# Runny nose AGAIN!



## Vicki78 (Oct 26, 2013)

Can someone please shed some light on why oh why does my Sheldon keep getting a runny nose? 
He has had swabs taken & cultures done & tested for all viruses & all came back negative (phew)!
He also had his poop tested & that too came back clear.
All his temps are spot on. Ive upped his night time one to 27Â°c while his is snotty.
Most if the time he is his usual self. But there are days when he very quiet. 
Can someone please help?!


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## Tom (Oct 26, 2013)

What species? Star?

They are pretty prone to RI and it tends to be worse in cold or damp climates, even though the enclosure temps seem good.

Not speaking from personal experience, but some stars like it hot. Try keeping the whole enclosure at an ambient of no lower than 30 day and night for a while and see if that helps. You should still have a basking spot of 37ish.


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## Sulcata_Sandy (Oct 26, 2013)

If that doesn't help, saline nasal flushes can be very helpful in most cases. Since you cultured it, we've ruled out bacterial infection. So that leaves either viral (Herpes) or foreign body.

There is no test for Herpes. Their version is just like our cold sores, only presents with clear or slightly creamy discharge and bubbles, with increased respiratory sounds dying times of stress (which can include inappropriate temperatures ...like with seasonal changes.
Nasal flushes will help "blast out" mucus buildup.

If it's a foreign body, like a bit of substrate, same applies, it will flush it into the mouth.
If you have a cooperative tortoise, then it's pretty easy. Just need a supply of 0.9% Sodium Chloride, that I think you can find at a farm store near the cattle supplies, and a syringe.


Dang...can't type work poo today.

I meant, their type of Herpes presents like our cold sores...during times of stress you see an outbreak.


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## Vicki78 (Oct 30, 2013)

Many thanks for your help.
Yes Sheldon is an Idian Star & he has also been tested & cleared of the herpes virus too. 
He appears to be his usual self all in all but makes a snorting/sneezing sound & he even sometimes snaps his jaw (if that makes any sense)?
Is there any specific technique for flushing his nose?:-/


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## Sulcata_Sandy (Oct 30, 2013)

I use sterile saline (make sure it's the 0.9% solution)

I draw it out in a clean TB syringe (we recycle them at work, wash with soapy water and air dry) and draw out 1.0mL. Remove the needle!!!

I do this while Larry is getting his warm soak. Then I gently hold his head with my left hand, and with my right hand I quickly squirt 0.5mL into each nostril. Try to get a good seal.

It will rinse everything in his nasal passages into his mouth, and he may spit gunk out. After a week, Larry stopped sniffling and blowing bubbles. I'm going to continue another week.

There's a good chance he just had substrate up there causing irritation. It's very safe. Sometimes I flush, then hold him upside down and let the saline run out.


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## Yvonne G (Oct 30, 2013)

Runny nose is also a product of a stressful situation. Be sure his environment is totally stress-free, and try to leave him alone to be a tortoise without too much handling.


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## RaphsMama (Oct 30, 2013)

Whats a TB syringe? And where would you be able to find one? I need to try this but have no idea really where to get the stuff or exactly how to do it, very nervous

Or is there another way I could do it with a different syringe or something?


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## sibi (Oct 30, 2013)

If you can't get a syringe, go to the baby area of a drugstore, and they often have nasal syringes with saline solution that can also be used to flush nose discharge. Nasal syringes can also be used on torts.


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## Sulcata_Sandy (Oct 31, 2013)

sibi said:


> If you can't get a syringe, go to the baby area of a drugstore, and they often have nasal syringes with saline solution that can also be used to flush nose discharge. Nasal syringes can also be used on torts.



Excellent idea!
You can probably find a TB syringe at a feed store. They usually have a selection. Or ask your veterinary hospital if they can give you an handful of recycled ones. I've worked all over, and I've never worked at a hospital that didn't recycle syringes. They have a ton of uses.

I also agree with Yvonne's suggestion of stress. Runny Nose Syndrome, aka RNS, is just that...a "syndrome". By definition, we don't know the cause. It's idiopathic. I'd suggest starting from scratch...evaluate your enclosure, double check temps/humidity/substrate/food/decor are all species appropriate. Soak regularly, handle less. Take notes every day of your observations.

You know your tortoise better than we do. If you feel everything is ideal, then nasal flushes are your next step. They are very easy, honestly. Once you get into the groove, just takes 30 seconds. Larry hates it, but once back in his soak he seems to instantly forget and he enjoys the soak.


