# I would like your opinions



## Az tortoise compound (Oct 28, 2010)

Can a person that breeds tortoises to sell also be involved in a rescue program? Or are they mutually exclusive?


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## Kristina (Oct 28, 2010)

I do both. I have several rescues in my breeding groups, some that I adopted, others that were surrendered to me directly. 

I have quite a few reptiles surrendered to me each year, plus I am contacted by the county whenever someone tries to surrender a reptile to them - they don't take them. They come to me.

I think that as long as you are responsible about it, it isn't a problem. I am not 501(3)c, and I don't receive any outside funding. If I choose to make a little money for the care and feeding of the animals that I bring in, I think that is my business and no one else has any right to say anything about it.

As far as a funded 501(3)c not for profit - well, they probably shouldn't. That is a whole other ballpark.


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## Missy (Oct 28, 2010)

I think you can do both. I do not ever plan to breed but if I were going to I would like to think I could still rescue and re-home unwanted torts and breed too. I think where the problem comes in is when a certain breed is over populated and breeders continue to breed and sell hatchlings cheap just to get rid of them. Like any other animal there are some people that should not breed anything. I no there are good breeders out there that breed healthy hatchlings and make sure they get good homes and the right care. Lets face it, without breeders a lot of us would not ever get a chance to have our beloved torts.


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## Yvonne G (Oct 28, 2010)

I think it would be unethical for a person who takes in a free rescued tortoise to turn around and sell the tortoise for $$$. But to put a rescued tortoise into a breeding program then sell the babies, I see nothing wrong with that.


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## motero (Oct 28, 2010)

Should Rescues breed....No!
Can a breeder help rescue.....Yes!


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## onarock (Oct 28, 2010)

motero said:


> Should Rescues breed....No!
> Can a breeder help rescue.....Yes!



Should Rescues breed....No!
Is that animal shelter Cat and Dog theory?


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## terryo (Oct 28, 2010)

OK Here's my 2 cents. You are a breeder who sells for profit. Am I right about this? If not, I apologize. You want to rescue a large species to breed for profit. If you go to a rescue that comes from the climate that you do, I'm sure they would be more understanding. For example....here in New York, there is a rescue and most all the Sulcata's that come in are from people who live in New York, and most had no idea how to care for such a large animal. They most likely bought them on line for $40....cheap enough, and cute as a button. Later on they bring them to this rescue all pyramiding, in very poor health, and the rescue becomes over run with them. Sometimes they can't even take any more in because they isn't enough room to care for them. Now a breeder come's alone and wants one. Should the rescue hand over a Sulcata....for example.....to breed more? The people in the rescue's here feel very strongly about breeding Sulcata. Where you live, in a warm climate, maybe your rescue's think differently, but not here in New York. 
I don't know if I'm explaining myself right, so I hope you understand. 
So when you say should a breeder be involved in a rescue......it isn't that cut and dry.


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## egyptiandan (Oct 28, 2010)

I don't see anything wrong with breeding a rescued tortoise. Now should a place that purports themselves to be a "rescue" and takes money from people breed tortoises, probably not. 
There is a difference in rescuing tortoises and being a "rescue". If you don't take money (like Kristina) you rescue tortoises. If you take money than you are "a rescue".

Danny


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## terryo (Oct 28, 2010)

Through the years, I've taken in many water turtles, box turtles, and even fostered some until they could find a permanent home for them. No one here as ever asked me for any money. I have contributed to their fund raisers many times, but never "paid" for an animal from a rescue here in NY.
I do know of one that charges a lot for their tortoises, and box turtles. He then uses the money to care for his "rescue" pit bulls. I have never taken any animals from him though.


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## Laura (Oct 28, 2010)

If you are going to breed.. Especially a tort like Sulcatas.. then YES you should also do rescue.. Help those you are putting out there to begin with.. If you breed.. you need to do so Responsibly and not for greed. 
I Dont think you should breed Rescues. There are some cases that it might be ok..


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## Brutha (Oct 28, 2010)

I wouldn't correlate the two. If you're willing and able to properly rescue, then you should rescue. If you're a responsible breeder and wish to properly breed, then you should breed. If you happen to fulfill both descriptions, then do both. The important part is that you do so properly.


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## Sweetness_bug (Oct 28, 2010)

I fell that yes you should be able to do both as long as your not greedy, or out to make a fortune


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## Kristina (Oct 28, 2010)

Laura said:


> I Dont think you should breed Rescues. There are some cases that it might be ok..



