# Not sure what to do about squirrel that’s moved in near my desert tortoise.



## JohnnyB65 (Jun 19, 2016)

I wasn’t sure what it was at first, but something has been eating my desert tortoise’s food and drinking its water. I now know for sure that it’s a ground squirrel after seeing it on numerous occasions. It’s been pretty hot and dry for a while and about the only source for water is the tortoise’s water dish.

I don’t know what exactly squirrels eat, but there are plenty of pine cones around and I’m not sure how much of my tortoise’s food it’s been consuming. The problem is that my tortoise is so finicky about food that I’m worried if he’s eating enough.

My oldest daughter is moving in for a while to help me around the house and she wants to have a pest control service come in to rid the place of the black widow spiders. She said they will also take the squirrel if I ask, but I’m not fond of killing animals.

What do you think, should I ask them to take care of the squirrel or just let it be?


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## dmmj (Jun 19, 2016)

I would exterminate the squirrel with extreme prejudice. You have to decide which animal is more important the squirrel or your tortoise once you answer that you will know what to do


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## Rue (Jun 19, 2016)

I just went to a place yesterday that had a "pet" Richardson ' s Ground Squirrel. Too cute. As long as it isn't causing an issue I would be inclined to let it be.

But ultimately it's up to you.


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## Pearly (Jun 20, 2016)

dmmj said:


> I would exterminate the squirrel with extreme prejudice. You have to decide which animal is more important the squirrel or your tortoise once you answer that you will know what to do


Exterminate???? Why???? I love squirrels!!! They live all over my subdivision including my backyard. Will they harm a tortoise???


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## dmmj (Jun 20, 2016)

Pearly said:


> Exterminate???? Why???? I love squirrels!!! They live all over my subdivision including my backyard. Will they harm a tortoise???


They can harm a tortoise. it's frequently goes into the tortoises habitat I would not trust it for a second and get rid of it as soon as possible as quickly as possible and as painlessly as possible but get rid of it none the less.you just have to decide which animal is more important to you they're wild animals so you know


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## Pearly (Jun 20, 2016)

Well, I guess I'll be facing a big problem here bcs there are TONS of them all over here. Even if I got rid of mine (which I couldn't) they are all over the neighborhood. Our subdivision was built on a patch of wooded hills, around a big public golfcourse. There are tons of wildlife here. I guess I'll have to figure things out as I go. Maybe cage in the tort enclosure (which I have not had plans on doing)... Thank for bringing that up though. It's better to be aware of potential issues


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## Yvonne G (Jun 20, 2016)

Hi JohnnyB65:

I'm pretty sure that ground squirrels live in colonies, so your one squirrel is probably a whole family of them. 

I would not be happy if a wild creature was coming in and eating my tortoise's food, especially if the tortoise is a picky or slow eater. Squirrels and tortoises live in the same general area, and I've heard that wild tortoises share squirrel burrows.

If you don't want the squirrel coming into your tortoise yard, you'll either have to get rid of it or figure out a way to keep him out...hot wire? fencing? trap? But remember, he's not alone.


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## wellington (Jun 20, 2016)

If food is available, most likely they would not bother your tortoise. I would buy an owl statue, this may scare the squirrel away. You could also give it a different water source and put out bird seed for the birds and hopefully the squirrel will find that to be better then the tort food.
My bigger concern is having an exterminator coming out. Is this just for inside the house? If it's for out side, I would make sure there is no over spray going into the torts area


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## JohnnyB65 (Jun 20, 2016)

Well as Pearly and Yvonne mentioned there most likely are more of them. I talked to a neighbor that said she has a few of them at her house as well and they probably are all over the neighborhood. I guess another squirrel will take its place if it’s exterminated and I don’t really want to build a cage because I have enough of a problem with fences.

My tortoise is pretty large and I don’t believe the squirrel is a threat to him except maybe when he’s hibernating, but I usually cover the entrance to its burrow during the winter months.

