# Can we all calm down?



## stephiiberrybean (Nov 6, 2011)

This is to everyone before people start thinking it's directed at anyone.

I, for one, think we are all getting a bit het up and not showing a very nice atmosphere for new members. 

There are people you don't like and people you won't like all through your life. If you don't like a person ignore their post and stop arguing with each other.

I know I've posted a couple of the posts but it's just getting out of hand now. I feel like leaving and I'm a active member who's been here a few months. I feel sorry for all the new members on here.

Honestly I'm struggling to cope with a few personal things as it is. I use to come on here and be able to kick back, have a laugh, share information, read interesting debates about things and learn. Now everywhere I turn I feel like we are at each others throats and I have to be on high alert with what I post and say. 

Can we all just calm down and chill out? Whatever problems people have had can they do the mature thing please and move on from it all. I don't care if you never post in a thread that person is in ever again just stop all the arguments. It is causing tension to even people who use to get on and have a laugh. 

Rant over. Sorry guys had to express how I feel and someone has to say something.


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## Tony the tank (Nov 6, 2011)

stephiiberrybean said:


> This is to everyone before people start thinking it's directed at anyone.
> 
> I, for one, think we are all getting a bit het up and not showing a very nice atmosphere for new members.
> 
> ...




You know..I don't think I like your attitude...Way to civil..


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## Kristina (Nov 6, 2011)

Maybe I have not been reading the right threads, but I have missed the tension. I have not seen anyone at anyone else's throat. I have seen disagreements - but there is nothing wrong with that. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. The only time it becomes a problem is when names are called and the attacks become personal. 

Plus everyone has to remember - there are 10,730 members and that number goes up daily. Not everyone is going to love every one. I agree there is a need to be civil, but please also remember that the written word does not allow for tone or intent. If words sometimes seem blunt and possibly even harsh, well, that is the nature of the format in which we communicate.


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## TurtleTortoise (Nov 6, 2011)

I haven't seen any truly horrible threads posts, most of which they were kidding or teasing. But I guess we do need to slow down a bit.


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## tyler0912 (Nov 6, 2011)

I have not seen any harsh threads either..?


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## Tom (Nov 6, 2011)

Unanimous. What threads are you talking about? I've missed them too. I've been enjoying the silly banter with you, Tyler and everyone else who chimes in.

... no need to mention Anthony and his apparel choices...


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## GBtortoises (Nov 6, 2011)

"You know..I don't think I like your attitude...Way to civil.." 

Thems fightin' words! LOL

Sorry-I don't see the hostility anywhere. Everyone (definitely me!) gets passionate about their subject now and then. I have no problem with that. 

"Don't say something about someone that you can't say to their face if you have to."


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2011)

I guess I missed those threads too.


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## dmmj (Nov 6, 2011)

But I am all angry and worked up now.


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## stephiiberrybean (Nov 6, 2011)

dmmj said:


> But I am all angry and worked up now.



Your the main culprit 


It was just a few posts I had seen and then I had a few PMs which weren't so I thought I'd address everyone


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## Tony the tank (Nov 6, 2011)

Dmmj is only the first of what's going to escalate into a major episode...see people are going to wonder what they missed and start reviewing posts...when they don't find something..there going to get aggravated and angry..Not unlike the way DMMJ is at the moment....Then they will post a response on an ongoing thread ..And of course having all that bottled up anger inside it will show through the post..Oh...what have you done..


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## lynnedit (Nov 6, 2011)

These threads are making my head spin...


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## TurtleTortoise (Nov 6, 2011)

lynnedit said:


> These threads are making my head spin...



Me too.


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## ripper7777777 (Nov 6, 2011)

Well as a newb to this forum, I am now very careful what I say and post. Not criticizing or suggesting anything, just saying it from a new to the forum point of view.


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## Yvonne G (Nov 6, 2011)

Sometimes I'm a little naive when it comes to reading between the lines, but I'm afraid I haven't seen any of the animosity that you're talking about.


