# My tortoise won't eat, and is foaming at the mouth!



## Rachel Prior (Aug 14, 2017)

So my one and a half year old tortoise stopped eating a couple days ago, and I called the place I got him and they said to increase the temperature. Granted it probably was only like 80 in the basking end in the first place (bad move by me). So I bought a heat bulb and a thermometer and it got up to 90. Then the next day he was foaming at the mouth. I thought he was too hot so I soaked him in cool water and the foaming stopped but he still wouldn't eat. He had dried spit on his mouth when I woke up today, so I called the place I got him again and they said it was probably respiratory infection. He doesn't seem to have any problem breathing but I don't know what to do! Help!


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## ZEROPILOT (Aug 14, 2017)

Foaming at the mouth is almost always an overheating issue.
Cool him down right away.


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## ZEROPILOT (Aug 14, 2017)

What type of tortoise? How are you housing and heating/lighting it?
What is the temp and humidity and please post photos of those items to help us to help you.


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## Yvonne G (Aug 14, 2017)

It's not a respiratory infection. The two things in my experience that cause foaming are overheating and poison.


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## Rachel Prior (Aug 14, 2017)

ZEROPILOT said:


> What type of tortoise? How are you housing and heating/lighting it?
> What is the temp and humidity and please post photos of those items to help us to help you.


His tub is probably 30 in by 18in. It is being heated by a 100 watt heating bulb. The temp when he was foaming yesterday was around 90 but I don't know what it is now. Probably less, and that's my fault. I should have made sure his enclosure was heated properly. The humidity is around 30 percent. I will post pictures as soon as I figure out how to. He is a baby leopard tortoise.


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## Tidgy's Dad (Aug 14, 2017)

Hello and welcome to Tortoise Forum. 
Please post a picture of the enclosure so we can identify any problems. 
Please read http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/beginner-mistakes.45180/
and http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/how-to-raise-a-healthy-sulcata-or-leopard-version-2-0.79895/
and take any steps necessary to fix your heating, lighting, humidity, substrate, feeding and space problems.


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## Rachel Prior (Aug 14, 2017)

How do I post pictures?


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## Rachel Prior (Aug 14, 2017)

The foam is now more of a mucus. It doesn't seem to be coming from his nose. He won't eat, he won't really move. He just kind of sits there and smacks his lips. Is he trying to dislodge the mucus or something?


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## Tidgy's Dad (Aug 14, 2017)

To post a picture if you are on a PC, click on the UPLOAD A FILE icon next to the green POST REPLY one at the bottom of the screen. 
This should allow you access to the photos stored on your computer. 
Give him a nice twenty minute soak in warm water just above the level where his top shell joins the bottom bit. Make sure he can hold his head up above the water, you might have to help him if he's weak, but let him drink and clear his mouth out.


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## Rachel Prior (Aug 14, 2017)

Okay thank you I will try that. I think his enclosure is too dry and so I will attempt to raise the humidity as well.


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## Rachel Prior (Aug 14, 2017)




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## Rachel Prior (Aug 14, 2017)

The top is his current setup and the bottom is what the foam/mucus looks like.


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## Eduardo Hernandez (Aug 14, 2017)

What kind of substrate are you using?


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## TammyJ (Aug 14, 2017)

The conditions he is in are very wrong. He is too hot and dry.

Please take him to a good reptile vet and get him treated, and be sure to read the care sheets you have been advised to. Hope things improve after that! All the best.


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## Tidgy's Dad (Aug 14, 2017)

This species needs hot, humid conditions. Your enclosure is far too dry and too small. 
You need a substrate that is deep and can hold water, fine grade orchid bark, coco coir or cypress mulch.
Place a flat piece of slate or sandstone to put the food on which will keep the dirt off it and help keep his beak trimmed.
Use a bigger water dish that he can climb in and soak, a cheap, shallow terracotta plant saucer sunk into the substrate works best for this. 
It is imperative conditions are changed and you follow the care sheets I have linked or he will die.


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## threeboxerlover (Aug 14, 2017)

I do not know much about Leopards but I think the enclosure looks really dry. I'd get rid of the sand (?) substrate immediately and follow the exact directions on the care sheet here on this forum to correct the substrate, lighting, temps. In the meantime - get him out of the heat and soak him. He could be dehydrated/overheated/etc. If you haven't reviewed the beginners mistakes and the care sheets yet, I would do that ASAP.



