# Desert tortoise busy-should I dig him out



## Razan (Mar 24, 2015)

Last year he emerged on March 5th. This year the dirt piles tell me he is busy but he has not come out yet. I am worried about him.


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## Razan (Mar 24, 2015)

This is the top half of a dog house buried in the hillside for the desert tortoise. He hibernates here but has not come out yet. The pile of dirt covering the entrance completely appeared the first week of March. I have since removed some of the entry dirt so he can see daylight if he is near the entrance, but he has not been seen at all. Should I get busy and dig him out?


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## Razan (Mar 24, 2015)

Just so you can see he is DT not Sulcata. This is a 2014 photo. Should we dig?


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## tortdad (Mar 25, 2015)

I have no clue, just wanted to bump your thread back to the top so someone with experience with this can offer some help.


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## bouaboua (Mar 25, 2015)

If the weather and temperature are suitable for him to come out, I will dig him out and keep him warm and hydrated.


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## Yvonne G (Mar 25, 2015)

I don't ever interfere with my tortoises while they're hibernating. The pile of dirt means he's digging further into the hill side. It sounds like he's awake, but not yet ready to meet the world. I would move the dirt away from the entrance and just wait for him.


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## Razan (Mar 25, 2015)

Thank you ! That sounds like the best thing to do. It is good to know there is nothing to panic about immediately. This week it should go up to 80 maybe 90 so lets hope he finds that to be inviting enough to come out.


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## ascott (Mar 25, 2015)

Razan said:


> This is the top half of a dog house buried in the hillside for the desert tortoise. He hibernates here but has not come out yet. The pile of dirt covering the entrance completely appeared the first week of March. I have since removed some of the entry dirt so he can see daylight if he is near the entrance, but he has not been seen at all. Should I get busy and dig him out?




That is gopher back fill.....I would get down there and slowly remove the dirt and do it with a hand shovel....I know what picture shows...when the CDT renovates its burrow, the apron of the entrance is always cleared as they dig from within....in other words, they dig a bit, then clear that dirt out and push it to the outer edges of the apron....then continue to do so until there is a noticeable berm around the half moon....what you are seeing is a tortoise that began brumation and then their whole was hijacked by gopher...who back filled the half dome as they remodeled the burrow for their liking....

That tortoise needs to be rescued.


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## Razan (Mar 26, 2015)

YIPES! Alright I will go get him. This makes sense too since it has been 85+, plenty warm enough, and last year he came out on March 5th. There is lots of gopher activity all over the place including his area and it's surroundings. I'm going in.


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## ascott (Mar 26, 2015)

Razan said:


> Last year he emerged on March 5th. This year the dirt piles tell me he is busy but he has not come out yet. I am worried about him.




I see in your avatar what appears to be a picture of a sulcata....is this the tortoise we are talking about is it???


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## ascott (Mar 26, 2015)

Razan said:


> Just so you can see he is DT not Sulcata. This is a 2014 photo. Should we dig?




oh so....you have two different species of tortoise in your care...Sulcata and also CDT? I clearly see here the pic of a CDT and your avatar shows a Sulcata....so apology for my last posting asking...


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## ascott (Mar 26, 2015)

ascott said:


> That is gopher back fill.....I would get down there and slowly remove the dirt and do it with a hand shovel....I know what picture shows...when the CDT renovates its burrow, the apron of the entrance is always cleared as they dig from within....in other words, they dig a bit, then clear that dirt out and push it to the outer edges of the apron....then continue to do so until there is a noticeable berm around the half moon....what you are seeing is a tortoise that began brumation and then their _*whole *_was hijacked by gopher...who back filled the half dome as they remodeled the burrow for their liking....
> 
> That tortoise needs to be rescued.




Should have been "hole"...auto correct is so annoying some days


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## taza (Mar 27, 2015)

Did you get him out alright?


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## BeeBee*BeeLeaves (Mar 28, 2015)

Me, too. Suspense. 
Is he out of gopher bondage? Naughty little gopher, trapping the gopherus!


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## Razan (Mar 28, 2015)

taza said:


> Did you get him out alright?



