# Pyramiding and mating



## GeoTerraTestudo (Jun 20, 2011)

Do tortoises with pyramiding have difficulty mating? I'm wondering if a bumpy carapace on a female makes mounting harder for the male (whose plastron in most species is concave to accommodate the round carapace). I also wonder if a male with a bumpy carapace might have more trouble maintaining his balance.


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## Tom (Jun 20, 2011)

I have heard that in extreme cases it can, but I have not experienced this personally. I think you have also heard this and are looking for someone with a specific, verifiable example. I'll ask around.


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## GeoTerraTestudo (Jun 20, 2011)

Tom said:


> I have heard that in extreme cases it can, but I have not experienced this personally. I think you have also heard this and are looking for someone with a specific, verifiable example. I'll ask around.



Actually, I have never heard anything one way or the other. It's just that, mating looks challenging enough for tortoises as it is, so looking at some of these extreme cases of pyramiding, I just wonder if that "tips them over the edge," and renders them incapable of mating at all. If so, then that would be yet another reason for people to keep their torties' shells looking smooth and natural.


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## Neal (Jun 20, 2011)

I have, what I consider, a severely pyramided female leopard. She and one of my males are at it at least 3 times a day for about 10 minutes each time. The pyramiding never seems to be a problem, and the breeding has been successful too. 

In my opinion, pyramiding doesn't make things more or less difficult if you have adults that are approximatley the same size or reasonable compatable in size. The males will balance themselves using their front legs, and will usually hang on tight while the female moves around. 

I'll try to remember to post some pictures later.


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## Terry Allan Hall (Jun 20, 2011)

GeoTerraTestudo said:


> Do tortoises with pyramiding have difficulty mating? I'm wondering if a bumpy carapace on a female makes mounting harder for the male (whose plastron in most species is concave to accommodate the round carapace). I also wonder if a male with a bumpy carapace might have more trouble maintaining his balance.



I agree that, unless it's a severe pyramiding case, there would be no problem...love/biological urges will find a way!


Neal said:


> I have, what I consider, a severely pyramided female leopard. She and one of my males are at it at least 3 times a day for about 10 minutes each time. The pyramiding never seems to be a problem, and the breeding has been successful too.
> 
> In my opinion, pyramiding doesn't make things more or less difficult if you have adults that are approximatley the same size or reasonable compatable in size. The males will balance themselves using their front legs, and will usually hang on tight while the female moves around.
> 
> *I'll try to remember to post some pictures later.*



Great...tort-porn!


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## dmarcus (Jun 20, 2011)

It always amazes me how much stuff there is to learn, here I figured that mating would be an issue with a pyramided carapace, but it seems they find a way to handle business.


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## dmmj (Jun 20, 2011)

doesn't jackrat own "knobby" the pyramided RF an he produces babies for him, I would imagine if it was an extreme case it would affect the mating process.


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## Eweezyfosheezy (Jun 20, 2011)

Pyramiding in males really does not affect breeding that I have seen but I have seen females that I would consider non breedable with severe pyramiding.


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## Neal (Jun 22, 2011)

Sorry it's a few days late, but here are pictures of my breeding female. I didn't have the chance to get pictures of them mating, but she has laid viable eggs.












Her pyramiding is pretty bad. I don't think pyramiding in and of itself doesn't prohibit mating, but maybe when the tortoise also has MDB it's shell might become deformed in such a way that would prevent breeding.


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## Geochelone_Carbonaria (Jul 4, 2011)

My RF's certainly doesn't have any problems. I have one female with quite large pyramides, and my males just use them as "love handles", and this have the advantage that they don't fall off that easy


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## dmmj (Jul 4, 2011)

Now see with neal's leo if you asked me I would say she would never be able to mate, but where there is a will there is a way I guess, congrats on the eggs.


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## onarock (Jul 5, 2011)

A male tortoise's Drive to breed can overcome just about anything. Besides, have you ever seen a male tortoise's penis? They can get the job done from just about anywhere.


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## Stephanie Logan (Jul 5, 2011)

I read in an internet article when I was researching Chaco tortoises that females with severe pyramiding/MBD should not be bred as the eggs can get stuck and kill them. I'll find that article and post the link. I know I would never risk Taco's health or life by breeding her. She is destined to be an Old Maid, so that she can be old.
http://www.chelonia.org/articles/Gchilensiscare.htm


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## Candy (Jul 5, 2011)

onarock said:


> A male tortoise's Drive to breed can overcome just about anything. Besides, have you ever seen a male tortoise's penis? They can get the job done from just about anywhere.



What do you mean Tortoises Drive, don't you mean the Male's Drive?   Can't comment on the penis thing though, o.k. yes I can. Wow I have seen Dale's and you're right, there's no surprise when it comes to reaching things. 

Stephanie that's something that I've never thought about, thanks.  I wouldn't take the chance with your tortoise either, she's so cute.


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## GeoTerraTestudo (Jul 19, 2011)

What happens if they get flipped over? Does a tortoise with pronounced pyramiding have an easier or more difficult time righting itself if it gets flipped onto its back?


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## Geochelone_Carbonaria (Jul 19, 2011)

GeoTerraTestudo said:


> What happens if they get flipped over? Does a tortoise with pronounced pyramiding have an easier or more difficult time righting itself if it gets flipped onto its back?



One of my males certainly has got difficulties to get back on his feet when he flippes over, since he has got multiple split scutes and a very non symmetric carapace that you could say more or less is equal to severe pyramiding.


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