# HELP!!!! Hatchling habitat



## DDrivera (Nov 23, 2014)

Hello, 



We received two hatchlings yesterday and I need help with their home. This is what the owner gave us and he was not knowledgeable because he found hatchlings in his backyard. Please help me fix this place up so they can grow to be healthy. I've done research but the info varies and I'm confused ; four temps, basking area, CHE for the night, 100 watts for 12-14 hours and the list goes on....Idk what to do with this  The bulbs in there are not right.. Is the watering dish too big? They each walk into these little houses which are usually located on the right side of the aquarium but I took them out for the picture. They go outside on warm sunny days for 2-4 hours with water & They are corralled in by a little gate which gives them space to walk and crawl over each other lol

​


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## Maggie Cummings (Nov 23, 2014)

Not appropriate at all...

http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/how-to-raise-a-healthy-sulcata-or-leopard-version-2-0.79895/


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## DDrivera (Nov 23, 2014)

maggie3fan said:


> Not appropriate at all...
> 
> .tortoiseforum.org/threads/african-spurred-tortoise-sulcata-care-sheet.52524/


Any suggestions. My heart is heavy until I fix it. I see you are. Dry knowledgable and Bob looks awesome. Please help me


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## Maggie Cummings (Nov 23, 2014)

http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/sulcata-diet-sheet.64290/

Sorry. If I take longer to correct, I'm shut out and my hands don't work so typing is hard and slow..
Get rid of the pellets right away. They cause 'splay leg', they are hard to walk on...get top sol, orchid bark, coir, cypress mulch.
NOTHING with pine or cedar. Get better hides for them. Caves or half logs are best or a broken clay put on it'd end, not side.They need temperatures over 80 degrees, they need UVB and warming light for night. They need a humid hide, and soak them DAILY. It ain't easy, but once you get them set up correctly, it will be easy...READ THE LINKS!!!
hope this helps


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## DDrivera (Nov 23, 2014)

maggie3fan said:


> tortoiseforum.org/threads/sulcata-diet-sheet.64290/
> Sorry. If I take longer to correct, I'm shut out and my hands don't work so typing is hard and slow..
> Get rid of the pellets right away. They cause 'splay leg', they are hard to walk on...get top sol, orchid bark, coir, cypress mulch.
> NOTHING with pine or cedar. Get better hides for them. Caves or half logs are best or a broken clay put on it'd end, not side.They need temperatures over 80 degrees, they need UVB and warming light for night. They need a humid hide, and soak them DAILY. It ain't easy, but once you get them set up correctly, it will be easy...READ THE LINKS!!!
> hope this helps


Where should their food go I wouldn't want it to wilt since One end should be UVB warming and the other end over 80 degrees ?

Thank you soon much


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## pam (Nov 23, 2014)

Welcome read all the links  there is so much info that will help you


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## Dizisdalife (Nov 23, 2014)

Welcome to the Forum and congratulations on finding two beautiful sulcata. You do want to replace the pellets right away with a substrate that can hold moisture and resist mold. Coconut coir is a good one for this, but there are others. Read Tom's care sheet for suggestions. Here is a link, in case you missed it in the above post. http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/how-to-raise-a-healthy-sulcata-or-leopard-version-2-0.79895/
I used coconut coir. It was messy at first, but once it got packed down it worked great. A couple of bricks lasted until my sulcata went outside full time. You can find it at you local Walmart. http://www.walmart.com/ip/Nature-s-Footprint-Coir-Brick-650g/19664552 or other garden shop. Or at a pet store. http://www.petco.com/product/104906...uRyjmoDATBVWH9kpUmxonW-4mo6IgSteHWBoCR6nw_wcB

While you are shopping for coir you should also pick up a Thermometer/Hygrometer. I liked the ones with a wire probe because they take up almost no space in the habitat. One like this will work for you.http://www.walmart.com/ip/Taylor-TA...meter-Thermometer-Hygrometer-TAP1523/38805953. Maintaining the correct temperature and humidity for your sulcata is a MUST.

I found that the easiest way to maintain the correct temp is to use a thermostat to control the heat source for ambient and night time temps. Iused a CHE, but can't remember if it were 60 watt or 100 watt. The thermostat was one like this.http://www.petco.com/product/108340/Zilla-Temperature-Controllers.aspx
I am still using the one I bought 4 years ago to control the heat in my sulcata's outdoor house. So they are a good investment.

