# Global warming and the 'doomsday' glacier



## DoubleD1996! (Dec 28, 2021)

A glacier the size of Florida may fall into the ocean sooner or later due to global warming/fossil fuel emissions causing sea level to rise. This means people of south Florida could be underwater in a matter of years.I hate how the government prioritizes profit over people. Then all this warm weather and tornadoes. Sheesh.


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## Jan A (Dec 28, 2021)

DoubleD1996! said:


> A glacier the size of Florida may fall into the ocean sooner or later due to global warming/fossil fuel emissions causing sea level to rise. This means people of south Florida could be underwater in a matter of years.I hate how the government prioritizes profit over people. Tto scienthen all thisist warm illweather and tornadoes. Sheesh.


Bill Nye is to weather what Fauci is to COVID. Neither have any clue as to what's going on other than to use lies for media attention & political & monetary gain. And no, the Federal Government is not profiting on anything or we wouldn't be $25 trillion, or whatever it is, in debt.


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## Tom (Dec 28, 2021)

DoubleD1996! said:


> A glacier the size of Florida may fall into the ocean sooner or later due to global warming/fossil fuel emissions causing sea level to rise. This means people of south Florida could be underwater in a matter of years.I hate how the government prioritizes profit over people. Then all this warm weather and tornadoes. Sheesh.


Did you not get the memo that the "scientists" and government officials were all lying about "global warming". They got caught, got away with it with no consequences and re-branded the same lies as "climate change" a few years later.

There have always been tornadoes in the mid west. That is why it is called "Tornado Alley". Likewise with hurricanes on the east coast and earthquakes on the west coast.


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## jeff kushner (Dec 29, 2021)

There is a now-famous article & pictures that describes a receding glacier, with all the drama and hand-wringing in attendance, it describes how all will be lost within years...............

it was written in 1911 or 1914.....something like that.

Earth evolves, has for 3.6Bil yrs and will continue doing so whether we are here or not...................

I've always said..;

"The thing about smart people is that they know when they are hearing BS, period"

All I know for sure is SOMEONE owes me some money............my home was supposed to be WATERFRONT by now!


LOL


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## Emmawilly (Dec 30, 2021)

Am I reading your responses correctly? Are you all saying human impact to climate change isn't a real threat and is just natural evolution of the planet? 
Makes me wonder what hope there is if some of the most intelligent people on this forum feel this way.


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## mark1 (Dec 30, 2021)

climate change is obviously real , the great lakes are said to be left by a melting glacier that was supposed to be something like 2 miles thick , it covered all of canada and the northern US down as far as the ohio river .... i believe this event happened 20,000-50,000 yrs ago ....

i have read articles written about "unprecedented" receding artic ice from 1900 ....... do we have an effect on climate ?i'm sure we do ..... there was a movie where mankind was , imo , accurately described as a "virus to the planet " ..... if greenhouse gas emissions were responsible for arctic ice receding to unprecidented levels in 1900 , we are absolutely doomed regardless of anything we do , short of getting rid of about 7 billion people with the remainder living 3rd world lives ..... .. how much of an effect have we had on climate change , i don't believe anyone knows that answer factually , either way ....... 

like everything else it's spun for political purposes , to create sides , not to get to facts or solve problems , politics is more about creating problems ...... many political solutions offered and pushed on people are pretty ridiculous , they lack as much common sense as folks that don't believe there is climate change .... ... i think the way it's handled is the problem , not the fact that it is real , or to what degree can we influence it .......... jmo


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## Toddrickfl1 (Dec 30, 2021)

I learned in kindergarten that chemicals in aerosol cans were going to destroy the ozone layer within ten years if people didn't stop using them. That was in 1985.


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## Emmawilly (Dec 30, 2021)

Toddrickfl1 said:


> I learned in kindergarten that chemicals in aerosol cans were going to destroy the ozone layer within ten years if people didn't stop using them. That was in 1985.


They changed the components in aerosols to prevent further degradation didn't they?


