# In over my head



## EllieMay

My dream dog has always been an English bulldog.. so when my Yorke passed last year, I finally went and got me one. I had done lots of research and considered myself aware of health conditions they could be prone to. My baby Cinder will be 6 months old tomorrow and she is everything I had hoped and more... last week I noticed her giving to one of her back legs.. I immediately took her to the vet fearing hip dysplasia or worse.. she was diagnosed with a luxating patella.. ( dislocating knee cap) . Vet put her on some anti inflammatories and said it’s possible it can heal on it’s own . If it’s not better in a week, probable surgery. He did say that her x rays including her hips looked good. Anyway, I’m not always very trusting of vets so naturally I came straight home and started educating myself. I ordered her a brace to help stabilize, joint supplements, and special food to support the healing process. I have also been doing water therapy with her... I would really like to avoid surgery as she is still so young... on the flip side, I want to do what’s best for her and I am second guessing myself... how long should I give her to try healing on her own.? She is still very active and full throttle and it’s hard to keep her calm and still. Her leg does not seem to be improving yet but she is also not that bothered by it... I can feel the knee cap still luxating at times but she doesn’t mind me massaging or exercising her... does anyone have any input for this situation?


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## Blackdog1714

That is exactly why I have health insurance for my dogs! Poor baby the water therapy is really gonna help. Does Cinder do any stairs- I put a ramp in years ago and am very glad I did it. Good luck you deserve it!


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## EllieMay

Blackdog1714 said:


> That is exactly why I have health insurance for my dogs! Poor baby the water therapy is really gonna help. Does Cinder do any stairs- I put a ramp in years ago and am very glad I did it. Good luck you deserve it!


I do have a couple doggy stairs for her but she has not been allowed to use them since this started... I am going to take her x-Ray films and see a specialist next week... it’s just that I think vets around here have become so busy that they all want to jump to the first common conclusion instead of evaluating the individual patient...it sucks because I’m the first to admit that I’m not smarter than them or trained in their field.... yeti often find myself doing a better job of helping my animals at home... and I have been thinking about the health insurance for Cinder. Who do you use?


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## Blackdog1714

Nationwide. Sadly you are very true that Vets are becoming like real doctors-booking more appointments than they have time for per hour. It is like a smash and grab robbery at a jewelry store. I am fortunate that we have a surgeon here in town that is excellent all around. With the brace and therapy you may not need surgery. By increasing the strength in the surrounding muscles it should self correct. You have to be diligent and really limit her activity when not doing therapy. Good Luck!


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## Yvonne G

I'm so sorry to hear that. I LOVE Cinder and hope she gets better on her own.


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## Maro2Bear

Yes.....we all marvel at Cinder!


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## wellington

Years ago I had a dog with both knees. I never heard of it getting better but that they could be lived with. They didnt have the stuff back then that they have out now for joint care etc.
My dog did very well without surgery. However, with your dog being a bull dog, and only 6 months now, I wouldn't give much hope with it getting better if that's even possible or it not being bothersome. Do not let her get over weight. At 6 months she would fly thru the surgery better then when she gets older. Good luck in trying to ward off needing surgery. If you change your mind I would for sure seek out an orthopedic vet.


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## EllieMay

Yvonne G said:


> I'm so sorry to hear that. I LOVE Cinder and hope she gets better on her own.


Thanks Yvonne... I love her like or of my kids so I just want to do right by her...


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## EllieMay

wellington said:


> Years ago I had a dog with both knees. I never heard of it getting better but that they could be lived with. They didnt have the stuff back then that they have out now for joint care etc.
> My dog did very well without surgery. However, with your dog being a bull dog, and only 6 months now, I wouldn't give much hope with it getting better if that's even possible or it not being bothersome. Do not let her get over weight. At 6 months she would fly thru the surgery better then when she gets older. Good luck in trying to ward off needing surgery. If you change your mind I would for sure seek out an orthopedic vet.


