# Cement and fiberglass question....



## ZEROPILOT (Feb 19, 2015)

One of the "UP AND RUNNING" wading pools that my Red Foot tortoises use started to leak water. It is a free formed cement pool that holds about 12 gallons of water and is about 6" deep at its deepest. It is lined with fiberglass resin. On further inspection, I noticed that the fiberglass and cement had separated. It was like a plastic bowl sitting in a cement depression. Yesterday, I re poured some new resin and placed more stones in it for traction. My question is: What happened? Maybe I didn't wait for the cement to cure enough the first time and it contracted? It's been in use for over six months.


----------



## tortdad (Feb 19, 2015)

Sounds like there was a bonding issue between the the resin and cement. It could have been caused by not letting the cement fully cure (which takes 28 days to fully do) or not cleaning the cement good enough. Dirt and dust will break the bond. Is that resin designed to be a water stop? I didn't line my cement pond with anything.


----------



## HLogic (Feb 19, 2015)

It will likely separate regardless of what you do. The two materials have different coefficients of thermal expansion and as the temperature changes this difference will work to break the bond between the fiberglass and cement. Consider replacing the pond with a cement/tile mastic mix. It is more durable than plain cement and is waterproof. http://www.tadege.com/concreteponddiy.htm (about 2/3 down the page - search for "tile")..


----------



## ZEROPILOT (Feb 19, 2015)

Thanks. Yes. It was to waterproof it. Will Mastic bond to cement? Do you know what type spray in liner is used in the link? I've never heard of it.


----------



## HLogic (Feb 19, 2015)

Yes but it is better to do so before it is cured. If it is not too much trouble, I would consider replacing the existing structure with one using the mix.


----------



## tortdad (Feb 19, 2015)

There are plenty of products you can use to seal concrete. Just do a google search for epoxy coatings.


----------



## tortadise (Feb 19, 2015)

HLogic said:


> Yes but it is better to do so before it is cured. If it is not too much trouble, I would consider replacing the existing structure with one using the mix.


Agreed. Fiberglass resin is not suitable for applying to concrete for a lasting satisfactory result. I'd recommend either removing the fiberglass and route and epoxy the break and seal the concrete, let it cure and use a concrete sealer. Or just remove entirely and pour a new pond.


----------



## ZEROPILOT (Feb 19, 2015)

After the fiberglass comes loose, I can remove it like a plastic bowl in one piece. I'd used fiberglass because I have quite a lot of it. (Race fairings,etc. for motorcycles.) The cement had only set for three days before I poured in the resin. If it doesn't last longer this time, I'll re do the whole thing differently. 
Thanks again.


----------



## Loohan (Feb 19, 2015)

tortdad said:


> There are plenty of products you can use to seal concrete. Just do a google search for epoxy coatings.



Epoxy largely consists of BPA...


----------



## tortdad (Feb 19, 2015)

Loohan said:


> Epoxy largely consists of BPA...


 There are several eco friendly epoxy coatings with no BPA.


----------



## tortdad (Feb 19, 2015)

Anything you put down has to bond to the concrete and keep water from penetrating the top layer of concrete. 

Second question for you. Did you install a vapor barrier underneath your concrete? If you didn't then nothing will stop ground water from soaking into the concrete from the underneath side and still breaking your concrete/coating bond. 

Why did you even coat it?


----------



## Loohan (Feb 19, 2015)

tortdad said:


> There are several eco friendly epoxy coatings with no BPA.


Having trouble finding much on google. A couple brands with eco-green rhetoric, even claiming to be "non-toxic" or BPA-free, but BPA is only 1 form of bisphenol. Often, in some products (not sure about epoxy), other variations of bisphenol are used that are just as bad, so that the manufacturer can claim "BPA-free".


----------



## tortdad (Feb 19, 2015)

Loohan said:


> Having trouble finding much on google. A couple brands with eco-green rhetoric, even claiming to be "non-toxic" or BPA-free, but BPA is only 1 form of bisphenol. Often, in some products (not sure about epoxy), other variations of bisphenol are used that are just as bad, so that the manufacturer can claim "BPA-free".



And the sad part is that this is usually the case. These manufactures just find other chemicals to use and claim it's good. There are expound coatings that are designed to be used in fish aquariums so I'd say if it is good for fish it's good for a tortoise pond


----------



## ZEROPILOT (Apr 12, 2019)

Update.
My fiberglass over cement pools lasted almost 5 years in the direct Florida sun.
Not too bad. I'd say.
This afternoon I re did the pools with one quart of new resin in each pool.
This is the smaller 3.5 gallon pool.
I'm calling them a success. Just not a perfect and permanent way to go.


----------



## Ray--Opo (Apr 13, 2019)

ZEROPILOT said:


> Update.
> My fiberglass over cement pools lasted almost 5 years in the direct Florida sun.
> Not too bad. I'd say.
> This afternoon I re did the pools with one quart of new resin in each pool.
> ...


So you just build a form and pour in the concrete. Or do you make a pit you like in the soil and pour right where you want it in the enclosure?


----------



## ZEROPILOT (Apr 13, 2019)

One is a free formed hole in the ground.
(The one on the left in the video) it just had more mix poured in and then a brick apron was attached to it and glassed over.
The other one is made entirely out of cement bricks with mortar spread over it and a hump and a ramp added to the front to keep the water in and help tortoises get in and out.


----------

