# Identify this tortoise, please



## austinl01 (Aug 4, 2012)

A friend of mine called me yesterday because she found a large tortoise in her yard. I think it is some type of African tortoise, but I'm not sure. I told her that it had to escape from a neighbor's yard. She is going to put up some signs to try to find the owner. Can you please tell me what kind it is? It was very heavy (maybe 20 lbs) and looked to be well cared for. Thanks!


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## Jacqui (Aug 4, 2012)

Looks like a Gopher tortoise to me.


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## lisa127 (Aug 4, 2012)

He/she is beautiful.


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## MikeCow1 (Aug 4, 2012)

I think a Gopher also


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## krh11b23 (Aug 4, 2012)

Not for sure but looks like a sulcata to me


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## austinl01 (Aug 4, 2012)

I think you guys are right that it's a gopher tortoise. 

I looked up the range map and they are not native to Arkansas. Is there anyway that it migrated here or that we have gophers now in central Arkansas, or must it be someone's pet? Could they even survive our 15 degree winters?


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## tortadise (Aug 4, 2012)

Yeah definitely a gopher. A huge one too.


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## austinl01 (Aug 4, 2012)

Does it have an abscess or something on its lower mouth? I saw two large bumps on both sides of its lower jaw. I don't see this in pics online of gophers.


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## tortadise (Aug 4, 2012)

the gopherus genus in the males have glands in the lower mandible that will swell when in breeding season, thats what they are. Usually they wont swell unless being territorial or dominant during breeding. More than likely someone had this as a pet and it got out. Arkansas is pretty far from their range.


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## Mgridgaway (Aug 4, 2012)

Definitely not a sulcata. I say gopher as well. 

I was about to say those were abcesses. Never heard gopher torts had that!


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## GBtortoises (Aug 4, 2012)

I disagree, it's not a Gopher tortoise. Those "abscesses" that you see are not abscesses but chin glands which are normal in both Desert _Gopherus agassizii_ and Texas tortoise _Gopherus berlandieri_. The well developed gular scutes on the plastron under the neck are also characteristics of those two tortoises. Based on those two characteristics it is a mature adult. A big Texas tortoise is about 9" but they average around 6.5-8". They are very round in shape and high domed. Desert tortoises get larger as mature adults and are more oblong in shape with the dome of their shell not being as high but more flat on top by comparison. 
A straight line carapace measurement and plastron photo would tell more for sure.


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## tortadise (Aug 4, 2012)

GBtortoises said:


> I disagree, it's not a Gopher tortoise. Those "abscesses" that you see are not abscesses but chin glands which are normal in both Desert _Gopherus agassizii_ and Texas tortoise _Gopherus berlandieri_. The well developed gular scutes on the plastron under the neck are also characteristics of those two tortoises. Based on those two characteristics it is a mature adult. A big Texas tortoise is about 9" but they average around 6.5-8". They are very round in shape and high domed. Desert tortoises get larger as mature adults and are more oblong in shape with the dome of their shell not being as high but more flat on top by comparison.
> A straight line carapace measurement and plastron photo would tell more for sure.



You know Im going to aggree too. I was looking at the photo again, and the angles, The gophers are way flatter, as well as the shape of the head. When I had gophers there heads were more viper shapes and came to a point rather than a sloped rounded head like this one. How big is he. Could be a bolsen those guys get rather large as well.


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## Jacqui (Aug 4, 2012)

Don't look at me, I just made a wild guess. To me, it could be any of the three. I freely admit I know very little about how to tell them apart. My only first hand knowledge of a gopher was about five minutes to get her off the road and at the time, I was only worried about not getting either of us hit by a car.  I bow to your superior knowledge.


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## tortadise (Aug 4, 2012)

:


Jacqui said:


> I bow to your superior knowledge.



.....looks around..........ME???? pssshhh Im low man on the totum pole here.


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## Jacqui (Aug 4, 2012)

tortadise said:


> :
> 
> 
> Jacqui said:
> ...



No GB!


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## austinl01 (Aug 4, 2012)

Hey, it does look like a desert tortoise. I'm thinking the chin glands give it away. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desert_tortoise


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## tortadise (Aug 4, 2012)

How big is he/she? Im assuming a he by the size in the photo and the glands.


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## austinl01 (Aug 4, 2012)

Very large. I would estimate 25 pounds and a length of 20 inches. I'm seeing if my friend can measure it and take a picture of the plastron for us. He's very beefy and strong.


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## tortadise (Aug 4, 2012)

OH yeah not a gopher. Thats huge. My mistake earlier.
Wow very far from their natural range. more than likely someone had him and he got out.


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## Yvonne G (Aug 4, 2012)

My first thought was desert tortoise, but you all seemed to know what you were talking about. 

The give-away for me was the eyes. Desert tortoises have those neat, green eyes.


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## austinl01 (Aug 4, 2012)

The tortoise is now in a local sanctuary until the owner can be found or someone who wants him. She didn't have a place to keep him happy so he left this morning. My friend said last night he ate a whole bag of Romaine hearts! He is an awesome tortoise...very tame. Here are two more pics before he left. Hopefully, the owner will be found because I feel he was very well taken care of.


