# What does LTC mean, and how L is LT?



## Kapidolo Farms (Oct 29, 2015)

Yeah LTC means 'Long Term Captive'. But how would you quantify long? 

I have seen ever and ever shorter periods of time with the context of the claim LTC. It used to mean many years and recently in at least one ad for pancakes on Fauna, the person had the animals for less than a week, and long term was used to describe them. I don't suppose there will ever be any kind of oversight in the pet trade for something like this. I press for specifics when I buy. I just can't ignore that it is used to hype a sale, when it's a claim not worth feces.

Will's gripe for the day, that will be all.


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## dmmj (Oct 29, 2015)

I consider long term anything more than 2 or 3 years imported. a week though that's funny


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## Yvonne G (Oct 29, 2015)

Will: The Fauna person may have only had the tortoise for a week or two, but might have bought them from the guy who had them for several years.

I consider anything over 3 years to be long term.


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## wellington (Oct 29, 2015)

I have never known how many years it was suppose to be. However, when I have seen those ads, I took it the way Yvonne explained it.
My personal opinion, it should mean at least long enough that a second generation is on the ground (hatched) and are adults. To me, that's long term and at least one total generation away from being wild.


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## jaizei (Oct 29, 2015)

I think at least 5+ years for LTC.


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## Kapidolo Farms (Oct 29, 2015)

Wow @wellington I can't say anything other than that would be a great criteria. But that slides us into how far removed from founders or wild caught the animal is, if I understand you correctly. Multi-generation in captivity is long term for a line of animals, a desirable goal.

If an animal transfers from one person to another, the care chain is broken, the animal may have done well in the past keeper's care and now does the same, better, or worse. If that it was in one persons collection then went to another with a reliable history, and all that was disclosed, well then the concern I have becomes moot. 

If the animal has a blind transfer, the current seller does not KNOW the care the animal had, they are just taking it on the word of the past seller, that seems weaker to me. And if wild caught or a complete blind history, well then while in your care alone would be a reasonable albeit conservative use of termed care, then if stated with months or years that would be wholly honest.

However as an unofficial slang, to me I agree 100% with @jaizei LTC implies many years in your care alone. In five years you will know the tortoise as an individual, not a member of a species or a biotype animal (forest tortoise for example), you will know the individual. 

Cool.


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## wellington (Oct 29, 2015)

Long Term Captive does not pertain to or tell you anything except that, it's WC but has been in captivity for a period of time. If there is a standard and everyone used the term LTC properly, then you would know at least the minimum it has not been in the wild. 
LTC does not tell me anything else about the tortoise, no matter who is using the terms, the first owner or the fifth owner. It tells me nothing about its condition or care practices it has been kept in. That's a completely different pony.


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## TylerStewart (Nov 10, 2015)

Late to the thread but wanted to comment, it may kinda depend on the species you're referring to, to a degree.... If it's a species that's known to crash quickly in captivity, being in captivity 6 months would sound pretty good (flapneck chameleon, for example, or hingeback tortoise, in my experience, would be a good one if it wasn't dead within a month of importation). 

On a species like a Russian tortoise, as many as I have bought from imports and from other people, I think I'm more confident in a fresh import anymore than I am buying 'random Russian' from 'random citizen.' Too many don't get good care in captivity, certainly there's more shell deformities in the average captive bred tortoise than in the average wild caught. It's a little off topic, but we have essentially zero losses with imported Russians (or farmed hermanns) if we can get them before they've deteriorated at an importer's place. I have higher losses, more social problems and a wider variety of parasites/illnesses/diseases in the ones I buy from other people as LTC or CB young adults/adults.


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