# Tort doesn’t feel good



## Melissacoop (Mar 27, 2021)

I came home today and my little guy was tucked in his hide not asking to come out. We have a schedule and every day mid day when we come home he comes outside for about 2-3 hours in his patio area for grazing and exercise. He’s very people oriented and comes to our feet and hangs out. We keep our underside patio tort friendly and he has his grazing area of grass, weeds, aloe and then we usually feed him hibiscus almost every day too. Today I had to retrieve him from his hide and when I put him down in the sun he just stayed tucked up. 
upon investigation the only observations I have is he did not poop this morning in his enclosure. My husband said he fed him an entire paddle of cactus two days ago and then a half the next day. I’m thinking he has a stomach upset but I don’t even know if they have stomachs like other animals. 
I have been soaking him now for about 20 minutes and will continue to do so for awhile longer. He’s not showing any signs of a respiratory infection unless it’s just brewing. He nibbled a little bit this morning but didn’t eat the food I left for him when we went to work. Any thoughts? How much cactus is too much?
He is 1 1/2 roughly and 1.5 pounds and 9x9. 
Thoughts?


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## Tom (Mar 27, 2021)

Sometimes they just do this. Warm soaking is always a good way to go.

I feed buckets full of opuntia pads to everything all summer long. Even tiny hatchlings, babies and juveniles. I don't think you can do too much.

I've been in FL a couple of times in the last few months, You've had some cool nights. Does this guy have night heat?

Also, its not good for them to be on concrete. When they are small, you can get away with it, but as the tortoise gains size and weight, the abrasive concrete will wear through his feet and he'll be walking on bloody stumps. Not kidding. I've seen it happen many times. A small part of the enclosure can have some concrete, but most of it should be dirt or grass.


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## Melissacoop (Mar 27, 2021)

Thank you Tom for your advice. He does have night heat. He’s in the house in his enclosure. CHE on thermostat set to 80. Current basking temp is 102.5 and his hide I pulled him out of is 95. I’ve been soaking for 45 minutes and no bowel movement thus far. He does have a grassy area on the patio too but I will limit the time on the concrete as you said. We’ve been planning to expand his area to be in the actual yard. When he was younger you advised me to bring him in as I was keeping him on the covered patio. Do you think he’s big enough to be under the covered patio in his enclosure now? I wouldn’t be able to have a closed chamber as it would get too hot. He’s about growing out of his indoor closed chamber so we can expand that one longer or move him outside. Even if he comes outside I’m not ready to put him in the yard. I would put his enclosure on the patio and take him out for roaming as I do now.


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## Melissacoop (Mar 27, 2021)

@Tom 
I’m really worried about my little guy. He is just not moving. Just laying around with his eyes closed. I can’t for the life of me think what could have caused this. Maybe a blockage?


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## Krista S (Mar 27, 2021)

I’m sorry he’s not feeling well. I don’t have the experience to offer any advice, but wanted to let you know I’m thinking of you and hoping he’ll snap out of it quickly. Sending positive vibes your way.


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## Melissacoop (Mar 27, 2021)

Krista S said:


> I’m sorry he’s not feeling well. I don’t have the experience to offer any advice, but wanted to let you know I’m thinking of you and hoping he’ll snap out of it quickly. Sending positive vibes your way.


Thank you Krista. I’m so worried. If he’s not better in the morning I will be finding an emergency clinic. Hopefully he will still be alive. ?


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## Krista S (Mar 27, 2021)

Melissacoop said:


> Thank you Krista. I’m so worried. If he’s not better in the morning I will be finding an emergency clinic. Hopefully he will still be alive. ?


Please keep us posted. One thing I thought of is to make sure wherever he’s sitting in his enclosure, that he doesn’t over heat. If he’s not under a heat source it should be ok, but if he is sitting directly under the heat source keep a close eye on his temp. If he’s been directly under a heat source for awhile now, maybe another soak would be good. I know it’s not easy, but try to not stress too much yet.


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## Tom (Mar 27, 2021)

Melissacoop said:


> @Tom
> I’m really worried about my little guy. He is just not moving. Just laying around with his eyes closed. I can’t for the life of me think what could have caused this. Maybe a blockage?


Is it possible he got into something poisonous?