He is not out yet. Last night I dug and dug, shoveling and raking out the entire dog house. No sign of him. My husband did some digging this morning and thinks he may be there in the middle. Will continue this evening and keep you posted.


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## BeeBee*BeeLeaves (Mar 28, 2015)

And yell, "Come out, come out wherever you are!" Must.Find.Tortoise.
I wonder if the gopher activity out front scared him into going in even further?


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## Team Gomberg (Mar 28, 2015)

BeeBee*BeeLeaves said:


> I wonder if the gopher activity out front scared him into going in even further?



Interesting point.... I wonder..?


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## Razan (Mar 28, 2015)

SUCCESS !!!

It wasn't easy. We excavated as much as possible finding no evidence of tortoise or a tunnel in there. This gave us no option but to dig out the entirety the dog house from the hillside. After removing the whole doghouse and shoveling and raking all loose dirt away, things were looking pretty bleak. We dug up a gopher skull. That was a little disheartening seeing as things are dying here. It did not look promising at all of finding him alive. There was no visible tunnel anywhere. Nothing to do but dig more, and more, and keep going farther back. Finally the dirt seemed to loosen and those gorgeous legs eventually appeared. When the toes got moving and we could see he is alive was such a thrilling moment ! 

He peeped out took a few steps and seemed to smile (ok maybe that's my imagination). He seemed relieved even though he looked like a walking mound of dirt. So wonderful to see that walking mound of dirt! It was just past sunset so he looked around thinking why the h did you wake me up at bedtime. He decided to just stay there. We left him with food and water for when he is ready. We will bring more in the morning in case the rabbits and gophers eat it all tonight.


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## ascott (Mar 28, 2015)

Razan said:


> SUCCESS !!!
> 
> It wasn't easy. We excavated as much as possible finding no evidence of tortoise or a tunnel in there. This gave us no option but to dig out the entirety the dog house from the hillside. After removing the whole doghouse and shoveling and raking all loose dirt away, things were looking pretty bleak. We dug up a gopher skull. That was a little disheartening seeing as things are dying here. It did not look promising at all of finding him alive. There was no visible tunnel anywhere. Nothing to do but dig more, and more, and keep going farther back. Finally the dirt seemed to loosen and those gorgeous legs eventually appeared. When the toes got moving and we could see he is alive was such a thrilling moment !
> 
> He peeped out took a few steps and seemed to smile (ok maybe that's my imagination). He seemed relieved even though he looked like a walking mound of dirt. So wonderful to see that walking mound of dirt! It was just past sunset so he looked around thinking why the h did you wake me up at bedtime. He decided to just stay there. We left him with food and water for when he is ready. We will bring more in the morning in case the rabbits and gophers eat it all tonight.




Awesome for sure ...and I completely know that feeling of locating a live tortoise in the mound..Perhaps allow your cat to lurk about the tortoise enclosure to find a gopher or two and let the cat eat em(the gophers that is).....as long as you don't poison bait the gophers the cat will be aok and they will rid the area quickly....otherwise, you will want a plan to disturb their holes each and every day....the goal is to make the area as undesirable as possible to the gopher....good luck with your rebuild....it would be good if your tort constructed their own naturally dug burrow--does not seem to have the same desire to the gophers as our hand made set ups....just my observation is all.


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## BeeBee*BeeLeaves (Mar 29, 2015)

Hurray!!! Oh wow, I know how that must have felt, not knowing if he was there, where? If he was still alive. Panic.
Yay! What a relief is a good thing! Phew.


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## Yvonne G (Mar 29, 2015)

this is such good news. It's great that Ascott understood what was going on from looking at the picture. There's no doubt in my mind that the tortoise would have died if you hadn't intervened!


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## Razan (Mar 29, 2015)

ascott said:


> Awesome for sure ...and I completely know that feeling of locating a live tortoise in the mound..Perhaps allow your cat to lurk about the tortoise enclosure to find a gopher or two and let the cat eat em(the gophers that is).....as long as you don't poison bait the gophers the cat will be aok and they will rid the area quickly....otherwise, you will want a plan to disturb their holes each and every day....the goal is to make the area as undesirable as possible to the gopher....good luck with your rebuild....it would be good if your tort constructed their own naturally dug burrow--does not seem to have the same desire to the gophers as our hand made set ups....just my observation is all.



