# Brand new Russian tortoise HELP



## MissyAmerica (Sep 29, 2010)

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Hi everyone! Let me just start by saying how great your forum is... If only I would have paid more attention to it before I got tortoise fever and rushed out to buy one. I have wanted one for a very very long time and I thought I did my research but by the looks of it, I have no clue what I am doing. I got him from Petco today which I realize is my first mistake. Second I was assured that the "Zilla tortoise starter kit" was EXACTLY what I needed. $300 later I feel like as soon as I can afford it I am going to have to start over.

I have posted pictures of the "kit" I have him in right now, I feel like it is to small, and the pellet like alfala stuff he is on just seems hard and uncomfy. However beings that I spent ALOT of money today I cannot afford to make many changes for a little while. Can someone tell me what I 100% need to change right now. I have a few more questions... What is the deal with the calcium powder everyone is talking about? Do I need it? If so where do I get it, when and how do I give it to him? and how often?... I live in So Cal in the Valley, it gets well over 100 degrees F during the day and we obviously do not use our air when at work, what can I do to keep him from getting to hot? Should I still keep the heat lamp on? Speaking of the heat lamp, I have one heat lamp and one UV lamp that came with the kit, do these need to stay on 24/7? I read on a few sites that russians shouldn't be kept inside. I did not realize this and besides a small patio I do not have anywhere outside to keep him. Is this bad? I also see in some pictures on the forum people have potted plants and such in thier enclosures, is this reccomended? If so, what plants should I put in there? (the plants you see in mine are fake) As far as feeding him, I have a dish with the pellets (again from the kit) and I placed some romain lettuce and shredded carrots on top, he has not touched any of it. He was moving around quite a bit at first but he has been sleeping for awhile now. Can someone tell me specifically what I need to do about the humidity, do i need to mist him? I am 24 and I do plan to purchase a house one day, would he be able to adapt to living outside after he is full grown? I'm pretty sure he is a male but is there any other way to tell besides the tail? How do I tell how old he is? I see some people have hermit crabs in their tanks, is that just for fun or is it good to have something else with the tort? That brings me to my next question, if I ever wanted to get another tortoise would they be able to live together or is it like a hamster where unless they are raised together they turn into hannibal lector? WELL I think that is it for now.... If I missed anything else important please let me know! Also here is a link to the exact kit I purchased from petco. http://www.zilla-rules.com/products/deluxe-land-turtle-tortoise-kit.htm
THANKS SO MUCH! I know this post is really confusing and annoying, I just want to make sure I do this right!


Here is a link to the photos, I canno't get them to load. http://img820.imageshack.us/g/torty2.jpg/

P.S. as I was writing this post I finally picked a name..... Professor Dumbledore.


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## Yvonne G (Sep 29, 2010)

Hi Missy America:

First of all, welcome to the forum! 

I'll try to take your questions one at a time:

Would it be possible to take the Zilla Starter Kit back and get a refund? I'm assuming your Russian tortoise is an adult tortoise, and if that's the case, he needs to be outside. Its getting close to hibernation time, so you WILL need to set up an indoor habitat for the winter, because its a good idea to keep a new-to-you tortoise awake his first winter with you. I like to use the biggest plastic tub I can buy. This usually costs $10 or less.

Alfalfa pellets aren't a good substrate, but you can use them temporarily with no harm to your tortoise. When you get some more money, you can change it out to something that you can moisten. My favorite is cypress mulch, then orchid bark. But lots of folks use coconut coir.

Your adult tortoise will get his calcium from his food, but you can also supplement a couple times a week. Calcium keeps their shell and bones hard and healthy. You can either give him a cuttle bone (from the bird dept. at the pet store) or buy a jar of powder to sprinkle over his food.

If your tortoise were outside, you wouldn't need to worry about a heat lamp. But indoors, you would have the UV light on all day. The light provides heat, but it also gives him the UV he needs to make his calcium work. Without UV, either from the sun or from the light, the calcium doesn't do its job and he will eventually get soft and die. Since the kit has a heat lamp and a UV lamp, I'm assuming that the heat lamp is a no-light type thing? You would use that at night. But if your tortoise is an adult, he won't need heat at night unless your house gets below 65 degrees. The UV light gets turned off at night so the tortoise has a day/night cycle.

If you can set him up outside on the patio for a few hours of sunshine each day, that would be great.

As for potted plants, that's strictly up to you. As long as your tortoise has a place to hide and get away from the light, he doesn't need plants.

You can feed your tortoise any dark, leafy greens from the grocery store. Turnip greens, endive, escarole, mustard greens, dandelion greens...just don't get in a rut and feed the same thing over and over. He needs a variety. You don't need to feed him carrots. If he'll eat the pellets, you can add them to the greens, but most tortoises won't eat them. They aren't a necessity. He might not eat or settle in for a week or two. Tortoises are territorial and it really stresses them out to be moved into a new habitat.

Since your tortoise is probably an adult, you don't need to worry about humidity. That's just for shells that are growing.

On a Russian tortoise just about the only way to tell the sex is the tail.

