# Help treating for roundworms, please.



## ZEROPILOT (May 1, 2015)

this past Monday I spent $300 at the vet and was told that my tortoise was fine. Yesterday she pooped after 3 weeks of nothing and I found worms near it, I thought that they were earthworms, but I checked them out closer and they are indeed ROUNDWORMS.
I treat my tortoises with Diatomacious Earth in their food a few times a month, however, this girl has never eaten it. (Maybe it wouldn't have helped anyway)
A few questions: I do need to treat all four of my Red Foots don't I? They all live in close proximity. (Only one is pooping worms and not eating.) And can someone give me a relatively safe dosage ammount to give to my tortoises? (the ones that will eat) Can I administer some through drinking water for my tortoise that wont eat?
I have Panacur. The tortoises are all over 11" and as large as 14".
Thanks.


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## jaizei (May 1, 2015)

ZEROPILOT said:


> this past Monday I spent $300 at the vet and was told that my tortoise was fine. Yesterday she pooped after 3 weeks of nothing and I found worms near it, I thought that they were earthworms, but I checked them out closer and they are indeed ROUNDWORMS.
> I treat my tortoises with Diatomacious Earth in their food a few times a month, however, this girl has never eaten it. (Maybe it wouldn't have helped anyway)
> A few questions: I do need to treat all four of my Red Foots don't I? They all live in close proximity. (Only one is pooping worms and not eating.) And can someone give me a relatively safe dosage ammount to give to my tortoises? (the ones that will eat) Can I administer some through drinking water for my tortoise that wont eat?
> I have Panacur. The tortoises are all over 11" and as large as 14".
> Thanks.



When speaking about dosing (And can someone give me a relatively safe dosage ammount to give to my tortoises?), are referring to the aforementioned diatomaceous earth, or the Panacur you later reference?


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## ZEROPILOT (May 1, 2015)

Panacur for treatment. The DE has been used for maintenance only.
I know that there is an old post or two. I can't find anything.
My plan is to put the Panacur in a strawberry and feed my tortoises.(One each)
I think it's once a week for three weeks? That and how much I don't recall.


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## Turtlepete (May 1, 2015)

I've never used any ultra-specific dosage. 4-5 drops on a piece of chicken or other food that the animal will accept and hope they get most of it into them. Less is better here, and you typically don't need much, as far as I've been told. Seems to work well. I use chicken because if you soak a strip of cooked chicken in a couple drops of Panacur, it eventually absorbs it so you don't have to worry about the tortoise trampling the food in the dirt and losing all of the Panacur on it.

Hard call whether or not to dose the rest of them. The issue is that deworming without purpose is not optimal for the health of the tortoise either. But you also don't want to wait until they are displaying symptoms to make that call. If they are all eating good and still acting normal, I would hold it off for now, but watch them very closely.


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## FujiBaird (May 1, 2015)

I believe there is an online calculator for panacur dosing for tortoises, which is based on weight:

http://www.totallytortoise.co.uk/guides/charts-calculators/worming-calculator-panacur/

That said, I have no veterinary medicine experience and cannot vouch for these dosages being correct. When my tortoise was treated for worms, the vet had me give her daily doses for 4 days, then 2 weeks off, then another 4 days of doses. Your tortoise will still be passing worm eggs in that time and they can survive for several weeks in your substrate; I was advised to quarantine in a bin with paper towels for substrate until I was reasonably confident that all the worms had passed and enough time had passed that the eggs would be dead.


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## ShannonC (May 1, 2015)

With a heavy load of worms like that, you should dose lightly at first to avoid impaction from an overload of dead worms going through the intestinal tract. I would start with 25mg/kg of tortoise weight on day one, then 50mg/kg on day 10 and day 20. I don't know what type you have, so you will have to calculate the actual amount to give depending on what strength of Panacur you are using.

It also would not hurt to add an extra dose on day 30, or wait a month and repeat the entire three dose cycle again. The second time around, I would use the higher dose all three times. An actual overdose of the drug is almost impossible because it is so mild. The danger for the torts is getting the dead worms through and out! I have even read that you should dose at 100mg/kg, but I wouldn't do that in your case right now.

ETA: Disclaimer......I am not a vet, so take my advice at your own risk! (Although I have been using Fenbendazole on ALL of my animals for many years) Finding this info for tortoises was the first thing I did when I was researching to see if I really wanted torts.


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## ShannonC (May 1, 2015)

I would not try to dose Panacur in water!! Maybe you can get someone to help you give it directly into the mouth with a syringe? That's what I would do. If it's a big tort, and you have the lower dosage that results in a lot to be given, do it slowly...just a few drops at a time.


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## ZEROPILOT (May 1, 2015)

She's big and pulls her head and arms in really tight.
I'm not sure what I'll do if I can't introduce it into water as she will eat nothing.


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## ShannonC (May 1, 2015)

How much water will she drink? You could put less water, then overdose the water, but you will never know how much she is getting in her. And will she get enough in her in a short enough period of time that way to help? I would think that if she is drinking water, it's worth a try if it's the only way. But her water isn't going to taste good. It seems, according to my animals, that stuff tastes bad!

