# ANOTHER Night Box Thread...



## Tom

I did it again. 
And I'm going to keep doing it too! 

Here is the latest night box. Its similar to the others, but I wanted to show more of the electrics involved and how I use them. I made this one for my two returning Gpp females. I gave these two girls to a friend in 2010 and he raised them. They both turned out to be female, while most of mine are male. He offered to give them back to me in the hopes of producing some babies in the future. They will live alone for a couple of months for quarantine and fecal exam purposes, but then they will join the other girls.

Here we go...

Here is the almost finished box showing the yet uncovered insulation inside the walls.








Here is the assortment of equipment going into this box:







The heat mat and radiant heat panel have been mounted here, as has the shoe box that will hold all the excess wires.







Here you can see all the cords and the thermostat all hooked up and stuffed into the shoe box. You can also see my thermostat probe hanging on the wall on the "cool" side. Notice the "drip loops" on the cord coming in to the box and inside the box. More on that later.







Close up of the shoe box:







See how nice it looks with the cords all contained?  Notice that drip loop again...







A wider view of the whole thing. In this one you can see my GFI circuit that I'm plugged into:







Here is that "drip loop" that I keep talking about. I learned this back in my early aquarium days. You see, water runs downhill. Amazing right?! In the event of an earthquake or other aquarium splashes, the idea is that if you have a "loop" so that your cords always run downhill first and then uphill into your outlets, water will not be guided into your outlet. Instead it will come to the bottom of the loop and drip down to the ground harmlessly. I did one outside this new tortoise box and inside, just to be safe.







Here it is open for business.






In my excitement I forgot to get pics of the new inhabitants. I'll get some pics and post those later.


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## Team Gomberg

Do you have issues with the boxes not being under extra cover? Like with rain, or does the exterior paint on the wood protect it? 
If it sits in full sun, will the box heat up?

I haven't had to worry about rain or shade because my box is under a covered awning but I wonder how necessary that really is. I'm considering moving it. I'm also building insulated house #2 right now and the spot I want to move it to, isn't covered.


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## JennBell0725

I'd like to know that too. I just put a tarp over mine until we get enough good weather then I'm going to put some metal on it. The Louisiana monsoon like weather has really tested mine. I don't think the wood will hold up too long uncovered here


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## pam

That is awesome


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## Team Gomberg

just to clarify the rain half of my question:
I understand how the drip loop works with the cords. I do that, too. I'm specifically curious about the flat, painted roof and how it holds up in the rainy weather. I notice all of your boxes are exposed to the elements. My non insulated tortoise houses all have a roof tilted back at an angle covered with roofing shingles. So, I know the rain just runs down towards the back.

Thanks Tom. You help us out more than you know


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## Tom

Team Gomberg said:


> Do you have issues with the boxes not being under extra cover? Like with rain, or does the exterior paint on the wood protect it?
> If it sits in full sun, will the box heat up?
> 
> I haven't had to worry about rain or shade because my box is under a covered awning but I wonder how necessary that really is. I'm considering moving it. I'm also building insulated house #2 right now and the spot I want to move it to, isn't covered.



No issues. I've had some boxes sitting outside for years. It looks a little weathered, but it still works just fine. On the rare occasion we get rain, it just runs off. The insulation works both ways. Keeps them warmer in winter and cooler in summer. On 100+ days, the boxes creep into the 90's. They get full sun in the morning but shade all afternoon. The enclosure is about 20' deep and I run about 7' of shade in the summer, and 3' in winter.

I've considered using roofing tiles and waterproofing the top, but the lids are already so heavy. Especially on the 8' boxes.

You need to bring the family and come up for a tour. We gotta stop procrastinating.




JennBell0725 said:


> I'd like to know that too. I just put a tarp over mine until we get enough good weather then I'm going to put some metal on it. The Louisiana monsoon like weather has really tested mine. I don't think the wood will hold up too long uncovered here



I've heard about that wood rotting LA weather, but we just don't have that problem here. It is so dry all the time.


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## Team Gomberg

Tom, I already planned to email ya about it. I figured we'd come in Spring when everything is at it's prettiest 

Thanks for the answers. And I like this new shade of green you used


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## DeanS

I can't believe you didn't tell how you came up with this new color...good stuff!


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## wellington

Looks great Tom as always. Thanks for always sharing.


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## Tom

Team Gomberg said:


> Tom, I already planned to email ya about it. I figured we'd come in Spring when everything is at it's prettiest
> 
> Thanks for the answers. And I like this new shade of green you used



Spring? What are you talking about? We had two weeks of winter at the end of November and its been spring ever since. Didn't you notice?


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## Tom

DeanS said:


> I can't believe you didn't tell how you came up with this new color...good stuff!



Okay. I'll tell them.

I wanted the tortoise night boxes to sort of "blend in" a bit more, so I took a sample of the dirt down to HD. They put my baggie of dirt in their color analyzer machine and my new tortoise box is the color the computer came up with. I rather like it and it does blend in much better than the green ones.


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## Team Gomberg

hahahahaha- Tom the color story is hilarious!! Honestly, I was never a fan of your original green color. That's why I commented on this new shade of green


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## argus333

looks good, i think I'm going to hardwire my next box directly to house box. i used plastic floor covering on my last house makes for easier clean ups.


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## kathyth

That is just wonderful, Tom!
Thanks for the step by step photo's!


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## marcy4hope

glad to see this thread tom. i had your other thread saved about your night box with the leopards in it, and was wanting a design for one sulcata, so this is perfect. getting started next week hopefully. can't wait to get "lois" outside full-time. i'm in misouri though, with extremely cold winters and muggy humid summers - any thoughts on changes i should make as a big difference in our climate from yours?


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## marcy4hope

marcy4hope said:


> glad to see this thread tom. i had your other thread saved about your night box with the leopards in it, and was wanting a design for one sulcata, so this is perfect. getting started next week hopefully. can't wait to get "lois" outside full-time. i'm in misouri though, with extremely cold winters and muggy humid summers - any thoughts on changes i should make as a big difference in our climate from yours?


another couple questions, tom - what size was this night box - and what wattage do you have on that radiant heater?


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## Tom

If your climate is humid, you probably won't need, and shouldn't use, the water tubs in the box. Other than that, I'd do it the same.

This box is 4x4x2'.

That is an 80 watt Radiant Heat Panel. It is the 12x21" one. And the Kane mat is 18x28" and also around 80 watts.


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## Shakudo

Wow very nicely done!

Joey


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## samsmom

night box looks great! my husband is in the process of building ours. have a few questions: are the heat mat and RHP both plugged into the thermostat, do you have any type of substrate inside the box and just curious as to why you have the thermostat inside a baggie? our box is 4x3x2 and for a 2 yo sulcata.


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## Dizisdalife

I like the new color. Are you going to use a fan for circulation?


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## Tom

samsmom said:


> night box looks great! my husband is in the process of building ours. have a few questions: are the heat mat and RHP both plugged into the thermostat, do you have any type of substrate inside the box and just curious as to why you have the thermostat inside a baggie? our box is 4x3x2 and for a 2 yo sulcata.



1. Yes. Both the RHP and Kane mat are plugged into the same thermostat.
2. I've tried hay, dirt and orchid bark. It all get "soiled" and has to be changed.
3. I keep the thermostat in a baggie to protect it from my dusty dirty environment.


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## tortdad

i started mine today too. 4'x6' with a slope roof. One wall is 2' the other is 2'-6". Still need to build the lid and seal the outside.


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## samsmom

Tom said:


> 1. Yes. Both the RHP and Kane mat are plugged into the same thermostat.
> 2. I've tried hay, dirt and orchid bark. It all get "soiled" and has to be changed.
> 3. I keep the thermostat in a baggie to protect it from my dusty dirty environment.


OK then let me ask a stupid question: if there is not any substrate inside for samson to "dig" in then he would just keep scratching the walls and then get splinters?


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## Tom

I don't think that is a stupid question.

I went with no substrate for years and mine don't dig or get splinters.


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## tortdad

Got my box 95% done. Just need to mount the heater and build the front door. I wish I would have put the door on the 4' end instead of the 6' end but it works great. Fantastic design tom.


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## Tom

I think you will be amazed at how little electricity you will need now. Run it for a while and let us know please.


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## samsmom

I've re-read this thread several times but don't see where you mention the vinyl door strips anywhere. where did you get the vinyl?


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## Jtort

samsmom said:


> I've re-read this thread several times but don't see where you mention the vinyl door strips anywhere. where did you get the vinyl?



Some have bought it at Home Depot and others at Walmart in the fabric section. I will be buying some from Home Depot this week. I'll post the SKU once I buy it.


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## Jtort

I bought the vinyl at Home Depot today. It's 27" wide and costs $2.27 per linear foot. The Store SKU:543895

Here is the link for it:
http://m.homedepot.com/p/Multy-Home...ice-Length-Roll-Runner-MT5310062US/202280473/


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## bouaboua

Great idea and I can learn from this.


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## Tom

samsmom said:


> I've re-read this thread several times but don't see where you mention the vinyl door strips anywhere. where did you get the vinyl?



I got it from a really awesome tortoise lady I know. It came in a 100' roll and its the heavy duty stuff they use in commercial freezers. You could probably find it on line.


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## Amanda81

I see on this box you used a heating pad thing. I'm redoing an old storage shed for the Sudans for them to stay in over the winter months. I have been scoping out those oil heaters as many people have suggested. What size heater would I need to heat the shed? I'm going to construct a box inside the shed after I insulate the shed and the actual box area that they will sleep in will be 5'wX8'lX3't. What size wattage wise I guess. The descriptions on them aren't really saying what room size they heat or anything. I found some that said 500watt, 1500 watt, etc.


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## Amanda81

Tom said:


> I got it from a really awesome tortoise lady I know. It came in a 100' roll and its the heavy duty stuff they use in commercial freezers. You could probably find it on line.


The manager at the local Lowes was nice enough to cut me some off a roll they use in their own maintenance department. Course he made up a price and charged me for it but that was fine cause we seriously could not find any anywhere. That's y one of the Sudans new name is Jeff. Lol.


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## Reptile Lover

Do you have a post on how you built the box?


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## Tom

Reptile Lâ™¡ver said:


> Do you have a post on how you built the box?



This thread was more about the electrical stuff that goes into it.

