# Gout



## Kasia (Jun 6, 2016)

Hi

Friday last week I noticed my Russian Tort Rufin has a swollen neck. Due his ninja climbing skills I gave myself time till monday to see If the swelling will go away. It didn't so I took him to the Vet's office today to see what I'm dealing with. Vet took an x-ray and diagnosed Rufin with gout.


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## CathyNed (Jun 6, 2016)

Kasia said:


> Hi
> 
> Friday last week I noticed my Russian Tort Rufin has a swollen neck. Due his ninja climbing skills I gave myself time till monday to see If the swelling will go away. It didn't so I took him to the Vet's office today to see what I'm dealing with. Vet took an x-ray and diagnosed Rufin with gout.


Kasia can you post a pic of your russian with his neck swelling? My tort also had swelling around his jaw and neck and front legs. Vet said it was low protein in his blood that caused the swelling similar to gout. He also had a kidney infection.


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## Kasia (Jun 6, 2016)

CathyNed said:


> Kasia can you post a pic of your russian with his neck swelling? My tort also had swelling around his jaw and neck and front legs. Vet said it was low protein in his blood that caused the swelling similar to gout. He also had a kidney infection.


Hi
sorry for not finished post - actually i looked at your post before writing - my tort's swelling is not that bad, it's most visible when his neck is back in the shell. My Rufin was 25 years under bad care of previous owners. He was fed only lettuce, tomato and fruits, no UVB, sand a a substrate (70 cm diameter plastic tub) and hibernation under heater. I've changed his diet and conditions. I suspected his not in his top shape but thought that change in conditions, sun and fun on fresh air will make up for years of neglection. But it didn't. What was your prognosis? I try to post a pic but now his sleeping on my lap and I don't want to disturb him - he had a bad day today . In two weeks my Vet will try to cut out the deposit under his neck. Until than Rufin will be soaked daily and take Allupurinal. Is there something I could do more?


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## Pearly (Jun 6, 2016)

So sorry to hear! In humans part of gout management is strict diet which is tricky enough for people and I imagine even more so for torts. Please keep us posted with all details. We are all learning from you


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## CathyNed (Jun 6, 2016)

My vet didnt diagnose gout. She said that the bumps either side of Neds mouth were from low uvb he have leeched the calcium from jaw bone and now there are uric deposits in their place she said they wont go away but are not painful or affecting his eating/biting. They are there to stay though. They look a bit like joules. She did aspirate to take sample but no fluid.

The swelling on his neck has gone down. She said it was edema caused by low protein in his blood. He also has low iron. After a course of antibiotics to treat a kidney infection she said just monitoring of his diet to bring up protein/iron levels and plenty of sun where possible or uvb.

Avoid foods from brassica family....cabbage, spinach,etc as they are linked to gout i believe.
Id the swelling only around neck? 

Is your tort eating?


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## CathyNed (Jun 6, 2016)

My guy had majorly lost his appetite and was very inactive. I syringe fed him critical care and almost immediately say an improvement.After about 8 days of sringe feeding his appetite came right back. im still feeding him with it now even though he has been eating very well since he got his appetite back.


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## Kasia (Jun 6, 2016)

CathyNed said:


> My guy had majorly lost his appetite and was very inactive. I syringe fed him critical care and almost immediately say an improvement.After about 8 days of sringe feeding his appetite came right back. im still feeding him with it now even though he has been eating very well since he got his appetite back.


His active and eating besides the swelling and secondary problems with biting tough things (large dandie leaves) I don't see nothing wrong with him (maybe he is sleeping a bit more than usually). Vet said that the swelling is caused by inflammation of the tissue affected (were crystals grew and destroyed it) and it's better to try to remove it. I feel really sad - his my pall, first pet that I ever had . I hate to see him in pain. I never gave him broccoli - kale yes but as a part of the meal and not very often. As a treat a watermelon piece or an apple slice (once or twice a year). His still sleeping, I will remember to post a pic of his neck when he will wake up to give you an idea of the swelling.


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## CathyNed (Jun 6, 2016)

You can see the bumps either side of Neds mouth. These will not go away but the vet assured me they are not causing him pain.


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## SarahChelonoidis (Jun 7, 2016)

Kasia said:


> . I never gave him broccoli - kale yes but as a part of the meal and not very often. As a treat a watermelon piece or an apple slice (once or twice a year).



If you're looking for dietary causes, animal protein would be the one I'd guess first. I generally hear of gout in vegetarian species fed dog food.

His old care prior to yours - a combination of starvation and dehydration, could also have led to his kidneys being unable to efficiently eliminate uric acid.


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## martaemha (Jun 7, 2016)

Oh no...I'm so sorry to hear that Rufin is sick Kasia, I believe that since you mentioned Rufin was under Maluta's care she probably took some blood tests before. What were the results? Was there anything alarming (uric acid concentration) that indicated he may develop gout? Do you think Maluta would consider consulting this diagnosis with Piasecki from Wroclaw? Maybe he will have some suggestions...Oh, I really don't know this is so sad


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## Kasia (Jun 7, 2016)

SarahChelonoidis said:


> If you're looking for dietary causes, animal protein would be the one I'd guess first. I generally hear of gout in vegetarian species fed dog food.
> 
> His old care prior to yours - a combination of starvation and dehydration, could also have led to his kidneys being unable to efficiently eliminate uric acid.


