# Box Turtle - help



## turtle_gal (Nov 8, 2010)

Hi all! I'm new here and was hoping I can get some help. I just got my baby Eastern Box Turtle yesterday. I believe he hatched this year. I was told I'd need a pretty basic set up for him, after looking at some of the threads on here I'm hoping I wasn't misled. Right now I have Forest Moss substrate from Exo Terra. Its like the Bed a Beast stuff that you soak in water and it expands. For lighting I was just told I need a light for the day and cut it off at night. Right now I have 60 watt Sun Glo, also from Exo Terra. Oh the bulb I just have in a regular desk lamp, if that's not okay I can definitely change that. I asked about any sort of heat source and I was told he shouldn't need any, but I am worried about it as my house got down to 68 degrees last night.

I want to give my new baby the best home possible so if there's anything I should change or improve I am more than happy to do so!
Thanks in advance.


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## Maggie Cummings (Nov 8, 2010)

Many people don't think box turtles need heat at night, but I do. Especially for babies. I use just a plain incandescent black light bulb for night and you'll need a UVB light for the day time.
The Sun Glo bulb in not a UVB and you'll want one.


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## Yvonne G (Nov 8, 2010)

Hi Turtle_Gal:

Welcome to the forum!! May we know your name?

Box turtles are one of my favorites. I also think like Maggie does, that baby box turtles should be kept warm at night. And I also use a black light at night.

Just keep in mind that baby box turtles are so small that they dehydrate quickly. So keep the habitat moist and soak the baby every day.

If you have trouble getting him to eat, try putting live black worms in his soaking water. Black worms are those teeny worms you buy to feed aquarium fish. They used to be called tubifex worms until the tubifex worms got a bad rap.


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## turtle_gal (Nov 8, 2010)

Thanks for your quick replies! I'm Tori and I think I'm going to call my boxie Cuddles until I'm able to determine the sex haha Maybe it will stick.

Any suggested wattage? He's in a 10 gallon tank right now, might move to 20. Also is the mesh top letting in all the light he needs? I know I read something about that. For daily soaking is it okay to take him out of his burrow? I just want to make sure I won't be stressing him or anything if I do that. And I read about 5 degrees above the air temperature?

Thanks for that tip about feeding! I was told I only have to feed him twice a week, but I've been reading through the turtle tails site and it sounds like they feed their babies daily. Any suggestions on pelleted foods? The man I got him from said he's never fed pellets.

Thank you so much again! I'm just trying to get a good range of what different people do.


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## Yvonne G (Nov 8, 2010)

Hi Tori:

I feed babies every day.

You're right in thinking that the mesh might not be letting the UV light through. 

The only pellet I use for box turtles is trout chow. I chop up some fruit...a couple different kinds, some frozen mixed veggies, some dark, leafy greens, some red leaf lettuce, some trout chow (I soak it in hot water to soften it) and some canned cat food. Mix it all up and freeze it in plastic ice cube trays. You have to chop everything up very small for tiny mouths. When I want to feed it to the babies, I pop a couple of them out of the tray and let it thaw. The babies eat it right up. You can experiment with different fruits and veggies. Sometimes I'll put some meal worms on top when serving it, or maybe some red worms.

Yes, you have to take him out of his hiding place to soak him. I test the water with my wrist, just like you would do for a baby bottle formula. You want the water to be warm but not hot. 

I'd love to see pictures of your little baby.


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## terryo (Nov 8, 2010)

Most Eastern Box turtles come from wooded areas, and stay hidden under leaf litter and will eat any little insect that comes by. Everyone has a different way of raising hatchlings. This is what I do. Mine are in a 20 gal. tank. I have soil mixed with peat moss for substrate. ( or bed a beast). I put lots of plants for hiding and keeping in the humidity. I like to put some moss or ground cover so they will dig in the moss instead of the soil. I don't use a hide for hatchlings. I put plenty of long fiber moss on one side (or green terrarium moss) for them to dig under. I use a heat emitter on one side for heat alone..no light...on the other side I put a long tube 5.0 UVB with a light fixture for a 10 gal tank. I plant the tropical plants right in their little pots, so the substrate is high enough to reach up to the rim of the pot. There is a flat piece of slate for feeding on and a water dish, low enough for them to climb in and out of. I push the water dish into the substrate for easy access. I throw in some pill bugs and small worms, for them to find on their own.
High warm humidity and low light works best for me. The heat emitter stays on 24/7 and the light goes off at night.
I start them off by feeding soaked trout chow, or baby water turtle pellets, blood worms, pill bugs, or small crickets. As they get older I gradually add fruit, and greens. I also get canned venison and mix that up with some chopped veggies, or greens....sometime's mazuri.
I hope this helps you. Everyone has their own way of doing things, this is just what has worked for me.
This is a little three toed hatchling in a planted vivarium. Actually he's a year old now. My youngest right now. 






