# Mold!!



## Marty333 (Nov 16, 2010)

Mold/Fungus has recently started growing in Chevy's enclosure. What should I do? Should I buy new substrate. At least I know that I am keeping his enclosure moist enough  It first started in his humid hide but now it has spread! Here are pics of what it looks like










So what do you think? Also Sorry for posting so many threads I guess Im just very curious.


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## LindaF (Nov 16, 2010)

Your love of your little tort is heartwarming. I don't have a sulcata so I won't give you advice of best substrate for him. When you find out what is best I would suggest a good cleaning of the bin and then a change of the substrate. I too had a problem and once I switched my red foot to cypress mulch and didn't wet it so much all was good. You might want to check Chevy's plastron and make sure he doesn't have a touch of shell rot/fungus. That is what happened to me as well. I felt like the worsest tortoise mommy ever! It can be difficult finding that right mix of humid / damp enough without causing fungus/mold to grow. Good luck. You are doing good to catch all this early and find the solution.


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## kimber_lee_314 (Nov 16, 2010)

I'd switch it out - but just let the moldy stuff sit in the sun for a few days and dry up. You should be able to reuse it.


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## Maggie Cummings (Nov 16, 2010)

You need to stir it up with your hand daily. Keep the humid hide humid, but I always stir up the rest of the substrate and allow the top layer to dry out some, then pour water over it again. Stir it up, let the top layer dry, then pour water over it again...


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## PeanutbuttER (Nov 16, 2010)

I had a bunch of sphagnum moss get moldly like this once. It happened overnight! Anyhow, if it were me I would just throw it out. Yes, you probably could dry it out, kill the mold, and call it good but I would feel a little weird putting something that was moldly back his enclosure. One of those better safe than sorry things.

On a side note, I learned in class the other day that when people come to clean mold out of houses, they use the gas that comes from dry ice. I don't remember if it suffocates the mold or if it just freezes them, but I thought that was a cool little tidbit


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## ALDABRAMAN (Nov 16, 2010)

Remove it and get new, simple fix.


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## Marty333 (Nov 16, 2010)

I am do what Maggie say until I can get my hands on some new substrate. Also can it harm chevy?


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## stells (Nov 16, 2010)

One thing i would look at are your temperatures... some molds will grow if it is cold and damp... if you are going to have a whole enclosure moist you need to make sure that the temps aren't to low in any part of the enclosure... no tortoise likes the cold and damp... your temps may be fine but just thought i would add that in... if it happens overnight its likely that nighttime temps are too low... 

I've had it happen when i was setting up my tortoise shed... the tortoises weren't in there at the time and i had no night heat set up and running but set up the enclosures... went out the next day after a cold night and there was mold everywhere

Mold spores can possibly cause respiratory problems... so i would change it all out...


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## Marty333 (Nov 16, 2010)

Alrighty thank you so much I will see if my dad can pick something up from work. Is organic soil good substrate 
for sulcatas?


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## PeanutbuttER (Nov 16, 2010)

Mold is nasty stuff. I would be worried about it being toxic. Some molds commonly found in homes emit toxins and in a sufficient amount the home is evacuated. I'm not saying that this is that mold (specifically I'm thinking of black mold) but you never know what the heck it is.


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## Yvonne G (Nov 16, 2010)

I don't know why, because I've never used it, but I just don't like the coconut husk chips.

Thanks, Kelly for your insight on the cold/mold thing. I didn't know that. It will be a good indicator from now on that my habitats are too cold.

Also, mold will grow on any left-over food or poop, so keep it clean too.


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## Marty333 (Nov 16, 2010)

Can I do a mixture of organic soil and play sand. I know sand can cause impaction but I feed him out of his enclosure and his food is kept on a nice big rock. Also they live in a sandy environment in the wild so I dont see what the big issue would be.


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## Yvonne G (Nov 16, 2010)

In the wild, the dirt is packed down hard just like it is at your house. Unless someone has lightened it up with a shovel, its packed down. Also, in the wild, they don't eat their food off the ground. They bite it off of stems and blades. And its usually not wet like the food WE feed them. Wet food causes the sand to stick to it.

