# Tips for building Night Time lock boxes



## Team Gomberg (Jan 24, 2013)

I have an outdoor enclosure that I am modifying to house a Russian tortoise.

I have decided not to make a lid for the entire enclosure. I like the look of an open pen, its very large at 20'x6' and has 2 trees that would have presented difficulty in trying to frame.

What I would like to do is make a box to go inside the enclosure. One that I could secure the tortoise in at night. Lock it. Then open the door in the morning to let the tortoise out.

I'd like to get it right the first time so can you give me any tips? Point out things I have missed? Helpful advice? 

I have seen many boxes made for sulcatas and leopard. But I want it to be suited for a Russian. Here in so cal I shouldn't need to heat it. And ideally if I could make it so the tortoise could burrow and brumate in this box, I'd like that too.

Here are my thoughts.. 

24"Lx 12"Wx12"H. I'd make the walls and most of the top solid. I'm thinking a 4" or so part of the top to be made with the wire mesh to let in morning light until I let the tort out. The entire top hinged so I have full access. Also a lock for the top. The door could hinge down as a mini ramp. Also, a lock for the door. 
At fist I thought about an open bottom so the russian could dig down to brumate. But then, what if it dug out of the box or a predator dug under and in. 
So what if I made the entire bottom of the wire mesh as well. Then it can't collect or puddle water. It can drain and be predator/escape proof. 

How deep would I want to/need to provide as a dig in area for the tortoise? 6"? more? 

I got this initial idea off of some pictures of night boxes that Kimber_Lee 314 posted. 
Kimber, if you see this I'd love to know what your box construction plans were!


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## Team Gomberg (Jan 25, 2013)

I tossed and turned all night in anticipation for what kind of tips I may find in the morning....

I was so sad to see none! lol

Silly me, I should have slept easy :/


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## sibi (Jan 25, 2013)

I haven't built my outdoor enclosure yet, but you have some of the same ideas that I was thinking of. The bottom of the box could be 3 feet down. Then, a heavy grade metal mesh that is rust proof could be the ground level. The top could have a portal with a good combination lock to secure it. This will serve as your entry point should you need to have quick or spot entry/inspection. The ramp door is the entry point for your tort and you can secure it each night. What think you?


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## Zamric (Jan 25, 2013)

I would say the bottom should be buried @ 1foot deep with a mesh (Wire cloth) across the bottom (to prvent deeper burming). 2' long a 1' wide should be big enough (how many Russians?) and I like the idea of a hinged lid on top and an access door for the torts but the top should be solid so no rain can come in.


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## Team Gomberg (Jan 25, 2013)

Zamric said:


> I would say the bottom should be buried @ 1foot deep with a mesh (Wire cloth) across the bottom (to prvent deeper burming). 2' long a 1' wide should be big enough (how many Russians?) and I like the idea of a hinged lid on top and an access door for the torts but the top should be solid so no rain can come in.



so 12inches deep would be enough for them..that seems ok. maybe 12inch above ground with a 6 or 8 inch high door?

its for 1 russian to start. eventually i'll add more but am going to make multiples of everything in the event of a separation. i plan to make 2 of these boxes from the start.

full solid lid would be great for rain.. what if i put a 2inch strip of the mesh on the side of the box above the door. then some light can come in during the morning while waiting for me to open the door.. ??


i'm aiming for the 1:3 ratio. but time will tell if that happens. i may get 1 or 2 and stop there...


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## N2TORTS (Jan 25, 2013)

Here are some enclosure idea's like you mention. The large area itself is fully wired ( caged in) , in one of the sections there is a hide that is made from old doors. It can be folded down for a ramp to allow you torts to walk out ,along with a hinged lid....so the top can completely open, allowing for easy access to them. All of these can remain "outside" but still provide a heated locked source for your shelled buddies.
Happy building ..........
JD~



















other outdoor hides can made to lock up too.......








or just hides that dont lock , that can remain in the " hut " yet provide an extra security of warmth and comfort.....


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## Moozillion (Jan 25, 2013)

WOWWWW!!! That thump you just heard was my jaw hitting the ground!!! FANTASTIC!!!!


