# Whats the verdict with compact flourescent bulbs these days?



## Mjdeisher (Aug 17, 2012)

I've read and read and read and everything is conflicting. So my question to you all is are cf bulbs safe now? I bought on but am thinking about returning it. It is not the typical coil shape but rather a Few U shaped tubes. I know they used to be harmful but not so much anymore? I'm getting a baby Greek soon. I've heard that MVB is to localized with heat and UVB for a baby. Tortoisesupply.com says they aren't damaging anymore but i want other opinions. So what's the deal? 

Here is what I bought: 




Keep it or return it??


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## wellington (Aug 17, 2012)

I believe most feel, why chance it. I wouldn't.


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## Edna (Aug 17, 2012)

I just posed a similar question. If you look at post #7 from Madkins, there's some good info.

http://www.tortoiseforum.org/Thread-Indoor-lighting-questions#axzz23qFNVJcY


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## jaizei (Aug 17, 2012)

I don't use any UVB lamps currently, but I don't think CFLs are harmful when used properly.


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## Mjdeisher (Aug 17, 2012)

Edna said:


> I just posed a similar question. If you look at post #7 from Madkins, there's some good info.
> 
> http://www.tortoiseforum.org/Thread-Indoor-lighting-questions#axzz23qFNVJcY



So i wonder if the U shaped bulb would be the same as a coil with the hotspots. 

I'm definitely switching to MVB as soon as the baby is a couple years old. 



jaizei said:


> I don't use any UVB lamps currently, but I don't think CFLs are harmful when used properly.



I see it as, they make instructions for a reason. I plan on turning the bulb on for a week or so before the baby gets here just to get past that initial burn-in phase.


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## Madkins007 (Aug 17, 2012)

Mjdeisher said:


> Edna said:
> 
> 
> > I just posed a similar question. If you look at post #7 from Madkins, there's some good info.
> ...





I don't think so- they do not create the same sort of hot spot with the coils although they do make a bit of a focal point in the front. I'd use them sideways as well.


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## Tom (Aug 17, 2012)

I would not use any type of compact florescent bulb. I have seen too many animals eyes get damaged under them.

Nothing wrong with a MVB for a baby. They can become a problem for big animals or high domed tortoises because if the basking temp is set correctly at ground level by adjusting the height of the fixture, the top of a large tortoises shell will be much too close to the bulb, and therefore too hot. The solution for large tortoises is to use more than one bulb to create a larger warm area and to set the temp for the height of the tortoises shell, not ground level.

The best solution in my opinion is to just use a regular incandescent flood bulb for the time when the baby is indoors, and get the baby into a safe outdoor enclosure for real sunshine as much as possible.


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## TylerStewart (Aug 18, 2012)

Mjdeisher said:


> Tortoisesupply.com says they aren't damaging anymore but i want other opinions. So what's the deal?



Like someone else said, the problem was the way that they are used.... Somebody told me that ExoTerra had realized theirs were creating problems and discontinued them, although I still see them on their site (they may not have updated lately). As far as I know, every problem with them was pointed at the ExoTerra brand or generic tight-coil bulbs. ZooMeds is more of a tube light with only one "turn" in the shape. Regardless, if they are installed properly neither should really be a problem. When people hang a "raw bulb" without a dome, the light projects in all directions including horizontally, which it shouldn't. If placed directly overhead in a dome, they shouldn't be a problem. I used them (ExoTerra) for a long time prior to any problems being realized, and I didn't really have any issues that I blamed on the bulb. I now use the ZooMed tube-ish ones in certain arrangements and they work great. I have some of my most valuable tortoises being raised under them. The light coming in from the side is a problem. In nature with the sun overhead, the head shape of a tortoise (eyebrows) prevents sunlight from hitting directly in the eye. In captivity, in a cage with a bulb that is visible from the side, it hits the eyes directly. Basically, try not to let your tortoise have a direct line of sight to the bulb itself, and it shouldn't become an issue, if all that makes sense. You can mount them above and have the dome pointing slightly _away_ from the main part of the cage to help prevent this.


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## Mjdeisher (Aug 18, 2012)

TylerStewart said:


> Like someone else said, the problem was the way that they are used.... Somebody told me that ExoTerra had realized theirs were creating problems and discontinued them, although I still see them on their site (they may not have updated lately). As far as I know, every problem with them was pointed at the ExoTerra brand or generic tight-coil bulbs. ZooMeds is more of a tube light with only one "turn" in the shape. Regardless, if they are installed properly neither should really be a problem. When people hang a "raw bulb" without a dome, the light projects in all directions including horizontally, which it shouldn't. If placed directly overhead in a dome, they shouldn't be a problem. I used them (ExoTerra) for a long time prior to any problems being realized, and I didn't really have any issues that I blamed on the bulb. I now use the ZooMed tube-ish ones in certain arrangements and they work great. I have some of my most valuable tortoises being raised under them. The light coming in from the side is a problem. In nature with the sun overhead, the head shape of a tortoise (eyebrows) prevents sunlight from hitting directly in the eye. In captivity, in a cage with a bulb that is visible from the side, it hits the eyes directly. Basically, try not to let your tortoise have a direct line of sight to the bulb itself, and it shouldn't become an issue, if all that makes sense. You can mount them above and have the dome pointing slightly away from the main part of the cage to help prevent this.



