# Upper Respiratory Disease/California Desert Tortoise



## Katmb85 (Jun 24, 2011)

I'm hoping someone can help me understand this better. 

I have a customer at work who is trying to find a home for a 3 year old CA Desert Tortoise. I know that if I take him I will need to get a permit and all that jazz. My question is about Upper Respiratory problems. 

I currently have 2 sulcatas that are healthy. I was told that this CA desert tortoise had a runny nose about 6 months ago (1st and only occurrence in 3 years) and it was treated with anti-biotics and has not had a problem since.

Ive read online that once they are a carrier they always will be even if they appear to be healthy. Is this true? I'm worried about my sulcatas getting it. 

The CA tortoise is on sand substrate (which I don't prefer personally) and I was wondering if this caused it. 

I'm just getting conflicting info online so if someone could explain the disease to me that would be great. I figured it was similar to a cold and like humans, colds can be cured, and if you eat well etc... your risk of contracting the cold again is slim. Is this really an incurable illness thats going to make my other torts sick if he is around?


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## Maggie Cummings (Jun 24, 2011)

It is like you having a cold and if you did take this tortoise it should never be allowed around your Sulcata anyhow. You shouldn't ever mix species. You can get a permit, it's a simple matter of filling out a form. Then if I were you I would take him to a Vet and get a blood test to make sure that he does not carry the micoplasma germ that he could possibly pass over to your Sulcata. That is a very serious disease and much more important than an ordinary Upper Respiratory Infection...
If you took this tortoise, which by the way, is my favorite species, one that is very friendly and outgoing, much like Sulcata. Anyhow there should be a 6 month quarantine from any other tortoises, then just make sure you set them up separately. It's the micoplasma that presents itself as a URTI that you need to worry about and if you are careful in your handling you will do fine...


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## Katmb85 (Jun 24, 2011)

Thank you. I would not mix them but they would end up treading across the same grass just a different times. If I get him tested and he does NOT have the microplasma germ then does this mean he will not contaminate my sulcatas? Is the runny nose a sure sign of this?

Argh! This is making my head hurt. HAHA

Now I am worried. I let the owner of the CA desert tortoise bring it by my house to show me, it walked on the grass in my front yard. Then after they left later that day my sulcatas where out there in the same grass sun bathing. How contagious is this stuff? Should I be worried now? Darn it! I should have looked more into this before I allowed him to bring his tortoise over. I hope I did not jeopardize my sulcatas, I am truly worried.


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## ascott (Jun 24, 2011)

Hello I agree 100% with Maggie3fan...I have 4 male CDT's and I love this species. The URTI is highly contagious BUT with proper care in your handling you should be fine.

In your thread you said that the tortoise had a runny nose and so it was treated with antibiotics, but I wonder did the vet even run blood test as maggie mentioned? alot of vets will just give antibiotics at the sign of a runny nose...and no, a runny nose is not a sure sign of URTI...there are other situations that can cause a runny nose...other signs of URTI along with a runny nose a tortoise will show sign of disinterest, lethargic and an overall unwellness about them...not simply a runny nose.

I have one of our guys that recently dug a burrow, when ever he comes out from digging his nose is a little runny....and when he shoves his whole face, nose and all crammed into eat his cactus pad like someone is going to steal it from him...he has a bubble of cactus juice that is all over his face and when he shoves his nose into the cactuse then he breathes and a bubble....but there are no signs that would cause me to think URTI as a runny nose is not sole indicator the illness is present...

I too would suggest never mixing tortoise species....actually ever...each has their own immune system designed to handle their "own" type of diseases and not equipped to handle different types of diseases mixing species can cause....


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## Katmb85 (Jun 24, 2011)

The current owner did not get a blood test. The vet only saw the runny nose and prescribed the meds. It has been 6 months since then and there has been no symptoms, the runny nose went away. She said that was the first and only time in three years that it happened. When I found out the substrate in her cage was sand I though that maybe the dust had something to do with the runny nose. I have decided not to take the tortoise because I do not want to risk it, but like I mentioned earlier the CA tortoise walked in my yard and then later my sulcatas walking in the same grass, is this enough to contaminate my sulcatas? I should have never let her bring her tort over. :/



ascott said:


> Hello I agree 100% with Maggie3fan...I have 4 male CDT's and I love this species. The URTI is highly contagious BUT with proper care in your handling you should be fine.
> 
> In your thread you said that the tortoise had a runny nose and so it was treated with antibiotics, but I wonder did the vet even run blood test as maggie mentioned? alot of vets will just give antibiotics at the sign of a runny nose...and no, a runny nose is not a sure sign of URTI...there are other situations that can cause a runny nose...other signs of URTI along with a runny nose a tortoise will show sign of disinterest, lethargic and an overall unwellness about them...not simply a runny nose.
> 
> ...


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## Maggie Cummings (Jun 24, 2011)

Stop worrying I'm sure your animals are fine. It's a shame that you decided not to take the desert tortoise. They are a great species proud and out going. They are fun and I personally think if you have the room you missed a great opportunity.


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## ascott (Jun 24, 2011)

You know what, you can worry yourself to the point of insanity It is what happens when we take on the role of host/family for these guys.

I believe your tortoises will end up just fine Do I know this for certain, of course not, do I think so, yes. We never know for certain the health of our tortoises but rather we do our best and then the rest is up to a higher power....so to speak.

Where about do you live, does your friend have an option for rehoming her CDT? Why is she trying to find a new home for her tortoise?


