# Heartbroken



## cmosuna (Apr 24, 2012)

Our family is completely heartbroken right now, someone or someones broke into our yard last night and stole many of our beloved turtles and tortoises =( How heartless and cruel can people be to steal someones pets!


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## dmmj (Apr 24, 2012)

That's horrible, I think that is a big fear of most of us. (myself included)


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## jojodesca (Apr 24, 2012)

This is OUTRAGEOUS!!!! I would be seeing red!!....please start looking on CRAIGSLIST in your area, or checking with pet stores that might have recently acquired new tortoises!!!...Make a police report ASAP....AND this had to be an inside job, someone you know or someone they know had to know you had them, and they took them...a neighbor maybe or a friend of your neighbors....ppl just dont wander into ppls yard and take animals without knowing what they are getting........


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## cmosuna (Apr 24, 2012)

jojodesca said:


> This is OUTRAGEOUS!!!! I would be seeing red!!....please start looking on CRAIGSLIST in your area, or checking with pet stores that might have recently acquired new tortoises!!!...Make a police report ASAP....AND this had to be an inside job, someone you know or someone they know had to know you had them, and they took them...a neighbor maybe or a friend of your neighbors....ppl just dont wander into ppls yard and take animals without knowing what they are getting........



We have done each of those things but as far as people knowing its hard to prevent, even when our neighbors were getting a tree trimmed the workers climbed up on our block wall and were calling people over to see our sulcatas and stuff. Gardeners have seen them, so sad you cant be trusting with a pet. We are going to install motion lighting today to help


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## Arizona Sulcata (Apr 24, 2012)

About 5 years ago my friend lost about 5 grand worth of sulcatas in one night. Not cool! I'm so sorry! I'm sure many of us can relate.


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## JoesMum (Apr 24, 2012)

That is very sad. 

Were any of them microchipped?


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## Katherine (Apr 24, 2012)

I am so so sorry for you. This is my husbands biggest fear. If you have any current photos or statistics on your missing animals, post them here and at all local exotic pet stores. Thieves likely take tortoises because they seem them as a way to make profit, and thus will try to sell them back to other tortoise enthusiasts or vendors. Hopefully if you can spread the word, when someone does see your pets up for sale they will be able to alert you. Again I am so sorry, humanity disappoints me greatly : ( 

I just searched through your old posts in effort to see your tortoises least I be able to recognize them anywhere and found a link to your Facebook page complete with a map and directions to your house. It's terrible that we live in world which forces us to be weary of eachother, but I might suggest removing that information ASAP, as any unscrupulous Internet user can pinpoint your home and target you for tortoise theft. It may not have been anyone you know. So so sad : (


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## cmosuna (Apr 24, 2012)

The Facebook shows the general vicinity but not our address and we don't live on the street. More then likely it was kids that live in the apartments behind us. We have seen then standing on cars to look in. Once one person saw they all look. Our walls are also as high as the city will allow


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## Yvonne G (Apr 24, 2012)

Oh, Chad...that's just awful. I always worry about that too. I make sure all my turtles and tortoises are in their house at night with the door blocked, but in reality, that just makes it easier for a thief to find them and steal them, doesn't it. I guess the next step is doors that actually latch and lock. Right now its just a piece of plywood and a cinder block.


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## Neal (Apr 24, 2012)

Get the word out at your local pet shops and veterinarian office, anywhere else you think might help. 

Blast the internet too. Do you have pictures of them?

We had the same thing happen a few months back, I think the best thing you could do is get the word out as fast as you can.


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## l0velesly (Apr 24, 2012)

Oh my gosh, how awful! People are cruel. I really hope you get them back


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## kimber_lee_314 (Apr 24, 2012)

My worst nightmare!!!! I keep my gate locked all the time and grow bouganvilla around the front of the fences so no one can climb them. I don't even let the gardener in the back anymore - I'm that paranoid! How many did you lose? Please post pics for us so we can keep an eye for them.


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## wellington (Apr 24, 2012)

That is so mean and cruel to both you and the tortoises. We had a pet store in our area that had two large sulcatas in the store. Someone broke the window and stole one of them. Fortunately (I think, they were in a very, I mean very small enclosure) they did get it back a few months later. Hopefully you will get yours back too. I am so sorry this happened


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## DesertGrandma (Apr 24, 2012)

So sorry to hear about this, it's not the first time on this forum (is it Neal?!). Guess we are all going to have to install cameras so at least the thieves can be identified. Hard to understand the mind of someone that would do something like this. 8-(


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## Snapper925 (Apr 24, 2012)

What area was It in and what species? This could help some of us,
This is the only reason I do not want to make an outdoor enclosure


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## *Barracuda_50* (Apr 24, 2012)

Thats really sad deffinately get the word out everywhere make sure to get the word out to all reptile forums and Fauna, things like this happen everyday not just to reptiles and other animals but also with carnivorous plant collections, other rare plants and even cactus collections. There are many cheap easy things one can do to set off noise and such to help deter unwated people away or so that if its in the middle of the night you will be able to hear them getting into your yard or enclosures, you can also set up trail cams around your yard and home that will snap pics every so many mins and if someone does snoop around or even get in atleast you will have the pics to help you ID them or catch them with the help of the police. Im glad we dont live near any big cities nor large towns and that we are in the middle of the woods, no one can see anything on my property unless your the DNR sneaking around or the spy plane that flys over head..  The main things visible on my property from the main road is my greenhouses and front of house but we sit a good amount back in off the road in the trees.


