# the secret policemans other ball (warning graphic picture)



## John




----------



## Laura

*RE: the secret policemans other ball*

pics of your snakes are fine.. but do you have to post them eating? 
what is the point? I find it weird that you like to do that...


----------



## [email protected]

*RE: the secret policemans other ball*

that is a cool pic though. i love to watch mine eat.


----------



## Tom

*RE: the secret policemans other ball*

I love watching predators do their thing. My wife can't stand it. She says she knows it happens and she knows that it needs to happen, but she doesn't want to watch it. I do. I want to learn all about it.


----------



## [email protected]

*RE: the secret policemans other ball*



Tom said:


> I love watching predators do their thing. My wife can't stand it. She says she knows it happens and she knows that it needs to happen, but she doesn't want to watch it. I do. I want to learn all about it.



took the words right of my mouth tom. my son loves to watch it too, he evan gets a kick out of watching my lion fish eat.(so do i)


----------



## Isa

*RE: the secret policemans other ball*

Please could people mention it when their snakes or other reptiles are eating other animals  Thanks.


----------



## John

*RE: the secret policemans other ball*

sorry it wasn't planned that way laura just shot some pics tonite an one thing led too another


----------



## Angi

*RE: the secret policemans other ball*

I need to find a happy post now to get that picture out of my head.


----------



## Candy

*RE: the secret policemans other ball*

O.K. now I'm going to tell you what I think of your posting like you did to Shelly. I didn't look at your other thread because you had warned the squeamish not to look. Why in the world wouldn't you have done it to this one? When I look at a thread I have no desire to see a snake eating a poor little mouse or rat so please mark your threads like you did the other one. You think that putting a camera on the back of a tortoise is cruel but you don't think trapping a live animal in another animals cage for food isn't? What? Are you kidding me? This is a disgusting thread and I am so sorry that I even pulled it up. How sad. Done with looking at your threads as I would call you hypocritical at the least.


----------



## N2TORTS

*RE: the secret policemans other ball*



Tom said:


> I love watching predators do their thing. My wife can't stand it. She says she knows it happens and she knows that it needs to happen, but she doesn't want to watch it. I do. I want to learn all about it.



Well Tom ..... ya better not show this to wifey! ... 
Caught this rare predator doing what they do best ~ 






JD~


----------



## terryo

*RE: the secret policemans other ball*



Candy said:


> O.K. now I'm going to tell you what I think of your posting like you did to Shelly. I didn't look at your other thread because you had warned the squeamish not to look. Why in the world wouldn't you have done it to this one? When I look at a thread I have no desire to see a snake eating a poor little mouse or rat so please mark your threads like you did the other one. You think that putting a camera on the back of a tortoise is cruel but you don't think trapping a live animal in another animals cage for food isn't? What? Are you kidding me? This is a disgusting thread and I am so sorry that I even pulled it up. How sad. Done with looking at your threads as I would call you hypocritical at the least.



I am absolutely, unequivocally, in total agreement. This is your thing and if you enjoy it, that's fine, but there are people here, myself included that don't, so you really should give a warning when you are goind to post something others find distasteful. 

Thanks Jeff....I think we needed that one.


----------



## Ruby's Mom

*RE: the secret policemans other ball*

gee and I get kicked out of forums for breathing!!! thanks for the laughs guys!!! sorry people it's all a part of nature. I'm constantly asked why I just can't feed the snakes hotdogs or veggies... you think that's what they eat in the wild? We can post pics of our torts eating, these guys posted their snake/former snakes eating. Okay, it's done, let's forgive and forget. 

Don't make me dig out the big guns and post pics of people licking windows on the short bus!!!


----------



## onarock

*RE: the secret policemans other ball*

I would agree with the warning. This is a tortoise forum and people just kinda run through threads and probably dont want to get "hit" with images like that, but comparing it to a turtle with a camera glued to its back or whatever is apples and oranges. I mean, come on. Really?


----------



## Laura

*RE: the secret policemans other ball*

I think I made my point.....


----------



## dmmj

*RE: the secret policemans other ball*



N2TORTS said:


> Tom said:
> 
> 
> 
> I love watching predators do their thing. My wife can't stand it. She says she knows it happens and she knows that it needs to happen, but she doesn't want to watch it. I do. I want to learn all about it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well Tom ..... ya better not show this to wifey! ...
> Caught this rare predator doing what they do best ~
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JD~
Click to expand...

