# Why are baby tortoises hard to keep?



## animalkeeper (May 28, 2011)

Just curious why it is so hard to keep a baby tortoise?


----------



## Eweezyfosheezy (May 28, 2011)

Well it depends on the species of tortoise. But most babies really aren't that hard to take care of at all given the right setup. Any type of tortoise you are specifically talking about?


----------



## Neal (May 28, 2011)

Depends on what you consider hard. I think they are hard in the sense that they require a lot of work and time as compared to an older tortoise. Being younger and smaller makes them more susceptible to environmental conditions and poor husbandry than an older tortoise I think. So, monitoring the tortoises surroundings and giving them the right type of care might be difficult for some people to handle.

Time is my biggest problem. Finding the time to feed them, soak them, clean up their cages. It helps to develop routines and stick with them.


----------



## animalkeeper (May 28, 2011)

Eweezyfosheezy said:


> Well it depends on the species of tortoise. But most babies really aren't that hard to take care of at all given the right setup. Any type of tortoise you are specifically talking about?



Well I am wanting a greek but people on here recommend getting one older but I don't really understand what the difference in care is that is so hard?


----------



## Eweezyfosheezy (May 28, 2011)

Well I would just suggest that if you want to keep something outside all the time I would get something older but if you wouldnt mind keeping it inside for a couple years then that is fine too.


----------



## onarock (May 28, 2011)

Hard, more like time consuming. 

Historically I think a couple of things have played a part in poor husbandry for hatclings. 
1. People dont really see many of them in the wild, so their care is up to speculation.
2. They look like adults, so you can keep them like adults.

I think if you can get them into a routine, it makes caring for them easier.


----------



## Kristina (May 28, 2011)

Sometimes, even if you do everything right, babies die anyway. I have seen it countless times and it has happened to me. In the wild it is called natural selection. In captivity, it is heartbreaking to watch a hatchling fail. If you get an older tortoise, you know that it is already healthy and established. It is ultimately your decision to get what you want, but personally I don't think that any first time tortoise owner should ever get a baby. There is a lot that goes into tortoise care that comes from experience.


----------



## Watermelon (May 28, 2011)

I have a 9 month old baby Hermann and I don't think shes hard to keep


----------



## tortoisenerd (May 28, 2011)

I 100% agree with Kristina. I regret getting a hatchling, even though everything turned out great. I worried quite a bit about was I doing everything correct, would he flip over while I was at work, etc. I think they aren't much more difficult to keep, but they are more likely to fail with the same care than an adult. As much research as a new tort owner does, you will make some mistakes...adults are more forgiving. I also believe some hatchlings are meant to fail, whether the breeder kept them too dry, or their genetics...so as a new owner, it can be so heartbreaking. I'm probably skewed as I've read so many stories of people getting a hatchling and it dying soon after. We rarely hear that with juveniles or adults, even with new owners.


----------



## Marty333 (May 28, 2011)

I really think you should get an older tortoise to start out with. My first tortoise was a Sulcata hatchling and he died only after a month of having him. I tried everything but sadly it just wasn't meant to be  Now I have a 4 year old redfoot who is just a blast to take care of and I don't have to worry about failure to thrive syndrome. Hatchlings are cute but so are juvis and adults


----------



## Tim/Robin (May 29, 2011)

Do your research about their care prior to getting one. Set them up correctly and care for them daily. It really is not hard. They are programmed for survival on their own. It is no different with adults.


----------



## GBtortoises (May 29, 2011)

I've never found baby tortoises any more difficult to keep than adults. The most important difference to realize between the two is body mass. Babies are smaller, with much less body mass than adults. Under the same captive conditions, babies can dehydrate much, much quicker. Poor quality diet will affect them quicker also because they don't have the stored energy that adults do. Other than those two considerations there really is no difference. But also because of those important considerations, a yearling to adult size tortoise might be a better choice for some people, depending upon their resources and experience level.

I think that the idea of baby tortoises being difficult to raise comes from the human thought train of "it's a baby, it's helpless and fragile". This doesn't apply in the reptile world where babies must know how to fend for themselves immediately upon hatching from an egg. They are for the most part, a small copy of their parents from day one.


----------



## Terry Allan Hall (May 29, 2011)

Kristina said:


> *Sometimes, even if you do everything right, babies die anyway. I have seen it countless times and it has happened to me. In the wild it is called natural selection. In captivity, it is heartbreaking to watch a hatchling fail. If you get an older tortoise, you know that it is already healthy and established*. It is ultimately your decision to get what you want, but personally I don't think that any first time tortoise owner should ever get a baby. There is a lot that goes into tortoise care that comes from experience.



