# Daisy's New Enclosure



## Tom

This is a very hot, sunny part of the ranch. Great in the winter, but darn hot in the summer. I wanted to give her all the benefits of a burrow, but without all the substantial risks. Here is what I see as potentially dangerous with "natural" burrows: They can flood or collapse. They are too cold most of the year here. And once a sulcata is down a burrow, even a few feet, there is no access to them. However, the benefits of a burrow are substantial. Very stable temps all year. Good humidity. Simulates what they would do in nature and, this is just a guess, I'm certain that they "like" the security of being underground. So I set out to design and build something that would give me the benefits of a burrow, but none of the risks. This one is my third attempt. The first was a small in ground, but level with the surface, prototype that has been in use for about a year now. The second is in my Tegu cage and it is working better than I could have ever hoped for. Since the Tegu hibernates and prefers cooler underground temps, I used no electricity or heat of any kind in Clyde's burrow. I wanted the ability to control the temp in this burrow and the pics will show the result.

This is the "Before" shot.






Here are my friends Gus and Cory "breaking ground" for me.





Getting closer.





Here's the box.





The Hole.





The electrical stuff. I've got an outlet, so I can change things around or add an "appliance" if I need to. I've got a thermostat. And I've got a 60 watt, 20 year old, Pearlco in a ceramic fixture. The lamp fixture is mounted with bailing wire to those metal strips and there is an 18x24" metal heat shield on the wooden roof above the fixture.





Here's the box with 8' tunnel attached and partially buried.





Top in place now.





Here's me inside making sure the silicon is all good inside. I sealed the whole box and every joint with silicone. 





This is a tortoise eye view, looking down the tunnel.





This one show's the total depth of the box. I'm standing on the ground here.





Here's another wide shot of the whole thing coming together.





This one shows the above ground chamber/rain cover in place before burying. It also shows the "shade table" I built to cover her water pan. This area is in full sun from sun up 'til sun down.





Here's what the inside of the cover looks like.





Finally finished.





Wide view.





Other side.





Daisy partaking.





I let it sit there unplugged for a couple of days and the temp stabilized at 72. I decided to bump it up just a little to 75. I have an electrical appliance meter inline that measures how much electricity is used. After three weeks of maintaining a temp of 75 in a 4x4x2' underground box, I've spent a whopping .42 cents. And that's on CA's ridiculously high rates. The temp is completely stable down there. We've had nights in the low 40's and days over 100 and it just stays 75 ALL of the time. Humidity is stable at 71%, but that is easy to increase, if I wanted to.

Now I just need to find some sort of plants that won't fry in that spot to give some shade and make it look a little nicer.

Daisy took a couple of weeks to learn to go down the hole every night, but she's got it now. I had to put her in there and block the entrance every night for two weeks.

So collapse, flood and cold are all fixed, and through my portal, I have access to her anytime I need it. At the same time, she gets warm winter nights, cool summer days, and I don't have to carry her in and out every day. Hope y'all like it.


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## dmmj

Looks nice but are you concerned about daisy knocking over the brick walls, it does not look like it is cemented or anything like that.


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## Tom

Not in the least. My adults don't do it and at her size, she CAN'T do it.


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## ascott

Very nice Tom.....The tunnel is perfect length/width/depth...awesome.

Tom, I have one thing that I am going to throw out there simply as a friendly sharing, given from my past experience in building these types of structures.

I use to work at a park/wildlife area. In that area my prior supervisor had two CDT's (both of which I now host as he has moved out of state) and decided that it would be fun to have them at the park for people to see our state reptile..so we set out to build our first 24/7 habitat for two male tortoises (as one was obviously the leader and the other one really did not care--so we thought, later is when I realized what bullies they can be without ever a sign to the human eye, but that's another thread)

so the two of us dug down 5 feet below ground level and dug out about 4 foot wide by 3 feet front to back and a tunnel that ran the length of about 5 feet right into the "sleeping quarters" then we shored up all of the earthen walls with 6x6x4 posts narrowing the entrance to the same width as the tunnel which was approx 2 feet wide..then once all sleeping quarters and tunnel walls were shored up we then layed 3/4 plywood (untreated as it is illegal to build or put in contact with CDT any treated wood) across the sleeping quarters then a layer of 1/4 " aluminum sheets to assure water would not rot through the wood then over the aluminum another 3/4 plywood as well as the same all the way up the tunnel ceiling...then we proceeded to bring in all dug out dirt and cover the entire structure....well it held up well...now this entire structure was located in what later we realized was a higher mix of sand than viable soil, which helped to keep the rodents out( but the older tortoise ended up impacted again another thread, wait..I think I already shared that story)

