# Outdoor Sulcata Enclosure in the PNW, Suggestions Needed :)



## AndreavonW (Mar 2, 2015)

Hello all!
I have recently moved near Eugene, Oregon and am looking to set up an outdoor enclosure to last for the next 5 or so years. My sulcata is around 9-10 years old and her shell is about 16 inches long. Currently we are planning to add the enclosure to the back of the green house. The wall separating the enclosure from the greenhouse would not be insulated. The other three walls and the floor would have insulation between two sheets of plywood. The roof would be clear corrugated roof panels sealed around the edges. 

Do you think this will be enough to keep the enclosure temps outside of the heat source (which is a kane heat mat and a radiant heating panel in a 4' by 4' night box) at a regulated temp during the summer and winter? 

Summer nights often drop below the 60s and winter nights can get down to the 20s. I plan to have a UV bulb in the enclosure in the winter and red heat lamp that would stay on at all times outside of the night box. Any other suggestions to keep the enclosure warm during the winter? A friend suggested a mini-split unit heat pump but those are pretty dang expensive. 

Would the clear corrugated roof panels be a bad idea for any reason?

The winters are very damp here and I would want proper ventilation but don't want draftiness. Any suggestions there? 

The enclosure would open to an enclosed yard area for the warmer months but I would want to shut the enclosure off in the coldest winter days/nights.

I can give more specs on what we are planning but everything is preliminary so please contribute any two cents! I don't have actual measurements of the full enclosure, maybe about 6' x 8'? 

I tried searching through the forums for similar tank set-ups but didn't really find what I was hoping for. Also, it's safe to assume I understand the basics, i.e. heat gradient, etc.

Also, for your viewing pleasure, my two tortoises that grew up together!  







THANKS SO MUCH!!!


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## Jacqui (Mar 3, 2015)

Lol I love that cat! Good looking sulcata. We have several tortoise owners up in your area, including ones with sulcatas.

Some questions first... Will the greenhouse be heated which it will be butted up against? The panel will let light in, but will also let heat out.


Your enclosure though sounds very small. Can you make it a lot larger?


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## wellington (Mar 3, 2015)

I love the cat in the costume, not sure your cat is that thrilled though. Your tort looks very interested in the weird looking tortoise. Very nice sully. I agree with Jacqui, bigger would be better. Also the panels would work good when sunny out, but otherwise will lose heat. You may need to provide for heat to compensate.
@Cowboy_Ken and @Team Gomberg may be able to help here.


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## Momof4 (Mar 3, 2015)

AndreavonW said:


> Hello all!
> I have recently moved near Eugene, Oregon and am looking to set up an outdoor enclosure to last for the next 5 or so years. My sulcata is around 9-10 years old and her shell is about 16 inches long. Currently we are planning to add the enclosure to the back of the green house. The wall separating the enclosure from the greenhouse would not be insulated. The other three walls and the floor would have insulation between two sheets of plywood. The roof would be clear corrugated roof panels sealed around the edges.
> 
> Do you think this will be enough to keep the enclosure temps outside of the heat source (which is a kane heat mat and a radiant heating panel in a 4' by 4' night box) at a regulated temp during the summer and winter?
> ...



I can't help you, but wanted to tell you that your tort is very handsome and smooth!!!


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## Cowboy_Ken (Mar 3, 2015)

Here are a couple photos of my sulcata yard. That end of the barn in the first picture is 32' for scale. The heated house in the second picture is 4'x8'. I heat it with a radiant oil filled electro heater. I have no lights inside it. They live in this setup year round. Colder days they come out for multiple 10-15 minute grazing periods, heading back in to warm up. I'm up here east of Salem, about 1-1/2 hours north of you off I-5.


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## bouaboua (Mar 3, 2015)

You have "Two" very nice looking tortoise! ! !Hahaha.....

Welcome to the forum. Good to have you here!! This is the heated house I build for my sulcata. I have very small back yard. I also use oil fill electric heater with a temperature controller.


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## AndreavonW (Mar 3, 2015)

Wow everyone! Thank you for the quick responses, input, and compliments! I'm typing this from my phone and will respond individually when I get home from work tonight.  I did want to clarify that outdoor enclosure would be about 6x8 but the enclosed yard for her to roam would be much bigger. If 6x8 is too small, what would the recommended size be? (Perhaps there is better terminology for me to use for the indoor and outdoor portions?) I'll try to sketch up a few concepts and post them to see what y'all think! Thank you again and again!


