# Chambers, my take of the idea



## Kapidolo Farms

So I see the chamber concept keeps popping up, over and over again.

My interpretation of it is here with pictures and explanation. I use them as a 'grow-out' husbandry technique. I have contemplated putting windows in the side, but then again, if I keep that humidity up, the window will always have condensation, so for me it was a 'why bother' end result, I did not put windows in.

When I worked at the Fresno Chaffee Zoo, all the exhibit animals were kept in chambers with an active airflow, which ran through a small HVAC system, pretty much designed to each animals niche in the wild. Costs a great deal of money, but they all had windows.

This idea of airflow was cause for concern when I was first reading about it from the writing of DeanS and Tom _et al_ here on TFO, but some conversation lead me to realize they open them up and they 'air out' everyday.

This first image is the chamber closed. It is 54 gallon Rubbermaid tote ($19.95) at Home Depot, less a few times a year when on sale.



Not much to look at, but very functional and inexpensive.

This is one with the five ever bigger leopards in it.



And this one with the very small Manouria emy phayeri.



What the two chamber have in common,

Small orchid bark substrate (about 1 cubic foot, $2.00 worth).
Plastic plant tray (about $2.00) filled with gravel and oyster shell ($1.00 total).
A piece of slate or tile for food ($3.00).
Another small plastic box ($4.00) also filled with orchid bark, for the super high humidity even when the top is open.
A half length of stucco wire frame ($2.50) to mount the lighting on.
One or two 22.5 inch T5 HO fixtures ($23.00 each), when I use two of these fixture one has a ZooMed 5.0 T5 HO tube (($13.00 when bought in case lots) and one BlueMax or standard grow tube with high blue component of the light ( Blue Max $3.00 each in case lots, or free 'plant light' with the fixture). One small aluminum reflector ($7.95 at Home Depot) and a 50 watt or 75 Watt infrared heat bulb (about $5.00 when bought in case lots and free shipping).

In the Manouria chamber you will see their soaking pan on top of the smaller super humidity chamber, so the temp is good, and it is open water for higher humidity, put back clean everyday so to be ready tomorrow. The leopards are now too big, so their soak water is just room temp, prepared the day before.

Upon close scrutiny of the images you will see that the humidity is so high the water is condensed on the chamber wall. But that is not really an indication of 100% RH, it is a sweat like a glass of water with ice at a picnic, it is just water coming out of the air, as the outside air temperature is different than inside. The inside of the inner box also sweats, but not it's outside. 

The heat lamp is directed to the plastic plant tray, so that there is a dark surface to absorb heat and create humidity in the whole chamber. The little black specs are activated carbon like what is used for aquarium filters to help keep it "sweet" inside.

The leopards destroy plants in less than a few days, so for now they do not have one, the Manouria like to sit with one of the growing runners on their back, when they sit out.

All of them spend most of their time in the inner box, where the humidity is about 85 to 95% RH. The area outside that inner chamber really only stays at about 65 to 70% RH. The lower end temp is 79 to 80 F, while right under the bull's eye of the heat lamp gets to about 105 to 110 F.

The temp inside the inner box stays in the upper 80'sF, that is why the red infra red heat lamp is angled towards it.

Over all each chamber costs under $100.00 even if with two T5 HO fixtures.

The overall point of the post is to show a low cost highly controllable chamber. The temperature gauge is a ZooMed with probe for about $7.00. I have found for probe thermometers, they work well and are not so expensive. It is placed so it dangles about three inches from the infra red lamp's bullseye. I use another thermometer as far away as possible inside to get the cool end temp. That is a $1.99 Acurite from WalMart. The Acurite that holds a high/low for 24 hours fail in these chambers, I think because of the humidity.

The reason I have these set up this way is for quick and easy maintenance. Like I said, these are for grow-out, then sale. My academic agriculture background is lurking with these set-ups.

Will


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## Team Gomberg

I like it Will, thanks for sharing.

I converted a glass tank into a closed chamber (working on a second one now) and the condensation is always on the glass effecting my view to the inside. I still like it, but good call on skipping the windows in yours.


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## Neal

I use these same types of tubs from time to time, but couldn't figure out how to keep the lid on with all the light fixtures and things that I would need. 

