# Old DT has runny nose that won't seem to go away



## foxboysracing (Jul 11, 2012)

Hi,

I have an older DT(maybe 50-75 years old) that I have had for a few years. He has always been happy and healthy. Well.... now he has a runny nose. At first I warmed him up more and thought it was just from the spring weather here going from hot to cold to hot like it was. I took him to the vet just to be sure. She prescribed Baytril injections but truly thought that this would pass on its own. If not, then I could start the injections. I warmed him up, gave him as much sun time I could and gave him daily warm soaks in a Tetracycline bath. He appeared to be doing a little better. I ran out of the tetracycline and wasn't sure that was helping a whole lot. He was eating several times a week. But not the daily that I like. He has lost about 4 ounces. He started sounding like he was breathing through snotty stuff in his nostrils ( It did not sound like it was coming from his lungs). The snot did appear to be getting a little thicker. But not much. I took him back to the vet. she said he had mycroplasma(sp??) She had done some more research and was a little leery to advice the Baytril injections due to the sheer amount of the dose and the possible necrosis of his tissue. She did state that obviously that would be the best choice if he took a sudden downturn. She said it is really common and often comes and goes. She advised daily soaks, increased temps, saline nose spray with baytril nose flushes. I am concerned that it does not turn into an RI. Have you ever heard of doing this? 
He still has a runny nose, although, maybe a smidgen better. He is a little more subdued, naps a lot more, although he did chow down on my plants in the garden. He does traipse around in his pen about half the time like his old self on a nice sunny day. He comes in at night and I try to keep him at 85 or 90(with several mistings) all night and then let him go out during the day in the sun. It has been mid to high 80's here. I wish he was back to his own self. Any ideas?

I appreciate all your help!


----------



## Laura (Jul 11, 2012)

probably should culture it and see what Antibiotic will work for it.. some need long term treatment.. months...


----------



## foxboysracing (Jul 11, 2012)

The vet said Baytril works. She cultured it. Tetracycline works also but many are immune to it. My question is... I (my husband actually... I'm a needle wimp) have given my box turtles Baytril injections before without a ton of trouble. ( it does make me a little scared, but sometimes its that or they don't make it, if they are really ill) Although, I usually start with the tetracycline first and see if it works, then go on to something stronger. I do routinely inject a worm with baytril if I get a sick Box turtle and that works great, is very effective, and removes the negative side effects of Baytril. I have been leery about injections until absolutely needed due to the risk of site injury. I was ready to give him Baytril if I couldn't get him to respond quickly. But, now I am having my doubts. The sheer amount she prescribed was A LOT! I am horrible with dosing but it was 2.5?? for an 8 pounds tortoise. She said tortoises take 3x the regular dosing of any other animal of Baytril. Has anyone else heard that? I tried injecting a strawberry. no go. Plus I couldn't get anywhere near the entire dose into one. 
I just worry about him. He is my wise old soul. I want him well.


----------



## reticguy76 (Jul 11, 2012)

Just get oral suspension. Most of us in the vet field try not to give injections to reptiles (especially baytril) if we can at all avoid it

never heard of torts imparticular taking 3 times the dose of any other animal.


Is this a true exotic (reptile/amphibia, more specifically) vet ??


----------



## foxboysracing (Jul 11, 2012)

reticguy76 said:


> Just get oral suspension. Most of us in the vet field try not to give injections to reptiles (especially baytril) if we can at all avoid it
> 
> never heard of torts imparticular taking 3 times the dose of any other animal.
> 
> Is this a true exotic (reptile/amphibia, more specifically) vet ??



Do you have any tips on how to get them to take that?


----------



## ascott (Jul 11, 2012)

I am sorry to hear ....also, I would stop spraying him in his indoor enclosure---he is too old to worry about the humidity issues some folks seek when raising a baby....the spraying is not necessarily a good thing....I believe that if you want to offer spritzing I would do that when he is outdoors in his open air yard with the sun shinning....

