# heated blanket under tort enclosure



## moswen (Mar 22, 2010)

hey everyone! i hope this thread gets lots of feedback. i've had an idea. here in oklahoma our humidity SUCKS, esp in the wintertime. outside of my sulcata's room the humidity on my hardwood floors is 29% right now. before i got my little guys i positioned heat lamps and checked hot spots & cold spots, and adjusted those accordingly. also for three days and nights straight the temperature on the top of the substrate just testing the heated blanket with no lights, stayed between 68-71 degrees. i have two caliber 3 temperature/humidity guages that record the highs and lows of temp and humidity. i'm telling you this to let you know the blanket never over heated their enclosures.

our house gets turned down to 65 degrees at night, so it's too cold for my torts. i have been using two ceramic heat emitters that i leave in the middle of the tub so they can keep themselves the temperature they want to be. i decided to use ceramic heat emitters because everyone says "don't rely on undertank heat emitters" and i know this, and i don't. but i'm curious, with humidity levels being so low and soaking my coconut coir/cypress bedding substrate every day just to barely make 50% humidity on the top of the substrate during the day.........

i just had an idea. last night i turned off the ceramic heat emitters, pulled the tubs apart so that a little less than half of each tub was not sitting on the heat blanket, and i turned the heat blanket on low. this morning, both my hygrometers read 67% humidity and 71 degrees on top of the substrate that was over the blanket.

could this be a good way to increase my humidity at night, to better simulate their humid burrow, and help prevent pyramiding? 

i would also like to know, has anyone experienced or read of any negative effects from an "undertank heat emitter" (even though mine is actually a heated throw)? i am aware of the burning belly problem with the hot rocks, and that they "do better with heat from above to simulate their natural environment," and the "they burrow to get cooler" which is why half their tubs were not on the blanket, to allow them to find a cooler spot if they wanted it. but has heat from underneath actually caused any health problems?

please also note: i am not using this blanket as a primary source of heat. i used it last night to increase the humidity, by heating their substrate and the water in it, causing the water rise. i am still using heat lamps during the day! any thoughts on this subject would greatly be appreciated!


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## DonaTello's-Mom (Mar 22, 2010)

That's a loaded topic for sure. I'm sure a more experienced keeper will be here to answer your questions. I do recall reading somewhere about someone using heat mats, actually they recommended them. It was a web site, let me see if I can find it. I took the advice of darn, I can't remember who, and use a seedling warmer under my torts hide....I never should have answered this post!! I can't remember squat this morning!


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## Scooter (Mar 22, 2010)

I have seen the pig blankets (hard heating pads) used under outdoor sheds to help keep them warm on cold nights. Though I have never done this myself it seemed to work well for the ones I saw.


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## DonaTello's-Mom (Mar 22, 2010)

Ok I found it. Scroll down to the bottom of the page.

Sulcata Station's Blog....http://sulcata-station.blogspot.com/


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## chadk (Mar 22, 2010)

A few things... What is the temp below the surface? So if they dig down at night, what will the temps be? 
You have noticed that the water is evaporating pretty fast. So you'll need to really stay on top of providing moisture, or the substrate will dry out. Does the tort have an area to get away from the heat if desired?

As long as 65 is the low, that should be fine for a night drop. And I think you'll find that the substrate retains some of the heat from the day, so it really stays warm in the enclosure longer than you may think. Good deep moist substrate should provide the humidity needed right at the surface level. Put a good hide on top of that, and you have a good humid hide and should not have to worry too much about humidity in the room.


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## Yvonne G (Mar 22, 2010)

If I'm understanding you, what you are using is a human electric blanket? I really wouldn't trust something like that. If you've ever had one on your lap and put a magazine or book down on top of it you would see that it concentrates the heat in that spot under the book. So in my opinion, I would think that it would concentrate too much heat under the tubs.

I bought two seed tray heaters and that's what I use for night time heat for my hatchlings. It was made to sit under seed trays and has a built in safety that doesn't allow it to get any hotter than 85 degrees.


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## moswen (Mar 22, 2010)

lol thank you charlotte and jill. chad- i pulled the tubs half off the heat blanket so they do have half their enclosure to move to if the heated blanket part gets too hot for them. i'm not sure about the temperature under the substrate, i'm assuming it's warmer. also, about the hide. i've noticed some threads on here and some other places, with hatchlings that have "humid hides" and pyramiding, so i'm not sure that's the only thing you need... my torts hardly ever hang out in their hide, and with 30-50% humidity on them outside the hide most of the time i don't think that's going to be enough to stop pyramiding. moswen's really the only one who utilizes it, and i only see him in it sometimes. safina digs down in whichever corner suits her best and i've never seen her in the hide. i've only seen ayana in it once. i've also read some threads of some people claiming to have seen a tort near a coast kept in horrible conditions and fed dog food with no pyramiding. i'm starting to think i may need more than just a humid hide. but i did leave the half with the hide on the heated blanket!

yvonne, i'm not as concerned with the heat blanket getting too hot. i have a caliber III temp/humidity guage that records the highs and lows of the day and when i was testing the heat blanket before i got the torts, i left it on for 3 days straight and the heat stayed between 68 and 71, and now that i'm only going to have it on at night i'm confident it will not overheat, esp since i have pulled half the tub off the heated blanket.

thanks so much everyone for your replies! i have read up now on people using heat mats, so i feel confident! i really do hope this will help with pyramiding! my moswen came to me slightly pyramided so i'm hoping this will help him and also help prevent ayana and safina from starting!


