# Cannibal Holocaust (Turtle Scene) Warning! Graphic DO NOT WATCH.



## Brandrep88 (Apr 1, 2013)

Cannibal Holocaust : Turtle Scene

do not watch, include volume.


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## diaboliqueturtle (Apr 1, 2013)

*Cannibal Holocaust (Turtle Scene) DO NOT WATCH.*

Heed the warning. I couldn't watch past 30 seconds :-(


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## Jacqui (Apr 1, 2013)

*RE: Cannibal Holocaust (Turtle Scene) DO NOT WATCH.*

Just a warning folks, do not watch if you do not wish to see a turtle killed for food.


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## EricIvins (Apr 1, 2013)

Podocnemis Expansa in case anyone wants to know......


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## mainey34 (Apr 2, 2013)

Definite warning...


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## CtTortoiseMom (Apr 2, 2013)

Oh no, I made it to where they flipped it up on the bank. It was so big and beautiful. :,(


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## Steve_McQueen (Apr 2, 2013)

There's a reason that this "film" was banned in a lot of countries...


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## AZtortMom (Apr 2, 2013)

Why is this on the forum??


Life is good


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## sibi (Apr 2, 2013)

The ban is warranted. For one, those who made the film were not only evil and cruel, but they pretended to feel sorry for the turtle(especially the girl), and the background music was patronizing. They didn't need to eat the turtle-it's not like they were starving to death. So, the film was made to extract reactions. And for that it caused the life of a magnificent creature. I still can't believe how animalistic some humans can be.


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## AZtortMom (Apr 2, 2013)

sibi said:


> The ban is warranted. For one, those who made the film were not only evil and cruel, but they pretended to feel sorry for the turtle(especially the girl), and the background music was patronizing. They didn't need to eat the turtle-it's not like they were starving to death. So, the film was made to extract reactions. And for that it caused the life of a magnificent creature. I still can't believe how animalistic some humans can be.



This stuff just pisses me off.. *starting up chainsaw* those people should be eaten, but they probably taste like chicken 


Life is good


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## jaizei (Apr 2, 2013)

I didn't realize there were so many vegetarians here on the forum.


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## DeanS (Apr 2, 2013)

I saw this movie back in the 80s...it was publicized as a 'snuff' film...the Americans were supposedly killed on film. Funny! The only scenes I couldn't watch were when animals were butchered on camera...

The animals' deaths are real...so don't watch...it's not necessary!


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## Jacqui (Apr 2, 2013)

Chainsawkitten said:


> Why is this on the forum??



Because it does have to do with turtles and tortoises. While most here do not agree that they are a source of food, some do believe eating them is okay. This clip does not violate any rules. Folks are being warned ahead of time not to watch if they do not want to see a turtle killed. We do try to be an open forum and show all different views, when possible.

Please folks, even if you have strong feelings on how bad this is, do not post things that are against the rules or would break a law.


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## taytay3391 (Apr 2, 2013)

jaizei said:


> I didn't realize there were so many vegetarians here on the forum.



Hahaha!


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## JohnBoy1 (Apr 2, 2013)

That was totally pointless for them to try and catch a meal in that manner. I myself am a outdoorsman and to catch a meal and then to wrestle with it and drag it up a bank on its back does nothing but taint the meat with adrenaline tightening the muscles and making it very tough. That was just for show and was totally wrong. A smallarms shot to the head would have been much easier if they were truly hungry instead of smiling and goofing off for fun.


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## Team Gomberg (Apr 2, 2013)

*Re: RE: Cannibal Holocaust (Turtle Scene) Warning! Graphic DO NOT WATCH.*



JohnBoy1 said:


> I myself am a outdoorsman and to catch a meal and then to wrestle with it and drag it up a bank on its back does nothing but taint the meat with adrenaline tightening the muscles and making it very tough.



I find this very interesting....


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## sibi (Apr 2, 2013)

Team Gomberg said:


> JohnBoy1 said:
> 
> 
> > I myself am a outdoorsman and to catch a meal and then to wrestle with it and drag it up a bank on its back does nothing but taint the meat with adrenaline tightening the muscles and making it very tough.
> ...


