# worried about my tortoise's strange behavior



## FujiBaird (Mar 23, 2015)

For the last 5-6 days, my young tortoise has been acting strange. She has been pumping her limbs in and out horizontally in a strange way, rubbing her face with her front left leg (though there is nothing on her face/eye and her coco coir substrate is quite moist), and she opens her mouth for every 10th or 20th breath. 3 days ago, I came home to find her flipped over on her back -- I'm not sure how long she had been like that, though she acted mostly normal once she was put right side up. She has been eating, though her appetite seems a little bit decreased; she is drinking more water than usual, though never in her daily soak; and she seems somewhat agitated and skittish.

She was recently treated for pinworms but was just given a clean bill of health.

I am especially worried because and her behavior sounds a lot like this: http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/what-is-wrong-with-my-hermanns.9539/


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## christinaland128 (Mar 23, 2015)

It sounds like your tortoise is breathing. They bob or bounce to pump air in and out since they don't have expandable ribcages. http://www.tortoiselibrary.com/basics-2/tortoise-anatomy/

And torts will itch their face or wipe their eyes just to clear debris or simply itch.


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## Robertchrisroph (Mar 23, 2015)

Hello and sorry your baby don't feel well. I believe this is due to her flipping herself. This is only a quest, while the baby was upside down I bet she used her head and everything she had to try and flip back over. Ive read that the lungs can get hurt from being upside down to. @yvonne can tell she's good at respiratory things and other things lol


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## FujiBaird (Mar 23, 2015)

Robertchrisroph said:


> Hello and sorry your baby don't feel well. I believe this is due to her flipping herself. This is only a quest, while the baby was upside down I bet she used her head and everything she had to try and flip back over. Ive read that the lungs can get hurt from being upside down to. @yvonne can tell she's good at respiratory things and other things lol



Thanks! The weird behavior started before the flip, so it's all a bit of a mystery... Sounds almost like pneumonia symptoms. :/


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## FujiBaird (Mar 23, 2015)

I brought her into the vet and he agreed that she seems to have some sort of lung or throat irritation. A throat culture was negative for bacteria, so the plan is to up her temps a little and monitor, and get an x-ray if her symptoms persist or worsen.


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## crimson_lotus (Mar 23, 2015)

De-worming can really stress a tortoise out, so be careful. Stress itself can cause symptoms and even illness. How old is your tortoise?


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## Jodie (Mar 23, 2015)

Upping the temps and watching her is, in my opinion, an excellent strategy. Best of luck.


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## Altah (Mar 23, 2015)

How have her feces been? What did they use to treat the pin worms/ how many treatments were there? I agree with Jodie upping the temps wont hurt for a little bit.


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## FujiBaird (Mar 24, 2015)

Altah said:


> How have her feces been? What did they use to treat the pin worms/ how many treatments were there? I agree with Jodie upping the temps wont hurt for a little bit.



There were 2 rounds of 4 panacur treatments (one a day), each about 10 days apart. The last dose was about 2 weeks ago, and a follow-up fecal was negative. They tested it again today and it was also negative. Stool has been normal, no more dead worms passing. 

Here's a video of some of her weird leg movements. It appears that she's scratching her neck, but she will also just lay there and swing that arm back and forth in the air as though she is digging. She also will pump her back left leg in and out horizontally. Both of those movements seem agitated, not like a relaxed stretch.


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## peasinapod (Mar 24, 2015)

Is there maybe aomething stuck in her throat which could irritate her?


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## Altah (Mar 24, 2015)

Take a really close look at her head and face look for any swelling, redness, cuts, irritation. It seems pretty consistent of the left side in the video so I'm wondering if she has a wound or aural abscess forming


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## FujiBaird (Mar 24, 2015)

peasinapod said:


> Is there maybe aomething stuck in her throat which could irritate her?



This is our primary concern. We took her to the vet and he did a brief oral examination and said it looked clear. He said because she is eating and passing stool and urine normal it didn't seem necessary to do any aggressive tests. He said the next step would either be xray (which may still not show the irritant if its small) or putting her under anesthesia and using an endoscope. 



Altah said:


> Take a really close look at her head and face look for any swelling, redness, cuts, irritation. It seems pretty consistent of the left side in the video so I'm wondering if she has a wound or aural abscess forming



We have both done pretty thorough examinations of her skin area (so did the vet and the techs), but havent seen anything noticeable. However, this leads me to my main question...

I know many people recommend orchid bark as substrate (Roma has a coco coir/orchid bark mixture), however she frequently wakes up with pieces of orchid bark in her shoulder joint (which could attribute to scratches/irritation...even if not noticeable to the human eye), plus the vet said the orchid bark could be swallowed and cause throat irritations. Any opinion on this?


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## Robertchrisroph (Mar 24, 2015)

True. I am always seeing substrate in my kings mouth. it just happens, so we should Just plan on this happening, this is the reason I would only use what can be swallowed without them hurting themselves like something they are allowed to eat. I'm no pro, but I am a parent. Lol


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## Altah (Mar 25, 2015)

I mean sure she could have swallowed it but they swallow all kinds of weird stuff. My baby sulcata probably swallows coconut coir every day without issue. I'd at this point just monitor. Make sure she's still eating and drinking and doesn't seem completely miserable of it continues or worsens then I'd do the endoscopic examination


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