# Animal lover in need of help and advice ASAP



## Brutha (Oct 18, 2010)

I'm out of town right now and may have the opportunity to help two tortoises. I only have a small window to act, so I'm looking for some advice.

First, I don't have any tortoise experience. They look like they could be gopher tortoises or desert tortoises (look similar [to me, anyway] to the one in this thread: http://tortoiseforum.org/Thread-Can-you-help-me-identify-my-new-friend, but with a rougher shell [pyramiding?]). I took pictures, but have no way to upload them until I get back home tomorrow.

Their owner recently died, and I'm worried about their fate if I don't take them. I just don't want to do more harm than good. From what I've read about tortoises today, I feel that I can do better than what they have now (shallow plastic tote that looks too small to me).

Should I take these tortoises with me (5 hour car ride), or can I possibly do more harm than good removing them? 
What can I do to keep them safe while I find out what's involved in keeping them?
Can I get in trouble for taking them (from a house in NY, not from their natural habitat) if they are gopher tortoises? 
If I take them, what can I throw together quickly to safely transport and house them? I saw plans online for habitats and I can build them in the next few days, but have nothing prepared because I just found out about them.

I have so many questions right now. I'm just an animal lover that wants to do what's right for the tortoises. Thanks in advance.


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## Yvonne G (Oct 18, 2010)

If they ARE in the Gopherus family of tortoises, they are NOT native to New York, so are already illegal.

It would be ill-advised for us to tell you what to do until we know for sure if we're talking about an ok tortoise or an illegal tortoise.

I kinda' doubt they are in the Gopherus family. If they're small enough to live in a plastic tote, they're probably in the Greek family. In that case, I'd not hesitate to take them home with me. You sound like you would be giving them much better care (even in your "ignorance") than they're getting right now. Older Greeks look similar to gopherus tortoises.

Good luck and be sure to keep us informed. I'd love to hear another success story...and...

Welcome to the forum!!

Sorry, I neglected to answer your questions:

Just box them up in a cardboard box with shredded newspaper and keep the flaps folded over so it stays dark. They should sleep the whole way. If its pretty cold in your car you might look into buying a product called "hot hands." It won't do them any harm to ride for 5 or 6 hours in a darkened box. Just stop on your way home and pick up a clamp light. You can warm the tortoise temporarily while you're building their tort table with a plain old 100 watt bulb in a clamp light fixture. And be sure to send us the pictures so we can give you the correct scoop on their care.


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## Brutha (Oct 18, 2010)

I'm fine with taking them home and building a nice enclosure to house them until I can decide to keep them or find a /good/ home, but am worried about it if they are something illegal. Are there a lot of illegal tortoises? I don't want to get arrested or fined or something for trying to do the right thing. Any good resources for identifying them? Who do I need to contact if are illegal, local authorities? Do they get destroyed if they're illegal? If so, I'd think I'd rather walk away and hope they find someone who's willing to take care of an illegal pet?

Thanks for the help, this whole thing has me so stressed right now (people always tell me I worry too much, but I can't help it...).


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## Maggie Cummings (Oct 18, 2010)

The only thing native to New York are box turtles and I don't think it's illegal to remove them. Who's gonna know? I have a colony of box turtles as do most on the forum. If you live in New York I believe you need to get a license to keep them. Desert torts are illegal, but that's in Calif or the South. I would get a box and put them in it. Take some pictures when you get home and we'll tell you how to care for them...


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## terryo (Oct 18, 2010)

I would take them home. If you live in NY and want to get a permit/license, it's only $10, and very easy to get.
Try to post some pictures.


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## Brutha (Oct 18, 2010)

OK, my gut is telling me that they need my help. I've attached some crappy camera phone pictures of the camera's display (best I can manage for now). I doubt they'll be useful until I get the real ones up.


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## Edna (Oct 18, 2010)

Brutha said:


> OK, my gut is telling me that they need my help. I've attached some crappy camera phone pictures of the camera's display (best I can manage for now). I doubt they'll be useful until I get the real ones up.



Those pictures are not bad, for now. I'm not a tortoise identifier, but I can tell you that most of the law enforcement people you're likely to run into in an average life aren't tortoise identifiers, either. Which means they would never question whether the tort you have is illegal or not. I don't say this to encourage you to do something illegal, but rather to encourage you to quit worrying. The individual animals need care, no matter what their status is. Take them home with you, post pictures, and figure out how best to care for your new buddies. You'll LOVE them!


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## RV's mom (Oct 18, 2010)

I listen to my gut first, and then deal with the consequences... good luck.


teri


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## Jacqui (Oct 19, 2010)

sharkstar said:


> I listen to my gut first, and then deal with the consequences... good luck.
> 
> 
> teri



Just thinking and only as a plain member, not as a moderator of this site, but this is where my heart and mind would be casting my vote....

Makes a difference which state your picking them up from. Some states do not have them as being illegal to remove from the state or to bring into it.