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## Jacqui (Nov 6, 2011)

ripper7777777 said:


> Well as a newb to this forum, I am now very careful what I say and post. Not criticizing or suggesting anything, just saying it from a new to the forum point of view.



If this is true, then I am very sorry and disturbed. I like so many others had not saw any problem areas. I do realize we have been extremely ummm I guess wild is as good of a word as any in the off topic zone, which to me is where we are allowed a n extended amount of joking, kidding, and strange subject matters.

Sometimes, I really dislike the written word, because we don't have our normal ways to decipher their meaning. Things like our facial expressions, tone, body language. We bring into the reading of words our own personal fears, likes, dislikes, confidence, and even where and how we were raised, let alone what kind of day we are having. The same is true of the person doing the writing. This is on top of the actual words used and the word choices made. Just so many ways for those words to end up being processed by two or minds so totally different. 

I know a brand new person, doesn't have the knowledge to know the style certain folks in here write. That comes with time. Some of us sugar coat things well (some will say too well) and some of us believe in shooting straight from the hip and telling it as we see it, no holds barred (then get labels as rude, harsh, mean, or even brutal). In reality those words are all meant from both styles to convey the same thing and with the same intentions. Neither style is bad and both ways are actually needed to get thru to different folks. Take some time to get to know, those writing styles.

(Just a clue I tend to joke around, but I am also "mean" at times and say what I think needs to be said, even if it might hurt the receiver a bit. If your clothes make you look fat, I will tell you they make you look fat. I also do not go with the flow and openly will give my opposing views based on my own personal experience.) 

We are a passionate group of folks by nature. We want what's best (in our own minds for these marvelous shelled creatures). Unfortunately we each have different actual experiences with our tortoises. This leads us to not agree as to how things should be done. Sometimes it comes across to folks as fighting, when really it is just open sharing of opposing thoughts.

I can see where a new person could feel afraid to jump in with much of anything. Hey, I am the same way in some of the groups I belong too. We do want to hear new thoughts and ideas, even if we seem a bit boisterous and against them. New ideas and even old well repeated questions and thoughts, allow us to think and even reevaluate just why we are doing things. We all are new in here, some are just newer then others. Just as well all have things to learn. 

Please hang in there, test the water before jumping in if that helps, and then go for the leap of faith.... post and then post some more. Yes, some may not like what you say or give you a hard time for it. I know that well, as I tend to not follow the main way of doing things and I am not afraid to say so. I am a huge believer in the fact there is no one way to do ANYthing.


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## tyler0912 (Nov 6, 2011)

I thought everything had calmed down...i thought wrong.


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## Torty Mom (Nov 6, 2011)

I think I missed it also.


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## ripper7777777 (Nov 6, 2011)

Jacqui said:


> ripper7777777 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Well first off, I have not followed anything going on in this forum, I stay out of off-topic forums until I feel like I'm one of the "locals".

I completely understand the normal forum dynamic and at times it works and at times it fails, it's the same way on all forums. I have been part of, helped, admin'd, owned and created many different forums and many times typed my foot into my mouth.

So I'm not overly sensitive, I like the people here, even the ones that don't like me, can't win them all.

Animal husbandry is a sensitive topic, but I have seen people go nuts over opinions about anything from video games to RC Competitions. Personally they are my torts and I will educate myself, ask people for advice and opinions and in the end I will do as I see fit. Nobody on a forum or in person will bully me into believing their way is the only way.


So no worries, I'm not leaving, I only posted because I have observed some issues, not really with me personally, well not only with me, but others that have turned me off from posting and may have just turned others off also, once they got the info they wanted they simply leave. Again just an observation and opinion, not trying to start anything.


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## byerssusan (Nov 6, 2011)

Well I guess I have missed all those nasty threads also.


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## fbsmith3 (Nov 6, 2011)

Simply put whenever someone violently and insultingly contradicts your opinion, they are really just trying to convince THEMSELVES that they are right. The longer the post and the more detail, they more they are unsure of their opinion. 

Also they hijacking of an introduction post with Yankee/Redsox posts is really annoying.


