# Could someone help me identify what species I have?



## JoeyG (Apr 22, 2017)

I've had three tortoises for a pretty long time now, and I've mostly just assumed they were desert tortoises up until recently. Got curious, did some light research, and figured out there are a number of different species of gopher tortoises. Since I'm in southern California, I think it's safe to assume they aren't the Florida type (gopherus polyphemus), and I'm pretty sure they aren't the Mexican types either (gopherus flavomarginatus) & (gopherus evgoodei). But after eliminating those three, I'm still left with the Mojave desert tortoise (gopherus agassizii), the Sonoran desert tortoise (gopherus morafkai), and the Texas desert tortoise (gopherus berlandieri). This is where I need a bit of help. I'm leaning towards the Sonoran desert tortoise (gopherus marafkai), but the three species I'm left with look too similar for me to be sure. Any help would be greatly appreciated 

As for the pictures, the first five are of my oldest tortoise, Turbo, and she's around 18 years old. In the interest of saving space though, I'm only including the top view shots of the two younger ones since they look almost identical to Turbo. They're both around 14 years old. One is a male, Tip-Tup, and the other is a female, Tooter. I'll also add some more/different pictures if anyone wants me to.


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## Taylor T. (Apr 22, 2017)

Hmm, looking at the gulars and eye placement on the different species makes me think he a Texas desert tortoise. On the other hand, the nuchal scute and head shape leads me strongly to him being a Mojave desert tortoise.

My final guess would be Mojave, but I'm by no means an expert on this kind of thing.


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## bryson white (Apr 23, 2017)

I am no expert but, I am 99.9 percent sure it a Mojave.


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## BeeBee*BeeLeaves (Apr 23, 2017)

I am always fascinated by the shell colors. If Mojave, wonder what locales have the darker shell colors within their region. Hope an expert can let us all know what you have. They're beauties, all three of your lil gopherus.


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## JoeyG (Apr 24, 2017)

BeeBee*BeeLeaves said:


> I am always fascinated by the shell colors. If Mojave, wonder what locales have the darker shell colors within their region. Hope an expert can let us all know what you have. They're beauties, all three of your lil gopherus.



Thank you


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## Yvonne G (Apr 24, 2017)

Texas tortoises have a deep 'V' in the shell right above the head (no nuchal scute). It's safe to assume your tortoises are Gopherus agassizii. Plus, they don't get as big as your tortoises are.


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## Markw84 (Apr 24, 2017)

Yvonne G said:


> Texas tortoises have a deep 'V' in the shell right above the head (no nuchal scute). It's safe to assume your tortoises are Gopherus agassizii. Plus, they don't get as big as your tortoises are.


I agree that these are agassizii. All the berlandieri I have seen are indeed much smaller and tend to have an overall "wedge" shape where the carapace at the hind limbs is wider than the carapace at the forelimbs. They tend to be darker overall as well. Most berlandieri also will have a double, but small axillary as opposed to the single axillary of agassizi. However, they do indeed have a nuchal scute. All Gopherus have nuchal scutes.


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## Yvonne G (Apr 24, 2017)

I'll take pictures of my berlandieri later when the sun comes out. They have no nuchal scute.


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## Yvonne G (Apr 24, 2017)

So as to not derail Joey's thread, I made a new one:

http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/differences-between-agassizii-and-berlandieri.154261/


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## JoeyG (Apr 24, 2017)

Yvonne G said:


> Texas tortoises have a deep 'V' in the shell right above the head (no nuchal scute). It's safe to assume your tortoises are Gopherus agassizii. Plus, they don't get as big as your tortoises are.



So they wouldn't be Gopherus Morafkai? I'm still a bit confused as to what the difference is between agassizii and morafkai.


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## Markw84 (Apr 24, 2017)

JoeyG said:


> So they wouldn't be Gopherus Morafkai? I'm still a bit confused as to what the difference is between agassizii and morafkai.


Without genetic testing and knowing the locale they or their lineage came from, it would be almost impossible to tell. The new morafkai in 'classic' definition is a much flatter tortoise with a pronounced flat portion of the carapace from ventral 2-4. Yours do not exhibit that look at all.


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## BeeBee*BeeLeaves (Apr 24, 2017)

Markw84 said:


> Without genetic testing and knowing the locale they or their lineage came from, it would be almost impossible to tell. The new morafkai in 'classic' definition is a much flatter tortoise with a pronounced flat portion of the carapace from ventral 2-4. Yours do not exhibit that look at all.



Interesting. 

I seem to recall reading that Sonoran tortoises are less out in the public's hands because their areas are more secluded. Do you concur with that?

Also, remember someone having a darker desert tortoise and not as flat as a pancake tortoise but it reminded me of one. The shell was a mahogany color. It was about 10 years old. Could that have possibly been one I now wonder?

Our Mojave tortoises can look so different, one to the next. I've seen one with a dark peachy skin tone.


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## JoeyG (Apr 25, 2017)

BeeBee*BeeLeaves said:


> Interesting.
> 
> I seem to recall reading that Sonoran tortoises are less out in the public's hands because their areas are more secluded. Do you concur with that?
> 
> ...



That's what's throwin me off. Pictures of the Mojave desert tortoises can look so much different from each other.


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