# My babies!! Lol



## New Desert Tortoise Mommy (Sep 20, 2013)

So the one with the eye problem is named Scooby Doo

this is an old picture my tank doesnt look like this no more. My boyfriends tortoise is named Rango


And mine is I hope a female but I doubt it lol but if she is I named her Sally from Nightmare Before Xmas


Heres a few pictures of them from the other day nd them last night all cuddled up haha I will post more of them later



please and thank you


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## wellington (Sep 20, 2013)

Very cute. However, you are getting new substrate real soon, right?


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## New Desert Tortoise Mommy (Sep 20, 2013)

Well I used top soil nd that was a horrible idea nd I dont have coco coir in my area so idk what to use im just gona use pellets

please and thank you


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## wiccan_chicken (Sep 20, 2013)

May I ask why the top soil was a bad idea? I'm only asking because I use it for my torts.


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## New Desert Tortoise Mommy (Sep 20, 2013)

Well they keep getting it in their eyes nd its moist and its making the water filthy. . Nd they keep rubbing their eyes poor things idk what to use... 

please and thank you


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## Jabuticaba (Sep 20, 2013)

Cute babies! 


May[CHERRY BLOSSOM], Hermann's [TURTLE][TURTLE], & Aussies (@YWG)


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## wellington (Sep 20, 2013)

Are you still using the coil bulb? If so, you may be hurting your torts eyes. That substrate has been told before is not good for them. There are so many that are good for them, why would you want to use what is bad? They are used to the dirt, they don't live on pellets in the wild. It may be a little harder work for you to have to change there water more often, but, that's what we take on when we bring animals into our life's, to take care of them properly. If you don't want to use the dirt, how about cypress mulch? Also, do you have grass that is free of pesticides and fertilizer? Dig some of that up and put in with them. This way they have the grass between them and the dirt. Sure hope you will change to what's best for them!


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## EchoTheLeoTort (Sep 20, 2013)

I suggest cypress mulch. Unfortunately i dont have a tort anymore but i use it with my tegu. Or reptibark works great too


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## New Desert Tortoise Mommy (Sep 20, 2013)

Well turn out the coil bulb I use is perfectly fine. It use to have the eye problems but what people dont know is that they changed it and added a special coating on it so it doesnt hurt there eyes any more. I have very good professional people I see and talk to who specialize in desert tortoises. And theses guys were born in dirt but was place on rabbit pellets. So I am going to be using pine pellets nd thats what im sticking to. Nd top soil nd coco coir isnt dirt its a special kind of soil. Desert tortoises dont live in soil haha well my babies cant live in it. It got in their eyes and they kept getting stuck nd toppling over. And trust me I have had many animald but the water wss ridiculous it only took 5 mins for it to be completely filthy so I found pine is perfectly fine for them. Nd its what they r use to . Nd they actually love it  thank u for everyones advice nd care for my babies. 

please and thank you


Well im going to grow nd also get patches of dirt for them to go to  that doesnt have anything on it  haha 

please and thank you


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## ascott (Sep 20, 2013)

May I ask why you joined this forum?


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## Tom (Sep 20, 2013)

Your coil bulb is NOT fine, and no the problem is NOT fixed with any added special coating. You have living proof right in front of your eyes. We see this here on the forum all the time, and I see it in person regularly.

The people you are talking to are giving you very old school info, and it will lead to all of the typical old school problems. We know better now, but many people have not kept up on current info and new findings. Ask the old school people what percentage of their hatchlings survive. Ask them why they want you to keep them dry, when in the wild they inhabit damp burrows.

Those pellets are NOT good for their feet and legs, and the dry air associated with them is not good for your baby tortoises. It leads to dehydration and organ damage, which is often fatal.

We are trying to help you and you are not listening. I find that very frustrating. If you didn't want to listen to us, and already had a trusted "expert" helping you, why did you ask and waste our time? I'm not mad because you are not doing it "my" way. I'm frustrated because I have watched countless DT babies die because people house them just as you are housing yours now. The unfortunate price for you having to learn the hard way, will be paid by your babies.

I truly wish you and your babies the best of luck, and I hope they are among the percentage of babies that make it.


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## ShellyTurtlesCats (Sep 20, 2013)

*Re: RE: My babies!! Lol*



Tom said:


> Your coil bulb is NOT fine, and no the problem is NOT fixed with any added special coating. You have living proof right in front of your eyes. We see this here on the forum all the time, and I see it in person regularly.
> 
> The people you are talking to are giving you very old school info, and it will lead to all of the typical old school problems. We know better now, but many people have not kept up on current info and new findings. Ask the old school people what percentage of their hatchlings survive. Ask them why they want you to keep them dry, when in the wild they inhabit damp burrows.
> 
> ...



Thank you! Very well put.

__________
~ Shelly ~


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## mainey34 (Sep 20, 2013)

Unfortunately the things you are telling us that you are doing are not good care for your torts. Those are old school practices. Unfortunately in the wild desert torts. Do not live on pellets. They live in the soil...


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## ascott (Sep 20, 2013)

> Those are old school practices.



