# Russian tortoise white blood cell count low so needs ct scan?



## No1much (Feb 25, 2021)

Hey guys. My russian tortoise has been unwell for a few weeks. I took him to the vet 2 weeks ago and they said he might have an infection and gave me oral baytril. I've had mixed success getting him to eat it but he started to improve. This week he's been very sluggish in the mornings but perks up in the afternoon. Although he's not eating or pooping much (he is doing both just not much) he is drinking. Today I gave him a long carrot soak and as I took him out I noticed an orange-ish patch on his chest. I'm sure it wasn't there a few days ago. Is this scud ? I've called the vet and got an emergency appointment for 930 am. Is it serious? He is sleeping on newspaper atm because of worming and I did notice a picture of a rose where he sleeps. Could it be transfer ?


----------



## TaylorTortoise (Feb 25, 2021)

@ZEROPILOT @MichaelL


----------



## ZEROPILOT (Feb 25, 2021)

I'd be leery of a vet that prescribed a specific oral antibiotic because it MIGHT be necessary.
All antibiotics kill gut bacteria and it's 100% normal for a recently treated tortoise to not eat and if he is also being treated for worms. I'd expect him to just about shut down.
That discoloration may or may not be septicemia. It could also be something less serious.
If you still trust this vet, ask specifically about that


----------



## TaylorTortoise (Feb 25, 2021)

ZEROPILOT said:


> I'd be leery of a vet that prescribed a specific oral antibiotic because it MIGHT be necessary.
> All antibiotics kill gut bacteria and it's 100% normal for a recently treated tortoise to not eat and if he is also being treated for worms. I'd expect him to just about shut down.
> That discoloration may or may not be septicemia.
> If you still trust this vet, ask specifically about that


Is septicemia dangerous for a tortoises?


----------



## ZEROPILOT (Feb 25, 2021)

Taylorlynn48 said:


> Is septicemia dangerous for a tortoises?


Yes.
It can be deadly.
But I'm no expert on that and I'm not making a diagnosis.
I'm just relating what I've seen before.
I strongly recommend mentioning it to the vet and have them test for it.


----------



## Maggie3fan (Feb 25, 2021)

ZEROPILOT said:


> Yes.
> It can be deadly.
> But I'm no expert on that and I'm not making a diagnosis.
> I'm just relating what I've seen before.
> I strongly recommend mentioning it to the vet and have them test for it.


And indeed it starts looking exactly like that, but the tort did just come out of a carrot food soak...


----------



## TaylorTortoise (Feb 25, 2021)

maggie3fan said:


> And indeed it starts looking exactly like that, but the tort did just come out of a carrot food soak...


Starts looking exactly like what?


----------



## ZEROPILOT (Feb 25, 2021)

Taylorlynn48 said:


> Starts looking exactly like what?


A pink, red or orange area on the plastron


----------



## TaylorTortoise (Feb 25, 2021)

ZEROPILOT said:


> A pink, red or orange area on the plastron


As a sign of septicemia?


----------



## ZEROPILOT (Feb 25, 2021)

Taylorlynn48 said:


> As a sign of septicemia?


Yes
Although we see it much more often in water turtles than land tortoises


----------



## No1much (Feb 25, 2021)

maggie3fan said:


> And indeed it starts looking exactly like that, but the tort did just come out of a carrot food soak...



Thanks all very much for the replies. I did give him a carrot soak but had a second tub with normal water prepared too and soaked him in there after because I didn't want to leave him sticky or smelling of carrot, or worse him ending up a petri dish for bacteria living off carrot remains stuck to his body. Sorry should have mentioned that. I agree though it could be carrot or news paper transfer. I was just freaking out. He's seeing a different vet today so we'll get a second opinion and I'm going to ask for bloods etc to figure out what exactly is going on with the lil guy.


----------



## No1much (Feb 25, 2021)

ZEROPILOT said:


> Yes
> Although we see it much more often in water turtles than land tortoises


Thank you for your replies.Yeah. I tried to research as much as I could online. There doesn't seem to be much information but what is there does indicate it's more common in turtles so it's giving me a little bit of hope. I'm just so worried for him. I'm at a complete loss as to how he could have even picked up such a serious infection if it is that. He's never had an injury or anything like that.


----------



## KarenSoCal (Feb 25, 2021)

Like ZEROPILOT said, just being on antibiotics can cause a tortoise to stop eating. And we don't even know for sure that there is any infection.

