# Please help if you can (lump on throat)



## Ron Cobb (Aug 4, 2014)

Hello:

Let me start off as I'm a good papa of my speedy. I bought him 15 years ago for my son and after a divorse, I kept him, he's 15 years old. I noticed JUST recently his lower jaw/throat swollen. He (we will call him a "he" since I have no idea if it's female or male). Anyway he eats like a horse, loves my attention, even loves my doggies. BUT, with the swelling on his jaw/throat I have been concerned.

Now before everyone says "you should have taken him to vet" one must learn I live in a rural area and haven't found one. Please take a look at the pictures I have included, help me with suggestions and most of all, don't kick a turtles Daddy while he's down.

Emails to my email addy is most appreciated since I may not see what you all have to say if I need to check this great forum, remember I'm a newbie.

Thank you all !

Ron


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## Yvonne G (Aug 4, 2014)

Hi Ron, and welcome to the Forum!!

Does Speedy live outside? His beak is ever so long and needs to be ground down or trimmed. I've never seen the lump like what Speedy has, but I'm afraid you're going to have to take him to a tortoise vet. If you look in our http://www.tortoiseforum.org/forums/tortoise-vet-list.126/ section and choose your state, then find your city. I hope we have a vet shown there that is not too far from you.

Speedy the Russian tortoise, needs to have a nice, large, safe outdoor pen. If he were biting off his food, grazing, then the beak wouldn't get that overgrown.

Please keep us informed as we all learn from threads like this. Hopefully its not something life threatening.


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## littleginsu (Aug 4, 2014)

I saw a video of a tortoise (might have been a turtle) with something similar and the Vet had to lance it because it was an abcess. Is it possible to get him to one of the recommended Vets?


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## Kim444 (Aug 4, 2014)

I may be wrong but his eyes look a little puffy as well, I really think he needs to see a vet even if you need to travel a bit to see one. Can you tell us what area you are in so we can help you search for one?


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## Ron Cobb (Aug 4, 2014)

Thank you ALL !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I live in Yucca Valley California but Palm Springs is probably the closest city that is truly a city. I will see if there is someone in that area pronto. By the way Yvonne he lives in a 50 gallon table aquarium that has been turned into his domain. I keep it clean and replace the (we will call it pet bark) often. AGAIN, I CAN NOT THANK YOU ALL enough !

As far as finding a vet, if anyone knows where there might be one, at this point travel distance or cost is no object (I'm simply stupid when it comes to a retile vet).

Thanks again,

Ron


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## Ron Cobb (Aug 4, 2014)

OK, I feel like a real idiot. I've been taking my babies (dogs) to a vet in Yucca Valley for 18 years and I just looked, they handle retiles ! I know all the doctors as friends so I think Speedy will not only be in goods hands but hopefully will be cured.

Thanks again folks and as soon as I find the reason and the out come I will keep you all in the loop. Guess I can finally get some sleep.

Ron


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## turtlelou (Aug 5, 2014)

Good luck


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## Ron Cobb (Aug 5, 2014)

Thank you Turtlelou, I've set up an appointment for "speedster" with my regular vet.

Ron


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## Madkins007 (Aug 5, 2014)

Good to see you here, and I hope things go well for you!


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## Yvonne G (Aug 5, 2014)

I wonder what goiter looks like. 

Have you been feeding a lot of goitrogens or cruciferous veggies (broccoli, cabbage, etc)?


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## Ron Cobb (Aug 5, 2014)

Hello Yvonne:

I feed her mainly just Romaine lettuce BUT I will gladly feed her what ever she needs as soon as I'm informed. You see, I'm really new at this with a turtle, but if you asked me about a dog, I could tie your ears up for hours. Please let me know, Speedy goes in (hopefully my friends at the vets office can move a few people around) this afternoon.

Thank you !

Ron

PS I have broccoli at home, would that help Speedster feel better until I get her in if I can't get her in until tomorrow. If not, what would make her more comfortable ?


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## Yvonne G (Aug 5, 2014)

NO! Broccoli and other cruciferous veggies are goitrogens, and too much of them cause the thyroid gland to swell. I'm betting that's what's wrong with your tortoise.


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## Ron Cobb (Aug 5, 2014)

Sooooooooooooooooooooo maybe the romaine is OK ? I read that's what to feed them. I've never gave Speedster anything but romaine, red and green leaf lettuce. What else could cause it ? Now keep in mind, since I'm an inexperienced turtle owner, I didn't know she needed water with her food, I thought she got her water through her food. So for 15 years, that's all she got. Now that I've talked to some of you fine peeps, I'm giving her water. Could this have something to do with dehydration ?
Man I'm feeling like more of an idiot as this goes on but one way or another, it's going to come out positive.

