# Smelly sulcata baby tort!!



## lisalove (Jan 21, 2011)

Ok, this is going to sound a bit bizarre!
My 4 month old baby sulcata, Nodder, suddenly smells like a barnyard animal who has joined the circus!!!
My husband tells me I have a very strong sense of smell, which is true, while I tell my husband his nose is for decoration purposes only-  -so I thought I would seek out a more knowledgeable opinion.
Also, it's not poop I'm talking about, it's his shell I smell(which I softly brush during soaks).
As of the last 5 days, I have started adding a little TNT on his food and that is the only change I have made. I feed Spring mix with a very small amount of grassland tortoise food sprinkled over it, cactus and other weeds as well. He also gets Mazuri 3 times a week with a sprinkle of calcium.
Also, his enclosure is kept very clean and doesn't smell.
Is this shell smell normal and what is it? Such a large odor for such little guy.
Thanks for helping.


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## Torty Mom (Jan 21, 2011)

Hmmmm that is very interesting. Crud, I wish I had read this before I went to our CTTC meeting tonight, I could have asked. The guy I sat next to has 4! Wish I had an answer for ya, I am sure someone in the know will be able to help you out!! Daisy Lou has some seriously stinky poo, for a lady! 

 Peep


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## zzzdanz (Jan 21, 2011)

The shell isn't soft at all is it?


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## lisalove (Jan 21, 2011)

zzzdanz said:


> The shell isn't soft at all is it?



No, not at all. 
The plastron has the normal 'baby' softness, but that's it.



Torty Mom said:


> Hmmmm that is very interesting. Crud, I wish I had read this before I went to our CTTC meeting tonight, I could have asked. The guy I sat next to has 4! Wish I had an answer for ya, I am sure someone in the know will be able to help you out!! Daisy Lou has some seriously stinky poo, for a lady!
> 
> Peep



Thanks Peep!!! 
Maybe next meeting.
He has stinky poo too, but as for the shell--the mystery continues.


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## zzzdanz (Jan 21, 2011)

hmmm..all I can picture is everyone running to sniff their Sully...Maybe he has gas


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## Tom (Jan 21, 2011)

There shouldn't be any smell to him. If its not something in the environment, it could be an indication of some sort of infection or abscess.


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## lisalove (Jan 21, 2011)

Tom said:


> There shouldn't be any smell to him. If its not something in the environment, it could be an indication of some sort of infection or abscess.



Absolutely no smell at all? That scares me  
No other signs of illness. Could there be an abscess I don't see if there is no swelling anywhere?
He seems very healthy, moves around great and eats great too. 
Going to bring him to vet tomorrow-very worried now.


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## lisalove (Jan 22, 2011)

zzzdanz said:


> hmmm..all I can picture is everyone running to sniff their Sully...Maybe he has gas



I'm hopeful after all of the sniffing, I'll get some feedback!


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## coreyc (Jan 22, 2011)

I sniffed mine no smell at all


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## Tom (Jan 22, 2011)

lisalove said:


> Tom said:
> 
> 
> > There shouldn't be any smell to him. If its not something in the environment, it could be an indication of some sort of infection or abscess.
> ...



The only thing they should smell like is their environment. So the substrate or poop if he has walked or laid in it. The actual tortoise shouldn't have any smell. When I sniff mine all I can smell is their substrate, whatever food they've been trudging through, or poop if they have any on them before their daily soak.


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## Yvonne G (Jan 22, 2011)

The only thing I could think of is that there's some fresh poop stuck in a crevice someplace. Give him a good soaking, then a close inspection to make sure he's not hiding a little present for you someplace.

Maybe the TNT has changed his metabolism in some way and he's just getting used to the new food. Send Joe at Carolina Pet Supply an email and ask him if anyone else has complained of this problem after switching to TNT.


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## lisalove (Jan 22, 2011)

Thanks! I sent an email to Joe. I thought the same thing about the TNT. Both top and bottom shell smell, and it's not an infection smell, so I'm a little less worried, but I'm posting pics I just took for you to check my little guy out (as best you can through pics). I may be a little paranoid, but do his legs look ok or a little puffy? Anything else you notice that I'm missing? Whew...stressful!
























Tom said:


> lisalove said:
> 
> 
> > Tom said:
> ...



I don't think I live far from you Tom--I may be knocking on your door to sniff your torts!!!!