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## Team Gomberg (Apr 2, 2013)

I found it interesting that the adrenalin released during a stressful killing would affect the texture and taste of the meat itself. 

I understand a right vs. wrong way of killing. That wasn't my point.


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## sibi (Apr 2, 2013)

Okay, didn't know if you knew that. I misunderstood. My apologies.


Team Gomberg said:


> I found it interesting that the adrenalin released during a stressful killing would affect the texture and taste of the meat itself.
> 
> I understand a right vs. wrong way of killing. That wasn't my point.


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## Brandrep88 (Apr 2, 2013)

The scene would be nothing but atypical animal slaughter if not for the music.


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## AndreaRosie (Apr 2, 2013)

What is that film? It's sick.


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## Anthony P (Apr 2, 2013)

EricIvins said:


> Podocnemis Expansa in case anyone wants to know......



Oh we'll at least it's a common species rarely exploited for food.... NOT!!!


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## BeeBee*BeeLeaves (Apr 2, 2013)

Thanks for the warning. I cannot watch stuff like that. It stays with me. Like forever and always. And makes me sad. And angry. and both those emotions at the same time = crazy, cray-cray ... so no ... no see, for me.

I am just going to share what was shared with me as a child by my neighbor who was full blood Hopi Indian. However I do not think this was a Hopi belief. Perhaps just my neighbor's belief and he just happened to be Hopi. Dunno. 

"At the end of our lives, at the gate, will be all the animals we ever encountered in our lives and they will tell the Great Spirit if we should go in, or be turned away."


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## Blakem (Apr 2, 2013)

"At the end of our lives, at the gate, will be all the animals we ever encountered in our lives and they will tell the Great Spirit if we should go in, or be turned away."
[/quote]

I really like the thought of this, thanks for sharing.



Sent from my iPhone using TortoiseForum mobile app


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## Team Gomberg (Apr 2, 2013)

*Re: RE: Cannibal Holocaust (Turtle Scene) Warning! Graphic DO NOT WATCH.*



sibi said:


> Okay, didn't know if you knew that. I misunderstood. My apologies.



I figured it was a misunderstanding.


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## AndreaRosie (Apr 2, 2013)

BeeBee*BeeLeaves said:


> Thanks for the warning. I cannot watch stuff like that. It stays with me. Like forever and always. And makes me sad. And angry. and both those emotions at the same time = crazy, cray-cray ... so no ... no see, for me.
> 
> I am just going to share what was shared with me as a child by my neighbor who was full blood Hopi Indian. However I do not think this was a Hopi belief. Perhaps just my neighbor's belief and he just happened to be Hopi. Dunno.
> 
> "At the end of our lives, at the gate, will be all the animals we ever encountered in our lives and they will tell the Great Spirit if we should go in, or be turned away."



That's an amazing quote.


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## Yellow Turtle (Apr 2, 2013)

I despise this movie. They are just doing it for fun and not that they are really in need of food.

100% animal cruelty...


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## looneybug (Apr 2, 2013)

1: yes usless to kill the turtle
2: I personaly love turtles and still think its ok to eat them (my favorite animal is cows and I eat them)
3: what is this show for? Reality tv?
4: I personally am happy that they actually ate it (meaning they didn't just brutally murder it)

Please don't get mad this is just my oppinion


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## EricIvins (Apr 4, 2013)

Anthony P said:


> EricIvins said:
> 
> 
> > Podocnemis Expansa in case anyone wants to know......
> ...



Both Expansa and Unifillis are farmed by the hundreds of thousands every year for the food and pet trade. Just because they are ESA listed here doesn't mean squat.......

Interestesting backstory as to why they were ESA listed in the first place, and it has everything to do with the almighty dollar, not conservation........Thank the Ford administration for this......

I don't see why everyone is up in arms about seeing this. This is the accepted way to process a Turtle/Tortoise the world over. It happens everyday in just about every country in the world. I would love to see how else people are expected to do this. No different than shocking Poultry or using a bolt on a Cow........Lets face facts here; Turtles and Tortoises are used as a protein source the world over. This is not going to change just because people who keep these animals as pets in America are up in arms about it........


