# Another Dog Story...



## Tom

My best friend has a group of russians. One male, three females. He and I have similar backgrounds and interest in reptiles. We experienced the big boom of reptile popularity together in the early 90's. We have a habit of swapping reptiles back and forth. We had a water monitor that we shared and a pair of dog tame amethystine pythons, recently some bearded dragons and a couple of snakes had an extended visit with me... you get the idea. Well he got married and had kids before I did and when his first son was a few years old, "Uncle Tom", bought him a hatchling russian at a reptile show that we all attended together. His son named the tortoise Horace. That was around 8 years ago. As Horace grew and thrived, my friend added a young CB female. As Horace reached maturity he predictably got aggressive with his female and so my buddy added a couple more females to make a nice group. He built a large outdoor pen and his tortoises have done very well living outdoors for him in the warm dry CA air. Recently he bought a new house with a huge backyard and moved his adult tortoise group into a large new outdoor pen with lots of nooks and crannies and hidey holes. Horace, and his hopefully upcoming offspring, were intended to be in our family for many generations...

My friend's wife's Uncle Joe (not his real name) has been having some health issues and has not been able to get out with his dog as often as he'd like. He asked if he could turn his dog loose in the big backyard for some exercise. The dog was a medium sized mutt, very well trained, well behaved, great with the kids, great with all people, and he had been to the house many times before. The dog never showed any interest in the tortoises or their pen way over on the far side of the yard and was not "critter crazy", in any way. The uncle is a good man. I know him and his family well. He understood about the tortoises, knew about them and agreed that the dog would never be left unsupervised in the backyard and that he would remain with the dog at all times. He had been over with the dog several times without incident. The dog NEVER showed any interest whatsoever in the tortoises or their pen. All went well on the current visit and uncle Joe sat in the backyard with his dog while it exercised and played. The time came to leave and Uncle Joe stepped into the house to say his goodbyes. Goodbye turned into a conversation and conversation turned into a discussion. We've all done this, I'm sure. Mind you, all of the people involved are intelligent, thoughtful, decent people. We are not talking about apethetic people who don't know any better, or don't care.

My buddy came home from work, greeted the family, and went to his room to change out of his work clothes. Outside the bedroom window he could see uncle Joe's dog chewing on something. Never even thinking of the tortoises, he went outside to see what the dog had found... To his shock and horror the dog was gnawing on, and removing pieces from one of the adult female russians. She was still alive while the dog worked on her, but she was too far gone to be saved. To his further shock and horror, Horace was in many pieces just a few feet away. Horace and his female are dead. Gone forever. They will not be bringing joy to our families any longer. This tortoise was to grow up with my nephew and still be his companion when they were both old men. Just a few minutes of inattention is all it took. Done. I am shocked, horrified, angry, sad, and rapidly approaching numb from thinking about it.

This is not about temperament or training. It is simply a dog's natural instincts. Any dog, any breed, any time, any level of training. I am a professional dog trainer. My dogs are the best trained dogs in the entire country and I have the National trophies to prove it. I allow my dogs around all of my tortoises of all species and sizes frequently, but NEVER, unsupervised. Please believe me when I say:

DOGS AND TORTOISES SHOULD NEVER NEVER NEVER BE LEFT ALONE TOGETHER!!!!!!!!!!!!

Not for a minute, not for one second. Not while you go to the bathroom. Not while you quickly answer the phone. Not while you check on the kids. Not while you bid farewell to beloved family members for the evening... Everyone makes mistakes, but some things should just NOT be left to chance.

This one hit very close to home with me, but I have seen it many times. Blood on the dog and adults hands, tears on the children's faces... Spread the word people. Don't let this happen!


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## Zamric

*RE: Another Dog Story*

This story saddens me! Sorry for your loss!

I have the same issue only backwards.... WalkingRock is 10 times larger (by weight) than my dog and has been known to charge him and even nip at his tail and hind quarters. Since Surge is deaf and going blind, WalkingRock must constantly be supervised so he doesn't injur Surge. These 2 species (dogs and tortoises) just don't get along well!


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## wellington

*RE: Another Dog Story*

Tom, 
I am so, so sorry for all of you and your loss. That is just so sad and horrifying. Some mistakes last a life time and just can't happen. This is such a sad lesson. I hope everyone who thinks "not my dog" will learn from this and realize, that no matter what, these two species are NEVER to be left alone together! EVERY dog has something that will make them do, what comes natural, whether, run, attack, fight, etc, every dog has something that will make it forget it's been trained.
Again, so sorry


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## JoesMum

*RE: Another Dog Story*

Oh Tom... That is awful... I am so sorry


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## reticguy76

*RE: Another Dog Story*

very nice post. being in emergency veterinary medicine and special interest in emergency exotics medicine, we see dog attacked tortoises all the time and its unfortunate and happens usually within 1-5 minutes of unsupervised ability to interact. 
as stated, fact is, dogs will and still do resort to natural instinct with most any situation. just the way it is.


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## dmmj

*RE: Another Dog Story*

What a sad story, we have had 2 recent examples now of dogs and tortoises.


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## Kerryann

*RE: Another Dog Story*

I am really sorry for your loss.  I am glad that I read a story like this when I first came to TFO because I would have known to not let my schnauzer near my tortoises but would never have worried about my lab. I hope people see and heed the advice. As hard as it must be, I appreciate the sharing of this story.


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## Mordy

*RE: Another Dog Story*

sorry for your loss 




Tom said:


> My best friend has a group of russians. One male, three females. He and I have similar backgrounds and interest in reptiles. We experienced the big boom of reptile popularity together in the early 90's. We have a habit of swapping reptiles back and forth. We had a water monitor that we shared and a pair of dog tame amethystine pythons, recently some bearded dragons and a couple of snakes had an extended visit with me... you get the idea. Well he got married and had kids before I did and when his first son was a few years old, "Uncle Tom", bought him a hatchling russian at a reptile show that we all attended together. His son named the tortoise Horace. That was around 8 years ago. As Horace grew and thrived, my friend added a young CB female. As Horace reached maturity he predictably got aggressive with his female and so my buddy added a couple more females to make a nice group. He built a large outdoor pen and his tortoises have done very well living outdoors for him in the warm dry CA air. Recently he bought a new house with a huge backyard and moved his adult tortoise group into a large new outdoor pen with lots of nooks and crannies and hidey holes. Horace, and his hopefully upcoming offspring, were intended to be in our family for many generations...
> 
> My friend's wife's Uncle Joe (not his real name) has been having some health issues and has not been able to get out with his dog as often as he'd like. He asked if he could turn his dog loose in the big backyard for some exercise. The dog was a medium sized mutt, very well trained, well behaved, great with the kids, great with all people, and he had been to the house many times before. The dog never showed any interest in the tortoises or their pen way over on the far side of the yard and was not "critter crazy", in any way. The uncle is a good man. I know him and his family well. He understood about the tortoises, knew about them and agreed that the dog would never be left unsupervised in the backyard and that he would remain with the dog at all times. He had been over with the dog several times without incident. The dog NEVER showed any interest whatsoever in the tortoises or their pen. All went well on the current visit and uncle Joe sat in the backyard with his dog while it exercised and played. The time came to leave and Uncle Joe stepped into the house to say his goodbyes. Goodbye turned into a conversation and conversation turned into a discussion. We've all done this, I'm sure. Mind you, all of the people involved are intelligent, thoughtful, decent people. We are not talking about apethetic people who don't know any better, or don't care.
> 
> My buddy came home from work, greeted the family, and went to his room to change out of his work clothes. Outside the bedroom window he could see uncle Joe's dog chewing on something. Never even thinking of the tortoises, he went outside to see what the dog had found... To his shock and horror the dog was gnawing on, and removing pieces from one of the adult female russians. She was still alive while the dog worked on her, but she was too far gone to be saved. To his further shock and horror, Horace was in many pieces just a few feet away. Horace and his female are dead. Gone forever. They will not be bringing joy to our families any longer. This tortoise was to grow up with my nephew and still be his companion when they were both old men. Just a few minutes of inattention is all it took. Done. I am shocked, horrified, angry, sad, and rapidly approaching numb from thinking about it.
> 
> This is not about temperament or training. It is simply a dog's natural instincts. Any dog, any breed, any time, any level of training. I am a professional dog trainer. My dogs are the best trained dogs in the entire country and I have the National trophies to prove it. I allow my dogs around all of my tortoises of all species and sizes frequently, but NEVER, unsupervised. Please believe me when I say:
> 
> DOGS AND TORTOISES SHOULD NEVER NEVER NEVER BE LEFT ALONE TOGETHER!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> Not for a minute, not for one second. Not while you go to the bathroom. Not while you quickly answer the phone. Not while you check on the kids. Not while you bid farewell to beloved family members for the evening... Everyone makes mistakes, but some things should just NOT be left to chance.
> 
> This one hit very close to home with me, but I have seen it many times. Blood on the dog and adults hands, tears on the children's faces... Spread the word people. Don't let this happen!


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## tweeter

*RE: Another Dog Story*

I'm so very sorry. How horribe for everyone involved....and what a good reminder to all of us with dogs.


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## TuRtLE1924

*RE: Another Dog Story*

This is absolutely horrible. I know what it is like to lose a beloved creature that is part of the family. I am so very sorry for your loss and hope that in time you and your family may heal from this ordeal.
Thank you so much for sharing your story, I know how hard it must have been to share this. As someone who is researching and will be getting my own tortoise soon I take heed to the knowledge you have provided us with today.
Again, I am so sorry for your loss.


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## Momof4

*RE: Another Dog Story*

Tom, I can feel your pain in your writing. I'm so so sorry this happened.


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## Nay

*RE: Another Dog Story*

Tom,
It was good of you to write that story, as hard as it is. You also kept it very dignified and respectful, which I respect you a great deal for. We all, or at least many of us, have stories that we could share, but sometimes it is hard to keep the bitter emotions out of it. We all are able to feel your horror at this great injustice, without awful expletives at how much you want to hurt someone.
It was, is ,a horrible thing when a pet gets hurt because of something that could have easily been prevented. 
If your sad story hits just one person who may not have believed it could happen, then it was worth putting down.
It's just so sad and I have that sick feeling in my gut. I'm sorry.
Nay


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## N2TORTS

*RE: Another Dog Story*

"The dog was a medium sized mutt"........Darn Hybrids!



Your right Tom Dogs and Torts do not mix ......


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## *Barracuda_50*

*RE: Another Dog Story*

Very sorry for the loss  and yes i to agree dogs and torts or dogs with other reptiles should never be left alone together, dogs can and will do alot of damage, it is the prey drive they all have even if there very sweet loving mans best friend they do have a natural instinct to investage and maul/play with, things they shouldnt.. That is very sad Tom and very sorry for the loss..


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## Katherine

*RE: Another Dog Story*

What a tragedy. So sorry to read this. Hopefully having shared this story will spare someone else from making the same mistake.


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## Laura

*RE: Another Dog Story*

ANother dog story.. I thought Oh goodie, Tom has a neat job he is telling us about... NOT!!!
crap... that sucks BIG TIME!!! 
This goes for letting your torts runn the yard with out a penn also.. **** Happens.. Dont take the chance.. I hope others learn from this... 
so sorry..


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## dmarcus

*RE: Another Dog Story (Why tortoises and dogs DO NOT MIX. No exceptions!)*

Such sad news to hear. I just recently had to dig a trench along the fence line that separates my yard and my neighbors yard and filled it with concrete, because their dogs were constantly trying to dig under the fence to get into my yard. Like what has been said, dogs will do what comes natural no matter how trained they are.


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## Eweezyfosheezy

*RE: Another Dog Story (Why tortoises and dogs DO NOT MIX. No exceptions!)*

I'm sorry for your loss Tom. I have had almost the exact same thing happen to me as well.


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## lynnedit

*RE: Another Dog Story (Why tortoises and dogs DO NOT MIX. No exceptions!)*

How horrible for your friend. He was trying to do someone a favor, and it will affect him forever.
Even well trained dogs are only that when their owners are around. 
A very, very good reminder for us all...


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## Angi

*RE: Another Dog Story (Why tortoises and dogs DO NOT MIX. No exceptions!)*

I feel so sad for you and your poor nephew. What a sad sad story  I am sorry this happend to those poor little torts.


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## bigred

*RE: Another Dog Story (Why tortoises and dogs DO NOT MIX. No exceptions!)*

We just got a puppy a couple weeks ago- A true ankle bitter and wasnt my idea


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## RV's mom

*RE: Another Dog Story (Why tortoises and dogs DO NOT MIX. No exceptions!)*

words cannot express....
I'm sorry for your loss


teri


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## Laurie

*RE: Another Dog Story (Why tortoises and dogs DO NOT MIX. No exceptions!)*

What a shame, sorry to hear this.


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## ErikaO

*RE: Another Dog Story (Why tortoises and dogs DO NOT MIX. No exceptions!)*

Its sad enough to lose a pet, but to lose one in such a gory and tragic way......yuck! We had a very similar situation a few years ago. One of our red-eared sliders went from our pond over to our dog run (which was quite a ways away), and managed to squeeze through the very last post and the block wall into the dog's run. We thought we had every part of the run secured so that our turtles, toads, and frogs couldn't get into the run. Much to our dismay, we walked out to see our dogs (large, but super sweet dogs), and found them both chewing on what was left of our turtle. We no longer have those dogs, but we sure have the memory of that tragic day. 

Thanks for your posting (as it is so informative, much like all of your postings), and I am very sorry to hear about yet another loss of a loved tort.


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## Maggie Cummings

*RE: Another Dog Story (Why tortoises and dogs DO NOT MIX. No exceptions!)*

Oh Tom, I am so sorry! You know I know exactly how you feel, and unfortunately you told a very vivid story and I am in tears as I write this. I have the story of Mildred, my Gopherus agassizii that lost her front leg to a dog. But both Russians...OMG, I am so sorry, there are no words I have that will make you feel any better...


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## Babushkin

*RE: Another Dog Story (Why tortoises and dogs DO NOT MIX. No exceptions!)*

That's a very saddening story, I hated hearing about poor Horace. My neighbors have a large Labradoodle that is quite large, probably 4 feet tall when standing up, and he is scared of their small RT. I find it funny.