Thank you for the previous and most current advise. In view of the ongoing gopher problems we adopted 2 kittens last August who are now cats. They are intended to roam the lower orchard freely and hopefully deter gopher population. They go out every morning for a few hours. They usually come in about 2PM. At this moment they are in the living room with us. Hmmmm. They are not on full-time gopher duty yet.


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## Razan (Mar 29, 2015)

Yvonne G said:


> this is such good news. It's great that Ascott understood what was going on from looking at the picture. There's no doubt in my mind that the tortoise would have died if you hadn't intervened!




Finding him so deep and with no available exit that could be seen, I must agree with you. Poor guy. Just waiting ever so patiently. Such a joy to see him !


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## Ariza (Mar 29, 2015)

Congrats on finding your tort and alive, what a relief! I am glad I don't have gopher problems in my backyard.


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## Carol S (Mar 29, 2015)

I'm glad you found him and that he is okay.


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## BeeBee*BeeLeaves (Mar 29, 2015)

Some people say this works great. Some not so much ...
Planting gopher purge in the perimeters, corners might help. To keep them off your property.
You do not want it anywhere near where the tortoise, or any other animal might munch on it, as it is toxic.
My understanding is that it has a sap that gophers do not like the smell of, so they stay away. And if they gnaw on it, it is, again, toxic. 
It is found in the herb section in the nursery if you want to give it a go. Just be very aware of the ickies of planting it in the right spots.
Also, quick reminder, be sure to soak your tortoise. If the gopher scared him, he may have voided his bladder in the burrow.
So happy you found and freed him! Right.On.Angela. Great call! : )


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## Razan (Mar 29, 2015)

Thank you for the advise of "to be sure and soak him". Haven't done that, ever. When he arrived 2 years ago I was not getting the much needed good advise that this forum provides.

He is out, happy, dirty and hungry.


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## gingerbee (Mar 29, 2015)

Wow great news so glad you got him out!!!


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## kathyth (Mar 30, 2015)

This is great news! Glad you dug him up. He definitely needed to be saved!


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## Arnold_rules (Mar 30, 2015)

Razan said:


> Thank you for the advise of "to be sure and soak him". Haven't done that, ever. When he arrived 2 years ago I was not getting the much needed good advise that this forum provides.
> 
> He is out, happy, dirty and hungry.


 Give him as much food as he wants, his front legs look a little thin, so he might not have stored up enough for brumination. Nothing to worry about, just let him eat to pack on some pounds.


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## Razan (Mar 30, 2015)

Thanks for the info. Advise is much appreciated. Just printed a list of DT diet suggestions. Want those little legs to get nice and pudgy again.


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## BeeBee*BeeLeaves (Mar 31, 2015)

Look up "Native Plants for Desert Tortoises" and a nice brochure from Arizona comes up on PDF.

Great that he is eating. But hydration, first and foremost, so do give him his warm soaks. To flush out the hibernation stuff, toxins and such.
If the white is toothpasty, you are good. If it comes out gritty, dehydrated. Just stuff to remember.
There is an icky condition called "post hibernation anorexia" which is a whole different topic to talk about on another thread.
Researchers say that hydration first over food for that condition, is best. 
But your CDT seems to be no worse for the gopher took me hostage wear and tear! Yay!


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## LoriS (Mar 31, 2015)

What a beauty!


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## Razan (Mar 31, 2015)

BeeBee*BeeLeaves said:


> Look up "Native Plants for Desert Tortoises" and a nice brochure from Arizona comes up on PDF.
> 
> Great that he is eating. But hydration, first and foremost, so do give him his warm soaks. To flush out the hibernation stuff, toxins and such.
> If the white is toothpasty, you are good. If it comes out gritty, dehydrated. Just stuff to remember.
> ...



Thanks a bunch for more advise. I wasn't sure about soaking. Leaving shallow water out seems like it is too cold for him in the mornings when he is first coming out and is quite active. Bringing warmish water to him sounds good. Should I force him into soaking or just let him go in if he wants to?


