# The Mighty Odin's indoor oasis-The Build



## Odin's Gma (Sep 12, 2015)

6x6 with 3 separate sections and climates, incorporating his current enclosure which is 4x2 and 12" high. Rough sketch:



Overall: U-shaped with the larger wing being a 6'x3'x18" high completely enclosed greenhouse not including the greenhouse portion. The greenhouse will add another 3 feet in height above the base.
Inside the greenhouse a 4ft fluorescent hanging light fixture with grow bulbs, substrate @ 6 inches deep (mix of organic soil, peat moss and coco coir) and fully planted.

First things first. Assembling and checking out the greenhouse:





With me for scale. 


Give me an inflatable mattress and a 6 pack of beer and I can camp out in this baby!


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## Yvonne G (Sep 12, 2015)

All I can say is "WOW!!!" I can hardly wait to see it all finished and occupied.


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## Oxalis (Sep 12, 2015)

I love it! I can't wait to see more! Tonight is our biggest fund-raiser for my nonprofit local history group so it will be an exhausting day for my fiancée and I. It will be nice to see a lovely tortoise house on the way when we get home.


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## Odin's Gma (Sep 12, 2015)

Well, the boy still isn't home from work, and my cleaning and furniture moving in the room the enclosure is going to reside is done, so......





But don't worry! I've got supervision.




And I don't know why the date on my camera is wrong, i'm going to have to try and fix that while I take a break.


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## Odin's Gma (Sep 12, 2015)

Base framing for both new boxes done. Large box 71"x36" (to match the greenhouse dimensions) and small box 24"x36", both made with 2"x3" pine. The two boxes will not be permanently joined, nor will the third (his current enclosure) for ease of eventual relocation if necessary.




My problem now is that I don't think I can move that giant (8'x4') piece of nearly 3/4" thick plywood out of the garage by myself in order to start cutting the base pieces.


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## Odin's Gma (Sep 12, 2015)

Well, I had to wait for the muscle to drag that board out, but now I have helpers! Odin's Dad and Mom (my son and his girlfriend) are here so we are moving again! The nearly 3/4" plywood base is screwed and liquid nailed to the frame and it feels as sturdy as the concrete floor it is resting on.

We also have a different cat supervising (judging) our progress.




But he looks good doing it!


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## Odin's Gma (Sep 12, 2015)

We had to call it quits on account of darkness and lack of food, but we have a decent start. Still have SO much left to do, but at least we have a start!

The sides are 16" high and roughly 1/4" thick plywood and will be framed with 2x3" s both for stability and for attaching the greenhouse.




Also, another trip to Lowes. (have you ever had a project that_ didn't _require multiple trips? I have not)
We will need longer chains for the 4' light fixture that will hang inside the green house and larger S hooks to attach the chains to the top frame of the greenhouse . The current chains only hang down @ 10", which I think will be too close to the plastic cover. I want it to hang @ 16 inches down, closer to the area where the A frame portion ends.


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## Oxalis (Sep 13, 2015)

Wow, hardcore! Way to go so far; it's looking good! 

I have Steve' lamps on a chain that hangs from the ceiling. In the cooler months of the year, we move the lamp down a link or so if needed so he can stay warmer. In the warmer months, we'll move it back up for him. It's been working quite well! (The wood in the photo is just one of the fan blades.) I know the cords hanging down in the middle of the room look kind of tacky, but we couldn't think of any other solutions for them.


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## Odin's Gma (Sep 13, 2015)

Taking a few minutes to brag about the fact that I just used my new reciprocating saw! Never used one before and I must say that it is WICKED fun!

Before:




After:



YAY me!

The box has 2x3 framing on the top and as uprights on the corners where the boxes don't butt up against each other. Still need a piece across the top left in the above photo, which I am going to go out and cut now. The top piece is to hold a cap board where we will hide the ends of the liner underneath.


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## Odin's Gma (Sep 13, 2015)

Both doorways cut and all framing complete for the small connector box!





Now, since my son has been at work all day and I have been working by behind off, I'm going to go outside and take an Odin break.


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## Oxalis (Sep 13, 2015)

Aw, I like it so far! Looks roomy!


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## Odin's Gma (Sep 13, 2015)

Oxalis said:


> Aw, I like it so far! Looks roomy!


That's only the "hallway", I can't wait to get the greenhouse finished!

Odin has no interest in any of this....he just wants us to be quiet about it.


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## Odin's Gma (Sep 13, 2015)

Greenhouse box nearly done, just need to cut out the doorway, then we are on to Drylok-ing them and then lining and then capping the tops and then.... Oh yeah, nowhere near done....
But it's something, right?

*so tired*


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## DawnH (Sep 13, 2015)

One day, I hope my computer will load these images SO I CAN SEE THEM!!!


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## Oxalis (Sep 14, 2015)

Awww, you're doing so much for such an adorable little baby! <3 I love it!

Odin just gets cuter every day!


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## Odin's Gma (Sep 14, 2015)

Oxalis said:


> Awww, you're doing so much for such an adorable little baby!


Every time I think about how much work there is to yet to do I get so overwhelmed and think that we bit off WAY more than we can chew, but we are plugging along and I know it will all be worth it.
Tonight after work I am hoping to get the interiors of both new boxes Dryloked and then in another day or two get everything caulked and sealed so hopefully this weekend we can get the greenhouse attached and the boxes filled with soil. Then it is on to planting and monitoring temps and humidity so we can get to tweaking.
The addition of his current enclosure and the modifications to it will have to wait until the new wings are complete. 

My conservative estimate is that he will be in the new digs full time by early October. That seems both too soon and way too far off.


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## Odin's Gma (Sep 14, 2015)

Change of plans, no enclosure fun tonight. I will be working a 14 hour day, minimum, and my son is putting in OT also.


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## Oxalis (Sep 14, 2015)

Aww, good luck with 14-hour shift!! HUGS!


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## Odin's Gma (Sep 17, 2015)

Well, the 14 hour shift was followed by two 12 hour shifts and today is at nearly 13 hours and counting. My sons work week has been nearly as bad. 
Tomorrow I am going to shoot for a short day if all goes well at the conclusion of our exit meeting later, if not, I guess I will try and cram as much into the weekend as humanly possible. 

So disappointing.


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## Oxalis (Sep 17, 2015)

Aw, I'm sorry to hear that. Good thing Odin will be living a long, healthy life with you guys, so he's most likely quite patient!  More hugs!


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## Prairie Mom (Sep 17, 2015)

This is going to be AWESOME! Lucky little Odin


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## Oxalis (Sep 17, 2015)

Prairie Mom said:


> This is going to be AWESOME! Lucky little Odin


For sure! You can see a lot of love and care in this project already!


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## Odin's Gma (Sep 17, 2015)

Oxalis said:


> Aw, I'm sorry to hear that. Good thing Odin will be living a long, healthy life with you guys, so he's most likely quite patient!  More hugs!


I don't think it's patience as much as having zero interest in what the humans are doing as long as he has lotsa noms to keep him busy!


Prairie Mom said:


> This is going to be AWESOME! Lucky little Odin


I sure hope so. I have never built anything quite like this so every detail is being over-thought to death. My poor son is so irritated with me! Every time we discuss and decide on something I will come back the next day with 17 new thoughts and ideas. He said I am terrible to work with. 

But he did say my husband is even worse.


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## Oxalis (Sep 17, 2015)

I know it will come out great because you're all putting so much energy into it!  My fiancée and I argued a bit over both indoor and outdoor enclosures but we couldn't be happier on how they turned out now (except of course waiting to increase the size of the indoor one -- c'mon, the little dude has his own bedroom anyway...)! XD


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## Odin's Gma (Sep 18, 2015)

Oxalis said:


> c'mon, the little dude has his own bedroom anyway...)! XD


After we finish, so will Odin, and rightly fully so. The Allfather can't be sharing a room with his dad, right?


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## Oxalis (Sep 18, 2015)

Odin's Gma said:


> After we finish, so will Odin, and rightly fully so. The Allfather can't be sharing a room with his dad, right?


AWWWWWWWWWW cute!


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## Odin's Gma (Sep 19, 2015)

FINALLY back to work!

Last night I got the last doorway cut out.



Reciprocating like a boss!



This morning I sanded down all the rough edges and got the room vacuumed up. Also found out that at this point I can still move the boxes around despite them being a whole lot bigger than me! 
Not gonna lie, I totally felt like a superhero.




Then a coat of drylok. 
I'm on the fence about whether we really need a second coat as all the edges and cracks are going to be sealed and it is going to be fully lined, but I have 3 hours to think about it.


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## johnandjade (Sep 19, 2015)

can't wait to see this finished great job!!


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## Odin's Gma (Sep 19, 2015)

johnandjade said:


> can't wait to see this finished great job!!


Thanks! I am looking forward to seeing yours finished also, very impressive!


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## johnandjade (Sep 19, 2015)

Odin's Gma said:


> Thanks! I am looking forward to seeing yours finished also, very impressive!




it's been a leaning curve i can tell you!


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## Odin's Gma (Sep 19, 2015)

johnandjade said:


> it's been a leaning curve i can tell you!


I hear that! 

_*whispers*_ 
_Don't tell anyone, but I have no idea what the heck I am doing. _


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## Odin's Gma (Sep 19, 2015)

In other news, I am going to go with 2 coats of Drylok. First off, it is recommended, secondly, after reading the manufacturers information online, it takes a week to safely cure before using as a pond sealant, so, even though the wet soil is not going to be in direct contact with it, It just seems prudent to err on the side of safety. So, second coat in a couple of hours and then caulking all the seams. Not sure if we should do the liner tomorrow or wait until next weekend? It says you can paint it after 24 hours.......
Ugh. Probably wait, right? More airflow for curing more better....boo!!!!! Patience is not strong suit.


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## Careym13 (Sep 19, 2015)

Looking good!!


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## Odin's Gma (Sep 19, 2015)

Careym13 said:


> Looking good!!


Thanks!

Second coat of Drylok complete, no pics because, seriously, it looks the same as the previous pics, only whiter.
Later today, caulking seams, this is NOT the fun part of the build. 
I want to get to the greenhouse and the planting already!!!!!!


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## Odin's Gma (Sep 19, 2015)

I have been stressing about the weight of the light hanging from the greenhouse frame and I was sick of it!
So.....BAM! Light frame inside the greenhouse!


Just a few 2x3's screwed into the frame, also dryloked.


This is the sort of thing that happens when my son leaves me alone, so, if he doesn't like it, it is his own darn fault!


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## Odin's Gma (Sep 19, 2015)

All seams now caulked.

On another note, I really need this build to go faster! I brought Odin a snack of opuntia, aloe and a dandelion flower along with his new weekly garden tray, and he just looks ginormous in his tiny enclosure now.
I know he probably still looks small to many of you, but he has grown a ton this summer.


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## Oxalis (Sep 19, 2015)

Dang, hardcore! ;D


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## Odin's Gma (Sep 20, 2015)

Checking my specs. 
We are looking at an overall height of 54 inches and about 6.5 feet when the cap boards are added. 
I cut the chains long so I could adjust the height of the grow lights. Because of the light frame we won't need pipe clamps to hold the greenhouse frame on the ends, just the sides (score one for my measuring skills!)
Also, the 48" light fixture leaves enough room (nearly 2 feet if the light is slid to one end) to add a hanging CHE if additional heat is required in the greenhouse.




Another measuring win for me! The doors are darn near perfect!




I don't see anything else getting done today because of the curing time needed for the Drylok and caulk. 

Temping the ambient room temp overnight and the highs and lows are in the high 60's, but keep in mind we have not yet turned on the house heat for the winter. We also have an oil heater to boost the room temps and when all of the enclosure lights and heat elements are in place that will also raise the temp significantly. I picked up a thermometer/hygrometer with a probe so I can monitor the temps in the room and the greenhouse when all is said and done.
I am also going to change out one of the existing room outlets and install a GFCI just to make me feel a little better.

So, am I missing anything so far?


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## DawnH (Sep 20, 2015)

Seriously awesome, and I totally agree!! Odin has gotten huge this summer!!


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## Oxalis (Sep 20, 2015)

Woah, insane! That will be one super spoiled tortoise!


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## Odin's Gma (Sep 20, 2015)

DawnH said:


> Seriously awesome, and I totally agree!! Odin has gotten huge this summer!!


I know, right? He is a beast! 



Oxalis said:


> Woah, insane! That will be one super spoiled tortoise!


Yeah....I think we can agree that that ship sailed some time ago.



Since I couldn't do anything for the actual build today I instead ended up obsessing madly over it and made a couple executive decisions. First off, I ordered a heating cable for the greenhouse. I know that many here don't recommend them but I will do my due diligence in safely securing it as deeply as possible, and I really think with our set-up and location it will be beneficial. It will only be in the greenhouse portion and it is more to maintain Odin's "restaurant" than for heating.
Also....I kind of accidentally did some research on banana plants and found a super dwarf variety that i only supposed to get 2-4 feet high! Obviously, I had to order one for the greenhouse. 

Don't judge me.


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## Oxalis (Sep 21, 2015)

Very cool; I would love a cute little banana plant too!


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## Odin's Gma (Sep 21, 2015)

Oxalis said:


> Very cool; I would love a cute little banana plant too!


I ordered from here. 
http://www.greenhousebusiness.com/bananaplants.html

One super dwarf and one Blue Java, they say it tastes like ice cream, What?!?


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## Paschendale52 (Sep 21, 2015)

How much drylok did it take so seal that guy with two coats?


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## Odin's Gma (Sep 21, 2015)

Paschendale52 said:


> How much drylok did it take so seal that guy with two coats?


About 2/3-3/4 of a gallon.


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## Paschendale52 (Sep 21, 2015)

Oh fantastic! I'm looking at sealing a smaller box, and had read that it might take more than 1 gallon.


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## Odin's Gma (Sep 21, 2015)

Paschendale52 said:


> Oh fantastic! I'm looking at sealing a smaller box, and had read that it might take more than 1 gallon.


I used a brush rather than a roller, since wood is smoother than masonry, but having used it on masonry in the past, I can tell you that with brick or masonry you will need A LOT more than you think. For wood it is much more wallet friendly and it really did a great job of sealing the small seams between boards. I still caulked them all anyway, but I bet I could have skipped the smaller ones if I had wanted to.


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## Oxalis (Sep 21, 2015)

Is there a worry that at some point, the Drylok could flake off and Odin could accidentally consume some? A scary thought, but I figured I would ask since I have the plastic liner over my enclosure -- which is not foolproof since Steve rips it burrowing into it! Silly tort!


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## Paschendale52 (Sep 21, 2015)

There was a guy posting in a thread earlier saying that he used it in terrariums with monitor lizards and their big claws couldn't scratch the stuff up. Not speaking from experience here, but if it can stand up to that I'd think its probably fine. I know people make full aquariums out of plywood and drylok so it doesn't seem to be that flaky.


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## Odin's Gma (Sep 21, 2015)

Oxalis said:


> Is there a worry that at some point, the Drylok could flake off and Odin could accidentally consume some? A scary thought, but I figured I would ask since I have the plastic liner over my enclosure -- which is not foolproof since Steve rips it burrowing into it! Silly tort!


Not really, that stuff adheres very well and even in constantly wet masonry applications I have not seen issues with flaking unless it was applied to an unclean / oily surface. Plus, I figure if it is safe when fully cured for pond sealing application, it should be more than safe in this one. 

Also, the boxes will be fully lined poly over the Drylok.


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## Magilla504 (Sep 21, 2015)

Odins new house looks great! I love the amount of effort that you have put into your new enclosure. Looks like high quality work!

I have never used drylok with the tables I built so I have no clue how it holds up. Another idea that has worked well for me is to line the enclosure with cheap vinyl flooring. It's water proof with a little caulk at the edges where the seems comes together.