^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^​
What Kristina said.


----------



## ALDABRAMAN (May 29, 2011)

Terry Allan Hall said:


> Kristina said:
> 
> 
> > *Sometimes, even if you do everything right, babies die anyway. I have seen it countless times and it has happened to me. In the wild it is called natural selection. In captivity, it is heartbreaking to watch a hatchling fail. If you get an older tortoise, you know that it is already healthy and established*. It is ultimately your decision to get what you want, but personally I don't think that any first time tortoise owner should ever get a baby. There is a lot that goes into tortoise care that comes from experience.
> ...



Well said!


----------



## DeanS (May 29, 2011)

Kristina said:


> Sometimes, even if you do everything right, babies die anyway. I have seen it countless times and it has happened to me. In the wild it is called natural selection. In captivity, it is heartbreaking to watch a hatchling fail. If you get an older tortoise, you know that it is already healthy and established. It is ultimately your decision to get what you want, but personally I don't think that any first time tortoise owner should ever get a baby. There is a lot that goes into tortoise care that comes from experience.



Now...that's *Politically Correct* at its finest...well put Kristina!

The facts come down to two things...husbandry and knowledge. There are so many breeders, and most of them are mass-producing for pet stores, etc. On top of that, they are OLD SCHOOL...meaning that they aren't neccesarily doing things the right way...at least as it pertains to the latest strides in care. Then there is the novice keeper...love the animals, love the idea of raising the animals from neonatal stage on...but haven't the foggiest notion of what to do or how to do it. They acquire the animal and attempt to learn as they go...this simply won't do...and is actually quite irresponsible. Take the time to do your research first. There will always be animals available. Get their habitat set-up...look into availability of food items, etc...then when you know what you're doing...acquire the animal. You'll be much better off in the long run! And so will your pet.


----------



## Yvonne G (May 29, 2011)

Hi animalkeeper:

(did we ever learn your name?)

The thing is, most hatchlings are bought by new keepers with no experience. After you've taken care of a tortoise for a time, there are little things that you just "know" about the care. Nothing that we can tell you, just kind of instinct. A person who has taken care of an older tortoise, just seems to instinctually know what to look for trouble-wise. You would know by the feel that your baby is too light and probably dehydrated. Stuff like that.

We're not saying that you CAN"T do it, just that you would have better luck starting with an older-than-hatchling. Then when you get a little experience under your belt, you can try the hatchling.

If you DO decide to get a hatchling, be sure to follow the care instructions you've been given to the letter.


----------



## Madkins007 (May 29, 2011)

A lot of people think that reptile pets are generally as easy as something like a goldfish. Get a tank, add some stuff on the bottom, toss in some food from a storebought jar, and you are done. 

The reality is that MOST reptile pets, for MOST people are a lot harder than that. We generally need to provide every aspect of environment in a place that is almost always a lot different than their home. Temp, humidity, hides, shade, light- controlling all of these within the necessary parameters is not really hard, but it is also not easy- or cheap.

Then there is the diet. Most tortoises can eat a pretty wide variety of wild foods in their home ranges, but most of that stuff is not easily available for most of us, so we have to try to find a way to offer the right levels of calories, calcium, phosphorous, iron, other minerals, vitamins, fiber, etc. Some packaged mixes come close, but most are designed to supplement real foods.

The MOST SUCCESSFUL tortoise keepers and breeders in the US are in the southern US- the southeast and Hawaii for the humidity lovers, and the southwest for the more arid climate species. This is because they can keep their animals outside in relatively natural conditions, grow relatively natural foods, and so on- their home location is doing about 75% of the work! Those of us in the cooler climes struggle a lot more with the basics every day.

Then, after all this, your tortoise will usually hide from you. Wild tortoises sleep or hide about 60-75% of the day. It takes kind of a special mindset to go through all this work for a pet you really cannot cuddle much and will not see often.

OK, now take ALL OF THIS and double it. That is what it is like for a baby tortoises. They are more delicate and more sensitive in every way. Adults can usually survive big changes in temps or food, but babies often cannot. Adults will often come out to greet you when you bring food, babies often hide for their lives as you approach.

Babies are not impossible, just not a good age to learn what to do on. We see babies getting sick and dying all the time and we often have no idea why. Juvenile and adult torts are just so much more forgiving.


----------



## Kristina (May 29, 2011)

Madkins007 said:


> A lot of people think that reptile pets are generally as easy as something like a goldfish. Get a tank, add some stuff on the bottom, toss in some food from a storebought jar, and you are done.



The truth is that not even goldfish are that simple. Sure, you might keep one for a year, two, maybe three like that, but they will never live their potential 25+ years of age, or potential full size.

