# Foods to clean out the digestive tract?



## CrystalsFamily (Apr 29, 2014)

I have had quite a saga with our Russian Tortoise Crystal (see this very long thread if interested in many, many details: http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/worried-about-inactive-tortoise-in-ne-please-advise.89528/) and now have a pretty good hypothesis that his not eating and not being very active has to do with being blocked/constipated. (He has pooped out a couple of oblong hard- and fibrous-looking things a couple of times now and improved afterward, but then backslid). So.... are there any foods or other things anyone knows of that might help tortoises to clear this kind of thing? (If I could get him to eat it, given the lack of appetite. Most of the last 38 days he has eaten nothing.)


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## Yvonne G (Apr 29, 2014)

canned pumpkin (not pie filling), aloe plant, watery fruit


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## Kirin (Apr 29, 2014)

cactus pads, watermelon, and pumkin.


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## CrystalsFamily (Apr 29, 2014)

Thanks, Yvonne and Kirin. I heard he was eating watermelon when he was feeling better (we were away and the petsitter reported), but he's not now. I've put out canned pumpkin (organic, from BPA-free tetra pack, actually) a number of times and he hasn't touched it. I will keep offering those anyway. Don't think I can get my hands on cactus pads here in New England, but I've seen aloe vera fronds in the produce section -- just cut it into small bits?


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## marcy4hope (Apr 29, 2014)

i don't know about russians, but i had a sulcata that had bladder stones over a year ago and wasn't eating anything at all. i gave her baths/soaks in canned pumpkin mixed in the water twice a day, and sometimes added gatorade. after 1 week, her eating improved greatly and at her 3 month check-up the bladder stones were gone.


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## leigti (Apr 29, 2014)

Cucumbers have a lot of water in them and my Russian tortoise loves them. That might help with constipation. I just cut it up into slices and feed it to him peel and all.


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## CrystalsFamily (Apr 30, 2014)

marcy4hope said:


> i don't know about russians, but i had a sulcata that had bladder stones over a year ago and wasn't eating anything at all. i gave her baths/soaks in canned pumpkin mixed in the water twice a day, and sometimes added gatorade. after 1 week, her eating improved greatly and at her 3 month check-up the bladder stones were gone.


Interesting. How did you know it was bladder stones? That isn't something the vet mentioned.

I have been soaking 2-3X/day this whole time, once in baby food, might be a good idea to rotate pumpkin into that.


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## CrystalsFamily (Apr 30, 2014)

leigti said:


> Cucumbers have a lot of water in them and my Russian tortoise loves them. That might help with constipation. I just cut it up into slices and feed it to him peel and all.


He used to love zuke, which is also very watery, but hasn't been going for it. Wouldn't hurt to try cuke!


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## marcy4hope (Apr 30, 2014)

I had xrays done at the vet, and that's how we discovered it was bladder stones.


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## Elohi (Apr 30, 2014)

I'm going to say again, despite it's earlier mention, cactus pads. Those babies will help an elephant poop a boulder. 


Elohi(Earth)


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## Tom (Apr 30, 2014)

CF,
Has this tortoise been x-rayed?


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## Evy (Apr 30, 2014)

Tom said:


> CF,
> Has this tortoise been x-rayed?


Is that bad for Tortoises ?



Blue (European hunt-mix dog) 
Dolly (Yorkie dog)
Penny (Sulcata)


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## Tom (Apr 30, 2014)

No. It would tell you whether you are, or are not, dealing with stones or intestinal obstruction.


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## CrystalsFamily (May 1, 2014)

Tom said:


> No. It would tell you whether you are, or are not, dealing with stones or intestinal obstruction.


No, he hasn't been x-rayed. I am wondering about that given the above discussion. But -- would it inform treatment in any way? It sounds like I would just keep doing what I'm doing even if it was stones or an obstruction? If so, I'm not sure I see the utility of an x-ray. The vet I saw wasn't hopeful about any tests yielding useful info despite their expense (she was talking about CT scans, I think). I would have to take him to a vet hospital for that. Which would also give me a second opinion. But again, with there being some improvement (3 steps forward, 2 steps back variety), I'm not sure if the timing is right for that....

