# Redfoot refuses to stay in enclosure



## RVtort (Oct 6, 2018)

I have a 9year old red foot tortoise who will spend hours trying to climb out of her enclosure. As soon as I let her out she stomps through my apartment and under my bed. She will make her happy groaking sounds under there all day or until I put her back. (One time as an experiment- I left her two days to see how it would take for her to back out- she came out from under the bed, but fell asleep in another bedroom corner- without making it back to her enclosure).

I work from home and so I can keep an eye on her. However, I doubt she is getting the right humidity or even any basking time. 

Every morning, I put her in the shower (she loves this) and she soaks probably for an hour or more while I work (tub filled- the shower is not running constantly). 

I got her when she was about two and she had some bad pyramiding. I am unsure if it has increased as she has grown ( if it has, it is minimal). She did go to the vet at that time. 

What can I do to make her stay in the enclosure? What is the appeal about under the bed(it is definitely her spot). She shares this “spot” with a small dog who completely ignores her.. but still- I would rather her stay in the enclosure. 

The enclosure is a black cattle watering trough - 3x5ft. Two flower pot hides on either end of enclosure. One water bowl big enough to easily fit her. Coconut husks and moss substrate. 

This behaviour started in June and has increased to the point where she won’t spend an hour in her enclosure without demanding out- climbing the edges and slamming back down.


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## Tom (Oct 6, 2018)

First, just leave her in there. Its your choice, not hers. Next, are you sure its a female? Post pics of the tail and anal scutes for verification. Third step: Let's have a look at the enclosure to see if maybe something is off. Post some pics? RFs don't tend to like bright lighting and basking lamps. What type of UV bulb are you using? What type of basking lamp? Next up: Shelter? What sort of hides are in the enclosure? Finally, 3x5 is WAAYYYYYY too small for a 9 year old RF. Tortoises need a lot of space to roam around. If she is small and a slow grower, she'd be cramped in a 4x8 enclosure. If she's normal sized, she needs a whole heated room up there in the frozen north.


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## Toddrickfl1 (Oct 6, 2018)

I agree with @Tom 3 x 5 is way too small for an adult Redfoot. That's probably why your Tortoise isn't happy in there.


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## RVtort (Oct 6, 2018)

She has two flower pot hides. 

Does it matter if the tortoise is a female or male? She’ll is 13 inches top to bottom. 

I just tried to send photos and nothing will upload. 

The light is an overhead reptisun 5.0 120v

The heat lamp is a 100w exo. 
What would be a realistic size of enclosure. We are looking at building from scratch. 


Thank you for the help.


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## RVtort (Oct 6, 2018)

Light


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## RVtort (Oct 6, 2018)

Hides and water bowl


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## Tom (Oct 6, 2018)

RVtort said:


> Light


Ahh.... the plot thickens!

Those cfl bulbs sometimes burn tortoise eyes. They are not effective UV sources either, and so should never be used.

No red bulbs. No one wants to live in a red world. Tortoises have better color vision than we do. They don't like everything to be all red all the time.

I asked about the sex because males tend to want to wander more, and the grunting noises under the bed sound more like something a male would do.

I will leave the specifics on RF care to people who have more experience with that species than me, but these generalities we've discussed are a good starting point for you. At least you now know of three potential problems that are easy to fix.


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## Toddrickfl1 (Oct 6, 2018)

The red bulbs are bad they really throw Torts off from what I've read also the coil UVB bulbs like the one your using have been known to cause problems with Torts eyes I've experienced it personally. Glass or plexiglass filters out UVB so the way you've got your UVB light sitting on it like that it's basically not serving any purpose unless there's a hole cut in the glass I can't tell. I would ditch the red bulb for a ceramic heat emitter and ditch the coil bulb for a tube uvb


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## RVtort (Oct 6, 2018)

Tom said:


> Ahh.... the plot thickens!
> 
> Those cfl bulbs sometimes burn tortoise eyes. They are not effective UV sources either, and so should never be used.
> 
> ...


 

Okay great! 
This is very helpful.


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## RVtort (Oct 6, 2018)

Toddrickfl1 said:


> The red bulbs are bad they really throw Torts off from what I've read also the coil UVB bulbs like the one your using have been known to cause problems with Torts eyes I've experienced it personally. Glass or plexiglass filters out UVB so the way you've got your UVB light sitting on it like that it's basically not serving any purpose unless there's a hole cut in the glass I can't tell. I would ditch the red bulb for a ceramic heat emitter and ditch the coil bulb for a tube uvb



The light and the glass is a new thing because the tortoise kept knocking everything down. 

I was under the impression that tortoises can’t see red light- I have no experience with ceramic heaters. Will get on that research train. 

Would it sit in one corner of the enclosure? If the enclosure isn’t glass wouldn’t it melt or burn it? If we are building an enclosure it will most likely be made of wood (cedar).

Do you recommend a lighting bulb type? What is too bright for a red foot when looking into tube lighting?


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## RVtort (Oct 6, 2018)

RVtort said:


> The light and the glass is a new thing because the tortoise kept knocking everything down.
> 
> I was under the impression that tortoises can’t see red light- I have no experience with ceramic heaters. Will get on that research train.
> 
> ...




Ignore ceramic heat emitter question. Figured it out. 

Also thank you, poor tortoise has been living in a red world for awhile. I think this will really help.


