# I think i will probably lose this debate but... FOR ARGUMENTS SAKE!



## Thomas tortoise (Feb 27, 2022)

Can I keep a elongated tortoise with a Burmese mountain tortoise if I have a very big enclosure so they don't beat on each other? Or is that a all CAPS NO! maybe a lowercase no? ... And I would like some reasons I cant. Because there seems to be quite a few people who do it and have no problems. And by big I mean 20-20 feet. Maybe 30-30.

Note. I don't have a elongated or a BM. (Burmese mountain) yet. Just a question for possible future tortoises.


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## KarenSoCal (Feb 27, 2022)

Some people have lots of problems in their enclosures and just don't bother to notice.

I don't know much about those 2 species, but if they aren't from the same part of the world, their care and habitat are different.

Different species naturally carry different pathogens. A "bug" in one that is considered normal can kill another that has never been exposed before. 

If you have a male and a female, they might mate, creating an unnatural cross that may encourage bad traits to become dominant. Plus it muddies the breeding of pure species forever. 

They probably will fight. Even 30 x 30 is only 900 sq ft. That's not big at all from tortoise perspective. My 4 yr old Burmese Star can cover his 600 sq ft in about 3 minutes if he so chooses.

There are many more reasons that other members will mention. But as to your question...
NO! NO! NO! 
NO MIXING...EVER!


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## methos75 (Feb 27, 2022)

KarenSoCal said:


> Some people have lots of problems in their enclosures and just don't bother to notice.
> 
> I don't know much about those 2 species, but if they aren't from the same part of the world, their care and habitat are different.
> 
> ...


The two share the same habit and diet in the wild and are commonly found together, which is why some keepers keep the two together


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## Blackdog1714 (Feb 28, 2022)

Given how finicky the Burmese are I would not chance upsetting one. Also 30x30 is not so large. I live within in the City of Richmond and have 10'x40' for my leopard so bigger is always better


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## wellington (Feb 28, 2022)

No, species should not be mixed as you already seem to know!


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## jeff kushner (Feb 28, 2022)

Don't think there's a debate here Thomas, you simply asked a question.....

though in anticipation of the expected response, I hope you wisely donned your helmet before you posted.......lol

All in fun here brother.....


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## Tom (Feb 28, 2022)

No. Species should never be mixed and tortoises should never be kept in pairs.

Also elongata tend to be very territorial and aggressive, and usually need to be housed alone. Babies and young juveniles can sometimes be kept together for a while, but no guarantees. MEE and MEP can usually be kept in groups with enough space and sight barriers.


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## Thomas tortoise (Feb 28, 2022)

How about yellow foots and red foots together? They come from the same place. Please correct me if I am wrong cause I learned it from Google Lol anyway... They seem the same and they both need the same habitat and closely related needs.


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## ZEROPILOT (Feb 28, 2022)

Thomas tortoise said:


> How about yellow foots and red foots together? They come from the same place. Please correct me if I am wrong cause I learned it from Google Lol anyway... They seem the same and they both need the same habitat and closely related needs.


They CAN BE kept together. (For the sake of argument)
I've seen it done in zoos and online videos.
But can you and should you are different issues.
So. Yes you can.
But the responsible answer is that you shouldn't.
We should strive to make the captive lives of these creatures as stress free and as safe as we can.
What is most convenient for us should not be the primary concern.


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## wellington (Feb 28, 2022)

Why do you want to mix species so bad?


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## Blackdog1714 (Mar 1, 2022)

wellington said:


> Why do you want to mix species so bad?


Or you just ornery like enjoying creating turmoil!  Now I am gonna have nightmares of s sulcata size Russian climbing over and crushing my privacy fence!


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## Thomas tortoise (Mar 1, 2022)

wellington said:


> Why do you want to mix species so bad?


I don't know. It just fascinates me. But you all gave reasonable reasons not to so now I know. 


Blackdog1714 said:


> Or you just ornery like enjoying creating turmoil!  Now I am gonna have nightmares of s sulcata size Russian climbing over and crushing my privacy fence!


 yeah! That would be one heck of a nightmare!


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## Thomas tortoise (Mar 1, 2022)

ZEROPILOT said:


> They CAN BE kept together. (For the sake of argument)
> I've seen it done in zoos and online videos.
> But can you and should you are different issues.
> So. Yes you can.
> ...


Okay! Thank you for your time. That was a pretty good reason.


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## Yvonne G (Mar 1, 2022)

Since their territories overlap in the wild, I think it would be ok IF one had a very large outdoor habitat where the tortoises could have their own territories. But as has been said, the Elongated is pretty aggressive and there would for sure be some serious territorial disputes, maybe even bloody. The Manouria is a slow moving, calm tortoise, but can be a pretty rough fighter.


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## wellington (Mar 1, 2022)

Thomas tortoise said:


> I don't know. It just fascinates me. But you all gave reasonable reasons not to so now I know.
> 
> yeah! That would be one heck of a nightmare!


I get the fascination, would be nice to have an enclosure that looked like their natural territory with all the reptiles living together. 
But I learned from the very first time I seen it asked that it can't happen in our very small (compared to the wild) enclosures. 
We will have to move to the wild, their territory and set up camp and just watch if that's what we really insist on seeing.


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## Thomas tortoise (Mar 1, 2022)

wellington said:


> I get the fascination, would be nice to have an enclosure that looked like their natural territory with all the reptiles living together.
> But I learned from the very first time I seen it asked that it can't happen in our very small (compared to the wild) enclosures.
> We will have to move to the wild, their territory and set up camp and just watch if that's what we really insist on seeing.


Okay. I understand.


Yvonne G said:


> Since their territories overlap in the wild, I think it would be ok IF one had a very large outdoor habitat where the tortoises could have their own territories. But as has been said, the Elongated is pretty aggressive and there would for sure be some serious territorial disputes, maybe even bloody. The Manouria is a slow moving, calm tortoise, but can be a pretty rough fighter.


Yeah. I believe the manouria would really put up a fight to defend himself.


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## ColumbiaJane (Mar 3, 2022)

My rather large DT, Sonny (when he was about 20 years old, probably 8 pounds or so) had a lovely yard. 45’ x 45’. Nice mulberry tree, grass, …Then someone gave me this little Russian, Juliet. I made a divider wall of cinder blocks in Sonny’s yard to keep them apart. Juliet had everything any little Russian could want, but she wanted more. She burrowed into the roof of Sonny’s cave (right on the border of the cinder block divider) and attacked him. She was less than one quarter of his size. And all Son could do was retreat into his shell.


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