# Pest spray



## klinej50 (Aug 14, 2013)

I know pesticides are bad but my mom found this spray at Home Depot that is supposed to be safe for humans and animals. What do y'all think?


----------



## hunterk997 (Aug 14, 2013)

It would help to post pictures of the labeling or type ehat it says to help determine if it's safe. 


Sent from my Ipod using the tortoiseforum app


----------



## Tom (Aug 14, 2013)

How and where do you intend to use it, and what is it made of?


----------



## klinej50 (Aug 14, 2013)

Oops I meant to post the picture. The picture isn't showing up so i guess I will have to wait for my answer until it does.


----------



## Neal (Aug 14, 2013)

Until you can get the picture up...what type of pests are you trying to get rid of?


----------



## klinej50 (Aug 14, 2013)

It's a bunch of little ones. I'm not big on bugs so idk what any of them are


----------



## klinej50 (Aug 15, 2013)

Finally got the pictures to post!


----------



## Laura (Aug 15, 2013)

call the 800 number and ask them... 
Its says keep children away.. 
what does it say for pets or birds ??


----------



## TortyTom (Aug 15, 2013)

Hummm? I'm no expert but it has pyrethrins, and they are neurotoxins that attack the nervous systems of all insects. Just sounds scary to me! If your worried about those little tiny bugs in your torts enclosure? We all have them and they don't hurt anything. Just my 2 cents!


I wouldn't use it. Here is a link you may want to read. http://www.toxicsinfo.org/pests/Pyrethroids.htm


----------



## IRTehDuckie (Aug 15, 2013)

in my opinion, i wouldnt use it anywhere near my torts, but if you really want to use it i would go right ahead just do not spray it when your torts are around, id wait a day or so, and then put them back in.


----------



## jaizei (Aug 15, 2013)

Based on what the inner label says, no.

Look at the second picture, top right side; it says "Open Resealable label for directions and precautions".


----------



## klinej50 (Aug 15, 2013)

It's for the plants outside. There are so many bugs eating my hibiscus plants that it is killing them. It says it's safe for even humans to eat as long as you wash it off. So if a human can have it does it mean it's okay for a tort?


----------



## TortyTom (Aug 15, 2013)

Pyrethroids: Not as safe as you think
Â©2000 Melissa Kaplan
http://www.anapsid.org/pyrethroids.html



What are the pyrethroids?
Pyrethrin is one of two liquid esters derived from Pyrethrum (feverfew) (C21H28O3 or C22H28O5) that are used as insecticides. Pyrethrum, a nonvolatile hydrocarbon related to kerosene, is a similar insecticide derived from and chrysanthemum flowers.
The fact that they are derived from plants causes some people to think - a point played up by companies using this toxin in their products - that they are safe. Lots of plants are toxic, some in small quantities, others in large. Just because it comes from something lush and ornamental does not mean it can't be lethal. Oleander, azalea, mistletoe, and foxglove are just a few of the pretty - and highly toxic - plants with which we live.
Permethrin is a synthetic pyrethrin (C21H20Cl2O3). In other words, it is a man-made poison that is a copy of two poisons found in plants.

Brand Names
When chemical manufacturers make permethrin or extract pyrethrin for use in their own products or for sale to other companies to use as an ingredient in other products, their "brand" of pyrethrin or permethrin is given a unique name. Some of the names you may see on such products include:
Ambush

Pertox

Resmethrin

Anvil

Persect

Scourge

Ectiban

Permethrin

Sumithrin

Indothrin

Pyrethrin


Cyclopropanecarboxylic acid, 3-(2,2-dichlorethenyl)-2,2-dimethyl-, (3-phenoxyphenyl)methyl ester

Cyclopropanecarboxylic acid, 3-(2,2-dichloroethenyl-2,2-dim


Applications 
The use of these insecticides are wide spread, including:
Ectoparasiticide: It has a potential application for forest protection and vector control for the control of noxious insects in the household and on cattle, for the control of body lice, and in mosquito nets.
Nematocide, Acaricide: Control of larvae (and also adults and eggs) of chewing lepidopterous and coleopterous insect pests on pome fruit, stone fruit, berry fruit, citrus fruit, vines, olives, vegetables, cereals, maize, oilseed rape, cotton, tobacco, soya beans, and in conifer nurseries; whiteflies and other glasshouse pests on glasshouse cucumbers, tomatoes, and ornamentals; and sciarid flies and phorid flies on mushrooms.