For such a small tortoise, you don't need much substrate. Can you buy a bag of cypress mulch (Jungle bed, Forest Floor, Cypress Bed) at the pet store? Its a little expensive at about $8 a bag, but one bag is probably all you'd need.

Lots of people use soil as substrate. If that's what you want to use, go for it.


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## Marty333 (Nov 16, 2010)

emysemys said:


> In the wild, the dirt is packed down hard just like it is at your house. Unless someone has lightened it up with a shovel, its packed down. Also, in the wild, they don't eat their food off the ground. They bite it off of stems and blades. And its usually not wet like the food WE feed them. Wet food causes the sand to stick to it.
> 
> For such a small tortoise, you don't need much substrate. Can you buy a bag of cypress mulch (Jungle bed, Forest Floor, Cypress Bed) at the pet store? Its a little expensive at about $8 a bag, but one bag is probably all you'd need.
> 
> Lots of people use soil as substrate. If that's what you want to use, go for it.



Is soil okay? Im sure he would love to dig into it


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## Yvonne G (Nov 16, 2010)

If anyone wants to use soil or sand, just be sure to keep the tortoise well hydrated. The combination of no water and swallowing dirt/sand is usually why they get impacted.


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## Marty333 (Nov 16, 2010)

Okay thank you so much yvonne!

One more quick question is Cypress mulch from Home Depot ok? Its only 1.88 for 2 cubic feet of cypress mulch.


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## Balboa (Nov 16, 2010)

I Love soil substrates Marty, but for some reason, I don't know if I would use them for a baby. With a bio-active soil you're right, you never have to worry about mold, all the little critters eat it. You have to be alright with all the little critters though. That's where springtails that people freak out over come from. They eat mold.

Cypress Mulch is probably the best thing going for a moist substrate other than soil.

rofl I type toooo slow

I wish we had cypress mulch at our local HD and yes that should be fine


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## Maggie Cummings (Nov 16, 2010)

What I suggested should only be done after you've started with new substrate and I didn't say that. I agree with Kelly that mold spores can cause RI. So AFTER you get a new clean substrate do what I said before and I apologize for not thinking to say that before...


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## Becki (Nov 16, 2010)

Just curious Marty...why do you feed him outside of his enclosure?


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## Marty333 (Nov 16, 2010)

Becki said:


> Just curious Marty...why do you feed him outside of his enclosure?



Well I usually feed him after I soak him so I just put him on my desk with the many options and after I put some food in the enclosure with him so if he is still hungry he can have some munchies. When he gets bigger I am going to drop the habit but I think it is a good bonding time 

Also guys what about gravel my dad has something against mulch because he says cypress mulch molds to fast and he is deadset on gravel! Also no dirt. I was thinking larger gravel and some sand to add firmness. I know sands not a good choice but its the only option I have for now


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## PeanutbuttER (Nov 16, 2010)

Cypress mulch doesn't mold fast.  I think he is mistaken. That is actually one of the best parts of cypress mulch. You can keep it wet and it won't mold or get musty. Make sure you get the 100% cypress and not a mix. 

Gravel isn't ideal. It has no way to hold humidity. If it's a small enough gravel he might even try to eat it, which is not that great for him.


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## Marty333 (Nov 16, 2010)

Thats what I am saying! But my dad uses cypress mulch for gardening and such and he says it molds fast maybe its the home depot kind im not sure


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## Yvonne G (Nov 16, 2010)

Hi Marta:

I know you're supposed to have respect for your parents, however, does he know more than we do about turtles and tortoises? No disrespect intended. All people can't know everything there is to know about everything. That's why you're here, right? To learn. And we're here to share with you what we've already learned through hard knocks and experience. Orchid bark and cypress mulch are the two best substrates I've ever used. It DOESN'T mold or turn sour. You can wet it and keep it wet and it stays good. Read the list of ingredients on the bag at Home Depot. If it doesn't contain anything besides cypress mulch, its a good thing to buy...and cheap at the price!! A big bag like that will last you for several years.


