# Possible Renal Failure?



## Beedee (Dec 7, 2017)

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Hi everyone,

This is going to be a long story, but basically I need help trying to workout what is wrong with my tortoise. I have been to the vets but everything they have suggested doesn't seem to be making any difference.

BACKGROUND INFO:
I have a 3 year old Hermanns tortoise, she lives inside in a tortoise table full of a mixture of coco noir and orchid bark. It has a mercury vapour lamp that is around 35 degree in the basking spot and goes down around 20 in the cooler areas. She has access to fresh water and is bathed every day (NOTE: she never drinks in the bath, and I have probably only seen her drink twice ever). Her diet is of leafy greens and commercial pellets I buy from the grocery store but I am now changing to home grown weeds from seeds I purchased from shelled warriors, and mazuri pellets. I fear this diet has done bad for her however I have a 10 year old tortoise who is perfectly healthy and has been fed the same his whole life. He has had check up at the vet and there is no doubt he is unhealthy and shows no signs of pyramiding etc.

BEHAVIOUR:
She has never been one to run around much ever since I got her. She never spent a lot of time under her heat lamp but did used to come out every know and then to warm up and eat. Lately, in the past couple of months, she will never, ever, wake up and get her self out of her hide to warm up, I have to pull her out every day and make sure she warms up. I even have a temperature gun so I ensure she gets to atlas 25 degrees every day before I let her go and hide again. She will eat very small amounts but only if I hand feed her it and won't seek out food herself.

THE PROBLEM:
YELLOW URINE. She has had blood tests at the vet and an X-ray. The blood tests show that she is anaemic and high very high levels of uric acid. The X-ray was all clear for kidney/bladder stones but did show calcium deficiency. During this 2 week period I spent going back and forward to the vet she did not eat a thing and was being force fed by the vets. She has improved in the way she is eating a small amount. Her shell does show pyramiding and her eyes look slightly sunken to me (but she is getting 10ml of water a day + the food she eats-she is 400g, as the vet advised). She also rubs her eyes sometimes and occasionally the third eyelid that appears in the corner can start to cover her eye? No idea if this is related.
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For the past 4 weeks I have been syringe feeding her twice a day, calcium and D3 liquid with water, and arkvits (contains iron and loads of other nutrients/vitamins) with water. This is keeping her hydrated and she is urinating most days but it is still yellow. The usual white patch in the liquid is yellow and the liquid part is also yellow. The vets have said the only other thing they can do is do a biopsy on her kidney however because of her size (she's only 400g) and her overall health it is very risky and has a high chance of not working or putting her to sleep for ever.

I have no idea what else to do? I think I am doing the right thing with all the vitamins and baths etc and changing her food but it doesn't seem to make any difference. Is this something that takes ages to fix? or should I of seen a bigger improvement by now? I mean right now she is sitting in the bath and going crazy because she hates it and stamping around, but in her cage she just does nothing.

I find it hard to believe it is my husbandry when I have another perfect healthy tortoise raised in the same fashion.


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## Beedee (Dec 7, 2017)

Sorry I can't seem to edit it anymore and my photos have gone. So here they are again: the first one is of my 10 year old tortoise and as u can see his shell is healthy whereas the last one shows the 3 year old who's shell is not forming normally


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## Bee62 (Dec 7, 2017)

Beedee said:


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Hello Beedee, sorry to hear that your tortoise is sick. 
Your guess that your tort has kidney problems seem very obviously to me too. 
The high level of urid acid, the yellow urine and the whole behavior of your tortoise are signs of kidney problems.
How long do you own this tort ? Do you raised the tort from a hatchling ?


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## Beedee (Dec 7, 2017)

I have had her for 2 and a half years, so I got her when she was 6 months on, upon reflection she probably did not come from the best place, but then again the other one came from there too and he is fine.
I am sure it is kidney problems at this point, I just don't know what to do about it? I imagine the diet has not helped, but again, the other one has been fed the same and he is fine!
I just hope with all these nutrients and vitamins and water she's now getting that it can heal, or atleast become manageable for her.
I find it hard to belie she is happy, and I don't know if she is in pain or discomfort.
I fear she has probably been unwell from the start, she always acted differently and I put it down to personalities...
@Bee62


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## Beedee (Dec 7, 2017)

I just don't know where to go from here... How will I know if she will get better?

