# Heat sources and humidity levels



## Alexio (May 18, 2016)

I was unsure about whether to post this question here or on the tortoise enclosure section, but I have a feeling there may not end up being a one right answer. 

When it comes to providing heat for reptiles and tortoises more specifically you basically have 4 "in tank" heat sources. 


1. Your incandescent bulbs and mercury vapor bulbs.

2. Ceramic heat emitters 

3. Radiant heat pannels 

4. Under the tank heating in the form of a heat mat or heat tape
(This is provided that a pulse proportional thermostat is being used to control the device to the correct level if needed.)

I have seen all 4 of these used in tortoise keeping and my question is which of these methods dries out the air least? Or the most?


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## JoesMum (May 18, 2016)

I think you're missing the point a bit

1. Basking Lamp/MVB - These are required by day for your tort to bask. A tort must bask in order to raise its core temperature. The core temperature must rise for it to be able to digest food and be active. A basking lamp is on for 12-14 hours and does not get used with a thermostat. Temperature directly under the lamp is regulated by controlling its height above the substrate.

2. Ceramic Heat Emitters are not generally used by day as they emit no light. they are supplementary heaters for raising temperature and are usually used at night. They are put on a thermostat to regulate the temperature.

3. Radiant heat panels get used to raise the ambient temperatiure of a room. Apart from the biggest tortoises, they are not used within an enclosure.

4. Day to day a mat isn't recommended as torts like to dig down into the substrate. They can't dig through a mat and if they do there could be a problem!

I cannot answer about drying out the air. 

To raise the humidity, you need to close in your setup either partially or fully to reduce evaporation and dump water in the substrate so that it is moist. You then make sure that the temperatures are correct in the enclosure by measuring them accurately with a temperature gun thermometer. If it is too cold then you will have shell rot rather than a controlled humidity environment.


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## Alexio (May 18, 2016)

I feel like you have missed the point a bit...
You can use different heating systems in conjunction with different lighting systems. For example you could use radiant heat pannels or a ceramic heat emitter during the day to provide heat and use only uvb strip lighting with ambient strip lighting as well. 
There are also people who have large barns who use radiant heat pannels embedded in the concrete floor hooked up to a thermostat. 
It is a misconception that under the tank heating is bad for tortoises. UNREGULATED under the tank heat sources can be very dangerous. This is where you use a pile proportional thermostat to set the heat tape/mat to 80 or 90 degrees so that the mat is only warm but not hot to the touch and then run it under the enclosure. Properly regulated heat tape is just as safe or safer than tradition on off heat sources which get burning hot to the touch. A ceramic heat emitter can melt a carpet in seconds but people recommend they be used in tortoise enclosures all the time. 
You would not be using a thermostat for your basking lights, that's what I stated that you would only need to regulate certain types of heating. Perhaps I should have been more specific. 
Also you can raise the humidity or lower it in any enclosure by doing any different number of things. This post is not about trying to raise the humidity or which source is the most readily agreed upon. I am trying to find out where from a scientific standpoint in a vacuum where all other factors being equal which of these heating sources will have the more air drying effect. 
Sorry for the confusion.


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## Anyfoot (May 26, 2016)

If it was possible (and its not) to have a 100% insulated heat loss resistant enclosure and you wanted an ambient of let's say 90f, and you could get a heat source that only reached a maximum of 90f(RHP maybe) eventually that enclosure would reach 90f with minimal humidity drying out because none of the air reached above 90f. 
If you was to have a heat source of let's say 500f(CHE maybe) on a stat(controlled at 90f) in an Enclosure , the air immediately around that CHE would dry out more than where ever in the enclosure only ever gets to 90f max. 
If you look at Toms enclosure designs they are all heavily insulated to slow down heat loss, this means you can have a lower heat output to maintain the same ambient than if it was an uninsulated enclosure. Lower heat output from the same type of device dries the immediate air slower. For example a 200watt che will dry the immediate air 1" away from the CHE faster than a 100watt would at the same 1" distance because at that same distance it's hotter with the 200watt. 

Dont know if that helps. 

I'm off to look for some headache tablets


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## Yvonne G (May 26, 2016)

I use a mercury vapor bulb indoors for heat and UVB with black lights for night time.

Outside in the sheds and night houses I have a couple different heat sources and no UVB lights. For winter non-sunny days, I turn on a regular 100 watt bulb inside the shed to provide a simulated sun for them to sit under. There is also a pig blanket on the floor. For the night house that's in the greenhouse, I have a tube type fluorescent bulb for non sunny days, but the greenhouse usually warms up enough the tortoises can still leave the night house, and radiant heat panels on the walls.


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## Markw84 (May 26, 2016)

Daytime basking heat is also provided to stimulate basking behavior. A fluorescent UVB source alone will not do that. A heat source from above close to the UVB source is required. Most of the basking time aside from thermoregulation is for the skin to heat up in order to convert pre vitamin D to D3. This is only done in the skin. A basking tortoise that stretches out its legs and has turned the underside of its front legs to the sun is doing this. (The underside of the front legs does not have the thick scalation). A heat source from beneath cannot provide this. The MVB is the best in this regard as the heat source that will stimulate basking is also the source of UVB. Many enclosed chambers however will overheat with MVB so fluorescent becomes the choice there. Just need to have the basking heat source close to the UVB Source


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