# Tort Keeps Flipping On His Back - Please Help!



## Gillian M (May 15, 2016)

Hi everyone. Need *HELP*. I recently had a new enclosure built for Oli, and I have a feeling that something is wrong. He roams around the enclosure, and each and every time he goes to the same corner, tries to get out, after which he *flips on his back*! The issue is worrying me: can't move anywhere, unless there's an emergency!

I do know that torts take time to adapt to anything new, but he never did something of the sort, not even when literally everything was new to him about five years ago. 

The enclosure is a relatively big one and much bigger than his old one. Therefore I am sure it is not the size.


Anyone's *quick *advise/help would be highly appreciated.

Thank you.


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## JoesMum (May 15, 2016)

Some careful moving of tank decor to block that corner will probably help. 

Maybe some plants?


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## Gillian M (May 15, 2016)

JoesMum said:


> Some careful moving of tank decor to block that corner will probably help.
> 
> Maybe some plants?


Thanks so much your help.

What can I block the corner with? Please excuse my ignorance here.


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## Gillian M (May 15, 2016)

JoesMum said:


> Some careful moving of tank decor to block that corner will probably help.
> 
> Maybe some plants?


Thanks so much your help.

What can I block the corner with? Please excuse my ignorance here.


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## JoesMum (May 15, 2016)

I would get some plants in the corner


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## adptorts (May 15, 2016)

Is it a glass tank? Your tortoise might be trying to walk through it and any site barrier could help.


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## SarahChelonoidis (May 15, 2016)

Is this enclosure built out of different material than before? 

Some sort of plant or hide that isn't climbable would be my suggestion.


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## Yvonne G (May 15, 2016)

Hi Gillian:

So sorry that Ollie isn't happy in his new spot. This is quite normal. Tortoises get used to their territory and are pretty upset when you move them. He's trying to get out so he can find his way back to his old, safe home. It will take time for him to settle down. In the meantime, block that corner with a big rock or a plant or maybe even put his hiding place in that corner.


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## ZEROPILOT (May 15, 2016)

Gillian. Is it a wooden enclosure?
Can you place something in the corners to round them off? This way he might pace the enclosure, but not stop and try to climb out.


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## Gillian M (May 15, 2016)

JoesMum said:


> I would get some plants in the corner


Fair enough. And thanks once again your help.


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## Gillian M (May 15, 2016)

ZEROPILOT said:


> Gillian. Is it a wooden enclosure?
> Can you place something in the corners to round them off? This way he might pace the enclosure, but not stop and try to climb out.


Oh no, Ed it is a wooden enclosure, I'd NEVER even think of an enclosure made of glass.

Thanks your advise, Ed.


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## Gillian M (May 15, 2016)

Here's a pic of the new enclosure. Sorry....*ED* told you I am NO photographer.


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## Gillian M (May 15, 2016)

Yvonne G said:


> Hi Gillian:
> 
> So sorry that Ollie isn't happy in his new spot. This is quite normal. Tortoises get used to their territory and are pretty upset when you move them. He's trying to get out so he can find his way back to his old, safe home. It will take time for him to settle down. In the meantime, block that corner with a big rock or a plant or maybe even put his hiding place in that corner.


Thanks Yvonne. OK, I did expect it, as we all know torts don't like anything new, don't like change and take time to adapt to it.However, I didn't expect him to keep flipping on his back every five minutes or so. 

I have a rock and thought of placing it in that awkward corner. But at the same time I thought: "What if he climbs on the rock and keeps flipping on his back?"

Tell me please, what do you think of the enclosure?


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## Gillian M (May 15, 2016)

SarahChelonoidis said:


> Is this enclosure built out of different material than before?
> 
> Some sort of plant or hide that isn't climbable would be my suggestion.


It is a wooden enclosure. (Please see pic). Nothing new, except the size. This one is a larger one which I thought he'd like.

Thanks your help.


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## Gillian M (May 15, 2016)

adptorts said:


> Is it a glass tank? Your tortoise might be trying to walk through it and any site barrier could help.


It is a wooden enclosure.


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## ZEROPILOT (May 16, 2016)

It has eight corners. That's a lot of corners to climb.
I like the window and grass paintings.
As big as it is, I just think that it's too small compared to what Oli is used to. (At this point he is used to free roaming.)
Hopefully he will settle down. But Oli seeks to be on the stubborn side.


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## Gillian M (May 16, 2016)

ZEROPILOT said:


> It has eight corners. That's a lot of corners to climb.
> I like the window and grass paintings.
> As big as it is, I just think that it's too small compared to what Oli is used to. (At this point he is used to free roaming.)
> Hopefully he will settle down. But Oli seeks to be on the stubborn side.


Oh you bet OLI is stubborn. When I used to allow him to roam around the flat, he used to want to go into my bedroom and only my bedroom. I tried training him not to, but NO WAY. Therefore I used to have to close the door.

Glad you like the paintings.


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## Gillian M (May 18, 2016)

Hi everyone Need help: OLI is *still *flipping on his back in his new enclosure. I placed a rock and some plants, as was advised by members at the forum, but neither the rock nor the plants solved the issue. OLI is now climbing on the rock to try to get out, and flipping on his back!

What else could I do? The matter is worrying me.

Anyone's help/advise would be highly appreciated. Thanks very much.


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## JoesMum (May 18, 2016)

Take the rock out and just try plants?

Get a bigger enclosure?


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## JoesMum (May 18, 2016)

Also try a complete reorganisation of the enclosure layout.

Maybe add lots more plants, so it is harder work to get to a corner and he might decide to stop and eat on the way.


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## Gillian M (May 18, 2016)

JoesMum said:


> Take the rock out and just try plants?
> 
> Get a bigger enclosure?


Thanks so much your quick reply as well as your help.

1) OLI has started flipping on his back before I put the rock into the enclosure.

