# Russian tort won't eat unless food is put directly in front of face



## Toast (Aug 15, 2016)

I adopted my russian tort, toast, 3 months ago with literally no background info about him. Since i got him he never eats from his food bowl in the tank he never drinks or bathes in the water there either. The only time he eats and bathe is daily when i let him have floor time. I put him in water and let him soak in there for a little bit then i give him food. Im not sure if he has like vision issues and doesnt know where things are bc he literally has to have his food be placed in front of his face like touching front shell, if i place it a few inches in front of him he just walks over it then drags it under shell and searches for it. Idk if the owners before only hand fed him or if there is an issue. My mom is telling me to just keep supplying him food and water in his tank (which i do) and not give him the stuff during floor time bc she says if he wants it enough he'll get it in his tank. But i think that is just cruel to do to toast so i refuse to do that. Do you think he is justed used to old routine or there is an actual problem?


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## Lyn W (Aug 15, 2016)

I agree with your mum you will be making a rod for your own back if you hand feed him all the time. Hungry torts will eat, they have a great sense of smell so they will find food but they seem to take great delight in walking all over it. I serve Lola's food on a slate and it looks lovely - but not for long!! I never see my tort drinking or bathing in his dish either, he may do it while I'm at work but I do soak him regularly just to be on the safe side.
Have you found the Russian caresheet for Toast yet? This will tell you all about diet and the sort of foods he'll enjoy.
www.thetortoisetable.org.uk is a great guide to tort safe foods too.


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## Toast (Aug 15, 2016)

Lyn W said:


> I agree with your mum you will be making a rod for your own back if you hand feed him all the time. Hungry torts will eat, they have a great sense of smell so they will find food but they seem to take great delight in walking all over it. I serve Lola's food on a slate and it looks lovely - but not for long!! I never see my tort drinking or bathing in his dish either, he may do it while I'm at work but I do soak him regularly just to be on the safe side.
> Have you found the Russian caresheet for Toast yet? This will tell you all about diet and the sort of foods he'll enjoy.
> www.thetortoisetable.org.uk is a great guide to tort safe foods too.


Thank you


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## wellington (Aug 15, 2016)

Just for an FYI, floor time is not good and not recommended. There are a lot of things that could hurt him or make him sick being on the floor. Just keep that in mind


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## Linhdan Nguyen (Aug 15, 2016)

How does his eyes look? Are they clear ? 
I agree that this may be a learned behavior from being hand fed previously though. And tortoises can go months without eating , just make sure you soak often


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## Toast (Aug 15, 2016)

wellington said:


> Just for an FYI, floor time is not good and not recommended. There are a lot of things that could hurt him or make him sick being on the floor. Just keep that in mind


I have a small area for him where the geoumd is covered, is that ok?


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## Toast (Aug 15, 2016)

Linhdan Nguyen said:


> How does his eyes look? Are they clear ?
> I agree that this may be a learned behavior from being hand fed previously though. And tortoises can go months without eating , just make sure you soak often


Thank you. And i think his eyes are clear they are closed most of the time


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## wellington (Aug 15, 2016)

Toast said:


> I have a small area for him where the geoumd is covered, is that ok?


You mean where an area is blocked off just for him and the floor is cover with a plastic? That should be fine. Just remember it's always colder on the floor. So be sure in the colder months, it's colder on the floor and if you have AC on, cool air falls to the floor so it will be colder then too. Russians do fine in cooler temps then a lot of the others but they still need to warm up under a basking light where the temp reaches 90-100 degrees to properly digest their food.


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## Toast (Aug 15, 2016)

wellington said:


> You mean where an area is blocked off just for him and the floor is cover with a plastic? That should be fine. Just remember it's always colder on the floor. So be sure in the colder months, it's colder on the floor and if you have AC on, cool air falls to the floor so it will be colder then too. Russians do fine in cooler temps then a lot of the others but they still need to warm up under a basking light where the temp reaches 90-100 degrees to properly digest their food.


Yea i have a small fenced corner but no with plastic i have like this reptile fake grass down i got from the store


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## mctlong (Aug 15, 2016)

Toast said:


> Thank you. And i think his eyes are clear they are closed most of the time



Closed most of the time? As in sleeping most of the time? What are his temps?


