# Smallest Species List?



## Andre (Nov 28, 2016)

I would like to know as many tortoise species that stay 6" or smaller even for females. 

So far I have:

Kleinmann's "Egyptian"

T.H. Hermanni "Western Hermann's"

Pyxis arachnoides "Spider"

Kinixys natalensis - "Hinge-back"

& the five Homopus - "Padloper"


If something is listed, please provide specifics of size, subspecies, and availability.


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## JoesMum (Nov 28, 2016)

Is there any particular reason for this? 

Even the smaller species need lots of floor space by the time they're adult. Generally speaking a minimum of 4'x8' (1.5 x 2.2 metres) is needed per tortoise of the smaller species.


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## Andre (Nov 28, 2016)

I am aware of that but thank you for being concerned. I just personally have an interest in small size. I find it fascinating to watch such a little creature wonder about. Tortoises come in all different shapes, colors and patterns. There is seemingly something for anyone's interest when it comes to proper keeping of a specific tortoise species.


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## Speedy-1 (Nov 28, 2016)

Andre said:


> I am aware of that but thank you for being concerned. I just personally have an interest in small size. I find it fascinating to watch such a little creature wonder about. Tortoises come in all different shapes, colors and patterns. There is seemingly something for anyone's interest when it comes to proper keeping of a specific tortoise species.


 *Well said Andre , there is enough variety for everyone's interests ! *


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## JoesMum (Nov 28, 2016)

Andre said:


> I am aware of that but thank you for being concerned. I just personally have an interest in small size. I find it fascinating to watch such a little creature wonder about. Tortoises come in all different shapes, colors and patterns. There is seemingly something for anyone's interest when it comes to proper keeping of a specific tortoise species.


I'm cool with that


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## Grandpa Turtle 144 (Nov 28, 2016)

Andre said:


> I would like to know as many tortoise species that stay 6" or smaller even for females.
> 
> So far I have:
> 
> ...


Where do pancake torts fall on that list ?


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## Big Ol Tortoise (Nov 28, 2016)

what about box turtles?


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## tortadise (Nov 28, 2016)

Andre said:


> I would like to know as many tortoise species that stay 6" or smaller even for females.
> 
> So far I have:
> 
> ...



Depends on which locality of western Hermanns really.

All of your pssamobates stay very very small. Males rarely achieve sizes over 5" SCL and females a bit larger. This is only the 3 of 4 species however. Pssamobates geometricus obtains sizes larger than 6".

Also the homopus don't all stay that small. the Karoo padloper and greater padloper can get larger than 6" whereas the solis, speckled Cape, and parrot beaked stay quite small. 

A lot of species can be relatively uninformed into this question though, of the numerous localities of horsfieldi some can obtain very small sizes of 5-6" in both males and females. Some localities can obtain 10"+.

Same can be said for certain sub species of greaca in middle eastern localities. Jordan for instance has some very small specimens of testudo whereas turkey has some quite large individuals.


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## tortadise (Nov 28, 2016)

tortadise said:


> Depends on which locality of western Hermanns really.
> 
> All of your pssamobates stay very very small. Males rarely achieve sizes over 5" SCL and females a bit larger. This is only the 3 of 4 species however. Pssamobates geometricus obtains sizes larger than 6".
> 
> ...




Hope this helps. Are you looking for only tortoise specimens or turtles as well. Quite a few tiny species of aquatic and terrestrial turtles.


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## Andre (Nov 28, 2016)

Thank you for such a great response! Now I feel like we are finally getting somewhere. 

For the Western Hermanns, Im not sure which locality roughly produces the smallest torts but Apulia, Calabria, Majorca, Minorca, and southern Tuskany I believe are all 6" or smaller. I may have overlooked but I did not see where Chris specifically mentioned the differences between his two groups from Tuskany (East/Southern) on hermannihaven Southern Tuskany locality being smaller with higher contrast than the Eastern Tuskans. 

Please correct me for anything I say wrong at anytime. I enjoy constructive criticism if not said in a rude manner.

Thank you for mentioning the pssamobates! I was completely unaware of this species. 

Also thank you for clarifying the Homopus species.

You started to get into what I am more interested in towards the end. If it doesn't take too much work I think it would be worth mentioning all of the specific sub-species by their locality whom stay 6" or smaller. 

Also, this may need to be a separate post but are there any other species that are as organized as The Western Hermann's from Garden State Tortoise? It is already interesting to see the differences among subspecies of the Hermanns but to take it further and distinguish differences of specifically the T.H.H by comparing them to the same subspecies from different locations is absolutely fascinating.

I was specifically asking about tortoises but for the interest of others I think it would be great to also mention the tiny species of aquatic and terrestrial turtles you speak of.


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## Andre (Nov 28, 2016)

I also failed to mention the other "spider" subspecies earlier.

Pyxis arachnoides arachnoides
Pyxis arachnoides brygooi 
Pyxis arachnoides oblonga

and the flat-tailed tortoise 
(Pyxis planicauda).


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## tortadise (Nov 28, 2016)

Andre said:


> Thank you for such a great response! Now I feel like we are finally getting somewhere.
> 
> For the Western Hermanns, Im not sure which locality roughly produces the smallest torts but Apulia, Calabria, Majorca, Minorca, and southern Tuskany I believe are all 6" or smaller. I may have overlooked but I did not see where Chris specifically mentioned the differences between his two groups from Tuskany (East/Southern) on hermannihaven Southern Tuskany locality being smaller with higher contrast than the Eastern Tuskans.
> 
> ...


That's a great question on the western Herman. Chris would be best person to ask. He has been quite busy with his recent move to a new house. But perhaps he can respond in time which locality of westerns stay smaller than others. I do k ow the Sardinia locally get quite large (1200 grams perhaps on a female)


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## Big Ol Tortoise (Nov 28, 2016)

Box turtles aren't aquatic! (Well there are some species that are fully aquatic...)They need a big enough water dish for them to soak and go to the bathroom in though. My 3 toed box turtle is 6"


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## leigti (Nov 28, 2016)

Grandpa Turtle 144 said:


> Where do pancake torts fall on that list ?



I've had a female pancake tortoise and a female three toed box turtle and they were both adult and under 6 inches. Just barely


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## TerrapinStation (Nov 29, 2016)

Bu but but...... the guy at the pet store said my sulcata will only get as big as the tank I keep it in????????

AGGGGGHHHHHHHHH


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## JoesMum (Nov 29, 2016)

TerrapinStation said:


> Bu but but...... the guy at the pet store said my sulcata will only get as big as the tank I keep it in????????
> 
> AGGGGGHHHHHHHHH


And your tank measures 4' x2' - sounds about right. It might not get that big


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