# Will a Powersun MVB be good enough



## Cory (Sep 29, 2011)

Well, I think I have the enclosure about set up I think, I have a deep dome Light, and a Powersun MVB 100w. Cypress mulch for substrate, terracotta pot plant bottoms for feeding and one turned upside down under the light for basking, and I built a "burrow" out of light defuser (I have reef tanks so I have a ton of this stuff) and its covered in mulch and have my plants above the burrow. The enclosure is a 55 gallon aquarium and when i get my tort it will be housed here until we get our house. Anyways I'm getting off subject, as far as lighting goes will a 100w powersun MVB be sufficient enough to provide humidity in his/her burrow or should I get a heating pad and put it underneath the burrow?


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## Tom (Sep 29, 2011)

Cory, only your thermometer can answer that question. Every house and enclosure is different. Most people need a colored bulb or CHE for night heat.


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## GBtortoises (Sep 29, 2011)

What species of tortoise? How big will the tortoise be when you get it? What is the average day and night temperatures in the room that the tortoise enclosure will be in?


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## Cory (Sep 29, 2011)

Sulcata, a baby, I haven't been running the MVB but the lowest temp at night is right at 73 F. Sorry for the Noob questions I am completely new to torts and really just don't want to mess up.


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## jbean7916 (Sep 29, 2011)

I use a UTH on the SIDE of the cool end for my sully since my room gets a little cooler than I 'd like at night


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## SulcataSquirt (Sep 29, 2011)

For a baby sulcata I like too see temps closer to 80 until they are a little more established. 8 hours of cold air and humidity can get them sick in a heartbeat. a CHE is a very good investment. I recommend a pearlco or zoomed brand.


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## Tom (Sep 29, 2011)

I agree with Crystal. 73 would be fine if things are all dry, but all dry is no bueno for babies.


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## Tony the tank (Sep 29, 2011)

Well I have done quite a bit of research lately.. And was trying to decide which UVB light to use in my enclosure... My first choice was Mega ray my second choice was T-Rex...

Mega ray and T Rex seem to produce the highest amount of usable UVB and UVA...

Mega rays 100watt UVB bulbs give useful UVB at 18"..

I ordered 4 of the 250 watt zoo bulbs...The minimum distance is 40" the Max distance to still have useful UVB is 8ft..No other bulb can do that..

I contacted Zoomed about there power sun UVB they told me Max is 14"..preferred 10"-12"..


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## Cory (Sep 29, 2011)

Alright thanks for the info, so if I get a CHE do i just run it during the night to maintain temp?


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## 81SHOVELHEAD (Sep 29, 2011)

Hello Cory 
The 100 wt powersun will be fine in a 55 gallon enclosure .
I had my 2 redfoots in a 40 gallon breeder tank with screen top & had issues keeping the humidity up .
You may have to cover half the top with aluminum foil or plexi glass to maintain the require humidity levels ,
A 55 is a pretty large tank so i agree with previous post you will probably need a heat emmitter to maintain ambiant temp of 80f or so
in a tank this large.
Just make sure you use a ceramic socket tor the heat emmitter.
You could try www.petmountain.com for supplies .
They have really good prices &shipping is free in most cases .
Good luck 
Mike D.


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## lynnedit (Sep 29, 2011)

See the above, and you will need the CHE at least at night to keep temps about 80. You MAY need it in the day, but the powersun MVB may be enough. 
Do you have a good thermometer to check temps? Accuracy is extremely important so you know you have it right.
The round ones from pets stores are fairly useless, but a PE 1 Infared temp gun (point and take temp) or a digital thermometer with a wire probe (put tip of wire where you want to check the temp) are both worthwhile. The temp gun should be around $25 on line, we can provide links if you need them.


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## Redstrike (Sep 29, 2011)

Cory said:


> Alright thanks for the info, so if I get a CHE do i just run it during the night to maintain temp?