2) As for a bigger enclosure, well, frankly speaking I cannot afford it: here I mean both financially as well as space-wise. I live in a relatively small flat.


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## Gillian M (May 18, 2016)

JoesMum said:


> Also try a complete reorganisation of the enclosure layout.
> 
> Maybe add lots more plants, so it is harder work to get to a corner and he might decide to stop and eat on the way.


I am planning to get more plants. I'll see how I can re-organize the enclosure.

Many thanks your help!


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## JoesMum (May 18, 2016)

Gillian Moore said:


> Thanks so much your quick reply as well as your help.
> 
> 1) OLI has started flipping on his back before I put the rock into the enclosure.
> 
> 2) As for a bigger enclosure, well, frankly speaking I cannot afford it: here I mean both financially as well as space-wise. I live in a relatively small flat.


Gillian, I cannot remember how big your enclosure is, but if Oli has outgrown it then no amount of reorganisation and planting will solve the problem. I understand that you have limited room in your apartment, but there are certain things that you have to provide Oli for him to be healthy and unstressed.


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## Gillian M (May 18, 2016)

JoesMum said:


> Gillian, I cannot remember how big your enclosure is, but if Oli has outgrown it then no amount of reorganisation and planting will solve the problem. I understand that you have limited room in your apartment, but there are certain things that you have to provide Oli for him to be healthy and unstressed.






Here's a pic of the enclosure *before* I had placed the rock and the plants. I do not think that OLI has outgrown it (no offence, ok?) He lived in a much smaller one and things were "fine" so as to speak. 
Thanks so much your help, which I really do appreciate.


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## Gillian M (May 18, 2016)

JoesMum said:


> Gillian, I cannot remember how big your enclosure is, but if Oli has outgrown it then no amount of reorganisation and planting will solve the problem. I understand that you have limited room in your apartment, but there are certain things that you have to provide Oli for him to be healthy and unstressed.



View attachment 173905


Here's a pic of the enclosure *before* I had placed the rock and the plants. I do not think that OLI has outgrown it (no offence, ok?) He lived in a much smaller one and things were "fine" so as to speak. 
Thanks so much your help, which I really do appreciate.


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## Gillian M (May 18, 2016)

Apologies for having posted the same message twice.


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## JoesMum (May 18, 2016)

Gillian Moore said:


> View attachment 173905
> 
> 
> Here's a pic of the enclosure *before* I had placed the rock and the plants. I do not think that OLI has outgrown it (no offence, ok?) He lived in a much smaller one and things were "fine" so as to speak.
> Thanks so much your help, which I really do appreciate.


You may not think so, but Oli does and so do I. I am sorry that you cannot agree with me.


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## Gillian M (May 18, 2016)

By the way, I just saw a video on YouTube whereas the owner of a tort places his tort on her back and says: "Watch this. The tort will eventually manage to go back to its normal position." And she did, though the poor thing struggled like mad!

Does anyone think that one can rely on this? With all my respect to the gentleman in the video, I could never take such a risk.


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## JoesMum (May 18, 2016)

Gillian Moore said:


> By the way, I just saw a video on YouTube whereas the owner of a tort places his tort on her back and says: "Watch this. The tort will eventually manage to go back to its normal position." And she did, though the poor thing struggled like mad!
> 
> Does anyone think that one can rely on this? With all my respect to the gentleman in the video, I could never take such a risk.


Tortoises in the wild have to learn to flip back. If they don't they die. 

Some never seem to master it. It is better to avoid the tortoise flipping in the first place. That way you know it won't come to any harm. You cannot rely on them to flip back.


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## Gillian M (May 18, 2016)

JoesMum said:


> You may not think so, but Oli does and so do I. I am sorry that you cannot agree with me.


No need to apologize, dear. You have been of *great* help! And this is *NOT* mathematics where 1+1=2. There have to be different opinions, different points of view, and sorry to say this: some guess work. Don't mean you here, just talking in general, so please do not take it personal.


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## Gillian M (May 18, 2016)

JoesMum said:


> Tortoises in the wild have to learn to flip back. If they don't they die.
> 
> Some never seem to master it. It is better to avoid the tortoise flipping in the first place. That way you know it won't come to any harm. You cannot rely on them to flip back.


That is exactly what I meant: how on earth could you guarantee that your tort would go back to its normal position? And let's suppose he/she does not.


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## TortoiseWarrior (May 18, 2016)

Can we see some pictures of oli?


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## Gillian M (May 18, 2016)

TortoiseWarrior said:


> Can we see some pictures of oli?


Sure. But please give me time to take them. Alright?


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## Gillian M (May 18, 2016)

JoesMum said:


> Gillian, I cannot remember how big your enclosure is, but if Oli has outgrown it then no amount of reorganisation and planting will solve the problem. I understand that you have limited room in your apartment, but there are certain things that you have to provide Oli for him to be healthy and unstressed.


Am now wondering: "Why did OLI not behave like this when his enclosure was MUCH MUCH smaller? Even if he's grown, I can tell you one thing: he has definitely not become huge.


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## JoesMum (May 18, 2016)

Gillian Moore said:


> Am now wondering: "Why did OLI not behave like this when his enclosure was MUCH MUCH smaller? Even if he's grown, I can tell you one thing: he has definitely not become huge.


Because you changed things. Tortoises don't handle change well. 

It may be that he doesn't feel safe now and he is trying to get out to find cover.

It may be that having a little more space has made him realise there's a much bigger world to explore and he wants even more.

We can't know for certain what he is thinking. What we do know is that they need plenty of space to be healthy and they like lots of places to hide away. Adding lots of plants for him to browse on and hide under may fix the problem in the shorter term, but Oli will definitely need more space in the longer term.


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## Yvonne G (May 18, 2016)

Tortoises don't handle change well. Let's just hope that he'll eventually settle down and behave himself.


