# Can I see how your hibernate your tortoises?



## wildchild6771 (Nov 4, 2012)

Hello all, 

I'm a first time owner of a beautiful 14 year old desert tortoise. I know hibernation is just around the corner and I want to make sure that I have the best conditions for my Ringo. 

Can you share photos of how your hibernate your tortoises? I want to keep him in the box but I'm not sure exactly how I should have it set up for him. 

He has started burrowing but I'm not comfortable letting him winter in it. One reason is that it isn't very deep (about 2 1/2 feet) and pretty close to the surface. I can very much see him. He's been sleeping there a few days because of the cold weather we've had. He does come out with the sun and eats. Is it okay that he's still eating now even though he has been on slow mode? 

I also have a 1 1/2 year old tortoise but she will stay warm with me indoors.

Any information would be helpful! I just love him so much and want him to have a safe winter.


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## Maggie Cummings (Nov 4, 2012)

I don't hibernate any of my animals, but I believe it's not a good thing to hibernate them with food in their gut, it rots like that and could be really bad news...


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## ascott (Nov 4, 2012)

I have the four here...they brumate each year that I have had them. I use to let them do their thing outside---until that spell where three years in a row here in the winter it rained so heavy and then had freezing temps to boot(courtesy of La Nina)..I had to pull them out during winter and finish their rest indoors...so last year and again this year, I will brumate them indoors in their boxes.

How was the tortoise housed during prior winters? Did he brumate on his own in generally the same weather conditions where he lives now? How long have you had him in your care?


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## wildchild6771 (Nov 4, 2012)

His previous owner kept him either under a bed or in a box in the garage. I've only had him since May and since I work outdoors and he stays there, I monitor him all day. 

It gets to be about 48 at night and recently about 75-80 degrees during the day. This week is supposed to be pretty warm so that's why I'm reluctant about not feeding him or putting him "away" for hibernation. He's looking pretty healthy but if I should stop feeding him I will.


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## ascott (Nov 4, 2012)

Is there anyway you can ask the prior owner to take a moment and show you exactly how they tucked him in for brumation? I mean that way you could replicate the hibernacle to the T...and tucking under the bed will work....my grandmother had an old CDT waaaaay back when I was a wee lass  that would each year march his butt straight into the bedroom and crawl under the bed and snug into the corner and stay put for a few months or so then would suddenly reappear when he wanted to go back out to the yard...very simple and very funny....

Now, personally I would not brumate a tort that I have had in my care for less than a full year (this is time that you will get to know your new friend--to figure out his norm and also to allow him to set up his new norm considering he has been relocated---this will also allow you to monitor how his transition to the new location goes) problem you will likely encounter is that he knows it is getting time to take the load off and head to rest---so keeping him up and active is going to be tough--especially since he is not indoor enclosure size--you know what I mean?

So I would strongly suggest you speak with the prior keeper and gain as much first hand knowledge of what they did that apparently worked fine for this tort....are you in the same climate/area as he lived in previously? so your temps and humidity and such will be the same?


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## wildchild6771 (Nov 4, 2012)

We live in the exact same city so the temperature/climate is the same. She's come in a few times to visit but when I asked her she made it sound like it was very simple and I shouldn't worry. I know someone else who lives in the same neighborhood that has a tortoise and he's already started his hibernation, but inside the living room. I would love to keep him indoors but I don't understand how they will go to sleep if the house will stay pretty warm. 

I feel like I know him pretty well. Since I've had him I constantly check in on him. Every hour or ever 15 minutes, I'm always with him. Even now that he mostly sleeps I will sit with him and just watch for a long time. My co-workers think I'm nuts but I can't help it. Even his previous owner has said I'm taking better care of him than she ever did. Maybe I'm over-protective! 

I'm just getting tired of the "stick him in a box" responses when I ask tortoise owners I encounter. I take it more seriously than that.


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## ascott (Nov 4, 2012)

Ok, so I happen to believe that it is a relatively basic thing to set them up for brumation....

If your tort is set on brumating then allow him to do so (this is my opinion and practice). I know that there are exact scientific jarg that folks go through in order to brumate a species that does it naturally...and I am sure in some climates those steps are ultra imperative...however, here you have a tort that is native to the state, use to the weather of the state (in general) and you have a tort that is proven successful in a moderate brumation set up, right?

I do the following for each of the CDTs here;

_stop offering supplemental food to them for at least two weeks prior to when I can make my best guess that they will come in for the winter_ (now, this can and is fluctuating this year already because of the FANTASTIC California weather and the absence of La Nina and El Nino--so far anyways-- this time last year, the CDTs here were already in their boxes on Nov 1)

_I will make sure that they have access to water in their yards_ in the event they want to take in some last minute drinks ---but if they are not plump and juicy looking to me before this time of year then that may be a sign of a prob and I would not support their brumation.

