# Oxalis or Clover - Whats in your garden???



## Crazy1

WhatÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s in your lawn or tort pen?

What you may think is Clover may not be.
Shamrocks, sour grass, wood sorrel, Oxalis or clover, which is in your yard? 
All of these plants looks similar and are known by many different names. Usually it is the flower that gives it away. 

Shamrocks in olden days were actually white clover. But Shamrocks or what is sold mainly these days as Shamrocks are actually Oxalis or wood-sorrels which are toxic to torts.
These are known by the names wood sorrel, woodsorrels, yellow-sorrels or pink-sorrels after the color of their flowers. Other species are colloquially known as false shamrocks, and some are rather misleadingly called "sourgrasses". For the genus as a whole, the term oxalises is also used. These plants have a clover shaped leaf but the flower ( in many different colors) is trumpet shaped.

Oxalis, (*toxic to torts*) called by several names (see above), the flowers are trumpet shaped and similar to each other though there is a variety of colors such as white, yellow, pink, etc. 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wood_sorrel
Oxalis





Sorrel




Oxalis _arborea 






Clover is also known as (Trifolium), or trefoil, it is *safe for torts*. The flower is rounded and sort of spiky.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clover
Here is a pic of a clover flower they too may come in a variety of colors such as white, red, crimson etc.
White Clover




Red clover




clover inflorescence 






_*Oxalates*_:
Plants that contain irritating substances known as oxalate salts. Contact with the sap may cause burning, swelling and pain. 
*Treatment:*
Rinse mouth, and if contact with skin, wash with soap and water. Observe for problems in swallowing and breathing, and increased drooling. Also check for irritation and swelling of mouth, lips, and tongue.

Spinach and beets contain some oxalates that bind dietary calcium, making it unavailable to the tortoise. Use in limited quanties or do not feed at all. Some plants contain high levels of oxalates as in the case of wood sorrel or Oxalis and eaten in high quantity[/i]: Consumption of oxalates (for example, the grazing of animals on oxalate-containing plants such as greasewood), or human consumption of Sorrel may result in kidney disease or even death due to oxalate poisoning. Many metal ions form insoluble precipitates with oxalate, a prominent example being calcium oxalate, which is the primary constituent of the most common kind of kidney stone and bladder stones in tortoises.


----------



## bettinge

This is a great note to sticky. A common mistake we have all made, and would continue to if we did not have resources like you. This answers questions many will have each summer.
Do you know the nutritional content of clover? Mine seems to graze on it often!


----------



## purpod

Wow Robyn, that's so bizarre!

I'm pretty sure that my "shamrocks" are indeed oxalis; and you know, Snortie Tortie would eat the entire plant if I let her! Actually, she _did _eat the entire plant, which was why the next time I found the plant, I did not plant it in the T-Town!

The others that I have are indeed the clovers (the ones near the torties pool) as they have those white fluffy flowers.

THANK YOU so very much for this clarification, Robyn!! You are the BOMB!
 
Blessings,
Purpod


----------



## Crazy1

Betts, this is what I have found thus far, 
http://www.pakbs.org/pjbot/PDFs/41(1)/PJB41(1)041.pdf

This is for dry clover hay:
Table 1: Typical nutrient content of hays fed to horses (as fed basis).
Hay Variety.........Crude Protein (%)......Calcium (%)...........Phosphorus (%)
Alfalfa...................15 to 20...............0.9 to 1.5...............0.2 to 0.35
Red Clover.............13 to 16................0.8 to 1.5...............0.2 to 0.35
Orchardgrass...........7 to 11................0.3 to 0.5...............0.2 to 0.35
Timothy..................7 to 11................0.3 to 0.5...............0.2 to 0.35
Bermudagrass..........6 to 11...............0.25 to 0.4..............0.15 to 0.3
Tall Fescue..............5 to 9.................0.3 to 0.5..............0.2 to 0.35
Sources: National Research Council, 1989; UK Equine Nutrition Program, 1999.

Red Clover
While not as high in nutrients as alfalfa, red clover will provide higher nutrient value than a grass hay like Timothy

White Clover
http://www.fao.org/docrep/v2350e/v2350e03.htm

I also sent a email to the the horticulture department of VA. Requesting the nutritional value of fresh clover. Will post if they return with the information.