Also, another cool feature I like to add is a deep burrowing tub. I buy the thick plastic concrete mixing tubs at the hardware store. Then I will measure and cut the floor so that it drop in place. I'll add a few 2 x 3's under the frame for extra support.After a few screws and some caulk to seal the edges it's good to go. Now Instead on having to fill my tables up with tons of substrate I can have 3 or 4 inches plus however deep the tub is. It gives my Russians plenty of depth to burrow and it's very cheap to add to an enclosure. Also saves me on all the extra substrate that it would take to deep fill a large indoor enclosure.


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## Odin's Gma (Sep 21, 2015)

Magilla504 said:


> Odins new house looks great! I love the amount of effort that you have put into your new enclosure. Looks like high quality work!
> 
> I have never used drylok with the tables I built so I have no clue how it holds up. Another idea that has worked well for me is to line the enclosure with cheap vinyl flooring. It's water proof with a little caulk at the edges where the seems comes together.
> 
> Also, another cool feature I like to add is a deep burrowing tub. I buy the thick plastic concrete mixing tubs at the hardware store. Then I will measure and cut the floor so that it drop in place. I'll add a few 2 x 3's under the frame for extra support.After a few screws and some caulk to seal the edges it's good to go. Now Instead on having to fill my tables up with tons of substrate I can have 3 or 4 inches plus however deep the tub is. It gives my Russians plenty of depth to burrow and it's very cheap to add to an enclosure. Also saves me on all the extra substrate that it would take to deep fill a large indoor enclosure.


Thank you! My son and I are both pretty handy, but this is a bit out of our wheelhouse so it's great to hear positive feedback!

I would love to save a bit of money (and weight) on the substrate, but since the greenhouse will be heavily planted, I think 6 inches will be the minimum I can get away with, particularly for my cute little banana plant I ordered! (squee!)


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## Oxalis (Sep 21, 2015)

Thanks for the link to the banana tree!! I'll definitely be checking that out later!! 

Thanks again for the Drylok tips as well -- I'll look into that too.


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## Magilla504 (Sep 21, 2015)

I love it the way it is. I have been wanting to add another section to one of mine to create an L shape like yours that I can close off. Looks like yours might sit on the ground. I always build mine with legs so that's how i put the drop tub in.

By the way, for someone who is "in over their head," it looks awesome! 

Goodluck!!!


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## Magilla504 (Sep 21, 2015)

Actually you said "bit out of your wheelhouse." Oops , lol.
either way you all are talented tortoise table makers!


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## Odin's Gma (Sep 21, 2015)

Magilla504 said:


> Actually you said "bit out of your wheelhouse." Oops , lol.
> either way you all are talented tortoise table makers!


No matter how you phrase it, I am making it up as I go along and have no idea if we are on the right track!

When all is said and done, it will be a U shape. We still have to add on his small (2x4') current enclosure. The different zones were decided on for a couple of reasons, first, for ease of moving them if we ever have to (one huge 6x6 box is not going to be easily moved), second, I wanted different climates for different plants. The greenhouse is going to be for the higher humidity and light plants, the small section pictured will be for moderate light and humidity plants (it will only be partially enclosed) and the final section will be drier and hotter, for cactus and basking. I am also hoping that by utilizing his current enclosure it will give him a sense of familiarity during the transition so he doesn't get all "Mr. Pissy Pants" on us.
The layout was decided on because, we are hoping, with the turns and doorways and different areas, it will seem bigger to him while on patrol. Walking around a square box is pretty straightforward and dull, but having three different boxes with three different climates might make it more interesting for him.

I know, I know. I WAY overthought the whole thing......


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## naturalman91 (Sep 21, 2015)

It'll be worth it trust me I have the exact same green house for about a year now and its pretty much bioactive I don't have to do Much besides spot cleaning and pruning some of the plants 

The water in the soil evaporates causing condisation on the plastic which just falls back into the dirt so I never have to worry about humidity 

What are you planning on doing with the excess plastic off the green house the plastic on mine extends past the frame of the green house by like 6-7 inches if you don't do anything the condensation will leak onto the floor


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## Odin's Gma (Sep 21, 2015)

naturalman91 said:


> It'll be worth it trust me I have the exact same green house for about a year now and its pretty much bioactive I don't have to do Much besides spot cleaning and pruning some of the plants
> 
> The water in the soil evaporates causing condisation on the plastic which just falls back into the dirt so I never have to worry about humidity
> 
> What are you planning on doing with the excess plastic off the green house the plastic on mine extends past the frame of the green house by like 6-7 inches if you don't do anything the condensation will leak onto the floor


 I was going to leave it hanging inside the box. The whole box will be lined with poly all the way to the top, and then capped with a board (The cap board will support the greenhouse frame) so no moisture from the condensation will touch any wood and will all remain contained.


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## Oxalis (Sep 21, 2015)

Nicely done! Hilarious: "Mr. Pissy Pants" XD I like the idea of the U-shape. This idea would work out great in an L-shape for my Russian (with the space we have available) and was pretty much how I am planning it in my mind. And this greenhouse idea is sounding better and better! @naturalman91 do you have some photos of your enclosure? I need some inspiration!  Thanks!


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## Odin's Gma (Sep 22, 2015)

Oxalis said:


> . And this greenhouse idea is sounding better and better! @naturalman91 do you have some photos of your enclosure? I need some inspiration!  Thanks!


That is the part I am most looking forward to, but have not had much luck in finding photos for inspiration either. Seeing it in my head is one thing, I want to see it in real life!
I can't wait until this weekend!


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## Oxalis (Sep 22, 2015)

I had the same feelings for anticipation at the beginning of the spring this past year, when we started building the outdoor enclosure/garden. It was so cool seeing it come together!!  It will be super cool for you as well; I know it! ;D


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## naturalman91 (Sep 23, 2015)

I'm having computer problems so I'm on my phone I'm not sure how to upload photos but if you click on my profile and go to all postings by this profile and look for greenhouse enclosure or search greenhouse enclosure and find the one with my avatar pic that's mine but it's been heavily planted with spider plants, Boston ferns and spiderwort


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## naturalman91 (Sep 23, 2015)

I was able to upload a old photo but like I said been more planted since then


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## Odin's Gma (Sep 23, 2015)

Thanks for the pic, now I am even more excited! This weekend can not come soon enough!


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## Oxalis (Sep 23, 2015)

Woah, very cool!!  Looks like some good humidity in there too!


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## Odin's Gma (Sep 24, 2015)

Seeing @johnandjade 's progress today inspired me to get a little bit done tonight.

Small box lined with heavy duty shower curtain:



A scene from one of Dexter's kill rooms:




My "little" guy cramming himself in the greenhouse to tidy up a few ends:



And one of the cats enjoying what will likely be his last opportunity to enjoy the box:



Working with that poly was a GINORMOUS pain in the behind! It was just so big and hard to get the two layers mostly smoothed out.


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## Oxalis (Sep 24, 2015)

You did an awesome job!!!


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## johnandjade (Sep 24, 2015)

its going to be awesome!!!


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## Odin's Gma (Sep 25, 2015)

I hope so! It seems to be taking FOREVER! We still have to do the cap boards to cover the poly ends and anchor the greenhouse frame on the sides, which hopefully I will have time to do tonight after work. Other than that, the heating cable has been delivered and I picked up the landscaping mesh and zip ties to hold that down, my son picked up what is hopefully the rest of the soil last night, and of course I have more than enough plants and seeds, so by the end of the weekend we should have a fully functioning greenhouse!
Of course we are still awaiting delivery on the additional timer and heat lamp fixture, AND we still have to move and revamp his current enclosure to add it on.......but, greenhouse!


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## johnandjade (Sep 25, 2015)

slow and steady wins the race


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## Odin's Gma (Sep 25, 2015)

johnandjade said:


> slow and steady wins the race



Indeed!


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## Odin's Gma (Sep 25, 2015)

And I just got a text that my thermostat will be delivered today also! YAY!


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## johnandjade (Sep 25, 2015)

Odin's Gma said:


> And I just got a text that my thermostat will be delivered today also! YAY!


 

woo hoo


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## Odin's Gma (Sep 25, 2015)

Getting ever closer to the fun part!

While the boy and I were working on cap boards the hubby finally got involved! He has been joking that when Odin is done with it it can be his coffin, so he had to check it for comfort. He said if he gains a few more pounds it will not be deep enough, but otherwise he was pleased.



I cut the mesh and laid out the heating coil (upside down):




Then removed it and laid about a half inch of peat moss



Before flipping it over and laying it back it.



Of course I took a peek from tort level while the boy hauled in SO. SO. many pounds of top soil and peat moss, and a bag of organic compost




We stopped at about 4 inches deep for tonight. Tomorrow morning I will start transplanting his snacking trays and various plants and filling in with even more soil, peat moss and coco coir. 

Oh, and on the edge of the greenhouse? That's my beer. I'm going to finish that and then have another to celebrate!


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## Odin's Gma (Sep 26, 2015)

The planting has begun!
I transferred chunks of grass and weed sod from his snacking trays, added the small hibiscus, some aloe and a nice healthy spiderplant, filled it up to the doorways with more soil and sprayed all the plants with diatomaceous earth since they have been outside all summer. Now I am letting everything sit for a bit while I pick the dirt from underneath my nails and fire up the heating coil for the first time. Later I will attach the frame to the cap board, put on the greenhouse tent, start to seed and water everything in, and then the arduous task of starting to clean up the huge mess we have made in the room!
Oh, and I should mention that we also ever so slightly shimmed the cap boards so they tilt into the greenhouse to assure any condensation will run in rather than out.


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## Paschendale52 (Sep 26, 2015)

Wow this is really shaping up great!


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## Odin's Gma (Sep 26, 2015)

Paschendale52 said:


> Wow this is really shaping up great!


Thank you! It has certainly turned into a bigger project than I anticipated. How hard can it be to build a couple of boxes, right?

This morning before I got to seeding and getting everything watered, my son insisted Odin finally get a glimpse and take a walk-a-bout.

*prepare for gratuitous tort shots*











He wasn't in there long because we still had electrical work to do, but he checked out every inch!

After that we installed GFCI outlets in the room and I did a bit of cleaning, and now the boy and Odin are outside enjoying a beautiful sunny day.

One minor hang-up. The oil heater that my older son had in the room is apparently broken....that darn kid! 
So, I will have to run and buy a new one, but in the scheme of things, that is the easiest part of all of this!


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## Odin's Gma (Sep 26, 2015)

Just when I thought my day couldn't get any more tort-a-licous, BANANA PLANTS!!!!!!!!




The super dwarf is now happily residing in the greenhouse, and the ice cream is in a big pot on the deck for now.


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## Oxalis (Sep 26, 2015)

Oh my gosh! AWESOME!!!


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## Oxalis (Sep 26, 2015)

SUPER JEALOUS! 

Also the humidity in the greenhouse for little Odin will be great for him as a baby!  I love your tortoise love!


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## Yelloweyed (Sep 26, 2015)

Great enclosure!

Do you mind if I ask - where did you get the plants and what is an 'ice cream' plant?


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## Odin's Gma (Sep 26, 2015)

Oxalis said:


> I love your tortoise love!


He makes it easy.

Now to work on our temps so we can move him down there. We are still waiting on delivery of the additional light set-up and, of course picking up a new oil heater.


Yelloweyed said:


> Great enclosure!
> 
> Do you mind if I ask - where did you get the plants and what is an 'ice cream' plant?



Almost all of the plants were from Odin's gardening trays that I started last winter, some from seeds, some from plants I already had in the house. 
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/gmas-indoor-winter-gardening-and-sulcata-brag-thread.112815/
The hibiscus I bought in the spring, removed all the dirt, replaced it with organic soil and let it grow out. The banana plants were delivered today, and ordered from here:
http://www.greenhousebusiness.com/bananaplants.html

And the "ice cream" plant is a banana variety (also from the site above) that I heard about and just had to try! I mean, come on! Ice cream bananas? Why wouldn't you?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Java_banana


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## chaseswife (Sep 26, 2015)

I have loved seeing all the updates! It looks really good. And now I think I need a banana tree. I mean Shrimp needs a banana tree...


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## johnandjade (Sep 26, 2015)

looking good


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## Odin's Gma (Sep 27, 2015)

chaseswife said:


> And now I think I need a banana tree. I mean Shrimp needs a banana tree...


Yes, it's all about the torts, right?


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## Odin's Gma (Sep 27, 2015)

First hiccup with the new set-up, soil fungus, and lots of it! Coincidentally I was already here and online researching and shopping for a fan to install inside the greenhouse to aid in air circulation, which will certainly help, but as a quick fix to save the plants in the meantime, I had to open up the top panels and mist everything with a dilute water and hydrogen peroxide solution.

On the plus side that means the humidity is where I want it.


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## Oxalis (Sep 27, 2015)

Sorry to hear about the fungus! Sounds like you're really kickin' butt and working hard! Cheers to you!!


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## Odin's Gma (Sep 27, 2015)

Oxalis said:


> Sorry to hear about the fungus! Sounds like you're really kickin' butt and working hard! Cheers to you!!


I suppose you could say it's just the cost of doing business. Fungus loves high temps and high humidity as much as our torts do. 
In his current enclosure it was also a problem on occasion, but we also had better air circulation and had fungus gnats, which loved the fungus, and in turn soil centipedes, which love the fungus gnat larvae. They all kept each other in check more or less.
The greenhouse just doesn't have the right balance yet, the fan for air circulation will help, and I am sure the bugs will reestablish themselves despite the diatomaceous earth, and they will be welcome as long as they are in balance.
It's all very zen.


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## Oxalis (Sep 27, 2015)

Odin's Gma said:


> The greenhouse just doesn't have the right balance yet, the fan for air circulation will help, and I am sure the bugs will reestablish themselves despite the diatomaceous earth, and they will be welcome as long as they are in balance.
> It's all very zen.


What kind of soil are you using?


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## Odin's Gma (Sep 27, 2015)

Oxalis said:


> What kind of soil are you using?


A mixture of organic topsoil, peat moss, coco coir and a bit of organic compost. The fungus problem seems to have stemmed from the plants themselves and the soil they were in (roughly the same mix), but they have been in use for nearly a year (with refreshing and topping off) and spent the summer outside. I expected problems, but was more concerned about insects.

As I said, I have dealt with soil fungus before and am not terribly concerned, it is just a setback. Instead of getting Odin downstairs and into the enclosure next weekend (which was decidedly optimistic anyway) it may be more like two weekends from now, but that is not a bad thing. More time to tweak our temps and let the seeds sprout. 
As @johnandjade said earlier in the thread "slow and steady wins the race". I would rather have problems at this point than when my favorite tort is in there!


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## DawnH (Sep 27, 2015)

Dang woman - YOU ROCK!! Looks fantastic and Tuelo wants to move in...lol (So do I!!)


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## Odin's Gma (Sep 28, 2015)

DawnH said:


> Dang woman - YOU ROCK!! Looks fantastic and Tuelo wants to move in...lol (So do I!!)


Thanks! It's still a work in progress, but at least we are moving forward! Hopefully the greenhouse will provide enough noms for all!

My son stopped and picked up a new oil heater last night on his way home form work and we ran it for a few hours to see what kind of temps we could get out of it, and it looks like the room temps will not be an issue! YAY! Within 3 hours the greenhouse temps hit 80 with humidity at 55% and the room temp hit 77 (that was with a fan going in the room and the greenhouse top flaps open for air circulation). Of course things will change once we get the rest of the lights and heat lamps going, and being able to close the greenhouse after the fan installation will up the humidity, so I think we will be golden!

I turned the whole works off overnight and left the greenhouse open, but unfortunately woke up to more soil fungus. I sprayed it all down with the water / peroxide mix and turned on the fan again before leaving for work, so I guess until the greenhouse fan arrives (hopefully tomorrow, I got a rush delivery) I will have to leave the room fan going and the greenhouse open.
On the plus side, while spraying the fungus this morning I saw a few tiny seedlings poking up already! That makes it more important than ever to get the fungus under control so I don't lose them.


