# Sick baby redfoot )=



## Delilah1623 (Jan 13, 2015)

My baby redfoot is not doing well. He hasn't pooped in about a week and stopped eating a few days ago. The last 2 days he doesn't want to open his eyes unless I run him under warm water for a bit. 

Cool end of his tank is 80. Hot end is 96. He gets baths almost every day. Humidity is tough right now because of where I live but ranges between 60 and 80%. 

Diet is a mix of spring mix, mazuri and ocassional green peppers and mushrooms. 

I have tried carrot food soaks the last 2 days, twice a day. He did eat a little yesterday, some mazuri and green pepper mushed up with carrot baby food. I tried to get him to eat some aloe today to see if he would poop but he wasn't interested. 

Any ideas of what else to try? I am worried I am going to lose my baby )=


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## Delilah1623 (Jan 13, 2015)

My baby redfoot is not doing well. He hasn't pooped in about a week and stopped eating a few days ago. The last 2 days he doesn't want to open his eyes unless I run him under warm water for a bit. 

Cool end of his tank is 80. Hot end is 96. He gets baths almost every day. Humidity is tough right now because of where I live but ranges between 60 and 80%. 

Diet is a mix of spring mix, mazuri and ocassional green peppers and mushrooms. 

I have tried carrot food soaks the last 2 days, twice a day. He did eat a little yesterday, some mazuri and green pepper mushed up with carrot baby food. I tried to get him to eat some aloe today to see if he would poop but he wasn't interested. 

Any ideas of what else to try? I am worried I am going to lose my baby )=


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## pfara (Jan 13, 2015)

What type of lighting do you use?


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## Delilah1623 (Jan 13, 2015)

I have a 18" reptisun strip light and a 100 watt CHE .


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## Delilah1623 (Jan 13, 2015)

I am always kind of a worrier but he is definitely not doing well )=


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## parrotlady (Jan 13, 2015)

Try to soak him a couple times a day, be sure to keep him warm. Have you tried any fruit? Redfoots need some, also they need protein. I give mine chicken, sliced mushrooms. Btw mine will eat pear or strawberries when they are not interested in eating. Something is wrong! Redfoots usually are good eaters. Does your little guy have any mucus coming from his nose, does he have open eyes, if not does he open them when soaked in warm water. I know this is a lot of questions. The most important thing is to keep him warm and hydrated until we can try to figure out what is wrong. It maybe something small. Something in your setup? Substrate, bulbs used for UVB and heat, maybe a faulty heat gun, maybe the enclosure temps you gave are not accurate.


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## pfara (Jan 13, 2015)

Man, I wish I knew how to help. I hope someone can point you in the right direction soon. I don't see anything in the husbandry that you've described that would cause those issues. Sometimes the use of CFL bulbs can cause those problems (which is why I asked about lighting). 

I'm pulling for the both of you.


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## parrotlady (Jan 13, 2015)

I retread your post, try putting some eye ointment on his eyes to keep them moist. Maybe he is not eating because he cannot see his food. The eye ointment won't hurt him.


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## Delilah1623 (Jan 13, 2015)

I did tons of research before and after I got him (still do) and everything was going well and he's been thriving until about a week or so ago. I don't know what's going on.


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## Momof4 (Jan 13, 2015)

Are you feeding him fruit? Papaya, mango, strawberries , kiwi are some favorites. Mine love banana but only in small amounts. Do you think he isn't pooping because he's blocked up or did he stop eating because he blocked. When mine where little i gave them a small drizzle of mineral oil mixed in with banana and mazuri.


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## Delilah1623 (Jan 13, 2015)

I give him fruit once or twice a week. 

It seemed like he was try to poop today in his bath... He wiggled his around a little and some bubbles came out but nothing else. 

I will try the mineral oil. Hopefully he will eat something.


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## Delilah1623 (Jan 13, 2015)

It seems like the not pooping started before the not eating but it's hard to say.


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## AmRoKo (Jan 14, 2015)

He might be constipated, try giving him some of the mineral oil and some high water type foods and fruit to see if that helps.

He might also have an eye infection/respiratory infection. If you can see his eyes check and see if there are any white patches on or near the pupil.