Okay, for instance, I have Home's Hingebacks. Three of them are rescues. Home's are heavily imported from Africa, undergo terrible import conditions, and who knows when they will be extinct because there is absolutely no data concerning the amount of them left in the wild.

The way to get a handle on wild collection is to start captive breeding. My first trio, being rescues, should then never get the chance to pass on their genes and help stop wild collection, just because they were rescues?

I don't mean to sound argumentative if it comes off that way, I just want your serious opinion on that particular scenario. Where and how do you draw the line on what is okay to breed and what is not? 

Opinions, anyone?


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## Az tortoise compound (Oct 28, 2010)

Terryo and anyone else interested,

Yes we breed tortoises and try to sell them for profit. We also take in unwanted turtles and tortoises. We usually keep them as pets and don't include them in breeding groups. Sometimes, we will re-home the rescued animals to the right owner. We usually give them to the new owner free. Sometimes I come across an animal that needs rescue right away and the current owner will only part with the animal for cash. Once it is nursed back to health (or whatever it needs depending on situation) I might ask to recoup some of my money. I can't keep them all.

In this case, I saw there were Sulcatas at a rescue that needed help. I am in the position to provide them a great home and more attention than they have ever received in the past. My initial inquiry was shot down quickly in a very rude manner (my opinion). I was trying to keep this very generalized.

I believe we can be breeders, rescuers and educators at the same time. 
Everything we do throughout our day is for the health and well being of our animals.
Every customer I have spoke with since I found this forum has been asked by us to come here in order to learn and share.
I have seen quite a few join.
The rescued animals are never sold for profit.


I posted this thread just to get an idea of the general public's opinion in regards to my question.

I take no offense to any answer. We are all entitled to our opinions. 
If anyone ever has a question or would like to discuss tortoise related matters I encourage the phone calls or emails.


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## egyptiandan (Oct 28, 2010)

Now if we are talking getting tortoises from a rescue, than thats a whole 'nother kettle of fish. I would say most rescues have the policy of not breeding any of the animals "adopted" from them, no matter what species it is. Thats one reason I don't deal with rescues.  I've seen the rules of some orginizations and they say that if they catch you breeding from an animal you adopted, they will take the animal back and even the offspring. Some places make it so hard to adopt that they are flooded with highly adoptable species (Russians and Box turtles) and you'd think that they get a ton of them. When it's just that they never let any go.
So right when you tell a rescue your a breeder, thats the kiss of death for getting any animals from them.
Enough about rescues  as I could go on forever 

Danny


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## Kristina (Oct 28, 2010)

While that is true Danny, there are some that are less stringent. The rescue that my first trio of Hingebacks came from was well aware that I was going to breed them, and was all for it. My three big Redfoots did not come from a "rescue" per se, but the person that I adopted them from certainly DID rescue them, and also knew that they would eventually be bred, and wants a hatchling 

I have a no breeding clause in my contract, which is posted on my website. I also post animals with adoption fees. The kicker is that once I get to know the person adopting, one of two things happens. I either give you the animal gratis, or you get turned down all together. The fees and clauses help to weed out the less than savory characters 

I also want to note that ANY animal that has ever left my care is welcome back, at any time, for ANY reason. I will never turn down someone looking for help or a place for their pet to go. If I for any reason can't take it, I will find an appropriate someone that can. Plain and simple.


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## Balboa (Oct 28, 2010)

Generally speaking I've always been opposed to the no-breeding mentality of rescues. I get it with cats and dogs. There are too many, because of far too many irresponsible owners, and they are capable of living and surviving ferally vitually anywhere. That absolutely EVERY animal that passes through their doors MUST be neutered/spayed is a shame. It causes a downward spiral on the collective gene pool of the Domestic Canine and Cat.

With "exotics" frankly its downright stupid (IMHO). Their gene pool is more like a gene droplet. What fault is it of the tortoise that it should never get to fulfill its "natural destiny"? It didn't pick its owner. If, thanks to a rescue it finds its way into a home where it receives proper care, what harm is there in it making babies versus one obtained elsewhere? Are the rescues saying nobody should own torts period? Convenient how they still get to own torts since they're "rescuing" them. Hmmm that all sounds a little harsh, but I think you get my drift, we're not likely to have a feral/stray tortoise problem in the United States anytime soon.

