# Moringa Olifera



## Seadation (Sep 3, 2013)

Is Moringa safe for Tortoises/Reptiles? It is supposed to be a superfood and very nutritious for humans. Any thoughts?


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## Kapidolo Farms (Sep 5, 2013)

http://www.feedipedia.org/node/12344

for source material about nutritional content.

It looks like it could be a great food source.

Here is an earlier threads on this topic
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/thread-8078.html

Similar and very well tried and true for tortoise feeds are are White Mulberry and 'vitus vinifera' grape vines. These are pretty easy to get in most areas around the world.

Will


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## Kapidolo Farms (Sep 5, 2013)

I spent some time seeking more information about this plant. 

It seems like it ought to be listed as a diet item for tortoises in its native range. I found this interesting anecdote.

_I have moringa. They do well in the sandy Florida soil. They do not care for over watering, nor do they like fertilizer. When they are first starting out, I use rainwater only on the seedlings. It does seem to make a difference with their strength. After they reach about a foot in height, they're basically on their own. Rabbits don't seem to bother them, but strangely, gopher tortoises here are the culprtis I have to protect the younger ones from. But even if chewed to ground, return to light watering with rainwater and the eaten ones return.
Very fast growing. As mentioned, give seedlings a lot of sun to make stem/trunk stronger.
Thankfully, I can leave mine out in ground year round. They do lose some leaves if you begin to fertilize them too much. I just throw some super well rotted compost under their feet each spring and let Mother Nature do the rest._

from http://www.cloudforest.com/cafe/getting-started/moringa-problems-t3324.html


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## Yellow Turtle (Sep 7, 2013)

Interesting, this plant is plenty here in my country and I don't know it's edible for tortoise. I see protein content is quite high though, so looks like it's not going to be main diet for tortoise.


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## Kapidolo Farms (Sep 7, 2013)

Yellow Turtle said:


> Interesting, this plant is plenty here in my country and I don't know it's edible for tortoise. I see protein content is quite high though, so looks like it's not going to be main diet for tortoise.



Much like the concept of raising 'desert' habitat tortoises in a dry enclosure, the misnomer of protein exists.

Yellow Turtle, that protein content on that page I sourced is on a Dry Matter (% DM) basis. So fed green that means it is approximately 9% protein, and that is indeed OK. 

Will


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## Yellow Turtle (Sep 7, 2013)

Will said:


> Yellow Turtle said:
> 
> 
> > Interesting, this plant is plenty here in my country and I don't know it's edible for tortoise. I see protein content is quite high though, so looks like it's not going to be main diet for tortoise.
> ...



Noted Will, but doesn't all nutrition analysis conducted on DM basis? And compares to fresh alfalfa, the protein content is similar, that's why it seems to me it's on the higher side.


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## Kapidolo Farms (Sep 8, 2013)

I am not sure what manufactured diets you have access to there, nor that you would use them should you have access. Many manufactured 'tortoise' diets available here in the US have 9% to 12% protein. So that is a start for a basis to say, no 9% is not on the high side. However the labels on the containers often do not explicitly state if it is % DM or not. 

In another thread http://www.tortoiseforum.org/thread-64528.html I sought out a more detailed content of at least one food, ZooMed grassland pellets. 

The mix and match way to look at the many manners of data presentation is called a 'proximate analysis', not all analyses are in % DM.

In all I find that up to 20% protein works for neonates, when ample water and long fiber are included in the diet. Yolk, at least from chickens is 15% protein, and when we consider that the yolk is absorbed into the gut and feeds into the intestine of hatchling turtles and is their food for the first few week or so, you have a sound basis to consider this amount of protein.

From what I have read and spoken about with reptile nutritionists is that up to 25% is OK for rapidly growing neonates.

So, in short 9% as fed is just fine in my view.

