# Question from new member



## mochosla (Dec 5, 2008)

Hi everybody! I just found this website and I have a question for Southern California DT owners. I have two female DTs I adopted from the palm desert chapter a few months ago. They are doing great and were spending more and more time in their borrows until it started to rain and I had to pull them out because the burrows were getting too humid and I did not want the the torts to get sick. I did some reading and found that some people build hibernation houses for their torts so that is what I did. Unfortunately, the temperature just does NOT seem to get cold enough for them to go in full hibernation and they are getting out of the house I built and they roam the backyard. My question is, if the temps do not get cold enough for them to hibernate, what do I do? Is it okay? Am I risking them getting sick?

Here are a couple of pics of the torts and the house (which I moved to a shaded area of the house now where no sunlight hits it directly all day).

Thanks.


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## Maggie Cummings (Dec 6, 2008)

I didn't hibernate any of my desert tortoises. I don't think your 'hibernation house' is good enough. Most hibernate their animals by putting them in a dark box that's placed in a dark cool spot. I wouldn't try to hibernate your guys until next year. For them to hibernate safely they would have stopped eating over a month before hibernation to clear their gut of any remaining food. If they hibernate with food in the gut it *could* rot causing death. You have only had your guys for a few months so most would advise to not hibernate. But next winter you will know more about them and have a better place for them to sleep. Nothing will happen if you don't hibernate them...In your case it would be safer not to. IMHO
You probably need to make a burrow some place where rain doesn't get in. Some make a hibernation house and place the house over the burrow so the animal is still in the burrow and it is protected from the rain. Can't you contact the chapter that adopted them to you for advice???
I know I'm not much help, but noone had answered you so I thought I should say something...I'll shake up a moderator for you...


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## Laura (Dec 6, 2008)

your house is a great summertime house.. but a box in the garage works great to. dry is the most important and you cant do that if left outside. 
if they are still eating, dont let them sleep yet, or like maggie says.. not this year.. but if that is the case you will need to set up a warm area for them. I DOES get cold in southern calif.. really it does! I know some people dont believe that.. ;-)


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## mochosla (Dec 6, 2008)

Okay, so a couple of weeks ago I put them in my tool shed in cardboard boxes but the temps were getting in the 65 degree neighborhood inside the shed and I did not think it safe to leave them there. After talking to a couple of people a hibernation house seemed to be the best/only option. Don't know where you guys are located but today the temperature in my neighborhood reached 82 degrees so it is not exactly cool enough for the torts to hibernate. 

Today one of the torts was sniffing around where its burrow used to be (I covered it with dirt) and I feel so bad that I decided to re-dig it. She was so happy when she saw it that she went right in and kept on coming out and back inside. They both seem very comfortable in the burrow but I'm concerned with it getting too humid when it starts to rain again.

Anyway, I will monitor the burrow and will also move the hibernation house right on top of it and plant a bunch of shade plants around it to keep it cool and "attractive".

Thanks.


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## Maggie Cummings (Dec 6, 2008)

I don't think you are understanding the concept of a hibernation house. Plus it's too warm in SoCal to hibernate your tortoises right now. IF you could hibernate them what you would do is cut out the bottom of that hibernation house and place the whole house over the entrance to the burrow. So your tortoises would hibernate in their burrow with the house covering the entrance. You seem to be overly conscious of them in a humid atmosphere. It's not harmful to them for it to be humid. Being out in a cold rain would not be good, but being down in a warm burrow is alright. They dig long burrows then poop and pee in them creating their own humid atmosphere. Do you have a place for them now where they can go inside and bask under a hot light? Where do they sleep at night? It is not necessary to hibernate them. I have raised numerous desert tortoises and I never hibernated a one. So as long as they can get in out of the rain and under a hot basking light, with a warm place to sleep at night, I'd stop fretting about hibernation. You are worrying unnecessarily...


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## mochosla (Dec 6, 2008)

Hm...you are probably correct about everything. There is a lot of information and it can be confusing at times. I just want to do the best possible for my torts and one of the things I have read a few times is that the humidity in the desert is MUCH lower than in LA as they only get a few inches of rain a year and therefore no humidity sips down to their burrows. In any case, what you recommend makes a lot of sense and I can definitely make a hole on the hibernation house and place it on top of their burrow. 

To answer your question, no I do not have a warming light as I have not read anywhere that a light is necessary for this specie. 

Thank you for your help!!