I don't recall giving my permission to be photographed


----------



## Josh

*RE: the secret policemans other ball*

I added a warning. Keep the thread on topic, please.


----------



## John

*RE: the secret policemans other ball*


----------



## chadk

Hang on a second. I think at least one of the dissenters here posted pics of their box turtles eating LIVE bugs and worms... No warning!!! How is that any less hypocritical than someone posting a pic of a snake eating a frozen\thawed rat that was killed in a humane way? At that point, it is just meat - with fur... Do you ever eat fish? Chicken? Feed meat to your dogs or turtle or cats????

I'll never forget the first time one of my snakes grabbed a dead mouse from my feeding tongs. Could not believe the amasing speed and efficiency. There is a real food chain in life. Though has pretty blurry lines - some critters are on the top one day, bottom the next. Even the top will be at least worm food at some point... Life. Can't have it without death.


----------



## Yvonne G

*RE: the secret policemans other ball*



onarock said:


> I would agree with the warning. This is a tortoise forum and people just kinda run through threads and probably dont want to get "hit" with images like that, but comparing it to a turtle with a camera glued to its back or whatever is apples and oranges. I mean, come on. Really?



Candy wasn't comparing it to the camera. She was making the point that he thought taping a camera to a turtle's back was abuse, but he fed a live mouse to a snake, not thinking anything about the abuse to the mouse. At least the turtle didn't die like the mouse did.


----------



## onarock

I know Yvonne. She was comparing the cruelty and the comparison is ridiculous. Animals have to eat, tortoises dont need cameras attached to their backs. The comparison of the two is apples and oranges. I think I was clear. This discussion doesnt warrant anymore of my time because to argue that the two arent apples and oranges is futile. However, Yvonne, if you want to try and argue the poing, I'm up to it. I'll tell you what. Sit there and think about it and start post your thoughts. I'll check in on this from time to time and when I feel youve made a good arguement I'll respond, but I'm not holding my breath.


----------



## Candy

You know Yvonne was just being nice trying to explain what you didn't understand from my post. I won't try to explain it to you because I can tell that you wouldn't get it anyway so why waste anyone's time, right? So go ahead and hold your breath all you want to I don't think Yvonne really cares, do you?


----------



## onarock

*RE: the secret policemans other ball*



Candy said:


> O.K. now I'm going to tell you what I think of your posting like you did to Shelly. I didn't look at your other thread because you had warned the squeamish not to look. Why in the world wouldn't you have done it to this one? When I look at a thread I have no desire to see a snake eating a poor little mouse or rat so please mark your threads like you did the other one. You think that putting a camera on the back of a tortoise is cruel but you don't think trapping a live animal in another animals cage for food isn't? What? Are you kidding me? This is a disgusting thread and I am so sorry that I even pulled it up. How sad. Done with looking at your threads as I would call you hypocritical at the least.



So were on the same page as to what I'm capable of undarstanding and not capable of understanding. I agreed with the first part of your post and wrote that I did in previous posts. Quoting You "You think that putting a camera on the back of a tortoise is cruel but you don't think trapping a live animal in another animals cage for food isn't? What? Are you kidding me? Like I said "Apples and Oranges". I could explain what apples and oranges are, but I dont think your capable of understanding that. As far as Yvonnes translation of all the posts I dont really care about that either. Oh and like I stated, in case it was written in French, I'm not holding my breath. So as far as you telling me to keep holding my breath. WHAAAAT? Are You Kidding Me?????


----------



## ALDABRAMAN

*RE: the secret policemans other ball*



N2TORTS said:


> Tom said:
> 
> 
> 
> I love watching predators do their thing. My wife can't stand it. She says she knows it happens and she knows that it needs to happen, but she doesn't want to watch it. I do. I want to learn all about it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well Tom ..... ya better not show this to wifey! ...
> Caught this rare predator doing what they do best ~
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JD~
Click to expand...


Now that is funny, I like it....





chadk said:


> Hang on a second. I think at least one of the dissenters here posted pics of their box turtles eating LIVE bugs and worms... No warning!!! How is that any less hypocritical than someone posting a pic of a snake eating a frozen\thawed rat that was killed in a humane way? At that point, it is just meat - with fur... Do you ever eat fish? Chicken? Feed meat to your dogs or turtle or cats????
> 
> I'll never forget the first time one of my snakes grabbed a dead mouse from my feeding tongs. Could not believe the amasing speed and efficiency. There is a real food chain in life. Though has pretty blurry lines - some critters are on the top one day, bottom the next. Even the top will be at least worm food at some point... Life. Can't have it without death.



