# rabbit pellets?



## russianhenry

Ok so I went to look at another pet shop today for a Russian and the people in there were using rabbit pellets(food) as substrate. I thought that was a little weird so I asked the guy and he said that when he kept them on other substrates they got gut impaction. He said that they can burrow in this and if they accidentally eat it then its ok. Im thinking on getting it, I mean it makes sense. Just thought I would ask first though, still a newbie. Any comments?


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## Maggie Cummings

Back in the dark ages I kept my tortoises on pellets. Then we discovered there was a danger in causing damage to growing legs as the stuff is hard to walk on. And now we know our tortoises need humidity and you can't get pellets wet. So, no I don't recommend them any more...cypress mulch or bed a beast both make great substrate and if you feed your animal correctly he doesn't eat it and there is only minimal danger of impaction...


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## russianhenry

Alright thanks alot. I will probably stick with cypress mulch then.


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## PeanutbuttER

Don't you just love how knowledgeable pet store workers are


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## dmmj

also rabbit pellets turn to mush instantly when exposed to water, so you could not really offer them water, they mold easy, high in protein (good for rabbits) bad for tortoises, I am amazed that pet stores are still out there saying this, even reptile pet stores do this, makes no sense to me.


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## Tom

I don't like rabbit pellets for all the above reasons AND because as they break down they get VERY dusty.


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## tortoises101

They may even cause shell rot if wet...also pretty dehydrating, considering the amount of dust in them. Definitely a no-no for all tortoises.


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## envenomedcky

I was using rabbit pellets for about a week and switched back to cypress mulch with a bit of sphagnum moss on top. My tortoise loves it. She can still walk around fine and because the cypress isn't too exposed, there should be an even smaller chance of impaction.


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## Jessicap

russianhenry said:


> Ok so I went to look at another pet shop today for a Russian and the people in there were using rabbit pellets(food) as substrate. I thought that was a little weird so I asked the guy and he said that when he kept them on other substrates they got gut impaction. He said that they can burrow in this and if they accidentally eat it then its ok. Im thinking on getting it, I mean it makes sense. Just thought I would ask first though, still a newbie. Any comments?



How do you keep it moist without it making a huge mess? Also are you sure they are rabbit pellets or alfalfa pellet bedding? I think rabbit pellets have vitamins and possible other ingredients in that I would be concerned with. I know many on here including myself use cypress mulch with sphagnum moss in the hide and a large flat stone feeding area. I think alfalfa is also high in protien and protien should be limited in their diet. JMO.


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## paludarium

Hi all,

I've been feeding my tortoises with different rabbits pellets for at least 3 years, of course I always moisten the pellets before feeding. Some of the tortoises keepers in Chinese societies followed me, all without any problem.

Erich


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## wrmitchell22

I know the rabbit pellets I feed my rabbit are made specificly for rabbit nutrition, although both rabbits and tortoises are grazers, one being a mammal and one being a reptile, they probably have very different needs.



wrmitchell22 said:


> I know the rabbit pellets I feed my rabbit are made specificly for rabbit nutrition, although both rabbits and tortoises are grazers, one being a mammal and one being a reptile, they probably have very different needs.



So here is what I found
Description
MazuriÂ® Rabbit Diet with Timothy is a balanced timothy hay-based diet designed for all life stages of rabbits.
Features and Benefits
ï‚· Nutritionally complete - Not necessary to supplement with vitamins or minerals.
ï‚· Complete life-cycle diet.
ï‚·
Contains a high level of fiber to maintain good digestive tract health.
ï‚·
Contains probiotics - Lactobacillus and Enterococcus sp. to promote gastrointestinal health.
ï‚·
Contains natural vitamin E.
ï‚·
Contains flaxseed â€“ source of omega-3 fatty acids
ï‚·
Contains yucca shidigera - shown to reduce aerosol ammonia in animal facilities.
P
roduct Form Catalog #
ï‚· 1/8â€ pellet.
o 5M15 - 5 lb bag Catalog #0039440
o
530Q - 25 lb bag Catalog #0043945
G
uaranteed Analysis
CRUDE PROTEIN (MIN) 14.0% CRUDE FAT (MIN) 1.5% CRUDE FIBER (MAX) 22.0% CALCIUM (CA) (MIN) 0.65% CALCIUM (CA) (MAX) 1.15% PHOSPHORUS (P) (MIN) 0.50% SALT (MIN) 0.75% SALT (MAX) 1.25% VITAMIN A (MIN) 8000 IU/LB VITAMIN E (MIN) 30 IU/LB MOISTURE (MAX) 12.0% ASH (MAX) 9.0%
Ingredients
DEHYDRATED TIMOTHY, GROUND SOYBEAN HULLS, WHEAT MIDDLINGS, DEHULLED SOYBEAN MEAL, GROUND OAT HULLS, CANE MOLASSES, GROUND BEET PULP, FLAXSEED, LIGNIN SULFONATE, SOYBEAN OIL, SALT, CALCIUM CARBONATE, DICALCIUM PHOSPHATE, CHOLINE CHLORIDE, DL-METHIONINE, BREWERS DRIED YEAST, DRIED YUCCA SHIDIGERA EXTRACT, MAGNESIUM OXIDE, VITAMIN A ACETATE, FOLIC ACID, CHOLECALCIFEROL, PYRIDOXINE HYDROCHLORIDE, D-ALPHA TOCOPHERYL ACETATE, CALCIUM PANTOTHENATE, NICOTINIC ACID, RIBOFLAVIN, DRIED LACTOBACILLUS ACIDOPHILUS FERMENATION PRODUCT, DRIED ENTEROCOCCUS FAECIUM FERMENTATION PRODUCT, VITAMIN B-12 SUPPLEMENT, MANGANOUS OXIDE, ZINC OXIDE, FERROUS CARBONATE, COPPER SULFATE, ZINC SULFATE, CALCIUM IODATE, COBALT CARBONATE, SODIUM SELENITE.

