# Mazuri questions



## Gillian M (Sep 14, 2015)

What sort of problems are you talking about as far as Mazuri is concerned? I *FOUGHT *like mad to get it as it is not available here, and *Ed *was kind enough to send it to me. I am getting Oli used to it. I'd appreciate a quick answer, thanks.


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## teresaf (Sep 14, 2015)

Gillian Moore said:


> What sort of problems are you talking about as far as Mazuri is concerned? I *FOUGHT *like mad to get it as it is not available here, and *Ed *was kind enough to send it to me. I am getting Oli used to it. I'd appreciate a quick answer, thanks.



The Mazuri That everyone on this site raves about is the kind that I pictured and doesn't have LS as part of the name. Its nugget shaped like dog food.

Just the LS type is awful in my opinion. It's probably good for them but if they won't eat it then its not . A FEW tortoises have been known to eat it but MOST won't touch it. Mine backed away. I think LS stands for low starch so its probably just yucky like any diet food. Lol. It's pellet shaped like rabbit food and hard to soften.


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## Gillian M (Sep 14, 2015)

teresaf said:


> The Mazuri That everyone on this site raves about is the kind that I pictured and doesn't have LS as part of the name. Its nugget shaped like dog food.
> 
> Just the LS type is awful in my opinion. It's probably good for them but if they won't eat it then its not . A FEW tortoises have been known to eat it but MOST won't touch it. Mine backed away. I think LS stands for low starch so its probably just yucky like any diet food. Lol. It's pellet shaped like rabbit food and hard to soften.


Thanks v much your prompt reply as well as your explanation.

I did have some trouble in feeding Oli mazuri. However, the first thing that crossed my mind was the fact that he is NOT USED TO IT: the poor thing had been eating lettuce, tomatoes and cooked carrots for more that FOUR YEARS!


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## teresaf (Sep 14, 2015)

Gillian Moore said:


> Thanks v much your prompt reply as well as your explanation.
> 
> I did have some trouble in feeding Oli mazuri. However, the first thing that crossed my mind was the fact that he is NOT USED TO IT: the poor thing had been eating lettuce, tomatoes and cooked carrots for more that FOUR YEARS!



Which kind are you feeding him? Most torts I've heard of loved the stuff as much as cactus! Good that he has you now to introduce him too the GOOD stuff.


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## Gillian M (Sep 15, 2015)

teresaf said:


> Which kind are you feeding him? Most torts I've heard of loved the stuff as much as cactus! Good that he has you now to introduce him too the GOOD stuff.


Hi. Am feeding Oli the mazuri that come in small 'balls' not the pellets. Does it make any difference?


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## teresaf (Sep 15, 2015)

Gillian Moore said:


> Hi. Am feeding Oli the mazuri that come in small 'balls' not the pellets. Does it make any difference?


 yep there's a difference the pellets I would understand if He didn't eat but you got the good stuff


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## ZEROPILOT (Sep 15, 2015)

Yes. it's the type that most tortoises grow to love. (Not the type L.S.)


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## MPRC (Sep 15, 2015)

I found that soaking it in fruit juice makes my picky eater go nuts for it. I use pretty much whatever is available, though he really likes it soaked with blackberry juice because it makes the nuggets bright red.


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## ALDABRAMAN (Sep 15, 2015)

Gillian Moore said:


> Mazuri // it is not available



~ According to my supplier, there may be a shortage due to a major production plant reorganization!


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## Gillian M (Sep 16, 2015)

teresaf said:


> yep there's a difference the pellets I would understand if He didn't eat but you got the good stuff


You said there is a difference, but didn't say what it is. Appreciate an answer, thanks.


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## Gillian M (Sep 16, 2015)

ALDABRAMAN said:


> ~ According to my supplier, there may be a shortage due to a major production plant reorganization!


You are talking about the USA, right? When I said 'Mazuri is NOT available I meant Jordan, (and probably all the Middle East). There is NO demand on it, due to the fact that torts live in the wild and are NOT the favourite pets here.


