# UVB BULBS TO AVOID:



## ZEROPILOT (Mar 15, 2021)

To simplify things when shopping for a uvb light for your tortoise...just remember:
"IF IT SCREWS IN, IT'S NOT GOOD."




These are all common pet shop uvb bulbs and they are all horrible.
An MVB and 2 different types of CFL.
(There are other configurations)
All of these are either ineffective, unreliable or even downright harmful.


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## ZEROPILOT (Mar 15, 2021)

The good news is that buying the correct UVB light isn't even neccesarily more expensive. Just a bit harder to find.
This is a REPTISUN T5.(I use these)
There is also a slightly better T5 sold by ARCADIA.
Get a 5.0 or 6% depending on manufacturer for Forrest species or a 10.0 or 12% for desert species


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## nootnootbu (Mar 15, 2021)

ZEROPILOT said:


> The good news is that buying the correct UVB light isn't even neccesarily more expensive. Just a bit harder to find.
> This is a REPTISUN T5.
> There is also a slightly better T5 sold by ARCADIA.
> Get a 5.0 or 6% depending on manufacturer for Forrest species or a 10.0 or 12% for desert species
> View attachment 320952


Would a Russian tortoise need the 5.0/6%?


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## ZEROPILOT (Mar 15, 2021)

A 5.0 or a 10.0 would work.
I think that the 10.0 or 12% is what most Russian keepers use.


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## nootnootbu (Mar 15, 2021)

ZEROPILOT said:


> A 5.0 or a 10.0 would work.
> I think that the 10.0 or 12% is what most Russian keepers use.


I will make sure before I get it. I will get a couple of each type since I have a Russian, red foots, and sulcatas.


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## ZEROPILOT (Mar 15, 2021)

nootnootbu said:


> I will make sure before I get it. I will get a couple of each type since I have a Russian, red foots, and sulcatas.


Russians and Sulcata 10.0
Redfoot 5.0
LLL REPTILES and BIG AL'S PETS has the REPTISUN in stock online.
These are complete. Tube and fixture. Nothing more to buy.


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## nootnootbu (Mar 15, 2021)

ZEROPILOT said:


> Russians and Sulcata 10.0
> Redfoot 5.0


Thanks, do the hoods come in different lengths?
Also, can you tell me if these bulbs get super hot?


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## ZEROPILOT (Mar 15, 2021)

nootnootbu said:


> Thanks, do the hoods come in different lengths?
> Also, can you tell me if these bulbs get super hot?


No.
Very warm. But not too hot to touch.
They ad little to no heat to the enclosure like an incandescent.
There are several different lengths to suit your needs. Each length is a different wattage. (And different price) But that doesn't change the UVB levels.


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## nootnootbu (Mar 15, 2021)

ZEROPILOT said:


> No.
> Very warm. But not too hot to touch.
> They ad little to no heat to the enclosure like an incandescent.
> There are several different lengths to suit your needs. Each length is a different wattage. (And different price) But that doesn't change the UVB levels.


Alright, thank you so much for the info! I will make sure my babies all have the best possible lighting


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## nootnootbu (Mar 15, 2021)

Do you have a recommended supplier to buy these from with good prices? Or should I just get them from Amazon?


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## S2G (Mar 15, 2021)

I used lightyourreptiles.com Acardia 12% with fixture. I hung it 20" from substrate.


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## nootnootbu (Mar 15, 2021)

One more question. 
Do the regular heat lamps, just plain old basking spot bulbs, also do damage to a tort's eyes?


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## ZEROPILOT (Mar 15, 2021)

nootnootbu said:


> One more question.
> Do the regular heat lamps, just plain old basking spot bulbs, also do damage to a tort's eyes?


No. 
But they aren't really good for a Redfoot just because of the bright light.
I think a CHE or a heat panel is best for them.
Other tortoises that require heat and don't mind bright lights would be fine.


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## S2G (Mar 16, 2021)

My understanding is dont use a red light. Basking wise a sulcata & russian need the same type basking area. A redfoot or other forest tortoise doesnt need that.

