# Greek Tortoise VS Hermann's Tortoise



## Detach (Aug 13, 2017)

Hey everybody, I was planning on getting 4 Tortoises. I was going to get sexed ones as hatchlings (temperature method) and raise them up to be a breeding group. I was stuck between the Greek and the hermanns tortoise. I really like both of them but I didn't know which one to choose. The habitat would be big, 6 x 3. They would also have an outside habitat. Which of the species is better? Which one is ultimately more easy to breed? And which is be hardiest? Also if it's is the Hermann's or Greek, what is the best of their subspecies?


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## Detach (Aug 13, 2017)

bump


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## Eduardo Hernandez (Aug 13, 2017)

I hate to be a debbie downer, but 6x3 isn't big enough for 4 torts. Its not really big enough for one either.


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## Detach (Aug 13, 2017)

Eduardo Hernandez said:


> I hate to be a debbie downer, but 6x3 isn't big enough for 4 torts. Its not really big enough for one either.


I changed my mind and decided on one but are you crazy? A tiny hatchling needs a bigger enclosure then a 6 x 3? Everybody else on here has told me that is a good size that will last me years!


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## Eduardo Hernandez (Aug 13, 2017)

Oh sorry, yes a hatchling can definitely be in a small enclosure. I thought you meant you were keeping all 4 in there for life. Once they become adults, you definitely will need something much bigger.


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## GBtortoises (Aug 14, 2017)

Don't rely on "temperature sexed" as a method to guarantee the future adult breeding ratio. Eggs that are incubated to determine gender by means of Temperature sex determination (TSD) do not guarantee that a particular baby is the gender that it was incubated for. Using TSD incubation only increases the number of the specific gender within a clutch of eggs. More often than not there will be a mix of both genders within a clutch with the majority of offspring being the desired gender. No one can guarantee that they are selling you a specific gender based on TSD incubation. 

Greeks and Hermann's are not subspecies of each other. They are separate species which are each comprised of multiple subspecies. Hermann's have three subspecies commonly available. The Eastern, Western and Dalmatian Hermann's are all available as hatchlings. Easterns and Dalmatians are commonly available and lower in price. Westerns are generally much more expensive by comparison. As adults the largest of the Hermann's subspecies are the Easterns that can reach up to 9" but more commonly around 7" max. Greek tortoises are made up of several subspecies that are found throughout a very wide geographical area in from Northern Africa to Middle East to Eastern Europe. Their adult size, depending upon subspecies can get as large as 11", but most range in size from about 6-8".


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## Detach (Aug 14, 2017)

GBtortoises said:


> Don't rely on "temperature sexed" as a method to guarantee the future adult breeding ratio. Eggs that are incubated to determine gender by means of Temperature sex determination (TSD) do not guarantee that a particular baby is the gender that it was incubated for. Using TSD incubation only increases the number of the specific gender within a clutch of eggs. More often than not there will be a mix of both genders within a clutch with the majority of offspring being the desired gender. No one can guarantee that they are selling you a specific gender based on TSD incubation.
> 
> Greeks and Hermann's are not subspecies of each other. They are separate species which are each comprised of multiple subspecies. Hermann's have three subspecies commonly available. The Eastern, Western and Dalmatian Hermann's are all available as hatchlings. Easterns and Dalmatians are commonly available and lower in price. Westerns are generally much more expensive by comparison. As adults the largest of the Hermann's subspecies are the Easterns that can reach up to 9" but more commonly around 7" max. Greek tortoises are made up of several subspecies that are found throughout a very wide geographical area in from Northern Africa to Middle East to Eastern Europe. Their adult size, depending upon subspecies can get as large as 11", but most range in size from about 6-8".


Yeah I know they aren't subspecies of each other


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## Detach (Aug 14, 2017)

By the way I just wanted to clarify I am getting a leopard tortoise this post is for my friend who is getting a Greek or hermanns!


