# People medicine for torts



## Squidget (Feb 3, 2012)

ok i read that for dry eyes i can use cod liver oil and unmedicated eyedrops in addition to uping the humidity. my poor new little guy scratches his eyes alot when he first wakes up and seems like he cant open them for a few min after waking. i couldnt find cod liver oil so i got fish oil, can i use this? the website said i can poke a hole in the gel capsule with a needle and put a drop on his eyes...but again is cod liver oil the same as fish oil and if not can i use it anyway? also it said the eyedrops work well too, so i got some regular eye drops...some genaric kind because they were all out of the name brand...the active ingreients are polyvinyl alcohol 0.5%, and povidone 0.6%. the fish oils ingredients are fish oil 1000mg, EPA, DHA, and total omega 3 fatty acids 300mg...will either or both of these work for my poor little guys eyes? my vet is on vacation for the week and i just got him yesterday so i have to wait til next week for his first check up, so i need something to sooth his little eyes for now.


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## lynnedit (Feb 3, 2012)

Those regular eye drops that you mention sound like they are for infection, etc. Not sure about the value fish oil caps, etc. (I believe the cod liver oil idea arose when torts had vitamin A deficiencies causing eye problems, which is unusual these days).
It seems better to look for the cause. It really does sound like your substrate may be dry. What kind are you using?
How is your humidity? Do you have a humid hide he can retreat to? Are you spraying the substrate?
I think a good soak and then plain saline drops would be best. (you can use human saline drops on torts). 
Meanwhile working on your humidity will help in the future.

Go Steelers! (sorry, had to work that in).


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## Squidget (Feb 3, 2012)

lynnedit said:


> Those regular eye drops that you mention do not sound soothing to the eye. I would avoid them. Not sure about the fish oil caps, etc.
> It really does sound like your substrate may be dry, at least in the lower layers. What kind are you using?
> How is your humidity? Do you have a humid hide he can retreat to? Are you spraying the substrate?
> I think a good soak and then plain saline drops would be best. (you can use human saline drops on torts).
> ...



I have been keeping the substrate kinda wet but not soaking and f I dig down a little it's still pretty wet there. I do have a moist hide and I have been soaking him every morning. I do have some saline laying around I will try that in the morning. Oh and my substrate is a soil sand mixture. I think I may mix some bed a beast in it though just for extra moisture retention. And heck yes go steelers haha. It's weird I'm so used to seeing them in the super bowl these past few years that Sunday is going to be a bummer haha. Oh also the eyes drops do say they are for dry eyes and are "lubricant eye drops"


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## dmmj (Feb 3, 2012)

I would try and solve the reason why his eyes are itching. As for cod live oil I have never used it, personally I would use saline solution before any type of fish oil in the eyes.


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## Squidget (Feb 3, 2012)

dmmj said:


> I would try and solve the reason why his eyes are itching. As for cod live oil I have never used it, personally I would use saline solution before any type of fish oil in the eyes.



Honestly, and I hate saying this because he is such a nice guy, I think the breeder may have kept his enclosure too dry because he was rubbing his eyes as soon as I opened te shipping box although maybe the dry paper towel in there may have helped to dehydrate him?. Although I did notice him doing it less today and he was also much more active but I'm assuming he was tired after that long stressful time he spent in that little box. I'm going to try the saline solution in the morning and hopefully that plus he increased humidity(which I think is the problem) will help. He has no other visable problems and is eating and pooping fine and bumbles to and fro all over the tort table. But he will be fecal tested and checked all over by my vet beginning of next week. Who takes a vacation in February anyway lol apparently my vet does lol.


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## dmmj (Feb 3, 2012)

From your description it sounds like some type of irritant. Have you tried misting him?


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## Squidget (Feb 3, 2012)

dmmj said:


> From your description it sounds like some type of irritant. Have you tried misting him?



Yeppers I sure have. He has been misted and soaked and he even will pull his head under watch and rub his eyes while soaking.


