# Somewhat of an emergency--sulcata lighting



## mckenzieg (Nov 4, 2010)

Hi all,

I'm so sorry if I've been tremendously annoying, but I've learned so much so quickly that I want to be sure that I am doing right by my sulcata.

Everyone said he was too cold (70 on cool, 80 warm) and that was why he had stopped eating. As of today, he has a mercury vapor lamp. HERE'S THE QUESTIONS:

It is a 160 watt. Is that far too high of wattage? Should I let him have that on for a few days while I order a 100 watt?

IS IT SAFE THAT THE MVB BULB IS IN THIS LAMP: http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.js...erralID=NA

Finally, do i leave this on 24/7, or at night use my "moonlight 50 watt" and the infrared 50 watt?

I CAN'T THANK YOU ENOUGH. Charli is directly in the heat right now (now my temps are 80 cool and 90 warm and I have a humidifier going) and I've been misting him all day. I'm going to try to get him outside for a little exercise as there is somewhat of a sun here in CO today.

please help if you have advice! Thank you! (PS, I HAD a UVB light on him for the last 6 months. That and infrared. I think he was dehydrating, as I hadn't read anything until joining this forum that said he needed to be moist. I've learned a lot in a week--thank you all)


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## Seiryu (Nov 4, 2010)

The link didn't work for me. For mercury vapor bulbs, you MUST use a fixture that is a Ceramic fixture, not plastic.

Wattage depends entirely upon how far he is from the basking spot, and how big or open your enclosure is. Never just go by wattage, it varies so much.

I think you want Sulcatas basking spot to be between 95-105 F. 

You you want to keep the MVB on for 12-14 hours a day. At night, you could use the night bulb, but a Ceramic Heat emitter is best. It gives off no light, but gives off heat.


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## mckenzieg (Nov 4, 2010)

Thank you. I am using the top one here in the yellow box: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0002DHOE0/?tag=exoticpetnetw-20 It says it can be used for ceramic and infrared. IS THIS OK??

The temp is getting better. It was 80 before I bought the MVB and is 90 now. Thank you for the tip!


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## chadk (Nov 4, 2010)

How are you measuring your temps? Basking spot vs ambient temps? Warm and cool sides? What do you have for hides? While you do need higher temps available, they also benefit from being able to get out of the heat when the want.

The links don't work for me either, but most of the peststore lamps should work. They should be ceramic and say what wattage is recommended.

As for the 160 being too much, if you have it at the correct distance (or within the recommended range), and the temps are looking good, then you are set. If you have to raise the bulb too high to keep the temps correct and not too hot, and you lose the UVB benefit, then you need something like a 100watt probably.


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## Seiryu (Nov 4, 2010)

mckenzieg said:


> Thank you. I am using the top one here in the yellow box: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0002DHOE0/?tag=exoticpetnetw-20. It says it can be used for ceramic and infrared. IS THIS OK??
> 
> The temp is getting better. It was 80 before I bought the MVB and is 90 now. Thank you for the tip!



Ok the link worked. I had to take off the period at the end.

It looks like a ceramic fixture to me. You would need at least a 160w fixture. But do you have a Home Depot?

They sell ceramic fixtures for $10 and I think go up to 200w if I remember correctly.

But yes, how far is the mercury vapor bulb from the basking spot? If it's too far, you lose a lot of UVB rays. And 90 is still cool for basking, but better.


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## Yvonne G (Nov 4, 2010)

Seiryu said:


> Ok the link worked. I had to take off the period at the end.



I took off the period in the post for future reference.

Hi McKenzie:

I'm getting the impression that you are a little bit afraid of making your habitat too hot. As long as you mount the light at one end of the habitat, your little guy can go to the other end to cool off.

Another thing...your body temperature (being a warm-blooded mammal) is 98.6 degrees. Think about it...that's almost 100 degrees. Your personal body temperature is *almost 100 degrees!!!.* Your little baby needs to be able to get up to almost 100 degrees too, in order to digest his food. So, adjust that light up or down and measure the temperature under the light. If he can't get warm enough, his instinct tells him not to eat.


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## mckenzieg (Nov 4, 2010)

Yvonne:

That makes total sense. My snake-rearing friend said the same thing about body temperature yesterday. It does make a lot of sense. It looks like the 160 watt MVB is getting up to 95 on the hot side now--yay. Still, I am headed to the home depot because the lamp it is in is making me nervous. 

I just posted this but need final clarity: 
So at night, would it be best for me to have the moonbulb on and an infrared? Would that be hot enough or do I ALSO have to invest in a CHE? 

Can I just save the UVB for summer? I took it out and also took back the heating pad. I've been spraying his enclosure a lot today--it gets dry easily! But he actually ate some growing lettuce so that made me feel good, and I'm going to take him outside for at least 20 minutes today before I go to home depot. 

