# Semi-Underground Russian Box



## Tom (Aug 12, 2014)

I can only imagine the rolling eyes... "Tom is at it again..."

It gets very hot here in the summertime. Every day is near 100 and sometimes its over 110. In winter, most nights are in the 30s and occasionally we dip into the 20s. For fossorial species like sulcatas, Desert Tortoises, and in this case Russians, going underground offers an ideal escape from temperature extremes.

Sooooooo, I've been mentally designing this contraption for a long time and finally got it built and installed. Its not pretty, but the entire thing was built with recycled wood and scraps from other building projects.

Here is the hole I dug for it to drop into:







Here is the box itself. Its about 21" tall and there is welded wire closing off the bottom.









Here I have filled the inside with the native dirt and topped it off with the coir that used to be in their inside enclosure. The bottom of the door is about 8" from the bottom of the box where the wire is, so they have plenty of room to dig in if they wish, but they can't go too far because of the wire on the bottom. I've attached the lid and done the weather stripping by this point too.





Here is the door/tunnel from tortoise perspective before the rain cover went on and everything is buried.





After burial:





Here is the shade/rain cover that covers the tunnel entrance to keep the rain out. This is a critical part of the whole operation for obvious reasons. When I install these things I check the level-ness of it all and make sure rain run-off will run downhill and not back into the tunnel entrance.





Here is the underside of it:





Here I have some dirt on it now:






Here is a view showing how the underground shelter sits within the rest of the enclosure:


















And of course we have to show the torties using the new facilities:














Hope you enjoyed my little tour. Comments and questions welcome.


----------



## lynnedit (Aug 12, 2014)

I love the step by step! Looks perfect and obviously has benefited by your previous experience.

(Oh, and I only rolled one eye).


----------



## lismar79 (Aug 12, 2014)

Very cool, thanks for sharing!


----------



## wellington (Aug 12, 2014)

No eye rolling. Just a big smile. I have been wanting to build my Russian a underground hide, but can't get a handle on keeping rain out. Because I haven't been able to figure it out, I have not been able to leave him outside at night, as you know. 
So, I will be coping this idea, thanks
Now my question. Goes back to the temp/humidity pm I sent you last week. If I build one of these in the sunny part of Toto's enclosure, it would be cooler then the temp above ground. Do you happen to know what the temp in the box gets too at night, that's if you are having cooler nights? I figure, being underground, it would stay warmer at night then the above ground temp, which has been low to mid 60's. However, the humidity goes quite high at night too. I'm thinking though, it being underground, the humidity would not really fluctuate as much as above ground. 
Thoughts?


----------



## Subersibo (Aug 12, 2014)

That's so cool! Can't wait to build one like it.


----------



## littleginsu (Aug 12, 2014)

I let out an audible giggle at the overhead shot of the torts in the box!


----------



## shellfreak (Aug 12, 2014)

Fantastic idea. Great work Tom


----------



## christinaland128 (Aug 12, 2014)

How coOL!


----------



## Tom (Aug 12, 2014)

wellington said:


> No eye rolling. Just a big smile. I have been wanting to build my Russian a underground hide, but can't get a handle on keeping rain out. Because I haven't been able to figure it out, I have not been able to leave him outside at night, as you know.
> So, I will be coping this idea, thanks
> Now my question. Goes back to the temp/humidity pm I sent you last week. If I build one of these in the sunny part of Toto's enclosure, it would be cooler then the temp above ground. Do you happen to know what the temp in the box gets too at night, that's if you are having cooler nights? I figure, being underground, it would stay warmer at night then the above ground temp, which has been low to mid 60's. However, the humidity goes quite high at night too. I'm thinking though, it being underground, the humidity would not really fluctuate as much as above ground.
> Thoughts?



With the damp coir, humidity is hovering around 75%. If I didn't intentionally wet it, it would be as dry it is as outside down there, which is VERY dry here. I would think you could just leave yours dry.

The ambient above ground temp last night only dropped to 68. The recorded low inside the box was 75. Ambient highs are climbing to around 98 right now and the high in the box was only 81.

I don't have the vinyl flaps in place yet either. I want to let them get used to coming and going before I put those up. Once I do install the flaps, temps will fluctuate even less from day to night in the box.


----------



## Carol S (Aug 12, 2014)

Great job Tom. Those little Russians look so familiar LOL.


----------



## wellington (Aug 12, 2014)

That sounds great. I think this could work here. I will check temps before I would leave him over night, but your lows 
Isn't off much from what we are getting. Your day highs are of course higher then ours, we've been mostly mid 80's, except today, which didn't make it over 67. The humidity is more my concern. If I can keep it low in there, then it would work great. Thanks Tom.


