# Stacked enclosures



## smokinyoda (Nov 29, 2009)

OK, so the tortoise bug has bitten, and I can see myself keeping several specimens. Problem is floor space for winter quarters is at a minimum.

Has anyone ever built a multiple table unit, stacked verticaly, with each table sliding out for maint, kinda like opening a dresser drawer? Along the lines of a snake "rack" but more space in between each enclosure. I figure each table/rack will need its own uvb/heat lamp so spacing will be extreme, at least 24" between each table.

I have a 4' by 6' totally enclosed floor to ceiling enclosure I will be tearing down in an attempt to put 3 tortoise tables in the same amount of floor space, with 24"-30" seperating each one.

Has anyone tried this and if so could you post some pics?


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## Yvonne G (Nov 30, 2009)

Two of our members, Tim/Robin, have such an enclosure. They have shown good pictures of it here on the forum, but I can't find them right now. They have a web site, and you can see a bit of the enclosure in a small picture here:

http://sites.google.com/site/tortugainnsuites/Home


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## GBtortoises (Nov 30, 2009)

smokinyoda-check out "my enclosures" a few posts down the list. My set up-lots of pics. If that is something like you have in mind I can give the dimensions, including spacing and will gladly help you lay out dimensions for the space that you have to work with.


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## Yvonne G (Nov 30, 2009)

Sorry about that! I couldn't remember who else had shown those pictures. Here's the link:

http://tortoiseforum.org/thread-10028.html


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## stells (Nov 30, 2009)

I have two tiers in my tortoise shed and in my bedroom... they work out really well...

I know Ed has some REALLY nice stacks... If you contact him (username -EJ) he will kindly send you the plans i'm sure....


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## chairman (Nov 30, 2009)

Sounds like you are doing the exact opposite of what I just did! I went from two stacked tables to one 4 floor enclosure for my torts. However, I know the stacked setups work well for a lot of folks, so good luck with it. (Mine only didn't work because my wife didn't find them aesthetically pleasing...) 

I had each of mine mounted on some heavy duty bottom mounted drawer slides, and even with the ability to slide them out I kind of wished that I had designed the front so that the top 6" or so (leaving 6" solid on the bottom to hold in substrate) opened out on a hinge so that I could access the table more horizontally. I often had problems spilling water dishes when I removed them, which wouldn't have been bad if my torts hadn't pooped so often in them. (Keeping the humidity up with 'clean' water has always been my preference.)

Also, you might want to consider offsetting the tables a bit from each other so that if you get a species that requires a main heat/basking lamp you have more flexibility in terms of adjusting its height. i.e. the lowest table would be 6' x 4', the next would be 5.5 or 5' x 4' set to the far right, and the top would be 5.5 or 5' x 4' set to the far left.

I've never actually tried either of these suggestions, so I don't know if they'd actually be beneficial. They were just things that I wished I had done after I had already finished my tables.


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## -EJ (Nov 30, 2009)

These are mine... the shorter one has been use over 20 years.






They are 4 ft and 8 ft x foot. I found that 16 inches was the best height for most tortoises under 8 inches.

I've got an idea for glass enclosures similar in size to sweater boxes that would slide in and out. 

Something as large as the above is doable but would cost a fortune in materials and space.

(plans available on request)





smokinyoda said:


> OK, so the tortoise bug has bitten, and I can see myself keeping several specimens. Problem is floor space for winter quarters is at a minimum.
> 
> Has anyone ever built a multiple table unit, stacked verticaly, with each table sliding out for maint, kinda like opening a dresser drawer? Along the lines of a snake "rack" but more space in between each enclosure. I figure each table/rack will need its own uvb/heat lamp so spacing will be extreme, at least 24" between each table.
> 
> ...


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## Tim/Robin (Nov 30, 2009)

emysemys said:


> Two of our members, Tim/Robin, have such an enclosure. They have shown good pictures of it here on the forum, but I can't find them right now. They have a web site, and you can see a bit of the enclosure in a small picture here:
> 
> http://sites.google.com/site/tortugainnsuites/Home



Thanks for mentioning us Yvonne. Here are other pictures, see the first slideshow here http://tortugaplace.blogspot.com/. Our cages do stack but they are not homemade. In fact, we have one bank of cages that measure 12 feet long and stack over 6 ft high, there are 4 levels. They are Showcase cages, www.showcasecages.com. They work very well for us and we have had no issues with "ventilation". As many know, we have been and are very successful keeping them this way.


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## Stephanie Logan (Nov 30, 2009)

Wow. That is such an eye-pleasing set-up, Tim and Robin. The way you combined landscaping with Tortie heaven and even used those cement blocks as planters! Clever. Both utilitarian and attractive.

Your indoor showcases are also impressive. To have your tortoises right there at eye level and in attractive cages so you can watch them every time you are in the room is the dream of many tortoise nuts.

Are you the proprietors of Showcase cages, or just happy customers? And, if you don't mind my asking, what happened to Albus?


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## Tim/Robin (Nov 30, 2009)

Stephanie Logan said:


> Are you the proprietors of Showcase cages, or just happy customers? And, if you don't mind my asking, what happened to Albus?