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## N2TORTS (Jan 25, 2013)

Moozilion said:


> WOWWWW!!! That thump you just heard was my jaw hitting the ground!!! FANTASTIC!!!!



v^v^rampart v^v^rampart ... we have a 911...


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## Team Gomberg (Jan 25, 2013)

Great! Thanks for sharing! Can't wait to check out the pictures more closely on my computer 


I did notice one thing with your boxes. They all have floor level bottoms. 
They are exactly what i want to do except i want ones that a Russian can burrow in to brumate in safety.
Is this possible? Does any one do that?


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## Zamric (Jan 25, 2013)

Nice work! Looks like you've done that once or twice...


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## Team Gomberg (Jan 29, 2013)

JD, what do you put inside your boxes? is that hay? is that ok for me to use as well?




N2TORTS said:


> All of these can remain "outside" but still provide a heated locked source for your shelled buddies.



would a russian need the night box heated? here in my area of so cal, our nights are not often below 60 (not counting the winter) and since i would be using this box during spring, summer and fall i assumed i would not need a heat source. 
??


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## N2TORTS (Jan 29, 2013)

Team Gomberg said:


> JD, what do you put inside your boxes? is that hay? is that ok for me to use as well?
> 
> 
> 
> ...





I'm in SO Cal too ..... yes you will need heat . I'm not that well versed on Russians but Iâ€™m sure some folks will peep in. The hay you see in the one shot is " Timothy Hay" it was in a large sullies set up just for his night time resting area. It serves as a bedding , easy to clean ( throw it away) , cheap ....and Edible ... the larger sullies munch it . Again this is just a night time setup as all my animals have free roam and yards ... so they are outdoors nearly 365 a year. But rounded up nightly and put inside their "huts" 

JD~


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## Team Gomberg (Jan 29, 2013)

i, too plan to have my russian outdoors 24/7 with free roam of a 20'x6' planted pen. 

i want to use the box to lock him up at night. so should i use dirt? 

i hope someone can chime in about what heated temperature i need to set a night box at for a russian. 
*i know what to do for the leopard when the time comes... but everything says russians need the "cool down" at night and the 60 and 70 degree temps are ideal. so if the russian was never out below 60 would the box still need heat?


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## lynnedit (Jan 29, 2013)

OK, here is one of mine that is outside. It is not heated. The roof is insulated with rigid insulation, and a thin piece of paneling to protect it.
If the &%$# torts would have used it this year, they could have hibernated w/o heat as it is about 18" deep with topsoil/coir. 
It does not lock (yet) but would be easy to set up with a door that hinges to the side. And it could be any size, based on the side of the container sunk into the ground.







Later this week I can take pics (in daylight) of my Rubbermaid hide with a bulb for heat, modeled after Joe Heinen's 'deck box hide' on the Russian tortoise site.


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## Team Gomberg (Jan 29, 2013)

lynn this was very helpful for me to see!

i have seen Joe's deck box hide too


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## lynnedit (Jan 29, 2013)

My torts love this hide. (they just loved the greenhouse more as the weather cooled). I think the fact that the clearance is only about 8" appeals to them; like burrowing into a tunnel.
One tort when about 12" down for 2 weeks early last Spring as a pretend hibernation.
I did put a layer of drainage gravel beneath it and down the outside to ground level.


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## Team Gomberg (Jan 30, 2013)

i have one of these tubs, lots of gravel in a side yard too. 

i may copy this exact design  

thanks for these tips!


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## lynnedit (Jan 30, 2013)

The hard part is digging the hole right so that the top 6" of the tub is flush or a bit lower than the framing that sits on the ground. Dig deeper than you need and back fill with some gravel; which you can add/remove to get this right.
I measured, I think my door is only 5" high, even the big female can get in. 
So you have to notch out a door in the Rubbermaid to match the opening in the wood frame. I used 2"x6" framing, so there is about 1" of frame left on top of the door. You could also use 2"x8" wood. 
I also used small machine screws to hold the Rubbermaid to the frame on either side of the door.


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## mattgrizzlybear (Jan 30, 2013)

Easiest thing, lock with key. Never breaks, easy to open.


