# How authoritative is the tortoise table diet guideline?



## mrscruffy (Oct 6, 2014)

Hi,

http://www.thetortoisetable.org.uk/site/tortoise_home_1.asp

It is a great resource and the creators deserve credit for all of the work they put into it, but I wonder how developed is the science underpinning a lot of the claims about specific plants? I presume that not much toxicity testing has been done specifically on tortoises.

It seems that different species have evolved to have different diets and Manouria's seem to break a lot of diet rules in the table. e.g alocasia.

What are your thoughts or experiences? Do you ignore their dietary claims with your torts?


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## Yvonne G (Oct 6, 2014)

I don't worry about it. For example they were just talking over on the chat thread about how toxic asparagus fern is. I have had an asparagus fern in with my special needs box turtles for many years. they love hiding under it. It is a perfect hiding place. 

I guess you might say that I push the envelope. I plant recently bought plants directly into the habitats. I don't worry about if a plant is toxic or not. The only plants I will not have on my property are oleander. 

When The Tortoise Table was first alluded to on this Forum, I used to go over there all the time and look stuff up. But I quickly realized they were telling us about all these toxic plants that I have in my tortoise yards.

So, to answer your question, I think it is a good general guide, but everyone should use their own judgement.


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## Jodie (Oct 6, 2014)

Yvonne has great luck pushing the envelope. I am not usually lucky and do not test my bad luck. I am very cautious with the plants I put in my enclosures.


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## tortadise (Oct 6, 2014)

Yvonne G said:


> I don't worry about it. For example they were just talking over on the chat thread about how toxic asparagus fern is. I have had an asparagus fern in with my special needs box turtles for many years. they love hiding under it. It is a perfect hiding place.
> 
> I guess you might say that I push the envelope. I plant recently bought plants directly into the habitats. I don't worry about if a plant is toxic or not. The only plants I will not have on my property are oleander.
> 
> ...


Interesting about the asparagus fern. I use these heavily as well without issue. One thing I do notice with the fern being the erosa pen is they will eat the boston fern but not the asparagus fern. I had no idea they were listed toxic. I would remove it anyways. It's they're favorite place to seek shelter.


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## Jacqui (Oct 6, 2014)

I am another of the "push the envelope" type folks. I do consider what tortoise will be getting the plant (for example: is it a Russian or sulcata who will eat it all in one enormous bite or an erosa who most likely will never even take a small lady like nibble). I listen more to what other tortoise keepers have found works for them, with that table being about third on my list of things to follow. To me it is a guide, not a black and white written in stone ruling.


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## Yellow Turtle01 (Oct 6, 2014)

I think it is a great website. BUT, I do believe they are little over-cautious with some things, which can be a good thing, but I think it's good to double check elsewhere in case the plant in question might actually be toxic/okay.


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## Abdulla6169 (Oct 6, 2014)

Purslane is completely edible, but it's listed as "do not feed". Over cautious, which is pretty bad...


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## Elohi (Oct 6, 2014)

I received iffy info, yet again, about another plant I've looked up. The "marguerite sweet potato vine". Tortoise table doesn't even have it so I put in Ipomoea and it only lists a purple flowering variety and the information was not helpful at all.


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## Elohi (Oct 6, 2014)

I plan to use the asparagus fern. And I plan to go get more. 
The mondo grass was listed poorly as well. I used it with my boxie and all he ever did was hide around it.


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## Jacqui (Oct 6, 2014)

Elohi said:


> I received iffy info, yet again, about another plant I've looked up. The "marguerite sweet potato vine". Tortoise table doesn't even have it so I put in Ipomoea and it only lists a purple flowering variety and the information was not helpful at all.



The sweet potato vine is one which most places advise against using, but one which I know several folks in here (such as Len I believe is one) who do use it. I have saw it used with emys, redfoot/cherryheads, and hingebacks for sure.


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## Elohi (Oct 6, 2014)

Jacqui said:


> The sweet potato vine is one which most places advise against using, but one which I know several folks in here (such as Len I believe is one) who do use it. I have saw it used with emys, redfoot/cherryheads, and hingebacks for sure.


Ah. Thanks Jacqui! Very helpful!


