# HELP!? Is he sick?



## lori12386 (Nov 10, 2012)

I think my little Gunther is sick. I received him and another on tuesday. They were overnighted to me from North Carolina. I have noticed the lasy couple of days he is not eating(that i can see). The other one that came with him eats great. Gunther is active and walking around. I actually had the two at the vets yesterday. Florida wildlife had me have them checked for external parasites. And they were both clean. I have tried feeding him everything. Escarole, kale, romain, zuchinni, weeds, mazuri... I have been soaking him longer then the other two daily. Temps are 97-80 in the enclosure. Humidity ranges from 55-80%. If you look at him his face looks different. Its whiter and his nose almost looks swollen and pink like he has a cold. Is there anything i can give him or do to help him? Or any ideas whats wrong and how to get him to eat? Thanks!


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## LuckysGirl007 (Nov 10, 2012)

It looks like something is wrong with his beak? I would take him to the vet. Maybe one of the other torts were nipping at him?


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## mainey34 (Nov 10, 2012)

They are sulcatas right? Your temps need to be 95-100 humidity at 80. Below my signature are threads that will help you out further


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## lori12386 (Nov 10, 2012)

I have been watching them all and there is no bullying going on. But i agree it is something along the line of the beak/neck/head area.




mainey34 said:


> They are sulcatas right? Your temps need to be 95-100 humidity at 80. Below my signature are threads that will help you out further



It is 98 on the warm side right now and 80 on the cool side. Im trying to get the humidity back up right now...


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## lori12386 (Nov 10, 2012)

So i just went to check on the torts. Gunther appears to being "trying" to eat. It was weird. Almost as if he couldnt swallow. He had a tiny piece of Kale in his mouth and was pawing at his mouth like somethig was wrong. I watched for a few mins then i picked him up and pulled out. It was like he couldnt get it down. Is he having problems swallowing? Im not sure if he got any down before i went in there or not.


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## LuckysGirl007 (Nov 10, 2012)

IMO maybe he can't actually bite off pieces because of his beak.


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## jeninak907 (Nov 10, 2012)

I was comparing your little tort to other little tort, He don't look so healthy. I would take him to a specialist fast. I hope all goes well!


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## lori12386 (Nov 10, 2012)

LuckysGirl007 said:


> IMO maybe he can't actually bite off pieces because of his beak.



Is there a way to help him?


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## diaboliqueturtle (Nov 10, 2012)

Could it be ear abscesses? That would make it very uncomfortable to move his jaw.


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## lori12386 (Nov 10, 2012)

*


diaboliqueturtle said:



Could it be ear abscesses? That would make it very uncomfortable to move his jaw.

Click to expand...


I dont know. Ho*w would i be able to tell and treat him?


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## LuckysGirl007 (Nov 10, 2012)

Baby food soak for now and cut food up VERY small until you can see a vet maybe.


His beak should grow back over time.


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## diaboliqueturtle (Nov 10, 2012)

lori12386 said:


> I dont know. How would i be able to tell and treat him?



I truly don't know :-( I really don't like the pink tint on his lower face. You said he's already seen a vet, right? You'd think he would've noticed... Try a different vet, perhaps. I hope help comes soon.


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## lori12386 (Nov 10, 2012)

LuckysGirl007 said:


> Baby food soak for now and cut food up VERY small until you can see a vet maybe.
> 
> 
> His beak should grow back over time.





I made some kale, escarole, mazuri and water mixture. Blended it up in the chopper. 
View attachment 32059



He smelled it, but didnt try it. ... [sigh]
Olly is going to town on it though.


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## LuckysGirl007 (Nov 10, 2012)

If the vet only checked him for shipping purposes they only look for external parasites. That is all that is required for shipping. They may make other recommendations and stuff but as long as there were no external parasite present they will sign the health certificate.


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## jeninak907 (Nov 10, 2012)

You need to get him to a tortoise specialist ASAP. Poor little guy. I hope he makes it...


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## lori12386 (Nov 11, 2012)

Im keeping a close eye on him for now. I dont think i have a good local reptile vet.. Not that specializes on torts.


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## LuckysGirl007 (Nov 11, 2012)

Where are you? There is a listing of rep vets on this forum. Listed by state and city.


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## lori12386 (Nov 11, 2012)

LuckysGirl007 said:


> Where are you? There is a listing of rep vets on this forum. Listed by state and city.



