# MBD in a Chameleon



## ZEROPILOT (Jan 19, 2021)

This is my newest Chameleon. A 5.5 month old VOHEMAR Panther Chameleon.
I just got him yesterday.
He is showing what I believe to be the early onset signs of MBD.
Notice the curving elbows and the mouth not fully closed. (Sometimes)
He goes to see Dr. K (Kelleher) of T.V. fame at 10 this Friday to be diagnosed and possibly treated.
Will update later.


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## wellington (Jan 19, 2021)

Sure hope it's not. 
Don't know who the vet is. What is the tv fame?


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## Aloysius Taschse (Jan 19, 2021)

Beautiful chameleon. Hopefully it's not MBD. Good luck!


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## Tom (Jan 19, 2021)

You already check for stomatitis?


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## Ink (Jan 19, 2021)

I really love Dr.K and her compassion for all animals. I hope she will make him feel better.


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## ZEROPILOT (Jan 19, 2021)

Tom said:


> You already check for stomatitis?


No
The joints show MBD.
The jaw, I believe, is related.
Although stomatitis is a possibility still.
I'm just guessing.
I only saw that jaw "issue" on the first day. Might've been a fluke.
It looks fine now and his tongue works well.


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## ZEROPILOT (Jan 19, 2021)

Ink said:


> I really love Dr.K and her compassion for all animals. I hope she will make him feel better.


She's fantastic 
She's already saved one of my animals. And it was on deaths door.


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## ZEROPILOT (Jan 19, 2021)

Aloysius Taschse said:


> Beautiful chameleon. Hopefully it's not MBD. Good luck!


Pretty sure it is.
Hopefully it can be stopped before he breaks bones.
Hes still young and small.
I'm hoping to stop it quickly so that he can grow into a high functioning and pain free adult.


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## ZEROPILOT (Jan 19, 2021)

wellington said:


> Sure hope it's not.
> Don't know who the vet is. What is the tv fame?


She has her own show on ANIMAL PLANET.
I spoke about her in my Queen Bertha posts years ago.


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## Tom (Jan 19, 2021)

ZEROPILOT said:


> No
> The joints show MBD.
> The jaw, I believe, is related.
> Although stomatitis is a possibility still.
> ...


Any tremors or shakes?

What's the weather like there? Outdoor sunshine a possibility?


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## ZEROPILOT (Jan 19, 2021)

Tom said:


> Any tremors or shakes?
> 
> What's the weather like there? Outdoor sunshine a possibility?


No tremors or shakes.
His behavior is pretty normal.
My Chameleons do go outside a few days a week this time of year because it's not too hot for them.


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## Tom (Jan 19, 2021)

ZEROPILOT said:


> No tremors or shakes.
> His behavior is pretty normal.
> My Chameleons do go outside a few days a week this time of year because it's not too hot for them.


Definitely something to keep an eye on. The instincts of an experienced keeper are usually spot on. If your gut is telling you its MBD, you may be catching early signs, and I'll bet you've caught it in time to stop it with no long term damage.


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## ZEROPILOT (Jan 19, 2021)

Tom said:


> Definitely something to keep an eye on. The instincts of an experienced keeper are usually spot on. If your gut is telling you its MBD, you may be catching early signs, and I'll bet you've caught it in time to stop it with no long term damage.


I hope so, Tom.
I wish I'd seen those bendy elbows at the shop.
I'll know more on Friday.


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## ZEROPILOT (Jan 22, 2021)

He's inside now being checked over.
I'm required to wait in my truck


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## Chefdenoel10 (Jan 22, 2021)

ZEROPILOT said:


> This is my newest Chameleon. A 5.5 month old VOHEMAR Panther Chameleon.
> I just got him yesterday.
> He is showing what I believe to be the early onset signs of MBD.
> Notice the curving elbows and the mouth not fully closed. (Sometimes)
> ...



He is still Gorgeous!!
I got to this post too late...
How was the doctor visit?
What did Dr. K say?
I watch her religiously!!!
I wish I had her for my pet doctor..
I am praying your little guy does NOT have MBD..
Maybe it’s just bad arthritis??
Good luck 
? 
I’ll be waiting to hear from you!! ????


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## ZEROPILOT (Jan 22, 2021)

It IS MBD
And its pretty bad
Some of his bones. Like toe bones, don't even show up under X ray.
He's going to need perfect husbandry and oral calcium



He was a patient of Dr. PARDINI today


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## Ink (Jan 22, 2021)

I am so sorry, at least you caught it early, and you know what you are doing. Please keep posting and ?


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## Chefdenoel10 (Jan 22, 2021)

ZEROPILOT said:


> It IS MBD
> And its pretty bad
> Some of his bones. Like toe bones, don't even show up under X ray.
> He's going to need perfect husbandry and oral calcium
> ...



I am so sorry to hear that...
But it’s not the end of the world ....?
You will do a great job raising him (as with all of your animals)
So ... chin up!
You will be the best thing for him.
And who’s to say YOUR care might not turn things around? It might take a while but who cares. He is worth it!
And I still think he is cuter than ever!!!???


