# Tortoise Guardianship Bangladesh



## tortadise (Apr 9, 2015)

So as promised a while back. I am posting the project that our organization and CARINAM are currently working on in Bangladesh. Its at the infancy stages of this project. But none the less a very good one. Here is a short version of the program. For the rest you can visit our website(http://www.tortoisesanctuary.org/about/projects/) for the financial breakdown of the cost and more details of the work being done. Visitation to Bangladesh by our staff will be this winter to first hand see the progress and show appreciation to the Mro villagers and CARINAM.

*Mro Tortoise Guardian Program: 


A Model for Turtle Hunting Mitigation in the Chittagong Hill Tracts, Bangladesh
Target Species:
Arakan Forest Turtle Heosemys depressa- Critically Endangered*
_*Keeled Box Turtle Cuora mouhotii- Endangered
Asian Brown Tortoise Manouria emys –Endangered
Elongated Tortoise Indotestudo elongata- Endangered
Sylhet Roof Turtle Pangshura sylhetensis-Endangered*_
*Principal investigator: Shahriar Caesar Rahman






Abstract

*
The Chittagong Hill Tracts (CHT) lies in the southeast of Bangladesh. They are an extensive, hilly area as part of an 1800 km mountain range running from the eastern Himalayas in China to western Myanmar. This region falls within the Indo-Burma Biodiversity Hotspot and harbors many globally threatened chelonian fauna. Hunting appears to be the most immediate threat to turtles in this region. With no intervention hunting will likely cause large-scale, local extinctions of extant, low-density populations. This project proposes to initiate a community owned conservation program within the Sangu Wildlife Sanctuary, Bandarban, Bangladesh. The project will focus on mitigating hunting pressures by converting the local Mro huntsmen into tortoise guardians, and providing their communities with alternative self-sustaining income/sustenance sources, such as, goat farming. Tortoise Guardians will be responsible for the monitoring of local turtle and tortoise species. The project will primarily focus on five species: _Heosemys depressa-_Critically Endangered, _Manouria emys-_ Endangered, _Coura mouhotii-_ Endangered,_ Indotestudo elongata-_ Endangeredand_ Pansghura sylhetensis-_ Endangered. The early success of our pilot study may indicate that it will be viable to form a larger-scale project. This model has a high potential for conserving threatened and endangered Chelonians within the CHT region, and far beyond.
*Background and research or conservation rationale:*
The Chittagong Hill Tracts (CHT) are an extensive, hilly area as part of an 1800 km mountain range that runs from the eastern Himalayas in China to western Myanmar. The CHT makes up the region of Bangladesh bordering Myanmar on the southeast, and India on the north (Tripura) and east (Mizoram). With an area of 13,295 square kilometers, it comprises approximately 10 percent of the total land area in Bangladesh (Gain 2000). This area falls within the Indo-Burma Biodiversity Hotspot and harbors many globally threatened species (Myers et al. 2000). Very little work has been done on the biodiversity of this region, mainly due to remoteness and political instability of the area (Khan 2008). The region is sparsely populated by various ethnic groups of Tibeto-Burmese origin: such as