# Outdoor Accommodation in a Colder (UK) Climate



## JoesMum

Background

We live in the UK and have had our Greek, Joe, a male Testudo Graeca Graeca (TGG), since 1970. He is full grown, weighing in at around 3.2kg (7lb) and measures just over 26cm (10”) Straight Carapace Length (SCL)

He would have been wild caught, so was not a baby when he joined the family.

Joe is a “garden tortoise” living outdoors from when he comes out of hibernation, usually March-April, until he goes back into hibernation which can be any time from mid-October onwards. In recent years late November to early December has been typical.

For a tortoise of Joe’s size, there are few predators in the UK that could be a problem to him. If you have a smaller animal, and depending on where you live, then you need to be aware that creatures like foxes, badgers, buzzards, red kite and rats could all be a potential risk.

I have put this document together in an attempt to collate my tips for keeping a tortoise outdoors and healthy when temperatures and weather are not always ideal. I am not using this to offer advice about food, water or hibernation though all 3 get a mention. This is not the only way to do it. It is what we have used successfully for many years.


Climate

We live in Kent in the South East of England where the weather is generally warmer and dryer than much of the UK. However, we do get the cold and the rain, especially in the spring and autumn. Like the rest of the UK, the weather is unpredictable and what happens cannot be guaranteed from one week to the next, sometimes from one hour to the next.

When the sun is out, temperatures at ground level in a sheltered spot are considerably hotter than the air temperature shown on the weather forecast. As with keeping a tort indoors, what harms a tort is being cold and/or wet for an extended period - even getting caught out in a cold shower is unlikely to harm your tort; they happen in the wild from time to time too. Obviously care needs to be taken to ensure that there's no flood risk.

Joe could not live outdoors for this entire period without some help from us. The cool mornings of spring and autumn in particular do not provide enough basking heat for him to get started.


Post hibernation

I look for the air temperature rising to about 11C (53F) by day before Joe is brought out of hibernation. Accuweather’s website for your town gives you a pretty good indication of trends.

When I get him up, he gets a long warm soak immediately and continues to get one twice a day until he is clearly fully awake and eating and drinking properly.

At my herp vet’s recommendation, I add Reptoboost electrolyte to his soaking water in this period to help counteract the dehydration of hibernation.

Depending on the weather outside, Joe will spend much of his time in our conservatory doing very little at first; the floor is cleared of all objects he could eat or attempt to mate with just in case. After a few days, he will do an enormous pee with a load of urate, and probably a poop, and the eating and drinking kicks backs in.

_Joe under the Basking Lamp in the conservatory. UVB lighting is not necessary as Joe spends so little time indoors._





Basking outdoors

A tortoise, being cold blooded, needs to absorb heat from an external source in order to be active and also to digest food. If the sun is out then everything is great and a well-basked tortoise can be literally hot to handle.

A larger tort like Joe takes longer to cool down than a small one. A good charge under the basking lamp can last him a couple of hours on a cold day. Smaller torts will need to bask more frequently.

If the night is too cold then it takes much longer for a tort to warm up and become active which reduces the amount of time available for it to eat and digest.

In spring and autumn, it can be assumed that the nights will be cold, frost is a risk, and that the mornings will be chilly; some days the sun will be amazing and some days it will rain or worse all day. You must be constantly aware of the forecast and be ready to react to it.


Garden Adaptations

*Cold Frame*

Your tort needs a good start to the day. Keep him indoors (a box will do) overnight if there’s any risk of frost. If he sleeps outdoors, he needs to be dry and protected from the cold. For this we have a Cold Frame located in a spot in the garden that gets the sun first thing.

If using a cold frame, make sure that rain water doesn't drain through it. Locate it in a sheltered spot, against a fence say, so that the earth underneath it stays dry when it's raining.

Joe usually chooses to sleep in it, but when he doesn’t then I wait until he’s clearly cooled down and then pop him in. Do it too early and he’ll simply go and sleep elsewhere.

_Joe’s original was a garden centre cold frame with a perspex (plexiglass) roof – this one was built by my father in law. It has no floor as he likes to dig into the bare earth and has straw in one end so he can push under it. The area in front of the door is empty and a popular basking spot_






The cold frame is great for the mornings in the summer, but in the spring it doesn’t provide enough heat to charge up a tortoise for the day ahead.

*Dog Kennel with a Basking Lamp*

_We have lined this with silver reflective insulation. The roof is hinged and we put a plastic mat on the floor to make cleaning easier. It came with the clear door curtain which helps keep the interior warmer. There’s also a water bowl. The lamp is on a timer, so the kennel is warming up by the time I put Joe in it to start the day. Joe can return to the kennel at any time during the day if he chooses to bask again. Note the step: Joe is big and can climb; smaller torts may need a ramp!_




*Blue Slate Chips*

Tortoises know where the warm spots are and will gravitate toward them. Typically they are sheltered by plants, they don’t like to feel exposed, and get full sun. The sun isn’t that warm early and late in the year, so we have laid Blue Slate Chips on the ground. These absorb what little heat is around surprisingly quickly and Joe loves lying on them as he basks.




If Joe’s starting to find it a bit hot, he will move so that only part of his plastron rests on the stone chips. This picture was taken on a cold day in April when it snowed later in the day – he still managed to get a bit too warm!



I have started a thread showing the effect of Blue Slate on temperature. It can be found here:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/demonstrating-the-effect-of-blue-slate-on-temperature.141716/


Ongoing

As the year rolls on, the weather does progressively get better in theory and Joe is able to be outdoors 24/7 without extra help from a lamp or soaks.

However, a prolonged wet and chilly spell isn’t unusual at any time. A couple of days of inactivity due to bad weather will do no harm, it happens in the wild, but if the outlook is that the poor weather will be more prolonged then the kennel heat lamp is pressed back into action.

Winding down for Hiibernation

You _must_ keep an eye on your tortoise’s weight throughout the year. There should be a steady gain throughout, probably levelling out late August.

Joe hibernates, so he needs to maintain his peak weight right up until he’s boxed for the winter. By using the heat lamp in his kennel, I find Joe will keep right on eating and slow down of his own accord when the time is right.

Please remember that he has always hibernated and we have learned over many years to read him and the weather forecast together to know when the time is right for hibernation.