You will need to keep the top of your habitat covered to keep the heat and humidity in. I see that it mostly covered now, but completely covered is best. Once you get a good, moist substrate in and the temperatures set up you will have made vast improvement over what you have now. Please read Tom's thread on caring for baby sulcata. There is much to learn.


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## Grandpa Turtle 144 (Nov 23, 2014)

Hello and welcome to the TFO from AZ,USA . Torts rule ! Have a great tort day !


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## tortdad (Nov 23, 2014)

Welcome. Please read up. All your questions will be answered in those links.


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## Yvonne G (Nov 23, 2014)

I don't know why Maggie's links never work, but I think I've fixed them now. If you can't get the links to work, then just go to the Sulcata section. The 'pinned' threads at the top of the section will be very helpful to you and your tortoises.


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## Tom (Nov 23, 2014)

Hello and welcome. Here are my standard links. After reading these you will have a much better idea of what to do.
This one was already linked, but here it is again: http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/how-to-raise-a-healthy-sulcata-or-leopard-version-2-0.79895/

Feeding:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/for-those-who-have-a-young-sulcata.76744/

Pair housing:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/pairs.34837/

Sunning:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/simple-sunning-enclosure.104351/
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/cheap-easy-simple-sunning-enclosure.14680/
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/thread...table-but-safe-outdoor-baby-enclosures.30683/

What not to do:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/beginner-mistakes.45180/


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## Jodie (Nov 23, 2014)

Welcome and congrats on your addition to your family. Once you have read the links, and get them set up, be sure to ask any questions you have.


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## leopard777 (Nov 23, 2014)

is this size consider a hatchling ? look quite old to me in the pics . 2-3 year old ?


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## DDrivera (Nov 23, 2014)

Update- I made some changes and your input is greatly appreciated. I will be purchasing a water bowl and basking ramp tomorrow but I soaked them today. I read the links provided by Maggie3fan but I have questions regarding placement of hiding log, water dish, basking area, food. Where should the cool side be and how often do u clean the tank? I purchased cypress mulch until I order the coco coir. My UVB IS LOCATED ON THE LEFT AND MY CERAMIC HEATING ELEMENT IS ON THE RIGHT. If possible can u please post pics of your habitats for ideas  Also my turtle shells are not smooth and I notice that's a bad thing, can they get better? I have calcium powder. Thank you EVERYONE for your help and support


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## DDrivera (Nov 23, 2014)

Update- I made some changes and your input is greatly appreciated. I will be purchasing a water bowl and basking ramp tomorrow. I read the links provided by Maggie3fan but I have questions regarding placement of hiding log, water dish, basking area, food. Where should the cool side be and how often do u clean the tank of mulch






? I purchased cypress mulch until I order the coco coir. My UVB IS LOCATED ON THE LEFT AND MY CERAMIC HEATING ELEMENT IS ON THE RIGHT. If possible can u please post pics of your habitats for ideas  Also my turtle shells are not smooth and I notice that's a bad thing, can they get better? I have calcium powder. Thank you EVERYONE for your help


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## Jodie (Nov 23, 2014)

That UVB bulb is bad. The coiled ones cause eye damage. Please don't use that. Use the tube or MVB.


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## Grandpa Turtle 144 (Nov 23, 2014)

Thank you for your saport DDrivera


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## leopard777 (Nov 24, 2014)

nice wallpaper , did you get a humidity/temperature monitor ?


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## ZEROPILOT (Nov 24, 2014)

Yes. Find your receipt and replace that coil bulb with something safer.


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## tortdad (Nov 24, 2014)

Cypress mulch is perfectly fine for them but that uv bulb is not. Compact fluorescent are fine for other reptile but not torts and turtles. You need one of two other types of bulbs. One type is a MVB (Mercury vapor bulb) it is a basking spot bulb and a UV bulb built all in to one. They are a bit expensive but work well. However, with your current set up I would not recommend this bulb to you (just wanted you to know what it is). Your tank is too small so a UVB would heat the entire thing up too much plus you already have a CHE. The other type of UVB bulb is the tube type florescent. These don't put out heat for a basking area, just light and UVB. I would use this for your set up. 
The rough areas of your guys shells is called 'pyramiding' and no it's not reversible. It is caused by your little guys (who are not hatchings) being raised in an environment with little to no humidity. If you you raise that humidity now the new growth will come in smooth and over the next several years will help fill in that shell and it will become much less noticeable. 

