# Redcata?



## nicoleann2214 (Jun 30, 2020)

Have you guys ever heard of a redcata? I didn’t know it was a thing til now it’s a sulcata and red foot breed mixed. Really different.. ?


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## Srmcclure (Jun 30, 2020)

nicoleann2214 said:


> Have you guys ever heard of a redcata? I didn’t know it was a thing til now it’s a sulcata and red foot breed mixed. Really different.. ?


Thats so sad!!!! How do you know what its body needs at that point??? Do I feed grass? Fruit? Chicken? ?

Visually I'm sure its really pretty, but no!


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## nicoleann2214 (Jun 30, 2020)

Srmcclure said:


> Thats so sad!!!! How do you know what its body needs at that point??? Do I feed grass? Fruit? Chicken? ?
> 
> Visually I'm sure its really pretty, but no!


Ik, it’s crazy!


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## Srmcclure (Jun 30, 2020)

nicoleann2214 said:


> Ik, it’s crazy!



Do you have an example pic? I tried to Google it and i saw a leopardfoot haha. It was definitely interesting...


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## nicoleann2214 (Jun 30, 2020)

Srmcclure said:


> Do you have an example pic? I tried to Google it and i saw a leopardfoot haha. It was definitely interesting...


I


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## Srmcclure (Jun 30, 2020)

So weird....


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## nicoleann2214 (Jun 30, 2020)

Srmcclure said:


> So weird....


I know and the one has two heads. It’s on an Instagram page.


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## Srmcclure (Jun 30, 2020)

nicoleann2214 said:


> I know and the one has two heads. It’s on an Instagram page.


I dont think those live long.... 
Maybe once in a while, but i heard animals like that tend to have all kinds of weird things going on inside.


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## KarenSoCal (Jun 30, 2020)

It's heartbreaking to see mixes like this. The diet problem is bad enough, but soon you won't be able to find a full blooded, pure leopard or sulcata.

Man fools with a lot of stuff that he really needs to leave alone. ??


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## nicoleann2214 (Jul 1, 2020)

Srmcclure said:


> I dont think those live long....
> Maybe once in a while, but i heard animals like that tend to have all kinds of weird things going on inside.


I’d believe it!


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## turtlesteve (Jul 1, 2020)

I normally don’t sign on to Facebook but I stumbled across the hybrid tortoise group that this picture was posted on. Like gawking at a train wreck I had to go look at all the pictures. 

These are probably the only hybrids that I find visually attractive, but I share the ethical concerns. There might be an ethical path to create hybrid “domesticated” tortoises but humanity can’t be trusted to follow it. Even if a breeder making hybrids is careful (e.g. avoids spreading diseases or polluting gene pools), the existence of these hybrids enables others who are not so ethical.


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## SPILL (Jul 1, 2020)

KarenSoCal said:


> It's heartbreaking to see mixes like this. The diet problem is bad enough, but soon you won't be able to find a full blooded, pure leopard or sulcata.
> 
> Man fools with a lot of stuff that he really needs to leave alone. ??


I'd hate to see tortoises go the way of the bearded dragon or various geckos where it seems like with all the fancy morphs you just don't see many normals.


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## qiangzhu (Jul 1, 2020)

nicoleann2214 said:


> Have you guys ever heard of a redcata? I didn’t know it was a thing til now it’s a sulcata and red foot breed mixed. Really different.. ?


I only heard about mix breed of leopard and sulcata


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## zovick (Jul 1, 2020)

And does anyone know if these hybrid tortoises are sterile like mules (a cross between a horse and a donkey)? Personally, I hope they are.


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## qiangzhu (Jul 1, 2020)

zovick said:


> And does anyone know if these hybrid tortoises are sterile like mules (a cross between a horse and a donkey)? Personally, I hope they are.


I think they should be like mule or liger or tigon. They will not be that unhealthy or have short life but they may not be able to breed next generation.

I do see pictures of very large (at least 10 inches) sulcata-leopard hybrid tortoises before


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## Srmcclure (Jul 1, 2020)

See! Thats nature saying you f'd up! No more!


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## EllyMae (Jul 1, 2020)

zovick said:


> And does anyone know if these hybrid tortoises are sterile like mules (a cross between a horse and a donkey)? Personally, I hope they are.



That would depend on the number of chromosomes. To make sexually viable offspring, it comes down to the number of chromosomes. Horses have 64. Donkeys have 62. Mules and Hinnys have 63.
Animals that have an odd number of chromosomes are usually sterile because their chromosomes can’t be divided evenly during meiosis.
Does anyone know the number of chromosomes in Sulcatas or Redfoots?


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## Lokkje (Jul 1, 2020)

EllyMae said:


> That would depend on the number of chromosomes. To make sexually viable offspring, it comes down to the number of chromosomes. Horses have 64. Donkeys have 62. Mules and Hinnys have 63.
> Animals that have an odd number of chromosomes are usually sterile because their chromosomes can’t be divided evenly during meiosis.
> Does anyone know the number of chromosomes in Sulcatas or Redfoots?


