# Outdoor housing



## Michael Pancari (Oct 8, 2017)

Would like to know peoples opinions on having a covered outdoor enclosure versus an open one. (With lid vs without) 

When is it necessary or not?
At what size can the tortoise not require a lid? 
ECT... 

Location is central Florida but conversation can contain opinions on different locations.


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## JoesMum (Oct 8, 2017)

Outdoors, the cover is usually protection against predators and escape-prevention.

The tortoise needs shelter outdoors... somewhere to hide out of the heat/wet and to to sleep while feeling safe. Covering the entire enclosure with wire or mesh, depends on local factors.

An outdoor enclosure mustn't be completely shaded as that obstructs the sun's UVB. So any mesh that's used must not be a fine grade


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## Michael Pancari (Oct 8, 2017)

JoesMum said:


> Outdoors, the cover is usually protection against predators and escape-prevention.
> 
> The tortoise needs shelter outdoors... somewhere to hide out of the heat/wet and to to sleep while feeling safe. Covering the entire enclosure with wire or mesh, depends on local factors.
> 
> An outdoor enclosure mustn't be completely shaded as that obstructs the sun's UVB. So any mesh that's used must not be a fine grade


At what size do you believe it is okay for a tortoise not to have a cover? 
Lets say based in florida


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## JoesMum (Oct 8, 2017)

I am afraid I live in the UK and your predators are somewhat different to ours - much bigger and more teeth from what little I have seen on tv . You need locals for that... people like @ZEROPILOT


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## Michael Pancari (Oct 8, 2017)

JoesMum said:


> I am afraid I live in the UK and your predators are somewhat different to ours - much bigger and more teeth from what little I have seen on tv . You need locals for that... people like @ZEROPILOT


Thank you for your responses!


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## Tom (Oct 8, 2017)

This answer will vary with location, people's comfort level, and each individual situation.

I live on the edge of the wilderness and we have tons of predators of all types all around. Ravens, crows, owls, hawks, bears, mountain lions, bobcats, raccoons, and I see coyotes almost daily. You know what is more dangerous to tortoises than all of those combined? Family dogs. Doesn't even have to be _your_ dog. Could be a neighbor's dog, or the dog of a visiting friend or relative…

Generally, I'm okay without a cover once they are about 4" or bigger. Few things are going to swoop in unnoticed and grab them at that size. There is also a lot of dog, donkey, emu, camel, and human activity on my ranch, which tends to keep the wildlife away. People are coming and going at all hours of the day and night, and it stays pretty busy. Plus all the dogs go off if anyone or anything comes near.

You will have to assess the individual risk factors for your situation. Do you live near water with large herons or storks? How about raccoons? Is this a daytime only enclosure or for night time too? I lock up all of my outdoor tortoises in their night boxes every night. This eliminates the thought of predation during the most risky time.


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## ZEROPILOT (Oct 8, 2017)

Michael Pancari said:


> At what size do you believe it is okay for a tortoise not to have a cover?
> Lets say based in florida


My cover is to keep out feral cats. They love to hang out and poop everywhere. It also allows me to have a watering system, so I can make it rain anytime I want.
Serious predators are raccoons (I've killed them all) and predatory birds. (I've never had safety issues with any cat)
I feel safe leaving out a tortoise that is 6 or 7 inches here in the s.e. Broward County suburbs.
Your situation may or may not be the same.


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## ZEROPILOT (Oct 8, 2017)

Michael Pancari said:


> Would like to know peoples opinions on having a covered outdoor enclosure versus an open one. (With lid vs without)
> 
> When is it necessary or not?
> At what size can the tortoise not require a lid?
> ...


Most of my Redfoot 24/7 pens have been about 24" tall and have been constructed out of steel pickets pounded into the ground and then screwing treated fencing wood to it.
It's very cheap and longlasting. It also removes quickly and can be enlarged easily...


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## Michael Pancari (Oct 8, 2017)

ZEROPILOT said:


> My cover is to keep out feral cats. They love to hang out and poop everywhere. It also allows me to have a watering system, so I can make it rain anytime I want.
> Serious predators are raccoons (I've killed them all) and predatory birds. (I've never had safety issues with any cat)
> I feel safe leaving out a tortoise that is 6 or 7 inches here in the s.e. Broward County suburbs.
> Your situation may or may not be the same.