I have my CHE hooked up to a Zoo Med thermostat (~$26 and worth every penny!) there are some very nice thermostats that allow you to set the temp (http://www.bigappleherp.com/BAH-1000-Thermostat) but will run you at least double the price of the Zoo Med 500R. I set the thermostat on "low" and keeps it between 75-78 on the cool end of my Redfoot enclosure. If you just run a 100-W CHE constantly, I suspect things would get quite steamy in your 55 gallon tank...could be wrong though!

This was the best site I found for making a CHE housing unit if you don't want to put it on a clamp fixture on top of the tank:
http://www.redfoots.com/emitter/color.htm


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## lynnedit (Sep 29, 2011)

Redstrike said:


> Cory said:
> 
> 
> > Alright thanks for the info, so if I get a CHE do i just run it during the night to maintain temp?
> ...



The thermostat mentioned above is great advice, that way your CHE will only come on if it drops below 80 in the sleeping side, day or night. 
The Powersun MVB, on the basking side, _cannot_ be on a thermostat (causing it to go on and off repeatedly), because it has a ballast, so it will stay on continuously for 12-14 hours per day. It really helps to have the MVB on a timer, however. Mine comes on about 6a and off about 7p. That can vary based on your torts patterns/preferences.


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## Tony the tank (Sep 29, 2011)

I would check the distance...to confirm the effectiveness of the UVB bulb..A 55 gallon tank has some pretty tall sides....If you go past there recommended distance..Which is 12-14" you would be wasting your money purchasing a UVB bulb..

Give zoomed a call..They were very helpful..


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## chase thorn (Sep 29, 2011)

i love the mvb powersun, i only use the powersun!


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## Cory (Sep 30, 2011)

I have a deep dome fixture on a stand so i can move it up and down, so that's not an issue. I put on one of the aquarium tops (the glass covers) and the humidity is at 65 with only the plant lights going so thats and improvement, And as far as the CHE I'm not to sure I have enough room for another fixture in the tank unless I removed the top and then it will be an issue with humidity, so my question now is should or could i go with an under tank heater for the cool side and just put it on a thermostat or is that a bad idea. Thanks in advance all your advice is great and much appreciated.


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## lynnedit (Sep 30, 2011)

Start with the UVB as your light source. Heat mats have sort of a bad name because they have been a problem in the past, but the newer versions are a better product.
And I think some experienced keepers use them with wood enclosures. They may get too hot under glass, but of course, you will have substrate down too, and the tort can move on and off of it. The other option is to attach the mat to the side of the aquarium. You may have to move it around, based on temps.
That is the most important thing you can do, is monitor temps with a good thermometer, and move things around to get the temps right. 
If the heat mat does not work, or more experienced keepers advise against it, you have to come up with plan 'B'.


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## Tnewton (Sep 30, 2011)

MVB bulbs suck. Id go with the CHE and a reptisun uvb tube. Undertank heaters work just fine, you could also get under substrate heaters. Just keep an eye in temps if you go with a undertank heater


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## Tony the tank (Sep 30, 2011)

The under tank heaters..really don't heat the enclosure much especially if you use a thick bed of substrate..

If you are using a 55 gallon tank...you would need a strong CHE...to reach the substrate.. A option you have is to get a small 60 watt emitter and actualy place it in the tank somewhere the animal cannot come in contact with it.. Use a bulb cage.. Then cover the tank with a screen partly wrapped in plastic wrap..or anything that will hold in the heat and humidity.. Parialy so you can keep air flow..and if you use a screen get the one with the big holes... The tightly woven screens will hinder the UVB bulb considerably..[/b]


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## HipsterTorts (Sep 30, 2011)

I really like my powersun, it's worked well so far.
I only put a heat pad under my torts humid hide and only turn it on at night.


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## Tom (Sep 30, 2011)

Tnewton said:


> MVB bulbs suck.



What makes you say this? Did you have a bad experience with one?


