# *Important question*



## jjaymeza (Apr 17, 2018)

Hey everyone I have a huge question it’s not super important I just wanted to grab your attention and hear people out. So I am 23 I’m a flight attendant I have a stable home I have a bf I’ve been with for quite some time (dual income) and I am basically to say the least obsessed with tortoises. I have looked at quite a few and some Ive seen have quite the price tags. So when attempting to become a new tortoise breeder and wanting to breed say an expensive tortoise. How does one begin, is it that they know a cheap breeder to start them (a friend) or do they bite the bullet and cough up $4,000 on two animals that can potentially die a week after purchase it. (And that’s for a sexually immature hatchling) also not knowing the gender for a while raising it and having the chance that they are the same gender (years) I guess I’m trying to figure out where to begin cause I want to own a lot of big breeds and I guess I look at the cost and I second guess myself cause I’ve never invested so much money in living creatures before. So I’d like to know some stories or words of wisdom on how you got started. I figure the sooner I begin my journey the only more rewarding it will be.I’ve never had a passion for anything like I do for this animal and I am excited about it. Thank you guys for always being supportive!


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## Bambam1989 (Apr 17, 2018)

When you say "expensive Tortoise" are speaking about the species in general like Aldabras or a color mutation like an albino sulcata?


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## Kapidolo Farms (Apr 17, 2018)

Are you in an apartment, SFH, or have 20 acres?

Many species are expensive because even with a low demand, it might be they just don't produce that many offspring. So expense to buy and yield to sell are different points to consider.

Are you science literate? There is lots of great advice here, but I see people struggle with some seemingly simple concepts. I think they are bright, just not exposed to or practiced with scientific principles? That is not so much a requirement, but if you are starting from scratch and will need to ask many questions, it would be good to know how to reason the answer into your specific situation.

The Fort Worth area would be for most species outside year round provided retreat from extreme temps at both ends of the thermometer. Can you build or buy insulated night houses and/or greenhouses?

There are many examples of people trudging alone for many years who become instant successes, get me?


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## jjaymeza (Apr 17, 2018)

Bambam1989 said:


> When you say "expensive Tortoise" are speaking about the species in general like Aldabras or a color mutation like an albino sulcata?



Yes sir my thoughts exactly or even like Galapas (I know I can’t have that one in Texas) or just a really amazing breed


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## jjaymeza (Apr 17, 2018)

Will said:


> Are you in an apartment, SFH, or have 20 acres?
> 
> Many species are expensive because even with a low demand, it might be they just don't produce that many offspring. So expense to buy and yield to sell are different points to consider.
> 
> ...



I am in a house I actually own multiple with various large scale sizes of land. I’m not exactly a science major by no means but I am definitely not a newbie when it comes to raising specific breeds of tortoise. I can definitely buy insulated night houses I can even convert some of my sheds. Raising them isn’t the issue I haven’t had any die on me. The only struggle I have is making the big purchase and taking the jump per say. I guess I haven’t felt comfortable enough with my methods. I would love some more hands on training and also have other more experienced breeders mentor me. I just don’t really know anyone with an interest in tortoises so I’ve been trying to get more involved with the community.


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## Yvonne G (Apr 17, 2018)

In my opinion, it's best to start with a "beginner" tortoise, like a Russian, Greek or Redfooted. Learn how to take care of that animal - what it needs to thrive (not just live) and grow. Once you have the basics down, then think about getting the opposite sex of that species and learn what it takes to have them breed and lay eggs successfully, and then how to incubate the eggs to hatch successfully. Once you've gotten the "beginner" tortoise down pat you can spend more money and get the higher end tortoises to breed. 

This doesn't happen overnight. It takes years. Breeding tortoises and hatching out babies is a very long, slow process. It can get expensive. You don't realize any profit for years and years, and then probably only if you have many, many pairs producing.

If you just want to have the fun of getting an egg or two and watching them hatch, go for it. It's probably catch as catch can.


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## JoesMum (Apr 17, 2018)

As a flight attendant, you are presumably away from home pretty regularly. Do you have equally enthusiastic people back home who will run things for you in your absence. There is rather more to it than chucking in a lettuce and letting them get on with it as I am sure you are aware.