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## BeeBee*BeeLeaves (Mar 31, 2015)

I am a tough love kinda girl. I use a garden trug with high walls. Baby warm water. This is where the temperature gun/gauge comes in handy.
I think the best temp is 85-87 degrees. I place it half shade, half sun while I am in the garden, semi-supervising. And for an hour. Give or take.
My fear after hibernation stems from when I was young and a neighbor losing her desert tortoise to what I now think is that post hibernation anorexia.
The end of brumation is always a tense time for me even though I am sure I did things right, I still have anxiety. I remember my neighbor's scream. : (
If he voids early on, just change his water and back in he goes. I also add bird vitamins after the first week up/
I know that the experts say to use only when sick. But I figure a little extra boost ...


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## Razan (Apr 1, 2015)

Thanks for specific's on your information. This is helpful.


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## ascott (Apr 1, 2015)

Razan said:


> Thanks for the info. Advise is much appreciated. Just printed a list of DT diet suggestions. Want those little legs to get nice and pudgy again.



Usually here when they come out....I flood the guys with head after head of romaine lettuce (organic) and this appears to aid in getting them hydrated from the inside out...as well as it is a fav food of theirs and so they instantly become magicians....now you see it now you don't which usually equals a stuffed tortoise laid out in the sun for some time after the magic show....you will also see where they gorge the head down...that as their body takes in the new...they release the old and keep on stuffing in all that is offered....and this is very important to offer for the month or so after they wake up...as they will not readily take it in as the summer really sets in...and, he is a cutie for sure.... I am offer the heads of lettuce to each of the men folk here and then the rest of the day they will pop in and out of their hides (heat permitting) to munch on the weeds growing in their yards...

Here is a good site for some of the easy to grow weeds along with some natives that one would observe in their natural wild areas along with some of those that will do well in other places;

http://www.desertseedstore.com/category/Tortoise-Forage-Seed-Mixes-Edibles-76


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## Razan (Apr 1, 2015)

ascott said:


> Usually here when they come out....I flood the guys with head after head of romaine lettuce (organic) and this appears to aid in getting them hydrated from the inside out...as well as it is a fav food of theirs and so they instantly become magicians....now you see it now you don't which usually equals a stuffed tortoise laid out in the sun for some time after the magic show....you will also see where they gorge the head down...that as their body takes in the new...they release the old and keep on stuffing in all that is offered....and this is very important to offer for the month or so after they wake up...as they will not readily take it in as the summer really sets in...and, he is a cutie for sure.... I am offer the heads of lettuce to each of the men folk here and then the rest of the day they will pop in and out of their hides (heat permitting) to munch on the weeds growing in their yards...
> 
> Here is a good site for some of the easy to grow weeds along with some natives that one would observe in their natural wild areas along with some of those that will do well in other places;
> 
> http://www.desertseedstore.com/category/Tortoise-Forage-Seed-Mixes-Edibles-76




Very helpful information. Thanks for the desertseedstore suggestion too. Most of my life has been trying to eradicate weeds, not grow them. Now I am looking forward to growing more weeds for a tortoise. At least growing weeds is easier than pulling them. Anything for a happy tortoise.


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## TigsMom (Apr 3, 2015)

I would try to create a burrow that prevents cave in's just so he doesn't get buried alive again. I built new burrows last year here in Arizona, and they are working out even better than I'd imagined. Here's the link to the pics and details of how I built them. You might want to try something similar. http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/outdoor-enclosure-for-desert-tort.89446/


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## Razan (Apr 3, 2015)

TigsMom said:


> I would try to create a burrow that prevents cave in's just so he doesn't get buried alive again. I built new burrows last year here in Arizona, and they are working out even better than I'd imagined. Here's the link to the pics and details of how I built them. You might want to try something similar. http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/outdoor-enclosure-for-desert-tort.89446/[/QUOT
> 
> "Herbie" the DT will certainly have a new burrow.
> Thanks for pictures and explanations of your burrow. Great set up. Clearly you have no hesitation about taking on a heavy project.


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