# Check your pens after heavy rains



## cdmay (Aug 29, 2016)

Heavy rains that occur early in the morning can have a profound effect on hatchling turtles that are in their nest chambers waiting for an environmental cue to make a break into the real world. The thought is that the rain will dampen the scent trail of juicy little turtles and will also help them avoid desiccation from dry weather. Over the years I have found emerged neonates of numerous native species after a night of soaking rain and this even includes sea turtles. So having tortoises in one's yard or garden that are of breeding potential it pays to be observant after a night of rain. 

Yesterday (Sunday) it rained like crazy here in south Florida in the early hours of the day. While out in the yard inspecting things yesterday morning I was not too surprised to find a newly hatched tortoise sitting right out in the open. If there is one, the likelihood of more is pretty good. I think it took me less than ten minutes to find another hatchling hiding under a bunch of leaves not ten feet from the first. I spent the next two hours scouring every inch of my garden for more hatchlings but no more were found. 

Once again today it had rained quite heavily during the night and early morning. I had no real expectations of finding any other emerged hatchling tortoises but still, why not take a look? I step into the pen containing my group of Arizona raised cherry-heads and immediately spot a hatchling tucked up against the fence. I run inside to get the camera for an_ in situ_ photo. And then I see more... 

_*What the...?*_ There is 3 of them!







Ground level shot. The lens is fogged from the humidity.







I wiped the lens down and then shot this image...





Three neonates all in a row, how cool! 
But then there was yet another little guy sitting against a Ficus tree in the pen. FOUR!

Here are the four sitting on top of one of the hides immediately after their discovery. In my experience hatchlings that emerge on their own in the yard are extremely shy and retiring unlike the generally fearless ones that hatch in the incubator.





That was an exhilarating find for a wet Monday morning. Then I decided to really check the entire pen, including inside the wooden shelters. Believe it or not FOUR more hatchlings!
Here they are in my kitchen sink...






One thing you notice about 'wild' hatchlings is that every little crease and wrinkle of their shell provides a lodging place for dirt and debris which no doubt helps them disappear into their environment.






I told you they are shy.

Plastron variations. There are two females and one male in this group and one of the females (Betty) produces hatchlings with a vibrant sunset orange plastron color.






I'm pretty sure we have two separate clutches represented here. One from Betty and one from Velma. While digging around the pen I also found two eggs that look to be full term along with the remains of at least two other eggs. Will have to wait and see what comes of them.
Closer look at the variation.
The center hatchling is a Velma baby while the two orange kids on either side are Betty's.





Guess what I'll be doing early tomorrow morning?
Carl


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## Kapidolo Farms (Aug 29, 2016)

I hate when that happens! NOT. Wonderful to see.


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## wellington (Aug 29, 2016)

Nothing better to find in ones yard.


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## cmacusa3 (Aug 29, 2016)

Very cool!! Congrats


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## Tidgy's Dad (Aug 29, 2016)

How wonderful!
And I love that you can tell the mother from the colour of the babies.


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## Gillian M (Aug 29, 2016)

cdmay said:


> Heavy rains that occur early in the morning can have a profound effect on hatchling turtles that are in their nest chambers waiting for an environmental cue to make a break into the real world. The thought is that the rain will dampen the scent trail of juicy little turtles and will also help them avoid desiccation from dry weather. Over the years I have found emerged neonates of numerous native species after a night of soaking rain and this even includes sea turtles. So having tortoises in one's yard or garden that are of breeding potential it pays to be observant after a night of rain.
> 
> Yesterday (Sunday) it rained like crazy here in south Florida in the early hours of the day. While out in the yard inspecting things yesterday morning I was not too surprised to find a newly hatched tortoise sitting right out in the open. If there is one, the likelihood of more is pretty good. I think it took me less than ten minutes to find another hatchling hiding under a bunch of leaves not ten feet from the first. I spent the next two hours scouring every inch of my garden for more hatchlings but no more were found.
> 
> ...