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## Tidgy's Dad (Aug 15, 2016)

Should be okay if it's kept clean and you're careful with the temperatures.
Outside in the garden time is better, if it's possible to provide a safe enclosure outside where you are. 
Leave his food in the enclosure. 
He will eat when he's hungry enough.
You are the boss, not him.


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## Toast (Aug 15, 2016)

mctlong said:


> Closed most of the time? As in sleeping most of the time? What are his temps?


His temp is usually 90 in the tank and they're just really squinted all the time even when he walks and he just walks into things


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## Tidgy's Dad (Aug 15, 2016)

You should have separate temperatures for his basking spot, warm side of the tank, cool side and night time.
Do you know all these, please ?


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## Toast (Aug 15, 2016)

Tidgy's Dad said:


> You should have separate temperatures for his basking spot, warm side of the tank, cool side and night time.
> Do you know all these, please ?


At night i turn the heat lamp off bc my room is around 80 and the basking is where the most heat is from the lamp and the cool side is near his food and water and his hide is near the basking area but not right in the heat. Is that right?


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## Linhdan Nguyen (Aug 15, 2016)

How does his enclosure look? can you post a picture and let us know about this care/ routine?


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## Toast (Aug 15, 2016)

Linhdan Nguyen said:


> How does his enclosure look? can you post a picture and let us know about this care/ routine?


Im not home rn but ill do that whem i get there but i gice him floor time for about 1 hr a day, i soak him and feed daily, i clean the peat moss in the tank and i give vegues as food mostly and he likes grass


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## Toast (Aug 15, 2016)

Toast said:


> Im not home rn but ill do that whem i get there but i gice him floor time for about 1 hr a day, i soak him and feed daily, i clean the peat moss in the tank and i give vegues as food mostly and he likes grass


 his eyes have been mostly closed ever since i got him


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## Linhdan Nguyen (Aug 15, 2016)

Okay. 
I see from your previous post you say that the temp for the enclosure during the day is 90. Thats pretty high for a russians ambient temp. Is there a way to lower this? 90 on the hot side could be okay. 
Do you have a uvb light? If yes, what kind of bulb is it & how many watts?


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## Linhdan Nguyen (Aug 15, 2016)

Also, do you know how humid it is in his enclosure? 
Im not sure, hopefully other members will correct me if i'm wrong but could high humidity for a russian make him want to squint/close his eyes? Since they are not use to it?


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## wellington (Aug 15, 2016)

I think we need a lot more info with pics. The fake grass on the floor area and being fenced off is fine.
On to the enclosure. We need size of enclosure, temps, type of bulbs using. Picture would help a lot. His eyes should not be closed unless sleeping.


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## Toast (Aug 15, 2016)

Linhdan Nguyen said:


> Okay.
> I see from your previous post you say that the temp for the enclosure during the day is 90. Thats pretty high for a russians ambient temp. Is there a way to lower this? 90 on the hot side could be okay.
> Do you have a uvb light? If yes, what kind of bulb is it & how many watts?


Yes i have a uvb light, ive shut it off for days at a time and the temperature stays at 90 (probably bc my room doesn't have an ac vent)


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## Toast (Aug 15, 2016)

wellington said:


> I think we need a lot more info with pics. The fake grass on the floor area and being fenced off is fine.
> On to the enclosure. We need size of enclosure, temps, type of bulbs using. Picture would help a lot. His eyes should not be closed unless sleeping.


Yea im not sure if he jsut naturally squints bc even when i was at the store his eyes squint but petco said he was ok, i mean i probably shouldve known something was up but im a silly kid so i didn't realize. The enclosure is 50 gallon tank and both bulbs are 50 watts


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## Toast (Aug 15, 2016)

Linhdan Nguyen said:


> Also, do you know how humid it is in his enclosure?
> Im not sure, hopefully other members will correct me if i'm wrong but could high humidity for a russian make him want to squint/close his eyes? Since they are not use to it?







this is what i dont get, his eyes were squinted when i brought him home even when i looked at him in the store but me being a lid thought he was just tired


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## wellington (Aug 15, 2016)

Are the bulbs you are using the coil type?


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## Toast (Aug 15, 2016)

wellington said:


> Are the bulbs you are using the coil type?


Whete would i find that information i still have the box


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## Linhdan Nguyen (Aug 15, 2016)

Toast said:


> this is what i dont get, his eyes were squinted when i brought him home even when i looked at him in the store but me being a lid thought he was just tired


These types honestly arent that accurate  i use to have those til a member told me of the inaccuracy. I went out to buy 2 digital thermometers with probes and my temps were off by 10F . My basking spot was a little over 110F. 
The coil bulbs are the ones that spiral.


