# Substrate Allergy Question



## tofuqueen (Jul 14, 2009)

So just when I thought things were going well with Pablo's enclosure set up... we ran into a bit of a road block.  Right now he has a mix of roughly 70% top soil, 30% play sand with a 2-3 inch layer of coconut bark (T-Rex brand coconut bark... not the brick type) on top. My husband has severe asthma and bad allergies (BIG part of the reason we got a tort since he can't be around fur or feathers) and he says he's having issues breathing in the room where Pablo's enclosure is. The first few days we had Pablo he was in some type of bark mixture... but since we weren't sure what it was specifically and since we upgraded his enclosure to a much bigger size, we had to go buy all new substrate materials. It seemed like the tree bark stuff was causing my husband's breathing issues, but it isn't much better with the coconut bark. Has anyone heard of someone being allergic to coconut bark? He says that he read that it can be a dusty substrate. I didn't think that would be an issue since we keep it damp (Pablo is a Russian Tort.) Any advice or suggestions on what we should try? Is the bed-a-beast stuff less dusty than the bark? Any other products that might work? We're trying to avoid tree barks since my husband is allergic to a lot of different types of trees. Is just sand and topsoil okay? It seems like the bark makes it easier for Pablo to burrow, so I'm not sure how just sand/soil would be.


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## tortoisenerd (Jul 14, 2009)

I don't think the bark would be different than the brick fibers as it's the same material. What a bummer! I have heard of people being allergic to all sorts of strange products. This isn't a common material for people to be exposed to anyways.

Yes just the top soil and sandis just fine! Some people think it smells to strong for a house or have other reasons not to use it. Nothing wrong with it, just keep it moist the same as any similar substrate. Give it a try.

Why is there a need for the bark at all? For many torts the bark is hard to walk on and dig in due to the large and uneven size. I have not heard of a tort having trouble with the soil/sand. Describe this more please. What behavior makes you think he's having trouble? I would make the substrate as deep as possible to make digging easier. If you take a photo we can give an opinion on the soil:sand ratio for the best digging potential.

Remember you have to use what both the tort and the owners likes. 

My other suggestions wouldn't be moist substrate (which is usually recommended to prevent pyramiding and other reasons), and would likely be even dustier.


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## tofuqueen (Jul 14, 2009)

Thanks Kate! I feel a lot better hearing that you've never heard of a tort having trouble with just the soil/sand mix. I guess I just thought the coconut stuff was good because he seems to be able to move it around easily with his front legs. I think I'm going to try taking the coconut bark out tomorrow and adding some more soil and sand to make up the difference in depth so he can still burrow. I'll still keep the mixture moist. It should feel damp, but not "soaking wet" or drippy, right?? I'm so scared of this pyramiding issue... I need to read some more on that! If I dampen the soil/sand mix so it's not bone dry, it should be good for the tort's respitory system and also help prevent pyramiding too right? So much info! LOL I hope I'm getting this right! My next big mission is finding some plants to grow for his enclosure! I'll post some updated pictures after remodeling. Thank you!!


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## tortoisenerd (Jul 14, 2009)

You are correct about the moisture (it should not drop if you squeeze it). I would give it a try and see what you all think. The moist substrate simulates the natural environment more, substrate humidity helps prevent pyramiding, but I'm not sure I agree with the respiratory thing. Too dry is bad, but too moist is also bad and could cause respiratory infection or other issues to be more prevalent. It's a balance as most things are in life. Although the bark could be moved easier, the dirt is better for actual burrowing as well as a secure footing. Sometimes with very thick bark and a very small tort, it has been known to have the leg muscles even develop improperly. I don't think that's too common, but a possibility. I don't think your tort is that tiny either. I actually never would recommend bark as there are many other alternatives. Also, it's tough to find a safe bark as many are made of toxic pine, cedar, fir or unknown wood mixes (packages don't always say)....even those marketed for torts. The coconut bark you describe is a different though, and definitely safe, but still large pieces. Kinda got off subject there, sorry. 

Sounds like you're on a great path. Lots of work I know...I'm still working on my tort's enclosure 8 months later! Always a work in progress.


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## Isa (Jul 15, 2009)

If one day you want to try a dry substrate (with a humid hide of course ), I heard Aspen substrate was not that dusty.


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## Maggie Cummings (Jul 15, 2009)

A lot of people use Aspen but you can't get that wet. I use orchid bark or cypress bedding. You should be keeping the substrate moist so it is not dusty at all. I like the cypress mulch the best and it smell really good and it's not dusty...


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## Crazy1 (Jul 15, 2009)

You can also use just dirt. No sand necessary. Dig up the yard and put it in his enclosure would work fine. Work at trying different things that your Hubby seems to tolerate well. I am sure you will find the right combination.


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## tortoisenerd (Jul 15, 2009)

I find aspen dusty but not the point that it would stop us from using (that is what my tort has). I just make sure to keep him out of the area when I change it out and until it settles. I found the aspen much much more dusty than any moist substrate. I agree with trying all the moist substrates first before switching to a dry one...we had several reasons to switch Trevor.


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## spring pace (Jul 16, 2009)

since galileo got bigger and is outside and i do still use a substrate in his enclosures, i thought id save a little money by buying a good clean top soil substrate, i noticed an odor too and didnt like it and noticed that gali didnt either, then i found coir for outside bedding, it has bigger chunks and in much bigger pkgs that was less expensive because it wasnt as fine a grade as the coir bricks. im much happier w/ the results and so is galileo. spring & galileo big smiles


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