# I need help!



## caits1300 (Mar 26, 2014)

(Note from moderator Yvonne: I've combined all of Cait's threads into this one because basically she's wanting to know the size of different mediterranean species. In order to not duplicate the answers any more than we already have, I've merged the threads.)



Hi,I'm looking to buy a tortoise. I live in the uk and it's quite cool,I would like a tortoise breed that stays relatively small but can survive in are type of weather.If you could name some breeds it would be really helpful!


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## Yvonne G (Mar 26, 2014)

The most common tortoises kept in the UK are the Mediterranean species - Greek, Hermann and Horsefield.


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## caits1300 (Mar 26, 2014)

*Which is smaller when full grown?*

Hey, I was just wondering which is the smallest when they're fully grown the horsefield tortoise or the herman tortoise.Would be VERY greatful for any help and advice!


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## Tom (Mar 26, 2014)

*RE: Which is better?*

Russians are smaller than Eastern Hermanns, which are the type we normally see. If you are somehow able to obtain a Western Hermanns, they are often closer in size to a russian.

Why do you ask? Both of the above species still need very large enclosures with lots of room to move.


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## caits1300 (Mar 26, 2014)

*Which is better?*

Thanks so do you know how big Russians are fully grown? Sorry to ask...


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## caits1300 (Mar 26, 2014)

*This may be a silly question*

Right..I might sound a right dafty asking this but.... Is a horsefield tortoise another way of saying a Russian tortoise?
And this is another question how big do the Greek tortoises grow to?


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## caits1300 (Mar 26, 2014)

*HELP!! I NEED THE TRUTH!!*

Basically I need to know the truth! I've been looking on lots of different websites and they've gave me all different answers! So here's the big question....how big is the Greek tortoise fully grown???? I will really REALLY really appreciate this information! Any owners let me know or anyone with reliable information! Thanks!


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## caits1300 (Mar 26, 2014)

*How big do Greek tortoises get?*

I've been looking all over the internet to find this info out and I've got so many different answers.
So please can anyone answer my question how big is a Greek tortoise fully grown? Please any owners or anyone with reliable
Information please help.REALLY REALLY will appreciate it! Thanks


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## Whitneyrae (Mar 26, 2014)

*RE: Which is better?*

females are between 8-10 inches and males are between 6-8 inches. From what I've read so far both of them need very large enclosures, with their tanks being at least 55 gallons at a minimum, I made the mistake of getting too small of an enclosure and ended up wasting $250, so just make sure you have the right stuff to start with, it will save you time, money, and your tortoise some stress. I hope this helps.


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## prc93 (Mar 26, 2014)

*RE: HELP!!!*

Typically 5-8", but this varies across the different subspecies. I have an adult male Ibera that is about 7.5", I believe 7-8" is most common. However, females tend to get a little larger than males and I think there are some up to 11" out there.


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## HJ1983 (Mar 26, 2014)

*HELP!! I NEED THE TRUTH!!*

Did you look on this website? Here's a screenshot of the Greek tortoise care sheet here on the forum.



And here is the link to the care sheet. 

http://www.tortoiseforum.org/showthread.php?tid=87146

I hope this answered your question. 

Good luck!

By the way your subject line is misleading. I thought you had an emergency.


And the information here is 100% reliable.


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## HJ1983 (Mar 26, 2014)

*This may be a silly question*

Horsfield = Russian. [SMILING FACE WITH OPEN MOUTH]


Check out the link for Greek info. 

http://www.tortoiseforum.org/showthread.php?tid=87146


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## tortadise (Mar 26, 2014)

*RE: HELP!! I NEED THE TRUTH!!*

It depends on sub species and localties. Ibera can get rather large. Greaca terredtrius can get large too. Some of the 30 plus(or so I believe) subspecies all vary in size. Your looking between 9-13" pending on male or female and sub species.


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## Yvonne G (Mar 26, 2014)

*RE: How big do Greek tortoises get?*

Hi Cait:

There's really no reason for you to name every thread you start "Help!" If you'll just put a bit about what you're thread is about, you'll get just as many good answers as you do with "help", which I normally change anyway. And, if you'll notice, I've merged the two threads you asked the same question in into one thread.