I do HOWEVER kinda get it with Sulcatas. Awesome torts, great pets, but in all reality, how many people are REALLY able to meet the long term needs of these animals that are available so cheaply? I know I can't, so I won't be getting one. It really ticked me off at the reptile expo I recently attended. Nice looking little Hermanns, a doable tort for a lot of people, $150. Next to him a Sulcata , $50. Both the same size now, both very cute. Which one is more likely to go home with little johnny? Unless we are counting on the 90+ % that die young from neglect to continue doing so, should probably back off on the production and get the price where it should be, eh?

Sooo to the topic. Yes, Breeders should Rescue, especially Sulcatas, they should take back every one that no longer has a home


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## Az tortoise compound (Oct 28, 2010)

kyryah said:


> While that is true Danny, there are some that are less stringent. The rescue that my first trio of Hingebacks came from was well aware that I was going to breed them, and was all for it. My three big Redfoots did not come from a "rescue" per se, but the person that I adopted them from certainly DID rescue them, and also knew that they would eventually be bred, and wants a hatchling
> 
> I have a no breeding clause in my contract, which is posted on my website. I also post animals with adoption fees. The kicker is that once I get to know the person adopting, one of two things happens. I either give you the animal gratis, or you get turned down all together. The fees and clauses help to weed out the less than savory characters
> 
> I also want to note that ANY animal that has ever left my care is welcome back, at any time, for ANY reason. I will never turn down someone looking for help or a place for their pet to go. If I for any reason can't take it, I will find an appropriate someone that can. Plain and simple.



It sounds like we do things similarly. I do not have fees and clauses as we don't advertise rescues. They go to people we know.

It is printed on our care sheets that we will always take a tortoise back at any time.

I am glad to know most of us share the same opinion. I won't knock a rescue because unfortunately they are needed in some areas.

Good luck to the three little Sulcatas I am not allowed to have. I hope they find good homes.


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## Maggie Cummings (Oct 28, 2010)

I think that if you 'rescued' a tortoise you should not sell him for money. Adopt him to a tortoise home for free. Do you want to breed him first? Then do it, but if you rescued the tort and didn't pay for him you shouldn't ask money to place him in a home. I am a very small rescue. I take in turtles and tortoises, rehab them and adopt them out. I don't do very many now. For me the only money involved comes out of my pocket. I don't breed at all.


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## Az tortoise compound (Oct 28, 2010)

Maggie,
I completely agree. I would never sell a tortoise that I rescued. I would have no problem signing a contract stating so, if I was given the opportunity. I just disagree with the "if you breed you are evil and greedy" mentality of some people.
but
It takes all kinds.......


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## terryo (Oct 29, 2010)

Az tortoise compound said:


> Maggie,
> I completely agree. I would never sell a tortoise that I rescued. I would have no problem signing a contract stating so, if I was given the opportunity. I just disagree with the "if you breed you are evil and greedy" mentality of some people.
> but
> It takes all kinds.......



I wish that you could talk to her in person. She is really a wonderful person, who loves her animals, and put endless hours and money of her own into helping them. Some of the Sullies that come in are so deformed and sick, and I know it breaks her heart. You cannot blame her for not wanting to see more Sulcata's being born, and sold when there are so many here in NY that were not raised properly, and need homes. She is a dedicated, kind, and caring human being. I am sorry if you found her offensive but this is, unfortunately the attitude of some people who are trying to change things in this world. I realize now that I should have never posted that, as I'm sure good caring owners can be found on the groups that she belongs to.....


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## DeanS (Oct 29, 2010)

Mick...I can't see ANYONE questioning your integrity...EVERYTHING you do is for the good of the animals. Besides, I'd like to see you tell Perseus NO MORE BREEDING  As a rescue, I don't see you doing any less. Your commitment and compassion are more than evident with your every post!


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## Maggie Cummings (Oct 29, 2010)

Az tortoise compound said:


> Maggie,
> I completely agree. I would never sell a tortoise that I rescued. I would have no problem signing a contract stating so, if I was given the opportunity. I just disagree with the "if you breed you are evil and greedy" mentality of some people.
> but
> It takes all kinds.......



