# Hibernating



## mproko (Aug 8, 2016)

What does everything think about hibernating the species that naturally would? Assuming you did it indoors or had no temp concerns outdoors...is it really necessary? Does it make one a bad Russian tortoise keeper to not want to hibernate? Also is there a difference in captive bred vs wild caught? I've read everything all over the place on this.


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## Tidgy's Dad (Aug 8, 2016)

I have a Greek tortoise, the remarkable Tidgy, who would normally hibernate. 
When i got her, she was only a few months old and now she is six. 
I never hibernated her to begin with as i was told it's a risk with young tortoises, but now she's older i don't because I would worry (unnecessarily I'm sure) and i have heard it's ok to overwinter them.
Tidgy slows down a bit in November, tries to find corners to sleep in and her appetite wains. 
So I increase her temps and offer tasty titbits and after a fortnight or so she returns to normal. 
I should point out the other Greeks I help care for in the area all hibernate over winter except for one which is also overwintered, and is fine.


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## Gillian M (Aug 9, 2016)

mproko said:


> What does everything think about hibernating the species that naturally would? Assuming you did it indoors or had no temp concerns outdoors...is it really necessary? Does it make one a bad Russian tortoise keeper to not want to hibernate? Also is there a difference in captive bred vs wild caught? I've read everything all over the place on this.



A very warm welcome to the forum!

Oli (my beloved Greek tort) only hibernated the first Winter after I got him. I've a feeling it's the relatively warm temperature we have inside the flat.


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## mproko (Aug 9, 2016)

Thanks the indoor temp of my tortoise room at lowest at night stays 70 and above year round. (Only room in the house I keep that warm). The water tanks I have for sliders in there also seem to keep the humidity from dropping too much which is also good.


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## Tom (Aug 9, 2016)

Do a forum search for this topic. It has been argued at length many times.

Do you _have_ to hibernate? No. No you don't, but some people think you _should. _There are many who keep them up all winter and claim that it does no harm. There are many who hibernate them and assert that its "better" for them.

Personally, I think that if a species would hibernate in the wild, then we should also safely hibernate them in our captive environments. However, I don't have a problem with it if someone decides to keep their tortoise up all winter if they want to. I don't think keeping them up does any sort of catastrophic damage or anything like that.


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## Linhdan Nguyen (Aug 9, 2016)

Ive been thinking about hibernating my russians. Maybe not until next year though since Im still very new to tortoises and Max isnt putting on as much weight as i would like


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## Tidgy's Dad (Aug 9, 2016)

Yes, that is a point worth making.
Many people advocate not hibernating the tortoise the first year you have it and never to hibernate if the tortoise has been sick or is underweight.


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## Linhdan Nguyen (Aug 9, 2016)

Yup! Khaleesi would have been fine hibernating this year though. But theres alot to learn and prepare for indoor hibernation (im looking at then fridge option). 
My tortoises are most likely wild caught though and even when i extended their lighting hours (when i received them in feburary) and bump up the temp, they were still lethargic in the winter and don't do much of anything.


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## Big Charlie (Aug 9, 2016)

I wonder if the torts that hibernate every year will live longer.


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## Gillian M (Aug 10, 2016)

Big Charlie said:


> I wonder if the torts that hibernate every year will live longer.


An interesting question.


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## Linhdan Nguyen (Aug 10, 2016)

Ive seen debate that they do, and that it doesnt matter either way. 
I just think its part of their natural way to hibernate when it gets cold.


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## Chanchara (Aug 10, 2016)

Gillian Moore said:


> An interesting question.



I think that's so obvious ...

Firstly, not hibernating tortoises grow much faster (weight and size).
Secondly, they quicker become sexually mature.

We forcibly shorten the life expectancy tortoises, but also increase the duration of their activity, not allowing them to hibernate.

PS: By the way, it is easy to verify experimentally.
However, the need 50-100 years ....

I am ready for such work, but do not sure that have time to finish....


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## Gillian M (Aug 10, 2016)

Chanchara said:


> I think that's so obvious ...
> 
> Firstly, not hibernating tortoises grow much faster (weight and size).
> Secondly, they quicker become sexually mature.
> ...


Thank the info.


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## Tom (Aug 10, 2016)

Chanchara said:


> We forcibly shorten the life expectancy tortoises, but also increase the duration of their activity, not allowing them to hibernate.
> 
> PS: By the way, it is easy to verify experimentally.
> However, the need 50-100 years ....
> ...



I was going to ask you how you could possibly know this, but then I finished reading your post…

You are stating these things as fact. I don't think these things are facts. I think you are speculating and making educated guesses. No human alive today knows what the lifespan of our tortoises is in captivity with or without hibernation, or in the wild. Some documented cases demonstrate they can live well over 100 years.

How can anyone know if not hibernating them will shorten their lifespan since we don't know what their lifespan is either in the wild or in captivity under any care regime?