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## Momof4 (Apr 24, 2012)

I'm so sorry!! That is just terrible!! I need to get my locks!!


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## cmosuna (Apr 24, 2012)

In an odd turn of events one of our beloved tortoises was just dropped back into our yard. And by dropped I mean thrown over the fence and fled before I saw them. She wasn't there 2 minutes earlier so I must have missed them by seconds. She is uninjured and back in her enclosure. To which I am currently adding motion lighting.

So it gets even crazier, turns out it was a bunch of 10 year old boys with obvious parental problems. It was a game to them they just started handing them out to people and then eventually threw several of them in the dumpster! We recovered most of them but are still missing about 2 or 3 Sliders. The sickening part was the mother who in Spanish tells another mother (in front of the police) that they are just stupid turtles and that's what kids do, its only because they are stupid white people. She then told us her son came home with them and she threw them in the garbage! WTH is wrong with people!


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## Katherine (Apr 24, 2012)

Wow. How awful and how awesome. So happy to hear some of them are back home safely, hope the remaining sliders come home soon too!


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## DixieParadise (Apr 24, 2012)

OMG, was reading through the thread hoping, just hoping for a happy ending. You got some of them back, but not all of them. Who are these people who think they can just trespass and steal with no thought to the emotional roller coaster the owner is going through. 

I am so sorry this happened to you. I think we all will take extra precautions to insure this doesn't happen to us. Thanks for sharing your story, as heart wrenching as it started out to be.


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## lynnedit (Apr 24, 2012)

OMG, just saw your thread. I am so sorry, what a terrible experience, although I am glad you got many of them back unharmed.
What about electric wire along the back (and sides if needed)of the fence?
Incredible.


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## cmosuna (Apr 24, 2012)

lynnedit said:


> OMG, just saw your thread. I am so sorry, what a terrible experience, although I am glad you got many of them back unharmed.
> What about electric wire along the back (and sides if needed)of the fence?
> Incredible.



I was told that if I add anything like that to my fence and someone gets hirt, I would be liable. Typical, because I wanted to add those little spikes across it that keeps birds from landing.


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## lynnedit (Apr 24, 2012)

Even if you put a warning up on the outside of the fence? What about if the electric wiring is on the inside of your fence along the top (with the warning on the outside)?
That's too bad.


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## terryo (Apr 24, 2012)

I don't know why I'm always so shocked by the parenting of some people. Imagine teaching your children that stealing is OK, and if that isn't enough, putting such little importance on animals. Unfortunately the future of these children looks grim to me. Glad you got most of them back.


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## lisalove (Apr 24, 2012)

Makes me realize that I think I may like animals more than people!!!! 
Glad the ending is at least partially happy!


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## nickercrombie (Apr 24, 2012)

I feel like if you had warning signs posted and someone hurt themselves, that would take away the liability from you. I have a few teachers that are lawyers, and I'd like to ask them about this. Where are you located? 

Also, if you need signs and can't find any readily available, I can make you weatherproof, very durable signs for very cheap.


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## cmosuna (Apr 24, 2012)

We live I Orange County California


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## bigred (Apr 24, 2012)

I live pretty close to you and worry about this all the time. I have neighbor kids right in back of my house and caught them looking over the fence before. I was watching the news and heard of a couple of calif. Des. torts that were stolen in La Habra. These people had the torts for 20 or 30 years. It is often stupid kids that have no idea what they are doing and what they have gotten ahold of. I have sold Redfoot hatchlings and had people over the house but I dont think that will be happening anymore. Sorry for your ordeal, Im in Fullerton so let me know if you need anything


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## ErikaO (Apr 24, 2012)

What a horrific ordeal for your family and your pets! It is good to know that you were able to recover most of them. I don't know if living in Orange County, you have a problem with Mexican Nationals not living by or teaching their children to live by the laws of the land. Here in Albuquerque, we do have a problem with break-ins and robberies by Mexican Nationals. However, as a Spanish mother of 7 very well behaved and respectful children, I feel compelled to say (not so much for your benefit, but the benefit of your readers from other parts of the country/world) that not all Spanish parents condone such terrible behvior. Your unfortunate scenario is a result of poor parenting, period. 
I hope your pets recover from any shock they might have gone through and I certainly hope your family never goes through anything like this again. God speed to you, your family, and your pets.


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## Tom (Apr 24, 2012)

This is infuriating. The whole thing. The theft of your pets, the disregard for living animals, the horrendous racist parenting...

Punish them. Find a way and punish them...


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## EKLC (Apr 24, 2012)

At the very least I hope the law comes down hard on them and that you get the sliders back. 

I'd probably be in jail now if I were in your position.


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## Jacqui (Apr 25, 2012)

These kids are going to be charged and taken to court correct? It looks like those children will have a rough and sad life in the future with the way they are starting out and with what looks like parent approval. I can understand the woman thinking they are just stupid animals. even tho she is very mistaken. However, it does not mater if something is stupid or has no value within your own eyes, if it is the property of somebody else it is off limits to you. Glad this has a pretty good ending as far as the recovery goes. Fingers crossed for the last ones to come back.


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## Neal (Apr 25, 2012)

What are the consequences of trespassing by a minor?