Thanks for the kind words. We pride ourselves in making a sanctuary for our shelled friends. Each and every one has a name and is part of our family. Robin and I love to sit in our leather chairs in our tort room and watch our tortoises. Life can NEVER be stressful watching tortoises in your family room. 

We are not affiliated with Showcase cages at all. We are very happy with them and would recommend them to anyone. They have worked very well for us, both prividing a safe and suitable environment for each different type we have. 

As for Albus, he was our first Redfoot. We bought him from a Petstore and he was sick from day one. We learned a lot from him, although unfortunately, we could not save him. Every thing we have is because of one gorgeous Redfoot that caught our eyes and stole our hearts. He opened us to the whole world and passion of tortoise keeping.


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## Kadaan (Nov 30, 2009)

*DROOOOOOOOOL*


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## -EJ (Nov 30, 2009)

I know this is really going to read petty but do you know how this thread would read in the UK?

The enclosures are wonderful and I did build some similar to that but a little more rustic. I built them for snakes and lizards but I did keep tortoises in them.

It's just fascinating how these enclosures are getting such praise. It really accentuates the cultural differences... Danny... help me here... you know exactly what I'm amazed at.



Kadaan said:


>


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## Tim/Robin (Nov 30, 2009)

It did strike me as odd that someone else posted a picture of our enclosures. Help me out here guys, is it the lack of open top? Would this be a good thing or bad in the UK? I am not very knowledgeable in tortoise keeping in the UK. I do visit Shelled Warriors, but not a lot.


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## Meg90 (Nov 30, 2009)

I think your enclosures are beautiful. Its something I aspire to. You two have managed to create great micro climates for each species, which is evident through the natural behaviors like breeding, and coexisting without issue.

I did read that last EJ comment as petty. I hate it when people write cryptic messages only one or two other forum members will understand. If the post isn't for the general public, and is only for one or two people it should be a PM not a thread reply.

I'd break my college student bank trying to recreate what you guys have done! I've thought on more than one occasion how lucky your daughters are! And I personally am not a fan of the rustic stacking. Reaching in from the top of an enclosure that is over 4ft off the ground would be tedious. Front opening ones are the bees knees if you're stacking.

Also, how can you even see the torts in the top rack? In a traditional tort table, with opaque sides, you couldn't see them at all. So what is the point? I can see the stacks being utilized at breeders (similar to why snake breeders use racks) but why would a pet owner do this? Isn't the point of owning a tortoise to take joy from viewing it? I mean, they really don't do much else.


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## -EJ (Nov 30, 2009)

Do you participate in any of the forums in the UK? I suspect not.
That's why I asked for Danny's input. He understands the mindset over there and it's been really interesting how this thread went.

My post not cryptic at all.

Here's an experiment for you. Post that same photo to Shelled Warriors list. I'd like to see the response.

What is interesting is that those enclosures are what they call Vivs. aka vivariums. Tortoises should never be kept in vivs... I believe otherwise for the very reason you state.

...yea... i'm kinda hijacking your thread... I hope you don't mind.

I am jealous of that setup... it's nice. Sorry to use it to make a point.

I'll post of photo of the bank adjacent to the tortoise tables but like I said it is use for snakes and lizards.

When/if I get my glass 'tortoise tables' done... I'll post it.


Meg90 said:


> I think your enclosures are beautiful. Its something I aspire to. You two have managed to create great micro climates for each species, which is evident through the natural behaviors like breeding, and coexisting without issue.
> 
> I did read that last EJ comment as petty. I hate it when people write cryptic messages only one or two other forum members will understand. If the post isn't for the general public, and is only for one or two people it should be a PM not a thread reply.
> 
> I'd break my college student bank trying to recreate what you guys have done! I've thought on more than one occasion how lucky your daughters are! And I personally am not a fan of the rustic stacking. Reaching in from the top of an enclosure that is over 4ft off the ground would be tedious. Front opening ones are the bees knees if you're stacking.


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## Meg90 (Nov 30, 2009)

But if you do, and you notice something, why not explain yourself? Its kind of useless to say "hey you know what I mean" when none of us do.

And I honestly see nothing wrong with what Tim/Robin have created. Their animals have UVB, temp gradients, air flow? What's so bad about keeping a tort in a viv?


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## -EJ (Nov 30, 2009)

because that was directed at a specific person. To explain further would entail writing a book. Think about it. One other person saying the cultures are different and that vivariums are not looked upon as we do here in the states speaks volumes.

Log into some of the UK sites. Look how others keep tortoises. There are a few UK members here.

Did I say there was anything wrong with their set up?

To answer your last question... nothing.



Meg90 said:


> But if you do, and you notice something, why not explain yourself? Its kind of useless to say "hey you know what I mean" when none of us do.
> 
> And I honestly see nothing wrong with what Tim/Robin have created. Their animals have UVB, temp gradients, air flow? What's so bad about keeping a tort in a viv?


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## Yvonne G (Nov 30, 2009)

That's one of the reasons I quit Andy Highfield's YAHOOgroup. They wouldn't accept any other way to do things...it was their way or the highway. And one of the things they say is never, never keep a tortoise in a vivarium (read aquarium).

