# Opinion: Feral Cats



## kurmaraja12 (Oct 4, 2012)

Ok everyone, i need your opinion on something...

We recently moved into the suburbs near St. Louis. Our new house is in a nice, newer subdivision and it's full of families with small children. Our next door neighbors have a lovely backyard full of plants and trees and such. Well, shortly after we moved in I noticed that they had an outdoor cat... or two...ok well more like 4! They usually stay in their yard and will sit on the neighbor's deck. I'm fine with outdoor cats, as long as people have them spayed and neutered as to not allow overpopulation. They do not bother us, but they do come up on our deck and walk around and poo in our yard. However they are not aggressive and run away if we make an approach. None of them wear collars and all of them are somewhat slim.

Today I was outside and i noticed 3 adult cats in the yard between our houses. Then i noticed 3-4 kittens with the adults. The neighbors have two smallish bowls on their deck for one or all of the cats, i don't know. My problem with this is A. the cats are not spayed/neutered and are reproducing and B. We are getting a kitten saturday from a breeder and I do not want the male cats spraying/marking my house because they smell my cat inside (our cat will not be going outdoors). Not to mention if we had the screen door closed but the glass door open, i am afraid they could pass something between them. 

Listen, I have no problem with outdoor cats but I have a problem with people who do not keep them responsibly. I see so many cats in shelters and it makes me sad because sometimes those litters are the results of feral, un-fixed cats like these next door. 

My question to you all is, what should i do?

I personally want to call animal control and have them taken away. But i also do not want to offend my neighbors. My plan is that tomorrow i am going to go knock on the door, introduce myself, chit-chat, and kindly ask if all of those cats are theirs or not. Then i will ask if they know that the cats had kittens and what they planned on doing with them, and possibly offer to call animal control/humane society for an extraction. I personally don't want my yard overrunning with cats, as they are slowly making their way into our yard as well. Am I way out of line? What do i do if they say they don't care? Are there ordinances against nuisance feral cats?


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## Jacqui (Oct 4, 2012)

Did you just move in next door to me? (which I know you didn't thank goodness)

I am on the other side of this coin, I feed and care for as best as I can all the cats who show up at my door. I spay and nueter, when I have the money. I am also okay with kittens that may happen, because I know I am the one who will be feeding them, they will not be going to shelters. I feel I have done my duty in the past adopting from shelters, so yeah I have the right to have kittens born here on my place. Even when not born here, I get a constant supply dumped out here. Thank goodness I have neighbors who are true cat lovers and have no major problem with my cats. I sorta see them putting up with my cats as part of being a good neighbor. Sorta like I put up with the noise from small children, the extra car traffic (and noise from said cars), of houses filled with those same children or young adults, or loud music from those cars or houses, trash thrown out windows, ect.., I think being a good neighbor means putting up with those things. The watching each other's back and making allowances for each other.

I have a major pet peeve with folks moving into a place and the first thing they want to do is make their neighbors, who were there when they moved in, change their way of doing things.

Believe me, I would become your worse nightmare, if you started calling animal control on my animals. I am the type who thinks what goes around comes around and it would be a war zone with me calling authorities on you and yours for any and every little thing. If your kitten got loose, well good luck finding it.


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## wellington (Oct 4, 2012)

I would call a rescue and see if they would either come catch them or if you can catch them and bring them in. I personally wouldn't say anything to the neighbors. Sounds like they won't care what you say, but if you talk to them, and then they do nothing, but now you have to do something, well now your at war with the neighbor, as they will know you did it.


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## Jacqui (Oct 4, 2012)

wellington said:


> I would call a rescue and see if they would either come catch them or if you can catch them and bring them in. I personally wouldn't say anything to the neighbors. Sounds like they won't care what you say, but if you talk to them, and then they do nothing, but now you have to do something, well now your at war with the neighbor, as they will know you did it.



Do you really think they won't know it's her???


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## wellington (Oct 4, 2012)

Jacqui said:


> wellington said:
> 
> 
> > I would call a rescue and see if they would either come catch them or if you can catch them and bring them in. I personally wouldn't say anything to the neighbors. Sounds like they won't care what you say, but if you talk to them, and then they do nothing, but now you have to do something, well now your at war with the neighbor, as they will know you did it.
> ...



If she talks to them first they will know. If she just has a rescue take care of it, they might figure it's the new 
neighbor, but won't really know if she, or the rest just finally got fed up, now that there are kittens.


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## Jacqui (Oct 4, 2012)

wellington said:


> If she talks to them first they will know. If she just has a rescue take care of it, they might figure it's the new
> neighbor, but won't really know if she, or the rest just finally got fed up, now that there are kittens.



I can say, if I had a new neighbor and my animals came up missing, the first person I would suspect is the new neighbor.


Plus I can not believe you can be so mean as to take away somebody's pets. Believe me, I worry about every one of those wild cats that come to my place to eat. I even worry about the strays whom I persoanlly do not like. Just because they are outside, does not make them feral or does not make them loved. Some folks believe cats should be free outside. Sorta like in here we have folks who think tortoises should never be living inside, some who have them both in and out, and those who have them only inside.


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## terryo (Oct 4, 2012)

Why don't you take one of her kittens (ask her first, of course) instead of getting one from a breeder. It would be one less cat for you to worry about outside. I'm afraid you'd hate me too. I feed everything, all the neighborhood cats, squirrels, birds. My neighbor and I try to catch some and chip in to have them spayed, but they are all over. It's very sad with Winter coming so I leave my garage open just a bit for any to come in out of the cold.


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## EricIvins (Oct 4, 2012)

Feral Cats have no place outside of a household. Same thing goes for a Dog, or any other animal. It has nothing to do with who moved in where. They don't belong. As far as I'm concerned, a responsible "Pet" owner would keep their animals indoors and not let them roam to breed disease and contribute to over whelming Feral populations........


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## kurmaraja12 (Oct 4, 2012)

Jacqui, you bring up some very valid points. I don't want to take anyone's animals away. And I do worry about the kittens because it is getting cold out at night. Don't think I want to just stick it to my neighbors, maybe I came off sort of cold. But I also just don't want my yard to be overrun with cats as well. Tomorrow I will ask if she at least knows there are kittens and what she plans on doing with them. Then I will rethink calling animal control.


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## Jacqui (Oct 4, 2012)

EricIvins said:


> Feral Cats have no place outside of a household. Same thing goes for a Dog, or any other animal. It has nothing to do with who moved in where. They don't belong. As far as I'm concerned, a responsible "Pet" owner would keep their animals indoors and not let them roam to breed disease and contribute to over whelming Feral populations........



How do you know these animals are not healthy and have all their shots? How do you know those adults are not spayed and nuetered? Some folks think cats belong outside, just like tortoises. Wait, so all our pet tortoises should be staying inside the house too???


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## kurmaraja12 (Oct 4, 2012)

EricIvins said:


> Feral Cats have no place outside of a household. Same thing goes for a Dog, or any other animal. It has nothing to do with who moved in where. They don't belong. As far as I'm concerned, a responsible "Pet" owner would keep their animals indoors and not let them roam to breed disease and contribute to over whelming Feral populations........



I agree, I enjoy animals too but these are posing some threats to me and people in very closeproximity.


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## CDNPyxis (Oct 4, 2012)

I agree with a lot of Jacqui's points, it does not matter how much you chit-chat before, if you bring up the cats on your first meeting with them they will know that the chit-chat was purely keeping up appearances. You can casually ask them if they have cats or about them and see what their response is, you will be able to read a lot about them with that conversation. But IMO you do nothing and say nothing right now, that may be hard for you, but this is your neighbour, I have lived beside some crummy people, and a few cats can be the least of your issues. 

