# I need some Advise from Breeders or any body Please!!!!!



## grogansilver (Oct 15, 2011)

I have 3 pairs of Pancakes torts and 2 pairs of Russians and nobody's laying any eggs! there's not even any mating rituals going on here! they are feed every day supplemented by the calcium with D3 they have the correct lighting UVB Bulbs "plus the sun light that comes streaming threw the window full blast in the morning so there cycle is correct! they have proper Enclosure's what the hell!!! is there Maybe a vitamin something like a stimulant to get these guys breeding? "hay humans have Viagra and pomegranate juice and raw clams as an aphrodisiac and other stuff out there! is there something on the market i can buy for these tortoises to get these guys kicking!!!!! No joking!...


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## jackrat (Oct 15, 2011)

None that I know of,unfortunatly. How long have you had them together? Tortoises do things at their own pace,which is awfully slow sometimes,compared to ours. Do they have outdoors enclosures in the summer? All I can say is be patient and spend as much time as possible just watching them.


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## grogansilver (Oct 15, 2011)

jackrat said:


> None that I know of,unfortunately. How long have you had them together? Tortoises do things at their own pace,which is awfully slow sometimes,compared to ours. Do they have outdoors enclosures in the summer? All I can say is be patient and spend as much time as possible just watching them.


  "somebody told me if i put a video on of tortoises mating and just continuously let it run and start over and over they will be encourage into thinking its breed season with the sounds that the tortoises make and hear! is this possible or is some one just pulling my leg?


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## lynnedit (Oct 15, 2011)

Well it might drive them crazy at least!
I can't speak for Pancakes, but there have been a few threads talking about how difficult it is to get Russians to breed in captivity. Some are very successful, obviously, but others have good conditions w/o results.
I do think they need time to adapt to their new environment, and they do move at their own pace.
Here is a great thread (long, but very interesting) that started as a hibernation topic but evolved into a discussion of breeding success and why. I learned a lot reading it.
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/Thread-Hibernation-for-Testudo#axzz1arNEqZxE


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## grogansilver (Oct 15, 2011)

lynnedit said:


> Well it might drive them crazy at least!
> I can't speak for Pancakes, but there have been a few threads talking about how difficult it is to get Russians to breed in captivity. Some are very successful, obviously, but others have good conditions w/o results.
> I do think they need time to adapt to their new environment, and they do move at their own pace.
> Here is a great thread (long, but very interesting) that started as a hibernation topic but evolved into a discussion of breeding success and why. I learned a lot reading it.
> http://www.tortoiseforum.org/Thread-Hibernation-for-Testudo#axzz1arNEqZxE


 *?* I think I'm gonna go with the tape recorder! there are some Russians tortoises Breeding on you tube and making noises on there while trying to mate! and as far as the pancakes go "well may be their get the idea too! Hay you never know!*?*


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## Tom (Oct 15, 2011)

Wish I knew the answer. There are just literally millions of variables involved. Take solace in the fact that you are not alone with either species. Just keep striving to give them the best possible care and hope that "nature" takes its course. It seems that sometimes they just need to settle in for a few years before they will choose to get busy. Some people have had success manipulating light cycles and offering a winter cooling period, or a hibernation in the case of the russians. I doubt your tape recorded mating sounds will do anything, especially in the fall. Maybe try that in the spring.

Good luck and let us know if you discover the "secret".


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## grogansilver (Oct 15, 2011)

Tom said:


> Wish I knew the answer. There are just literally millions of variables involved. Take solace in the fact that you are not alone with either species. Just keep striving to give them the best possible care and hope that "nature" takes its course. It seems that sometimes they just need to settle in for a few years before they will choose to get busy. Some people have had success manipulating light cycles and offering a winter cooling period, or a hibernation in the case of the Russians. I doubt your tape recorded mating sounds will do anything, especially in the fall. Maybe try that in the spring.
> 
> Good luck and let us know if you discover the "secret".


  "Tom" if it works i just could of solved a lot of peoples problems with breeding their tortoises! its worth a "shot" you never know?  ill update the status with the forum later!