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## nikki0601 (Nov 6, 2011)

Lol, I'm a newbie here kinda, been browsing many months but joined only few weeks or so ago, maybe more.. I must have missed some posts cause I haven't come across any hostility yet, I love it here, during the day I browse from my phone and every night I'm here on my lap top, I'm addicted


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## mattk (Nov 6, 2011)

I haven't seen anything either. I have had nothing but fun here


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## Tony the tank (Nov 6, 2011)

fbsmith3 said:


> Simply put whenever someone violently and insultingly contradicts your opinion, they are really just trying to convince THEMSELVES that they are right. The longer the post and the more detail, they more they are unsure of their opinion.
> 
> Also they hijacking of an introduction post with Yankee/Redsox posts is really annoying.



Wow if that annoys you...life in general must be tough..You should really pm me about it....

"Also they hijacking" (sp?)


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## ascott (Nov 6, 2011)

ok so I am fricken pissed....I did not see the hate posts....I feel like I live in a bubble.....*kicking rocks here*


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## Yvonne G (Nov 6, 2011)

I'm calm.....um-m-m-m-m aum-m-m-m-m (sitting in the lotus position, fingertips touching, eyes closed)


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## ascott (Nov 6, 2011)

Yvonne.....you have me now doing the "rolling idiot" LMAO rolling on the ground.......


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## wellington (Nov 6, 2011)

I think your all nuts! That is what made me join. I have never joined a forum before now. I get educated, share my love for Torts/animals and have a few good laughs all in one spot.
Thank you everyone. 
Now I could use a drink.


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## kimber_lee_314 (Nov 6, 2011)

I haven't seen anything either ... I actually love it when everyone states their opinion, whether or not I agree with it. I love to hear other viewpoints and I have learned a lot this way. Of course I agree everyone should remain civil - but compared to some other forums I've been on - I think this one is pretty good.


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## Maggie Cummings (Nov 6, 2011)

I HAVE seen those tense threads and I have received PM's talking about leaving because of those tense places and tense PM's. So I want to say, ignore those who you don't like. That's hard for me to say because I certainly have had many disagreements here and I know I am disliked by most. We are here to learn and talk about tortoises. Period. But there are some who are using this like Facebook, as a social network. Using TFO as a replacement for not having any real friends. So just remember please, this isn't a popularity contest. It strictly to learn and talk tortoises (and turtles). So just stay away from and ignore those you don't like. And, most of all, don't get hurt because someone is ignoring YOU. I am ignored all the time. But it's not a popularity contest like I said. So if you'd stick to talking chelonia, stuff like this wouldn't happen.


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## Jacqui (Nov 6, 2011)

wellington said:


> Now I could use a drink.



Did everybody hear? She is buying us ALL drinks! Such a generous member. *tries to think what drink I will have...hmmm something with ice cream in it perhaps....*


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## Maggie Cummings (Nov 6, 2011)

fbsmith3 said:


> Simply put whenever someone violently and insultingly contradicts your opinion, they are really just trying to convince THEMSELVES that they are right. The longer the post and the more detail, they more they are unsure of their opinion.
> 
> Also they hijacking of an introduction post with Yankee/Redsox posts is really annoying.



That's not quite true, some of us like to make long posts, in real life I talk a lot and in TFO life I make long posts. Some of us are just more 'wordy' than others...


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## Jacqui (Nov 6, 2011)

maggie3fan said:


> fbsmith3 said:
> 
> 
> > Simply put whenever someone violently and insultingly contradicts your opinion, they are really just trying to convince THEMSELVES that they are right. The longer the post and the more detail, they more they are unsure of their opinion.
> ...



Very true Ms. Maggie! I also find, when trying to do a proper job of giving fully and completely my opinion on things, the posts often get very long.


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## MarkE (Nov 6, 2011)

message board drama? say it isn't so......


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## cherylim (Nov 6, 2011)

maggie3fan said:


> That's not quite true, some of us like to make long posts, in real life I talk a lot and in TFO life I make long posts. Some of us are just more 'wordy' than others...



