# Dual Survival - thumbs down



## Az tortoise compound (Jun 18, 2011)

*Dual Survival on Discovery **Graphic topic***

Does anyone else watch this show? It's on the Discovery channel. I sat there, completely stunned when I saw what was breakfast. What did you think?


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## onarock (Jun 18, 2011)

*RE: Dual Survival on Discovery **Graphic topic***

I love that show Mick... Was a bit taken back as a tortoise lover when I saw them eating that tortoise.


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## John (Jun 18, 2011)

*RE: Dual Survival on Discovery **Graphic topic***

I watch this show also but missed this episode, thanks for the heads up I'll be sure and skip it. Although if faced with a survival situation all things are game, In my current situation I don't need to witness that.


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## RichardS (Jun 18, 2011)

I was a casual fan of the show until last night... The episode Hippo Island shows Dave Canterbury finding, killing, baking an 8" leopard tortoise. It was described as an African Spur Thigh. Sucks.


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## RV's mom (Jun 18, 2011)

man has to eat simply for survival. nothing more. to do something like this for freaking hollywood and your 15 minutes of fame turns my stomach. And I won't /don't watch such.
sucks indeed.

teri


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## B K (Jun 18, 2011)

I seen it also I was very disappointed in them and they where only 3 miles from civilization.


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## TortoiseAddict (Jun 18, 2011)

RichardS said:


> I was a casual fan of the show until last night... The episode Hippo Island shows Dave Canterbury finding, killing, baking an 8" leopard tortoise. It was described as an African Spur Thigh. Sucks.



i was watching the episode also.... to let u know i left the room when they killed and ate the tortoise


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## Ross (Jun 18, 2011)

Hi All,

I thought that you might be interested in the text of a letter that I sent to Cody Lundin, Dave Canterbury, and the Discovery Chanel. Kind of a rant, but I feel better having sent it. 

Ross

*****

Mr. Lundin and Mr. Canterbury,

I am writing regarding the episode of your show â€˜Dual Survivalâ€™ entitled â€˜Hippo Islandâ€™. Specifically, I am writing to address the capture, killing and consumption of a Leopard Tortoise (Stigmochelys (geochelone) pardalis babcocki), incorrectly identified by Mr. Canterbury as an â€˜African Spurred Tortoiseâ€™. This species, while not currently listed on the IUCNâ€™s â€˜Red Listâ€™ of endangered species is, none the less, threatened throughout its range by habitat destruction, collection for the Asian and European pet trade (import into the US has been banned), and yes, being eaten by both indigenous and non-indigenous people. Another African tortoise species, the Madagascar Radiated Tortoise, has gone in less than two decades from being â€˜as numerous as the starsâ€™ to critically endangered as a result of being eaten by the Malagasy people. Just because the locals do it does not make it environmentally responsible, and it does not make it a responsible or appropriate thing for you to do. The animal that you killed and ate was likely fifteen years old and had survived literally one in a thousand odds to reach that age, only to be eaten by the two of you to make television. I hope that you are both properly ashamed of yourselves. 

I am particularly disgusted with you, Mr. Lundin. Mr. Canterbury, with his Ted Nugent-esque â€˜bag it, burn it and eat itâ€™ television persona, can almost be forgiven for his incredible lack of sensitivity to issues of environmental concern, but you Mr. Lundin, with your espoused close to the earth lifestyle and love of your â€˜mother desertâ€™, should certainly know better. Do you allow, or even encourage, your survival students to eat the Desert Tortoises and other endangered species that inhabit your usual stomping grounds in Arizona? You present yourself as an almost shaman-like teacher of harmony with the natural world, but on â€˜Hippo Islandâ€™ both you and Mr. Canterbury utterly failed to even mention that killing and eating a slow-to-mature, threatened species should be an act of last resort. Instead, you made this act seem completely devoid of environmental or moral significance.

Please understand that I am not an â€˜eco-fanaticâ€™ of some sort. I eat meat, own firearms and have killed and eaten animals, and understand that true survival situations sometimes require extreme measures. I am also not naÃ¯ve as to the requirement to â€˜push the envelopeâ€™ when producing television (hence Mr. Canterburyâ€™s recent self-mutilation and wound cauterization with black power), but killing and eating a CITIES Appendix II species, with a twenty-plus year maturation to reproductive age/size, for the sake of a television show, is irresponsible and reprehensible.

I am reminded of the actions of one of your predecessors in survival-related television, Les Stroud of â€˜Survivormanâ€™. In the course of filming his show, Les would sometimes come across an animal, sometimes an environmentally sensitive species, sometimes not, and say, â€œif this were a real survival situation, Iâ€™d have to eat this animal, but it isnâ€™t, so Iâ€™m letting it goâ€™. The two of you might learn something from Mr. Stroud. 

