# WANTED- Seeking TSM leopard x sulcata hybrid



## Baoh (Oct 12, 2009)

Hi,

I am looking for a leopard x sulcata hybrid. I would prefer a hatchling or juvenile that has been incubated to be male, but I would consider other possibilities. 

Please email me, with details and what sort of price you are looking for, at 

nickolasanastasiou
at
yahoo
dot
com

Thanks.


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## oswego tort lover (Oct 16, 2009)

a few that where claimed to be hybrid's where offered on kingsnake this summer, you could place an ad looking for them there. also beware, those who don't belive in creating hybrid chelonian's may cause you grief on this forum..as long as the dna isn't allowed to reenter the wild gene pool i don't see the harm.


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## fishtanker (Oct 17, 2009)

I thought that the hybrids were sterile. Are you planning to breed the hybrids?


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## Baoh (Oct 17, 2009)

oswego tort lover said:


> a few that where claimed to be hybrid's where offered on kingsnake this summer, you could place an ad looking for them there. also beware, those who don't belive in creating hybrid chelonian's may cause you grief on this forum..as long as the dna isn't allowed to reenter the wild gene pool i don't see the harm.



I may resort to that in time.

Well, such people can complain about whatever they like, but I am not exactly in the habit of taking trips to Africa to drop off random tortoises, so I am not particularly worried.

Thank you for the suggestion and words of caution.



fishtanker said:


> I thought that the hybrids were sterile. Are you planning to breed the hybrids?



Unless someone has conducted extensive breeding experiments with these hybrids, that has not been determined and assuming it is a fact would be a mistake.

I am not planning to breed the hybrids at this time, although I am not opposed to it in the future, either.

As of now, I have no hybrid, so I cannot breed what I do not possess.


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## Madkins007 (Oct 18, 2009)

It would be really interesting if these two species could produce fertile offspring since they are now considered to be from different genera by many of the experts- Stigmochelys pardalis and Centrochelys (Geochelone) sulcata.


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## Baoh (Oct 18, 2009)

Madkins007 said:


> It would be really interesting if these two species could produce fertile offspring since they are now considered to be from different genera by many of the experts- Stigmochelys pardalis and Centrochelys (Geochelone) sulcata.



Is there a numerical difference in chromosomes?


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## KQ6AR (Oct 20, 2009)

I've read that cross breeding within testudo species, produces sterile offspring.


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## mctlong (Oct 20, 2009)

Baoh said:


> Madkins007 said:
> 
> 
> > It would be really interesting if these two species could produce fertile offspring since they are now considered to be from different genera by many of the experts- Stigmochelys pardalis and Centrochelys (Geochelone) sulcata.
> ...



Can a hybrid be created if the parents have a different number of chromosomes?


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## Baoh (Oct 20, 2009)

KQ6AR said:


> I've read that cross breeding within testudo species, produces sterile offspring.



IME, Greek x Marginated are fertile.



mctlong said:


> Baoh said:
> 
> 
> > Madkins007 said:
> ...



In some cases, yes, but it's less likely and even less likely that the offspring will be capable of reproducing.


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## fishtanker (Oct 24, 2009)

Lookie
http://market.kingsnake.com/detail.php?cat=50&de=730752


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## Baoh (Oct 24, 2009)

fishtanker said:


> Lookie
> http://market.kingsnake.com/detail.php?cat=50&de=730752



I just saw that, but the so-called Sunset Hypo hasn't proven out to be a reproducible trait as far as I have seen and I also am not interested in putting an albino gene into this project. I will not pay money for the "opportunity" for an animal to be possibly heterozygous for an unproven trait and another one I find undesirable in larger tortoises (albinism). I am fine with, and even pleased by, leucism, but albinism in a larger tortoise just makes for more of a pain in the butt when it comes to care (especially outside). I am aware that it's only a 50% het, but if it is actually there and I ever decide to cross the line further, I would not want it popping up.

Unless someone ends up coming along with them by Spring, I am just going to get an adult leo to pair with my sulcata.

Thanks, though.


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