While we're talking about lights & heat sources just be ultra careful not to dry everything out. If you blaze a che, uv, & basking light it will be an oven. Thermostat & timers are your best friend


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## ZEROPILOT (Mar 16, 2021)

S2G said:


> My understanding is dont use a red light. Basking wise a sulcata & russian need the same type basking area. A redfoot or other forest tortoise doesnt need that.
> 
> While we're talking about lights & heat sources just be ultra careful not to dry everything out. If you blaze a che, uv, & basking light it will be an oven. Thermostat & timers are your best friend


The red lights make items that aren't food look like food.
Redfoot need an ambient temperature in the lower 80s. They may or may not bask. They dislike bright lights and they overheat easily.
And yes. Getting everything dialed in takes time. But once you do, tortoise keeping becomes much easier and much more enjoyable.
Please, if you can, have EVERYTHING READY and running BEFORE you purchase your tortoise.
It'll sure take out a lot of the stress that comes with not being ready.


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## nootnootbu (Mar 16, 2021)

ZEROPILOT said:


> The red lights make items that aren't food look like food.
> Redfoot need an ambient temperature in the lower 80s. They may or may not bask. They dislike bright lights and they overheat easily.
> And yes. Getting everything dialed in takes time. But once you do, tortoise keeping becomes much easier and much more enjoyable.
> Please, if you can, have EVERYTHING READY and running BEFORE you purchase your tortoise.
> It'll sure take out a lot of the stress that comes with not being ready.




I did that with Franklin, my Russian, when I got him, as he did not come with his enclosure. 

In the case of my recent red foots and sulcatas, they came with their enclosures and all of their lights, so I'm having to rectify mistakes of the previous owner. The poor little red foots even have shell fungus.


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## Walnut's_pet (Mar 17, 2021)

Looking for input on why the two-in-ones are not a good choice. I'm not disputing this fact. I'm just looking for facts supporting it. I use these bulbs for my tortoise and bearded dragon (in combination with additional incandescent flood basking lamps and separate florescent UVB T8 for general lighting throughout the enclosure. They both like them and gravitate to them regularly during the day. The benefits of having UVB + heat makes a basking spot ideal. I will say that you have to be careful of the wattage/distance of these 2-in-ones because they are somewhat narrow beamed and intense which can burn lizards or damage shells if too strong/close. I have not measured UVB to validate vendors claims. Would appreciate hearing individual's experiences. Thanks


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## harrythetortoise (Mar 17, 2021)

Walnut's_pet said:


> they are somewhat narrow beamed and intense which can burn lizards or damage shells if too strong/close.



This is one reason. Plus, they have unreliable UVB output.


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## Walnut's_pet (Mar 17, 2021)

Thanks for the reply. That prompted me to start researching SBMV (self-ballasted mercury vapor bulbs) more closely. Aside from the dangers of over exposure, noted above. Another common downside, is that the there is a steep rate of decay over the early hours of life before the bulbs 'stabilize'. Perhaps this is why some consider them unreliable? Another knock on them (aside from price) is that they are relatively delicate (the self-ballasted ones only... external ballasted are not) and can burn out early due to vibration and other environmental conditions. However, the quality of the UVB, if you believe what you read online, is far superior to the UVB emitted by standard tube (florescent) bulbs. As mentioned above, I have not measured the UVB output of my current SBMV bulbs to validate this. Life expectancy of the SBMV is a topic of debate. Some claim SBMV have a longer viable UVB lifespan than standard florescent UVB lamps, while others say both are only viable for about six months. So leave it up to the individuals to decide for themselves. I think there is a case to be made for the MVs IF they are used correctly. Big question is whether the quality of UVB & additional heat factors of MV outweighs their cost, potential risks and possible instability. That having been said, there is nothing more stable than a good UVB florescent coupled with one or two incandescent floods and/or CHE.
A couple of sources I read. *http://www.reptileuvinfo.com/docs/facts-about-mercury-vapor-bulbs.pdf , https://www.moonvalleyreptiles.com/reptile-resources/reptile-uvb-lighting, *


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## ZEROPILOT (Mar 17, 2021)

