# Tortoise Nightmares??



## alex_ornelas (Mar 15, 2015)

At 10 pm as I was just about to lay in bed to sleep I check on Oliver and he's fast asleep. Not 10 min later I hear him make a lot of noise and what sounded like a crash. In worry I check to make sure he's ok and he had ran across his encloser and into to the corner. I took him out make sure he was ok. Normally when I go to let his head he put it out. Instead as soon as my fingers go close to even his leg. He pulled his whole body in. He's an only tortoise. And there's nothing in his encloser to spook him like that. Any ideas


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## ZEROPILOT (Mar 15, 2015)

Do the lights all turn off at once? Is he used to it?


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## alex_ornelas (Mar 15, 2015)

Yes and yes. The lights where already off


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## smarch (Mar 16, 2015)

is it possible something near his enclosure made a noise that would have spooked him awake?


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## Jodie (Mar 16, 2015)

Dogs have dreams so why not tortoises? I have never witnessed anything indicating my tortoises are dreaming, but it could be possible. Is he on a heating pad thet maybe got too hot?


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## ZEROPILOT (Mar 16, 2015)

Man. Mine wouldn't run for ANY reason.


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## leigti (Mar 16, 2015)

Jodie said:


> Dogs have dreams so why not tortoises? I have never witnessed anything indicating my tortoises are dreaming, but it could be possible. Is he on a heating pad thet maybe got too hot?


I agree, as far as I know there's nothing that proves they don't dream. So for now I will assume that they do  scientists are continually finding out more and more about animals and the complexity of them. So I'm not ruling it out at all.


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## Tidgy's Dad (Mar 16, 2015)

Can't rule it out, but they probably don't dream. 
Aristotle first realized that higher mammals dream,such as cats and dogs but dreaming has been evidenced in rats, mice and even some birds, such as zebra finches have been studied practicing their songs in their sleep!
However, tortoises do not exhibit any dream pattern sleep, they don't enter REM sleep , not even REM A, sleep that animals other than humans dream in. Their is no sleep paralysis in tortoises, which occurs in some animals during dream state. 
Tortoise twitching of limbs in sleep seems to be part of the breathing process or simply making themselves comfortable. 
they simply don't have the intellectual capacity for dream state, so probably they don't and something startled your tortoise in the real world.
No, we can't actually prove they don't dream, it's scientifically very difficult or impossible to prove something doesn't exist, but there is no evidence at all that they do. it's a nice anthropomorphic thought and if it makes you happy, that's good, but they probably don't dream.
Doesn't make them less lovable though, as my bleary eyed girl in the morning is just so adorable.


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## WithLisa (Mar 16, 2015)

I'm sure he woke up when you checked on him, even if he didn't react because he is used to it. 
If it was not even 10 minutes later, I guess he wasn't fast asleep and it was something else that scared him.


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## Tom (Mar 16, 2015)

Any animal messing with them in the dark is cause for terror. This would explain why he kept his head in.

Why he bolted across the cage, I do not know. Maybe your tortoise sees dead people...


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## Tidgy's Dad (Mar 16, 2015)

Oh good grief! unless there are actually dead people in the house, which one imagines is pretty unlikely, he won't be seeing ghosts.
Tortoises have zero imagination, a very human trait.
Yes, I know you're joking Tom.
Perhaps he is in training for the tortoise olympics. Tidgy is representing Morocco in the Relay and climbing impossible objects competitions.


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## alex_ornelas (Mar 17, 2015)

There's no heat pad. lol and I hope there's no ghost in my house the ghost busters I think have retired from hunting ghosts


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## Yvonne G (Mar 17, 2015)

Maybe a mouse or rat started to chew on him.


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## smarch (Mar 17, 2015)

While dreams may not be possible or probable I personally wonder if they have the capacity to experience things like flashbacks. I mean they certainly have the capability to be stressed, and have at least some memory capacities... so in cases like my Franklin I sometimes wonder if he remembers the shipping here and ending up in a pet store. I think it is reasonably possible, but then again I don't study reptile psychology lol.


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## Tidgy's Dad (Mar 17, 2015)

poor Alex, first it was a ghost incursion, now the suggestion is an infestation of mice or rats! 
No wonder your tortoise is afraid, so would I be. What next, burglars?


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## smarch (Mar 17, 2015)

Tidgy's Dad said:


> poor Alex, first it was a ghost incursion, now the suggestion is an infestation of mice or rats!
> No wonder your tortoise is afraid, so would I be. What next, burglars?


 well that's why we all have tortoises right? Guard torts!... no? am I thinking of another animal?


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## leigti (Mar 17, 2015)

Tidgy's Dad said:


> Can't rule it out, but they probably don't dream.
> Aristotle first realized that higher mammals dream,such as cats and dogs but dreaming has been evidenced in rats, mice and even some birds, such as zebra finches have been studied practicing their songs in their sleep!
> However, tortoises do not exhibit any dream pattern sleep, they don't enter REM sleep , not even REM A, sleep that animals other than humans dream in. Their is no sleep paralysis in tortoises, which occurs in some animals during dream state.
> Tortoise twitching of limbs in sleep seems to be part of the breathing process or simply making themselves comfortable.
> ...