What a lovely group!


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## Marinated mamma (Aug 29, 2016)

What a bunch of beautys


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## Millerlite (Aug 29, 2016)

See everyone. Not all Mondays are bad lol. Great little guys. Will be great to watch them grow. They are def. Lookers. And you know they are fighters and strong

Kyle


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## Anyfoot (Aug 30, 2016)

Now that is an exciting day. Something I'll never be able to experience, but reading this was like being there. 
Do you think/know if they start rising to the surface whilst the egg sack is being absorbed or do they absorb the sack then rise to the surface. I would imagine it's a lengthy process digging out.


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## ZEROPILOT (Aug 30, 2016)

What a great find!!
Our weather has produced a lot of mating, but no more eggs for my group.


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## Tom (Aug 30, 2016)

Humidity fogged up the lens? Speak English man. I can't understand what you are trying to say there. I think I remember something about this "humidity" you speak of from my science classes in school. 

Nice babies.

I hadn't heard the info about covering the scent trails, but that makes sense. I heard they hatch in the rain because the water clogs all the airspaces in the dirt that used to allow enough oxygen to get to the nest, and that lack of oxygen is what prompts them to finally dig up and out. Seems like both answers are plausible and both answers would work together. Then I love it when people ask, "Who soaks them in the wild"?

Thanks for the super cool pics Carl!


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## ZEROPILOT (Aug 30, 2016)

I'm very envious


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## cdmay (Aug 30, 2016)

_"I hadn't heard the info about covering the scent trails, but that makes sense. I heard they hatch in the rain because the water clogs all the airspaces in the dirt that used to allow enough oxygen to get to the nest, and that lack of oxygen is what prompts them to finally dig up and out. Seems like both answers are plausible and both answers would work together."_

Tom, if you've ever been on hand for a sea turtle nest excavation after the eggs have hatched you'll know about scent trails. The local sea turtle watch folks here where I work will dig up nests after the bulk of the hatchlings have exited the nest chamber. Usually a day or so later. One thing that strikes you right away is the strong organic odor of egg material, yolk sacs, unhatched/infertile eggs and whatever else was in there. It's not unpleasant at all, but it's noticeable to a human from several feet away. Undoubtedly the neonates carry these odors with them to the sea.
I'm sure that there is a similar (although much less apparent to a human) odor that exists with turtles and tortoises that predators such as raccoons, skunks, possum and the like would pick up on immediately. 
I first read about scent trails a number of years ago regarding female boa constrictors giving birth at the onset of rains. Boa breeders are aware of the odor of a new batch of slimy little boas (_boalings?_) along with all that goes with the birthing process. The conclusion of that study was that rains would help free the neonate boas from the birthing material and would also help disperse whatever smells were associated with them.

As you mentioned though, I'm sure there are numerous factors that contribute to the pulse of a clutch of hatchlings suddenly 'deciding' it's time to go.

One further thing...if you look at the plastrons of the 10 neonate red-footed tortoises I found on Sunday and Monday, all of them had completely absorbed their yolk sacs and the yolk sac membrane had already peeled off most of them. That means they've been sitting down in the nest chambers for some time. Waiting.


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## Jodie (Aug 30, 2016)

Amazing. Thanks for sharing!


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## Speedy-1 (Aug 30, 2016)

*Very cool ! What great find !*


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## Tom (Aug 30, 2016)

cdmay said:


> _"I hadn't heard the info about covering the scent trails, but that makes sense. I heard they hatch in the rain because the water clogs all the airspaces in the dirt that used to allow enough oxygen to get to the nest, and that lack of oxygen is what prompts them to finally dig up and out. Seems like both answers are plausible and both answers would work together."_
> 
> Tom, if you've ever been on hand for a sea turtle nest excavation after the eggs have hatched you'll know about scent trails. The local sea turtle watch folks here where I work will dig up nests after the bulk of the hatchlings have exited the nest chamber. Usually a day or so later. One thing that strikes you right away is the strong organic odor of egg material, yolk sacs, unhatched/infertile eggs and whatever else was in there. It's not unpleasant at all, but it's noticeable to a human from several feet away. Undoubtedly the neonates carry these odors with them to the sea.
> I'm sure that there is a similar (although much less apparent to a human) odor that exists with turtles and tortoises that predators such as raccoons, skunks, possum and the like would pick up on immediately.
> ...



