# Free range questions



## SteveW (Nov 13, 2015)

So I guess this now becomes debatable as the original post is now closed. 

You know, this person actually asked for opinions. The tactics employed seem to be that those questions were answered. Doesn't seem like the worst the worst thing.


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## dmmj (Nov 13, 2015)

I'm a little confused what are you asking for about this thread specifically? Are we discussing free range or what? Thank you


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## wellington (Nov 13, 2015)

I agree. When people are trying to help your animal, don't make excuses of why you can't. If you can't do better when your doing so bad, then rehome the animal to someone that can. Specially when your a vet tech or work in any field of animals, you should know or do better. 
As for the thread being closed, I believe (don't know) it was because the OP said good bye to the forum, so there was no reason for more replays.


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## Yvonne G (Nov 13, 2015)

In my opinion, it's just too cold on the floor for a tortoise. That's my biggest gripe about it. The other things, dust bunnies, cords, small bits of plastic, hair, etc. - these are all things that puppies and kittens encounter too. Tortoises are just a whole lot quieter than a little mammal. I just keep harking back to the poor little sulcata that got his head squashed behind the door. Just too many hazards for a little tortoise to have to endure.

About the particular thread that spurred this thread - Once we gave the OP all our opinions on whether or not this was a good idea for her, we all should have dropped it. The problem arose when we kept at it over and over again.


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## G-stars (Nov 13, 2015)

dmmj said:


> I'm a little confused what are you asking for about this thread specifically? Are we discussing free range or what? Thank you



I believe he's talking about this thread. http://www.tortoiseforum.org/index.php?threads/Sulcata-in-Nebraska,-free-range-in-my-house.131580/

I'll keep my opinions to myself since it wouldn't add anything which hasn't already been stated. However too many people get easily offended nowadays.


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## Jacqui (Nov 13, 2015)

So this thread is not really to discuss the pros and cons of free range?


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## SteveW (Nov 13, 2015)

Jacqui said:


> So this thread is not really to discuss the pros and cons of free range?



If you can think of a 'pro' feel free to throw it out for discussion. As there aren't any, I suspect it will be brief. 

As to this thread, the point I intended was that the OP of the previous thread specifically asked for feedback. Feedback was provided. That the OP left in a huff is on them. It's never a good idea to ask a question you don't want the answer to. 
Regardless, berating someone that actually took the time to answer the question is both mean spirited and counter productive to a forum of information.


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## wellington (Nov 13, 2015)

Yvonne G said:


> In my opinion, it's just too cold on the floor for a tortoise. That's my biggest gripe about it. The other things, dust bunnies, cords, small bits of plastic, hair, etc. - these are all things that puppies and kittens encounter too. Tortoises are just a whole lot quieter than a little mammal. I just keep harking back to the poor little sulcata that got his head squashed behind the door. Just too many hazards for a little tortoise to have to endure.
> 
> About the particular thread that spurred this thread - Once we gave the OP all our opinions on whether or not this was a good idea for her, we all should have dropped it. The problem arose when we kept at it over and over again.



It should have been left open.


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## Tidgy's Dad (Nov 13, 2015)

wellington said:


> It should have been left open.


I agree.
It would have been possible to point out to the OP that one can block people who you don't wish to converse with, that there are other solutions to the space problem, some of which were touched upon, provide links to two-tired enclosure threads, that there are people who are sympathetic to the problems involved and wish to give positive criticism or advice.
if the OP does return, even just to look at what happens, the thread ends on a very negative note, all around.
(though I do understand that it was possibly going to end in a face off between members with differing views.).


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## Grandpa Turtle 144 (Nov 13, 2015)

I agree all that was said was what we all thought but didn't say. I'm sorry that I didn't say what tom said what was best for the tort . I'm sorry tom !


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## Tom (Nov 13, 2015)

I NEVER like it when someone leaves the forum in a huff. That is never my goal.

But darn it, some things need to be said. We will never all agree on what those things are or when they should be said, but I stand by my comments. I'm not sorry. I meant what I said, and I said what I meant. And I said it with the intention of HELPING that tortoise and helping that tortoises new owner gain some understanding. Frankly, I don't know that I failed. She got the message. I think she knows she is in the wrong and I think that is why she over-reacted. With 20 years of vet tech experience, she is used to giving the lectures, not receiving them. She sees other animal keepers and pets owners as dummies and herself as the expert. She didn't like having it pointed out that she was making the same sort husbandry errors that she has spent so many years admonishing other per owners about.