The exterminator is going to be dealing with the outside of the house only for the huge number of black widow spiders around here. They don't bother me so much but they scare everybody that comes over. I don't want the exterminator anywhere near the burrow but when the tortoise comes out in the morning he always has webs all over him and I have pull them off around his head.


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## Kapidolo Farms (Jun 20, 2016)

This is a quirky thing to deal with. I too have squirrels raiding the tortoise food as well, the bird feeders and just generally running around in the back yard. I live with a small utility corridor canyon along the back fence. When I first moved in even people who walk dogs along the canyon (without a leash) would loose a dog into our backyard.

Then tortoises were here some changes needed to be made. I dog proofed the fence, and sealed holes so that even larger rabbits couldn't squeeze through. Squirrels can get through chain link, well so can small rabbits for that matter. 

When I put up a wood fence for the tortoise yard, I didn't consider the squirrels (and they are ground squirrels) but they didn't seem to figure out how to jump the fence or even climb the pole to the bird feeder. They still don't seem to know how to do either. They squeeze through cracks in the wood fence. They come and eat some tortoise food once in awhile, but are very wary of the tortoises.

Tamara has sounded alarm with the squirrels and she worries they could decide to do something to the tortoises. The tortoises are all 50 pounds plus, and frankly I think the squirrels avoid them out of common sense. Slow and lumbering as they are, the tortoises will eat a squirrel or rabbit if they catch it.

If your 'tortoise' is a box turtle or small Testudo, I can see being worried, but if a larger Cal Desert or sulcata, now worries IMO. I know there are video's of squirrels attacking gopher snakes and the like, but that is just not the same thing. A fox, a coyote, or raccoon, etc I'd be really worried, but not for a squirrel.

As for food competition. well put more food out.


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## ascott (Jun 22, 2016)

JohnnyB65 said:


> Well as Pearly and Yvonne mentioned there most likely are more of them. I talked to a neighbor that said she has a few of them at her house as well and they probably are all over the neighborhood. I guess another squirrel will take its place if it’s exterminated and I don’t really want to build a cage because I have enough of a problem with fences.
> 
> My tortoise is pretty large and I don’t believe the squirrel is a threat to him except maybe when he’s hibernating, but I usually cover the entrance to its burrow during the winter months.
> 
> The exterminator is going to be dealing with the outside of the house only for the huge number of black widow spiders around here. They don't bother me so much but they scare everybody that comes over. I don't want the exterminator anywhere near the burrow but when the tortoise comes out in the morning he always has webs all over him and I have pull them off around his head.




Well, here in the high desert, on our property....I have the four male CDTs in their own individual yards all year round, sometimes a couple of them will even beat me into their burrow for the winter....the only thing that ever created a problem here were gophers, because they would back fill the entrance of the burrow entrance which would create a tunnel in unknown locations which could allow water to fill a burrow without any sign....as well as block the entrance in the event a tortoise attempts to exit for what ever reason.....the squirrels do come in to the water spots I have set up around the property....rarely do they go after the food supplements I offer the tortoise.....well, not that I know of anyways....all the tortoise seem plump, happy, heavy and not pissed, so I am guessing they are getting the bulk of the offerings....I personally do not worry about the squirrels....I would not kill them....however, I would have a problem with them living under any human structure and would annoy them until gone as their homes can and do cause structural damage to our homes.....but only if they are undermining a structure....here, there is open desert all around and they live their and that works....there are rabbit, snakes (also, snakes love to share the burrows with the torts), lizards, birds and a variety of other critters that share our property and surrounding desert...without ill affect.....

