# Mycoplasma - It is really that common?



## Louise C (Sep 4, 2014)

Hi everyone,

My first tortoise, Henry the baby Russian, sadly passed away about three weeks now....I have had the test results back from the vets which show he had a mycoplasma infection. I questioned the vet (specialist reptile vet at university clinic who rescues torts) about how he could of caught this infection and she was 100% that it had to have been transmitted from another tortoise. They cannot catch it from their mothers through the egg so he must have mixed with another infected tortoise or the husbandry where he came from meant he had used feeding/water bowls also used by infected tortoise.

Now I know this is one of those illnesses where the infected tortoise may not show symptoms for a long time so to give benefit of doubt I e-mailed the breeder to confirm the diagnosis in the hope they would use the info to take action to prevent further infections. (I had been in contact previously to ask further info on my tort and they were very friendly). Well, I've had no response back from them this time!

The breeder is also a specialist reptile pet store but they do specialise in captive breeding of several types of tortoise and have been in business for 30 years.

What I want to know is, am I expecting too much in wanting a response from the breeder? Are they compelled to take action knowing their stock could be compromised or is Mycoplasma such a common ailment that people are supposed to just take accept it as known risk when buying a tortoise?

I just can't help feeling sorry for all the other baby torts who may be suffering from this and also the owners, who like me expect to buy a healthy animal and have to go through lengthy vet treatment and possible heartbreak when their pet dies.

Many thanks X


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## ascott (Sep 4, 2014)

Was this a captive bred/born tortoise?


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## Louise C (Sep 5, 2014)

Hi Ascott, Yes he was captive bred. The breeder has been breeding Russians for 30 years so have all come from captive stock. I know they do have other breeds such as Sulcata's etc and not sure about them being 100% captive bred but I didn't think that different breeds would be mixed especially by an experienced breeder /specialist.


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## Kate (Sep 5, 2014)

You have every right to expect at least a response from them. I'm very sorry for your loss, & I hope they get back in touch. Contact them again, maybe with a statement from the vet, explaining possible paths of transmission?


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## Louise C (Sep 5, 2014)

Thanks Kate, I will do that. If I'd been buying a pedigree dog then I would definitely be able to take action to at least get a refund if they had sold animals that were ill on purchase but it doesn't seem to be the way with tortoises. I'm not expecting anything like this I would just like to hope the breeder (who boasts they are no 1 in UK!) would take action on the back of my e-mail to prevent further transmission in his stock. I think the lack of response leads to me believe otherwise which is not good.


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## Yvonne G (Sep 5, 2014)

I think you should move on and not try to contact them again. They obviously don't want to discuss it with you, or admit any fault in the matter. You have alerted them as to a problem they might have and not its up to them to do something about it. Any further contact you might have will just annoy them and won't get you the results you're seeking.


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## AmRoKo (Sep 5, 2014)

Wow, this is horrible sorry this happened to you and your baby tort. 

Can you post who the company is so that UK tortoise owners here can avoid them?


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## Abdulla6169 (Sep 5, 2014)

AmRoKo said:


> Wow, this is horrible sorry this happened to you and your baby tort.
> 
> Can you post who the company is so that UK tortoise owners here can avoid them?


I am very sorry for your loss. I second AmRoKo's suggestion. If one tortoise had it, it is likely that there will be many more with this disease.


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## Louise C (Sep 5, 2014)

I really wanted the breeder to get in touch with me just to reassure me that they would take action to prevent further infection not to get money off them so I'm disappointed I haven't had any response. Yvonne, I agree with you that they won't now contact me - I guess they are putting their money before their animals' welfare!

Regards "outing" the company - I suppose in the absence of any assurances from the breeder then I have no choice but to do this. It's the Tortoise Centre aka Wilton Pet Centre in Basildon, Essex.


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## AmRoKo (Sep 6, 2014)

Louise C said:


> I really wanted the breeder to get in touch with me just to reassure me that they would take action to prevent further infection not to get money off them so I'm disappointed I haven't had any response. Yvonne, I agree with you that they won't now contact me - I guess they are putting their money before their animals' welfare!
> 
> Regards "outing" the company - I suppose in the absence of any assurances from the breeder then I have no choice but to do this. It's the Tortoise Centre aka Wilton Pet Centre in Basildon, Essex.



