# Best Tortoise Species for Beginner in Missouri?



## AllieKat1997 (Aug 30, 2018)

Hello! I’ve been wanting a tortoise for years (and I do mean years!) I’ve done tons and tons of research, and I really have my heart set on a leopard tortoise... I’m just not sure how one will fair in Missouri. Our weather is crazy - it could snow one day and then be 90 degrees the next, plus humidity gets pretty high. Needless to say any tortoise I purchase will be living indoors some of the time. I would also like a tortoise I can mess with - and NO, I will not have him running around the house for six hours straight. Just one I can pet and maybe hold for ten minutes before letting him go about his day. I have a nice fenced in yard (that will definitely be tortoise-proofed!) but I live in a trailer, and while I can definitely find room for a tortoise table space is a bit limited. I can’t say why I love the leopards so much, I love their shells of course but there’s something about them that I just love - I’d go with a male in hopes he’d say smaller but I know an easy mishap and I can end up with a female, especially when it comes to gender-ing babies.

Okay, that’s probably enough ranting. Please let me know what you guys think... I’d love a leopard but I don’t want to harm one by not giving him the proper care and space. 

If you think a leopard tortoise is the wrong fit for me which species do you think I should go with? Thanks a ton!


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## TechnoCheese (Aug 30, 2018)

AllieKat1997 said:


> Hello! I’ve been wanting a tortoise for years (and I do mean years!) I’ve done tons and tons of research, and I really have my heart set on a leopard tortoise... I’m just not sure how one will fair in Missouri. Our weather is crazy - it could snow one day and then be 90 degrees the next, plus humidity gets pretty high. Needless to say any tortoise I purchase will be living indoors some of the time. I would also like a tortoise I can mess with - and NO, I will not have him running around the house for six hours straight. Just one I can pet and maybe hold for ten minutes before letting him go about his day. I have a nice fenced in yard (that will definitely be tortoise-proofed!) but I live in a trailer, and while I can definitely find room for a tortoise table space is a bit limited. I can’t say why I love the leopards so much, I love their shells of course but there’s something about them that I just love - I’d go with a male in hopes he’d say smaller but I know an easy mishap and I can end up with a female, especially when it comes to gender-ing babies.
> 
> Okay, that’s probably enough ranting. Please let me know what you guys think... I’d love a leopard but I don’t want to harm one by not giving him the proper care and space.
> 
> If you think a leopard tortoise is the wrong fit for me which species do you think I should go with? Thanks a ton!



Welcome to the forum!

If you get a leopard, as an adult, it will not be able to live indoors for any period of time. You will need a large outdoor shed with a heated night box inside that, with outdoor access at all times except night.

Keep in mind that tortoises don’t really enjoy handling. They’re solitary animals that prefer to be alone. You can still hold and sit with them if you want to, they’ll probably tolerate it.

How large is your yard?

Not sure if you mentioned your humid climate as a bad thing or a good thing, but just in case I figured I’d tell you that it’s a really good thing. Humidity is good for virtually every species, and for leopards, it is necessary.

Please give these a read and come back with questions-
How To Raise A Healthy Sulcata Or Leopard, Version 2.0 https://tortoiseforum.org/index.php...ealthy-Sulcata-Or-Leopard,-Version-2.0.79895/ 

For Those Who Have a Young Sulcata... https://tortoiseforum.org/index.php?threads/For-Those-Who-Have-a-Young-Sulcata....76744/ 

Beginner Mistakes https://tortoiseforum.org/index.php?threads/Beginner-Mistakes.45180/


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## TechnoCheese (Aug 30, 2018)

Also, male leopards usually get larger than females. Not the other way around.


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## AllieKat1997 (Aug 30, 2018)

TechnoCheese said:


> Also, male leopards usually get larger than females. Not the other way around.




Thanks so much for responding. I went through your forums and the beginner mistakes was really eye-opening. I don’t have a heated, outdoor, shed and my front yard is standard. I really don’t think I can do a leopard tortoise. I just don’t have the space for one, which is a complete bummer, I absolutely love them. Do you have a smaller species that you think would be a better fit? I had hermann’s tortoise on my list of potentials.