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## Tom (Dec 30, 2021)

mark1 said:


> climate change is obviously real , the great lakes are said to be left by a melting glacier that was supposed to be something like 2 miles thick , it covered all of canada and the northern US down as far as the ohio river .... i believe this event happened 20,000-50,000 yrs ago ....
> 
> i have read articles written about "unprecedented" receding artic ice from 1900 ....... do we have an effect on climate ?i'm sure we do ..... there was a movie where mankind was , imo , accurately described as a "virus to the planet " ..... if greenhouse gas emissions were responsible for arctic ice receding to unprecidented levels in 1900 , we are absolutely doomed regardless of anything we do , short of getting rid of about 7 billion people with the remainder living 3rd world lives ..... .. how much of an effect have we had on climate change , i don't believe anyone knows that answer factually , either way .......
> 
> like everything else it's spun for political purposes , to create sides , not to get to facts or solve problems , politics is more about creating problems ...... many political solutions offered and pushed on people are pretty ridiculous , they lack as much common sense as folks that don't believe there is climate change .... ... i think the way it's handled is the problem , not the fact that it is real , or to what degree can we influence it .......... jmo


Wise words my friend. Very wise words.


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## Tom (Dec 30, 2021)

Emmawilly said:


> Am I reading your responses correctly? Are you all saying human impact to climate change isn't a real threat and is just natural evolution of the planet?
> Makes me wonder what hope there is if some of the most intelligent people on this forum feel this way.


"Climate change" is definitely real. It is happening and has always been happening since before humans existed. It will still be happening long after humans are extinct. How much influence is the current batch of humans having on it? I agree with Mark that no one has that answer.

What the lying Marxists say about "global warming" and "climate change" is largely a big pack of lies. What "they" say to do about it is also a bunch of non-sense. Don't believe everything you see on TV. Most of what the media says these days is propaganda, and they are very successful at it. No one on any side of the political spectrum wants to see the earth polluted and ruined. That benefits no one.


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## Yvonne G (Dec 30, 2021)

What about fossil fuels?


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## ZenHerper (Dec 30, 2021)

It's not hard to find the actual science of climate change:








climate change - Search Results - PubMed


climate change - Search Results - PubMed




pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov





There is on-going research into climate disinformation:








Climate Change Disinformation and How to Combat It


Climate change presents a challenge at multiple levels: It challenges our cognitive abilities because the effect of the accumulation of emissions is difficult to understand. Climate change also challenges many people's worldview because any climate mitigation regime will have economic and...




www.annualreviews.org





And, since climate denial is now a popular topic amongst conspiracy theorists, there is on-going research about who is susceptible to the falsehoods of climate denial:





The role of conspiracy mentality in denial of science and susceptibility to viral deception about science | Politics and the Life Sciences | Cambridge Core


The role of conspiracy mentality in denial of science and susceptibility to viral deception about science - Volume 38 Issue 2




www.cambridge.org


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## mark1 (Dec 30, 2021)

Yvonne G said:


> What about fossil fuels?


 the government has been subsidizing alternative energy for like 75 yrs , they still haven't found a logical replacement for fossil fuel ....... there are clean fossil fuel technologies being developed .......... when they figure out a better mousetrap , folks will buy into it willingly .......


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## ZEROPILOT (Dec 30, 2021)

I'm glad that I go to sleep in my swimming trunks.
And I'm looking forward to having beachfront property.
As Americans we'll do what we always do. Too little too late. And in the meantime feast on the horror of what may or may not happen "soon".
I refuse to let facts stop me from cracking a joke. But the fact is that here in Florida the winters have seemingly disappeared and now every hurricane is a cat 4 or 5.
I'd always hoped that the greenhouse effect would clash with the next ice age and we'd call it a draw.
I'm interested to know what the history books will have to say going ahead another 100 years. But that will be long after everyone in this group has passed. Probably from a different issue.

Let's be careful on this thread. There are no political rants allowed.


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## jeff kushner (Dec 30, 2021)

Yvonne G said:


> What about fossil fuels?




LOL, the ultimate in Recycling........

I had a plan with the 2 ago admin's 767 dollar Stim for "shovel ready jobs. Yeah, that one....not taking political sides, just wanted you to remember the amount....my calcs said that 767bil could build/power a_nd employ_ people for 2 years= 12bil a pop= 69 Nuclear power plants.....at a mere 6mil people per plant, we would have given EVERYONE in the country free electricity for two years.................I just wonder if that would have employed far more people, simulated far more opportunities for those less fortunate and provided a direction instead of continuing to flounder in oil?

That's one of the problems, we all have "good ideas"....Mark nailed it though....like what he said or not.


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## Tom (Dec 30, 2021)

ZEROPILOT said:


> I'm interested to know what the history books will have to say going ahead another 100 years.


Song lyrics from a self labeled Marxist:

Who controls the past now controls the future
Who controls the present now controls the past
Who controls the past now controls the future
Who controls the present now?