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## Rue (May 18, 2016)

You could flip Oli and watch how he rights himself...that might give you some peace of mind - knowing that he can.


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## SarahChelonoidis (May 18, 2016)

Rue said:


> You could flip Oli and watch how he rights himself...that might give you some peace of mind - knowing that he can.



I don't think this is going to be that helpful - their ability to right themselves is partly determined by where they flip and how tired they are already. One successful righting isn't going to mean much (beyond a stressed tortoise).


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## Linhdan Nguyen (May 18, 2016)

I flipped both of my tortoises yesterday, ONLY TO SEE IF THEY COULD FLIP THEMSELVES OVER AGAIN! And they did it within the minute. From what I saw is they "scoot" themselves to something that they can use to push themselves up against. It was interesting. And my weaker tortoise actually did it much quicker than the stronger one. I was surprised.


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## WithLisa (May 18, 2016)

Gillian, your flat doesn't look small to me, I can see lots of room for enlargement around the enclosure. 



Gillian Moore said:


> By the way, I just saw a video on YouTube whereas the owner of a tort places his tort on her back and says: "Watch this. The tort will eventually manage to go back to its normal position." And she did, though the poor thing struggled like mad!
> 
> Does anyone think that one can rely on this? With all my respect to the gentleman in the video, I could never take such a risk.


They definitely can right themselves if they are in a suitable environment with firm soil full of roots and plants.
My torts flip at least three times a day and I've never even thought about helping them - it only takes them a few seconds to get back on their legs. The only dangerous spots could be for example slippery water bowls.


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## Rue (May 18, 2016)

SarahChelonoidis said:


> I don't think this is going to be that helpful - their ability to right themselves is partly determined by where they flip and how tired they are already. One successful righting isn't going to mean much (beyond a stressed tortoise).



I'm quite aware of that. But at least if you witness it - you will know your tortoise can. That is good to know. I wouldn't be too concerned about the stress level doing it once - as long you're not flipping him for fun on a regular basis.

And...as Linhdan and WithLisa pointed out...they right themselves regardless. It might also point out some trouble spots in the enclosure where it may become difficult to right themselves that maybe can be addressed.


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## Yvonne G (May 18, 2016)

Rue said:


> I'm quite aware of that. But at least if you witness it - you will know your tortoise can. That is good to know. I wouldn't be too concerned about the stress level doing it once - as long you're not flipping him for fun on a regular basis.
> 
> And...as Linhdan and WithLisa pointed out...they right themselves regardless. It might also point out some trouble spots in the enclosure where it may become difficult to right themselves that maybe can be addressed.



I don't know about that. I've buried a few dead turtles and tortoises that I found laying on their back.


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## ZEROPILOT (May 18, 2016)

Yvonne G said:


> I don't know about that. I've buried a few dead turtles and tortoises that I found laying on their back.


Me too. One anyway.


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## Rue (May 18, 2016)

And what's the solution? Don't bother to find out? Have a camera on them 24/7?

What were the circumstances where you found the dead animals? Was there some way to prevent that from happening? Would it have helped if you had checked for that possibility ahead of time?


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## Yvonne G (May 18, 2016)

Rue said:


> And what's the solution? Don't bother to find out? Have a camera on them 24/7?
> 
> What were the circumstances where you found the dead animals? Was there some way to prevent that from happening? Would it have helped if you had checked for that possibility ahead of time?



I have large outdoor yards for my turtles and tortoises. Unless I spend my whole day moving from one yard to another there's no way I could keep an eye on all of them. I came home after a 5 day hospital stay to find one of my 45lb Manouria tortoises dead on her back.

Unless you have the time to sit and watch your animal/animals all day long, you are going to have accidents. The best thing to do is to try your best to make the habitat a little more easy for the animal to right itself. A very soft substrate sometimes helps. Non-climb hiding places helps. Rounding the corners so they stop trying to climb in the corners sometimes helps.


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## Gillian M (May 18, 2016)

Rue said:


> And what's the solution? Don't bother to find out? Have a camera on them 24/7?
> 
> What were the circumstances where you found the dead animals? Was there some way to prevent that from happening? Would it have helped if you had checked for that possibility ahead of time?


GOD only knows what the solution is. The issue is keeping me wide awake all night long, and even when OLI himself is in deep sleep.


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## Gillian M (May 18, 2016)

Yvonne G said:


> I have large outdoor yards for my turtles and tortoises. Unless I spend my whole day moving from one yard to another there's no way I could keep an eye on all of them. I came home after a 5 day hospital stay to find one of my 45lb Manouria tortoises dead on her back.
> 
> Unless you have the time to sit and watch your animal/animals all day long, you are going to have accidents. The best thing to do is to try your best to make the habitat a little more easy for the animal to right itself. A very soft substrate sometimes helps. Non-climb hiding places helps. Rounding the corners so they stop trying to climb in the corners sometimes helps.


Yvonne, please do not misunderstand me here: you were the one who advised me to put a rock/brick in the enclosure. I hadn't planned to. I do NOT mean to offend/upset you ok?


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## Gillian M (May 18, 2016)

JoesMum said:


> Because you changed things. Tortoises don't handle change well.
> 
> It may be that he doesn't feel safe now and he is trying to get out to find cover.
> 
> ...


OK, here you and I agree: torts do not like change, but I repeat: OLI *NEVER* behaved in such a strange way when he was in a much smaller enclosure, even if he too was smaller.


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## Gillian M (May 18, 2016)

WithLisa said:


> Gillian, your flat doesn't look small to me, I can see lots of room for enlargement around the enclosure.
> 
> 
> They definitely can right themselves if they are in a suitable environment with firm soil full of roots and plants.
> My torts flip at least three times a day and I've never even thought about helping them - it only takes them a few seconds to get back on their legs. The only dangerous spots could be for example slippery water bowls.


