# Short Video of Tilikum's first Show since Trainer Death



## Kalina (Mar 30, 2011)

http://www.facebook.com/video/video...#!/video/video.php?v=187708047940677&comments


----------



## Candy (Mar 30, 2011)

Wow, I wonder what people are thinking and telling their children about this whale and what happened last year with him and Dawn Brancheau. I guess the truth would be somewhat disturbing, so I don't know what you would tell your child if you were watching Tilikum today in his new show. Obviously you would not be able to tell them the truth. At least he gets to swim in a bigger pool now. I guess that's the only positive spin I can put on it.


----------



## Kalina (Mar 30, 2011)

I kinda have mixed feelings about this, I'm happy he gets out of isolation, I've now seen a longer video of todays show and he gets to do some of his splashing with another whale. I'm happy his days aren't so boring anymore, but I find it eerie that people will go just to see the whale that killed his trainer. The whole show is degrading to him and the rest of the whales.


----------



## Jacqui (Mar 30, 2011)

Shame it showed so little of his first day out of "whale prison". Glad he is getting to perform and exercise his mind and body more.


----------



## Terry Allan Hall (Mar 30, 2011)

Kalina said:


> I kinda have mixed feelings about this, I'm happy he gets out of isolation, I've now seen a longer video of todays show and he gets to do some of his splashing with another whale. I'm happy his days aren't so boring anymore, but *I find it eerie that people will go just to see the whale that killed his trainer*. The whole show is degrading to him and the rest of the whales.



Just like NASCAR...people don't go to see all those guys make left turn after left turn...ad nauseum...people go to see someone crash and (hopefully) die a fiery death!

Kinda like the Roman Coliseum, with the gladiators and the lion/Christian "shows"...


----------



## ChiKat (Mar 30, 2011)

Jacqui said:


> Shame it showed so little of his first day out of "whale prison". Glad he is getting to perform and exercise his mind and body more.



He's out of whale prison?? They released him from Seaworld?!?



I have to say, I was reading up on SeaWorld rescuing turtles from the oil spill, caring for them, and eventually releasing them back into the wild, and it was nice to read something positive about them. 
If only there was a little more of that and a little less whale controversy.


----------



## Kalina (Mar 30, 2011)

Yes, SW do some great rescue and rehab work... I wish they would do more of that and less entertainment. They rescued a big whale not too long ago, can't remember what kind, but they had it for quite some time, it was huge, they eventually released it.


----------



## Kalina (Mar 31, 2011)

Tili's full performance yesterday http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnXuBGPNh64


----------



## Jacqui (Mar 31, 2011)

ChiKat said:


> Jacqui said:
> 
> 
> > Shame it showed so little of his first day out of "whale prison". Glad he is getting to perform and exercise his mind and body more.
> ...


No he is still LIVING safely at SW. I really can't imagine them ever letting him be loose in the ocean. He should now be listed as a dangerous animal, which would mean being allowed to freely roam the oceans and perhaps kill another human could not be allowed. He would have to be killed... much the same as the bears or lions who hurt or attempt to hurt humans are.





Kalina said:


> Yes, SW do some great rescue and rehab work... I wish they would do more of that and less entertainment. They rescued a big whale not too long ago, can't remember what kind, but they had it for quite some time, it was huge, they eventually released it.



I think the shows help to pay for that rescue work and by having the shows it also shows would be supporters (the big money sponsors) what their money is being used on. If you shut down the public Seaworld, you would shut down or atleast seriously hurt future funding to help the wild whales, dolphins, ect.., To me, it's sorta an unfortunate choice, do you try to "save" the few captive animals or instead use those unfortunate animals to help save the thousands still living in the wild?





Terry Allan Hall said:


> Kalina said:
> 
> 
> > I kinda have mixed feelings about this, I'm happy he gets out of isolation, I've now seen a longer video of todays show and he gets to do some of his splashing with another whale. I'm happy his days aren't so boring anymore, but *I find it eerie that people will go just to see the whale that killed his trainer*. The whole show is degrading to him and the rest of the whales.
> ...



