# Babyfood soaks?



## Katherine (Dec 12, 2011)

Prior to (recently) joining this forum I had never heard of doing a baby food soak for a tortoise who was displaying a poor appetite or seeming under the weather. I am not 100% sure I am understanding it correctly but it seems to me from what I've read on here that the babyfood soak is intended to transfer nutrients to a sluggish tortoise. 

If this is what you are using a babyfood soak for then you may want to consider OxBow Critcal Care. I am not usually a brand name pusher but I don't know of any other similar products. Oxbow makes a "critical care formula" which can be purchased in a fine powder or a fine flake form and is a nutrient rich blend made specifically for herbivores in times of ailment. You can mix with water for soaking/tube feeding/etc and I have had great success using this while rehabbing injured tortoises that were not eating for one reason or another. The main ingredient is Timothy Hay and it was formulated with great consideration of an herbivores intestinal flora which is greatly different from our own or that of a human baby. 

Just wanted to share because maybe not everyone had heard of this or knows it is an option... I am a big fan and have had a lot of success with it so thought I would spread the love.


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## Yvonne G (Dec 12, 2011)

I use Critical Care when tube feeding, but the baby food soaks are a more non-invasive method of encouraging a tortoise to feel better. The baby food soaks don't take the place of feeding the tortoise. He still has to eat. But the soaks help him feel better so he feels more like eating.


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## Katherine (Dec 12, 2011)

emysemys said:


> I use Critical Care when tube feeding, but the baby food soaks are a more non-invasive method of encouraging a tortoise to feel better. The baby food soaks don't take the place of feeding the tortoise. He still has to eat. But the soaks help him feel better so he feels more like eating.



I understand a soak as a potentially therapeutic treatment, but I guess I am still struggling to understand the function of babyfood? Is the idea behind adding it that the tortoise may ingest the water, and thus the babyfood in it, or are you hoping for cloacal uptake of actual nutrients?


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## Yvonne G (Dec 12, 2011)

You can use either the high vitamin A baby food types or liquid bird vitamins. I was told many years ago that the tortoises will absorb some of the nutrients through the thin skin on their throat and around the cloaca. I may have been misled, as I'm not a scientist. But I DO know that the soaks work. I've been rescuing turtles and tortoises for over 35 years, and I've encouraged many, many sick tortoises to feel better using this method.


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## Katherine (Dec 12, 2011)

emysemys said:


> You can use either the high vitamin A baby food types or liquid bird vitamins. I was told many years ago that the tortoises will absorb some of the nutrients through the thin skin on their throat and around the cloaca. I may have been misled, as I'm not a scientist. But I DO know that the soaks work. I've been rescuing turtles and tortoises for over 35 years, and I've encouraged many, many sick tortoises to feel better using this method.



Sorry if seems like I'm prying. I'm just infinitely interested in these often misunderstood animals and love hearing what has/has not worked for other people, after all own experiences or the shared experiences of others are the only to learn! I have spent many a late night reading up on cloaca exchanges due to the "to soak or not to soak" conundrum, I soak all my hatchling torts (sick or not) so I try to stay on top of exactly what this is doing to or for them; but it seems like blurry territory! 

It appears to me in my non veterinary opinion (stress opinion!!) that the cloaca itself is well understood (prob bc it's found in many animals?) but I have yet to find any convincing studies yielding proof that anything besides water, urea, ammonia and small ions (electrolytes) are being exchanged down there. I have also not found and convincing studies yielding concrete proof that nutrients are NOT being exchanged down there and can only hope as there is a higher demand for information we will eventually have all the answers... A girl can dream right?

In my past experience I have found that soaking an ill tortoise can evacuate its excretion bladders; and its seems like that might stimulate its appetite? Just speculation though I truly have no idea if things are as they appear! I agree though that soaking seems to help, just trying to understand why. The quest for answers to every tortoise question is exhausting sometimes, but always enthralling. You have been doing this A LOT longer than I have and I'm curious to know if you find the sick tortoises usually pass excrement during the soaks? Thanks for sharing your experience!


