# My son has a science project.....



## galvinkaos (Mar 15, 2009)

Okay, my 12 year old son has a science project he has to do on the 8 levels of classification of an organism, not a dog, cat or human. He (of course) picked the Desert Tortoise. Anyone with any input would be appreciated. A good grade is very necessary in science. He has to do a poster board and a 3D display (okay to bring in a live display). We have the 3D display covered. But info would be good. He, of course, has found conflicting info on the internet, including for the class and order. 

Thank you in advance, 

Dawna and Lee


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## Oogie (Mar 16, 2009)

Excellent choice he made! Which DT does he plan to study?

On behalf of Oogie...

California/Mojave Desert Tortoise: gopherus agassizii
Class: reptilia/sauropsida (sauropsida became a later classification to denote more specific traits, but reptilia remains the most popular "class" name)
Order: testudinidae

Good info links:
http://www.mojavenp.org/Gopherus_agassizii.htm Great pics; your son is also welcome to use the pics I posted of Oogie if he wants to show one in captivity.
http://www.fws.gov/Nevada/desert_tortoise/dt_life.html
http://www.fs.fed.us/database/feis/animals/reptile/goag/all.html
http://www.desertusa.com/june96/du_tort.html

Re: captive care of a DT
http://www.sdturtle.org/public documents/CALIF DESERT TEXAS TORTOISE CARE_SHEET.htm 
http://www.tortoise.org/general/descare.html

Best of luck to your son!


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## galvinkaos (Mar 16, 2009)

Of course he picked the CA DT. Otherwise the kids might have gotten a little upset with him.  He needs info mainly on distinctive features, habitat, diet and predators. He looked at the websites I had found during my research and as I said he found lots of conflicts. You answered one about the class/order.

Thanks,

Dawna

Oh and thanks for the other links. He is going to look at those too.


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## Oogie (Mar 16, 2009)

post all the conflicting stuff and i'm sure we'll all have fun figuring them out LOL

i've only ever had a DT and am still extremely new to it...so, it would be hard to point out distinguishing characteristics. one thing i have noted is (but it could be common in other torts) that the back end of the carapace curves downward and almost under (forcing to tale to stick out sideways)...i haven't seen this on pics of other torts. after seeing oogie burrow into a pot on it's side, i noticed that NO fleshy body parts were visible...so i assume this is a protective characteristic???

another interesting thing (but not a distinguishing characteristic)...i found out that california fish & game have a hard time telling the difference between hatchling cali DT's and sulcata's when they are the same size if the sulcata's spurs are under-developed.

i've also heard that it's more common for DT's to get bladder stones than other types of torts...but don't quote me on that!

i think he'll find tons of info on the other stuff he needs.



galvinkaos said:


> Of course he picked the CA DT. Otherwise the kids might have gotten a little upset with him.  He needs info mainly on distinctive features, habitat, diet and predators. He looked at the websites I had found during my research and as I said he found lots of conflicts. You answered one about the class/order.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> ...


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## Candy (Mar 16, 2009)

Dawna my 11 year old just completed his science project this week it was on under water volcanos. Now if I let him read what your son is doing I think he's going to be jealous. Just to think he could have taken Dale to school to show him off.  Good luck with his project it sounds like a good one. Candy


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## chelonologist (Mar 16, 2009)

Actually the Order is Testudines, and the Family is Testudinidae. 



Oogie said:


> Excellent choice he made! Which DT does he plan to study?
> 
> On behalf of Oogie...
> 
> ...


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## egyptiandan (Mar 16, 2009)

another interesting thing (but not a distinguishing characteristic)...i found out that california fish & game have a hard time telling the difference between hatchling cali DT's and sulcata's when they are the same size if the sulcata's spurs are under-developed.
I find this highly disturbing Melissa 
It is extremely easy to tell the difference between a Desert tortoise and a Sulcata of any size. A Desert tortoise has a nuchal scute (a large marginal scute just above the head). A sulcata has no nuchal scute.

Danny


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## Laura (Mar 16, 2009)

Predators.......MAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!! he should concentrate and that part of the Education...


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## nrfitchett4 (Mar 16, 2009)

interesting project. should be fun for him. Sorry, no help on the order/genus. I quit paying attention to that stuff after college bio and genetics.


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## Oogie (Mar 16, 2009)

danny--
yea...i was surprised, as well. although i think the problem was mainly in comparing them in photographs...they said they needed a biologist to make a proper ID.



egyptiandan said:


> I find this highly disturbing Melissa
> It is extremely easy to tell the difference between a Desert tortoise and a Sulcata of any size. A Desert tortoise has a nuchal scute (a large marginal scute just above the head). A sulcata has no nuchal scute.
> 
> Danny


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## galvinkaos (Mar 16, 2009)

Candy said:


> Dawna my 11 year old just completed his science project this week it was on under water volcanos. Now if I let him read what your son is doing I think he's going to be jealous. Just to think he could have taken Dale to school to show him off.  Good luck with his project it sounds like a good one. Candy



Lee wanted to know if we could bring all 4 to school. I said no 1 maybe 2 and I will bring them. The new kids won't be ready in 2 weeks for an adventure at junior high. Doris and Fred are really cool, they "go with the flow" and don't seem phased by anything. I change their enclosure and they just do a lap or 2 to see what is different and then go back to the usual routine.

