# Enclosure lighting night mare



## tooortoisetortoise (Feb 15, 2012)

Ok so I went to petsmart to pick up supplies such as lighting and heat sources. The girl got me to buy flukers brand clamp lamp w dimmer used for incandescent light bulbs. She told me to use that fixture w the brand all living things ceramic heat emitter it's black colored ...I think that's right but it doesn't seem to be shooting warm ness to a 90 degree level down to the floor like the Tort needs..., it says you have to aim the lamp exactly right I put a screen top and set the lamp on that is that ok? It's because I discovered the clamp lamp is missing a part so I can't clamp it till I go back tomorrow and exchange it or whatever. What is the best fixture for a heat emitting bulb? It's non light emitting just heat....and the girl got me to buy a repti glow brand 10.0 UVB ---26 watt desert terrarium lamp bulb thing to use w a dome fixture... Thats right right? Help!


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## bikerchicspain (Feb 15, 2012)

First of what tort is it, because a 10.0 is to much for any normal tort... Secondly the best light source is a MVB light, it also gives of some heat..
make sure your bulb is not a coil they are dangerous. I would take them all back and get a MVB and a more powerful ceramic.
The ceramic heater may not be powerfully enough. I have to use a 250 w to keep things warm enough.


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## EKLC (Feb 15, 2012)

The ceramic heat emitter (CHE) is recommended for use with wire cage style light fixtures.






In reflective domes, too much heat can build up, which can damage the CHE. 

However, the flukers clamp lamp is actually a pretty wide dome, so perhaps it would be dissipative enough for a lower watt CHE. I personally use a 60 W CHE in a dome with no problems. 

In regards to it's heat output, is it getting hot at all? Did you let it warm up a bit? I wouldn't expect much heat in the first few minutes. What is the ambient temperature of the room? Does your enclosure have an open top or is it closed?


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## tooortoisetortoise (Feb 16, 2012)

hi all thanks for the responses. My tort is a redfoot tortoise that is quite small i am guessing under 10 weeks old. My enclosure is open top for now i used a mesh lid for my old ten gallon to hold up the clamp lamp (flukers) that has the heat emitter all living things brand black bulb in it ...its been going for about an hour or near and i can feel the heat if i put my hand inches away from the bulb but once i reach the floor area where the tort is i feel no real heat.....my house/room temp is in the low 60's if not 50's. I was going to purchase a wire fixture for the heat emitter but the girl said it was ok to use the clamp lamp from flukers..i believe its a 8.5 inch one not a 10....i also bought a 10'' dome flukers fixture too for the other bulb the repti-one or whichever brand i listed originally for the uva and uvb lighting only...is that right? and is there a way to tell if the heat emitter bulb has a coil? its black colored so i cannot tell...it says it is a ceramic bulb.....and that i have to angle it just right so for now the fixture/lamp is pointed straight downward to the floor...its a 100w ..... i mentioned i needed it to be 90 degrees in the hot spot for the tort and originally was going to get a 125w exo terra bulb but she said it would cook the tort like make it over 100 degrees easily and i did not want to have it harm the tort..... so i plan to go back tomorrow to swap it out,,, is there anyway to tell which bulbs are suitable for which fixture aside from the fixture saying the most watts it can take? is there a way to tell which bulb is mvb?"

Ps. I tried getting the exo terra bulb which emits mercury vapors but she said its super dangerous and if it broke or something it would kill the tort and be super dangerous.....having said this, are there any suggestions on brands of mvb that even petsmart would have? I am freaking out  i was so excited and was hoping to have the little tort's home ready and up and running...


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## EKLC (Feb 16, 2012)

"Coil" refers to a design of flourescent UVB emitting bulb, in which the bulb is in the form of a coiled tube. These have been known to damage the eyes of torts.

First, and foremost, your tort needs to be warm. 80-85 is a good night temp for a little one. I wouldn't imagine a 100 W CHE to be able to compete with a 50-60 degree room. CHE's get hot, but don't really direct heat like a basking light. So in an open top enclosure, the heat is probably just rising up and out of the tank. 

Do you have a plastic storage bin, like this http://www.walmart.com/ip/Sterilite-73-Quart-Storage-Bin-in-White-Set-of-4/8282896 ?

If so you can put it over the enclosure, to allow your CHE to build up enough heat to achieve the 80-85 degrees where your tort is.


In regards to the mercury vapor bulb, they are heat lamps that also provide UVB, so you don't need to buy a separate basking bulb and UVB bulb. MVBs are also considered a better source of UVB than flourescent UVB lights. 

If you can take your tort out in the sun a few times a week, then you do not need a UVB source at all, as sunlight is the best. 

The flourescent UVB lights are often criticized, as they are rendered useless when placed too far away, but some models have been known to damage the tort's eyes when too close. 

