# Brumation and rain



## AraBlu (Dec 4, 2014)

We're getting some rain and my SDT are outside, we are getting some rain and although they are not getting rained on, they may be getting damp; what do I do? Do I awake them? Someone told me that as long as they are not submerged that they can survive the rains.

Thanks for your help!


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## Yvonne G (Dec 4, 2014)

Hi Bob:

I'm sure it must rain occasionally in the desert, however, I've always been told that to allow a desert tortoise (or Russian or whatever) to get wet while he's hibernating might be a death sentence. For that reason, I always provide a dry place for them to hibernate. I never allow them to hibernate in their burrows.


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## Tom (Dec 4, 2014)

This is one reason why I would never hibernate them outdoors. You are leaving them at the mercy and whim of mother nature. Many of them die this way, and I have personally witnessed grown men sobbing upon discovery of their dead tortoise.

I've never lost one hibernating them indoors under controlled conditions. "Surviving the rains...", or just surviving any of the rigors of the great outdoors has never been my goal. I want to provide the best conditions I can and I want to allow them to thrive, not just survive. Stable, dry, consistently cool indoor conditions for hibernation is what I consider optimal.


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## AraBlu (Dec 4, 2014)

Is it safe now to move them into a styrofoam cooler? The folks at the Arizona Herpetological Society said to keep them outdoors.


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## Yvonne G (Dec 4, 2014)

Yes, just disturb him as little as possible. I would use a cardboard box. The styrofoam doesn't breathe and respirations might cause humidity inside the styrofoam. Get the box ready with the shredded paper all set to add the tortoise before you pick him up. Then place the box in a cool, dry place where it's going to stay between 40F and 50F degrees.


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## AraBlu (Dec 4, 2014)

Our daytime temperatures rarely go below 50...


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## WillTort2 (Dec 4, 2014)

Some of the members use a refrigerator for brumation.


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## Yvonne G (Dec 4, 2014)

A closet in a back bedroom with both doors shut and the heating vents closed usually works as a cool place.


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## Tom (Dec 4, 2014)

I use the concrete floor of my garage, but this can be difficult in a warm climate like ours. We have 80-90 degree days here all throughout winter. I choose to use a dedicated refrigerator in my garage set to the correct temps. Seems weird to some people, but its super good for the tortoises. I hibernated many reptiles without a fridge for many years, but keeping it cool enough was always a problem.

Here is another option to consider for next year perhaps. I use these same set ups for temperate animals (like DTs) without and heat and they work great. This particular one is set up for tropical animals that need warm temps all year.
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/daisys-new-enclosure.28662/

The main problems with hibernating them outside are flooding, burrow collapse, temperature extremes in shallow or man made burrows (either too hot or too cold), and lack of access to the tortoise once its down in a deep enough burrow. Using the above set up gives them the benefit of living outside underground with the correct temps and environment, but it eliminates all the risks. Rodents would be the only risk not eliminated by my underground boxes or by the garage floor method. The fridge method eliminates every problem.


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## ascott (Dec 4, 2014)

Are they down in natural dug burrows? If yes, good luck reaching them....it can be done, but what makes you think that they are wet? I mean, if their burrow is remaining drying inside (other than the entrance/apron to the burrow) and they are in danger of flooding out...then they are likely fine....I am one to also prefer brumating the torts indoors (give me peace of mind), I have two indoors in their boxes inside of their winter closet (that is it, no fancy set up--simply and works)...and then two of the other torts decide in the middle of October to duck into their burrows way down under the earth and have not been up since (well, I spotted one, he spotted me and slide back down the burrow in a puff of dust...lol)....if you are keeping an eye on the burrow and no flooding, if you are looking into the burrow (with flashlight if needed) and see the burrow walls are dry---then sounds as though they have hunkered down for the winter and have done so, if for no other reason that to worry you....lol...


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## AraBlu (Dec 5, 2014)

They did dig burrows, these are about 4-5 inches and their burrows are about a foot into the ground but very difficult to access. They came to the opening of their burrows yesterday when it was raining and the openings were damp, later, they went back further into their burrows. Like I mentioned earlier, a gentleman at the AZ Herp Society which does a lot of the adoptions said that its natural to allow them to brumate outdoors, I was preparing to bring them in but after speaking with him, I decided to let them do it outside. I bought a styrofoam cooler and I will decide this weekend whether to put them into it—more than likely, I will. 

Again, thank you for all the input. I love these little guys but the learning curve is different since I have macaws and used to deal with non-native tortoise species such as redfoots and such.


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## Tom (Dec 5, 2014)

AraBlu said:


> Like I mentioned earlier, a gentleman at the AZ Herp Society which does a lot of the adoptions said that its natural to allow them to brumate outdoors, I was preparing to bring them in but after speaking with him, I decided to let them do it outside. I bought a styrofoam cooler and I will decide this weekend whether to put them into it—more than likely, I will.
> 
> Again, thank you for all the input. I love these little guys but the learning curve is different since I have macaws and used to deal with non-native tortoise species such as redfoots and such.




Everybody has an opinion. Hibernating in a shallow hole in your back yard is not "natural" in any way. Many tortoises die every year from following misguided advice like that. Herp societies are not known for giving good advice. Same problem here with DTs and the CTTC. They teach people how to dehydrate tortoises and then marvel at the giant kidney or bladder stones they helped create... Its sad really.

Styrofoam will not work. They will dig at the corners and shred it. A plastic cooler will work. I always use plastic tubs or plastic shoe boxes.

I keep macaws and lots of other animals too. Every species and even individuals within a species have different requirements. That other experience will give you insight into this one, so its a good thing.


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## Millerlite (Dec 5, 2014)

I keep my guys out year roud and mine go down for like a month or two depending on out winter. Never lost one yet. As far as rain. My tortoise is in her burrow and the entrance is wet but inside the burrow it's dry. She will poke her head out to see what's going on. But on cold spells she may bo come out or chooses not too. Just make sure the burrow isn't flooding which is something to worry shout. But they should be fine 



Kyle


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## AraBlu (Dec 11, 2014)

With recent and upcoming weather conditions, I am going to put them in plastic shoeboxes with holes drilled for ventilation and then put them in boxes. I really hope this works. Again, thanks for all the input!


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## kibog (Dec 11, 2014)

Hi everyone! Our little Larry just went into brumation the end of October. He didn't come out, that I know of, for 4 weeks until we had a rain. He was outside on his little porch just sitting in the rain!!! He was only out about 20 minutes then went back to his burrow to sleep. I gather since it was still warm, around 75 degrees, but raining, he decided to soak up some water and hydrate then back to his dry burrow again. I think they may come out very infrequently for this particular reason until it gets REALLY cold day AND night. It was such a shock to see him out there, it's our very first winter with him! But we are not to disturb him or feed him, but just seeing him made me happy enough.


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