I have to say, I am pretty old school in alot of ways..however, I have never thought that pellets were healthy...nor have I ever though dry was the way....so I kinda believe the wrong way is more of an issue here than the phrase "old school practices"


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## BeeBee*BeeLeaves (Sep 20, 2013)

Not to say who ever is advising you sucks. Nevamind. They suck.

Rabbit pellets suck.
Coil bulbs suck. 
Pine pellets suck.

This is from another place, just for fun (sulcata-station.org): 

Organic Topsoil and Bed-A-BeastÂ® mixture -- Because we live in a true desert with very low humidity (frequently less than 15 percent), we use a 50/50 mixture of organic topsoil and Bed-A-BeastÂ® to recreate the "high-humidity microclimate" that is found in wild tortoise burrows. This mixture allows the humidity right at the surface of our tortoise table to vary from almost none underneath the heat lamps to 40-50 percent in the corners of the table.

[Bed-A-BeastÂ® is a brand name for a substrate made from ground-up coconut husk fiber. (Other manufacturers also make this type of product and their names for it are different. All of them are sold as a compressed brick. When you soak the brick in a gallon of warm water, it will absorb the water and expand quite a bit.]

Once you've rehydrated the coconut fiber substrate, you should mix it with an equal amount of topsoil. Your goal is to create a mixture that is not muddy or extremely wet; it should be damp but not soggy. 

AND LOOK AT THIS:

Substrates to Avoid

You should AVOID using the following substrates with your turtles or tortoises:
â€¢*Alfalfa pellets -- These tend to get moldy when wet; some tortoises respond to the dust with allergy-like symptoms (runny nose and eyes, etc.)*
â€¢Corncob or ground walnut shell -- These substrates do not digest easily and can cause potentially fatal blockages if the tortoise eats enough of them.
â€¢*Cedar shavings, pine shavings, or pine bark -- These substrates contain oils that are toxic to tortoises.*
â€¢Sand, Calci-Sand, crushed oyster shells -- These substrates can cause impactions in the digestive tract if the tortoise eats them. They also abrade the tortoise's bottom shell, which can allow infections to occur

Everyone is just trying to be sure you do not lose your babies. They are fragile as all heck and can turn up dead on you just like that (snaps fingers).

Do a search on this forum for baby dead or baby died. Heartbreaking. We want you to avoid that. That is all. Except again, to be sure, the advise you are getting sucks, sucks, sucks. Tortoise keeping has evolved and you are being told to do things that are so last century.

That's all. Except that it sucks.


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## Tom (Sep 20, 2013)

I just want to add that we suggested a whole bunch of possible substrates for you. If the soil you bought didn't work for you, why not try something else? I don't like "top soil" either, so I know where you are coming from, but there are many other substrates that are cheap, easy to find, and work well.

We are all only trying to help. It saddens all of us when someone loses a tortoise, and those of us with some years of experience can see it coming a mile away. Are these your first desert tortoise babies? I've raised dozens of them over the years. I've done it many different ways and followed the advice of many people. With all this trial and error I have learned what works and what doesn't. I have also learned from the trial and error of the people I interact with. The reason I know what works and what doesn't work is because some of those babies didn't do as well as others. Some of them didn't live. Back in the 80's and 90's we didn't have the internet and access to all these people with all this experience. We ALL had to stumble around in the dark and learn everything the hard way. Sheesh. It took me nearly 20 years to figure out how to raise a smooth sulcata, and what I (we) was (were) doing wrong. We're trying to shorten your learning curve, and save you some of the heartache that some of us know all to well.

And I hope you go back and share what we are telling you with whoever is telling you this stuff. Please invite them here to talk to us. We will be polite. We will explain our points of view and why we have them. We will tell the person(s) why we think what they are advising is wrong and give examples to back it up.

My intent is not to insult, offend or belittle you in any way. I don't wish to drive you away from the forum either. My intent is to help you raise healthy tortoises and share what I have learned over many years.


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## Team Gomberg (Sep 20, 2013)

The term "wrong way" is better than old way.

OP, I am disappointed in your choices. 

Sent from my TFOapp


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## BeeBee*BeeLeaves (Sep 20, 2013)

I think New Desert Tortoise Mommy is being pulled this way by us and being pulled that way by someone in person. Like taffy.


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## Team Gomberg (Sep 20, 2013)

*Re: RE: My babies!! Lol*



BeeBee*BeeLeaves said:


> I think New Desert Tortoise Mommy is being pulled this way by us and being pulled that way by someone in person. Like taffy.



Solution-
She should look at how "theirs" turn out raised the dry way. Death rates, health problems etc. 
Then look at how DTs turn out when raised a natural way. 
Does she want to raise healthy, smooth growing, natural looking tortoises? Or does she want to gamble death, leg issues, blindness, health problems, pyramiding and stunted growth?

Sent from my TFOapp


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## BeeBee*BeeLeaves (Sep 20, 2013)

Yes, amen.


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## ascott (Sep 21, 2013)

Please do not be chased away....while there are many ways to care for and raise a tort....some may be a bit passionate in convincing that their way is the only way....