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## Team Gomberg (Feb 1, 2013)

i dug in the rubbermaid bin yesterday! i did a bigger hole and filled the bottom of the hole with gravel. it was back breaking! but i did it  

the bin is roughly 12x24. a little longer than 12 one way but a little less than 24 the other way. and i think it was around 16 deep... i need to measure another one i have for the exact numbers now, i forgot. 
it is flush with the ground so i wont cut a hole in it for the door. there is a small lip, enough to secure it to the box frame but not enough to need a doorway cut.

im going to hopefully work on the box frame today. i was planning for a 6x6 door based on Joe's recommendations. door that folds down to double as a ramp, locks up at night. hinge lid that also locks. 

i'll let ya know when i get more done and share some pictures 




mattgrizzlybear said:


> Easiest thing, lock with key. Never breaks, easy to open.



Are you referring to lynns rubbermaid box? I'm not sure..


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## lynnedit (Feb 1, 2013)

Wow you are industrious! Good idea to have it more flush with the ground except a lip. That way you can build your frame entrance as you like. I am glad that I made a slanted roof, off to one side away from the door, but not sure if you will need that or not.
Digging is back braking, nothing like it. But you are DONE.
Exciting!


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## Team Gomberg (Feb 1, 2013)

ok i dug in the tote. its 14"x22" and 14"deep. I have about 2" of gravel underneath it.










made the frame. it's 8" high.





made a lid. it over hangs on all sides





and will be on a hinge





I have to pull the frame back out because I plan to paint the wood, still need to make the tortoise door and will shingle the roof. The roof will slope backwards for rain run off. Also, I chose the location next to my husbands tool shed so in the future if I decide to make a heated box, I have easy access to do so.

Well here is my progress so far.. 

Thanks for the ideas!


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## lynnedit (Feb 1, 2013)

Wonderful job. You should be proud of yourself. Good thought about locating close to electricity if needed. With that set up you could always create a higher wood frame for a heat source (like a radiant heat panel). As I mentioned, though, my torts like them with a nice low clearance. 
It should stay nice and dry. I actually added some water to mine and mixed it in last summer, lol.

I think your tort will really like it.


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## Tom (Feb 1, 2013)

I've gotten some more great ideas from this thread. Thank you all.

My main concern is not the cold, but the summer heat. My plan is to build 24" cubes with a hinged lid and insulated sides and top. Then I want to sink these mostly in the ground with just the lid above ground and a tunnel to get into it. This will keep the temps down in the low 80s even during those 110+ summer days. I wanted them to have a dirt floor for the ability to burrow and get the humidity, but my experience with other burrowing species (not Russians) is that they will just continue digging down. I was going to have a solid plywood floor because of this, but now I think I will use a welded wire floor and back fill it with several inches of dirt.

Now I have to calculate what height to build the door at. Can't put it at the bottom if I'm going to have several inches of dirt for a floor.


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## janevicki (Feb 1, 2013)

I love the creativity of all the boxes shown here.

I will be needing to make a locking outside box also because we have possums and raccoons in our back yard. 

Thanks so much for sharing these great outside night time lock boxes!


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## Zamric (Feb 2, 2013)

Very Nicely Done! I can't wait to see the finished product!


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## lynnedit (Feb 2, 2013)

Tom, during the warm months, your torts may use your underground hides (why wouldn't they?). But they also might create their own burrows in summer, under shrubs or tree roots. Some of the woody shrubs like Rosemary work very well, also clumping grasses.
You won't mind the built hides being in the sun over winter as much, because that will protect somewhat from below freezing temps (do you get those?). 
In any case, I love your idea of the tunnel to the hide. Someone else made one of those for a tort, can't remember name right now. 
Will look forward to pics.

Heather, a couple of other ideas. If you want your frame to be even more secure, you can drive a stake in on the outside of each side, touching the side. Then screw this into the frame.
Also, you might consider an inch or two of gravel flush with the soil around the 3 sides of your tub, for the frame to rest on (rather than straight dirt, better for drainage and protecting the wood a bit).


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## N2TORTS (Feb 2, 2013)

Hereâ€™s a neat one â€¦..this is for a DT ..Imagine the largest Dog-Loo out there , well I took that and buried it 3â€™ down below grade level. Itâ€™s at a small incline and dirt ramp provided. Then on top of that I stacked â€œfeather weightâ€ lava rock in large boulders amongst smaller ones so everything was stable . The Outcome â€¦â€¦was a nice dry enclosure, buried down below grade which keeps temps more steady and an over-all natural appearance â€¦.there is even power run down there with small light down inside when needed. 




