# TNT :D



## Isa (Jan 20, 2010)

Wooohoooo I just received my order from Carolina Pet Supply, I ordered TNT . I am sure some of you is wondering WHY I am so happy ? It is because I was not sure they would let it pass at the custom. I called them before ordering and they told me that it always depends of who is verifying the parcel. Some agent would want the product to be tested and when it is accepted, I would have to pay the fees of the testing  if I still want the vitamin. Since I am not going to the States soon well I ordered it anyway. I heard some very good comments here about this vitamin so I really wanted to give some to Hermy . I sent Carolina Pet supply an E-mail to ask them if Hermy could eat it even if he has Kidney's problem and how many times a week should I sprinkle Hermy's food with it. Joe answered that It has no negative effects on the kidneys and I should keep it sealed and store in a cold dry place (like the door of a refrigerator if I want it to last a year and he also told me to sprinkle Hermy's food 2-3 times a week . I am so glad it went through the custom .
I was not sure if I should post the thread in Food and diet, Hermanns section or here, but since I just wanted to say ''WOOHOO I got the TNT'' I thought it would be ok in the OT Sections. Feel free to change it


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## chadk (Jan 20, 2010)

I've been using TNT for a while now. Good stuff!


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## sammi (Jan 20, 2010)

Haha congratulations! I use it too, good stuff =] Might take a bit for your buddy to get used to, but it will come sooner or later =]


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## Jupiterannette (Jan 20, 2010)

what is tnt? is it good for sulcatas?


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## Yvonne G (Jan 20, 2010)

From the web site:



This blend of powders was developed for Russian Tortoises, but is excellent for all tortoises, turtles, bearded dragons, geckos, all herbivore and omnivore reptiles and gut loading crickets, superworms and mealworms. It has been tested over the last 10 or so years on hatchlings and adults. By using this (with cuttlebone)I have eliminated the need to use any other supplements including calcium powders. All ingredients were chosen for their health benefits, palatability and nutritional content. The result is a mix with balanced amino acids, high calcium and magnesium, low phosphorous and high soluble and insoluble fiber.

Each order is mixed the day it is shipped to insure freshness.

ingredients:

* barley grass powder
* Roselle powder (Hibiscus)
* powdered orchard grass hay
* dandelion leaf powder
* plantain leaf powder
* wheat grass powder
* chickweed powder
* raspberry leaf powder
* rose hip powder
* mulberry powder
* and more...
* OPTIONAL...Professional Grade Probiotics with microencapsulated (so more survive the digestive process and end up in the intestines where they are needed) beneficial bacteria


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## Jupiterannette (Jan 20, 2010)

ooooooooo I want some! so i could put this on his greens each day instead of the calcium w/ D3 or with it....

ok i ordered it.. a bit pricey but hes worth it!.. now i need to find a small amount of mazuri to try... im scared though..


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## Shelly (Jan 20, 2010)

Jupiterannette said:


> im scared



Of what?


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## DoctorCosmonaut (Jan 20, 2010)

Link please


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## Jupiterannette (Jan 20, 2010)

that he will only want to eat the mazuri and nothing else...  he does sooooo good eating hay and weeds and greens.. do i really wanna mess with that.... i want a good back up... he does like the zoo med desert tort pellets but not enought ot desert his hay and greens!

http://www.carolinapetsupply.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=58

link to TNT


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## bettinge (Jan 20, 2010)

Isa said:


> Wooohoooo I just received my order from Carolina Pet Supply, I ordered TNT . I am sure some of you is wondering WHY I am so happy ? It is because I was not sure they would let it pass at the custom. I called them before ordering and they told me that it always depends of who is verifying the parcel. Some agent would want the product to be tested and when it is accepted, I would have to pay the fees of the testing  if I still want the vitamin. Since I am not going to the States soon well I ordered it anyway. I heard some very good comments here about this vitamin so I really wanted to give some to Hermy . I sent Carolina Pet supply an E-mail to ask them if Hermy could eat it even if he has Kidney's problem and how many times a week should I sprinkle Hermy's food with it. Joe answered that It has no negative effects on the kidneys and I should keep it sealed and store in a cold dry place (like the door of a refrigerator if I want it to last a year and he also told me to sprinkle Hermy's food 2-3 times a week . I am so glad it went through the custom .
> I was not sure if I should post the thread in Food and diet, Hermanns section or here, but since I just wanted to say ''WOOHOO I got the TNT'' I thought it would be ok in the OT Sections. Feel free to change it