If you have a small enclosure, a MVB bulb will probably be too hot. 

For the time being, get your tort warm. Then take some pics of your enclosure, let us know the climate you live in/the ability for your tort to go outside, and we will let you know what UVB setup would be best


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## tooortoisetortoise (Feb 16, 2012)

I currently have a 29 gallon tank.... I planned to buy a storage bin but was told it was ok at least for now to keep him/her in the current set up....what do you recommend for the fixture and bulb for heating and uva and uvb exposure? I know pretty sad but i need to be directed to which fixture goes with which and which are reccomended....I learned that young tiny torts are fragile , more so than adults so I am so worried for my tort... I want him to survive...please advise, thanks..


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## EKLC (Feb 16, 2012)

tooortoisetortoise said:


> I currently have a 29 gallon tank.... I planned to buy a storage bin but was told it was ok at least for now to keep him/her in the current set up....what do you recommend for the fixture and bulb for heating and uva and uvb exposure? I know pretty sad but i need to be directed to which fixture goes with which and which are reccomended....I learned that young tiny torts are fragile , more so than adults so I am so worried for my tort... I want him to survive...please advise, thanks..



Do you have a thermometer? What is the temp where your tortoise is?


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## tooortoisetortoise (Feb 16, 2012)

The temp is 72 degrees...


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## EKLC (Feb 16, 2012)

tooortoisetortoise said:


> The temp is 72 degrees...



That's not horrible, so no need to panic

You should get that temp to 80. In a cold room, it really helps to cover the top to keep some heat in. In my old setup, I made a little canopy, but then just switched to a plastic storage bin which did the same thing. Even a cardboard box would work, just make sure it doesn't touch that hot CHE. 






In this setup, I have my CHE and an incandescent basking lamp on top of the wire mesh of the tank. I don't have a UVB because I am able to take my tort in the sunshine often.


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## tooortoisetortoise (Feb 16, 2012)

What uva/uvb bulb w which fixture should I get tomorrow? and which wattage of ceramic heat emitter should i get? i have 100 w so far, should I get 120/etc? I just want the tort to eat already....He arrived on feb 14 and hasn't eaten yet.... I've dipped him in warm water to saturate but otherwise no food.....how long can they go w out food?


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## EKLC (Feb 16, 2012)

Theres plenty of enclosure guides on this forum, you need to choose what works best with your setup. As I said, in a small glass enclosure a MVB will be way too hot. If you live somewhere warm, you may not need to worry about UVB. 

Picture of enclosure helps us


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## tooortoisetortoise (Feb 16, 2012)

uh lol I don't think its necessary to show the set up lol its simple.... just a 29 gallon fish tank the walls are about two feet tall or so and I have cypress mulch as substrate and a water dish for the tortoise and my lame ceramic heat emitter lamp pointing down and a towel covering up the open areas in hopes it will help heat some.....


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## EKLC (Feb 16, 2012)

Ok, personally I would recommend a basking spot bulb like this one





in 50 or 75 W (depending on how cold your room usually is and if you manage to close the top effectively)

I would use the UVB tube in the hood you bought, just keep an eye out for your tort developing sensitive eyes, and get real sunlight whenever its 70+ and sunny. 

CHE should work fine with some covering of the top

Also, keep looking around on this forum and learn as much as you can.


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## tooortoisetortoise (Feb 16, 2012)

thanks for your advice....and i do not have a tube fixture light in the hood.....i am pretty much left with a tank and no hood..


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## bikerchicspain (Feb 16, 2012)

Do not get the basking lamp, waste of time and money,it only gives heat and the light is not UV, also you cannot leave it 24/7.

Invest in a good MVB they give UV and heat off, the CHe are the best heat source.

Secondly do NOT cover with plastic first of its a fire hazard and secondly it can give off toxic fumes to your tort.

What I do which is tried and tested for a few years now is a sun screen for cars. It's foil so it's not flammable and doesn't give of toxic fumes, aswell as keeping the heat in it also reflects the heat back in.
when it gets really cold I cover the top and two sides with towels.

The problem that you will have is the humidity, RF need more humidity than most torts, otherwise they can get health issues and runny eyes.

You can get in touch with "Madkins007" he has alot of knowledge on Rf. just find him on the species section, under Redfoots. He will tell you everything you need to know..


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## lauren43201 (Feb 16, 2012)

Hello! I use the exact same light fixture with the dimmer and i use a 125 watt MVB. The MVB bulbs are more expensive (30-50 dollars) but it's worth it in the end. With the MVB bulb the dimmer on the light fixture doesn't work just so you know, and you have to keep it all the way on, the dimming portion doesn't work for MVB's. With the 125 watt bulb it keeps the warm end of the enclosure to about 95-100 degrees, and my tort loves it!


