# Effect of Improper Environment



## Tom (Jan 23, 2010)

In our torts we have an obvious visual reminder of what happens if you raise an animal in an improper environment. I'm of course referring to pyramiding caused by a lack of humidity.

I've always raised desert species of reptiles in a hot, dry environment. I wonder what, if any, damage this does to our non-shelled friends . There is nothing obvious on the outside and they've all seemed to be fine, but I wonder.

For the past few years, I've been using humid hide boxes for everything, but prior to that, they were all kept dry.

Anyone know of any problems with this?


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## -EJ (Jan 24, 2010)

As long as the animal can have access to a dry environment... your idea is perfect.



Roachman26 said:


> In our torts we have an obvious visual reminder of what happens if you raise an animal in an improper environment. I'm of course referring to pyramiding caused by a lack of humidity.
> 
> I've always raised desert species of reptiles in a hot, dry environment. I wonder what, if any, damage this does to our non-shelled friends . There is nothing obvious on the outside and they've all seemed to be fine, but I wonder.
> 
> ...


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## -ryan- (Jan 30, 2010)

Roachman, are you speaking of other reptile species, like desert lizards? (for example)

The problems associated with low humidity manifest themselves in other ways. Renal failure is a primary cause of death in desert lizards, and it's directly related to being kept in a 'beef jerky maker' type enclosure (screen top, dry substrate, heat lamps... put a thin piece of beef in there for a couple days and see what happens to it). The sad thing is, most people still don't realize this, and that's why we have bearded dragons that only live to be 6-10 whereas in australia they are have been known to live into their twenties. People just don't understand what it means to be a desert animal. It doesn't mean the animal goes without hydration, it means that the animals used its environment (burrows, ground cover) that allow them to maintain a higher humidity.

I have a bearded dragon that is somewhere between 8 and 10, and this may be his last year, but that doesn't have anything to do with renal failure. He has an inoperable malignant tumor. I had a full-grown mali uromastyx that I rescued in 2002 that passed away this past year. When I say she was a rescue, I don't mean she was being kept in a 20 gallon tank and she wasn't being fed anymore. I mean that she had third degree burns covering most of her back that were untreated, she was in a 10 gallon enclosure (full grown uromastyx...) with only a heat rock, an empty water dish, and her own feces (literally... I still have the pictures somewhere). She was severely overweight and when I say severely I mean that you would literally be stunned to see what she looked like. She was diagnosed with liver disease at the outset, and she had some ups and downs, but even with severe renal problems (which cause the fluid retention, which is why she was so overweight) I was able to keep her going and healthy for more years than I would have imagined possible by keeping her in a habitat with limited ventilation, a few inches of good dirt to burrow in (and maintain humidity) a hot hot basking spot, and low, flat hides (which create humid microclimates due to the soil). Even with all of her problems, she laid a clutch of 16 infertile eggs for me a couple years before she passed away. She was one of the best pets I have ever had though, because I know that she knew that we were her allies. She would literally run to the door as soon as she heard the lock being undone and just sit there while we let her lick our hands and pet her under the chin. I have a young mali now, and she is the polar opposite. When I need to get her out of her enclosure she runs, whips, and hisses!

Because of this experience, I have implemented that natural type of setup with almost all of my animals. I credit such a setup with the fact that my bearded dragon has been living somewhat healthy with pretty severe cancer for the past two years. The thing is, it's the easiest thing in the world to do. You just pour in as much dirt as you can fit, literally toss in some cork bark or other flat, wide pieces of wood (that create tons of hiding places and basking sites), and make sure there is enough heat as well as enough cool. The only reason more people haven't switched over to it, in my opinion, is because pet shops and internet care sheets proliferate the nonsense that all desert reptiles live in a sandy, dry environment.

Sorry... I get a little worked up


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## Tom (Jan 30, 2010)

That's not worked up. That's good old fashioned common sense at work. I've come to the same conclusion too. My baby Black-throated Monitors are on 4-5 inches of damp coco fiber with a humid hide box, a regular hide, and a big bowl of water. I'm sad to say I did the beef-jerky maker set-ups for years. I just didn't know any better. I read all the books and magazines. I talked to the "experts" at the shows and followed their advice. I did do regular soaks on all of those animals and, to the best of my knowledge, it never caused any problems for me. That might be because I've always used 5-6 foot long enclosures even for small reptiles. Good thermal gradients.

Thanks for sharing what you've learned. Hopefully others will read this and not go through what we did.


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## Nobody (Jan 31, 2010)

I live here in the Philippines where humidity is quite high.Do I still have to make a humid hide box for my Sulcatas?If yes,how do I make one?At present,the flooring of my Sulcata's hide box are newspapers and hay over them.
Thanks.


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## Tom (Jan 31, 2010)

If your enclosures are indoors, in a air conditioned house, under all sorts of hot lights, then yes, you need one. Whether you need it or not, it won't hurt anything to offer one to them.

I use plastic storage boxes of the appropriate size. Shoebox size for hatchlings, bigger as needed. I use a Dremel tool or a hole saw and position the entry hole so it will be just a little above the substrate level in the enclosure. I like to place my hide boxes flat on the bottom of the enclosure and build the substrate back up around it. Then I drill a couple of 1/4 inch holes on opposing sides for a little cross-ventilation. I like to use plain coco coir in mine and keep it fairly damp, but any substrate that resists mold and mildew will work. If the size of the enclosure will allow it, its good to have one on each side of the enclosure.


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