# LIONS,BEARS & WOLVES!



## african cake queen (Oct 19, 2011)

hi all, just seen that these animals are on the loose and being hunted down.its an animal sanctuary in ohio. the keeper was found dead and all animals on the run! i cant belive it. good luck to the animals. lindy


----------



## yagyujubei (Oct 19, 2011)

*RE: LIONS,BEARS & WOVLES!*

2011 - Page updated at 09:30 a.m. 
Tense hunt after zoo owner frees exotic animals, kills himself 


By ANDY BROWNFIELD and KANTELE FRANKO 
Associated Press 
Townspeople cowered indoors Wednesday as deputies with high-powered rifles hunted down and killed lions, bears and dozens of other exotic beasts that escaped from a wild-animal preserve after the owner threw their cages open and committed suicide.

After an all-night hunt, at least 30 of the 48 escaped animals had been gunned down. As of mid-morning, officers were still hunting for a grizzly bear, mountain lion and monkey.

Schools closed, parents were warned to keep children and pets indoors and flashing signs along highways told motorists, "Caution exotic animals" and "Stay in vehicle."

Neighbor Danielle White, whose father's property abuts the Muskingum County Animal Farm, said she didn't see loose animals this time but did in 2006, when a lion escaped.

"It's always been a fear of mine knowing (the owner) had all those animals," she said. "I have kids. I've heard a male lion roar all night."

Officers in the mostly rural area about 55 miles east of Columbus were under orders to shoot to kill for fear that animals hit with tranquilizer darts would run off and hide in the darkness.

The owner of the preserve, Terry Thompson, apparently released dozens of animals, including lions, tigers, bears and wolves, before committing suicide, said Muskingum County Sheriff Matt Lutz. Authorities would not say how he killed himself and no suicide note was found. Lutz wouldn't speculate on why he committed suicide.

The animals' cages had been opened and the farm's fences had been left unsecured, police said.

The sheriff's office had received numerous complaints since 2004 about animals at the property, Lutz said.

"This is a bad situation," the sheriff said. "It's been a situation for a long time."

Jack Hanna, former director of the Columbus Zoo and a nationally known wild animal expert, said that of the three animals believed to be unaccounted for, he was most concerned about the mountain lion, because of its impressive leaping ability. He said anyone confronting these animals should not run, because they will give chase.

Hanna defended the sheriff against criticism that the animals should have been captured alive.

"What was he to do at nighttime with tigers and lions, leopards, going out there?" Hanna said. "In the wild this would be a different situation."

The preserve in Zanesville had lions, tigers, cheetahs, wolves, giraffes, camels and bears. Lutz called the animals "mature, very big, aggressive" but said a caretaker told authorities they had been fed on Monday.


----------



## Guggie (Oct 19, 2011)

*RE: LIONS,BEARS & WOVLES!*

I was trying to figure out why this was in Books, Music , Movies and other media... I failed.


----------



## Grigor.Love. (Oct 19, 2011)

*RE: LIONS,BEARS & WOVLES!*

Whoa.


----------



## african cake queen (Oct 19, 2011)

*RE: LIONS,BEARS & WOVLES!*

its sad that this has happened.


----------



## pdrobber (Oct 19, 2011)

*RE: LIONS,BEARS & WOVLES!*

they had this on the news and said, we'll never know if he let them free as a gesture of cruelty(to the public. or to the animals) or kindness (toward the animals, twisted, but kind in "freeing" them)


----------



## african cake queen (Oct 19, 2011)

*RE: LIONS,BEARS & WOVLES!*

what a waste of wild life. hate seeing pictures on the news.


----------



## dmmj (Oct 19, 2011)

*RE: LIONS,BEARS & WOVLES!*

For his reasoning, I would think it is some kind of twisted freedom thought, no evidence, just thinking out loud.
Personally I don't like seeing all those animals put down because of their owners ( which I suspect) mental instability.

I didn't see but was this place "legal"?


----------



## CtTortoiseMom (Oct 19, 2011)

*RE: LIONS,BEARS & WOVLES!*

I cannot believe they are killing these animal's if they are shooting them than they can just as easily shoot tranquilizer dart's rather than bullets. Did he end his own life?


----------



## pdrobber (Oct 19, 2011)

*RE: LIONS,BEARS & WOVLES!*

they were saying that Ohio has some of the least strict laws about keeping exotics and such...and that he had a criminal record to begin with. 

Erin I think they were saying they were afraid that by using tranquilizers the animals being large species it would take some time for them to kick in and the animals might be more dangerous during that time, panicking and also they might run and hide somewhere they couldn't be found and escape capture.

it being a "rescue", I'm guessing that a lot of them might have been poorly socialized "pets" to begin with and quite aggressive and suffering because of the humans that have kept them and tormented them in doing so...

yes he killed himself apparently. but left no note.

The zoo team that was out there WAS trying to capture live.


----------



## fbsmith3 (Oct 19, 2011)

*RE: LIONS,BEARS & WOVLES!*

It's a nice idea, but tranquilizer darts are a messy. Depending where the animal is hit and even the health of the animal it will affect them differently. Also, they would have to know the exact weight of the animal seconds before they take the shot.

I am against the slaughter of all these animals, but it is the best reaction to a bad situation. 
Since Steve Erwin is no longer with us and Jack Hanna is on board I agree whatever Mr. Hanna says is the correct action.

I just think they should tranquilize the wolf. 
The wolf is the only animal that instinctually will not hunt humans.


----------



## dmmj (Oct 19, 2011)

*RE: LIONS,BEARS & WOVLES!*

well we all know Mr. irwin would be out there wrestling all of those animals himself. crikey


----------



## pdrobber (Oct 19, 2011)

*RE: LIONS,BEARS & WOVLES!*

interesting...didn't know that. but that doesn't mean it won't attack if scared or threatened which I'm sure they all are


----------



## Neal (Oct 19, 2011)

*RE: LIONS,BEARS & WOVLES!*



CtTortoiseMom said:


> I cannot believe they are killing these animal's if they are shooting them than they can just as easily shoot tranquilizer dart's rather than bullets. Did he end his own life?