Ron


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## tortadise (Aug 5, 2014)

Ron Cobb said:


> Sooooooooooooooooooooo maybe the romaine is OK ? I read that's what to feed them. I've never gave Speedster anything but romaine, red and green leaf lettuce. What else could cause it ? Now keep in mind, since I'm an inexperienced turtle owner, I didn't know she needed water with her food, I thought she got her water through her food. So for 15 years, that's all she got. Now that I've talked to some of you fine peeps, I'm giving her water. Could this have something to do with dehydration ?
> Man I'm feeling like more of an idiot as this goes on but one way or another, it's going to come out positive.
> 
> Ron


I'd scrap all that your feeding. Stick with grasses and broad leaf weeds and greens.

Dandelions, escarole, endive, thistles, mallow, cactus fruit/pad, hibiscus leaves/flower and as much grass as possible. In the event it's winter or grocery store greens are to be bought and you can't find Endive, or dandelion greens your ok to get collar, mustard, and turnip greens. These are way more nutritious than romaine, and green leaf. Red leaf isn't that bad but there's better.


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## turtlelou (Aug 5, 2014)

The tort has never had water?


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## tortadise (Aug 5, 2014)

Oh boy I didn't read that part. Yeah she may need some fluids IV. At least soak her quite a bit.


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## Yvonne G (Aug 5, 2014)

He's probably missing quite a lot of vitamins and minerals that are required for healthy growth. Think about it - if a human wants to diet and lose weight he eats salads. Your tortoise needs a variety of different things to eat. In the wild they wander over great distances eating a bit from many different plants and weeds. Here's a list of foods taken from the site russiantortoise.org:


*GREENS*
Most grocery stores have a decent selection of greens that Russians readily eat. Ideally the greens should be organic and pesticide free. However this is the real world and not all tortoise keepers have access to "ideal" food. So, I have this section as a starting point for a varied diet. The following greens are easily found in my local stores:
Romaine lettuce (fed on occasion)
Red and green leaf lettuce (fed on occasion)
Endive
Escarole
Radicchio
Chicory
Turnip greens
Mustard greens
Kale
Collards
Spring Mix (mixed salad greens)
cabbage (fed on occasion)



With the above veggies one can develop a good diet. Once again (and I can't stress this enough) variety is the key!
Don't feed the same food day in and day out. Mix varieties and choose a different green as the basis every few days.

*OTHER GOOD CHOICES *
Some other favorites of my tortoises that are available:
Hibiscus (flowers and leaves)
Hosta
Sedum
Mulberry leaves
Hen and Chicks
Ice Plants
Prickly pear flowers, fruit and pads (burn the spines off)
Dandelion
Plantain (not the banana type fruit....the weed plantago major)
Mallow (flowers and leaves)
Henbit
Rose (flowers and leaves....make sure no systemic pesticides were used)
Chrysanthemum flowers
Cornflowers _Plagiobothrys ssp_
Forsythia (flowers and leaves)
Dayflower _Commelina diffusa _(flowers and leaves)
Californian Poppy _escholzia  
Chia Salvia hispanica_






Goiter (if that's what your tortoise has) is caused by an iodine deficiency, or by eating too much cruciferous veggies. I would say your tortoise probably has the deficiency due to a not very good diet.


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## Ron Cobb (Aug 5, 2014)

Wow.....................................Should I literally "soak" her in a bath of some type ? I'm sooooo sorry to be burning up all of you peoples time ! Looks like I need to take a few days off to tend to her, so much to get done in a short period of time. I have a rose bush that I DO NOT use pesticides, I can actually feed her that ? If so, I'm leaving my office and headed home for some nursing. 

Thank you all,

Ron


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## Yvonne G (Aug 5, 2014)

Hey, Ron...don't ever think that you're burning up our time. We wouldn't be on the Forum if we didn't want to talk to people. I only hope we can get your tortoise up and running and feeling better.

A tortoise of your tortoise's size usually doesn't get soaked, however we do provide a tray of water for the tortoise to self soak. I use a flower pot saucer that is bigger than the tortoise so that he can sit in it if he wants to. Otherwise, they just lean in and drink.


