# Found Tortoise (NW Washington State), advice greatly appreciated



## Ianverm (Aug 11, 2015)

Hello all,

My wife discovered a tortoise in our garden about a half hour ago. We live in NW Washington, so this is obviously someones pet (ie. not a wild tortoise). While we are searching for the owner, could anybody ID this guy for us and provide advice on how to keep him/her happy and safe for the time being. Water was already provided. Any help would be greatly appreciated. 

And by some small chance: we are in the Columbia neighborhood of Bellingham. I remember seeing "lost tortoise" signs around our house over a month ago. Unfortunately the signs have been down for a while... Anyone here lose a tortoise in Bellingham?

A photo is provided.

Thanks,
Ian


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## MPRC (Aug 11, 2015)

You've got a turtle, not a tortoise, I'll let someone chime in on the exact kind. 

I'd post a Craigslist ad (without a picture, ask for a description) and see if you can find the owner that way. Also ask local pet stores and vet clinics if they might still have the flier in their office.


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## Ianverm (Aug 11, 2015)

Hah, stupid me! Thanks for the response. We will be posting to craigslist soon here, as well as posting a few fliers around the neighborhood.


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## wellington (Aug 11, 2015)

It is a Box turtle. Are you sure they are not native? If it is, please release it where you found it. If it's not native, they eat bugs, also, some greens, but not sure what kind. They need high humidity and leaf litter or dirt is a good ground cover for them and they need water to drink and get into. 
@Yvonne G @terryo can help you further.


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## Ianverm (Aug 11, 2015)

This is why I posted here, clearly I have no knowledge of turtles/tortoises. Cannot even tell the difference! Thank you for the info. We have not moved it, only given it some water. It could be native, but we are in the middle of a developed neighborhood. I have no idea how it could have gotten to our house.


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## Ianverm (Aug 11, 2015)

According to this map (no idea of the reliability), we are well out of the native range of box turtles... does this seem right? https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/34/Box_turtle_distribution_map.svg


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## domalle (Aug 11, 2015)

Ianverm said:


> Hello all,
> 
> My wife discovered a tortoise in our garden about a half hour ago. We live in NW Washington, so this is obviously someones pet (ie. not a wild tortoise). While we are searching for the owner, could anybody ID this guy for us and provide advice on how to keep him/her happy and safe for the time being. Water was already provided. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> ...



It is a box turtle not a tortoise. But your intuition is correct. It has an overgrown beak and nails which indicates it is an escaped pet.
The colors are muted which suggest it is of some age and has been around awhile.
Also makes it hard to identify with certainty from the photo.
Box turtles are omnivores so you can feed it a variety of foods.
Earthworms are appreciated as are berries.
And thank you for going out of your way for this lost creature.


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## leigti (Aug 11, 2015)

No box turtles are native to Washington state.


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## wellington (Aug 11, 2015)

Oh, you probably wouldn't believe how far they can travel and some of the places they will end up. Why? Who knows.

It's hard to say if that map is accurate. When I googled box turtles native to Washington state, it came up with all kinds of box turtles, but then the links show all turtles. 

Hang on and the people I alerted might know,the answer and they will be able to better help with its care. In the mean time, maybe try to confine it from wondering away incase it isn't native. For now if you have a box you could put it in for e night. Give it some dirt or weeds to cover up in until you can get it figured out for sure.


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## wellington (Aug 11, 2015)

Okay, great, leigti answered that the same time I was posting. So, please take it in and try to find its owner. Anyone new move into the neighborhood? Possibly theirs. Other boxie owners will chime in and help you too.


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## Maggie Cummings (Aug 11, 2015)

The only turtles native to the PNW are Pacific Pond Turtles and Western Painted turtles, and both are threatened species because of RES and loss of habitat. You have an Eastern box turtle native to the North East and Midwest (not sure about the Mid West). They eat fruit, worms, crickets, most bugs actually, berries, cantaloupe and that's all I can think of right now. Your guy has an awfully long beak, it may be hard for him to eat. But he'd LOVE some night crawlers....3 should do it...


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## pam (Aug 11, 2015)

Welcome  Hope you find its owner


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## Maggie Cummings (Aug 11, 2015)

It is an Eastern box turtle. The only natives to the PNW are the Pacific Pond turtle and the Western Painted turtle. Both are threatened species due to RES and loss of habitat. It is against the law to own RES in Oregon.
If you can't find the owner your box turtle likes worms bugs crickets, and fruit, cantaloupe, berries, and other stuff I can remember now. But google Eastern Box turtle and see what you come up with. Good luck with it, keep us posted.