This is a little Eastern that was too small to stay outside for the Winter.




He just finished eating his Mazuri mixed with greens...mazuri mouth.
Post some pictures of your hatchling.


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## turtle_gal (Nov 8, 2010)

Thank you so much for your detailed information, Terry! That helps a lot. Is the Forest Moss by Exo Terra I have him on okay? I guess I don't understand the need for soil if the plants are in their own pots; or do you have other plants not in pots? May I also ask what kind of plants you have in there?

I was actually out looking at ceramic heat emitters while I was at the pet store tonight and thought that looked like the way to go. What wattage would you suggest for the 10 or 20 gallon tank? I'll probably move him to that very soon. Which side do you put the water dish on? I just know with the snakes we keep the water on the cool side because if it gets too warm they won't go in it, don't know if its the same with these guys.

Sorry for all the questions. I feel like I've asked a million! Oh and I took some pictures on my phone today but its not being cooperative and uploading. I'll have to find my camera and take some tomorrow when I have him out for you all


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## terryo (Nov 8, 2010)

I use a 60 wt. heat emitter on one side. I have a screen cover and the heat emitter is on a stand
http://www.carolinapetsupply.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=44&products_id=365
leaning on the screen cover. I like the stand, because I can raise it or lower it for more heat. On the other side I have the long tube light fixture with the 5.0 UVB resting on the screen top.
I try to mimic the forest floor as much as I can for the little ones that have to stay inside for the Winter. 
I like the soil mix because it helps keep the tank clean, and the little pill bugs hide in there under the slate that they eat on. I also put some leaf litter in there and a little creeping jenny, which is a ground cover. I just use tropical house plants. I've never had any trouble with them eating anything but their food.....but most plants are OK anyway. 
This is the little Three Toed...see all the green moss on one end. That's where she digs under





This is a little Eastern, hiding in the moss.





One more thing...boby boxies dehydrate very quickly. I always spray the plants and moss to keep up the humidity....warm water.


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## turtle_gal (Nov 10, 2010)

Thanks again for all the great information! I'm using it all to upgrade his enclosure  But I haven't gotten him to eat  I've offered thawed frozen bloodworms, kale and mustard greens, and a meal worm. Two days ago I thought he was eating the meal worm but when he moved on it looked like he really just kinda played with it, didn't really ingest any of it. Yesterday he wasn't interested at all. I've been to just about every pet and fish shop in town and no one carries the black worms or trout chow. I was told they could order it but it would be in very large bulk. At one fish shop I was given two ghost shrimp to try with him, and at a bait shop I got live red worms. These should be okay, right? I know they can fast for a long time, but it is bothering me he hasn't eaten yet...


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## Torty Mom (Nov 10, 2010)

My boxie is 11, 9 when I got him and we had a bit of tough love going on. He lived on raw hamburger meat before I got him, it seemed like it took forever to get him to eat the mealworms. He was one hungry little turtle!! He loves pill bugs and his mealworms!! Good luck and keep trying!!


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## terryo (Nov 10, 2010)

turtle_gal said:


> Thanks again for all the great information! I'm using it all to upgrade his enclosure  But I haven't gotten him to eat  I've offered thawed frozen bloodworms, kale and mustard greens, and a meal worm. Two days ago I thought he was eating the meal worm but when he moved on it looked like he really just kinda played with it, didn't really ingest any of it. Yesterday he wasn't interested at all. I've been to just about every pet and fish shop in town and no one carries the black worms or trout chow. I was told they could order it but it would be in very large bulk. At one fish shop I was given two ghost shrimp to try with him, and at a bait shop I got live red worms. These should be okay, right? I know they can fast for a long time, but it is bothering me he hasn't eaten yet...


