# Respiratory infection



## LaLaP (Dec 16, 2018)

Maybe this is a dumb question...
How do tortoises get respiratory infections? Do they get them from us? Is it a virus or bacteria? Must be bacteria if it's treated with antibiotics, right? Should we not handle our tortoises if we are sick? Can we infect them with any of our little sicknesses?


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## Lovechell69 (Dec 16, 2018)

It’s not a dumb question. My baby sulcata is recovering from a respiratory infection. From what I know it could be one or multiple things. Humidity temperature diet substrate calcium deficiency. I had to get a antibiotic for my little girl. Unfortunately turtles don’t do medication by mouth so they give injections. My girl is small so she has been getting a injection of baytril every three days. The vet gave the first and I’ve been giving the others. Carrot soaks aren’t a cure but they do help when they’re sick. Someone in here told me about them and I read about them. Nasal flushes and cleaning the nose is good also. If they can’t smell food my girl won’t touch it. I don’t know if people give Sulcatas colds or the flu. I use hand sanitizer before and after I handle her. I just do it not because anyone told me to. I’m fairly new here but I have been going through treating a sulcata with a respiratory infection and research but mostly the people in this group have been great helping me with much needed information opinions and support. Keep asking any questions you have. I did so much research and everything conflicted each other confusing me so much. Vets as some have told me are way behind on knowledge and treatment. I have learned more here and I feel it’s dead on. Who’s better to provide answers than people who have been doing this


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## ascott (Dec 19, 2018)

LaLaP said:


> Maybe this is a dumb question...
> How do tortoises get respiratory infections? Do they get them from us? Is it a virus or bacteria? Must be bacteria if it's treated with antibiotics, right? Should we not handle our tortoises if we are sick? Can we infect them with any of our little sicknesses?



Too cold damp environment that they are housed in...
Dirty substrate that they are forced to live in/on...
Catch from other tortoise....


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## Kapidolo Farms (Dec 19, 2018)

A respiratory infection. There is upper and lower. Tortoises breath through their nose, the air is moved through the closed mouth and into trachea, then the lungs. Most noted respiratory issue occur in the part of the breathing pathway that is from the nostrils to the roof of the mouth.

Sometimes food gets stuck in there, sometimes dust mites or some allergen can cause a running nose as well.

Here's a pretty good (actually really great) synopsis of when it's an actual infection. This is intended for vets to use as a reference, but many folks here should be able to get utility from it.

Nasal Discharge in Tortoises
Thomas H. Boyer, DVM, DABVP (Reptile & Amphibian Practice)
Pet Hospital of Penasquitos, San Diego, CA, USA

Nasal discharge is a common presenting clinical sign in tortoises and some turtles and is always abnormal, even if chronic. Many clients are not aware of this and fail to seek treatment, or consider discharge not a problem because of its long standing nature. Clients have even speculated the coastal marine layer in southern California causes nasal discharge; not true! There are many potential causes. Mycoplasmosis remains the most common cause of nasal discharge but the differential diagnoses in chelonians also includes colonic obstruction, herpes virus, ranavirus, adenovirus, intranuclear coccidiosis, chlamydiosis, reovirus, paramyxovirus, picorna-like viruses, foreign bodies, oronasal fistulas and even hypovitaminosis A, except in tortoises.

First distinguish nasal discharge from gastric reflux. Gastric reflux or regurgitation occurs with colonic obstruction or stasis and is easy to demonstrate on radiographs (DV, lateral and anterior posterior). Look for distended bowel loops in the lung fields on the horizontal lateral and AP views, and bowel distention, foreign bodies or masses, such as cystouroliths, on the DV view. Dyschezia and bloating may or may not be present but anorexia, constipation or obstipation, are typically present. Green to brown saliva or macerated partially digested greens may be in the oral cavity or discharging from the mouth or nares. Colonic impaction can result from gravel, sand, fibrous material, plastics, wire, coins, nails, screw, yard trash, bladder stones, tumors, gastrointestinal infection, or hypothermia. Colonic obstruction is beyond the scope of this discussion, but be sure nasal discharge is just that, and not gastric reflux, before proceeding. See What You Need to Know to Treat Tortoises for more information.

The most common cause of nasal discharge is upper respiratory tract disease, or mycoplasmosis. Several species of Mycoplasma, Mycoplasma agassizii, Mycoplasma testudineum, and perhaps several yet to be identified Mycoplasma species, are causative. Mycoplasma testudinus, isolated from the cloaca of a Greek tortoise, is not thought to cause disease. Mycoplasmosis has been described in an ever widening arc of tortoise species (especially Gopherus, Testudo and Geochelone species) as well as box turtles, bog and spotted turtles. All terrestrial turtles are likely susceptible. Mycoplasmosis is widespread in wild Gopherus agassizii and Gopherus polyphemus but was not found in wild Gopherus berlanderi. However 80% of 39 G. berlanderi were seropositive in a Texas rehabilitation facility. In G. polyphemus disease incidence is higher in sexually mature adults, especially males, compared to juveniles. Contacts through courtship, mating and male agnostic behavior may be required for direct horizontal transmission. Initial mortality is high; those that survive have low mortality and high morbidity.

To understand mycoplasmosis we must appreciate nasal sinus anatomy. Mycoplasma bacteria attach to the surface of epithelial cells in the nasal sinus and choana (internal nares) which causes and over-exuberant host response. The nasal mucosa suffers from loss of ciliated epithelium, mucosal hyperplasia, and infiltration of lymphocytes and histiocytes. Normal olfactory mucosa becomes replaced with proliferating mucosal epithelial cells and proliferating basal cells, heterophils, and histiocytes. The lesions slough large amounts of epithelial and inflammatory cells, which create the nasal discharge and over time form caseous material filling and occluding the nasal sinus. Clinical impression is that most tortoises don’t eat well because they use olfaction to find and select food and mycoplasmosis decreases olfaction.

