# Petsmart Animal Cruelty ***WARNING*** maybe be disturbing



## PucklesðŸ¢ (Jul 24, 2013)

We all know, that petsmart or petco, isn't the "Smartest" idea, for purchasing a furry, or scaley friend. I'm not sure if watching this video encourages others to rescue them, or to shop somewhere else. I found a animal forum online. This person bought a bird by the sounds of it, and was not pleased about the "Sudden death"
If you want to skip to the video here is the link (I DO NOT OWN THE WEBSITE)
http://www.petsmartcruelty.com/video.asp
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"I think this is the best place for this. This was a post from a friend on another form. Her new budgie, max, who she got from petco recently died after an extremely heartfelt fight. It was the sweetest bird, and she was just hoping that one day, 10 years from now, she could look at him and say "Remember when I first got you and you almost died?" Petco has made sure that she can never do that. She told them and they offered to take him back and give her a new bird. She obviously said no, knowing he would be thrown away. She threatened to sue them if they did not pay for his vet care. They agreed and she got it in writing. The bill was for over $2,000. Then, after he died they said that they never agreed to pay for his vet care and that she could get a refund to cut a deal. First, he cost $12. Second, that shows how that to them he is just as important as a book. People need to know about this."


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## Cowboy_Ken (Jul 24, 2013)

This is why, when my mother offered to purchase a pet store for me, I declined. The sad reality is that the living things need to be put in the category of merchandise and this makes it tough if you care about critters.


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## alysciaingram (Jul 24, 2013)

I couldn't even watch that whole video. Ugh.


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## Baoh (Jul 24, 2013)

$2000? 

"We can rebuild him. We have the technology." 

Cyborgerigar!

*superhuman sound effect*


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## AustinASU (Jul 24, 2013)

That sickens me!!!! The need to only sell pet supplies, no animals whatsoever, leave it to the private breeders


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## theelectraco (Jul 24, 2013)

Those videos are really old and PetSmart doesn't use Rainbow as a vendor, haven't In a few years actually.


0.1.0 Dachshund
0.0.1 Redfoot
1.0.0 Greek


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## theTurtleRoom (Jul 25, 2013)

One will also find, that the methods of keeping and the quality of keeping change from store to store. The quality of keeping really depends on the management.


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## Jacqui (Jul 25, 2013)

AustinASU said:


> That sickens me!!!! The need to only sell pet supplies, no animals whatsoever, leave it to the private breeders



Being a private breeder does not automatically make the care better, the animals healthier, or promises kept. Each store or breeder is different, some care and some don't.


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## Teodora'sDAD (Jul 25, 2013)

That made me sick!.. I used to breed birds and to see how they handled them is sickening.


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## IBeenEasy (Jul 25, 2013)

i despise petco and petsmart ...even if those vids are old..we all know that this is still going on


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## Baoh (Jul 25, 2013)

When people say "we all know", it gives me pause.


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## IBeenEasy (Jul 25, 2013)

Baoh said:


> When people say "we all know", it gives me pause.



?


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## PucklesðŸ¢ (Jul 25, 2013)

Regardless, of the age of the video, The point of it is that petsmart and petco haven't, Changed much since then. And hopefully encourages New tortoise owners, to go to different pet stores, that actually care more of the animal then the benefits they recieve. I worked in petsmart in 2008, The store I was working in wasn't nearly as careless as this one, but surely enough I could tell the animals were tortured!


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## Laura (Jul 25, 2013)

anything PETA puts out I have to keep an open mind.. not that that stuff didn't happen.. but PETA is know for putting a whole different twist to things.. They have done some good...
but 'rescuing' animals and then killing them, themselves.....so they don't end up as 'pets'.... tossing them in garbage cans... I find them very hard to trust...


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## CourtneyG (Jul 25, 2013)

A lot of these videos are just way out of content and such and can never be fully trusted, and they are old and things do change with times despite the common belief.


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## abclements (Jul 25, 2013)

I agree with Laura and Courtney... while this is a very sad video, peta does like to over exaggerate everything when it comes to animal mistreatment. They take these kind of videos and portray them in the worst way possible And then claim that, "every large scale animal producer does this to their animals." The major problem is that petsmart sees their animals as merchandise... so they treat it as such (spend as little on maintenance, to make the highest profit margin possible) and because of this they can undercut private breeders that sell their animals for more, thus perpetuating the cycle that is large scale animal sales. I'm not trying to say what they do is right, but you can bet that its not usually as bad as the video portrays, and without everybody boycotting large scale animal stores, nothing is really going to change.... sorry for the ramble... I just don't think it's necessarily fair to demonize these stores like we do here on tfo. Petsmart as a whole is not evil and has and will provide many people with little furred and feathered friends that bring great joy to many people.


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## Team Gomberg (Jul 25, 2013)

I finally watched the video. 

This type of treatment goes beyond pet trade. You guys should look into how the majority of chickens, pigs and cows that become food are treated. 

I'm happy for my tortoises. They have good care with me. At least I can control the environment for mine and hopefully share good info so others can provide good care.

Heather
Sent from my Android TFO app


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## Anthony P (Jul 25, 2013)

Jacqui said:


> AustinASU said:
> 
> 
> > That sickens me!!!! The need to only sell pet supplies, no animals whatsoever, leave it to the private breeders
> ...



I think being a private breeder does make the care better the vast majority of the time. The level of husbandry that it takes to get turtles/tortoises to lay fertile eggs, and to get those eggs to hatch, takes more than what most (not all) pet stores provide. I think if you think about this like that, most people here would agree.


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## Jacqui (Jul 25, 2013)

Anthony P said:


> Jacqui said:
> 
> 
> > AustinASU said:
> ...



I have seen too many breeders and read of more who did not take good care of their animals. I am NOT saying all of them, just as I am not saying all Petsmarts are good. There are exceptions and I really dislike folks thinking just because they are buying from a breeder they are going to get a better animal. It's one of those things you have to research and look at all the facts in each and every case. There are a lot of folks who get a pair of tortoises (or just a female) and without knowing anything or doing things the considered the "right way", they get hatchlings. Just as there are folks who do what seems like everything right, who only seem to know failures.


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## russiantortuga (Jul 25, 2013)

That's terrible , I've recently purchased a male Russian tortoise from Pet smart . Good thing he's doing fine ! 

Sent from my SCH-I535 using TortForum mobile app


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## AustinASU (Jul 25, 2013)

What my definition of private breeder means is a breeder who selects and breeds a completely healthy stock and nothing less. Imperfections are taken care of immediately (veterinary care). 