----------



## tinkerbell1189 (Aug 12, 2014)

Wow that's amazing, really good idea


----------



## Tom (Aug 19, 2014)

I knew it would take a little time to get them all using the new shelter. On night one, I put them all in the box after dark and they stayed until morning. On night two, 4 out of 6 put themselves away. From night three until tonight, 5 out of 6 put themselves away. And tonight... drumroll please... ALL 6 put themselves away! Woo Hoo!

Life is SOOOOOOOO much easier when your tortoises put themselves away at night.

(You hear that all my leopards? You CAN put yourselves away, ya know.)


----------



## bouaboua (Aug 19, 2014)

I'm so glad that you are "at it again". This post and other thread regarding the insulated boxed give me so much idea that I can use for my torts this winter or any time at out door. 

Great thread and Thanks.


----------



## Tom (Aug 27, 2014)

They are all putting themselves away at night every night now. The new shelter must be to their liking.


----------



## tortadise (Aug 27, 2014)

Awesome. Now you need to install some wireless cameras in those boxes to watch them from afar.


----------



## Abdulla6169 (Aug 27, 2014)

Tom said:


> They are all putting themselves away at night every night now. The new shelter must be to their liking.


Do you think there's a good way to insulate the container? The temperatures here in summer easily reach more than 110 F...


----------



## Tom (Aug 27, 2014)

AbdullaAli said:


> Do you think there's a good way to insulate the container? The temperatures here in summer easily reach more than 110 F...



Putting it in the ground like that DOES insulate it. The lid also has 1.5" foil backed rigid foam insulation sandwiched between two layers of plywood. It sometimes gets 115 at my place too. Normal summer days are around 100. The inside of this box stays in the low to mid 80s on those days.


----------



## Amanda81 (Sep 9, 2014)

This underground box is interesting. I would really like to try this for the Sudans. If I buried everything but the lid, insulating it and weather striping the edges so the lid sealed good I'm sure it would be excellent for summer months but in the winter, would I need to add a heat to it? Their box is 2' tall so I would estimate they would only be maybe 1' - 1.5' underground by the time I added substrate to it.


----------



## Tom (Sep 12, 2014)

You wouldn't need to add so much substrate sulcatas don't "dig in" the way russians do. Sulcatas burrow. The buried box serves as "the burrow", so no need to provide them with digable substrate inside the "burrow".

You would definitely need heat in a TN winter. Not sure this would work at all for that application. I think its too cold there. You'll need a box with an insulated floor.


----------



## russian/sulcata/tortoise (Sep 12, 2014)

Amazing idea!


----------



## Amanda81 (Sep 12, 2014)

Tom said:


> You wouldn't need to add so much substrate sulcatas don't "dig in" the way russians do. Sulcatas burrow. The buried box serves as "the burrow", so no need to provide them with digable substrate inside the "burrow".
> 
> You would definitely need heat in a TN winter. Not sure this would work at all for that application. I think its too cold there. You'll need a box with an insulated floor.


That's what I was figuring. But I'm thinking they would love it for a summer house. I will stick with the heated shed I'm fixing them for winter and I can just close the box up then reopen it when weather warms back up in spring. I might make the quads and the leopards one too. I'm hoping to have the quads enclosure amped up by summer so that they can stay outside all summer too. Then I can just add another for the leopards. Then if that seems to go well I will do one for the Aldabra I'm hoping to get 1st of year. I am still researching them tho. Thanks for the info!


----------



## TigsMom (Sep 15, 2014)

TOM!!! You are Missing Something!!!! Right away, I looked for it carefully and it was no where in sight! You're missing a WATCH YOUR STEP, sign! LOL Awesome enclosure, just needs a sign. hahahah.


----------



## biochemnerd808 (Oct 4, 2014)

This looks great, and your babies are coming along very nicely!


----------



## Tom (Oct 30, 2014)

Carol S said:


> Great job Tom. Those little Russians look so familiar LOL.




Did I tell you those were yours? Or did you just know? Your group is the most consistent. They are all pretty close to the same size, while the other three groups show more variation. All 6 are thriving and doing very well. Doing even better since I added this box.

They are all back inside now getting prepped for their first hibernation. I'm feeding them up a bunch for a couple of weeks, then I'll keep it lit and warm with daily soaks for two weeks to clean them out, then begin cooling with lights on less and less each day. Then it will be lights out around December 1st.


----------



## MagicGus (Mar 18, 2016)

it turned out amazingly! tortoise heaven!


