# "Almost always female?"



## Mogavero1 (Aug 9, 2018)

I heard this through the grape vine and wanted to see what other members thought or have experience. I was informed that "extra scutes almost always means female."... 

Thoughts?


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## wellington (Aug 9, 2018)

It is still not a sure sign but there seems to be a slightly better chance at it being female then male. I wouldn't say almost always though. Not from what has been seen.


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## Mogavero1 (Aug 9, 2018)

wellington said:


> It is still not a sure sign but there seems to be a slightly better chance at it being female then male. I wouldn't say almost always though. Not from what has been seen.


I am not really of fan of the term "always" with any type of animal. I work in the Veterinary field and just found this statement odd. Thanks for your response. I appreciate it![/QUOTE]


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## Yvonne G (Aug 9, 2018)

I love the aberrant scutes, and I have several tortoises with them - all male!!!


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## Millerlite (Aug 9, 2018)

Think its more myth than truth. The whole temp sex thing comes into play. extra scutes are or still is believed to be caused from high incubating temperatures. Higher temprature incubation produces females if your "temp sexing" them. Think this is where and why extra scutes = females. Clearly though its not true, if Yvonne has all males w/ extra scutes. 

Kyle


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## Tom (Aug 9, 2018)

Depends on the species and circumstances. Outside of South African leopard tortoises, it is generally true that split scuted individuals are female, but there are exceptions. I had a split scuted male SA leopard. I also have an aberrant scuted female. Most of the split scuted sulcatas I've seen have been female. I haven't seen an exception to that yet, but there might be some out there in the world.

@Yvonne G , what species are your split scuted males?


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## Yvonne G (Aug 10, 2018)

My SA leopard, BenAwes has aberrant scutes and I have seen his "equipment." I have a male CDT with extra scutes. There is a young Manouria that is looking male. Also a young YF.


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## Markw84 (Aug 10, 2018)

One of my male Burmese Star has aberrant scutes - 4 vertebrals instead of 5. Also have had a few sulcatas over the years that were male with extra scutes.


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## teresaf (Aug 10, 2018)

My Female...now I'm curious as to how many split and aberrant schutes you guys had/have that are female vs male ones?


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## ALDABRAMAN (Aug 10, 2018)

Mogavero1 said:


> I heard this through the grape vine and wanted to see what other members thought or have experience. I was informed that "extra scutes almost always means female."...
> 
> Thoughts?



~ No


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## Carol S (Aug 10, 2018)

I have had two with a split scute which turned out to be males. I now have a 1 year old with a split scute, but it is still too young to tell the sex. I am hoping it turns out to be female.


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## galapagosgirl1 (Aug 10, 2018)

Millerlite said:


> Think its more myth than truth. The whole temp sex thing comes into play. extra scutes are or still is believed to be caused from high incubating temperatures. Higher temprature incubation produces females if your "temp sexing" them. Think this is where and why extra scutes = females. Clearly though its not true, if Yvonne has all males w/ extra scutes.
> 
> Kyle


I recently hatched 3 Galapagos Tortoises, 1 has an extra scute, the other 2 do not. All incubated at the same temperature.


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## no one (Aug 12, 2018)

I love the extra scutes, just like Yvonne does. My Turt has them, but is only one year old. So don't know his sex yet. Turt is my Elongata.

I saw a baby Indian Star Tortoise a few weeks ago with extra scutes. Gorgeous!! Hadn't seen it with a Star Tortoise before. Not even in pictures. If I could have, I would have bought him. But wel...


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## DesertGirl (Aug 15, 2018)

How do you ID “extra” scutes? Different # side to side?


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## Markw84 (Aug 15, 2018)

DesertGirl said:


> How do you ID “extra” scutes? Different # side to side?


Tortoises normally have 5 vertebral scutes (down the middle of the carapace) and 4 costal scutes on each side of the vertebrals. Any more or less than this is considered abnormal or aberrant scute patterns. They also have 11 or 12 marginals, a nuchal front middle in some species and a supracaudal middle rear (sometimes divided in some species). However, it is the vertebral and costal count that normally determines "abnormal".


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## Cowboy_Ken (Aug 15, 2018)

Here’s a fun map for y’all to save on your phone;


I use it as a fast reference guide.


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## DesertGirl (Aug 15, 2018)

Markw84 said:


> Tortoises normally have 5 vertebral scutes (down the middle of the carapace) and 4 costal scutes on each side of the vertebrals. Any more or less than this is considered abnormal or aberrant scute patterns. They also have 11 or 12 marginals, a nuchal front middle in some species and a supracaudal middle rear (sometimes divided in some species). However, it is the vertebral and costal count that normally determines "abnormal".


Thank you for that great info.


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