# Lids for outdoor pens



## Team Gomberg (Jan 16, 2013)

I have sectioned off another area of my back yard to be the future outdoor pen for a Russian tortoise. It is rectangle in shape but doesn't have 90degree corners. It's 17' feet long, 7' wide on one end and 4' wide at the other end. 

I am still weighing my options about a lid. Whether I'll have one and leave the tort out full time (most likely) or if I'll keep it open and bring the tortoise in at night.

Has anyone ever built a lid for an outdoor enclosure that size?? 
I see people with 4x8 and 3x5 but 17'x7'/4'?? 

I am curiou to know if any others out there have built pen lids for enclosures this size or larger. 
I have google image searched and searched this forum for examples to the point that my neck hurts!!

If anyone has any examples I'd love to see them. 

Thanks!


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## Momof4 (Jan 16, 2013)

I love your question. I can't wait to see what others are doing.


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## CtTortoiseMom (Jan 16, 2013)

Is the outdoor enclosure built? If so can you post a pic. I think I have an idea.


I guess a pic wouldn't matter. My idea is large weighted fishing net. You might even need two. I do not cover my large outdoor enclosures for my adult Leo or sulcata but I do use one for my yearling Leo and my husband used wood and chicken wire to make it but it is not as big as you describe so it may be combersone to get on.


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## wellington (Jan 16, 2013)

I don't have a pic. However, I would use hardware fabric. The fencing that has little squares in it. It comes in different gaged wire for sturdiness.


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## Team Gomberg (Jan 16, 2013)

I'm familiar with the wire you are referring to...

Its the size the lid would have to be that is throwing me of on the "how to" if i go that route..

Ideally i want a lid..I'm just over whelmed by the thought of covering a big space like that. 

I'll get some pics up and see if any of you can come up with ideas


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## Cowboy_Ken (Jan 16, 2013)

My Russian tort outdoor pen is large like that. I don't cover it. I bring them in at night. They are however, great climbers so watch your corners. I put a piece of board across them so they can't climb out.


Them being the corners.


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## abclements (Jan 17, 2013)

The only thing i can think of is making a couple wooden frames that are maybe 5 or 6 by 7/4 and driving stakes into the ground, so when you put it on it will stay. Hopefully this makes sense to you cuz it makes sense in my head, but then i read it back and i wouldnt understabd what im saying lol


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## dabayliss (Jan 17, 2013)

I am planning a similar pen; 8ft wide, 32ft long. The idea is to build a set of 8x4ft lids and line them along the length of the pen. Alternate lids would be screwed down.

Idea being - each lid is 8x4 (relatively tractable) - haven't decided whether to hinge them yet.


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## Moozillion (Jan 17, 2013)

Great thread. I'm starting to think about starting the outdoor enclosure for my Hermann's. We have both rat and raccoon problems, so it'll need to be lidded. I was thinking of using 4 screen doors for the lid. (I don't know how much plain screen doors cost- could be too pricey). Obviously there would have to be a board or beam down the center for the hinged sides. But at least I could latch them all well. I may reinforce with hardware cloth.


I really like the idea of the 8 x4 sections- I would probably hinge all of mine just because I want to be SURE I can get to her quickly and easily if I need to.


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## Cowboy_Ken (Jan 17, 2013)

For critter control run a hot line 6" above the wall.


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## pdrobber (Jan 17, 2013)

I used wood to create a frame, then attached hardware cloth to it. A hinge would be a great idea, but I just remove the whole thing.


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## lynnedit (Jan 17, 2013)

If you want to make it secure at night, it depends on what you have in your area. Raccoons? then use hardware wire (aka hardware cloth). If you are just worried about birds during the day, then bird netting. Etc.

Bird netting would be easy to set up with a PVC frame, which you could fashion in any shape. Even a walk in. They make those garden clips to snap on and hold the netting in place.

Hardware cloth would take a frame. Dividing it into smaller sections might help make it more manageable.
Heather, will you be able to access your enclosure from both sides? Or is is against a fence or house?


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## Team Gomberg (Jan 17, 2013)

The entire pen is accessible from all 4 sides.
Its on my to do list to get some pictures up!...
My goal is for the Russian to be outside, full time, all year. I'd want night time protection from raccoons or cats or anything.

I like the idea of making separate lid sections. Then i can remove them when i sit out there (i love to watch my tort for hours and not through a screen) and put them back when I'm not there..

Let me get some pics taken and uploaded tomorrow then i can get some better ideas from you all. 

I've also been toying with the idea of making my current 20'x6' for the Russian and using the 17'pen for my Leopard instead.

Oh and corners covered will be an absolute!

Thanks everyone for ideas. Sometimes you just get suck and need others perspective...


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## Team Gomberg (Jan 17, 2013)

Would a night house that locks work instead of an entire lid?
At dusk i could make sure it was safe in the house and then open the door in the morning?

Would the house have to be heated for Russians?