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## Yvonne G (Jan 22, 2011)

I'm not a vet, but I think I'd be a little worried too. He seems to be retaining fluids and that coupled with him smelling might mean something wrong with his kidneys. I don't mean to scare you, and sometimes when stressed they do tend to "blow up" a bit, but I think a vet visit (with a qualified tortoise vet) might be in order.


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## lisalove (Jan 22, 2011)

I already have an appointment scheduled for first thing Monday morning.
Thanks Yvonne.


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## Tom (Jan 22, 2011)

Yeah, I noticed the same thing about the "puffiness" too. And I don't like the look of his eyes either. Good luck and please keep us posted. I'd love to hear what the vet has to say.


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## lisalove (Jan 22, 2011)

I thought he looked a little puffy. 
I will for sure post after my vet visit.


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## tortoisenerd (Jan 22, 2011)

Good call on the vet visit--that puffiness and coloring was the first thing I noticed. As for the smell--a tortoise shouldn't have a smell. In fact, everyone who visits our house is surprised our house doesn't smell like reptile. Its interesting that the smell and puffiness are likely related (since everything else typical seems to be ruled out). Poop can get stuck in some crazy crevices on the tort, but you'd notice the smell more on some areas of the tort than others. So, I'm stumped. Sometimes I have to take a wet paper towel to scrub out under the shell around the legs and tail and such. I don't think a soft brush is appropriate, but many use them. Good luck with the vet--hope you have a good tort specialist who can treat this aggressively.


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## lisalove (Jan 22, 2011)

tortoisenerd said:


> Good call on the vet visit--that puffiness and coloring was the first thing I noticed. As for the smell--a tortoise shouldn't have a smell. In fact, everyone who visits our house is surprised our house doesn't smell like reptile. Its interesting that the smell and puffiness are likely related (since everything else typical seems to be ruled out).
> 
> 
> Thank you for the info.
> ...


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## Kristina (Jan 22, 2011)

I know you didn't ask me, lol, but personally I wouldn't use the TNT daily. As long as your baby is getting a good varied diet, 1-2X weekly is plenty, in my opinion.


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## lisalove (Jan 22, 2011)

Just wanted to update-
Took Nodder to the vet and was told that he is overly hydrated. Only soak 3 times a week. They also wanted to give a vitamin injection which I declined. I have another appt for my vet first thing Monday still and will be going to her for sure.
He does feel a little heavy, so I think water retention does make sense.
Any thoughts?



lisalove said:


> Just wanted to update-
> Took Nodder to the vet and was told that he is overly hydrated. Only soak 3 times a week. They also wanted to give a vitamin injection which I declined. I have another appt for my vet first thing Monday still and will be going to her for sure.
> He does feel a little heavy, so I think water retention does make sense.
> Any thoughts?



UPDATED:

Just wanted to update-
Took Nodder to the vet and was told that he is overly hydrated. I should only soak 3 times a week instead of daily like I'm doing now. They also wanted to give a vitamin injection which I declined. I have another appt for my vet first thing Monday still and will be going to her for sure.
He does feel a little heavy, so I think water retention does make sense.
Any thoughts?


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## tortoisenerd (Jan 22, 2011)

Lisa: Hope someone else chimes in...first thought is that you need to find why he is retaining so much water, and find a solution...not just wait for it to go away and soak less (but I'm no expert!). How often and for how long were you soaking? Even daily for 15 minutes for a hatchling should be fine, and in fact, recommended by many (although personally I don't like the forced soaks). I kinda doubt any sort of reasonable amount of soaking could cause that sort of swelling and the way the skin looks. Good job saying no to the vitamin injection. So you went to an emergency vet but have your appointment still Monday? Sounds good.

On TNT & calcium & UVB: I think with UVB and sun you never need to supplement D3. For my two year old tort I alternate days of pure calcium and TNT over the food. I don't think you can overdose on the TNT in any reasonable amount because its just natural ground up stuff. Depending on your tort's age would determine a recommended calcium amount, but this really varies person to person as we all have our opinions (not too much data out there...except that recentish post that now I can't find). If hes getting hours of sun almost daily, the MVB is probably overkill, so if you just wanted to go to a regular bulb to save the money (as long as the sun exposure is maintained), thats an option.


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## TortieGal (Jan 23, 2011)

I agree with Tortoisenerd that doesn't make since. Look how wet Tom keeps his torts and has no problems of over hydrating or any shell rot. I am glad youÃ¢â‚¬â„¢re going to a different Vet soon. I'm no expert but did he check the liver?
Thanks for keeping us updated, Hope he gets better soon.


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## Torty Mom (Jan 23, 2011)

I agree, good call on the vitamin shot. Did the Vet have tortie experience?