Thank you.. I am considering that as well. She has recently been spayed and did very well with that but I am just Leary of her being put to sleep.. bulldogs are risky there too..


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## Bee62

I am so sorry to hear that your lovely Cinder is sick and needs surgery. I`ve read that sooner is better ( when the dog is still young ) but I have no own experience. Sorry.


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## wellington

EllieMay said:


> Thank you.. I am considering that as well. She has recently been spayed and did very well with that but I am just Leary of her being put to sleep.. bulldogs are risky there too..


Yes, surgery is risky for them, more then long snout dogs. However, even more risky the older they get. It's a rock and a hard place. Being only 6 months, you could give it 6 months with supplements etc and see how it goes. At a year old if no improvements then I would do surgery. A year is still young. Just keep the weight at the low end of normal and try to get her not too jump. 
Good luck and keep us posted.


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## mark1

i've had a couple dogs with this issue , a poodle , the smaller kind , vet did the surgery , then another , then another , then we put the dog down ...... moral of that story , if you get it done , get it done by a veterinary orthopedic surgeon .. I also had a neapolitan mastiff with this problem , big dog , took her to an ortho guy , was early on in vets specializing in stuff , he was doing the orthopedic surgeries in most of ohio …... he told me if it didn't come out often , to wait on it , ......never did a surgery she lived to be 12yrs and died from cancer ......... it did stop happening........ if it goes back in easily and stays in ? i 'd wait , unless it was a serious problem , and you can't get it to stay in ..... i'd walk the dog a lot , uphill and up stairs ....... going upstairs , CONTROLLED , is a great low impact exercise for dogs with hind quarter problems , knees and hips ......... a 6 month old eb is still getting bone , the groove possibly may deepen enough to hold it , and the dogs strength will increase ....... i'd be skeptical of someone wanting to fix a dog this young unless it was a painful and debilitating condition ......... if you do do a surgery , a competent experienced ortho surgeon ......


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## ZEROPILOT

Suki has something like that. Her hips pop out of joint.
It's from inbreeding the teacup Chihuahua from what my vet says.
So far it hasn't been much of an issue. But it may require surgery in the future.
Is this a "boutique" dog thing?


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## EllieMay

mark1 said:


> i've had a couple dogs with this issue , a poodle , the smaller kind , vet did the surgery , then another , then another , then we put the dog down ...... moral of that story , if you get it done , get it done by a veterinary orthopedic surgeon .. I also had a neapolitan mastiff with this problem , big dog , took her to an ortho guy , was early on in vets specializing in stuff , he was doing the orthopedic surgeries in most of ohio …... he told me if it didn't come out often , to wait on it , ......never did a surgery she lived to be 12yrs and died from cancer ......... it did stop happening........ if it goes back in easily and stays in ? i 'd wait , unless it was a serious problem , and you can't get it to stay in ..... i'd walk the dog a lot , uphill and up stairs ....... going upstairs , CONTROLLED , is a great low impact exercise for dogs with hind quarter problems , knees and hips ......... a 6 month old eb is still getting bone , the groove possibly may deepen enough to hold it , and the dogs strength will increase ....... i'd be skeptical of someone wanting to fix a dog this young unless it was a painful and debilitating condition ......... if you do do a surgery , a competent experienced ortho surgeon ......


Thank you! Good information. I would most definitely be picky about a surgeon..


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## EllieMay

wellington said:


> Yes, surgery is risky for them, more then long snout dogs. However, even more risky the older they get. It's a rock and a hard place. Being only 6 months, you could give it 6 months with supplements etc and see how it goes. At a year old if no improvements then I would do surgery. A year is still young. Just keep the weight at the low end of normal and try to get her not too jump.
> Good luck and keep us posted.


This is kind of what I was leaning towards as long as she didn’t seem to be in pain or loosing quality of life.... I really just want the best for her and if surgery is it, that’s fine too... I need to feel confident in it though.