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## Melissacoop (Mar 27, 2021)

Tom said:


> Is it possible he got into something poisonous?


That did cross my mind. I’ve been wracking my brain. I did ask my husband if he sprayed anything on the patio or fertilized the cactus he ate a few days ago but we aren’t aware of anything. We are out there with him since we have a tv and living area out there so he’s not really unattended except if we go inside for a short time. He was normal yesterday. I did give him one of Will’s gel kit “muffins’ I made. Probably been in the refrigerator for three weeks or so but it’s not moldy or anything. I wouldn’t think they would go bad. I bought bok choy at the grocery store and gave him a piece of that two days ago and alittle yesterday. I don’t think I washed it tho ?
I did notice it looked like he was gulping or doing some swallowing while he was soaking. But he only did it a few times. I also remember that two days when I was soaking him he let out some kind of squeal. I have no idea if it was a cough, sneeze or what. It was loud and made me jump as I was sitting right next to him but was looking at my phone so I didn’t see what he did.


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## Melissacoop (Mar 27, 2021)

Krista S said:


> Please keep us posted. One thing I thought of is to make sure wherever he’s sitting in his enclosure, that he doesn’t over heat. If he’s not under a heat source it should be ok, but if he is sitting directly under the heat source keep a close eye on his temp. If he’s been directly under a heat source for awhile now, maybe another soak would be good. I know it’s not easy, but try to not stress too much yet.


Thanks Krista. Too late on the stressing. I’ve been crying for past hour. ?


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## harrythetortoise (Mar 27, 2021)

I am sorry to hear this too... sending prayers. Keep us updated. Make sure to keep him warm in the mean time...


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## Melissacoop (Mar 27, 2021)

harrythetortoise said:


> I am sorry to hear this too... sending prayers. Keep us updated. Make sure to keep him warm in the mean time...


Thank you. ?


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## Tom (Mar 28, 2021)

Melissacoop said:


> That did cross my mind. I’ve been wracking my brain. I did ask my husband if he sprayed anything on the patio or fertilized the cactus he ate a few days ago but we aren’t aware of anything. We are out there with him since we have a tv and living area out there so he’s not really unattended except if we go inside for a short time. He was normal yesterday. I did give him one of Will’s gel kit “muffins’ I made. Probably been in the refrigerator for three weeks or so but it’s not moldy or anything. I wouldn’t think they would go bad. I bought bok choy at the grocery store and gave him a piece of that two days ago and alittle yesterday. I don’t think I washed it tho ?
> I did notice it looked like he was gulping or doing some swallowing while he was soaking. But he only did it a few times. I also remember that two days when I was soaking him he let out some kind of squeal. I have no idea if it was a cough, sneeze or what. It was loud and made me jump as I was sitting right next to him but was looking at my phone so I didn’t see what he did.


How is he today? Long warm soaks today. Get him warm and active. Sounds like a possible blockage from the noise he made. Activity and soaking will help that pass, if that is the case.


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## Krista S (Mar 28, 2021)

@Melissacoop Hoping your little guy is showing signs of improvement this morning. Please update when you can.


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## Melissacoop (Mar 28, 2021)

Tom said:


> How is he today? Long warm soaks today. Get him warm and active. Sounds like a possible blockage from the noise he made. Activity and soaking will help that pass, if that is the case.


He passed a huge bowel movement in his soak this morning! He is peeking his head out a little bit and at least his eyes are open. I did sift through the stool and there wasn’t anything in there except my hair. He does tend to poop out my hair often which had me worried too. 
I did make an appointment at the emergency vet today before I did the soak and poop. Do you think I should hold off?? It is a reptile vet but of course I’m skeptical. They wouldn’t be able to do bloodwork today but could give some fluids. Do you think that would be more harm than good?


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## Melissacoop (Mar 28, 2021)

Krista S said:


> @Melissacoop Hoping your little guy is showing signs of improvement this morning. Please update when you can.


I think he is. He had a huge bowel movement and is at least peeking his head out. Thank you. What a miserable night of not sleeping!!
Still not walking around though. I’m trying to decide if I should take to the vet today or just keep soaking.


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## Krista S (Mar 28, 2021)

Melissacoop said:


> I think he is. He had a huge bowel movement and is at least peeking his head out. Thank you. What a miserable night of not sleeping!!
> Still not walking around though. I’m trying to decide if I should take to the vet today or just keep soaking.


