# Pyramiding in Sulcata Hatchling



## Vegasarah (Mar 19, 2012)

Two days ago I purchased a hatchling sulcata tortoise from a local breeder. I had done my research, and I know that I am ready to make the lifelong commitment to this gentle giant. But I have one major concern...

He's only about 4 weeks old and has what I think is some pretty severe pyramiding. The man I got him from said he keeps them very dry. I am on the "keep them warm and humid" bandwagon, so I am trying to stop it in it's tracks. The man did give him mostly greens, no hay or grasses and Mazuri as the staple. Now I'm weaning him onto Zoo Med Grassland mix, with dark leafy greens and timothy hay for grazing.

I'm just so discouraged that he still has remnants of an egg tooth, and already he has had poor care so young.

Does anyone here have any recommendations for me to get this guy to grow smooth from here on out?


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## Yvonne G (Mar 19, 2012)

He VegaSarah:

Welcome to the Tortoise Forum!!

Wow, you're correct. For such a young tortoise the poor little guy is really pyramided! The only thing you can do for him now is try to do your best by him. The bumps he has will never go away, but with new smooth growth, they will be less noticeable. Be sure he has a waterer at his disposal all the time, and soak him every day for at least 15 minutes.

*What would you like us to call you?* and may we know appx. where in the world you are?


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## Neal (Mar 19, 2012)

Give him good daily soakings. That's some pretty severe pyramiding for such a young tortoise. Forgive me if this is a bit out of line, but if I were you, I would just return the tortoise. There are so many others selling...healthier...tortoises. I know I can't really make a health assessment from a picture alone, but that's some bad pyramiding and it makes me think that the tortoises organs might not be in good health.


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## Vegasarah (Mar 19, 2012)

Vegas is fine. I'm Sarah, from Las Vegas, Nevada!  Right now it's in the 60s-70s and dry dry dry here so I'm trying to keep the hatchling warm and moist. I'm soaking him for 15 mins at a time, twice a day. He really doesn't like it, though. He just tries to get out the whole time and I don't want him to stress himself out too much so I do it twice for 15 mins instead or 30 mins once. I have a humid hide and a water dish always avaliable.


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## Vegasarah (Mar 19, 2012)

Ah, Neal I thought someone might say that... If I return him I know he's going to just go back to that bad situation with the 'breeder' and he will sell it to someone and give them the same bad advice for feeding and housing that he gave me. I got him off craigslist, and I don't think that the breeder would even take it back to be honest. He's so young that I'm hoping that I can just get him healthy and perfectly taken care of for the rest of his long life and maybe the 4 weeks of damage won't be permanent...


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## Neal (Mar 19, 2012)

Vegasarah said:


> He's so young that I'm hoping that I can just get him healthy and perfectly taken care of for the rest of his long life and maybe the 4 weeks of damage won't be permanent...



I've heard a lot of horror stories about tortoises such as the one you have, where they weren't taken care of properly to begin with and the new owner struggles. I understand the "rescue" mentality that some people have, but I've seen it turn bad for them with the unexpected expenses and heartache of an unhealthy tortoise. 

That being said, I have also heard of equally as many success stories too. So if you're committed to this tortoise then I wish you good luck. You will find lots of good info here and I hope to hear about the long life of your tortoise.


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## bholmes88 (Mar 19, 2012)

Vegasarah said:


> Ah, Neal I thought someone might say that... If I return him I know he's going to just go back to that bad situation with the 'breeder' and he will sell it to someone and give them the same bad advice for feeding and housing that he gave me. I got him off craigslist, and I don't think that the breeder would even take it back to be honest. He's so young that I'm hoping that I can just get him healthy and perfectly taken care of for the rest of his long life and maybe the 4 weeks of damage won't be permanent...



Have you thought about showing the guy this forum? That way he will hopefully come over to the dark side and raise the others better. That is serious pyramiding for being so young. Also a great example that raising them dry is wrong. You would think he'd realize the pyramiding is not supposed to happen and try to correct his husbandry.


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## RV's mom (Mar 19, 2012)

Hopefully your excellent care (as evidenced by your concern) will help to turn thing around for your little guy..


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## Vegasarah (Mar 19, 2012)

bholmes88 said:


> Vegasarah said:
> 
> 
> > Ah, Neal I thought someone might say that... If I return him I know he's going to just go back to that bad situation with the 'breeder' and he will sell it to someone and give them the same bad advice for feeding and housing that he gave me. I got him off craigslist, and I don't think that the breeder would even take it back to be honest. He's so young that I'm hoping that I can just get him healthy and perfectly taken care of for the rest of his long life and maybe the 4 weeks of damage won't be permanent...
> ...



Yes, I already emailed this information to him, but that's about all I can do. Luckily the little guy is very happy and active, curious and not scared when I pick him up and he will take flower petals right out of my hand. Other than the pyramiding he seems healthy.

