# Big spenders in China are targeting U.S.



## Cowboy_Ken (Jun 7, 2017)

Big spenders in China are targeting U.S. species of turtles and tortoises as collector's items and cuisine

LA Times, 6/4/17, by Louis Sahagun

Federal wildlife inspectors were randomly checking packages headed for China a month ago at a downtown Los Angeles post office when they were alarmed to find 170 turtles hidden in men’s socks in a cardboard box with no return address.

But it was not just another creative attempt by global animal traffickers serving wealthy collectors in China willing to pay tens of thousands of dollars for critically endangered turtles and tortoises.

Conservationists say the case involving 70 spotted turtles and 100 eastern box turtles confiscated on May 9 is a troubling example of how China’s appetite for turtles has grown to include relatively common native species in the United States.

“This case signals a new and distressing trend: poachers in the U.S. willing to swap our own wildlife for a few dollars from Chinese collectors,” Paul Gibbons, chief operating officer of the nonprofit Turtle Conservancy's Behler Chelonian Center in Ventura County, said.

“The Chinese have already driven their own species to near extinction, and now they are raiding ours.”

Spotted turtles and box turtles fetch up to $1,000 each on the black market in China, where they are in high demand because their red and gold markings make them symbols of good fortune and status and, when eaten, sources of sexual prowess and cures for various ailments.

Craig Stanford, a biologist at USC, described collectors in China as “major predators on turtles around the world.”

“In a perverse equation, the rarer a creature gets the more valuable it becomes,” he said. “As a result, we see millionaires in China parking their wealth these days in investments such as wine, real estate, art and, unfortunately, turtles including our own garden variety box turtles.”

The Chelonian Center received 38 of the spotted turtles confiscated as evidence in an ongoing investigation. They joined hundreds of other cold-blooded animals at the center, a secret sanctuary of paddocks and aquariums protected by surveillance cameras and electric wire in the foothills of Los Padres National Forest.

The center, which is certified by the American Zoo and Aquarium Assn., is not open to the public or listed in the phone book. The only visitors are turtle biologists from around the world.

Its primary mission is to maintain colonies of threatened and endangered tortoises and freshwater turtles including some of the estimated 350 ploughshare tortoises left on earth; golden coin turtles, which have been selling for up to $50,000 each since a poacher claimed that consuming extracts from the species could cure cancer, and Daphne, a 40-year-old female giant Galapagos tortoise looking for a mate.

“Wild turtle and tortoise populations are crashing around the world,” said James Liu, a veterinarian at the center and an expert on illegal reptile trafficking. “And reasons for that include ultra-rich folks in China who these days collect, farm and show off turtles at events the size of auto trade shows.”

“These turtle extravaganzas,” he said, “feature dancers, 100-foot-tall video screens and long banquet tables serving turtle soup and chopped turtle meat fried, sauteed and smothered in sauce spiced with rare herbs.”


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## Markw84 (Jun 7, 2017)

Interesting that the Behler Center got 38 spotted turtles. They did not have that species before, but I know some of them there were interested in spotted turtles. That's a nice colony for them, hopefully.


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## Link (Jun 7, 2017)

You would think with a population in the billions that Chinese men wouldn't want anything to improve sexual prowess and virility. That said it's beyond crazy but it seems they believe anything they read on the internet  maybe we should tell them that mosquitoes, cockroaches, and fleas are aphrodisiacs. They would exterminate them for everyone.


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## wellington (Jun 7, 2017)

They need to be hit hard, really hard, the people doing the collecting. Put a big fine and jail time on them, go out and find them and it won't we worth what the Chinese will pay.


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## Link (Jun 7, 2017)

Truely sad  I get angry at the people who hit them in automobiles. Couldn't imagine them being eaten for fun


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## William Lee Kohler (Jun 7, 2017)

Thanks Ken. Really REALLY sad to see these innocent creatures destroyed by ignorance and illiteracy. One wouldn't think millionaires are illiterate but apparently they don't know how ignorant these folk medicine cures are. Maybe we should put a good bounty on anybody attempting shipping these innocents to china or the orient.


