# Keeping Tortoise's Inside



## Cymmie (Sep 21, 2013)

I keep hearing conflicting information on this. I want a Mediterranean tortoise of some sort I think. Because I want a small tortoise which doesn't need to go through hibernation. But the problem is I hear that no tortoise should be kept inside. I plan to let whatever kind of tortoise I get to have daily sun, and a uvb light. But I keep hearing that no tortoise can be kept mostly inside. Is this true?


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## wellington (Sep 21, 2013)

It's not true, just not the best way a tortoise could be kept. Lots of tortoises are housed inside a shed, garage, basement, barn, etc for cold winter months. However, getting them outside when ever possible and for the warm spring, summer and fall months is what everyone should strive for.


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## Cymmie (Sep 21, 2013)

Ok, I live in CA so I could easily have him/her outside during most of the year and bring him/her inside when it's night and when it's cold. I just worry because I have a small dog and dogs around me that I don't want him/her to get near. So I would need to make an enclosure I guess to keep him/her in to make sure he/she is safe.


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## irisann101 (Sep 21, 2013)

Cymmie said:


> I keep hearing conflicting information on this. I want a Mediterranean tortoise of some sort I think. Because I want a small tortoise which doesn't need to go through hibernation. But the problem is I hear that no tortoise should be kept inside. I plan to let whatever kind of tortoise I get to have daily sun, and a uvb light. But I keep hearing that no tortoise can be kept mostly inside. Is this true?


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## hunterk997 (Sep 22, 2013)

From what I have gathered, is a tortoise will be fine inside, but can thrive outdoors. They do best outdoors, I have read people saying that their tortoise(s) are much more active outside than inside (I have experienced this myself). So if you can get your future tortoise outside, it would be good to do so.


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## cemmons12 (Sep 22, 2013)

Cooper lives mainly indoors, and he is healthy as can be!


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## Tom (Sep 22, 2013)

For most of my smaller tortoises I PREFER to house them mostly indoors, but I make nice outdoor enclosures for them to hang out in during fair weather. My adult and juveniles of larger species live outside full time, but that is a matter of convenience for me. It can most certainly be done MOSTLY indoors, especially if they get lots of time outside on a regular basis. They should still have a large, correctly set enclosure inside too. I have always been a proponent of indoor AND outdoor housing, with variations for various species and sizes.

You WILL need to build a suitable large, dog proof area for your tortoise. Glad to hear you say you already know this. And don't use chicken wire. They can get through it. Use hardware cloth or welded wire. Or simply fence off the area with chain link. Large 6x10x6' dog kennels can work well as outdoor tortoise enclosures. You can put them together, remove the middle walls, and make it even bigger. Just add a visual barrier around the bottom for the tortoises and then have fun with it.


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## Cymmie (Sep 22, 2013)

Thanks Tom <3 and everyone with the help


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## sibi (Sep 22, 2013)

Please note that you said you can let the tort go outside during the day, and have a UVb for inside. If he's outside everyday, there's no need for a uvb bulb. It may have just been an oversight.


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## Cymmie (Sep 22, 2013)

I meant on the days he's not outside. Which would be any rainy or cold day.


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## Tom (Sep 22, 2013)

If he gets sunshine most of the year, you won't need any artificial indoor UV. Its fine if they go a couple of weeks at a time over winter with no sun. Just make sure you don't use one of the many coil type cfl UV bulbs that the pet stores like to push. They can damage tortoise eyes.


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## Kapidolo Farms (Sep 23, 2013)

Many tortoises live long quality lives never ever going outside. It is a more difficult husbandry regiem if they never go outside, but that is on you as the keeper. 

Temperate species nearly all hibernate, or at least have a prolonged dormant period. If you want year round active indoors, a tropical species will be more rewarding.

Will


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## Cymmie (Sep 23, 2013)

What about a power sun? It's a MVB bulb?


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## Kapidolo Farms (Sep 23, 2013)

Sometimes I just don't get where all the dogma comes from.

Fact: Several Psammobates tentorius lived entirely indoors with no artificial UV spectrum bulbs at all for well over 20 years at the Fresno Chaffee Zoo, they produced many good eggs, and had a floor space of about 1 square meter. Husbandry was with qualified keepers, volunteers, and a curator who managed their husbandry excellently.

No real sun, no UV specialty bulbs, a well managed diet and hydration routine and they produced several eggs over many years. This is a real situation with one of the tortoises many "expert" and experienced people won't even touch, as they are no stellar "doers".

Think of it like being an astronaut, you can live in space, but your personal 'husbandry' is not going to be simple. Similar with animals, nearly all animals, meet the needs through one means or another and you will have long lived healthy animals.