This one shows more of the construction:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/my-best-night-box-design-yet.66867/


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## ksanchez

Tom said:


> I did it again.
> And I'm going to keep doing it too!
> 
> Here is the latest night box. Its similar to the others, but I wanted to show more of the electrics involved and how I use them. I made this one for my two returning Gpp females. I gave these two girls to a friend in 2010 and he raised them. They both turned out to be female, while most of mine are male. He offered to give them back to me in the hopes of producing some babies in the future. They will live alone for a couple of months for quarantine and fecal exam purposes, but then they will join the other girls.
> 
> Here we go...
> 
> Here is the almost finished box showing the yet uncovered insulation inside the walls.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @Tom thank you for another great post with lots pictures and details shown. I am going to use some of what I learned making my first box in addition to some of your ideas.
> 
> Here is the assortment of equipment going into this box:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The heat mat and radiant heat panel have been mounted here, as has the shoe box that will hold all the excess wires.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here you can see all the cords and the thermostat all hooked up and stuffed into the shoe box. You can also see my thermostat probe hanging on the wall on the "cool" side. Notice the "drip loops" on the cord coming in to the box and inside the box. More on that later.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Close up of the shoe box:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> See how nice it looks with the cords all contained?  Notice that drip loop again...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A wider view of the whole thing. In this one you can see my GFI circuit that I'm plugged into:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is that "drip loop" that I keep talking about. I learned this back in my early aquarium days. You see, water runs downhill. Amazing right?! In the event of an earthquake or other aquarium splashes, the idea is that if you have a "loop" so that your cords always run downhill first and then uphill into your outlets, water will not be guided into your outlet. Instead it will come to the bottom of the loop and drip down to the ground harmlessly. I did one outside this new tortoise box and inside, just to be safe.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here it is open for business.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In my excitement I forgot to get pics of the new inhabitants. I'll get some pics and post those later.


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## daddykirbs

Is the 4'x4'x2' size good for one adult sulcata only?


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## Tom

daddykirbs said:


> Is the 4'x4'x2' size good for one adult sulcata only?



Yes.


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## Gillian M

A very warm welcome to the forum!


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## dozers butler

could you say what the thickness is of the plywood you used


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## Yvonne G

I think he mentioned someplace that he uses a thinner plywood because the thick stuff makes the box too heavy. The rigid foam insulation does the job just fine with the thin plywood.


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## Tom

dozers butler said:


> could you say what the thickness is of the plywood you used



Currently I've been using the 11/32. I used thicker stuff in the past, but it was heavy, and the thinner stuff does the job just fine.


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## dozers butler

Tom , just another question for you. im in the process of building my night box for dozer , and im curious, the box im building is a 4x4x2 do you recommend the oil heater for this size box or the , heat pad radiant heat panel. also if you could give a list of electrics it would help me to try to round all the stuff up for the box. thanks a bunch. I appreciate your time .


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## Tom

dozers butler said:


> Tom , just another question for you. im in the process of building my night box for dozer , and im curious, the box im building is a 4x4x2 do you recommend the oil heater for this size box or the , heat pad radiant heat panel. also if you could give a list of electrics it would help me to try to round all the stuff up for the box. thanks a bunch. I appreciate your time .



Oil heaters take up a fair amount of floor space once you close them in. This can work for some situations, but for a large sulcata, I prefer to leave the floor space open.

For electrics in a 4x4' box I would use:
1. A short, heavy gauge, extension cord to bring the power inside the box.
2. A thermostat;
3. An 18x28" Kane heat mat.
4. A 12x21 radiant heat panel from Reptile Basics.

Post one of this thread shows a pic of all this and how I install it.


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## dozers butler

Tom again much thanks to you my friend. I hope you are getting ready for a very merry christmas


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## Tom

dozers butler said:


> Tom again much thanks to you my friend. I hope you are getting ready for a very merry christmas



You are very welcome and thanks for the Christmas wishes too. Right back at ya!

We'd all love to see pics when you are done. Everyone figures out little details differently and we all want to learn.


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## dozers butler

Tom said:


> You are very welcome and thanks for the Christmas wishes too. Right back at ya!
> 
> We'd all love to see pics when you are done. Everyone figures out little details differently and we all want to learn.


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## dozers butler

Here's a pic of dozer hanging in the sun while I work today. I used it for my avitar. I will show pics when I'm done for sure.


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## Markw84

Just my two cents worth...

Although I joined this forum a few years ago and have loved and used countless ideas - especially in Tom and Dean's threads, I have only now decided to post a few things. I have hatched out a few hundred tortoises and over a thousand turtles in the past 30 years. How great would it to have been to have a resource like this back when I started!!

I have been building tortoise houses for over 30 years now, and would personally recommend being sure to use exterior grade or even marine grade plywood as it will last much longer outside and also cuts better with most voids filled and takes paint better.

I have now transitioned to a block house, stuccoed, and roofed, for my permanent tortoise house. When I moved a year an a half ago I built an elaborate tortoise and aquatic turtle "resort". The tortoise house is the picture for my profile. My 10,000 gal turtle pond enclosure also features a sunken patio with 5 6 foot wide windows looking into the pond... but perhaps that should be a separate post showing off my "Resort".


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## dozers butler

Tom hate to bother you again but ive been trying to identify your thermostat so i can get one. ive been monitoring dozers temps and turnign things on and off manually til i can find the right thermostat. im running into walls on this simple item . if you could give me a link or point me in the right direction id much appreciate it . thanks again. also what do you set for minimum and max temps, and humidity. thanks again. Anthony.


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## Tom

dozers butler said:


> Tom hate to bother you again but ive been trying to identify your thermostat so i can get one. ive been monitoring dozers temps and turnign things on and off manually til i can find the right thermostat. im running into walls on this simple item . if you could give me a link or point me in the right direction id much appreciate it . thanks again. also what do you set for minimum and max temps, and humidity. thanks again. Anthony.



I can't do a link from here but I have been using the Zila 1000 W thermostat from LLL reptiles. Also, at the recommendation of many forum members here, I have recently tried the Hydro farm jumpstart thermo stat. So far that one has been working perfectly for me too. I am also using some more expensive type thermostats from reptile basics.com, but so far I see no difference in performance or longevity. 

A quick Internet search should show you multiple places to buy either of the first two thermostats I mentioned.


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## Lorielei2001

Wow that is fantastic!


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## AZtortMom

Excellent! Thank you Tom! This is my next project


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## AZtortMom

*Raises hand* How big did you make the door for your Sully?


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## Yvonne G

***Yvonne hides behind her hand so no one notices she's going off topic*** I made my Aldabran shed door 3' wide and there's not too much room on either side of the tortoise when he goes through.


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## AZtortMom

What are your recommendations for the AZ heat?


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## Tom

AZtortMom said:


> *Raises hand* How big did you make the door for your Sully?



I make the doors 16" tall and 26" wide, so I don't have to make them twice. This should accommodate even very large older males. If you have one of those rare 250 pound 20 year old Sudan males, well, you better make it bigger. The vast majority of pet sulcatas will easily fit through 16x26".


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## Tom

AZtortMom said:


> What are your recommendations for the AZ heat?



Unless you want to run misters and sprinklers all day with doubled up shade cloth over the entire yard all summer long, then _underground_ is the *ONLY* way to go. Here are some examples of how I have done it, but there are many ways to skin this cat.

http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/daisys-new-enclosure.28662/
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/semi-underground-russian-box.98590/#post-922226
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/sulcata-burrows.50846/

Phoenix heat can be deadly to a tortoise that is forced to remain above ground. Even in the shade, if its 110+, then can die. They cannot cool down when its that hot. Then need to be able to get somewhere cooler. Underground is cooler. As you will see in that last thread, I let mine live underground in summer, and then I block them out of their burrow in fall and make them sleep in the heated night boxes for winter.


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## alex_ornelas

Have you ever had a problem with a tortoise burning themselves on the mat? what are the pros to putting the mat on the floor rather than the side of the box?


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## Cheryl Hills

Tom said:


> I did it again.
> And I'm going to keep doing it too!
> 
> Here is the latest night box. Its similar to the others, but I wanted to show more of the electrics involved and how I use them. I made this one for my two returning Gpp females. I gave these two girls to a friend in 2010 and he raised them. They both turned out to be female, while most of mine are male. He offered to give them back to me in the hopes of producing some babies in the future. They will live alone for a couple of months for quarantine and fecal exam purposes, but then they will join the other girls.
> 
> Here we go...
> 
> Here is the almost finished box showing the yet uncovered insulation inside the walls.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is the assortment of equipment going into this box:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The heat mat and radiant heat panel have been mounted here, as has the shoe box that will hold all the excess wires.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here you can see all the cords and the thermostat all hooked up and stuffed into the shoe box. You can also see my thermostat probe hanging on the wall on the "cool" side. Notice the "drip loops" on the cord coming in to the box and inside the box. More on that later.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Close up of the shoe box:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> See how nice it looks with the cords all contained?  Notice that drip loop again...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A wider view of the whole thing. In this one you can see my GFI circuit that I'm plugged into:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is that "drip loop" that I keep talking about. I learned this back in my early aquarium days. You see, water runs downhill. Amazing right?! In the event of an earthquake or other aquarium splashes, the idea is that if you have a "loop" so that your cords always run downhill first and then uphill into your outlets, water will not be guided into your outlet. Instead it will come to the bottom of the loop and drip down to the ground harmlessly. I did one outside this new tortoise box and inside, just to be safe.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here it is open for business.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In my excitement I forgot to get pics of the new inhabitants. I'll get some pics and post those later.


Would something like this be useful for Russian torts? I know they like to dig but could it work?


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## Tom

alex_ornelas said:


> Have you ever had a problem with a tortoise burning themselves on the mat? what are the pros to putting the mat on the floor rather than the side of the box?



There are some people who put them on the sides, but that is not an effective way to use them. Heat rises, and Craig Kane himself told me that he wouldn't recommend using them that way. I want the tortoise to be on the warm spot and let the heat rise through its body. I don't want the tortoise on the cold floor and getting some heat on one side.

Kane heat mats have a built in safety thermostat embedded in the pad. If ever the main thermostat should fail, this fail-safe will shut the pad off and prevent over heating.

I've been using Kane mats since 2001 and I've never had any problems at all with them. No burns and no malfunctions of any kind. Right now I have 4 of them in use, but I've had as many as 8 going at once.


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## Tom

Cheryl Hills said:


> Would something like this be useful for Russian torts? I know they like to dig but could it work?



Absolutely. Russians don't need it to be kept all that warm at night, but this would extend the time they could stay out in Fall, and allow you to get them out earlier in Spring. The thermostat could be set at 60-65, so they still get a night time drop, but its not too warm. Night temps here in fall and spring are usually in the 40s and sometimes 30s, even though the days are fairly warm and sunny. Keeping the box at 60-65 lets me leave them outside, when I would otherwise have to bring them in every night.