----------



## tortoisenerd

Good post! Thanks as always. I too would like to know some of the nutritional contents for weeds and such. I have no problem finding them for human foods such as greens though. Tough question I know. I assume weeds are typically better than lettuces unless they are high in oxalic acid.


----------



## Gulf Coast

Thanks for the pictures.. It's always better for me to have a visual..Thanks for the hard work, helping us keep our shell buddies safe..


----------



## tortoisenerd

Cool about the clover! I think my tort mix has some of that. It's really taken off now that the tray is outside.


----------



## Crazy1

Weeds high in oxalic acid and greens that have Goitrogenic compounds as the ones indicated below if feed in excess. Are not good.

Goitrogenic compounds inhibit the uptake of iodine by the body, and poisoning is indicated by an increase in the size of the thyroid gland, which is clinically recognized as a goiter. There has also been some indication that members of the Brassica family, which includes cabbage, collards, kale and broccoli can cause goiter if fed in excess amounts, but the feeding of a varied diet that is not heavily based on these plants should offset this tendency. If in doubt about this a small amount of dried or powdered kelp can be added to offset this by increasing the amount of iodine in the diet. Many keepers make use of Brassica with no ill effect.

Or useless foods like cucumber or Iceburg lettuce unless fed for greater water intake.

The best thing to remember is variety.


----------



## lgdpt

Thanks Robyn, I still am not sure whats in my yard (no flowers today). I wonder what I should do if I have the wrong one.....


----------



## Crazy1

It seems that my DT will eat if if given the chance. I would try and rid your yard of it if it is in great abundance. If it is Oxalis. I personally had to let mine go to flower to find out what I had. Then I had to pull them up.


----------



## Maggie Cummings

Robyn...did you see the think clover in the pictures of Queenie outside? My yard is covered with thick New Zealand white and Crimson clover and all my animals eat clover daily, mixed with dandelions and plantain all growing in the yards. The day lilies are about to bloom and Bob will eat all the blooms there are next is the Rose of Sharon and the grape leafs and blackberry vines. All that stuff is growing in the yard and all my tortoises are eating for free. I love this part of the year for the food and treats that grow. The squash and pumpkin plants are grown simply for the big flowers that they put out for Bob...


----------



## Seiryu

Thanks for the post Crazy1. Luckily for me it seems I just have white and crimson clover and none of the bad stuff. At least the bad stuff hasn't flowered yet.

I don't think I'd let my tort free graze though. He'll get his own plants in the outdoor enclosure anyways that I know are good for him. Big 10x10 foot outdoor enclosure in the works for next year.


----------



## Isa

Really nice thread Robyn.
You are always so helpful . 
I will take a look at what is in my yard to be sure it is all ok. I already did but I want to make sure that the clovers I have in my yard are really clovers.
Thank you!


----------



## lgdpt

Robyn, when you pulled it up, did it stay gone? Im reading that its impossible to get rid of the stuff (without poison)because of the bulbs it forms under ground?

Im almost positive its the bad stuff.


----------



## Crazy1

No when I pulled it up by hand it just broke off. I had to actually dig it up with a shovel to get rid of it. It wasn't easy. I finally just dug up a pen down to 1 foot deep and took out all the plants. Then replanted it. No clover though so I could see if it was going to come back it has notin two years. So now I will plant clover in specific areas and keep an eye on it. I still have a little bit of the sour grass (as the grandkids call it) every time they come over they pull it up for me. but it is far from the tort pens. And if needed I could use chemicals in that area.


----------



## dannomite

Thanks so much Robyn. I have White Clover, its good to know!! I Was kind of worried about Nova eating them as I wasn't quite sure...but she loves em and my yard is full....thanks again!


----------



## purpod

G'Day Robyn,

 You are incredibly knowledgeable/resourceful & I just wanted to letcha know that you are very much appreciated! 

Thanx again,
Purpod


----------



## Seiryu

Can anyone tell me if these are for sure just clovers? (I hope the pictures worked and are clear enough).

The white clover I can definitely tell that it's a clover. However I have some yellow clover. That has the mini-pedals on it like the white/red but it's much smaller. Does not have heart shaped leaves and no huge pedals.