The more you emulate the "wild" in terms of services to your animals and eliminate the "wild" in terms of disease, poor food abundance and quality, and predation the Easier that husbandry will be.

Cymmie, I fully understand hearing so many conflicting ideologies and alternate methods, but they are all governed by the paradigme of provided services and needs, and eliminating costs of the life that the animal would have in the wild. What is an adaptation against an adversary aspect of living in the wild versus what is a benefit of living in the wild. Not so simple to sort out. 

Chelonians, including land tortoises, have survived two major extinction events over the globe we live on, they are pretty tough animals, given some basic needs. UV for example provides a benefit, but the UV in and of itself is not the requirement, the benefit of the UV is the requirement. It is much easier to place the tortoise outside for an hour or two a week to get that benefit of UV, but the fact is that is not a requirement for the tortoise to do well let alone thrive, getting UV. It's just much more simple. 

Arguments about the psychology of the animals are interesting, but based on such a catalog of anthropomorphism, it is more a learning moment about human nature, the obsession with an animals' psychology, than a learning moment about the animal. 

Those little tent tortoises did not feel "bad" that all their eggs were not incubated (a requirement of the RSA conservation authorities and a policy of the zoo). They did not "hope" that next year would be "the year" is all works out, they just ate their food, drank their water, slept in their little pallets, and woke up each day to do it all over again. I do believe they have feelings, emotions to be more exact, not just physiological responses to stimuli, but they are not feelings as humans experience them, no matter how hard you project onto them your hopes, love, etc. These human qualities are the drivers that meet the requirements of the animals in captivity, as the human used those feelings to do well at the tasking of keeping the animal, projecting them onto the animals does not make a difference.

Cymmie, so the trade off is effort, planning, and time versus living in an area where the tortoises would find out side, itself, more or less _in-situ_.

Blah blah blah

Will


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## Tom (Sep 23, 2013)

This is one of your best posts Will. Very well stated.


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## Cymmie (Sep 23, 2013)

Oh so tortoises do not need UVB everyday? (I am way to used to chameleons who absolutely need it) I was thinking they absolutely needed it everyday >.< I am planning on taking my tort outside as often as possible but that will probably not be everyday. I am ok with dormant times, I just worry about doing real hibernation because it's a big unknown to me.


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## Tom (Sep 23, 2013)

Chameleons don't need it every day either...


Vitamin D3 is fat soluble, and so the body stores it in fat cells. As long as they are producing enough over time to meet their daily needs, they don't need it every day.

I raised and kept several chameleons for years and never once had indoor UV. Heck when I started, we didn't even HAVE indoor UV bulbs. (All you old-timers remember when "Vita-lights" came out?) They went outside on some potted ficus trees for 30-60 minutes every few days when the weather was nice and I had the time. Other than that, they lived indoors with no UV at all. I grew them from hatchling to adults this way.


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## Cymmie (Sep 23, 2013)

I was always under the impression that chams needed it as often as possible... like for the full amount of their day cycle? (maybe I just worry too much about mbd)


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## Weldd (Sep 23, 2013)

Will said:


> Sometimes I just don't get where all the dogma comes from.
> 
> Fact: Several Psammobates tentorius lived entirely indoors with no artificial UV spectrum bulbs at all for well over 20 years at the Fresno Chaffee Zoo, they produced many good eggs, and had a floor space of about 1 square meter. Husbandry was with qualified keepers, volunteers, and a curator who managed their husbandry excellently.
> 
> ...


==========================================

This is a fantastic post. I fully expected this thread to evoke all of the negative feelings many seem to have toward keeping tortoises inside. I'll never understand that. If the animals are healthy and reproductive indoors I think it's ridiculous to suggest that their needs are not being met somehow. As Will mentions, keeping animals indoors year round is very labor intensive...and very rewarding in my opinion...


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## Cymmie (Sep 23, 2013)

Yes labor intensive work is fine with me, I have many animals that I look after whom most would consider labor intensive. I look forward to bonding with my animals by taking care of them through hard work. But I also see how visiting the outdoors would benefit my tortoise. I will probably find some balance between the two.

Oh, and I found my little hermann's he's a year and a half old absolutely gorgeous, from a local pet shop, he seems to be healthy, very little pyramiding for a petshop tortoise and no eye problems from what I could see. I am guessing he (just calling him a he right now) is too young to be sexed.


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## AZtortMom (Sep 24, 2013)

Excellent post! Another reason I love this forum 


Life is good


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## Tom (Sep 24, 2013)

Cymmie said:


> I was always under the impression that chams needed it as often as possible... like for the full amount of their day cycle? (maybe I just worry too much about mbd)



Nope. They function just like any other reptile in regards to the UV/D3/ calcium thing. They do need a normal light/heat cycle of 12 hours a day, but they only need actual sun exposure a few times a week to meet their UV needs. As long as you aren't using those coil type cfl bulbs, there is no harm in offering indoor UV all day.