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## caits1300 (Mar 27, 2014)

*This may be a silly question*

Thank you!!!


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## caits1300 (Mar 27, 2014)

*Which is better?*

Gallons??


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## caits1300 (Mar 27, 2014)

*How big do Greek tortoises get?*

Ok thanks most of this was helpful,do you know how big golden Greek torts get?


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## caits1300 (Mar 27, 2014)

*Still confused about sizes of Mediterranean tortoises*

Right,I've asked quite a few questions on this and still a bit unsure which tort to get...
Are golden Greek torts the same size as Russian or Hermans fully grown?and how big do they all get?..


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## bouaboua (Mar 27, 2014)

*RE: Which is better?*



caits1300 said:


> Gallons??



That or 3' x 6 ' or 100CM X 200 CM enclosure at lease for Hermann or Russians. That is for one tortoise. if you like to have a pair, you need at lease 4' X 8' enclosure.


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## kimber_lee_314 (Mar 27, 2014)

*RE: Still confused?*

It kind of depends. I have some Russian females that are bigger than the female Golden greeks (or about the same size.) I have some very small male Russians that are definitely smaller than the male golden greeks. In general they are about the same size (same as Hermann's.)


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## bouaboua (Mar 27, 2014)

*RE: Still confused?*

They will get about 8~10 inches at full grown. Individual case may very.


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## Yvonne G (Mar 27, 2014)

*RE: Which is better?*



caits1300 said:


> Gallons??



You can't really go by "gallons" when sizing enclosures for tortoises because "gallons" includes the sides and how deep the container is. You want a large floor space, not deep sides. Whitney was just trying to give you an idea of a size.


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## Tom (Mar 27, 2014)

*RE: Which is smaller when full grown?*

And a 55 gallon is WAY too small for anything other than a hatchling russian or hermanns too.


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## Tom (Mar 27, 2014)

*RE: Still confused?*

I still haven't seen the reason why this matters to you...
If we knew why your were asking, we might be better able to help you.

All of those are similarly sized as adults. Females get a little larger than males, Eastern hermanns get a little larger than the two others, and there is some typical variation in size amongst individual tortoises of all three species.

All of these species are within a few inches of each other as adults. For example a small male russian might be 6", while a large female hermanni might reach 10". All of them are somewhere in that range, and all of them have similar housing requirements.


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## Saleama (Mar 27, 2014)

*RE: Which is smaller when full grown?*

Many people get an animal and like smaller ones because of the "cuter" aspect or bigger ones because, well, bigger is better. It isn't always an issue with how to house them. caits1300 never indicated that housing was the issue here. caits1300, in case housing wasn't your point, I would like to chime in. Size in tortoises is very much like that of humans and any other animal. There is a great variance among even the same bread or species. I have 4 russians and they range from 5" to 7". The one that is 7" was actually the second smallest going into the winter and she has sprouted and gained almost 2" on the others. If housing is not your concern, you should really be asking about personalities and care.


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## Saleama (Mar 27, 2014)

*RE: Still confused?*



Tom said:


> I still haven't seen the reason why this matters to you...
> 
> All of those are similarly sized as adults. Females get a little larger than males, Eastern hermanns get a little larger than the two others, and there is some typical variation in size amongst individual tortoises.
> 
> All of these species are within a few inches of each other as adults. For example a small male russian might be 6", while a large female hermanni might reach 10". All of them are somewhere in that range, and all of them have similar housing requirements.



I asked in the other topic as well. You really need to tell us why you are concerned with the size of the tort because there are many reasons beyond size to choose different tortoises or even box turtles.


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## tortadise (Mar 27, 2014)

*RE: Still confused about sizes of Mediterranean tortoises*

OK here we go as simple as possible.

I'm going to do average because males and females differ.

GREEK (includes golden,syrian,buxtoni,iraqi,tunisian etc)7-13+"
EASTERN HERMANN 7-11+"
WESTERN HERMANN 6-9+"
MARGINATED 10-16+"
RUSSIAN 7-10+"


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## caits1300 (Mar 27, 2014)

*Still confused about sizes of Mediterranean tortoises*

I asked because I would like a small tortoise so males are smaller than females and Russian torts are the smallest is this correct?


