# Is It A Desert Tortoise?



## Yvonne G (Jul 26, 2013)

I was given two hatchlings by a woman who said she brought them here from Mexico. I kept them because of their unusual color. One has since died, but I'm showing the other here next to a regular colored desert tortoise. They are both 4 years old:



















I don't know why my camera now takes blurry pictures. It used to be perfectly fine. I depress the shutter button very lightly and the camera automatically adjusts, then I depress the button to take the picture, but it still comes out blurry.

So what do you all think? Hypomelanistic desert tortoise? Or some other species of tortoise?


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## pam (Jul 26, 2013)

I dont know what it is but I think it is very nice looking I have not seen one like it


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## Jd3 (Jul 26, 2013)

The flash isn't going off and it is too dark. Turn the flash on or go to a auto mode. Or take them outside for better lighting. "Good" lighting inside is not as good as a cloudy day outside...


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## Yvonne G (Jul 26, 2013)

Jd3 said:


> The flash isn't going off and it is too dark. Turn the flash on or go to a auto mode. Or take them outside for better lighting. "Good" lighting inside is not as good as a cloudy day outside...



THANK YOU!!! Yes, you are correct. I noticed that the flash didn't go off when I took those pictures. I'm not camera-literate, and just figured it was something automatic...or not. But just now, after reading your post, I pushed all the different buttons on the camera, ended up with "smart capture," but there was no flash button. Anyway, I took a picture of my dog and the flash went off!!


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## mike taylor (Jul 26, 2013)

The tortoise on the left is a Texas gopher tortoise . I know they are not legal to keep in Texas without a permit . But have no idea if you can keep one in so cal. Without a permit. I just typed in Texas tortoises and a picture that looks like the one you have came up. Hope that helps you out .

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## Yvonne G (Jul 26, 2013)

No, for sure it's NOT a Gopherus berlandieri. They are much smaller than our desert tortoise (and I have some of them too), plus they have a "V" right above the head, while the desert tortoise has a nuchal scute right above the head.


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## mike taylor (Jul 26, 2013)

Ok I tried . 

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## Laura (Jul 26, 2013)

maybe from more Forested area of Mexico? like a Melanistic cat? jungle? hmmmm


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## Yvonne G (Jul 26, 2013)

mike taylor said:


> Ok I tried .



Yes, you did...and I very much appreciate it!


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## MikeCow1 (Jul 26, 2013)

I'm confused, the one on the left or on the right? The one on the left looks just like every desert tortoise I've ever hatched


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## ascott (Jul 26, 2013)

Yvonne, may we see a clear picture of their head...profile type please


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## Millerlite (Jul 26, 2013)

Cute dog! Lol sorry I'm no help but interested to see what they are!


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## Tom (Jul 26, 2013)

I had something similar a few years ago. Danny ID'd them as a TT/CDT cross. Is that a possibility? I can't tell from the pics. The only thing I can confirm for sure is that neither of them are sulcatas. 

I'm a big help, right?


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## mike taylor (Jul 26, 2013)

I have been looking on line and the thing that Tom said about it being a cross sounds right . When you look up Texas gopher and mexico tortoises the pictures are close to what you got there. Did she say where in Mexico she got them from ? Was it close to Texas? You got me going now I can't stop lookin on line till I find it . 

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## BeeBee*BeeLeaves (Jul 26, 2013)

Yes, where in Mexico is she from, I also wonder. North Central? Chihuahuan Desert? Oh.Mi.Gosh, what if it is a Bolson? The fact that the other died could be telling. I can't wait to know for sure what this little one is! : )


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## Yvonne G (Jul 26, 2013)

Now that I know about the flash on the camera, I'll get better pictures tomorrow. It's too hot out right now.
(Wouldn't it be great if it were a bolson's? But how would we ever know...I guess we'd have to wait to see how big it gets)


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## Arnold_rules (Jul 26, 2013)

Yvonne G said:


> Now that I know about the flash on the camera, I'll get better pictures tomorrow. It's too hot out right now.
> (Wouldn't it be great if it were a bolson's? But how would we ever know...I guess we'd have to wait to see how big it gets)



And the suspense builds....just like on episodes of Batman from the 60's.


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## mike taylor (Jul 27, 2013)

Yvonne,any up date .

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## Yvonne G (Jul 27, 2013)

LOL! Sorry about that.

My tortoise partner, William, is in town this week-end. He's going to take my Manouria babies home with him to San Diego to head start them. So today we went up to the National Forests to see the giant redwood trees. So I'll get some clear shots of that tortoise tomorrow a.m. when it's a bit cooler.


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## Yvonne G (Jul 28, 2013)

Let's see if these are any better. I took them outside in the sun:


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## ascott (Jul 28, 2013)

http://ih0.redbubble.net/image.11844164.4801/flat,550x550,075,f.jpg

Yvonne, I think there may be a bit of Bolson going on here.....


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## Yvonne G (Jul 28, 2013)

One can only hope!!

Either way, hypo-melanistic or Bolson's, I'm completely happy and hope I can keep it alive!


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## Millerlite (Jul 28, 2013)

Yvonne G said:


> One can only hope!!
> 
> Either way, hypo-melanistic or Bolson's, I'm completely happy and hope I can keep it alive!



