# Leopard bleeding during mating.



## Jodie (May 16, 2016)

I kind of think I know the answer, but want to know for sure. I have 2 females, 15 inches and 11 inches, and 1 male, about 10 inches. They are in an 800 square foot ish horse shoe shaped enclosure. It is heavily planted. They have an 8 foot by 4 foot insulated, heated box. My large female rarely leaves the box except when I make her, or to nest. 
Mort, my male, is young. This is his 1st year with females. Let's say he is eager. 
When I checked on them this afternoon, there was blood in the box. Scarlett, my large female had blood smeared on her. She was out of the box. No wounds, so I checked Mort. He also has blood smeared on him, and no visible wounds. I have divide the box to separate him from them. Is it safe to assume he has worn himself out, so to speak, or is it her?
Do I need to do anything else for them, anything I should be looking for? How long do they need to be separated? Am I not thinking of something else?


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## JoesMum (May 17, 2016)

I'll be honest and say that your male needs to be kept separately on a permanent basis probably. If you're trying to breed then introduce him to mate and then pull him out again. 

Blood is not a good sign. Fighting is serious business. 

Your female that won't come put is displaying all the signs of a bullied tort and that's not good for her health. 

This then leaves you a problem of a pair. Even two females will have a pecking order - dominant and subordinate - bully and victim. 

You may get away with the girls living together in such a large enclosure, but you may not and further separation may be needed.


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## Jodie (May 17, 2016)

She was alone last year and stayed in the box. That is her. Being out of the box is actually the sign for her that something is up.


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## Jodie (May 17, 2016)

I don't think it was fighting. There are no wounds. I am reasonably sure the blood is Morts.


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## JoesMum (May 17, 2016)

No matter. If the blood has appeared, you have fighting torts and they need to be split. Your male is better off on his own as he is undoubtedly the root of the problem, but you will not be able to rule out having to split the girls as well.


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## Team Gomberg (May 17, 2016)

Jodie, hopefully the breeders have insight for you.
@Tom @Yvonne G @tortadise @Greg T @Will 
@N2TORTS you guys ever have blood with your mating torts?


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## Tom (May 17, 2016)

Jodie said:


> I kind of think I know the answer, but want to know for sure. I have 2 females, 15 inches and 11 inches, and 1 male, about 10 inches. They are in an 800 square foot ish horse shoe shaped enclosure. It is heavily planted. They have an 8 foot by 4 foot insulated, heated box. My large female rarely leaves the box except when I make her, or to nest.
> Mort, my male, is young. This is his 1st year with females. Let's say he is eager.
> When I checked on them this afternoon, there was blood in the box. Scarlett, my large female had blood smeared on her. She was out of the box. No wounds, so I checked Mort. He also has blood smeared on him, and no visible wounds. I have divide the box to separate him from them. Is it safe to assume he has worn himself out, so to speak, or is it her?
> Do I need to do anything else for them, anything I should be looking for? How long do they need to be separated? Am I not thinking of something else?



I had this happen with a male sulcata. He injured his penis. I separated him and have not had him with females since then. He was also very eager.

He was in a 7000 square foot pen with lots of room to roam and lots of visual barriers. There was no fighting involved.

All you can do is separate him for a few months and give him time to heal. Check the females for any sharp shell edges around the area concerned. Sometimes a little bit of shell dremmeling is needed. Check with a vet or experienced hobbyist for how much to dremmel, if it is even needed.


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## Jodie (May 17, 2016)

Thank you Tom. I so appreciate your experience. I had not thought about it being the shell. Nothing is ever easy, or just works with these guys.


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## tortadise (May 17, 2016)

Nope I've never had this happen before.


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## TortoiseWarrior (May 17, 2016)

I learned something here.


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## N2TORTS (May 17, 2016)

Penis prolapse is common in young over aggressive males, and you cold have missed it and got " cleaned up on it's own" and able to retract back in. This can cause slight torn blood vessels which can cause the sight of blood smears. Also consider an egg bound female who, with further penetration will also cause sight of blood issues and can be a serious issue. I recently had a young male with a prolapse "kept clean" but for 3 days was time to visit Dr. Greek. Results were a small incision and actually pushing back penis in with finger. Small suture to close things up and isolate for a week or so .....took the stich out couple weeks ago and all things groovy. All of these to consider since you saw no visible exterior wounds.


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## Jodie (May 17, 2016)

N2TORTS said:


> Penis prolapse is common in young over aggressive males, and you cold have missed it and got " cleaned up on it's own" and able to retract back in. This can cause slight torn blood vessels which can cause the sight of blood smears. Also consider an egg bound female who, with further penetration will also cause sight of blood issues and can be a serious issue. I recently had a young male with a prolapse "kept clean" but for 3 days was time to visit Dr. Greek. Results were a small incision and actually pushing back penis in with finger. Small suture to close things up and isolate for a week or so .....took the stich out couple weeks ago and all things groovy. All of these to consider since you saw no visible exterior wounds.


Thank you. She laid 7 clutches, August through February, so I wouldn't think so. Will get xray stat though to be sure.
If it was a prolapse, and is back in on it's own, is there anything else I need to do for him? He is in isolation for the next few months.


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## N2TORTS (May 17, 2016)

As long as cloaca area looks clean , no blood or pus, your probable ok with him - You could separate but it sounds like he has a couple choices, and this is the start of the season ....so he will be on the prowl. <grin>
I will show a thread of Egg bound female soon , it's good to have her checked out with an X-Ray because
retained eggs may injure/cut the internal reproductive cavity, or broken free floating egg/s may cause "peritonitis". With this mind....retained eggs can cause damage to the reproductive track and may ruin future breeding .
Retain eggs can cause the sight of blood with no external/visible cuts just as well......


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## Jodie (May 17, 2016)

Very good to know. This female was bound when I rescued her. She had broken and uncalcified eggs. Had to have surgery, and her uterus repaired. Tom's explanation made a lot of sense because she has some of the fiberglass patch remaining. Didn't expect her to lay eggs for years, but have 2 dozen hatchlings that say she is good. Not taking chances with egg bound. Especially since xray is so easy. She is not showing any signs though. 
I will keep him isolated, assuming it is his injury. He can prowl away.
As long as my 2 females get along things will be ok.
Thanks for the help everyone.


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## Jodie (May 20, 2016)

Got the xray and no eggs. Yeah! Poor Mort though.


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