# Difference between G.Agassizii and G.Morafkai?



## armandoarturo (Oct 30, 2014)

Hello everyone..
I have a big question here..
what would be the difference between this species... G.Agassizii and G.Morafkai?
I know that Agassizii are from the north side of the colorado River and Morafkai are from the south of the river, down to Mexico.
But... what would be the visual differences?

Like, for example.. Berlandieri, doesnt have the nucal scute, and are also smaller in size, and that kind of stuf...

Thanks a lot for the help


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## tortadise (Oct 30, 2014)

I'm not too certain. I think they resemble identical features physically. Genetic testing is the really the only way of knowing. Angela or Yvonne may know. @ascott @Yvonne G 

I must say though. We have had quite a few Texas tortoises here with nuchal scutes.


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## Yvonne G (Oct 30, 2014)

You have it backwards, Armando - agassizii is the southern tortoise and morflaki is north and east of the river. I haven't been able to tell any difference between them, but then, I've never actually seen them side-by-side. I'm not so sure there is an actual physical difference. It's more on the basis of DNA, geographic, and behavioral differences. But I'd truly love to see them side by side to see for myself.


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## Ciri (Oct 30, 2014)

If you're interested you might want to check out this lengthy article: "The dazed and confused identity of Agassiz’s land tortoise, _Gopherus agassizii_ (Testudines, Testudinidae) with the description of a new species, and its consequences for conservation:"
http://zookeys.pensoft.net/articles.php?id=2586

The species name for the Sonoran desert tortoise has been changed based on this new research. It is now called Gopherus morafkai*.*


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## kimber_lee_314 (Oct 30, 2014)

I believe the "Sonoran" DTs tend to have a flatter carapace. Their "wheel wells" as I have heard them called are more opened so to speak - presumably for climbing more. This information was given to me by a speaker from the Tortoise Preserve - I don't have any first hand knowledge of it - so take it all with a grain of salt.


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## russian/sulcata/tortoise (Oct 30, 2014)

are G.Morafkai and G.Agassizii the same species? can they breed?


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## kimber_lee_314 (Oct 30, 2014)

Yes - they can breed. I suspect there are many hybrids out there.


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## armandoarturo (Oct 30, 2014)

@russian/sulcata/tortoise They are different species, but they can breed because they are from the same genus. Their offspring would be sterile because they are hybrids.. (I believe)..

@Yvonne G ... are you sure about this? .. I've been searching around and everything keeps saying morafkai is from south colorado river...

Now im so confused hahaha


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## russian/sulcata/tortoise (Oct 30, 2014)

what are G.Agassizii and G.Morafkai normal species names?


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## armandoarturo (Oct 30, 2014)

Gopherus Agassizii and Gopherus Morafkai ...
is that your question....?

@Ciri .... thats a very interesting document...
It does compares Agassizii and Morafkai..

"Morphologically, _Gopherus morafkai_ can be separated from_Gopherus agassizii_ in having a relatively narrower shell, shorter gular scutes, shorter projections of the anal scutes and in having a flatter, pear-shaped carapace"


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## armandoarturo (Oct 30, 2014)

@Yvonne G 
Look what the document says:


Distribution.
_Gopherus morafkai_ occurs naturally east and south of the Colorado River in Arizona, as well as in Sonora, including Tiburon Island, and Sinaloa on the west side of the Sierra Madre Occidental, Mexico (Berry et al. 2002). The species appears to have been recently introduced from Sonora into at least one home in La Paz, Baja California Sur, Mexico as pets, where it successfully reproduced (Patricia Galina, personal communication to RWM). It likely occurs as introduced individuals or populations in North America and possibly elsewhere, although in this case many individuals are likely hybrids of_Gopherus morafkai_ x _agassizii_.


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## ascott (Oct 30, 2014)

http://www.usgs.gov/newsroom/article.asp?ID=2842#.VFMpXijw5iF


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## ascott (Oct 30, 2014)

morafkai is by visual, flatter and pear/egg shaped, vs the essentially even front to back of agassizii...but that is pretty basic printed information as well


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## armandoarturo (Oct 30, 2014)

Great @ascott !!
thanks so much for the information!! 
Now I think I kind of get the difference between the species


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## ascott (Oct 30, 2014)

I believe that one of the men folk here is morafkai and the other three men folk agassizii....I will try to get a pic of him (Herman) from above, over the next couple of days as I will be bringing him indoors for brumation and I will also get a pic of the old man (Humphry) from above, for comparison---now, of course I have no paper proof of this, only the visual difference  Plus, that will give some fun for guessing --always fun..


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## armandoarturo (Oct 31, 2014)

Sounds great!!!
I must say I believe I might have different species as well!
I always thought I had agassizii, until I found out that I live in the G.morafkai area... and this blew out my mind!!!
Now.. Im starting to analyze them, and I might have both of them...
Im so confused, I think I will be uploading some pictures and go for the "fun guessing game" hahaha
Cant wait to see your pictures @ascott


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## Yvonne G (Oct 31, 2014)

armandoarturo said:


> [USER=398]@Yvonne G ... are you sure about this? .. I've been searching around and everything keeps saying morafkai is from south colorado river...
> 
> [/USER]




Sorry to have confused you. It was me who was the confused one. I had the map reversed in my minds' eye. You are correct.

[url]http://www.usgs.gov/newsroom/article.asp?ID=2842#.VFOUifnF-98[/url]


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