# Intentionally Flipping Your Tort For Practice??



## abclements (Jun 4, 2013)

Ok this is just something I thought about when reading another members story about his Red Foot flipping over in its water dish. But I'm curious what all your thoughts on this would be. 

Would it be beneficial to intentionally flip your tort on its back and let it struggle and learn how to right itself?? (Of course with close supervision)

A little back story: In the article mentioned above, most members were advocating for a "flip proof" environment, but there was one member that suggested giving the tort things to climb on and possibly increase the risk of flipping because they need to learn to right themselves like they would have to in the wild.

Thoughts?? 

Ready... GO! 

Disclaimer: Please keep the arguing to a minimum, I can see where this may possibly hit a few nerves, but I just want to get opinions on both sides. Thanks!


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## theelectraco (Jun 4, 2013)

In my opinion, it would be overly stressful, and may not even work. The chance of tortoises flipping seems slim from my experience on here, and if they are going to right themselves they need to have flipped on a spot where they have things they can leverage themselves on which may not be the case at time of flipping. I think if they are able to right themselves (things nearby to use to roll over) when the time comes, they will do it.


0.1.0 Dachshund
0.0.1 Redfoot
1.0.0 Greek 
0.0.1 Crested Gecko


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## Millerlite (Jun 4, 2013)

Mine would flip and I never would help, now when the flip over they can right them selves in almost any situation, I do believe the learn or build muscle to help the more they do it. Have I ever flipped mine to let the practice? No. But I never did help them unless they have up.


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## wellington (Jun 4, 2013)

I asked almost the exact question when I first joined two years ago. I was advised it was not a good thing, too stressful on the tortoise. My leopard has only flipped once and I flipped him back. I try to make his area as safe and flip proof as possible. I also try to make it where if he were to flip, he would possibly be able to catch a foot on something and flip himself. In the wild I would figure its easier to right themselves, as they would have a lot more plants, weeds, rocks, sticks, etc then most of us give them in an enclosure.


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## Team Gomberg (Jun 4, 2013)

I have never flipped for "turn over" practice and never will.

I have never seen my tortoises flipped on there backs either.

My school of thought has been to provide LOTS of plants to be good footing should they flip. All the plants would help them right themselves no problem. It has to be harder to flip right side up if you are just on flat dirt with nothing to grab hold of.

**In the past I would put them on their backs to weigh them, but now I put them upright on a cup. But this isn't really what you are asking about...


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## theelectraco (Jun 4, 2013)

I won't even flip mine over to measure.


0.1.0 Dachshund
0.0.1 Redfoot
1.0.0 Greek 
0.0.1 Crested Gecko


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## loyolaboy98 (Jun 4, 2013)

Mine was the one that flipped in the water dish, he was very stressed afterwards. His habitat is now flip proof, and i do not recomend flipping them for.practice. i imagine it must be extremly terrifying for the little guy!!!


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## Millerlite (Jun 4, 2013)

My mountain tortoises tend to flip a lot, but they also love to explore, both my box turtles and mt tortoises I've seen flipped into their dish both get out easy. I also have hills mounds wood etc to help


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## ascott (Jun 4, 2013)

I would not flip on purpose (not judging, just would not have thought to do that----)....I do not add things to the enclosures or yards because here in the desert a flipped tort in the summer is essentially a dead tortoise....so we don't play here....

I have come out to a flipped CDT with obvious sign as to what occurred and I will remove that obstacle or add something to the area to increase success on flip back over in the event of a roll over...and keep in mind all of the CDT here are adult males..so to find one flipped is kinda weird...but it does happen, hell---it happens in the wild as well....


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## Millerlite (Jun 4, 2013)

I'm sure it happens a lot in the wild, actually in the wild some species ram each other and flip each other, if they don't right themselves then it dies, cool tho


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## Tom (Jun 4, 2013)

No need to teach them something they already know how to do. A tortoise that has never flipped will right himself just fine if he is able to.


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## JoesMum (Jun 4, 2013)

While I advocate giving your tort the opportunity to make mistakes and learn from them, I would never flip a tort deliberately. Part of the learning process is learn to flip back and part of it is learning not to flip in the first place. If your tort has learned not to flip over, even with appropriate climbing practice available, then it's done well 

Joe used to flip himself regularly when he was small. Now he is a seasoned climber and can get up or down a step over 4 inches high... how else do you mount a sneak butting attack on someone sat innocently watching the tv when they think you are safely outside? He hardly ever flips these days as he has learned not to.