----------



## Yvonne G (Mar 18, 2016)

If I were to do that, the wood would only last one season. Wood in the ground rots/gets termites very quickly, even if painted or treated.


----------



## Oxalis (Mar 22, 2016)

Tom said:


> I can only imagine the rolling eyes... "Tom is at it again..."
> 
> It gets very hot here in the summertime. Every day is near 100 and sometimes its over 110. In winter, most nights are in the 30s and occasionally we dip into the 20s. For fossorial species like sulcatas, Desert Tortoises, and in this case Russians, going underground offers an ideal escape from temperature extremes.
> 
> ...


I love it. When can my Russian and I move in? XD


----------



## Boxturtle1 (Jul 8, 2016)

Tom-I I am new to the Forum and a new Russian keeper and really enjoyed your design and the pictures. I live in Zone 7, in Virginia where we have many temp variations. I think this design will allow for extending the typical full-time outside time which typically would run May 1st to October 1st.
One thought that may make it more weather proof and more rot resistant would be to use an old Cooler. Bury it like your box and use the cooler lid for checking the occupants. Cut an access hole in one end for your entrance and you could cut out or drill drain holes in the bottom. Could serve as a hibernation chamber possibly for some climates if someone were inclined to hibernate. Great idea and design you had I really like it.
Thanks! Matt


----------



## The-Great-Stash (Jan 3, 2017)

Tom said:


> They are all putting themselves away at night every night now. The new shelter must be to their liking.


I love your set up, this is just the thing I was asking about more or less!! What are the dimensions and did you use just regular scrap 2x4s? As far as weather proofing, do I just use a special outdoor paint both inside and out?


----------



## Tom (Jan 3, 2017)

Boxturtle1 said:


> Tom-I I am new to the Forum and a new Russian keeper and really enjoyed your design and the pictures. I live in Zone 7, in Virginia where we have many temp variations. I think this design will allow for extending the typical full-time outside time which typically would run May 1st to October 1st.
> One thought that may make it more weather proof and more rot resistant would be to use an old Cooler. Bury it like your box and use the cooler lid for checking the occupants. Cut an access hole in one end for your entrance and you could cut out or drill drain holes in the bottom. Could serve as a hibernation chamber possibly for some climates if someone were inclined to hibernate. Great idea and design you had I really like it.
> Thanks! Matt



I like your cooler idea! That would sure simplify a few things.

Still, I kind of like the idea of the bottom of the box being open to the earth. I would like to test the cooler idea side-by-side with an open bottom box like mine and see what temperature and humidity does.


----------



## Tom (Jan 3, 2017)

The-Great-Stash said:


> I love your set up, this is just the thing I was asking about more or less!! What are the dimensions and did you use just regular scrap 2x4s? As far as weather proofing, do I just use a special outdoor paint both inside and out?



For this box I used all sorts of scrap lumber that was sitting around. The main box was made from 2x12s, and the lid and tunnel portions were made with plywood, 2x4s and 2x2s.

I'd have to measure, but if I recall, this box was somewhere around 30 x 18".


----------



## The-Great-Stash (Jan 3, 2017)

That helps a lot, thanks! As I mentioned in a threat I recently posted today, my pair are indoors atm mainly cuz I planted some goodies for them in their enclosure about 2 months ago. That, and their old burrow was flooded.


----------



## The-Great-Stash (Apr 3, 2017)

Tom said:


> With the damp coir, humidity is hovering around 75%. If I didn't intentionally wet it, it would be as dry it is as outside down there, which is VERY dry here. I would think you could just leave yours dry.
> 
> The ambient above ground temp last night only dropped to 68. The recorded low inside the box was 75. Ambient highs are climbing to around 98 right now and the high in the box was only 81.
> 
> I don't have the vinyl flaps in place yet either. I want to let them get used to coming and going before I put those up. Once I do install the flaps, temps will fluctuate even less from day to night in the box.


Would the same work for box turtles? I am planning something like this for my new adult box turtles come this fall.

Although, I am debating whether or not I should completely cover the bottom with a more solid face instead of wire. The place that my animals lile to dig is where it floods no matter how many time I try to keep them from it. I figured that instead of fighting it, I will just make it there. Of course, I would have to totally weather proof the entire box as well as the tunnel entrance/exit. But what do you think, and what would you recommend?

(I keep my animals outside all year, never had a need to bring them indoors other than quarantining new animals for months)


----------



## satdiver (Apr 4, 2017)

Thank you Tom,
This is exactly what I have been looking for. I live in Las Vegas, NV and will be making something just like this for my future Russians.


