# Florida Gopher tortoise help!



## Kekeedoll (Aug 19, 2020)

Hi! So long story short my little sister was vacationing in Florida and found a tortoise. Without researching it first she decided to bring it back home to Indiana. Turns out she's illegal to mess with. My sister was not equipped to deal with the care involved so I ended up adopting Patty to try and give her the best life possible. 2 years later she's doubled in size and has a huge personality.

My question is related to diet and bedding as there is very very little info out there on proper care. What ii the best substrate for them to tunnel in? We have the space to let her dig but I want to know what is safest for her to tunnel in. Also I've noticed she's very picky and can only get her to eat red cabbage, kale, butter lettuce and baby greens. Is there anything else I should be adding to her diet?
Current picture for tax





What she looked like when I got her.


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## Toddrickfl1 (Aug 19, 2020)

Keeping that tortoise is HIGHLY illegal. We can't help you with that here unfortunately. I'd suggest you contact the Indiana DNR and see what they advise you to do.


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## Kekeedoll (Aug 19, 2020)

Toddrickfl1 said:


> Keeping that tortoise is HIGHLY illegal. We can't help you with that here unfortunately. I'd suggest you contact the Indiana DNR and see what they advise you to do.


Thank you I have! There isn't much to be done according to Indiana DNR and Florida DNR says she can't come back to her original habitat for fear of bringing unknown bacteria into their environment. I've tried to give her to Louisville Zoo as well with no luck.


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## wellington (Aug 19, 2020)

Whatever that green stuff and the white cotton looking stuff is, it needs to go. 
I wouldnt feed cabbage. I would use some plain dirt for a substrate. 
As for food, try to get tortoise safe weeds. Optunia cactus pads, dandelion, spring mix, mustard greens.
There is a rescue in GA that may be able to take him. I will try to get their info for you.


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## Tom (Aug 19, 2020)

Regardless of legality, the tortoise needs proper care and a proper diet.

Here is the care info, but for this species, you need higher humidity and dampness. You need temperatures like the ones described here:





The Best Way To Raise Any Temperate Species Of Tortoise


I chose the title of this care sheet very carefully. Are there other ways to raise babies and care for adults? Yes. Yes there are, but those ways are not as good. What follows is the BEST way, according to 30 years of research and experimentation with hundreds of babies of many species. What is...




tortoiseforum.org






But due to the humidity requirements you need an enclosure more like the ones here:





The Best Way To Raise A Sulcata, Leopard, Or Star Tortoise


I chose the title of this care sheet very carefully. Are there other ways to raise babies? Yes. Yes there are, but those ways are not as good. What follows is the BEST way, according to 30 years of research and experimentation with hundreds of babies of many species. Babies hatch during the...




tortoiseforum.org





Do the closed chamber high humidity, but let the night temp drop down to 70ish. Timers and thermostats will do this for you.


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## TaylorTortoise (Aug 19, 2020)

Kekeedoll said:


> Hi! So long story short my little sister was vacationing in Florida and found a tortoise. Without researching it first she decided to bring it back home to Indiana. Turns out she's illegal to mess with. My sister was not equipped to deal with the care involved so I ended up adopting Patty to try and give her the best life possible. 2 years later she's doubled in size and has a huge personality.
> 
> My question is related to diet and bedding as there is very very little info out there on proper care. What ii the best substrate for them to tunnel in? We have the space to let her dig but I want to know what is safest for her to tunnel in. Also I've noticed she's very picky and can only get her to eat red cabbage, kale, butter lettuce and baby greens. Is there anything else I should be adding to her diet?
> Current picture for tax
> ...


This tort is beautiful!!!!


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## Kekeedoll (Aug 19, 2020)

Taylorlynn48 said:


> This tort is beautiful!!!!


Thank your sm! I love her dearly


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## Kekeedoll (Aug 19, 2020)

wellington said:


> Whatever that green stuff and the white cotton looking stuff is, it needs to go.
> I wouldnt feed cabbage. I would use some plain dirt for a substrate.
> As for food, try to get tortoise safe weeds. Optunia cactus pads, dandelion, spring mix, mustard greens.
> There is a rescue in GA that may be able to take him. I will try to get their info for you.


Thank you for the info!


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## Kekeedoll (Aug 19, 2020)

Tom said:


> Regardless of legality, the tortoise needs proper care and a proper diet.
> 
> Here is the care info, but for this species, you need higher humidity and dampness. You need temperatures like the ones described here:
> 
> ...


Thank you sm for the info!