Have you given any thought as to being able to build larger enclosures for them? Even at the size they are now they should each have about 32 square foot (4'x8') area. 

Place the hide in the warm side (but not under the basking area) and make the moss in it moist so it's a humid hide. Be sure your night time low temps are where they need to be. Low temps with high humidity will make your little one sick with RI (respiratory infections). 

These setups work best if you place your lights and basking lamps on timers to run anywhere from 8-12hrs a day. Put your CHE on a thermostat so it comes on and off as needed. The key to your humidity is making a closed chamber so it stays in your tank, not evaporating and leaving. The humidity needs to be at a constant 80%. Not 80 when you add water then down to 45% 20 mins later. Keep it trapped and keep it high.


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## tortdad (Nov 24, 2014)

Forget about water bowls and use a terra cotta plant saucer for Home Depot. It should cost you like $1.50 and they may great water and food plates. They are shallow so the can't drown if the flip and have low sides to them making it ease for them to get in and out. They have plenty of traction and will help keep nails trimmed. 

Go to Home Depot and get yourself a $10 home comfort meter made by accurite (in the outside garden section). They measure temps and humidity, it will also keep track of daily highs and lows. I'll find the link for you so you know what your looking for. You just put a battery in it and drop it in the bottom of your tank.


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## tortdad (Nov 24, 2014)

http://m.homedepot.com/p/AcuRite-Di...mperature-Comfort-Monitor-00619HDSB/202260980

And hers a pic of mine soaking in a plant saucer. Just be sure to push them down into your sub straight so the top of the saucer is flush with the sub straight. 



Here is a pic of my box turtle enclosure. It shows the saucers and the humidity meter in there.


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## DDrivera (Nov 24, 2014)

tortdad said:


> http://m.homedepot.com/p/AcuRite-Di...mperature-Comfort-Monitor-00619HDSB/202260980
> 
> And hers a pic of mine soaking in a plant saucer. Just be sure to push them down into your sub straight so the top of the saucer is flush with the sub straight.
> View attachment 106280
> ...


Are both of those saucers for water? What's the black saucer for?


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## tortdad (Nov 24, 2014)

DDrivera said:


> Are both of those saucers for water? What's the black saucer for?



Ones for water and ones for food. The black one is a small paint tray. Box turtles are semi-aquatic so the paint tray is a swimming pool. It's shallow and has a slopes side so the can get in and out easy. They work for tort soak ponds too.


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## tortdad (Nov 24, 2014)

DDrivera said:


> Are both of those saucers for water? What's the black saucer for?



That bulb is also a no go. It's the same thing as a coil bulb just shaped in a U.


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## DDrivera (Nov 24, 2014)

I purchased these items today. Are they suitable? Now I'm on the hunt for a covering? I don't know how to keep the heat in without my wood covers as shown in the picture in the first post


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## tortdad (Nov 24, 2014)

DDrivera said:


> I purchased these items today. Are they suitable? Now I'm on the hunt for a covering? I don't know how to keep the heat in without my wood covers as shown in the picture in the first post
> View attachment 106400
> View attachment 106401



That is the right type of bulb but I can't say for sure if it will work. You need to read the back of the box and see how far away from the tort it can be mounted and see how tall your tank is to make sure your not too far away. By chance did the have a high output model of the same kind of UVB bulb? 

That thermometer is okay but you'd be better off with one made by the same manufacturer that measures humidity too. Home Depot sells them for $10. I'll post a link for you and I'll post a link to another thread talking about tube UVB lights. After you read that you'll see why I'm asking if they had a high output one.


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## Tom (Nov 24, 2014)

You are making progress. A few things to note:
You need a much thicker layer of substrate. 3-4". Spot clean daily. No need to replace it.
You need a humid hide, not just an open half log.
You need a thermostat for your CHE. This will maintain ambient temps day and night.
The 18" tube will work for UV, but it will need to be mounted no more than 10-12" from the tortoises.
You still need a basking bulb. The MVB would fulfill this need and eliminate the need for the tube lamp.
They need to be separated. Tortoises do not do well in pairs. Did you read the link above? Post #11.