I agree with this completely. I mostly find that it's the short posts that end up misunderstood.


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## Jacqui (Nov 6, 2011)

MarkE said:


> message board drama? say it isn't so......



It's the spice of life!


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## tyler0912 (Nov 6, 2011)

Jacqui said:


> wellington said:
> 
> 
> > Now I could use a drink.
> ...



A Mcdonalds milkshake! YUMY! 





> That's not quite true, some of us like to make long posts, in real life I talk a lot and in TFO life I make long posts. Some of us are just more 'wordy' than others...





I 2nd this or 3rd...whatever....I parrot this...


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## ripper7777777 (Nov 6, 2011)

I also get wordy, mainly because I like to talk but also because I'm constantly pulled away by my little boy so I may repeat things over and over in one post, I'm not drunk just trying to fight a 2 year old for the keyboard.


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## tyler0912 (Nov 6, 2011)

ripper7777777 said:


> I'm not drunk just trying to fight a 2 year old for the keyboard.



I can just imagine now XD !


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## Laura (Nov 6, 2011)

where have I been? What did I miss? Pass the drinks this way!!!
there have been some issues and heated posts in the past,, but nothing Ive seen recently.. 
at least... Nothing compared to the past..


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## hali (Nov 6, 2011)

i missed it all too - quite like a little drama - never mind lol xxxx


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## Yvonne G (Nov 6, 2011)

I think what Stephi is talking about is the no-nonsense approach some of our more seasoned members have about tortoise-keeping. Some of us would rather tell it like it is than try to sugar-coat it. That approach comes off rather brusque and a brand new person MIGHT misconstrue that it is rude.


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## fbsmith3 (Nov 6, 2011)

maggie3fan,

Well you are the caretaker of Bob, so, you are allowed to be long winded.


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## Tortoise (Nov 6, 2011)

I think owing to the fact that communication is 70% body language its not surprising that people get offended on a forum.
Its hard to get a message through in the written word without someone take it the wrong way.
I think we shouldn't be too quick to judge anyone on here as in a real life situation, they are quite probably _really nice folks._

*We all at least have one passion in common-the tortoises we care for and love-so it can't be that bad!!*

I have not had problems here-I get strong opinions directed at me on occasions but its ok -I prefer to get the info I am asking for without fluffing around and worrying _how_ to take something.

I think we all(I do remind myself often) need to be respectful and show good manners and agree to disagree on occasions.

We all write differently too-there are many locations, tortoises, cultures, experiences etc involved so the variety of written communication methods are huge too. Some people always sound direct and blunt but mean very well and its easy for the more sensitive of us to take offense (probably unnecessarily)

I think this forum is great personally and the odd negative experience so far been hugely outweighed by the info I have learned and the good written conversations I have had with many really nice folks.

*Everyone* deserves a place here on this forum-everyone that cares enough to learn on behalf of their charges.


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## HipsterTorts (Nov 6, 2011)

From someone who watches from a distance because I sill feel like a newbie even though I'm not, there does seem to be a bit of drama here and there. And personal issues between members being brought on to threads(if that makes senes lol.) But also, as someone who has been on many forums, drama is normal. You like some people and you don't like others, that's just how it works.


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## Maggie Cummings (Nov 6, 2011)

I am a no nonsense type person and often am misunderstood as rude or mean. And that's not true at all. I just tell it like it is and I don't sugar coat it so I am called mean and rude. But if someone is not caring correctly for a tortoise who is lethargic and not eating I tell that person what is wrong in no uncertain terms. I don't ever sugar coat my advice, because if a keeper is not caring for his tortoise correctly that tortoise can and often does die. Most often by the time we notice a tortoise is sick he's been sick for a long time. In the wild they need to cover up the symptoms of sickness or others will sense it and go after him. So he's been sick for a long time by the time we see those symptoms and it becomes a life or death situation. So at that point you can't sugar coat your advice or that little tortoise will die.

