# Leaving and tortoises



## Merrick (May 14, 2015)

Zenoandthetortoise thread got me thinking since toetoises live so long when people lose interest in the forum do they lose interest in their tortoise or just not post.

Really what I am asking is what happens to those who leave?


----------



## ZEROPILOT (May 14, 2015)

Merrick, they might feel that they were only contributing and not learning from this site.
that's my take, anyway.


----------



## Gillian M (May 14, 2015)

Merrick said:


> Zenoandthetortoise thread got me thinking since toetoises live so long when people lose interest in the forum do they lose interest in their tortoise or just not post.
> 
> Really what I am asking is what happens to those who leave?


 Good question!


----------



## Gillian M (May 14, 2015)

ZEROPILOT said:


> Merrick, they might feel that they were only contributing and not learning from this site.
> that's my take, anyway.


 Maybe, but one also has to take into consideration that very many members have a job, a family, children and so on, therefore do not have much time for the forum.


----------



## Team Gomberg (May 14, 2015)

I've "sorta" left the forum...or at least significantly decreased my activity. I've also downsized from 30+ turtles/torts to just 1.

I downsized when I moved to a colder state and I comment less because I no longer feel like I have much to contribute.

I still have lots of interest in my Leopard, just not as much to say now.


----------



## Dizisdalife (May 14, 2015)

It seems to me that if an experienced keeper comes to the Forum with a passion for tortoises, they leave the Forum with a passion for tortoises. I can't imagine anything that is said here to change that. Their tortoises will be fine. And similarly, the Forum will be fine too.


----------



## Tom (May 14, 2015)

I was taking good care of all my tortoises long before I found this forum. If I ever leave the forum, I will continue to care for them well.

I don't think one thing has anything to do with the other. Lots of people take good care of their animals and have never heard of TFO.


----------



## Yvonne G (May 14, 2015)

I think, but have no way of knowing for certain, that a lot of the more experienced tortoise keepers get tired of all the same questions being asked over and over. That's why we initiated the Advanced Tortoise Topics section. However, not too many of our members take advantage of it. Because the Forum is so active, we pretty much show up in every Google search about turtles and tortoises. This means we get a lot - and I do mean a LOT - of new members daily. Most of these people don't know how to use the Forum, so instead of searching for their answers, they start a new thread and the same questions are asked over and over again. It is sometimes very hard to stay calm and give good and reasonable answers when we've already answered the question numerous times before.

Those of us who are addicted to the Forum will never leave.


----------



## Tidgy's Dad (May 14, 2015)

People seem to leave for a number of reasons, but with the exception of a few of those whose tortoise sadly dies, I believe they will continue to love and care for tortoises/turtles.
I think it's almost impossible not too, once you've begun.
I don't think it's necessary to be an active member of TFO to love your chelonians. 
But, for many, it's a good place to be if you do.


----------



## Gillian M (May 14, 2015)

Yvonne G said:


> I think, but have no way of knowing for certain, that a lot of the more experienced tortoise keepers get tired of all the same questions being asked over and over. That's why we initiated the Advanced Tortoise Topics section. However, not too many of our members take advantage of it. Because the Forum is so active, we pretty much show up in every Google search about turtles and tortoises. This means we get a lot - and I do mean a LOT - of new members daily. Most of these people don't know how to use the Forum, so instead of searching for their answers, they start a new thread and the same questions are asked over and over again. It is sometimes very hard to stay calm and give good and reasonable answers when we've already answered the question numerous times before.
> 
> Those of us who are addicted to the Forum will never leave.


 I hope that the experienced ones as well as the friendly people do not leave the forum.


----------



## Tom (May 14, 2015)

If we are going to discuss _why_ experienced members leave, I can universally say that its because their posts get deleted when someone who has the power to delete doesn't like what they have to say. I understand deleting posts that break forum rules, but often it seems (at least to the people leaving) that censorship against their ideas is being employed.

No one of the dearly departed have ever told me they left due to repeated noob questions. Most of these guys just pass over those noob issues anyhow. Every single one has cited philosophical differences and censorship as their reason for leaving.