Also heard on another thread that cactus pads can be ordered online. (Don't think I can get them here in New England. Was just in AZ and could have grabbed some while on a hike! But I didn't really know what I was doing -- what type or whether they would stay fresh enough for when we got home.)

Today I made the piles of pumpkin and watermelon large, with just a little bit of greens on the side, in the hopes that this might interest him more in those foods. When he does nibble (and I mean, just a little nibbling), it always seems to be on the leafy greens. He's never liked fruit -- seems to be a naturally healthy eater when he's well!

Open to further input about utility of x-ray/2nd vet opinion.... It's been well over a month since he was really well, despite brief partial improvement after passing the first hard-looking thing.


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## Maggie Cummings (May 1, 2014)

Justa thought, but please make sure your lighting, heat, humidity are all correct also. In my experience, tortoises don't get constipated that often, not like us anyway, and one fed mostly grocery store produce has soft liquidy poops much of the time anyway. For an animal that 'used' to eat/poop good something must have happened to change all that. I'm wondering about the quality of your Vet...(just saying). Please keep up the babyfood soaks, he needs some nutrition...good luck and keep us posted


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## CrystalsFamily (May 1, 2014)

maggie3fan said:


> Justa thought, but please make sure your lighting, heat, humidity are all correct also. In my experience, tortoises don't get constipated that often, not like us anyway, and one fed mostly grocery store produce has soft liquidy poops much of the time anyway. For an animal that 'used' to eat/poop good something must have happened to change all that. I'm wondering about the quality of your Vet...(just saying). Please keep up the babyfood soaks, he needs some nutrition...good luck and keep us posted


There are many, many details about the saga, with much advice and learning and effort on my part, here, if you want them: http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/worried-about-inactive-tortoise-in-ne-please-advise.89528/
I just brought it over to this diet forum too, with the question about foods that might help. I have been soaking 2-3X/day this whole time and will continue to do so. As to what might have happened, my theory is that it was something at the petstore that he ate that he shouldn't have, or maybe he was dehydrated or too cool there, which led to the blockage. This all started about 2 weeks after we brought him home, and I know their systems are slow, so I'm thinking it just caught up with him then. For about 3 days he didn't eat (adjustment), then ramped up to a good healthy appetite and activity by the one week mark and stayed that way for another week and a half before he got sick.

The vet seems smart and attentive to me, but I think has general reptile experience, not necessarily a lot of tortoise-specific.


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## ascott (May 1, 2014)

I would bring the tort, a towel, plastic container all into the bathroom. Shut the door, stuff the towel under the door and set the tortoise up in the soaking container in warm water...then place the container out of the way so that you can turn the shower on and turn it to the hottest setting and let the bathroom fill with steam and warmth....let the tort soak for about 15 minutes while this is going on...then I would turn the water to a warm setting acceptable for the tortoise and I would plug the tub and then set the tortoise in the bathtub and let him move about in the tub in the warm water with the steam / warmth filled room for another 20 or 30 minutes....I would try this each day until positive results appear....
Exercise and warmth will do wonders for a backed up tortoise....

Also, if the tort prefers leafy greens then offer some romaine lettuce, red leaf and green leaf lettuce, all of which are high in water content...Russians traditionally like foods that are red in color (strawberry, bell pepper and such) see if Crystal will eat some and if so then you can place a bit of mineral oil in a bite sized piece of the accepted treat food and this will also help to lubricate from inside....

I would also bump the temp in the basking spot to 110-115 and pour some water in the substrate directly beneath the basking light, I would also cover the top of the enclosure tightly to allow humidity/warmth to balance out some....I also would make sure that you are running a night heat source to make sure that the enclosure does not fall below 80 degrees ever while the tort is ailing....


