# Egg rotation question



## ZEROPILOT (Sep 15, 2020)

I know that at some point, it is very important to not rotate or tip over tortoise eggs.
What point is that? 
Right after they are laid?
Right before hatching?
The whole time?
I'll be getting some eggs soon from Bolivian parents. (Very large Redfoot)
I have some concern as to how and when they'll be collected.


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## Zoeclare (Sep 15, 2020)

How exciting!!!


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## Toddrickfl1 (Sep 15, 2020)

ZEROPILOT said:


> I know that at some point, it is very important to not rotate or tip over tortoise eggs.
> What point is that?
> Right after they are laid?
> Right before hatching?
> ...


You can only rotate them for a couple hours after they're laid as far as I know.


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## newCH (Sep 15, 2020)

Wow, very cool ! ?


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## G-stars (Sep 15, 2020)

You can rotate them as long as the fetus hasn’t formed. So if the eggs haven’t been incubated yet then it’s okay to rotate them. I’d still limit it as much as possible though, I’d also put them in a container with the incubating substrate you plan on using during transportation.


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## Blackdog1714 (Sep 15, 2020)

Zoeclare said:


> How exciting!!!


Ahem- Eggsciting! We must not waste oppurtunities ?


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## Zoeclare (Sep 15, 2020)

Blackdog1714 said:


> Ahem- Eggsciting! We must not waste oppurtunities ?


I missed a trick there!


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## saleena.lewis (Sep 15, 2020)

Very cool!


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## zovick (Sep 16, 2020)

ZEROPILOT said:


> I know that at some point, it is very important to not rotate or tip over tortoise eggs.
> What point is that?
> Right after they are laid?
> Right before hatching?
> ...


To clarify a point, are these Bolivian Redfoot eggs you will be getting being shipped to you or will they be laid at your home from your own tortoises? I am not certain from the wording of the last two lines of your post.

The eggs should not be tilted/rotated from the time blood vessels can first be seen when they are candled. In most instances this occurs at three weeks or so after incubation is started. If the eggs are found in the ground after being laid and you are unsure when the nest was actually laid, I would not rotate them at all from the time they were found.


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## Calaveras (Sep 16, 2020)

ZEROPILOT said:


> I know that at some point, it is very important to not rotate or tip over tortoise eggs.
> What point is that?
> Right after they are laid?
> Right before hatching?
> ...


You usually have a day Or two after they are laid where they are OK.
Once the blood vessels are attached at the end do not roll them until they are hatched


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## ZEROPILOT (Sep 16, 2020)

zovick said:


> To clarify a point, are these Bolivian Redfoot eggs you will be getting being shipped to you or will they be laid at your home from your own tortoises? I am not certain from the wording of the last two lines of your post.
> 
> The eggs should not be tilted/rotated from the time blood vessels can first be seen when they are candled. In most instances this occurs at three weeks or so after incubation is started. If the eggs are found in the ground after being laid and you are unsure when the nest was actually laid, I would not rotate them at all from the time they were found.


It's more or less a zoo situation.
Two pair of Bolivians. Living as pairs.
Pretty horrible. The eggs are usually scattered on the ground or just partially covered. Mostly due to the limited space and hard packed, well trampled dirt.
It may not matter now because I seem to have ticked off the person by suggesting that they needed much more space and pointed out the clear (to me) agression of both males.
It's one of those "BEEN DOING IT FOR YEARS" stories.
Been doing it wrong for years I say.
The tortoises are honestly gigantic.
I'll keep the post updated.


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## zovick (Sep 17, 2020)

ZEROPILOT said:


> It's more or less a zoo situation.
> Two pair of Bolivians. Living as pairs.
> Pretty horrible. The eggs are usually scattered on the ground or just partially covered. Mostly due to the limited space and hard packed, well trampled dirt.
> It may not matter now because I seem to have ticked off the person by suggesting that they needed much more space and pointed out the clear (to me) agression of both males.
> ...


It doesn't sound as though you would get viable eggs from this situation even if they do decide to give them to you.. If it makes you feel any better, I have been working with tortoises since 1958 and have never had an egg which was deposited on top of the ground hatch.


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## ZEROPILOT (Sep 17, 2020)

zovick said:


> It doesn't sound as though you would get viable eggs from this situation even if they do decide to give them to you.. If it makes you feel any better, I have been working with tortoises since 1958 and have never had an egg which was deposited on top of the ground hatch.


Thank you


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## zovick (Sep 17, 2020)

ZEROPILOT said:


> Thank you


Have you been close enough to those tortoises to tell about how big they are in SCL? Just curious.


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## ZEROPILOT (Sep 17, 2020)

I'll get some photos tomorrow
(I'll try)
They are seriously large. Like close to 40- 50% larger than the largest adult Northern I've ever had.
Maybe 18-20"?


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## ZEROPILOT (Sep 18, 2020)

ZEROPILOT said:


> I'll get some photos tomorrow
> (I'll try)
> They are seriously large. Like close to 40- 50% larger than the largest adult Northern I've ever had.
> Maybe 18-20"?


It wont be today.
My back is out again


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## Relic (Sep 18, 2020)

zovick said:


> It doesn't sound as though you would get viable eggs from this situation even if they do decide to give them to you.. If it makes you feel any better, I have been working with tortoises since 1958 and have never had an egg which was deposited on top of the ground hatch.