I love Tim/Robin's indoor set ups. But they wouldn't work for me because I don't believe in keeping tortoises indoors D) But I'm not such a hardnose that I don't see that side of tortoise-keeping. I've actually learned a lot since I've been on the Forum. In the old days I was strictly against indoor tortoises. Period. But I've come around after seeing how the indoor tortoises live and thrive under the correct care. I've even come so far as to buy a UVB bulb!!


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## Kadaan (Nov 30, 2009)

Tim/Robin said:


> It did strike me as odd that someone else posted a picture of our enclosures.



I clicked your link to http://tortugaplace.blogspot.com/ and saw that photo in the first slideshow, and was dreaming of having a tort room like that someday so figured I would share .


I know vivariums are frowned on by a lot of people, but those cages are made to be well ventilated, aren't they? In this photo from their site, there's a big gap with screen covering to allow ventilation across the top of the cage:







Instead of discussing this here, I'll make a post under Debatable Topics so people can get more... umm... "passionate" about it


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## Stephanie Logan (Dec 1, 2009)

Tim/Robin said:


> It did strike me as odd that someone else posted a picture of our enclosures. Help me out here guys, is it the lack of open top? Would this be a good thing or bad in the UK? I am not very knowledgeable in tortoise keeping in the UK. I do visit Shelled Warriors, but not a lot.



I'm going to imitate EJ and sidestep the meaningful debate.

That said, I do have a direct question for Tim and Robin.
Do your tortoises ever try to bump through the glass? I know Taco does this in the sunporch and I have read here that that can be a problem with keeping tortoises in glass-walled enclosures.


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## bettinge (Dec 1, 2009)

Forget the UK, I have read plenty of times right here on this forum that aquariums (vivs) are bad! I believe some of the arguments were:
1) That torts don't understand glass and keep walking into it.
2) Difficult to maintain temperature gradients.
3) Lack of air flow.
4) etc. etc. etc.....

These are not my views, just what I have read right here! I very much admire Tim and Robins tort room, and if its successful for them than thats all that matters.


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## Tim/Robin (Dec 1, 2009)

Stephanie Logan said:


> That said, I do have a direct question for Tim and Robin.
> Do your tortoises ever try to bump through the glass? I know Taco does this in the sunporch and I have read here that that can be a problem with keeping tortoises in glass-walled enclosures.



On a rare occasion certain ones do come to the glass and "bump" in to it. The Golden Greeks and Eastern Hermanns rush to the glass when they think food is coming. Our large male Redfoot watches everything that goes on in the room. He is very enquisitive and wants to know what we are doing. I would not say he bumps in to the glass unless he is turning around and just doesn't back up enough.  We have a couple of adult Marginata that do come to the glass and let us know it is time to get out. They get "supervised wander time" in the tort room. They seem to like the exercise. Both of their enclosures are on the bottom and they come and go as they please, when we are around of course. It is funny to see them visit each others house and eat what the other one hasn't. They bask when they want too. 

I guess in answer to your question, we have not had a problem with them pacing the glass. 

These enclosures, along with an automated sprinkling system, have allowed us to keep a nice level of humidity in the ones that need it. We live in a rather dry climate and we have been very successful keeping humidity up in these enclosures.



bettinge said:


> if its successful for them than thats all that matters.



What works for us, may not work for others. It certainly is working for us. We live in a climate where they have to spend many months indoors. As many know, they get out to large outdoor pens whenever possible.  A friend of mine once said, "it is hard to argue with success!!" (Thanks VIC). 



Meg90 said:


> Their animals have UVB, temp gradients, air flow? What's so bad about keeping a tort in a viv?



Interestingly enough, not all have UVB. In fact more don't than do. However, they ALL get calcium with vitamin D3. Vitamin D3 is what they get from sunlight or UVB and is necessary for the uptake of calcium.  Additionally, they ALL get outside whenever possible.


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## Stephanie Logan (Dec 1, 2009)

Well, you've certainly thought it all out and made provisions for just about every requirement of good tortoise care.

I don't suppose you'd care to share the price of these spiffy enclosures?

Sorry, I just went on the Showcases website and saw the prices. About $600 to get one the "right" size for Taco. I'll start saving my pennies...


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## Tim/Robin (Dec 1, 2009)

Stephanie Logan said:


> Well, you've certainly thought it all out and made provisions for just about every requirement of good tortoise care.
> 
> I don't suppose you'd care to share the price of these spiffy enclosures?
> 
> Sorry, I just went on the Showcases website and saw the prices. About $600 to get one the "right" size for Taco. I'll start saving my pennies...



That is a concern for many. The price can be prohibitive. I would hate to think of how much we have spent. But, it is a hobby and a passion, so it doesn't matter. We have been able to do it and it works for us. One could make something similar, but it would take too much time, and for us time is money, ha ha (made myself (Tim) laugh with that one).  One day I will have to add up how much time we spend tending toour tortoises in a given week. I am sure it would amaze even me!  Additionally, we had to have something "cat proof" and these are that indeed!!


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