# Rattle snakes and tortoises



## Joma (Nov 2, 2018)

For those of you that live in rattlesnake territory. Do you worry about a rattler getting in your outdoor enclosure? I’m assuming the effect of a bite would be similar in tortoises to that in mammals? In my experience, the snakes would rather avoid than engage (at least adult snakes) and tortoises are so slow I imagine they would not be seen as a significant threat. But I have enough around my place that I get my dogs vaccinated each April with the rattler vaccine. What methods have you used to prevent them getting in? They are so agile ...


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## Yvonne G (Nov 2, 2018)

I don't know how true it is, but I've heard that as a cold-blooded animal, tortoises are not on a snake's vision as something to attack.


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## Via Infinito (Nov 2, 2018)

Yah I have wondered about this
because rattle snakes actually use and live in the burrows tortoises make in the wild
That means they actually share the space with close proximity.
It's even captured on this documentary





So what happened if the snake is startled and bite the tortoise?


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## Tom (Nov 2, 2018)

I worry about me getting bit by a snake hanging around in my tortoise pens! I don't worry about the tortoises at all. Even if a snake did find its way into the tortoise enclosure, it would be very unlikely to bite the tortoise. Even if it did bite the tortoise, it would have to get it right in the eye, neck or base of the legs to find a spot soft enough for the fangs to penetrate.

We are definitely in rattlesnake territory here and I find 10-20 around the ranch annually, but in all my years out here, it has never been a problem for any of the tortoises.


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## Joma (Nov 2, 2018)

Via Infinito said:


> Yah I have wondered about this
> because rattle snakes actually use and live in the burrows tortoises make in the wild
> That means they actually share the space with close proximity.
> It's even captured on this documentary
> ...



Huh! Interesting video. It said their shells protect them from the snake bite. I guess that's true as long as the snake strikes high lol. I also have a lot of Bull snakes near me, which do eat lizards, birds and rodents. Who knows about tortoises? Rural living I guess. I'm going to have to think on how to keep snakes out of an outdoor enclosure. Coyotes, hawks and other predators are an easier fix. But snakes are trickier.


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## Joma (Nov 2, 2018)

Tom said:


> I worry about me getting bit by a snake hanging around in my tortoise pens! I don't worry about the tortoises at all. Even if a snake did find its way into the tortoise enclosure, it would be very unlikely to bite the tortoise. Even if it did bite the tortoise, it would have to get it right in the eye, neck or base of the legs to find a spot soft enough for the fangs to penetrate.
> 
> We are definitely in rattlesnake territory here and I find 10-20 around the ranch annually, but in all my years out here, it has never been a problem for any of the tortoises.


 
Very good to know. What about Bull snakes for a smallish Tortoise?


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## Tom (Nov 2, 2018)

Joma said:


> Very good to know. What about Bull snakes for a smallish Tortoise?


It would have to be a very large bull snake and a very small tortoise. We get 7+ foot gopher snakes here, same genus and species as your bull snakes, Pituophis catenifer, but a different subspecies. Again, in over 20 years, I've never had an issue. Technically a 6+ foot gopher or bull could probably eat a 2" tortoise, but a 4+ inch tortoise is probably safe, even if they did happen to encounter each other.


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## KBeam (Nov 3, 2018)

Via Infinito said:


> Yah I have wondered about this
> because rattle snakes actually use and live in the burrows tortoises make in the wild
> That means they actually share the space with close proximity.
> It's even captured on this documentary
> ...



Thanks for sharing! That’s really interesting!


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## orv (Nov 3, 2018)

We have a 5' foot plus racer that has enjoyed living in close proximity to our CDTs for several years now without event. My wife saw a small rattler warming itself on the rocks across our street this summer, but thus far there have been no negative snake events in our yard. As with Tom, both CDTs and rattlers are indiginous to our area, but they seem to live in relative harmony.


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## Pastel Tortie (Nov 6, 2018)

Joma said:


> Huh! Interesting video. It said their shells protect them from the snake bite. I guess that's true as long as the snake strikes high lol. I also have a lot of Bull snakes near me, which do eat lizards, birds and rodents. Who knows about tortoises? Rural living I guess. I'm going to have to think on how to keep snakes out of an outdoor enclosure. Coyotes, hawks and other predators are an easier fix. But snakes are trickier.


I think snakes would be a greater concern if you were likely to have eggs and hatchlings coming out of the ground in your tortoise enclosure.

Standard guidance for limiting the presence of snakes is to mow frequently and keep the grass mowed short, and to remove or eliminate places where they like to hide, or where the critters they eat like to hide.

@Tom knows more about snakes than I do. I have heard of some people putting in a wide perimeter of a sharp, jagged gravel, as an intended deterrent... but I do not know if it worked. 

If you had a small enough mesh size for hardware cloth or sturdy screening, you could probably keep most snakes out.


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## TechnoCheese (Nov 6, 2018)

Anyone seen this video?


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## TammyJ (Nov 7, 2018)

TechnoCheese said:


> Anyone seen this video?


Yes, I remembered it from a while back. It's great!


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## SPILL (Nov 7, 2018)

Not a tortoise, but a box turtle and rattlesnake share an enclosure at the St. Louis zoo.


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