Not a tortoise, but many years ago I found 4 three-toed box turtle eggs at the bottom of the concrete pool inside their pen - about 12 inches underwater. There were three box turtles swimming around in the water at the time and those eggs were sloshing around like a group of sailors on shore leave. I had no idea how long the eggs had been there - possibly since the day before - but I fished them out, put them in my syrofoam ice chest with vermiculite inside, and darned if all 4 of those eggs didn't eventually hatch and turn-out normal.


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## zovick (Sep 18, 2020)

Relic said:


> Not a tortoise, but many years ago I found 4 three-toed box turtle eggs at the bottom of the concrete pool inside their pen - about 12 inches underwater. There were three box turtles swimming around in the water at the time and those eggs were sloshing around like a group of sailors on shore leave. I had no idea how long the eggs had been there - possibly since the day before - but I fished them out, put them in my syrofoam ice chest with vermiculite inside, and darned if all 4 of those eggs didn't eventually hatch and turn-out normal.


Very fortuitous!


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## ZEROPILOT (Sep 18, 2020)

My lifetime hatch rate is only about 30%.
I've done many things wrong.
In the future, any eggs layed in my enclosure will remain there.
Two babies have popped up without me even knowing they were there.


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## zovick (Sep 18, 2020)

Relic said:


> Not a tortoise, but many years ago I found 4 three-toed box turtle eggs at the bottom of the concrete pool inside their pen - about 12 inches underwater. There were three box turtles swimming around in the water at the time and those eggs were sloshing around like a group of sailors on shore leave. I had no idea how long the eggs had been there - possibly since the day before - but I fished them out, put them in my syrofoam ice chest with vermiculite inside, and darned if all 4 of those eggs didn't eventually hatch and turn-out normal.


Forgot to say that I really doubt those eggs could have been in the water more than a few minutes before you found them or they would have split open from imbibing excess water.


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## zovick (Sep 18, 2020)

ZEROPILOT said:


> My lifetime hatch rate is only about 30%.
> I've done many things wrong.
> In the future, any eggs layed in my enclosure will remain there.
> Two babies have popped up without me even knowing they were there.


Another fortuitous happening!


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## Tom (Sep 18, 2020)

Relic said:


> Not a tortoise, but many years ago I found 4 three-toed box turtle eggs at the bottom of the concrete pool inside their pen - about 12 inches underwater. There were three box turtles swimming around in the water at the time and those eggs were sloshing around like a group of sailors on shore leave. I had no idea how long the eggs had been there - possibly since the day before - but I fished them out, put them in my syrofoam ice chest with vermiculite inside, and darned if all 4 of those eggs didn't eventually hatch and turn-out normal.


There was a presentation with info on this at TTPG. I can't remember the details, but something about "the clock' doesn't start ticking until the eggs are exposed to air. This is why they don't start developing inside the mom. If the turtle laid the eggs directly into the water, and they weren't exposed to air yet, then you had some time to sort out the problem. Not sure exactly how much time, but time.

I wish I could remember more details about that presentation...


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## Tom (Sep 18, 2020)

ZEROPILOT said:


> I know that at some point, it is very important to not rotate or tip over tortoise eggs.
> What point is that?
> Right after they are laid?
> Right before hatching?
> ...


I've always heard 24-48 hours after laying, but I have never experimented to test this theory. I defer to @zovick and his vast experience on this one.

My SA leopards are 18-20 inches. That is a big tortoise! I have to carry them around sometimes. Females back to the night box, and males into and out of the female pen weekly. They weigh about 35-40 pounds.

I sure hope you get some viable eggs and hatch them out.


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## ZEROPILOT (Sep 18, 2020)

Tom said:


> I've always heard 24-48 hours after laying, but I have never experimented to test this theory. I defer to @zovick and his vast experience on this one.
> 
> My SA leopards are 18-20 inches. That is a big tortoise! I have to carry them around sometimes. Females back to the night box, and males into and out of the female pen weekly. They weigh about 35-40 pounds.
> 
> I sure hope you get some viable eggs and hatch them out.


Me too
There always seem to be some paying around.


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## zovick (Sep 19, 2020)

ZEROPILOT said:


> Me too
> There always seem to be some paying around.


Do you know if the zoo which has the tortoises has tried incubating any of those eggs? If not, what do they do with them?


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## ZEROPILOT (Sep 19, 2020)

zovick said:


> Do you know if the zoo which has the tortoises has tried incubating any of those eggs? If not, what do they do with them?


It's not an actual zoo.
It's a garden supply place that also has a walk through garden.
They do nothing with the eggs.
My neighbor knows someone who was allowed to take a few.
They didn't hatch


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## zovick (Sep 20, 2020)

ZEROPILOT said:


> It's not an actual zoo.
> It's a garden supply place that also has a walk through garden.
> They do nothing with the eggs.
> My neighbor knows someone who was allowed to take a few.
> They didn't hatch


That's a shame. Hopefully you will be able to obtain some good eggs soon after they are laid and try to incubate them.


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## ZEROPILOT (Sep 21, 2020)

zovick said:


> That's a shame. Hopefully you will be able to obtain some good eggs soon after they are laid and try to incubate them.


I haven't been able to stop by there.
I'll get photos when I do.


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