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## chinaturtle (Jul 4, 2017)

Hello All,

I'm new to this forum and am excited to begin discussing turtle related topics!! I've recently moved back to the US from a post-doc in China. My post-doc was at Peking University in Beijing and focused on the turtle trade, conservation genetics, population demography, and ecology of Chinese turtles. Unfortunately, this article is just the tip of the iceberg of what is happening in China. There is not only smuggling of US turtles, but of Mexican, African, Madagascar, Indonesian, Malaysian, Thailand, Myanmar, etc. The numbers are staggering for some species coming from SE Asia. However, the numbers of US species are low compared to other places, but it is still way too many. Luckily, spotted turtles, box turtles and wood turtles are not being eaten. These animals are going to the pet trade. I've never heard of anyone eating these species. Maybe a handful of people might for some strange reason, but it is not what they are going to China for. These species will become pets, or breeders for farmers. Also, a nice spotted turtle can fetch close to 2K in certain markets, and eastern box turtles can go for about 1,300 up to 2K for a "nice" animal. Florida boxes can go for 2K a piece for adults. They also breed many spotted and EBTs. One farm breeds about 10K spotted turtles a year, but they still want the WC adults. There is good news. We are beginning to set up collaborations within China for long term population monitoring and captive breeding programs. Hopefully within the next several years we will begin some release projects.


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## Cowboy_Ken (Jul 4, 2017)

chinaturtle said:


> Hopefully within the next several years we will begin some release projects.


Welcome home! And welcome to the tortoise forum. I, for one, welcome the insight you are able to provide us with an area outside our normal personal zone in regard to tortoises and turtles.


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## Kapidolo Farms (Jul 5, 2017)

10k = 10,000 spotted turtles? Did I read that right?


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## chinaturtle (Jul 6, 2017)

Thanks Cowboy_Ken. I'm excited to be back in the US. There is such a stark contrast between turtle hobbyist here vs. China. Here we worrying we hatch too many turtles we will not be able to sell them all. There they worry they will never have enough hatchlings to supply demand! 
Yes, I've heard that there is a single farmer who has produced about 10k spotted hatchlings. I've never been to his farm, but spotted turtles are very popular. From the hobbyist I've seen, Id say in total they can produce 10k a year without counting this one farmer. 

The scale at which they can produce animals is huge. There are literally millions of turtle keepers in China. Many in southern China keep decent numbers- over 100 animals or so. The numbers add up quickly!


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## Markw84 (Jul 6, 2017)

chinaturtle said:


> Thanks Cowboy_Ken. I'm excited to be back in the US. There is such a stark contrast between turtle hobbyist here vs. China. Here we worrying we hatch too many turtles we will not be able to sell them all. There they worry they will never have enough hatchlings to supply demand!
> Yes, I've heard that there is a single farmer who has produced about 10k spotted hatchlings. I've never been to his farm, but spotted turtles are very popular. From the hobbyist I've seen, Id say in total they can produce 10k a year without counting this one farmer.
> 
> The scale at which they can produce animals is huge. There are literally millions of turtle keepers in China. Many in southern China keep decent numbers- over 100 animals or so. The numbers add up quickly!


Really appreciate your insights and experience. Please continue to contribute and add your valuable perspective and knowledge! Perhaps you could start a thread of your own and tell us more about your experiences and the chelonians you have kept and/or are looking to work with now?


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## KevinGG (Jul 6, 2017)

Will said:


> 10k = 10,000 spotted turtles? Did I read that right?



70 Spotteds and 100 Easterns that are selling for $1,000 each.


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## Kapidolo Farms (Jul 6, 2017)

chinaturtle said:


> Thanks Cowboy_Ken. I'm excited to be back in the US. There is such a stark contrast between turtle hobbyist here vs. China. Here we worrying we hatch too many turtles we will not be able to sell them all. There they worry they will never have enough hatchlings to supply demand!
> Yes, I've heard that there is a single farmer who has produced about 10k spotted hatchlings. I've never been to his farm, but spotted turtles are very popular. From the hobbyist I've seen, Id say in total they can produce 10k a year without counting this one farmer.
> 
> The scale at which they can produce animals is huge. There are literally millions of turtle keepers in China. Many in southern China keep decent numbers- over 100 animals or so. The numbers add up quickly!




I met a woman who was what in the USA might be called a Farm Extension Adviser just for turtle farms in China. She showed me photos of ponds that could be measured in acres of water, and as many as the typical camera could image in a perspective at a few meters above ground. I've seen a few myself in Vietnam that were pretty big too.

10K spotted turtles though, that is wonderful. It certainly makes the trade from here to there less troublesome in a sense. There are single Sulcata producers here that produce that many (sulcatas), the collective being many times as much, and so even though they are in trouble in Africa, it seems to lesson the feeling of doom for the species.


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## chinaturtle (Jul 10, 2017)

Okay, I will start a thread. Please feel free to ask any questions you have about China. I'll answer to the best of my ability.


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