I live in deland which is near Daytona Beach Florida. I did a carrot baby food soak this afternoon. I also made him a babyfood/mazuri/kale/escarole mixture. And i put him in a seperate twenty gallon tank. What would a vet actually do for a sick tort?


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## LuckysGirl007 (Nov 11, 2012)

They can give vitamins, let you know what is going on with his beak, maybe check to see if he has worms that are taking all his nutrition. Honestly, I'm not really sure but it couldn't hurt. Florida should have some good vets there, but I don't know about your specific area.


Florida reptile vet list:


http://www.tortoiseforum.org/thread-29675.html#axzz2BuUFsexY


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## lori12386 (Nov 11, 2012)

LuckysGirl007 said:


> They can give vitamins, let you know what is going on with his beak, maybe check to see if he has worms that are taking all his nutrition. Honestly, I'm not really sure but it couldn't hurt. Florida should have some good vets there, but I don't know about your specific area.
> 
> 
> Florida reptile vet list:
> ...





Closest one is an hour away.




lori12386 said:


> LuckysGirl007 said:
> 
> 
> > They can give vitamins, let you know what is going on with his beak, maybe check to see if he has worms that are taking all his nutrition. Honestly, I'm not really sure but it couldn't hurt. Florida should have some good vets there, but I don't know about your specific area.
> ...




The lady i got him from said he was fine. Im wondering if something happened during shipping? I know the box was opened by florida wildlife and inspected. I have noticed one of his eyes is smaller then the other and he has a loose piece of skin under his neck...


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## LuckysGirl007 (Nov 11, 2012)

Hmmm. Did she take him to the vet before shipping or was it just taking him after shipping? If it was before I wonder if you could call the vet he saw before and ask about him. When I took 2 of the rescues I had to get a health certificate for shipping my vet gave me info to pass on to the new owners about each tort. I took a notebook with me so I could write it all down. Maybe the seller just didn't pass any information on to you. Honestly, I think even if a tort is underweight, MBD, RI...technically they can are fine to ship AS LONG AS THERE ARE NO EXTERNAL PARASITES. Internal parasites are another thing. With one of the rescues the vet recommended the new owner get blood work and x-rays but was fine to ship. My vet is also an hour away. It's actually not a bad drive for a reptile vet...I thought it was at first too.


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## lori12386 (Nov 11, 2012)

LuckysGirl007 said:


> Hmmm. Did she take him to the vet before shipping or was it just taking him after shipping? If it was before I wonder if you could call the vet he saw before and ask about him. When I took 2 of the rescues I had to get a health certificate for shipping my vet gave me info to pass on to the new owners about each tort. I took a notebook with me so I could write it all down. Maybe the seller just didn't pass any information on to you. Honestly, I think even if a tort is underweight, MBD, RI...technically they can are fine to ship AS LONG AS THERE ARE NO EXTERNAL PARASITES. Internal parasites are another thing. With one of the rescues the vet recommended the new owner get blood work and x-rays but was fine to ship. My vet is also an hour away. It's actually not a bad drive for a reptile vet...I thought it was at first too.



I dont think they went to the vet before being shipped. I can call the vet i took them to for the parasite check and see what they say. The tech alone was quite knowledgable on them. I dont have the funds are a day off till friday. So hopefully he will perk up!


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## lori12386 (Nov 12, 2012)

Does anyone else have any input? Im gonna talk to the vet that did the parasite check today and see what they can do for him. He has lost weight... He was 109g friday and was 103grams sunday..


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## shellysmom (Nov 12, 2012)

Hello, 

Your tort's face looks a little deformed. Not only the beak, but the eyes, the shape of the head. I don't know what would cause this; maybe he was born this way. BUT, if he is having trouble physically getting food into his body, he's in trouble. His jaw could be weak, something in his mouth or throat could be malformed, like the rest of his head, which makes it very difficult to swallow. I found 3 vets that supposedly see reptiles, and they are all about 30 minutes away from you. Hopefully you can call around and figure out which one might be best with your tort.. If none of them seem good, ask them to recommend a reptile vet; someone should know of one in area. The TRN has some funds for vet visits, please send me a PM if you want more info. I don't know if anyone has recommended baby food soaks in the meantime, but adding a jar of stage 1 carrots, sweet potatoes, or squash to some lukewarm water and putting the tort in to soak for 15-30 minutes might help perk him up. You can do this twice a day until he can see a vet. If he doesn't have trouble swallowing liquids, he should be able to take in some of the baby food and get some calories and nutrients in him. If you have any liquid vitamin/calcium spray or drops, you can add a little of that, too. Good luck. Here's the list:

Atlantic Animal Hospital
2841 S Nova Rd
South Daytona, FL 32119
(386) 675-1904

Pet Street Veterinary Care Center
299 West Granada Blvd. Ste.B
Ormond Beach, FL 32174
(386) 597-0811

Atlantic Animal Hospital
1640 Ocean Shore Blvd
Ormond Beach, FL 32176
(386) 675-1907


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## lori12386 (Nov 12, 2012)

Thanks for the info. I have sent you a message.




shellysmom said:


> Hello,
> 
> Your tort's face looks a little deformed. Not only the beak, but the eyes, the shape of the head. I don't know what would cause this; maybe he was born this way. BUT, if he is having trouble physically getting food into his body, he's in trouble. His jaw could be weak, something in his mouth or throat could be malformed, like the rest of his head, which makes it very difficult to swallow. I found 3 vets that supposedly see reptiles, and they are all about 30 minutes away from you. Hopefully you can call around and figure out which one might be best with your tort.. If none of them seem good, ask them to recommend a reptile vet; someone should know of one in area. The TRN has some funds for vet visits, please send me a PM if you want more info. I don't know if anyone has recommended baby food soaks in the meantime, but adding a jar of stage 1 carrots, sweet potatoes, or squash to some lukewarm water and putting the tort in to soak for 15-30 minutes might help perk him up. You can do this twice a day until he can see a vet. If he doesn't have trouble swallowing liquids, he should be able to take in some of the baby food and get some calories and nutrients in him. If you have any liquid vitamin/calcium spray or drops, you can add a little of that, too. Good luck. Here's the list:
> 
> ...


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## lori12386 (Nov 12, 2012)

I just weighed Gunther and he is back up tp 107g so he must be sneaking bites to eat or something? He was 109g Friday and 103g on Sunday. So the weight gain has to be good news!


His eye seems to be looking a little better today.
View attachment 32141

He seems to have a piece of skin hanging under his neck. Is there a way to safely remove that?


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## LuckysGirl007 (Nov 12, 2012)

Just try soaking him in warm water. It may help it loosen up and come off.


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## lori12386 (Nov 12, 2012)

Yeah. He has been getting extra long soaks with baby food.


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## shellysmom (Nov 12, 2012)

lori12386 said:


> I just weighed Gunther and he is back up tp 107g so he must be sneaking bites to eat or something? He was 109g Friday and 103g on Sunday. So the weight gain has to be good news!





The weight fluctuation of a few grams is not too significant. Sometimes after a good soak and drink of water they gain a few grams, and then when the defecate, they lose a few again. So, if it's going back and forth between 100 and 110, you're probably fine. Unless, of course, he's underweight to begin with. He should feel about as heavy as a potato of the same size. There's a fantastic equation to tell you your tort's body mass index. Let me see if I can find it.


FOUND IT! http://www.tortoiseforum.org/thread-38420.html#axzz2C3kWEQs6


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## lori12386 (Nov 12, 2012)

Ok. Well he is about 20grams less then Tank(who he came with). Im pretty sure they are the same age. They are the same size. Im horrible at math. But i will look at that link again tomorrow... When im not so tired.. Lol. Waking up at 4am isnt easy! 





shellysmom said:


> lori12386 said:
> 
> 
> > I just weighed Gunther and he is back up tp 107g so he must be sneaking bites to eat or something? He was 109g Friday and 103g on Sunday. So the weight gain has to be good news!
> ...


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## lori12386 (Nov 14, 2012)

Off to the vet! Im beginning to think maybe his jaw is broken? Possibly during shipping? Im no expert though. Here are some pics i just took. I noticed he rubs the left side a lot with his food. You can see he has it all irretated..its red. Either that or something is blocking his passageway.
View attachment 32203

View attachment 32204


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## LuckysGirl007 (Nov 14, 2012)

I can't see any pics...but good luck at the vet! Please keep us posted.


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## lori12386 (Nov 14, 2012)

LuckysGirl007 said:


> I can't see any pics...but good luck at the vet! Please keep us posted.



Well. They did a culture. We wont know until next week whats wrong. In the mean time he had eye and nose drops. Also some nutrient powder i am to mix with clear gatorade and force him twice a day.... This outta be fun!


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## LuckysGirl007 (Nov 14, 2012)

Oh boy! That will be an adventure.