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## ZEROPILOT (Jan 22, 2021)

He eats, drinks and poops all by himself. Some Chameleons with MBD have issues pooping.
I already screwed up today. I gave him 10 units of calcium instead of 1 due to the markings on my syringe. So tomorrow, I'll skip it altogether.
He seems no worse off for it. Luckily.


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## Chefdenoel10 (Jan 22, 2021)

ZEROPILOT said:


> He eats, drinks and poops all by himself. Some Chameleons with MBD have issues pooping.
> I already screwed up today. I gave him 10 units of calcium instead of 1 due to the markings on my syringe. So tomorrow, I'll skip it altogether.
> He seems no worse off for it. Luckily.



he looks a bit like “Jimmy Durante” to me..
(the nose part)...
???


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## Tom (Jan 22, 2021)

ZEROPILOT said:


> It IS MBD
> And its pretty bad
> Some of his bones. Like toe bones, don't even show up under X ray.
> He's going to need perfect husbandry and oral calcium
> ...


At least you know now.

Any idea what caused it? Wrong diet? Lack of UV? Lack of calcium supplementation? Did the person you got it from not know what they were doing?


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## ZEROPILOT (Jan 23, 2021)

Chefdenoel10 said:


> he looks a bit like “Jimmy Durante” to me..
> (the nose part)...
> ???


His tail is still black from the blood draw.
But he's active this morning.
He's the only Chameleon I've ever had that drinks water in front of me.
He drinks a lot.


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## ZEROPILOT (Jan 23, 2021)

Tom said:


> At least you know now.
> 
> Any idea what caused it? Wrong diet? Lack of UV? Lack of calcium supplementation? Did the person you got it from not know what they were doing?


It's a reptile shop with a VERY arrogant owner. The same owner that sold me the younger female as a male. 
NOT UNDERGROUND REPTILES 
He has coiled CFL uvb lamps and I also suspect was cheap on the dusting. (My bad for not looking closer at him before purchase)
YOUTUBE videos show him feeding that same Chameleon (he has a distinctive scar and a VOHEMAR is unusual in general) from several months ago. So this happened on HIS watch.
I've sent him the vets paperwork. He looked at it but hasn't responded.
If he still hasn't offered any help whatsoever in a week, I will start leaving reviews.
A great case of someone that knows everything.....Yet his animals are dying.
I'm pretty pissed.


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## Chefdenoel10 (Jan 23, 2021)

ZEROPILOT said:


> His tail is still black from the blood draw.
> But he's active this morning.
> He's the only Chameleon I've ever had that drinks water in front of me.
> He drinks a lot.



I am truly happy for the both of you!
You seem to like him a lot .
so lots of love will change this MBD thing soon enough. I pray for him now sooooo...
We have that going for him.?.. ????


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## Chefdenoel10 (Jan 23, 2021)

ZEROPILOT said:


> It's a reptile shop with a VERY arrogant owner. The same owner that sold me the younger female as a male.
> NOT UNDERGROUND REPTILES
> He has coiled CFL uvb lamps and I also suspect was cheap on the dusting. (My bad for not looking closer at him before purchase)
> YOUTUBE videos show him feeding that same Chameleon (he has a distinctive scar and a VOHEMAR is unusual in general) from several months ago. So this happened on HIS watch.
> ...



I worry for the animals!!!
How many are STILL in his care!????


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## ZEROPILOT (Jan 23, 2021)

Chefdenoel10 said:


> I worry for the animals!!!
> How many are STILL in his care!????


Dozens 
Hundreds
But I shared with him all of the results and the x ray via Email and FB messenger.
What he does with that information?
Who knows.
But now he has factual evidence that his reptile keeping is not working.
Regardless of what he previously thought.
I'm about ready to unleash a campaign of reviews against his business. Both local and national.


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## ZenHerper (Jan 23, 2021)

((((((vibes))))))


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## ZEROPILOT (Jan 23, 2021)

ZenHerper said:


> ((((((vibes))))))


Mind you.
I expect him to pay for my vet bill. And I'll deal with it for future visits.
This was a $440 lizard.
(I know)


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## Tom (Jan 23, 2021)

ZEROPILOT said:


> It's a reptile shop with a VERY arrogant owner. The same owner that sold me the younger female as a male.
> NOT UNDERGROUND REPTILES
> He has coiled CFL uvb lamps and I also suspect was cheap on the dusting. (My bad for not looking closer at him before purchase)
> YOUTUBE videos show him feeding that same Chameleon (he has a distinctive scar and a VOHEMAR is unusual in general) from several months ago. So this happened on HIS watch.
> ...


What a d***.

I hope your negative reviews either make him straighten up and do a better job, or lose his business.


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## ZEROPILOT (Jan 23, 2021)

Tom said:


> What a d***.
> 
> I hope your negative reviews either make him straighten up and do a better job, or lose his business.


The whole thing makes me sick.
Thanks.