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## Minority2 (Oct 6, 2018)

RVtort said:


> The light and the glass is a new thing because the tortoise kept knocking everything down.
> 
> I was under the impression that tortoises can’t see red light- I have no experience with ceramic heaters. Will get on that research train.
> 
> ...



Quite the opposite, tortoises are particularly fond of the colors red and yellow. 

A good cost effective setup is 2x linear florescent bulbs; (1x UVB, 1x 6500k regular florescent bulb) and a ceramic heat emitter/reptile heating panel. Run the UV(B) on for 4 hours during peak hours daily cyles and the other florescent bulb on for 12-14 hour daily cycles. Keep the ceramic heat running 24/7 paired with a thermostat. Higher upfront cost but much lower replacement costs. The savings will be very apparent in a couple of years.

If you're unable to permanently house your tortoise outside I believe the lowest you should go is 8 x 4 ft. It would be better if you're able to give them an entire bedroom. I generally recommend adult 13+ inch Red Foot tortoises to have at least a 20 x 20 ft or 30 x 30 ft enclosure if owners are able to provide it.


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## Tom (Oct 6, 2018)

I just wanted to add that cedar emits toxic fumes and should not be used for a tortoise enclosure.


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## William Lee Kohler (Oct 11, 2018)

"Quite the opposite, tortoises are particularly fond of the colors red and yellow."

I was given to believe that the red "pigment" of food/objects under white light is completely different from the red "spectrum" of a light in the eyes of tortoises or reptiles in general. Used the red lights for heat for years before getting CHEs and they at least acted like it was night under them once all the lights were out.


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## Minority2 (Oct 11, 2018)

William Lee Kohler said:


> "Quite the opposite, tortoises are particularly fond of the colors red and yellow."
> 
> I was given to believe that the red "pigment" of food/objects under white light is completely different from the red "spectrum" of a light in the eyes of tortoises or reptiles in general. Used the red lights for heat for years before getting CHEs and they at least acted like it was night under them once all the lights were out.



I can't say for certain but from the numerous publications I've read on tortoises and turtles; many of these results seem to point out that food typology may be more important than the difference in pigment shading. They may be able to recognize the difference in color between the reds but if some material is shaped like a food they know and like, chances are they'll go after it regardless of how difference the spectrum level is between them.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29031945
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24911428
http://savetheseaturtle.org/Sea-Turtles-Have-Color-Vision.html
https://www.cam.ac.uk/research/news...uggests-dinosaurs-had-bird-like-colour-vision


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## William Lee Kohler (Oct 12, 2018)

Ya missed my point. Pigment is something coloring objects(as opposed to something shining on it). Light spectrum colors are parts of the electromagnetic(radiational)spectrum. Who knows why they like certain foods except sometimes smell(protein like cat food and carrion)sometimes color. As for "shape" cut up red strawberries and tomatoes look a lot alike but my tortoises like tomatoes and won't touch strawberries, like banana(sometimes)but nothing else yellow. Who knows why.


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## Cathie G (Oct 14, 2018)

Tom said:


> I just wanted to add that cedar emits toxic fumes and should not be used for a tortoise enclosure.


You are always right Tom. Cedar is used for repelling moths in a closet. I always love to see and read your opinion. Pine or white board is cheaper and with a pleasant odor.


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## Cathie G (Oct 14, 2018)

RVtort said:


> I have a 9year old red foot tortoise who will spend hours trying to climb out of her enclosure. As soon as I let her out she stomps through my apartment and under my bed. She will make her happy groaking sounds under there all day or until I put her back. (One time as an experiment- I left her two days to see how it would take for her to back out- she came out from under the bed, but fell asleep in another bedroom corner- without making it back to her enclosure).
> 
> I work from home and so I can keep an eye on her. However, I doubt she is getting the right humidity or even any basking time.
> 
> ...


I think you've spoiled the darling. And I'm not putting you down for that at all. He she has a pet dog. A giant hide and a whole room to play in. It's fun if you don't have carpet. Fix up your room and be prepared to sleep on the couch. Believe me I'm not being a smart alec. I've done it and enjoyed every moment.


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## Cathie G (Oct 15, 2018)

With all this color conversation going on I have to say...my little Horsefield will eat something that is blue even if it is yarn with something shiny. He sniffs every blade of grass or other weeds before he eats. But if he sees blue he chomps without smelling first. I guess it depends on what they like. That's a tortoise for you. They're an in duh vidual. Don't you just love em!


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## TammyJ (Oct 17, 2018)

Cathie G said:


> You are always right Tom. Cedar is used for repelling moths in a closet. I always love to see and read your opinion. Pine or white board is cheaper and with a pleasant odor.


Lol!!! Tom is not the only who is always right...about cedar anyway! If you think cedar is toxic then you are always right. Me too. And pine is not all that great either. But not as bad as cedar.


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## Cathie G (Oct 17, 2018)

TammyJ said:


> Lol!!! Tom is not the only who is always right...about cedar anyway! If you think cedar is toxic then you are always right. Me too. And pine is not all that great either. But not as bad as cedar.


Maybe my escape artist won't scoot stuff over and use it for monkey bars. Lol the odor...and he's just a little guy.


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## Cathie G (Oct 17, 2018)

TammyJ said:


> Lol!!! Tom is not the only who is always right...about cedar anyway! If you think cedar is toxic then you are always right. Me too. And pine is not all that great either. But not as bad as cedar.


Sorry I just didn't see a post from you. I didn't post because...lol Tom sticks his neck out like a tortoise...I try to keep mine well hidden cause I'm a youngin.


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