As a person myself that does not always abide by every city rule, I appreciate the fact that I have accepting neighbours who will not call in the city when I decide to do something I really shouldn't be. My next door neighbour has 5 sheads in their backyard, I don't like them, but I would never say anything. 

You may be able to do something about the cats over time, but unless they are a real issue for you, now is probably not the best time.

Craig


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## wellington (Oct 4, 2012)

Jacqui said:


> wellington said:
> 
> 
> > If she talks to them first they will know. If she just has a rescue take care of it, they might figure it's the new
> ...





It's not that I would want to take someone's pet. Someone that takes care of them that is. I don't feel these are taken care of, or they wouldn't have so many to roam and dirty the neighbors and to reproduce. They can't be spayed or neutered if there are kittens. I also wouldn't call animal control either. A rescue, who will take proper care of them and find them new loving caring homes. The animal control will just kill them. I also don't believe cats should be left outside. They are domesticated. They deserve to be treated as such. Which is in a loving caring warm house. If they weren't bothering anyone, then it wouldn't be a problem. They are, it's a problem. If they neighbors don't care about the cats, they aren't going to care about what they are doing. I fed strays too. I still would again. Would never let an animal go hungry. However, when it becomes a problem, then something has to be done. Besides, my only concern really is for the cats, not the people that own them.


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## Jacqui (Oct 4, 2012)

kurmaraja12 said:


> Jacqui, you bring up some very valid points. I don't want to take anyone's animals away. And I do worry about the kittens because it is getting cold out at night. Don't think I want to just stick it to my neighbors, maybe I came off sort of cold. But I also just don't want my yard to be overrun with cats as well. Tomorrow I will ask if she at least knows there are kittens and what she plans on doing with them. Then I will rethink calling animal control.



As you can tell, this is something very near and dear to me. I spend over $10 a day feeding cats. I spent $50 this week on Vet bills. Every cat I spay cost me about $100. So I invest a lot of time and money into these animals. I have a garage and enclosed porches for the outside cats. I also have some cats which live in the house and only in the house. Currently my bedroom is where I work on taming the wild kittens. I am working with a litter of four and three single kittens (the singles are all dump out kittens by the way) to get them gentled. Anybody who thinks all outside cats should be spayed, if you want to pay for it, send your money to my Vet and I will have them going in for the surgeries the next day. Meanwhile, they will get spayed and nuetered as I have the money to do so. First priority for me, is having everybody feed and healthy.

I feel sorry for the inside only cats for never getting to run and play in the sunshine and for the wild ones for the dangers they face that the house ones will never know. It's funny, my inside cats ALWAYS want to go outside, but the outside cats only want in when it gets cold outside. Watching both groups, I really think the happiest cats are those who live outside. Funny, I think that about my tortoise, too.


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## EricIvins (Oct 4, 2012)

Jacqui said:


> EricIvins said:
> 
> 
> > Feral Cats have no place outside of a household. Same thing goes for a Dog, or any other animal. It has nothing to do with who moved in where. They don't belong. As far as I'm concerned, a responsible "Pet" owner would keep their animals indoors and not let them roam to breed disease and contribute to over whelming Feral populations........
> ...



Usually people keep their Tortoises confined, not roaming the neighborhood. It does not matter if they are spayed, neutered, or are able to carry on a conversation. They are a nuisence. Plain and simple.......


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## Jacqui (Oct 4, 2012)

wellington said:


> They can't be spayed or neutered if there are kittens.



Barb in the real world folks dump kittens on those of us who are known to have cats. In most years, I have more kittens dumped here then born here. Currently, I am working with five who were dumped. I know of eight other kittens in this village who were dumped on the other two main "catladies" in town.


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## mainey34 (Oct 4, 2012)

Do you realize that ferral cats carry feline aids and can be transmitted from one cat to another? Yes it is true. Along with rabies. Which in Missouri felines are not required to have. I'm assuming that's where you are. I just moved from there. Also you need to check into it. I'm not really sure if you can do a whole lot about them or not. I for one do not believe that their should be animals out there running around having babies, carrying diseases, spreading them and being a nuecience.


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## Jacqui (Oct 4, 2012)

EricIvins said:


> Usually people keep their Tortoises confined, not roaming the neighborhood. It does not matter if they are spayed, neutered, or are able to carry on a conversation. They are a nuisence. Plain and simple.......



Sure seems we hear a lot about "lost" or "missing" tortoises in here, so I guess they all aren't confined. 


Why are we calling these cats "feral"? Sounds to me like they are just outside animals, not feral animals.

Feral:a. Existing in a wild or untamed state.
b. Having returned to an untamed state from domestication.


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## wellington (Oct 4, 2012)

When I was younger I had a couple indoor outdoor cats. The male got beat up by birds all the time and died at a young age. The female, not spayed, under my parents expense and couldn't afford it, got pregnant. We kept two and the mother. They all got killed, kittens, before a year old, the mother shortly after. Never had an outdoor cat again. The three indoor cats since, have lived much longer, much longer, we're healthy, happy and never wanted outside. My oldest, a Bengal I have now, 15 1/2 years old. Hasn't been sick a day in his life, until now, has Reno failure never wanted outside, never has gone outside except to the vets to be neutered, and declawed and is one happy cat. If they don't know the outside, they don't know what they are or aren't missing.


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## EricIvins (Oct 4, 2012)

Jacqui said:


> EricIvins said:
> 
> 
> > Usually people keep their Tortoises confined, not roaming the neighborhood. It does not matter if they are spayed, neutered, or are able to carry on a conversation. They are a nuisence. Plain and simple.......
> ...



Which comes down to irresponsible owners. They may have good intentions, but stupid is as stupid does.......


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## wellington (Oct 4, 2012)

Jacqui. If one of your neighbors did have a problem with your cats. They came to you and talked to you about them. Asked you to do something about them getting into their yard and let's say, using their flower bed, or kids sand box, as a litter box. What would you do? If they ask you to do something about it, should 't you do something about the problem? The problem you took on. That's what most people would probably do. I just feel that some people that treat the animals like the op is talking about, probably won't care what their cats are doing to anyone. They have probably never seen a vet, and are probably only fed, when they are remembered. Hopefully I am wrong, she will talk to the neighbors and the neighbors will try to remedy the situation. I wouldn't hold my breath though.


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## Jacqui (Oct 4, 2012)

wellington said:


> When I was younger I had a couple indoor outdoor cats. The male got beat up by birds all the time and died at a young age. The female, not spayed, under my parents expense and couldn't afford it, got pregnant. We kept two and the mother. They all got killed, kittens, before a year old, the mother shortly after. Never had an outdoor cat again. The three indoor cats since, have lived much longer, much longer, we're healthy, happy and never wanted outside. My oldest, a Bengal I have now, 15 1/2 years old. Hasn't been sick a day in his life, until now, has Reno failure never wanted outside, never has gone outside except to the vets to be neutered, and declawed and is one happy cat. If they don't know the outside, they don't know what they are or aren't missing.



Keep in mind, my inside cats all were born and lived usually for their first months as wild cats (even the ones I adopted come to think of it). Also here, my most senior cats are all ones which were born free, were made house cats, and then chose to go back outside (my children would get tired of fighting with them at the door and would finally let them go outside, these days what is inside is made to stay inside).