Joe will start to eat less as the days grow shorter and the weather cools. He is also less active in the garden. Gradually he will stop eating completely. Most importantly though, there will be little or no weight loss during this period.

I look for the weather forecast to show me daytime temperatures below 10C (50F) for the week ahead before I’ll hibernate Joe. It is not unusual for the first frost of the winter to be the night Joe is packed away.


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## mibblead

Joe looks amazing i can't get over the size of him! Some good tips here, this is my first time with torts and terrified of the thought of hibernation so all the info i can get is a massive help!


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## Amron

I have found this article really helpful, thank you, JOE is one lucky tortoise. I looked at buying the blu slate chips today but changed my mind to wait until I have finished my enclosures.


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## JoesMum

mibblead said:


> Joe looks amazing i can't get over the size of him! Some good tips here, this is my first time with torts and terrified of the thought of hibernation so all the info i can get is a massive help!


No tortoise has to hibernate - some species cannot. With smaller torts, it's safer not to. 

A tort must be completely healthy and at full weight for its size before attempting it. It also must have an empty stomach. 

You have to keep monitoring and weighing - if body weight drops by 10% it must be woken. 

Keeping a steady temperature of 5C can be a challenge.


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## mibblead

The vet has told me to pop them in for a check up once the weather turns for winter and see what he thinks, hopefully I can just keep them as they are!


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## JoesMum

It's 10am on a May morning after a cold night. I have just popped out with the temp gun and done some measurements 

Air temp 13C/55F
Ground temp in shade (had no sun) 8C/44F

Temp on that patch of blue slate chips where Joe is basking in full sun

28C/82F and rising!

If you do nothing else... get some blue slate chips in the sun for your tort!


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## CathyNed

JoesMum said:


> It's 10am on a May morning after a cold night. I have just popped out with the temp gun and done some measurements
> 
> Air temp 13C/55F
> Ground temp in shade (had no sun) 8C/44F
> 
> Temp on that patch of blue slate chips where Joe is basking in full sun
> 
> 28C/82F and rising!
> 
> If you do nothing else... get some blue slate chips in the sun for your tort!


Hi Joes Mum,
How warm does your red brick edging get? Instead of the blue chips, do you think some similar coulour paving slabs would work? Just mindful that Ned doesnt raise his back shell and drags his legs somewhat. Those chips can be pretty sharp round the edges for him.


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## JoesMum

CathyNed said:


> Hi Joes Mum,
> How warm does your red brick edging get? Instead of the blue chips, do you think some similar coulour paving slabs would work? Just mindful that Ned doesnt raise his back shell and drags his legs somewhat. Those chips can be pretty sharp round the edges for him.


@CathyNed The bricks don't warm up as much, or as quickly, as the slate. I did some quick measurements after the sun was out for about 90 minutes one day last week - See here:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/demonstrating-the-effect-of-blue-slate-on-temperature.141716/

I get the large slate chips - 4cm. The finer grade got dragged everywhere; even the birds were chucking them on the lawn. They're not particularly sharp. Although I realise Ned as issues raising himself. 

If you look at the conservatory basking lamp picture, the slab under the lamp is dark coloured. I think it was described as "slate effect" at Homebase. That would be better than brick.


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## CathyNed

JoesMum said:


> @CathyNed The bricks don't warm up as much, or as quickly, as the slate. I did some quick measurements after the sun was out for about 90 minutes one day last week - See here:
> http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/demonstrating-the-effect-of-blue-slate-on-temperature.141716/
> 
> I get the large slate chips - 4cm. The finer grade got dragged everywhere; even the birds were chucking them on the lawn. They're not particularly sharp. Although I realise Ned as issues raising himself.
> 
> If you look at the conservatory basking lamp picture, the slab under the lamp is dark coloured. I think it was described as "slate effect" at Homebase. That would be better than brick.


Thats what i was thinking if i used darker shaded paving slabs exactly like in your conservatory pic in the sunnier side. Less scrapung on edges of loose stone hopefully.


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## twoodsy2003

JoesMum said:


> It's 10am on a May morning after a cold night. I have just popped out with the temp gun and done some measurements
> 
> Air temp 13C/55F
> Ground temp in shade (had no sun) 8C/44F
> 
> Temp on that patch of blue slate chips where Joe is basking in full sun
> 
> 28C/82F and rising!
> 
> If you do nothing else... get some blue slate chips in the sun for your tort!





JoesMum said:


> No tortoise has to hibernate - some species cannot. With smaller torts, it's safer not to.
> 
> A tort must be completely healthy and at full weight for its size before attempting it. It also must have an empty stomach.
> 
> You have to keep monitoring and weighing - if body weight drops by 10% it must be woken.
> 
> Keeping a steady temperature of 5C can be a challenge.



Great info. I have been working up to keeping my herman out 24/7 during the summer months. This spring has been quite unperdictalbe and I have been concerned what is too cold. I put him out during the day but have been bringing him in at dusk. I have a temperature gun that reads the surface temps and see your ground temp is 44F. My question is what ground temp is too cold for my dear Cecil?


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## JoesMum

twoodsy2003 said:


> Great info. I have been working up to keeping my herman out 24/7 during the summer months. This spring has been quite unperdictalbe and I have been concerned what is too cold. I put him out during the day but have been bringing him in at dusk. I have a temperature gun that reads the surface temps and see your ground temp is 44F. My question is what ground temp is too cold for my dear Cecil?


I go by air temperature and then factor in whether or not the sun is out.

If the temperature is above about 12C (54F) AND the sun is out then you can achieve ground temperatures _in the sun_ conducive to basking in sheltered spots.

My ground temperature measurement of 8C/44F was a spot in the shade that had had no sun at all that morning. I just wanted illustrate the difference the sun makes. The air temperature was warmer than that, 13C/55F, but the ground had not warmed up in the shade.

I don't know how big your tort is. Unless he's a big lump like Joe, I wouldn't put him out unless you have the sunshine if air temperatures are below 70F

Use your temperature gun and learn where the hot spots are in your outdoor enclosure and learn what temperatures you're achieving in it as the weather changes. The rules for outside are the same as indoors really - you need to be achieving the same temperatures for healthy activity.


