# Redfoot's arms and neck look puffy.



## jockma (Dec 4, 2015)

Sorry if I'm not entirely coherent. I'm panicking and trying to stay calm.

My redfoot tortoise is a rescue, had a lot of health problems in the beginning but has been doing well for a while now.

Today (in the past hour) I took him out for a soak and noticed his neck/leg area was puffy. He hadn't been moving around much today so I was getting worried, but he's often pretty sedentary after a big meal so I put it in the back of my mind.

The puffiness is more noticeable on one side but he appears to be puffy on both sides. His neck itself is slightly distended (could be my imagination) but his breathing is fine. He had MANY RIs when I first got him and he's not displaying the same symptoms, but I'm not ruling it out.

Once I took him out his personality returned to normal, he's zipping around and racing to the kitchen for food although I'm too afraid to give him any. I put him in his temp enclosure in case whatever's causing this is an issue with his enclosure. The puffiness went down a bit after the soaks (I gave him 3) but it's still there. His last poop was about 2-3 days ago. It's definitely not obesity unless he can gain a lot of weight overnight, because he looked completely fine yesterday.

One thing that could be causing this is I fed him papaya yesterday. He loves papaya but I noticed the last time I fed him papaya he was very lethargic the day after as well. I didn't check him because he tends to not move around much after eating big meals, I didn't think anything was amiss. Now I'm concerned that he may be allergic to papaya or something and this is what happens...

I'm taking him to the vet tomorrow. It's too late to schedule an appointment now and it'll be the weekend, but there's an emergency vet relatively nearby that treats tortoises so I'll take him there first thing in the morning. I'm worried sick.

I'm sorry for the photos not being the best. He wouldn't stop moving around and it was difficult to see the puffiness without holding him up. The puffiness only seems to be affecting his arms, not his legs.


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## Kori5 (Dec 5, 2015)

I'm not an expert but does his skin usually have a pink hue? It does look slightly puffy. I would take him to the vet.


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## Lyn W (Dec 5, 2015)

Hope all is OK and easily remedied. Have you done a search to see if there are any other posts about this problem?


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## dmmj (Dec 5, 2015)

the puffiness Or edema is usually kidney related. they're going to have to draw blood more than likely and run some tests it could simply be an infection in the kidneys easily treatable won't know more until they get the results back


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## jockma (Dec 5, 2015)

@Kori5 Yes, it's always been like that on his fleshier bits.

@Lyn W I did, but all of the cases I found were very different and didn't match mine...so I wasn't sure what to make of it.

It's 3:14 in the morning now and he's doing fine. I don't want to bother him so I can't check for the puffiness but he's sleeping normally, he's a finicky sleeper and he got up and walked to a different location and fell back asleep so I think all is well for now. Still terribly worried, though.

EDIT: @dmmj I had read that, it's worrying me to death. It all just happened so suddenly. His behavior hasn't changed which comforts me and scares me at the same time, I'm hoping this isn't a long-term illness he's had that hasn't been caught until now.


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## Kori5 (Dec 5, 2015)

Don't panic and worry so much until you get a vet visit which should be as soon as possible. I would do a complete blood work and maybe an xray to see the kidneys and liver.


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## Kori5 (Dec 5, 2015)

Breathe, feed him when he wakes up and give him a soak. If it has to do something with kidneys, soaking will help.


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## jockma (Dec 5, 2015)

It's 9 AM now. I'm taking him to the vet today. I decided to take him to the vet that I lost my pet of almost 20 years in 2013 because it's the closest one so I'm struggling to stay composed.

The edema is still there. I'm soaking him right now. He's not lethargic but not pooping either. Can't tell if he's peeing. Still hungry it seems.

EDIT: During the soak the edema went down a bit again. It's very dry right now where I live so I'm wondering if he's retaining water because he's dehydrated. Humidity in his enclosure is 70-95 but I try to keep him outside for as long as I possibly can (whenever it's not too cold) to improve his quality of life so maybe the lack of humidity outside plays a part in this.


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## Anyfoot (Dec 5, 2015)

jockma said:


> It's 9 AM now. I'm taking him to the vet today. I decided to take him to the vet that I lost my pet of almost 20 years in 2013 because it's the closest one so I'm struggling to stay composed.
> 
> The edema is still there. I'm soaking him right now. He's not lethargic but not pooping either. Can't tell if he's peeing. Still hungry it seems.
> 
> EDIT: During the soak the edema went down a bit again. It's very dry right now where I live so I'm wondering if he's retaining water because he's dehydrated. Humidity in his enclosure is 70-95 but I try to keep him outside for as long as I possibly can (whenever it's not too cold) to improve his quality of life so maybe the lack of humidity outside plays a part in this.


 Can you show some more photos please. 
Also how sure are you that he is male.


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## jockma (Dec 5, 2015)

Pretty sure...either he is or he prolapsed on me and I mistook it for a penis.


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## Anyfoot (Dec 5, 2015)

jockma said:


> Pretty sure...either he is or he prolapsed on me and I mistook it for a penis.


How big is this tortoise?


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## jockma (Dec 5, 2015)

Anyfoot said:


> How big is this tortoise?


7 1/2"


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## jockma (Dec 5, 2015)

Here's a better picture of his tail.


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## Anyfoot (Dec 5, 2015)

jockma said:


> 7 1/2"


 Is the puffyness permanent? Does it look and sound like your Tortoise is holding his breath for a while then breathing. Like breathing in,holding it then breathing out. Is it only swollen when holding breath? If he's constipated and pushing it causes this area to swell. What consistency is the poop?


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## Anyfoot (Dec 5, 2015)

jockma said:


> Here's a better picture of his tail.


 Photo if the entire plastron for scale would be better.


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## jockma (Dec 5, 2015)

Sorry! Here's one.


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## jockma (Dec 5, 2015)

Anyfoot said:


> Is the puffyness permanent? Does it look and sound like your Tortoise is holding his breath for a while then breathing. Like breathing in,holding it then breathing out. Is it only swollen when holding breath? If he's constipated and pushing it causes this area to swell. What consistency is the poop?


No, he's breathing normally. I can only see the puffiness when I'm holding him up, so I don't know if it's permanent. He can fit entirely inside his shell, for what it's worth. His last poop was normal, maybe a little dry but I didn't catch it while it was fresh so I wouldn't know. He's gotten in the habit of pooping in his enclosure instead of during soaks.


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## Anyfoot (Dec 5, 2015)

jockma said:


> Sorry! Here's one.


 Yeah, looks like an immature male. You can also see the peanut shape waist band that males get.


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## Anyfoot (Dec 5, 2015)

jockma said:


> No, he's breathing normally. I can only see the puffiness when I'm holding him up, so I don't know if it's permanent. He can fit entirely inside his shell, for what it's worth. His last poop was normal, maybe a little dry but I didn't catch it while it was fresh so I wouldn't know. He's gotten in the habit of pooping in his enclosure instead of during soaks.