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## Kekeedoll (Aug 19, 2020)

wellington said:


> Whatever that green stuff and the white cotton looking stuff is, it needs to go.
> I wouldnt feed cabbage. I would use some plain dirt for a substrate.
> As for food, try to get tortoise safe weeds. Optunia cactus pads, dandelion, spring mix, mustard greens.
> There is a rescue in GA that may be able to take him. I will try to get their info for you.


The green stuff is a calcium enriched sand (from Florida so my thought was sand) and she was hatched in captivity (longer part of the unfortunate story) and the blanket was with her from birth. She gets very stressed when she can't find it. I do wash it regularly tho.


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## TaylorTortoise (Aug 19, 2020)

Kekeedoll said:


> The green stuff is a calcium enriched sand (from Florida so my thought was sand) and she was hatched in captivity (longer part of the unfortunate story) and the blanket was with her from birth. She gets very stressed when she can't find it. I do wash it regularly tho.


Why/how did she have the blanket since birth? Didn’t you find her in captivity? 
I also see a golf ball in there! Lol does she like that? Can you post more pictures of her habitat she is staying in? Would love to see.


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## TaylorTortoise (Aug 19, 2020)

Taylorlynn48 said:


> Why/how did she have the blanket since birth? Didn’t you find her in captivity?
> I also see a golf ball in there! Lol does she like that? Can you post more pictures of her habitat she is staying in? Would love to see.


I meant didnt you find her in the wild*


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## Kekeedoll (Aug 19, 2020)

So her full story goes something like this...
My aunt and uncle are from Florida and found an egg outside. They brought it in and put it under lamps and voila Patty was born. My aunt was highly attached as was Patty who spent most of her time outside and even came to the door to be let in. My aunt got diagnosed with breast cancer and passed and my uncle wanted to rehome the tortoise thinking she wasn't equipped to live in the wild so my sister who came down to visit decided to bring her home. She wasn't caring for properly (no lights, forgetting to feed her, ect...)so I took her and got started putting in the money and effort to get her to thrive. I have tried multiple times to get her to the right people with no luck, so now I'm just continuing to care for her to the best of my ability. Thank you for the advice!


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## Kekeedoll (Aug 19, 2020)

Taylorlynn48 said:


> Why/how did she have the blanket since birth? Didn’t you find her in captivity?
> I also see a golf ball in there! Lol does she like that? Can you post more pictures of her habitat she is staying in? Would love to see.


I just put the longer version of get story in the comments and yes I'll happily post more pictures. The plastic golf ball had been a huge fun for her also.


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## TaylorTortoise (Aug 19, 2020)

Kekeedoll said:


> So get full story goes something like this...
> My aunt and uncle are from Florida and found an egg outside. They brought it in and put it under lamps and voila Patty was born. My aunt was highly attached as was Patty who spent most of her time outside and even came to the door to be let in. My aunt got diagnosed with breast cancer and passed and my uncle wanted to rehome thre tortoise thinking she wasn't equipped to live in the wild so my sister who came down to visit decided to bring her home. She wasn't caring for properly (no lights, forgetting to feed her, ect...)so I took her and got started putting in the money and effort to get her to thrive. I have tried multiple times to get her to the right people with no luck, so now I'm just continuing to care for her to the best of my ability. Thank you for the advice!


Wow. What an awesome story! Did they have any idea it was a tortoise egg? That’s one special tortoise!!!
very sorry to hear about the unfortunate news about your aunt. The tort is in good hands.


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## TaylorTortoise (Aug 19, 2020)

Kekeedoll said:


> I just put the longer version of get story in the comments and yes I'll happily post more pictures. The plastic golf ball had been a huge fun for her also.


I had no idea tortoises like toys like golf balls and such.
Makes me want to get creative with mine. I have a russian tortoise


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## Kekeedoll (Aug 19, 2020)

Kekeedoll said:


> I just put the longer version of get story in the comments and yes I'll happily post more pictures. The plastic golf ball had been a huge fun for her also.


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## Kekeedoll (Aug 19, 2020)

Taylorlynn48 said:


> Wow. What an awesome story! Did they have any idea it was a tortoise egg? That’s one special tortoise!!!
> very sorry to hear about the unfortunate news about your aunt. The tort is in good hands.


Not that I know of. They never even expected it to hatch. Lol


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## Kekeedoll (Aug 19, 2020)

Taylorlynn48 said:


> I had no idea tortoises like toys like golf balls and such.
> Makes me want to get creative with mine. I have a russian tortoise


I have a little mirror in there too that she enjoys checking herself out in lol. I always worry she's bored.