I do have a little colony of raccoons in the little wooded area behind my torts. They don't seem to bother my sulcata thats housed openly. But my smaller torts are covered. Do you know the estimated amount it cost you to build your redfoot pen?


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## ZEROPILOT (Oct 8, 2017)

Construction of a sturdy and inexpensive pen can be very simple and require just a hammer and screwdriver.


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## Michael Pancari (Oct 8, 2017)

ZEROPILOT said:


> Construction of a sturdy and inexpensive pen can be very simple and require just a hammer and screwdriver.


I prefer power tools [emoji12]


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## ZEROPILOT (Oct 8, 2017)

Michael Pancari said:


> I do have a little colony of raccoons in the little wooded area behind my torts. They don't seem to bother my sulcata thats housed openly. But my smaller torts are covered. Do you know the estimated amount it cost you to build your redfoot pen?


I've added on to it over the years and it now has 2 cement pools. 2 heated night boxes and is plumbed for water. But initially it was about $100. Knee high with soil and plants included.
Now maybe $300?


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## Yvonne G (Oct 8, 2017)

I live in Central California. I've seen dead raccoons on the street in front of my house (hit by a car), but hadn't seen any on my property until earlier this year when I started seeing dead and chewed box turtles in my box turtle yard. I gathered up the 5 or 6 dead shells and put them into a Hava-a-Heart trap as bait. The next morning I had a raccoon. Haven't seen one since. It would be pretty difficult to cover my tortoise yards, but if push came to shove, I could put up a hot wire to zap anything that tried to climb in. 

Birds would be another problem and a hot wire wouldn't solve that problem. I usually don't put babies out into the turtle/tortoise yards though until they're big enough to not be carried away by a bird.


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## ZEROPILOT (Oct 8, 2017)

My Youtube video is called:
Redfoot habitat Florida style.
It shows what I did on the cheap. It's been working for years now.


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## ZEROPILOT (Oct 8, 2017)

Michael Pancari said:


> I prefer power tools [emoji12]


Yes. Scewing in a few hundred screws without one would be tiresome.


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## Michael Pancari (Oct 8, 2017)

Yvonne G said:


> I live in Central California. I've seen dead raccoons on the street in front of my house (hit by a car), but hadn't seen any on my property until earlier this year when I started seeing dead and chewed box turtles in my box turtle yard. I gathered up the 5 or 6 dead shells and put them into a Hava-a-Heart trap as bait. The next morning I had a raccoon. Haven't seen one since. It would be pretty difficult to cover my tortoise yards, but if push came to shove, I could put up a hot wire to zap anything that tried to climb in.
> 
> Birds would be another problem and a hot wire wouldn't solve that problem. I usually don't put babies out into the turtle/tortoise yards though until they're big enough to not be carried away by a bird.


Sorry to hear about the box turtles. But guess there's solid proof the raccoons can't be trusted.


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## ZEROPILOT (Oct 8, 2017)

Racoon are strong and smart. They also have tiny thumbs that allow them to negotiate barriers that would keep out other animals.
For example, the roof of my house.
I love animals. Almost all animals. But raccoons do very well living off of oportunity alone. And will not just go away.


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## Yvonne G (Oct 8, 2017)

I always thought that the fact I have a dog and her scent kept the raccoons off my property. The female that I caught in the trap was heavily pregnant, so maybe she was taking the easy way of finding food and not paying attention to dog smells.


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## ZEROPILOT (Oct 8, 2017)

Yvonne G said:


> I always thought that the fact I have a dog and her scent kept the raccoons off my property. The female that I caught in the trap was heavily pregnant, so maybe she was taking the easy way of finding food and not paying attention to dog smells.


I can't say.
A pregnant female is what ripped the shingles and plywood off of my foot to have her babies in my attic.
My dog isn't a threat to anything....except geckos.


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## ZEROPILOT (Oct 8, 2017)

I also agree with what @Tom warned about, above.
The vast majority of reported injuries that we hear are indeed dog related.
And it seems that dog injury is not on most people's mind.


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