# Plastron healing after surgery?



## Jodie (Jul 2, 2016)

My 20 pound female leopard had surgery to remove broken eggs 10/2014. She has had a fiberglass patch for almost 2 years. One edge has been loose for a few months. We cut it off this morning to prevent her from catching it on weeds and grass.
It does not appear healed underneath. After my initial panic, I am thinking maybe the bone has healed, and this is the keratin (spelling? right word?) covering the bone that would be expected to die as new growth pushes it off?
Anyone have any experience with this kind of injury, and recovery? 
I have an email in to the vet. Would appreciate experienced opinions.

I have not lifted on it at aall, but it is not attached at all along the line. It pushes in.


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## Yvonne G (Jul 2, 2016)

I don't have experience with shells having been cut for surgery. Best wait to see what the vet says. He may want to see the tortoise.


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## MPRC (Jul 2, 2016)

I think I'd be headed back to the vet as well. Maybe they can do imaging to see what it looks like under the keratin. I think your theory about healing underneath may be spot on.


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## Speedy-1 (Jul 2, 2016)

*Sorry Jodie , I have no experience with that sort of injury. I would probably get with the Vet also !*


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## Jodie (Jul 2, 2016)

As it is 4th of July weekend, the response from the vet is not going to be quick. I like to have opinions, so I am better able to evaluate my vet's answer. Anyone with experience? Anyone know anyone to tag that may have experience?


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## Yvonne G (Jul 2, 2016)

@exoticsdr @Ferretinmyshoes @deadheadvet


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## deadheadvet (Jul 2, 2016)

Coming up on 2 years. Should have good healing by now. The image shows the cut lines to have not filled in. Best to get an xray and see if there is definite healing, otherwise, the rest of the fiberglass needs to come off, freshen the edges and apply new piece of acrylic over the seams.


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## mark1 (Jul 2, 2016)

i'd ask the vet that did the surgery too , but i've seen a few turtles chewed up by dogs , and it's taken years for the keratin to cover it again , so maybe the bone is healed underneath ......


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## Jodie (Jul 2, 2016)

Thanks guys. I emailed my local vet, not really a tortoise vet, and she is conferring with the specialist that did the surgery.


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## Pawciorc (Jul 2, 2016)

Seems strange that after 2 years the bone still has not accreted. Definitely something is wrong and vet consultation and xray is a must.


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## Jodie (Jul 3, 2016)

Vet is not an option until Tue. Local vet responded that she forwarded my email to the operating specialist at WA State University. Will update when I get a response.


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## Yvonne G (Jul 3, 2016)

Until you're able to get back to the vet for them to see it first hand, I'd protect the area somehow.


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## Pearly (Jul 3, 2016)

Is there type of occlusive dressing that you could put over it just to keep it clean till vet visit? Some type of adhesive patch to cover the open area?


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## Jodie (Jul 3, 2016)

The thing is, the patch has been loose for months. Unknown to me it has been getting dirty all along. I was going to cover it. Certainly don't want anything stuck to it since vet will have to remove, but was going to wrap something around her. My husband pointed out that holding germs in can be worse than breathing. It needs to be cleaned out, if it isn't sealed up under that patch right? I have her in a clean environment. Any suggestions on how to protect it @Yvonne G?


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## Jodie (Jul 3, 2016)

deadheadvet said:


> Coming up on 2 years. Should have good healing by now. The image shows the cut lines to have not filled in. Best to get an xray and see if there is definite healing, otherwise, the rest of the fiberglass needs to come off, freshen the edges and apply new piece of acrylic over the seams.


Thanks for the response. My vet is not responding to me. Should I cover the area until I can get her to the vet? Any suggestions on how to do so? I really appreciate your help.


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## Yvonne G (Jul 3, 2016)

Now that you ask the question, I'm wondering if covering it would seal in dirt and maybe germs. Maybe just leave it alone until you can get to the vet.


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## deadheadvet (Jul 3, 2016)

Keep the tortoise dry. Shredded newspaper and keep the area clean with just mild soap and water. Tortoises get everything dirty so just keep it clean and wait until the vet can have a look.


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## Jodie (Jul 3, 2016)

Thanks all. Not sure why things like this always occur at the beginning of a long weekend. Had I had any worry about her condition, I would have choose to do this some other time. So I guess it is my bad timing. Sure thankful TFO isn't closed for the 4th.
Happy 4th of July everyone!