If I had the space, I would already be growing some of these trees, if for no other reason than my own consumption, to try it out. I do on occasion eat mulberry leaves and grape vine leaves, different leaves from different parts of the plant taste different. Some leaves are sinks for nutrients some are source. It seems older source leaves are what the tortoises like best, but that is another topic. 

Will


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## sunshine_hugs (Sep 8, 2013)

So, this might sound crazy, but it also grows in abundance where I live...my family and I all consume it (and on the island here, they use the flowers and seeds as well as the leaves)...but the crazy part is that I've never thought of offering it to my tortoises. 

If it's safe to do so, I think we'll try it out and see what they think.


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## Kapidolo Farms (Sep 8, 2013)

*Re: RE: Moringa Olifera*



sunshine_hugs said:


> So, this might sound crazy, but it also grows in abundance where I live...my family and I all consume it (and on the island here, they use the flowers and seeds as well as the leaves)...but the crazy part is that I've never thought of offering it to my tortoises.
> 
> If it's safe to do so, I think we'll try it out and see what they think.



Cool.

So how do you prepare it for youself and is it "tasty" good?

Will


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## Yvonne G (Sep 8, 2013)

***she silently raises her hand and taps Will on the shoulder...I've just bought three of these off Amazon, and I'm willing to share***


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## BeeBee*BeeLeaves (Sep 8, 2013)

Like minds. Me, too. I ordered 3 about 3 months ago. I saw the tablets at the health food store and started to wonder. Here is some information to share which is why I eventually ordered:

Imagine a tree in your backyard that will meet all your nutritional needs, take care of you medicinally, and purify your water for you. This tree actually exists. For centuries, the natives of northern India and many parts of Africa have known of the many benefits of Moringa oleifera. Its uses are as unique as the names it is known by, such as clarifier tree, horseradish tree and drumstick tree (referring to the large drumstick shaped pods) and in East Africa it is called "mother's best friendâ€. Virtually every part of the tree can be used. Native only to the foothills of the Himalayas, it is now widely cultivated in Africa, Central and South America, Sri Lanka, India, Malaysia and the Philippines. This tree, though little known in the Western world, is nutritional dynamite. There are literally hundreds of uses for this tree.

The immature pods are the most valued and widely used of all the tree parts. The pods are extremely nutritious, containing all the essential amino acids along with many vitamins and other nutrients. The immature pod can be eaten raw or prepared like green peas or green beans, while the mature pods are usually fried and possess a peanut-like flavor. The pods also yield 38 - 40% of non-drying, edible oil known as Ben Oil. This oil is clear, sweet and odorless, and never becomes rancid. Overall, its nutritional value most closely resembles olive oil. The thickened root is used as a substitute for horseradish although this is now discouraged as it contains alkaloids, especially moriginine, and a bacteriocide, spirochin, both of which can prove fatal following ingestion. The leaves are eaten as greens, in salads, in vegetable curries, as pickles and for seasoning. They can be pounded up and used for scrubbing utensils and for cleaning walls. Leaves and young branches are relished by livestock. The Bark can be used for tanning and also yields a coarse fiber. The flowers, which must be cooked, are eaten either mixed with other foods or fried in batter and have been shown to be rich in potassium and calcium.

In developing tropical countries, Moringa trees have been used to combat malnutrition, especially among infants and nursing mothers. Three non-governmental organizations in particular - Trees for Life, Church World Service and Educational Concerns for Hunger Organization - advocate Moringa as â€œnatural nutrition for the tropics.â€ Leaves can be eaten fresh, cooked, or stored as dried powder for many months without refrigeration, and without loss of nutritional value. Moringa is especially promising as a food source in the tropics because the tree is in full leaf at the end of the dry season when other foods are typically scarce. Analyses of the leaf composition have revealed them to have significant quantities of vitamins A, B and C, calcium, iron and protein. According to Optima of Africa, Ltd., a group that has been working with the tree in Tanzania, "25 grams daily of Moringa Leaf Powder will give a child" the following recommended daily allowances:

Protein 42%, Calcium 125%, Magnesium 61%, Potassium 41%, Iron 71%, Vitamin A 272%, and Vitamin C 22%. These numbers are particularly astounding; considering this nutrition is available when other food sources may be scarce.

