# Euthanasia. Doing it yourself?



## wellington (Aug 21, 2012)

I am asking this because of another thread with a blind, deformed not eating baby turtle. Just want to know if anyone has an idea of a humane way to put a turtle or even a tortoise to it's permanent sleep, with out the assistance of a veterinarian? I know with fish, the most humane, painless way is to put them in the freezer. Now, don't get me wrong. In most every situation, I would take my animal to a vet. However, in this situation and the cost of exotic vets, and the size of the turtle, I think this is where I would take things into my own hands. However, it still has to be humane. The situation of the little turtle is still new. However, I would hate for the poor thing to just die a slow, painful death from starvation. Would the fish way work for a turtle?
Any comments, ideas, criticism welcomed.


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## dmmj (Aug 21, 2012)

An animal exit bag would probably work, pithing could do it, but should not be done by someone not used to it.


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## Arnold_rules (Aug 21, 2012)

wellington said:


> I am asking this because of another thread with a blind, deformed not eating baby turtle. Just want to know if anyone has an idea of a humane way to put a turtle or even a tortoise to it's permanent sleep, with out the assistance of a veterinarian? I know with fish, the most humane, painless way is to put them in the freezer. Now, don't get me wrong. In most every situation, I would take my animal to a vet. However, in this situation and the cost of exotic vets, and the size of the turtle, I think this is where I would take things into my own hands. However, it still has to be humane. The situation of the little turtle is still new. However, I would hate for the poor thing to just die a slow, painful death from starvation. Would the fish way work for a turtle?
> Any comments, ideas, criticism welcomed.



Conceptually, it is the same. Both animals are cold blooded and placing them in the freezer would slow their matabolism down to the point that their entire systems would shut down, basically go to sleep and never waking up.


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## jaizei (Aug 21, 2012)

Freezing is not considered humane anymore. I think CO2 is probably the preferred at home method.


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## wellington (Aug 21, 2012)

Freezing is not considered humane any more for what? Dog, cat, no it wouldn't be. Fish, absolutely the most humane.



dmmj said:


> An animal exit bag would probably work, pithing could do it, but should not be done by someone not used to it.



Neither one of those do I consider humane.


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## jaizei (Aug 21, 2012)

Freezing is not considered humane for anything. 

And considering some of the 'acceptable' methods, that's saying a lot.

https://www.avma.org/KB/Policies/Documents/euthanasia.pdf


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## Masin (Aug 21, 2012)

With my partner being a vet I can say that none of the above are listed as humane in any way and have a fail rate too high to ever be considered such. If this is something you have considered, call every single vet in your area (exotic or not) and rescue and let them know of your situation, there is a reason why they take an oath. If a client is going to go home and take their animals life themselves, or there is the potential, vets have to document this and it is in some cases chargeable. Vets will with out a doubt work with you or do it for free. My partner doesn't charge clients at all if coming in simply to put an animal down, it's not about money and everything is negotiable. A lot of people don't realize this but you can work with your vet on costs. A good vet wants your pet healthy, comfortable and happy and a good one knows how costly these things can become and should work with you to either do things at a deep cost if that's what you need, or free in this case.


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## Mgridgaway (Aug 21, 2012)

I remember some in Florida used to (and probably still do) freeze iguanas and had touted this as a humane way of euthanasia. I later read a report that blood vessels or blood cells freeze and explode before the iguana dies, causing immense pain.

So yeah, probably not a good idea.

As for DIY euthanasia that's humane... I don't know. I try not to think about it, honestly.


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## wellington (Aug 21, 2012)

Masin said:


> With my partner being a vet I can say that none of the above are listed as humane in any way and have a fail rate too high to ever be considered such. If this is something you have considered, call every single vet in your area (exotic or not) and rescue and let them know of your situation, there is a reason why they take an oath. If a client is going to go home and take their animals life themselves, or there is the potential, vets have to document this and it is in some cases chargeable. Vets will with out a doubt work with you or do it for free. My partner doesn't charge clients at all if coming in simply to put an animal down, it's not about money and everything is negotiable. A lot of people don't realize this but you can work with your vet on costs. A good vet wants your pet healthy, comfortable and happy and a good one knows how costly these things can become and should work with you to either do things at a deep cost if that's what you need, or free in this case.



You don't live in Chicago do you. I used to work for a vet. I get all, that. This is a 
baby turtle, that may need to be put down humanely, or starve to death, which is
not humane. Now I have no idea about the persons situation. However, most 
would,not spend 65.00 to 99.00 for an office visit to put a baby turtle down. Yes, 
that's the cost in my area, and oh ya, thats just walking through the door. Thats 
not the precedure. I would like them to have a humane alternative. As for the 
freezing, for fish, it is the humane way. I have no idea if it is humane in any other animal. Now, this is not for me. It is for someone else and anyone else that may 
find themselves in the same situation. This person, actually has not said anything 
about doing anything at this time. It just got me wondering. I have people thinking I am nuts, because I have spent well over $15,000.00 on my at the time 
3 and then again at 4 year old bully alive and walking with a fixed ACL. As much 
as we love our turtles and tortoises, it is the sad truth, that many, even maybe 
TFO members, don't hold them quite as important, when it comes to vet costs.
It would be nice to give them a humane alternative, then to consider the inhumane things some may possibly resort to.


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## Masin (Aug 21, 2012)

wellington said:


> You don't live in Chicago do you. I used to work for a vet. I get all, that. This is a
> baby turtle, that may need to be put down humanely, or starve to death, which is
> not humane. Now I have no idea about the persons situation. However, most
> would,not spend 65.00 to 99.00 for an office visit to put a baby turtle down. Yes,
> ...