If you wish to stop the pyramiding in progress, you are going to need a large closed chamber for each tortoise. Like this: http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/closed-chambers.32333/


All of these things are explained in more detail in the care sheet.


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## tortdad (Nov 24, 2014)

I posted the link earlier for that home comfort meter. Yours does measure humidity but it won't measure it in the tank. That model has a probe you stick in that tank and the digital read out goes outside the tank. That read out has a sensor in it that measures temp and humidity, the probe only measures temps. The way that is supposed to be set up is put the probe outside your house and the readout inside, like on a kitchen counter. The probe gives you your "outside" temps and the readout gives you your "inside temps" and reads the humidity in your house. The meter I put a link to has no probe. You drop the entire digital readout down in your tank and it read temps and humidity in your tank. 

Setting up your torts is confusing isn't. Your on the right track now just with stuff that's oh so close. 

I'll find that link to the tube lights now. I would say that I you had box turtles that light would be fine but since you have torts you need a bulb that puts out way more UV. You'll be surprised at just how little uv those bulbs put out after you read my thread.


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## tortdad (Nov 24, 2014)

http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/more-tube-uvb-s.106095/


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## tortdad (Nov 24, 2014)

Tom said:


> You are making progress. A few things to note:
> You need a much thicker layer of substrate. 3-4". Spot clean daily. No need to replace it.
> You need a humid hide, not just an open half log.
> You need a thermostat for your CHE. This will maintain ambient temps day and night.
> ...


 Don't you think the MVB would be too hot for such a little tank?


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## DDrivera (Nov 24, 2014)

tortdad said:


> I posted the link earlier for that home comfort meter. Yours does measure humidity but it won't measure it in the tank. That model has a probe you stick in that tank and the digital read out goes outside the tank. That read out has a sensor in it that measures temp and humidity, the probe only measures temps. The way that is supposed to be set up is put the probe outside your house and the readout inside, like on a kitchen counter. The probe gives you your "outside" temps and the readout gives you your "inside temps" and reads the humidity in your house. The meter I put a link to has no probe. You drop the entire digital readout down in your tank and it read temps and humidity in your tank.
> 
> Setting up your torts is confusing isn't. Your on the right track now just with stuff that's oh so close.
> 
> I'll find that link to the tube lights now. I would say that I you had box turtles that light would be fine but since you have torts you need a bulb that puts out way more UV. You'll be surprised at just how little uv those bulbs put out after you read my thread.


Yes, this is very difficult because I'm easily confused with the choices and info.. I am searching everywhere for items lol however, I want to give them a good home. I'll take back the thermometer and uvb because my tank is 48 inches long and 16 inches deep. Now I really don't know what to do  tomorrow I'm going to Home Depot and buying the terra cotta saucer and thermometer once U post it. If I could use the MVB DURING the day and CHE at night that would be ideal but I'm no expert; you are  I'm also ordering this because they say it works wonders, any input


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## DDrivera (Nov 24, 2014)

Is this appropriate?


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## DDrivera (Nov 24, 2014)

Tom said:


> You are making progress. A few things to note:
> You need a much thicker layer of substrate. 3-4". Spot clean daily. No need to replace it.
> You need a humid hide, not just an open half log.
> You need a thermostat for your CHE. This will maintain ambient temps day and night.
> ...


Tom how do I find out which one is more dominant. One is more scared and takes a long time to show its head when held and the other is very reception when I talk to it and caress its head and indee chin. I am sad that I need to rehome a sulcata. My husband will kill me if I buy another tank and two of everything lol right now I have a 50 gallon tank and am struggling to put a home together  I'm so overwhelmed with info i feel like my CHE is drying out my stuff so I see the importance of a humid hide.. I'm confused


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## tortdad (Nov 25, 2014)

DDrivera said:


> View attachment 106405
> 
> Is this appropriate?


That's the one. You can get them at lowes too, even saw one at a bass pro shop once.