I feed my alligator snapping turtle live fish and worms. He won't eat grass or cactus. See your point, however I am not a snake or lizzard enthusiast.


----------



## SILVERSTAR

IN HIS DEFENSE THE GUY DID POST ''WARNING GRAPHIC PHOTO'' that should have been acknowledged in my opinion.. in all fairness.


----------



## coreyc

SILVERSTAR said:


> IN HIS DEFENSE THE GUY DID POST ''WARNING GRAPHIC PHOTO'' that should have been acknowledged in my opinion.. in all fairness.



He did not put the Warning up Josh the administrator did just for the record post # 18


----------



## Yvonne G

onarock said:


> I know Yvonne. She was comparing the cruelty and the comparison is ridiculous. Animals have to eat, tortoises dont need cameras attached to their backs. The comparison of the two is apples and oranges. I think I was clear. This discussion doesnt warrant anymore of my time because to argue that the two arent apples and oranges is futile. However, Yvonne, if you want to try and argue the poing, I'm up to it. I'll tell you what. Sit there and think about it and start post your thoughts. I'll check in on this from time to time and when I feel youve made a good arguement I'll respond, but I'm not holding my breath.



HUH???? I'm a moderator, not an instigator. I was merely trying to explain Candy's point of view.


----------



## Mao Senpai

I don't know... everything has to eat so. I mean plants and bugs are alive and have feelings too. They are just silent and choose to express themselves differently. Now I love small critters and such too.. as I've had gerbils and such in the past. I just.. don't see whats the big deal, it's not like theres blood or the limbs are ripped apart. Besides people at the buffet eating are far more grotesque!


----------



## onarock

emysemys said:


> onarock said:
> 
> 
> 
> I know Yvonne. She was comparing the cruelty and the comparison is ridiculous. Animals have to eat, tortoises dont need cameras attached to their backs. The comparison of the two is apples and oranges. I think I was clear. This discussion doesnt warrant anymore of my time because to argue that the two arent apples and oranges is futile. However, Yvonne, if you want to try and argue the poing, I'm up to it. I'll tell you what. Sit there and think about it and start post your thoughts. I'll check in on this from time to time and when I feel youve made a good arguement I'll respond, but I'm not holding my breath.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HUH???? I'm a moderator, not an instigator. I was merely trying to explain Candy's point of view.
Click to expand...


You know Yvonne, I wouldnt have hammered you if I didnt think it was warranted. I went back and looked at other times you responded to my post with truncated versions of them trying to make me look like an a** or YOU not fully understanding the thread and trying to put me in my place or that time YOU were flat out rude to me when I was trying to figure out how to post pics on threads and I didnt read Kyryas post because you were telling me to read Kristinas post. I didnt know her real name. You actually apologized for that one. So as far as you not being an instigator, I dont see it that way. Sorry if I jumped the gun on you, but maybe you have a better understandin of why I did.


----------



## terryo

chadk Wrote: 
Hang on a second. I think at least one of the dissenters here posted pics of their box turtles eating LIVE bugs and worms... No warning!!! How is that any less hypocritical than someone posting a pic of a snake eating a frozen\thawed rat that was killed in a humane way? At that point, it is just meat - with fur... Do you ever eat fish? Chicken? Feed meat to your dogs or turtle or cats????

Just wanted to add my apologies to anyone who has a pet night crawler, wax worm, meal worm, or butter worm, if I offended you by posting my boxies eating them. If I do post any more pictures like this I will post a warning first.
I don't understand why no one here has posted pictures of their pet worms, like people have posted pictures of their pet rats. 
On a more serious note, I respect everyone's right to feed their pets whatever they want to, but because some people find this tasteless, I still say there should to a warning for those of us who don't want to open the post.....simple enough, and absolutely NO offence meant to any snake owners. IMO.


----------



## ChiKat

terryo said:


> Just wanted to add my apologies to anyone who has a pet night crawler, wax worm, meal worm, or butter worm, if I offended you by posting my boxies eating them. If I do post any more pictures like this I will post a warning first.



