# My tortoise gets red swollen eyes



## Jsanford (Jan 24, 2020)

Hi, I’m new here. I have a 1 1/2 year old desert tortoise (actually I have two), but the little guy I’m talking about today is named Prickles. He keeps getting red swollen eyes. But as quickly as they swell & turn red they go back to normal. It’s the strangest thing! I have taken him to a vet and they gave me eye drops, and medicine to help him poop (she thinks he might be straining to go to the bathroom). I give him warm soaks a few times a day to see if that helps with his constipation. Has anyone else had this happen to their tortoise? It’s really starting to worry me. 
(It even gets worse than it is in this picture.)


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## KronksMom (Jan 24, 2020)

What kind of substrate are you using? A lot of times their eyes get irritated because they're getting sand or something else in them.


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## Jsanford (Jan 24, 2020)

This is what I use


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## Yvonne G (Jan 24, 2020)

That's the nictitating membrane, or third eyelid. It's caused by stress or allergies.


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## Yvonne G (Jan 24, 2020)

(it's stressful to tortoises to share an enclosure)


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## Jsanford (Jan 24, 2020)

My two tortoises have been together since they were born, they never bother with each other. Nothing has changed in their life/environment to cause stress. I did read about the third eyelid and how sometimes they expose it when they’re stressed out, but I can’t seem to determine why he’d be stressed. He eats, drinks and moves around great! The lady I got him from (she specializes in tortoises) and the vet both have never seen or heard of this before. 
thank you for your reply.


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## TammyJ (Jan 24, 2020)

Jsanford said:


> My two tortoises have been together since they were born, they never bother with each other. Nothing has changed in their life/environment to cause stress. I did read about the third eyelid and how sometimes they expose it when they’re stressed out, but I can’t seem to determine why he’d be stressed. He eats, drinks and moves around great! The lady I got him from (she specializes in tortoises) and the vet both have never seen or heard of this before.
> thank you for your reply.


Hi and welcome to the site.
Yvonne is VERY experienced and just about the best person to help you, so please try to do as she suggests, it can only be beneficial and may save your tortoise from escalating illness and stress. We need to know about the conditions like what type of lights you have for them and the diet, temps and humidity levels etc.
First thing is to separate them. Always.


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## Yvonne G (Jan 24, 2020)

You don't always see outward signs of bullying. It may be as simple as 'cuddling,' peeing on the food, sitting in the doorway to the hide so the other can't get in. One is telling the other to get out of the territory and because of the walls, he can't get out.


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## Jsanford (Jan 24, 2020)

I will definitely try separating them to see if that helps. They have a heat lamp and a uvb light, they also have an outdoor habitat that they go in on nice days. I feed them a variety of things, mustard greens, collard greens, kale, shredded carrot (on occasion), turnip greens, etc...I appreciate the ideas, I’m willing to try anything!


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## Jsanford (Jan 24, 2020)

Yvonne G said:


> You don't always see outward signs of bullying. It may be as simple as 'cuddling,' peeing on the food, sitting in the doorway to the hide so the other can't get in. One is telling the other to get out of the territory and because of the walls, he can't get out.


Yvonne, have you ever heard of their eyes doing that if they’re staining to poop? He hadn’t pooped in awhile, but the vet gave me medicine to help with that. He finally pooped yesterday. I will definitely take your advice and separate them.


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## Yvonne G (Jan 24, 2020)

Feed him some cactus or aloe for a few days to soften up the poop. Spritz water over the food daily, and set him, in fact both of them, in little tub of warm water daily for about a half hour. Dehydration contributes to constipation, as does living in a too small enclosure. Exercise helps keep them regular.

I don't know if any of this stuff is your baby's problem, I'm only going by things that are common to the problem.


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## Lyn W (Jan 24, 2020)

What sort of bulbs are you using? Coiled bulbs and the cfl type have been known to damage tort eyes so that is another possibility.

I'm glad you are going to separate them, torts are very territorial and really don't like company or need/want friends, so it will be very stressful for both of them in a confined space. There are many sad stories on the forum about torts who have suffered illness or serious injury from a bullying room mate. They will both be much happier in their own space and it will save you some expensive vet bills!


