# Sulcata x CDT



## mctlong (Jul 11, 2016)

A biologist I work with claims to own a sully x CDT hybrid. He is adamant that it is a hybrid and claims to have had the sully mama since she was a hatchling. His only other tortoise is a CDT; therefor, he claims, there could be no other father and this hatchling must be a hybrid. I've requested pics. I'm sure you can all understand my skepticism. The hatchling was the only survivor in its clutch and he keeps the sully and CDT separated to prevent any more accidents.

So my question - has anyone ever seen or heard of a sully CDT hybrid? Alot of folks release their unwanted sullies in the CDT's habitat in our deserts here is SoCal. It would be very interesting if they produce viable offsping.


----------



## Yvonne G (Jul 11, 2016)

A few years ago there was a member who swore they knew of this type cross too, but was never able to come up with pictures of the animal.

@jaizei - can you find that thread for us?

Shelly: Is there any hope we can see pictures of the hybrid?


----------



## Blakem (Jul 11, 2016)

This would be interesting.


----------



## BrianWI (Jul 11, 2016)

Hybrids are extremely interesting and can be helpful for studying certain things. Many pet groups treat hybrids as evil and drive them underground. I always recommend against bashing hybrids. While I would not support creating them willy-nilly, it is always best if you keep it in the open and keep track of those animals. For instance, for those that breed three-toed box turtles, wouldn't it suck if your new female was actually an eastern by three-toed cross and no one told you because they were afraid of ridicule?


----------



## mctlong (Jul 11, 2016)

Yvonne G said:


> Shelly: Is there any hope we can see pictures of the hybrid?


 Hopefully. I've requested pics.


BrianWI said:


> Hybrids are extremely interesting and can be helpful for studying certain things. Many pet groups treat hybrids as evil and drive them underground. I always recommend against bashing hybrids. While I would not support creating them willy-nilly, it is always best if you keep it in the open and keep track of those animals. For instance, for those that breed three-toed box turtles, wouldn't it suck if your new female was actually an eastern by three-toed cross and no one told you because they were afraid of ridicule?



There is a fear about discussing hybrids, especially CDTs. In most cases, owning CDTs requires a CDFG permit. I don't own any myself, but have been told that intentionally breeding them is a violation of this permit. Creating hybrids of protected species is definitely frowned upon by many, but I don't want this thread to turn into hybrid bashing. If anyone has any examples of hybrids but are afraid of posting due to potential ridicule or judgment, feel free to PM me instead. I'd love to see pics and promise not to out you.

If sully and CDT mating can produce offspring, it'll be interesting to see if and how this affects the wild CDT population here in SoCal. People release their pet sullies into the CDT habitats all the time. Some questions that come to mind for me -

-- What would a CDT Sully hybrid look like?
-- Would biologists immediately recognize it as a hybrid during their surveys or would they records it as one or the other depending on which parent it resembled most? If hybrids resemble one parent more than the other, are biologists misreporting them if/when they come across them in the wild?
-- Would hybrid hatchlings be equipped to survive in the SoCal desert?
-- There is a theory that released pet sullies introduced a virus causing RIs to the wild CDT population. Would sully genes make a hybrid more resistant to the RIs?


----------



## BrianWI (Jul 11, 2016)

mctlong said:


> Hopefully. I've requested pics.
> 
> 
> There is a fear about discussing hybrids, especially CDTs. In most cases, owning CDTs requires a CDFG permit. I don't own any myself, but have been told that intentionally breeding them is a violation of this permit. Creating hybrids of protected species is definitely frowned upon by many, but I don't want this thread to turn into hybrid bashing.
> ...



In captivity, hybridization wouldn't be an issue of any kind (except emotional for some and maybe legal issues that exist). In the wild, the issues could be your list and many more items beyond that. I would have a lot of questions myself.

1. Do released sulcata survive any length of time?
2. Do they pass any diseases or parasites to CDT's?
3. Would mating even occur in the wild between them?
Those are a few opening questions.


----------