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## Ron Cobb (Aug 5, 2014)

Vons has an awesome organic line of veggies. Surely I ought to find the stuff on this list ?


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## Ron Cobb (Aug 5, 2014)

I have those dishes at home AND I have printed the entire forum answers I've been sent so I have a "grocery list" to hit Vons on the way home.


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## Yvonne G (Aug 5, 2014)

You can find quite a few different 'greens' in the produce department of Von's.

But if the tortoise has an enlarged pituitary gland (goiter), changing the diet isn't going to help. He still needs to be seen by a vet.


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## turtlelou (Aug 5, 2014)

Ron Cobb said:


> Wow.....................................Should I literally "soak" her in a bath of some type ? I'm sooooo sorry to be burning up all of you peoples time ! Looks like I need to take a few days off to tend to her, so much to get done in a short period of time. I have a rose bush that I DO NOT use pesticides, I can actually feed her that ? If so, I'm leaving my office and headed home for some nursing.
> 
> Thank you all,
> 
> Ron



Yes, you should get a container and soak her...not deep though. There should be enough water for her to soak but her head should be able to reach the air. 
Only feed the petals and leaves of the rose.


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## Ron Cobb (Aug 5, 2014)

I'm headed to Vons and then home so I'll be off for a spell. Thanks again, gonna do everything you all suggested as a start and see if I can't get her in earlier than appointed.


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## Ron Cobb (Aug 5, 2014)

Yes Yvonne, she's going to the vet no matter what so I can at least know what in the heck is wrong. I'm outta here.

Ron


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## Irwin4530 (Aug 5, 2014)

Keep us posted ! I hope he feels better soon! What kind if bedding do you use?

It is SO FUN it plan outdoor enclosures....do
You have an area where you
Could build one for
Him.....he will love you forever!!!


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## StarSapphire22 (Aug 5, 2014)

Other than the obvious issues right now that require medical attention, it sounds like there is quite a bit wrong with your husbandry. Check out the Russian care sheet in the top of the Russian section. Proper care will be crucial in recovery. Good luck!


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## Ron Cobb (Aug 5, 2014)

Hello Irwin and Star:

I have been using a mixer of soft pet soil (supposedly great for turtles per Pet Smart) and a light sand. I'm thinking after all my research there will be a whole lot of changes. One must realize again, I've had her for 15 uncomplicated years. I'm not a trained tortoise care taker and this all came up rather quickly.
Now.....................I stopped at the vets today, left the very same pictures of Speedy that are on this site and implored the office vet assistant to give them to my favorite vet and to have her call me immediately upon review. I have been using this "animal hospital" for 18 years and can not fathom what I've spent there. Though since VCA purchased them from the original doctors, I have seen a tremendous amount of turn over in doctors and staff, there is still a core of long timers that I know that are still employed there.
So you would think I would of at least got a courtesy call or at least a quick email back ???????????????????? NOPE ! Needless to say I DID buy some collard and mustard greens and put a perfectly sized flower pot run off tray full of water in her pen. She ate all the greens and took a soothing bath, loved it.
*Star*.....................I appreciate your concerns and direction you have given me. I take full blame in having a pet that I didn't have the proper knowledge in caring for. I also HOPE those of you that have corresponded with me appreciate the fact I have taken this matter quite seriously and not done what many people (my opinion) would do and simply not care and let the Speedster suffer until death. Yes my "husbandry" must have fallen short but I assure you, my love for Speedy never did. I thank you for the blessing of good luck ! Lastly Irwin, YES I have plenty of area to make an outside pen and will heed your suggestion just as soon as we are out of the water with my baby and her health issues.

I will attempt to keep you all in the loop of my efforts and the results as best as possible and I CAN NOT reiterate enough, *THANK YOU ALL !
Ron
*


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## Shakudo (Aug 6, 2014)

Ron Cobb said:


> Hello Irwin and Star:
> 
> I have been using a mixer of soft pet soil (supposedly great for turtles per Pet Smart) and a light sand. I'm thinking after all my research there will be a whole lot of changes. One must realize again, I've had her for 15 uncomplicated years. I'm not a trained tortoise care taker and this all came up rather quickly.
> Now.....................I stopped at the vets today, left the very same pictures of Speedy that are on this site and implored the office vet assistant to give them to my favorite vet and to have her call me immediately upon review. I have been using this "animal hospital" for 18 years and can not fathom what I've spent there. Though since VCA purchased them from the original doctors, I have seen a tremendous amount of turn over in doctors and staff, there is still a core of long timers that I know that are still employed there.
> ...




