# Need advice on Texas Tortoise



## Dee (Sep 6, 2011)

I have what I believe is a Texas Tortoise that lives in my backyard. He has been there since the previous owners. I really like him a great deal and believe he was a pet that was abandoned when the previous owners left. I want to take him to see a veterinarian in San Antonio, but the lady at the clinic told me that if he is a Texas Tortoise they may have to confiscate him and call a wildlife sanctuary. Can they do that? I am willing to pay whatever vet bills there are and let him live comfortably in my backyard. I give him calcium supplements and what has been advised by the Wildlife Rescue and Rehabilitation organization in Kendalia, TX. Understanding that he may outlive me, I am training my sons to take care of him when I am gone, and have already made arrangements to take him to the Wildlife Rescue and Rehabilitation organization if there is no alternative and I can no longer take care of him. Can he be confiscated? I need some good advice regarding this. Thanks![/size][/font]


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## Shelly (Sep 6, 2011)

Why are you taking him to a vet?


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## dmarcus (Sep 6, 2011)

Helo and welcome to the forum. Do you have any photo's to confirm that it is a texas tort?


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## dmmj (Sep 6, 2011)

I have to also ask why are you taking him to a vet? do you see any problems with him?
I have to say most vets I know do not confiscate animals, I don't even think they have the legal ability to do so. Most vets won't turn you in unless it is considered a dangerous animal. You could call around a couple of vets and ask them a hypothetical question.


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## Yvonne G (Sep 6, 2011)

Hi Dee:

Welcome to the Tortoise Forum!!

This is all I could find:

"REGULATIONS
TPWD regulations prohibit the taking, possession, 
transportation, or sale of any of the animal species 
designated by state law as endangered or threatened *without 
the issuance of a permit.* State laws and regulations 
prohibit commerce in threatened and endangered plants and 
the collection of listed plant species from public land 
*without a permit issued by TPWD*. In addition, some 
species listed as threatened or endangered under state law 
are also listed under federal regulations. These animals are 
provided additional protection by the U.S. Fish and 
Wildlife Service."

I interpret this to mean that you would have to apply for a permit to keep your tortoise. So call the Texas Parks and Wildlife Department and ask if you can apply for a permit to be able to keep a Texas Tortoise that lives and has lived for a long time, on your property. If you're worried about making the call, then call anonymously from a pay phone. I'm in California and our rules are probably different from those in Texas, but I'm leaning towards its probably ok for you to have the tortoise if you apply for a permit.


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## Jacqui (Sep 7, 2011)

Keep us informed what they say, but like Yvonne I can see no reason they would not allow it to stay where it is.


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## DixieParadise (Sep 7, 2011)

Living in Texas, I agree with Yvonne and those who have answered. If it is not sick or looking like it in danger, wjy are you taking it to a vet? 

Taking and posting a picture will help to properly id your Tortoise or Turtle.... Then you will get better advice on how to care and maintain your pet.


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## ascott (Sep 7, 2011)

Yup....would also want to know why a vet trip....if he has been doing fine...let em do what he does and enjoy him  (in my opinion)


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## LuvmyGreenSon (Feb 13, 2012)

Dee,

I too am in the same predicament. I believe I have a Texas tort too and I too live in San Antonio. I want to take my little guy to the vet because his previous home did not care for him very well and I want the vet to just check him over to ease my mind. 

Any who, I am worried about the permit I may need as well. So if you do call Texas wildlife I'd like to know what they have to say so keep me posted!


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## jaizei (Feb 13, 2012)

The chance that you will be able to get a permit to keep this tortoise essentially as a pet is probably close to zero. They cannot be taken from the wild. The best thing to do would be to contact TPWD so they can relocate the animal.

title 31, part 2, chapter 65, subchapter G, rule Â§65.171:


> (a) The provisions of this subchapter apply to any species of wildlife listed in this state as threatened or endangered, living or dead, including parts.
> 
> (b) Except as otherwise provided in this subchapter or Parks and Wildlife Code, Chapters 67 or 68, no person may:
> 
> ...


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## ascott (Feb 13, 2012)

Although you must keep in mind.....you do not know for sure what type of tortoise you have....right. so it could be a Russian...coach....or a multitude of other species...are you a certified tortoise expert? A biologist with emphasize on reptile and further focus in tortoise specifically....well if not...then you have no way of knowing without a doubt what you have...therefore no reason to freak out....a tortoise left behind has likely been there tons of years and you have been given a chance to enjoy its presence and can offer a hand if needed....if you have a small tortoise that you don't know for sure 100% of its species...then let it go...enjoy the little bugger ...no need to freak out...tortoise species are mistaken for others all of the time.....