Here is how I did it:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/heating-an-outdoor-russian-night-box.116180/#post-1077261

An above ground box could work too. I went underground because it gets really hot here in summer (Every day is near or above 100 degrees…) and being underground allows them to stay nice and cool. This would not be as much of a problem in OH in the shade.


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## Redstrike

How hot do those radiant heat panels get? I see them advertising that they won't burn the reptile even with direct contact which makes me curious regarding their efficacy for heating air space?

Have you seen these (link below)? I think these are a great technology for heating tortoise enclosures.

http://www.spyderrobotics.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=45


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## JLM

Another great thread! How big for a red foot? I don't want to have it be so big that I heat space needlessly. Also how big of a door?


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## Tom

Redstrike said:


> How hot do those radiant heat panels get? I see them advertising that they won't burn the reptile even with direct contact which makes me curious regarding their efficacy for heating air space?
> 
> Have you seen these (link below)? I think these are a great technology for heating tortoise enclosures.
> 
> http://www.spyderrobotics.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=45



They get hot enough to keep my 4x4' boxes at 86 F on a 30 F night, in combination with the Kane mats.


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## Tom

JLM said:


> Another great thread! How big for a red foot? I don't want to have it be so big that I heat space needlessly. Also how big of a door?



I like them to have enough room to be inside the box, but off of the heat mat. The actual inside dimensions of my 4x4' boxes is 39x39". The heat mat is 18" wide. I suppose you could make the box 30x30 inside for an adult RF.

I would go 2" taller and 2" wider than a large RF for your door. I make the doors 16x26" for a sulcata and that would fit a 100 pounder. I think 10x12" would fit any RF.


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## Oxalis

Tom said:


> I did it again.
> And I'm going to keep doing it too!
> 
> Here is the latest night box. Its similar to the others, but I wanted to show more of the electrics involved and how I use them. I made this one for my two returning Gpp females. I gave these two girls to a friend in 2010 and he raised them. They both turned out to be female, while most of mine are male. He offered to give them back to me in the hopes of producing some babies in the future. They will live alone for a couple of months for quarantine and fecal exam purposes, but then they will join the other girls.
> 
> Here we go...
> 
> Here is the almost finished box showing the yet uncovered insulation inside the walls.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is the assortment of equipment going into this box:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The heat mat and radiant heat panel have been mounted here, as has the shoe box that will hold all the excess wires.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here you can see all the cords and the thermostat all hooked up and stuffed into the shoe box. You can also see my thermostat probe hanging on the wall on the "cool" side. Notice the "drip loops" on the cord coming in to the box and inside the box. More on that later.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Close up of the shoe box:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> See how nice it looks with the cords all contained?  Notice that drip loop again...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A wider view of the whole thing. In this one you can see my GFI circuit that I'm plugged into:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is that "drip loop" that I keep talking about. I learned this back in my early aquarium days. You see, water runs downhill. Amazing right?! In the event of an earthquake or other aquarium splashes, the idea is that if you have a "loop" so that your cords always run downhill first and then uphill into your outlets, water will not be guided into your outlet. Instead it will come to the bottom of the loop and drip down to the ground harmlessly. I did one outside this new tortoise box and inside, just to be safe.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here it is open for business.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In my excitement I forgot to get pics of the new inhabitants. I'll get some pics and post those later.


Drool... Lucky torts! They are definitely spoiled and that's the way I like it.  Another home run, @Tom!!


----------



## klawran1

Tom said:


> Absolutely. Russians don't need it to be kept all that warm at night, but this would extend the time they could stay out in Fall, and allow you to get them out earlier in Spring. The thermostat could be set at 60-65, so they still get a night time drop, but its not too warm. Night temps here in fall and spring are usually in the 40s and sometimes 30s, even though the days are fairly warm and sunny. Keeping the box at 60-65 lets me leave them outside, when I would otherwise have to bring them in every night.
> 
> Here is how I did it:
> http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/heating-an-outdoor-russian-night-box.116180/#post-1077261
> 
> An above ground box could work too. I went underground because it gets really hot here in summer (Every day is near or above 100 degrees…) and being underground allows them to stay nice and cool. This would not be as much of a problem in OH in the shade.




I love your other thread on the underground box you built for your Russians for the summer heat. Will this heated box work to keep them cool in the summer as well? (Obviously without the heater turned on) Or should I go ahead and invest in building one box for summer and a heated box for winter? I have one Russian and I live in North Georgia. I want him and my Leopard outside as long as I can get away with before the ice comes. Thanks in advance!


----------



## klawran1

Uh... Or looking back, this is the same box, only with heat added, correct?


----------



## Tom

klawran1 said:


> I love your other thread on the underground box you built for your Russians for the summer heat. Will this heated box work to keep them cool in the summer as well? (Obviously without the heater turned on) Or should I go ahead and invest in building one box for summer and a heated box for winter? I have one Russian and I live in North Georgia. I want him and my Leopard outside as long as I can get away with before the ice comes. Thanks in advance!



The net result of using all that insulation and sealling the boxes is that it resists temperature change. If you have a cool evening and the interior of the box cool in the summertime, it will tend to stay cooler longer than the outside. However, by the end of the day the inside of my boxes is just as hot as the outside temperature in most cases. 

Unless your daily high temperature is at or above 100°F most of the summer days, I would not worry too much about keeping them cool. If you live in the desert like I do, or in Phoenix Arizona, where a summer day under 100°F is a rare thing, then you need to start thinking about going underground.

What are the daily summer highs in your area?


----------



## klawran1

I think the hottest it got this summer was 99, feels like 105. I just moved to the area last year from Tallahassee, FL, but my torts were inside there since I was renting and had no safe outdoor area. I'd like to say it stays no more than the low to mid 90s in an average summer, though there is the occasional scorching day.


----------



## klawran1

Oh and one other question. For the larger Sulcata box with the heat mat on the floor, is pee an issue? My leopard has a large bladder, it seems. I didn't want her to short anything out. Should I lay something down in there to help with cleaning?


----------



## Courtney & Brandon Nomura

Tom said:


> If your climate is humid, you probably won't need, and shouldn't use, the water tubs in the box. Other than that, I'd do it the same.
> 
> This box is 4x4x2'.
> 
> That is an 80 watt Radiant Heat Panel. It is the 12x21" one. And the Kane mat is 18x28" and also around 80 watts.


Is there a benefit in purchasing the pad with the integrated thermostat ?


----------



## Tom

klawran1 said:


> Oh and one other question. For the larger Sulcata box with the heat mat on the floor, is pee an issue? My leopard has a large bladder, it seems. I didn't want her to short anything out. Should I lay something down in there to help with cleaning?



The Kane heat mats are actually "farrowing pads". Its for baby piglets to lay on and keep warm, but the large momma pig will walk all over it too. Imagine the mess in a pig sty. The Kane mats handle poo, pee, being hosed, being dirty and everything else a tortoise has to offer with no problem. The only thing you should be careful to prevent is letting flammable materials like hay or straw get on top of the mat.


----------



## Tom

Courtney & Brandon Nomura said:


> Is there a benefit in purchasing the pad with the integrated thermostat ?



Yes. Multiple safetys. Any electrical device can fail. Having multiple safety devices built in reduces the chances of problems.


----------



## klawran1

Tom said:


> The Kane heat mats are actually "farrowing pads". Its for baby piglets to lay on and keep warm, but the large momma pig will walk all over it too. Imagine the mess in a pig sty. The Kane mats handle poo, pee, being hosed, being dirty and everything else a tortoise has to offer with no problem. The only thing you should be careful to prevent is letting flammable materials like hay or straw get on top of the mat.



Okay, great. I wasn't planning to put in any substrate just in case. I appreciate the warning.


----------



## Tom

klawran1 said:


> Okay, great. I wasn't planning to put in any substrate just in case. I appreciate the warning.



I just use a layer of dirt on the bottom of my boxes. Works great. It absorbs all the messes and I just scrape out the mud and replace it with dry dirt as needed. Their poops just sit on the surface and I scrape them up with a doggy doo picker-upper. The dirt layer makes this very easy. The dirt will not interfere with the Kane mats, but I just keep the surface of the heat mat wiped free of dirt. It also won't hurt anything if they poop on the mat and you don't see it right away. It can sit there for days and it won't be a problem.


----------



## melissah

Tom said:


> I did it again.
> And I'm going to keep doing it too!
> 
> Here is the latest night box. Its similar to the others, but I wanted to show more of the electrics involved and how I use them. I made this one for my two returning Gpp females. I gave these two girls to a friend in 2010 and he raised them. They both turned out to be female, while most of mine are male. He offered to give them back to me in the hopes of producing some babies in the future. They will live alone for a couple of months for quarantine and fecal exam purposes, but then they will join the other girls.
> 
> Here we go...
> 
> Here is the almost finished box showing the yet uncovered insulation inside the walls.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is the assortment of equipment going into this box:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The heat mat and radiant heat panel have been mounted here, as has the shoe box that will hold all the excess wires.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here you can see all the cords and the thermostat all hooked up and stuffed into the shoe box. You can also see my thermostat probe hanging on the wall on the "cool" side. Notice the "drip loops" on the cord coming in to the box and inside the box. More on that later.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Close up of the shoe box:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> See how nice it looks with the cords all contained?  Notice that drip loop again...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A wider view of the whole thing. In this one you can see my GFI circuit that I'm plugged into:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is that "drip loop" that I keep talking about. I learned this back in my early aquarium days. You see, water runs downhill. Amazing right?! In the event of an earthquake or other aquarium splashes, the idea is that if you have a "loop" so that your cords always run downhill first and then uphill into your outlets, water will not be guided into your outlet. Instead it will come to the bottom of the loop and drip down to the ground harmlessly. I did one outside this new tortoise box and inside, just to be safe.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here it is open for business.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In my excitement I forgot to get pics of the new inhabitants. I'll get some pics and post those later.


WOW Tom that is awesome!! I absolutely love the area and set up!! Very lucky tortoises indeed


----------



## Big Charlie

@Tom and anyone else who can answer. I posted this question on another thread and didn't get an answer so here it is again:


Big Charlie said:


> I'm still really confused by all the choices. I have a radiant heat panel in the roof and this thermostat: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01486LZ50/?tag=exoticpetnetw-20
> You can plug two things into it and they would both go on and off depending on the temperature set. I can't figure out which Kane (or other brand) heat mat to get for the floor: one with a rheostat, one with a thermostat, or just a plain one, and whether it is smart to have them both plugged into the same controller. I think the Kane mats at Tortoise supply don't have either a rheostat or thermostat. If I get one of those, do I need to buy a separate rheostat beyond the controller I already have? Do I want to be able to set the temperature on the Kane mat to a lower or different temperature than my RHP?


