# Classroom Tortoise?



## AnthonyC (Oct 20, 2011)

The more I think about it the prouder I am of my students! I think they deserve a reward! They've been begging me to get them a class tortoise. What do you guys think? I've read some negative things about classroom torts/turts here so I've been hesitant to bring it up. I don't want anyone to think that theirs would receive the same negligent care that the others on here have.  Naturally I'd be fronting the cost (district pays for nada these days), but we could all take part in its care. I honestly think it would make an excellent learning tool! They could write essays on their care & I could have them surf TFO for facts and opinions! Does anyone have any suggestions on which tortoise would be good for them? Thanks in advance for your feedback!


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## Jacqui (Oct 20, 2011)

I think it is a great idea. The reason folks tend to be against classroom tortoises is the simple fact the teacher doesn't know enough about tortoises, you do. You understand things like stress, lighting, diet, ect.., I also assume the tortoise will get weekends and holidays at home with you. 

I vote Russian for their small size, low cost, eager appetites, ability to handle stress, and their hardiness.


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## AnthonyC (Oct 20, 2011)

Oh yeah, definitely they'll be with me on weekends, holidays, summer, spring break, etc. You mentioned stress... do you think it would be too much stress having students moving about as much as they do? I looked into CBB Russians and they're a little on the pricey side, plus they're damn hard to find. Are there any other torts out there that don't get too big? I have a feeling that this is gonna cost me some $$$. I'll need to purchase EVERYTHING from the ground up! 



Jacqui said:


> I think it is a great idea. The reason folks tend to be against classroom tortoises is the simple fact the teacher doesn't know enough about tortoises, you do. You understand things like stress, lighting, diet, ect.., I also assume the tortoise will get weekends and holidays at home with you.
> 
> I vote Russian for their small size, low cost, eager appetites, ability to handle stress, and their hardiness.


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## harris (Oct 20, 2011)

Jacqui said:


> I think it is a great idea. The reason folks tend to be against classroom tortoises is the simple fact the teacher doesn't know enough about tortoises, you do. You understand things like stress, lighting, diet, ect.., I also assume the tortoise will get weekends and holidays at home with you.
> 
> I vote Russian for their small size, low cost, eager appetites, ability to handle stress, and their hardiness.


You're suggesting he transport the tortoise back and forth every weekend, throughout the cold winters of New York?


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## Turtulas-Len (Oct 20, 2011)

I gave my grand daughter a pair of adult box turtles when she was in the second grade and at least one went to school in Colorado Springs Colorado every year until she started middle school,All the teachers and students enjoyed them, She would take them home on weekends and when school would be closed for holidays.They even got eggs but none hatched. Len


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## AnthonyC (Oct 20, 2011)

I don't think that transportation in the winter will turn out to be a major issue. My car is approx 30ft from the front door of the school. I have auto start so I can warm it up ahead of time. Couldn't I utilize one of those reusable hand warmers that hunters use during egress? 



harris said:


> Jacqui said:
> 
> 
> > I think it is a great idea. The reason folks tend to be against classroom tortoises is the simple fact the teacher doesn't know enough about tortoises, you do. You understand things like stress, lighting, diet, ect.., I also assume the tortoise will get weekends and holidays at home with you.
> ...


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## Jacqui (Oct 20, 2011)

harris said:


> You're suggesting he transport the tortoise back and forth every weekend, throughout the cold winters of New York?



Sure am! Much safer then leaving in a building with no one to watch in case power goes off or bulbs burn out, ect.., He can fix a well insulated carrier and use hand warmers. He isn't going to be walking two miles home up hill all the way, is he???? That is another reason for the Russian, they could handle cold better if needed.



Personally, I would go with an adult, not a hatchling. The stress, once the tortoise gets use to it, will be a normal thing to it, so no or little stress.


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## ChiKat (Oct 20, 2011)

My only concern would be having a big enough enclosure!
We had a classroom tortoise in 4th grade which was awesome  We were able to bring it home on weekends, breaks, etc. though which was obviously not a good idea  
(And it was a Sulcata that lived in an under bed container on pine shavings, and was only fed bananas...but anyways...)




Jacqui said:


> Sure am! Much safer then leaving in a building with no one to watch in case power goes off or bulbs burn out, ect.., He can fix a well insulated carrier and use hand warmers. He isn't going to be walking two miles home up hill all the way, is he???? That is another reason for the Russian, they could handle cold better if needed.