I cannot make a larger enclosure. There may be space, but I have to be able to move around. There is a lot furniture: the TV, coaches, tables, a fan (or an electric heater), and so on.


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## Sara G. (May 18, 2016)

How big is Oli now?
Do you have pics of him in the enclosure?


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## Gillian M (May 18, 2016)

TortoiseWarrior said:


> Can we see some pictures of oli?


So sorry, could not take pics of OLI today. It is going to have to wait.


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## Gillian M (May 18, 2016)

adptorts said:


> Is it a glass tank? Your tortoise might be trying to walk through it and any site barrier could help.


No, it's a wooden enclosure. I'd *NEVER* even dream of a glass. I know that torts do not understand the concept of glass.


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## Gillian M (May 18, 2016)

Sara G. said:


> How big is Oli now?
> Do you have pics of him in the enclosure?


OLI is now asleep so I cannot take pics of him now. Sorry Sarah, and thanks so much your help!


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## Gillian M (May 18, 2016)

Rue said:


> You could flip Oli and watch how he rights himself...that might give you some peace of mind - knowing that he can.


I did, after I watched the video on YouTube. But OLI kept struggling uselessly, and I just could sit and watch him suffer. He broke my heart.


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## Yvonne G (May 18, 2016)

Gillian Moore said:


> Yvonne, please do not misunderstand me here: you were the one who advised me to put a rock/brick in the enclosure. I hadn't planned to. I do NOT mean to offend/upset you ok?



Don't have a clue where that came from, Gillian. Not upset in the least. My last response was directed towards Rue.


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## Gillian M (May 18, 2016)

Yvonne G said:


> Don't have a clue where that came from, Gillian. Not upset in the least. My last response was directed towards Rue.


Terribly sorry Yvonne. It was not you who suggested placing a rock in OLI's enclosure. Please accept my apologies for the mistake.


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## Rue (May 18, 2016)

Gillian Moore said:


> I did, after I watched the video on YouTube. But OLI kept struggling uselessly, and I just could sit and watch him suffer. He broke my heart.



Well, at least you tried. Any idea why he can't right himself?

...and I agree...watching a turtle/tortoise on their back, struggling to roll over is one of the saddest things I've ever seen. I'm amazed they can do it at all.


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## Gillian M (May 18, 2016)

Rue said:


> Well, at least you tried. Any idea why he can't right himself?
> 
> ...and I agree...watching a turtle/tortoise on their back, struggling to roll over is one of the saddest things I've ever seen. I'm amazed they can do it at all.


No, unfortunately I have no idea why he could not turn back, so as to speak. Am no tort expert, and I personally believe that torts are definitely *NOT* the easiest pets to deal with. I wonder if you agree with me here.


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## Sara G. (May 18, 2016)

I think they're fairly easy once their enclosure is set up correctly. Then it's pretty easy to maintain everything.
But a small enclosure can definitely create problems. Especially if the tort needs more room to roam.


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## Rue (May 18, 2016)

Tortoises are a bit fussier than I was expecting from my initial reading/research, I agree with you on that. And I don't think they're a good pet for children (without some major parental hovering) so I don't know why they recommend them for beginners.

But I also agree with Sara, that once you're set up and they're older, it should be straightforward.

I'm set up for my hatchling now - and I have a little routine in place so it's not bad. It will all have to be reworked for an adult, but once that's done, I think it will be fine. A bit more expensive than I thought too...to get supplies - especially if I have to have to have a hatchling setup and then an adult set-up, but that's okay. All pets come with costs.


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## Speedy-1 (May 18, 2016)

*Hi Gillian , I have been reading , and looking at your enclosure . It looks as if Ollie can get his claws into the sides of your enclosure and climb it until he flips over ! If he is doing it in one corner , I might suggest putting a tall glass or a plate , or a bowl . (something he cant get his claws into to climb!) If it needed to be heavier , so he cant move it you could even fill it with water. It might be worth a try ? Good luck with it ! *


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## Gillian M (May 18, 2016)

Speedy-1 said:


> *Hi Gillian , I have been reading , and looking at your enclosure . It looks as if Ollie can get his claws into the sides of your enclosure and climb it until he flips over ! If he is doing it in one corner , I might suggest putting a tall glass or a plate , or a bowl . (something he cant get his claws into to climb!) If it needed to be heavier , so he cant move it you could even fill it with water. It might be worth a try ? Good luck with it ! *



Thanks so much your help.

I'll give it a try. I don't think I have anything to lose at this point. I have been doing so much research/reading on this subject; as it has kept me worried night and day long. Imagine that it is now 12.15 am and sleep is nowhere near, with OLI's issue on my mind. 

And once again...............

HAPPY BIRTHDAY!


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## cmacusa3 (May 18, 2016)

I had that issue with my box turtle hatchlings and put tile in the corners, it fixed the issue. Like the above poster wrote, anything that would cause the claws to slide off would probably work.


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## Gillian M (May 18, 2016)

Abramsmytankturtle said:


> I had that issue with my box turtle hatchlings and put tile in the corners, it fixed the issue. Like the above poster wrote, anything that would cause the claws to slide off would probably work.



Do you have any idea why a tort would behave in such a manner?





Do you mean something of the sort?


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## cmacusa3 (May 18, 2016)

Yes but smooth tile is what I used. 

I believe like everyone else posted, it's just a new place, Torts and Turtles love to explore and he just wants to keep looking around this giant world.


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## cmacusa3 (May 18, 2016)

I butted it up in the corners and buried a few inches in the substrate, they could no longer pull up and flip.


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## Gillian M (May 18, 2016)

Abramsmytankturtle said:


> Yes but smooth tile is what I used.
> 
> I believe like everyone else posted, it's just a new place, Torts and Turtles love to explore and he just wants to keep looking around this giant world.


Thanks your advise - appreciate it.