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## lisalove (Jan 23, 2011)

Torty Mom said:


> I agree, good call on the vitamin shot. Did the Vet have tortie experience?



Yes-he has tortoises himself too. 
Looking forward to what my vet has to say tomorrow.


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## Kristina (Jan 23, 2011)

tortoisenerd said:


> I think with UVB and sun you never need to supplement D3.



This isn't always true. Tortoises seem to have some individuality on how much D3 they need to absorb calcium. Baby Sulcatas especially are susceptible to fatal MBD, or "failure to thrive." It is often brought on by dehydration, but being kept too dry as babies seems to start a chain reaction which leads to organ failure and associated MBD. Since the damage can be done while the baby is still in the care of the breeder, it isn't safe to assume that they are properly assimilating calcium through UV lighting alone.

To parrot Danny (egyptiandan,) a lot of people say that it is possible to overdose D3, but have you ever actually SEEN a tortoise suffering from D3 overdose? I haven't, and neither has Danny. 

It is perfectly okay to supplement D3 a couple times a week in conjunction with UV lighting, but it is disastrous for a baby to not receive enough D3 and develop MDB at a young age. It can quickly prove deadly, it is difficult to bring them back after they start the downward spiral, plus it damages the internal organs and can lead to health problems later in life. 

Russian tortoises do not seem to require the same levels of D3 as Sulcatas.


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## lisalove (Jan 23, 2011)

tortoisenerd said:


> On TNT & calcium & UVB: I think with UVB and sun you never need to supplement D3. For my two year old tort I alternate days of pure calcium and TNT over the food. I don't think you can overdose on the TNT in any reasonable amount because its just natural ground up stuff. Depending on your tort's age would determine a recommended calcium amount, but this really varies person to person as we all have our opinions (not too much data out there...except that recentish post that now I can't find). If hes getting hours of sun almost daily, the MVB is probably overkill, so if you just wanted to go to a regular bulb to save the money (as long as the sun exposure is maintained), thats an option.



Hi-
Thanks for the help. Is the calcium you use NOW Calcium Carbonate?


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## exoticsdr (Jan 23, 2011)

Many things can be causing edema that severe, including congenital heart problems, liver or kidney problems and it's not unusual, especially in young animals, for them to be completely normal until they reach a certain point in their growth when the problem organ system can no longer compensate...in in effect, no problem today, but big problems tomorrow with virutally no notice. That said, I wonder about an allergic reaction to something in it's environment..food, bedding, cleaning supplies, food/water container allergies (sounds odd, huh?). What about temps, any chance of a too high temp or stray voltage from a frayed cord? Just throwing out some ideas.


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## Tom (Jan 23, 2011)

Here are some thoughts on all this: Many are of the opinion that reptiles cannot even use dietary D3. I use a little throughout the winter, just in case they are wrong. I don't use any in summer. 

Tortoisenerd is right about the "overly hydrated" thing. If they got all puffy from too much hydration ALL of mine would look like good year blimps. Something is causing him to swell up like that. That is one reason I take hydration to the extreme. To show that even at ridiculous levels, it does no harm. So everyone else who uses a more "reasonable" amount of wetness should do so with no fear or worry.

I had a friend with a Jackson's chameleon that randomly and periodically suffered from edema (swelling, due to water retention). The vet determined, after blood tests and exams, that it was due too hypervitaminosis, specifically vitamin A. Apparently one of the symptoms of too much vitamin A can be edema. (Chime in here Dr. Westin, if any of this is not right.) He was gut loading his crickets with carrots. We figured that since beta-carotine is only the precursor to vitamin A that all the carrots in the world shouldn't hurt anything. He switched to potatoes instead of carrot and the problem immediately and permanently disappeared. So, Lisalove, I would try cutting out the TNT for a couple of weeks and see what happens. Cut the calcium down to once or twice a week and just feed good plain food. Many people have raised healthy torts with little or no supplementation EVER, so a couple or three weeks with out any should not have ANY detrimental effects on your little man.


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## exoticsdr (Jan 23, 2011)

You know, Vitamin A problems (hypovitaminosis A and hypervitaminosis A) can be tricky conditions.

Vit A deficiency has classically been diagnosed because torts and box turtles had puffy eyes (edema in the lids and Harderian glands) and then to treat it we started giving Vit A injections and rocked the teeter-totter in the opposite direction and found massive edema in the soft tissues and necrosis and sloughing of the skin. 