Clinical signs include clear serous to tenacious mucoid bubbling to mucopurulent nasal discharge, sometimes also from the eyes, conjunctivitis and palpebral edema. Clinical signs may appear within 1–2 weeks of exposure, it takes G. polyphemus 6–8 weeks to develop an immune response. Antibiotics against Mycoplasma spp. do not appear to provide protective immunity. Mycoplasma is spread directly via nasal exudates and is very contagious as tortoises often greet one another nose to nose. Many tortoises are chronically infected. Infected tortoises are often in appetent, lethargic with clear nasal discharge, bubbling from the nares or have clogged nares and have lost weight or feel light. Chronic cases can have erosion of the nares and rhamphotheca; hatchlings can have enlargement and distortion of the snout (reminiscent of
atrophic rhinitis in swine). If nasal discharge is not apparent during clinical examination, pushing the tortoise’s head straight back into its shell will often produce nasal discharge.

Several diagnostic options are available. Chelonian Mycoplasma culture is extremely difficult due to slow growth (4–6 weeks for Mycoplasma agassizii), small size (colonies not visible without dissecting microscope) and fastidious culture requirements (lower temperature, special expensive culture media and with serum added). In Jacobson, et al, 1994 paper less than a quarter of infected tortoises cultured positive even with a dedicated university Mycoplasma laboratory. Mycoplasma lacks a cell wall which makes life outside the host precarious at best. PCR diagnosis is also problematic because Mycoplasma numbers fall over time due to host response and good nasal flush samples are hard to obtain without anesthesia. Nasal flushing is more sensitive than nasal swabbing. A negative PCR nasal flush doesn’t necessarily mean the tortoise doesn’t have Mycoplasma, it just wasn’t in that sample. Serology is the test of choice for Mycoplasma infections in other species and ELISA testing has been validated for desert and gopher tortoises to detect anti-Mycoplasma antibodies. The disadvantage of ELISA is that it only detects antibodies which documents exposure but not necessarily infection. None-the-less this is an important screening test when importing chelonians to a closed collection. Whole blood or serum can be shipped on ice packs or dry ice via Fed Ex Priority Overnight Service sent to: Mycoplasma Testing Lab, University of Florida, Department of Pathobiology, 1600 SW Archer Road - BSB 350, Gainesville, FL, 32610 (contact lab beforehand, at 352-392-4700 x 3968, to request a sample submission form, samples must arrive on a weekday) or through various commercial laboratories. There is a statistically significant positive correlation between severity of clinical signs and serum antibody ELISA status. Most symptomatic tortoises the author has tested are positive, clients often balk at the cost of testing, in which case the author proceeds to treatment without confirmation.

Four major classes of drugs are used to systemically treat Mycoplasma include fluoroquinolones, macrolides, tetracyclines and chloramphenicol. Aminoglycosides are not indicated. Tetracyclines and chloramphenicol are not commonly used in chelonians, probably because of a lack of pharmacokinetic data. Tetracyclines are used in crocodilians with mycoplasmosis, Jarchow recommended 6 mg/kg oxytetracycline IM q 24 hrs x 10–14 days for tortoises. Fluoroquinolones options include enrofloxacin (Baytril 100, 100 mg/ml, or Baytril 2.27%, 22.7 mg/ml, Bayer Corp, Shawnee Mission, KS, 5 mg/kg SC q 24 hrs for 3–6 weeks, vary injection site for Baytril 2.27%), or danofloxacin mesylate (A180, 180 mg/ml, Pfizer Animal Health, NY, NY, 6 mg/kg SC q 48 hours for 3–6 weeks) or clarithromycin (Biaxin, 50 mg/ml, Abbott Labs, Abbott Park, IL, 15 mg/kg PO q 48–72 hours for 3–6 weeks). Palatability is horrible with clarithromycin but in some cooperative chelonians it can be given orally. Antibiotics alone, even long term, do not seem to clear Mycoplasma, perhaps because Mycoplasma spp. live on the nasal epithelial surface and do not penetrate into tissue. One study, Rettenmund, et al, 2014, treated Mycoplasma PCR positive asymptomatic Forsten’s tortoises, Indotestudo forstenii, and Sulawesi forest turtles, Leucocephalon yuwonoi, with 20 mg/kg clarithromycin PO q 2–3 days for 3 months. Clarithromycin failed to suppress Mycoplasma shedding in 9 out of 10 PCR positive animals.

Another retrospective preliminary study of 10 symptomatic single desert tortoises showed promising results in eliminating clinical signs. No diagnostics were performed. Jarchow 2004, combined nasal flushing with systemic enrofloxacin and found 8 out of 10 desert tortoises remained asymptomatic while still being monitored, for 11–78 months, and 2 out of 10 became symptomatic again at 12 and 30 months post treatment. Treatment consisted of 5 mg/kg enrofloxacin (2.27% or 100 mg/ml) IM in the brachial muscle q 72 hrs (with a range of 48 to 96 hrs) for a total of 3 to 5 treatments and, in addition, flushing the nasal sinus with a solution of 3.0 mg enrofloxacin (2.27%), 0.12 mg dexamethasone (not DexNaP), and 0.8 ml 0.9% sodium chloride, q 72 hrs (with a range of 48 to 96 hrs), also for 3 to 5 treatments. Nasal flushes were applied by placing the (unsedated) tortoise in dorsal recumbency, opening the mouth and flooding the choanae with the flush solution. The mouth was then closed and the solution forced through the nares by applying digital pressure on the intermandibular tissue, pushing the tongue into the choanae. The process was then repeated and the tortoise returned to sternal recumbency before again applying pressure to the intermandibular tissue. The nasal cavity was flushed repeatedly in this manner until only the flushing solution, with no obvious mucus, was expelled from the nares. Treatment was usually one time past resolution of clinical signs, five treatments was typically needed.