Hermit crabs do well in a humid tank set up, like what you would use for a redfoot tortoise. One wouldn't live in a tank for a Russian tortoise.

No way to tell how old your tortoise is because he's probably wild caught. His size might tell you if he's full grown or not, but not actual age.

If in the future you want to get another Russian tortoise, they can live together after a quarantine period. But you should never mix your species of tortoise. They might make each other sick.

Keep asking questions. That's what we're here for.





I just looked at your pictures. The set-up looks really nice. You're right, it is too small. Little Russian tortoises do a lot of walking and get quite a bit of exercise. So they need a lot of space. Your set-up will do for now, but keep in mind you need to make it bigger in the future. Take a look at an old book case from a yard sale, or something like that. You can lay it on its back, remove the shelves, line it with a shower curtain, and you have a great indoor habitat.

Your tortoise is probably an adult. He might grow a bit more, but not much.


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## LindaF (Sep 29, 2010)

Hello and welcome to the forum.
I don't know about russian torts so I won't waste your time with my advice. I just want to tell you I feel your pain. I too had thought I had done my research before getting my red foot tortoise. Now I learn how much I didn't know and my tank is not the best for him. Previously I was told it was fine and would be good for years. I am working on building him a better enclosure, but since temps have dropped outside he is back to the tank but I hope not for long.
You will get a lot of great advice here.

PS. I like his name....Professor Dumbledore.


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## ChiKat (Sep 29, 2010)

Here's a good caresheet: http://www.russiantortoise.org/care_sheet.htm
And info on diet: http://www.russiantortoise.org/russiantortoisediet.htm

I'll try to answer more of your questions later!

Welcome to the forum by the way


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## dmmj (Sep 29, 2010)

Man those pet stores love to sell you "upgrades" or "addons" anyone who has worked in a commission type enviro can testify about that. Don't feel bad most of us have fallen prey to the you really need this for the health of your tortoise. I can suggest buying one of those cement mixing tubs from the home improvement stores they are usually around 10 to 15 dollars and are a lot roomier than what you currently have. Go back to the store and make a fuss about how you were mislead into buying stuff you did not need, they may give a refund. Well welcome to the forum and I hope you enjoy your visit.


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## PeanutbuttER (Sep 29, 2010)

If it were me, I'd repackage the kit and take it back. Sounds like you bought it today, so it's not like it's really been used much. They should be willing to take it back. With the money you get back from the "kit" I'd go out and collect everything you'll need to set up your tortoise. I feel like the russiantortoise.org enclosure is really a cheap and effective way to get a russian set up. If you live in a place where you can get cypress mulch though, I'd recommend using that instead of the coco coir/sand mix they use. 

Honestly, I don't think it would cost you less in the end if you returned the kit. And you'd have a better set up. Alternatively, browse the enclosures sub-forum and you can get lots of ideas there for how to customize or even make an enclosure of your own.

Another option if you can't give him any outside time would be to set up his enclosure next to an open window. If it gets a reasonable amount of direct sunlight at some point during the day, then I'm sure he'd appreciate it.


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## dolfanjack (Sep 29, 2010)

Being outside is nice but not a neccessity. I kept Tortuga inside for 5 yrs with no problems. If you can't take back your incloser thats fine your tortoise will get exercise by walking back and forth, but I would get more space as soon as possible. Get rid of the alfalfa pellets, and go to a nursery and get loam or organic top soil, it works much better and in your set up it won't take much. There are ideal situations ( outside, sunlight, and lots of space) and suitible situations. Yours might only be suitable know but thats ok you know ideal will come soon enough..


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## MissyAmerica (Sep 29, 2010)

Hi Everyone, Thanks so so much for all of your advice. I unfortunately cannot return the kit from petco because It was on clearance... I am thinking I will hold onto it anyways since I currently have a bull frog tadpole I rescued from a carnival who will be needing a nice encloser in a few months, It's a bit expensive and fancy for a frog but it looks like the little guy lucked out . I think I am going to go the route of the bookshelf type encloser. I was going to accomplish some of that stuff today, that is until my car decided to break down in the middle of the busiest freeway in L.A. (It's been one of those weeks). The little time I did have between trips to the dealerships I took Dumbledore outside for a bit and it's like he snapped into a different tortoise, he was running around and climbing and it was so great to watch. It was sad to put him back in that tank because I know he is not happy. When he is in there he just sleeps, he ate a tiny bit and has pooed one time (in the 24 hours I have had him.) I did get a chance to run to OSH and check for the types of substrate but when reading the list the man looked at me like I was speaking Hebrew, in his defense it was closing time. I guess I will try an actual nursery unless anyone knows a good place in the San Fernando Valley. I was also wondering where to get the calcium powder, and what exact plant seeds to buy for him (I decided to go the route of planting)... I asked the guy at OSH if they had dandelion seeds and I'm pretty sure he laughed at me... Thanks again for all the help, while it is a bit overwhelming I enjoy projects and I mostly enjoy my new family member!!!