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## Annieski (Nov 16, 2010)

Marty--I used coir[spelling?] fiber for Morty. It comes in a compressed block and when you put the block in warm water--it swells and makes quite a bit of substrate. I would only put about a 2" deep layer at the bottom of the box and I would add more when I needed to[after general cleaning]. You can add water when you think it is too dry---and I never had a mold problem because I was always "fixing" and " mixing". You can "spot spray" the top layer and it is firm enough for babies to walk on easily. It isn't that expensive and last a long time. And if you do put food in the enclosure--put it on a piece of flat stone--that will keep some of the substrate from mixing with the food.


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## Marty333 (Nov 16, 2010)

emysemys said:


> Hi Marta:
> 
> I know you're supposed to have respect for your parents, however, does he know more than we do about turtles and tortoises? No disrespect intended. All people can't know everything there is to know about everything. That's why you're here, right? To learn. And we're here to share with you what we've already learned through hard knocks and experience. Orchid bark and cypress mulch are the two best substrates I've ever used. It DOESN'T mold or turn sour. You can wet it and keep it wet and it stays good. Read the list of ingredients on the bag at Home Depot. If it doesn't contain anything besides cypress mulch, its a good thing to buy...and cheap at the price!! A big bag like that will last you for several years.



Well I tell them that these people have been keeping tortoises for many many years and he hasn't. I think he gets all know it all - ish


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## PeanutbuttER (Nov 16, 2010)

Yvonne, I completely forgot about orchid bark.

If he says no to cypress mulch, see if he can pick up orchid bark for you instead. It's very similar as far as being a good substrate goes. Maybe he'll have less strong of an objection to it.


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## Marty333 (Nov 16, 2010)

PeanutbuttER said:


> Yvonne, I completely forgot about orchid bark.
> 
> If he says no to cypress mulch, see if he can pick up orchid bark for you instead. It's very similar as far as being a good substrate goes. Maybe he'll have less strong of an objection to it.



My dad actually had a stronger objection to that he says it is way to expensive! Can someone please come pick me up and take me to the store because I doubt my dads going to take me.


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## bettinge (Nov 16, 2010)

I was in the same boat as you not too many moons ago, not knowing what is the best sub-straight! I have now hatched and raised many Hermanns on nothing but damp Cypress. I love it for several reasons: 1) It holds moisture 2) It does not mold (however food and poop molds quickly on it). 3) Its cheap 4) I even put big chunk's in for hatchlings as I feel the rough terrain is good for them. 5) Every month or so I bake it to kill any fruit flies that start to develop.

Respect your father, but take the forums advice on this subject, IMO.


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## Marty333 (Nov 16, 2010)

My dad wants something that is reusable he says he can clean gravel off but with mulch you have to throw it out once it starts to mold. He still doesn't believe me about it not molding. Ugh I wish my dad would just listen!


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## Laura (Nov 16, 2010)

rocks can kill if he eats them. you can re use the dirt if you bake it.. but does he want it in his oven? 
toss it out in the garden, dont throw it away.. lost of uses.. but any food left behind might rot.. poop with just fertilize!


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## Edna (Nov 16, 2010)

Mold such as what you show in you pictures is very easy to stop, just by stirring or fluffing the bedding. I have had cypress mulch in my enclosures for months, WET, with no mold growing in it. One of my enclosures has the lid on it with just a few holes for heat and light, and the humidity runs above 80% during the day, 99% over night. That enclosure includes cypress mulch, spagnum moss, an old piece of cottonwood bark, moss and plants but no mold. Torty's enclosure has cypress mulch, sphagnum moss, dead leaved, and a new piece of bark. That bark has mold on it similar to what you show every morning, and as soon as I turn the lights on and open up Torty's hide so he'll come out and join the family, the mold disappears. Mold is a healthy part of the natural process of decay, and most molds are not harmful at all. I also tolerate the little bugs that do clean-up duty in his bedding.