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## Jsanford (Jan 24, 2020)

Lyn W said:


> What sort of bulbs are you using? Coiled bulbs and the cfl type have been known to damage tort eyes so that is another possibility.
> 
> I'm glad you are going to separate them, torts are very territorial and really don't like company or need/want friends, so it will be very stressful for both of them in a confined space. There are many sad stories on the forum about torts who have suffered illness or serious injury from a bullying room mate. They will both be much happier in their own space and it will save you some expensive vet bills!


I do not not use coiled bulbs, but that’s good to know!


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## Tom (Jan 24, 2020)

Jsanford said:


> I do not not use coiled bulbs, but that’s good to know!


What type of bulb is your UV bulb and what distance from the tortoise is it?

Is the eco-earth kept a little bit damp?

I also wanted to chime in on the pair thing. Just one more voice of agreement. Tortoises should never live in pairs. Along with Russians and male sulcatas, DTs are one of the worse for this. They can be a very scrappy species.


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## Tony the Tort42 (Jan 24, 2020)

The only way two torts should be housed together is if they have enough space the dont have to ever interact


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## ZEROPILOT (Jan 27, 2020)

You've been given great advice.
Welcome to the forum.


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## Jsanford (Feb 2, 2020)

Hi, I was on here over a week ago talking about my tortoises red swollen eyes. I took all the advise everyone gave me, I put my baby in a new habitat by himself. He seemed to be doing a little better but now his eyes are back to swelling (really bad) and turning red (the 3rd eyelid) again. Does anyone have any other ideas what might be causing this or anything I can do to help him/her. We’ve already been to the vet.


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## ZEROPILOT (Feb 2, 2020)

Please ignore me of we've been over this already..
You do not use a coiled or a spiral, compact CFL bulb...
Do you have anything harsh like a Mercury Vapor light?
What do you use for substrate?
Also, photos would really help. They would greatly help us make up some theories.


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## Jsanford (Feb 2, 2020)

Yes I‘ve been over all of that already in previous posts, there is also a picture.


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## Jsanford (Feb 2, 2020)

Sorry this picture is blurry. But you can see how swollen his eyes are.


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## Sa Ga (Feb 2, 2020)

Sometimes Vit A deficiency can cause eye swelling. Look up foods that have it but if it's this severe, perhaps an injection would be in order.

Poor baby! Keep us posted!


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## Jsanford (Feb 2, 2020)

Thank you for your response. I’ve taken him to the vet and they gave him a vitamin A injection. I’m feeling very defeated because nothing seems to help. I just don’t want to loose the little guy, I’ve become very attached and love him so much!


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## Tom (Feb 2, 2020)

Jsanford said:


> Hi, I was on here over a week ago talking about my tortoises red swollen eyes. I took all the advise everyone gave me, I put my baby in a new habitat by himself. He seemed to be doing a little better but now his eyes are back to swelling (really bad) and turning red (the 3rd eyelid) again. Does anyone have any other ideas what might be causing this or anything I can do to help him/her. We’ve already been to the vet.


I didn't see a reply to my two questions:
What type of bulb is your UV bulb and what distance from the tortoise is it?

Is the eco-earth kept a little bit damp?

Additionally, how often do you soak him/her?

Also, the foods you are feeding are not a very good tortoise diet. Seems doubtful that your eye issue would be a nutritional thing, but it need to be corrected none the less. You tortoise needs grass, weeds, and spineless opuntia in the diet. Grocery store greens are not great and need a lot of amendments if you must feed those items.

What is your supplementation routine? Vitamins? Calcium? How much and how often?


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## Jsanford (Feb 2, 2020)

I believe it’s a zoo med 10.0 bulb, it’s 12” away from the bottom. The substrate is damp, but maybe I need to do it more. I soak them once a day. They do get grass, weeds, and dandelions when they are outside (When the weather is nice). I sprinkle their vitamins/calcium on their food once a week (as advised by the vet and the 
Lady I got them from). As for their diet, I feel like I mix it up quite a bit and I follow all the dietary guidelines I read in books and online. I really try and do my research, and I appreciate any and all advise! Thank you!