Well let’s hope it was a stomach upset and that he’s turned the corner now. I would be a wreck too and wouldn’t have been able to sleep. I‘ll leave the vet thing up to the more experienced members. There’s pros and cons. I know travelling in a vehicle alone is very stressful for more torts and it would be a shame to agitate him more than necessary right now if it no longer feels like an emergency. Trust your gut though. If you have a good vet for your tortoise that you trust wholeheartedly can they maybe give an opinion over the phone to determine if the trip is worth it?


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## Lyn W (Mar 28, 2021)

If you are soaking him often I wouldn't think he'd need fluids and don't let the vet give him vitamin shots which can do more harm than good.

Is it possible he's got something stuck when eating?
Hair can be a real problem for them so try to keep him away from that.

Have you tried a Gerber baby food carrot soak?


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## Lyn W (Mar 28, 2021)

Maybe @ZenHerper or @zovick can help


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## Lyn W (Mar 28, 2021)

Melissacoop said:


> Thank you Tom for your advice. He does have night heat. He’s in the house in his enclosure. CHE on thermostat set to 80. Current basking temp is 102.5 and his hide I pulled him out of is 95. I’ve been soaking for 45 minutes and no bowel movement thus far. He does have a grassy area on the patio too but I will limit the time on the concrete as you said. We’ve been planning to expand his area to be in the actual yard. When he was younger you advised me to bring him in as I was keeping him on the covered patio. Do you think he’s big enough to be under the covered patio in his enclosure now? I wouldn’t be able to have a closed chamber as it would get too hot. He’s about growing out of his indoor closed chamber so we can expand that one longer or move him outside. Even if he comes outside I’m not ready to put him in the yard. I would put his enclosure on the patio and take him out for roaming as I do now.


If you don't want to restrict his space, you could cover the concrete with some rubber matting - rolls of it or the interlocking smaller sections.


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## Melissacoop (Mar 28, 2021)

Lyn W said:


> If you don't want to restrict his space, you could cover the concrete with some rubber matting - rolls of it or the interlocking smaller sections.


Great idea!! Thanks!


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## Melissacoop (Mar 28, 2021)

Lyn W said:


> If you are soaking him often I wouldn't think he'd need fluids and don't let the vet give him vitamin shots which can do more harm than good.
> 
> Is it possible he's got something stuck when eating?
> Hair can be a real problem for them so try to keep him away from that.
> ...


I soak him everyday. Occasionally will skip a day here or there. 


Krista S said:


> Well let’s hope it was a stomach upset and that he’s turned the corner now. I would be a wreck too and wouldn’t have been able to sleep. I‘ll leave the vet thing up to the more experienced members. There’s pros and cons. I know travelling in a vehicle alone is very stressful for more torts and it would be a shame to agitate him more than necessary right now if it no longer feels like an emergency. Trust your gut though. If you have a good vet for your tortoise that you trust wholeheartedly can they maybe give an opinion over the phone to determine if the trip is worth it?


I know. I’m undecided. It is a reptile doctor but do not know anything about him. I haven’t had to take my little guy anywhere before.


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## Lyn W (Mar 28, 2021)

Melissacoop said:


> I soak him everyday. Occasionally will skip a day here or there.
> 
> I know. I’m undecided. It is a reptile doctor but do not know anything about him. I haven’t had to take my little guy anywhere before.


It's always a worry especially if they have to be sedated for x rays or have bloods taken. 

My tort didn't come out of his hide or eat a thing yesterday so they do have days when they don't want to be disturbed. 
Is he still making the noise?
Maybe try the Gerber carrot soak to see if that helps him perk up.


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## zovick (Mar 28, 2021)

Melissacoop said:


> I soak him everyday. Occasionally will skip a day here or there.
> 
> I know. I’m undecided. It is a reptile doctor but do not know anything about him. I haven’t had to take my little guy anywhere before.


I don't think it would hurt to wait 24 hours and see how the tortoise is by tomorrow before worrying about taking it for a vet visit. Perhaps it was constipation that was making it feel under the weather and now that the tortoise has passed a large BM it will feel better later this afternoon and begin acting normally again.


