# what moral . . .



## mark1 (Jul 11, 2019)

what moral entitlements do animals deserve , if any ?

are there any reputable animal rights groups ?????? individuals ????

do you think an animal can be psychologically abused ?

i'd like to hear peta horror stories , not anecdotal , factual ……..

I did misrepresent a fact in the last peta thread , i'd like to correct it …….I said you'd be as delusional as any of them extremist if you think they have the ability end the meat industry , turn people into vegetarians , stop folks from having pets , and put an end to domestic animals , we've had domestic animals for near 30 centuries ……………. well I meant 30 millenia , we've been keeping animals and using dogs since we were animals ourselves ………..and peta represent something like 0.00077% of the population



> There are a lot of crooked people in the entertainment industry that will try to hire anyone to save a buck. That is how disreputable people get hired and make the rest of us look bad.



isn't that what I said ?????????

there may be a legal question as to whether the producers are covered under AWA , but there is none in regard to the animal company providing the animals …..

According to the United States Department of Agriculture (“USDA”), the use of animals in promotions and in film is subject to AWA requirements
Likewise, the Secretary of Agriculture included “animal acts” within the compass of the AWA.



my ignorance ? my opinion on this is about as ignorant as me saying jeffrey dhamer was a murderer , I didn't see him kill anybody , I just seen the evidence from folks who did ……….some names , yost , Amazing Animal Productions ……steve martin’s Working Wildlife ….karl mitchell’s Big Cat Encounters ………...randy miller’s Predators in Action ……..troy hyde ,Animals of Montana …….. bhagavan antle , T.I.G.E.R.S ……… there are more animal cruelty indictments and allegations in the animal entertainment industry than anyone would have the time to look into ...…….it's not exactly a secret what has gone on in the animal entertainment industry in the past and still today , or any industry profiting off of animals …….. but especially entertainment , lots of it they filmed themselves …….


folks should read Pat Derby's book "the lady and her tiger " , she was a "Hollywood animal trainer"
….....she was a co-founder of PAWS , "performing animal welfare society" , it's a rescue for animals used , abused and dumped from mostly the entertainment industry …….those apes live 40-50yrs …….
 


folks that actually are rescuing apes from the entertainment industry say it cost on average $20,000-$22,000 per year to keep a chimp , if that chimp lives 40yrs , that's near a million dollars for an animal that is not making any money …….. which is why a lot of "sanctuaries"/rescues are scams ..……. I recall one "sanctuary" getting busted for not having records of where their tigers were going ……..

the aha , not to be confused with the humane society ,wouldn't exist today without the film and movie industry , the movie industry pays them millions of dollars each year ……….. here's what a couple folks who worked in the animal entertainment industry and then worked to rescue the animals of that industry had to say about aha oversight ,


> "In 1984, Pat and I started PAWS to fill a void. There was (and still is) a disclaimer used at the end of movie credits that said something to the effect of "no animals were harmed in the making of this movie." That message meant little in 1984, and it means little now. "





> "The Hollywood office of AHA is nothing more than a public relations firm for Hollywood animal trainers and the studios," said Pat Derby, head of the Performing Animal Welfare Society in Northern California.



the aha



> The AHA filed a lawsuit last month seeking to prevent the Los Angeles Times from publishing this article because it might include information from the confidential report, a document written by the AHA's law firm. On Jan. 25, Superior Court Judge Dzintra I. Janavs denied the group's motion.





> The association Web site gave a "believed acceptable" rating to Walt Disney's 1999 action flick "The 13th Warrior," even though a horse had to be destroyed after a wire used in one scene sliced through the animal's tendons and an artery. The film did not receive the AHA's on-screen endorsement. "The leg was . . . just like a plate of chopped liver," said Dorothy Sabey, a Canadian humane official who monitored the filming for the AHA. "It was horrible."





> The "no animals were harmed" seal appeared on New Line Cinema's "Simpatico," despite the death of an old bay quarter horse that ruptured a ligament and staggered to the ground during filming at the Los Alamitos racetrack. The AHA said it was unaware that the film carried its approval.






> It is unknown how many animals are injured or killed each year on movie sets, because the AHA doesn't keep track.





> Since the early '80s, the major studios have directly paid for the AHA film unit's budget. Concerned about the appearance of improper influence, film companies changed the arrangement in 1993 by depositing money into a fund overseen jointly by producers and the Screen Actors Guild. This fund now doles out about $1.5 million a year to the AHA.




