# Back from vet Update.



## gingerbee (Nov 23, 2014)

A few years ago when I was on here a lot, the thoughts on pyramiding was it was caused by diet. When I got sparky 11 years 
ago she was pyramided and so I've tried to smooth her out not too successfully. Now I've been reading it's do to low humidity which has been the case for me as I have an open enclosure at least 3/4's open. 
Sparky has a pen which is 6by8 feet. Peat moss for substance and spaghern moss that I got today. We got a plastic tarp to cover it up and spraying it down.she has shell problems starting with a burn that has gotten infected. Under vets care doing scrubs with dilute iodine solution followed by silver sulfadiazine cream. Tomorrow back for follow up. She's losing scutes. The original burnt one is half way off and the one next to it is lifting to. (She burnt it on her heat lamp obviously too low) I think it's better but I'm worried about others that seem like u can get a fingernail under at the edges. I must say the shell looks like new healthy growth is appearing. 
I feel terrible about this. She eats like a little pig and is very bright eyed. The vet thought her shell looked good lower than the problem area. 
Any more ideas would be appreciated!!


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## russian/sulcata/tortoise (Nov 23, 2014)

hello! soaking him in warm water daily will help her grow smoothly.


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## gingerbee (Nov 23, 2014)

russian/sulcata/tortoise said:


> hello! soaking him in warm water daily will help her grow smoothly.


Thanks I do soak not every day but I'll take your advice.


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## russian/sulcata/tortoise (Nov 23, 2014)

gingerbee said:


> Thanks I do soak not every day but I'll take your advice.


can you post some pics of the tort?


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## russian/sulcata/tortoise (Nov 23, 2014)

a lot of tort owners make the mistake of keeping tortoises dry, i did the same thing with my sulcata for his first year of life.


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## gingerbee (Nov 23, 2014)

russian/sulcata/tortoise said:


> a lot of tort owners make the mistake of keeping tortoises dry, i did the same thing with my sulcata for his first year of life.


I haven't been able to upload pic when I click the file bottom it pops me off the site. I put a post up about this for help and a member put a pic up I sent to them I can't find it to tell u where in my account. The phone app didn't work for me either!!


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## gingerbee (Nov 23, 2014)

I searched and found its "help with posting pictures please"


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## Yvonne G (Nov 24, 2014)

Hi Gingerbee:

Don't worry about the shell. Once a scute starts to lift, that means it has lost its blood supply. So eventually it will come off. There's nothing you can do about it. But, as long as the shell doesn't become infected, it will be perfectly ok. It won't be very pretty for a while, but it's not harmful or unhealthy for the tortoise.

Once a tortoise has grown pyramided, it's there to stay. All the moisture in the world isn't going to help it now. The object with moisture is to use it when the tortoise is a baby...during the first couple of years of its life. But if your tortoise doesn't have MBD, pyramiding is only cosmetic.


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## gingerbee (Nov 24, 2014)

Thanks for your reply! So she's looking a bit dry on head and legs so adding moisture should help I thought. Love your torts by the way.


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## Yvonne G (Nov 24, 2014)

Take a look at our coconut oil thread. There might be some help for your tortoise there:

http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/coconut-oil.103782/


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## gingerbee (Nov 24, 2014)

Thank you I did read that and was concedering doing it. Wasn't sure with the silver dine med though. I'll ask the vet today though she may not have heard about it!! 
Thanks for your time!!


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## Jacqui (Nov 24, 2014)

So this is from the carapace being burned?


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## gingerbee (Nov 24, 2014)

Yes that was the start. I've done as much debriding as I'm comfortable with. Going to the vet this morning so I'll see what she says. She talked about putting her under to get more off I'm not sure if I should.


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## gingerbee (Nov 24, 2014)

Well sparky shell is much better as I thought. Still the issue with the second scute lifting. Ned to concentrate on it. The original bad area has indeed got lots of hard new growth. 
I told her of my plan to up humidity but she didn't want a big change because of the shell rot. She thinks it needs air circulation at this time more than the extra moisture. That does make sense so I'll wait and not cover up the whole enclosure yet.


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## stojanovski92113 (Nov 30, 2014)

I'm glad to hear sparky is getting better


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## gingerbee (Nov 30, 2014)




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## gingerbee (Nov 30, 2014)

This is Herman!! Sorry I even having trouble posting pics so didn't think to write anything about him. He's a woodie I've had 10 years got him from a breeder in Michigan !!