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## Katmb85 (Jun 24, 2011)

Thanks a lot. How is the disease spread? Is it through feces? Or any contact? I do have quite a large yard so I guess I could make two separate enclosures. But it might just be easier to only have my sulcatas, that way there is no risk. I'm very attached to my little guys I would hate from them to get sick. I wonder how much that blood test is, if I got that test and it was negative then I would not have to be so concerned.





maggie3fan said:


> Stop worrying I'm sure your animals are fine. But I would suggest that the CDT and your Sulcata are set up so they do not cross contaminate. I don't think they should have a shared grass. Each species carries it's own pathogens indigenous to itself that could conceivably make the other species sick or even dead. Similar to what we did to the Native Americans so many years ago. So each species needs it's own habitat and it's own grass area not a shared area even at different times. One tort could poop the other could eat it then off ya go. Do you understand what I am saying?
> I would suggest that if you have the room, you will not be sorry to take the desert tort. They are a great species.


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## ascott (Jun 24, 2011)

oh yeah....if your friend decides to continue to host her CDT you should strongly suggest to your friend to not house her tortoise in a sand environment...as with any other tortoise, sand greatly increases their chance for impaction....and that is a terrible event.


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## Katmb85 (Jun 24, 2011)

I live in Chino, CA. The plan is that this person will bring me their tortoise this weekend because they are moving and have no other choice. I do not believe I will keep it, I should just stick to the sulcatas for now. So I planned on contacting the California Tortoise Society and seeing if they could adopt the tortoise out to someone else. If anyone lives nearby I would be happy to give her to you but I guess you need permits to own them. Thats why I though the tortoise society was a good option since they can take care of all that for me...




ascott said:


> You know what, you can worry yourself to the point of insanity It is what happens when we take on the role of host/family for these guys.
> 
> I believe your tortoises will end up just fine Do I know this for certain, of course not, do I think so, yes. We never know for certain the health of our tortoises but rather we do our best and then the rest is up to a higher power....so to speak.
> 
> Where about do you live, does your friend have an option for rehoming her CDT? Why is she trying to find a new home for her tortoise?


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## ascott (Jun 24, 2011)

Hi...it sounds as though you have a "bad taste" in your mouth so to speak and have no intention of keeping the little guy. I agree with maggie in that I don't believe you would regret hosting him and the permit is a simple process...BUT, since you are not going to keep him I would suggest that yes you contact local CTTC rep and get him set up to go to them...are you going to take him and hold him until you make arrangements with CTTC? They are a great organization, really. 

I would love to take him in, however, as I said before I have 4 males which means I have 4 individual enclosures for them. I was laid off not too long ago and while I have a little more extra time right now I don't have extra cash flow needed to get him set up in his own enclosure. And while I would love nothing more than to host another of these guys (they are so awesome) I dont think I can at this time  I hate saying that and under other circumstances I would have jumped on the opportunity as I live here in the high desert/apple valley ca.


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## Katmb85 (Jun 24, 2011)

I have a contact (I've attended some of their meetings) at the Chino Chapter of the CTTC. I emailed him this evening and he is always really quick to get back to me. Im sure they will find her a great home! 
I still have a feeling the runny nose was from dusty sand. Since she has had it since it was a hatchling and it lived alone for its entire life and only exhibited a runny nose once in it's entire life I just have a feeling it was a bedding issue.... Thanks everyone! 



ascott said:


> Hi...it sounds as though you have a "bad taste" in your mouth so to speak and have no intention of keeping the little guy. I agree with maggie in that I don't believe you would regret hosting him and the permit is a simple process...BUT, since you are not going to keep him I would suggest that yes you contact local CTTC rep and get him set up to go to them...are you going to take him and hold him until you make arrangements with CTTC? They are a great organization, really.
> 
> I would love to take him in, however, as I said before I have 4 males which means I have 4 individual enclosures for them. I was laid off not too long ago and while I have a little more extra time right now I don't have extra cash flow needed to get him set up in his own enclosure. And while I would love nothing more than to host another of these guys (they are so awesome) I dont think I can at this time  I hate saying that and under other circumstances I would have jumped on the opportunity as I live here in the high desert/apple valley ca.


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## ascott (Jun 24, 2011)

Oh good so enjoy her/him the next time you meet...remember this is a species that is quickly being forced toward extinction, they are a fantastic tortoise and once they imprint your life you will have a new fondness for them that lingers....you were meant to be in the path of helping...good job


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## dmmj (Jun 24, 2011)

The mycoplasm is spread by basically body fluids. So when the first one released into the wild starting getting into contact with other CDT's they started to spread the germs. I would not worry about him just walking around since it is spread by blood snot and other bodily fluids. The chino chapter has some great members, and basic hygiene prevention should work with these species.


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## -EJ (Jun 26, 2011)

Putting together any tortoises is always a gamble.

RNS... is a catch phrase for many diseases.

My DTs got on fine with my sulcatas... and leopards... and hermanns.

The DT is the most fragile of the group.

What's interesting is that this post made me think that I've never seen a Sulcata with a runny nose. They are tough as tanks.

You are thinking of mycoplasma which is one cause of RNS. If the tortoise has it... it can be tested and it will show up even if RNS is not present. 



Katmb85 said:


> I'm hoping someone can help me understand this better.
> 
> I have a customer at work who is trying to find a home for a 3 year old CA Desert Tortoise. I know that if I take him I will need to get a permit and all that jazz. My question is about Upper Respiratory problems.
> 
> ...


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## Yvonne G (Jun 26, 2011)

Hi Katmb85:

Did we ever learn your name?


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## Katmb85 (Aug 8, 2011)

Sorry Yvonne! I just saw your reply today. My name is Kat (Kathleen)


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