I just yesterday lost one of my older outside cats, Azul. She was 17. My son found her in the park with eyes very infected and she ended up losing most of her sight in one eye. She remained in the house for a couple of years, then went back outside. She was never sick, except for what she had when she came. I also never saw her go off our place. 

I have a large yard and with just a few exceptions my cats either are within our yard or visiting my neighbors who also have cats and have food out for them. I have a few cats who will follow me around, when I walk my dogs around the block and thus leave this community "backyard" situation. Everybody considers us a parade. 

By the way, very sorry to hear about your failing cat.




wellington said:


> Jacqui. If one of your neighbors did have a problem with your cats. They came to you and talked to you about them. Asked you to do something about them getting into their yard and let's say, using their flower bed, or kids sand box, as a litter box. What would you do? If they ask you to do something about it, should 't you do something about the problem? The problem you took on. That's what most people would probably do. I just feel that some people that treat the animals like the op is talking about, probably won't care what their cats are doing to anyone. They have probably never seen a vet, and are probably only fed, when they are remembered. Hopefully I am wrong, she will talk to the neighbors and the neighbors will try to remedy the situation. I wouldn't hold my breath though.



How can you jump to such conclusions about their neighbor? They don't know them and have not taken the time to know them. Do you really think the folks in my village have any idea that I keep all these cats up to date on shots (including the rabies)? Of course in this area, which is mainly farmers, cats have as a rule have no value. Their job is to hunt mice in the barns. Seldom do farmers get their aniamls even basic shots, let alone the whole series or get them spayed/nuetered. 

I just wish folks felt the same rules should hold true of children as dogs and cats... that they should have to remian in their yards or on leashes, made to be kept quiet or be taken away... (sorta said in a joking manner, but yet actually thinking that's how it really should be. I mean why can folks let their children behave worse then their animals or their neighbor's animals are allowed?).


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## wellington (Oct 4, 2012)

Thank you. Sorry to hear about your Azul, 17 that's good for an outdoor cat. However, I am thinking you don't live by very busy streets, am I right? When I had my outdoor cats in Michigan, we weren't too far from a busy highway and busy streets. Thats what took the mother and two kittens. Cats born outside are hard to keep in. Cats that have never been outside, don't care to be out. Hopefully, for the op everything will work out for everyone, especially the cats


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## Jacqui (Oct 4, 2012)

I live on the main street of a small village. We actually get more traffic then we should for the size of village in my opinion. However the funny thing is, as a rule if a cat (or somebody's dog) is sleeping in the middle of the street, cars will go around them, if they don't move. It's kinda the same thing we do for the horse a guy ties up to graze the ditch at his house and the horse often gets up onto the road.


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## wellington (Oct 4, 2012)

Hey, I'm all for children rules same as dogs or cats. I also wish cats had the same license laws as dogs. Not to punish people like you, trying to help them out and such, but so we don't need people like you.(I mean that in no homeless, feral cats) Probably impossible. LOL. I agree, most farmers don't take care of their animals, dogs, cats, etc. believe me I know quite a few farmers. I do hope I am wrong about the neighbors. However, I have found my assumptions to usually be true. Not always, but a lot of the time.




Jacqui said:


> I live on the main street of a small village. We actually get more traffic then we should for the size of village in my opinion. However the funny thing is, as a rule if a cat (or somebody's dog) is sleeping in the middle of the street, cars will go around them, if they don't move. It's kinda the same thing we do for the horse a guy ties up to graze the ditch at his house and the horse often gets up onto the road.



That's nice, except i would probably want to strangle the person letting the dog get into the road. in the city, we don't really have strays. Not here on the North side anyway. Once in a while a cat has gone missing. The city used to let cats loose in the city to render the rat problem. Ha, doesn't work very good. People like you were probably feeding them LOL.


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## Jacqui (Oct 4, 2012)

question that is a bit off topic, but when I took one of the wild kittens into the vet this week, as I was getting the shots, the Vet asked me if I want a leukemia shot for her too. Now at the time, I was surprised, but never followed through. I get all the cats all the shots they can have and never realized folks don't get all of them. Then the earlier post about cats not being required to get rabies in MO, I realized I had always just assumed cats had to get rabies shots too. Now in your state are all the shots required on cats?




wellington said:


> Ha, doesn't work very good. People like you were probably feeding them LOL.



I have always believed a well fed cat is the best hunter.  In this village, dogs are normally never on leash and are allowed to run free as long as they don't bother folks (or get into gardens during gardening season... that part is a written law.  ). My dogs are the exception with a fenced in yard or walking on leash. Use to always be a few dogs sleeping outside the bar (our village's only business).


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## wellington (Oct 4, 2012)

If your asking me. In Illinois. Cats aren't required to get any shots I have always gotten them all. I also require my renters, if they have a cat or dog to get all the shots. It should be every state at least requiring rabies.


I will be signing off, my ipad is dying and its late. Good night all.


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## ascott (Oct 4, 2012)

> roaming the neighborhood. It does not matter if they are spayed, neutered, or are able to carry on a conversation. They are a nuisence. Plain and simple.......



I have seen alot of people that fit this bill.....hmmm? Jacqui, you go on with your bad self....see, the prob is that yes, there are irresponsible people who disregard animals and in doing this there are in tact males and females---which will always equal babies, which is indeed a natural thing---and in the wild "so to speak" some will live and many will die....so they will either find a food and water source(jacqui) or will get sick and linger until they die...wow, sounds like a couple folks here think that is just too damn bad, and yup, they would I suppose be part of society that does not want to be "bothered"....

Well, Jacqui, I have been forced into the role that you have described...I have these AWESOME (sarcastic) neighbors that have brought two female cats to their property and cut them loose....mind you, I had lived here for near 6 years and NEVER EVER EVER saw a cat of any kind on my property nor anywhere surrounding my property....then they did this----now, about once a month or so--two big ole tom cats show up..do their business and move on till the females are prego...well, thankfully the two times the one female had kittens (where I don't know) none seem to have appeared anywhere--I know, sounds cruel but just the way it is....the other female has had a successful litter of 6 kittens of which 3 have remained and no sign of the others....well she just had another litter of 5...they sure are cute...and she planted them all under my front porch tree as it is shielded from hawk and falcon snatching zone because of the ground cover...so there they sit--am I going to call the pound? hell no, will they all make it to adult age, likely not---will I continue to place some food in a dish on the edge of the porch and fill the water dish for them each day, yes---then I leave them to be--some chance at life and freedom is better than none whatsoever....oh wait, let me add---In my humble opinion that is....

Also, the propagation of full bred cats and dogs in of itself, contributes directly to this quandary you are now in....I would re consider purchasing a cat and perhaps pick out one of the cuties likely living right under your nose....again, In my humble opinion that is....


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## shellysmom (Oct 5, 2012)

kurmaraja12 said:


> Jacqui, you bring up some very valid points. I don't want to take anyone's animals away. And I do worry about the kittens because it is getting cold out at night. Don't think I want to just stick it to my neighbors, maybe I came off sort of cold. But I also just don't want my yard to be overrun with cats as well. Tomorrow I will ask if she at least knows there are kittens and what she plans on doing with them. Then I will rethink calling animal control.



I've done a lot of feral cat TNR, and I think this is the best approach. You are stuck living next to this neighbor until one of you moves, and it is hell-on-earth having a neighbor who hates you. I had this exact problem in a neighborhood I used to live in. Peoples' outdoor cats were breeding with ferals, and creating lost and lots of semi-feral kittens.