Trout chow is equivalent to Koi food, that you can get in any pet store. You can also feed soaked Reptomin (water turtle food), or turtle brittle. Just don't soak it too much as it turns to mush. Put a drop of water in a little tub with whatever food you are giving, put the hatchling in the tub, and then put it right in his enclosure. Leave him alone in there for a while. I do this if I get a new baby . He will feel secure in his own enclosure, instead of on a table with people watching him eat. 
I put this little guy in a plastic tub and just put it right in his vivarium, with a wax worm.





These are some frozen blood worms (before I put the little tub in his enclosure.





The worse thing is watching them eat. If you have a little saucer from a plant (very small one) you can also put a little water in there and put some Reptomin in and just leave it in his enclosure. 
Don't worry they can go a long time without eating. Just make sure there is plenty of humidity it there. The walls of the tank should look foggy. These are the things that work for me. I'm sure others have done things differently with great success too.
This is a hatchling, isn't it? How old is he?


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## Yvonne G (Nov 10, 2010)

I'd like to stress one point that Terry made: Put him in the water with the food in his habitat, then quickly step out of his sight. You are the big monster waiting to gobble up the little prey item box turtle.


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## turtle_gal (Nov 10, 2010)

Okay, I definitely feel a little slow asking for trout food when they had koi fish food right there haha So that is what you all use even though its mostly vegetable based? I have been putting his feeding slate inside his enclosure but I am guilty of standing there watching him  I had also thawed the blood worms then piled them on the slate, so tonight I tried the way you showed in your picture, Terry. I didn't look like he'd eaten any but the temperature in his tank was just under 70, could that have anything to do with it? I just set up his CHE so hopefully that won't be a problem. Humidity has been staying about 70 to 80.

I believe he hatched this year but I'm not positive of his age. In the picture I attached he's next to a quarter for size comparison.

I'm so glad I joined this forum!


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## terryo (Nov 10, 2010)

Awww...he's just a little bitty thing. Try this...before you put him in the viv to eat, spray the whole enclosure with warm water. Then put a little water in the tub, add the blood worms, and put the little tub in the just sprayed enclosure. Go away...and let him eat by himself. The blood worms, even thought they are dead, will wiggle a little in the water when he moves, and he might go for them. It's always hard to start these little guys eating, so don't give up. Read this page from TurtleTails...scroll down to feeding baby land turtles. Read everything, and I'm sure it will help you.
http://turtle_tails.tripod.com/raisingbabyturtles/tour10.htm

this is what Tom from TurtleTails said in one paragraph....but read the whole page.
" When we placed the five baby box turtles in this vivarium about five days after they hatched, we placed several large pellets of food on the dish and moistened them with water. The turtles found hiding places as expected. Each day they were given clean water and fresh food. After just a few days it was obvious that the food was being eaten. That does not mean we saw them eating; we don't."


Keep us posted on his progress.


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## sara (Nov 11, 2010)

terryo said:


> I use a 60 wt. heat emitter on one side. I have a screen cover and the heat emitter is on a stand
> http://www.carolinapetsupply.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=44&products_id=365
> leaning on the screen cover. I like the stand, because I can raise it or lower it for more heat. On the other side I have the long tube light fixture with the 5.0 UVB resting on the screen top.
> I try to mimic the forest floor as much as I can for the little ones that have to stay inside for the Winter.
> ...


LOVE that last pic! like he saying " Peek a boo!! I see you, but you cant see meeee"!! too funny!


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## turtle_gal (Nov 12, 2010)

So, he still hasn't eaten, and I have more questions. Sorry! I did get the Reptomin floating sticks to leave with him though. I looked at Koi foods but there are so many to pick from! Does it really matter which kind to get and does he need it along with the Reptomin or is the koi food better, or what? Also, do I need to be putting calcium powder on his food (I guess whenever he starts eating)? I have cuttlebone in with him but do I still need to be adding calcium, or wait until he's older?