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## Tnewton (Sep 30, 2011)

Tom,

Yeah, I have found that they tend to loose the ability to produce uvb rather quickly. I think most people think there actually getting a product that is going to be beneficial to there animals for roughly at least 6 months when in reality after 2-3 months uvb is severly depleted, at least from what im seeing from mine and there rather new and have read several complaints along the same lines. I think that for 70 bucks for a powersun bulb, most would be better going with a straight uvb tube and regular light bulb



Tom said:


> Tnewton said:
> 
> 
> > MVB bulbs suck.
> ...


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## Tony the tank (Oct 1, 2011)

I read the same..Most mvb drop off quite a bit in the first hr of burn in..and most fully deteriorate by 6month...they still put out light but not the beneficial UVB....

But I have also read that by keeping the heat down..Like an externally balasted MVB will help increase the longevity by almost two yrs...Also not putting the bulb in a dome but in a wire cage.... Seems the cooler the bulb stays the slower the UVB deteriorates.. 



Great site lots of info

http://www.uvguide.co.uk/index.htm


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## Tom (Oct 1, 2011)

I'm not saying you are wrong. I have no way of knowing. I have no light meter and I've never tested the UV output of any MVB over time. But how do YOU know this? We are all here to learn and this is the first time I've heard this.

My personal experience: I've seen lots of reptiles of several species develop MBD under florescent UV tubes, but I have not ever seen a single case of MBD come out from under a MVB. It is certainly possible that there have been cases and I just haven't seen them, but I deal with a whole lot of reptiles in a whole lot of housing situations.




Tnewton said:


> Tom,
> 
> Yeah, I have found that they tend to loose the ability to produce uvb rather quickly. I think most people think there actually getting a product that is going to be beneficial to there animals for roughly at least 6 months when in reality after 2-3 months uvb is severly depleted, at least from what im seeing from mine and there rather new and have read several complaints along the same lines. I think that for 70 bucks for a powersun bulb, most would be better going with a straight uvb tube and regular light bulb
> 
> ...


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## Tnewton (Oct 1, 2011)

Tom,

Sure bust my balls in the forum instead of the 500 private messages we exchange daily......HAHAHA.

After us talking lots weeks ago before I went MIA, I bought my MVB's like I was going to. Well after emailing several big time reptile shops, and getting goofy *** anwsers I decided to find out myself. I bought my MVB's and a radiometer. I was getting 65 micro watts whem first plugged in, and now im getting 52. This is only about 3 weeks of having these bulbs. 




quote='Tom' pid='319929' dateline='1317472804']
I'm not saying you are wrong. I have no way of knowing. I have no light meter and I've never tested the UV output of any MVB over time. But how do YOU know this? We are all here to learn and this is the first time I've heard this.

My personal experience: I've seen lots of reptiles of several species develop MBD under florescent UV tubes, but I have not ever seen a single case of MBD come out from under a MVB. It is certainly possible that there have been cases and I just haven't seen them, but I deal with a whole lot of reptiles in a whole lot of housing situations.




Tnewton said:


> Tom,
> 
> Yeah, I have found that they tend to loose the ability to produce uvb rather quickly. I think most people think there actually getting a product that is going to be beneficial to there animals for roughly at least 6 months when in reality after 2-3 months uvb is severly depleted, at least from what im seeing from mine and there rather new and have read several complaints along the same lines. I think that for 70 bucks for a powersun bulb, most would be better going with a straight uvb tube and regular light bulb
> 
> ...




[/quote]


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## lynnedit (Oct 1, 2011)

Cory said:


> I have a deep dome fixture on a stand so i can move it up and down, so that's not an issue. I put on one of the aquarium tops (the glass covers) and the humidity is at 65 with only the plant lights going so thats and improvement, And as far as the CHE I'm not to sure I have enough room for another fixture in the tank unless I removed the top and then it will be an issue with humidity, so my question now is should or could i go with an under tank heater for the cool side and just put it on a thermostat or is that a bad idea. Thanks in advance all your advice is great and much appreciated.