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## CrystalsFamily (May 1, 2014)

ascott said:


> I would bring the tort, a towel, plastic container all into the bathroom. Shut the door, stuff the towel under the door and set the tortoise up in the soaking container in warm water...then place the container out of the way so that you can turn the shower on and turn it to the hottest setting and let the bathroom fill with steam and warmth....let the tort soak for about 15 minutes while this is going on...then I would turn the water to a warm setting acceptable for the tortoise and I would plug the tub and then set the tortoise in the bathtub and let him move about in the tub in the warm water with the steam / warmth filled room for another 20 or 30 minutes....I would try this each day until positive results appear....
> Exercise and warmth will do wonders for a backed up tortoise....
> 
> Also, if the tort prefers leafy greens then offer some romaine lettuce, red leaf and green leaf lettuce, all of which are high in water content...Russians traditionally like foods that are red in color (strawberry, bell pepper and such) see if Crystal will eat some and if so then you can place a bit of mineral oil in a bite sized piece of the accepted treat food and this will also help to lubricate from inside....
> ...


Wow, this is a lot of new advice for me to try! Thank you! In some ways it brings me full circle -- first advice from forum and vet was warm that tort up! Then later there was a scare with my temperature readings where I thought I had warmed things up too much -- now I use an infrared gun to take temps. (Covered a lot of good husbandry tweaking on the other thread.) But I have probably been a little conservative since then about warming him up. We stopped running night heat around then, as it had also started to warm up here so that it wasn't going below 65. Plus I didn't really have any idea what was wrong for a long time. Now that I have some evidence suggesting that he's blocked, it makes a lot of sense to go after the warming again, and I like this bathtub methodology!

Again today he walked over the piles of watermelon and pumpkin and went for the greens, so more watery types of greens is a good idea. One other person mentioned mineral oil, but didn't know how much, and I've been hesitant to try it, since it's, you know, not food, and I don't know for sure that he's constipated. But you think it's safe to try? Do you have some experience with it?


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## CrystalsFamily (May 1, 2014)

So I did the deluxe spa treatment, and much excitement ensued! First of all, he moved around in the big bathtub a lot more than he has in a long time, which can only be good. Second, I got flashed! I have seen the many, many alarmed posts about what popped out of a new tortoise-owners tortoise, in which they are reassured that this is just their tortoise's "manhood." Nonetheless, I'm going to post a few pics here, because I wasn't expecting it to be so large and dark brown--I thought it was poop at first, but it went back in all three times, and pee came out each time. On the underside, there was the telltale pink spot. Can someone just let me know if this looks right?


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## mikeh (May 1, 2014)

Glad to hear he is eating something. Is he more active now? 

Hopefully @ascott will chime in on the mineral oil details. 

What substrate are you using? Any possibility it was new to him when you got him, he tried to eat it and now its a problem? Does what came out resemble it?

Not to alarm you further but, while flashing is normal, given his condition I would start monitoring how often it occurs, if it retracts easily and if he seems to be struggling while its happening. There have been couple threads where a lethargic/sick tortoise started to flash, eventually not retracting and ultimately passing away, pointing to something wrong was happening on the inside. Perhaps keep that Xray option open.


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## CrystalsFamily (May 1, 2014)

mikeh said:


> Glad to hear he is eating something. Is he more active now?
> 
> Hopefully @ascott will chime in on the mineral oil details.
> 
> ...


Hi over here, Mike.  Substrate is coco coir with zoomed repti-bark on top, and what he passed did not resemble it. I believe it is also what they used at the petstore.

He's only eating nibbles now and again, and while I would say he's more alert (eyes open more, head moving around), I wouldn't say he's a lot more active or anywhere near healthy level.

I will keep an eye out for the flashing. I don't know if it's happened before. I had a better view of him in the big bathtub than in his little soak tub. Pee came out each time, a lot the 3rd time, but I assume they don't push the penis out every time they pee. He did not seem to be struggling.

Will keep up the soaks, deluxe version when I can, and go for warmer temps once again. And keep that xray in mind, maybe start researching it with one of the vet hospitals.


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## Maggie Cummings (May 1, 2014)

I personally would give him about 1/2 an eye dropper of mineral oil. It won't hurt, just grease him up some. You need to be quick, but you can carefully grab his head with one hand, force his mouth open with the other, and have someone else do the eye dropper thing. Good luck and keep us posted...


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## ascott (May 1, 2014)

Maggie is absolutely correct....just get him lubed up...also--it will take a few days before you will likely see any real changes in the overall behavior of the tort....and the warmth during day and night should be put in place....I would not allow the night temps to drop below 80 while the health of the tort is in question....