 What's his diet like. What do you feed typically in a week.


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## jockma (Dec 5, 2015)

I grow cactus pads so I feed him the baby pads (before it got so dang cold anyways) frequently, haven't been able to for over a month. I typically feed him escarole, romaine, squash/pumpkin, some kale occasionally, strawberries, bell peppers, mushrooms, anything I can find that checks out on here as RF-safe. I used to feed him some mazuri but that was a while ago. I definitely feel like I should feed him more weeds-type food.

UPDATE: I think he's trying to pass something. Tail is out and looks a bit "fat".


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## jockma (Dec 5, 2015)

The puffiness is NOT permanent! I saw it shrink almost back to normal, then puff back out. So he's constipated?


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## Anyfoot (Dec 5, 2015)

jockma said:


> I grow cactus pads so I feed him the baby pads (before it got so dang cold anyways) frequently, haven't been able to for over a month. I typically feed him escarole, romaine, squash/pumpkin, some kale occasionally, strawberries, bell peppers, mushrooms, anything I can find that checks out on here as RF-safe. I used to feed him some mazuri but that was a while ago. I definitely feel like I should feed him more weeds-type food.


 Yeah I feed weeds most days, on rare days they don't get weeds they get romaine and spring greens instead. 
What do you feed for protein? 
When are you going to vets?

Like said it could be a kidney infection. I got a panic on a while back with one of mine, I started to feed higher fruit content to clear the system out. It sorted the problem and never ended in a visit to the vets.


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## Anyfoot (Dec 5, 2015)

jockma said:


> The puffiness is NOT permanent! I saw it shrink almost back to normal, then puff back out. So he's constipated?


Feed a high fruit content for a bit. Make him get looser. I feed higher fruit content than most anyway. Judge your feeding pattern by the poop. I finally got all my rescues poops looking normal. Firm and moist.


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## jockma (Dec 5, 2015)

For protein usually boiled eggs, some worms, I've fed boiled chicken before. Only about once every 3 weeks...should I feed him more?

I'm waiting for the vet to call me back but should be in the afternoon.


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## jockma (Dec 5, 2015)

He ate a lot of papaya yesterday but I'm afraid to feed him more papaya, he seems to get lethargic after I feed it. I put him in the shower for now because he likes to poop in there.

Should I feed him high-fiber fruits or wet mushy fruits?


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## Yvonne G (Dec 5, 2015)

Cucumber and aloe are good, moist foods.


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## Anyfoot (Dec 5, 2015)

jockma said:


> He ate a lot of papaya yesterday but I'm afraid to feed him more papaya, he seems to get lethargic after I feed it. I put him in the shower for now because he likes to poop in there.
> 
> Should I feed him high-fiber fruits or wet mushy fruits?


Most fruits have fiber. When one of mine was constipated I fed plums,strawberries and grapes heavily. Melon,pears,mango and papaya will loosen him. Pumpkin and other squashes are a good one too. 
Dont be scared to feed fruits. Obviously it doesn't want to be the staple diet. But they need fruit and protein too.


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## Kori5 (Dec 5, 2015)

Any news? I can't track time because of a different zone . Hope you hear from a vet soon.


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## jockma (Dec 5, 2015)

The vet called and said they don't have time for him. I called every other vet in the area and none of them have reptile vets in today. I fed him papaya but I'm still extremely worried. He's active and has an appetite but I really don't want to wait any longer.


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## Kori5 (Dec 5, 2015)

I can't believe they don't have time for a possibly ill tortoise . Could you drive maybe somewhere else to a vet specialist? I think there is a list of vets on this forum. Give him some cucumber for hydration.


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## SarahChelonoidis (Dec 5, 2015)

jockma said:


> The vet called and said they don't have time for him. I called every other vet in the area and none of them have reptile vets in today. I fed him papaya but I'm still extremely worried. He's active and has an appetite but I really don't want to wait any longer.



Since I can't see any of the puffiness you refer to in your photos and as you said, it isn't permanent, I wouldn't be that worried about not getting into a vet right away. He is eating and active, so the situation is likely not an emergency. Tortoises are great survivors, remember.

How long has this tortoise been in your care? What was the rescue scenario like (where did he come from)? Is this your first tortoise? What treatment did he receive for his multiple RIs and how long ago did treatment stop?


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## Anyfoot (Dec 5, 2015)

I agree with Sarah. I wouldn't repeat it but just trying to help, it sounds like you are worrying a lot. 
Your tort is eating,pooping,peeing and is active. These are all good signs of a healthy tort. 
See how it goes over the next few days. 
If it puts your mind at rest I would pre book him into a vet, keeping in mind you could always cancel the appointment.


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## jockma (Dec 5, 2015)

Someone gave him to a pet store in a plastic box lined with newspaper because they were moving (this was in another state). He had diarrhea, bad pyramiding, swollen eyes etc. and this persisted for about 2 months. His RIs were treated with antibiotics, I was a teen at the time so I wasn't an active participant in his treatments but he has not had an RI in two years. I've had him for about 3 1/2 years. We had a death in the family and traveled out of the country for a while so he was in the care of a veterinary nurse for several months. He is my first tortoise.


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## jockma (Dec 5, 2015)

He's not pooping and not sure if he's peeing.  His last poop was about 3 days ago and his last pee was about 2 or 3 days ago.


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## Anyfoot (Dec 5, 2015)

jockma said:


> He's not pooping and not sure if he's peeing.  His last poop was about 3 days ago and his last pee was about 2 or 3 days ago.


 I thought you said his poop was a bit solid. 
If it was me, I would bathe him everyday for 20 minute in warm water, and feed him with a higher fruit/cucumber content. See if baths make him poop. You can't get to a vet yet so you may aswell try something. 
He could be holding water back. Where do you live, has your climate just taken a turn in the cooler direction.


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## Anyfoot (Dec 5, 2015)

jockma said:


> For protein usually boiled eggs, some worms, I've fed boiled chicken before. Only about once every 3 weeks...should I feed him more?
> 
> I'm waiting for the vet to call me back but should be in the afternoon.


 I've only just seen this reply for some reason. I feed protein once a week. Your choices of protein are good.


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## jockma (Dec 5, 2015)

Yes, it's become extremely cold suddenly. It's also become very dry, even more so than usual (I live in LA county). I'm struggling to keep the humidity in his enclosure up now even though it was effortless before. I'm still taking him outside when the temp isn't too low to get him some natural sunlight (above 60 degrees)


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## Anyfoot (Dec 5, 2015)

jockma said:


> Yes, it's become extremely cold suddenly. It's also become very dry, even more so than usual (I live in LA county). I'm struggling to keep the humidity in his enclosure up now even though it was effortless before. I'm still taking him outside when the temp isn't too low to get him some natural sunlight (above 60 degrees)


Change in climate can/will have an impact on there behavior even when indoors.


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## jockma (Dec 5, 2015)

I think the puffiness is permanent...I saw it shrink back only once. Maybe he sucked it in somehow...I don't know. I know I shouldn't worry so much but I can't help it.