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## Yvonne G

*RE: Another Dog Story (Why tortoises and dogs DO NOT MIX. No exceptions!)*



Babushkin said:


> That's a very saddening story, I hated hearing about poor Horace. My neighbors have a large Labradoodle that is quite large, probably 4 feet tall when standing up, and he is scared of their small RT. I find it funny.



Hi Babushkin:

Won't you take a few moments to start a new thread in the "introductions" section and tell us a bit about yourself?


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## Jacob

*RE: Another Dog Story (Why tortoises and dogs DO NOT MIX. No exceptions!)*

sorry to hear, dogs and tortoises never go well together till this day :/


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## JoeImhof

*RE: Another Dog Story*

Thats terrible, I'm very sorry!

I had a dog scare myself some years ago, and this reminds me to also mention, that most neigborhoods have dogs occasionally run loose. 
Pens in such places need to be covered and secure.

I left my female outside for a few hours couple years back. I felt she was secure enough, she was inside temporary pen, from which I was pretty sure she could not esape. I left her in it often.

but one day went out in backyard to find a stray dog had lifted up top and take her (I could tell from the digging and local destruction it had been an animal.)

Well, after a quick panicked look, I found her, apparantly tossed by the dog into the swimming pool!

She had much bleeding and teeth marks on shell, but miraculously the vet fixed her up and she had turned out to be fine, but surely she would have drowned if I had been much more time in checking on here. 

You can probably see the scars on top of her shell in the egg laying photos I've posted earlier in the year. (but the worst damage was to the underside of her shell)

So its well to note in most areas, you need not only a pen the Tort cant dig or climb out of, but also Dog-proof from the outside


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## SuzieArizona

*RE: Another Dog Story (Why tortoises and dogs DO NOT MIX. No exceptions!)*

I once caught my Wire Fox Terrier chewing on my box turtle. After that I put up a heavy duty fence to keep them separated. The fence is tall with points at the top. I don't even have a gate so I have to climb over it to get to the turtle pen. It's a bit of a hassle but if it keeps them safe it's worth the trouble.


Tom said:


> My best friend has a group of russians. One male, three females. He and I have similar backgrounds and interest in reptiles. We experienced the big boom of reptile popularity together in the early 90's. We have a habit of swapping reptiles back and forth. We had a water monitor that we shared and a pair of dog tame amethystine pythons, recently some bearded dragons and a couple of snakes had an extended visit with me... you get the idea. Well he got married and had kids before I did and when his first son was a few years old, "Uncle Tom", bought him a hatchling russian at a reptile show that we all attended together. His son named the tortoise Horace. That was around 8 years ago. As Horace grew and thrived, my friend added a young CB female. As Horace reached maturity he predictably got aggressive with his female and so my buddy added a couple more females to make a nice group. He built a large outdoor pen and his tortoises have done very well living outdoors for him in the warm dry CA air. Recently he bought a new house with a huge backyard and moved his adult tortoise group into a large new outdoor pen with lots of nooks and crannies and hidey holes. Horace, and his hopefully upcoming offspring, were intended to be in our family for many generations...
> 
> My friend's wife's Uncle Joe (not his real name) has been having some health issues and has not been able to get out with his dog as often as he'd like. He asked if he could turn his dog loose in the big backyard for some exercise. The dog was a medium sized mutt, very well trained, well behaved, great with the kids, great with all people, and he had been to the house many times before. The dog never showed any interest in the tortoises or their pen way over on the far side of the yard and was not "critter crazy", in any way. The uncle is a good man. I know him and his family well. He understood about the tortoises, knew about them and agreed that the dog would never be left unsupervised in the backyard and that he would remain with the dog at all times. He had been over with the dog several times without incident. The dog NEVER showed any interest whatsoever in the tortoises or their pen. All went well on the current visit and uncle Joe sat in the backyard with his dog while it exercised and played. The time came to leave and Uncle Joe stepped into the house to say his goodbyes. Goodbye turned into a conversation and conversation turned into a discussion. We've all done this, I'm sure. Mind you, all of the people involved are intelligent, thoughtful, decent people. We are not talking about apethetic people who don't know any better, or don't care.
> 
> My buddy came home from work, greeted the family, and went to his room to change out of his work clothes. Outside the bedroom window he could see uncle Joe's dog chewing on something. Never even thinking of the tortoises, he went outside to see what the dog had found... To his shock and horror the dog was gnawing on, and removing pieces from one of the adult female russians. She was still alive while the dog worked on her, but she was too far gone to be saved. To his further shock and horror, Horace was in many pieces just a few feet away. Horace and his female are dead. Gone forever. They will not be bringing joy to our families any longer. This tortoise was to grow up with my nephew and still be his companion when they were both old men. Just a few minutes of inattention is all it took. Done. I am shocked, horrified, angry, sad, and rapidly approaching numb from thinking about it.
> 
> This is not about temperament or training. It is simply a dog's natural instincts. Any dog, any breed, any time, any level of training. I am a professional dog trainer. My dogs are the best trained dogs in the entire country and I have the National trophies to prove it. I allow my dogs around all of my tortoises of all species and sizes frequently, but NEVER, unsupervised. Please believe me when I say:
> 
> DOGS AND TORTOISES SHOULD NEVER NEVER NEVER BE LEFT ALONE TOGETHER!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> Not for a minute, not for one second. Not while you go to the bathroom. Not while you quickly answer the phone. Not while you check on the kids. Not while you bid farewell to beloved family members for the evening... Everyone makes mistakes, but some things should just NOT be left to chance.
> 
> This one hit very close to home with me, but I have seen it many times. Blood on the dog and adults hands, tears on the children's faces... Spread the word people. Don't let this happen!


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## l0velesly

*RE: Another Dog Story (Why tortoises and dogs DO NOT MIX. No exceptions!)*

Ugh, how horrible. Such a sad tragedy. The image is playing through my mind. I'm glad I don't have any dogs.


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## Casey666

*RE: Another Dog Story (Why tortoises and dogs DO NOT MIX. No exceptions!)*

thats horrible! My dog sounds the same. he does usually like to bring home small animals. Ill definitely be sure to close the door at all times!!!!!!!!


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## DanikaM

*RE: Another Dog Story (Why tortoises and dogs DO NOT MIX. No exceptions!)*

Our dog is interesting... we have always had a lot of small animals(cat, lizard, tortoise, ect.)and all she does is sniff them and walk away not caring. She makes sure she doesn't kick any creature while she's walking and is perfectly fine. I would still never trust her completely alone with the tortoise but I just wanted to share the side of someone with a dog that is used to them. Even for her a HUGE size she is put at the bottom of the pyramid. Lol. In their world it is probably rabbit, cat, lizard, tortoise, dog. Yes, rabbit in the lead. She chases the cat around the house.


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## Tom

*RE: Another Dog Story (Why tortoises and dogs DO NOT MIX. No exceptions!)*

Many of the dogs that chew up tortoises behave just as you describe, right up until they day they decide to have at it.


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## wellington

*RE: Another Dog Story (Why tortoises and dogs DO NOT MIX. No exceptions!)*

That's the same way my dog and cat both act. Until she, dog decides she wants to play, then the pouncing begins and if she were left alone to play with the tort, I am sure the biting would start also. Like Tom said, until that day happens, they all act like they aren't interested. Reason you just don't take the chance.


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## GeoTerraTestudo

*RE: Another Dog Story (Why tortoises and dogs DO NOT MIX. No exceptions!)*

Sorry to hear about this. But you are absolutely right: dogs and tortoises don't mix. Dogs have evolved to hunt all sorts of things, from large ungulates to small rodents and anything they can find in between. Dogs have strong jaws adapted for cracking not only bones, but also shells, and they will use them if they can. Dogs are wonderful animals with amazing abilities ... but those abilities put small pets like tortoises in great danger if they are unsecured or unsupervised.


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## mattgrizzlybear

*RE: Another Dog Story (Why tortoises and dogs DO NOT MIX. No exceptions!)*

thats good that the dog didnt bother the tortoise


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## mattgrizzlybear

*RE: Another Dog Story (Why tortoises and dogs DO NOT MIX. No exceptions!)*

sorry R.I.P


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## Kenazfehu

*RE: Another Dog Story (Why tortoises and dogs DO NOT MIX. No exceptions!)*

Oh my goodness! I'm sad to read this, but it's good to know. My dog and tortoise have been alone for a few minutes more than once, and it never occurred to me that such a horrible outcome was possible. We've been lucky; now we'll be vigilant.


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## nylesmommy

*RE: Another Dog Story (Why tortoises and dogs DO NOT MIX. No exceptions!)*

Omg im soo very sorry for your loss! I just got my russian tortoise Nyle and will take your story to heart and god bless


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## nkettles73

*RE: Another Dog Story (Why tortoises and dogs DO NOT MIX. No exceptions!)*

Tom, I am so sorry for your loss and know first hand how horrific this experience is. This same thing happened to me this past week with my Juvenile male Sulcata (the gardner left the gate open and neighbors dog getting in the back yard). Thank you for sharing your story so people are aware of things that can happen when all precessions are taken.


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## ChiKat

*RE: Another Dog Story (Why tortoises and dogs DO NOT MIX. No exceptions!)*



DanikaM said:


> Our dog is interesting... we have always had a lot of small animals(cat, lizard, tortoise, ect.)and all she does is sniff them and walk away not caring. She makes sure she doesn't kick any creature while she's walking and is perfectly fine. I would still never trust her completely alone with the tortoise but I just wanted to share the side of someone with a dog that is used to them. Even for her a HUGE size she is put at the bottom of the pyramid. Lol. In their world it is probably rabbit, cat, lizard, tortoise, dog. Yes, rabbit in the lead. She chases the cat around the house.



I have a 6-lb Chihuahua and a 15-lb mix who are great with small animals. The 15-lber used to snuggle with my pet rats (SUPERVISED) and they have both sniffed Nelson, but know they are not to get too close to him.

I would still NEVER EVER leave them alone with him. Even for a second. They are DOGS. Even if they are the sweetest, most harmless little dogs, you can't fight natural instincts. My dogs could see Nelson as a toy. It is not a risk I am willing to take.

Like Tom said, those are the dogs that end up hurting tortoises. You obviously wouldn't leave your aggressive, animal-chasing dog with your tortoise. It's when you let your guard down for a second because your dog is so sweet and loving, that these tragedies happen.


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## Laurie

*RE: Another Dog Story (Why tortoises and dogs DO NOT MIX. No exceptions!)*



ChiKat said:


> DanikaM said:
> 
> 
> 
> Our dog is interesting... we have always had a lot of small animals(cat, lizard, tortoise, ect.)and all she does is sniff them and walk away not caring. She makes sure she doesn't kick any creature while she's walking and is perfectly fine. I would still never trust her completely alone with the tortoise but I just wanted to share the side of someone with a dog that is used to them. Even for her a HUGE size she is put at the bottom of the pyramid. Lol. In their world it is probably rabbit, cat, lizard, tortoise, dog. Yes, rabbit in the lead. She chases the cat around the house.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have a 6-lb Chihuahua and a 15-lb mix who are great with small animals. The 15-lber used to snuggle with my pet rats (SUPERVISED) and they have both sniffed Nelson, but know they are not to get too close to him.
> 
> I would still NEVER EVER leave them alone with him. Even for a second. They are DOGS. Even if they are the sweetest, most harmless little dogs, you can't fight natural instincts. My dogs could see Nelson as a toy. It is not a risk I am willing to take.
> 
> Like Tom said, those are the dogs that end up hurting tortoises. You obviously wouldn't leave your aggressive, animal-chasing dog with your tortoise. It's when you let your guard down for a second because your dog is so sweet and loving, that these tragedies happen.
Click to expand...


I saw your name as the last post on this thread and my heart sank, I thought no, not Nelson! So happy to see it wasn't what I thought it was


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## TheTortoiseWhisperer

*RE: Another Dog Story (Why tortoises and dogs DO NOT MIX. No exceptions!)*



Tom said:


> My best friend has a group of russians. One male, three females. He and I have similar backgrounds and interest in reptiles. We experienced the big boom of reptile popularity together in the early 90's. We have a habit of swapping reptiles back and forth. We had a water monitor that we shared and a pair of dog tame amethystine pythons, recently some bearded dragons and a couple of snakes had an extended visit with me... you get the idea. Well he got married and had kids before I did and when his first son was a few years old, "Uncle Tom", bought him a hatchling russian at a reptile show that we all attended together. His son named the tortoise Horace. That was around 8 years ago. As Horace grew and thrived, my friend added a young CB female. As Horace reached maturity he predictably got aggressive with his female and so my buddy added a couple more females to make a nice group. He built a large outdoor pen and his tortoises have done very well living outdoors for him in the warm dry CA air. Recently he bought a new house with a huge backyard and moved his adult tortoise group into a large new outdoor pen with lots of nooks and crannies and hidey holes. Horace, and his hopefully upcoming offspring, were intended to be in our family for many generations...
> 
> My friend's wife's Uncle Joe (not his real name) has been having some health issues and has not been able to get out with his dog as often as he'd like. He asked if he could turn his dog loose in the big backyard for some exercise. The dog was a medium sized mutt, very well trained, well behaved, great with the kids, great with all people, and he had been to the house many times before. The dog never showed any interest in the tortoises or their pen way over on the far side of the yard and was not "critter crazy", in any way. The uncle is a good man. I know him and his family well. He understood about the tortoises, knew about them and agreed that the dog would never be left unsupervised in the backyard and that he would remain with the dog at all times. He had been over with the dog several times without incident. The dog NEVER showed any interest whatsoever in the tortoises or their pen. All went well on the current visit and uncle Joe sat in the backyard with his dog while it exercised and played. The time came to leave and Uncle Joe stepped into the house to say his goodbyes. Goodbye turned into a conversation and conversation turned into a discussion. We've all done this, I'm sure. Mind you, all of the people involved are intelligent, thoughtful, decent people. We are not talking about apethetic people who don't know any better, or don't care.
> 
> My buddy came home from work, greeted the family, and went to his room to change out of his work clothes. Outside the bedroom window he could see uncle Joe's dog chewing on something. Never even thinking of the tortoises, he went outside to see what the dog had found... To his shock and horror the dog was gnawing on, and removing pieces from one of the adult female russians. She was still alive while the dog worked on her, but she was too far gone to be saved. To his further shock and horror, Horace was in many pieces just a few feet away. Horace and his female are dead. Gone forever. They will not be bringing joy to our families any longer. This tortoise was to grow up with my nephew and still be his companion when they were both old men. Just a few minutes of inattention is all it took. Done. I am shocked, horrified, angry, sad, and rapidly approaching numb from thinking about it.
> 
> This is not about temperament or training. It is simply a dog's natural instincts. Any dog, any breed, any time, any level of training. I am a professional dog trainer. My dogs are the best trained dogs in the entire country and I have the National trophies to prove it. I allow my dogs around all of my tortoises of all species and sizes frequently, but NEVER, unsupervised. Please believe me when I say:
> 
> DOGS AND TORTOISES SHOULD NEVER NEVER NEVER BE LEFT ALONE TOGETHER!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> Not for a minute, not for one second. Not while you go to the bathroom. Not while you quickly answer the phone. Not while you check on the kids. Not while you bid farewell to beloved family members for the evening... Everyone makes mistakes, but some things should just NOT be left to chance.
> 
> This one hit very close to home with me, but I have seen it many times. Blood on the dog and adults hands, tears on the children's faces... Spread the word people. Don't let this happen!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> * Hi Tom, I am so sorry about Horace and the other female Russianâ€¦.I think it's especially sad to read this story so close to you, because it's so obvious how much you're committed to your pets and how much you love all animals particularly tortoisesâ€¦I am so so so sorry!!!!! :0(*


