# Tortarium



## Madkins007 (Aug 31, 2010)

So, 4 beautiful baby Cherry-head Red-foots (thanks again to Allegra!), and I've been keeping them in a nice, but only translucent tub. Such pretty things should be displayed, so I built a 'Tortarium' from scratch just for them.

(moderator note: scroll down to post #15 for the link to the pictures)






(link )

Goals: low cost, lightweight, waterproof at least on the bottom 4", reasonably attractive or unobtrusive, easy to clean and maintain, and should do as much of the heating, lighting, and humidity as possible by itself. It should also be about 20"x48" to fit on a side table in the living room.

I took some 1/2" MDF board and ripped it to size. I carpet taped on some sheet plastic I had around, then screwed some 3/16" thick polycarbonate (Lexan) to both ends. (This was going to be some more MDF board, but I found the Lexan and decided to go with transparency.) I added some thinner 'hardware store' polycarbonate for the front and back. Glued/caulked the seams, and added a reinforcement at the top middle.





(link )

I got some heating cable from Big Apple Herps and secured it to the bottom, leaving an end free. The Lexan let me drill a small hole right in a side to let the thin cable slip through. Background heating- accomplished! Since the cables will also heat the water in the bottom of the habitat, humidity is mostly done as well. Most of the lighting will be the sunlight in the window. Check.





(link View across the habitat from the "Cork Corners" side)

A couple inches of cypress- making a big hill on the cool end and we are ready for decor. I parked a half-log hide in the cool end, propped up a piece of bark over the opening near the wall and buried the whole thing to make a biggish underground cool hide, and buried to potted plants to either side, and added pillow (frog) moss to the hillside. On the warm end is the ceramic heat emitter and a big chunk of cork bark that was originally going to be some wall decoration.





(link "Fern Hill" side- you can see the tunnel opening.)

Sink a big water dish in about the middle, add torts and hermit crabs, and everyone is happy.

I need more plants (I'm planning an internal sight-barrier out of some plants) and a new feeding tile, but I am really happy with it so far. The hermit crabs are in the 'cool hide', and one of the torts is watching me type from a corner of the habitat. So far no one seems stressed by the lack of a visual barrier. I also need to rethink the CHE mount- I was going to screw a bracket to the wood end originally. Oh, and I am getting some cheap acrylic panels for a lid this paycheck as well for the winter.

LOL! Two of the hermit crabs just 'erupted' out of the mulch over the cool hide. How weird!


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## PeanutbuttER (Aug 31, 2010)

The images aren't showing up for me


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## Madkins007 (Aug 31, 2010)

PeanutbuttER said:


> The images aren't showing up for me



Yeah, me neither. I added some direct links while I see what I did wrong.


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## Tropical Torts (Aug 31, 2010)

No pictures


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## Terry Allan Hall (Aug 31, 2010)

What happens when the torts figure out how tasty those hermit crabs are...or was that part of the plan?


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## tortoisenerd (Aug 31, 2010)

Very cool!


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## Madkins007 (Aug 31, 2010)

Terry Allan Hall said:


> What happens when the torts figure out how tasty those hermit crabs are...or was that part of the plan?



I've kept well-armored, nocturnal hermit crabs with my also well-armored diurnal torts for almost a year now with no problems (some tasting but no injuries), and I learned about the idea in the Vinke book "South American Tortoises"- apparently, it is a rather common practice some places.



jrcrist4 said:


> No pictures



Click on the links for now.


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## terryo (Aug 31, 2010)

Mark, I'm so impressed. I can't believe that you made that from scratch....well, yes I can. You did a great job. Oh, and your work bench is so neat and handy looking. Wow. I only cover the back and sides of all my viv's. I like to see what's going on in there and most of the time they are very curious as to what I'm doing too. (my indoor boxies and Pio)


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## jackrat (Aug 31, 2010)

Very impressive Mark! Nice craftmanship all around. Very "jungle" looking. Well done.


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## Madkins007 (Aug 31, 2010)

Thanks! The work bench is my work work bench- my home bench would take an archeological expedition to uncover. I was able to slip in over the weekend to get most of the work done- it was a lot easier with a big old table saw. 

I may try to make it into an instructable, but I did not photo-document every step.