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## Oxalis (Sep 28, 2015)

Oooo, scary!  You're workin' non-stop!


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## naturalman91 (Sep 28, 2015)

I use coconut coir pressed into bricks that I then bake slowly at a low temps 

I used to get fruit flies and gnats and fungus in the enclosure but since I started doing this no fruit flies or gnats and I have found fungus in quite awhile


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## Odin's Gma (Sep 29, 2015)

Oxalis said:


> Oooo, scary!  You're workin' non-stop!



Tell me about it! And all for a critter who is only going to give me "that look" and probably poop on me!



naturalman91 said:


> I use coconut coir pressed into bricks that I then bake slowly at a low temps
> 
> I used to get fruit flies and gnats and fungus in the enclosure but since I started doing this no fruit flies or gnats and I have found fungus in quite awhile



I used that for the top layer but the fungus is popping up only around the plants I transplanted in, so it is obviously in the old soil. Now that they have been put in the rest of the soil is "contaminated" so short of ripping everything apart, throwing all the plants, and heat sterilizing the soil, I just have to find a way to manage it. *sigh*


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## Momof4 (Sep 29, 2015)

Wow!! Nicely done!!! You put a lot of work into this enclosure and it shows!!


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## Yellow Turtle01 (Sep 30, 2015)

WOW that looks AMAZING. I love it! You guys did an AWESOME job. So did the cats


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## Odin's Gma (Sep 30, 2015)

Momof4 said:


> Wow!! Nicely done!!! You put a lot of work into this enclosure and it shows!!





Yellow Turtle01 said:


> WOW that looks AMAZING. I love it! You guys did an AWESOME job. So did the cats


Thank you both! It is still a work in progress, obviously, but I am cautiously optimistic that it will be awesome!
The cats continue to try and help, but a strategically placed spray bottle keeps them in line. 

The fan arrived today!
Seen here:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B009DLW9RO/?tag=exoticpetnetw-20

We let him roam while we did the installation. Initially he was not pleased with this foreign environment and continually gave me the stinkeye:



But after finding delicious seedlings and plantain, he started to consider the benefits of this foreign land:



Fan installation was a piece of cake! We mounted a small 4 inch wide board to the top of the light frame with a small piece of felt between the two to minimize vibration traveling down into the soil, cut a small slit at the peak of the greenhouse, just enough to insert the plug and wire through and fastened the speed control to the top with tape.
Super high tech, I know.




We ever so slightly bent the mounting strips to angle the fan up towards the peak in order to create a convection pattern of circulation:




And have now closed all the flaps to see what happens with the fungus.

Some of the existing plants are showing burn and die off from the peroxide concoction, which was to be expected, but now that we have some circulation I am hoping to be able to discontinue the treatment sooner than later. Wish us luck!


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## Yellow Turtle01 (Sep 30, 2015)

Love the banana plants.


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## Odin's Gma (Sep 30, 2015)

Yellow Turtle01 said:


> Love the banana plants.


 I never imagined that I would have banana plants in Minnesota! I am super excited about it!


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## Yellow Turtle01 (Sep 30, 2015)

Odin's Gma said:


> I never imagined that I would have banana plants in Minnesota! I am super excited about it!


Hopefully Odin is too


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## Odin's Gma (Sep 30, 2015)

Yellow Turtle01 said:


> Hopefully Odin is too


The only thing he really gets excited about is eating, so I am hoping he loves them!


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## Oxalis (Sep 30, 2015)

Looks great!!! I'm so excited for you!  Lucky little Odin is getting the best treats from such a young age!


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## Prairie Mom (Oct 1, 2015)

Odin's Gma said:


> Seeing @johnandjade 's progress today inspired me to get a little bit done tonight.
> 
> Small box lined with heavy duty shower curtain:
> View attachment 149858
> ...


Cute son, cute kitty, and what's going to be a GREAT enclosure


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## Prairie Mom (Oct 1, 2015)

You probably listed this somewhere and I missed it...I'm assuming you're using the greenhouse section for plants in addition to holding in humidity. What light source are you using for the plants in that section? Will this be next to bright windows/ do you have supplemental lighting?

You're doing great things!


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## Odin's Gma (Oct 1, 2015)

Prairie Mom said:


> You probably listed this somewhere and I missed it...I'm assuming you're using the greenhouse section for plants in addition to holding in humidity. What light source are you using for the plants in that section? Will this be next to bright windows/ do you have supplemental lighting?
> 
> You're doing great things!


The greenhouse section has a four foot, dual bulb fluorescent fixture, and I am using 6500k (daylight color) bulbs. I am hoping that is enough for the plants, but if not I left room for an additional CHE or light fixture. It is near a window, but the window is west facing, ground floor, which of course is inadequate light for my purposes.
In the other, smaller section that is pictured, we are going to have a dual, deep dome hanging fixture with a CHE and a regular basking bulb, and in the third section that we have yet to add, there will be another dual bulb, deep dome hanging fixture with a CHE and an MVB. Everything will be on timers, of course.
And, it goes without saying that all of this can and will change if it doesn't give me the lights and temps I am looking for.

In other news, the fungus issue may finally be clearing with the addition of the fan and the fact that the substrate is finally becoming less saturated. Only a couple tiny, barely-there spots when I came home from work today! 
Unfortunately, the little hibiscus has several yellow leaves.  I'm not freaking out yet, it may just be due to the move from outdoors all summer to the greenhouse, but I am monitoring it and hoping for the best.


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## Oxalis (Oct 1, 2015)

Sounds good! I'll keep the hibiscus in my thoughts!


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## Nephelle (Oct 2, 2015)

Odin's Gma said:


> Thank you! It has certainly turned into a bigger project than I anticipated. How hard can it be to build a couple of boxes, right?
> 
> This morning before I got to seeding and getting everything watered, my son insisted Odin finally get a glimpse and take a walk-a-bout.
> 
> ...




I have been following this thread, but for whatever reason I didn't realize Odin is SO LITTLE. OMG that was the cutest walk about ever.


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## Odin's Gma (Oct 2, 2015)

Nephelle said:


> I have been following this thread, but for whatever reason I didn't realize Odin is SO LITTLE. OMG that was the cutest walk about ever.


Yep, right now he is just a wee man, only 16 months old, but he takes his walk-a-bouts seriously!


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## Oxalis (Oct 2, 2015)

Odin's Gma said:


> Yep, right now he is just a wee man, only 16 months old, but he takes his walk-a-bouts seriously!


Super adorable! <3 Odin is a very photogenic tortoise!


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## Odin's Gma (Oct 2, 2015)

Oxalis said:


> Super adorable! <3 Odin is a very photogenic tortoise!


I have been stalking him endlessly with my camera since he stomped his tiny feet into my life, so he is certainly used to it.


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## Odin's Gma (Oct 9, 2015)

It has been a boring week of watching our temps, monitoring the mold (which is mostly gone) and waiting for seeds to sprout while we slowly acclimate Odin to his new enclosure. He has been a grumpy little cuss all week because he hasn't been outside the entire time due to the weather. So, every day he lays over his bowl in his current enclosure, looking angry, and refusing to eat anything that doesn't have at least a little Mazuri on it.
So, I decided to use to to our advantage and start feeding him in the new enclosure every day and it is working like a charm! I go outside, clip a variety of tasty weeds and such, mix a tiny bit of Mazuri in and give him a pile of salad in the new place. After he finishes that, he walks around and munches seedlings. I am hoping the actual move is going to be a lot smoother since he has been in there daily and knows it's a warm and cozy food place.



When he realizes I put out the salad he comes running!






Many of the transplanted weeds have died back, but there are enough for nibbles while everything else comes up



And as you can see, everything else IS coming up! It's just very tiny right now.



The hibiscus is no longer yellowing, and even has a new flower bud!




And these are the temps with the greenhouse wide open, no CHE's, no basking lights and no MVBs having been on all day. Just the light for the plants, the fans and the oil heater on low.
So, basically the room is a greenhouse for now. I broke out into a sweat just walking in!
The spot under the basking lights gets up into the high 90's and he already loves hanging out there after his big salad meal.
I think tomorrow we are going to make the final move, set-up the rest of the heating and lighting, make the modifications to his current enclosure, and unleash the beast.



I am nervous and excited!


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## Odin's Gma (Oct 10, 2015)

My son ended up getting called into work and we had an unseasonably warm fall day, so Odin and I went outside for a couple of hours and dug up a few plants to perk up his enclosure while everything grows.

Odin inspecting our haul:



New plants to nibble and hide under:



There was also a massive spider that came in with them. I don't know if I successfully squashed him or not, he ran into a tuft of grass and I smooshed the whole works hoping for the best.


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## Oxalis (Oct 11, 2015)

Woah, Odin is _super_ spoiled now!! I'd better catch up with my little Stevie soon! He was able to go outside yesterday for a bit ate quite the haul of dandelion leaves! Who knew he would love his Mommy's home-grown dandelion leaves best? 

I love the greenhouse setup, definitely worth all the excitement and anticipation!!  I hope your hibiscus doesn't grow too big! Looks like the perfect tortoise paradise!


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## Odin's Gma (Oct 11, 2015)

Oxalis said:


> Woah, Odin is _super_ spoiled now!! I'd better catch up with my little Stevie soon! He was able to go outside yesterday for a bit ate quite the haul of dandelion leaves! Who knew he would love his Mommy's home-grown dandelion leaves best?
> 
> I love the greenhouse setup, definitely worth all the excitement and anticipation!!  I hope your hibiscus doesn't grow too big! Looks like the perfect tortoise paradise!


It's only going to get worse! Unfortunately my son has to work AGAIN today and I don't know that I can move his current enclosure by myself, but I am tired of Odin's pouting so I am sure gonna try! Also, it is supposed to hit 80 degrees here today, so I am certainly going to take The Mighty Odin outside for a little romp again.
OOH! And Odin is going to have a dandelion flower in his greenhouse any day now! He will be so excited!

I have been reading about bonsai techniques to help keep the hibiscus more contained, we will see how that works out for me.


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## Oxalis (Oct 11, 2015)

80 degrees, today?!  Dang, I have a high of only 76 today! Oh very cool -- regarding a bonsai hibiscus! Can't wait to see how that goes!

Well don't spoil little Odin too much!  He might get used to it! I found the fruit of a prickly pear cactus at my local grocery store today (Meijer, if you're curious), so I decided to let Stevie try some. I've never had it either so I'm curious, and if I like it, I'll probably purchase some tea with it!! Then back out to garden with the handsome tortoise...  Happy Sunday!


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## Odin's Gma (Oct 11, 2015)

Prepare for photos!!!!!
My son woke up in time to help me get the box downstairs before he left for work and I have been a busy little bee!
I removed all the planting boxes and lined the box with a shower curtain after using my sweet little reciprocating saw to ct a small opening to match the one on the other box.
The other box has it's opening blocked because....



...somebody is watching...waiting...sulking....




After dumping the contents from his old planting boxes in, planting a bunch of plants, covering everything in bark and setting up the other light set-up, I shortened the ramp from his old enclosure in placed it in the opening, and then opened the new wing for business....




Odin immediately came to check it out...



But he was wary



He looked it over thoroughly




And then finally made his descent


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## Odin's Gma (Oct 11, 2015)

I still have to trim and secure the edges of the shower curtain and of course a boatload of clean-up (as I am sure you can see) , but first a well deserved break (with beer).


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## Odin's Gma (Oct 11, 2015)

Oxalis said:


> Well don't spoil little Odin too much!  He might get used to it! !


Whoops. Guess you should have told me that 2 hours ago.......


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## Odin's Gma (Oct 11, 2015)

I went back down to get an overview shot and I found Mr. Grumpy-Pants hanging out under the MVB, covered in diatomaceous earth (I gave the greenhouse a few shots of it earlier) with a smug look on his face. I KNEW he had been up to something!



I took my photos....



..and scanned the area....


...looking for shenanigans....



...he made for the ramp, but was clearly up to something, and then I saw it.....




I think it is safe to say he is pleased with the opuntia.



...but irritated with the human intruder in his room.


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## Oxalis (Oct 11, 2015)

Very nice! Absolutely LOVE the cactus additions! Super jealous!


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## Odin's Gma (Oct 11, 2015)

Oxalis said:


> Very nice! Absolutely LOVE the cactus additions! Super jealous!


Not as much as Odin does. My husband just shouted up to me that Odin is absolutely destroying it.
Good thing I have plenty more to replace it!


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## Oxalis (Oct 11, 2015)

Nah... I think that last photo of him is a "thank you, Grandma!" smile!!!


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## Oxalis (Oct 11, 2015)

Odin's Gma said:


> Not as much as Odin does. My husband just shouted up to me that Odin is absolutely destroying it. Good thing I have plenty more to replace it!


Did you manually remove the spines? Or were you able to find one without them?


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## Odin's Gma (Oct 11, 2015)

Oxalis said:


> Did you manually remove the spines? Or were you able to find one without them?


The ones I planted in the enclosure don't seem to have any spines, just glochids, unfortunately I have no idea which type they are or whether or not they will get spines. I ordered the pads online as reptile food and planted them instead. It has been months and none of them seem to be developing spines yet, so maybe they are spineless? *fingers crossed*


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## Oxalis (Oct 11, 2015)

Odin's Gma said:


> The ones I planted in the enclosure don't seem to have any spines, just glochids, unfortunately I have no idea which type they are or whether or not they will get spines. I ordered the pads online as reptile food and planted them instead. It has been months and none of them seem to be developing spines yet, so maybe they are spineless? *fingers crossed*


Oh, I see. Sounds great then. Maybe there are "spineless" variety. Woo hoo! They sure make great scenery for Odin!


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## Odin's Gma (Oct 12, 2015)

Oxalis said:


> Oh, I see. Sounds great then. Maybe there are "spineless" variety. Woo hoo! They sure make great scenery for Odin!


Odin is only interested in edible scenery 

Well, last night was Odin's first night in the new enclosure. I checked on him before I left for work and the temp and humidity inside the greenhouse were 78 degrees and 85% humidity, and the temps in the room were at 76 (down low at box level). The greenhouse and basking lights had just turned on, It was still dark and we had the AC on in the house because of the unseasonably warm weekend, but I still think we need to bring up the temps a little bit overnight. So I guess tonight I will modify the times on the CHEs and the oil heater slightly.
Like I keep saying, it's a work in progress. *sigh*

The last time I checked in before I left Odin was already up and roaming and he looked slightly less grumpy! He spent the night in the greenhouse tucked in the corner underneath a big stand of dandelion and clover. Right now his old hide is in the cactus wing, but over the summer he spent most nights underneath the ramp in his shallow, self-dug burrow. We are toying with the idea of adding an additional hide or relocating his current one, but maybe he would rather just do his own tort thing? We shall see.


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## Oxalis (Oct 12, 2015)

Odin's Gma said:


> Odin is only interested in edible scenery
> 
> Well, last night was Odin's first night in the new enclosure. I checked on him before I left for work and the temp and humidity inside the greenhouse were 78 degrees and 85% humidity, and the temps in the room were at 76 (down low at box level). The greenhouse and basking lights had just turned on, It was still dark and we had the AC on in the house because of the unseasonably warm weekend, but I still think we need to bring up the temps a little bit overnight. So I guess tonight I will modify the times on the CHEs and the oil heater slightly.
> Like I keep saying, it's a work in progress. *sigh*
> ...


Probably wouldn't hurt to add another hide. My Russian loves sleeping in them in the cooler months. Lately he's figured out that sleeping on top of his rock in the corner means that he'll only have to move a few steps in the morning to soak in the heat and light!  Lazy butt!


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## Odin's Gma (Oct 13, 2015)

Oxalis said:


> Probably wouldn't hurt to add another hide.