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## Tom (Feb 2, 2020)

Jsanford said:


> I believe it’s a zoo med 10.0 bulb, it’s 12” away from the bottom. The substrate is damp, but maybe I need to do it more. I soak them once a day. They do get grass, weeds, and dandelions when they are outside (When the weather is nice). I sprinkle their vitamins/calcium on their food once a week (as advised by the vet and the
> Lady I got them from). As for their diet, I feel like I mix it up quite a bit and I follow all the dietary guidelines I read in books and online. I really try and do my research, and I appreciate any and all advise! Thank you!


What type of ZooMed 10.0? Long tube, HO, cfl? They make several types, and one type is known for causing corneal burns.

If the substrate is damp, then we can eliminate dust irritating the eye...

Sounds like a good supplementation routine.

Can we see a pic of the current enclosure? I'm not seeing any glaring errors that would cause this, and if they are now separated, then we can eliminate the cage mate as the culprit too.

Ants or crickets in the enclosure?

Just a note about "research" for this species. Most of what is out there is old, out-dated and wrong. Since you are soaking daily, it sounds like you are on the right track and not following the wrong info.

I just went back and re-read the whole thread. Did we ask what substrate they are on? My apologies if you said it and I missed it. What substrate are you using? Any sand? Soil?


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## Jsanford (Feb 2, 2020)

Tom said:


> What type of ZooMed 10.0? Long tube, HO, cfl? They make several types, and one type is known for causing corneal burns.
> 
> If the substrate is damp, then we can eliminate dust irritating the eye...
> 
> ...


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## Markw84 (Feb 2, 2020)

That looks to me like photo kerato conjunctivitis That is cauesed by overexposure to UV.

it has been asked several times but we still don’t know what type of UVB light. You did say you think a 10.0 and 10” high. This is important. If that is a T5 HO 10.0 and it is 10” above substrate the tortoise could easily get its eyes within 7” of the light. That is way too close and would burn its eyes

please find out exactly what bulb you are using and show a picture of how it is mounted in the enclosure with a tape measure for reference. This could very well be your issue


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## KronksMom (Feb 3, 2020)

Everyone else on here is much more experienced than I am, so I would definitely listen to their advice first. But... I tried that eco earth substrate briefly in Kronk's enclosure and it seemed to bother his eyes. When I notices him blinking excessively several days in a row, I looked at it very very closely and it looked like there was something like sand mixed into it. Since I am very over protective, his excessive blinking was enough for me to say "no more," and switch substrates completely. 
I've seen a lot of people on here use and recommend eco earth, but I figure since nothing else has been figured out yet, it's worth mentioning. Wishing you and your little one the best.


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## ZEROPILOT (Feb 3, 2020)

Jsanford said:


> Sorry this picture is blurry. But you can see how swollen his eyes are.
> View attachment 285740


Yes.
Sorry I don't have an answer for you.
I've never seen that before.
Perhaps @Markw84 is on to something.


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## Sa Ga (Feb 3, 2020)

KronksMom said:


> Everyone else on here is much more experienced than I am, so I would definitely listen to their advice first. But... I tried that eco earth substrate briefly in Kronk's enclosure and it seemed to bother his eyes. When I notices him blinking excessively several days in a row, I looked at it very very closely and it looked like there was something like sand mixed into it. Since I am very over protective, his excessive blinking was enough for me to say "no more," and switch substrates completely.
> I've seen a lot of people on here use and recommend eco earth, but I figure since nothing else has been figured out yet, it's worth mentioning. Wishing you and your little one the best.



Yes, the particles are so small, they sometimes get on her eyelids. I just dribble water over them (drop by drop from my fingertips) to wash them out. When I mix it with (bagged) soil, it helps immensely to keep it from being so "sandy." (25% dirt/75% Eco Earth)

It isn't my favorite stuff, but without EE, the soil dries out so fast (and they do need quite a bit of humidity!). It's also safe to ingest, and so light that I just brush her off (I use a silicone basting brush--reg bristles are too rough) and lightly blow on her to get it off when I get her out of her enclosure. (It doesn't stick and stain like dirt can).

If anyone can invent something safe to ingest, keeps humidity well without being WET, and is relatively clean (does not stick to/stain surfaces), I'm buying it!


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## ZEROPILOT (Feb 3, 2020)

This stuff.
Orchid bark.
It's GREAT.


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