Hi Ron,


Boy you are hard on yourself, and I can understand that, I would be too.

But maybe it's time to forgive yourself, and realize you made mistakes, but unintentionally, and you are doing your uttermost best to correct it.

It's obvious you care a lot about Speedy and I am touched by that.
You'll find a lot of information here, on www.russiantortoise.net and on www.thetortoisetable.org.uk.

I hope everything works out for you and your tortoise.


Take care,

Joey


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## Kim444 (Aug 6, 2014)

Please just make an appointment with the Vet. They are just going to tell you to bring him in anyways, They will not be able to tell by a picture what the lump is. Most vets do not appreciate being asked what is wrong with my pet through a photo or phone call description, they will always ask to see the animal. He needs a beak trim no matter what and the lump will need to be seen/felt/lanced or possible biopsied by the vet. Blood work will need to be drawn, when they do call you, they will just tell you it could be a number of things and to bring him in.

I have a vet right near me that I bring my dog to that also handles exotics(birds,reptiles,rodents, etc..) however they do not specialize in reptiles so I travel 30 kms to a more specialized vet. It might be worth your while to look into the directory of vets we supplied to on this forum to see if there is a more specialized reptile vet near by. With a lump like that, I would want a specialist to look at it.

Glad you are working on better husbandry and diet for your tort. We can tell you love him.


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## Ron Cobb (Aug 6, 2014)

Hi Kim and all:

I should have been more clear on my vet photo issue. You see the are supposed to SQEEZE me in this afternoon, I ATTEMPTED to get in earlier by showing the photos in HOPES Dr. Smith (one of my friends I thought) would say, Geeeeez Ron, this is bad, get her in NOW ! I DO NOT like to see a "baby" of mine suffer, period ! I want to go to an establishment where I know the staff (though the turn around at my local vet hospital lately hampers that) and I've always been told by my vets, "what ever you need, we'll do it". Hence the photo given to review I have never turned to a forum nor do I make it a habit to ask for help from anyone but I offer my hand to anyone in need.

I have a saying I live by:
"If I could only save you or an animal from a speeding train, unfortunately you probably won't see tomorrow" That my dear friends of late is what I am made of.

Have a great day, I think will. I took today off hoping I get that call to get Speedy in pronto,

Ron


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## Irwin4530 (Aug 6, 2014)

Ron,
I am sure that your
Love and concern for speedy will lead to a full recovery  I hope your vet is able to get you in today....
(Sending positive thoughts!)

As soon as your ready we all love to help with and view new enclosures.


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## Ron Cobb (Aug 6, 2014)

Hey Joey:
Yes forgiveness comes at a price. Let me tell you a short story and everyone else out there should not misconstrue the reason for the story other than, just a story.
I head the legal department for a rather large construction equipment company and thus my time is scarce at best.
So as I'm headed to my office a mere 55 miles from my humble home I hear on a local radio station a Golden Retriever had dug her way out, got into a neighbors chicken coup and the neighbor shot her with a shot gun.
Now the owners were quite short on cash (I despise the word poor) and couldn't afford the surgery and care the "baby" would need to survive, so my local animal hospital had been taking donations via a open jar on the counter. Alarmed I turned around (here comes the short time issue), went back to my animal hospital and unfortunately there wasn't much money in the jar.
This was prior to VCA buying the old group out so I knew all of the staff quite well. "Angel" (her name I was then told) was going into surgery so I decided to park my butt in the waiting room to see the outcome and while doing so, I gave my friend there at the hospital a blank check and informed her I will cover all expenses including "after care".
This is the very hospital I was hoping for a little "back up" yesterday by leaving pictures, hence my disappointment and frustration.
Needles to say "Angel" pulled through, they let me see and kiss her in the recovery room before leaving, the check was filled out and I felt really good about myself. The rest is history, hope you enjoyed me being on my soap box. Again just a story but as said before, what I am made of.

Thank you for the concern and direction you have provided !

Ron


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## Kim444 (Aug 6, 2014)

Ron Cobb said:


> Hi Kim and all:
> 
> I should have been more clear on my vet photo issue. You see the are supposed to SQEEZE me in this afternoon, I ATTEMPTED to get in earlier by showing the photos in HOPES Dr. Smith (one of my friends I thought) would say, Geeeeez Ron, this is bad, get her in NOW ! I DO NOT like to see a "baby" of mine suffer, period ! I want to go to an establishment where I know the staff (though the turn around at my local vet hospital lately hampers that) and I've always been told by my vets, "what ever you need, we'll do it". Hence the photo given to review I have never turned to a forum nor do I make it a habit to ask for help from anyone but I offer my hand to anyone in need.
> 
> ...



oh I see, that makes complete sense. Hope you can get him seen and get some answers today.