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## Alaskamike (Sep 16, 2015)

The difference according to the Mazuri website is - the LS has more fiber. 
I find the LS takes a bit longer soaking to get soft 

But the regular Mazuri gets so soft so fast that it turns to mush. 

Depends on what you are looking for. 
My torts will chow down either one.


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## teresaf (Sep 16, 2015)

Alaskamike said:


> The difference according to the Mazuri website is - the LS has more fiber.
> I find the LS takes a bit longer soaking to get soft
> 
> But the regular Mazuri gets so soft so fast that it turns to mush.
> ...


Yes. The pellets(Mazuri LS) SOME tortoises will eat but checking reviews you see ALOT of people unhappy because their tortoise won't touch it. It's not just that they don't recognize it as food...it smells bad or something. Like I said both my torts backed away from it and even after I removed the offensive stuff they wouldn't touch the greens they were on. My perspective is if they like the regular nugget shaped Mazuri don't try to force the other (pellet shaped Mazuri LS)on them.


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## teresaf (Sep 16, 2015)

Alaskamike said:


> The difference according to the Mazuri website is - the LS has more fiber.
> I find the LS takes a bit longer soaking to get soft
> 
> But the regular Mazuri gets so soft so fast that it turns to mush.
> ...


Mine like the regular Mazuri mushy even more! Lol and they look adorable with it smeared on their faces


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## teresaf (Sep 16, 2015)

LaDukePhoto said:


> I found that soaking it in fruit juice makes my picky eater go nuts for it. I use pretty much whatever is available, though he really likes it soaked with blackberry juice because it makes the nuggets bright red.


I hadn't thought of that! It might help get a few vitamins they might not get otherwise. Some people put their calci powder in the soaking water


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## Goaliemom11 (Sep 16, 2015)

I've been buying if off Amazon in 7 lb buckets, and it's been at a great price.


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## leno (Sep 18, 2015)

I have tried feeding mazuri Tortoise LS Diet, They kind of avoid the mazuri and go for the veges instead, how could I get them to eat the mazuri as well? I have tried mashing/mixing them up tgt but they are still able to pick the vege away from mazuri.


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## teresaf (Sep 18, 2015)

leno said:


> I have tried feeding mazuri Tortoise LS Diet, They kind of avoid the mazuri and go for the veges instead, how could I get them to eat the mazuri as well? I have tried mashing/mixing them up tgt but they are still able to pick the vege away from mazuri.


Try this Mazuri instead. Torts love it!
*notice it does not have LS on the packaging anywhere and its nuggets instead of pellets.


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## Careym13 (Sep 18, 2015)

I use mazuri LS sometimes. My torts don't love it but if I mix it in with stuff they do like they will still eat some of it. I have better luck with the ZooMed grassland tort food. I only offer it every other week or so, but it might be worth trying if you can get ahold of some.


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## Gillian M (Sep 18, 2015)

teresaf said:


> Try this Mazuri instead. Torts love it!
> *notice it does not have LS on the packaging anywhere and its nuggets instead of pellets.


You mentioned that it is nuggets NOT pellets. I have nuggets (which ED sent me.Am thankful Ed!). But Oli is still not completely used to this diet. How long would it take to get him used to it? Somebody suggested my NOT GIVING HIM ANY OTHER CHOICE, but I cannot do that for one simple reason: the poor thing has been eating Roman lettuce, tomatoes for more than FOUR YEARS. He cannot, I think, be deprived his favourites overnight, can he?

Appreciate suggestions, replies. Thank you.


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## meech008 (Sep 18, 2015)

Gillian Moore said:


> You mentioned that it is nuggets NOT pellets. I have nuggets (which ED sent me.Am thankful Ed!). But Oli is still not completely used to this diet. How long would it take to get him used to it? Somebody suggested my NOT GIVING HIM ANY OTHER CHOICE, but I cannot do that for one simple reason: the poor thing has been eating Roman lettuce, tomatoes for more than FOUR YEARS. He cannot, I think, be deprived his favourites overnight, can he?
> 
> Appreciate suggestions, replies. Thank you.