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## Yvonne G (Dec 7, 2008)

If you live anyplace in California that is NOT the Mojave or Sonoran desert, its just not a good idea to allow your Gopherus agazzisii to hibernate outside. We get too much rain. Its bad for a desert tortoise to be in a burrow while hibernating and have the ground all around him be wet. Even if you place the house over the mouth of the burrow, the cappilary action of the dirt will pull the rain water and eventually all the dirt around the tortoise will be wet. Most of us who keep desert tortoises outside the desert put them in boxes of shredded newspaper then place the box in a cool (between 40 & 50), quiet place. Something like on a shelf in the garage or in the closet of a back bedroom. Its not good in a garden shed because they are not insulated well enough for it to be cool all the time. Also, if you have freezing temps, its likely that inside the garden shed would get too cold. So, bottom line: if your tortoises are still eating they are not ready to hibernate. When they stop eating for at least 2 weeks you can box them up and put them into a cool, quiet place.

Yvonne


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## Maggie Cummings (Dec 7, 2008)

So my advice about hibernating them in their burrow is wrong. Yvonne is the ultimate expert when it comes to Gopherus agassizii (desert torts) so that's why I emailed her last night and asked her to give you the advice you need to hibernate your tortoises. You can take her advice without worrying about it...I apologize for telling you to hibernate your tortoises in the burrow. But the rest of my advice is good, and what I said about them pooping and peeing in the burrows to create humidity is correct...


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## mochosla (Dec 7, 2008)

Thank you very much. I will have to wait until temperatures drop in the valley. Right now they do go down to 50ish at night but bounce right back to the 70s during the day. Now, the toolshed I have is not one of those metal ones. Mine is an extension of the garage so it is very well insulted and the temps tend to not fluctuated a lot. I will probably box them up again when it gets cold enough and put them there then.

Thank you.


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## Maggie Cummings (Dec 7, 2008)

mochosla said:


> Hm...you are probably correct about everything. There is a lot of information and it can be confusing at times. I just want to do the best possible for my torts and one of the things I have read a few times is that the humidity in the desert is MUCH lower than in LA as they only get a few inches of rain a year and therefore no humidity sips down to their burrows. In any case, what you recommend makes a lot of sense and I can definitely make a hole on the hibernation house and place it on top of their burrow.
> 
> To answer your question, no I do not have a warming light as I have not read anywhere that a light is necessary for this specie.
> 
> Thank you for your help!!



You would need a warming light outside at night in their sleeping house. Don't you have some sort of a safe secure house they sleep in at night?. I don't hibernate mine (9 of them) so they are in a situation that requires a warming light at night. You don't have a light to keep them warm at night? In the wild they dig long burrows and they poop and pee in them creating humidity. So while the ambient air may be dry, it IS humid inside the burrows. I have kept Gopherus agassizii for a number of years now, they are my favorite species and I create humidity for mine. If they are kept in a dry situation they get bubbly noses and evidence of URTI...Yvonne gives the best advice...welcome to the group you will get great advice here...


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## Yvonne G (Dec 7, 2008)

mochosla said:


> Thank you very much. I will have to wait until temperatures drop in the valley. Right now they do go down to 50ish at night but bounce right back to the 70s during the day. Now, the toolshed I have is not one of those metal ones. Mine is an extension of the garage so it is very well insulted and the temps tend to not fluctuated a lot. I will probably box them up again when it gets cold enough and put them there then.
> 
> Thank you.



We, here in the Central Calif. Valley, are also experiencing a warmish Autumn. It usually freezes by Halloween, but so far the night time temps haven't gotten below 45 degrees. However, my desert tortoises and Russian tortoises all went into their houses and stayed there. So I boxed them all up and put them away. That's the key I look for. If they come out every morning and sun themselves then go back into the house, they are not ready. If they stay in the house for a few days without coming out to sun, they are ready to box up.


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## Crazy1 (Dec 8, 2008)

I live in the Inland Empire (San Bernardino) area. Its the night time temps that you watch for. My two adult males are in hibernation in boxes in the shed. They stopped eating about a month ago dug a burrow and I had to dig them out just before the last (and only) bad rain we got. I watch for them to stop eating the supplemental food I give them. If you have just gotten yours I would set up a place that is warm and not hibernate them until next year. You will know more about them then, and have less of a chance of losing them during hibernation. If this is not possible then make sure they are not eating. It is not unusuall for DT to not hibernate until after Christmas. But they MUST NOT have anything in there stomachs. Offer lots of water though.


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## Shelly (Dec 9, 2008)

I live in North Hollywood, and my torts have been hibernating for over a month.


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