Do you run your red heat bulb with a thermostat, or is it on 24/7? These tubs look like they are inside of your house, so I assume the surrounding temperature is in the mid 70's or so? Do you use any other heating elements?


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## Kapidolo Farms

Glad you liked the info Heather,

Neal, I use the molded holes in the handle to get electrical cords in, and then if I think I need to, I cover them with duct tape. That stucco corner wire frame is a great strut to suspend the light and gauges from, very strong stuff, already made and inexpensive. I had a part time job at a Home Depot for a few years and learned the whole store's stock well. The best customers (for fun) were those looking for not 'out of the box' stuff to build something, DIY'ers I guess.

I'm in an apartment, and so all are inside, except when they have outside time on the balcony. The temp in the apartment is the outside temp moderated by the building. We have many windows open all the time day and night. I close the window in the room with the animals when the outside temp is less than 68F. I'm in the Mira Mesa area of San Diego, and it is pretty much perfect temp all the time. I think we have had on night below 50F and one day above 90F, so the chambers are on their own. I don't use thermostats. I monitor frequently. Max temp will go too high when the room temp exceeds about 88F, and the low is regulated by the window in the room. Default building temp seems to be about 72F.

So 24/7 is a default mode to run the heat lamps, but with a daily look-see at local climate. Winter time I tend to use more 75 watt infra reds, summer just 50 watt, winter 24/7, summer when the room temp is below 88F, which is more or less always.

When I monitored environmental parameters of an expensive vineyard there were all kinds of 'automatic' things outside, but frankly I don't trust them. I did not loose a crop on my watch. Even bridge crew on high-tech vehicles, air or sea, still keep one foot of their accompaniment with the paper/pencil skills or slide rule, all non-electronic "just in case".

All those gadgets are good for extended away time, but I would rather trust my own follow-up than a 'device'.

Here are two images of that stucco frame and the way the wires are handled (that's sorta a pun). I use black pull ties, they don't degrade with UV. The little clips come with the light. I erred with costs, I also use the reflector for those fixtures, about $15.00, as they make more of it go down, and when you hold the light up and look directly at it, the unpleasant effect of too bright at the tube itself is reduced- diffused. I use Sunblaster brand T5 HO fixtures, they also come in four foot (46.5 inch) lengths.





Will


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## mikeh

Will,
One solution for installing a window on top and avoiding the condensation could be snaking low wattage heat rope along the inside of plexi. This should heat up the plexi, equalize surface temp and keep condensation of the surface. 
If the plexi is placed on the side wall you could drill small holes along the top of plexi, spaced about and inch apart. This will pull cooler fresh air down along the inside of plexi clearing few inches of condensation. Exhaust will be needed above the hottest part of the bin for circulation to take effect (few holes above the inftared). This can also be your fresh air exchange. 

Two different methods, each has to be played with to achieve desired results.

I played with both methods, will be using method two in next few day.
Mike

sent from mobile device using TFO app


One drawback to plexi in this application, it will flex good amount, especially thinner gauge

sent from mobile device using TFO app


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## Kapidolo Farms

Yeah, good ideas. I'm OK with opening the lid to see.

Will


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## Neal

Will, I came back to this thread looking for ideas and zoomed in on your pictures this time. Looking at the one with the leopard in it, it looks like there is a significant amount of standing water inside the tub. Are my eyes seeing this correctly? I've heard of keeping them in swamp like conditions, but from the picture, it looks like they're living like fish.  Your results speak for themselves, so obviously it works well for you. I was just curious if you keep the standing water in there at all times?


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## tortadise

Fantastic Will. I wonder if at all. Is there a way to test the water quality or mineral levels in the water. I have never seen, until now the oyster shells used in water basins. Great idea for sure.


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## Kapidolo Farms

Neal said:


> Will, I came back to this thread looking for ideas and zoomed in on your pictures this time. Looking at the one with the leopard in it, it looks like there is a significant amount of standing water inside the tub. Are my eyes seeing this correctly? I've heard of keeping them in swamp like conditions, but from the picture, it looks like they're living like fish.  Your results speak for themselves, so obviously it works well for you. I was just curious if you keep the standing water in there at all times?