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## Kim444 (Aug 6, 2014)

Ron Cobb said:


> Hey Joey:
> Yes forgiveness comes at a price. Let me tell you a short story and everyone else out there should not misconstrue the reason for the story other than, just a story.
> I head the legal department for a rather large construction equipment company and thus my time is scarce at best.
> So as I'm headed to my office a mere 55 miles from my humble home I hear on a local radio station a Golden Retriever had dug her way out, got into a neighbors chicken coup and the neighbor shot her with a shot gun.
> ...



I love that story, you are one of a kind, not everyone would do that. You were Angel's Angel.


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## Ron Cobb (Aug 6, 2014)

Hey Irwin:
Speedy is out and about and loving her personal swimming pool. Man she ate enough Mustard greens yesterday to feed a horse (actually she has always ate like that). I WILL get in today and we (there isn't an "I" in the word team) will prevail. So much love and concern shown my way on this matter, update to follow soon !

Ron


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## Ron Cobb (Aug 6, 2014)

Hey Kim:
Thanks but I'm no angel, hero or superman, but I am for real. What my calling is I truly believe I was put on this earth to help people and beloved animals, wild and pets, and not to ask much of others.
I'm nothing but a human with a heart, just as all of you I have corresponded with.
Take care my friend, I'll be on this forum and giving Speedster loving until I get the much wanted call from Doc. I will say I'll sleep comfortly (unlike little at best recently) when this is done,
Ron


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## Ron Cobb (Aug 6, 2014)

One last question and I swear I'll leave you peeps alone. Speedy ate all her mustard greens and explained earlier. I just gave her a big ole dish of collard greens and she's eating them also.

Question...................................can you over feed a turtle ? I don't want her becoming obese too  Man I'm getting punch drunk thank God I have a fantastic staff at work, I may be slobbering out of the corner of my mouth for days (just a little humor), laughter is the best medicine so they say.

Ron


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## Abdulla6169 (Aug 6, 2014)

Ron Cobb said:


> One last question and I swear I'll leave you peeps alone. Speedy ate all her mustard greens and explained earlier. I just gave her a big ole dish of collard greens and she's eating them also.
> 
> Question...................................can you over feed a turtle ? I don't want her becoming obese too  Man I'm getting punch drunk.
> 
> Ron


Ask all you want. Yes it's possible, you should just feed a good amount and leave him alone. He'd be obese if you fed him every short while, that's not a major issue until he can't get into his shell


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## Ron Cobb (Aug 6, 2014)

Appreciate the chuckle !

Ron


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## Ron Cobb (Aug 6, 2014)

Oh and by the way, before any ask. As far as the shooter of Angel, well the LEGAL (yes being well versed in animal law and yes again, there is a law for just about everything in this fine nation we live in) consequences and ramifications he had to deal with since using a very inhumane and illegal act of shooting Angel without at least calling animal control first was.............I will leave it to the fact I don't think he has nor ever will do a dirty deed such as he had.

Chow,

Ron


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## Kim444 (Aug 6, 2014)

I know Mr.T(my greek tort) is most hungry after his baths, so maybe his swimming is making him more hungry. I wouldn't worry about over feeding him at this point.


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## Ron Cobb (Aug 6, 2014)

Enough of waiting. I have found a herp vet down in the lower desert that took a look at the pictures after I called that said "bring it down now, it needs immediate attention. I've looked them up prior to sending the pics, they are rated as one of the best of the state.

You all take care of those pets that are a part of your life and most of all, take care of yourself,

Ron


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## Tactical Tort (Aug 6, 2014)

Good luck Ron! Were praying for your little one!
Look forward to a good update


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## Kim444 (Aug 6, 2014)

Ron Cobb said:


> Enough of waiting. I have found a herp vet down in the lower desert that took a look at the pictures after I called that said "bring it down now, it needs immediate attention. I've looked them up prior to sending the pics, they are rated as one of the best of the state.
> 
> You all take care of those pets that are a part of your life and most of all, take care of yourself,
> 
> Ron



That is great news, can't wait to hear the update. He will get great care.