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## CrystalsFamily (May 2, 2014)

mikeh said:


> Glad to hear he is eating something. Is he more active now?
> 
> Hopefully @ascott will chime in on the mineral oil details.
> 
> ...


Hi over here, Mike.  Substrate is coco coir with zoomed repti-bark on top, and what he passed did not resemble it. I believe the repti-bark is also what they used at the petstore.

He's only eating nibbles now and again, and while I would say he's more alert (eyes open more, head moving around), I wouldn't say he's a lot more active or anywhere near healthy level. But it's improvement....

I will keep an eye out for the flashing. I don't know if it's happened before. I had a better view of him in the big bathtub than in his little soak tub. Pee came out each time, a lot the 3rd time, but I assume they don't push the penis out every time they pee. He did not seem to be struggling.

Will keep up the soaks, deluxe version when I can, and go for warmer temps once again. And keep that xray in mind, maybe start researching it with one of the vet hospitals.


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## rileylee (May 2, 2014)

That is great!


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## Yvonne G (May 2, 2014)

I used to do the dropper-down-the-throat-thing with mineral oil until one day I mentioned it to my vet and she advised me to NOT do this. She said that because the mineral oil is smooth it might not be recognised in the mouth and might accidentally be aspirated into the lungs. If you want to lube up the pipes from the mouth it would be a better idea to put the mineral oil on or in a bite of food.


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## CrystalsFamily (May 2, 2014)

Yvonne G said:


> I used to do the dropper-down-the-throat-thing with mineral oil until one day I mentioned it to my vet and she advised me to NOT do this. She said that because the mineral oil is smooth it might not be recognised in the mouth and might accidentally be aspirated into the lungs. If you want to lube up the pipes from the mouth it would be a better idea to put the mineral oil on or in a bite of food.


Thanks Yvonne. I don't think I feel so comfortable forcing his mouth open anyway. Trick is to get him to eat something and/or to know what that will be, to put the mineral oil on it. Will keep trying different foods, but so far it's like when he doesn't eat, he doesn't eat, regardless of what's presented.


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## marcy4hope (May 2, 2014)

when i had problems with mine, i also used mineral oil. but, i put it on the food. the only thing she would eat at the time was mazuri so i soaked a couple pieces of mazuri and used an eye dropper to squirt the mineral oil down in the mazuri. don't know if it really helped anything, but i don't think it hurt anything. just made her poo slimier looking.

the other thing i noticed with mine was that while i had difficulty getting her to eat her usually grocery store greens, she would graze pretty good if she was out in the grass, especially dandelions. so, i took her out every day just to make sure she got something, even if it was just a few dandelions.

i'd also recommend the xray. i'd at least want to know what i was dealing with. the vet i took mine to basically only provided an xray. he had experience with reptiles, but said all he knew about the bladder stones was that it would take surgery and he didn't do it. i told him not to worry and i went home and took care of her myself. most of what i did was off of advice found here. the vet was actually in total shock when i took her back 3 months later for a follow up xray and the stones were gone.


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## CrystalsFamily (May 3, 2014)

He seems to be eating a little more, I think since efforts to keep him warmer. And this morning I was able to hand feed him most of the piece of spring mix that had the mineral oil (success!), so cross fingers about that. Will get more watery food choices at grocery store today and do another bathtub treatment. If improvement isn't consistent, will look into xray/ CT scan this week.


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## CrystalsFamily (May 3, 2014)

marcy4hope said:


> when i had problems with mine, i also used mineral oil. but, i put it on the food. the only thing she would eat at the time was mazuri so i soaked a couple pieces of mazuri and used an eye dropper to squirt the mineral oil down in the mazuri. don't know if it really helped anything, but i don't think it hurt anything. just made her poo slimier looking.
> 
> the other thing i noticed with mine was that while i had difficulty getting her to eat her usually grocery store greens, she would graze pretty good if she was out in the grass, especially dandelions. so, i took her out every day just to make sure she got something, even if it was just a few dandelions.
> 
> i'd also recommend the xray. i'd at least want to know what i was dealing with. the vet i took mine to basically only provided an xray. he had experience with reptiles, but said all he knew about the bladder stones was that it would take surgery and he didn't do it. i told him not to worry and i went home and took care of her myself. most of what i did was off of advice found here. the vet was actually in total shock when i took her back 3 months later for a follow up xray and the stones were gone.