I've heard quite a few people saying that it could have been just as easy to tranquilize them. Maybe I'm wrong, but I would think a wolf would take a lot less...uh..._tranquilizer power?_ (clearly don't know what I'm talking about) then a bigger african lion or bengal tiger. So I don't think it could have been just as easy to tranquilize them. Time was of the essence. There's no way they could have prepared for such an event by having enough tranquilizer rounds ready for each of the animals that escaped. Maybe it's just me, but I think they are justified in killing the animals. 

(quick edit - sorry, it seems before I submitted my response, a couple of others said almost the exact same thing)


----------



## CtTortoiseMom (Oct 19, 2011)

*RE: LIONS,BEARS & WOVLES!*

Thank's for explaining, I only heard bit's and pieces. I did not think of the weight of the animal's needing different amount's of tranquilizers, great point. What a crazy situation!


----------



## dmmj (Oct 19, 2011)

*RE: LIONS,BEARS & WOVLES!*

I don't think anyone here is happy about this, but in this situation the animal is paying the price for the deceased owner's actions. to little tranq and you got a pissed off animal to much and they would probably wind up dead anyways, and besides how much tranq does the average animal control office have available?


----------



## dmmj (Oct 19, 2011)

*RE: LIONS,BEARS & WOVLES!*

Ok this might be my dark humor coming out and some people may not like this following comment, but reportedly one of the monkeys was eaten by an escaped lion, So is that nature taking care of itself?


----------



## qcpunk (Oct 19, 2011)

*RE: LIONS,BEARS & WOVLES!*

HAHAHA I thought the same thing,dmmj 

I do truly feel for the animals though. Im surprised such a small, insecure facility would be allowed to house such a vast array of large animals. Such an unfortunate situation.


----------



## byerssusan (Oct 19, 2011)

*RE: LIONS,BEARS & WOVLES!*



CtTortoiseMom said:


> I cannot believe they are killing these animal's if they are shooting them than they can just as easily shoot tranquilizer dart's rather than bullets. Did he end his own life?



I AGREE 100% I just saw on the tv all the animals lined up that they have killed. I am literally sick to my stomach right now.


----------



## ascott (Oct 19, 2011)

*RE: LIONS,BEARS & WOVLES!*

Another example of why certain animals should not be kept by private parties ....I know some will not agree...and it is not every day that this would happen....however, when this type of thing does happen it is the animal that will always be discarded like garbage ....a complete shame. 

Also, how is it that they know exactly what it is that they are looking for/looking to shoot. The records of a man that killed himself? hmm


----------



## jackrat (Oct 19, 2011)

*RE: LIONS,BEARS & WOVLES!*

Tragic


----------



## Jacqui (Oct 20, 2011)

*RE: LIONS,BEARS & WOVLES!*



byerssusan said:


> I AGREE 100% I just saw on the tv all the animals lined up that they have killed. I am literally sick to my stomach right now.



I think this is one of those times, I am glad I don't have a TV. They may only have had freedom for a short amount of time and were no doubt very scared and nervous during that time, but atleast they died free.  Just such a total waste.


----------



## Cherbear (Oct 20, 2011)

*RE: LIONS,BEARS & WOVLES!*

This just happened a ten minute drive from my house. It was very strange on Wednesday morning before taking my kids outside to get on the bus and taking a flashlight first looking for tigers or bears before I would let them come out of the house. Very sad.


----------



## terryo (Oct 20, 2011)

*RE: LIONS,BEARS & WOVLES!*



Jacqui said:


> byerssusan said:
> 
> 
> > I AGREE 100% I just saw on the tv all the animals lined up that they have killed. I am literally sick to my stomach right now.
> ...



Well, you are lucky you don't have a TV. I sat here and cried when I saw all those dead beautiful animals. I kept thinking how scared they must have been. It was horrible.
You really don't have a TV?


----------



## Jacqui (Oct 20, 2011)

*RE: LIONS,BEARS & WOVLES!*



terryo said:


> You really don't have a TV?



I have an old set we use to watch DVDs and they play some games on it, too. Down here in the valley, nothing comes in without a dish or whatever and I am just too cheap to pay for the service.


----------



## DerekS (Oct 20, 2011)

*RE: LIONS,BEARS & WOVLES!*

This whole situation is just sad. I live about 2 and a half hours from this place. I have a guy on one of my routes who has a lion, bear, kangaroo and about 25 dogs. Ohio doesn't have many restrictions when it comes to exotics. They tried to pass a law at the beginning of last year but I can't remember if it took.


----------



## Jacqui (Oct 20, 2011)

*RE: LIONS,BEARS & WOVLES!*



DerekS said:


> This whole situation is just sad. I live about 2 and a half hours from this place. I have a guy on one of my routes who has a lion, bear, kangaroo and about 25 dogs. Ohio doesn't have many restrictions when it comes to exotics. They tried to pass a law at the beginning of last year but I can't remember if it took.



Is the caging for the lion and bear secure? Are they fairly decent in size and in stimulation sort of things or the small basic bare four walls held together with baling wire and a prayer?


----------



## DerekS (Oct 20, 2011)

*RE: LIONS,BEARS & WOVLES!*



Jacqui said:


> DerekS said:
> 
> 
> > This whole situation is just sad. I live about 2 and a half hours from this place. I have a guy on one of my routes who has a lion, bear, kangaroo and about 25 dogs. Ohio doesn't have many restrictions when it comes to exotics. They tried to pass a law at the beginning of last year but I can't remember if it took.
> ...



Ive never actually seen them. Ive only talked to the guy. He has a huge property so I would hope they are larger enclosures but he's a pretty eccentric character and might just own them to say he owns them.


