# new mom to 2 little CDTs in need of indoor enclosure advice!



## erickabevans (Apr 28, 2013)

Hello,

I was given 2 hatching california desert tortoise's in january, they where about a month old when i got them. They where about the size of a quarter and they where the only ones that survived. I was told to keep them in a repitile aquarium with the fake cloth grass stuff (dont know what its called) and some timothy hay for bedding with a shallow water dish and to feed them spring mix. I've also been giving them some weeds and dandylions They also havr a very expensive light I think its heat&Uvb. One has been growing very fast and is active the other is growing much slower but is pretty active.

Ok... so thats the history now here are my guestions... I've noticed that they pace around a lot and are constantly trying to climb out or borrow under its sad watching them struggle. I was told not to put and dirt/bark in because it can hurt them but I feel like they would be more comfortable. I was told to not give them a "house" cause they will hide out too much. After reading other threads I get the impression that they need a "house" with a humid bedding and a much bigger enclosure. Any help will be greatly appreciated, I just want to do it right since they are so little and fragile. 

Shelly & Chompers mama 

P.s, excuse the typos its hard on my tablet lol


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## Jacqui (Apr 28, 2013)

Hi and welcome! Congrats on your still pretty new youngin's. What size aquarium are they in now? I would not be having them in anything less then a 40 gal breeder. One thing that really popped out at me is the use of the reptile carpet. I would suggest getting them on something like soil or bed-a-beast (coir) with a small amount of sand mixed in (less then 20%) or a combo of all of them which is kept damp. The dirt will not hurt them and instead will allow them to have some humidity in theirs enclosure and be able to dig down into it. Do they have a hide or two? The hides give them a place to get out of the light and to hide. Young tortoise need a place to hide and relax all the while feeling safe and secure (plus once more more humidity there normally) What temps do you have them at? The light, how bright is it, what type and how long each day do you have it on?


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## Yvonne G (Apr 28, 2013)

Hi Ericka, and welcome to the Forum!

You have a couple of my very favorite tortoise. I just love the desert tortoises.

Like Jacqui said, your babies need hiding places. They are prey and as such stay out of sight as much as possible.

You can keep baby tortoises in a large plastic tub until they are able to be set up outside. ANd when you do set them up outside, because they are so small, you probably should have some sort of wire lid over their habitat to keep them safe from birds.

I don't know if you've seen this thread:

http://www.tortoiseforum.org/thread-65798.html


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## Tom (Apr 28, 2013)

Hello and welcome. I would suggest:
1. As large of an enclosure as you can find. Cement mixing tubs or large plastic tubs work well.
2. A separate enclosure for each one. These are solitary, territorial animals. The behavioral dynamics of a pair means one will almost always suffer.
3. Some real substrate. Coco coir, orchid bark, peat, regular clean yard dirt, planting soil if you can find some with no additives. Unlike Jacqui I recommend against any sand, especially with this species, as they are very prone to intestinal sand impactions. More so than other species.
4. Soak these babies in a tub of shallow warm water every day for the next 6-12 months. After that you can start skipping occasional days. Once they get some size and age on them, you can begin to taper off and soak less and less as they near adulthood.
5. Offer a humid hide. This will help keep them hydrated, and also help their shells develop and grow properly.
6. Your diet sounds okay so far, but try for a wider variety of weeds and some leaves like mulberry, rose, hibiscus and grape vine leaves. Also add some occasional spineless opuntia pads. For grocery store foods, try some endive and escarole, in addition to all the other stuff.
7. Make a safe outdoor enclosure for these guys. There are lots of ideas for how to do this safely in my signature. Just click and read. It can be as simple as a big plastic kiddie pool from WalMart. If you can get them outside in the sunshine just for an hour or so two or three times a week, you won't need any of those indoor artificial UV bulbs. All you'll need is a warm bulb for basking indoors. In my opinion Desert Tortoises, more than other species, seem to really NEED sunshine and exercise in a large outdoor enclosure. Best case in my opinion would be to section off a weedy portion of your backyard, make a cinder block rectangle, and then make a wire cover with a 2x4 frame. There is a whole threads on this in my signature. Then you can buy some seed mix, water a portion of the enclosure, and your tortoises can graze "naturally", while getting some much need sun in a safe environment. Just click the links in my signature for a detailed "How To..." thread with pics and demonstrations. For seed mix, my friends Tyler and Sarah at tortoisesupply.com have an excellent "Testudo Seed Mix". I use it for all my species, including DTs.

Hope this all helps. Come back with lots of questions for us.