Sorry, but I hate when people say goldfish are easy. I know for sure that they don't have a 15" long fantail that is 6 years old, or a 12" long one that is 10 years old. I on the other hand, do.


----------



## Madkins007 (May 29, 2011)

Kristina said:


> Madkins007 said:
> 
> 
> > A lot of people think that reptile pets are generally as easy as something like a goldfish. Get a tank, add some stuff on the bottom, toss in some food from a storebought jar, and you are done.
> ...


LOL! I KNEW I was going to hit on this. Every animal I have researched the care on has always turned out to be harder than I thought, and the 'typical' way definitely shortens the lifespan.

In the end, I used goldfish as a form of verbal shorthand, and 'cheated'- but hopefully the intent still comes through.


----------



## animalkeeper (May 29, 2011)

I am going to get an adult to start with so I can get used to tortoise care and maybe eventually get a baby.

Also my name is Alyx and I live in KY.


----------



## Kristina (May 29, 2011)

Madkins007 said:


> Kristina said:
> 
> 
> > Madkins007 said:
> ...



Just figures too that it would be me that nailed you to the wall on that one, doesn't it? LOL 



animalkeeper said:


> I am going to get an adult to start with so I can get used to tortoise care and maybe eventually get a baby.
> 
> Also my name is Alyx and I live in KY.



Nice to meet you Alyx. That sounds like a fantastic plan to me.


----------



## onarock (May 29, 2011)

Well said Mark. I always look back at a conversation I had with a well known Testudo breeder in the San Diego area that told me "People think Im special because I produce all these tortoises, but the truth is I just picked the right species for my location and thats it, nothing special"

Some people on the forums like to discount or dismiss the natural history side of tortoises stating things like "I dont care what some pre-doctorate field observer has to say about tortoises". The truth is that, if your going to keep tortosies out of their natural habitat or in a place that is nothing like their natural habitat, then you need to know what their natural habitat is like, so you can try and provide as much of their natural habitat as possible.



Madkins007 said:


> A lot of people think that reptile pets are generally as easy as something like a goldfish. Get a tank, add some stuff on the bottom, toss in some food from a storebought jar, and you are done.
> 
> The reality is that MOST reptile pets, for MOST people are a lot harder than that. We generally need to provide every aspect of environment in a place that is almost always a lot different than their home. Temp, humidity, hides, shade, light- controlling all of these within the necessary parameters is not really hard, but it is also not easy- or cheap.
> 
> ...


----------



## Madkins007 (May 29, 2011)

Onarock- I stuck Hawaii on the list of locations just for you! 

You know- I'd be willing to bet you could almost make a map- if you have THIS type of box turtles near you, THIS species of tortoise might be your best choice.

Florida or Gulf Coast- Red-foots and other forest species
Non-freezing Ornate range- Sulcata, etc.
Three-toe and Ornate- Mediterranean to the south, Russian to the north

Kristina- Yeah, if I were going to guess who would be most likely to catch me on the goldfish thing, it woulda been you!


----------



## evlinLoutries (May 30, 2011)

Not all baby tortoise are hard to keep, it is still depend to your treatment and the tortoise species too..
But after taking more than 1 tortoise, I had no problem with them,


----------



## John (May 30, 2011)

Well Mark and Paul pretty much nailed this one, nothing else to be said but excellent posts guys.


----------



## dmarcus (May 30, 2011)

animalkeeper said:


> I am going to get an adult to start with so I can get used to tortoise care and maybe eventually get a baby.
> 
> Also my name is Alyx and I live in KY.



Great choice Alyx and good luck with what ever type of tort you decided to get, we will all be here to help..


----------



## muddoc (May 31, 2011)

I don't have much to add, but I did want to say that there has been some great advice, and some great outlooks, posted in this thread.


----------



## SavannanSpike (May 31, 2011)

I got my hatchling and I had no clue what I was doing! I came here to this site and realized how hard it is gonna be to care for my new lil guy! It was really hard to get used to what I needed to do and getting the RIGHT information! I love my sulcata hachling! But it has deff been a lot harder then what my local pet store had said! Never listen them! Like everyone has said it's deff hard work but if you don't mind, get one.. Read up on the different kinds and what they need to live and what you can afford. I had no clue how much lights were until I had to get them!  but I can't wait till my lil guy gets big! Good luck


----------



## Terry Allan Hall (May 31, 2011)

animalkeeper said:


> I am going to get an adult to start with so I can get used to tortoise care and maybe eventually get a baby.
> 
> Also my name is Alyx and I live in KY.



Good plan, Alyx! 

BTW, there some interesting bargain available on the Internet right now...will PM you a few worth considering.


----------

