# Squeaky wheezing noises *URGENT*



## Bridie (Dec 9, 2015)

Hi everyone,

I'm worried about my Hermanns, Cornelious. I have had her for 5 years and she is now 7. She has never had any health issues until now. She lives in a open top tortoise table around 1.5m x 0.5m and comes out regularly. The table has a UV light and a heat lamp, they are the same as what she has always had. 

I have recently moved house and have tried to make the move as stress free for the tortoise as I can, however she *has not been as active as usual and spends most of the day sitting in her log under the heat (it is around 28c as it has always been)*. She still eats as usual, if anything she eats more than normal. I bath her regularly although she hates it and hisses constantly.

*My main concern is at night when I turn the light off she starts to make squeaking hissing noises that go on for about 30 minuets while she moves around digging into the substrate. She has done this before but it has started happening every night. She never makes noises during any other time of day. There is no discharge.*

*The skin around one of her eyes *not the eye itself* has started to look very pale,* only on one eye though. I thought this could be due to dehydration but I bathed her every day and saw no difference. Her food is a mixture of leafy greens from the store and garden and hydrated pellet food. She has always had the same diet and have never seen any problem. I have posted two pictures of both sides.




I would take her to a vet however I am in the UK (Norwich) and can't find any reptile vets! I took her to a standard vets before for a check up and they new very little and had to use a book to even confirm the sex of her, so I don't no if they would have any idea what the issue is.* If anyone has a vet they know of near by then please recommend.*

I would be very grateful for any help!


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## Yvonne G (Dec 9, 2015)

Hi Bridie:

I pains me to say it, but there are more tortoise vets in England than there are in the U.S. You should be able to find one. Ask about it on the Shelled Warriors Forum. They will steer you in the right direction.

As to the wheezing, what kind of substrate are you using? It might be too dry and is irritating her nasal passages. Also, I notice that her beak needs to be trimmed. When you feed her, don't cut up the food. Biting off pieces helps keep it in shape, as does feeding on a rough surface.


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## wellington (Dec 9, 2015)

If my conversion of your enclosure measurements is correct she is living in a space way too small for her. Then you said she comes out regularly. Do you mean you let her roam the house or the floor of a room? Roaming on the floor of the house is very dangerous, too many things they can ingest thgat can mzke them sick or die. Also, its usually much colder then you might think. Good luck, hope its nothing and try to increase its home size, as my internet conversion has the enclosure at 3 feet by about a foot or less. Hopefully that's wrong.


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## Bridie (Dec 10, 2015)

In regards to the cage size, that was the size of her old cage when she was a baby. She is now much bigger and has an open top table for years now with the sizes stated on this page.1.5m x 0.5m. She spends time on the grass most days in summer in a run and she spends time on the floor in the house some days. The floor is 100% safe and she only walks around for 30 mins and then she sits still and she goes back into her house. The floor is safe as i ensure that there is nothing for her to ingest. It is cleaned regularly and there are no loose wires or cables. Nothing is kept on the floor other than funiture.


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## Bridie (Dec 10, 2015)

In reply to yvonne, she lives on woodchip that are designed for reptiles with the dust taken off. She has always had this as long as I have her and only recently this week has any issues arised. She only makes the sounds before she sleeps at night aswell. 

As for the beak trimming, she eats off a large round flat stone. I don't know how to cut it myself. I have looked at your post on trimming however I'm unsure as she is so small compared and if I so much as put my hand near her she retracts into her shell to much to do anything. Does trimming cause any pain and will a vet be able to do this for me?


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## Bridie (Dec 10, 2015)

I also spent time yesterday phoning vets and have only managed to find one but its about an hour away and I didn't want to travel her far. Other vets that said they treat exotic animals when I phones said they don't!


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## Kori5 (Dec 10, 2015)

Let me connect with a member on hermann-tortoise.uk forum. She will help you with finding a vet, I'm sure. PM me


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## Randi (Dec 10, 2015)

I find that wood chips have a lot of "dust", even the ones specifically designed for reptiles. Once you clean it all out, there's a thick layer of dust underneath and if burrowing, they will stir it all up. I have never used bark for my tort but I've used it with other reptiles years ago and was really disappointed with it and switched to cypress mulch. Holds humidity way better too. I use cypress mulch for my tort and I have areas that have coco coir on top of the mulch. My tort won't eat her food if her dish is surrounded in mulch - she will only eat her food if there's coco coir around it. It's odd but I have a feeling she's doing it because the mulch sticks to the food and probably doesn't feel too nice if it's in the mouth. Anyways, I'd recommend changing the substrate to cypress mulch. Even just a trial period to see if getting rid of the bark will improve the sound you're hearing. There's nothing to lose with trying it out.