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## Team Gomberg (Jan 18, 2013)

Here is the 20x6 pen normally used for my leopard.

The wall was 4 rows of brick stacked but we decided to finally mortar them and make it a solid brick planter wall. It adds a little more height and is secure. 










Since this pen is still under construction I set up a temporary pen so my leopard can get some sun and some grazing in the new 17'x7' area. 

I framed it for now with some scrap wood beams and 2x4's nailed together. I, too am a wood collector 








You can see the pen has 3 sides that are lined with concrete walkways. The 4th side is just against a rock path. 
I just recently set this up and am still working on removing the previous sod mesh and little rocks.
Once its all cleared and I build the actual frame, I'll add some more dirt and begin growing my grasses, weeds and other seeds/plants.

The 20' pen gets great sun in spring and summer. It barely gets any sun in fall and NO sun in winter. 
I'm thinking this could be the Russian pen instead? Since that species brumates. If I make a secure house for the tortoise to be locked in at night would that work instead of an entire pen cover? Would I want to make it so that eventually when the tortoise brumates outside naturally, its burrow could be in this house so it's protected?

Then I could turn the 17' pen into one for leopard since it has great sun all year long. He still comes in at night and when I'm not home so I could leave it lid-less for now. 

Thoughts?

Oh and the river rock around the water dish.. I plan to lay some of the mortar mix and set the rock into it so none can be pulled up and swallowed. I kept having the water dishes overgrown with weeds so I'm hoping the rocks around the water dish will help prevent that and look nice at the same time. I may just do the concrete and rock to make a mini natural pond..we'll see..


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## Melly-n-shorty (Jan 18, 2013)

I have a 3' by 9' that I made one big lid for... I wish after I built it that I had broken it up into 2 lids to make it easier to open and close... I made mine using a PVC frame and bird netting to make it light weight. the bird netting has wide enough openings to let in all the good sun rays.


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## RedfootsRule (Jan 18, 2013)

The problem with doors is weight...I would need a diagram of how your enclosure is shaped to tell you how to do it. But anyways, your going to need large doors. Doors always require 2x2...But 2x2 warps so badly, that you have to be ridiculously exact in how your door fits into your frame, and when it gets wet, the wood swells, after awhile it warps...You get the idea.
You think the solution is 2x4s...They don't warp. But then you have a door that weighs about 50 pounds. Its really up to you, and how much difficultly you want in opening it. You can do one out of 2x2, and put 20 cross-braces in, it still warps, and then it still scrapes. It becomes difficult to close, after a time. And the ability to do this in itself relies on rather difficult carpentry, so 2x2 becomes hard to work with.
What are you trying to keep out? Racconns? Then you need metal wire, at least 14 gauge. Chicken wire, bird netting...They shred right through it.
Now, PVC doors could be an interesting thing to try....Put cross-braces of 2x4s across the cage and anchoror a PVC frame to that....Perhaps you could secure the wire to it with zip-ties, or something of the sort.
I have a 12x6 enclosure that is enclosed, I might be able to get some pictures later.


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## Melly-n-shorty (Jan 18, 2013)

yea I only had birds and cats to keep out so the bird net was enough but for more persistent critters wire is always better. PVC if you get the thicker walled stuff and glue it properly is easy to work with if you dont have a lot of tools and it is pretty strong especially for how light it is. not super pretty though lol.


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## Team Gomberg (Jan 18, 2013)

Thanks for the tip about warping wood...
Something to consider...


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## lynnedit (Jan 19, 2013)

Peter makes a good point about wood warping. That said, I live in the PNW, so we do have our moisture. 
I used PVC for doors to one outside enclosure, but we only have to worry about a small dog and possibly large birds. 

You could build a hide in the short end, then frame off the rest. The hide could be insulated and in your area, probably just have a dirt base.
I would put a cross beam down the middle the long way (2x6"?), which might need at least one support. A concrete block (even a short row) or stacked pavers would work. Also, the cross piece could be wider if needed. Nice little shade area.
Then have 2 (or 3?) lids on each side, hinged to the cross piece, thus they lift up to the middle.
I used 1"x2" cedar for my frame. I know, I know, wimpy. 
But it was easy to work with and fashion non square frame lids with. Mine are 4' long, with one cross piece for stability. I did stain them 2x with Behr waterproof outdoor stain.
I then attached hardware cloth with U hooks to the underside of the frame. No reason not to attach it to the top, though. U hooks were tedious, so I like Laurie's idea of using screws with big washers. The hardware cloth helps to stabilize the frames. 
So far they have not warped, but I can also hold them in place with hasps, so that helps hold them down.