*"A Dogs Way Home"*



> Shelby's owners sued PETA for defamation in February, claiming the organization went on a smear campaign against Paws alleging it had racked up citations under the AWA .
> 
> Paws claimed PETA was wrong and was lying, but now the company's officially walked it back and has asked the court to dismiss the case.
> 
> ...






the Canadian guy with the tiger was the guy who owned the tiger in the "life of pi" he wasn't prosecuted because he died .…… listen to his rebuttal on youtube , he's ridiculously stupid …….. he's going to tell you the tiger is indifferent to the whip , makes you want to ask , then why do you got it ???? been there done crap like that , I know exactly what i'm looking at right there…….. he goes on to tell you when the tiger goes belly up he's defying you , and is dumb enough to throw in "like your dogs do" ………….. this is a Hollywood animal trainer , a well known one ???????

i'm sure the dog wasn't "harmed" , I never thought he was physically harmed ……. the guy that forced him in the water , for sure clueless …… if you entertain the thought that that would be a method to teach a dog to do something , and like what they're doing , you too are clueless … when he gave up at the wall and went under , i'd think that was an exceptional teaching tool , just brilliant !!!!!!! I've gotten more dogs than I could begin to remember over things they feared , for real and permanently , not just tolerate it , and I guarantee you force doesn't work , it's counterproductive , i'd think a beginner would now that ?????? you don't override fear with terror , you do it with distractions , portions and familiarity , it's freaking simple ……. i'm pretty sure dogs think in images , they are flashback acute , it's amazing how long they can recall a negative consequence …….. I guess peta was the only ones there with a camera , did peta film the final scene for the movie …………..


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## ascott (Jul 17, 2019)

mark1 said:


> what moral entitlements do animals deserve , if any ?
> 
> are there any reputable animal rights groups ?????? individuals ????
> 
> ...




Um, are you serious here? Don't take that the wrong way and all, but exactly what is your goal here? I am truly bewildered. Oh and


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## TammyJ (Jul 17, 2019)

ascott said:


> Um, are you serious here? Don't take that the wrong way and all, but exactly what is your goal here? I am truly bewildered. Oh and


Yes......I kind of don't understand myself.......? It seems to be coming off of something else or is a continuation of a previous discussion or argument?


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## Chubbs the tegu (Jul 17, 2019)

Idk.. but i like the movie “A dogs way home”


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## mark1 (Jul 17, 2019)

quite …..

it is a reply to the locked "what do you think of peta thread" ……….. i'd assume you asked because you wanted an answer ??? how about answering mine , so I can follow your logic on animal rights advocates ?


i'd be interested in being shown the logic behind someone with the viewpoint that animals are entitled to humane treatment , and animal rights activist are a detriment to that end ??????

the changes in the treatment of animals over the years in animal industries is obvious , isn't it ???? were the changes needed ?????? how did they happen ??????

as far as feeling animals have no right to humane treatment , that is a personal moral decision that no one can argue with …….. there are plenty of folks in all walks of life who would swerve their car to hit a cat , turtle or small animal , and morally have no issue with it .....

I've known very nice people who viewed their dogs as tools , failure to perform meant a bullet to the head or a cut throat ........ a weak pup , a bucket of water ...... can humane treatment of animals be left to individual discretion ??????


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## ZEROPILOT (Jul 17, 2019)

mark1 said:


> quite …..
> 
> it is a reply to the locked "what do you think of peta thread" ……….. i'd assume you asked because you wanted an answer ??? how about answering mine , so I can follow your logic on animal rights advocates ?
> 
> ...


It seems that humane treatment of animals is often based on what part of the world we live in and the roles that those animals play in our culture.
The rules are made by the majority and only taken serious by those that feel the same way. Completely nonsensical to others with less compassion either from ignorance or by a cultural thing.
Here in America it seems that we have a majority rules situation. Good enough for most of us. We hold pets as being almost human at times.
I care more about my dog than I do for most humans....Even blood related. But I'm aware that dogs are viewed as food elsewhere or as useful only as security animals, etc. And other animals like tortoises are sold in some countries as disposable children's toys, etc.
As far as PETA. I have no real experiences or thoughts.


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## Tortoise MasterMan (Dec 17, 2019)

If you needed to sell animals for food, you would eventually not care as much about them. So I guess your devotion to humane stuff depends on your cercumstances.


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