Vet appointment is on Monday. He's basking right now and sleeping.


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## jockma (Dec 6, 2015)

The puffiness is affecting his back legs, I just found out. He's not having problems walking. He can fit inside his shell. He's eating strawberries right now.

EDIT: WOAH. He's REALLY puffing himself out. There's some permanent puffiness but I just saw him push it out so it was bulging out of him while making the "I'm trying to poop" face. Then went back to eating, business as usual...I think he's trying to pass something and the fluid retention will go away once he does...


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## Anyfoot (Dec 6, 2015)

jockma said:


> The puffiness is affecting his back legs, I just found out. He's not having problems walking. He can fit inside his shell. He's eating strawberries right now.


 See what you vet says tomorrow. Let us know what's said. Are you bathing him. Has he pooped.


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## jockma (Dec 6, 2015)

Anyfoot said:


> See what you vet says tomorrow. Let us know what's said. Are you bathing him. Has he pooped.


Yes, I soaked him for a moment but decided to feed him first before I soak him more. He hasn't pooped. He's definitely straining though, he puffed up so big while pushing, scared me half to death.


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## SarahChelonoidis (Dec 6, 2015)

jockma said:


> Yes, I soaked him for a moment but decided to feed him first before I soak him more. He hasn't pooped. He's definitely straining though, he puffed up so big while pushing, scared me half to death.



If it looks like something is stuck in his tail, try putting a little mineral oil in his vent to help lubricate whatever it is to get it out.

What kind of substrate do you use in his enclosure?


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## jockma (Dec 6, 2015)

SarahChelonoidis said:


> If it looks like something is stuck in his tail, try putting a little mineral oil in his vent to help lubricate whatever it is to get it out.
> 
> What kind of substrate do you use in his enclosure?


100% coco coir, I don't have any mineral oil on me...is there anything else I can use?

He's soaking now and he's farting a LOT. That's good...


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## Anyfoot (Dec 6, 2015)

jockma said:


> Yes, I soaked him for a moment but decided to feed him first before I soak him more. He hasn't pooped. He's definitely straining though, he puffed up so big while pushing, scared me half to death.


 That's what happened to mine. I kept feeding foods that loosen them up. And warm baths. Her poop was very hard, at one bit a long twig came out with thorns on it. About 2 to 3" long. I'm not saying yours is not an infection but it sounds like some sort of blockage. It will be interesting to see what your vet says. Keep the baths warm. Does he struggle to get out of the bath? If he's sloshing about in the bath trying to escape its a good thing, its making him exercise and adding to getting things moving.


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## dmmj (Dec 6, 2015)

when you go to the vet no vitamin shots please they use too much in the shot & it's often toxic


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## Pearly (Dec 6, 2015)

jockma said:


> 100% coco coir, I don't have any mineral oil on me...is there anything else I can use?
> 
> He's soaking now and he's farting a LOT. That's good...


Olive oil or coconut oil should work


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## jockma (Dec 6, 2015)

I put some olive oil there. The soak didn't help him pass anything so I'm giving him a break for now. Hopefully the strawberries and yesterday's papaya help him out.


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## jockma (Dec 6, 2015)

Here's a pic of the puffiness gone almost all the way down. Then it shot right back out. I'm sure he's retaining water because the soft tissue on his back legs is puffy too, but it's confusing to see him "suck it in" like that.


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## Kori5 (Dec 6, 2015)

It doesn't look that bad. Maybe he has a very large poop stuck there, maybe he ate some coir. Put him in a large tube with shallow water so he can walk. Maybe it will move things. But what helped me the most is a 20 minute car ride to the vet . He started pooping really big.


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## Gillian M (Dec 6, 2015)

Sorry to have just heard your tort seems sick. How about a visit to the vet asap? And wishes for your tort to get well soon!


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## jockma (Dec 6, 2015)

Gillian Moore said:


> Sorry to have just heard your tort seems sick. How about a visit to the vet asap? And wishes for your tort to get well soon!


Vet appt is at 12 tomorrow! Really looking forward to it to put my mind at ease. He's eating and moving about so I've calmed down a bit...still probably way too worried to be healthy for myself lol...but I'm optimistic! Thanks for the well wishes


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## jockma (Dec 6, 2015)

Puffiness looks worse now.

I'm really worried.


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## jockma (Dec 6, 2015)

He also seems to be stressed. Head gets dry so easily.


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## Anyfoot (Dec 6, 2015)

@Yvonne G . If this was a kidney infection, would the puffing up come and go like this?


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## Kori5 (Dec 6, 2015)

Could it be an alergic reaction to some kind of fruit? It is weird it comes and goes.


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## Kori5 (Dec 6, 2015)

http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/swollen-puffy-neck.19294/


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## Anyfoot (Dec 6, 2015)

Kori5 said:


> Could it be an alergic reaction to some kind of fruit? It is weird it comes and goes.


It will come and go if he's straining trying to push some sort of blockage. Its the nature of pushing, I'm guessing if trying to pass kidney stones this will happen. But I don't know if when they do get a kidney infection whether it permanently puffs up or not.


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## SarahChelonoidis (Dec 6, 2015)

I'm still not seeing anything unusual. Edema isn't transient like what you are describing. Tortoises puff out certain parts are they breath and move - you may just be seeing totally normal pudge, for lack of a better word.


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## jockma (Dec 6, 2015)

SarahChelonoidis said:


> I'm still not seeing anything unusual. Edema isn't transient like what you are describing. Tortoises puff out certain parts are they breath and move - you may just be seeing totally normal pudge, for lack of a better word.


It's hard for me to capture it in photographs. His soft tissue is usually concave there, this more or less happened overnight. Here's how it looks from below. I also just noticed a little red spot on his soft tissue...I'm hoping it's a little abrasion from him trying to escape the soak tub.


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## Randi (Dec 6, 2015)

I would soak as much as you can. I will soak mine for an hour typically. If I can't do an hour, it's no less then 30-45 minutes. I am switching out the water as it cools slightly. After soaking, I also hold her under the tap while it runs, and the water hits my hand and gently rolls off to cover her. I find that if there is any feces or dirt on her that didn't come off after the bath, it comes off after the water washes over her. I do this for about 15 minutes. She will sit in my hand until I turn the water off. Then she wants to cruise. I feed her after her soaks, instead of before a soak. I find she's pooped and is emptier so she tends to be hungriest after soaking. I soak numerous times a day this way. If it's problems with the kidneys, dehydration is inevitable. You must provide hydration for your tortoise, lots of it at this point. I worked with animals that had kidney failure and depending on the severity, we would have to do subcutaneous fluid under the skin every week, sometimes numerous times a week for a patient. I think soaking your tort as often as possible will mimic this as closely as you can without actually giving fluid under the skin, while you wait for the vet to intervene. Best of luck to you and yours.