My wife was a vet tech for 13 years. We both work closely with vets and techs on a daily basis due to our jobs and our animals. Many of our friends are vet techs and vets. I don't know this woman, but I sure as heck know her type.

In any case, thanks to those who have voiced support, and to those who feel I was in the wrong, I ask again, what tactic do you think was going to get that tortoise off that floor?

Steve, Thanks for this thread. I do feel bad when these things happen, and it does make me question my sanity sometimes. Seeing comments from both sides in a thread like this brings me some peace and reassures me that I am not that far out there.


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## Tom (Nov 13, 2015)

Grandpa Turtle 144 said:


> I agree all that was said was what we all thought but didn't say. I'm sorry that I didn't say what tom said what was best for the tort . I'm sorry tom !



Its okay. I know what you were thinking. 

Thanks for the good company at lunch! That corn was tasty!


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## Grandpa Turtle 144 (Nov 14, 2015)

Tom said:


> Its okay. I know what you were thinking.
> 
> Thanks for the good company at lunch! That corn was tasty!


Your very welcome, and I thought all about Thursday. And Fri . Was great ! Thank you TTPG !


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## Jacqui (Nov 14, 2015)

SteveW said:


> If you can think of a 'pro' feel free to throw it out for discussion. As there aren't any, I suspect it will be brief.
> 
> As to this thread, the point I intended was that the OP of the previous thread specifically asked for feedback. Feedback was provided. That the OP left in a huff is on them. It's never a good idea to ask a question you don't want the answer to.
> Regardless, berating someone that actually took the time to answer the question is both mean spirited and counter productive to a forum of information.



So in your own words this thread ìs to "discuss" a person NOT the theory behind free range?


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## SteveW (Nov 14, 2015)

Jacqui said:


> So in your own words this thread ìs to "discuss" a person NOT the theory behind free range?



No, those would be your words. I wanted to discuss the situation. But as previously mentioned, if you'd like to share your thoughts (now risen to the level of theory) on letting torts roam through the house, then by all means. As the OP I give you my blessing. 'Drop some knowledge' as the kids might say.


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## Jacqui (Nov 14, 2015)

Just seems only two of all the posts in here are actually debating the title topic.


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## Yvonne G (Nov 14, 2015)

wellington said:


> It should have been left open.




I don't think there's a moderator on the forum who hasn't succumbed to the wishes of the OP when they've asked for their thread to be closed. If the OP asks to close a thread, we do. That's all there is to it. You've done it yourself, Barb.


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## Yvonne G (Nov 14, 2015)

Tom said:


> I NEVER like it when someone leaves the forum in a huff. That is never my goal.
> 
> But darn it, some things need to be said. We will never all agree on what those things are or when they should be said, but I stand by my comments. I'm not sorry. I meant what I said, and I said what I meant. And I said it with the intention of HELPING that tortoise and helping that tortoises new owner gain some understanding. Frankly, I don't know that I failed. She got the message. I think she knows she is in the wrong and I think that is why she over-reacted. With 20 years of vet tech experience, she is used to giving the lectures, not receiving them. She sees other animal keepers and pets owners as dummies and herself as the expert. She didn't like having it pointed out that she was making the same sort husbandry errors that she has spent so many years admonishing other per owners about.
> 
> ...



I came late to the thread, and didn't really see what was going on as it was happening, but reading the whole thing at one time it became obvious to me that you were beating a dead horse, Tom. You made your point, and even though she kept saying she wasn't going to change, you kept on at her. There's only so much we can do. Make your point then leave it alone.


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## SteveW (Nov 14, 2015)

Jacqui said:


> Just seems only two of all the posts in here are actually debating the title topic.



In that case, you will need to ask whichever moderator changed the title.


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## Pearly (Nov 14, 2015)

Jacqui said:


> Just seems only two of all the posts in here are actually debating the title topic.


Wow! I just read the original thread. It got really charged with all kinds of emotions, didn't it?... Emotions aside though, I think this was a good topic for a debate. For new keeper (such as yours truly) it is good to read opinions of people with years of experience voicing their views, learn from all of them and find my own way, one that suits my current situation best. I tend to just pick the pertinent content from people's posts and not worry so much about the diplomacy of the use of words. Some people are really gifted with words and others are not. Some are awesome diplomats who are able to deliver potentially upsetting news in a nice, soft way, and others tend to say it like it is focusing on pure content. I see value to both types of voices of experienced keepers on here. I am here to learn first and foremost. Making friends on the forum is a bonus. I don't have to like or be liked by every single member, but I know that the more I read, the more I'm likely to learn and become the better tort grandma. Every single post has a potential of bringing a nugget of valuable information even if delivered in a little harsh way, even if I have to hear something I don't really want to hear. My point is: we All share common purpose which is keeping our torts healthy and safe, and it's the content rather than delivery that personally I'm after. I appreciate all the forum contributors for taking their time to help me learn. In 4&1/2 months I have learned so much from you Guys and gained so much confidence. I thank you for your time and willingness to help


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## Yvonne G (Nov 14, 2015)

SteveW said:


> In that case, you will need to ask whichever moderator changed the title.