I don't know that it will be necessary. He seems to have staked out his new favorite corner and started himself a little burrow:



And he was none to pleased that I found him!



I also left work early to pick up an additional timer since the two strips we have with multiple plugs are configured in such a way that all the day time outlets are set for the same times and so are the nighttime ones, which meant that the basking light in the small section was on 13 hours a day along with the big strip light in the greenhouse. Odin seemed to be avoiding that area and the constant heat was definitely taking it's toll on the seedlings, so...
The under soil heating coil and greenhouse fan are on 24/7
The strip light is now on it's own timer, a straight 13 hours a day.
The oil heater is on it's own timer with a few short periods where it's on during the day, and then on for most of the night.
I moved the MVB and CHE to the small box since the MVB only goes on twice during the day for a couple hours each time and set that CHE to stay on all night with a couple on periods during the day when the MVB is off.
Then I moved the basking light and other CHE to the cactus wing with the CHE set on a thermostat and the basking light on and off (mostly on) all day.

Before all of todays changes we were maintaining 80-85 in the greenhouse during the day with 80% humidity, and dropping to about 78 at night, with the room itself having a high of 80 and a low of 74. Still some work to do......


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## Oxalis (Oct 13, 2015)

You certainly have things under control; way to go! ;D Odin looks pretty cozy in his corner!!! 

I never thought a tortoise mansion could have more than one wing!! XD


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## Odin's Gma (Oct 14, 2015)

Oxalis said:


> You certainly have things under control; way to go! ;D Odin looks pretty cozy in his corner!!!
> 
> I never thought a tortoise mansion could have more than one wing!! XD


He stayed the night there again and was still snoozing and half buried when I left for work, so I guess the corner is a hit!
Over the next couple of weeks we will start to wean him off his daily salads and get him back to grazing as the plants grow and perk up, but the first few days have gone well and I think we are going to be able to make this work!
So relieved.....

Of course, there is always a chance we throw on an additional wing with more food if King Odin commands it.


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## Oxalis (Oct 14, 2015)

Very impressive! Amazed you haven't gone crazy from all the stress of the work!


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## aundreagwen (Oct 14, 2015)

That is an incredible habitat!


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## Odin's Gma (Oct 15, 2015)

Thank you both! It has been pretty fun. 

And who said I haven't gone crazy? It's not like it was a long trip.....


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## Oxalis (Oct 15, 2015)

Is Sir Odin pleased with his new castle so far?  I'm wondering how tall some of those plants will be able to grow if he starts chomping them down again!


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## Odin's Gma (Oct 15, 2015)

Oxalis said:


> Is Sir Odin pleased with his new castle so far?  I'm wondering how tall some of those plants will be able to grow if he starts chomping them down again!



I asked him but his mouth was full so all I got out of the conversation was "crunch, crunch, smack, gulp, crunch"...



The cactus are doing well in their dry area, he had a field day with them the first couple of days but he finally took pity on them and started eating other things to give them a break.



The greenhouse plants are doing well, but the seedlings are not. He has trampled and munched most of them down to nothing, so it is going to be a constant cycle of reseeding and munching until things start to take.



The median temp and humidity wing is doing better since I moved the bulbs around. There is boatloads of grass and weeds sprouting and he doesn't spend as much time stomping around in there, so it should be nice and green in no time!



And, since changing the timing on the heat and lights and moving things around the high/low temps in the greenhouse are 86 and 76, and the high low humidity readings are 96 and 77, so we are definitely moving in the right direction and the fluctuations aren't as dramatic as they were initially.


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## DawnH (Oct 15, 2015)

I love it. I totally would not worry about adding another hide, Tuleo does the same thing. He has his corner fox hole dug out and he sleeps there to his heart content. The only way your seedlings are gonna grow is if you block off an area. I would maybe reseed, blocking off one corner. Let it grow a week or two or more if you can stand it! (that looks like sulcata food's seedling?) then open it up and block another corner. That is my battle as well. Letting seedlings grow before they get trampled. ONE DAY I WILL HAVE ACREAGE! You did a bang up job, sister!! LOVE IT!!


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## Oxalis (Oct 15, 2015)

DawnH said:


> I love it. I totally would not worry about adding another hide, Tuleo does the same thing. He has his corner fox hole dug out and he sleeps there to his heart content. The only way your seedlings are gonna grow is if you block off an area. I would maybe reseed, blocking off one corner. Let it grow a week or two or more if you can stand it! (that looks like sulcata food's seedling?) then open it up and block another corner. That is my battle as well. Letting seedlings grow before they get trampled. ONE DAY I WILL HAVE ACREAGE! You did a bang up job, sister!! LOVE IT!!


I concur!  Nicely done indeed! I just love all the photos!


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## Odin's Gma (Oct 15, 2015)

DawnH said:


> I love it. I totally would not worry about adding another hide, Tuleo does the same thing. He has his corner fox hole dug out and he sleeps there to his heart content.


After seeing how soundly and happily he sleeps in his little corner divot, I am leaning the same way. Steady 76-86 degree temps with 77-96% humidity, covered in dirt with a pile of dandelion noms just a head turn away? Sound like baby sully heaven to me!


> The only way your seedlings are gonna grow is if you block off an area. I would maybe reseed, blocking off one corner. Let it grow a week or two or more if you can stand it! (that looks like sulcata food's seedling?) then open it up and block another corner. That is my battle as well. Letting seedlings grow before they get trampled.


Yep, all the seeds are future sully food, clover, dandelion, multiple grasses and a smidge of things like spinach and kale and stuff. All the same stuff I grew inside last winter and outside all summer. I knew they didn't stand a chance and I wanted to wait another week or two before we let him loose, but I just couldn't take the pouting anymore! I am so very weak when it comes to that little face......


Oxalis said:


> I concur!  Nicely done indeed! I just love all the photos!


The photos are an attempt to help the newbies and lurkers in the same way this place helped me when I was a newbie and a lurker. If I make mistakes I hope they learn from them, if I do something awesome I hope they take our little ideas and make them even better!


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## Nephelle (Oct 16, 2015)

Odin's Gma said:


> After seeing how soundly and happily he sleeps in his little corner divot, I am leaning the same way. Steady 76-86 degree temps with 77-96% humidity, covered in dirt with a pile of dandelion noms just a head turn away? Sound like baby sully heaven to me!
> 
> Yep, all the seeds are future sully food, clover, dandelion, multiple grasses and a smidge of things like spinach and kale and stuff. All the same stuff I grew inside last winter and outside all summer. I knew they didn't stand a chance and I wanted to wait another week or two before we let him loose, but I just couldn't take the pouting anymore! I am so very weak when it comes to that little face......
> 
> The photos are an attempt to help the newbies and lurkers in the same way this place helped me when I was a newbie and a lurker. If I make mistakes I hope they learn from them, if I do something awesome I hope they take our little ideas and make them even better!



I think these ideas are anything but little  This build is amazing and this thread one of the best on the forums imo! 

Thank you so much for the updates, I am learning so much from all you've done, and enjoying the story along the way!


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## Oxalis (Oct 16, 2015)

Odin's Gma said:


> Yep, all the seeds are future sully food, clover, dandelion, multiple grasses and a smidge of things like spinach and kale and stuff. All the same stuff I grew inside last winter and outside all summer. I knew they didn't stand a chance and I wanted to wait another week or two before we let him loose, but I just couldn't take the pouting anymore! I am so very weak when it comes to that little face......


Oh I know! How can you say no to such an adorable face? ;D I'm always so happy to read about captive animals being spoiled! It's an art form creating a domestic habit that so closely resembles their native habitat, and I never get tired of all the ideas. 

Also, I'm quite sure you've mentioned before, but how deep are your layers of dirt in each section of the tortoise mansion? I'm starting to get pretty jealous of the greenhouse idea!


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## Odin's Gma (Oct 16, 2015)

Nephelle said:


> I think these ideas are anything but little  This build is amazing and this thread one of the best on the forums imo!
> 
> Thank you so much for the updates, I am learning so much from all you've done, and enjoying the story along the way!



All of our ideas were inspired by others work here, so I can hardly take credit for it. I am so glad that you are enjoying it, the whole experience has been very rewarding and being able to share where our inspiration has taken us so far has been a blast! 
Plus, I am already eyeballing other people work for future builds both inside and out. SO exciting!



Oxalis said:


> Oh I know! How can you say no to such an adorable face? ;D I'm always so happy to read about captive animals being spoiled! It's an art form creating a domestic habit that so closely resembles their native habitat, and I never get tired of all the ideas.
> 
> Also, I'm quite sure you've mentioned before, but how deep are your layers of dirt in each section of the tortoise mansion? I'm starting to get pretty jealous of the greenhouse idea!


Being in Minnesota, it is even more of a challenge to try and replicate their native habitat, and the bigger he gets the more work it will require, but as you said, with a face like that how can I say no?

The layers in the greenhouse and the small, median temp box are 6 inches of a mix of peat, organic topsoil, a bit of organic compost and coco coir. The desert box is roughly 3-4 inches deep of a similar mix but with more coco coir and covered with about an inch of reptibark.


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## DawnH (Oct 16, 2015)

Odin's Gma said:


> Yep, all the seeds are future sully food, clover, dandelion, multiple grasses and a smidge of things like spinach and kale and stuff. All the same stuff I grew inside last winter and outside all summer. I knew they didn't stand a chance and I wanted to wait another week or two before we let him loose, but I just couldn't take the pouting anymore! I am so very weak when it comes to that little face.....QUOTE]
> 
> Sorry, I should have been more specific about the seed. Sulcata food has a seedling mix and that is what yours looked like (I love the stuff, grows super quick!)
> 
> http://www.sulcatafood.com/All_Store_Items.html


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## Odin's Gma (Oct 16, 2015)

Odin is settling in nicely and seems pretty pleased with the set-up! This morning I checked in on him before I left for work and he was chilling in the desert box under the basking light that I temped at a steamy 112 degrees! If we didn't have the separate boxes with different temps I would be concerned about that kind of brutal, dry heat, but the middle box was at 78 degrees (the MVB wasn't on in that one yet, and the CHE in that one is on a timer set to go on mostly overnight to maintain lower temps, rather than a thermostat like the desert box) and the greenhouse was at 82 with 85% humidity, so it is easy enough for him to choose what he is in the mood for.



DawnH said:


> re: seed mixes


So far I have avoided buying any mixes, none of them that I have found specifically list the ingredients, and with all the misinformation on sully care I can't help but worry that the mixes may have something that isn't good for him or maybe just have good items in incorrect or unhealthy amounts. With me buying all the seeds individually I can control how much of each plant I will have, (for example, 5-10 radish seeds for every handful of grass seed). I can also reseed specific items that he mows down when he has a craving for one particular thing or stop seeding for things he isn't currently munching.
I know, I know, I am a little paranoid, and as always, have completely overthought it, but that's just how I roll.


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## Pearly (Oct 16, 2015)

Odin's Gma said:


> Odin is settling in nicely and seems pretty pleased with the set-up! This morning I checked in on him before I left for work and he was chilling in the desert box under the basking light that I temped at a steamy 112 degrees! If we didn't have the separate boxes with different temps I would be concerned about that kind of brutal, dry heat, but the middle box was at 78 degrees (the MVB wasn't on in that one yet, and the CHE in that one is on a timer set to go on mostly overnight to maintain lower temps, rather than a thermostat like the desert box) and the greenhouse was at 82 with 85% humidity, so it is easy enough for him to choose what he is in the mood for.
> 
> 
> So far I have avoided buying any mixes, none of them that I have found specifically list the ingredients, and with all the misinformation on sully care I can't help but worry that the mixes may have something that isn't good for him or maybe just have good items in incorrect or unhealthy amounts. With me buying all the seeds individually I can control how much of each plant I will have, (for example, 5-10 radish seeds for every handful of grass seed). I can also reseed specific items that he mows down when he has a craving for one particular thing or stop seeding for things he isn't currently munching.
> I know, I know, I am a little paranoid, and as always, have completely overthought it, but that's just how I roll.


Great thread! Love your work! Wish I was as handy...but we at least have Texas climate in our favor so outdoor enclosure is a plan for my grand-tort-babies once they get bigger and I'll get some help with the hide box. With very short winter our babies will enjoy the back yard almost full time and we'll figure something out for the few cold days we get here. But I just wanted to say how impressed I am with your work! Wow! Awesome! Love what you've done with Odin's new home, loved all the pictures, and Odin looks like a king of a castle. Your cats are beautiful. I have 3 of those (full time indoors) and love them to pieces. Thank you for sharing your building experience with us. Great learning opportunity for so many of us!


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## Odin's Gma (Oct 16, 2015)

Pearly said:


> Great thread! Love your work! Wish I was as handy...but we at least have Texas climate in our favor so outdoor enclosure is a plan for my grand-tort-babies once they get bigger and I'll get some help with the hide box. With very short winter our babies will enjoy the back yard almost full time and we'll figure something out for the few cold days we get here. But I just wanted to say how impressed I am with your work! Wow! Awesome! Love what you've done with Odin's new home, loved all the pictures, and Odin looks like a king of a castle. Your cats are beautiful. I have 3 of those (full time indoors) and love them to pieces. Thank you for sharing your building experience with us. Great learning opportunity for so many of us!


Thank you so much! The kind words and encouragement are a huge boost for this very nervous first time tort Grandma! 
The thought of caring for a beast that will likely outlive my adult children is very overwhelming, but thanks to this place and all the support and knowledge I have gained (and passed on to my son) I am starting to feel more confident that we are giving him a good start to what will hopefully be a very long, long life. The least I can do is try and pass on our journey to others in this position.


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## DawnH (Oct 17, 2015)

Odin's Gma said:


> Odin is settling in nicely and seems pretty pleased with the set-up! This morning I checked in on him before I left for work and he was chilling in the desert box under the basking light that I temped at a steamy 112 degrees! If we didn't have the separate boxes with different temps I would be concerned about that kind of brutal, dry heat, but the middle box was at 78 degrees (the MVB wasn't on in that one yet, and the CHE in that one is on a timer set to go on mostly overnight to maintain lower temps, rather than a thermostat like the desert box) and the greenhouse was at 82 with 85% humidity, so it is easy enough for him to choose what he is in the mood for.
> 
> 
> So far I have avoided buying any mixes, none of them that I have found specifically list the ingredients, and with all the misinformation on sully care I can't help but worry that the mixes may have something that isn't good for him or maybe just have good items in incorrect or unhealthy amounts. With me buying all the seeds individually I can control how much of each plant I will have, (for example, 5-10 radish seeds for every handful of grass seed). I can also reseed specific items that he mows down when he has a craving for one particular thing or stop seeding for things he isn't currently munching.
> I know, I know, I am a little paranoid, and as always, have completely overthought it, but that's just how I roll.




I get that, 110%! I like to use them as fillers for what I plant and grow on my own. I am paranoid about him starving or not getting everything he needs. With how busy I am (kids, foster kids, our zoo) it makes me feel a little more secure. Just toss, water and he has another option.


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## Odin's Gma (Oct 19, 2015)

_*insert boatload of expletives*
_
Another glitch in the greenhouse! I was out of town for the weekend and came back to find a half dozen wasps, fortunately they aren't that stinging devil creatures that I am terrified of (and allergic to), instead they are a type of Ichneumon, and these particular ones are very large and look very much like a crane fly. I smushed at least 4 of them but there were a couple I couldn't catch. My son has the day off and I have him on creepy-crawlie patrol.

I am not a happy lady. 

Oh! But on the plus side, Odin checked out his old hide that he hasn't been using! I could tell because it it looked as if a caravan of tiny backhoes removed all the soil from inside the hide and spread it around in front of it.


