# Treated Plywood ..use or not use?



## BrinnANDTorts (Nov 6, 2011)

I am started the project of a new tortoise enclosure and I have a hatchling Sulcata and about to have a hatchling Gpp leopard and I bought treated plywood to build the enclosure with because i knew it needed to be water resistant and such because its going to be humid in my enclosure. very very very very humid with a little tortoise pond. 
I am having problems though because people are telling me to now use treated plywood because its toxic. I am putting sealant on it though, two coats and can put another coat of exterior paint over that.. this is the sealant I was going to use.





any thoughts? opinions? real life situations with tortoise enclosures made of treated plywood? 
Just trying to find the best way to go from here since I just bought 60 or so dollars of treated plywood that I don't want to just be a waste 
know though that if no definitive, safe solution is presented I will scrap the treated plywood before risking my tortoise.


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## lynnedit (Nov 6, 2011)

I know people use treated wood for outside enclosures. Treated wood is safer these days than it used to be and OK to use for tort enclosures.
I am not familiar with 'treated' plywood, but I have seen plenty of experienced keepers use 'exterior' or 'marine grade' plywood (is that the same as treated?).
And as you point out, you will be sealing the enclosure. As long as you let the sealing product 'off gas' for several days (or until any odor has been gone for a few days), then you should be fine.
Others may chime in too.


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## BrinnANDTorts (Nov 6, 2011)

lynnedit said:


> I know people use treated wood for outside enclosure. Treated wood is safer these days than it used to be and OK to use for tort enclosures.
> I am not familiar with 'treated' plywood, but I have seen plenty of experienced keepers use 'exterior' or 'marine grade' plywood (is that the same as treated?).
> And as you point out, you will be sealing the enclosure. As long as you let the sealing product 'off gas' for several days (or until any odor has been gone for a few days), then you should be fine.
> Others may chime in too.



thats pretty much what I read online too 
that they don't use such toxic chemicals in treated wood these days as they use to but hearing it from someone else that has also known someone to use treated wood and be just fine is very reassuring thank u!  and I will be sure to air out the enclosure nice and good, good tip


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## lynnedit (Nov 6, 2011)

Be sure to post pics when it is up and running!


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## BrinnANDTorts (Nov 6, 2011)

lynnedit said:


> Be sure to post pics when it is up and running!



There will be a whole thread with a ton, ton, ton of pictures and the process and final product with happy tortoise in it by the weekend lol 
I am very very very excited! 
I am going to think of a catchy title to call the thread so that tons of people look lol
something along the lines of tortoise paradise  or at least i'm hoping thats what it ends up being.


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## ascott (Nov 6, 2011)

"Hazards

Wood industrially pressure-treated with approved preservative products pose a limited risk to the public, but should be disposed of properly. On December 31, 2003, the US wood treatment industry stopped treating residential lumber with arsenic and chromium (chromated copper arsenate, or CCA). This was a voluntary agreement with the United States Environmental Protection Agency. CCA was *replaced by copper based pesticides*, with exceptions for certain industrial uses.[2] Industrial wood preservation chemicals are generally not available directly to the public and may require special approval to import or purchase depending on the product and the jurisdiction where being used. In most countries, industrial wood preservation operations are notifiable industrial activities that require licensing from relevant regulatory authorities such as EPA or equivalent. Reporting and licensing conditions vary widely depending on the particular chemicals used and the country of use.
Although* pesticides are used to treat lumber*, preserving lumber protects natural resources (in the short term) by enabling wood products to last longer. Previous poor practices in industry have left legacies of contaminated ground and water around wood treatment sites in some cases. However, under currently approved industry practices and regulatory controls such as implemented in Europe, North America, Australia, New Zealand, Japan and elsewhere, environmental impact of these operations *should be minimal.*
Wood treated with modern preservatives is generally safe to handle given appropriate handling precautions and personal protection measures. However, treated wood may present certain hazards in some circumstances such as during combustion or where loose wood dust particles or other fine toxic residues are generated or where treated wood comes into direct contact with *food and agriculture.*
Preservatives containing copper in the form of very small particles have recently been introduced to the market, usually with "micronized" or "micro" trade names and designations such as MCQ or MCA. While the manufacturers represent that these products are safe and EPA has registered these products, some groups have expressed concerns regarding exposure to engineered sub-micron and nano-sized copper particles. These concerns have led to a debate among advocacy groups and governments on whether special regulation of nanotechnology is warranted. "


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## GBtortoises (Nov 7, 2011)

Treated plywood is perfectly safe to use with tortoises or any animal that is not going to be chewing on it. As a former contractor and long time animal keeper I can tell you that there are million myths associated with the use of pressure treated woods. As stated in Angela's post above, the older preservative ingredients used could under incorrect use be harmful. The latter formula is fine, again as long as it's not being ingested.