I’m trying my best to research, I kept hearing that makes were smaller than females, I even thought I read that about leopards in particular. All the info is probably bleeding together at this point! 
Thanks for the reply!


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## TechnoCheese (Aug 30, 2018)

AllieKat1997 said:


> Thanks so much for responding. I went through your forums and the beginner mistakes was really eye-opening. I don’t have a heated, outdoor, shed and my front yard is standard. I really don’t think I can do a leopard tortoise. I just don’t have the space for one, which is a complete bummer, I absolutely love them. Do you have a smaller species that you think would be a better fit? I had hermann’s tortoise on my list of potentials.
> 
> I’m trying my best to research, I kept hearing that makes were smaller than females, I even thought I read that about leopards in particular. All the info is probably bleeding together at this point!
> Thanks for the reply!



Testudos like Hermanns and Russians might work, but they still need a minimum enclosure size of 8x4 feet.
Here’s a care sheet that works for most testudos-
Russian Tortoise Care Sheet https://tortoiseforum.org/index.php?threads/Russian-Tortoise-Care-Sheet.80698/

Beginner Mistakes https://tortoiseforum.org/index.php?threads/Beginner-Mistakes.45180/


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## Yvonne G (Aug 30, 2018)

Hi, and welcome!


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## Gillian M (Aug 30, 2018)

A very warm welcome to the forum!


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## AllieKat1997 (Aug 30, 2018)

Yvonne G said:


> Hi, and welcome!



Hello, and thank you! 
I’m very new to the tortoise world. I really love the leopard tortoises (babcocki) but I’m learning I just don’t have the room... he’d have to live inside for half the time, in winter months and I don’t have the space for a humongous cage.... I’ve been looking at the smaller species and am taken with the Golden Greek tortoises. They’re smaller and would probably be a better fit. Do you know much about them? 
Thanks again!


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## SweetGreekTorts (Aug 30, 2018)

The Russian Tortoise would be an excellent beginner tortoise. They stay small, just need an indoor enclosure to accommodate it comfortably (adults need at least 8'x4'). They are very tolerant of weather extremes (both hot and cold). Quite the spunky species too. I love them!


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## AllieKat1997 (Aug 30, 2018)

Gillian Moore said:


> A very warm welcome to the forum!



Thank you 
I’m new to the tortoise world. I really really love the leopard tortoises but I just don’t have the space for a giant cage and in the winter he’d have to come indoors in a smaller enclosure... so I’ve been looking at smaller species. I’m really liking the Golden Greeks. Are you familiar with them?


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## AllieKat1997 (Aug 30, 2018)

irishkitty said:


> The Russian Tortoise would be an excellent beginner tortoise. They stay small, just need an indoor enclosure to accommodate it comfortably (adults need at least 8'x4'). They are very tolerant of weather extremes (both hot and cold). Quite the spunky species too. I love them!



Hello, thanks for the reply! I’ve been looking closely at the Russian’s, Hermann’s, and Greek and I’m really liking the Golden variation of the Greek Tortoises. I’m understanding that these three are very similar, is this accurate? Thanks!


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## Gillian M (Aug 30, 2018)

AllieKat1997 said:


> Thank you
> I’m new to the tortoise world. I really really love the leopard tortoises but I just don’t have the space for a giant cage and in the winter he’d have to come indoors in a smaller enclosure... so I’ve been looking at smaller species. I’m really liking the Golden Greeks. Are you familiar with them?


If you mean the Greek torts, I've had Oli for about seven years or so. But he's not young or small, of course.  You definitely need a tort from the smaller species (as you put it).

Please read the "Beginners Mistakes" Thread.

@Yvonne G 
@Tom 

please help. Thank you both. Appreciate it.


