# Baby Desert Tortoise Not Pooping



## BaywoodKids (Sep 1, 2012)

Hi all, so glad to have found you! My family and I were given a hatchling desert tortoise by my father-in-law a week ago today, and we have named him Little Liam. He is two weeks old now, having hatched on 8/18. Since we've brought him home, I've seen no evidence that Liam has pooped or peed! So I'm seeking your advice. Is this normal for a hatchling? I will gladly provide details regarding his food, water, enclosure, etc. if this posts. Wrote it all out before and it didn't show up (I'm using the iPhone app.)


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## Yvonne G (Sep 1, 2012)

Welcome, BaywoodsKids!!

Well, I'm guessing you are not using some sort of substrate for your baby, either that, or its the wrong substrate. Little tortoises poop so small that you wouldn't be able to see it in your substrate. Do you soak him every day? They usually will poop in the soak. Same goes for the pee. You wouldn't be able to see pee in substrate.

Just remember that new members have to post 5 times before their posts show up automatically. The first five posts have to be approved by a moderator and sometimes a moderator isn't online when you're posting. So give us your info again, and we'll take a look at how you care for your little baby.


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## chris_m90731 (Sep 1, 2012)

Definitely a soak is called for.


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## ascott (Sep 2, 2012)

Welcome to the Forum  and we LOVE PICS  and do tell us about your torts enclosure .....


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## thenaturalist56 (Sep 2, 2012)

I read on an informative sight about tortoise care that many tortoises won't pee unless they can replace the water in their body. My redfoot tortoise predictably pees while or directly after drinking water or soaking. Does your tortoise have readily available access to a shallow water dish where he can climb in to soak or get a drink?


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## BaywoodKids (Sep 2, 2012)

Thanks for your replies guys! Makes sense about the first 5 posts being screened , now I get it! I will try to provide some pics of our Little Liam in the protective hands of my 6-year-old. Will also provide some details about Liam's care.

Food: I have been offering him a variety of foods on a rotating basis twice a day, including: fresh wheat grass, moistened ZooMed Grassland Tortoise Food, dandelion petals, chopped hibiscus petals, Orchard Botanical Hay mixed with a little canned pumpkin, and chopped romaine. What I've observed him eating includes: the fresh wheat grass, dandelion petals, chopped hibiscus petals, and romaine. Prior to adoption he was fed romaine and moistened Zilla Land Turtle & Tortoise Food. Don't think he ate much of any of it because he was still absorbing his yolk sac at this time.

Water: he has access to a shallow water dish at all times, which I refresh twice a day. I have observed him having a long, glorious drink once last week, and have found him soaking on his own three times so far. After reading some of the threads on here I attempted our first forced soak yesterday in luke-warm water, but after about 5 minutes he started acting distressed and I took him out. Will give it another try this afternoon.

Enclosure: he was given to us in a 10" x 20" glass tank, 13" deep. Strange green substrate resembling a giant brillo pad. (They had sand in there at first, then changed it out for the monster brillo.) No hide at first, but we have given him one of those silly looking hollow half-logs, which he doesn't care for. Hide suggestions are welcome!! The lights we were given are in a small ZooMed dual hood and included a Sun Glo 120v and the dreaded ReptiGlo 10 coil. Since learning of the dangers associated with this bulb I stopped using it (as of yesterday) and have replaced it today with a ReptiSun 10. As of Tuesday I started using a black heat bulb, 75watt, at night to keep it warm in there for him. The lights are kept above the screen lid, so at about 12"-13".

He is happiest outside of course, and we've had him out in the sun in a temporary box about 2'x4" most of the day on Wednesday and all day yesterday. As I post, my daughter and husband are in the garage finishing a terrific homemade outdoor tortoise table that is 4'x8'. Got a great tip today when buying the new bulb about creating a heated hide in his new home which would allow him to be comfortable even in our typically foggy, 60 degree weather here in the central coast of California.

So that's it so far, in a nut shell! Any and all suggestions and advice are MOST welcome a we are first-time tort owners learning as we go, and wishing to do the best we can to provide a healthy and nurturing home for our little baby. I will try to post some pics, hope this works! Any guesses about the transparent filmy stuff flaking off of his shell??


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## BaywoodKids (Sep 3, 2012)

Here's another attempt at posting the pics...


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## Yvonne G (Sep 3, 2012)

Quite a few of us use either photobucker.com or tinypic.com for our pictures. Works much better, and easier, than the forum's photo part.