Sometimes like when someone would say to me when I sold homeowners insurance...well I have a dog but it is a mutt...kinda looks like it has some pit bull mixed in..I would always say..what else does it look like it is mixed with...they may say shepherd ...lab....collie...so it would be listed as a shepherd ....or lab..or collie mix.....there is no way to know exact species  but only guesses....in my opinion anyways....


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## jaizei (Feb 13, 2012)

Ignorance, or feigned ignorance, is not an excuse. 

You should do the right thing, and then buy a tortoise that you can enjoy without worrying about it being confiscated.


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## ascott (Feb 13, 2012)

> Ignorance, or_ feigned_ ignorance, is not an excuse.
> 
> You should do the right thing, and then buy a tortoise that you can enjoy without worrying about it being confiscated.



Jaizei, So it is better to displace a tortoise that has been fine for years-- you would suggest an already abandoned tortoise be ripped from where it has lived and turn it over to the authorities...Okay, if you say so?????

Very contrary to what you expressed here, huh? I feel a re-run coming on here....I will not be participating any further in this thread.

http://www.tortoiseforum.org/Thread-Who-Keeps-These-People-In-Check#axzz1mKHgwFxh

I do wish Dee and Luvmygreenson tortoise the best with whatever you all decide to do 

Also, there are great folks here on this forum that will offer up their awesome opinions and advice along with the ones that already have....


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## kimber_lee_314 (Feb 13, 2012)

jaizei said:


> Ignorance, or feigned ignorance, is not an excuse.
> 
> You should do the right thing, and then buy a tortoise that you can enjoy without worrying about it being confiscated.



I agree, this is kind of harsh! This person is reaching out for help - that is what this forum is for - calling them ignorant isn't helpful. 

Here in So Cal, we are allowed to have Texas torts with permits. I have three of them myself. If you have a long term captive it could be disastrous to release him back into the wild. Maybe try contacting the Gulf Coast Turtle and Tortoise Society (http://www.gctts.org) I'm sure they can help point you in the right direction. Good luck!


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## jaizei (Feb 14, 2012)

kimber_lee_314 said:


> jaizei said:
> 
> 
> > Ignorance, or feigned ignorance, is not an excuse.
> ...



That was not directed at the op, but rather at Angela's advice of playing stupid about not knowing what species of tortoise it is. 

I'll respond to Angelas trolling later.


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## ripper7777777 (Feb 14, 2012)

Well I think the op was probably scared off. It sounds like quite an issue, I would check with TWPD, your local vet and GCTT, but I wouldn't give them all your details. I agree with ascott on this one, if the animal has lived there for years and is healthy moving them won't help anything.

Personally I think restricting the pet trade and private owners never helps the situation, not allowing wild capture and habitat destruction are the best. But those already in captivity should be licensed and become captive breeders for the pet trade as a worst case scenario, I am one of those that believes captive pet species are better than total extinction.


and if it is confiscated it will just go to another captive home, it won't be released.


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## jaizei (Feb 15, 2012)

ascott said:


> > Ignorance, or_ feigned_ ignorance, is not an excuse.
> >
> > You should do the right thing, and then buy a tortoise that you can enjoy without worrying about it being confiscated.
> 
> ...


Since you are finished here, I guess this will be a monologue. Unless that incessant urge you have overcomes your self control.

I actually see no contradiction. The other thread was concerning the FDA, whose objective is public safety/health and the removal of contraband turtles from the marketplace, whose regulations clearly call for the destruction of seized animals (possible exceptions noted). This thread is concerning TPWD, whose objective (in this case) would be protection of a threatened species. I am not aware of anywhere in their regulations, or in the TAC, that call for the destruction of a healthy animal taken by them. I am only familiar with a single instance of a tortoise being euthanized after being turned over to them, and that was only because it was seriously injured and probably would not have lived. 'Pet' tortoises handed over to them are placed with an organization holding a science/education/zoo permit or with a wildlife rehab. Wild animals living in unsuitable areas (urban/suburban) can be relocated. 

The OP wants to keep it as a pet. If it is a Texas Tortoise, then it is not legal to keep this tortoise as a pet. Sorry, this fact has nothing to do with me and whether I think it is ok or not. 

It may be healthy now, but what about later? What to do if it becomes sick or injured 5 years down the road? Kinda hard to take your illegal tortoise to the vet.