Black widows, I really do not like them....did I say REALLY don't....I have now as of a week ago been bitten twice...ugh, but outside of the swollen bite spot and the duty of brushing it off whilst in attack mode....I was alright this time....the first time I had a bum arm/elbow for a couple of months....I figure this time my body remembered what it was????don't know....so, the best way I have found to rid the living areas of them is with a can of adhesive/hair spray a flat flip flop (preferably a mans size 12 or larger...more distance is more better) or a super flat piece of 2 x4... wait for night, turn off all of the outdoor lights....then after awhile have your tools in hand, turn on the light and go out around the edges of house and roof line...when you spot one, spray then scream then quickly smash and slide the board or flippy...then quickly move on and get as many as possible ...then repeat...after doing this for a couple of weeks the population is reduced greatly....after all, we live in California...the land of the Black Widow....there is no way to rid entirely....

Also, two of the CDTs here come out each day with a black widow web curtain on their shell....they don't seem to mind, either they work it off or I lift it off when I check on them at supplemental food offering time....


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## JohnnyB65 (Jul 2, 2016)

This is weird! I just happened to log into my last session and noticed my last post never recorded. I replied to Ascott's post the same day she posted, but I don't see it. I can't remember what I posted now so I guess I'll just pass.


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## Pearly (Jul 3, 2016)

ascott said:


> Well, here in the high desert, on our property....I have the four male CDTs in their own individual yards all year round, sometimes a couple of them will even beat me into their burrow for the winter....the only thing that ever created a problem here were gophers, because they would back fill the entrance of the burrow entrance which would create a tunnel in unknown locations which could allow water to fill a burrow without any sign....as well as block the entrance in the event a tortoise attempts to exit for what ever reason.....the squirrels do come in to the water spots I have set up around the property....rarely do they go after the food supplements I offer the tortoise.....well, not that I know of anyways....all the tortoise seem plump, happy, heavy and not pissed, so I am guessing they are getting the bulk of the offerings....I personally do not worry about the squirrels....I would not kill them....however, I would have a problem with them living under any human structure and would annoy them until gone as their homes can and do cause structural damage to our homes.....but only if they are undermining a structure....here, there is open desert all around and they live their and that works....there are rabbit, snakes (also, snakes love to share the burrows with the torts), lizards, birds and a variety of other critters that share our property and surrounding desert...without ill affect.....
> 
> Black widows, I really do not like them....did I say REALLY don't....I have now as of a week ago been bitten twice...ugh, but outside of the swollen bite spot and the duty of brushing it off whilst in attack mode....I was alright this time....the first time I had a bum arm/elbow for a couple of months....I figure this time my body remembered what it was????don't know....so, the best way I have found to rid the living areas of them is with a can of adhesive/hair spray a flat flip flop (preferably a mans size 12 or larger...more distance is more better) or a super flat piece of 2 x4... wait for night, turn off all of the outdoor lights....then after awhile have your tools in hand, turn on the light and go out around the edges of house and roof line...when you spot one, spray then scream then quickly smash and slide the board or flippy...then quickly move on and get as many as possible ...then repeat...after doing this for a couple of weeks the population is reduced greatly....after all, we live in California...the land of the Black Widow....there is no way to rid entirely....
> 
> Also, two of the CDTs here come out each day with a black widow web curtain on their shell....they don't seem to mind, either they work it off or I lift it off when I check on them at supplemental food offering time....


Love your black widow population reduction method. I can just see myself armed with husband's flipflop and can of spray running around and screeming in terror/excitement. I think you should put it on youtube. That'd be hilarious!


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## surfergirl (Jul 3, 2016)

I have two garage/outdoor cats- rescues people just dropped off, that keep my rodents away from the yard & house.  the cats show no interest in my adult torts and the only babe tort I have stays in a wired pen protected by them to. I have some moles they have been working on lately. every once in a while they get one of my lizards, good snakes, birds but mostly they help us avoid overpopulation of rodents, including squirrels of all kind. the problem with an exterminator is that they can only handle the current issue, my cats are a permanent exterminator at work. I am not even what you would consider a cat person either but they earn their keep around here. if you do not have issues with cats, or the coyotes are not too bad, sounds like one of them could eliminate this issue for you.