Regardless of the cause of not eating, I would raise his temps. Heat seems to help them, especially for a respiratory infection. I'd raise ambient temp to 30-32°C., and lowest at night 29°C. 
Leave it there until meds are finished and he's back to feeling good.


----------



## No1much (Feb 25, 2021)

KarenSoCal said:


> Like ZEROPILOT said, just being on antibiotics can cause a tortoise to stop eating. And we don't even know for sure that there is any infection.
> 
> Regardless of the cause of not eating, I would raise his temps. Heat seems to help them, especially for a respiratory infection. I'd raise ambient temp to 30-32°C., and lowest at night 29°C.
> Leave it there until meds are finished and he's back to feeling good.



Thank you. Yeah I have raised his temps to try to help him heal up. Someone said to raise them to at least 27 but if you recommend 29 I'll push it further. Any recommendations on how I can restore his gut microbiome or at least do what I can to maintain it during this process ?


----------



## No1much (Feb 26, 2021)

Brief update. Been to vets today. He's had bloods taken and given an antibiotic to be injected daily for 2 weeks. Grand total of £250 but worth every penny if it gets my lil man better.


----------



## harrythetortoise (Feb 26, 2021)

No1much said:


> Brief update. Been to vets today. He's had bloods taken and given an antibiotic to be injected daily for 2 weeks. Grand total of £250 but worth every penny if it gets my lil man better.


Did they give you the diagnosis?


----------



## No1much (Feb 26, 2021)

harrythetortoise said:


> Did they give you the diagnosis?


That's a work in progress. We're starting off with bloods to check for organ function and white blood cells. Then when those results come back, if the cause can't be determined they're going to start x-rays to rule out gout and other things. Hopefully it's something straight forward. It's just my luck it won't be though haha.


----------



## harrythetortoise (Feb 26, 2021)

No1much said:


> That's a work in progress. We're starting off with bloods to check for organ function and white blood cells. Then when those results come back, if the cause can't be determined they're going to start x-rays to rule out gout and other things. Hopefully it's something straight forward. It's just my luck it won't be though haha.


Wish him luck, and keep us posted!?


----------



## No1much (Feb 26, 2021)

harrythetortoise said:


> Wish him luck, and keep us posted!?


I definitely will. Thank you


----------



## Maggie3fan (Feb 26, 2021)

No1much said:


> That's a work in progress. We're starting off with bloods to check for organ function and white blood cells. Then when those results come back, if the cause can't be determined they're going to start x-rays to rule out gout and other things. Hopefully it's something straight forward. It's just my luck it won't be though haha.


Hi...I am not second guessing a professional, but, how can you be prescribed antibiotics before there is a confirmed diagnosis? Especially since antibiotics are so hard on them.


----------



## zovick (Feb 26, 2021)

No1much said:


> I definitely will. Thank you ☺


Did you point out that pinkish area on the plastron to the vet or was it not there any longer? If it was there, what did he/she say it might be? It looks like septicemia to me. If it starts spreading and becoming more obvious around the edges of the plastron, you can be pretty sure it is septicemia.


----------



## No1much (Feb 26, 2021)

maggie3fan said:


> Hi...I am not second guessing a professional, but, how can you be prescribed antibiotics before there is a confirmed diagnosis? Especially since antibiotics are so hard on them.


I 100% get where you are coming from. I'm not going to lie I feel exactly the same. Its frightening. I've second guessed even giving him the antibiotics before a propper diagnosis but I'm between a rock and a hard place. If I hold off and there is an infection then I risk it progressing. I guess I'm just in a position where I have to trust the vets judgement.


----------



## No1much (Feb 26, 2021)

zovick said:


> Did you point out that pinkish area on the plastron to the vet or was it not there any longer? If it was there, what did he/she say it might be? It looks like septicemia to me. If it starts spreading and becoming more obvious around the edges of the plastron, you can be pretty sure it is septicemia.


Yeah it was pointed out. His primary concern is septicemia and we're working with that assumption until tests come back.


----------



## Maggie3fan (Feb 26, 2021)

No1much said:


> I 100% get where you are coming from. I'm not going to lie I feel exactly the same. Its frightening. I've second guessed even giving him the antibiotics before a propper diagnosis but I'm between a rock and a hard place. If I hold off and there is an infection then I risk it progressing. I guess I'm just in a position where I have to trust the vets judgement.


But...the blood test that they did will tell you septicemia, yes or no. Then you use the antibiotic. That just seems normal to me, and I have had a couple of box turtles with septicemia,and I do know how serious it is. But giving our tortoises an antibiotic is also serious, they stop eating, so now you have another problem. How long for the test result?