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## EllieMay

ZEROPILOT said:


> Suki has something like that. Her hips pop out of joint.
> It's from inbreeding the teacup Chihuahua from what my vet says.
> So far it hasn't been much of an issue. But it may require surgery in the future.
> Is this a "boutique" dog thing?


I have read lots of info that points to genetic reasons but don’t think it’s always the case...it does seem that the higher demand breeds are a bit higher maintenance and I would bet it is from all the planned breeding to produce certain characteristics... people should leave that up to Mother Nature but that’s just my opinion of course..


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## Pistachio's Pamperer

I feel the need to share some advice based on what I have seen growing up and used as a adult. (See my first ever post about my father and his shaman/Dr Doolittle type behavior. LOL)
Have you looked into the uses of colloidal silver? I add a few drops of it into any water made available to
any/all of my pets. It's something I would suggest to all pet owners not just ones having health issues.

I have a dog who has joint issues, he is a badly bred border collie with horrible genetics. We won't get into the vets surgical explanation, but to say the least I wasn't happy with the numbers. And I got multiple opinions. 
I have him on colloidal silver, Nutramax Cosequin DS Plus with MSM Chewable Tablets which are most affordable at Sam's Club, and I also use PetHonesty Hemp Mobility Snacks Hip + Joint Support Soft Chews Dog Supplement which I get through CHEWY. 
I find using these "made" products easier and quicker. I used to make my own remedy with fish oil, Turmeric, etc. And you could potentially build your own as well just have to do a lot of research.
I am also on the canned food is -bad- road, so I make my own "wet" foods. So I add a lot of joint healthy foods to that--which also helps keep his weight down I have noticed. And I only feed Purina brand dry food.
We also do some water exercise. And -no- slick floors in the part of the house where he spends the majority of his time.
We have been living this way for 4 years now. And I'm not gonna lie, he has some bad days where mommy has to lift him up on his couch. But he still has bladder/bathroom control. He still gets to run. I don't ever see anything that would lead me to believe he is in pain, just knows he has restrictions. 
But being the chance of losing him, crippling him from the hips down, completely crippling him, causing him more pain and no benefit from the surgery/surgeries: I decided to go alternative medicine. 

I will keep your little one in my healing thoughts.
-Meg


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## EllieMay

Pistachio's Pamperer said:


> I feel the need to share some advice based on what I have seen growing up and used as a adult. (See my first ever post about my father and his shaman/Dr Doolittle type behavior. LOL)
> Have you looked into the uses of colloidal silver? I add a few drops of it into any water made available to
> any/all of my pets. It's something I would suggest to all pet owners not just ones having health issues.
> 
> I have a dog who has joint issues, he is a badly bred border collie with horrible genetics. We won't get into the vets surgical explanation, but to say the least I wasn't happy with the numbers. And I got multiple opinions.
> I have him on colloidal silver, Nutramax Cosequin DS Plus with MSM Chewable Tablets which are most affordable at Sam's Club, and I also use PetHonesty Hemp Mobility Snacks Hip + Joint Support Soft Chews Dog Supplement which I get through CHEWY.
> I find using these "made" products easier and quicker. I used to make my own remedy with fish oil, Turmeric, etc. And you could potentially build your own as well just have to do a lot of research.
> I am also on the canned food is -bad- road, so I make my own "wet" foods. So I add a lot of joint healthy foods to that--which also helps keep his weight down I have noticed. And I only feed Purina brand dry food.
> We also do some water exercise. And -no- slick floors in the part of the house where he spends the majority of his time.
> We have been living this way for 4 years now. And I'm not gonna lie, he has some bad days where mommy has to lift him up on his couch. But he still has bladder/bathroom control. He still gets to run. I don't ever see anything that would lead me to believe he is in pain, just knows he has restrictions.
> But being the chance of losing him, crippling him from the hips down, completely crippling him, causing him more pain and no benefit from the surgery/surgeries: I decided to go alternative medicine.
> 
> I will keep your little one in my healing thoughts.
> -Meg


Thank you Meg! I am actually on that track with you. I did order some hemp and turmeric chews. She is on the cosequin max and I switched her food to AvoDerm joint health... I took her off the vet meds a couple days ago because I had not seen any improvement and maybe even was a little worse since I had taken her in... I also bought a huge rug to put in the living room for her.... today she did bath exercises which she loves. And she got a good massage..l I could not feel her patella moving near as much... also, her limp was much improved today so something is happening!