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## Ron Cobb (Aug 6, 2014)

Hey all:
I did this in a different color so it stands out. Speedster is in good hands now. She is getting a facial, pedicure and manicure (beak trim and toe nail trimmings). Preliminary diagnoses is just what I believe Yvonne had said, Goiter. The cause...... lack of a real food regiment. She is so full of spunk, she gave the doctor a teaching in turtle mood. She's strong, her shell actually in great shape even without the proper diet. Due to my lack of knowledge and the fact I know she will be handled with the utmost care, I left her there for her first round of medications and "babying" . I pick her up Friday 3 PM ish and in the meantime, I will build her a palace a king would envy.
I write this with a bit of mist in my eyes only due to the overwhelming thoughts and drive YOU ALL have put into not only Speedy's rehabilitation but mine.
Bless you all !

Ron


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## Yvonne G (Aug 6, 2014)

What is the prognosis? I know that goiter is 'shrunk' and not removed like an abscess. Do they think with treatment they'll be able to shrink that swollen gland?


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## Ron Cobb (Aug 6, 2014)

Hi Yvonne:

Yes they not only "think" but they have assured me Speedy will be in perfect form in 6 to 8 weeks. I couldn't follow all the mumbo jumbo being thrown at me (I'm just a simple laymen) but I did and still have after our visit, is faith. Obviously I will get all the procedures done to Speedster in my final bill and I will scan and supply said information for all to see and possibly learn from.

I'm tired peeps, ashamed as to my attention given to the Speedster, I really need to lay my head on a pillow and "say good night to all"

Ron


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## Yvonne G (Aug 6, 2014)

Ron:

You've really been a trouper through all of this...and I'm so glad you you have decided to go all the way and get this tortoise fixed. Don't beat yourself up. Now that you know about all the help you can get here, the way you care for the tortoise is going to change. It's all good.


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## Tactical Tort (Aug 7, 2014)

Keep your chin up Ron! Get some well deserved rest.
Your tort will be ok. I have faith! Your a good daddy in changing to better your baby. I know a lot of people who wouldn't go to half the lengths you've ALREADY gone to.
No one's born knowing all. Don't beat yourself up anymore. You've done right and will continue in the direction needed.
It's common (so I'm finding) for misinformation to be out there in large quantity. Vets and keepers alike. Fact is not a lot of actual research out there on torts. This place (forum) is the ONLY place I've found passionate people and information with PROOF to back it up. It's hard to sift threw it all on the Internet. Then you come here and find Tom and Yvonne and others who have the time, knowledge and proof (pics etc) of long term care.
They passionately care about torts/turtles and the people who call them theirs. 
You've come to the right place. Stick around. Even after your Torts all better and happily living the life all torts deserve. 
There will always be changes in keeping a healthy tort. We never know it all.
Stay strong! Time will fly by and your tort will be healthy before you know it! 
Keep us posted!


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## Ron Cobb (Aug 7, 2014)

Words of Wisdom well accepted. I had already decide to stay in touch, like I said I have never used a forum board and I'm so self reliant, I don't ask for help but as you said so eloquently Tactical , there aren't many place to look to repair something like a turtle.

Oh yes, life will go on ! Got a lot of things to get done before tomorrow afternoon so I won't be hanging on the board much but I will keep ya all posted. You peeps are as passionate abort "torts" as I am about rescue dogs, man could I bend your ears on that. But Speedster is part of the family and thus my efforts to bring her back.
Adios for now friends,

Ron


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## Irwin4530 (Aug 7, 2014)

GReat news!!!


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## Kim444 (Aug 7, 2014)

Have you called to see how he is doing? Not sure I can wait until Friday afternoon for updates, lol


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## Yourlocalpoet (Aug 7, 2014)

Oh Ron. I just read this all the way through and hope all turns out well. You're a good 'en. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tortoise Forum


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## littleginsu (Aug 7, 2014)

Wishing Speedy a speedy recovery!!


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## turtlemanfla88 (Aug 7, 2014)

you are doing the right thing taking to the vet. I feed collard greens,turnip greens, pricky pear cactus (opuntia family), and mulberry leaves and the fruit. Also, i leave cuttle bones with allof my turtles and tortoises and it helps their beaks and a good calcium source.