Thank you all.

Oh, and do you agree that the dial thermometers are not good enough? That I need to invest in a digital one? 

Thanks!



mckenzieg said:


> Yvonne:
> 
> That makes total sense. My snake-rearing friend said the same thing about body temperature yesterday. It does make a lot of sense. It looks like the 160 watt MVB is getting up to 95 on the hot side now--yay. Still, I am headed to the home depot because the lamp it is in is making me nervous.
> 
> ...


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## Seiryu (Nov 4, 2010)

mckenzieg said:


> That makes total sense. My snake-rearing friend said the same thing about body temperature yesterday. It does make a lot of sense. It looks like the 160 watt MVB is getting up to 95 on the hot side now--yay. Still, I am headed to the home depot because the lamp it is in is making me nervous.
> 
> I just posted this but need final clarity:
> So at night, would it be best for me to have the moonbulb on and an infrared? Would that be hot enough or do I ALSO have to invest in a CHE?
> ...



Yes, at the bare minimum, get a digital thermometer. Temp guns are more accurate, but more expensive if you can afford one.

Can you post a picture of the enclosure?

What do your house temps get to be at night at tort level, for you needing a night time bulb?

Some tortoises are ok with the colored night time bulbs, others are not. CHE's last a pretty long time, and emit no light.


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## mckenzieg (Nov 4, 2010)

I'm a pretty poor college kid, so buying the MVB, the new enclosure, the UVB, the infrared, the plants, and the humidifier don't qualify me for necessarily "affording" one, but I do love my tort and want to do what I can--will digital be okay for now, then?

Well, they just turned on the radiators in my apartment, so it's pretty warm. I just needed to know what to do about the evening. I have already an infrared and a moon light, and just bought the MVB. I took my UVB light out and I guess will save it for the summer? 

Thanks about the CHE's--i didn't realize they had no light. Would it suffice to use only an MVB and a CHE (MBV DAY, CHE NIGHT)?


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## tobibaby (Nov 4, 2010)

i have a basking light, a night heat light, and a uva and uvb light .. i have all three on during the day for 11-12 hrs and then at night i only have the night heat light which is purple.. theyre eyes are sensitive so they need to have dark time so they can rest their eyes.. i hope this makes sense oh yeah the basking light and the night heat light are 60 watts each, so i have 120 during the day so it can be warm for him and he tends to eat every hour or so


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## Livingstone (Nov 4, 2010)

I couldnt find this anywhere, but how far from the substrate is the light bulb?


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## Yvonne G (Nov 4, 2010)

mckenzieg said:


> . Would it suffice to use only an MVB and a CHE (MBV DAY, CHE NIGHT)?



If you can achieve the desired temperatures in the habitat, then yes, an MVB for daytime and a CHE during the night would be satisfactory.


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## mckenzieg (Nov 5, 2010)

Livingstone:

The lamp is not in an optimal position for the time being, as it is clamped to the radiator right beside the tank and I have been informed that a mercury vapor bulb needs to be pointing completely downwards. I plan to remedy this this evening. 

What I really need is a digital thermometer to figure out whether my temps are correct enough to leave the habitat as is. Is 70 cool, 80 warm sufficient for the evening?

Thanks! And this is warm enough for your little guy? 

The mercury makes me nervous because it is so powerful it gives me headaches. Just makes me scared that I'm doing the wrong thing...



tobibaby said:


> i have a basking light, a night heat light, and a uva and uvb light .. i have all three on during the day for 11-12 hrs and then at night i only have the night heat light which is purple.. theyre eyes are sensitive so they need to have dark time so they can rest their eyes.. i hope this makes sense oh yeah the basking light and the night heat light are 60 watts each, so i have 120 during the day so it can be warm for him and he tends to eat every hour or so


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## tobibaby (Nov 5, 2010)

yes it is, it gets about 95-100 right under the light and 80 is the cool side.. but of course at night the cool side can get down to 75 or 70 but that doesnt hurt him since its night time and if he is super cold right under the night light it is about 85-88 so far he is super happy, active and a little devil.. knock on wood


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## Seiryu (Nov 5, 2010)

mckenzieg said:


> What I really need is a digital thermometer to figure out whether my temps are correct enough to leave the habitat as is. Is 70 cool, 80 warm sufficient for the evening?





Are you talking 80 for basking, or 80 for ambient temp on the warm side?

cool side is fine at 70, warm side is fine at 80 and then you'd need the basking spot at 95-100


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## mckenzieg (Nov 5, 2010)

basking spot even at night?? I'm just talking about the temperatures on the dials...I'm not measuring ambient light? Which I imagine means the temperature of the room in general?