Speaking of dandelions, now that it's Spring here (at least for the moment!), there are dandelions in the yard. But we just moved to this house, and I don't know what the lawn's been treated with in the past. I'd like to offer those, but would be concerned about that. Do others agree?

I don't think it's warm enough outside to take him out yet, especially when he's not well. And I'm not set up with an outside enclosure yet either.


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## ascott (May 4, 2014)

I would agree, it is better to error on the side of caution ....I personally would not offer the dandi's without knowing...


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## CrystalsFamily (May 4, 2014)

Last night after bathtub, Crystal's appetite was pretty good! This has happened before, for about a week, but he didn't poop and then backslid. So it will be poop that really excites me. But I enjoyed hand feeding him a little "burrito" of lettuce wrapped around pumpkin.  

I assume I should give the mineral oil a few days and then I can repeat if there are no results??

He also flashed again (what is it about the bathtub? The activity?), but not for long and it retracted easily....


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## ascott (May 4, 2014)

I would offer him the mineral oil for at least another week, along with long warm water soaks....


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## CrystalsFamily (May 4, 2014)

ascott said:


> I would offer him the mineral oil for at least another week, along with long warm water soaks....


So you mean mineral oil every day? (Just to be clear.) Or wait and see if the first dose helped first?


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## ascott (May 5, 2014)

I would offer it up a couple more days at least once a day and also offer the warm water soaks....this is just what I would do.


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## sibi (May 5, 2014)

Yvonne G said:


> I used to do the dropper-down-the-throat-thing with mineral oil until one day I mentioned it to my vet and she advised me to NOT do this. She said that because the mineral oil is smooth it might not be recognised in the mouth and might accidentally be aspirated into the lungs. If you want to lube up the pipes from the mouth it would be a better idea to put the mineral oil on or in a bite of food.


 
My thought exactly! I often put mineral oil in some mazuri. Also, there' the other end to inject some mineral oil too. You can get him coming and going. Btw, I think, based on what you've stated, your tort may have stones in the bladder. X-rays is a must. You don't need to get a c-scan. Blockages, whether in the intestines or the bladder will show up. Knowing what you're up against is half the battle. Check the "ash" content of any greens, mazuri, or foods you feed your tort. Ash has been known to cause urine to crystallize and cause obstructions in the bladder. Also, Ascott gave you some really good advice to get things moving in there. Keep doing that while watching the foods he's nibbling on. Your tort knows he's sick, and is trying to remedy his ill by going after greens. IF you find that it's an obstruction from something he was exposed to at the pet shop, then it just has to make its way out. Their system works extremely slow especially if they are sick. It may be weeks before anything comes out if an obstruction can be seen on x-rays. And if there is an obstruction in the intestines, and weeks of trying to remedy it fails, you may have to go to a specialized hosp for surgical removal. But, that's getting ahead of ourselves. First get that x-rays done!


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## CrystalsFamily (May 6, 2014)

As an update, Crystal is continuing to eat better -- more food and with more gusto -- although not consistently back to healthy level. (Thank goodness he was healthy for 1.5 weeks of the almost 3 mos we've had him, or I wouldn't know how to judge!) He is more alert and active as well, getting himself up in the morning and looking for food. He's also doing more things that he used to like spending time in the hide and digging down in there and in his favorite corner. 

Yesterday and today, he passed urates for the first time since this all began -- don't know if that detail might mean anything to anyone, other than that he's eating. 

The small, string-shaped poops are coming more often and looking softer. There was also one extremely small, but more normal-looking (mushy, green) bit of poop the other day (a little slimy, presumably from the mineral oil). I take all this as evidence of intestinal blockage -- although I don't know whether to think that he is slowly passing the blockage itself bit by bit, or that these poops are string-shaped because they're having to get around a blockage. 