My pet mealworm and I thank you.



terryo said:


> On a more serious note, I respect everyone's right to feed their pets whatever they want to, but because some people find this tasteless, I still say there should to a warning for those of us who don't want to open the post.....simple enough, and absolutely NO offence meant to any snake owners. IMO.



I agree. I would not have clicked on this thread if there had been a warning. Obviously snakes have to eat rodents, but I don't want to see that  Though I was relieved to hear that you feed F/T!
On another forum someone posted a picture of their cat eating a fuzzy little chick...with no warning...and I could not get that image out of my head for the longest time!


----------



## Ruby's Mom

So what do you folks do when your specific tortoise is required to get it's monthly animal protien fix as is required of Redfoot tortoises? I sprinkle a few canned mealworms or crickets on Ruby's food, but sooner or later I'm going to have to cave and offer her a pinky mouse like I was instructed when I adopted her.


----------



## John

for the record i feed live its what they do in nature kill and eat,ive seen a snapping turtle grab duckling's off the surface of the water,they do that too live.i do however regret not posting a warning never crossed my mind didn't know this was a pg site,maybe that warning should be posted.WARNING THIS IS A PG SITE,AND IF YOU DO NOT AGREE WITH PEOPLE YOU WILL BE LABELED ARGUMENTITIVE,ALSO WE ARE ALL HERE TOO JUDGE YOU SINCE WE ARE ALL BETTER THAN YOU SO BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU SAY!!


----------



## terryo

I'm sorry you feel that way, because whenever I post I try to be very respectful, and polite, but if you feel that I've offended you in any way, I'm sorry. I don't feel that I am better then anyone at all. Your snake is beautiful, but the reason I don't own any is because I can't stand to feed a live, or frozen animal while it's still in it's natural state, but I certainly don't comdemn any one who does.
As for feeding my Redfoot, they will never get any pinkies, or mice from me. There are other sources of protein to feed, and I only feed mine protein once or twice a month, usually soaked cat food. When he's outside he finds all sorts of worms and bugs....sometimes he finds them inside too.


----------



## ChiKat

squamata said:


> for the record i feed live its what they do in nature kill and eat



Oh boy...aren't you worried about about your snake getting injured (bit?)
In the wild, if a snake came across a mouse and wasn't hungry, they would go their separate ways. Stick them in a captive environment and the mouse might try to defend itself.

And I think we have been pretty respectful in this thread. We politely stated we would like to see a warning in the future.
I have had several sweet, adorable pet rats and I honestly would rather not see rats getting killed and consumed by a snake. A simple warning is all we requested


----------



## chadk

Right Katie. The 'what they do in nature' bit just doesn't hold water. Most reputable and experienced snake owners feed pre-killed rodents. Now if you are OK with being all natural, and letting snake mites take over, predators have access to it, letting a rat chew off your snakes eye, etc, that is your call. But not very smart IMHO. Snakes in the wild often die very young. 

Not a lot of snakes live in a temperature controled plastic bin with food offered on a reliable schedule. So you've already killed the 'just being natural' arguement from the beginning. You may get away with feeding live 1,000 times, but it only takes one time to seriously harm your snake. A thawed out and warmed up rat wiggled around with feeding tongs will still get that snake to turn on the hunting instincts. They will still stalk it, strike fast, and coil. Some snakes have different personalities and may slack off a little on the striking and coiling, but most take feeding time pretty seriously


----------



## Kristina

Personally I feed frozen thawed. However, I raise my own mice and rats, and I do not see it as abuse to feed the rat to my snake. If I didn't, the snake would starve, and that WOULD be abuse. 

Snakes have to eat too. I personally like my snake more than I like rats and mice. I treat the rats and mice exceptionally well, keep their cages spotless and their water fresh and their food is good, fresh and varied, all kinds of fruits and veggies and grains. Then they are humanely euthanized using CO2. Where is the abuse?

I do agree that when posting a picture of a snake or other predator feeding, a warning in the title is, well, pretty much required.


----------



## John

I've been keeping snakes now about 34 years both wild caught and captive bred,had a few get bit over the years,minor wound soon healed snake okay.heard the horror stories but those things happen too people who do not take the time too know their animals and be responsible.the live feed dead feed is an argument for another forum,but i feed live by my preference,i prefer too let the prey wiggle itself.most snakes would starve too death before the ate a non wiggling dead animal in the wild.snakes are predators that is why they exsist.unless you have personally had a snake seriously injured by a rodent,then your comments are most likely coming from reading about or hearing of someone else's experience.If i don't have first had knowledge on a subject i will not comment on it or offer advice,or judgement on someone else's practices.