But, I say do whatever you can to get it in her. Which kind do you have? Liquid, paste, 2.5%, 10%??


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## ZEROPILOT (May 2, 2015)

I'm going out to get it. I'll report what form and what strength. They have it for horses and also for smaller animals.
She is in the quarantine area and I've removed the water. She will be nice and thirsty.
The others I'll give a small amount just in case. Four days on and ten days off then another four days on.
I'll post how it goes.

Thanks.


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## ZEROPILOT (May 2, 2015)

I got two small tubes of 10% paste and a box of powder that I'm gonna try to mix with water.
Everything was like $50.
I'll dose Sunday morning.


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## ShannonC (May 3, 2015)

I think it's fine to do the four day doses for your others, but I wouldn't risk it on the first round with the one that has a heavy worm load. If you dose her too much at once, it might kill off the worms too fast and cause impaction. If it were me I would do the once every ten days, THEN maybe do the four day doses after that when the worm load is much smaller. Just my opinion.


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## ZEROPILOT (May 3, 2015)

Thanks Sharon. And there is a HUGE UPDATE:
SHE ATE!
She ate a slice of mango with a small portion of 10% panacur. I then gave her a much larger untreated slice and she also ate that. I like the idea of not dosing too much.
I'll do that. The other three will get the three days on and ten days off then another 3 days.
With her, maybe once every four or five days would be better initially.
The fact that she ate today shows that she is still strong.
The dosage is about 1/3rd the size of a tic tac mint each.


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## ShannonC (May 3, 2015)

That's great to hear!! Yeah, you can get more aggressive with the treatment as she gets rid of a lot of those worms. As a matter of fact, I would definitely make sure she got some more aggressive treatment later on to make sure she gets rid of them all! 

I use the liquid 10% Panacur......that way I only have to buy one kind, because I can find a way to dose everybody......the dogs each have their own bowls, so theirs get put on their night time food......the cats doses are so small, it's easy to give theirs with a syringe......my chickens got theirs with a pipette.....my Beardies and Geckos get theirs with a syringe........ i haven't had to give any to torts yet, so that is yet to be determined.....lol..... I have a sneaky feeling it's not going to be as easy as everyone else!!


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## ZEROPILOT (May 3, 2015)

Yes. Thanks and she'll remain isolated for a few months while this runs its course.
Now that she has eaten, she should also poop and I'll examine it for worm quantity.


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## ShannonC (May 3, 2015)

Hopefully eating something today will have re-stimulated her appetite!! Sometimes getting them to make that first step is the key!! I am keeping my fingers crossed for you!


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## ZEROPILOT (May 3, 2015)

Thanks. 
And thanks everyone else.


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## newCH (May 3, 2015)

Yeah, she ate ! Thats great !


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## mtdavis254817 (May 3, 2015)

So glad she ate


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## ZEROPILOT (May 4, 2015)

Monday update. I DID give her a light dosage because she is still eating!
Today she ate another Mango slice, a slice of watermelon and two broccoli rabbi leaves.
Not the best meal...but food.


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## newCH (May 4, 2015)

At least she's eating, thats great !


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## ShannonC (May 4, 2015)

So glad she's still eating!! I have high hopes for her!! Just be careful of giving her too much Panacur in such a short amount of time until you actually see her expelling a lot of dead worms! As big as the ones were in the photo, she probably has quite a lot of them tons of smaller ones and tons of eggs!!


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## ZEROPILOT (May 5, 2015)

Yes. No more for her for at least a week.
I just posted dosing instructions from an Email sent by my vet.
About the same information you supplied, more or less.
She advocates 1 larger dose every seven days. For three doses.
She was sitting in her soaking pool this morning. The last time she did that, she pooped.


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## ShannonC (May 5, 2015)

Yeah, different people (even vets) give different advice. But the one thing I have found in common is that when there is a heavy load to start, you have to dose low at first so that the amount of worm die-off doesn't cause any impaction while being expelled.

I used to work for a vet, who is a very good friend of mine, and has always let me borrow his reference books and stuff. He doesn't do exotics, but he has a lot of medical references for them, just in case, and he always stays current with his materials. Even the latest reference has the three days on, seven days off, then three more days. But, my exotics vet that I use for all my herps says with *heavy* load, always do the half dose method and wait a week, then full dose, then another week, full dose.........wait a week or two, then do the three days on, seven off, three on.

I have had herps almost my entire life. Actually, I have had so many animals it's scary, including many exotics, and even raised exotic birds for about 17 years. So, I have taken on MUCH of my own medical care for my animals since I was about 20 yrs old. (That's been just a FEW years ago....haha!) 

Hopefully she will poop again today!! The more she poops, the better!!!! I'm so happy to see that she is eating something!! That always seems like such a good sign to me!! I actually have a VERY injured Axolotl right now that I have been babying for the last few days.......she finally ate one worm yesterday, and it just tickled me to death! I always feel like it's just the first step to being healthy again.