Just curious, Did you get it with or without probiotics? I have read other threads, and I guess most feel to only get it if the tort is sick. Now that I'm aware of that word, I see it advertised in dog foods and yogurt. So now I wonder if it really may be good for all tortoises.

Anyone else have an opinion?


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## ChiKat (Jan 20, 2010)

Oo he said to store it in the fridge for it to last longer?! I didn't know that, I'll have to move Nelson's bag to the fridge.


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## Candy (Jan 20, 2010)

Oh my gosh a whole food vitamin for tortoises who would have ever thought it? This sounds wonderful have a lot of tortoise owners on her used it? Glad to see you got some for Hermy Issa we know what good care you take of him.


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## DoctorCosmonaut (Jan 20, 2010)

Do they ever have coupons there or free shipping if you spend a certain amount because the shipping starts at almost $12 for one little item.


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## Jacqui (Jan 20, 2010)

DoctorCosmonaut said:


> Do they ever have coupons there or free shipping if you spend a certain amount because the shipping starts at almost $12 for one little item.



Sometimes they do have free shipping. I know around November they did, because I stocked up on hay, bugs, and frog moss then.  You could always ask Joe when the next one might be.


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## DoctorCosmonaut (Jan 20, 2010)

Joe? Who is Joe?


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## Yvonne G (Jan 20, 2010)

Joe Heinen is the owner of Carolina Pet Supply.


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## BethyB1022 (Jan 20, 2010)

Jupiterannette said:


> that he will only want to eat the mazuri and nothing else...  he does sooooo good eating hay and weeds and greens.. do i really wanna mess with that.... i want a good back up... he does like the zoo med desert tort pellets but not enought ot desert his hay and greens!
> 
> http://www.carolinapetsupply.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=58
> 
> link to TNT





I bought a smaller amount of mazuri because I had read that most torts really like it. My sully doesn't appear to care for it at all, but then again he doesn't like pumpkin either, so maybe he's just weird.  I wouldn't worry too much that your tort would forgo all other food in favor of mazuri, but if you are nervous you could try only offering it once a week.

What he does love that is from carolina pet supply is the chopped hay salad style mix. I sprinkle it on his greens a few times a week and he always eats it right up. I got a sample of TNT (it accidentally shipped with my order and they said I didn't have to return it) and he appears to like it, but it is a little more spendy than repti-cal or cuttlebone. (But then again it includes much more than calcium)

I have been very satisfied with CPS's seed mixes too. I have used the broadleaf and the grazing tort mix to much satisfaction.


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## chadk (Jan 20, 2010)

A few notes on TNT....

You still need to supply calcium. Cuttlebone and\or powder.

Go with pro-biotics UNLESS there is a specific reason why you would not want to (on certain meds or something)

I feed the stuff sprinkeled on dampened greens (won't stick to dry). I feed my Russians, Sullies, boxies, bearded dragons, and water dragons with TNT sprinkled on. I also feed it to my feeders. Dubia roaches LOVE this stuff. For my leopard geckos, I have a few dubias hiding in their tanki usually. I sprinkle this on the tile floor in the tank and in seconds the dubia come out of hiding to nibble it up. Then of course the Leo's spot them and snatch them up


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## bettinge (Jan 20, 2010)

chadk said:


> A few notes on TNT....
> 
> You still need to supply calcium. Cuttlebone and\or powder.
> 
> ...



Wow, I never thought of feeding it to feeders, gotta try that soon. How about dusting feeders?