----------



## Kristina

Well, I took in a rescue snake that had been injured by a rat and because of it became afraid of her prey. She was starving herself to death, had severe bite scars and a missing eye. I think that gives me a right to comment on f/t versus live.

Why do you automatically assume that people don't know what they are talking about? I find it really insulting.


----------



## chadk

News flash... when you have a snake in CAPTIVITY it is no longer IN THE WILD.... Just some food for tought 

PS - have you actually witnessed a snake in the wild actually choose to starve to death rather than eat a previously killed prey item? I wonder what motivates some snakes to eat eggs?


----------



## Kristina

You know Chad, I was going to say the same thing.

The "it is natural for them to take live prey" argument is totally without merit, in my opinion. I have had the same discussion with people that feel the need to feed live ducks, chicks, mice, and fish to their predatory fish.

At the point that at animal has been taken from the wild or captive bred and placed in a glass or plastic box (aquarium or tub) you have taken away 99.9% of what makes that animal "wild" - it's freedom. In the wild, prey has just as much of a chance to escape as the snake or fish has to succeed. There is nothing "natural" about dropping a live creature into a tiny enclosure with a predator. It just plain isn't necessary.

To be frank I don't care what you do. It is your snake, your business. But don't try to make the rest of us feel stupid for not agreeing with you. I just know that I have a fat, happy snake with no bite scars from disgruntled rats. And that is fine by me.


----------



## John

a) my response was not directed at you kyryah i've read alot of your posts and find you very knowledgeable b) i don't assume people don't know what their talking about i make that detrmination by what they post.c) it is common knowledge that feeding dead prey is a conditioning all snakes don't do it readily some never do,as far as snake motivation there is only one thing that motivates a snake survival,as far as eggs since were pulling that from the sky,yes some eat eggs,which by the way is not technically dead,others eat birds,worms,fish,none that i know of seek out dead prey,and i have witnessed my captives kill a food item and loose interest no matter how long that food lays there it will not eat it,put another live one in and whack and devour,have i witnessed a snake starve too death in the wild for lack of live prey,rediculous question.do i think i know more about snakes than chad and chikat absolutely.


----------



## ChiKat

squamata said:


> do i think i know more about snakes than chad and chikat absolutely.



haha well you're right about that part at least! I know next to nothing about snakes.
I do know, however, that feeding f/t is more humane to the snake AND rodent.


----------



## John

never really said or meant too say either,simply snakes prey on live animals thats what they do, frozen rat was not born frozen sombody killed it,i choose too keep snakes and i choose too feed live,i really don't need anyones approval.and for the record i am being humane in not tellin you how i feel about rodents,because you posted your pics and do care for them.too be honest i never really wanted too debate this


----------



## ChiKat

I appreciate that, thanks! I know you didn't intend for a debate in this thread, but I can't help but comment when I believe an animal is being treated inhumanely. Sorry it went off-topic!


----------



## bettinge

I can't believe someone actually posted a picture of some LARGE man eating ground cow in a bun.....disgusting! 
He should have had a shirt on.


----------



## John

finally a lite,i think i may have just laughed. thank you scott


----------



## chadk

squamata said:


> ,have i witnessed a snake starve too death in the wild for lack of live prey,rediculous question..



Clearly then the answer is an obvious "no".





> If i don't have first had knowledge on a subject i will not comment on it or offer advice,or judgement on someone else's practices



Yet you claimed this:



> most snakes would starve too death before the ate a non wiggling dead animal in the wild



Yep, very rediculous... 


(oh, and most folks have no issue warming up the dead rat and wiggling it around a bit if needed to get the snake interested - it isn't that hard.)