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## twoodsy2003

Thanks for the reply. I will continue to monitor the ground temps. I am still working on his outdoor enclosure and will be posting pic's to get some feed back in hopes to learn ideas from others on what have worked well in the northeastern US region.


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## JoesMum

I've just taken delivery of Joe's new cold frame - built to order by UK pet housing company. I think this may be their first tortoise job 



I really need to prune that Japanese Maple. It's getting too big for its boots


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## RosemaryDW

Goodness, that's nice.


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## Rue

Ditto!


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## twoodsy2003

Very nice! I'll look into building one before the end of summer. I'd like to try to keep him out as long as possible.


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## CathyNed

@JoesMum Joes a lucky guy!! Cold frame looks lovely and cosy!


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## Marinated mamma

@JoesMum well impressive! I absolutely love it! My fella is in the process of building cold frame for my three but obviously a bit bigger I'm hoping it turns out as nice as joes! Bless him lucky little dude


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## Tidgy's Dad

Great thread, Linda.
I love reading about how people cope keeping tortoises in different climates.
Off to read the blue slate thread now, not that it's of much use to me, but interesting research.
Thanks.


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## Rockylloyd

JoesMum said:


> Background
> 
> We live in the UK and have had our Greek, Joe, a male Testudo Graeca Graeca (TGG), since 1970. He is full grown, weighing in at around 3.2kg (7lb) and measures just over 26cm (10”) Straight Carapace Length (SCL)
> 
> He would have been wild caught, so was not a baby when he joined the family.
> 
> Joe is a “garden tortoise” living outdoors from when he comes out of hibernation, usually March-April, until he goes back into hibernation which can be any time from mid-October onwards. In recent years late November to early December has been typical.
> 
> For a tortoise of Joe’s size, there are few predators in the UK that could be a problem to him. If you have a smaller animal, and depending on where you live, then you need to be aware that creatures like foxes, badgers, buzzards, red kite and rats could all be a potential risk.
> 
> I have put this document together in an attempt to collate my tips for keeping a tortoise outdoors and healthy when temperatures and weather are not always ideal. I am not using this to offer advice about food, water or hibernation though all 3 get a mention. This is not the only way to do it. It is what we have used successfully for many years.
> 
> 
> Climate
> 
> We live in Kent in the South East of England where the weather is generally warmer and dryer than much of the UK. However, we do get the cold and the rain, especially in the spring and autumn. Like the rest of the UK, the weather is unpredictable and what happens cannot be guaranteed from one week to the next, sometimes from one hour to the next.
> 
> When the sun is out, temperatures at ground level in a sheltered spot are considerably hotter than the air temperature shown on the weather forecast. As with keeping a tort indoors, what harms a tort is being cold and/or wet for an extended period - even getting caught out in a cold shower is unlikely to harm your tort; they happen in the wild from time to time too. Obviously care needs to be taken to ensure that there's no flood risk.
> 
> Joe could not live outdoors for this entire period without some help from us. The cool mornings of spring and autumn in particular do not provide enough basking heat for him to get started.
> 
> 
> Post hibernation
> 
> I look for the air temperature rising to about 11C (53F) by day before Joe is brought out of hibernation. Accuweather’s website for your town gives you a pretty good indication of trends.
> 
> When I get him up, he gets a long warm soak immediately and continues to get one twice a day until he is clearly fully awake and eating and drinking properly.
> 
> At my herp vet’s recommendation, I add Reptoboost electrolyte to his soaking water in this period to help counteract the dehydration of hibernation.
> 
> Depending on the weather outside, Joe will spend much of his time in our conservatory doing very little at first; the floor is cleared of all objects he could eat or attempt to mate with just in case. After a few days, he will do an enormous pee with a load of urate, and probably a poop, and the eating and drinking kicks backs in.
> 
> _Joe under the Basking Lamp in the conservatory. UVB lighting is not necessary as Joe spends so little time indoors._
> 
> View attachment 171773
> 
> 
> 
> Basking outdoors
> 
> A tortoise, being cold blooded, needs to absorb heat from an external source in order to be active and also to digest food. If the sun is out then everything is great and a well-basked tortoise can be literally hot to handle.
> 
> A larger tort like Joe takes longer to cool down than a small one. A good charge under the basking lamp can last him a couple of hours on a cold day. Smaller torts will need to bask more frequently.
> 
> If the night is too cold then it takes much longer for a tort to warm up and become active which reduces the amount of time available for it to eat and digest.
> 
> In spring and autumn, it can be assumed that the nights will be cold, frost is a risk, and that the mornings will be chilly; some days the sun will be amazing and some days it will rain or worse all day. You must be constantly aware of the forecast and be ready to react to it.
> 
> 
> Garden Adaptations
> 
> *Cold Frame*
> 
> Your tort needs a good start to the day. Keep him indoors (a box will do) overnight if there’s any risk of frost. If he sleeps outdoors, he needs to be dry and protected from the cold. For this we have a Cold Frame located in a spot in the garden that gets the sun first thing.
> 
> If using a cold frame, make sure that rain water doesn't drain through it. Locate it in a sheltered spot, against a fence say, so that the earth underneath it stays dry when it's raining.
> 
> Joe usually chooses to sleep in it, but when he doesn’t then I wait until he’s clearly cooled down and then pop him in. Do it too early and he’ll simply go and sleep elsewhere.
> 
> _Joe’s original was a garden centre cold frame with a perspex (plexiglass) roof – this one was built by my father in law. It has no floor as he likes to dig into the bare earth and has straw in one end so he can push under it. The area in front of the door is empty and a popular basking spot_
> 
> View attachment 171774
> 
> View attachment 171775
> 
> 
> The cold frame is great for the mornings in the summer, but in the spring it doesn’t provide enough heat to charge up a tortoise for the day ahead.
> 
> *Dog Kennel with a Basking Lamp*
> 
> _We have lined this with silver reflective insulation. The roof is hinged and we put a plastic mat on the floor to make cleaning easier. It came with the clear door curtain which helps keep the interior warmer. There’s also a water bowl. The lamp is on a timer, so the kennel is warming up by the time I put Joe in it to start the day. Joe can return to the kennel at any time during the day if he chooses to bask again. Note the step: Joe is big and can climb; smaller torts may need a ramp!_
> 
> View attachment 171776
> 
> 
> *Blue Slate Chips*
> 
> Tortoises know where the warm spots are and will gravitate toward them. Typically they are sheltered by plants, they don’t like to feel exposed, and get full sun. The sun isn’t that warm early and late in the year, so we have laid Blue Slate Chips on the ground. These absorb what little heat is around surprisingly quickly and Joe loves lying on them as he basks.
> 
> View attachment 171777
> 
> 
> If Joe’s starting to find it a bit hot, he will move so that only part of his plastron rests on the stone chips. This picture was taken on a cold day in April when it snowed later in the day – he still managed to get a bit too warm!
> View attachment 171778
> 
> 
> I have started a thread showing the effect of Blue Slate on temperature. It can be found here:
> http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/demonstrating-the-effect-of-blue-slate-on-temperature.141716/
> 
> 
> Ongoing
> 
> As the year rolls on, the weather does progressively get better in theory and Joe is able to be outdoors 24/7 without extra help from a lamp or soaks.
> 
> However, a prolonged wet and chilly spell isn’t unusual at any time. A couple of days of inactivity due to bad weather will do no harm, it happens in the wild, but if the outlook is that the poor weather will be more prolonged then the kennel heat lamp is pressed back into action.
> 
> Winding down for Hiibernation
> 
> You _must_ keep an eye on your tortoise’s weight throughout the year. There should be a steady gain throughout, probably levelling out late August.
> 
> Joe hibernates, so he needs to maintain his peak weight right up until he’s boxed for the winter. By using the heat lamp in his kennel, I find Joe will keep right on eating and slow down of his own accord when the time is right.
> 
> Please remember that he has always hibernated and we have learned over many years to read him and the weather forecast together to know when the time is right for hibernation.
> 
> Joe will start to eat less as the days grow shorter and the weather cools. He is also less active in the garden. Gradually he will stop eating completely. Most importantly though, there will be little or no weight loss during this period.
> 
> I look for the weather forecast to show me daytime temperatures below 10C (50F) for the week ahead before I’ll hibernate Joe. It is not unusual for the first frost of the winter to be the night Joe is packed away.