----------



## RosieRedfoot

*RE: Another Dog Story (Why tortoises and dogs DO NOT MIX. No exceptions!)*

I have two labs as well as a tortoise and a myriad of small critters. My one dog, the black lab, can be left with the rodents and rabbits with no issue. He ignores them. But when he saw Rosie the tortoise wandering about he had the stalking-prey look so I know he can't be trusted with a tortoise. My other dog has such a high prey drive that every bug that crosses his path has to be chased and eaten. I once let him see the gerbils (him in his crate and them in a cage) and he was whining and shaking and trying to claw out of the crate to get at them. I never let him even near the critters or the door of the critter room. My dogs, when I'm not home, are in crates in the living room and the tortoise and rabbits and rodents are in a second bedroom behind a shut door. When I'm home I still leave the pet room door shut unless the dogs are outside behind a locked outer door. I don't trust my dogs around my small pets one bit. I trust my black lab to not attack them when I'm home since he listens, but the yellow lab has such a high prey drive his hearing/obedience shuts off. This is why I've yet to build an outdoor pen. Not because I fear for raccoons/cats/people stealing her, but I fear my own dogs would find her and kill her. Some day, when she's bigger and we own a house, I will build a separate tortoise-safe yard. But for now she gets to live in her inside pen and partly in her outside pen (when the dogs are kenneled). It makes things difficult, but it's just something I have to do to keep all my pets safe.


----------



## TortoiseBoy1999

*RE: Another Dog Story (Why tortoises and dogs DO NOT MIX. No exceptions!)*

This is terrible. I had my dog behind the gate the other day when I was letting my Russian walk around and my mom and sister were like: "let the dog out! She looks so sad! She won't harm the tortoise!" Then I told them this story and my mom understood that it was for the best that the dog be kept behind the gate.


----------



## jtrux

*RE: Another Dog Story (Why tortoises and dogs DO NOT MIX. No exceptions!)*

My dog (German Shepherd) is very interested in my Leopard. When I wake up I take Cooper outside and let him soak up some rays while soaking in some warm water and I stay pretty close by and my dog just constantly interrupts his bath. I'm always running her off, i'm worried if I wasn't around she would pick him up and GULP!


----------



## wellington

*RE: Another Dog Story (Why tortoises and dogs DO NOT MIX. No exceptions!)*



jtrux said:


> My dog (German Shepherd) is very interested in my Leopard. When I wake up I take Cooper outside and let him soak up some rays while soaking in some warm water and I stay pretty close by and my dog just constantly interrupts his bath. I'm always running her off, i'm worried if I wasn't around she would pick him up and GULP!



She probably would. That's is why dogs should NEVER be left unsupervised with a tortoise.


----------



## Rio

*RE: Another Dog Story (Why tortoises and dogs DO NOT MIX. No exceptions!)*

I'm so sorry to hear that this happened to your babies. I have dogs and I'm a new potential tortoise owner, and this is a very grim, real warning that needs to be heard.


----------



## BentleytheTort

*RE: Another Dog Story (Why tortoises and dogs DO NOT MIX. No exceptions!)*

This honestly made me cry.It's amazing how these little creatures get to your heart and fast. 
Good luck to you Tom and Sorry for your losses.Hopefully you have saved a tort's life with this post!


----------



## mtdavis254817

*RE: Another Dog Story (Why tortoises and dogs DO NOT MIX. No exceptions!)*



Tom said:


> My best friend has a group of russians. One male, three females. He and I have similar backgrounds and interest in reptiles. We experienced the big boom of reptile popularity together in the early 90's. We have a habit of swapping reptiles back and forth. We had a water monitor that we shared and a pair of dog tame amethystine pythons, recently some bearded dragons and a couple of snakes had an extended visit with me... you get the idea. Well he got married and had kids before I did and when his first son was a few years old, "Uncle Tom", bought him a hatchling russian at a reptile show that we all attended together. His son named the tortoise Horace. That was around 8 years ago. As Horace grew and thrived, my friend added a young CB female. As Horace reached maturity he predictably got aggressive with his female and so my buddy added a couple more females to make a nice group. He built a large outdoor pen and his tortoises have done very well living outdoors for him in the warm dry CA air. Recently he bought a new house with a huge backyard and moved his adult tortoise group into a large new outdoor pen with lots of nooks and crannies and hidey holes. Horace, and his hopefully upcoming offspring, were intended to be in our family for many generations...
> 
> My friend's wife's Uncle Joe (not his real name) has been having some health issues and has not been able to get out with his dog as often as he'd like. He asked if he could turn his dog loose in the big backyard for some exercise. The dog was a medium sized mutt, very well trained, well behaved, great with the kids, great with all people, and he had been to the house many times before. The dog never showed any interest in the tortoises or their pen way over on the far side of the yard and was not "critter crazy", in any way. The uncle is a good man. I know him and his family well. He understood about the tortoises, knew about them and agreed that the dog would never be left unsupervised in the backyard and that he would remain with the dog at all times. He had been over with the dog several times without incident. The dog NEVER showed any interest whatsoever in the tortoises or their pen. All went well on the current visit and uncle Joe sat in the backyard with his dog while it exercised and played. The time came to leave and Uncle Joe stepped into the house to say his goodbyes. Goodbye turned into a conversation and conversation turned into a discussion. We've all done this, I'm sure. Mind you, all of the people involved are intelligent, thoughtful, decent people. We are not talking about apethetic people who don't know any better, or don't care.
> 
> My buddy came home from work, greeted the family, and went to his room to change out of his work clothes. Outside the bedroom window he could see uncle Joe's dog chewing on something. Never even thinking of the tortoises, he went outside to see what the dog had found... To his shock and horror the dog was gnawing on, and removing pieces from one of the adult female russians. She was still alive while the dog worked on her, but she was too far gone to be saved. To his further shock and horror, Horace was in many pieces just a few feet away. Horace and his female are dead. Gone forever. They will not be bringing joy to our families any longer. This tortoise was to grow up with my nephew and still be his companion when they were both old men. Just a few minutes of inattention is all it took. Done. I am shocked, horrified, angry, sad, and rapidly approaching numb from thinking about it.
> 
> This is not about temperament or training. It is simply a dog's natural instincts. Any dog, any breed, any time, any level of training. I am a professional dog trainer. My dogs are the best trained dogs in the entire country and I have the National trophies to prove it. I allow my dogs around all of my tortoises of all species and sizes frequently, but NEVER, unsupervised. Please believe me when I say:
> 
> DOGS AND TORTOISES SHOULD NEVER NEVER NEVER BE LEFT ALONE TOGETHER!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> Not for a minute, not for one second. Not while you go to the bathroom. Not while you quickly answer the phone. Not while you check on the kids. Not while you bid farewell to beloved family members for the evening... Everyone makes mistakes, but some things should just NOT be left to chance.
> 
> This one hit very close to home with me, but I have seen it many times. Blood on the dog and adults hands, tears on the children's faces... Spread the word people. Don't let this happen!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i agree that dogs and torts shouldnt be left alone.... i have a dog and it sounds bad but how i broke her of messin with my torts was..... id pick up my tort and hold it out to her... the moment she would sniff it id smack her in the snout and tell her NO!.. I did this over and over.... It may sound mean but now she wont even step in there pen, and when their walking around she completly avoids them... she wont even look them in their eyes




i agree that dogs and torts shouldnt be left alone.... i have a dog and it sounds bad but how i broke her of messin with my torts was..... id pick up my tort and hold it out to her... the moment she would sniff it id smack her in the snout and tell her NO!.. I did this over and over.... It may sound mean but now she wont even step in there pen, and when their walking around she completly avoids them... she wont even look them in their eyes


----------



## jtrux

*RE: Another Dog Story (Why tortoises and dogs DO NOT MIX. No exceptions!)*

Although your method worked i'm a little concerned. I'd suggest in the future a different method only because your dog is supposed to trust you and by offering the tort to the dog and then correcting it, you're sending mixed signals. I'm not a dog expert but when it comes to training a dog you have to think like they do. You're the (hate to quote The Dog Whisperer but I am) pack leader and you have to be consistent all the time. 

I'm not trying to sound like an a$$, just giving my opinion so don't take it personal.


----------



## tort1

*Cats and Tortoises*

Hi Tom

I may be getting a Sulcata tortoise but I already have a cat, the cat is 4 years old and the tortise is going to be a baby if I gwt him. Can cats and tortises mis together?


----------



## tortoise3456

*RE: Another Dog Story (Why tortoises and dogs DO NOT MIX. No exceptions!)*

That's so horrible, I'm terribly sorry for your loss  I hope that they're in a better place..


----------



## Tom

*RE: Cats and Tortoises*



tort1 said:


> Hi Tom
> 
> I may be getting a Sulcata tortoise but I already have a cat, the cat is 4 years old and the tortise is going to be a baby if I gwt him. Can cats and tortises mis together?



Sometimes. The safe bet would be to have an enclosure that restricts the cats access to the tortoise, thereby eliminating any risk. Coincidentally, a closed up enclosure is also the best thing you can do to house your new baby. Read this:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/thread-32333.html


----------



## Team Gomberg

*RE: Another Dog Story (Why tortoises and dogs DO NOT MIX. No exceptions!)*

I understand the dog/small tortoise concerns and risks. 

I wonder though if there is hesitation with a dog and tort being left alone if the animals in question were a 100+lb sulcata that free roams the yard and the family "chihuahua/pom/pug" that just goes out to potty. 

Can even a little dog hurt a big tortoise?? I am thinking the danger would be the other way around, lol. Tort chasing the toy breed dog??

Does anyone with think its ok/less of a risk/nothing to worry about to have their LARGE sulcata's be around fairly small or medium sized dogs?? Or is that still a no-no danger possibility to the tortoise?


----------



## Tom

*RE: Another Dog Story (Why tortoises and dogs DO NOT MIX. No exceptions!)*

Still a risk for both animals. Sometimes the small dogs will still chew on a big tortoise. They can gnaw on them like a giant cow hoof. Many tortoises will just close up in their shell and wait for the "predator" to go away. Chihuahuas might be less likely to do this, but small terriers are much more likely. Some tortoises will start doing some herky jerky ramming. If a small dog gets caught between a hard place and a big tortoise, it could easily have bones broken or be killed.


----------



## sibi

*RE: Another Dog Story (Why tortoises and dogs DO NOT MIX. No exceptions!)*

I'm so glad you wrote about your experience, Tom, because many here are rethinking how vulnerable their torts can be, even if the owner doesn't have a dog. It's experiences like this that can make a person so passionate about careless owners who's torts have died and /or have seriously been attacked by their dog. However painful it has been for you, I appreciate and share your passion. Because I've read your experience, I will forever internalize that pain as if I had gone through it myself. I have never trusted dogs or even other people enough to leave my babies w/o my being there. Sorry that you had to go through this so that no one else has to!


----------



## jaydog6644

*RE: Another Dog Story (Why tortoises and dogs DO NOT MIX. No exceptions!)*

team tort!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


my friends tortoise was killed by his dog:/


----------



## surie_the_tortoise

*RE: Another Dog Story (Why tortoises and dogs DO NOT MIX. No exceptions!)*

Tom you sir are a good man for telling that story with dignity. sorry for the loss of you and your family.


----------



## TortyTom

*RE: Another Dog Story (Why tortoises and dogs DO NOT MIX. No exceptions!)*

Tom, I'm so sorry, this just breaks my heart!


----------



## emysbreeder

*RE: Another Dog Story*



Katherine said:


> What a tragedy. So sorry to read this. Hopefully having shared this story will spare someone else from making the same mistake.



I live in Fl. and keep Mt. tortoises in huge naturalistic outside enclosures from 3000sf. to 9000sf per pair. Having a dog with tortoises can be the worst or BEST thing you ever do for your tortoises. Ive had several dogs that pertected my tortoises, not kill or hurt them. The dogs all lived with torts safely until the dogs died of old age. My current dog is a bloodhound. I got her at the dog pound. They have a fenced area for people to get to know the dog. I took a Mt.Tortoise with me and had someone put it in the play area. We let in the "could be bad/good" pound dog and start to play with the dog. It findly find the tort. and in my case took one little lick then payed no attention to it. I've done this several times when going to someones house that has a dog for sale and sellers dont mind. Of cource after you bring it home its training training training and watching the dog out a window until you have full trust. Molly the 90lb. bloodhound has killed a huge male Raccoon and keeps people and animals out with that Bloodhound bloodcurrdeling dark. We walk the fence and she markes her terratory. She finds them for me in the tall bush in Summer. Another good dog I had was a Golden Retreiver, Hunter ,he was a good one too. So, never say never,they can be powerfull protecters if your smart about the one you choose. Vic M

organ


----------



## x-sully-x

*RE: Another Dog Story (Why tortoises and dogs DO NOT MIX. No exceptions!)*

So sorry that this has happened  Just shows how careful you need to be no matter how much trust you have in your dog.


