# Outdoor Enclosure "Lids" or "Ceilings" - Help Needed



## ChloeCrull (Nov 8, 2014)

Hello, fellow tortoise and turtle lovers!

I am looking to add a second enclosure to my collection (an outdoor one). I have a male and female Russian tortoise. My indoor enclosure is currently 6 ft x 2 ft and it's working well for me at the moment, but I want to add an additional enclosure and place it outside. This will also help to prepare me for separation between my two tortoises.

I want to start out with something simple, such as a large plastic tub (cement mixing tub) or a sturdy kiddie pool. However, I need something to cover the top of the enclosure, due to the fact that I live in Fresno, California, and I have spotted dozens of *hawks* circling overhead.

Do any of you know of any hardware stores (Lowe's or Home Depot?) that carry a "lid" that may suite me? *What kind do you use? * Thank you!

Please note: *I am NOT thinking of completely ceiling off my tortoises like a Tupperware container.* I am simply looking for a grill-like cover that will prevent predatory birds from viewing and harming my torts.

These are the kinds of tubs I would use when I allow my torts to soak up some natural sunlight. This will NOT be their primary home, but I also do not want to move them too much as it will stress them.


Here is a picture of a cement mixing tub that I snatched from Google.







Here is a picture of a kiddie pool filled with soil that I snatched from Google.







Also, if I am going to purchase a cover, would it be better to stick to a cement mixing tub? That way, even with the "lid," my tortoises will have enough height in the enclosure for me to add some minor furniture and plants.




This is the "lid" idea that I had for the cement mixing tub—it's basically a rectangular grill grate.







This is the "lid" idea that I had for the plastic kiddie pool—it's basically a circular grill grate.






(Editing this post to add this picture). This is just one more idea that I had (probably the simplest). Can I just buy a wire mesh panel and lay it on top of the enclosure?







Thank you for taking the time to click on this post and read through it. Special thanks to those who respond! I am eagerly awaiting the replies!

P.S. If these ideas look good, *where can I buy the "grate lids?"* Have any of you seen such a thing that would be the appropriate size to cover a cement mixing tub or plastic kiddie pool? Thank you everyone.


----------



## Maro2Bear (Nov 8, 2014)

Yes, yes n yes. Its pretty easy to use the wire screen/mesh/hardware cloth to maie a lid. If you are using the cement mixing tub, get yourself some 2x4x8 foot boards from HD or Anyother store, some hardware screen, a wire staple gun. Fasten ur boards so they cover the top, (basically a large rectangular frame), cut your screen to size, staple in place. Easy to lift on n off. There are lots of pix of lids like this out here. I will take a pix of a mesh screen lid i recently made. Good luck.


----------



## ChloeCrull (Nov 8, 2014)

Maro2Bear said:


> Yes, yes n yes. Its pretty easy to use the wire screen/mesh/hardware cloth to maie a lid. If you are using the cement mixing tub, get yourself some 2x4x8 foot boards from HD or Anyother store, some hardware screen, a wire staple gun. Fasten ur boards so they cover the top, (basically a large rectangular frame), cut your screen to size, staple in place. Easy to lift on n off. There are lots of pix of lids like this out here. I will take a pix of a mesh screen lid i recently made. Good luck.




Thank you, Maro2Bear!

I am so thankful that there are cheap, yet very suitable, homes and ideas out their for our torts. Thank you for the feedback; I'll see what I can find tomorrow! I look forward to seeing your pictures.


----------



## leigti (Nov 8, 2014)

The mixing tub or the pool or great ideas, especially for temporary easy ones during the cooler months.you can buy wiremesh and just lay it on top and then put a board across it to wait it down. or make the rectangular or square frame like suggested above.it kind of depends on how handy you are  you'll want to put something in there to give them shade, and a substrate they couldn't dig into. and if you were leaving it outside drill some holes in the bottom so if it rains the water can drain out.I would also suggest using temperature gun and monitor the temperature. It is amazing how warm it can actually get in the sun, it can be 20° warmer than the air temperature in those tubs. Especially a black one. I am amazed how warm it is in my outdoor pen sometimes, especially up against the walls. And it is made out of wood.so I would say go down to your local Home Depot or Lowes etc. and tell them what you need. There are a lot of options in the fencing materials area .