the Chakma, Marma, Tripura and Mro (Lewin 1869). These ethnic people grow rice on the hills under a shifting agriculture system known as _jhum_. Vegetation is cleared, burned and cultivated for one year before being fallowed for 2-5 years, after which, farming is moved to a new area following the same procedure. Patches of forested area are left untouched in riparian areas to retain water. These patches often serve as suitable habitat for terrestrial turtles and tortoises. Hunting is very common and widespread in the region (Khan 2008). The people here hunt primarily for local consumption to meet their protein needs. Therefore, turtles are opportunistically captured and hunted with the aid of local hunting dogs, and sometimes pitfall traps. Hunting is likely the largest conservation threat for turtles and tortoises within this region. I have been conducting surveys in the Sangu Wildlife Sanctuary (SWS) and adjacent areas in the Bandarban District of the southern CHT for the past three years. In this time, I have identified several localities of the endangered Asian Brown Tortoise (_Manouria emys_) and Elongated Tortoise (_Indotestudo elongata_). I have also recorded the occurrence of the critically endangered Arakan Forest Turtle (_Heosemys depressa_) and endangered Keeled Box Turtle (_Cuora mouhoti_) for the first time in Bangladesh in 2011 and 2014, respectively (Rahman et al. in preparation). In 2014, I have found a total of one hatchling, one juvenile, two live adults and nine shells of _H. depressa_ in five localities. According to the locals, more than 100 _M. emys _are harvested from that area every year. Based on interview surveys, I haven not found evidence of commercial turtle harvesting for the pet trade or Chinese medicinal uses in this region. Since hunting appears to be the most immediate threat to turtles here, with no intervention it will likely cause large-scale, local extinctions of these already low-density populations (Klemens and Thorbjarnarson 1995). Due to the remoteness of this area, the Forest Department of Bangladesh exercises little to no jurisdiction or enforcement in the CHT. Therefore, top-down regulation for hunting will have little effect here. Mitigation of turtle hunting in the CHT would require the formation of close relationships with local people such as the Mro, and provide alternative sources of sustenance and livelihood for these people. I have been working very closely with the Mro community near to the Sangu Wildlife Sanctuary on a grassroots level within the Bandarban district from 2011 to the present. In this time, I have gained a thorough knowledge of the social-economic needs of these people. Herein, I propose to initiate a community owned conservation program in the SWS to mitigate hunting pressures by converting the local Mro huntsmen into tortoise guardians and providing their communities with alternative self-sustaining income/sustenance sources, such as goat farming. In return, Tortoise Guardians will be responsible for the monitoring of local turtle and tortoise species. Similar approaches have been proven successful with Egyptian tortoises in Egypt (Attum et al. 2008), lions in Kenya (Hazzah et al. 2014) and hornbills in northeast India (Datta and Rane 2011). This program will serve as a strong conservation model for this region.
*Goals*:

