# wow... what dissapointment



## rav007 (Nov 14, 2009)

was at the show today in Arizona, stopped by the "blue beast" reptile booth.. and low and behold they had an aldabra tortoise, i was so excited to see one up close. I simply asked if i could see it (it was behind a screen) i was promptly told no, we only show it to serous buyers. What jerks. I'm sure you found many "serous" buyers today interested in a tort that gets that large and cost over 2grand? With customer service like that I can guarantee I will never buy a thing from your company and I will tell the same to others. You lost yourself more than one sale today my friends.


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## Madkins007 (Nov 14, 2009)

Just playing devils advocate here, but if you were running the booth and in charge of a popular $2000 dollar animal- what would you do to manage its stress levels?


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## rav007 (Nov 14, 2009)

Madkins007 said:


> Just playing devils advocate here, but if you were running the booth and in charge of a popular $2000 dollar animal- what would you do to manage its stress levels?



i wouldn't put it on front display on a table?

its the point.... 2000$ or not, how would you like to walk into a store and ask to see a product and be told "only serious buyers?"


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## Kadaan (Nov 14, 2009)

rav007 said:


> i wouldn't put it on front display on a table?
> 
> its the point.... 2000$ or not, how would you like to walk into a store and ask to see a product and be told "only serious buyers?"



Devil's advocate again... a normal product and a live animal aren't really comparable. The wording he used may not have the best/most polite, but I don't think it was wrong for him to not want to let people handle it unless they're thinking about buying it.


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## Tim/Robin (Nov 15, 2009)

Question: Was it visible to you or how did you know he had it? 
If you saw it, then you can't say you did not "see" it. What happened to "see with your eyes, not your hands"? If I were in Tyler's situation, I would not have let everyone that passed by "see it" either. I agree with Kadaan, it is a living animal that certainly is not used to being a display piece. This was an reptile expo/show, not a petting zoo!!  I certainly do not think this is any indication of a bad business or poor customer service. It seems to me more like a concerned owner who cares for his animals.

Tim


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## GBtortoises (Nov 15, 2009)

Most vendors at shows don't allow people to pick up their animals not because they are concerned about their stress levels, but because they are worried about the animals getting stolen. Almost every show that I have been to are usually people crowded shoulder to shoulder. At tables where there is alot of interesting stuff the crowd is sometimes two, three or four people deep too. Someone could easily be "looking" at an animal and disappear into the crowd and out the door before the vendor has seen them leave. There are people that go to shows to do just that, steal animals. rav007, I'm not implying that you're one of those people at all. But you have to look at it from the vendors point of view too. They have alot of money sitting there that they need to protect. They get the same question all day long, from hundreds of people: "Can I look at that one". They're running a business, not a zoo.


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## bettinge (Nov 15, 2009)

If I were a potential buyer, I would think twice about pay $2K for a manhandled and stressed animal! 

It seems that maybe the vendor was a jerk and did not handle the potential customer with respect. Sounds like he knows how to treat tortoises better than people. A simple sign explaing their stance on tortoise handling could have gone a long ways to handle customer expectations.


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## Lynn DeVries (Nov 15, 2009)

Tyler Stewart from Bluebeast Reptile is one of the most polite and caring people that I have ever met. I have purchased many Tortoises from Tyler, sight unseen. 

Lynn DeVries


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## Candy (Nov 15, 2009)

Ravoo7, I have to disagree with you. I went to the Anaheim Convention Center reptile show that Tyler was at and I was more than able to see his Aldabra up close. I didn't ask to touch it because I wasn't in the market to buy a tortoise of that amount. Tyler and his wife were nothing but polite and very knowledgeble and helpful about all of their tortoises. Maybe because you are not a breeder you don't understand the other side of it. I noticed that you haven't been on this site very much maybe that's why you don't know Tyler, but we do and he's nothing less then professional and if I wanted another tortoise he is definetely one of the ones I'd go to. He definetly is not going to lose any business from this site from your post. No business lost here, sorry.


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## Madkins007 (Nov 15, 2009)

rav007 said:


> i wouldn't put it on front display on a table?
> 
> its the point.... 2000$ or not, how would you like to walk into a store and ask to see a product and be told "only serious buyers?"



Have you ever asked to test drive a Lamborghini, or hold a really expensive piece of jewelery? There are entire stores that only let the 'serious buyers' inside.


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## rav007 (Nov 15, 2009)

Your all right.. everyone's main concern was the stress of their animals at this show. I mean, no one was picking up the leopard or the thousands of Sulcatas at the show.. or handling the large amount of redfoots at this show. stressing out the cheap stuff is ok, right? Because its 40$ its ok?