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## caits1300 (Mar 27, 2014)

*Which is smaller when full grown?*

Ok thanks guys I don't really see why you have to make it so complicated and have go....I just wanted an answer not a telling off.


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## WillTort2 (Mar 27, 2014)

*RE: Which is smaller when full grown?*

Hi Caits,

I don't think anyone intended to tell you off!  Just keep in mind, most of the forum members are very passionate regarding the proper care of torts. They don't always agree, but generally they do speak from their love of torts.

Good luck.


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## mike taylor (Mar 27, 2014)

*RE: Still confused about sizes of Mediterranean tortoises*

Yes but they love to walk around . Just because they stay small doesn't mean they don't need a big enclosure . Have you checked out box turtles? They are small with an outgoing personality.


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## caits1300 (Mar 27, 2014)

*Still confused about sizes of Mediterranean tortoises*

Ummmm no do they live in water though?


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## caits1300 (Mar 27, 2014)

*Which is smaller when full grown?*

Thanks,I just want to find the right tortoise if you get me! Do you have any idea about the sizes of the Greek tortoises?


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## Saleama (Mar 27, 2014)

*RE: Which is smaller when full grown?*



caits1300 said:


> Ok thanks guys I don't really see why you have to make it so complicated and have go....I just wanted an answer not a telling off.



You got several answers on both of your threads. What people are trying to tell you is that the SIZE of the full grown tort is not always the best way to determine which you should get. There is more to their care than the size they will end up at. A 5 inch male russian will need the same sized enclosure as an 11 inch female Hermann's. 

They have different needs and different personalities that make them appropriate for different people. Your continuing to ask the same question in response to questions asked to you is not going to help you in your search, and we are trying to tell/ask you the correct things in order to HELP you, not to tell you off. If you do not want to answer the questions or accept this advice or believe it to be valid then there is nothing more anyone here can help you with. You have your size chart made available to you in the other thread. Please use that information and the answers to the questions you have been asked to determine which would be best for you. That way, you can make the best choice and get the right animal for you. If you want small, get a male russian or an ornate or three toed box turtle would be my advice. A female of any species of the smaller torts/turtles will tend to be larger but that is not always going to be the case. If you want exactly how big each get that information is not available. It can be different for each animal. I have seen male russians around 4.5 inches and full grown and I once saw a 12 inch russian female that the person swore was only 4 years old. See what I mean?


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## caits1300 (Mar 27, 2014)

*Which is smaller when full grown?*

Thanks all I'm saying is I want a small tortoise and sorry to bother you all but you've probably answered this in my last question but how big does a golden Greek male get fully grown.


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## dds7155 (Mar 27, 2014)

*RE: Which is smaller when full grown?*

go to tortoisesupply.com and click on tortoise's for sale ,, Tyler has everything you asking there , also a Great place to buy your tortoise ,i'm sure he will tell you what you need ,, good luck


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## Team Gomberg (Mar 27, 2014)

*RE: Which is smaller when full grown?*

Have you considered buying an adult tortoise? Then you'll know EXACTLY how big it will get because it will be full grown...


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## caits1300 (Mar 27, 2014)

*Which is smaller when full grown?*

No because I don't want an adult one..awks..


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## Pokeymeg (Mar 27, 2014)

*Re: RE: Still confused about sizes of Mediterranean tortoises*



caits1300 said:


> I asked because I would like a small tortoise so males are smaller than females and Russian torts are the smallest is this correct?



Males tend to be smaller, yes. I have a make Dalmatian hermann tortoise, who I bought as an adult, that is only 5.5 inches. Pretty small, but still needs a big enclosure (in case that's why you're thinking about getting a smaller tortoise). I admit that's why I originally looked at Mediterranean tortoises, and then I fell in love with the Hermann tortoise for their color and personality!


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## Pokeymeg (Mar 27, 2014)

*Re: RE: How big do Greek tortoises get?*



caits1300 said:


> Ok thanks most of this was helpful,do you know how big golden Greek torts get?