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## AllieKat1997 (Aug 30, 2018)

Gillian Moore said:


> If you mean the Greek torts, I've had Oli for about seven years or so. But he's not young or small, of course.  You definitely need a tort from the smaller species (as you put it).
> 
> Please read the "Beginners Mistakes" Thread.
> 
> ...



Yes, I mean Greeks, I just love the golden variation that you can find. I think they’re beautiful. I was researching (a BUNCH!) and found this article
http://www.reptilesmagazine.com/Care-Sheets/Leopard-Tortoise/ where it states that an adult leopard tortoise can be housed in a 6ft long 4ft wide pen, but I’m sure this isn’t true? I could easily do 6’4, I could even go bigger! But I would think a leopard would be way too big for such a pen? 
I have read the beginner mistakes forum and it was very interesting. 
How big is your Oli?
Thanks!


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## Gillian M (Aug 30, 2018)

AllieKat1997 said:


> Yes, I mean Greeks, I just love the golden variation that you can find. I think they’re beautiful. I was researching (a BUNCH!) and found this article
> http://www.reptilesmagazine.com/Care-Sheets/Leopard-Tortoise/ where it states that an adult leopard tortoise can be housed in a 6ft long 4ft wide pen, but I’m sure this isn’t true? I could easily do 6’4, I could even go bigger! But I would think a leopard would be way too big for such a pen?
> I have read the beginner mistakes forum and it was very interesting.
> How big is your Oli?
> Thanks!


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## Gillian M (Aug 30, 2018)

AllieKat1997 said:


> Yes, I mean Greeks, I just love the golden variation that you can find. I think they’re beautiful. I was researching (a BUNCH!) and found this article
> http://www.reptilesmagazine.com/Care-Sheets/Leopard-Tortoise/ where it states that an adult leopard tortoise can be housed in a 6ft long 4ft wide pen, but I’m sure this isn’t true? I could easily do 6’4, I could even go bigger! But I would think a leopard would be way too big for such a pen?
> I have read the beginner mistakes forum and it was very interesting.
> How big is your Oli?
> Thanks!


I've attached a pic of Oli. Despite their size, torts in general need a real lot of space, as they are used to wander around in the wild without "red lights."


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## AllieKat1997 (Aug 30, 2018)

Gillian Moore said:


> I've attached a pic of Oli. Despite their size, torts in general need a real lot of space, as they are used to wander around in the wild without "red lights."



He’s adorable! Yes, I’ve been reading how their territories are often miles long. They really like to travel despite their slow speed, lol! Thanks for the advice!


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## Gillian M (Aug 30, 2018)

AllieKat1997 said:


> He’s adorable! Yes, I’ve been reading how their territories are often miles long. They really like to travel despite their slow speed, lol! Thanks for the advice!


Thank you. 

True. They are so *slow* but they can "walk" on and on for literally hours.  I sometimes take Oli out for a so-called "walk" as I live in a flat. (Flats, I believe are somewhat "unfair" for pets). I watch him him *really* enjoying the walk.  I'm trying to post a video of one of his "walks" but it won't work, do not know why. Sorry.


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## AllieKat1997 (Aug 30, 2018)

Gillian Moore said:


> Thank you.
> 
> True. They are so *slow* but they can "walk" on and on for literally hours.  I sometimes take Oli out for a so-called "walk" as I live in a flat. (Flats, I believe are somewhat "unfair" for pets). I watch him him *really* enjoying the walk.  I'm trying to post a video of one of his "walks" but it won't work, do not know why. Sorry.



I live in a trailer, and though I live alone I’m tight on indoor space. I don’t have the room for a ten by ten pen though that’d be awesome if I did. I _do_ have yard room, just a standard sized yard. I figured I could split a part of the yard off an make it “tortoise proof” so that he can’t get out and nothing can get in. Hawks are notorious where I live, as well as other predators.


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## Gillian M (Aug 30, 2018)

AllieKat1997 said:


> I live in a trailer, and though I live alone I’m tight on indoor space. I don’t have the room for a ten by ten pen though that’d be awesome if I did. I _do_ have yard room, just a standard sized yard. I figured I could split a part of the yard off an make it “tortoise proof” so that he can’t get out and nothing can get in. Hawks are notorious where I live, as well as other predators.