I must look at these "expos" different than most, its a time to learn, see new things, ask questions and maybe find the right animal for you. I don't consider any of my animals "breeding machines" or a means of income, they are members of my family. I asked to see it and quite honestly you right,that can mean a thousand things - my meaning was to take the screen off so I could get a close look at it. Maybe they should have taken the time to ask or say "ok, but please dont handle", i wouldn't have taken offense to that. There was a very high chance I was going to purchase it but after being told we only show it to serous buyers i wouldn't have even considered it. I know what its like to be told "you look like you don't have enough money". If you only show it to serious buyers, don't put it on display with the cheap stuff that "non-serious" buyers can handle.

I must ask, would you buy a 30+ grand car without a test drive? and would you buy that same car if you knew someone else had test driven it before? Apples to oranges you might say..but i disagree. what if they told you that you they only let serious buyers test drive? I don't know about you but I would leave that dealership on the spot and go to another, even if that meant purchasing a different vehicle. If you are willing to purchase an animal sight unseen that's your cup-of-tea but i personally wouldn't purchase anything (animal or otherwise) sight unseen, its my cup-of-tea. and I know you might disagree but that's how it is and before you start with the snide remarks about "but what if you purchase something online.." let me stop you there - i can always return it or send it to the manufacturer if its not working or defective. I have never purchased an animal online and i would not consider it without pictures (again, just seeing it not asking to pick it up)

I understand you all go immediately to the health of the animal - and i completely agree.. but it was painfully obvious at this show that was not the concern of "everyone" there.

I welcome all of your disagreements - and i have been a member here for over a year and before that i was a "lurker"... I post very little and there is a reason... i read a lot and i find my answers to my questions without having to ask the same question over and over and over. I do my research and i can assure you if i do post a question there will be no simple answer. this was something that really got under my skin.

And to address the lost business - your right maybe around here, but I turn a lot of people in my life on to getting herps of all kinds- not everyone interested in tort's goes online and posts on forums - and believe me the first thing I tell someone who is interested in torts or has a tort is to come to this site, it is a wealth of knowledge.



Madkins007 said:


> rav007 said:
> 
> 
> > i wouldn't put it on front display on a table?
> ...



and to this I say don't bring a Lamborghini to a Honda Dealership - i know better than to walk into a Lambo dealer good sir.


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## SunsetHypo (Nov 15, 2009)

I understand your dismay when he told you no you cannot hold the animal, but lets think about germs. Whenever you buy a new animal you are advised to isolate it from your other pets to avoid transmission of illness. At a pet expo there are thousands of animals that you could have handled prior to asking permission to handle his aldabra. What if you handling that animal caused the animal to get sick and die? I know it sounds extreme, but it is a very real possibility. Now if you had an expensive pet would you risk letting it catch something. I don't think I would. 

Gary


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## rav007 (Nov 15, 2009)

SunsetHypo said:


> I understand your dismay when he told you no you cannot hold the animal, but lets think about germs. Whenever you buy a new animal you are advised to isolate it from your other pets to avoid transmission of illness. At a pet expo there are thousands of animals that you could have handled prior to asking permission to handle his aldabra. What if you handling that animal caused the animal to get sick and die? I know it sounds extreme, but it is a very real possibility. Now if you had an expensive pet would you risk letting it catch something. I don't think I would.
> 
> Gary



If we use that logic than why are people handling hatchling sulcatas, hatchling redfoots, leopards, hatchling russians, ect..? Shouldn't all animals be treated with this same rules regarding disease? Or is it that someone said that because this animal is worth 2000 that its life is more valuable than that of a 40$ sulcata? 

I want you all to understand it has nothing to do with holding the animal - i did not ask to hold it, i asked to see it. it was in a 3 foot plus cage and at the other end with a screen top on it + bedding. I wanted a closer look i said could i see it pointing at the screen- as i stated i know this can be taken 10,000 different ways but i was immediately told "no, we only show to serous buyers" - not "sure, but don't pick it up" -i would not have taken any offense to this.


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## mctlong (Nov 15, 2009)

You make a good point. It was strange of the dealer to assume that you're not a serious buyer. What does a "serious buyer" for aldabras look like?


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## rav007 (Nov 15, 2009)

bettinge said:


> If I were a potential buyer, I would think twice about pay $2K for a manhandled and stressed animal!
> 
> It seems that maybe the vendor was a jerk and did not handle the potential customer with respect. Sounds like he knows how to treat tortoises better than people. A simple sign explaing their stance on tortoise handling could have gone a long ways to handle customer expectations.