 
New owner of a Greek tort found this so useful thanks , don't get the weather so great here in Wales as you do in Kent , so found this extremely helpful


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## Tidgy's Dad

Rockylloyd said:


> New owner of a Greek tort found this so useful thanks , don't get the weather so great here in Wales as you do in Kent , so found this extremely helpful


Welcome!
I'm half Welsh and well know the climate, though I now live in a place where Greeks occur in the wild.Other Welsh members about too.


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## Kristoff

@JoesMum, I'm not anywhere near the UK climate but this thread is so helpful. The temps are starting to fall even here in Turkey, so I made a cold frame inspired by your post. (I'm not a hands-on person, unfortunately). 

A heartfelt thank you for sharing your knowledge!!


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## Marinated mamma

Kristoff said:


> @JoesMum, I'm not anywhere near the UK climate but this thread is so helpful. The temps are starting to fall even here in Turkey, so I made a cold frame inspired by your post. (I'm not a hands-on person, ]



It doesn't matter how hands on you are your tortoise will love it


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## JoesMum

I'm glad this is proving useful for ideas


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## Marinated mamma

Our new cold frame is well and truly under construction! I can't take the credit it's the other half with his ingenuous building skills


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## Marinated mamma

Will post with the finished result obviously!


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## Marinated mamma

Not today tho as its raining ... Boo thumbs down


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## JoesMum

Because it's relevant, those coping in a colder climate may be interested in this thread by @Maria Ohlson in Sweden which can be much colder than the UK!
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/hello-from-sweden.147111/


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## Lauren Tilbury

Hi, @JoesMum.
This cold frame, is it used during the winter months? If so, when they are hibernating, do they mind the sun coming in. I'm sorry. I'm really new to this. I live in Southern California. We don't get very cold here. It's been beautiful for the last week. I am trying to come up with a configuration for her den. I see different things on the forum. Do you have two houses? One for winter and one for summer?


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## JoesMum

Lauren Tilbury said:


> Hi, @JoesMum.
> This cold frame, is it used during the winter months? If so, when they are hibernating, do they mind the sun coming in. I'm sorry. I'm really new to this. I live in Southern California. We don't get very cold here. It's been beautiful for the last week. I am trying to come up with a configuration for her den. I see different things on the forum. Do you have two houses? One for winter and one for summer?


@Lauren Tilbury In the winter months Joe hibernates so he does absolutely nothing for 3-4 months. 

Until this winter we have always had a hibernation box in the garage, but climate change has made temperature stability an issue. As a result, this winter he's hibernating in a fridge we got specially for the purpose. 

If you have a tortoise that's not hibernating for the winter and the weather outside is warm enough there's no reason you couldn't use the cold frame all winter. 

It does not provide enough insulation against temperature change for hibernating a tortoise in it though. For successful healthy hibernation temperatures must be stable around 5C/40F and never going below freezing or above 10C/50F


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## Lauren Tilbury

@JoesMum, thank you for the info. I am in Southern California. I am about 15 minutes from Disneyland, but by the beach. It doesn't get too cold here. Right now it's 65 degrees, but warm in the sun. I was wondering about the black slate rocks. I'm having a hard time finding black slate. Can it be any natural rock that is black??


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## JoesMum

Lauren Tilbury said:


> @JoesMum, thank you for the info. I am in Southern California. I am about 15 minutes from Disneyland, but by the beach. It doesn't get too cold here. Right now it's 65 degrees, but warm in the sun. I was wondering about the black slate rocks. I'm having a hard time finding black slate. Can it be any natural rock that is black??


Any dark coloured rocks will do the job. The dark colour absorbs the heat better. 

65F is 18C which translates into a pretty nice day in the UK. We'd be more than happy with that! If the sun is out, you should have no problem getting the ground temperature up.


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## micki

This is an excellent read. Many thanks for posting it.


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## beccabobbins

I have just finished making an outdoor enclosure in Dorset for my Greek tortoise and I found this such a helpful read. 
I'm definitely going to invest in some blue slate chippings and have an area for basking.
My tortoise spends a lot of time indoors under his lamp at the moment but my plan is to let him spend most of days outdoors and bring him in overnight. 
On cooler days should I let him warm up under his lamp before I put him out or just pop him in his cold frame?