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## sibi (Apr 4, 2013)

Just because the world over kill animals inhumanly doesn't mean we shouldn't be appalled by their methods. It's the common acceptance of these types of practices that allows this to continue. In condoning these acts, man acts worse than the animals they kill. And, just for your information, before I owned any reptiles, I always objected to inhumane treatment of any animal including humans. For hunting food, like I stated before, there is a right way to hunt and there is a wrong way. The people who made this film has more on their minds than hunger. They went about it the wrong way because if they would've acted compassionately, they could've killed the animal so as to minimize the suffering. You see, that's what separates man from beast (or so I thought).


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## terryo (Apr 4, 2013)

In Korea they beat their dogs before killing them, because there is a perverted belief that the meat tastes better if dogs have high adrenaline levels in their meat before they die.


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## EricIvins (Apr 4, 2013)

sibi said:


> Just because the world over kill animals inhumanly doesn't mean we shouldn't be appalled by their methods. It's the common acceptance of these types of practices that allows this to continue. In condoning these acts, man acts worse than the animals they kill. And, just for your information, before I owned any reptiles, I always objected to inhumane treatment of any animal including humans. For hunting food, like I stated before, there is a right way to hunt and there is a wrong way. The people who made this film has more on their minds than hunger. They went about it the wrong way because if they would've acted compassionately, they could've killed the animal so as to minimize the suffering. You see, that's what separates man from beast (or so I thought).



So how could they have killed this animal more humanely? I'm not appalled at all. No different than putting an arrow or bullet through a Deer and having it run 50 yards until it drops, or a bolt through a Cows skull. How can you act compassionately by killing anything? Hypocrisy?


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## mctlong (Apr 4, 2013)

I headed the warning and didn't watch the video. 

I see anything wrong with eating turtles or tortoises, per se. I don't personally eat them because I keep them as pets and that would be weird, but I have no problem knowing that other people eat turtles. I eat fish, cow, chickens, and pigs and people keep all of those as pets. Technically, turtle is just another source of protein. 

However, I do strongly believe that the animals we eat should be killed as quickly and humanely as possible. There's no point in tormenting them. Thats just sadistic and cruel.


Btw, why is the video called "cannibal holocaust" if there's no cannibalism?


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## Spn785 (Apr 4, 2013)

BeeBee*BeeLeaves said:


> Thanks for the warning. I cannot watch stuff like that. It stays with me. Like forever and always. And makes me sad. And angry. and both those emotions at the same time = crazy, cray-cray ... so no ... no see, for me.
> 
> I am just going to share what was shared with me as a child by my neighbor who was full blood Hopi Indian. However I do not think this was a Hopi belief. Perhaps just my neighbor's belief and he just happened to be Hopi. Dunno.
> 
> "At the end of our lives, at the gate, will be all the animals we ever encountered in our lives and they will tell the Great Spirit if we should go in, or be turned away."



I'm not sure if its Hopi, but it is a Native American belief, just not sure which tribe or tribes.

Another point I'd like to make is that people are saying that the people in these films are acting like or worse than animals. I think (and this is just my opinion so please nobody take offense) that humans in general are worse than animals. Animals never kill without a reason, they never hold a grudge, they don't show anger to each other or hatred, they know their place in the scheme of things and don't fight it. We humans go against ALL of this. I think it is better to act like an animal than it is to act like a human.


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## mctlong (Apr 4, 2013)

Spn785 said:


> I think (and this is just my opinion so please nobody take offense) that humans in general are worse than animals. Animals never kill without a reason, they never hold a grudge, they don't show anger to each other or hatred, they know their place in the scheme of things and don't fight it. We humans go against ALL of this. I think it is better to act like an animal than it is to act like a human.



Felines will kill without reason. Out of instinct, they'll kill easy prey if it crosses their path, regardless of hunger. Lots of time, they kill, and when the animal is dead, just walk away with no attempt to eat it. They simply have no morality when it comes to killing and are incapable of understanding the impacts of their actions on the other animal. The thing with people is that we function on more than instinct. We have the ability to reduce our cruelty and many people choose not to. Thats sad.