Its okay to worry. That will usually make people take better care of their animals.


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## Cymmie (Sep 24, 2013)

Taking better care of animals is what I strive for. I want to make all my animals have as much of a happy life as I can. As soon as I move out I know I'm getting a bigger cham enclosure for Ryker. I think my 110 gallon hermit crab tank is as big as I'll get. My day gecko enclosure will get much bigger. And I know that my tortoise enclosure will be... awesome and gigantic... maybe devote an entire room to them <3. I wish I could do it now, but I know all this will happen sometime soon. SOON IT WILL BE >8D You all inspire me to do my best for this soon to be new friend <3 I am already planting an opentia (I think that's how you spell it) cactus, and germinating some chia seeds to plant. I've been looking at clovers to plant in his enclosure and bought some violets for him to snack on. 

Thank you all soooo much for being so awesome and so inspiring <3 Making me want to strive for as perfect of a life for this little one as I can get. You are all amazing people <3


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## Terry Allan Hall (Sep 26, 2013)

Cymmie said:


> Ok, I live in CA so I could easily have him/her outside during most of the year and bring him/her inside when it's night and when it's cold. *I just worry because I have a small dog and dogs around me that I don't want him/her to get near. So I would need to make an enclosure I guess to keep him/her in to make sure he/she is safe.*



Exactly...build a strong enclosure with a strong lid made of 2" X 4"s and 1/2" or 1/4" hardware cloth...many dogs consider tortoises to be irresistable chew toys, so it's wise to limit contact!

If they get sun most days, bringing them in on cold days and at night is perfectly fine. 

And, no, brumation/hibernation is absolutely optional.


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## Cymmie (Sep 26, 2013)

I finally have my tortoise, for now he's in a 54 gallon rubbermaid container until I build my tortoise table which will probably be within the next month or two. He (just calling him a he outof hope I am told he's still too young to tell being supposedly only a year and a half) is still pretty small I'd say around 4-5 inches long (haven't measured really yet), will be uploading pics tomorrow when I he has settled in more and also will give my list of names. 

I just got him today and he's nibbled on a little bit of fuscia leaves, I realized that my lettuce mix had gone bad too late so I fed him some of my fuscia flower and leaves from my backyard. 

And yes keeping him away from my dog is top priority even though Dewey would probably be more afraid of him than want to chew on him >.> I still don't want anything to possibly take place. 

I still bought a powersun >.> because I'm totally paranoid about when I go away for a few days and he won't be able to get outside when I have someone else watching him. So he'll just get extra sun time XD 

I seriously can't wait for a larger enclosure for him, though the rubbermaid he's in right now is easily like 4x the size of his pet store cage.


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## Terry Allan Hall (Sep 27, 2013)

Cymmie said:


> I finally have my tortoise, for now he's in a 54 gallon rubbermaid container until I build my tortoise table which will probably be within the next month or two. He (just calling him a he outof hope I am told he's still too young to tell being supposedly only a year and a half) is still pretty small I'd say around 4-5 inches long (haven't measured really yet), will be uploading pics tomorrow when I he has settled in more and also will give my list of names.
> 
> I just got him today and he's nibbled on a little bit of fuscia leaves, I realized that my lettuce mix had gone bad too late so I fed him some of my fuscia flower and leaves from my backyard.
> 
> ...



At 4-5 inches, he/she is sexable...put up a pic of his/her rear end, showing the tail clearly, and it'll be a done deal.


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## Cymmie (Sep 27, 2013)

Awesomesauce ^^ will do that later today when he wakes up, his light hasn't turned on yet.


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## Cymmie (Sep 27, 2013)

My thread with pictures in it http://www.tortoiseforum.org/post-747216.html#pid747216 

And any thoughts on names would be much appreciated <3

He went outside today for a little bit with me watching him like a hawk since he has no real outside enclosure yet. He became super excited XD and active. Was only outside for 15 minutes though because I didn't want to over do it on his first real day here, plus I have no real shade near by in my yard and it's really hot out... so I figure I need to make him a pen with something with shade in it when I make him one.


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## Maggie Cummings (Sep 27, 2013)

I keep and have kept a number of turtles and tortoises in the house. I put them out and bring them back in all Spring and Summer as we have predators here at night that would eat them and all Winter long they are mostly indoors do the the freezing weather we get and all are healthy. I like having them in the house so I can interact more with them and I couldn't do that if they were outside all the time. I make sure to feed the best diet I can and I provide the biggest habitat that I can, I also create an exercise place for them so each one can get out of their habitat and get some exercise when they are having to stay in. hth


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