I have a tall sided rubbermaid tote for each of the guys, I have a converted garage that I can and do shut the one heater vent off to and so this allows that room temp to drop and the flooring in that room is concrete...I have a closet in the room that is large enough to place all four of the hibernacles into.

I fold a cotton towel or old flannel sheet a few times and place it on the concrete floor where I want to rest the rubbermaid tote...

I then place the tote in spot 

I then fold a white cotton towel (white is simply my choice--maybe you like green or another color ) several times to make a padded soft spot in the tote for the tort---

Then plop the tort in the tote 

I drape an old cotton tshirt over the tort in the event the little bugger feels like mucking about a bit to snug in and get comfy

I then gently close them into the closet for their rest...that is it.

After about a week to ten days I will sneak a quiet peek with my dull light thingy to assure that they are all still quiet and resting...at about a two week period from then on I will give a little foot tickle to each and be quiet and listen for their quick breath as a reaction to the tickle and as long as that breath is clear and not wet or raspy--then I quietly close the door and let them be until their next tickle...

that is essentially it...now, I do peek at their legs a little along with the skin on their neck to assure they don't look like any issues going on....and remember, if you suspect anything going awry then you absolutely can and should gently bring him out of his rest and gain a further and better look....

When it is time to awake you will hear the bugger romping about readily signaling he wants to get to gettin...


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## wildchild6771 (Nov 4, 2012)

Great information, thank you so much! The previous owner did tell me it was around Thanksgiving she would put him in a box so I guess just about now I should stop feeding him? It's just hard because he does seem to have an appetite on a warm day (which we are still getting). I may start putting him in his box before Thanksgiving as I will be out of town at that time and want to get it started for him. Or he'll be coming with me to Disneyland! 

Since I've only had him this year I don't really know how he looks "plump." He looks the same to me which is pretty healthy I suppose. 

I also haven't seen any feces lately which had me worried but today I noticed his hole he dug himself smelled like he had done it in there. I'm hoping cause if he hasn't then I'm calling a veterinarian.


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## ascott (Nov 4, 2012)

They will poo and pee right down in their hole....yup....do you soak your tort?


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## wildchild6771 (Nov 5, 2012)

He usually soaks himself but he hasn't lately. He only goes to one spot to bask in the sun and won't go anywhere else. So I should give him a good soaking before putting him in?


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## wildchild6771 (Nov 5, 2012)

So, I thought I'd share what Ringo has been up to the last few weeks. Let me explain that in the time I've had him he tried digging but got no where. We (a few men while I watched ) had to break through the very hard earth until we got to soft soil. We made him a nice little place for him to relax in, then Ringo took over. 

In these photos you can see the wide hole we made then what Ringo dug. This first photo doesn't show how deep he's dug (approx 2 FT I re-measured). He's just about coming out so he looks closer.







We have this side of a 24" box as a cover that's placed at an angle. You can also see the wall behind the fountain. It goes quite deep into the ground so he may also have hit his limit. He should be able to go to the side but don't know if he's figured that out yet. 






This is what it looks like when he's getting in with the cover removed. 






This is him fully inside, you can't tell because there's not light but if you're there in person you can still see him






I would love to let him do his thing but I'm afraid this is too shallow and not deep enough. Maybe if we added some modifications? I'm sort of in a hurry to decide what to do because Wednesday is our last warm day and after that the temps will drop into the 60s and 50s pretty fast. When we get days like this he will not come out of his burrow and I know it will be very hard to get him out and change locations (like in a box).

Any input is appreciated!


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## wildchild6771 (Nov 5, 2012)

*Can this work for hibernation?*

I've posted this already in another thread (sorry mods!) but I would really appreciate more eyes on this.

Basically, it's my first time hibernating my desert tortoise and I want to make sure I have the right conditions for him. The plan was to keep him in a box, but the last few weeks he's been working his little butt off on a burrow. Here's what I posted in the other thread:


So, I thought I'd share what Ringo has been up to the last few weeks. Let me explain that in the time I've had him he tried digging but got no where. We (a few men while I watched ) had to break through the very hard earth until we got to soft soil. We made him a nice little place for him to relax in, then Ringo took over. 

In these photos you can see the wide hole we made then what Ringo dug. This first photo doesn't show how deep he's dug (approx 2 FT I re-measured). He's just about coming out so he looks closer.






We have this side of a 24" box as a cover that's placed at an angle. You can also see the wall behind the fountain. It goes quite deep into the ground so he may also have hit his limit. He should be able to go to the side but don't know if he's figured that out yet. 






This is what it looks like when he's getting in with the cover removed. 






This is him fully inside, you can't tell because there's not light but if you're there in person you can still see him






I would love to let him do his thing but I'm afraid this is too shallow and not deep enough. Maybe if we added some modifications? I'm sort of in a hurry to decide what to do because Wednesday is our last warm day and after that the temps will drop into the 60s/50s during the day and 40s/30s at night pretty fast. When we get days like this he will not come out of his burrow and I know it will be very hard to get him out and change locations (like in a box).