----------



## harrythetortoise (Feb 26, 2021)

maggie3fan said:


> But...the blood test that they did will tell you septicemia, yes or no. Then you use the antibiotic. That just seems normal to me, and I have had a couple of box turtles with septicemia,and I do know how serious it is. But giving our tortoises an antibiotic is also serious, they stop eating, so now you have another problem. How long for the test result?


Do you know what normally causes tortoises to have septicemia?


----------



## Maggie3fan (Feb 26, 2021)

harrythetortoise said:


> Do you know what normally causes tortoises to have septicemia?


Sometimes it's an infection that goes unnoticed and eventually that infection goes nuts and causes, septicemia, aka, blood poisoning. Over the years I had 3 box turtles that came in with septicemia, each one was treated as the protocol called for, and all three died. But that was years ago and we all know that chelonia medical diagnosing and treating has come a long way. Things that killed tortoises years ago are treated and the animal improves now


----------



## jaizei (Feb 26, 2021)

> If it starts spreading and becoming more obvious around the edges of the plastron, you can be pretty sure it is septicemia.



Using a transparent sheet with gridlines when you take pictures can help notice changes faster. 



https://amz.run/4LgA


----------



## No1much (Feb 26, 2021)

maggie3fan said:


> But...the blood test that they did will tell you septicemia, yes or no. Then you use the antibiotic. That just seems normal to me, and I have had a couple of box turtles with septicemia,and I do know how serious it is. But giving our tortoises an antibiotic is also serious, they stop eating, so now you have another problem. How long for the test result?


Yeah, the blood test will confirm the presence of infection. I completely understand the issue. I know the severity of antibiotic injections. I'm really worried myself. The results won't be ready until "some time next week" due to the weekend. My little guy has been struggling for at least 3 weeks. I worry that holding off a few more days could get him to a position where its progressed and it's harder to treat, or worse dead. It's a really hard position to be in. I don't take the decision lightly but 2 different vets have said it is likely an infection.


----------



## No1much (Feb 26, 2021)

harrythetortoise said:


> Do you know what normally causes tortoises to have septicemia?





harrythetortoise said:


> Do you know what normally causes tortoises to have septicemia?


As I understand it. It can be caused by shell rot, injury or poor water quality. As far as I know he hasn't experienced any of these. I can't be with him 24/7 though so I can't rule out him hurting himself at some point and me not noticing.


----------



## Jan A (Feb 26, 2021)

No1much said:


> As I understand it. It can be caused by shell rot, injury or poor water quality. As far as I know he hasn't experienced any of these. I can't be with him 24/7 though so I can't rule out him hurting himself at some point and me not noticing.


 Boy, this is tough. The tort can't tell you what's wrong & you can"t get early test results. Has there been any change to his plastron since the last photo? Sending good vibes your way!!


----------



## No1much (Feb 26, 2021)

Jan A said:


> Boy, this is tough. The tort can't tell you what's wrong & you can"t get early test results. Has there been any change to his plastron since the last photo? Sending good vibes your way!!


No I don't think there has been a significant change. I literally took this pic just this minute after a soak. The pic is slightly clearer and better lighting but I don't think it's changed.


----------



## Jan A (Feb 26, 2021)

No1much said:


> No I don't think there has been a significant change. I literally took this pic just this minute after a soak. The pic is slightly clearer and better lighting but I don't think it's changed.


Still thinking of you & your tort. Hoping the tests come back fast &/or the meds start to work quickly.


----------



## No1much (Feb 27, 2021)

Jan A said:


> Still thinking of you & your tort. Hoping the tests come back fast &/or the meds start to work quickly.


Aww thank you so much


----------



## Sarah2020 (Feb 27, 2021)

Good luck and keep us posted.


----------



## No1much (Mar 1, 2021)

Hi all. 
My Russian tortoise hasn't been well lately. We originally thought was just an infection, then thought could be scud. We took him to the vets (as outlined in a previous post https://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/orange-ish-patch-on-shell-scud.189830/ ) the vet did bloods and said his organs seem fine however his white blood cell count is around 0.5 rather than the 4.5 that it should be. He's currently on antibiotics. Vet recommends we finish this course, repeat bloods and if there is no sign of improvement then we should have a ct scan done to try to see if there is a localized infection within his body or an abscess somewhere.
I'm just curious if anybody else has experience of this situation. 
The price of a blood test is 180 quid and the scan is 750 (without dye because he's so small) this vet seems quite expensive compared to my previous vet. Is this the norm for uk prices? Obviously I'm going to pay regardless. I'm just cautious. 

