# What are peoples views? Shade



## Koen (Oct 19, 2018)

Hello everyone,

I have been keeping and breeding Hermans, both Westerns and Eastern for quite some time, about 14 years, but had an interesting discussion with someone yesterday that made me think.

I have got spacious enclosures, all facing South with additional heating for my Hermannis ssp. but i still have a lot of space outside that is basically in full shade throughout the day where I was planning to build additional enclosures that should act as a sort of 'care centre' ( don't know the proper English word  )

The setup would be as per the ones I have now, so about 15m2 for 1.2 with additional heating in the greenhouse. The greenhouses now maintain +22c during the season with 2 additional ceramic heaters to 35c to bask. The only thing i would add to the enclosures that would come in the shade is a uvb bulb type Arcadia D5 12% or something.

What do you guys think? Considering the following

Keep them outside in full shade, with additonal UVB with spacious enclosures OR keep them inside in smaller enclosures. I do live in Belgium, so spring kicks in quite late, usually beginning of May. My animals wake up somewhere around mid March in their greenhouses. Then I close off the greenhouse, switch the lights on so it maintains that 22c+ so what do you guys think? Feasible or not?

I would always prefer the outside enclosure but very keen to know how you guys feel about this.
Picture of 1 of my enclosures as reference.

Cheers,

Koen


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## jsheffield (Oct 19, 2018)

Beautiful enclosure ... thanks for sharing!

Jamie


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## Yvonne G (Oct 19, 2018)

It is my understanding that the UVB rays bounce off of things in the yard, so even in shade one may get the benefits of them.

@Markw84 ??


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## T Smart (Oct 19, 2018)

Yvonne G said:


> It is my understanding that the UVB rays bounce off of things in the yard, so even in shade one may get the benefits of them.
> 
> @Markw84 ??



Very interesting. I've found my Russian basking in areas of reflected light before. Since he does this, I'm assuming it's beneficial?


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## Koen (Oct 19, 2018)

I have noticed this in one of my current enclosures as well. At the right side were my daughters arm is, we have a large window that reflects sun into their enclosure and they do bask in that reflection as well.

Should I build additional enclosure in that have shade most of the day i would definitely add additional UVB. Just wondering how you guys think of this.


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## wellington (Oct 19, 2018)

I would use that space for adults for sure. Babies I would raise inside in a controlled environment. Using only reflective uvb would depend on if there is any sunlight reaching close to that space at all and for how long. If plants can thrive in it then there is probably enough sunlight/uvb for torts.


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## Tom (Oct 19, 2018)

If you can maintain the correct temperatures and meet their other needs in the larger greenhouse enclosure, then a large space is better for them. My question would be ground temps when its cold outside. If the ground in there is cold, it can really suck the heat out of a tortoise.


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## Koen (Oct 19, 2018)

Valid point Tom, since I live in Belgium temperatures are far from ideal. I do mix the soil with sun split which heats up rather quickly in my other enclosures but when there is no sun that might be an issue. Not sure how to resolve that one

Their greenhouses are quite large, about 2m2 for 1.2 or 1.3 but I don’t want them to cool down rapidly outside when temps cool down fast, especially during spring and what I also don’t want is to start dragging with them by moving them into their green house every night. Hmm Stuff to think about. 

Yes, I would only house adults in there Wellington and would definitely add uvb bulbs should I build an enclosure that has shade the majority of the time


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## JoesMum (Oct 19, 2018)

I had my worst ever sunburn in deep shade. I was a teenager and knew I didn't need sunscreen while I lay outside reading on a humid, cloudy day under a tree [emoji849] UVB doesn't pass through solid barriers and fine mesh, but your torts are fine in the shade.

Have you seen my thread about keeping a Greek outside in the UK?
https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/outdoor-accommodation-in-a-colder-uk-climate.140866/

The problem you have outdoors in complete shade is basking. They do need a hot sunny patch to bask in. Adapting the enclosure to allow outdoor basking is better than for ing adult torts to stay indoors in my opinion


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## Koen (Oct 19, 2018)

You are definitely right and I always provide additionall heating, even my south facing enclosure have 2 100w ceramic heaters which I would also install in the so said ‘shade enclosures’ and add 1 Arcadia uvb bulb

Yes, I have read about Joe


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## Koen (Oct 24, 2018)

Thanks for the input guys, so the conclusion is that it might be possible considering;
I find a solution to heat up the soil? Would it be an idea to put in insulation about 40cm deep and work with light soil and white rocks?


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