# Tortoise Trust



## -EJ (Mar 16, 2009)

Some of you might see this as trolling... that's not the intent. I don't have too many forums where I can ask this and I know many of you are members. Internet searches are not yielding too much information.

My question is... what is a trust as it pertains to the TT? Is there a governing body? Is it regulated by the UK government? 

I know it is a privately owned 'organization'?

I'm asking because I'm curious. This has to do with some other questions. 
__________________


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## Oogie (Mar 16, 2009)

The usage of "trust" probably pertains to the definition "n-3. Something committed into the care of another" (Answer.com) Obviously, they are committed to the care and advancement of chelonians.

I believe it is just part of the name and nothing more. Considering the amount of work TT has done for chelonians, based on their own website re: their participation in the advancement of chelonian life...I would "assume" there is a governing body within TT. I kinda doubt it would be regulated by the UK government or even need to be (other than if it was an established non-profit society...but I don't know how that works in the UK).

I'm actually interested in others' input here...HINT HINT LOL


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## -EJ (Mar 16, 2009)

I've been of the opinion that it is a fantastic business. A brilliant form and use of marketing. I'm trying to figure if it is a business or a conservation organization. I'm curious as to where the money goes. If it's a business I would think it should be labled as such. If it is a conservation organization... I would think the books should be open to public review.

Then there is the Jill Martin Foundation... I believe it is listed as a nonprofit entity. These financial records should definately be public domain. I can't seem to find any records... which is the reason for these posts.



Oogie said:


> The usage of "trust" probably pertains to the definition "n-3. Something committed into the care of another" (Answer.com) Obviously, they are committed to the care and advancement of chelonians.
> 
> I believe it is just part of the name and nothing more. Considering the amount of work TT has done for chelonians, based on their own website re: their participation in the advancement of chelonian life...I would "assume" there is a governing body within TT. I kinda doubt it would be regulated by the UK government or even need to be (other than if it was an established non-profit society...but I don't know how that works in the UK).
> 
> I'm actually interested in others' input here...HINT HINT LOL


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## Laura (Mar 16, 2009)

I think we should all have one.. what will happen to your torts when you go.. but that is different.. can you ask the board or a member? THier website should say something.. here its a 501.3 for non profit.. not sure what it is there...differnt country different laws. 
Are you wanting to donate or start your own similar org?


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## -EJ (Mar 16, 2009)

The TT is not non profit. The Jill Martin Foundation is supposed to be. Can't find a record of it. That does not mean it does not exist.

Honestly... I'm questioning the validity of the 'organization'. I see a great deal of PR with not much backing for that PR.





Laura said:


> I think we should all have one.. what will happen to your torts when you go.. but that is different.. can you ask the board or a member? THier website should say something.. here its a 501.3 for non profit.. not sure what it is there...differnt country different laws.
> Are you wanting to donate or start your own similar org?


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## Oogie (Mar 16, 2009)

interesting observations...update us if you find out anything!

re: The Jill Martin Foundation...did you contact them directly about financial records or contact the organization in charge of non-profit organizations. Even though their financials should be public record doesn't necessarily mean you'll find the info on the Internet.


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## -EJ (Mar 16, 2009)

You can pretty much count on it...

What got me going on this is an encounter on a list I was recently banned from. Someone was obviously pulling the strings.

A person posted a very discriptive picture of a tortoise that was 95% dead. There was a slim chance it could be saved. The TT took it in to save it... a very noble thing. What bothered me was that funds were solicited to help save the tortoise in the name of the Jill Martin Foundation. Any experienced tortoise keep would know the tortoise was most likely going to die... this got me thinking on the levels that I previously described. 



Oogie said:


> interesting observations...update us if you find out anything!
> 
> re: The Jill Martin Foundation...did you contact them directly about financial records or contact the organization in charge of non-profit organizations. Even though their financials should be public record doesn't necessarily mean you'll find the info on the Internet.


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## Yvonne G (Mar 16, 2009)

That's interesting because the WCT split off from the TT and WCT IS non-profit. (if memory is serving correctly!)

Yvonne


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## egyptiandan (Mar 16, 2009)

Here you go Ed  It seems to be registered as a charity in the UK. http://www.charity-commission.gov.u...teredCharityNumber=1123430&SubsidiaryNumber=0

They don't seem to need to file a return yet of their activities.

Danny


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## -EJ (Mar 16, 2009)

That's a whole nuther story. For history sake the TT is a splinter of the BCG.



emysemys said:


> That's interesting because the WCT split off from the TT and WCT IS non-profit. (if memory is serving correctly!)
> 
> Yvonne




Why thank you Danny... for doing the leg work... seriously and not.

I'll be willing to bet it raised some questions with you when you found that.

I know I have some questions... although... I found that you can regester a non profit organization for a little over $400.

This is getting interesting.




egyptiandan said:


> Here you go Ed  It seems to be registered as a charity in the UK. http://www.charity-commission.gov.u...teredCharityNumber=1123430&SubsidiaryNumber=0
> 
> They don't seem to need to file a return yet of their activities.
> 
> Danny


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## egyptiandan (Mar 16, 2009)

Just found that they don't have to disclose their finances unless they receive 500,000 pounds or more in a year. Seems like it's going to be hard to find out their finances as they don't have to tell the public.

Just sounds like an easy way to not pay taxes on monies received.

Yup it keeps getting better and better 

Danny


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## Jentortmom (Mar 18, 2009)

Ed, I found this search engine on the irs website. I searched for tortoise trust and it came up with nothing. http://www.irs.gov/charities/article/0,,id=96136,00.html I don't know if it will help you or not.


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## egyptiandan (Mar 19, 2009)

The Tortoise Trust is based in the UK Jen, so it's not likely to come up on an IRS database.

Danny


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## Yvonne G (Mar 19, 2009)

So you're saying they show a picture of a very ill tortoise and request donations, knowing the tortoise is going to die and they are going to make some money off it?

Hey...I got some pictures!

Yvonne


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## -EJ (Mar 19, 2009)

I'm not saying that at all. It was one incident... where they offered to save a tortoise that in all likelyhood was going to die and then they asked for donations to help with the vet bills. I thought this was not only odd... but wrong... an opinion... nothing more.

I really need to start an organization to save the tortoises... Working totally sucks.

To put this whole thing in perspective... the chelonian keeper should do a little research beyond what is presented to them. It blows my mind how much is accepted on blind faith.

Another point... taking information out of context can be slanted in any direction needed. I've seen this too much lately where individuals and various orgaizations have been targeted... it's a pretty nasty and petty thing... actually... kind of counter productive when it comes to conservation and the care of chelonians.





emysemys said:


> So you're saying they show a picture of a very ill tortoise and request donations, knowing the tortoise is going to die and they are going to make some money off it?
> 
> Hey...I got some pictures!
> 
> Yvonne


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