Any advice or input of any kind would be appreciated.


----------



## ZenHerper (Mar 1, 2021)

[It's best to keep all of your replies/updates on the same initial thread...people lose track of which-tort-is-which, and have to ask all the same questions over and over.]

Is this a for-sure male? Are they eating, drinking, urinating, passing stool?

Was there an x-ray taken? Females having trouble with follicles or eggs have low white counts. When the immune system is actively coping an infection, white cells are usually very high...

When tortoises have a tough dormancy season, they can end up with low white blood cell counts. This predisposes them to opportunistic infections.

Some things to discuss with your vet:
post-dormancy syndrome: http://www.britishcheloniagroup.org.uk/testudo/v6/v6n1mcarthur

in females: http://www.britishcheloniagroup.org.uk/vetscorner/reproductive

further analysis of females: http://www.britishcheloniagroup.org.uk/vetscorner/stasis


----------



## No1much (Mar 1, 2021)

ZenHerper said:


> [It's best to keep all of your replies/updates on the same initial thread...people lose track of which-tort-is-which, and have to ask all the same questions over and over.]
> 
> Is this a for-sure male? Are they eating, drinking, urinating, passing stool?
> 
> ...



Thanks for the comment.
Sorry yeah I made a new thread because although it was about the same tortoises illness in my mind it seemed like a different topic. Sorry.

I've seen what I thought was his penis quite a few times. He gets it out quite regularly. No x-ray has been taken. They originally talked about an xray but then said it might not give the detail they need to see if there is an issue internally. 

Regarding white blood cell count. I thought the same. I thought it would be high in cases of infection. The vet said the while blood cells could be getting utilized somewhere within his body so might not be present in the blood and to stay the course with antibiotics to protect him while his count is still low. This is one of the reasons I came here. It just seems a little iffy to me and wondered what other people's opinions are. 

Regarding dormancy syndrome. He's never been hibernated because he is thought to be 2-3 years old. My previous vet didn't recommend it because when I first got him his shell was still slightly "soft". We werent 100% sure if it was because he was young or whether it was poor husbandry before I got him. If he's never hibernated could dormancy syndrome still be an issue ?


----------



## ZenHerper (Mar 1, 2021)

No1much said:


> Thanks for the comment.
> Sorry yeah I made a new thread because although it was about the same tortoises illness in my mind it seemed like a different topic. Sorry.
> 
> I've seen what I thought was his penis quite a few times. He gets it out quite regularly. No x-ray has been taken. They originally talked about an xray but then said it might not give the detail they need to see if there is an issue internally.
> ...



Yep. Male. lol OK.

Sequestration of WBCs can happen. Tortoises can have odd WBC responses to lots of things (like different kinds of anesthetics).

Indoor dormancy is a weird thing. People frequently complain in late January-Feb that their tort is sluggish, not eating, falling asleep in its soak pan, etc.. Reptile brains will cue from a variety of environmental conditions, including drops in room temperature that our metabolisms become used to (reptile metabolism is tied entirely to ambient temperatures, so when one layer of heat changes, they are adversely affected, even if heat bulbs and thermostats have remained in use). Other cues may involve daylight length, subtle changes to ambient humidity, and possibly atmospheric and electromagnetic differentials.

In short, it is possible for a tortoise to be maintained indoors under apparent Temperate conditions, but yet their physiology switches over to Dormant mode. With all the attendant features and potential complications. For sure, on the table.

X-rays are great for detecting mineralized stuff (bones, eggs, bladder/kidney stones)...depends a lot on who is taking and reading the graph how much soft tissue detail can be seen.

So it still comes down to Trust. If your vet is a reptile specialist, then I'd say discuss Dormancy Syndrome, and have really compelling reasons to rule it out. 

If this are not a specialty practice, and since you are considering more specialized testing, then I'd ask for a referral to a herp-dedicated practice. Take those higher-stakes (higher-cost) steps with the highest degree of confidence that you can.


----------



## No1much (Mar 1, 2021)

ZenHerper said:


> Yep. Male. lol OK.
> 
> Sequestration of WBCs can happen. Tortoises can have odd WBC responses to lots of things (like different kinds of anesthetics).
> 
> ...



I will definitely discuss this with my vet. The vet I'm dealing with is part of a vetinary hospital and specializes in exotics/reptiles/birds. He seems to indicate online that birds are more his thing. He has rcvs and CertAVP if that means anything to you lol.