We had a young keeper who's hatchling was sick and I kept after her to make her parents take the baby to the Vet. Of course they didn't and of course the baby died. So instead of telling that person I was sorry that her baby died. I told her it was her fault and why it was her fault. Then a week or two later she got another hatchling, and I couldn't help myself, I freaked out I told her that was awful. She had no money to take the previous baby to the Vet but now all the sudden she has money to buy another??? I get mad again just thinking about it. You shouldn't get any animal if you can't afford to take them to the Vet. Period. But most people think that tortoises are throw away animals and they don't need to have Vet treatment. They let that animal die and buy another.

Makes me mad just to talk about it again. Anyhow, I am called mean and rude and non caring when I DO care, I care a lot that's why I am here day after day giving out advice and mostly being ignored. But some listen and those babies live. When the keeper sets up the animal correctly and they ask questions, and feed them correctly and soak them and exercise them that animal grows and lives a healthy life. 
Oh hell, I sure went off didn't I? Well, I'm sorry. I guess I'd better go soak somebody and watch my NASCAR race...


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## tyler0912 (Nov 6, 2011)

maggie3fan said:


> I am a no nonsense type person and often and am misunderstood as rude or mean. And that's not true at all. I just tell it like it is and I don't sugar coat it so I am called mean and rude. But if someone is not caring correctly for a tortoise who is lethargic and not eating I tell that person what is wrong in no uncertain terms. I don't ever sugar coat my advice, because if a keeper is not caring for his tortoise correctly that tortoise can and often does die. Most often by the time we notice a tortoise is sick he's been sick for a long time. In the wild they need to cover up the symptoms of sickness or others will sense it and go after him. So he's been sick for a long time by the time we see those symptoms and it becomes a life or death situation. So at that point you can't sugar coat your advice or that little tortoise will die.
> 
> We had a young keeper who's hatchling was sick and I kept after her to make her parents take the baby to the Vet. Of course they didn't and of course the baby died. So instead of telling that person I was sorry that her baby died. I told her it was her fault and why it was her fault. Then a week or two later she got another hatchling, and I couldn't help myself, I freaked out I told her that was awful. She had no money to take the previous baby to the Vet but now all the sudden she has money to buy another??? I get mad again just thinking about it. You shouldn't get any animal if you can't afford to take them to the Vet. Period. But most people think that tortoises are throw away animals and they don't need to have Vet treatment. They let that animal die and buy another.
> 
> ...



Take a breath and goo have a coffee!  
That is awful....Thats is what grinds my gears.


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## HipsterTorts (Nov 6, 2011)

maggie3fan said:


> I am a no nonsense type person and often am misunderstood as rude or mean. And that's not true at all. I just tell it like it is and I don't sugar coat it so I am called mean and rude. But if someone is not caring correctly for a tortoise who is lethargic and not eating I tell that person what is wrong in no uncertain terms. I don't ever sugar coat my advice, because if a keeper is not caring for his tortoise correctly that tortoise can and often does die. Most often by the time we notice a tortoise is sick he's been sick for a long time. In the wild they need to cover up the symptoms of sickness or others will sense it and go after him. So he's been sick for a long time by the time we see those symptoms and it becomes a life or death situation. So at that point you can't sugar coat your advice or that little tortoise will die.
> 
> We had a young keeper who's hatchling was sick and I kept after her to make her parents take the baby to the Vet. Of course they didn't and of course the baby died. So instead of telling that person I was sorry that her baby died. I told her it was her fault and why it was her fault. Then a week or two later she got another hatchling, and I couldn't help myself, I freaked out I told her that was awful. She had no money to take the previous baby to the Vet but now all the sudden she has money to buy another??? I get mad again just thinking about it. You shouldn't get any animal if you can't afford to take them to the Vet. Period. But most people think that tortoises are throw away animals and they don't need to have Vet treatment. They let that animal die and buy another.
> 
> ...



Maggie, I think your 100% correct. If you need to be forceful with somone because they aren't caring for their tortoise correctly then be forceful. No question about it. But I think the drama that is being referred to is drama not having to do with tortoises.


