# All Around the Mulberry Tree



## orv (Aug 16, 2016)

Our two California Desert Tortoises are truly spoiled. Sound familiar anybody? I thought so. Our enclosure has plenty of space . . . that is room for growth. We're considering planting a female black mulberry tree for not only future shade but excellent forage from the cuttings for the tortoises. I'm soliciting learned comments from my fellow forum members as to the pros and cons of planting this tree. Staining from the fruit shouldn't be a problem in it's proposed location, nor should the tree's shallow root system. We're in the high desert of Southern California and are blessed with well-drained soil. Is this going to be a proper addition to our tortoise's diet? What say you, my friends? Thanks in advance.


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## wellington (Aug 16, 2016)

I have a fruitless mulberry. The leafs are a great food source. I'm not sure how much of the fruit they should have. However, if you can beat them to it, the fruit is good human consumption.


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## Tom (Aug 16, 2016)

I use lots of mulberry trees, but only fruitless varieties. I would not let a tortoise have access to fruit. Its not good for them.

Do you have both living in the same enclosure? If yes, you shouldn't. They don't do well in pairs. One is always dominant and the submissive cannot escape the territory. There does not have to be overt obvious attack behavior for this situation to be a problem. Just the presence of the other one can cause long term stress which can hamper the immune system.


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## Yvonne G (Aug 17, 2016)

I would not plant one that throws fruit. I have several fruitless mulberry trees and I just love them. 

Your neighbors will soon come to hate you if you plant one with fruit. The birds eat the fruit then fly away, pooping out this ugly, red poop that hits the side of the house and splats all over the sidewalk. Ugly mess.


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## orv (Aug 17, 2016)

Tom said:


> I use lots of mulberry trees, but only fruitless varieties. I would not let a tortoise have access to fruit. Its not good for them.
> 
> Do you have both living in the same enclosure? If yes, you shouldn't. They don't do well in pairs. One is always dominant and the submissive cannot escape the territory. There does not have to be overt obvious attack behavior for this situation to be a problem. Just the presence of the other one can cause long term stress which can hamper the immune system.


 

TOM: Your knowledge on this subject is legendary and I appreciate your input. This couple represents a mother and son. They have lived together without incident since the male hatched in 1984. Initially they lived in the backyard of the home I grew up in and only returned to my stewardship in 2013. Their enclosure is large, allowing for several hides out of the line of sight. They have always lived, eaten and slept together of their own volition. If living long-term with a member of the opposition sex compromises the immune system, I must be totally compromised and nearly dead. I've been married to the same woman for more than 46 years. Thus far I believe that there is no harm and no foul. I'll keep your input in mind. Thank you, Orvil


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## Tom (Aug 18, 2016)

orv said:


> If living long-term with a member of the opposition sex compromises the immune system, I must be totally compromised and nearly dead. I've been married to the same woman for more than 46 years.



Not a good comparison. Humans are social primates. Desert tortoises are solitary reptiles. Not even apples to oranges. More like apples to hamburgers. In addition to that, if you've been married that long, you know all about long term stress...  I've been with my wife for less than half that time, and HOLY COW! Some of those days have been tough to get through.

Because your tortoises have survived all these years, does not make it good for them. Know any smokers?

People don't have to take my advice, but I sleep better at night knowing that I've tried. And thank you for the compliments.


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## Yvonne G (Aug 18, 2016)

Tom: You need to take a look at Orv's habitat. It's a replica of the desert and quite large enough for the two tortoises.

http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/a-tortoise-love-story.104488/


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## orv (Aug 18, 2016)

Thank you, Yvonne. TOM . . . I indeed respect your knowledge and experience. However, these two tortoises have lived together for more than 30 years without overt stress. If either of their immune systems are comprised, perhaps their healthy environment and diet helps make up for the differential. They clearly interact with one another daily. Their only competition seems to be at the food bowl: sometimes he wins and other times she gets the chosen flower. All of we seniors living in our resort enjoy their antics. At this juncture I see no benefit in separating this little family.


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## Tom (Aug 18, 2016)

orv said:


> At this juncture I see no benefit in separating this little family.



I disagree.


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## Tom (Aug 18, 2016)

Yvonne G said:


> Tom: You need to take a look at Orv's habitat. It's a replica of the desert and quite large enough for the two tortoises.
> 
> http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/a-tortoise-love-story.104488/



The enclosure looks lovely, but this does nothing to change my views. The pics of son mating with mother don't help the case either. I wouldn't keep a pair in and enclosure 10 times that size.

You don't think that male runs around searching for and harassing that female every spring? She shouldn't have to live that way.


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## orv (Aug 19, 2016)

TOM, I think that we're simply going to have to agree to disagree on this matter. The situation of the son harassing his mother also concerned me initially. I inquired of the experts at the San Diego Zoological Society as to this and they responded that this should present no problem as their DNA was not complicated enough to cause a problem should they breed. I know, I know . . . but I'm not intentionally causing them to reproduce. In fact, the matter is that I'd rather they didn't as we are quite satisfied with the two we have.


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