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## Jacqui (May 19, 2016)

Only one corner or all of them? If only one corner, which one is it in the picture?


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## Gillian M (May 19, 2016)

Jacqui said:


> Only one corner or all of them? If only one corner, which one is it in the picture?









OLI is concentrating on the corner that is in the bigger section of the enclosure; the corner nearer to the screen, that is right-hand side of that section. One cannot see it in the pic. What difference does it make?


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## SarahChelonoidis (May 20, 2016)

Can Oli see the screen? He may be trying to get to it.


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## Gillian M (May 20, 2016)

SarahChelonoidis said:


> Can Oli see the screen? He may be trying to get to it.


When I said "screen" I'd meant the screen of the laptop-a misunderstanding. What did you mean?

He's driven me nuts, to say the least. Today I was obliged to go and buy a couple of things. Sorry to say that I returned home to find him on his back! GOD only knows for how long he'd been in such an irritating, dangerous position. Believe me, I'm thinking of putting him back in the small enclosure.


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## Gillian M (May 20, 2016)

Abramsmytankturtle said:


> I butted it up in the corners and buried a few inches in the substrate, they could no longer pull up and flip.


I placed a tile in the said corner. But since then OLI has been asleep, so I don't know what his reaction would be.


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## Rue (May 20, 2016)

Have you tried moving the enclosure? I mean reorienting it, see if he goes back to that one same corner. Maybe it's not that corner, maybe it's the location of the enclosure?

Can you take out the divider? I can't see that it's necessary, and by taking it out there would be more room (and less corners).

I can't tell how big it is. How big is it? How big is Oli?


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## Gillian M (May 20, 2016)

Rue said:


> Have you tried moving the enclosure? I mean reorienting it, see if he goes back to that one same corner. Maybe it's not that corner, maybe it's the location of the enclosure?
> 
> Can you take out the divider? I can't see that it's necessary, and by taking it out there would be more room (and less corners).
> 
> I can't tell how big it is. How big is it? How big is Oli?


Oh yes I have moved the enclosure. It's one of the first things I did. I'm almost certain it's the corner. 

I won't be able to remove the divider. I'll get the carpenter to remove it. Mind you, removing it won't have any effect on that "horrible" corner.

I'll take measurements of OLI s well as his enclosure and inform you.

Thanks so much your help.


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## Gillian M (May 20, 2016)

Rue said:


> Have you tried moving the enclosure? I mean reorienting it, see if he goes back to that one same corner. Maybe it's not that corner, maybe it's the location of the enclosure?
> 
> Can you take out the divider? I can't see that it's necessary, and by taking it out there would be more room (and less corners).
> 
> I can't tell how big it is. How big is it? How big is Oli?


Measured OLI and his enclosure immediately.

OLI is 12x10cm 

The enclosure is 55cm high, 115cm long, 75cm wide

Do you think that the enclosure is too small for OLI? I don't. There's some "myth", some secret to this strange behaviour of his, I believe.


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## Gillian M (May 20, 2016)

Jacqui said:


> Only one corner or all of them? If only one corner, which one is it in the picture?


Hi Jacqui. What difference does it make? It's just one corner.


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## Rue (May 20, 2016)

I am just playing Tortoise Detective. I think removing the divider will help. One space will be roomier (less claustrophobic maybe?). It is smaller than the recommendations, but I don't think it's so small as to cause a problem.

See if it improves with the divider gone. Maybe that will do the trick.


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## Gillian M (May 20, 2016)

Rue said:


> I am just playing Tortoise Detective. I think removing the divider will help. One space will be roomier (less claustrophobic maybe?). It is smaller than the recommendations, but I don't think it's so small as to cause a problem.
> 
> See if it improves with the divider gone. Maybe that will do the trick.


Thanks *VERY MUCH* your help. 

No, it is not that small an enclosure. You might be right: it should be larger, but as I said; I cannot afford a bigger one be it financially or space-wise. Let alone that, why didn't OLI behave like this when the enclosure was smaller, *MUCH* smaller? I wonder.  I'll get the carpenter to remove the divider, though it is going to have to wait, as Fridays and Saturdays everyone is off.


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## Jacqui (May 20, 2016)

Gillian Moore said:


> Hi Jacqui. What difference does it make? It's just one corner.



Then it might be something like as simple as how the light ir shadow hits it. Is it warmer/cooler than the rest. painted any different? Closer to a real light/year sourse outside of the box. Closer to your bedroom.


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## Jacqui (May 20, 2016)

Gillian Moore said:


> Oh yes I have moved the enclosure. It's one of the first things I did. I'm almost certain it's the corner.
> 
> I won't be able to remove the divider. I'll get the carpenter to remove it. Mind you, removing it won't have any effect on that "horrible" corner.
> 
> ...



When you moved it, did the same corner face the same direction? Where are you normally located with in this room?


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## Speedy-1 (May 20, 2016)

*Gillian , here is a 10 dollar fix , go to Walmart and buy a kids wading pool ! No corners to climb and flop over in .  If you were close enough , I would give you Speedy's since he has outgrown it !*


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## TortoiseWarrior (May 20, 2016)

Speedy-1 said:


> *Gillian , here is a 10 dollar fix , go to Walmart and buy a kids wading pool ! No corners to climb and flop over in .  If you were close enough , I would give you Speedy's since he has outgrown it !*


Nice idea.


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## JoesMum (May 20, 2016)

Except Gillian says she doesn't have more floor space in her apartment. Her enclosure is already too small


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## Rue (May 20, 2016)

Just curious...would they have something like Walmart where Gillian lives? Or even sell wading pools there?

I've never been out that way...I really have no idea outside what I've seen on the occasional real estate show on TV, and who knows how much of an idea those give you?


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## Speedy-1 (May 20, 2016)

Rue said:


> Just curious...would they have something like Walmart where Gillian lives? Or even sell wading pools there?
> 
> I've never been out that way...I really have no idea outside what I've seen on the occasional real estate show on TV, and who knows how much of an idea those give you?


