# My first tortoise enclosure, anything wrong?



## Jaxattack (Jun 22, 2021)

I just built my first tortoise table, I originally had my baby redfoot I a Tupperware container but decided he deserved better. It is 6 foot by 2 foot with a hot hide and a cold hide. I am getting sphagnum moss later this week. I was wondering if there was anything I could improve.


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## Jaxattack (Jun 22, 2021)

Jaxattack said:


> I just built my first tortoise table, I originally had my baby redfoot I a Tupperware container but decided he deserved better. It is 6 foot by 2 foot with a hot hide and a cold hide. I am getting sphagnum moss later this week. I was wondering if there was anything I could improve.


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## wellington (Jun 22, 2021)

Do not use the moss. They eat it and it gets tangled around limbs 
Next you need to cover the enclosure. They need 80% humidity and that can't happen in an open table. 
If you put orchid bark on top of the substrate and wet the bottom substrate with the enclosure covered it will keep temps and humidity much better.


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## Jaxattack (Jun 22, 2021)

wellington said:


> Do not use the moss. They eat it and it gets tangled around limbs
> Next you need to cover the enclosure. They need 80% humidity and that can't happen in an open table.
> If you put orchid bark on top of the substrate and wet the bottom substrate with the enclosure covered it will keep temps and humidity much better.


Ok, thanks


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## Jaxattack (Jun 22, 2021)

wellington said:


> Do not use the moss. They eat it and it gets tangled around limbs
> Next you need to cover the enclosure. They need 80% humidity and that can't happen in an open table.
> If you put orchid bark on top of the substrate and wet the bottom substrate with the enclosure covered it will keep temps and humidity much better.


Also, my baby redfoot spends all day sleeping, how can I fix this


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## wellington (Jun 22, 2021)

Post temps, day and night warm spot cooler spot.
Type of lighting and heating you are usung?
Add the cover and get humidity up and put in more plants. 
Also they don't like change. Getting a new home is a big change. Thry will take time to get used to the change and will act normal again.
So now is a good time to make all the other changes suggested so she can get used to all of it at once.


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## Jaxattack (Jun 22, 2021)

I don't have thing that tells heat but if I had to guess basking spot would be 90+ and the rest low 80s


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## Jaxattack (Jun 22, 2021)

He was like this in his old enclosure too


Jaxattack said:


> I don't have thing that tells heat but if I had to guess basking spot would be 90+ and the rest low 80s


I have a 160 watt uva bulb and I don't remember the name but it's the spiral uvb bulb.


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## Jaxattack (Jun 22, 2021)

wellington said:


> Post temps, day and night warm spot cooler spot.
> Type of lighting and heating you are usung?
> Add the cover and get humidity up and put in more plants.
> Also they don't like change. Getting a new home is a big change. Thry will take time to get used to the change and will act normal again.
> So now is a good time to make all the other changes suggested so she can get used to all of it at once.


Could I use like a human thermometer to see the temp?


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## wellington (Jun 22, 2021)

I don't know if that would work properly.
Places like home depot menards or hardware stores have the digital which is best for like 10 bucks.
Pick up a point and shoot temp gun too. They are also around 10 bucks.


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## harrythetortoise (Jun 22, 2021)

Jaxattack said:


> He was like this in his old enclosure too
> 
> I have a 160 watt uva bulb and I don't remember the name but it's the spiral uvb bulb.


Don’t use the spiral bulb - they can damage tortoise eyes and eventually they will deteriorate. Use zoomed T5 HO 5.0 for redfoots.


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## ZenHerper (Jun 22, 2021)

Temperature and humidity are critical for Redfoots throughout their entire life. You have to know those values exactly in order to know if the habitat is safe and healthful. Temperatures should stay in the 80s. High 70s is too low, 90*F is too high.

This is a good general set up discussion:






Redfoot care sheet via Northeast North America


@cdmay @Madkins007 @CharlieM @allegraf @kathyth @Yvonne G @Redfoot NERD @Will @Tom @Markw84 @TechnoCheese All, Please find and critique this draft care sheet. I have included a handful of people at the top that I recall conversing with fairly regularly on TFO prior to my previous hiatus or...




www.tortoiseforum.org





Redfoots are omnivores - they eat meat (insects, worms, eggs- boiled w the shell on, shrimp), fruits, and green vegetation. You can follow along this thread to get diet tips and help:





What a REDFOOT can eat....