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## erickabevans (Apr 28, 2013)

Thank you all. I think it is a 40gal and I have the light set for 12hrs a day. Not sure how bright but I know it is a uv bulb. Im going to go today and find a bigger container for them and get some of the substrate you guys recomened. Right now they have no hides cause I was told to not put one in there but ill get that today. When you say humid in the hide how do I do this? Im also going to set up the kiddy pool up outside I think that is such a great idea while they are small. Im so glad I found this forum! Onviously t he person giving me advice needed some advice themself lol. I thought my tank was lacking they just didnt seem as happy as they could be. But i have taken them outside a few times (fully supervised) and they loved it! Now I feel bad for my friends tortoise, she has him on rabbit pellets with just a water and food bowl. Her isnt very active


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## Tom (Apr 28, 2013)

You need to know what king of light you are using and what the temps directly below it are. This is VERY important. Life and death important.

To make a humid hide, simply cut a door hole out of a plastic shoe box, add some damp substrate, and sink it into the substrate on the warm side of the enclosure near the basking lamp.

There are links in my signature for all this stuff. Its written for sulcatas and leopards, but I house CDT babies exactly the same.

Especially click the first link. It will help you.


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## erickabevans (Apr 28, 2013)

Ok so I read all your threads and I think im ready to head to the store and put this all together. So for the light I will get a che and a spot light bulb. So you put the spot light bulb and CHE on the same side? The spot light is on for 12 hrs how long do you leave thw CHE on for? Im also going to get a temp gauge/prob. Ill let you know how it goes thanks for all the help. My little ones are going to be so happy!


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## Jacqui (Apr 28, 2013)

The CHE is usually only used at night, but can be used during the day also if it is needed to keep temps up. If you get a child's wading pool for outside, be sure to put some holes into the bottom for drainage.


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## erickabevans (Apr 28, 2013)

So I have it all set up now with some soil and peat moss and damped it. They have a hide and I have a temp/humidity reader. But now they are both eating rhe dirt is that ok?


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## ascott (Apr 28, 2013)

> be sure to put some holes into the bottom for drainage.



as well as a bunch of shady cool spots and the substrate should be deep enough for them to be able to dig down into it if they need to....and if you are going to run damp substrate, with this species especially, then please be sure to not let the temps (at night as well) fall below 80 degrees....wet and warm=good, wet and cold= ailing tort....

Nibbling the substrate is not unusual...but just make sure that they are not making a meal of it....also, be sure that they remain really well hydrated and this will help to keep any impaction at bay while they are sampling the soil....you can soak each day for minimum of 30 minutes as well as spraying water onto their food and once a day give them some type of food that is high in water content (red leaf, green lead or romaine lettuce--again, part of their diet and not main/only part)...


uhhhh, where are the pics of them....*foot tapping on ground, waiting*


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## mike taylor (Apr 28, 2013)

Yep ,I think them helpers need some pictures. It's the right thing to do so do it. L.O.L.


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## Tom (Apr 28, 2013)

I'd use a flood bulb, not a spot. Spot concentrate too much heat in one spot and it dries out their carapace which can contribute to pyramiding. A flood bulb spreads the heat out some more.

Use a thermometer and adjust the height of the bulb and fixture to get a basking temp near 100. I'd do the heat lamp on one side and the CHE over the middle. Keep the humid hide somewhere warm.

Run the CHE on a thermostat. It will be "on" 24/7, but the thermostat will turn it on and off to maintain the temperature you set. I'd go 75 for a baby CDT with humidity.


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## erickabevans (Apr 28, 2013)

Heres what I got done so far not done but looking good. I could only get shelly to pose for me chomper is enjoying his new house so I didnt want to disturb him.

This will be a temporary home until I get each of them there own big dream house  what do you think?


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## Tom (Apr 28, 2013)

What I think:
1. The substrate is a little wetter than I'd keep it for a DT, but I'd just let it dry out a bit.
2. Gotta ditch the hay with damp substrate. It will mold and that's bad.
3. The enclosure looks super cool and interesting, but those hides with the big open mouths will not function very well as humid hides. There may be enough humidity in there with the damp substrate to prevent pyramiding in this species. Only time will tell. Pyramiding is really hard to stop once it starts, but its pretty easy to prevent. Your call there. Everyone's enclosure is a little different.
4. And of course everyone who knows me is waiting for me to tell you... "The enclosure is too small". I'd get them in something bigger as soon as you can. If you build a nice big safe enclosure outside for them and they only spend the night in there, it will work for a while, but they need room to move.


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## erickabevans (Apr 28, 2013)

Yeah it got a little damper than planned... I will ditch the hay too. Im planning on getting the new enclosure s set up next weekend but wanted to "practice" with this one. Its been nice and warm here lately so I plan to get the pool set up tomorrow so they can start spending their days outside. Thanks for all your help!


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## Tom (Apr 28, 2013)

You are awesome. I hope you have great success with your babies!


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