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## TaylorTortoise (Aug 19, 2020)

Kekeedoll said:


> I have a little mirror in there too that she enjoys checking herself out in lol. I always worry she's bored.


That’s hilarious. Im going to seriously start getting creative with mine. Thanks for the ideas  does she chew on the blanket by any chance? Does she recogonize you? Also watch out for the lamps being clamped. It can be a fire hazard. I would get a screen over top of the cage or like slide it in the holes and try to have the lights lay flat on the screen or build a wooden anchor for the lights to hang from.


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## Golden Greek Tortoise 567 (Aug 19, 2020)

Make sure to read that care sheet. Looks like her enclosure is too small and she is in need of substrate.


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## TaylorTortoise (Aug 19, 2020)

That black ceramic lamp emits heat you should see if you can feel the heat with your palm facing it to eyeball it. If you cant it needs to come closer so the tort can feel the heat. Also there needs to be a basking light in there for her. You can get a basking light that emits heat as well as making sure it has appropriate uvb lighting.


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## Golden Greek Tortoise 567 (Aug 19, 2020)

That green sand is an impaction risk as well, I would recommend substrate like coco coir, cypress mulch, or fine grade orchard bark.


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## Golden Greek Tortoise 567 (Aug 19, 2020)

I would say she also needs a much larger water dish. Exactly like the one you’re using as a food dish but larger. Sorry to put this all is separate posts, I should have just done this in one.


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## Kekeedoll (Aug 19, 2020)

Taylorlynn48 said:


> That’s hilarious. Im going to seriously start getting creative with mine. Thanks for the ideas  does she chew on the blanket by any chance? Does she recogonize you? Also watch out for the lamps being clamped. It can be a fire hazard. I would get a screen over top of the cage or like slide it in the holes and try to have the lights lay flat on the screen or build a wooden anchor for the lights to hang from.


Thanks for the tip! And no she just covers herself up with. She likes to be wrapped up in it and does it by herself. 
She only likes me and def recognizes me. I like to think anyways. She hides from everyone else and stretches her head out for scratches when she sees me lol


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## Kekeedoll (Aug 19, 2020)

Golden Greek Tortoise 567 said:


> That green sand is an impaction risk as well, I would recommend substrate like coco coir, cypress mulch, or fine grade orchard bark.


Thank you that's what I was wondering!


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## Kekeedoll (Aug 19, 2020)

Golden Greek Tortoise 567 said:


> I would say she also needs a much larger water dish. Exactly like the one you’re using as a food dish but larger. Sorry to put this all is separate posts, I should have just done this in one.


It's definitely appreciated! I'll definitely be making some changes!


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## wellington (Aug 19, 2020)

Sorry but the blanket and green sand needs to go. So does the mirror. You need to think more like a wild tortoise. The mirror will cause stress. They don't want or need friends. Seeing him/herself will cause to think there is another tort in his territory. Stress will hinder all sorts of things and can cause death. The sand can cause impaction and so can the blanket. They don't use blankets in the wild. It's not attached to a blanket.
The enclosure is way too small and will cause muscle problems. It needs to be so much bigger. 4x8 minimum for a Russian which is smaller. Water dish needs to be large enough he can get into it and self soak. Where he comes from is high humidity so you need to have it warm and very humid. Think of Florida's temps and humidity.


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## wellington (Aug 19, 2020)

Kekeedoll said:


> Thanks for the tip! And no she just covers herself up with. She likes to be wrapped up in it and does it by herself.
> She only likes me and def recognizes me. I like to think anyways. She hides from everyone else and stretches her head out for scratches when she sees me lol


She wants to borrow not get wrapped in a blanket. Again think of her/him living where she is suppose to live, wilds of florida. Get the proper substrate and make it deep enough she can burrow. Everything needs to be changed asap.


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## wellington (Aug 19, 2020)

You can try calling the state of Georgia DNR non game number. 
If you want to keep him make all the suggested changes. 
If you can't make the changes try the GA DNR or a local reptile rescue.


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## Pastel Tortie (Aug 19, 2020)

This is a challenging one, because these guys aren't supposed to get outside the state, ever. But it happened, and we're here now. 

Long term, I want to see this one end up somewhere it can do what Florida gopher tortoises do: DIG and BURROW. 

Dig is an understatement with this species. Gopher tortoise burrows are phenomenal, really. There's good reason they're considered a keystone species in Florida. I'm not sure if there's any other tortoise that does what gopher tortoises do, as well as they do it. Then again, I'm not a tortoise expert.


