# PLEASE HELP IDENTIFYING MY SPECIES OF TURTLE OR TORTOISE



## DjAyy (Oct 16, 2016)

can somebody please help? Is this a turtle or a tortoise? If you know please tell me what species and how you know thank you.


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## DjAyy (Oct 16, 2016)

What is the difference between turtles and tortoises?


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## Big Charlie (Oct 16, 2016)

It looks like a desert tortoise to me. Wait for confirmation.

The difference between tortoises and turtles is that turtles live in water some of the time and tortoises live on land.


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## DjAyy (Oct 16, 2016)

Ok thanks. Any info on this would be great if you can positively identify it. How to take care of it, diet, tips.. I really want to take good care of it.


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## cmacusa3 (Oct 16, 2016)

DjAyy said:


> View attachment 189637
> View attachment 189638
> can somebody please help? Is this a turtle or a tortoise? If you know please tell me what species and how you know thank you.




Yes it's a tortoise. Where are you located?


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## DjAyy (Oct 16, 2016)

Also how do you know its a tortoise? My farther in law says its an eastern box turtle.


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## DjAyy (Oct 16, 2016)

Florida


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## DjAyy (Oct 16, 2016)

Ohh ok and its most likely a desert tortoise?


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## cmacusa3 (Oct 16, 2016)

DjAyy said:


> Also how do you know its a tortoise? My farther in law says its an eastern box turtle.


No it's not an eastern box turtle, definitely a tortoise. I don't think it's a desert either. . Possibly a gopher tortoise. Pics not really good on my phone though


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## DjAyy (Oct 16, 2016)

Ok thanks. If you can positively identify it it would really be appreciated. And any tips on how to properly take care of it to make sure this little guy has a nice long life.


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## cmacusa3 (Oct 16, 2016)

DjAyy said:


> Ok thanks. If you can positively identify it it would really be appreciated. And any tips on how to properly take care of it to make sure this little guy has a nice long life.


Someone will be able to positively identify it soon and then they can point you to the caresheets. If not soon, when I can get to a computer I can see the pic better. Did you find it?


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## DjAyy (Oct 16, 2016)

no, a friend of mine couldent take care of it anymore i told him id take it. i just want to be able to take good care of it.


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## DjAyy (Oct 16, 2016)

ive searched all over the internet and i came to the same conclusion as you. it is extremely close looking to the desert tortoise.


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## Big Charlie (Oct 16, 2016)

Since you are in Florida, I'm betting it is a gopher or Florida tortoise, which is a type of desert tortoise found there.


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## DjAyy (Oct 16, 2016)

wow, i think it is a gopher... it is striking.


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## Tom (Oct 16, 2016)

Gopher tortoises are federally protected. It is illegal to possess this tortoise.

Here in CA we have to get a permit to keep our species of Gopherus. I'm not sure what your laws are in FL.


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## Kathryn Shults (Oct 17, 2016)

DjAyy said:


> View attachment 189637
> View attachment 189638
> can somebody please help? Is this a turtle or a tortoise? If you know please tell me what species and how you know thank you.


I believe it is a Leopard Tortoise.


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## Berkeley (Oct 17, 2016)

Kathryn Shults said:


> I believe it is a Leopard Tortoise.





Tom said:


> Gopher tortoises are federally protected. It is illegal to possess this tortoise.
> 
> Here in CA we have to get a permit to keep our species of Gopherus. I'm not sure what your laws are in FL.



Nope, Tom is right. It is a gopher tortoise, Gopherus polyphemus. And in Florida it is illegal to keep it. The tortoise needs to be released where it was found.

--Berkeley


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## Tidgy's Dad (Oct 17, 2016)

I , too, though i am not an expert, think this is a Gopherus. 
Releasing it where it was found, if the place is safe, may seem necessary, but it if not, or if it is a captive bred tortoise it will probably die if released. 
Difficult.


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## cmacusa3 (Oct 17, 2016)

Berkeley said:


> Nope, Tom is right. It is a gopher tortoise, Gopherus polyphemus. And in Florida it is illegal to keep it. The tortoise needs to be released where it was found.
> 
> --Berkeley


The problem is they said someone gave it to them that couldn't care for it any longer, I don't think it can just be released now.