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## Melissacoop (Mar 28, 2021)

I won’t let them sedate him today. He only made that squeal one time a few days ago. He just lays in the water with his eyes closed. I put him in the sun and he never tried to walk at all.


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## zovick (Mar 28, 2021)

Melissacoop said:


> I won’t let them sedate him today. He only made that squeal one time a few days ago. He just lays in the water with his eyes closed. I put him in the sun and he never tried to walk at all.


Well, good luck at the visit. When is your appointment?


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## Tom (Mar 28, 2021)

The big BM is a promising sign. The hair is not.

The opuntia meal should help push things through, but long hairs can get caught up and wrapped around the intestinal tract. Its possible that they'd see some sign of this on an X-ray, but also possibly not.

If the big BM didn't resolve the issue, then an Xray and some blood work will at least offer some insight.

The two big no-no's that vet almost always want to do is "vitamin" injections and Baytril injections. Just tell them up front that you don't want either of those and go from there.

I don't want to tell you to wait and see, and then have the tortoise die. I would probably wait and see, but your situation is different, and I'm not watching what you are watching. Trust your gut. Go with your gut. IF (big IF) your tortoise has hair strands wrapped up in its intestinal tract, or if the tortoise ate something poisonous, there really isn't anything a vet can do anyway. If it were my tort, I'd put him in the bath tub with warm water and try to get the tortoise treadmill going. Like a hot walker for a colicy horse. Keep the water warm, a little deeper than normal, and supervise closely. The larger size and slippery surface sometime gets them trudging and all that leg movement get things moving.

I don't want to lecture you. Not the time for that, but I feel its important for anyone reading to be reminded: This is why tortoises need their own enclosures. Tortoises shouldn't share the floor in the house or the yard outside with people or dogs. They need their own enclosures where people and dogs are not doing their thing.


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## ZenHerper (Mar 28, 2021)

Melissacoop said:


> He passed a huge bowel movement in his soak this morning! He is peeking his head out a little bit and at least his eyes are open. I did sift through the stool and there wasn’t anything in there except my hair. He does tend to poop out my hair often which had me worried too.
> I did make an appointment at the emergency vet today before I did the soak and poop. Do you think I should hold off?? It is a reptile vet but of course I’m skeptical. They wouldn’t be able to do bloodwork today but could give some fluids. Do you think that would be more harm than good?



You are there with him - it is really up to your Gut sense of whether he needs additional support or not.

Tortoises and turtles that free-run where people also free-run do have a high incidence of swallowing non-food items, including hair. Long hairs in the digestive organs may cause serious blockages and other damage when ends get anchored between two food masses. Dedicated outdoor habitats are the best-practice recommendation.

Let us know how he's coming along...


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## Melissacoop (Mar 28, 2021)

zovick said:


> Well, good luck at the visit. When is your appointment?


It was at 1:30pm but they called and canceled it due to an emergency surgery!


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## Lyn W (Mar 28, 2021)

Melissacoop said:


> It was at 1:30pm but they called and canceled it due to an emergency surgery!


Have they rescheduled? 
Meanwhile maybe try the Gerber baby carrot soak ( I think there's a thread about it somewhere).
I hope he'll be OK


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## zovick (Mar 28, 2021)

Melissacoop said:


> It was at 1:30pm but they called and canceled it due to an emergency surgery!


Well, that may be good fate, and perhaps by tomorrow, the tortoise will be acting normally again. It certainly doesn't seem that you have been doing anything that would cause a life-threatening problem, although the hair in the stool is a bit concerning.

I used to raise cats (which had the run of my house), and one of them constantly got into the bathroom waste basket and purposely ate the used dental floss! After a while, I learned I had to keep the bathroom door closed to prevent this. You may need to do something similar to keep the tortoise from eating your hair in the future, even though eating your hair is probably accidental rather than purposeful behavior..


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## Melissacoop (Mar 28, 2021)

I’ve had pets all my life and even my dogs and cats poop out my long hairs. Of course, my luck could’ve run out with the tortoise.I was expecting a reprimand about the hair as I mentioned it but since I soak him daily and he poops daily And eats high fiber I was hoping it wouldn’t be a problem. I’m going to continue to soak today since the emergency vet called and canceled my appointment anyway and said they couldn’t do bloodwork today so if he’s not better in the morning I will take him tomorrow I put him out in his grass in the sun and I guess it got too hot and he did get up and walk to seek shade. He wasn’t wobbly or anything but he did plop down as soon as he got out of the sun. So I know he can walk , he’s just choosing not to.