But I don't have that kind of mentality. Evidently I didn't make my thoughts/opinions clear. I think if you rescue a tortoise and breed it then sell the babies that's cool. But you got the initial tort for free(assuming) so I feel you got it for free you should find a home for it for free. Sell the babies but not the initial free tortoise. I'm sorry if that sounds kinda convoluted and I am not making sense here. I just think you got it for free you need to pay it forward. I don't care about breeding and making money from it. Sulcata used to be over bred and rescues in the West were full up and zoos wouldn't take them anymore and they were on a level with feral cats, and I objected to breeding Sulcata then. But I believe the situation has changed now and even tho I am not quite sure how I feel about breeding Sulcata now, I'm beginning to think it may be alright. I am sorry if you got the impression I was one of those who think you are evil and greedy. I don't know you and don't make assumptions about anyone I don't know. I am just a grumpy old lady who mostly minds my own business. You asked for opinions here and I gave you mine without putting names or insults with my opinion


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## terryo (Oct 29, 2010)

maggie3fan said:


> Az tortoise compound said:
> 
> 
> > Maggie,
> ...



He was not talking about you Maggie. Here in New York Sulcata are still on a level with feral cats, and our rescue would not give any of her Sulcata to someone who will breed them to profit from the babies, especially when there are so many unwanted ones here.


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## Maggie Cummings (Oct 29, 2010)

I see that, too late to delete it. My name shouldn't have been put there...


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## onarock (Oct 29, 2010)

On the level with feral cats? Hmmm............


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## terryo (Oct 29, 2010)

"On the level with feral cats",,,a quote from Maggie's post....A figure of speech. A few months ago, there were so many sulcata in this particular rescue, that she had to refuse to take any more in as she had no room for them. I was only trying to help her find homes for them....wow! Wrong move on my part. Won't happen again! I really don't care one way or the other if people breed Sulcata, or where they get them from. Really.....I couldn't care less.


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## Az tortoise compound (Oct 29, 2010)

terryo said:


> Az tortoise compound said:
> 
> 
> > Maggie,
> ...



I am not badmouthing anyone. I tried to be very general with my first post. I can understand where Julie is coming from. She has to have a big heart and really care for these guys otherwise she wouldn't have the strong opinions. I provided her my number and she is welcome to call anytime. I can talk your ear off about torts and love every minute of it

It was just unfortunate my particular email was grouped in with the "greedy" breeders and "flippers". After our interaction, I was really bothered by her impression. I figured I would take the subject here, to the people and ask their opinons.

Terry,
Please keep telling people about the rescues! they need a great home regardless of differing opinions. None of this reflects on you.

Dean,
Thank you. I appreciated that post.

Maggie,
No hard feelings! Your opinion was valued. Thank you.

I am all done with this topic now. I invite anyone to give us a ring if there are ever any questions about the way we operate our business AND rescue tortises.


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## Candy (Oct 29, 2010)

Terry I've been reading this thread for a few days now but haven't posted. I will post now because you are doing the right thing by trying to help out a friend. I think it is very nice that you posted these on here like this. The owner of the rescue will give them to who ever she wants and that will be that. We know that you don't have any control over that so don't work yourself up over it. It's not worth it. :shy:


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## Az tortoise compound (Oct 29, 2010)

Candy said:


> Terry I've been reading this thread for a few days now but haven't posted. I will post now because you are doing the right thing by trying to help out a friend. I think it is very nice that you posted these on here like this. The owner of the rescue will give them to who ever she wants and that will be that. We know that you don't have any control over that so don't work yourself up over it. It's not worth it. :shy:



+1


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## Laura (Oct 29, 2010)

Terry,, you DO care.. that is why you posted.. 
People have to care.. or else we are all in big trouble..


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## Tom (Oct 29, 2010)

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, so let me start by saying I mean no disrespect to anyone. I have several points to make.

1. American society seems to be getting very judgmental and critical of each other. I don't like this trend of jumping to conclusions, meddling in other people's business, trying to control other people's business, and people being opinionated with no basis or experience with which to form such strong opinions. I'm speaking in general terms here, NOT referring to anyone in particular.

2. America was founded upon, and became the greatest, most powerful civilization that has ever existed because of capitalism. Buy low sell high. Supply and demand. A lot of the very complex problems that we are now experiencing stem from interference with these basic principles. Animals, including tortoises, are a salable commodity. People buy and sell them everyday and there is nothing wrong with it. It doesn't matter to me if someone bought 100 baby redfoots and is reselling them, or if some one is given a tort, of any species, and they want to resell it. What matters to me is that the animal is treated well during every stage of its lifelong journey. If someone can turn a small profit AND the animal is well taken care of at all times, I call that a "win-win" situation.