I can't understand why people have such disrespect for animals. The parents are apparently not concerned about what their children did, so I guess they have not respect for humans either. I'm disgusted by your experience, but it's probably one of those situations where you gotta move on.


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## cmosuna (Apr 25, 2012)

Neal said:


> What are the consequences of trespassing by a minor?
> 
> I can't understand why people have such disrespect for animals. The parents are apparently not concerned about what their children did, so I guess they have not respect for humans either. I'm disgusted by your experience, but it's probably one of those situations where you gotta move on.



First off I would like to thank everyone for their support and kind words, secondly it seems that Neal is probably right. No one cares but us Crazy people. Not Animal Control, not the police, not the kids, not their parents. Everyone I call or contact says sorry but nothing can be done, also found out the police never even took a report basically they were just humoring us. I am so disgusted, as good people we all believe that there are rules and when those rules are broken there are consequences and the honest truth is that most of the time there are not =/


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## JoesMum (Apr 25, 2012)

This is awful! I wonder if the ASPCA could give you any advice?

I am certain the RSPCA would be able to help under similar circumstances where I live in the UK.


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## Merlin M (Apr 25, 2012)

That is so sad! I hope you get them all back at least! really can't believe one was just lobbed over the fence (at least it was returned though...) Fingers crossed they keep out from now on!


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## MikeCow1 (Apr 25, 2012)

Sadly, that seems to be the way of things here in OC, the police just don't want to do anything unless it's a major crime. This is not only trespassing but it is burglary. And, given the police response it shows the kids that they can do pretty much whatever they want and there will be no repercussions.


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## DixieParadise (Apr 25, 2012)

Ok, there is something you can do as far as the police report. Are you saying the Officer did not take the report? If so, call Internal Affairs tell them of your incident. Let them know that you were not treated fairly and they you intend to pursue this. Call the local newspaper, news station. Let the neighbors know what is going on in their neighborhood. I gurantee you, you will get some attention and more positive than you think negative.

You are talking about turtles and tortoises, what if someones prized dog or cat was taken and injured? I would not just be satisfied with getting my pets back. That is what the family wants because they don't want legal trouble. That is what the Police want, because they were lazy in the investigation and reporting of your CRIME!!

Here is California's definition of Grand Theft:
Grand theft occurs when property valued at above $400 is unlawfully taken. Under California Penal Code 487, offenders can be charged for grand theft if the amount totals more than $400 over a 12-month period. For instance, if an offender is charged with stealing $125 on four separate occasions during a year, he or she can then be charged with grand theft once the amount is greater than $400. In some cases, if certain products such as domestic chickens and farm crops that are valued over $100 are stolen, a grand theft charge may apply. Grand theft is committed in the same four ways as petty theft. Penalties for being convicted of grand theft in California include anywhere from 16 to 36 months incarceration. There is additional jail time given depending on the amount stolen. For instance, in addition to the time given for grand theft, two years are added to the jail term when more than $1.3 million is taken.


Here is what California law says about trespassing:

PC 602 Part H

Entering a private property where animals are contained is illegal but is only punishable if signs are posted. Furthermore, animals cannot be removed or injured and any property or trespassing signs cannot be damaged. Place signs "at intervals not less than three per mile along all exterior boundaries and at all
roads and trails entering the land."

Hope this helps. Sorry so lengthy... I am just infuriated and mad at the disrespect that you and your pets were shown.


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## acrantophis (Apr 25, 2012)

Call all the pet stores in your area and let them know that someone stole your tortoises and they may come in to sell them to the shop. Have them get their license plate number if possible. It worked for me when someone stole a bag of baby boas I had brought to a pet store to sell.


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## cmosuna (Apr 25, 2012)

DixieParadise said:


> Ok, there is something you can do as far as the police report. Are you saying the Officer did not take the report? If so, call Internal Affairs tell them of your incident. Let them know that you were not treated fairly and they you intend to pursue this. Call the local newspaper, news station. Let the neighbors know what is going on in their neighborhood. I gurantee you, you will get some attention and more positive than you think negative.
> 
> You are talking about turtles and tortoises, what if someones prized dog or cat was taken and injured? I would not just be satisfied with getting my pets back. That is what the family wants because they don't want legal trouble. That is what the Police want, because they were lazy in the investigation and reporting of your CRIME!!
> 
> ...



Many of the comments here today got me heated up, so I called the SPCA to which they told me they could do nothing. Then called the police back out to which they again told me the reason they did not take the names was because they were under the age of 14 and could not be convicted of a crime unless it was serious like murder or something. How fantastic.


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## ErikaO (Apr 25, 2012)

Wow, that seems to make no sense at all that the police can do nothing about it! Seems more like they "choose" not to do anything about it. Here where I live, the parents are held responsible for the actions of their minor children, which is exactly how it should be! I am shocked that given the fact that at least one mother admitted to knowing about the incident, that the parents aren't given a hefty fine, or made to do community service. What a trajedy, in more ways than one! Look at how many people are affected and have to live with the lack of responsibility allowed! Shame on the California legal system and whats more, shame on the pathetic parents who have done a terrible injustice to their children, their community and their country!


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## lisalove (Apr 25, 2012)

I can tell you, if they shoplifted the equal value from a store, they would file a report for sure and the parents would be held responsible as well. I really think the police are viewing it as unimportant, therefore no action is taken.
Shameful.