I agree 100% with you.


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## Stephanie Logan (Nov 15, 2009)

Now that I am a tortoise keeper my assumptions about tortoises have changed completely. I let my brother-in-law approach Taco and before I knew it he roughly and suddenly stuck his finger in her shoulder cavity. I have never seen her retract herself back into her her so far and so fast. I know he didn't mean to scare her, and he thought she'd "like that" (because Oscar, their childhood desert tortoise, had liked to be scratched there), but I was very angry and almost yelled at him for frightening her so badly.

Once when my 17-year-old had some of her friends over, she got Taco out to show them. I stuck my head around the corner to check on them right as one boy turned her over on her back. I rushed over and spoke sharply to him as I righted her and then took her away. I know he didn't realize what he was doing may harm her, but I had to put my tortoise's safety and well-being ahead of this nice young man's feelings.

Here on the forum we were recently treated to a YouTube video of a teen-aged girl "surfing" a Sulcata tortoise, and most of us found it offensive and cruel, even though the girl probably didn't have a clue that she might be hurting the tortoise (she seemed pretty clueless in general, judging from the posts accompanying the video).

I agree that the vendor could have been more polite in refusing your request to see the Aldabran, but I can understand his caution in keeping the general public at a distance from his pet.


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## dmmj (Nov 15, 2009)

I have never dealt with this company but I must say If I had a 2000$ tortoise I would only show it to serious buyers, I was rasied that you can look with your eyes not your hands, you said you could see it in it enclosure I don't really see what a closer view would have gotten you except waste the employe's time for a look-e-loo, no offense. Could the employee have handled it better? ,maybe Are you within your rights to never do business with them again? yes. I think that stress and theft may be the main concerns, but again since I have never dealt with them I can not really say, just my 2 cents.


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## rav007 (Nov 15, 2009)

Stephanie Logan said:


> Now that I am a tortoise keeper my assumptions about tortoises have changed completely. I let my brother-in-law approach Taco and before I knew it he roughly and suddenly stuck his finger in her shoulder cavity. I have never seen her retract herself back into her her so far and so fast. I know he didn't mean to scare her, and he thought she'd "like that" (because Oscar, their childhood desert tortoise, had liked to be scratched there), but I was very angry and almost yelled at him for frightening her so badly.
> 
> Once when my 17-year-old had some of her friends over, she got Taco out to show them. I stuck my head around the corner to check on them right as one boy turned her over on her back. I rushed over and spoke sharply to him as I righted her and then took her away. I know he didn't realize what he was doing may harm her, but I had to put my tortoise's safety and well-being ahead of this nice young man's feelings.
> 
> ...



I agree - I don't put my animals into a position that could endanger them or those viewing them in any way. And on that note i don't let anyone other than myself or my wife handle any of our animals with the exception of our beardies. If someone asks I explain that they can be bitten or suddenly scared (animal or person) and the animal could fall and be injured or killed - i understand this to the fullest extent but one thing i do is explain why. I always take them out and let other pet them (with the exception for the larger lizards.. and again i explain why)
I have never refused anyone's request to "See it" - and i have never made anyone feel bad for asking to see it.

On the other hand i never have nor would i take any of my animals to a "expo or show" because i know what the expectation is - and if my expectation if different from that of the show (please dont handle the aldabra) then i would explain why to the people that did ask to see it. 

I want to ask you all to think of a time... a time when you had such great customer service (for anything in your life) and it may even be from someone at Bluebeast reptiles.. didnt you feel so good about the whole expereience? Didnt you walk away feeling 100% confident and reassured?

Now i ask you to think of a time when you had horrible customer service.. maybe it was at was when you wern't feeling well and you went to the pharmacy to get a prescription and were treated rudely by the staff
maybe it was when you went out to dinner and you asked the waiter 3 times for a refill on a drink for your child
Maybe it was a time when you asked a store associate if they could "checkin the back" for a product and they lied and told you "if its not on the shelf wereout of stock" when you know that in the past they have checked in the back for you.
Did you walk away with a good feeling, positive ? I work in the medical field and in previous lives i have worked in "customer service". How would you like it if your father/mother/grandmother/child was dieing of cancer and he/she had a rude, unsympathetic nurse taking care of him/her in his/her final days?