As you can see, there is lots of controversy! Since you will have Redfoots, specifically, why don't you do a search for Terryo's enclosures. She uses aquariums when they are in for the winter, with lots of plants for humidity. Her Redfoots do very well from hatchlings, and her enclosures are gorgeous. You can also PM her if you have any questions. 
Here is one thread. Your aquarium is a bit smaller, but similar idea. She does use CHE's and describes how.
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/Thread-Pio-s-new-vivarium#axzz1ZXYONyCr
Meanwhile, this is an interesting thread!


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## Tom (Oct 1, 2011)

Haha. No ball-busting here. Just trying to learn. What does your radiometer register for one of the tube florescent lights?

We had a thread a while back about the different types of light measuring meters. It got so complex and debatable that I just sort of tuned out. For people in AZ and Southern CA, who get warm days and sunshine year round, I just don't think it matters as much. I'd like to hear more from the people in the "frozen North" who depend on these bulbs all winter long. I know that some people up there sun there torts all summer long as much as possible and then use NO UV bulbs of any kind over the winter.


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## Tnewton (Oct 1, 2011)

I dont have a tube uvb right now. Just my MVB'S. These bulbs should be ok to get me through winter, at least im hopeful. Id be a little scared to have no uvb on my torts all winter as it pretty much is 3/4 of the year up here...lol. In summer I go without uvb as they get outside daily for at least an hour.


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## DesertGrandma (Oct 1, 2011)

@Tnewton: Just got a radiometer myself. Didn't want to throw out the expensive bulbs unless/until they were in fact "worn out." Would you mind telling me what the reading should be in order to still be effective. Thanks


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## Tnewton (Oct 1, 2011)

I dont have a tube uvb right now. Just my MVB'S. These bulbs should be ok to get me through winter, at least im hopeful. Id be a little scared to have no uvb on my torts all winter as it pretty much is 3/4 of the year up here...lol. In summer I go without uvb as they get outside daily for at least an hour.

Hey DG,

I would say as long as it dont read zero your good. There is no exact number of micro watts of uvb that torts are supposed to get, just as long as they get some.


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## Cory (Oct 2, 2011)

Ok so what wattage should I go with for the CHE? I guess I will plan on running it 24/7


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## lynnedit (Oct 2, 2011)

Terryo (see earlier link) uses two 150W CHE's on either end with her aquariums (one is 78 gal).
However, she uses a tube light which does not give out heat. Since you have the MVB 100W on the other side, having the CHE on a thermostat with a wire probe to the substrate will prevent the enclosure from over heating. It may need to be on all of the time, or just at night, but the thermostat will take care of that for you.
Be sure to look at her pics, lots of good ideas.


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## Maggie Cummings (Oct 2, 2011)

Ok...I don't have any way of measuring the UVB of my bulbs. I simply use my experience...All summer long all my animals are outside during the day and inside at night. All winter long (abt 7 months)they are inside and I mostly don't use UVB bulbs. If I have growing babies or sick babies I use a UVB light. I prefer T-Rex, if I can't get a T-Rex, I use a Powersun. I don't measure the rays. I just use them. I raise good healthy animals. I believe we can out think this thing. We can think about it too much and over talk the thing and recommend stuff when we shouldn't. I really just use my experience. I used spiral bulbs on 3 Sulcata hatchlings, one died, one was blinded and I found another home for the third. So that tells me not to use spiral bulbs. I don't like tube UVB bulbs. I like flood light type bulbs. I don't like CHE's, I DO use black light bulbs for extra heat and night time heat. I still go a lot by what I was taught, it worked then and it works now. I research stuff, and pay strict attention to my animals. Mostly it is them who will teach us. I don't now and have never used a UVB bulb for my box turtles and they are beautiful active and healthy. I have raised them from hatchlings. I do put them outside all summer and bring them in at night and for the winter months. They look good and act fine. They are healthy. My tortoises are healthy. I use calcium w/D3. I won't say they don't ever get sick, but they mostly don't. Right now Abscess Nose is not eating well but the abscess in his nasal cavity seems to be gone, he doesn't have mucous dripping anymore. He will eat softened squash but he won't graze or eat any lettuces. Personally, I think he is just spoiled, but time will tell. He does have a UVB bulb because of how he's acting. Anyhow, I just wanted to give my opinion on the bulbs, I think we need to feed a good varied diet and that makes up for a lot of what they are missing out on. I don't believe UVB bulbs are all that necessary. That what my experience tells me...