Rachel Prior said:


> The top is his current setup and the bottom is what the foam/mucus looks like.


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## Rachel Prior (Aug 14, 2017)

I already realized that the conditions were not okay after joining the website, and it's something I'm changing ASAP. But I still don't know what's causing the mucus and lack of appetite.


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## Tidgy's Dad (Aug 14, 2017)

Bad conditions ! 
Your tortoise is probably getting too hot under that lamp without moisture. 
He may need a vet visit but will not get better until you change his environment. 
Not ASAP, now.


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## threeboxerlover (Aug 14, 2017)

Rachel Prior said:


> I already realized that the conditions were not okay after joining the website, and it's something I'm changing ASAP. But I still don't know what's causing the mucus and lack of appetite.


It seems from the responses here that it could be caused from being overheated - so he definitely needs moisture and I don't think you're going to be able to get him better until you fix the conditions he's living in. I would also get him to a vet - there is a list of tortoise vets on this website. But the very first thing I would do is soak him, immediately replace that substrate and fix the temps/humidity. These are all things that you can do right away - even if you can't move him to a bigger enclosure.


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## Maitaimommy (Aug 14, 2017)

Rachel Prior said:


> I already realized that the conditions were not okay after joining the website, and it's something I'm changing ASAP. But I still don't know what's causing the mucus and lack of appetite.



Rachel,
We all make mistakes! You're here and you're aware of the problem(s) I believe you are taking the appropriate steps to correct them. Please call a vet and ask about the mucus and lack of appetite right away. Wishing you and your little one the best.


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## Rachel Prior (Aug 14, 2017)

My tortoise isn't using his front legs. He scrabbles with his back legs but he's not really going anywhere because he's not using the front ones. I'm sorry I keep adding things to the list, but as I first time tort owner I'm freaking out!


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## Maitaimommy (Aug 14, 2017)

No need to apologize. You're on here and you're asking for help. Did you call a vet?


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## TammyJ (Aug 14, 2017)

Rachel Prior said:


> My tortoise isn't using his front legs. He scrabbles with his back legs but he's not really going anywhere because he's not using the front ones. I'm sorry I keep adding things to the list, but as I first time tort owner I'm freaking out!


He needs to be taken to the vet without delay. No doubt about that.


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## threeboxerlover (Aug 14, 2017)

Rachel Prior said:


> My tortoise isn't using his front legs. He scrabbles with his back legs but he's not really going anywhere because he's not using the front ones. I'm sorry I keep adding things to the list, but as I first time tort owner I'm freaking out!



It can be so scary and I know there is so much conflicting info on the internet - but luckily you are here now and I can tell you the people here know what they're talking about and are very helpful. I have a two year old hermanns and I'm always on here searching for info and asking questions. 
I would definitely get him to a vet. There is a list of vets on this forum.


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## Rachel Prior (Aug 14, 2017)

I'm taking him to someone who specializes in reptiles.


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## threeboxerlover (Aug 14, 2017)

Rachel Prior said:


> I'm taking him to someone who specializes in reptiles.


Good luck - I hope he is okay.


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## Rachel Prior (Aug 14, 2017)

So they said his shell was soft- which means he isn't getting enough calcium or UV rays. I bought calcium powder and a UV bulb. How far away should I place it?


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## Tidgy's Dad (Aug 14, 2017)

It should say on the packaging. 
What type did you get ?


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## mike taylor (Aug 14, 2017)

This is the setup I have for my leopards . I have a heat lamp on one side and a Che on the other side . I have the heat lamp set on a timer for 12 hours on 12 off . The Che is on a thermostat set to 80 . I use a fogger set on a timer for 20 minute cycles . See that heat gun sitting on top of the enclosure? That's what I use to check all around temperatures.


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## BILBO-03 (Aug 14, 2017)

mike taylor said:


> This is the setup I have for my leopards . I have a heat lamp on one side and a Che on the other side . I have the heat lamp set on a timer for 12 hours on 12 off . The Che is on a thermostat set to 80 . I use a fogger set on a timer for 20 minute cycles . See that heat gun sitting on top of the enclosure? That's what I use to check all around temperatures.
> 
> View attachment 215599


Well done! Beautiful setup. How big is that?