After making today's feeding, I took a photo of the random days meal for my REDFOOT group and noticed that it's almost 100% fruit and it is 100% items that would make other species very ill. Most days i take for granted how easy it is to feed my tortoises. What a gigantic selection of foods a...




www.tortoiseforum.org


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## Jaxattack (Jun 22, 2021)

ZenHerper said:


> Temperature and humidity are critical for Redfoots throughout their entire life. You have to know those values exactly in order to know if the habitat is safe and healthful. Temperatures should stay in the 80s. High 70s is too low, 90*F is too high.
> 
> This is a good general set up discussion:
> 
> ...


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## Jaxattack (Jun 22, 2021)

So is he sleeping a lot because I am not feeding him meat?


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## method89 (Jun 22, 2021)

Jaxattack said:


> So is he sleeping a lot because I am not feeding him meat?


he's sleeping a lot because he is a baby and that's what they do. you also need to make the corrections that people suggested above.


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## Jannra (Jun 22, 2021)

Jaxattack said:


> So is he sleeping a lot because I am not feeding him meat?


 Baby tortoises can sleep up to 20 hours a day and that can be totally normal


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## jeff kushner (Jun 22, 2021)

Listen to the advice above, those guys know their stuff....

Just what every reptile keeper needs;

How does the guy with the alligators say? Choot 'em! and their homes.....note the temp range of the laser-thermometer is plenty wide enough for reptiles..


https://www.amazon.com/dp/B071NBJJ2Q/?tag=exoticpetnetw-20


I just grabbed this as an example for you but they do come cheaper, like 9-12 bucks. I use mine every time I make a temp-related change....and any other time I'm curious. 

Good luck!!

jeff


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## Cathie G (Jun 22, 2021)

Hello and welcome to the forum. ? Good luck with your little one and you're at the right place to succeed.?


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## Cathie G (Jun 22, 2021)

jeff kushner said:


> Listen to the advice above, those guys know their stuff....
> 
> Just what every reptile keeper needs;
> 
> ...


What's funny is I just ordered that thermometer gun because I needed one ? seems like a fair price to me if it's accurate. Thanks ? for the link.


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## Tom (Jun 22, 2021)

Jaxattack said:


> I just built my first tortoise table, I originally had my baby redfoot I a Tupperware container but decided he deserved better. It is 6 foot by 2 foot with a hot hide and a cold hide. I am getting sphagnum moss later this week. I was wondering if there was anything I could improve.


Its obvious that you spent a lot of time and effort to make this enclosure, but this is entirely the wrong type of enclosure and set up for a RF. This set up would be good for a small adult male Testudo, but that's about it.

RFs need warm temps and high humidity. That can't be done in an open table like this. They also do not need a basking lamp. This will make them pyramid. They need warm overall temps between 82-86 all the time day and night.

Your baby is likely sleeping because the conditions are too cold, too dry, the basking bulb is too harsh, and the cfl type UV bulb is probably burning its eyes. This is not a basking species.

Sorry to bum you out, but I'd put the baby back in the old tub until you can buy or build the right type of enclosure for your species.


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## Jaxattack (Jun 22, 2021)

Tom said:


> Its obvious that you spent a lot of time and effort to make this enclosure, but this is entirely the wrong type of enclosure and set up for a RF. This set up would be good for a small adult male Testudo, but that's about it.
> 
> RFs need warm temps and high humidity. That can't be done in an open table like this. They also do not need a basking lamp. This will make them pyramid. They need warm overall temps between 82-86 all the time day and night.
> 
> ...


So what kind of uva bulb should I have?


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## Jaxattack (Jun 22, 2021)

Jaxattack said:


> So what kind of uva bulb should I have?


And how should I increase humidity?


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## Jaxattack (Jun 22, 2021)

Jaxattack said:


> And how should I increase humidity?


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## Jaxattack (Jun 22, 2021)

What kind of cover should I add and how would it get uvb if there was cover


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## Frank_the_Tortoise_2020 (Jun 22, 2021)

Hi,
It’s great that you are seeking the correct advice and are serious about providing the best environment for your tortoise ?
For UV lighting, the Arcadia T5 UVB kit 12% is ideal.
To increase humidity you can add a plastic cover and cut holes for the lighting to sit on top and use orchid bark or coco coir as a substrate. Alternatively you could buy a vivarium.
I hope this helps ?