MazuriÂ® Tortoise Diet 5M21/5E06
Description
MazuriÂ® Tortoise Diet is a high fiber diet designed for dry land herbivorous tortoises such as gophers and sulcata tortoises and Galapagos tortoises. This diet may be used with other herbivorous reptiles as well.
Features and Benefits
ï‚·
High fiber level.
ï‚·
Contains natural vitamin E.
ï‚·
Extruded pellet form - Minimizes wastage and creates a more natural feeding environment.
ï‚·
Complete nutrition - No vitamin or mineral supplementation needed.
ï‚·
Natural source antioxidants â€“ no ethoxyquin.
Product Form
ï‚·
Extruded pellet: 1/2" x 3/4" length.
5M21: 25 lb. net weight paper sack. Catalog #0001474
5E06: 1.0 lb. resealable poly bag. Catalog #0065161
Guaranteed Analysis
Crude protein not less than.......................15.0%
Crude fat not less than................................3.0%
Crude fiber not more than.........................18.0%
Calcium (Ca) not less than........................0.95%
Calcium (Ca) not more than......................1.45%
Phosphorus (P) not less than....................0.60%
Sodium (Na) not more than.......................0.60%
Sodium (Na) not less than.........................0.10%
Vitamin E not less than ........................330 IU/lb
Ingredients
Ground soybean hulls, ground corn, ground oats, dehulled soybean meal, wheat middlings, cane molasses, dehydrated alfalfa meal, wheat germ, soybean oil, dicalcium phosphate, monocalcium phosphate, brewers dried yeast, calcium carbonate, salt, DL-methionine, choline chloride, menadione dimethylpyrimidinol bisulfite (vitamin K), pyridoxine hydrochloride, d-alpha tocopheryl acetate (natural source vitamin E), cholecalciferol (vitamin D3), biotin, L-lysine, tocopherols (a preservative), calcium pantothenate, vitamin A acetate, riboflavin, folic acid, nicotinic acid, thiamin mononitrate, vitamin B12 supplement, manganous oxide, zinc oxide, ferrous carbonate, copper sulfate, zinc sulfate, calcium iodate, cobalt carbonate, sodium selenite.


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## paludarium

wrmitchell22 said:


> MazuriÂ® Rabbit Diet
> Guaranteed Analysis
> CRUDE PROTEIN (MIN) 14.0%
> CRUDE FAT (MIN) 1.5%
> CRUDE FIBER (MAX) 22.0%
> CALCIUM (CA) (MIN) 0.65%
> CALCIUM (CA) (MAX) 1.15%
> PHOSPHORUS (P) (MIN) 0.50%
> SALT (MIN) 0.75%
> SALT (MAX) 1.25%
> VITAMIN A (MIN) 8000 IU/LB
> VITAMIN E (MIN) 30 IU/LB
> MOISTURE (MAX) 12.0%
> ASH (MAX) 9.0%
> 
> MazuriÂ® Tortoise Diet 5M21/5E06
> Guaranteed Analysis
> Crude protein not less than.......................15.0%
> Crude fat not less than................................3.0%
> Crude fiber not more than.........................18.0%
> Calcium (Ca) not less than........................0.95%
> Calcium (Ca) not more than......................1.45%
> Phosphorus (P) not less than....................0.60%
> Sodium (Na) not more than.......................0.60%
> Sodium (Na) not less than.........................0.10%
> Vitamin E not less than ........................330 IU/lb


Hi,

thanks for the guaranteed analyses, it's an excellent example. The rabbit pellets contain less protein, fat and vitamin E, but more fiber and vitamin A. Is that bad or good for the tortoises? I am not sure. But tortoises and rabbits are both hindgut fermenters, I suppose that they also share the same nutrient sources in the habitats. Rabbits pellets were not the only foods that I fed my tortoises, however I never offered them tortoise pellets. Moreover, my tortoise remained healthy and I saw my radiateds mating. 