Also used for control of crawling and flying insects (e.g. flies, ants, fleas, cockroaches, silverfish, etc.) in public health, and in agricultural premises including animals houses; and as an ectoparasiticide on animals.
Widely used in home and garden pest sprays and in schools, both in the buildings and on the grounds.
To ensure long-lasting effects, the pyrethroid may be mixed with a fixative to make it stay on plants and soil longer, and other chemicals, such as piperonyl butoxide, which prevent the insects from detoxifying, and "inert ingredients". One of the problems is that manufacturers are not required to list the inert ingredients - even though they may themselves be highly toxic or cause know allergic and other reactions in organisms exposed to them - such as you, your children, and your pets.
Some insects have developed ways to detoxify the naturally occurring pyrethrums encountered when feeding on the nectar of feverfew and chrysanthemums, a not uncommon adaptive response. Unfortunately, while insects and plants have had millions of years to work out these survival pathways, we humans haven't.
An increasing number of insects have developed high levels of resistance to pyrethroids, such as cockroaches, head lice, and tobacco budworm, pear psylla, fall army-worm, German cockroach, spotted tentiform leafminer, diamondback moth, house fly, stable fly, head lice, and tobacco budworm. Many of these species are resistant to more than one pyrethroid. Because insects reproduce - and adapt - far more quickly than do vertebrates, they are far better able to evolve defenses against the toxins we throw at them, resulting in an ever expanding range of poisons developed and thrown into our environment.
Pyrethroids, like all toxins, are indiscriminate: they affect all the organisms who come into contact with them in the air, on plants, on the ground, in the soil, and in the water. While your local grower - or you - may be applying it to deal with a specific pest, the products affect everything around it. And, since particulates are easily airborne, they travel, often great distances, from the actual point of application.

Side Effects
Pyrethroids:
Inhalation: coughing, wheezing, shortness of breath, runny or stuffy nose, chest pain, or difficulty breathing.
Skin contact: rash, itching, or blisters.
Long term effects: disrupts the endocrine system by mimicking the female hormone, estrogen, thus causing excessive estrogen levels in females. In human males, its estrogenizing (feminizing) effects include lowered sperm counts. In both, it can lead to the abnormal growth of breast tissue, leading to development of breasts in males and cancerous breast tissue in both male and females.
Neurotoxic effects include: tremors, incoordination, elevated body temperature, increased aggressive behavior, and disruption of learning. Laboratory tests suggest that permethrin is more acutely toxic to children than to adults.
Other: A known carcinogen. There is evidence that pyrethroids harm the thyroid gland. Causes chromosomal damage in hamsters and mice; deformities in amphibians; blood abnormalities in birds.


Piperonyl butoxide:
Skin Contact: skin irritation.
Eyes: eye irritation.
Long term effects: A known carcinogen.
Inert Ingredients: Some known ones include:
Xylenes (agricultural insecticides such as Pounce, Ambush 2E and Ambush 50): eye and skin irritation, headaches, nausea, confusion, tremors, and anxiety in exposed humans. In laboratory tests, xylenes have caused kidney damage, fetal loss, and skeletal anomalies in offspring.
Methyl paraben (head lice cream rinse Nix; regulated as a drug not as a pesticide): a skin sensitizer, causes eye, skin, digestive, and respiratory irritation.
Dimethyl ether (household insecticides such as Flea-B-Gon Total Flea Killer Indoor Fogger and Ortho Total Flea Control 2):. causes respiratory, skin, and eye irritation and depresses the central nervous system. It is also a severe fire hazard.
Butane (household insecticides such as Raid Yard Guard Outdoor Fogger V and Off Yard and Deck Area Repellant) : â€œextremely flammableâ€ and short-term exposure causes irritation, nausea, drowsiness, convulsions, and coma.
So, what's the big deal? 
While pyrethroids may be amongst the least toxic of insecticides, they are an excitatory nerve poison, acting upon the sodium ion channels in nerve cell membranes:
by sending a train of impulses rather than a single one, they overload the pathways, blocking the passage of sodium ions across cell membranes; similar in action to organophosphates (which include the now banned DDT); inhibits ATPase, which affects the release of acetylcholine, monoamine oxidase-A and acetylcholine;
inhibits GABAa receptors, resulting in convulsions and excitability (and more 'minor' problems such as sleep disorders);
known to be carcinogenic;
liver damage
thyroid function
cause chromosomal abnormalities in mice and hamsters;
are highly toxic to insects, fish, and birds;
mimic estrogen, leading to estrogen dominant health problems in females and feminizing effects in males, including lowered sperm counts and abnormal breast development;
sublethal doses have produced a wide array of abnormal behaviors, including aggression, and disruption in learning and learned behaviors
So, what's the alternative? 
The alternative depends on what you are trying to do. In the case of commercial growers, gardens, schools, there in a growing body of information on Integrated Pest Management (IPM). Look for related websites using such meta-search engines such as Google, Teoma and Dogpile, or books at online sellers such as A1 Books, Amazon.ca, Amazon US, Amazon UK, Barnes&Noble, Booksamillion, and Buy.com.
In the home, there are a wide range of non-toxic alternatives depending on what type of pest you are trying to control. Information and links on IMP and home alternatives can be found at my Natural Pest Control page and at the Institute of IPM site.
If you are trying to get rid of reptile mites, there are ways to do it without the use of any toxin on or near the reptile, or even in the enclosure. See my Reptile Mites article for more information.


