# Hibernation?



## Hunter951 (Nov 17, 2012)

Hey everyone! I have two desert tortoises. They are about 3 years old now. I was wondering if you would suggest hibernation or not. Right now they are outside in their pen. They are slow and barely eat anymore. Should I set up a cardboard box for them to sleep in during the winter (which would be in my garage..) OR should I let them live outside. If it helps the topic I live in Southern California. Any ideas?


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## ascott (Nov 18, 2012)

I would personally vote for brumation in a padded/cushy tote and place that in an area that will remain continuously cool (no real spikes in cool/freezing to warm/hot)...Do they have natural burrows or do they sleep in an above ground hide?


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## Hunter951 (Nov 18, 2012)

ascott said:


> I would personally vote for brumation in a padded/cushy tote and place that in an area that will remain continuously cool (no real spikes in cool/freezing to warm/hot)...Do they have natural burrows or do they sleep in an above ground hide?



They try to burrow into the ground. The only problem is if it rains...
I have a hide right now that they sleep in above ground.
I was thinking a plastic tub. Inside their I would put some CareFresh  on the bottom and then put some hay on the top. Maybe put a "tunnel" object to get the burrow started? Then drape a towel over the top (but make sure there is air..)?


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## Yvonne G (Nov 18, 2012)

I allow my brumating species to brumate unless they are sick or there's another reason not to allow it. 

BUT!!!

I never allow them to brumate outside. I live in an area that gets too much rainfall during the winter. If you live where desert tortoises occur naturally, then it would be ok for you to allow them to sleep in their burrow. But if you get much rain during the winter, its best if you box them up. 

I used to let them dig a burrow, but it was real hard getting them when they were all out of the burrow when it came time to box them up. So I filled in the burrow and built them a nice above ground house under the shade of the tree. Now when its time to box them up, I just lift the lid of their house and there they all are.


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## ascott (Nov 18, 2012)

I personally would not use that wood shaving stuff...(again, this is my preference) ..I use a cotton towel folded up several times (others I have seen use shredded newspaper as padding/buffer) and then lightly drape a cotton tshirt over them in the event they want to dig in a bit....I don't know if you will want to place a half log in with them...it may pose a roll over hazard that they likely will not utilize..

Just be sure to provide a cool, dry, dark, somewhat quiet place that does not allow any rodent hazard exposure....and that is easily accessed so you can do the periodic peek in on them...

I live here in the High Desert...I use to let them brumate outdoors--however, when we had those few years here where it rain heavily (6 days straigth!!) accompanied by freezing temps I was not comfortable supporting their brumation outdoors...so they brumate indoors now--well, except for one who was able to get into his burrow before I could get to him--little bugger..


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## Hunter951 (Nov 18, 2012)

Okay. We have a dog carrier that we are thinking of using. It can be filled with hay and other sorts of materials to make it seem like a burrow. What is the deal about no letting them eat and making sure you soak them. Can someone explain this to me?


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## Yvonne G (Nov 18, 2012)

If they don't clear out their stomachs and intestinal tracts then the food sits there and rots. In nature, a tortoise will automatically stop eating on its own about two weeks prior to going into his winter slumber. If your tortoises are outside, they probably have stopped eating. If indoors, they don't know they're supposed to be getting ready for hibernation.


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## ascott (Nov 18, 2012)

> It can be filled with hay and other sorts of materials to make it seem like a burrow.



A tortoise knows when it is in a burrow and when it is not.... So safe, clean, cool, dry and somewhat quiet are important things.....


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## Hunter951 (Nov 18, 2012)

ascott said:


> > It can be filled with hay and other sorts of materials to make it seem like a burrow.
> 
> 
> 
> A tortoise knows when it is in a burrow and when it is not.... So safe, clean, cool, dry and somewhat quiet are important things.....



Okay. I will be working on that shortly.


