# Russian tortoise sleepy, not eating, not pooping



## TeganTallullah (Nov 22, 2015)

I think my Russian (aka Horsefield) tortoise is trying to hibernate, but I haven't planned to hibernate her and I'm am worried about her. 

It's winter where I am and in the last couple of days the temperature has really dropped and I don't have any central heating. For the last month of so she has been off her food, barely touching it. She is sleeping most of the day, and the thing I'm most worried about is I can't remember the last time she pooped. I haven't seen any in her enclosure for ages, I can't remember the last time, but at least three weeks! She has peed a few times in this time though. I haven't seen her drinking in this time either, but her water bowl does get less full so I guess she is drinking a bit. I haven't seen her eating in the last couple of weeks either but I think a tiny bit is getting eaten. She still walks about a little, but nothing compared to her usual activity, and often I see her sitting still but with her eyes open. Often I put her under her heat lamp in the morning to warm her up and she sits there for a bit and then goes and sleeps in her shady log. 

I feed her mostly dandelions, clover, broccoli and grated carrot. Very occasionally I feed her spinach, grated parsnip and grated apple. She also has a cuttlefish bone in with her. I don't have a garden so she is inside all the time. She has a wooden tortoise table, approx 1 metres by 0.5 metres, with a heat lamp and a UV strip light (but the lights are on different sides of the enclosure which isn't ideal). She doesn't have any substrate in her house right now but usually she has soil with beech chips on top and hay. She is about 4 and a half years old and I have not hibernated her yet, because a) I thought she was still too young and b) I'm very nervous about it going wrong! 

Should I be worried about her behaviour? Any ideas on what I should do would be much appreciated.


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## mike taylor (Nov 22, 2015)

If you post pictures of the setup we can see what needs to be adjusted . As far as sleeping and not eating I think your temperatures are off . What is the enclosure temperatures ? Warm side cool side basking and nightly lows


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## TeganTallullah (Nov 22, 2015)

Thanks Mike... I haven't measured her temperatures for a while so I'm retesting them this evening. I'll post them and a photo tomorrow. Thanks again!


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## martaemha (Nov 22, 2015)

Hi Tegan, Your tort should not hibernate in these conditions. If you have a basking light for her (you wrote you do) this means it is too warm. Russians require really, and I mean really low temps for hibernation ( around 5˚C/41˚F) and appropriate preparation. 
On the other hand her enclosure seems too cold for her to act normal. If she's become lethargic, not eating etc. you should speed up her metabolism (they are cold blooded animals, when temps drop their metabolism drops too). And to do this you need to get the temps higher. If she goes on sleeping and not eating like that it's going to be harmful for her organism. Let us know what the temps are, maybe you need to add some basking lamps or cover her enclosure (you wrote you don't have heating so my guess is the cold air may be getting in her enclosure).


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## Yvonne G (Nov 22, 2015)

There have been 8 or 10 new threads started on this subject (Russian tortoise not eating, etc) in the last couple days. You might get some insight into the problem if you go to the Russian section and read some of the answers given on those threads.


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## TeganTallullah (Nov 23, 2015)

Hi, thanks for the advice Martaemha and Yvonne (I will look in the Russian species section too). The temps I measured yesterday were: Basking: 95F, warm side 60F, cool side 60F too (!) and night time 55F. But, the night time temp was taken at midnight and I'm sure it will get colder than that in the early hours of the morning. I will remeasure tomorrow in the early morning. Her lights are on 8am - 8pm. 

My camera isn't working so I can't show a picture of her enclosure but it is open, like it has just a base and sides with no lid. Should it be covered? 

I have just started giving her warm baths each day and I think that is helping her be a bit more active. I used to not bath her very often.


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## martaemha (Nov 23, 2015)

Hi Tegan! It seems you have no difference in temps between warm side and cool side. This should be changed. As I see it, your tort only has one little basking spot in her enclosure where the temps are ok for her and as soon as she moves away from the basking light she gets cold (60 degress is too low). And my guess is she reads it as a sign of winter and sleeps most of the time. I would personally opt for at least 70-78 degrees in the warm side. If you decide to make a lid for her enclosure make sure you figure out the ventilation (either leave some space between sides of the enclosure and the lid or make holes in the sides of the enclosure) as she needs air. And remember that the lid shouldn't come into direct contact with the lamps. You don't want fire in your tort's house.

Big temperature differences between day time and night time are ok for my torts and I've always considered them an advantage for their metabolism (for instance in the summer when they're staying in their outdoor pen for over 4 months) but then again I don't have problem with them sleeping all the time etc. So I would try to raise the night temps too. Oh, and be careful with the baths, If you soak her in warm water and then put her back in the cold enclosure she may catch cold. So to sum it up, if I were you I would try to raise the temps as soon as possible.


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## TeganTallullah (Nov 23, 2015)

Thanks Martaemha. She (or he! According to an article on this site I think she's actually a he) is definitely too cold. I'm just not sure how to warm her up, because my flat is cold and I can't heat it. I've already lowered her heat lamp. 

Maybe I could make a lid for her house, but it couldn't cover the whole thing because her lamp is attached to the side and hangs down into it. I could cover like two thirds of the top, but I wonder how much good that would do? 

As for the baths, I always put her directly under her heat lamp (about 95F) to dry out after a bath, do you think that's okay?