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## dmmj (Nov 6, 2011)

we all know maggie is the meanest person here, but I think we still love her.

I am like a post ninja I make my post and then disappears , often in as few words as possible.


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## cemmons12 (Nov 6, 2011)

I AM CALM!


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## tyler0912 (Nov 6, 2011)

cemmons12 said:


> I AM CALM!



Me too!


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## Jacqui (Nov 6, 2011)

dmmj said:


> we all know maggie is the meanest person here, but I think we still love her.



Yeah, well I am aiming to take her spot as the meanest person in this here forum!


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## stephiiberrybean (Nov 6, 2011)

I wasn't talking about the opinions or way people offer advice. I often come across a bit harsh. I'm fine with all that. 

What I was talking about was theres been a couple of people lately arguing for no reason and it really has annoyed me quite a lot. Especially when there is no need for it. I've seen a couple of people who don't like each other go on at each other.

I was also referring to a few new members who have upset me and a few other members with some comments when they don't know anything about that person and haven't even done there research on that person. Fair enough express your opinions but at least check to see if that person owns a tort, what they own etc.


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## cemmons12 (Nov 6, 2011)

Give'm hell Steph!!!!


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## ripper7777777 (Nov 6, 2011)

maggie3fan said:


> I am a no nonsense type person and often am misunderstood as rude or mean. And that's not true at all. I just tell it like it is and I don't sugar coat it so I am called mean and rude. But if someone is not caring correctly for a tortoise who is lethargic and not eating I tell that person what is wrong in no uncertain terms. I don't ever sugar coat my advice, because if a keeper is not caring for his tortoise correctly that tortoise can and often does die. Most often by the time we notice a tortoise is sick he's been sick for a long time. In the wild they need to cover up the symptoms of sickness or others will sense it and go after him. So he's been sick for a long time by the time we see those symptoms and it becomes a life or death situation. So at that point you can't sugar coat your advice or that little tortoise will die.
> 
> We had a young keeper who's hatchling was sick and I kept after her to make her parents take the baby to the Vet. Of course they didn't and of course the baby died. So instead of telling that person I was sorry that her baby died. I told her it was her fault and why it was her fault. Then a week or two later she got another hatchling, and I couldn't help myself, I freaked out I told her that was awful. She had no money to take the previous baby to the Vet but now all the sudden she has money to buy another??? I get mad again just thinking about it. You shouldn't get any animal if you can't afford to take them to the Vet. Period. But most people think that tortoises are throw away animals and they don't need to have Vet treatment. They let that animal die and buy another.
> 
> ...




Well I can't speak for everyone, but I think your passionate about tortoises and I think you want the best for them, and that's why I'm here, I'm not here looking to find friends, I'm looking for info about tortoises.


Sadly though tortoises, to some people, are disposable, I have seen neighbors kill everything from anoles to baby grass snakes, I try to explain the chain of life and insect control, but to some people reptiles are just throw away things.

But even on here I have seen Hermit Crabs referred to as possible snacks for torts, sure it's a joke and I laughed, but I know people that would freak out over that, like a tortoise being referred to as a raccoon snack.

I think the big thing is to try and teach people to have compassion for animals and to try and give them the best advice you can and not let it ruin your day. Like when you go through petco and see some large red foot trapped in a 20 gallon long with 3 russians, sure I'd like to kick the staff in the arse, but life is the way it is sometimes.


Also I like to keep in mind everyone has their own way of doing it and as long as the animal is happy and healthy so be it. I'm sure there are a few who would criticize the humidity idea for baby sulcatas.


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## dmmj (Nov 6, 2011)

regarding hermit crabs as snacks, some people keep them with their red foots, for bug maintenance and sometimes the red foots will eat them, when they change their shells.


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## ripper7777777 (Nov 6, 2011)

dmmj said:


> regarding hermit crabs as snacks, some people keep them with their red foots, for bug maintenance and sometimes the red foots will eat them, when they change their shells.




