# Baby Hermann's Will Not Eat Food



## Mr.Puff (Oct 1, 2009)

Hello,

I have had a baby Hermann's tortoise since Saturday. He ate the first two days but has since stopped. The humidity in his tank is around 35% to 45% and the heat ranges from 78 to 95 degrees (it's a 24" by 24" 30 gallon square). I have tried spring mix, grassland tortoise food, and even grapes. Instead of eating these he insists on consuming the moss I have sprinkled around his cage to hold moisture. 

He also will not stay on the surface, but instead burrows. I have not seen him sit in the basking light for long either. If he is on the surface he is very inactive or asleep. Only sometimes will he wander around his cage to find things.

This is the first day he hasn't been completely skitish.

What should I do?

Thanks,
Mr.Puff


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## egyptiandan (Oct 1, 2009)

Welcome to the forum 

What did he/she eat for the first 2 days? If your Hermanns ate the first 2 days it had to be a bit active. 
Your Hermanns is eating (the moss), just not what you want it to eat. I would take the moss out as it can sometimes cause impaction (not being able to pass food through the system).
Keep soaking him/her at least once a day and hopefully the moss will pass out of the system no problem.
How long are your light on for?
It would be great if you could post some pictures of your set-up so we can see whats going on. 

Danny


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## Mr.Puff (Oct 1, 2009)

Danny,

The lights stay on for 14 hours. He just pooed today, so impaction is not a problem yet. He nibbles on everything inside of his cage (including his fake plant), but won't touch actual food. It's almost as if he does not want to explore his surrounds. Today, after waking him up, he did walk around a bit.

This is the first day he has poked his head out when I pick him up. He also doesn't flinch or go in his shell anymore when I am adjusting stuff in his cage (like adding food or water). Maybe he will be OK when he gets more used to me? Perhaps he is in a kind of shock after being taken away from all the other tortoises he used to have around?

I have changed his setup a couple times after getting him. I went from a heat pad to a basking light. Then I throttled the basking light down from 111 degrees at the hot spot to 95 degrees. At night I used to have a red light, but his cage was getting up to 82 degrees and I wanted it closer to 75. Now he has no light at night.

The substrate is coconut bark with a little bit of moss mixed into the top layer and spread around to raise the humidity. I'm thinking about getting an automated mister because my house humidity is so low, in California, that his cage was getting down to 20% or lower.

His name is Sherman (like the tank and because it rhymes with Hermann's).

Thanks,
John


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## Maggie Cummings (Oct 1, 2009)

I keep the substrate moist because that's where you want the humidity for the tortoise, at his level not your level. Babies are just that, babies. They sleep a lot and explore some. I personally would keep a black light on at night. I don't like my babies getting too cool. I take Spring Mix and add other stuff to it then I cut it up into pieces small, for small mouths. I get my babies up first thing every morning and I put them in for a warm soak then I take them out after 10 minutes and put them right in front of the food. I believe babies need routine, doing the same thing the same way at the same time every day. That way they get used to eating at a certain time and they continue to eat at that time...Just my experience and opinion.


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## tortoisenerd (Oct 1, 2009)

Welcome to the group. Although I don't keep Hermann's, I don't think a mister is the most appropriate thing. That would be better suited for a rain forest species. You can add water to the substrate as needed every couple days. Mix it up with your hands to keep it moist but not wet. If you pick up a handful it should hold shape bit not drop water. The coconut coir holds more moisture and is easier for babies to walk on. I would suggest that for you next time. It comes in a brick. You could just just that if you want, or mix it with a little play sand (for kids play boxes, at home improvement stores), or organic potting soil.

I would put out a pile of spring mix with a light dusting of a pure calcium powder out near the hide where the tort stays, near a warm area. Replace it twice a day. What's the temperature gradient like? What changed between the time the tort stopped eating? Ideally you want at least one warm hide and at least one cool hide. That piece of driftwood isn't adding anything right now. With a hatching you don't want them climbing and flipping over. I would rearrange the furnishings so the food is hear a hide so the tort feels safe to go to it. 