----------



## Floof

squamata said:


> c) it is common knowledge that feeding dead prey is a conditioning all snakes don't do it readily some never do,as far as snake motivation there is only one thing that motivates a snake survival



I have to laugh at this one. There are a great many snakes who will readily accept frozen/thaw prey as their very first meal out of the egg. No conditioning involved. I had this experience--in the one clutch of corn snakes I've hatched, ONE out of 10 snakes refused to take dead prey from the start. In other words, from the moment they hatched, 9 of those snakes recognized that dead things made viable prey. Their acceptance of f/t in my care had absolutely nothing to do with "conditioning." As for the other one, all it took was a single live feeding that caused the snake to begin recognizing rodents as prey... Again, no "conditioning" involved, as, once it recognized that pinky mice were food, it was happy to take pre-killed prey without hesitation or any need for trickery ("tease feeding" included). In addition to my own experience, I know of a great many snake breeders who are able to successfully start hatchlings and neonates on frozen thaw prey with no "conditioning" or initial live feedings involved. So, there goes the conditioning argument...

An animal with good survival instinct is going to eat whatever is available and edible--even if it's dead. If a snake goes months without food and comes across a pre-killed prey item, guaranteed easy food, it's not going to ignore that free food just because it's not moving; it's going to eat its fill while it has the chance, because it knows better than to starve to death just because it can't find anything that's still squirming and biting. Same with any other predator... Even if fresh meat is "better" and a live prey more "thrilling," no wild predator in its right mind will pass up a free meal if it stumbles across a dead animal.

Another thing to think about... If a snake will sooner starve to death than take pre-killed prey, how is it that so many people have whole collections of literally hundreds of snakes feeding on frozen/thaw? By your logic, all those snakes should have died a long time ago, or never even been born, considering how many of those same snakes' ancestors have survived, thrived, and even bred while only being given pre-killed prey.

If you choose to feed live, whatever, that's your choice... But don't start making things up willy-nilly to make yourself look better.

*Disclaimer: I apologize if something in this post is worded poorly or sounds off. I'm ill and it can be hard to focus on choosing all the right words when the right side of your head feels like a great big ball of cotton!  I hope I've made my point without confusing too many people... Now excuse me as I track down some cold medicine and take a nice nap!*


----------



## stells

I'm just going to comment on the original post...

Great picture


----------



## onarock

Floof said:


> squamata said:
> 
> 
> 
> c) it is common knowledge that feeding dead prey is a conditioning all snakes don't do it readily some never do,as far as snake motivation there is only one thing that motivates a snake survival
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have to laugh at this one. There are a great many snakes who will readily accept frozen/thaw prey as their very first meal out of the egg. No conditioning involved. I had this experience--in the one clutch of corn snakes I've hatched, ONE out of 10 snakes refused to take dead prey from the start. In other words, from the moment they hatched, 9 of those snakes recognized that dead things made viable prey. Their acceptance of f/t in my care had absolutely nothing to do with "conditioning." As for the other one, all it took was a single live feeding that caused the snake to begin recognizing rodents as prey... Again, no "conditioning" involved, as, once it recognized that pinky mice were food, it was happy to take pre-killed prey without hesitation or any need for trickery ("tease feeding" included). In addition to my own experience, I know of a great many snake breeders who are able to successfully start hatchlings and neonates on frozen thaw prey with no "conditioning" or initial live feedings involved. So, there goes the conditioning argument...
> 
> An animal with good survival instinct is going to eat whatever is available and edible--even if it's dead. If a snake goes months without food and comes across a pre-killed prey item, guaranteed easy food, it's not going to ignore that free food just because it's not moving; it's going to eat its fill while it has the chance, because it knows better than to starve to death just because it can't find anything that's still squirming and biting. Same with any other predator... Even if fresh meat is "better" and a live prey more "thrilling," no wild predator in its right mind will pass up a free meal if it stumbles across a dead animal.
> 
> Another thing to think about... If a snake will sooner starve to death than take pre-killed prey, how is it that so many people have whole collections of literally hundreds of snakes feeding on frozen/thaw? By your logic, all those snakes should have died a long time ago, or never even been born, considering how many of those same snakes' ancestors have survived, thrived, and even bred while only being given pre-killed prey.
> 
> If you choose to feed live, whatever, that's your choice... But don't start making things up willy-nilly to make yourself look better.
> 
> *Disclaimer: I apologize if something in this post is worded poorly or sounds off. I'm ill and it can be hard to focus on choosing all the right words when the right side of your head feels like a great big ball of cotton!  I hope I've made my point without confusing too many people... Now excuse me as I track down some cold medicine and take a nice nap!*
Click to expand...


I think squamata was writing that not all snakes will eat F/T mice or rats. I would agree. I used to work for a large breeder in So Cal many years ago. We bred almost every non venomous snake you can think of. We had day old to long term captive W.C. adults and some would not eat freshly killed or F/t mice or rats both W.C. and Captive bred. There are even snake theories that say Lazy feeders (f/t) make Lazy breeders.