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## Cowboy_Ken (Mar 3, 2015)

The heated house I've got is insulated with foil backed styrofoam insulation. I only blocked it with plywood on the inside 12" to protect it from the tortoises and protect the tortoises from it. It's white, and I'm sure they'd want to eat any they found. The roof is insulated as well. I've got a small compute fan blowing on the heater to move the air around inside. Works great! Oh, I've also got a humidifier inside to help keep the humidity up. You'd be surprised, even with our high environmental humidity, how quickly and thoroughly the heater will dry out the air in the heated house.


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## Jacqui (Mar 3, 2015)

How big can you make it for the nonbuilding part?


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## AndreavonW (Mar 3, 2015)

Jacqui said:


> Lol I love that cat! Good looking sulcata. We have several tortoise owners up in your area, including ones with sulcatas.
> 
> Some questions first... Will the greenhouse be heated which it will be butted up against? The panel will let light in, but will also let heat out.
> 
> ...




Hi! Thank you for the compliment! To answer your questions: The green house will not be heated. I can't really make the enclosed part much bigger as it is part of an existing green house that will be modified. There will be a substantial portion of the yard fenced in specifically for the tortoise so I'm not too worried about lawn space. Just keeping her happy in the heat and cold.


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## AndreavonW (Mar 3, 2015)

wellington said:


> I love the cat in the costume, not sure your cat is that thrilled though. Your tort looks very interested in the weird looking tortoise. Very nice sully. I agree with Jacqui, bigger would be better. Also the panels would work good when sunny out, but otherwise will lose heat. You may need to provide for heat to compensate.
> @Cowboy_Ken and @Team Gomberg may be able to help here.



Thank you for the compliment and thank you for your input as well as tagging others!


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## AndreavonW (Mar 3, 2015)

Momof4 said:


> I can't help you, but wanted to tell you that your tort is very handsome and smooth!!!



Thank you for taking the time to post such nice words!!


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## AndreavonW (Mar 3, 2015)

Cowboy_Ken said:


> The heated house I've got is insulated with foil backed styrofoam insulation. I only blocked it with plywood on the inside 12" to protect it from the tortoises and protect the tortoises from it. It's white, and I'm sure they'd want to eat any they found. The roof is insulated as well. I've got a small compute fan blowing on the heater to move the air around inside. Works great! Oh, I've also got a humidifier inside to help keep the humidity up. You'd be surprised, even with our high environmental humidity, how quickly and thoroughly the heater will dry out the air in the heated house.



For the smaller house, do you never close the door, even in the coldest of nights? 
12" is high enough for the plywood? I feel like my little lady is quite the climber... but maybe I am just paranoid! I was thinking of putting laminate down for flooring up to 12"+ as well. 
Those are some great tips for heating and adding the computer fan! 
Gosh! A humidifier, I can't imagine! Seems I can never keep things dry here!  
Do you think we could pull off using the clear panels for the roofing? Or is that just a terrible idea? It just would be aesthetically cohesive with the green house. Maybe in the winter I can put up something on the inside that is opaque to help keep the heat in... 
Do you also use heat mats or any other heat source (besides the radiant oil heater)? 
Thanks for all of your input!!


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## AndreavonW (Mar 3, 2015)

bouaboua said:


> You have "Two" very nice looking tortoise! ! !Hahaha.....
> 
> Welcome to the forum. Good to have you here!! This is the heated house I build for my sulcata. I have very small back yard. I also use oil fill electric heater with a temperature controller.



That is a nice set-up! Lots to be inspired by! Thank you for the compliments and your input!


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## Cowboy_Ken (Mar 3, 2015)

AndreavonW said:


> For the smaller house, do you never close the door, even in the coldest of nights?
> 12" is high enough for the plywood? I feel like my little lady is quite the climber... but maybe I am just paranoid! I was thinking of putting laminate down for flooring up to 12"+ as well.
> Gosh! A humidifier, I can't imagine!
> Do you think we could pull off using the clear panels for the roofing? Or is that just a terrible idea? It just would be aesthetically cohesive with the green house. Maybe in the winter I can put up something on the inside that is opaque to help keep the heat in...
> ...


The doors are closed at night mainly as protection from critters. Everything from coyotes to mice will find a tortoise sleeping to be good to gnaw on. 
12" plywood is in reference to the plywood covering the insulation on the inside of the heated house. The enclosure plywood walls are 16" tall. Laminate is a great idea. Just watch for the fumes from the glue. 
Yup. A whole room humidifier. 
For me, the issue with using clear panels for the roof, other than major heat loss, in the summer we will have some 100°days. The clear panels will focus that heat and you will loose control. 
I don't use underbelly heat sources for tortoises. My belief is tortoises get their heat from over head,(basking) and the environment they live in. Other folks see this differently than I, this is what works with mine. 
Keep asking questions.


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## Team Gomberg (Mar 3, 2015)

I'm in Medford...not too far south from you. I keep a leopard tortoise here and so far it's been easier than I thought. 