Good point! And I second the adult Russian idea  They are usually cheaper than hatchlings too


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## AnthonyC (Oct 20, 2011)

There you go again, Jacqui! A well-constructed argument supported by relevant facts.  I do see Harris' point. I should've addressed that when I proposed the idea in the first place. Here are my parameters: 55 gallon aquarium, humid hide, food/water bowl, lid, 2 light fixtures (CHE, MVB), substrate, plastic transportation container, hand warmers. I'm thinking somewhere in the range of $250 (I have a 55g that I can "donate"). Any lower cost alternatives to a small Russian?


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## dmmj (Oct 20, 2011)

As long as it is well taken care of I say go for it. I vote russian or box turtle both would be good choice for a class room.


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## AnthonyC (Oct 20, 2011)

Well sounds like Russian Tortoise is going to be the wisest choice... even if Jacqui says it's so!  Now who do we know that is a reliable Russian Tortoise breeder/dealer? Please don't say Petco/Smart!


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## Jacqui (Oct 20, 2011)

AnthonyC said:


> Well sounds like Russian Tortoise is going to be the wisest choice... even if Jacqui says it's so!  Now who do we know that is a reliable Russian Tortoise breeder/dealer? Please don't say Petco/Smart!



Petco!!!! (Actually it's the only place I actually buy Russians from...). You want a breeder/dealer or how about a rescue or Craig's list type?


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## AnthonyC (Oct 20, 2011)

Okay, not to sound mean but I don't want someone's Craigslist abused tortoise b/c I don't want to drop a fortune on vet bills. As far as rescues... Don't forget I'm in NY and unlike some of you lucky folks out there in the warm weather states it's highly unlikely that a tort will come a knockin' on my door & the only rescue I've heard about here is one that TerryO had mentioned and, I believe, that's on Long Island. Now when I PM'd her asking about how it operated I'm pretty sure she said they won't adopt out to New Yorkers... not sure why, but rules is rules!


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## Jacqui (Oct 20, 2011)

Julie said no NY? Hmmm did she only mean that for sulcata?

Okay, another question before we get too excited here, will the school allow such a salmonella ridden creature as a tortoise?  I know many schools won't.


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## AnthonyC (Oct 20, 2011)

Ya know I think you may be right. It was a Sulcata that I inquired about. Hell yeah the school will allow it! I've been investigating this for a little while now. Ya see I "got it like that", Jacqui! 



Jacqui said:


> Julie said no NY? Hmmm did she only mean that for sulcata?
> 
> Okay, another question before we get too excited here, will the school allow such a salmonella ridden creature as a tortoise?  I know many schools won't.


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## Yvonne G (Oct 20, 2011)

May I suggest making up a flyer telling of the proposed class project and asking for donations? Donation of either money, supplies or whatever. Then hang it up on the bulletin board where the whole school can see it, and send one home with each kid in the class. Maybe you won't have to put out so much on the initial cost of the project.


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## fbsmith3 (Oct 20, 2011)

I don't know how close you are to Massachusetts, but Western Mass. Turtle rescue has some Russian Tortoises that could use a home. I just read his Craigslist ad today and put it up as reposted craigslist ads. 

http://www.tortoiseforum.org/Thread...mass-turtle-rescue-Westfield-MA#axzz1bNXTSMYo


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## AnthonyC (Oct 20, 2011)

I thought about that too, Yvonne. Unfortunately the school has regulations in regards to asking for donations. Teachers and staff can't directly ask for donations, but they can run fundraising events for certain items such as sports equipment ie, uniforms etc. I seriously doubt if I could get the nod for a classroom tortoise fundraising event, especially since it would be MY responsibility whenever school was not in session... what I mean is that it would be MY property so in essence I would be asking for money to buy myself a tortoise. You REALLY have to pay attention to school politics. If you don't cover all the bases you could really end up in hot water!!! 



emysemys said:


> May I suggest making up a flyer telling of the proposed class project and asking for donations? Donation of either money, supplies or whatever. Then hang it up on the bulletin board where the whole school can see it, and send one home with each kid in the class. Maybe you won't have to put out so much on the initial cost of the project.





Thank you! Mass is quite a haul from here, but I'll check it out!! 



fbsmith3 said:


> I don't know how close you are to Massachusetts, but Western Mass. Turtle rescue has some Russian Tortoises that could use a home. I just read his Craigslist ad today and put it up as reposted craigslist ads.
> 
> http://www.tortoiseforum.org/Thread...mass-turtle-rescue-Westfield-MA#axzz1bNXTSMYo


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## CtTortoiseMom (Oct 20, 2011)

Could you pitch it to the PTO? They might be able to make the "tortoise housing and care" a line item in the budget. It's late, I will think of a way to pitch it to the PTO or BOE and I suggest getting a permanent Viv for the room.