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## wellington (Aug 15, 2016)

Do they look like either one of these


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## JoesMum (Aug 16, 2016)

Hi there

Apologies if you have already read these, but you really do need to do so for the full picture on how to care for your Russian 

Beginner Mistakes 
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/beginner-mistakes.45180/

Russian Care
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/russian-tortoise-care-sheet.80698/


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## JoesMum (Aug 16, 2016)

And here's a lighting summary that explains the lighting requirements in more detail. 

Your tort needs:

1. A basking lamp
This must hang vertically, not at an angle. Basking is essential to raise your tortoise's core temperature so it can digest food.

2. UVB light
Read the instructions for the source to see how close to the substrate it must be. UVB is essential so your tort can process dietary calcium and have healthy bones and shell. 

Both 1 and 2 are available from the sun for those able to live outside. 

UVB does not pass through glass or perspex(plexiglass) - light must be direct to be effective not through a window. Mesh screening can also interfere with UVB. 

3. A minimum overnight temperature (about 65F for a Russian) and complete darkness at night to sleep. 


Notes

(a) A Mercury Vapor Bulb (MVB) provides combined UVB and Basking. Alternatively you can use 2 bulbs: a tube UVB and a reflector bulb for basking (a household reflector - not low energy or halogen - from a hardware store will do the job; it's the wattage that counts)

(b) Ignore any references to UVA you may read - it's misleading marketing speak. 

(c) Compact coil UVB harms tortoise eyes and must not be used. 

(d) Basking and UVB should be on a timer so the light(s) are on for 12 hours a day. Temperature under the basking is regulated by its height above the substrate. 

(e) Overnight, depending on your home, you may need additional heat. You get this from a CHE (Ceramic Heat Emitter) which must be on a thermostat. 

(f) Torts have outstanding colour vision and love red and purple food. Coloured heat lamps colour tank decor and torts don't always apply intelligence to what they eat, resulting them in eating tank decor. Coloured bulbs should not be used. 


Measurements 

There are 4 important temperatures that you must know for an indoor enclosure. 
- Directly under the basking lamp
- Warm side
- Cool side
- Overnight Minimum

You will need digital thermometers for accuracy. 

A temperature gun thermometer (inexpensive from Amazon) measures temperature accurately in specific places like directly under the basking lamp. 

A min/max thermometer so you know the min/max temperatures in your home by day and night. 

You should also get a good digital probe hygrometer to measure humidity. 

Thermometers and hygrometers that stick to the side of the enclosure, especially analogue ones, tend to be less accurate.


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## Toast (Aug 16, 2016)

Linhdan Nguyen said:


> These types honestly arent that accurate  i use to have those til a member told me of the inaccuracy. I went out to buy 2 digital thermometers with probes and my temps were off by 10F . My basking spot was a little over 110F.
> The coil bulbs are the ones that spiral.






these are thw lamps


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## Toast (Aug 16, 2016)

wellington said:


> Do they look like either one of these
> View attachment 183786
> View attachment 183787


Yes


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## wellington (Aug 16, 2016)

Toast said:


> Yes


Stop using the coil bulb and see if things improve. Not all the coil bulbs are bad and not all tortoises have problems with them, but not using it will tell you if that's the problem. It might take a week or two, possibly longer as I'm sure that's what the store was using also. Those type bulbs are not meant to be hung that way either. If you're tort gets outside for natural sunlight 3-4 times a week then you can use a regular incondescent bulb for added heat and light. Otherwise a flourescent tube UVB or a UVB mercury vapor bulb. If temps are getting too high, then put the light(not the Mercury one) on a thermostat or put the ceramic heat emitter on one.


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## Toast (Aug 16, 2016)

wellington said:


> Stop using the coil bulb and see if things improve. Not all the coil bulbs are bad and not all tortoises have problems with them, but not using it will tell you if that's the problem. It might take a week or two, possibly longer as I'm sure that's what the store was using also. Those type bulbs are not meant to be hung that way either. If you're tort gets outside for natural sunlight 3-4 times a week then you can use a regular incondescent bulb for added heat and light. Otherwise a flourescent tube UVB or a UVB mercury vapor bulb. If temps are getting too high, then put the light(not the Mercury one) on a thermostat or put the ceramic heat emitter on one.


