# Reasons NOT to Get a Caiman or other Crocidillian



## TerrapinStation

My crazy brother is talking about getting a hatchling "dwarf" Caiman as a pet from an online breeder.

As much as I have tried to convince him that it is a TERRIBLE idea, not to mention probably illegal, he thinks it will be fun and exciting.

He has limited reptile experience, lives in Michigan (so would need to house animal indoors), works a lot and has a habit of getting really interested and involved in a hobby then totally ditching it and moving on to the next thing.

he is also stubborn and hard headed to the point that he would do this just because I told him it is a bad idea.

PLEASE any help/links/resources would be appreciated. If I can get him to look at information from experts it might convince him not to get it.


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## dmmj

my first question would be do dwarfs exist or is it just a marketing ploy?


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## Tom

dmmj said:


> my first question would be do dwarfs exist or is it just a marketing ploy?



Yes. There are dwarf, or just smaller species of caiman.


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## Tom

TerrapinStation said:


> My crazy brother is talking about getting a hatchling "dwarf" Caiman as a pet from an online breeder.
> 
> As much as I have tried to convince him that it is a TERRIBLE idea, not to mention probably illegal, he thinks it will be fun and exciting.
> 
> He has limited reptile experience, lives in Michigan (so would need to house animal indoors), works a lot and has a habit of getting really interested and involved in a hobby then totally ditching it and moving on to the next thing.
> 
> he is also stubborn and hard headed to the point that he would do this just because I told him it is a bad idea.
> 
> PLEASE any help/links/resources would be appreciated. If I can get him to look at information from experts it might convince him not to get it.



My question is: Does your brother have any crocodilian experience? Is he the kind of guy that will be responsible, house it correctly and meet its needs?


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## wellington

In Michigan, does he have a very large house with an indoor pond or pool? Otherwise, besides illegal in Michigan, it's pretty cruel if he can't house him properly in the winter months when it's an adult with room to roam and swim. Besides most end up being let go, cuz the idiots that get them don't have the room once it does get big. Now if it's really a dwarf, and not just starved to stay small, then is small enough as an adult it could possibly work. I would have one in a heart beat if I could give it a winter pool. Just tell him to do his research and if you see it being neglected, that you will turn him in. Yes I would turn in a family member if they abused or neglected an animal. Of course after a few warnings from me first to do it right.


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## TerrapinStation

Tom said:


> My question is: Does your brother have any crocodilian experience? Is he the kind of guy that will be responsible, house it correctly and meet its needs?



None at all. He loves animals and takes great care of his dog (another reason not to get a carnivorous reptile) and I think he might be committed to doing everything properly, but not for the 30+ years that a crocodile can live.


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## TerrapinStation

Tom said:


> Yes. There are dwarf, or just smaller species of caiman.




From what I found in a quick search, the "dwarf" variety only get to be 5-8 feet instead of 15-18 feet..... still a huge animal.


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## TerrapinStation

Thanks everyone. Unfortunately, I think I may need to do more of a "scared straight" approach with horror stories of keepers (and family/friends/neighbors) getting bit or losing a pet.

He has no pool, but he claims he can arrange a setup in the basement..... I am very skeptical.


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## GeorgeUK

Hey, Happy New Year! 

Although it's not impossible, it would require so much adaptation & research & sacrifice, that it's almost certainly not worth keeping a reptile like that unless you own a ranch or compound. 

I have seen them kept here in the UK (requires a Dangerous Wild Animal license) but all adaptations are thoroughly checked beforehand. Doing it without those checks & illegally could end in disaster (especially for the dog!). 

One of the reasons we have those checks in place for larger exotic animals is so that in the event of an emergency, a thoroughly planned response can take place. Usually law enforcement agencies will visit the property & agree on a plan of action should the animal attack. 

My employer's founded the local Reptile Society here in Northern England, and the members will sometimes come in & chat (for hours usually!) & I have heard some success stories but my Dad has also kept large exotic birds & primates and the adaptations required in my opinion take away all the fun of owning a dangerous animal.

Without those protection, I would be nervous.
Alas, this elderly gentleman here in England made it possible by sleeping in his loft & allowing the animal free roam of his home. 
Maybe suggest an alternative exotic pet instead?  

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...eps-7ft-crocodile-detached-bungalow-Kent.html


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## Tom

TerrapinStation said:


> Thanks everyone. Unfortunately, I think I may need to do more of a "scared straight" approach with horror stories of keepers (and family/friends/neighbors) getting bit or losing a pet.
> 
> He has no pool, but he claims he can arrange a setup in the basement..... I am very skeptical.




Well I've dealt with crocodilians quite a bit, and anything other than a baby is just not practical as a pet type of thing. The one's I've worked with are part of large animal menageries that are for hire for the film industry. They are all permitted and professionally housed and handled. Because of this fact, I don't have any horror stories to share. I've only ever seen it done right, as most people have enough sense to not bring a large aggressive reptile into their home. Having said that, it can be done and done well. I just question the why? There are so many other cool reptiles that would be easier to deal with and not so dangerous. Its like people who get Nile monitors. Why? You'll usually have a much easier time with a water monitor and its the same sort of enclosure set up.