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## Rachel Prior (Aug 14, 2017)

What kind of lighting other than the heating and UV is needed? I will refer back to your care sheet.


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## Maitaimommy (Aug 14, 2017)

You're doing great! Lots of stuff to learn when you're a new tort keeper. Keep asking questions and checking this site


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## mike taylor (Aug 14, 2017)

BILBO-03 said:


> Well done! Beautiful setup. How big is that?


It's four and a half or five foot long and a little under three feet deep.


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## ZEROPILOT (Aug 15, 2017)

Rachel Prior said:


> So they said his shell was soft- which means he isn't getting enough calcium or UV rays. I bought calcium powder and a UV bulb. How far away should I place it?


You've kept him how long without a UV bulb?
The vet didn't pick up on that?
Damage done from a lack of UV can be very bad. And it may be what has caused this chain of events.


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## ZEROPILOT (Aug 15, 2017)

Rachel Prior said:


> What kind of lighting other than the heating and UV is needed? I will refer back to your care sheet.


A strip florescent U.V. Not a coiled type bulb. 
Swap out the sand to orchid bark, also. Up the humidity.


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## threeboxerlover (Aug 15, 2017)

Rachel Prior said:


> What kind of lighting other than the heating and UV is needed? I will refer back to your care sheet.


Check out the pic posted here. He needs a either a mercury vapor bulb which would provide UVB and basking, or a basking light (it can be a regular light) and a strip UVB bulb. On the care sheet it should tell you what temps he needs throughout the enclosure and also what basking temp. Most people on here I think prefer the dual strip UVB and basking, but if you want to do all in one, you can get a Mercury Vapor Bulb. He needs a certain temperature to digest his food and get the nutrients, and he needs the UVB to prevent multiple health issues. You can find the strip UVB at a hardware store or Lowes/Home Depot. the MVB you can get a most pet stores - just make sure to check the wattage (they come in 100, 125 and 160 I believe). You don't want to get one that is too high wattage because you'd then have to raise it up to regulate the temperature and that would reduce the UVB he is getting. That's one of the issues with the MVB bulbs. Good luck. I hope he is doing better.


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## Rachel Prior (Aug 15, 2017)

I sprinkled calcium powder on his food, but he won't eat it. What do I do? He's not getting calcium because he refuses to eat. He just sits under his lights.


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## Tidgy's Dad (Aug 15, 2017)

How long have you had him in this enclosure?
Have you changed everything as per the care sheets, or Mike's photo above ?
What temperature is his basking spot, warm side, cool side and overnight low ?


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## Rachel Prior (Aug 15, 2017)

Yes everything has been changed but he still refuses to eat.


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## TammyJ (Aug 15, 2017)

I am sorry for the little tortoise and I do wish the very best for his recovery.


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## Tidgy's Dad (Aug 15, 2017)

Well, if you have changed the enclosure, substrate and everything else, then he is going to take time to settle in to his new enclosure. It is not unusual for them not to eat for many days after a big life change like that. 
A photo of the new enclosure would be helpful.
Have you seen the vet yet about his mobility problems ?


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## Rachel Prior (Aug 15, 2017)

Thank you.


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## Rachel Prior (Aug 15, 2017)

I called and they think he's just feeling weak from the lack of calcium. If he doesn't perk up in a couple of days then I will take him again.


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## threeboxerlover (Aug 15, 2017)

Rachel Prior said:


> I called and they think he's just feeling weak from the lack of calcium. If he doesn't perk up in a couple of days then I will take him again.


Some people on here recommend soaking in a mix of strained baby food carrots and water. I know it seems like everyone keeps asking the same things over and over in response to a specific question you're asking, but if one seemingly small thing is off, it can mess up everything else you've tried to do! People are trying to make sure there isn't anything in his set up that is contributing to what's going on.... Good luck with him.


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## Rachel Prior (Aug 15, 2017)

If I put the calcium powder in the water I'm soaking him in, do you think he'd absorb some of it into his skin?