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## Mich (Jan 23, 2013)

This is a fantastic thread! This summer I'll be undertaking my first outdoor enclosure for me leopard tort and was worried about what to do as far as a lid so this threat helped a lot! Another thing I worry about is skunks. My leopard tort isn't a digger .. but skunks dig and I want to keep them OUT. We also have cats, racoons and birds to worry about. Not sure if I'll feel comfortable enough to leave my tort out over night


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## lynnedit (Jan 23, 2013)

Its good to be concerned. The safest option is a good lid for the day, and bring the tort in at night. Even to just a large rubbermaid with substrate and night heat if needed. 
Or, create a wood or rubbermaid hide on one end, with a floor, (heated if needed), that can be locked up so you can secure your tort in that at night and let him out in the am.


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## Mich (Jan 24, 2013)

I live in Ontario Canada so I have a large indoor setup because our summers are short .. ya I agree, too many critters outside to bother risking it, as much as I'd love it set up a warm night hide with a light and all that I don't see myself risking it. Oh well, no biggie, I'm still pumped about making a nice outdoor enclosure and constantly scanning this forum for pics and ideas!!  I was really racking my brain over how to build a lid so this thread is great! I'd love to see more pics of peoples outdoor enclosures with lids!


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## lynnedit (Jan 24, 2013)

I like Laurie's lids

http://www.tortoiseforum.org/post-502367.html#pid502367


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## kathyth (Jan 24, 2013)

I attached a piece of my Hermanns lid. My wonderful husband built her a great enclosure. The lid was 3 separate parts, of wiring attached to wood frames.
My big problem was the weight of the wood, to change things and get in and garden.
He needed to remove the the middle one and just secure chicken wire n the sides.
This spring he will make changes.
Make sure your lids are easy for you to manage.
I think my husband was keeping bears out. 

I will share some of your good ideas with him.[/i]


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## Team Gomberg (Jan 24, 2013)

lynnedit said:


> Or, create a wood or rubbermaid hide on one end, with a floor, (heated if needed), that can be locked up so you can secure your tort in that at night and let him out in the am.



I like the night time lock box idea and have decided to go that route vs. entire enclosure lids...i think..

I assumed i would need an open bottom so they can dig into the dirt. 
But i should make it solid?
would i want to make a bottom that can hold 6"or so of dirt in it?


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## lynnedit (Jan 24, 2013)

I guess it depends on your temps. Leopards need warmer temps that Med torts, of course.

I wonder if it would work to have a 4x2 box (for example), with one side slightly elevated, wood, and the other side soil?
That way, your tort could pick and choose. Once the tort is a bigger adult, you might even be able to use a small pig blanket (which are not supposed to be buried, so torts just rest on them) on the wood side. Along with heat from the top, both on thermostats.
I have an outside hide box with heat cable running around the sides, about 3 rows, and a small amount under galvanized wire on 1/3 of the floor. The floor is then covered with pea gravel and then aspen. Box is well insulated including the floor. On a thermostat.
This is for a Russian, but not sure you would need to go to these lengths for a leopard tort in So Cal?


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## Dizisdalife (Jan 24, 2013)

Here is the pen I made for my baby sulcata. We had two dogs in the yard and wanted to keep them out. Not that the dogs would hurt him, they would use his pen for their toilet. Plus we have hawks (Coopers and Red Tail), possum, rats, raccoons, and cats. The box you see is heated and insulated. It is off the ground several inches so when it does rain in So Cal it wont get the floor wet. 






Now that he is bigger, weighs almost 20 pounds, we are not concerned about hawks and the dogs are so old they can't jump into his new pen, the same box is used as a night box that we close up and lock each night. We still have raccons vist the yard as well as rats, skunks, and possum. It is a byproduct of having so many fruit trees. The heater is on a thermostat so that the temp can be kept at a comfortable level.





I made the box using an example from some of Tom's post. They are easy to build and I am glad because I am going to build another one in the next couple of months. Chuck has grown so much that he wont be able to get through the door of this one.


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## Team Gomberg (Jan 24, 2013)

dizisdalife, thanks for the examples 




lynnedit said:


> I guess it depends on your temps. Leopards need warmer temps that Med torts, of course.
> 
> I wonder if it would work to have a 4x2 box (for example), with one side slightly elevated, wood, and the other side soil?
> That way, your tort could pick and choose. Once the tort is a bigger adult, you might even be able to use a small pig blanket (which are not supposed to be buried, so torts just rest on them) on the wood side. Along with heat from the top, both on thermostats.
> ...



My leopard is still small and comes in every evening. I'll keep it so that he comes into a humid enclosure every night until he is at least 8-10". So an outside lock box isn't a concern for me with the leopard, yet.

I have decided to use the 20'x6' pen for the Russian(s). I'm starting with one but eventually may try to add more and chose this pen so it could be divided if/when needed. 

This pen has 2 trees in it so we officially decided we will not make an entire lid cover. I like the look of open pens so it works out well for me. 

I now want to make sure I create the safest night time lock box while still providing for the needs of a Russian living outdoors here in so cal.

To get better input on night boxes I'll start a new thread based on that.

Thanks everyone for tips and ideas in aiding me to make a decision!


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