# Feeding Tortoise On Soil?



## JonahQKline (Feb 20, 2012)

Now I'm Here Asking This And Telling You My Debate On This. I Think That Feeding A Tortoise On Soil/Bedding Is Alright. When There In The Wild, They Eat The Plant And I'm 50% Sure That It Falls Off And Goes Onto The Ground And They Eat It, And It Gets Full Of **** And Soil. 

I'm Willing To Completely Debate This!!

Any Takers or Exclamations?


----------



## Yvonne G (Feb 20, 2012)

My side of the debate goes like this:

In the wild, a tortoise bites off a piece of plant/grass up off the ground, or on a stem. If it should happen to fall on the ground and he picks it up, chances are pretty good that its dry and dirt doesn't adhere to it. Chances are also pretty good that the ground is packed hard, not loose. Even sand won't stick to a blade of dry grass.


----------



## NudistApple (Feb 20, 2012)

I tend to agree with Yvonne here, the plants that the torts are eating in the wild have a pretty good chance of being live and growing, so having soil on them isn't a huge likelihood. If they are eating dead plant matter then there has probably been a drought, and the ground would be so dry that they would get minimal, if any of it in their mouths with the plant.

I think the only time they should be eating not off of a slate in their enclosure is if the food is up and growing. But, I definitely only hold this opinion on the strictly herbivorous tortoises. Redfoots and things that eat bugs would probably get quite a lot of soil naturally.

Also, JonahQKline, why are you capitalizing the first letter of each word? It makes kind of really difficult to read. LIKE WHEN PEOPLE TYPE IN ALL CAPS, it slows down a human's reading speed/efficiency. Not...berating. Just curious.


----------



## Madkins007 (Feb 20, 2012)

Tortoises rarely eat off the soil- they graze on leaves, flowers, etc. off the ground. They DO eat some things of the soil and they are usually 'dirty' and that rarely bothers the tortoise.

The main reason we recommend feeding surfaces has nothing to do with that, though. The primary purpose of a feeding dish is to keep the substrate cleaner and thus reduce pathogen growth in the habitat.


----------



## JonahQKline (Feb 20, 2012)

emysemys said:


> My side of the debate goes like this:
> 
> In the wild, a tortoise bites off a piece of plant/grass up off the ground, or on a stem. If it should happen to fall on the ground and he picks it up, chances are pretty good that its dry and dirt doesn't adhere to it. Chances are also pretty good that the ground is packed hard, not loose. Even sand won't stick to a blade of dry grass.



I Highly Dissagree Here, Let's Just Say About Tropical Torts. The Ground Is yet Packed Hard, It Still Gonna Pick Up Dirt? It's Wet and Moist Conditions. So There Going To Eat It.



NudistApple said:


> I tend to agree with Yvonne here, the plants that the torts are eating in the wild have a pretty good chance of being live and growing, so having soil on them isn't a huge likelihood. If they are eating dead plant matter then there has probably been a drought, and the ground would be so dry that they would get minimal, if any of it in their mouths with the plant.
> 
> I think the only time they should be eating not off of a slate in their enclosure is if the food is up and growing. But, I definitely only hold this opinion on the strictly herbivorous tortoises. Redfoots and things that eat bugs would probably get quite a lot of soil naturally.
> 
> Also, JonahQKline, why are you capitalizing the first letter of each word? It makes kind of really difficult to read. LIKE WHEN PEOPLE TYPE IN ALL CAPS, it slows down a human's reading speed/efficiency. Not...berating. Just curious.



I Type in capital letters...I Don't Know ;-/



Madkins007 said:


> Tortoises rarely eat off the soil- they graze on leaves, flowers, etc. off the ground. They DO eat some things of the soil and they are usually 'dirty' and that rarely bothers the tortoise.
> 
> The main reason we recommend feeding surfaces has nothing to do with that, though. The primary purpose of a feeding dish is to keep the substrate cleaner and thus reduce pathogen growth in the habitat.



I Thought It Was Because Of Respitory Infections?


----------



## Debi1* (Feb 20, 2012)

I have a plastic saucer that I filled with dirt from outside and put some flat rocks on top of it for a basking area and put it under his light. The light heats it up real nice so he gets warm from underneath as well. The first time I put it in his cage he ran right in and started eating dirt like he really needed it. Now I only see him do it once in a while but when I clean it and put new dirt in he eats some. He's a red foot.


