# To buy (rescue) or not to buy?



## NickPoole (May 1, 2010)

Today, my partner and I went to our local aquatics centre. To our surprise, in the reptile and amphibian section we discovered 5 new Hermann tortoises.

Here is the issue:
- all five, are inhabiting a small vivarium (about 40x40x30cm)
- the food on display looked like wilted green salad leaves
- there wasn't a great supply of water
- the heat lamp looked too low and not hot enough
- there was a complete absence of UV bulbs

I know that this is the environment that these tortoises will be doomed to suffer if and when they are sold with the expensive, but inadequate, vivaria on offer.

My question is whether or not we should buy two of them, giving them the environment they deserve, or leave them to be sold with misleading information.

I don't want to condone pet shops selling tortoises in this manner, but I know that we can help the tortoises only by buying them.

We would be grateful for any advice given.

Thanks,
Nick and Chez


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## Yvonne G (May 1, 2010)

Print up several copies of Hermann's care sheets and give them (with a good and humble attitude) to the store manager.


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## GBtortoises (May 1, 2010)

If you purchase those tortoises and don't educate the shop owner and employee's you're only encouraging them to replace the ones you purchased with more. If they aren't educated they will simply keep any new tortoises in the same manner that they always have. Buying the tortoises doesn't solve the problem.


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## NickPoole (May 1, 2010)

Thanks for your input. I will certainly attempt to educate the staff; I have doubts about how effective it will be, but I have to try.

Just to clarify, should we buy the tortoises whilst trying to educate the pet shop?


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## TortieLuver (May 1, 2010)

Hello! I agree with GB tortoises. If you do purchase them, I'm sure they will just replace them right away with more and then the cycle with continue with those new ones being in that same environment. Giving them info on the right way to take care of them is a great idea. They should have these care sheets out for customers too. Hopefully they will take in your info with a caring heart.


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## dmmj (May 1, 2010)

Buy them if you feel like it, but try and educate the owner so he can sell healthy and happy tortoises, not sad and sick ones.


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## ROFLCHOPTER94 (May 4, 2010)

I've seen a lot of things like this on other website and the best thing you can do is to educate the shop owner or tell an animal rescue. Don't buy it's like buying wild caught torts so you can rescue them all they want is money.


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## Terry Allan Hall (May 5, 2010)

GBtortoises said:


> If you purchase those tortoises and don't educate the shop owner and employee's you're only encouraging them to replace the ones you purchased with more. If they aren't educated they will simply keep any new tortoises in the same manner that they always have. Buying the tortoises doesn't solve the problem.



If I may point out another side to this: While buying the tortoise(s) doesn't solve the overall problem (mismanagement), it does solve those tortoise's problem.

But, yes, by all means, educate the shop employees to the best of your ability...and printing up a comprehensive care sheet, to be given away to all buyers/potential buyers, is an excellent idea.


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## GBtortoises (May 5, 2010)

Yes, it does solve _those_ particular tortoises dilema but once they're gone the spot is filled with more tortoises. If those tortoises are wild caught then that's more taken from the wild unnecessarily. If they're captive born that's animals that would have displaced wild caught animals. Either way, the wild caught populations lose. What if members of the next group of tortoises sit unpurchased and eventually succumb to the poor husbandry conditions? They will simply replace the dead with even more. I personally don't think that is solving anything. 

Myself, I wouldn't buy the tortoises unless I was sure that the shop was willing to make a better attempt at keeping the next ones properly. That's a hard thing to achieve since many don't care about listening to someone who is intruding on their business practices. And unfortunately, there are a number of pet shops that simply don't care about the welfare of their animals as long as they can get them out the door and get fresh ones in a timely manner. For some it's only about the dollars that the animal represents and not the animal itself. 
If after talking with them, they seemed truly interested in providing better accomodations for the tortoises and they made the effor to do so, I might buy tortoises from them. Only knowing that I am not directly contributing to the sub-standard care of more tortoises by doing so.


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## Terry Allan Hall (May 5, 2010)

GBtortoises said:


> Yes, it does solve _those_ particular tortoises dilema but once they're gone the spot is filled with more tortoises. If those tortoises are wild caught then that's more taken from the wild unnecessarily. If they're captive born that's animals that would have displaced wild caught animals. Either way, the wild caught populations lose. What if members of the next group of tortoises sit unpurchased and eventually succumb to the poor husbandry conditions? They will simply replace the dead with even more. I personally don't think that is solving anything.
> 
> Myself, I wouldn't buy the tortoises unless I was sure that the shop was willing to make a better attempt at keeping the next ones properly. That's a hard thing to achieve since many don't care about listening to someone who is intruding on their business practices. And unfortunately, there are a number of pet shops that simply don't care about the welfare of their animals as long as they can get them out the door and get fresh ones in a timely manner. For some it's only about the dollars that the animal represents and not the animal itself.
> If after talking with them, they seemed truly interested in providing better accomodations for the tortoises and they made the effor to do so, I might buy tortoises from them. Only knowing that I am not directly contributing to the sub-standard care of more tortoises by doing so.



You make some valid points, but we can't personally make the entire world better by our own efforts...however, we can each make our part of that world a little better.

An example: When I was a young man, I joined the Peace Corps, and ended up in a tiny village in what is (currently) called The Democratic Republic of Congo. One day, while in the nearest big "city", to get supplies, we found a group of children, aged 4 to maybe 12, in the marketplace, and discovered that they were to be sold for laborers on the cocoa plantations (boys) or to brothels (girls and younger boys) for $50 each...we were faced w/ the same dilemna as you propose, just on a MUCH bigger scale...

We decided that we had to pool all our money together to buy those children, and take them to a missionary we were friendly with, in spite of our having to participate in a vile business transaction...and those kids had a decent life because we did.

We were only able to help those particular children...not every child who'd ever been kidnapped to be cocoa slaves and/or forced prostitutes.


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