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## Melissacoop (Mar 28, 2021)

Lyn W said:


> Have they rescheduled?
> Meanwhile maybe try the Gerber baby carrot soak ( I think there's a thread about it somewhere).
> I hope he'll be OK


They said I could come later tonite but they can’t do bloodwork today so I’m gonna hold out one more day. He did just walk to get out of the sun but he’s not interested in food or patrolling his area. I’m going to soak again now. Thank you for your concern.


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## Melissacoop (Mar 28, 2021)

zovick said:


> Well, that may be good fate, and perhaps by tomorrow, the tortoise will be acting normally again. It certainly doesn't seem that you have been doing anything that would cause a life-threatening problem, although the hair in the stool is a bit concerning.
> 
> I used to raise cats (which had the run of my house), and one of them constantly got into the bathroom waste basket and purposely ate the used dental floss! After a while, I learned I had to keep the bathroom door closed to prevent this. You may need to do something similar to keep the tortoise from eating your hair in the future, even though eating your hair is probably accidental rather than purposeful behavior..


Yes , unfortunately my hair drops everywhere and we made the enclosed patio a living area where we can hang out with the tortoise while he free roams so he accidentally ingests the hair off the ground when he eats. I’m going to start sweeping daily as to catch the hair on the broom before he comes outside.


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## Jan A (Mar 28, 2021)

Melissacoop said:


> Yes , unfortunately my hair drops everywhere and we made the enclosed patio a living area where we can hang out with the tortoise while he free roams so he accidentally ingests the hair off the ground when he eats. I’m going to start sweeping daily as to catch the hair on the broom before he comes outside.


Don"t beat yourself up. Your hair falls out even If you walked around with a swim cap on. It's just more obvious if you have long hair. Take a nap. Your stress stresses your tort. Besides swim caps are just not in vogue these days.


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## Melissacoop (Mar 28, 2021)

Jan A said:


> Don"t beat yourself up. Your hair falls out even If you walked around with a swim cap on. It's just more obvious if you have long hair. Take a nap. Your stress stresses your tort. Besides swim caps are just not in vogue these days.


Thanks Jan. I can’t get more stressed than I am today. I’m exhausted and worried but I do feel slightly better than last night. At least he is keeping his head out and eyes open today.


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## Yossarian (Mar 28, 2021)

Tom said:


> I don't want to tell you to wait and see, and then have the tortoise die. I would probably wait and see, but your situation is different, and I'm not watching what you are watching. Trust your gut. Go with your gut. IF (big IF) your tortoise has hair strands wrapped up in its intestinal tract, or if the tortoise ate something poisonous, there really isn't anything a vet can do anyway. If it were my tort, I'd put him in the bath tub with warm water and try to get the tortoise treadmill going. Like a hot walker for a colicy horse. Keep the water warm, a little deeper than normal, and supervise closely. The larger size and slippery surface sometime gets them trudging and all that leg movement get things moving.




I feel the same way, I actually did post to say wait and see but deleted it because I couldnt be sure and the sitting in the open without moving was worrying. I would probably wait and see myself, but I couldnt advise someone else to do that under the circumstances.


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## Yvonne G (Mar 28, 2021)

Lyn W said:


> Have they rescheduled?
> Meanwhile maybe try the Gerber baby carrot soak ( I think there's a thread about it somewhere).
> I hope he'll be OK


Actually, the babyfood soaks are for tortoises with swollen shut eyes that haven't been eating for a long time. I don't think it applies in this instance.


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## Lyn W (Mar 28, 2021)

Yvonne G said:


> Actually, the babyfood soaks are for tortoises with swollen shut eyes that haven't been eating for a long time. I don't think it applies in this instance.


Thanks Yvonne. I thought they were for torts generally under the weather and not eating........learnt something new again.


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## Melissacoop (Mar 28, 2021)

Yossarian said:


> I feel the same way, I actually did post to say wait and see but deleted it because I couldnt be sure and the sitting in the open without moving was worrying. I would probably wait and see myself, but I couldnt advise someone else to do that under the circumstances.