Extreme examples you might say.. but its all about how you treat and are treated by others.



dmmj said:


> I have never dealt with this company but I must say If I had a 2000$ tortoise I would only show it to serious buyers, I was rasied that you can look with your eyes not your hands, you said you could see it in it enclosure I don't really see what a closer view would have gotten you except waste the employe's time for a look-e-loo, no offense. Could the employee have handled it better? ,maybe Are you within your rights to never do business with them again? yes. I think that stress and theft may be the main concerns, but again since I have never dealt with them I can not really say, just my 2 cents.



waste their time? Well then, apparently you can tell who is going to purchase and who is not just by looking at them.


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## Madkins007 (Nov 15, 2009)

I have to say that I am jealous that so many of you have access to big expos. Here in Omaha, the local herp club runs a small one twice a year- one recent show had a couple big sliders and a Red-foot (medium small, moderate pyramiding, priced about twice what you would expect.)

When you do an expo or any sort of trade show, you bring an assortment of stuff- your 'bread and butter' items, your 'hope to sell' items (often clearance stuff you just want to get rid of), some of the hot new stuff, and you try to bring things that will attract eyeballs to your booth. 

Some expos use 'boothbabes', some use performers, some use contest and interactive things. It sounds to me like Blue Beast was using the Aldabra for the attention getter. And it sounds like it worked... sorta.

What does a serious $2k tort buyer 'look like'? Any salesperson worth their keep can tell if someone is a buyer or a looker. I'll bet you a nickel you've seen that in action shopping where the sales staff gets commissions. The sales staff gravitate towards the buyers and the junior staff gets the lookers and the low-commission sales. 

Now, to ME, your next step is to contact Blue Beast and express your disappointment (and phrase it as disappointment rather than outrage) over the exchange and see what they say. How they handle complaints says a lot about the company. If they blow you off, you have every right to keep venting and posting- but give them a chance to share their side.


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## rav007 (Nov 15, 2009)

Madkins007 said:


> I have to say that I am jealous that so many of you have access to big expos. Here in Omaha, the local herp club runs a small one twice a year- one recent show had a couple big sliders and a Red-foot (medium small, moderate pyramiding, priced about twice what you would expect.)
> 
> When you do an expo or any sort of trade show, you bring an assortment of stuff- your 'bread and butter' items, your 'hope to sell' items (often clearance stuff you just want to get rid of), some of the hot new stuff, and you try to bring things that will attract eyeballs to your booth.
> 
> ...



I don't have the same mindset as the majority when it comes to shows/expos it seems... i understand you are puting your "best herp forward" so to speak - but i didn't realize this is treated similar to a used car lot? (ahh yes, there's a sucker now and he looks like he has some dough) Yes to your question I have seen this in action - but I have also gone to commission based stores with the intent to buy and given the cold shoulder because they THOUGHT i wasn't going to buy, Maybe I don't put that vibe "hey, easy sucker right here" out into the air for them to sniff out and target me, maybe its because I do my research before I even go to the store.. maybe its because 97% of the questions I ask they cant answer *i want to add a note to this comment, in the herp world i find that if i have a question when asking someone face to face the person usually very knowledgeable or willing to admit they don't know*. 


I agree- i am interested in hearing their rebuttal - i know they post on this site frequently which is why I posted this here in the first place.


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## dmmj (Nov 15, 2009)

Well I think you would be able to tell a serious buyer from a look-e-loo IMHO, people often betray their true intent with subconscious movements and such. I am not trying to say you did anything wrong but I am pretty sure they could probably tell that you were not a serious buyer, I am sorry if you are offended but that is just the way I see it. Maybe they felt that the way you were asking to see it and from your tone and mannerisms that you were not serious, I don't know I was not there. Speaking of boothbabes I go to E3 every year and they have them everywhere, using super hot chicks to get geeks into your booth to talk about video games usually works.


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## bikerchicspain (Nov 15, 2009)

I agree with the seller just because the animal is on sale doesnt mean that just anyone can go and pick the poor animal and stress her out, I am the same with my customers i will not get a rabbit out jusr because some small kids wants to hold it, or a snake because a bloke wants to look macho in front of hi mates or girlfriend. Yes its a business but to me the animal is first and foremost.If your a genuine buyer then yes hold it examine it etc.. I dont mean to offend anyone but those are my views..


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## Candy (Nov 15, 2009)

O.K. he didn't say that he wanted to pick the animal up he said that he wanted to see it (which he said was to lift up the screen). He's said that now about 2 to 3 times. Sorry I just had to mention that.

