# Very Young California Desert Tortoise



## tricatschool (Jan 28, 2010)

These California Desert Tortoises are three weeks old. The coin in the picture is a quarter.


----------



## Maggie Cummings (Jan 28, 2010)

If these are current pictures you need to get those babies off the pellets. That is an old fashioned way to raise them that can cause damage to their legs... "splay" legs, and cause pyramiding and other things. I have raised many many desert babies on moist substrate and they grow better are more active and more healthy all around.


----------



## tricatschool (Jan 28, 2010)

maggie3fan said:


> If these are current pictures you need to get those babies off the pellets. That is an old fashioned way to raise them that can cause damage to their legs... "splay" legs, and cause pyramiding and other things. I have raised many many desert babies on moist substrate and they grow better are more active and more healthy all around.


Thanks!

I posted my babies so that a comparison could be made between the size of my little ones, and the 'soft-ball sized babies' mentioned in an earlier post that were up for adoption.

I've just moved them to a moist substrate. It's amazing how much bad information is out on the Web. Fortunately they spent most of their 'early days' out on the grass, grazing, but they have a whole new enclosure/substrate/diet/etc. I love this forum!

Thanks for the comment. Every day my tortoise care is getting better! 

Tric


----------



## Maggie Cummings (Jan 28, 2010)

tricatschool said:


> maggie3fan said:
> 
> 
> > If these are current pictures you need to get those babies off the pellets. That is an old fashioned way to raise them that can cause damage to their legs... "splay" legs, and cause pyramiding and other things. I have raised many many desert babies on moist substrate and they grow better are more active and more healthy all around.
> ...



I didn't mean to sound like I was criticizing you. It is a relatively new discovery that says rabbit pellets are a bad substrate. I raised many a desert baby on the pellet substrate, so I pay attention to the new ways of keeping them. I was just trying to help, so please keep posting and offering advice, and just understand I was not trying to cause you any disrespect...



tricatschool said:


> maggie3fan said:
> 
> 
> > If these are current pictures you need to get those babies off the pellets. That is an old fashioned way to raise them that can cause damage to their legs... "splay" legs, and cause pyramiding and other things. I have raised many many desert babies on moist substrate and they grow better are more active and more healthy all around.
> ...



I didn't mean to sound like I was criticizing you. It is a relatively new discovery that says rabbit pellets are a bad substrate. I raised many a desert baby when I first started keeping them on the pellet substrate, so I pay attention now to the new ways of keeping them. I was just trying to help, so please keep posting and offering advice, and just understand I was not trying to cause you any disrespect...


----------



## tricatschool (Jan 28, 2010)

maggie3fan said:


> tricatschool said:
> 
> 
> > maggie3fan said:
> ...




Oh, no, I didn't take it that way at all!
We've had my adult tortoises for about 30 years or so; both were highway accident victims rescued by my grandparents. They have the run of the yard and sort of take care of themselves. We supplement with kitchen greens as summer gets drier, and with this last really bad storm we pulled them out of their burrows and stuck them in the garage in boxes to avoid them flooding and drowning. (And I think they would have. It was pretty wet!)

So while our adults have been part of the family for four generations now, the babies were a COMPLETE surprise. They've mated for years (and you can't miss that!), but we've never had babies. So when they popped up near the food dish, we sort of scurried to put things together. I really researched and followed what I found on 'official sites', but I never thought to look for a forum where people are actually caring for and monitoring the same animals.

Since I've dipped into the forum I've: changed the light, changed the heat source, changed the substrate, added humidity, began supplementing their diet with liquid calcium, changed their diet, added in Mazuri, and changed their hide box. I already see that they're more active, firmer, and have a better appetite. (And it's so much fun to watch them burrow just under the surface of the substrate!)

So I really do appreciate everything I'm hearing. Commitment to a tortoise is multigenerational and real, so I need to do what I can to give my babies a good start. We intend to keep one (My parents and my 16-year-old were campaigning to keep them all!) and to adopt out the others, I thought when they were about a year old. I'm a teacher, and generally know the families in my program for years, and I've had 10 or so alumni families ask about adopting when the babies are available. So I'll get to be picky. When do you think is a good age to adopt them out? I'm not letting them hibernate this year (They hatched in September.) and they'll spend most of their days outside in a pen, once the Spring is warmer, and they'll stay inside at night. I'm worried about them being vulnerable to ravens and cats during the days, and cats, raccoons, and opossums at night.

Sorry to repeat the question, but I buried it up there:
What do you think is the best age to adopt out baby desert tortoises?