Thanks! I will go ahead and keep them and just get the right size of dome. It doesn't fit in the mini dome, it pokes out an inch or so. It really was going to be a pain to try and figure out how to suspend a tube bulb. I just needed some direction with how to keep them from becoming damaging. Thanks again Tyler! I can't wait to order my baby from you!


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## Tom (Aug 18, 2012)

If your babies eyes swell up and start oozing, and he starts wiping at his eyes with his front legs, or he becomes lethargic, hides all the time and refuses to eat, you will know why...


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## Mjdeisher (Aug 18, 2012)

Any way I go, there is not a one way straightforward option. MVB have mixed reviews for hatchlings, cf's have mixed reviews, even normal full spectrum tube lights have damaging effects if it is too small of a percentage or to high of uv light.


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## Laurie (Aug 18, 2012)

A lot of people on here have seen the tort eye irritation that these bulbs can sometimes cause, my opinion would be why chance it?


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## Tom (Aug 18, 2012)

I understand the difficulty here, but even the people who say its okay to use a cfl admit to seeing problems with them. By contrast, I have never seen any problem with any reptile under a MVB. I know you don't know me, but I started working retail pets back in 1986. I've seen a lot of stuff with a lot of reptiles. I have personally seen several reptiles have their eyes damaged by cfl UV bulbs, not even counting all the cases seen here on the forum. Yet in all that time, I have never seen any tortoise or any other reptile suffer any sort of damage from a MVB. I started using MVBs when they first came out in the late 90's. I was able to bring several animals back from the onset of MBD under them during the chilly parts of winter here.

I still think the BEST solution is to not use any artificial UV at all, and get your tortoise out in the sun a few times a week or more. This is what I usually do now and it works great for me. I use low wattage regular incandescent flood bulbs for when my little ones are indoors and just put them outside in outdoor pens most days. They sleep inside at night. Will your climate allow for this? Kristina is one of our moderators here. She lives in Northern MI, and uses no UV bulbs of any kind. Her tortoises live outside every possible minute of the year in the natural sunshine, and she brings them in for the winter. She has many ages of many species, and this works perfectly well for her.


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## jaizei (Aug 18, 2012)

Mjdeisher said:


> Any way I go, there is not a one way straightforward option. MVB have mixed reviews for hatchlings, cf's have mixed reviews, even normal full spectrum tube lights have damaging effects if it is too small of a percentage or to high of uv light.



All the different types of UVB lamps have had problems. They all have pros and cons. You just have to pick the option that is best for your situation and monitor it, regardless of the type.


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## Mjdeisher (Aug 18, 2012)

Tom said:


> I still think the BEST solution is to not use any artificial UV at all, and get your tortoise out in the sun a few times a week or more. This is what I usually do now and it works great for me. I use low wattage regular incandescent flood bulbs for when my little ones are indoors and just put them outside in outdoor pens most days. They sleep inside at night. Will your climate allow for this? Kristina is one of our moderators here. She lives in Northern MI, and uses no UV bulbs of any kind. Her tortoises live outside every possible minute of the year in the natural sunshine, and she brings them in for the winter. She has many ages of many species, and this works perfectly well for her.



I'm working in getting an outdoor setup for him on the balcony. I live in an apartment in northern Indiana for now, will be moving south in less than a year. I'm nervous about such a small baby being outside, but I'm gonna do my best not to be an overprotective mom. Haha. 

FYI, I went and got a regular tube lighting setup... A baby is not one for a newbie to take risks on... So I caved. Lol. Now on to finding a way to suspend this thing... Any pics/suggestions would be helpful!


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## jaizei (Aug 18, 2012)

Mjdeisher said:


> FYI, I went and got a regular tube lighting setup... A baby is not one for a newbie to take risks on... So I caved. Lol. Now on to finding a way to suspend this thing... Any pics/suggestions would be helpful!



What's your enclosure look like? 

I think something like this is easiest. Just make the vertical pieces longer. PVC is easy to work with and lightweight. If your enclosure is a table, you can leave off the 'feet' and use standoff straps to secure the stand to the sides.


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## Mjdeisher (Aug 18, 2012)

jaizei said:


> What's your enclosure look like?
> 
> I think something like this is easiest. Just make the vertical pieces longer. PVC is easy to work with and lightweight. If your enclosure is a table, you can leave off the 'feet' and use standoff straps to secure the stand to the sides.



No tort yet so don't freak overe there being... Well... Nothing. I'm just working on temps and stuff right now. 

I love the PVC pipe idea!! 

View attachment 26431


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## Tom (Aug 18, 2012)

In that set up it might be easiest to just lay the tube and fixture on top of your wire. Your basking bulb will work better if it is mounted directly over head pointing straight down. Those stick on thermometer are useless. You need a remote probed thermometer so you can move the probe around the enclosure and check all your temps, not just the temp where the stick on sits. I like to use a temp gun too for setting temps and checking them periodically.


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## Mjdeisher (Aug 18, 2012)

I have a temp gun  I just have the stickies for the initial testing process. I need to see the constant temp to start with.


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