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## Tom (Jun 22, 2021)

Jaxattack said:


> So what kind of uva bulb should I have?


You don't need a UVA bulb. You are confusing that with a tortoise's need for UVB. Other RF keepers here recommend the Arcadia 6% HO tubes. Your RF will get some D3 through its diet and supplements, so high levels of UV are neither necessary, nor desirable. Moderate indoor levels will do the job, and occasional access to sunshine in a well shaded well planted outdoor enclosure will get the job done even better. I'd only use the indoor UV in winter, when you can't get your tortoise outside due to the cold.


Jaxattack said:


> And how should I increase humidity?


By using a closed chamber. The enclosure you made can't work. Its like heating your house in winter with no roof. The heat just floats away into the sky.


Jaxattack said:


> What kind of cover should I add and how would it get uvb if there was cover


You don't add a cover. You buy or build a proper closed chamber with the lights inside. Here is an example, but take note that I'm housing species that DO need a basking lamp. Yours does not.





New Stack of Animal Plastics CLosed Chambers


AKA: Tom's baby emporium. @GStars asked for a pic on my new baby raising enclosures the other day. I only had a partial, but I took a fuller one today. Each cage is 96x30 and divided in the middle into two 48x30 cages for starting babies. The colored tape on each upper right corner shows the...




tortoiseforum.org


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## Jaxattack (Jun 22, 2021)

Tom said:


> You don't need a UVA bulb. You are confusing that with a tortoise's need for UVB. Other RF keepers here recommend the Arcadia 6% HO tubes. Your RF will get some D3 through its diet and supplements, so high levels of UV are neither necessary, nor desirable. Moderate indoor levels will do the job, and occasional access to sunshine in a well shaded well planted outdoor enclosure will get the job done even better. I'd only use the indoor UV in winter, when you can't get your tortoise outside due to the cold.
> 
> By using a closed chamber. The enclosure you made can't work. Its like heating your house in winter with no roof. The heat just floats away into the sky.
> 
> ...


Not all of us are made of money


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## Jaxattack (Jun 22, 2021)

Jaxattack said:


> Not all of us are made of money


Ok, I am very confused. Everywhere else I see says I need uva light but "Tom" says it I bad to have it. I will add a cover, top layer of cypress mulch and a better uvb bulb, but I am still confused on lighting.


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## Jaxattack (Jun 22, 2021)

Jaxattack said:


> Ok, I am very confused. Everywhere else I see says I need uva light but "Tom" says it I bad to have it. I will add a cover, top layer of cypress mulch and a better uvb bulb, but I am still confused on lighting.


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## Jaxattack (Jun 22, 2021)

Also how should I get lighting in with a cover on top


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## Yvonne G (Jun 22, 2021)

Jaxattack said:


> Ok, I am very confused. Everywhere else I see says I need uva light but "Tom" says it I bad to have it. I will add a cover, top layer of cypress mulch and a better uvb bulb, but I am still confused on lighting.


Tortoises don't need UVA. They need UVB.


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## KarenSoCal (Jun 23, 2021)

Jaxattack said:


> Also how should I get lighting in with a cover on top


You need to understand that different species of tortoise need different care. Redfoot are very different from most other species in their lighting needs and diet.

Redfoot come from the tropical forests of Brazil and other South American countries. They live at the edge of the forest under the tree canopy overhead. The canopy filters the light so not much reaches the ground. This means that redfoot like dim light, and don't need much UVB, which comes from the sun, or from a UVB bulb.

Their diet is more inclusive than most tortoises...redfoot eat bugs and other animal protein, and can eat fruit. Most other species can't digest fruit or anything sweet, and don't eat animal protein.

As for the lights...redfoot can go outside in the sunshine in the warm summer months, but your winters are much too cold for them. Remember, they come from the jungle. So you will need to bring him inside for the winter, or build a large, heated box for him to sleep in outside. The box would need to be in a heated building so he could walk around and be warm.

Inside, you need a closed enclosure so the heat and humidity can be contained inside. A jungle is hot and humid, so his house needs to be as well.