----------



## Tortoise

*RE: Another Dog Story (Why tortoises and dogs DO NOT MIX. No exceptions!)*

Oh No.
So sorry such a tragic story Tom
Thanks for taking time to write about this to help prevent further accidents.

It must have been very difficult for you to re-live this through writing about it for us in this forum.
Thank You and accept my sympathies.


----------



## Eloise's mommy

*RE: Another Dog Story (Why tortoises and dogs DO NOT MIX. No exceptions!)*

Tom this is so terrible!! Poor babies!!


----------



## dandj425

*RE: Another Dog Story (Why tortoises and dogs DO NOT MIX. No exceptions!)*

My own story- mixed mutt who is so good and never minded the RES(red eared slider) we let wander our indoor floors sometimes. Then one summer day the RES was outside in her swimming pool sunning, done most summer days. I was at the fence/property line 20 ft away back turned. I didn't know the dog was also in the fenced in back yard. But I turned back and the dog had my RES in her mouth. It stills brings tears to talk of this 2 1/2 yrs later. Well, in those few minutes I talked to the neighbor the dog had my RES chewed but still still alive. I rushed her to the emergency vet since of course it was sunday, they weren't too aware of turtle care(UGH) but they immediately researched and we set up and emergency care plan. A sick dry tank was setup and antibiotic shots were ordered. Silver sufidine cream applied properly and limited water(my RES loves swimming) to feed as she can't eat out of water. Two months of hands on constant care!!! And nights with her even sleeping in small tank next to me as I watched her those first few days after. I have never felt so bad or guilty in my life. And I have 4 kids! Good news is she pulled through well, shell damage will always be there as a reminder of my folly. And my mutt is still here as she is the kids dog and I can't really blame the dog. My fault. Hard lesson learned. We never ever let the dog unsupervised or the turts in a way of free roam. Chicken wire helps outside inclosure but still can't rely on that. Please please never let dog near. I would have sworn before that my dog had no interest. Both animals are happy today but the scars will remain.


----------



## ben32hayt

*RE: Another Dog Story (Why tortoises and dogs DO NOT MIX. No exceptions!)*

Hi, I am sorry to hear about your loss. I know how it is to lose a beloved animal, coincidently in 2010 my dog, Lucy, and western hermann tortoise, Cocoa, both died. But Lucy and Cocoa were great friends, Cocoa used to roam the yard and Lucy would sniff her out of her hiding spot and then Cocoa would sleep next to Lucy on the grass. When Lucy died of cancer Cocoa was never the same, she never showed happiness when we rubbed her or never ate as much. One day Cocoa died for unknown reasons, to this day I still don't know why. My only thought would be depression. I read that sometimes tortoises kill themselves when their companion dies. Im still not sure and I was hoping maybe one of you guys know?
-Thanks, Ben


----------



## tortoise_man1

*RE: Another Dog Story (Why tortoises & dogs DO NOT MIX. No exceptions!)*

I am sorry about your loss so sad


----------



## SmileyKylie623

*RE: Another Dog Story (Why tortoises & dogs DO NOT MIX. No exceptions!)*

So sorry for everyone involved and their losses.  You are very right in that dogs and torts do not mix. I also like to say that cats and torts don't mix well either. When I let my tort out all the other creatures are locked up AND I don't take my eyes off of the tort when he is out.


----------



## LeopardTortLover

*RE: Another Dog Story (Why tortoises & dogs DO NOT MIX. No exceptions!)*

This actually has just made me cry :'( why do people chance it? Its so unfair on the tortoise


----------



## Nikolai13

*RE: Another Dog Story (Why tortoises & dogs DO NOT MIX. No exceptions!)*

This almost made me and Nikolai cry...


----------



## Turtle freak101

*RE: Another Dog Story (Why tortoises & dogs DO NOT MIX. No exceptions!)*

Oh my gosh!  That is so sad! You guys are so right! My dog, well trained as he is, would attack a tort if left alone.  RIP your 3 lost torts.


----------



## Chinque

*RE: Another Dog Story (Why tortoises & dogs DO NOT MIX. No exceptions!)*

Oh my... I will NEVER let my dogs near daisy


Thank you, though... Youve probably just saved me from this mistake


----------



## sibi

*RE: Another Dog Story (Why tortoises & dogs DO NOT MIX. No exceptions!)*

We just had another disaster this week on the forum. Someone's dog got a hold of her RT, and while the damage was not life-threatening, the tort's shell was damaged a little. Unfortunately, we will hear and read about many of these encounters. I think I'm gonna make a point of welcoming new ones with a warning about dogs.


----------



## isay

*RE: Another Dog Story (Why tortoises & dogs DO NOT MIX. No exceptions!)*

oh...i felt bad about this...hmmm you know a dog can also eat a frog


----------



## kmarkovich

*RE: Another Dog Story (Why tortoises & dogs DO NOT MIX. No exceptions!)*

How awful  My Sulcata is bigger than my small dog and too intimidating for my "big" dog. Though they are never alone together, they always mind their own when in the yard. These things happen all the time. I, too, work in vet ER-land and see mostly cats getting their behinds handed to them by family pets but it just goes to show that mixing species can have horrible outcomes. My dogs and my cats get along famously but I still kennel my dogs when I am not home just in case. 

I am so sorry for the loss of your friends tort's. That is just plain awful.


----------



## Blessed3x

*RE: Another Dog Story (Why tortoises & dogs DO NOT MIX. No exceptions!)*

This post so rings true to those who think their dogs are well trained and won't, or whose dogs never shown interest
before or who has a spouse in the yard and you think they are keeping an eye on things, DON'T
We recently had this happen with our Russian girl, Madeline, one of our senior dogs decided to go into it's enclosure and
pick it up and take it out. My husband was clueless as to what was going on even though he was sitting only 30 ft away.
Luckily my granddaughter who was also outside was attentive and immediately retrieved poor Madeline from Munich
and came and got me immediately. Hubby is working on fencing off the tort area from the dog area and we're now adding tops to all enclosures.
Since they are not left outside at night we didn't have tops. Thank goodness Madeline was ok and my granddaughter was quick thinking and 
quick acting.
.


----------



## Klebbie

*RE: Another Dog Story (Why tortoises & dogs DO NOT MIX. No exceptions!)*

I am so sorry for your loss, I was so moved that you were able to share this story so we all could learn from it before the same type of sorrow happened to some one else. Thank you and again I am sorry for your loss.


----------



## SANDRA_MEISSNEST

*Re: Another Dog Story (Why tortoises & dogs DO NOT MIX. No exceptions!)*

Wow this is horrible i have 3 dogs but never had a problem even when im not around also i have chickens they all share the same area. But u never know... How old is the dog? 

Sent from my ZTE N9120 using TortForum mobile app


----------



## SarahBish

*RE: Another Dog Story (Why tortoises & dogs DO NOT MIX. No exceptions!)*

Hi I just wanted to say I couldn't agree more I've had a recently bad experience with my breeding female tortoise. My dog attacked her not once but twice she actually broke through a greenhouse to get to her she survived the attacks but unfortunately had to make a very hard decision and put her to sleep as she developed septicaemia and I just knew she wasn't right! So as much as you Love your Dog Never Ever Leave Your Dog alone with your tortoises I cannot stress enough how important this is ! So many people have said to me oh my dog wouldn't touch the tortoise! Well trust me I'd post the pics of my poor girl if I thought it would make a difference ! You can't blame the dog it's there natural instincts its us owners that are too blame so please please please Keep your Shell kids safe from your fur kids .


----------



## the567spud

*Another Dog Story (Why tortoises & dogs DO NOT MIX. No exceptions!)*

Yes! I have heard that you can mix dogs and tortoises. Don't though because they are so variable and aggressive, to tortoises when angry.


Edward. B


----------



## wellington

*RE: Another Dog Story (Why tortoises & dogs DO NOT MIX. No exceptions!)*



the567spud said:


> Yes! I have heard that you can mix dogs and tortoises. Don't though because they are so variable and aggressive, to tortoises when angry.
> 
> 
> Edward. B



Not sure what you mean by Yes! This thread is about you Can Not mix tortoises and dogs. Anyone that says you can will soon have a mauled of dead tortoise.


----------



## jessica_rose

*RE: Another Dog Story (Why tortoises & dogs DO NOT MIX. No exceptions!)*

this is so sad to hear! i have the same thing tort and dog only the dog is in love with the tort and will walk with it in the yard lay and sleep by it lick it and watch it for hours. if anyone gets to close to my tort while it is in the yard the dog will immediately protect it.


----------



## Tom

*RE: Another Dog Story (Why tortoises & dogs DO NOT MIX. No exceptions!)*



jessica_rose said:


> this is so sad to hear! i have the same thing tort and dog only the dog is in love with the tort and will walk with it in the yard lay and sleep by it lick it and watch it for hours. if anyone gets to close to my tort while it is in the yard the dog will immediately protect it.



Many dogs are protective of their toys and food sources.


----------



## wellington

*RE: Another Dog Story (Why tortoises & dogs DO NOT MIX. No exceptions!)*



jessica_rose said:


> this is so sad to hear! i have the same thing tort and dog only the dog is in love with the tort and will walk with it in the yard lay and sleep by it lick it and watch it for hours. if anyone gets to close to my tort while it is in the yard the dog will immediately protect it.



I know it would be great to think that your dog and tort are best friends. They are not. Please learn from those that have learned the hard way. Do not let your dog near your tort, at least not without 100% supervision, meaning, not for a second do you let your attention wonder. It only takes a second for your tort to be injured. Not only do some dogs protect their food or toys as Tom said. Some dogs also hoard their treats/food/toys to lick and play with, until they are ready to eat it, chew it or toss it in the air.


----------



## luvpetz27

*RE: Another Dog Story (Why tortoises & dogs DO NOT MIX. No exceptions!)*

This happened to me yesterday!! My dog grabbed my boxie and tried to burry him!! Thank goodness he was ok but there can not be a next time!! My dog was very sneaky about it too!
My sweet boxie is very lucky to be alive.


----------



## AnnV

*Re: Another Dog Story (Why tortoises & dogs DO NOT MIX. No exceptions!)*

I'd like to express condolences to all involved. I'm sure the dog owner was in a terrible state as well. 
I have kept mixed species all my life. I learned as a very young child, when our dog got hold of a beloved budgie. I also had a friend whose greyhound attacked another friend's dbl yellow head parrot, who eventually died of the injuries. They all just kind of "didn't think" when the visitor was turned loose in a house where the bird was playing loose in another room. You can't be careful enough. Human error is most often the cause, as in this terrible story. Ppl forget, or get sidetracked. 
I have a mix of dogs, cats, horses, chickens, and now the torts. All of my tort enclosures are covered. My dogs are VERY curious. They would obey and know the command "leave it" but if I were not there to give the leave it command, all bets are off. I wouldnt even take a chance with my 15 year old who hardly has any teeth!

Once we make our move to FL, I am going to put up 6' walk in kennels for the torts. These will also be covered. 


Ann from CT


----------



## DawnH

*RE: Another Dog Story (Why tortoises & dogs DO NOT MIX. No exceptions!)*

Oh my gosh. Tears streaming, not only is this heartbreaking but I feel so much for you Tom, the children (we have five) the uncle, the mom and dad (trying to explain it all) and just everyone involved. We have five dogs, chickens, cats, ferret, birds and the like. Everyone always comments on how well they all get along. Not only do we have them trained, but in all honesty we don't leave them alone - not even for one second! That is all it takes. We have many natural predators that will be living in our back yard (our chickens, dogs, cats and any stray that might happen to get in. They have never yet, but I am trying to be prepared) and I want our wee baby Sulcata SAFE. I have planned an outdoor kiddie pool set up right outside the French doors where I work (I work from home.) It will be covered and if I have to leave, the wee one will come inside to his/her secure location. I will be damn sure to keep this story in mind the entire time we have this baby. It just breaks my heart. I am so sorry for your loss and I grieve for these poor kids.


----------



## Tom

*RE: Another Dog Story (Why tortoises & dogs DO NOT MIX. No exceptions!)*



DawnH said:


> Oh my gosh. Tears streaming, not only is this heartbreaking but I feel so much for you Tom, the children (we have five) the uncle, the mom and dad (trying to explain it all) and just everyone involved. We have five dogs, chickens, cats, ferret, birds and the like. Everyone always comments on how well they all get along. Not only do we have them trained, but in all honesty we don't leave them alone - not even for one second! That is all it takes. We have many natural predators that will be living in our back yard (our chickens, dogs, cats and any stray that might happen to get in. They have never yet, but I am trying to be prepared) and I want our wee baby Sulcata SAFE. I have planned an outdoor kiddie pool set up right outside the French doors where I work (I work from home.) It will be covered and if I have to leave, the wee one will come inside to his/her secure location. I will be damn sure to keep this story in mind the entire time we have this baby. It just breaks my heart. I am so sorry for your loss and I grieve for these poor kids.



Thank you. Mission accomplished.


----------



## torilovestorts

*Another Dog Story (Why tortoises & dogs DO NOT MIX. No exceptions!)*

That's why I couldn't keep my tortoise outside.. Dogs run around everywhere. Dogs that aren't even ours.


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## ShellyTurtlesCats

*Re: Another Dog Story (Why tortoises & dogs DO NOT MIX. No exceptions!)*

Very sad.

This goes for dogs and any animal/human that is defenseless.


Not too long ago, a police officers trained dog attacked their newborn baby and killed it in just seconds. This dog was trained and worked with police!


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## Tortoise7

*RE: Another Dog Story (Why tortoises & dogs DO NOT MIX. No exceptions!)*

Thank you for this eye opening post. I, myself have dogs, but would NEVER let one come in contact with any animal of a different species. Not a cat, not a bird (we have a bird too), not a fish (yep got that covered), not a snake (guilty as charged...), not even a mouse. Dogs are great in their own right, but shouldn't be trusted (well my dogs anyway, crazy #1 and crazy #2 LOL)


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## buddysmate

*RE: Another Dog Story (Why tortoises & dogs DO NOT MIX. No exceptions!)*

Sorry for your loss. I would be heartbroken if it happened to our Buddy.