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## lynnedit (Feb 3, 2012)

The lubricant drops are like human artificial tears. They often have glycerin, etc. They might be OK, but I see people using plain Saline eye drops instead with torts, so go with those.
http://www.walgreens.com/store/c/walgreens-sterile-saline-solution-2-pack/ID=prod6003832-product
I have seen people mention that some torts seem very sensitive to sand in the substrate mix, although it can be recommended. It seems to irritate some torts' eyes. I just don't use it.
Why don't you change the substrate to plain organic topsoil , or topsoil mixed with coir, and see how he does? Misted down daily? Perhaps even a piece of plexiglass or wire with plastic sheeting over part of the enclosure to help hold moisture in?
I bet it will make a difference.

*whispers: superbowl will NOT be the same*


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## Squidget (Feb 3, 2012)

I'm not sure if it is the sand that's doing it because he came to me with this problem. But also with my mixture it is mainly topsoil with maybe 10% sand. I think I will.l change it anyway as it seems it will be easier in the long run to deal with. Is coir the same as bed a beast. The coconut bedding? I Actually use that in my box turtles set up and I have a hard time keeping the top layer wet from the heat and then it is very loose and seems like it would be more likely to irritate his eyes...so if I mix that and topsoil would that help it stay a little firmer instead of turning to an almost sawdust texture in an hour or so?


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## lynnedit (Feb 3, 2012)

Here is a nice thread about raising young Sulcatas, but should apply as long as they are small enough to stay inside.
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/Thread-How-To-Raise-Sulcata-Hatchlings-and-Babies#axzz1lNx5WR5y
Maybe just use a good organic topsoil at this point. Coir + topsoil is a nice mix (but yes, Coir are the bricks or can be sold loose, same as bed a beast, but it is very fine, not hard like sand. It does need a lot of water to stay moist; you can actually pour it in and stir it up).
Since your guy was that way when you got him, sounds like you are just trying to fix it. Might as well eliminate the sand, keep soaking, work on increasing humidity and irrigate with the saline to start.
Hope he gets better!


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## Squidget (Feb 3, 2012)

Ok thank you I will try switching his 'strate and see if it helps. And I will do the saline right before his soak in the morning. He did seem better today so hopefully im catching it in time to fix it before he rubs his eyeballs out lol. thanks again for your help!! I'm so worried about this little guy because he is so small lol 4 inches looks a lot bigger in pics then in real life lol. Also off topic but at what age are they not considered hatchlings anymore? He is almost five months old from what I was told. 

Oh I also forgot this is debatable too. I was looking for some grass seed today to start I little bit growing in my windows. But they didn't have the big bags (too early in the season I guess) but they did have little packets like the ones flowers and veggies come in. I got blue fesque and "cat" grass (not catnip) can he eat these. I know I've seen something about them eating fesque but not what color it was. And I have no idea what kind cat grass is but I figured hey for a buck if he can't have it I'll give it to my neighbors cat lol.


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## lynnedit (Feb 3, 2012)

Hope he does OK! Keep us posted. 
Check the Sulcata section of this forum for more specifics about hatchling vs subadult, also the link I mentioned above.

I believe fescues are fine! Not sure what the cat grass is, but I would bet it is OK too.
Here is a nice general reference for plants (lawn grasses are not on it, from UK so some of the names are different).
http://www.thetortoisetable.org.uk/site/plants_19.asp

There are some nice sites to buy Sulcata seed mixes: 
http://www.arizonatortoisecompound.com/Tortoise-Seed-Mixes/ (member of our forum)
http://www.sulcatafood.com/Store.html


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## zesty_17 (Feb 5, 2012)

I second the saline based eye drops, or just plain distilled water. The eye drops for people that "get the red out" or have other active ingredients are vasoconstrictors that literally cause the blood vessels in the eye to constrict. Once in a while it is ok for people, but over time it can also cause harm, even for people.


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