A proper enclosure looks like this...



It has glass doors in the front, and the rest is 4ft x 2.5ft x 2ft high.

The ceiling has the fixtures for the lights, and a CHE for night heat...



This enclosure didn't have a UVB fixture, so I mounted one on the ceiling in the empty space.

There are many types of UVB bulbs, almost all of which are fine for lizards. But torts aren't lizards, and the bulbs are harmful to them.

The kind that the members have found to be the best, for a redfoot, is a 24in fixture that holds a 22in fluorescent tube UVB bulb. They are the best because they are reliable in the amount of UVB that they produce, they last a long time before replacement is necessary, and they are built with good quality and workmanship
They are a bit pricey the first time you buy it because you need to buy the fixture and the bulb. After your first purchase, you only need to buy the bulb. Here's what you need to get:



You want the 6% T5 HO in 24in.


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## KarenSoCal (Jun 23, 2021)

KarenSoCal said:


> You need to understand that different species of tortoise need different care. Redfoot are very different from most other species in their lighting needs and diet.
> 
> Redfoot come from the tropical forests of Brazil and other South American countries. They live at the edge of the forest under the tree canopy overhead. The canopy filters the light so not much reaches the ground. This means that redfoot like dim light, and don't need much UVB, which comes from the sun, or from a UVB bulb.
> 
> ...


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## Tom (Jun 23, 2021)

Jaxattack said:


> Not all of us are made of money


What does that have to do with anything?


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## Jaxattack (Jun 23, 2021)

So should I take out the uva bulb and put a CHE there instead?


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## Jaxattack (Jun 23, 2021)

I just purchased a non spiral uvb bulb and a ceramic heat emmiter from flookers. I also will get more plants, cypress mulch to put on top of the top soil and will put on a cover when I figure out what kind of cover I should get. Thanks everyone for all the help (except tom)I also started adding some worms and meat into his diet


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## Krista S (Jun 23, 2021)

You should take a look at grow tents. We have several members who are using a grow tent, placed on its side as enclosures for tortoises that need higher humidity. It’s a pretty affordable way to achieve what you need for your little one.

Here is one link in particular to a thread that has some good pictures and explanations: 





__





Leopard Tortoise | Stunted Growth, Bad Diet, Need Help


Hello, I have a 7 year old Leopard Tortoise. I got him when I was young and inexperienced, and I haven't taken the best care of him. I thought what I was doing was okay, but I am learning that just hasn't been the case. So I am here trying to make up for my lack of research and proper care of...




www.tortoiseforum.org





If you do a search on the forum for grow tents you’ll find a bunch more examples and information about them too. Pay particular attention to posts from @Srmcclure who is currently raising 2 tortoises in 2 different grow tent enclosures, and has done it successfully and beautifully. 

I wouldn’t write Tom off so quickly. He is one of the most experienced and knowledgeable experts on the forum. He gives a lot of his time to help provide guidance and share his wealth of knowledge so that we can have healthy and thriving tortoises. Many tortoises around the world are living better lives because of him.

I wasn’t aware that Fluker’s made UV fluorescent T5 fixtures and bulbs, but in Canada we usually don’t get all the options as those in the US. Make sure that what you ordered is a fluorescent tube and not a screw in bulb. The general rule for tortoises is, if the UV bulb screws into a regular dome fixture, it’s the wrong one. There aren’t any on the market that give off consistent UV rays and they tent to hurt and damage tortoises eyes.


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## Jaxattack (Jun 23, 2021)

Krista S said:


> You should take a look at grow tents. We have several members who are using a grow tent, placed on its side as enclosures for tortoises that need higher humidity. It’s a pretty affordable way to achieve what you need for your little one.
> 
> Here is one link in particular to a thread that has some good pictures and explanations:
> 
> ...


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## Cathie G (Jun 23, 2021)

Jaxattack said:


> I just purchased a non spiral uvb bulb and a ceramic heat emmiter from flookers. I also will get more plants, cypress mulch to put on top of the top soil and will put on a cover when I figure out what kind of cover I should get. Thanks everyone for all the help (except tom)I also started adding some worms and meat into his diet


I didn't know Flukers had bulbs and such. I've just always used their vitamins and eye wash. That's good to know because that company has products that are economical. Or cheap cheap! I love them but also Tom. He's always been a great help to me. Sometimes through texting the love doesn't shine through. But when people answer most of the time it means they care and want to help.? Good luck. It's a lot of info to take in all at once. But I'm sure you'll get it because you're trying.