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## Maggie Cummings (Aug 11, 2015)

Am I seeing double????? Or not....


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## Angel Carrion (Aug 11, 2015)

Yup, eastern box turtle. Overgrown beak and nails implies time in captivity, possibly long term or life. The colors seem strange to me, would you be able to take more pictures? Head shot, plastron, tail, feet, and one from above?
Looks like there is also shell damage of some kind, hard to tell.
The "bleeding out of colors" could imply older age, or could be from lack of proper UV light source.


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## Angel Carrion (Aug 11, 2015)

An indoor enclosure at least 12 inches deep with at least 12-13 square feet of floor space is best. Outdoor is even better.

Sphagnum moss and milled coconut husk fiber (coco fiber/coir) or peat moss mixed together is a good moisture retaining substrate. It needs to be about 6 inches deep throughout the enclosure. Humidity needs to be between 70-90% in the enclosure. Using an accurate hydrometer is the best way to measure the levels. Having a water dish under the heat lamp is a way to keep humidity up, just make sure the water doesn't get too hot for the turtle. The moistened substrate will also keep humidity up. The water dish needs to be big enough that the turtle can soak on his own, but shallow enough that he doesn't accidentally flip over while trying to climb in or out. Misting the enclosure is another good way to keep humidity up. If you do put the water dish under the heat lamp, don't put it directly under and make sure there is room under the heat lamp for her to bask as well. 
Temp ranges; 80ish F on warm side, 70-75 F on cool side, 85-90 F for the basking spot. Nighttime temps should not go below 65 F.

Heat lamp UVA and a UVB bulb will be needed, or you can get a mercury vapor bulb which produces heat and UVB. If you get a heat lamp and UVB bulb separate of each other, make sure to not get a coil bulb. Those can damage turtle eyes and cause blindness. A UVB bulb should be replaced every 6 months, but a mercury vapor bulb can be replaced every 12-18 months. The lamps need to be 16-18 inches above turtle so as to avoid burning them. 
Using a digital temp gun is most useful in reading the temps accurately. I got mine off amazon for 12-14 bucks.

Food items and how much
Animal matter: 50% of meal -- crickets, earthworms, feeder fish (not goldfish - may make them sick, like upset stomach or something), Dubai roaches (yum!), mealworms (as a treat), grasshoppers, sow bugs, katydids, isopods, june bugs, slugs (but not banana slugs), terrestrial snails, waxworms, various grubs, superworms (zoophobas), blood worms, carrion, beefheart, gastropods, spiders, cicadas, silkworms, millipedes, pill bugs, butterfly larvae, preying mantids (remove spiked forelegs first), boiled skinless chicken, boiled eggs with shell, cooked lean ground beef, nightcrawlers. Can feed a pinkie or fuzzy once a month. Freeze in freezer bag for 72 hours at least to kill any parasites. Thaw in tepid water before serving. Never use microwave to defrost! NEVER FEED EASTERN TENT CATERPILLARS
Vegetables: 20% of meal -- pretty much all squashes, bell peppers (not often), carrots, corn on the cob (boiled, not often), green beans, okra, opuntia cactus pad & fruit, peas in the pod, various pumpkins, sweet potatoes, zucchini.
Greens: 10% of meal -- bibb, various kinds of clover, collard greens, dandelion greens & weeds, escarole, kale (not often), mustard greens, red leaf lettuce, green leaf lettuce, romaine lettuce, turnip greens, watercress, pesticide-free field-collected weeds & leaves (I suggest only picking those you can identify).
Fruits: 10% of meal -- apples, apricot, figs, banana (mainly as a treat), all berries, grapes, kiwi, all melons, peach, plum, tomatoes (never feed any other part of the tomato plant- not safe)
Fungi/mushrooms: 10% of meal -- chanterelle, fried-chicken mushrooms (yeah, that's a thing), meadow, morel, oyster, puffball, russulas, shaggy inkcap. (Yes those are all different mushrooms). Do not offer Portabello mushrooms. Can't remember why.

Once a week, lightly dust meal with a calcium supplement with Vitamin D3 and a vitamin supplement. I use Rep-Cal Phosphorus-free Calcium with Vitamin D3 (the phosphorus-free info is important) and ZooMed's Reptivite. Leaving a cuttlebone in the enclosure will give the turtle the opportunity to free-serve calcium as they need
Do not offer cat food as most commercial cat foods produce acidic urine, which will increase the excretion of calcium in the urine.This can and most likely will cause a calcium deficiency in reptiles and can lead to metabolic bone disease, shell deformities, and soft tissue calcification. Using a low-fat wet dog food can be done if the turtle will not eat anything you offer to entice them to start eating.

