# Legality of "Mexican" desert tortoises



## StudentoftheReptile (May 6, 2014)

What is the legality of keeping a desert tortoises, outside of their natural range?

Someone has approached me (because I'm the local tortoise guy) with two (presumably) WC desert tortoises. Lord knows where they came from. I'm in Alabama and these are not gopher tortoises (Gopherus polyphemus). Do I require a permit to keep any other type of Gopherus in my state?


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## Maggie Cummings (May 6, 2014)

All I know is it's a federal offense to remove any Gopherus agassizii from Calif...and if you turned them into the DF&G they would be euthanized...can you post pix of them so we can ID them? Or send a PM to Yvonne G. if you don't want to post them on an open forum...


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## StudentoftheReptile (May 7, 2014)

I do not possess them yet so do not have photos. I have been told they did not come from CA.


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## tortadise (May 7, 2014)

Believe the same rule applies for arizona. If they are Bolsen(flavomarginata) those are listed on the endangered species act and would technically require a ESA permit to posses.


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## Yvonne G (May 7, 2014)

We had a thread last year about a rescue on the east side of the U.S. that came into a desert tortoise. It was placed with one of our members. I don't remember the legalities of the placement, but I think that since you don't know where the tortoise came from it would probably be ok for you to have it. You might contact your state's department of fish and game and see if it would be possible to get a permit to keep a protected tortoise from a different state. You could always contact them 'hypothetically'


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## Tom (May 7, 2014)

When the "authorities" send their highly experienced and never wrong tortoise identifiers your way, how will they be able to tell which side of the border this tortoise came from?

If I recall correctly, there is nothing in the law denoting that Gopherus species that occur both here and in Mexico are in any way different in the eyes of the law. The whole species is "protected" (can also be read as restricted). I don't think they care where it came from. Some of these enforcement agents are despicable people doing despicable things.


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## ascott (May 7, 2014)

Well, you did not participate in the moving of the tort over state lines....for all you know these are offspring from someones long term care tortoise that would not have been part of the permitting requirements....I would simply take them in and care for them as turned in tortoise...period. It is not illegal for one to be in another state, it is illegal to move them from their home state....the deed has already been done, wether it be in the last year or parents 75 years ago.....you are simply taking in a turned over tort....


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## Tom (May 7, 2014)

ascott said:


> Well, you did not participate in the moving of the tort over state lines....for all you know these are offspring from someones long term care tortoise that would not have been part of the permitting requirements....I would simply take them in and care for them as turned in tortoise...period. It is not illegal for one to be in another state, it is illegal to move them from their home state....the deed has already been done, wether it be in the last year or parents 75 years ago.....you are simply taking in a turned over tort....



I'm pretty sure it doesn't work that way. If it did everyone all over the country would have them.


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## ascott (May 7, 2014)

Tom, loads of folks do have them all over the country....there was a time that there was no regulations for this species and once the torts are in another state there is little that an agent will do if one or two are located under care in another state....is it "legal"? there is no exact answer...the crime is the_* transport*_ of the tort over state line / *removal* of tort out of their native state....pretty sure.


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