Yes, my anthropomorphic thoughts make me happy. Many traits in an animals that used to be called anthropomorphic have been proven to exist. So I'm going to go with it for now  this does conflict a little bit with my scientific mind but I don't care. 
As far as why the tortoise suddenly ran across his enclosure, could there have been a bug that him? I fed my box turtle a meal worm that must have bitten her because when she grabbed it she all of a sudden startled and ran backwards, yes backwards very quickly. So the only thing I could come up with is that she bit the tail end of the meal worms and the head and bit her. She made quick order of that warm though so that's good. And I never fed her that big of a worm again.


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## Tidgy's Dad (Mar 17, 2015)

Is Franklin a good guard tortoise? Does he dream ? Is he afraid of ghosts, rats, mice or gets bitten by meal worms? Is he entered for the tortoise Olympics? I think a thief would probably steal Tidgy cos she's so beautiful. Don't think she dreams though.


smarch said:


> well that's why we all have tortoises right? Guard torts!... no? am I thinking of another animal?


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## smarch (Mar 17, 2015)

Tidgy's Dad said:


> Is Franklin a good guard tortoise? Does he dream ? Is he afraid of ghosts, rats, mice or gets bitten by meal worms? Is he entered for the tortoise Olympics? I think a thief would probably steal Tidgy cos she's so beautiful. Don't think she dreams though.


 He'd probably be a terrible guard tortoise, he hears noise and comes out all curious looking for food. Does he dream... sure... does he really, no idea but I put human emotions to him  He certainly deoesnt like those little flies that sometimes come from mulch, he used to flip over his large water dish and contraption that attempted to prevent flipping it to hide under it when they showed up. 
No question he's win the Olympics for vertical wall climb, he's an expert!


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## Tidgy's Dad (Mar 17, 2015)

Tidgy's Dad said:


> poor Alex, first it was a ghost incursion, now the suggestion is an infestation of mice or rats!
> No wonder your tortoise is afraid, so would I be. What next, burglars?


No, meal worms apparently. Your house must be purged Alex, you don't just need ghost-busters, who are reforming as a women's group apparently, so you may be able to call them soon, but pest control too. Goodness gracious!


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## Tidgy's Dad (Mar 17, 2015)

leigti said:


> Yes, my anthropomorphic thoughts make me happy. Many traits in an animals that used to be called anthropomorphic have been proven to exist. So I'm going to go with it for now  this does conflict a little bit with my scientific mind but I don't care.
> As far as why the tortoise suddenly ran across his enclosure, could there have been a bug that him? I fed my box turtle a meal worm that must have bitten her because when she grabbed it she all of a sudden startled and ran backwards, yes backwards very quickly. So the only thing I could come up with is that she bit the tail end of the meal worms and the head and bit her. She made quick order of that warm though so that's good. And I never fed her that big of a worm again.


You are happy. that is good. And it doesn't really contradict a scientific mind, for as a scientist one should keep an open mind. It is not impossible that tortoises dream, if very unlikely. Therefore it is possible and therefore perhaps the tortoise in question DID have a nightmare. I am also always fighting against my own anthropomorphism. And often I lose. Which is fine. I love my tortoise whether she dreams or not.


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## alex_ornelas (Mar 17, 2015)

Well if he's getting spooked I don't have. Good guard tortoise xD hope u all have better security than I do


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## rocket the tortoise (Jun 2, 2016)

My tortoise just snores


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## CathyNed (Jun 2, 2016)

alex_ornelas said:


> At 10 pm as I was just about to lay in bed to sleep I check on Oliver and he's fast asleep. Not 10 min later I hear him make a lot of noise and what sounded like a crash. In worry I check to make sure he's ok and he had ran across his encloser and into to the corner. I took him out make sure he was ok. Normally when I go to let his head he put it out. Instead as soon as my fingers go close to even his leg. He pulled his whole body in. He's an only tortoise. And there's nothing in his encloser to spook him like that. Any ideas


"He's an only tortoise"
This line made me laugh so much. How cute....


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## dmmj (Jun 2, 2016)

am I a man dreaming I am a butterfly or am I a butterfly dreaming I am a man


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## Gillian M (Jun 2, 2016)

No proof that torts dream/do not dream. However, like other animals, they do have a brain and a nervous system, therefore I would not be surprised to know that they do dream.


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## jockma (Jun 2, 2016)

Mine does something that looks like sleepwalking.

Can't really describe it...he mostly uses his front limbs. If he's on his ramp he usually dangles his limbs off the side so he just wiggles his front limbs without really moving, sticking out his hind legs from time to time. Eyes closed, not reacting to me waving my hands around him, head mostly in his shell. Stops and goes. If he's on the substrate he'll drag himself into a wall and keep going on against the wall.

I can't tell if he's somewhat awake or not. I've read similar stories.

I just think it's fun that he mostly uses his front limbs to propel himself and just extends his hind legs from time to time. It looks like when he's trying to escape the soak tub. It'd be funny if they do have dreams and he's dreaming about getting out of the soak tub. Not really, since that would be more of a nightmare.


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