# !!SICK BABY!!



## TooCoo1TherT (Feb 16, 2009)

I have 2 baby Desert Tortoises about 8 months old and yesterday morning when I went to clean their tank I noticed one of the babies was sort of gagging. Then when I looked closer I realized he had bubbles coming out of his nose. I have them in a 10 gal glass aquarium on paper towels with a heat lamp and I've had them like that since I got them. I feed mainly Romaine Lettuce and other assorted vegetables and fruits dusted with rep-cal pure calcium. 

He was fine yesterday and ate and good and I dont know how he could've got sick. 

He is the bigger of the 2 and the one I thought was always the healthiest. 

Any advice or tips or anything would be greatly appreciated.

I just fed him and he ate so thats a good sign right??
Plus he has no more bubbles coming out of his nose.


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## Crazy1 (Feb 16, 2009)

Hi TooCoo1TherT, welcome to the forum. 
We know little of your set up so if you can provide pics it would help. What are the temps in your enclosure? The humidity? How long have your had your DT hatchlings? Do you have a UV Bulb or are you providing them sunlight time daily? Did your hatchling just finish a soaking or drinking water when you saw the bubble? Tortoises don't show signs of illness usually until they are really getting sick. 

If your Hatchling had bubbles coming out of his nose and seemed to be gagging, I would be calling the vet. This could be signs that your hatchling has a URI (upper respiratory infection) or Pneumonia. Ã¢â‚¬ËœDisease often results from opportunistic pathogens or parasites which take advantage of tortoises weakened by stress, malnutrition, or improper physical environmentÃ¢â‚¬â„¢(quote from ASDM TORTOISE ADOPTION PROGRAM). I just gotten a tort that was eating fine, seemed to be energentic and all, but I noticed some bubbles comeing from his nose. I took him to the vet to find he had Pneumonia and without the antibiotic treatment would have more than likely died. URI or Pneumonia can be a nasty thing and take your hatchlings quickly. If one has it I would take both to the vet and treat them both as they are housed together.

Now for his diet. 
Romaine lettuce is not the best thing as a staple for any tort as it has a low nutritional value. I would suggest you get some spring mix and take out the spinach for now. Fruit is not the best thing to feed a growing tort it contains high amounts of sugar. Switch that to flowers instead of fruit. I would bump up their heat about 5 degrees F. Here is a site regarding hatchling care. http://www.tortoise.org/general/descare.html then scroll down to hatchling care. I would leave out the alfalfa & broccoli and use kale & romaine in moderation. There is a list of foods for them here http://tortoiseforum.org/thread-5823.html


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## Maggie Cummings (Feb 16, 2009)

Hi and welcome to the forum...I have spent years head-starting Gopherus agassizii successfully, I am glad you found us and I hope I can help you... Please understand that I mean no disrespect to you...you are lucky those babies are still alive. You are talking about my very favorite species, they are VERY fragile as babies...so here goes...they need a substrate, eco earth and sand is good, orchid bark is best, and you should dampen the substrate to create some humidity... paper towels are bad bad bad. Damp substrate creates humidity for them, humidity helps moisten their little lungs, and helps to preventing pyramiding. Humidity is an absolute necessity. Often bubbles mean the substrate is too dry, often they mean an upper respiratory infection. What do you mean a heat lamp? Do you have a UVB bulb for them? They need a UVB bulb and a bulb to keep them warm at night. You can't create a good variance in temperature in an aquarium. They need a basking spot of 95 degrees and a cool end of 75 degrees, you can't achieve that in a 10 gallon aquarium. You actually have them on slow cook inside a 10 gallon aquarium. How often do you soak them? In a 10 gallon aquarium they need to be soaked everyday. If you can you should move them into a rubbermaid tub, or take a bookcase remove the shelves and lay it on it's back...instant tort table. You should not feed them veggies or especially no fruit. Their kidneys and liver and pancreas can't process sugar the way ours can. Fruit is very bad for them, they shouldn't be given any friut. The tuna of a cactus is a good treat for them. Romaine lettuce has almost no nutrition, it's all water. You can get packaged Spring Mix in the produce section at the grocery store and then you'd want to add some broad leaf dark green stuff...endive, dandelion, kale, collard, mustard greens, etc. No veggies no fruit...I know this is winter so you can't get the cactus and grasses that they should be eating. So what I suggest to feed is just something to get you thru the winter, Spring Mix has good nutrition...Can you post pictures of the animals and your set-up? We really like to see pictures... . I hope I haven't missed anything, please continue to ask questions...I will give you a couple of links to help out. I am very glad you came here and I hope I can be of some help to you...

http://www.chelonia.org/Articles/Gagassiziicare.htm

http://www.tortoise.org/general/descare.html


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## Crazy1 (Feb 16, 2009)

Hey Maggie, would you please explain what the tuna of a cactus is . TooCoo1TherT if you have a large State Brothers near you they often carry cactus both the pads and bags already de-spined and cut. Also Maggie is definitely passionate about her favorite little ones and gives excellent advice, I would definitely follow.


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## Yvonne G (Feb 16, 2009)

Last I heard, Maggie was sacked out on the couch taking a nap with her 20lb cat, Bubba. So I'll tell you what the Tuna of an opuntia cactus is. Its the big red fruit that develops after the plant blooms. Its quite juicy and the tortoises really go for it.

Yvonne


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## Maggie Cummings (Feb 16, 2009)

Jeez!!! How embarrassing that she has to tell everyone I have a lazy cat! This is him...








And this is what the tuna looks like when you give it to a Sulcata BEFORE you grab the camera...


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## Crazy1 (Feb 16, 2009)

emysemys said:


> Last I heard, Maggie was sacked out on the couch taking a nap with her 20lb cat, Bubba. So I'll tell you what the Tuna of an opuntia cactus is. Its the big red fruit that develops after the plant blooms. Its quite juicy and the tortoises really go for it.
> 
> Yvonne



Thanks Yvonne, I grew up calling it cactus apple or cactus pear or cactus fruit, in english anyway. But I had never heard of it called tuna of cactus. I kinda like that. Awh, to be snuggled up with a big kitty on this cold wet day would be great. Lucky Maggie. 



maggie3fan said:


> Jeez!!! How embarrassing that she has to tell everyone I have a lazy cat!



See Yvonne we can't even talk about her when we think she's sleeping. 
Maggie, I thought you were napping 
Now I'm not sure Bubba would like that pic spread all over the net 
And Bob is too cute with cactus tuna all over his face.
By the way Bubba looks like a good one to snuggle with.


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## sakkakth (Feb 19, 2009)

Whoa... Not to hijack but I've seen shark attacks look less viscous!


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## tortelini (Feb 19, 2009)

So sorry to hear about your baby being sick! My only advise is to take Maggie's!!  

Thanks everyone for my morning laugh!!


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## Maggie Cummings (Feb 19, 2009)

sakkakth said:


> Whoa... Not to hijack but I've seen shark attacks look less viscous!



OMG!!! Too funny...that's just really clever...


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## Yvonne G (Feb 19, 2009)

sakkakth said:


> Whoa... Not to hijack but I've seen shark attacks look less viscous!



 LOL!!! Took me several seconds to see those sharp teeth! Very funny!!!

Yvonne


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