# IS THE MVB REALLY BETTER STRAIGHT DOWN?



## wellington (Jul 5, 2012)

Another member, StudentoftheReptile, posted a thread with this very interesting link in it. 
http://www.tortoisetrustforum.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=8079

After reading it, I feel that the advice about making sure our MVB lights hanging straight down and not on an angle may not be the best advice. 

I would like your opinions. However, please read the article first. Then you will understand why I am asking about this.

Thank you StudentoftheReptile for that post. It was very interesting.
Thank you everyone for reading it and participating in this thread.
I fixed it.
I don't know why if you click on my link it doesn't work. If you click on the like in the thread it came from it does work. I copied and pasted it, so the link is exact. If a mod. Can fix it please do. Otherwise hopefully it will work if you type it in the address bar.


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## StudentoftheReptile (Jul 5, 2012)

Well, aside from the effectiveness of UV emissions and how the tortoise absorbs them from the MVB bulb, from a strictly product integrity standpoint, they should be mounted straight down. Having them at an angle has proven to compromise the integrity of the bulb, this shortening its lifespan.

However, getting to the topic you are referring to, it certainly raises questions. Personally, I have switched from using MVBs to a combination of ceramic heat emitters and tube flourescent bulbs, not necessarily for the reasons brought up in the thread I linked to, but for maintaining constant temps 24/7, while having a completely dark nighttime period....something I could not achieve while using a MVB.

After thinking this over a little, one could experiment by constructing an apparatus to simulate the sun's ever-moving position. Have a small series of heat lamps fixated to a flat platform facing down. Multiple heat bulbs would perhaps solve the issue of a single concentrated heat source. Perhaps you could use one MVB in the middle to provide UVB. In any case, attach that platform to a rotating device that starts the day, facing that platform almost directly sideways into the enclosure...to simulate the rising sun. And methodically raise/rotate on a time table, with that platform directing the heat bulbs straightdown into the enclosure in the middle of the day, and then ending the day at the opposite side of the enclosure.

I hope I explained that well enough. A very elaborate and expensive way to simulate natural basking behaviors in your tortoise in an indoor environment, most definitely. I'd like to see the results of such an experiment.


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## jaizei (Jul 5, 2012)

Does this work:
http://www.tortoisetrustforum.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=8079


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## DeanS (Jul 5, 2012)

I like the MVB pointing straight down on the basking spot...preferably some kind of stone or cement slab...you get the idea! This should ALWAYS be the hottest spot in your enclosure! All other heat is ambient and should vary throughout!


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## Yvonne G (Jul 5, 2012)

If I'm remembering correctly, its the manufacturer who says it must be mounted vertical. It shortens the life of the bulb to mount it at an angle.


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## wellington (Jul 5, 2012)

The reason I believe it is best to be put on an angle. In the article/experiment, the UVB is Absorbed through the head and legs, skin. The example showed straight down, heating the shell but not the skin. On the angle, although only hitting one side of the tort, it did hit a larger portion and included the legs. Which would also in my opinion, not burn the tort as often as it might pointing straight down. Granted this shortens the life of the bulb. However, I am more interested in the life of my tort then I am the bulb.



StudentoftheReptile said:


> Well, aside from the effectiveness of UV emissions and how the tortoise absorbs them from the MVB bulb, from a strictly product integrity standpoint, they should be mounted straight down. Having them at an angle has proven to compromise the integrity of the bulb, this shortening its lifespan.
> 
> However, getting to the topic you are referring to, it certainly raises questions. Personally, I have switched from using MVBs to a combination of ceramic heat emitters and tube flourescent bulbs, not necessarily for the reasons brought up in the thread I linked to, but for maintaining constant temps 24/7, while having a completely dark nighttime period....something I could not achieve while using a MVB.
> 
> ...



I get your idea. Which I think would work, with the exception that I think it would make the enclosure way to hot for any tort to withstand for any amount of time. 
I am going to rethink my lighting also. Not sure yet if I want to do what you are doing. Or I was also thinking, like the article said, putting two MVB on an angle towards each other. I would have them on for only a short time, maybe 2-3 hours and then only CHE for heat and a reg. Low watt. Incandescent for lite. I also had thought about fluorescent for UVB and a radiant heater for heat and eliminating the MVB and CHE all together, as I didn't like the burning the tort, before the tort actually got upto temp.