Here you go Russians tortoises making noises and mating http://youtu.be/-xlX3wTgSWU[hr]
 "Oh my god" incredible! Both males trying to get on top of the female! one gave up! "but the other male is still in pursuit up the ramp into the house "Man" out of my view, "thats private quarters"! "Hay even the pancakes started something up!


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## jackrat (Oct 15, 2011)

grogansilver said:


> jackrat said:
> 
> 
> > None that I know of,unfortunately. How long have you had them together? Tortoises do things at their own pace,which is awfully slow sometimes,compared to ours. Do they have outdoors enclosures in the summer? All I can say is be patient and spend as much time as possible just watching them.
> ...


Works for me!! Just kidding.Never heard of that.


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## GBtortoises (Oct 15, 2011)

In most cases it takes more than "just putting them together" to start producing eggs. If it were that simple there would be millions of baby tortoises available all the time. Just because they are together, warm and eating doesn't guarantee anything. Just because males are climbing on top of females and attempting to mate doesn't mean anything either. It is just about impossible to explain the entire conditioning process in a post without writing an entire book. In addition to that, Pancakes and Russians have two very different conditioning processes. They have different requirements. It's very doubtful that you're going have any sucessful breeding with either species outdoors here in the Northeast. For both species you will most likely have to keep them solely indoors and manipulate their heat, light duration and intensity and other factors seasonally.


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## grogansilver (Oct 15, 2011)

GBtortoises said:


> In most cases it takes more than "just putting them together" to start producing eggs. If it were that simple there would be millions of baby tortoises available all the time. Just because they are together, warm and eating doesn't guarantee anything. Just because males are climbing on top of females and attempting to mate doesn't mean anything either. It is just about impossible to explain the entire conditioning process in a post without writing an entire book. In addition to that, Pancakes and Russians have two very different conditioning processes. They have different requirements. It's very doubtful that you're going have any successful breeding with either species outdoors here in the Northeast. For both species you will most likely have to keep them solely indoors and manipulate their heat, light duration and intensity and other factors seasonally.


 "Hay Gary how you Been haven't heard from you in a while? And Gary thats exactly what I'm doing indoor breeding! and by the way Gary i got you beat on the time span of dealing with turtles and tortoises Ive been having and keeping turtles and tortoises for 29 years! thats not even all the other so called reptiles Ive had in my life yes i am a reptile freak and I'm not embarrassed to admit it! "Gary more then you could possably imagine! i did only breed a Box turtle once! i wasn't into the breeding like i am now i was always having them as my buddies. well nice to hear from you Gary My (Neighbor!) see ya around take care!   PS: those photos put up were only a joke, Hope you know that! they were staged! i was just having some fun! Gary did you really think they all went for the female by playing mating sounds all thou i am going to try it one Day! just got to get a tape recorder first!


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## GBtortoises (Oct 16, 2011)

I didn't realize that ther was a contest going on but okay: I've been "keeping" turtles since 1969 and tortoises since 1973. Sucessful, consistent breeding is different than just keeping, I've been doing that since about 1984. Are those the same Russian tortoises that you "gave to your brother"? Along with over a dozen turtle and tortoise species I also used to breed Blue tongue and Monkey tail skinks, Slow Worms (legless lizards), Fire Salamanders, African Clawed frogs and some native species as well. Now it's just Northern Mediterranean Testudo and Russian tortoises. At some point soon I'll concentrate more on the Pancakes.
Based on the above replies from everyone else apparently none of us got your joke.


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## grogansilver (Oct 16, 2011)

GBtortoises said:


> I didn't realize that there was a contest going on but okay: I've been "keeping" turtles since 1969 and tortoises since 1973. Successful, consistent breeding is different than just keeping, I've been doing that since about 1984. Are those the same Russian tortoises that you "gave to your brother"? Along with over a dozen turtle and tortoise species I also used to breed Blue tongue and Monkey tail skinks, Slow Worms (legless lizards), Fire Salamanders, African Clawed frogs and some native species as well. Now it's just Northern Mediterranean Testudo and Russian tortoises. At some point soon I'll concentrate more on the Pancakes.
> Based on the above replies from everyone else apparently none of us got your joke.


