# What's the best spot for tortoise keeping in America?



## PeanutbuttER (Dec 14, 2010)

Well, it's a very very broad question that will differ by species but...

Just for fun. In your opinion, what is the most ideal spot in America for tortoise-keeping? and Why?


Conversely, what's the worst?


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## DeanS (Dec 14, 2010)

Ha! After everything I'm hearing (and to a lesser extent, seeing), it sounds like Phoenix, Arizona is the mecca for tort-keeping in the US!

I would imagine Montana, the Dakotas or the New England area would rank among the worst!


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## SILVERSTAR (Dec 14, 2010)

i would think anywhere wit warm wheather most the year.


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## onarock (Dec 14, 2010)

Hawaii, honestly, no where else even comes close.


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## Az tortoise compound (Dec 14, 2010)

Best places:
Sullies and DT's= PHX,AZ
Most everything else= Hawaii

Worst place:
South dakota, the winds in/ around the Badlands are ridiculous and totally counteract any heat the sun provides.

Just my assumptions really.


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## ALDABRAMAN (Dec 15, 2010)

Depending on species, Ours do outstanding in Florida.


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## Tim/Robin (Dec 15, 2010)

In my customized tort room!!


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## Angi (Dec 15, 2010)

I think Ramona Ca. might be better than Phoenix AZ. for DTs and Sullys. It is not as dry. doesn't get as cold or as hot. Doesn't Poenix get really cold in the winter? I could be wrong there.


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## Yvonne G (Dec 15, 2010)

Of course, it depends upon what kind of tortoise, but my first choice would be southern California.


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## GBtortoises (Dec 15, 2010)

I would imagine Montana, the Dakotas or the New England area would rank among the worst! 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
I live next door to New England, in New York State. It's far from the worst! It depends upon what species of tortoise you're talking about. Mediterraneans and Russians do very well here and in fact can be kept outdoors year round if you provide the correct hibernation requirements for them outside. All of my Russians and the majority of my Eastern Hermann's have been hibernating here outdoors for several years. Over the years I have successfully kept and in some cases successfully bred; Redfoots, Elongateds, Burmese Browns, Parrot Beaks, Bowsprits and more. Granted, some species time outdoors is more limited here than in some other climates but they do very well here while outdoors too.

I know from talking with other breeders in the San Diego area that they're tortoises absolutely thrive there.


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## Greg Knoell (Dec 15, 2010)

Southern California is really the most ideal IMO because the extremes are moderate yet adequate for overwhelmingly most species (including humans!), and Southern Florida is probably right there as well. I think Central Arizona (Phoenix Metro, Mesa, Tucson) would be the next best. But a lot depends on species. 

I think Arizona is great because here there's a cooler winter which can facilitate winter brumation/seasonal cycles for animals from cooler climates. But the AZ climate also provides a large daily variability (cool nights & morning with warm winter afternoons). From what I've seen many tropical species can functionally thermoregulate throughout the winter using micro climates (natural and man made) and taking advantage of basking throughout the warm winter afternoons. With that said, the only small negative for Arizona tortoise keepers is the same variability often makes it necessary to provide some human manufactured micro climates. These often include sprinkler systems to provide humidity/hydration, heated dens/hides for winter, and covered protection from extreme summer heat. I doubt that much if any of these additional micro climates would be needed in SoCal except maybe sprinklers to provide water.


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## onarock (Dec 15, 2010)

I guess this thread must pertain only to the lower 48? In that case, I would say So.Cal.


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## chadk (Dec 15, 2010)

NOT arizona or southern cali. Too dry. Especially for hatchlings. And more indoor areas will be running A/C, so even more dry. I would coose south east texas to florida. Something with warm and humid weather year round. The other nice thing with that type of climate is that that grass and weeds will grow MUCH better than in a dessert type climate. And for a tort yard, having your grass and weeds grow fast is a huge bonus.


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## Neal (Dec 15, 2010)

Florida = #1
Arizona = #2

Yeah it gets dry here, but for the most part I for one would still keep my hatchlings indoors. With my current set up I have no problem controlling temperatures and humidity. Redfoot's are a little tricky but it can be done.


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## Maggie Cummings (Dec 15, 2010)

You can't grow grass in Arizona so I say SoCal...


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## Neal (Dec 15, 2010)

maggie3fan said:


> You can't grow grass in Arizona so I say SoCal...



? I bet we could grow Bermuda as easily as anywhere else. You don't really have to seed it very much here, just water the desert and out grows some Bermuda.


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## DeanS (Dec 15, 2010)

I usually don't speak for others, but if it weren't for strong objections from our wives...I'm pretty sure Tom and I would be uprooting our families for that magical Phoenix climate...and I hate the Suns!