I was just wondering how this post got to page 3 after I just posted something 31 minutes ago. Do they get moved or deleted somehow?


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## tortoisenerd (Nov 15, 2009)

At the reptile show I went to recently, one of the things I disliked most about the vendors (and all that I interacted with were like this) is that they had no authority over who was handling their torts. They did not encourage hand sanitizer use nor use between handling different species, although maybe 1/4 of them had it on the table. No care to limit the stress to the animals. Not a single hide, cramped conditions, etc. It seemed like all they cared about was selling the animals. They only time we got so much of a look was when my husband held a tortoise up at eye level to look under it to tell the sex as I was giving him a hands-on lesson (he didn't flip it over though). I commend the person selling the Aldabra for their attitude in wanting to protect it as shows enough are stressful on a tortoise even without the direct human contact, although I wonder how they can tell serious buyers from people who are just curious. Do you have to have cash in hand or something? Have called ahead?

Interesting topic. Thank you for sharing.


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## Madkins007 (Nov 15, 2009)

rav007 said:


> I agree- i am interested in hearing their rebuttal - i know they post on this site frequently which is why I posted this here in the first place.



I don't know your background, but I am a 51-year old guy who has worked in jobs that demanded customer service and satisfaction since working at a full-service gas station (the only kind we had back then) in 1972 when I was in Junior High.

My training and experience tells me that you will get quicker and better satisfaction if you contact them directly. The dispute is between you and one of their staff- you should give them a chance to resolve or explain it privately as well.


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## bettinge (Nov 15, 2009)

I visit many different manufacturing facilities each year and deal with both owners as well as $8/hour "help". The one lesson I learned early in my career is that the lowest level worker and owner often look and act alike. Never judge or assume your dealing with an uneducated, know nothing rookie. I did that once and much to my surprise it was the very successful owner of the plant with several hundred employees.

Moral of the story "serious buyers don't look or act like anything"! A good salesperson treats everyone as if they are going to buy, Weather its a $40 sulcata or a $20k galapagos! By treating everyone as a potental customer, you build relationships that may pay off, even if the sale is not that day!


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## Meg90 (Nov 15, 2009)

Honestly, good for them.

The protection of animals at expos IS lax, I was stunned by how quickly they will unlock a drawer if you want to see something. 

At the NARBC show, Tinley, tort "brokers" would let you hold the babies. They obviously, obviously did not produce them. Most had to echo MY question over their shoulder to someone else.

At that same show, was a EmysEmys breeder. He had hatchlings, yearlings, and torts several years old. And I am pretty sure he had a sign that said serious buyers only for handling. This man knew his stuff, and wanted only the best for his animals.

If you wanted to SEE the tortoise so badly, why did you not persist and make yourself clear? All you would have had to say was "I don't want to handle it, but can you move the screen aside?"

This thread started out with someone who seemed like they only wanted to badmouth a good breeder, and business man, because they were told the dreaded "no". I agree with whoever said that you should have addressed this privately if you wanted a response from BlueBeast. I am not going to backtrack through two pages to find out who said it.

I am hoping to have part of a table in a local show in the spring. And do you think I'm going to pop a baby out for who ever wants to hold it? No. If that "offends" people, tough nuts. The animals health, and safety comes first.

Especially when we are talking about a rare, large tortoise that is still hard to come by CB because of small clutches, low numbers of breeding animals and the amount of time it takes to reach maturity. Heck, I would have LOVED to hold an . But would I have bought it? No. So I would respect the seller, and the animal and keep my hands to myself.


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## Crazy1 (Nov 15, 2009)

rav007, I've read your comments and the comments of everyone else have you PM'd or emailed Tyler? Perhaps that is a way to get an answer from him or message him on his site. 
I have known Tyler for some time now and done quite a bit of business with him. He, his wife and son seem like great people who do think of their animals. At the last show I attended I asked if they could move the screen so I could take a picture and see the Aldabra and was answered with "sure no problem" Perhaps his response was not the best but perhaps your request was not either. I do hope you try and clear the air with Tyler he is one of the good guys in my opinion.


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## terryo (Nov 15, 2009)

We have a herp club here and sometimes we have very small learning expo's. We had Frog day a while back and there were lots of venders with every kind of frog, all kinds of things to buy. The turtles..some water or boxie and tortoise's that were there were NOT for sale, just to look at. There were signs all over saying Look, listen, but don't touch. I noticed some people were adamant about asking to hold something or they just picked things up to look at something as they walked by. There were a few venders that had to become a little rude when telling the people to stop touching. I could understand how nervous they were because there were so many people and it would have been very easy to pick up a little tub with a small frog and put it in your pocket. On of the girls from the club was a nervous wreck trying to watch everyone, as she was responsible for these animals.
I have never met Tyler Stewart in person, but know people who have bought from him and only say nice things about him. I'm sure the people working at the tables were all pretty stressed out worrying about their animals.


