# is a 4ft x 2ft enclosure adequate for a full grown russian tortoise?



## khanvict (May 28, 2010)

I want to build the enclosure before I get the tortoise and I was wanting to know if 48"x24" (4ft x 2ft) is adequate to house one fully grown russian? I ask about these restrictions specifically because I want to see if I can find an old foosball table on craigslist and convert it into a tortoise table. The playing surface of a standard foosball table is 48" x 27".

Your opinions, experiences, and input are greatly appreciated.


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## Yvonne G (May 28, 2010)

Hi Khanvict:

Welcome to the forum!!


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## DeanS (May 28, 2010)

It's GREAT to see someone responsible enough to take habitat into consideration prior to acquiring the animal...KUDOS! Now, to answer your question...it would be adequate for hatchlings - yearlings (possibly up to 2 years) but that's about it.


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## ehopkins12 (May 28, 2010)

i had a 4x2 tortoise table when i first got mine. It was perfectly fine. he roamed around and was very happy. Now he's in a 8x4 outdoor enclosure. but a 4x2 is absolutely enough space in my opinion. It's plenty of space to have multiple hides and a different temp gradient and room to roam.


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## khanvict (May 28, 2010)

emysemys said:


> Hi Khanvict:
> 
> Welcome to the forum!!



hi, thanks for having me. you should be seeing me post regularly on here as i'm sure to have a lot of questions as i prepare to get my first tortoise (and first ever pet actually).



DeanS said:


> It's GREAT to see someone responsible enough to take habitat into consideration prior to acquiring the animal...KUDOS! Now, to answer your question...it would be adequate for hatchlings - yearlings (possibly up to 2 years) but that's about it.



thanks, i'm just trying to do as much research as possible as this is all very new territory for me. sounds good, if all goes as planned, i managed to find a free foosball table on craigslist which I can pick up tomorrow and with the modifications i have in mind, albeit i'm neither crafty nor handy, hopefully it can become a decent enclosure for the time being at least.



ehopkins12 said:


> i had a 4x2 tortoise table when i first got mine. It was perfectly fine. he roamed around and was very happy. Now he's in a 8x4 outdoor enclosure. but a 4x2 is absolutely enough space in my opinion. It's plenty of space to have multiple hides and a different temp gradient and room to roam.



thanks for the input. space is limited for me living in an apartment. however, i do have two patios, one of which would actually make a good space for an outdoor enclosure - it's all concrete and it's no backyard by any means but a lot more space than I could devote indoors. my primary concern would be about bugs/mosquitos/weather or what have you bothering the tortoise all the time unsupervised which is why I want to primarily keep him inside. i'd let him outside too though so he can be stimulated and move around more freely and won't feel stuck indoors all the time either.


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## Seiryu (May 28, 2010)

Bugs are fine, unless you get some type of nasty infestation of red ants or something. Mosquitos, flies, normal ants are OK

I think a 4x2 ft enclosure is good for a smaller tort. But an adult will need something bigger. Bigger is always better


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## Floof (May 28, 2010)

My 6" girl was in a 4x1.5 ft enclosure for a while... Personally, I felt it was too small. She's in a 6x2 ft now, which seems to be the perfect size--small enough that it doesn't take up the entire room, but large enough for hides, water dish, etc, while still allowing her to move around comfortably. So, that's my suggestion for an adult Russian's minimum enclosure--6x2 ft.


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## khanvict (May 28, 2010)

Seiryu said:


> Bugs are fine, unless you get some type of nasty infestation of red ants or something. Mosquitos, flies, normal ants are OK
> 
> I think a 4x2 ft enclosure is good for a smaller tort. But an adult will need something bigger. Bigger is always better





Floof said:


> My 6" girl was in a 4x1.5 ft enclosure for a while... Personally, I felt it was too small. She's in a 6x2 ft now, which seems to be the perfect size--small enough that it doesn't take up the entire room, but large enough for hides, water dish, etc, while still allowing her to move around comfortably. So, that's my suggestion for an adult Russian's minimum enclosure--6x2 ft.



true and true to both of your points. more space is always better. i'll try and see if it's possible to add a 2nd floor to the enclosure somehow to at least manipulate the space limitations but it will all be experimental. just want to attempt something unconventional and see if i can actually make it work. if it turns out to be a truly poor choice i will opt for something else.