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## dmmj (Sep 29, 2010)

trust me you will love the little guy I have 3 and could not imagine life without them. If you are looking for bookcases and don't want to buy one I would check garage sales, craigslist, and freecycle.com they should be on there for low if not free in some cases.


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## MissyAmerica (Sep 29, 2010)

Just thought of 2 more questions, First I read somewhere about "soaking" the tortoises... Do I need to do this? If so how often? How long? Water temp? Water depth?.... And I noticed in Emys post you said something about the heat lamp being a "no-light" type thing... I'm not sure what that means but the light it emits is actually very bright. It is bright red and nearly lights up the entire corner of my living room! He is currently under his log where he has been the entire time. Could this be bugging him? My house is useually above 70 degress at all times right now (due to my boyfriend refusing to let us turn on the air), I may need the heat in the winter but is he ok not using that lamp at all with only the UV going during the day? I am planning on putting him outside as much as possible even if its only for an hour or so a day if that helps at all... Well I'm going to attempt some sleep after my crazy day.. I'm about 90% sure I will pop out of bed and ask about 10 more questions before the night is over 

Thanks again!!!

Thanks Dmmj, I already love him! My boyfriend has to keep telling me I'm not allowed to wake him up anymore to hold him  I think I have a suitable bookshelf I can use here at home.... Turns out my 7 Harry Potter books fit fine on top of my TV therefore the bookshelf is useless .


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## davy89 (Oct 2, 2010)

Hey Missy, ah i feel your pain big time, I went and fell in love with two baby Leopard torts and rushed into getting them too quickly, and now Im bein told that theyre gonna need the run of my garden when theyre adults because they get so big. Only problem is I live in Ireland, so there isnt a hope that they'd be able to survive the climate here, so dont kno what im gonna do  best of luck with yours


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## tortoisenerd (Oct 2, 2010)

Calcium powder from a pet store or even cheaper, a human supplement store. Only get the pure powder, no D3, if you get it from a pet store. At human supplement stores the NOW brand in an orange and white plastic bottle is common. Look for cypress mulch at home improvement stores. Or, aspen at pet stores (no wood mixes--I like the snake stuff but the small animal stuff is cheaper). Coconut coir (pet stores, in a brick) or organic potting soil (home improvement stores) are other options. For seeds, you will have better luck online. I have never known anyone who has got dandelions to grow from seeds--they only grow when you don't want them! Whole Foods and other health good stores have dandelion greens and similar in the produce section. 

It is not necessary to soak, but recommended especially if you don't see the tort go in the water, for a sick tort, or a new to you tort (likely dehydrated). Fill up a pan with baby bath warm water to a point where the tort's carapace and plasteron meet (bottom and top halves). The tort should not have to hold its head up. About 10-15 minutes is good. This would be called a forced soak. Another option is to just put the baby bath warm water in the tort's enclosure water dish and place the tort in there, letting it get out when it wants. A nice reminder for them to use their water. I serve moist greens which helps with hydration too. A couple times a week is a good idea if you want to do the soaks.

What are the day and night temps with your current set up? The torts cannot see the red light, but there are better (although more expensive) heat lamps if you need one. You only need one if your house is cooler than 60 F at night. Keeping a tort too hot at night is bad as in the wild they get a temp drop. 60 to 70 F at night is good, and a range available from 70 to 95 F in the day. It is imperative you buy a good thermometer like a temp gun as the other ones just aren't accurate. Temps are one of the most important aspects of keeping torts. Torts like to have shelter or burrow at night. I don't think the light is bothering him, but you probably don't need it. Yvonne was making sure you aren't using a heat bulb with visible light at night (some people mistakenly keep their tort's lights on at night, which is very bad because they need a day & night cycle like they get in the wild). Red lights are heat only and the tort can't see that kind of light, but annoying for humans which can see it. I prefer ceramic heat emitters, and others use black light bulbs (haven't tried one yet). But, at 70 F, that is a perfect night temp and you don't need heat. Do make sure you have several hides in different temperature zones for the tort--like one near the basking spot, one near the food, and one in a cool spot.

If he gets outside an hour a day for sun (make sure he has a hide too), you don't need a UVB bulb indoors. Just use a house lightbulb to keep the temps adequate. Make sure any outdoor enclosure is very secure unless you plan to stay in line of sight (dug down fence with wire over the top kind of secure, as animals love to eat and play with torts). An enclosure not more than a couple times the size of the indoor one is a good idea so its not stressful for the tort to go back inside afterward. They need a secure place that feels like home, not just to have free run of the backyard.


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## MissyAmerica (Oct 3, 2010)

Wow... Thanks so much! I FINALLY have most of my questions answered and I actually built him a new encloser... I will be posting pics tonight!!! THANKS GUYS!!!!


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## dolfanjack (Oct 3, 2010)

I have never used heat at night and my temps can get as low as the upper 40's. Once mourning comes I turn on the heat lamp and as the encloser warms up Tortuga and Irie head for their basking area to warm up. 45 minutes later their active and ready for breakfast. This is how it would happen in their natural environment.


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