Dealing with a reluctant eater: Box turtles are most active in the mornings, evenings, and after it rains. Try misting the enclosure before feeding & offer meals in the morning after the turtle has had time to warm up but before the day becomes too hot. If the turtle continues to not eat, try overripe brightly colored fruits like strawberries and cantaloupe (those are my guys favorites) and bananas. Also, turtles are naturally attracted to moving food. If your turtle will only eat live foods, try cutting up a nightcrawler or two and mixing it with some veggies and fruits so that the wiggling in and on the meal will attract them. As they try to eat the nightcrawler, they will likely accidentally grab the greens and such. After doing this for a while, reduce the amount of nightcrawlers until the box turtle consistently eats the veggies and greens.

How to get shy turtles out to eat: feed underneath foliage and keep activity in the area to a minimum as much as possible while eating.
Be sure to offer a wide variety and change things up. Turtles become bored being offered the same foods every meal.

Feeding frequency: 
Hatchling to 1 year old, or underweight turtle - one to two days
one to three years old, or recovering from illness - two to three days
three years and older - three to four days
overweight - four days

Feed on a flat plate, plastic lid, flat rock, or paper plate. Be warned: turtles may try to eat the paper plates. Flat rocks are best generally because the rock will help file the beak and keep the nails trim.

Gut-loading insects: Crickets and mealworms (and others) can be gut-loaded two days before use. Feed them a high-calcium invertebrate food - sweet potato, high quality tropical fish flake, or low fat dry dog food. To provide the insects with moisture and added nutrients that will be passed on to the turtle, offer the feeders leafy greens like turnip greens or dandelion greens.

All invertebrate food items (except earthworms) should be lightly dusted with the calcium supplement just before serving. You can do this by putting some of the supplement powder in a sandwich bag then put that meal's insects in, close the bag, and gently shake to coat them in the supplement. Place in front of the turtle. If the feeders are moving around too much, the dust will fall off. It is best to offer them using forceps or by incapacitating them while still being able to move enough to draw the turtle's attention.
Make sure to mist the enclosure at least once a day.
I think that's it right now unless you want me to go into medical stuff.


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## Ianverm (Aug 11, 2015)

Wow, thanks for all of the responses everyone! We will get him some berries and worms for now. We have him in a big kiddie pool that has some topsoil as a substrate and i put a shallow ~2-3" deep dish of water that it can get into and drink from, as well as a little box for him to hide in. I will post back when we get him/her back to the rightful owner.


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## Grandpa Turtle 144 (Aug 11, 2015)

Hello and welcome to the TFO from AZ.


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## Ianverm (Aug 11, 2015)

Whoa Angel, Thanks for the detailed response! I will try my best to follow your guidelines, but hope that the owner will contact us soon. If not, we will certainly implement your box turtle guidelines.


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## Angel Carrion (Aug 11, 2015)

Almost looks....sunburnt. I would suggest soaking in semi-warm water of about 85F (sounds hot, but put your hand in it, it surprisingly feels warmish instead of hot) for about 15-30 minutes. If she wants to soak longer, let her. Have the water level be to about where her marginal scutes are on either side of her (where her plastron meets her carapace).
I'm saying "she" and "her" because it looks like she has brown eyes which, while not 100%, usually indicate female in eastern box turtles.


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## Tidgy's Dad (Aug 11, 2015)

Hello, Ian, and a very warm welcome to Tortoise Forum.
Thanks for coming here and listening to all the good advice.
Good luck to you and the turtle.


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## domalle (Aug 11, 2015)

maggie3fan said:


> The only turtles native to the PNW are Pacific Pond Turtles and Western Painted turtles, and both are threatened species because of RES and loss of habitat. You have an Eastern box turtle native to the North East and Midwest (not sure about the Mid West). They eat fruit, worms, crickets, most bugs actually, berries, cantaloupe and that's all I can think of right now. Your guy has an awfully long beak, it may be hard for him to eat. But he'd LOVE some night crawlers....3 should do it...



Besides the muted colors, I hesitated to identify it definitively because:
while it is definitely an Eastern Box Turtle, _Terrapene _carolina_ carolina, _it could also be a Three-toed Box Turtle, _Terrapene _carolina_ triunguis. _
As you will note from the generic label, the Three-toed Box is a form of Eastern Box that occurs in the Midwest.