Yeah if I knew a company had this horrible problem and they didn't seem to care and only wanted to make a buck I would totally out them hardcore. They had their chance to get back to you, to apologize/refund- assure you that they would take necessary procedures to make sure none of their other animals have this but instead they chose to ignore you and this problem so far. Thank you and I'm very sorry you had to go through this and your poor tortie didn't make it.


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## Louise C (Sep 7, 2014)

HieEveryone....finally got a call from the breeder (not sure if he'd read this forum!) and he said he'd never encountered the Mycoplasma before and has not heard back from any other purchasers about infection. He was certain his biosecurity measures within his own site were sound but does have some hatchlings supplied by other breeders for sale so potentially could be a problem there. He said he would ask his suppliers to check their systems in place and would mention the potential infection of mycoplasma if any of his customers reported tortoises with similar symptoms.

I am pretty satisfied with the guy's attitude and assurances so this is me retracting my earlier comments about the company and I hope they are able to prevent further infections and save tortoises.

I suppose the warning regards potential infection will still be valid for any tortoises from the South East England at this time as the source of infection could not be located and possibly could come from any number of breeders from the area. If your tortoise is from this area and gets sick then be sure to mention Mycoplasma to the vet as proper treatment could be the difference between life and death!


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## AmRoKo (Sep 7, 2014)

Louise C said:


> HieEveryone....finally got a call from the breeder (not sure if he'd read this forum!) and he said he'd never encountered the Mycoplasma before and has not heard back from any other purchasers about infection. He was certain his biosecurity measures within his own site were sound but does have some hatchlings supplied by other breeders for sale so potentially could be a problem there. He said he would ask his suppliers to check their systems in place and would mention the potential infection of mycoplasma if any of his customers reported tortoises with similar symptoms.
> 
> I am pretty satisfied with the guy's attitude and assurances so this is me retracting my earlier comments about the company and I hope they are able to prevent further infections and save tortoises.
> 
> I suppose the warning regards potential infection will still be valid for any tortoises from the South East England at this time as the source of infection could not be located and possibly could come from any number of breeders from the area. If your tortoise is from this area and gets sick then be sure to mention Mycoplasma to the vet as proper treatment could be the difference between life and death!



This is good news! Glad he got back to you about this and seems like he cares about this problem.


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## laney (Oct 24, 2015)

I live not far from that pet store and avoid it like the plague. When I first went in for a look they had very crowded tanks and huge walled water bowls, there was a young tort head first in one so I ran to one of the store workers who didn't seem to care, I got a little worked up as it couldn't get out and could have drowned so they reluctantly opened the tank and moved it.
I don't think they get much info on their 'captive' babies as before the above happened I was asking about hatch dates and they didn't have a clue. When I later got my baby sully from a local breeder she told me that that store was trying to buy all her babies to sell in their store for a few quid each. 
They hold a lot of torts, I find it hard to believe one had mycoplasma and none of the other 10-20 in with it didn't catch it. Unfortunately it's one of those things that the symptoms don't always show and will just spread and spread 
I'm sorry to hear ur baby got it, I have torts with it and it's not nice when it flares up


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## dmmj (Oct 24, 2015)

I highly doubt you'll ever hear back from the breeder don't get your hopes up about that. I doubt the breeder even knows whether any of his tortoises have it or not. to be honest I don't trust most pet store breeders they usually only want money. this is a very contagious microorganism spreads through mucus blood and semen and is about 100% infectious. it weakens the tortoise. no cure of course and a tortoise has to be kept in quarantine forever so it doesn't spread. very sorry for your loss my condolences.


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## pepsiandjac (Oct 24, 2015)

Louise C said:


> I really wanted the breeder to get in touch with me just to reassure me that they would take action to prevent further infection not to get money off them so I'm disappointed I haven't had any response. Yvonne, I agree with you that they won't now contact me - I guess they are putting their money before their animals' welfare!
> 
> Regards "outing" the company - I suppose in the absence of any assurances from the breeder then I have no choice but to do this. It's the Tortoise Centre aka Wilton Pet Centre in Basildon, Essex.