Unfortunately, both conditions can cause similar signs of edema....I personally wouldn't supplement it or D3 if I knew I was feeding an adequate diet also and if your hanging out on this site, there is little excuse to be feeding improperly. 

I don't believe it's a hypervitaminosis D3, but I guess it's possible. This condition causes soft tissue calcification and if it's happening in the kidneys or liver you could get this kind of edema.

I'm looking forward to find out if bloodwork or radiographs are done and if they tell any stories.


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## Tom (Jan 23, 2011)

So Dr. Westin, do think my suggestion of cutting out the supplements for a few weeks and seeing what happens is an OK plan to start with?


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## tortoisenerd (Jan 23, 2011)

Lisa-Yes, I use the NOW brand, but any type should be fine as long as its pure...its just the human ones tend to be cheaper than the reptile stuff, partially due to being able to buy it more in bulk. Calcium & D3 & other supplement use will always be a hot topic here, so I'm sorry if it seems like everyone is leading you in different directions (that is not our intent). I kinda doubt even a daily sprinkling of the TNT could cause anything like this (as its just greens and weeds the tort would get in a good natural diet), but cutting back on the supplements hopefully wouldn't hurt (although cutting out calcium in a tort this age already having health issues scares me, but I'm not the expert here).

Here's a helpful thread: http://www.tortoiseforum.org/Thread-Swollen-Tortoise

Infection seems most likely, assuming the smell and swelling/edema are related. Its confusing me that this is happening to an assumed well hydrated tort, as the cases I was reading about that seem similar were assumed to be in dehydrated hatchlings. I'd bring a fecal sample to the vet visit tomorrow to get tested for parasites, if possible. Good luck!


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## exoticsdr (Jan 23, 2011)

Tom said:


> So Dr. Westin, do think my suggestion of cutting out the supplements for a few weeks and seeing what happens is an OK plan to start with?



That's exactly where I would start....along with that vet visit of course. Just wish we had smell-a-vision..you can tell so much with those olfactory clues.

Don't know what the TNT is, I'm assuming a packaged food for torts. Might want to discontinue it also, at least temporarily. If it is an allergic reaction, it is going to take some detective work and time to remove and replace food stuffs, caging material with others to see if it helps.


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## lisalove (Jan 23, 2011)

Thank you to everyone for your advice and ideas, I really appreciate all of it. I will be cutting the TNT for now to see what happens, as that is the only real change I've made right before this all happened.
I will cut calcium to a couple times, if not once a week for now as well.
He isn't eating as much right now-though he is eating some, but he is pooping and peeing just fine-like before. 
As for his environment-he has been raised using Tom's guidelines (thanks Tom-I appreciate you!) and I am confident I'm doing everything I possibly can.
I did have him tested for parasites 2 weeks ago-he was fine.
Right now, he's roaming around his outdoor enclosure in the sun.
I, on the other hand, am beside myself. He is such a sweet little guy and it pains me to think that he's sick. 
I will follow up with everyone tomorrow after the vet visit.
Please don't forget about us! 
Thanks again.
FYI-I will read over all your comments, advice and ideas again after the vet visit-so please keep them coming should you all have any other thoughts.


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## Tracy Gould (Jan 23, 2011)

Hi I hope your Tort gets well soon. Have u checked the outdoor pen for stray weeds i am wondering if something as grown in there that is not good to eat, just a thought.


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## tortoisenerd (Jan 23, 2011)

(TNT, Total Nutrition for Tortoises, is a natural supplement powder sold from CarolinaPetSupply.com, with or without a probiotics, that is just natural ground up weeds and such)


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## lisalove (Jan 23, 2011)

Tracy Gould said:


> Hi I hope your Tort gets well soon. Have u checked the outdoor pen for stray weeds i am wondering if something as grown in there that is not good to eat, just a thought.



Thanks-
His 5'x5' outdoor enclosure is set up on my tile table.
He only has access to what I put in there.



exoticsdr said:


> Tom said:
> 
> 
> > So Dr. Westin, do think my suggestion of cutting out the supplements for a few weeks and seeing what happens is an OK plan to start with?
> ...


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## exoticsdr (Jan 23, 2011)

My gut is telling me you have something in his environment (either contact exposure or being eaten) that he is having an allergic reaction to, but like I said before...edema can be a symptom of so many different things, it's often hard to know where to start. Please keep us posted.


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## RianSeeking (Jan 23, 2011)

I'm keeping fingers crossed for you, Lisa.

My female Russian still suffers from edema. I've changed her diet as the vet suggested, and she's gotten a lot better, but not 100 percent. She's never had any odd smells. She seems perfectly happy and very vigorous.