@Josh I though this might interest you.


----------



## ZEROPILOT (May 14, 2015)

Every experienced keeper was at one point a novice with lots of questions.
No one here or anywhere is incapable of learning one more new thing.


----------



## Merrick (May 14, 2015)

All your answers were really nice and made me think about why I joined the forum and thanks to the knowledge and people on here I got my tort oogy and I learned how to properly care for him reversed though because I did lots of research before getting him


----------



## Yvonne G (May 14, 2015)

Tom said:


> If we are going to discuss _why_ experienced members leave, I can universally say that its because their posts get deleted when someone who has the power to delete doesn't like what they have to say. I understand deleting posts that break forum rules, but often it seems (at least to the people leaving) that censorship against their ideas is being employed.
> 
> No one of the dearly departed have ever told me they left due to repeated noob questions. Most of these guys just pass over those noob issues anyhow. Every single one has cited philosophical differences and censorship as their reason for leaving.
> 
> @Josh I though this might interest you.



It's too bad they didn't read the guidelines before opening their big mouths on the Forum then. The number one guideline is - DO NOT POST ANYTHING BLATANTLY RUDE AND OR INSULTING. They might have had a very good point, but if you're rude about expressing it, it goes to the 'to be deleted' file. And no one is immune to these rules. Not my sister or my so-called friends (I'd really like to know who these people are, because I thought I didn't have any friends on the forum) or experts or newbies.


----------



## spud's_mum (May 14, 2015)

It would be hard I forget about a tort! Torts are addictive, I NEED another! Before I got spud, my parents said I would be able to have one of my friends leopard hatchlings if the eggs ever hatched... I wounded if they would still let me even though I have spud? They never said I couldn't......  lol


----------



## spud's_mum (May 14, 2015)

Wonder* auto correct sucks haha


----------



## TurtleBug (May 14, 2015)

Tom said:


> If we are going to discuss _why_ experienced members leave, I can universally say that its because their posts get deleted when someone who has the power to delete doesn't like what they have to say. I understand deleting posts that break forum rules, but often it seems (at least to the people leaving) that censorship against their ideas is being employed.
> 
> No one of the dearly departed have ever told me they left due to repeated noob questions. Most of these guys just pass over those noob issues anyhow. Every single one has cited philosophical differences and censorship as their reason for leaving.
> 
> @Josh I though this might interest you.




Yes, there seems to be a lot of censoring and editing on the forum.  What if you just moved threads that have become "too hot" to an unmoderated (or almost unmoderated) section labeled "debates from h*ll", "hot & controversial debates", "enter at your own risk debates" or something like that.    People who don't want to read them, can just skip that section. If needed, maybe add an extra warning for age limit or an additional password.


----------



## DawnH (May 14, 2015)

Admittedly I left for a while due to what I perceived as holier than thou attitudes by some. I understand what it is like to be a noob but that doesn't mean we are incompetent boobs either. It's pretty hard to navigate it all or make sense of the conflicting posts when you DO search and easier to just ask again (fresh, because the answers seem to change.) This is all new to me and like most I want to do right by my tort. I don't think there is such a thing as a stupid question, only stupid answers. Regardless I do love the info I gather here and there are quite a few people who I really love to see what they are saying. It's a pretty cool place if you ask me!


----------



## newCH (May 14, 2015)

Interesting question, I always notice that posts have substantial # views compared to replies. Not sure if people are tired of repeat info or have nothing to offer.


----------



## wellington (May 14, 2015)

I am a mod, and I have no idea where everyone thinks us mods go through deleting at will. First, let me say, WE DONT!!! Second, if there is any editing going on, it's not to put their own views in, it's to keep the thread/post exceptable to the rules. 
It is very tiring reading the same stuff over and over, day after day, week after week, etc, etc, however, all must remember, at some point in your life, you were a noobie too and drove someone nuts asking the never ending questions, and so we keep answering them. As for the members that leave. A lot of them had good knowldege to share, but never did. If they did, and they didn't think you were upto their standard, or level of knowledge or didn't use big fancy words, mostly noobies, well they didn't really treat you well, ignored you or argued with you. And now they all talk about us.