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## Delilah1623 (Jan 14, 2015)

He's eyes look fine when he opens them. And his nose has been dry, no snot or bubbles.


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## Delilah1623 (Jan 14, 2015)

I have given him some fruit. He does get mushrooms every so often and once in a while some shrimp or other protein source. 

I have put ointment in his eyes the last 2 days and no improvement with that either.


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## Randi (Jan 14, 2015)

And you are sure he isn't pooping and eating it? My cherry head likes to poop and eat hers. The only time she won't is if she has pooped while she is bathing. Apparently it's a very common thing.

Be careful with the mineral oil. Start with a drop or two for the first day and see what happens. Then add more if no change.

If you are worried about keeping hydrated, etc, buy unflavored pedialyte and mix it in with the baths. Will provide hydration and some electrolytes. Your tort may be a little sticky. You can even use it when you mist. I found these types of soaks have helped me in many situations with various animals. 

Best of luck to you and your baby! Hoping your baby gets better fast.


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## stojanovski92113 (Jan 14, 2015)

I'm sorry  I hope he starts to eat today!!!! Poor baby. Just keep him warm & do your soaks. Hopefully the carrot soaks will stimulate his wanting to eat. I'm not familiar with your lighting, I've always used MVBs. Did you add new substrate recently? I'm rooting for him!! Keep us updated.


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## AmRoKo (Jan 14, 2015)

Try to get him walking a lot, because if he's backed up he needs to get his metabolism revved up so he can pass the blockage.


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## crimson_lotus (Jan 14, 2015)

What is your substrate? My tortoise ate a rock once...took her a while to pass it, but given your tortoise isn't opening her eyes, I highly doubt it's just constipation. Some substrates can irritate tortoises eyes so it's something to keep in mind.

How does her shell feel? Is it hard? Do you know how she started out?


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## Delilah1623 (Jan 14, 2015)

I bumped up the temps a bit. He seemed perkier this morning, has his eyes open and was giving me an evil glare when I put him in his bath. 

After he did eat some mazuri with some aloe and kiwi mixed in. Hopefully whatever it was is getting better. 

Substrate is coconut coir. There are no rocks in there he could have eaten.


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## Delilah1623 (Jan 14, 2015)

Shell feels hard, nothing unusual there. I got her from Tortoise Supply which is highly respected on the forum so I am thinking it's something on my end. I've had him since October and he's been doing really well until about a week ago.


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## oscar (Jan 14, 2015)

I find my infrared thermometer to be useful in telling me the temp.. Of my tortoise and the different spots in there enclosure. I would get some sphagnum moss and put some of that over you coir I have found my red foots love to burrow on it and holds moisture. Usually get it at lowes in garden dept. do you have a top over his enclosure? Hope he is feeling better soon.


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## Delilah1623 (Jan 23, 2015)

He still just keeps getting worse )= I have tried everything here and nothing is working. He barely moves now and when he is in the bath I worry that he's going to drown because he doesn't even have the strength to lift his head up. I don't know what else to try... I am at the point where I feel like I am being cruel by trying all these things and trying to feed him.


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## sissyofone (Jan 23, 2015)

Delilah hello and its nice to meet you. How often are you soaking your little one? Have you tried putting carrot baby food in the soak water? Your little one will absorb some nutrition from the baby food. What kind of light are you using? How old is your lil tort?


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## crimson_lotus (Jan 23, 2015)

Where did you get him? I hate to say it but it could be hatchling failure syndrome if they are started out wrong. How old is he? Do you have any coil bulb in the enclosure? This can cause eye problems and if they can't see their food, they won't eat. Is his shell soft?


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## sissyofone (Jan 23, 2015)

Is their mucous or bubbles coming form the eyes or nose? I wouldn't let the temps fall below about 85 degrees. What are you housing the little one in? I'm sorry for so many questions. But these things I've asked about are all very important where the little tort is concerned.


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## Delilah1623 (Jan 23, 2015)

There were more posts on this with more details but for some reason they are not showing up. I have tried baby food soaks. Vitamin water soaks. Mineral oil. 

I got him from Tortoise Supply in October. 