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## mctlong (Nov 15, 2009)

Perhaps the vendor was a little nervous about all the people swarming around his animals as Terry pointed out. I definitely understand the need to protect the animals. I would not buy animals from a vendor who was allowing random people to handle their torts. It stresses the animals out and unnecessarily exposes them to germs. However, I think the situation with Rav007 is a little different. It sounds like Rav007 did not want to manhandle the aldabra. It sounds like he just wanted a better look and had his feelings hurt because he felt that the vendor misjudged him as a customer who was not serious about purchasing. I would probably be offended too if someone judged me without knowing anything about me. 

Rav007,
In hindsight, perhaps you should have confronted him directly, immediately after the incident? I'm not saying that its okay for a vendor to be rude. Its not. However, he might not have meant to offend anyone. A candid conversation would give him a chance to clarify himself and clear up any misunderstanding. It still not too late to have a candid conversation if he's on this forum. I think you'd feel better if you PM him directly and hash things out. He should know that he offended a potential customer and he should have a chance to explain himself and make things right. You two share similar interests (i.e. torts), so your paths could cross again in the future.


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## gummybearpoop (Nov 16, 2009)

I went to the Phoenix Reptile Show. It was cool to see so many tortoises. I have been going to reptiles shows in Arizona since the early 90s and this one had the most tortoises ever.

Those Aldabras were super nice. The lady at Blue Beast booth answered my questions without any hassle. I was surprised to see so many breeders/sellers let many people handle their tortoises. Personally, I never ask to hold or see an animal better unless I was pretty serious about buying. That's me though. I was tempted to ask more about the Radiated Tortoise, but the $3,500 price tag kept me in line.


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## TylerStewart (Nov 17, 2009)

Interesting, as this is the first time IÃ¢â‚¬â„¢ve heard of this Ã¢â‚¬Å“disappointment.Ã¢â‚¬Â It seems that the majority here already understand our reasoning, but IÃ¢â‚¬â„¢ll give my side of the story, without knowing which customer this was of the thousands that passed our booth this weekend. 

First of all, we would not attempt to determine the financial situation of a potential customer based on appearance (that theory I threw out a long long time ago), and I'm a bigger person than that. 

At a typical show, we are asked about every 3rd minute if someone can Ã¢â‚¬Å“seeÃ¢â‚¬Â or Ã¢â‚¬Å“holdÃ¢â‚¬Â the tortoises. If we said yes to all these requests, we end up with tortoises in kids hands all over the place. We end up with people walking off with them to show their friends. We end up with customers getting peed on and dropping tortoises. We end up with 6 tortoises out around the booth and only 4 eyes to watch them all. We end up with kids from across the room running over to take their turn holding them. Worst of all, we would likely end up with sick tortoises that we donÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t want to be selling. It has gotten to the point that we now just deny the requests unless someone is showing genuine interest in buying. Nobody complains about this (until now), and it makes my life much easier when trying to keep an eye on things at the expo. At the Pasadena show, someone was Ã¢â‚¬Å“holdingÃ¢â‚¬Â a tortoise, and a customer was waiting their turn to see into the enclosure. When selecting their tortoise, they considered every tortoise in there besides the one that was just being held. I canÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t say I blame them either. If I was looking for a tortoise, I would want one coming straight from a breeder with as little handling in the meantime by anyone else. 

We had 12 enclosures mostly full of tortoises with us; probably something like 150 tortoises available there. These were all glass enclosures with screen tops. While I donÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t remember the exact customer this was, I fail to understand how opening the top screen makes the tortoises look any different than they would look through the glass front of the tanks. I also really doubt that we were anything even remotely rude. We were having a blast this weekend at a show with lots of friendly vendors, and there was rarely a time that I didnÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t have a smile on my face. Maybe you were dealing with the grumpy 7 month old baby we had in the playpen there, but I donÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t think my wife or I would Ã¢â‚¬Å“snapÃ¢â‚¬Â at anyone like that. People commonly ask to Ã¢â‚¬Å“seeÃ¢â‚¬Â the tortoises, then when you open the screen they just reach right in and grab. If a request was to Ã¢â‚¬Å“see but not touchÃ¢â‚¬Â the tortoise, we would have no problem moving the screen top. 