For the first flush the author likes to flush from the nares to choanae in a sedated tortoise (unless small or cooperative enough that sedation isn’t needed) in dorsal recumbency with the head extended, mouth open and the glottis packed off by several cotton balls clamped to a hemostat to prevent aspiration. Each nare is flushed with 12 cc saline to force thick mucus, solid cellular debris or foreign bodies out the choanae and mouth, opening up the nasal sinuses, before slowly instilling the enrofloxacin/steroid/saline solution as above. Nasal sinus flush can be used for PCR testing. After treatment, most patients have improved appetite, activity and no further nasal discharge.

Severely underweight anorexic animals benefit from an esophagostomy tube. Most cases are still eating, or were recently eating, and in fair body weight, so an esophagostomy tube isn’t indicated. Keep patients between 73° (low at night) to 86°F (high during day).

Untreated patients develop chronic disease and may accumulate solid cellular debris or thick mucus in the nasal sinuses leading to weight loss and slow decline. In captivity tortoises can survive indefinitely, in the wild they may fail to make it through hibernation or die within a few years. Gopher tortoises on Sanibel Island, FL, declined by 25 to 50% over ten years and similar declines were observed in desert tortoises at the Desert Tortoise Natural Area, in Kern County, CA.

Mycoplasma positive tortoises should be isolated from Mycoplasma negative tortoises as the disease is extremely contagious. Mycoplasma spp. survive poorly in the environment without a cell wall, cages can be rinsed and disinfected with 0.15% sodium hypochlorite. PCR samples of burrows with affected animal did not detect Mycoplasma. Remember nasal discharge is always abnormal and should be treated. Don’t ignore it just because the owner says the tortoise has always had nasal discharge.

Several other maladies can infect tortoises, and cause nasal discharge, including herpes virus, ranavirus, adenovirus, intranuclear coccidiosis, chlamydiosis, reovirus, paramyxovirus, foreign bodies, and oronasal fistulas. The difference here is that tortoises often die quickly after the owner noticing something amiss (except for the last two), which is atypical for mycoplasmosis.

Herpes virus is the next most common cause of nasal discharge. A wide variety of tortoises are affected, especially the common captive chelonians in the Gopherus, Testudo and Geochelone genera. Herpesvirus is characterized by stomatitis-rhinitis. Stomatitis with focal to multifocal to coalescing, white to yellow, diphtheritic plaques, appear about 11 to 12 days after exposure. Nasal discharge initially is serous but becomes mucopurulent later. Severe conjunctivitis and blepharoedema may cause the eyes to swell shut with aqueous or white to yellow mucoid discharge. Hyper salivation, glossitis, dyspnea, dehydration and central nervous system signs, such as head tilt and circling, weight loss, cachexia, may be variably present. In the author’s experience outbreaks often occur after introduction of Russian tortoises, Testudo horsfieldi, which may be carriers or symptomatic.

Two serotypes are known, which can complicate PCR testing, which can be specific for one, or both, depending on the test. Fresh diphtheritic plaques on the tongue or caudal oral cavity make this easy to distinguish from mycoplasmosis and are good for PCR testing. ELISA serology is available to screen tortoises for herpes virus, once exposed tortoises are likely carriers for life. Tortoises produce anti-herpes virus antibodies 4 to 7 weeks post-infection. Infected Mediterranean tortoises had lymphocytosis, heterophilia, elevated AST and alpha globulin fractions, significantly higher than tortoises without herpesvirus. Necropsy with an experienced reptile pathologist can confirm herpes. Impression smears of the tongue may show eosinophilic intranuclear inclusions with Giemsa or hematoxylin & eosin stains. Oral lesions with ranavirus and picorna-like virus infections can look quite similar. Keep in mind that bacterial or fungal stomatitis almost never happens in chelonians, unlike squamates. Direct horizontal transmission is typical from virus shed in respiratory secretions, saliva or feces. Virus can persist for months in soil. Prompt aggressive treatment with acyclovir (80 mg/kg PO SID–TID x 21 days), antibiotics, fluid and nutritional support via esophagostomy tube, and broad-spectrum antibiotics are important.

Ranavirus is an iridovirus known for causing mass mortalities in fish and amphibians that may have crossed over into turtles and other reptiles from frog virus 3. Ranavirus has caused a rash of epizootics in chelonians since the late 1990’s, especially in box turtles, aquatic turtles and tortoises. It can cause death in a wide variety of chelonians from tortoises to soft shelled turtles. Clinical signs include lethargy, anorexia, dyspnea, nasal discharge, conjunctivitis, oral ulcerations, severe subcutaneous cervical edema, ulcerative stomatitis, and “red-neck disease”. Like herpes virus it seems to hit the respiratory and gastrointestinal tracts very hard, histologically, infected animals have hepatitis, enteritis, and pneumonia. PCR testing is available on combined oral and cloacal swabs, as well as whole blood, as well as ELISA testing. Transmission is poorly understood at this time but outbreaks are often associated with amphibians.