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## Utah Lynn (Apr 25, 2012)

cmosuna said:


> Neal said:
> 
> 
> > What are the consequences of trespassing by a minor?
> ...


You could report the parents to Department of Child Protective Services. Maybe that would wake these lousy parents up.


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## ijmccollum (Apr 25, 2012)

DixieParadise said:


> Ok, call Internal Affairs tell them of your incident. Let them know that you were not treated fairly and they you intend to pursue this. Call the local newspaper, news station. Let the neighbors know what is going on in their neighborhood. I gurantee you, you will get some attention and more positive than you think negative.



You are probably not the only one that has had problems with this family. I cannot believe the attitude of your police to crime...and what they did was a crime! H3ll, where I live, if your <14 yr old kid isn't wearing a seatbelt, the parent gets ticketed....theft, the kid would be in juvie-hall regardless of age.

And what Lynn says, call family services..........make a racket!


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## ErikaO (Apr 25, 2012)

Having worked with children and teens for years, I can say that Child Protective Services will more than likely not help in this situation. Their whole purpose is to protect the children; unfortunately, that does not include protecting them from stupid parents. A neighborhood association that implements a good watch program and singles families like the ones whose children participated, would do more to help iliminate or at least minimize future issues. Because the law (although set up to help) is refusing to help, this has to be a "We the people" situation. Spread the news about these particularfamilies so that your community is at least aware of the possibility of unchallenged crime; and perhaps ostracizing these families might either drive them away or at least stop their nonsense.


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## Tom (Apr 25, 2012)

VERY good info EJ.

Chad, if the cops are saying that these kids are too young to be charged, then obviously the responsibility falls upon the parents. According to the definition provided by EJ, grand theft occurred and SOMEONE must be charged with that crime.

If you don't take action, these kids will do this again and worse... Theses kids and especially the parents of these kids MUST be made to realize there are consequences for these actions. Watch how quickly these parents start controlling their kids when fines and legal action are levied against them... If they get away Scott free, I worry about the future.


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## cmosuna (Apr 25, 2012)

Tom said:


> VERY good info EJ.
> 
> Chad, if the cops are saying that these kids are too young to be charged, then obviously the responsibility falls upon the parents. According to the definition provided by EJ, grand theft occurred and SOMEONE must be charged with that crime.
> 
> If you don't take action, these kids will do this again and worse... Theses kids and especially the parents of these kids MUST be made to realize there are consequences for these actions. Watch how quickly these parents start controlling their kids when fines and legal action are levied against them... If they get away Scott free, I worry about the future.



It all sounds so great and full of justice, but it's not going to happen. We have spoken to multiple police, humane societies, etc the past couple of days and the sad sad truth there is nothing they will do. What we were told are laws that are in place protect children that young do not allow us to press charges on them on pretty much anything less than murder. I also discussed with them the mother admitting to throwing them in the trash and they also informed me there was still nothing that can or will do without having seen them in the act. Since all of the expensive torts were returned the monetary value of what is still outstanding is something in the range of $50. Which leaves the trespassing charge which we cannot hold the parents accountable for. They told me the best I could do is civaly sue them to get the menatary value back. Our Justice System is effed up.


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## Tom (Apr 25, 2012)

Chad, I'm sorry to say that I have shared that same observation on far far too many occasions...

I hope that somehow those rotten parents get what they deserve and that their unfortunate children somehow learn right from wrong on their own.


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## cmosuna (Apr 25, 2012)

Tom said:


> Chad, I'm sorry to say that I have shared that same observation on far far too many occasions...
> 
> I hope that somehow those rotten parents get what they deserve and that their unfortunate children somehow learn right from wrong on their own.



Luckily we have no recovered all but one slider that was taken. I found two more today. One they dumped in my neighbors yard and another some of the kids found and just brought back to me. Hopefully now they understand and know that all eyes are on them.


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## JoesMum (Apr 25, 2012)

You have been through hell and so have your torts. Let's hope the last one turns up. Fingers crossed and ((((hugs))))


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## ALDABRAMAN (Apr 25, 2012)

EKLC said:


> At the very least I hope the law comes down hard on them and that you get the sliders back.
> 
> I'd probably be in jail now if I were in your position.



*Yes, I hope they are arrested and held responsible for the crime!*


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## Laurie (Apr 25, 2012)

This really upsets me! They're are so many ignorant people reproducing!! Good luck to you


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## cljohnson (Apr 25, 2012)

WHY IS THERE NOT A LICENSE TO REPRODUCE. 
I sometimes wonder why boys aren't sterilized at birth. Then when they turn 21 and can prove they are smarter than a bucket of hair and have some means to support a child they get their testicles back. 
Sorry this Ps me off beyond belief. 
I am appalled by the response of the police and especially the " parents ". 
I am very sorry you had to go through this. 
I wish you and your shelled children all the best.


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## DixieParadise (Apr 25, 2012)

I would put signs for trespassing and warning of an electrical fence on the property. Also put one of those fake survelliance cameras up with signs...They would be foolish to try this again. What does the law say about protecting your property? I am not an advocate of harming people, but just saying those kids are glad they didn't step in my backyard...

Glad to hear that most of your pets are home and safe. Fingers crossed for the RES to show up, soon.