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## Neal (Dec 15, 2010)

DeanS said:


> ...and I hate the Suns!



Maggie's comment made me upset and now your comment just pushed me over the edge! You'd better stay out of AZ or I'm going to slash your tires!


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## DeanS (Dec 15, 2010)

Neal Butler said:


> DeanS said:
> 
> 
> > ...and I hate the Suns!
> ...



KOBE! KOBE! KOBE!





:


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## Az tortoise compound (Dec 15, 2010)

Dean,
I am about to take back all the nice things I have said about you in the past I don't watch the NBA since PHX got robbed in San Antonio a few years ago. I do know I hate Kobe though.......


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## Neal (Dec 15, 2010)

Psh...Kobe...It's like cheating, not fun to watch that guy win all the time.


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## rad8ted92083 (Dec 15, 2010)

So Cal all the way


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## DeanS (Dec 15, 2010)

Az tortoise compound said:


> Dean,
> I am about to take back all the nice things I have said about you in the past I don't watch the NBA since PHX got robbed in San Antonio a few years ago. I do know I hate Kobe though.......



So I won't be getting that third note of praise?  

I was just having some fun with Neal...wouldn't wanna upset you though Mick! I'm just a HUGE Lakers fan...and since MJ retired (Michael not Magic)...Kobe is simply the BEST in the game...barring what may (or probably may not have happened in Denver a few years back)!


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## Balboa (Dec 15, 2010)

The best, yah sounds like hawaii, coastal so cal (san diego?), florida, louisiana, any place warm and humid.

IT gets too darn cold in the midwest, but I think Seattle still has to be the worst. The ground NEVER dries out here, all winter long. Cold is one thing, wet and cold= dead torts. 

I've been to Arizona. Northern part of the state wasn't bad, but dang the southern. BLAH. At least in most of the midwest there's plants growing on the big open flat nothingness. (OK I'm a mountain man, grew up surrounded by green trees and mountains, forests and rolling hills for as far as the eye can see. I think I may get agoraphobia in open, nothingness)

To really sink the deal for Seattle as worst.... we don't even have an NBA team anymore.


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## Tom (Dec 15, 2010)

onarock said:


> I guess this thread must pertain only to the lower 48? In that case, I would say So.Cal.



No were just ignoring you, Mister "I live in paradise and its always perfect here."

Really, we are all just insanely jealous. Well most of us.

NOT counting Islands and territories outside the continental US, I'd say its a three way tie between the Phoenix area, the south (FL, MS, LA), and Inland Southern, CA. Southern TX sounds like it might be good too.

I would think the worst would be any of the states along the Northern border. I have to agree that Seattle with all the cold and wet all the time sounds pretty bad too.


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## onarock (Dec 15, 2010)

Dean, your words about my beloved Lakers brought tears to my eyes. Your right on Point and dont be afraid to put it out there, MJ thats Magic Johnson is the greatest of all time, a 6'10" point guard that could play any position at the highest level. There never has been nor will there ever be another one like him. People keep comparing all the new guys to Jordan, why?, because they can! As far as the best places to keep tortoises in the lower 48, like I said I think So Cal. I think it should be pointed out that although climates vary coast to coast and that has a lot to do with it, So Cal along with Phoenix has more available reptile specific medical technology than other parts of the country including my part.


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## PeanutbuttER (Dec 15, 2010)

onarock said:


> I guess this thread must pertain only to the lower 48? In that case, I would say So.Cal.



See, I actually don't think of Hawaii as being that great. Don't get me wrong, hawaii is a fantastic place, but as far as tortoise keeping there are definite disadvantages to living on an island. 1) I've read people on this forum talking about how they can't ship tortoises to hawaii very easily, so it seems like you're limited by how available tortoises are to you. 2) I also know that things in general are more expensive there because of transportation which would add extra cost to tortoise supplies. 3) If you breed, it would be more difficult to ship from hawaii to the continental US than it would be to ship within the 48 (generally, obviously if you're shipping to CA from HI that might be cheaper than from ME). However, the climate is unbeatable and there are also wild growing foods that beat out the weeds in my yard anyday. 

I like the idea of somewhere in the texas to florida coastal stretch personally. Consistently warm temps, high humidity, etc. If you could find an area with cheap land and low cost of living you'd be able to live comfortably and so would the torts. 

Worst place IMO, maine. Cold, damp, muddy, buggy, maine. (my wife happens to be a mainer and these are her complaints, not mine. Personally I think Maine is beautiful).


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## onarock (Dec 15, 2010)

PeanutbuttER said:


> onarock said:
> 
> 
> > I guess this thread must pertain only to the lower 48? In that case, I would say So.Cal.
> ...