A 2009 adenovirus outbreak in over a hundred illegally imported Sulawesi tortoises, Indotestudo forsteni, killed the majority of them despite intensive veterinary care at multiple institutions. Since then several other tortoise and box turtles species have been infected. Tortoises had nasal and ocular discharge, mucosal ulcers and palatine erosions. Pathological findings in infected tortoises were multifocal hepatic necrosis, amphophilic to basophilic intranuclear inclusions and diffuse hepatic lipidosis, myeloid necrosis in bone marrow and severe necrotizing enterocolitis. PCR testing is available for tissue, nasal flushes, cloacal swabs or serum. Virus is shed in feces and oronasal secretions and persists in the environment making fomite or keeper transfer possible.

Testudine intranuclear coccidiosis (TINC) can also result in high morbidity and mortality in a wide variety of tortoises and box turtles and was first identified in radiated tortoises, Geochelone radiata, in 1990. The causative coccidian and lifecycle still have not been identified. Clinical signs may include severe lethargy, rapid weight loss, weakness, gasping respiration, conjunctivitis, nasal discharge, oronasal fistulas and swollen erythematous vents with ulceration. Thick choanal mucus is present on gross necropsy. The parasite is extremely contagious and seems to permeate all tissues in tortoises. Death follows onset of clinical signs within days unless treated with ponazuril or toltrazuril. Diagnosis is typically by post-mortem histopathology or PCR of combined conjunctival, choanal and cloacal swabs. The University of Florida has a 24 test TINC panel which is great for screening collections for this highly contagious disease. Ponazuril, at 20 mg/kg, PO EOD x 3 months or toltrazuril (Baycox 5% Oral Suspension, Bayer Vital GmbH, Deutschland) at 15–20 mg/kg PO EOD x 3 months results in less mortality but it remains unknown if it cures tortoises. Red gelatin capsules make long term treatment of multiple animals more doable. Treat all in contact and symptomatic animals, as well as any PCR positive animals.
A group of research desert tortoises were examined after unexplained morbidity and mortality. Clinical signs included nasal discharge, ocular discharge, conjunctivitis, loose feces, fecal staining around the vent and mucoid feces. Several tortoises were positive for Mycoplasma and Chlamydophila-like organisms.
In tortoises, a reovirus has only been isolated in one case from a spur-thighed tortoise, Testudo graeca. The tortoise was cachectic and had a necrosis of the epithelium of the tongue. Two different squamate Paramyxoviruses were recently identified by PCR in a leopard tortoise that died with copious nasal discharge and severe consolidated lung lobes.

Picorna-like viruses, previously named virus “X”, have been isolated from various Testudo spp and leopard tortoises. Clinical signs included diptheroid-necrotising stomatitis and pharyngitis (very similar to Herpes), conjunctivitis, rhinitis, pneumonia and ascites. Picorna-like viruses have also been isolated from healthy tortoises without clinical signs, the significance of this virus in causing disease remains undetermined.

A variety of foreign bodies can also cause nasal discharge, such as foxtails or blades of grass, in the nasal sinus or choanae, and sticks in the roof of the mouth. One sulcata tortoise had a bottle cap stuck in the roof of his mouth. Another case of chronic unilateral nasal discharge in a Russian tortoise, Testudo horsfieldi, had an oronasal fistula discovered while flushing the nasal sinuses. Overheating, such as a hatchling tortoise flipped over in full sun, will cause nasal discharge for several hours that resolves without treatment if allowed to cool down. Vitamin A deficiency can cause blepharoedema with nasal discharge as well, but tortoises rarely get hypovitaminosis A (greens being rich in β-carotene, a vitamin A precursor), unlike aquatic turtles and box turtles which are very susceptible. Remember a good oral exam is always indicated with nasal discharge. Although Mycoplasma is the primary differential, do not overlook the many other potential causes.