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## Chefdenoel10 (Jan 23, 2021)

ZEROPILOT said:


> Dozens
> Hundreds
> But I shared with him all of the results and the x ray via Email and FB messenger.
> What he does with that information?
> ...



most of them just throw away your emails and say “whatever” .
It’s all about the $$$$$$$$$$$$
I don’t know if a ONE cares about the animal...
Do you really think after so many years his store has been there that when one day YOU walk in and tell him he’s doing it wrong he’s just gonna change???
I wish I didn’t have to say that but...
I had to. 
I am so tired of ignorance about animals in “PET “ stores...
It’s just cruel!
And I can’t rescue them all!!!
If I had a farm I would have everything from 
Ant eater to Zebra!!!!
These animals CAN NOT SPEAK!
A tortoise can’t even “moan” when in pain!
(I mean even a cat or dog wimpers when in pain...) but a tortoise , a lizard, a snake, a hedge hog, a gecko THEY ALL HAVE NO SOUND TO SCREAM IN PAIN OR FRUSTRATION!! It isn’t fair!
It JUST ISNT FAIR!!!!
I hope God brings ALL OF US back one day as ANIMALS!
THEN AND ONLY THEN WILL WE TRULY UNDERSTAND......??? 

sorry I went off like that... I just felt his pain.
(Your beautiful lizard) what’s his name again?


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## ZEROPILOT (Jan 23, 2021)

Chefdenoel10 said:


> most of them just throw away your emails and say “whatever” .
> It’s all about the $$$$$$$$$$$$
> I don’t know if a ONE cares about the animal...
> Do you really think after so many years his store has been there that when one day YOU walk in and tell him he’s doing it wrong he’s just gonna change???
> ...


His name is NO NAME.
Although I'm leaning towards calling him number 3 since his residency is cage #3.
The vast majority of my animals have no names.
He is now spending an hour outside each day in a sunny spot.
Part of his recovery regime


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## ZEROPILOT (Jan 23, 2021)

The owner contacted me.
Said he's away at his sons soccer tournament and wants to discuss the situation next week.


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## Chefdenoel10 (Jan 23, 2021)

ZEROPILOT said:


> His name is NO NAME.
> Although I'm leaning towards calling him number 3 since his residency is cage #3.
> The vast majority of my animals have no names.
> He is now spending an hour outside each day in a sunny spot.
> Part of his recovery regime



you made me both happy and sad all in one post???
Happy he is getting sun  
But sad ge has no name.
Can I call him ....?......”Jimmy”? ?
Or some name that exudes strength ???
Please keep me posted on his recovery 
I seem to have fallen in love with him .
And now that I know he is ....well... sick..
I kinda love him EVEN MORE!!!!!! ?


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## wellington (Jan 23, 2021)

Wow so sorry. Was hoping for better news. Keep after the store owner though. If he doesn't do right by you and the remaining animals, let us know. I will help make this guys life miserable like he does his animals. 
Good luck on the rehab. Keep us posted.


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## Chefdenoel10 (Jan 24, 2021)

wellington said:


> Wow so sorry. Was hoping for better news. Keep after the store owner though. If he doesn't do right by you and the remaining animals, let us know. I will help make this guys life miserable like he does his animals.
> Good luck on the rehab. Keep us posted.



Thank you Mr. Wellington! ??


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## wellington (Jan 24, 2021)

Chefdenoel10 said:


> Thank you Mr. Wellington! ??


Lol Mrs. Not Mr.
And actually it's not my name at all. A street I used to live on
Common mistake so many have made, not a big deal.


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## Chefdenoel10 (Jan 24, 2021)

wellington said:


> Lol Mrs. Not Mr.
> And actually it's not my name at all. A street I used to live on
> Common mistake so many have made, not a big deal.



my deepest apologies my friend...
Thank you MRS. Wellington! ?
Anyone who is willing to kick butt for animals gets my total respect.
Thank you ma’am for your post ?


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## wellington (Jan 24, 2021)

Chefdenoel10 said:


> my deepest apologies my friend...
> Thank you MRS. Wellington! ?
> Anyone who is willing to kick butt for animals gets my total respect.
> Thank you ma’am for your post ?


No apologies needed. Thank you. I will always fight for animals.


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## MNGuy (Jan 25, 2021)

ZEROPILOT said:


> Dozens
> Hundreds
> But I shared with him all of the results and the x ray via Email and FB messenger.
> What he does with that information?
> ...



You should report the business to the local Better Business Bureau; your state Attorney General's Office, which deals with consumer protection issues, and any state offices (Department of Agriculture?) that may have oversight of the sale of live animals.

Some may say they can't do anything about one case unless there's a trend, but at least you can get a paper trail started in the likely event that other people complain in the future, or, so people can search for the business and find your review or complaint if it's sustained.

Our local BBB allows you to leave reviews for businesses on the BBB website.

Good luck.