Yea I know, it doesn't bug me, I raised pythons when I was younger, things eat things, but I do know some seriously passionate people when it comes to Hermit Crabs. Of course I would not let them know I keep Hermit Crabs with my Torts, I pick and choose what info I share and where, it's just easier that way, I don't have time to fight battles all over the internet, I'll raise my guys how I want.


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## Jacqui (Nov 6, 2011)

ripper7777777 said:


> ..., I pick and choose what info I share and where, it's just easier that way,...


A wise person!


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## stephiiberrybean (Nov 6, 2011)

I'm sorry but that has cracked me up! 

Poor Hermit crabs. They think they are safe and protected then they remove there shell for a moment and bam... they get eaten! 
Oh the image tickled me a little bit. It was all cartoon.
I'm going to have to draw my cartoon strip of it now.

Sorry... Of topic but I had to share. 

What does upset me is when people breed Animals, mice etc to feed them to their snakes. That upsets me a little bit.


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## Jacqui (Nov 6, 2011)

stephiiberrybean said:


> I'm sorry but that has cracked me up!
> 
> Poor Hermit crabs. They think they are safe and protected then they remove there shell for a moment and bam... they get eaten!



See how much smarter tortoises are? They never ever get naked. No sirree, they keeps them shells on.


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## lynnedit (Nov 6, 2011)

Jacqui said:


> stephiiberrybean said:
> 
> 
> > I'm sorry but that has cracked me up!
> ...



Yep, keep yer shell on, tuck yer shoulder, duck yer head and surge forward...
(OK, that is just how my bigger female RT deals with my smaller B****ier female RT). 
Thinking of changing their names to Big Girl and Mean Girl...


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## ALDABRAMAN (Nov 6, 2011)

I read almost everything posted on this forum, and what members say. It is not very difficult to fiqure out the more active members. My thoughts, reply with short polite answers to the threads you want to post on and ingnore the ones you have no interest in. One of my all time favorite sayings is something I learned in canine training many years ago, "avoid the bad and seek the good!" As far as pm's, opt out of them and you will have no issues with any negative communications. I recieve many e-mails from TFO members, in fact, some from people that have joined just to get my e-mail, with many questions and misc. communications. E-mails are more private and provides a direct route of communication with more options. I can say that I have never recieved an e-mail from any TFO member that was drama intended. This forum is a great resource for the tortoise enthusiast, etc. I enjoy reading most threads and seeing the pictures posted as we share the same passion as most members about our tortoises.


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## jaizei (Nov 6, 2011)

maggie3fan said:


> I am a no nonsense type person and often am misunderstood as rude or mean. And that's not true at all. I just tell it like it is and I don't sugar coat it so I am called mean and rude. But if someone is not caring correctly for a tortoise who is lethargic and not eating I tell that person what is wrong in no uncertain terms. I don't ever sugar coat my advice, because if a keeper is not caring for his tortoise correctly that tortoise can and often does die. Most often by the time we notice a tortoise is sick he's been sick for a long time. In the wild they need to cover up the symptoms of sickness or others will sense it and go after him. So he's been sick for a long time by the time we see those symptoms and it becomes a life or death situation. So at that point you can't sugar coat your advice or that little tortoise will die.
> 
> We had a young keeper who's hatchling was sick and I kept after her to make her parents take the baby to the Vet. Of course they didn't and of course the baby died. So instead of telling that person I was sorry that her baby died. I told her it was her fault and why it was her fault. Then a week or two later she got another hatchling, and I couldn't help myself, I freaked out I told her that was awful. She had no money to take the previous baby to the Vet but now all the sudden she has money to buy another??? I get mad again just thinking about it. You shouldn't get any animal if you can't afford to take them to the Vet. Period. But most people think that tortoises are throw away animals and they don't need to have Vet treatment. They let that animal die and buy another.
> 
> ...



I think these are all the reasons I like Maggie. Sometimes 'killing them with kindness' doesn't work and they need someone to be "rude" and "mean" to them before they get it. Not that I think Maggie is either of those.


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## lynnedit (Nov 6, 2011)

Yep, Maggie, you tell it like it is, and you have the tortoises' well being and safety at heart. 
That is all that matters.