----------



## Madkins007 (Feb 20, 2012)

JonahQKline said:


> Madkins007 said:
> 
> 
> > Tortoises rarely eat off the soil- they graze on leaves, flowers, etc. off the ground. They DO eat some things of the soil and they are usually 'dirty' and that rarely bothers the tortoise.
> ...



(The capital letters thing really does interfere with smooth reading of your comments- it is like hitting an aggressive series of stop lights, or listening to a classic Captain Kirk imitator doing a monologue.)

I don't think I have ever heard any connection between eating off the ground and RI. 

Red-footed tortoises in the wild often have up to 25% of their droppings be just sand, so they obviously eat some soil and are not affected by it, but feed a tortoise in an indoor enclosure on the substrate and it won't be long before the habitat stinks and is crawling with mold, fungus, pests, and so on. Heck, even using the same spot outside can get nasty.

It has been my experience that old food 'sours' a substrate even faster than poo does.


----------



## ascott (Feb 20, 2012)

I think that I am confused here? I understand the topic, I understand totally. However, my confusion is "why" this debate? What I mean is, what is the hopeful outcome of information?

I imagine that you must like to drop the food onto the substrate for your tortoise to eat from?? I am simply making a guess here, not that I know anything for certain  So, it sounds as though you are wanting someone to agree with and support what you do? Is this right? 

I will offer my input, based on what I do that is...the CDTs here (when they are not brumating that is) all graze on their own for most of their eating/waking season---I will then offer supplement their eating at about 2/3 into the season, when I do offer supplemental food I drop it right onto the desert ground (we live in the desert  ) which is primarily clay compacted dirt here....they chow it down, no problem--however, the CDTs are really well hydrated.

The RFs are small still and have an indoor enclosure and this is where I offer them their food. I have coco coir/organic soil/yard dirt as their substrate--it is packed down and wet down on a regular basis, I offer them their food on a large flat plastic lid --they eat from there. I do this because it is an easy way for me to make sure that they are eating all that I offer, it is also easier for me to keep the food items out of the substrate (I do not want to encourage them eating the substrate by accident trying to eat the loose pieces of food) 

I do have to tell you, I have one of the CDTs, my old man Humphry, who had become impacted by sand ingestion (before he came to live at our house that is) and he was on his way to death...luckily, I stumbled across what was going on while helping his prior host fix up the enclosure, and I mean with little time to spare. He was always tossed food into the enclosure--straight onto the ground (which was sand and desert dirt)....due to the ground cover in his enclosure he should have absolutely been fed on a hard surface and not directly from that type of ground.....

So, I would suppose if all of your variables are positive and are not too sandy, or too loose of soil, or full of small pebbles and rocks then feeding them directly from the dirt (outdoors) should be fine. I would say the same for an indoor enclosure....but I think my confusion returns here when I ask, is it really a hard thing to do, to feed off of a solid surface to help out your captive tortoise?? 

Oh and, you go right ahead and keep typing what ever way works for you.... Little letters big letters they all work here...


----------



## cherylim (Feb 20, 2012)

Emrys eats off the soil. He didn't at first, I fed him on a large slate but he ended up dragging his food around before eating it. Now, I tend to scatter his food in various locations unless it's something that will take on a lot of soil (fruit). Leaves stay pretty clean.


----------



## Turtlechasers (Feb 22, 2012)

While studying erosion in college, I came upon this idea of vertical erosion... vertical erosion is that erosion that happens during a rain storm... in vertical erosion soil particals are displaced as far as 4 feet (vertically ie. "up") from the parent material (ground).
I know that every one of you out collecting weeds directly after a rain strom has noticed dirt (soil partilces) all over the weeds that we intend to pick...
Those that have homes have noticed this effect as well... Where rain comes off the eves of a building and the dirt is all over the side of the building...
What has all this to do with tortioses???
Many species of tortoise come out right after a rain to sun and then feed... None of them pick their tucker wiping away the dirt or take in and wash it... they eat it soil particles and all...
Really no debate here at all... never heard or a tortoise suffering from the lack of soil minerals...