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## ZEROPILOT (Jan 25, 2021)

While this is obviously too soon to suppose the liquid calcium is already doing anything.
I'm happy to say that this morning. He actually ran over to his feeder cup, hung upside down and ate most of his insects. One after another. Then proceeded to drink some water.
I've never seen that much deliberate activity yet.
It makes me very optimistic


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## ZEROPILOT (Jan 28, 2021)

I've been administering his liquid calcium by 
A) Taking advantage of his agression and dropping it in his mouth when he does a threat display with open mouth.
OR
B) Gently parting his lips and gently squirting it past his teeth.
Since his bones are so brittle, I handle him like he's made of glass. I certainly don't want to attempt to pry his mouth open.

Well, I learned something new. If I just apply that liquid to his lips. And it is literally one drop. He licks his lips and ingests it.
What a time saver. And so much less stressful for us both.
This would work NOT if a larger dose was required. But this should get me through the next couple months.
His tail is still black. From that blood draw. And he is continuing to act relatively normally.


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## Chefdenoel10 (Jan 28, 2021)

ZEROPILOT said:


> I've been administering his liquid calcium by
> A) Taking advantage of his agression and dropping it in his mouth when he does a threat display with open mouth.
> OR
> B) Gently parting his lips and gently squirting it past his teeth.
> ...



That is soooo great!!!
I wish I had it so simple.!
My big sulcata da* near takes my fingers off while i try to give her a Syringe of meds
(For pain trying to pass a bladder stone)
But I found a perfect time of when she is yawning ?! It works perfectly!
Two doses left!! Thank God!
I am still gonna keep checking up on him (and you) for more slow but successful hurdles. Wishing you much successs my friend! And of course ... prayers. ??????????????????????


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## ZEROPILOT (Feb 1, 2021)

I've reached a dead end with the business that sold me this sick little guy.
So I've exposed them.
THE JUNGLE FLORIDA in Deerfield Beach Florida 
They now have their very own post of shame in the vendors reviews section.
Screw them.


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## TeamZissou (Feb 1, 2021)

Why did you have to pay an extra $100 when you took back the "male" that was actually a female? Shouldn't it have been a straight exchange?


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## ZEROPILOT (Feb 1, 2021)

TeamZissou said:


> Why did you have to pay an extra $100 when you took back the "male" that was actually a female? Shouldn't it have been a straight exchange?


This one is about 50% larger.
I didn't argue.
I probably should have.


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## Chefdenoel10 (Feb 1, 2021)

ZEROPILOT said:


> This one is about 50% larger.
> I didn't argue.
> I probably should have.



wait..... this IS “Jimmy” right?
What was wrong with the other one??


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## ZEROPILOT (Feb 1, 2021)

Chefdenoel10 said:


> wait..... this IS “Jimmy” right?
> What was wrong with the other one??


It wasn't a male.
I should've had a clue about this shop when they couldn't tell a male from a female.


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## Chefdenoel10 (Feb 1, 2021)

ZEROPILOT said:


> It wasn't a male.
> I should've had a clue about this shop when they couldn't tell a male from a female.



couldnt you have kept them both?

now the other one is alone at that stupid mans store.. ?
Can two lizards live in the same “tank”??


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## ZEROPILOT (Feb 1, 2021)

Chefdenoel10 said:


> couldnt you have kept them both?
> 
> now the other one is alone at that stupid mans store.. ?
> Can two lizards live in the same “tank”??


It stresses them out. But he has 3 babies in one enclosure


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## ZEROPILOT (Feb 3, 2021)

Patient ZERO has been putting on weight


The last half of his tail is still black from the blood draw.
But he's using it just fine.


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## Maggie3fan (Feb 3, 2021)

wellington said:


> Sure hope it's not.
> Don't know who the vet is. What is the tv fame?


Dr K


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## Maggie3fan (Feb 3, 2021)

Chefdenoel10 said:


> most of them just throw away your emails and say “whatever” .
> It’s all about the $$$$$$$$$$$$
> I don’t know if a ONE cares about the animal...
> Do you really think after so many years his store has been there that when one day YOU walk in and tell him he’s doing it wrong he’s just gonna change???
> ...


Believe me...tortoises* DO MOAN* in pain...


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## ZEROPILOT (Feb 3, 2021)

maggie3fan said:


> Dr K


Dr Ks pet hospital.
Yes.
But Dr. Pardini is the actual vet that has been treating him.
She's a very pretty and very knowledgeable doctor from Brazil that LOVES Redfoot tortoises.
I'll be asking for her by name in the future for assistance with my RF group.


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## ZEROPILOT (Feb 3, 2021)

By the way, the MBD and the male that I originally bought...That ended up being female, were both caught by the helpful members of the @CHAMELEONFORUM.COM
Another great group that is almost as helpful for lizard keeping as the forum is for turtle and tortoise keeping.


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## Chefdenoel10 (Feb 3, 2021)

ZEROPILOT said:


> Patient ZERO has been putting on weight
> View attachment 317160
> 
> The last half of his tail is still black from the blood draw.
> But he's using it just fine.