I'm not talking about Breeders....anyone can do that and earn a bad reputation, thats why true breeding is left to the select breeders (private breeders).




Jacqui said:


> Anthony P said:
> 
> 
> > Jacqui said:
> ...


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## terryo (Jul 25, 2013)

abclements said:


> I agree with Laura and Courtney... while this is a very sad video, peta does like to over exaggerate everything when it comes to animal mistreatment. They take these kind of videos and portray them in the worst way possible And then claim that, "every large scale animal producer does this to their animals." The major problem is that petsmart sees their animals as merchandise... so they treat it as such (spend as little on maintenance, to make the highest profit margin possible) and because of this they can undercut private breeders that sell their animals for more, thus perpetuating the cycle that is large scale animal sales. I'm not trying to say what they do is right, but you can bet that *its not usually as bad as the video portrays*, and without everybody boycotting large scale animal stores, nothing is really going to change.... sorry for the ramble... I just don't think it's necessarily fair to demonize these stores like we do here on tfo. Petsmart as a whole is not evil and has and will provide many people with little furred and feathered friends that bring great joy to many people.




You mean to say that the video that I just watched of a rabbet being cut with a dull blade, who was not fully asleep, is not as bad as what I saw with my own eyes? Or that the sick dead birds in the video aren't  as bad as the video portrays? I don't understand what you mean. But I do agree with you....nothing is going to change.


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## Jd3 (Jul 25, 2013)

AustinASU said:


> What my definition of private breeder means is a breeder who selects and breeds a completely healthy stock and nothing less. Imperfections are taken care of immediately (veterinary care).
> 
> I'm not talking about Breeders....anyone can do that and earn a bad reputation, thats why true breeding is left to the select breeders (private breeders).
> 
> ...



Perhaps the term your using is quality breeder or respectable breeder. Maybe "reputable". "Private breeder" doesn't make any sense here. Every puppy mill I've ever seem was "private". But they weren't reputable or quality. 

I've seen plenty of reptile breeders who push crap. Enter the gecko market.... All the pet stores are supplied with CB geckos that are crap. And how many people come here with their first tort looking to breed it. No idea what they are doing. 

By and large, most breeders are self serving.... Not interested In quality but instead quantity and cash. The good ones we see here and other hobbies are really the exception. It might be hard to grasp because we see best case scenarios argued here, but MOST of the, have nothing to do with sites like this. If they did, they wouldn't be breeding at all.


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## abclements (Jul 25, 2013)

*Re: RE: Petsmart Animal Cruelty ***WARNING*** maybe be disturbing*



terryo said:


> You mean to say that the video that I just watched of a rabbet being cut with a dull blade, who was not fully asleep, is not as bad as what I saw with my own eyes? Or that the sick dead birds in the video aren't [/u] as bad as the video portrays? I don't understand what you mean. But I do agree with you....nothing is going to change.



Sorry I should have been clearer. Everything you saw in that video was terrible and in no way am I defending that company. I was really trying to get at the point that this is a worst case. Not every large scale corporation treats their animals as terribly as this one does. That is all I was trying to get at with that part of my comment.


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## terryo (Jul 26, 2013)

What you saw in that video, was NOT the worse case.
Things might have gotten better, but IMHO, there is NO large scale corporation who deals with animal's, using them as merchandise to be sold, that treats them well. All dogs, even in small Mom and Pop stores, come from backyard breeders, or puppy mills. No person, who breeds pure bred dogs in their home, will give them to a store to sell. Ask Candy (a member of this forum) or anyone on here who breeds dogs in their home, if they would give them to a store to sell. There is a place in Brooklyn that sells puppies, among other things, and I've seen tiny Yorkies being brought in, all jammed into crates crying and hyperventilating, with collapsed Trachea's. One was trampled on and dead. If you saw how many Russian Tortoises come in piled one on top of the other tied in socks, you'd cringe. They are left there in the box sometimes for a day or more before being opened. I could go on and on, but it would serve no purpose. I don't know, but I don't think things have changed that much since I was involved, in trying to change things.


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## abclements (Jul 26, 2013)

Ya maybe I just want to believe that this is a worst case scenario... it's too sad to think there are worse ones out there...


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## tortadise (Jul 26, 2013)

The thing with stories like this. Is that they are very one sided and staged to where everything looks terrible and is portrayed evil, inhumane, sickly, etc... but what happens a few seconds after some of those clips? Could be cleaning, could be administering medication from a vet visit few days prior. Could be a realm of more bad things or great things. I worked in a dog kennel for a little while during high school. Let me tell you. if someone came back there first thing in the morning and took photos it would look like a puppy mill. Dogs pooping and peeing in their kennels tearing stuff up. But not 10 minutes after that its all cleaned up new washed bed and good to go. Its all about perception. I am not so quick to judge unless I personally witness the entire scenario at hand.


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## ra94131 (Jul 26, 2013)

I can't stand PETA. Petsmart/Petco are ok, but I really wish they would stick to non-exotics and supplies only. (They could always have an "exotic showcase" store per large market if they are insistent on getting them in the hands of consumers.) It's just too difficult to staff qualified personnel for exotic animals.

There are some absolutely atrocious breeding/importation facilities out there for sure. It seems like (though it might be sheer hope on my part) the big chains have gotten better at avoiding them, but keep in mind that often the breeders/importers hide the deplorable conditions from clients as well as consumers and inspectors.

Pretending like private breeders are any better is ridiculous. The sheer quantities of many animals that are bred yearly is irresponsible in and of itself. And what happens to all the animals when the well meaning small-time breeder loses interest and switches hobbies? (And that happens all the time.) Not to mention the husbandry problems of the ill-informed...


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## russiantortuga (Jul 26, 2013)

Ok so I bought my Russian tortoise from petsmart, the women who was telling me about the tortoise didn't know much about him... I wouldn't buy from them


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## sulcata101 (Aug 7, 2013)

That's beyond cruel... It's practically torture  I couldn't even watch the whole video.


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## Irish (Aug 21, 2013)

russiantortuga said:


> Ok so I bought my Russian tortoise from petsmart, the women who was telling me about the tortoise didn't know much about him... I wouldn't buy from them



So you purchased your tortoise from Petsmart, but you did not buy from them? Which was it?


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## russiantortuga (Aug 23, 2013)

I did, but I wouldn't again.


