# Can our patio support a tortoise?



## _paper_moon_ (Dec 12, 2017)

My fiance and I are looking to setup a loving home for a tortoise. We have a patio that we currently have no use for and plan to fill pretty much entirely with an outdoor tortoise enclosure. The patio is 16ft x 7ft and is shaded for most of the day. We live in southern California. Here is what our patio looks like for reference (taken in the morning):






Some questions and concerns we have:


Which species of tortoise would be happiest in our enclosure considering our climate, the amount of space we have, and the amount of sun the patio gets? The species we found the most in local adoption centers were texas tortoises, russian tortoises, desert tortoises, and box turtles. But we can look elsewhere for other species too if there is one that will better fit the environment we can provide.


We're a bit concerned that the tortoise won't get enough sun because the patio is shaded most of the day. Would setting up a heat lamp be enough? Or is the limited direct sunlight a deal breaker for keeping a tortoise.


Is there anything else we should consider or prepare before building our enclosure?


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## Yvonne G (Dec 12, 2017)

Hi, and welcome!

Far as the "sun" goes, a Redfoot tortoise would probably be ok there, however, there isn't any tortoise species that should be kept on cement. They need dirt/grass/weeds to walk on and eat. If you want to make some adjustments to the floor, and add about 6" of some sort of substrate, a few plants, etc. it would be an ok to set up a forest species of tortoise.


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## _paper_moon_ (Dec 12, 2017)

Yvonne G said:


> Hi, and welcome!
> 
> Far as the "sun" goes, a Redfoot tortoise would probably be ok there, however, there isn't any tortoise species that should be kept on cement. They need dirt/grass/weeds to walk on and eat. If you want to make some adjustments to the floor, and add about 6" of some sort of substrate, a few plants, etc. it would be an ok to set up a forest species of tortoise.



Thanks for the reccomendation! I will start researching that species.

We are planning on building something similar to a raised flower bed and filling it with substrate, plants, a burrow, water dish, and anything else the tortoise will need. We just wanted to get a sense if the space and sun would be adequate to support a tortoise before we started building.


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## ZEROPILOT (Dec 12, 2017)

+1 for Redfoot.
They need it warm, not hot and prefer indirect sunlight.
They also don't get huge.
You could dump some mulch on top of that cement and use it right away.
Later on you can just scoop, sweep and clean the cement.


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## _paper_moon_ (Dec 12, 2017)

ZEROPILOT said:


> +1 for Redfoot.
> They need it warm, not hot and prefer indirect sunlight.
> They also don't get huge.
> You could dump some mulch on top of that cement and use it right away.
> Later on you can just scoop, sweep and clean the cement.



Sounds perfect!  Do you know how deep the substrate should be for a red foot tortoise or where we can find that info?


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## GingerLove (Dec 12, 2017)

Russian!! Gotta support my favorite species. They are smaller. (Red foots are known to be more friendly generally, however)


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## ZEROPILOT (Dec 12, 2017)

_paper_moon_ said:


> Sounds perfect!  Do you know how deep the substrate should be for a red foot tortoise or where we can find that info?


Redfoot don't really dig. But they do like to bury in at night.
A few inches should do. Then deeper in the corners and under the hides.


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## Grandpa Turtle 144 (Dec 12, 2017)

Hi


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## _paper_moon_ (Dec 12, 2017)

GingerLove said:


> Russian!! Gotta support my favorite species. They are smaller. (Red foots are known to be more friendly generally, however)



Russian tortoises are super cute! We saw a lot of them when we were browsing local adoption centers. The main thing we're worried about is if the tortoise will get enough sun. Our patio has a high fence and is surrounded by houses and trees, so it's shaded most of the day. Would a Russian tortoise be ok in that sort of environment? We get typical southern california weather around here.


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## ZEROPILOT (Dec 12, 2017)

You can make a pathway out of semi sunk in flat cement blocks for people traffic.
They also help tortoises nails stay trimmed as they walk across them.


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## ZEROPILOT (Dec 12, 2017)

_paper_moon_ said:


> Russian tortoises are super cute! We saw a lot of them when we were browsing local adoption centers. The main thing we're worried about is if the tortoise will get enough sun since its enclosure would be in the shade most of the day. Would a Russian tortoise be ok in that sort of environment?


Yes.
But Russian tortoises are very scrappy.
You'll have to be content with just one. And they stay pretty small.


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## _paper_moon_ (Dec 12, 2017)

ZEROPILOT said:


> You can make a pathway out of semi sunk in flat cement blocks for people traffic.
> They also help tortoises nails stay trimmed as they walk across them.