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## EllieMay




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## Blackdog1714

You are doing basically what us humans are required by our health insurance industry. PT first then maybe an MRI and surgery later


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## Pistachio's Pamperer

Awesome. Yr a great doggy mommy. I totally forgot to mention massage therapy. I actually took classes on said subject. Both for humans and pets. 
-Meg


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## Yvonne G

EllieMay said:


>


Dang that's a cute doggy!


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## mark1

EllieMay said:


>



the slippery floors are not helpful ………...


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## mark1

looks like she has a slight limp on her left rear in the video ? did the dogs knee come out just recently before the video ? I never seen them painful from it unless it was out or recently out , even then I've put them back in and seen them go about what they were doing like nothing happened ……..did they check for any other knee problems like a partial tear ?


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## EllieMay

mark1 said:


> looks like she has a slight limp on her left rear in the video ? did the dogs knee come out just recently before the video ? I never seen them painful from it unless it was out or recently out , even then I've put them back in and seen them go about what they were doing like nothing happened ……..did they check for any other knee problems like a partial tear ?


They did check for the tear or rupture because that was one of my bigger concerns.... she doesn’t offer any resistance or or act bothered at all when you manipulate the area..I am still restricting her activities majorly to be safe though. The limp is so confusing... but in that video, it was a lot better than I have seen at other times. That being said, sometimes she doesn’t limp at all! We will still follow up with an orthopedic vet to be safe.


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## mark1

a really "confusing" limp i've seen young dogs get is pano , panosteitis ........


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## EllieMay

mark1 said:


> a really "confusing" limp i've seen young dogs get is pano , panosteitis ........


Googling now! Thanks


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## EllieMay

Update:
We had an appointment today with an orthopedic vet for a second opinion and a follow up... We took new xrays and compared them to the old.... nothing!!! Everything looks great. She doesn’t think the knee should cause the limp and was pretty confused.. she did think of the Pano as a possibility.. we are sending both sets of films to Pet Rays... I should get a call tomorrow ...


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## EllieMay

She’s really unconcerned ;~}


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## Blackdog1714

Awesome news! A real Orthopedic Vet knows their stuff! In Richmond we have a triple threat in one block- emergency vet/orthopedic-surgery/rye &allergy vets! I have personally known some of these vets for over 15 years and countless surgeries (chow chow entropy)


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## EllieMay

Blackdog1714 said:


> Awesome news! A real Orthopedic Vet knows their stuff! In Richmond we have a triple threat in one block- emergency vet/orthopedic-surgery/rye &allergy vets! I have personally known some of these vets for over 15 years and countless surgeries (chow chow entropy)


I don’t know if it’s good or not... the unknown is pretty scary.... I would be really freaked if Cinder seemed more bothered but the limp is still pretty disturbing.. at least we are ruling out what it’s not.. maybe during this time, she will grow out if it.. (that’s what I’m prayin for at least.) I wouldn’t mind having your friends in my neighborhood 

Your Chow is gorgeous but I couldn’t imagine dealing with all that hair... I groom Cinder at.east every other day and she has a gorgeous thick coat... but damn does she shed!


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## mark1

EllieMay said:


> Update:
> We had an appointment today with an orthopedic vet for a second opinion and a follow up... We took new xrays and compared them to the old.... nothing!!! Everything looks great. She doesn’t think the knee should cause the limp and was pretty confused.. she did think of the Pano as a possibility.. we are sending both sets of films to Pet Rays... I should get a call tomorrow ...



lots of innocuous reasons for a pup to limp that they do grow out of ……… exercise her a lot , low impact , low torque exercises ……… walking up and down hills , the more the better …….. a radiologist will see pano in an x-ray , it's like an inflammation of the bone ……..