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## Sulcata_Sandy (Aug 23, 2013)

Petco is still a problem. We treat alot of sick animals from our local Petco. Worst place to buy an animal of any kind. I was rescuing Betta's from then and finally had to quit.


Sandy
.......................................
Oregon Tortoise Rescue


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## Madkins007 (Aug 23, 2013)

I am not going to try to justify some of the actions on the video, but...

This is a reality in the 'industrialized world'. There are equally horrific videos out there on turkey farming, butchering, processing grains, harvesting strawberries, and everything else- even making cars or furniture. In a factory-like setting, 'getting the job done' is Priority #1, 'saving the company money/maximizing profits' is Priority #2. Taking personalized care of the product- whether it is a tortoise or apple pie- is not only not a priority, it is not even really practical. Sadly- stuff like this also happens in places we treat people like factory products- day cares, schools, nursing homes, care institutions, etc.

This is a factory-level breeding facility. When you talk about something like a Russian tortoise, the horror is not a warehouse like this, it is the horrific way it was caught in the wild, packed, shipped, and left stranded in crates for weeks or months with terrible casualty rates. And that applies no matter where you buy the wild caught tortoise from- even a clean neighborhood pet dealer.

'Private' breeder is not an automatic improvement. the movie "Herpers" shows a modest scale snake and lizard breeder with row upon row of big snakes and lizards breeding in little more than shoeboxes and such instead of naturalistic, comfortable, and healthy habitats. It is just 'unprofitable' to do it other ways.

It IS sad, and horrible, and unjust... but it is not really PetCo or PetSmart's fault, or the fault of the factory. It is our consumer society that is the problem. We DEMAND cheap hamsters. cheap frozen dinners, cheap TVs, cheap education, and so on... the companies have just done what they needed to so it can happen.*

(*- OK, and the subsector of 'us' that actually owns stock in these companies is a bit more to blame than we are, placing massive pressure on companies to ALWAYS turn a bigger and bigger profit, forcing them to get more and more impersonal about it.)

...........................

And this does not change my basic point, but remember, this IS a propaganda video and hours and hours of film were carefully edited to the very short bit that was presented. We don't know what the guy doing the surgery's credentials are, or how this surgery turned out. We don't know what happened to the animals she claimed were tossed out. The small rodent being stomped on looked nasty, but could have been an accident, or a bad day that the guy got reamed for.

All you have to do is to watch any of the reedited movie trailers that make things like Halloween seem like a love story to see the power of a little editing.


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## Team Gomberg (Aug 24, 2013)

Madkins007 said:


> All you have to do is to watch any of the reedited movie trailers that make things like Halloween seem like a love story to see the power of a little editing.



wow...this sure led me on an adventure. I had no clue this stuff was out there. Editing sure is something!!


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## Sulcata_Sandy (Aug 24, 2013)

I finally watched the video. First problem: PETA. There are plenty of well-meaning people that volunteer with PETA, but the majority are clueless over-zealots that take break the law and do more harm than good.

Example: Rarely an issue these days, but about 10 years ago PETA would show up at AKC dog shows and performance events and try to tell us we were being cruel, torturing dogs and "making" them show for us. (Your typical show dog is very spoiled, happy and is a member of the family...be it breeder, owner or handler...my dogs actually pout if the DON'T get to show!!!).
PETA volunteers would sneak into our setups, even break into motor homes, and "set them free". Meaning a dog that was happily sleeping in his crate with his bone, bed toys and dinner, is now running loose in an unfamiliar fairground, scared, looking for his people, and potentially in danger of being hit by a car on a nearby highway! How on earth is that ethical and kind?????? I know of one dog that was killed. So I have a very low opinion of PETA....and padlocks for my crates if I need to leave my dogs unattended.

While I believe the video footage is legit, its an over representation of the badness that happens. While I do not agree with the housing and breeding techniques, this is how its done all over, and it will never be stopped. All we can do is educate the public and push for legislation that prohibits the sale of animals at Pet Stores.

Adopt a rescue or find an ethical breeder.


Sandy
.......................................
Oregon Tortoise Rescue


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## Irish (Aug 28, 2013)

russiantortuga said:


> I did, but I wouldn't again.



Why? I am not judging, just curious. I have had two good tort purchases despite the employees not knowing anything about them.


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## Sulcata_Sandy (Aug 29, 2013)

The primary reason I would never buy a tortoise from a pet store is because there are thousands of unwanted torts that desperately need homes for numerous reasons (divorce, moving, kid got sick of it, etc etc). Why propagate the bad mass breeding practices when you can get a free one? Or even as I did I adopted one from a craigslist add and got a very well socialized Greek with about $500 worth of equipment for $100. I'm happy, the girl who sold him to me has money for college, and I didn't feed into the system. It's all supply and demand. If people stop buying from stores, the mass breeders will have no market. 
In most cases buying a pet from a pet store will be a pleasant and rewarding experience. This is just food for thought.
I will only buy from family stores. I will not support a mass, conglomerate retail store. It will cost me a few dollars extra but I'm supporting a local family and the local economy 100%, vs stuffing the pockets of the executives that probably don't even know how to SPELL Tortoise!!! LOL



Sandy
.......................................
Oregon Tortoise Rescue


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## hilonesome (Sep 19, 2013)

See pet stores in general can be a good or bad thing, I have seen both. I want a pet store, not your common run of the mill let's order animals in bulk sell them and not care. I want a place where animal lovers can go, get advice learn about the animals they care about. I would NOT sell pups but would adopt them out from the local shelter, or for rescue pups. I would take in animals who needed new homes and rehome them however most of my items would not be animals but supplies. I would also hold classes and have experts come in to teach classes on animal husbandry and care. That has been my dream forever, a place where if you did get an animal, you would know flat out what it would take to care for that animal, and a contract would state he/she would be returned. Guess sort of a rescue


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## Saleama (Sep 19, 2013)

Hard to not help the particular animal that happens to be at the store right now because they will simply get another one to sell. I rescued my Russians from a "Tortoise rescue" that was no such thing. They are withdrawn and extremly shy. One of them gets extremely upset when I have to move him or touch him in any way. I guess what I am saying is there are many senarios where animals are mistreated and if we don't act on those based on the assumption that the person or store will continue doing it because there is a profit, then we can not make a difference to THAT animal and thus are condeming him or her to be the sacrafice for those following.