It highlights to us about paying more attention to tortoise proofing our garden as we have a very large unruly dog next door, and though we do not leave Buddy unsupervised your story shows it only takes a moment for something like that to happen.


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## Irish

*RE: Another Dog Story (Why tortoises & dogs DO NOT MIX. No exceptions!)*

I am so sorry to hear such as this. You are absolutely right- it should never be risked, for this very reason.


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## peasinapod

*RE: Another Dog Story (Why tortoises & dogs DO NOT MIX. No exceptions!)*

The only dog we had in our vicinity was the neighbour's dog. I kind of feel bad in saying that I am glad she died before we got Peter (but she was really old already), but she'd always escape and enter our yard, poop in it, bury things in it etc. Whenever we brought her back the neighbours were really rude and they refused to cover the part of the fence where she escaped. They just stood there watching.

I adore dogs, but that particular dog just made me want to scream.


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## diaboliqueturtle

*Another Dog Story (Why tortoises & dogs DO NOT MIX. No exceptions!)*

Years ago as a child, we had a little Lhassa hapso (spelling?). One day we were looking at her, so cute playing with her stuffed teddy, until we realized it wasn't a teddy but our bunny rabbit! The rabbit died. It hadn't occurred to anyone to worry about that little fluffy dog. Just goes to show that you really never know.
Sincere condolences to everyone to whom those tragedies have touched.


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## tglazie

*RE: Another Dog Story (Why tortoises & dogs DO NOT MIX. No exceptions!)*

I don't keep dogs because of this, even though my family owned one when I was a wee little one. Once I got my first red eared slider, though, I wasn't interested in any warm blooded creatures, except cats, given what good mousers they are. And I also once had a neighbor whose dog would dig under the fence and into my yard, and the one time she did it, that damned dog chewed off the back of Graeculus' (my oldest pet Greek tortoise) carapace. I was incredibly lucky she didn't kill him. Vet fiberglassed the whole backside of Graeculus' shell, though it never healed to the original pattern and remains scarred. I solved the dog problem with two lines of cinder blocks and some railroad ties, held into place by rebar and sand, all braced against the fence on my side. That dog stayed on her side of the fence until her owners moved out. I felt bad for the dog, ultimately. Her owners never paid her any attention. She was so damned bored she would uproot any new shrubs or small trees they planted in the backyard. Some people just shouldn't have dogs. But yeah, I don't need a dog. I have enough dogs to worry about with all the unsupervised ones running amok. 

T.G.


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## reatrocity

*RE: Another Dog Story (Why tortoises & dogs DO NOT MIX. No exceptions!)*

I'm so sorry.  Planning to get a lil' Hermann's tortoise. I have a loving Boston Terrier as well. Even as someone who never has owned a tortoise, I would never consider my Boston even getting close to one. Regardless, this is food for thought as I continue researching for my new Hermann. Again, I'm sorry.


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## barb121375

*RE: Another Dog Story (Why tortoises & dogs DO NOT MIX. No exceptions!)*

Very sad, sorry for your loss. 
I wonder what it is that makes dogs want to attack tortoises? I am very new to being a tortoise mom (two weeks tomorrow) I have a 14 year old Yorkie (Baily) who weighs about 5 pounds and is going blind and deaf. She has been around other animals of all varieties, her WHOLE life. I have never seen he so much as squeak at another animal. Yet she pays a lot of attention to Norman and has even lifted a front paw in a hunting pose. Norman is never left unsupervised and we keep Bailey away from him at all times. But it still facinates my that my little old dog that has never shown an ounce of aggression can behave so differently around Norm! Being as old as she is, Baily doesn't have much time left and we don't have plans to get another dog in the future.


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## TortoiseJimmy

*RE: Another Dog Story (Why tortoises & dogs DO NOT MIX. No exceptions!)*

Very sorry about your loss. 
I have a tortoise and he roams in my 600 square meter garden and he has lived there for about 7 years. On the other hand, I have a adult golden retriever (they share the garden land) which ive had for about 6 years so the Bradley (tortoise) came first and they have always gotten along well. I guess this proves your theory about dogs and tortoises wrong but still. Bradley and Louie (my dog) probably have a 1 in a million friendship. 
Anyways, My condolences for your loss. 
Bye.


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## Yvonne G

*RE: Another Dog Story (Why tortoises & dogs DO NOT MIX. No exceptions!)*



TortoiseJimmy said:


> Very sorry about your loss.
> I have a tortoise and he roams in my 600 square meter garden and he has lived there for about 7 years. On the other hand, I have a adult golden retriever (they share the garden land) which ive had for about 6 years so the Bradley (tortoise) came first and they have always gotten along well. I guess this proves your theory about dogs and tortoises wrong but still. Bradley and Louie (my dog) probably have a 1 in a million friendship.
> Anyways, My condolences for your loss.
> Bye.



It just hasn't happened to you YET. Just give it time. Eventually you are going to be one of those who say, "My dog chewed my tortoise, but she never showed an interest in the tortoises in all the years we've had her."


----------



## Tom

*RE: Another Dog Story (Why tortoises & dogs DO NOT MIX. No exceptions!)*



TortoiseJimmy said:


> I guess this proves your theory about dogs and tortoises wrong but still.



First of all, I offered no theory. I just related what happened to a friend.

Secondly, almost everyone whose dog chewed up their tortoise thought that everything was fine and that their dog would never hurt their tortoise. That's how it happens.

Has there ever been a dog and a tortoise that shared a backyard without incident? Yes. Of course. But you seem to have missed the entire point of the story.

DON'T TAKE THE RISK. Leaving the two of them loose together and unsupervised is literally gambling with the tortoises life.


----------



## nancykj

*RE: Another Dog Story (Why tortoises & dogs DO NOT MIX. No exceptions!)*

hey all..
just for another perspective on the dog vs tort (ie why they do not mix no exceptions) there are always exceptions

my german shepherd dog has been guarding my 2 desert tortoises for the past 9 1/2 years. her job is to alert me when they confront each other in the yard and start the head bobbing thing. both guys have their own enclosures, but i like to let them out in the whole yard when i am there to supervise. but, that might mean i am in the house. they are never out of their enclosures if i am no physically at the house. i always have the dog out in the yard with them to keep an eye on them. both are males. she lets me know, without fail, when they get too close to each other. with a very distinctive bark/yelp. In fact, she recognizes each by name, and will find them for me in the yard..where's ares? she finds ares. where's joxer? she finds joxer.
before my GSD, i had a great pyrennes who also zealously guarded the torts, and everything else in the yard .
before both of them, i had a collie/shepherd mix who also guarded and herded the torts, always very gently.
and not to forget my pugs...my first was with the torts her entire life of 14 years, and her only fault was that she would take the food out of their mouths. literally. and the torts were so patient with her.
my young pug, 2 years old, does the same thing. will take their food as they are eating it. and the tortoises tolerate it and just eat around her.
so, altho i agree with most of the posts that you must be extremely careful with the dog/tort exposure, i respectfully disagree that dogs and torts do not mix and there are no exceptions.


----------



## Tom

*RE: Another Dog Story (Why tortoises & dogs DO NOT MIX. No exceptions!)*

One of our moderators added those parenthesized words. They are not mine. I wish they hadn't added them, but I was not asked.

However, your stories of good luck are not helpful for preventing tortoises from being chewed up by people's dogs who mistakenly believe that their dogs will behave like your dogs did.

I'm sure there are thousands of stories like yours of dogs and tortoise sharing a backyard without incident. There are also thousands of dead and maimed tortoises from people with good intentions who never imagined their dog would do such a thing. The point of the original post is to caution people to not risk unsupervised contact with dogs and tortoises EVER. By relating your stories here, you are basically encouraging the opposite. Do you really think the average person should just turn their dog loose in the yard with their tort and assume all will be okay? I don't. I think if you find a few tortoise vets and ask to see their "tortoises mauled by dogs" photos, you might change your tune. I've seen dozens of these photos and dozens of dead or mauled tortoises first hand too and let me tell you, it ain't cool.

Forgive me if my reply seems unkind. Preventing tortoises from being eaten alive means more to me than your feelings, or anyone else's feelings for that matter. I know that might sound harsh, but if you had ever held just one eviscerated, bloody, but still ALIVE tortoise in your hands, I don't think you'd go around telling people how its just fine to mix dogs and tortoises sometimes.


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## mtdavis254817

*Re: Another Dog Story (Why tortoises & dogs DO NOT MIX. No exceptions!)*

I think the NO EXCEPTION rubs people the wrong way. Like people all dogs are different... There are dogs out there that won't hurt a tortoise. I'm not saying you should give them the chance to find out. I trust my pit bull with my torts but I still keep the electric fences on.. Hell I trust my kids with my torts but I still keep the electric fences on..


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## wellington

*RE: Another Dog Story (Why tortoises & dogs DO NOT MIX. No exceptions!)*

I think too many people are taking offense. No one wants to think their dog could hurt another family member, or that their dog is vicious enough, or disobedient enough to hurt a tortoise. The thing is, it doesn't have to be a "dog attack". It's a dog "playing" with a ball that is now moving, dog is thinking its a toy or a game of some sort. The dog isn't intentionally hurting the tortoise, it's just picking up or chewing on a ball, that ball just happens to be your tortoise. All my animals live happy together. Dog, cat, bird, lizards, at one point, hedgehog, rats, hamster, tortoise. Never one bothering the other. Would I turn my back and walk to another room or get distracted, and not know where each one was, NO! 100% attention had to be on each animal. If I couldn't give 100%, they didn't get to be by each other. Would I promote this to anyone, NO! Most of the "dog attacks, bites or mauled" my tortoise, we have seen on here, the person just looked away for a second. It's just so much safer to not do it, period! Every dog, EVERY dog has a line it will cross.


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## hunterk997

*Another Dog Story (Why tortoises & dogs DO NOT MIX. No exceptions!)*



mtdavis254817 said:


> I think the NO EXCEPTION rubs people the wrong way. Like people all dogs are different... There are dogs out there that won't hurt a tortoise. I'm not saying you should give them the chance to find out. I trust my pit bull with my torts but I still keep the electric fences on.. Hell I trust my kids with my torts but I still keep the electric fences on..



I agree with the intended point of this thread. But this post is really funny! I couldn't help myself.


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## nancykj

*RE: Another Dog Story (Why tortoises & dogs DO NOT MIX. No exceptions!)*



Tom said:


> One of our moderators added those parenthesized words. They are not mine. I wish they hadn't added them, but I was not asked.
> 
> However, your stories of good luck are not helpful for preventing tortoises from being chewed up by people's dogs who mistakenly believe that their dogs will behave like your dogs did.
> 
> I'm sure there are thousands of stories like yours of dogs and tortoise sharing a backyard without incident. There are also thousands of dead and maimed tortoises from people with good intentions who never imagined their dog would do such a thing. The point of the original post is to caution people to not risk unsupervised contact with dogs and tortoises EVER. By relating your stories here, you are basically encouraging the opposite. Do you really think the average person should just turn their dog loose in the yard with their tort and assume all will be okay? I don't. I think if you find a few tortoise vets and ask to see their "tortoises mauled by dogs" photos, you might change your tune. I've seen dozens of these photos and dozens of dead or mauled tortoises first hand too and let me tell you, it ain't cool.
> 
> Forgive me if my reply seems unkind. Preventing tortoises from being eaten alive means more to me than your feelings, or anyone else's feelings for that matter. I know that might sound harsh, but if you had ever held just one eviscerated, bloody, but still ALIVE tortoise in your hands, I don't think you'd go around telling people how its just fine to mix dogs and tortoises sometimes.


 hi tom! i was not intending that my "stories of good luck" would or would not be helpful to people who would mistakenly believe that their dogs would act as mine have, consistently, and across many breeds.
however, i respectfully feel you go way overboard in the no dog EVER thing.
i like to believe that most tort keepers are able to understand the distinction between dogs with a long known history of tort friendly behavior, and the neighbors dog. or the new dog. or the puppy.
i would worry that new tortoise keepers would read some of these posts, and get rid of their dogs.
and, that drama about eviscerated bloody, but still ALIVE tortoise, is just that, drama. of course it happens!.. and they get parasites and die and they get dehydrated and die and their burrows collapse and they die and they don't get enough calcium and they die and they flip on their backs and they die, and, oh yeah, they just die.
so, yeah! love your torts, watch them closely, monitor all interactions between them and family dogs. do not expose them to strange dogs, cats, raccoons, hippos, alligators, etc.


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## Tom

*RE: Another Dog Story (Why tortoises & dogs DO NOT MIX. No exceptions!)*

Again, I NEVER said "no dog EVER". I don't think that. Never said that. I have 30 dogs around my tortoises every day. I just don't leave them unsupervised.

Drama? Yes, I suppose it was very dramatic. Its EXTREMELY dramatic, and traumatic, every time it happens to all of the people involved.

Why on earth would you leap to someone getting rid of their dog? I never said, thought or implied that. "Keep your dog and your tortoise separate." Is a whole lot different than "Get rid of your dog." I don't want anyone to get rid of their dog. I do want everyone to keep their tortoise safe from their dog, and not fool themselves into thinking, "It can't happen here. Not with my sweet loving poochy poo."

And you are wrong about most tortoise keepers and their ability to distinguish good and bad dog behavior. Most of the tortoises that come in to vets offices all chewed up are brought in by people just like you who never though their lovely family dog would ever do such a thing. THAT is the point. ANY dog is capable of this, even yours. Mine too. If you wish to continue to gamble with your tortoises lives and think that your ability to read and train dogs exceeds everyone who has ever had their tortoise chewed up, I can't stop you. I however, will continue to advise people to keep their dogs away from their tortoises when they can't be there to directly supervise.