Maybe @DeanS does? How about @cdmay ?


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## DeanS

I've kept Cuban crocs...and they are nothing short of EVIL...from hatchling on! they are lightning fast...and practically fly at their quarry. I also kept an alligator that I raised from a hatchling to six years. At seven feet and damn near 200 pounds, he was EASY to handle and not in the least bit aggressive~


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## DeanS

DeanS said:


> I've kept Cuban crocs...and they are nothing short of EVIL...from hatchling on! they are lightning fast...and practically fly at their quarry. I also kept an alligator that I raised from a hatchling to six years. At seven feet and damn near 200 pounds, he was EASY to handle and not in the least bit aggressive~


I kep caimans back in the 70s to feed my anacondas...but they were like $20 at the local pet shops.


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## DeanS

TerrapinStation said:


> My crazy brother is talking about getting a hatchling "dwarf" Caiman as a pet from an online breeder.
> 
> As much as I have tried to convince him that it is a TERRIBLE idea, not to mention probably illegal, he thinks it will be fun and exciting.
> 
> He has limited reptile experience, lives in Michigan (so would need to house animal indoors), works a lot and has a habit of getting really interested and involved in a hobby then totally ditching it and moving on to the next thing.
> 
> he is also stubborn and hard headed to the point that he would do this just because I told him it is a bad idea.
> 
> PLEASE any help/links/resources would be appreciated. If I can get him to look at information from experts it might convince him not to get it.


Your brother is right...it will be exciting! And he will get bitten...several times. Caiman, no matter what species, are plain nasty! NOT RECOMMENDED!


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## dmmj

I guess the best reason not to is if they are illegal in your state it won't be any fun keeping it. Can't show it off, 1 nosy neighbor you know the drill


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## N2TORTS

Well...............several factors to consider.


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## TerrapinStation

Tom said:


> Well I've dealt with crocodilians quite a bit, and anything other than a baby is just not practical as a pet type of thing. The one's I've worked with are part of large animal menageries that are for hire for the film industry. They are all permitted and professionally housed and handled. Because of this fact, I don't have any horror stories to share. I've only ever seen it done right, as most people have enough sense to not bring a large aggressive reptile into their home. Having said that, it can be done and done well. I just question the why? There are so many other cool reptiles that would be easier to deal with and not so dangerous. Its like people who get Nile monitors. Why? You'll usually have a much easier time with a water monitor and its the same sort of enclosure set up.
> 
> Maybe @DeanS does? How about @cdmay ?



Thanks Tom, I agree one hundred percent. If you can't do it correctly, do not do it at all. Leave the apex predators to the apex keepers, and get a chameleon......


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## TerrapinStation

N2TORTS said:


> Well...............several factors to consider.



Are those yours? Stunning creatures.


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## dmmj

TerrapinStation said:


> Are those yours? Stunning creatures.


not a very good argument against getting one they're awfully cute


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## TerrapinStation

dmmj said:


> not a very good argument against getting one they're awfully cute



Yeah, what the heck..... Not helping my case at all..... @N2TORTS probably has some awesome albino or morph varieties too.....


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## N2TORTS

TerrapinStation said:


> Yeah, what the heck..... Not helping my case at all..... @N2TORTS probably has some awesome albino or morph varieties too.....


Yes the " Cuvier's dwarf caiman (_Paleosuchus palpebrosus_) " is one handsome Herp when young.....but to be honest - crocodilians are definitely not suitable for beginners, and they are not recommended even for intermediate-level hobbyists, especially if your brother wants to try and keep the specimen indoors. Crocodilians should only be considered by very experienced individuals who have the resources and soon after... large demanding reptiles that are difficult to house, difficult to handle, and increasingly expensive to keep....Small juvenile crocodilians are deceptive - they seem easy enough to handle, but have a very nasty bite, that most times becomes infected. As they grow larger, crocodilians rapidly become stronger and even more boisterous. I have owned a few with the first one back in 1973. Yes the pictured animal was mine , but due to other projects -was sold off. They are also mostly nocturnal , so much of the viewing/interaction takes place at night....(sorta a drag -unless your a night owl)


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## TerrapinStation

Thanks N2TORTS. I am going to read all these responses to my brother verbatim, leaving out the cute picture you posted. Maybe when he sees that it is not just me, his buzzkill, scaredy-cat, pessimistic brother saying it is a bad idea, he will choose a different pet.


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## naturalman91

don't unless you can handle the care for longer term. it's just a bad idea, a friend of mine that lives in florida had a dwarf species of some kind thought he could handle it for long term well he lost his job and ended up putting the animal in the bathtub..... well i came to visit and had to use the bathroom unknown that he even had it opened the door turned on the light and almost got tagged by it needless to say i don't think my feet touched the ground

it wasn't until his cat went missing and pretty sure the croc got it that he admitted he couldn't do it anymore and surrendered it.


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