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## Tom (Sep 3, 2012)

A few notes:
1. For foods, look into the leaves from the dandelion and hibiscus, as well as a whole host of other good weeds. Personally, I would skip the hay and pumpkin. Also, there are better leafy greens from the store than romaine. Look for endive, escarole, cilantro, collard greens, mustard greens, bok choy, etc... Spring mix from Costco makes it pretty easy. I also like mulberry leaves, cactus and Mazuri.

2.You need a much bigger enclosure, but I think you already know that. Better substrate and a nice warm humid hide would be great indoors too.

Your outdoor pen sounds great. Can't wait to see it.


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## BaywoodKids (Sep 3, 2012)

Thank you for the photo tips! I will try from my laptop when I can - can't quite seem to get it right using the iPhone app. And thank you also for the feeding tips Tom!! Silly me, I meant to write that Liam's temporary outside box is 2'x4', not 2'x4". Regardless, the tort table will be far superior when it is finished. We're not far off now! I will add a work-in-progress photo if I am able to. 

Any substrate suggestions? That coconut business is sure pricey in the stores. We were thinking perhaps organic potting soul mixed with sterile play sand? Would that be appropriate?

Also, this is an odd request I know, but maybe part of the "missing poop" problem could be the fact that I have no clue what tort poop looks like. Could anyone describe it or post a photo? Am I a weirdo for asking this??


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## Yvonne G (Sep 3, 2012)

In a tortoise that small, it might appear to be mouse droppings.


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## ascott (Sep 4, 2012)

I would avoid using sand as a substrate, coco coir is a bit pricey but good and peat moss is great;

http://www.homedepot.com/buy/premier-30-cu-ft-peat-moss-70976040.html

You can get a gigantanormous bag/package of this at Lowes or Home Depot and it is organic and it is about 10.00 dollars for AAAALOOOOTTT of substrate material....

Sand is a material that moves differently when in the gut of a reptile, it begins to settle in their digestive track and then can begin to back up onto itself and before long it can create an impaction....which is not a good situation....especially for a hatchling who is not as precise of an eater as an adult.....just my opinion


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## Tom (Sep 4, 2012)

Another factor here is that babies really don't poop for a while. My sulcatas start eating in their brooder boxes when the still have a big yolk sac. They are on white paper towels and get soaked every day. I don't see poop out of them for at least two weeks. A baby CDT that probably didn't start eating as early as mine would take even longer to produce its first BM.


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## BaywoodKids (Sep 4, 2012)

Great tip on the peat moss, thanks! Hopefully the hubby kept the receipt for the play sand/potting soil so we can return it and get the peat moss instead. Sounds safer and more affordable! Sorry about mixing in habitat questions in this Health thread - I will post a pic of our tort table-in-progress over in the Enclosures area. Still learning my way around here! 

And Tom! I wondered about this! I had thought perhaps it would take a baby some time to make its first poop, after starting out with nothing in its stomach. Then, when I learned about the possibility of impaction, and the fact that my father-in-law had kept Liam on sand at first, I feared the worst. I will keep my fingers crossed and keep an eye out for a poop in his soak. I'm happy to report that, after making baby steps, Liam seemed to like his soak last night much better, and was happy to stay in there for a full 15 minutes.

If a baby becomes impacted, are there some tell-tale symptoms? He is still eating small amounts, though he seems rather picky. Turned up his nose at the collard greens I offered him this morning. I'm going to do a bit of foraging for him after work today, and hope to bring home some yummy dandelions (flowers and greens this time!) and maybe some little white clover from the lawn outside of work.

Think I've finally figured out the picture thing! Here is our Little Liam, in all his newly-hatched glory.  Any guesses about the transparent filmy stuff flaking off of his shell? It's similar in appearance to tried egg white, or snail slime. Slightly iridescent, and tissue-thin.


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## Tom (Sep 4, 2012)

Does he still have an egg tooth? Can we see a plastron pic? I want to see what the umbilical scar looks like. The flaky stuff could very well be albumin from the egg if he's really that young.


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## BaywoodKids (Sep 5, 2012)

Not sure about the egg tooth... I don't know what one looks like. He has a few bumps below his nostrils and above his mouth, does that sound right? I'll try to post a pic of his face, and one of his plastron. Sorry the pictures aren't that great, but he's a little camera shy, especially when it comes to showing his tummy.


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## Laura (Sep 5, 2012)

use the play sand and soil to plant some cactus in! 
that is one young tortoise.....


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## BaywoodKids (Sep 8, 2012)

I believe I've found two poops now, one yesterday and one today! Never thought I'd be so excited over tortoise poop.


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## Momof4 (Sep 8, 2012)

Welcome to the club!! We all love tortoise poop! He is adorable!


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## ascott (Sep 9, 2012)

> Never thought I'd be so excited over tortoise poop.



LOL....it only gets weirder the longer you are around them.....LOL


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