I think most would agree that itÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s silly to compare it to buying a car or a non-live item. It is also silly to compare it to other vendors that were allowing people to manhandle their animals, suggesting that I should also. ThatÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s how I try to be better than other vendors; by having solid healthy animals that havenÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t been freely handled. 

I'm sorry if one of us startled you with too quick of an answer, but with the animal's best interests being a top priority, there's no easy way to make everyone happy.


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## Yvonne G (Nov 17, 2009)

TylerStewart said:


> I'm sorry if one of us startled you with too quick of an answer,



I retired from the phone company and the first thing I learned during my initial training was the customer is always right and an apology goes a long way towards good customer care. They drummed this into us almost every day that I was an operator. I'm Sorry...I'm Sorry!!!

That's not something today's employees are taught or practice, and its refreshing to see you apologize, even though you knew you did nothing wrong.

Be the bigger person!


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## Tim/Robin (Nov 17, 2009)

emysemys said:


> TylerStewart said:
> 
> 
> > I'm sorry if one of us startled you with too quick of an answer,
> ...



Amen!! I would not hesitate to do business with Tyler.


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## Meg90 (Nov 17, 2009)

I think its funny how Tyler gave the exact answer most of us had surmised!

Tort people are all pretty like minded I am noticing.

Bottom line is, don't touch unless you are familiar with buying. At the last show I was at, a mother asked to hold a small sulcata. The vendor let her. She then proceeded to hand the baby over to her small child, probably SIX tops. Now, I am betting that the vendor wasn't counting on a small child holding it, but he had already "given permission" so what could he do? Nothing. He was forced to wait until they handed it back.

Don't touch, don't bother the animals unless you want to take one of them home. That's my motto. I held a baby RF because I was seriously considering purchasing it. I also am nursing a want for a Chahoua gecko, but its a 350$ price tag on-up for babies. But did I ask to hold one? NO.

Good job to Tyler for holding on to his principles. You may have "lost" one customer, but I myself, would now be confident in buying from your company in the future now that I know that the animals rank above upset lookyloos.


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## terryo (Nov 17, 2009)

Tim/Robin said:


> emysemys said:
> 
> 
> > TylerStewart said:
> ...



You took the words right out of my mouth.


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## pros81 (Nov 17, 2009)

There's this old Simpson's episode where Bart and Milhouse are in the comic book store and they ask to "see" this issue of "Radioactive Man," but the Comic Book Guy refuses because he doesn't want their "dirty" fingerprints all over the "limited edition" issue.

It may be discriminating against a potential buyer, but when it comes to valuable inventory, I say it's acceptable business practice.

On a completely unrelated note, I got a Cherryhead from Tyler and the little guy is doing great!


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## Candy (Nov 17, 2009)

Rav007, since it was so hard to see Tylers Aldabras through the screen at the Arizona Expo maybe you can go to this thread and view them better. They're under picture 10 and they look beautiful to me. I actually could see them quite nicely in the picture. Phoenix Reptile Show. Gummybearpoop has posted some pictures from the Expo. Hope this helps.


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## Stephanie Logan (Nov 18, 2009)

Hey, Candy, where's the link? I want to see the Aldabrans!


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## Meg90 (Nov 18, 2009)

http://tortoiseforum.org/thread-10516.html


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## Candy (Nov 18, 2009)

Meg90 said:


> http://tortoiseforum.org/thread-10516.html



Meg, how do you do that? I tried to post it like that, but could not figure out how.


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## Meg90 (Nov 18, 2009)

Just went to that thread, copied the link from the address bar, then went to this thread, pasted and voila!


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## Kadaan (Nov 18, 2009)

I've got a few of Tyler's Aldabras as well 

2 from the Pasadena show:






2 from the Anaheim NARBC show:







(if you click on the image and click on the "All Sizes" button above the photo, you can see MUCH larger versions of them, 'large' and 'original')


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## Meg90 (Nov 18, 2009)

Oh my goodness....pssh. 

THANK YOU for posting pictures of the offending screen, Kadaan. You can see them just fine through both the screen, and the grass.

Shame on this person saying Tyler is a bad business man! I mean LOOK at those setups for the show! I have seen little torts either on alfalfa pellets, or on fir chips at shows. He obviously cares very much about his animals.

Each species at Blue Beast's table has a tailored setup...The RFs on eco, and the aldabras on nice fresh turf.

The more I read in this thread, the more confident and comfortable I would be purchasing from them in the future!