And now a side by side shot â€¦.. A mid size looâ€™ above ground and to the leftâ€¦.the 
â€œ buried man caveâ€ 






JD~


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## Team Gomberg (Feb 2, 2013)

JD, can you share a picture of inside the DT igloo? Id love to see if you are able!


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## N2TORTS (Feb 2, 2013)

Team Gomberg said:


> JD, can you share a picture of inside the DT igloo? Id love to see if you are able!



Well .... we would have to wait a bit .. this is at my Ex's home (but can be arranged,I'm sure) . Plus I'm sure someone is sleeping down there ....


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## MasterOogway (Feb 2, 2013)

I am enjoying this thread. Thanks for sharing the great ideas! I hope more keep coming.


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## Tom (Feb 2, 2013)

lynnedit said:


> You won't mind the built hides being in the sun over winter as much, because that will protect somewhat from below freezing temps (do you get those?).



Winter night temps occasionally drop below freezing here, but 2' underground, it will stay right around 50 all the time. We might have a few days that only get up to around 50 during winter, but its usually in the 60 or 70's every day, occasionally climbing into the 80s. Night temps above ground are usually 35-45 all winter long here. It was only 52 last night with the cloud cover holding the heat in.

My fear is that our winter temps will not be consistently cold enough, and I'll have to give them a short fridge hibernation from Dec to Feb. Outside of those three months, I think conditions here will be quite suitable for an outdoor group of russians.


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## lynnedit (Feb 2, 2013)

Tom said:


> Now I have to calculate what height to build the door at. Can't put it at the bottom if I'm going to have several inches of dirt for a floor.



D'oh, I was going to measure the door to my hides today and forgot. I have one female who is 7" and domed, she fits in amazingly small openings. Will try to measure them tomorrow!




Tom said:


> My fear is that our winter temps will not be consistently cold enough, and I'll have to give them a short fridge hibernation from Dec to Feb. Outside of those three months, I think conditions here will be quite suitable for an outdoor group of russians.



Oh, I see. True, 50 and above are not really hibernation temps. Still, Russians are amazingly adaptable; they may slow down over winter but not necessarily hibernate. If there are weeds to nibble on, and water, they will 'go down' and then bask and nibble when needed.


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## DesertGrandma (Feb 3, 2013)

This is a great thread y'all. Will definitely will go into my "favs."


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## lynnedit (Feb 3, 2013)

Me too.

BTW, the opening to my 'sunken Rubbermaid container with frame' is 4.5" high. Even my 7" female gets through. Just. Another one is 5" high. The smaller the opening, the harder for a predator to get through (extra precaution even with a hinged door).


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## Team Gomberg (Feb 3, 2013)

5" high huh...that's good to know. I'll be cutting the door this next week. What is your door width? I'm thinking 6" is enough.

I bought the paint today and the singles for the roof. 

I just need to finish battling off the flu then i can resume the project.

Ok, I'm off to suck down some more nyquil.


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## Tom (Feb 3, 2013)

lynnedit said:


> Oh, I see. True, 50 and above are not really hibernation temps. Still, Russians are amazingly adaptable; they may slow down over winter but not necessarily hibernate. If there are weeds to nibble on, and water, they will 'go down' and then bask and nibble when needed.



In your discussion here you made me consider something that has escaped me to this point. If days are in the 60s or 70s and sunny most of the time, and the night temps don't drop below 50 due to my underground boxes, they might just NOT hibernate at all. They will have the seasonal benefits of cooler and shorter days in winter, but temps would still be on the lower edge of functional for them since they will be able to warm up each day. Well most days anyway. They'd still have to hide out on the occasional cold rainy days, but we don't have a lot of those anyway. We have more 80 degree winter days than rainy ones.

Hmmm... So now I'm wondering what the result will be if they have NO hibernation ever. They will have a significant cooling period, but not so cold that they'd hibernate or have to quit eating. I know some people keep,them inside all year with a perpetual summer, and that doesn't seem to bother them, so I would speculate that a cooling period with shorter winter days would be more beneficial than a perpetual summer.


