# Travelling from US with pet tortoise - docs required?



## Melaleuca (Sep 23, 2020)

Hi all, I live in the US with a young redfooted tortoise, and while I'm not currently planning on moving out of the US it is a real possibility somewhere down the line. 

I'd like to know what the US side of the process is and documents required if that can be determined without knowing the going-to country. I've searched the forum and internet more generally and not found a lot of info about exporting from the US. Do I need documentation demonstrating it was captive bred here in the US? When I contacted the breeder about it they said they don't provide anything like that and haven't heard of any others doing so either, and that I'd just need a certificate of health from a vet, plus an import permit from the country being moved to. Is this correct? From what I've read countries need a CITES a permit to bring a CITES II animals into a country and it seems like you need something from the breeder to get that, unless it's different for non-native critters? I want to get any issues with a potential move cleared up long beforehand so I know my options. 

Any info on this would be helpful, thanks!


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## Agathaade (Sep 23, 2020)

I’m looking into it for my Hermann.
So far my understanding is that I need a captive-bred statement from the breeder (no idea if that’s a standard form or can be just a on-faith letter), a clean bill of health, and a CITES permit to export.
From there, it depends where you’re going and what the agreements are with the US.
For the European country I’m looking at, seems like nothing else is needed. The required paperwork, then planning shipping through an accredited company.
Once there I believe a vet visit and chipping is mandatory, this within a certain timeframe.

I’m still navigating the clunky websites for both countries, info is hard to parse.
I’d love to hear from people who have experience with this too.


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## Pastel Tortie (Sep 24, 2020)

@Maro2Bear is usually a good person to ask about international travel, shipping, and other requirements.


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## Duckster RT (Sep 24, 2020)

I always travel within states with my shelled friend. Nobody bothered us. Actually it was the opposite ppl found it cool. Then one day about 10 years ago we were rejected on the return flight home. Even though we had no out bound problems they refused to let us both go back home. I was really upset the lady behind me had a lap dog with no cage We didn’t fly.


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## Tom (Sep 24, 2020)

Reptiles have not been allowed on domestic flights for as long as I can remember.

International travel is very difficult and expensive. Doing it yourself will almost certainly result in failure, and likely loss of the animal. Find a broker who does international animal travel and ask them what will be required. You'll have a lot more gray hairs and a lot less money, if you are even able to do it. I do it for a living. Its never easy, and you spend a lot of time convincing people to let it go, and a lot of time just ramming things through. For someone who has no knowledge of 'the system", it will not be easy.


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## zovick (Sep 24, 2020)

Melaleuca said:


> Hi all, I live in the US with a young redfooted tortoise, and while I'm not currently planning on moving out of the US it is a real possibility somewhere down the line.
> 
> I'd like to know what the US side of the process is and documents required if that can be determined without knowing the going-to country. I've searched the forum and internet more generally and not found a lot of info about exporting from the US. Do I need documentation demonstrating it was captive bred here in the US? When I contacted the breeder about it they said they don't provide anything like that and haven't heard of any others doing so either, and that I'd just need a certificate of health from a vet, plus an import permit from the country being moved to. Is this correct? From what I've read countries need a CITES a permit to bring a CITES II animals into a country and it seems like you need something from the breeder to get that, unless it's different for non-native critters? I want to get any issues with a potential move cleared up long beforehand so I know my options.
> 
> Any info on this would be helpful, thanks!


I agree with Tom on this one. You are better off not even trying to do this move from one country to another with a tortoise.

You won't be allowed to carry a tortoise onto a plane as a pet in the US which would be the easiest and simplest way to get it there. You might be able to put it in a carrier and check it in as excess baggage as we used to do with dogs (because the excess baggage fee was far less than shipping a dog by itself), but I am not certain of that still being possible in today's world. If you are flying on a foreign airline you MAY be able to carry a tortoise with you, but you would still have to get it through the TSA checkpoint in this country which would very likely result in it being taken from you. I just heard of one lady who was allowed to fly FROM Mexico City TO Chicago with her tortoise on an Aeromexico flight, but then in Chicago, she was denied a seat on her next flight and had to rent a car and drive 10 hours to get to her final destination.

Most probably you will need to ship the tortoise to someone in the other country before you move or move there first leaving the tortoise here and then have someone here ship it to you once you are there. All this can be very difficult for people who are not familiar with the way these things have to be handled.

It would be far easier to simply leave the tortoise here and buy a new one once you have moved. You will save yourself a lot of headaches as well as $$.