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## tortdad (Nov 25, 2014)

DDrivera said:


> Yes, this is very difficult because I'm easily confused with the choices and info.. I am searching everywhere for items lol however, I want to give them a good home. I'll take back the thermometer and uvb because my tank is 48 inches long and 16 inches deep. Now I really don't know what to do  tomorrow I'm going to Home Depot and buying the terra cotta saucer and thermometer once U post it. If I could use the MVB DURING the day and CHE at night that would be ideal but I'm no expert; you are  I'm also ordering this because they say it works wonders, any input



I use a MVB during the day and Che at night for my Redfoots. You can do the same thing too but know that your going to dry your stuff out quickly so you'll be adding moisture a lot. I would save your money and buy a $10 timer at Home Depot or lowes, not the plug strip you have listed. You can get basic mechanical timers that allow you to plug one light into for $5 and once with two outlets for $10. That plug strip has several outlets but your MVB and or tube UVB and basking lamp are all that you need plugged into a timer for 8-12 hrs a day. I'll post a link to a timer too  rule #2 about tort raising is that pet stores don't carry very much stuff for us and what they do carry is expensive and not as good as what you can find at a hardware store. 

Your CHE needs to be on a reptile thermostat. I think I paid $50 for mine at a pet store because I didn't want to wait for shipping from Amazon where they are closer to $40. I'll see if I can find a link to that too. 

If you do go MVB I would go with a small one. 

Also, let's be very clear on something. In an earlier post you said I was the expert. I'm still a intermediate level tort owner just trying to help you out. @Tom is the actual expert. He has decades of experience with this species and you can take whatever he says as gospel. The older members post this info over and over again so I feel that it's the responsibility of new members (once they've got there sets up complete and correct) to help other new members so the older ones aren't repeating the same stuff over and over again.


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## tortdad (Nov 25, 2014)

Timer 
http://m.homedepot.com/p/Defiant-15...echanical-Big-Button-Timer-49810DI/203678109/

Any Walmart will carry this too. The other one is the same thing as this just allows you to plug 2 items in it and is $9.94


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## tortdad (Nov 25, 2014)

Heres the thermostat I have. This is the 1000 watt model which is more than you need at the moment. They make a 500 watt model too but just know you'll need the bigger one later down the line when your torts are bigger and require stronger lights but the smaller one will for you now if you want to save the cash. You DO NOT want this on the timer and it is to run your CHE only. 
Lights, basking and UVB during the day on a timer and CHE on a thermostat so it can come on and off as needed. This combined with you adding moisture as needed and you'll maintain a great environment for your torts. 

Keep a close eye on your torts. Bulling is not a matter of IF, with sullys its a matter of when. Some do fine while small like that and some don't. As some point you WILL need to separate them or one will suffer, if it's not already.


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## tortdad (Nov 25, 2014)

There's a section in here dedicated to nothing but enclosures and lighting. Take a look in those and you'll get plenty of ideas.


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## Tom (Nov 25, 2014)

DDrivera said:


> Tom how do I find out which one is more dominant. One is more scared and takes a long time to show its head when held and the other is very reception when I talk to it and caress its head and indee chin. I am sad that I need to rehome a sulcata. My husband will kill me if I buy another tank and two of everything lol right now I have a 50 gallon tank and am struggling to put a home together  I'm so overwhelmed with info i feel like my CHE is drying out my stuff so I see the importance of a humid hide.. I'm confused




Your's is a dilemma faced by every new person. You have vets, books, breeders, and internet "experts" all telling you to do different and conflicting things. Plus the pet store trying to sell what is on their shelves. What to do? How do you know which one is right?

I find it helpful to determine two things. What "stake" does someone have in this, and what results can these various people show you. What is to be gained by each of these various people? What do they want from you, and what is their driving motivation to try and ell you what to do? I think there is an element of wanting to do the right thing in most people. Pet store folks want your money though. So do vets. Breeders might want to make a sale. Internet nerds might have some sort of ego thing going on. I don't think anyone wants to harm your tortoise, and there are always going to be differing opinions. Tortoise husbandry techniques and understanding has grown tremendously in the last few years. Leaps and bounds over the growth of the previous two decades. Many have not caught on to the mistakes of the past or the new understanding of how things work that some of us now have.

