# I have a question...



## TortLover33 (Dec 4, 2012)

When u breed a tort, can u mix breeds together?


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## sibi (Dec 4, 2012)

*RE: I havr a question...*

What are you trying to mix breed? For instance, you can't breed an aquatic turtle with a land tort...it just doesn't work. Most torts should not mix breed...why would you want to anyway? It's just my opinion, but I believe keeping each species separate thus ensuring its uniqueness.


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## wellington (Dec 4, 2012)

*RE: I havr a question...*

I don't believe in mixing either. There are some sulcata leopard mixed out there, they are really cute, but it shouldn't be done on purpose. Thats just my opinion.


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## Baoh (Dec 4, 2012)

*RE: I havr a question...*

Several different tortoise species can be bred to one another to produce hybrids. 

Some can be rather neat. Here is one. It mates with all of the tortoises of disapproving keepers after breaking into their cages like a _ninja_.


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## bigred (Dec 4, 2012)

*RE: I havr a question...*



Baoh said:


> Several different tortoise species can be bred to one another to produce hybrids.
> 
> Some can be rather neat. Here is one. It mates with all of the tortoises of disapproving keepers after breaking into their cages like a _ninja_.



Very funny, Beautiful ninja tort, Wonder how big that guy is going to get. Do you know how old he is?


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## jtrux (Dec 5, 2012)

*RE: I havr a question...*

It's hard to tell what you're asking exactly. Are you asking if you can cross breed different species or if you can house different species together while attempting to breed?


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## Baoh (Dec 5, 2012)

*RE: I havr a question...*



bigred said:


> Baoh said:
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> > Several different tortoise species can be bred to one another to produce hybrids.
> ...



She was 15" scl the last time I measured her and is under four years old. I suspect she will grow much larger in time.


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## bigred (Dec 5, 2012)

*RE: I havr a question...*



Baoh said:


> bigred said:
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She is a beauty for sure and will be a big gal Im sure. I havent done alot of research on lepracattas reproducing. Are the reproducing when they become a Hybrid ninja tort? I think they are very beautiful and interesting


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## Baoh (Dec 5, 2012)

*RE: I havr a question...*

Honestly, I have no idea yet if they can reproduce with each other or either parent species. I may find out in 2013.


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## bigred (Dec 5, 2012)

*RE: I havr a question...*



Baoh said:


> Honestly, I have no idea yet if they can reproduce with each other or either parent species. I may find out in 2013.



I dont know all the science behind it but I wish you luck.


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## Baoh (Dec 5, 2012)

*RE: I havr a question...*



bigred said:


> Baoh said:
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> > Honestly, I have no idea yet if they can reproduce with each other or either parent species. I may find out in 2013.
> ...



Thanks. 

If he is game, the sire would be my ivory male. She is possibly (50%) heterozygous for the ivory gene (and 50% for the sunset hypo gene), so if she is an actual het, possibilities include half 75%sulcata/25%pardalis that are 100% het for ivory and half homozygous 75%sulcata/25%pardalis ivories. If she ends up not being a het, then the offspring will all be 75%sulcata/25%pardalis 100% het for ivory. It will be another couple of years before I could try mating her back to a Gpp het sunset hypo to see how that proves out, with similar results/proportions as above, but swapping the species percentages and involving the sunset hypo trait instead of the ivory trait.

I also have two other adult female tortoises I will try to make other types of hybrids with. Unfortunately, both species of the gals have a more elaborate courtship, so that may prevent typical get-it-on male sulcata mating from being successful. He tried with one, but she was not interested, so a butt wiggle maneuver caused a dismount. If she is not receptive this year, I have some backup plans in mind. If all end up being successful in terms of both mating, fertilization, and development, this would generate two new types of giant tortoise hybrids.


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## bigred (Dec 5, 2012)

*RE: I havr a question...*



Baoh said:


> bigred said:
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I think you will pull it off, Just going to take some TIME


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## Tom (Dec 5, 2012)

TortLover33 said:


> When u breed a tort, can u mix breeds together?



It is physically possible to produce hybrids by allowing two different species to breed, but it is unethical and should never happen.