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## Tom (Oct 17, 2016)

A tortoise that has been brought into captivity cannot be released back into the wild. An introduced disease could wipe out the entire wild population.


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## Tom (Oct 17, 2016)

Tidgy's Dad said:


> or if it is a captive bred tortoise it will probably die if released.



Why do you think this? Have you done this?

I ask because I don't believe that to be the case. Tortoises operate on so much instinct and can survive long periods without food and water, plus they have mobile protection from predators wherever they go. I think a head started CB baby that is native to an area and deposited into a suitable area within its natural range would stand a very good chance of not only surviving, but thriving. I would cite Tomas Diagne's sulcata repopulation efforts in Senegal, and the extensive work done in this area with Galapagos tortoises. On one island they have been incubating and head starting eggs to get them past the stage where introduced rats are a threat, and then reintroducing them since the mid 80's. They are finding that the head-started CB babies are actually doing better than the older wild tortoises on that island and growing to a much larger size. The problem seems to be the opposite of your assertion above.


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## Gillian M (Oct 17, 2016)

A very warm welcome to the forum ! 

Sorry, don't know what species your cute tort is. Please read the "Beginners Mistakes" Thread and keep your tort warm, making sure there's enough humidity.  Give your tortoise daily soaks in warm water so as to avoid pyramiding and dehydration. 

Any pics of his enclosure?


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## Tidgy's Dad (Oct 17, 2016)

Tom said:


> Why do you think this? Have you done this?
> 
> I ask because I don't believe that to be the case. Tortoises operate on so much instinct and can survive long periods without food and water, plus they have mobile protection from predators wherever they go. I think a head started CB baby that is native to an area and deposited into a suitable area within its natural range would stand a very good chance of not only surviving, but thriving. I would cite Tomas Diagne's sulcata repopulation efforts in Senegal, and the extensive work done in this area with Galapagos tortoises. On one island they have been incubating and head starting eggs to get them past the stage where introduced rats are a threat, and then reintroducing them since the mid 80's. They are finding that the head-started CB babies are actually doing better than the older wild tortoises on that island and growing to a much larger size. The problem seems to be the opposite of your assertion above.


Hello, Tom.
Am i next on your list of people to attack and force off the forum ?Not a problem as i'm not about much now, anyway.
You see, the thing is your first question is quite valid.
The second is stupid and insulting. You know perfectly well that i don't go about reintroducing tortoises into the wild and seeing if they die or not.
This is how you do it, proper question couched by an insult and then say I never meant anything. Clever attacks on anyone who might not agree in some regard to your particular and extensive experience of tortoises. You wind them up, play the innocent and then they go ballistic and get banned or just leave the forum.
Okay, question two. No, i have not done this with tortoises. My Tidgy is a rescue and is very used to human companionship and lifestyle, she is mainly fed by hand (I do know) and i am quite convinced will not last terribly long in the wild. Am I going to experiment with her or the other dozen or so torts i help look after here ? No.
It's like the coiled bulb thing that you are so keen on , or the humidity, i will not try that out on tortoises to see the results, you may have had these experiences but i won't risk it, trust your experiences and those of the others that I have read about.
However, I have a doctorate in conservation and have released many other animals in the wild which were captive bred. Usually, the outcome is not good, and i am talking about years of experience here. Tortoises, indeed, have instinct, but you should know that instinct is not a key to a guaranteed survival. The natural mortality rate of tortoises (and most other species) is horrendous, they live longer if kept well in captivity. Instinct will not necessarily protect them from a predator they have not encountered before, they may not be protected or immune to/ from the natural parasites in the area and won't know what is safe to eat ,etc.
First question:
Your belief is interesting, But clearly not based on empirical results other than the one or two examples you mentioned, which are rare and exceptional cases (though nice). You only ever take the examples you like, never see the broad picture, so i can quote you https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Species_reintroduction, which shows some of the pros and cons (ok, it's wiki, I know) , which talks about predators but is still interesting,http://www.wildlifeextra.com/go/news/animal-release739.html#cr, similar, http://www.bornfree.org.uk/campaigns/zoo-check/uk-zoos/zoo-conservation/do-zoos-help-conservation/, this one talks about non carniverous species, and of course i can list more until the cows come home.
In my experience with such animals as tigers, gibbons and elephants (many others too) a massive percentage die very quickly after release, even into a safe natural environment; if they are captive bred, they have almost no chance, if released from the wild after capture or injury, a much better, but still low chance.
There are exceptions, as with your examples, but I would NEVER advocate the release of a captive bred tortoise into the wild. The Galapagos islands are virtually predator (and human) free. The USA is not. It isn't a fair comparison.
People , do not release your captive breds into the wild.


