# CHE fixture and feeding surface ??'s



## mousenut (Dec 16, 2010)

Hello, and thank you in advance...

1) Can a CHE (100w) be used in the "Zoo Med Mini Combo Deep Dome Lamp Fixture" even though it says it shouldn't be used in there? Seems sort of silly that the merc lights can but the CHE can't. Fire-fighting isn't on my list of "things to do" anytime soon.

2) Is slate use specifically for beak wear properties or should any decent bigger flat rock suffice?

3) Is cherry (solid) ok to use un-coated as a sight block etc. in an enclosure? I have lots of it so I'm not worried about replacing it every so often.


Baby Russian coming soon, more questions may follow...


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## coreyc (Dec 16, 2010)

Welcome to the forum

1) I would say no on the CHE like you said it says on the box do not use with a CHE why I dont know (I was going to get for a CHE till I read the box got two domes instead) 

2) slate or any flat rock yea it is to help trim nail an beak

3) I think cherry is all right for a sight block


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## mousenut (Dec 16, 2010)

1b) I don't so much mind buying another fixture but now I feel sort of stupid having a dual fixture with only one bulb in it. Not expensive enough to ship back so any suggestions as to what to put in the other half of the fixture?

2b) Great, I was hoping slate wasn't of a specific hardness or whatever


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## Yvonne G (Dec 16, 2010)

Hi Mousenut:

Welcome to the forum!! May we know your name and where you're from?

Does the light fixture you bought have a ceramic base? Then I would figure its ok to use with a CHE. If its a Bakelite base (brown plastic), then no, the CHE gets too hot for these.


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## mousenut (Dec 17, 2010)

emysemys said:


> May we know your name and where you're from?
> 
> Does the light fixture you bought have a ceramic base? Then I would figure its ok to use with a CHE. If its a Bakelite base (brown plastic), then no, the CHE gets too hot for these.



Thank you, Scott and I (we) are south of Buffalo.

I is a ceramic base but i'm debating if they are saying it's isn't designed for the CHE because it doesn't have the wire cover over the opening or it can't handle the heat.
Shown here: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B003F6XW56/?tag=exoticpetnetw-20


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## coreyc (Dec 17, 2010)

mousenut said:


> emysemys said:
> 
> 
> > May we know your name and where you're from?
> ...



I sent zoomed an email I'll let you know what they said when I hear back from them


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## coreyc (Dec 17, 2010)

I just got this E-mail back from zoomed 

Hello



Thank you for contacting us. the Mini Deep Dome fixture does not provide enough ventilation to be used with a Ceramic Heat Emitter. Heat Emitters can operate at 400 degrees or more and if that heat is not allowed to escape the dome, it can build up in the base and cause problems in the wires. Please let me know if you have any further questions.



Kind regards,



Ashley Rademacher

Customer Service

Zoo Med Labs, Inc.

3650 Sacramento Dr.

San Luis Obispo CA 93401

Toll Free 888-496-6633

Fax 805-542-9295


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## mousenut (Dec 17, 2010)

coreyc said:


> I just got this E-mail back from zoomed
> Hello
> Thank you for contacting us. the Mini Deep Dome fixture does not provide enough ventilation to be used with a Ceramic Heat Emitter. Heat Emitters can operate at 400 degrees or more and if that heat is not allowed to escape the dome, it can build up in the base and cause problems in the wires. Please let me know if you have any further questions.



Thank you for looking into that for me 

Now I'm still back to wondering what to do with the other half of the fixture...


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## mattluck3 (Dec 17, 2010)

I could be wrong here but depending on how much heat ya need doesnt reptileuv (mega ray bulb) make a low watt mega ray heat emitter that doesnt get as hot as a ceramic something like only 120 degrees to the touch. I was just looking at there website. just a thought


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## Yvonne G (Dec 17, 2010)

Or drill some holes in the "bell" to allow the build-up of heat to escape.


