# Okay To Breed Different Russian Tortoise Subspecies?



## MichaelL (Apr 27, 2020)

Hello all. I've heard some conflicting info on this subject. So I have had a hunch that my younger Russian is a rustmovi (spelling lol?) I bought her so that she would be a breeder female, but started realizing later that she had the rustmovi qualities (notice how the widest part of her shell is in the middle, while the other subspecies have the flare at the end) while my others had the kazakistani qualities. Here is a pic of her.




So, does it matter if I interbreed the subspecies? Should I sell her and try to find a female of the same subspecies? I hope not, it's a hassle finding a nice female, and this one has a great appetite and a nice shell.


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## MichaelL (Apr 27, 2020)

This is my other female. Not the best pic, but you can see the widest part is at the flare. Don't mind her walking in her mountain of greens lol.


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## Yvonne G (Apr 28, 2020)

I really doubt anyone is paying attention to that, which is a shame. Years ago I had our member, EgyptianDan, I.D. my Russian sub species and I adopted out all of them except for the kazachstanica ones. I think russians are more interbred than any other tortoise.


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## jsheffield (Apr 28, 2020)

Interesting discussion... do you have a reference link for ID-ing my Russians?

I'd love to know what sub-species Chili and Persephone represent, or even what blended characteristics they exhibit.

Thanks,

Jamie


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## Yvonne G (Apr 28, 2020)

jsheffield said:


> Interesting discussion... do you have a reference link for ID-ing my Russians?
> 
> I'd love to know what sub-species Chili and Persephone represent, or even what blended characteristics they exhibit.
> 
> ...








Russian Subspecies


I finally got around to taking pictures :D The first is T.h.horsfieldii. They are domed and almost as wide as they are long. T.h.horsfieldii The next is T.h.rustamovi. They are domed, but long and narrow. T.h.rustamovi Danny[hr] Next is T.h.kazachstanica. They are flat and...




tortoiseforum.org


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## Crush da Baum (Apr 28, 2020)

jsheffield said:


> Interesting discussion... do you have a reference link for ID-ing my Russians?
> 
> I'd love to know what sub-species Chili and Persephone represent, or even what blended characteristics they exhibit.
> 
> ...


Same. I never knew there were subspecies for Russians.


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## Yvonne G (Apr 28, 2020)

The differences are so subtle that even with egyptiandan's excellent pictures, I can't see the differences.


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## jsheffield (Apr 28, 2020)

Yvonne G said:


> Russian Subspecies
> 
> 
> I finally got around to taking pictures :D The first is T.h.horsfieldii. They are domed and almost as wide as they are long. T.h.horsfieldii The next is T.h.rustamovi. They are domed, but long and narrow. T.h.rustamovi Danny[hr] Next is T.h.kazachstanica. They are flat and...
> ...



Thanks so much, Yvonne! 

Even if I can't tell for my two, I'll still have fun guessing.

Jamie


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## jsheffield (Apr 28, 2020)

Based on the pics and the descriptions on the page you linked me to I'd guess that: 

Chili is T.h.rustamovi (domed, but long and narrow)





and that Persephone is T.h.kazachstanica (flat and almost as wide as long)



Jamie


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## MichaelL (Apr 28, 2020)

jsheffield said:


> Based on the pics and the descriptions on the page you linked me to I'd guess that:
> 
> Chili is T.h.rustamovi (domed, but long and narrow)
> View attachment 292599
> ...


Wow this just proves how bad I am at telling subspecies. Lol, but nice torts!


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## jsheffield (Apr 28, 2020)

MichaelL said:


> Wow this just proves how bad I am at telling subspecies. Lol, but nice torts!


Just guessing... also, the top-down photos don't really give you the feel of their domed/undomed natures.

Chili is built like a VW-bug, to Persephone's triple-stuff oreo.

J


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## MichaelL (Apr 28, 2020)

jsheffield said:


> Just guessing... also, the top-down photos don't really give you the feel of their domed/undomed natures.
> 
> Chili is built like a VW-bug, to Persephone's triple-stuff oreo.
> 
> J


Nice. Has persephone given you eggs yet?


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## jsheffield (Apr 28, 2020)

MichaelL said:


> Nice. Has persephone given you eggs yet?



No, she only came to live with us a few weeks ago, so she hasn't even met Chili yet ( #quarantine ).

J


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## MichaelL (Apr 28, 2020)

jsheffield said:


> No, she only came to live with us a few weeks ago, so she hasn't even met Chili yet ( #quarantine ).
> 
> J


? Even the tortoise is in quarantine. Do you think Chili wants to mate with her?


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## jsheffield (Apr 28, 2020)

MichaelL said:


> ? Even the tortoise is in quarantine. Do you think Chili wants to mate with her?



As soon as Persephone came into our house, Chili started acting differently. A couple of times, I've found the two of them facing each other and as close as their separate enclosures will allow, despite not being able to see each other... I'm certain they can smell another member of their species, even with three other species of tortoises also sharing my office.

J


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## MichaelL (Apr 28, 2020)

jsheffield said:


> As soon as Persephone came into our house, Chili started acting differently. A couple of times, I've found the two of them facing each other and as close as their separate enclosures will allow, despite not being able to see each other... I'm certain they can smell another member of their species, even with three other species of tortoises also sharing my office.
> 
> J


Wow that is fascinating.. I bet they have such good sense of smell and recognition of another of their species because in the wild, it is much harder to find another. Also, I would be so anxious to have them meet lol.


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