# The importance of DEEP shade



## biochemnerd808

Ok, folks, we need to talk about SHADE.





You have probably (hopefully) heard tortoise keepers talking about the fact that tortoises need "DEEP SHADE" to retreat into on a hot Summer day (really any day that has air temps above 80 degrees).

What do we mean by "deep shade?" - this is NOT slapping a board across the tortoise enclosure, nor does a little house do the trick. To create DEEP shade, you have to use the *AND* principal. So, for example, deep shade would be under a tree, AND inside a burrow. Or under an umbrella (or shade cloth) AND under a dense bush. Under a dense bush AND inside a deep burrow. Only there can a significantly cooler environment be achieved that our tortoises need to be comfortable on a hot day (unless you have a sulcata who dug a tunnel that goes 4ft under the soil surface).

Not convinced? If you have a temp gun, I would love it if you would go outside, and measure the ground temperature in a nice shady spot, and then in the sun. There can be a temperature difference of 60 degrees! (e.g. the deep shade under our tree is a nice balmy 80 degrees... the dappled shade under a bush is 90, and the flat rocks in the tortoise enclosure measured 140 degrees F before I hosed them down! In comparison, in the burrow that is behind the dense bush, covered in 10 inches of soil, and has been dug out pretty deep by the tortoises, it is 65-70 degrees. Guess where the tortoises are? Except for the 2 crazy ones who are out first thing in the morning, and don't seem to mind the sun (they are also the lightest colored ones), they are all in the burrows right now.





While we are talking about shade and sun - PLEASE do NOT soak your tortoise in the sunshine when it is warm outside - at least not without supervision! Just this year, I have heard of 2 tortoises that died during their soaks, simply because the owner placed the soaking dish in the sun, and then walked away for 30 minutes. A tortoise in a soaking bin has no place to go. If it is overheating, it can't hide, and sitting in 1 inch of cool water certainly won't protect the top of its shell.

Please be sure to provide DEEP shade for your tortoise when it is outside - that's TWO kinds of shade nested inside each other, as explained above. If your tortoise constantly hides during outdoor time, chances are that you might not be providing enough shade in the enclosure. 

Let's prevent unnecessary tortoise death, and make sure that a tortoise doesn't cook in their outdoor enclosure or during their soak!


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## Tom

I wish more experienced keepers did helpful posts like this. Great post Katie. Thank you.


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## ZEROPILOT

Thanks for posting about water temps. 
Standing water, especially in a metal pan can get hot enough to make tortoise soup.


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## biochemnerd808

ZEROPILOT said:


> Thanks for posting about water temps.
> Standing water, especially in a metal pan can get hot enough to make tortoise soup.



Yep, I showed my kids this, but using some rounded tortoise-shaped rocks. We set up the (black plastic) soaking tub with 1" of water, and placed a rock in it. We took temps at regular intervals. It took 12 minutes to reach a deathly temperature. The kids will inherit the tortoises some day... so I wanted to make sure they know!


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## Maro2Bear

Katie, thanks for the informative posting. I had our 1 year 2mos old Sully outside today in the nice hot sun and high humidity. He had several fully shaded areas, some full sun, and some inbetween. I still used our temp gun every 30-45 mins on him just to make sure he was protected.


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## Tort Love

biochemnerd808 said:


> Ok, folks, we need to talk about SHADE.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You have probably (hopefully) heard tortoise keepers talking about the fact that tortoises need "DEEP SHADE" to retreat into on a hot Summer day (really any day that has air temps above 80 degrees).
> 
> What do we mean by "deep shade?" - this is NOT slapping a board across the tortoise enclosure, nor does a little house do the trick. To create DEEP shade, you have to use the *AND* principal. So, for example, deep shade would be under a tree, AND inside a burrow. Or under an umbrella (or shade cloth) AND under a dense bush. Under a dense bush AND inside a deep burrow. Only there can a significantly cooler environment be achieved that our tortoises need to be comfortable on a hot day (unless you have a sulcata who dug a tunnel that goes 4ft under the soil surface).
> 
> Not convinced? If you have a temp gun, I would love it if you would go outside, and measure the ground temperature in a nice shady spot, and then in the sun. There can be a temperature difference of 60 degrees! (e.g. the deep shade under our tree is a nice balmy 80 degrees... the dappled shade under a bush is 90, and the flat rocks in the tortoise enclosure measured 140 degrees F before I hosed them down! In comparison, in the burrow that is behind the dense bush, covered in 10 inches of soil, and has been dug out pretty deep by the tortoises, it is 65-70 degrees. Guess where the tortoises are? Except for the 2 crazy ones who are out first thing in the morning, and don't seem to mind the sun (they are also the lightest colored ones), they are all in the burrows right now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While we are talking about shade and sun - PLEASE do NOT soak your tortoise in the sunshine when it is warm outside - at least not without supervision! Just this year, I have heard of 2 tortoises that died during their soaks, simply because the owner placed the soaking dish in the sun, and then walked away for 30 minutes. A tortoise in a soaking bin has no place to go. If it is overheating, it can't hide, and sitting in 1 inch of cool water certainly won't protect the top of its shell.
> 
> Please be sure to provide DEEP shade for your tortoise when it is outside - that's TWO kinds of shade nested inside each other, as explained above. If your tortoise constantly hides during outdoor time, chances are that you might not be providing enough shade in the enclosure.
> 
> Let's prevent unnecessary tortoise death, and make sure that a tortoise doesn't cook in their outdoor enclosure or during their soak!


