# difference between gopherus agassizii and berlandieri



## armandoarturo (Feb 27, 2011)

Ok, I have been having a hard time myself trying to find the differences between gopherus berlandieri and gopherus agassizii.
I've been looking all over the web, and I could find some information, but everything seems to be in cientific terms...
The more I read, the more confused I get...
Especially when I start doubting about my tortoises species...
Could anyone pleeeeease help me out? 
I dont know why It took me too long to make this question in here, instead of having such a hard time these last days...


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## Shelly (Feb 28, 2011)

I don't think the Texas torts have a "Nasal scute" whatever that is.


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## GBtortoises (Feb 28, 2011)

Below is a link to the California Turtle and Tortoise site which contains an illustrated difference between the two subspecies. In terms of physical appearance the two are very noticeably different as sub-adults and adults.

http://www.tortoise.org/archives/gophdiff.html


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## Yvonne G (Feb 28, 2011)

(shelly)John:

Its "nuchal" scute. If you look at the diagram GB gave the link to you'll see an empty space in the shape of a "V" right above the Texas's head. While on the desert tortoises shell, that space is filled in with the nuchal scute.


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## Shelly (Feb 28, 2011)

Thanks for that clarification Yvonne.


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## Tom (Feb 28, 2011)

Also, the Texas torts tend to be a little smaller and darker as adults. Texas torts also have much more of a tendency to pyramid. So, if I saw an adult, 8", dark, pyramided gopherus sp., I'd usually guess berlandieri...


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## Shelly (Feb 28, 2011)

Tom said:


> Also, the Texas torts tend to be a little smaller and darker as adults. Texas torts also have much more of a tendency to pyramid. So, if I saw an adult, 8", dark, pyramided gopherus sp., I'd usually guess berlandieri...



That absolutely, totally describes a tort I rescued a month ago. He's in my garage right now hibernating. I don't want to disturb him to check out his shell, but I'm very tempted to see if he has that "nuchal scute".


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## armandoarturo (Feb 28, 2011)

oooohhhhhh!!
Finally, I will be able to sleep well tonight hahaha xD
yup, no doubt at all anymore... all my babies are gopherus agassizii 

here is a picture of one of my female agassizii followed by berlandieri tortoises of a friend of mine.... xD
You can really tell the difference with the nuchal scute.
Thanks everyone for the help!

gopherus agassizii:






gopherus berlandieri:


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## armandoarturo (Mar 1, 2011)

im not sure if the Texas tortoises are same as gopherus berlandieri...
I got this pictures from a friend, that has a permit that allows him to keep, reproduce and sell gopherus berlandieri.
He has like over 20 of these lovely creatures 
I will try to upload some more pictures 

here:


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## armandoarturo (Mar 2, 2011)

leafeater said:


> wait.. what? Im so lost. You cant sell those in the states legally. Are you out of the country?



yup, Im from Mexico.
fortunally This friend has a permit to do that, and he does it the right way, and he cares a lot for his tortoises.

I wish I could get a permit for agassizii... Im trying to get one, but it seems that its kind of harder.
But still, I will give it a try


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## Tom (Mar 2, 2011)

Holy Cow! What a lucky friend. I counted 22 in the one pic. I sure wish he could legally sell those babies up here. Thanks for sharing those pics.


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## Shelly (Mar 3, 2011)

OK, now how are these 2 varieties different from the polyphemus variety??


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## Yvonne G (Mar 3, 2011)

Shelly said:


> OK, now how are these 2 varieties different from the polyphemus variety??



Or the Bolson's?

I haven't been able to find a nice sketch like this one in this thread for the two mentioned, that included the polyphemus or bolson's. I know that the Bolson's gets way bigger, but that's about it. Where's Danny when we need him?

http://blogs.sandiegozoo.org/2010/01/15/a-desert-tortoise-isn’t-just-any-old-tortoise/


And then there's this one that's pretty dry and a bit hard to understand: http://www.csub.edu/~dgermano/ShellMorphNAmTort.pdf


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## Shelly (Mar 3, 2011)

Bolson's? What's that? Never heard of that one before..

***edit***** Nevermind... should have clicked the link first...


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## Yvonne G (Mar 3, 2011)

That's the most rare Gopherus. I think its "flavomarginatus" or somthing like that. Its found in Mexico.


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## Tortuga_terrestre (Mar 3, 2011)

I saw Taxas Desert Tortoise Hatchlings for sale on Kingsnake a couple years back.. they were going for $500??? I am not joking..



leafeater said:


> wait.. what? Im so lost. You cant sell those in the states legally. Are you out of the country?
> http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/huntwild/wild/species/txtort/
> 
> Seeing all of them together they do look like berlandieri
> ...


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## armandoarturo (Mar 3, 2011)

Ive been searching around and I found out that the genus gopherus embodies two separate species complexes... berlandieri and gopherus agassizzi are in the agassizii group. 
The other one its the polyphermus group, wich has Gopherus polyphermus and Gopherus flavomarginatus..

I searched around the internet to read more about flavomarginatus, and found out that they are from north of mexico... (Chihuahua State), wich is located under Texas...
I dont really know anything about them, but it seems that they are the biggest ones... People calls them â€œla tortuga grande del desiertoâ€œ, wich means the big tortoise from the desert...

hmm.. as far as i know, animals of the same genus can interbreed...
I wonder if their offspring would be sterile...
does anyone know this?


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## kimber_lee_314 (Mar 4, 2011)

I keep three Texas torts - one of them might be a mix. Here is a pic of my male - he was in the shade so it's not the best pic, but the only one I could find right now. Mine all have darker eyes than any of my desert tortoises.


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## egyptiandan (Mar 5, 2011)

I will have to do something on the differences of all 4 _Gopherus _species. 
Actually Texas tortoises are legal to sell here in the states as long as they don't come from Texas or California.

Danny


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## Shelly (Mar 5, 2011)

Here are some pictures from my other thread, of what is apparently my new Desert/Texas hybrid.




Is the big nose part of the Texas thing as well?


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## armandoarturo (Mar 6, 2011)

egyptiandan said:


> I will have to do something on the differences of all 4 _Gopherus _species.
> Actually Texas tortoises are legal to sell here in the states as long as they don't come from Texas or California.
> 
> Danny



That would be very helpful!
let me know If you need any pictures, I have tons xD


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