REFERENCES
1. Jacobson ER, Gaskin JM, Brown MB, Harris RK, Gardiner CH, LaPointe JL, Adams HP, Reggiardo C. Chronic upper respiratory tract disease of free-ranging desert tortoises (Xerobates agassizii). J Wildlife Ds. 1991;27(3):296–316.
Brown MA, Schumacher IM, Klein PA, Harris K, Correll T, Jacobson ER. Mycoplasma agassizii causes upper respiratory tract disease in the desert tortoise. Infection and Immunity. 1994;62(10):4580–4586.
Feldman SH, Wimsatt JW, Marschang RE, Johnson AJ, Brown W, Mitchell JC, Sleeman JM. A novel Mycoplasma detected in association with upper respiratory tract disease syndrome in free-ranging eastern box turtles (Terrapene carolina carolina) in Virginia. J Wildlife Ds. 2006:42(2):279–289.
Wellehan J. Mycoplasma. In: Mayer J, Donelly T, eds. Clinical Veterinary Advisor: Birds and Exotic Pets. St. Louis, MO: Elsevier Saunders; 2013:118–119.
Wendland L, Brown D, Klein P, Brown M. Upper respiratory tract disease (mycoplasmosis) in tortoises. In: Mader DR, ed. Reptile Medicine and Surgery. 2nd ed. St Louis, MO: Saunders Elsevier; 2006:931–938.
Johnson A, Morafka D, Jacobson E. Seroprevalence of Mycoplasma agassizii in captive desert tortoises (Gopherus agassizii) from the Greater Barstow area, Mojave Desert, California. J Arid Environments. 2006;67:192–201.
Tristan T. Seroprevalence of Mycoplasma agassizii in wild caught and rescued Texas tortoises (Gopherus berlanderi) in South Texas. JHMS. 2009;19(4):115–118.
Wendland L, Wooding J, White L, Demcovitz D, Little R, Remish J, Ozgul Oli K, Klein P, Christman M, Brown M. Social behavior drives the dynamics of respiratory disease in threatened tortoises. Ecology. 2010;91(5):1257–1262.
Collection and preparation of blood samples from gopher tortoises for determining exposure to Mycoplasma. Florida Fish and Wildlife Commission PDF, http://myfwc.com/media/290176/PW_urtd_info.pdf.
Schumacher IM, Brown MA, Jacobson ER, Collins BR, Klein PA. Detection of antibodies to a pathogenic Mycoplasma in desert tortoises (Gopherus agassizii) with upper respiratory tract disease. J Clinical MicroBiol. 1993;31(6):1454–1460.
Wimsatt J, Johnson J, Mangone B, Totill A, Childs J, Peloquin C. Clarithromycin pharmacokinetics in the desert tortoise (Gopherus agassizii). J Zoo Wildl Med. 1999;30(1):36–43.
Origgi F. Herpesvirus in tortoises. In: Mader DR, ed. Reptile Medicine and Surgery. 2nd ed. St Louis, MO: Saunders Elsevier; 2006:814–821.
Origgi F, Klein P, Tucker S, Jacobson ER. Application of immunoperoxidase based techniques to detect herpesvirus infection in tortoises. J Vet Diagn Invest. 2003;14:133–140.
Muro J, Ramis A, Pastor J, Velarde L, Tarres J, Lavin S. Chronic rhinitis associated with herpesviral infection in captive spur-thighed tortoises from Spain. J Wild Dis. 1998;34:487–495.
Johnson A, Pessier A, Wellehan J, Childress A, Norton T, Stedman N, Bloom D, Belzer W, Titus V, Wagner R, Brooks J, Spratt J, Jacobson E. Ranavirus infection of free-ranging and captive box turtles and tortoises in the US. J Wildl Dis. 2008;44(4):851–863.
Marshang RE. Viruses infecting reptiles. Viruses. 2011;3(11):2087–2126.
DeVoe R, Geissler K, Elmore S, Rotstein D, Lewbart G, Guy J. Ranavirus associated morbidity and mortality in a group of captive eastern box turtles (Terrapene carolina carolina). J Zoo Wildl Med. 2004;35:524–543.
Johnson AJ, Wendland L, Norton TM, Belzer B, Jacobson ER. Development and use of an indirect enzyme-linked immunosorbent assay for detection of iridovirus exposure in in gopher tortoises (Gopherus polyphemus) and eastern box turtles (Terrapene carolina carolina). Vet Microbiology. 2010;142:3–4, 160–167.
Rivera S, Wellehan JFX, McManamon R, et al. Systemic adenovirus infection on Sulawesi tortoises (Indotestudo forsteni) caused by a novel Siadenovirus. J Vet Diag Invest. 2009;21:415–426.
Jacobson ER, Schumacher J, Telford SR, Greiner EC, Buergelt CD, Gardiner CH. Intranuclear coccidiosis in radiated tortoises (Geochelone radiata). J Zoo Wildl Med. 1994;25(1):95–102.
Johnson JD, Garner MM, Braun J, Bradway D. Chlamydiosis in a research population of desert tortoises (Gopherus agassizii). Proc ARAV. Abstract, 2012:111.
Jarchow J. Treatment protocol for upper respiratory tract disease of desert tortoises. 7th Intl Symp Path Med Reptiles & Amph. Berlin, Germany. 2004.
Rettenmund C, Boyer D, Orric OW, Parker S, Wiles R, Pare J. Long-term oral clarithromycin administration to subclinical Forsten’s tortoises, Indotestudo forstenii, and Sulawesi forest turtles, Leucocephalon yuwonoi. Proc ARAV. Orlando, FL, 2014:43.
Jacobson ER, Brown MB, Wendland L, Brown D, Klein P, Christopher M, Berry K. Mycoplasmosis and upper respiratory disease of tortoises: a review and update. Vet Journal. 2014;201(3):257–264.
Papp T, Seybold J, Marshang R. Paramyxovirus infection in a leopard tortoise (Geochelone pardalis babcocki) with respiratory disease. JHMS. 2010;20(2–3):64–68.
Marschang R, Ruemanapf T. Virus “X”: characterizing a new viral pathogen in tortoises. Proc ARAV. 2002:101–102.
Gibbons P, Steffes Z. Emerging infectious diseases of chelonians. Vet Clin Exot Anim Pract. 2013;16:303–317.


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## Cheryl Hills (Dec 19, 2018)

Interesting.


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## LaLaP (Dec 19, 2018)

A lot of that went over my head but the parts I got were interesting and informative. Seems like this would be very useful for someone taking their tort to an unknown vet for a suspected respiratory infection. Especially the treatment/medication part. It could even be printed out and handed over. I hope I'm never in that situation but if I am I'll reread this. Thanks!


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## SBTortMom (Dec 19, 2018)

LaLaP said:


> A lot of that went over my head but the parts I got were interesting and informative. Seems like this would be very useful for someone taking their tort to an unknown vet for a suspected respiratory infection. Especially the treatment/medication part. It could even be printed out and handed over. I hope I'm never in that situation but if I am I'll reread this. Thanks!




Greetings! I cannot speak to other species but Mojave Desert Tortoises most certainly can catch human viruses from humans—and they can be fatal. Strongly suggest that if your tort has discharge (ocular or nasal), wheezing, fast rate of breathing, or lethargy that you get him/her IMMEDIATELY to a DVM experienced in the care of Herps. Your average Small Animal DVM is not qualified to treat such conditions/reptiles. 
Best wishes!