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## Baoh (Dec 13, 2011)

I have used babyfood-diluted-with-water soaks to positive effect when dealing with occasional problem hatchlings and unfit-upon-arrival rescues. I am working on seeing if using round-tip gel-loading pipette tips and a syringe can provide a more nutritionally effective (concentrated) means of gentle force-feeding, though.

From the soaks, I have noticed less irritated eyes, better weight maintenance of smaller-mass animals who are having feeding issues, and more activity post-soak. 

As for cloacal drinking, I believe I have seen research indicating tortoises are not typically shown doing such, but I have a personal experience that tells me that *maybe* some do. One of my Aldabras sometimes does not care to drink during "his" regular water soaks. I have not taken my eyes off of him during some of these soaks to make sure he was not simply sneaking his sips in. He will occasionally tilt his body so his rump is down and his fore-body is more elevated. Even with defecation taking place, he ends up weighing ten grams greater or even more post-soak than his pre-soak weight check. If he becomes agitated when I removed him post-soak and dry him off, he will release a large volume of fluid/urine and be at or around his pre-soak weight again, so I take measures to keep him as calm as possible as I transfer him back to his enclosure. Since he is not drinking during such example episodes and there is the significant weight increase measured (I used Mettler Toledo laboratory balances, by the way, which are calibrated often), it could be indicative of fluid uptake via non-oral/nasal means. Their skin is obviously not this permeable, nor would I expect it to be, so I rule that out (the rate of transfer would have to be record-breaking fast, anyway). Anyway, this is something I have noticed. I am not saying it is cloacal drinking, but I am not saying it definitely is not cloacal drinking, either.


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## Madkins007 (Dec 13, 2011)

I have found studies both for and against cloacal uptake of liquids. It may vary by species, but it does happen in at least some controlled studies.

Whether or not they take vitamins that way as well is 'iffier', but even without absorbing them, there seem to be other benefits, even if it is only that they get some nutritional support when they drink.


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## Tom (Dec 13, 2011)

I too have noticed the benefits of not only babyfood soaks, but also regular soaks.


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## ascott (Dec 13, 2011)

I am a firm promoter of soaking....while I have never had a direct need to personally do the baby food soaks, I do know that it makes perfect sense..

I helped a CDT that was packed solid with sand....impacted solid...so much that he felt light as a pillow...I took over his care from prior caretaker and began to soak him multiple times every day for 5 to 6 weeks....at the beginning he never drank anything, just laid in there near lifeless (and he was near lifeless)....after a week he began crapping out solid perfectly round sand balls...at first they would shatter as sand does...then as the soaks continued they began to keep form (albeit still sand balls they were now getting moisture) and after a couple of weeks he suddenly dropped his entire head into the water and remained there for 15 solid minutes...i even touched him on the side of the head to make sure he had not actually just dropped dead and slumped into the water....he kinda lifted his head and looked at me with his one good eye and back into the water his head went....

Nothing anyone ever says to me will convince me otherwise of the benefits of soaking....I know that if he had not soaked and soaked and took in the water (even before drinking it) through his body he would not have had the strength to be interested in drinking also....

I am now the caregiver for this tortoise, he is my old man Humphry. I love him to pieces...he is my best soaker---hell, he would fall asleep for hours if I let him...and on a nice hot summer day he will just crawl up into his water dish, spread out and lay his beautiful chin on the rim of his spa and fall asleep for hours....

So...soak away all, add baby food, add pretty smelling flowers, add a buddy...whatever it takes to keep your tort happy, plump and content...oh yeah, IMHO that is.....


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## Katherine (Dec 13, 2011)

Hahahaha ascott that was a beautiful prose-y ode to soakage! Made me want to add candles and ambiance lighting and soft piano music to my evening hatchling soak. Happy to hear you were able to help the impacted tortoise and that he is doing well to date : )

Thanks all for sharing your input and experience!


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