We are being lied to every day from all around. History has been re-written and most of us don't even know our own past, much less the past of other cultures. Our children are being indoctrinated and the greatest country on earth, the best example of freedom and human rights that has ever existed on this planet is slipping away from us daily. We are losing the war of words and our culture of freedom is slowly dying. What comes next is not good, even for those who are idiotically working to bring it about.


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## Jan A (Dec 30, 2021)

Emmawilly said:


> They changed the components in aerosols to prevent further degradation didn't they?


And that's all to the good. It didn't adversely affect much of the world population in terms of jobs & basic living essentials. That's innovation. There were no mandates. Standards changed, just like they did with changing the coolants used in air conditioning. Not everyone in the world has air conditioning.

But when you arbitrarily decide to cut off fossil fuels & heighten only "renewables", without looking at what you're going to use for back-up when the wind isn't blowing or the sun isn't shining or at night, you will have to go without power. This is what is happening in California with rolling blackouts. What if you need to charge your electric car that you were ordered to buy? Are we going to end flying by jet or plane? How are we going to get agricultural goods & other food to market? How will you have dairy products if there are no cows?

Much of windmills & solar panels are manufactured in China. Most of the lithium comes from China. You cannot recycle wind mill blades or solar panels. You cannot "store" wind or solar-powered energy. And once again, you are reliant on countries that are not our friends, whether it's oil or solar panels or the materials needed to manufacture renewables equipment. And meanwhile you put millions of Americans out of work. 

Mankind has no control over solar flares, volcanoes, earthquake, tsunamis, asteroids & other natural disasters that contribute greatly to pollution, flooding or atmospheric disturbances.

If politicians & elites are correct about the non-stop doomsday world,
why are the same ones buying & building mansions on ocean-front beaches or flying everywhere they go on private jets? Why are they taking limo rides rather than mass transit?


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## Emmawilly (Dec 30, 2021)

I agree with what everyone has said; the observations on the changing planet and lying politicians. Those things won't ever change. 

But what I don't hear from this thread is a recognition that regardless of the doomsday warnings, lying politicians and evolution of Earth, each of us still has a duty to make small changes or compromises in order to make a lesser impact on the planet and the changing climate. 

These are some of the things I'm practicing:
- Turning down heating to 20 °C (just my house, tortoise house still heated to 27°C!)
- Using my dryer less 
- Eating less meat 
- looking at my travel options, car choices, holiday choices (we used to have 2 cars and a motorhome. We've reduced to one hybrid vehicle and about to sell our other car).
- walking more 
- trying not to buy things with palm oil as an ingredient (really hard as it seems to be in everything)
- consuming less things, buying less 'stuff'.
I have a long way to go though....

Forget the politicians. Just concentrate on your own impact and what you do or don't do. Not answerable to anyone but your children and grandchildren.


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## Tom (Dec 30, 2021)

Emmawilly said:


> I agree with what everyone has said; the observations on the changing planet and lying politicians. Those things won't ever change.
> 
> But what I don't hear from this thread is a recognition that regardless of the doomsday warnings, lying politicians and evolution of Earth, each of us still has a duty to make small changes or compromises in order to make a lesser impact on the planet and the changing climate.


Now all of this I can agree with and get on board. We are on the same page here. Here are some things I do:
-I've been recycling since the 80s. No joke, My neighborhood was one of the first ones to get recycling bins. We had one for cans and bottles and another for newspaper. I'm still recycling today.
-When other despicable humans dump their trash in inappropriate places, I pick it up and throw it away. Been doing this for decades. I've collected 100s of bags and other trash out of my falconry fields, and I regularly haul away dumped trash from the dirt roads near my ranch.
-I have solar panels on my house. Paid for them myself, and I live in one of the sunniest areas on the planet. My meter runs backwards all day nearly every day, and I power my neighbors houses as well as my own during those times.
-I drive fuel efficient cars when possible, and now that they've largely solved all the problems with cost, milage, fast charging, and battery longevity, my next car will likely be electric, and it will charge at home with my solar panels.
-You know how when you turn on the hot water and it takes a while for the hot water to reach the shower? I collect and save that water for irrigation or other purposes instead of letting it flow down the drain. I also collect rain water for rinsing my tortoises after soaks, since it has no minerals and leaves no hard water stains.

I'm sure I'll remember other things too, but its past my bed time now...


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## Emmawilly (Dec 30, 2021)

Thank you. You got my point. Play our part.


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## Jan A (Dec 31, 2021)

Emmawilly said:


> Thank you. You got my point. Play our part.