This is what I would do: First, talk yo your neighbor and figure out which cats belong them, and tell her what you would like to help the other cats and kittens by getting them spayed/neutered, and vaccinated for rabies. There are programs in many communities that will loan you traps to catch ferals, and then s/n for free or extremely low cost. You put the trap out at night w/ a little bit of canned food in it, and take the trapped cat to the spay/neuter clinic the next morning, then return the cat to the same exact place once it has recovered from the surgery. However, if you catch a cat or kittens in the trap, and they meow at you and move around in the trap, it most likely means they are NOT feral, and are adoptable, so you can find homes for them or take them to the humane society. If a cat or kitten you catch is as still as a statue, crouched in the corner of the trap with eyes-wide-open, and completely silent, you have a feral cat that needs to be fixed and returned to the exact place it came from. If you catch a friendly adult cat, I would check with your other neighbors to see if it's theirs before you do anything with it. You could also take that opportunity to educate them on the dangers outdoor cats face, like disease exposure, injury from cars, etc. You might also want to talk to your other neighbors about the cat situation in general, before you decide to do anything, as _most_ people are very supportive of efforts to reduce the number of strays wandering around, as well as finding good indoor homes for adoptable kittens. When I did this in my former neighborhood, I just dropped a note in everyone's mailboxes letting them know what I was up to, otherwise someone might release cats from the trap, thinking you're taking them to animal control to have them euthanized.

The result in my neighborhood was fantastic. Most of the kittens turned out to be adoptable, so I found homes for them. Since the adult cats that remained were no longer reproducing, there was zero population growth. In fact a few of the adult cats eventually wandered off (or maybe got hit by cars?) and there were only a couple left in the end. It took some effort, but was totally worth it, in my eyes. It's kind of a win-win for everyone that way.


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## wellington (Oct 5, 2012)

That's not a bad idea. although i believe whose ever cats are causing the problem, should be the one to bare the expense of taking care of the problem. if you do it for them, some, not all but some will take advantage of it and just keep bringing in more cats. The other thing, do not put a note in the mail boxes. That's a federal offense, and you will be fined if caught doing so.


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## StudentoftheReptile (Oct 5, 2012)

I'm with Eric on this one. If the cat (or dog) is roaming around unleashed (and un-collared), and it comes on my property, it is fair game for me to capture it, take it to the shelter, or shoot it. I have no tolerance for strays or ferals. Unrestrained cats (feral or otherwise) are a nuisance at best, and a plague on small native wildlife at worse.

I don't like cats coming in my yard, catching all the lizards (sometimes for sport) that call my backporch home.

Don't get me wrong, I like cats, I've had them before, btu Eric is right; responsible cat owners get their cats fixed and keep them inside. Period. Sorry to step on peoples' toes, but no one will change my opinion on that. If people really value their pets, they'll be more responsible about it.


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## shellysmom (Oct 5, 2012)

wellington said:


> That's not a bad idea. although i believe whose ever cats are causing the problem, should be the one to bare the expense of taking care of the problem. if you do it for them, some, not all but some will take advantage of it and just keep bringing in more cats. The other thing, do not put a note in the mail boxes. That's a federal offense, and you will be fined if caught doing so.



Ummmm... perhaps I should clarify. The note I dropped was actually via the postal service. Wellington is correct, it is a federal offense to open a mailbox that does not belong to you.


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## Kerryann (Oct 5, 2012)

There are programs, at least here in Michigan, where you can have feral cats spayed, neutered, and vaccinated for $20 per cat. A guy who works with me has had about 20 cats done in this fashion. Previously he was paying to have them all done at the full price. He said they clip one of the ears so if they are picked up the animal control worker knows that the cat has been vaccinated.
My worry would be if you call animal control they are putting those cats down. I don't know of any no kill shelters willing to take in feral cats.


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## Jacqui (Oct 5, 2012)

shellysmom said:


> I've done a lot of feral cat TNR, and I think this is the best approach. You are stuck living next to this neighbor until one of you moves, and it is hell-on-earth having a neighbor who hates you. I had this exact problem in a neighborhood I used to live in. Peoples' outdoor cats were breeding with ferals, and creating lost and lots of semi-feral kittens.
> 
> This is what I would do: First, talk yo your neighbor and figure out which cats belong them, and tell her what you would like to help the other cats and kittens by getting them spayed/neutered, and vaccinated for rabies. There are programs in many communities that will loan you traps to catch ferals, and then s/n for free or extremely low cost. You put the trap out at night w/ a little bit of canned food in it, and take the trapped cat to the spay/neuter clinic the next morning, then return the cat to the same exact place once it has recovered from the surgery. However, if you catch a cat or kittens in the trap, and they meow at you and move around in the trap, it most likely means they are NOT feral, and are adoptable, so you can find homes for them or take them to the humane society. If a cat or kitten you catch is as still as a statue, crouched in the corner of the trap with eyes-wide-open, and completely silent, you have a feral cat that needs to be fixed and returned to the exact place it came from. If you catch a friendly adult cat, I would check with your other neighbors to see if it's theirs before you do anything with it. You could also take that opportunity to educate them on the dangers outdoor cats face, like disease exposure, injury from cars, etc. You might also want to talk to your other neighbors about the cat situation in general, before you decide to do anything, as _most_ people are very supportive of efforts to reduce the number of strays wandering around, as well as finding good indoor homes for adoptable kittens. When I did this in my former neighborhood, I just dropped a note in everyone's mailboxes letting them know what I was up to, otherwise someone might release cats from the trap, thinking you're taking them to animal control to have them euthanized.
> 
> The result in my neighborhood was fantastic. Most of the kittens turned out to be adoptable, so I found homes for them. Since the adult cats that remained were no longer reproducing, there was zero population growth. In fact a few of the adult cats eventually wandered off (or maybe got hit by cars?) and there were only a couple left in the end. It took some effort, but was totally worth it, in my eyes. It's kind of a win-win for everyone that way.



I think this is the best route. I wish we had a low cost s/n clinic in this area. I know the closest one that I have used is an hour and half drive away with bookings (last I knew) now a year in advance. They use some sorta of drug to knock them out for the surgery, which can cause issues. I know last time I had one of the females end up having major problems and had to be taken in to a local Vet as an emergency. That clinic really was against the drug they used for being too harsh and dangerous, also the lack of pain meds given. I have talked to my own Vet about getting reduced costs for the sheer numbers. He said his cost on the females were as low as he could go.


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## Neal (Oct 5, 2012)

My opinion - you should remove them in the most humane method you can if they are causing you to be uncomfortable or are a nuisance. The nice thing to do would be to talk with your neighbors first and try to find a solution between yourselves. But as far as I'm concerned, it doesn't matter if it's someone else's pet...allowing the cat to roam free is NOT responsible pet ownership. At least in a city or suburb area. 

I (had) a lot of feral cats in my neighborhood when we first moved in. They came in our backyard every night...dug holes in the tortoise pens, pooped in the tortoise pens, fighting and mating, chased each other, knocked over things in the tortoise pens, woke us up at all hours of the night, etc... All of which made us very uncomfortable and frustrated. On top of that, there was always the thought that these cats may be getting some kind of treatment or medication and after pooping in our tortoise pens. What if one of our tortoises digs up the poop and eats it? We keep our hatchlings outside too, I shouldn't have to spend the extra money to make my hatchling enclosures cat proof because someone doesn't take the responsibility of keeping THEIR cat out of MY backyard.