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## tortadise (Oct 6, 2014)

Jacqui said:


> The sweet potato vine is one which most places advise against using, but one which I know several folks in here (such as Len I believe is one) who do use it. I have saw it used with emys, redfoot/cherryheads, and hingebacks for sure.


Yep I use it too. It's in elongated, Burmese black, Redfoot, and Yellowfoots pen. They have never eaten it or tried that I have seen.


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## Jacqui (Oct 6, 2014)

tortadise said:


> Yep I use it too. It's in elongated, Burmese black, Redfoot, and Yellowfoots pen. They have never eaten it or tried that I have seen.



Yep, you were one of the folks I was recalling in my poor memory banks.


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## tortadise (Oct 6, 2014)

Jacqui said:


> Yep, you were one of the folks I was recalling in my poor memory banks.


Honestly I have a boatload of plants I use I'm sure are toxic. Who knows.


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## leigti (Oct 6, 2014)

I remember reading several posts on here or for the last couple years that said that basically the tortoise table website was a pretty good one but overly cautious on the recommendations.


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## Alaskamike (Oct 6, 2014)

One thing I've noted with my Leopards when I allow them to graze in the weeds - they seem to be very good at putting their nose on a plant and deciding wether to take a bite or not. 

I'm sure this is not foolproof, but there seems to be a difference between feeding the torts something - and grazing behavior that is more selective on their part. 

And all mine love purslane, which is a favorite common weed eaten by Florida gopher tortoises.


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## bouaboua (Oct 6, 2014)

Jacqui said:


> The sweet potato vine is one which most places advise against using, but one which I know several folks in here (such as Len I believe is one) who do use it. I have saw it used with emys, redfoot/cherryheads, and hingebacks for sure.


I feed sweet potato leaf to all my torts (Leo, Sulcats, stars, Radiated, etc), of cause by proportion and different volume. They all love it.


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## G-stars (Oct 6, 2014)

Here's another good website too. I find that sometimes these 2 sites contradict each other but for the most part they agree. I check both. 


— Gus


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## puffy137 (Oct 6, 2014)

Yvonne G said:


> I don't worry about it. For example they were just talking over on the chat thread about how toxic asparagus fern is. I have had an asparagus fern in with my special needs box turtles for many years. they love hiding under it. It is a perfect hiding place.
> 
> I guess you might say that I push the envelope. I plant recently bought plants directly into the habitats. I don't worry about if a plant is toxic or not. The only plants I will not have on my property are oleander.
> 
> ...


Very well said Yvonne, I have many trees here that I don't know the names of, I give them a few leaves & if they go for them , with no ill effects then its ok. Oleander is one of the few plants that grow well here , luckily I've never added that. The smell of those leaves is off-putting even for humans. I'm going to a plant nursery today to see if I can find an olive tree which will provide some shade,& be very appropriate for Greeks. I'll buy a small one & hope they will deign to not strip the bark , but let it grow.


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## Abdulla6169 (Oct 7, 2014)

puff 137 said:


> Very well said Yvonne, I have many trees here that I don't know the names of, I give them a few leaves & if they go for them , with no ill effects then its ok. Oleander is one of the few plants that grow well here , luckily I've never added that. The smell of those leaves is off-putting even for humans. I'm going to a plant nursery today to see if I can find an olive tree which will provide some shade,& be very appropriate for Greeks. I'll buy a small one & hope they will deign to not strip the bark , but let it grow.


Be careful, olive tree roots spread...


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## Abdulla6169 (Oct 7, 2014)

G-stars said:


> Here's another good website too. I find that sometimes these 2 sites contradict each other but for the most part they agree. I check both.
> 
> 
> — Gus


When 2 sites contradict, I choose to let my tortoise eat the plant....


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## puffy137 (Oct 7, 2014)

AbdullaAli said:


> Be careful, olive tree roots spread...


 
Whoops Abdulla its already bought & planted. Its a young tree, 8ft tall thereabouts,cost me 15KD. It has a good root system & looks good. Hope the roots don't decide to grow into the drains .


