# Swollen and Teary Eyes



## dleebs (May 13, 2013)

Yesterday, I noticed my indian star tortoise eyes were swollen.. And today it got even more swollen (i guess) and teary. I don't see any runny nose.





He eats fine. I give calcium 2x a week. I soak him in warm water 20 minutes everyday. Get about 2 hours each day grazing to get sunlight and exercise. I shared his enclosure here.

Substrate: coconut coir
I provide water dish in the enclosure
I always try to maintain the humidity not below 80%
Basking area: 100F
The lamp that I use is Solar Glo 125W which provides UVA and UVB which is always on for 12 hrs a day

So what should i do now to cure him? And what do you think the problem is? respitory problem? eye irritation? Or anything else? I've googled a vet that can handle tortoise here, I only found 1 and it's quiet far from where i live..

Thanks..


----------



## ascott (May 13, 2013)

What is the torts diet? Have you tried flushing his eyes gently for a few minutes to see if something has irritated them....how close is the light to the tortoise?..How long does that light remain on? Is there anywhere that is warm but not under the bright light--so he can get warm but out of the light??? How often do you do long warm water soaks?


----------



## Tom (May 13, 2013)

Sorry I didn't see this sooner. I can't believe no one else said anything all the usual people must not have read your thread because none of us keep stars.

Those coil type UV bulbs can burn their eyes. That is the most likely source of your problem in my opinion. Stop using the coil bulb immediately and see if his eyes improve in a week or two. Hopefully his eyes are not damaged permanently.

If your babies are getting 2 hours of sun every day, you do not need any indoor UV at all. You can just use regular incandescent flood bulbs for basking heat.


----------



## sibi (May 13, 2013)

Everything you are doing sounds right. What I want to know is how are you measuring temps? Do you use a temp gun? Your have a 125w sunglo bulb, but if you have it too far up, temps may not be reaching your desired goal. Likewise, if you have it too low, temps may get really hot. A temp gun is the most reliable measurements. I would try what Angela suggested with warm, gentle flushes to see if maybe the eyes got irritated somehow. Also, when you shut off the lights, what are you using for heat at night? If you are using some other light(red/black light) I would switch to a CHE (ceramic heat emitter) instead.

After looking back at your enclosure, you have a daylight, but when you shut off those lights at night, you don't have something to keep temps up at night. If you have temps at 85+ at night, and it's that warm on their enclosure, then perhaps you may not need it. But if you have air-conditioning in the house, your stars may be too cold at night. What are night temps without lights?

And one last question: when you had the coil bulbs, how long did you use it on your stars before you switched it to a mercury vapor? I hope that it wasn't the coil bulbs that caused the swollen eyes/damage.


----------



## ascott (May 13, 2013)

> Those coil type UV bulbs can burn their eyes.



Tom, the bulb this member is using isn't a coil....


----------



## Tom (May 13, 2013)

Look at the link showing her enclosure. She didn't list it in this thread, but it is clearly shown in the other.


----------



## ascott (May 13, 2013)

LOL..there was coil bulb for the stars but then replaced with MVB ..I believe that from what is said and what the enclosures look like...that the MVB is still too much at 125 wt for such little babies and there does not appear to be anywhere for them to retreat out of the bright intense light with their young sensitive little eyeballs


----------



## Tom (May 13, 2013)

I've used 160 watt MVBs on babies. I don't think that's the problem.

I see the dates on the original thread are 4-24 with the coil bulb and 5-5, with the new changes. 11 days, plus however long she ran the bulb before making that original thread would be plenty of time to burn the eyeballs and get this reaction.


----------



## sibi (May 13, 2013)

The member did have a coil bulb, but had switched it when she found out that it can damage tort's eyes. The question I posed is how long did the torts have exposure to the coil bulbs before switching.


----------



## ascott (May 13, 2013)

> would be plenty of time to burn the eyeballs and get this reaction.



Absolutely....kinda would like to hear back on how close the bulb is now and if there is any hiding spots, you know what I mean? I personally would dim it down and use an alternate heat source and shut the bright light off until the little eyes feel better and I also believe that gentle water eye flushes will help out too....


----------



## sibi (May 13, 2013)

Tom, when she gave her intro, she had just purchased the stars on 4/19/13. When she changed the bulb it was on 4/25/13. It was about 6 days that the babies were exposed. Personally, all that lighting is a bit much besides being exposed for about a week to the coil. Also something is going on with her temps. I think it's too hot or too cold at night. I'm waiting for her response to the temps.