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## ascott (Nov 18, 2012)

http://www.tortoisetrust.org/articles/safer.html

http://www.desertmuseum.org/programs/tap_burrow.html

http://praxiscreative.com/gus/

http://www.donsdeserttortoises.com/1.html

Just some good reading and references....


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## Hunter951 (Nov 18, 2012)

Thank you! New question:
Since this is my first time (along with my tortoise) setting them up for hibernation... should they hibernate for only a couple weeks? I heard twice now that tortoises that hibernate for the first time should only hibernate for 4-5 weeks. Do you agree with this statement?


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## Yvonne G (Nov 19, 2012)

This is what I agree with:

A new-to-you tortoise should be kept awake the first winter with you.

If you are unable to keep the tortoise awake, he just won't stay awake, then a 2 week "pretend" hibernation would be ok, but then get him up after two weeks and make him think it's summertime.


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## Hunter951 (Nov 19, 2012)

I have had my tortoises for 2 years now. Both years they were kept awake inside my house/outside with a heat lamp. Does that change anything?


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## Yvonne G (Nov 19, 2012)

No, that doesn't change anything. The tortoise is no longer new-to-you, so if you allow him to brumate (hibernate) then you should let him sleep as long as he wants to.


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## Hunter951 (Nov 19, 2012)

Okay. Should I stop letting them eat now or still let them eat untill like December?


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## Yvonne G (Nov 19, 2012)

If the tortoises are outside, they will stop eating on their own. They have been doing this for eons and do it naturally without us telling them it is time to stop eating. When they are ready to brumate, they will stop eating.


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## Hunter951 (Nov 19, 2012)

Do I allow them to brumate then pick them up and put them inside the box for them to hibernate? Or put them in the box before they begin to brumate?


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## ascott (Nov 19, 2012)

> Do I allow them to brumate then pick them up and put them inside the box for them to hibernate? Or put them in the box before they begin to brumate?



I have done it both ways....If your tort is going to brumate this year yet has not had the normal triggers for a couple of years then I would let them experience the weather changes from the day into the early night (unless of course you are in an area that is below freezing temps at night) for as long as possible so that they will get into the groove of what is naturally happening with them...

Wait around for Yvonnes reply....I too enjoy hearing what her take is on this subject


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## Hunter951 (Nov 24, 2012)

Just an update... They still aren't eating. Planning to give them a nice,warm soak today to make sure there isn't anything in their stomach. I checked on them when they were outside this morning... One of them was asleep and wouldn't get up. I warmed her up a little just so i can get her in some sun light. I am still getting their hibernation zone ready. It is a dog carrier with shredded paper, hay, and crumpled papers. I plan to add more shredded paper to it. I also am going to put a towel to make is darker. Anything else?


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## Yvonne G (Nov 24, 2012)

When the weather starts to cool down, and a tortoise stops eating, they will still come out in the a.m. and soak up some sun. If you see them coming out every morning, they aren't ready to go down yet. Once you don't see them coming out any more, that's when you box them up. Even if they've been inside their house for a week and not coming out, they aren't actually brumating yet. They are just too cold to move. It takes quite a while for them to reach the brumate stage.


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## Hunter951 (Nov 24, 2012)

Ok, thanks! If one of my two torts. are ready to hibernate and the other one isn't do I just put the one in the hibernation box or wait for them both to be ready?


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## Yvonne G (Nov 24, 2012)

Since my desert tortoises' house is dry and weather proof, I just leave them all in there until I don't see any of them coming out any more. Then I still leave them for another week. After that time, I box them up.


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## Hunter951 (Dec 1, 2012)

Update. The tortoises kept going into hibernation but would wake up when I went to check on them. After holding them for a mintue they both fell asleep, so I thought it was time to put them in the hibernation box. They are in there now, sound asleep, and happy.


