# Gopherus flavomarginatus



## AustinASU (Sep 16, 2013)

Does anyone know the Legal ruling's on Gopherus flavomarginatus in Texas. I know they are listed on the ESA. But under ESA i know you can legally gift the species to another state as long as the recipient pays for nothing including the shipping( Since technically they aren't considered native to Texas because non were documented once Texas became a state......grrr)
. I'd really like to get any information to see who is all working with these species, I know a group is in Arizona and NM but I haven't heard any word about them in Texas....any help?


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## sibi (Sep 16, 2013)

Can you look online for the Texas Wildlife conservation and check their website for legal rulings concerning this species? That's where you'll find your answer.


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## BeeBee*BeeLeaves (Sep 16, 2013)

Love the Bolson. Don't know the legalities however. Was offered 6 babies a decade ago by a handyman whose family lived in the area where they are found but was afraid of getting in trouble for having them. Saw a few adults in person while travelling the area and they were glorious. Absolutely glorious. I fell in love. The Living Desert in Carlsbad NM has hatched over 100. And I know Behler Chelonian is working with this amazing tortoise and has secured something in the Bolson de Mapimi in the Chihuahuan Desert. I hope you find a way to work with them. They are gopherus magic, in my opinion.


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## theTurtleRoom (Sep 17, 2013)

The Gopherus species protected by Texas laws is berlandieri.


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## Yvonne G (Sep 17, 2013)

I'm not sure how it is in Texas, but here in California, ALL gopherus species fall under the same ruling, not just the indigenous Gopherus specie.

If you contact the Texas fish and wildlife people, try to talk to someone really conversant with the rules. Sometimes they just spout off what they THINK, and not what really IS.


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## BeeBee*BeeLeaves (Sep 17, 2013)

What is interesting about the Bolson, is that it is not found here in the USA anymore, but apparently they once were all over the southwest, including Texas and New Mexico. This is an interesting question. I go back to when I was offered the 6 babies. Could I have kept them without getting into trouble? The Bolson was referred to as tortuga topo by the locals where I was, "topo" is the Spanish word for mole. I get chills thinking about those I saw. Glorious in my eyes. I hope those tortoises still find themselves well out there. Sigh.


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## AustinASU (Sep 17, 2013)

Yeah the legalities on them in Texas aren't clear, Kelly told me to call El Paso zoo, because they've been breeding them there. Fingers crossed i hear good news back.


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## BeeBee*BeeLeaves (Sep 17, 2013)

I hope you find out something wonderful. I fell in love with them when I was in Rancho San Ignacio long ago, when it felt safe to travel there. No mas.


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## AustinASU (Sep 20, 2013)

Did you take pictures BeeBee? Waiting to hear back from El Paso


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## BeeBee*BeeLeaves (Sep 21, 2013)

Yes! Tons. Of big tortoises, the babies, the landscape, plants, people that live there! I must get them digitized and post for you. That's when it was, when we were still all using 35mm. Oy. Can't wait to hear what you hear. I tell you, if the three sweet gopherus we know are awesome, the "tortuga topo" is super awesome. Magnificent, they are. I do love.


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## Livin4Jesus (Sep 22, 2013)

I worked at the Living desert when we first brought them in!! I helped set up the breeding program and designed the pens, I worked their with them for 3 yrs and loved them but life moved me back to texas!! I would love to get them and breed them privately! So I interested in what you find out!!


This is Mr and Mrs B


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## tortadise (Sep 22, 2013)

BeeBee*BeeLeaves said:


> What is interesting about the Bolson, is that it is not found here in the USA anymore, but apparently they once were all over the southwest, including Texas and New Mexico. This is an interesting question. I go back to when I was offered the 6 babies. Could I have kept them without getting into trouble? The Bolson was referred to as tortuga topo by the locals where I was, "topo" is the Spanish word for mole. I get chills thinking about those I saw. Glorious in my eyes. I hope those tortoises still find themselves well out there. Sigh.





They are critically endangered now. The natural range for them is almost completely destroyed. Very small natural range they are found in now very far south of the border. They use to be rather common. They are a spectacular specimen indeed though. El Paso has a bunch of them. My good friend scopes the offspring for them(he's a DVM and does a lot of their vet services) 

They fall under the per ESA act. Either you have them grandfathered per 1974 or permits to posses them, which are not easy to get. The permit is not like a CBW its a ESP (endangered species permit) for said species. USFW just does not approve those with ease. I'm not sure if I could even get that permit without being an AZA or ZAA facility. Which is all political blah blah blah. So yeah. Maybe I can start working with El Paso zoo. But like the Texas tortoise they are rather finicky in husbandry care and can stress very easy.


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## BeeBee*BeeLeaves (Sep 24, 2013)

I am not savvy on the politics of endangered and I am not sure I can wrap my head around how it all works. I was afraid to accept those babies, because I am not one to take chances with the law and bringing them in to California was crazy vida loca for me. It would have been easy back then, but nevertheless, I did not want to take risks and get bad karma to pay later. However, I now regret, kinda. In the back of my head, I remember a family friend, a long time (career, yikes) politician, saying to my brother that critical and endangered is just a way to get more funding. Very flippantly I might add, and then also adding that critical and endangered status is an "easy manipulation". I have carried that conversation in my head for years. I often wonder, for the animals, or for the people? Who benefits. The recent disposable CDTs in Las Vegas, Nevada really triggered a nerve for me, because of that conversation. Does government use "critical" to jack up funding and then dispose of "critical" and "endangered" when there is no way to get funds? Anyway, I could go on and on and get high blood pressure ...

I really hope we can see some of you get involved with tortuga topo. That would be way, way cool! 

Living4Jesus, thanks for sharing that wonderful picture of Mr and Mrs B. Beautiful. Look at those faces. Smack! I kiss their cheekees from afar.


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## Livin4Jesus (Dec 2, 2013)

AustinASU said:


> Does anyone know the Legal ruling's on Gopherus flavomarginatus in Texas. I know they are listed on the ESA. But under ESA i know you can legally gift the species to another state as long as the recipient pays for nothing including the shipping( Since technically they aren't considered native to Texas because non were documented once Texas became a state......grrr)
> . I'd really like to get any information to see who is all working with these species, I know a group is in Arizona and NM but I haven't heard any word about them in Texas....any help?



Did you ever figure anything out on this?


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## diamondbp (Dec 2, 2013)

Livin4Jesus said:


> I worked at the Living desert when we first brought them in!! I helped set up the breeding program and designed the pens, I worked their with them for 3 yrs and loved them but life moved me back to texas!! I would love to get them and breed them privately! So I interested in what you find out!!
> 
> This is Mr and Mrs B



Wow how cool. I love the picture


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## ascott (Dec 2, 2013)

> that critical and endangered is just a way to get more funding. Very flippantly I might add, and then also adding that critical and endangered status is an "easy manipulation".



Absolutely... anytime a government agency needs to get additional/more funding...all they have to do is _create_ a cause---then take that cause to the masses who have apparently decided they are going to fall for the gov hoopla and there ya go... a cause with no real desire/plan to resolve...means alot of people make alot of profit and don't have to prove that it did any good because once the initial feel good cheering is done then it goes quiet, but the money still keeps coming in paying all the ridiculous sharks laying claim to being there for the cause...lol......all the set up is for-- is to pay people and not preserve the animal....


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