# Will the fighting stop?



## Angi

I have 4 male CDTs . They are from the same clutch and have lived peacefully together for five years, maybe six years. This year they started fighting. They will bob their heads and flip each other. The two smaller ones are not bad but Perv and Bob are very aggressive lately. Is this a seasonal thing? They are fine in the morning until they warm up , then at night they are fine but we have to separate them every morning.


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## lismar79

Maybe its a sexual maturing thing????


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## domalle

Angi said:


> I have 4 male CDTs . They are from the same clutch and have lived peacefully together for five years, maybe six years. This year they started fighting. They will bob their heads and flip each other. The two smaller ones are not bad but Perv and Bob are very aggressive lately. Is this a seasonal thing? They are fine in the morning until they warm up , then at night they are fine but we have to separate them every morning.



they are displaying natural behavior which indicates they are being well cared for and are right on schedule developmentally
it might be time to enlarge their enclosure and provide plenty of hiding places and breaks in line of sight to avoid conflict or injury
or permanently separate them which will not allow them to experience the full range of their developmental behaviors
and continue to develop naturally
as we hold these animals in captive situations and discharge our responsibilities to them as their keepers,
it is sometimes necessary to separate them especially as they reach larger sizes and are capable of doing any real harm to themselves


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## Tom

You are lucky you got away with it for so long. Time to separate.


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## turtlemanfla88

your males are old enough now and are doing male to male combat they will hurt each other. If you do not separate and they fight and flip one on its back . enough said


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## Angi

Okay I have a pretty big yard for them with a couple smaller pens. I still don't understand if this is seasonal or all the time now. Do they get frisky certain times of year or all the time? I have heard some animals act different during mating season only. Could it be a female near by causing this?


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## mike taylor

No tortoises are territorial. In the wild they will make their own territory and chase every tortoise out of it . They will find a female and mate if a male is after the same female they will fight to the death or until one runs off .


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## mike taylor

mike taylor said:


> No tortoises are territorial. In the wild they will make their own territory and chase every tortoise out of it . They will find a female and mate if a male is after the same female they will fight to the death or until one runs off .


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## turtlemanfla88

i keep all my male tortoises especially my Russians separate. Now turtles I keep all of my females in their own pond and males have their pond. I put males and female together in spring and then separate them again.


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## Tom

Angi said:


> Okay I have a pretty big yard for them with a couple smaller pens. I still don't understand if this is seasonal or all the time now. Do they get frisky certain times of year or all the time? I have heard some animals act different during mating season only. Could it be a female near by causing this?




Territoriality is a constant. It can get worse at certain times of year for the various species in conjunction with the ramped up hormones of the breeding season(s), but males don't want other males around ever.


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## ascott

Angi, they will eventually fight to the death...they will flip one another, circle, lay down next to their flipped victim and wait....they will wait until that threat is no longer a threat...what ever that takes.

The age is the main issue...you see, this is not the time of year they would be spunky due to hormones...that is more like the first month or two they come out of brumation (or spring months).....

They are true gladiators....perfect tenacious gladiators...


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## Angi

Thanks everyone for the great info. I haven't been on here for awhile because life has gotten so crazy busy and the torts were all acting like happy, spoiled tortoises. It is my assumption that they are all males because they are from the same clutch and a couple have flashed ( that is how Perv got his name. His junk was out and my mom called me in a panic thinking it was his intestines LOL). Time to build another pen.


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## TigsMom

Anji; Been there done that, yep it's time to get them each to their own separate enclosures. Years of getting along as clutch mates, but want those hormones of juvenile/adulthood hit all heck broke loose. It can get alot worse and it may cost you not only heartache but alot of money when they do their damages to each other. It's odd, but very true. My two lived together in harmony for years. I read all the posts and info that it would happen and when it did, it was alarming. Just this past year, even separated enclosures next door to each other were too much. Some how they knew the other was over the other side of the wall (they couldn't see through it). They'd scale walls to get to each other and try to kill the other. They are now separated across the yard by and no way can get to each other, but I'm telling you it wasn't something I wanted to witness and very necessary to never let either of them see another tort ever. Great when they're alone, lots of personality, but never will be allowed to see another tort again. Far to risky.


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## ascott

> Anji; Been there done that, yep it's time to get them each to their own separate enclosures. Years of getting along as clutch mates, but want those hormones of juvenile/adulthood hit all heck broke loose. It can get alot worse and it may cost you not only heartache but alot of money when they do their damages to each other. It's odd, but very true. My two lived together in harmony for years. I read all the posts and info that it would happen and when it did, it was alarming. Just this past year, even separated enclosures next door to each other were too much. Some how they knew the other was over the other side of the wall (they couldn't see through it). They'd scale walls to get to each other and try to kill the other. They are now separated across the yard by and no way can get to each other, but I'm telling you it wasn't something I wanted to witness and very necessary to never let either of them see another tort ever. Great when they're alone, lots of personality, but never will be allowed to see another tort again. Far to risky.



Just the nature of the beast....they are a fantastic species, curious--active--tenacious--stubborn---determined and absolutely clowns in their own right....once you set them up individually, you will see their true personalities come forward----that is the fun part...visual barriers from the start will allow a smooth transition....


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## Angi

We have been separating them but giving them turns roaming the yard. Is this a bad idea? Should we keep them to their own territory?


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## kathyth

My sister has 2 male desert tortoises. For the past 17 years, she has a,lowed each to roam the yard at seperate times. This has worked very well for her.


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## ascott

Angi said:


> We have been separating them but giving them turns roaming the yard. Is this a bad idea? Should we keep them to their own territory?



Are the two enclosures/yards ample size for them to roam and muck about in their own spaces? If yes, then may I ask why you then let them loose in an entirely different yard? Please don't read any tone along with this question, seriously I am only asking


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## bouaboua

Tom said:


> You are lucky you got away with it for so long. Time to separate.



This is a true statement.


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## Yellow Turtle01

Nope. They can and would kill each other. That sounds just horrible, but it's what tortoises do. They are not social, and are much much much happier alone... good luck with your guys!


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## Angi

Angela

We have one nice pen with a warm , dry hide and a humid hide the second hide is a plastic dog house with the bottom removed so they can dig down in the dirt. It is about 12 'X 6' has a small tree, grass and plants. The second pen is a quickie built one that is maybe 6'X6' but we use it for one tort that always wants to hang out there anyway. We are putting the two aggressive torts in the pens during the day and letting the none aggressive smaller torts foam the yard. It is a fenced in safe yard with grass, cement, dirt and lots of places to hide. We have been rotating them though so they all get a chance to roam the large yard. At night we put them all in different corners of the dry hide and they go right to sleep. The dry hide has heat lamps for when it gets cool. Now I am wondering if I should continue giving the bigger torts a turn to roam or keep them in their territory.


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## ascott

Angi,

I understand the rotation you are using....I would wonder though if the torts ever get a sense of settling into their own space...do you know what I mean? hmmm, if there is anyway they can each have their own space...to make their own and settle into their own routine--I wonder if that would be more desirable????


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## Angi

That is exactly what I was wondering about Angela. Bob has HIS spot. The rest don't seem to care, but I like to give everyone a chance to wander the whole yard once in a while.


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## Angi

BTW-The big yard is very tort safe.


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## ascott

Angi, I still would strive to set them up in an individual yard/space/enclosure...this way they will become accustom to their world....again, this is just what I would do dear.


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## Nicoli

They are probaly fighting over a female the want to find to mate with.


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## Nicoli

I agree that you should seperate them because tortoises can not breathe when they are upside down.


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