----------



## yagyujubei (Oct 21, 2011)

*RE: LIONS,BEARS & WOVLES!*

Notice how in every news story they say "escaped" animals? This is the beginning of misinformation to pass more laws against private ownership. I think very few animals actually even left the property before being shot. Why were all the animals buried immediately? Each tiger (16) was probably worth several thousand dollars apiece even dead. How are they so positive that it was the owner who released them? No suicide note.


----------



## african cake queen (Oct 21, 2011)

*RE: LIONS,BEARS & WOVLES!*

hi, the news said there are more dog laws than wild animal laws there. the laws need to change in some state because of people like this. its the same with pit bulls in the wrong hands. it gives pit bulls a bad name. it was people who brought these animals here. they didnt just come here by them selfs. such a waste. ps. i do feel sorry for the people who live near the place where these animals where released.


----------



## Cherbear (Oct 21, 2011)

Well I don't know if this is the reason or not but, the night it happened someone tried to steal one of the dead lions. People have asked for them to stuff I guess, but they were denied. The animals are still owned by the wife so it may have been her decision on what was done on them. She still owns the ones that are alive in the zoo.


----------



## african cake queen (Oct 21, 2011)

hi, i heard that some people wanted the dead animals to stuff! can't they just be happy with stuffed animals? do they have to be real?


----------



## Jacqui (Oct 21, 2011)

momo said:


> hi, i heard that some people wanted the dead animals to stuff! can't they just be happy with stuffed animals? do they have to be real?



Myself once the animals were dead, why let them be a total waste by burying them? Why not use them for food or in this case to be stuffed?


----------



## dmmj (Oct 21, 2011)

I would imagine they could sell a stuffed exotic animal for upward of 10 thousand , that should help off set the cost of all the police force money that was used that night, want to be independent and keep exotic animals don't cry when the city sends you the bill for their services.


----------



## Cherbear (Oct 21, 2011)

Yeah, I know why people wanted them to stuff. Because they're worth quite a bit from what I understand. I understand where you guys are coming from though. I does seem like a waste to not use them. This man has raised many of them from cubs and bottle fed them and everything, which makes what happened confusing. I assume even though they were exotics that they they were still her pets and she wanted them to stay with her. That is only my best guess. I know this is on a totally different level but I had a 12 year old outside cat die this summer and I could not bear to have her anywhere but buried outside here at the house.


----------



## dmmj (Oct 21, 2011)

Well while personally I think stuffing a pet is kind of creepy, other people handle death of an animal different.


----------



## Cherbear (Oct 21, 2011)

I think so too. When we bought our house there was several stuffed things inside. I was glad to see them go.


----------



## pdrobber (Oct 21, 2011)

I'm guessing the wife of the man made the call to have them buried...On the news the sheriff said that the mass burial on the property would be guarded...


----------



## Laura (Oct 21, 2011)

Tiger bones... fetch huge money on the black market.. How long are they gaurding the pit?


----------



## Tom (Oct 21, 2011)

Words written on a page (laws) will never stop madmen from committing horrible acts. It appears that that's what this was.

This was a terrible tragedy. Its sad that whoever released these animals did what they did, but there is no sense in taking freedom away from sane people who have committed no crime.

And tranquilizers would not have worked in this situation for a number of reasons. In the real world it doesn't work the way it does on TV. Attempting to tranq these animals would likely have led to more suffering and eventual human death.


----------



## stephiiberrybean (Oct 22, 2011)

As much as I agree with the whole tranq's won't work thing. 
I did some research last night on this (gosh i love google!) 

They shot 18 rare tigers. They could have at least tranquilizers for a few of them.

Yes human lives were at risk but thats no need to go around killing rare animals! 
When an animal goes endangered humans are ALWAYS to blame for some reason. I thought we were meant to know better now? I thought we were meant to do better? I thought we were meant to be saving animals NOT KILLING THEM! 

I'm sorry but it really strikes a nerve. Animals do what nature intended them to do IT WAS NOT THEIR FAULT and yet they are the ones that lost their lives and got punished. 
We know better now so why aren't we doing better?

This situation IMO could have been dealt with a better. If your not going to have laws in place about exotic animals then be prepared for mad men to do things like this! 

I'm certainly glad we have much stronger laws about animals in England. It means things like this just do not happen. 

*I'm not having a dig at anyone FYI I'm just sharing my general thoughts and feelings on the matter!*


----------



## Terry Allan Hall (Oct 22, 2011)

*RE: LIONS,BEARS & WOVLES!*



dmmj said:


> For his reasoning, I would think it is some kind of twisted freedom thought, no evidence, just thinking out loud.
> Personally I don't like seeing all those animals put down because of their owners ( which I suspect) mental instability.
> 
> *I didn't see but was this place "legal"?*



Yes, there's still a few places w/o restrictions on exotic animal ownership.


----------



## Tom (Oct 22, 2011)

But there ARE laws and restrictions in place. Federal laws as well as state laws. USDA has very strict rules about housing animals and they are SUPPOSED to inspect every facility at least every 6 months. Local anti-cruelty laws are also in effect.

Rather than clamor for a whole host of NEW laws that also won't be effective, we should take a step back and examine WHY the current laws were not being enforced.

I'm glad you speak your mind Steph. Everyone should. No disrespect, but even with Mother England's draconian, oppressive laws, you guys still have the occasional atrocity occur. You might not have had THIS particular atrocity, but neither had we until a few days ago. My point is that words on a page, will never stop the bad guys of the world. Never has, never will. But it will sure put a damper on the good guys who actually obey the law.

Those would would surrender their freedom for promised safety, in the end, will have neither...


----------



## Jacqui (Oct 22, 2011)

Ummm guys, we aren't thinking about getting anything going here are we? I mean we ARE going to remember this is not in the debate section and we really don't want to damper this beautiful fall day, now do we?