I'm also having some enclosure problems. I have the wire fixture of his CHE touching the mesh top but it still won't get the temperature above 80F during the day and it drops to about 68F at night, maybe a little lower. The humidity seems to be staying up pretty well, but the water in his dish seems to get mostly evaporated when I'm away, between mistings. Any suggestions for all this?
Thanks again!


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## turtle_gal (Nov 12, 2010)

Also wanted to add I'm still not sure about what plants to put in his tank :/ Could you maybe give me some ideas to get started. I just want to make sure I put in ones that will be good for him.

Oh, and from the picture do you have any idea how old he is? I feel like I'm asking too many questions.. lol


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## Edna (Nov 12, 2010)

terryo said:


> This is a little Eastern, hiding in the moss.



Terryo, how did this pic not make it into the calendar choices? It would have gotten my vote. Very sweet!


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## terryo (Nov 12, 2010)

Thanks Edna. That is Lil' Chewy that Yvonne gave to my Grandson. She has these big pop eyes...very comical little turtle.
Turtle_gal...what is your name, by the way?
I just use tropical house plants. Like those little palm trees, or moss or ferns...small one's.
You could get any kind of Koi food, or water turtle food...just put it in a little bit of water to soak. You could get some pill bugs...I used to order them from CarolinaPetSupply.com in the Winter, but now I raise my own. The hatchlings love the pill bugs..(rollie pollie's) the frozen blood worms...small meal worms...wax worms...small red wigglers..cut them in half...small crickets.


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## Yvonne G (Nov 12, 2010)

Turtle_Gal = Tori


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## turtle_gal (Nov 15, 2010)

Again, I'm still wondering if anyone has suggestions on keeping the temperature up? I keep the ceramic heat emitter on constantly. I mist 2 or 3 times daily with lukewarm water. It won't get above 80 and at night goes below 70. I worry about him/her...


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## terryo (Nov 15, 2010)

I just checked my temperatures and on the side under the long tube light it's 76, and on the side under the heat emitter it's 83. I just shut off the light, and the it might go down a little..not much....on that side with the light. That's about what mine stay at. In a few more weeks when it gets cold here I'll cover the top with a towel or wrapping tape to get the temperatures up because I like my house on the cool side. So you might try covering the top with something. I have a screen top and I cover most of it with clear wrapping tape. (this is a 40 gal breeder tank that he's in now)


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## arpooch (Nov 15, 2010)

Are you keeping him in a tank? Because that can cause them a lot of stress. If you are I would suggest a very large rubbermaid container instead.


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## turtle_gal (Nov 15, 2010)

I don't think that will hold in the humidity very well. And I haven't heard of it causing them a lot of stress.


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## terryo (Nov 16, 2010)

arpooch said:


> Are you keeping him in a tank? Because that can cause them a lot of stress. If you are I would suggest a very large rubbermaid container instead.



Most long term box Turtle keepers (myself included and the one's that I personally know) keep hatchlings in a glass vivarium. It tends to hold in the humidity better than a tub. Small box turtles can dehydrate very quickly and need high humidity. I only cover the back and sides, and leave the front open so I can interact with mine, and get them used to me. If you feel that he's being stressed by being able to see out then you can cover the front, sides and back to about 6 in.


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## turtle_gal (Nov 17, 2010)

Thanks for all your help, Terry! You have provided me invaluable information!

However, s/he still hasn't eaten. We tried bloodworms again tonight so I can't be positive of where s/he ate any of them but it doesn't look like it. I'm starting to become discouraged; I feel like I'm doing something wrong. I've been misting the enclosure then taking him/her out to put in the soaking water while I prepare the food, then I put it in another container and put him/her inside and place it in the enclosure and leave. I've had him/her for over a week now, so I hope something changes soon.


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## terryo (Nov 17, 2010)

Don't give up. I've had box turtles hatch in the Summer and didn't find them until the following Summer. Keep offering small insets and small worms cut up...soak some pellets...small meal worms ...crickets....Check and make sure her eyes are open and clear...enclosure is warm enough...If nothing happens in a while you could try Kristina's baby food soaks.

http://tortoiseforum.org/Thread-Vitamin-soaks-baby-food-soaks-for-ailing-tortoises


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