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## Pearly (Jul 5, 2016)

Any news yet?


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## Jodie (Jul 5, 2016)

Still waiting for vet to bless me with her time! Getting frustrated, can you tell?


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## Speedy-1 (Jul 5, 2016)

*Sorry to hear this Jodie ! I know how frustrating it can be ! *


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## Jodie (Jul 5, 2016)

Finally got a reply. Very unsatisfactory. Theory is, may be healed underneath, not sure. 
I knew that much. 
Taking her in tomorrow. Hopefully After forking over $100 the vet will be smarter. Local vet can't re-apply the fiberglass, so probably have to drive to Pullman. Hoping for better options.


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## MPRC (Jul 5, 2016)

Jodie, who do you use in Spokane?


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## Jodie (Jul 5, 2016)

LaDukePhoto said:


> Jodie, who do you use in Spokane?


Cathy Ratcliff at Mt. Spokane Vet Hospital.


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## MPRC (Jul 5, 2016)

I'm not a huge fan of Dr. Ponti in Otis Orchards but he may be able to do the fiberglass with out a trip to WSU.


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## Jodie (Jul 6, 2016)

LaDukePhoto said:


> I'm not a huge fan of Dr. Ponti in Otis Orchards but he may be able to do the fiberglass with out a trip to WSU.


Thank you


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## Gillian M (Jul 6, 2016)

Good luck!


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## MPRC (Jul 6, 2016)

I've been racking my brain trying to think of other alternatives, the only other place that comes to mind is the surgical specialists that work out of the Pet Emergency Clinic during the daytime hours. It may be cheaper to go to Pulllman though. You pay a premium for their services.


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## Pearly (Jul 6, 2016)

Oh wow! 2 years??? I know human bone healing process takes at least 6-9 months for scar tissue to start sealing the injury. Not sure how it works with keratin, but if timelines are supposed to be similar I'd be curious about what keeps it from getting sealed up. Wonder if there is something in the deep bottom layers that just keeps it from closing up (i.e.: gap too big to make the edges approximated enough to start fusing, or... foreign body of some sort?) Imaging would be nice, but I just hate it that you are having to deal with the expense now. Recently I went through some vet care expenses too. It's ridiculous how much everything cost! All the prices keep going up, but pay checks stay this same... Pooooo!!!!


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## BrianWI (Jul 6, 2016)

I don't like the looks of the cut. Seems wide, plus aren't they supposed to cut the shell at an angle, like the top of a jack-o-lantern?


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## Yvonne G (Jul 6, 2016)

BrianWI said:


> I don't like the looks of the cut. Seems wide, plus aren't they supposed to cut the shell at an angle, like the top of a jack-o-lantern?



That is normally how it is done, Brian...the jack-o-lantern reference, I mean.


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## Pearly (Jul 6, 2016)

Well, any news???


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## BrianWI (Jul 6, 2016)

Yvonne G said:


> That is normally how it is done, Brian...the jack-o-lantern reference, I mean.



I thought it didn't look right. Not sure how you'd bridge a gap for sure.


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## Jodie (Jul 6, 2016)

So the bone is solid underneath this flap on top. She is fine.


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## Pawciorc (Jul 6, 2016)

Jodie, in your first post you stated that the part of shell is not attached and pushes in. So how can the bone be solid now?


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## Jodie (Jul 7, 2016)

It is flexible. The flap is not attached to the bone underneath. Pushes in, is not exactly accurate. It flexes out. The vet used an instrument slid under the flap to feel the bone underneath. She also pulled the flap out and could see healthy bone underneath.


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## Pawciorc (Jul 7, 2016)

So it means that the removed for surgery and attached with fiberglass patch part of plastron is not connected with the shell, and underneath, your tort has developed a new bone?


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## Jodie (Jul 7, 2016)

No. I am not a vet, so forgive my un-technical understanding. The bone has a keratin (s) covering. This is the flap. When this shell is injured, the new bone grows underneath, and pushes it off. I have seen this are significantly smaller injuries. I am assuming that cutting the shell has caused the entire outer layer to die. The healing is taking place underneath. Hopefully someone with better knowledge will come along to explain this better.


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