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## Blackdog1714

EllieMay said:


> I don’t know if it’s good or not... the unknown is pretty scary.... I would be really freaked if Cinder seemed more bothered but the limp is still pretty disturbing.. at least we are ruling out what it’s not.. maybe during this time, she will grow out if it.. (that’s what I’m prayin for at least.) I wouldn’t mind having your friends in my neighborhood
> 
> Your Chow is gorgeous but I couldn’t imagine dealing with all that hair... I groom Cinder at.east every other day and she has a gorgeous thick coat... but damn does she shed!


We KILL vacuums at our house that is why we finally upgraded to Dyson's. The wife hits the house everyday with the cordless and the weekned it gets the corded animal. Oddly enough a godd bath helps and a good conditioner is a must! I use Earthbath Oatmeal and Aloe. PM me if you ever want a sample. I have groomed long haired dogs for years-wife's preference and a range of coat types so I have tried a ton.


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## AnnV

Just a reminder, coming from a 40+ year pet professional, since so many here have mentioned such health issues:
Just like tortoises, there are breeders, then there are really great breeders.
Always seek out the really great breeders for dogs. They utilize DNA and other diagnostic tests before breeding their animals. Most breeds have tests specific to them. Google OFA or CHIC Health tests.
There is a certification one can get thru OFA for patellas. As this is a genetic problem. Bad knees beget bad knees.
But even with testing, a pup or two may fall short. Your breeder should be informed, so they can remove parents, and other relatives from their breeding program.


https://www.ofa.org/recommended-tests


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## EllieMay

Update.... except it’s not really very informative... we have been back to the ortho and back to our regular vet who is now consulting with a bulldog specialist... Cinders knee is improving. Her limp is not. The report from the radiologist on two different sets of films was inconclusive. They asked for a couple more shots (which we sent in today ) but gave us no diagnosis. She has many people stumped now. They wouldn’t dare send her into surgery at this point for a knee that’s already improved but we have to make sure that we are not missing something that must be treated now... her exam today went so well that it only added more confusion... Whatever causes her to limp is not painful during manipulation.... so now we again wait on the new radiology report and the conclusion from bulldog specialist consult.


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## bouaboua

EllieMay said:


>


What a cutie ! ! !


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## Yvonne G

EllieMay said:


> Update.... except it’s not really very informative... we have been back to the ortho and back to our regular vet who is now consulting with a bulldog specialist... Cinders knee is improving. Her limp is not. The report from the radiologist on two different sets of films was inconclusive. They asked for a couple more shots (which we sent in today ) but gave us no diagnosis. She has many people stumped now. They wouldn’t dare send her into surgery at this point for a knee that’s already improved but we have to make sure that we are not missing something that must be treated now... her exam today went so well that it only added more confusion... Whatever causes her to limp is not painful during manipulation.... so now we again wait on the new radiology report and the conclusion from bulldog specialist consult.


LOL!!! Dang I love this dog!


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## mark1

did they ever give her something like rimadyl and see if it cleared up the limp ??????


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## EllieMay

mark1 said:


> did they ever give her something like rimadyl and see if it cleared up the limp ??????


She is on Rimadyl now still and has been..... she is slowly improving but they are still not 100% what the problem is. We know she had the luxating patella but that is vastly improved.. There have been a lot of possibilities ruled out for various reasons and Her case is now being reviewed by a bulldog specialist in Texarkana.. I should hear back the middle of next week on that.. I’m starting to believe that it must be related to the massive growth spurt that happened within 2months... no other dog breed that I can think of gains that much weight in such a short amount of time... it’s bound to stress your joints and bones. She should be leveling out now and I have her on many supplements.. she is not overweight at all, just very much the bulldog shape. I am praying that this is all it is..