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## mousenut (Dec 17, 2010)

mattluck3 said:


> I could be wrong here but depending on how much heat ya need doesnt reptileuv (mega ray bulb) make a low watt mega ray heat emitter that doesnt get as hot as a ceramic something like only 120 degrees to the touch. I was just looking at there website. just a thought



Already have the 100w CHE, had that first. Could just dimming that CHE lower it's heat enough to make it safe? Where is a lawer/tortoise lover when you need one 



emysemys said:


> Or drill some holes in the "bell" to allow the build-up of heat to escape.



 I thought the same thing but didn't want to say it out loud (type it out loud)


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## mattluck3 (Dec 17, 2010)

LOL very true


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## tortoisenerd (Dec 18, 2010)

Thanks for posting this! I just bought three of these mini deep domes (with some snap on covers and lamp stands) to use for CHEs to match my large fixture for my MVB, and didn't see that note about not using them for CHEs (its not on the ZooMed or Amazon product pages). Anyone have an opinion on using 60 Watt CHEs in these mini deep domes? I assume its still bad. Any good options besides cage fixtures (I have one now and I don't like it)? Annoyed that I put so much planning into this and now I might have to change my plans (enclosure is getting done in a couple weeks).

...I like the idea of drilling holes. Seems like its only a problem using CHEs with the mini ones.


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## mousenut (Dec 19, 2010)

tortoisenerd said:


> ...I like the idea of drilling holes. Seems like its only a problem using CHEs with the mini ones.



Now that I have it set up, there already _are_ holes in it (3 big 1 small on each side of the dual). Not sure if adding more holes is the answer or not. I have a thermostat & timer coming already but I think I'm going to have to add a dimmer too to reduce the heat output.


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## Tom (Dec 19, 2010)

I always look at the actual ceramic fixture. It will usually have a wattage rating on their. Most of mine say 660 watts. If its rated for a 660 watt light bulb, I just can't imagine a 100 watt CHE causing a problem.

I've been using 100 watt CHEs in regular domed ceramic fixtures and the fixtures stay cool enough to grab with my bare hand. They are also mounted on the underside of the lid of my 4x4' lizard boxes. There is only about two inches between the ceramic of the fixture and the painted plywood surface. I watched it very carefully for several days and the wood barely even gets warm.

I can't tell you what to do, but if it were me, I'd try it out and watch it very carefully. If you see that it isn't going to work, I'd take back the "double dome" fixture and just go to Home Depot or Lowes and buy a couple of their ceramic fixtures to hang over you enclosure.


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## DeanS (Dec 19, 2010)

I NEVER buy domes from specialists...always Home Depot or Lowe's. As long as they rate a high enough wattage rating...and you can't beat the price!


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## John (Dec 19, 2010)

I'd be careful using a dimmer on a che its not a lite its a heating element,by reducing voltage u increase current draw causing a fire risk.


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## Tom (Dec 19, 2010)

I completely forgot your other two questions. Duh!

2. Slate works fine, but I prefer something that will keep the food out of the substrate a little more. Everybody has their own way, but I like to use plastic butter tub lids turned upside down. The little lip holds the food in place, for the most part, but even little babies can get over it and eat. They are also very easy to take out and wash with hot soapy water. Very easy to disinfect too. That Mazuri gets messy.

3. Cherrywood should be fine for your purposes.


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## Edna (Dec 19, 2010)

tortoisenerd said:


> Thanks for posting this! I just bought three of these mini deep domes (with some snap on covers and lamp stands) to use for CHEs to match my large fixture for my MVB, and didn't see that note about not using them for CHEs (its not on the ZooMed or Amazon product pages). Anyone have an opinion on using 60 Watt CHEs in these mini deep domes? I assume its still bad. Any good options besides cage fixtures (I have one now and I don't like it)? Annoyed that I put so much planning into this and now I might have to change my plans (enclosure is getting done in a couple weeks).
> 
> ...I like the idea of drilling holes. Seems like its only a problem using CHEs with the mini ones.