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## gingerbee (Nov 30, 2014)




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## pam (Nov 30, 2014)

Sooooooooooooooooooooooooo cute


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## wellington (Nov 30, 2014)

Do you know what the shell problem is from and are you treating it or is it an old shell injury?


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## Yvonne G (Nov 30, 2014)

Wood turtles have the most expressive faces. Very cute turtle!


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## gingerbee (Nov 30, 2014)

It's an injury from a heat lamp she bumped up against. That's been fixed. She's under Dr. Care. I disinfect daily with dilute iodine then debride,apply silver sulfadiazine. The new growth is hard and the other parts of her shell and between have all hardened up!!!
I'm very pleased though looks like the scute in front of the original burned one is lifting and may be lost also.i feel terrible about this
She was outside this summer and in the fall I notified the problem again. It actually is a year since her first round of treatment. I thought she was good till I noticed the second one lifting. ;( she still eats like a piglet and is friendly acting normal in every other way. Just shows things can get out of control easily!!!
That is a pic from three weeks ago with the silver sulfadiazine cream on her!!


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## gingerbee (Nov 30, 2014)

Yvonne G said:


> Wood turtles have the most expressive faces. Very cute turtle!


Thanks!! He's a card he does the stomp also!! Especially in the spring when he's wanting his worms!! He's housed in the basement when it's evening or winter and we can hear the steady stomping!


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## wellington (Nov 30, 2014)

Glad she is healing. I wonder though why it would then lift the other scute. Possibly damage under scute that couldn't be seen. @Yvonne G may have some more advice on what can be done. She has rehabbed many.


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## gingerbee (Nov 30, 2014)

I'm wondering the same thing!! Actually pretty worried about it!! Thank you for your reply!


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## gingerbee (Dec 3, 2014)

lets see if this works.


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## gingerbee (Dec 3, 2014)

this is the area I'm now concerned with it looks like new growth but almost looks like a stacking affect.


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## gingerbee (Dec 3, 2014)

This pic is of her shell I've been working on for three weeks!! Be iodine washes then silver sulfadiazine applied to scutes that were damaged and lifting. Original injury burn from heat lamp, then the scute in front started lifting. Everything has hardened up hoping new growth continues and groves between scutes fill in. Any thoughts??


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## gingerbee (Dec 3, 2014)

Here's new pics


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## russian/sulcata/tortoise (Dec 3, 2014)

amazing pictures!


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## gingerbee (Dec 3, 2014)

So sorry it's not letting me post pics again. I'm embrassed. Don't think I'll try again.


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## russian/sulcata/tortoise (Dec 3, 2014)

gingerbee said:


> So sorry it's not letting me post pics again. I'm embrassed. Don't think I'll try again.


lol its all good dude! why species is sparky?


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## gingerbee (Dec 3, 2014)

Redfoot


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## gingerbee (Dec 3, 2014)

It's working all of a sudden!! Can't figure this out but there's some pic anyway!!'


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## ZEROPILOT (Dec 4, 2014)

I was under the understanding that Iodine will slow new shell growth. It looks like it's healing satisfactorily.


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## Moozillion (Dec 4, 2014)

He's a very handsome fellow!!!


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## Marci_redfoot (Dec 4, 2014)

I'm happy that your tort is on the mend. What causes this condition? Just not enough airflow?


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## gingerbee (Dec 4, 2014)

Marci_redfoot said:


> I'm happy that your tort is on the mend. What causes this condition? Just not enough airflow?


It originally was a burn from a heat lamp. 
The vet wanted her not to be too wet or humid because of the shell problem. Didn't want fungus or more shell rot occuring.


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## Marci_redfoot (Dec 4, 2014)

Aww poor baby!! I'm so scared of that happening to Marci. Shells heal slowly sometimes, but she'll get through it. 
Lots of love to you and Sparky!!


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## Maro2Bear (Dec 4, 2014)

GingrrBee
Good luck with the healing process, good thst u had a follow-up vet visit. Did the heat lamp fall into your tort's enclosure, or was it just too close to the substrate and tort didnt move away? Just want to help others to keep this from occurring. Thanks


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## ZEROPILOT (Dec 5, 2014)

I'm thankful that I live in an area that doesn't require heat lamps for my pets and I'm very sorry about your tort. Glad that his shell has improved and that you seem to have found a vet with some idea of how to treat a tortoise.