----------



## african cake queen (Oct 22, 2011)

dmmj said:


> I would imagine they could sell a stuffed exotic animal for upward of 10 thousand , that should help off set the cost of all the police force money that was used that night, want to be independent and keep exotic animals don't cry when the city sends you the bill for their services.



that is true, another way to look at it. thanks



Laura said:


> Tiger bones... fetch huge money on the black market.. How long are they gaurding the pit?



you are too much!'lol'


----------



## Laura (Oct 22, 2011)

i wasnt joking.. there are people out there who will try to dig them up... Skulls and teeth and claws sell too... :-(

as for the tranq... sounds like a great easy solution... BUT besides what was already mentioned.. ; how long it takes for an animal to go down once sedated, and how much more dangerous they become.... FIRST you HAVE TO HAVE the drug,, you Must have the proper Gun and syringes to use, and most places dont have access to that, and if they did, it wouldnt be near enough for the size and amount of animals involved. I bet even the Zoo would have been able to do it all. And IF they could have.. rounding it all up and getting the staff together and out there, would have taken precious time. WHen you dart an animal, ( sometimes it misses or does not work) they become excited, scared and aggitataed, sometimes run off or come at the person who is closest. Get the dose wrong and you have a sedated animal still able to fight, or the wrong drug will kill some types.. It is not fun.. then you have to have 1-2 people keep an eye on that animal so they know when it goes down. With all the others running loose, the likely hood of getting attacked while assisting its 'friend' or them attacking the animal cuz its acting strange,, is HIGH! I hate what happened.. but in reality... its the only thing they could have done... only one to blame is the owner.

Unless they find out someone else is involved, and it was murder and not suicide... and blame Ohio for having no laws.. do they want to become Calif? where you cant even own a Ferret as a pet? Im on the fence with that.. we have our animal problems too...


----------



## yagyujubei (Oct 22, 2011)

What if this guy was a keeper at a large metropolitan zoo, and released animals? Would they call for laws to prevent zoos from operating? Since '07, they have inspected this facility 40 times. They have been hounding this guy for years to close, but he was within the law. Personally, I don't buy the suicide thing. He was in jail for a year, just got home 3 weeks ago, and THEN commits suicide? I read things from those who worked for the guy previously, and they said he loved those animals. They say he was $67,000 in debt, but he owned over $1 million in animals. I think that there will be new things revealed in this case once the FBI investigates. As far as the carcasses they hastily buried, they probably could have been sold for upwards of $100,000. Incidently, they broke the law by buring those animals there. A farmer cannot even legally bury a dead horse. It must go to a rendering plant. Considered toxic waste.


----------



## Angi (Oct 22, 2011)

I just saw a news clip that said that a vet visited the property and the conditions were deplorable. So the better question is why was something not done. If this is true why were the animals not taken away? Also I think it is strang that the police did not take the dead animals to do autopsisies (sorry abot the spelling). I think the man released the animals as a final FU before killing himself.


----------



## african cake queen (Oct 22, 2011)

Laura said:


> i wasnt joking.. there are people out there who will try to dig them up... Skulls and teeth and claws sell too... :-(
> 
> as for the tranq... sounds like a great easy solution... BUT besides what was already mentioned.. ; how long it takes for an animal to go down once sedated, and how much more dangerous they become.... FIRST you HAVE TO HAVE the drug,, you Must have the proper Gun and syringes to use, and most places dont have access to that, and if they did, it wouldnt be near enough for the size and amount of animals involved. I bet even the Zoo would have been able to do it all. And IF they could have.. rounding it all up and getting the staff together and out there, would have taken precious time. WHen you dart an animal, ( sometimes it misses or does not work) they become excited, scared and aggitataed, sometimes run off or come at the person who is closest. Get the dose wrong and you have a sedated animal still able to fight, or the wrong drug will kill some types.. It is not fun.. then you have to have 1-2 people keep an eye on that animal so they know when it goes down. With all the others running loose, the likely hood of getting attacked while assisting its 'friend' or them attacking the animal cuz its acting strange,, is HIGH! I hate what happened.. but in reality... its the only thing they could have done... only one to blame is the owner.
> 
> Unless they find out someone else is involved, and it was murder and not suicide... and blame Ohio for having no laws.. do they want to become Calif? where you cant even own a Ferret as a pet? Im on the fence with that.. we have our animal problems too...


 maybe after this, they will have what they need to save the animals.if they let people keep these animals , they should have what they need.its ALWAYS the animals that pay the highest price(their lives)they should be ready if they let people keep wild animals as pets.its not just this crazy guy, there are alot more out there!


----------



## Laura (Oct 22, 2011)

i wondered about the burying as well... dont they have incinerators there? rendering? cremation? whatever..


----------



## Jacqui (Oct 22, 2011)

yagyujubei said:


> What if this guy was a keeper at a large metropolitan zoo, and released animals? Would they call for laws to prevent zoos from operating? Since '07, they have inspected this facility 40 times. They have been hounding this guy for years to close, but he was within the law. Personally, I don't buy the suicide thing. He was in jail for a year, just got home 3 weeks ago, and THEN commits suicide? I read things from those who worked for the guy previously, and they said he loved those animals. They say he was $67,000 in debt, but he owned over $1 million in animals. I think that there will be new things revealed in this case once the FBI investigates. As far as the carcasses they hastily buried, they probably could have been sold for upwards of $100,000. Incidently, they broke the law by buring those animals there. A farmer cannot even legally bury a dead horse. It must go to a rendering plant. Considered toxic waste.


I had thought about and even talked with my husband about the same point, who is to say this would not or could not happen in a "real" zoo or a circus even for that matter.

I could see him committing the suicide now if you think about it. He's been gone for a year, so would have gotten a fresh look at his place when he came back. Maybe he realized just how bad things were. He may have had enough money in animals to sell to cover his debt, but would he have wanted to sell them? Think about the fact some of those he had hand raised. Would he want to sold to an unknown future? Possibly even a worse life then they already had. 

