of course, is critical for the formation of the chemical which ultimately is transformed by the animal's body into vitamin D3. D3, as the articles on calcium and metabolic bone disease tell us, is critical for the proper uptake and metabolization of calcium in the body.

Twisted Products
Some of the long fluorescent tubes come with a twist in them. This serves to increase their surface area and so they are brighter (and presumably emit somewhat more UVR) than the straight versions. These twisted UVB-producing fluorescent tubes, such as DuroTest's PowerTwist, are fine to use for reptiles. Compact UVB-producing fluorescents, however, are inappropriate for most herp enclosures as the UVR disperses so quickly over distance that larger reptiles receive too little UVB and will develop MBD. These compact lights, which are attractive as they screw into an incandescent-type fixture and take up less space, may be safe for reptiles whose adult size is small, say, no larger than the smaller anoles. Note: not all compact fluorescents are intended to produce UVR for reptiles. If you are buying one specifically to try on a small reptile in a small enclosure, make sure you buy one made specifically for this purpose.




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Some Points to Remember When Setting Up Your Enclosure

Placing the Lights
Cluster your incandescents used for heat and your fluorescents used for UVB/A at the same end of the enclosure. You can certainly use a fluorescent tube that extends partially or completely down the full length of your enclosure, but if you are using a short tube, be sure to house it adjacent to the basking light. I find that too many people are putting the fluorescent at one end and the white basking light at the other. 

The reason you need to place them adjacent to each other is that the bright white light will attract the reptile to the warmest area so it can bask. It will spend most of its time during the day there, and while there, will be exposed to the UVB and UVA produced by the fluorescent. As it thermoregulates, it will move along the gradient of heat, but always going towards the bright white light to warm up. If provided with a non-white light emitting heat source on one end of the enclosure, and a cool white light at the other, such as that emitted by fluorescents, the reptile will elect to sit under the white light because it is attracted to the light. Thus is will fail to attain the temperatures it needs to ensure proper digestion and good health. 

Replace UVB Fluorescents Regularly
Over a period of time, the amount of UVB (and, presumably, UVA) emitted by the fluorescents decreases to the point where it will fail to provide sufficient UVB for vitamin D formation. This degradation occurs long before the bulb "burns out" - ceases to produce any visible light. Unfortunately, there is little data to indicate just how long the various bulbs produce sufficient levels of ultraviolet wavelengths. Experienced herpetoculturists change these tubes every 6-12 months. Mark your calendar, or pick a particular day of the year (your birthday, New Year's day, etc.) on which to do it that will be easy to remember. 

Watch the Distance Between the Reptile and the Light
The farther away from the fluorescent tube your reptile is, the less UVB it will actually get. The drop off is dramatic: at two feet away from the light, the reptile is getting only one-fourth of the UV it would get at only one foot away. It is recommended that the light not be any further than 18 inches (46 cm) from the reptile, and preferably much closer, such as 10-12 inches (25-30 cm). This may call for some creativity on your part if your reptile is housed in the typical glass tank sold by most pet stores, or is set up as a free roamer. In custom built enclosures, the lights can be securely ceiling-mounted in the enclosure, with the basking areas set up the appropriate distance beneath them.


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## Tom (May 18, 2010)

Here's what I do:
If they are outside getting sunshine regularly (summer time for you) I just use a regular, cheap low wattage, incandescent flood bulb. Adjust the height of the bulb to get the temp just right.

If they are going to be indoors for weeks at a time then I use the TRex Active UV Heat bulbs that Maggie mentioned. Again adjust the height to get the temps right. If you keep your house around 70 one or the other should be all you need. Here's an example:
http://tortoiseforum.org/thread-13375.html?highlight=basic+enclosure

In my experience the flourescent tubes do nothing except light up the enclosure. I have found them repeatedly to NOT prevent MBD. The MVBs DO prevent it, in my experience.