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## Oxalis (Oct 19, 2015)

Awww, poor Odin! I'm sure the evil buggies will be destroyed soon! *Hugs for luck!*


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## Odin's Gma (Oct 20, 2015)

Well, my son smushed a couple more of those pesky wasps yesterday and today I found a few more and gave the whole greenhouse a liberal dose of diatomaceous earth. Odin does not seem to give a rat's patootie about them and seems to really be "warming up" to the new set-up . His two favorite areas seem to be the greenhouse and the cactus wing, and I rarely see him in the small middle section except to pass through it, briefly pausing to take a few bites of aloe vera. 
It's too soon to call it a success, but once we work out the kinks (like the wasps) I think it will be.


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## johnandjade (Oct 20, 2015)

Odin's Gma said:


> Well, my son smushed a couple more of those pesky wasps yesterday and today I found a few more and gave the whole greenhouse a liberal dose of diatomaceous earth. Odin does not seem to give a rat's patootie about them and seems to really be "warming up" to the new set-up . His two favorite areas seem to be the greenhouse and the cactus wing, and I rarely see him in the small middle section except to pass through it, briefly pausing to take a few bites of aloe vera.
> It's too soon to call it a success, but once we work out the kinks (like the wasps) I think it will be.




if it helps and is possible... our flat had an invasion due to a nest last summer... an empty soda bottle with the top cut around a 3rd down and inverted... put some golden syrup in the bottom. the little pests will go in, but can't get out! i was catching around 20 daily with this method. 

bloomin things tryed my patience to say the least


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## Aunt Caffy (Oct 21, 2015)

Odin's Gma said:


> I ordered from here.
> http://www.greenhousebusiness.com/bananaplants.html
> 
> One super dwarf and one Blue Java, they say it tastes like ice cream, What?!?


Oh my goodness! Great website!


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## Oxalis (Oct 22, 2015)

Aunt Caffy said:


> Oh my goodness! Great website!


Good to hear someone else liked the website! I still have to order something from there!  Perhaps the dwarf mulberry -- haven't decided yet!


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## Odin's Gma (Oct 22, 2015)

I'm glad you both love it as much as I do! It was a great accidental find and all the plants I have ordered through them are beautiful and healthy.


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## Oxalis (Oct 22, 2015)

Odin's Gma said:


> I'm glad you both love it as much as I do! It was a great accidental find and all the plants I have ordered through them are beautiful and healthy.


Always a good sign!!


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## Odin's Gma (Oct 24, 2015)

johnandjade said:


> if it helps and is possible... our flat had an invasion due to a nest last summer... an empty soda bottle with the top cut around a 3rd down and inverted... put some golden syrup in the bottom. the little pests will go in, but can't get out! i was catching around 20 daily with this method.
> 
> bloomin things tryed my patience to say the least


They are trying mine too, but between smushing and diatomaceous earth they seem to be under control. We are still seeing 1-3 new ones a day but ones the eggs stop hatching I think we will be okay.

And, I am pleased to say, Odin seems to be back to his old self! He isn't hiding like he was at first and this morning when I went in to feed him and put fresh water in his dish he came running like he used to! The seedlings are growing pretty slowly, but they are growing, and the established plants are doing very well!
I think, rather than cordoning off areas to let the seedlings grow, I may start trays of seeds to transplant into areas as they get big just to keep bald spots to a minimum.


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## Oxalis (Oct 24, 2015)

Little Odin is growing so fast!!! What a veritable tortoise paradise!!  I'm so pleased with your progress! Now it's time to celebrate with Steve and Mazuri!


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## johnandjade (Oct 24, 2015)

Oxalis said:


> Little Odin is growing so fast!!! What a veritable tortoise paradise!!  I'm so pleased with your progress! Now it's time to celebrate with Steve and Mazuri!




you did an amazing job


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## Odin's Gma (Oct 24, 2015)

Thanks! As long as he is giving me that smile and stomping around like he owns the place, I am pleased.


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## johnandjade (Oct 24, 2015)

Odin's Gma said:


> Thanks! As long as he is giving me that smile and stomping around like he owns the place, I am pleased.




I have no doubt he's very grateful for all your hard work


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## Odin's Gma (Oct 25, 2015)

This morning I was doing some reading back on some of @Tom 's threads about temps and humidity in burrows and I was curious about Odin's 3 favorite hide spots in his new enclosure. 

Here is the overall pic of the set-up for reference (with him jealously guarding the few remains of food in his food dish):


When we first moved him in, he chose the far back left corner of the greenhouse , behind a tall stand of dandelion and shown through the haze of humidity shortly after it's morning misting:



The humidity in the greenhouse fluctuates between 86 and 99% and the temps between 79 and 88 degrees. So that burrowing spot made sense to me.

The other 2 hide spots are both in the cactus wing, the first is the concrete dome we made for him and used in his last enclosure:



This box has the basking light on for most of the day and the CHE set on a thermostat. The furthest areas from the light set-up can drop as low as 76 at night and under the lights fluctuates between 85 and 112 degrees. 
The temps in the dome are steadily a bit lower than the rest of the box, at 72-75 degrees with moderate humidity.

But the one I find most unusual is the dugout he has created underneath the ramp:



I have temped this area as low as 69 with low humidity. With all the toasty and humid areas in the greenhouse and in the median climate box, I thought it unusual. I fully expected him to burrow behind the big spider plant in the median box, where the temps are more similar to the greenhouse temps at 78-84 and the humidity ranges from 50-70%.

I'm glad that the enclosure developed so many different micro climates (it was the plan after all) and that he is utilizing them at his leisure, I guess I just expected him to make the greenhouse his main burrowing area rather than gravitating so often to the cooler and less humid areas.


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## Odin's Gma (Oct 25, 2015)

Another observation, I have noticed the Opuntia leaning forward, which I thought was them seeking the light across the box:




On closer examination I noticed this:





Those are the backsides of the two remaining plants. I don't know if those are claw marks or beak scrapes, but he is obviously slowly working them to this slanted position.

And then there is the subtle remains of the third plant, barely showing above the surface and being guarded by the ravenous beast :



R.I.Poo, beautiful opuntia, we barely knew ye. 



Psst; don't tell Odin, but I have "a few" back-ups.....


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## Tom (Oct 25, 2015)

There is a point here I want to try to explain…

We have a certain long term member here who speaks with authority and tells people all about what sucata tortoises need, how they should be housed, how they shouldn't be housed, and how they need a wide variety of micro climates to choose from. There is a problem with this though. This member doesn't keep sulcatas. Never has. Hasn't kept them one way, or another. All these assertions are made and elaborated upon with absolutely nothing to confirm or deny them. Often these assertions are in opposition to facts obtained by people with first hand experience with the species in question housed in the manner in question. Basically, anyone can say anything they want and its up to the reader to figure out the best course of action.

"Microclimates": How many does a young sulcata need? How much choice should we offer them and why? It is my assertion based on decades of trial and error raising sulcatas that when I give them choices, they will frequently make the wrong one. Often this wrong choice would result in their death without human intervention to help them. For example: Here in North America in our temperate climate we have cold winter nights. Sometimes below freezing. We offer heated night boxes to overcome this unacceptable, unsurvivable, climactic condition in this land that is foreign to this species. Many sulcatas, and for a wide variety of reasons, choose to go park under a bush or nosed into a corner somewhere. Don't they know what is best for them? Don't they logically know it will be too cold over night and they should go sleep in the warm box? If we were outside and cold, we would go to a known warmer area, wouldn't we? Herein lies the problem. Tortoises don't use logic. They did not evolve to deal with North American or European temperate climates. In the wild it doesn't get too cold. I don't think people understand that weather over there. Ever been to New Orleans or South Florida in summer? Its hot and humid day and night. That is like the African monsoon season in wild the sulcata range. There is no 69 degrees. Ever been to Phoenix in July or August? How cold is the coldest night in Phoenix in August? That is like the African dry season when wild sulcatas stay underground full time. Anywhere a wild sulcata over in Africa chooses to sleep is going to be warm enough. Under a bush or in a burrow, it will not get too cold, so they don't understand the concept of "Its too cold. You will die if you stay here."

So why do we need to offer all these different microclimates in our indoor enclosures when we know that they will often make a choice that is detrimental to their health and potentially fatal in some cases? They make their choices based on all sorts of competing drives and instincts. Its like the person who offers one of those ramped water bowls and when the tortoise doesn't use it because the tortoise is not comfortable with it, the person assumes the tortoises is not thirsty and doesn't need water. In reality, the tortoise's instincts tell it that NOT drowning in an awkward, dangerous bowl, is more important then getting a drink of water right now. In the wild they would avoid an uncomfortable drinking spot and just drink from a puddle during the next rain. In our enclosures, there is not going to be any rain, and no puddle. They can dehydrate and die with that full, untouched water bowl right in front of them. They can make the "wrong" choice.

So how does this apply to your situation @Odin's Gma ? Why are you offering areas with temps as low as 69 degrees? Why are you offering dry areas devoid of humidity when we know that simulating the monsoon season is what is best for them? Who convinced you that offering these choices was a good thing to do, instead of offering what is known to be best for them? That area under the ramp is a typical secure, tight, covered area that any sulcata would love to park in. The tortoise is not choosing that area because the temperature and humidity are ideal, it is choosing that area because it feels safe from predation there. In the wild, every hiding spot would have the "correct" temperature and humidity, so your tortoise is choosing based on how safe it feels there, not how warm or cold it feels there.

Another example: Put out a bowl of strawberries, banana, grapes and lettuce, next to a bowl grass clippings. Which bowl is the tortoise going to go for? Does that mean the tortoise knows that the fruit is better for it? Is that a choice we should offer because tortoises know what they need and what is best for themselves?

Personally, I would not let any area of your enclosure drop below the high 70's day or night, and I would provide the tortoise with whatever humidity I thought was best for it, rather than offer it multiple choices where it is likely to choose the wrong area for the wrong reasons.

Remember that I have done what you are doing. I've offered those choices. I've learned from many years of trial and _error_, emphasis on _error_, that when I offer the tortoise a choice between what is ideal for it and what is bad for it, they will often choose the bad thing, and sometimes the reason why is not obvious. Who knows why that tortoise chose to sit in a corner on a January night, instead of retiring in its heated box like it normally does? But I know that they sometimes do choose poorly and that is why I make sure they have what they need every day and every night. I stopped offering the bad choices and my animals are healthier, and my results are better, because of it.

Just wanted to offer this as food for thought...


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## Odin's Gma (Oct 25, 2015)

Tom said:


> So how does this apply to your situation @Odin's Gma ? Why are you offering areas with temps as low as 69 degrees? Why are you offering dry areas devoid of humidity when we know that simulating the monsoon season is what is best for them?



This is exactly why I tagged you in the post, and I thank you for the detailed response. I did and still do want to offer different climates both for his interest and for his comfort, but I did not expect the dramatic differences in the different areas, and today was the first time since this enclosure has been in use that the under-ramp temps had dropped that low, and obviously it was a concern. (I actually upped the temp in the room prior to posting to see if I could remedy that and then realized that I had taken the plexi cover off of that portion of the enclosure when I was watering everything which does raise the temp a bit when it is in place). This enclosure has only been up and running for a couple of weeks and is a work in progress, and I expected that I would have to be vigilant with the temps, especially as the temps outside start to plummet.

And I should clarify, that low humidity in this enclosure is a relative term, since I am comparing it to the high humidity in the greenhouse. The room humidity ranges from 60-70% so of course the 2 open boxes are at that at a minimum, and of course much more humid at tort level. The median box is watered daily and the cactus box about every other day, just not around the cactus, so they don't rot.

Back to my desire to offer him different climates, which is actually twofold and was sparked by some of your posts discussing the dramatic temperature and humidity differences that you have mentioned in their burrows vs. the outside temps and the African plains area they came from. In my area I will never be able to achieve the temps they were designed to live in, or even the ones you can achieve in your area, but I do want to try and get as close as possible. In addition, since his enclosure is also a food garden, the plants in each box have different heat, soil and moisture requirements. No way the cactus would survive in the dense and fertile soil and super wet conditions in the greenhouse, and no way the banana plant could survive in the drier more well-draining soil of the cactus box. I guess the best way to explain my thought process is that this is an attempt to mimic all the seasons from their native land at the same time in much, much less dramatic fashion and provide as varied a food supply for all day grazing as I possibly can.


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## Tom (Oct 25, 2015)

I understand your intentions. I'm not saying intentions or your conditions are right or wrong. Just conversing here now...

Our enclosures are not the wild. Trying to understand the complexities of all that happens in the wild for any given species is both noble and futile at the same time. At some point we have to look at what facts we have right in front of us and decide what is best. This is what I have done with my care techniques.

Wild sulcatas spend 95-98% of their lives underground. All this above ground stuff that both you and I are doing and talking about is totally unlike the wild in every way. No one knows anything about what wild baby sulcatas do and very little is known about the adults either. We know they live in burrows almost all the time, but no one has ever published what burrow conditions are like. Tomas from Senegal has told me that he has collected this data, but he has not yet published it. I am guesstimating about wild burrow conditions over there based on what happens in my burrows here during summer, when my above ground temps are similar to above ground temps over there.

My point is that since none of us, including me, has any idea what wild conditions really are, we are left to examine what little we do know about the wild, what we know from our captive experience, and make our best guess at what works. Our "best guess" for the first couple of decades keeping sulcatas was all wrong. Only in the last few years have some of us been putting together where we went wrong and what does work best. In time, if people raise a few dozen sulcata babies in a few different ways, they will also understand what works and what doesn't and why. I'm just trying to save people all that time.


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## Odin's Gma (Oct 25, 2015)

Tom said:


> I understand your intentions. I'm not saying intentions or your conditions are right or wrong. Just conversing here now...
> 
> Our enclosures are not the wild. Trying to understand the complexities of all that happens in the wild for any given species is both noble and futile at the same time. At some point we have to look at what facts we have right in front of us and decide what is best. This is what I have done with my care techniques.
> 
> ...


Hey, if I'm doing wrong, you can say it, I'm not going to get all butt-hurt. I'm a tough old broad, i've been wrong before and I will be wrong again. I'm here to learn and that's why I am asking you, the Sultan of Sulcatas. 

Even if there were hard facts on sullys in the wild, I am certain I could never come close to replicating them given my location, that is also why in the year plus since my son brought Odin home, when friends and family say they want one I have done everything possible to gently discourage it with information. I am the first one to admit that MN is one of the worst places to raise a sully and I will also freely admit that when I started doing my research and realized what a monumental task this would be I broached the subject of rehoming him with my son.
Unfortunately, I am now fully wrapped around Odin's little claw and am completely willing to do whatever it takes to keep him happy and healthy as long as he is with me. That is why I endlessly stalk this place and read pretty much everything you post on the subject!

All that said, with what you see of his new enclosure, what changes would you advise aside from upping the temps (in the works) and making it bigger (already have design plans in mind, which include another greenhouse, and am fully aware this layout may not be big enough to make it through the winter)?
Lay it on me, Sultan!


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## Odin's Gma (Oct 25, 2015)

P.S, I re-temped the area under the ramp and it is now at 72 in the coolest spot. I raised the thermostat temp on the CHE in that box and also turned up the oil heater in the room and the overall house temp by a couple of degrees.


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## Tom (Oct 25, 2015)

Odin's Gma said:


> Hey, if I'm doing wrong, you can say it, I'm not going to get all butt-hurt. I'm a tough old broad, i've been wrong before and I will be wrong again. I'm here to learn and that's why I am asking you, the Sultan of Sulcatas.



I'm not shy. You know I would tell you if I thought something was really wrong! 


Sultan of Sulcatas…? Pshhhh... You and Dean, I swear… I just like 'em. That's all.


I don't see anything "wrong" with your set up, except the low temps, which you are already fixing. Its just not how I would do it because building a large closed chamber just seems simpler to me and I think I can offer better conditions in a more efficient way.

Your tortoise appears to be healthy and thriving with the routine that you are following, and there is no doubt that you are enjoying yourself, and THAT is what this hobby is _supposed _to be all about!