I think we can agree to do lots better on recycling, energy conservation, reasonable protection policies on our environment, less waste, less energy consumption, less mandates & more innovation. But what is not 
a solution is one-size fits all because living rural is different from suburbs is different from urban cities.

BTW, high winds over 100 mph in Boulder County, Colo. today caused power lines to break & started brush fires turning quickly into large fires & burning down homes & has already been labeled by CNN, the Boston Globe & others as due to "climate change." Nothing could be further from the truth. I moved to Denver in 1973 & to Boulder in 1980. Just moved out of state this year. It would be highly unusual to not have 80 mph winds or better any time of the yr. & anywhere along the Eastern Slope & I've seen 125-150 mph wind days several times in those yrs. So I hope my friends in Superior & Louisville are safe & their homes didn't burn down, but this was in no way due to climate change.


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## jeff kushner (Dec 31, 2021)

There is nothing wrong with our system guys, it must be exactly what "they" wanted....after all, it's what they built!

I truly hope they enjoy the world they've made....... I guess it's what they wanted.

Personally, I think they're nuts but it's their turn now.........

I don't stress it anymore, I'm in the KMA club!


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## Maggie3fan (Dec 31, 2021)

*K*ick *Y*our *A*s* club? I believe in global warming...I don't know who the "they" are...but there is a lot wrong with our system...we all created it with our excess. Pay attention to the plight of the Polar Bears...they will be threatened in my lifetime and I'm old...that's my opinion and I'm stickin to it...


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## ZenHerper (Dec 31, 2021)

Jan A said:


> ...
> 
> BTW, high winds over 100 mph in Boulder County, Colo. today caused power lines to break & started brush fires turning quickly into large fires & burning down homes & has already been labeled by CNN, the Boston Globe & others as due to "climate change." Nothing could be further from the truth. I moved to Denver in 1973 & to Boulder in 1980. Just moved out of state this year. It would be highly unusual to not have 80 mph winds or better any time of the yr. & anywhere along the Eastern Slope & I've seen 125-150 mph wind days several times in those yrs. So I hope my friends in Superior & Louisville are safe & their homes didn't burn down, but this was in no way due to climate change.


High wind in the mountains is not unusual. No reporting has said otherwise.

It is the perfect storm of drought, autumn heat, fire, and 115 mph winds that is unique this year. All the data matters:








The New West Under Climate Change: A Rampaging Winter Wildfire


Record-setting warmth, long-term drought, and an historic windstorm created the conditions that led to Colorado's horrific Marshall Fire.




preview.discovermagazine.com


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## ZenHerper (Dec 31, 2021)

Updating flood map science:








Princeton Engineering - '100-year' floods will happen every one to 30 years, according to new flood maps


Princeton researchers have developed new maps that predict coastal flooding for every county on the Eastern and Gulf Coasts and find 100-year floods could become annual occurrences in New Ehttps://environment.princeton.edu/ngland; and happen every one to 30 years along the southeast Atlantic and...




engineering.princeton.edu





Re*ltor.com actually has a great flood utility on its listing pages...search for your U.S. address, scroll down to the Neighborhood map utility, then select the Flood overlay to get a 30-year projection on the ground where you are.


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## Cathie G (Dec 31, 2021)

Emmawilly said:


> Thank you. You got my point. Play our part.


I totally agree with you even though, I actually believe that we can't stop what's happening. That would take the whole world to change their ways right now. They're not going to and they can't really. How would we get products home from the grocery store freshly if there wasn't packaging? If we use paper bags like in a bulk store we still have to cut down trees to do that. A factory has to make them into paper. Then they have to arrive to the store. But I do think we as an individual should try to recycle as much as we can out of respect for the Lord's earth?


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## ZEROPILOT (Dec 31, 2021)

Cathie G said:


> I totally agree with you even though, I actually believe that we can't stop what's happening. That would take the whole world to change their ways right now. They're not going to and they can't really. How would we get products home from the grocery store freshly if there wasn't packaging? If we use paper bags like in a bulk store we still have to cut down trees to do that. A factory has to make them into paper. Then they have to arrive to the store. But I do think we as an individual should try to recycle as much as we can out of respect for the Lord's earth?


Just that one single item you mentioned..
Why aren't we only using recycling paper bags by now?