This leads me to the second of the two things to determine that I mentioned above. Results. What do people from each of the above mentioned groups have to offer you in the way of proof that _their_ methods and philosophies should be followed by new hobbyists? Vets often have nothing to offer. Most of them don't even keep torts and are reading out of a vet handbook in the back area. If you find a good one with actual hands on experience, treat him/her right and give them your business. Breeders have their adults and they have new hatchlings which are sold off ASAP. They are not in the business of raising tortoises in various ways to see which methods produce the best results over 6, 12 or 24 months. They need to get the burden of baby care off their shoulders as fast as they can. Pet stores? These are usually staffed by kids who like animals, but have little practical knowledge. I know. That used to be me. I've got 8 years in the retail pet market, plus a year of wholesale... That leaves us with this group of internet nerds you have stumbled upon. There are hundreds of pics of my tortoises on this site showing my results. My "End of Pyramiding" thread is now 35 pages long and shows my hatchlings from hatching until now at 4 and half years old. There are also hundreds of other tortoise keeper all over the world use my methods or something similar and getting the same positive results. I don't stand to gain anything from you. I'm not selling anything. My interest is in helping people avoid the same mistakes that I have made in the past and have healthy happy tortoises.

You will have to choose whose advice to follow. Good luck.


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## DDrivera (Nov 25, 2014)

tortdad said:


> I use a MVB during the day and Che at night for my Redfoots. You can do the same thing too but know that your going to dry your stuff out quickly so you'll be adding moisture a lot. I would save your money and buy a $10 timer at Home Depot or lowes, not the plug strip you have listed. You can get basic mechanical timers that allow you to plug one light into for $5 and once with two outlets for $10. That plug strip has several outlets but your MVB and or tube UVB and basking lamp are all that you need plugged into a timer for 8-12 hrs a day. I'll post a link to a timer too  rule #2 about tort raising is that pet stores don't carry very much stuff for us and what they do carry is expensive and not as good as what you can find at a hardware store.
> 
> Your CHE needs to be on a reptile thermostat. I think I paid $50 for mine at a pet store because I didn't want to wait for shipping from Amazon where they are closer to $40. I'll see if I can find a link to that too.
> 
> ...


 Thank you!!! You don't know how much I appreciate the support. My husband laughed at me and did not take me serious when I said I was on a tortoise forum, its an amazing place of resources and knowledge. Thank you for taking the time out of your life to help me. Have a great holiday.


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## DDrivera (Nov 25, 2014)

Tom said:


> Your's is a dilemma faced by every new person. You have vets, books, breeders, and internet "experts" all telling you to do different and conflicting things. Plus the pet store trying to sell what is on their shelves. What to do? How do you know which one is right?
> 
> I find it helpful to determine two things. What "stake" does someone have in this, and what results can these various people show you. What is to be gained by each of these various people? What do they want from you, and what is their driving motivation to try and ell you what to do? I think there is an element of wanting to do the right thing in most people. Pet store folks want your money though. So do vets. Breeders might want to make a sale. Internet nerds might have some sort of ego thing going on. I don't think anyone wants to harm your tortoise, and there are always going to be differing opinions. Tortoise husbandry techniques and understanding has grown tremendously in the last few years. Leaps and bounds over the growth of the previous two decades. Many have not caught on to the mistakes of the past or the new understanding of how things work that some of us now have.
> 
> ...


Tom, thank you again. You and Tortdad have been great to me and my new additions.


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## tortdad (Nov 25, 2014)

@Cowboy_Ken 

Ken is selling a Bulb you may want


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## DDrivera (Nov 25, 2014)

I actually purchased this bulb and now I'm stuck trying to figure out night bulb! Should I have kept CHE?


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## DDrivera (Nov 25, 2014)

tortdad said:


> @Cowboy_Ken
> 
> Ken is selling a Bulb you may want


Should I buy a CHE bulb for night again lol and use my new MVB for 8-12 in day?


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## DDrivera (Nov 25, 2014)

DDrivera said:


> I actually purchased this bulb and now I'm stuck trying to figure out night bulb! Should I have kept CHE?
> View attachment 106473
> View attachment 106473
> View attachment 106473


Just realized no UVB AHHHHHHH


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## tortdad (Nov 25, 2014)

Yes CHE is good. Maybe a smaller one then the 100watt you had.