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## W Shaw (Nov 23, 2015)

I was having issues with mine not eating much and being a bit lethargic. His day temps were fine, but I realized that with the drop in ambient temp, his nighttime CHE wasn't keeping up. I left a day lamp on for a couple of nights until i could get stronger night heaters and he perked up and went back to plowing through his breakfast and begging for bedtime snacks again.

I also have a cold apartment. I just had to keep increasing the wattage of the heat lamps, because his enclosure is fairly tall, so a 100W bulb isn't going to do the job. His warm end now has a 150 over the basking spot and a 125 on the same end, opposite corner. There's a 150W night lamp about 3/4 of the way toward the other end, which keeps his feeding area warm and keeps the cool end from getting too cool. When I go to bed, I turn off the day lamps and shift the night lamp over his burrow. I'd rather have stuff bolted in place but since he doesn't make his night burrow in the same place every night, I want to be able to center the night heat on whatever spot he's chosen. My next improvement is going to be a cloth covered mylar blanket around part of his enclosure for the winter to block drafts from the windows and reflect the heat back into his enclosure.

Re: bathing -- If your apartment is cold, you might want to try what I've been doing, which is bathing him under a heat lamp. I just clamp one on the edge of a desk and put his bathtub under it. It keeps the part of him not in the water from chilling, and also keeps the water from cooling too quickly.


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## martaemha (Nov 23, 2015)

Hi Tegan! I don't know if covering two thirds of the enclosure will do any good as the cold air from your flat will be getting inside the enclosure anyway. However if it's the only option I guess it's better than nothing. You could also try to to use 4 pine boards or something similar attached in the corners of the enclosure, slightly higher than the sides. Then you just attach the lid to these boards (which in this case should be slightly bigger than the base). This way you can leave the lamp attached on one side, because the lid will not lean on the wall of the enclosure. I would also consider another heat lamp, to enlarge the warm area. W Shaw just gave you some great ideas concerning the lamps and bathing too - If you can I personally think it's best to put the baththub under the lamp in the enclosure to reduce tort's stress - they don't like to be touched moved and taken out of their home too often.


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## TeganTallullah (Nov 24, 2015)

Thanks everyone for the advice. I think her house (which is home-made) is not ideal to be honest. I've decided to buy some new tortoise stuff this week, including a better tortoise table and another lamp. I'm going to have a look in the enclosures section of this forum which should be helpful. 

Also thanks for the idea of bathing under the lamp!


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## martaemha (Nov 24, 2015)

Hi Tegan, it's good you decided to improve her conditions. In case you can't warm your flat, it's best to make a nice enclosure where your little companion will be warm. Oh and remember, having a home-made enclosure doesn't mean it's a bad enclosure! I learned that they are actually the best ones because the readily available ones are too small for my torts. Besides, a home-made enclosure means I can make it from scratch, according to my torts' needs. The enclosures section will be helpful for sure. Good luck!


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## Vladsfriend (Nov 24, 2015)

TeganTallullah said:


> Thanks everyone for the advice. I think her house (which is home-made) is not ideal to be honest. I've decided to buy some new tortoise stuff this week, including a better tortoise table and another lamp. I'm going to have a look in the enclosures section of this forum which should be helpful.
> 
> Also thanks for the idea of bathing under the lamp!


Just a quick note to go along with @Yvonne G, check the other threads. I don't brumate my Russian, but he still slows significantly in winter. He is in a properly heated enclosure with timers, but he eats less and sleeps more in the winter months. Many other keepers have similar experiences. If there are husbandry issues, by all means do your best to improve. But if all is pretty good, I wouldn't worry too much.


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## W Shaw (Nov 24, 2015)

A couple of final notes -- I'd avoid the broccoli in her diet because it has a substance in it that impairs thyroid function and can cause serious health issues over time.

Also, regarding the table, You don't need to worry about it being all pretty and natural looking right at the start. My little guy was an unexpected rescue, and took all but $30 of my bank account just to bring him home. I knew right away that I could not worry too much about human aesthetics at the start. Later, in bits and pieces I can make his enclosure bigger and cooler looking. For now I'm focusing on function and safety. His enclosure's not as big as I'd like for him but it's sufficient for his health and safety for now. It has a substrate he likes, and that his vet recommends, deep enough to burrow in. Space to walk around, no flipping hazards. Appropriate light, UVB and heat. It's not very interesting, so I provide enrichment by introducing novel objects and food items. In October, when I first got him, it was warm enough to put him in his carrier and take him to the university's arboretum. He didn't like riding in the carrier, but loved having the whole arboretum to stomp around in, and I figured the natural sunlight and enrichment value was worth the stress of 5 minutes in the carrier.


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## TeganTallullah (Nov 27, 2015)

UPDATE: I have been giving Coco warm baths under her heat lamp every day this week and the last two days she has been much more active, still not eating or pooping but walking around, looking alert, and peeing (with urates). Today she has started to eat again!! I don't know if she's just feeling better or if it's because I tried to temp her with different food to usual: She's munching away on kale and apple right now! I'm so happy.  

I'm still planning on getting a new house, bedding and a brighter light for her, as the temps are still too cold, but for now I'm very encouraged. 

Thanks again for all the advice you've all been kind enough to offer!


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