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## lori12386 (Nov 15, 2012)

Well. Force feeding isnt as hard as i thought it would be. Just takes two ppl. Lol. The eye and nose drops seem to be helping a lot. You can actually see to very tiny nostrils now. I have a good feeling about him. But hes not out of the woods yet. Hopefully the culture willl be back on monday and we will know whats going on!


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## LuckysGirl007 (Nov 15, 2012)

Good to hear!


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## lori12386 (Nov 16, 2012)

Gunther seems to he doing a little better. Hos eye was open on its own when i went to check on him this morning. The eye wash and drops seem to be helping. He didnt like being force feed thos morning though... Lol. He knew what was coming. I took him outside for about an hour today and he went for a good long walk! Here are a couple pics.
View attachment 32328

View attachment 32329

View attachment 32330


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## Laura (Nov 16, 2012)

does the person you got him from have pictures to compare? 
I would also seperate him from the others...bullying is sometimes done in a way that we cant see.


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## lori12386 (Nov 16, 2012)

Laura said:


> does the person you got him from have pictures to compare?
> I would also seperate him from the others...bullying is sometimes done in a way that we cant see.



I dont think so.

He is seperated. But there is no bullying going on. The culture should be back monday to see what is going on.


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## samsmom (Nov 17, 2012)

glad to hear he is doing a little better! keep us posted.


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## lori12386 (Nov 17, 2012)

Gunther has been quite active today! I dont think he is eating yet though. I know he has walked through his bowl though! Lol. His face is still clean though.... Oh how i wish he had green lips! Force feeding continues! I have never seen a tort bring his head so far in his shell! He nose is really clearing up. You can finally see his tiny nostrils and hear him breath...


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## LuckysGirl007 (Nov 17, 2012)

Good news! What did the vet say about his beak?


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## lori12386 (Nov 18, 2012)

LuckysGirl007 said:


> Good news! What did the vet say about his beak?



She didnt say anything about it?


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## lori12386 (Nov 18, 2012)

Gunther is back up to 109grams today! Woohoo. And if im not mistaken he MAY have eaten some! We are still force feeding though. Two soaks a day and eye drops twice a day. He is either gonna love us or hate us... Oh the torture to save him!


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## kanalomele (Nov 18, 2012)

So glad to hear your lil one is gaining weight! That is a very good sign. Keep us posted on his progress


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## lori12386 (Nov 19, 2012)

kanalomele said:


> So glad to hear your lil one is gaining weight! That is a very good sign. Keep us posted on his progress



Thanks! He is a fighter!


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## lori12386 (Nov 19, 2012)

Gunther somehow managed to get up to 116grams today. If only it goes up and not back down. Could just be from the soak though. Still havent heard from the vet. I will call tomorrow if i dont hear back from them. He needs to start eating! He hates being force fed... Here are a couple pics right before his bedtime.
View attachment 32492

View attachment 32493

View attachment 32494


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## LuckysGirl007 (Nov 20, 2012)

Awe! He's not pink anymore!


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## lori12386 (Nov 20, 2012)

LuckysGirl007 said:


> Awe! He's not pink anymore!



Yeah. He is looking better. I will take some outside pics with no flash tomorrow. Hopefully it is nice out for them since im off! He still cant seem to open his eye on his own in the mornings. But once he has his eye drops he is good. I forgot to call the vet today. So i will call first thing in the morning.


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## diaboliqueturtle (Nov 20, 2012)

He DOES look better! So glad, I'm rooting for him :-D


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## lori12386 (Nov 20, 2012)

diaboliqueturtle said:


> He DOES look better! So glad, I'm rooting for him :-D



Thanks! We are fighting whatever it is together! 2-3 long soaks a day. Force feeding and eye drops! Im just hoping he will eat on his own soon! That side of his face still looks odd to me though... Almost like he is deformed. But he couldnt have always been or he wouldnt have survived this long! Who knows. Maybe tomorrow we will know something.


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## lori12386 (Nov 21, 2012)

Gunthers results are in... Not very good.. See this thread please! http://www.tortoiseforum.org/thread-59896.html
He has Pseudomonas...any advice?


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## lori12386 (Nov 21, 2012)

He pooped! He pooped! He pooped! I have never been so excited to see tortoise poop! First soak he has pooped in all week! And the first time he has pooped all week to my knowledge! Woohoo!


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## lori12386 (Nov 22, 2012)

Gunther opened his eye on his own this morning!!!! I went in there to get him for his soak and eye drops and he had it open. Yay! Usually he cant open it until the soak.