Thanks, again!
Tric


----------



## DoctorCosmonaut (Jan 28, 2010)

Is it common for this species to have clutches so far apart?


----------



## Maggie Cummings (Jan 28, 2010)

I think when to adopt them out has a lot to do with how well they are eating, are they adjusted to grazing and the legalities of the whole situation. Who are you going to adopt to? Are they experienced tort keepers? Gopherus agassizii are extremely fragile as hatchlings and when I was helping at Yvonne's rescue she didn't let them go until they were about a year old.


----------



## tricatschool (Jan 28, 2010)

maggie3fan said:


> I think when to adopt them out has a lot to do with how well they are eating, are they adjusted to grazing and the legalities of the whole situation. Who are you going to adopt to? Are they experienced tort keepers? Gopherus agassizii are extremely fragile as hatchlings and when I was helping at Yvonne's rescue she didn't let them go until they were about a year old.



A year is what I thought, too.

What do you mean, exactly, by 'extremely fragile'? I obviously haven't know just what to look for (or just what to do!) for these guys in their first four months. Thanks to the forum I think I've got the enclosure together properly, and I've ordered seed for the plants that they should be eating. I plan to plant some out for my adults and then also some in containers so I can 'lift' the plants/roots/soil into the enclosure. That way they have natural, growing, food before Spring is really here, for evening grazing, and for days when I can't get them outside to graze. And I think I'll keep supplementing with the Mazuri, and of course, the calcium.

So if that works, and my heat/UVB/substrate/humidity are all in order, what else do I need to look for? I lost one hatchling before we discovered the others; he had an open plastron, and had been eaten out by ants. I figure he must have had an extended yolk. I'm really trying not to lose any more!

Thanks, again, for your comments. I really do appreciate them.
Tric



DoctorCosmonaut said:


> Is it common for this species to have clutches so far apart?



This was our first clutch, and the nest was buried, and we never found the nest remains.

I've read that the female can lay three clutches in a season. We kept looking for more babies, but never saw any after the original clutch, which presented over a two-day period.


----------



## Nay (Jan 29, 2010)

Tric, I just noticed your post that the adults have been in your family for four generations. So you grew up with them? Did your parents have pets? Did you enjoys the torts as a kid? I am just asking to get a feel if my 14 yr may grow to love my torts as I do. He seems to like them, but unless asked will do nothing for their care.. (Actually I could have ended that sentence 3 words shorter.) He always encourages me to get more when we see an add, (which I usually resist)
Good Luck with your new babies,what a cool surprise that must've been. Happy you ended up here,for the advice the experienced keepers can offer.
Na


----------



## Weloveourtortoise (Jan 29, 2010)

They are adorable!!!!


----------



## Sudhira (Jan 29, 2010)

What a great story! The babies are darling, best of luck to you and them!


----------



## Yvonne G (Jan 29, 2010)

DoctorCosmonaut said:


> Is it common for this species to have clutches so far apart?



Desert tortoises normally lay one clutch per year around May or June. Sometimes a female will lay two clutches, but the norm is one. A female who is bred will lay every year. 

More than likely, the conditions for the OP's tortoises weren't right for the female to lay eggs. Another factor might be red ants, who will eat the eggs while they are in the ground... Dirt too hard to dig a hole... male not really breeding, or making actual contact. Too many factors to know what happened in all those years.

The Department of Fish and Game's regulations state that it is unlawful to knowingly allow desert tortoises to breed in captivity. If a female DOES lay eggs, then you are not allowed to artificially incubate them. Leaving them in the ground for nature to take its course is ok. And, of course, it is illegal to sell or buy desert tortoises.


----------



## tricatschool (Jan 29, 2010)

Nay said:


> Tric, I just noticed your post that the adults have been in your family for four generations. So you grew up with them? Did your parents have pets? Did you enjoys the torts as a kid? I am just asking to get a feel if my 14 yr may grow to love my torts as I do. He seems to like them, but unless asked will do nothing for their care.. (Actually I could have ended that sentence 3 words shorter.) He always encourages me to get more when we see an add, (which I usually resist)
> Good Luck with your new babies,what a cool surprise that must've been. Happy you ended up here,for the advice the experienced keepers can offer.
> Na



I did grow up with the tortoises, but the first came to our family when I was about 12. I live in an extended family situation, where there have always been at least three generations around, so care and feeding has slowly transferred from one generation to the next. My son has always had the torts around, and knows that they 'go with the big house'. So he knows that he, and someday his children, will have responsibility for them.

Enjoy your torts!
Tric


----------

