# Dont know species so I posted here.



## Thalatte (Jan 7, 2013)

Some more photos in the "mostly desert tort" rescue from Phoenix. My sister is currently caring for him until I get up there or she comes down here-whichever is first.
Haven't got a name for him and the girl didn't say what he was called so any suggestions are welcomed. 
I know the cage is inadequate so I gave her a list of things to get/change as well as a list of foods to give him. I don't know if I will actually ever get him as my sister is falling in love with him. Also he is now on a tall table so the dogs don't disturb him. And he gets several hours of outside time in the middle of the day when its the hottest.


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## Yvonne G (Jan 7, 2013)

Man that tortoise needs to be outside. I'd guess he's never been under a UVB light. And an aquarium is absolutely no place for a tortoise of that size. He is either a desert tortoise, a texas tortoise or a hybrid between the two. I'd like to see if he has a nuchal scute...that's the part of the carapace directly over the head. It sort of looks like there is one in the first picture. That would mean desert tortoise.


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## Thalatte (Jan 7, 2013)

Ok. So a closer shot of the torts shell around his head? 
And your right I don't think she have him any UVB or supplements or anything. Am she seemed surprised when I asked about his diet and didn't even mention lights nor where they included with the stuff she gave my sister and she did say that was all his stuff.

If we discount the "desert" part and think of him as not being in the gopherous family does he look like any other kind? 
Of tortoise species I have only dealt with Sonorans(his face kinda reminds me of one), sulcatas, Russians, and Greeks so I have no clue what other species looks like. I don't care either way but I would like to nail down his species so I know exactly what he needs.


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## Yvonne G (Jan 7, 2013)

No, he's Gopherus for sure. And illegal to buy and sell.


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## Thalatte (Jan 7, 2013)

I don't plan in selling him and know about the laws as I deal in sonorans but like all laws there are some loopholes and as long as the local wardens are aware of what's going on most of the time they are ok with it. Plus I had proven I am a capable tort owner and have always passed all inspections so they were willing to over look my acquisition. It's rare and I certainly discourage others from obtaining the gopherous this way but now he is in a better home (or will be come this weekend).

As far as being a Sonoran/Texas that will help a but as atleast they have similar care so I can work on his temps and new enclosure. My only question now is if he is a hybrid of the two what size do you think he will be?


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## Thalatte (Jan 10, 2013)

Well my sister called at midnight last night concerned for his breathing. Said it sounds like he "hisses" and his head jerks but nothing is coming from his nose and it isn't all the time. And he eats his veggies "too fast" and when placed outside he just goes into the sun and then "flops" out wih his arms and legs fully extended and his head out.
Upon further questionin it sounds like the hissing is from being startled. Either way I will be getting him Sunday afternoon and he has a vet appt. Tuesday afternoon.


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## ascott (Jan 10, 2013)

> "hisses" hissing is from being startled.
> 
> goes into the sun and then "flops" out wih his arms and legs fully extended and his head out.



Hissing, normal---slow down and approach the tort so he can see you approaching...

"flops" ---totally normal for a tort to be sprawled out in this fashion while basking...



> Gopherus for sure.


Absolutely 

What state do you /your sister reside in?


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## Thalatte (Jan 10, 2013)

We are in Arizona.

I thought he was probably a gopherous but wanted to be sure he wasn't something else.


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## Tom (Jan 10, 2013)

Definitely Gopherus. I can't tell from the pics which one either. I'm leaning toward agassizii though. Care is the same either way. Sounds like this one has a great personality. They have to be pretty comfortable to just sprawl out in the sun like that.


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## Thalatte (Jan 10, 2013)

Apparently he likes his neck being rubbed and will lean into my sisters hand when she pets him there. Doesn't like his face being touched though.
So I will just set him up exactly like Dozer then. I bring them in for the winter do you think a 4x4 enclosure would suffice? 
The outside pens I think will be 4x9each...


Oh what angle shots do you need? A top view and one of the plastron?


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## Tom (Jan 10, 2013)

Those enclosure sizes are awfully small. I'd recommend double that inside and triple that outside.

We need a shot of the front of the carapace, just above the neck.


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## Thalatte (Jan 12, 2013)

Tom said:


> Those enclosure sizes are awfully small. I'd recommend double that inside and triple that outside.
> 
> We need a shot of the front of the carapace, just above the neck.



Ok I will see about getting the pic when I pick him up Sunday morning. 
You think they will need more than a 4x4 for a hibernation chamber? Well what about 9x3? or I could connect a 9x3 to the 4x4 so that they are L shaped.
Outside will take some thinking then. I will probably move the smaller one into the front yard but will need to take new measurements. Is it ok if they have a good bit of concrete? Cause I could make the enclosures much bigger if they are fine with concrete.