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## Ron Cobb (Aug 8, 2014)

Hey peeps:

I accidently somehow had unchecked the alert me via email on messages with this forum,. So I took a look this morning. I stopped by yesterday and low and behold, the doctor was at lunch. Ummmmmm I don't know what a lunch break even is but I left work for the doctor to call me ONLY if there is any news that may need addressing. I've been scheduled for a couple of pre-trial conferences that opposing counsel(s) have been well informed, the conferences will be done by 2:30 sharp or they will hear nothing but a busy/dial tone on the other end.
I've also informed my local doctor I will be coming by with Speedster to not only get a second opinion but also for the staff to meet Speedy so I can get them accustomed to her in case of any further medical needs. Call it extra insurance. I hoping after today, except rehabilitation, this will all be nothing more than a bad dream.

Again sorry for the lack of communications, it was technical glitch.

Ron


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## Kim444 (Aug 8, 2014)

any news???


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## Ron Cobb (Aug 8, 2014)

Good evening:

Long day. Yes Speedy is the "guy" I had been calling "Sir" all these years, not a female as one of my new friends had said he was. Secondly, he's just fine !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! By the time I got home, made him a complete new indoor living quarters (see attached picture), made a small something to eat, I laid down and just woke up). Guessing I was tired ?

Took him to my local vet as mentioned and played quiz with Dr. Smith. Everything that I was told at the pro down below was what she had come up with. Original _preliminary"_ thought was goiter but after all the tests and full COMPLETE physical, it wasn't even that bad !
Seems after all, I had done better at taking care of him, just as some had said, a total bad food regiment . Anyway he is on his way to a healthy recovery. I did get schooled on a lot. I had been doing things backwards on many topics. I was heating his pen at night and the light off during the day whereas bot vets said, no, no. You keep the light on during they day and let him enjoy some coolness at night, just like a humans daily life goes. Sooooooooooooooooo much more I was taught, I listened, took notes like a law school pupil and brought him home. NOW if that is incorrect info, please let me know, that is why I brought it up.

Oh geez, I almost forgot (see my mind does wander a bit ). He merely had lack of the proper vitamins from the wrong food (and how many of you had mentioned that ? all of you). So we got a vitamin A & D injection, a vitamin B complex injection, a beak trim, nails done, pat on the shell, kisses good bye by bother doctors and a new nick name "The 6 million dollar turtle" .

Should finish up his outside pen this weekend but you all were not only extremely helpful, once again, you were right. So I cleaned all the old bedding out, bought him some more shelters to crawl in, he now has his personal bath/swimming pool and lastly......................................should I get him a partner ? Do they like companionship ? Should I first go to school on the proper care of a "Tort" ????????????? 

And the coffee table pen he has is much bigger than the picture reflects, it's an 60 gallon fish aquarium. I still can't get him to poke his head out or I would send a picture of him. But at least the swelling is down enough so the little brat can at least pull his head in !

Thank you all !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ron


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## ascott (Aug 9, 2014)

Glad to follow that the path is getting better....please do watch the injection site of the vitamin shot....some tortoise have an adverse reaction to the dosage given...skin peeling and such...if all was administered in correct amount all should be fine....if for some reason you see peeling/sloughing of skin at or near the injection site then attention will be needed....I would also offer daily warm water soaks for the next week and would make sure that those warm water soaks are for at least 30 minutes......


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## Ron Cobb (Aug 9, 2014)

Good morning !

Apple Valley, go through there quite often on our way to the races. So..............................bathe in a coantiner out of the pen, do it in his new swimming pool ? If you read this entire thread, I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed so be careful, I will pummel you with questions if you raise your hand in my classroom .

I'm all ears and thank you for the participation. Oh by the way, I have no idea where they hit the Speedster with the injections to be able to keep an eye on it. I'm guessing just keep an eye on the cranky dudes whole body.

Ron


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## Ron Cobb (Aug 9, 2014)

And he is cranky ! Good to see him get back to form !


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## Yourlocalpoet (Aug 9, 2014)

Ron Cobb said:


> Good evening:
> 
> Long day. Yes Speedy is the "guy" I had been calling "Sir" all these years, not a female as one of my new friends had said he was. Secondly, he's just fine !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! By the time I got home, made him a complete new indoor living quarters (see attached picture), made a small something to eat, I laid down and just woke up). Guessing I was tired ?
> 
> ...



No friends! He doesn't need them, your tortoise is a lone wolf! Unless you were going to get several, groups are okay but not a twosome - there's an abundance of threads on why pairs are not a good idea (search bullying).


Glad Speedy is doing good! 