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## jockma (Dec 6, 2015)

Soaking him again now. He's breathing like he's trying to pass something. Lots of pushing.

WOAH, right as I posted this he unleashed a barrage of farts. I mean 5 seconds straight of farting. Really glad...


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## Kori5 (Dec 6, 2015)

Put some olive oil on his hole, just a little to soften things. I hope it it some kind of blockage that will pass. He is lucky to have you . I'm following for news.


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## jockma (Dec 6, 2015)

Soaked for an hour, still no good.  He's straining but not passing anything. He's super active though...he's bumbling around right now in the temp enclosure. Hopefully the activity loosens him up.


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## Kori5 (Dec 6, 2015)

Well he is trying to pass something if there was gas in soak. It usually takes a few days of heavy soaking for poop to soften and pass. Good he is active. Tomorrow is close so you'll know what is going on .I'm sure your vet knows his job but I would insist on a xray as I did just to have peace of a mind.


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## Randi (Dec 6, 2015)

Just keep soaking. It will most likely not be a miracle cure to whatever is ailing your tort but it will definitely keep the tort hydrated and may help with the straining. Make sure the water is nice and warm. A large container helps as they can walk around and hopefully start working out whatever isn't wanting to come out. The most important thing when at the vets, would be a full panel of blood work and an x-ray. Blood work will allow the vet to see how the organs are functioning, if there's any infection or inflammation, etc. X-rays will show any blockages, will show the fecal loading throughout the intestines, etc. Really hope all will be well. Just keep soaking and offering food. As mentioned, mineral oil inserted gently into the cloaca may help lubricate and may assist with the straining. Best of luck to you and yours. Seems that you are doing what you can. Keep your head up. Don't forget to update us once your tort is examined. Thank you.


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## jockma (Dec 6, 2015)

I was soaking him and put some olive oil on his vent. Tried to rub it in good and he pulled up his tail and legs...looked up at his head and his eyes were BULGING out, like he was pushing everything in him up to his head. I started crying immediately. He exhaled and his head went back to normal but my heart stopped when I saw him like that...he's eating strawberries right now. Appetite is the same but I'm so scared. He's still straining.


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## jockma (Dec 6, 2015)

He's making these burp-like sounds as he eats. Sometimes he's grunting while straining.


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## jockma (Dec 6, 2015)

I put him back in his regular enclosure hoping he would be more comfortable pooping in there. Seeing some progress. Lots of tail-wiggling.


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## jockma (Dec 6, 2015)

HE POOPED!!!!!


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## Anyfoot (Dec 6, 2015)

jockma said:


> HE POOPED!!!!!


Hipeee. . Is it hard or soft. Come on, you have to do the squeeze test.


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## jockma (Dec 6, 2015)

Anyfoot said:


> Hipeee. . Is it hard or soft. Come on, you have to do the squeeze test.


Surprisingly...it's VERY soft. Maybe it squeezed past the real blockage? It had undigested bits in it...


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## teresaf (Dec 6, 2015)

jockma said:


> HE POOPED!!!!!


 Did the swelling go down?


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## dmmj (Dec 6, 2015)

I could have squeezed pass a potential blockage, keep an eye on the guy still


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## jockma (Dec 6, 2015)

teresaf said:


> Did the swelling go down?


He's still pooping so I'm trying not to bother him yet. He's trying to at least, pushing hard and wiggling his tail.


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## jockma (Dec 6, 2015)

He has diarrhea. He's still pooping.


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## teresaf (Dec 6, 2015)

I remember someone mentioning that in cases where impaction or rather constipation were suspected that you could coat their food in olive oil to get it inside them...?


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## teresaf (Dec 6, 2015)

jockma said:


> He has diarrhea. He's still pooping.


 Well no doubt, with all the fruits youve been giving him to move things along...


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## dmmj (Dec 6, 2015)

not olive oil mineral oil it doesn't get absorbed


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## teresaf (Dec 6, 2015)

dmmj said:


> not olive oil mineral oil it doesn't get absorbed


 Ahhhh...yes. That's right...


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## jockma (Dec 6, 2015)

He's still straining to get something out...whatever it is it's close. Had his tail sticking out straight and push, push pushing. Hopefully he can pass it soon.


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## Kori5 (Dec 6, 2015)

Yayyy . It's 1:10 am here and my boyfriend is watching a game and I just yelled He poooped . Hahah...Keep an eye on his tail and watch out for a prolapse with the straining. But he sounds better and you know where to start and what to mention to the vet


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## jockma (Dec 6, 2015)

I decided to take him out of the bath because I didn't want him to get too stressed out...he felt lighter, so hopefully he was able to pee a little (it looked like he was peeing but I can't be sure, little flakes of poo jetted out. Flushed out with pee maybe?). Still a bit of puffiness but then again he's still straining. He's pacing around impatiently under his heat lamp now. I feel a lot better knowing things are moving back there even if he didn't pass all of it.


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## Randi (Dec 6, 2015)

So glad there is a little bit of movement! Hopefully there is more where that came from. It was mentioned above that you can give mineral oil orally. You can. Put a few drops on a piece of food and hopefully your tort eats it. I've seen it mentioned before (by Yvonne I believe) that you can roll up lettuce or whatever you choose to use like a burrito with the mineral oil inside - may make getting it in easier. It will help lubricate. I'd also still use a drop or two up the cloaca so when your tort does have a bowel movement, hopefully whatever it is manages to come out too. Also, I do not think there is such a thing as soaking too much in this situation. Best of luck.


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## MPRC (Dec 6, 2015)

If you don't have mineral oil you can use a bit of petroluem jelly without any extra junk in it. That's what we used for cats with hairballs when I was a vet assistant. You could rub it on a strawberry or other yummy treat and give it to him that way.


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## jockma (Dec 7, 2015)

Morning everybody...the vet appointment is in a few hours and I'm soaking him again for now. He's trying to escape the soak tub as usual. Still doesn't seem lethargic. Not passing anything but farting a bit. I feel like his pyramiding has gotten worse although he has had smooth growth lines for months now...so I'm worried about what that could mean. I think I should keep him indoors with a UVB bulb all the time instead of taking him outside so much. It's too dry outside.

"Puffiness" isn't as prominent as before. In fact it looks almost normal. It comes and goes. That's comforting. His head still looks dry but that could be from stress. He's not used to having so many soaks and being in his temp enclosure. I can't wait for a blood panel. Thank you all for the tips...is Vaseline safe for him to eat? Should I wait for the vet visit first?


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## Anyfoot (Dec 7, 2015)

jockma said:


> Morning everybody...the vet appointment is in a few hours and I'm soaking him again for now. He's trying to escape the soak tub as usual. Still doesn't seem lethargic. Not passing anything but farting a bit. I feel like his pyramiding has gotten worse although he has had smooth growth lines for months now...so I'm worried about what that could mean. I think I should keep him indoors with a UVB bulb all the time instead of taking him outside so much. It's too dry outside.
> 
> "Puffiness" isn't as prominent as before. In fact it looks almost normal. It comes and goes. That's comforting. His head still looks dry but that could be from stress. He's not used to having so many soaks and being in his temp enclosure. I can't wait for a blood panel. Thank you all for the tips...is Vaseline safe for him to eat? Should I wait for the vet visit first?