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## JohnnyB65 (Jul 3, 2016)

surfergirl said:


> I have two garage/outdoor cats- rescues people just dropped off, that keep my rodents away from the yard & house.  the cats show no interest in my adult torts and the only babe tort I have stays in a wired pen protected by them to. I have some moles they have been working on lately. every once in a while they get one of my lizards, good snakes, birds but mostly they help us avoid overpopulation of rodents, including squirrels of all kind. the problem with an exterminator is that they can only handle the current issue, my cats are a permanent exterminator at work. I am not even what you would consider a cat person either but they earn their keep around here. if you do not have issues with cats, or the coyotes are not too bad, sounds like one of them could eliminate this issue for you.



We used to have a lot of feral cats around here that really helped keep the rodent population down, but we also had a fanatic decorative gardener who just could not handle the cats pooping in her flower bed. She finally went berserk and started setting poison out for the rodents, but the cat population dwindled down to nothing and the rodent’s multiplied into a near epidemic.

Roof rats started showing up when we never had rats before. I worried about them harming my tort and would fill in the entrance to its burrow with dirt during hibernation to keep them out. They destroyed my favorite apricot tree which I had to remove to keep them from coming into my yard. I feared they would eventually find their way into my house. It took a whole neighborhood effort to finally get rid of them and i was so thankful that they never made it inside.


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## ZEROPILOT (Jul 3, 2016)

I trap and kill rats on a weekly basis. 
Squirrels have not been a serious issue with my home or my animals.
They are similar animals, but with different habits.


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## majxmom (Jul 30, 2016)

I'm out in the country so I have a squirrel problem. Rats must be a tad slower because the dogs seem to kill any rats that come around. I was concerned for Barstow that the ground squirrels might gnaw on him like I have heard rats might do. We built Barstow a nice underground burrow, and about a year later, I started to notice that when I stepped outside with the dogs and the squirrels all ran for it, several of them seemed to disappear very near the burrow. We had to renovate the burrow because the retaining walls seemed to have settled and Barstow was having a clearance problem. When we dug all of the dirt off of the top, I was horrified to see that the squirrels had basically moved in. They had made a tunnel completely around the outside perimeter of the retaining wall blocks. Then because we had the blocks set on edge, they had tunneled through the holes in the blocks and had several exits and entrances into the burrow. They had even tunneled up from below, and were kicking the loose displaced dirt from their tunnels over Barstow as he was sitting in there. The only thing I can say is that I was relieved that none of them seemed to be gnawing on him while he was in there. But I doubt he was happy to be cohabiting. So we turned all of the bricks sideways so a solid wall faced the interior instead of the holes. Then I double stacked them for clearance. I bought a large piece of slate for the bottom so there would be no tunneling up. The slate might be cold in winter so I covered it with this board of dense styrofoam that was sold as a layer for pavers to be installed on levelly. We replaced the inch-thick plywood ceiling and mounded the dirt back over it. That seemed to discourage them and I haven't seen any near him since. But they were obviously living in there with him. I suppose if they were a risk to him, it would have happened by now, but I wouldn't have wanted to put it to the test during the lean times of winter.


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## JohnnyB65 (Jul 30, 2016)

I’ve built my DT a few burrows over the years and before I even knew of the dangers of other animals chewing on them, I was more concerned about the tortoise digging his way out of the yard. I always designed the burrows so he could not dig out which included the floors and walls. The last build was designed with a 55 gal plastic drum laid on its side with dirt on the bottom to make it flat and I used a 2ft dia x 6 ft long drain pipe for the tunnel down to the barrel so the only way in or out is out the drain pipe.







My squirrels live under a shed behind the burrow which has 2 entry points right now. One is right in the back of the tortoise’s compound and the other is behind the shed where the dogs can get them. The dogs are fenced off from the tortoise compound so the squirrels only come out the back while the dogs are sleeping on the other side of the house. I usually know when the squirrels are in the compound because the dogs go nuts when they see them.


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