It will be a struggle to pay these bills but I love my little guy and honestly would rather eat bread and water than not give him the help he needs. What does concern me most is medical interventions that he doesn't need hence why I'm seeking advice or that all of this might be an over reaction or unnecessary.


----------



## ZenHerper (Mar 1, 2021)

No1much said:


> I will definitely discuss this with my vet. The vet I'm dealing with is part of a vetinary hospital and specializes in exotics/reptiles/birds. He seems to indicate online that birds are more his thing. He has rcvs and CertAVP if that means anything to you lol.
> 
> It will be a struggle to pay these bills but I love my little guy and honestly would rather eat bread and water than not give him the help he needs. What does concern me most is medical interventions that he doesn't need hence why I'm seeking advice or that all of this might be an over reaction or unnecessary.



I think RCVS is just the Royal College of Veterinary Surgeons...so the main oversight licensing board.

The Certificate in Advanced Veterinary Practice is a self study post-graduate continuing education whatsit. Not specific to any one thing from what I can find.

If he seems amenable, you might ask to be passed on to someone in the building for whom torts is more their thing. lol

As to what your pet needs, I'm afraid no one on the internet can really say with certainty. Opinions are plentiful. But every caregiver has to make their own decisions.


----------



## No1much (Mar 1, 2021)

ZenHerper said:


> I think RCVS is just the Royal College of Veterinary Surgeons...so the main oversight licensing board.
> 
> The Certificate in Advanced Veterinary Practice is a self study post-graduate continuing education whatsit. Not specific to any one thing from what I can find.
> 
> ...



I know your absolutely right and I have to make these decisions but I kinda just want you to hop on a plane and come deal with it for me. Sorry about that ??.


----------



## ZenHerper (Mar 1, 2021)

No1much said:


> I know your absolutely right and I have to make these decisions but I kinda just want you to hop on a plane and come deal with it for me. Sorry about that ??.



((Hugs))

We're all with you in your heart.

You have good instincts. Go with your gut.

Let us know how you're making out.

*********************

If @Yvonne G could tape your three threads together...? =D


----------



## No1much (Mar 1, 2021)

ZenHerper said:


> ((Hugs))
> 
> We're all with you in your heart.
> 
> ...



Thank you so much. Will keep you guys informed and keep it to one thread in future... Sorry lol.


----------



## Krista S (Mar 1, 2021)

No1much said:


> Thank you so much. Will keep you guys informed and keep it to one thread in future... Sorry lol.


Sorry for what you’re going through with your little guy. Thank you for loving him and getting him the best care you can. This must be heartbreaking to work through. I’ve been following your journey, so I just wanted to let you know I’m sending positive thoughts your way and hoping you get some answers and a solution very soon.


----------



## No1much (Mar 1, 2021)

Krista S said:


> Sorry for what you’re going through with your little guy. Thank you for loving him and getting him the best care you can. This must be heartbreaking to work through. I’ve been following your journey, so I just wanted to let you know I’m sending positive thoughts your way and hoping you get some answers and a solution very soon.


Aww thank you very much. It's very much appreciated


----------



## No1much (Mar 4, 2021)

Hey guys. Just a quick update. Cadwell has come on leaps and bounds the last few days. He's pretty much living his best life at the moment. His appetite is back. He's pooping (relatively) normal and he's got a hell of an attitude problem. Probably because of the needles ?. Something I am starting to notice though is his shell isn't growing very tidily. It's a bit crinkly and warped in places. Could this be part of an underlying issue that made him so Ill? I've attached pics.


----------



## harrythetortoise (Mar 4, 2021)

No1much said:


> Hey guys. Just a quick update. Cadwell has come on leaps and bounds the last few days. He's pretty much living his best life at the moment. His appetite is back. He's pooping (relatively) normal and he's got a hell of an attitude problem. Probably because of the needles ?. Something I am starting to notice though is his shell isn't growing very tidily. It's a bit crinkly and warped in places. Could this be part of an underlying issue that made him so Ill? I've attached pics.
> View attachment 319955


Great to hear! 
Shell looks fine to me. I've read that it's common for Russian tortoises to have shells a little bumpy.


----------



## No1much (Mar 4, 2021)

harrythetortoise said:


> Great to hear!
> Shell looks fine to me. I've read that it's common for Russian tortoises to have shells a little bumpy.


Ahh good phew thank you. I think I'm just looking into everything to much now haha ?


----------



## ZenHerper (Mar 4, 2021)

Great news!

Reptiles develop symptoms of illness slowly, and they recover slowly. Keep up the good work!