To establish a community owned in-situ conservation program to protect the wild populations of highly threatened turtle and tortoise species.
To raise awareness on the importance of turtle conservation among local tribal communities.
To increase our understanding on the ecology of these species.
To provide local training in conservation research techniques.
*Objectives*:

To mitigate hunting pressures by converting the local Mro huntsmen into tortoise guardians and providing their communities with alternative self-sustaining income/sustenance sources.
To hire local residents to conduct mark-recapture study and field survey to monitor turtle populations.
Develop an appreciation and sense of investment in Chelonian conservation within the local area.
*Specific methodology:*
Study area: Our project site will be within the Sangu Wildlife Sanctuary (21° 26.981'N, 92° 33.398'E), a 2600 hectare mixed-evergreen forest declared as a protected area by the Bangladesh Forest Department in 2010-located 30 km southeast of Alikodom town- and adjacent Mro tribal land, within the Bandarban District of Bangladesh
(For some reason the map wont upload here)
_Figure 1: _Map of Our Study Area; The locations on the map where we have found the following species.
Heosemys depressa: 2, 12, 13, 14, 15, 20, 23, 24, 25, 26.
Manouria emys phayrei: 2, 23, 24, 25, 26
Cuoura mouhotii: 12, 13, 14, 20, 23, 24, 25, 26
Pangshura sylhetensis: 23, 24, 25, 26
Indotestudo elongata: Found in all sites.
The upstream of Sangu River (23, 24 25, 26) is probably the most suitable sites for in-site conservation program. Therefore, initially, we will focus in that area.
The program will focus on improving the livelihood of the Mro tribes by providing alternate sources of income and sustenance currently attained from traditional hunting practices. Initially, I will target four localities where there are significant populations of _M. emys_, _H. depressa_ and _C. mouhoti_. Four villages will be selected from each of these localities for the Tortoise Guardian Program. A contract will be drafted and signed by the village chiefs within each of these villages. This contract will detail the stipulations of the Tortoise Guardian Program and will be signed in witness by a government elected union member. If the village fails to adhere to the contract guidelines, then it will be pulled from the program. In that event, all aid provided from the project, such as livestock for farming, will be taken away, and the village will be put under a probationary period. After the contract is reviewed and signed, I will select 1-2 individuals from each village to recruit as tortoise guardians. Typically, these members will be either the village chief, or a respected individual of each community. In addition, a Chief Tortoise Guardian will oversee all four villages and keep a steady line of communication with myself on activities, and act as a local coordinator of the program. After immediate selection, tortoise guardians will be brought to Dhaka for a week long intensive training program. This program will focus on goat farming methodologies, turtle monitoring methodologies such as standard mark-recapture techniques (marking and collection of biometric data), and training in the use of project equipment. Once training has been completed, appointed Tortoise Guardians will be responsible for releasing any turtles captured by villagers to the site of capture shortly after individually marking each turtle and collecting morphological data. We plan to use a standard notching method for individual identification and guardians will be provided with a field data collection kit containing: field identification guides, pens, calipers, weighing scales, cameras, gps units, and data collection notebooks.
Activities will be monitored within each village by frequent, unannounced visits by me or my Chief Tortoise Guardian, Parsing Mro, a native of the area whom has been working with me for the last three years and well respected among the Mro communities. Parsing Mro will coordinate work in the field and will receive a monthly stipend. The success of the program will be evaluated by the number of turtles villagers hand in to us. We have been working on a pilot study to determine the feasibility of a larger-scale program. In the pilot, we helped to establish both a chicken farm and a goat farm in two villages. From this pilot, we learned that goat farming using a combination of modern and ingenious farming techniques would be more appropriate for the Mro people due to the remoteness of the area, and inaccessibility to markets to purchase new livestock. Commercial intensive goat farming may not prove to be sustainable there. For each village participating in the program, local goat breeds will be provided to the village, as they have strong resistance to disease, are low maintenance and have very low impact on the environment. In addition, goats will be housed in bamboo enclosures that we will build. The goats will be community owned; by rotation each family will be responsible for feeding, care, and herding of the goats. In return for assisting each village with setting the foundations for sustainable farming, Tortoise Guardians will have two major responsibilities: to obtain any turtles or tortoises captured by village hunters, and to provide education to neighboring villages about the importance of preserving turtles. As a result of our initial pilot study, within just two months, villagers had given us seven _I. elongata_, four _H. depressa_ and one _Cyclemys sp. _which their hunters had found on regular trips to the surrounding forest. All of those turtles were released back in the wild.The early success of this pilot study may indicate that it will be viable to form a larger-scale project. I believe this model will have a high potential for conserving threatened and endangered Chelonians within the CHT region, and far beyond.
*Long term Vision:*
Chittagong Hill Tracts harbors many globally threatened chelonian species. Due to the remoteness of this area, the Forest Department of Bangladesh exercises little to no jurisdiction or enforcement in the CHT. Therefore, top-down regulation for hunting will have little effect here and consequently traditional approach of protected area conservation might not be effective here in this region. Therefore conservation program must directly involve the local indigenous people.
My long term vision is to create a long-term, self sustaining, community owned conservation initiative in CHT region to mitigate hunting and conserve the turtle population by improving the livelihood of the indigenous people. My project partner will be IUCN-Bangladesh and the project will be conducted in collaboration with Forest Department of Bangladesh. I plan to raise additional funds for long term project using year one results as leverage.
*Project deliverables:*
These will be the project deliverables from the* first year* of the study:

Establishment of a primary school for mitigating turtle hunting
A contract signed by at least four Mro villages to give up turtle consumption and form a network of Tortoise Guardians covering an area of 40 square kilometers.
Capacity building and training of at least four Mro villagers as tortoise guardians who will act as ambassadors for turtle conservation in the area.
A website will be launched to disseminate information about the project and social media platforms will be utilized to help spread this information.
Photo-documentation of the project; to be used on the website and in written reports for documentation purposes.
Turtle and tortoises captured will be recovered from the villages, identified and released into the wild.
Baseline data on turtle populations for this region will be collected as a direct result of the program culminating in a report.
Data will be collected to form a long-term radio telemetry and mark-recapture study on understanding the ecology of these species.
*Literature cited:*
Attum, O., B. Rabea, S. Osman, S. Habinan, S. Baha El Din, B. Kingsbury. 2008. Conserving and studying tortoises: A local community visual-tracking or radio-tracking approach? Journal of Arid Environments 72:671-676.
Datta, A. and Rane, A. 2011. Conserving a hornbill haven. Hornbill Nest Adoption Program Report: Nature Conservation Foundation of India.
Gain, P. 2000. The Chittagong Hill Tracts: Life and Nature at Risk. Society for Environment and Human Development. Pp 121.
Hazzah L., Dolrenry S., Naughton L., Edwards C., Mwebi O., Kearney F., Frank L. 2014. Efficacy of Two Lion Conservation Programs in Maasailand, Kenya. Conservation Biology 28 (851-860)
Khan, M. M. H. 2008. Protected areas of Bangladesh: a guide to wildlife. Nishorgo Program, Bangladesh Forest Department, Dhaka, Bangladesh. Pp 120.
Klemens, M.W. and Thorbjarnarson, J.B. 1995. Reptiles as a food resource. Biodiversity and Conservation. 4: 281-298.
Lewin, T. H. 1869. The Hill Tracts of Chittagong and the dwellers therein. Bengal Printing Company Limited, Calcutta.
Myers, N. et al. 2000. Nature. 403, 853–858.
Platt, S. G., Khin, M. M., Win Ko, K., Maung, A., & Thomas, R. R. 2010. Field observations and conservation of heosemys depressa in the rakhine yoma elephant range of western Myanmar. Chelonian Conservation and Biology 9(1), 114-119.


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## Tidgy's Dad (Apr 9, 2015)

Absolutely brilliant !


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## tortadise (Apr 9, 2015)

One thing I didn't mention. We will be introducing Manouria emys phayrei and indotestudo elongata offspring in the Chittagong hills in the next 2 years. Manouria have almost been documented as functionally extinct in this western region of the species.


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## Tidgy's Dad (Apr 9, 2015)

Natural extinction or human interference in the eco-system?


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## tortadise (Apr 9, 2015)

Tidgy's Dad said:


> Natural extinction or human interference in the eco-system?


Human mostly. A lot of the tribes there consume them. They're the largest chelonian in the area along with sylhet roofed turtle. The photos of the Manouria tied up to a tree was actually successfully relinquished after Capitol persuasion. But the goal is to not remove food from the natives plate. Education is the most valuable tool in projects like this. Were also doing the same in Western Africa with tribes that consume Kinixys and pelusios. Removing a food source from raw organic people like these tribes is very hard for the. To understand and can become a hostile situation. It's quite fascinating how the methodology works. We use diplomats that are friends or "companions" to these tribes and let them gain trust to become a member or ally of the tribe. Then they can begin to persuade newer techniques that don't require hunting and gathering. We've sent over a hydroponic system plan to west Africa in Togo and Benin. It grows vegetables in the water and tilapia are kept in the water tank that holds the plants. So a food source on both protein and flora level is utilized. Chicken propagation is also initiated. It gets scary with goats, and pigs though. They're quite invasive. Helping the people first is the only success in accomplishment to succeed at helping the animals.

Were solely sponsoring 4 individuals from the Mro tribe. They patrol a 100,000square kilometer region and not only watch for poaching of turtles and tortoises but also tigers, foxes, sunbeams, birds of prey, bats, Burmese pythons and pangolins. It's a very rewarding grassroots conservation program. Were quite excited to show results of our organizations founding slogan and impose the true meaning of the word "conservation"


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## Tidgy's Dad (Apr 9, 2015)