When the law enforcement people are involved, they can get court orders to allow them to by pass laws, such as burying the animals. Doing that saved the hassle of getting the trucks to haul the bodies, the manpower to guard the bodies until they were ashes, and all that would have added up to even bigger costs. Burying was the cheapest, easiest, safest, and quickest way to deal with it. The state and country want this all behind them as soon as possible, so all the bad publicity will die down and move on to the next horror news event.


----------



## Neal (Oct 22, 2011)

stephiiberrybean said:


> They shot 18 rare tigers. They could have at least tranquilizers for a few of them.



They did attempt to tranq. at least one of the tigers, it then ended up charging at the shooter I believe. It just wasn't a realistic solution to even do this for a few of them.


----------



## Tom (Oct 22, 2011)

Laura said:


> i wasnt joking.. there are people out there who will try to dig them up... Skulls and teeth and claws sell too... :-(
> 
> as for the tranq... sounds like a great easy solution... BUT besides what was already mentioned.. ; how long it takes for an animal to go down once sedated, and how much more dangerous they become.... FIRST you HAVE TO HAVE the drug,, you Must have the proper Gun and syringes to use, and most places dont have access to that, and if they did, it wouldnt be near enough for the size and amount of animals involved. I bet even the Zoo would have been able to do it all. And IF they could have.. rounding it all up and getting the staff together and out there, would have taken precious time. WHen you dart an animal, ( sometimes it misses or does not work) they become excited, scared and aggitataed, sometimes run off or come at the person who is closest. Get the dose wrong and you have a sedated animal still able to fight, or the wrong drug will kill some types.. It is not fun.. then you have to have 1-2 people keep an eye on that animal so they know when it goes down. With all the others running loose, the likely hood of getting attacked while assisting its 'friend' or them attacking the animal cuz its acting strange,, is HIGH! I hate what happened.. but in reality... its the only thing they could have done... only one to blame is the owner.
> 
> Unless they find out someone else is involved, and it was murder and not suicide... and blame Ohio for having no laws.. do they want to become Calif? where you cant even own a Ferret as a pet? Im on the fence with that.. we have our animal problems too...



Laura, this is my new favorite post of yours! 

yagi and Jaqcui, I was thinking the same thing. It wouldn't be that hard to get past the night watchman and do this at any number of zoos in the country. That was my point above. Bad guys will always do bad things, no matter what laws are passed as a result of this.


----------



## stephiiberrybean (Oct 22, 2011)

In reply to Tom - Yes even with Englands laws we do have things happen that shouldn't. In fact I think England are far too soft when it comes to a few certain things *cough* immigrants, benefit frauds etc etc..*cough*
But when it comes to animals there should be very strict laws, regulations and checks in place to ensure nothing like this can even happen and if it does then there is protocol in place to deal with it.



Neal said:


> They did attempt to tranq. at least one of the tigers, it then ended up charging at the shooter I believe. It just wasn't a realistic solution to even do this for a few of them.



Ahh ok, thank you. I didn't see that.

However in reply to the tranqs not being quick enough. They manage to tranq and take down bigger animals in africa safely and efficiently. Without cages from the back of open top trucks! Its a matter of seconds/minutes and the animal is down and can be safely moved or have health checks etc. 
If done properly no-one should get hurt and the animals get to keep their lives.


Sorry Jacqui, I won't reply now  I just wanted to get that out.


----------



## Tom (Oct 22, 2011)

Momo, its not just needing the right equipment and quantity of drugs. Its that sometimes you hit them just right with the right dose and it does nothing. They could run off into the night and then who knows what. I've had to dose big cats two and three times to knock them down and that is in a calm situation where they are in their home and relatively relaxed. When you add in adrenaline and all the craziness surrounding a situation like this, there is no way they could have made tranquilizers work. It is sad, but true. It would have been irresponsible, possibly criminal, for them to take such a chance. I too HATE what happened, but so far, I have not thought of another alternative. I would not be surprised to find out that some of the shooters went home and cried their eyes out. I would have...


----------



## stephiiberrybean (Oct 22, 2011)

Tom said:


> Momo, its not just needing the right equipment and quantity of drugs. Its that sometimes you hit them just right with the right dose and it does nothing. They could run off into the night and then who knows what. I've had to dose big cats two and three times to knock them down and that is in a calm situation where they are in their home and relatively relaxed. When you add in adrenaline and all the craziness surrounding a situation like this, there is no way they could have made tranquilizers work. It is sad, but true. It would have been irresponsible, possibly criminal, for them to take such a chance. I too HATE what happened, but so far, I have not thought of another alternative. I would not be surprised to find out that some of the shooters went home and cried their eyes out. I would have...



Thank you Tom 
That answers my question perfectly. I had not thought about adrenaline, strange situation etc factoring into it. Which I should have to be fair. I know better than most that adrenaline can over-ride even the strongest of sedatives, pain killers etc and thats in a human who knows your trying to help or a animal in it's normal enviroment/routine. So factor in an animal that thinks it's running and fighting for it's life and it'll just be 10x worse.


----------



## Jacqui (Oct 22, 2011)

stephiiberrybean said:


> .However in reply to the tranqs not being quick enough. They manage to tranq and take down bigger animals in africa safely and efficiently. Without cages from the back of open top trucks! Its a matter of seconds/minutes and the animal is down and can be safely moved or have health checks etc.
> If done properly no-one should get hurt and the animals get to keep their lives.
> 
> 
> Sorry Jacqui, I won't reply now  I just wanted to get that out.



What we see on movies, TV shows, and such are trained professional people going out to get previously known and planned for type of animal, so they know where to shoot the animal and how much to shoot them with. They tend to also not show you their mistakes, but they do happen and quite often. 

These were just lawmen who may have no knowledge or experience hunting or working with livestock or small game animals, let alone exotic ones. They were faced with a deadline to contain these animals any way they could before they escaped too far or hurt any humans.