Scientific research confirms that these humble leaves are a powerhouse of nutritional value. Gram for gram, Moringa leaves contain: SEVEN times the vitamin C in oranges, FOUR times the Calcium in milk, FOUR times the vitamin A in carrots, TWO times the protein in milk and THREE times the Potassium in bananas.

The Moringa tree has great use medicinally both as preventative and treatment. Much of the evidence is anecdotal as there has been little actual scientific research done to support these claims. India's ancient tradition of ayurveda says the leaves of the Moringa tree prevent 300 diseases. One area in which there has been significant scientific research is the reported antibiotic activity of this tree.

This is clearly the area in which the preponderance of evidence - both classical scientific and anecdotal evidence - is overwhelming. The scientific evidence has now been available for over 50 years, although much of it is completely unknown to western scientists. In the late 1940â€™s and early 1950â€™s a team from India identified a compound they called pterygospermin. This group was also able to demonstrate its mode of antimicrobial action in the mid 1950â€™s. Field reports and ecological studies form part of a rich traditional medicine history claiming efficacy of leaf, seed, root, bark, and flowers against a variety of dermal and internal infections. In 1964 other active compounds were isolated and tested in-vitro, and these studies, along with observational studies provide a very plausible mechanism of action for the centuries of claims of efficacy. Unfortunately, because many of the reports of antibiotic efficacy in humans are not supported by placebo controlled, randomized clinical trials, Western medical prejudice leaves the Western world ignorant of Moringaâ€™s antibiotic properties.

Another area of folklore which research supports is in cancer treatment. Moringa species have long been recognized by folk medicine practitioners as having value in the treatment of tumors. Studies examined certain compounds for their cancer preventive potential. Recently two of these compounds were shown to be potent inhibitors of activation of lymphoblastoid (Burkittâ€™s lymphoma) cells. One of these compounds also inhibited tumors in mice bred to be prone to tumors. In another study, Bharali and colleagues examined skin tumor prevention following ingestion of drumstick (Moringa seedpod) extracts. In this mouse model, which included appropriate positive and negative controls, a dramatic reduction in skin tumors was demonstrated. More rigorous study is required in order to achieve a level of proof required for full medical endorsement of Moringa as, in this case, a cancer preventative plant.

After the oil is extracted from the pods, the seed-cake remaining contains the active components for removing turbidity (solid particles) from water. Because bacteria adhere to the solids, this seed-cake also effectively removes bacteria. At the Thyolo Water Treatment Works in Malawi, Africa, two researchers from the University of Leicester, England, have worked on substituting moringa seeds for alum to remove solids in water for drinking. Not only were the tests successful in removing as much solid material as alum, but the seeds used were "purchased from enthusiastic villagers in Nsanje Region in Malawi" (Folkard and Sutherland, 1996. Not only is Moringa oleifera as effective as aluminum sulphate (alum) in removing suspended solids from turbid water, it has a major advantage. Because it can be produced locally, "using Moringa rather than alum would save foreign exchange and generate farm and employment income." The potential for Moringa to create a new market for a community is there, and studies and projects are taking place examining this potential. Use of this natural substance would also remove a source of aluminum contamination.

This tree is truly a â€œmiracleâ€ tree offering hope; nutritionally, medicinally and economically to devastatingly poor 3rd world countries. It has just recently begun being used as a supplement in a juice form and in powdered leaf tablets.


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## Kapidolo Farms (Sep 8, 2013)

Yvonne G said:


> ***she silently raises her hand and taps Will on the shoulder...I've just bought three of these off Amazon, and I'm willing to share***



The two mulberry I have in pots are just no doing well, the hibiscus couldn't be more productive. I get the impression from reading the lit the Moringa do best in full sun, so they won't work for me either right now.