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## wellington (Nov 6, 2011)

Did you all get your drinks, and calm down a little?I will not give care advice on tortoises, I am still very new and still learning. I do and will voice my opinion on any animal abuse, and probably won't be nice about it, sorry, I just don't have it in me to be nice on that subject, l usually go for the throat. I think this is a great place to educate and be educated, have fun, and talk to people about things others don't or can't understand. Hope this thread helped everyone and everyone can continue to be happy, funny and educational.
Sorry, I also am one to write and walk away, but I do come back. I just don't know if I should respond to every response.


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## Tom (Nov 6, 2011)

Laura said:


> where have I been? What did I miss? Pass the drinks this way!!!
> there have been some issues and heated posts in the past,, but nothing Ive seen recently..
> at least... Nothing compared to the past..



Hey! I resemble that remark.



stephiiberrybean said:


> I wasn't talking about the opinions or way people offer advice. I often come across a bit harsh. I'm fine with all that.
> 
> What I was talking about was theres been a couple of people lately arguing for no reason and it really has annoyed me quite a lot. Especially when there is no need for it. I've seen a couple of people who don't like each other go on at each other.
> 
> I was also referring to a few new members who have upset me and a few other members with some comments when they don't know anything about that person and haven't even done there research on that person. Fair enough express your opinions but at least check to see if that person owns a tort, what they own etc.



Oh, for cryin' out loud! Who are we talking about? What threads? Spill it, woman!


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## TurtleTortoise (Nov 6, 2011)

Ok pm me if it's me. If it is me, in a pm say exactly why. Just get it over with! If its not, whew!  

I feel it's me.


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2011)

Im sorry but I don't understand why this thread was even started. Seems to me this thread alone has stirred up old feelings. I think if someone is having a problem that they feel they can't handle themselves then pm a mod and don't put it out there for everyone. Sorry if that sounds harsh but it has been a hard day and I like to read TFO threads to de-stress.


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## ascott (Nov 6, 2011)

Missy....I have to give a big fat DITTO on that......


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## lynnedit (Nov 6, 2011)

I do think it is OK to get stuff off of your chest in this 'off topic chit chat section', but then it is time to have fun again!
Lots of good posts floating around...


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## fbsmith3 (Nov 6, 2011)

I agree I read this forum to destress and converse on topics I find interesting. I think this thread does help someone de-stress by getting thing off their chest. 

If a thread is causing stress unsubscribe and ignore it. If that doesn't work, discuss it and get it off your chest. 

All things being equal, we are friends with a common goal and isn't that what makes life worth living.


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## Madkins007 (Nov 8, 2011)

dmmj said:


> regarding hermit crabs as snacks, some people keep them with their red foots, for bug maintenance and sometimes the red foots will eat them, when they change their shells.



LOL! MY hermits were never dumb enough to change shells when the torts were active. One of my favorite times was watching a crab 'testing out' a couple other shells while the tortoises fed a couple feet away. The crab was cautious, and any noise or movement caused a quick retreat either deep into a too-big shell or the original shell.

Also, just to clarify- worms and isopods (wood lice, pill bugs, etc.) eat the bugs and their eggs. The crabs deal with left over food and wastes.


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## dmmj (Nov 8, 2011)

Sorry I thought they were for bug maintenance.(hermit crabs)


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## ripper7777777 (Nov 8, 2011)

Madkins007 said:


> dmmj said:
> 
> 
> > regarding hermit crabs as snacks, some people keep them with their red foots, for bug maintenance and sometimes the red foots will eat them, when they change their shells.
> ...




and it's great for us up late, adds a little activity in the enclosure at night.


Just for the Record I was never offended by any talk of a Hermit Crabs being a snack.


I think people should be able to voice their opinions but they should also know when to shut up. If someone is doing something you disagree with, tell them, educate them, but than let it go. If they have their way of doing things and their animals are healthy and happy, let it be.

and threads like this prove that people can discuss things, agree or disagree and continue to be part of the same forum.


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