_
_


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## Angel Carrion (Aug 11, 2015)

Ianverm said:


> Whoa Angel, Thanks for the detailed response! I will try my best to follow your guidelines, but hope that the owner will contact us soon. If not, we will certainly implement your box turtle guidelines.


Haha sorry, that's my copy and paste quick run down of eastern box turtles I typed up a couple days ago so that I didn't have to keep re-typing it over and over again. It's getting more use than I thought....
I understand waiting for a possible previous owner to show up since she obviously was captive for at least some time. If the owner does show up, may I suggest informing them of the visible problems she is having (overgrown beak and nails, possible sunburnt look, shell damage) and directing them towards this site so they may learn how to properly care for her?
Also, if you put up "found" signs, do not add a picture. Have whomever contacts you describe her to you or provide a picture of her to prove ownership. I've heard of situations where collectors, flippers, bad breeders, etc have used "found" signs to gather more torts/turtles for whatever purpose they have for them


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## Ianverm (Aug 11, 2015)

Good call Angel, we won't post pictures and make sure the owner can describe. We will also direct them to this site. If the owner is the one who posted signs around the neighborhood, this turtle has been surviving for at least a month in a very dry and hot (for the NW) summer, with no real water sources. I will try to get her to soak in some water. She loved the blackberries we gave her, and I will try to track down something this evening from the "animal" food source list you gave.


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## Angel Carrion (Aug 11, 2015)

_
_[/QUOTE]


domalle said:


> Besides the muted colors, I hesitated to identify it definitively because:
> while it is definitely an Eastern Box Turtle, _Terrapene _carolina_ carolina, _it could also be a Three-toed Box Turtle, _Terrapene _carolina_ triunguis. _
> As you will note from the generic label, the Three-toed Box is a form of Eastern Box that occurs in the Midwest.
> 
> ...


While that is true of 3toeds and Easterns, 3toeds do not have that type of pattern on their shells. Typically, they are pattern-less, but sometimes have a very mute pattern that tends to resemble that of an ornate box turtle, not an eastern (though typically that happens when ornates and 3toeds interbreed since their native territories overlap in places. Not every patterned 3toed is a hybrid, but the possibility of hybridization is possible).
3toeds tend to have an olive-colored shell of varying shades of dark/light-ness. Easterns tend to have brown/black shells with a couple different pattern options that are similar to each other. There is sunburst, bear claw, Phoenix, and at least one other I cannot think of at the moment. While hard to tell because of the "sunburn" (putting in quotes because I'm not sure that's what caused it, but sure looks like it), it appears as though maybe she has a Phoenix pattern on her carapace scutes. I could be wrong.


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## Angel Carrion (Aug 11, 2015)

Ianverm said:


> Good call Angel, we won't post pictures and make sure the owner can describe. We will also direct them to this site. If the owner is the one who posted signs around the neighborhood, this turtle has been surviving for at least a month in a very dry and hot (for the NW) summer, with no real water sources. I will try to get her to soak in some water. She loved the blackberries we gave her, and I will try to track down something this evening from the "animal" food source list you gave.


She looks to be an adult (possibly an older adult) so her surviving in your very dry area for a month is because of her age. If she were a hatchling, she wouldn't have survived. I don't believe a young juvenile would have survived, either.
She could have burrowed down and had some moisture that way in a micro-climate hole.
Either way, she's lucky your family found her.


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## domalle (Aug 11, 2015)

Angel Carrion said:


> While that is true of 3toeds and Easterns, 3toeds do not have that type of pattern on their shells. Typically, they are pattern-less, but sometimes have a very mute pattern that tends to resemble that of an ornate box turtle, not an eastern (though typically that happens when ornates and 3toeds interbreed since their native territories overlap in places. Not every patterned 3toed is a hybrid, but the possibility of hybridization is possible).
> 3toeds tend to have an olive-colored shell of varying shades of dark/light-ness. Easterns tend to have brown/black shells with a couple different pattern options that are similar to each other. There is sunburst, bear claw, Phoenix, and at least one other I cannot think of at the moment. While hard to tell because of the "sunburn" (putting in quotes because I'm not sure that's what caused it, but sure looks like it), it appears as though maybe she has a Phoenix pattern on her carapace scutes. I could be wrong.



We will have to agree to disagree.
Many _Terrapene carolina triunguis_ are patternless and many lose pattern and fade as they age.
Many have carapace markings like the turtle in question that persist.