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## yagyujubei (Jun 5, 2013)

I like to throw mine up in the air to teach them to fly, but they don't seem to be able to learn this.


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## mctlong (Jun 5, 2013)

Yagyu - Maybe you forgot the cape? 

Drew - The problem I see with intentionally flipping over a tortoise is that it could be perceived as a sign of aggression. When torts become aggressive or territorial, they'll sometimes ram each other and try to flip each other over as a display of dominance. As such, intentionally flipping your tort over could really stress it out. 

That said, when I see a young tort flip itself, I don't come to the rescue right away. I'll give it a few minutes to let it try to flip itself back over. If it can't, then I'll help it out a little, but I try to let it do most of the work. I feel that flipping itself back over is good excercise and teaches the animal that with effort, it can flip itself back over on its own. After its safely right-side-up, I remove whatever obstacle caused the animal to flip over in the first place. 

On a side note - I strongly recommend flip-proofing enclosures and not including any obstacles (including plants) in the homes of very young hatchlings. I've had a hatchling who flipped over on vegetation, landed in a warm spot, and ended up dying because I was not home at the time to help it out. Don't mean to bum anyone out, but its an important lesson learned the hard way. Vegetation in this case did not give him leverage to flip himself back over, it was actually the cause of him flipping in the first place. This is why I advocate flip-proof living spaces for flip-prone torts like young hatchlings.


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## jeffstort (Jun 5, 2013)

This thread went from flipping over to flying pretty fast


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## theelectraco (Jun 5, 2013)

yagyujubei said:


> I like to throw mine up in the air to teach them to fly, but they don't seem to be able to learn this.



Lol xD


0.1.0 Dachshund
0.0.1 Redfoot
1.0.0 Greek 
0.0.1 Crested Gecko


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## abclements (Jun 5, 2013)

*Re: RE: Intentionally Flipping Your Tort For Practice??*



yagyujubei said:


> I like to throw mine up in the air to teach them to fly, but they don't seem to be able to learn this.



Haha well played!

Thanks for all of your posts. It has been fun reading through them all! Just as an fyi I have never intentionally flipped my tort nor was I ever planning on it. I was just very curious what y'all thought about it!

Sent from my LG-P769 using TortForum mobile app


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## farber2028 (Jun 5, 2013)

I'm on the side of not flipping them over. I am for the live and let learn take though. It's an instinct to try to right themselves I feel. I have a half log buried in my Greek's substrate. I watched her go over to the edge of it, check it out a few times, then precede to face plant off of it. Now she didn't flip herself, but she did have to go try it again. Ended the same way. Since that time, I have seen her stand on the edge of it and slowly turn around. I just built an outdoor space (check it out here: http://www.tortoiseforum.org/thread-72386.html ) for her that has a hide that she could walk off. The flipped over planter on the side with the cement block is what I'm talking about. I've watched her do the thing where she goes and thinks about climbing down it and she'll just turn and go down the hill instead. They're smart little creatures. That's why I'm for letting them learn by trial and error. It seems that they'll figure it out pretty quick and avoid anything that might put them in the same spot. She's probably 5-8 years old though. As for juvenile torts, I'm guessing it's not the same just because they're so curious. I've yet to handle a juvenile yet. I should in about 45 days or so though


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## Team Gomberg (Jun 5, 2013)

mctlong, 
Just to make sure I understood you correctly.. You prefer to keep hatchlings in an enclosure with no obstacles. No plants. Just substrate, water bowl and a hide? 

Sorry you lost a baby by flipping on plants. Poor baby. 

But if I did understand you correctly then I'd still say that the benefits of a heavy planted enclosure full of natural obstacles has enough benefits for me to keep it that way vs. the small possibility that the plants would cause flipping. 
Just my opinion based on my experience so far.

Heather
Sent from my Android TFO app


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## 7oasty23 (Jun 5, 2013)

yagyujubei said:


> I like to throw mine up in the air to teach them to fly, but they don't seem to be able to learn this.



Mine just doesn't flap his arms fast enough, I don't think his hearts in it. jk


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## mctlong (Jun 5, 2013)

Team Gomberg said:


> mctlong,
> Just to make sure I understood you correctly.. You prefer to keep hatchlings in an enclosure with no obstacles. No plants. Just substrate, water bowl and a hide?
> 
> Sorry you lost a baby by flipping on plants. Poor baby.



