# Outdoor Home for Sulcata... Need help!



## sg93063 (Oct 18, 2009)

I live in Simi Valley, CA. (L.a. area) and have a three year old Sulcata named Star. He's been living outside during the summer and now it's time to make him a winter home.

My dilema, I need definitave advise on an enclosure that will provide safe shelter. I've seen a few enclosures online but am unsure of the safety. One was a "Rubbermaid" shed with an oil-filled radiator and I read about using a heat pad from Osborne.

Tempatures during the winter range from 80F during tha day to 30F's - 40F's at night here and I need an enclosure that will suffice.

Detailed plans/specs and pics for an eclosure would be appreciated and direct contact from a local expert would be ideal ([email protected]).

Thanks, Shawn


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## chadk (Oct 18, 2009)

I have an 8x4 shed that is split and houses 2 sullies. It is insulated and has plastic strips for doors that they can go in and out as they like. I'm only using heat lamps right now. One for each. The ambient temps are about 70-75. They can sit right under the lamp if they are cold, or get a few feet away to be cooler. Where you are, it would work even better. If it is 80 outside, they would surely be outside too. But you could pull the plug during the day if needed.


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## Yvonne G (Oct 18, 2009)

I recently demolished my sulcata, Dudley's, cinderblock house and built him an insulated dog house. Here's the link:

http://tortoiseforum.org/thread-4238.html?highlight=dudley

http://tortoiseforum.org/thread-4744.html?highlight=dudley

Also, if you go to the first page on the forum and click on enclosures, there are many, many more ideas for housing a tortoise outside.

Yvonne


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## DAC8671 (Oct 18, 2009)

I use an XL dogloo for 5 yr old Ralph. During the summer months, I just put a heavy towel over the door. In the winter, I cut a shower curtain liner into strips, then layer them about 3-4 deep and afix them to the door. Then I put the heavy towel over the door on colder night. Inside my husband drilled some holes in the ceiling so he could attach a small piece of wood, we put nails in it, then afixed a heat lamp. His substrate is straight Timothy Hay. We are in San Diego, so days in the winter are usually in the 60's. Nights are 30-40-50's. When it rains, we put a tarp over the whole thing. We bagged and heavily taped the connection from the heat lamp to the extension cord. The heat lamp says it's only for indoor use. The lamp never gets wet, the connections never get wet (though the extension cord itself does, but it's an outdoor cord). The cord for the lamp stays under the tarp, so it doesn't get wet. The dogloo is on cement, his enclosure is about 3x4 feet on cement, then about 15x4 feet on the grass.





















This year we are considering making a type of greenhouse, but only for cover. We are going to make a frame out of pvc pipe and stretch shower curtain liner (or heavy duty plastic) over the top and part of the sides for when it rains. We will put it over his dogloo and part of the enclosure. We'll take pics of this when we get it done.


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## sg93063 (Oct 18, 2009)

I viewed the photos and they look good. What is the red mat that appears in one of them? Is it a heating mat? If so, do they work well or can it be dangerous by overmeating?



chadk said:


> I have an 8x4 shed that is split and houses 2 sullies. It is insulated and has plastic strips for doors that they can go in and out as they like. I'm only using heat lamps right now. One for each. The ambient temps are about 70-75. They can sit right under the lamp if they are cold, or get a few feet away to be cooler. Where you are, it would work even better. If it is 80 outside, they would surely be outside too. But you could pull the plug during the day if needed.



What heat lamps do you use to heat such a large area?


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## katesgoey (Oct 19, 2009)

I have the rubbermaid sheds which are approx. 4'w x 3' deep x 3'tall with a lid, inside I have insulated the interior back and sides with plywood then put foam insulation between the shed wall and the plywood. I use two lights in each shed - one is a black bulb, the other holds a ceramic heat emitter (CHE) that I will use during the winter when the temps too low (in addition to the black bulb). I use carpet runner vinyl strips across one door leaving the door open during the day and closed at night. The other door stays closed in a locked position (that's the side where I hang the lamps. I use a tension shower curtain rods across the width top to hold the clamped lights and I have ziptied the clamps to the rod to ensure they don't fall off the rod.


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## Yvonne G (Oct 19, 2009)

I use farrowing pads (pig blankets) for all my larger tortoises. I check the temperature they are giving off every day and sometimes twice a day. I have never had a problem with them. I don't use them for smaller tortoises because they don't seem to understand that they can get off of the pad if it gets too hot. I buy mine from:

Osborne Industries
120 N. Industrial Av, Osborne, KS, 67473

800 255-0316

www.osborne-ind.com/

They are called Stanfield heat pad and come in different sizes at different prices. I also use the F911 controller to maintain the temperature. If you use the pad without the controller, the pad gets too hot. Don't buy the smaller controller (model F300), as it is a piece of junk.