----------



## mike taylor (May 14, 2015)

I think as long as you put things a nice way most editing would stop . No need to call people stupid or dumb . If you don't like what someone is teaching someone else post pictures to prove your ways work or ask them to provide a picture . Just act like adults and stop bashing people because one ways is not the only way . I'm not pointing out any one person so don't think that I am . A little respect goes a long way . If someone says something hateful to you be the bigger person and just hit report and carry on . If you are dedicated to helping others then tough out the bad an stick it out . Quitting the forum isn't going to help anyone . Tom takes some hits and keeps coming back for more . Yvonne is another one who I see taking a lot of crap for really nothing . They stick it out . If you get upset then stop typing . Take a break and come back at it .


----------



## Gillian M (May 14, 2015)

Team Gomberg said:


> I've "sorta" left the forum...or at least significantly decreased my activity. I've also downsized from 30+ turtles/torts to just 1.
> 
> I downsized when I moved to a colder state and I comment less because I no longer feel like I have much to contribute.
> 
> I still have lots of interest in my Leopard, just not as much to say now.


 Why? Too bad. Have you lost interest? Or don't you have enough time? Whatever the answer, good luck.


----------



## leigti (May 14, 2015)

newCH said:


> Interesting question, I always notice that posts have substantial # views compared to replies. Not sure if people are tired of repeat info or have nothing to offer.


I think it could be a combination of both. I know that before I joined the forum and was just doing searches I would often get to a thread that I found out didn't really pertain to my particular situation. Now sometimes I read a thread just for the information it provides, curiosity, learning something new in general. I also agree as stated above that sometimes searching threads on a topic will lead you to much conflicting information even on the site. And as a total new tortoise owner who is never been around reptiles in my life, it was a little hard to decide what I should do. I don't think I will ever totally leave the forum, but there have been times I have gotten frustrated and backed off a little. Partly because of my own personality, I feel strongly about things and I'm not shy saying it. I do think that have seen more active experienced tortoise keepers would be beneficial for everybody. I don't mind heated discussions but when they dissolve down to P or personal fighting then it loses its value in my opinion. Maybe the debatable topics section and advanced topics section needs to be used more often. And maybe they should have more lenient rules. 
I don't really know the answers. But I do know that before I'm like this without many experienced tortoise keepers contributing to it really isn't much help to anybody except the very new and inexperienced keeper. Those of us that are somewhere in between those two groups lose out the most.


----------



## leigti (May 14, 2015)

A forum not before I'm


----------



## ascott (May 15, 2015)

Merrick said:


> Zenoandthetortoise thread got me thinking since toetoises live so long when people lose interest in the forum do they lose interest in their tortoise or just not post.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Potentially a heavily loaded question  I stumbled across this forum when I had a tortoise that came into my care that had a medical issue I had not dealt with before....the first person who replied to me was Yvonne....her response was one of curiosity and help---that was awesome. I have had much time on this forum that I enjoyed----I personally enjoy new members to the forum, I always know that, as with myself, just because someone is new to the forum does NOT mean that they are new to tortoise/turtle or this earth....so to treat them as such, to speak to them as such--is a huge disservice. 

I am of the opinion that there are a few members on this forum that overstep, in a negative manner, the purpose of being here, helping other, brainstorming issues when someone reaches out to the entire forum....I also see too many times when a few members come on and slam new members and old, with a holier than thou, self created, self proclaimed persona.....this is harmful to the overall moral of the community. For some reason some folks find the need to get on a side or team "whoever"...this then becomes a pissing match and the point and strength of the community here is compromised. 

I still have not read, nor seen any support that anyone person is an "expert" over an above anyone else on this forum....as in life, we each have our own life experiences, educational experiences and shared experiences....each and everyone of those are important and valuable...I find myself skipping the forum more so due to these very reasons. But, say la vee, right? I pop in and out, I reply to private messages and play back and forth on likes---I have put a few forum members on "ignore" status on my account just so I can peruse the forum without that head ache....and such is what it is. I still find wealth in the new members and I find it imperative that the "same questions" are asked...you see, within those are new words describing a common situation and with each new set of words---a bit of a twist can come into play for what some say are the same old thing...the new words lead to new thought---unless folks just quickly associate the new words with an old answer....such a shame really.