Yep, thats about it. Kinda boring-looking, but functional.




Team Gomberg said:


> But if I did understand you correctly then I'd still say that the benefits of a heavy planted enclosure full of natural obstacles has enough benefits for me to keep it that way vs. the small possibility that the plants would cause flipping.
> Just my opinion based on my experience so far.
> 
> Heather
> Sent from my Android TFO app



And I totally understand where you're coming from. We've just had different experiences resulting in different ways of doing things.


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## Millerlite (Jun 5, 2013)

I put more things inside the enclosure so they can learn at a young age flipping isn't really. A bad thing if they learn to right them selfs without any help. I know they have instinct on what to so if flipped, but I personally think they get better at doing it if you allow then to do it themselves when they do flip, I guess you can put them in a flat enclosure but in my experience Toetoises will always find a way to flip eventually, it can even be just boundaries of the enclosure that they flip themselves on.


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## hturner (Jun 5, 2013)

yagyujubei said:


> I like to throw mine up in the air to teach them to fly, but they don't seem to be able to learn this.



Haha!




7oasty23 said:


> yagyujubei said:
> 
> 
> > I like to throw mine up in the air to teach them to fly, but they don't seem to be able to learn this.
> ...



You guys are making my day!


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## Team Gomberg (Jun 5, 2013)

*Re: RE: Intentionally Flipping Your Tort For Practice??*



mctlong said:


> Yep, thats about it. Kinda boring-looking, but functional.
> 
> And I totally understand where you're coming from. We've just had different experiences resulting in different ways of doing things.



gottcha. Thanks for answering.

No trying to argue here, just wanted to make sure I understood your preference.
People reading will see that there are different ways of doing it. 
Everyone weighs the pros and cons and then makes the choice they feel confident in 


Heather
Sent from my Android TFO app


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## sueb4653 (Jun 5, 2013)

I wouldn't flip mine on purpose I have seen them flip by themselves and seen how they spazz out while they are flipped, I have left them to unflip themselves ( which they have successfully done without my interference). Why stress them by doing it on purpose to them


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## Terry Allan Hall (Jun 7, 2013)

yagyujubei said:


> I like to throw mine up in the air to teach them to fly, but they don't seem to be able to learn this.


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## Millerlite (Jun 7, 2013)

First one to teach their tort to fly wins!


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## Joanne (Jun 7, 2013)




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## wellington (Jun 7, 2013)

Joanne said:


>



LMAO, please tell me that's photoshopped.


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## abclements (Jun 7, 2013)

Naw! She just tossed that beautiful tort as high as she could and then snapped a pic! 

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## 7oasty23 (Jun 7, 2013)

wellington said:


> Joanne said:
> 
> 
> >
> ...



It's a rare flying tortoise, I believe they're native to Cloud City on Bespin.


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## Team Gomberg (Jun 7, 2013)

Hahaha.... Love it.

Heather
Sent from my Android TFO app


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## Joanne (Jun 8, 2013)

Hahahah.... I hope you can tell that it's 'shopped. But I actually used powerpoint and publisher for that stuff.


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## Moozillion (Jun 8, 2013)

Hilarious!!!! ...and very creative!!!! Loving this thread!


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## wiccan_chicken (Jun 11, 2013)

Joanne said:


>



That's one High Flying tortoise!


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## T33's Torts (Jun 29, 2013)

In my pov it's too risky and might cause excessive amounts of stress. Is just not right.


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## CourtneyG (Jun 29, 2013)

I have pancakes. I flip mine all the time or the one side will burn and then I will never be able to get the other side golden brown.


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## mctlong (Jun 29, 2013)

*Re: RE: Intentionally Flipping Your Tort For Practice??*



CourtneyG said:


> I have pancakes. I flip mine all the time or the one side will burn and then I will never be able to get the other side golden brown.



Haha! 

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## CourtneyG (Jun 29, 2013)

abclements said:


> Ok this is just something I thought about when reading another members story about his Red Foot flipping over in its water dish. But I'm curious what all your thoughts on this would be.
> 
> Would it be beneficial to intentionally flip your tort on its back and let it struggle and learn how to right itself?? (Of course with close supervision)
> 
> ...