This is truly wonderful, as I say, and I am interested because I helped on similar projects to preserve the wildlife in Thailand many years ago.
I have qualifications and experience in conservation and palaeontology and was wondering if the 2 extinct species were extinct in the region due to man's activity or just survival of the fittest. It is sometimes a bad idea to reintroduce organisms to an area where other species have naturally superseded them, (Jurassic Park!) for example in England a close eye is being kept on the reintroduced beaver populations to see they have a negative effect on the current animal and plant communities and if any infections they may carry are harmful in these habitats. Torts or turtles reintroduced may have different microbes and parasites also.I'm sure you know all this, but am curious of the precautions and how conservationists (rather than evolutionary theorists) think nowadays,as I've been rather out of the loop.
But after many years of inactivity and illness I want to do something else, so am about to embark on discussions with the Moroccan authorities regarding a similar set up to the one you are doing, here in Morocco to protect wild tortoise populations. 
i understand the importance of providing alternative income to the people in the areas and how it is necessary for them to become the guardians themselves, not just me walking about with a big stick. i plan to accomplish this by utilizing the Europeans love of tortoises to set up tourist visiting areas and provide local towns with work in the tourist trade. I have already arranged for a couple of previous tortoise sellers to stop and produce souvenirs of tortoises from wood, brass and local stone which they can actually sell for more money than they get for the torts, here in Fes medina.
Thank you for all this and keep up the good work and I hope I can rely on you for advice in the future, should I need it.
Bless.


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## Anyfoot (Apr 9, 2015)

tortadise said:


> So as promised a while back. I am posting the project that our organization and CARINAM are currently working on in Bangladesh. Its at the infancy stages of this project. But none the less a very good one. Here is a short version of the program. For the rest you can visit our website(http://www.tortoisesanctuary.org/about/projects/) for the financial breakdown of the cost and more details of the work being done. Visitation to Bangladesh by our staff will be this winter to first hand see the progress and show appreciation to the Mro villagers and CARINAM.
> 
> *Mro Tortoise Guardian Program:
> 
> ...


Amazing. That was some interesting reading. Extremely good stuff your doing there. Must be very interesting, Talk about job satisfaction, this will for be for you when its successful. 
Just to give me a guide of there economy. Is $3077 per annum considered an average salary in Bangladesh.


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## tortadise (Apr 9, 2015)

Tidgy's Dad said:


> This is truly wonderful, as I say, and I am interested because I helped on similar projects to preserve the wildlife in Thailand many years ago.
> I have qualifications and experience in conservation and palaeontology and was wondering if the 2 extinct species were extinct in the region due to man's activity or just survival of the fittest. It is sometimes a bad idea to reintroduce organisms to an area where other species have naturally superseded them, (Jurassic Park!) for example in England a close eye is being kept on the reintroduced beaver populations to see they have a negative effect on the current animal and plant communities and if any infections they may carry are harmful in these habitats. Torts or turtles reintroduced may have different microbes and parasites also.I'm sure you know all this, but am curious of the precautions and how conservationists (rather than evolutionary theorists) think nowadays,as I've been rather out of the loop.
> But after many years of inactivity and illness I want to do something else, so am about to embark on discussions with the Moroccan authorities regarding a similar set up to the one you are doing, here in Morocco to protect wild tortoise populations.
> i understand the importance of providing alternative income to the people in the areas and how it is necessary for them to become the guardians themselves, not just me walking about with a big stick. i plan to accomplish this by utilizing the Europeans love of tortoises to set up tourist visiting areas and provide local towns with work in the tourist trade. I have already arranged for a couple of previous tortoise sellers to stop and produce souvenirs of tortoises from wood, brass and local stone which they can actually sell for more money than they get for the torts, here in Fes medina.
> ...


Yes indeed. Reintroduction is very difficult. Especially with reptiles. The protocol is quite extensive. Minimum standards are followed by IUCN reintroduction protocols. Lots of screenings. Soft releases are usually to go first within a controlled and fenced in area to and more screening, batteries of tests. It also depends on the status of species and introduction. For instance in Myanmar they are introducing Platynota in there region but have been extinct completely and no data has shown wild populations for decades. So the protocol is still very strict. But without a wild population present the pathogens carried if any would not in theory pass to any others as they're the first ones back. But no pathogens should be present as those animals would not be cleared to be released. 

It takes a committee to approve the release, also takes IUCN approval before any actual wild release is to take place. Also takes a vote from the committee established by both organizations of unbiased individuals with credentials that are to meet minimum standards and relation to the project. 