Sent from my iPhone using Tortoise Forum


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## Ron Cobb (Aug 9, 2014)

Good morning from California. Okey dokey, will not pursue a "buddy". I'll check what you have pointed out and obviously learn from that also.

Muchos,

Ron


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## Ron Cobb (Aug 9, 2014)

Speedy died ! That may be the reason I couldn't get him to poke his head out for a picture to send to you all.

Ron


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## Yvonne G (Aug 9, 2014)

WHAT???????? Oh my lord! You take that tortoise right back to the vet who treated him - immediately! It was their treatment that killed the tortoise. He was getting along just fine with his lumpy neck until they gave him injections. They need to know that what they did killed the tortoise.

Oh, Ron...I'm so very sorry this happened. What a heart-breaking thing.

But don't waste any time in getting him back to the vet. The more time you take, the better chance they have to say it was you and not their treatment that killed the tortoise.


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## Ron Cobb (Aug 9, 2014)

I'm numb Yvonne and I will let the vet know but to take him down there, I see no reason unless they want to do an autopsy. I will let them know that he smells of the ugly stench of vitamins and hope they learn from this.


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## Jtort (Aug 9, 2014)

I'm so sorry


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## Shakudo (Aug 9, 2014)

I am very sorry.


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## yillt (Aug 9, 2014)

That's terrible. I'm so sorry.


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## 4jean (Aug 9, 2014)

I am so sorry. You did so much for him.


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## keepergale (Aug 9, 2014)

That's to bad. 
Another example of why I don't trust/like vets. I spent 40 years working with them. I have a million stories. (Retired Zookeeper) They have a even harder time dealing with reptiles than other exotics.


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## Kim444 (Aug 9, 2014)

That's just terrible. I would go back immediately like Yvonne said. Was his head in his shell when you picked him up form the vet


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## Yvonne G (Aug 9, 2014)

It looks like the head is actually stuck inside there. Oh man. I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around this. This is just terrible.


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## Kim444 (Aug 9, 2014)

That's why I asked Yvonne, I have a feeling the vet gave him back a dead tort. He does look stuck, ugh.


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## Ron Cobb (Aug 9, 2014)

Hi:

I just got a voice mail from the vet, it sickens me !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! He was out and about and moving just fine yesterday afternoon, was checking out his new turf. The vet said, I'm so sorry but when they have the lack of Vitamins Speedy had, they can be "Compromised". Bull sh... His swelling was half of what the pictures show when I picked him up, he popped his head in and out just fine or I wouldn't have brought him home. I'm not going to guess since I am having a difficult time trying to keep my sense of humor, and yes people, I am a true lovable guy that would go to the end of the earth for anyone or any being, but I also have a very bad side to me also.

Again, bless, bless you all ! This is yet another learning experience I must keep in mind. Life goes on and may you all have a blessed one !

Ron


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## Yvonne G (Aug 9, 2014)

Well, Ron...you had 15 good years with Speedy. I see another tortoise in your future - down the road a piece. So, don't desert us. We're here for you and we're waiting to see the pictures of your new tortoise when the time comes. After 15 years, its not going to be easy getting used to life without a tortoise. I could never do it. So put all this bad stuff behind you, retain all the good stuff - the happy memories, and the good info you got from your new friends here. We'll be here...waiting to see your new tortoise.

The vet may not have done anything wrong, however, I don't like his attitude, and if it were me, I'd never go back to him.


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## Yourlocalpoet (Aug 9, 2014)

What! I am absolutely gutted for you Ron. I'm so sorry. Poor tortoise. Are you okay? I can't believe it, everything sounded so positive...




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## WillTort2 (Aug 9, 2014)

Could this be another case of vitamin injections causing death? It seems that feeding or soaking the vitamins may be a much safer way to improve a tortoise's health.

It might be worthwhile to take a poll of how many torts have had vitamin injections and if the results have been worthwhile or just too risky to use.

My condolences to Ron.


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## leigti (Aug 9, 2014)

Ron, I am very, very sorry.


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## Ron Cobb (Aug 9, 2014)

Hello friends:

I just buried the Speedster, didn't have the guts to give up til now. I could go on and on but I just don't have it in me. Thank you all for giving me insight on a Tort as being a pet, kicking me a bit when I needed it, etc, etc. I will move forward and learn from this but I will not bring another baby into my life for reasons learned. I'm going to "check out" of this forum and as mentioned "move forward". May you all take care of those that mean the most and have the best with those also.

Again,

Thank you and adios


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## christinaland128 (Aug 9, 2014)

Aw.


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