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## Emmawilly (Dec 31, 2021)

Cathie G said:


> I totally agree with you even though, I actually believe that we can't stop what's happening. That would take the whole world to change their ways right now. They're not going to and they can't really. How would we get products home from the grocery store freshly if there wasn't packaging? If we use paper bags like in a bulk store we still have to cut down trees to do that. A factory has to make them into paper. Then they have to arrive to the store. But I do think we as an individual should try to recycle as much as we can out of respect for the Lord's earth?


In the UK, we take our own bags. Plastic bags used to be free, now they charge, so 'voila', everyone brings their own. 
But I see your point.


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## Cathie G (Dec 31, 2021)

jeff kushner said:


> There is nothing wrong with our system guys, it must be exactly what "they" wanted....after all, it's what they built!
> 
> I truly hope they enjoy the world they've made....... I guess it's what they wanted.
> 
> ...


What's the KMA club spelled out??


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## Cathie G (Dec 31, 2021)

Emmawilly said:


> In the UK, we take our own bags. Plastic bags used to be free, now they charge, so 'voila', everyone brings their own.
> But I see your point.


It's really hard to keep bulk flours, grains, seeds etc fresh if it's in a bulk storage situation in a store. Especially when people are allowed to shovel out their own purchase. You can also make shopping bags out of t shirts that can be thrown in the wash. That's a favorite of mine. I've shopped in Mother Earth stores and they have large cans full of really good stuff but storing food that way invites a bug called pantry pests and no thanks. The better the food the more likely. That's all I mean by it. I totally know that our planet is warming. Where I live is so different than it was when I was a child. I remember having snow a couple of a feet deep to play in for days. Now if it snows it's usually melted by noon. So I can't change the world but I can change me. That's all I can do.


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## Tom (Dec 31, 2021)

Emmawilly said:


> In the UK, we take our own bags. Plastic bags used to be free, now they charge, so 'voila', everyone brings their own.
> But I see your point.


We do that here too. We (my family) were re-using our own bags long before these laws though. It just makes sense. I don't use straws in restaurants. Nobody releases balloons on my watch. I'm a SCUBA diver, so balloons and plastic bags are primary concerns because of the impact they have on marine life.

Its all the little things from all the little people that can add up to make a difference. How much difference will our efforts make? I sure don't know that answer, but I feel good about how I live my life.


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## Maggie3fan (Dec 31, 2021)

ZenHerper said:


> Updating flood map science:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I don't need to do that as my property flooded just this year and there are so many dead rats under my house the whole house smells of decomposition. They seem to all be gone...


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## Jan A (Jan 1, 2022)

ZenHerper said:


> High wind in the mountains is not unusual. No reporting has said otherwise.
> 
> It is the perfect storm of drought, autumn heat, fire, and 115 mph winds that is unique this year. All the data matters:
> 
> ...





ZenHerper said:


> High wind in the mountains is not unusual. No reporting has said otherwise.
> 
> It is the perfect storm of drought, autumn heat, fire, and 115 mph winds that is unique this year. All the data matters:
> 
> ...





ZenHerper said:


> High wind in the mountains is not unusual. No reporting has said otherwise.
> 
> It is the perfect storm of drought, autumn heat, fire, and 115 mph winds that is unique this year. All the data matters:
> [URL





ZenHerper said:


> Updating flood map science:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Boulder had its 1000 yr flood in the fall of 2013. It went on for a couple of weeks. The creek in a subdivision near us that overflowed has been completely redug & redirected. And a newscaster no longe The town of Lyons is rebuilt. The hueys stopped flying over my house dropping off the stranded or flooded, and there has been no major flooding since.

I am grateful for everything I have. I have lived thru tornados, floods, blizzards, & just about everything but a major hurricane (wind but not the tropical rain). I don't see every weather event as being "climate change" just because a "journalist" says they've always lived in an area they claim was never before


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## jsheffield (Jan 1, 2022)

I believe in anthropogenic climate change and that mankind is consuming and polluting the Earth as if we want to render the planet unlivable for most species (or at least couldn't care less if that happens), but here on TFO, I'd prefer to talk about turtles and tortoises.

Jamie


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## Maggie3fan (Jan 1, 2022)

jsheffield said:


> I believe in anthropogenic climate change and that mankind is consuming and polluting the Earth as if we want to render the planet unlivable for most species (or at least couldn't care less if that happens), but here on TFO, I'd prefer to talk about turtles and tortoises.
> 
> Jamie


Hey Jamie
am I the only person to know you are new moderator??? So happy moderating...lol


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## jsheffield (Jan 1, 2022)

maggie3fan said:


> Hey Jamie
> am I the only person to know you are new moderator??? So happy moderating...lol


Thanks, although I didn't mean that post to be from a moderating standpoint.