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## Yvonne G (Nov 5, 2010)

No, at night the tortoise is going to be in his hiding place and he will stay there until morning. So you want the ambient temperature (the temperature of the room) to be in the 70's. If the room is cooler than 70 degrees then you will have to provide some sort of heat without light over the habitat at night.

What Rob (Seiryu) is talking about is:

You have a UV/heat light fixture that is "on" during the daytime. This UV/heat fixture provides UVB plus heat plus light for the tortoise. If all you have on during the day is this fixture, then you will have a cool or room temperature side in the habitat and a hot side (because the fixture is mounted at one end of the habitat). So, directly under the light, straight down from the bulb, the temperature should be between 100 and 110 degrees. Naturally, the further you move the thermometer away from directly under the light, the cooler the temperature will be. So the hot side, not directly under the light, should be in the 80's and the other side, the room temperature side, should be in the 70's.


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## mckenzieg (Nov 5, 2010)

I bet my room is in the 70s now that they have turned on the radiators, but last night I still had a moon light on at 50 watts and an incandescent 50 watt, and it was about 70/80, though as you have all said, the % of error of the dial thermometers suck, so I'm buying a digital one after work today. 

Yvonne: I just sent you a PM, but you've done a pretty great job of answering what I was asking about, so I can't thank you again.

I'm so sorry if I am coming off daft, I just have so many people saying different things that I was just a bit confused.


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## Yvonne G (Nov 5, 2010)

Its ok, McKenzie. We're here to help, and we want to see that you get it right so your little guy grows and stays healthy. Just bear in mind that snakes and tortoises require different care. You can't bring what the snake guy is telling you to the tortoise table.


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## J. Ellis (Nov 5, 2010)

emysemys said:


> Its ok, McKenzie. We're here to help, and we want to see that you get it right so your little guy grows and stays healthy. Just bear in mind that snakes and tortoises require different care. You can't bring what the snake guy is telling you to the *tortoise table*.



Pun intended, right Yvonne? 

McKenzie, as long as you keep asking questions you'll never come off daft. It's the ignorant person who doesn't know that they just don't know.


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## mckenzieg (Nov 5, 2010)

Thanks, guys. That means a lot. I've just learned so much here in the past few weeks, i can't thank you all enough. And thank you for allowing me to ask repetitive, what-might-come-off-as-common-sense questions. I'd rather ask them and know how to take care of my little fellow than not ask at all, of course!

You guys are simply the best.

I'm off to buy a ceramic fixture and digital thermometer!


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## mckenzieg (Nov 6, 2010)

I purchased this: http://www.klockit.com/products/product.aspx?sku=16080

Is this a good monitor?

P.S. where should it be placed? It came with a magnet...and says to keep out of water...


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## Livingstone (Nov 6, 2010)

mckenzieg said:


> Livingstone:
> 
> The lamp is not in an optimal position for the time being, as it is clamped to the radiator right beside the tank and I have been informed that a mercury vapor bulb needs to be pointing completely downwards. I plan to remedy this this evening.



Well until you do, let me help you. In a house where the ambient air temp is 73 deg. A 100watt MVB needs to be 11 inches from the substrate surface to yield a high 90's to 105 deg. basking spot. If you are using a 160watt MVB then a distance of 16 inches from the substrate to give the same temp. Hope this helps. 

***My calculation also implies a 75% humidity reading from a damp substrate. However the surface is dry at the time of the reading, so what Im telling you should hold true.


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## mckenzieg (Nov 7, 2010)

Thanks!!


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## tortoisenerd (Nov 7, 2010)

Those 100 Watt MVBs usually have a useful & safe range from 12-18 inches from the substrate. Where you need to place it to get a correct basking temp varies based on ambient temperature. 11 inches will be too close as the tort could get too much UVB (same with at greater than 18 inches the tort isn't getting useful UVB). Experiment with the distance without the tort under it, using an accurate thermometer like a temp gun. The MVBs take a few hours to warm up, so you want to know the absolute max temp it will get (if you measures the temp 30 minutes after turning it on, it might still get 5-10 deg hotter as the day went on). Yes, the MVB needs the bulb face parallel to the substrate in a ceramic socket fixture, and very secure so that it won't be bumped. Having it at an angle will both reduce the bulb life (and have it more likely to blow), and have it dangerous for the tort's eyesight. That thermometer you showed can't really be used very well to measure basking temp. You want something like a temp gun where you aim and press a button for instant readings, so in 30 seconds you can know how the entire gradient is (not move the probe, wait 20 minutes for a reading, then move it again). I spent about $25 on a temp gun and it was one of the best tort supply purchases I ever made. Good luck!


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