Or to maybe make it more at the normal person's level... when there is a car wreck on the road, do you slow down and check out the wreck or instead do you ignore the wreck, look only at the traffic around you and as quickly as possible get out of there? Humans want to see the blood and gore.



Kalina said:


> Tili's full performance yesterday http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnXuBGPNh64


Thank you!


----------



## Kalina (Mar 31, 2011)

Tilikum will never be released, he's too dangerous.. They should retire him to a natural sea pen and stop their breeding program.


----------



## Isa (Mar 31, 2011)

I think that all this situation is very sad and I do not understand how people can still go see his show  (I am talking about the ones who know who Tilikum is). I am happy he can go in a bigger pool and be with another whale for a little but still it is just not ok for me. I think that no one (no animals, humans...) should be abused or used for entertainment (money involved or not, well of course it is always involved  )


----------



## Kalina (Mar 31, 2011)

Unfortunately Isa, he will never have the life he was born to live, he will always be confined... But I think SW have a moral responsibility to retire him to a natural sea pen, where he can live out the rest of his life with somewhat dignity and the next best thing to his natural environment.
Tili has been involved with 3 human deaths, (possibly not responsible for one of those)... How many more times does he have to speak before they listen? They'll always be human error, a trait a trainer can't afford to have who works with him.


----------



## Candy (Mar 31, 2011)

This might come as a shock to "Some of you", but Sea World is not the only group that helps whales or dolphins when they're in trouble. Just because the others don't advertise their help to make a profit doesn't mean that they're not there saving the lives of innocent animals. If Sea World lost money by setting the whales free I think the rescues would go on without them. I don't think that you need to exploit animals to make a profit. I don't understand Jacqui's comment on not letting him go free because he could kill humans in the wild? Can you please explain this statement? Where are you going to find humans swimming around with Killer Whales in Puget Sound or anywhere else? There's been no reports of Killer Whales killing humans in the wild, just in captivity. He would not have to be killed since you're sending him back in the wild and if he was not kept in captivity to begin with he wouldn't have killed at all, so this I blame on humans and that is exactly why he wasn't killed when he killed Dawn Brancheau. At least most humans know that this was not his fault. I watched that video and do feel better at him swimming with another whale, but as I watched it I had to think to myself "Why is this so entertaining to people?" They're splashing around and throwing water on the audience and that's really all they do. Are we that mindless that this is what we consider amusement? I notice that they took the "Believe" sign down also, and if anyone can explain to me what that meant to begin with please share it with me. Believe what? Wow I bet if some of you were at that show where the trainer was killed and your kids saw what happened that you would definitely be seeing this in a different light.

Here's an interview with one of the former trainers at Sea World about putting Tilikum back in the water. Oh Jacqui is he really living safely at Sea World? Not from what this trainer is saying. Listen to the end of the interview to find out what Sea World never let her know about.

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=7361348n&tag=cbsnewsVideoArea.0?tag=facebook


----------



## Kalina (Mar 31, 2011)

Hi Candy, hope you are well, and congrats to your son on his school project ;-)

Tilikum is a touchy subject with most, it seems nobody can agree on what's right for him.... I agree there's a lot of other agencies doing rescue work with Marine Mammals, there's also a lot of stranding networks that help with sick and stranded whales. But back to Tilikum, he was captured in the waters off Iceland, same as keiko... I don't believe he should be part of the shows at Seaworld anymore, he is a threat to trainers and he has killed humans (whether it be his fault or not)... I believe that Orca's and Dolphins are self aware, i also think they realize right from wrong, I believe Tilikum had a moment of madness when he killed Dawn, but overall, I believe he knew what he was doing. People against captivity are somewhat undecided on what should happen with Tilikum, even scientists and researchers are suggesting he should never be released into the open ocean, ever. If we consider the intelligence of these animals and their social skills, it has been suggested that traits/actions can be passed on via communication between pods, basically they can learn behavior from one another. Tilikum has killed humans, researchers are worried he could pose the same threat to humans in the wild. People go out on boats, they kayak with orcas all the time, families of orcas just swim by and tolerate human presence... Tilikum is definately not tolerant of humans, of course it's humans fault why he is the way he is, he should have been left in the ocean with his Mom and family. Tili is a damaged whale, he's stressed, he has health issues, he's depressed and some say he's losing his mind (not surprised at all)... I don't see him ever being released and i don't see researchers and scientists wanting him to be released... I think I natural sea pen is what's best for him. But this is just my opinion, others may disagree... I feel sorry for the big guy because none of this is his fault.