@sibi, I would be interested in knowing what specifically you think suggests bladder stones vs. intestinal blockage. Also, thanks for the info about ash content. I had a quick look and saw that the Zoomed Grassland Tortoise food I had been using to up fiber intake says 10% ash -- but I don't know whether that's high or fine. Do others use this? When he was eating well, I had been wetting 2-3 pellets and tossing them in his salad. I haven't used it much since he's started eating again, because I'm more focused on getting watery things in him. I have Mazuri now, and it has no ash content, but he's never once gone for it -- perhaps if I toss it into the salad. But I'm not sure it would substitute for the Grassland in terms of fiber?

I am continuing to keep temps always above 80 and up to 115 under the basking light, to soak 2-3X/day (in the big bathtub whenever I can and 1x/day with baby food), and gave more mineral oil yesterday and today.


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## tortadise (May 6, 2014)

Spaghetti squash is a natural dewormer as well within food sources. You don't really want to wipe all the gut bacteria out though. Gut flora has a lot of good microbes, and bacteria in their as well.


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## sibi (May 6, 2014)

I mentioned stones in the bladder because of the symptoms. It can just as well be an intestinal blockage. But, like I suggested, only x-rays can confirm that. Also, I've had a barium solution done on my rescue because of some blockage issue. It turned out to be stones in the bladder; not intestinal blockage. The barium solution made its way out of her system over a 2 month period!!! But, not blockage in her intestines. It took that long to clear out because her blockage was stones in her bladder, and it made it difficult to pass fecal matter through a very tight space. Have you done x-rays yet?


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## CrystalsFamily (May 6, 2014)

sibi said:


> I mentioned stones in the bladder because of the symptoms. It can just as well be an intestinal blockage. But, like I suggested, only x-rays can confirm that. Also, I've had a barium solution done on my rescue because of some blockage issue. It turned out to be stones in the bladder; not intestinal blockage. The barium solution made its way out of her system over a 2 month period!!! But, not blockage in her intestines. It took that long to clear out because her blockage was stones in her bladder, and it made it difficult to pass fecal matter through a very tight space. Have you done x-rays yet?


Thanks for clarifying (symptoms of both are the same) and sharing your experience. I haven't done x-rays yet. I'm not ready to jump on it, just because I am actually seeing improvement, and it's more significant improvement than I have seen in the past when he's then backslid. If he is in fact getting better, then this probably isn't the right time for further measures that would be stressful for him. But I have called the vet today to talk it through with her and get a referral for where I could have them done, so that I can be ready act on it if the improvement doesn't continue, or if I begin to see any backsliding at all.

Do you know of any guidelines for what level of ash content is ok? (I can try this question on the vet too.)


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## mikeh (May 6, 2014)

Good to hear we are on the upswing again. With weeds coming into abundance and his appetite improving its time to get scissors introducing him to weeds and passing on store bought greens and pellets. Clover is easily digestible, is soft and pushes things along. Great source of protein as well. (Just dont confuse it with oxalites as they looks very similar.) Young wild Dandelion is another easy to digest weed Russians like, leaves and flowers. Add some young broad and narrow leaf plantain weeds for great source of fresh long fiber, saw thistles, young wild grape wine leafs and you have a good basic diet. During spring, summer and fall I only feed weeds and grasses to my Leopard. Almost immediately there is change in growth. It is so much better and nicer looking on this kind of weed diet then winter store bought greens foods and grassland/mazuri pallets. The stool also smells fresh and has nice moist consistency compered to store bought greens and pellets. There is no need to use pellets during spring/summer time at all. If your backyard is not safe, get your scissors, find a wild field with young weeds full of nutrients.  Hope his progress continues. Have you taken him out on sunny day yet?