----------



## Yvonne G (Nov 8, 2014)

Chloe:

Here's where my Russian tortoises live:






...and I live out in the country east of Clovis, so in your same geographical area. I'm sure there are hawks and other predatory birds here, but my turtles and tortoises have never been bothered by them. All of my tortoise yards are open with no covers, even the smallest box turtles.


----------



## russian/sulcata/tortoise (Nov 8, 2014)

how many russians live in that amazing enclosure?


----------



## Jacqui (Nov 8, 2014)

My thoughts are this... one of the reasons for outdoor enclosures is giving them actual room to move around along with the sun and free graze. Unless that black mixing tub is a lot bigger then I think it is, it's way too small. Keep in mind this is going to be outside where you will need areas with shade and sun to do much good, plus your talking TWO Russians. Both the kiddie pool (unless you use a larger size one) and the cement tub are too short in height to have substrate deep enough for plants in them and the tortoise to not be able to climb out. Once you think a lid, then you rule out about all plants, especially ones which could also give shade, because they grow too tall.

That being said, another option for the lid is to take the plastic PVC piping and using it and other of the same type plumbing items for the corners and then make the size and shape what you need out of those. Then if this is just to keep out the birds, you could get by with using chicken wire (of course smaller opening wire is sturdier but also blocks more of the sun) another option is a piece of bird netting. Whatever you use can simply be attached using the plastic zip ties. These weigh very little, so you have the ease when needing to lift them up.


----------



## leigti (Nov 8, 2014)

I think the kiddie pool or tub are good ideas for temporary, brief times in the sun during the colder months. I thought that's what she meant, I might have been wrong.A large permanent closure will definitely need to be built.I am not familiar with the weather where she lives.


----------



## Team Gomberg (Nov 8, 2014)

I also think you should build a pen on natural ground instead of using a tub or pool. Keep it heavily planted and the tortoises will be hidden from bird view just fine. It's locking them up/keeping them protected from night predators that's most important.


----------



## Yvonne G (Nov 8, 2014)

russian/sulcata/tortoise said:


> how many russians live in that amazing enclosure?



1.3


----------



## russian/sulcata/tortoise (Nov 8, 2014)

Yvonne G said:


> 1.3


what does 1.3 mean?


----------



## Yvonne G (Nov 8, 2014)

Team Gomberg said:


> I also think you should build a pen on natural ground instead of using a tub or pool. Keep it heavily planted and the tortoises will be hidden from bird view just fine. It's locking them up/keeping them protected from night predators that's most important.




Heather is right on with this assessment. It is usually too active with human commotion during the day. When you'll have problems with predators is at night when it's quiet. So if you just bring them in at night, or make sure they're locked up in their shelter, it should be fine.

(and Nick - let's don't take this thread off topic. !.3 means one male and three females)


----------



## ChloeCrull (Nov 8, 2014)

Hello everyone!

Thank you for all of the wonderful responses and advise.

I mainly wanted to have an outdoor enclosure to allow my tortoises to roam in the outdoors a few times a week. I live in a two-story apartment, and I have my own strip of land. I will attach pictures when I am home, as I am on my mobile device.

I have two dogs (the complex is aware of ALL my animals, I am not sneaking them in, they love seeing the tortoises) that I let outside for 15 minutes a few times idea to use the restroom. I will never leave my tortoises and dogs together unattended. I'm always outside when my dogs are doing their business to ensure they behave.

What would be the best plan of action? I'll attach multiple pictures later for you to see.

Thank you!


Edit: I am not looking to permanently move their enclosure outside yet. This idea is for brief moments of natural sunlight for my tortoises.


----------



## ChloeCrull (Nov 8, 2014)

Here are the pictures of the yard I have. Please excuse the dog poop!

This is the first thing you see before you walk forward and turn left.



This is the initial view of the land strip when you look left.




When you reach the far end, you see the air conditioning unit and some plots of space.