And a TB syringe is a tiny, 1mL syringe designed in inject a small volume of tuberculin antigen under your skin to test for TB. I use billions of them at work for injectable anesthetics.


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## AnnV (Oct 31, 2013)

I seem to be seeing my star's nose run again, as well. I wonder if it has to do with change in season. Our heat has kicked on for the first time since I've had him.
Shortly after I got him earlier this year, I went through the whole panic attack, vet visit, expensive $200 culture, antibiotics treatments, etc etc. 
I was so stressed it is a wonder I didnt come down with something.
He's been good until recently. The only handling he gets is soaking maybe 5 x per week. 
He is so reactive though, while soaking, he often snaps himself into his shell so fast he seems to come out sputtering. I often wonder if he hasn't just inhaled some water. 
In the past week or so I have heard some snitzing and he makes like he is trying to clear his airway, especially while eating. 

Talk of these saline flushes scares me. Mine is tiny (160 grams) and as stated, very shy. He can tuck his head in there pretty deep. Is it not possible for them to aspirate and develop pneumonia?


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## Sulcata_Sandy (Oct 31, 2013)

On a guy that size, I'd do 0.1mL saline.

No, that amount will not cause aspiration pneumonia. The saline will drain directly into the mouth. And if it did go into the lungs, 0.9% saline will be absorbed, and will not grow bacteria. This is the same preparation we use for tracheal washes, bronchial washes, and lung swabs.

If you are not comfortable, then don't try it. [SMILING FACE WITH SMILING EYES]

It's simply an excellent way to help flush debris and mucus from their nasal passages.


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## ascott (Oct 31, 2013)

> *Runny nose is also a product of a stressful situation. Be sure his environment is totally stress-free, and try to leave him alone to be a tortoise without too much handling.*



Such truth....sometimes we poke, probe and micro pester the torts that we can sometimes do more harm than good....."I" would set the tort up and be sure to set up proper temps and include proper hiding places (fake silk plants--remember, just saying what I would do ) and be sure the enclosure is not in a heavy foot traffic pathway...and well, let the tort be---especially since it sounds like it has been through the ringer of tests which means vet visits--huge stressor....


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## AZtortMom (Oct 31, 2013)

ascott said:


> > *Runny nose is also a product of a stressful situation. Be sure his environment is totally stress-free, and try to leave him alone to be a tortoise without too much handling.*
> 
> 
> 
> Such truth....sometimes we poke, probe and micro pester the torts that we can sometimes do more harm than good....."I" would set the tort up and be sure to set up proper temps and include proper hiding places (fake silk plants--remember, just saying what I would do ) and be sure the enclosure is not in a heavy foot traffic pathway...and well, let the tort be---especially since it sounds like it has been through the ringer of tests which means vet visits--huge stressor....



Well said [SMILING FACE WITH OPEN MOUTH]


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## Vicki78 (Oct 31, 2013)

Thank you all once again for all your comments. I will try the saline flush & see how we go. 
I must say Sheldon doesnt appear stressed. He is quite interactive. He often appears at his window, banging as to get out. In the summer we let him out in the garden (& he usually runs for cover) or we let him run round the living room (only for 10 minutes max). But now its cold here (in the UK) we dont let him out, but we give him tickles (under his chin) which he seems to like. After a few minutes he's content & gets back to mooching around. 
I will keep you all up to date as to how we get on. 
Once again thanks for all your comments.
Ps I fully understand the comment re vets bills we have spent over Â£400 on visits and tests.


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## ascott (Oct 31, 2013)

> doesnt _appear_ stressed.



They rarely do....the stress appears as behavior changes or health issues....


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## sibi (Oct 31, 2013)

I think the change of weather stresses all torts since it's a time for change (going inside for the winter, hibernating, change even of foods). It seems that runny noses increase with changes, whatever it is.


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## Vicki78 (Nov 4, 2013)

Just keep you all dated on Sheldon. 
We have bought a booger sucker upper (usually used for babues) & have started with the saline flushes. We are also reviewing his substrate (currently on co co coir) as it dries out quite fast & there was particles in his booger sucker upper.
We have ordered some cypress mulch to see if that helps. Failing all this I think it will be another trip to the vets.
I will keep you all updated.
Thanks all for your help.


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