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## Tom (Jun 23, 2021)

Jaxattack said:


> Thanks everyone for all the help (except tom)...


HA! Why is that?


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## Jan A (Jun 23, 2021)

Jaxattack said:


> Ok, I am very confused. Everywhere else I see says I need uva light but "Tom" says it I bad to have it. I will add a cover, top layer of cypress mulch and a better uvb bulb, but I am still confused on lighting.


As a newer member without a tort, the newest aspect of concerns about UVB lighting is (1) certain brands don't work or work for only a short period of time & then fail, (2) cannot be measured as to output without a guage, (3) may be responsible for harming the the tort's eyes or causing the tort's shell to dry out & cause pyramiding, & (4) may be unnecessary if your tort can be outside for an hour or so in sunlight 3 or 4 times/week. If you look thru some recent threads, you will see a debate ongoing about UVB lighting among several owners, including Tom, about new recommendations regarding UVB.

With respect to keeping temps & humidity up in indoor enclosures, especially for hatchlings & young torts, Tom's right. In any climate with colder temps, you can't with open enclosures. Again, look thru the recent threads. There are many owners who use a greenhouse tent over the open enclosure, mount their lights, etc., for cheap buying the tent on Amazon. 

There are all kinds of ways to get thru the care sheets & make adjustments, & almost everyone on this site has done it or this forum would not be here. They do it & they talk about what works & what doesn't work. We support each other all around the world. 

Do the very best you can do for your tort & offer him the best care you can. The care sheets represent the very best & current info we have, put together by owners & breeders with years & years of experience. And all of it is subject to factors like your climate, your home, your family, other animals you own, your job, your health & everything going on in your life.

Use the forum for questions. Look on Craigslist for used equipment. There are ways to get done what you want to get done, so don't be discouraged. There are people to bounce things off of & think things thru here. We are here to help.


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## Lady Boxsworth (Jun 23, 2021)

Jaxattack said:


> I just built my first tortoise table, I originally had my baby redfoot I a Tupperware container but decided he deserved better. It is 6 foot by 2 foot with a hot hide and a cold hide. I am getting sphagnum moss later this week. I was wondering if there was anything I could improve.


Just keep UVB light and high temp and humidity not one too low or high from the other. A recommend a reptile humidifier. Plus a place it can crawl into and soak. Good work


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## KarenSoCal (Jun 24, 2021)

Jaxattack said:


> So should I take out the uva bulb and put a CHE there instead?





Jaxattack said:


> I just purchased a non spiral uvb bulb and a ceramic heat emmiter from flookers.


The heat emitter is good. It will mostly be used at night when the lights are all off. The CHE requires a thermostat to control it automatically. The CHE gets plugged into the thermostat, and the thermostat plugs into the wall. You set the thermostat to the lowest temp you will allow the enclosure to get. When the temp goes below that setting, the t'stat will turn on the CHE. It will bring the temp up a few degrees, then the t'stat will shut off the CHE until the temp falls again...

The non spiral UVB bulb that you got is probably not the kind of UVB that you need. The non spirals do not tend to burn the eyes, so that's great! However, they are unreliable re' the amount of UVB that they actually put out. Additionally, if you got one that is a 'spot' type bulb, they funnel the heat and light into an intense 8spot. That concentrated point of light tends to dessicate the carapace, and eventually it actually burns the shell.

The proper UVB setup is a fluorescent tube type. The first purchase you must buy the fixture, and that usually comes with a bulb. After that first time, you only need to replace the bulb.
You only need a small dim light...this would work for you.

If you look at post #32 on this page you'll see that I already showed you what you need to get, but you went and got another bulb that's no good for your tort. We are trying to help you, but you need to allow the help. Tell us before you buy stuff, and we'll help to prevent buying wrong equipment.

Since you don't need a basking light, and the UVB light only needs to be on for 2 hours/day, you may want to leave the UVA bulb in there just for light to see. Or some folks put some LED lights in to light the tank dimly. Either works...it's your preference.