----------



## Tom (Apr 4, 2017)

The-Great-Stash said:


> Would the same work for box turtles? I am planning something like this for my new adult box turtles come this fall.
> 
> Although, I am debating whether or not I should completely cover the bottom with a more solid face instead of wire. The place that my animals lile to dig is where it floods no matter how many time I try to keep them from it. I figured that instead of fighting it, I will just make it there. Of course, I would have to totally weather proof the entire box as well as the tunnel entrance/exit. But what do you think, and what would you recommend?
> 
> (I keep my animals outside all year, never had a need to bring them indoors other than quarantining new animals for months)



I think this style of enclosure would suit any species. I've never tried it for box turtles, but they need to be able to escape temperate weather extremes too.

I would not build it in an area that floods. I'd build it uphill somewhere and teach them to use it.


----------



## The-Great-Stash (Apr 4, 2017)

Tom said:


> I think this style of enclosure would suit any species. I've never tried it for box turtles, but they need to be able to escape temperate weather extremes too.
> 
> I would not build it in an area that floods. I'd build it uphill somewhere and teach them to use it.


Unfortunately, the whole place I have floods even with proper drainage. Subhurb on a hill and all.


----------



## ethan508 (Apr 10, 2017)

You have very good looking Russians (who are lucky to have you as a caretaker)? Where did you get them? 

The little white device in the photos is a what? (guessing it is a temperature alarm, if so what brand do you like?)


----------



## Tom (Apr 10, 2017)

ethan508 said:


> You have very good looking Russians (who are lucky to have you as a caretaker)? Where did you get them?
> 
> The little white device in the photos is a what? (guessing it is a temperature alarm, if so what brand do you like?)



I got them from @Carol S , @kanalomele , and a local breeder here.

The little white box is the wireless remote probe for the thermometer/hygrometer.


----------



## Pearly (Apr 13, 2018)

Tom said:


> I can only imagine the rolling eyes... "Tom is at it again..."
> 
> It gets very hot here in the summertime. Every day is near 100 and sometimes its over 110. In winter, most nights are in the 30s and occasionally we dip into the 20s. For fossorial species like sulcatas, Desert Tortoises, and in this case Russians, going underground offers an ideal escape from temperature extremes.
> 
> ...



Love this one too! Would definitely love to plagiarize this one if ever needed an underground build


----------



## Tom (Apr 13, 2018)

Pearly said:


> Love this one too! Would definitely love to plagiarize this one if ever needed an underground build


You can't plagiarize something that was given away freely. I posted it for the world to share. I hope to inspire others and have them also inspire me.


----------



## Tanyabobanya (Jul 25, 2018)

Co


Subersibo said:


> That's so cool! Can't wait to build one like it.


me build me one!


----------



## Maro2Bear (Jul 25, 2018)

@Tom - I’m guessing this underground system worked well! Given the OPPRESSIVE TEMPS in the desert southwest, I’m guessing more should implement. Any updates or tweaks?


----------



## Romeo Serback (Aug 11, 2018)

Tom said:


> I can only imagine the rolling eyes... "Tom is at it again..."
> 
> It gets very hot here in the summertime. Every day is near 100 and sometimes its over 110. In winter, most nights are in the 30s and occasionally we dip into the 20s. For fossorial species like sulcatas, Desert Tortoises, and in this case Russians, going underground offers an ideal escape from temperature extremes.
> 
> ...


 
Tom, what would be the dimensions for the opening for a fully grown leopard? If I build one in Florida, I want it to be a one shot deal and to accommodate the height of its carapace and for her to be comfortable in. Also, would you suggest a PVC piping to prevent it flooding inside the hide?


----------



## HarmonyC (Feb 28, 2021)

Hi! This is my first comment ever  I just picked up a Russian a couple days ago from the middle of the road and now diving into the ton of information about habitats and care. @Tom these photos sound awesome but they’re now gone. Did you happen to post them anywhere else?


----------



## Tom (Feb 28, 2021)

HarmonyC said:


> Hi! This is my first comment ever  I just picked up a Russian a couple days ago from the middle of the road and now diving into the ton of information about habitats and care. @Tom these photos sound awesome but they’re now gone. Did you happen to post them anywhere else?


No. They are gone, but here is the correct care info for you:





The Best Way To Raise Any Temperate Species Of Tortoise


I chose the title of this care sheet very carefully. Are there other ways to raise babies and care for adults? Yes. Yes there are, but those ways are not as good. What follows is the BEST way, according to 30 years of research and experimentation with hundreds of babies of many species. What is...




tortoiseforum.org


----------



## HarmonyC (Feb 28, 2021)

Tom said:


> No. They are gone, but here is the correct care info for you:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks so much!!! Lots to learn!


----------