Whoa! Here's a thought! Marta lives where cypress trees live, and possibly the organisms for decaying cypress are present in her yard, where they are not present where I live. Any chance it could make that big a difference? Maybe her dad is right about the cypress! But not about the gravel.


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## PeanutbuttER (Nov 16, 2010)

TortyQueen said:


> Whoa! Here's a thought! Marta lives where cypress trees live, and possibly the organisms for decaying cypress are present in her yard, where they are not present where I live. Any chance it could make that big a difference? Maybe her dad is right about the cypress! But not about the gravel.



Interesting thought. I hadn't considered that at all.


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## Marty333 (Nov 16, 2010)

Maybe everything decays a lot faster here. What about the eco earth blocks?


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## Maggie Cummings (Nov 16, 2010)

Marty333 said:


> Becki said:
> 
> 
> > Just curious Marty...why do you feed him outside of his enclosure?
> ...



I have cypress mulch as the substrate in 10 inside habitats and Queenie's in Bob's shed and not one of them has ever gotten mold. The only time I have ever gotten mold was underneath the water dish in Fat Nat's tort table and I think that was because I didn't move the dish much, she doesn't drink from it or soak in it so I just kept filling the dish without moving it, so the mold was my fault.


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## Yvonne G (Nov 16, 2010)

Maybe your dad is talking about a different kind of cypress mulch. The kind we buy for substrate is actually little chunks of wood and bark.


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## Balboa (Nov 16, 2010)

I get where your Dad's coming from, gravel is great for rinsing and re-using, but DEADLY to little torts, and has terrible traction which leads to developemental problems with the legs.

If he's dead set against mulch, a blend of either top soil, sphagnum peet, or coco coir and sand is your next best bet. Many folks actually prefer that over mulches. Thats essentially what I use, except mines "activated" with live dirt and bugs, you don't have to go that far. Peet is probably my top pick as its cheaper than dirt (funny huh?) and highly mold resistant. Topsoil from gardens centers can be tricky, as they are mostly just really broken down mulch, not much actual mineralized dirt present.

50/50 play sand/peet 

If that's a no go, well I think I'd rather see a reptile carpet than gravel.

And yes, I think Tortyqueen might be on to something. That makes total sense. Cypress Mulch doesn't mold for most of the country because the correct mold spores to attack it are missing.

Orchid Bark is spendy stuff, but if you can get Douglas Fir Mulch, that's the same thing, and could very well be highly mold resistant in florida. Of course, I don't really notice that stuff molding here, and its native to my area, so theory may be no-good either LOL


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## Marty333 (Nov 16, 2010)

I like the play sand peet idea my dad has an abundant amount of peet moss and sand I will just have to use gloves with the peet moss because Im allergic to sphagnum moss which peet is basically made out of


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## Marty333 (Nov 17, 2010)

what about just plain peeat moss?


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## jackrat (Nov 17, 2010)

TortyQueen said:


> Mold such as what you show in you pictures is very easy to stop, just by stirring or fluffing the bedding. I have had cypress mulch in my enclosures for months, WET, with no mold growing in it. One of my enclosures has the lid on it with just a few holes for heat and light, and the humidity runs above 80% during the day, 99% over night. That enclosure includes cypress mulch, spagnum moss, an old piece of cottonwood bark, moss and plants but no mold. Torty's enclosure has cypress mulch, sphagnum moss, dead leaved, and a new piece of bark. That bark has mold on it similar to what you show every morning, and as soon as I turn the lights on and open up Torty's hide so he'll come out and join the family, the mold disappears. Mold is a healthy part of the natural process of decay, and most molds are not harmful at all. I also tolerate the little bugs that do clean-up duty in his bedding.
> 
> Whoa! Here's a thought! Marta lives where cypress trees live, and possibly the organisms for decaying cypress are present in her yard, where they are not present where I live. Any chance it could make that big a difference? Maybe her dad is right about the cypress! But not about the gravel.


There are cypress everywhere in SE Arkansas,many close to my house.I've never had any problems with my mulch molding,inside or out.And it stays wet and never gets stirred unless a female is digging in it.


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