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## Terry Allan Hall (Sep 1, 2010)

Madkins007 said:


> Terry Allan Hall said:
> 
> 
> > What happens when the torts figure out how tasty those hermit crabs are...or was that part of the plan?
> ...





I see...thought you might be supplying your torts w/ entertainment/protein, much like many of us do by planting "edibles" in our enclosures or stocking our aquatic reptiles' water containers w/ minnows/feeder goldfish/snails/etc...

Do the hermit crabs then act as scavengers?


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## Madkins007 (Sep 1, 2010)

Terry Allan Hall said:


> I see...thought you might be supplying your torts w/ entertainment/protein, much like many of us do by planting "edibles" in our enclosures or stocking our aquatic reptiles' water containers w/ minnows/feeder goldfish/snails/etc...
> 
> Do the hermit crabs then act as scavengers?



In earlier habitats I provided worms for soil conditioning and snacks, so I understand where you were coming from. 

I mentioned in another thread (hermit crab update) that since using them, I find fewer wastes than I did without them. Since they operate at night, I cannot quantify how much they actually eat- but that is the theory.


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## chadk (Sep 1, 2010)

Looks like you have the copyright option selected on your photos. If you disable it, you should be able to have the pics shown here...

From the flickr site:
Our members share an incredible amount of amazing work on Flickr. If there is an image you'd like to use, look for the "Request to license" link near the license on the photo page. We've partnered with Getty Images who will review the image, determine if it's a good fit for licensing through them, and work out all the details if so. 

Not all members have this enabled. If you don't see it you can also contact the member directly. As a member of Flickr, you can move your mouse over someone's buddy icon and click the little arrow to open the "person menu." Then select "Send FlickrMail" and compose your message. When you contact a photographer, it's best to include as much info as possible about the photo, yourself, and how you want to use the photo.


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## allegraf (Sep 2, 2010)

I can't see the pictures! What a tease!


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## Madkins007 (Sep 2, 2010)

Hmmmm... I may need to try a different photo host or something. I cannot find how to remove the copyright without paying. The links are not working either?

See if this works: http://www.flickr.com/photos/madkins007/ Look in the set labeled "Tortarium".


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## terryo (Sep 2, 2010)

We're in the process of making Pio a bigger viv, and I'm loving your tortarium. Did you get the lid yet, and if so how will you put the lights or heat emitter on there? (or did I miss that somewhere?)


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## DeanS (Sep 2, 2010)

Please people...just use tinypic.com...it's so much easier...and NO pesky links


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## terryo (Sep 2, 2010)

I'm looking at the picture, and wondering.....did you put the substrate right on top of the heating coils?


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## allegraf (Sep 2, 2010)

That looks amazing! I see that one of the hatchlings is loving the plants!


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## Madkins007 (Sep 2, 2010)

TerryO- Yes, the substrate is in contact with the heating cable. I trialed the cable for some time before I trusted it in this situation and a.) it never got too hot to touch, even where it overlapped, and b.) water did not affect it. (Legaleze comment- these were my results, your situation may vary. Does not imply a guarantee by me in any way. Can you tell one of my kids just passed the bar exam!!  )

I have a thermostat set so the hottest point is under the cork bark at 85-87F, and 80-82 on most of the rest of the surface- confirmed with a digital thermometer. I WOULD NOT do this without a decent thermostat, though! (I don't remember if I mentioned the thermostat in the first post.)

A lamp is hung over the 'Cork Corners' end as well. I'll try to post a photo of that later. I can use a CHE, plain bulb, sun lamp, etc. depending on what I need. Right now, I am using a UVB/heat bulb for about 3 hours a day for the UVB element since it does not pass the glass. Otherwise, the cables are doing the heating and the room windows are doing the lighting. 

As things cool and darken into the fall, I will add hours to the light and put on the lids- which are just 2 pieces of 24"x24" polycarbonate with 2" heated and bent down on two sides. One of them will have a hole cut into it big enough for the lamp.

Right now, though, the air in there is warm and humid, so everyone seems happy.

Its been interesting... right about the time the torts go to bed, the hermit crabs come out to play! Monday night, 1st night running, I had the temp probe draped in the habitat instead of passing through a hole like the heating cable does, and the crabs kept crawling up it and into the lamp housing! I fixed it so now there is nothing in there to climb like that so I will be mounting a piece of driftwood or cactus skeleton in their for them to climb.