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## reatrocity (Sep 21, 2013)

Ah Sal, that breaks my heart. When I went to Petsmart and saw the Russian tortoise there, they looked so sad. Just sleeping, not moving... With pellets for food. I don't even have a tortoise yet and I know it's not good for them. I did have trouble choosing to get a tortoise, because I eat a plant-based diet and am very strict on animal welfare. However, I think having animals is good for the animals and good for us. It's a mutual relationship. I would never buy a dog at a petstore, but for something like a tortoise, in my area, they don't really adopt those out. Which is good, hopefully that means they are loved. 

Thankfully with sites like these making the right decision is much easier, the important thing to do is to support a place where the animal is bred and taken care of with love, and doing the same once it's in your home as well. So heartbreaking to see that video.


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## PucklesðŸ¢ (Sep 30, 2013)

I couldn't disagree more, petsmart has not if at all gotten any better. Not that long ago corporate decided to stop soaking geckos, and lizards. When lizards don't get soaked their skin doesn't soften, and eventually the skin can cut off circulation in the toes. Also, remember the too perfectly alright iguanas found in petco'a dumpster. Just because one petsmart is better than the other does not mean the pet world is getting healthier! Reptiles don't show pain like mammals, but that doesn't mean they don't feel it.


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## wellington (Sep 30, 2013)

hilonesome said:


> See pet stores in general can be a good or bad thing, I have seen both. I want a pet store, not your common run of the mill let's order animals in bulk sell them and not care. I want a place where animal lovers can go, get advice learn about the animals they care about. I would NOT sell pups but would adopt them out from the local shelter, or for rescue pups. I would take in animals who needed new homes and rehome them however most of my items would not be animals but supplies. I would also hold classes and have experts come in to teach classes on animal husbandry and care. That has been my dream forever, a place where if you did get an animal, you would know flat out what it would take to care for that animal, and a contract would state he/she would be returned. Guess sort of a rescue



Keep reaching for that dream until you get it. Then, open one up in every state, city, possible. Put the others that don't care out of business. I would love to visit and support your kind of pet store


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## ILoveTortoises2 (Sep 30, 2013)

People can say this doesn't happen anymore but it is hard to believe it doesn't. I bought a bird from there about a year ago and it ended up dieing not even a week later. This video may be from years down the road and PetSmart could of made changes BUT I don't think they made a lot of changes. I seen that POOR rabbit STILL up while the guy is doing surgery on him THEN wipes him down the a Clorox wipe... OMG that is just HORRIBLE. This is WRONG in SOOOOOO many ways. How heartbreakin to see these evil people doing this to these animals.
Now this isn't showing people not to buy tortoises. This is to show everyone not to buy ANY ANIMALS from them at all. Even with a private breeder they can be mis treated. You just have to do your research before you go buying the animal you want. Make sure they have a GREAT reference to back them up too... I am just sicken by watching that video. Even though I seen this years ago it feels like I just watched it for the first time again. It is so sad.


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## PucklesðŸ¢ (Oct 8, 2013)

ILoveTortoises2 said:


> People can say this doesn't happen anymore but it is hard to believe it doesn't. I bought a bird from there about a year ago and it ended up dieing not even a week later. This video may be from years down the road and PetSmart could of made changes BUT I don't think they made a lot of changes. I seen that POOR rabbit STILL up while the guy is doing surgery on him THEN wipes him down the a Clorox wipe... OMG that is just HORRIBLE. This is WRONG in SOOOOOO many ways. How heartbreakin to see these evil people doing this to these animals.
> Now this isn't showing people not to buy tortoises. This is to show everyone not to buy ANY ANIMALS from them at all. Even with a private breeder they can be mis treated. You just have to do your research before you go buying the animal you want. Make sure they have a GREAT reference to back them up too... I am just sicken by watching that video. Even though I seen this years ago it feels like I just watched it for the first time again. It is so sad.



I 100% agree! And even petsmart gets animals from private breeders that can still get WC animals instead of a CB.


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## oliviaTORTOISE (Oct 31, 2013)

OH NO! I purchased my baby from Petsmart!!!!! She was kept in a very small glass tank with another tortoise...... BUT she is doing fine and nothing is wrong with her!!! [TURTLE][TURTLE][TURTLE][TURTLE]


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## Sulcata_Sandy (Oct 31, 2013)

oliviaTORTOISE said:


> OH NO! I purchased my baby from Petsmart!!!!! She was kept in a very small glass tank with another tortoise...... BUT she is doing fine and nothing is wrong with her!!! [TURTLE][TURTLE][TURTLE][TURTLE]



What species did you get?


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## PucklesðŸ¢ (Oct 31, 2013)

oliviaTORTOISE said:


> OH NO! I purchased my baby from Petsmart!!!!! She was kept in a very small glass tank with another tortoise...... BUT she is doing fine and nothing is wrong with her!!! [TURTLE][TURTLE][TURTLE][TURTLE]



If your tortoise looks fine, and acts fine...it probably is fine, for now atleast because tortoises can be very sneaky with their illnesses so it is suggested to give her yearly checkups with a "Reptile" vet if you have one. This topic is about "Abuse" and lack of knowledge that is in a lot of petsmart and petco associates (not all of them) but most tortoises from those kinds of places are "Wild" so they may not be as healthy as a captive tortoise, there's nothing wrong with wild caught tortoises ( well maybe a little bit) but they can be more harder to tame and may carry worms or parasites (This goes for all animals!) but like I said give your tortoise a exam sometime in the next year or two for parasites, a quick checkup with a vet shouldn't be too costly but unless they find something expect to pay a price  nice to meet you.


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## tjarksd (Nov 1, 2013)

I'm always mixed on stuff like this. I grew up in rural Iowa and anywhere you have large numbers of animals you have loss. Whether it's a farm environment or a breeding facility. 

There are definite cases of cruelty in that video...stepping on the hamster, neglect, and a lack of veterinary care. 

But as far as the rabbits being raised on 1/2" x 1" wire...it's perfectly standard. Attend any state or American Rabbit Breeders Association (ARBA) sanctioned show or convention... At home we usually threw in chunks of boards or drywall, for additional footing, and to give the rabbits something to chew on. 

As far as discarding or the sick or dead animals...once again it's in context. If someone is breeding rabbits, guinea pigs, mice, or rats for snake food...what do you think they do with sick or possibly diseased livestock? They're not going to leave it in with the rest of their stock to possibly infect it, they're not going to feed it to their healthy snake or monitor, and I'm guessing they're not going to take a food item to a vet for care. Hopefully it will be dispatched as humanely as possible, frozen, and discarded on trash day.