*They are pretty much world wide , but I actually wouldn't know since it doesn't say where she is from and there is limited access to who can view her profile !  Unless she lives on an uncharted island somewhere I would naturally assume a plastic wading pool would be available somewhere fairly nearby ! If she really lives somewhere where plastic wading pools are non-existent she could go here ; http://www.walmart.com/all-departments and order one ! *


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## Speedy-1 (May 20, 2016)

JoesMum said:


> Except Gillian says she doesn't have more floor space in her apartment. Her enclosure is already too small


*They come in several sizes , length times width equals the area of her box ! the area of a square is Pi times the radius square . Pi equals 3.14 , radius square equals 1/2 the diameter , times itself ! So , the problem is really not quite as insurmountable as one may think ! *

*After 70 some odd posts I am sorry , I give up ! I am done here ! *


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## SarahChelonoidis (May 20, 2016)

Gillian lives in Jordan. I actually don't think Walmart has stores in Jordan. Delivery options are also quite limited and expensive there, from what I gather.


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## Si00z24 (May 20, 2016)

Our Redfoot went through a climbing and flipping faze. We put some smooth flat rocks in the center of his enclosure for a real gradual area he could climb over to entertain him. I'm not are if this helped but he did stop climbing the walls of the enclosure.


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## Rue (May 20, 2016)

That's a good idea a log or tunnel...or a log tunnel...in the middle to give him something to climb over.


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## Gillian M (May 20, 2016)

Jacqui said:


> Then it might be something like as simple as how the light ir shadow hits it. Is it warmer/cooler than the rest. painted any different? Closer to a real light/year sourse outside of the box. Closer to your bedroom.





It's the corner away from the light in the enclosure. It is not closer to my bedroom.


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## Gillian M (May 20, 2016)

SarahChelonoidis said:


> Gillian lives in Jordan. I actually don't think Walmart has stores in Jordan. Delivery options are also quite limited and expensive there, from what I gather.


Correct. *NO* Walmart in Jordan, *NO* care for animals/pets, *NO* vets, *NO* food for animals, with the exception of dogs. This is due to the fact that the filthy rich buy dogs to have them guard their luxurious villa, cars, and property. These animals are not considered pets in such cases.

I presume many of you know that I couldn't find mazuri here, and was told that torts live in the wild in this part of the world. Therefore, it wouldn't be worthwhile for businessmen to have the food on shelves till it expires, which makes sense. It was *ED* who was kind and generous enough to send me mazuri, cuttlefish,calcium and the rest. (Thanks ED!)


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## Gillian M (May 20, 2016)

Si00z24 said:


> Our Redfoot went through a climbing and flipping faze. We put some smooth flat rocks in the center of his enclosure for a real gradual area he could climb over to entertain him. I'm not are if this helped but he did stop climbing the walls of the enclosure.


I have placed a tile, as was advised, but OLI went on and on flipping on his back. There's got to be some "myth"/secret here, I think.


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## Gillian M (May 20, 2016)

JoesMum said:


> Except Gillian says she doesn't have more floor space in her apartment. Her enclosure is already too small


That's another issue: even if I had the money to make/buy a larger enclosure from abroad, please believe me: the flat is small as is. I have to leave some room to be able to move around, myself.


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## Gillian M (May 20, 2016)

TortoiseWarrior said:


> Nice idea.





Speedy-1 said:


> *Gillian , here is a 10 dollar fix , go to Walmart and buy a kids wading pool ! No corners to climb and flop over in .  If you were close enough , I would give you Speedy's since he has outgrown it !*


Thanks.


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## Gillian M (May 20, 2016)

Speedy-1 said:


> *Gillian , here is a 10 dollar fix , go to Walmart and buy a kids wading pool ! No corners to climb and flop over in .  If you were close enough , I would give you Speedy's since he has outgrown it !*


Would you please send me a pic of it? Thanks.


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## WithLisa (May 20, 2016)

Gillian Moore said:


> Would you please send me a pic of it? Thanks.


I guess @Speedy-1 means something like THIS.


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## TortoiseWarrior (May 20, 2016)

WithLisa said:


> I guess @Speedy-1 means something like THIS.


There it is!


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## Gillian M (May 20, 2016)

Thanks very much your help everyone. 

Appreciate it.


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## TortoiseWarrior (May 20, 2016)

TortoiseWarrior said:


> There it is!


I'm getting one of those pools.


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## Gillian M (May 20, 2016)

TortoiseWarrior said:


> I'm getting one of those pools.


Interesting. What species is your tort?


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## TortoiseWarrior (May 20, 2016)

Gillian Moore said:


> Interesting. What species is your tort?


Russian.


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## TortoiseWarrior (May 20, 2016)

Gillian Moore said:


> Interesting. What species is your tort?


What species is yours?


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## Big Charlie (May 20, 2016)

TortoiseWarrior said:


> I'm getting one of those pools.


I used one for Charlie when he was little and I wanted to give him outside time.


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## Gillian M (May 21, 2016)

TortoiseWarrior said:


> What species is yours?


A Greek tort.


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## Gillian M (May 21, 2016)

"He will be more likely to flip himself back over if there are things nearby to brace himself against. Try putting heavy objects like rocks or bricks in with him in spots where you think he might be able to use them to right himself."

HI. Just came across the above whilst *still* trying to find a solution to OLI's issue. I tried it with a rock. OLI climbed on the rock time and once again to flip on his back.


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## Gillian M (May 21, 2016)

Here's some more advise. Unfortunately there are no vets here. At the same time, I can say one thing: OLI does not seem to be ill. He roams around happily when we are outside or when I take him out of the enclosure. As for his appetite, he is eating pretty well.