I love reading your posts and hearing all your enthusiasm. Its infectious! I don't want to change that. I just wanted to share some conceptual information on this subject with you and the readership of this forum. We're here to talk torts, and by golly, that's what Ima gonna do!


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## Odin's Gma (Oct 25, 2015)

Tom said:


> I'm not shy. You know I would tell you if I thought something was really wrong!
> 
> 
> Sultan of Sulcatas…? Pshhhh... You and Dean, I swear… I just like 'em. That's all.
> ...



I have considered enclosing the whole works, my concern is that it may limit what I can grow for a more natural grazing experience. I absolutely adore being able to watch his "stomp, stomp, munch, stomp stomp, munch" that I fell in love with over the summer in his outdoor playpen. So, at the very least, I would like to try and achieve something close to the outdoor conditions we get here in the hottest part of the summer time. 
And it's no longer a hobby, it's like having a kid, I have to learn and adapt for his well being. I will make mistakes, but I won't stop trying to do better.

Also, no matter what you say, you can't change my enthusiasm. He is Just. So. Awesome! And, @DeanS is on to something, you really should have an official title or something, jus' sayin'. I do appreciate your input and taking time to look at his set-up. Thanks!


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## Prairie Mom (Oct 26, 2015)

Fun and interesting reading. Fabulous photos and definitely great enthusiasm as usual Gma!


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## dwright27 (Nov 5, 2015)

I have questions!

#1. Would this work for a redfoot?
#2. Would you mind giving a cost estimate (so far), excluding the plants? (I'm in Canada so the plants available to me might differ slightly)
#3. What would you do if you had to move? lol
#4. How do you keep the cat out of it? Is the enclosure in its own room with a shut door?
#5. Can someone build this for meeeeeee.... modular-style? lol


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## Odin's Gma (Nov 6, 2015)

dwright27 said:


> I have questions!
> 
> #1. Would this work for a redfoot?
> #2. Would you mind giving a cost estimate (so far), excluding the plants? (I'm in Canada so the plants available to me might differ slightly)
> ...


1. Absolutely! I don't know redfoot requirements, but with this set-up it's easy enough to modify the temps and humidity if it's necessary.
2. That is hard to say. I didn't buy everything at once, I spread it out over a several weeks because that is what my budget demanded, a couple hundred a paycheck over a couple of months. I would estimate around 250-350 for the structure supplies (wood, liner, screws, Drylok, caulk), about 35$ for the greenhouse, another 35$ for the new oil heater, maybe 15$ for the fan, another 15$ for the 4ft light fixture and a few bucks for each lightbulb. What else....Oh! The soil maybe 20-30 dollars. The two dual bulb light fixture were about 25$ a piece and the holders for them were about 20$ each. The basking bulb was about 10$, the CHE are only a few a piece, and the MVBs are 30-50 a piece. We have two outlet strips with timers built in that were 15$ each, and two other single timers that were about 5$ each and a thermostat that was about 20$. I think that was it, so, maybe $650?
3. The three pieces are not permanently attached to each other, a couple of small screws just to keep them stable, which wasn't really necessary because of the weight of the soil, so the two smaller pieces will be easy to move. The larger box will be a pain though. We will have to unscrew the wood pieces that the 4ft light fixture hangs on because I think the box will have to be tilted slightly to the side to fit through the doorway, and whomever moves it will have to be incredibly strong if you don't remove the soil. Fortunately my guys have that strength. I do not.
4. Yes, he has his own room and the door remains closed at all times. That is not only to keep those irritating felines out, but also to keep all that heat and humidity contained.
5. If you were a bit closer i'm sure my son would love to! He had a blast!


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## Odin's Gma (Nov 6, 2015)

Aside from the fact that Odin refuses to let any of the seedlings grow to maturity, everything is going beautifully! Still tweaking temps, but since the last time I had time to play on the forum, all of the temps I was concerned about are up a few degrees from where they were, so we are moving in the right direction.

It's tough to get good pics when he is in the greenhouse because of the humidity fog, and because he loves to hide on the far end in his self-dug burrow, but here is my dirty little grump giving me the threatening stinkeye for disturbing his happy place.


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## Odin's Gma (Nov 7, 2015)

Temp update!
This morning shortly after the lights started cycling on (which is when I get the coldest readings)
Room is at 78 degrees with humidity at about 65-70% overall
Greenhouse is at 87 degrees and 84% humidity.

These are all soil readings, not air, wall or decor readings, taken with my super sweet temp phaser (because i'm a dork and calling it a phaser makes me happy!):
The concrete hide is at 75 degrees 
Under the ramp is 74
Basking spot is at 92
Under the MVB with only the CHE on right now is at 85
Under the larger plants not in the greenhouse I am also getting readings of 74 
So, @Tom , keep going? Are lows of 74 in the coolest spots and the coldest time of day too cool?

Also, wasps gone, and no sign of soil fungus! My little buddies, the soil centipedes, have colonized nicely in all 3 boxes, which not only keeps other bugs in check, but they also do a nice job of cleaning up rotting food or other plant matter that Odin tracks around. I am finally getting the little ecosystem I was after! 

Now, if he would only let the seedlings grow! I did start 2 trays of seedlings upstairs, and once they are ready I will start to transplant. I think I will dig up a few chunks of weeds from his playpen in the meantime.


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## Tom (Nov 7, 2015)

Odin's Gma said:


> So, @Tom , keep going? Are lows of 74 in the coolest spots and the coldest time of day too cool?



Yes, I think so. I'd never let a baby sulcata drop to 74 or 75. I've let older ones like yours drop to 78ish, but I think 74 is too low.

If he got a respiratory infection from the cool temps, I know you'd feel awful, and that is the danger here. Warmer temps will simply prevent it.


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## Odin's Gma (Nov 7, 2015)

Tom said:


> I know you'd feel awful.


Devastated is more like it!

Formulating a plan now.....stay tuned!


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## johnandjade (Nov 7, 2015)

Odin's Gma said:


> Temp update!
> This morning shortly after the lights started cycling on (which is when I get the coldest readings)
> Room is at 78 degrees with humidity at about 65-70% overall
> Greenhouse is at 87 degrees and 84% humidity.
> ...




sounds like tort paradise, great job! take a bow maam


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## dwright27 (Nov 8, 2015)

Odin's Gma said:


> 1. Absolutely! I don't know redfoot requirements, but with this set-up it's easy enough to modify the temps and humidity if it's necessary.
> 2. That is hard to say. I didn't buy everything at once, I spread it out over a several weeks because that is what my budget demanded, a couple hundred a paycheck over a couple of months. I would estimate around 250-350 for the structure supplies (wood, liner, screws, Drylok, caulk), about 35$ for the greenhouse, another 35$ for the new oil heater, maybe 15$ for the fan, another 15$ for the 4ft light fixture and a few bucks for each lightbulb. What else....Oh! The soil maybe 20-30 dollars. The two dual bulb light fixture were about 25$ a piece and the holders for them were about 20$ each. The basking bulb was about 10$, the CHE are only a few a piece, and the MVBs are 30-50 a piece. We have two outlet strips with timers built in that were 15$ each, and two other single timers that were about 5$ each and a thermostat that was about 20$. I think that was it, so, maybe $650?
> 3. The three pieces are not permanently attached to each other, a couple of small screws just to keep them stable, which wasn't really necessary because of the weight of the soil, so the two smaller pieces will be easy to move. The larger box will be a pain though. We will have to unscrew the wood pieces that the 4ft light fixture hangs on because I think the box will have to be tilted slightly to the side to fit through the doorway, and whomever moves it will have to be incredibly strong if you don't remove the soil. Fortunately my guys have that strength. I do not.
> 4. Yes, he has his own room and the door remains closed at all times. That is not only to keep those irritating felines out, but also to keep all that heat and humidity contained.
> 5. If you were a bit closer i'm sure my son would love to! He had a blast!



Thank you for your answers! Not sure I'd be able to provide an entire room, so I still might go with a wood + glass closed chamber. I just don't know how to build and I have no desire/time to learn at the moment lol. I still have time, he'll be okay in his 75g for a little bit longer. 

It's been impossible to find someone in my area to build an enclosure for me lol. I've "stolen" one of your photos and saved it to my Evernote though for future reference. 

I forgot about the cost of things in the US and the exchange rate. The MVB I get for my RF is around $80 CAD. So that'll tell you the difference for just about everything else in the list lol.


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## Odin's Gma (Nov 8, 2015)

dwright27 said:


> Thank you for your answers! Not sure I'd be able to provide an entire room, so I still might go with a wood + glass closed chamber. I just don't know how to build and I have no desire/time to learn at the moment lol. I still have time, he'll be okay in his 75g for a little bit longer.
> 
> It's been impossible to find someone in my area to build an enclosure for me lol. I've "stolen" one of your photos and saved it to my Evernote though for future reference.
> 
> I forgot about the cost of things in the US and the exchange rate. The MVB I get for my RF is around $80 CAD. So that'll tell you the difference for just about everything else in the list lol.


As far as costs, I purchased as much as I could online. For example, MVBs in the pet stores tend to run around 50-70 dollars and I have found them online for as little as 30, online you also have a nearly unlimited selection, whereas in stores you are stuck with what is usually one or two of the more expensive brands. Also, light fixtures are cheaper at home improvement centers than they are at pet stores. The 4ft fluorescent fixture I purchased is just a cheap shop light, around 12 dollars, similar sized aquarium and habitat lighting can run from 70-200 dollars.

The build itself doesn't have to be nearly as involved as ours either. An old dresser or bookcase can easily be converted as a base and many here have done exactly that. Really, the options are as unlimited as your imagination.

I wish you luck, it has been a blast!


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## Odin's Gma (Nov 8, 2015)

johnandjade said:


> sounds like tort paradise, great job! take a bow maam


_*Bows deeply, then breaks into a little dance*
_
Thank you, kind sir! I can't wait until the plants take off!


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## destortoise (Nov 9, 2015)

This is an amazing build! What I aspire for someday for Squash  kudos to you


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## Odin's Gma (Nov 9, 2015)

destortoise said:


> This is an amazing build! What I aspire for someday for Squash  kudos to you


Squash? That might be the best tort name ever!

And thanks, i'm sure Squash will enjoy it as much as Odin has!


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## Odin's Gma (Nov 14, 2015)

Everything's coming up roses in the greenhouse!
(see any ideas @Anyfoot ?)










I know it still looks pretty sad to the untrained eye, but there is hope budding all over the place, despite "someones" constant destructive stomping and biting!

"Are you talking about me?"



"I don't think I like your tone, human."


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## Anyfoot (Nov 14, 2015)

Odin's Gma said:


> Everything's coming up roses in the greenhouse!
> (see any ideas @Anyfoot ?)
> View attachment 155650
> View attachment 155651
> ...


Yep. That's exactly what I'm looking for. What is that in the 7th photo?


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## Odin's Gma (Nov 14, 2015)

Anyfoot said:


> Yep. That's exactly what I'm looking for. What is that in the 7th photo?


That is the opuntia that I put in his "dry" box! Despite him chomping them constantly and trying to push and claw them to the ground, the two remaining plants (he ate the third down to the soil) both have new growth. 
I am pleased as punch! I honestly didn't expect them to survive, much less send out new growth! (I have at least 2 dozen more opuntia plants ready to replace them)


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## Odin's Gma (Dec 6, 2015)

Still tweaking temps and trying to keep food growing. The temps in the room still dip as low as 75 on occasion, but in the enclosure all areas are up by about 2 degrees on average. I added a CHE to the greenhouse which is on a thermostat, and in that area it is holding a pretty steady 84-88 degrees with 70-90% humidity



and his new burrow (behind the hibiscus) stays a couple degrees warmer because it is the closest to the oil heater.
Basking areas are a balmy 98-104 when those lights are on, and in the low 90's when the lights are off (they are both dual fixtures with CHEs and lights) but at least one of the lights is on at a time between 6:30am and 7pm, with the light in the greenhouse on from 6am-8pm.
We are considering options for enclosing his self dug burrow behind the hibiscus somewhat so he feels more hidden, and he has abandoned the cooler areas under the ramp and in his old hide. I think it's is partly because he is just getting too darn big! He still fits in the concrete igloo, (but just barely) and even having dug out underneath the ramp, his shell was scraping on the underside when he was coming in and out. It's hinged, so it wasn't doing any damage, but it was pretty funny watching him lift it as he did his digging.
Well, I thought it was funny, but apparently he does not agree.



I think today I will put in a couple more opuntia, as we are now down to one in the enclosure, and it is riddled with beak and claw marks.



Oh! And with his new super-sized body, he is also having super sized poop! When he was tiny I would just bury them and let them compost naturally to feed the plants, but that no longer seemed to be enough to keep the joint clean, so we are trying DIY in home composting 

Just a simple empty cat litter bin with few holes drilled around the top and bottom



We are adding any uneaten food, poo, plant bits that I have to pull or trim around the house or enclosure (only Odin-safe ones), some dirt and torn bits of paper towels that I use to clean things up around his place and old newspapers and paper bags that are biodegradable. I set the bin in one of the gardening trays for the inevitable leakage of moisture or dirt. I will toss it every few days or whatever is necessary and I guess we will see what happens. I have never done bin style composting, always just a pile in the corner of the yard, but if I can get a little tort-only compost for his enclosure it will be pretty cool. 
(BTW, The sprayer in the above pic is absolutely GLORIOUS for misting his enclosure!- highly recommend!)




Another fun thing; I got him a pumpkin a while back that I occasionally give a chunk of for tasty beak sharpening, and of course include the seeds, well>>>






Of course as soon as he sees one he nibbles it down to the ground, but they are popping up all over!

And I certainly can't argue the results of this endeavor. Look at that growth! 
I swear he just gets prettier and smoother every day.




Odin's Happy Land!


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## Anyfoot (Dec 6, 2015)

Odin's Gma said:


> Still tweaking temps and trying to keep food growing. The temps in the room still dip as low as 75 on occasion, but in the enclosure all areas are up by about 2 degrees on average. I added a CHE to the greenhouse which is on a thermostat, and in that area it is holding a pretty steady 84-88 degrees with 70-90% humidity
> View attachment 157823
> View attachment 157834
> 
> ...


 Just fantastic. Love it.


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## Odin's Gma (Dec 6, 2015)

Anyfoot said:


> Just fantastic. Love it.


Thanks! So does the pooper! Er...I mean Odin. 

And, back to the earlier conversation with @Tom . I call his feeding box the dry box, but I also mentioned that dry is a relative term. It is misted daily and underneath the bark it is moist enough for the pumpkin seeds (and any other errant seeds that find their way there) to sprout. Also moist enough for the base of the opuntia to rot after a time, which is why the 2nd of the three was removed (after he chewed the life out of it, knocked it down and ate all but the bottom.)
It is also why I only put in the smaller opuntia. They are not only more tender and therefore preferred by the beast, but by keeping that larger ones safe from him, they remain "breeding stock" and back-up food for when he destroys everything in his enclosure and I have to whip up daily salads.


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## Odin's Gma (Dec 10, 2015)

Toying with options to enclose his self dug burrow:
One of my planting trays was broken, so I cut off a corner:



And wedged it in behind the hibiscus, over his burrow, or should I say, big hole:






Just two staples and it was done. I am hoping the hibiscus rebounds and leafs out a bit more to give him more shade, but if not I will either plant more in front of it , or maybe add some black plastic strips from the top, like a curtain, to give him the dark, humid, top-secret lair he desires.


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## Odin's Gma (Dec 10, 2015)

I decided to just go for it!
Took a piece of the same black plastic we used to line the greenhouse, cut it into strips about 3/4 of the way up




Rolled the uncut portion over a couple of times to give it more strength and stapled it into the piece I added in earlier.