He can. A lot of people don't like to do it but some people think some torts are stubborn and need the tough love of not having an option


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## Gillian M (Sep 18, 2015)

meech008 said:


> He can. A lot of people don't like to do it but some people think some torts are stubborn and need the tough love of not having an option


Hello Michelle, and thanks a lot your very encouraging words.


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## teresaf (Sep 18, 2015)

Careym13 said:


> I use mazuri LS sometimes. My torts don't love it but if I mix it in with stuff they do like they will still eat some of it. I have better luck with the ZooMed grassland tort food. I only offer it every other week or so, but it might be worth trying if you can get ahold of some.


Yeah, like I said, torts generally aren't fans of the Mazuri LS but the other (Mazuri original) most torts adore.


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## teresaf (Sep 18, 2015)

leno said:


> I have tried feeding mazuri Tortoise LS Diet, They kind of avoid the mazuri and go for the veges instead, how could I get them to eat the mazuri as well? I have tried mashing/mixing them up tgt but they are still able to pick the vege away from mazuri.


That's what were saying... tortoises don't like that stuff. Throw it away. Get the original Mazuri. it's shaped like dog food (round balls). Most tortoises love it and you can add the calcium to the soaking water when you soften them... the packaging looks similar. here's a picture of what the packaging looks like. No 'LS'. Just stay away from the LS type.


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## teresaf (Sep 18, 2015)

Gillian Moore said:


> You mentioned that it is nuggets NOT pellets. I have nuggets (which ED sent me.Am thankful Ed!). But Oli is still not completely used to this diet. How long would it take to get him used to it? Somebody suggested my NOT GIVING HIM ANY OTHER CHOICE, but I cannot do that for one simple reason: the poor thing has been eating Roman lettuce, tomatoes for more than FOUR YEARS. He cannot, I think, be deprived his favourites overnight, can he?
> 
> Appreciate suggestions, replies. Thank you.


in the wild if a specific food became unavailable he would have to eat something different to fill his belly. you could do a fun experiment. you could put 5 plates in His enclosure, separate from each other by a couple inches, each with different types of Greens for him to try. replace with the same food everyday for a week and see which ones he eats the most.

as for the Mazuri, I think it would be Best to keep offering that daily until he starts eating it more regularly then cut back to weekly or every couple days... it has nutrients and vitamins in it that he can't possibly get from tomatoes and romaine


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## leno (Sep 18, 2015)

teresaf said:


> Try this Mazuri instead. Torts love it!
> *notice it does not have LS on the packaging anywhere and its nuggets instead of pellets.


okay, will try to find if my country has this.


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## teresaf (Sep 18, 2015)

leno said:


> okay, will try to find if my country has this.


You will have alot better luck with that than the stuff that you have. I'm sure. somehow you have gotten LS so the regular Mazuri should be available too. There are people on this forum that may be able to sell you some of their Mazuri.


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## Gillian M (Sep 20, 2015)

teresaf said:


> in the wild if a specific food became unavailable he would have to eat something different to fill his belly. you could do a fun experiment. you could put 5 plates in His enclosure, separate from each other by a couple inches, each with different types of Greens for him to try. replace with the same food everyday for a week and see which ones he eats the most.
> 
> as for the Mazuri, I think it would be Best to keep offering that daily until he starts eating it more regularly then cut back to weekly or every couple days... it has nutrients and vitamins in it that he can't possibly get from tomatoes and romaine


Thanks very much your help. I did apply one thing: am offering Oli mazuri DAILY hoping that he will get used to it sooner or later.


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## teresaf (Sep 20, 2015)

Gillian Moore said:


> Thanks very much your help. I did apply one thing: am offering Oli mazuri DAILY hoping that he will get used to it sooner or later.


 I Wonder if food coloring would hurt him? I was just thinking that soaking the MAzuri in red food coloring water to make it look like a tomato? Maybe ask around about that. I did like the idea of soaking it in a juice they like. Tomatoe juice?