I've done some pretty un scientific tests on MVB bulbs (and others)
The UV levels vary WILDLY from bulb to bulb. The heat output varies and can he very desicating and the light output in general is too harsh for any shade loving tortoise like my Redfoot. And they are unreliable and don't last long on top of all of that.
Since the cost is the same as a good quality T5 linear UVB tube with the fixture, I try to help new members from wasting money on the MVB.
EVERY PET SHOP HAS THEM.
So, it's very common that keepers buy them. And those crazy, outdated spiral CFLs.
Your T8 can provide adequate UVB. But it must be within 6 or 8 inches of the animal and not required to pass through a screen. A screen blocks out at least 40% of the useful UVB.
A T5 usually must be purchased online. For some reason pet shops are slow to move into the 21st century.
A healthy T5 5.0 or 6% can provide a uv level of 3 at 10" through a screen top and a 10.0 or 12% can nearly double that.
They're very effective.
And not very expensive.


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## nootnootbu (Mar 18, 2021)

S2G said:


> My understanding is dont use a red light. Basking wise a sulcata & russian need the same type basking area. A redfoot or other forest tortoise doesnt need that.
> 
> While we're talking about lights & heat sources just be ultra careful not to dry everything out. If you blaze a che, uv, & basking light it will be an oven. Thermostat & timers are your best friend



I'm planning to use only the UVB tubes and CHEs for heat, with the red foots and the Russian.


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## nootnootbu (Mar 18, 2021)

ZEROPILOT said:


> Your T8 can provide adequate UVB. But it must be within 6 or 8 inches of the animal and not required to pass through a screen. A screen blocks out at least 40% of the useful UVB.



You mean a screen with narrow mesh? I am planning to use DIY screens (just around the lights) that are made from hardware cloth with much larger square holes between wires. If this is problematic, I can suspend the lights from the hardware cloth instead.


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## ZEROPILOT (Mar 18, 2021)

nootnootbu said:


> You mean a screen with narrow mesh? I am planning to use DIY screens (just around the lights) that are made from hardware cloth with much larger square holes between wires. If this is problematic, I can suspend the lights from the hardware cloth instead.


Hardware mesh would definitely be less restrictive. But how much less would be a guess.
Let's guess 20%.


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## nootnootbu (Mar 18, 2021)

ZEROPILOT said:


> Hardware mesh would definitely be less restrictive. But how much less would be a guess.
> Let's guess 20%.


I would guess it would be a complicated equation to figure out based on the size of the squares too. 
Wherever possible, I will use it to suspend the lights from rather than placing them on top of it, at least for the UV.


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## ZEROPILOT (Mar 18, 2021)

nootnootbu said:


> I would guess it would be a complicated equation to figure out based on the size of the squares too.
> Wherever possible, I will use it to suspend the lights from rather than placing them on top of it, at least for the UV.


I've done the same before with short wood screws and large fender washers.


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## ZEROPILOT (Mar 18, 2021)

Without a UVB meter it's all a guess.
Though I have an assortment of lights and I can test several combinations for reference.


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## Walnut's_pet (Mar 19, 2021)

Hanging the lights whether from ceiling hooks or lamp stands has worked best for me. Aside from ensuring the UVB is not reduced, it has the added benefit that you do not need to move the lights around during cleaning. Also, as noted above, the T5s put out more light/UVB and use less energy. I used T8s, personally, because I happened to have a lot of T8 fixtures is stock.


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## ZEROPILOT (Mar 19, 2021)

Walnut's_pet said:


> Hanging the lights whether from ceiling hooks or lamp stands has worked best for me. Aside from ensuring the UVB is not reduced, it has the added benefit that you do not need to move the lights around during cleaning. Also, as noted above, the T5s put out more light/UVB and use less energy. I used T8s, personally, because I happened to have a lot of T8 fixtures is stock.


Ceiling hooks and light swag chains are an excellent way of being able to quickly and easily raise or lower your light.


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## ZEROPILOT (Mar 19, 2021)

I was kind of hoping that IF IT SCREWS IN IT'S NO GOOD would become a catch phrase.


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## Mrs.Jennifer (Mar 19, 2021)

Walnut's_pet said:


> Hanging the lights whether from ceiling hooks or lamp stands has worked best for me. Aside from ensuring the UVB is not reduced, it has the added benefit that you do not need to move the lights around during cleaning. Also, as noted above, the T5s put out more light/UVB and use less energy. I used T8s, personally, because I happened to have a lot of T8 fixtures is stock.