Thats Rick Wiltons shop ,they are a huge company.They did have a bad rep a few ago but i thought they had sorted that out,they breed and sell thousands of tortoises a year


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## Anyfoot (Oct 24, 2015)

This is a sad story.
In a case like this how should the reptile shop keeper deal with it? Does he have every tort checked out? If lets say 10 torts are diagnosed to have mycoplasma, what does he do about it?

Whats the correct procedure in this instance?


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## wellington (Oct 24, 2015)

Louise C said:


> I really wanted the breeder to get in touch with me just to reassure me that they would take action to prevent further infection not to get money off them so I'm disappointed I haven't had any response. Yvonne, I agree with you that they won't now contact me - I guess they are putting their money before their animals' welfare!
> 
> Regards "outing" the company - I suppose in the absence of any assurances from the breeder then I have no choice but to do this. It's the Tortoise Centre aka Wilton Pet Centre in Basildon, Essex.



So sorry about this. I disagree with Yvonne. I would not stop trying to get ahold of them and finding out what if anything they a
we're doing about it and if they are mixing species, just to know for sure how the one you had was being kept. They may not have even known they had it. Also, for what ever reason, they may not have gotten your first message. If you just let it go, they win and keep making money while selling sick animals. 
It's always sad when a family pet is lost. It's also very sad how ma y people will put money before a living thing.


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## Louise C (Oct 24, 2015)

Thanks everyone for reading and replying. I did get to speak to the owner a few weeks after poor Henry died and he said he'd never heard of mycoplasma before (strange for a tortoise dealer!) and from what he'd read he didn't think it was that serious (only causes cold like symptoms in people). I got the impression he was not really going to do anything about it. I just feel sorry for all the "tank buddies" that were sold with Henry and wonder if any of them are still alive really. I occasionally read on this forum someone in Britain with a sick baby tort and wonder if they have this....

Luckily my new Hermans Tort Pedro is going from strength to strength although I'm a bit of a paranoid mother him! I got him as a re-home when he was 3 years old and he was originally from a local reptile store in Edinburgh. I've seen their set ups and their tanks looks quite similar fitted to mine just a little smaller. Also they only tend to have just one clutch of tortoises in the store each summer so they don't mix breeds/clutches together. I think the breeders are local enthusiasts too. I would definitely urge new keepers to go local but the lure of these online stores which promise "expert" handling attracts the first timers (like it did me!).


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## dmmj (Oct 24, 2015)

like most things it affects the young and the old worse then the young and healthy. It's probably spreading like wildfire in his pens. I suspect there is going to be a lot of sick and dying tortoises out there soon


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## deadheadvet (Oct 25, 2015)

Mycoplasma is a very tough bug. It spreads through a group of tortoises but some will be sub clinical and some will be outright sick. Some species seem to be more sensitive to it. Star Tortoises are notorious for carrying Mycoplasma. Just about impossible to rid in an affected tortoise. Once it gets up in the nasal turbinates, can't get rid of it. It can be kept under control, but then you are stuck with a carrier. There is an excellent PCR for Mycoplasma available ta the University of Florida Zoo Wildlife lab.


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## laney (Oct 26, 2015)

It's a shame people are not more aware of mycoplasma. People can do the 6month quarantine and the torts appear fine so then place them together, that's what I did now my torts have it. I would recommend anyone about to place torts together to get their mouths swabbed for it. My torts showed no symptoms, never had runny noses etc but unfortunately I knew nothing about the disease at the time and it flared up years later.


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## Louise C (Oct 26, 2015)

laney said:


> It's a shame people are not more aware of mycoplasma. People can do the 6month quarantine and the torts appear fine so then place them together, that's what I did now my torts have it. I would recommend anyone about to place torts together to get their mouths swabbed for it. My torts showed no symptoms, never had runny noses etc but unfortunately I knew nothing about the disease at the time and it flared up years later.


 
That's a real shame....all the books tell you to do the quarantine period too so you would believe you were fine. I hope your torts stay healthy.


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## dmmj (Oct 27, 2015)

does anyone know how much the test cost on average and how long it takes?


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## pdrobber (Oct 27, 2015)

Also, @deadheadvet or anyone else that may know,how is a tortoise tested for it? Is it a blood test? Can a cytology be done of nasal discharge/mucous? Or a culture? Fluid analysis?