For west Africa (and I use west Africa first because we have not created a committee yet for Bangladesh) we have two organizations partnered. 3 members from our side and 3 from his. Ours is me, a veterinarian, and a well documented biologist with extensive knowledge in herpetology mainly chelonians. ACI has Tomas, a veterinarian, and research biologist of pathogenic influences in wild ecosystems. All are not friends or buddies, nor should they be. Very educated to the fields of program and will only sign off once minimum standards are exceeded. Then it gets presented to the local IUCN. Authority and ministry of agriculture for green light to release.

A bit different than just sending them on there way and hope for best. But then follow up research is done and published over a 5 year period. Radio tracking, blood samples, full screening during the data collection. If it proves in theory successful of 40-50% survival to adulthood and reproduction then it is a success and should commence full time release. 

So far the Galapagos has shown success in reintroduction which great. Other reintroductions have proven complete failure. But standards and protocols were not initiated. California desert tortoise and the Chaco tortoise in Argentina are prime examples that if not done with care, ease, and extreme attention to detail failure can and will cause more damage than benefit. But this will all be thoroughly screened.

Another thing with different introductions is the need. Like I said earlier the Platynota was a true reintroduction to regionally extinct territory. When a population is still present but declining that's a "reinforcing" population program. On that level it requires lots of data from the current wild populations, range migration patterns, phylogenetic analysis in comparison with phylogeographic analysis(just because they're the same species regionally they can uphold different genetics, adaptations, things of that sort) so with that. The best thing to do is remove specimens from that region(once the territory of migration has been determined and limits of similar phylogenetic specimens have seemed to become similar) then you utilize those wild specimens taken to become founders of the reinforcement population group. 

Then on reinforcement population you have to take into account genetic diversity and release ratio. If you have 1 make to two females that's technically one diverse bloodline since there's only one sire to two damns. Also have to take into account whether or not any of the founder reinforcement population have any genetic relation too. In reptiles it takes quite a lot of line breeding to mess things up. But when thinking on taking a chunk from the wild to then repopulate offspring back into the wild it should be as diverse as possible. So on that. You want to release from let's say a 10.20 group for only 2-3 years and then collect data for the next 5-7 and see if it's successful before commencing on more introductions for a reinforcement population. A a reintroduction or new release like the Platynota should be done year after year with as much diversity as possible. But data should still be collected for similar purposes.

Anyways lots of rambling from me. Cool stuff that just makes smile and appreciate what I feel is right to do for these shelled friends of ours.


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## tortadise (Apr 9, 2015)

Anyfoot said:


> Amazing. That was some interesting reading. Extremely good stuff your doing there. Must be very interesting, Talk about job satisfaction, this will for be for you when its successful.
> Just to give me a guide of there economy. Is $3077 per annum considered an average salary in Bangladesh.


That's correct. We sponsor at a minimum $5000 USD annually for 4 guardians. As it builds and grows, sponsorship will reach 110,000 USD annually needed to complete the entire program. Baby steps first. Need to get more positive success data before we can venture to raise more Capitol.


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## Tidgy's Dad (Apr 9, 2015)

Rambling is cool . If there's one thing I'm actually an expert at, it's rambling, so take it from one who knows.
I now understand that the specimens reintroduced need to be pathogen free and you mention that if they are extinct in that region then it isn't a problem, but surely it is sometimes virtually, indeed realistically, impossible to positively exclude the presence of pathogens in an organism and even if that organism is extinct there, some pathogens are cross-specific and in this case may infect the local none extinct tortoise or turtle population, like greek torts sometimes causing damage to other species but not being bothered by their natural bio-fauna themselves.
Please ramble some more. I am interested, not critical.


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## Rachel Sobran (Apr 9, 2015)

it makes my sick that people would drill holes in their shells and use it to tie them to things like trees.  that is inhumane and cruel!


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## tortadise (Apr 9, 2015)

Tidgy's Dad said:


> Rambling is cool . If there's one thing I'm actually an expert at, it's rambling, so take it from one who knows.
> I now understand that the specimens reintroduced need to be pathogen free and you mention that if they are extinct in that region then it isn't a problem, but surely it is sometimes virtually, indeed realistically, impossible to positively exclude the presence of pathogens in an organism and even if that organism is extinct there, some pathogens are cross-specific and in this case may infect the local none extinct tortoise or turtle population, like greek torts sometimes causing damage to other species but not being bothered by their natural bio-fauna themselves.
> Please ramble some more. I am interested, not critical.