Then, I went to the other side, leaned WAY over the small 3 foot section, crammed my camera into the doorway of the greenhouse (not an easy feat with my shorter stature and tiny "T-rex" arms) and snapped a couple of photos of the Mighty Odin guarding his secret lair.




It ain't pretty, but it will keep it darker and slightly more warm and humid than it already was. I angled up the strips on the side he enters and exits from (where he is standing in the above pics) just to make it a more obvious opening for him in case he doesn't really understand the strips yet.
For now it is easily removable in case he doesn't like it, just two heavy duty staples for the box piece and two household staples for the curtain. If he likes it I can make modifications to make it sturdier, and if he doesn't it can come right back out.
Now, we wait.


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## Odin's Gma (Dec 10, 2015)

So far so good for Odin's lair. He has spent a good portion of the day either hiding in there or guarding the opening and every time he comes out he sits at the opening for a bit, stretches his leg, lets out a big yawn, and then wanders around looking for food.
The temp low and high are 83 and 88 degrees with 85-90% humidity, roughly the same as the greenhouse but with less variation. The greenhouse can drop as low as 80-81 degrees and down to 75% humidity, although I think that is when I have it open for longer periods of time to seed it or do clean-up.
I am going to leave the temp probe in there for a couple of days and see if there is really a noticeable difference. Even if there isn't, it is still darker and more private, which I think he will appreciate.


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## Odin's Gma (Dec 13, 2015)

Since Odin has been in a mood since yesterday morning and refusing to come out of his new burrow to eat unless I dig him out and place him in front of his food, I have been obsessing more than usual. So, I made a few adjustments to temps. I now have all three CHEs on two separate thermostats to hopefully ensure more even heat, and so far it seems to be working!
The top one is the greenhouse temp, middle is room temp, bottom is humidity in the greenhouse. 




We are also finally getting some green! Tons of grasses and clover sprouting all over, hopefully we will be able to discontinue the daily salads in a week or so. *fingers crossed*



I also finally cut the plexi cover to mostly enclose the small, connector box. I did a pretty crappy job, but it's slightly better than it was before.



Odin also got a roommate again! His old buddy, Wolverine decided he wanted to get in on all of that warm, humid goodness:




Unfortunately, Odin refused to come out of his burrow to say hi.
He is just a grumpy little booger this weekend!


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## FLGirl41 (Dec 15, 2015)

I just now saw this thread but read all 10 pages in one sitting. Your devotion to Odin is admirable-- I wish all torts could be so loved! He is a really gorgeous tortoise, and his shell growth is amazingly smooth. That's clearly a reflection of your mindful care. Please keep posting pictures and updates-- great job!


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## Odin's Gma (Dec 19, 2015)

Thanks! How could you not love that grumpy face? 

S, I am not thrilled with the growth in the greenhouse. For weeks I have chalked it up to him being a hungry and destructive little grouch, I am slowly beginning to think I have either lighting or humidity issues. Everything sprouts well but nothing seems to get too far beyond that point. It does not appear to be damping off, but could it be that much of what I am growing cannot handle the extreme humidity? 
Frankly, I think the lights are more likely, and I would rather adjust the lighting than mess with the humidity, so I am now shopping for actual grow lights (the red/blue ones) to augment the daylight spectrum fluorescents I have.

Odin did not appreciate me talking about making changes




And politely told me to kiss his rear shell



But this is what I am looking at. At a glance there seems to be a lot of green, but that is almost all new growth from regular seeding, most everything else has died or is dying (the hibiscus is completely Odin's fault and he has no problem admitting it)



And in the small box the spider plant and aloe vera are still growing very well, but they are darn near impossible to kill. The grass in that box has been reseeded multiple times.



So, back to the drawing board as soon as I find lights that will work with what I have. Wish me luck!


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## Anyfoot (Dec 19, 2015)

Odin's Gma said:


> Thanks! How could you not love that grumpy face?
> 
> S, I am not thrilled with the growth in the greenhouse. For weeks I have chalked it up to him being a hungry and destructive little grouch, I am slowly beginning to think I have either lighting or humidity issues. Everything sprouts well but nothing seems to get too far beyond that point. It does not appear to be damping off, but could it be that much of what I am growing cannot handle the extreme humidity?
> Frankly, I think the lights are more likely, and I would rather adjust the lighting than mess with the humidity, so I am now shopping for actual grow lights (the red/blue ones) to augment the daylight spectrum fluorescents I have.
> ...


 Made me laugh again, your posts are just such good reading 
You said all the plants are not growing in the greenhouse part, do you open that zip cover daily to allow air circulation? 
Your spider plant is getting air circulation through the gaps near the lights. 
Would a spider plant grow healthy in the greenhouse part? If not it would suggest to me air circulation.


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## Odin's Gma (Dec 19, 2015)

Anyfoot said:


> Made me laugh again, your posts are just such good reading
> You said all the plants are not growing in the greenhouse part, do you open that zip cover daily to allow air circulation?
> Your spider plant is getting air circulation through the gaps near the lights.
> Would a spider plant grow healthy in the greenhouse part? If not it would suggest to me air circulation.


Maybe Odin just brings out my cheeky side? 

I have a fan installed in the greenhouse for circulation, but I could turn it up a bit for additional air movement. I turned it down a while back when I was trying to get the temps up, but I don't see that being a problem anymore with the addition of the CHE.
I was thinking about putting a spider plant in the greenhouse to see how it does and I have a few of the spider-babies starting to root in a water dish , so when that happens I am trying it!
Other than that, I am just kind of excited to try the red/blue grow lights, then I can rename the place Odin's Disco!


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## Odin's Gma (Dec 20, 2015)

After turning up the fan a bit late yesterday I awoke to humidity of 69%. It hopped right back up to 77% after I refreshed his water bowl and misted and i'm sure it will climb higher now that it is closed up again, but I can live with lows of 69% as long as the temps remain in the mid 80's, which they are (86 right now). I still have a bit more range on the fan to increase airflow, but once again, it's a waiting game. I will give it a week or so to see if it helps the plants perk up any, but I believe I already found a workable red/blue LED light set-up to order and have some ideas for installation.
I just wish I had brought my camera down for his wake-up and breakfast! His first stop this morning was his water dish. He put his foot and his face in the water and drank deeply for nearly a minute! Not something I usually get to see unless he is in the bath, and it is ADORABLE!
I also added a bit of grated pumpkin (with guts and seeds) to his salad, and he was pretty fired up about that. He hasn't had any in over a week and he loves it. 

Pro-tip: Now that fresh pumpkin is no longer readily available I keep big chunks of it in the freezer. It grates up beautifully even when frozen solid, and so does opuntia fruit.


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## Anyfoot (Dec 20, 2015)

Odin's Gma said:


> After turning up the fan a bit late yesterday I awoke to humidity of 69%. It hopped right back up to 77% after I refreshed his water bowl and misted and i'm sure it will climb higher now that it is closed up again, but I can live with lows of 69% as long as the temps remain in the mid 80's, which they are (86 right now). I still have a bit more range on the fan to increase airflow, but once again, it's a waiting game. I will give it a week or so to see if it helps the plants perk up any, but I believe I already found a workable red/blue LED light set-up to order and have some ideas for installation.
> I just wish I had brought my camera down for his wake-up and breakfast! His first stop this morning was his water dish. He put his foot and his face in the water and drank deeply for nearly a minute! Not something I usually get to see unless he is in the bath, and it is ADORABLE!
> I also added a bit of grated pumpkin (with guts and seeds) to his salad, and he was pretty fired up about that. He hasn't had any in over a week and he loves it.
> 
> Pro-tip: Now that fresh pumpkin is no longer readily available I keep big chunks of it in the freezer. It grates up beautifully even when frozen solid, and so does opuntia fruit.


Blue/red lights sound a good idea and should improve plant growth vastly. The faster you circulate the air flow the more it dries everything up, then humidity drops. Essentially this is what wind is doing, drying the land.
If you have no success and humidity drops too low, try turning fan off but some how have a small air hole at each end of your greenhouse so you get a slower air flow. 
Just thoughts.


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## Odin's Gma (Dec 20, 2015)

Anyfoot said:


> Blue/red lights sound a good idea and should improve plant growth vastly. The faster you circulate the air flow the more it dries everything up, then humidity drops. Essentially this is what wind is doing, drying the land.
> If you have no success and humidity drops too low, try turning fan off but some how have a small air hole at each end of your greenhouse so you get a slower air flow.
> Just thoughts.


The good thing about the fan I ordered is that it has an adjustable dial. It can be set all the way down to barely moving or high enough that I can see the hibiscus leaves moving ever so slightly in the breeze. I have it mounted on top of the light frame and angled up towards the peak for a convection current, moving the rising hotter air down and around the greenhouse lengthwise. Hopefully it's just a matter of getting the right setting on the fan, the room temps can drop as low as 76 degrees so I would prefer to keep the greenhouse closed.
Where there is a will there is a way! I just have to find it.


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## Odin's Gma (Jan 17, 2016)

We have had a pretty brutal cold snap this last week (below zero most every day) and generally our lower level gets pretty chilly when that happen, but I am pleased to say that although the temps in the room have dropped as low as 70 at floor level, the temps in the enclosure temps have held steady at 78 and up. Considering that January is historically our coldest month and we are halfway through it, I am finally confident that having him downstairs is going to work! 
Odin, on the other hand, has spent the week being a complete and utter wanker. Completely refusing to exit his burrow, even to eat. Which means I have had to dig him out (or attempt to) twice a day, every day while he digs his claws in and "hisses".
He is exasperating.
He seems to be getting over it finally, but it was a long week.
The plus side of his anti-social behaviour is, of course, GREEN!
There is even grass sprouting in the dry box.  
That is the area nearest the shelves of seeds. I hold the dish I use over it while I pour different seeds in and mix them up before tossing them about the enclosure. I knew that seeds fall as I do it (which is why I do it, so they don't fall in the carpet) but I never expected growth since under and around the ramp is one of his regular trampling areas.



The middle box is also brilliant green!



Some of the seedlings are large enough that I can even tell what they are! I spy dandelion, clover and at least three different grasses! I know there is more but heck if I can tell what they are yet.



This is the grump, irritated that I was digging around in this greenhouse. I took about a dozen assorted squash seeds and planted them around the place, it'll be a wonderful treasure hunt for him when they sprout!




And in the greenhouse we have grass upwards of 6 inches high with piles of other plants and weeds sneaking in around them



Including the remains of one pumpkin plant that he hasn't destroyed yet. It is a whopping 4 inches tall and actually has a real leaf! He never lets them get this big, so this is a real feat! 



And his morning salad awaits! Lots of banana leaf, hibiscus, timothy hay and grasses along with some spring mix and mazuri LS, with a side of opuntia fruit, if he doesn't come out in the next couple hours I will have to dig him out, so he better get on it!



The goal today is to increase the size of the burrow overhang and move the hibiscus. I have been dreading it because of how angry he will get (hence the opuntia fruit) and what a pain it's going to be, but with his recent growth spurt he has been steadily increasing the size of the hole and the overhang is no longer completely covering it.
Not sure of the details yet, but I am working on it. Wish me luck!


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## Anyfoot (Jan 17, 2016)

Odin's Gma said:


> We have had a pretty brutal cold snap this last week (below zero most every day) and generally our lower level gets pretty chilly when that happen, but I am pleased to say that although the temps in the room have dropped as low as 70 at floor level, the temps in the enclosure temps have held steady at 78 and up. Considering that January is historically our coldest month and we are halfway through it, I am finally confident that having him downstairs is going to work!
> Odin, on the other hand, has spent the week being a complete and utter wanker. Completely refusing to exit his burrow, even to eat. Which means I have had to dig him out (or attempt to) twice a day, every day while he digs his claws in and "hisses".
> He is exasperating.
> He seems to be getting over it finally, but it was a long week.
> ...


Excellent read as always, boy does the mighty look grumpy today.


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## Odin's Gma (Jan 17, 2016)

Anyfoot said:


> Excellent read as always, boy does the mighty look grumpy today.


Which is why I chose today to upset his apple cart, I mean, how much more of a jerk can he be? Right? 

I removed the old topper and was greeted with a vicious hiss.



I moved him to the dry box where he proceeded to seethe with murderous rage


And quickly pulled out and replanted the poor, half-dead hibiscus and installed the new topper. The same as before but about twice the size




I don't know if the hibiscus will recover, but I am hopeful. It continues to put out new growth on the few stems he hasn't destroyed.



I then brought him up for a bath and his weekly scrub and check-up



Where he continued to pout



And then fill the sink with rage-poop. I kid you not, it was an easy 4-6 ounces of poo, I have never seen anything like it. I cleaned it up, rinsed the sink and picked him up to scrub his belly. The turd-nado continued, unabated. I could feel him getting lighter! I have seen 6 pound humans poop less!



I brought him back down, set him in the dry box, and he proceeded to storm into the middle box, ram his face against the wall, and plot my death underneath his MVB




Until he realized I had made him a snack



And begrudgingly took a break from his assassination planning to storm down the ramp to eat



He looked like he was considering not eating just to spite me....



But eventually gave in




Now he is rage eating so he can make more poop to shoot at me 




Oh, and the answer to my original question? He can be A LOT bigger jerk.


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## Stitchpunk (Jan 17, 2016)

what an adorable grumpyface! But turd-nado?! I kinda wanted a photo of that......Purely so I have some idea of what I'm letting myself in for when I get my baby...


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## Odin's Gma (Jan 17, 2016)

Stitchpunk said:


> what an adorable grumpyface! But turd-nado?! I kinda wanted a photo of that......Purely so I have some idea of what I'm letting myself in for when I get my baby...


I suppose whirl-turd would be more accurate. 
It was awful! Generally the turds hold together long enough for me to scoop them out and drop them in the toilet, but with the opuntia fruit this morning they turned into a brown pool of partially digested grass and leaves as soon as I got the scoop near them. I had little choice but to pull the plug and let it all swirl down the drain....multiple times.

I swear he was smiling as I cursed......


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## Stitchpunk (Jan 17, 2016)

Odin's Gma said:


> I suppose whirl-turd would be more accurate.
> It was awful! Generally the turds hold together long enough for me to scoop them out and drop them in the toilet, but with the opuntia fruit this morning they turned into a brown pool of partially digested grass and leaves as soon as I got the scoop near them. I had little choice but to pull the plug and let it all swirl down the drain....multiple times.
> 
> I swear he was smiling as I cursed......


ha! Who needs babies when you've got a tortoise! Are you sure his name isn't really Stewie Griffin?


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## Odin's Gma (Jan 17, 2016)

Stitchpunk said:


> ha! Who needs babies when you've got a tortoise! Are you sure his name isn't really Stewie Griffin?


On the plus side I no longer have to worry if he is eating enough grass and hay. I feel like a just received a Masters in Coprology.


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## Odin's Gma (Jan 17, 2016)

After a week refusing to come out of his burrow, he spent all afternoon refusing to go in. 
He spent the afternoon walking over to it, bumping the plastic with his nose, looking angry, and then storming back, biting seedlings along the way, to one of the other boxes to sit under one of the two lamps.
He is now, FINALLY in there and sleeping soundly after yet another meal.

*sigh*

What a day.


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## Stitchpunk (Jan 17, 2016)

Now I wish I was a tortoise. You get to be as grumpy as you like for no particular reason, you don't have to share a room with anyone, eat as much as you want whenever you want, nap a lot, and have a Big Giant Hand that brings you food and does all the housework. Paradise!


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## Odin's Gma (Jan 17, 2016)

Stitchpunk said:


> Now I wish I was a tortoise. You get to be as grumpy as you like for no particular reason, you don't have to share a room with anyone, eat as much as you want whenever you want, nap a lot, and have a Big Giant Hand that brings you food and does all the housework. Paradise!
> 
> View attachment 162726



Fingers crossed for my next life!