No coil bulb. He has a reptisun 5.0 18" strip light and a CHE. Low end of the temperature range is 84 degrees. 

She'll is not soft. No bubbles or anything coming from his nose.


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## sissyofone (Jan 23, 2015)

Was it eating and thriving when you got it in Oct.? Did you contact Tortoise Supply? I'm going to attempt to get some more experienced members over to help. @ Yvonne G. And @ N2TORTS


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## crimson_lotus (Jan 24, 2015)

@Yvonne G @N2TORTS


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## Randi (Jan 24, 2015)

Could it be your humidity? High heat and low humidity will cause the tort to dehydrate.

My heat was high with low humidity and mine stopped eating like her normal self for two days. I found that my temp probe was not reading properly and my basking spot was 40 degrees celcius and up!! I believe aestevation is the word - too hot and too dry so they go into preservation mode? I am not positive on that or the spelling.

Mine was also keeping her eyes shut until I corrected the humidity with a closed chamber. She is eating a lot more now and is a lot more active. I'm wondering if it's not to do with humidity.


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## N2TORTS (Jan 24, 2015)

Like Sissy and others have mentioned…..
Keep your temps at a constant 86-90….during this time. Also not just “running him” under water. Let him soak for 10-15 mins in a warm shallow bath. Tortoises can absorbed water from the vent area as well as hydration thru the skin. Eating is a good sign, but don’t worry too much about diet right now. Tortoises can go many weeks without eating as long as they stay hydrated. Most RI infections will need some sort of anti-biotic from the Vet to knock the virus out.


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## Delilah1623 (Jan 24, 2015)

Humidity is usually around 80%. Never falls below 60.

Temp does not fall below 84. 

The running him under water is in addition to twice daily soaks of 30 to 45 minutes. 

He hasn't eaten in about 2 weeks. 

There is no open mouth breathing or nose bubbles. Could it still be a respite infection?


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## N2TORTS (Jan 24, 2015)

how old is this animal?


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## Delilah1623 (Jan 24, 2015)

I got him in October as a hatchling. He is not very old but I am not sure on the exact age.


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## Delilah1623 (Jan 24, 2015)

I had posted this pic a week or so ago on the thread but now it's gone so I am posting again just in case anyone notices anything that I didn't in his appearance.


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## AmRoKo (Jan 24, 2015)

When you're checking the temperature are you checking it right at the substrate level?


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## Delilah1623 (Jan 24, 2015)

Yes. I have a probe thermometer in there all the time and check it with a heat gun every few days to make sure nothing changed. 


AmRoKo said:


> When you're checking the temperature are you checking it right at the substrate level?


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## AmRoKo (Jan 24, 2015)

Delilah1623 said:


> Yes. I have a probe thermometer in there all the time and check it with a heat gun every few days to make sure nothing changed.



Okay, just making sure that your checking at substrate level and not just ambient because the substrate can be cooler/hotter than the ambient at times and that can cause problems. If I think of anything else I'll ask but it just sounds like so far that your doing all the right stuff so I don't know whats going on, it might be RI and just isn't showing the normal symptoms of runny nose/wheezing/sneezing. But I'm not positive.


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## stojanovski92113 (Jan 24, 2015)

Oh man...I'm sorry! I hope he pulls through this!!!


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## ascott (Jan 25, 2015)

Delilah1623 said:


> My baby redfoot is not doing well. He hasn't pooped in about a week and stopped eating a few days ago. The last 2 days he doesn't want to open his eyes unless I run him under warm water for a bit.
> 
> Cool end of his tank is 80. Hot end is 96. He gets baths almost every day. Humidity is tough right now because of where I live but ranges between 60 and 80%.
> 
> ...




Is this tortoise house alone? 
What type of uva/uvb bulb are you using? If Mercury Vapor Bulb, how close is the bulb to the surface of the tortoise?
The picture you show is of a tortoise that is ailing/having issues....


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## Delilah1623 (Jan 25, 2015)

He is housed alone. Bulbs are a CHE and a reptisun 5.0 18" strip light about 11" away....

Yeah... I realize he is obviously very sick. I just have no idea what.