Great info Carl. Thank you. I used to read all of Archie Carr's book years ago, but I've never seen the arribada in person. Some day...


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## mproko (Aug 30, 2016)

I thoroughly enjoyed this read. Congrats!


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## Maro2Bear (Aug 30, 2016)

Really nice, thanks so much for sharing your experience.


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## MPRC (Aug 30, 2016)

Color me green with envy....


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## leigti (Aug 31, 2016)

This is a great thread. I can understand why the "wild" babies are so shy. They probably think they've been abducted by aliens, and examined in a Cold sterile environment. Then they are placed back in their natural environment wondering what the heck just happened.


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## John Franzwa (Aug 31, 2016)

Cute little torts!


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## Jacqui (Sep 1, 2016)

Beautiful babies and a great thread.


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## Anyfoot (Sep 2, 2016)

cdmay said:


> Heavy rains that occur early in the morning can have a profound effect on hatchling turtles that are in their nest chambers waiting for an environmental cue to make a break into the real world. The thought is that the rain will dampen the scent trail of juicy little turtles and will also help them avoid desiccation from dry weather. Over the years I have found emerged neonates of numerous native species after a night of soaking rain and this even includes sea turtles. So having tortoises in one's yard or garden that are of breeding potential it pays to be observant after a night of rain.
> 
> Yesterday (Sunday) it rained like crazy here in south Florida in the early hours of the day. While out in the yard inspecting things yesterday morning I was not too surprised to find a newly hatched tortoise sitting right out in the open. If there is one, the likelihood of more is pretty good. I think it took me less than ten minutes to find another hatchling hiding under a bunch of leaves not ten feet from the first. I spent the next two hours scouring every inch of my garden for more hatchlings but no more were found.
> 
> ...


@cdmay. Did these hatchlings seem weeker, stronger or the same compared to artificially incubated torts?


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## cdmay (Sep 3, 2016)

Anyfoot said:


> @cdmay. Did these hatchlings seem weeker, stronger or the same compared to artificially incubated torts?



I'd say typical. They are still shy but otherwise kicking butt. Very healthy.


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## Anyfoot (Sep 3, 2016)

cdmay said:


> I'd say typical. They are still shy but otherwise kicking butt. Very healthy.


 If it hadn't have rained, let's say for another 3 days or so, do you think they would have held on for a while longer underground.


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## cdmay (Sep 3, 2016)

Anyfoot said:


> If it hadn't have rained, let's say for another 3 days or so, do you think they would have held on for a while longer underground.



Good question. But I don't know.


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## Anyfoot (Sep 3, 2016)

cdmay said:


> Good question. But I don't know.


Makes me wonder how long they can stop under the ground. I know some have said when they hatch out of the ground they seem to be weaker. I assumed this was because of the ascend to surface, but is it? Could it be they have sat underground waiting for rain to come, whilst waiting yolk and fat reserves are used up to the point even if rains don't come they have to rise to the surface or face starvation. Could it be that the minor pyramided torts in the wild were forced to rise without rain(to dry a start). Obviously it's moist whilst under the ground. 
If a tort takes let say 7 days to absorb the yolk and it has let's say a further 14 days before it reaches the critical starvation stage there for it could have been sat under the ground for 3 weeks, as long as they get rain anytime in the l last 2 weeks they are good to rise. Maybe even longer, would the eggshell be a source of food underground. 
I wonder how long the actual ascend takes. 
Just thoughts.


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