# CHE Wattage Recommendation for New Enclosure



## John84 (Apr 19, 2017)

Hello All,

I live in Central/Northern California and my Sulcata is getting ready to move outside. I am going to copy @Tom and use his 4X4 style box. Would anyone know what watt CHE would work best to keep the box warm? The box will be fully insulated and the CHE will me on a Zilla thermostat.

Thank you!


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## Markw84 (Apr 19, 2017)

I like using lower wattage spread out a bit to reduce a "hot spot". That is why @Tom uses radiant heat panels. They are the same technology as a ceramic heat emitter, just spread out over a wider footprint. If you are unable to use a heat panel because of the cost, I would go with 2 100 watt CHE's placed about 12-14" apart wired to the same thermostat That will create a larger area being heated and the thermostat will probably not have to kick on very often with a total of 200 watts. You do want to be sure to insulate as Tom's design or the CHE's will have to be on too much to keep the heat up on cooler nights / winter.


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## wellington (Apr 19, 2017)

Ditto. But if you can go with the small portable oil filled radiator type heater the Tom uses and shows in a few of his threads. They really are not that expensive.
The cost of one would probably equal or be less then two Che's and fixtures


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## Tom (Apr 19, 2017)

John84 said:


> Hello All,
> 
> I live in Central/Northern California and my Sulcata is getting ready to move outside. I am going to copy @Tom and use his 4X4 style box. Would anyone know what watt CHE would work best to keep the box warm? The box will be fully insulated and the CHE will me on a Zilla thermostat.
> 
> Thank you!



You should not use a CHE. They don't warm things enough and the tortoise will sit under it all night and "slow-burn" the top of the carapace. It doesn't burn like it catches fire and ignites, it burns in such a way the the excessive heat and desiccation damages the upper layers of the shell. Use a RHP or the oil heater instead.


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## John84 (Apr 20, 2017)

Tom said:


> You should not use a CHE. They don't warm things enough and the tortoise will sit under it all night and "slow-burn" the top of the carapace. It doesn't burn like it catches fire and ignites, it burns in such a way the the excessive heat and desiccation damages the upper layers of the shell. Use a RHP or the oil heater instead.


Oh, I currently have 2 CHE's in my indoor encloser, should I replace them? I thought they were the way to go.


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## Markw84 (Apr 20, 2017)

John84 said:


> Oh, I currently have 2 CHE's in my indoor encloser, should I replace them? I thought they were the way to go.


@Tom makes a good point in that CHE's get much hotter than radiant heat panels. So it is important to mount in a way that the tortoise top of shell is not too close to the elements of the CHE. I would never use more than a 100 watt CHE and if more heat is needed, use multiple 100 watt CHEs. A CHE operates at about 300° - 600° while a radiant heat panel's elements operate at about 190°. BOTH put out the same amount of heat based upon wattage. Both convert electricity to IR (infrared radiation) in the 2000nm - 10,000nm wavelength. So 100 watt CHE produces the same amount of IR heat as a 100 watt radiant panel, however it is all concentrated from the 3" circular element with a CHE, while a radiant heat panel will distribute that over perhaps 200 sq in or more. The biggest problem is when someone who wants to provide more heat, goes to a 150 watt or 200 watt CHE. ALL that IR is concentrated in a very small 10 sq in area. Since CHE's are also mounted in a fixture we normally hang in the enclosure, the heat element then ends up being at least 8" below ceiling level as opposed to a radian heat panel mounted directly on the ceiling and just 2" thick. Therefore the CHE is prone to be mounted where the bottom of the element is too close to the top of the tortoise shell. In particular, with a large tortoise, in a night box that is 24" high, that is often quite close to the top of shell. A large tortoise takes a while to heat up the overall body temperature, and sitting directly beneath that smaller element means the part of the shell directly beneath the CHE will quickly overheat while the rest of the tortoise body is still wanting to heat up. My large sulcata is 13" tall resting on his plastron. You can see with a CHE hanging in a 24" night box, it would be just an inch above his carapace. Even in a fixture directly mounted to the top of the night box, it would still only be 3" away!

My personal opinion: I feel radiant heat panels are definitely preferable. If using a CHE, I would never use anything larger than 100 watts, and never mounted so it is closer than 10" to top of carapace. ALWAYS on a thermostat. I always use at least 2 to spread out the heat distribution.


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## Tom (Apr 20, 2017)

John84 said:


> Oh, I currently have 2 CHE's in my indoor encloser, should I replace them? I thought they were the way to go.



Indoors for smaller tortoise is fine. Outdoors, for larger tortoises, CHEs are not the way to go.


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## John84 (Apr 26, 2017)

I see that most oil filled heaters are 700 - 1500 watts. is that to hot?