I was researching the number of chromosomes in various tortoises and not finding the answer I was looking for when I found this rather fascinating article and I thought I’d post it even though it isn’t quite on topic. https://dnascience.plos.org/2018/12...nt-lonesome-george-leaves-clues-to-longevity/


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## Lokkje (Jul 1, 2020)

Giant tortoise genomes provide insights into longevity and age-related disease - Nature Ecology & Evolution


The genomes of two long-lived giant tortoises, including Lonesome George, reveal candidate genes and pathways associated with their development, gigantism and longevity.




www.nature.com


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## Lokkje (Jul 1, 2020)

Best I’ve found so far is that all tortoises have 52 pair of chromosomes. I could be wrong.


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## Lokkje (Jul 1, 2020)

Bad me 52 chromosomes 26 pair. Here’s a turtle tortoise article with turtle with 50. And now I’m done looking. 








Karyotypic characterization of Trachemys dorbigni (Testudines: Emydidae) and Chelonoidis (Geochelone) donosobarrosi (Testudines: Testudinidae), two species of Cryptodiran turtles from Argentina - PubMed


We describe for the first time the karyotypes of two species of Cryptodiran turtles from Argentina, namely, Trachemys dorbigni (Emydidae) and Chelonoidis (Geochelone) donosobarrosi (Testudinidae). The karyotype of T. dorbigni (2n = 50) consists of 13 pairs of macrochromosomes and 12 pairs of...




pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov


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## Gijoux (Jul 5, 2020)

Yes! Just because we can, should we really do it? Te


KarenSoCal said:


> It's heartbreaking to see mixes like this. The diet problem is bad enough, but soon you won't be able to find a full blooded, pure leopard or sulcata.
> 
> Man fools with a lot of stuff that he really needs to leave alone. ??


rri idea.


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## BrookeB (Jul 7, 2020)

The only hybrid I actually like is the sulcata leopard hybrid. If given the chance I would personally own one. But with a species mix like you mentioned above it just seems like they are so vastly different I don’t see how they could ever get proper care when mixed. Size, temp, humidity, diet, growth rate, everything is so different in those species so where would you even start to find the right care?


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## iAmCentrochelys sulcata (Jul 7, 2020)

BrookeB said:


> The only hybrid I actually like is the sulcata leopard hybrid. If given the chance I would personally own one. But with a species mix like you mentioned above it just seems like they are so vastly different I don’t see how they could ever get proper care when mixed. Size, temp, humidity, diet, growth rate, everything is so different in those species so where would you even start to find the right care?


Nonsense. No Tortoises should be Mixed.


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## Nickolas (Jul 7, 2020)

I believe that God created each animal to have a purpose in the world, a niche. What does a hybrid do other than look "cool"? It is an abomination. That is just my opinion.?


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## BrookeB (Jul 8, 2020)

iAmCentrochelys sulcata said:


> Nonsense. No Tortoises should be Mixed.


You have your opinion, I have mine. I doubt arguing will change either opinion.


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## Relic (Jul 8, 2020)

My guess is economics - not biology - will drive this hybridization train in tortoises, just like it has in snakes, lizards, dogs, etc. As long as someone with deep pockets and a strong desire to own the rare and unusual is around, this mix-breeding will continue. Just look at the current prices of albino redfoots. As they become more common, the prices will erode; just look at the current prices of albino redear sliders. As a young boy, RES sold for 50 cents at the local pet store, and I had several while growing up. And they all eventually died from trying to survive in fetid water, being fed "dried flies," and being housed in the ubiquitous plastic turtle bowl with fake palm tree. Husbandry information was non-existent for 6 year olds.

I suppose it may be many years and several generations before the long-term health and fertility, of this particular hybrid is discovered. Who knows, perhaps the newly combined genetic code will result in a stronger animal? I kinda like the red on the sulcatta-type front leg scales. And for the record, I'm not a leg man...


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## iAmCentrochelys sulcata (Jul 8, 2020)

Relic said:


> My guess is economics - not biology - will drive this hybridization train in tortoises, just like it has in snakes, lizards, dogs, etc. As long as someone with deep pockets and a strong desire to own the rare and unusual is around, this mix-breeding will continue. Just look at the current prices of albino redfoots. As they become more common, the prices will erode; just look at the current prices of albino redear sliders. As a young boy, RES sold for 50 cents at the local pet store, and I had several while growing up. And they all eventually died from trying to survive in fetid water, being fed "dried flies," and being housed in the ubiquitous plastic turtle bowl with fake palm tree. Husbandry information was non-existent for 6 year olds.
> 
> I suppose it may be many years and several generations before the long-term health and fertility, of this particular hybrid is discovered. Who knows, perhaps the newly combined genetic code will result in a stronger animal? I kinda like the red on the sulcatta-type front leg scales. And for the record, I'm not a leg man...


At some point it will be inevitable in my opinion. It does have an aesthetic look, but there’s side effects right? For example Albinos have bad eyesight. I really doubt it will result in a better animal most of the time it doesn’t.


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## Billna the 2 (Jul 16, 2020)

I have heard some stories of Leopard tortoise and Sulcata crossing each other in the wild and try mating, not sure if it’s true or not.


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