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## JoesMum

beccabobbins said:


> I have just finished making an outdoor enclosure in Dorset for my Greek tortoise and I found this such a helpful read.
> I'm definitely going to invest in some blue slate chippings and have an area for basking.
> My tortoise spends a lot of time indoors under his lamp at the moment but my plan is to let him spend most of days outdoors and bring him in overnight.
> On cooler days should I let him warm up under his lamp before I put him out or just pop him in his cold frame?


I let Joe warm up under a lamp first. 

I tend to think of it as putting him on charge like a mobile phone... if he's got a full charge then he's good for a couple of hours even in the colder days. Joe can of course return to the lamp in the kennel at any point.


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## risepark

Thanks for a terrific post. Unfortunately we have no neighbours able to come in every day, or relatives. In addition we have a large field to the rear, and I know we get the occasional fox. There is a wildlife park who will look after him, in an enclosed space with heating etc. They are very proffesional, and we will probablly take him there. We have used a local specialist reptile shop, and he is kept in a terrarium. It's just that he loves the outdoors. All the other advice is great, and I thank you. Regards risepark


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## Ed mitch

This is very helpful especially as I live down in cornwall!


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## TiffytheTort

Thx! This will help with my outdoor enclosure for Tiffany

great thread


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## Angel K

Great ideas... so if it is 43 f the blue chips get hotter? I also need safety so I would need to figure out how to do that. 
We have Javalina come into our yard and stray cats and was told we have a couple of mountain lions too ...


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## katieandiggy

@JoesMum hi Linda, can you tell me more about your kennel? Did you insulate it with foam or just the reflective material? Also where did you purchase it, ive seen similar on eBay? 
Also if there was going to be a prolonged spell of say rain, for a few days or more, what would Joe do? Would he stay in the cold frame or would you put him in the kennel? 
Thank you


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## JoesMum

katieandiggy said:


> @JoesMum hi Linda, can you tell me more about your kennel? Did you insulate it with foam or just the reflective material? Also where did you purchase it, ive seen similar on eBay?
> Also if there was going to be a prolonged spell of say rain, for a few days or more, what would Joe do? Would he stay in the cold frame or would you put him in the kennel?
> Thank you



I got it from Amazon (flat packed) and only used the silver reflective stuff. This kennel was never intended as a warm night shelter and was not sufficiently well insulated for that. It was simply intended as a basking place.

I you buy a kennel, I recommend getting one with a hinged roof so you have easy access from above.


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## JoesMum

katieandiggy said:


> @JoesMum hi Linda, can you tell me more about your kennel? Did you insulate it with foam or just the reflective material? Also where did you purchase it, ive seen similar on eBay?
> Also if there was going to be a prolonged spell of say rain, for a few days or more, what would Joe do? Would he stay in the cold frame or would you put him in the kennel?
> Thank you



Joe was out 24/7 from the word go apart from the chilliest of nights in spring and autumn.

He spent the night under straw in his cold frame and in cool and/or wet weather, I would simply haul him out and stick him under the lamp in the kennel. As he was so big, a few days of less activity and eating wouldn’t do any harm.


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## katieandiggy

JoesMum said:


> Joe was out 24/7 from the word go apart from the chilliest of nights in spring and autumn.
> 
> He spent the night under straw in his cold frame and in cool and/or wet weather, I would simply haul him out and stick him under the lamp in the kennel. As he was so big, a few days of less activity and eating wouldn’t do any harm.



Thank you! 
I’m considering adopting a large Greek, 40+ years old so I’m thinking it would be a similar situation to Joe, I need to double check with previous owners to confirm that she did stay out in the way Joe did.


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## JoesMum

katieandiggy said:


> Thank you!
> I’m considering adopting a large Greek, 40+ years old so I’m thinking it would be a similar situation to Joe, I need to double check with previous owners to confirm that she did stay out in the way Joe did.



Undoubtedly a wild caught pre CITES, exactly as Joe was. Age will be a guess. 

Follow what the current owner does within reason. These torts generally come out of hibernation and then pretty much love wild in the garden otherwise. Joe was spoiled


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## Polly

JoesMum said:


> Background
> 
> We live in the UK and have had our Greek, Joe, a male Testudo Graeca Graeca (TGG), since 1970. He is full grown, weighing in at around 3.2kg (7lb) and measures just over 26cm (10”) Straight Carapace Length (SCL)
> 
> He would have been wild caught, so was not a baby when he joined the family.
> 
> Joe is a “garden tortoise” living outdoors from when he comes out of hibernation, usually March-April, until he goes back into hibernation which can be any time from mid-October onwards. In recent years late November to early December has been typical.
> 
> For a tortoise of Joe’s size, there are few predators in the UK that could be a problem to him. If you have a smaller animal, and depending on where you live, then you need to be aware that creatures like foxes, badgers, buzzards, red kite and rats could all be a potential risk.
> 
> I have put this document together in an attempt to collate my tips for keeping a tortoise outdoors and healthy when temperatures and weather are not always ideal. I am not using this to offer advice about food, water or hibernation though all 3 get a mention. This is not the only way to do it. It is what we have used successfully for many years.
> 
> 
> Climate
> 
> We live in Kent in the South East of England where the weather is generally warmer and dryer than much of the UK. However, we do get the cold and the rain, especially in the spring and autumn. Like the rest of the UK, the weather is unpredictable and what happens cannot be guaranteed from one week to the next, sometimes from one hour to the next.
> 
> When the sun is out, temperatures at ground level in a sheltered spot are considerably hotter than the air temperature shown on the weather forecast. As with keeping a tort indoors, what harms a tort is being cold and/or wet for an extended period - even getting caught out in a cold shower is unlikely to harm your tort; they happen in the wild from time to time too. Obviously care needs to be taken to ensure that there's no flood risk.
> 
> Joe could not live outdoors for this entire period without some help from us. The cool mornings of spring and autumn in particular do not provide enough basking heat for him to get started.
> 
> 
> Post hibernation
> 
> I look for the air temperature rising to about 11C (53F) by day before Joe is brought out of hibernation. Accuweather’s website for your town gives you a pretty good indication of trends.
> 
> When I get him up, he gets a long warm soak immediately and continues to get one twice a day until he is clearly fully awake and eating and drinking properly.
> 
> At my herp vet’s recommendation, I add Reptoboost electrolyte to his soaking water in this period to help counteract the dehydration of hibernation.
> 
> Depending on the weather outside, Joe will spend much of his time in our conservatory doing very little at first; the floor is cleared of all objects he could eat or attempt to mate with just in case. After a few days, he will do an enormous pee with a load of urate, and probably a poop, and the eating and drinking kicks backs in.
> 
> _Joe under the Basking Lamp in the conservatory. UVB lighting is not necessary as Joe spends so little time indoors._
> 
> View attachment 171773
> 
> 
> 
> Basking outdoors
> 
> A tortoise, being cold blooded, needs to absorb heat from an external source in order to be active and also to digest food. If the sun is out then everything is great and a well-basked tortoise can be literally hot to handle.
> 
> A larger tort like Joe takes longer to cool down than a small one. A good charge under the basking lamp can last him a couple of hours on a cold day. Smaller torts will need to bask more frequently.
> 
> If the night is too cold then it takes much longer for a tort to warm up and become active which reduces the amount of time available for it to eat and digest.
> 
> In spring and autumn, it can be assumed that the nights will be cold, frost is a risk, and that the mornings will be chilly; some days the sun will be amazing and some days it will rain or worse all day. You must be constantly aware of the forecast and be ready to react to it.
> 
> 
> Garden Adaptations
> 
> *Cold Frame*
> 
> Your tort needs a good start to the day. Keep him indoors (a box will do) overnight if there’s any risk of frost. If he sleeps outdoors, he needs to be dry and protected from the cold. For this we have a Cold Frame located in a spot in the garden that gets the sun first thing.
> 
> If using a cold frame, make sure that rain water doesn't drain through it. Locate it in a sheltered spot, against a fence say, so that the earth underneath it stays dry when it's raining.
> 
> Joe usually chooses to sleep in it, but when he doesn’t then I wait until he’s clearly cooled down and then pop him in. Do it too early and he’ll simply go and sleep elsewhere.
> 
> _Joe’s original was a garden centre cold frame with a perspex (plexiglass) roof – this one was built by my father in law. It has no floor as he likes to dig into the bare earth and has straw in one end so he can push under it. The area in front of the door is empty and a popular basking spot_
> 
> View attachment 171774
> 
> View attachment 171775
> 
> 
> The cold frame is great for the mornings in the summer, but in the spring it doesn’t provide enough heat to charge up a tortoise for the day ahead.
> 
> *Dog Kennel with a Basking Lamp*
> 
> _We have lined this with silver reflective insulation. The roof is hinged and we put a plastic mat on the floor to make cleaning easier. It came with the clear door curtain which helps keep the interior warmer. There’s also a water bowl. The lamp is on a timer, so the kennel is warming up by the time I put Joe in it to start the day. Joe can return to the kennel at any time during the day if he chooses to bask again. Note the step: Joe is big and can climb; smaller torts may need a ramp!_
> 
> View attachment 171776
> 
> 
> *Blue Slate Chips*
> 
> Tortoises know where the warm spots are and will gravitate toward them. Typically they are sheltered by plants, they don’t like to feel exposed, and get full sun. The sun isn’t that warm early and late in the year, so we have laid Blue Slate Chips on the ground. These absorb what little heat is around surprisingly quickly and Joe loves lying on them as he basks.
> 
> View attachment 171777
> 
> 
> If Joe’s starting to find it a bit hot, he will move so that only part of his plastron rests on the stone chips. This picture was taken on a cold day in April when it snowed later in the day – he still managed to get a bit too warm!
> View attachment 171778
> 
> 
> I have started a thread showing the effect of Blue Slate on temperature. It can be found here:
> http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/demonstrating-the-effect-of-blue-slate-on-temperature.141716/
> 
> 
> Ongoing
> 
> As the year rolls on, the weather does progressively get better in theory and Joe is able to be outdoors 24/7 without extra help from a lamp or soaks.
> 
> However, a prolonged wet and chilly spell isn’t unusual at any time. A couple of days of inactivity due to bad weather will do no harm, it happens in the wild, but if the outlook is that the poor weather will be more prolonged then the kennel heat lamp is pressed back into action.
> 
> Winding down for Hiibernation
> 
> You _must_ keep an eye on your tortoise’s weight throughout the year. There should be a steady gain throughout, probably levelling out late August.
> 
> Joe hibernates, so he needs to maintain his peak weight right up until he’s boxed for the winter. By using the heat lamp in his kennel, I find Joe will keep right on eating and slow down of his own accord when the time is right.
> 
> Please remember that he has always hibernated and we have learned over many years to read him and the weather forecast together to know when the time is right for hibernation.
> 
> Joe will start to eat less as the days grow shorter and the weather cools. He is also less active in the garden. Gradually he will stop eating completely. Most importantly though, there will be little or no weight loss during this period.
> 
> I look for the weather forecast to show me daytime temperatures below 10C (50F) for the week ahead before I’ll hibernate Joe. It is not unusual for the first frost of the winter to be the night Joe is packed away.


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## Polly

I'm rather late to this party but this article it's brilliant - thank you. 
Buddy is still small as he's really still a baby marginated, but we'd love him to eventually have the freedom of our garden, which is fully enclosed, though frequented by cats. At the moment we only put him out when it is warm and we are home


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## gtc

This is my new outdoor balcony enclosure. I finished it about a week ago. Location: south of Norway. June-july average daytime temps 18C-20C. Night time temps dip to about 10C for a few hours.



I added a bunch of hay to the coldframe and he sleeps under it every night. Waterbowl was also added after I took the picture. Daytime temps in the coldframe reach about 26-31C when the sun is out. He has lived in the outdoor enclosure for about a week now. He was quite active the first 4 days, but the last 2 days I haven't seen him up (I have a motion activated outdoor camera that sends push notifications when he moves around).

Should I put him back inside due to his inactivity the last 2 days, or are the temps OK and I should just give him some time?