Wow, you have quite a few threads about size..... To over-generalize, the majority of Mediterranean tortoises fall into the 6-12" range. Size will vary by species, sub species, sex, environment, genetics, etc. No one can give you a definitive cut off size to any particular type of tortoise. Each type has examples of exceptionally small and large individuals. If you are that concerned about size, purchasing an adult would be a worthwhile investment.


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## Tom (Mar 27, 2014)

*RE: Which is smaller when full grown?*

Who told you off? Did I miss something?

Full grown Greeks are similar in size to russians. Around 6-9" generally.


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## Saleama (Mar 27, 2014)

*RE: Which is smaller when full grown?*



caits1300 said:


> Thanks all I'm saying is I want a small tortoise and sorry to bother you all but you've probably answered this in my last question but how big does a golden Greek male get fully grown.



LOL. Its no bother. I'm just concerned that you are trying to chose an animal based on it's size. All of these types are similar in size by a few inches. Your choice should be based on many more variables than size. For instance, none of these would do well in even a large fish tank, however, a baby box turtle could possibly live in a medium sized fish tank for several years as the grow much slower.


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## T33's Torts (Mar 27, 2014)

*Re: RE: Still confused about sizes of Mediterranean tortoises*



caits1300 said:


> Ummmm no do they live in water though?



No.


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## Whitneyrae (Mar 28, 2014)

*RE: Which is smaller when full grown?*

I feel like you are just wanting a tiny, cute little tortoise and when it grows up you will lose interest and give it away, there is no such thing as a tiny tortoise, they all get big and they all need very large enclosures. Your best bet is to listen to the people on this forum, I have learned so much from them and if you just listen and take their advice I promise it will save you time, money, and your tortoise will get the best care possible.


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## caits1300 (Mar 28, 2014)

*Which is smaller when full grown?*

Yes I don't want a big tortoise.i want a small one.


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## Whitneyrae (Mar 28, 2014)

*RE: Which is smaller when full grown?*



caits1300 said:


> Yes I don't want a big tortoise.i want a small one.



There is no such thing, if you want that small of an animal maybe you should consider getting a hermit crab, tortoises get big, they're a lot of work but all the time and work is worth it.


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## caits1300 (Mar 28, 2014)

*Which is smaller when full grown?*

Russians ones aren't that big neither Hermans or Greeks


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## caits1300 (Mar 28, 2014)

*Bye*

I'm leaving I've got no info just arguments out of this.i got no answers just moans.bye all.


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## Elohi (Mar 28, 2014)

A hair flip on a tortoise forum? I've seen it all at this point. Yup. 


Elohi(Earth)[TURTLE]


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## Yvonne G (Mar 28, 2014)

Well, you do what you have to do, but you actually did get the answers to your questions, you just didn't pay attention, or else instead of the true answer, like what we gave you, you were wanting someone to tell you that yes, what YOU thought was the correct answer. Go back to Tortadise's response. He's listed all the tortoises and their full grown sizes for you. But I guess you didn't see that, because we didn't give you any answers.

(hair flip - LOL!!)


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## Whitneyrae (Mar 28, 2014)

caits1300 said:


> I'm leaving I've got no info just arguments out of this.i got no answers just moans.bye all.



This makes me mad! The great people on this forum don't deserve this kind of crap! Every question I've ever had has gotten immediate and accurate answers, without this forum I would be so lost and I've become very grateful for you all....Even if this girl doesn't appreciate you, I sure do!


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## Yvonne G (Mar 28, 2014)

Don't let it upset you. She was probably just trolling.

(Forum troll: In Internet slang, a troll (/ËˆtroÊŠl/, /ËˆtrÉ’l/) is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people, by posting inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a forum, chat room, or blog), either accidentally or with the deliberate intent of provoking readers into an emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.)


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## Whitneyrae (Mar 28, 2014)

Ha I like that description! Trolling


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## jaredherman (Mar 28, 2014)

Hahaha she sounded like a little kid that would probably do nothing but torture a poor tortoise.


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## Whitneyrae (Mar 28, 2014)

I sent her that in a private message.... not those words exactly but the same message nonetheless, she tried telling me that Russian torts stay super tiny (like 3-4 inches) and I was like "excuse me lady...I have a Russian tort and she is already bigger than that!"


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