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## meech008 (Sep 21, 2015)

I know one member soaked their Mazuri in beet juice for color


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## domalle (Sep 21, 2015)

Gillian Moore said:


> You mentioned that it is nuggets NOT pellets. I have nuggets (which ED sent me.Am thankful Ed!). But Oli is still not completely used to this diet. How long would it take to get him used to it? Somebody suggested my NOT GIVING HIM ANY OTHER CHOICE, but I cannot do that for one simple reason: the poor thing has been eating Roman lettuce, tomatoes for more than FOUR YEARS. He cannot, I think, be deprived his favourites overnight, can he?
> 
> Appreciate suggestions, replies. Thank you.



Not a fan of artificial diets like Mazuri.
Owners find it convenient and their tortoises find it addictive.
But I suspect the tortoises' cravings have something to do with its high sugar content.
It has a good reputation and is useful for maintenance of large collections of animals.
That's why it was developed for zoos.

But I see no reason for its use for the ordinary keeper or small collections of animals.
It is formulated for strictly herbivorous tortoises and contains Vitamin D3
so should not be used routinely for periods when animals are exposed to natural sunlight.


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## Gillian M (Sep 21, 2015)

domalle said:


> Not a fan of artificial diets like Mazuri.
> Owners find it convenient and their tortoises find it addictive.
> But I suspect the tortoises' cravings have something to do with its high sugar content.
> It has a good reputation and is useful for maintenance of large collections of animals.
> ...


Thanks your help.

OLI gets exposed to a lot of sun, and *HOT *sun. But his diet worried me all the same until I received tort diet from Ed (to whom I am extremely thankful).


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## teresaf (Sep 21, 2015)

domalle said:


> Not a fan of artificial diets like Mazuri.
> Owners find it convenient and their tortoises find it addictive.
> But I suspect the tortoises' cravings have something to do with its high sugar content.
> It has a good reputation and is useful for maintenance of large collections of animals.
> ...


 
You're not one of those VEGANS are you?! Haha...I don't believe anyone here feeds their torts large quantities of Mazuri regularly. The need that I have seen is getting a large variety of nutrients into our torts daily/weekly in times when money for fresh food or the food itself is scarce. I'm in ohio where winters are cold. Any and all suppliments for a healthier tortoise is a big help. I can only grow so much food....They eat sooooo much. Supplimenting their diet with Mazuri can only help in my case....Sure mine get Mazuri year round but not much. Maybe 10% of their overall diet tops!


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## domalle (Sep 21, 2015)

Gillian Moore said:


> Thanks your help.
> 
> OLI gets exposed to a lot of sun, and *HOT *sun. But his diet worried me all the same until I received tort diet from Ed (to whom I am extremely thankful).



Do not recommend use of Mazuri or any artificial foods formulated with Vitamin D3 as an additive 
if your tortoise is exposed to natural sunlight. Like most domestic dog and cat foods, 
Mazuri has Vitamin D3 and will cause overdose in animals subjected to sunlight exposure.


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## domalle (Sep 21, 2015)

teresaf said:


> You're not one of those VEGANS are you?! Haha...I don't believe anyone here feeds their torts large quantities of Mazuri regularly. The need that I have seen is getting a large variety of nutrients into our torts daily/weekly in times when money for fresh food or the food itself is scarce. I'm in ohio where winters are cold. Any and all suppliments for a healthier tortoise is a big help. I can only grow so much food....They eat sooooo much. Supplimenting their diet with Mazuri can only help in my case....Sure mine get Mazuri year round but not much. Maybe 10% of their overall diet tops!



You're on to me, but vegetarian not vegan.