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## deadheadvet (Oct 27, 2015)

You need to get a swab with a sterile culturette of nasal discharge and submit for PCR of Mycoplasma at Univ. of Florida. Cost is somewhere around 100-200$ dollars.


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## Kapidolo Farms (Oct 27, 2015)

Louise C said:


> Hi Ascott, Yes he was captive bred. The breeder has been breeding Russians for 30 years so have all come from captive stock. I know they do have other breeds such as Sulcata's etc and not sure about them being 100% captive bred but I didn't think that different breeds would be mixed especially by an experienced breeder /specialist.



Trying to be humorous in an unpleasant topic area with this response.

The first rule of turtle club is you don't tell others about turtle club.

Some breeders, zoo, wildlife rehabers, etc. want to maintain a reputation of textbook cleanliness. Some succeed. Most do not.

Without it sounding like some conspiracy, look at hospitals and what kinds of things develop there that are disease pathologies that can kill the very workers in those hospitals. Some medical workers actually have to leave medicine as they become carriers of SARS etc.

Any large collection may very well have sub clinical disease in them. The stress of neonates getting moved about is a way these issue present themselves.

Based on your narrative you followed-up in an ethical way. That you may be appreciated for it is an open question.

But, NO it is not something so infused into the nature of captive breeding facilities, backyard hobbyists or commercial breeders that it should be considered "just the way it is". 

The other side of it is how you follow up with the supplier of the animal. You really have to ask what benefit will be made by whatever further action you may or may not take. If by your measure and values you can improve the lot of existence of the animals or people dealing wit them, then do go forward with an action or inaction.


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## Kapidolo Farms (Oct 27, 2015)

Dr. Boyer mentioned a therapy that may well result in cure, that is no detectable element of the disease after a regime of treatment by any current detection method. So far successful in Desert Tortoises. He's on the vet list here in TFO.


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## ascott (Oct 27, 2015)

Will said:


> Dr. Boyer mentioned a therapy that may well result in cure, that is no detectable element of the disease after a regime of treatment by any current detection method. So far successful in Desert Tortoises. He's on the vet list here in TFO.



No detectable element in all actuality does not equal cure...there is still not a cure..just saying...and in NO WAY laying into an argument...


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## Kapidolo Farms (Oct 27, 2015)

ascott said:


> No detectable element in all actuality does not equal cure...there is still not a cure..just saying...and in NO WAY laying into an argument...


I'm reporting what a globally respected reptile vet has said. I guess you know more. By denying your looking for a debating conversation is to declare that is exactly what you want. I am sure Boyer spends a bit of time here on TFO, maybe he will respond, maybe not. If you feel I have somehow inaccurately restated something you are knowledgeable on, then please correct my error.

And ultimately there could be a fair statement that no disease is ever cured due to many biological processes that include our own genome changing based on the disease having been in your body as the host.

If the standard diagnostic is a PCR swab that detects tortoises with the disease, that have no clinical signs of the disease, and then a treatment regime is implemented and then the same test shows no sign of the disease, that fulfills the criteria of "cured". 

That's how medicine works. It's called_ practicing_, not _doing_ for a reason.


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## ascott (Oct 27, 2015)

Will said:


> I'm reporting what a globally respected reptile vet has said. I guess you know more. By denying your looking for a debating conversation is to declare that is exactly what you want. I am sure Boyer spends a bit of time here on TFO, maybe he will respond, maybe not. If you feel I have somehow inaccurately restated something you are knowledgeable on, then please correct my error.
> 
> And ultimately there could be a fair statement that no disease is ever cured due to many biological processes that include our own genome changing based on the disease having been in your body as the host.
> 
> ...



okay...what ever you say...see, I do not desire to argue...you have yours and I have mine...all good...thanks.


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## laney (Oct 28, 2015)

dmmj said:


> does anyone know how much the test cost on average and how long it takes?


It was around £100 here in uk, the torts mouths were swabbed and sent to a special lab in Germany.


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## BradKellerDA (Oct 19, 2016)

dmmj said:


> does anyone know how much the test cost on average and how long it takes?


Mine just cost me $85 and I got the results back in 4 days.


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