# TORTOISE DEPRESSION



## ALDABRAMAN (Jul 29, 2012)

*We have had Alfa now for about two months. We purchased him from a private zoo where he was housed on pure sand and concrete. We spent many hours watching him at the zoo prior to purchasing him and decided he was perfect for our breeding program despite his obvious classic signs of depression. The day we took possession of Alfa, the zoo owner disclosed that the zoo vet had diagnosed him with depression several years back and that he had lost a lot of weight. Anyway, we are convinced that he was very depressed based on what we see now. He is not the same tortoise that we saw in the zoo environment, he seems so happy and at peace now in his new home. My question is do you think tortoises can get depressed when exposed to certain circumstances?*


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## dmmj (Jul 29, 2012)

I honestly don't think it is depression like it is in humans. I think they can be unhappy in poor living conditions, but I don't think it extends to being depressed. Ok I overused the word think there.


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## ascott (Jul 29, 2012)

Yes, absolutely I do believe any living creature can and does show signs of depression.


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## Eweezyfosheezy (Jul 29, 2012)

I think it all has to do with stress. The more stress an animal is put through the more depressed he will become. He obviously was not kept in the best of conditions before he arrived to you which would cause a lot of stress. And now hes at a completely natural environment at your place which takes all the stress away.


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## CactusVinnie (Jul 29, 2012)

I would call the effects of prolonged stress and incorrect maintenance as "depression", reptile variant. A state of "lack of mojo", that didn't resolve itself right after changing to better conditions, but taking some more time. Biochemical imballances that accumulated in a certain period of bad maintenance take time also for recovering, and tortoise taking his time to achieve that.


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## GBtortoises (Jul 30, 2012)

I'm curious as to how a professional zoo vet goes about diagnosing a tortoise with depression? Based on what? Sorry but I don't buy the whole "tortoises have human feelings" bit. Nor do any other lesser advanced animals. Animals, almost all mammals as well as many bird species undoubtably display some forms of emotion and the ability to logically reason. Lesser developed animals, mostly those that are food for the advanced species, do not. Tortoises, like it or not fit into that last catergory in the wild-food for other animals. 
A tortoise's lack of action mistaken for "depression" is more acurately varying levels of inactivity and stress based solely on their environmental conditions. Temperature & humidity variants, food availability (and quality), shelter (security) and other factors that they cannot control determine their actions or lack of. 
Tortoises have four constant instinctual life modes that drive them: eat, sleep, reproduce, survive.


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## StudentoftheReptile (Jul 30, 2012)

If depression is perhaps not the most accurate term to describe this phenomenon in a tortoise (or say, any reptile), what IS the word to use?


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## Terry Allan Hall (Jul 30, 2012)

An interesting question. One of my daughter's Ornate Box turtles had what might be called depression (very poor appetite, lethargic) possibly due to too many years of being fed only canned Box Turtle food and living in a pretty stark 20L tank, but once she came to live in the Ornate's outdoor enclosure and has access to real sunlight, things to climb into, over and around, and a varied diet, she perked up quite a bit.


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## ALDABRAMAN (Jul 30, 2012)

Terry Allan Hall said:


> An interesting question. One of my daughter's Ornate Box turtles had what might be called depression (very poor appetite, lethargic) possibly due to too many years of being fed only canned Box Turtle food and living in a pretty stark 20L tank, but once she came to live in the Ornate's outdoor enclosure and has access to real sunlight, things to climb into, over and around, and a varied diet, she perked up quite a bit.



 *Good example!*


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## Kenazfehu (Jul 30, 2012)

Perhaps a better term for it would be "failure to thrive". 

My daughter took a trip to Ecuador and met a giant tortoise who lived in the school yard of an elementary school. Many years before, someone brought the injured tortoise to the school, and one of the teachers took care of it. The tortoise lived at the school for several years, then they moved her/him to a tortoise refuge where I think we can assume the conditions were right for a tortoise of that type. Immediately the tortoise stopped eating and drinking and just lay around. So they returned her/him to the elementary school after a few weeks, where he/she immediately perked up and resumed normal life. Whether we call it "depression" or "failure to thrive", something was wrong, but it was corrected. Yay!


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## wellington (Jul 30, 2012)

Many animals show signs of depression. I do believe animals and tortoises can have it. Depression might not be the adequate word, but it is the easies to use. We all know what it means and most of us know some way to try and better the feeling. People get depressed, but are not considered clinically depress. Tortoise may not get clinically depressed, but i believe they can get depressed, the blues, like people time to time can have. I guess we have three great examples right here on this thread. 

Greg, would be very helpful and interesting, if you could tell us more about the signs you may have seen. Other then the fact he lost weight, and was housed on only concrete and sand, what did you and your wife see that made you think he was depressed. What other signs do you see now, besides eating from your hand and humping every female LOL are their other signs that we may not be able to see in a picture, that shows he is no longer depressed?


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## CLMoss (Jul 30, 2012)

I would say yes.


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## Kenazfehu (Jul 31, 2012)

I thought you might like to see a picture of the no longer depressed/now thriving giant tortoise that my daughter met in Ecuador.




The caretakers explained that the tortoise liked the attention of all the children, and that is why he/she stopped eating and drinking when they sent him/her to the refuge. (I'm sorry; I can't remember if the tortoise was male or female or if my daughter even told me.)


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## AndreaRosie (Aug 7, 2012)

I think animals can get depressed. My turtles gave me the cold shoulder when I returned from vacation. They would just walk away and leave there food. Finally after giving them strawberries they started to warm up. It just amazes me how such a small brain can do so much. Any animal can get depressed maybe not crickets and such but turtles yes.


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## Neal (Aug 9, 2012)

I really don't know how animals think, or what goes on in their heads. I think the lack of stimulation and activity that alpha was faced with at the zoo compared to what he is getting now could probably lead him to display symptoms that we as humans would associate with depression, such as sleeping all day and moving very little throughout the day. So, I don't know if I'd call it depression, I would say it would be more correct to refer to the behavior he showed at the zoo as lack of stimulation.


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## ALDABRAMAN (Aug 9, 2012)

Neal said:


> *I would say it would be more correct to refer to the behavior he showed at the zoo as lack of stimulation. *



*Good point!*


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## terryo (Aug 9, 2012)

Pio (my Cherry Head) was raised with a Three Toed Box Turtle from the time they were both 1 month old until they were three years old. When I separated them, Pio stopped eating and paced the enclosure for two days, and finally just went in her hide and stayed there, not eating nor coming out again, until I put the TTBT back, and then she went back to being normal again. When they were finally separated for good, she did the same thing. It took a long while for her to gradually come back to being herself. The TT, never missed a beat. Didn't seem to care at all. I think growing up with a companion gave her a very sweet and out going personality......but that's for another debate.


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## Yvonne G (Aug 9, 2012)

I've always said that they "pout," but depression probably sounds better.


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