My outdoor enclosures, all made of 3/4" pressure treated plywood, have been constructed of material from both formulas. the majority of the enclosures were built in the late 80's to early 90's so most of the old formula. A few of my more recently constructe enclosures of of the new formula. I have seen no difference whatsoever in terms of negative effects on the tortoises, leaching of the product out of the wood or absolutely anything else.

Indoor enclosures really don't need to be made of pressure treated wood to withstand moisture. Inside a CDX or AC grade plywood can be used and painted with a good quality alkyd enamel latex paint. The durability of the finish will repel moisture, allow for easy cleaning and last for many years. My indoor enclosures are constructed of 3/4" CDX plywood and primed and then painted with two coats of a white alkyd enamel latex paint. Some that have been in service for about 20 years have only needed to be re-painted once since the beginning of their use.


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## ascott (Nov 7, 2011)

I will agree to disagree on this issue. I still stand firm in advising against using treated wood when housing an animal of any kind. There are so many other materials available that do not go through the chemical treatment of the wood you are using. Again, tortoise have a tremendous life span (if cared for properly) that there is no way to know the true affect these chemicals will have on their entire life....20 years is but a drop in the bucket so to speak....again, there are so many other options to use that would avoid this risk entirely.....of course this is IMHO.


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## BrinnANDTorts (Nov 7, 2011)

Thank you for all the advice !  I will make sure to take every precaution to make sure that no animal is poisoned! 
I will be posting a thread soon of my finished enclosure I am very excited! lol


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## ripper7777777 (Nov 8, 2011)

GBtortoises is dead on, and ascott also is right, there are a lot of wood options for interior uses.

I would only bother with treated lumber if it was outside, if you already have it and you don't want to return it, don't bother. I just hate painting treated lumber.

and most concerns about treated lumber comes from people cutting it and breathing dust or kids touching the wet wood and than eating lunch, much like turtles, well the kid part not the cutting.


Oh, i posted it in your other thread, I would not use that spray paint, again GBtortoises advice is dead on. I have used Rustoleum brush on paints with excellent results in the past whenever we had long term outdoor installations. It does take a long time to cure.


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## BrinnANDTorts (Nov 8, 2011)

I've decided that I give up and am just going to put a tightly pulled plastic covering over the whole inside of the enclosure so I just don't have to worry about it. 
Hopefully if I keep it tightly pulled and smooth it won't look very bad and almost just like black paint. 
I've still hot about six years or so before I have to build a big shed outdoors for my Sulcata Gupta. I don't know how long it takes for a Gpp leopard have to get big enough to have to live outside permanently but I guess whenever that happen I will need another shed haha


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## ripper7777777 (Nov 8, 2011)

Sounds like a good plan, I have also seen the cheap linoleum tiles used for the bottom and sides.


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## BrinnANDTorts (Nov 8, 2011)

ripper7777777 said:


> Sounds like a good plan, I have also seen the cheap linoleum tiles used for the bottom and sides.



Wouldn't that make the cage like crazy heavy?


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## dmmj (Nov 8, 2011)

Plastic liner sounds like a good choice.


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## ripper7777777 (Nov 8, 2011)

BrinnANDGupta said:


> ripper7777777 said:
> 
> 
> > Sounds like a good plan, I have also seen the cheap linoleum tiles used for the bottom and sides.
> ...




Depends on the thickness of the tiles and the amount used. Personally I would just go the black plastic, but I have seen some nice enclosures made using either linoleum or linoleum tiles. When I remodeled our pop-up camper I had to check the thickness and weight to find the right tile for the flooring.


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## SteveP (Nov 9, 2011)

I would not spray that coating on the wood. I would worry it can peal off and the torts can eat it.


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## BrinnANDTorts (Nov 9, 2011)

SteveP said:


> I would not spray that coating on the wood. I would worry it can peal off and the torts can eat it.



I'll remember that when I have to start an outdoor enclosure but I have decided that I am just going to have all of in interior covered with plastic


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