Hi Neal,

I see this question in this thread is long overdue.

I have put bulkhead fittings in, so they can bottom drain. I will now flush a few gallons through when the accumulated condensation indicates that the substrate is getting "swampy".

More fully explained in this thread http://tortoiseforum.org/thread-81096.html

Will


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## sibi

Will, what an excellent thread! Although my sullies are too large for a closed chamber now, this gives members the ability to give the very best start for their babies at a cost that's doable for almost anyone. The others comments are a bonus plus. This thread was long overdue. Thanks!


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## Kapidolo Farms

I have a plan "B" for the chambers that had to go back to floor level. Wet/Dry vacuum. I have an old 2.5 gallon craftsmen wet/dry vac with a small attachment at the end of the hose, that makes the suction area small. This attachment can be removed and easily sanitized from one enclosure to another in just a few minutes, so I am able to maintain my bio-security plan.

If I had the giant chamber such as what Tom, and many others, have illustrated I imagine a roll-around wet dry would do well for those much larger chambers.

For the small ones I have, I keep them on a slight tilt to one end, so the water runs to one low spot.

Will


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## N2TORTS

I will guarantee you living in a plastic tub ,is much like serving time in a 6x6 cell. What ever fancy gizmoâ€™s you would like to add to it or high tech lingo changes nothing for the tortoise.


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## Kapidolo Farms

N2TORTS said:


> I will guarantee you living in a plastic tub ,is much like serving time in a 6x6 cell. What ever fancy gizmoâ€™s you would like to add to it or high tech lingo changes nothing for the tortoise.



http://tortoiseforum.org/thread-80588.html

It is good to have your learned point of view on this topic. BTW, I see 12 little guys living to good life. Will


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## babytortie

Will said:


> So I see the chamber concept keeps popping up, over and over again.
> 
> Upon close scrutiny of the images you will see that the humidity is so high the water is condensed on the chamber wall. But that is not really an indication of 100% RH, it is a sweat like a glass of water with ice at a picnic, it is just water coming out of the air, as the outside air temperature is different than inside. The inside of the inner box also sweats, but not it's outside.
> 
> Will



Hi Will - 

I was just browsing old threads in search of ideas for a rubbermaid bin enclosure for my baby sulcata and how to get the lights inside the chamber and still have the top closed...and came across this one. I like what you've done  I did see your comment about the condensation on the chamber walls. I currently use an opaque rubbermaid bin and keep the clear top on and notice the condensation builds up. My humidity always says 99% on my gauge with temps around 80-85 consistently but now I am wondering if this is accurate given the condensation? Is it "too humid" or maybe not really 99% as it indicates?

I'm in San Diego as well and years ago used to be in MM also  Perfect socal weather indeed!

-Nicole


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## Kapidolo Farms

I have found that the humidity gauges tend to be not so accurate.


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## Anthony P

@Shannon P, take a look at this awesome setup


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## motero

I have become a fan of zoo meds new nano heat emitters, great for smaller enclosures.


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## Kapidolo Farms

motero said:


> I have become a fan of zoo meds new nano heat emitters, great for smaller enclosures.


http://zoomed.com/db/products/Entry...wO3M6MjoiTm8iO31zOjY6IlNlYXJjaCI7czowOiIiO30= These??? 25Watt


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## motero

Will said:


> http://zoomed.com/db/products/Entry...wO3M6MjoiTm8iO31zOjY6IlNlYXJjaCI7czowOiIiO30= These??? 25Watt





Yes there is a 40 watt one too. Now you can heat inside an average tank with a thermostate. 60 watts when they cycle on are way to hot and two close in a small closed chamber. Mostly For hatchlings in my case.


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## motero

excuse the dirty glass, at 8.5 inches directly under a 40 w nano CHE. It is 105 degrees. So the whole heat element is in a tank that is 14 inches tall.


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## Kapidolo Farms

I really like that. A humble suggestion, a clay saucer sitting on the cinder blocks with water will be a passive humidity system. I think the blocks are a good idea, they will hold and re-radiate heat for some time. Good heat zone area.


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