There are a balance of micro climates necessary for a healthy tort...please understand that no one here means any harm or offense to you and I understand you are new to tortoise care...so be patient with us while we learn the appropriate manner to share important information with you...


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## goReptiles (Sep 21, 2013)

If you didn't like the dirt making the water messy, maybe try putting large, flat stones around the dish so that it reduces the dirt that gets trailed in


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## thatrebecca (Sep 21, 2013)

Like Go Reptiles said, a nice easy fix for the dirty water problem is to use some rocks around the dishes -- big enough that the torts won't be tempted to eat them of course. I have both my feeding stones and my water dishes surrounded by stones. It doesn't stay perfectly clean but helps a lot.


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## New Desert Tortoise Mommy (Sep 21, 2013)

Okay thank u a lot to the last 3 post. 
Everyone remember people have their own way. I want my babies to live. And just because I ask for an opinion doesnt mean I have to always take it. I just need ideas. Thats the point of this forum. Thank u  

please and thank you


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## wellington (Sep 21, 2013)

Exactly, you want them to live and thrive I hope. That is what every one of us are trying to help you accomplish.


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## ShellyTurtlesCats (Sep 21, 2013)

...I'm finding it a little hard to understand why you would ask for advice/give details and then ignore everyone when they're giving out amazing & life saving advice? Confusing.

__________
~ Shelly ~


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## Tom (Sep 21, 2013)

ShellyTurtleTort said:


> ...I'm finding it a little hard to understand why you would ask for advice/give details and then ignore everyone when they're giving out amazing & life saving advice? Confusing.
> 
> __________
> ~ Shelly ~



I think Bee Bee spelled it out. She is getting conflicting info from multiple sources. Who is she supposed to believe and listen to? She wants to do it "right", and by asking she is trying to learn what is "right", but multiple people are telling her what is "right", and its all different.

In time with enough successes and failures of her own, she will have a better feel for what works and what doesn't. She will eventually learn all the reasons why different people are telling her different things.

The problem is that some of us have already been down the road that she is on and we know where it leads. Some people have to go see it for themselves, and with tortoises this can take a long time.


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## reatrocity (Sep 21, 2013)

Whatever you decide I hope your torts are happy. I think maybe though you should try and listen to multiple people, and try different things. No one is perfect and what intrigued me about getting a tortoise is that it is constantly a growing process. I don't think staying stagnant is ever good. Most of these substrates are not expensive, and they wouldn't hurt to try, at least.  Maybe make a smaller separate tort table (nothing expensive, a large plastic container for example) for them to try it out in temporarily, and see how you like it? Instead of covering your entire tort table with something you may be unfamiliar and/or uncomfortable with is my suggestion.

Whitney I definitely love that idea and will use it when my new substrate comes in for my new baby tort.


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## ShellyTurtlesCats (Sep 21, 2013)

*Re: RE: My babies!! Lol*



Tom said:


> ShellyTurtleTort said:
> 
> 
> > ...I'm finding it a little hard to understand why you would ask for advice/give details and then ignore everyone when they're giving out amazing & life saving advice? Confusing.
> ...



So hard to sit idling by. Must be how grandparents feel when their first grandchild is born; to have to watch their own children and hold their tongue/actions because they already had their chance.

_________
~ Shelly ~


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## New Desert Tortoise Mommy (Sep 21, 2013)

Ok now if you work and do school and you put soil in and you come back to a dirt water bowl and little baby torts dirty and crap in there eye and all there eyes closed. Yes this was a horri ble idea from you people help us not send us messages 
treating us like we are bad people cause we dont have no money to drive far and buy a 14 dollar bag and waste 20 on gas we will figure out a different substrate when we get a chance and get a lot of things for them and if you want to get mad and mock us for not having our parents buy our wants for them. now when I get rich like you people think I am ill make them a mansion to satisfy your needs and wants for them but as of now we will do little work here and there so next time you want to go off on people make sure you put into mind they dont have a silver spoon in there mouth lile you do and this is her boyfriend writing this who tales care of them night and day after or before work and school and giving the little guys a bath in carrot food so learn your facts before writing hate msgs to people who are doing everything in there power to care for them
please and thank you


We will get the uvb long bulb but guess what we need... money for it its not free we took how much it cost and our person we talk to recommend it from the start but we were on a budget so we got what they needed the most 

please and thank you


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## BeeBee*BeeLeaves (Sep 21, 2013)

Sunshine is free. A bulb can be from the 99 cents only store. It's Halloween time and they have black lights right now. You just need warmth when inside, babies in desert burrows, in nature are warm and humid under the desert floor. If they are supervised for 20-30 minutes outside, even in the shade, and not even every day but every few days, they do get the UVB rays they need, so why go to the expense of the UVB long bulb when sunlight and sunshine is free.

Everyone who responded was trying to help and suggesting less expensive ways of doing things. Like above. So you do not need to feel like everyone wanted you to get expensive stuff for them to thrive. They do not need silver spoon caretaking. Expensive are the things that hurt them, especially if it causes them stress because stress messes up their immune system.