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## ZEROPILOT (Sep 22, 2015)

Sorry to butt in, but for our AMERICAN members, many feed stores sell the Mazuri tortoise formula in big 25 pound bags.
I bought some this weekend and the price has gone up a bit to $36. Still, at a dollar and change per pound, this is the way to buy it!
It makes up no more than 20% of my tortoises diet. usually much less, but I'm in a climate that allows me to grow them food 12 months out of the year.
I mix it with fruit or boiled egg, etc. (Redfoot only)


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## CharlieM (Sep 22, 2015)

I stopped using Mazuri altogether. 
The primary ingredients are GMO soy, corn and wheat.


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## ZEROPILOT (Sep 22, 2015)

CharlieM said:


> I stopped using Mazuri altogether.
> The primary ingredients are GMO soy, corn and wheat.


It is strange that it seems to equal MORE than its contents suggest.
I guess WE are the "long term"testers.
I would like to see how tortoises fed Mazuri often would compare with NON Mazuri eating tortoises at say ten years........
I vary my diet. I'm sure that most of us do.


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## SarahChelonoidis (Sep 22, 2015)

I use Mazuri. I would definitely prefer that it wasn't a soy/corn product, but I do trust that the community has been using it for quite awhile and getting great results with it. I also like that it has well balanced vitamins including d3, because sunlight as well as local food is limited several months a year here.


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## Gillian M (Sep 23, 2015)

domalle said:


> Do not recommend use of Mazuri or any artificial foods formulated with Vitamin D3 as an additive
> if your tortoise is exposed to natural sunlight. Like most domestic dog and cat foods,
> Mazuri has Vitamin D3 and will cause overdose in animals subjected to sunlight exposure.


Thanks a lot your help.


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## Alaskamike (Sep 23, 2015)

Okay. I'm going to beg to differ here on the vit D overdose issue. 

I suppose this COULD be an issue if you fed ONLY Mazuri to your tortoise. But I know of no one doing that. Not even Zoos that use it allot. 

As part of a varied diet I can't see a problem. Vit D overdose is extremely rare and would require a massive amount. 

But like the concerns over GMO produced foods , herbal remedies, vegetarian diets for omnivores , even store bought organic spring mix, it is controversial. 

Like a calcium powder , all things in moderation appear to provide the best overall health. In people as well as our torts. 

I feed my sulcata , leopard, and aldabra some Mazuri several times a week. They free graze most everything else. I have no issues with it and would hate to see people freak out about the remote possibility of d3 overdose without just cause.


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## domalle (Sep 23, 2015)

Alaskamike said:


> Okay. I'm going to beg to differ here on the vit D overdose issue.
> 
> I suppose this COULD be an issue if you fed ONLY Mazuri to your tortoise. But I know of no one doing that. Not even Zoos that use it allot.
> 
> ...



Agreed varied diet and all things in moderation. The moderation rule doesn't apply to meth and heroin though.
Excess D3 is stored in body fat. Effects of overdose are not immediately apparent, develop over time, and are irreversible.
But like most things, it all depends on what level of risk you are willing to undertake with your animals.
This seems an unnecessary one.


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## SteveW (Sep 23, 2015)

domalle said:


> Agreed varied diet and all things in moderation. The moderation rule doesn't apply to meth and heroin though.
> Excess D3 is stored in body fat. Effects of overdose are not immediately apparent, develop over time, and are irreversible.
> But like most things, it all depends on what level of risk you are willing to undertake with your animals.
> This seems an unnecessary one.



You know, insufficient Vit D is also not immediately apparent, develops over time and is irreversible. Also seems to be a lot more common. Supplementation may have elements of risk but given the prevalence of MBD, seems like a necessary one. 
As an aside, if a diet is supplemented appropriately, Vit D biosynthesis (i.e. From UVB) will not cause an overdose.


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## domalle (Sep 23, 2015)

SteveW said:


> You know, insufficient Vit D is also not immediately apparent, develops over time and is irreversible. Also seems to be a lot more common. Supplementation may have elements of risk but given the prevalence of MBD, seems like a necessary one.
> As an aside, if a diet is supplemented appropriately, Vit D biosynthesis (i.e. From UVB) will not cause an overdose.



