# Mating to egg laying-how long?



## aztortoisegal

I've been looking and am not doing it right or am overlooking the information, so please humor me. 

Have a friend whose sulcata tortoises started mating about two months ago, seems like the last time was about a month ago. Now the female is running around and is almost frantic at times. No new burrows have been dug, but they're widening the one they have out.

So about how long after mating should we expect to see egg laying? She's showing signs of it according to the information I DID find. Thanks for any help you can offer.


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## Tom

To answer your question around 4-6 weeks, BUT...

Mounting does not necessarily mean mating or successful intromission. Many young males go through the motions, but are not successful at fertilization. As far as the digging goes... Your in AZ. Its hot. They dig to escape the heat.

Frantic? Is this female alone with a male? After she realizes there is no escape, she will likely try to hide, possibly in a burrow, and wait for the male to leave the territory. Over the long haul when he does not leave, she will quit eating, the chronic stress will hamper her immune system and she could die.

Tell us more about the situation. How old are these tortoises and what size are they? Are they housed as a pair?


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## tortadise

Well. Quite a few questions first. How old are these animals and what size are they? What's the size of enclosure in which they're both kept? This actually sounds like the female is highly stressed from the male patronizing her. Which is very common. The only pairing of sulcatas that I have had success in was giving a 1.1(1 male and 1 female) an extremely large enclosure and night shed. When even an additional female was added the male began territorial behavior as usual and the female was removed. The 1.1 we keep has a 100x80 outdoor area and a 20x20 heated barn for winter and cool nights. Female has rarely shown stress as she can get away. 

To better answer the egg laying question.
Females will have to start a cycle first. So if this is her first time expecting eggs then it will most likely be random. Just because mating occurred does not necessarily mean eggs will develop and be fertile. Sulcatas naturally lay in late fall through winter to even spring in North American seasons. But each female is a bit different and starts there cycle at different times.


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## aztortoisegal

Oh, thank you both. So friend is in Phoenix, and I'm getting all of my information from him by asking via Facebook, I'm not there to see first-hand, but he's not very internet savvy, so I told him I'd look around and ask questions.

They are five years old, male and female, been together since they were babies. They live outdoors when it's warm, and go outside for the day when it's our winter, not very cold, but inside at night.

Frantic...asked for clarification about that, and he means she paces around and acts like she's waiting for something to happen, whatever that means. The male isn't following her or acting aggressive, and stopped paying attention to her mostly after they mated. 

The pen is about the size of a giant above ground pool, maybe thirty feet by thirty feet, but circular, it's not a square shape, not that matters I'm sure. They have one burrow they share.

I can't think of anything else...but I'll ask if it will matter. Thank you again for the help.


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## aztortoisegal

Oh, and it is not in the least bit hot here, at all. 59 degrees last night, and 71 right now. So, no...weather not a factor.


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## russian/sulcata/tortoise

aztortoisegal said:


> Oh, thank you both. So friend is in Phoenix, and I'm getting all of my information from him by asking via Facebook, I'm not there to see first-hand, but he's not very internet savvy, so I told him I'd look around and ask questions.
> 
> They are five years old, male and female, been together since they were babies. They live outdoors when it's warm, and go outside for the day when it's our winter, not very cold, but inside at night.
> 
> Frantic...asked for clarification about that, and he means she paces around and acts like she's waiting for something to happen, whatever that means. The male isn't following her or acting aggressive, and stopped paying attention to her mostly after they mated.
> 
> The pen is about the size of a giant above ground pool, maybe thirty feet by thirty feet, but circular, it's not a square shape, not that matters I'm sure. They have one burrow they share.
> 
> I can't think of anything else...but I'll ask if it will matter. Thank you again for the help.


the best thing to do for nth tortoises is to be separated, if they keep on living together the female might die or become injured.


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## Tom

aztortoisegal said:


> Oh, thank you both. So friend is in Phoenix, and I'm getting all of my information from him by asking via Facebook, I'm not there to see first-hand, but he's not very internet savvy, so I told him I'd look around and ask questions.
> 
> They are five years old, male and female, been together since they were babies. They live outdoors when it's warm, and go outside for the day when it's our winter, not very cold, but inside at night.
> 
> Frantic...asked for clarification about that, and he means she paces around and acts like she's waiting for something to happen, whatever that means. The male isn't following her or acting aggressive, and stopped paying attention to her mostly after they mated.
> 
> The pen is about the size of a giant above ground pool, maybe thirty feet by thirty feet, but circular, it's not a square shape, not that matters I'm sure. They have one burrow they share.
> 
> I can't think of anything else...but I'll ask if it will matter. Thank you again for the help.



What size are they? At five years some of them are barely hitting five pounds while some are well over 50 pounds. The size matters because it relates to breeding. Males are mature and able to reproduce at about 14". Females usually need to be 17-18". It has little to do with age.

They should not have been raised as a pair and they should not be living as a pair now. It sounds like the one is trying to escape the territory of the other and can't. They need their own separate enclosures ASAP. Second thing is this: There is a good chance they are both male. Males will mount other males as a show of dominance. In my experience, females under male attack shut down and do their best to hide and become reclusive. Males under male attack tend to try to run. Sounds like this one is running to me. Spring time is when the hormones really kick in and make them want to fight, get very territorial and dominate and other tortoise like creature in sight.

Can you get us plastron pics showing tails? This will allow us to confirm sexes.


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## aztortoisegal

I asked him to take some pics of their undersides for me. And because he's good at mixing information up, he said it was the MALE that was acting anxious. Who knows, I'll wait for pictures to see what the deal is. 

So these two tortoises will turn on each other even though they've been raised together from "birth" basically, until now? Even if they haven't shown any signs of dominance? I would imagine that's entirely possible if raging hormones are at play, eh?


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## Tom

aztortoisegal said:


> I asked him to take some pics of their undersides for me. And because he's good at mixing information up, he said it was the MALE that was acting anxious. Who knows, I'll wait for pictures to see what the deal is.
> 
> So these two tortoises will turn on each other even though they've been raised together from "birth" basically, until now? Even if they haven't shown any signs of dominance? I would imagine that's entirely possible if raging hormones are at play, eh?



They won't "turn". Its something that has been brewing since day one. I can guarantee there were previous signs, but most people don't recognize them.

Being raised together does not matter to the tortoises.


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## aztortoisegal

I remember watching the two walk around together once, both poking around at different things they came across, not acting like they were just following each other. And I think it was that same day that I saw one carry a hibiscus flower over to the other that was resting in the shade. He dropped it right in front of the other ones face,and then ambled off.

Was that a trick to get it to trust the other one, so it would drop it's guard?


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## aztortoisegal

I need to remind my friend to send me some pics of their underside.


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## Tidgy's Dad

I don't think torts give each other presents.
Quite the reverse, they'll eat all the best food and leave the others to starve or fight over leftovers.
Must of dropped it by mistake I think, or spat it out 'cos it didn't like the taste.


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## aztortoisegal

Eh, those guys munch on hibiscus like it's going out of style, I swear it looked just like "hey dude, I'm full and you look comfy resting there, so here's one for you. Later man, I'm heading over to the other side of the yard, enjoy your snack, catch you later on when the sprinklers come on."

But you're probably right.


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