I too hang the basking floodlight, CHE and UVB tube fixtures from the ceiling of my RT's closed PVC chamber "ceiling." I screw cup hooks into the PVC and use decorative chain to raise and lower as necessary. I live in Connecticut, so four seasons requires some minor tweaking at times. I also hang plants from cup hooks screwed into the top. It looks nice, creates dangling vegetation, eliminates trampling and help keeps the humidity up.


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## Walnut's_pet (Mar 19, 2021)

ZEROPILOT said:


> I was kind of hoping that IF IT SCREWS IN IT'S NO GOOD would become a catch phrase.


Give it time... it'll catch


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## Walnut's_pet (Mar 19, 2021)

Mrs.Jennifer said:


> I too hang the basking floodlight, CHE and UVB tube fixtures from the ceiling of my RT's closed PVC chamber "ceiling." I screw cup hooks into the PVC and use decorative chain to raise and lower as necessary. I live in Connecticut, so four seasons requires some minor tweaking at times. I also hang plants from cup hooks screwed into the top. It looks nice, creates dangling vegetation, eliminates trampling and help keeps the humidity up.


I'm in roughly the same neck of the woods. Would you mind sharing where you found the expanded PVC? I saw 1/2" on Home Depot site, but it doesn't look to be available in the stores. I think 3/4 would be better anyway. I noticed an earlier post you made about Exp PVC and there was also a post a short while ago by a member with an 'incredible' table top enclosure made out of Exp PVC, i'm feeling inspired. I'll maybe make trip to a couple of the nearby home depots this w/e


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## Mrs.Jennifer (Mar 19, 2021)

Walnut's_pet said:


> I'm in roughly the same neck of the woods. Would you mind sharing where you found the expanded PVC? I saw 1/2" on Home Depot site, but it doesn't look to be available in the stores. I think 3/4 would be better anyway. I noticed an earlier post you made about Exp PVC and there was also a post a short while ago by a member with an 'incredible' table top enclosure made out of Exp PVC, i'm feeling inspired. I'll maybe make trip to a couple of the nearby home depots this w/e


I used ½" that I found at Home Depot (Uncasville, CT). ¾" isn't necessary. Be aware that it is quite messy when you cut it, but it is so worth it. I finally can stop worrying constantly about humidity. Of course mine is a closed chamber. I highly recommend over a tortoise table here in CT.


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## Mrs.Jennifer (Mar 19, 2021)

Walnut's_pet said:


> I'm in roughly the same neck of the woods. Would you mind sharing where you found the expanded PVC? I saw 1/2" on Home Depot site, but it doesn't look to be available in the stores. I think 3/4 would be better anyway. I noticed an earlier post you made about Exp PVC and there was also a post a short while ago by a member with an 'incredible' table top enclosure made out of Exp PVC, i'm feeling inspired. I'll maybe make trip to a couple of the nearby home depots this w/e











Veranda 1/2 in. x 48 in. x 8 ft. White PVC Trim H120AWS6 - The Home Depot


Prevent dents and weather damage to your home with this Veranda HP White PVC Trim. Perfect for windows and siding, this lightweight, solid board offers water, mold and mildew resistance. Fire-retardant



www.homedepot.com


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## Walnut's_pet (Mar 19, 2021)

Thank you for the info. Walnut is currently in a table top (consisting of two of those 'tortoise homes' combined end-to-end). Its not nearly as large as I'd like, but its something I'm working to correct. So far, the ambient humidity hovers between 40-60%. This particular set up has not seen a full summer, yet, but given CT and our famous Hazy Hot & Humid days, I would imagine the humidity may reach well above 80%. The enclosed area (which serves as a humid hide) is around 70%). I have a couple of aquariums going in the same small room so it helps with humidity. Ambient air temps are 65-75 during the day and down to 60-65 during the night. Of course summer will raise everything by about 10 degrees. So, it does the job, but it looks like crap and I would like to go bigger (if my wife doesn't throw me out first)


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