Thank you for your concern. I didn’t end up taking him today but am calling first thing in the morning but I do understand how it’s difficult to give someone else advice on what they should do. ?


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## Melissacoop (Mar 28, 2021)

Tom said:


> The big BM is a promising sign. The hair is not.
> 
> The opuntia meal should help push things through, but long hairs can get caught up and wrapped around the intestinal tract. Its possible that they'd see some sign of this on an X-ray, but also possibly not.
> 
> ...


@Tom I plan on taking him to the vet tomorrow as he did not perk up the rest of the day. I soaked three times and no more stool but I feel he was posturing to go a few times but didn’t so I’m worried about a blockage. I’m taking him to the Exotic Specialty Office that is featured on Animal Plamet so hopefully they won’t offer the vitamin and Baytril injections. I know the vitamin injection is not necessary but what is the issue with the Baytril? Is it the wrong antibiotic for them or just the “cure all” approach? I’m just wondering if they want to give him a different antibiotic injection if that is advised or just oral meds?
Thanks for your time as always. ?


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## Tom (Mar 29, 2021)

Melissacoop said:


> @Tom I plan on taking him to the vet tomorrow as he did not perk up the rest of the day. I soaked three times and no more stool but I feel he was posturing to go a few times but didn’t so I’m worried about a blockage. I’m taking him to the Exotic Specialty Office that is featured on Animal Plamet so hopefully they won’t offer the vitamin and Baytril injections. I know the vitamin injection is not necessary but what is the issue with the Baytril? Is it the wrong antibiotic for them or just the “cure all” approach? I’m just wondering if they want to give him a different antibiotic injection if that is advised or just oral meds?
> Thanks for your time as always. ?


Injectable Baytril is extremely caustic. Its like injecting straight bleach into them. Oral Baytril is fine, if the situation calls for it. If your tortoise has a blockage, I don't see what antibiotics would do.


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## Melissacoop (Mar 29, 2021)

Tom said:


> Injectable Baytril is extremely caustic. Its like injecting straight bleach into them. Oral Baytril is fine, if the situation calls for it. If your tortoise has a blockage, I don't see what antibiotics would do.


Gotcha!! I just soaked him( no poop) then stuck Mazuri right in front of him and he’s eating it!


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## Melissacoop (Mar 29, 2021)

Good morning ? 
thank you all for your concern and advice with my little guy. I’m hoping, fingers crossed he’s turning the corner. After a warm soak this morning, I put Mazuri right in front of his face and he came out to eat it!! Then he went to burying himself!! Two days ago I tried that and he didn’t eat so I’m hoping it was a stomach upset. I’m going to keep up with twice a day soaks and enticing foods and see if I can get him back to normal. ?


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## Tom (Mar 29, 2021)

Melissacoop said:


> Gotcha!! I just soaked him( no poop) then stuck Mazuri right in front of him and he’s eating it!


Thats a good sign.

Opuntia works very well as an intestinal lubricant and really seems to loosen them up. I'd offer more of that too.


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## Krista S (Mar 29, 2021)

Melissacoop said:


> Gotcha!! I just soaked him( no poop) then stuck Mazuri right in front of him and he’s eating it!


Eating is a very good sign! I’ve been thinking about your little tort nonstop, so please keep us posted on how the vet visit goes If you still choose to take him. I’m so happy things seem to be headed in the right direction now though.


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## Melissacoop (Mar 29, 2021)

Tom said:


> Thats a good sign.
> 
> Opuntia works very well as an intestinal lubricant and really seems to loosen them up. I'd offer more of that too.


Ok. I will. I’ve postponed the vet visit for now. Thank you!


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## Yossarian (Mar 29, 2021)

Tom said:


> Injectable Baytril is extremely caustic. Its like injecting straight bleach into them. Oral Baytril is fine, if the situation calls for it. If your tortoise has a blockage, I don't see what antibiotics would do.



Risky this . . . but maybe this is what Trump was talking about when he suggested injecting disinfectant. . . . . nah who am i kidding, he meant straight old bleach


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## Melissacoop (Mar 29, 2021)

Krista S said:


> Eating is a very good sign! I’ve been thinking about your little tort nonstop, so please keep us posted on how the vet visit goes If you still choose to take him. I’m so happy things seem to be headed in the right direction now though.