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## Jacqui (Sep 5, 2010)

It's wonderful! I do have just one tiny question... when can I bring my truck to Omaha to pick up mine?


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## terryo (Sep 5, 2010)

After I pick up mine!


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## Madkins007 (Sep 26, 2010)

Some new pics- I've added the cover, rigged up a support for lighting, tweaked the plantings, etc.

You can see the new photos at the same link as earlier- http://www.flickr.com/photos/madkins007/sets/72157624738958833/

I had planned on the lids since the beginning. They are 3 pieces of Lexan, with the edges bent to fit over the existing sides as invisibly and strongly as possible.

As usual, when you make a change, the little guys are all over it- checking everything out, etc. I am quite happy with it- although the condensation makes it hard to see every corner.

The only downside so far- I seem to have picked up ants- little, fast moving ants. 

Making them for others? It was not hard, and not massively expensive, but the sheer size makes it hard to have enough room to do it and to move it much. (It is light enough, just not real strong that way.)


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## dreadyA (Sep 26, 2010)

Looking good, Madkins!


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## heyprettyrave (Sep 28, 2010)

this is awesome. the hermit crab thing is really cool, and i've been wanting a hermit crab too. so if i got one and put it in the same enclosure with my redfoot, would i have to provide it with care? or would it beable to survive on its own?


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## Madkins007 (Sep 28, 2010)

heyprettyrave said:


> this is awesome. the hermit crab thing is really cool, and i've been wanting a hermit crab too. so if i got one and put it in the same enclosure with my redfoot, would i have to provide it with care? or would it beable to survive on its own?



1. Make sure it cannot climb out.
2. Make sure it has its own hiding places, or places it can go to get away from the tortoises (mine often climb into the plant pots)
3. I think it is important that there be plenty of space overall so the torts and crabs are not all forced too closely together.
4. Otherwise- I don't do anything special for them! 

In fact, when the old herd went outside, I had hermit crabs in the indoor habitat, and just plain forgot about them. After a few months of no food, no water, no moisture, no nothing, I was tearing out the old habitat and found the three of the crabs alive and well skittering in the pile of trash I was making!


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## heyprettyrave (Sep 28, 2010)

awesome because ive wanted one, do you think it could climb out via plant?


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## Terry Allan Hall (Sep 28, 2010)

Madkins007 said:


> heyprettyrave said:
> 
> 
> > this is awesome. the hermit crab thing is really cool, and i've been wanting a hermit crab too. so if i got one and put it in the same enclosure with my redfoot, would i have to provide it with care? or would it beable to survive on its own?
> ...



You forgot to feed/water your hermit crabs? How many did you start out with, with only 3 survivers?


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## heyprettyrave (Sep 29, 2010)

i was actually wondering about this, do i need to feed the crab its own food?


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## Madkins007 (Sep 29, 2010)

Terry Allen- I started with three, all three survived- and are still doing great! (Well, 2 are, 1 escaped a couple weeks ago and we have not found it! It may have been buried in the pot of a plant we took out of the habitat.)

Rave- they eat mostly what the torts leave, and the tort droppings. I have a jar of Hermit Crab food, but the torts seem more interested in it than the crabs are.

Also, yes, they can escape by climbing a plant- as long as the plant holds their weight. They are really, really good at getting out if they have a chance.


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## Madkins007 (Nov 2, 2010)

NOVEMBER UPDATE

Lighting and heat-
- Now have a UVB-MVB bulb on a 6 hour timer for spot heat and UVB
- Plain cool-white compact fluorescent on a 13 hour timer for overall light with a blue tint to balance the yellow-red of the MVB.
- Small CHE that is mostly unplugged even though temps in the room get to the low 60's often
- Undersoil cables still working great!

Hides- 
- I just built a hide the width of the Tortarium (20") from chunks of cork bark I pinned and glued together with a goal of replicating a hollow log. The space under it has a lining of cypress and some damp sphagnum stuffed inside. The humidity of the habitat is now helping keep the moss lightly damp.
- All of my live frog moss is on top of the 'log' to help keep it moist underneath.
- Part of the space under the 'log' does not have heating cables underneath, so is a bit cooler for better thermoregulation
- Coming off the log along the back wall is a long mound of cypress that I've hollowed out, stuffed lightly with moss, and covered with bark to make a simulated burrow. There is a half-log opening, but almost everyone makes their own holes and access points.
- Similar hides are in two other corners as well, even though most of the time they are in the log lately.