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## wellington (Sep 21, 2013)

New Desert Tortoise Mommy said:


> Ok now if you work and do school and you put soil in and you come back to a dirt water bowl and little baby torts dirty and crap in there eye and all there eyes closed. Yes this was a horri ble idea from you people help us not send us messages
> treating us like we are bad people cause we dont have no money to drive far and buy a 14 dollar bag and waste 20 on gas we will figure out a different substrate when we get a chance and get a lot of things for them and if you want to get mad and mock us for not having our parents buy our wants for them. now when I get rich like you people think I am ill make them a mansion to satisfy your needs and wants for them but as of now we will do little work here and there so next time you want to go off on people make sure you put into mind they dont have a silver spoon in there mouth lile you do and this is her boyfriend writing this who tales care of them night and day after or before work and school and giving the little guys a bath in carrot food so learn your facts before writing hate msgs to people who are doing everything in there power to care for them
> please and thank you
> 
> ...






Not a single person hear has treated you bad. They have been very kind and considerate and trying to think of all kinds of things to use that were cheap or even free. Not one has mocked you, nor given bad advice. The eyes are not closed because of dirty water. All the advice if taken will help you raise healthy torts. What will you do if or when your way makes them sick? Can you afford a vet bill? Maybe you took on too much at this time. Tortoises are not cheap to take care of. 
Everyone here is here for the love of tortoises and to help others learn the right way to raise healthy tortoises. Vet bills for a tortoise is not cheap. 
Respect have been given here in trying to help your torts. I expect it to be given back. They are giving up their time to try and help you.
Good luck. Hope all goes well for your torts.


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## reatrocity (Sep 21, 2013)

Yeah I don't really see why they see people's responses as hostile. We're all learning here. Frankly, I'm sure most of us have our financial problems in our own way. But tortoises aren't cheap, and it's a big factor in making a decision in whether or not a tortoise is right for anyone who wants one. The responsibility of a pet owner is to make life as wonderful as possible for their pets, if not, then the benefits are completely one sided on behalf of the owner, and that's unfair. The tortoises didn't force their way into our homes. Thankfully, you could probably buy something online without needing to travel a long distance. I use Amazon Prime and it really has done wonders in terms of shipping costs for me-- and not just when it comes to slowly building my tortoise habitat. Anyone with an .edu e-mail can still get it for free. Or you can use the free trial instead.


If what you wanted was sympathy... unfortunately you're not getting any from me. Just be a good pet owner, look at all your options, and do what's best for your pets. No need to be hostile.


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## New Desert Tortoise Mommy (Sep 21, 2013)

Trust me my family has had tortoises for years and they live healthy without it being expensive the way u guys raise ur torts are expensive. Nd trust me we just havnt got paid. Nd my boyfriend is the one who wrote u guys that he feels we r doing the best we can. So relax everyone. Again like we said we take care of them and we take do take some of everyones advice and some we dont. Its just ideas. And honestly every time I see or hear about people taking torts to the vet they die. They are wild animals !! They have been living for yyeeaarrsss without medicine and they grow stronger. Trust me mine will be fine. Its only been 3 days and I have been over stressing. Thank nd bye everyone 

please and thank you


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## sibi (Sep 21, 2013)

You don't have to leave the forum. If you just want to read what others are doing for certain problems, the answers will always be here. Many people just read the threads but never post anything. You can do the same if you want. I'm sad to see you go though. :-(


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## Grandpa Turtle 144 (Sep 21, 2013)

Don't worry I didn't see anything hostile
I see some one that didn't research before they got the torts and I'm old enough to see a child's thinking 
Because the most her friends could have had torts for 10 yrs but with all of 
Us together have a lot more exsperince
Let her macher to see we only want to 
Help


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## wellington (Sep 21, 2013)

Not really sure she's leaving the forum. I think she's just saying good bye. I hope.
Btw though, all animals taken into our care should be able to see a vet if they get sick. There are some good old timer home remedies that can be tried in some cases first. However, if they don't work, a vet should be called upon. Not all tortoises die at the vets. If you can't take proper care of an animal, which does include vet care if or when needed, then a person should not take in a pet.
We have all said everything that needs to be said. Best we can do now is hope they will do what is right by the tortoises and realize there is a difference between just surviving and happily thriving. Beating a dead horse, still gets you a dead horse.


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## ShellyTurtlesCats (Sep 21, 2013)

Stick around and get in touch with those that have been there/done that to give your babies the best of the best.

_________
~ Shelly ~


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## WamBamCam (Sep 21, 2013)

It's true I could have worded it more politely but how he's responded to everyone here trying to give him advice on raising a healthy tortoise. I felt he didn't deserve any sympathy. This person obviously is not financially sound to take on the responsibility of a tortoise and should not be allowed to care for one. I've monitored this thread since it was posted to see if he would listen to reason and looks like reason was not working. So I went with a different approach. I apologize if I offended anyone other than the original poster of this thread.


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## sibi (Sep 21, 2013)

Becauzr a person isn't"financially sound" doesn't mean he/she isn't entitled to own a pet. Please be objective here and not condemnatory.