I mean you no insult, but I think this is a case of: You just haven't seen what I have seen yet. Your experience here seems to be your dogs in your backyard. I have been a career dog trainer for more than 20 years. I have seen thousands of dogs and situations in that time. Due to my hobbies, lifestyle and career, I also work, and am friends with, many veterinarians, so I get the benefit of their day to day experiences too. Because these people are my friends and they know of my obsession with all things tortoise, I get all sorts of tortoise calls and stories from them. This is why I told you above to talk to your vet and ask them about their tortoise and dog stories. Did you do that? It might really change your opinion on this matter. Ask your vet how many people told them that their dog "was fine with the tortoise for years" or said, "He/she's never done THAT before..."


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## ascott

*RE: Another Dog Story (Why tortoises & dogs DO NOT MIX. No exceptions!)*

This is addressed to Tom;

Tom, I have to agree with the fact that dogs, as well as most other living creatures, can act within their own right when the moment hits. 

If a person has not spent a great deal of time with a variety of breeds within their lifetime (not a few breeds, but several) and have not made it their passion to learn the look, the motion and the feeling in the air that a dog gives off without action, without notice, then they are not aware. I have worked with dogs for many years in my younger days P) and have never met a dog that at some point channels their primal drive....this does not mean a dog is bad, does not mean a dog is vicious, does not mean a dog is spiteful....but does mean a dog is a wonderful dog....they are equipped with tools that "can" make them lethal to a species that is not equal.

I have a son. My son has always been around a dog or dogs within the home. I taught the dogs when my son was infant to stay clear of him, without question and abruptly at times the reminder was offered---not cruel, but not slight. As my son grew and became mobile, the rules remained the same---my son, was off limits for play, for wrestle for mock handling---off limits. My son learned from the moment I spoke to him to never put his face in the face of a creature that possessed teeth....with the explanation that anything with teeth "can" bite even if they never do.

Now, with that being said. I would never leave my son in the company of an animal that can cause great bodily injury--no matter how much I adored, loved and nurtured that animal. For you see, my son can never be made whole again in the event a moment in time should occur that an animal behaves as one "can"...my son was no match for a mouth full of teeth and loads of years of evolutionary drive....I have nothing personal against any of the dogs in the house here...I love our two dogs--but I am fully aware that at a moment in time they can, with little notice, act as the animal they are. With this understanding, there has always been peace in the household...my son has a keen sense when a dog is silently on edge and can create clear space in the event one should do what a dog does....he is respectful of the "ability" of an animal without making it personal....

So, please understand---when it is said to not let an animal (in this case, a dog) be left with a tort--it is not because Tom does not have great respect for the species but likely because he is fully aware of the irreversible damage one can create in the proper moment...he has worked with many species of animals and I am sure has honed in his abilities to sense the quiet air of an animal that is very capable of causing damage---this does not mean he is offering empty words to scare...but rather a varied range of what can happen....Tom, if I have stated incorrectly, please do not be shy in correcting me


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## Tom

*RE: Another Dog Story (Why tortoises & dogs DO NOT MIX. No exceptions!)*

Angela, as usual you have a way with words. You elaborated upon and better illuminated my point very well. Thank you.

I know of a child whose face will forever bear the scars of her mothers carelessness/recklessness from exactly the situation you describe. The sad things is that this person has throughout the years argued with me and disagreed with me about this very topic. The dog was "fine" according to her. Well the dog was fine, until one day the dog wasn't fine.

The point of this discussion, the point of this whole thread, is to shorten this learning curve, so that people who have never had anything bad happen can hopefully learn from the experience of others who have had something bad happen without having to suffer the same consequences of those others.

If this is to be labeled "scare tactics" then so be it. I'm okay with that label. If my tactics, whatever they are labeled, prevent a disaster like the many that I have seen, I will have accomplished my goal. Really, what do I gain from engaging in this discussion? What do I gain from encouraging tortoise and dog owners to be cautious, or put a fence between the dogs and the tortoises? I'm not selling anything. I have no "company" that gives me a financial reward for swaying people one way or the other. Its all about the animals. I don't want to see anyone's tortoise chewed up, and I don't want to see anyone's dog looked upon in any unfavorable way because the dog was allowed to do what dogs do. That is it. Nothing more.


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## nancykj

*RE: Another Dog Story (Why tortoises & dogs DO NOT MIX. No exceptions!)*



Tom said:


> Again, I NEVER said "no dog EVER". I don't think that. Never said that. I have 30 dogs around my tortoises every day. I just don't leave them unsupervised.
> 
> Drama? Yes, I suppose it was very dramatic. Its EXTREMELY dramatic, and traumatic, every time it happens to all of the people involved.
> 
> Why on earth would you leap to someone getting rid of their dog? I never said, thought or implied that. "Keep your dog and your tortoise separate." Is a whole lot different than "Get rid of your dog." I don't want anyone to get rid of their dog. I do want everyone to keep their tortoise safe from their dog, and not fool themselves into thinking, "It can't happen here. Not with my sweet loving poochy poo."
> 
> And you are wrong about most tortoise keepers and their ability to distinguish good and bad dog behavior. Most of the tortoises that come in to vets offices all chewed up are brought in by people just like you who never though their lovely family dog would ever do such a thing. THAT is the point. ANY dog is capable of this, even yours. Mine too. If you wish to continue to gamble with your tortoises lives and think that your ability to read and train dogs exceeds everyone who has ever had their tortoise chewed up, I can't stop you. I however, will continue to advise people to keep their dogs away from their tortoises when they can't be there to directly supervise.
> 
> I mean you no insult, but I think this is a case of: You just haven't seen what I have seen yet. Your experience here seems to be your dogs in your backyard. I have been a career dog trainer for more than 20 years. I have seen thousands of dogs and situations in that time. Due to my hobbies, lifestyle and career, I also work, and am friends with, many veterinarians, so I get the benefit of their day to day experiences too. Because these people are my friends and they know of my obsession with all things tortoise, I get all sorts of tortoise calls and stories from them. This is why I told you above to talk to your vet and ask them about their tortoise and dog stories. Did you do that? It might really change your opinion on this matter. Ask your vet how many people told them that their dog "was fine with the tortoise for years" or said, "He/she's never done THAT before..."



no insult at all taken tom. i am able to have a difference of opinion with you without hurt feelings. i do appreciate that you have alot of experience with dogs and tortoises and i enjoy your posts and your perspective


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## stinax182

*Re: Another Dog Story (Why tortoises & dogs DO NOT MIX. No exceptions!)*

i actually have a story of this happening with a friends tort and a pet cat. 

the cat was an 8 year old fixed female....she was very calm and wouldn't bother to catch a dying bird in front of her. the tortoise and cat had never had problems. i personally thought the cat didn't even see the tortoise as anything other than a moving rock, hardly turned a head at it. the cat had free run of the house except the tort room. until one day the owner was soaking the tort and left the door open and the cat attacked the tort in it's soaking bucket ): it wasn't seriously injured, but the cat did naw at it and didn't leave until the owner returned.


i also had a 10 year old pet raccoon i had hand raised from birth that had never hunted in it's life or even seen anything worth hunting that one day crawled to the top of a book case, knocked down my 10g aquarium and ate my aquatic turtles.


anything with a mouth and teeth can and will bite whether it be from instincts, survival or food. and anyone who thinks they know mother nature are fooling themselves and risking their pets. there's no opinion in that.


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## wellington

*RE: Another Dog Story (Why tortoises & dogs DO NOT MIX. No exceptions!)*

Just wanted this to pop up again, as some people just don't get it, or are know it alls in just a few months. With some new members, figured this would be a good time to have this up front again.


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## sueb4653

*RE: Another Dog Story (Why tortoises & dogs DO NOT MIX. No exceptions!)*

I have to agree don't mix the two, I just got a dog and the first thing that happened was this...
before the dog 





after the dog




it is just not worth the risk for such a simple fix..


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## ecstasyrs90

*Re: Another Dog Story (Why tortoises & dogs DO NOT MIX. No exceptions!)*

This makes me sick to my stomach reading. One big reason I will never own a dog. My torts are way too important. Many people need to know dogs n tortoises and turtles do not mix, dogs more or less see them as chew toys or bones. So not worth it.


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## Kele7710

*RE: Another Dog Story (Why tortoises & dogs DO NOT MIX. No exceptions!)*

Hi 6 weeks a go my dog stole my 2 year old Hermann out of his tortoise table which is on a high stand, Â£500 later in vet bills my Stanley is doing great I caught my dog just in time didn't think it would be possible my dog could get that high  I only had Stanley the tortoise 3 days when this happened, big big lesson learnt and am grateful for my tortoise specialist vet


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## Aretino

*RE: Another Dog Story (Why tortoises & dogs DO NOT MIX. No exceptions!)*



Tom said:


> DOGS AND TORTOISES SHOULD NEVER NEVER NEVER BE LEFT ALONE TOGETHER!!!!!!!!!!!!



I have two cats and was apprehensive about how they would react to the tortoise, fearing they would claw at her or bite, and perhaps harm her eyes. So I watched the interactions of cat and turtle very carefully the first year. When outdoors, the motion of Dinette in the grass would sometimes attract the attention of one of the cats, but one cautious sniff would inspire utter disinterest. After a year of observation, I am satisfied the cats now have no interest whatsoever in Dinette, and she feels the same about them. There is a ladder next to the tortarium which the small cat loves to sit atop, trolling for attention. It is easy for him to get into the tortarium from this ladder, something I have tried to discourage sternly, mostly out of fear that it will prove temping as a cat box, a really, really bad idea. But still, the little cat has trouble resisting the warmth, and I sometimes find him stretched out serenely, basking along with Dinette. They both ignore each other. I once found the small cat stretched out full length, sleeping with his head inside the hide. Dozing at the other side of the hide was Dinette. There have been no attempts to use the tortarium as a cat box. Dogs can't get into the yard, but I am apprehensive about raccoons and foxes during the part of the year when Dinette lives outdoors. For a while, I brought her in at night, but she has a good hide and is very adept at concealing herself, so she now sleeps out during warm weather, returning to the tortarium only when the weather cools. We recently had a mind-boggling rain event, receiving 17" of rain in about a week's time, causing severe flooding in some areas. Dinette spent the whole time in her tortarium, basking under the heat lamp.


----------



## Tom

*RE: Another Dog Story (Why tortoises & dogs DO NOT MIX. No exceptions!)*

Aretino, I would love to see pics of what you describe.


----------



## Aretino

*RE: Another Dog Story (Why tortoises & dogs DO NOT MIX. No exceptions!)*




Tom said:


> Aretino, I would love to see pics of what you describe.



Here is Little hogging the heat/UV lamps. Unfortunately, he was not caught on camera with his head in the hide. He knows I don't want him in there, so he is very stealthy and quiet when he visits.


----------



## Kele7710

*Another Dog Story (Why tortoises & dogs DO NOT MIX. No exceptions!)*

That is cute


----------



## bouaboua

*RE: Another Dog Story (Why tortoises & dogs DO NOT MIX. No exceptions!)*

13 Tortoise. 0 Dog. But the cat from my next door will come visit.


----------



## AnnV

*Re: RE: Another Dog Story (Why tortoises & dogs DO NOT MIX. No exceptions!)*



Aretino said:


> Tom said:
> 
> 
> 
> Aretino, I would love to see pics of what you describe.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is Little hogging the heat/UV lamps. Unfortunately, he was not caught on camera with his head in the hide. He knows I don't want him in there, so he is very stealthy and quiet when he visits.
Click to expand...


Have to admit, that is cute.


----------



## Bullet2013

*RE: Another Dog Story (Why tortoises & dogs DO NOT MIX. No exceptions!)*

This is a terribly sad story and I am so glad I read it. This is day one for me on the site and one of your members put the link for me to read as a new tortoise owner. I have a 2 lb Chihuahua who is so tiny I thought once Bullet got bigger they could be around each other. No way will I take the risk to either on of them because just as everyone has posted....animals will be animals and they have natural instincts they surcome to no matter how docile they may have always been. Thanks for the information, I am continuing to read all the links provided to make sure I know as much as I can to raise a healthy. happy tortoise.


----------



## Team Gomberg

My newly adopted CDT had his front left limb chewed off by a pit bull. They must have been left alone long enough for the dog to devour the entire limb before anyone noticed 



No dogs should be left *alone* with tortoises.


----------



## AnnV

Poor baby! How does he do with the missing limb?


----------



## Team Gomberg

*Re: RE: Anthr Dog Story (Why tortoises & dogs DO NOT MIX. No exceptions!)*



AnnV said:


> Poor baby! How does he do with the missing limb?



He hobbles along, slowly and awkwardly. But he does get around. We plan to do a modification for him. A wheel leg or something. I fear what long term scraping would do to his plastron.


----------



## Kele7710

Bless him


----------



## Cowboy_Ken

Heather, remember this item?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/...heel_n_4239566.html?utm_hp_ref=world&ir=World


----------



## Team Gomberg

Yes Ken! Awesome, right? 

We are doing lots of research so we can figure out the perfect "leg" for this guy. He still has a partial nub and moves it when he walks like he's trying to use it... I imagine him still doing a walking motion with it once he has a fake "leg". aww...


----------



## izel_

Poor baby.


----------



## sarah05chiariello

So sad i literly started crying!! So sorry. Our dogs are the same way but i would never leave them alone....thought i was just a paranoid mama...


----------



## Beeliz

Ohh,,My heart hurts reading this,,My sympathies on the losses of those sweet souls...


----------



## sibi

Heather, I didn't know your tort lost a limb. I feel so bad for him and I hope you get the best prosthetic for him. â˜¹

As for Tom's thread, I'm so grateful to him for sharing such an emotional story like this. It should scare anyone who owns a dog! That's why Tom will always be number one in my book!


----------



## littleginsu

Thank you, Tom and everyone else for the horrifying, cautionary tale. I am literally having a panic attack at the thought.

I have several cats and 3 chihuahuas, my Flash has her own enclosure inside and should I ever make her an outdoor enclosure it will be fully secured from top, bottom and sides. We have far too much wildlife in this area (e.g. hawks, owls, snakes, coyotes, bears, etc.) for me to take any chances with her... heck, even my chihuahuas are not allow outside without human supervision and not at all at night, for the very same reasons.