The rabbit being neutered...uhmmm...I'm not a vet, but I've heard many rabbit squeal in pain over the years. That rabbit wasn't "screaming"...and you'd know it if it was. I'd fault them for the dull blade, but I'd go with the leg kicking being just a reflex action of the muscle.

I don't like large wholesale environments and breeding facilities for pets. I don't condone animal cruelty in any form. But...I have a hard time judging someone else from an obviously slanted view that already has their own set agenda.


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## tjarksd (Nov 1, 2013)

The two Russians I adopted originally came from a local Petsmart. I found them through a Help! ad on craigslist... Both are doing well. That being said...I probably wouldn't buy a tortoise from Petsmart either. The bad part of being located in the midwest though...we have VERY few true local breeders. Whether I would buy from PetSmart, from the local mom and pop store, or a show vendor they're probably coming inot Iowa from the same wholesaler.

I had to run in and buy some supplies the other day and they had "Testudo" tortoises for sale. $119/ea regular price. $89/ea with PetPerks. I know it's the Latin genus...but it just struck me as funny that they weren't listed by species instead.



russiantortuga said:


> Ok so I bought my Russian tortoise from petsmart, the women who was telling me about the tortoise didn't know much about him... I wouldn't buy from them


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## Yvonne G (Nov 1, 2013)

Well, what can I say...it's PETA.


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## katiehuggins (Nov 3, 2013)

Then, do you get tortoises from breeders? Or online? Thats where I get my goldfish


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## Sulcata_Sandy (Nov 3, 2013)

My 2Â¢....

If you want a tortoise, search craigslist for a week. You'll have five.

[GRINNING FACE WITH SMILING EYES]


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## lichjen (Nov 5, 2013)

I can concur with petstore cruelty. The petstore where I get my feeder rats from a few weeks ago the reptile cages were full of ants, dead snakes, no water, rotten food in the tortoise cage, the rodent cages were full of fecal matter that looked that that had been there for 2-3 weeks.

there were dead fish in all tanks

I called corporate. I went back the other night - 90% of staff was fired, and everything was cleared up. I get my feeder rats elsewhere now - but I went to "check" to see if I needed anything else for my tortoises (ie check on the animals)


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## Artemis the Tortoise (Feb 2, 2014)

I am disgusted and will NEVER look at petco or petsmart the same again


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## bouaboua (Feb 2, 2014)

How sad.

I thought this can only happen in third world countries.


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## kmarkovich (Mar 28, 2014)

theelectraco said:


> Those videos are really old and PetSmart doesn't use Rainbow as a vendor, haven't In a few years actually.
> 
> 
> 0.1.0 Dachshund
> ...



When I worked there in 2007 they still used Rainbow.


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## Instinct (Mar 28, 2014)

I'm a currently employee at PetSmart and ever since I started there (in 2012) they already stopped using Rainbow as a vendor. I can't speak for Petco as I do not know who their supplier is. 

I do know that our reptiles come from "Reptiles by Mack". They always look to be in pretty decent shape, even during the colder months.


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## MrFrost (Apr 2, 2014)

Surely as other people have said in this thread, your pet store chains there in US no longer use Rainbow, but I can imagine that here where I live, although it's tonnes easier to smuggle the animals from Africa, there is no doubt there are also private companies breeding animals, especially budgies using methods much more cruel than the ones in the video. Seriously, you visit a store here and none of them will have below 50 budgies for sale at prices of about $10 a piece. There are so many budgies here in the UAE you could make an entire colony of budgies here.


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## Saleama (Apr 2, 2014)

oliviaTORTOISE said:


> OH NO! I purchased my baby from Petsmart!!!!! She was kept in a very small glass tank with another tortoise...... BUT she is doing fine and nothing is wrong with her!!! [TURTLE][TURTLE][TURTLE][TURTLE]


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## emysbreeder (Apr 17, 2014)

Wake up. The biggest enemy for animals and their owner is the HSUS (Humane society United States) and PETA. Their late night TV commercials are a scam and there officers are getting super rich. Their power hungry people who take money from uninformed people ($100,000,000+ yr.) like some of you and take it to Washington to lobby to take away our rights to own animals. (they donate less than 1 to 3%) Look up Humane Watch and learn what these evil people are doing. If you see a blatant case of cruelty report it to local Humane societies or Police do not gripe about it here. When you do it here you become "A useful idiot." for HSUS, PETA and more so called Animal Rights people. emysbreeder


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## BonesEx (May 23, 2014)

PucklesðŸ¢ said:


> I 100% agree! And even petsmart gets animals from private breeders that can still get WC animals instead of a CB.


I work for the place that Petsmart gets a lot of their ball pythons from. They are all wild caught, and shipped from Africa. If we can get them to eat twice, we sell to them. If they won't eat, they end up starving to death, or put in the freezer to die a painful death that way. It's "not worth the money" to waste food on them, according to our manager, because we only make about $5 per animal we sell to them. So why am I still working there? Because they're one of the biggest names in reptile breeding and sales, and it will look good on a resume later. I don't agree with the treatment of animals (or employees) there, and it kills me inside to watch it, but I feel trapped in it. It's not just ball pythons either. Iguanas, bearded dragons, hermit crabs, tortoises, turtles, you name it. Yea, they breed some animals, but they've been buying a lot more the last few years to keep up with demand.


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## Cowboy_Ken (May 23, 2014)

emysbreeder said:


> "A useful idiot." emysbreeder


Careful, no one ever said I was useful!


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## yillt (May 23, 2014)

That's horrible. I want to go and buy all those animals and take care of them all. I wish I could.


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## KevinGG (May 23, 2014)

BonesEx said:


> I work for the place that Petsmart gets a lot of their ball pythons from. They are all wild caught, and shipped from Africa. If we can get them to eat twice, we sell to them. If they won't eat, they end up starving to death, or put in the freezer to die a painful death that way. It's "not worth the money" to waste food on them, according to our manager, because we only make about $5 per animal we sell to them. So why am I still working there? Because they're one of the biggest names in reptile breeding and sales, and it will look good on a resume later. I don't agree with the treatment of animals (or employees) there, and it kills me inside to watch it, but I feel trapped in it. It's not just ball pythons either. Iguanas, bearded dragons, hermit crabs, tortoises, turtles, you name it. Yea, they breed some animals, but they've been buying a lot more the last few years to keep up with demand.