WamBamCam said:


> It's true I could have worded it more politely but how he's responded to everyone here trying to give him advice on raising a healthy tortoise. I felt he didn't deserve any sympathy. This person obviously is not financially sound to take on the responsibility of a tortoise and should not be allowed to care for one. I've monitored this thread since it was posted to see if he would listen to reason and looks like reason was not working. So I went with a different approach. I apologize if I offended anyone other than the original poster of this thread.


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## WamBamCam (Sep 21, 2013)

It does if it hinders the ability for that person to properly care for that pet.


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## Saleama (Sep 21, 2013)

New Desert Tortoise Mommy said:


> Well I used top soil nd that was a horrible idea nd I dont have coco coir in my area so idk what to use im just gona use pellets
> 
> please and thank you



There is no Petsmart where you live? No Petco? Or internet? Not a single store near you sells mulch? Just curious, why was the top soil a horrible idea? Many people use it successfully all day every day.




New Desert Tortoise Mommy said:


> Ok now if you work and do school and you put soil in and you come back to a dirt water bowl and little baby torts dirty and crap in there eye and all there eyes closed. Yes this was a horri ble idea from you people help us not send us messages
> treating us like we are bad people cause we dont have no money to drive far and buy a 14 dollar bag and waste 20 on gas we will figure out a different substrate when we get a chance and get a lot of things for them and if you want to get mad and mock us for not having our parents buy our wants for them. now when I get rich like you people think I am ill make them a mansion to satisfy your needs and wants for them but as of now we will do little work here and there so next time you want to go off on people make sure you put into mind they dont have a silver spoon in there mouth lile you do and this is her boyfriend writing this who tales care of them night and day after or before work and school and giving the little guys a bath in carrot food so learn your facts before writing hate msgs to people who are doing everything in there power to care for them
> please and thank you
> 
> ...





I pointed out to you in another thread how you could spend less than $20 and get everything everyone suggested. And here you are getting upset because what YOU are doing is going to kill or severely mess up three beautiful babies. If you do not have $20 to set them up right I suggest you get them to someone who does. Insulting people who are trying to help you is not going to keep your babies alive. So sad...


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## sibi (Sep 21, 2013)

If we are to help the op and hopefully help change her mind about care, then it would be best not to irritate her more than she's already. She's free to take care of her animals in the way she sees fit, even if we don't agree with her. That's her right and prerogative period! The expression, "you get more bees with honey than vinegar" holds true.



Saleama said:


> New Desert Tortoise Mommy said:
> 
> 
> > Well I used top soil nd that was a horrible idea nd I dont have coco coir in my area so idk what to use im just gona use pellets
> ...


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## wellington (Sep 21, 2013)

Keep things on track and helpful to the OP. Give them time to save up more money. They are not the first ones on this forum that has had to wait for their next pay check to get more stuff. Keep it friendly and no mud slinging. That never helps.
She has gotten all the proper info from this forum. It's now up to her to use it or not. We can only hope they do the right thing for the torts.


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## Saleama (Sep 21, 2013)

sibi said:


> If we are to help the op and hopefully help change her mind about care, then it would be best not to irritate her more than she's already. She's free to take care of her animals in the way she sees fit, even if we don't agree with her. That's her right and prerogative period! The expression, "you get more bees with honey than vinegar" holds true.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Simply asking questions in order to try and inform her of her choices. This person has already made up their mind to be irritated with anything that is said. I am poor as well but I have the money to take care of my animals. If I did not, I would not have my animals. I spent less than $20 and got new bulbs, new substrate and new food and water dishes for 4 indoor pens. I spent another $55 and set up a 10 x 10 garden with dirt and plants for my 2 Russians.


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## sibi (Sep 21, 2013)

That may be true, but we are all powerless to do anything about it. These are her animals, and she may just have to learn the hard way, like many have in the last. If she didn't care about her animals, she wouldn't have joined this forum, shared what was going on, and wouldn't have shown such pride in her babies as the beginning of this thread shows. So, as Barb said, give the op some time to see things especially since she's had these babies for only three days. I know it could be frustrating, but remember folks, we don't own the animals, and we are limited to what we can say or do to change things. Just let it be.


Saleama said:


> sibi said:
> 
> 
> > If we are to help the op and hopefully help change her mind about care, then it would be best not to irritate her more than she's already. She's free to take care of her animals in the way she sees fit, even if we don't agree with her. That's her right and prerogative period! The expression, "you get more bees with honey than vinegar" holds true.
> ...


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## thatrebecca (Sep 21, 2013)

It can be very overwhelming to be a new tort keeper, what with all the conflicting info out there. When I brought home my two juvenile DTs this past spring, I changed their substrate three times in the first week based on different advice I got. I was ready to tear my hair out. (Now they're on plain old back yard dirt outside and orchid bark inside, both of which have worked out great).

Anyway, don't get discouraged. Your intentions are good or you wouldn't be here. There's lots of helpful info to be gleaned from experienced keepers here. Keep reading and learning.


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## Saleama (Sep 21, 2013)

thatrebecca said:


> It can be very overwhelming to be a new tort keeper, what with all the conflicting info out there. When I brought home my two juvenile DTs this past spring, I changed their substrate three times in the first week based on different advice I got. I was ready to tear my hair out. (Now they're on plain old back yard dirt outside and orchid bark inside, both of which have worked out great).
> 
> Anyway, don't get discouraged. Your intentions are good or you wouldn't be here. There's lots of helpful info to be gleaned from experienced keepers here. Keep reading and learning.