Thats a great idea.  Since we really have no use for the patio at the moment, the plan is to convert the whole thing to a tortoise garden. We're thinking of creating a wall out of pavers/cinder blocks that lines the whole patio and then filling it with substrate and plants. That way we can protect the wood fence and prevent the little guy from escaping into the house. Some stepping stones for people traffic is a good idea in case we need to enter the garden for any reason. That way we can clearly see if where we are stepping is safely tortoise-free.


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## _paper_moon_ (Dec 12, 2017)

ZEROPILOT said:


> Yes.
> But Russian tortoises are very scrappy.
> You'll have to be content with just one. And they stay pretty small.



Just one tortoise is totally fine. We don't have a large yard or anything, so I'm pretty sure we wouldn't have the space to support multiple tortoises anyway. And if it's small, the space we can provide will probably feel more roomy.


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## GingerLove (Dec 12, 2017)

If you are worried about it being shady most of the time then you can always set up a little area with a UV light or a heat lamp. However, I have a feeling just being outside (even in the shade) ought to give them the UV they need. So basically Russians are known as being escape artists and full of attitude. Though I did put my vote in for the Russian (because that's what I would personally want since they are smaller and therefore not quite as messy), you might prefer a red foot. Red foots usually like things a tad more damp (correct me if I'm wrong, someone) and they can eat more fruits than a Russian. They are also known as being more friendly. A few other species you might want to look into would be Greek and Herman. They are very similar to Russians in the size. So it's really up to you but any of these species ought to work!


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## _paper_moon_ (Dec 12, 2017)

GingerLove said:


> If you are worried about it being shady most of the time then you can always set up a little area with a UV light or a heat lamp. However, I have a feeling just being outside (even in the shade) ought to give them the UV they need. So basically Russians are known as being escape artists and full of attitude. Though I did put my vote in for the Russian (because that's what I would personally want since they are smaller and therefore not quite as messy), you might prefer a red foot. Red foots usually like things a tad more damp (correct me if I'm wrong, someone) and they can eat more fruits than a Russian. They are also known as being more friendly. A few other species you might want to look into would be Greek and Herman. They are very similar to Russians in the size. So it's really up to you but any of these species ought to work!



Thanks! I will definitely research Russians. They sound like they would be a bit easier to maintain.


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## ZEROPILOT (Dec 13, 2017)

Keep in mind that Russians are skilled escape artists. Your pen will have to be a little more secure and the walls must be climbing proof.
Another reason why I like my Redfoot torts. They're lazy and don't make my life more complicated.


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## Taylor T. (Dec 13, 2017)

Another vote for Russian. They are great little creatures with tons of personality.


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## _paper_moon_ (Dec 13, 2017)

ZEROPILOT said:


> Keep in mind that Russians are skilled escape artists. Your pen will have to be a little more secure and the walls must be climbing proof.
> Another reason why I like my Redfoot torts. They're lazy and don't make my life more complicated.



I think if we stack the cinderblocks high enough around the perimeter, we can prevent any escape attempts. We're also planning on stretching chicken wire across the top of the fence to make a roof that will prevent predators getting in and the tortoise getting out (if it somehow manages to scale the 8 foot high privacy fence!) 

About redfoots though. I guess my main concern is I'm not sure how we can maintain the proper humidity the tortoise needs, especially since it'll be in a outdoor, open-top enclosure. It can get pretty dry around here with the santa anna winds. Is there a good way to maintain stable humidity year round? All the info I find online seems to be about maintaining humidity in a indoor closed-top tank. I'm not sure how well that translates to an outdoor setup.


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## tortoiseplanet (Dec 13, 2017)

You can get mulch from almost any home improvement stores including Lowe’s, Home Depot, etc. I get a huge bag of mulch for $3. Make sure you are getting 100% mulch with nothing added to it (chemicals/color). Make sure to only get mulch and not cedar or pine wood chips because those emit harmful chemicals. 
Hope that helps!
Thank you,
@tortoiseplanet


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## chin_lee (Dec 13, 2017)

Nobody is recommending greek or Hermann? Why no love for them? Lol


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## ZEROPILOT (Dec 14, 2017)

_paper_moon_ said:


> I think if we stack the cinderblocks high enough around the perimeter, we can prevent any escape attempts. We're also planning on stretching chicken wire across the top of the fence to make a roof that will prevent predators getting in and the tortoise getting out (if it somehow manages to scale the 8 foot high privacy fence!)
> 
> About redfoots though. I guess my main concern is I'm not sure how we can maintain the proper humidity the tortoise needs, especially since it'll be in a outdoor, open-top enclosure. It can get pretty dry around here with the santa anna winds. Is there a good way to maintain stable humidity year round? All the info I find online seems to be about maintaining humidity in a indoor closed-top tank. I'm not sure how well that translates to an outdoor setup.