Well I think you need to look at what values are really important to you and see if you are living based on those values right now. Is making your resume look good more important then thousands of animals lives? Are you happy being in a place surrounded by death and pain for profit? Thee are all questions to really contemplate on. A place known for animal cruelty only looks good on a resume to someone who is running an operation based on an animal cruelty. If and when you decide to leave, don't feel guilty that you participated in that operation, just know that you got some experience on certain things and now you know what type of places you don't want to work at. Good luck.


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## BonesEx (May 23, 2014)

KevinGG said:


> Well I think you need to look at what values are really important to you and see if you are living based on those values right now. Is making your resume look good more important then thousands of animals lives? Are you happy being in a place surrounded by death and pain for profit? Thee are all questions to really contemplate on. A place known for animal cruelty only looks good on a resume to someone who is running an operation based on an animal cruelty. If and when you decide to leave, don't feel guilty that you participated in that operation, just know that you got some experience on certain things and now you know what type of places you don't want to work at. Good luck.


You know what? I've been hating this job the whole time. I loathe how we treat animals, and I know it's not right. I came home today and there was even worse news from there. Apparently the mice we pack/ship were carrying salmonella, and it sounds like the office people are flat out denying it. I've decided to quit. I don't want to be a part of it anymore, and it IS wrong. I don't care if I have to go work somewhere not around reptiles for a while, as long as I'm not hurting anyone. Thanks for the little pep talk, even if you just said what I already knew in the back of my mind, it helped me a lot to see that someone else feels the same.


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## KevinGG (May 23, 2014)

BonesEx said:


> You know what? I've been hating this job the whole time. I loathe how we treat animals, and I know it's not right. I came home today and there was even worse news from there. Apparently the mice we pack/ship were carrying salmonella, and it sounds like the office people are flat out denying it. I've decided to quit. I don't want to be a part of it anymore, and it IS wrong. I don't care if I have to go work somewhere not around reptiles for a while, as long as I'm not hurting anyone. Thanks for the little pep talk, even if you just said what I already knew in the back of my mind, it helped me a lot to see that someone else feels the same.



Wow. Really glad to hear that. You will be great. You can do whatever you set your mind to. I don't even know you, but I feel proud of you! Good luck in finding a job you love and can be proud of!


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## Cowboy_Ken (May 23, 2014)

Fun story along the same lines. My local Petsmart had a need for a reptile specialist at the store. Karen and I thought it would be a good outlet for me on a part time basis. So I was the president of the Oregon Herpetological Society for 5-6 yrs. until I moved and could no longer fulfill the duties of the seat. I've got some fairly good reptile references that are local. I figured I could slowly introduce them to a better standard of keeping for the reptiles that would prove to be less expensive in the long run. I manager and I discussed that you can teach someone ten key cash registers but it's pretty hard to teach people skills. Well guess what? The district manager and manager decided to go a different direction and as it turns out, this new direction meant, although they would continue to sell reptiles, they no longer were going to need someone that had reptile knowledge. Wow. So to you, I say good job and hold your head high.


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## verda (Sep 6, 2014)

It's so sad I barely watched the beginning and had to stop. That video will give me haunt me for a long time.


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## tryme (Sep 6, 2014)

Jesus my palms are sweaty from watching that.


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## JasonMcKeownSr (Sep 16, 2014)

PucklesðŸ¢ said:


> We all know, that petsmart or petco, isn't the "Smartest" idea, for purchasing a furry, or scaley friend. I'm not sure if watching this video encourages others to rescue them, or to shop somewhere else. I found a animal forum online. This person bought a bird by the sounds of it, and was not pleased about the "Sudden death"
> If you want to skip to the video here is the link (I DO NOT OWN THE WEBSITE)
> http://www.petsmartcruelty.com/video.asp
> ********
> ...


Oh my God!! That's terrible. That's where I bought my red ear slider. Glad I rescued her. Ide like to nuder him with a dull knife and see if he keeps kicking!! Absolutely terrible!


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## Lyles (Sep 30, 2014)

I don't take any PETAganda seriously, the fact is chain stores (like Petsmart and Petco, which are joint companies) tend to have much higher standards of animal care than your standard ma and pa pet store. When an animal becomes too sick to be treated by level 1 medical care they are sent back to be euthanized. 

As what has been stated before, pet stores are generally bad on the basis of selling animals for profit. This means that the purchase and maintenance of an animal must be significantly lower than the selling price in order to make a profit. There are some bad chain stores out there. There is very little effort in correcting these however when discrepancies are brought attention to the right people.

Regarding Russian tortoises and Petsmart/Petco, they are all wild caught.


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## Rachel Zent (Oct 8, 2014)

Something that needs to be noted is that the PETA investigation occurred at the supplier to PetSmart, not PetSmart itself. While I have seen soe awful things both at PetSmarts and Petcos, I have also worked at two different PetSmarts and they both HATED rainbow exotics, and actually took a lot of heart and care with the animals. I understand the concerns but also need everyone to know that you cannot judge each individual store because the CEO has decided to continue doing business with rainbow exotics.


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## Rachel Zent (Oct 8, 2014)

yillt said:


> That's horrible. I want to go and buy all those animals and take care of them all. I wish I could.


I promise that once they get to the store, they often receive wonderful care! I worked for a PetSmart that would spends hundreds and hundreds on even a $6 dollar anole if it was sick!


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## Rachel Zent (Oct 8, 2014)

Lyles said:


> I don't take any PETAganda seriously, the fact is chain stores (like Petsmart and Petco, which are joint companies) tend to have much higher standards of animal care than your standard ma and pa pet store. When an animal becomes too sick to be treated by level 1 medical care they are sent back to be euthanized.
> 
> As what has been stated before, pet stores are generally bad on the basis of selling animals for profit. This means that the purchase and maintenance of an animal must be significantly lower than the selling price in order to make a profit. There are some bad chain stores out there. There is very little effort in correcting these however when discrepancies are brought attention to the right people.
> 
> Regarding Russian tortoises and Petsmart/Petco, they are all wild caught.



PetSmart doesn't send them back to be euthanized they take them to the vet and medicate in a special hospital room in store until they recover or unfortunately pass away


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## Lyles (Oct 8, 2014)

Rachel Zent said:


> PetSmart doesn't send them back to be euthanized they take them to the vet and medicate in a special hospital room in store until they recover or unfortunately pass away



Anything beyond level 1 treatment generally gets euthanization. Petsmart / Petco are joint owned and both are *supposed* to have a contracted vet *per store*. This is not the case, however, as I know 4 stores just in my area alone that do not have vets contracted. Regardless, these contracted vets only conduct simple treatments, like administering anti-biotics, treating wounds, abcesses, ect. Any higher level care (broken bones, genetic, surgery, ect.) is not profitable, and like any business, profit takes precedence. Petsmart themselves do not conduct the euthanization, but are rather sent back to the middleman suppliers, who will either euthanize them (if requiring medical care) or sell them to labs at discount (if they become too old or temperament problem).