(Here's a synopsis of a recent study that fond that cats only eat 30% of the animals they kill: http://www.dailytech.com/Kitty+Cameras+Find+US+House+Cats+Killing+More+Prey+Than+Previously+Known/article25368.htm )




terryo said:


> In Korea they beat their dogs before killing them, because there is a perverted belief that the meat tastes better if dogs have high adrenaline levels in their meat before they die.



WTF?!


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## Kapidolo Farms (Apr 4, 2013)

So, I would guess none of you have seen the "McCord" video, that would give you perspective that they did kill this turtle about as humanly as possible, a quick head removal. 

I did a necropsy on a large snapping turtle many years ago, the heart continued to beat for several hours afterward, sitting by itself on a paper towel on the lab table, completely removed from the turtle - who was given so much euthanasia fluid it would have killed an adult cow, that much, really. All under the supervision of a veterinarian.

That the turtle in this video appears to be struggling long after it is effectively dead (head removed) indicates the autonomy of movement based on non-brain directed impulses to limbs. 

I mediated an angry crowd of a turtle society meeting after a public showing of the McCord video. I like all animals, even those that I have eaten. But Fish get the worst of it, they are often brought up from their aquatic environment, the source of EVERYTHING they need, and get laid in an air environment or packed on ice, to die slow and horrific deaths, farmed raised or wild caught.

Chicken are sprayed with a saline solution so electricity will better transmit through their feathers, then shocked to stimulate a quicker heart rate, throat cut, but not to nick the spinal cord, they bleed out in less than 30 seconds, get their hocks removed, de-feathered, and then "cleaned".

About one in a few million, are still alive wiggling around and trying to 'get away' with no feet, head, feathers, or means to live just before evisceration. So that a turtle is wiggling around withut a head is a gruesome image, and perhaps served no really hungry people in this film, but it was as humane a death as is possible for meat consumption.

As Eric has pointed out literally billions of animals are killed for food every year. You either eat meat or you get some benefit from others who do, so in some sense until all are no meat eaters, we are all meat eaters, worse when you consider some people who farm holistic organic produce are meat eaters too.

Will


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## Spn785 (Apr 4, 2013)

Shelly, about the report on cats, what they don't explain is that there probably is a reason. I can think of three: 1) Cats are very territorial to any animal that is smaller than themselves and sometimes to animals bigger than themseles; 2) They obviously do eat some of the animals they kill, and this report does not do a very accurate account of cats in general (they only use cats from one are and not a large number of them either) so the 30% is up for question (once again my opinion, I would trust this more if they did more than a thousand cats in different cities); 3) They are practicing their hunting skills. So it is probably a combination of these three things. Cats are notorious for playing with their prey before they kill it as well, but (this is what I was told from a zoo keeper when I was working at the St. Louis Zoo) house cats are the only felines that play with their food or kill so much unnecessarily. Lion cubs and other "big cats" do, but only when they are young and learning to hunt. It is interesting that cats are so unusual compared to other animals though.


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## Tom (Apr 4, 2013)

Spn785 said:


> Another point I'd like to make is that people are saying that the people in these films are acting like or worse than animals. I think (and this is just my opinion so please nobody take offense) that humans in general are worse than animals. Animals never kill without a reason, they never hold a grudge, they don't show anger to each other or hatred, they know their place in the scheme of things and don't fight it. We humans go against ALL of this. I think it is better to act like an animal than it is to act like a human.



This is a commonly held belief, but it is just not true. Animals kill indiscriminately all the time. Camels, Cape buffalo, rhinos, Tasmanian devils, mantis shrimp, black mambas, dolphins, elephants, dogs, ravens, fish, etc. The list is endless. One could argue the "reason" in any of these cases, but one could also argue the "reason" why people do it.

Animals also most certainly do hold grudges, show anger and demonstrate hatred. I see this daily.

As far as knowing their place and not fighting it, sorry, false. Grab a ground squirrel with your hand and see how well he non-violently accepts his place in the food chain. Tell the lion with the broken jaw who got kicked by a zebra, how the zebra knows and accepts his place in the grand scheme of things.