HE IS JUST SOOOO GORGEOUS!!!
I can’t stand it!!!!
What beautiful colors!!!
And THAT FACE!!!!! ??
Keep up the FANTASTIC CARE!
HE’S GONNA BE JUST FIIIINNNNEEEE!!! 
??? kisses to you “JIMMY!” .....
I mean .... ZERO. ?


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## Chefdenoel10 (Feb 3, 2021)

ZEROPILOT said:


> Dr Ks pet hospital.
> Yes.
> But Dr. Pardini is the actual vet that has been treating him.
> She's a very pretty and very knowledgeable doctor from Brazil that LOVES Redfoot tortoises.
> I'll be asking for her by name in the future for assistance with my RF group.



If it’s the one with the heavy accent on the show, I think I know who she is AND SHE IS FANTASTIC! She REALLY knows her stuff. She is one of my favorites now!


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## ZEROPILOT (Feb 3, 2021)

Chefdenoel10 said:


> If it’s the one with the heavy accent on the show, I think I know who she is AND SHE IS FANTASTIC! She REALLY knows her stuff. She is one of my favorites now!


Mine too.
Yes. She has an accent. But that is very common down here


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## TeamZissou (Feb 5, 2021)

Here's some chameleon news for you:









'Smallest reptile on earth' discovered in Madagascar


The male Brookesia nana, or nano-chameleon, was discovered on Madagascar and is the size of a seed.



www.bbc.com





Thing is tiny!


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## ZEROPILOT (Feb 5, 2021)

TeamZissou said:


> Here's some chameleon news for you:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I saw that article 
That'd be hard to spot in the wild


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## TeamZissou (Feb 5, 2021)

ZEROPILOT said:


> I saw that article
> That'd be hard to spot in the wild



If you based the cost of one of these on the size-based system used by the shady guy that you bought the MBD chameleon from, it would only cost pennies! More likely, there's a size inflection point where the smaller you go, the more costly they would be. I imagine this would be the case.


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## ZEROPILOT (Feb 5, 2021)

TeamZissou said:


> If you based the cost of one of these on the size-based system used by the shady guy that you bought the MBD chameleon from, it would only cost pennies! More likely, there's a size inflection point where the smaller you go, the more costly they would be. I imagine this would be the case.


I kept some fishes called FLOWERHORN CICHLIDS.
As they grew, they showed different color morphs until you could get to the size that you could just make out if it would grow to be very colorful. Or a male or a female. And at that size and up the price grew by hundreds of not thousands of dollars.
It's also about that size when they start killing each other. So you end up with 300 fish tanks and just a few premium fish.
As for Chameleons, I do not get it.


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## Chefdenoel10 (Feb 5, 2021)

ZEROPILOT said:


> I kept some fishes called FLOWERHORN CICHLIDS.
> As they grew, they showed different color morphs until you could get to the size that you could just make out if it would grow to be very colorful. Or a male or a female. And at that size and up the price grew by hundreds of not thousands of dollars.
> It's also about that size when they start killing each other. So you end up with 300 fish tanks and just a few premium fish.
> As for Chameleons, I do not get it.



well... I have to add my two cents to this conversation.....


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## ZEROPILOT (Feb 5, 2021)

Chefdenoel10 said:


> well... I have to add my two cents to this conversation.....
> View attachment 317337
> View attachment 317337
> View attachment 317341


They fell.
They were stunned.
But very few died.
I'm happy to report that most of the iguanas around here bounced right back as of this morning.


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## ZEROPILOT (Feb 12, 2021)

The little Panther is eating very well. He's also more and more active. And showing more color, which I'm assuming means he's more comfortable. And in less pain.
I'm hoping that the follow up X Ray's will confirm the increase in bone density to go along with his outward improvements.
I'm not handling him at all since he opens his mouth each time I need to administer his Calcium drops. So the risk of broken bones would be minimized.
He's also become very stable on his vines and perches.
I've been sprinkling Bee Pollen as well as D3 fortified Calcium on his feeders twice a week. Calcium without D3 every day. (My other chams get +D3 once every 10 days to 2 weeks)
The UVB level is steady at 3.0. And his poops look great.
I've also added dusted waxworms to gain some weight.
Stopping MBD takes months. But I'm very pleased with the speed of his mobility, food targeting and stability gains.


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## ZenHerper (Feb 12, 2021)

Great job! Such a fragile species.


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## ZEROPILOT (Feb 12, 2021)

ZenHerper said:


> Great job! Such a fragile species.


This is all new to me. And hopefully the last time I'll have to deal with a sickly izard.
And yes. Even if you do everything correct. They are still very difficult to keep.
Some of them like Jacksons are almost impossible for me because of the required night time drop in temperature into the lower 60s.
Panther and Veiled are much easier to keep. But that doesn't make them easy to keep.
Their requirements are very specialized. The equipment is extensive and complex. I don't know why I ever decided to keep them again.