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## goodsmeagol (May 28, 2010)

When I was looking into buying my Russian.
I was told by a lot of sources that a 55gallon xmas tree bin would be fine.
Thats like 42"x18" or something similar.
I had mine in it for 1 week before I added a second bin of equal size.
Now I have my 4.5"male and my 6" female in their own 6x2 cages.
If your space limited go with the male, they do not get as big?
I remember reading somewhere this formula, dunno what source.
Start with 2 sq ft, then ad 2sq feet for every inch of shell for a decent size cage.


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## khanvict (May 28, 2010)

goodsmeagol said:


> When I was looking into buying my Russian.
> I was told by a lot of sources that a 55gallon xmas tree bin would be fine.
> Thats like 42"x18" or something similar.
> I had mine in it for 1 week before I added a second bin of equal size.
> ...



i agree with you on the 6x2 being a sort of a 'sweet spot' and i also wanted to do a cage initially but couldn't find one in that particular size. i think i could manage doing a setup of that size and after googling some examples of do-it-yourself cages, it lead me to a simpler solution and i thank you for the moment of epiphany.

while i'm at it, i would like to ask openly to anyone reading some other questions:

1) substrate - what do you use? what should i look for? what should i stay away from?
2) there's so many UV-B and heat bulbs out there with different watts and what not - i would like to get a 2in1 UV-B and heat bulb and wanted some input on which is the most recommended and economical (and also the housing/lamp for the bulb or whatever it's called, i think they are sold separately?). i see some that are like screw-in bulbs and others that are like tube lights.
3) which calcium powders do you sprinkle in their food if any?
4) how often do you feed them/is there a particular time of day that is better to feed?

i know these are n00b questions and i have read some of this stuff on the internet already but i would like to get your take.

thanks.


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## Tom (May 28, 2010)

First, everybody's got their own opinion, but I think 4x2 is too small for an adult Russian. Its not that it will kill it if its not bigger, its just kind of cramped for an active adult Russian.

1. Coco fiber, plain soil with no additives, fine orchid bark, cypress mulch or a combo of any of the above. Avoid sand.
2. If he's getting direct sunshine several times a week, then just use a regular incandescent flood bulb. Use a thermometer to make sure the basking temp is right. Adjust the temp by raising or lowering the bulb OR by raising or lowering the wattage of the bulb. If he's not getting outside, use a Mercury Vapor Bulb (MVB).
3. Brand doesn't matter. Just use powdered calcium carbonate. If he's getting regular sun, then no D3. If not, then some D3. You'll have to guess how much is enough D3 verses too much D3.
4. Everybody's got an opinion on this too. Here's mine: It doesn't really matter. I like to let mine warm up a bit first, so I usually feed them mid day. Sometimes, however, its late afternoon or early morning, if I know I'll be busy later.


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## Seiryu (May 29, 2010)

Tom said:


> 1. Coco fiber, plain soil with no additives, fine orchid bark, cypress mulch or a combo of any of the above. Avoid sand.
> *I would avoid JUST sand, but mixing it with the coco fiber I don't think hurts. I do it and have never noticed anything bad. It just clumps with the stuff.*
> 
> 4. Everybody's got an opinion on this too. Here's mine: It doesn't really matter. I like to let mine warm up a bit first, so I usually feed them mid day. Sometimes, however, its late afternoon or early morning, if I know I'll be busy later.
> *I agree. I turn my lights on at 7-7:30am and if I feed him before 9, then he eats about half as much as usual. I usually feed mine at 11am and then again at 4pm. I also think waiting for a few hours to feed them helps with exercise too as they will walk around looking for food for those few hours that they have been awake.*


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## murdocjunior (May 29, 2010)

I agree bigger is better. If you are guna put hard work then just do it right the first time.  and welcome to the forum


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## khanvict (May 30, 2010)

murdocjunior said:


> I agree bigger is better. If you are guna put hard work then just do it right the first time.  and welcome to the forum



thanks for your reply and everyone elses. i am deciding to go a different route and not use the foosball table idea. i'm gonna go for something a little bigger  . hopefully i'll get a chance to get the materials this week and when i have the basic shell of the enclosure set-up i will post pictures later on.


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