----------



## Tom

It doesn't matter which of the Kane mats you get. Whatever you get, you will crank it all the way up, and your thermostat will turn it on or off, depending on the temp.

When temp drops below 80, the thermostat will turn on both the RHP and the Kane mat. If the temp rises above 80 in the box, the thermostat will turn both items off. If your torte gets too warm because the RHP and heat mat are on all night on a cold night, he can move off of the mat.


----------



## Big Charlie

Tom said:


> It doesn't matter which of the Kane mats you get. Whatever you get, you will crank it all the way up, and your thermostat will turn it on or off, depending on the temp.
> 
> When temp drops below 80, the thermostat will turn on both the RHP and the Kane mat. If the temp rises above 80 in the box, the thermostat will turn both items off. If your torte gets too warm because the RHP and heat mat are on all night on a cold night, he can move off of the mat.


Thank you!


----------



## bouaboua

Hi Tom: @Tom 

At what temperature, you set up the red heat mat in this enclosure? Thanks. I have a heat gun, so I can make sure my setting after I learn from you.


----------



## Tom

I don't set the temperature of the heat mat. I set the thermostat to turn the heater on or off according to the air temp on the cool side of the box. In summer I set the thermostat to around 70-75. In winter 80-86. I'm certain the the surface of the heat mat is much warmer than that. Its probably close to 100, which gives the tortoise the ability to warm up. They can also get off of the mat, but still be in the warmer air, anytime they want.


----------



## Angie Robinson

Tom said:


> I did it again.
> And I'm going to keep doing it too!
> 
> Here is the latest night box. Its similar to the others, but I wanted to show more of the electrics involved and how I use them. I made this one for my two returning Gpp females. I gave these two girls to a friend in 2010 and he raised them. They both turned out to be female, while most of mine are male. He offered to give them back to me in the hopes of producing some babies in the future. They will live alone for a couple of months for quarantine and fecal exam purposes, but then they will join the other girls.
> 
> Here we go...
> 
> Here is the almost finished box showing the yet uncovered insulation inside the walls.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is the assortment of equipment going into this box:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The heat mat and radiant heat panel have been mounted here, as has the shoe box that will hold all the excess wires.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here you can see all the cords and the thermostat all hooked up and stuffed into the shoe box. You can also see my thermostat probe hanging on the wall on the "cool" side. Notice the "drip loops" on the cord coming in to the box and inside the box. More on that later.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Close up of the shoe box:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> See how nice it looks with the cords all contained?  Notice that drip loop again...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A wider view of the whole thing. In this one you can see my GFI circuit that I'm plugged into:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is that "drip loop" that I keep talking about. I learned this back in my early aquarium days. You see, water runs downhill. Amazing right?! In the event of an earthquake or other aquarium splashes, the idea is that if you have a "loop" so that your cords always run downhill first and then uphill into your outlets, water will not be guided into your outlet. Instead it will come to the bottom of the loop and drip down to the ground harmlessly. I did one outside this new tortoise box and inside, just to be safe.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here it is open for business.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In my excitement I forgot to get pics of the new inhabitants. I'll get some pics and post those later.


This is great!


----------



## AZtortMom

Hi Tom!
Can you talk a little more about how you have RHP and you heat pad hooked up to the thermostat? I'm about to do this feat with mine. 
Thanks!


----------



## Tom

AZtortMom said:


> Hi Tom!
> Can you talk a little more about how you have RHP and you heat pad hooked up to the thermostat? I'm about to do this feat with mine.
> Thanks!


Most thermostats have three open plugs to use.

Just plug the thermostat into the wall, put the probe on the cool side where the tortoise can't reach it, set the temp where you want it, and plug your heater and RHP into the thermostat's open receptacles. Tidy up the wires a bit and let it run. Check temps for a few days before adding a tortoise. Adjust as needed.


----------



## Yvonne G

This is what the inside of mine (that Will built for me) looks like:




You can see the probe hanging alongside the wires on the lid. When the lid is closed, the probe hangs down about in the middle and almost to the floor, but is not bothered by the tortoises. Here's a look at the controller:





He's got a white extension cord with 4 outlets on the end and he plugged the three RHPs into the white cord. Then the white cord goes up to the controller. The black cord coming out of the controller goes to the electrical outlet. In that controller picture you can see the probe hanging. He left it just long enough to miss touching the floor (or leaves).

This has worked out great for the application. The night box is inside a greenhouse. If there's any sun at all, the greenhouse quickly warms up to tortoise type temperature. On cold gray days when there is no sun, Will mounted a fluorescent tube light on the other side of the plastic strips, in the "vestibule", so to speak, and on those days I feed the tortoises there in the vestibule and don't open their door.


----------



## AZtortMom

Tom said:


> Most thermostats have three open plugs to use.
> 
> Just plug the thermostat into the wall, put the probe on the cool side where the tortoise can't reach it, set the temp where you want it, and plug your heater and RHP into the thermostat's open receptacles. Tidy up the wires a bit and let it run. Check temps for a few days before adding a tortoise. Adjust as needed.


 
Thanks Tom. 
Any recommendations on a good thermostat?


----------



## AZtortMom

Yvonne G said:


> This is what the inside of mine (that Will built for me) looks like:
> 
> View attachment 201052
> 
> 
> You can see the probe hanging alongside the wires on the lid. When the lid is closed, the probe hangs down about in the middle and almost to the floor, but is not bothered by the tortoises. Here's a look at the controller:
> 
> View attachment 201053
> View attachment 201054
> 
> 
> He's got a white extension cord with 4 outlets on the end and he plugged the three RHPs into the white cord. Then the white cord goes up to the controller. The black cord coming out of the controller goes to the electrical outlet. In that controller picture you can see the probe hanging. He left it just long enough to miss touching the floor (or leaves).
> 
> This has worked out great for the application. The night box is inside a greenhouse. If there's any sun at all, the greenhouse quickly warms up to tortoise type temperature. On cold gray days when there is no sun, Will mounted a fluorescent tube light on the other side of the plastic strips, in the "vestibule", so to speak, and on those days I feed the tortoises there in the vestibule and don't open their door.


Thank you for the pictures 
That helps a lot!
I will post pics when mine is done.


----------



## Tom

AZtortMom said:


> Thanks Tom.
> Any recommendations on a good thermostat?


I usually use these and they work well for me in all sorts of applications:
https://www.lllreptile.com/products/13883-zilla-1000-watt-temperature-controller
https://www.hydrofarm.com/p/MTPRTC

More expensive options exist, and those all work for me too. Look up Ranco, Helix Controls, or Spider Robotics for those. I can't say these are "better" since the $30 ones work perfectly for me too, but they are more precise. I don't really need precision for my night boxes...


----------



## AZtortMom

Tom said:


> I usually use these and they work well for me in all sorts of applications:
> https://www.lllreptile.com/products/13883-zilla-1000-watt-temperature-controller
> https://www.hydrofarm.com/p/MTPRTC
> 
> More expensive options exist, and those all work for me too. Look up Ranco, Helix Controls, or Spider Robotics for those. I can't say these are "better" since the $30 ones work perfectly for me too, but they are more precise. I don't really need precision for my night boxes...


Thank you Tom. 
I'm hoping to have most of the tort night houses wrapped up short of the painting.


----------



## Daisy

Thank you Tom & Yvonne for the great night box ideas! Daisy is my 5 y.o. Sulcata and we have set up a night box based on Tom's set up shown in this post; with a linoleum floor. She LOVES it! I have a clean-up question for you though and hope you have some magic words of wisdom! At 5 years she is no longer making cute little baby tortoise poo/urine and is now producing more voluminous products to say the least. I don't mind the clean up but she has a tendency to urinate on the Kane mat. We thought the sheet of linoleum would be easier to clean up. However the volume of urine is enough that it gets to the bases of the walls (where they meet the floor). Do you have any suggestions for keeping the urine better contained so that it does not do this? Is there a "tray" of sorts that would be safe to sit the Kane mat in? 

Leslie


----------



## Daisy

Here are some pics of our beautiful girl!!






Leslie


----------



## Bass.Isles

Mike's


Tom said:


> I did it again.
> And I'm going to keep doing it too!
> 
> Here is the latest night box. Its similar to the others, but I wanted to show more of the electrics involved and how I use them. I made this one for my two returning Gpp females. I gave these two girls to a friend in 2010 and he raised them. They both turned out to be female, while most of mine are male. He offered to give them back to me in the hopes of producing some babies in the future. They will live alone for a couple of months for quarantine and fecal exam purposes, but then they will join the other girls.
> 
> Here we go...
> 
> Here is the almost finished box showing the yet uncovered insulation inside the walls.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is the assortment of equipment going into this box:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The heat mat and radiant heat panel have been mounted here, as has the shoe box that will hold all the excess wires.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here you can see all the cords and the thermostat all hooked up and stuffed into the shoe box. You can also see my thermostat probe hanging on the wall on the "cool" side. Notice the "drip loops" on the cord coming in to the box and inside the box. More on that later.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Close up of the shoe box:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> See how nice it looks with the cords all contained?  Notice that drip loop again...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A wider view of the whole thing. In this one you can see my GFI circuit that I'm plugged into:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is that "drip loop" that I keep talking about. I learned this back in my early aquarium days. You see, water runs downhill. Amazing right?! In the event of an earthquake or other aquarium splashes, the idea is that if you have a "loop" so that your cords always run downhill first and then uphill into your outlets, water will not be guided into your outlet. Instead it will come to the bottom of the loop and drip down to the ground harmlessly. I did one outside this new tortoise box and inside, just to be safe.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here it is open for business.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In my excitement I forgot to get pics of the new inhabitants. I'll get some pics and post those later.



this is awesome! can you tell me the ballpark of about how much the whole thing cost to build? including the lumber and electrical stuff?


----------



## Tom

Bass.Isles said:


> Mike's
> 
> this is awesome! can you tell me the ballpark of about how much the whole thing cost to build? including the lumber and electrical stuff?



The and all the materials are about $150-200. The electrical stuff is about $300, but its the best way to go.


----------



## Maggie Cummings

Daisy said:


> Thank you Tom & Yvonne for the great night box ideas! Daisy is my 5 y.o. Sulcata and we have set up a night box based on Tom's set up shown in this post; with a linoleum floor. She LOVES it! I have a clean-up question for you though and hope you have some magic words of wisdom! At 5 years she is no longer making cute little baby tortoise poo/urine and is now producing more voluminous products to say the least. I don't mind the clean up but she has a tendency to urinate on the Kane mat. We thought the sheet of linoleum would be easier to clean up. However the volume of urine is enough that it gets to the bases of the walls (where they meet the floor). Do you have any suggestions for keeping the urine better contained so that it does not do this? Is there a "tray" of sorts that would be safe to sit the Kane mat in?
> 
> Leslie



The mat can handle the urine. Bob was 125 pounds and he could really put out the urine, and that same mat is still working and has been handed over to another pee-er. I used a string mop and vinegar, easy enough to clean, and put all that Sulcata poop in a dirt hole, turn it once in a while and you'll have worms for the boxies, and great fertilizer for the plants.


