# Tortoises in the cold?



## TortoiseKeeper6 (Jul 16, 2017)

Hi! I live in Colorado and in Colorado we get some pretty cold winters. I really wanted a sulcata tortoise or a mountain tortoise but my dreams are now crushed of getting one.  Are there any good tortoises for Colorado? If so I don't mind big Tortoises.


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## Yvonne G (Jul 16, 2017)

Your best bet is to get a species that hibernates. . . greek, hermanni, etc.

Think about it: there's a reason there are no native tortoises in Colorado.


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## TortoiseKeeper6 (Jul 16, 2017)

Yvonne G said:


> Your best bet is to get a species that hibernates. . . greek, hermanni, etc.
> 
> Think about it: there's a reason there are no native tortoises in Colorado.


Could you give me more tortoises that hibernate?


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## wellington (Jul 16, 2017)

Why can't you get a sulcata? I live where there is cold, snowy winters. Anywhere from 4-6 months of cold and snow. With the proper heated and insulated shed that's a good size, 10x12 at least, you could have a sulcata. Of course you have to be able to also afford to pay the electrical bill to heat it which won't be cheap. Many people live in the cold snowy areas that have sulcatas that will still wonder outside in the snow.
Even people living in CA and AZ need to provide heat for their torts for those cold winter days they will have. 
No one has the perfect conditions for a tortoise unless they live in that specific species original state and/or country. 
Getting the tortoise you want really depends on the room you have and what you can afford to do.


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## TortoiseKeeper6 (Jul 16, 2017)

wellington said:


> Why can't you get a sulcata? I live where there is cold, snowy winters. Anywhere from 4-6 months of cold and snow. With the proper heated and insulated shed that's a good size, 10x12 at least, you could have a sulcata. Of course you have to be able to also afford to pay the electrical bill to heat it which won't be cheap. Many people live in the cold snowy areas that have sulcatas that will still wonder outside in the snow.
> Even people living in CA and AZ need to provide heat for their torts for those cold winter days they will have.
> No one has the perfect conditions for a tortoise unless they live in that specific species original state and/or country.
> Getting the tortoise you want really depends on the room you have and what you can afford to do.


On my introduction post I was asked what tortoise I wanted. I responded with a mountain tortoise or a sulcata tortoise. Another person said that I shouldn't have a sulcata because we get frozen winters. I didn't want to get a tortoise that would have to stay inside so often and make it unhappy. Also does the same thing apply to mountain tortoises?


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## wellington (Jul 16, 2017)

All tortoises where you and I and a whole lot of other people live have tortoises that can't stay outside 24/7 year round. It's not ideal in the colder snowy states, but if that's what you want, can afford to build a large heated shed for winter, then that's what you should get. There are a lot of tortoises that live in more ideal states that are kept in small cramped enclosures. Just because the owner lives in warmer, no/less snow states of let's say AZ or CA or FL doesn't mean the tortoise is happy! 
Any tortoise you get will have to live inside part of the year. So, what, we should ever own a tortoise because we choose to live where we live? Of course not! Do what you can afford. If you can't provide a large winter shed for a sulcata or mountain tortoise then do a smaller species that you can provide still a large area, but maybe not as large as an adult sully would need.
Like I said before, unless someone owns a native to their state tortoise, we all have tortoises that have to adapt to an area that's not quite right for them. Do what you can afford, there is no tortoise that can live year round outside in the snow and cold.


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## Clamhandsmcgee (Jul 16, 2017)

I agree with Wellington. If you're prepared to spend time/money on winter accommodations, there is no reason you can't have a sulcata. Sulcatas are quite a bit cheaper than other tortoises, and sometimes free. It would be easier to care for something like a Russian tortoise (smaller and hibernates.).


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## WithLisa (Jul 16, 2017)

Maybe you can keep mediterranean tortoises outside all-year. 
What about testudo marginata? Not as big as a sulcata, but size doesn't really matter.


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## TortoiseKeeper6 (Jul 16, 2017)

WithLisa said:


> Maybe you can keep mediterranean tortoises outside all-year.
> What about testudo marginata? Not as big as a sulcata, but size doesn't really matter.


Hi! I agree that size doesn't matter. I think I've came to a conclusion I'll build a large shed with lots of heating it won't be cheap but anything for tortoises but thanks for the suggestion!


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## wellington (Jul 16, 2017)

WithLisa said:


> Maybe you can keep mediterranean tortoises outside all-year.
> What about testudo marginata? Not as big as a sulcata, but size doesn't really matter.


There is NO tortoises that can be kept outside in cold snowy climate.


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## Tom (Jul 16, 2017)

wellington said:


> With the proper heated and insulated shed that's a good size, 10x12 at least, you could have a sulcata.



Just for the record, there are some people who would disagree with this statement.

How much time have you spent around large sulcatas? I'm not fond of keeping 12" leopard tortoises in 120 square feet for months at a time, but given their size and their nature, I think its adequate. Not ideal, but adequate. But a 100+ pound sulcata? No way. They are way too active and way too big for that.