I have our old man Humphry here that I had to have an abscess removed a year ago...as part of his treatment after-- he needed 14 days of Baytril injections....one day in one front leg, the next day in the other front leg (not the actual leg but the loose skin between his head and leg structure---that smooth thin layered area of skin--not into the muscle but just under the skin) and it did fantastic....with every day of injections you will need to be sure to give your tort a nice warm long soak (about an hour) as antibiotics are very harsh on a torts kidneys---but if the alternative is a tort that needs the shots and does not get them is worse--then you need to make that choice and get on with it, you know what I mean (and I so don't mean that in a pissy way, just saying)

It is absolutely much gentler on the tort if you have a partner in crime....first off--have the entire shot loaded, bubbles tapped out and ready.....then a lap to set on, the person who owns the lap should set the tort sideways on their lap (with the target side pointing away from the lap persons body) and that same person should gently lay the front leg along side the torts shell/arm pit and make sure that they are able to keep the arm there (not pushing or pressing hard-but just secure) and this will allow the skin to remain a little loose--but not too loose and not crazy tight....and with a plan in mind the bad guy (or gal) comes in from the front and lets the tort see your hand (surprise appearances create the tuck in and quick motion) and once the tort regains a moment of relaxation--the shot should be given--the needle only needs to be in the skin far enough to be sure that the medicine will be safely injected under the skin--the medicine should not be quickly pressed in but rather a little slow so that there is as little discomfort as possible (I don't mean an hour worth of pressing but just not a slam of the fluid)...and the person holding the tort in place should be prepared for movement incase the tort decides "hey, what the heck"...once medicine is in, slowly remove the needle and have a cotton ball wet with cool water and place it over the injection site and gently massage the spot to assure med is moved in and that the site is feeling better and then I use to soak him directly after that...then he got a yummy treat...then sent on his way to either be annoyed, but more times than not he was just fine....

If your vet actually tested and diagnosed the funk then, if I were you, I would offer the injections....I do not know why she says that torts need a larger amount than any other animal...that just sounds odd....is your vet an experienced tortoise vet????


----------



## reticguy76 (Jul 11, 2012)

reptiles have a increase of injection site abscesses and possible tumors with baytril and other fluoroquinalone antibiotic class drugs. your tort is big enough to open the mouth and squirt it in (if attempts on food fails). Also, you can get oral medications compounded to just about any strength. Higher the strength, less amount to be given orally


----------



## foxboysracing (Jul 11, 2012)

My vet is an all animal vet all though she is the only in her practice that sees any exotics. She is learning about turtles and tortoises in particular, although she does see other reptiles too. She has worked on several of my turtles before with great results. As far as an exotics or specialized reptile vet, no she is not. The second time I took him in she called his previous owner who IS an exotics only vet for a local wild animal park and has now moved to San Diego, and was a coworker of hers. She called him and he was the one that told her about the baytril nasal flushes and that it would come and go. He said if it gets bad to do Baytril injections, without a doubt. But, I could try orally first too. He didn't seem terribly concerned. I am not sure where she saw that tortoises take 3x as much of a dose. I have the bottle in front of me now(2.27%). She recommended 2.5ml of Baytril by oral or IM every other day for 10 days. Does that sound right for a 7.5-8 pound tortoise? Not asking anyone for vets advice. I have one of those. Just wondering how it compares to what others are giving? It seems like an awful lot to inject, and WAY to much to get down orally. I tried. It was ugly, and I was really not sure how much I got down him for sure. I also worry about getting it into his lungs on accident. Am I worrying too much?
Angela - I am absolutely willing to give the injections. I am. I just want to make sure I am not harming him in any other way. Make sense? If he needs it. He will get it. I already have it here. I completely understand what you are saying.


----------



## reticguy76 (Jul 12, 2012)

He should be getting around 18mg into the muscle (im) or by mouth (po) every 24-48 hours for 7-14 days.

Should be around 0.8mls

Either route is not fun. They will fight you on the oral route and how much do they actually get is a factor

however, baytril stings when going into the muscle, and they are tough to hit a legitimate muscle.


----------



## foxboysracing (Jul 12, 2012)

reticguy76 said:


> He should be getting around 18mg into the muscle (im) or by mouth (po) every 24-48 hours for 7-14 days.
> 
> Should be around 0.8mls
> 
> ...


----------



## reticguy76 (Jul 12, 2012)

Good luck. Make sure to crank up temps some to help boost the torts immune system.

All in all, you have to do what you feel is best for your friend and what is most comfortable to you. There is no wrong way to administer medications. Every way has its own benefits and potential problems.


----------