"Turtles on their backs are vulnerable. It's difficult for many of them to right themselves. If flipping over occurs frequently to your pet, something is wrong with him. If he exhibits any symptoms of illness along with the flipping, take him to the vet for a thorough examination. If his appetite and behavior is otherwise normal, investigate his living conditions to see if you need to make changes."


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## Gillian M (May 21, 2016)

Please watch this video.







Would appreciate your comments here. Thank you.


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## Sara G. (May 21, 2016)

Unfortunately, I can't seem to watch your video. There's no link to follow for me. Could be this dinosaur of a computer that I'm using too.


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## JoesMum (May 21, 2016)

Gillian Moore said:


> Please watch this video.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It's just showing as a still for me too. Not a video


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## JoesMum (May 21, 2016)

Is this the video you meant @Gillian Moore ?


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## Jacqui (May 21, 2016)

JoesMum said:


> Except Gillian says she doesn't have more floor space in her apartment. Her enclosure is already too small



She could go a second story.


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## Rue (May 21, 2016)

I was told that a 2nd story is a no-no...

I was interested in one too, because it would be a much better use of indoor space for my situation too.

We have the room for a large enclourse - but not in convenient places. Our convenient places have less room...so it's a conundrum I'm trying to plan for. A second story would have addressed that, but as I said, it's a no-no...

One of the many 'conflicting advice' topics I've run across...


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## Sara G. (May 21, 2016)

The corner that Oli keeps going back to, is that the corner he usually flips over in?
You could try taking a piece of something and just barricading the corner off. A small piece, just so that he's not faced with a 90* angle.
I think for the most part that 2nd stories are considered a no-no, simply because they're more work than they're worth. But if you absolutely have 100% no room available, there might be ways to make it work. Again, you'd be adding a ramp, and more corners for Oli to deal with, but it's possible to cap the corners or at least make it so there's no hard right angles.


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## Gillian M (May 21, 2016)

JoesMum said:


> It's just showing as a still for me too. Not a video


Very sorry, that was my mistake. Apologies once again.


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## Gillian M (May 21, 2016)

Gillian Moore said:


> Very sorry, that was my mistake. Apologies once again.


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## JoesMum (May 21, 2016)

Some people do successfully have two stories, but problems come with controlling temperature and lighting on the two levels. 

The ramp must not be steep. 

It must be impossible to fall from upper to lower storey and also impossible to fall off the ramp. 

The ramp slope alone means that the floor size of the lower storey has to be pretty large just to get to sufficient height. 

It's not impossible to do, but it's certainly challenging in a small floor area like Gillian has.


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## Gillian M (May 21, 2016)

JoesMum said:


> Is this the video you meant @Gillian Moore ?


Yes it is.


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## Gillian M (May 21, 2016)

Sara G. said:


> Unfortunately, I can't seem to watch your video. There's no link to follow for me. Could be this dinosaur of a computer that I'm using too.


Apologies for the mistake.


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## Gillian M (May 21, 2016)

Sara G. said:


> The corner that Oli keeps going back to, is that the corner he usually flips over in?
> You could try taking a piece of something and just barricading the corner off. A small piece, just so that he's not faced with a 90* angle.
> I think for the most part that 2nd stories are considered a no-no, simply because they're more work than they're worth. But if you absolutely have 100% no room available, there might be ways to make it work. Again, you'd be adding a ramp, and more corners for Oli to deal with, but it's possible to cap the corners or at least make it so there's no hard right angles.


Thanks your help.


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## Gillian M (May 21, 2016)

JoesMum said:


> Some people do successfully have two stories, but problems come with controlling temperature and lighting on the two levels.
> 
> The ramp must not be steep.
> 
> ...


You are 100% right: it is possible to have a second storey done. However:

1) temperature will become a *NEW *issue
2) I cannot afford it at the moment.

Thanks so much your help, which I appreciate.


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## Gillian M (May 21, 2016)

Sara G. said:


> The corner that Oli keeps going back to, is that the corner he usually flips over in?
> You could try taking a piece of something and just barricading the corner off. A small piece, just so that he's not faced with a 90* angle.
> I think for the most part that 2nd stories are considered a no-no, simply because they're more work than they're worth. But if you absolutely have 100% no room available, there might be ways to make it work. Again, you'd be adding a ramp, and more corners for Oli to deal with, but it's possible to cap the corners or at least make it so there's no hard right angles.


Yes and it is always the *SAME* one. GOD only knows why he goes only to that one.


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## Gillian M (May 21, 2016)

Jacqui said:


> She could go a second story.


Room, temperature and last but not least money are an issue here.

Thanks your help Jacqui.


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## JoesMum (May 21, 2016)

As for the video, it shows a tort (kept far too dry on sand!) that can flip itself. 

He carefully turned the lights off so she didn't "cook" while she did it... Your lights won't go off automatically every time Oli flips on his back - he is at risk. 

It is better to prevent flipping in the first place.


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## Sara G. (May 21, 2016)

Seriously, try putting a tile, piece of plastic, piece of wood, something in front of the corner so there is no 90* angle.
It should make it more difficult for him to flip over.


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## Cowboy_Ken (May 21, 2016)

I've thought the solution to this issue would be a triangle shaped piece of wood, parallel to the substrate about 3"-4" above the height of the tortoises carapace. 
This would stop the tortoise, (Oli) from getting high enough to flip himself in the first place. I know someone has to have a picture of what I'm describing that they could post. I've got rain up here and I'm reluctant to have my phone out like that.


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## Sara G. (May 21, 2016)

I know exactly what you mean, I don't have a picture of it unfortunately.
But that would work equally well.


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## Gillian M (May 22, 2016)

Sara G. said:


> Seriously, try putting a tile, piece of plastic, piece of wood, something in front of the corner so there is no 90* angle.
> It should make it more difficult for him to flip over.


I did put a tile in that corner, so as to get rid of the 90 degree angle, but it didn't do anything!