I'd like to try some out, for myself, as well as for the tortoise.

Will


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## sunshine_hugs (Sep 8, 2013)

Will said:


> sunshine_hugs said:
> 
> 
> > So, this might sound crazy, but it also grows in abundance where I live...my family and I all consume it (and on the island here, they use the flowers and seeds as well as the leaves)...but the crazy part is that I've never thought of offering it to my tortoises.
> ...




There's really no wrong way to consume it. The leaves I often throw into salads, or drink as a tea. When I prepare the leaves as tea, it almost made me feel like I was drinking a spinach tea at first. hahaha. It was a mild enough flavour to get used to though (I add local honey). I've also steamed them with callaloo (you could use spinach, as it's a similar texture to callaloo). 

I use the flowers as a tea....again with local honey (the reason I'm sure to use local honey is to help with seasonal allergies...especially for my middle son). I prefer the taste of the flowers in tea. I do know people here who cook the flowers with their meal, or throw them raw in a salad. I've haven't tried that. 

And I haven't used the seeds / pods at all. We do have someone locally who is making an oil from them, but I haven't attempted anything like that yet. 

The trees grow quite fast though, so be aware if you're planting them in your yard. It's best to keep the top pruned often (keeps the height down, and encourages side chutes). 

It's a fascinating tree...I still have a lot to learn.


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## Seadation (Sep 8, 2013)

I'm actually in the process of planting 100 seeds of Moringa Olifera to have for myself and share with friends and family. I am going to start giving it to my G.p.p. and my crew of Blue Tongue skinks. Originally I was interested in the plant for myself but after further research I dont see why it wouldn't be beneficial to our pets as well. If anyone wants any plants let me know and I can save one for you. They should be ready in about a month or two if my green thumb can make them grow. Here's a quick link I found after googling moringa and pets. I have no affiliation to that product however there's good info on that site. http://www.discoverselfwellness.com/PetHealth/moringa.htm
Ron


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## Jacqui (Sep 8, 2013)

I am glad you asked this question, as I had not heard of this and have found the reading very interesting.


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## Yellow Turtle (Sep 8, 2013)

Will said:


> I am not sure what manufactured diets you have access to there, nor that you would use them should you have access. Many manufactured 'tortoise' diets available here in the US have 9% to 12% protein. So that is a start for a basis to say, no 9% is not on the high side. However the labels on the containers often do not explicitly state if it is % DM or not.
> 
> In another thread http://www.tortoiseforum.org/thread-64528.html I sought out a more detailed content of at least one food, ZooMed grassland pellets.
> 
> ...



Thanks Will. We have mazuri here and sometimes we can get zoomed brand as well when someone imports them.

Not to go out of topic, but my experience giving mazuri on daily basis seems to lead to more pyramided growth, that's the reason I try to avoid too much protein.


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## Kapidolo Farms (Sep 9, 2013)

Yellow Turtle, I don't use the Mazuri so much at all. I am confused about what it is to some extent. I was given a small bag and that looks like a yellow dog food in size and shape, then recently on an LLL reptile ad, the image on the plastic bag looks like a pellet. Either way it is not well received by my tortoises. Fed as whole moistened piece or mashed up and mixed into greens, they don't seem to care for it.

I do infuse much chopped fresh grass or wetted dry grass into all salads, and that seems to be mission critical to the proper absorption of all nutrients. If you don't see whole undigested bits of grass in the feces, there is not enough grass in the diet, no matter the species or age/size. That is a eat it or starve salad (tough love) ingredient for my animals. Leaves with big veins like mulberry and hibiscus do this as well, I do not yet have experience with the topic trees' leaves to know how that will "come through".

The rice hulls in the ZooMed and Mazuri don't qualify as long fiber. They better approximate seeds as roughage for digestion processes, not long fiber.

