# Stunted growth.



## Anyfoot (Jul 22, 2017)

I've had a male Brazilian now for over 3yrs, in this 3 yrs he hasn't grown more than 0.5" on the SCL. He's now around 8" SCL and mature. This guy is extremely pyramided, I had a female around the same size and in a 3 yr period she has grown around 3", however although she is pyramided, she's no where near as bad as the male. 
It got me thinking, Because the male is pyramided and the bone growth has gone down at an angle instead of across will he never be as big as he should be, in actual fact although he only measures 8" SCL if he had grown smooth he may have been around 10" SCL and peaking his maximum size and this is why I'm not seeing him grow with any pace. 
I roughly measure one of my torts(and I mean roughly, the lights were just about to go off so I had to be quick). The angle of pyramid was around 40° and the flat of the angle measured approx 0.75". 
In these sketches the thicker lines are the areola.
I'm hoping my feeble sketches get across what I'm asking. If he was smooth would the angled line at 0.75" have become the horizontal lines at the same length making him overall a lot bigger. 
Thoughts anyone please. 
@Markw84


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## wellington (Jul 22, 2017)

Wow, very interesting. Great question. What your saying makes great sense. Will be watching for all the thoughts.


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## Alaskamike (Jul 22, 2017)

If I understand what you are saying - if you could flatten him out smooth, the overall distance would be much longer. 

Kinda like a rippled piece of paper , ironed out. 

I do think you are correct. If I understand the layering of carotene that forms a shell. The angled vertical layers are still growth. 

However , if you take the weight of both & compare , it might also tell you something about bone density. In extreme pyramiding cases , with accompanying MBD , there is a porous bone formation ( kinda like styrofoam ) which makes the bone light(er). 

I'd be interested in the weight comparison.


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## wellington (Jul 22, 2017)

Alaskamike said:


> If I understand what you are saying - if you could flatten him out smooth, the overall distance would be much longer.
> 
> Kinda like a rippled piece of paper , ironed out.
> 
> ...


My understanding is pyramiding does not go hand in hand with MBD. Your tort can be pyramided without having MBD. So not sure how or why you are figuring MBD into it? Explain please.


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## Alaskamike (Jul 22, 2017)

I'm just saying , that IF MBD was part of it , the tort would be lighter due to the porous effect in the creation & bones. 

I've seen crosse sections of tortoise shell & bones that clearly show this. So , while the shell may be thicker , it is at the same time lighter ( than healthy shell would be. ). 

I'm NOT saying all pyramided tortoises have MBD , if I implied that I apologize.


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## wellington (Jul 22, 2017)

Alaskamike said:


> I'm just saying , that IF MBD was part of it , the tort would be lighter due to the porous effect in the creation & bones.
> 
> I've seen crosse sections of tortoise shell & bones that clearly show this. So , while the shell may be thicker , it is at the same time lighter ( than healthy shell would be. ).
> 
> I'm NOT saying all pyramided tortoises have MBD , if I implied that I apologize.


No need for apologies. Just making sure. I now understand too why you mentioned MBD. I didn't before. Thanks for clearing that up for me.


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