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## John84 (Apr 26, 2017)

Also, would I need to add some sort of heat shield to the wood barrier so it doesn't catch fire?


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## xirxes (May 2, 2017)

I am also looking for best setup for my new outside enclosure. 

I have my 250w CHE mounted directly to a 2x4 that is 36" from bottom of enclosure, so 30" from bottom to CHE heating a 30x30x40" total area with hay stacked about 10" high, well insulated enclosure.

My sulcata is currently only 6" tall, and I'm willing to swap to two 150w Che's, when she gets larger, but one single 100W CHE was not enough to keep 75f inside on thermostat when 51F outside.

Is there a compact enough oil fixture that will fit in 6-8" area that will heat the enclosure better?


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## Cowboy_Ken (May 10, 2017)

xirxes said:


> Is there a compact enough oil fixture that will fit in 6-8" area that will heat the enclosure better?


 In my outdoor, heated houses, I've never used a CHE or any type of single, overhead heat source. These tend to produce a heat spot that is much too hot for your tortoises carapace. This then tends to do a slow burn with a significant amount of drying going on at the same time. I've always used the oil filled, radiant heater that you are speaking of to supply the heat. I couple that with a 4" computer fan to help move the heat around the entire heated house. This results in me being happy to read that this is the direction you want to go as well. 
Concerning the heater being compact enough for your heated house, all I can recommend is that you just check out what is available for you in your area. There are many different brands out there and you should be able to find one to suit your needs.


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## Tom (May 12, 2017)

John84 said:


> I see that most oil filled heaters are 700 - 1500 watts. is that to hot?



You use them on low and run them through your own thermostat.


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## Tom (May 12, 2017)

xirxes said:


> I am also looking for best setup for my new outside enclosure.
> 
> I have my 250w CHE mounted directly to a 2x4 that is 36" from bottom of enclosure, so 30" from bottom to CHE heating a 30x30x40" total area with hay stacked about 10" high, well insulated enclosure.
> 
> ...



I would:
1. Get rid of the CHE.
2. Get rid of the hay and replace it with a little dirt.
3. Hang a RHP from the ceiling so that it is about 12 inches from the top of the tortoises carapace.
4. Use a Kane heat mat on the bottom.
5. Control 3 and 4 with a thermostat.
6. Build my next box shorter. The tortoise will only use 10-12" of height, and you are heating all the rest of that space for no reason.

This oil heater would fit in a space about 6x24":
http://www.homedepot.com/p/NewAir-4...d-Under-Desk-Portable-Heater-AH-400/205588528


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## Bobbi Crane (Nov 17, 2017)

Tom said:


> I would:
> 1. Get rid of the CHE.
> 2. Get rid of the hay and replace it with a little dirt.
> 3. Hang a RHP from the ceiling so that it is about 12 inches from the top of the tortoises carapace.
> ...



Which is better? The oil filled heater or a radiant heat panel mad me for outdoor pets? I'e looked at some pa else for chicken coops and reptitherm. Even pig blankets.


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## Bobbi Crane (Nov 17, 2017)

Bobbi Crane said:


> Which is better? The oil filled heater or a radiant heat panel mad me for outdoor pets? I'e looked at some pa else for chicken coops and reptitherm. Even pig blankets.


*I've looked at some panels


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## Hugo's Home (Nov 17, 2017)

Bobbi Crane said:


> Which is better? The oil filled heater or a radiant heat panel mad me for outdoor pets? I'e looked at some pa else for chicken coops and reptitherm. Even pig blankets.


I have an oil heater. Works great in the 4x 7 box. And hasn't used much energy yet. I think they will work about the same just depends on how much $$ ya wanna spend.


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## Tom (Nov 17, 2017)

Bobbi Crane said:


> Which is better? The oil filled heater or a radiant heat panel mad me for outdoor pets? I'e looked at some pa else for chicken coops and reptitherm. Even pig blankets.


What size night box?


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## Bobbi Crane (Nov 18, 2017)

Tom said:


> What size night box?


I haven't built it yet, just getting as much info and ideas as I can first. My 2 sulcata's are 2 and 2 1/2 yrs old, so they're still small enough that I can bring them inside when weather gets too cold. I've just read so many different opinions, and everyone seems to contradict the other.


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## Tom (Nov 18, 2017)

Bobbi Crane said:


> I haven't built it yet, just getting as much info and ideas as I can first. My 2 sulcata's are 2 and 2 1/2 yrs old, so they're still small enough that I can bring them inside when weather gets too cold. I've just read so many different opinions, and everyone seems to contradict the other.



Since they need to be separated, I'd build a box like this so that you only have to build one box and and you only have to heat one box:
https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/double-door-night-box.129054/


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