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## Pistachio's Pamperer

Still keeping u in my thoughts. We send dog hugs!
-Meg
(My son and one of our monsters.)


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## Blackdog1714

EllieMay said:


> She is on Rimadyl now still and has been..... she is slowly improving but they are still not 100% what the problem is. We know she had the luxating patella but that is vastly improved.. There have been a lot of possibilities ruled out for various reasons and Her case is now being reviewed by a bulldog specialist in Texarkana.. I should hear back the middle of next week on that.. I’m starting to believe that it must be related to the massive growth spurt that happened within 2months... no other dog breed that I can think of gains that much weight in such a short amount of time... it’s bound to stress your joints and bones. She should be leveling out now and I have her on many supplements.. she is not overweight at all, just very much the bulldog shape. I am praying that this is all it is..


Silly, but do you add or find Vitamin C included in his food. I have given my dogs Vitamin C supplements as puppies and adult females over the years and have wonderful hips and joints (Toy, Medium and Giant breeds). Dogs produce their vitamin C via the liver, but he may be outgrowing the amount produced. I have been using Dogzymes Cran-Tri-C Cranberry and Vitamin C Blend 1418mg per Teaspoon for the last year and I really like it. Before I was giving everybody Vitamin C supplements in their food and all girls have been on a cranberry regiment for years (Really bad UTI in a Chow that was even on prescription food for a while) to fight UTI's. The CRan-TRi-C lets me get the cranberry and the vitamin c at the same time, I know it can be done cheaper, but they are very reliable and it saves me a ton of time. My two cents!


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## Blackdog1714

SEND me a PM if you would like me to mail you an ounce to try!


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## EllieMay

Pistachio's Pamperer said:


> Still keeping u in my thoughts. We send dog hugs!
> -Meg
> (My son and one of our monsters.)


Thank you! Looks like you’ve got a good crew! Dog hugs are the best ;-)


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## EllieMay

Blackdog1714 said:


> Silly, but do you add or find Vitamin C included in his food. I have given my dogs Vitamin C supplements as puppies and adult females over the years and have wonderful hips and joints (Toy, Medium and Giant breeds). Dogs produce their vitamin C via the liver, but he may be outgrowing the amount produced. I have been using Dogzymes Cran-Tri-C Cranberry and Vitamin C Blend 1418mg per Teaspoon for the last year and I really like it. Before I was giving everybody Vitamin C supplements in their food and all girls have been on a cranberry regiment for years (Really bad UTI in a Chow that was even on prescription food for a while) to fight UTI's. The CRan-TRi-C lets me get the cranberry and the vitamin c at the same time, I know it can be done cheaper, but they are very reliable and it saves me a ton of time. My two cents!


Two cents is often what you need to make the whole dollar;-) 
I have her on the nu-vet supplement and salmon oil... I had planned on using the cod instead of salmon but haven’t found that locally yet.. I’ll check out the cran-tri-c..


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## Blackdog1714

EllieMay said:


> Two cents is often what you need to make the whole dollar;-)
> I have her on the nu-vet supplement and salmon oil... I had planned on using the cod instead of salmon but haven’t found that locally yet.. I’ll check out the cran-tri-c..


Excellent! WHen I got him Jackson at 5 months (Newfie) the VET said he had loose hips. THey X-rayed fine, but felt loose to her. After being on the vitamin supplement for 6 months he tightened up. Mayeb the Vitamin C maybe not, but given how important it can be in growth I would not take a chance. Plus with the water therapy Cinder should turn out fine!


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## mark1

when she doesn't get rimadyl does it still look better ? they x-rayed her spine ?


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## EllieMay

mark1 said:


> when she doesn't get rimadyl does it still look better ? they x-rayed her spine ?


Yes... we sent everything to a bulldog specialist in Texarkana... have been waiting to hear...