----------



## Dave S.

Hey Tom. Have you researched or tried Solar panels on the roofs of your Night Boxes? I'm about to build one and don't want the mess of cords running throughout my yard and was wondering if anyone has tried using solar panels as energy sources for heat lamps/panels.
Saw something like this on eBay:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Solar-Light...818649?hash=item4d4f4b5459:g:ynEAAOSwo4pYNuOr

Thanks for your input.
-Dave


----------



## JoesMum

Dave S. said:


> Hey Tom. Have you researched or tried Solar panels on the roofs of your Night Boxes? I'm about to build one and don't want the mess of cords running throughout my yard and was wondering if anyone has tried using solar panels as energy sources for heat lamps/panels.
> Saw something like this on eBay:
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Solar-Light...818649?hash=item4d4f4b5459:g:ynEAAOSwo4pYNuOr
> 
> Thanks for your input.
> -Dave


You would need lamps/panels that can run off batteries. And you would probably need quite large batteries for high wattage equipment run all night and potentially all day as well in winter. 

The panels only generate when the sun is out; not at night and not in bad weather


----------



## Daisy

maggie3fan said:


> The mat can handle the urine. Bob was 125 pounds and he could really put out the urine, and that same mat is still working and has been handed over to another pee-er. I used a string mop and vinegar, easy enough to clean, and put all that Sulcata poop in a dirt hole, turn it once in a while and you'll have worms for the boxies, and great fertilizer for the plants.


----------



## Daisy

I have seen the pics and read a lot of the stories about your sweet Bob! Thanks for the advice! I started putting a bit of the coconut coir around the bases to act as an absorbent (kind of like kitty litter) and this seems to help wick up some of the moisture and keep it from running off too much. I know that's not the most cost effective way to go but I thought that dirt would just turn into mud! This is reminiscent of my younger days when I had horses!!! Hahahahaha!


----------



## Dave S.

Hey Tom. A friend and I are just finishing up building this 3 ft x2 ft house for my Desert Tortoise that I will be adopting soon. Bought a Zoo-Med Habitat Heater pad for the interior which I will probably mount to the wall or ceiling.
Going to lay linoleum floor tiles in the inside(along with insulation) and was wondering if I need to lay a substrate(hay/???) on the floor of this house for the tortoise's comfort?
Suggestions? I live on the CA West coast and it really doesn't get as cold at night as other areas of the US.
Thanks.
-Dave


----------



## Tom

Looks great Dave. A heated box is a great idea if you live anywhere near the coast.

The ZooMed heat mats won't be effective on the ceiling or the wall. They don't throw heat that far. Further, I don't care for the ZooMed ones because they are copies of other people's better work, and they don't have the built in redundant safeties that the Kane mats have. If you can still return it, I would.

Have you already got a thermostat to run whatever heat you use?

I don't think you "need" substrate, but if there is no heat mat on the floor, some bermuda grass hay or orchard grass hay might be nice. No reason you couldn't use dirt, or some fine grade orchid bark either.

Are there plans for a door and door flaps too?


----------



## Dave S.

Hi Tom. Yes we're installing the door today. It's a draw-bridge and I will attach the clear mat curtain on the interior of the door as well.
I plugged in the heat mat last night and it wasn't too hot(good or bad) and I might consider just leaving it on the floor, hence the floor substrate question.
I've been reading on the forum about people using Timothy Hay as floor substrate. I was just curious because I know desert torts are burrowers and would assume they need to have "substrate" surrounding them for warmth and comfort especially during hibernation.

We this house we built is extremely airtight(other than door) and am a bit concerned about how hot it will get in the daytime. I'm planning on staining a Dark Walnut(for esthetic purposes-I'm a graphic designer) and the roof is asphalt black roofing sheets(7) that HomeDepot was kind enough to give to me for FREE!!! Plus, I haven't installed the interior insulation sheets yet! My builder friend was concerned so that he suggested drilling holes under roof for extra ventilation. Suggestions?

What heating pad(s) and thermostat system do you recommend? 
I'm not an electrician and have no outdoor outlets in the backyard so I have to figure out a way to route cords to my garage outlets. Maybe place on a timer and thermostat controller to turn on at night and regulate temp of pad.

Thanks again for all your help Tom!

-Dave


----------



## Tom

Dave S. said:


> Hi Tom. Yes we're installing the door today. It's a draw-bridge and I will attach the clear mat curtain on the interior of the door as well.
> I plugged in the heat mat last night and it wasn't too hot(good or bad) and I might consider just leaving it on the floor, hence the floor substrate question.
> I've been reading on the forum about people using Timothy Hay as floor substrate. I was just curious because I know desert torts are burrowers and would assume they need to have "substrate" surrounding them for warmth and comfort especially during hibernation.
> 
> We this house we built is extremely airtight(other than door) and am a bit concerned about how hot it will get in the daytime. I'm planning on staining a Dark Walnut(for esthetic purposes-I'm a graphic designer) and the roof is asphalt black roofing sheets(7) that HomeDepot was kind enough to give to me for FREE!!! Plus, I haven't installed the interior insulation sheets yet! My builder friend was concerned so that he suggested drilling holes under roof for extra ventilation. Suggestions?
> 
> What heating pad(s) and thermostat system do you recommend?
> I'm not an electrician and have no outdoor outlets in the backyard so I have to figure out a way to route cords to my garage outlets. Maybe place on a timer and thermostat controller to turn on at night and regulate temp of pad.
> 
> Thanks again for all your help Tom!
> 
> -Dave



-If you are going to use the heat mat on the floor, then I would suggest no hay at all. A little dirt in the areas where the mat doesn't go will be good, but not _on_ the mat.
-I would not use timothy hay for tortoises. It is too stemmy for my liking. Orchard grass hay and bermuda hay are better choices, if you are going to use hay.
-I just want to be clear: I don't trust those ZooMed mats and I would not use one. The Kane mats are safer and have built in redundant safeties to prevent over heating.
-The heat mat alone won't be enough, so Id suggest mounting a radiant heat panel above it. The panel should be mounted about 10-12" over the tortoise 's carapace when resting.
-The door opening will give you all the ventilation you need. No holes in the roof. That will only let all your heat out. No hole in the roof of a burrow in the wild, right? Just a door hole barely big enough for the tortoise to squeeze through.
-This box will not work for hibernation, so you can can figure out hibernation substrate when that time comes.
-Don't worry about the box over heating. All that insulation and sealant will resist over heating. It is also not likely to over heat near the coast anyway. My boxes are in full sun here in the desert with 105 summer temps and mine don't over heat. Also, if it gets too warm, the tortoise can exit the box and go find some shade.

You'll have to decide how and what this box is really for to determine how to use it best and set the thermostat. Is it an area to sleep and be protected with out getting too cold at night? Is it and area to go warm up during cooler beach days? Do you want to keep it hotter in the day time and allow for a night drop in temp for your temperate species? Are you using it so the tortoise can get outside earlier in spring and stay out later in the fall? Seems to me, that I would be making adjustments for different times of year and depending on what I was trying to accomplish. A heated box for a DT is sort of a different proposition than it is for a tropical species, due to their different temperature requirements.

I've had good results with both of these inexpensive thermostats:
https://www.lllreptile.com/products/13883-zilla-1000-watt-temperature-controller
https://www.hydrofarm.com/p/MTPRTC


----------



## Fredkas

@Tom 
1. the door opening of this night box will be closed when night time right? Still.. no need for any hole? It will be tight and i think no air wil come in and out when that door is closed. I think i will close it for 12hr a day.
2. This box is 4x4x2, i will use it for my sulcata and i find this size is very easy to make when we cut the plywood (efficient too!). However, will it be enough size for an aldabra? I have one, and i really like this box's size (easy to cut). Need your opinion. I want a forever box for the aldabra too.


----------



## Tom

Fredkas said:


> @Tom
> 1. the door opening of this night box will be closed when night time right? Still.. no need for any hole? It will be tight and i think no air wil come in and out when that door is closed. I think i will close it for 12hr a day.
> 2. This box is 4x4x2, i will use it for my sulcata and i find this size is very easy to make when we cut the plywood (efficient too!). However, will it be enough size for an aldabra? I have one, and i really like this box's size (easy to cut). Need your opinion. I want a forever box for the aldabra too.



1. No need for any ventilation holes. My doors are never airtight, and even if the box was hermetically sealed, there is plenty of air in there to last a slumbering reptile until morning. Ventilation will allow your hot air out and cold air in.
2. The answer depends on how big your aldabra gets. Internal dimension in the 4x4x2 boxes is actually about 39x39x21. This is enough room for a large sulcata, but it is not enough room for a large Aldabra. I'm building and aldabra box for a friend right now who lost everything in the recent fires here. It is 4x8x3feet tall. I'm making the door 30x20 inches to allow for more growth.


----------



## Fredkas

Tom said:


> 2. The answer depends on how big your aldabra gets. Internal dimension in the 4x4x2 boxes is actually about 39x39x21. This is enough room for a large sulcata, but it is not enough room for a large Aldabra. I'm building and aldabra box for a friend right now who lost everything in the recent fires here. It is 4x8x3feet tall. I'm making the door 30x20 inches to allow for more growth.


 @Tom , the wide of the door is 30 or 20 inches? Aldabra has a high dome. And they are quiet tall when walking.


----------



## Ranman

Tom said:


> There are some people who put them on the sides, but that is not an effective way to use them. Heat rises, and Craig Kane himself told me that he wouldn't recommend using them that way. I want the tortoise to be on the warm spot and let the heat rise through its body. I don't want the tortoise on the cold floor and getting some heat on one side.
> 
> Kane heat mats have a built in safety thermostat embedded in the pad. If ever the main thermostat should fail, this fail-safe will shut the pad off and prevent over heating.
> 
> I've been using Kane mats since 2001 and I've never had any problems at all with them. No burns and no malfunctions of any kind. Right now I have 4 of them in use, but I've had as many as 8 going at once.


Tom this is a great easy box to build thank you for sharing. I am building my first one just like it now. On the Kane mat mine came with the controller to set the temp and says the controller must be used if you are using indoors. Would you recommend i just cut the wire to remove the controller and put a plug on it so i can plug directly into the zilla thermostat.


