# New Gopherus



## tortoiseguy65 (Apr 23, 2010)

Since I am not experienced with this Genus, I thought I would defer to the experts. What do I have? I know it is a female as she laid eggs a week ago. I just got her this evening. She was found wandering the streets of a central Illinois small town near the Illinois River. She was with the previous owner for 6 years. She is very friendly and outgoing. Let me know what you think.


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## Kristina (Apr 23, 2010)

She sure as heck looks like a Florida Gopher to me. I almost never nail ID's, so I am probably wrong, LOL. I just keep trying and hope to learn from my mistakes.


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## Yvonne G (Apr 23, 2010)

I'll be darned! So it really was a Gopherus and not a sulcata. Well, I'm not real good at i.d.ing the gopherus species, but I'm going to guess Texas or Gopherus berlandieri. Of course you know that Danny is going to shoot me down!


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## tortoiseguy65 (Apr 23, 2010)

Yvonne, Yep, it wasn't a sulcata. I am glad that it wasn't. I hope Danny does let me know what I have. That would be cool if it is a Texas. Ya never know.


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## matt41gb (Apr 24, 2010)

Hey, Jeff. If it's a "Texas" you have to send it to me! Ha! 

-Matt


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## egyptiandan (Apr 24, 2010)

You have a Desert tortoise, _Gopherus agassizii_, Jeff  

Danny


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## matt41gb (Apr 24, 2010)

tortoiseguy65 said:


> Since I am not experienced with this Genus, I thought I would defer to the experts. What do I have? I know it is a female as she laid eggs a week ago. I just got her this evening. She was found wandering the streets of a central Illinois small town near the Illinois River. She was with the previous owner for 6 years. She is very friendly and outgoing. Let me know what you think.



I would say you have a gopher. I was looking at some pictures I took of one a few years ago. A guy who is a trucker picked one up off of the road in Florida and brought it back to Texas. I know, I know, it's illegal. I told him that, he understood and took it back. The pictures look very similar. I'm noticing there is no nucal scute. I wonder if it was injured there? All of the gopherus seem to have this scute present. 

Florida Gopher














-Matt


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## tortoiseguy65 (Apr 24, 2010)

Thanks Danny. Could you direct me to a good reference where one can distinguish between the 4 species?



egyptiandan said:


> You have a Desert tortoise, _Gopherus agassizii_, Jeff
> 
> Danny




Matt,
Regardless of which species it is, I don't think I can legally send it anywhere. Correct me if I am wrong, Danny? I am pretty sure It shouldn't even be here in IL, but I am guessing someone grabbed it years ago and brought it home perhaps thinking they were saving it. Who knows how long she has been here in Illinois. She looks quite old, and her previous owner had her for 6 years. As I said before that, she was found wandering the streets in a central illinois community.



matt41gb said:


> Hey, Jeff. If it's a "Texas" you have to send it to me! Ha!
> 
> -Matt


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## egyptiandan (Apr 24, 2010)

Texas tortoises are the only _Gopherus_ species that can be shipped. None of the other 3 species can be shipped.
I'm not sure, but I think you will have to get a federal permit to keep her.
Here you go Jeff http://www.chelonia.org/gopherus_gallery.htm

Danny


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## matt41gb (Apr 24, 2010)

Jeff, I was just saying that since I live in Texas of course.  But......... If you do want to send her this way, I wouldn't be opposed to the idea. Ha!

-Matt


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## Kristina (Apr 24, 2010)

Wait, Texas tortoises can be owned outside of Texas? With or without a permit? 

I too used to have a Gopher polyphemus, and it looks JUST like Gomer - The spot on the shell were it is split looks like an old injury. It definitely looks like it was raised in captivity to me.


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## egyptiandan (Apr 24, 2010)

Yes Texas tortoise can be owned outside of Texas without a permit. 

I agree with the raised in captivity and most likely CB. The no nuchal scute looks like a genetic defect to me.

Danny


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## Kristina (Apr 24, 2010)

HUH, I did not know that about the Texas torts (runs off to find one, lol.)


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## Candy (Apr 24, 2010)

I was right! Yeah I'm so happy because I did learn something from the one thread that was posted by Yvonne earlier (I think) this month where Danny had posted pictures of the Texas DT.  The face looks just like Fernando's, but the shell is a different color and darker like Danny had said. Anyway nice looking little girl congratulations.


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## Itort (Apr 24, 2010)

egyptiandan said:


> Yes Texas tortoise can be owned outside of Texas without a permit.
> 
> I agree with the raised in captivity and most likely CB. The no nuchal scute looks like a genetic defect to me.
> 
> Danny


Before we all go out looking for Texas Tortoises please check these out : www.tpwd.state.tx.us/huntwild/wild/species/endang/regulations/texas/index.phtml


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## Kristina (Apr 24, 2010)

LOL, Larry, really I was joking. I for one am many miles from Texas, and I don't have the climate to care for one. I should have made it clear that I was not serious. I would never take a wild native tortoise and try and keep it in captivity. I hate that my Hingebacks and Russians are wild caught, but, people setting up breeding groups is the only way that we will get captive bred populations of them.

Thank you for posting that and making me explain myself, I really did give the wrong impression, and it is good for everyone to know that our native species do need to be protected.


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## egyptiandan (Apr 24, 2010)

Didn't mean to say that you can go down to Texas to pick one up. Just that ones that came from Mexico ( a few came in a few years ago) and ones that are already out of the state of Texas are legal to own without a permit in most states. They aren't federally protected, so can be transfered from one state to another.
The ones that came in from Mexico were expensive Kristina, $1,500 each 

Danny


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## Fokkerdon (Apr 25, 2010)

Actually you need permit for Berlanderei (Texas) if in california, just the same as Agassizii.


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## Fokkerdon (Apr 26, 2010)

egyptiandan said:


> Didn't mean to say that you can go down to Texas to pick one up. Just that ones that came from Mexico ( a few came in a few years ago) and ones that are already out of the state of Texas are legal to own without a permit in most states. They aren't federally protected, so can be transfered from one state to another.
> The ones that came in from Mexico were expensive Kristina, $1,500 each
> 
> Danny


Danny,
They are federal protected under the ESA and are CitesII listed too, lest to the best of my info at this time. Is this just for the ones that are still in the wild/texas or does it also apply to all captive ones???


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## egyptiandan (Apr 26, 2010)

Don all tortoises are either CITES I or II. CITES has no bearing on whether animals can be shipped between states, just for import or export. The only thing that prohibits interstate travel (without a permit) is animals on our Endangered Species List. So I can ship Egyptian tortoises (CITES I animals) without a permit between states as they aren't on our Endangered Species List. Radiated tortoises (still a CITES I animal) are different though. You can't ship them (unless you have permits) between states as they are on our Endangered Species List.
The only native tortoises on our Endangered Species List is the Desert tortoise, _Gopherus agassizii_ and the Gopher tortoise, _Gopherus polyphemus_.

Danny


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