 Don't know about Vaseline, but with vets appointment being so close, I wouldn't try anything new. See what the vet says. Good luck. Fingers crossed here.


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## Pearly (Dec 7, 2015)

Vaseline is petrolatum jelly. His gut seems to be conpromised, I'd not add the risk of him ingesting vaseline at this time. I'm glad you are taking him to the vet. Ihope they do xray to check for any blockage, and also blood panel to check for any potential reasons for the swelling (circulatory, kidney, liver issues, or electolytes imbalance, or low protein levels, or any others). Good luck and please keep us posted


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## Kori5 (Dec 7, 2015)

Good luck and share the news from the vet, I'll stay up


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## jockma (Dec 7, 2015)

At the vet. Blood is being taken. The vet is not very concerned about the puffiness and thinks it might be a variation of normal for him. I still don't feel any better honestly. I'm scared.


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## jockma (Dec 7, 2015)

Vet told me to keep him "dry"...on newspapers she said...this concerns me...why would I keep a rainforest tort dry? I definitely make sure the substrate isn't wet but I'd never keep him dry. Especially not when kidney issues are possible. I don't know.


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## Kori5 (Dec 7, 2015)

Well test will show, I waited for the results for a few days and was very worried, just like you. He also wasn't pooping. And when tests came it showed everything is ok


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## jockma (Dec 7, 2015)

I hope so...I am so scared...I just want to know my baby is OK.


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## Kori5 (Dec 7, 2015)

jockma said:


> Vet told me to keep him "dry"...on newspapers she said...this concerns me...why would I keep a rainforest tort dry? I definitely make sure the substrate isn't wet but I'd never keep him dry. Especially not when kidney issues are possible. I don't know.


 I have no idea why, usually soaking is recomended. Did you request an xray? Please do and insist as I had to. It is pricey but maybe really important.


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## Anyfoot (Dec 7, 2015)

jockma said:


> Vet told me to keep him "dry"...on newspapers she said...this concerns me...why would I keep a rainforest tort dry? I definitely make sure the substrate isn't wet but I'd never keep him dry. Especially not when kidney issues are possible. I don't know.


 You need to ask the vet why he needs to be kept dry.


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## Kori5 (Dec 7, 2015)

Ask everything you wanna know even if you think it is stupid or not important...He needs to explain everything to you. My was so nice and I am really paranoid.


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## jockma (Dec 7, 2015)

He has a little abrasion on his head. She believes it's an infection. We were given antibiotic ointment to put on it.


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## jockma (Dec 7, 2015)

She said to soak him but keep him off substrate until the infection clears. So keep him on newspapers or paper towels.


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## dmmj (Dec 7, 2015)

don't be afraid 2 ask questions a good vet will answer them ask them why he needs to kept dry simple as that


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## Kori5 (Dec 7, 2015)

But what about the not pooping and straining thing? How does she explain that and can eliminate an possible blockage?


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## jockma (Dec 7, 2015)

X-Ray done. NO blockage but lots of poop ready to come out. No kidney/bladder stones. Vet says she's not worried.


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## Kori5 (Dec 7, 2015)

Great news . I hope its just a small infection. Good you took him, hope you can calm a little.


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## jockma (Dec 7, 2015)

I feel horrible about the scrape on his head...he got it while outside so I assumed his skin got too dry in the sun...it was getting less noticeable so I forgot about it...but looking now it definitely looks infected...

I hope the ointment works fast. Vet doesn't think it's anything really but I feel so guilty...


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## dmmj (Dec 7, 2015)

still struggling to pass something? That's what I'd worry about


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## Kori5 (Dec 7, 2015)

jockma said:


> I feel horrible about the scrape on his head...he got it while outside so I assumed his skin got too dry in the sun...it was getting less noticeable so I forgot about it...but looking now it definitely looks infected...
> 
> I hope the ointment works fast. Vet doesn't think it's anything really but I feel so guilty...


Mine had a thorn near his eye for a whole day beffore I noticed. He spends summers outside and things like that happen. Tortoises in wild also get injured and my vet said I wouldn't believe with what injuries they eat, walk and live . Keep him soaking and put some olive oil on his hole to help him pass that poop.


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## jockma (Dec 7, 2015)

A bit, but I think he got most of it out yesterday. Only poop came up in the X-rays, no blockages or stones, and it's moving down nicely. I'm letting him rest for now. I soaked him before applying the antibiotic ointment and he doesn't seem to be straining nearly as hard. I think he was mostly straining to get that papaya out.


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## dmmj (Dec 7, 2015)

I forgot to mention straining could also be. because of parasites did you get a check done?


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## jockma (Dec 7, 2015)

dmmj said:


> I forgot to mention straining could also be. because of parasites did you get a check done?


We had a blood test done...would that be sufficient or would we need a fecal test?


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## dmmj (Dec 7, 2015)

no unfortunately a blood test will not show a parasite overload a fecal test will need to be done


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## Kori5 (Dec 7, 2015)

When he poops in a few days put it in a small jar from pharmacy and dip a litttle water on it and put it in the fridge for your next vet visit.


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## jockma (Dec 7, 2015)

Kori5 said:


> When he poops in a few days put it in a small jar from pharmacy and dip a litttle water on it and put it in the fridge for your next vet visit.


Yes I'll bring some poop to his next appointment. I feel awful moving him around so much since today has been so hectic for him so I'll wait a bit and let him rest. I'm sure I'll get a sample soon since he ate a ton of romaine and boiled egg this morning. That's a good combo for him, poop-wise.


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## jockma (Dec 7, 2015)

Quick update: the puffiness is more or less gone, and he is no longer straining. I fed him some chopped up hay and some greens to trick him into eating it. I'll soak him later tonight and see if we can bring those poops out. It looks like he was straining yesterday because he ate something that made him uncomfortable. I'm betting on the papaya since it gave him diarrhea before even when fed in small amounts with plenty of fiber. And then I fed him more of it. :/


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## mike taylor (Dec 7, 2015)

Feed him some cactus . This will get things moving .


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## jockma (Dec 7, 2015)

mike taylor said:


> Feed him some cactus . This will get things moving .


I'd love to but my cactus pads aren't producing much recently. I can't find any around here that I'm comfortable feeding him. I like giving him the "baby" pads that aren't prickly yet.


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## mike taylor (Dec 7, 2015)

You can buy cactus at a Mexican food store already cut up in bags . Try cucumbers also . If he is stopped up stop the hey feedings . Feed foods with more water content . Mazuri soaked in water works also .


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## jockma (Dec 7, 2015)

I fed him hay to firm up his poops a bit, he only had diarrhea yesterday but he has some more poops on the way. I fed him lots of strawberries alongside everything else. I also have some cucumber so I'll feed some after his soak tonight.