I do not spend as much time here. I do spend as much time supporting the tortoise in my care so that they can live as natural life as possible...although I do not spend as much time here, I am in no way less in awe of the tortoise and turtle....


----------



## DawnH (May 15, 2015)

ascott said:


> Potentially a heavily loaded question  I stumbled across this forum when I had a tortoise that came into my care that had a medical issue I had not dealt with before....the first person who replied to me was Yvonne....her response was one of curiosity and help---that was awesome. I have had much time on this forum that I enjoyed----I personally enjoy new members to the forum, I always know that, as with myself, just because someone is new to the forum does NOT mean that they are new to tortoise/turtle or this earth....so to treat them as such, to speak to them as such--is a huge disservice.
> 
> I am of the opinion that there are a few members on this forum that overstep, in a negative manner, the purpose of being here, helping other, brainstorming issues when someone reaches out to the entire forum....I also see too many times when a few members come on and slam new members and old, with a holier than thou, self created, self proclaimed persona.....this is harmful to the overall moral of the community. For some reason some folks find the need to get on a side or team "whoever"...this then becomes a pissing match and the point and strength of the community here is compromised.
> 
> ...



I have always enjoyed your posts Angela, and I sincerely hope you will spend more time on the forum now that I have come back... LOL 

(No, really. I am being serious!)


----------



## theguy67 (May 15, 2015)

I kinda left and I suppose I will provide my input.

1. For me, everything with tortoises is kinda slow once you leave the pre-noob stage (I say pre-noob cause I still consider myself as a noob). From landscaping, to growing the tortoises.

2. Also, aside from coming here to ask questions, I did try to contribute some, but didn't really receive much feedback. This caused me to lose interest, and to retreat offline and just to enjoy the tortoises.


Lots have changed in the past year with my torts, so I may try to become more active, but life has become more busy as well.


----------



## mikeylazer (May 15, 2015)

I think it is fair to say that @YvonneG and @Tom are two (if many) standout members on here that no matter how many years of experience or advanced knowledge on the matters at hand, still offer some of the best advice, and post on almost anything they can to help newcomers. They helped me and probably most of you so who cares why the arrogant and so called "to advanced" left. The ones that stay and keep helping the world of tortoises are the ones that we should be talking about.


----------



## ascott (May 15, 2015)

mikeylazer said:


> I think it is fair to say that @YvonneG and @Tom are two (if many) standout members on here that no matter how many years of experience or advanced knowledge on the matters at hand, still offer some of the best advice, and post on almost anything they can to help newcomers. They helped me and probably most of you so who cares why the arrogant and so called "to advanced" left. The ones that stay and keep helping the world of tortoises are the ones that we should be talking about.




Prime example of some of my issues....but that is fine...to each is their own


----------



## redfootdaddy (May 16, 2015)

I'm just here for the cute tortie pictures.

That said, I also walked away from the forum for a while - as a new tort owner, it was really overwhelming after a while, I was second-guessing everything we were doing with our little one. So I stopped paying attention to strangers (albeit very experienced and nice strangers) on the internet, and paid more attention to Pao. When and what she was eating, her habits and preferences, and what was working for us. 

Now I'm back, and I think I'm in a good groove of experienced enough to help some newbs and inexperienced enough to soak up as much info as I can get.