----------



## John

Floof said:


> squamata said:
> 
> 
> 
> c) it is common knowledge that feeding dead prey is a conditioning all snakes don't do it readily some never do,as far as snake motivation there is only one thing that motivates a snake survival
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have to laugh at this one. There are a great many snakes who will readily accept frozen/thaw prey as their very first meal out of the egg. No conditioning involved. I had this experience--in the one clutch of corn snakes I've hatched, ONE out of 10 snakes refused to take dead prey from the start. In other words, from the moment they hatched, 9 of those snakes recognized that dead things made viable prey. Their acceptance of f/t in my care had absolutely nothing to do with "conditioning." As for the other one, all it took was a single live feeding that caused the snake to begin recognizing rodents as prey... Again, no "conditioning" involved, as, once it recognized that pinky mice were food, it was happy to take pre-killed prey without hesitation or any need for trickery ("tease feeding" included). In addition to my own experience, I know of a great many snake breeders who are able to successfully start hatchlings and neonates on frozen thaw prey with no "conditioning" or initial live feedings involved. So, there goes the conditioning argument...
> 
> An animal with good survival instinct is going to eat whatever is available and edible--even if it's dead. If a snake goes months without food and comes across a pre-killed prey item, guaranteed easy food, it's not going to ignore that free food just because it's not moving; it's going to eat its fill while it has the chance, because it knows better than to starve to death just because it can't find anything that's still squirming and biting. Same with any other predator... Even if fresh meat is "better" and a live prey more "thrilling," no wild predator in its right mind will pass up a free meal if it stumbles across a dead animal.
> 
> Another thing to think about... If a snake will sooner starve to death than take pre-killed prey, how is it that so many people have whole collections of literally hundreds of snakes feeding on frozen/thaw? By your logic, all those snakes should have died a long time ago, or never even been born, considering how many of those same snakes' ancestors have survived, thrived, and even bred while only being given pre-killed prey.
> 
> If you choose to feed live, whatever, that's your choice... But don't start making things up willy-nilly to make yourself look better.
> 
> *Disclaimer: I apologize if something in this post is worded poorly or sounds off. I'm ill and it can be hard to focus on choosing all the right words when the right side of your head feels like a great big ball of cotton!  I hope I've made my point without confusing too many people... Now excuse me as I track down some cold medicine and take a nice nap!*
Click to expand...

it appears you disagree with people i find too be very knowledgeable on the subject maybe you should write a bunch of books and maybe n.e.r.d will notice you,and take back all they have pulished and change there ways.and i quote"with a little patience it is fairly easy too condition the ball python to accept and eat pre-killed or frzen/thawed prey items" kevin mccurley.just happen too be rereading kevin's book.i can scan my library for you if u need more examples 





chadk said:


> News flash... when you have a snake in CAPTIVITY it is no longer IN THE WILD.... Just some food for tought
> 
> PS - have you actually witnessed a snake in the wild actually choose to starve to death rather than eat a previously killed prey item? I wonder what motivates some snakes to eat eggs?



whats the incinuation here in regards too egg eating snakes are you suggesting they feel sorry for rodents soo they eat eggs.maybe they hang out in burrows singing john lennen songs and drawing peta banners,is that it?


----------



## Marty333

Nice snake!!! Really pretty!!! IMO its like us eating steak except without the fur. I really don't find it disgusting but if people are offended then i guess a warning would be nice. But really a snake eating makes people that mad its not even bloody. Just my thought.


----------



## TKCARDANDCOIN

Oh, by the way, I love your Ball Python.


----------



## pdrobber

nice, I've wanted a ball python but apparently all snakes in the python family are illegal in NYC...so I'll stick with my corn snake. we're still on pinkies but I'm thinking we'll be starting with double/larger ones/fuzzies soon.


----------



## gummybearpoop

Wow this thread is crazy.

I don't understand how snakes eating live mice is inhumane though. Perhaps, some dog food/cat food company will make snake food chow in pellet form because it is more humane. Though, I do understand that people don't like to view animals being eaten, but we all take a chance when we open up that thread/email that says "Warning!" or "Graphic Picture". I know I regretted doing that at work!

But ewww another Ball Python! haha just kiddin


----------