OK so we are back to "if a diet is supplemented appropriately" and whatever that means to a novice petkeeper.
Routine use of foods that contain D3 when animals are outside in natural sunlight is contraindicated.
Routine use of supplementation is fine if not overdone.
And now we are back to what does 'overdone' mean.
'Overdose of Vitamin D related to cat food ingestion in a red-footed tortoise resulted in fatality
due to generalized mineralization, especially of oviducts and urinary bladder'.
And you would think that an omnivorous species like a redfoot could handle it better than the typical
herbivorous tortoises kept by many on the forum who seem to use the products freely.
But given that outside analysis of these artificial products reveals that few actually contain
the ingredients and/or the percentages claimed on packaging, we are probably arguing in circles.
Not worth the risk.


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## SteveW (Sep 23, 2015)

domalle said:


> OK so we are back to "if a diet is supplemented appropriately" and whatever that means to a novice petkeeper .



Hmmm. According to the label, Mazuri recommends feeding 2-4% of body weight. Given a 1000gr redfoot, that's 30 gr of food. The Vit D is listed at .942 IU/kg or .000942 IU/gr. For the hypothetical redfoot, that's. .02826 IU. For a human, Vit D toxicity is in excess of 10,000 IU. Given a median human weight of say, 80,000 gr, toxicity is seen at a concentration on .111 IU/gr. Or approximate 10x the level experienced by the aforementioned redfoot. Relevant to mention is that 30 grams is about 25 pieces of Mazuri. If that is not a satisfactory margin of safety, go to every other day and it's 1/20 the human toxicity level. Cut the amount in half (which is still a lot) go to three times a week feedings and the toxicity level is conservatively over 50 times higher than being provided. Worth mentioning is that similar toxic levels are noted in the tested mammals as well as birds. 
While this may not be a worthwhile risk for you, I'm sure you can see why some may find it a very reasonable dietary supplement.


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## domalle (Sep 23, 2015)

SteveW said:


> Hmmm. According to the label, Mazuri recommends feeding 2-4% of body weight. Given a 1000gr redfoot, that's 30 gr of food. The Vit D is listed at .942 IU/kg or .000942 IU/gr. For the hypothetical redfoot, that's. .02826 IU. For a human, Vit D toxicity is in excess of 10,000 IU. Given a median human weight of say, 80,000 gr, toxicity is seen at a concentration on .111 IU/gr. Or approximate 10x the level experienced by the aforementioned redfoot. Relevant to mention is that 30 grams is about 25 pieces of Mazuri. If that is not a satisfactory margin of safety, go to every other day and it's 1/20 the human toxicity level. Cut the amount in half (which is still a lot) go to three times a week feedings and the toxicity level is conservatively over 50 times higher than being provided. Worth mentioning is that similar toxic levels are noted in the tested mammals as well as birds.
> While this may not be a worthwhile risk for you, I'm sure you can see why some may find it a very reasonable dietary supplement.



OK despite the snow job, math wizard, and I say this with all good intention and humor, how many people do you think follow directions
with your informed specificity? And I always have to wonder with advocates for this product, do they have any vested interest and
would they divulge it?
I choose not to use it and do not recommend it. Why does that always seem to rile its defenders so?


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## SteveW (Sep 23, 2015)

domalle said:


> OK despite the snow job, math wizard, and I say this with all good intention and humor, how many people do you think follow directions
> with your informed specificity? And I always have to wonder with advocates for this product, do they have any vested interest and
> would they divulge it?
> I choose not to use it and do not recommend it. Why does that always seem to rile its defenders so?



You've got me all wrong. I'm not a math wiz, not an advocate (I hardly ever use it, prefer Zoo med among prepared foods) nor am I riled. If you think the above is a 'snow job', double check my math, I showed my work. 
And no, I'm not making any money here, so no vested interest. If you don't use it or recommend it, more power to you. 
My contention was and is that you were asserting a hazard that neither anecdotal evidence or dose calculations support. Not an attack, just hoping for clarity.


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