I DO know that the first thing I look at if there is any odd change in my kids, dogs or horses is diet. Usually I go back to the very basics and give it some time.

I'm glad you're taking her to the vet tomorrow.


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## lisalove (Jan 23, 2011)

RianSeeking said:


> I'm keeping fingers crossed for you, Lisa.
> 
> My female Russian still suffers from edema. I've changed her diet as the vet suggested, and she's gotten a lot better, but not 100 percent. She's never had any odd smells. She seems perfectly happy and very vigorous.
> 
> ...




Thanks-
What are you feeding her now?


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## lisalove (Jan 23, 2011)

exoticsdr said:


> My gut is telling me you have something in his environment (either contact exposure or being eaten) that he is having an allergic reaction to, but like I said before...edema can be a symptom of so many different things, it's often hard to know where to start. Please keep us posted.



That's a tough one since I haven't changed anything.
Maybe I'll have to eliminate one thing at a time.
I will definitely have them run whatever tests they can.
I'll post an update. 
Thank you so much.


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## exoticsdr (Jan 24, 2011)

[/quote]

That's a tough one since I haven't changed anything.
Maybe I'll have to eliminate one thing at a time.
I will definitely have them run whatever tests they can.
I'll post an update. 
Thank you so much.

[/quote]

Funny thing about allergies that most people don't understand. You become allergic to things that you are exposed to over and over, some things it only takes two exposures and some things you become allergic to over an extended period of time. I grew up in a farming community in South Dakota and never had any allergies, but if I go back now during harvest season, my life is miserable. Same thing with our pets. It is interesting that if you have an allergy, continued exposure will sometimes give you resistance to an allergy...go figure, contradictions everywhere.


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## lisalove (Jan 24, 2011)

Nodder update-
Took our little guy to another vet today and was told again that he has "mild edema due to overhydration". She said the swelling was only mild and limited to the loose skin around his legs. She also said his eyes had only slight puffiness.
To me he looks the same as the pictures I posted on the first page, so when he went in today, she saw identical swelling as those pictures. She did say he was very alert and active like a healthy tort, and was not showing any other signs of illness.
I was told to soak him once a week for now to see if that helps. If not, I have to bring him back in for bloodwork and some other tests.
They are running another fecal test as well.
I am applying all the feedback I've been given here-thanks to all and I'm hoping it all works.
Still open to advice and suggestions.



exoticsdr said:


> Contradictions indeed!
> Looks like trial and error is in order along with my changes.
> We have a farm in South Dakota-near Howard. I know that miserable life during harvest time as well. In fact just seeing the words South Dakota harvest makes my eyes water and itch!!!!!
> I do appreciate your feedback and may need to pick your brain more.
> Thanks


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## exoticsdr (Jan 24, 2011)

Howard, SD? Small world indeed! My wife is from just down the road in Wessington Springs.


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## Tom (Jan 24, 2011)

Lisa, your experience certainly illustrates why many reptile keepers are frustrated with and often don't bother with vets. No offense Dr. Westin. There are some very good ones out there, but for two different "tortoise" vets to say that he's over-hydrated is just plain disheartening. If I drink more water than I need, I just pee more. I don't swell up like a balloon. If her tort looks like that from too many soaks, then how come mine aren't bursting at the seems from too much water?

Lisa, I'll bet that your problem is the TNT and too much supplementation. However, I just remembered someone a few months ago had something similar and worms were indicated as the cause and problem. I can't find the thread now, but it was an unusual type of worm too. Something not often found in tortoises. It was around 4-5 months ago and I can't remember the details now. Sorry.

Either way, I'm hoping for the best for you.


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## lisalove (Jan 24, 2011)

Crazy! We have friends in Wessington Springs-Bill Wolff and his family.
VERY small world. Wessington is a cute little town. 
Glad to be living in California right now though-it's below zero in SD tonight!


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## Tom (Jan 24, 2011)

I FOUND IT! Scroll down to post #5 for the diagnosis. Man I love this forum. I was way off on the time frame. It was all the way back in February of 2010.

http://www.tortoiseforum.org/Thread-Swollen-Sulcata?highlight=edema


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## exoticsdr (Jan 25, 2011)

No offense taken here Tom, I was offended by the diagnosis though....overhydration indeed. It's called "edema" and it's a symptom of an underlying problem. A radiograph would be very helpful in ruling out "ascites" (belly full of fluid) as the cause.