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## mrblue2008 (May 19, 2010)

would this do:

Repti Glo 10.0 Compact
Desert Terrarium Lamp

Ideal for all desert dwelling reptiles 
Ultra High UVB output 
Effective up to 50 cm (20") 
Provides necessary UVB rays for optimal calcium metabolism 
Recommended for use with screened terrariums; terrariums with dense screen covers (screens can filter out UVB rays) 
Recommended in combination with Repti Glo 2.0 for a higher visual light output 

The Exo Terra Repti Glo 10.0 has a very high UVB output similar to that associated with desert environments. Desert locations receive more direct sunlight than any other because of fewer clouds, less air humidity and no plants or trees to provide shade. Therefore desert reptiles are more exposed to UV radiation than any other type of reptile. This bulb can also be used on screened terrariums or terrariums with dense screen covers to ensure UVB penetration. Dense screens can filter out up to 50% of the UVB rays.



chadk said:


> UVA and UVB are not the same. This may help:
> 
> 
> ****************************************
> ...



thankyou chad, this is tons of info regarding lighting, am trying my best to understand everything about it. its not as simple as i thought. i am going for another look today or 2moro see what is best for me.



Tom said:


> Here's what I do:
> If they are outside getting sunshine regularly (summer time for you) I just use a regular, cheap low wattage, incandescent flood bulb. Adjust the height of the bulb to get the temp just right.
> 
> If they are going to be indoors for weeks at a time then I use the TRex Active UV Heat bulbs that Maggie mentioned. Again adjust the height to get the temps right. If you keep your house around 70 one or the other should be all you need. Here's an example:
> ...



thankyou tom, i am going to look at t-rex products today but over here the main product for lighting is exo-terra which do a Repti Glo 10.0 Compact Desert Terrarium Lamp which as i high uvb output not sure if this would be ok & then just use a incandescent heat bulb?[


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## Meg90 (May 19, 2010)

Do not use the compact bulbs. Those have been known to cause blindness and other eye issues in tortoises!!!

Why would you want two fixtures? That's just too bulbs to bump, to lamps to plug in, etc etc.

I use Mercury Vapor Bulbs on all of my enclosures. I suggest either a Trex 100W or a Powersun 100W.

I don't like the tube lights, and I think if you are still considering a compact bulb, you should search that phrase and look at the pictures that come up. Its just not a good idea, even if at the time, it seems more cost effective. Buy your Mercury Vapor Bulb (MVB) online it should run about 50$ with shipping included, and you can get some other supplies while you are at it.


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## Tom (May 19, 2010)

There you go Mr. Blue. That's two of us telling you. You only need one bulb and flourescents, compact or others wise, aren't gonna do it.


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## Maggie Cummings (May 19, 2010)

I personally would not use any compact bulb as I lost one hatchling and one was blinded by those bulbs. "They" say that the bulbs are fixed now and that they are safe but I personally wouldn't chance it. I use a black light bulb for warmth at night. A 100 watt Trex for the UVB and an incandescent for just regular light. I don't use the UVB for 14 hours. I believe they are only needed for a few hours a day then the incandescent for the rest of the time. I am sorry it took so long for me to say this, but I think it's best if a new keeper reads up on the bulbs and makes their own choice. I have told you how I use the bulbs now someone will come on and say I am wrong...watch for that


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## Riperoo (May 19, 2010)

Similar question, so I though I would pile it on her, I am looking at the Zilla combo light, it has the halogen bulbs, and the t-5 florescents. What do you all think of those? I am looking at the 30 " model, it has the 2 UV flouresecnts and then it has 3 halogen bulbs spots, I was going to go for two of the day light heat bulbs and then one of the night time bulbs (if you all think that is needed) if I go for the night time bulb, should it be the red or the black? Would love to hear everyones thoughts on this. 