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## dmmj (Apr 25, 2012)

cljohnson said:


> WHY IS THERE NOT A LICENSE TO REPRODUCE.
> I sometimes wonder why boys aren't sterilized at birth. Then when they turn 21 and can prove they are smarter than a bucket of hair and have some means to support a child they get their testicles back.
> Sorry this Ps me off beyond belief.
> I am appalled by the response of the police and especially the " parents ".
> ...


There is no going back from sterilization, and it usually takes two to tango.
A little harsh IMHO


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## ALDABRAMAN (Apr 25, 2012)

cljohnson said:


> WHY IS THERE NOT A LICENSE TO REPRODUCE.
> *I sometimes wonder why boys aren't sterilized at birth. *


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## cljohnson (Apr 25, 2012)

dmmj said:


> There is no going back from sterilization, and it usually takes two to tango.
> A little harsh IMHO



Maybe I was a bit over the top.
I was venting and only half serious. 
The reason I said boys is unfortunately only irresponsible young women seem to get stuck raising unwanted kids.


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## ErikaO (Apr 25, 2012)

cljohnson said:


> Maybe I was a bit over the top.
> I was venting and only half serious.
> The reason I said boys is unfortunately only irresponsible young women seem to get stuck raising unwanted kids.



Understandibly, you are frustrated with this very broad problem, and i'm sure your last posting was also a means of venting, because surely you know that all children are wanted. Truth of the matter is...we live in a great nation tht allows us many freedoms. Unfortunately, some people are too ignorant and cause all of us problems with those freedoms. Like the freedom to peacefully raise your choice of pets and freedome to own your own property. I realize that the children involved in this situation are a real thorn to people's sides, but behavior is behavior allowed. So the parents should be looked at. Again, regarding the parents...behavior is behavior allowed. The California authorities have allowed these ignorant parents to get away with this tragedy. This is why it is so important to vote your values! This problem will be everyone's eventually, if we all allow some crazy judge on the bench to decide to let children and their parents get away with everything. 
Again, I certainly hope this horrible situation never happens again, but I fear it happens more often than we ever hear about.


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## Eweezyfosheezy (Apr 26, 2012)

I'm sorry to hear that nothing was done to the people that stole your tortoises but glad that you indeed get them back.  I cant stand people that steal things and especially ones that steal live animals!!!


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## cemmons12 (Apr 26, 2012)

Sorry to hear this happend, but I am happy to see u got some back! Hope they all get back home soon! Best of luck to you!!!


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## SailingMystic (Apr 26, 2012)

cmosuna said:


> In an odd turn of events one of our beloved tortoises was just dropped back into our yard. And by dropped I mean thrown over the fence and fled before I saw them. She wasn't there 2 minutes earlier so I must have missed them by seconds. She is uninjured and back in her enclosure. To which I am currently adding motion lighting.
> 
> So it gets even crazier, turns out it was a bunch of 10 year old boys with obvious parental problems. It was a game to them they just started handing them out to people and then eventually threw several of them in the dumpster! We recovered most of them but are still missing about 2 or 3 Sliders. The sickening part was the mother who in Spanish tells another mother (in front of the police) that they are just stupid turtles and that's what kids do, its only because they are stupid white people. She then told us her son came home with them and she threw them in the garbage! WTH is wrong with people!



Omg- I'm sick!! These are the people that need to take a test before they are allowed to reproduce!! I'm sorry but this needs to be addressed. Did you find the two in the dumpster?! Need local forum members to help you dive through?? Sick.


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## cmosuna (Apr 26, 2012)

SailingMystic said:


> cmosuna said:
> 
> 
> > In an odd turn of events one of our beloved tortoises was just dropped back into our yard. And by dropped I mean thrown over the fence and fled before I saw them. She wasn't there 2 minutes earlier so I must have missed them by seconds. She is uninjured and back in her enclosure. To which I am currently adding motion lighting.
> ...



We have dug and looked, we have since recovered all but one. Sadly she is a great big old female that we are very fond of. Hopefully she will turn up soon =/ Two more of them turned up for us yesterday, everyone in the condos behind us is aware and on the lookout.


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## Neal (Apr 26, 2012)

It could have been a lot worse, I am glad you were able to recover almost all of your tortoises and turtles.

If you want to sleep well at night, I'd recommend a security camera system. Costco sells some nice systems for a reasonable price. You could even get some fake ones and post them conspicuously and post signs on your property.

In all honesty, if someone wants to break into a house or backyard and steal stuff...there's not much one could do to stop them. It's all about deterring people.


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## cmosuna (Apr 26, 2012)

Neal said:


> It could have been a lot worse, I am glad you were able to recover almost all of your tortoises and turtles.
> 
> If you want to sleep well at night, I'd recommend a security camera system. Costco sells some nice systems for a reasonable price. You could even get some fake ones and post them conspicuously and post signs on your property.
> 
> In all honesty, if someone wants to break into a house or backyard and steal stuff...there's not much one could do to stop them. It's all about deterring people.