I know it's not a viewpoint that everyone would agree with, but I have the right to enjoy my own home and land and I have the primary responsibility to my tortoises and other pets. A feral cat is a threat to all of that, and I feel the right thing to do is to humanly remove them from the area.


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## Kerryann (Oct 5, 2012)

We had some friends in our neighborhood that had indoor/outdoor cats. I can see that out in the country but in our area those cats will get ran over. I didn't like that they did that, but it was their animals soooo to each their own. 
I personally don't let my dogs go out unsupervised, which means if they are outside I am there watching. We have a problem now with feral kids that live behind me, who can't stay out of my yard. 
I think you should talk to the neighbors and learn their position. Let them know the issues this is causing you. If they are good people, and this is their problem, they will remedy it. 
On the other hand, they could be neighbors like mine, who let their 2 and 4 year old roam unsupervised. I have seen them over a mile away on 40mph streets where people usually drive crazy. I have asked the neighbor politely several times to please have her kids stay out of my yard because I have a dog that doesn't like kids. The kids run through my yard like it's their path to my street, right by my house no less. The "mother" actually made a snarky comment to me about how her kids got dog poop on their shoes. I responded that my dogs only poop in my yard. Now as a result of her negligence, I have to do a kid scan before i let my dogs go potty, and I cant actively take them out to play in my own lawn. If my dog bites one of those kids they could sue me.
Sorry, you got me going on a rant. My neighbors and I are putting up rows of arborvitaes next year to block out the beverly hillbillies from our yards because they don't respond to rational requests.


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## Jacqui (Oct 5, 2012)

Neal said:


> My opinion - you should remove them in the most humane method you can if they are causing you to be uncomfortable or are a nuisance. The nice thing to do would be to talk with your neighbors first and try to find a solution between yourselves. But as far as I'm concerned, it doesn't matter if it's someone else's pet...allowing the cat to roam free is NOT responsible pet ownership. At least in a city or suburb area.
> 
> I (had) a lot of feral cats in my neighborhood when we first moved in. They came in our backyard every night...dug holes in the tortoise pens, pooped in the tortoise pens, fighting and mating, chased each other, knocked over things in the tortoise pens, woke us up at all hours of the night, etc... All of which made us very uncomfortable and frustrated. On top of that, there was always the thought that these cats may be getting some kind of treatment or medication and after pooping in our tortoise pens. What if one of our tortoises digs up the poop and eats it? We keep our hatchlings outside too, I shouldn't have to spend the extra money to make my hatchling enclosures cat proof because someone doesn't take the responsibility of keeping THEIR cat out of MY backyard.
> 
> I know it's not a viewpoint that everyone would agree with, but I have the right to enjoy my own home and land and I have the primary responsibility to my tortoises and other pets. A feral cat is a threat to all of that, and I feel the right thing to do is to humanly remove them from the area.



Sounds so much like some neighborhood children we had in the past. Wish many folks felt this way about how resposible they should be about their children, maybe then pet owners would do the same. 

It was funny one day this summer I was walking my dogs and we went down the alley that divides part of my back yard from the park. A block away I could hear a couple of children making noise. We came around past the bathhouse and one of the kids did another scream. My dog turn and gave a bark. The kids yelled, "Shut up dog!". I then turned and replied back, "He was just telling you to shut up. We heard your constant screaming from a block away." Neither he nor his Mother had anything further to say. The point is, I have never understood why a dog can not bark, yet a child can make loud noises and that is not consider offensive? 

I love living on the edge of a small village where we can have cats, dogs, and even those disease carrying children running around.  (a side note for those who do not know me, I actually do like children, for which my own four are thankful.  )


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## kurmaraja12 (Oct 5, 2012)

I really like everyone's ideas, so what I will do is go say hi and tell them that their cats have had kittens, and then offer to bring the adults to a low cost n/s place as to not increase the population. And possibly give the kittens to a rescue (IM poor and I don't know if I could pay for all the kittens to be fixed as well) And I will give them the information on such a place and a rescue also, in case they want to do it themselves.


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## JeffG (Oct 5, 2012)

I love almost every animal I have ever met, including most children. I just don't understand why anyone would think it's ok to let their animals OR children come onto my property without my permission. It's just rude in my opinion, and I would never allow any of my animals or children to step one foot on anyone else's property without the owners permission.

I have nothing against outdoor cats, as long as they aren't violating anyone's private property rights without permission.


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## wellington (Oct 5, 2012)

Kerryann, you should inform the neighbor that her kids are trespassing and that is against the law. I would then inform them, that if they don't stay out of your yard you will call the police. Let them know, once the police are involved, you will have to tell them everything you have observed. Which is two very small children, unsupervised running the streets. Which then the police will have to get the child welfare involved, and if that all happens, you (Kerryann) will never have to complain about her kids again, as they will be taken away. Maybe she will do something then. If not, call the police. I would not be able to tolerate that at all. If you are on my property or even touching it, you darn well have better been invited. Whether cats, dogs, kids, or any other animal. They all need responsible parents/owners. Unfortunately there is no law any place I believe, about cats being confined


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## Yvonne G (Oct 5, 2012)

I live in the country, but on a busy/high traffic street. People drop their unwanted cats/kittens off all the time around my neighborhood. Because I have food out for my cats all the time, these strays usually end up at my house. At one time I had 15 cats. All of them are spayed or neutered. 

These cats are not a problem, but my next door neighbor's cats are. Since my cats are neutered, they USUALLY stay home. I can open my door any time day or night and find all my cats (there are only 4 now, thank goodness). But my neighbor doesn't neuter his cats. Besides eating my cats' food, they come over here and pick fights with my cats in the middle of the night. 

So I got a Hav-a-hart trap. Its a big pain because I have to lock my cats up in the garage for the night so I don't catch them in the trap, but if those darned un-neutered neighbor cats get caught in my trap, they're going to the vet for an operation!


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## Laura (Oct 5, 2012)

there is also special fencing that could be used in neighborhood settings. It goes along the top of the fence to keep your cats in your yard. safecatfence i think it is called. or here is one: 
http://www.catfence.com/ if you also supply a litter box for the loose cats, ferals etc.. they May be less apt to go the the neighbors..
Coffee grounds are a good thing to try as a repellent. They are good for the soil, free at most coffee shops and wont hurt anything. 
If you see unwanterd cats in your yard.. you can spray them with a hose.. its wet, but harmless and a Negative Reinforcement. Make sure you aren't leaving food out for them, they should go elsewhere.


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## shellysmom (Oct 5, 2012)

kurmaraja12 said:


> I really like everyone's ideas, so what I will do is go say hi and tell them that their cats have had kittens, and then offer to bring the adults to a low cost n/s place as to not increase the population. And possibly give the kittens to a rescue (IM poor and I don't know if I could pay for all the kittens to be fixed as well) And I will give them the information on such a place and a rescue also, in case they want to do it themselves.



Here's a link to some free/low cost s-n in Illinois: www.spayillinois.org/


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## Redstrike (Oct 5, 2012)

EricIvins said:


> Feral Cats have no place outside of a household. Same thing goes for a Dog, or any other animal. It has nothing to do with who moved in where. They don't belong. As far as I'm concerned, a responsible "Pet" owner would keep their animals indoors and not let them roam to breed disease and contribute to over whelming Feral populations........