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## lynnedit (Feb 3, 2013)

Sorry to hear that, Heather! I will measure the width this week. The opening is a bit wider than high.




Tom said:


> Hmmm... So now I'm wondering what the result will be if they have NO hibernation ever. They will have a significant cooling period, but not so cold that they'd hibernate or have to quit eating. I know some people keep,them inside all year with a perpetual summer, and that doesn't seem to bother them, so I would speculate that a cooling period with shorter winter days would be more beneficial than a perpetual summer.



That's what I am kind of wondering, Tom. Perhaps they will just slow down. We already know from the hibernation thread that hibernation/no hibernation doesn't seem to connect to success in getting fertile eggs that hatch. Sometimes I think success may lie in giving them a good enough enclosure, adapting it to the climate and their patterns, and otherwise leaving them alone...


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## N2TORTS (Feb 3, 2013)

Heather for all this hard work I'm going to have to toss ya one of my work shirts!


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## Team Gomberg (Feb 4, 2013)

N2TORTS said:


> Heather for all this hard work I'm going to have to toss ya one of my work shirts!



woo hoo! thanks

(i think this explains why all your enclosures are so super, well done, fantastic and beautiful)


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## N2TORTS (Feb 4, 2013)

it's just a job ..... the other is a passion ~


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## lynnedit (Feb 4, 2013)

That we can relate to!


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## Team Gomberg (Feb 5, 2013)

N2TORTS said:


> it's just a job ..... the other is a passion ~



Well said


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## Team Gomberg (Feb 6, 2013)

The box is done! I'm having some trouble uploading the pics right now, but I'll add them once I can.

I caulked the corners, painted it an olive green color and used hickory colored shingles for the roof. I did paint the roof under the shingles, too. 

Hinges are on the top and the door. I just need to add the locks. So I guess it's "almost" done. 

The roof slopes backwards and off to the sides. Rain run off should be fine. The door is 5"high x 6"wide. I added another roof shingle for traction when the door is open.

I am no expert builder and my husband definitely could have done a much better job at it than I did.. but overall I like it. It's cute and will get the job done. I secured it with some screws after hammering it down into the dirt. It sits really low and based on your experience lynnedit, i'm hoping my future russian will like the low clearance as well. 

I piled up some dirt around the front and corners plus added some rock. Right outside the tortoise door is my mosaic walkway. Its slate tiles to make a cute garden pathway for the tortoise. I can also feed on it if needed and they can double as basking areas. 

Now let me try and get those pictures up!!...


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## shellibelli72 (Feb 6, 2013)

WOWEEEEE! That is incredible! 




N2TORTS said:


> Here are some enclosure idea's like you mention. The large area itself is fully wired ( caged in) , in one of the sections there is a hide that is made from old doors. It can be folded down for a ramp to allow you torts to walk out ,along with a hinged lid....so the top can completely open, allowing for easy access to them. All of these can remain "outside" but still provide a heated locked source for your shelled buddies.
> Happy building ..........
> JD~
> 
> ...


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## DesertGrandma (Feb 6, 2013)

Anxious to see your pics Heather. Also great ideas all of you for the underground cool spot. I am inspired. Now I know what to do with the plastic container I bought for a soaking tub that was too big to dump when filled with water. I will bury it underground.


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## Team Gomberg (Feb 6, 2013)

ok the pics are working now.. had to re boot my phone.

I have not yet put up the pen walls but that just works out for a better view of the house.













i did have to cut a little from the plastic tote lip.





added a little more dirt to the inside so the plastic tote lip is covered (at least for now)
also, the lid has that extra piece of wood on it and the shingles slope to the sides because of that. i figure it just is a little extra help.





the mosaic walkway i made covered by badly overgrown weeds and grass since no one is in there to eat them!





next up is assembling the walls. i finished painting it all today so that should happen soon. then i can finally let someone move in


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## lynnedit (Feb 6, 2013)

*round of applause*

Well done. Those shingles will settle in nicely. A little rain will come in the door when it is open, but that will help keep the soil inside a bit moist.


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## DesertGrandma (Feb 6, 2013)

Good job. Those overgrown weeds will soon be a thing of the past.


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## Zamric (Feb 6, 2013)

Nicely done!


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