This is the left side of the air conditioning unit.




This is the spot I am looking to place my tortoises. It has some coverage from view due to the line of bushes. I can also uproot the dead plant to the left with the management's permission,




What do you guys think? Once again, I'm sorry for the dog poop. Thanks for your feedback!


----------



## Yvonne G (Nov 8, 2014)

Hey, Chloe...I've got a shovel you can use for that dog poop!


----------



## ChloeCrull (Nov 8, 2014)

Yvonne G said:


> Hey, Chloe...I've got a shovel you can use for that dog poop!




I'll gladly take it! I'll need it for my weekly Tuesday pickup lol


----------



## Maggie Cummings (Nov 9, 2014)

First I would pick up the dog poop daily. It spreads disease, brings bugs and it's disgusting. To me it's no different then a person pooping on the ground and leaving it. Poop is poop.
I'd grab some cinder blocks and make a pen, then plant weeds and grass and let it grow, then put them outside. I use cinder blocks and wood in all my outside enclosures. I figure it doesn't have to be fancy, it just needs to keep them contained, protected and able to eat weeds and grass....
By the air conditioner is alright, but if your dogs have been pooping there, they also pee there, so I would get several bags of top soil and put that down first, then seed and plant, top soil is about $3 a big bag at HD.


----------



## Yvonne G (Nov 9, 2014)

I had a picture in my mind of leaving the toilet unflushed for a week.


----------



## Team Gomberg (Nov 9, 2014)

I agree with the above. Create a perimeter (cinder block or even plywood has worked well for me) top it off with some fresh soil and sow seeds...lots of seeds! 
As long as it is well planted, they'll be fine outside during the day. Bring them in at night and repeat. 

Here are some of my pens to give you an idea. Notice it's lots of growth VS. a bare dirt patch with plants "here and there"








Anyway, you get the idea 

Hope this helps. Setting up a new outdoor enclosure is always so much fun!!


----------



## Maggie Cummings (Nov 9, 2014)

Yvonne G said:


> I had a picture in my mind of leaving the toilet unflushed for a week.



Yuck!


----------



## Maggie Cummings (Nov 10, 2014)

Team Gomberg said:


> I agree with the above. Create a perimeter (cinder block or even plywood has worked well for me) top it off with some fresh soil and sow seeds...lots of seeds!
> As long as it is well planted, they'll be fine outside during the day. Bring them in at night and repeat.
> 
> Here are some of my pens to give you an idea. Notice it's lots of growth VS. a bare dirt patch with plants "here and there"
> ...



These must have been from when you were in SoCal...cuz the sun is shining... Beautiful places for tortoises to live. (your pens)


----------



## Team Gomberg (Nov 10, 2014)

maggie3fan said:


> These must have been from when you were in SoCal...cuz the sun is shining... Beautiful places for tortoises to live. (your pens)


Yes, those were a few of the SoCal pens! And thank you.

Now in Oregon, only having the 1, I don't have any pens...Just the tort yard/heated house. I miss all the gardening!

I will say southern Oregon isn't at all like I imagined... It's not a rainy place. It has been cooler weather and off/on very light showers but we still have sunshine almost daily and I wouldn't have even classified these as "rainy days". Both Levi and I are pleasantly surprised with the weather  so far...

Back on topic, I really am excited for you to design your pens...it really is the best! So much fun! I'd come do it for you if I could lol


----------



## Maro2Bear (Nov 10, 2014)

So, back to the OP question regarding a lid for a tub, here are the pix that I promised of a simple 2x4 wooden frame covered with hardware wire/mesh. Simple lap joints keep the frame rigid, and the hardware cloth once stapled, makes the frame all the more firm. 

This type frame can be modified to meet your container's dimensions.

Photo 1: shows the container that needs a lid
Photo 2: shows the lap joints with bolt
Photo 3: shows the lid over the enclosure.

Supplies:

4 -- 2 x 4 x 4 - pressure treated wood
4 -- sets of bolts and nuts/washers
1 roll -- Hardware cloth (screen mesh)
1 box Wire staples
staple gun or hammer


----------