That was me because I thought there was confusion with the first response. That wasn't your intent? If so, I'll delete what I added.


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## Tom (Nov 14, 2015)

Yvonne G said:


> I don't think there's a moderator on the forum who hasn't succumbed to the wishes of the OP when they've asked for their thread to be closed. If the OP asks to close a thread, we do. That's all there is to it. You've done it yourself, Barb.



I didn't see the OP ask for this. Was it done in a PM? Seems unfair to let someone start a useful discussion and then just end it when they perceive it is not going there way at the moment. I saw her thread as a useful discussion. Mike has recently pointed out several times how we learn most from respectful disagreements. I don't think that lady was respectful of me when she started name calling me, but I've got a thick skin, so that didn't bother me. I thought there were some beneficial points being made there, and I am quite certain that more good points would have been made, and helpful info shared had the thread not been abruptly locked to to Jacqui's emotional reaction/over-reaction to this.

This is a forum for "Talking Tortoises". We can't talk if threads are locked.


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## Yvonne G (Nov 14, 2015)

Tom said:


> This is a forum for "Talking Tortoises". We can't talk if threads are locked.



Remember this the next time you ask one of us to close a thread for you.


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## SteveW (Nov 14, 2015)

Tom said:


> Steve, Thanks for this thread. .



You're welcome. In spite of our bitter, almost violent disagreements over closed chambers, I very much appreciate the amount of actual information you provide. Tattoos and lotto winnings are all good fun, but it starts to be a forum for people that like tortoises, instead of a forum about tortoises. 

I, for one, would prefer information. Even if (in the case of my redfoots shell) it does not always give my ego a boost. 

Cheers!


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## SteveW (Nov 14, 2015)

Yvonne G said:


> That was me because I thought there was confusion with the first response. That wasn't your intent? If so, I'll delete what I added.



Doesn't bother me at all. Carry on


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## Tom (Nov 14, 2015)

Yvonne G said:


> I came late to the thread, and didn't really see what was going on as it was happening, but reading the whole thing at one time it became obvious to me that you were beating a dead horse, Tom. You made your point, and even though she kept saying she wasn't going to change, you kept on at her. There's only so much we can do. Make your point then leave it alone.



Yes ma'am. Thank you for your wisdom and advice.

You know from dealing with me over the years that sometimes I find a dead horse worth beating so that people OTHER than the person involved in the argument might benefit from the discussion. THAT is why I persisted.

Because I truly believe that her tortoise's life is on the line, I felt it was worth it to persist at the risk of upsetting the OP. Something in that scenario is going to cause harm to that tortoise: The slick floors, dogs, cold temps, stairs, dropped foreign bodies, tripping husband, doors, kids running around, etc…

I know that some people feel I should have let it go sooner, but the welfare of the animal that landed in her care matters more to me than her feelings. If that makes me a bad guy, then a bad guy, I will be.


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## Jacqui (Nov 14, 2015)

Tom said:


> helpful info shared had the thread not been abruptly locked to to Jacqui's emotional reaction/over-reaction to this.


[

Tom learn facts please BEFORE making these types of negative false comments. As I recall, all the times you have asked us Mods to close your threads, you have done it by PM.


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## Tom (Nov 14, 2015)

Jacqui said:


> [
> 
> Tom learn facts please BEFORE making these types of negative false comments. As I recall, all the times you have asked us Mods to close your threads, you have done it by PM.



Now would be a good time for you to inform me of the facts, would it not?

False comments? Did you not type in " *walks off in disgust* " and hit "POST REPLY". Forgive me, but that seems like an emotional response to me. I have no interest in arguing with you, so may I request you share some facts?


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## SarahChelonoidis (Nov 14, 2015)

I'm not sure who this thread is helping. It's not a debate in tortoise husbandry, it's a debate on how different people handled themselves in a particular forum thread. I'd move this into off-topic or maybe even site feedback.


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## dmmj (Nov 14, 2015)

sorry folks this thread has just devolved to mame callimg & insultss I'm closing it. if you think this thread serves a purpose you can petition to reopen it


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