LOL...The first week? I was at work on line before finding this forum and I called my Niece 3 times the first day and had her change substrates before I even got home! We had them on Alfalfa, then Timothy and then wood chips and when I got home we changed it to coco coir. I know it can be frustrating. I got all my advice online at several different places. I can say though, that the way I do it now, based on what I got here, is the way my little guys seem to be more healthy and happy.


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## New Desert Tortoise Mommy (Sep 21, 2013)

Haha I dont have friends with tortoises. I have family and we have one thats 7 2 rhat are 40 and one that is 55 thank u very much. Nd no I did do a lot of research nd we git everything together before I got them. Nd then I found this out and I happened to get one with special needs turns out his eyes r fine all of there eyes are fine and the one with the eye problem is that the previous owner knew he was in bad health nd didnt tell anyone. Until after I called to find out what happened. Nd then when I found this out I saw how many different things people say. Nd u guys can say what u want but I did take advice from all of u. But then some advice didnt work for me thats just what happens with everyone and the very upset message was sent from the daddy of theses babies my boyfriend not me. So relax everyone. Honestly u guys cant get upset because im going to do some of ur advice and not all. I was just a over worried mom to them. Nd over reacted. Things r going fine. 

please and thank you


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## sibi (Sep 21, 2013)

Aww...they look sooo cute! Is that big momma? She's beautiful! I hope the one with the eye problem gets better soon. You've got a beautiful family there. Best to you


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## New Desert Tortoise Mommy (Sep 21, 2013)

Nd thank u Rebecca u seem to be the only one that understands haha 

please and thank you


Thats their cousin haha I wish it was the mommy but no and yah he is sooo cute nd big it was fun watching them together. 

please and thank you


Relax people just because I seem to be getting mad doesnt mean im not listening or taking in the advice u guys give me and taking the time to tell me everything u guys know. Nd I appreciate it but I have to wait for the check to come in. So dont start with me saying I should give them away because I cant take care of them. Im not a rich *** like u acting like u. Sorry for getting upset but that was harsh and rude ! So dont tell me I cant afford or I cant take care of them. All u can do is hope for the best because im doing everything I can. People take care of theses babies different ways and not always (word removed by moderator) money. And I see people have helped for cheap ways and I appreciate it. But when I get some things nd then I get something nd else nd then try all theses things I ran out of money toll my next check nothing to do now. But I have the stuff they need. So relax everyone and no more hate on my thread please

please and thank you


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## sibi (Sep 22, 2013)

I understand too. And I know you appreciate what we're trying to do for you. Remember, though, that cursing isn't allowed on posts. If anyone made you feel like most of us are rich a**, that's not true. We all do what we can and we want you to feel comfortable here, okay? We want to see more pics of your beautiful family and their cousin, haha. Do you know where the momma and pappa are? It would be real cool to see them too.

Also, no one has the right to tell you you shouldn't have your babies. No one should have said that you should give them away either. That wasn't right. So, don't think everyone feels like that because they don't, okay? Enjoy your babies, and I'll speak with you tomorrow.


New Desert Tortoise Mommy said:


> Nd thank u Rebecca u seem to be the only one that understands haha
> 
> please and thank you
> 
> ...


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## New Desert Tortoise Mommy (Sep 22, 2013)

this is her boyfriend right now the hatchlings are all asleep in a super warm room also where i sleep i just wanted to say thank you for your help and advice we will get what is recommend but not now cause we are broke and they do need some type of uvb light and we dont have money for a new one for two weeks so give us time and i do believe two weeks with no sun except the weekends will be fine they may be affected due to lack in vitamin so thank you everyone who has helped with info for scooby rango and sally...scooby is opening one of his eyes and it seems like the carrot baby food bath is working but im not sure about the repti turtle eye drops from zoo med if anything bad about this please tell us thank you


No unfortunately I dont think the club I got them from took care of them nd the mom nd dad I have not one clue  

please and thank you


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## sibi (Sep 22, 2013)

Thank you for your kind words. My babies are asleep too. I know you and your gf are taking the very best care of your babies. I also know how tough it can be for people now a days. You are right, two weeks isn't gonna hurt none especially since they go out on the weekends. Anything I can do to help, just send me a pm(personal message) okay? Nice speaking with you both.


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## mainey34 (Sep 22, 2013)

Lol...they are really cute. And mom, if that is mom. She looks pretty good. If i might ask. Where in the USA are you?


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## New Desert Tortoise Mommy (Sep 22, 2013)

No thats not mama haha but that is a desert tortoise we have but he is in the backyard and we have the babies at my boyfriends in the house. And im in California. 

please and thank you


And thank u sibi  uve been very nice for defending us. 

please and thank you


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## sibi (Sep 22, 2013)

Thank you.again. I live in Florida and it's real late here. So, I'll get to speak to you again tomorrow. You can tell me what the babies did tomorrow, okay. Good night


New Desert Tortoise Mommy said:


> No thats not mama haha but that is a desert tortoise we have but he is in the backyard and we have the babies at my boyfriends in the house. And im in California.
> 
> please and thank you
> 
> ...