----------



## Tom

Ranman said:


> Tom this is a great easy box to build thank you for sharing. I am building my first one just like it now. On the Kane mat mine came with the controller to set the temp and says the controller must be used if you are using indoors. Would you recommend i just cut the wire to remove the controller and put a plug on it so i can plug directly into the zilla thermostat.


No. Use the controller as is. Turn it most of the way up and use the Zilla thermostat to control it.


----------



## Jimb

Awesome job! Can you list where you purchased the Thermostat & Heat Panel, and maybe their cost? I hope to build something similar this Spring/Summer. Thanks for posting, it helps the rest of us with ideas and know-hows. Oh also, what't the white unit to the left of the shoebox?
Ok, maybe a parts list?? LOL!


----------



## izzzzzz6

Great work. I'm glad you replied with this info to the new member enquiring about weather conditions. I live in France but i have travelled all over California and am aware that SoCal is warmer than NorCal. Her tortoise was moved from SoCal so i thought it might need a bit more heat at the colder ends to the year. I was a bit worried that she might not have hibernated it in ideal conditions but i am hoping she will read up and learn a bit more about the responsibilities that she has inherited after agreeing to take on her new family member. The fact that she has posted here asking for help is already a good sign. 
I might have to construct some boxes like yours, currently i bring our tortoises inside to their table when it gets too cold. I built them an outdoor house from clay tiles wood and even has a partial glass roof on the front side but it's more of a weather shelter as it is not insulated. They have a larger shelter too which has one glass wall but it's really just a dry place they can go incase it gets very wet. 
Oh i almost forgot. You mentioned photos of the residents coming soon?


----------



## Tom

Jimb said:


> Awesome job! Can you list where you purchased the Thermostat & Heat Panel, and maybe their cost? I hope to build something similar this Spring/Summer. Thanks for posting, it helps the rest of us with ideas and know-hows. Oh also, what't the white unit to the left of the shoebox?
> Ok, maybe a parts list?? LOL!



Sorry Jimb, just saw this post now…

Thermostat:
https://www.lllreptile.com/products/13883-zilla-1000-watt-temperature-controller

RHP:
http://www.reptilebasics.com/rbi-radiant-heat-panels

You can get the Kane mats form Tyler at:
https://www.tortoisesupply.com


----------



## Jimb

Tom said:


> Sorry Jimb, just saw this post now…
> 
> Thermostat:
> https://www.lllreptile.com/products/13883-zilla-1000-watt-temperature-controller
> 
> RHP:
> http://www.reptilebasics.com/rbi-radiant-heat-panels
> 
> You can get the Kane mats form Tyler at:
> https://www.tortoisesupply.com



Awesome! Thanks!


----------



## Pearly

Tom said:


> I did it again.
> And I'm going to keep doing it too!
> 
> Here is the latest night box. Its similar to the others, but I wanted to show more of the electrics involved and how I use them. I made this one for my two returning Gpp females. I gave these two girls to a friend in 2010 and he raised them. They both turned out to be female, while most of mine are male. He offered to give them back to me in the hopes of producing some babies in the future. They will live alone for a couple of months for quarantine and fecal exam purposes, but then they will join the other girls.
> 
> Here we go...
> 
> Here is the almost finished box showing the yet uncovered insulation inside the walls.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is the assortment of equipment going into this box:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The heat mat and radiant heat panel have been mounted here, as has the shoe box that will hold all the excess wires.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here you can see all the cords and the thermostat all hooked up and stuffed into the shoe box. You can also see my thermostat probe hanging on the wall on the "cool" side. Notice the "drip loops" on the cord coming in to the box and inside the box. More on that later.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Close up of the shoe box:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> See how nice it looks with the cords all contained?  Notice that drip loop again...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A wider view of the whole thing. In this one you can see my GFI circuit that I'm plugged into:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is that "drip loop" that I keep talking about. I learned this back in my early aquarium days. You see, water runs downhill. Amazing right?! In the event of an earthquake or other aquarium splashes, the idea is that if you have a "loop" so that your cords always run downhill first and then uphill into your outlets, water will not be guided into your outlet. Instead it will come to the bottom of the loop and drip down to the ground harmlessly. I did one outside this new tortoise box and inside, just to be safe.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here it is open for business.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In my excitement I forgot to get pics of the new inhabitants. I'll get some pics and post those later.



Love this one, too! Can I use these pics as well for my tort house build?


----------



## Tom

Pearly said:


> Love this one, too! Can I use these pics as well for my tort house build?


Please do.


----------



## Pearly

Tom said:


> Please do.



Thank you


----------



## cjturtle

Tom said:


> I did it again.
> And I'm going to keep doing it too!
> 
> Here is the latest night box. Its similar to the others, but I wanted to show more of the electrics involved and how I use them. I made this one for my two returning Gpp females. I gave these two girls to a friend in 2010 and he raised them. They both turned out to be female, while most of mine are male. He offered to give them back to me in the hopes of producing some babies in the future. They will live alone for a couple of months for quarantine and fecal exam purposes, but then they will join the other girls.
> 
> Here we go...
> 
> Here is the almost finished box showing the yet uncovered insulation inside the walls.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is the assortment of equipment going into this box:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The heat mat and radiant heat panel have been mounted here, as has the shoe box that will hold all the excess wires.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here you can see all the cords and the thermostat all hooked up and stuffed into the shoe box. You can also see my thermostat probe hanging on the wall on the "cool" side. Notice the "drip loops" on the cord coming in to the box and inside the box. More on that later.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Close up of the shoe box:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> See how nice it looks with the cords all contained?  Notice that drip loop again...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A wider view of the whole thing. In this one you can see my GFI circuit that I'm plugged into:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is that "drip loop" that I keep talking about. I learned this back in my early aquarium days. You see, water runs downhill. Amazing right?! In the event of an earthquake or other aquarium splashes, the idea is that if you have a "loop" so that your cords always run downhill first and then uphill into your outlets, water will not be guided into your outlet. Instead it will come to the bottom of the loop and drip down to the ground harmlessly. I did one outside this new tortoise box and inside, just to be safe.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here it is open for business.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In my excitement I forgot to get pics of the new inhabitants. I'll get some pics and post those later.


This is one cool setup. Thx for sharing.


----------



## Tom

cjturtle said:


> This is one cool setup. Thx for sharing.


On the contrary, it is quite warm in there…


----------



## Romeo Serback

I know


Tom said:


> I did it again.
> And I'm going to keep doing it too!
> 
> Here is the latest night box. Its similar to the others, but I wanted to show more of the electrics involved and how I use them. I made this one for my two returning Gpp females. I gave these two girls to a friend in 2010 and he raised them. They both turned out to be female, while most of mine are male. He offered to give them back to me in the hopes of producing some babies in the future. They will live alone for a couple of months for quarantine and fecal exam purposes, but then they will join the other girls.
> 
> Here we go...
> 
> Here is the almost finished box showing the yet uncovered insulation inside the walls.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is the assortment of equipment going into this box:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The heat mat and radiant heat panel have been mounted here, as has the shoe box that will hold all the excess wires.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here you can see all the cords and the thermostat all hooked up and stuffed into the shoe box. You can also see my thermostat probe hanging on the wall on the "cool" side. Notice the "drip loops" on the cord coming in to the box and inside the box. More on that later.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Close up of the shoe box:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> See how nice it looks with the cords all contained?  Notice that drip loop again...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A wider view of the whole thing. In this one you can see my GFI circuit that I'm plugged into:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is that "drip loop" that I keep talking about. I learned this back in my early aquarium days. You see, water runs downhill. Amazing right?! In the event of an earthquake or other aquarium splashes, the idea is that if you have a "loop" so that your cords always run downhill first and then uphill into your outlets, water will not be guided into your outlet. Instead it will come to the bottom of the loop and drip down to the ground harmlessly. I did one outside this new tortoise box and inside, just to be safe.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here it is open for business.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In my excitement I forgot to get pics of the new inhabitants. I'll get some pics and post those later.


I know this is an old thread, but it's beautiful! For an adult leopard, what's the minimum height and width you should make your hide opening? I know not all leopards are the same size, but in knowing that, what do you suggest?


----------



## wellington

Romeo Serback said:


> I know
> 
> I know this is an old thread, but it's beautiful! For an adult leopard, what's the minimum height and width you should make your hide opening? I know not all leopards are the same size, but in knowing that, what do you suggest?


What kind of leopard do you have? The Babcocki are usually smaller, around 11-17 inches and then the PP around 20 plus.


----------



## Romeo Serback

wellington said:


> What kind of leopard do you have? The Babcocki are usually smaller, around 11-17 inches and then the PP around 20 plus.


Babcocki. What's the adult width and height? Or should I make the entrance for SA in case I get another and then build a smaller one for my current one?


----------



## wellington

Romeo Serback said:


> Babcocki. What's the adult width and height? Or should I make the entrance for SA in case I get another and then build a smaller one for my current one?


They don't do good in pairs so I wouldn't get another. I also wouldn't mix the SA with a Bab. I believe my Babs opening is 12 inches wide by 24 inches high. My leopards are 11 inches long and 7 years old. I don't know how wide they are. Probably around 6 to 8 inches wide.


----------



## Romeo Serback

Oh, I've read over 500 threads in the past 2 weeks alone and I know about not mixing pairs or breeds due to bullying, diseases, etc. I was implying that if you love one tortoise, you can't just get one. Lol And if I build a hide that's big enough for SA, then it should be good for my Babcocki. So you would say that a 24" high and 18" wide would be good? I think I'll do that. Thanks for the help.


----------



## wellington

Romeo Serback said:


> Oh, I've read over 500 threads in the past 2 weeks alone and I know about not mixing pairs or breeds due to bullying, diseases, etc. I was implying that if you love one tortoise, you can't just get one. Lol And if I build a hide that's big enough for SA, then it should be good for my Babcocki. So you would say that a 24" high and 18" wide would be good? I think I'll do that. Thanks for the help.


I see. If your thinking ahead for an SA I would do a 24x24.


----------



## Romeo Serback

Yes. That sounds good. Thanks again!


----------



## Tom

Romeo Serback said:


> Oh, I've read over 500 threads in the past 2 weeks alone and I know about not mixing pairs or breeds due to bullying, diseases, etc. I was implying that if you love one tortoise, you can't just get one. Lol And if I build a hide that's big enough for SA, then it should be good for my Babcocki. So you would say that a 24" high and 18" wide would be good? I think I'll do that. Thanks for the help.