Yeah we have started to add motion lighting and such. We are starting fundraising to help us not only reinforce our security but also to increase the ways we can get education out beyond our Face Book page and talks we do. I would like to add cameras that also double as live streaming webcams. Maybe raise some funds to build more pens, increase pond size etc so we can take in more animals in need. Once we have raised our wall and added some form of painful but legal deterant. If anyone would like to help the Osuna Turtle and Tortoise House in these efforts you can donate here http://fnd.us/c/cIjg5


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## Tom (Apr 26, 2012)

Great ideas from Neal. A good friend owned a whole herd of leopards, a Galapagos and a few odds and ends and he set up a camera system like Neal mentioned. He could monitor his tortoises and his yard from any computer with internet access. I would go to his place to care for his torts in his absence and he would call me to chit chat while I was with his torts. If an unfamiliar car pulled into the driveway, or the front of the house, he knew it and had the license number. He had one camera that could pan and zoom. You could go online and count Mazuri pieces from across the yard... The system came with a hard drive that would record 30 days of activity and it was easy to set up.

Anyhow, I just can't get over the cops idiocy on this one. So let me get this straight... If I come to Stanton, steal your car, drive it around for a few days, and then return it before I get caught with it, then I am NOT guilty of committing any crimes???!!! Man, I'll never pay for another rental car again. If its perfectly legal and not a crime to steal things, use and abuse them, and then return them after a few days... wow does that open a lot of new doors for me. I can "borrow" a backhoe and some earth moving equipment from nearby construction sites and get some really cool tortoise enclosure work done.

Hey Chad, would you ask your local incompetent boobs... uhhhh I mean "law enforcement" officers, if these rules only apply at their station, or is this a statewide, or national, policy. I'd hate to find out the hard way that stealing/returning actually WAS a crime somewhere else in the state or country and actually have law enforcement do their job and charge me with an actual crime. I'll bet none of these officers involved would hesitate to write you a speeding ticket for going five miles an hour over the posted limit. Next time I get pulled over I will simply tell them, "Oh yes, I DID make an illegal U-turn back there, but NOW I'm driving straight in my lane and so what I did back there doesn't count any more..."

I'm sorry man... I'm sorry this happened to you and I can't imagine how upsetting this must be. I am FURIOUS on your behalf. I think I will call the Stanton PD and just chew on them for a bit. This is incomprehensible!


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## lisalove (Apr 26, 2012)

Love the 'rant' Tom!!!
I'm pretty sure there are consequences even if you attempt a crime-apparently Stanton is exempt from the rest of California...let's all move there!!!
I think it comes down to being a squeaky wheel. If this happened to me, I would be one of the loudest 'wheels' Stanton PD has heard in a very long time!!! 
I think that stupid family would get more than an earful from me too! 

Really stinks that things like this happen.


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## SailingMystic (Apr 26, 2012)

cmosuna said:


> We have dug and looked, we have since recovered all but one. Sadly she is a great big old female that we are very fond of. Hopefully she will turn up soon =/ Two more of them turned up for us yesterday, everyone in the condos behind us is aware and on the lookout.



Where was she last? So sorry. Soooo sad. I wish I could do something. I worry too- we finally put a tall fence up-- ESP since we have a pond (a child could fall in).


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## cmosuna (Apr 26, 2012)

No it's not that you can commit crime, it's their age. Because they were all like 10 they wouldn't do a thing, if they would have been adults I could have pressed charges. But because of their age the DA won't consider it. It's not a Stanton problem it's a CA and many other states problems. If you are a kid you can do whatever you want pretty much. If there would have been sever property damage I could have take then parents to civil court to get money but that's the extent of it.


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## JoesMum (Apr 26, 2012)

In the UK the age of Criminal Responsibility is 10 and these kids could be dealt with


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## SailingMystic (Apr 26, 2012)

JoesMum said:


> In the UK the age of Criminal Responsibility is 10 and these kids could be dealt with



What would they do there? Curious.. Interested. We need to be tougher.


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## Snapper925 (Apr 26, 2012)

Barbed wire!!! Then you could follow the blood trail and check with hospitals


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## JoesMum (Apr 26, 2012)

SailingMystic said:


> What would they do there? Curious.. Interested. We need to be tougher.



They would undoubtedly be made 'wards of court' and taken into care while it went to court. After that, it depends. They could end up in a young offenders institute. At that age, with no previous offences, it's more likely it would be a possible long term care order and a lot of social services involvement to try and set them back on the right path.

These kids are usually school refusers and every effort would be made to try and get them back into meaningful education.


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## IRISHD15 (Apr 26, 2012)

Hi cmosuna,
sorry to hear about your troubles 
But as some of the other guys hav mentioned, Security camera's are an EXCELLENT deterrent to would be intruders and these days can be setup very cheap...
If cashflow is an issue then fake cams are just as effective.... less than $20 on ebay will get you 2 dummies that will even start panning when motion is detected.

Hope things work out for u !!


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## Neltharion (Apr 26, 2012)

A lot of people are surprised by the unresponsiveness by law enforcement to this situation. Unfortunately, I'm not surprised at all. Stanton is in Orange County. Orange County has already made huge budget cuts and still has a deficit. They also went bankrupt some 18 years ago. Sherriff deputies and other offices like the District Attorney have already faced huge cuts. Its an unfortunate result of the poor economy that, "We're not going to do anything about a couple of kids that took a few turtles."

I work for California's Department of Justice. I investigate these types of claims where local law enforcement acted inappropriately or failed to act. 