Plants & Critters:
- Lace fern died, probably from too much water. (I had some frog moss in the pot and probably overwatered the fern keeping the moss green.
- One of the hermit crabs was missing, found in a deep pile of cypress and thought it was dead- shell looked empty. Set it to a side in the habitat, and dang if it is not walking around a few hours later.
- Small ants are gone, but occasionally see one really big ant. 

I'm pretty happy with the way things are going in there! It is not as pretty as Terry O's place, but it is a dang site better than I used to provide young'uns. About the only big change coming will be making a rolling table for it so I can park it in a warmer room for the winter, or outside for easier cleaning.


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## Balboa (Nov 2, 2010)

Awesome!
pics? I like the sound of this "log"!


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## PeanutbuttER (Nov 3, 2010)

What a great thread. The tortarium looks amazing! I wish you'd taken pictures of how you made it. Very nice.

I'm glad to hear the cables are working so well. It sounds like that's providing much of the heat they need.


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## Madkins007 (Nov 3, 2010)

Madkins007 said:


> Hmmmm... I may need to try a different photo host or something. I cannot find how to remove the copyright without paying. The links are not working either?
> 
> See if this works: http://www.flickr.com/photos/madkins007/ Look in the set labeled "Tortarium".





Thanks to whoever did this!!!!



PeanutbuttER said:


> What a great thread. The tortarium looks amazing! I wish you'd taken pictures of how you made it. Very nice.
> 
> I'm glad to hear the cables are working so well. It sounds like that's providing much of the heat they need.



There is a photo of the basic tank sitting on my work bench in the collection. I took some photos during assembly but I really did not feel they added much- it really is nothing more than a slab of MDF board for the base, 2 end pieces of thicker Lexan plastic (although before I found the Lexan, they were going to be more MDF), and two big sheets of thin Lexan fom Home Depot for the front and back. I screwed all the plastic to the MDF base, and then screwed and glued the front and back pieces to the sides.

I laid a piece of plastic sheet material on the bottom and silicone caulked all the seams.

In the photo, the heating cable is taped to the plastic base. That has been changed to using a wire mesh piece to hold the cables instead.

The lids are three pieces that I used a heat gun to bend two sides down on to fit over the top, and I cut two big half-circles out of each for the heating lamps.

The lighting frame is 3 pieces of L-shaped aluminum stock that I bolted to the sides and at the top corners, then drilled holes for S-hooks to hang the lamps from.

I made most of it up as I went, measuring and cutting to fit. A carpenter would laugh at the slight mis-fits I have in several places, but it looks good, and is lightweight enough I can empty and move it by myself. (All the water in the substrate is probably the heaviest thing of all.)

If you want, I can try to write up a more step-by-step process- I was thinking about trying to make it an Instructable.com project for a bit there.


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## PeanutbuttER (Nov 3, 2010)

I would love a more step-by-step process cause this looks so great. I will be building a new enclosure for my hatchling here in not too soon (she's getting bigger!!!) and this looks like it would work great.

May I ask why you chose to use Lexan? I'm not super familiar with it. Is it any different from say plexiglass? Are there any benefits from it compared to actual glass?

Thanks!


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## Madkins007 (Nov 3, 2010)

PeanutbuttER said:


> I would love a more step-by-step process cause this looks so great. I will be building a new enclosure for my hatchling here in not too soon (she's getting bigger!!!) and this looks like it would work great.
> 
> May I ask why you chose to use Lexan? I'm not super familiar with it. Is it any different from say plexiglass? Are there any benefits from it compared to actual glass?
> 
> Thanks!



Polycarbonate (Lexan is a brand name) works a lot like hardboard or something- you can cut it, drill it, shape it, sand it, etc. whereas acrylic is so much more brittle. Lexan scratches more easily than acrylic but it is remarkably tough- almost unbreakable in some formulations. 

It is a lot lighter than glass, and, of course, a lot tougher.


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