Ah. My picture size is too big. How does one lower the picture size, or can I not?

Found this. Looks exactly the same. http://farm1.static.flickr.com/123/404045206_3166f36802.jpg?v=0


----------



## Crazy1

Wow the more I look into clover the more I find that can be confusing. There are many subspecies of clover http://plants.usda.gov/java/nameSearch
Then there is what is called sweetclover which is different. http://plants.usda.gov/java/nameSearch
Seiryu, I am just not sure what it is.


----------



## Seiryu

I think mine is just Yellow clover, definitely not the sweet clover. Which I imagine, just regular yellow is Ok. But yes there are so many different clovers it's ridiculous lol.


----------



## Crazy1

Seiryu, regular yellow clover is fine.



purpod said:


> G'Day Robyn,
> 
> You are incredibly knowledgeable/resourceful & I just wanted to letcha know that you are very much appreciated!
> 
> Thanx again,
> Purpod



Thank you Purpod. I'ts always nice to know you are appreciated.


----------



## purpod

Hi Guys & Gals ~

I have those clovers with the little yellow flower things too, altho they are outside of my gate; the torties can't get to them.

And trust me, it's my pleasure to letcha know how good you are, Rob! Truly!

Blessings to all,
Purpod


----------



## lgdpt

I recently found information at the California Exotic Pest Plant Council website. Probably the best written information for the plant. I did find it amazing that the author did not consider Oxalis pes-caprae on his worry list until the late 1990's. He notes the way the plant reproduces across asphalt, since it does not produce any seed.


A lateral runner travels several inches at a time; it is a peculiar fat, translucent organ resembling an icicle, with emergent slender, white, one-inch shoots at the tip. It inserts itself into the middle of an already crowded clump of healthy natives, even into the tight center of a vigorous bunchgrass or rush, where it steadily burgeons, capturing space and light. Its roots compete with the bunchgrass and even with native shrubs such as coffeeberry or coyote bush. Whether this direct competition can weaken or eventually kill a shrub is not established, but it is certain that it will prevent a new generation of that or any other plant at the site.

What does the author recommend for control?


Eradication is difficult and time-consuming because of that bulb. Removing a small infestation in a discrete area is a feasible project. I was able to manually rid it from my garden, which contained many hundreds of oxalis plants, by persisting in removal of the above-bulb parts for four or five years [my emphasis]. Repeated timely removal of top-growth will deprive the bulb of its stored energy. Optimum time for this is winter or early spring just before it starts producing offsets. Placing fingers at soil level beneath the crown and pulling gently but steadily (two hands better) will frequently get the whole taproot, especially when growing in sand. The bulb will probably remain and still have some stored energy to produce more top-growth. A repetition of the preceding operation during the same season will either kill the plant or draw down its energy so severely that one more pull usually effects kill, providing it is well- timed and does not allow time for the bulb to recharge its energy. There is need for monitoring for an additional two years to make certain, as I have sometimes found a single small leaf hiding among other plants, slowly building up its bulb's strength for a comeback.


----------



## Crazy1

Travis what wonderful information. I applaud your research and persistance to eradicate this plant for your space.


----------



## Yvonne G

lgdpt said:


> Robyn, when you pulled it up, did it stay gone? Im reading that its impossible to get rid of the stuff (without poison)because of the bulbs it forms under ground?
> 
> Im almost positive its the bad stuff.



The stem going to the roots is very fragile and breaks off easily. The real problem with oxalis is the seed pods. As soon as it blooms, it develops seed pods that are filled with hundreds of tiny seeds. In a small space, if you keep after it, you can get rid of it. Just outside my front door I have a triangular space about 8 or 10 foot square that I have stepping stones and I planted dichondra seeds. I noticed that along with the dichondra sprouts the oxalis was starting to grow, so every morning I brought my little stool and a heavy spoon and sat there pulling up the little plantlets. Eventually I was able to free the area of oxalis. But its persistent. I have to check about once a week to be sure there is no more.

Yvonne


----------



## lgdpt

Crazy1 said:


> Travis what wonderful information. I applaud your research and persistance to eradicate this plant for your space.



Thank you. I have spent about one hour per day over the last 4 days pulling these little buggers out of my grass. Im not able to get the roots at all. (Boy is my back sore) I have a feeling this is going to be a LONG summer. But as of today, I dont think my torts can get to any of it. 