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## Kori5 (May 22, 2016)

Gillie I think when Oli gets used to his new enclosure he'll stop flipping. It is still all new to him.


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## Sara G. (May 22, 2016)

Was it tall enough and sturdy enough?
You want something that goes straight up and is equal or the sides of his enclosure. If it has any give or if he can stand up and see over it it won't work.

I would definitely get rid of the middle piece of the enclosure as well. A few good whacks with a hammer should be enough to knock it loose and get it out. I know he's only flipping in that one corner but with the extra open space maybe he'll rethink how he feels about it.


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## Gillian M (May 22, 2016)

*Breaking News*:

I managed to solve the issue last night after having sat down hours on end beside OLI (who was obviously in his enclosure). I kept watching to see what on earth it was that "attracted" his attention so much to that terrifying corner. I came to find out that he was attracted to the *ORANGE* material around the enclosure, which the carpenter has placed with a....*STAPLER. *(Sorry, one cannot see that in pic). It turned out that OLI was climbing at getting to the space *between* one staple and another. (Little brat!) I got the carpenter to remove the orange coloured material, to replace it with something grey and stick it to the enclosure with anything but staples, and he did. "Now we'll see OLI's reaction" I thought. I placed OLI in his enclosure and watched once again. He went to the same corner, did not manage to climb, and began to roam around, relatively happily, I could say. Wow, what a relief.

Will post pic of the enclosure after the amendment.

Thanks once again for your help everyone.







Kori5 said:


> Gillie I think when Oli gets used to his new enclosure he'll stop flipping. It is still all new to him.


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## Rue (May 22, 2016)

I hope that solved the problem for you both!


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## Gillian M (May 22, 2016)

Rue said:


> I hope that solved the problem for you both!


Oh yes, you bet it did. He drove me *MAD*! 

Thanks a lot your help, appreciate it.


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## Gillian M (May 22, 2016)

Sara G. said:


> Was it tall enough and sturdy enough?
> You want something that goes straight up and is equal or the sides of his enclosure. If it has any give or if he can stand up and see over it it won't work.
> 
> I would definitely get rid of the middle piece of the enclosure as well. A few good whacks with a hammer should be enough to knock it loose and get it out. I know he's only flipping in that one corner but with the extra open space maybe he'll rethink how he feels about it.


I kept the divider, and it seems to me that it is not annoying OLI at all.


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## Big Charlie (May 22, 2016)

Gillian Moore said:


> *Breaking News*:
> 
> I managed to solve the issue last night after having sat down hours on end beside OLI (who was obviously in his enclosure). I kept watching to see what on earth it was that "attracted" his attention so much to that terrifying corner. I came to find out that he was attracted to the *ORANGE* material around the enclosure, which the carpenter has placed with a....*STAPLER. *(Sorry, one cannot see that in pic). It turned out that OLI was climbing at getting to the space *between* one staple and another. (Little brat!) I got the carpenter to remove the orange coloured material, to replace it with something grey and stick it to the enclosure with anything but staples, and he did. "Now we'll see OLI's reaction" I thought. I placed OLI in his enclosure and watched once again. He went to the same corner, did not manage to climb, and began to roam around, relatively happily, I could say. Wow, what a relief.
> 
> ...


Great news and great detective work!


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## Gillian M (May 22, 2016)

Big Charlie said:


> Great news and great detective work!


Thank you.  That "detective" work drove me *mad! *


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## Cowboy_Ken (May 22, 2016)

Gillian Moore said:


> Thank you.  That "detective" work drove me *mad! *


Well done, you!!!


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## JoesMum (May 22, 2016)

Orange clearly means tasty to Oli! What a performance! I am glad it's fixed


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## TortoiseWarrior (May 22, 2016)

Good job. Happy for ya!


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## Gillian M (May 23, 2016)

JoesMum said:


> Orange clearly means tasty to Oli! What a performance! I am glad it's fixed


Thank you.  I can assure you it was a lot of *hard* work. 

Yep, orange, red and those bright colours, definitely have their effects on torts.


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## Gillian M (May 23, 2016)

TortoiseWarrior said:


> Good job. Happy for ya!


Thanks a lot.


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## Gillian M (May 23, 2016)

Cowboy_Ken said:


> Well done, you!!!


Thank you, Ken.


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## Prairie Mom (May 24, 2016)

Gillian Moore said:


> *Breaking News*:
> 
> I managed to solve the issue last night after having sat down hours on end beside OLI (who was obviously in his enclosure). I kept watching to see what on earth it was that "attracted" his attention so much to that terrifying corner. I came to find out that he was attracted to the *ORANGE* material around the enclosure, which the carpenter has placed with a....*STAPLER. *(Sorry, one cannot see that in pic). It turned out that OLI was climbing at getting to the space *between* one staple and another. (Little brat!) I got the carpenter to remove the orange coloured material, to replace it with something grey and stick it to the enclosure with anything but staples, and he did. "Now we'll see OLI's reaction" I thought. I placed OLI in his enclosure and watched once again. He went to the same corner, did not manage to climb, and began to roam around, relatively happily, I could say. Wow, what a relief.
> 
> ...


I can't believe what all Oli has put you through!!! So glad you sleuthed it out!


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## Gillian M (May 25, 2016)

Prairie Mom said:


> I can't believe what all Oli has put you through!!! So glad you sleuthed it out!


Hi Chrissy! Oh,he did give me a hard time. Couldn't move, leave home, let alone sleep.


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## Prairie Mom (May 25, 2016)

Gillian Moore said:


> Hi Chrissy! Oh,he did give me a hard time. Couldn't move, leave home, let alone sleep.


I was worried that was the case. So glad things are better now!


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## Gillian M (May 26, 2016)

Prairie Mom said:


> I was worried that was the case. So glad things are better now!


Thank you!


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