My experience with TFO had been that it's a tremendously civil community with occasional spammers trying to join in with the informative discourse unseen to sell their snake oil... to that end my hope and goal is to mostly throw spammers (and their weird threads) back over the fence and enjoy the talk about turtles and tortoises.

J


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## Maggie3fan (Jan 1, 2022)

jsheffield said:


> Thanks, although I didn't mean that post to be from a moderating standpoint.
> 
> My experience with TFO had been that it's a tremendously civil community with occasional spammers trying to join in with the informative discourse unseen to sell their snake oil... to that end my hope and goal is to mostly throw spammers (and their weird threads) back over the fence and enjoy the talk about turtles and tortoises.
> 
> J


I didn't take it from a moderating point...I just noticed the sign on your avatar...you are also a good choice...


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## mark1 (Jan 1, 2022)

jsheffield said:


> I'd prefer to talk about turtles and tortoises.



talking about turtles and tortoises and getting on the subject of climate seems inevitable ,at least to me .............i would think it's actually a required understanding ........ if i didn't keep them or have an interest in them i would have zero interest in the climate , they are some of the first animals on earth that will be affected ..... lots of members keep their turtles and tortoises outside 24/7/365 .......


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## mark1 (Jan 1, 2022)

i go to colorado a lot , my daughter lives there ......specifically the boulder area ..... the housing/population growth shocks me every time i go back .... there was no "perfect storm" , if this didn't involve 1000 homes in the populated area it did , which was never this populated until recently , this fire wouldn't be national news , it'll end up that it burnt 6 thousand acres .....in 1919 5 million acres burned , in 1825 3 million acres burned , in kansas last month 165 thousand acres burnt , i never seen it on the news ..... about half the the worst wildfires in north american history happened before 1900 ......is it possible that putting wildfires out makes for more and worse future wildfires ? i would tend to think it might , just as containing the mississipi river to prevent flooding makes for worse national news worthy flooding ........

everything cannot be a self made disaster , you lose credibility , you hurt your cause , at least with folks like me .......new york new jersey recently made the news for the recent rainfall/flooding deaths , claimed to be a climate change event , new jersey's record rainfall was 14.8 inches in 1939 , new york's 14.1 inches 1942 ......... if anything is to fault for new york cities problem it's all the concrete not the 7 inches of rain they got .... ....jmo


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## Tom (Jan 1, 2022)

mark1 said:


> i go to colorado a lot , my daughter lives there ......specifically the boulder area ..... the housing/population growth shocks me every time i go back .... there was no "perfect storm" , if this didn't involve 1000 homes in the populated area it did , which was never this populated until recently , this fire wouldn't be national news , it'll end up that it burnt 6 thousand acres .....in 1919 5 million acres burned , in 1825 3 million acres burned , in kansas last month 165 thousand acres burnt , i never seen it on the news ..... about half the the worst wildfires in north american history happened before 1900 ......is it possible that putting wildfires out makes for more and worse future wildfires ? i would tend to think it might , just as containing the mississipi river to prevent flooding makes for worse national news worthy flooding ........
> 
> everything cannot be a self made disaster , you lose credibility , you hurt your cause , at least with folks like me .......new york new jersey recently made the news for the recent rainfall/flooding deaths , claimed to be a climate change event , new jersey's record rainfall was 14.8 inches in 1939 , new york's 14.1 inches 1942 ......... if anything is to fault for new york cities problem it's all the concrete not the 7 inches of rain they got .... ....jmo


Its almost like they are trying to sensationalize things and make it seem worse than it really is. As if they are exaggerating and making stuff up to push an agenda or further a narrative... Hmmm...


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## mark1 (Jan 1, 2022)

Tom said:


> Its almost like they are trying to sensationalize things and make it seem worse than it really is. As if they are exaggerating and making stuff up to push an agenda or further a narrative... Hmmm...


 almost ....LOL


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## ZenHerper (Jan 1, 2022)

Jan A said:


> Boulder had its 1000 yr flood in the fall of 2013. It went on for a couple of weeks. The creek in a subdivision near us that overflowed has been completely redug & redirected. And a newscaster no longe The town of Lyons is rebuilt. The hueys stopped flying over my house dropping off the stranded or flooded, and there has been no major flooding since.
> 
> I am grateful for everything I have. I have lived thru tornados, floods, blizzards, & just about everything but a major hurricane (wind but not the tropical rain). I don't see every weather event as being "climate change" just because a "journalist" says they've always lived in an area they claim was never before





Tom said:


> Its almost like they are trying to sensationalize things and make it seem worse than it really is. As if they are exaggerating and making stuff up to push an agenda or further a narrative... Hmmm...