Agreed. Feral cats are responsible for billions of bird deaths every year, it's a serious conservation problem. There is a classic story of a lighthouse keeper that brought his cat along while he tended the lighthouse. The single cat was responsible for extipating a sparrow that only occured on the island.

http://www.abcbirds.org/newsandreports/releases/101208.html


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## Maggie Cummings (Oct 5, 2012)

Outside cats generally live 6 to 7 years where inside cats live upwards of 20 years.
I am just your opposite Jacqui...I don't believe in you letting your cats walk on my clean cat or s*** in my flower beds where tomorrow I will be weeding and come across that poop. If you want an outside cat you should make sure it's doesn't bother anybody in the neighbourhood. I appreciate what you are doing for the cats, but by the same token it's not right for your cats to pester me. One neighbor has a cats that likes to walk on my deck and knock the flower pots off . Another cat sprays urine all around my house at butt level so when I am all dressed in nice clean clothes I take off my car cover and get cat pee on me from them spraying. I can smell cat pee on me when I get into town. I have 2 inside cats who have a very good life and a better one I'm sure...
I spend money that I really can't afford so I can buy bird seeds for the wild birds in my yard and many times I have been sitting on my deck when a cats comes along and catches one of my birds or I find a dead half eaten bird inn the yard in the morning. I love watching the birds and I have warned my neighbours that I have a cat trap set every night and when I catch one I don't take them to our local shelter. I take it for a long ride.


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## Jacqui (Oct 5, 2012)

maggie3fan said:


> Outside cats generally live 6 to 7 years where inside cats live upwards of 20 years.
> I am just your opposite Jacqui...I don't believe in you letting your cats walk on my clean cat or s*** in my flower beds where tomorrow I will be weeding and come across that poop. If you want an outside cat you should make sure it's doesn't bother anybody in the neighbourhood. I appreciate what you are doing for the cats, but by the same token it's not right for your cats to pester me. One neighbor has a cats that likes to walk on my deck and knock the flower pots off . Another cat sprays urine all around my house at butt level so when I am all dressed in nice clean clothes I take off my car cover and get cat pee on me from them spraying. I can smell cat pee on me when I get into town. I have 2 inside cats who have a very good life and a better one I'm sure...



Maggie, you have it wrong, none of my neighbors have complained about my cats. Actually except to follow me when walking my dogs, none of my cats have I ever spotted further then the block we live on or just across the street (still in the ditch) but even then it's an empty lot. The one exception is a female who travels between my two houses so she goes two blocks. Three folks live on my block, where we also have a park and a alfalfa field. The rest are empty lots and empty houses which have been that way for years. My house is one of those old fashioned ones with a huge yard. There are two cats which come across the park for "visits", but they belong to the person over there. Now the other two neighbors on my block have cats too and their cats come to my house and vise versa. 

Also my cats have plenty of flower beds here at home for doing their digging in or the sand along the road, they don't need to go to the neighbors for that.  I do know what you mean about the pee, it ticks me off to be sitting in my yard and have full grown men come around the city hall to pee. Or just a couple of weeks ago I watched a man come behind the brand new bathhouse our village has just built to do his peeing. Twenty feet at most and he could have been inside using the proper bathroom. Or the out of town person who brings their shepherds with them to get the mail and they urinate on my truck and tomato plants.


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## Terry Allan Hall (Oct 5, 2012)

kurmaraja12 said:


> Ok everyone, i need your opinion on something...
> 
> We recently moved into the suburbs near St. Louis. Our new house is in a nice, newer subdivision and it's full of families with small children. Our next door neighbors have a lovely backyard full of plants and trees and such. Well, shortly after we moved in I noticed that they had an outdoor cat... or two...ok well more like 4! They usually stay in their yard and will sit on the neighbor's deck. I'm fine with outdoor cats, as long as people have them spayed and neutered as to not allow overpopulation. They do not bother us, but they do come up on our deck and walk around and poo in our yard. However they are not aggressive and run away if we make an approach. None of them wear collars and all of them are somewhat slim.
> 
> ...



I think talking w/ them 1st is a good idea...hopefully, that'll be productive.

If not, call animal control, because feral cats can be a SERIOUS problem, besides overpopulation. They can (and often do carry diseases, from feline distemper, feline leukemia up to rabies,. And they hunt native songbirds, and compete with other native creatures.


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## CharlieM (Oct 5, 2012)

Redstrike said:


> EricIvins said:
> 
> 
> > Feral Cats have no place outside of a household. Same thing goes for a Dog, or any other animal. It has nothing to do with who moved in where. They don't belong. As far as I'm concerned, a responsible "Pet" owner would keep their animals indoors and not let them roam to breed disease and contribute to over whelming Feral populations........
> ...




I also agree and worry about our native birds. I am a bird person and hate the damage cats can cause.


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## kurmaraja12 (Oct 5, 2012)

Well I.stopped over there today with some contacts for cheap S/N and rescues for my neighbor. I knocked and rang the doorbell but no one answered.I noticed their garbage can was still outside (garbage day was yesterday) so I thought no one was home but I tried anyways. Later I saw a car that I recognized from a couple weeks ago. It is my educated theory that a elderly woman lives there and that the person who stops by is her daughter and she brings her kids over too. It was pouring out today and my boyfriend thought I'd look weird if I came over there in the middle of a storm. Lol. So I will try again tomorrow or whenever I see the car next.


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## Terry Allan Hall (Oct 5, 2012)

Out here in the country, the law allows us to shoot any feral that comes onto our property, but what I do is ask around, to determine who's pet belongs to whom...the ones that are ownerless get one of two options: (A) If friendly, I try to find them homes, in the mean time, I feed 'em and clean 'em up, for Maximum Adoptability, or (B) if utterly wild, I humanely dispatch them w/ my 30.06.

Had a neighbor who refused to control her two pit-bull-type dogs, and I spoke with her about them...she assured me that they were harmless. When I saw them, a month or so later, tear a cocker puppy apart (literally) that was the pet of a child down the street, in the child's back yard, right in front of her, I shot both and put them on the owner's door-step, leaving a note, explaining all pertinent details. The bullies' owner called the Sheriff's office, a couple of sheriffs came out, spoke w/ her, to me, to the child, and to the child's parents, and then arrested the dog's owner for 2 counts of harboring a dangerous animal. 

It's a sad thing when irresponsible pet owners put folks like myself in a position where we have to do the responsible thing.


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## bigred (Oct 5, 2012)

Sounds like everyone has his or her own opinion, I have 2 cats and my Mom next door to me has 1. So I guess you could say I have 3 black cats. My cats are normal cats and they lay on the neighbors cars, fight with other cats, eat birds, eat mice and none of this bothers me. I guess you have several choices to choose from, trap them, feed them, shoot them and whatever you choose to do is what you choose to do. If my cats come up missing I would go check the pound for black cats and bring them back home. If they were not at the pound then I wouldnt have that cat anymore. Only one of the cats comes in the house and the other 2 are just cats that we started feeding. My cats are great cats and I do enjoy them. I would be careful how you handle the neighbor thing, you might be living next to them for years


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## Pokeymeg (Oct 5, 2012)

I would definitely check with the neighbors first...

In my neighborhood we have the 'cat connection'. They trap feral cats, treat for Feline HIV, spay/nueter, rabies, then try to find a home for the young ones. The older ones, and kittens if there's no shelter room, get their left ear clipped and are released back where they came from. It's a GREAT program. Neighbors get to keep the cats (Yes, my neighbors were feeding the feral cats and creating a colony), they don't spread (as much) disease, can't breed, and therefore will dwindle in numbers (for you bird folks ;-) ) 

We have a feral cat from this colony (his mom abandoned his as an 8 week old kitten in our yard) that has adopted us and has a hut on our back deck. We feed him, he keeps the mouse population down, and occasionally terrorizes birds to bring us a head and show his love. Awwwwww

Maybe your area has a program like this you could find? Our cat-breeding neighbor agreed when they realized they could keep the cats, and it was helping the neighborhood.