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## bikerchicspain (Feb 16, 2012)

The thing with basking bulbs is that if you leave them on its like you trying to sleep with the light on, it's permanent daylight, that why the ceramics are the perfect heat source, lots of heat and no light.
So the y can be left on all day and all night.


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## SulcataSquirt (Feb 17, 2012)

Yvonne has it right, dont waste your money on the reptile basking bulb, i suggest a Mvb, If you dont want to use that use the tube style florescent. A che is a really good source of heat for day and night, also they dont burn out fast light bulbs do, should last several years. if you need to up the temp even more you have choices of heat rope under the substrate, or just a normal flood light bulb or any normal incandescent light bulb will do for heat, those reptile bulbs are over priced and blow too often. also aluminum foil (the cooking kind) is a good for covering the top to hold in heat and humidity. Its cheap, replaceable and fire proof!


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## EKLC (Feb 17, 2012)

I recommended the basking light, since I thought he already bought a UVB tube. 

Plus a MVB will cook a 29 gallon aquarium, so OP will need to work around that or get a bigger enclosure (better).

Also, Yvonne, why do you say plastic gives off toxic fumes for a tort? If it's not burning I don't see why that's a problem.


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## tooortoisetortoise (Feb 17, 2012)

I went back to petsmart and got the right fixtures i desired and upped to a 150 w instead of 100w on the ceramic heat emitter and sigh.... it only brought me up to 79/80 F..... I want 90.....I got a UVA/UVB light too i plan to turn on in the day.... any ideas on raising the temp? I added water to the substrate in hopes of it helping.... ps. is there anyway to point the heat emitter lamp in the right direction? the box said you have to aim it right...? thanks

- Keri


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## bikerchicspain (Feb 17, 2012)

If plastic starts to melt which it would being on top of a heat source it will give of toxic fumes and that's if you are lucky.

Just aim it straight down the tort will find the warmest spot and bathe in it, don't fret to much, it's difficult to get the perfect temps, as long as they are active and eating.
They are ok.


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## Madkins007 (Feb 17, 2012)

I know this can seem like a lot of stuff to keep track of. Tortoises have a reputation of being easy pets, but for most of us, especially in the colder parts of the world, we have to learn how to manage heating, lighting, humidity, diet, etc. and it ain't easy.

It is even harder since there are no perfect answers- your location, the environment of the room, the type and size of enclosure, your budget, etc. all affect the bottom line.

If I were going to set up a 29 gallon tank, here is what I personally would do. it is not the cheapest way to do it, but it is easy to use when it is working.

1. Understand that the tort will outgrow this in a couple years, so think about how to transfer the stuff to future habitats. (For example, see the note about the domes in point #3a)

2. Use a medium-large ceramic heat emitter, mounted in a heat-resistant clamp-light socket purchased at a hardware store. Find a style with a wide-spread dome. Position it over the tank pointing straight down on one end to make a hot spot that is just under 90F most of the time. 

2.a. Clamp lights are notorious for failing at the worst time, so consider making a simple over-the-tank rack or other stand so the lamp can hang from it instead of trusting the clamps.

2.b. To control the heat, I would use a simple thermostatic controller. Zoo-med makes a fairly cheap one that works well enough. While not perfect, it makes things easier and safer.

3. Light and UVB the habitat with a 24" 5.0 (or lower UVB rating) long fluorescent light with a timer to run for about 6 hours in the middle of the day. 

3.a. I would also use a low-wattage standard incandescent bulb, or even a plain coiled fluorescent bulb, to provide a better white balance, and a 'dawn/dusk' by setting it to run for 12 hours a day and positioning it well above the tank to illuminate the whole thing easily. You can mount it in another dome clamp light if you want. I buy ALL of my clamp lights in the wide dome heat-resistant versions for safety and so I can use them however I want.

4. I would use about 2" or so of cypress mulch as a substrate, and fill it about 1" with warm water to generate humidity. I would also add live leafy plants, in their pots, for more humidity, looks, and hiding places.

5. If I still needed more heat (and here in Omaha, I do), I would add waterproof heat ropes in the substrate. These take a little finangling to do well, but gently warm the substrate to the mid 80's, and as a bonus- generate a lot of great humidity. You do need to add water daily to keep them wet so they work right.

6. Good hides and a big water dish would pretty much finish things up.

HOWEVER, there are many other ways to accomplish the same things, so don't be afraid to keep asking for ideas and advice!


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## judy wayte (Feb 17, 2012)

hi i have a red foot i use a mvb bulb and have a che i use a brooder fixture for both of them i have it so i can raise or lower them to adjust the temps. i also use plastic around and over the the whole enclosure to keep it humid.she lives in a rubber maid tub 50 gal. hope this helps.


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## bikerchicspain (Feb 17, 2012)

As I said befor madkins007 is the most experience in RFs ...


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