What are all four temperatures in the enclosure (cold side, warm side, basking spot and night time)? What is the humidity? Can you take a picture of the enclosure? It would allow us to assist more. We love pictures.  what are you feeding? The more information you can provide, the better.

As far as I know, when trimming down the beak, if done correctly, is pain free. A knowledgeable reptile vet, specifically someone who specializes in tortoises, will be able to do it. You can ask them to show you how and if you're comfortable and feel that you can do it correctly, then maybe you can start to take care of it yourself. As suggested, leaving food items in larger pieces would be beneficial. I've had mine for a year and a half and leave her food in large pieces and feed on a rough slate and have never had to trim her beak. I think it's a great suggestion. It helps wear it down as it requires effort. I'd get it trimmed and I'd only feed larger pieces of food from now on, and hopefully it will no longer be an issue.

Hopefully you are able to find an experienced vet to take care of this. It may be worth the travel, you never know. Could be the best vet you have ever met. And if it means that your baby can be taken care of, then I would make the trip down there. The vet I use is quite far from me and I wouldn't want to go anywhere else. Best of luck to you and yours.


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## Grapes (Dec 10, 2015)

My Cali desert tort was wheezing and squeaking a lot recently and here's what I did. 




It cleared her up in 3 days.


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## Bridie (Dec 11, 2015)

Hi Randy.

I am welcome to trying cypress mulch, however I'm worried it will hold to much moisture and cause shell rot. How would I prevent that? She only makes the noises at night when she buries herself, then she stops and so do the noises for the rest of night and day. Even when she is stomping round in the day I here no unusual noises.

Heres a picture of her house, sorry for bad lighting


Heat lamp at one end, cool at the other end. Although not seen in the picture the uv light is attached to the under of the shelf. She is currently sitting in the log under the lamp. She loves pushing that around. The table used to be off the floor but due to space issues in the new house it has gone under the stairs and is on the floor. There are layers of blankets under the table to stop cold coming up through the floor.

Her food is a mixture of pellets and a selection of leafy greens and some fruits occasionally. Today she has pellets, dandelion, pumpkin and cress. I have no concerns about her food as she has always had this, for the 5 years I have had her, and her grow has been steady and her shell is perfect and not even slightly pyrimidy. I don't provide the food directly onto the slate as she just walks through it dragging bark all over it and then will eat bark accidentally. I have bought some more cuttlefish for her, although she is really uninterested in it.
I cut up the pumpkin as she can't bite into it in a lump even with a lot of effort as she is not very big. I make it into slices but she still has to tear bits off.

The heat is about 30c under the lamp and about 25c at the other end. It varies some days due to the air around the cage. At night it goes down to betwen 20-25. It has varied a lot lately due to moving house and the walls being cold, and trying to get the heating right. I don't know what the humidity is, it is what ever the house is.

I have found a vet that apparently specialise in "exotics" and I am taking her tomorrow morning to get her beak trimmed and hopefully shown how to do it myself. I will also about the sneezing before sleep as well.


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## Bridie (Dec 11, 2015)

Thanks Grapes for your suggestion. Although she I don't think she has RI, as it is only 10/30 mins at night when she is digging that it happens.


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## martaemha (Dec 11, 2015)

Hi Bridie, have you considered changing your substrate for the imaginably most natural one which is turfgrass? My older RT was doing exactly the same thing as yours - sneezing and making strange noises before going to sleep when she was digging in her burrow. No nasal discharge during the day. Once I switched to turf grass (I've been using it for the last 7 years or so) the problem is gone. What I do is simple as that: I find a clean meadow with grass, use a shovel to cut an appropriate amount together with soil and put it in the enclosure. My torts love digging in it and I guess it most reminds them of what they can find in the wild. It works when dry too. I know it may sound crazy, bringing grass with soil home and it weights tons, but from my own experience, this is what works best. I see you're in England so I guess you still should be able to find something like that. Between the grass and the enclosure you can put some plastic foil to insulate the walls from the moisture.


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## Bridie (Dec 18, 2015)

Hi everyone, just wanted to update you all that she has been to the vet and she has had her beak trimmed. A very stressful situation for her but back to her normal self. The vet said she is very healthy and her shell has grown perfectly. As for the sneezing before sleeping I think we have worked out that is because she turns into her hut into the corner when she goes to bed where she has very recently taken to peeing in. This I had not realized until I noticed the bark was wet at the top and dug down to find it was quiet damp. After I cleared this up (and continue to) she has not done it again.

She is a healthy and happy tortoise.


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