----------



## Anyfoot (May 17, 2015)

Just read this thread, quite interesting. 
I've often thought that the more experienced tortoise owners must get fed up of the same questions repeating them selves over and over again. However if everyone searched and found the info they are looking for without so much as one question, this would be a pretty rubbish forum, and the experts would surely feel as though they are not needed. Surely these experts get a buzz out of passing knowledge on(I do in the world of engineering). 
From my point of view, If I wasn't communicating with the more experience/experts this forum wouldn't have the effect it has had on me. Its nice to know that the tort owners that "have been there and done that" and some that are involved in major projects out in the field saving a species but then they are still willing to help with the basic level of tort keeping like what substrate to use. That's dedication. I also enjoy talking to newbies, and they raise questions that lead onto me thinking of more in depth questions. I also ask questions that I already know the answers too just to create conversation and hope others get involved and learn. This is the 3rd tort forum I joined and the only one I returned too. 
One thing I read and agreed and thought about before. An over 18yrs section. Still rules to be held too mind you.

Anyway, I've got to go, getting my ear chowed off again for being on the forum too much.


----------



## mike taylor (May 17, 2015)

You get that to . The wife can be on Facebook then I get on TFO and here we go .hahah


----------



## Anyfoot (May 17, 2015)

mike taylor said:


> You get that to . The wife can be on Facebook then I get on TFO and here we go .hahah


Oh yeah. It gets worse. I'm expected to sit there and watch big brother. Stuff that. Computer comes out and on the forum I go.


----------



## Heardofturtles (Jul 7, 2015)

[QUOTE="I don't think it's possible for an atheist to be 'holier than thou' without reaching fatal levels of irony, so that's out. 

Cheers![/QUOTE]

Ha!


----------



## Alaskamike (Jul 8, 2015)

I think this issue was addressed in other threads, but seems here to be well thought out and I like the opinion and experience of others. I remember a forum I was involved in when rebuilding an old motorcycle that I was extremely active in at the time, but once I had it done, drifted away and lost interest. My M.O. I suppose, a bit obsessive then over time - not so much.

The other issue - one of censorship or reprimand / deletion from MODS is more interesting to me, as I tend to be very far from "politically correct" though I think I try to be diplomatic when possible. When I initially joined the forum I was a bit taken aback by the harping on closed chambers and humidity and questioned that, but have since accepted that it works and makes sense, though it still seems a bit overkill to me that 5 people have to chime in on a Newbee to reinforce it once someone explains it. 

MY guess is that very few leave because they are offended. But if their skin is that thin, so be it. When you make a reply in print, we all have varying degrees of time and diplomacy to put it just "right". The truth is the truth whether you sugar coat it or not - if we all had our big boy pants on we could handle it.

I'm sure over time, and with life changes my comments no the forum will diminish. But as long as I have my Torts buddies, am semi-retired at home, I'll b here someplace. The advance tortoise topics, and areas of debate interest me the most now.


----------



## JoesMum (Jul 8, 2015)

I have to say that compared with other forums I use, this one does incredibly well. 

It has a very large, multinational membership so policing it is very hard. It's incredibly difficult to get it right when standards, values and understanding on any number of topics, not just the tortoise ones, prove to have different sensitivities in different communities. 

The trolling on here is negligible compared with another tort forum I joined. I rarely go there these days having witnessed their mods taking apart newbies once too often. 

With regard to wiping out existing good members... it is possible to do it by accident. I'm a mod on an IT forum and have gone to wipe out a spammer without realising that I had a proper member's post selected as well... and then obliterated both of them. In fact, I don't think there's a single mod on that forum that hasn't also banned the reporting engine at least once! :redface:


----------



## vocalisa (Jul 10, 2015)

Yvonne G said:


> I think, but have no way of knowing for certain, that a lot of the more experienced tortoise keepers get tired of all the same questions being asked over and over. That's why we initiated the Advanced Tortoise Topics section. However, not too many of our members take advantage of it. Because the Forum is so active, we pretty much show up in every Google search about turtles and tortoises. This means we get a lot - and I do mean a LOT - of new members daily. Most of these people don't know how to use the Forum, so instead of searching for their answers, they start a new thread and the same questions are asked over and over again. It is sometimes very hard to stay calm and give good and reasonable answers when we've already answered the question numerous times before.
> 
> Those of us who are addicted to the Forum will never leave.


I am new to the forum but I understand the tedium of answering the same questions from experience on my job. Thank you, oh patient experienced ones, for sharing your knowledge and being friendly, too.


----------

