# Death by heatstroke? An unfortunate first post.



## KerrMetric (Oct 22, 2013)

I've come on this forum for information every once in a while in the past, but never found the need to make an account. It's unfortunate that my first post be made under such circumstances.

I've had a baby leopard tortoise for about 9 months now. This was my first tortoise, but I have raised turtles for the past ~17 years since I was a kid. My first turtle is still with me, a 17+ year old male red-eared slider and still going strong. This leopard tortoise has been doing fine for the time I've had it as far as I could tell. 

Last week, I decided to upgrade its enclosure as it was starting to get a little larger. I used ground coconut substrate, and made sure to include shade and a water dish. I soak my tortoise every day, with few exceptions. Just today, I upgraded the heating bulb to a 75 watt bulb to accommodate the larger habitat along with the UV bulb.

Big mistake.

The bulb was about 13-14in away, and temperatures could not have exceeded 90 degrees from what I could tell. At first, the tortoise seemed happy with the new setup. I checked back on it in about an hour after turning the new light on and it seemed fine and active. About an hour and a half later, when I went to feed it, it seemed like it was sleeping out in the open. It was then I noticed there was some substrate stuck on its face. I picked it up to take a look, and noticed that it was a little hot to the touch. I immediately put it in a dish of room-temperature water to soak and cool off. However, it was unresponsive. Its head and front limbs are partially retracted, and its eyes are closed. It doesn't appear to be breathing.

This all happened about an hour ago, and nothing's changed. It's still completely unresponsive. I'm fairly sure it's gone, but how long should I wait until I bury it?

Just feel like crap at the moment, was looking to make my tortoise's life better and ended up killing it. As they say, the road to hell is paved with good intentions. Don't know what I'll do with this new enclosure and all this tortoise stuff now. Don't think I'll want to get another tortoise anytime soon. Maybe I'll raise some hermit crabs it.


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## wellington (Oct 22, 2013)

Hello and Welcome. I am so sorry for the circumstance that brought you to post. Was there any signs of it looking like he was digging? It sounds like he may have flipped under the light?, with the substrate stuck to his face. An hour basking under 90 degrees would to have killed him. However, an hour on his back under the 90 degrees possibly could have. Don't blame yourself, you were doing a very good thing for him. It's just unfortunate, that some went wrong. If you are sure he is gone, then bury him. If you think there is still a slim chance he isn't, keep soaking him. Again, I am so sorry.


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## KerrMetric (Oct 22, 2013)

wellington said:


> Hello and Welcome. I am so sorry for the circumstance that brought you to post. Was there any signs of it looking like he was digging? It sounds like he may have flipped under the light?, with the substrate stuck to his face. An hour basking under 90 degrees would to have killed him. However, an hour on his back under the 90 degrees possibly could have. Don't blame yourself, you were doing a very good thing for him. It's just unfortunate, that some went wrong. If you are sure he is gone, then bury him. If you think there is still a slim chance he isn't, keep soaking him. Again, I am so sorry.



He wasn't flipped over when I found him, and there isn't really anything in the enclosure that I think could have caused him to flip over. 

I think he might have been trying to dig, given the substrate on his face and the fact that he was slightly recessed in the substrate when I found him. I've got a fair amount of substrate on the bottom of the tank, about 1.5." I suppose that's a sign that he was trying to get away from the heat. However, the shelter wasn't so far away that it was inaccessible, it was only about 6 inches away from where I found him.


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## Kirin (Oct 22, 2013)

I'm sorry about your baby.


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## wellington (Oct 22, 2013)

Did he have water available 24/7 and did you give warm water soaks everyday for 20-30 minutes? The only other thing I can think of is if he was dehydrated and it finally did him in? Are you sure the temp gun is reading correctly. Maybe check that on something that you know the temperature of.


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## KerrMetric (Oct 22, 2013)

wellington said:


> Did he have water available 24/7 and did you give warm water soaks everyday for 20-30 minutes? The only other thing I can think of is if he was dehydrated and it finally did him in? Are you sure the temp gun is reading correctly. Maybe check that on something that you know the temperature of.



Yes, I always kept the water dish filled. I'm fairly certain he wasn't dehydrated, because I try to soak him every day. I keep him in the water until he tries to get out or after about half an hour. Sometimes if I don't take him out he'd like to stay for hours on end in the water. I'm fairly certain my thermometer isn't reading incorrectly, but I'll check. I also kept the back of my hand in the enclosure at the surface for a while to test the temperature and it didn't feel hot at all. The substrate he was in was also cool to the touch despite him being a little hot.