I’ve postponed the vet visit for now. We’ll see how today goes. He was burying himself so I’m hoping he’s getting back to normal. Thank you for your kind words!


Yossarian said:


> Risky this . . . but maybe this is what Trump was talking about when he suggested injecting disinfectant. . . . . nah who am i kidding, he meant straight old bleach


omg!??‍


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## Melissacoop (Mar 29, 2021)

H guys!
Just got home from work. Little guy wasn’t asking to come out. Still buried from this morning but I brought him out for afternoon sun and grazing. He sat in his shell for about 20 minutes. I went and got him some moistened Mazuri and stuck it right in front of his nose again. It took about 15 minutes but he finally went for it. Also ate a small amount of hibiscus. Usually he will eat it all but at least he ate. Now he is gingerly walking around. Seems alittle off with his footing and just looks a little off but he’s moving!!
I will continue to soak but I think he is slowly rebounding. 
Anybody want to take a guess at his gender? I know he’s still small but take a guess!


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## Melissacoop (Mar 30, 2021)

_Hi guys,

Im driving myself crazy with this tortoise. The only thing I can get him to eat is Mazuri. He does walk from where I put him to another place to stash. Doesn’t look well to me. Now I can’t tell if he looks alittle yellow. I would imagine torts can get jaundice, too?
I’m thinking I should just take him in for bloodwork and X-rays. Where do they draw blood from a tortoise? How do they give fluids? ( if at all?)
@Tom @zovick _


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## harrythetortoise (Mar 30, 2021)

Melissacoop said:


> _Hi guys,
> 
> Im driving myself crazy with this tortoise. The only thing I can get him to eat is Mazuri. He does walk from where I put him to another place to stash. Doesn’t look well to me. Now I can’t tell if he looks alittle yellow. I would imagine torts can get jaundice, too?
> I’m thinking I should just take him in for bloodwork and X-rays. Where do they draw blood from a tortoise? How do they give fluids? ( if at all?)
> @Tom @zovick _


I would personally take him to the vet asap if he were mine. Make sure it is someone who has experience with tortoises...


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## Melissacoop (Mar 30, 2021)

Now he’s eating some cactus! I’m starting to feel like a crazy person! Maybe he just needs more time??‍


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## Melissacoop (Mar 30, 2021)

harrythetortoise said:


> I would personally take him to the vet asap if he were mine. Make sure it is someone who has experience with tortoises...


Right? If it weren’t for the fact that sometimes it can do more harm than good, stress, etc.


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## AgataP (Mar 30, 2021)

Melissacoop said:


> Now he’s eating some cactus! I’m starting to feel like a crazy person! Maybe he just needs more time??‍



It’s OK - I am the same way!! One day Herbie didn’t want to eat and I was in panic mode till I realized he chomped down whole bunch of grass in his enclosure and simply was full. 
I think maybe now you teaching him how to get my moms all attention ??

I truly hope he is getting better. 
Go ahead vent as much as you need - it helps with stress. 


Hugs.


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## ZenHerper (Mar 30, 2021)

Deep breaths. Brains need oxygen to properly observe, process, analyze, and make decisions.

OK. Mazuri is perfectly fine -- especially when the digestive organs may need something really ground down and simple. Soak them to keep hydration optimal, and continue warm soaks for him 3 times daily so absorption through the vent is possible, even if he doesn't *feel* thirsty. (Helps keep the digestive organs moving as well.)

Animals live by instinct and are very sensitive to vibes around them. Seriously. If you are stressing out, he will start to worry...is there a predator? An earthquake? A flooded river pounding down toward the house?

Step back, deep breath. Observe.

Let him get back to whole leaves and stems when he feels up to it.


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## Melissacoop (Mar 30, 2021)

AgataP said:


> It’s OK - I am the same way!! One day Herbie didn’t want to eat and I was in panic mode till I realized he chomped down whole bunch of grass in his enclosure and simply was full.
> I think maybe now you teaching him how to get my moms all attention ??
> 
> I truly hope he is getting better.
> ...


Thank you so much! I can’t stand to see any of my pets not feel well. I worked at a small animal vet for 35 years so dogs and cats are no problem. This is new territory for me! Lol.


