# Permethrin



## SHARK FARMER (Feb 17, 2019)

Has any used or considered using permethrin to keep fire ants out of an outdoor enclosure? I’ve been battling fire ants on my property in Florida and we are always concerned they will get into our Aldabra enclosure. We’ve had several close calls in the 2 months since we moved onto our 10 acre lot. We are going to broadcast bait in April with extinguish plus (pasture safe) but until then we’ve been mound treating around the house and the ants are attracted to the heat and electricity of the tortoise night enclosure so I need to keep them away. I’ve read several peer reviewed papers on using different insecticides on reptile mites and specifically tortoises. Seems like permethrin is quite reptile safe and the application rate is the same for perimeter ant treatments as the commercially available permethrin reptile mite treatment. I searched on here an no one has ever posted about permethrin though. I would be applying a spray of 0.5% permethrin sfr to the perimeter of their enclosure and allowing to dry before they have access to the area. Thoughts?


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## jsheffield (Feb 18, 2019)

Fwiw:

http://www.reptilesmagazine.com/Rep...ment-For-Reptiles-Pyrethrins-And-Permethrins/

https://www.jherpmedsurg.com/doi/pdf/10.5818/1529-9651.13.4.16

It would seem that permethrin use is thought to be safe with tortoises, with some caveats ....

Jamie


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## Yvonne G (Feb 18, 2019)

We have fire ants here too. They are attracted to meat type foods and sweet type foods. And they can be a death sentence to a baby tortoise (a meat type food).

When I see an ant hill I make a little indentation at the mouth of the hill and pour poison down the hole. I don't worry if it's tortoise safe poison. The object is to kill the ants. Then I lay a piece of plywood over the hole and place a brick on top so the tortoises can't move the plywood. 

In my experience, you can't kill the hoards of ants. All you do with the poisoning is make them move to a different location. So it's a never ending battle. Here are some ant killing remedies I've tried over the years. Some work, some don't:

*Several Home-made Ant Remedies*


1 – Boric Acid

Ingredients:

1 Tablespoon of Boric Acid, 1 tsp of Sugar, 4 oz water, Cotton Balls.

Mix Boric Acid and Sugar in a bowl. This can be poured over a cotton wad in

a small dish or bottle cap. Keep this from drying out for continued

effectiveness. Place Cotton balls in path of Ants. If the ants are drawn to sugar, if you make a solution of boric acid and sugar, not too much boric acid initially, the ants will eat it up take it to their young and feed it to them. This method will kill the entire nest in about two weeks. The solution should initially be weak because you don't want them to taste the boric acid and you don't want to kill the ants before they feed the rest of the nest. If they are protein eating ants mix the boric acid in broth. 



2 – Another Boric Acid


>> 1 teaspoon boric acid (available at any drug store,, $2.99 for 4 oz) 6 tablespoons sugar

>> 2 cups water

>> mix together in a jar till all dissolved,, label and store safely.

>>Soak a few cotton balls with it, then put them in a small, covered plastic >container (margarine or <?>) with a few small openings in it for the ants to >get in, (I also put a brick on top so other curious creatures could not get >in)and then freshen it 1-2 times a week.

>> This is a slow acting 1 percent solution to get them to take some back to

>> the nest and even feed the queen :>

>>after a few weeks changing to a 1/2 percent solution should keep them gone.


3 - bacon grease

....in a margarine tub which is sunk into the ground level. The ants here can smell animal fat from what seems like a mile away...Around the outside of the margarine tub I place a big circle of boric acid...and cover it with a rock. The ants have to walk through the boric acid to get to the bacon grease, then back through it on the way out. If they get back to the nest carrying it on their legs, it kills whatever it comes into contact with. We have 4or 5 species of ants here...two of which are lethal! 


4 - Found this in Jerry Bakers stuff

Ant Ambrosia

4-5 tbsp. of cornmeal

3 tbsp. of bacon grease

3 tbsp. of baking powder

3 packages of baker's yeast


Mix the cornmeal and bacon grease into a paste, then add the baking powder and yeast. Dab the gooey mix on the sides of jar lids, and set them near the anthills. The pesky critters will love it to death!!""



5 - If you can't find Everclear, liquefy orange peels and pour it around the ant hills. You may get fruit flies, but you won't have any trouble with ants!


6 - I have a friend that put a circle of diatomaceous earth around her aviaries and

effectively kept the ants out that way. She also uses it to directly attack any hills in the area.


7 - I believe that the "new age chalk" is a combination of diatomaceous earth and boric acid. Boric acid is the major component in "Roach Proof" and is a fairly benign and very effective means of insect control.


8 - Amdro is another effective treatment, but it is an actual poison, but safer than others. Both Amdro and Logic are baits that the ants pick up and take into the mound so that the queen eats it.


9 - (this one's from Tortoise Forum Member, Loni: I had a yard that was half fire ant hill because there were a lot of fruit trees. I used the "erupting volcano" recipe from the kids science fairs. Sprinkle the ant hill liberally with baking soda and then pour concentrated white vinegar (from Home Depot, etc not food grade) on it. The resulting foam is acidic and follows their tunnels into the nest itself and kills them. Then water heavily to disperse the residue when it is done. Didn't have tortoises at the time but was safe for dogs and cats.


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## SHARK FARMER (Feb 18, 2019)

jsheffield said:


> Fwiw:
> 
> http://www.reptilesmagazine.com/Rep...ment-For-Reptiles-Pyrethrins-And-Permethrins/
> 
> ...



Yeah, these were some of the support for why I was fairly confident it would be safe to use around them. Just surprised it isn’t a common suggested treatment for fire ants on TFO since it’s labeled for that use and wondered if anyone had tried it. The ants are no joke here.


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