It is sad they dies, but also think how fearful and stressed these animals would have been. Their whole world was upside down. Think of the noises, the sounds, the lights, the fear smells from other animals and people, and who knows what else. They would have been in shock, too. Would that have been fair for those animals to sit and deal with that for an unknown length of time? Plus where would they be going to? Are we placing them right back into the same place? What rescue or even a zoo could take them in without lots of preplanning, if they could even find places willing to take them at all. Sometimes it is more right and humane, to quickly end all the suffering and fear, then to do the thing that may make us humans feel better about ourselves.


----------



## Tom (Oct 22, 2011)

stephiiberrybean said:


> However in reply to the tranqs not being quick enough. They manage to tranq and take down bigger animals in africa safely and efficiently. Without cages from the back of open top trucks! Its a matter of seconds/minutes and the animal is down and can be safely moved or have health checks etc.
> If done properly no-one should get hurt and the animals get to keep their lives.



This is what they show on TV after substantial editing, but that is not how it happens. It often takes an hour or more and multiple doses to bring them down. The fastest I have ever seen a cat go down was around 12 minutes with a single does. We used a Ket/Val mix and even though he was down we had to pole syringe him with a second dose to get him down far enough to intubate him and get him on an IV. In other cases 2 hours and 3-4 doses STILL never brought the cat down. OR when they finally do go down, they have so much drug in them that they die before you can get in and reverse it...

In Africa they often use a drug called M99 for the big animals. I think it is banned in the US. The vet told me that a tiny drop on the skin could kill a human. Not safe.

It just would not have been safe to have 40 or 50 big cats running around loose in various states of being drugged. Anesthesia and tranquilization is a subject the few people in the general public understand. I only know it because I went to school for it, and understanding it is part of my job.


----------



## african cake queen (Oct 22, 2011)

Tom said:


> Momo, its not just needing the right equipment and quantity of drugs. Its that sometimes you hit them just right with the right dose and it does nothing. They could run off into the night and then who knows what. I've had to dose big cats two and three times to knock them down and that is in a calm situation where they are in their home and relatively relaxed. When you add in adrenaline and all the craziness surrounding a situation like this, there is no way they could have made tranquilizers work. It is sad, but true. It would have been irresponsible, possibly criminal, for them to take such a chance. I too HATE what happened, but so far, I have not thought of another alternative. I would not be surprised to find out that some of the shooters went home and cried their eyes out. I would have...


 yes, i would still be crying.


----------



## SailingMystic (Oct 22, 2011)

*RE: LIONS,BEARS & WOLVES!*

Wow.. I just did a quick search on pets - cats for sale and in Cleveland this is what comes up: http://www.asnclassifieds.com/tennessee/cleveland/pets/cats/d643-b64.html

Tiger cubs and cheetah cubs! It totally is unregulated and easy to own an exotic animal...this is so unfortunate for these animals.


----------



## dmmj (Oct 22, 2011)

lesson learned, only own tortoises.


----------



## african cake queen (Oct 22, 2011)

dmmj said:


> lesson learned, only own tortoises.



it would be nice.too many dum dums out there and thEy ruin it for people and the poor animals. dont they have nets that come out of some kind of gun that shoots a net on them?


----------



## fbsmith3 (Oct 22, 2011)

There were a lot of animals, but you are right. Why didn't they try to use nets on at least a couple of them. They only took alive the ones who chose not to leave their cages. 

I guess they shot some of them while they were still on the compound. The more I learn about this the more sick I become. 

There is a happy medium, allowing people to own anything they want as long as they get a permit. Although, if exotic pets become illegal only criminals will have exotic pets.


----------



## african cake queen (Oct 22, 2011)

SEEMS LIKE A LOT OF CRIMINALS OWN THEM NOW!


----------



## dmmj (Oct 22, 2011)

Personally I don't want more regulations and I don't want to criminalize owning exotics, because tortoises are just one step away (in most people's minds) away from exotic, though far less dangerous. I think that if a person has the time, money, and space then they should be able to own them, but I do think that a simple and cheap permit option should exist, look at most states who "permit" animals I personally think it is only a money raising venture. the state of california requires permits for california desert tortoises, but they are free to get.


----------



## Terry Allan Hall (Oct 22, 2011)

*RE: LIONS,BEARS & WOLVES!*



SailingMystic said:


> Wow.. I just did a quick search on pets - cats for sale and in Cleveland this is what comes up: http://www.asnclassifieds.com/tennessee/cleveland/pets/cats/d643-b64.html
> 
> Tiger cubs and cheetah cubs! It totally is unregulated and easy to own an exotic animal...this is so unfortunate for these animals.



Last summer at a Ft. Worth flea market there was a couple of guys selling just-weaned African lion cubs for $150 per kitten or 3/$350! Sold two while I stood there!

BTW, did you see how many "free" ads there were for monkeys on that site?


----------



## Jacqui (Oct 22, 2011)

momo said:


> SEEMS LIKE A LOT OF CRIMINALS OWN THEM NOW!



Looks around the forum trying to decide which of our members are criminals, since we all own wild animals otherwise known as turtles and tortoises...


----------



## Terry Allan Hall (Oct 22, 2011)

Jacqui said:


> momo said:
> 
> 
> > SEEMS LIKE A LOT OF CRIMINALS OWN THEM NOW!
> ...



Not me...I've just got odd-looking chihuahuas...


----------



## african cake queen (Oct 23, 2011)

Jacqui said:


> momo said:
> 
> 
> > SEEMS LIKE A LOT OF CRIMINALS OWN THEM NOW!
> ...


----------



## Jacqui (Oct 23, 2011)

momo said:


> Jacqui said:
> 
> 
> > momo said:
> ...




Tortoises could kill people. I can easily see someday a large adult sulcata killing a small child by crushing it.  Then turtles have caused human death via Salmonella passing.  They have caused fires, but to my knowledge luckily no humans have yet dies in one as far as I know.