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## Detach (Aug 14, 2017)

He doesn't feel comfortable making online accounts for forums and stuff and I've tired to convince him it's fine here. Hopefully once he makes his decision he will make an account and post some pictures


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## tglazie (Aug 14, 2017)

Depends upon the subspecies. I can only speak from my experience, but middle eastern Greeks tend to suffer respiratory ailments more easily than do any Eastern Hermanns I've kept, but keep in mind that virtually all Testudo I've kept that fell ill were wild caught. I've never had a captive bred Hermanns or Greek suffer from respiratory problems. Eastern Hermanns are some of the hardiest tortoises I've ever kept, plus they are entertainingly energetic, generally speaking. Greeks are also this way; in fact, the most energetic, angry little tortoise I've ever owned is a southern Turkish Greek that I've kept for over two decades. I'm personally a big fan of marginated tortoises. They have a look that doesn't appeal to most, I figure, plus they do get larger than most Hermanns and Greeks, as well as being less frenetic in their behavior, but despite this, they all possess a demeanor that I find quite enjoyable, plus they're very hardy. Overall, each type has it's own positives. It really is a matter of taste. Regardless, their care is fairly similar across all these types. I will say that these tortoises do best when given a large amount of space. I just upgraded my eldest Greek Graecus to a spacious twelve by twenty eight accommodation, and he takes full advantage of it. Similarly, my biggest marginated Big Gino keeps the run of a twenty by seventy five foot space, and he grazes along the length of the paddock every morning (yes, that's huge, but believe it or not, Big Gino was always trying to escape his previous eight by eighteen enclosure; he turns into an absolute monster any time I bring him into an indoor enclosure during chilly October nights). These animals love to roam, and they will pace any perimeter with the fury of a confined pitbull when they don't have enough space at their disposal. But I'm veering off the main topic, so let me just wrap up by saying, get a captive bred baby of whatever species your friend likes, get it outdoors if at all possible, and give it lots and lots of space to do it's thing. 

T.G.


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## Mr. turtle (Aug 14, 2017)

Detach said:


> By the way I just wanted to clarify I am getting a leopard tortoise this post is for my friend who is getting a Greek or hermanns!


I am getting two baby leopard tortoises too! Do you know where you are getting them from? I know a good breeder that has alot of babies that he will be ready to sell in September! I cant wait to get my baby leopard tortoises!!! Good luck!!!!


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## the Turtle Shepherd (Aug 17, 2017)

dude, just tell him to get a russian tortoise, they are hardy and pretty much the same but smaller and less expensive


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## Detach (Aug 17, 2017)

Mr. turtle said:


> I am getting two baby leopard tortoises too! Do you know where you are getting them from? I know a good breeder that has alot of babies that he will be ready to sell in September! I cant wait to get my baby leopard tortoises!!! Good luck!!!!


Arizona Tortoise Compound is awesome id recommend them


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## Grandpa Turtle 144 (Aug 17, 2017)

Detach said:


> Arizona Tortoise Compound is awesome id recommend them


Yes Anthony is a great guy and a member of the TFO !


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## Dede21 (Oct 27, 2019)

I bought a tortoise for my daughter today as a first time owner. I was told it was a Russian tortoise by the pet store, but now I am not sure. I was told by two different people, that it was either a Tustedo or Hermanns. Can anyone help me?


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## JLMDVM (Oct 27, 2019)

Hi Dede21,
I’m sure that if you post some photos someone should be able to help. You will want clear photos of the top and bottom of the shell. You may want to consider posting a new thread. This one is older and may not get a lot of attention. You should also post photos of the enclosure, substrates used, lighting and temperatures and humidity levels. So many knowledgeable people here to help us newbies!


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## Dede21 (Oct 27, 2019)

I attempted to post photos, however I kept getting errors.


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## method89 (Oct 28, 2019)

both russians and hermanns are testudo. once you can post pictures, we'll be able to clarify what you have.


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## Dede21 (Oct 28, 2019)

For some reason I get an error message everytime I try to upload pictures.


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## method89 (Oct 28, 2019)

It's not you, it the forum. It's been an issue for all the last few days.


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## Dede21 (Oct 28, 2019)

What I can tell you is my tortoise does have the spur tail. The plastron has two longitudinal lines (broken once at the top). It has the cheeks spots under each eye in yellow color. 
When I went to the pet store, it was labeled Russian tortoise. I questioned it with the associate and they assured me it was not a tustedo. Now im thinking Eastern Hermanns. Man, I just want to know so I can take care of him/her properly.


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## method89 (Oct 28, 2019)

Sounds like an Eastern. The good news is that both Russians and eastern have very similar care sheets. I have a hatchling Western and I reference both sheets all the time. Check them out for all the basics.


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