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## EllieMay

So we finally heard back from the Bulldog Vet... He reassured me that Cinder does not have any issues with her hips, bones, or tears in ligaments... he said that the problem stems from the luxating patella.. he said there was significant changes in the growth plates on her films that were only 10 days apart... not bad changes, just so much that everything can’t keep up..he wouldn’t even consider surgery for it for at least a year.. at which point time will have accelerated or reduced / possibly fixed the problem..since she has been showing improvement, he said it’s likely that we can strengthen her ligaments with exercise to hold the patella in place. ( I think we already have) ...


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## Yvonne G

EllieMay said:


> So we finally heard back from the Bulldog Vet... He reassured me that Cinder does not have any issues with her hips, bones, or tears in ligaments... he said that the problem stems from the luxating patella.. he said there was significant changes in the growth plates on her films that were only 10 days apart... not bad changes, just so much that everything can’t keep up..he wouldn’t even consider surgery for it for at least a year.. at which point time will have accelerated or reduced / possibly fixed the problem..since she has been showing improvement, he said it’s likely that we can strengthen her ligaments with exercise to hold the patella in place. ( I think we already have) ...


I can't get over how much she's grown in such a short time!


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## mark1

EllieMay said:


> So we finally heard back from the Bulldog Vet... He reassured me that Cinder does not have any issues with her hips, bones, or tears in ligaments... he said that the problem stems from the luxating patella.. he said there was significant changes in the growth plates on her films that were only 10 days apart... not bad changes, just so much that everything can’t keep up..he wouldn’t even consider surgery for it for at least a year.. at which point time will have accelerated or reduced / possibly fixed the problem..since she has been showing improvement, he said it’s likely that we can strengthen her ligaments with exercise to hold the patella in place. ( I think we already have) ...



walks , hills and upstairs is great exercise for dogs with hindquarter problems …… controlled walks , torque and high impact are bad ...…...…. the more the knee comes out , the easier and more often it will ……. at least that's been my anecdotal experience …....


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## EllieMay

mark1 said:


> walks , hills and upstairs is great exercise for dogs with hindquarter problems …… controlled walks , torque and high impact are bad ...…...…. the more the knee comes out , the easier and more often it will ……. at least that's been my anecdotal experience …....


Swimming swimming and more swimming... it will be helpful when the weather stays warm and I can utilize the pool or lake with her life jacket... she so smart that she’s know how to let the water out of the tub... I even switched the plug to a generic stopper and she will stick her head under and pull that out too!!!


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## Maro2Bear

EllieMay said:


> So we finally heard back from the Bulldog Vet... He reassured me that Cinder does not have any issues with her hips, bones, or tears in ligaments... he said that the problem stems from the luxating patella.. he said there was significant changes in the growth plates on her films that were only 10 days apart... not bad changes, just so much that everything can’t keep up..he wouldn’t even consider surgery for it for at least a year.. at which point time will have accelerated or reduced / possibly fixed the problem..since she has been showing improvement, he said it’s likely that we can strengthen her ligaments with exercise to hold the patella in place. ( I think we already have) ...



Wow! Your kids hair got a lot longer! ?


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## EllieMay

Maro2Bear said:


> Wow! Your kids hair got a lot longer! ?


Lol!!!!! Guys always get the best hair and eyelashes & he’s no exception! We keep the hair cutting place in business... he had always liked it short until he made best friends with another little boy who wears it a bit long... my speculations are just that it’s neat n clean I suppose;-)