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## StudentoftheReptile (Jul 5, 2012)

wellington said:


> The reason I believe it is best to be put on an angle. In the article/experiment, the UVB is Absorbed through the head and legs, skin. The example showed straight down, heating the shell but not the skin. On the angle, although only hitting one side of the tort, it did hit a larger portion and included the legs. Which would also in my opinion, not burn the tort as often as it might pointing straight down. Granted this shortens the life of the bulb. However, I am more interested in the life of my tort then I am the bulb.





Well, of course.

In light of this information, perhaps MVBs are fine for other reptiles, such as iguanas, bearded dragons, and Uromastyx (the latter two are "flat-bodied" and would use the straight-down angle of the MVB to its full advantage. But obviously, not ideal for the basking behaviors of tortoises and turtles.
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> I get your idea. Which I think would work, with the exception that I think it would make the enclosure way to hot for any tort to withstand for any amount of time.



Well, a lot of other variables would come into play. The enclosure would have to be pretty large to accommodate this type of experiment!



> I am going to rethink my lighting also. Not sure yet if I want to do what you are doing. Or I was also thinking, like the article said, putting two MVB on an angle towards each other. I would have them on for only a short time, maybe 2-3 hours and then only CHE for heat and a reg. Low watt. Incandescent for lite. I also had thought about fluorescent for UVB and a radiant heater for heat and eliminating the MVB and CHE all together, as I didn't like the burning the tort, before the tort actually got upto temp.



Personally, I think those burns are usually in cases of larger animals trying to warm themselves under a single heat lamp. You see it in adult tortoises, adult iguanas and monitors and large crocodilians. I have never seen it happen with a smaller animal, because you wouldn't have that problem: the small reptile will have warmed its entire body before there is any risk of burning. A large lizard or tortoise will park it underneath a single lamp and try to warm itself for several hours, while its only heating up that one spot, ultimately burning it.

So just to allay any concerns, I don't think a single heat lamp for a hatchling/juvenile tortoise would be a problem. Once the tortoise gets past 6-8," most keepers look to other methods anyway.


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## Redstrike (Jul 7, 2012)

They were trying to mimic the angle of the sun while warming the tortoise to examine heat distribution on the animals body at a particular time of the day. I don't see how this has anything to do with changing the angle of your MVB. First, as previously stated, the manufacturers claim the angling the bulb will reduce its life. Second, the suns position changes throughout the day, the angled MVB will not, remaining in the tortoises eyes while it is exploring its enclosure. Why would you want to subject your tortoises' eyes to constant UVB glare from an artificial bulb? 

They were simply comparing the distributional warming from the sun versus a MVB, showing it is not as efficient or effective as natural sunlight.


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## wellington (Jul 7, 2012)

Redstrike said:


> They were trying to mimic the angle of the sun while warming the tortoise to examine heat distribution on the animals body at a particular time of the day. I don't see how this has anything to do with changing the angle of your MVB. First, as previously stated, the manufacturers claim the angling the bulb will reduce its life. Second, the suns position changes throughout the day, the angled MVB will not, remaining in the tortoises eyes while it is exploring its enclosure. Why would you want to subject your tortoises' eyes to constant UVB glare from an artificial bulb?
> 
> They were simply comparing the distributional warming from the sun versus a MVB, showing it is not as efficient or effective as natural sunlight.



My concern with this idea on angleing the bulb was the fact that the bulbs UVB Hanging Straight down dose not hit the parts of the body that can absorb the UVB. I wouldn't never want to expose my tort to anything that would hurt him. However, I am not sure that the glare of the lights UVB would be any different then the glare of the suns UVB. Besides, my tort does not bask himself much and when he does, he is usually off to the side. Which, as I type this, maybe the UVB is hitting the right areas as he his off on an angle, sorta speak. The results the angled light pictures showed seems way more useful of the UVB. I really didn't like the fact that the torts are getting the top of their shells hot, while still not having their inner core temps up. Hence the burning of the top shell before proper body temps are reach to the rest of the body, inside and out. Obviously, there is much to learn and a better way needing to be found for the artificial lighting/UVB and heating of our torts. I just am examining options. I like the MVB the best, until I read and seen that research. Now I am rethinking. My winter setup. Hopefully to get it better and safer.


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