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## DDrivera (Nov 25, 2014)

Well it's been a crazy 3 days and I think I almost got it but now I realized this is too small lol however, this will have to do until the new year lol Here is what I have.. I wasn't sure where to place the humid hide; under the CHE or MVB? I ordered a humid temp thermameter on Amazon because every Home Depot and Lowe's could not find them in stock due to the Christmas items taking their location in the store (irritating). I also ordered a little fake plant to throw in the mix.

I plan to keep both my sulcata's but I'm worried for the stress level I read in the thread. Would they be ok until January? I plan to have my husband and dad Build me a home for them to be together but seperated. Any suggestions on that? I'd hate to rehome them


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## DDrivera (Nov 25, 2014)

tortdad said:


> Yes CHE is good. Maybe a smaller one then the 100watt you had.


What do U think of the changes?


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## DDrivera (Nov 25, 2014)

Tom said:


> Your's is a dilemma faced by every new person. You have vets, books, breeders, and internet "experts" all telling you to do different and conflicting things. Plus the pet store trying to sell what is on their shelves. What to do? How do you know which one is right?
> 
> I find it helpful to determine two things. What "stake" does someone have in this, and what results can these various people show you. What is to be gained by each of these various people? What do they want from you, and what is their driving motivation to try and ell you what to do? I think there is an element of wanting to do the right thing in most people. Pet store folks want your money though. So do vets. Breeders might want to make a sale. Internet nerds might have some sort of ego thing going on. I don't think anyone wants to harm your tortoise, and there are always going to be differing opinions. Tortoise husbandry techniques and understanding has grown tremendously in the last few years. Leaps and bounds over the growth of the previous two decades. Many have not caught on to the mistakes of the past or the new understanding of how things work that some of us now have.
> 
> ...


Tom can you look at my latest post please, I value your input


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## tortdad (Nov 25, 2014)

Plants help hold humidity, offer them additional hiding spots and give them more things to explore. This is why we say large enclosures. You need room for the furniture, plants and still have room to roam around.


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## tortdad (Nov 25, 2014)

The gauges would have been moved to the outside garden area next to the pool chemicals.... At Home Depot anyways.


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## Tom (Nov 25, 2014)

DDrivera said:


> Tom can you look at my latest post please, I value your input



Looking good.

I suggest something like this for future housing:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/closed-chambers.32333/
You could divide it in the middle and make it a 4x4' for each one. That will last a little while. Eventually you could take out the divider and build a second one so they'd each have a 4x8'. This will last them until they reach 10" or so, at which point you could move them outside full time with a heated night box. Will get in to examples of that later...


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## Maggie Cummings (Nov 25, 2014)

DDrivera said:


> Just realized no UVB AHHHHHHH



No, you're wrong. I just got exactly the same bulbs and in the small print on the side with 125W at the top. Under the "English" label the third line reads..."it provides the proper balance of ultraviolet light including UVA and UVB"...
I realize that you are taking in an incredible amount of information, but remember, take what fits for you and leave the rest. I use a couple of CHE's, I personally don't care for them. I mostly use 60 watt black light bulbs. They are $3.49 at Kmart, put out consistent heat that is not too much and doesn't need fancy rheostats to control them. Tom doesn't like them because they put out a pale bluish light, but none of the animals I have raised has ever complained about the light to me. They all either sleep in a hide or with their face in a corner, they don't even know a light is there.. But that's just my opinion, I have never actually had a tortoise tell me it was not annoying. My sis who has had a turtle and tortoise rescue for about 30 years also uses black light bulbs. Just giving you an option, and showing you there are different ways of keeping . You do need a deeper substrate and a humid hide. That will help the pyramiding. The shy one is being bullied whether you see it or not. A lot of bullying is mental. I'm not sure who decided that's possible, but I've seen it and I believe it. So you really do kinda have to separate the two as bullying can be fatal.
I see you are in the great sunny state of Southern California...You wouldn't need a UVB light at all if you could put those guys outside for a couple of hours a day. Or even 1 hour. And you don't have to get another expensive aquarium...get a 50 gallon plastic bin at Walmart or Kmart or some mart...cheap and will work good for you.
I have to say you are trying harder then any newbie ever on this forum...


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