# Need help with hibernating desert torts in Arizona



## Leddagger16 (Nov 10, 2015)

I have two desert tortoises who are around 1 and a half years old who are trying to hibernate. Temperatures are high 40's at night and 60's to 70's during the day. If I let them, they will stay in their enclosure all day. I moved them to the middle of my yard so the sun shines in it in the morning which helps a little but I usually have to drag them out to get them to eat. Should I bring them up onto my patio and let them hibernate or should I buy something to bring them inside for the winter?


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## Leddagger16 (Nov 11, 2015)

So I guess I originally posted this to the wrong section by accident and nobody responded.

I have two desert torts who I believe are around a year and a half old. It has been getting cool here (low 40's at night and 60-70's during the day. My torts seem to be wanting to hibernate. They don't want to eat very much and I can only get them to eat grass and greens. I usually feed them a mix of zoo med pellets and bermuda. They weren't coming out of their house so I moved their enclosure in the sun which wakes them up every day but they only go out for a little while. Anyway, should I move their enclosure onto my patio so they can fully hibernate or should I buy stuff to bring them in the house for the winter?


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## Yvonne G (Nov 12, 2015)

Sorry about no responses. I don't know how I missed this thread.

I also keep desert tortoises, however, I don't allow my young ones to hibernate until they're about 3 years old. So my vote is for you to set them up indoors until the weather is good enough to put them back outside. You may have to set them in water daily then keep placing them in front of the food until you've got them interested in staying away again.

If you do allow them to hibernate, they need to be protected from freezing. They need to be below 50F but above 40F. And they should not be allowed to get wet during this time.


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## Leddagger16 (Nov 12, 2015)

Thank you. What substrate do you recommend using inside?


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## Ciri (Nov 14, 2015)

I assume you are trying to keep them awake indoors for the winter. If that is the case, what I do is use our regular Arizona soil from the backyard. My yard has not been sprayed with herbicides or pesticides for more than 12 years so I'm confident that the soil is safe. It's also nice that it's their natural soil. I usually take it from a spot in the yard where the sun has baked the soil so that it's less likely to contain things that will get them sick. I do this as the desert tortoise species is more vulnerable to getting respiratory infections than some other species (according to my reptile veterinarian). It's good to create a warm area (85 to 90°), and a slightly cooler area (about 80°), to allow them to regulate their internal temperature. I use a UVA/UVB light for the warm end, and if needed, a ceramic heat emitter. I keep water available all day long in a water dish. I sanitize the dish in between uses – I use a dishwasher, and use the heated drying cycle to sanitize. This helps avoid illnesses. You can also use chlorine bleach to sanitize, but the dish needs to be rinsed really well afterwards.

As for food, I steer clear of pellets. I use as much as I can of their native foods: fresh clippings of weeds and grasses such as globemallow, spurge, and spiderling. I have Bermuda grass which is very good nutritionally for them. You might like to look at this brochure created specifically to identify nutritionally beneficial weeds and grasses for desert tortoises:
http://www.azgfd.gov/w_c/tortoise/documents/NativePlantsforDesertTortoises_2008.pdf

a good source of seeds (they even have a desert tortoise wildflower mix):
http://shop.nativeseeds.org/pages/seeds

I have been able to keep globemallow going through the winter – I just give it occasional water during our dry spells. It seems that when it's in partial shade, and gets a little extra water, the leaves are more tender – which I think is probably more appealing especially to younger desert tortoises.

I hope I'm not overwhelming you with information. If I can be of any other help, feel free to ask. Hope all is going well with the little tortoises.


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## Leddagger16 (Nov 14, 2015)

Thank you Ciri. I have got some seeds from them but I haven't planted them yet. Also, I used coconut fiber with some of the regular dirt but it is messy so I am probably going to switch to mostly dirt like you said.


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## Leddagger16 (Nov 14, 2015)

One other question. I got them a heat lamp and basking light but I just realized that the basking light only gives out uva. The sun shines pretty bright in my window. Would it be ok to just have the uvb come from my window and uva from the lamp or should I go buy another light?


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## SarahChelonoidis (Nov 14, 2015)

Leddagger16 said:


> One other question. I got them a heat lamp and basking light but I just realized that the basking light only gives out uva. The sun shines pretty bright in my window. Would it be ok to just have the uvb come from my window and uva from the lamp or should I go buy another light?



UVb cannot pass through window glass, so no, that won't be sufficient. You will need a bulb that puts out UVb.


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## Leddagger16 (Nov 19, 2015)

I recently moved my desert tortoises indoors because they were trying to hibernate but now they are trying to hibernate in their indoor enclosure. I'm not really sure what to do anymore. Since this picture was taken I took out one of the logs because no matter what they go in the same one. They will stay in there all day if I let them. Should I put another light on the other side? Also, how can I improve the enclosure and keep them active? The temperatures in the enclosure are around 65 - 70F at night and about 80F during the day. The humidity level ranges from 30 to 50% with it averaging 35%

Also, it isn't as dark as the picture makes it look but one side is much brighter than the other


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## Tom (Nov 19, 2015)

There are four temperatures to know and maintain:
Warm side, 80-85.
Cool side 75-80.
Basking area, around 100 directly under your bulb.
Overnight low. Normally 65-70 is fine for DTs, but if you are trying to prevent hibernation I'd keep it 75-80 with the use of a ceramic heating element and a thermostat.