Well, a yard room is great. But please make sure your tort is safe. 

Am posting another pic of Oli whilst we were outside for a "walk" as I still have not been able to the video I mentioned. Sorry.


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## Minority2 (Aug 30, 2018)

Here are a few examples of what you can build for an outdoor enclosure: 
https://www.tortoiseforum.org/threa...table-but-safe-outdoor-baby-enclosures.30683/
http://tortoiseyard.com/images/Predator_ proof_tortoise_pen.jpg
https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/outdoor-enclosure.94637/

You'll want to make your outdoor enclosure predator proof. Locks, sturdy cages to prevent critters and curious people from having access to your future tortoise. 

In case you are still wondering, an adult leopard tortoise is going to need at least a 20 (L) x 20 (W) ft outdoor enclosure.


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## TechnoCheese (Aug 30, 2018)

AllieKat1997 said:


> Yes, I mean Greeks, I just love the golden variation that you can find. I think they’re beautiful. I was researching (a BUNCH!) and found this article
> http://www.reptilesmagazine.com/Care-Sheets/Leopard-Tortoise/ where it states that an adult leopard tortoise can be housed in a 6ft long 4ft wide pen, but I’m sure this isn’t true? I could easily do 6’4, I could even go bigger! But I would think a leopard would be way too big for such a pen?
> I have read the beginner mistakes forum and it was very interesting.
> How big is your Oli?
> Thanks!



Yeah, don’t follow the tortoise advice on reptiles magazine. Their care sheets are terrible for anything with a shell. They recommend that you house a pair of adult Russians, a highly territorial species that should never be kept in pairs, in a 4x2 foot enclosure. That’s the enclosure size we recommend for hatchlings.


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## AllieKat1997 (Aug 30, 2018)

TechnoCheese said:


> Yeah, don’t follow the tortoise advice on reptiles magazine. Their care sheets are terrible for anything with a shell. They recommend that you house a pair of adult Russians, a highly territorial species that should never be kept in pairs, in a 4x2 foot enclosure. That’s the enclosure size we recommend for hatchlings.



Hello! 
Yeah... I figured their information was rather... lacking. It’s good to know not to follow their advice. I hope nobody takes their words to heart because that would be really bad and unfortunate for the animals.  I’m glad I joined the forum for better advice!


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## TechnoCheese (Aug 30, 2018)

AllieKat1997 said:


> Hello!
> Yeah... I figured their information was rather... lacking. It’s good to know not to follow their advice. I hope nobody takes their words to heart because that would be really bad and unfortunate for the animals.  I’m glad I joined the forum for better advice!



I’m a moderator of a reptile forum type place, and you wouldn’t believe how many people there are following it


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## AllieKat1997 (Aug 30, 2018)

TechnoCheese said:


> I’m a moderator of a reptile forum type place, and you wouldn’t believe how many people there are following it



Oh wow. That’s just horrible. I would hope some would use common sense... like I knew a 20 pound leopard tortoise would be horribly squished in a 6ft by 4ft habitat, despite the fact that their website said it would be okay. That’s why I believe research is sooo important. I’m not getting my baby until probably this upcoming summer, so 2019, and here I am researching away! I want the perfect fit so not to stress out the animal. I wish more people researched and double checked resources. I suppose all we can do is keep an eye out and help people when we can.


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## TechnoCheese (Aug 30, 2018)

AllieKat1997 said:


> Oh wow. That’s just horrible. I would hope some would use common sense... like I knew a 20 pound leopard tortoise would be horribly squished in a 6ft by 4ft habitat, despite the fact that their website said it would be okay. That’s why I believe research is sooo important. I’m not getting my baby until probably this upcoming summer, so 2019, and here I am researching away! I want the perfect fit so not to stress out the animal. I wish more people researched and double checked resources. I suppose all we can do is keep an eye out and help people when we can.



I agree entirely.


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