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## CharlieM (Oct 5, 2012)

CharlieM said:


> Redstrike said:
> 
> 
> > EricIvins said:
> ...


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## EricIvins (Oct 5, 2012)

I find the attitude about Cats nonchalantly killing off Birds and other natural Wildlife to be sickening.........How do you justify that logic?


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## BowandWalter (Oct 7, 2012)

My cat is an island cat, he's inside/outside and is 16 years old. He was neutered young and knows the property lines as well as the dogs. There's no problem with him being outside, he only was friendly to one neighbor (and went to visit her daily before she was carted off to the old folks home), who has since moved, and the others he avoids on sight. He also learned as a kitten that birds are not prey, I've raised many chicks and abandoned hatchlings and he's never shown any interest, he does however capture the big shore rats that roam the island.

Our "crazy" neighbors had a feral female have kittens under their porch, for some hair brained reason they let her raise all of her kittens, out of 6 or 7, 3 survived. All of them are wild, and were only spayed and neutered after everyone on the island complained. They regularly come and jump my cat, luckily he's large, wiry, and fully capable of knocking sense into them.

We had to call the police 8 or 9 years ago because they tried to report Cream as being a wild unneutered tom. After a fair bit of a kerfuffle it was realized that Cream is a lovely well behaved cat, whereas theirs are complete hellions. My cat actually has a restraining order against them, they aren't allowed close to him, it was what was suggested by the police.

If the neighbors end up being completely insane you might want to see if you can get an order against the cats being in your yard.


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## dmmj (Oct 8, 2012)

So I think I am a big an animal lover as anyone, but I think feeding stray cats is wrong. It seems like the nice thing to do on the surface, but stray outdoor cats live shorter lives, usually in bad conditions. Would those who think it ok, be fine with packs of dogs roaming the streets, having puppies and terrorizing the neighborhood? I am no tin favor of shooting them since I would hate to accidentally shoot someone's pet who escaped, no pet owner is perfect and escapes can happen even to the best of us, this irresponsible owner thing is a weak argument at best. I am afraid those who feed the strays, would not like me as a neighbor.


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## terryo (Oct 8, 2012)

I don't have any cats, and I don't want any. Unfortunately there are people who dump cats in neighborhoods that they feel will take care of the animals that they don't want any more. We have called animal control many times and set out traps to catch and neuter the strays. My neighbors and I chip in to do this. I think it's a shame that people just dump off their responsibility hoping that someone...like me....will feel sorry and feed them. Besides catching and fixing them, and leaving my garage open for them in the Winter, I don't know what else to do. They sit outside crying for food, and I would never NOT feed them. I have many bird feeders all around my yard, and never had a problem with the cats killing the birds, as my dogs are back there most of the day in the Summer. We also put out dried corn for the Squirrels. I could never let an animal go hungry, even one that's a pest at times.


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## Neal (Oct 8, 2012)

dmmj said:


> ... no pet owner is perfect and escapes can happen even to the best of us, this irresponsible owner thing is a weak argument at best.



I disagree, it's a pretty good argument. I would add that ID'ing the animal by collar and ID tag would fall under responsible pet ownership in my opinion. This would decrease the chance that someone's pet would accidentally be relocated or taken to a shelter.


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## Kerryann (Oct 9, 2012)

The feral kids were in my yard yesterday and caused me drama. I posted in the pretend chat thread the details but I stand by my thought about not letting your responsibilities become other people's problems.


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## Terry Allan Hall (Oct 9, 2012)

Kerryann said:


> The feral kids were in my yard yesterday and caused me drama. I posted in the pretend chat thread the details but I stand by my thought about not letting your responsibilities become other people's problems.



Agreed...While it takes a village to raise a child, most of the responsibility must rest on the parent's shoulders, not on the village, itself.


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## Kapidolo Farms (Feb 27, 2013)

Well I know up front that referring to scientific evidence with statistics will kill so much of the joy in babbling about something, so, I'll do my best to speak 'pop culture idioms'.

Domestic/house cats become feral as they leave the door of your house/home. The distinction of how they are treated or maintained inside the house/home does not dictate how the cat behaves outside the home. Once outside the predator kicks in, even grossly obese cats are this way.

Outdoor time that any cat has, has lead to a dramatic decline in songbirds, and many herps. How could we possible know this? Some researchers at Cornell have put small cameras on cats of varying degrees of domestication from those that get outside, eat some grass and tinkle, to full blown wild domestic cats. Even spayed and neutered participate in the killing of small wild animals, and most are not even consumed, but played with or killed and left in place.

That a cat person (someone who professes to love cats), I'd call myself one, would let their cat outside with cars, people who enjoy harming pets, and disease, I'd say you are represent a passive cat owner, vet costs beside. 

That cats rip each other up outside further seems to me evidence that some 'cat people' are passive cat people at best. If you feel your cat needs outside time, and I agree with that, make a cattery, or use of a balcony for their outside time suffices. I have a bird feeder (cat TV) for my cat too.

My father is a full time Motorhome person, he has cats, they have an outside apartment for when they are not in travel mode.

That cats "need" outside time is no excuse for all the atrocities that befall cats and what they prey on. How many dead cats alongside the road do you need to see??

How many cats with open sores from their outside time, or those seen in the park etc. do you need to see??

All those escaped tortoises, that is just plain bad husbandry. It happens to many, and a few times me too, it was/is bad husbandry. When animals escape at zoos, people get fired - why (?) professional incompetence. 

Oh yeah, cats are cute!

Will


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## lisa127 (Feb 27, 2013)

terryo said:


> Why don't you take one of her kittens (ask her first, of course) instead of getting one from a breeder. It would be one less cat for you to worry about outside. I'm afraid you'd hate me too. I feed everything, all the neighborhood cats, squirrels, birds. My neighbor and I try to catch some and chip in to have them spayed, but they are all over. It's very sad with Winter coming so I leave my garage open just a bit for any to come in out of the cold.



I second this!!!!

OP, you yourself said there are so many homeless cats in shelters. So why not give a homeless kitten a home, instead of buying one?


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## kathyth (Feb 27, 2013)

18 months ago, I had my first experience with ferel cats. There were just 3 that I could identify. The nice lady next door put water out for them.
When I saw kittens that were about 3 weeks old, it hit me. I had to interfere with the breeding or there would be a zillion cats.
I went to the ASPCA and had a conversation with the, they said that the problem is overwhelming, everywhere. There are a huge excess of tamed kittens that are euthanized. Who would take a wild cat or kitten.
I researched and researched.
I found a place called FixNation. They do the trap, neuter and release. It broke my heart that I would have to release them.
I did exactly what they said. I took 3 traps. They trained me in the proper use of them.
I gave letters to all neighbors telling the, what I planned to do and asked, that anyone who objected, please come and talk to me. People drove by and gave me a thumbs up.
I easily trapped each cat and kitten, over a weeks period, held them the night; brought them in in the morning and held them the first night, post op, to recover.
Each cat was fixed, had its ears cleaned, de fleaed and ear tipped to identify it as a fixed feral.
I gave each cat and kitten water and food the next morning and released them.
I see them and they look great.
There life may be harder than it should be but they seem fine and are not having babies!