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## Tom (Oct 22, 2013)

There is no way that a 90 degree hotspot would kill him like that. My entire closed chamber enclosure would get up to about 93-94 in the summer with all my leopards in there, and I still had a 100+ basking spot that they would use even in that heat and humidity. The entire enclosure would have to be well over 100 degrees with nowhere to escape the heat for hours on end to kill a leopard tortoise. I think something else killed him or your thermometer is wayyyyyyyyy off.

Either way, I'm sorry to hear that your baby has died. In this sort of situation I always like to try and find out what went wrong. I find comfort in knowing, and I always hope that knowing will help someone else avoid the same tragedy. You let us know if you feel differently.


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## AnnV (Oct 22, 2013)

Sorry for your loss. I hate losing an animal to unknown causes. It is torture.


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## AZtortMom (Oct 22, 2013)

I am very sorry for the loss of your baby


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## skottip (Oct 22, 2013)

Sorry to hear about your loss. We have all experienced that horrific experience in one way or another. At least I have more than I care to remember. I remember I built a beautiful outdoor enclosure to house my Burmese Stars about 6 years ago,and came home to find one flipped over and basically cooked in the Florida summer sun. We all learn from our mistakes. That one just happened to be much more expensive than most.
Where are you located? I would be more than happy to give you a baby Red Foot tortoise if you would like one. I have been breeding them for quite some time and I have some hatchlings now. If you are willing to pay for shipping, I would be happy to give you something to put in that new enclosure.
You can PM me if this is something you would consider...


Scott


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## KerrMetric (Oct 22, 2013)

Tom said:


> There is no way that a 90 degree hotspot would kill him like that. My entire closed chamber enclosure would get up to about 93-94 in the summer with all my leopards in there, and I still had a 100+ basking spot that they would use even in that heat and humidity. The entire enclosure would have to be well over 100 degrees with nowhere to escape the heat for hours on end to kill a leopard tortoise. I think something else killed him or your thermometer is wayyyyyyyyy off.
> 
> Either way, I'm sorry to hear that your baby has died. In this sort of situation I always like to try and find out what went wrong. I find comfort in knowing, and I always hope that knowing will help someone else avoid the same tragedy. You let us know if you feel differently.



My thermometer doesn't appear to be off. I'm a little puzzled by this too. Even if the light was too hot, shade was just mere inches away and there was a full dish of water on the other side of the enclosure. How sensitive are baby leopard tortoises to heat, exactly? I don't know what else could explain my tortoise being fine one moment and dead two and a half hours later after the installation of a new heat bulb.


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## KerrMetric (Oct 22, 2013)

skottip said:


> Sorry to hear about your loss. We have all experienced that horrific experience in one way or another. At least I have more than I care to remember. I remember I built a beautiful outdoor enclosure to house my Burmese Stars about 6 years ago,and came home to find one flipped over and basically cooked in the Florida summer sun. We all learn from our mistakes. That one just happened to be much more expensive than most.
> Where are you located? I would be more than happy to give you a baby Red Foot tortoise if you would like one. I have been breeding them for quite some time and I have some hatchlings now. If you are willing to pay for shipping, I would be happy to give you something to put in that new enclosure.
> You can PM me if this is something you would consider...
> 
> ...



That's unfortunate. Sorry for your loss.

I'm fine, really. I don't think I'd be comfortable picking up another tortoise too soon after the death of this one. Also I live in California, which is quite a ways from Florida. I don't feel comfortable with the prospect of shipping a hatchling such a distance. I hope your hatchlings find a good home.


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## BeeBee*BeeLeaves (Oct 22, 2013)

Ohhhh noooo. This is a very sad thread. I am so very sorry that you experienced this. And thank you for sharing in case it helps others later. It is a mystery, because I agree with Tom, that 90 degrees not on his back, should not have ... it is hard to say what happened. I hope you find peace. Your intentions were very good. You wanted a better place for your baby.


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## AnnV (Oct 23, 2013)

What a very nice gesture, Scott.


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## diamondbp (Oct 23, 2013)

Sorry for your loss. As stated before, every experienced owner has a few unfortunate stories they can tell. But the worse ones are the ones that remain a mystery. Best of luck to you

I agree Scott that's an awesome gesture !


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## Pokeymeg (Oct 25, 2013)

That is a very nice gesture, Scott! 

@kerrmetric, I don't blame you. After I lost my baby tort last year, I opted to buy an adult next time and have been very happy with the decision. Losing a baby is extra hard, I'm sorry for your loss


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## Tom (Oct 25, 2013)

Leopards are not anymore heat sensitive than any other species, and probably less sensitive than some. I've had my babies in 100+ degree weather (they had plenty of shade) with no issues ever. Phoenix is a Mecca of tortoises and nearly everybody keeps their leopards outside there. Temps are over 90 there most of the year.

This sounds more like poisonous fumes, toxicity, or something of that nature.

Did you see any other symptoms? Anything noteworthy about where and how it was sitting?


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