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## Abdulla6169 (Oct 7, 2014)

puff 137 said:


> Whoops Abdulla its already bought & planted. Its a young tree, 8ft tall thereabouts,cost me 15KD. It has a good root system & looks good. Hope the roots don't decide to grow into the drains .


I hope it grows well then


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## Yellow Turtle01 (Oct 7, 2014)

bouaboua said:


> I feed sweet potato leaf to all my torts (Leo, Sulcats, stars, Radiated, etc), of cause by proportion and different volume. They all love it.


I agree. I have a bunch of vines and my russain enjoys snacking on them as a treat


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## Angel Carrion (Jul 2, 2015)

I think they are overly cautious like others here have said, but I also think you know your tortie/turtle, and know their grazing habits. So if your guy isn't much of a grazer while in the enclosure or only grazes on the plants that are okay for them, then I think it would be okay. But if your guy grazes heavily on everything and anything growing inside the enclosure, then it might be a good idea to remove/not plant those there.


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## JoesMum (Jul 2, 2015)

They are overly cautious.... for example tomato is don't feed whereas occasional is fine. 

Buttercup is also do not feed, but Joe would have died years ago if that were the case; I try to stop it spreading over my entire lawn, but I don't remove it because of Joe. I won't pick buttercups for him if I'm out weed picking though. 

However, for beginners especially, I think it is brilliant and, it's better to be safe than sorry.


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## DawnH (Jul 2, 2015)

JoesMum said:


> They are overly cautious.... for example tomato is don't feed whereas occasional is fine.
> 
> Buttercup is also do not feed, but Joe would have died years ago if that were the case; I try to stop it spreading over my entire lawn, but I don't remove it because of Joe. I won't pick buttercups for him if I'm out weed picking though.
> 
> However, for beginners especially, I think it is brilliant and, it's better to be safe than sorry.



110% spot on and my thoughts on TTT exactly!! (Love that site!)


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## Tidgy's Dad (Jul 6, 2015)

I love TTT too, but they are overly cautious, which, for them is sensible, as they cannot risk being blamed for poisoning someones tortoise.
And don't forget that toxicity doesn't mean a nibble will cause your tortoise to drop down dead immediately.
Some may just make your tortoise a little bit ill, others build up until they reach a critical mass and then cause a problem and there are more that will slowly destroy internal organs over the years like us smoking cigarettes.
Did you know chocolate is poisonous?
It can kill many animals in only small doses and is toxic to humans too.
It causes theobromine poisoning but the amount that would be needed to be consumed to cause harm to a human is many kilos, though the elderly have been known to suffer from it more easily.


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## Odin's Gma (Jul 7, 2015)

Tidgy's Dad said:


> I love TTT too, but they are overly cautious, which, for them is sensible, as they cannot risk being blamed for poisoning someones tortoise.
> And don't forget that toxicity doesn't mean a nibble will cause your tortoise to drop down dead immediately.


Precisely what I was going to say, and in their shoes I would always err on the side of caution. 
It is a fabulous tool, but I always take my research beyond their recommendations. More knowledge is always a good thing.


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## pepsiandjac (Aug 18, 2015)

They are a bit over cautious,but I suppose it's better than 5 years down the line thousands of tortoises get liver damage because of advice you have given,and if you have any queries just email them and they'll get back to you straight away.
When Benny B was born with the large egg sac,one of the TTable creators stayed online with me nearly all night,just giving advice and support ,because i was a wreck by this time.
She was fabulous ,fair play


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## TurtleBug (Aug 19, 2015)

Tidgy's Dad said:


> I love TTT too, but they are overly cautious, which, for them is sensible, as they cannot risk being blamed for poisoning someones tortoise.
> And don't forget that toxicity doesn't mean a nibble will cause your tortoise to drop down dead immediately.
> Some may just make your tortoise a little bit ill, others build up until they reach a critical mass and then cause a problem and there are more that will slowly destroy internal organs over the years



That's what I am thinking also.


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## Angi (Oct 4, 2015)

I recently had a tortoise die. I don't know why, but I did look up all the plants in my tort yard and I had a plameria (sp?) that lost its flowers. I think poor Shelby might have eaten them. I moved the plant immediately. According to The Tortoise Table it is in the same family as Oleander  I think it can be helpful.


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