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## gingerbee (Dec 5, 2014)

Thank you all for your replies!! The heat lamp did fall or shift down(the dreaded clamp slipped!!) still concerned because that started off the next scute to lift I don't know if it's rot or what. Then she's developed groves up on the top of shell that are between the scutes although it looks like new growth and hard shell is coming. Pic in my "sparky Pics ) thread. It's not extreme by any means just makes me nervous and guilty feeling


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## gingerbee (Dec 5, 2014)

Thank you Marci and Margo2bear! I appreciate your replies!!!


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## VBgecko (Dec 5, 2014)

I hear ya on the "guilt" … 

Just try to do right by the little guys and it always seems like you have a handle on things all of a sudden something happens to make you feel out of your element and feel like a beginner again :/

Good to know Sparky is on the mend


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## gingerbee (Dec 6, 2014)

I'm pretty upset about sparky's shell. Just when I think it's improving I notice other area s that seem to be lifting. The vet said she was better last week but I'm not so sure. She goes back in a week for next checkup. 
I'm just not confident in the care she's receiving from me. I hate to re home but it may be her best option. She's so sweet and friendly I've had her eleven years so it's not going to be easy. 
To late in the year to ship her and in the end I don't know if I can do it. ;(
Her enclosure is 8ft by 4 ft. 3 lights for heat including a exo sun and heat lamp. Uva strip light. 
The enclosure is 3/4 covered.
If I decide to re home anyone on west coast who could rehab her this spring summer?


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## Yvonne G (Dec 6, 2014)

Don't get upset. I tried to warn you on your original thread. Believe me, I know what I'm talking about...I've had the same experience:

Once a scute starts to lift, it has lost its blood supply. That means it is no longer being fed and it will come off. Underneath is dead bone. You will NOT see hard new growth, because the new growth happens UNDER the white dead bone that you see under the lifted off scute.

I have had a Russian tortoise here with the whole carapace's scutes chewed off by a dog. The tortoise came out of the experience just fine. It takes a very long time, but eventually new scutes grow back UNDER THE OLD WHITE DEAD BONE.

There is nothing anyone else can do for your tortoise that you aren't doing. Sending him away isn't going to change the fact that you have to wait a very long time for this to all start to look better. In the mean time, the tortoise is fine. It's not going to kill him.




Look closely at the picture. See the big crack on the right side, in fact all the cracks all around the 'skirt'? That means the tortoise is growing UNDERNEATH THAT OLD DEAD BONE AND THE NEW GROWTH IS BIGGER THAN the old dead bone, so it has caused it to crack. It will eventually all flake off and you will see a new shell underneath (and new bone under that, that you won't see).

So, calm down and just treat the tortoise with love, just like you have been. He's going to be fine.


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## dmmj (Dec 6, 2014)

There are many here who would prob. do it, if she has special needs, make sure the person is experienced. Sorry to hear you may have to make this choice.


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## gingerbee (Dec 6, 2014)

Thank you so much!! I just get upset thinking I'm not doing right by her. I do remember your original reply to me . Yvonne thank you!! 
Thanks again!
Believe me I don't want to send her away!!!


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## Ciri (Dec 6, 2014)

Take a deep breath, and give her some time to heal. You had her for 11 years and the vet has pointed out the things are getting better. I've seen my box turtle's shells improve over time after they had been injured. It's just a very slow process. Sometimes the universe gives us these opportunities to learn how to be there for others in their healing process, even when it's challenging for us. Hang in there. It'll all work out in time.


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## newCH (Dec 6, 2014)

YvonneG you explaned that awesome. Ive beed schooled !
Gingerbee, you have had Sparky for so long. Everyone has times
when they second guess themselves.
I like what YvonneG said, hang in there.


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## gingerbee (Dec 6, 2014)

Thank you!! I feel much better and I like what she said also!!!


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## dmmj (Dec 6, 2014)

If bettter care can't be provided, and you are doing your best, and what the vet says. Then in all honesty what in the world can someone else do? I would throw in a few insults here, but I don't think they would do any good.  
Keep the tortoise you idjit ( that is said with love).


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## gingerbee (Dec 6, 2014)

Firing thanks for the encouraging words!!
Dmmj thank you also


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## gingerbee (Dec 6, 2014)

That darn auto correct I meant Ciri thanks for the encouraging words


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## VBgecko (Dec 6, 2014)

Would you like some of my Xanax? *_shakes bottle_*

Trust me, I'm in the same boat as you … It's personally embarrassing for me to be surrounded by such experienced people and feel like I screwed up a tortoise that I've had for 8 years (and thought I knew enough about to properly care for). 