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## chadk (Jan 20, 2010)

Yes! That is how I feed my lizards and sometimes my snakes (just a tiny bit dusted on a rat....).

I should add that I have a plastic tub that is a mix of TNT, reptile vits, calc powder. I use that for just about everything - sprinkling on green, feeders, etc.


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## Isa (Jan 21, 2010)

bettinge said:


> Just curious, Did you get it with or without probiotics? I have read other threads, and I guess most feel to only get it if the tort is sick. Now that I'm aware of that word, I see it advertised in dog foods and yogurt. So now I wonder if it really may be good for all tortoises.
> 
> Anyone else have an opinion?



I got the one without probiotics because me too I heard that with probiotic should be given to a sick tortoises or a tortoise under a treatment or after a treatment of antibiotics.



Candy said:


> Oh my gosh a whole food vitamin for tortoises who would have ever thought it? This sounds wonderful have a lot of tortoise owners on her used it? Glad to see you got some for Hermy Issa we know what good care you take of him.



 I gave some to Hermy this morning and he liked it, I am not sure but I think I heard him singing '' I am TNT I am dynamite!!'' the song by AC/DC while eating it 



Jupiterannette said:


> ooooooooo I want some! so i could put this on his greens each day instead of the calcium w/ D3 or with it....
> 
> ok i ordered it.. a bit pricey but hes worth it!.. now i need to find a small amount of mazuri to try... im scared though..





I only give Hermy a couple of pieces during the weekend because he loves mazuri and after eating it, he snobs his greens, he looks at them and look at me and then walk on his food, just to show me that the greens is not what he wants lol .



ChiKat said:


> Oo he said to store it in the fridge for it to last longer?! I didn't know that, I'll have to move Nelson's bag to the fridge.



He said to put in in the door of the fridge since it is cold and dry 



chadk said:


> A few notes on TNT....
> 
> You still need to supply calcium. Cuttlebone and\or powder.
> 
> ...



O no, I just saw your post Chad. Maybe I should have bought the one with probiotic!


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## chadk (Jan 22, 2010)

From wiki:

Probiotics are live microorganisms thought to be healthy for the host organism. According to the currently adopted definition by FAO/WHO, probiotics are: "Live microorganisms which when administered in adequate amounts confer a health benefit on the host".[1] Lactic acid bacteria (LAB) and bifidobacteria are the most common types of microbes used as probiotics; but certain yeasts and bacilli may also be helpful. Probiotics are commonly consumed as part of fermented foods with specially added active live cultures; such as in yogurt, soy yogurt, or as dietary supplements.

Etymologically, the term appears to be a composite of the Latin preposition pro ("for") and the Greek adjective ÃŽÂ²ÃŽÂ¹Ãâ€°Ãâ€žÃŽÂ¹ÃŽÂºÃÅ’Ãâ€š (biotic), the latter deriving from the noun ÃŽÂ²ÃŽÂ¯ÃŽÂ¿Ãâ€š (bios, "life").[2]
At the start of the 20th century, probiotics were thought to beneficially affect the host by improving its intestinal microbial balance, thus inhibiting pathogens and toxin producing bacteria [3]. Today, specific health effects are being investigated and documented including alleviation of chronic intestinal inflammatory diseases,[4] prevention and treatment of pathogen-induced diarrhea,[5] urogenital infections,[6] and atopic diseases.[7]


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## Yvonne G (Jan 22, 2010)

chadk said:


> You still need to supply calcium. Cuttlebone and\or powder.



According to Joe at CPS, there is no need to supplement calcium when feeding TNT. I'm pretty sure that subject came up on one of his YAHOOgroup sites and that's what he said.


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## Isa (Jan 22, 2010)

Thanks for the info Chad.
Yvonne, do you know which group?


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## Yvonne G (Jan 22, 2010)

He has several, but I only belonged to the African tortoise group. So it must have been there.