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## New Desert Tortoise Mommy (Sep 22, 2013)

Haha I grew ip in florida I sure do miss it haha okay thank u everyone goodnight time to sleep 

please and thank you


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## mainey34 (Sep 22, 2013)

You live in California, it is still warm there, right? Ok so you have the natural sunshine, that is free. You really dont need a uvb light right away. As long as they get outdoors daily. So that problem is solved...lets see..what else? The substrate, what we call it or what is the bedding. Now they really should have some type of humidity. Have you done research on pyramiding? It is what happens when they have no humidity. Im not telling you to do this. Just if you would look it up and see what it looks like. Thats all.


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## New Desert Tortoise Mommy (Sep 22, 2013)

Well we r gona order online the coco coir because we cant find it anywhere every where we have looked. Also the sun shine well where my boyfriend lives doesnt get sun at allllll like none !! Nd it sucks nd its getting cold not warm really no more. But Saturdays nd sundays we r making them the days we take the babies outside at my house. But other then that they dont have sun nd when we get paid we will get the new light. 

please and thank you


Nd yes we know the pyramiding Is from calcium too we have it covered we soak them everyday

please and thank you


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## mainey34 (Sep 22, 2013)

Have you tried home depot? They have it and you get a lot of it. Not trying to knock it, but have you done research on it? I didnt care for it..you may like it though. Everyone is different. Also petsmart carries it. I think it is $7.00 may be more where you are..the key to using something like that and soil is to get some large flat rocks and line them along the water dish so that they cant drag that stuff into the water...


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## BeeBee*BeeLeaves (Sep 22, 2013)

Rich? Who is rich any more in America? anyone? anyone? Bueller? 
I just want to add, for future reference, that bricks of coco coir are available at Target, but in the spring time. It was only 2.47 a brick. Blows me away that it is sold now for so much more. So, everyone, spring time, stock up. It was in the garden dept. near the seeds.
Those pictures are cool. And lots of nice St Augustine grass. 
They look like the 3 babies that Yvonne found while she was mowing. Little triplets everywhere!
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/thread-79740.html


PS I went to look at the brick I bought at Target. Had an extra one. It is by Burpee. And for everyone, here is the link to their website and on there it is 5.95 for two bricks. They are also having a warehouse clearance sale, so if you also garden, maybe that would also help. There were kale and collard greens seeds and more ...
http://www.burpee.com/seed-starting/


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## New Desert Tortoise Mommy (Sep 22, 2013)

Trust me where I live no one has it but a marijuana growing store. And its $14 for one brick 

please and thank you


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## wellington (Sep 22, 2013)

Where are you located? There may be someone close to your area that has found it some place you haven't thought of. Like Target, I never would have thought to look there.


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## Sulcata_Sandy (Sep 22, 2013)

I also hate the dirt, soil, coco coir. Beyond messy and I don't like the smell.

So, I tried three different substrates. All three super cheap and found at local (I'm rural) garden stores.

Bark chips ($4.99 for crazy huge bag)...the come in small/medium/large. I bought large. My torts love climbing and burying in them. I moistened sphagnum moss ($2.99 for huge bag), and one loves it, the other hates it.
Placing peat moss underneath for waste (many these guys urinate alot!) then adding a mixture of sphagnum and large bark chips on top.
Both tortoises favor the mixture, and the sphagnum holds the moisture well. So they both have a choice of what surface they wish. And it's not messy, water dish is reasonably clean after my 12 hour work day, and its easy to spot clean.

Hope that helps. I understand your concerns.


Sandy
Oregon Tortoise Rescue


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## Team Gomberg (Sep 22, 2013)

Just some food for thought... 

You may not like the coco coir since you didn't like the top soil. The coir is much, much messier.
True you can pack it down with your hand to minimize the mess but you could have done that with the soil, too. 

Sent from my TFOapp


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## ShellyTurtlesCats (Sep 22, 2013)

I go for what my torts like, what I like means nothing in comparison.

_________
~ Shelly ~


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## New Desert Tortoise Mommy (Sep 22, 2013)

I went to target kmart home depot lowes and all nurseries nd farden stores. Here in California where I live coco coir is for marijuana so thats where ima found it haha I already called. But I still cant get it for 2 weeks.

please and thank you


Nd okay that sounds good I will check it out. Thank u everyone. 

please and thank you


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## Sulcata_Sandy (Sep 22, 2013)

ShellyTurtleTort said:


> I go for what my torts like, what I like means nothing in comparison.
> 
> _________
> ~ Shelly ~



I agree, but then we all gotta live in harmony. [GRINNING FACE WITH SMILING EYES]
Mine spend alt of time exploring the house. I don't mind cleaning up after my critters, but I just can't handle vacuuming several times a day. And I did have the problem of cc dirt in their eyes.
I feel mine love the bark/sphagnum mixture alot better...they are certainly more eager to walk around AND both are burrowing in it, which they didn't try on cc. YAY!



