# OXALATES WHAT ARE THEY ?



## N2TORTS (Dec 14, 2011)

Oxalates are natural compounds found in foods - especially plant-based foods - where they serve the useful purpose of protecting the plant from being eaten by bugs because of their bitter taste. Not only are oxalates present in plants and foods, the body manufactures oxalates from other substances - including vitamin C. Oxalates are hard to completely eliminate from the diet; but they can cause problems for people/animals who eat too many of them. The kidneys excrete oxalates into the urine
Eating a diet low in oxalates can reduce the risk of developing kidney stones . Kidney stones sometimes form when oxalates and calcium bind together. Decreasing the amount of oxalates that are present in the urine lowers this risk,
*Low Sources Of Oxalates
Fruits:
Apples, apricots (fresh or canned), avocado, bananas, cherries (sweet), cranberries, grapefruit, red or green grapes, lemon and lime juice, melons, nectarines, papayas, peaches, pears, pineapples, oranges, strawberries (fresh), tangerines
Vegetables:
Artichokes, asparagus, bamboo shoots, broccoli, brussels sprouts, cabbage, cauliflower, chayote squash, chicory, corn, cucumbers, endive, kale, lettuce, lima beans, mushrooms, onions, peas, peppers, potatoes, radishes, rutabagas, zucchini
*High food Sources Of Oxalates
Fruits.
figs, kiwi, plums, 
Vegetables 
rhubarb, Beans (wax, dried), beets and beet greens, chives, collard greens, eggplant, escarole, dark greens of all kinds, kale, leeks, okra, parsley, rutabagas, spinach, Swiss chard, tomato paste, watercress
Some Oxalate Triva ***
Oxalate and its acid form oxalic acid are organic acids that are primarily from three sources: the diet, from fungus such as Aspergillus and Penicillium and possibly Candida and also from human metabolism. Oxalic acid is the most acidic organic acid in body fluids and is used commercially to remove rust from car radiators. Antifreeze (ethylene glycol) is toxic primarily because it is converted to oxalate. 

JD~


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## Madkins007 (Dec 14, 2011)

To add a couple more bits...

In the diet, oxalates block absorption of calcium by bonding with the calcium. How much it blocks is affected by many variables. Heat seems to increase the effect, and vitamin A seems to decrease it. You can experience the basic effect by drinking milk after eating rhubarb. The grittiness you taste is the calcium bonding to the oxalates.

Oxalates can be fatal to humans in high enough doses in plants. Many plants with milky sap or gritty leaves (like rhubarb) are high in oxalates. Many species of tortoises in the wild eat plants so high in oxalates they are considered toxic to humans without visible harm- however, wild torts also seem to frequently have stones.

Oxalate levels in a plant vary- they can be high in stems or leaves and absent in flowers or roots. This is one reason some parts of rhubarb are edible and some are not.


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## telong (Dec 14, 2011)

nice share

btw, are jute leaves oxalate loaded? 
can't find infos bout these leaves for tortoises.
i've been feeding a lot of these to my torts lately
thanks


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## ethereal1 (Mar 7, 2012)

How can kale be both high and low in oxalates?


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## HtVic (Apr 13, 2012)

endive, kale, lettuce,chicory,scarole, dark greens of all kinds, are what tortoise owner usually feed their tortoises


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## Tom (Apr 13, 2012)

Good post JD.


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## Tropical Torts (Apr 14, 2012)

HtVic said:


> endive, kale, lettuce,chicory,scarole, dark greens of all kinds, are what tortoise owner usually feed their tortoises



This has always puzzled me. I have read about oxalates (Great post btw JD) and the plants listed seem to be what tort keepers feed their animals frequently. It has always bugged me because when I read about their harmful affects it makes me want to stop feeding certain foods however these foods seem to be fed on a regular basis. 

What the answer then? Feed collards escarole, dark greens, ect. or no?
If not then whats the alternative?


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## HtVic (Apr 14, 2012)

yeah, most important is, even though we feed them certain foods, 
out torts seem fine and healthy....
just dont understand


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## Tom (Apr 14, 2012)

jrcrist4 said:


> HtVic said:
> 
> 
> > endive, kale, lettuce,chicory,scarole, dark greens of all kinds, are what tortoise owner usually feed their tortoises
> ...



Alternatives (suitability varies by species and size): Spineless opuntia cactus pads and fruits, various grasses, dry grass hay, a huge variety of weeds (although some of these have relatively high levels of oxalates too), mulberry leaves, grape leaves, hibiscus and rose leaves and flowers, most of the lettuces are low in oxalates, Mazuri tortoise chow, ZooMed grassland or Forrest tortoise foods, Marion red sticks, self grown pasture mixes, clover, alfalfa, pumpkins, squash family leaves flowers and occasionally the squash too, mushrooms, peppers, etc....