Now, when I did similar structure at my house ( clay type soil, compacts really well, but gets a little soft when saturated with a week of nonstop rain...the problem that I ran into Tom and the part I am sharing is that I never thought about gophers at my house, that was until the first CDT burrow I made similar to yours (open bottom) was invaded by gophers and they completely backfilled the tortoise out solid...from the inside out.....then the next tortoise that this happen to was done during the end of winter, the gophers filled in the burrow completely around the tortoise while he slept...I mean near solid pack. The worst part of this happening is that unless you know it can happen, unless you can somehow reach the tortoise you would never know it was happening until you get a weird feeling...which is what I got, don't know why but just did...luckily the first time it happened was right after the tortoise came out from winter sleep and the second one it happen to I had to dig him out in the cold and thought I was on a recovery mission vs rescue. The gophers are fast too (as they don't sleep during the winter) I realized that the first burrow to have been back filled had to have happened within 1-2 days...the second time it happened was less than one day --as I checked into his burrow opening every day because of prior experience...and that I believe was the reason I was able to rescue Ghamara was because I looked in on his everyday, rain or shine...so that was my sharing...I am not saying this WILL happen to you but just mention as a heads up....I LOVE YOUR BURROW STRUCTURE, Fancy

The sand while bad aided in the fact that it is not good for digging a burrow that will be sound in structure but is really bad for impaction if ingested.

The clay soil is fantastic in that it can be a great solid structure in the non rainy season. This is why Tom I have decided that since the weather the last two years has brought tremendous rainfall/desert flooding and then freezing temps I will block the entrance to my one guys self dug burrow come sept/oct so he can not get himself in for the winter and I will bring them all in to a winter box....the last two years were extremely harsh of them as well as extremely stressful on me...I am sorry that this was such a long post...really just needed to share this with you...I love the idea of a burrow/ I love the way they know exactly how to construct one but with our weather patterns changing as in the past couple of years I don't want to leave them in their in the winter months...


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## Tom

Thanks for all that info. The soil here is sort of a mix and it changes layer by layer too. Some layers are sandier or rockier than others, but all the layers can hold a burrow. The gophers have been a problem in the past, but I have been VERY proactive this year. At any above ground sign of them the traps come out and so far not a single won has escaped me. I've got about 30 of them in my freezer. My lizards and snakes love them.

My prototype did get a ground squirrel in it last fall (he's in my freezer too), but that's why I build in the access portals on the tops of my enclosures. It is a good cautionary tale and I'll definitely keep an eye out for that problem.

About the sand impaction, I fill the bottoms of these enclosures with coco chips and I feed her off of a plate, except for what she grazes. How were the CDTs ingesting sand? This is a problem I would much rather AVOID than deal with.

Lastly, I too worry about our crazy weather lately. I tried to incorporate ANYTHING that could go wrong weather wise into these enclosures and burrows, but I always have an indoor back up plan, in case Mother Nature outsmarts me yet again.

Thanks for the input. Good stuff.


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## ascott

Awesome recycle program with the snake food  I am all for recycling anywhere it is beneficial....so if you want to come on over and collect more food from my yard....you are invited!!

We have that annoying layering ground as well...really a pain when trying to plant trees/large shrubs...the rate of success is for every 3 I plant I may get one that makes it....