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## JoesMum

gtc said:


> This is my new outdoor balcony enclosure. I finished it about a week ago. Location: south of Norway. June-july average daytime temps 18C-20C. Night time temps dip to about 10C for a few hours.
> View attachment 273805
> 
> 
> I added a bunch of hay to the coldframe and he sleeps under it every night. Waterbowl was also added after I took the picture. Daytime temps in the coldframe reach about 26-31C when the sun is out. He has lived in the outdoor enclosure for about a week now. He was quite active the first 4 days, but the last 2 days I haven't seen him up (I have a motion activated outdoor camera that sends push notifications when he moves around).
> 
> Should I put him back inside due to his inactivity the last 2 days, or are the temps OK and I should just give him some time?



If it is dropping to 10C or less at night then I would recommend either pulling him inside once he has settled (just in a box will do) so he doesn’t get too cold. 

The alternative is putting your tort under a heat lamp to get him warmed up quickly in the mornings before letting the cold frame take over.


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## gtc

JoesMum said:


> If it is dropping to 10C or less at night then I would recommend either pulling him inside once he has settled (just in a box will do) so he doesn’t get too cold.
> 
> The alternative is putting your tort under a heat lamp to get him warmed up quickly in the mornings before letting the cold frame take over.




Thank you. What is the minimum night temp for leaving your tortoise outside all night and not using a heat lamp?


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## JoesMum

gtc said:


> Thank you. What is the minimum night temp for leaving your tortoise outside all night and not using a heat lamp?



There is no exact figure as much depends on how quickly the day warms up next day and also on the size of your tortoise(see comment in my post about how bigger tortoises retain their body temperature better)

Below 10C is a hibernation temperature. 

I would be very careful until temperatures are above 15C day and night. 

If the weather is slow to warm up and get sunny next day then your tortoise may still need a heat lamp even if it was 20C overnight. 

Remember, that tortoises cannot be active, eat or digest their food until they have raised their body temperature with basking. That means full direct sunshine for a period of time using a lamp where the temperature at tortoise-level directly under it is 36-38C.


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## Bigred1974

We also live in the U.K. ( Manchester). Could you point me in the direction of where you bought the cold frame from please? My Russian is only 2 years old ( just) so we have her in if an evening and she goes out on a sunny day and we have lots blue slate - I will see if she likes it. Thanks


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## Bigred1974

Crystal enjoying the Sunny U.K. weather! Got to grab it while you can


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## JoesMum

Bigred1974 said:


> We also live in the U.K. ( Manchester). Could you point me in the direction of where you bought the cold frame from please? My Russian is only 2 years old ( just) so we have her in if an evening and she goes out on a sunny day and we have lots blue slate - I will see if she likes it. Thanks



@Bigred1974 My original cold frame came from Homebase. When we came to replace it the first time, my father in law built a replacement as we couldn’t find another similar online and the third was a custom build by a pet housing company that has since ceased trading. 

The frame has a hinged, perspex roof and has no floor as tortoises likes to dig into the earth.

This was the second one prior to replacement. The measurements of this one are: Length 80cm, Depth 50cm, Height at back 35cm, Height at front, 26cm, Door width 30cm.






A fully glazed cold frame could work by being propped on bricks with a gap to create an entrance


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## Bigred1974

That’s great, thanks. I will look into this. My Dad is quite handy as well so will show him the photos Nd hopefully together we can come up with something similar.


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## Heidilou

JoesMum said:


> I've just taken delivery of Joe's new cold frame - built to order by UK pet housing company. I think this may be their first tortoise job
> View attachment 177438
> 
> 
> I really need to prune that Japanese Maple. It's getting too big for its boots


thats lovely... can I ask how much that cost please? I had no idea about cold houses until I read this thread! xx


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## 1289Gabe

gtc said:


> This is my new outdoor balcony enclosure. I finished it about a week ago. Location: south of Norway. June-july average daytime temps 18C-20C. Night time temps dip to about 10C for a few hours.
> View attachment 273805
> 
> 
> I added a bunch of hay to the coldframe and he sleeps under it every night. Waterbowl was also added after I took the picture. Daytime temps in the coldframe reach about 26-31C when the sun is out. He has lived in the outdoor enclosure for about a week now. He was quite active the first 4 days, but the last 2 days I haven't seen him up (I have a motion activated outdoor camera that sends push notifications when he moves around).
> 
> Should I put him back inside due to his inactivity the last 2 days, or are the temps OK and I should just give him some time?


I would use a CHE lamp to heat him at night. They will keep your buddy nice and toasty.


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## bouaboua

All I can say is WOW! ! ! ! ! ! ! !

Love it! ! ! !


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## JoesMum

Heidilou said:


> thats lovely... can I ask how much that cost please? I had no idea about cold houses until I read this thread! xx


£160 in 2016


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## orli bein

Thank you for this thread. We have two Greeks that we just moved outside this past June. We live in Oakland, CA. They really thrived since moving and summer was wonderful for them. Now that it’s cooler I’ve ordered two custom tortoise houses with built in heat lamps. I’ve been eagerly waiting for them to be ready but in the meantime we’ve had temperatures in the 40s and 50s at night (F). And daytimes that could remain in the low 60s. We had a couple of cold nights that got to 37 degrees F and I brought them inside. Our torts are about 6 years old. I’m now noticing the slow down behavior and think they might be trying to hibernate. They each have a little unheated house but don’t always sleep in them. My male, Scooby, is burrowing in the dirt and I’ve been taking him out to warm in the sun. But he’s barely eating. My female Sheldane is still coming out to bask daily but eating much less. We’ve never hibernated a tortoise and I wasn’t planning to start. It would be hard here bc the Bay Area temps fluctuate so much - it can get really warm suddenly even in the midst of “winter”. Is it important to try and fully hibernate them? Would a heated house that’s protected from rain and allow them to come & go be sufficient for keeping them outdoors through these colder months?