----------



## TaylorTortoise (Mar 8, 2021)

No1much said:


> Hey guys. Just a quick update. Cadwell has come on leaps and bounds the last few days. He's pretty much living his best life at the moment. His appetite is back. He's pooping (relatively) normal and he's got a hell of an attitude problem. Probably because of the needles ?. Something I am starting to notice though is his shell isn't growing very tidily. It's a bit crinkly and warped in places. Could this be part of an underlying issue that made him so Ill? I've attached pics.
> View attachment 319955


Is this a Westernn Hermans?


----------



## No1much (Mar 8, 2021)

Taylorlynn48 said:


> Is this a Westernn Hermans?


No it's a Russian/ horsfield


----------



## No1much (Mar 19, 2021)

Hi all. Just an update on Cadwell for anybody interested. After his second blood test his white blood cell count has increased by a tiny amount. However the rest of his bloods were fine (minus a slight calcium reduction due to his not eating) we finished his antibiotics but, typically, when administering the final dose my partner must've been a bit too rough with cadwells front right leg because he wouldn't move it for days after (he feels really guilty) when a new vet (who was amazing and so knowledgeable) rang with the blood results I explained the leg situation and she checked the records and said that was also the leg they took bloods from the day before too and it's probably just been injured by being manhandled two days running and to keep an eye but it should be fine.

Cadwell seems much better in himself. He's moving in and out of his basking spot. Eating (just his faves so far) but eating daily. He's even had an escape attempt or two. He's pooped and urated a couple of times. And he's putting some weight on that bad leg now. He's very slow but he is on the mend.

The new vet agreed that some torts do slow down in winter and white blood cells can naturally drop but there was clearly an infection due to his turn around after the antibiotics. She recommends giving him 4-6 weeks of good food, vitamins and plenty of baths and space to heal and we'll see how he is after that time. Obviously if he starts to go downhill again I am to take him straight back. But yeah that's where we are atm.

attached pic of Cadwell (left) and his brother blink having a soak.
vid of Cadwell having some tortoise diet (not the healthiest I know but it's one of the only things he's interested in eating atm)


----------



## ZenHerper (Mar 19, 2021)

Feels great to find a doc who hears you, eh? =))

The tortoise pellets are fine - better than just eating lettuce, or some other one-thing graze.

To clarify - these guys have separate habitats?


----------



## No1much (Mar 19, 2021)

ZenHerper said:


> Feels great to find a doc who hears you, eh? =))
> 
> The tortoise pellets are fine - better than just eating lettuce, or some other one-thing graze.
> 
> To clarify - these guys have separate habitats?



Yeah he is spoiled! He has at least 4 different foods to eat per day! 

They are in separate tables. Blink would probably eat Cadwell if he had the chance he's very aggressive even though he's smaller. 

The top pic is cadwells (my tortoise)
The bottom pic is blinks (my partners tortoise) Blinks is a mess because he is the most hyperactive troublemaker of a tortoise you have ever seen


----------



## ZenHerper (Mar 19, 2021)

Super!

Reptiles mend slowly, but so far so good!

Thanks for the update. =))


----------



## No1much (Mar 19, 2021)

ZenHerper said:


> Super!
> 
> Reptiles mend slowly, but so far so good!
> 
> Thanks for the update. =))


Your welcome thanks for all your help


----------



## KarenSoCal (Mar 19, 2021)

I'm so very happy to hear this! Wonderful!


----------



## harrythetortoise (Mar 19, 2021)

Glad to hear! Thank you for the update ?


----------



## Maggie3fan (Mar 19, 2021)

No1much said:


> Hi all. Just an update on Cadwell for anybody interested. After his second blood test his white blood cell count has increased by a tiny amount. However the rest of his bloods were fine (minus a slight calcium reduction due to his not eating) we finished his antibiotics but, typically, when administering the final dose my partner must've been a bit too rough with cadwells front right leg because he wouldn't move it for days after (he feels really guilty) when a new vet (who was amazing and so knowledgeable) rang with the blood results I explained the leg situation and she checked the records and said that was also the leg they took bloods from the day before too and it's probably just been injured by being manhandled two days running and to keep an eye but it should be fine.
> 
> Cadwell seems much better in himself. He's moving in and out of his basking spot. Eating (just his faves so far) but eating daily. He's even had an escape attempt or two. He's pooped and urated a couple of times. And he's putting some weight on that bad leg now. He's very slow but he is on the mend.
> 
> ...


You do realize that obviously there's a lot of TFO members who do care and we are interested.


----------



## No1much (Mar 19, 2021)

maggie3fan said:


> You do realize that obviously there's a lot of TFO members who do care and we are interested.