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## Melissacoop (Mar 30, 2021)

ZenHerper said:


> Deep breaths. Brains need oxygen to properly observe, process, analyze, and make decisions.
> 
> OK. Mazuri is perfectly fine -- especially when the digestive organs may need something really ground down and simple. Soak them to keep hydration optimal, and continue warm soaks for him 3 times daily so absorption through the vent is possible, even if he doesn't *feel* thirsty. (Helps keep the digestive organs moving as well.)
> 
> ...


Thank you so much! He actually ate some hibiscus and alittle bit of cactus. I think he’s slowly making progress. I think I just panicked. It’s not a money thing taking him to the vet. It’s the stress on him ( or her).


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## ZenHerper (Mar 30, 2021)

Melissacoop said:


> Thank you so much! He actually ate some hibiscus and alittle bit of cactus. I think he’s slowly making progress. I think I just panicked. It’s not a money thing taking him to the vet. It’s the stress on him ( or her).



The only kind of progress reptiles make is Slow. lol 

As long as it's Forward progress, that's fine.


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## Tom (Mar 30, 2021)

Melissacoop said:


> Thank you so much! He actually ate some hibiscus and alittle bit of cactus. I think he’s slowly making progress. I think I just panicked. It’s not a money thing taking him to the vet. It’s the stress on him ( or her).


These are good signs.

Did you do the bathtub thing? I think he may have had a blockage. The bathtub/tortoise treadmill will help it pass. Just like a horse with colic that wants to lay down, you have to make it get up and move.


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## zovick (Mar 30, 2021)

Melissacoop said:


> _Hi guys,
> 
> Im driving myself crazy with this tortoise. The only thing I can get him to eat is Mazuri. He does walk from where I put him to another place to stash. Doesn’t look well to me. Now I can’t tell if he looks alittle yellow. I would imagine torts can get jaundice, too?
> I’m thinking I should just take him in for bloodwork and X-rays. Where do they draw blood from a tortoise? How do they give fluids? ( if at all?)
> @Tom @zovick _


Hopefully you won't need to go to the vet, but to answer your question about the venipuncture site for tortoises, there is a plexus of veins just under the surface of the skin between the base of the neck and the front leg on either side. This is the easiest place to get blood from a tortoise for lab work.


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## Melissacoop (Mar 30, 2021)

Tom said:


> These are good signs.
> 
> Did you do the bathtub thing? I think he may have had a blockage. The bathtub/tortoise treadmill will help it pass. Just like a horse with colic that wants to lay down, you have to make it get up and move.


I tried. He didn’t move. Lol. He’s acting so timid with every sudden move. He did actually expel a lot of cloudy urine with some urates which was shaped like a plug like that may have been stuck. They were creamy though. Not dry at all. He did eat some cactus and hibiscus today. Not a lot but a fair amount. I’ll just keep soaking let him take his time.


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## Melissacoop (Mar 30, 2021)

zovick said:


> Hopefully you won't need to go to the vet, but to answer your question about the venipuncture site for tortoises, there is a plexus of veins just under the surface of the skin between the base of the neck and the front leg on either side. This is the easiest place to get blood from a tortoise for lab work.


Like the jugular vein? Do they sedate them for that?


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## zovick (Mar 31, 2021)

Melissacoop said:


> Like the jugular vein? Do they sedate them for that?


It is a spot where veins from the head and legs come together forming a sort of bubble under the skin in the area between the base of the neck and the front leg on each side. From there the blood drains back to the heart to be re-oxygenated and recirculated.

It is done with a simple needle stick just as in humans and no anesthesia is used as a rule. A good vet can do this in a few seconds.


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## Melissacoop (Mar 31, 2021)

zovick said:


> It is a spot where veins from the head and legs come together forming a sort of bubble under the skin in the area between the base of the neck and the front leg on each side. From there the blood drains back to the heart to be re-oxygenated and recirculated.
> 
> It is done with a simple needle stick just as in humans and no anesthesia is used as a rule. A good vet can do this in a few seconds.


Ok. Thank you for this information . It’s looking like I won’t need to take him after all but I like to be educated!?


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## Melissacoop (Apr 4, 2021)

I just wanted to thank everyone that offered advice and took the time to send good vibes and and help last week. I’m happy to report my little guy is back to normal!


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