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## jjaymeza (Apr 17, 2018)

Yvonne G said:


> In my opinion, it's best to start with a "beginner" tortoise, like a Russian, Greek or Redfooted. Learn how to take care of that animal - what it needs to thrive (not just live) and grow. Once you have the basics down, then think about getting the opposite sex of that species and learn what it takes to have them breed and lay eggs successfully, and then how to incubate the eggs to hatch successfully. Once you've gotten the "beginner" tortoise down pat you can spend more money and get the higher end tortoises to breed.
> 
> This doesn't happen overnight. It takes years. Breeding tortoises and hatching out babies is a very long, slow process. It can get expensive. You don't realize any profit for years and years, and then probably only if you have many, many pairs producing.
> 
> If you just want to have the fun of getting an egg or two and watching them hatch, go for it. It's probably catch as catch can.



I completely understand maybe I should be more patient. I’m a get better everyday type of person so I want to be my best right now so I keep on getting better. I am working with sulcatas currently I used to have red foots I parted ways with them which was very hard. I will take this advice maybe I can even work on a tortoise farm sometime to learn.


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## jjaymeza (Apr 17, 2018)

JoesMum said:


> As a flight attendant, you are presumably away from home pretty regularly. Do you have equally enthusiastic people back home who will run things for you in your absence. There is rather more to it than chucking in a lettuce and letting them get on with it as I am sure you are aware.



As a flight attendant I have complete control of my schedule it is amazing I typically back all my trips up to where I work basically two weeks straight and then I’m free the rest of the month. And while I am gone my other half takes care of everything soaking, letting them graze, making sure temps are correct with the temp gun, fresh water etc.


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## Bambam1989 (Apr 17, 2018)

jjaymeza said:


> I completely understand maybe I should be more patient. I’m a get better everyday type of person so I want to be my best right now so I keep on getting better. I am working with sulcatas currently I used to have red foots I parted ways with them which was very hard. I will take this advice maybe I can even work on a tortoise farm sometime to learn.


At 23 you have plenty of time to learn.
I am also considering getting into breeding a few types of torts, but I don't expect to start for a couple more years. During this time I plan on reading and learning every bit that I can about the types that I am considering. When I feel I'm ready, I'll start with one type and then slowly expand.


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## JoesMum (Apr 17, 2018)

Before you get into breeding, make sure there is a market. @ZEROPILOT discovered the hard way that he was breeding a species that were virtually impossible to rehome to anywhere other than a pet store which upset him greatly


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## ZEROPILOT (Apr 17, 2018)

JoesMum said:


> Before you get into breeding, make sure there is a market. @ZEROPILOT discovered the hard way that he was breeding a species that were virtually impossible to rehome to anywhere other than a pet store which upset him greatly


Correct.
Breeding is very time consuming and requires MUCH more than you might first consider. Including loads of room, etc.
It wasn't for me.
I did have a very hard time looking for people to pass my babies off to...even for free...that I didn't think would end up killing them.
It was awful.


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## NorCal tortoise guy (Apr 17, 2018)

ZEROPILOT said:


> Correct.
> Breeding is very time consuming and requires MUCH more than you might first consider. Including loads of room, etc.
> It wasn't for me.
> I did have a very hard time looking for people to pass my babies off to...even for free...that I didn't think would end up killing them.
> It was awful.


Out of Curiosity what species did you breed?


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## NorCal tortoise guy (Apr 17, 2018)

I am working on setting up some breeding groups right now I am choosing to start with babies and invest the time so I will know how my animals have been cared for and that they are healthy when it comes to breeding time
As for taking the plunge on expensive animals for me that has taken time working with more "beginner" species and perfecting my skill
Not saying I'm anywere near perfect haha


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## ZEROPILOT (Apr 24, 2018)

NorCal tortoise guy said:


> Out of Curiosity what species did you breed?


Redfoot.
And they live so well here in south Florida that the market is fully saturated.


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## NorCal tortoise guy (Apr 24, 2018)

ZEROPILOT said:


> Redfoot.
> And they live so well here in south Florida that the market is fully saturated.



Thanks for the info I can understand that


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## daniellenc (Apr 24, 2018)

Also as someone who’s breed chahouas, crested, and lechianus in the past at the height of their selling point before it, and after. Corn snakes and Hogg Isle boas if it’s money your after let me break the news....it’s money you’ll need. Get a species you can economically care for now. Enjoy it!! But don’t hurry to breed 80% of (breeders) are either not making money or doing it right. Enjoy the animal!! I can’t tell you the difference between my solo torts care and a rack system but I can say he’s far more spoiled.