One response that I got investigating a claim that shoplifters weren't prosecuted, and its very typical of the types of responses we get in these types of cases, "We can spend our time and resources going after killers, rapists, child molesters, armed robbers, drunk drivers and the like. Or we can take people and money away from that to prosecute those kids that ran out of the gas station with $12 worth of sandwiches and bottles of soda that they didn't pay for. What would you have us do?" My supervisor had me close this complaint with no further action taken.


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## ErikaO (Apr 26, 2012)

Neltharion said:


> A lot of people are surprised by the unresponsiveness by law enforcement to this situation. Unfortunately, I'm not surprised at all. Stanton is in Orange County. Orange County has already made huge budget cuts and still has a deficit. They also went bankrupt some 18 years ago. Sherriff deputies and other offices like the District Attorney have already faced huge cuts. Its an unfortunate result of the poor economy that, "We're not going to do anything about a couple of kids that took a few turtles."
> 
> I work for California's Department of Justice. I investigate these types of claims where local law enforcement acted inappropriately or failed to act.
> 
> One response that I got investigating a claim that shoplifters weren't prosecuted, and its very typical of the types of responses we get in these types of cases, "We can spend our time and resources going after killers, rapists, child molesters, armed robbers, drunk drivers and the like. Or we can take people and money away from that to prosecute those kids that ran out of the gas station with $12 worth of sandwiches and bottles of soda that they didn't pay for. What would you have us do?" My supervisor had me close this complaint with no further action taken.



Wow, don't they understand that to allow thes young trouble-making, non-parented children to get away with these "lesser" crimes, those same children can become our robbers, muderers, and child molesters!!??! Don't we teach our children to stay away from the "lesser" drugs because they only lead them to the harsher ones?!! Sheeeesh! We better wake up and start holding people (adults and children) accountable for their actions or we're in for a whole lot of hurt!!


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## Madkins007 (Apr 26, 2012)

FYI about booby traps- signs won't make it legal, or if it does, will not help in court. Putting up the trap means you intentionally planned to hurt someone- premeditated and in cold blood. Adding the sign means the whole thing was done intentionally- no possibility of an accident.

All they have to do in court is claim they did not see the sign- it was obscured, faded, fallen, they don't read English, they misunderstood what it meant, etc.

If they can also find a way to make it seem that they were there for some innocent reason, the jury will award them everything you've ever dreamed of.

It is kind of like the classic 'beware of dog' sign Catch 22- if you don't put up a sign, and someone is bitten, you can claim you had no idea this would happen. Putting up a sign means you KNOW your dog is dangerous, so if it hurts someone, it is YOUR liability, period, no matter why the other person was on your land.


Sigh. This sort of thing ticks me off royally, but sometimes, the smart path is to count your blessings, cut your losses, prevent a recurrence and move on with your life. It sucks, but we are never promised happiness or fairness in this life.


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## dmmj (Apr 26, 2012)

What about a warning sign that says " WARNING dog shoots trespassers"?


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## lynnedit (Apr 26, 2012)

Lol!

I know people put in electric wired fences out on ranches, and in yards to keep predators out. That does not seem quite the same as a trap, but who knows?


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## SailingMystic (Apr 27, 2012)

JoesMum said:


> They would undoubtedly be made 'wards of court' and taken into care while it went to court. After that, it depends. They could end up in a young offenders institute. At that age, with no previous offences, it's more likely it would be a possible long term care order and a lot of social services involvement to try and set them back on the right path.
> 
> These kids are usually school refusers and every effort would be made to try and get them back into meaningful education.



See we need this system in the US for each state. Instead we rely on irresponsible parents to pick up the ball. Mine were super strict - I don't see that anymore here. Something's gonna give...


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## Utah Lynn (Apr 27, 2012)

cmosuna said:


> Tom said:
> 
> 
> > VERY good info EJ.
> ...



Maybe ICE would be interested in these people?


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## babylove6635 (Apr 27, 2012)

thats horrible i am so sorry for you its bad enough when you loose them on your oun but for someone to steel them is not right and im am trying to be nice about it i hope you can get them back unharmed and fry the theven bast.......!


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## Tom (Apr 27, 2012)

Madkins007 said:


> Sigh. This sort of thing ticks me off royally, but sometimes, the smart path is to count your blessings, cut your losses, prevent a recurrence and move on with your life. It sucks, but we are never promised happiness or fairness in this life.



NO! NO Mark! This sort of apathy and defeated attitude is exactly WHY this sort of thing happens. What you suggest might be smart, all things considered, for an individual in the very short term, but as ErikaO pointed out in post #75, it will lead to "bigger and better" crimes for these kids. These kids just learned a valuable lesson that bad behavior has NO consequences and the cops aren't gonna do JACK! Because of all this liability and fear of the righteous good man being persecuted or prosecuted, the bad people thrive, perfect their craft and make a great living out of crimes against the innocent. I don't remember what person said it, but the quote is something like this: "All that has to happen for evil to prosper, is for good men to do nothing". SOMETHING must be done. Every person must determine what their "comfort" level is, and how far they are willing to take it, but I, for one, will not stand by and do nothing when the law of the land fails miserably. I won't talk about what I've done or what I would do on a public forum, but these people would regret ever stepping foot in MY yard... And consequently would think long and hard about ever doing it to someone else... Crimes MUST be punished, one way or another, or our entire society will continue to crumble...


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## Neal (Apr 27, 2012)

Tom, so what action do you suggest?


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## Tom (Apr 27, 2012)

Neal said:


> Tom, so what action do you suggest?