This is Awsome thank you


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## wellington

Great thread. Needs to be placed as a sticky. Thanks for sharing this.


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## DawnH

Fantastic post!! I have "triple" deep shade for Tuleo and it is a nice 81 degrees while outside temps are 100+. I mean it, walking around with a temp gun really gives you some perspective!!


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## Carol S

Fantastic post. Thanks for sharing this very valuable information.


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## Tort Love

So this is what I did for tortellini and Mumbai when they go in there hut they wAlk down in there can it has dirt in it they think they are digging but they can't go real far


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## christinaland128

Great thread! Thank so much!


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## Team Gomberg

Wonderfully worded. Great job explaining this and thanks for the thread!


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## stojanovski92113

Very informative. Thanks for sharing.


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## shrrywood

Thanks this is very helpful as I am constructing my outdoor enclosure right now. Double the shade we shall have.


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## Anyfoot

biochemnerd808 said:


> Ok, folks, we need to talk about SHADE.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You have probably (hopefully) heard tortoise keepers talking about the fact that tortoises need "DEEP SHADE" to retreat into on a hot Summer day (really any day that has air temps above 80 degrees).
> 
> What do we mean by "deep shade?" - this is NOT slapping a board across the tortoise enclosure, nor does a little house do the trick. To create DEEP shade, you have to use the *AND* principal. So, for example, deep shade would be under a tree, AND inside a burrow. Or under an umbrella (or shade cloth) AND under a dense bush. Under a dense bush AND inside a deep burrow. Only there can a significantly cooler environment be achieved that our tortoises need to be comfortable on a hot day (unless you have a sulcata who dug a tunnel that goes 4ft under the soil surface).
> 
> Not convinced? If you have a temp gun, I would love it if you would go outside, and measure the ground temperature in a nice shady spot, and then in the sun. There can be a temperature difference of 60 degrees! (e.g. the deep shade under our tree is a nice balmy 80 degrees... the dappled shade under a bush is 90, and the flat rocks in the tortoise enclosure measured 140 degrees F before I hosed them down! In comparison, in the burrow that is behind the dense bush, covered in 10 inches of soil, and has been dug out pretty deep by the tortoises, it is 65-70 degrees. Guess where the tortoises are? Except for the 2 crazy ones who are out first thing in the morning, and don't seem to mind the sun (they are also the lightest colored ones), they are all in the burrows right now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While we are talking about shade and sun - PLEASE do NOT soak your tortoise in the sunshine when it is warm outside - at least not without supervision! Just this year, I have heard of 2 tortoises that died during their soaks, simply because the owner placed the soaking dish in the sun, and then walked away for 30 minutes. A tortoise in a soaking bin has no place to go. If it is overheating, it can't hide, and sitting in 1 inch of cool water certainly won't protect the top of its shell.
> 
> Please be sure to provide DEEP shade for your tortoise when it is outside - that's TWO kinds of shade nested inside each other, as explained above. If your tortoise constantly hides during outdoor time, chances are that you might not be providing enough shade in the enclosure.
> 
> Let's prevent unnecessary tortoise death, and make sure that a tortoise doesn't cook in their outdoor enclosure or during their soak!


That was a very useful and an informative thread. Thank you.


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## Tidgy's Dad

Excellent, well thought out and clear thread.
Thank you very much.


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## Amanda Payton

Deep shade examples



https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ighpcoy-mbC8AZZD-TDs5HgyKI62BYHC/view?usp=drivesdk


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## Karen(pebbles)

Thanks for sharing


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## TaraL

DawnH said:


> Fantastic post!! I have "triple" deep shade for Tuleo and it is a nice 81 degrees while outside temps are 100+. I mean it, walking around with a temp gun really gives you some perspective!!


I would love to know what your "triple" deep shade consists of


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## biochemnerd808

TaraL said:


> I would love to know what your "triple" deep shade consists of


It could be a hung shade cloth, a bush under that, and a hide under the bush e.g.


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