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## Randi (Jan 25, 2015)

I have racked my brain and looked back at the picture.. your tort seems to have very irritated eyes that are almost swollen shut. That's about the only thing I see wrong. You are doing all that you can and it seems all husbandry is on point. I'm sorry for all you are going through. Hoping that things improve. Wish I could help more


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## Delilah1623 (Jan 25, 2015)

Randi said:


> I have racked my brain and looked back at the picture.. your tort seems to have very irritated eyes that are almost swollen shut. That's about the only thing I see wrong. You are doing all that you can and it seems all husbandry is on point. I'm sorry for all you are going through. Hoping that things improve. Wish I could help more


The swollen eyes started about a week and a half after he stopped eating so I think it's a symptom rather than the cause of anything. I just have no idea what is wrong. I thought I was doing everything right )=


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## stojanovski92113 (Jan 25, 2015)

What kind of substrate are you using?


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## Delilah1623 (Jan 25, 2015)

Coconut coir. Switched it all out amd scrubbed the tank last weekend in case there was something in there causing the problem. Did not seem to make a difference.


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## stojanovski92113 (Jan 25, 2015)

Delilah1623 said:


> Coconut coir. Switched it all out amd scrubbed the tank last weekend in case there was something in there causing the problem. Did not seem to make a difference.


Hmmm...man not sure what to say.


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## crimson_lotus (Jan 25, 2015)

I just want to say that you are doing an amazing job trying to make your tortoise better. Everything you're saying you're doing is on point, and you are a wonderful tortoise mom. I'm sorry that I can't provide any helpful assistance as to what's going on with your tortoise but I just wanted you to know that.


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## jaizei (Jan 25, 2015)

Delilah1623 said:


> He is housed alone. Bulbs are a CHE and a reptisun 5.0 18" strip light about 11" away....
> 
> Yeah... I realize he is obviously very sick. I just have no idea what.




It's easy to let the forum play doctor but the longer you wait to go to the vet, the more difficult it could become to 'fix' the problem. I typically try to avoid these threads but my advice would be that if there hasn't been improvement within a week or the animal has gotten worse, it's time for the vet.


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## Delilah1623 (Jan 31, 2015)

He was already at the vet. They had given me the eye ointment but had no other suggestions beyond what I was already doing. There is one vet in my town who is supposed to be well educated on tortoises but had surgery and is out until March or April. Her husband is a vet at the same clinic and I was going to take him for a second opinion and they said the vet could talk to his wife about him also but Theodore passed away during the night and was already gone the morning he was supposed to go see the new vet.

Thanks everyone for your help. I wish I had better news to share.


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## stojanovski92113 (Jan 31, 2015)

Delilah1623 said:


> He was already at the vet. They had given me the eye ointment but had no other suggestions beyond what I was already doing. There is one vet in my town who is supposed to be well educated on tortoises but had surgery and is out until March or April. Her husband is a vet at the same clinic and I was going to take him for a second opinion and they said the vet could talk to his wife about him also but Theodore passed away during the night and was already gone the morning he was supposed to go see the new vet.
> 
> Thanks everyone for your help. I wish I had better news to share.


Ooohhhh....I'm soooo sorry for your loss  you really did try to do everything for him.


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## Delilah1623 (Jan 31, 2015)

Thank you. I feel like I failed him. I just have no idea what it was )= pretty heartbroken right now.


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## stojanovski92113 (Jan 31, 2015)

No...you didn't fail him!! I know how you are feeling. I lost my baby sulcata & I did everything possible, but sometimes we can't control, nor find out what the cause was. It sounds like he was hindering something. But you really did try!!!


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## Momof4 (Jan 31, 2015)

Delilah I'm sending hugs your way!! I'm so sorry.


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## Heather H (Jan 31, 2015)

I'm so sorry you lost your baby. You tried everything. Don't think you failed him because you didn't. Hugs


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## AmRoKo (Feb 1, 2015)

I am sorry to hear that your baby didn't make it.


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## tortioseirie (Jun 2, 2015)

Did you have any update on your baby? I'm having the same troubles


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## ZEROPILOT (Jun 2, 2015)

Your humidity needs a bump up. (The eyes look watery.)
Have you changed anything at all? No matter how small?