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## Jaxattack (Jun 24, 2021)

KarenSoCal said:


> The heat emitter is good. It will mostly be used at night when the lights are all off. The CHE requires a thermostat to control it automatically. The CHE gets plugged into the thermostat, and the thermostat plugs into the wall. You set the thermostat to the lowest temp you will allow the enclosure to get. When the temp goes below that setting, the t'stat will turn on the CHE. It will bring the temp up a few degrees, then the t'stat will shut off the CHE until the temp falls again...
> 
> The non spiral UVB bulb that you got is probably not the kind of UVB that you need. The non spirals do not tend to burn the eyes, so that's great! However, they are unreliable re' the amount of UVB that they actually put out. Additionally, if you got one that is a 'spot' type bulb, they funnel the heat and light into an intense 8spot. That concentrated point of light tends to dessicate the carapace, and eventually it actually burns the shell.
> 
> ...


I got the fluorescent bulb. Thanks for the help dude. Also does the CHE just go into a heat lamp?


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## Jaxattack (Jun 24, 2021)

I'm also pretty sure the CHE I got doesn't have a thermostat so I might just turn it on at night


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## KarenSoCal (Jun 24, 2021)

Jaxattack said:


> I got the fluorescent bulb. Thanks for the help dude. Also does the CHE just go into a heat lamp?





Jaxattack said:


> I'm also pretty sure the CHE I got doesn't have a thermostat so I might just turn it on at night


The CHE can just go into a ceramic socket, or into a dome holder that has a ceramic socket. CHE's burn VERY hot, so the ceramic is essential to not melt the socket.

The thermostat does not come with the CHE...it's a separate purchase. If you turn on the CHE, even only at night, it will constantly be on and could cook your tort. Plus it will cost a lot of electricity to run.

The t'stat will turn the CHE on only when the temp drops enough for it to be necessary, then shuts it off when the temp gets a few degrees warmer, just like the t'stat on your furnace at home. 

They are not very expensive. You can order one from Amazon, or buy one at a well stocked pet store.

This is a really nice one. It has 2 outlets in case you need another CHE, and you can set a temp for daytime and a temp for night. Inkbird is a good product.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01486LZ50/?tag=exoticpetnetw-20


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## Jaxattack (Jun 25, 2021)

KarenSoCal said:


> The CHE can just go into a ceramic socket, or into a dome holder that has a ceramic socket. CHE's burn VERY hot, so the ceramic is essential to not melt the socket.
> 
> The thermostat does not come with the CHE...it's a separate purchase. If you turn on the CHE, even only at night, it will constantly be on and could cook your tort. Plus it will cost a lot of electricity to run.
> 
> ...


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## Jaxattack (Jul 10, 2022)

Tom said:


> You don't need a UVA bulb. You are confusing that with a tortoise's need for UVB. Other RF keepers here recommend the Arcadia 6% HO tubes. Your RF will get some D3 through its diet and supplements, so high levels of UV are neither necessary, nor desirable. Moderate indoor levels will do the job, and occasional access to sunshine in a well shaded well planted outdoor enclosure will get the job done even better. I'd only use the indoor UV in winter, when you can't get your tortoise outside due to the cold.
> 
> By using a closed chamber. The enclosure you made can't work. Its like heating your house in winter with no roof. The heat just floats away into the sky.
> 
> ...


I have since covered the top with acrylic except for the area with the CHEs and uvb. I have a flourescent UVB now and have bark, mulch and moss on the top layer. The tortoise is doing good, sorry I snapped a little bit thanks for the help. I still suck at taking care of plants though.


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## SinLA (Jul 10, 2022)

I can't tell, but I think what you are using for water is not good for water - its too deep and they can flip and drown. I do have the same thing because I inherited it, but I use it for food (tho my guy is larger). I recommend a shallow plant saucer for water...


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## Jaxattack (Jul 11, 2022)

SinLA said:


> I can't tell, but I think what you are using for water is not good for water - its too deep and they can flip and drown. I do have the same thing because I inherited it, but I use it for food (tho my guy is larger). I recommend a shallow plant saucer for water...


He has 3 other water bowls in there and he rarely uses that one it is mostly for humidity purposes but I don't fill it up all the way for that reason


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