Yeah I can see that. It's really heartwarming to see the responses. 

Another reason I'm determined to keep this thread updated is because a couple of times ive searched the forum for posts about an issue myself or a friend might be having but as the saying goes "op never delivers". They kind of explain the situation and get some input but sometimes don't say how the situation ended. So I'm just kind of keeping things updated in case it becomes relevant to someone else at some point so they get the full story. I know I've been guilty of it in the past.


----------



## Blackdog1714 (Mar 19, 2021)

No1much said:


> Yeah he is spoiled! He has at least 4 different foods to eat per day!
> 
> They are in separate tables. Blink would probably eat Cadwell if he had the chance he's very aggressive even though he's smaller.
> 
> ...


Blink has nothing on my leopard. His food is 1 meter from his water dish but always puts food in it with ?, pee, and substrate. My Russian is just grumpy and will burrow and not go in his hide


----------



## Maggie3fan (Mar 19, 2021)

No1much said:


> Yeah I can see that. It's really heartwarming to see the responses.
> 
> Another reason I'm determined to keep this thread updated is because a couple of times ive searched the forum for posts about an issue myself or a friend might be having but as the saying goes "op never delivers". They kind of explain the situation and get some input but sometimes don't say how the situation ended. So I'm just kind of keeping things updated in case it becomes relevant to someone else at some point so they get the full story. I know I've been guilty of it in the past.


Think about this. Instead of adding on to that thread and making it longer you can make different threads (like this one) only different, 1.white blood count another thread Cadwell is eating...another thread cat scan...now I am just making this up, but what I am trying to say, make more threads shorter, and more people will read it. When It gets too long nobody reads all of it...just sayin for a friend


----------



## Jan A (Mar 19, 2021)

No1much said:


> Hi all. Just an update on Cadwell for anybody interested. After his second blood test his white blood cell count has increased by a tiny amount. However the rest of his bloods were fine (minus a slight calcium reduction due to his not eating) we finished his antibiotics but, typically, when administering the final dose my partner must've been a bit too rough with cadwells front right leg because he wouldn't move it for days after (he feels really guilty) when a new vet (who was amazing and so knowledgeable) rang with the blood results I explained the leg situation and she checked the records and said that was also the leg they took bloods from the day before too and it's probably just been injured by being manhandled two days running and to keep an eye but it should be fine.
> 
> Cadwell seems much better in himself. He's moving in and out of his basking spot. Eating (just his faves so far) but eating daily. He's even had an escape attempt or two. He's pooped and urated a couple of times. And he's putting some weight on that bad leg now. He's very slow but he is on the mend.
> 
> ...





No1much said:


> Hi all. Just an update on Cadwell for anybody interested. After his second blood test his white blood cell count has increased by a tiny amount. However the rest of his bloods were fine (minus a slight calcium reduction due to his not eating) we finished his antibiotics but, typically, when administering the final dose my partner must've been a bit too rough with cadwells front right leg because he wouldn't move it for days after (he feels really guilty) when a new vet (who was amazing and so knowledgeable) rang with the blood results I explained the leg situation and she checked the records and said that was also the leg they took bloods from the day before too and it's probably just been injured by being manhandled two days running and to keep an eye but it should be fine.
> 
> Cadwell seems much better in himself. He's moving in and out of his basking spot. Eating (just his faves so far) but eating daily. He's even had an escape attempt or two. He's pooped and urated a couple of times. And he's putting some weight on that bad leg now. He's very slow but he is on the mend.
> 
> ...


That is such good news!! CONGRATS!!


----------



## No1much (Mar 30, 2021)

maggie3fan said:


> Think about this. Instead of adding on to that thread and making it longer you can make different threads (like this one) only different, 1.white blood count another thread Cadwell is eating...another thread cat scan...now I am just making this up, but what I am trying to say, make more threads shorter, and more people will read it. When It gets too long nobody reads all of it...just sayin for a friend


Hey thanks for the advice. I did do that initially but the threads were combined by admins and I was advised to keep things in one place since all the issues were connected to one illness. I'm just keeping the thread updated in case someone experiencing similar issues finds it useful somehow. I'm not really worried if most people don't read it as long as someone who the information is helpful to does. Sorry I didn't see this earlier I didn't get a notification.


----------



## No1much (Mar 30, 2021)

Another update for anyone interested. Cadwell has shown further improvement. His eating is still off but I'm not sure if he's just become reliant on my hand feeding him because he tends to wait for me to come home. His front leg is healed. His back leg still has a slight drag on it though. That red "rash" on his chest has cleared up in the last week and he is incredibly active. Like almost annoyingly so haha. 
But in all seriousness I'm relieved. 