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## exoticsdr (Feb 15, 2012)

Have been trying to stay away from this thread to not seem like a bad guy, BUT if she was to bring the tortoise to me, I would be obligated, by law, to confiscate the animal and call Texas Parks and Wildlife, whom would either instruct me on how to release the animal or instruct me to keep the animal until it could be placed with a licensed facility. It happens all the time, especially with raptors (federal law) and wildlife like skunks and raccoons (that also cannot be legally owned because of state rabies concerns). The law is the law, if you don't like it...please help to get it changed, but pretending not to know is beneath everyone on this forum. Doc


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## Terry Allan Hall (Feb 15, 2012)

ripper7777777 said:


> Well I think the op was probably scared off. It sounds like quite an issue, I would check with TWPD, your local vet and GCTT, but I wouldn't give them all your details. I agree with ascott on this one, if the animal has lived there for years and is healthy moving them won't help anything.
> 
> Personally I think restricting the pet trade and private owners never helps the situation, not allowing wild capture and habitat destruction are the best. But those already in captivity should be licensed and become captive breeders for the pet trade as a worst case scenario, I am one of those that believes captive pet species are better than total extinction.
> 
> ...



Sadly, most likely it'll be euthanized, as it cannot be released back into the wild (a good friend works for TP&W, and hates this aspect of her job)...this is Texas we're talking about, not a civilized country.


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## ripper7777777 (Feb 15, 2012)

exoticsdr said:


> Have been trying to stay away from this thread to not seem like a bad guy, BUT if she was to bring the tortoise to me, I would be obligated, by law, to confiscate the animal and call Texas Parks and Wildlife, whom would either instruct me on how to release the animal or instruct me to keep the animal until it could be placed with a licensed facility. It happens all the time, especially with raptors (federal law) and wildlife like skunks and raccoons (that also cannot be legally owned because of state rabies concerns). The law is the law, if you don't like it...please help to get it changed, but pretending not to know is beneath everyone on this forum. Doc




Nobody blames the vets, you have to follow the law, you really have no choice.



Terry Allan Hall said:


> ripper7777777 said:
> 
> 
> > Well I think the op was probably scared off. It sounds like quite an issue, I would check with TWPD, your local vet and GCTT, but I wouldn't give them all your details. I agree with ascott on this one, if the animal has lived there for years and is healthy moving them won't help anything.
> ...




Yea I assumed that, but don't know the exact policy in this case, so didn't want to say it, but it is down right stupid how some of the laws protecting animals gets enforced.


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## Terry Allan Hall (Feb 15, 2012)

ripper7777777 said:


> exoticsdr said:
> 
> 
> > Have been trying to stay away from this thread to not seem like a bad guy, BUT if she was to bring the tortoise to me, I would be obligated, by law, to confiscate the animal and call Texas Parks and Wildlife, whom would either instruct me on how to release the animal or instruct me to keep the animal until it could be placed with a licensed facility. It happens all the time, especially with raptors (federal law) and wildlife like skunks and raccoons (that also cannot be legally owned because of state rabies concerns). The law is the law, if you don't like it...please help to get it changed, but pretending not to know is beneath everyone on this forum. Doc
> ...



Agreed...


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## LuvmyGreenSon (Feb 17, 2012)

jaizei said:


> ascott said:
> 
> 
> > > Ignorance, or_ feigned_ ignorance, is not an excuse.
> ...



Well when I took my tort to the vet today he confirmed he was a Texas tort... I asked him about permits and he shrugged it off with a "look." He gave me the medications needed and sent me on my way. It is the law to have a permit, but personally I love my little guy with every fiber in my body. I am doing everything I can to get him better even shelling out the bank breaking vet bill. I don't see why I should call TPWD just to have them rip him from my life. I also have met a few other Texas Tort owners that do not have permits and have not had any run ins with TPWD. I may get in trouble down the line, but Guido is a part of my family now and I will fight to keep him in my family until God decides it's our time to part. Now I am not saying that I will not look into acquiring a permit, but for the time being I have a vet who seems to not be concerned with permits, but rather helping me get my "greenson" healthy. Besides I am a Biology major and he is making me want to pursue him as a future career! Maybe one day I'll start up my own rescue.


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## Terry Allan Hall (Feb 17, 2012)

LuvmyGreenSon said:


> jaizei said:
> 
> 
> > ascott said:
> ...




Better safe than sorry, so get that permit ASAP!


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## ALDABRAMAN (Feb 18, 2012)

*Welcome!*


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