I've been using a 60 watt CHE in a mini deep dome for a couple of months now, and have not had any trouble with it. It gets hot to the touch, but I have temp-gunned it before and didn't find the reading to be unusually hot. I use it at night, when my MVB is off, but am heating it up right now so I can get a reading for you. OK, 145 degrees on the bell, compared to 165 on the bell of the big deep dome with the MVB in it.


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## mousenut (Dec 19, 2010)

TortyQueen said:


> I've been using a 60 watt CHE in a mini deep dome for a couple of months now, and have not had any trouble with it. It gets hot to the touch, but I have temp-gunned it before and didn't find the reading to be unusually hot. I use it at night, when my MVB is off, but am heating it up right now so I can get a reading for you. OK, 145 degrees on the bell, compared to 165 on the bell of the big deep dome with the MVB in it.



I have a heat gun on it's way and I will do the same before I really fire it up for real.

Can someone else chime in on the dimming issue with a CHE? My thought was 100 watts is 100 watts and a CHE is essentialy an incandecant source just like a lightbulb just with the element burried in ceramics. Dimming with a 300 watt rated dimmer should be no sweat...yes or no?

I might be able to take pics later on today. Mixing dirt and washing rocks etc. right now.





Tom said:


> I completely forgot your other two questions. Duh!
> 
> 2. Slate works fine, but I prefer something that will keep the food out of the substrate a little more. Everybody has their own way, but I like to use plastic butter tub lids turned upside down. The little lip holds the food in place, for the most part, but even little babies can get over it and eat. They are also very easy to take out and wash with hot soapy water. Very easy to disinfect too. That Mazuri gets messy.
> 
> 3. Cherrywood should be fine for your purposes.



Duh! 

I didn't have slate which is why I asked the original question of varied rocks & tiles working out well for a wear surface. We (my wife with me watching=we) are gardeners all summer so we started a sprout/small pot rotation & planting array in our basement to hopefully allow us to have constant real edible plants burried in the substrate all the time. We are on our third planting already and he's not even here yet 

The surface question was mostly for suplimental feedings or if (when) he catches up to us before we can fire up the greenhouse again in spring.


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## tortoisenerd (Dec 19, 2010)

I don't know about dimmers with CHEs except that with a Google search, I see tons of people that use them, and actually highly recommend you use a CHE with a dimmer (personally, I don't want to have to use a dimmer because if the dimmer failed then it would be too warm....I just adjust the bulb height as needed and measure temps regularly to ensure its what I intend). I do know you can't use dimmers on MVBs. For example, here's a thread: http://www.tortoiseforum.org/Thread-what-watt-ceramic-heat-emitter

Thanks for the info Edna on your use of a 60 Watt CHE with the mini deep dome! 

Tom & Dean- apparently the issue isn't the wattage rating (ZooMed mini deep dome is ceramic socket and quotes 100 Watts max), but that the fixture is very narrow diameter (5.5 inches) and deep, so that the heat from a CHE apparently can't escape like it could with a typical wider diameter or less deep fixture. I imagine the manufacturer is erring on the side of caution with the warning, but heat traveling back into the cord and causing a fire is something we don't want to risk, as our setups already have some inherent risk (hot lights & flammable substrate & enclosures areas which animals can't escape). I'll have to go down to the garage and look at the box to see if it actually says that about not using a CHE (ZooMed's product web page didn't...neither did Amazon where I bought them...only seen it at Petco so far).

2. Any hard stone is good. Slate looks nicer (more natural) than ceramic tile, although both are easily available individually at home improvement stores. Most owners find that just by feeding on a hard surface, it will eliminate the need to trim the beak or nails as they will wear down naturally as they would in the wild. I find a tile much larger than the tort in a corner does pretty well, although torts love to track food (mind does it by walking on top of the food so it drags under him). A 12 inch tile will work great for a hatchling or juvenile Russian, although at over 4 inches my tort is starting to outgrow his. You want something much larger than the food pile and the tort, and something the tort doesn't have to climb up to (some people use tiny dishes with huge lips).