Without a lot of direct sunlight. I'd use a sprinkler head on a garden hose for about 5 minutes 2 x a day to make it rain. The mulch tends to stay damp. Also, Redfoot don't climb or dig. Mine have never gotten through my 6' "shadow box" wooden privacy fence. But now that I have a dog next door, I don't allow them out of their pen to roam the yard.
Check out my video: Redfoot habitat Florida style on Youtube.
I think everything I use here would translate to so. Cal.


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## lisa127 (Dec 14, 2017)

Redfoot and box turtles both would appreciate plenty of shade.


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## ZEROPILOT (Dec 14, 2017)

I guess you're just ruling out the GIANT species. Aldabra and Sulcata? (Galop)


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## _paper_moon_ (Dec 14, 2017)

ZEROPILOT said:


> Without a lot of direct sunlight. I'd use a sprinkler head on a garden hose for about 5 minutes 2 x a day to make it rain. The mulch tends to stay damp. Also, Redfoot don't climb or dig. Mine have never gotten through my 6' "shadow box" wooden privacy fence. But now that I have a dog next door, I don't allow them out of their pen to roam the yard.
> Check out my video: Redfoot habitat Florida style on Youtube.
> I think everything I use here would translate to so. Cal.



Your setup looks really nice! My fiance and I don't have experience with landscaping or building things, but we're going to try our best. It's very helpful to see the sort of things we'll need to include and how to arrange them.


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## _paper_moon_ (Dec 14, 2017)

ZEROPILOT said:


> I guess you're just ruling out the GIANT species. Aldabra and Sulcata? (Galop)


I don't think we have quite enough space for any giants. A smaller tortoise would probably be happier with the space we can provide.


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## _paper_moon_ (Dec 14, 2017)

tortoiseplanet said:


> You can get mulch from almost any home improvement stores including Lowe’s, Home Depot, etc. I get a huge bag of mulch for $3. Make sure you are getting 100% mulch with nothing added to it (chemicals/color). Make sure to only get mulch and not cedar or pine wood chips because those emit harmful chemicals.
> Hope that helps!
> Thank you,
> @tortoiseplanet



Thanks for the info!


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## _paper_moon_ (Dec 14, 2017)

chin_lee said:


> Nobody is recommending greek or Hermann? Why no love for them? Lol



Hermanns are very pretty. ^^ I really like the look of them. From what I've read online, it seems the care and environment necessary for a Hermann or Greek is pretty much the same as a Russian tortoise right? I'm still a bit worried about these types of tortoises (Testudo) receiving enough sunlight in our shaded patio. But I think providing a few Powersun lamps might be enough? Then again, rather than relying on lamps, the tortoise may be happier if we go with a species that is already naturally better suited for shade (like a redfoot or box turtle). I still haven't decided either way, but I definitely appreciate all the recommendations and information everyone has been providing!


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## Alex Z (Jan 1, 2018)

_paper_moon_ said:


> Sounds perfect!  Do you know how deep the substrate should be for a red foot tortoise or where we can find that info?




On youtube, look up the channels ernest johnson and kamp kenan. You will see great outdoor enclosures, among other surprises! In here too, many members have done amazing work with outdoor spaces. Redfoot is your best option. They love to dig when they are young. Lay down cypress mulch with coco coir soil. With planted cactus pads, mangos. My wife and I have 4 of them. Redfoots are beautiful.


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## _paper_moon_ (Jan 2, 2018)

Alex Z said:


> On youtube, look up the channels ernest johnson and kamp kenan. You will see great outdoor enclosures, among other surprises! In here too, many members have done amazing work with outdoor spaces. Redfoot is your best option. They love to dig when they are young. Lay down cypress mulch with coco coir soil. With planted cactus pads, mangos. My wife and I have 4 of them. Redfoots are beautiful.



Thank you for the links to these YouTube channels! They are very helpful!


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## _paper_moon_ (Jan 2, 2018)

Since the outdoor enclosure will be in the shade pretty much the whole day, should we invest in a uvb lamp? Will the ambient uvb in the shade be enough for a redfoot tortoise or will it need direct uvb exposure through a uvb lamp?


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