But illness/injuries happen sometimes and with their slow metabolisms and slow … EVERYTHING, it's hard to stay patient sometimes. I think the illness with Scooter is a good education and it's making me a better keeper, just like this one you're going through with Sparky. 

If the vet is confident and happy with the progress, then you're doing right by your tort. It just blows you don't get to see immediate responses to any of their treatments.

Just remember the tortoise and the hare metaphor: _Being steadfast and patient is key to winning the race, whatever it may be in life.
_
I'm with *dmmj* on this one. You're an _idjit_ if you give up your little guy


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## gingerbee (Dec 6, 2014)

I appreciate your response VBgecko!! I can see your doing so well with scooter!! The little buggers can fool you and a problem can show up slowly and be already out of control!! 
I'm feeling better about things now thanks to you and others on the forum!! I really don't know how I'd ever be able to part with her!! Thanks again!!


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## leigti (Dec 6, 2014)

I guess it's time to rename your thread  keep up the good work with your tortoise.


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## leigti (Dec 7, 2014)

Yvonne G said:


> Don't get upset. I tried to warn you on your original thread. Believe me, I know what I'm talking about...I've had the same experience:
> 
> Once a scute starts to lift, it has lost its blood supply. That means it is no longer being fed and it will come off. Underneath is dead bone. You will NOT see hard new growth, because the new growth happens UNDER the white dead bone that you see under the lifted off scute.
> 
> ...


It is absolutely amazing that they can recover from something like this. How long do you think it will take before the tortoise looks "normal" or will he ever? doesn't seem to affect him in anyway? Activity levels, eating etc.?


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## gingerbee (Dec 7, 2014)

Boy I'm not sure !!! My gal doesn't look as bad as the pictured tort. Maybe she will though we'll have to see. Her activity and eating ect. Are all normal. She's very active and alert. Thanks leigti for your reply. I see your in wa. We are in eastern wa also!!


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## leigti (Dec 7, 2014)

gingerbee said:


> Boy I'm not sure !!! My gal doesn't look as bad as the pictured tort. Maybe she will though we'll have to see. Her activity and eating ect. Are all normal. She's very active and alert. Thanks leigti for your reply. I see your in wa. We are in eastern wa also!!


Oh really? I am in Walla Walla. Where are you?


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## Hermes (Dec 7, 2014)

leigti said:


> Oh really? I am in Walla Walla. Where are you?


I guess all the cool people are here in WA lol


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## mike taylor (Dec 7, 2014)

No! The cool people are also in Texas!


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## Hermes (Dec 7, 2014)

mike taylor said:


> No! The cool people are also in Texas!



Lol I'll give you that one because I was stationed in TX for a while and I loved it lol but now I'm here! Lol


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## leigti (Dec 8, 2014)

mike taylor said:


> No! The cool people are also in Texas!


I am originally from Colorado so that gives me an automatic right to make fun of Texans  especially if they try to ski   or drive in snow


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## gingerbee (Dec 8, 2014)

Spokane!! Yikes we're close!


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## VBgecko (Dec 8, 2014)

Born and bread in Minnesota _aka: South Canada.
_
Y'all can suck it!  

My ex from Las Vegas was trying to puff out his chest and claim I wouldn't be able to take the heat or drive after a rain (because the roads get oily slick). 

He was sad that a 113º day in Vegas I was enjoying being out in the heat (and yes you wusses, it IS a _dry heat … _Church it up any which way you want, you would never survive a summer in MN when the heat index is 123º --Which is incidentally why it's perfect for Scooter, when you have to use a butter knife to cut through the air just to walk to your car), and making him drive in snow made him look like he just got his permit to drive. 

Yeah, I think I can hack it in Vegas


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## gingerbee (Dec 8, 2014)

leigti said:


> Oh really? I am in Walla Walla. Where are you?


Looks like Hermes is from wa also. Are you close?


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## leigti (Dec 8, 2014)

gingerbee said:


> Looks like Hermes is from wa also. Are you close?


@Hermes are you in St. John Washington? In Whitman County? Or is there a town just called John Washington?


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## leigti (Dec 8, 2014)

gingerbee said:


> Spokane!! Yikes we're close!


I'm just three hours south of you.


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## Hermes (Dec 8, 2014)

leigti said:


> @Hermes are you in St. John Washington? In Whitman County? Or is there a town just called John Washington?