3. Any wood should be fine except cedar. Even pine boards are fine to use in an enclosure (but not substrate). Are you making a maze of sorts for sight barriers? Very cool, although I prefer fake plants. Cherry would look nice.


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## mousenut (Dec 19, 2010)

Well, I'll never clean rocks in the kitchen sink again...

I desperatly need to spell- check before hitting post


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## mousenut (Dec 20, 2010)

*pics*

Pics, more plants will be added in a couple days


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## coreyc (Dec 20, 2010)

Looks good what did you end up putting in the other side of the fixture?


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## Yvonne G (Dec 20, 2010)

I have never seen that double bell fixture before. How strange that "they" would make something like that...something that the customer would WANT to put a light AND a CHE into, then tell you it can't handle a CHE. However, it would be great for a MVB and a black/red bulb. The only problem I see with the fixture is I want my MVB at one end, and my black light at the other end. The tortoises usually sleep away from the lighted end (here at my house), so I want my night bulb at the other end of the habitat.

I really like how inventive you were with your habitat. It looks great. I've been trying to figure out what the other side of the ramp looks like. Do you think a baby would fall off upside down?

Very nice.


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## Edna (Dec 20, 2010)

Nice enclosure! I really like your cave/hide. How will you keep that end of the enclosure warm?


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## mousenut (Dec 20, 2010)

TortyQueen said:


> Nice enclosure! I really like your cave/hide. How will you keep that end of the enclosure warm?



I have a server right near that corner and that room stays 70ish so heating isn't too much of an issue. I may still be getting a second fixture for the CHE anyway depending on the temp test results that I have yet to perform (still waiting on the laser therm).



> Do you think a baby would fall off upside down?



Yes, I am worried a little about that but he should fall away from the MVB so at least I'd be covered in that case.

I can re-arrange about 4 or 5 different ways and there are 2 x 6" substrate pits for decent digging and planting.

Here is something everyone forgets to add to their tortoise shopping list...._hand lotion_. May hands are chapped like sandpaper!


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## mousenut (Jan 3, 2011)

A quick update, I can give a more detailed update later on with actual temps etc.

I checked the temps of the ceramic bases with the MVB on for about 4 hours and the CHE on a dimmer (always on) but with the dimmer turned all the way up and the MVB side was hotter than the CHE side so a big Family Feud "X" to that whole issue as far as _I_ am concerned...

"Bubbles" (Bub) is a little cutie and doing really well


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## tortoisenerd (Jan 12, 2011)

Hmmm. The way I have my 2 ZooMed Mini Deep Dome fixtures with 60 Watt ZooMed ceramic heat emitters set up (about 65 F room temp), they gave about the same 140/150 F max bell temperature with PE1 temp gun as my ZooMed Deep Dome fixture with a 100 Watt T-Rex Active UV Heat bulb in it. Because of that, I haven't been worried about the setup, despite what the box and manufacturer e-mail said (but I wouldn't put any higher wattage heat emitter in there!). How much hotter are we talking about? I guess different bulbs (even if they are 100 Watt MVB & 60 Watt CHE) could yield different results as there are many variables...even if they are the same brands (likely not), just bulb vs. bulb probably varies.


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## mousenut (Jan 18, 2011)

The problem I'm having with reporting the actual temps is catching it while it is on again all day and remembering to measure it properly. The tops of the ceramic fixture base are different from the edge closer to the bell which is different from the center. The bell itself varies greatly from the lip to the curve to the top.

Either way, the CHE side is still slightly cooler than the bulb side that it's actualy rated for so...

I'm still planning on giving actual readings as soon as I can though, sorry for the delay.


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