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## tortadise (Aug 4, 2012)

Man hes awesome. And theres those big green eyes yvonne.  Hopefully he is reunited with the owner, if not Hope he finds a great home, keep us updated on his status. Unfortunatly I dont have my permit for desert torts so My facility wouldnt be able to keep him. If he was a texas tort, id go get him.


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## austinl01 (Aug 4, 2012)

Can we get this thread moved to another forum since it turned out not to be a gopher tortoise? Thanks.


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## GBtortoises (Aug 4, 2012)

If the tortoise you have is truly 25lbs. and 20" it is not a Texas tortoise and very likely not a Desert tortoise. Within the Gopherus species only a Bolson's tortoise _Gopherus flavomarginata_ gets close to that large. Even at that weight and length it would be a larger than average Bolson's. 
How are you measuring the tortoise? And did you weigh it or is that just an estimate?


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## austinl01 (Aug 4, 2012)

GBtortoises said:


> If the tortoise you have is truly 25lbs. and 20" it is not a Texas tortoise and very likely not a Desert tortoise. Within the Gopherus species only a Bolson's tortoise _Gopherus flavomarginata_ gets close to that large. Even at that weight and length it would be a larger than average Bolson's.
> How are you measuring the tortoise? And did you weigh it or is that just an estimate?



That was just an estimation. It may not be quite that large. We can't measure it now since it is no longer at my friend's house. It's at the sanctuary.


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## GBtortoises (Aug 4, 2012)

austinl01 said:


> GBtortoises said:
> 
> 
> > If the tortoise you have is truly 25lbs. and 20" it is not a Texas tortoise and very likely not a Desert tortoise. Within the Gopherus species only a Bolson's tortoise _Gopherus flavomarginata_ gets close to that large. Even at that weight and length it would be a larger than average Bolson's.
> ...


That being the case it was most likely a Desert tortoise. No offense but most people usually tend to estimate larger when doing so by sight!


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## Jacqui (Aug 4, 2012)

emysemys said:


> The give-away for me was the eyes. Desert tortoises have those neat, green eyes.



I thought that about the eyes, but then I could not find anything to verify only the DTs of the three having them.


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## austinl01 (Aug 4, 2012)

GBtortoises said:


> austinl01 said:
> 
> 
> > GBtortoises said:
> ...




No problem. You are right. I didn't even think about measuring and weighing him while I was there. I figured the ID would be easy.


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## GBtortoises (Aug 4, 2012)

Well the good news for the tortoise is that a tortoise person found him and knew what to do with him!


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## Yvonne G (Aug 4, 2012)

austinl01 said:


> Can we get this thread moved to another forum since it turned out not to be a gopher tortoise? Thanks.



Gopher tortoises and desert tortoises (Gopherus agassizii) are both North American tortoises, and in the same forum. So its ok where it is.


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## Mgridgaway (Aug 5, 2012)

Well, I, for one, am happy that I learned something new today. Thanks for sharing the pictures and information; I hope that torts owner finds him!


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## austinl01 (Aug 8, 2012)

Great news! The owner has been found. It turns out he has had the tortoise since he was 6 years old so it must be at least 50 years old! Here is a video from the local news: 

http://www.katv.com/video?autoStart=true&topVideoCatNo=default&clipId=7589843#.UCKf7Pj5kuY.link


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## Yvonne G (Aug 8, 2012)

I had a hard time understanding the words on the video. Where was Tom lost? and where was he found?


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## CourtneyAndCarl (Aug 8, 2012)

wow, since october!?


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## austinl01 (Aug 8, 2012)

He was lost in Cabot, Arkansas and found in North Little Rock, Arkansas. It is about 25 miles away. The tortoise went missing October 2011 and was just found this month!


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## CourtneyAndCarl (Aug 8, 2012)

Kind of sad that the guy took him from the wild in California, but I assume there weren't laws back then and he's obviously provided him with very good care. I'm just amazed that he lived half a year without help. I am willing to bet he was probably moved around a lot by different people before ending up with your friend.


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## austinl01 (Aug 8, 2012)

I just don't think the tortoise traveled 25 miles from his home. We had a mild winter (18 degrees). I'm not sure if he could have survived that either. I'm thinking someone helped him. What do you think?


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## Laura (Aug 8, 2012)

Im sure he had 'help', and how did he prove it was his?


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## azkeyrealtor (Aug 9, 2012)

looks like a desert tortoise to me... My adult MALE has those under his chin too and looks very similar... CHeck out his picture so you can see this is for sure a SONORAN Desert Tortoise and he's between 40 and 50 years.


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## austinl01 (Aug 11, 2012)

There was a little bit of misinformation in the previous news story.

The tortoise lived in a home in Sherwood and was found in a neighboring city, North Little Rock. The cities are connected, but the tortoise is estimated to be found at least 8 miles away.

The tortoise was picked up in Cabot where it was taken to the sanctuary.

The owner had pictures of the tortoise to identify that it was actually hers.

Another news station picked up the story. You can watch it here:

http://www.todaysthv.com/news/article/221321/2/Tom-the-Tortoise-comes-home


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