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## SBTortMom (Dec 19, 2018)

Will said:


> A respiratory infection. There is upper and lower. Tortoises breath through their nose, the air is moved through the closed mouth and into trachea, then the lungs. Most noted respiratory issue occur in the part of the breathing pathway that is from the nostrils to the roof of the mouth.
> 
> Sometimes food gets stuck in there, sometimes dust mites or some allergen can cause a running nose as well.
> 
> ...



Superb article. Thank you!


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## Lovechell69 (Dec 19, 2018)

ascott said:


> Too cold damp environment that they are housed in...
> Dirty substrate that they are forced to live in/on...
> Catch from other tortoise....


The substrate was changed and her aquarium cleaned wit the reptile aquarium bacterial cleaner along with her hide. Since Drew and Cheryl ( hope I spelled that right). Told me what the temps should be and I corrected. Since everything is on thermostats the temps never change. Its by no means damp. I am maintaining the correct humidity and thank you Drew for helping me out with that. I only have Amara and it’s going to stay that way. I know she got sick and I do blame myself. I had the wrong humidifier that malfunctioned during the middle of the night dropping temps with it. She got I’ll th day after and I tried her vet who was out of town and was given a number that led to many more either out of town or no longer accepting patients. We don’t have emergency animal hospitals that treat exotics. I was not going to just wait so I went to my dogs vet I know very well and he had contacts that I didn’t and treated exotic animals. My dogs vet with guidance of his exotic vet contact came up with a treatment plan and I agreed because I had done my research also and everything was what their treatment plan was. My baby has had her injections carrot soaks nasal flushes and her nasal passages are kept clear and open. She is doing one hundred percent better. She’s even using her cuttlebone and it’s adorable she drags it where she wants it. The exotic pet store my wife got her from was questioned by me. They were feeding her cabbage only. They had her on reptile carpet because they said it was easier to clean. They told me humidity was not a issue nor substrate. I was told she was a year old and she is far from it. I’m not perfect. I had done research before I got Amara and yes information was conflicting but I knew I could give her a better life. I joined this forum because honestly I have learned a lot and keep learning. I want only the best for Amara and when we relocate Amara will be the decider on what state is best for her. I love opinions suggestions and all help I get here. I can take criticism trust me between parental abuse and 15 years of spousal abuse and surviving it. I do know I’m a good person. If criticism helps me keep Amara healthy please do. I don’t give opinions here because I know I am by no means qualified. I’ve only had Amara a month. I will read that article. Amara was sneezing not eating no longer active. Everything I did has gotten her eating her funny personality back and no longer sneezing. Her nose is clear again. She is slowly gaining weight but that’s because I know you should never feed. She doesn’t care for her daily thirty minute soaks but when I get her out she gets a burst of energy. I have the hays cut and in her dish even though she won’t touch them. I went to Whole Foods two hours away to get endives etc to mix with the hay each feeding. Okay thank everyone for replying.


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## Kapidolo Farms (Dec 20, 2018)

SBTortMom said:


> Greetings! I cannot speak to other species but Mojave Desert Tortoises most certainly can catch human viruses from humans—and they can be fatal. Strongly suggest that if your tort has discharge (ocular or nasal), wheezing, fast rate of breathing, or lethargy that you get him/her IMMEDIATELY to a DVM experienced in the care of Herps. Your average Small Animal DVM is not qualified to treat such conditions/reptiles.
> Best wishes!



Can this be authenticated anywhere? A published report maybe? I'm very curious.


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## Lovechell69 (Dec 20, 2018)

Will said:


> Can this be authenticated anywhere? A published report maybe? I'm very curious.


You can find anything you want on the internet and library. I’m not a expert on Sulcatas but I can tell you this. I have read so many articles/studies on the net and I mean a lot because no two articles professors researchers could agree on one thing. I found books in the library and again none agreed with each other. I found a specialist on Sulcatas on here who said Sulcatas don’t belong here so don’t try understanding yet they gave information on them in their native land. I found out the hard way a year ago vets tend to overdo vitamin a killing a rescue box turtle I had for six months and just wanted a check up. She died during the night. We all are sharing experiences opinions trying to help each other and the ones here with more years of experience raising their Sulcatas have been at it longer. No they don’t have a degree but I have learned about proper substrate temps humidity correct food. I learned about carrot soaks when my Amara got a respiratory infection. I was given two ideas on increasing humidity by the way Cheryl Drew your awesome it works. I found out by uploading a pic of my baby’s belly I was right. The exotic store sold my wife a baby saying it was a year old. The tips on getting her to eat the types of hay for Sulcatas she still refuses but I still put it in with her food from a organic store. I thought getting some of the inside of the prickly pear and putting it on the hay would help but honestly I don’t think she can eat it yet even cut up. Hey after three days not only does she tear away at her cuttlebone but she drags it around. Lol. It’s three times her size and its the small ones. To answer your question based on what I know you can find all kinds of information on the internet. I found myself confused and a failure to my baby. The vet told me a 80 gallon aquarium (4 foot) long) was way to big. No Sulcatas need lots of room. I do have a twenty gallon as a nursery for when she gets sick and I can control heat and humidity better. The information the vet gave me over the phone I even knew was incorrect and I’m a newbie. Good luck on the research. Silly as it sounds a tv show on nat geographic has a show doctor k. She only treats exotics. She has a twenty year old sulcata she brings on the show. She’s treated a few from respiratory infections egg bound bladder stones etc. I remembered a sulcata she was examining for a respiratory infection when Amara was sick. The open mouth breathing loss of appetite blocked nasal passages and change in behavior. The owners waited a month to take it to the vet but surprisingly she made it. Night before last she had to fix the top she’ll of one because a car ran over it. She cleaned it up checked for internal bleeding. She was put on antibiotics and pain medication and after it got better she had a 3 d rendering of a top shell made for it to protect it inside and out. Sorry everyone I love learning in here and every time I see the doc treating a sulcata I am paying attention. Oh utube has a lot of videos. My opinion based on watching waste of time but I hope you find what your looking for