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## Rachel Zent (Oct 8, 2014)

Lyles said:


> Anything beyond level 1 treatment generally gets euthanization. Petsmart / Petco are joint owned and both are *supposed* to have a contracted vet *per store*. This is not the case, however, as I know 4 stores just in my area alone that do not have vets contracted. Regardless, these contracted vets only conduct simple treatments, like administering anti-biotics, treating wounds, abcesses, ect. Any higher level care (broken bones, genetic, surgery, ect.) is not profitable, and like any business, profit takes precedence. Petsmart themselves do not conduct the euthanization, but are rather sent back to the middleman suppliers, who will either euthanize them (if requiring medical care) or sell them to labs at discount (if they become too old or temperament problem).



That is absolutely untrue. I have worked at multiple PetSmarts. It is EXTREMELY against policy to sell or adopt pets for lab or feeder purposes. The only time that euthanization is an option is if the pet is suffering and cannot be helped. The last store that I worked at spent $560 on a guinea pig surgery, and then adopted the pet to a loving family PER POLICY. Profit does not take precedence over pet care. We also never send pets back to the supplier. We can reject them at receiving if they are ill as to protect the rest of the animals that were in our care. I was with the company for 6 years and this was always the policy. Sometimes there were managers who didn't like to spend money on such things but all you had to do was call the district manager and it was taken care of.


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## Rachel Zent (Oct 8, 2014)

Lyles said:


> Anything beyond level 1 treatment generally gets euthanization. Petsmart / Petco are joint owned and both are *supposed* to have a contracted vet *per store*. This is not the case, however, as I know 4 stores just in my area alone that do not have vets contracted. Regardless, these contracted vets only conduct simple treatments, like administering anti-biotics, treating wounds, abcesses, ect. Any higher level care (broken bones, genetic, surgery, ect.) is not profitable, and like any business, profit takes precedence. Petsmart themselves do not conduct the euthanization, but are rather sent back to the middleman suppliers, who will either euthanize them (if requiring medical care) or sell them to labs at discount (if they become too old or temperament problem).



Also they are not joint owned. There was discussion of PetSmart being bought out by Petco but it never happened. PetSmart is still it's own individual company.


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## Randi (Oct 13, 2014)

My tortoise was acquired from Petsmart on July 21st. The tortoise was adopted out to me because the store was going to euthanize her. They no longer felt that the vet attention was working. S(he) had been in the store since December of last year, in quarantine. The tortoise had been seeing a vet since she was brought into the store. She had a severe case of fungus. She was housed in a five gallon tank, with an inch of soaked, molded soil. She was no longer eating at the store (all they offered was kale). 

I set up my tank and picked her up. She is quarantined in my basement. The first night she was home, she ate for almost four hours straight. She was starving. I continued to feed her three times daily using a variety of veg. She went from 48 grams to now being 54.

The fungus was quite severe. I used Betadine the first two days, then Chlorhexidine Gluconate scrubs for a week. The fungus is gone, she's just got lots of pits and dents left. 

I also adopted out a gecko whose tail was mangled, a gecko whose ribs and entire arm were broken, impaction, etc.. all of these were going to be placed in a freezer or have their heads hammered in. I've worked in Vet Clinics and to see places like this taking it upon themselves to end a life and to end it so cruelly disturbed me. All of these problems with their animals were cases of negligence. I no longer shop and support places like this.


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## Magilla504 (Oct 13, 2014)

I am not a major supporter of chain per stores. I will say however, it only takes one( or many) to screw it up for the rest. To some people I'm sure it's a job but others do work in per stores because they love animals! In my area of northern Virginia, the petsmart employees as a whole seem to love and care for the animals very well! Many of times I have asked questions just to test their knowledge about different animals and most of them know the correct answer. Now the petcos in my region are just flat out horrible! I'm sure a lot of it has to do with district or regional management . Let's not forget that some of our most wonderful friends on the TFO may work at one of the stores. Just my two cents 
Jason


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## Randi (Oct 13, 2014)

I still have friends working in stores like these, and I support them and their love for animals. I used to work in two pet stores. I know how it is. The policies need some changing. I was hopeful to speak to a representative like I was told, just to see if there could be improvements. If they wanted to make an improvement and reach out, it would have made them look better. It just shows, the lack of care the people who make all the money have.


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## Randi (Oct 13, 2014)

It definitely would be a problem that's higher up. I have many friends who work in pet stores, they care and value the animals life. Some try to research as much as possible and do as much as possible. Others don't care. I guess my problem is that if they are selling a life, they should be held more accountable for its well being and the care provided. One misinformed person will share that information with another, and so on. And then it leaves a bunch of misinformed people who tried to go somewhere for guidance. 

I feel some policies need to change. An example.. the policy here is to use soil for all tortoises because it is cheaper for the store rather then using mulch. The soil gets wet, is not cleaned in due time, molds and the tortoise has problems.. now mulch, you can soak too much but you'd have to be misting for awhile. That one little change can help solve an array of problems perhaps. This one store in particular always has tortoises pass away or get extremely ill. That should be a sign that something isn't working. A company would probably save more money in the long run even if they had to spend a little more to ensure an animals well being. They wouldn't have constant trips to the vet, returns and refunds on sick animals, etc. If they are selling the animal, they need to sell the ideal lifestyle with it as well so to speak. If that company takes steps to correct a wrong, they are a better company for doing so. There's always things to learn and improve. My opinion on this, I suppose.


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## dmarshall1991 (Oct 13, 2014)

I worked at petsmart for 2+ years. From my experience at MY store the animals were taken care of wonderfully. 3 times a day we went to the "sick room" to medicate any sick animals and check on them. My store had a Banfield vet in it so whenever we'd get sick animals in we would take them there and they got the proper care. We also made extra sure that anyone wanting to purchase animals had all of the proper things needed and knew all the information about these animals. if they didn't we would outright refuse to sell them the animal. I can't even begin to explain the number of times I had to tell people "no I'm sorry you are not prepared to give this animal a proper home. Do some research and prove you know what your doing and be willing to give it proper care and THEN come talk to us" Now I HAVE heard terrible stories about the suppliers. But I have no experience with them so I don't know. Petsmart does get a bad wrap on how their animals are cared for, and I'm sure some of them do deserve that because not all petsmart or petcos care for their animals like we did at my store, but there definitely are good ones with employees who know what they are doing and do everything they can to make sure these animals are happy healthy and going to homes with people prepared and knowledgeable on their needs.