I've already cited some of the plentiful research about conspiracy theories. A clear, sunlit sky looks like a smooth blue surface, but we have learned that it is not. F*acebook groups say that tortoises pyramid because of diet and too much water, but that's now demonstrably untrue.

Just saying that you perceive (or have been told about) a correlation between what journalists and *certain other people* say does not make it so...your brain sees a correlation, your social circle reinforces the belief, and social media algorithms are engineered to make you think that's all anyone's talking about.








How does News Feed predict what you want to see?


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When a scientist sees a correlation, they investigate to see if there is actually a close, interactive/interdependent relationship between the alleged correlates; or if it is a coincidence; or an illusion. They find out who else in the world is investigating the correlation and compare their observations. To the best of their ability, they design analytical algorithms that screen out their personal biases.

You have not cited any actual data to support the conspiracy theory, you just keep repeating the rhetoric. You have not cited any actual data to refute that climate change is accelerating under the pressure of human culture and behavior.

@Jan A you live with a Redfoot - a species that requires a lot of research and concentration. You are certainly smart enough to investigate man-made climate change. There is a lot of research - which I have cited - which has not been refuted here with any verifiable data. 

Scientists have been showing their work on the subject since Rachel Carson (she was attacked by conspiracy theorists in her time, so the routine is not exactly new).




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Rachel Carson


A marine biologist and nature writer, Rachel Carson catalyzed the global environmental movement with her 1962 book Silent Spring. Discover more at womenshistory.org.




www.womenshistory.org





Anthropogenic climate change is a legitimate area of study. It's not quackery. Everyone who has posted to this thread is more than smart enough to dig through the 100 years worth of data. When someone comes to differing conclusions about a collection of data points, go ahead and specifically demonstrate why. 

Viable, situationally appropriate, lasting solutions only arise from understanding the reality, and those solutions will be slow in coming while half the people in the country cover their eyes and refuse to understand why tortoises pyramid.








The politics of climate change


U.S. residents who believe in the scientific consensus on global warming are more<br />likely to support government action to curb emissions, regardless of whether<br />they are Republicans or Democrats, according to a study led by an MSU sociologist.




msutoday.msu.edu













Simple Messages Help Set the Record Straight about Scientific Agreement on Human-Caused Climate Change: The Results of Two Experiments


Human-caused climate change is happening; nearly all climate scientists are convinced of this basic fact according to surveys of experts and reviews of the peer-reviewed literature. Yet, among the American public, there is widespread misunderstanding ...




www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov


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## Jan A (Jan 1, 2022)

ZenHerper said:


> I've already cited some of the plentiful research about conspiracy theories. A clear, sunlit sky looks like a smooth blue surface, but we have learned that it is not. F*acebook groups say that tortoises pyramid because of diet and too much water, but that's now demonstrably untrue.
> 
> Just saying that you perceive (or have been told about) a correlation between what journalists and *certain other people* say does not make it so...your brain sees a correlation, your social circle reinforces the belief, and social media algorithms are engineered to make you think that's all anyone's talking about.
> 
> ...


First of all, why do I have to cite sources for my OWN observations & experiences in times of extreme weather?

Second, a former Dean of Metereology at I believe the University of Georgia resigned her position BECAUSE the Federal GoGov


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## Yvonne G (Jan 1, 2022)

Hm-m-m. . . we may have to put this subject in the religion/politics category. If you all can keep it friendly we can keep it open.


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## Jan A (Jan 1, 2022)

Jan A said:


> First of all, why do I have to cite sources for my OWN observations & experiences in times of extreme weather?
> 
> Second, a former Dean of Metereology at I believe the University of Georgia resigned her position BECAUSE the Federal GoGov


Government told her her entire dept would lose future federal go


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## Jan A (Jan 1, 2022)

Jan A said:


> First of all, why do I have to cite sources for my OWN observations & experiences in times of extreme weather?
> 
> Second, a former Dean of Metereology at I believe the University of Georgia resigned her position BECAUSE the Federal GoGov


Government told her her entire dept would lose future federal grant money if her computer models didn't conclude there was global warming or climate change. It was an interview on the radio, about 2015 or 2016.