My guy has full range of the backyard. It's a standard size for a suburb. The yard is secure with fencing, has trees and bushes for cover, a water dish and he grazes on the lawn. 
He also has a heated tort house. I built one similar to Kens.. and

smaller since its for a single leopard. It's 4x2 and 2ft tall. It's fully insulated with 1.5 rigid foam insulation and heated by a mini oil filled radiator on a thermostat. It works wonderfully! Keeps him toasty warm even on our cold days and at night. I have no lights inside and the door is closed and locked each night. 
I open the door each morning (regardless of the weather) and most days he comes out. Even on cold days, he'll come out for a short while to graze.
I don't have many pictures of the heated house but I'll try to get you more. I'd recommend you build an insulated house, too. It's awesome  and @Tom put together a great step by step building thread.

Hope this helps...


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## Cowboy_Ken (Mar 4, 2015)

AndreavonW said:


> Gosh! A humidifier, I can't imagine! Seems I can never keep things dry here!


A for instance; this morning outdoor humidity was 78%. I hadn't filled the humidifier up as planned yesterday so in the heated house it was only 19%! Wayyyy too low for our tortoises to have full time.


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## Team Gomberg (Mar 4, 2015)

I added the damp dirt (technically it's coco coir) to the inside of my house so it stays nice and humid inside. I don't aim for high humidity, a moderate level of 60% is fine since I no longer battle the desiccating effects of light bulbs. Once the RH gets to 50% I add a bunch of warm water and stir it with my hands..did it today actually. The humidity will spike up into the high 80s possibly low 90s for that first day or 2 then hover in the 60-70 range for a week or 2.

Even though it's humid outside, they are inside that tort house and without either a humidifier, tubs of water or damp substrate..it'll be much drier in there from the heat source.


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## AndreavonW (Mar 7, 2015)

Team Gomberg said:


> I'm in Medford...not too far south from you. I keep a leopard tortoise here and so far it's been easier than I thought.
> 
> My guy has full range of the backyard. It's a standard size for a suburb. The yard is secure with fencing, has trees and bushes for cover, a water dish and he grazes on the lawn.
> He also has a heated tort house. I built one similar to Kens.. and



Thank you so much for your input! It's nice to hear it will end up easier than I'm making it out to be!  I'm excited to put all this good information to use! We are in the middle of moving right now so she'll have a temporary indoor setup in our garage for a little while yet.


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## AndreavonW (Mar 7, 2015)

Cowboy_Ken said:


> A for instance; this morning outdoor humidity was 78%. I hadn't filled the humidifier up as planned yesterday so in the heated house it was only 19%! Wayyyy too low for our tortoises to have full time.



Thanks again for all your help! And the follow up with the humidity example! It really helps put things into perspective!


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## AndreavonW (Mar 7, 2015)

Team Gomberg said:


> I added the damp dirt (technically it's coco coir) to the inside of my house so it stays nice and humid inside. I don't aim for high humidity, a moderate level of 60% is fine since I no longer battle the desiccating effects of light bulbs. Once the RH gets to 50% I add a bunch of warm water and stir it with my hands..did it today actually. The humidity will spike up into the high 80s possibly low 90s for that first day or 2 then hover in the 60-70 range for a week or 2.
> 
> Even though it's humid outside, they are inside that tort house and without either a humidifier, tubs of water or damp substrate..it'll be much drier in there from the heat source.



Great information! We used coco coir for a while and it seemed impossible to keep moist in his winter pen in the basement. It makes so much sense that without the overhead lighting it will retain moisture better, I hadn't really thought of that for his outdoor pen! Do you use a humidifier as well or tubs of water? I'd like this enclosure to be as energy efficient as possible but without compromise to the tortoise's health and happiness.


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## Team Gomberg (Mar 7, 2015)

no humidifier and no tubs of water. I just add water the coco coir about once a week..maybe 2 and mix it up with my hands. Pretty easy


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## AndreavonW (Mar 7, 2015)

Nice!! Thanks!


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## Team Gomberg (Mar 7, 2015)

Here are some photos for ya.. A picture really is worth 1000 words 

The fully insulated, heated tort house right next to an outlet for power and under my covered patio




I close and lock his door each night....his pots will have plants in them come spring  oh and notice the overlapping vinyl flaps in the doorway, it helps keep heat in when the door is open. 






Here's the inside..



I have weather stripping along the top walls which keeps heat in, too.
You can see the oil filled heater on one side and the thermostat on the wall. The probe hangs near my digital thermostat/hydrometer. 
Also, I lined the bottom and 6"up the walls with vinyl flooring to prevent mold...since the damp substrate isn't touching the wood.

Hope this helps!


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