Everyone has their "line". Their idea of what is okay or not okay. Keeping a giant tortoise locked up in a little outdoor shed for half the year is not okay by my standards. That crosses my line. If I lived somewhere with frozen winters I would not keep sulcatas. Letting them go outside in the snow is not cool with me either. At one time I was contemplating moving to Iowa. I figured I'd have to build a 50 x 100 insulated barn with heated floors and an automatic back up generator.

I think its good that we all share and articulate our thoughts on the matter, and the OP can decide where his own "line" is.


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## Tom (Jul 16, 2017)

wellington said:


> There is NO tortoises that can be kept outside in cold snowy climate.


There are people all over the world that hibernate temperate species of tortoises outside under the snow. I personally don't think its safe and I would not risk my tortoises that way, but lots of people in Europe do it that way and GB does it up in NY.


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## WithLisa (Jul 16, 2017)

wellington said:


> There is NO tortoises that can be kept outside in cold snowy climate.


Of course it's recommendable to keep a close eye on the tortoise (in my first winter I checked the temperature every two hours in frosty nights, I'm much more relaxed now ). In very cold areas, a heated box might be necessary. 
But as Tom said, it is a very common and probably the most successful hibernation method in some European countries. 

Since I don't know much about Colorado I can't really tell if it would work there too. 

@TortoiseKeeper6 All the best, whatever species you choose!


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## wellington (Jul 17, 2017)

Tom said:


> There are people all over the world that hibernate temperate species of tortoises outside under the snow. I personally don't think its safe and I would not risk my tortoises that way, but lots of people in Europe do it that way and GB does it up in NY.


I was thinking along the lines of keeping/housing one outside in the cold, no large shed for the winter months,no hibernation. 
My brain didn't expand into hibernation


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## wellington (Jul 17, 2017)

WithLisa said:


> Of course it's recommendable to keep a close eye on the tortoise (in my first winter I checked the temperature every two hours in frosty nights, I'm much more relaxed now ). In very cold areas, a heated box might be necessary.
> But as Tom said, it is a very common and probably the most successful hibernation method in some European countries.
> 
> Since I don't know much about Colorado I can't really tell if it would work there too.
> ...


I wasn't thinking along the lines of shed or hibernating. I was thinking along the lines of a native species that lived in cold snowy areas. Box Turtles and Turtles live where it gets very cold and snowy, but they all hibernate. My brain wasn't thinking in the way yours was. I was stuck in first gear


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## wellington (Jul 17, 2017)

Tom said:


> Just for the record, there are some people who would disagree with this statement.
> 
> How much time have you spent around large sulcatas? I'm not fond of keeping 12" leopard tortoises in 120 square feet for months at a time, but given their size and their nature, I think its adequate. Not ideal, but adequate. But a 100+ pound sulcata? No way. They are way too active and way too big for that.
> 
> ...


Ideal is if we all lived in the area our torts are from. A 10x12 would be a minimum of course larger is always better. However, it's been done by many, having a large tortoise in the cold, snowy states. If that's what someone wants, I think they should get it, as long as they know the extra cost and housing needed. 
My leopards have a lot more summer space then of course their winter space. They barely use half of it, specially the girls and we have pretty good summer temps and humidity for them.


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## Tom (Jul 17, 2017)

wellington said:


> Ideal is if we all lived in the area our torts are from. A 10x12 would be a minimum of course larger is always better. However, it's been done by many, having a large tortoise in the cold, snowy states. If that's what someone wants, I think they should get it, as long as they know the extra cost and housing needed.
> My leopards have a lot more summer space then of course their winter space. They barely use half of it, specially the girls and we have pretty good summer temps and humidity for them.



I tend to leave this topic alone because its hard to discuss it without people feeling personally insulted or attacked. You are my friend and you know I think highly of you and know that you have good intentions, so I feel okay about discussing this topic with you.

What I'm talking about here is the difference between an active 100 pound tortoise locked in a shed for 4-5 months with snow and ice outside, vs. a tortoise walking around outside in the sun in a large enclosure in 75-80 degree weather in January.

About the idea of "ideal": I live close to the natural range of the desert tortoise. They occur about 40 miles from my house and the weather is really pretty similar. Even still, any captive environment I provide would not be "ideal" in the sense of mimicking life in the wild. They can, and frequently do die, if not cared for properly, even though I am right here in what should be DT paradise. Tomas in Senegal also discovered this when he began captive breeding local sulcatas in their native environment. He ran into all sorts of problems until he figured out what adjustments needed to be made to help the babies thrive right their in their native environment. My point is this: The idea that a person has to live in the perfect environment for a given species is ridiculous to me. Even in a given species native environment, our captive environments cannot be made ideal. We all have to cope with and make adjustments to optimize our enclosures and environmental parameters depending on our climate. For example in my dry climate with warm/hot days and cool/cold nights, I must provide a heated and humidified night box for my sulcatas. This solves my temperature issues, helps with my humidity issues, and allows my tortoise to thrive. I see them out walking around, grazing freely, and laying eggs in the ground in January. Their life may not be perfect every day, but these compromises work with my conscience. I feel I've given them a "good" life. A 100 pound tropical tortoise locked in a shed for 4-6 months a year, or walking around in snow, does not agree with my conscience. I don't feel that is a "good" life, and I wouldn't do it.