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## ALDABRAMAN (Apr 24, 2018)

~ I can can provide insight on the aldabra species. If you start with little ones, you will never be a breeder. They simply take too long to mature, mainly the males. I have heard of several young females that have produced, however the males are always very mature that provided the fertility. Your challenge if you were to start a aldabra breeding program would be the males, they are simply not available and are very expensive. Without getting into details about the males, think of the common denominator with the few sources that are producing, all have mature well developed males. A word of caution, if one is available and the seller claims it is a breeder, chances are it is not and probably for several reasons. You better have deep pockets to get started, adults are very expensive and you will buy many on speculation that will not produce or are not the sex that you thought you purchased. When i spoke to you on the phone, you had sincere passion. We all start somewhere, my only advice is to do as much research as possible and be very cautious when trusting someone who is trying to sell or persuade you to purchase any possible breeders. I know of four sources that are currently producing aldabras here in the US and none of them would ever sell you a male. Bob Clark's female is actually placed with a mature male at a zoo that provides the fertility. After talking to several of the successful Galapagos breeders, the males that are providing fertility are much younger and mostly F2's. This is totally at odds with what we have experienced with the aldabra species, i know of no F2's or even young males that has ever provided fertility in the US. I have never conversed with anyone outside the US, therefore i can not comment at all. There are several sources that are actively producing the Galapagos species with consistent success levels. Hope this is informative, our opinions are based on over thirty years of working with the aldabra species and all that was involved.


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## Tom (Apr 24, 2018)

Why do you want to breed? For what reason?

The best course of action will vary with species. Determine what species you want to work with and why, and we can help you formulate a plan. If you don't know which species yet, list some of your most important criterion and we can make suggestions and explain why we think those would work for you based on your criterion. Do you want to raise hatchlings, or start with adults? Do you pick species based on size, personality, hardiness, ease of maintenance, ease of housing and feeding? Do you want quick (relatively…) results or do you wish to invest 20-25 years in this?

You mentioned that you know you can't have Galops in TX. Why not? You can buy them directly from Gladys Porter Zoo and you don't need a CBW. Or get a CBW an buy them from other states yourself. Or buy them legally from someone else in your state that legally brought them in under their CBW.


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## jjaymeza (Apr 24, 2018)

ALDABRAMAN said:


> ~ I can can provide insight on the aldabra species. If you start with little ones, you will never be a breeder. They simply take too long to mature, mainly the males. I have heard of several young females that have produced, however the males are always very mature that provided the fertility. Your challenge if you were to start a aldabra breeding program would be the males, they are simply not available and are very expensive. Without getting into details about the males, think of the common denominator with the few sources that are producing, all have mature well developed males. A word of caution, if one is available and the seller claims it is a breeder, chances are it is not and probably for several reasons. You better have deep pockets to get started, adults are very expensive and you will buy many on speculation that will not produce or are not the sex that you thought you purchased. When i spoke to you on the phone, you had sincere passion. We all start somewhere, my only advice is to do as much research as possible and be very cautious when trusting someone who is trying to sell or persuade you to purchase any possible breeders. I know of four sources that are currently producing aldabras here in the US and none of them would ever sell you a male. Bob Clark's female is actually placed with a mature male at a zoo that provides the fertility. After talking to several of the successful Galapagos breeders, the males that are providing fertility are much younger and mostly F2's. This is totally at odds with what we have experienced with the aldabra species, i know of no F2's or even young males that has ever provided fertility in the US. I have never conversed with anyone outside the US, eetherefore i can not comment at all. There are several sources that are actively producing the Galapagos species with consistent success levels. Hope this is informative, our opinions are based on over thirty years of working with the aldabra species and all that was involved.



My passion is to have and bond with that species and eventually do what you do. I’m not wanting results now but to grow with them sounds beautiful. To eventually be able to have something to show from my beautiful pets. my sulcatas are family, But they aren’t as social as I have said even with endless love.


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## Tom (Apr 24, 2018)

jjaymeza said:


> My passion is to have and bond with that species and eventually do what you do. I’m not wanting results now but to grow with them sounds beautiful. To eventually be able to have something to show from my beautiful pets. my sulcatas are family, But they aren’t as social as I have said even with endless love.


How old are your sulcatas? They are the most social species of all of them.


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## JanelP (May 19, 2018)

Breeders of any species- A good, reputable breeder does not do it for money. They do it because they have passion for that breed in the species. Most of the time they are lucky to break even due to taking care to have healthy breeding stock, proper husbandry, and finding good homes for the offspring. They want to produce the healthiest, best representation of the breed standard.


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