Team Gomberg said:


> He hobbles along, slowly and awkwardly. But he does get around. We plan to do a modification for him. A wheel leg or something. I fear what long term scraping would do to his plastron.



Could you maybe secure some kind of heavy cloth on its plastron to protect it from scrapping until you can get him a new leg or is that bad for them?


I might get banned for this, but http://www.etsy.com/shop/MossyTortoise... I read it helps her find her babies when they are out roaming. I am very good at crocheting and knitting and would love to make one for your guy...

Are those cozies are frowned upon or unhealthy?


----------



## erica anne

To those who who are above needing to watch their dogs around tortoises:

It is similar to this thought process: 
An individual believes that they know when they have had too many drinks to drive. They may have had a few and driven home perfectly safe numerous times and think that they are perfectly fine to do this. Then the unforeseen accident happens and someone gets seriously injured. Why risk the safety of others at all? 

That is my question. Why risk it? Maybe watching the tortoise around the dog takes too much effort?

Tom, you addressed EXACTLY what I was thinking. What do you have to gain from this? This purely for the benefit of others. 

Thanks to all of those who have shared painful stories. It is and should be a wake up call to all of us.


----------



## Kele7710

erica anne said:


> To those who who are above needing to watch their dogs around tortoises:
> 
> It is similar to this thought process:
> An individual believes that they know when they have had too many drinks to drive. They may have had a few and driven home perfectly safe numerous times and think that they are perfectly fine to do this. Then the unforeseen accident happens and someone gets seriously injured. Why risk the safety of others at all?
> 
> That is my question. Why risk it? Maybe watching the tortoise around the dog takes too much effort?
> 
> Tom, you addressed EXACTLY what I was thinking. What do you have to gain from this? This purely for the benefit of others.
> 
> Thanks to all of those who have shared painful stories. It is and should be a wake up call to all of us.


I wish I had found this forum before my dog attacked Stanley  I only had him 3 days  anyway he's on the mend and I've found this forum now so big lesson learnt


----------



## tortoisetime565

I completely agree. Our dogs find random box turtles and bring them to the door and we always take them before they can do anything. We have a kind of what I call "turtle reserve" (my grandpas back yard near a creek) and we leave them there. We see them every time they come up from hibernation. I can't even imagine losing one of my torts. Ever! I feel so sorry for poor Horace.


----------



## Karen1991

My dog jumps up on the couch when shelly goes near her. Think she is scared of her.


----------



## Tom

Karen1991 said:


> My dog jumps up on the couch when shelly goes near her. Think she is scared of her.



Don't think that means they can be left alone together. It doesn't.


----------



## Kele7710

Karen1991 said:


> My dog jumps up on the couch when shelly goes near her. Think she is scared of her.






Before & after Â£500+ vet bills later and very grateful my lil dude has made it


----------



## Yvonne G

I took this little lady in a couple days ago. She was hibernating in a cardboard box in the garage, and woke up while the keeper was away at work. She made her way out of the box and out of the garage to where the dogs were. The Russian pen has hot wire around it and it has safely deterred the dogs from the pen for over 5 years. The dog that found the tortoise was a border collie.







The little smudge of yellow that you see on the right side of the front of the platron is fat cells, which means there is an opening into the body cavity.


----------



## Kele7710

Yvonne G said:


> I took this little lady in a couple days ago. She was hibernating in a cardboard box in the garage, and woke up while the keeper was away at work. She made her way out of the box and out of the garage to where the dogs were. The Russian pen has hot wire around it and it has safely deterred the dogs from the pen for over 5 years. The dog that found the tortoise was a border collie.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The little smudge of yellow that you see on the right side of the front of the platron is fat cells, which means there is an opening into the body cavity.



Same sort of injury as Stanley then, you could see his body cavity and section on plastron would move when he breathed, that's what his resin was for to hold his body in and to help it heal, which thankfully it has and his plastron is now hard, he will always have deformed shell but hey that makes him special  hope your tort is as lucky as Stanley


----------



## littleginsu

Poor little girl... What's her prognosis?


----------



## Saleama

When I was a child we had a lab named Bratt. Bratt was a hunting dog but had a bit of a hard mouth. My dad trained her to soften up after she destroyed a prize goose that he would have mounted had she not chewed it up during retrieval. We began using Bratt for dove hunting one year to help with her training. One day she went off the retreive and disappeared. Dad was pretty mad. She came back after a few minutes witout the dove, but had a box turtle in her mouth. We were terrified she had killed it with her hard mouth, but apparently, she had received the training well as there was not a mark on the turtle. Bratt retrieved dozens of box turtles in her career as a labrador dove retriever and not a single one was ever harmed more than the stress of being captured by a big dog, lol. Every turtle was brought home and evaluated before bing returned to their field. My uncle also had a dachsund that would hunt in the garden and bring him baby box turtles. He found 5 or 6 of the 19 we found a few years ago. He also never harmed a single one (of course, he very well could have eaten some and brought the others to my uncle thinking to save them for a latter snack). My two mini snausers are terrified of my baby sulcatas and leopards. They actually whine when they see them. Having said all of that, I would sooner put my hand in the garbage disposal and turn it on than leave my babies alone with my dogs. A scared dog will only run so many times before it will attack. A curious dog will chew a poor tort to death quickly. I have seen these cute little dogs chew large bones to nothing in minutes and can not imagine one of my babies going through that.


----------



## Yvonne G

Prognosis is good. She ate a big meal yesterday - first day in a new place, being chewed by a dog, indoors instead of outside - so I'd say she's probably going to make it.


----------



## Tom

Stephen, please don't put your hand in the garbage disposal...


----------



## noah19

This story really makes me sad. But your experience will be a great guide for us. Thanks for sharing it...


----------



## MsBijou

I did not read this thread, did not read the "gory details" of the OP but I do want to say THANK YOU for posting this! I had my tort on the floor in a cement pan but 5 minutes after I read this I got his pan up on the table!! 

I have a 6lb Poodle and a 4lb Chihuahua and did not even THINK about them bothering the tort. I've been so concerned with heat/light/food/substrate, etc. that protecting the poor guy from my dogs literally slipped my mind . He's safe now though. I wouldn't put it past my Chihuahua to mess with him, Poodle either. Any dog should be considered untrustworthy to be left unattended. Better safe than sorry!!


----------



## RandomGuy11270

Damn that's a sad story


----------



## Tank'sMom

Tom said:


> My best friend has a group of russians. One male, three females. He and I have similar backgrounds and interest in reptiles. We experienced the big boom of reptile popularity together in the early 90's. We have a habit of swapping reptiles back and forth. We had a water monitor that we shared and a pair of dog tame amethystine pythons, recently some bearded dragons and a couple of snakes had an extended visit with me... you get the idea. Well he got married and had kids before I did and when his first son was a few years old, "Uncle Tom", bought him a hatchling russian at a reptile show that we all attended together. His son named the tortoise Horace. That was around 8 years ago. As Horace grew and thrived, my friend added a young CB female. As Horace reached maturity he predictably got aggressive with his female and so my buddy added a couple more females to make a nice group. He built a large outdoor pen and his tortoises have done very well living outdoors for him in the warm dry CA air. Recently he bought a new house with a huge backyard and moved his adult tortoise group into a large new outdoor pen with lots of nooks and crannies and hidey holes. Horace, and his hopefully upcoming offspring, were intended to be in our family for many generations...
> 
> My friend's wife's Uncle Joe (not his real name) has been having some health issues and has not been able to get out with his dog as often as he'd like. He asked if he could turn his dog loose in the big backyard for some exercise. The dog was a medium sized mutt, very well trained, well behaved, great with the kids, great with all people, and he had been to the house many times before. The dog never showed any interest in the tortoises or their pen way over on the far side of the yard and was not "critter crazy", in any way. The uncle is a good man. I know him and his family well. He understood about the tortoises, knew about them and agreed that the dog would never be left unsupervised in the backyard and that he would remain with the dog at all times. He had been over with the dog several times without incident. The dog NEVER showed any interest whatsoever in the tortoises or their pen. All went well on the current visit and uncle Joe sat in the backyard with his dog while it exercised and played. The time came to leave and Uncle Joe stepped into the house to say his goodbyes. Goodbye turned into a conversation and conversation turned into a discussion. We've all done this, I'm sure. Mind you, all of the people involved are intelligent, thoughtful, decent people. We are not talking about apethetic people who don't know any better, or don't care.
> 
> My buddy came home from work, greeted the family, and went to his room to change out of his work clothes. Outside the bedroom window he could see uncle Joe's dog chewing on something. Never even thinking of the tortoises, he went outside to see what the dog had found... To his shock and horror the dog was gnawing on, and removing pieces from one of the adult female russians. She was still alive while the dog worked on her, but she was too far gone to be saved. To his further shock and horror, Horace was in many pieces just a few feet away. Horace and his female are dead. Gone forever. They will not be bringing joy to our families any longer. This tortoise was to grow up with my nephew and still be his companion when they were both old men. Just a few minutes of inattention is all it took. Done. I am shocked, horrified, angry, sad, and rapidly approaching numb from thinking about it.
> 
> This is not about temperament or training. It is simply a dog's natural instincts. Any dog, any breed, any time, any level of training. I am a professional dog trainer. My dogs are the best trained dogs in the entire country and I have the National trophies to prove it. I allow my dogs around all of my tortoises of all species and sizes frequently, but NEVER, unsupervised. Please believe me when I say:
> 
> DOGS AND TORTOISES SHOULD NEVER NEVER NEVER BE LEFT ALONE TOGETHER!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> Not for a minute, not for one second. Not while you go to the bathroom. Not while you quickly answer the phone. Not while you check on the kids. Not while you bid farewell to beloved family members for the evening... Everyone makes mistakes, but some things should just NOT be left to chance.
> 
> This one hit very close to home with me, but I have seen it many times. Blood on the dog and adults hands, tears on the children's faces... Spread the word people. Don't let this happen!


OMG!!! That is soooooo scary! So horrific!!!! I am very careful about keeping the dogs away from Tank (I have 2 German Shepherds). He's roaming the back yard as I type this, the dogs are locked out front. I need to hurry up and finish his proper pen! You just gave me more motivation. 
I'm so sorry for you, your friend and the boy.


----------



## Maggie Cummings

Tank'sMom said:


> OMG!!! That is soooooo scary! So horrific!!!! I am very careful about keeping the dogs away from Tank (I have 2 German Shepherds). He's roaming the back yard as I type this, the dogs are locked out front. I need to hurry up and finish his proper pen! You just gave me more motivation.
> I'm so sorry for you, your friend and the boy.


I warned you that story would get to you. I still get teary-eyed when I read it. So you now understand why I cannot stress enough how serious it is between dogs and tortoises. On the other side, a tort like Bob or Tank can break bones in a smaller fragile dog. I read about a large Sulcata cornering a lab and breaking it's leg. So torts can also be dangerous to dogs...


----------



## Tank'sMom

maggie3fan said:


> I warned you that story would get to you. I still get teary-eyed when I read it. So you now understand why I cannot stress enough how serious it is between dogs and tortoises. On the other side, a tort like Bob or Tank can break bones in a smaller fragile dog. I read about a large Sulcata cornering a lab and breaking it's leg. So torts can also be dangerous to dogs...


Oh yes. That's a horrible story! I've thought about things going the other way around too. Tank found our sweet potato patch and dug them up. I saw him snap a huge sweet potato into bits with seemingly no effort what so ever in seconds! Those fresh sweet potatoes are hard to cut with a knife! I watch my fingers for sure!
The dogs are only around him while supervised. And the babies? No no no no where near the dogs.....


----------



## Kitkat1989

Aww this is so sad. I have 2 chihuahuas one of which loves to watch my tortoise wandering around, I would NEVER leave them alone and to be fair I usually lock the dog out of the way incase he does happen to try and pick it up. I'd never forgive myself if anything like this happened due to my negligence


----------



## torichambers

i think tortoises are fabmazing


----------



## corvettejrw

This is good info. I am new to tortoising. I have a small Shih-tzu and he completely leaves my tortoise alone, so Im not worried about him. But there are other dogs that come over sometimes and I need to keep watch!


----------



## Marie

So sad to read


----------



## sibi

corvettejrw said:


> This is good info. I am new to tortoising. I have a small Shih-tzu and he completely leaves my tortoise alone, so Im not worried about him. But there are other dogs that come over sometimes and I need to keep watch!



Sorry, but I think you missed the point. Your dog is exactly like the dog in the story. he showed no interest in the tortoises. He was the nicest dog; he would never go after the torts. Your dog is no different. You need to acknowledge that your dog can and will go after your tort given the opportunity. You need to treat your dog as you would visiting dogs!


----------



## Tom

corvettejrw said:


> This is good info. I am new to tortoising. I have a small Shih-tzu and he completely leaves my tortoise alone, so Im not worried about him. But there are other dogs that come over sometimes and I need to keep watch!



Sibi is right. You know what every person standing at the vets office with a chewed up tortoise says? Something along the lines of... "I don't understand. They got along fine for _______ years. I'm shocked."

Think about how many tortoises get chewed up by dogs. Its a lot. What percentage of those people do you think expected their dog to chew up their tortoise? I'll bet it is close to 0%. If they thought there could ever be a problem they never would have left the tortoise and dog together.

To be as direct as possible: Please do not leave your dog unsupervised with your tortoise EVER. Not even for one second. Its when you leave the area to use the rest room or answer the phone that it happens. Just lock up one or the other if you have to step away.


----------



## tmh

So sorry for your nephew. Had an old eastern since I was 10 yrs old. All my sons grew up with her. Had 36 years. One day the little neighber girl wanted to show her company. GR was killed by thier dog. Hard to to except.


----------



## Donotblink

Are there ANY CASES where tortoises & dogs lived happily ever after ? I'm guessing not. Holy Moly, ignorance is not bliss !! Fortunately, I can keep my fellows in front yard . We have a temporary corral that just got Top Priority for permanent build out. Dang. Hadn't a clue.THANK YOU


----------



## johnsonnboswell

Yes, actually, not all dog/tortoise stories end badly for the tortoise. Often the tortoise is unbothered and outlives a long series of dogs. But the risk is always there and the consequences so terrible that we cannot relax or be complacent.