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## jockma (Dec 7, 2015)

Spoke too soon! Found a nice, big (though mushy) poop in his temp enclosure. It's firmer than it was yesterday. He was able to pass it without soaking so that's good.


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## Kori5 (Dec 8, 2015)

How is he today?


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## jockma (Dec 8, 2015)

He's doing really well. Puffiness is gone. He's not straining anymore either. I'm really curious about the blood test results but I'm really optimistic. I'm leaning on my theory that he retained water because he ate something that really disagreed with him and he needed fluids to flush it out. The vet confirmed he was puffy so at least I know it wasn't just my imagination lol.

He also seems to have had a growth spurt! Nice and smooth. Maybe from all that feeding to get him to poop?


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## Anyfoot (Dec 8, 2015)

jockma said:


> He's doing really well. Puffiness is gone. He's not straining anymore either. I'm really curious about the blood test results but I'm really optimistic. I'm leaning on my theory that he retained water because he ate something that really disagreed with him and he needed fluids to flush it out. The vet confirmed he was puffy so at least I know it wasn't just my imagination lol.
> 
> He also seems to have had a growth spurt! Nice and smooth. Maybe from all that feeding to get him to poop?


Typically in a week, what do you feed him normally?


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## Randi (Dec 8, 2015)

Glad you had your appointment. It's good that it's only fecal loading showing on the x-ray. I would be concerned though about how long it's taken to resolve if it's just fecal matter. Hopefully yours is a poop machine. Are you sure that it isn't eating it's own poop? Mine did that an incredible amount when I first got her and thought she was never pooping in her enclosure and only in soaks. I spot cleaned daily and could never find any. I kept noticing how dark her face was getting and that it'd go away in a soak. She also had a smelly face. Haha. I walked into the room where the enclosure is and saw her eating a big fresh poop, and it was smeared all over her. Yum! Cleaned her all up. Didn't matter because she did it for a while. As my baby Cherry Head that I rescued started to get better, the poop eating was less and less. I haven't seen any signs of poop eating for a long while now. 

I'm glad yours has pooped and is hopefully on the mend.  as others have suggested, maybe it is related to dietary concerns? Listing what you feed and how often would be good. Best of luck to you and yours.


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## jockma (Dec 8, 2015)

I've seen him eat his own poop before...but I've been spot cleaning a lot these past few months so I thought he stopped. Now what he does is he buries his poop. I sifted through his substrate and didn't find anything. He tends to always poop in the same few spots so it's easy to find. Maybe he did eat it...

I've been feeding him a bit more these past few weeks. Mostly lettuce, peppers and squash, as well as grapes, all foods he eats regularly. I fed him protein twice this week. Maybe he was due for a growth spurt. But I've definitely been stuffing him these past few days. There was no sudden change until papaya day. Then he puffed up like a marshmallow.


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## Randi (Dec 8, 2015)

Any chance mine had to eat her feces, she would. Any time I was close to her enclosure I'd check for feces. It was as if she'd poop, turn around and start eating. Ahhaah. I wonder if yours is doing the same, and you're looking and finding none. Mine will sometimes poop and lay on it (I wonder if she is pooping while sleeping?) and then that squishes it into the substrate. 

I feed mine at least twice a day. The minimum amount that I soak is twice daily. I normally end up doing 3 or 4 soaks daily, and 3 feedings. Never hurts to do either in my opinion. I would try to vary the diet with more things like weeds and flowers. Google "Tortoise Table Plant Database" and browse. They have so many items listed. They also discuss how often to feed a certain item, what benefits those items can have, what kind of negative impact it can have and beyond. I rarely feed mine fruit. Rarely every two weeks, normally once a month. Mine gets protein once every week. Sometimes if I feed the turtle protein and have leftovers, I'll feed them to her. Boiled chicken, boiled turkey, cat food, cod, halibut, krill, salmon, silversides, etc. She loves mealworms and anything that wiggles. 

Maybe yours had a reaction to it? I would avoid the papaya from now on. I also would avoid feeding the peppers too often, as well as the grapes. I would try to add more beneficial food items to fill up that tummy. I don't see why they couldn't be allergic to certain food items. If you ever notice such a reaction again, pay close attention to what you're feeding and record the reaction. I really hope from here on out, it's smooth sailing for you and yours.


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## jockma (Dec 8, 2015)

Yes I'm going to start growing some weeds for him. Before I moved I had a nice yard that he spent all day in. He would eat all the weeds and I'd feed him some fruits and veggies as a supplement. Now there's not much "yard" for him to do that so it's been just fruits and veggies for a while. But I'm growing cactus for him so I don't see why I can't grow weeds. He still eats all the weeds that grow in the little yard. There's just not enough of them to fill him up like before. 

I soaked him three times a day when he was smaller. I only soak him once a day now that he's bigger and healthier. I've been soaking him 3 times a day since this puffiness issue began, though. I always worry about stressing him out so I feel bad soaking him often, it's good for him but he just gets so frustrated since he's the kind of tort that can't sit still for a moment. And I'm also the kind of person that's bad at "tough love".


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## jockma (Dec 8, 2015)

I found a big wet puddle in his temp enclosure. He peed! And he drank some water during his soak. I haven't seen him pee or drink water since this started so I'm really relieved.


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## Anyfoot (Dec 9, 2015)

jockma said:


> I found a big wet puddle in his temp enclosure. He peed! And he drank some water during his soak. I haven't seen him pee or drink water since this started so I'm really relieved.


 This is a very good list of redfoot foods. All the info on this site for redfoots in my opinion is spot on. 

http://www.tortoiselibrary.com/nutrition-2/good-foods-list/


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## jockma (Dec 9, 2015)

Anyfoot said:


> This is a very good list of redfoot foods. All the info on this site for redfoots in my opinion is spot on.
> 
> http://www.tortoiselibrary.com/nutrition-2/good-foods-list/


This list is surprising!

I read elsewhere that cabbage and kale were no good to feed regularly for RFs. And that yam was great and could be fed regularly. I'd still be feeding him yam regularly if he didn't suddenly become violent towards it. 

I like the dog/cat food for protein, so much more convenient and I probably wouldn't have to trick him into eating it like I do with boiled eggs. I was always too scared to feed it because so many MBD case stories start out with "this tortoise was mostly fed dog food..."


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## Anyfoot (Dec 9, 2015)

jockma said:


> This list is surprising!
> 
> I read elsewhere that cabbage and kale were no good to feed regularly for RFs. And that yam was great and could be fed regularly. I'd still be feeding him yam regularly if he didn't suddenly become violent towards it.
> 
> I like the dog/cat food for protein, so much more convenient and I probably wouldn't have to trick him into eating it like I do with boiled eggs. I was always too scared to feed it because so many MBD case stories start out with "this tortoise was mostly fed dog food..."


