# Calci-Sand VS. Play Sand



## Gonad (Mar 2, 2011)

Okay, so I have been using a 50/50-ish mix of Bed-a-Beast coir and calci-sand for my Russian Tortoise. Honestly I'm not sure what people mean by 50/50 sand/coir... weight? volume before coir is expanded? after? Just eye-balling it after mixing and saying "hmmm, looks like half and half"?!?! Anyways...

I am reading on various websites that calci-sand is horrifically bad for reptiles and causes gut impaction. So is there some fundamental difference between play sand and calci-sand? Seems like if play sand is for playing and calci-sand is designed specifically for reptile enclosures it should be as good or better than play sand right? Do I need to dump out my freshly mixed 3 bricks coir, 1 bag calci-sand substrate and get play sand instead? My tortoise likes to walk haphazardly through his food and cover it with sand from time to time and will scavange for bits of for in the substrate and eat them. He is surely ingesting plenty of substrate and I've never had any problems with him. He seems happy, active and healthy with a voracious appetite.

I do understand that calci-sand (or play sand for that matter) by itself is an unacceptable substrate for a Russian. Half sand half coir seems to be the consensus so that's what I use, but I wasn't aware that calci-sand was deadly while play sand was not. Is this true? If so, why does calci-sand exist if it is inferior to play sand (and by many accounts deadly) as a reptile substrate. If play sand so much better, why doesn't the company just package play sand in a reptile-themed bag and sell that at the same price?

I will surely get play sand the next time around if only for the fact that it will be much cheaper, but is this stuff really so deadly that I need to toss this substrate? Again - he has lived in this same mixture for 3 years or so with no problems. I know this doesn't mean there won't eventually be a problem, though...

Thanks,
Jacob


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## Tom (Mar 2, 2011)

I would not use either, even as part of a mix. I have seen eye and skin infections with both as well as impaction.

The only benefit of play sand over clci-sand is that a reptile might not intentionally eat it to get some added calcium in the diet.

......AND... hello and welcome to the forum.


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## Yvonne G (Mar 2, 2011)

Hi Jacob:

Welcome to the forum!! May we know where you are?

I've never used calci-sand, but I've heard that it is appealing to a tortoise and they might eat it intentionally. I've also heard that a well-hydrated tortoise doesn't get sand impaction.

All I can tell you for sure is that I've seen first hand radio-graphs of baby desert tortoises that died from sand impaction. That was all it took for me to decide never to use sand...period...at all!


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## Gonad (Mar 2, 2011)

Shenanigans! Then why does every tortoise-related website suggest that a mix of sand and loam or coir is the best substrate? If it isn't, then what is the best substrate?!?!

emysemys - I am in OH.

Thanks,
Jacob


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## Missy (Mar 2, 2011)

I don't use sand at all either. I suggest cypress mulch or plain old dirt.


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## Yvonne G (Mar 2, 2011)

Gonad said:


> Then why does every tortoise-related website suggest that a mix of sand and loam or coir is the best substrate?



Even some folks here recommend it. It all boils down to a personal choice, Jacob. We like to think that here on the forum, we are progressive enough to allow different opinions and differing ways of tortoise-keeping. Just because some of us would never use sand is no reason to discount it totally. 

I think that when "they" first started touting the 50/50 playsand/coir, it was new and that's what they decided. It wasn't too long after that arrived on the scene that those same folks had changed their routine and started touting a 60/40 or even 70/30 coir/sand mixture. 

Also, bear in mind that things on the internet hardly ever get changed. So when the sand/coir thingey first came out, its probably still on the 'net someplace, but those folks have changed their way of thinking.

So, keep in mind that if your tortoise eats a lot of sand and isn't well hydrated, he MIGHT become impacted. The sand also MIGHT get in his eyes and cause irritation. But these also might NOT happen. There are ways to be sure he doesn't track the sand/coir into his food, and soaking every day helps keep them hydrated.

Good luck with whatever you decide.


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## Tom (Mar 2, 2011)

Gonad said:


> Shenanigans! Then why does every tortoise-related website suggest that a mix of sand and loam or coir is the best substrate? If it isn't, then what is the best substrate?!?!
> 
> emysemys - I am in OH.
> 
> ...



There is a whole lot of that in the tortoise world. Some of it is difference of opinion. Some of it is ignorance. Some of it is just outdated.

Lots of people use sand mixes and get away with it. I just don't and I've seen lots of problems associated with it over the years. Just know that it is a greater risk than some of the other substrates.


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## Kristina (Mar 2, 2011)

Hydration does have a LITTLE to do with it. However, it all depends on how MUCH of the sand they are mowwing down on. Calci-sand smells and tastes appealing, so they are more likely to eat it on purpose.

I used sand mix and hated it. As Tom said, it ended up in their eyes and in the creases around their legs and was irritating and awful. Most of my enclosures now have organic topsoil covered with a layer of coir or sphagnum moss. It makes it easy to put plants right in the substrate.

There really is no "best" substrate. Most of the members here use coir, orchid bark, top soil, or cypress mulch, OR a combo of two or more of any of those. Sphagnum moss also works great and is great to stuff hides with to hold humidity.

You kind of have to figure out what you like best, and it is a little bit of trial and error.

Why do websites list bad things? Because the internet is free for anyone to use, whether they know what they are talking about or not. A lot of the info out there is also outdated.


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## Gonad (Mar 2, 2011)

Thanks to everybody for the helpful replies. I've never seen my tortoise eating substrate purposely but I think I will play it safe and move to a top soil / coir or perhaps top soil / sphagnum mix when I have a chance. I don't soak him but he soaks himself regularly in a shallow water dish that I keep clean and filled and I've seen him drinking from the dish as well so he should be staying hydrated.

Just seems like as I've done research on various substrates, sand/coir is the one that is consistently touted as the holy grail of tortoise substrates. I guess you can't believe everything you read - who would have thought?!

Jacob


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## Tom (Mar 2, 2011)

Haha. We all gave similar answers, with our own spin, within 3 minutes of each other.


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## Robert (Mar 2, 2011)

Gonads:

I know you no longer plan to use it, but just in case others are reading this I'll post my opinion on sand. 

I read what many of us have read, that 50/50 coir and sand was best, so that's what I did. When I joined this forum, I followed the helpful advice of Yvonne and Tom and decided to remove the sand. Well, what a mess. Within about five minutes my eyes were burning, my nose was running and I felt like I could cough up a lung. I thought, if cleaning this makes me this uncomfortable, I certainly wouldn't want to live directly on this stuff. (Common sense would have had me wearing a mask, but obviously I didn't!)

It's a mess, its irritating and there are many other sources of calcium available.


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## Kristina (Mar 2, 2011)

Tom said:


> Haha. We all gave similar answers, with our own spin, within 3 minutes of each other.



That is because great minds think alike


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