Unless there are serious developments this will probably be the last update as it's probably becoming annoying ?

Attached is a pic of his plastron today (sans rash) and a lil gif of him loving bum scratches also today.


----------



## Krista S (Mar 30, 2021)

I’m so glad to hear Cadwell‘s health is still headed in the right direction. Your updates aren’t annoying at all. It’s helpful for other members to read about and will give them hope if they’re in the same situation. This thread will be helpful to others for years to come.


----------



## KarenSoCal (Mar 30, 2021)

This is wonderful news! We'd like to see updates on Cadwell! We always want to know our extended tort family is doing well. After all, that's why we're here!

He certainly has mastered the scratch dance!


----------



## Jan A (Mar 30, 2021)

KarenSoCal said:


> This is wonderful news! We'd like to see updates on Cadwell! We always want to know our extended tort family is doing well. After all, that's why we're here!
> 
> He certainly has mastered the scratch dance!


We really do love photos & videos!! It's so good that Cadwell is better!!


----------



## Maggie3fan (Mar 31, 2021)

The updates are NOT annoying, they show a success story. Please keep us updated


----------



## No1much (May 10, 2021)

Okay definitely the last update ?

This week Cadwell has started eating "normally" and has been super active (actually driving me crazy ?). 
Until this point he has been picking at certain foods, usually just his favorites but this week he has been demolishing everything in his path. In the past he'd have good days and bad days but he's consistently had good days for the last couple of weeks and has got his strength back up enough to try and parkour up everything. 

No sign of a rash or a limp or any Ill effects from being poorly. 

It's been 10 long weeks and 100s of pounds in vets bills but I would only consider him fully recovered this week. 

As before I'm just updating for the people who may have a similar situation so they know just how long it takes for their tort to fully recover. 

Thank you everyone for the advice.


----------



## Maggie3fan (May 10, 2021)

No1much said:


> Hey thanks for the advice. I did do that initially but the threads were combined by admins and I was advised to keep things in one place since all the issues were connected to one illness. I'm just keeping the thread updated in case someone experiencing similar issues finds it useful somehow. I'm not really worried if most people don't read it as long as someone who the information is helpful to does. Sorry I didn't see this earlier I didn't get a notification.


I would hope you didn't get a notification about me...there's much more interesting reading. Yeah, those moderators!!! However, that said, people who have commented on your post and given you advice about your tort DO want to see updates


----------



## Maggie3fan (May 10, 2021)

No1much said:


> Okay definitely the last update ?
> 
> This week Cadwell has started eating "normally" and has been super active (actually driving me crazy ?).
> Until this point he has been picking at certain foods, usually just his favorites but this week he has been demolishing everything in his path. In the past he'd have good days and bad days but he's consistently had good days for the last couple of weeks and has got his strength back up enough to try and parkour up everything.
> ...


I'd like to say one more thing...think about this, you can't just use us and leave. I have been on this forum for...hey...MODERATORS...no wonder people think I don't know squat...I have been here since 2008 not 2018... fix it!
Anyway, don't stop posting, I take pictures of my animals and write about them and post'em. These members know more about me and my animals than they want to...lol That's a lot more fun than posting about him being sick...this is Mary Knobbins, she's a rescue age unknown...


----------



## Jan A (May 10, 2021)

maggie3fan said:


> I'd like to say one more thing...think about this, you can't just use us and leave. I have been on this forum for...hey...MODERATORS...no wonder people think I don't know squat...I have been here since 2008 not 2018... fix it!
> Anyway, don't stop posting, I take pictures of my animals and write about them and post'em. These members know more about me and my animals than they want to...lol That's a lot more fun than posting about him being sick...this is Mary Knobbins, she's a rescue age unknown...
> View attachment 324868


Mary Knobbins can't come to the phone right now. She's a little hung up!


----------



## KarenSoCal (May 10, 2021)

No1much said:


> Okay definitely the last update ?
> 
> In the past he'd have good days and bad days but he's consistently had good days for the last couple of weeks and has got his strength back up enough to try and parkour up everything.


Somehow parkour is to Cadwell as bobsledding is to the Jamaican team! LOL!

What a great mind's eye image! Love it!


----------



## Maggie3fan (May 11, 2021)

Jan A said:


> Mary Knobbins can't come to the phone right now. She's a little hung up!


lolololololololololol


----------

