# Tortoise intelligence



## Atlas.thetortoise (Mar 7, 2018)

I’ve always wondered if there’s an intellectual difference amongst tortoise species. In other words, is one species of tortoise more intelligent than the other? 

Sort of like how tortoise “personalities” vary from one species to another. 

What are your thoughts?


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## orv (Mar 7, 2018)

It is clear to me, after observing our CDTs for a number of years, that they are creatures of repetitive behavior, in that they live lives of routine (but so do I, for the most part, hmmm), doing the same thing on a daily basis as long as the ambient temperatures remain consistent. Their behavior does change in relationship to the seasons. They also respond to us as presenters of food, or to us should we invade their habitat. How much intelligence does this represent? I don't know, clearly not as much as my dog, but probably more than myself. What can I say? I do not have first hand experience with any tortoises other than our CDTs.


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## ALDABRAMAN (Mar 9, 2018)

orv said:


> It is clear to me, they are creatures of repetitive behavior



~ We have been working with several species for over thirty years and basically agree with this members opinion.


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## TammyJ (Mar 9, 2018)

....and this repetitive behaviour basically ensures their survival and reproduction.
Just like us. Hmmmmmmm. Kind of.


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## orv (Mar 18, 2018)

You know, my wife expects certain things of me, and I of her. After 48 years of marriage and interacting. . . we just know things. They don't necessarily require intelligence. My wife would give a harty amen to that. Intelligence requires the ability to reason beyond simple cognitive behaviors. The wonderful pictures ALDABRAMAN posts seem to portray love, but although our tortoises to seem to enjoy interacting with us, I'm pretty sure that it isn't love. Love requires the ability and desire to intercede on the part of one for another without the expectation of anything in return. Tortoises are not capable of this sort of display. I realize that I've gotten off the path toward intelligence, but the ability to show love requires some level of intelligence beyond the level of hormonal response. The line between instinct and intelligence may be a fine one, but to the best of my intellect, the ability to truly love may be the deciding factor.


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## TammyJ (Mar 21, 2018)

orv said:


> You know, my wife expects certain things of me, and I of her. After 48 years of marriage and interacting. . . we just know things. They don't necessarily require intelligence. My wife would give a harty amen to that. Intelligence requires the ability to reason beyond simple cognitive behaviors. The wonderful pictures ALDABRAMAN posts seem to portray love, but although our tortoises to seem to enjoy interacting with us, I'm pretty sure that it isn't love. Love requires the ability and desire to intercede on the part of one for another without the expectation of anything in return. Tortoises are not capable of this sort of display. I realize that I've gotten off the path toward intelligence, but the ability to show love requires some level of intelligence beyond the level of hormonal response. The line between instinct and intelligence may be a fine one, but to the best of my intellect, the ability to truly love may be the deciding factor.


Love is often really another word for "need" and our pets generally "need" us and we like to take it as love! Naturally.
I agree with what you said! And I like how you put it.


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## Tom (Mar 21, 2018)

TammyJ said:


> Love is often really another word for "need" and our pets generally "need" us and we like to take it as love! Naturally.
> I agree with what you said! And I like how you put it.


I don't think our tortoises need "us" in particular. They just need someone or something to drop food in and keep their water relatively clean. Maybe change a bulb as needed. I don't think they care one bit who or what drops the food into their enclosure. An automated robot could do it. This is why I don't call it love. Anyone can go drop food in front of my tortoises and their reaction is the same. They eat it.


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## TammyJ (Mar 21, 2018)

Tom said:


> I don't think our tortoises need "us" in particular. They just need someone or something to drop food in and keep their water relatively clean. Maybe change a bulb as needed. I don't think they care one bit who or what drops the food into their enclosure. An automated robot could do it. This is why I don't call it love. Anyone can go drop food in front of my tortoises and their reaction is the same. They eat it.


Right Tom. I said our pets "generally need us" and we "like to take it as love". I don't think they "love" us either - not the reptiles anyway.
But they do need us, or whatever represents care and food to them. And some of them can and do recognise our voices and make the association with food.


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## orv (Mar 24, 2018)

Tom said:


> I don't think our tortoises need "us" in particular. They just need someone or something to drop food in and keep their water relatively clean. Maybe change a bulb as needed. I don't think they care one bit who or what drops the food into their enclosure. An automated robot could do it. This is why I don't call it love. Anyone can go drop food in front of my tortoises and their reaction is the same. They eat it.


Tom, my wife and I just returned yesterday following a four day trip. As I went over to our tortoise enclosure, our male CDT older female both came charging over. The neighbor who had been caring for them during our absence, as she has been for years, was shagrinned that they wouldn't come to her that way. I wasn't bringing food over as yet, but here they came. Perhaps voice recognition? I don't know. It isn't love, but there seems to be some sort of bond.