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## orli bein

orli bein said:


> Thank you for this thread. We have two Greeks that we just moved outside this past June. We live in Oakland, CA. They really thrived since moving and summer was wonderful for them. Now that it’s cooler I’ve ordered two custom tortoise houses with built in heat lamps. I’ve been eagerly waiting for them to be ready but in the meantime we’ve had temperatures in the 40s and 50s at night (F). And daytimes that could remain in the low 60s. We had a couple of cold nights that got to 37 degrees F and I brought them inside. Our torts are about 6 years old. I’m now noticing the slow down behavior and think they might be trying to hibernate. They each have a little unheated house but don’t always sleep in them. My male, Scooby, is burrowing in the dirt and I’ve been taking him out to warm in the sun. But he’s barely eating. My female Sheldane is still coming out to bask daily but eating much less. We’ve never hibernated a tortoise and I wasn’t planning to start. It would be hard here bc the Bay Area temps fluctuate so much - it can get really warm suddenly even in the midst of “winter”. Is it important to try and fully hibernate them? Would a heated house that’s protected from rain and allow them to come & go be sufficient for keeping them outdoors through these colder months?





orli bein said:


> Thank you for this thread. We have two Greeks that we just moved outside this past June. We live in Oakland, CA. They really thrived since moving and summer was wonderful for them. Now that it’s cooler I’ve ordered two custom tortoise houses with built in heat lamps. I’ve been eagerly waiting for them to be ready but in the meantime we’ve had temperatures in the 40s and 50s at night (F). And daytimes that could remain in the low 60s. We had a couple of cold nights that got to 37 degrees F and I brought them inside. Our torts are about 6 years old. I’m now noticing the slow down behavior and think they might be trying to hibernate. They each have a little unheated house but don’t always sleep in them. My male, Scooby, is burrowing in the dirt and I’ve been taking him out to warm in the sun. But he’s barely eating. My female Sheldane is still coming out to bask daily but eating much less. We’ve never hibernated a tortoise and I wasn’t planning to start. It would be hard here bc the Bay Area temps fluctuate so much - it can get really warm suddenly even in the midst of “winter”. Is it important to try and fully hibernate them? Would a heated house that’s protected from rain and allow them to come & go be sufficient for keeping them outdoors through these colder months?



I appreciate your liking my recent post and wanted to ask for your advice, if I may. I sense my 2 Greek torts living outside could be exhibitinge quasi hibernation behavior. My male, Scooby, is now burrowed in the dirt and just seems to have stopped eating (as of yesterday). My female Sheldane is still coming out to bask briefly but eating much less. We’ve never hibernated a tortoise and I wasn’t planning to start. It would be hard here bc the Bay Area temps fluctuate so much - it can get really warm suddenly even in the midst of “winter”. Is it important to try and fully hibernate them? Would a heated house that’s protected from rain and allow them to come & go be sufficient for keeping them outdoors through these colder months? Also, my male is in soil that is a bit moist so I worry it could get him sick and that I need to move him. Should I create a cold house with straw or the coconut fiber substrate? Thx so so much, any advice you have would be most appreciated.


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## JoesMum

orli bein said:


> Would a heated house that’s protected from rain and allow them to come & go be sufficient for keeping them outdoors through these colder months?


I don’t know much about the Californian climate; you’d need @Tom or @Yvonne G for that expertise.

In theory, with properly heated and insulated accommodation yes you can. Have a look at what’s done with Sulcatas as they cannot hibernate so must be kept active and eating all winter.

The alternative is fridge hibernation so you guarantee temperature stability. Some have reported that doing this even for a couple of weeks helps the tort reset for being awake


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## Tom

orli bein said:


> I appreciate your liking my recent post and wanted to ask for your advice, if I may. I sense my 2 Greek torts living outside could be exhibitinge quasi hibernation behavior. My male, Scooby, is now burrowed in the dirt and just seems to have stopped eating (as of yesterday). My female Sheldane is still coming out to bask briefly but eating much less. We’ve never hibernated a tortoise and I wasn’t planning to start. It would be hard here bc the Bay Area temps fluctuate so much - it can get really warm suddenly even in the midst of “winter”. Is it important to try and fully hibernate them? Would a heated house that’s protected from rain and allow them to come & go be sufficient for keeping them outdoors through these colder months? Also, my male is in soil that is a bit moist so I worry it could get him sick and that I need to move him. Should I create a cold house with straw or the coconut fiber substrate? Thx so so much, any advice you have would be most appreciated.


Read this thread. In it outdoor housing in our kind of climate is explained. You need to separate your two and there are pics of a great way to do it here:





The Best Way To Raise Any Temperate Species Of Tortoise


I chose the title of this care sheet very carefully. Are there other ways to raise babies and care for adults? Yes. Yes there are, but those ways are not as good. What follows is the BEST way, according to 30 years of research and experimentation with hundreds of babies of many species. What is...




tortoiseforum.org


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## jensem17

This is amazing. Joe is living the dream! I imagine that since Joe has the run of the entire garden that there was some extra work required to close any gaps under the fence... would you mind sharing what you did to escape proof your garden? We have a hedged 12x12 courtyard that I have been eyeing as a tort garden.


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## JoesMum

jensem17 said:


> This is amazing. Joe is living the dream! I imagine that since Joe has the run of the entire garden that there was some extra work required to close any gaps under the fence... would you mind sharing what you did to escape proof your garden? We have a hedged 12x12 courtyard that I have been eyeing as a tort garden.


Our garden, like many in the UK, is fenced with close boarded fencing all the way round. It’s easy to have a secure are with this. We just have to make sure the foxes haven’t dug their way underneath and created an escape route.

This section isn in Joe’s bit, but it’s currently unobscured by plants so you can see what it looks like!


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## Sensimillia

Thanks for the advice  

Am a new Sulcata owner and live in East Sussex, UK. Looking to build a outdoor enclosure for her. 
Am glad I clicked your post. Not too far away from me so all above (except hybernating) applies. 

I have a Dog kennel on order and will also be making a cold frame. I didn't know about slate being good at absorbing heat so will be adding some of that too.

Thanks again


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## LJL1982

This has been a huge reassurance that my ibera can go back into his hutch in the garden in the days...but I love the idea of a kennel with a light!


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## Lyn W

LJL1982 said:


> This has been a huge reassurance that my ibera can go back into his hutch in the garden in the days...but I love the idea of a kennel with a light!


I think JoesMum used to hibernate Joe for the winter, but because of our climate he had warm places to go on our cooler days when he was outside during the summer. Only the best for Joe!!


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