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## CrystalsFamily (May 6, 2014)

mikeh said:


> Good to hear we are on the upswing again. With weeds coming into abundance and his appetite improving its time to get scissors introducing him to weeds and passing on store bought greens and pellets. Clover is easily digestible, is soft and pushes things along. Great source of protein as well. (Just dont confuse it with oxalites as they looks very similar.) Young wild Dandelion is another easy to digest weed Russians like, leaves and flowers. Add some young broad and narrow leaf plantain weeds for great source of fresh long fiber, saw thistles, young wild grape wine leafs and you have a good basic diet. During spring, summer and fall I only feed weeds and grasses to my Leopard. Almost immediately there is change in growth. It is so much better and nicer looking on this kind of weed diet then winter store bought greens foods and grassland/mazuri pallets. The stool also smells fresh and has nice moist consistency compered to store bought greens and pellets. There is no need to use pellets during spring/summer time at all. If your backyard is not safe, get your scissors, find a wild field with young weeds full of nutrients.  Hope his progress continues. Have you taken him out on sunny day yet?


Sunny day? What's that?? Actually, we've had some sunny ones, but no temps over low 60s, and I'm not going to take him out in that in his current condition. As for the weeds: I hope, Mike, that you don't get frustrated (with me  ), but I am not ready to tackle that learning curve yet. Maybe if all my energy hadn't gone into Crys's being sick, I would be by now. But I'm not comfortable with the weeds in our immediate suburban (far cry from rural) environs, or with my ability to identify weeds generally. I have a more botany-minded friend whom I can perhaps enlist at some point though.... Fresh, moist stool would certainly be a welcome change!

I did talk to the vet about the ash. She felt that as long as there's a variety of foods, there's not a lot of danger of magnesium overload, and that small amounts of the Grassland are ok -- I will probably cut it back to every other day if/when I add it back in. Not to repeatedly be passing the buck (backwards), but since he fell ill after only 2 weeks at our house, I do wonder about his previous diet -- I know at the petstore there was nowhere near enough variety, and maybe a lot more Grassland.


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## CrystalsFamily (May 9, 2014)

Crystal's continued to do well the rest of the week. This upswing is definitely longer-lasting than the last, and I continue to see poops pretty frequently. They are very small, and I am not counting them as normal yet, but they are looking greener and moister as time goes on. And he's peppy compared to his former state. He doesn't eat as much some days as others, but when he does, it's with gusto! His eyes are open wider, and he's more responsive. Definitely feeling better, especially right after soaks and deluxe soaks.

Vet said x-rays would likely need to be barium ones, which would have to take place over several days. I would be pretty anxious about leaving him at the vet hospital, after all the husbandry tweaking I've done here at home. (Not to mention the cost of a stay there.) Still keeping him extra warm and doing mineral oil, and he's developed a taste for pumpkin at last. He nibbles the aloe vera a tiny bit, and I'm awaiting delivery of cactus pads.


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## marcy4hope (May 9, 2014)

glad to hear that he's doing better. and a normal x-ray is all you need to see if there are bladder stones or a blockage. no need for a barium one, at least not in my torts case. i called around my area when i needed an x-ray and found a place that did them for just $25. the bladder stones were very clear with just a simple x-ray. glad to hear things are going better right now.


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## ascott (May 9, 2014)

"I" personally would not leave the tort with the vet...especially since the tort is showing a marked point of improvement...stress to me is one of the worst things to inflict on a tortoise...."I" personally would continue what you are doing and see has the progression continues.....


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## CrystalsFamily (May 12, 2014)

ascott said:


> "I" personally would not leave the tort with the vet...especially since the tort is showing a marked point of improvement...stress to me is one of the worst things to inflict on a tortoise...."I" personally would continue what you are doing and see has the progression continues.....


That's where I am with it, too. Still getting frequent pea-sized but otherwise normal-looking poop. Also, the mineral oil seems to just be making its way through -- starting about 6 days after I first gave it, I could see it floating in the soak water. So want to let it do some more of its job. And best of all -- most days he is now eating what I would consider a normal amount!


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## ascott (May 12, 2014)

I think sometimes we silly humans want instant results  me being one of them....and so from time to time I have to remind myself to try to realize we are dealing with a tortoise....less than human speed .....


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## CrystalsFamily (May 17, 2014)

Here's our silly guy sitting in his salad and just munching away! He's been eating a nice big pile every day and asking for more! (But not that red pepper -- he still doesn't go for much of the fancy stuff. Greens, greens, greens. He did eventually come around to the pumpkin, took a very few tiny nibbles of the aloe after seeing it for many days, and munches on the cactus sometimes if there's nothing else on offer.) 