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## ZEROPILOT (Feb 27, 2021)

Here's the patient after several weeks of medication and correct feeding and lighting.
His tail is still dark from the last blood draw.
I'll be getting a follow up xray soon to compare the bone density improvement.


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## Chefdenoel10 (Feb 27, 2021)

ZEROPILOT said:


> Here's the patient after several weeks of medication and correct feeding and lighting.
> His tail is still dark from the last blood draw.
> I'll be getting a follow up xray soon to compare the bone density improvement.
> View attachment 319493



There he is!!!!!
There’s my little sweet boy!!!!!
(I mean the LIZARD !? Zeropilot, don’t get your hopes up..you may be nice too but your wife would kill me for lookin’!!!) 
I don’t know if I have ever loved a lizard so much in all my life??
Sooo good to see you Jimmy!!
Hope your X-rays come out perfect!!
Keep growing!
Your Dad is doing an AWSOME job!!!!
Kisses from far away!! ????
(Again, FOR THE LIZARD!) ??


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## ZEROPILOT (Feb 27, 2021)

It's true that I am extremely dedicated to my animals. But I don't think I love any of them.
Except my dog.
But she's family


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## Chefdenoel10 (Feb 27, 2021)

ZEROPILOT said:


> It's true that I am extremely dedicated to my animals. But I don't think I love any of them.
> Except my dog.
> But she's family
> View attachment 319515



How can they not ALL be family????
If they’re in the house at dinner time...
THATS FAMILY! ?
If you take care of them... THATS FAMILY!
If you spend all that money on cages and lights and plant-like hanggy things....
THAYS FAMILY!!!
If you get bitten by one of them....
THATS .....LUNCH! ?
Can’t believe you made me say that!!! ?
Listen!.. Jimmy is FAMILY!
Love the dog but Jimmy has got “something”.? Spunk?, Charisma?, HE CAN CHANGE COLORS ANY TIME?
What more would you want from a FAMILY member????
And....uuummm... why can the doggie do?
????

(If you say she can change colors, I’m comin’ over to see that one!)


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## Blackdog1714 (Feb 28, 2021)

Easy equation- Family = Love but does not equal Like. Real Friends become Family because we like them first then grow to Love them Like Family, but as you mature you learn that some of your Family you do not like!


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## ZEROPILOT (Feb 28, 2021)

Blackdog1714 said:


> Easy equation- Family = Love but does not equal Like. Real Friends become Family because we like them first then grow to Love them Like Family, but as you mature you learn that some of your Family you do not like!


I can't stand the great majority of my family, actually


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## Blackdog1714 (Feb 28, 2021)

ZEROPILOT said:


> I can't stand the great majority of my family, actually


That is because you matured and discovered there shenanigans were not actually fun and cheeky. I do better with two mountain ranges in between me and mine


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## ZEROPILOT (Mar 11, 2021)

We have an appointment for next Wednesday the 17th at 10:30 to see Dr. Pardini at BROWARD AVIAN AND EXOTIC.
Hopefully the new Xrays and bloodwork will show a substantial improvement. But ANY improvement would be great as far as I'm concerned


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## Mrs.Jennifer (Mar 11, 2021)

ZEROPILOT said:


> We have an appointment for next Wednesday the 17th at 10:30 to see Dr. Pardini at BROWARD AVIAN AND EXOTIC.
> Hopefully the new Xrays and bloodwork will show a substantial improvement. But ANY improvement would be great as far as I'm concerned


You have been so attentive and diligent that I can’t imagine there wouldn’t be improvement. Good luck!


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## ZEROPILOT (Mar 13, 2021)

With improved health comes improved strength and more attitude.
He's downright anti social.
I tried to get a photo of him showing orange and purple. But he turned green and then brown as I photographed him.


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## ZEROPILOT (Mar 17, 2021)

Dr.Pardini days that his bones have made an 85% improvement!
3 more months of treatment and he can live a relatively normal life.
His bone density is greatly improved.
But the curved leg bones will never straighten.
Fortunately he can around just fine


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## ZenHerper (Mar 17, 2021)

Well done. Proof-positive that the husbandry before you came on the scene was the problem.


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## Mrs.Jennifer (Mar 17, 2021)

ZEROPILOT said:


> Dr.Pardini days that his bones have made an 85% improvement!
> 3 more months of treatment and he can live a relatively normal life.
> His bone density is greatly improved.
> But the curved leg bones will never straighten.
> ...


I was sure that you would make a difference!


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## Ink (Mar 17, 2021)

OMG! I love that show. Great job. Especially for them to say it.


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## ZEROPILOT (Mar 17, 2021)

Dr. Kelleher saved my Redfoot Queen Bertha. This is my first experience with Dr. Pardini. And I've got to say that she is wonderful.
I'm very happy to say that he will most definitely survive!
His new tentative name is NUMBER THREE.
(Elevated status)


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## ZEROPILOT (Mar 17, 2021)

Mrs.Jennifer said:


> I was sure that you would make a difference!


Thanks. 
I always try.


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## jsheffield (Mar 17, 2021)

That's fantastic news!