The sand seemed to keep the rodents from burrowing but bad for the tortoises. One of the two males my prior boss had came to him with this small bump on the side of his head (very small) and his eyesight was poor (this tortoise is the one I have posted health updates after abscess removed from side of his head, Humphry)...so unbeknownst to him when Humphry would strike to get his food he was missing and taking in the sand...so combination of his eyesight being poor along with he did not feed on concrete/slate tiles set him up for the sand ingestion then impaction. But I worked it through, so to speak...TONS of soaks (like two a day for 4-5 weeks) and bite by bite (by hand) and daily shell rubs as this seemed to perk him up and seem to cause him to get up and be motivated...he finally stopped pooping sand balls...I mean perfectly round marble sized sand balls. I would walk into my office at the park and start yelling at everyone for tracking in sand (Humphry resided in my office for the entire nursing time..now he is living at my home/yard) then I came into work one day and found a PERFECT tortoise tootsie roll poo..I left that poo in view all day just to show everyone (i am sure I was more thrilled than anyone else)

My reference to the "open bottom" was regarding the gophers...but sounds like you have that in check... I use to blame the squirrels but quickly realized it was these huge gophers (they are biggins here, almost prairie dog size, pests) I was in my yard watching one of my tortoises just walking and grazing, there was a plant that I planted, near my foot, all of a sudden the plant started wiggling, which caught my attention, so as I watched it, it suddenly disappeared straight into the ground, seriously like a cartoon, that dang gopher snatched it from under ground...also did that to a dozen other plants...so now I use alot of seeds to get weeds etc going in the tortoise enclosures to give the buggers a run for their money (or mine?).

Well Tom, your burrow construction looks fantastic and so fancy with the electrical  I am sure Daisy will enjoy it for years to come...great job!


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## Tom

Thanks for the compliments. Here the gophers like to get under a new tree or plant or cactus and build an entire hollow chamber under the root ball, where they sit and eat all of the roots until there are none left, then they move on. I never realized how much damage they do. Now, every time we see a little gopher mound, the traps come out.


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## Jacob

Very Nice, As You Can Tell Alot of Hard Work Went Into It! The Tort Will Love It


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## Jacqui

Tom, every time I see one of your threads on building a sulcata burrow, it comes to mind I should ask if you ever saw the ones another member in here made for his adults. For the life of me, as I sit writing this, I can't recall his name. He is from Iowa and has sulcata, alli snappers, homes hingebacks, and Egyptians. Maybe somebody else can recall his name, before it comes to me at some odd moment. 

Any how, he used big cement culvert type pieces and made it too so he could get down inside the end of the tunnel. He's was very impressive and he did some great pictures showing the work in progress. Just thought I would ask now as I thought about it, if you ever saw his pictures.


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## Tom

That doesn't ring a bell, but I would sure like to see it. I'm trying to figure out how to do this on a much larger scale for the adults. So far cinderblocks seem like the way to go, but I'd love to see some other examples.

Most of what I do is inspired by others who have done something similar. Tyler Stewart is the one who really got me thinking underground with his sprinkler boxes in Vegas. I just built upon that idea.


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## dmmj

In regards to plants are you looking for shade plants or just plants in general? because as you probably know cactus would probably do good there but they don't really provide much shade.


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## Kristina

Jacqui said:


> Tom, every time I see one of your threads on building a sulcata burrow, it comes to mind I should ask if you ever saw the ones another member in here made for his adults. For the life of me, as I sit writing this, I can't recall his name. He is from Iowa and has sulcata, alli snappers, homes hingebacks, and Egyptians. Maybe somebody else can recall his name, before it comes to me at some odd moment.
> 
> Any how, he used big cement culvert type pieces and made it too so he could get down inside the end of the tunnel. He's was very impressive and he did some great pictures showing the work in progress. Just thought I would ask now as I thought about it, if you ever saw his pictures.



Larry? (Itort)


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## Tom

dmmj said:


> In regards to plants are you looking for shade plants or just plants in general? because as you probably know cactus would probably do good there but they don't really provide much shade.



That is a great are to grow cactus. I'll probably put the ones in the pots pictured there on the hill side, but I have to surround them with blocks or wire so she won't eat them. I was thinking of a bush of some sort for down on the open area. I pplan to go ask an "expert" at a local nursery what kind of bush will survive out here in the heat and dryness, in full on scorching sun all day. I might do a free standing grape vine trellis. Shade and food in the summer and no shade in the much cooler winters.


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## dmmj

I saw cory there, is that what happens when people visit you? you put them to work?


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## Tom

dmmj said:


> I saw cory there, is that what happens when people visit you? you put them to work?



Yeah. Wanna come "visit"? I just put a new popper on the end of my whip and I need someone to break it in on.