----------



## Tom (May 13, 2013)

ascott said:


> > would be plenty of time to burn the eyeballs and get this reaction.
> 
> 
> 
> Absolutely....kinda would like to hear back on how close the bulb is now and if there is any hiding spots, you know what I mean? I personally would dim it down and use an alternate heat source and shut the bright light off until the little eyes feel better and I also believe that gentle water eye flushes will help out too....



Ahh... You've moved on to the cure, while I'm still back at the cause. Okay. I'm caught up now. Proceed.


----------



## ascott (May 13, 2013)

LOL....you are funny Tom....now we all just hurry up and wait for the member to offer more on the 411


----------



## dleebs (May 13, 2013)

ascott said:


> What is the torts diet? Have you tried flushing his eyes gently for a few minutes to see if something has irritated them....how close is the light to the tortoise?..How long does that light remain on? Is there anywhere that is warm but not under the bright light--so he can get warm but out of the light??? How often do you do long warm water soaks?



He eats mostly grass, weeds, etc.. I give like lettuce, and other greens twice a week and mix it with calcium.. I haven't tried to really flush it, but everyday before soaking i pour a little water all over him.. i'll try to flush it niw.. The light is 11.8 inch from the basking stone.. The light is on for 12 hours a day.. I have a ceramic lamp but not yet installed it.. I soak him everyday for 20 minutes.. 



Tom said:


> Sorry I didn't see this sooner. I can't believe no one else said anything all the usual people must not have read your thread because none of us keep stars.
> 
> Those coil type UV bulbs can burn their eyes. That is the most likely source of your problem in my opinion. Stop using the coil bulb immediately and see if his eyes improve in a week or two. Hopefully his eyes are not damaged permanently.
> 
> If your babies are getting 2 hours of sun every day, you do not need any indoor UV at all. You can just use regular incandescent flood bulbs for basking heat.



Hi Tom, i just posted it tho.. Thanks for your concern.. 

I used to use a coil UVB lamp, but i just switched it to solar glo 9 days ago i guess.. cos i took the picture for the enclosure right after i put the MVP.. But the problem of with the eyes just started yesterday.. Could it be still because of the coil bulb? or it can be caused by UVB overexposure?? cos i read it here that swollen and puffy eyes can be caused by UVB overexposure..

I guess as long as i can get him out for the sunlight at least 2 hours a day, i just use ceramic heat emitter instead of solar glo (uvb bulb) then?



sibi said:


> Everything you are doing sounds right. What I want to know is how are you measuring temps? Do you use a temp gun? Your have a 125w sunglo bulb, but if you have it too far up, temps may not be reaching your desired goal. Likewise, if you have it too low, temps may get really hot. A temp gun is the most reliable measurements. I would try what Angela suggested with warm, gentle flushes to see if maybe the eyes got irritated somehow. Also, when you shut off the lights, what are you using for heat at night? If you are using some other light(red/black light) I would switch to a CHE (ceramic heat emitter) instead.
> 
> After looking back at your enclosure, you have a daylight, but when you shut off those lights at night, you don't have something to keep temps up at night. If you have temps at 85+ at night, and it's that warm on their enclosure, then perhaps you may not need it. But if you have air-conditioning in the house, your stars may be too cold at night. What are night temps without lights?
> 
> And one last question: when you had the coil bulbs, how long did you use it on your stars before you switched it to a mercury vapor? I hope that it wasn't the coil bulbs that caused the swollen eyes/damage.



I use exo terra digital thermometer.. The bulb is 11.8 inch above the basking spot, i measured it with the thermometer it's 100F. I have a CHE but not yet installed it.. if i turned of the MVP, the temp is about 83F.. I don't have air conditioning in the sapce where i put the enclosure.. 

Wow guys.. thanks a lot for loooootttsss of advice and help.. I purchased the torts on the April 5th and started using using the uvb coil bulb right away and only switched it to May 5th.. I just realised that it's exactly 1 month! I have 2 hiding caves in there but the torts seems to like to be near the lamp, probably because of heat..

So, i guess i'll try gentle flush, switch the MVB with CHE, what about vit A?? 

Again, a million thanks guys!!