I take out the pig blankets every spring, clean them up and store them. I feel this helps to make them last longer. I clamp the cord to the wall so the tortoise can't move them around and damage the cord. 

YVonne


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## sg93063 (Oct 19, 2009)

katesgoey said:


> I have the rubbermaid sheds which are approx. 4'w x 3' deep x 3'tall with a lid, inside I have insulated the interior back and sides with plywood then put foam insulation between the shed wall and the plywood. I use two lights in each shed - one is a black bulb, the other holds a ceramic heat emitter (CHE) that I will use during the winter when the temps too low (in addition to the black bulb). I use carpet runner vinyl strips across one door leaving the door open during the day and closed at night. The other door stays closed in a locked position (that's the side where I hang the lamps. I use a tension shower curtain rods across the width top to hold the clamped lights and I have ziptied the clamps to the rod to ensure they don't fall off the rod.




Thanks. This sounds like the way I'd like to go! Any pictures by any chance?:shy:

A few questions...

So when you say one door stays locked, can I assume that each shed has two doors? Each of which can be locked independantly?

Did you use spray insulation from spray cans (like DAP or GoodStuff) between plywood and shed walls?

Is the CHE readily available? Is it just a "bulb" type unit that screws in to a standard heatlamp socket?

What type bedding do you use inside the sheds? Is there any concern that either the black bulb or the CHE could pop/explode due to temperature fluctuations and start a fire?

Thanks in advance... I appreciate everyones help!


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## katesgoey (Oct 19, 2009)

The rubbermaid shed I use is similar to (but not exactly like) this one: 
http://www.samsclub.com/shopping/na...90&pid=_Froogle&ci_src=14110944&ci_sku=676386

The lid opens like this one:
http://www.walmart.com/catalog/prod...00000003260350&ci_src=14110944&ci_sku=8143892

The heat emitter (CHE) looks like this: http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3689121

You will need a porcelin light fixture with a ceramic socket like this: 
http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752571#prodTab1

It is important you use the ceramic socket with the emitter. I check the sheds (and lights,temps) daily (every morning I open the doors and evenings, I close them - so yes, I guess there is always a concern, but I keep an eye out for those things and so far, so good (knock wood). Oh, I also use heavy duty outdoor extension cords.

I insulated the interior walls of the shed first with the silver type insulation sheets, then screwed three "walls" together from plywood and slid it in to fit as close as possible, then used spray foam (be sure to spray the bottom area first, then the top half - because of the design of the shed there are ledges between the top and bottom interior. (When you measure, check for interior "ledges" in the back corners, if you have these on your model, cut the plywood to fit underneath them to secure the tightest fit).

I have used no particular bedding - currently nothing but a little topsoil. I've tried hay and organic topsoil, but I think I'm going to add the rubber mats that Yvonne has used (we have used these in our horse trailer so I have one I can cut to fit). I wouldn't use hay again because I always worried it could become a fire hazard. 

If the weather cooperates, I will try to get some photos uploaded for you - but if I forget, please forgive me, I'll get to it as soon as possible - sorry, I have alot going on this week it seems). 

Much of what I've done was inspired by Yvonne (thanks again Yvonne for great ideas). The rubbermaid shed idea was reconfigured between the deck box at russiantortoise.org and one on the sulcata station website. Compared to purchasing the Rubbermaid sheds or Dog Igloos, I think its much less expensive to make a double walled, insulated, water-sealed shed out of plywood....have fun putting it all together no matter which way you decide to go.


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## sg93063 (Oct 20, 2009)

You guys are AWSOME!!!! Thanks so much for all of the advise! I've been stressing about the thought of putting this all together but am now more at ease. I ran into an old friend of mine yesterday who, as it happens, raises and supplies reptiles to pet shops (including Sulcatas) and he hasn't been as helpful!

We (my 6 year old daughter who's pet Star is, my wife and I) are committed to making the best possible home for Star and I'm confident that we now have the information necessary. I'll post pictures of the progress as it comes together.

I would love to speak with you and/or Yvonne in person to discuss other ideas. I've set up an email account for direct contact if you would like to chat. Please email me at [email protected] and I will send you my phone #.

Thanks again for the input! - Shawn and Family


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## chadk (Oct 20, 2009)

sg93063 said:


> I viewed the photos and they look good. What is the red mat that appears in one of them? Is it a heating mat? If so, do they work well or can it be dangerous by overmeating?
> 
> 
> 
> ...






For the smaller tort side, he has a rubber bin as a hide inside the larger space. It has some substrate (soil + peat) and a CHE. Their is an isulated floor on that side, with a little bit of substrate (soil+peat+some hay) layered on it.

The bigger tort has a red 250 heat lamp that I typically use for my chicks\ducklings\goslings in the spring. It works fine for the tort. 