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## Thalatte (Feb 27, 2013)

Neal said:


> I disagree, it's a pretty good argument. I would add that ID'ing the animal by collar and ID tag would fall under responsible pet ownership in my opinion. This would decrease the chance that someone's pet would accidentally be relocated or taken to a shelter.



Let me start off by saying I have a calico cat and I tried to keep her inside but she hated it and wanted out. So I made sure she had every shot and vaccination that she could get and then I put collar and tags on her only to find her coming home without a collar (it was a breakaway cat collar). So I replaced it. After 17 collars and tags were lost (over $200 dollars) I got her a regular collar and the next morning found her caught in a tree choking. 
So needless to say she doesn't have a collar and never will while outside. I don't have the money to replace collars non stop and I refuse to have her health risked just so people know she is mine.

Most of the time cats can't wear collars and to expect the owners to keep one on them isn't realistic. 

I agree that feral cats should be spayed and neutered however it is t anyone's place to demand that a neighbor change how they care for a pet when your the one that moved in. There are other ways besides carting animals off to keep them out of your yard. Now if the cat is aggressive talk to the owners to see if they will fix it. If dying or obviously diseased then they should be humanely trapped and taken to a vet.


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## african cake queen (Feb 27, 2013)

hi, i own a feral indoor monster cat.(diesel) got him at 3 days old. never had a cat like this one. i call him the village swamp cat. hes is nice but can turn on a dime. found two beagle dogs using him as a squeaky toy. anyway here in ct. i think they catch , spay and bring them back to where they were. if you get caught feed ing a feral cat here, the town says you own it.


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## RedfootsRule (Feb 27, 2013)

Feral cats are another ripple effect. Do you know where it starts? Irresponsibility. There is only one culprit at play here; its called your own irresponsibility. The refusal to ID your pet because you are to cheap to dish out the money (don't let the cat outside then! If its miserable inside, then spend that money on a cat run!). The refusal to spay your pet because you are either to lazy, or don't want to spend the $20 at a spay and neuter clinic. The refusal to spend the money on a cat run, and instead letting your cat outside because you believe it's miserable inside.
Feral cats are not the blame for feral cats. Their owners are. You have NO right to hurt or abuse that animal in any way. It's not the feral animals fault that it is in the situation that it is. If you care about them, you trap them, spay them, and release or tame them out and then adopt them. Otherwise? Its none of your business. Doesn't matter if you just moved there and they are bothering you. (They were there first! Should've thought about that before you moved in!)

Unfortunately, there is an overwhelming amount of irresponsibility in this world. Is it fair that WE have to deal with the irresponsibility of others? Nope. But sadly, you won't find much in this world that IS fair. As a citizen, I believe it is everybody's job to help out with the feral animal situation as much as they can. That means TNR (trap, neuter, release). That also means taking in kittens, taming them, and adopting them out. I myself have done this close to 100 times, and its not that hard. That also means feeding and supply water and a shelter for any feral cats on your property. Whether you created the problem or not...If you think you have the right to complain about the situation, then you better be doing something to fix it. Otherwise, shut your mouth and mind your own business.

Perhaps you think you should capture them and take them to the ASPCA or humane society. At that point, please just spare the cat and get a gun. Because thats exactly what your doing. Taking a feral animal to them is as good as death. They have a 24-hour Hold period. Then they die. Not even 1/100 of these animals are rescued....So, if you take them to the humane society, please don't believe you just did anything but murder.

Buying from a breeder is just contributing to the situation. I have an issue with all those backyard breeders out there breeding cats or dogs. Now, those that breed the high show quality dogs/cats that cost an upwards of several thousand dollars...Thats a little more understandable. They are at least contributing to persevering the quality of the dogs/cats. But these backyard breeders that continue to uphold the "mangy-mutt" type dogs and cats, of no quality what-so-ever, and just try to sell them...Your the main contributor. People hold much more value for an animal they just spent $2000 on then an animal they just picked up for $10. The $10 pet is the ultimate throw-away pet. Your kids become tired of it, they kick it out the door.

Don't let your cats outside. If you do, keep them in a cat run with an ID tag in-case of escapes. Spay ALL dogs and cats, and TNR any feral dogs and cats within your vicinity. Feed them and keep them alive, to at least give them some sort of life.

Personally, I believe you should have to apply for a no-cost pet permit for any dog or cat. Make this permit difficult to achieve, but not to difficult. But difficult enough to the point that the christmas kitten isn't worth the hassle.

Furthermore, I might mention, if a large enough amount of people did TNR, and people could no longer be able to purchase throw-away pets so easily (permits needed), the feral situation would make a rapid decline within a decade or two. But no, this won't even happen. Because we have all of those out there, several on this very thread, that think they should sit on their couch and complain about the situation, yet do nothing about it; and at the same time, complain about the irresponsibility of other pet owners, while meanwhile being blissfully unaware of their own irresponsibility of not doing anything to help.

The message is: if you want to complain about the situation, get off the computer and do something to help. Otherwise, you don't get to complain.


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## kurmaraja12 (Feb 27, 2013)

RedfootsRule said:


> Feral cats are another ripple effect. Do you know where it starts? Irresponsibility. There is only one culprit at play here; its called your own irresponsibility. The refusal to ID your pet because you are to cheap to dish out the money (don't let the cat outside then! If its miserable inside, then spend that money on a cat run!). The refusal to spay your pet because you are either to lazy, or don't want to spend the $20 at a spay and neuter clinic. The refusal to spend the money on a cat run, and instead letting your cat outside because you believe it's miserable inside.
> Feral cats are not the blame for feral cats. Their owners are. You have NO right to hurt or abuse that animal in any way. It's not the feral animals fault that it is in the situation that it is. If you care about them, you trap them, spay them, and release or tame them out and then adopt them. Otherwise? Its none of your business. Doesn't matter if you just moved there and they are bothering you. (They were there first! Should've thought about that before you moved in!)
> 
> Unfortunately, there is an overwhelming amount of irresponsibility in this world. Is it fair that WE have to deal with the irresponsibility of others? Nope. But sadly, you won't find much in this world that IS fair. As a citizen, I believe it is everybody's job to help out with the feral animal situation as much as they can. That means TNR (trap, neuter, release). That also means taking in kittens, taming them, and adopting them out. I myself have done this close to 100 times, and its not that hard. That also means feeding and supply water and a shelter for any feral cats on your property. Whether you created the problem or not...If you think you have the right to complain about the situation, then you better be doing something to fix it. Otherwise, shut your mouth and mind your own business.
> ...




In other news, I never got to talk to the own because she died right before we moved in. The kittens disappeared, I don't know if they died or moved on. The cats have disappeared because no one has been living in the house for months. The end.

And you know what? I did buy a "designer cat". She was 600 dollars. And I don't care what anyone thinks because I love her. I bought her based on the breed's personality and looks. No doubt the same way other people pick a breed of tortoise to keep.


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## bigred (Feb 27, 2013)

kurmaraja12 said:


> RedfootsRule said:
> 
> 
> > Feral cats are another ripple effect. Do you know where it starts? Irresponsibility. There is only one culprit at play here; its called your own irresponsibility. The refusal to ID your pet because you are to cheap to dish out the money (don't let the cat outside then! If its miserable inside, then spend that money on a cat run!). The refusal to spay your pet because you are either to lazy, or don't want to spend the $20 at a spay and neuter clinic. The refusal to spend the money on a cat run, and instead letting your cat outside because you believe it's miserable inside.
> ...



Im glad you got the cat you wanted, do what you want. I think you should post a pic of it just to put a good end to this. Maybe even of her eating a bird or mouse like they were meant to do


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