3. I am in the ANIMAL business. I have been since the age of 14. Prior to that, I dreamed of being in the animal business. I buy, sell, trade, train, keep, breed, raise, show, compete, love, cherish, admire, handle, reward, discipline, praise, pet, and generally involve them in my life in every way possible. I do this with fish, reptiles, amphibians, insects, crustaceans, elasmobranchs, mammals, birds, arachnids, etc... This all means different things to different people. For some people, anyone profiting from any animal, in any way, is somehow wrong or immoral. This concept is lunacy to me. My entire life has been about dealing with animals and somehow, in some way "profiting" from it. I have always tried to do the right thing. Sometimes, sadly, I have failed. My stunted, pyramided adult torts are evidence of that failure. But most of the time I succeed. The animals and people involved all benefit and lives are enriched because of it. I try to learn from every mistake and never make it again.

All this talk about buying, selling, rescuing, breeding, etc... has so many millions of technicalities, exceptions, fine points and idiosyncrasies, that it should be very difficult for any of us to form an opinion about somebody else's "business". The OP asked for opinions. My opinion is this: Everyone should always do the right thing. This can take many forms because everyone has a different set of circumstances to deal with. What's right for Julie at the Long Island Rescue, might not be right for the ATC and vice versa. Doesn't make either one of them right or wrong, or good or bad.


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## terryo (Oct 30, 2010)

That was a great post Tom, especially the last paragraph. It's what I've been trying to say, but just couldn't spit it out.


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## Yvonne G (Oct 30, 2010)

Judging from some of the answers here, I'm thinking that some of you have mis-interpreted the question.

If you adopt a tortoise from someone who has "rescued" it, then YOU have not rescued a tortoise, you have adopted it.

The OP was wanting opinions about breeding programs undertaken by folks who actually do turtle and tortoise rescue. Not an individual who happens to find (rescue) a tortoise crossing the street.

So, should Julie, of the Turtle Rescue of Long Island, have a breeding program? Should Kristina of Kyryah's Tortoise Network have a breeding program? Should Yvonne of Clovis Turtle & Tortoise Rescue, have a breeding program?

Its a whole 'nother can of worms to talk about whether or not you've adopted a tortoise and signed an agreement not to breed it. That's not a rescue, that's an adoption. And its up to YOU if you want to honor that agreement or not.


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## Candy (Oct 30, 2010)

I agree with Yvonne on this one.


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## Balboa (Oct 30, 2010)

LOL It could be I'm totally off here, wouldn't be the first time,

But, Yvonne, as originally worded, and would be understood by most you are correct.

However, as things unraveled and a bit of the background story that led to the question came to light, the real meaning changed a bit, and I'd say all facets discussed here became relevant.

if I'm seeing that wrong sorry, all 

All I can say is that I'm glad we have folks like all of you that posted looking out for the best interests and future of "Testudinidae Domesticus". ATC, Yvonne, Kristina, Maggie, (and everyone else who rescues or tries to rescue) you guys ROCK.


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## terryo (Oct 30, 2010)

I agree with Yvonne too. But if you are a rescue/breeder...a person who does both, is it OK for you to adopt from a rescue and then breed the adopted tortoise. That was the real issue.


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## Candy (Oct 30, 2010)

I think Terry that your friend has every right to give her tortoises to whoever she thinks will be best for them. This is her rescue and that's up to her to decide. I've heard you many times before talk about how many Sulcata's she gets in to her rescue. I think people who run rescues probably have a different view point (not all of the time) then others who do. I can honestly say that if I was constantly getting Sulcatas into a rescue that I ran then I probably wouldn't be giving them to people who would breed them. That's just me. No offense to the OP because throughout this thread It seems that he really cares about what he is doing and doesn't seem to me to be irresponsible by any means. That said there are so many out there who are and I think that's where the rescues point of view comes from. I definitely don't agree with irresponsible people breeding anything. Anyway it's not like there is a shortage of these big boys or girls out there to get from other places.


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## Terry Allan Hall (Oct 31, 2010)

My $.02 worth:

On a species like the sulcata (or most of the common large pythons/anacondas), I'd rather the rescuer NOT breed 'em, as so many get bought by well-meaning folks who haven't a realistic idea of what owning a 200 lb. tortoise (or a 15'+ snake) entails...which is why there are so many of both in rescues! 