I have no suggestions to offer on a public forum. Each person must decide what is right for themselves. I am saying that for their own good, and for the good of society, those parents and those kids need to be suitably punished for their wrongdoings. If the law won't do it, then somebody else must. Any action should be considered and executed very carefully. None of this is a matter to be taken lightly.


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## cmosuna (Apr 28, 2012)

It's sad but we are trying to turn this into a positive, a motivation to push harder for education and awareness in our community as well as others. This story on different sites got thousands of hits and was talked about and shared by others as well. Please check out our FB Page and help us grow our educational efforts by Liking, Sharing and possibly donating through our paypal account. We would like to raise enough money to install security cams that double as web cams, hopefully promoting these in schools to be watched and taught about in conjunction with the onsite discussions we have with children and adults about our shelled friends. Please visit us at www.facebook.com/osunaturtlehouse


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## Laura (Apr 28, 2012)

Go to the Media.... if for no other reason, to educate...


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## jaizei (Apr 28, 2012)

Utah Lynn said:


> Maybe ICE would be interested in these people?



What makes you say this?





Tom said:


> Madkins007 said:
> 
> 
> > Sigh. This sort of thing ticks me off royally, but sometimes, the smart path is to count your blessings, cut your losses, prevent a recurrence and move on with your life. It sucks, but we are never promised happiness or fairness in this life.
> ...




Completely agree. Some neighborhood kids walked across my lawn once. 

Once.

Next time I saw them, they made sure stay on the other side of the street as they _rolled_ by. LOL



Promoting vigilantism against 10 year old _children_ is a bit much.


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## terryo (Apr 28, 2012)

I would do absolutely NOTHING.....for the next six months. Let things quiet down completely. Where I come from, these people would never do something like this again. 


"Crimes MUST be punished, one way or another, or our entire society will continue to crumble..." IMHO....your are right Tom!


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## *Barracuda_50* (Apr 28, 2012)

ErikaO said:


> Neltharion said:
> 
> 
> > A lot of people are surprised by the unresponsiveness by law enforcement to this situation. Unfortunately, I'm not surprised at all. Stanton is in Orange County. Orange County has already made huge budget cuts and still has a deficit. They also went bankrupt some 18 years ago. Sherriff deputies and other offices like the District Attorney have already faced huge cuts. Its an unfortunate result of the poor economy that, "We're not going to do anything about a couple of kids that took a few turtles."
> ...





Tom said:


> Madkins007 said:
> 
> 
> > Sigh. This sort of thing ticks me off royally, but sometimes, the smart path is to count your blessings, cut your losses, prevent a recurrence and move on with your life. It sucks, but we are never promised happiness or fairness in this life.
> ...



Here here i totaly agree with you Tom,

dont dare tresspass on my property and or even think about steeling from me you would not like the outcome. Im not gona say anymore as this is not the place to do so..


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## Madkins007 (Apr 29, 2012)

Tom said:


> Madkins007 said:
> 
> 
> > Sigh. This sort of thing ticks me off royally, but sometimes, the smart path is to count your blessings, cut your losses, prevent a recurrence and move on with your life. It sucks, but we are never promised happiness or fairness in this life.
> ...



I'm just saying to pick your battles. Once you determine that no public agency will help and you decide to carry on the effort on your own, there are some things to consider. 

1. Are you crossing a line? What they did was wrong. Is what you are thinking about any better when viewed by an impartial observer... such as a cop or judge? 

2. Escalation sucks. Sure, you could carry out the retaliation, but there is always the chance that they will retaliate back- whether out of anger or honor or sheer cussedness. Then what?

3. What do you really want out of this and why? Some kids stole the turtles, and then they and the family treated the valuable animals like garbage but most were recovered. Do you want financial correction? Take them to small claims court. Do you want them prosecuted? You already know that will not happen. Do you want the kids 'scared straight'? I'd bet that there is not much you could do to them that is any worse than what society and their circumstances are already doing to them. 

4. Some of it is also a more vague, 'personal energy' kind of thing. How much more of your life do you want to invest in this? Some people at some times of their lives have the energy to pursue matters like this, others do not. I don't think there is anything automatically noble about pursing what sounds like an already troubled group of kids, nor anything cowardly about saying 'screw it, I'm done' and moving on in situations like this.

There are times to dig in and wage war, and times to decide that you are not going to fight today. It is entirely your decision as to which it is for you today.


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## dmmj (Apr 29, 2012)

Well if nothing else this thread is making me aware of whose property to not go onto.


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## cmosuna (May 4, 2012)

Great news, as of today everyone is now back home with us!


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## lisalove (May 4, 2012)

Yay!!!
Where was the last one?


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## lynnedit (May 4, 2012)

That is incredible! Way to get the message out there.


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## cljohnson (May 4, 2012)

WOW. Great news.
As I said before I was appalled by the response of both the authorities and the "parents". 
Very impressed with with your diligence handling the situation and keeping us all posted. 
So happy to see a positive ending to a story like this.


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## froghaven5 (May 5, 2012)

Awesome! So great to hear everyone is safe at home!


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## SailingMystic (May 5, 2012)

cmosuna said:


> Great news, as of today everyone is now back home with us!



Yes!! I was holding out hope for you to find the last one!! So it was the more mature female that made its way back after like 3 weeks or more??? How???


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