# Baby tortoise having a stiff leg and neck



## franz_see (Jul 26, 2015)

Good day,

Ecsta, our little indian star tortoise, is injured  We don't know what happened, but we found him this morning with a stiff front right leg and a stiff neck (angled to the left). 





__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1047056505305471





When we soaked Ecsta, he couldn't use his front right leg to bring his head above the water  So we reduced the amount of water in his tub and soak him relatively quick. And then we took him to the yard (same routine as before) so that he can get some exercise and graze. We hope that would help his condition and it worked! While in the yard, he was starting to regain his range of motion back. We were relieved. After that, we brought him back to his indoor enclosure and feed him chinese cabbage, jute leaves, cabbage and carrots (again, as part of their routine though the specific food varies from time to time). 

And then in the afternoon, around 4pm, we took them out in the yard to get some exercise and to graze again (as part of their routine). Ecsta just tuck himself inside this shell and slept. While taking him back to their enclosure (around 5pm), we noticed that his problems came back - a stiff front right leg and a stiff neck angled to the left  That's the time we brought him to the vet.

Vet is unsure what's wrong as well but suspects that he might have caught himself somewhere in between rocks or something and he might have strained himself trying to get unstuck. Unfortunately, since Ecsta is too small and too young, they can't administer meds or even bandage him. All we can do is add food supplements to help him heal himself. Vet said to observe him in the next 3 days and to come back next Saturday for another check up. 

Personally, I think he's sleeping in weird positions which is why he's getting stiff legs and necks. But that's just a hypothesis as well 

In the meantime, I bough them some supplements, and I'm in the process of getting mazuri. I've up their temps (to increase their metabolism and speed up the healing process), and I've removed their hides (which are small pots made of coconut fiber) so that he can't sleep with his arms pressed against it from the inside (not sure if that's what happened). Tomorrow morning, I'll soak him again with warm water and let him exercise and graze in the yard again. I'm hopeful that he'll be ok tomorrow morning. 

But if anybody's experienced this before, we'd be grateful if you can share some information. Thanks


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## franz_see (Jul 26, 2015)

While checking up on Ecsta, I found him like this (still sleeping). I'm not really sure how he got to this position  He was exactly how I left him sleeping, except that he's on his side


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## Angel Carrion (Jul 27, 2015)

I'm commenting to bump this post so someone that may know something can say something. Hopefully you get an answer soon. @Yvonne G might know something


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## leigti (Jul 27, 2015)

Did the vet take any x-rays? When he is stuck in that position will he relax or move differently when you are handling him? Is he in the enclosure with other tortoises? I'm just wondering if maybe he dislocated or broke something or if the other tortoises are bowling him. I really don't know but hopefully others will be along soon with some ideas.


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## motero (Jul 27, 2015)

Ants? I Have seen other baby tortoises have similar reactions to ant bites. Almost a week before they feel normal again.


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## franz_see (Jul 27, 2015)

Angel Carrion said:


> I'm commenting to bump this post so someone that may know something can say something. Hopefully you get an answer soon. @Yvonne G might know something



Thanks @Angel Carrion . Really appreciate it.


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## franz_see (Jul 27, 2015)

leigti said:


> Did the vet take any x-rays? When he is stuck in that position will he relax or move differently when you are handling him? Is he in the enclosure with other tortoises? I'm just wondering if maybe he dislocated or broke something or if the other tortoises are bowling him. I really don't know but hopefully others will be along soon with some ideas.



@leigti . No, not yet. She said there's not much she can do even if she does an x-ray because she wont be able to bandage him or administer medicine. My guess is that on the next check-up, and Ecsta is still like that, we'd do an x-ray.

Also, the vet said it doesn't seem to be fractured or dislocated. He doesn't seem to be in pain. You can touch his leg or head and he doesn't mind. Also, his eyes are wide open and he still actively eats, poops and walk around. All positive sign that he's not in pain.


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## franz_see (Jul 27, 2015)

motero said:


> Ants? I Have seen other baby tortoises have similar reactions to ant bites. Almost a week before they feel normal again.



@motero Interesting. How do I verify if it's ants? Also, if it is ants, what can I do to fix it?


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## franz_see (Jul 27, 2015)

Update : I uploaded a few more videos here for those interested in seeing him graze, soak, or walk. Maybe it can help paint a better picture of his condition

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B8MdbENn5YomcWJMMXNZbEIxWms


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## motero (Jul 27, 2015)

franz_see said:


> @motero Interesting. How do I verify if it's ants? Also, if it is ants, what can I do to fix it?


If there are any ants any where he has been it is a likely cause, Good care and time will fix it. Others may know why, but all i know is ant bites are really serious to small tortoises.


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## motero (Jul 27, 2015)

After looking at your videos, That is exactly how they act after ant bites, looks like stiff joints or temporary paralysis.


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## leigti (Jul 27, 2015)

If it is and you can get rid of all your substrate or sprinkle it withFOOD Grade DE. You can also spread that around outside. Rinse off the tortoises real well. You should be able to see the ants.


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## franz_see (Jul 27, 2015)

motero said:


> If there are any ants any where he has been it is a likely cause, Good care and time will fix it. Others may know why, but all i know is ant bites are really serious to small tortoises.





motero said:


> After looking at your videos, That is exactly how they act after ant bites, looks like stiff joints or temporary paralysis.



Thanks @motero . That is very interesting. I've never seen ants in their enclosure, but there are definitely ants (and other insects) in the yard where they graze. How long does an ant bite normally take effect? Reason I ask is because the first time I saw the problem was Sunday morning - so maybe he got bitten around 4pm Saturday - which is his last yard time, and we didnt notice it till the next morning. But then, it got better after an hour in the yard. But Sunday 4pm, we noticed it came back again (maybe he got bit again in his Sunday morning yard time)? What do you think?

Also, is there any ointment I can use to ease the bite? or anything i should avoid if it is indeed ant bites (i.e. would warm soak or anything else make it worse? ).


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## franz_see (Jul 27, 2015)

leigti said:


> If it is and you can get rid of all your substrate or sprinkle it withFOOD Grade DE. You can also spread that around outside. Rinse off the tortoises real well. You should be able to see the ants.



Ok. I'll do that. Haven't seen ants in their enclosure but I'll do an overhaul just in case. Thanks for the tip!


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## franz_see (Jul 27, 2015)

@leigti @motero I searched around for ant bite treatments and i stumble upon this http://m.wisegeek.org/what-is-the-best-treatment-for-ant-bites.htm .

According to this, aloe vera can be applied to ant bites. I know aloe vera is safe to be fed to torts (in moderation). So im thinking of applying it to Ecsta. If the hypothesis is correct (that a. it's an ant bite and b. that aloe vera can help treat it), then it may have some positive effects. And so far, I cant think of negative effects. 

Im just trying to think how to apply it though - wipe it with a cotton bud tip, or mix some aloe vera extract on his water tub during soaks. 

What do you guys think?


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## franz_see (Jul 28, 2015)

I just applied some aloe vera to my Ecsta. I'm not sure if it would work. Hopefully it does by tomorrow morning.


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## franz_see (Jul 30, 2015)

I am not sure if the aloe vera worked, or if it's the supplements or what, but Ecsta is getting better  He's not yet at 100%, but at least not as worse as before  I've uploaded a few more videos, but starting Day 3, he's started to get better


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