Jamie


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## Jan A (Mar 17, 2021)

ZEROPILOT said:


> Dr.Pardini days that his bones have made an 85% improvement!
> 3 more months of treatment and he can live a relatively normal life.
> His bone density is greatly improved.
> But the curved leg bones will never straighten.
> ...


Impressive job! Well done!


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## Chefdenoel10 (Mar 17, 2021)

ZEROPILOT said:


> Dr.Pardini days that his bones have made an 85% improvement!
> 3 more months of treatment and he can live a relatively normal life.
> His bone density is greatly improved.
> But the curved leg bones will never straighten.
> ...



SSEEEEEEE!!!!!!
YOU ARE A GREAT DAD!!!!!
85%? That’s AWESOME!!!!
Great job!!!
Yaaaaayyyyyy!!!!!!
Jimmy is gonna be fine now!!
I LOVE Dr. Pelagrini. 
I just watched Dr.K ALL last Sunday..
And she was on.
She really knows her stuff!!!
Glad she is Jimmy’s doctor.
Any color change pictures again?
Or will he just stay brown and green for the camera? He is soooo modest. ?
Aaawwwww..... I am just sooooo happy for you both!!!!! 
???????????????

GO JIMMY!!!!!!!


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## Chefdenoel10 (Mar 17, 2021)

ZEROPILOT said:


> Dr. Kelleher saved my Redfoot Queen Bertha. This is my first experience with Dr. Pardini. And I've got to say that she is wonderful.
> I'm very happy to say that he will most definitely survive!
> His new tentative name is NUMBER THREE.
> (Elevated status)



Nope!! Don’t listen to him folks!!!
His name is Jimmy!!! ??


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## ZEROPILOT (Mar 17, 2021)

Chefdenoel10 said:


> SSEEEEEEE!!!!!!
> YOU ARE A GREAT DAD!!!!!
> 85%? That’s AWESOME!!!!
> Great job!!!
> ...


I'll see if he feels like photos tomorrow.
He's pretty p!ssed off at me. Too much handling and poking today.


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## Chefdenoel10 (Mar 18, 2021)

ZEROPILOT said:


> I'll see if he feels like photos tomorrow.
> He's pretty p!ssed off at me. Too much handling and poking today.




No rush on pictures.
Sorry to hear he is p.o.’d at you ....FOR SAVING HIS LIFE! 
Don’t worry he will appreciate you later.
If/when he is mad can he bite?
Does it hurt?
I know what your going to say but I ask because lizards mouths don’t look like they can draw blood..?
Now my Sulcata doesn’t even have a BIG mouth but when or shall I say “IF” she gets the chance to chomp on a finger....
Man! It feels like you have been bitten by a SHARK ?!!!! Blood everywhere ...
and then has the audacity to look at ME as if to say..
“ well? That’s what ya git fir puttin’ yer hand so darn close! “....
(mumbles under her breath)...”stupid a**”
and then shoots ME with a side eye ?!
??


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## ZEROPILOT (Mar 18, 2021)

Chefdenoel10 said:


> No rush on pictures.
> Sorry to hear he is p.o.’d at you ....FOR SAVING HIS LIFE!
> Don’t worry he will appreciate you later.
> If/when he is mad can he bite?
> ...


He's bitten me a few times. But it's only a threat.
They can bite much harder. And they do have teeth.
Chameleons aren't a friendly type of pet.
The trick is to let them see your hand and see if they will walk into your arm. If you try to grab them from above it sets of an instinctual reaction. You're viewed as a predator


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## Chefdenoel10 (Mar 19, 2021)

ZEROPILOT said:


> He's bitten me a few times. But it's only a threat.
> They can bite much harder. And they do have teeth.
> Chameleons aren't a friendly type of pet.
> The trick is to let them see your hand and see if they will walk into your arm. If you try to grab them from above it sets of an instinctual reaction. You're viewed as a predator



Oooohhhhh! I never knew they had teeth! ?
Wow. How interesting...
On Dr.K they hang all over their owners...?
Then again..... ?..... that is a TAPED show.
Where they can “edit” the attacks,beatings,and most unruly pet behavior in a flash....
Good to know ....


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## ZEROPILOT (Mar 19, 2021)

Chefdenoel10 said:


> Oooohhhhh! I never knew they had teeth! ?
> Wow. How interesting...
> On Dr.K they hang all over their owners...?
> Then again..... ?..... that is a TAPED show.
> ...


No.
Some Chameleon owners spend a lot of time interacting with their animals and they seem to enjoy climbing out for a while like it's some sort of normal behavior.
I find it unnatural and unnecessary.
I don't interact with any of my REPTILES that way.
It's all about what the keeper wants from the animal. Not what the animal wants.
I care just about what my animals want.
My dog loves to be with me.
My fish and my REPTILES don't.


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## Blackdog1714 (Mar 19, 2021)

ZEROPILOT said:


> No.
> Some Chameleon owners spend a lot of time interacting with their animals and they seem to enjoy climbing out for a while like it's some sort of normal behavior.
> I find it unnatural and unnecessary.
> I don't interact with any of my REPTILES that way.
> ...