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## mark1

glad to hear it's not much of nothing …….. I've been conditioning and rehabbing dogs forever , and before that the guy that raised me conditioned dogs ….. a dogs legs are meant to carry their weight , there is no exercise for them better than walking , except trotting , and that is not always possible with dogs with orthopedic problems , walking is , if it's not , been my experience the end is near …...... I've got a lifetime dealing with dog orthopedic problems , and brachycephalic syndrome, exactly the problems English bulldogs face ……. selecting , breeding and exercising those issues out of my dogs …..if you don't know , pretty much all english bulldogs are dysplastic , same with dogue de Bordeaux , difference is a ddb may weigh 170lbs …….. big dogs die from going lame often , they go lame because their rear legs won't hold their weight , they get weak from lack of use , a dysplastic dog will compensate by shifting more weight to the front , which leads to further atrophy of the rear , which exacerbates the problem which is a fatal problem……..hills and stairs prevent them from shifting the weight off the rear ….. impact is important to the health of their joints , just not excessive impact ..……. I've had some pretty dysplastic dogs , never had one die from going lame …… exercising dogs with orthopedic issues , getting them better rather than worse , and maintaining them is a skill , common sense and experience ………….. swimming is safe , an English bulldog is not a large dog , don't know how often they are put down for being lame ? but dogs like I've had get put down for lame often …… 2nd from bottom x-ray is the 12yr old dogue pictured above it , the x-ray was him at 2yrs , that is a moderately dysplastic hip , the reason there is no OA was the way he was raised , at that time many vets viewed hd as a death sentence , managed properly , in 30yrs raising those dog it's not been my experience ……. the bottom x-ray is what I was getting after 8 generation ……….. hand walking was a big deal ……….


















































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## EllieMay

mark1 said:


> glad to hear it's not much of nothing …….. I've been conditioning and rehabbing dogs forever , and before that the guy that raised me conditioned dogs ….. a dogs legs are meant to carry their weight , there is no exercise for them better than walking , except trotting , and that is not always possible with dogs with orthopedic problems , walking is , if it's not , been my experience the end is near …...... I've got a lifetime dealing with dog orthopedic problems , and brachycephalic syndrome, exactly the problems English bulldogs face ……. selecting , breeding and exercising those issues out of my dogs …..if you don't know , pretty much all english bulldogs are dysplastic , same with dogue de Bordeaux , difference is a ddb may weigh 170lbs …….. big dogs die from going lame often , they go lame because their rear legs won't hold their weight , they get weak from lack of use , a dysplastic dog will compensate by shifting more weight to the front , which leads to further atrophy of the rear , which exacerbates the problem which is a fatal problem……..hills and stairs prevent them from shifting the weight off the rear ….. impact is important to the health of their joints , just not excessive impact ..……. I've had some pretty dysplastic dogs , never had one die from going lame …… exercising dogs with orthopedic issues , getting them better rather than worse , and maintaining them is a skill , common sense and experience ………….. swimming is safe , an English bulldog is not a large dog , don't know how often they are put down for being lame ? but dogs like I've had get put down for lame often …… 2nd from bottom x-ray is the 12yr old dogue pictured above it , the x-ray was him at 2yrs , that is a moderately dysplastic hip , the reason there is no OA was the way he was raised , at that time many vets viewed hd as a death sentence , managed properly , in 30yrs raising those dog it's not been my experience ……. the bottom x-ray is what I was getting after 8 generation ……….. hand walking was a big deal ……….
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Wow! Those are gorgeous dogs! Pretty amazing difference. I have never had a lot of faith in most vets . I certainly don’t think I’m smarter than anyone, but sometimes a little common sense goes along way... most vets these days are overworked and tend to look for the most common diagnosis or most expensive solution...I don’t think they put the EB’s down for lameness so much as rushing in to do total hip replacements or other surgeries that probably are not always necessary.. also, the breeders these days are in it for the money and not the health of the dogs... they are spreading and increasing more genetic problems instead of breeding them out.. it’s sad! I really appreciate your knowledge and advice... Thank you! 

When Cinder was smaller, she would get congested very easily and it would build up and turn into a bacterial infection... her vet at the time ( no longer) recommended a soft Palette surgery... I fixed the problem with a half of teaspoon of lemon juice every time she’d get all congested... after a week, she learned to clear her nose \ throat... it has never happened again... I read the tip on a bull dog forum but no vet in the world would have told me that ... just goes to show......


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