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## fbsmith3 (Oct 2, 2011)

I have a Zoomet ReptiSun 5.0 Compact Fluorescent. It came in a combo pack with the Basking bulb. My BT loves the basking bulb and it regulated the temperature so well on the hot side.

I'll probally just use the ReptiSun as an expensive plant light and continue to use the Florescent tube plant light to get her the UVB. Lesson learned.


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## Tnewton (Oct 2, 2011)

Im not a fan of CHE either, I prefer the red or black bulbs if I need night heat. I do agree Maggie, I think we over think this and spend wayyyyy to much on products we dont need. As I started testing my MVB bulbs a few weeks ago im beginning to just say [email protected] it and use a regular white light bulb for heat and a black bulb at night. My torts are outside when its nice but in winter their inside. 



fbsmith3 said:


> I have a Zoomet ReptiSun 5.0 Compact Fluorescent. It came in a combo pack with the Basking bulb. My BT loves the basking bulb and it regulated the temperature so well on the hot side.
> 
> I'll probally just use the ReptiSun as an expensive plant light and continue to use the Florescent tube plant light to get her the UVB. Lesson learned.



You dont wanna use the compact bulb just incase you didnt read that


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## fbsmith3 (Oct 2, 2011)

Yes I realize the Zoomed CFL was just an expensive waste of money. I'll use it as a plant light, since if the plants start to look bad, I can always not use it and they'll come back. If my Cleo looks bad, I'll feel guilty and spend a lot of money at the vet getting her better and feeling terribly guilty.


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## lynnedit (Oct 2, 2011)

Sorry, Cory, you will have a baby Sulcata, now that I look over this thread again. Somehow I converted this to a Redfoot between page one and three, lol!
Anyway, sounds like you have most of what you will need and are paying attention to warmth and humidity. There is more than one way to do this, as you can see. 
A lot of what you end up using will depend upon you paying attention to your tort, his activity level and appetite, etc. 
Follow the advice from experienced keepers who have raised Sulcatas from hatchlings.
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/Thread-How-To-Raise-Sulcata-Hatchlings-and-Babies#axzz1ZbRusWoo
And make sure you have a good thermometer!


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## Tom (Oct 3, 2011)

Cory said:


> Ok so what wattage should I go with for the CHE? I guess I will plan on running it 24/7



I usually use the 60s, but this will depend on your house and set-up. I like to use as little electricity as possible, so if a 60 maintains my temps, no need for a 100.

You really ought to run the CHE on a thermostat. They only cost around $25 and they will save you money on your electric bill AND maintain the right temps for your torts all the time.


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## Cory (Oct 3, 2011)

I will be ordering the thermostat in the next day or so, I'm going to make a trip to a few local stores to see if they have any and depending if the don't I will just order online. Also I will try a 60 watt and see how it does and upgrade to a 100 watt if need be. Thanks, for all the wonderful advice and help. I really appreciate it, and thank you all for not biting my head off like a lot of people do in forums.


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## Tnewton (Oct 3, 2011)

I personally would only use the CHE at night. During the day your tort needs temps to vary. Unless you live in antartica you should be fine with just the heat during the day and CHE in thermo as Tom stated at about 75 degrees. It dont get that cold im SC does it???


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## Cory (Oct 3, 2011)

Tnewton said:


> I personally would only use the CHE at night. During the day your tort needs temps to vary. Unless you live in antartica you should be fine with just the heat during the day and CHE in thermo as Tom stated at about 75 degrees. It dont get that cold im SC does it???