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## Kekeedoll (Aug 21, 2020)

Pastel Tortie said:


> This is a challenging one, because these guys aren't supposed to get outside the state, ever. But it happened, and we're here now.
> 
> Long term, I want to see this one end up somewhere it can do what Florida gopher tortoises do: DIG and BURROW.
> 
> Dig is an understatement with this species. Gopher tortoise burrows are phenomenal, really. There's good reason they're considered a keystone species in Florida. I'm not sure if there's any other tortoise that does what gopher tortoises do, as well as they do it. Then again, I'm not a tortoise expert.


I agree! I just want her happy and cared for. Even if that means giving her to the right people. I'm just trying to care for her the best I can.


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## wellington (Aug 21, 2020)

Kekeedoll said:


> I agree! I just want her happy and cared for. Even if that means giving her to the right people. I'm just trying to care for her the best I can.


If you can make the needed improvements then she is probably best to stay with you unless you can get a rehab or rescue from one of it's natural states to take her.


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## Pastel Tortie (Aug 21, 2020)

I'm citing _The Gopher Tortoise: A Life History_ by Patricia Sawyer Ashton and Ray E. Ashton, Jr. (You can't get far researching gopher tortoises, especially in Florida, without running into numerous papers and publications by one for more of the Ashtons.) The bulleted items below are direct quotes from that book. 

_The daily life cycle of a tortoise is controlled by the need to maintain body temperature within an acceptable range between 12 and 35 degrees Celsius (55 to 95 degrees Fahrenheit)---not too hot and not too cold. _[page 30]
_Deeper burrows usually maintain a temperature above 13 degrees Celsius (55 Fahrenheit) in winter and below 28 degrees Celsius (80 Fahrenheit) in summer._ [page 10] 
So I think that gives you the target temperature ranges. 

Apparently the depth of a gopher tortoise burrow depends on how far down the water table is. They will dig down to right on top of the water table so they have a really humid microclimate in their burrow. In the short term and for inside accommodation, I'm strongly in favor of a humid chamber or other setup that maintains highest humidity.


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## Pastel Tortie (Aug 21, 2020)

From a disease transmission standpoint, she should not go anywhere there would be any risk of her having contact with other gopher tortoises or native box turtles. She needs to be an only child, and she will be happiest that way. In considering another location for her, if she would have to share her enclosure with any other chelonian, that would be a deal breaker. Be protective and be picky.


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## DesertGirl (Aug 21, 2020)

Pastel Tortie said:


> From a disease transmission standpoint, she should not go anywhere there would be any risk of her having contact with other gopher tortoises or native box turtles. She needs to be an only child, and she will be happiest that way. In considering another location for her, if she would have to share her enclosure with any other chelonian, that would be a deal breaker. Be protective and be picky.


This was under FL Gopher tortoise. Is she really a Gopher? Looks just like my Sonoran. Scales on the legs are more prominent though.


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## Pastel Tortie (Aug 21, 2020)

DesertGirl said:


> This was under FL Gopher tortoise. Is she really a Gopher? Looks just like my Sonoran. Scales on the legs are more prominent though.


They're related. Both are _Gopherus_ species. This is the version native to the Southeast.
There's a reason you see a resemblance. 

We're not even supposed to touch them, really. I'm a little jealous of you folks who get to keep their relatives in the Southwest, even if you're just considered custodians. I once saw a baby gopher tortoise in person, and I think it was the cutest thing I ever saw.


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## Melissacoop (Aug 21, 2020)

So exactly what species of tortoise is this and why are they so illegal to own?


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## VegasJeff (Aug 21, 2020)

DesertGirl said:


> This was under FL Gopher tortoise. Is she really a Gopher? Looks just like my Sonoran. Scales on the legs are more prominent though.



Yeah, she looks almost like my Sonoran. I'd be curious to see a better picture of her hind legs. That's one way to help determine difference between species.


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## DesertGirl (Aug 21, 2020)

VegasJeff said:


> Yeah, she looks almost like my Sonoran. I'd be curious to see a better picture of her hind legs. That's one way to help determine difference between species.


Hey! I’m in Vegas too! Far NW, last exit outta town.


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## Pastel Tortie (Aug 21, 2020)

Melissacoop said:


> So exactly what species of tortoise is this and why are they so illegal to own?


https://myfwc.com/wildlifehabitats/profiles/reptiles/gopher-tortoise/
https://myfwc.com/wildlifehabitats/wildlife/gopher-tortoise/rules-and-regulations/ 
http://gophertortoisecouncil.org/gopher-tortoise


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## Melissacoop (Aug 21, 2020)

Thank you. I’m in the city so I’ve never seen one here.


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