I like to make my door as small as possible, but also allowing for adult sizes. This way, less heat is lost out the door. There is no reason to make a leopard door more than 16" or 18" tall. I do 16-18" tall for adult male sulcata, and 24-26 wide.


----------



## Romeo Serback

How about leopards? I know they aren't as wide as sullies.


----------



## CJW

We used these plans to build our night box. It is awesome! Thanks for posting this!


----------



## Tom

CJW said:


> We used these plans to build our night box. It is awesome! Thanks for posting this!


I wanna see pics! I get ideas and inspiration from other people's builds too. WIll you make a thread when you have time?


----------



## DawnH

Question!!

Is there a particular reason why you have not painted the inside of the night box? I’m asking because everyone thought I was crazy when I used exterior house paint and also painted the INSIDE of our chicken coop, but it find that makes cleanup much easier and it creates a barrier to keep the wood fresher and longer lasting in regards to feces/urine/water. I actually planned on doing that when I create Tuleo’s night box but I’m wondering if there’s a particular reason why I should NOT?

Thanks for any help you can give!

Dawn


----------



## Yvonne G

DawnH said:


> Question!!
> 
> Is there a particular reason why you have not painted the inside of the night box? I’m asking because everyone thought I was crazy when I used exterior house paint and also painted the INSIDE of our chicken coop, but it find that makes cleanup much easier and it creates a barrier to keep the wood fresher and longer lasting in regards to feces/urine/water. I actually planned on doing that when I create Tuleo’s night box but I’m wondering if there’s a particular reason why I should NOT?
> 
> Thanks for any help you can give!
> 
> Dawn


About painting the inside: Will told me that black widow spiders don't like light colors and prefer dark places, so if you paint the insides of your boxes and sheds white it cuts down on the widow population.


----------



## wellington

DawnH said:


> Question!!
> 
> Is there a particular reason why you have not painted the inside of the night box? I’m asking because everyone thought I was crazy when I used exterior house paint and also painted the INSIDE of our chicken coop, but it find that makes cleanup much easier and it creates a barrier to keep the wood fresher and longer lasting in regards to feces/urine/water. I actually planned on doing that when I create Tuleo’s night box but I’m wondering if there’s a particular reason why I should NOT?
> 
> Thanks for any help you can give!
> 
> Dawn


There is no health reason, not to paint or seal. I painted the floor of my old shed too. But if you live in a area that has black widow spiders, I would follow Yvonne's advice and paint a light color inside.


----------



## Tom

DawnH said:


> Question!!
> 
> Is there a particular reason why you have not painted the inside of the night box? I’m asking because everyone thought I was crazy when I used exterior house paint and also painted the INSIDE of our chicken coop, but it find that makes cleanup much easier and it creates a barrier to keep the wood fresher and longer lasting in regards to feces/urine/water. I actually planned on doing that when I create Tuleo’s night box but I’m wondering if there’s a particular reason why I should NOT?
> 
> Thanks for any help you can give!
> 
> Dawn


I don't like the chemical fumes in a closed space. Makes me nervous. I also don't need to paint the surfaces because the wood holds up for years when left completely untreated. When it does eventually rot through after several years in a particularly messy night box like my female leopards who poop and pee in there every night, I simply put a patch over the affected area and it lasts for several more years until I remove that old patch and put on a new one. I have boxes that have been in use more than 10 years and have never needed any patching or repairs of any kind. Also, no paint will last where a tortoise comes into contact with it. They are too big, heavy and hard. Their shells, feet, legs and nails will rub the paint right off, and then you have a paint chip mess.

Also, paint has gotten exceedingly expensive. I'd rather not use it where I don't need it.


----------



## Romeo Serback

Would you recommend tile?


----------



## Tom

Romeo Serback said:


> Would you recommend tile?


Tile could work, but again, its just isn't necessary. If you want to spend the time, money and tremendous effort to tile in a tortoise box, then go for it. But they don't need it, and its going to be very heavy when you are done.


----------



## DawnH

Tom said:


> I don't like the chemical fumes in a closed space. Makes me nervous. I also don't need to paint the surfaces because the wood holds up for years when left completely untreated. When it does eventually rot through after several years in a particularly messy night box like my female leopards who poop and pee in there every night, I simply put a patch over the affected area and it lasts for several more years until I remove that old patch and put on a new one. I have boxes that have been in use more than 10 years and have never needed any patching or repairs of any kind. Also, no paint will last where a tortoise comes into contact with it. They are too big, heavy and hard. Their shells, feet, legs and nails will rub the paint right off, and then you have a paint chip mess.
> 
> Also, paint has gotten exceedingly expensive. I'd rather not use it where I don't need it.



Makes sense but I only use low VOC paint and I’m highly sensitive to smells and have had no issues. I would probably paint it during the spring months and let it air out for weeks before I closed it up. Plus I would never purchase paint for this project, just use leftover exterior house paint (like we did for the coop) that we already have around. I might try it just to see if I think it’s worth it for the next go around. I just know that however fast I try and get to his messes, it leaves unsightly staining that IS still pee and poop, no matter how much you try and clean it. I thinking it might be a more sanitary option. Plus I can’t see the paint chipping, mostly getting scratched up. We painted wood floors before and had the dogs (Great Dane and German Shepherd) did minimal scratching, I know a bull headed tortoise is different but I might try it just so I can see if it works or not. I was able to hose/disinfect the coop out every spring and it held up great. (Coop photo shown before we added perches and outer walls. We added 2" of sand at the bottom and just scoop feces with a cat litter scoop and toss it in the garden beds.)

Yes, I paint like a 5 year old...lol


----------



## Always pondering

Hi Tom,
I used your box design to build one for our new Sulcata. Thank you very much for sharing all of this it made things a lot easier. I have a question about the RHP. How far above the tortoise should it be? At the moment I have it like 2-3" above where she would be. 

Our girl, Timmy JoJo, is about 13" tall, she's about 12 yrs old and came to us from a family member who also has a big 100lb male who they rescued recently and one had to go.
My wife made this account but I guess I'm the one who will be posting. 
Thank you again 
Rich


----------



## Clorenzo85

Tom said:


> I did it again.
> And I'm going to keep doing it too!
> 
> Here is the latest night box. Its similar to the others, but I wanted to show more of the electrics involved and how I use them. I made this one for my two returning Gpp females. I gave these two girls to a friend in 2010 and he raised them. They both turned out to be female, while most of mine are male. He offered to give them back to me in the hopes of producing some babies in the future. They will live alone for a couple of months for quarantine and fecal exam purposes, but then they will join the other girls.
> 
> Here we go...
> 
> Here is the almost finished box showing the yet uncovered insulation inside the walls.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is the assortment of equipment going into this box:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The heat mat and radiant heat panel have been mounted here, as has the shoe box that will hold all the excess wires.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here you can see all the cords and the thermostat all hooked up and stuffed into the shoe box. You can also see my thermostat probe hanging on the wall on the "cool" side. Notice the "drip loops" on the cord coming in to the box and inside the box. More on that later.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Close up of the shoe box:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> See how nice it looks with the cords all contained?  Notice that drip loop again...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A wider view of the whole thing. In this one you can see my GFI circuit that I'm plugged into:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is that "drip loop" that I keep talking about. I learned this back in my early aquarium days. You see, water runs downhill. Amazing right?! In the event of an earthquake or other aquarium splashes, the idea is that if you have a "loop" so that your cords always run downhill first and then uphill into your outlets, water will not be guided into your outlet. Instead it will come to the bottom of the loop and drip down to the ground harmlessly. I did one outside this new tortoise box and inside, just to be safe.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here it is open for business.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In my excitement I forgot to get pics of the new inhabitants. I'll get some pics and post those later.



Hi, where did you buy that heating system. I have to order it.


----------



## Tom

Clorenzo85 said:


> Hi, where did you buy that heating system. I have to order it.


You can order the Kane Mat from https://www.tortoisesupply.com/kane
Radiant heat panel from http://www.reptilebasics.com/rbi-radiant-heat-panels
And the thermostat here: https://www.lllreptile.com/products/13883-zilla-1000-watt-temperature-controller


----------



## Clorenzo85

Tom said:


> You can order the Kane Mat from https://www.tortoisesupply.com/kane
> Radiant heat panel from http://www.reptilebasics.com/rbi-radiant-heat-panels
> And the thermostat here: https://www.lllreptile.com/products/13883-zilla-1000-watt-temperature-controller



Awesome!! Thank you. How many Wats for each one? Does it depend on the room temperature?


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## Clorenzo85

Tom said:


> You can order the Kane Mat from https://www.tortoisesupply.com/kane
> Radiant heat panel from http://www.reptilebasics.com/rbi-radiant-heat-panels
> And the thermostat here: https://www.lllreptile.com/products/13883-zilla-1000-watt-temperature-controller



Sorry to keep bothering you. Donatello's enclosure is 4 ft x 6 ft and 11 inches tall. Where he'll be sleep is (2 ft x 1ft and 4 inches), also 11 inches tall. It's an open enclosure that is in a 9ft length x 11 ft width and 7 ft and 5 inches height room, with room temperature being 75 to 78 degrees Fahrenheit. I am thinking that the 40 watt radiant heat panel will be enough and the 18 x18 46 watt Kane Mat will work. What do you think?


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## Tom

Clorenzo85 said:


> Awesome!! Thank you. How many Wats for each one? Does it depend on the room temperature?


In a properly insulated and sealed night box, the 80 watt versions work well for me.


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## kmloughran

Tom- Have you even installed gas springs to aid in the lifting of the lid? Thinking about installing some to assist my wife in lifting it up, and to keep if from slamming shut. If you have, do you have any brand suggestions?


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## Tom

kmloughran said:


> Tom- Have you even installed gas springs to aid in the lifting of the lid? Thinking about installing some to assist my wife in lifting it up, and to keep if from slamming shut. If you have, do you have any brand suggestions?


I never have, but I've thought about it many times. I'm a big macho man (at least in my own mind...) and I just lift them up with a heave every single day. But when I'm out of town or busy, my wife, daughter and mom all help me look after things, and those lids on the 4x8' boxes are darn heavy for the ladies.

I think the gas shocks are a great idea, and someone here on the forum has done it at least once with good results. I don't know how to find that thread, but it was probably a year or two ago, and I just never got around to trying it. The thing that always held me up was figuring out attachment points. There are no studs in the middle of my walls and I don't want all that tension and weight torquing on 11/32 plywood. I'd have to add in a 2x4 and attach it to the top and bottom 2x4s used in the framing.

If you pursue the idea, please do a thread on it. Show how and where you attach the ends and where you get the shocks. I think you'll inspire me and others to do the same.