----------



## ALDABRAMAN (Feb 25, 2012)

Turtlechasers said:


> While studying erosion in college, I came upon this idea of vertical erosion... vertical erosion is that erosion that happens during a rain storm... in vertical erosion soil particals are displaced as far as 4 feet (vertically ie. "up") from the parent material (ground).
> I know that every one of you out collecting weeds directly after a rain strom has noticed dirt (soil partilces) all over the weeds that we intend to pick...
> Those that have homes have noticed this effect as well... Where rain comes off the eves of a building and the dirt is all over the side of the building...
> What has all this to do with tortioses???
> ...


----------



## Jacqui (Feb 25, 2012)

I do feed most of the food and in most of the enclosures, off the substrate (usually this is coir/sand). Now when I try adding some Mazuri to their diet, I do use the dishes. The reason I normally recommend using a dish, is to help wear down the beaks. I never heard of a respiratory issue with eating off the ground.


----------



## jojodesca (Feb 25, 2012)

i give me box turtle clean worms..and they drag them thru the dirt.....maybe there is some sort of mineral in it they like....plus i knew a woman that once craved dirt during her pregnancy..and she would eat it...so it must be normal...right?..lol


----------



## Maggie Cummings (Feb 25, 2012)

That irritates the crap outta me...I spend 30 minutes standing at the sink rinsing the dirt off the worms before I offer them to my turtles. Then I run around looking for the last place I left the flat board thing that I use to feed the worms on so they don't get all dirty and looking for it takes 5 more minutes...Now I'm ready I found the board and I take the worms and the board into the tort table and I put a few worms onto the board thingy and the turtles attack the worms and they all grab the one worm and drag him off thru the dirt breaking him off into a bunch of different segments covered with dirt.
Now typing this paragraph took more time than just throwing the worms at them took...Did any of this make sense? I'm not so sure, but I do think I am going to stop washing the worms before they go off to their bloody demise...


----------



## jojodesca (Feb 25, 2012)

maggie3fan said:


> That irritates the crap outta me...I spend 30 minutes standing at the sink rinsing the dirt off the worms before I offer them to my turtles. Then I run around looking for the last place I left the flat board thing that I use to feed the worms on so they don't get all dirty and looking for it takes 5 more minutes...Now I'm ready I found the board and I take the worms and the board into the tort table and I put a few worms onto the board thingy and the turtles attack the worms and they all grab the one worm and drag him off thru the dirt breaking him off into a bunch of different segments covered with dirt.
> Now typing this paragraph took more time than just throwing the worms at them took...Did any of this make sense? I'm not so sure, but I do think I am going to stop washing the worms before they go off to their bloody demise...



yes it makes sense...i guess they eat them in nature unclean...so we are just pampering them..and they are like "yeah watch me drag this bugger thru the dirt"...lol...


----------



## ascott (Feb 25, 2012)

Maggie you have me rolling around laughing aloud...


----------



## terryo (Feb 25, 2012)

I do the same thing Maggie. I wash all the worms, put them on a nice clean piece of slate (helps to keep the beak and nails trimmed) and then they all grab one and drag it through the dirt to hide and eat their worm.


----------



## Turtlechasers (Feb 26, 2012)

Don't you realize that worms process dirt by eating it??? Dirt is inside the worms... You can wash the worms all you want and even express a good amount of dirt out of live worms, but the fact still remains that there is dirt in the worms that you are feeding to your turtles. Turtles, like other livestock, need the minerals that soil contains... Livestock raised on mineral deficent soil develop diseases needing veterinary attention... Is it your intent to remove all dirt and soil particles to create this same deficency in your turtles???


----------



## terryo (Feb 26, 2012)

If there is dirt inside the worms, then I guess it doesn't matter if we clean the outside because they will still be getting minerals from the dirt inside the worm. Also....as for myself, I was speaking about young turtles or hatchlings that are kept inside until they are old enough to go outside permanently. So far in 30 years I'm never had a mineral deficent box turtle, but I appreciate your advice.


----------



## Turtlechasers (Feb 26, 2012)

Hi Terryo...
It is the young and the old, that usually show the first sysptoms of disease and distress... I believe that it is the very young that need all the elements necessary for development... God/evolution has prepared these animals for survival for the past 65 million years by supplying all of their needs living in a nich so close to the ground/soil...
In human development we are comcerned with infant development even before we are born... We encourage mothers to eat nutritiously, indulge in cravings as these are possibly nutritional deficiencies... to take pre-natal vitamins and minerals... even after birth we encourage mothers to eat nutitionally, take vitamins/minerals... 
Within the hobby over the past 35-40 years, we have seen an increasing awareness of the macro-nutrients that reptiles in general need... We haven't yet begun to investigate the species requirements of micro-nutrients... ie. we know that calcium and vitamin D3 are important but not how much... we do not know and have not even begun to inquire about Mo, Co, Fe, Mg or Se... At what levels are these needed, or are we just going by what it says on the bottle???
We ingorantly hope that feeding a dark green leafy diet supplemented with vitamins, will supply what may be needed...
I know that you are doing your best, this is not a criticism, just a discussion... to elicit thought...