Any input is appreciated

Read more: http://www.tortoiseforum.org/thread-58963.html#ixzz2BPp8HV2J


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## ascott (Nov 5, 2012)

*RE: Can this work for hibernation?*

From the pics, my concern would be the way the angle of the cover looks???? It appears that it is angled/slanted towards that brick wall/block structure....if so then when it rains the water will roll down that wood right into his starter burrow...this would worry me due to wet and cold...perhaps the angle simply appears that way to me in the pic>>>>>?


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## wildchild6771 (Nov 6, 2012)

*RE: Can this work for hibernation?*

It's the opposite of what you're saying. When it rains it would roll back. There was actually another board on top of it that wouldn't absorb water(put on for that reason when we did get rain a while back) but it was so ugly for the pics I took it off. I can easily install it or but a tarp on. We can also make him another cover if it's necessary. Maybe with some sort of insulation? 

My main concern is whether or not 2FT will be enough for him to be comfortable. 

Thanks ascott for all of your input!


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## Yvonne G (Nov 6, 2012)

*RE: Can this work for hibernation?*

Hi wildchild6771:

Unless you live in the Mojave or Sonora deserts area, you should NOT allow your desert tortoise to hibernate outside. We get too much rain for this to be safe for the tortoise. If he's sitting in a burrow that gets wet, even if its NOT standing water, he will get sick and might die. Osmosis will happen. That is to say, if the dirt outside the burrow is wet, the dirt inside the burrow will eventually also be wet because it will absorb the water from outside the burrow. Placing a tarp over him will not help, and will cause a greenhouse-like effect that wouldn't be good.

Once your tortoise stops coming out to sun himself, you can box him up in a cardboard box stuffed with shredded newspaper and place the box either in a back bedroom closet or on a shelf in the garage. He needs to be dry and in an area where the temp is at least 40 but not above 50. Also, if you place him in the garage, don't run your car in there to warm it up, as the fumes won't do the tortoise any good.

I'm sorry you don't like the "put him in a box" response, but I believe this is the safest method for allowing your tortoise to brumate. He can be kept dry (most important) and safe. 

Angela touched on a very important point. If the tortoise is new to you, it would be best to keep him awake in an indoor habitat for this first winter with you.


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## wildchild6771 (Nov 6, 2012)

You live near I do. Do you agree Wednesday is my last chance of this? It's still going to be in the 80's then Thursday it will drop into the 60s and after that it will keep dropping. He won't come out that day I know him, so I'm thinking Wednesday when it is nice and sunny I will have to get him and put him in a box. I don't think he'll be too happy about it. That's another thing, he doesn't actually live with me. He lives at my work. I'm more comfortable keeping him at home just because the only building we have at work practically turns into a refrigerator in the winter. That's during the day I'd hate to know what it feels like at night. 

i really don't have the means to keep awake him inside, unless I really have to. He's new to me but I feel like he trusts me. When I say that I'm constantly with him I'm not joking. Isn't it also bad to stop him in his process? Since he has been slowing down on everything?


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## Yvonne G (Nov 6, 2012)

If you live in my area, then you can do what I do. Just let him be. He'll come out and sit in the sun then go back in his house. When the time comes that he doesn't come out, that's when its time to box him up. If you wait until that time, that is, the time that HE has chosen to stay put, then he won't be unhappy being boxed up.

Its supposed to get pretty cold here tomorrow...almost a 30 degree difference in day time temps. So I'm betting that we won't see much of our desert tortoises after today. It won't hurt him to be cold inside his little house for a day or two. I'm probably going to wait until this week-end to box mine up.


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## wildchild6771 (Nov 6, 2012)

I'm in Visalia so yep, I know about that temperature drop. So it won't bother him if I basically drag him out of his burrow when it's time? I'm comfortable leaving him in there for a few days, it's not going to get THAT cold. Tomorrow it's going to be 82 then 65 on Thursday. He's still working on it as we speak.

I really appreciate your help. Do you ever go to the CTTC meetings in Fresno? Thought about going this week with my many questions.


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## Yvonne G (Nov 6, 2012)

Many years ago I got together with a group of other tortoise people and started the Cen-Val chapter of CTTC right here in my living room. We grew and grew and eventually had over a hundred members. We had shows and gave talks and were a very active chapter. However, all of the work involved in keeping a chapter going was left to me and one of my closest friends. Everyone had ideas on how it should be run, but no one wanted to help me. After several years of doing it all myself, I eventually got burned out and quit the club. I have never gone back. I just run a rescue now, all by myself, and am happy doing it all alone!

I think going to a club of like-minded members is a great way to learn more about your tortoise, and its a lot of fun to talk to other tortoise people. You really should go. The Del Mar School is not to far off the Ashlan Av, Hwy 41 freeway exit. I think you would enjoy yourself.


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## wildchild6771 (Nov 6, 2012)

Wow, interesting! That's amazing you have a rescue. Great to hear there's someone local caring for so many tortoises.


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