I chose not to use a floor for the bigger tort. He likes to dig and I figure this is a good way to get a little exercise on those days that are too rainy or cold to get out and roam the yard. I pre-dug some for him to get him started in the right direction (under the other torts floor area). I then back filled his hole with soil + peat. The peat is a nice insulator and holds the heat well. It also holds the humidity well.

So far, it looks like the ambient temps in the shed are in the mid 70's and relative humdity in the 50s% range. I need to get a better idea of the basking spot areas, but I'm confident that they are in a good range.

I do plan on adding a space heater in a safe wood enclosure the help keep the ambient temps stable in the freezing weather this winter. It may not be necessary, but I want another heat source in case a CHE fails or the heat lamp fails.


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## milky (Oct 21, 2009)

if we put tortie outside will it get attack by cats ? because my area here quite a number of cats..


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## Yvonne G (Oct 22, 2009)

It has been my experience that cats aren't interested in tortoises. However, if Torty is a very small tortoise there could be some interest as a toy. Any time you put a small tortoise outside the pen has to be protected from above with some sort of cover over it. Birds have been known to carry off baby tortoises.

Yvonne


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## dmmj (Oct 22, 2009)

I have never had a cat attack any of my outside turtles or tortoise, I can not say it will never happen but most of the cats in my neighborhood seem to just like looking from a distance.


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## sg93063 (Oct 30, 2009)

I'm just finishing my outdoor winter enclosure for my sulcata (Star) and was hoping for some further input on heating the area.

I purchased an outdoor "Rubbermaid" type shed and insulated it with R-13 fiberglass behind 3/8 inch plywood surrounding the entire interior (including the lid). The final interior demensions are approx, 47" wide x 24" deep x 36" high. One door will remain closed at all times and the other will be opened for access unless closed at night if very cold. The subtrate will be a layer of topsoil covered with timothy hay. I've also run electrical to the structure on a 15 amp GFCI cicuit with waterproof receptical in a separate box inside the shed (but not located in the actual living compartment).

During my research it's been recommended that I use everything from Kane heat pad with rheostat only, to a combination of radiant oil heater plus ceramic bulb and UV-B source. I want to do this for the long term and am therefor turning to this forum for your educated advice!

Here's what I've come up with...Any input or alternate suggestions would be appreciated.

1. 150 Watt ceramic bulb hung over the enclosed portion of the shed at approx. 24".
2. Helix DBS-1000 thermostat to precisely regulate voltage to the ceramic bulb based on the probed temp at tort level. Will the ceramic bulb work if voltage is regulated (like on a dimmer)?
3. Since access to the yard will be available year round, I don't see a need for any UV products inside the enclosure but will make it available via timer if I must restrict outdoor access due to weather for a prolonged period of time.

Thanks in advance for any input!


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## chadk (Oct 30, 2009)

I wouldn't worry about UVA or UVB at all. Even if you have cloudy rainy weather for a few weeks or more... 

The CHE on a rehostat or T-stat would work fine. Are you going to use it to manage the basking spot, the ambient temps. or what?

Timothy hay can mold pretty easily, so if you go that route, watch it closely.

I chose to have more than one heat source incase a bulb or che goes out. And I have a plan in place in case the power goes out completely to all heat sources on a cold day.


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## Yvonne G (Oct 30, 2009)

I don't use the UV bulbs with any of my tortoises. However, all of my enclosures are outside. So, except for the babies, they all have access to go outside if they choose. And on nice sunny days, I prop open the lid of the babies habitat so they can get some sun too. 

I don't think you need to worry about the UV bulb.

I'd sure like to see a picture of your "shed" when you've completed it. Oh, and a picture of Star might be nice too!

Yvonne


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## sg93063 (Oct 30, 2009)

chadk said:


> I wouldn't worry about UVA or UVB at all. Even if you have cloudy rainy weather for a few weeks or more...
> 
> The CHE on a rehostat or T-stat would work fine. Are you going to use it to manage the basking spot, the ambient temps. or what?
> 
> ...



Great point on the hay, I never thought of the "mold" issue! Do you have an alternate suggestion that works well for substrate?

Since we live in So. California, even in the winter the sun is out much of the time so I am not so concerned about basking. (Should I be?) There is a location in our yard that Star retreats to which is sheltered and receives southern sun all day. So the main point in the enclosure is ambient temperature. Also, the Helix thermostat is a line voltage regulator which means it's always on. So, unless the temp inside the enclosure exceeds the pre-programmed target (at which point he'll be outside anyway), the CHE will be emitting heat over half of the shed.

Curious... What is your power failure backup plan?


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## Laura (Oct 30, 2009)

They recommend you dont put anything on top of the pads. and with a heat source, like a bulb, you might have to worry about fire. If they are inside a hut, and its dark, they really dont need to burrow.. The hut IS the burrow...


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