I'm committed to keeping him and giving him the very best care I can. He's going to be my little 'rehab' project. I figure if I can get his growth smooth from here on out maybe he will live a long healthy life despite his rough start.


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## wellington (Mar 19, 2012)

WELCOME. Poor little thing. Read the threads at the bottom of my post. They are both good for Sulcata's. It is one way of raising smooth torts. I raised my leopard this way after getting bad breeder advice and he is now growing new SMOOTH growth. Like said above, the pyramiding will never go away, but it does lessen in appearance. Good luck


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## MORTYtheTORTY (Mar 19, 2012)

Vegasarah said:


> Ah, Neal I thought someone might say that... If I return him I know he's going to just go back to that bad situation with the 'breeder' and he will sell it to someone and give them the same bad advice for feeding and housing that he gave me. I got him off craigslist, and I don't think that the breeder would even take it back to be honest. He's so young that I'm hoping that I can just get him healthy and perfectly taken care of for the rest of his long life and maybe the 4 weeks of damage won't be permanent...



I did agree with Neal too but since you got him from craigslist, IDK what your chances are...you are just like me and I bought a sick hatchling from a breeder that owned his own pet shop and I was going to keep him since I already purchased him and I felt the same way as you in not wanting to let him go back into a bad environment but talking to numerous people on the TFO and watching him day by day just made me refund him. I really wanted to keep him but I'm glad I refunded him because I bought 2 hatchlings from someone on the TFO and they are healthy as a whip! They are 1 month old and I noticed you say yours are 4 weeks old?!? Yours doesn't even look 4 months...yours looks older than that so maybe this guy lied to you somehow?! I hope your tort isn't in bad shape and I hope you didn't pay too much for it...you don't know what kind of living conditions he went through even though it's severe pyramiding for it's age  I hope there's nothing wrong with him...I too have read stories on torts like this that don't make it later on or just shut down due to poor diet and living conditions and some grow to have health problems later on....gluck and looks like he will be grateful for you in finding him ^_^


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## SulcataSquirt (Mar 19, 2012)

I would keep him, hes a cute little guy. My advice to you, do soaks several times a day. If your bord soak your tort, spray him constantly and spray his food with water before he eats it. Get him a nice water dish in his home (a plant sauser works perfect) keep a light bulb above it so the water stays nice and warm to convince the tort to self soak when you are not soaking him. Besides his regular meals that are being sprayed offer him greenleaf lettuce sprayed with water as a treat, This has alot of water in it helping hydrate your tort. Right now your best friend and your torts best friend is water. You want him to soak all this water up like a spounge, He may not take to the water right away so you have to keep it up. I also suggest warm water babyfood soaks to encourage him to take in even more water and vitamins at the same time, I maybe making this sound difficult, but it wont be you just wat to keep this little guy hydrated and not refuse water, I think you have yourself a new life long buddy! good luck with everything!!


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## Yvonne G (Mar 19, 2012)

...and its just too bad if he doesn't like it. Its good for him, so do it.


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## Vegasarah (Mar 19, 2012)

MORTYtheTORTY said:


> Vegasarah said:
> 
> 
> > Ah, Neal I thought someone might say that... If I return him I know he's going to just go back to that bad situation with the 'breeder' and he will sell it to someone and give them the same bad advice for feeding and housing that he gave me. I got him off craigslist, and I don't think that the breeder would even take it back to be honest. He's so young that I'm hoping that I can just get him healthy and perfectly taken care of for the rest of his long life and maybe the 4 weeks of damage won't be permanent...
> ...



The picture isn't very good at showing his size, he's very small, maybe about 3 inches long. He looks like most of the other couple week old hatchlings I have seen on here. But maybe you're right, maybe the guy lied to me and just sold me a stunted sick little thing... I'm going to keep him, I only paid $40 for him.

I have heard it being mumbled about on here and other sites, but is there anything topical I could put on the shell to keep it extra moist and maybe help the new plates form nice and smooth?


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## SulcataSquirt (Mar 19, 2012)

vitashell, pure vitamin E oil, some people even use olive oil. I personally use vitashell, but I would suggest either vitashell or vitamin E oil, heard people talk good about it, but vitashell has been workin for my tort, Overall WATER is your torts best friend for keeping the shell smooth and healthy.