Just imagine they are like some people. Hug me without knowing me gets you smacked!


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## ZEROPILOT (Mar 23, 2021)

This close up shows how very bent his arm bones are. Not just bent. But twisted almost 180°.
Now permanently bent that way.
This is a 2 ounce lizard.
Now imagine a 10 pound tortoise attempting to live with these bones.
And how desperately ill a tortoise would have to be for us to be able to notice it.
It would almost certainly be a death sentence


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## ZEROPILOT (Mar 24, 2021)

He's feeling well enough to scarf up a SUPERWORM nearly half his length


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## ZenHerper (Mar 24, 2021)

Outstanding.


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## Chefdenoel10 (Mar 24, 2021)

ZEROPILOT said:


> He's feeling well enough to scarf up a SUPERWORM nearly half his length



Fantastic!!!!
Seems like he is loving his new life.
Way to go Zeropilot! 
Keep the pictures coming!! 
(Of all of your animals too.)


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## ZEROPILOT (Jul 1, 2021)

It's been about 6 months and he has continued to grow strong.
In fact, he's a pretty agile and active grumpy little man.
He spends a few days a week outside now on my lime tree and is as normal as he will ever be.
His special medication and care are over.
I'm going to officially close this thread. 
Thank you for your interest.


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## ZEROPILOT (Jul 1, 2021)

Chefdenoel10 said:


> Oooohhhhh! I never knew they had teeth! ?
> Wow. How interesting...
> On Dr.K they hang all over their owners...?
> Then again..... ?..... that is a TAPED show.
> ...


My adult Veileds are large. One is about 20".
With him, it's actually his claws and the strength of his fingers that make him uncomfortable to handle. He draws blood almost right away.
And my other 2 bite.
One way or another. For me, handling them is only when necessary.


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## Chefdenoel10 (Jul 1, 2021)

ZEROPILOT said:


> My adult Veileds are large. One is about 20".
> With him, it's actually his claws and the strength of his fingers that make him uncomfortable to handle. He draws blood almost right away.
> And my other 2 bite.
> One way or another. For me, handling them is only when necessary.





ZEROPILOT said:


> My adult Veileds are large. One is about 20".
> With him, it's actually his claws and the strength of his fingers that make him uncomfortable to handle. He draws blood almost right away.
> And my other 2 bite.
> One way or another. For me, handling them is only when necessary.



Zeropilot,
Could you post a couple of more pictures before you close this thread?? ?


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## ZEROPILOT (Nov 4, 2021)

An unfortunate update.
Last week, this Panther fell off of a branch.
X Ray's confirmed two fractured legs.
We chose to euthanize him.
It was the MBD that ended up taking his life.
Please make sure that your REPTILES have access to correct UVB and a high quality diet.
Thank you to everyone that read this thread.


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## Chubbs the tegu (Nov 4, 2021)

ZEROPILOT said:


> An unfortunate update.
> Last week, this Panther fell off of a branch.
> X Ray's confirmed two fractured legs.
> We chose to euthanize him.
> ...


Sorry to hear this man.. I know u did everything u could to help the lil guy


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## ZEROPILOT (Nov 4, 2021)

Chubbs the tegu said:


> Sorry to hear this man.. I know u did everything u could to help the lil guy


Thanks Chubbs.
It sucks.
We tried our best.


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## Chubbs the tegu (Nov 4, 2021)

ZEROPILOT said:


> Thanks Chubbs.
> It sucks.
> We tried our best.


He couldnt have been in better hands bro.


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## Jan A (Nov 4, 2021)

ZEROPILOT said:


> Thanks Chubbs.
> It sucks.
> We tried our best.


So sorry. I know how hard you worked to make his life better. It truly sucks.


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## TeamZissou (Nov 4, 2021)

Bummer! 

So you had been treating him for about 10 months? What type of time horizon would have been needed to fully overcome the MBD, if at all?


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## Mrs.Jennifer (Nov 4, 2021)

ZEROPILOT said:


> An unfortunate update.
> Last week, this Panther fell off of a branch.
> X Ray's confirmed two fractured legs.
> We chose to euthanize him.
> ...


I am so sorry to hear this. I know how hard you tried to remedy the poor start it got. Please know that I learned a great deal from your thread/postings.


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## ZEROPILOT (Nov 4, 2021)

TeamZissou said:


> Bummer!
> 
> So you had been treating him for about 10 months? What type of time horizon would have been needed to fully overcome the MBD, if at all?


Unknown.
However, I was told that he had didn't need anymore oral meds back in August, I believe.
He was officially done with vet care.
However, I still returned every few months for a follow up.


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## ZEROPILOT (Nov 4, 2021)

Mrs.Jennifer said:


> I am so sorry to hear this. I know how hard you tried to remedy the poor start it got. Please know that I learned a great deal from your thread/postings.


Very nice to hear.


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