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## Mantissa3 (Jun 2, 2015)

Delilah1623 said:


> Thank you. I feel like I failed him. I just have no idea what it was )= pretty heartbroken right now.



Hi Delilah: I want to comment on what you said here about feeling like you failed him - YOU DID NOT FAIL YOUR BABY!!! You are a caring, loving, attentive tortie mommie and my heart is breaking for you right now. I just had a devastating loss as you did, so I wanted you to know that many of us struggle as you did- knowing "the right thing to do" in these horrific situations is impossible.

My husband Cliff and I raised dear little perfect baby Gibby from a little hatchling until he was 3 years old. He just died 2 weeks ago. We chose to go the aggressive vet/medical route with Gibby because a local clinic was supposed to be "excellent at exotic pet medicine". We NEVER got a diagnosis, and the vet just kept giving him chemicals- she gave us 2 medications before she even sent out for a fecal float to determine whether he had parasites or not, and we didn't even know how to get him to open his mouth to give him the oral meds. It was a total case management (or lack of case management) disaster from start to finish!

He died under "vet care" and we still don't know why. 3 weeks prior to his death, Gibson was a healthy, happy, active 3 year old with a lovely, predictable routine, food and bathing preferences, and was sitting on our laps and roaming the yard as he had done for his entire 3 years on earth. Suddenly, he stopped eating, stopped pooping, his urine was dark, and then the "experienced vet" poisoned him to death with too much injected fluids and a strange mix of chemicals, most of which he didn't even get because we couldn't get his mouth open and refused to traumatize him by prying at his face...

I want you to know that you did absolutely EVERYTHING concerned, loving tortoise companion could've done. You have no idea whether he had genetic issues, or whether he had a systemic infection or virus. By the time these red foot babies present with symptoms, the medical issues are so far advanced that you barely have time to diagnose and react. Couple that with the fact that most experienced herp vets still don't get many patients, and it is nearly impossible to get their help in time to save a baby with failing health.

If you want to, and if you think it may help ease your pain due to knowing you are not alone, and that some of us are going through the very same second-guessing and grieving you are experiencing, please read my thread and the responses here: http://www.tortoiseforum.org/thread...-good-little-gibby-my-heart-is-broken.119101/

For future reference, please read this- NEVER let a vet inject anything in your tortoises hind legs or under his/her shell in the hind portion of her/his body - this is what ultimately caused Gibson's death: http://www.tortoiseforum.org/thread...dration-do-not-do-it-at-this-location.118867/

Finally - here is the account of our mystery health problem that led to us deciding to take aggressive action with veterinary help, which did nothing for our baby except possibly stress him more, and ultimately led to his premature death due to an "experienced exotic vet's" fumbling and extermeley poor case management: http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/green-and-yellow-mucous-please-help-with-experiences.118173/

For whatever it's worth at this point in your grieving process, if I had it to do over again, I would've done what you did - see the vet once, keep the baby home with good temperatures and lots of warm soaks, a bit of mineral oil, and loved on Gibby rather than driving him around to vets and stressing him during his last 2 weeks on Earth. You did the right thing, loving your baby and reaching out here on the Forum...

I'm so very sorry and hope your heart heals soon and that you will remember the good times and cherish your other little one as you did for the one you lost.

hugs, Karen, Cliff, Bump and Pumpkin


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## Delilah1623 (Jun 2, 2015)

Not sure what happened with this thread...
Sometimes it shows everything sometimes several pages are missing. 

Theodore did pass away back in January.


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## Delilah1623 (Jun 2, 2015)

Thank you for your kind words. I do still wonder if it is something I did wrong. It's hard to lose a little one )=


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## Yvonne G (Jun 2, 2015)

Aw, darn it. I'm so sorry this happeded.


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## Yvonne G (Jun 2, 2015)

Delilah1623 said:


> Not sure what happened with this thread...
> Sometimes it shows everything sometimes several pages are missing.
> 
> Theodore did pass away back in January.



You had two threads going with the same subject title. I found them both and merged them into one just now.


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