# Sucaltas Fighting



## mandacs08 (Jun 29, 2015)

Hi and Hello There!

I work at a resort and in the past we had three adult male sucaltas who lived quite harmoniously over the years. Last winter, we lost two due to the cold and a possible snake bite; so we just had the one. (His name is O'Riley) Our GM's wanted to get another tortoise so that the big guy isn't alone, and we figured that since O'Riley had lived well with other males in the past it would all be fine.

After a long search, we finally found another tortoise. Slightly smaller, with a really great shell, I might add. We got him yesterday (Sunday), and since then, we've had to break up several fights between the two. However, it's actually the smaller one that's being aggressive towards O'Riley. Every time, O'Riley is clearly trying to get away and I don't want to cause anymore anxiety for the poor guy who clearly doesn't understand what's going on. I've been looking at a bunch of different threads and it says to separate them, but I'm just curious to know if everything will calm down and we just need to wait all this out?


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## G-stars (Jun 29, 2015)

Separate them immediately before another one dies. No they won't get used to each other and stop.


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## DawnH (Jun 29, 2015)

If you "wait it out" you are going to have a dead sulcata. Separate them immediately. They do NOT do well in pairs. Plus the new one should have been separated in a quarantine area to make sure he truly is healthy before being introduced to your sulcata. Regardless, you need to plan on two separate enclosures for these two.


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## JoesMum (Jun 29, 2015)

I agree. Separate immediately. You may well gave to accept that this separation is permanent. Failure to do so is likely to result in the illness and possible death of one or more of them. 

Torts are solitary creatures. Sharing territory does not come naturally and, as you have discovered, can often go badly wrong. Sullies have a bit of a reputation for this; they are very strong willed and it only gets worse.


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## mandacs08 (Jun 29, 2015)

I'm sorry if I seem very naive about all of this, as well as for the above post. I've never personally owned tortoises, so this is all new to me. If they're not good in pairs, then how did the three adults get along so well?

We've gone ahead and separated them for the time being.


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## Jodie (Jun 29, 2015)

It is rare that males do ok. A group of 3 or more is far more likely to work than a pair. Introducing new ones into an existing territory is bound to fail. Sulcatas are territorial. If you had 3 and put them into a new enclosure that was not ones previous territory it might work. 
Does that make sense? Tortoises do not get lonely. They are solitary. It is very unlikely you will be able to rebuild a group.


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## JoesMum (Jun 29, 2015)

mandacs08 said:


> I'm sorry if I seem very naive about all of this, as well as for the above post. I've never personally owned tortoises, so this is all new to me. If they're not good in pairs, then how did the three adults get along so well?
> 
> We've gone ahead and separated them for the time being.


Three adults may appear to 'get along' for a long time, but the reality is that what you were seeing was no physical violence. Torts are expert at the mental stuff and they will have been doing that along while before the physical fights broke out. 

Sometimes the mental stuff alone is enough to send the 'loser' into a downward spiral. The tort that seems less outgoing, the one that never eats as much, the way they apparently cosey up to one another... that's a dominant tort exerting it's right to territory over a subordinate one. If the subordinate decides to stand up for itself then the fights break out.

It happens all too often. It's completely normal and Sullies can be amongst the most brutal. They don't need, want or particularly like company. In the wild they roam large distances, meet up to mate and move on. Captivity cannot give them the space such a large, territitorial tort needs to live comfortably in a group.


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## Tidgy's Dad (Jun 29, 2015)

Separate them.
Even if they do not kill each other, they are both going to be miserable.


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## dmmj (Jun 29, 2015)

Sadly once the fighting starts, it does not stop. For the time being will have to be forever


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## Tom (Jun 29, 2015)

mandacs08 said:


> I'm sorry if I seem very naive about all of this, as well as for the above post. I've never personally owned tortoises, so this is all new to me. If they're not good in pairs, then how did the three adults get along so well?
> 
> We've gone ahead and separated them for the time being.



Most likely they were not getting along and you guys just didn't realize it. There does not have to be overt ramming, chasing and biting for there to be behavioral unrest. We deal with this constantly here on the forum. Most people just do not recognize tortoise aggression. Did your 3 tortoises used to cuddle? Did they ever sleep face to face? There are all sorts of signs that go unnoticed by most people. The chronic stress can leave them more susceptible to disease and parasites.

Another possibility is that you didn't have three males. They are often misidentified. Without some pics, I couldn't tell you for sure what you had. If you had three females, they likely would have gotten along just fine. Throw in a male in late spring, and oh yeah, he's going to chase a female. Most males will battle to the death. Its unusual for a larger male to run away.

I'd like to address how two of your three were lost to cold. Did the power go out in their heated shelter? How did the one survive when the others didn't? So sad... Sorry for your loss there. That must have been a tough day for you guys.


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## Tom (Jun 29, 2015)

Here is a thread with more explanation:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/pairs.34837/


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