 I have quite a few rescue adults. Finally, i think I've got the feeding correct. I had some with poop the consistency of soup and some that was the consistency of cold putty. 
I reckon at one point I was feeding too much dried cat food, this gave some of them the runs. I keep away from that now. Occasionally I will drop a few cat biscuits for them. The 2 I had that had hard poop when I got them, ate anything and everything in the garden that was green even toxic plants. One of them won't eat banana. So I started to feed them plums, not too ripe though(the riper the fruit the more sugar there is in general) you dont want a fat tort. I will feed over ripe fruit if there is some left in our fruit bowl. But usually it's just firm. For example the pears I feed are hardish. 
The eggs I scramble. Beat the egg crush the shell up and mix it in. Them microwave to scramble. Sometimes I add other foods in that just for a change.
I was surprised when you thought the papaya was upsetting your tort. Not saying its not, but suprised. 
Veriety is key. 
Mine get weeds or greens/romaine every day. Protein once a week, and I fruit, very little but often. 
Poop tells you a lot. Firm and moist is what I aim for. 
BTW. They don't digest the food completely the first time around. When they eat the poop they get, I think I read about 90% of the nutrients. First time around about 50%. 
I've had many a debate with my Missis about tomatoes giving them the runs too. We feed tomatoes about twice a month at the most. 
If my reds eat all the fruit and mushrooms then leave most of the greens or weeds, they then get only weeds and greens for the next couple of days. I've had it where on the 1st day they turned there nose up to the weeds, but them on the 2nd day they have had to eat them(a fresh pile of course). 
Read your tort, and don't just feed what you know it likes. Very very rare do mine leave any dandilions. All this is for my adults. 
Good luck in the future.


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## Kori5 (Dec 10, 2015)

Sorry I was absent because of an exam but I passed . How is he doing and is he pooping?


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## jockma (Dec 14, 2015)

Sorry for the late reply. I was too nervous to say anything before the blood panel results came back.

He has high potassium and high SGOT (AST) levels. The vet won't be in until Wednesday so I had to ask for the results and review them myself. I don't know what this means but I'm terrified. All I can find is elevated AST indicates liver disease. I'm scared.


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## jockma (Dec 14, 2015)

I spoke with another vet on the phone. She says he has a mild infection and should be given antibiotics and have his bloodwork rechecked in a few weeks to see if SGAT levels go down. Kidneys appear to be okay. It's all in the liver.


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## Randi (Dec 14, 2015)

I'm wondering if the wonderful deadheadvet can give some guidance as to what to expect and look for in your situation. Your tort hasn't been examined by this person of course but maybe they have some suggestions as to what to test for and maybe a suggestion as to what medication can be used. I'm glad there's an update - not exactly the best news but it could be worse. I'm glad it is what it is.

@deadheadvet , any advice?


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## jockma (Dec 14, 2015)

The vet made it seem like it wasn't a big deal...apparently a lot of reptiles especially rescues have liver disease...but it doesn't make me feel any better at all...I don't know what this means for my baby.


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## jockma (Dec 14, 2015)

They said to do a biopsy on the liver to see exactly what's wrong. I have another appointment on Wednesday. Does anyone else have a herp with liver disease...I'm so scared I don't know what to do for him.


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## jockma (Dec 14, 2015)

I just got the BEST news of my LIFE.

The original vet I saw on Monday just called me. She told me that my tortoise's liver enzymes are NOT elevated. EVERYTHING IS NORMAL. He needs a little bit more calcium but that's all.

The vet I spoke to before was looking at the general liver enzyme levels for ALL reptiles. My baby's levels are NORMAL for a redfoot. Everything is normal except for the calcium and mild infection.

SORRY FOR THE FALSE ALARM. I'm so happy right now.


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## Randi (Dec 14, 2015)

That's great that there aren't any abnormalities other then the calcium levels and infection. That is normally an easy fix. Do you provide calcium supplements and how often? Do you have a UVB light? Does your tort have access to the sun? Do you feed foods that contain calcium? Does your tort have a cuttlebone? And once some antibiotics are started, hopefully the infection goes away. Don't be sorry for the false alarm. I'm happy that that's all it was, was a false alarm.


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## jockma (Dec 14, 2015)

Yes, he gets UVB and natural sunlight. I started feeding less calcium supplements a few months ago because I was afraid I was giving him too much. I'll bring it back up to the old amount I was giving him. The infection is very mild, so it's likely caused by the infected wound on his head. Half of it has healed nicely, the other half is taking longer. I think what happened was he was climbing and jumping off things as usual, and his shell scraped a flap of skin off his head when he dove down onto his substrate. The flap fell back on top of the wound so it just looked like a little scrape, but as it started healing it peeled off and I noticed it's much deeper than it looked. It's finally started improving these past few days so I'm not too worried.

Sorry for the weird emotional roller coaster. I'm glad he and I can both start to relax...


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## Randi (Dec 14, 2015)

You don't need to apologize at all. Save them for another day.  It is always good when there is less wrong then first anticipated. Just don't forget to breathe, OK? You took the necessary steps to ensure that your tort was healthy. That's being a good owner. You should be proud.

Sounds like a good idea to increase the calcium that's offered. It sounds like you are on the right track. Are you able to get an ointment on the wound? Polysporin, maybe Fucidin, things like those? Would help with the healing process. As I said, you're on the right track. Great job. I wish there was a thumbs up icon as I'd use about 5, at least. Haha.


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## jockma (Dec 14, 2015)

Thank you so much for your kind words. I've been able to apply antibacterial and antifungal ointment to the wound twice a day (will adjust treatment once the lab culture comes back). I always worry that past neglect from his first home will catch up to him so I fuss a lot over his health. He has two "sets" of smooth growth on his shell because I went on a trip for several months and he was kept too dry in boarding, so he had a surge of new pyramiding. I STILL beat myself up over that. So I really appreciate it, it means a lot 

He's eating some pumpkin right now, sprinkled with calcium as promised! Also @Kori5 this morning he made two perfectly firm, perfectly moist poops. So proud of my handsome boy.


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## Randi (Dec 14, 2015)

You're most welcome. It's good that you're applying ointment to the wound. Did the vet do a swab on the wound and is waiting to receive the results? I understand the fussing. My tortoise was a rescue and was very sick. I've spent almost the entire time I've had her trying to repair the damage that was done from her previous life. I can't even say previous home as she has only ever been with the vendor and then the pet store (for over 6 months) before me. She's much better now and is still healing. She has a lot of catching up to do. Mine is a Cherry Head Red Foot. I think I'd rather be too concerned then not concerned enough. Too often people don't give a **** about their animals. I love it when the person is attentive to the animals needs and will take action when needed. It is also great when they take action with the advice that's given. I wouldn't beat yourself up over it. As long as there is effort to repair what's been done or what was deemed as wrong, and there is effort to avoid making that same error, then we shouldn't be upset with ourselves. That gives us an opportunity to fix it and grow from it. I'm glad there's improvement. Yay for poop! Who knew that poop could be so exciting! Haha.