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## AnthonyC (Oct 20, 2011)

Okay Erin get this... a permanent viv would be considered furniture & furniture is definitely NOT in the budget. The PTO may be a route to take... they like me  The BOE, on the other hand, are NO friends of mine! They find my teaching style unorthodox, albeit effective. They don't care about results, they just want you to be a marionette so they can pull your strings and I refuse to sell out or keep my mouth shut! 



CtTortoiseMom said:


> Could you pitch it to the PTO? They might be able to make the "tortoise housing and care" a line item in the budget. It's late, I will think of a way to pitch it to the PTO or BOE and I suggest getting a permanent Viv for the room.


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## Yvonne G (Oct 20, 2011)

PTO???? I thought that was something you hook your disc up to on the back of the tractor.


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## CtTortoiseMom (Oct 20, 2011)

Our Board of Ed is very similar unless it is election time. They typically are a bunch of stiff beurocrats that have higher political aspirations and are using the board to get their face out there. 

If you could tie the tortoises in with your curriculum? That is how the school alway's get's me (as a parent) when they ask for thing's regarding "curriculum support".

Yvonne, PTO is Parent Teacher Organization.


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## AnthonyC (Oct 20, 2011)

HAHA! Some schools have a PTO-Parent Teacher Organization and others have the good ole PTA-Parent Teacher Association. Ya'll may remember the ole song Harper Valley PTA... Yee-Haw! 



emysemys said:


> PTO???? I thought that was something you hook your disc up to on the back of the tractor.


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## Torty Mom (Oct 20, 2011)

I know what PTO is but I have no idea what BOE is? 

What if you have a class bake sale and use the proceeds to help fund the tortie stuff? When you get the tortie you can have the kids journal about it! I think it's great. I'll send you $10.00  

Better yet, my kids can send your kids some "Flat Stanleys" and your kids can write my kids back!


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## fbsmith3 (Oct 20, 2011)

BOE = Board of Education.


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## AnthonyC (Oct 20, 2011)

Erin we've got 2 lawyers, a wannabe politician, and 2 real estate agents. All the latter are interested in is getting the inside information on land the school intends to buy & sell. The wannabe politician has aspirations of becoming mayor of our one horse town. The 2 lawyers... NO COMMENT!



CtTortoiseMom said:


> Our Board of Ed is very similar unless it is election time. They typically are a bunch of stiff beurocrats that have higher political aspirations and are using the board to get their face out there.
> 
> If you could tie the tortoises in with your curriculum? That is how the school alway's get's me (as a parent) when they ask for thing's regarding "curriculum support".
> 
> Yvonne, PTO is Parent Teacher Organization.


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## Torty Mom (Oct 20, 2011)

I should warn you, my kids are 4 and 5 and can only write: the, see, like, to, is, my, I and are.


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## AnthonyC (Oct 20, 2011)

Oh man Flat Stanleys! I love those guys! Unfortunately these are middle school kids and I don't want to be responsible for whatever anatomically correct Flat Stanleys get sent back to your poor kids! That is VERY generous of you to offer to make a donation, but I think this one is on me! I can't organize a bake sale... it's more or less in my contract. To be quite honest I don't even know if I can request it. 



Torty Mom said:


> I know what PTO is but I have no idea what BOE is?
> 
> What if you have a class bake sale and use the proceeds to help fund the tortie stuff? When you get the tortie you can have the kids journal about it! I think it's great. I'll send you $10.00
> 
> Better yet, my kids can send your kids some "Flat Stanleys" and your kids can write my kids back!





My little Angels are 13, 14, & 15 and they would take those words and form the following sentence-- I like to see my... well you can fill in the rest! 



Torty Mom said:


> I should warn you, my kids are 4 and 5 and can only write: the, see, like, to, is, my, I and are.


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## CtTortoiseMom (Oct 20, 2011)

I am excited, we will figure this out Anthony! Going to bed, I have to try and beat you to Pretend Chat!!!