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## lisalove (Jan 25, 2011)

Tom said:


> I FOUND IT! Scroll down to post #5 for the diagnosis. Man I love this forum. I was way off on the time frame. It was all the way back in February of 2010.
> 
> http://www.tortoiseforum.org/Thread-Swollen-Sulcata?highlight=edema



Thanks for the leg work!
The fecal came back negative for Trichomonas/Hexamonas and Pinworms.
I think a radiograph is up next. 
Not the best pic but I thought I would send another. I could be hoping, but his legs seem to be 'deflating' a little. He's sleeping-so you can't tell with the eyes.










exoticsdr said:


> No offense taken here Tom, I was offended by the diagnosis though....overhydration indeed. It's called "edema" and it's a symptom of an underlying problem. A radiograph would be very helpful in ruling out "ascites" (belly full of fluid) as the cause.



Ok-so,
I'm thinking a radiograph is up next. In your (and anyone elses) opinion, should I wait to see if the things I'm doing now are helping for a week or so, or do it right away.
I want to point out he's eating great, pee and poop are normal volume. If he had "ascites" (belly full of fluid) would that compromise those things?



I know it may sound crazy, but if I could get a picture of a baby plastron with legs extended, maybe I can compare. Just a thought.

I know it may sound crazy, but if I could get a picture of a baby plastron with legs extended, maybe I can compare his to what a healthy one should look like. Just a thought. It seems like most of the time I see a plastron pic, legs are all tucked in.


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## Yvonne G (Jan 25, 2011)

Be sure to remind the vet that the baby smells.


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## exoticsdr (Jan 25, 2011)

Chances are the ascites would have an effect on normal functions, especially if his belly was full enough to be causing that kind of peripheral edema. Noticeable changes are encouraging and look like it is probably an allergic reaction as first thought, but if he doesn't normalize soon and you have to go back for another vet visit, a radiograph is where I would go next and bloodwork to check liver and kidney function...but I don't really think you will be going there.


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## lisalove (Jan 25, 2011)

Thanks Yvonne. 
The 2 vets I took him to didn't smell anything on him, nor does my husband.
When I sniffed him this morning, I could still smell the same thing I had been smelling (not infection), but more like a hay smell from his shell.
I appreciate your memory, as the smell is how all of this came about.
So far my nose is the only one who seems to smell anything.


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## Tom (Jan 25, 2011)

Here are a few.

Daisy at 12 weeks old.





Trey at 16 weeks old.





Tuck at 6 weeks old.


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## RianSeeking (Jan 25, 2011)

Cute baby tortoises. <covets>

Lisa, I know any swelling is a frightening thing, but it might make you feel a little better to know that he is not nearly as swollen as Josh was/is.

Josh is an adult wild caught Russian, not a baby sulcata, and she came to us with problems. I thought we were going to loose her pretty quickly after I realized how swollen she was, but the radiographs came back showing plenty of room for lungs and organs. She's more of a 'make the tort comfortable' rather than a failure to thrive. I guess.

Anyway, I changed a few things in her diet. I went strictly to Spring Mix, picking out the spinach. I stopped with dandelions, which she had been getting a lot of. Stopped with carrots as a treat. She was pretty restricted. I just started up dandelions again a few weeks ago.

Randomly and not applicable but interesting, I did two other things:

I lowered her MVB. 

I rescued another Russian. As soon as they were allowed together Josh actually got up and crossed the cage, stretched out her neck and rested her head on his shell for the rest of the day.

She's gone from a very inflated tort who sat in one spot and watched everything to a mildly inflated tort who rambles around her table and can actually lift her shell off the ground. She's not normal, but she seems comfortable.

Anyway. Very off topic. But. Compared to Josh your handsome sulcata seems normal.

Again, I'm glad you're having him checked out. And I'm crossing fingers that everything is just fine.

And I should really be cleaning the house.


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## lisalove (Jan 25, 2011)

exoticsdr said:


> Chances are the ascites would have an effect on normal functions, especially if his belly was full enough to be causing that kind of peripheral edema. Noticeable changes are encouraging and look like it is probably an allergic reaction as first thought, but if he doesn't normalize soon and you have to go back for another vet visit, a radiograph is where I would go next and bloodwork to check liver and kidney function...but I don't really think you will be going there.



Well, I'm not giving TNT and will only give calcium once-twice a week to see if that helps first. After that...we'll see what goes next!
Thanks






Tom said:


> Here are a few
> 
> THANK YOU for being such a huge help Tom.
> It really helps to see the comparison.
> ...


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