I need to bury my monitor lizard's box too. Don't worry. I provide the shovels and some bread and water, if you do a good job. Gus and Cory dug a 4x4x3' deep hole in an hour. Gus got a slice of bread for that. Cory got water only for too much talking during the job.


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## coreyc

Awesome job Tom Daisy is going to love it


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## Tom

coreyc said:


> Awesome job Tom Daisy is going to love it



Thanks Corey. Can't wait to see what happens with her growth now.


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## Maggie Cummings

Wow, that is very impressive and the secondary advice is equally impressive...thanks ever so...


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## Yvonne G

Anything you plant will have to be watered pretty good the first year until it gets established, but I was thinking along the lines of a mulberry tree. If you plant it outside the pen, on the west side, you can water it a lot and it wouldn't get too wet at the burrow. Mulberry trees grow very large and provide great shade. My rain forest is shaded mainly by a big mulberry tree.


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## Jacqui

Kristina said:


> Jacqui said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tom, every time I see one of your threads on building a sulcata burrow, it comes to mind I should ask if you ever saw the ones another member in here made for his adults. For the life of me, as I sit writing this, I can't recall his name. He is from Iowa and has sulcata, alli snappers, homes hingebacks, and Egyptians. Maybe somebody else can recall his name, before it comes to me at some odd moment.
> 
> Any how, he used big cement culvert type pieces and made it too so he could get down inside the end of the tunnel. He's was very impressive and he did some great pictures showing the work in progress. Just thought I would ask now as I thought about it, if you ever saw his pictures.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Larry? (Itort)
Click to expand...


Nopers, not him.


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## Smash Rockwell

This looks intense lol.... Nice work hope they like it!


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## tobibaby

hi tom,

i love it, daisy must be so happy  how are you?? how are the new babies?? Tobi needs something like that.. he is big and the greatest tort on this planet I LOVE HIM


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## Miss_Kat

that looks AWESOME! nice work!! Daisy is one lucky tort! 

re plants, what about ice plant? I have started putting that in parts of my yard that get the least amount of water and the most sun (basically where nothing else will grow) and it's been great! its really pretty too







comes in tones of colors too. But I have no idea if the little guy can eat it. I would check that out fist


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## Fernando

Ice plants are fine


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## Tom

Update: I left the bottom of her new underground enclosure open so that she'd get the "benefit" of sleeping on real dirt. Daisy is three and a half years old and I got her at three months old. She has never tried to dig or burrow at all in any pen, indoors or out, ever. She lived in my prototype underground enclosure pen for nearly a year, and never dug at all.

For nearly two weeks she wouldn't even use her underground box on her own. I had to put her in the hole through the access portal and then block the entrance to keep her in it at night. And then one day, after around two weeks, I went to retrieve her from her usual spot at dusk and she wasn't there. A quick search around the pen and no Daisy... Could it be? Yes. I popped the lids and there she was looking up at me. From that day on she has put herself away every night.

Now apparently, 3' deep just isn't quite enough. She dug a small cavity for herself under the bottom of the rim of the box. I pulled her out and filled it back in. The next day, same thing. She wasn't going any deeper, but I was worried so I filled it in again and put a cinder block in that spot. Well she dug under the cinderblock and went back to her same spot in the corner of the back of the underground box. I pulled the cinderblock out and just let her have her spot since she wasn't going any deeper. I checked it everyday for a few days, and she wasn't going any further. She seemed to just want to be snuggled in a bit. So I left her and her little cubby hole alone. I let a week go by and when I checked again, there was a huge pile of dirt in the middle of the floor and a giant hole going down into the ground. She was above ground roaming around at the time so I jumped down into the underground box to see just how deep it was. Now, mind you, we are talking about a single, little, 4 pound, 9" tortoise here... It was soooo deep I couldn't see the end! I reached my arm in there up to my shoulder and couldn't touch the back. I climbed out and went and got a flashlight, so I could see just how far she had tunneled in just a few days. I could only see around 3' as it was curving to the left. I began shoving dirt in there to fill it up, and it took a lot of arm loads of dirt before it filled up enough for me to start packing it in there and feel the back. I would estimate 4 1/2 to 5'.