Well not that they are ok to have pathogens at all. It's just not as much of a risk as there is no native population. But other species of chelonian could be present. So in terms any introduction has to be cleared of everything. It's just more strict and looked at finer when introducing into populated regions, those introductions could carry a much more detrimental effect.


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## tortadise (Apr 9, 2015)

Rachel Sobran said:


> it makes my sick that people would drill holes in their shells and use it to tie them to things like trees.  that is inhumane and cruel!


It seems that way yes. But they don't know any better in reality. They're just surviving. Feeding the tribe, families, children. These scenarios are all over the remotes parts of the world. They have no idea what the internet is, research, endangered species, how it affects the population. In turn the tribes and villages are not the issue. It's the commercialized industry of pet trade, Asian market consumption, medicinal purposes that cause the extreme endangerment. These people in Bangladesh and all over the world only take what they need to survive, western civilization and 1st world people are the ones that bride them with riches to catch more and collect as many as possible.


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## Tidgy's Dad (Apr 9, 2015)

tortadise said:


> It seems that way yes. But they don't know any better in reality. They're just surviving. Feeding the tribe, families, children. These scenarios are all over the remotes parts of the world. They have no idea what the internet is, research, endangered species, how it affects the population. In turn the tribes and villages are not the issue. It's the commercialized industry of pet trade, Asian market consumption, medicinal purposes that cause the extreme endangerment. These people in Bangladesh and all over the world only take what they need to survive, western civilization and 1st world people are the ones that bride them with riches to catch more and collect as many as possible.


Warning! Warning!
Danger! Danger!
Close to being political!
But you are right, I know from my time in East Asia and now in North Africa.
Thanks for this whole thread, extremely informative and heartwarming.


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## puffy137 (Apr 9, 2015)

Rachel Sobran said:


> it makes my sick that people would drill holes in their shells and use it to tie them to things like trees.  that is inhumane and cruel!


About 100 years ago when tortoises were first beginning to be kept as pets in UK , this was the norm .


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## puffy137 (Apr 9, 2015)

tortadise said:


> It seems that way yes. But they don't know any better in reality. They're just surviving. Feeding the tribe, families, children. These scenarios are all over the remotes parts of the world. They have no idea what the internet is, research, endangered species, how it affects the population. In turn the tribes and villages are not the issue. It's the commercialized industry of pet trade, Asian market consumption, medicinal purposes that cause the extreme endangerment. These people in Bangladesh and all over the world only take what they need to survive, western civilization and 1st world people are the ones that bride them with riches to catch more and collect as many as possible.


Many years ago my fathers nephew was an engineer who was sent to work on the Brahamputra river to help stop it from flooding .Guess that might have helped humans , but not good news for the turtle population ,


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## Jacqui (Apr 10, 2015)

puffy137 said:


> About 100 years ago when tortoises were first beginning to be kept as pets in UK , this was the norm .



In the USA too. I had a wonderful DT whose owners had drilled and tethered him, so he would not wander off while camping.


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## Tom (Apr 10, 2015)

Pangolins are AWESOME!


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## tortadise (Apr 10, 2015)

Tom said:


> Pangolins are AWESOME!


Yeah they really are.


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## allegraf (Apr 28, 2015)

tortadise said:


> Yeah they really are.


They are pretty neat-o! Great reading and happy that you are doing wonderful things to make a difference! Well done, Kelly.


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## tortadise (Apr 28, 2015)

allegraf said:


> They are pretty neat-o! Great reading and happy that you are doing wonderful things to make a difference! Well done, Kelly.


Thanks Allegra. We just had our first congregation meetings went well. The military is giving full support in the immediate area(lots of rebels and hostile territory) they do not allow foreigners however. So when I make the physical trip I cannot visit with the Mro villagers unfortunately. But the forest ministry is on the next congregation about release site for ex-situ to in-situ release. A very cool project indeed with great goals and a fine example in conservation making a difference.


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## zenoandthetortoise (Apr 28, 2015)

Thanks for sharing this. Fantastic work.


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