----------



## Tom (Oct 23, 2011)

Ava, LOOK OUT!!! He's coming to crush you!!!


----------



## african cake queen (Oct 23, 2011)

Tom said:


> Ava, LOOK OUT!!! He's coming to crush you!!!



THAT WOULD MAKE A GREAT VIDEO! YOU MADE ME LAUGH AGAIN! THANK YOU. NICE PICTURE TOO!


----------



## SailingMystic (Oct 27, 2011)

*RE: LIONS,BEARS & WOLVES!*

Looks like Marian Thompson is getting the animals from the zoo this afternoon: http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/45063189/ns/us_news-life/


----------



## african cake queen (Oct 27, 2011)

i hope they do not go back there. good luck to the animals.



Jacqui said:


> momo said:
> 
> 
> > Jacqui said:
> ...


 squirrels , are fire bugs, too.i have seen children eat the grosses things. as much as i love kids they are germy too.'lol'

just saying......


----------



## SailingMystic (Oct 27, 2011)

*RE: LIONS,BEARS & WOLVES!*



SailingMystic said:


> Looks like Marian Thompson is getting the animals from the zoo this afternoon: http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/45063189/ns/us_news-life/



The zoo is trying to find a way to keep them there and safe. I wish we could help-- or do something ??


----------



## african cake queen (Oct 27, 2011)

*RE: LIONS,BEARS & WOLVES!*



SailingMystic said:


> SailingMystic said:
> 
> 
> > Looks like Marian Thompson is getting the animals from the zoo this afternoon: http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/45063189/ns/us_news-life/
> ...


 i know.


----------



## Terry Allan Hall (Oct 27, 2011)

*RE: LIONS,BEARS & WOLVES!*



SailingMystic said:


> SailingMystic said:
> 
> 
> > Looks like Marian Thompson is getting the animals from the zoo this afternoon: http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/45063189/ns/us_news-life/
> ...



Do we know categorically she can't properly take care of the few remaining (surviving) beasts?


----------



## SailingMystic (Oct 27, 2011)

*RE: LIONS,BEARS & WOLVES!*



Terry Allan Hall said:


> SailingMystic said:
> 
> 
> > SailingMystic said:
> ...



OK Jack Hanna, the zoo and lawers are not letting the animals go back to her (yet). She has 30 days-- and can come back. I saw this newly released article about the update. 
Sadly there is a disturbing photo here... I didn't realize they also killed a baby bear (small little guy). http://www.cleveland.com/open/index.ssf/2011/10/widow_blocked_from_reclaiming.html


----------



## Jacqui (Oct 27, 2011)

I see, the sheriff's department deemed a zebra to be such a dangerous animal, they had to kill it?????? Just lost a whole lot of respect for those folks. Sounds like they went beyond trying to protect the public and may have gotten into simply a killing spree of anything not human. An attitude of let's just shoot it down. Or bragging rights for later down at the near by watering hole? Sorry, I was on the side of law and order in this affair before, but really? Killing a zebra??


----------



## SailingMystic (Oct 27, 2011)

*RE: LIONS,BEARS & WOLVES!*

Zebra-- and this is why I'm mad. When the story first broke they reported camels (2) and giraffe !! Where are they?? There are not 50 animals there either. I asked this of the tidy show folks as well-- and they pulled any media related to camels and giraffes ! I wish someone local can provide just what animals were really there.


----------



## african cake queen (Oct 27, 2011)

*RE: LIONS,BEARS & WOLVES!*



SailingMystic said:


> Terry Allan Hall said:
> 
> 
> > SailingMystic said:
> ...


----------



## Terry Allan Hall (Oct 27, 2011)

Jacqui said:


> I see, the sheriff's department deemed a zebra to be such a dangerous animal, they had to kill it?????? Just lost a whole lot of respect for those folks. Sounds like they went beyond trying to protect the public and may have gotten into simply a killing spree of anything not human. An attitude of let's just shoot it down. Or bragging rights for later down at the near by watering hole? Sorry, I was on the side of law and order in this affair before, but really? Killing a zebra??



Maybe these 'bwana hunters" thought Thompson was harboring *carnivorous* zebras...

Sadly, this incident will enbolden the "Nanny-staters" to further try to ban ALL exotics, which could include our tortoises...


----------



## african cake queen (Oct 27, 2011)

Terry Allan Hall said:


> Jacqui said:
> 
> 
> > I see, the sheriff's department deemed a zebra to be such a dangerous animal, they had to kill it?????? Just lost a whole lot of respect for those folks. Sounds like they went beyond trying to protect the public and may have gotten into simply a killing spree of anything not human. An attitude of let's just shoot it down. Or bragging rights for later down at the near by watering hole? Sorry, I was on the side of law and order in this affair before, but really? Killing a zebra??
> ...



very, very,sad and bad.


----------



## Laura (Oct 27, 2011)

I want to know where the cheetahs are that were first reported being there too.. ;-)
I didnt know they shot a zebra.. maybe it was about to run out on the hiway? 
If this guy has a monkey infected with Herpes B.. there is no telling what illneses those other animals
could have..


----------



## dmmj (Oct 27, 2011)

Reportedly a lion ate the monkey.


----------



## SailingMystic (Oct 27, 2011)

*RE: LIONS,BEARS & WOLVES!*

There were more animals - I'm almost sure of it and that's why Hanna kept saying it was like Noah's ark. What about the horses that survived? Some were fed to the lions before he freed them. It's sickening. It's so unfair and yes-- any live animal in the area that night could've been shot. so sad- nets and a preparedness plan should've been in place.