Those are all good points Peanutbutter. I would say as far as tortoise supplies, there really isnt much and if you need them they probably are expensive. Shipping is also an issue, but once youve done it, its not bad. Also, the reason shipping is tough to Hawaii is beause of the permitting and inspections that take place and its also the proof of why Hawaii is so great for not only tortoises but most animals on earth. We have stringint import laws because everything thrives here. Its also the reason why we are limited in our turtle choice. If we are judging all the human factors into the equasion (cost, vets, and supplies) then Hawaii would be tied with So Cal and Az ( in my opinion ). If not, then Hawaii wins hands down. If humans suddenly left this planet our tortoises over here could easily survive, reproduce and thrive, and other than CDTs I dont think you could say that for the rest of the U.S. Human factor, its a toss. Ease of husbandry and natural survivability - Hawaii. I dont bring them in and I dont buy food for them year round. Our females have longer egg laying seasons compared to the mainland. I could go on and on and I think I have. Imua Hawaii


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## Angi (Dec 15, 2010)

I don't think I have been to Phoenix. Is is different than the rest of AZ? Tucson and Yuma didn't impress me. On the subject of B-Ball I didn't watch it when Magic was playing, but I think Michael Jordan was an amazing player. A couple of weeks ago my son played aginst a kid that was 6'9" and ripped. Very good basketball player. He has already signed you a D 1 school. I could not believe he was in H/S.


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## Tom (Dec 15, 2010)

There are just too many smooth torts coming out of the Phoenix are for it to be coincidence. I'm guessing its the weather. A lot of people there keep sulcatas in yards with no heat year round. They just dog a burrow to escape the temperature extremes.


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## Edna (Dec 15, 2010)

DeanS said:


> Ha! After everything I'm hearing (and to a lesser extent, seeing), it sounds like Phoenix, Arizona is the mecca for tort-keeping in the US!
> 
> I would imagine Montana, the Dakotas or the New England area would rank among the worst!



Let's go ahead and add WY to the list of worst places. For so many reasons.




Balboa said:


> To really sink the deal for Seattle as worst.... we don't even have an NBA team anymore.



Torty, Maggie, and Molly want to go on the record: Tortoises don't give a r*t's *ss about basketball. Therefore, the lack of an NBA team, or even a hot college rivalry, isn't a deal breaker. It's all about the climate and how good the grocery stores are, and how far the peeps have to drive to get to a most excellent vet.


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## Angi (Dec 15, 2010)

So if Phoenix is a great place for nice smooth tortoises does that contradict the humidity theory?


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## Az tortoise compound (Dec 15, 2010)

Angi said:


> So if Phoenix is a great place for nice smooth tortoises does that contradict the humidity theory?



Uh Oh.......
It almost feels like the dead calm before the storm hits......


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## TLL (Dec 15, 2010)

emysemys said:


> Of course, it depends upon what kind of tortoise, but my first choice would be southern California.



woot woot for CA !! and hawaii, as well as arizona and nevada.. but the humidity would be more of a hassle. florida sounds cool too..


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## Tom (Dec 15, 2010)

Angi said:


> So if Phoenix is a great place for nice smooth tortoises does that contradict the humidity theory?



Not at all. The humidity thing is just for babies. AZ is a nice place for adults and juveniles of desert species to live outside. Even the best ones from AZ often start out pyramided. The magical AZ air and climate just seems to smooth them out.

It would be tough to keep forest species outside there. That's why most of the big names in AZ don't do redfoots. This is why I rank FL and the deep south right up there. If the question were narrowed down to what is the best place for sulcatas and babcock leopards, AZ wins. I think inland Southern CA is still a close second.


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## Neal (Dec 16, 2010)

I think it's like I said, no matter where you are you would likely raise your hatchlings for the most part indoors where you can easily control the humidity levels. So humid climates would really only be favored by redfoots or others with high humidity requirements.


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## Angi (Dec 16, 2010)

Thanks for explaining Tom.


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## DeanS (Dec 16, 2010)

Even though I'm on his hit list ...I gotta agree with Neal on this! And, of course the guru (I mean Tom) has the most valid point...you can live in Iceland and keep the babies hot and humid indoors...but adults? outdoors? Still gotta think it's Phoenix all the way!


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## XxDarkEuphoriaxX (Dec 17, 2010)

what about the appalachian mountains for forest type torts, redfoots?


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## Kristina (Dec 17, 2010)

Maui. IF you can afford to get enough real estate.


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## moswen (Dec 17, 2010)

in my heart.


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## tortoises101 (Dec 23, 2010)

I say Florida and Arizona are the best places. The worst place is Canada, no offence to my country. In Canada it's just too cold for torts, a reason why I feel like moving to USA.


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