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## Kori5 (Dec 15, 2015)

I'm glad to hear he is ok . Again, I went through the same experience with waiting for the blood results. When I recieved them I searched the net and was terrified because some things seemed off. But after a call with my vet she explained to me that parameters vary from specie to specie and even depend on the season . So sometimes the best thing is to not search the web and let the vets do their job. I'm glad he is doing much better! They do worry us sometimes.


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## jockma (Dec 15, 2015)

Yes, I thought that the difference in species would affect the results so I called the vet to confirm, my vet was not there so I spoke to another vet. I think maybe she specialized in birds or rodents instead of reptiles so she confirmed my worst fears for me. I could've kissed my vet when she called me to tell me my little Bean was FINE. She was a goddess in my mind when she said that.

Today I'm buying a new UVB bulb for him in case the last one stopped working properly and that's why his calcium is low, just in case. @Randi I'm so glad we're in the same boat, even though it's a very sad situation to be in! RFs (and by extension cherry heads, I'm sure) are surprisingly resilient. Mine was very sick when I got him as well. He slowly but surely got much better. He hasn't had health problems in a while now. He was being fed pellets only (not Mazuri, the rainbow pellets from Petco) and it took days for him to even open his eyes. It's a process but I'm sure your baby will eventually thrive. It takes a lot to undo the damage but good husbandry is 90% of the cure so I'm positive you'll have a thriving CH soon.


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## Randi (Dec 15, 2015)

I'm sure species would affect results, as well as the age, care, circumstances before owning the animal, size, etc., so it's good you spoke with your vet about it. I'm glad it has turned out to be much better then first anticipated. 

Good idea to replace the bulb. I replace mine every 6 months. Different circumstances but the outcome was the same so we are in the same boat indeed. This boat doesn't make for smooth sailing. Mine has gotten so much better but she's really small and I feel she's stunted. Mine had been in a pet store in a sick room in a five gallon tank with soaking wet soil and no heat source, no light source and was only offered kale and carrots for atleast 6 months. Staff said they had never seen her eat. No one could give me a date of birth or paperwork to show how old. I was told by the vet that she was a year and a half old and that was when I got her. She was around 40 grams. That was July of last year. She's now almost triple that and has increased in length. She also had severe shell rot and needed an injection of antibiotics as well as oral to fight the infection internally. Her plastron was rotting away and she smelled horrible. She also needed medicated scrubs and cream daily and that went on for at least 9 months straight. I still do a treatment a week to ensure it never happens again. Both of ours were in very terrible situations. What's even sadder is that they can't choose what happens to them. Mine has improved tremendously and continues. I think that I expected that getting her to where she is would easier and quicker. It's been a process. I see how my turtle is growing and wish that my tortoise was similar. I believe they are slower growing then turtles. So it's ok, I will give her the time and care she needs for the rest of her life. We will see in a few years how big she is. Only time will tell. Thanks for your inspiring words. I'm sure ours will do great.


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## jockma (Dec 15, 2015)

Today I replaced his UVB bulb and he was basking under it all day (with a very pleased look on his face!) but the old bulb was only 4 months old! I think the calcium deficiency came from a faulty bulb and NOT the reduction in supplements, but I'm still feeding him extra calcium just in case. I feel horrible! He must've felt crummy for months from a faulty bulb and inadequate/no UVB. I noticed he had been ignoring the last bulb ever since I put it in when he used to bask under his UVB bulbs frequently in the past but I didn't think anything of it. That's potentially 4 months of low to no UVB from the bulb, the UVB he got in that time frame would've been from a few days a week outside and even then he's always in deep shade. 

Randi, those conditions sound horrible! I'm so glad you took her in! I can't imagine what she went through in those months or years but what matters now is she's well cared-for. I'm sure she's having the time of her life now that she's being given proper temps, proper humidity, proper food, proper CARE. It's probably the first time in her life that she's properly cared for. It sounds like she's improving and I have no doubt she'll continue on getting better. I have no idea how old my RF is so I can't properly map out his growth rate but he had slow growth for a few years even with proper husbandry and I thought he may be stunted as well. He only recently started having big growth spurts these past 6 months or so. Hope the same happens for your CH, but I've seen some other rescues that were stunted but still were able to go on and have happy, healthy lives. Frequent vet check ups to monitor organ function and good husbandry should be all she needs, and you sound like you have it down pat.


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## Kori5 (Dec 16, 2015)

I'm sure your tortoises will be fine with time. Unfortunately we can't change their previous life and care, we can only hope our love will make them strong and healthy . @jockma I had a coil uvb bulb for a month before I changed it to a uv tube. He didn't want to bask under it and was lethargic. Now he is active and loves his new lamp . I also give him calcium powder on his food two times a week and vitamins ( they also have calcium and vitamin d) three times a week. The low calcium level in blood is easily fixed . Don't worry!


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## jockma (Dec 16, 2015)

His first bulb was a coil bulb and although it didn't give him any problems (his eyes didn't open for several days when I got him but they eventually opened while using that bulb) I switched it out right away when I found out about the health issues they were causing. Good job catching the problem! Glad you're giving good quality UVB for your baby. I've been using Reptisun mercury vapor bulbs for a while now. He's always loved basking under them until this last bulb, he acted like it wasn't even there and he had another bulb to bask under so he favored that one. I didn't think it was possible for these bulbs to be faulty, I hope they're not and this is just a coincidence, but the last time he spent all day basking under the UVB bulb was years ago when he got his first one. He was severely calcium deficient from lack of UVB. His eyes hadn't opened yet and he wasn't moving much but he climbed on top of his hide just to get more of it. So I feel like he was missing out on his UVB and he's trying to make up for lost time. Well, now he has all the time in the world


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## ZEROPILOT (Dec 16, 2015)

Jockma. If you don't mind my asking. What is the location and name of your vet?
A lot of that sounds very familiar.


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## jockma (Dec 16, 2015)

Dr. Jack at Exotic Animal Care Center.


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## jockma (Dec 18, 2015)

He's taking the antibiotics really well with no side effects except for a bit of diarrhea after each dose. Pee looks and smells normal and his wound has finally started to heal quickly after the first dose of antibiotics. I think we're in the clear. 

(Not that it matters, but I saw his tail out and looked to see if he was pooping and he decided to flash me. Twice. He's also making that grunting sound a lot which I now know is associated with Male RF Horniness. We have some trying times up ahead. )


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## Kori5 (Dec 18, 2015)

When mine flashed me for the first time (and I was examining his plastron) I was shocked with the size of his thing


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## nootnootbu (Apr 14, 2021)

Another trick for calcium in torts is to leave a cuttlebone in the enclosure. Often, a depleted tort will eat a great deal of cuttlebone when they feel they need a boost. 

Some of my rescues, when I first got them, ate a whole bunch of cuttlebone, then, as soon as they felt well again, they pretty much quit eating it and just give the occasional nibble now.


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