I fear there is a coil type UV bulb in that double hood apparatus. If that is the case, it might be burning their eyes and making them want to hide more. I'd turn it off ASAP and return it.

Your lights should be on a timer for 13-14 hours a day.
Your temps need to be kept a little warmer than usual.
You should be soaking daily in warm water, and continually getting them up out of their hides. Yvonne recommended pulling them out of their hiding spot and placing them in front of the food every time you walk by the enclosure.
You should make it brighter in there by adding a strip light or another flood lamp for basking.

Take them to their outside enclosure for sunning on warmer winter days like what we'll have for the next couple days. Its around 80 here right now and even warmer tomorrow.

Preventing hibernation can be difficult. Even with all of the above, some of them persist for days or weeks. Give it all a try and then come back with updates and more questions for us.


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## Lyn W (Nov 21, 2015)

Do you have a pair in there? Keep an eye out for bullying by the dominant one - maybe that's why they end up in same hide. They could possibly use more room to get away from each other but they may be happier in separate enclosures. A couple of plants maybe? To hide under and feel secure as well as make it a bit or interesting.


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## orv (Nov 23, 2015)

I'm just curious and perhaps maybe ignorant. Why do you want to discourage their inborn instincts to "hibernate "? Our'service have been hibernating successfully in our yard since the 1950's.


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## ascott (Nov 23, 2015)

Leddagger16 said:


> I recently moved my desert tortoises indoors because they were trying to hibernate but now they are trying to hibernate in their indoor enclosure. I'm not really sure what to do anymore. Since this picture was taken I took out one of the logs because no matter what they go in the same one. They will stay in there all day if I let them. Should I put another light on the other side? Also, how can I improve the enclosure and keep them active? The temperatures in the enclosure are around 65 - 70F at night and about 80F during the day. The humidity level ranges from 30 to 50% with it averaging 35%
> 
> Also, it isn't as dark as the picture makes it look but one side is much brighter than the other



I would separate them into their own enclosures to begin with...they are not sharing the log, one is dominating the other and the less dominant will grow weak...just my opinion.

Also, if you have a tortoise, or two, that insist on bromating...why not let them enjoy a short rest, sometimes a short brumation will help to satisfy that deep seeded drive...perhaps 2 or 3 weeks and then slowly bring them out of the short rest....imitate a wake up...


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## Leddagger16 (Dec 3, 2015)

ascott said:


> I would separate them into their own enclosures to begin with...they are not sharing the log, one is dominating the other and the less dominant will grow weak...just my opinion.
> 
> Also, if you have a tortoise, or two, that insist on bromating...why not let them enjoy a short rest, sometimes a short brumation will help to satisfy that deep seeded drive...perhaps 2 or 3 weeks and then slowly bring them out of the short rest....imitate a wake up...


I actually decided to let them hibernate after all. I let them fast for a week while soaking them every day. They have been hibernating for about a week now and I check on them every few days. I built them an insulated den in their original enclosure and on nights when the temp drops below 35F I leave a heat lamp on near the den. My main question is, should I be soaking them every week to keep them hydrated? The humidity level ranges from 30% to 50%


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## ascott (Dec 5, 2015)

Leddagger16 said:


> I actually decided to let them hibernate after all. I let them fast for a week while soaking them every day. They have been hibernating for about a week now and I check on them every few days. I built them an insulated den in their original enclosure and on nights when the temp drops below 35F I leave a heat lamp on near the den. My main question is, should I be soaking them every week to keep them hydrated? The humidity level ranges from 30% to 50%




Depends on how long you are allowing the youngsters to bromate....I certainly would not allow a full brumation cycle --that can goe 4+ months and in my opinion, for the size/age of them I would not promote that....I would say that if you are going to do a short brumation of a month, then no--however, if you are going to go longer than a month then yes, I would offer a soak every couple of weeks....however, you will need to assure that they are dry completely before they are placed back into their hibernacle...and the soak should be barely tepid water, not the normal warm water soak....if for some reason they awake and will not return to rest...then I would bring them out of the brumation....you will really need to get in tune with the little ones during this process....pay attention to any swollen or sunken eye/eye areas, wetness coming from nose or mouth...skin seeming saggy vs remaining plump....


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## Yvonne G (May 18, 2016)

Coming a bit late to this party, but looking at the picture I see that the light sits on the screen. Small screen like that filters out quite a bit of the UVB. If this is still the set-up you're using, you may see a bit more activity from them if you cut a hole in the screen for the UV light.


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## Leddagger16 (May 18, 2016)

Yvonne G said:


> Coming a bit late to this party, but looking at the picture I see that the light sits on the screen. Small screen like that filters out quite a bit of the UVB. If this is still the set-up you're using, you may see a bit more activity from them if you cut a hole in the screen for the UV light.


Haha this set-up is long over. Thank you for the advice though.


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