----------



## african cake queen (Oct 28, 2011)

momo said:


> Tom said:
> 
> 
> > Ava, LOOK OUT!!! He's coming to crush you!!!
> ...



i love this picture!
lol


----------



## Tom (Oct 28, 2011)

Hey guys... have any of you been around any zebras? They are not like horses, behaviorally speaking, at all. They are very aggressive and dangerous animals. Every bit as dangerous as a lion. I have seen video from the SD Zoo of a keeper being carried around the zebra enclosure by his shoulder in a zebras mouth. He looked like a rag doll and the sound of a grown man screaming in pain and terror will never be forgotten. I have had them attempt to kill or injure me on several occasions completely unprovoked. And they are smart too. They plan their attacks.

Same story with camels. I have personally fought off many murder attempts and witnessed some VERY close calls.

I have seen giraffe aggression too, but they are less likely to come chase you down and "get" you than a zebra or a camel. The problem with a giraffe on the loose, I'm guessing, is their sheer size and flighty nature. An animal that size, in a panic, could seriously injure or kill someone very easily.

Listen, I'm not happy about these animals being killed either. I find it appalling, sad, outrageous and disgusting, to name just a few adjectives. I'm just asking everyone to keep an open mind and not form fantasies about bloodthirsty cops having fun on a wild animal killing spree. I am not a betting man, but I would bet a lot of money that THAT is not how it went down.


----------



## african cake queen (Oct 28, 2011)

hi, i am sorry for saying a turkey shoot was going on. i also dont belive the cops were injoying their jobs that day. i didnt mean that.its just a bad thing and i wish they had a better plan. ps. zebras kick butt! 'lol' lindy


----------



## SailingMystic (Oct 28, 2011)

*RE: LIONS,BEARS & WOLVES!*



Tom said:


> Hey guys... have any of you been around any zebras? They are not like horses, behaviorally speaking, at all. They are very aggressive and dangerous animals. Every bit as dangerous as a lion. I have seen video from the SD Zoo of a keeper being carried around the zebra enclosure by his shoulder in a zebras mouth. He looked like a rag doll and the sound of a grown man screaming in pain and terror will never be forgotten. I have had them attempt to kill or injure me on several occasions completely unprovoked. And they are smart too. They plan their attacks.
> 
> Same story with camels. I have personally fought off many murder attempts and witnessed some VERY close calls.
> 
> ...



I know what you mean -- and understand.. And many of those there that evening, night, and morning had no time to think-- what a terrible situation to be in. For everyone...


----------



## Jacqui (Oct 28, 2011)

Tom said:


> Hey guys... have any of you been around any zebras?



Yes I have, along with Zonkeys and camels. I think they went shoot happy out there.


----------



## Terry Allan Hall (Oct 28, 2011)

Tom said:


> Hey guys... have any of you been around any zebras? They are not like horses, behaviorally speaking, at all. They are very aggressive and dangerous animals. Every bit as dangerous as a lion. I have seen video from the SD Zoo of a keeper being carried around the zebra enclosure by his shoulder in a zebras mouth. He looked like a rag doll and the sound of a grown man screaming in pain and terror will never be forgotten. I have had them attempt to kill or injure me on several occasions completely unprovoked. And they are smart too. They plan their attacks.
> 
> Same story with camels. I have personally fought off many murder attempts and witnessed some VERY close calls.
> 
> ...



A neighbor, for whatever reason, has 3 zebras and 5 dromedaries...2 of the jen zebras are docile enough, and one of the jens is cart trained, but one (the jack) you must never turn your back on...EVER!

The camels are basically friendly, as well, but they're all "domesticated" camels...the zebras are only a generation or two from the African veldt.


----------



## Tom (Oct 28, 2011)

Camels can be sweet as pie. Mine is. It just depends on how they are worked with and how much they are worked with. Some of them are stone cold killers. The general public would not run into one of these all that often. They are usually kept in a safe area of a private compound. There was one at a compound that I frequently work at. His name was Hannibal and if you got close enough for him to grab you, he would pull you in and leave a stain where you once were. Obviously, I never got close enough.


----------



## african cake queen (Oct 28, 2011)

Tom said:


> Camels can be sweet as pie. Mine is. It just depends on how they are worked with and how much they are worked with. Some of them are stone cold killers. The general public would not run into one of these all that often. They are usually kept in a safe area of a private compound. There was one at a compound that I frequently work at. His name was Hannibal and if you got close enough for him to grab you, he would pull you in and leave a stain where you once were. Obviously, I never got close enough.
> [/quot i cant belive you have a camel too. how cool. did you get it as a baby?


----------



## Tom (Oct 28, 2011)

She was around 9 months old when I first started working her. She's 15 now. She's owned by the guy I work for, but I've been her primary trainer over all these years.


----------



## african cake queen (Oct 29, 2011)

Tom said:


> She was around 9 months old when I first started working her. She's 15 now. She's owned by the guy I work for, but I've been her primary trainer over all these years.



so cool. thank you.


----------



## fbsmith3 (Oct 29, 2011)

*RE: LIONS,BEARS & WOLVES!*

When I was a kid, a near by farmer had an Asian Elephant he won in a poker game. After a few months the local Animal people confiscated the elephant and she ended back with the owner who lost it in the poker game. 
They could not get her on the truck, so the farmer rode her to a "safe" location the local Animal "cop" judged as safe, you guessed it the original owners house. They Animal "cops" decided it was too much hastle. 
The funny part part was the farmer told us he was sorry to see her go, but she was a real tough animal to care for. 
Such is life in the back country.


----------



## Angrycowgoesmoo (Oct 29, 2011)

*RE: LIONS,BEARS & WOLVES!*



fbsmith3 said:


> When I was a kid, a near by farmer had an Asian Elephant he won in a poker game. After a few months the local Animal people confiscated the elephant and she ended back with the owner who lost it in the poker game.
> They could not get her on the truck, so the farmer rode her to a "safe" location the local Animal "cop" judged as safe, you guessed it the original owners house. They Animal "cops" decided it was too much hastle.
> The funny part part was the farmer told us he was sorry to see her go, but she was a real tough animal to care for.
> Such is life in the back country.



Aww they could of had just ride on top of her instead of doing it that way


----------