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/African-Tortoise/join


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## Isa (Jan 22, 2010)

Thank you Yvonne


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## chadk (Jan 22, 2010)

emysemys said:


> chadk said:
> 
> 
> > You still need to supply calcium. Cuttlebone and\or powder.
> ...



Joes relies on cuttlebone and a well rounded whole food diet high in fiber and calcium (from leavy greens such as kale and others...). And he is mainly talking about Russian tortoises.

But you really need to look at your overall diet and see if you are feeding a good balance of those high calcium foods. My sullies feed mostly on grasses and weeds from my yard. My understanding is that here in the PNW, with all our rain, our soil (and plants) tends to be low in minerals, including calcium. So providing cuttlebone and a little dusting on greens now then is a good idea in my situation.


Here is a quote from Joe:

One of the most important supplements is calcium. If there is a good source of UVB as with tortoises kept outdoors, *a light dusting of the food with calcium daily is sufficient*. Indoors use phosphorous free calcium with D3 [assuming no UVB provided]. Cal Miner'al is a great product chelated (for better absorption) calcium and trace minerals.

However, Dusting with calcium is not without its own problems. While superficially it does seem to have benefit, it has its own problems. Too much calcium results in secondary deficiencies of zinc, copper and iodine, mal-absorption of essential fatty acids, and formation of calcium-containing bladder stones. 

*Instead I prefer to feed high calcium greens and keep cuttlebone available at all times.* This way the tortoise can regulate its own calcium intake. Cuttlebone is often ignored for long periods, but when extra calcium is needed such as with gravid females or a young tort experiencing a growth spurt, it will almost disappear overnight. 

Another supplement I use is TNT (Total Nutrition for TortoisesÃ¢â€žÂ¢) Nutritional Supplement from Carolina Pet Supply. This is a nutritionally balanced formula which provides the vitamins and minerals (very high in bio-available calcium) that are often lacking in the captive diet. ItÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s formulated from a variety of dehydrated and powdered flowers and weeds.

They also have wide variety of organic sees, powdered hibiscus flowers (Roselle) and cactus powder (Opuntia). Both are a natural source of vitamins and minerals.

Also of use is probiotics. Most of our animals come to us with abundance of parasites and disturbed gut flora (the good bacteria that live in the intestines). Supplementing with probiotics goes a long way to restoring normal gut function. iFlora from Sedona Labs is one of the best probiotics used for reptiles.

Here is a study he references:

Vet Rec. 2005 Jun 25;156(26):831-5. 
Influence of the calcium content of the diet offered to leopard tortoises
(Geochelone pardalis).
Fledelius B, Jorgensen GW, Jensen HE, Brimer L.

Laboratory of Toxicology, Department of Veterinary Pathobiology, Royal
Veterinary and Agricultural University, 9 Ridebanevej, dk-1870 Frederiksberg C,
Copenhagen, Denmark.

Twenty-four juvenile leopard tortoises were divided into four groups of six; one
group was fed a basic low-calcium feed for six months, and the other three
groups were fed the same basic diet supplemented with one, three and nine times
the amount of calcium recommended as a supplement to the diet of reptiles. The
animals' bone mineral content and bone mineral density were estimated by dual
energy x-ray absorptiometry, and blood samples were taken at the start and at
the conclusion of the study. One tortoise from each group was examined
postmortem. There was a clear depletion of calcium in the body of the tortoises
receiving no calcium supplement, *and the shell of the tortoises receiving the
recommended calcium supplement did not calcify to the extent expected. The
tortoises that received three times the recommended calcium supplementation had
the highest growth rate and were thriving.* However, metastatic calcifications
were observed postmortem in the two groups that were given the highest doses of
calcium.

Publication Types:
Clinical Trial
Randomized Controlled Trial

PMID: 15980135 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]


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## DemonDrug95 (Jan 25, 2010)

what is tnt?


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## nearpass (Jan 25, 2010)

DemonDrug95 said:


> what is tnt?



The first few comments of this thread explain it pretty well.


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