This is the one I was looking at. 

http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/prod/236364/product.web


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## Tom (May 19, 2010)

Riperoo said:


> Similar question, so I though I would pile it on her, I am looking at the Zilla combo light, it has the halogen bulbs, and the t-5 florescents. What do you all think of those? I am looking at the 30 " model, it has the 2 UV flouresecnts and then it has 3 halogen bulbs spots, I was going to go for two of the day light heat bulbs and then one of the night time bulbs (if you all think that is needed) if I go for the night time bulb, should it be the red or the black? Would love to hear everyones thoughts on this.
> 
> This is the one I was looking at.
> 
> http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/prod/236364/product.web



This is just my opinion:

That looks like a great way to light up your reef aquarium, but I wouldn't use it on a tortoise tank.

Again: You only need one bulb. A MVB OR an incandescent flood if your tortie gets regular sun. I strongly believe flourescents to be ineffective for preventing metabolic bone disease, which is the whole purpose for using an UV bulb in the first place.

Maggies way of running two bulbs will work just fine and her reasoning seems sound to me. I just like to keep it simpler. (See Maggie, I said you were right)

It is much easier and cheaper to just hang an aluminum hooded ceramic fixture with a regular screw in type bulb (either plain incandescent or MVB) than mess with all that other stuff.


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## Maggie Cummings (May 19, 2010)

Tom, then how do you keep small fragile tortoises warm at night? Your bulb goes off at night. Are you one of those that does not believe in a nighttime heat bulb? I use my Trex during the day and a black light bulb at night... that means I turn one one and one off. What do you do? I have 27 animals in the house and most need nighttime heat. IMHO


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## purpod (May 27, 2010)

Greetings Mr. Blue ~

Altho I have not read all of the answers in this post to your questions, I thought I might share this newly released info that I found in Reptiles Magazine: http://www.reptilechannel.com/reptile-health/reptile-natural-artificial-light.aspx

 It covers many different rep's, not just tort's & turt's, but it appears to be a very interesting article...

Good luck with your lighting endeavors!
Purpod:


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## Seiryu (May 27, 2010)

maggie3fan said:


> Tom, then how do you keep small fragile tortoises warm at night? Your bulb goes off at night. Are you one of those that does not believe in a nighttime heat bulb? I use my Trex during the day and a black light bulb at night... that means I turn one one and one off. What do you do? I have 27 animals in the house and most need nighttime heat. IMHO



I don't know about Tom, but my house is always 70-80 degrees in the summer (I rarely use central air). And for winter, I turn on the heat to make it 68-72 in the house. This is at tort/lizard level. So I never use heat bulbs at night myself.


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## Madkins007 (May 27, 2010)

Just my own nickel's worth-

I am a BIG believer in multiple bulbs for several reasons.

1. Using a fluorescent and an incandescant together gives you a pretty true white, or color balance, or full spectrum- however you want to say it.

2. Using multiple bulbs lets you better simulate a day- kick on the plain bulbs for 12 hours a day, the heat for 10 hours a day, and the UVB for 6-8 hours a day and you've simulated dawn and dusk, high noon, etc.

3. Multiple bulbs gives me a safey margin. My heat bulb went out on me one cold day when I was at work. If that had been my only bulb, my guys would have suffered. Instead, I use a couple different kinds of bulbs and they were still OK.

4. My night and secondary heating is a ceramic heat emitter. I do not trust 'black lights' since most emit a lot of UVA- a wavelenth that has some benefit in triggering behaviors, but mostly is not so great. (This obviously would not apply to black lights that clearly state that emit UVB, and it does not apply to 'blue lights' often used at night- which I am against as I oppose any visible light source at night since it can harm the eyes or disrupt sleep patterns.)

5. Part of this answer has to be the size of the habitat. Fitting three bulbs in a 30 gallon tub is silly, but trying to do a 8' x 4' table with one bulb is usually just about as silly.

Not trying to pick a fight, just pointing out the logic of the other side.


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