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## Stephanie Logan (Nov 18, 2009)

Wow. They look so calm and composed.

I wonder if they are less rambunctious than sulcatas, as adults?

Are there any movies/documentaries that show these large tortoises in action? I'd love to see that.


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## dmmj (Nov 18, 2009)

I hate to say it but I can see them clearly even on a computer screen. Of course i would love to pick one up and handle it, but I also know that it can be stressful to the tort.


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## rav007 (Nov 25, 2009)

rav007 said:


> I'm glad you can all see them "Clearly" on your pc's. To be honest, this whole conversation has really changed my opinion about the "reptile world". Thank you all for opening my eye's to what is really important, $$$$$$$$$$. And to anyone who tries to tell me "its for the best interest of the animal, blah blah" Im sure that Poor little tortoise is soo fragile that anyone even handling it would surly send it into shock, perhaps anaphylactic shock from a one in a million allergy from my breath, thank you for saving me from buying something that is SOO Fragile it will DIE if you mearly STARE at it too hard. I mean, you have all said that merely touching it will kill it. All the poor sulcatas... they never had a chance.... didn't you hear? on the news, later there was a pandemic outbreak of biblical proportions that wiped out all sulcatas within a 5 mile radius, thank *god* no one touched the aldabra. Clearly I have no idea what I am doing, since I dont have to post on here the same question OVER AND OVER "help, what temp's should my hot spot be at? how do i measure the temp?" EXCUSE ME if i know how to read. EXCUSE ME if i do my research BEFORE i get my animals. Forgive me for googling the basics. Your right, i dont know anything, i have 3 torts (one of those oh so fragile sulcatas i mentioned above, and redfoots), i have monitors, tegu's, ,uromastyx, bearded dragons, ball pythons, and ferrets. i have over 150 breeding rats, i hand build all my cages (even humidity systems!), i have over over 7 mega rays in operation, hand build all of my cages and rat racks, did i mentioned my backyard is landscaped to cater to my torts? Did i mention, im 25, own my own house, and no my "Daddy/Mommy" didn't help me do a damn thing. I have 3 rooms dedicated in my house to my animals... you right... i guess because i dont put that into my "signature" that means i don't know a damn thing. you _all_ missed my point. please save your replies.. I really don't care.
> 
> -Rav007 out.


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## dmmj (Nov 25, 2009)

I think someone is upset.


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## Shelly (Nov 25, 2009)

rav007 said:


> I'm glad you can all see them "Clearly" on your pc's. To be honest, this whole conversation has really changed my opinion about the "reptile world". Thank you all for opening my eye's to what is really important, $$$$$$$$$$. And to anyone who tries to tell me "its for the best interest of the animal, blah blah" Im sure that Poor little tortoise is soo fragile that anyone even handling it would surly send it into shock, perhaps anaphylactic shock from a one in a million allergy from my breath, thank you for saving me from buying something that is SOO Fragile it will DIE if you mearly STARE at it too hard. I mean, you have all said that merely touching it will kill it. All the poor sulcatas... they never had a chance.... didn't you hear? on the news, later there was a pandemic outbreak of biblical proportions that wiped out all sulcatas within a 5 mile radius, thank *god* no one touched the aldabra. Clearly I have no idea what I am doing, since I dont have to post on here the same question OVER AND OVER "help, what temp's should my hot spot be at? how do i measure the temp?" EXCUSE ME if i know how to read. EXCUSE ME if i do my research BEFORE i get my animals. Forgive me for googling the basics. Your right, i dont know anything, i have 3 torts (one of those oh so fragile sulcatas i mentioned above, and redfoots), i have monitors, tegu's, ,uromastyx, bearded dragons, ball pythons, and ferrets. i have over 150 breeding rats, i hand build all my cages (even humidity systems!), i have over over 7 mega rays in operation, hand build all of my cages and rat racks, did i mentioned my backyard is landscaped to cater to my torts? Did i mention, im 25, own my own house, and no my "Daddy/Mommy" didn't help me do a damn thing. I have 3 rooms dedicated in my house to my animals... you right... i guess because i dont put that into my "signature" that means i don't know a damn thing. you _all_ missed my point. please save your replies.. I really don't care.
> 
> -Rav007 out.


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## Candy (Nov 25, 2009)

You know this whole thing could have been avoided if you had just stuck up for yourself at the time (instead of now) and told Tyler that you were serious. That he looks down on me and doesn't think that I can afford it doesn't cut it. If you were serious I think you would have told him that.


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