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## Kapidolo Farms (Dec 21, 2018)

So basically just you think it's so. Zoonosis (click on the word) is a real thing, a disease can move between different kinds or organisms, though many pathogens are pretty restricted to what they can infect. If there is a specific case where someone did an analysis of a disease organism that transferred to a tortoise, it would be a clear and simple link. We human and tortoises can share some salmonella organisms, that is clear, been sorted out and published many times. You spoke specifically regarding a respiratory issue. It would seem that is just hearsay based on your response. That does not mean it does or does not happen.

Now that you have read this on the internet it enters the realm of 'it's true' yes?



Lovechell69 said:


> You can find anything you want on the internet and library. I’m not a expert on Sulcatas but I can tell you this. I have read so many articles/studies on the net and I mean a lot because no two articles professors researchers could agree on one thing. I found books in the library and again none agreed with each other. I found a specialist on Sulcatas on here who said Sulcatas don’t belong here so don’t try understanding yet they gave information on them in their native land. I found out the hard way a year ago vets tend to overdo vitamin a killing a rescue box turtle I had for six months and just wanted a check up. She died during the night. We all are sharing experiences opinions trying to help each other and the ones here with more years of experience raising their Sulcatas have been at it longer. No they don’t have a degree but I have learned about proper substrate temps humidity correct food. I learned about carrot soaks when my Amara got a respiratory infection. I was given two ideas on increasing humidity by the way Cheryl Drew your awesome it works. I found out by uploading a pic of my baby’s belly I was right. The exotic store sold my wife a baby saying it was a year old. The tips on getting her to eat the types of hay for Sulcatas she still refuses but I still put it in with her food from a organic store. I thought getting some of the inside of the prickly pear and putting it on the hay would help but honestly I don’t think she can eat it yet even cut up. Hey after three days not only does she tear away at her cuttlebone but she drags it around. Lol. It’s three times her size and its the small ones. To answer your question based on what I know you can find all kinds of information on the internet. I found myself confused and a failure to my baby. The vet told me a 80 gallon aquarium (4 foot) long) was way to big. No Sulcatas need lots of room. I do have a twenty gallon as a nursery for when she gets sick and I can control heat and humidity better. The information the vet gave me over the phone I even knew was incorrect and I’m a newbie. Good luck on the research. Silly as it sounds a tv show on nat geographic has a show doctor k. She only treats exotics. She has a twenty year old sulcata she brings on the show. She’s treated a few from respiratory infections egg bound bladder stones etc. I remembered a sulcata she was examining for a respiratory infection when Amara was sick. The open mouth breathing loss of appetite blocked nasal passages and change in behavior. The owners waited a month to take it to the vet but surprisingly she made it. Night before last she had to fix the top she’ll of one because a car ran over it. She cleaned it up checked for internal bleeding. She was put on antibiotics and pain medication and after it got better she had a 3 d rendering of a top shell made for it to protect it inside and out. Sorry everyone I love learning in here and every time I see the doc treating a sulcata I am paying attention. Oh utube has a lot of videos. My opinion based on watching waste of time but I hope you find what your looking for


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## Yvonne G (Dec 21, 2018)

SBTortMom said:


> Greetings! I cannot speak to other species but Mojave Desert Tortoises most certainly can catch human viruses from humans—and they can be fatal. Strongly suggest that if your tort has discharge (ocular or nasal), wheezing, fast rate of breathing, or lethargy that you get him/her IMMEDIATELY to a DVM experienced in the care of Herps. Your average Small Animal DVM is not qualified to treat such conditions/reptiles.
> Best wishes!


I disagree with this.


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## Yvonne G (Dec 21, 2018)

Will said:


> So basically just you think it's so. Zoonosis (click on the word) is a real thing, a disease can move between different kinds or organisms, though many pathogens are pretty restricted to what they can infect. If there is a specific case where someone did an analysis of a disease organism that transferred to a tortoise, it would be a clear and simple link. We human and tortoises can share some salmonella organisms, that is clear, been sorted out and published many times. You spoke specifically regarding a respiratory issue. It would seem that is just hearsay based on your response. That does not mean it does or does not happen.
> 
> Now that you have read this on the internet it enters the realm of 'it's true' yes?


@Will - it was SBTortmom that said people can contract respiratory infection from desert tortoises. It was Lovechell69 that said you can find anything on the 'net.


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## Kapidolo Farms (Dec 21, 2018)

Yvonne G said:


> @Will - it was SBTortmom that said people can contract respiratory infection from desert tortoises. It was Lovechell69 that said you can find anything on the 'net.



Dammit, I hate when I do that. Thanks for keeping me straight.