Obviously, there is a spectrum. At one extreme, no captive environment, no matter how large, prefect or climate-correct is ever good enough. At the other extreme, a card board box in the basement and some lettuce once in a while is good enough. Obviously, neither of these extremes make any sense to most people, but everyone is somewhere in the middle.

I've decided where I stand on this spectrum and what I can live with. Have you? I mean in regards to sulcata?

Our OP will have to decide for himself where his own "line" is, and what will allow him to sleep with a clear conscience at night.


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## Clamhandsmcgee (Jul 17, 2017)

I live where it gets cold and snows a little. I have a 20x20 shed that when my sulcata hatchling gets bigger, he'll stay there in the winter. I'll give him the option to go outside though. I know it's not ideal, but I know it'll be a happy/healthy tortoise.


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## wellington (Jul 17, 2017)

I do want all tortoises to have as much space as possible. I think everyone should look into what the biggest area is they can do, and afford and get the tortoise of their choice that best fits. However, I also think they should get the tortoise they want even more, knowing the facts in doing so. 
Not that I love tortoises any less, but if we were talking about an animal that likes to run like say a horse, or an elephant, even a tiger or lion, then I would be all about them needing a proper sized enclosure for them to be allowed to act as their natural self. Watching my own tortoises, no I don't have a sully, who has plenty of summer/warmer months outdoor space, barely using half of it and spending a part of those days inside their shed and going in for the night so early, I'm not sure they "need" as much space to be happy and healthy. 
Plus the fact there are lots of sullies in the cold states that appear very happy and they don't have much more then a night box for those cold days they don't want to come out into the snow. A large shed will at least give room to roam while waiting out the hopefully short cold winter. We all do have our own lines that we will and will not cross.


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## Cowboy_Ken (Jul 17, 2017)

TortoiseKeeper6 said:


> Hi! I agree that size doesn't matter. I think I've came to a conclusion I'll build a large shed with lots of heating it won't be cheap but anything for tortoises but thanks for the suggestion!


 Happy? Not really, one lap around the heated house was enough.


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## TortoiseKeeper6 (Jul 17, 2017)

Cowboy_Ken said:


> Happy? Not really, one lap around the heated house was enough.
> View attachment 212958


If this was your photo why were you taking a picture instead of getting your tortoise inside their heated shed? Also that wouldn't be a problem if people would look at the weather to see when snow/low temps were coming. Now I can't vouch for wellington as I have no idea what it's like in Illinois but I can say where I live in Colorado I don't get a lot of snow it's a common misconception that Colorado is very cold and snows all the time. I get snow maybe 15 days a year but on those days I would be prepared. The same thing applies to the temperatures I get now it's not as hot as other states but it's manageable for the tortoise. Not trying to come off as rude though so don't take it that way.


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## Cowboy_Ken (Jul 17, 2017)

TortoiseKeeper6 said:


> If this was your photo why were you taking a picture instead of getting your tortoise inside their heated shed?


Most here know that is my tortoise and my photo. Why wasn't I carrying him back inside? I, for the most part, live the lives they want. Had he not been heading back inside, I would have gotten involved. Get to know me maybe and we can talk.


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## leigti (Jul 17, 2017)

Cowboy_Ken said:


> Most here know that is my tortoise and my photo. Why wasn't I carrying him back inside? I, for the most part, live the lives they want. Had he not been heading back inside, I would have gotten involved. Get to know me maybe and we can talk.


I know that Ken would not let his tortoise freeze out there in the snow.


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## wellington (Jul 18, 2017)

leigti said:


> I know that Ken would not let his tortoise freeze out there in the snow.


I guess this is my point. At least from what I have seen with a lot of members with sulcatas. They will wonder out in the snow. Of all the sulcata in the snow pics I have seen, I never heard of any of them getting sick. Now of course they are all adult sulcatas that I have seen and wouldn't suggest ever letting anything other then an adult to have free roam of a snowy yard. 
Also as the OP stated about the misconception of the amount of snow he gets in CO, it's the same for a lot of us. We don't have snow 24/7 for months on end. Less then a handful of times do we get a lot of snow that isn't gone in a day or two. One of the reasons I moved to a house that had to have a south facing yard. Lots of sun to melt any snow we do get much faster. Having a snow blower helps too. 
With all the tortoises produced each year, specially sulcatas, it's a very good thing that there are people in the snow states that will do what it takes to have one. 
Besides, no one/most don't seem to have a problem when it comes time to sell them to people in these areas.


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## daniellenc (Jul 18, 2017)

I live in Maryland where it is hot and humid as heck in the late spring, summer, and even early fall but bone dry and cold December-March/April. I went with a species I could carry myself knowing it couldn't live outdoors year round here unless I wanted to build an actual second home in my yard which I don't. If you can carry it, afford to build and maintain an outdoor shed, and have the room to spare go for it.


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