----------



## Yvonne G (Aug 15, 2013)

This is what I use:

http://www.orangeguard.com/

I have an ant problem. I will take out all the old, ant infested substrate and then spray the whole inside of the tort table with Orange-guard. Once it dries, I'll add new substrate back in.

On the outside of the tort table I use a more toxic bug killer...something I would never use around the tortoises. Something like malathion and something that has a residual coating. But I am very careful that my animals never come into contact with this solution.

Orange guard doesn't really do a good job of killing the bugs, however, it does repel them, and it is safe for the tortoises.


----------



## ascott (Aug 15, 2013)

Oribatid Mites(common type of soil mite), and other soil mites do not eat off of plants, they live on decaying material of plants such as leaves in the soil . soil mites eat fungus, algae, dead springtails, and DEAD plant matter.

These mites are extremely important. They break down old material, such as dead leaves, and put the nutrients back into the soil. This allows living plants to pull the nutrients back into their roots so they can grow.

As mentioned above, Oribatid Mites (common type of soil mite) and other soil mites are extremely important as decomposers. They break down old dead stuff and turn it into soil with lots of nutrients. All living things benefit from the job they do. The presence of lots of mites is a sign of healthy soil. Scientists can study the mites they find in the soil to learn how clean and healthy it is.

Most of the time, people walk upon the soil and don't even know there are millions of mites under their feet!

the mites you need to keep an eye for are spider mites, if not detected early, they can devastate a plant.

Do you know what you are dealing with...because if you kill off the beneficial critters with poison...then the bad critters will be able to run a muck...which is bad...


----------



## Yvonne G (Aug 16, 2013)

I searched GOOGLE for a non-toxic spray to use on my grape vine, which I grow in order to feed the leaves to my tortoises. The grape vine gets hundreds of little flying/hopping/sap-sucking bugs that strip the leaves. I found one such remedy that uses a bit of vegetable oil, a bit of liquid dish soap, then fill up the spray bottle with water. That solution works to keep the bugs off the plant, however, when the sun shines on the wet leaves it causes a burn, so the leaves don't look healthy.

So, take a look at GOOGLE for some types of non-lethal-to-humans-and-animals solutions, and let us know if you find one you like.


----------



## zenoandthetortoise (Aug 16, 2013)

Insecticidal soaps are available commercially (or you can make your own like Yvonne) and work well for soft bodied insects like aphid and whitefly. If you spray in the evening you can rinse in the morning. It will have done its work and will be much easier on the plants. Look for OMRI listing is a good indicator that not just the active ingredient but also the carriers and adjuvants are in the GRAS (generally recognized as safe) category.


----------



## klinej50 (Aug 16, 2013)

Thanks yeah I read something about soapy water will get rid of bugs but I didn't know if the soap would be okay for tortoises. I think this spray is okay as long as I wash the leave first.


----------



## ascott (Aug 16, 2013)

Have you even determined what it is you are killing?


----------



## klinej50 (Aug 16, 2013)

No I don't know what any of the bugs are. There is quite a few different types.


If I post some pictures would y'all be able to help me out?


----------