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## Odin's Gma (Jan 24, 2016)

I ended up feeling under the weather this weekend so I got next to nothing done, but the greenhouse, and and banana plant are beautiful:






Stitchpunk said:


> what an adorable grumpyface! But turd-nado?! I kinda wanted a photo of that......Purely so I have some idea of what I'm letting myself in for when I get my baby...



You're going to regret asking for this......



And that's pretty mild.

Let's end this on a happy note, with a pretty tort enjoying his noms, pre-bath and pre-turnado.


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## Stitchpunk (Jan 24, 2016)

Odin's Gma said:


> I ended up feeling under the weather this weekend so I got next to nothing done, but the greenhouse, and and banana plant are beautiful:
> 
> View attachment 163383
> 
> ...



lol! Ah well, I'm guessing it doesn't smell anything like as bad as cat poo...


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## Odin's Gma (Jan 24, 2016)

Stitchpunk said:


> lol! Ah well, I'm guessing it doesn't smell anything like as bad as cat poo...


Not even close! It has more of an earthy, composty type odor. Honestly until recently I hadn't even detected an odor because his turds were so tiny, now....yeah...not so tiny. But i wouldn't call the odor overtly unpleasant, of course i'm a Minnesota gal, and I don't find cow and horse manure overtly unpleasant either.


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## Stitchpunk (Jan 24, 2016)

Odin's Gma said:


> Not even close! It has more of an earthy, composty type odor. Honestly until recently I hadn't even detected an odor because his turds were so tiny, now....yeah...not so tiny. But i wouldn't call the odor overtly unpleasant, of course i'm a Minnesota gal, and I don't find cow and horse manure overtly unpleasant either.



It's a small country here, I'm pretty familiar with the smell even though I live in the city. I think I'll be able to cope


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## Odin's Gma (Jan 24, 2016)

Stitchpunk said:


> It's a small country here, I'm pretty familiar with the smell even though I live in the city. I think I'll be able to cope


And, call me crazy, but when Odin has had fruit there seems to be more odor. He gets a bit of grated pumpkin or opuntia fruit 2-3 times a month and after that it is always a bit more ripe. 
Otherwise, like today, it is nearly nonexistent, at least to me. I am even composting the waste from his enclosure along with his waste, in a bin in his room, and it just smells like good, rich dirt to me.


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## naturalman91 (Jan 24, 2016)

what do you have growing in there? looks very nice i might add.

i had a greenhouse like that to but after about a year the plastic covering became brittle


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## Odin's Gma (Jan 25, 2016)

naturalman91 said:


> what do you have growing in there? looks very nice i might add.
> 
> i had a greenhouse like that to but after about a year the plastic covering became brittle


Oh, geez, a lot! The big plants are hibiscus, banana, spider plants, aloe, opuntia and palm, but it is primarily grasses, about 10 different kinds, along with a few kinds of clover, dandelion and a few kinds of plantain. I also always throw in some veggie seeds like meslcun, radish, carrot, squashes etc. I like to make it different every time I seed, and I seed at least once or twice a week. He rarely lets anything get taller than a couple inches, as a matter of fact, most of that awesome green that I posted from over the weekend is now nibbled and flattened. He seems to have gone on a bit of a tear last night and today. 

Yeah, I saw your thread, that's a bummer! I bought an extra greenhouse just in case I wanted to expand or if something happened, but I also didn't plan for it to last more than a year or so considering how fast sullys can grow, so it isn't as discouraging as it could be. For now it is suiting it's purpose beautifully, but soon I will have to start planning for next winter!


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## Odin's Gma (Jan 31, 2016)

I was potting up my wandering jew cuttings and thinking how I would like to put them in Odin's enclosure and suddenly it hit me! After quick trip to Lowes and an hour of so of work, new hide, new plant space!


It started with a piece of mesh gutter cover. I spent as much time wandering Lowes looking for something strong enough yet still workable for my vision, and this was it. But first I had to straighten out the folds on the edge. That was easy.



Then I had to cut it to fit the corner. That was kind of a pain in the ***. Over the last few months I seem to be developing a bit of arthritis or carpal tunnel in my right hand, so it took longer than I thought, but I got it! Stubbornness for the win!
It wasn't wide enough to just cut one piece so I had to cut two to make it large enough..




I attached the two pieces with zip ties




Removed the old plastic cover (I am going to pay for that)




Took the plastic curtain off of that and attached it to the mesh with zip ties




Checked it for fit (he is still mad)




Dug him out and sent him on his way so I could staple it to the trim with heavy duty staples (now he is enraged)



PERFECT! (he is going to kill me in my sleep)


Pu the pot on it to check for size, stability and strength



And I was pleased! It's a shallow pot, half filled with orchid bark to minimize the weight. I also threw in some pumpkin seeds so hopefully they will also trail over the edge



Odin is the exact opposite of pleased



And, since he is already fuming, I figured now was a good time to add in the other small bromeliad I bought a couple of months ago



Hopefully he will be kinder to it than he is to the opuntia



Pic through the greenhouse plastic of the newly camouflaged hide. Hopefully he isn't so angry that he never uses it again........


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## Odin's Gma (Feb 7, 2016)

MY LIGHTS ARE HERE!
Excuse the shouting but I am so very excited!

Bought here:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B014FCV98A/?tag=exoticpetnetw-20

They don't look like much out of the box:



To be extra safe I wrapped all the connections in electrical tape:



Instead of using the sticky-back, I used zip ties:



Looped the end connections in the corner upward to avoid drips:



Set them on the same timer as the main light in the greenhouse



And tried to take decent pictures of the end result, and didn't do a very good job of it.....








I also looped it up over the middle bracket on the end with the CHE to avoid any heat damage




I don't know if it's going to help the plants at all, but for the price it is worth a shot. That is also why I used zip ties. If they are a bomb I can easily remove them. 
Odin refused to come out of his burrow and check them out. He is already very angry with me for all the digging yesterday.
Two new banana plants, a mulberry, grape vine, raspberry bush, strawberry plants! Best weekend ever for me, reason to pout for a month for Odin.


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## Cheryl Hills (Feb 8, 2016)

All I can say is WOW. What a tort house, and for him to be mad. He will get over it!


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## Odin's Gma (Feb 8, 2016)

Cheryl Hills said:


> All I can say is WOW. What a tort house, and for him to be mad. He will get over it!


Thanks, but temper tantrums are kind of a way of life for him so I doubt it.


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## Odin's Gma (Mar 5, 2016)

I am still figuring out how to use it, but today I set up my old iPhone as a remote camera so I can peek on Odin when I am upstairs or away from home! I have video and sound! WHOO!
It has motion detector video and apparently I can speak through the mic too, but I don't have a clue how yet. I am going to test that feature to scare the bejesus out of my son when he gets home.


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## Anyfoot (Mar 5, 2016)

Odin's Gma said:


> I am still figuring out how to use it, but today I set up my old iPhone as a remote camera so I can peek on Odin when I am upstairs or away from home! I have video and sound! WHOO!
> It has motion detector video and apparently I can speak through the mic too, but I don't have a clue how yet. I am going to test that feature to scare the bejesus out of my son when he gets home.


 Nice. Put the video of your scared son on. Lol. That's funny. I did it to our daughter some years back.


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## Odin's Gma (Mar 5, 2016)

Anyfoot said:


> Nice. Put the video of your scared son on. Lol. That's funny. I did it to our daughter some years back.


If I can figure out how you bet I will!


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## Amron (May 3, 2016)

Fantastic mansion, fantastic pics and fantastic writing, what a lucky tort


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## Oxalis (May 4, 2016)

@Odin's Gma, how is your spring planting coming? Do you have any sunshine yet? Ours is off and on. I'm so patient for bigger plants!


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## Odin's Gma (May 5, 2016)

Amron said:


> Fantastic mansion, fantastic pics and fantastic writing, what a lucky tort


And a spoiled one! While prepping this years outdoor playpen, I am already thinking ahead for next winters indoor expansion. It never ends. 



Oxalis said:


> @Odin's Gma, how is your spring planting coming? Do you have any sunshine yet? Ours is off and on. I'm so patient for bigger plants!


Ours is pretty meh. A good deal of sunshine, but the temps aren't much above frost stage at night, so it is slow going.
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/odins-playpen-expansion.140349/
I want his jungle back! 
Of course Odin is thrilled to really stretch his legs and, of course, to eat everything green. Unfortunately, when he gets tired he paces for a place to hide. His last years cave is no more, and his new one isn't complete, and with no big plants yet he can get a bit salty.
The dandelions help.


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## Cheryl Hills (May 5, 2016)

Well, I am planing my outdoors enclosure. It is going to be at least 10 X 30 with possibilities ti enlarge if I need to. Hopefully I can put all my Russians in the one enclosure but if I need to, I can separate them within the enclosure. Then I have to build an area for my box turtles too. Can't wait for the weather to get a bit better so I can start t I still have restrictions on what I can do. Dang back surgery! My boyfriend will do what I can't though.


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## Jenny & Tort (Jun 13, 2016)

Wow your enclosure is great! I have ordered my greenhouse and am going to work soon to make my own sulcata a fabulous home like you have. If you had anything you would do differently what would it be? Also, I am worried about my little guy digging into the plastic and making holes in it. He is a ferocious burrower and I don't want to end up with a damaged carpet. Have you had any problems with your tort making holes in the plastic? Also did you use treated or untreated wood? Also can they eat the Wandering Jew? I have one in my house but never realized it could be a snack source! Thanks!


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## naturalman91 (Jun 13, 2016)

Odin's Gma said:


> Which is why I chose today to upset his apple cart, I mean, how much more of a jerk can he be? Right?
> 
> I removed the old topper and was greeted with a vicious hiss.
> View attachment 162683
> ...




what kind of grass seed do you grow in there? that looks awesome


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## Odin's Gma (Jun 13, 2016)

Jenny & Tort said:


> Wow your enclosure is great! I have ordered my greenhouse and am going to work soon to make my own sulcata a fabulous home like you have. If you had anything you would do differently what would it be? Also, I am worried about my little guy digging into the plastic and making holes in it. He is a ferocious burrower and I don't want to end up with a damaged carpet. Have you had any problems with your tort making holes in the plastic? Also did you use treated or untreated wood? Also can they eat the Wandering Jew? I have one in my house but never realized it could be a snack source! Thanks!



Funny you asked, I WOULD NOT (and I cannot stress that emphatically enough) use an under-soil coil heater!
Here is the story:
Thursday at just before 4PM my husband called me at work and told me to get my *ss home, because the tortoise was burning down the house.
That was a tortuously long drive home.
He got home from work and the house was filled with fumes! I still don't know if Odin clawed or bit through the wire heater or if if shorted out or what, but it was slowly burning and melting the plastic mesh cloth we used to adhere the wire underneath the dirt.
It has been days of clean-up. 
Imagine the lingering stench of melting plastic and burning, damp soil......
I had to remove all of the plants, the plastic landscape cloth, wire heating element most of the soil, the greenhouse cover and much of the other items that were in the room. Everything had to be turned off for the room to cool down and the windows were left open for days. Odin was kept in a plastic box for 2 nights before we felt it was safe enough for him to go back into his home, and he is still refusing to enter the greenhouse.

I am still stressed, and so is he.

On the plus side, he is well, no visible injuries, still eating well, getting extra long baths daily and spending as much time outside and out of his enclosure and room as time allows.

I'm a mess, not gonna lie. 

Other than that, I am SUPER glad I bought a back-up greenhouse and had everything I needed on hand to gut and rebuild the whole thing on short notice. It is all reseeded and planted, and the residual smell gets better every day, so ALWAYS have a back-up plan and extra supplies on hand and DON'T USE UNDER SOIL HEATERS!!!!!!!

Other than that, I am terribly happy with the whole thing!




naturalman91 said:


> what kind of grass seed do you grow in there? that looks awesome



A bunch! 
Here is this past winters gardening thread, with a link to last years. Post number 5 has the list of all the plants and seeds. Happy torting!

http://www.tortoiseforum.org/thread...ndoor-winter-gardening-thread-sulcata.126673/


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## bryson white (Jun 13, 2016)

very cool setup and Odin is huge .


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## Odin's Gma (Jun 13, 2016)

bryson white said:


> very cool setup and Odin is huge .


Thank you, and he is getting bigger by the minute it seems! I haven't weighed him for over a month, but he is at least 4 pounds I think, and somewhere between 9-11 inchesnow (?) 
I will try and wrangle him long enough to be more precise soon, but he is kind of in a mood this week, obviously.


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## Jenny & Tort (Jun 13, 2016)

Odin's Gma said:


> Funny you asked, I WOULD NOT (and I cannot stress that emphatically enough) use an under-soil coil heater!
> Here is the story:
> Thursday at just before 4PM my husband called me at work and told me to get my *ss home, because the tortoise was burning down the house.
> That was a tortuously long drive home.
> ...




Oh my... Good to know! I will not use the heater!


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## bryson white (Jun 13, 2016)

Odin's Gma said:


> Thank you, and he is getting bigger by the minute it seems! I haven't weighed him for over a month, but he is at least 4 pounds I think, and somewhere between 9-11 inchesnow (?)
> I will try and wrangle him long enough to be more precise soon, but he is kind of in a mood this week, obviously.


well just keep us posted he is a very interesting tortoise .


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## naturalman91 (Jun 13, 2016)

Odin's Gma said:


> Funny you asked, I WOULD NOT (and I cannot stress that emphatically enough) use an under-soil coil heater!
> Here is the story:
> Thursday at just before 4PM my husband called me at work and told me to get my *ss home, because the tortoise was burning down the house.
> That was a tortuously long drive home.
> ...




Thanks! making me jealous over here lol did you let it grow before putting your tort in it ?


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## kelii (Jun 13, 2016)

How do you get your grasses to grow so well? Mine reaches a certain size and just dies.


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## Taylor T. (Jun 14, 2016)

Odin's Gma said:


> Thank you, and he is getting bigger by the minute it seems! I haven't weighed him for over a month, but he is at least 4 pounds I think, and somewhere between 9-11 inchesnow (?)
> I will try and wrangle him long enough to be more precise soon, but he is kind of in a mood this week, obviously.


Four pounds! He is growing very quickly and nicely.


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## Odin's Gma (Jun 14, 2016)

bryson white said:


> well just keep us posted he is a very interesting tortoise .


I snagged him after my son brought him in from his daily dinner al fresco, and he is @ 8.5 inches long and 4.7 pounds!


naturalman91 said:


> Thanks! making me jealous over here lol did you let it grow before putting your tort in it ?


Yes, for several days, but I also started a bunch of plant flats weeks prior and transplanted a lot so he didn't destroy everything immediately (it took at least a week or so for that!)


kelii said:


> How do you get your grasses to grow so well? Mine reaches a certain size and just dies.


Mine do too, even with the grow lights, and if they don't he eats them, so either way I am reseeding at least once every two weeks. I buy in bulk.


Taylor T. said:


> Four pounds! He is growing very quickly and nicely.


Yeah he is! I have to step up my gardening game!


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## Jenny & Tort (Jun 20, 2016)

I used your enclosure as an example to make my own! Mine is not as big as yours but it should be good enough for another year or two, then Ill just use it as an actual greenhouse!


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## Odin's Gma (Jun 21, 2016)

Jenny & Tort said:


> I used your enclosure as an example to make my own! Mine is not as big as yours but it should be good enough for another year or two, then Ill just use it as an actual greenhouse!


Beautiful! That is my plan for ours eventually too, possibly as soon as next year the way Odin is growing!


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## sue white (Oct 23, 2016)

really great love it


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## LadyBlaze (Oct 21, 2017)

First off, this is an AMAZING enclosure. Absolutely fantastic!!! 
Secondly, I am curious to how you keep your cats from jumping into the open areas of the enclosure. I have two cats of my own and I need to have a screen top on the enclosure or else my cats would jump in! Do you keep the door to the area he is located in shut? Overall, super impressed with all your hard work!!


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