Rufin was kept in poor conditions for 25 years. I have read a lot and the damage is done. I try to eliminate oxolates and protein as much as I can from his diet. I will cut on additional calcium suplementation as well. He is still active and running so I will do my best to take care of him and not couse him pain. He eats well and pees ok (dilluted whiteish urine no solid urates). If it was not for the swelling I would not noticed him being sick. I will keep updates for other neglected tort owners  Just wanted to share. I cried myself out yesterday and today I am on a mission to keep my shelled friend up and running


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## Pearly (Jun 7, 2016)

Kasia, I am so sorry you are going through this, but please know this doesn't necessarily have to be a death sentence. Many animals just like humans live their entire life span with some chronic ailments and are able to enjoy whatever there may be to enjoy: good food, safe, cozy& comfy dwellings, freedom of movement/activity. I can tell you are very committed to your pet. I've had sick animals and if there's anything I want to share from my past experiences is this: he is not gone yet! Nor is he actively dying! Focus on what you still have rather than what you might be losing. I think there's something very spiritual about caring for a special needs pet. There are many people here that can help you in many ways. You are not alone. Stick around and share your experience with us. I'm sure you'll teach many of us a very valuable lesson. Sending you very warm thoughts and warm healing thoughts going to your Rufin


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## Kasia (Jun 7, 2016)

Pearly said:


> Kasia, I am so sorry you are going through this, but please know this doesn't necessarily have to be a death sentence. Many animals just like humans live their entire life span with some chronic ailments and are able to enjoy whatever there may be to enjoy: good food, safe, cozy& comfy dwellings, freedom of movement/activity. I can tell you are very committed to your pet. I've had sick animals and if there's anything I want to share from my past experiences is this: he is not gone yet! Nor is he actively dying! Focus on what you still have rather than what you might be losing. I think there's something very spiritual about caring for a special needs pet. There are many people here that can help you in many ways. You are not alone. Stick around and share your experience with us. I'm sure you'll teach many of us a very valuable lesson. Sending you very warm thoughts and warm healing thoughts going to your Rufin


 Yep, thanks Pearly  that's what I intend to do


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## Kasia (Jun 16, 2016)

Little update. After almost a week and a half of taking Allupurinal Rufin stoped eating and started sleeping all day long. I stoped giving him meds and today he ate his meal. Probably he does not tolerate it well. I soak him every day, he pees a lot (twice as much as he did usually). The swelling is gone but there is still a bump on one side of his neck. I have a Vet visit on Monday. Keep your fingers crossed


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## JoesMum (Jun 16, 2016)

Kasia said:


> Little update. After almost a week and a half of taking Allupurinal Rufin stoped eating and started sleeping all day long. I stoped giving him meds and today he ate his meal. Probably he does not tolerate it well. I soak him every day, he pees a lot (twice as much as he did usually). The swelling is gone but there is still a bump on one side of his neck. I have a Vet visit on Monday. Keep your fingers crossed


Fingers firmly crossed here for both of you


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## Kasia (Jun 16, 2016)

Rufin's normal side


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## CathyNed (Jun 16, 2016)

Fingers crossed Kasia. I really hope all goes well for you and Rufin.


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## martaemha (Jun 17, 2016)

On Monday our thoughts will be with you and Rufin!!! Please let us know.


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## Pearly (Jun 18, 2016)

That's the kicker about the meds Roget all have side effects! I'm sorry Kasia. Good luck on the vet visit. We'll be waiting for your updates


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## Kasia (Jun 20, 2016)




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## Pearly (Jun 20, 2016)

Well, how is the little cutie???


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## Kasia (Jun 20, 2016)

Sorry for the quality of the pic but Ruf was wiggling A LOT - Vet removed bumps on both sides of his neck (other side started to grow as well). He is a sleepy munchkin now. I prepared for him a temporary setup with paper towels and old duvet covers so he can snuggle. Vet said to visit for a month or so for taking the stiches out. I really feel relived uuuuhhhhh...., Vet was optimistic and there is a chance that with proper conditions and diet it won't grow back and he will be with me for a little while  Yupi!!!!!


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## Yvonne G (Jun 20, 2016)

"a disease in which defective metabolism of uric acid causes arthritis, especially in the *smaller bones of the feet*, deposition of chalkstones, and episodes of acute pain."

Maybe your vet meant goiter instead of gout?


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## Kasia (Jun 20, 2016)

Yvonne G said:


> "a disease in which defective metabolism of uric acid causes arthritis, especially in the *smaller bones of the feet*, deposition of chalkstones, and episodes of acute pain."
> 
> Maybe your vet meant goiter instead of gout?


Hi

Nope, gout at least tortoise verison of it- google translate tells me so..
"t_he uric acid crystallizes and the crystals deposit in joints, tendons and surrounding tissues, an attack of gout occurs. Diagnosis may be confirmed by seeing the crystals in joint fluid or tophus. Blood uric acid levels may be normal during an attack"
_
She said that the bumps also can contain calcium oxolates deposited in the tissue. For torts it's common that deposit is found in neck area.


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## CathyNed (Jun 20, 2016)

Hi Kasia. Hope he ia doing well. This info sounds very similar to what I was told about my tort Ned.


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## CathyNed (Jun 20, 2016)

CathyNed said:


> Hi @Kasia. Hope hes doing well. This info sounds and looks very similar to what I was told about my tort Ned.


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## martaemha (Jun 25, 2016)

Kasia I am glad that the diagnosis is favorable. The most important thing is he is not in pain anymore. Now you've got whole summer to bring the little guy to shape and spoil him rotten I am sure that the almost tropical weather in Poland right now is very stimulating for him and that it will make his recovery faster! My best wishes to both of you.


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