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## threeboxerlover (Aug 15, 2017)

Rachel Prior said:


> If I put the calcium powder in the water I'm soaking him in, do you think he'd absorb some of it into his skin?


I have never seen that suggested nor have I heard of doing that. Hopefully someone more knowledgeable than I will see this and answer.


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## Bee62 (Aug 15, 2017)

Rachel Prior said:


> If I put the calcium powder in the water I'm soaking him in, do you think he'd absorb some of it into his skin?



Torts can absorb very few percents of vitamins and minerals trough their skin but that will be not enough in that case.


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## threeboxerlover (Aug 23, 2017)

Rachel Prior said:


> If I put the calcium powder in the water I'm soaking him in, do you think he'd absorb some of it into his skin?


It's been a week or so and I'm just wondering how your baby is doing. I hope he's okay.


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## Rachel Prior (Aug 26, 2017)

He is still refusing to eat. I'm giving him soaks and he drinks, so he's staying hydrated. He hasn't eaten in probably two weeks!


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## Tom (Aug 27, 2017)

Rachel Prior said:


> He is still refusing to eat. I'm giving him soaks and he drinks, so he's staying hydrated. He hasn't eaten in probably two weeks!



Please answer these questions by the numbers:

What type of UV bulb did you get?
What are your four temperatures? Warm side, cool side, basking area, and overnight low?
What heating and lighting equipment are you using to achieve and maintain these temps?
How are you measuring temperatures? What type of thermometer and where is it placed?
What substrate is the tortoise on now?
How long did the tortoise go without being outside in the sun and with no UV bulb inside?
Lets start with these and go from there.


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## Rachel Prior (Aug 27, 2017)

1. It's not a strip light but it's not a coil
2. Around 85, 80, mid 90's and mid 70's
3. I'm only using a heat/basking bulb and UV light
4. I have a Grreat Choice thermometer/hygrometer 
5. Coconut coir
6. Probably a few weeks, short periods of time outside


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## Tom (Aug 27, 2017)

Rachel Prior said:


> 1. It's not a strip light but it's not a coil
> 2. Around 85, 80, mid 90's and mid 70's
> 3. I'm only using a heat/basking bulb and UV light
> 4. I have a Grreat Choice thermometer/hygrometer
> ...



1. Does the bulb screw in to hooded fixture that can take regular incandescent bulbs? If yes, this might be your problem. Any of the cfl type bulbs can burn their eyes. Makes them want to hide from the light and not eat. It can blind them in some cases.
2. Try about 5 degrees warmer all around.
3. What type of heat lamp? White light? Infrared spot?
6. They can get enough UV in about 2 20 minute sunning sessions per week. Would you say the tortoise got this much? If yes, then lack of D3 shouldn't be the problem.

I don't want to go back and re-read the whole thread, so, are you soaking daily?


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## Rachel Prior (Aug 28, 2017)

It screws into the fixture, but he just stays put. He really doesn't move. I'm soaking him about every other day. It's says basking bulb


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## threeboxerlover (Aug 28, 2017)

Rachel Prior said:


> It screws into the fixture, but he just stays put. He really doesn't move. I'm soaking him about every other day. It's says basking bulb



What kind of UVB bulb do you have - is it a Mercury Vapor Bulb (which acts as UV and basking and screws into a fixture) or do you have two bulbs - one basking and one UVB? Does he get any outside time and if so, how often and for how long?


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## Rachel Prior (Aug 28, 2017)

I have separate UV and heating bulbs. He gets anywhere from 20-40 minutes outside when weather permits and when I'm home to take him.


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## Bee62 (Aug 28, 2017)

At this point I think it is time to visit a VET with this tortoise ASAP.
All these assumptions won`t help the tort to start eating again. Two weeks without eating is too much to wait any longer.
That is my opinion.


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## Bee62 (Sep 2, 2017)

Are there news about your tortoise ?


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## Gillian M (Sep 2, 2017)

Rachel Prior said:


> My tortoise isn't using his front legs. He scrabbles with his back legs but he's not really going anywhere because he's not using the front ones. I'm sorry I keep adding things to the list, but as I first time tort owner I'm freaking out!


Please, please TRY to calm down.

You'll get the help you need here.