OTOH, smaller examples of both animals (ball pythons, commom boas, the various European, N. American, S. American, Asian and African tortoises don't seem (to me) to be a problem, both because they rarely outgrow their homes and are nowhere nearly as common.

My own rescue efforts (pythons) is almost entirely Burmese, which are generally docile and look cute at 12-15", stay cute up to 6 or 8' (which is to say about a year - 18 months) and then all of a sudden have to go... 

Currently baby-sitting 17 extra Burms, 2 Anacondas, 2 Reticulateds (all four of of which I refer to as "Psycho-snakes". because they is not even slightly docile and each is from 12'-15', plenty big enough to be extremely unpleasent and somewhat dangerous)...and I'm always looking for a responsible recipient who has no desire to breed them, but they grow harder to find..


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## maguire5500 (Nov 5, 2010)

Been trying for a few days to post a reply to this thread but could not log in so signed up with a new user name. Would like to give my opinion. We (Turtle Rescue of Long Island) have a policy about Sulcata tortoises and Red ear sliders not being adopted out to breeders because of the never ending numbers coming into our rescue. We continually see them being sold for $20-$50, as one poster noted, where a much smaller more managable tortoise was being sold for $150, so which tortoise is little Johnny going to get? We're just a small rescue, yet we have just this year alone taken in over 50 Sulcata tortoises and placed 41 of them. We have four more that are supposed to be coming in and starting a waiting list already for spring. So one may ask why we don't like to adopt the Sulcata to breeders, that's why. Same goes with Red ear slider turtles. Those we hardly find homes for anymore. I think we were able to place 15 or 20 this year out of the hundreds of requests for placement. Someone mentioned that Sulcata's won't end up like feral cats. Well, I'm afraid they will in the right climate. Look at RES. There's not a lake or pond anywhere that does not have a healthy population of them because of people dumping them for the past 50 years or so.
We have no problem with anyone adopting any other turtle or tortoise from us and placing it in their breeding group. In fact I think more should be breeding those that are still being taken from the wild and imported as pets to stop the harvesting and depleting from their natural habitat and ultimately becoming endangered like so many. To set something else straight, we are a 501(c)3 non-profit but we do not get any funding from any entity. We hold our yearly fundraiser which we are running now in the way of a raffle to help raise funds to keep us going throughout the year. The majority of our costs are out of our own pockets. We do not charge an adoption fee or an applicaion fee as some do. We only ask the adopter to pay shipping charges when the turtle or tortoise cannot be picked up.
When I am asked to adopt to a breeder of Sulcata's there are no if ands or buts about it, our policy is clear. I'm sure there have been times that some have not been completely honest with us and have used our tortoises for breeding, so shame on them. But just so we're clear, just because one breeds their tortoises I don't believe them to be 'evil and greedy', I just don't believe more Sulcata tortoises should be being bred with so many out there needing homes. Just look on Craigslist, Petfinder, Kingsnake, etc. Then you have all those babies sold like they are disposable pets, and for so many they are. I am passionate about the work I do with these magnificent animals and I hate to see how so many are used and abused. They deserve so much more.
Terry, thank you so much for your kind words and for trying to help us find good homes for the tortoises. You're a very kind person and I appreciate your efforts.


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## terryo (Nov 5, 2010)

Thank you Julie. I am so glad you posted. I hope people will understand now.


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## Candy (Nov 5, 2010)

Very well put Julie.


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## ALDABRAMAN (Nov 7, 2010)

Yes, We are.


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## Madkins007 (Nov 8, 2010)

I think my take on this whole issue is mostly transparency and species. I am not a rescue and we really don't seem to have much of one here in Omaha, so this is largely theoretical on my part.

If I am looking to give away an animal, I would like to know the taker's policies and opinions, and that they will hold to them. Could they resell my donated animal for profit? In theory, of course they could, and if it helps them operate, I personally really don't have a problem with that, but I would like to know this up front- openly and honestly. 

Will they breed it? If it is a popular and appropriate species for the area (Deserts, Sulcata, and possibly Leopards would not be my recommendation for Omaha), or if it is a rarer species in trouble in the wild, then I don't see a problem here either- whether they sell or give away the offspring- as long as I know this up front- openly and honestly.

I WOULD have a problem with an operation that took animals in for free in the back, and sold them out the front while the donors think they are being taken care of for life, and other situations like that.


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