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## Yvonne G (Oct 17, 2016)

Kathryn Shults said:


> I believe it is a Leopard Tortoise.



It definitely IS a gopher tortoise - protected in Florida


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## Yvonne G (Oct 17, 2016)

Besides that, it's against the law. This tortoise needs to be turned over to the authorities or a rescue center.


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## Tom (Oct 17, 2016)

Tidgy's Dad said:


> Hello, Tom.
> Am i next on your list of people to attack and force off the forum ?Not a problem as i'm not about much now, anyway.
> You see, the thing is your first question is quite valid.
> The second is stupid and insulting. You know perfectly well that i don't go about reintroducing tortoises into the wild and seeing if they die or not.
> ...



Whaaaaaa??? If it was April I'd call April fools on you. Since its not April, you win for biggest over reaction on the internet for the day.

I'm just making conversation with a forum friend. Well I thought you were a friend, but apparently you have other ideas of me that I had no idea about… I was genuinely asking if you had first hand experience releasing CB animals back into the wild, and it appears my questions was not so far off base because you DO have such experience. I was trying to engage you in conversation, not attack you or run you off. Sheesh. Lighten up man. I like you. Why would I want to run you off? Did you not know that?

In any case, I don't disagree with you about releasing mammals or birds or other animals that need a fair amount of "training" and raising by their wild parents, but I can think of so many examples of reptiles insects and amphibians that were CB and released into the wild and thrive to the point of becoming and invasive pest species. RES, Iguanas, pythons, cane toads, etc… Can you give me some examples of failed reptile re-introduction attempts, just for the sake of friendly conversation?


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## Tidgy's Dad (Oct 17, 2016)

Possibly an overreaction, (it's one word) , but I doubt it's the biggest on the internet, though maybe in the Tortoise Forum for the day. 
i am sorry if you are offended, though, obviously you will be, but as i said, your second question was badly phrased.
This is exactly what I said . 
You insult people and then say, "No, I didn't mean it". 
Maybe you don't, but it comes over like that.
Not sure what 'run you off' means. 
Regarding your friendly conversation, i am not, as i said, personally aware of many examples of failed reptile introduction other than our crocodiles.
We kept crocodiles in our reserves and goodness they could breed. 
(here's another unpopularity vote for Adam.)
But anyway, we 'culled' some of them and made them into handbags and shoes to finance the bigger project. I know, people, but we got very little money from the government. The project ended with reserves all over Thailand, fifty tigers to hundreds etc. My legacy there, the King, whom i met twice and has this week, sadly died, personally thanked me for the work i did for his country.And I got shot, three times, but one of them was me.
Goodness, I don't usually speak of this.
Anyway, we released crocodiles back into the river systems and before long they were spreading out along the river systems in the country and eating the farmer's goats and sheep and things. And one of my friends got killed. That's reptiles, don't release crocs into the wild, i'm aware this is not torts , but you did specify reptiles, I've no personal experience of releasing torts into the wild, as I stated but http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-news-from-elsewhere-28658569.
Yes , i know this is invasive and there are hundreds of other examples, but ecosystems adapt to the absence of species. 
Do you want to put your native species back where they belong in the middle of LA for example ?


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## Tom (Oct 17, 2016)

Tidgy's Dad said:


> Possibly an overreaction, (it's one word) , but I doubt it's the biggest on the internet, though maybe in the Tortoise Forum for the day.
> i am sorry if you are offended, though, obviously you will be, but as i said, your second question was badly phrased.
> This is exactly what I said .
> You insult people and then say, "No, I didn't mean it".
> ...



I'm not offended in the least. Just surprised that you thought I would want to attack you and force (aka run…) you off of the forum. Hope we are all good and on the same page now.