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## Scooter (Mar 22, 2010)

Keep us informed how well it works for you.


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## Meg90 (Mar 25, 2010)

I think its a bad idea. 65F is a fine temp for babies. Its a natural drop and helps them to know their day and night cycles. I would also never use a human heating pad underneath the cage, it sounds like a recipe for something bad to happen. 

What are you doing to raise your humidity, and keep it up high for your babies? I don't think you need to heat the substrate to keep it more humid. Plus, if I baby digs down the the bottom of the bin (We are using the same ones, and they are not deep) they could easily burn themselves. 

Do you have this on all day? Or just turn it on, after the babies are already asleep for the night? I have never seen a tortoise of mine come back UP when the lights go off. They stay in their "burrows" no matter what. I am skeptical that your babies would move off of the heat pad at night, if they were already down sleeping as it went on.

You can slowly raise the temperature of water, with a live frog in it, until it is boiling and the frog will not move. If the increase in temperature is gradual enough, their bodies don't respond in the typical way. I am not saying that this is EXACTLY how it is with torts, but its the analogy that has kept me from doing something like this with my Greeks. 

Personally, I think you should skip the heat at night and let it drop. Its a natural thing, and I have never had a problem with allowing it with my tortoises. My youngest has been under my care since she was 6 weeks old. 

Have you seen any of my threads? I keep 1/3 of the cage with a substrate of moist eco earth, and I put a plexi glass panel over the top of that portion to keep humidity high. It stays between 65-90% humidity depending on if its watering day or not. It has worked like a charm for me. I've had smooth growth since the day I started doing it. In my most recent thread, there's a pic.


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## Scooter (Mar 25, 2010)

The plexi glass is a great idea Meg, I will have to see about trying that. Thanks


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## moswen (Mar 25, 2010)

i haven't had my babies burrow period, or use either of their hides--before or after i started using the blanket. sometimes they get behind a leaf in the big hide (usually moswen), but usually what they do is dig a couple of times (scrape the top layer of substrate basically) in a corner to bed down for the night. and i've been checking temps under the substrate doesn't get warmer than 73. and i ONLY turn the blanket on at night! 

maybe i should state that this is a self-regulating heated blanket and that it's brand new-- i used it for like a month before i put it under the baby's enclosure. that means that it temporarily shuts off when it gets too hot, and that it turns back on when it cools down. as i have stated, i used it for three days straight before i even got my sullies, never turning it off, and the temp never got past 71 degrees! i seriously doubt that it will get hot enough to cook torts lol!

i would not put down an un-safe un-tested blanket for my babies. i understand accidents can happen, but my little guys can get struck by lightning while they're outside in the summer time when they get older too. chances like this are very slim however, so we put the torts outside because it's better for them. i personally feel like the blanket is safe enough for them to use and i tested it before they got here...

and i don't know what else to do to raise humidity. i water their substrate daily. it's very moist; like more moist than potting soil when you open up a brand new bag. i keep several little containers of sulcata seed grass and weeds planted in there that i change out periodically. i have water for them to soak in, and i have a sponge in their hide that they never go in. and other than that, i have not heard of any suggestions to help keep humidity up, besides a humidifier, and i'm concerned about using a humidifier for one room. do they do damage to walls and woodwork in a 12X12 room?


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## Meg90 (Mar 25, 2010)

No, a small humidifier would not damage your walls. I think you should look at getting a piece of plexi and covering part of the cage with it. What substrate are you using? Moist eco? Maybe you need a bigger bin, and a deeper layer of substrate. They probably don't burrow in it, because it is too wet down under the top layer. With eco, water will pool on the bottom if there is too much added---I do this on purpose to mine, because its the cool side and I know she's not going to bed down there.

Sullies are burrowers. All three of my torts use their substrate to bed down into. The babies every night, only my adult Greek will sleep in a log hide. I use aspen for the majority of my enclosure. But then again, I don't have a tortoise species that is notorious to pyramiding.

I think you need to rework some of your care aspects, to raise the overall humidity. Do you have any sphagnum moss handy? That might really help. But I have never seen a baby tortoise NOT burrow. Mine go up and down several times a day. 

Here's a picture of what I do with all of my growing torts----2/3 aspen bedding, sunken divider, 1/3 moist eco with a piece of plexi overtop. I've had smooth growth and no problems with humidity since I started this. I wet the substrate down every three days with hot water. (The picture is from when Novalee had just arrived--at 6wks old and barely 2" SCL she's now 3 7/8" of smooth shelled goodness)


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