Also, a hide should be near the basking area so the tort feels safe to do that. You may need a larger enclosure to accomplish multiple hides. Boxes, fake plants, plastic containers (not clear), are all great. If the tort is eating anything in the enclosure excessively (beyond one test bite), take it out. In my opinion you do not need such high humidity (or moss) for a Hermann's. The humidity from a moist substrate should be sufficient as they are not quite as prone to pyramiding; it will simulate their natural environment well. I think if you mix up a moist substrate (using the coconut coir not bark), you should raise the humidity at the substrate level to an acceptable range. As long as it's moist (but not damp, and if it's moist it needs to stay warm), many people don't even bother to measure the percentage.

In addition to spring mix you could try any of the greens listed on russiantortoise.org, food lists on this forum, and other reputable sites. Radicchio is a favorite as the red color is enticing. Keep offering the food, make sure the tort is warm enough to eat, and feels safe going to the food as well as basking. No grapes or fruit please. The Grassland Tortoise food (or Mazuri) are fine commercial diets, but I've heard of some torts not liking the Grassland food so you may want to focus on getting him to eat anything healthy at this point.

If you end up getting a larger enclosure (you will need one soon anyways), I would go with something like a Rubbermaid bin or a tortoise table (wood box) as they are more appropriate for a tortoise than an aquarium. Lots of discussion here if you want to search, but they can trap heat, are difficult to create a temperature gradient, torts think they can get out, and don't have as much air circulation. Maybe you can still return the tank?

Has he been for a vet check up yet? Where did you get him? How was he housed and fed before?

What's the temperature at night in his enclosure? In my opinion...If it's above 70 or so I think you're good from what you said about the daytime temperature. You want to aim for a night temperature drop a little below the low day time temperature, and the absolute low value depends on the age of the tort. For hatchlings it's 65-70, and for older torts it's 60-65. Agree you don't want it 82. If your house isn't at least 70 at night in winter, you can use a red light, black light, or ceramic heat emitter. If it's too warm you either raise the bulb or use a lower wattage. Also remember where the tort is in relation to where you measure the temperature.

Best wishes. Congrats on the new addition!


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## Mr.Puff (Oct 2, 2009)

Hey Kate,

I purchased the tortoise from the Upscale Reptile Show in Sacramento. Blue Beast was there from Las Vegas selling all sorts of hatchlings. They were feeding them spring mix salad. This is the same stuff he ate the first two days. He was given a tiny piece of grape just to entice him. He sniffed the grape and just walked away.

This will be his second night with lower night time temperatures than day time. He may have been getting stressed because the average night temperature, of 82, was higher than the day time of 78. Maybe the temperature anamally was keeping him awake?

He likes to dig about 1/2 inch down like you see in the photos. For a couple of days he was digging really deep down almost to the bottom. I think this was due to low humidity. Since then, yesterday, I have raised the humidity and he is staying closer to the surface.

He has not been inside his log yet, but he has climbed on top of it twice. He also has not found his food and water dish by himself. I have to put him on them. At least now he walks around after I place him somewhere. Until yesterday he would just sit where placed and fall asleep.

The temperature by his food is around 80 degrees. On top of the log it is 78 degrees. Between the plant, drift wood, and water it is around 95 degrees. Where he is burrowed I am guessing is around the high 80's. Tomorow I will change his substrate to hold more moisture and to be easier to walk on.

Do I need play sand or can I use the reptile sand sold at the pet store? Maybe reptile sand and coconut coir, bed a beast, or eco earth?

Thanks again,
John

Two typos... anomaly* and tomorrow*.


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## Mr.Puff (Oct 6, 2009)

Sherman passed away. Refer to this post: http://www.tortoiseforum.org/thread-9539.html

Tyler over at Bluebeast Reptile has decided, without asking, to give me a new Hermann's free of charge. He doesn't know why Sherman died and says my setup is suitable. I stress that I don't blame him for what happened--he is a good breeder and takes care of his torts. Some things are just out of your control.

--John Harmony


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## Kymiie (Oct 7, 2009)

Hey, So sorry for your loss, I had a hatchling he died 4 months after of respiritry problems it was the pet shops fault as they gave me all the wrong stuff, for start they gave me a viv. When he died they said i couldnt haave another since sheffie was only insured for 1 week. So this time i bought an older baby around 1 and had him a year in a tort box...he seems fine!

I feel partly to blame for sheffie but thats all i can do it will stay with me forever.
I know how you feel xxx


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