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## Yellow Turtle (Dec 1, 2012)

If I own another desert tortoise, then I won't choose to brumate them, as they won't naturally brumate in my country. It's just like an artificial brumation and I prefer my fridge for food only


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## Terry Allan Hall (Dec 4, 2012)

Yellow Turtle said:


> If I own another desert tortoise, then I won't choose to brumate them, as they won't naturally brumate in my country. It's just like an artificial brumation and I prefer my fridge for food only



Don't see any good reason to brumate a pet tortoise, as things can go horribly wrong, *and there's no need for it*...in about 40 years of tortoise-keeping, I've never heard of anyone's pet dieing or becoming injured from* not *brumating.

But, if you must, consider making a strong wooden box with a lid made of 1/4" hardware cloth lid, to keep other animals out, if you use the method of keeping them in your garage or a spare room over the winter...contrary to many's belief, no home is absolutely rat-proof, and rats find a brumating tortoise to be an long-term source of cold-weather protein!

Apologies for that gruesome image, but it happens!


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## Yellow Turtle (Dec 4, 2012)

Terry Allan Hall said:


> Yellow Turtle said:
> 
> 
> > If I own another desert tortoise, then I won't choose to brumate them, as they won't naturally brumate in my country. It's just like an artificial brumation and I prefer my fridge for food only
> ...



Thanks for sharing. Actually my reason not brumating because I live in tropical country. Temperature here never drops lower than 26 C then I need to use the fridge to brumate them


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## Terry Allan Hall (Dec 4, 2012)

Yellow Turtle said:


> Terry Allan Hall said:
> 
> 
> > Yellow Turtle said:
> ...




Yet another good reason not to brumate pet tortoises...I live in The Republic, and it's not all that similar to where my Hermann's torts originally came from, either...nor do I pretend that it is. These're not wild tortoises, in their natural environment, thus treating them as wild tortoises, in their natural environment, is not a good idea or actually possible...


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## ascott (Dec 4, 2012)

> They are in there now, sound asleep, and happy.



Good to hear....remember to quietly check on them from time to time to make sure all remains well...


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## Hunter951 (Dec 7, 2012)

I took a look at them today. They both would open one eye and after a minute open the other. I was also listening to their breathing. The smaller tort. was breathing ok, but there was a little bit of 'labored breathing'. Like if you snore... it sounded like that. The bigger tort. sounded close to the same but a little quieter. It wasn't loud.. but I want to make sure things are all right. When I was listening to the bigger tort. he stuck his head in my ear, being silly when hibernating! ha


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## Hunter951 (Dec 13, 2012)

Anyone?


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## Terry Allan Hall (Dec 13, 2012)

Hunter951 said:


> Anyone?



Not a believer in hibernating pet tortoises...too many risks. 

Not sure what to advise you, other than to wake them back up by giving a warm soak, then them 14-15 hours of daily light and normal temps (70-75F on the cool end and up to 100F under the basking light).

Good luck with them.


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## ascott (Dec 13, 2012)

> I took a look at them today. _They both would open one eye and after a minute open the other. _I was also listening to their breathing. The smaller tort. was breathing ok, but there was a little bit of 'labored breathing'. _Like if you snore._.. it sounded like that. The bigger tort. sounded close to the same but a little quieter. It wasn't loud.. but I want to make sure things are all right. When I was listening to the bigger tort. _he stuck his head in my ear, being silly when hibernating! ha_




Well, when you "sneak" a peek...you really don't want to mess with them long enough to get them leering at you ....lol, plan your ninja slip in and slip out ...stealth, except to tickle their foot (without giving them too much notice to then mess up your surprise tickle )

When you do a stealth food tickle your tort will naturally react--and that reaction is the moment you are listening for their quick breath--you are NOT wanting to hear a wet breath sound...but rather a dry puff of air sound....

Do you have them in a quiet, cool/cold place that remains completely dark?


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## Hunter951 (Dec 14, 2012)

Yes. It is our garage. We have towels over the area so it is dark.


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