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## yagyujubei (Dec 6, 2012)

*RE: I havr a question...*

She's looking great! Personality wise, which parent does she seem to favor? She is Leopard x sulcata. Have there been any sulcata x leopards? I wonder how similar those might be.


Baoh said:


> bigred said:
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## Baoh (Dec 6, 2012)

Thanks, Dennis. Genetically, a sulcata x pardalis should be either the same or very similar to pardalis x sulcata since they have TSD and do not use sex chromosomes. I am not sure if we have only seen male pardalis successfully hybridizing with female sulcata because of a biological reason or simply due to a statistical reason, but my hunch is that it is the latter.

Personality is somewhat in between. She does not yet dig on her own, but will readily use a burrow. She does not ram, but she will do a linebacker/bulldozer-style shove if she gets spooked or when another animal tries to behave in a dominant way. First she will draw in if surprised, but will start shoving soon after if I get in her face. Her grazing style is always eat-step-stop-eat-repeat. Some of my sulcatas will be very mobile grazers, but will usually sit for a bit in an area to mow a particularly appealing patch of ground cover. She has never done that and only sits still if a food source is concentrated, like a piece of fruit or a dish with Mazuri. Otherwise, she strictly adheres to the feeding pattern mentioned. She is smoothing out further and is very strong. I have to be careful. She has separated a (my) cuticle from the nail twice.




Tom said:


> TortLover33 said:
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> > When u breed a tort, can u mix breeds together?
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Nothing unethical about it in personal collections and it will continue to happen.


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## bigred (Dec 6, 2012)

Baoh said:


> Thanks, Dennis. Genetically, a sulcata x pardalis should be either the same or very similar to pardalis x sulcata since they have TSD and do not use sex chromosomes. I am not sure if we have only seen male pardalis successfully hybridizing with female sulcata because of a biological reason or simply due to a statistical reason, but my hunch is that it is the latter.
> 
> Personality is somewhat in between. She does not yet dig on her own, but will readily use a burrow. She does not ram, but she will do a linebacker/bulldozer-style shove if she gets spooked or when another animal tries to behave in a dominant way. First she will draw in if surprised, but will start shoving soon after if I get in her face. Her grazing style is always eat-step-stop-eat-repeat. Some of my sulcatas will be very mobile grazers, but will usually sit for a bit in an area to mow a particularly appealing patch of ground cover. She has never done that and only sits still if a food source is concentrated, like a piece of fruit or a dish with Mazuri. Otherwise, she strictly adheres to the feeding pattern mentioned. She is smoothing out further and is very strong. I have to be careful. She has separated a (my) cuticle from the nail twice.
> 
> ...





I would have to agree


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## LRTortoises (Dec 10, 2012)

I have wondered this about Cherryheads and Redfoots since they are the same breed just different locales.


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## Baoh (Dec 10, 2012)

LRTortoises said:


> I have wondered this about Cherryheads and Redfoots since they are the same breed just different locales.



I am actually of the mind that I would rather make a very different cross than a very similar cross. For example, I prefer not to cross Hermann's tortoise subspecies. You get offspring that can look like either or both, which can then muddy the waters if you do not end up keeping them all forever. However, there are situations where I would. If I had a morph redfoot tortoise and wanted to increase the brilliance of its red coloration, I might be willing to breed it to a cherryhead in order to create hets which could enhance coloration in the following generation when bred back to the morph parent. Another example is locale. I will cross my keystone ivory male, an animal of either unknown or mixed locale heritage, with a Sudanese locale female, hoping to thereby create hets that have enhance size potential relative to the standard. Those hets could then be bred to each other to keep the percentage of contributing genes similar or they could be crossed back to the ivory father in order to kick out the next generation of ivories faster, assuming whatever genes might be responsible for enhanced size end up being inherited by a decent percentage of ivory offspring. One can direct the line breeding to favor selection of the ivory frequency versus the Sudanese frequency, depending on the desired outcome and the time table sought after. I would not cross locales or subspecies for less pressing reasons, though, and anything like these would be clearly labeled if presented for sale. Anything I breed, pure or mixed, is very clearly labeled regarding its identity because I consider that a part of being a responsible seller.


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