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## BaddestMarie (Oct 20, 2011)

-You should buy a Russian from PETCO. They are only $100-$110 && thats the cheapest they sell them. PetSmart is even more expensive. I honestly dont know where else you can buy a Russian for cheaper then the price i mentioned. If you buy from a breeder im not sure if they sell adults && they tend to be more expensive. If you get a Russian from PETCO, they are mostly adult Russians. Also, i honestly feel like the tortoises in PETCO need to be bought because they just sit there && nobody buys them


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## AnthonyC (Oct 20, 2011)

G'night & G'luck! I'll be up by 5:00 the latest... don't ask me why but I'm sure I'll be up! 



CtTortoiseMom said:


> I am excited, we will figure this out Anthony! Going to bed, I have to try and beat you to Pretend Chat!!!


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## stephiiberrybean (Oct 21, 2011)

Your going to let your students come on TFO and find out about your Turkey Twizzler addiction!!

I think a class tortoise is an excellent idea. 
Russian is defiantly a good idea.

I'm trying to think of a way to help you out but cannot think of one at all, sorry!


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## tyler0912 (Oct 21, 2011)

It's a Great Idea! 
I Also reccomend a russian.....
A donation would be great.....But as stated you can not....
When i was in my primary school (4-11years) When i first started when i was 4years old we had tadpoles and kept them until frogs and realeased them....
We incubated 6 duck eggs.....all hatched we cared for them until we give them to a farm (Hence why i learnt to incubate quailchicks).....
We also had a frog in a mos filled terrarium....We found a poorly hedgehog kept it treated it for mites....fleas etc then give it too a rescue they later released it...
I LOVED IT I THINK THAT IS WHY I LOVE ANIMALS SOO MUCH! 
In my high school ( 11-16years) We have guinea pigs (3) And the teachers alow the children to take them out the cages Without be wathed etc.....no teachers in the room.....It's great that they trust them.... But i dont' even trust some of my bestfriends.... I think they should be supervised.....
I was once with a friend and he kicked a cat we had an argument and i walked home alone in the dark and got lost sooo.......
You would be a great teacher for doing that for your students i bet they would highly appreciate it......
Hope all turns well....Good-Luck! x


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## CtTortoiseMom (Oct 21, 2011)

So here is what I was thinking...

If you click on the link below it will take you to a grant opportunity from a sanitation department. It is a challenge for a school to Reduce, Reuse and Recycle and the school can earn up to $5,000. What I suggest is finding a grant like the one listed below, getting the whole school involved in competing for the money and earmarking the money for tortoises by tying them into whatever they are offering the grant for.
http://www.schoolgrants.org/Grants/new_england.htm

What do you think? I will look for more grants when I have time. I was hoping to find some sort of "wildlife awareness" grant.


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## AnthonyC (Oct 21, 2011)

That is a great idea! You have to watch the "particulars" of those grants. Geographic location is important--I believe that grant is only available to schools in NYC. I'm not sure but even if a grant is awarded to a school doesn't the $ have to pass through the hands of the BOE. I've heard horror stories about $ being ear marked for one thing, passing through the hands of those unscrupulous b******s, and then ending up going to some other interest of theirs that they deemed to be more important. 

Gut feeling... I'm flying solo in this one. The politics of schools has changed so much. They'll probably look at this, ask themselves "how can we profit from this?", and then say do it alone!


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## harris (Oct 21, 2011)

You're not flying solo. I am willing to help. There is nothing better than the youth of today becoming interested in GENUINE REALITY. My guess is that this is going to run around $300+ or so to do it right, all the way from the insulated transport box to the tortoise itself. 

And the profit comment, although true, is disturbing. A school's profit should be a child walking away with an education.


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## AnthonyC (Oct 21, 2011)

Thank you SO much, Harris. I think you're price is a little more realistic than mine. I realized that I already have the ceramic lamps for the CHE/MVB, bowls & plastic containers can be purchased at the Dollar Store, I believe a small sweater box (for transport) can be acquired for about $5. Basically all I'll need to get is the MVB/CHE, the lid for the aquarium, hand warmers, and of course the tortoise. Food won't be a problem b/c I'll just pick up a little extra when I get my Sullie's veggies. Naturally, I'm going to have to do a little research on Russian Tortoise husbandry b/c they're not my forte'. I think that all the help I'll be needing from you guys is good advice and support. Jacqui gave me the contact information for a Russian breeder, but I'd definitely welcome more information on people you guys have dealt with and feel are reputable. THANKS AGAIN! Please keep the advice and ideas rolling in! 
BTW--Couldn't agree more w/what you said about school's profit!


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