Tell him he has an on going science project. Keep a diary of sizes/weights/milestones, etc and he has all the info ready for his project. 

Thanks for all the posts. He (and I) are having fun with it.

Dawna


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## Crazy1 (Mar 16, 2009)

Dawna and Lee, here is what I have on them. 
Here are some links that are easy to scan for info on CA DT
http://www.chelonia.org/Articles/Gagassiziicare.htm
http://www.desertusa.com/june96/du_tort.html
http://www.tortoise-tracks.org/gopherus.html
http://www.enchantedlearning.com/subjects/turtle/Destortprintout.shtml Picture 

Losses of DT are due to vandalism, to raven predation, disease, collections for pets (now illegal), and habitat degradation. Habitat has been lost or damaged from mining, livestock grazing, development of desert lands for agriculture, sub-divisions, high-ways, industrial uses and off-road vehicle use.

Predators include: Ravens, gila monsters, kit foxes, badgers, roadrunners, coyotes, and fire ants are all natural predators of the desert tortoise. They prey on eggs, juveniles, which are 2-3 inches long with a thin, delicate shell, or in some cases adults

Threats to the DT population http://www.fws.gov/nevada/desert_tortoise/dt_threats.html and http://www.nps.gov/archive/moja/planning/tort.htm
An excerpt from link above;
In 1989, information on high mortality rates and the presence of an upper respiratory tract disease in populations of the desert tortoise resulted in a temporary emergency listing as endangered. In 1990, scientists determined that other threats existed such as losing habitat to development, the deteriorating quality of its habitat, and ravens killing young tortoises. This determination resulted in listing the desert tortoise as threatened.
Tortoises are directly & indirectly impacted by natural as well as human-caused activities. These threats include disease, predation, expanding development, off-highway vehicles, invasion of non-native grasses and weeds, fire, collection, poachers, sheep & cattle grazing, mining, and drought. At this point, there is not one threat that seems to impact tortoises more than another. It is, rather, an accumulation of threats that are taking a toll.

Here is the listing as far as scientific classification from two different listings. 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desert_Tortoise

Kingdom:	Animalia
Phylum:	Chordata
Class:	Sauropsida
Order:	Testudines
Suborder: Cryptodira
Superfamily: Testudinoidea
Family:	Testudinidae
Genus:	Gopherus
Species:	G. agassizii

Binomial name
Gopherus agassizii
Cooper, 1863

http://www.chelonia.org/Turtle_Taxonomy.htm
Kingdom	Animalia
Phylum	Chordata
Class	Reptilia
Subclass	Anapsida
Order	Testudines
Superfamily:Testudinoidea
Family:	Testudinidae
Genus:	Gopherus
Species: agassizii

Please let us know how the report goes


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## galvinkaos (Mar 17, 2009)

Thanks Robyn. I will hand over the computer and let him look at the links when he gets back from the store (of course with me reading over his shoulder ).

I will post the grade when he gets it. The project is due 3/27...hopefully he doesn't need his live display that day. I have jury duty that week. 

Dawna


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## galvinkaos (Mar 27, 2009)

Well Fred and I went to school this morning for Lee's presentation. Fred was very popular. Hopefully he will get a good grade. Thank you again for the input and assistance.

Dawna


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## galvinkaos (Apr 5, 2009)

Just thought I would update. Lee received an 8 out of 8 on his project, which of course is an A.  So thank you again for all the input and information.

Dawna and Lee


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## Crazy1 (Apr 6, 2009)

Congratulations Lee and of course Dawna. Sounds like you did good research and had your presentation well planned out. Dawna I am sure you are very proud of Lee and the work he did on his project as well as Freds behavior  Now do we have a possible budding biologist?


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## galvinkaos (Apr 6, 2009)

Lee says thank you. He wants to be a pilot. Everyone did very well and was well behaved. 

Dawna


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## Madkins007 (Apr 8, 2009)

Shucks- I missed being able to add that the Class can also be considered to be either Anapsidia or Chelonia, based on 2000 classifications by people like Roger Conants, etc. See http://www.naherpetology.org/taxonomy.asp

All the old taxonomy is being reviewed as DNA and other research is making us rethink a lot of this.


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## galvinkaos (Apr 13, 2009)

We appreciate the response even if late. I am sure the kids will be the subject of more school projects. 

Dawna


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