----------



## ascott (May 14, 2013)

http://www.healthaliciousness.com/n...php?o=11233&t=11568&h=11270&s=100&e=100&r=100

Some foods high in vitamin a....please do not only feed these items as they are good as part of a varied diet....

I would absolutely take the bright light away for awhile and the che should work well during that time...keep us posted


----------



## dleebs (May 14, 2013)

ascott said:


> http://www.healthaliciousness.com/n...php?o=11233&t=11568&h=11270&s=100&e=100&r=100
> 
> Some foods high in vitamin a....please do not only feed these items as they are good as part of a varied diet....
> 
> I would absolutely take the bright light away for awhile and the che should work well during that time...keep us posted



Thanks for the link Angela.. Sure i will always give them varied diet.. 

Yup.. I just turned off the lamp, and will put the CHE up as soon as possible.. 

Hope he will recover soon.. absolutely will update here..

Thanks again..


----------



## dleebs (May 20, 2013)

Update:

The swollen eyes actually gets better.. However it's still teary and now i see fluid discharge from his nose and i just saw tiny bubbles on his mouth..  

So, it's respiratory infection then? 

I put him outdoor most of the time now.. I put him back to his enclosure when it's dusk and turn on the CHE..

Any advice on what should i do now..??


----------



## sibi (May 20, 2013)

Can you get him to a vet? If his nose is running and he has bubbles coming out from his mouth, then it's likely a cold. What you don't want is a cold to turn into pneumonia. Keep him warm with humidity. I would keep him in his enclosure where temps can be controlled. Is he eating, pooping, a d peeing normal?


----------



## dleebs (May 20, 2013)

i guess so.. I probably can get him to a vet by tomorrow..

eating pooping and peeing normal.. both of my indian star have runny nose now.. 

Will have both of them checked out by tomorrow.. 

Thanks Sylvia


----------



## ascott (May 20, 2013)

Did you get a way to measure temps in your enclosure? what is the overall temp in the indoor enclosure? and what are the outdoor temps while they are outside? 

If you are saying that there are bubbles coming from the "mouth" that is different than a bubbly nose....especially if you are saying that they are eating and carrying on ....are their eyes swollen? or are they simply crying eyes? May we see a pic of their eyes please as they are now?


----------



## dleebs (May 21, 2013)

I just checked outdoor temp, it is 91.6F
I checked overall indoor enclosure with CHE 60W yesterday 85.3F
The eyes not always teary.. and the fluid discharge from the nose happened this morning.. There's only tiny bubble on their mouth but not always there.. You can see at the pictures below.. 

note: i had to move the indoor enclosure to the unused semi outdoor space at my house, cos we just installed AC in my house at the space where the table was.. but it's safe from rain and all.. 

Here's the recent pics


----------



## ascott (May 21, 2013)

*



I just checked outdoor temp, it is 91.6F

Click to expand...

*
Do they have a cool area to be in? They need to be able to cool down if this is the temp they are in---in the sun they are going to be waaaay hotter than that...



> *I checked overall indoor enclosure with CHE 60W yesterday 85.3F*



What is the humidity at this constant temp? 

Their eyes are indicative of immediate help needed...I would soak them each in their own warm water bath with baby food mixed in (carrot, squash, pumpkin, sweet potato) to help them take in some nutrients while soaking....you have completely turned the coil bulb off and not using it at all right? If yes, then that would be about 1 week and a half since their exposure right?


----------



## dleebs (May 22, 2013)

ascott said:


> *
> 
> 
> 
> ...



They have 4 hiding caves, and under the potted plants i put 2 water dishes.. I'll put more plants tomorrow.. They didn't spend much time today in the outdoor cos it was raining heavily today..



ascott said:


> > *I checked overall indoor enclosure with CHE 60W yesterday 85.3F*
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Overall humidity in the enclosure 85%.. It just rained here it went up to 89%..

One of them still eats good.. The other one just eat a lil bit.. This morning all of them ate bok choy mixed with mazuri and added with vitamin and calcium.. I soaked them twice today.. morning and around 4 pm.. I've completely removed the coiled bulb.. not gonna use it anymore.. 

I couldn't take them to the vet today.. it rained heavily.. and God knows the traffic in Jakarta when it rains.. It can take up 2 hours from where i live to the vet and another 2-3 hours on the way back..

In the mean time all I do now is to soak them twice a day and keep them warm.

Hope they get well soon.. 

Will update again on how it goes!


----------