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## Lovechell69 (Dec 21, 2018)

No I didn’t say you can’t find anything. In fact I said you can find everything. I also said everything seems to contradict each other and good luck. The good luck was not sarcastic. I’m 49 have 3 grown kids and 2 grand kids four dogs a cat and a sulcata. I said I was a newbie here and I have had Amara a month now. If you found something helpful to you I am glad for you. I’m too old and really don’t want to fuss over this. I will correct when someone says what I didn’t. I am sorry you found me offensive and wanted to prove me wrong. My only intention was to answer based on my experience and I believe I said that in my answer. Cheryl I don’t know if you remember when I got defensive when Amara was sick and vowed never to ask a question. I was so upset I can’t remember her name do you? If you remember me and what I said I want to apologize. I think I got a look at my behavior. New or not there are no excuses for being rude and I hope you will accept my apology. I have been helped so much here


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## Lovechell69 (Dec 21, 2018)

Okay I got to ask now. This whole thread is confusing lol. Can a person get a respiratory infection from their sulcata? If so is it airborne? I wash my hands and use sanitizer whenever I’ve handled Amara. I was worried about giving her something


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## Yvonne G (Dec 21, 2018)

Lovechell69 said:


> No I didn’t say you can’t find anything. In fact I said you can find everything. I also said everything seems to contradict each other and good luck. The good luck was not sarcastic. I’m 49 have 3 grown kids and 2 grand kids four dogs a cat and a sulcata. I said I was a newbie here and I have had Amara a month now. If you found something helpful to you I am glad for you. I’m too old and really don’t want to fuss over this. I will correct when someone says what I didn’t. I am sorry you found me offensive and wanted to prove me wrong. My only intention was to answer based on my experience and I believe I said that in my answer. Cheryl I don’t know if you remember when I got defensive when Amara was sick and vowed never to ask a question. I was so upset I can’t remember her name do you? If you remember me and what I said I want to apologize. I think I got a look at my behavior. New or not there are no excuses for being rude and I hope you will accept my apology. I have been helped so much here


I think you misunderstood.


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## Yvonne G (Dec 21, 2018)

Lovechell69 said:


> Okay I got to ask now. This whole thread is confusing lol. Can a person get a respiratory infection from their sulcata? If so is it airborne? I wash my hands and use sanitizer whenever I’ve handled Amara. I was worried about giving her something


No, you cannot. There are very few diseases that can cross the species line and respiratory infections are not one of them.


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## Cheryl Hills (Dec 22, 2018)

Lovechell69 said:


> No I didn’t say you can’t find anything. In fact I said you can find everything. I also said everything seems to contradict each other and good luck. The good luck was not sarcastic. I’m 49 have 3 grown kids and 2 grand kids four dogs a cat and a sulcata. I said I was a newbie here and I have had Amara a month now. If you found something helpful to you I am glad for you. I’m too old and really don’t want to fuss over this. I will correct when someone says what I didn’t. I am sorry you found me offensive and wanted to prove me wrong. My only intention was to answer based on my experience and I believe I said that in my answer. Cheryl I don’t know if you remember when I got defensive when Amara was sick and vowed never to ask a question. I was so upset I can’t remember her name do you? If you remember me and what I said I want to apologize. I think I got a look at my behavior. New or not there are no excuses for being rude and I hope you will accept my apology. I have been helped so much here


No problems. I am so glad we could help!


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## Lovechell69 (Dec 22, 2018)

I know I did. I posted a second reply saying this thread is confusing me. I’m sorry though I should have apologized for my mistake first. Its not a excuse but I haven’t felt good and the topic being discussed I didn’t see everything. I don’t even get email alerts half of the time for some reason. I do apologize though


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## Yvonne G (Dec 23, 2018)

Lovechell69 said:


> I know I did. I posted a second reply saying this thread is confusing me. I’m sorry though I should have apologized for my mistake first. Its not a excuse but I haven’t felt good and the topic being discussed I didn’t see everything. I don’t even get email alerts half of the time for some reason. I do apologize though


No worries!


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## ascott (Dec 29, 2018)

Will said:


> Dammit, I hate when I do that. Thanks for keeping me straight.


No **** huh....seriously,


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## lorena.r (Mar 18, 2019)

Lovechell69 said:


> It’s not a dumb question. My baby sulcata is recovering from a respiratory infection. From what I know it could be one or multiple things. Humidity temperature diet substrate calcium deficiency. I had to get a antibiotic for my little girl. Unfortunately turtles don’t do medication by mouth so they give injections. My girl is small so she has been getting a injection of baytril every three days. The vet gave the first and I’ve been giving the others. Carrot soaks aren’t a cure but they do help when they’re sick. Someone in here told me about them and I read about them. Nasal flushes and cleaning the nose is good also. If they can’t smell food my girl won’t touch it. I don’t know if people give Sulcatas colds or the flu. I use hand sanitizer before and after I handle her. I just do it not because anyone told me to. I’m fairly new here but I have been going through treating a sulcata with a respiratory infection and research but mostly the people in this group have been great helping me with much needed information opinions and support. Keep asking any questions you have. I did so much research and everything conflicted each other confusing me so much. Vets as some have told me are way behind on knowledge and treatment. I have learned more here and I feel it’s dead on. Who’s better to provide answers than people who have been doing this




Hi, I'm going through the same thing right now. Did your tort make a full recovery?


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## Lovechell69 (Mar 18, 2019)

lorena.r said:


> Hi, I'm going through the same thing right now. Did your tort make a full recovery?


She recovered very well and faster than I expected. The carrot baths are mostly to keep them eating because the baytril is really hard on the stomach. I was doing those daily for a week the nasal flushes twice a day and the cleaning the nose with alcohol on a q-tip several times a day. Before a week went by she wasn’t open mouth breathing she started eating great. She looked so much better as far as clear eyes. She not only gained her weight back but now she’s 122 grams. I got her on the pretense she was a year old but she was a baby weighing 52 grams before getting sick lost to 42 grams fast. She is now a beauty with a personality that’s amazing. Thank you for asking about her


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