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## batchick (Nov 22, 2012)

Been lurking around on this thread to see how he's doing. Sounds like things are really looking up. Yay!


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## lori12386 (Nov 22, 2012)

batchick said:


> Been lurking around on this thread to see how he's doing. Sounds like things are really looking up. Yay!



Thanks. We are doing everything we can to help him. Hopefully i will get his antibiotics tomorrow.


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## lori12386 (Nov 23, 2012)

SUPER EXCITED! Just went to feed the torts. And Gunther was more then eager to eat! I watched him eat for five mins! Huge step for him! Sooo excited. He ate some cactus fruit and some shredded zuchinni.


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## diaboliqueturtle (Nov 23, 2012)

lori12386 said:


> SUPER EXCITED! Just went to feed the torts. And Gunther was more then eager to eat! I watched him eat for five mins! Huge step for him! Sooo excited. He ate some cactus fruit and some shredded zuchinni.



Woop woop! Fantastic! :-D


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## lori12386 (Nov 23, 2012)

diaboliqueturtle said:


> lori12386 said:
> 
> 
> > SUPER EXCITED! Just went to feed the torts. And Gunther was more then eager to eat! I watched him eat for five mins! Huge step for him! Sooo excited. He ate some cactus fruit and some shredded zuchinni.
> ...



OMG! It totally made my day!!!


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## lori12386 (Nov 27, 2012)

*RE: HELP!? Is he sick?- Gunther*

Gunther is doing really good. He has been chowing down and gaining his weight back. He is having trouble tear and eating leafy greens. But he has been going nuts on Opuntia fruits, shredded Zuchinni and mazuri! Still work on the greens, but as long as he eating i am happy. Vet was supposed to call me back today about his meds. So hopefully tomorrow! His eyes are looking great as well! No more lazy stuck shut eye!


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## l0velesly (Nov 27, 2012)

He definitely looks a lot better!


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## lori12386 (Nov 28, 2012)

lushcious said:


> He definitely looks a lot better!



Thanks!


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## lori12386 (Nov 30, 2012)

Gunther is still gaining weight and getting better everyday! He is up to 124grams!


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## LuckysGirl007 (Nov 30, 2012)

Yea, Gunther!!! I just LOVE him!!!


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## sibi (Nov 30, 2012)

I could be wrong, but I think I saw a little of the inside of his mouth, and it doesn't look normal. It looks like there could be something wrong with his mouth/tongue. If so, there is a virus that causes mouth rot. I'll do some more research on it and get back to you unless someone chimes in and give you the details before I get back to you. One of the best ways to check for that is to wait until he yawns and opens his mouth wide, usually the first thing in the morning as you're giving him is soak. If you don't have the time to wait until he yawns, then get him to a tort vet and tell him your concerns.


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## lori12386 (Dec 1, 2012)

sibi said:


> I could be wrong, but I think I saw a little of the inside of his mouth, and it doesn't look normal. It looks like there could be something wrong with his mouth/tongue. If so, there is a virus that causes mouth rot. I'll do some more research on it and get back to you unless someone chimes in and give you the details before I get back to you. One of the best ways to check for that is to wait until he yawns and opens his mouth wide, usually the first thing in the morning as you're giving him is soak. If you don't have the time to wait until he yawns, then get him to a tort vet and tell him your concerns.



The vet did a culture on him... He has pseudomonas. But i willl look up mouth rot.




LuckysGirl007 said:


> Yea, Gunther!!! I just LOVE him!!!



Thanks!


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## lori12386 (Dec 3, 2012)

Finally was able to speak with the vet. She does not want to put Gunther on meds yet. Only of he starts to get worse. She said to continue with what im doing. He is eating and doing what he should be doing. He has only been gaining weoght. I am to keep him seperated from Tank and Olly for another 3-6 months. Which means i need to get him out of his 20gal tank and into another! Since he will be there a while. I have a 55gal i can set up for him. Just gotta find somewhere to put it!


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## lori12386 (Dec 10, 2012)

Gunther is doing great! Notice his mouth is healing? He is eating and gaining weight everyday! Here are some pics from today.


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## ottosmom18 (Dec 10, 2012)

He is just soooo cute! I love the coloration.


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## lori12386 (Dec 11, 2012)

ottosmom18 said:


> He is just soooo cute! I love the coloration.



Thanks! He is so sweet. With his sickness and all the extra care he has needed i have really grown attached to him!


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## lori12386 (Dec 13, 2012)

Happy as can be!


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