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## ZEROPILOT (May 5, 2015)

I Might have slightly over treated. I just got surprised that she actually ate. I didn't want to miss my opportunity in case she stopped again.
I was looking at tube feeding and tube treatment.


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## ShannonC (May 5, 2015)

ZEROPILOT said:


> I Might have slightly over treated. I just got surprised that she actually ate. I didn't want to miss my opportunity in case she stopped again.
> I was looking at tube feeding and tube treatment.




Oh, I understand that completely!! Like i said, I always get excited when I get a sick animal to eat!! It was all I could do not to keep feeding my Axolotl more worms yesterday, even though I knew it wasn't a good idea! We just want them to be better *right now*!!

Just keep an eye out for poops and make sure she doesn't get clogged up. I'm sure she will be fine!


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## ZEROPILOT (May 5, 2015)

Would that require another vet visit?


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## ShannonC (May 5, 2015)

Not sure......I guess it would depend on how badly she was impacted. If she continues to eat, but doesn't poop, I would soak her often in very warm water, as often as possible, to see if you could get her to poop that way. The warmer the water and the more space they have to move around while soaking, the better. (not too hot though!!.....the temp of water is hotter than we think sometimes!!)


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## Yvonne G (May 5, 2015)

jaizei said:


> When speaking about dosing (And can someone give me a relatively safe dosage ammount to give to my tortoises?), are referring to the aforementioned diatomaceous earth, or the Panacur you later reference?



I don't think it's a safe practice to give out dosages on the 'net. Panacur comes in different strengths. If one doesn't pay good attention to the strength of the medicine they're using, you could kill/poison your tortoise. It's always the best policy to have the vet weigh your tortoise and give you the correct dosage for your particular tortoise using the de-wormer he sells you or approves.


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## ZEROPILOT (May 5, 2015)

In this case the information I now have came from my vet. I agree with your point. You make a lot of good points.
Im using 10% CREAM with dosages adjusted accordingly. She (my new vet)
suggested and sells 2% liquid. But she had no stool sample to test. Once I saw worms, she told me what to dose in an Email. I just asked for a safe minimal dosage from members. I hadn't yet heard back from the vet at that time.
This is day three of her eating. No more meds for 7 more days.
She ate banana and broccoli rabbi.
Soooo picky but each day she seems better.


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## ShannonC (May 7, 2015)

@ZEROPILOT ....How's your girl doing?


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## Yvonne G (May 7, 2015)

ZEROPILOT said:


> In this case the information I now have came from my vet. I agree with your point. You make a lot of good points.
> Im using 10% CREAM with dosages adjusted accordingly. She (my new vet)
> suggested and sells 2% liquid. But she had no stool sample to test. Once I saw worms, she told me what to dose in an Email. I just asked for a safe minimal dosage from members. I hadn't yet heard back from the vet at that time.
> This is day three of her eating. No more meds for 7 more days.
> ...




I'm glad she seems to be settling in and getting better.

My problem with the dose, wasn't with yours and your vet's, but rather with some other reader of the 'net, even a 'guest' and not a forum member, seeing the amount of de-wormer per pound of tortoise and skimming right over the percentage or strength of the de-wormer. Someone could poison their tortoise.


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## ShannonC (May 7, 2015)

@ZEROPILOT ....The problem was my post, not yours.


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## ZEROPILOT (May 7, 2015)

No Sharon. I posted my own dosage thread and it didn't make it to prime time. I do understand why.
Yes. She has a lot of energy and is walking around a lot. However she still will only eat Mango and Banana with a small bit of Broccoli rabbi. 
Do you know of any short term issues with only fruit consumption?
I don't seem to have a choice right now.


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## ShannonC (May 7, 2015)

I have no idea about the fruit! I don't have any that eat fruit. But, if it were me, I would let her eat whatever she will just to get something in her. Fruit should definitely get her bowels going I would think!.....lol.....You can practice tough love with her diet when she is better. I probably would TRY to get her to eat other things, but if she won't, then at least she's eating something......gotta get something in to get something out!!


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## ZEROPILOT (May 8, 2015)

ShannonC said:


> I have no idea about the fruit! I don't have any that eat fruit. But, if it were me, I would let her eat whatever she will just to get something in her. Fruit should definitely get her bowels going I would think!.....lol.....You can practice tough love with her diet when she is better. I probably would TRY to get her to eat other things, but if she won't, then at least she's eating something......gotta get something in to get something out!!


Exactly my thoughts on the matter. I hate second guessing myself. But, sometimes there is a big problem with what I'm doing and another person can point it out.
She has decided to not eat Papaya or watermelon or even strawberries! Just banana and mango.


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## ZEROPILOT (May 10, 2015)

Just like I feared she stopped eating again.
Still no poop.
At least she got the meds in.


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## ZEROPILOT (May 12, 2015)

Yesterday she ate some over ripe pear sliced.
She will no longer eat mango. And she only eats inside her house. Not in the yard and only on the ground. Not in a plate.
What a strange little thing.
She got a long soak in a kiddie pool. Still no poop. It's possible that if it's runny it could disappear in the substrate. I just don't think I've missed it.
Next worm treatment is next Saturday.


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