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## ALDABRAMAN (Mar 29, 2018)

orv said:


> but there seems to be some sort of bond.


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## orv (Mar 29, 2018)

ALDABRAMAN said:


>


 Oh yea . . . that's what I'm talking about.


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## Cheryl Hills (Mar 30, 2018)

How old is this tort?


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## ALDABRAMAN (Mar 31, 2018)

orv said:


> Oh yea . . . that's what I'm talking about.


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## spacercaser (Mar 31, 2018)

orv said:


> Tom, my wife and I just returned yesterday following a four day trip. As I went over to our tortoise enclosure, our male CDT older female both came charging over. The neighbor who had been caring for them during our absence, as she has been for years, was shagrinned that they wouldn't come to her that way. I wasn't bringing food over as yet, but here they came. Perhaps voice recognition? I don't know. It isn't love, but there seems to be some sort of bond.



The Galapagos tortoises I worked with for about two years seemed to recognize me when I walked by the guest area, they usually ignore guests. One of my geckos tends to wake up and come out to look at me when I get home from work and start talking. According to my family he ignores other voices (and that might be true since he doesn’t come out if I’m quiet). I think it’s more that reptiles recognize their primary caretaker(s) and associate them with getting food, or possibly with interesting things happening (that gecko likes to watch tv and people moving around as long as they’re not too close to him).


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## orv (Mar 31, 2018)

spacercaser said:


> The Galapagos tortoises I worked with for about two years seemed to recognize me when I walked by the guest area, they usually ignore guests. One of my geckos tends to wake up and come out to look at me when I get home from work and start talking. According to my family he ignores other voices (and that might be true since he doesn’t come out if I’m quiet). I think it’s more that reptiles recognize their primary caretaker(s) and associate them with getting food, or possibly with interesting things happening (that gecko likes to watch tv and people moving around as long as they’re not too close to him).


 Whether its for food, attention, or something else, those tortoises we've cared for longest seem to recognize us and come over to where we are. Visitors are frequently ignored, even if they come bearing gifts of food. Ahhh. . . but a rose or gazania in the hands of my self or my wife brings them a-running.


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## TammyJ (Apr 3, 2018)

ALDABRAMAN said:


>


I can't see the video, it says it is unavailable.


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## ALDABRAMAN (Apr 6, 2018)

TammyJ said:


> I can't see the video, it says it is unavailable.


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## TammyJ (Apr 6, 2018)

ALDABRAMAN said:


>


Thank you That's just awesome.


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## TammyJ (Apr 6, 2018)

TammyJ said:


> Right Tom. I said our pets "generally need us" and we "like to take it as love". I don't think they "love" us either - not the reptiles anyway.
> But they do need us, or whatever represents care and food to them. And some of them can and do recognise our voices and make the association with food.


Tammy, what are you talking about? Can you still say you don't think they "love" us after you just watched that video with the human and the obviousy enthralled aldabra??? Of course not!!!


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## ALDABRAMAN (Apr 8, 2018)




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## TammyJ (Apr 11, 2018)

ALDABRAMAN said:


>


I absolutely have to get to touch one of those wonderful creatures...may be taking a trip to Florida later this year...watch out!!!


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## rjamesbeasley (Jun 21, 2018)

I think that tortoises do have some intelligence; here's why...
You may be aware of a series on the BBC known as the secret Life of the zoo, where the in's and outs of everyday life for the staff and animals is revealed. One episode had the tortoise enclosure at its centre and this had one alpha male (lets call him Jerry as I've forgotten his name) who had his pick of the females; rather understandably, he had nothing to grumble about. One day, however, a new, younger male, called football, was introduced and this was the end for poor Jerry, who was frequently turned over, lost his females and refused to eat to the extent that he was in danger of death!
To prevent this from happening, the zookeepers erected a series of posts in the enclosures that cordened off football from Jerry, so he was now back on top, had all the females and made a full recovery. At night, however, the females, who where small enough to fit through the posts even if football was not, snuck by to football whilst Jerry slept to "enjoy football's company", so to speak. They then returned before Jerry awoke the following morning, he being none the wiser!
My question is, if these animals have no intelligence comparable to a dog for example, then why did the females only visit at night, why did they mind that football was separate from Jerry and did they know that choosing team football would kill Jerry?
What do you think?


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## katieandiggy (Jun 21, 2018)

Like a kind of booty call [emoji23]


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## Kristy1970 (Jun 22, 2018)

katieandiggy said:


> Like a kind of booty call [emoji23]



[emoji23][emoji23] tort bootie call, friends with benefits lol


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## Jay Bagley (Jun 22, 2018)

Tortoise Tinder


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