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## Gillian M (Sep 2, 2017)

Rachel Prior said:


> Yes everything has been changed but he still refuses to eat.


I'm so sorry to hear that. Extremely sorry.


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## Gillian M (Sep 2, 2017)

Rachel Prior said:


> If I put the calcium powder in the water I'm soaking him in, do you think he'd absorb some of it into his skin?


I do not think that should be done.


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## Gillian M (Sep 2, 2017)

Hi @Rachel Prior and a very warm welcome to the forum.

Has your tort changed his mind? Hope to hear that he has and that he's eaten.


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## Rachel Prior (Sep 2, 2017)

Took him to the vet. All that's going on is that he has a calcium and Vitamin A deficiency, which can be treated. That's what's causing his lethargicness and his refusal to eat. He'll be just fine!


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## Bee62 (Sep 2, 2017)

Rachel Prior said:


> Took him to the vet. All that's going on is that he has a calcium and Vitamin A deficiency, which can be treated. That's what's causing his lethargicness and his refusal to eat. He'll be just fine!



Did the VET a blood test to know that calcium and Vitamin A is too less ?


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## Rachel Prior (Sep 3, 2017)

The vet checked him out, weighed him and looked at him throughly. He felt his shell and said that he was definitely lacking the proper Vitamin A and calcium needed.


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## Rachel Prior (Sep 3, 2017)

He gave me a type of medicine fed by a syringe, but I can't figure out how to give it to him. (It's by mouth.) He won't willingly open his mouth and he keeps sucking his head back in his shell before I can do it myself.


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## Melis (Sep 3, 2017)

Try to gently hold him behind his head so he can't retract back into the shell. Then use something like the tip of the syringe to pry his mouth open. Be careful when injecting into his mouth, as you don't want him to aspirate.


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## Rachel Prior (Sep 3, 2017)

I've tried to do this but he retracts it too quickly.


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## Rachel Prior (Sep 3, 2017)

The whole ordeal seems to be very stressful.


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## Mrfuel (Sep 3, 2017)

Whenever I reach for my tortoise, he retracts, as soon as I pick him up, out his head comes...also have read that holding him a bit upside down will get his head put...... sounds like you need more hands for giving meds..
Good luck


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## Melis (Sep 4, 2017)

Mrfuel said:


> Whenever I reach for my tortoise, he retracts, as soon as I pick him up, out his head comes...also have read that holding him a bit upside down will get his head put...... sounds like you need more hands for giving meds..
> Good luck


Yes, of you have help and have someone slightly tilt him, he will stick his head out. Just try to be gentle, no sudden movements. Have you had any luck today?


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## Rachel Prior (Sep 4, 2017)

No. I tried spreading a little of the gel on his mouth and he kind of smacked his lips together like trying to eat it. He seems to be interested in it if it's squirted on a napkin in front of him, but not when it's in the syringe. He still has not ingested any.


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## Melis (Sep 4, 2017)

Maybe try mixing it with something to give it a consistency that he will be able to eat. An organic no sugar baby food may work. I've also read of people injecting it into a favorite food. I tried strawberries with my girl but she refused. That's when I knew I would have to get medical intervention because she never refused strawberries.


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## Melis (Sep 5, 2017)

Any luck yet?


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## threeboxerlover (Sep 6, 2017)

Rachel Prior said:


> No. I tried spreading a little of the gel on his mouth and he kind of smacked his lips together like trying to eat it. He seems to be interested in it if it's squirted on a napkin in front of him, but not when it's in the syringe. He still has not ingested any.



Maybe try putting it on his salad or, if you feed cactus pads, try putting it in/on there. That's the only way we could get one of ours to take medicine! Good luck!


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## Rachel Prior (Sep 22, 2017)

The little guy still won't eat, going on 1 3/4 of a month. What do I do?


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## Melis (Sep 22, 2017)

Have you been giving the medicine?


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## Rachel Prior (Sep 23, 2017)

He has not ingested any. I'm not able to sneak up and gently grab his head. I've seen videos where they gently pull the heads from the shell, but he's so tiny it's impossible.


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## Melis (Sep 23, 2017)

It's been 3 weeks since your post about the medicine. Have you contacted the vet?


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