----------



## Tom

johnsonnboswell said:


> Yes, actually, not all dog/tortoise stories end badly for the tortoise. Often the tortoise is unbothered and outlives a long series of dogs. But the risk is always there and the consequences so terrible that we cannot relax or be complacent.




Well said Mr. Boswell.


----------



## AnnV

tmh said:


> So sorry for your nephew. Had an old eastern since I was 10 yrs old. All my sons grew up with her. Had 36 years. One day the little neighber girl wanted to show her company. GR was killed by thier dog. Hard to to except.



OMG! That is just terrible. So sorry.


----------



## kayem

Surprisingly, my Shih Tzu is more afraid of my Russian tort than he is of her! Though I never leave the two
unsupervised, I am happy to see the two get along!


----------



## enchilada

I wonder what would a dog do to a 100+ lbs adult sulcata ?


----------



## sageharmon

enchilada said:


> I wonder what would a dog do to a 100+ lbs adult sulcata ?


Probably pee on it! XD


----------



## josh shultis

km28 said:


> Surprisingly, my Shih Tzu is more afraid of my Russian tort than he is of her! Though I never leave the two
> unsupervised, I am happy to see the two get along!
> View attachment 90545


Same! I hate to do it but i only do when supervised as well, I figure it's better they get used of each other, if the dog knows it's not supposed to be around it, an finally one day gets to it, that's when I think something bad will happen!


----------



## JennBell0725

My 3lb dog avoids my sub adults like the plague lol. She only goes in the enclosure to steal their water, mazuri, or roll in their poop. If they get within a few feet she yelps and runs away.


----------



## Krabby

I am sorry to read about the loss of the tortoises. I have three small Chihuahua's (smallest is 4 lbs). If Sophie the RT is on
the move, the Chi's get out of her way. Sophie has the right of way. I was glad to have seen the original story , it shows that you should never trust your dogs with your tortoises. Tortoises are a prey item.


----------



## Whitneyrae

I am so so sorry


----------



## blackfish707

JennBell0725 said:


> My 3lb dog avoids my sub adults like the plague lol. She only goes in the enclosure to steal their water, mazuri, or roll in their poop. If they get within a few feet she yelps and runs away.


Hilarious


----------



## RV's mom

my 40# pocket pit avoids RV. If RV is in the way of going in or out of the house, the dog has fits trying to get around her. Thankfully, Trixie is very respectful, very cautious, and wants NOTHING to do with the tort. Having said that, Trix will steal carrots from RV... And then get quickly away, lest the tort (who couldn't care less) should come after her for the stolen treat.

I would be extremely cautious with dogs and torts/turtles of any kind. No room or margin for error.
I am horrified every time I read the initial post.


----------



## Lyles

A very sad story, and a very hard lesson indeed.

I don't trust dogs and much less so. cats. I am a keeper of box turtles and ferrets, I let neither interact with each other, with another family member's dog nor the semi stray cats outside. The outdoor cats are the worst, as I have seen them kill everything, including other cats.

Years ago, back when the area around my house was surrounded by forest (now all cleared by developers) I used to look for box turtles. All I would find were their shells with lots of raccoon bite marks on them. All the wild box turtles in this area are gone now.


----------



## rabbidbros10

I'm so sorry.


----------



## Mavrik

This is quote possibly one of the most horrifying stories I've ever read. I am so sorry for your loss, RIP mr and mrs Horace!

I have tried explaining to my husband that this is why he has to watch the shellkids when they are out while the dogs are around, but he always say "oh, they'll be fine!" Yeah, wait until I make him read this story. I myself have witnessed my Morkie trying to 'play' with the shellkids (and have corrected him quickly!) 

This is so sad though!


----------



## Tom

Mavrik said:


> This is quote possibly one of the most horrifying stories I've ever read. I am so sorry for your loss, RIP mr and mrs Horace!
> 
> I have tried explaining to my husband that this is why he has to watch the shellkids when they are out while the dogs are around, but he always say "oh, they'll be fine!" Yeah, wait until I make him read this story. I myself have witnessed my Morkie trying to 'play' with the shellkids (and have corrected him quickly!)
> 
> This is so sad though!




You are on a path for disaster. Seriously. Your husband needs to understand how wrong he is about this BEFORE it is too late.


----------



## Tom

sharkstar said:


> my 40# pocket pit avoids RV. If RV is in the way of going in or out of the house, the dog has fits trying to get around her. Thankfully, Trixie is very respectful, very cautious, and wants NOTHING to do with the tort. Having said that, Trix will steal carrots from RV... And then get quickly away, lest the tort (who couldn't care less) should come after her for the stolen treat.



Don't you let my future tortoise get chewed on!!!


----------



## Mavrik

Tom said:


> You are on a path for disaster. Seriously. Your husband needs to understand how wrong he is about this BEFORE it is too late.



I finally told him that if that's the way he feels, then don't touch MY tortoises. I will have them out for play time when I am home, and he does not need to worry about them. I try not to be that kind of person, claiming things as MINE, but I'm a protective mama.

My husband is also the same guy who gets mad at our dogs when they tear up the house while he's upstairs in the bedroom, even though I've told him countless times to either crate the dogs or keep them in the bedroom if he's going to sleep. SMH.


----------



## Tom

As a married man, I can tell you: Being married isn't easy... My wife and I have these same sort of issues about some things. She can't seem to turn a light or TV off ever. We argue over the AC constantly too.


----------



## RV's mom

Tom said:


> Don't you let my future tortoise get chewed on!!!



no need to worry. Mary said last night Trixie needed to go outside, but when Mary opened the patio door, RV was front and center, blocking the path. RV was sleeping, but the dog took one look, said "no way" and ran in the opposite direction. I told Mary to take Trixie through the garage, through the gate of the boat area, and through the gate to the back yard..... Since RV was all tucked in, Mary was able to scoot her far enough from the door that Trixie could vault over her. No worries Tom. Your future tort is safe from the dog, and behind 3 gates and high cinder block fence. 

We'll keep her safe

t


----------



## Kele7710

Kele7710 said:


> View attachment 70794
> View attachment 70795
> 
> Before & after Â£500+ vet bills later and very grateful my lil dude has made it


1 year on my Stanley has doubled his weight and doing well,


----------



## AmordeAbba

What a sad story. I am very sorry for what happened.


----------



## SophieMae

Ok


----------



## Tidgy's Dad

Last week we had a cat taking a tortoises eye out.
Yesterday, a cat took the top of a tortoise's enclosure and mauled it, drawing blood and damaging the shell.
So be careful folks, it's not just dogs that are dangerous.


----------



## Lyles

Tidgy's Dad said:


> Last week we had a cat taking a tortoises eye out.
> Yesterday, a cat took the top of a tortoise's enclosure and mauled it, drawing blood and damaging the shell.
> So be careful folks, it's not just dogs that are dangerous.



Oh that's terrible! Stray/Feral cats are becoming a huge problem, even worse is there are people who even think that stray/feral cats are a good thing and feed them and allow them to breed unchecked. Call your local animal control and set up traps, they will sometimes supply them.


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## Tidgy's Dad

Lyles said:


> Oh that's terrible! Stray/Feral cats are becoming a huge problem, even worse is there are people who even think that stray/feral cats are a good thing and feed them and allow them to breed unchecked. Call your local animal control and set up traps, they will sometimes supply them.


Sorry, I wasn't clear here. I meant two separate members of Tortoise Forum.
No cat is ever allowed in my house, or near the tort enclosures outside.
And they were pet cats in the houses.


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## James de Grasse

This story is very saddening. I have two dogs (beagle and a small something) and have left them alone with my 12 year old tortoise for the past 4 years. After reading this story I am a bit worried but they have all seemed like friends throughout the years. The worst I ever see the dogs do is take his watermelon. Any thoughts?


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## Maggie Cummings

James de Grasse said:


> This story is very saddening. I have two dogs (beagle and a small something) and have left them alone with my 12 year old tortoise for the past 4 years. After reading this story I am a bit worried but they have all seemed like friends throughout the years. The worst I ever see the dogs do is take his watermelon. Any thoughts?



Mildred was a 20 yr old desert tortoise who lived with the same family all her life. They had a dog who was also about 20. He and Mildred having lived together all those years. One day the keeper came home and Mildred was missing her left front leg. The dog had evidently buried it or ate it as it was never found. He had also licked the wound until it stopped bleeding. This is a family pet of 20 years! So they gave up the tortoise and kept the dog. I got the tortoise, a dignified beautiful desert tortoise. Those are my thoughts, make of them what you will. I personally would never allow any dog around my tortoises. Now I have a kitten who's worse than any dog....


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## wellington

James de Grasse said:


> This story is very saddening. I have two dogs (beagle and a small something) and have left them alone with my 12 year old tortoise for the past 4 years. After reading this story I am a bit worried but they have all seemed like friends throughout the years. The worst I ever see the dogs do is take his watermelon. Any thoughts?


There are too many stories about tortoises being chewed by dogs. Why would you want to take the chance? Once it's happened it too late. Tom, is a dog/animal trainer. Not just sit and come, but for TV. Even he would not let his very well trained dog, that you have probably seen on commercials, be alone with his tortoises.


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## Tom

James de Grasse said:


> This story is very saddening. I have two dogs (beagle and a small something) and have left them alone with my 12 year old tortoise for the past 4 years. After reading this story I am a bit worried but they have all seemed like friends throughout the years. The worst I ever see the dogs do is take his watermelon. Any thoughts?



Here are my thoughts:

Every day that those dogs have unsupervised access to that tortoise, you are willfully and knowingly risking that tortoises life. Why? Why take that chance? It is physically possible that they won't ever hurt the tortoise, but thousands upon thousands of turtles and tortoises get chewed up and mauled by calm, friendly, well-trained, loving family pets. Very few people who stand there with a bloody chewed tortoise in their hands ever thought that their dog would do such a thing. Most thought it would never happen. They all say the same things. "They were friends..." "The dog never even looked at the tortoise..." "Fluffy has never wanted anything to do with the tortoise...".

The dogs and tortoise should each have their own separate areas with no access to each others area.


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## MNM

That story is soooo sad...  It literally almost made me cry! So sorry to hear that! ...


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## James de Grasse

Tom said:


> Here are my thoughts:
> 
> Every day that those dogs have unsupervised access to that tortoise, you are willfully and knowingly risking that tortoises life. Why? Why take that chance? It is physically possible that they won't ever hurt the tortoise, but thousands upon thousands of turtles and tortoises get chewed up and mauled by calm, friendly, well-trained, loving family pets. Very few people who stand there with a bloody chewed tortoise in their hands ever thought that their dog would do such a thing. Most thought it would never happen. They all say the same things. "They were friends..." "The dog never even looked at the tortoise..." "Fluffy has never wanted anything to do with the tortoise...".
> 
> The dogs and tortoise should each have their own separate areas with no access to each others area.



Thank you for your input. I can't take my backyard away form my tortoise because it is HIS. He roams like a wild one and taking that from him would be a disservice.


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## Tom

James de Grasse said:


> Thank you for your input. I can't take my backyard away form my tortoise because it is HIS. He roams like a wild one and taking that from him would be a disservice.



Ok. No problem. Then keep the dogs out of HIS yard. Simple.


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## Team Gomberg

James de Grasse said:


> Thank you for your input. I can't take my backyard away form my tortoise because it is HIS. He roams like a wild one and taking that from him would be a disservice.



My tortoise also owns the backyard  so, I keep the dog in the house and supervise all potty breaks.


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## Sheldon.B

Just read about your story, I am so sorry for your loss, it's heart felt, and I know that you had plans for your torts growing up with your nephews. Thinking of you. MarieJ


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## NotReptarded

I'm so sorry for what happen that must have been a horrible experience. I hope they recover from the incident.


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## ILoveTorts&Gerbils

That's horrible. I'm so sorry. 

I love my BT to bits, despite the fact that he killed both of my rabbits a few years ago. I was heart-broken, but I came to realise that dogs can't always control their hunting instincts. 

I hope you can forgive the dog that did this, although your post gives the impression that you understand that he most likely didn't realise that he did anything wrong!


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## ILoveTorts&Gerbils

Just realised that this was posted years ago... now I feel a fool!


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## Mammyjuls

Or so sorry to hear that .
We have a very well train lab but I would never leave her alone with my tortise just like I would never leave her alone with my children ad they only young .
When I take my tortise out and let him Rome in the sitting room I lock the dog in the kitchen always best to be on the safe side 

That was a torrible story and very sad


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## Norma

My tortoise is adopted from a home with a dog which chewed through her shell she was saved by the vet and currently has fibre glass resin filling the holes, she was traumatised for a while refusing to eat so had a drip put in but since I took her she is now a happy healthy tortoise


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## Gillian M

Norma said:


> My tortoise is adopted from a home with a dog which chewed through her shell she was saved by the vet and currently has fibre glass resin filling the holes, she was traumatised for a while refusing to eat so had a drip put in but since I took her she is now a happy healthy tortoise


Very sorry to hear such a sad story, but at least your tort is now better. Dogs (as well as cats) can be very 'nasty' to a helpless little tort. What species is your tort? Would like to see a pic of it.

And a very warm welcome to the forum.


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## Tidgy's Dad

ILoveTorts&Gerbils said:


> Just realised that this was posted years ago... now I feel a fool!


Don't.
This thread is still active and relevant, not locked so people can add to it.
Your post adds to the idea that lovely dogs can be dangerous, so is helpful.


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## Lyn W

Norma said:


> My tortoise is adopted from a home with a dog which chewed through her shell she was saved by the vet and currently has fibre glass resin filling the holes, she was traumatised for a while refusing to eat so had a drip put in but since I took her she is now a happy healthy tortoise


That's a great success story and yet another lesson to us all.
Thanks for sharing and welcome.


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## Big Charlie

Charlie is over 75 pounds. He is our only pet but there are many feral and neighborhood cats and kittens in our yard. When we had a dog, the cats stayed away but now that we are one of the few yards without a dog, our yard attracts cats. None of them have ever come near Charlie but he likes to go near them. Maybe he is trying to tell them whose yard it is but they are stupid and don't get the message. Do I have anything to worry about? I haven't been able to figure out how to keep those cats out of our yard without breaking a few laws.


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