Mind you, I am an advocate FOR hibernation, even in babies, but I have not seen any harm done in tortoises that are not hibernated, so I feel the need to speak up when people assert that bad things will happen if tortoises are not hibernated.


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## Chanchara (Aug 11, 2016)

Tom said:


> I was going to ask you how you could possibly know this, but then I finished reading your post…
> 
> You are stating these things as fact. I don't think these things are facts. I think you are speculating and making educated guesses. No human alive today knows what the lifespan of our tortoises is in captivity with or without hibernation, or in the wild. Some documented cases demonstrate they can live well over 100 years.
> 
> ...



I'll try to answer.
There are certain axioms: during the winter all the vital processes in the body of the tort slow down, almost stopping.
Therefore, if a tort with hibernation - active live per year is about 8 months, without wintering - 12 months.
Those. the body wears out (aging) a half times faster.
Another aspect that violation that inherent nature (in this case wintering) inevitably leads to problems in the body. And according to decrease in lifetime.
It turns out the life of torts in captivity decreases about twice .But the active lifetime (in front of the face of the owner) increases...

What to choose?


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## Jodie (Aug 11, 2016)

Interesting theory.
I think the biggest problem with not hibernating is that it is difficult often to keep them awake. If you let them kind of slow down without the proper temps, they aren't eating, but the metabolism is still burning normal energy. This is obviously not good. If you have The time and energy for lots of soaks to keep them awake, and plenty of heat and light, I have seen nothing that proves it is harmful. They hibernate to survive conditions in the wild that are unsurvivable, so in an artificial summer environment, maybe there is no need. I hibernate mine.


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## Tom (Aug 11, 2016)

Chanchara said:


> I'll try to answer.
> There are certain axioms: during the winter all the vital processes in the body of the tort slow down, almost stopping.
> Therefore, if a tort with hibernation - active live per year is about 8 months, without wintering - 12 months.
> Those. the body wears out (aging) a half times faster.
> ...



Your theories are certainly plausible and make sense. However, with a lack of data on captive or wild lifespans, your ideas will remain unproven theories. You might be right, or you might be wrong. You and I will not find our in out lifetimes. Our children's children's children's children might start to get some idea if we are thorough about recording hatch dates and care info with our tortoises today.


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## Tidgy's Dad (Aug 11, 2016)

Tom said:


> Your theories are certainly plausible and make sense. However, with a lack of data on captive or wild lifespans, your ideas will remain unproven theories. You might be right, or you might be wrong. You and I will not find our in out lifetimes. Our children's children's children's children might start to get some idea if we are thorough about recording hatch dates and care info with our tortoises today.


I don't have children. 
They will never know.


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## mark1 (Aug 11, 2016)

i believe the longer lifespan associated with hibernation has been demonstrated in (short lived) hamsters ...... while their hibernation is slightly different than reptiles , the lowering body temp , organ shutdown/slowdown are similar ........ i've read where turtles deprived of hibernation for long periods of time were thought to become immunocompromised , and i read it is also thought to damage the thyroid ....... having done both , and having let my turtles hibernate for the last 15-20 years , i'd actually be concerned not to hibernate them ....... as Jodie mentioned , there also seems to be a mental aspect to it .......


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## Chanchara (Aug 11, 2016)

Tom said:


> ...Our children's children's children's children might start ...


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## katya mercieca (Sep 9, 2017)

so is it ok to just leave them hibernate inside ? would that entail having no artificial heating right? and no uv light either? at what temperature would a greek tortoise hibernate ?


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## Grandpa Turtle 144 (Sep 9, 2017)

You should not hibernate any tort if you haven't had it a year ! You need to see the torts health and give it a good diet . And there is not rule that says you have to hibernate any tort . In the wild temps are bad , but in captivity they are controlled ! In the wild food is slim , but in captivity it's controlled ! Have a great day !


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## Tidgy's Dad (Sep 11, 2017)

I agree, it isn't a good idea to hibernate a tortoise in its first year with you.


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## Tom (Sep 11, 2017)

katya mercieca said:


> so is it ok to just leave them hibernate inside ? would that entail having no artificial heating right? and no uv light either? at what temperature would a greek tortoise hibernate ?



Not unless your house is consistently cold, like a refrigerator all winter long.

CDTs hibernate best at around 48-50. Russians at 38-40. I'm certain Greeks are somewhere in-between those two.

@GBtortoises 
@HermanniChris 

Can you guys shed some light for this member on optimal hibernation temps for Greeks, if someone wants to hibernate their tortoise.


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## HermanniChris (Sep 11, 2017)

Firstly, you absolutely need to know what type of Greek tortoise you have. This is because they do not all have the same tolerances or requirements. Only some such as T. g. ibera for example can handle severe cold or some moisture during brumation. Other subspecies like T. g. nabeulensis absolutely cannot. If you're unsure which type you have, please post a pic here and I'll ID it for you.


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