I'm at Ft Lewis, by Tacoma.


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## leigti (Dec 8, 2014)

Hermes said:


> I'm at Ft Lewis, by Tacoma.


I wondered, you said you were in the military. But your profile says John Washington. tacoma is a nice area much wetter on that side of the state


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## Hermes (Dec 8, 2014)

VBgecko said:


> Born and bread in Minnesota _aka: South Canada.
> _
> Y'all can suck it!
> 
> ...


Lol why would you be proud of extreme weather that you can't even enjoy? I'm from Miami, Florida. It's so nice that it feels like its summer all year long, and you can wear shorts and sandals year round and it never ever snows.


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## VBgecko (Dec 9, 2014)

Hermes said:


> Lol why would you be proud of extreme weather that you can't even enjoy? I'm from Miami, Florida. It's so nice that it feels like its summer all year long, and you can wear shorts and sandals year round and it never ever snows.



What is this you speak of "Extreme weather you can't enjoy?"

If you come from hardy stock, you can enjoy every kind of weather! 10º? That's t-shirt weather where I'm from.


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## Hermes (Dec 9, 2014)

VBgecko said:


> What is this you speak of "Extreme weather you can't enjoy?"
> 
> If you come from hardy stock, you can enjoy every kind of weather! 10º? That's t-shirt weather where I'm from.


No... You can survive any kind of weather which is different than enjoying it. But I've never heard anybody saving money to retire in Minnesota lol


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## Yvonne G (Dec 9, 2014)

leigti said:


> I wondered, you said you were in the military. But your profile says John Washington. tacoma is a nice area much wetter on that side of the state



His profile says "Joint Base Lewis McCord"


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## Hermes (Dec 9, 2014)

Yvonne G said:


> His profile says "Joint Base Lewis McCord"


Yeah that's right by Tacoma


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## VBgecko (Dec 9, 2014)

Hermes said:


> No... You can survive any kind of weather which is different than enjoying it. But I've never heard anybody saving money to retire in Minnesota lol



Never been to the North Shore, I take it …


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## leigti (Dec 9, 2014)

Yvonne G said:


> His profile says "Joint Base Lewis McCord"


Oh, sorry, when I click on his avatar on my phone app it leads me to information that says John Washington. I don't know what it says on the computer, I usually don't access TFO on the computer.


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## Marci_redfoot (Dec 10, 2014)

Don't give up on sparky! I'm sure the stress of re-homing wouldn't do the poor thing any favors right now. Keeping her warm and safe, with familiar surroundings, is probably best. I love box turtles. I hope she gets better soon.


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## gingerbee (Dec 17, 2014)

Well we went in for another follow up visit about her shell. Vet is pleased with the new growth and areas that were spongy have hardened up!! Still have issues with the scute in front of the orginial burn but seems on the mend!! Can stop the silverdine but continue cleaning daily. 
It's nice to hear this cause when you see it daily sometimes you don't see the improvement.


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## Maro2Bear (Dec 17, 2014)

Great. Keep up the good work!


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## Randi (Dec 17, 2014)

I had a scary experience with a light before - my 100 watt heat light exploded and then the dome started to flame. This happened in my leopard gecko tank! The hide below it, which was about 18" or more below the light was burnt  

I'm so sorry this happened to your baby. It also is not easy for you, either. I hope for the fastest recovery possible! And please don't blame yourself. 

I saw it mentioned above and I'm curious too, but I was also under the impression that iodine will inhibit new skin growth. Would something like Chlorhexidine (Novalsan) be acceptable to replace iodine with?


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## gingerbee (Dec 17, 2014)

Good question about the iodine!!she wants me to continue using it. Maybe I should call and ask about that. She did say they dilute it they made up a bunch on gauge for me to use. She wouldn't tell me the formula though. 
Thanks for your comments.


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## gingerbee (Dec 21, 2014)

I went down this morning to bathe Sparky to a mess in the enclosure. She'd knocked everything over and her orginial scute had been knocked off. Granted it was lifting but I didn't think it was ready to come off yet!! Orginial scute that was injured I should say. 
It looks pretty good underneath!!


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## mike taylor (Dec 21, 2014)

Pictures or it didn't happen .


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## gingerbee (Dec 21, 2014)

I'd love to but once again I couldn't get them onto the site! I even took a pic of the scute!! Along with Sparky without it!! Lol


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