However dramatic the scenarios presented on your show may be, they are not true â€˜survival situationsâ€™. Could you not have asked one of the camera crew for a bite of his/her sandwich, and let a rare animal carry on with its long life and reproductive potential? Again, I hope that both of you are embarrassed and ashamed of what youâ€™ve become in the interest of entertainment. Needless to say, I will no longer be counted amongst the viewers of your ridiculous show.


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## October (Jun 18, 2011)

Ross said:


> Hi All,
> 
> I thought that you might be interested in the text of a letter that I sent to Cody Lundin, Dave Canterbury, and the Discovery Chanel. Kind of a rant, but I feel better having sent it.



*applause*


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## dmmj (Jun 18, 2011)

Good letter ross, nicely stated, you know if it was a survival situation, I don't think many people would mind, but as stated he is not in a true life or death situation, he has camera crews and probably some type of craft service available, since it was for entertainment purposes I find it reprehensible myself, and I think I will send them my thoughts on it also. If enough people do it, maybe they will say something.


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## Tortoise-Luke (Jun 18, 2011)

i thought it was awfull and not that it would've made any difference to me if they were, but the thing is they were'nt even hungry. At least fake hunger, it just looked liked they enjoyed it.


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## Maggie Cummings (Jun 18, 2011)

Great letter Ross..


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## Yvonne G (Jun 18, 2011)

Hi Ross:

Good Job!!!


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## Kristina (Jun 18, 2011)

The letter is fantastic.

I am, once again, glad that I don't watch TV. I can't stand to see things like this, or even new reports of children, animals, and people in general being abused. I would have been more than sick.


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## jensgotfaith (Jun 18, 2011)

Great letter Ross. I've never heard of the show, but you can rest assured I won't be watching it. I'm sure I would have gotten sick had I seen the beginnings of that.


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## dmarcus (Jun 18, 2011)

Great letter, I have heard of the show but never watched it, and now I won't even think about watching it...


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## Bubba30 (Jun 18, 2011)

I never seen that show, And glad I didn't. I understand if it really is for survival purposes, but in this case it isn't. It's for peoples entertainment. Which is totally wrong. 

XOXO BUBBA AND CARLA


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## October (Jun 18, 2011)

We don't have cable, just Netflix. I saw one episode of these guys at my InLaws. At was the one Ross mentioned. The one guy decided that the realistic situation was falling down a hill and gashing your arm. Well, he didn't actually fall down the hill so he intentionally slashed himself open with a knife and then had his buddy try to seal it up by pouring gun powder in the wound and then setting it on fire. It didn't work the first time, so they had to do it twice. The problem, like with showing how to eat a tortoise, is that the information is so very dead wrong. I can only imagine how many idiots have ended up in the hospital with severe infection of trivial wounds. 

My husband and I watched it in disbelief, certain it was a spoof of Survivorman or some such. Nope. They were dead serious. I thought is was bad then, but I certainly will not ever be watching it again, now.


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## Torty Mom (Jun 18, 2011)

Woo hooo Ross AWESOME letter!!!


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## exoticsdr (Jun 18, 2011)

I applaud you, Ross.


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## terryo (Jun 18, 2011)

Wonderful letter Ross.


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## jensgotfaith (Jun 18, 2011)

October said:


> We don't have cable, just Netflix. I saw one episode of these guys at my InLaws. At was the one Ross mentioned. The one guy decided that the realistic situation was falling down a hill and gashing your arm. Well, he didn't actually fall down the hill so he intentionally slashed himself open with a knife and then had his buddy try to seal it up by pouring gun powder in the wound and then setting it on fire. It didn't work the first time, so they had to do it twice. The problem, like with showing how to eat a tortoise, is that the information is so very dead wrong. I can only imagine how many idiots have ended up in the hospital with severe infection of trivial wounds.
> 
> My husband and I watched it in disbelief, certain it was a spoof of Survivorman or some such. Nope. They were dead serious. I thought is was bad then, but I certainly will not ever be watching it again, now.



That sounds like that show from MTV- Jack____. I can't watch that one either.


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## Mary Ellen (Jun 18, 2011)

Ross said:


> Hi All,
> 
> I thought that you might be interested in the text of a letter that I sent to Cody Lundin, Dave Canterbury, and the Discovery Chanel. Kind of a rant, but I feel better having sent it.
> 
> ...


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## Zouave (Jun 18, 2011)

I love survival shows (Les Stroud is the man, Survivorman was cool but Beyond Survival was great!) and i've seen quite a few episodes of Dual Survival and i gotta say i was surprised that Lundin didn't put up any fuss. He certainly was very reserved the whole episode and I suspect he was feeling the elements more than they let on (not defending just an observation) he's usually very vocal about these types of situations. 

It was very unnecessary.


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## Terry Allan Hall (Jun 19, 2011)

Ross said:


> Hi All,
> 
> I thought that you might be interested in the text of a letter that I sent to Cody Lundin, Dave Canterbury, and the Discovery Chanel. Kind of a rant, but I feel better having sent it.
> 
> ...