Living wild is a constant fight and struggle. It is violent, deadly, dangerous and most decidedly unkind. Ever other animal wants to eat you or hurt you so you can't eat them. They want to steal and fight over each others shelter, territory, mates and food sources. Male lions come into a new pride of females and kill all the babies, so the females will go into heat sooner. This idyllic "Disney" version of wildlife has always perplexed and confused me. Ever since I was little, I did not understand the things I was shown on animal shows. It did not add up with the reality that I saw with my own eyes in the real world. They clearly edit things to leave their audience with a warm heart and good feelings about the world. Accurate portrayal of wildlife is not the goal of the entertainment industry.


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## Spn785 (Apr 4, 2013)

Well, seems as if I've been told.  I know I don't have Tom's experience with animals so I haven't seen animals hold grudges or show hatred or anger. I didn't know that other anuimals killed indiscrimantely (sp?) either. I did know that animals fight back even if they are prey, I'm just not sure of how to word my point regarding that. I also know that living wild is a struggle and a fight, and that is it bloody and gruesome most of the time. That I have seen personally.


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## Tom (Apr 4, 2013)

Not trying to "serve" you. I like you. It's just that I work with animals all day every day and have been a student of the natural world as long as I've been alive, and I see and hear all sorts of misinformation every day. I try to clear it up when possible, but my bedside manner is lacking sometimes. Especially in the typed word. Tactfulness has never been my strong point. I mean you no insult. I'm just kinda blunt when typing.


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## Cowboy_Ken (Apr 4, 2013)

One of the saddest things I've ever seen in the idyllic animal world was a male black rhino, flip out and decide his very young male offspring was competition. It was terrible. Reminded me too much of human psychosis.


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## Shannon and Jason (Apr 4, 2013)

I didn't watch the full video but growing up my grand father was from louisana and when we would go visit he would occassionally make turtle soup.....the way they killed the turtles were by cutting off the heads. Now they didn't make a big production about it and it was done as swiftly as possible. I know it looked to be very inhumane but there are far worse ways to kill an animal. They also ate the turtle which means it wasn't killed for nothing (even if they werent starving).


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## Tom (Apr 4, 2013)

Cowboy_Ken said:


> One of the saddest things I've ever seen in the idyllic animal world was a male black rhino, flip out and decide his very young male offspring was competition. It was terrible. Reminded me too much of human psychosis.



Did you see the one with the Hippo? Same story. This big male just went after this juvenile. Took a long time to kill it. Gut wrenching to watch. Mother tried to stop it but failed.


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## Yvonne G (Apr 4, 2013)

My grandfather used to raise chickens to eat. I was in the basement one time when he was killing a couple of them for dinner. He chopped off the head and the body went running around the basement, headless for long enough for me to escape up the stairs screaming.


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## Godcomplex (Apr 4, 2013)

sibi said:


> Team Gomberg said:
> 
> 
> > JohnBoy1 said:
> ...


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## terryo (Apr 4, 2013)

emysemys said:


> My grandfather used to raise chickens to eat. I was in the basement one time when he was killing a couple of them for dinner. He chopped off the head and the body went running around the basement, headless for long enough for me to escape up the stairs screaming.



I've had similar experiences Yvonne. My Dad used to get a Turkey and we'd play with it all Summer and then he would kill it for Thanksgiving. My sister and I were looking out our bedroom window and saw the headless turkey running around the yard. Although he taught me how to respect and love animals, he was brought up on a farm, and ate what he raised. Maybe that's why I don't eat meat today.


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## sibi (Apr 5, 2013)

In hunting, often cutting off the head of an animal is considered to be the most humane method; however, I have a problem with that. Regardless of the size of the animal's brain, if the head is cut off, there is still some brain activity however brief it is. With brain activity, there's still the possibility of pain sensation. Euthanizing an animal so that all brain activity is dead and the heart stops beating is as humane as it gets. But, that's not what the film showed. Instead, it showed the common, acceptable method of chopping off the head. Just because a method is acceptable doesn't mean it's the most humane.


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## tortoises101 (Apr 5, 2013)

Age restricted...


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## morloch (Apr 5, 2013)

Just horrible!!


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## jaizei (Apr 5, 2013)

emysemys said:


> My grandfather used to raise chickens to eat. I was in the basement one time when he was killing a couple of them for dinner. He chopped off the head and the body went running around the basement, headless for long enough for me to escape up the stairs screaming.



I think the case of Mike the headless chicken is interesting.


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