Will


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## BeeBee*BeeLeaves (Sep 9, 2013)

Here are some recipes for tortoise keepers who want to try moringa in their diets ...

http://www.moringatreeoflife.com/Recipes.html


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## sunshine_hugs (Sep 9, 2013)

BeeBee*BeeLeaves said:


> Here are some recipes for tortoise keepers who want to try moringa in their diets ...
> 
> http://www.moringatreeoflife.com/Recipes.html




Great link! Lots of new ideas to try.


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## BeeBee*BeeLeaves (Sep 9, 2013)

sunshine_hugs said:


> Great link! Lots of new ideas to try.



... and I want to come to your house to cook them! Beautiful Grenada in West Indies! : )


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## sunshine_hugs (Sep 10, 2013)

BeeBee*BeeLeaves said:


> ... and I want to come to your house to cook them! Beautiful Grenada in West Indies! : )




You're welcome anytime! Not many people have heard of Grenada, but it's a beautiful little gem.


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## Yellow Turtle (Sep 10, 2013)

Will said:


> Yellow Turtle, I don't use the Mazuri so much at all. I am confused about what it is to some extent. I was given a small bag and that looks like a yellow dog food in size and shape, then recently on an LLL reptile ad, the image on the plastic bag looks like a pellet. Either way it is not well received by my tortoises. Fed as whole moistened piece or mashed up and mixed into greens, they don't seem to care for it.
> 
> I do infuse much chopped fresh grass or wetted dry grass into all salads, and that seems to be mission critical to the proper absorption of all nutrients. If you don't see whole undigested bits of grass in the feces, there is not enough grass in the diet, no matter the species or age/size. That is a eat it or starve salad (tough love) ingredient for my animals. Leaves with big veins like mulberry and hibiscus do this as well, I do not yet have experience with the topic trees' leaves to know how that will "come through".
> 
> ...



I agree very much with you regarding diet, Will. I let my torts starve so they are forced to have grass. For mazuri, I mix them with hays before serving them. I'm glad pieces of information like this moringa leaf coming into this forum. It serves me well to add another kind of diet for my torts.


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## BeeBee*BeeLeaves (Sep 11, 2013)

Will said:


> Yellow Turtle, I don't use the Mazuri so much at all. I am confused about what it is to some extent. I was given a small bag and that looks like a yellow dog food in size and shape, then recently on an LLL reptile ad, the image on the plastic bag looks like a pellet. Either way it is not well received by my tortoises. Fed as whole moistened piece or mashed up and mixed into greens, they don't seem to care for it.
> 
> I do infuse much chopped fresh grass or wetted dry grass into all salads, and that seems to be mission critical to the proper absorption of all nutrients. If you don't see whole undigested bits of grass in the feces, there is not enough grass in the diet, no matter the species or age/size. That is a eat it or starve salad (tough love) ingredient for my animals. Leaves with big veins like mulberry and hibiscus do this as well, I do not yet have experience with the topic trees' leaves to know how that will "come through".
> 
> ...



Great information Will. Thank you. : )


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## Holycow (Jan 12, 2014)

Looks like I forgot to post the moringa photo! Oh Well, I did however offer some of this plant to my juv. aldabra tortoise today and the animal really scarfed it down without hesitation. This tort has been a somewhat picky eater, so it's good to know it's a preferred menu item. (Just to clarify; this aldabra tort really avoids grass at all costs, really only wants the weeds and greens. I can trick it my mixing it into fav. foods, but it will not eat any grasses by itself.)
Anyone else offer moringa with any success.?


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## Yvonne G (Jan 12, 2014)

All of my seedlings died. I'll order more in the Spring.


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## Kapidolo Farms (Jan 12, 2014)

I found some in public gardens here in San Diego, but it would not be okay for me to take any. 

Any privates here in San Diego, that grow this tree and would be willing to share, please give a yell.


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## Seadation (Jan 13, 2014)

I have 10 6-8 inch seedlings available. I'm in South Florida if anyone is interested shoot me a PM.


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