Thumbs up!


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## ssydney (Jun 19, 2011)

October said:


> Ross said:
> 
> 
> > Hi All,
> ...



Yes, i watched that, and fantastic letter. *and the crowd goes wild* You, are a true inspiration to me


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## Ross (Jun 20, 2011)

Hi All,

Thanks to all of you for your words of support. Below is Cody Lundinâ€™s reply to my letter. Iâ€™m pleased that he takes responsibility for what happened, but a little disappointed that he seems to have missed the point that, while eating that particular tortoise was bad, eating any tortoise would have been just as bad (or worse). Ah well, at least he wrote back and didnâ€™t just write me off as a â€˜bunny huggerâ€™, as Mr. Canterbury might be tempted to do.

If anyone else is interested in registering their protest with Discovery, I think the best strategy is to send an actual letter (remember those? ) to:

David Zaslav, 
President and CEO, Discovery Communications
8516 Georgia Avenue
Silver Springs MD 20910

I think that if Mr. Zaslav were aware of this situation, he would be sick, and he's in the best position to make genuine changes to Discovery's policies and practices. Thanks, 

Ross

**********************

â€œRoss, I'm sorry that this happened. I had no idea what kind of tortoise it was, and we all trusted Daveâ€™s ID of the animal. No mention was made from anyone that is was and endangered species, which of course makes me sick. I agree with you, we ****** up. When we visit an area that I am not familiar with, I need to trust local knowledge on the ground. In this case, it failed. I am sorry. 
Codyâ€


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## Terry Allan Hall (Jun 20, 2011)

Ross said:


> Hi All,
> 
> Thanks to all of you for your words of support. Below is Cody Lundinâ€™s reply to my letter. Iâ€™m pleased that he takes responsibility for what happened, but a little disappointed that he seems to have missed the point that, while eating that particular tortoise was bad, eating any tortoise would have been just as bad (or worse). Ah well, at least he wrote back and didnâ€™t just write me off as a â€˜bunny huggerâ€™, as Mr. Canterbury might be tempted to do.
> 
> ...



Nice of him to reply...

My thinking is (and I recognize that lots of folks will disagree, as is their right) that had it been a sulcata, it wouldn't quite as big a deal, as suicatas are far from rare (ask anyone who recues tortoises)...at the same time, the point made that the "starving" survior-actors could've gotten a sandwich from one of the camera crew is also valid, but if they really were starving, eating a sulcata would upset me quite a bit less...


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## Angi (Jun 20, 2011)

I have not heard of that show and now if it comes on will not watch it.
@ Ross, Great letter!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Ross (Jun 20, 2011)

"My thinking is (and I recognize that lots of folks will disagree, as is their right) that had it been a sulcata, it wouldn't quite as big a deal, as suicatas are far from rare (ask anyone who recues tortoises)...at the same time, the point made that the "starving" survior-actors could've gotten a sandwich from one of the camera crew is also valid, but if they really were starving, eating a sulcata would upset me quite a bit less..."

I understand where youâ€™re coming from but ironically, Sulcattas are, I believe, even more endangered in their home range than are Leopards. It makes you wish we could start shipping the US-based overabundance of them back to their homeland. It could have been worse â€“ Mr. Lundin and Mr. Canterbury could have enjoyed a breakfast of Speckled padloper â€˜slidersâ€™ instead.


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## wrmitchell22 (Jun 20, 2011)

Great Letter Ross! I am so proud to associated with this forum


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## Terry Allan Hall (Jun 20, 2011)

Ross said:


> "My thinking is (and I recognize that lots of folks will disagree, as is their right) that had it been a sulcata, it wouldn't quite as big a deal, as suicatas are far from rare (ask anyone who recues tortoises)...at the same time, the point made that the "starving" survior-actors could've gotten a sandwich from one of the camera crew is also valid, but if they really were starving, eating a sulcata would upset me quite a bit less..."
> 
> I understand where youâ€™re coming from but ironically, Sulcattas are, I believe, even more endangered in their home range than are Leopards. It makes you wish we could start shipping the US-based overabundance of them back to their homeland. It could have been worse â€“ Mr. Lundin and Mr. Canterbury could have enjoyed a breakfast of Speckled padloper â€˜slidersâ€™ instead.



I had no idea sulcatas were rare in the wild...so, yeah, it would be a good idea for _healthy_ ones to get sent back to Africa, then.


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## RichardS (Jun 21, 2011)

Still, nice to get a response. Cody seems a little more genuine than I gave him credit for. Hopefully he'll think twice about what he does and/or what he teaches. One tortoise sacrificed could go a long away in this case. Same can't be said in Madagascar.


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## Torty Mom (Jun 24, 2011)

Well, that episode is airing right now on Discovery channel! UGH!!! My hubby even commented on what a beautiful tortie it was!


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