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## ahawashin (Oct 13, 2014)

You know something I know that petsmarts is responsible for these breeders and what are they doing to the poor animals , but I shop at petsmart I buy my fish there and I bought 2 parakeets from there the lady who cares for the fish is knowledgeable and she takes care of her animals that's what makes me shop there , if we have to start somewhere we need to send a message to the regional managers and to the CEOs of the companies that deals with the cruel breeders


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## Magilla504 (Oct 14, 2014)

ahawashin said:


> You know something I know that petsmarts is responsible for these breeders and what are they doing to the poor animals , but I shop at petsmart I buy my fish there and I bought 2 parakeets from there the lady who cares for the fish is knowledgeable and she takes care of her animals that's what makes me shop there , if we have to start somewhere we need to send a message to the regional managers and to the CEOs of the companies that deals with the cruel breeders


The only way to put them out of selling pets is for there to be no market for them. For example, I love russian torts and it's not that common for the average person to come across captive bred Russians. All of us on here can get them but for those who do not have Phone apps or are tech savvy may not know where to get cb torts. So the way to get chain pet stores to get out of the pet market is to make captive bred babies more available to the public. There is a reason chain pet stores don't house and sell dogs. There are too many private breeders to compete against.


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## Randi (Oct 14, 2014)

I understand that there are people working in these places that are knowledgeable and informative. I understand that there are people who love their job. I like Petsmart because they will bring sick animals to the vet but I'm trying to say, if there's good enough preventative care and husbandry, the vet won't really be needed. These stores shouldn't be bringing in reptiles that they can't properly care for in the store. An example.. if a store keeps bringing in an animal, and it keeps dying, wouldn't that mean something that it requires wasn't met?

When I worked at Petsmart, I was there for almost two years. I managed the sick rooms and all the opening duties. I remember the amount of sick pets vs. healthy pets. The stores where I am, definitely need adjustments. It should be about preventative care and what can be done to give the best life possible.


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## ahawashin (Oct 14, 2014)

Magilla504 said:


> The only way to put them out of selling pets is for there to be no market for them. For example, I love russian torts and it's not that common for the average person to come across captive bred Russians. All of us on here can get them but for those who do not have Phone apps or are tech savvy may not know where to get cb torts. So the way to get chain pet stores to get out of the pet market is to make captive bred babies more available to the public. There is a reason chain pet stores don't house and sell dogs. There are too many private breeders to compete against.


That is so true when I use to breed African greys I learned that ppl always rather do business with the breeder than some pet store that couldn't tell anything about the animal they had


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## ahawashin (Oct 14, 2014)

Lol what's so funny is the petsmart by my house has 4 tortoises now in a small 10 gallon tank they look so cluttered in the tank climbing on top of each other to get to the food they were marked Greek tortoise but I know they are Russians they look Russian


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## rachels-torts (Nov 20, 2014)

It definitely varies in each store the petsmart that I use takes pretty good care of their animals. They always have fresh food and little feces in their bedding. Petco on the other hand, you should never buy from. Every Petco I've been to keeps their animals in the same filthy living conditions. The rodents are crammed into tiny cages where they can barely move and the bedding is probably 80% feces. There are always multiple fish that are dead in filthy water. Not to mention the store reeks of urine. The last time I was there, the health conditions of the tortoises made me sick. They had 3 Russians in a tiny cage and their skin and shells were extremely dry and flaky. I asked if I could take a look at them, and the first one I picked up was very sick. He couldn't move, the skin on his back leg was literally hanging off, and he couldn't open his eyes. I emailed their manager and got a reply saying that they care a lot about the health of their animals. That was a complete lie. Please don't buy anything from Petco. They need to learn that the stores really don't care about the well being of their animals.


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## the_newzie (Nov 20, 2014)

I recently went to an "exotic pet store" for the first time since I was a kid last month to buy some stuff for Steve's indoor winter habitat, I could not believe the conditions these animals lived in. Everything from mid size terrariums over-filled with juvenile torts to little baby snakes kept in Styrofoam containers that seem like they'd be better suited to house drive-through side dishes. Why does anybody need to buy from a pet store when there are so many rescues that need homes?


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## Lyles (Nov 20, 2014)

the_newzie said:


> I recently went to an "exotic pet store" for the first time since I was a kid last month to buy some stuff for Steve's indoor winter habitat, I could not believe the conditions these animals lived in. Everything from mid size terrariums over-filled with juvenile torts to little baby snakes kept in Styrofoam containers that seem like they'd be better suited to house drive-through side dishes. Why does anybody need to buy from a pet store when there are so many rescues that need homes?



The same reason why people don't spay/neuter their pets and breed them in the backyard to sale on craigslist. Profit.

This is a huge problem that is predominant in the US with China and Japan at close 2nd. When people / companies breed animals for profit, they lower the animals' value to that below which empathy and compassion warrants. Animals that are bred in captivity should be done so responsibly as a hobby, and we know that when it comes to turts and torts you are lucky to break even due to the time it takes for them to reach sexual maturity and conditions needed for stimulating nesting. Which is why most of what you see in pet stores are either wild caught or long term captives. They also tend to be sick due to improper care and quarantine of new additions.


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## Rick's Sullivan (Nov 21, 2014)

the_newzie said:


> I recently went to an "exotic pet store" for the first time since I was a kid last month to buy some stuff for Steve's indoor winter habitat, I could not believe the conditions these animals lived in. Everything from mid size terrariums over-filled with juvenile torts to little baby snakes kept in Styrofoam containers that seem like they'd be better suited to house drive-through side dishes. Why does anybody need to buy from a pet store when there are so many rescues that need homes?


Agreed. I'm sure there are responsible corporate pet store locations just as there are irresponsible ones, but we need to do something about the animals flooding the rescues. I realize this is an extreme stance, but I often wish that there would be legislation to limit breeding and disallow wild caught pet sales while there are so many homeless pets (of all types) in this country. I also wish there was better legislation to enforce stricter standards so good humane breeders got the business and the pathetic breeders were put OUT OF BUSINESS. Hope you don't mind my musings too much!


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