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## Thalatte (Jan 13, 2013)

I think he has a bit of mbd and I don't hear anything wrong with his breathing but he will still be going to a vet.


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## Thalatte (Jan 14, 2013)

Also he is 530grams and 6 1/2 in scl.


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## Yvonne G (Jan 14, 2013)

He definitely seems weak in those pictures. I don't like to contradict a member, but I'm thinking that because this tortoise is sick, your 4x4 indoor habitat will be just fine for the winter. And, no, don't hibernate him. Set the habitat up with heat all over the area at least 80F and 85F would be even better. Soak him every day in warm water and if he hasn't been eating, you can add a jar of Gerber strained carrots to the water. 20 minutes at least.


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## Thalatte (Jan 14, 2013)

I was holding him and he had just woken up so he was kinda lethargic. I will take some photos when he is cruising around as he seems fairly active for his condition. 
He does eat a good bit but the food he has had is the petstore "tortoise pellets"...they are small round and someone posted a thread on them not too long ago but the name brand escapes me..
The 4x4 was more as a next year hibernation chamber as I am hoping he will be healthy and a good weight by then. Until he reaches that point I will probably set up a little pen in my room so he can have the full run when I am home and when I am not be can have a good bit of space. I was thinking 3humid hides, a large dish for soaking, a basking MVB lamp and 2 18in reptisun fixtures. I will also put a small space heater in the room to keep it at 80. Is this a good idea? He only has a few more months before he will be outside.
For now he is in 3x2? Plastic container (one of those storage units that rolls under the bed) that has a heating pad and 18in reptisun. Temps were 87 on the floor of the hot side and 78on the cold side humidity at 63%. After work today I will rework the enclosure to give him more space and to add the extra lights.
Also I think he is just a pure Sonoran. What do you think?


Rep-cal tortoise food!


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## Thalatte (Jan 14, 2013)

I changed his enclosure today to a 4x2 tank I had and gave him some toys to admire!


Yes those are legoes and no he can't reach them even if he stood up.


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## Thalatte (Jan 18, 2013)

He seems to be doing good. His vet appt showed negative on parasites and respiratory infections. He does have calcium defective cels and his shell is funny but nothing to bad. Doesn't think he has bad mbd so special diet and lots of care and he will recover. 
His shell used to be dark black. I think it was from no UVB and from all the vita shell treatments as he was very shiny and waxy looking. When I soak him I take a soft toothbrush and have been scrubbing the shell. I have also used some ultra fine sand as an abrasive to gently scrub him down. So far the flat part of his scutes is turning brown and the overall shell is less shiny so I think it is working.
He is also off the pellets and on a diet of kale, escarole, spring mix, collards, 4types of squash, and prickly pear cactus. He eats about 2cups of salad a day and is very regular.


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## l0velesly (Jan 19, 2013)

Looks like he's on a much better diet.  I suggest that you take him out for sun whenever it's possible as well.


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## Thalatte (Jan 19, 2013)

I try. If he is awake when I get home then he will get supervised exploration out front (it isn't fenced) then a bath and his second salad. If he is sleeping then I just refill his food and water and leave him alone. Tomorrow I have off and it's supposed to be fairly warm out so I think all torts and turtles will go outside for a bit.


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## Thalatte (Jan 24, 2013)

It is now warm enough that he is in an 6x3 ft pen in the backyard during he day and I bring him in at night. 
Also he is a Butthead. He is very territorial and will ram any animal that eats too close including the dogs. So he no longer gets roaming time in the large pen and has to be seperated at all times.


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## reticguy76 (Jan 28, 2013)

They are a solitary animal. Its good to keep them separate.


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## Thalatte (Jan 28, 2013)

They usually are. I have smaller seperate enclosures (smallest is 2x8, largest 6x8 ) connected to a large communal exercise yard (1/4 of an acre I think) that they can all be in when i am home. It worked with tank and Dozer and all other torts/turtles I had before but it is getting harder now that they are all bigger. I will be redoing the entire yard and enclosures in the next few months so the two sonorans have their own enclosures and the sulcatas will be in one for now. This will lead enough room to have a fairly good sized garden area for fresh foods and this area will also be for exercising the turtles.
I think this will last for 2years before I redo everything yet again.


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## ascott (Jan 28, 2013)

I would reconsider the use solely of sand for the substrate, such an increase risk of an impaction issue.

I think I may be reading your post incorrectly? Are you allowing your desert torts to share the same roaming space as your other tort species?? I hope I am mis understanding you---this is such a huge risk factor for them to cross contaminate one another....

Territorial; desert torts are EXTREMELY "territorial" and will fight one another (as well as any other species, regardless of size) until they sustain horrible damage and or die.....please keep this in mind.


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