Im sure by next week it will be back though....

Every single yard in my neighborhood has it in the grass. I walked the block yesterday and saw it everywhere! I will probably have to fight it forever.

What do you all think about spraying to grass with a weed killer right when the torts go into hibernation? That way it would be gone by the time they wake up? After 4 months or more, I would think the poison would be gone....

Too much of a risk?



emysemys said:


> lgdpt said:
> 
> 
> 
> Robyn, when you pulled it up, did it stay gone? Im reading that its impossible to get rid of the stuff (without poison)because of the bulbs it forms under ground?
> 
> Im almost positive its the bad stuff.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The stem going to the roots is very fragile and breaks off easily. The real problem with oxalis is the seed pods. As soon as it blooms, it develops seed pods that are filled with hundreds of tiny seeds. In a small space, if you keep after it, you can get rid of it. Just outside my front door I have a triangular space about 8 or 10 foot square that I have stepping stones and I planted dichondra seeds. I noticed that along with the dichondra sprouts the oxalis was starting to grow, so every morning I brought my little stool and a heavy spoon and sat there pulling up the little plantlets. Eventually I was able to free the area of oxalis. But its persistent. I have to check about once a week to be sure there is no more.
> 
> Yvonne
Click to expand...



The hard part for me, is its in my grass. I have to look HARD just to see it. It is such a pain....


----------



## Yvonne G

In my horse pasture, I noticed that there were areas of grass where it grew real tall, and upon closer inspection, saw that those areas have oxalis and spurge in them. The horses don't eat that, so the grass grows tall. I have two pastures. The horses are on one pasture for one week, then moved to the other, and when that week's up, they're relegated to the barn paddock for a week. So the two pastures are watered and allowed to grow for two weeks with no horses. During that time, I spray the oxalis and spurge with a broad-leaf weed killer. After leaving the killer on the grass for 24 hours, you can then water safely. So for two weeks the weed-killer is watered and when its time for the horses to be back on that pasture, its safe for them. Maybe you can fence off an area at a time and spray weed killer, keeping the tortoises off until its safe to go back in there. Then do another section.??

Yvonne


----------



## lgdpt

Oh good! I can easily do that. I will wait to see what happens from all my plucking and then spray it after I fence it off. Thanks!


----------



## bettinge

Thanks for stickying this thread. Now we all have easy access to a great thread! Thanks again Robyn!


----------



## pollcolingwood

Its a good post, has helped me a lot.
Different classifications are given
here. Hence it also gives a clear 
identification of seeds.


----------



## Annieski

I thank you too! While at the store I found a box of organic clover SPROUTS--- after reading this info, I just wanted to be sure they were ok to give to Morty.


----------



## Tom

maggie3fan said:


> Robyn...did you see the think clover in the pictures of Queenie outside? My yard is covered with thick New Zealand white and Crimson clover and all my animals eat clover daily, mixed with dandelions and plantain all growing in the yards. The day lilies are about to bloom and Bob will eat all the blooms there are next is the Rose of Sharon and the grape leafs and blackberry vines. All that stuff is growing in the yard and all my tortoises are eating for free. I love this part of the year for the food and treats that grow. The squash and pumpkin plants are grown simply for the big flowers that they put out for Bob...



I know this is an old thread, but can someone confirm for me that pumpkin and or squash flowers are ok for torts. I walk by a 20-30 acre pumpkin and squash patch daily. The owners have repeatedly given us nearby residents permission to raid their fields anytime we want. In exchange for a few surplus pumpkins we all keep "poachers" out of their fields day and night. Seems like a pretty fair trade to me.


----------



## Yvonne G

I don't know what pumpkin has to do with oxalis, D) but to answer your question, the tortoises can and do eat all of the pumpkin/squash type plants. Only, if you pick too many of your neighbor's pumpkin flowers, he won't have many pumpkins.


----------



## mightyclyde

Well shucks. I looked into it further and found that my mounds of clover with they tiny yellow flowers is indeed oxalis. Hubby will be glad to rip it all out... I've been defending these weeds thinking they were ok for our boys! Ajax has eaten it once, and really enjoyed it. Back to square one.


----------