Anyhow… So it sounds like your re-introduced CB crocs help to prove my point that CB reptiles, to include tortoises, often survive when re-released back into the wild. Which is why I started the conversation in regards to your initial comment on this thread that re-released CB tortoises were not likely to survive. I think they would be likely to survive, but I think we all agree that in most cases, captive animals, whether CB or WC should _not_ be released into the wild.


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## Tidgy's Dad (Oct 17, 2016)

Tom said:


> I'm not offended in the least. Just surprised that you thought I would want to attack you and force (aka run…) you off of the forum. Hope we are all good and on the same page now.
> 
> Anyhow… So it sounds like your re-introduced CB crocs help to prove my point that CB reptiles, to include tortoises, often survive when re-released back into the wild. Which is why I started the conversation in regards to your initial comment on this thread that re-released CB tortoises were not likely to survive. I think they would be likely to survive, but I think we all agree that in most cases, captive animals, whether CB or WC should _not_ be released into the wild.


Quite right.
Same page I hope.
I have said that you are the forum's most valuable asset and stand by that.
But sometimes a little insensitive ?
However, i did overreact, and I am sorry for that.
I'm a bit stressed at the moment but it is not an excuse to be rude.
Sorry, again.


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## Tidgy's Dad (Oct 17, 2016)

Tom said:


> I'm not offended in the least. Just surprised that you thought I would want to attack you and force (aka run…) you off of the forum. Hope we are all good and on the same page now.
> 
> Anyhow… So it sounds like your re-introduced CB crocs help to prove my point that CB reptiles, to include tortoises, often survive when re-released back into the wild. Which is why I started the conversation in regards to your initial comment on this thread that re-released CB tortoises were not likely to survive. I think they would be likely to survive, but I think we all agree that in most cases, captive animals, whether CB or WC should _not_ be released into the wild.


Oh, and they ate most of the local turtle population, so fifty-fifty.


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## Tom (Oct 17, 2016)

Tidgy's Dad said:


> Oh, and they ate most of the local turtle population, so fifty-fifty.



Well the re-itroduction was successful for the crocs at least… 


Tidgy's Dad said:


> Quite right.
> Same page I hope.
> I have said that you are the forum's most valuable asset and stand by that.
> But sometimes a little insensitive ?
> ...



Definitely blunt and sometimes insensitive for sure. Some people prefer the direct approach and other people seem to like their info sugar coated. I'm bad at sugar coating. At least I seem to be bad at it in the typed word. Thanks for talking this out and I'm sorry for my part in the misunderstanding too.

Back to tortoise conversation now my friend...


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## Tidgy's Dad (Oct 17, 2016)

Tom said:


> Well the re-itroduction was successful for the crocs at least…
> 
> 
> Definitely blunt and sometimes insensitive for sure. Some people prefer the direct approach and other people seem to like their info sugar coated. I'm bad at sugar coating. At least I seem to be bad at it in the typed word. Thanks for talking this out and I'm sorry for my part in the misunderstanding too.
> ...


Quite right. 
Done, my friend.


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## Tidgy's Dad (Oct 17, 2016)

Oh, and I'm very sorry, DjAyy for making a mess of your thread, but just to explain, we have disagreements on here, but are still able to stay friends! 
Tom is right about most things and has far more experience than I. 
But don't put it back into the wild.
Which, despite the comments above,is what everyone agrees on.


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## Tidgy's Dad (Oct 17, 2016)

And I would like to publicly apologize to Tom for unnecessary remarks. 
Sorry, OP, and everyone else.


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## Berkeley (Oct 18, 2016)

Abramsmytankturtle said:


> The problem is they said someone gave it to them that couldn't care for it any longer, I don't think it can just be released now.



I see that comment now, but if it is just the one tortoise- and I am betting it was just the one tortoise at the house- it is probably just fine to release it where it was found. The friend he got it from will know where it came from. It obviously has not been in captivity that long. On the extremely small chance it did pick something up, what disease could get introduced into a wild gopher population that isn't (or hasn't) already been found in them?

And it will adjust back to wild living just fine. At the very least, it should be turned over to FWC (Florida Wildlife and Conservation Commission)- it is still illegal to keep one without a permit.

--Berkeley


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