I am cleaning up poop all the time! (Had almost forgotten about that messiness!) It's getting steadily bigger and is nice and moist. He no longer wants to hang out in the soaks for more than a few minutes (more like he was before), and I'd say his energy is back to normal. 

I will probably keep up the baby food soaks 1x/day for another week, then maybe water soaks daily for a bit, before I start cutting back to every couple days. Maybe in another week or so I will also think about easing temps back into normal ranges (105/80s/70s), and letting them go down at night (at this point I think that will only be down to 70-75 anyway). Unless anyone thinks otherwise, I will probably let him eat more than normal for a while, as he's got like a month and half to make up!


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## marcy4hope (May 18, 2014)

this is awesome. what a cute little guy. so glad to hear he's doing so much better!!!! 



CrystalsFamily said:


> View attachment 80559
> 
> Here's our silly guy sitting in his salad and just munching away! He's been eating a nice big pile every day and asking for more! (But not that red pepper -- he still doesn't go for much of the fancy stuff. Greens, greens, greens. He did eventually come around to the pumpkin, took a very few tiny nibbles of the aloe after seeing it for many days, and munches on the cactus sometimes if there's nothing else on offer.)
> 
> ...


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## plamphier (Jul 21, 2014)

marcy4hope said:


> when i had problems with mine, i also used mineral oil. but, i put it on the food. the only thing she would eat at the time was mazuri so i soaked a couple pieces of mazuri and used an eye dropper to squirt the mineral oil down in the mazuri. don't know if it really helped anything, but i don't think it hurt anything. just made her poo slimier looking.
> 
> the other thing i noticed with mine was that while i had difficulty getting her to eat her usually grocery store greens, she would graze pretty good if she was out in the grass, especially dandelions. so, i took her out every day just to make sure she got something, even if it was just a few dandelions.
> 
> i'd also recommend the xray. i'd at least want to know what i was dealing with. the vet i took mine to basically only provided an xray. he had experience with reptiles, but said all he knew about the bladder stones was that it would take surgery and he didn't do it. i told him not to worry and i went home and took care of her myself. most of what i did was off of advice found here. the vet was actually in total shock when i took her back 3 months later for a follow up xray and the stones were gone.


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## plamphier (Jul 21, 2014)

I know this is an old thread, but I've got a really sick CDT (she has a UTI)that I'm fostering for a friend and when I took her to the vet we xrayed her cause she seemed dense for her size, and she has a HUGE bladder stone. Vet thinks chonic UTI (she had one nostril scarred over) and thus chronic dehydration. The vet, who's 64 yrs. old and been doing torts her whole prof. life, said the surgery is dangerous and they have very large bladders, so it would be best to leave the stone there, cure her UTI and maybe if she wasn't sick she wouldn't be dehydrated and the stone would stop getting bigger and could just stay put. I'm going to try a bunch of the things in this thread, cause she's very lethargic and not eating. Poor baby. Sick torts are scary.


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## marcy4hope (Jul 21, 2014)

plamphier said:


> I know this is an old thread, but I've got a really sick CDT (she has a UTI)that I'm fostering for a friend and when I took her to the vet we xrayed her cause she seemed dense for her size, and she has a HUGE bladder stone. Vet thinks chonic UTI (she had one nostril scarred over) and thus chronic dehydration. The vet, who's 64 yrs. old and been doing torts her whole prof. life, said the surgery is dangerous and they have very large bladders, so it would be best to leave the stone there, cure her UTI and maybe if she wasn't sick she wouldn't be dehydrated and the stone would stop getting bigger and could just stay put. I'm going to try a bunch of the things in this thread, cause she's very lethargic and not eating. Poor baby. Sick torts are scary.


wow. sorry to hear about the stone. mine had 3 stones. i soaked her every day. when she wasn't eating, i added canned pumpkin and gatorade to the water. i gradually took the gatorade out. as she started to finally eat, i took the pumpkin out, but still soaked her every single day for 3 months. at 3 months we re-xrayed and the stones were gone. i've never dealt with a uti before. i do hate it when they are sick. but, after soaking every day and babying mine, i got very attached to her. hope yours is on the mend super fast.


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