Glad how the author of the thread was concerned about arguing. All we are doing is making silly jokes.


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## abclements (Jun 29, 2013)

Haha and I've really enjoyed reading through all of this! I makes me laugh lol


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## RosieRedfoot (Jul 4, 2013)

Before Rosie's current enclosure she'd flip herself trying to climb the walls but usually righted herself. A few times she even escaped (falling 2 feet) and was found wandering the room. I think tortoises in the wild would find themselves flipped or occasionally taking a fall and while I did not do these things intentionally, she's very good about righting herself. I wouldn't do it on purpose just because of the stress it causes.


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## Kameo37 (Jul 5, 2013)

Ok, this is both an interesting and entertaining thread! 
I have an almost 3 month old sulcata and I have found her flipped several times. Once in her water dish, which is, thankfully, shallow. The thing is that she is not even TRYING to right herself. I don't know if she has given up by the time I find her or what. Of the times it has happened it couldn't have been more than 20 min. There isn't a ton of stuff on her enclosure, but I know she's trying to climb her hides (or rearrange them) and getting off balance. Does that mean I need to clutter it up more?
Also, she never seems really affected by the experience. I flip her over and she goes on about her business. 

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## wellington (Jul 5, 2013)

Kameo37 said:


> Ok, this is both an interesting and entertaining thread!
> I have an almost 3 month old sulcata and I have found her flipped several times. Once in her water dish, which is, thankfully, shallow. The thing is that she is not even TRYING to right herself. I don't know if she has given up by the time I find her or what. Of the times it has happened it couldn't have been more than 20 min. There isn't a ton of stuff on her enclosure, but I know she's trying to climb her hides (or rearrange them) and getting off balance. Does that mean I need to clutter it up more?
> Also, she never seems really affected by the experience. I flip her over and she goes on about her business.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using TortForum mobile app



Being on their backs can cause problems even death. Cluttering t up more, may help as long as its not more things to fall off of, but try to figure out what she is doing to make herself flip and then fix it or take it out. Making a hide that they can't climb or putting a piece of wood across the inside of the corners will usually help. Also, putting things like rocks in their water dish will help them have something to grab hold of to right themselves. Making sure the water isn't too deep and that there is nothing under their basking light that could make them flip, as those are the worse places to flip. Most seem to grow out of it wonder they get a little older.


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## Kameo37 (Jul 5, 2013)

She can't climb her hides. They are plastic bowls, turned over with a hole cut out for a door. It's just the act of trying to climb then that's making her flip. 
I will try putting stones in her water dish (which is a plant saucer that is buried level in the substrate). 
I know the deadly consequences of her flipping, which is why I'm worried! I'm hoping is a young tortoise thing and that, like you said, she will outgrow it. 
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## Cutva (Jul 10, 2013)

Not a great idea in my opinion i have only had a tortoise flip over once.

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## Kameo37 (Jul 28, 2013)

Well, it does appear that she is learning. She flipped the other day and we happened to be right there. We gave her a minute and she totally righted herself! We were so proud that we clapped! 

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## abclements (Jul 28, 2013)

Awesome! Glad that she figured out a way to flip herself!


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## Sloane's Redfoots (Jul 29, 2013)

I think it depends on the tort. I have 2 RF's and Juno spazzes out when she flips. She doesn't even try to help herself. She's literally frozen in fear and she hides for the rest of the day. I've seen Jupiter flip and he waves his arms a little then looks at me like... uh... really? Just going to stand there I see. As soon as I turn him back he stomps over to his food dish as though I now owe him a treat for being so negligent.


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## AnnV (Jul 29, 2013)

Tort owners apparently are quick witts! LOL
My two redfoots are just about 2 1/2 years. I have found one of them flipped recently, twice now. Nothing changed in their enclose except that they have grown. So I removed some of the fake plants. I am thinking she flipped over on her buddy while squeezing through a tight spot.
I had the same experience as some others. She was just laying there. No apparent struggle. But no apparent stress, either. Once flipped back over, she just carried on. Of my two, who are the same age, she is biggest and has a lower dome.
I had been wondering how long they must be in that position before it is critical.

Ann from CT


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## Team Gomberg (Jul 30, 2013)

I just experienced my first flip. A new Leopard baby flipped onto its back while walking over a rock. Literally within 10 seconds "she" had flipped herself back over using the same rock for footing. 

Heather
Sent from my Android TFO app


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