No it doesn't get that cold, and the winters aren't harsh.


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## lynnedit (Oct 3, 2011)

I am glad you are getting the thermostat. That really takes the guesswork out of it.


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## Cory (Oct 3, 2011)

I believe I got everything ironed out now. I'm going to be ordering my sully Friday. And I cannot wait as soon as he/she comes in I will post pics.


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## Tnewton (Oct 3, 2011)

Cory said:


> I believe I got everything ironed out now. I'm going to be ordering my sully Friday. And I cannot wait as soon as he/she comes in I will post pics.




Where you getting him from? Lots of turnip and collard greens...lol


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## Cory (Oct 4, 2011)

Underground Reptiles, in FL, they are closer than ordering from NV or CA.


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## Tnewton (Oct 4, 2011)

​




Yeah but no matter where you order from it will arrive the same day. I havent heard bad or good things about them. I do know they dont anwser emails. If you wanna order from Florida try reptmart, very good service and quality animals. Or Tom has some great healthy sully babies



Cory said:


> Underground Reptiles, in FL, they are closer than orderin





Cory said:


> g from NV or CA.


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## Cory (Oct 4, 2011)

I've had the opposite with them they respond with in a couple hours of my email. I'm not too picky who or where I get it from I just want a healthy baby.


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## Maggie Cummings (Oct 4, 2011)

fbsmith3 said:


> I have a Zoomet ReptiSun 5.0 Compact Fluorescent. It came in a combo pack with the Basking bulb. My BT loves the basking bulb and it regulated the temperature so well on the hot side.
> 
> I'll probally just use the ReptiSun as an expensive plant light and continue to use the Florescent tube plant light to get her the UVB. Lesson learned.



I'm hoping you read my post about the compact flourscent bulb blinding my hatchling Sulcata and killing another one. So please don't use it on your tortoises. Why it blinds reptiles I don't know but I do know it does and there's been a lot of chatter on the Internet from reptile keepers about them. Lizards especially...
I don't have time right now to hunt up the link for you from a site that tests UVB bulbs and what they wrote about the compact bulbs. But in the next day or so I will hunt it up and post it for all you newbies...


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## fbsmith3 (Oct 4, 2011)

I started a correspondence with Zoo-Med about their Reptisun 5.0 CFL. The assured me that they engineered it to be safe as long as it's used as instructed.

My wife and I have a lot of houseplants we keep outside during the summer, some are huge. I'm using the Reptisun 5.0 as a plant light right now. If some of the plants start to suffer, no big deal, since they can easily recover. 

Cleo the amazing Box Turtle, has a window so she gets a little sun and she shares an ugly florescent lamp with a new UVB tube with some of the plants. She prefers her basking bulb above all else. I could have save a lot of money if I just bought the basking bulb and the florescent tube in the first place.


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## Tnewton (Oct 5, 2011)

fbsmith3 said:


> I started a correspondence with Zoo-Med about their Reptisun 5.0 CFL. The assured me that they engineered it to be safe as long as it's used as instructed.
> 
> My wife and I have a lot of houseplants we keep outside during the summer, some are huge. I'm using the Reptisun 5.0 as a plant light right now. If some of the plants start to suffer, no big deal, since they can easily recover.
> 
> Cleo the amazing Box Turtle, has a window so she gets a little sun and she shares an ugly florescent lamp with a new UVB tube with some of the plants. She prefers her basking bulb above all else. I could have save a lot of money if I just bought the basking bulb and the florescent tube in the first place.




Yeah, the prob with the bulbs was back in 08/09 since then they have stated the problem has been fixed. No one really kniws forsure if they are or not. I know some reptile keepers/shops that still use them with no probs. Personally I myself wouldnt be afraid to use them now, id just watch my torts closely. These companies arent going to risk customers by not fixing problems with products


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