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## kmloughran

I'll work on it and keep you posted. Thank goodness I followed your lead and took pictures as I built my box so I can remember where potential attachment points are.


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## Big Charlie

kmloughran said:


> Tom- Have you even installed gas springs to aid in the lifting of the lid? Thinking about installing some to assist my wife in lifting it up, and to keep if from slamming shut. If you have, do you have any brand suggestions?


I wanted some springs to keep the lid from slamming shut. It was easier to attach a hook on the wall above so I could keep the lid propped open.


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## kmloughran

Strange enough... I’m having a tough time finding plastic flaps for the doorway. Mine is 24x24.... suggestions on where to look anyone? Our only local hardware store is HD, and they don’t have it.


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## Tom

kmloughran said:


> Strange enough... I’m having a tough time finding plastic flaps for the doorway. Mine is 24x24.... suggestions on where to look anyone? Our only local hardware store is HD, and they don’t have it.


Try searching for commercial freezer door flaps.


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## Always pondering

kmloughran said:


> Strange enough... I’m having a tough time finding plastic flaps for the doorway. Mine is 24x24.... suggestions on where to look anyone? Our only local hardware store is HD, and they don’t have it.


I found it at Tap Plastics. I ordered 6”x6’ for $1.45 a foot. Shipping was more than the plastic but total was $26. That was last October. Hope this helps.


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## Romeo Serback

Thanks!!!


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## Blackdog1714

Try a truck stop there mud flaps last a long time. Not sure if they would be too thick?


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## JLM

I used the shocks on my nightbox. I’ll try to find my thread


https://www.tortoiseforum.org/threa...or-enclosure-build.153194/page-4#post-1745936

There’s video on this thread of the shocks in action.


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## Blackdog1714

Found this on Amazon for the door https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07GJV2PC7/?tag=exoticpetnetw-20


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## Nash

Tom, I've saved this thread for 5 years, knowing that eventually I was going to need to build this. My 5 year old male sulcata is doing real well, thanks to you and all the professional advice that I've followed and now it's time for my husband and I to build him one of your night boxes. To my dismay, the step by step pictures you once posted while you were building it won't come up anymore. I just get a big happy face man dancing. And while you're at it...I did find the materials list, has it changed? Thanks


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## Tom

Nash said:


> Tom, I've saved this thread for 5 years, knowing that eventually I was going to need to build this. My 5 year old male sulcata is doing real well, thanks to you and all the professional advice that I've followed and now it's time for my husband and I to build him one of your night boxes. To my dismay, the step by step pictures you once posted while you were building it won't come up anymore. I just get a big happy face man dancing. And while you're at it...I did find the materials list, has it changed? Thanks


Bummer about those third party websites shutting down. All those pics lost.

Here are the new threads. I'll just include all of them for you:





Single Tortoise Night Box


I like my larger tortoises to live outside full time. My climate permits this year round with a little help. For people who live where it snows all winter, this type of box is still good for warmer weather, getting them out earlier in Spring, and keeping them out a bit later into fall. You'll...




tortoiseforum.org









Double Door Night Box


As the years have gone by and I build more of these boxes, I learn more and more each time. This one is the latest and I incorporated everything I've learned over the years. I also tried to take lots of pics so I can explain in more detail some of what is going on. It will take multiple posts to...




tortoiseforum.org









Here is the 4x8 rendering of Tom's Night Box. With Exploded view.


This is a rendering I did based off of @Tom 's heated night box enclosure. Its probably not a 100% accurate. Door is offset to one side for my personal needs but can easily be moved. Let me know if you see any issues with it. Feed back appreciated. High res renderings can be downloaded here...




tortoiseforum.org









What You'll Need to Build A Night Box


I just typed up a list of the needed supplies to build a night box and thought I'd copy paste it here: For sulcatas, I make the doors 26x16". This will fit all but the largest of large males for their entire life. If you end up with one of the giants, you will eventually have to make another...




tortoiseforum.org


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## Nash

Thanks Tom!


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## kmloughran

Still haven’t installed the heating elements, Or the plastic door flaps, but this is our guys’s daytime setup now. In a couple of weeks, it will be his full time summer house. Thanks for your advice and guidance.


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## Tom

kmloughran said:


> Still haven’t installed the heating elements, Or the plastic door flaps, but this is our guys’s daytime setup now. In a couple of weeks, it will be his full time summer house. Thanks for your advice and guidance.


That looks nice, but the tortoise needs a much larger area than that. 4 times that size would be a minimum.


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## kmloughran

Thanks again for all your help.


Tom said:


> That looks nice, but the tortoise needs a much larger area than that. 4 times that size would be a minimum.


This is a temporary enclosure while we finish our yard. We let him out to roam every day. We’ll have him in a 15x15 by the end of the summer.


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## JeffR

Three season accommodations 

I flipped the bottom and sealed it into the top with foam insulation, making it double walled. I then used insulation board inside. I doubled up on a clear shower curtain for the the door and placed it on a heat pad with an ink bird WiFi thermostat. It stays in the high 70’s even when temps are in the 50’s and actually stays in the 80’s even when it hits 100. I do have to tuck a couple of torts in who are not smart enough to get out of the cold


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## ZEROPILOT

@Tom,
Do you use outdoor extension cords?
I have a waterproof electrical outlet with a ground fault interrupt on the back of my house.
I run OUTDOORS extension cords out to my timer that runs my tortoise CHE night box heaters.
There's another one that goes to my fish pond pumps.
Each junction is in a separate water proof plastic box.
I haven't found a way that looks good to run those cords. And the real issue has been the harsh Florida sun. The UV starts making the cords hard and a bit dangerous after about 3 years each.
I've considered burying them in pvc pipes. Or covering them in a garden hose.
Right now. They run across a garden trellis. More or less out of sight. But with little protection.
I've just ordered a new set of 14 gauge extra thick outdoor cords and another outdoor timer. Getting ready for our chilliest 54 degree Winter days.
Is cord replacement an issue elsewhere?


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## Tom

ZEROPILOT said:


> @Tom,
> Do you use outdoor extension cords?
> I have a waterproof electrical outlet with a ground fault interrupt on the back of my house.
> I run OUTDOORS extension cords out to my timer that runs my tortoise CHE night box heaters.
> There's another one that goes to my fish pond pumps.
> Each junction is in a separate water proof plastic box.
> I haven't found a way that looks good to run those cords. And the real issue has been the harsh Florida sun. The UV starts making the cords hard and a bit dangerous after about 3 years each.
> I've considered burying them in pvc pipes. Or covering them in a garden hose.
> Right now. They run across a garden trellis. More or less out of sight. But with little protection.
> I've just ordered a new set of 14 gauge extra thick outdoor cords and another outdoor timer. Getting ready for our chilliest 54 degree Winter days.
> Is cord replacement an issue elsewhere?


I do. I use extension cords to go from the outlet into the box. I keep them as short as possible and bury them in PVC where I can. You can see that here:





Double Door Night Box


As the years have gone by and I build more of these boxes, I learn more and more each time. This one is the latest and I incorporated everything I've learned over the years. I also tried to take lots of pics so I can explain in more detail some of what is going on. It will take multiple posts to...




tortoiseforum.org


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## DarkerGraphic

Tom said:


> This thread was more about the electrical stuff that goes into it.
> 
> This one shows more of the construction:
> http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/my-best-night-box-design-yet.66867/


All the images are expired, any chance you’re willing to repost them?


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## Tom

DarkerGraphic said:


> All the images are expired, any chance you’re willing to repost them?


Those images are lost, but here are two threads showing similar boxes:





Double Door Night Box


As the years have gone by and I build more of these boxes, I learn more and more each time. This one is the latest and I incorporated everything I've learned over the years. I also tried to take lots of pics so I can explain in more detail some of what is going on. It will take multiple posts to...




tortoiseforum.org










Single Tortoise Night Box


I like my larger tortoises to live outside full time. My climate permits this year round with a little help. For people who live where it snows all winter, this type of box is still good for warmer weather, getting them out earlier in Spring, and keeping them out a bit later into fall. You'll...




tortoiseforum.org





And I'm happy to answer any questions.


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## hydro708

Tom said:


> I did it again.
> And I'm going to keep doing it too!
> 
> Here is the latest night box. Its similar to the others, but I wanted to show more of the electrics involved and how I use them. I made this one for my two returning Gpp females. I gave these two girls to a friend in 2010 and he raised them. They both turned out to be female, while most of mine are male. He offered to give them back to me in the hopes of producing some babies in the future. They will live alone for a couple of months for quarantine and fecal exam purposes, but then they will join the other girls.
> 
> Here we go...
> 
> Here is the almost finished box showing the yet uncovered insulation inside the walls.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is the assortment of equipment going into this box:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The heat mat and radiant heat panel have been mounted here, as has the shoe box that will hold all the excess wires.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here you can see all the cords and the thermostat all hooked up and stuffed into the shoe box. You can also see my thermostat probe hanging on the wall on the "cool" side. Notice the "drip loops" on the cord coming in to the box and inside the box. More on that later.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Close up of the shoe box:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> See how nice it looks with the cords all contained?  Notice that drip loop again...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A wider view of the whole thing. In this one you can see my GFI circuit that I'm plugged into:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is that "drip loop" that I keep talking about. I learned this back in my early aquarium days. You see, water runs downhill. Amazing right?! In the event of an earthquake or other aquarium splashes, the idea is that if you have a "loop" so that your cords always run downhill first and then uphill into your outlets, water will not be guided into your outlet. Instead it will come to the bottom of the loop and drip down to the ground harmlessly. I did one outside this new tortoise box and inside, just to be safe.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here it is open for business.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In my excitement I forgot to get pics of the new inhabitants. I'll get some pics and post those later.


Your pictures are gone how can I see them


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## Tom

hydro708 said:


> Your pictures are gone how can I see them


Scroll up one post to #164, just above yours.


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## hydro708

Hey... what do you know I guess I helped if I could read...lol thanks Tom for sharing all of your knowledge with us.! I appreciate it


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## Tom

hydro708 said:


> Hey... what do you know I guess I helped if I could read...lol thanks Tom for sharing all of your knowledge with us.! I appreciate it


HA! No one expects you to read 9 pages of an old thread just to find the one sentence that you needed. I just happened to remember because I just posted that a couple fo weeks ago on this thread.

I'm happy to help. Questions are welcome.


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## hydro708

What's your fed back about these 77in by 36in and 12 high I was thinking about putting clay hydroponic pebbles on the bottom and the soil so the plants have good moisture underneath I was also going to put 2 together and cut a hole so they can go back and forth. I was also going to cover it with plexiglass . What do u think will that work for a closed chamber enclosure?


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