I have no idea how far she would have gone. I have no idea what the temps would be, that far down and away from the heat source. It had to be around 4-5 feet underground if you count down from the surface. The floor of her underground bunker is at three feet deep and she had dug another foot or two downward. I considered just letting her do it her way, but the fear of what could go wrong (collapse, too cold, inaccessible, etc...) made me decide to not let it go on. Daisy now has hard wood floors in her temperature controlled underground condo. It was not easy retrofitting a floor in four pieces into a hole in the ground, but the operation was a success. I left some gaps between the four plywood pieces that make up her new floor so that the humidity and "earthy" air can still circulate around in there. The gaps are only 1/2 -1" wide, so not enough space for her to dig anymore. I put some cypress mulch and coco chips down there for her to "burrow" into at night and feel more comfortable.

So the question was asked, "If you give a sulcata a manmade, underground, temperature controlled shelter and a great big pen, will they still dig?" The answer is: Yes. At least some of the time, they will.


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## jackrat

I've been thinking about constructing something like this for my redfoots.


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## dmarcus

They just wanna dig Tom and a cinder block ain't stopping them. I would have done the same thing, it's one thing if you are able to get in there and get them out if something happens. Better to be safe than sorry...


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## Tom

jackrat said:


> I've been thinking about constructing something like this for my redfoots.



Our days have been at or near 100 and the nights have been down in the 50's. Her underground box has a wireless temp probe mounted to the wall and it records the high and lows over a 24 hour period as well as displaying the current temp and humidity. The temps never get below 78 or above 80. It changes no more than 2 degrees in a 24 hour period. My tegu enclosure does the exact same thing. The heat is not on in either enclosure.

I'll do a thread soon, but I semi-buried my monitor lizards enclosure and that one is working very well too. It fluctuates around 10 degrees between a 104 degree day with the sun beating down on the top and a 55 degree night. It was between 87 and 77 on that day.

I too have been wondering about this sort of a system for non-burrowing species of tortoises. Specifically, my Gpp babies. Within another year or two, they will be big enough to live outside full time. I could simply build another big, heated box or shed, but the temps are SOOOOO stable underground and you use a fraction of the electricity trying to maintain warmth in the winter. I'll PM you the link to my monitor thread once I get it done and tell me what you think. It might be just the right compromise of above ground and way underground for a redfoot or a leopard.


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## TortieLuver

Tom~Thanks so much for this thread! What a great example of showing others that want to build a large, long-lasting enclosure. So when are you coming to my house???? You know I need a couple more enclosures done


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## Tom

Christy, I wish I had the time to go around and do that sort of thing. That would be fun.


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## SulcataSquirt

So Tom - now that you linked this thread in another one - how does Daisy like her enclosure? Does she still use it on her own??


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## Tom

SulcataSquirt said:


> So Tom - now that you linked this thread in another one - how does Daisy like her enclosure? Does she still use it on her own??



She was using it perfectly. The problem was she decided not to tolerate the presence of any other tortoises in "her" territory. I moved her to the adults pen and I moved my four hets and Tuck and Trey into Daisy's pen. Its funny, the six of them have been in it longer than Daisy was, but we still refer to it as "Daisy's" pen. Daisy has now learned to go into the night house with all the adults, but only 2 of the 6 yearlings will put themselves away underground. Every night I still have to pop the top and put them down the hole. Thankfully, they stay down there once I put them down there, but I look forward to the day when they figure it out and go in at night on their own.


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## bfmorris

Tom said:


> Not in the least. My adults don't do it and at her size, she CAN'T do it.




Fascinating project! You've put a lot of thought into this.

I think the wood is a better choice than concrete because it does provide somewhat of a thermal break.

Have you measured your underground temperatures over the year?

I have, and I've noticed a flywheel effect that benefits the tortoises.


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## Tom

I finished setting it all up in June, just as it started getting really hot every day here. The temps hovered between 75-80 all summer long with no electricity at all. We finally had a cold spell and some rain here a couple weeks ago and the heater kicked on for the first time. Right now its set at 75, but we are still having days in the 80s- 90s. When it gets cooler in another month or so, I'll bump the thermostat up to 80 for the winter.

Over in my Tegu pen, which has the same set up but with no heat, the temps are 69-70 right now, but I expect it to drop into the fifties in December or January.


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## MatrixDJ

That is really cool!! I wish all tortoises could be taken care of like you take care of them Tom!!


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