No But I've wanted to see Chicago, does that count? 
I hate hearing that some Vets charge anything at all in cases like this, that's truly heartbreaking. I wish we lived near whomever it is that needs help right now. I can ask my partner to get in touch with zoomed at the University and see what alternatives they suggest. I'd love to hear more about your guys repairs! 
I know for sure just being younger, old fashioned southern raised and uneducated that I've mot likely made choices in the past that I'd surely not make now, but still, when I met my partner she was in Vet School, all I knew were mom and pop animal hospitals so I wasn't exactly sure what to expect from the Vet School (Gainesville) well...it blew me away and still does. To see a human scale hospital with every department a human hospital has, just for every type of animal is inspiring. After being there and seeing the measures they go to as well as the owners it's really changed a great deal of my thoughts and ideas. There is a line of credit you can get for your pets, it's called Care Credit, we don't qualify...go figure...Vet School will rack up amazing debts! But a lot of folks do qualify. It's something to keep in mind, I'm sure you know of it but I dunno if the other person does or not. 
I'm glad to hear you were able to extend such amazing care to your kids, I wish everyone could. Even with her at the school we managed about 3K in bills, yuck. By the grace of God we paid it off the week she graduated, if not they wouldn't give her her diploma D:


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## wellington (Aug 21, 2012)

Chicago is a beautiful place. You should visit. Just don't bring your animals, in case they got sick, so probably would you, with the cost of things. LOL The vet I worked for was more like the kind you talk about. Back in Michigan. He even saved the ground moles that were ruining his yard. He would complain about the damage they did, but would still save them from drowning in his pool.LOL Unfortunatly, he died a couple years ago Unfortunatly, working for a vet, you see some of the things that people won't do or maybe can't do for their pets. It can be very sad. I am just hoping to find a DIY humane way for people to do for the (disposable) (not my opinion at all) animals. Hopefully the other person will get some advice from the breeder that sent them the turtle. If not, they are at least trying to give it a nice home until they can figure out if it will be okay. I would think though, that for a turtle or a hibernating tortoise, freezing would be the most humane DIY. That is what they do naturally anyway, the freezing is just bringing them colder and into a more slowed state and eventually, hopefully death.


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## CourtneyAndCarl (Aug 21, 2012)

Freezing is the opposite of humane, even for fish. Yes it slows the metabolism slowly, but it also takes them HOURS to actually die, and most of them are pulled out too early and are actually still alive and die after the pain of "thawing". 

We paid $75 to have one of our cockatiels euthanized at the vet. To me, it's worth it. If it isn't worth it to someone else, then I guess they should just let the tortoise suffer because I don't think any kind of at home euthanasia is humane. 

Although I must ask. The best and most humane way to euth fish nowadays is clove oil. Would that painlessly kill a turtle/tort also?


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## GeoTerraTestudo (Aug 21, 2012)

The most humane way to euthanize an animal - be it fish, turtle, sheep, dog, or human - is to overdose on anesthetic.

In the case of fish, you can overdose on MS-222 (Tricaine methanesulfonate). This chemical is available commercially, without a prescription (it is used in laboratories). You just add it to a small volume of water, and the fish just goes to sleep and never wakes up. This is more humane than freezing.

In the case of mammals, you can inject an overdose of pentobarbital, with the same result. I believe this must be prescribed, though.

As for reptiles, overdose injection of pentobarbital would probably be the method of choice as well.


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## CourtneyAndCarl (Aug 21, 2012)

GeoTerraTestudo said:


> The most humane way to euthanize an animal - be it fish, turtle, sheep, dog, or human - is to overdose on anesthetic.
> 
> In the case of fish, you can overdose on MS-222 (Tricaine methanesulfonate). This chemical is available commercially, without a prescription (it is used in laboratories). You just add it to a small volume of water, and the fish just goes to sleep and never wakes up. This is more humane than freezing.
> 
> ...



I believe clove oil is a natural anesthetic, but I could be wrong.


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## Madkins007 (Aug 21, 2012)

Dr. Mader's book on Reptile Medicine and Surgery has lots of info on euthanasia, from counselling to considerations about billing, etc. In the actual chapter on the issue (written by Dr. Mader himself- he edited most of the rest of the book), he makes lots of recommendations depending on lots of conditions (is it going to be necropsied or preserved? Is it large or smallish? Physical condition and age play a role, as does financial and emotional issues of the owners, and so on). 

For the most part, he recommends the use of anesthetics first to relax the animal and reduce sensation and responsiveness. 

Then, the recommendations vary by situation. Small animals, under 40g or so, can be quick frozen. Others need to be pithed or shot in the head. Some can be overdosed. Amphibians can be treated with a topical agent (but it does not list oil of cloves), but not a reptile. Pressure chambers are not considered effective for diving herptiles or those that can hold their breath (like chelonians). Decapitation is debated (the brain seems to live on, so may feel pain), but should always be preceded by anesthesia. 

Vet groups and other animal groups do not consider freezing humane (other than for very small animals that would succumb quickly), even with a 'numbing cooling period' beforehand. Some other groups dispute this pointing out that we have a very poor understanding of what is happening in the animal's brain during the process. There are countless examples of animals that do not seem to be suffering even after extensive trauma. 

And, of course, there are those people that think the idea of limiting pain before euthanasia is sometimes taken too far, that even some of the 'out of favor' methods are better than the sort of death most animals in the world face every day. One 'tool' some of these people use is the 'what if not?' tool- what life does the animal have if not euthanized? If it is going to be abandoned to starve, or is struggling in apparent pain, etc., then perhaps the short-term pain of managed euthanasia is better than the long-term pain otherwise.


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