Usually, if you were caught with illegal animals, in an instance like this, I would think you would not get in serious trouble with being the good animal lover and thinking that the survivial of the tortoises comes first. Then you learn all you can about them and if need be, find a GOOD legal place to take them to.


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## egyptiandan (Oct 19, 2010)

They are both Gopher tortoises, _Gopherus polyphemus_. They are not illegal to move across state lines as they are not on our endangered species list. They are only illegal to own in the states they are native to and a few other states. 
They have been in captivity for quite a while, so they should do fine.

Danny


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## Brutha (Oct 19, 2010)

Thanks for all the feedback. I didn't take them across any state lines, it was downstate NY to upstate NY. I just got them home, so the rescue and the get them home safely part is done.

I picked up a 8.5" clamp lamp and 100 watt bulbs. They're in a large rubbermaid tote right now; I'm planning to run to the store tonight to try to get something bigger (they look very cramped in there now). I'm not sure what else I need right now.

I asked a ton of questions when I met the guy that had them temporarily. Unfortunately, he didn't know many of the answers. He has been watching them since early September, which is why I'm glad I decided to rescue them. Here's what I was told about them today:
--Between 10 and 20 years old, stayed small for years, past 5 years got big quickly.
--Thinks he's been eating mostly bok choy.
--1 Male and 1 Female (makes me wonder if they should be separated [they've been together all along]?)
--Didn't have any water

Now I have to figure out the care and feeding....


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## Yvonne G (Oct 19, 2010)

Here's a link to a nice care sheet for the gopher tortoise, and there's a good paragraph in the article about housing the tortoise indoors:

http://www.chelonia.org/Articles/Gpolyphemuscare.htm


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## Laura (Oct 19, 2010)

First thing you need to do, if you have not done so, is to get a shallow tub of WARM water and give them a good soak.. a bath tub works too. 
Then, get them set up and warm and look at getting thier diet back on track. I would NOT plan to hibernate them this year, so you will need to prepare to keep them warm this winter. 
It looks like they were in dire need of rescue.. thank you for doing so!!


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## Scooter (Oct 19, 2010)

Welcome to the forum! Good luck with these guys, becareful though they are addicting lol


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## Laura (Oct 19, 2010)

OF warm water... not or..


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## Brutha (Oct 19, 2010)

Gave them a nice soaking. Is it normal for them to put their heads under the water and just hold them there? Maybe they were just very thirsty. I was worried about them drowning or something, so I kept picking them up after half a minute or so. One pooped the tub, it was like cottage cheese (white, lumpy), sound normal? I didn't see anything like that in the box they were in, so maybe something with the stress of the bath?

How often and how much should I feed them? Should I leave a little bowl of water with them? Does the light have to be on all the time, or just some number of hours?

Here's one of them in their old home:






And their home tonight (definitely let me know if you have suggestions or see any red flags):


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## Kristina (Oct 19, 2010)

Brutha said:


> Gave them a nice soaking. Is it normal for them to put their heads under the water and just hold them there? Maybe they were just very thirsty. I was worried about them drowning or something, so I kept picking them up after half a minute or so.



That is how tortoises drink. They will sometimes hold their heads under water for 10-15 minutes without taking a breath. They were probably VERY thirsty, but will not drown themselves.



Brutha said:


> One pooped the tub, it was like cottage cheese (white, lumpy), sound normal? I didn't see anything like that in the box they were in, so maybe something with the stress of the bath?



The white substance is urates, or basically solidified urine. Some is normal. The reason that you did not see any in the tub is because they usually only pee right after they drink. It is how they conserve water in the wild. The only release urine when they can replace the fluids they lose. If they were drinking as deeply as you said, they were certainly not overly stressed, and probably very relieved. 



Brutha said:


> How often and how much should I feed them? Should I leave a little bowl of water with them? Does the light have to be on all the time, or just some number of hours?



Feed once a day, usually in the morning, and they should clean up what you give them by the time you turn the lights off. If they aren't eating it all, offer less. They should have water, yes, but they won't drink out of a little bowl. It needs to be big enough for them to get in, but shallow enough that they can hold their head out of the water easily. I use flower pot saucers, cat litter pans, trash can lids, water heater drip pans, etc. depending on the size of the tortoise. They need something for a food dish that is more easily accessible, also. A piece of slate tile works great. 

The light should be on for about 12 hours and off for about 12 hours. They need to be able to sleep and have a day/night cycle. Because they are currently on the floor, I would get a black light or red light bulb to provide some warmth at night time. If you get them in an enclosure up off the floor, then they should be fine at room temperature at night.