Erich


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## wrmitchell22

Erich, After I read the analysis, I wondered the same thing, is it okay or not. I really don't know, they are definately more similar than I expected and your torts are gorgeous, so I am not sure what to think? Maybe someone who knows more than I do can enlighten us both


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## lttjun

i also sometimes fed my star tortoise with rabbit pellets, one of them likes it so much but the other one not even interest to even get close


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## Sulcatifornia

> Ingredients
> Ground soybean hulls, ground corn, ground oats, dehulled soybean meal, wheat middlings, cane molasses, dehydrated alfalfa meal, wheat germ, soybean oil, dicalcium phosphate, monocalcium phosphate, brewers dried yeast, calcium carbonate, salt, DL-methionine, choline chloride, menadione dimethylpyrimidinol bisulfite (vitamin K), pyridoxine hydrochloride, d-alpha tocopheryl acetate (natural source vitamin E), cholecalciferol (vitamin D3), biotin, L-lysine, tocopherols (a preservative), calcium pantothenate, vitamin A acetate, riboflavin, folic acid, nicotinic acid, thiamin mononitrate, vitamin B12 supplement, manganous oxide, zinc oxide, ferrous carbonate, copper sulfate, zinc sulfate, calcium iodate, cobalt carbonate, sodium selenite.



The first 7 ingredients alone I feel are not what torts should be eating. Does anyone else find it creepy that all the Mazuri's first ingredients contain government subsidized GMO foods?


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## Laura

the original question wasnt about feeding the pellets, but using it as the substrate..


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## Tccarolina

Sulcatifornia said:


> The first 7 ingredients alone I feel are not what torts should be eating. Does anyone else find it creepy that all the Mazuri's first ingredients contain government subsidized GMO foods?



Somehow, I doubt tortoises care whether their food is subsidized by the government. Or whether it's been genetically modified.
I agree with you on the first 7 ingredients not being ideal though. If I was emptying out the fridge (and happened to have those 7 ingredients in the fridge), they would all go into the trash, not the tortoise pen!

BUT, people everywhere seem to be ecstatic about the observable benefits of mazuri. I'll have to try it on my torts soon.

Steve


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## malp1022

You have to be careful using the advice from pet stores. We were initially told our hindgeback was one type and after I dod a little research I found she was another.


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## Yvonne G

Pet store clerks are usually teenagers who THINK they know what they're talking about, but really don't have much knowledge or experience. Also, pet stores are in business to make money (nothing wrong with that), and they'll try to sell you stuff you don't really need.


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## Baoh

Sulcatifornia said:


> Ingredients
> Ground soybean hulls, ground corn, ground oats, dehulled soybean meal, wheat middlings, cane molasses, dehydrated alfalfa meal, wheat germ, soybean oil, dicalcium phosphate, monocalcium phosphate, brewers dried yeast, calcium carbonate, salt, DL-methionine, choline chloride, menadione dimethylpyrimidinol bisulfite (vitamin K), pyridoxine hydrochloride, d-alpha tocopheryl acetate (natural source vitamin E), cholecalciferol (vitamin D3), biotin, L-lysine, tocopherols (a preservative), calcium pantothenate, vitamin A acetate, riboflavin, folic acid, nicotinic acid, thiamin mononitrate, vitamin B12 supplement, manganous oxide, zinc oxide, ferrous carbonate, copper sulfate, zinc sulfate, calcium iodate, cobalt carbonate, sodium selenite.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The first 7 ingredients alone I feel are not what torts should be eating. Does anyone else find it creepy that all the Mazuri's first ingredients contain government subsidized GMO foods?
Click to expand...


No.


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## russianhenry

I originally wanted to know if it was okay to use rabbit pellets as substrate, NOT to feed them to her. A week after I started this thread I switched her to coconut coir/bark mix and she has been on that since then. Thank you all for answering though.


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## Neltharion

russianhenry said:


> I originally wanted to know if it was okay to use rabbit pellets as substrate, NOT to feed them to her. A week after I started this thread I switched her to coconut coir/bark mix and she has been on that since then. Thank you all for answering though.



Your thread was hijacked . Glad to hear you went with a more suitable substrate.


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