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## N2TORTS (Apr 14, 2012)

Some key facts need to be remembered with oxalates. Tortoises usually get rid of 98 to 99% of the stuff in their stool and urine provided their gut is not leaky! The biggest issue with oxlates is that if one has a leaky gut you can absorb over 50% of them from the small bowel via the paracellular transport pathway. This is where most large proteins and molecules get absorbed. Oxalate is present in a lot of plants and fruit that tortoisesâ€™ eat. The oxalates act much like phyates and bind mineral metals at alarmingly high rates. One beneficial fruit that most tortoises enjoy and work well for a â€œ Kidney Cleanseâ€ and â€œOxalate flushâ€ is watermelon. Watermelon makes a great kidney cleanser because of its high concentration of water. Another key factor for supplementsâ€™ , especially Calcium. Calcium helps neutralize oxalates in the diet by binding with oxalate and then passed through the systemâ€¦â€¦

JD~


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## DesertGrandma (Apr 14, 2012)

Good info. Adding it to my fav threads.


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## Madkins007 (Apr 15, 2012)

My rule of thumb... I don't worry about oxalates in most foods, I just try to rotate things enough so a high-oxalate food this time is offset by a low one the next couple times. Even high oxalate foods often have enough other benefits that they are OK once in a while.

I find it really interesting that the Reptile Medicine and Surgery book does not make a big deal about oxalates.


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## paludarium (Oct 11, 2012)

Hi all,

I think most tortoise keepers come down with oxalate-hysteria.  I will never apply the study results of the mammals or the human beings on the tortoise. The kidneys of the turtles/tortoises are quite different from those of the mammals.

Accroding to the book "Medicine and Surgery of Tortoises and Turtles": 
*No clinical cases of oxalate urolithiasis have been documented in reptiles.*

I am not sure if the above mentioned statement is true for all reptiles, but so far as I research many of the tortoise studies, I do not find any single report on oxalate urolithiasis of the tortoise. In addition, many tortoises consume plants with high level oxalate in the wild, for example, _Oxalis_ spp. appeares to be an important food item for _Homopus signatus signatus_ in the wild. 

I concur that oxalates block absorption of calcium by bonding with the calcium. However, oxalic acid not only combines with calcium, but also with many heavy metals(Cu, Fe...) and mercury(Hg), which may cause poisoning if absorbed through the guts. Maybe that would be one of the benefits the tortoises eat high food Sources Of Oxalates, let along many other precious nutrients or/and contents in those plants. Who knows? 

Regards,
Erich


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## mchong9606 (Oct 11, 2012)

Thanks for sharing the info everyone.


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## GBtortoises (Oct 11, 2012)

Madkins007 said:


> My rule of thumb... I don't worry about oxalates in most foods, I just try to rotate things enough so a high-oxalate food this time is offset by a low one the next couple times. Even high oxalate foods often have enough other benefits that they are OK once in a while.
> 
> I find it really interesting that the Reptile Medicine and Surgery book does not make a big deal about oxalates.



Ditto!


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## acrantophis (Oct 11, 2012)

Great post! Thanks for the info!


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## mainey34 (Oct 11, 2012)

Thank you for sharing..


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## leonardo the tmnt (Oct 11, 2012)

Thanks for sharing


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## Laura Currado (Nov 12, 2012)

Found this wonderful chart that actually lists the oxalic content as well as the Calcium to Phosphorous ratio, plus the protein, fiber, water, and sugar percentages of a ton of greens, fruits, vegetables, etc. We were researching our Uromastyx diet, but found it helpful for our other reptiles.

http://www.moonvalleyreptiles.com/uromastyx/uromastyx-diet/plant-nutrition

Sorry if I've made it more confusing...


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## dannel (Nov 12, 2012)

How is Kale on both the high and low list? Great post btw!


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## LostMD (Dec 2, 2012)

I found a "survival guide" website for, you guessed it, surviving in the wild. One of the subsections on the website was for eatable foliage; it listed all different types of fruit, berries, leaves, fungi, and grass that are safe and not safe to eat. And the website talked about oxalates and its acid form and how it can be harmful to humans and is recognizable by a bitter taste. But the interesting part about this subsection was the paragraph discussing how to get rid of oxalates and oxalic acid by boiling the foliage for a good 5 or 10 min. I will try to find the website I am talking about. Does anyone have any more information on this; Iâ€™ll try and ask my organic professor next class period about this.


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## Madkins007 (Apr 27, 2014)

Lots of things affect oxalate levels, from the kind of soil, to cooking, to how it is measured, etc. Here is a good overall article on the topic: http://oxalicacidinfo.com/


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