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## Tom (Mar 19, 2012)

Here's how I like to keep them: 
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/Thread-How-To-Raise-Sulcata-Hatchlings-and-Babies#axzz1pcH43DJw

My Daisy was like that when I got her at three months old. If you do a search for "Daisy" and my username you'll see all sorts of pics. Everyone has given you good advice above, but I agree the most with SulcataSquirt. WATER is your tortoises best friend at this point. Try to simulate the hot humid rainy season over there. Here is what I did for Daisy:
1. Damp substrate.
2. Covered top for maximum humidity.
3. Run a humidifier in the enclosure.
4. Keep it warm ALL the time. Never below 80 with all this wetness.
5. Give it a big shallow water bowl. I like the terra cotta plant saucers.
6. Use a humid hide box. A real humid hide box, not a half log or something.
7. Soak once a day in the morning for 30 minutes. After sunning, I soak for another 30 minutes or so.
8. Spray the tortoises shell at least 3 or 4 times a day, but shoot for 10 or more times.
9. Spray the food with water before you serve it.
10. Keep up the sunshine and calcium supplementation.

Remember that you are stopping pyramiding in progress, NOT preventing pyramiding. It took me a while to learn that these are two very different things. Shoot for swampy. Think tropical marsh during the rainy season. It took about two years for Daisy to start growing normally and smooth. It was a long frustrating two years. Now she is actually looking really good. By the time she is a big adult, I'm guessing her little nubs will barely be visible. All this hydration will also help keep your tortoises system flushed in case the kidneys and liver aren't working so great anymore.

It kills me every time I see a case like this and it is STILL so common. I look forward to the day when the "dry" routine is an archaic mistake from our past...


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## l0velesly (Mar 19, 2012)

You should definitely let your breeder know about raising them with high humidity so his future tortoises don't pyramid. Just continue with the "keep warm and humid" method with several soaks a day for smooth growth!


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## MORTYtheTORTY (Mar 20, 2012)

Vegasarah said:


> MORTYtheTORTY said:
> 
> 
> > Vegasarah said:
> ...



WOW! I didn't know they could pyramid like that in only a couple weeks...that's pretty bad


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## dmarcus (Mar 20, 2012)

Hello and welcome to the forum..

You have gotten some pretty good advise already. You can use vita, but just a thin layer especially in the summer with the very hot and dry temps out there. 

Follow the advise given and your little one will start showing smooth growth..


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## Laura (Mar 20, 2012)

i think that poor guy is older then 4 weeks.. he had a rough start and could have issues later on, but hopefully he will survive it all. The 'breeder'?? definately needs to be educated!


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## Yvonne G (Mar 20, 2012)

I also thought he was older than she was told. Some babies keep their egg tooth for quite a while after hatching.


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## MORTYtheTORTY (Mar 20, 2012)

I knew it...it looks thicker than my hatchlings that are barely 1 month and they still have their egg tooth..I'd say that looks 6-8 months maybe..



Tom said:


> Here's how I like to keep them:
> http://www.tortoiseforum.org/Thread-How-To-Raise-Sulcata-Hatchlings-and-Babies#axzz1pcH43DJw
> 
> My Daisy was like that when I got her at three months old. If you do a search for "Daisy" and my username you'll see all sorts of pics. Everyone has given you good advice above, but I agree the most with SulcataSquirt. WATER is your tortoises best friend at this point. Try to simulate the hot humid rainy season over there. Here is what I did for Daisy:
> ...



I just saw your thread on Daisy  poor girl...do you have updated pics of her now?


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## Vegasarah (Apr 9, 2012)

Thanks for all of the advice, everyone. He's still doing well and is happy and healthy. I brought him to my rep vet and we ran some fecal samples and blood work and the vet said he looked good. He also agreed that he is probably closer to 2 or 3 months old.


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## Tom (Apr 9, 2012)

Good luck Sarah. I hope everything goes great for you!


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## Dagashi (Apr 9, 2012)

your tort is adorable (save for the pyramiding) and its great to hear that your tort will receive the bestest care and moisture from a great mum like u! 

I have to say that I'm thankful that we found this forum before we got ours as alot of breeders and owners in Malaysia advised us to keep our torts in the driest situation as possible and that the indian star is most beautiful with it's bumps. 

After lots and lots of reading and researching, we found out that the bumps are pyramiding and is VERY VERY bad and is now a firm believer of moisting our torts as much as possible 

We're still trying to enlighten others that regular soaks and humidity is good to prevent pyramiding, but sadly, alot of people here in Malaysia love the bumps and they actually attempt to make their torts as bumpy as possible! It is really really saddening. A friend of mine, who had an indian tort previously, which died a while ago, never gave water to his tort, because he was advised that the tort will get enough water from the vegetables it eats. It was very badly pyramided, and to boot, he was very proud of the bumps. *sigh*

Anyhow. Good luck with your 'rehab'! Btw does your tort have a name?


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## Tom (Apr 10, 2012)

That is awful Dagaashi. So sorry to hear things have gone that way in your part of the world. How could anyone think that malformed bone and a dehydrated tortoise is a good thing???


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## Vegasarah (May 30, 2012)

The little guys name is Squirt, short for Squirtle from pokemon. That's what happens when your boyfriend names your pets...lol. He is doing well in his moist environment, I just love him to bits.


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