Third, I reviewed, edited articles on computer modeling with respect


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## Tom (Jan 1, 2022)

ZenHerper said:


> I've already cited some of the plentiful research about conspiracy theories. A clear, sunlit sky looks like a smooth blue surface, but we have learned that it is not. F*acebook groups say that tortoises pyramid because of diet and too much water, but that's now demonstrably untrue.
> 
> Just saying that you perceive (or have been told about) a correlation between what journalists and *certain other people* say does not make it so...your brain sees a correlation, your social circle reinforces the belief, and social media algorithms are engineered to make you think that's all anyone's talking about.
> 
> ...


I am not a better citation finder than you. Never will be. Don't care to be. Not something I'm going to spend time on. I know what I know and I've seen what I've seen. If you wanted to, you could find just as many citations from scientists refuting your assertions as you wanted. There are people like you on the other side of this argument that do just that. I'm not one of them. People who are intelligent and choose to spend hours of their time searching out scientific evidence and sifting through it all. The problem is that there has been too much lying. To much falsifying of data and evidence. They've been caught too many times. The only way to know that evidence is real and not "junk science" is to collect and compile the data yourself. I know what works for pyramiding and what does't because I've done the research and data compilation myself, and observed the results of others. There is no one for me to cite. Its original info.

I'm not anti-science. Quite the opposite. My problem is that evidence has been falsified, and this has been publicly admitted. I read it and saw it. Don't ask me to cite it. It was years ago. We keep hearing "follow the science" about covid related information, yet they keep changing their story. Its absurd. If your premise is that these scientists are believable and their information is accurate, then you are not paying attention to the world around you, and you have fallen for their BS. You are not alone.


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## Jan A (Jan 1, 2022)

I am having trouble typing because of a splint on my finger. 

My personal employment under contract at NOAA exposed me to computer modeling articles in forecasting future weather conditions. It was clear that manipulating the numbers could lead you to ANY conclusion you wanted concerning future weather events, global warming, etc. 

Fourth, the whole pupose of the Paris Climate Accords was to commit the U.S. to pay other countries billions of dollar & enact stricter emissions numbers in the U.S. while China & India, the worst world polluters, got NO edict but got U.S. money.

In the 80's, Reebok paid a study group to review it's aerobic shoes & other fitness equipment when compared to rivals' shoes & equipment. Guess what they concluded: Reebok's shoes & fitness equipment was superior to their rivals'.

Sixth, when you have search engines that are rigged to look only at research proving climate change or global warming & to not pull up other criticism or discourse, your research is incomplete & biased.

And again i'm back to If politicians & elites truly believed shorelines were going to recede drastically because of climate change or global warming, they wouldn't be buying or building mansions on beach front property.


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## mark1 (Jan 1, 2022)

i don't think the disagreement is whether or not climate change is real ???? or needs adressed , it's being irrational over it ..... they didn't need to make incandescent lights illegal in ohio to get me to buy LED's , it just needed to make sense . folks are making money and getting power off of climate change ..... both of which are responsible for a lot of dishonesty in life ......

the paris agreement was made in 2015 ?in 2015 china emitted (9.85 billion tons co2) , in 2020 (10.67 billion tons co2 ) ...... united states 2015 (5.37 billion tons co2) , 2020 (4.7 billion tons co2 ) ..........i believe there are countries using climate change to make money and gain power , but i'm pretty cynical ..... i believe china is still considered a "developing" country ?????? the real disagreement has absolutely nothing to do with science ...it has to do with what were doing about it ... we should pay someone to crush our economy ? transfer our technology , and pay reparations to countries who will benefit from our failure ? or should we do our part in our country and other countries do their part within their countries ? kinda like taking responsibility for themselves ........
the graph is by the smithsonian , provided by the noaa , i believe we're supposed to have had 4-5 ice ages ? and i'd guess one more than that warming events ? i believe i had read that as the glaciers receded the less ice cover on the earth the faster they receded ...... i'm going to assume that means temperature rise became faster as the glaciers disappeared ?


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## mark1 (Jan 1, 2022)

Yvonne G said:


> Hm-m-m. . . we may have to put this subject in the religion/politics category. If you all can keep it friendly we can keep it open.


 i'm agnostic , hoping for the best ......


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## jeff kushner (Jan 2, 2022)

Wow, this is by far the best NICE OT discussions I've read here.

KMA club= It is the state of mind achieved when you get old enough and financially "whole" enough to be able to tell your boss to kiss your tush....knowing, yeah...you CAN stop working if you choose. A great club to be in! 
LOL


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