Okay thank you. Ill do that.


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## BrianWI (Aug 16, 2016)

Toast said:


> Okay thank you. Ill do that.


I would look at other things as the issue. What is the humidity, the substrate, etc.? Water dish? Diet? Sometimes people get carried away on one non-issue and overlook the real one.


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## Toast (Aug 16, 2016)

BrianWI said:


> I would look at other things as the issue. What is the humidity, the substrate, etc.? Water dish? Diet? Sometimes people get carried away on one non-issue and overlook the real one.


The humidity says its abput 45 his water dish is in the tank and he uses it but i also soak him daily for a bit and mostly vegetables


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## JoesMum (Aug 16, 2016)

Toast said:


> The humidity says its about 45


That's very low. Please read the care guide. You need to get it much higher. 



> his water dish is in the tank and he uses it but i also soak him daily for a bit


A bit?
Every day? Once a week? Occasionally?
5 minutes? 20 minutes? Longer?
Soaking needs to be for a minimum of 20 minutes and a minimum of 3 times a week. Longer soaks and more frequent soaks are needed in warmer and dryer conditions. 



> and mostly vegetables


More detail needed. What 'vegetables'?

I'm sorry, but for us to help you we need specific information as we can't second guess what you mean.


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## BrianWI (Aug 16, 2016)

I would dampen the substrate. Do you have a hide? What is it?

For diet, you need leafy green veggies, not tomatoes and peas. Throw in green weeds from outside. Get a calcium supplement. Perhaps think about getting some Mazuri.


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## Yvonne G (Aug 16, 2016)

If you can find a cheap aquarium hood that fits your tortoise habitat, I would mount that UVB bulb in an aquarium hood so that it lays horizontally instead of vertically like it is.


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## Toast (Aug 16, 2016)

Yvonne G said:


> If you can find a cheap aquarium hood that fits your tortoise habitat, I would mount that UVB bulb in an aquarium hood so that it lays horizontally instead of vertically like it is.


I have a cover for it, its like metal mesh i mean i can try that but my mom doesn't want me to have it touching the cover incase if it knocks off or something but i will try to convince her thank you


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## Toast (Aug 16, 2016)

BrianWI said:


> I would dampen the substrate. Do you have a hide? What is it?
> 
> For diet, you need leafy green veggies, not tomatoes and peas. Throw in green weeds from outside. Get a calcium supplement. Perhaps think about getting some Mazuri.


I have a hide and they do nt have one the size of toast at every store ive been to so i am using a long wide box
I dont feed him tomatoes and those things, i get dandelions from my yard and give him those and i also feed lettuce alot


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## Toast (Aug 16, 2016)

JoesMum said:


> That's very low. Please read the care guide. You need to get it much higher.
> 
> 
> A bit?
> ...



I soak him every day for about half an hour and i feed him dandelions and lettuce alot and sorey for not giving information quickly


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## wellington (Aug 16, 2016)

I would remove the bulb, change it out for one I mentioned and see if that helps the issue! Everything else seems to be good. Increase the variety in the diet to as much as you can find.


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## BrianWI (Aug 16, 2016)

Toast said:


> I soak him every day for about half an hour and i feed him dandelions and lettuce alot and sorey for not giving information quickly


Some lettuce isn't very nutritious. Go for the spring mix, escarole, endive. Dandelions are GREAT too, keep those coming.

Still get some water into the substrate.

How big is he? Sometimes the tortoises from petstores don't get the best care. It may take a bit to turn him around.

Can you take pictures of his eyes?


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## Toast (Aug 16, 2016)

wellington said:


> I would remove the bulb, change it out for one I mentioned and see if that helps the issue! Everything else seems to be good. Increase the variety in the diet to as much as you can find.


Okay i will try, im getting my first job soon so i will ba able to buy toast alot more food thsm just what my mom will buy


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## Toast (Aug 16, 2016)

BrianWI said:


> Some lettuce isn't very nutritious. Go for the spring mix, escarole, endive. Dandelions are GREAT too, keep those coming.
> 
> Still get some water into the substrate.
> 
> ...




Yea i use the spring mix and baby spinache and the crunchy lettuce with the purple tips. Yea when i adopted him from the store they said thwy just got him in from a donation and he didn't even have a lamp and the tank was small small




this is toast


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## BrianWI (Aug 16, 2016)

Have a side view?


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