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## Brutha (Oct 20, 2010)

OK, today's progress:
--Another bath, they didn't drink this time. 
--Their former temporary handler didn't remember what their original owner (the one who died) named them, so we named them. The larger one I named Om (Terry Pratchett fans might notice a pattern here...), the smaller one my wife named Opal. We were told one male and one female, but neither really looked like they had a flat plastron. Om is a bit darker than Opal. I suspect Om is the male and Opal is the female.
--Opal excreted urates (it was Om yesterday), so hopefully that means they're both better hydrated now.
--Replaced food bowl with a ceramic tile we had. They got two leaves of Bok Choy (their suposed former diet) and 5 stalks of Rapini today. I think they like the Rapini better. They didn't eat all of what we gave them, but I'm not sure if it's stress/temperture/etc.
--Replaced the water bowl with a thick plastic paint roller tray we bought. Seems to work well for them. Om loves it.
--Om is 9"x6", Opal is 7.5"x5"... Any suggestions on a tort table size? I'm not sure how big I can go at my house, which may play a part in keeping them or not (though we'll only consider a better home). 
--Om seemed to have a slight whistle in his nose today (don't remember it being there yesterday). Hoping it's not a respiratory issue. Still have to ask around about a herp vet in Rochester, NY. The one I found listed a few places online apparently moved to California.

The state of their current home:
I'm worried about them on the floor of the basement, but our curious and energetic Boston Terriers refuse to go down there (they hate open stairs for some reason), so I figured that was safest. Right now it's basement floor, shower liner, cardboard, newspaper. There's a dehumidifier down there....don't know if that's a bad thing. I'm wondering if it'd be better to have them higher in a smaller area, or lower in a larger area. They seem to like the inverted bottom of our old dog crate as a hideaway. The gate we bought last night seems to be doing the trick (the boxes are helping to keep them from pushing it aside), but I'm worried the light may be mounted too high.

I think Om is a camera hog (you can hear the nose whistle a bit in this video, which you can hopefully view...):




Thanks for all the feedback. Sorry for the questions that I later found answered in stickies, but I'm just slowly starting to come out of panic mode with these torts.


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## sara (Oct 21, 2010)

Brutha said:


> OK, today's progress:
> --Another bath, they didn't drink this time.
> --Their former temporary handler didn't remember what their original owner (the one who died) named them, so we named them. The larger one I named Om (Terry Pratchett fans might notice a pattern here...), the smaller one my wife named Opal. We were told one male and one female, but neither really looked like they had a flat plastron. Om is a bit darker than Opal. I suspect Om is the male and Opal is the female.
> --Opal excreted urates (it was Om yesterday), so hopefully that means they're both better hydrated now.
> ...



there are no bad questions. When i first brought Bert home, i was VERY nervous about the right care for him. Originally i was going to bring home a russian tort, but came across bert. I was prepared for a russian, not a red foot. 
The people on this site will help you and give you the advice you need. Do not hesitate or think its a dumb question. That dumb question could mean a torts life! If not for the great folks on here i think i would have gone crazy with worry! 
Good luck! You will do just fine with them!


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## Brutha (Oct 24, 2010)

After more reading and a closer plastron inspection, I'm pretty sure we had the sexes backwards, so we swapped names: Om is the male (brown, 7.5"x5"), Opal is the female (gray, 9"x6").

Found a local vet thanks to a recommendation from a forum member. I'm planning to make an appointment soon, just to see where they are health-wise and establish them with the vet.

We're just finishing up their new tort table. I'm sure you'll agree it's rags to riches compared to their old tiny tub. You can read about it and see some pictures here:
http://tortoiseforum.org/Thread-Om-and-Opal-s-New-Digs

Thanks for all the help and advice. It's amazing that a week ago I knew very little about tortoises, but now know more than most (with the exception of all of you, of course!). This will likely be my last update to this thread. See you around the forum!


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## Laura (Oct 24, 2010)

Have them tested for parasites when you get a chance. Living like they were.. I bet they are loaded..


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## Jermosh (Oct 25, 2010)

They look great, make sure you give them some sun, even if its only a few hours every-once and awhile. Also they will hibernate, so I would keep them fully warm till you see a vet and they will most likely recommend not hibernating them this year I think.

You can also get some plastic kiddie pools for inside and outside one that is flipped with half of the bottom cut out. This will allow them to manage their heat.

They can climb that fence you have believe it or not. I have seed DTs climb a 4' brick corner, eastern sonorans are natural rock climbers. Once you get a perm housing, just make sure you put a lip on the corners, I have not seen one get past that yet. 

Good luck and welcome to the good life!

Also, be sure to wash you hands well after handling them, Samonilla is a serios concern with all reptiles. Be cautios with little children around them for washing them and hurting the tort. 

Dogs and tortoises do not make good buddies even long time "friends" sometimes end up chewing on the shell. If you make an outdoor pen for the guys and a dog, just make sure you enclose it with wire or something.


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## goReptiles (Oct 25, 2010)

How about an outdoor enclosure versus the basement? It'd give them much more room, as well as proper surface to walk on.


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## Kristina (Oct 25, 2010)

The OP is in New York, and it is much too cold for them to be outside right now. They have a new indoor enclosure.

As far as hibernation, I had my Gopher for over 10 years, he never hibernated and did just fine.


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