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## johnsonnboswell (Aug 12, 2015)

Box turtles don't get sunburn, especially not in Washington state. You may find that a good mvb light changes the coloring somewhat, or this is an old animal with muted coloring.


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## Angel Carrion (Aug 12, 2015)

johnsonnboswell said:


> Box turtles don't get sunburn, especially not in Washington state. You may find that a good mvb light changes the coloring somewhat, or this is an old animal with muted coloring.


When I say sunburn I don't actually mean sunburn. It's just the best descriptive word I have. I do know they can be burned by being too close to a heat lamp.
Or maybe it is just her coloring.


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## lvstorts (Aug 12, 2015)

Hello fellow Washingtonion! I'm in the Tri-Cities and run a a rescue called Northwest Tortoise and raise Eastern Box Turtles as well. All the advice you've gotten here is fantastic! If there is anything I can help with 'locally' (across the state is not quite local but you get the idea!), please don't hesitate to ask. 

Welcome to turtle ownership!


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## Angel Carrion (Aug 12, 2015)

lvstorts said:


> Hello fellow Washingtonion! I'm in the Tri-Cities and run a a rescue called Northwest Tortoise and raise Eastern Box Turtles as well. All the advice you've gotten here is fantastic! If there is anything I can help with 'locally' (across the state is not quite local but you get the idea!), please don't hesitate to ask.
> 
> Welcome to turtle ownership!


Your Tickles is adorable, FYI.


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## MPRC (Aug 12, 2015)

@lvstorts - I drive through Tri-cities twice a month traveling between Eugene and Spokane. Sounds like we have a few PNW members floating around.


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## Ianverm (Aug 12, 2015)

lvstorts said:


> Hello fellow Washingtonion! I'm in the Tri-Cities and run a a rescue called Northwest Tortoise and raise Eastern Box Turtles as well. All the advice you've gotten here is fantastic! If there is anything I can help with 'locally' (across the state is not quite local but you get the idea!), please don't hesitate to ask.
> 
> Welcome to turtle ownership!



Hi Ivstorts,
Thanks for the offer of advice/help. Right now we are trying to find the owners of this little guy. She/he seems to be doing well; eating the berries and nightcrawlers we have put in the temporary enclosure. Hasn't tried the greens/sweet potato yet, but at least is eating and drinking. If we cannot find the owner, we will be looking for advice on how to find him/her an owner who can provide the proper care. Any idea on whether a regular vet would be able to trim his/her nails (they are extremely long) and maybe do a quick check up? Or would we need to find one that specializes in "exotic" pets?

Thanks again,
Ian


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## Tidgy's Dad (Aug 13, 2015)

A regular vet should be able to manage the nail trim without any problem, but personally I wouldn't trust one with even the most basic check up unless they kept tortoises themselves. Ordinary vets generally know nothing at all about torts and will look at the net or old books and offer outdated information. 
i'd find a specialist, if you want a check up done properly.


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## lvstorts (Aug 13, 2015)

Tidgy's Dad said:


> A regular vet should be able to manage the nail trim without any problem, but personally I wouldn't trust one with even the most basic check up unless they kept tortoises themselves. Ordinary vets generally know nothing at all about torts and will look at the net or old books and offer outdated information.
> i'd find a specialist, if you want a check up done properly.



I agree. And if a regular vet says they do reptiles, ask lots of questions to determine if they are actually a reptile vet. I've had lots of vets say 'yes, I'm a reptile vet' only to find out I know more than them and they cause more harm than good.


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## johnsonnboswell (Aug 13, 2015)

Was there a picture of the nails? They should be fairly long, but not curled or twisted. 

Clippers made for birds are good because they have a curved blade and don't flatten the nail as it's cut. Be careful not to cut the quick. Don't cut them short. Be sure they need cutting.


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## Ianverm (Aug 13, 2015)

The owner was found! They lost Walt Whitman (the turtle) about 3 weeks ago and are just a few houses and one street away from us. They found him in the alley behind their house 15 years ago. I referred them to this forum and they said they would be bringing him to a vet (one the turtle has been to before) to have his nails clipped. Thanks for the advice everyone!


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## MPRC (Aug 13, 2015)

Yay! I am so glad that there is a happy ending! What a funny name for a turtle. I hope they decide to join us here!


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## Tidgy's Dad (Aug 13, 2015)

A result! 
Well played Ianverm!


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## Maggie Cummings (Aug 31, 2015)

I know this is kinda late but someone should have mention a beak trim to, I do believe Yvonne G said it was long too...


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