----------



## jojodesca (Feb 26, 2012)

I had to Google this!!...b/c i have alot of time on my hands!

How much dirt does the average person consume in their lifetime?

EPA suggests that we eat 50 to 200 milligrams per day. At 100mg, if you live till 60, that's 2,190,000mg.

So basically a little dirt doesn't hurt!!....hahaha


----------



## Jacqui (Feb 26, 2012)

maggie3fan said:


> That irritates the crap outta me...I spend 30 minutes standing at the sink rinsing the dirt off the worms before I offer them to my turtles. Then I run around looking for the last place I left the flat board thing that I use to feed the worms on so they don't get all dirty and looking for it takes 5 more minutes...Now I'm ready I found the board and I take the worms and the board into the tort table and I put a few worms onto the board thingy and the turtles attack the worms and they all grab the one worm and drag him off thru the dirt breaking him off into a bunch of different segments covered with dirt.
> Now typing this paragraph took more time than just throwing the worms at them took...Did any of this make sense? I'm not so sure, but I do think I am going to stop washing the worms before they go off to their bloody demise...



 Sorry I could not help, but have a laugh at this. I can just so easy in my mind see this and see your cussing them out for doing it.  I just give my worms to mine "dirty".


----------



## Irwin4530 (Feb 26, 2012)

I really do see both sides of this debate.....for me, it comes down to trying to do what is best for my torts.
I am sure that they eat their bedding but I dont want to help them to do so. Just today I gave my yellow
foots a nice serving of fruit on a large slate and they did exactly what Maggie describes!!!! SO FRUSTRATING!!!!
but I did pick it all up and clean it off!!!

I guess it is a selfish thing, but if they get impacted or have another issue from eating soil (bedding)
I want to know that I did all I could do to avoid it!!


----------



## Turtlechasers (Feb 26, 2012)

jojodesca said:


> I had to Google this!!...b/c i have alot of time on my hands!
> 
> How much dirt does the average person consume in their lifetime?
> 
> ...



So what is that in kilos or for you yanks pounds???


----------



## terryo (Feb 26, 2012)

Another thing...The hatchlilngs and young boxies that I have inside, live in a planted vivarium that mimic's, as best as I can, the forest floor. When I set it up I add lots of pill bugs, worms and the substrate is made from mixing my own compost, which has it's own bugs. So, they are constantly forging for their own foods, besides what I give them. I'm sure they are eating plenty of "dirt."  Right now I have four babies that had a bad start, and were given to me to see if I can help them. No guarantee, but I'm doing my best for them.


----------



## Jacqui (Feb 26, 2012)

terryo said:


> Another thing...The hatchlilngs and young boxies that I have inside, live in a planted vivarium that mimic's, as best as I can, the forest floor. When I set it up I add lots of pill bugs, worms and the substrate is made from mixing my own compost, which has it's own bugs. So, they are constantly forging for their own foods, besides what I give them. I'm sure they are eating plenty of "dirt."  Right now I have four babies that had a bad start, and were given to me to see if I can help them. No guarantee, but I'm doing my best for them.



I can't think of a person I would trust more then you with my box turtles.


----------



## terryo (Feb 26, 2012)

Jacqui said:


> terryo said:
> 
> 
> > Another thing...The hatchlilngs and young boxies that I have inside, live in a planted vivarium that mimic's, as best as I can, the forest floor. When I set it up I add lots of pill bugs, worms and the substrate is made from mixing my own compost, which has it's own bugs. So, they are constantly forging for their own foods, besides what I give them. I'm sure they are eating plenty of "dirt."  Right now I have four babies that had a bad start, and were given to me to see if I can help them. No guarantee, but I'm doing my best for them.
> ...


----------



## bfmorris (Feb 26, 2012)

I think feeding surfaces make good conservative sense; so when one can play it smart, why not play it smart. I use stall mats for feeding surfaces.


----------