----------



## Jacqui (Mar 31, 2011)

Okay if he is not going to be allowed to be on exhibit or to breed, and if being in captivity is so bad for whales (especially ones held in isolation, which is what retirement would be for him) I think he should be humanly put down not just put into another form of captivity in a sea pen.


----------



## Kalina (Mar 31, 2011)

I have to respectfully disagree, Euthenasia is not an option for any Orca unless they're ill... Man captured this animal from it's natural environment, took it away from it's family and everything it had ever known, they placed it in a pool and trained it to do tricks... Now, after years of doing this, he's damaged... He (along with the other whales) have made SW billions of dollars... They have a moral obligation to retire him to a natural sea pen, a place much larger that his current environment, a place where he can be taught to forage for himself, even share his pen with others that can't be released, a place where he can somewhat act like a "whale" and not a circus clown. Man made this animal what he is today, now his behavior is unacceptable you can't just kill him, that would be wrong.


----------



## Jacqui (Mar 31, 2011)

Why should it not be an option? I disagree that man made him what he is today. That's like saying your parent made you who you are. Part of who you are also comes from genes and your own personal mind/body. 

You really think just getting to *act* like a whale is enough?


----------



## Candy (Mar 31, 2011)

Jacqui said:


> Why should it not be an option? I disagree that man made him what he is today. That's like saying your parent made you who you are. Part of who you are also comes from genes and your own personal mind/body.
> 
> You really think just getting to *act* like a whale is enough?



How parents raise their children is a huge part of who they are and don't believe otherwise. A child that comes from an abusive home is not going to have the same belief system as a child who comes from a loving environment. They are not going to have the same trust and it will be seen in their personalities. And the genes come from the parents so yes they do in a way make you who you are. Psychologist's themselves will tell you that a lot of the time all they need to do is to interact with the parents or grandparents to see what is going on with the child. They did this to Tilikum with no doubt and if you would read some of the articles that we've posted (or find your own, it's not hard) you'd find that what you are suggesting is not even close to the truth. 

Is "Just acting like a human enough for you?"


----------



## Jacqui (Apr 1, 2011)

Candy, I have raised children, so I know how that goes. However, you also can have children raised "right" that turn out to be "monsters" that kill and abuse. Giving a child a loving, nurturing, and moral upbringing lays a foundation for them to be that sort of person, but it does not guarantee it. Then there are those children raised in horrible and abusive situations, who manage to rise above it.

BTW it is from reading what you have written, that made me decide that perhaps the best thing for this animal is to be put to sleep, if he can't be used for reproduction even, since he should never be allowed free again.


----------



## Kalina (Apr 1, 2011)

They won't kill him Jaqui, he's their prize winning bull... You're right with regards to the gene pool, you can certainly get traits from your parents... But Tilikum hasn't been raised with his parents, he's been raised by humans, that's why his behavior isn't right. Any whale living in a controlled environment won't display normal behavior to their species. Can you imagine you being taken away from your family and being raised by a completely different species than yourself?


----------



## ChiKat (Apr 1, 2011)

Jacqui, you are right that there are some children who are monsters in spite of their parents being loving and nurturing. However, in this situation with Tilikum, I think it's safe to say that he would not act the way he has if he had never been captured, ripped away from his family, and stuck in a small pen. So it IS the fault of humans that he is this way now, and is unable to be released back where he belongs.

...and what Kalina said 

I am sure there are people that agree with you, that he should be put to sleep; put out of his misery. It's sad that none of this would have happened if we had just left him alone. We had no business disturbing his natural life.


----------