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## Tom (Sep 24, 2020)

zovick said:


> I agree with Tom on this one. You won't be allowed to carry a tortoise onto a plane as a pet in the US which would be the easiest and simplest way to get it there. You might be able to put it in a carrier and check it in as excess baggage as we used to do with dogs (because the excess baggage fee was far less than shipping a dog by itself), but I am not certain of that still being possible in today's world. If you are flying on a foreign airline you MAY be able to carry a tortoise with you, but you would still have to get it through the TSA checkpoint in this country which would very likely result in it being taken from you. I just heard of one lady who was allowed to fly FROM Mexico City TO Chicago with her tortoise on an Aeromexico flight, but then in Chicago, she was denied a seat on her next flight and had to rent a car and drive 10 hours to get to her final destination.
> 
> Most probably you will need to ship the tortoise to someone in the other country before you move or move there first leaving the tortoise here and then have someone here ship it to you once you are there. All this can be very difficult for people who are not familiar with the way these things have to be handled.
> 
> It would be far easier to simply leave the tortoise here and buy a new one once you have moved. You will save yourself a lot of headaches as well as $$.


They stopped allowing any animals as excess baggage 10-15 years ago. We used to do it that way most of the time. Then they started making us send them as cargo. Cargo got more and more difficult, and expensive, so now we send them as "celebrity animals". Its cheaper to buy two first class seats, one for the dog/animal, and one for the trainer, than it is to fly them cargo. Its gone from ridiculous to absurd. Because of my business, I'm allowed to do this. I don't think the general public could do it though. The airlines vets each animal and makes an internal file for them. I haven't tried this coming home internationally yet, but do it on domestic flights all over the US on a regular basis.

My dog Sophie going from LAX to GA with a fellow trainer:


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## Melaleuca (Sep 25, 2020)

Thanks for the responses everyone. I realise it wouldn't be easy, that's why I'm trying to get an idea what is needed should it be necessary down the line.



Tom said:


> International travel is very difficult and expensive. Doing it yourself will almost certainly result in failure, and likely loss of the animal. Find a broker who does international animal travel and ask them what will be required. You'll have a lot more gray hairs and a lot less money, if you are even able to do it. I do it for a living. Its never easy, and you spend a lot of time convincing people to let it go, and a lot of time just ramming things through. For someone who has no knowledge of 'the system", it will not be easy.



I didn't know about brokers so that's good to learn! I'll have to contact one and find out what docs I would need and what the process would be.



zovick said:


> Most probably you will need to ship the tortoise to someone in the other country before you move or move there first leaving the tortoise here and then have someone here ship it to you once you are there. All this can be very difficult for people who are not familiar with the way these things have to be handled.
> 
> It would be far easier to simply leave the tortoise here and buy a new one once you have moved. You will save yourself a lot of headaches as well as $$.



I didn't expect to take it on a plane; I assumed shipping somehow would be the way to go so that's fine. I'm not familiar with it now which is why I want to learn.

I realise it would be way simpler and "easier" to leave my redfoot here if I have to move overseas, but she has way more value to me than anything else I own. I would part with her if I absolutely had to but it would devastating. 


Even if it's difficult I'd like to at least know what's required to take her overseas so I can determine for myself if it'is something that would be just too expensive/impractical to achieve.


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## zovick (Sep 25, 2020)

Melaleuca said:


> Thanks for the responses everyone. I realise it wouldn't be easy, that's why I'm trying to get an idea what is needed should it be necessary down the line.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I have used customs brokers to import tortoises to the US a couple of times and they have charged about $1200 each time. Their charges did not include the shipping cost or the brokers and documentation necessary on the other side of the transaction. Since you will be paying for this on both ends, I would guesstimate that the total cost will probably be in the vicinity of two to three thousand dollars to do this.

If you find out otherwise, it would be good to hear what you learn.


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## Melaleuca (Sep 26, 2020)

Thanks for that info Zovick! That's actually way less than I was expecting, especially since from a quick google it looks like shipping a cat or dog internationally would cost about the same and I don't see why I wouldn't do the same for a tortoise if feasible.


To share the info I've found so far from emailing a couple of different places:

*Ship Your Reptiles*: they don't ship internationally, but were nice and did recommend I reach out to Rob Starzman at Designer Ball Pythons.

*Rob Starzman at Designer Ball Pythons*: using an exporter (like him) would cost $1000 to CAN and $1900 to UK. I would just have to ship the tortoise to him and have an importer prepared to receive the tortoise at the destination country. There would be additional costs for duties and charges at customs at either location. I'm guessing there would be an additional fee for the importer in the receiving country as well.


Spoiler: Costs breakdown



Vet certificate 75
USDA endorsement 38
Postage for endorsement (overnight and back to me) 50
Customer broker 350
F&W inspection 279
Edecs 100
TSA check in 250
Cites for appendix 2 250.00 (takes roughly 2 months on anything but regius)
Freight TBD


He recommends that if attempting this oneself to apply for licenses at least 6 months in advance and then permits usually take 2 months after that (but covid may affect times).

*Reptile express*: wanted to know the exact species of a redfoot (_there's only one as far as I know?_) and said they don't ship CITES animals. 

Special mention
Maro2Bear: contact the embassy in the destination location and find out from transportation folks what would be the best method. 

I'm pretty hammered with other things going on at the moment but I'll update this if I find out more in case it's helpful for others.


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