It might be important to add when I get her out, on the floor or in the garden etc she will move around. She is slow but she does move


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## Yvonne G (Dec 7, 2017)

It really helps to warm a sick tortoise up, even when you don't know what's wrong with it. So, in my opinion, you should make sure this tortoise is kept upwards of 80F degrees and don't allow it to get any cooler than that. Also warm, daily soaks of at least a half hour.

I guess I'm missing the point. Isn't all urine yellow?


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## Bee62 (Dec 7, 2017)

Beedee said:


> I have had her for 2 and a half years, so I got her when she was 6 months on, upon reflection she probably did not come from the best place, but then again the other one came from there too and he is fine.
> I am sure it is kidney problems at this point, I just don't know what to do about it? I imagine the diet has not helped, but again, the other one has been fed the same and he is fine!
> I just hope with all these nutrients and vitamins and water she's now getting that it can heal, or atleast become manageable for her.
> I find it hard to belie she is happy, and I don't know if she is in pain or discomfort.
> ...


The problem is that damaged kidneys do not recover. There is no way with vitamins or diet or meds from a VET to heal damaged kidneys. Sorry to say that.
6 months as a baby in wrong ( mostly to dry ) conditions can cause irreversible harm to the organs of your tortoise. Some torts can cope better with this others not. Try what Yvonne G told you and keep her warm and well hydrated. 
It is very hard for me to say but when you see there is no improvement put her to sleep that she don`t have to suffer. Reptiles often die a long dead.
Sorry again to say these words to you, but I think you know already that there is not much hope.


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## Beedee (Dec 9, 2017)

@Yvonne G isn't tortoise wee white/clear...? my older one has a clear liquid and a white pasty bit in. Does the photo of the wee look ok to you? The vets seemed to agree that was bad, and her uric acid levels were far to high.

I have actually suddenly seen improvement today where she has done the first clear/white wee in a couple of months, does this suggest to you that she is getting better with hydration? @Bee62 I just want to be 100% sure that she can't recover before I go down that route  I sometimes feel she is sad (if tortoise can have that emotion) however somedays she seems ok.


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## Bee62 (Dec 9, 2017)

Beedee said:


> @Yvonne G isn't tortoise wee white/clear...? my older one has a clear liquid and a white pasty bit in. Does the photo of the wee look ok to you? The vets seemed to agree that was bad, and her uric acid levels were far to high.
> 
> I have actually suddenly seen improvement today where she has done the first clear/white wee in a couple of months, does this suggest to you that she is getting better with hydration? @Bee62 I just want to be 100% sure that she can't recover before I go down that route  I sometimes feel she is sad (if tortoise can have that emotion) however somedays she seems ok.


I can understand you very well. The decision to put an animal to sleep is the hardest to do. We are not God.


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## Kasia (Dec 11, 2017)

Beedee said:


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Ask for Allopurinolum if it's gout it should help but from my experience it supresses apetite. I found herbal soaks very helpful (ingredients in link below). I keep mine fingers crossed for both of you 
https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/teabag-pillow.144140/


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## Stoneman (Apr 18, 2018)

Bee62 said:


> Hello Beedee, sorry to hear that your tortoise is sick.
> Your guess that your tort has kidney problems seem very obviously to me too.
> The high level of urid acid, the yellow urine and the whole behavior of your tortoise are signs of kidney problems.
> How long do you own this tort ? Do you raised the tort from a hatchling ?


Can you provide a link or help describe symptoms of renal failure? I am concerned I have it in my torts. If you look me up on here I just made a post about it.


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## Bee62 (Apr 18, 2018)

VividTortoises said:


> Can you provide a link or help describe symptoms of renal failure? I am concerned I have it in my torts. If you look me up on here I just made a post about it.


I found this page and I am searching for more informations that explains the problem.
http://www.netvet.co.uk/tortoises/renal-problems.htm

http://c.ymcdn.com/sites/members.arav.org/resource/resmgr/Files/Proceedings_2013/58.pdf


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## Beedee (Aug 3, 2018)

Since I made this post she has made a dramatic recovery. It meant force feeding her for about a month (only a syringe in her mouth, not a tube to the stomuch) and force feeding her water with vitamins and minerals added. She had some courses of antibotics too but we never found the source of the problem. It doesn't seem that it wsa renal failure and my vet suggested that from the blood test results she had a high level of antibodys and may of just been fighting a nasty infection. 

She is currently doing much better. Still not fully well and thinking she has a bit of a respiratory infection but it comes and goes!


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## Bee62 (Aug 3, 2018)

Good news. Thank you for the update. I hope that she will recover soon and completely. My fingers are crossed. Brave little tort.


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