Sandy
Oregon Tortoise Rescue


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## ShellyTurtlesCats (Sep 22, 2013)

I soak mine before they walk around my house. This cleans them off entirely. Only thing left behind is the stained head of my light Leo, Haha.

_________
~ Shelly ~


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## Sulcata_Sandy (Sep 22, 2013)

I like it!!


Sandy
Oregon Tortoise Rescue


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## New Desert Tortoise Mommy (Sep 22, 2013)

Thank u everyone u made great suggestion I will see what I can find here nd see what works best for the babies lol

please and thank you


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## rayneygirl (Sep 22, 2013)

New Desert Tortoise Mommy said:


> Ok now if you work and do school and you put soil in and you come back to a dirt water bowl and little baby torts dirty and crap in there eye and all there eyes closed. Yes this was a horri ble idea from you people help us not send us messages
> treating us like we are bad people cause we dont have no money to drive far and buy a 14 dollar bag and waste 20 on gas we will figure out a different substrate when we get a chance and get a lot of things for them and if you want to get mad and mock us for not having our parents buy our wants for them. now when I get rich like you people think I am ill make them a mansion to satisfy your needs and wants for them but as of now we will do little work here and there so next time you want to go off on people make sure you put into mind they dont have a silver spoon in there mouth lile you do and this is her boyfriend writing this who tales care of them night and day after or before work and school and giving the little guys a bath in carrot food so learn your facts before writing hate msgs to people who are doing everything in there power to care for them
> please and thank you
> 
> ...





you're not bad people, but why would you get 3 dt hatchlings when you might not have the finances to give them the best chance at survival? also, i live in CA as well, coco coir can be found at petsmart or petco in the reptile section but i'd take a look online, you might be able to find better prices and save a few $. good luck with your babies. i had a baby that recently passed, i did everything i was told to do, i asked a lot of questions on here, had her enclosure hot and humid, she ate enthusiastically, warm soaks everyday, and still my little one slipped away after having her for 13 days. and it really sucks, i hope this does not happen to you, i truly hope your babies make it.


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## New Desert Tortoise Mommy (Sep 22, 2013)

Well I do have the finances for them. Just like everyone tho u get ur pay check u spend it all of them nd then u have to wait till u get ur next check. Trust me I have money so please stop saying that everyone. Im really truly sorry about ur baby  I pray mine grow big and strong. What was the cause of ur babies passing ? Did u find out ? 

please and thank you


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## Yvonne G (Sep 22, 2013)

I just now read this thread all the way through, and I must say, I just don't understand...

All of the posts, well, MOST of the posts were helpful and informative. I'm sorry that you felt you were being picked on. That surely wasn't anyone's intent.

Now, to the coco coir.

If you go to Petsmart or any large pet store, you will find coco coir in the substrate department. It looks like a cellophane-wrapped square package, about 8" square. It is called Bed-A-Beast. It's a hard, square package.

I also have three baby desert tortoises, and right now I have them in a plastic bin with garden soil as the substrate. I have the feeding tile placed inside a circle of stones that are too big to fit in a tiny mouth. This helps to keep the dirt from being tracked into the food.

Just remember...there is no one way to take good care of your babies. You must learn what they need to grow and thrive: UVB either from the sun or from an expensive light, calcium, good food, water, a moist substrate, a couple of hiding places and exercise.

How you provide these things is up to you.


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## ascott (Sep 22, 2013)

You must either live in northern california or really southern...lol......



> Here in California where I live coco coir is for marijuana



You can also use good ole fashion dirt from outside....just free from chemical spays....and it is what they would live in naturally


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## sibi (Sep 22, 2013)

Hi Desert Tortoise Mom, how were the babies today? Did they have fun outside today? Where are the temps in California now?


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## New Desert Tortoise Mommy (Sep 22, 2013)

sibi said:


> Hi Desert Tortoise Mom, how were the babies today? Did they have fun outside today? Where are the temps in California now?



well scooby eyes opened the whole time he was outside. but they have been opening and closing the rest of the day. He ate soooo much today afterwards he must of got a good appatite. he loved his soaking tonight they all did . and the temps were in the 82 and then dropped to the 70s around the evening. the temps are getting really cold at night. but during the mid day is good. thank you for asking.


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## sibi (Sep 22, 2013)

Do the babies stay outside in the cooler temps or do you bring them in for the night? I enjoyed the other thread where you posted pics of them outside and with Scooby Doo's eyes opened. If you keep him warm at night, I think his eyes will get better. Just keep doing what you're doing. I'm so happy for you both


New Desert Tortoise Mommy said:


> sibi said:
> 
> 
> > Hi Desert Tortoise Mom, how were the babies today? Did they have fun outside today? Where are the temps in California now?
> ...


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## New Desert Tortoise Mommy (Sep 22, 2013)

Thank u  I hope so lol well he stays inside they all do all day nd night nd we keep it 85 at night. Nd only the weeknds we r gona be able to get them outside unfortunately but we still give him his carrot baths lol 

please and thank you


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## sibi (Sep 22, 2013)

I'll check with you everyday, okay? Goodnight


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