Is he doing alright? Health wise?


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## thatrebecca (Jul 28, 2013)

Wow! How exciting. I'm so glad he's in Yvonne's capable hands, whatever he is.


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## mike taylor (Jul 28, 2013)

Any body out there keep bolsons to compare too? 

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## Gilber (Aug 5, 2013)

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## diamondbp (Aug 5, 2013)

This is so cool! How long have us turtle/tortoise enthusiast needed this forum and these discussions! It's awesome to see everyone going to work trying to figure this out.

I suspect Bolson as well but that's not my area of expertise. As said before definitely not a TT but if indeed a CDT than its a very cool coloring. 

Every year I hatch out my gulf coast box turtle eggs I'm reminding on the extreme diversity of genetics even within a sub species. So we always must remember that crazy unique colorations pop up naturally even within an ancient population.

Well done everyone


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## Yvonne G (Aug 5, 2013)

Thanks for the chart, Gilber. That will come in handy.


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## Gilber (Aug 5, 2013)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEWzsgem8GE


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## motero (Aug 6, 2013)

I have seen sonorans that are colored just like that. Is there a reason that says it is not a sonoran?


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## Yvonne G (Aug 7, 2013)

The tortoise in the YouTube video certainly does look like my tortoise. Maybe that's the answer - after all, he did come from Mexico, and looking at maps as to where the Sonora desert is, that is a reasonable assumption.


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## GeoTerraTestudo (Aug 7, 2013)

A couple possibilities:

1) Both could be desert tortoises, but as mentioned above, the lighter one could be a Mojave desert tortoise (_Gopherus agassizii_), while the darker one could be Sonoran desert tortoise (_G. morafkai_). Is that it?

2) It could be that the lighter one was raised outdoors, while the darker one was raised indoors. Indoor _Testudo_s are lighter than outdoor ones, but indoor sulcatas are darker than their outdoor brethren. Perhaps it's just an effect of natural vs. artificial lighting?




3) BTW - I'm also wondering if the darker one could be a Bolson tortoise (_G. flavomarginatus_)?


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## ellen (Aug 7, 2013)

Oh! I'm from Arizona, and both of my babies are desert tortoises and look like that darker one.  All of the clutches that my dad's friend's tortoises lay look like that. I usually think the lighter ones look weird when I see them....hahaha. I'm so used to the darker ones.







Picture from March. They were slightly cranky because I woke them up so we could go outside before it got too hot.


I am really, really sorry for posting twice. I can't edit my post since it's been more than 30 minutes.  I just took a picture of my tortoises wet and dry for color comparison. I'd take pictures of them on their backs but I don't want to scare them. . . 

I also found an article that might be pertinent to this discussion. 

USGS WERC Outreach - Desert Tortoises Show Off A Dash of Color


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## Yvonne G (Aug 7, 2013)

The darker tortoise in my picture is definitely a mojave desert tortoise. I only put him in the picture so you all could compare the lighter one with a regular colored desert tortoise.

The lighter tortoise was given to me about 3 years ago and he was maybe a year old at that time. He has spent his whole time here with me in an indoor/outdoor set up, weather permitting. He was light when I got him and he has stayed light.


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## BeeBee*BeeLeaves (Aug 7, 2013)

I still wonder if it is a Bolson. (Swoon!). 
Gopherus flavomarginatus. Flavo- in Latin means yellow ... -marginatus as in the color of the marginal scutes. 
Love those giant Mexican gopher tortoises. I hope you were given exactly that by that lady. How.Awesome.Would.That.Be?


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## mariebaby21 (Aug 8, 2013)

Yvonne, I see you have a weimaraner in your pic... Does he/she go after the torts? I tried to introduce mine weim to one of my torts and she was having an anxiety attack because I would not let her eat it! As soon as she got close to it, her sniffs became nips and when i went to pull her away she went for the head... but thankfully missed. So, I won't be letting the tortoises roam the yard even while I'm present because I know she can't be trusted AT ALL! Makes me sad that I can't sit out back and let the tortoises out with the dogs and just watch and relax... Sorry, I don't mean to hijack the post either, I just saw the pic so I thought I'd comment here.


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## Yvonne G (Aug 8, 2013)

Believe it or not...that's a doberman. She's supposed to be a fawn, however, I'm thinking she's a plain, old red. 

She is my faithful companion. She is always by my side. She's 14 months old, and still tuned in to me as the "mother" figure and follows me wherever I go. I would never trust her to be outside on her own, but she's fine as long as I'm there with her. There's no doubt in my mind that if she were left to her own devices she would eventually discover that a tortoise might be something to chew on.


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## BeeBee*BeeLeaves (Aug 19, 2013)

Your dobie is beautiful, Yvonne. 

I came across the word xanthic here: http://sbsc.wr.usgs.gov/products/htms/synopsis.aspx

Look at those two little babies with their going the wrong way Jetson jet packs. However, I still kinda hope it is a surprise Bolson. : ) 

I had a chance to have 6 babies in the mid-80's (for free, from our handyman then!) and I did not get them. Boohoo. I wanted to be a good girl and not break a possible law, I thought. Bummers.


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## Yvonne G (Aug 20, 2013)

I had never heard "xanthric" before. The baby in the "jet pac" picture certainly DOES look like my tortoise.


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