 Gary thats it? Blue tongue and Monkey tail skinks, Slow Worms (legless lizards), Fire Salamanders, African Clawed frogs and some native species as well! Gary come on you can do better then that! those are soft reptiles please your talking to a guy who grew up in the "Bronx and and spent all of my child hood Hanging out in the Bronx Zoo! talk about wild life conservation, thats my major! I'm not in competition with you Gary i just disagree with your aspect on the Breeding of tortoises thats all! by the way i would like to brag upon a little on just what Ive had and breed sense you mentioned it! and by the way Gary my stuff wasn't purchased from a petco my stuff was bought from well known top Breeders! lets just say my name is well known in the other forums and pet trade for selling and buying out there in all Fields of Reptiles! Let See! "Ackies, "boas, "pythons, "leopard Geckos( which were giants and raptores) "milks snakes almost all of the morphs out there! Kingsnake's, caiman's, Monitor's of all the types you can think of! and so many more! "yes" i have spent thousands of dollars over the years on my hobby that made my life happy and made the reptile industries flourish with my business! do i regret it No! here Gary let me show you an amazing photo i took of one of my so called monitors "every body's gonna love this photo! its one thats a rare picture taken of one of my Argus monitor its so cool! Bye the way Gary if your still interested in selling me a large female Russian or even trading for one of my male pancake tortoises i have I'm up for the trade! it will actually help you along in the successful Breeding of your Pancakes, right now i am so over loaded with males! talk to you later Gary hay call me if your interested you got my # Bye Anthony.


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## Tccarolina (Oct 16, 2011)

? ? ?


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## dmmj (Oct 17, 2011)

People please keep to comments about breeding, there is no need to start a pissing contest,. thank you.


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## grogansilver (Oct 17, 2011)

dmmj said:


> People please keep to comments about breeding, there is no need to start a pissing contest,. thank you.


 dmmj i just sent you a PM can you please kindly answer my question, thank you.


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## dmmj (Oct 17, 2011)

answered


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## grogansilver (Oct 17, 2011)

dmmj said:


> answered


 thank you dmmj for your advice and help  (Pm) sent!


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## grogansilver (Oct 17, 2011)

I do apologize on my behalf to the members of this forum for my combative actions of retaliation! yes i am a person who is easily provoked when pulled into a bad conversation match when attacked by what you call these so called trolls and rude members that do occasionally appear in which these people just appear and come out of no where and like to spark up an argument and like to stir things up and cause chaos. i will learn and try not to be drawn into these matches, i do admit its hard at times because i don't realize that I'm being pulled into one but i do have to say that i am here not for that stuff but just here like you to have fun and learn more about my tortoises (animals) and to also enjoy the many others who come here with questions and and answers for those people especially the one's who's bring the greater knowledge here and want to give it to others by teaching others like me a little bit more of what i don't know, which i feel in return can help in the benefiting of me and others in taking care of our own torts. Sorry again!!! bye Anthony, (grogansilver).


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## Yvonne G (Oct 17, 2011)

Just a note to everyone who may not know:

Everyone has the ability to "edit" *their own* posts. There is a time limit on it, but if you re-read your post and see an error, you can click on the "edit" button under your post. It will ask if you want a "quick edit" or a "full edit." A "quick edit" will allow you to pull up the post and correct any mis-spelled words or delete any sentences, in other words, make changes. Then you click on "save" and it goes back to the thread. 

A "full edit" gives you the option of deleting the whole post.


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## grogansilver (Oct 17, 2011)

"Well how was my day with my pet pancake tortoise? was he a male or female? well he's going to be my best one of them all for the day we both went through and will never forget! the big question was is my tortoise a male or female? well lets see $20.00-for gas!, $65.00 for a vet!, $20.00-for a Dewormer! 70 miles one way and 70 miles back! a traffic ticket for $75.00 not including the court surcharge which will be another $70.00 on top of that! all of this to have Done just to have my little Buddy get probed up the rectum and for the vet to tell me its a male!!!! Oh it gets better! the next thing i do after that is call the dealer who sold me the tortoise and told him everything my little guy and i went through after telling him what i spent and the vet did to my little guy and the end results of it all, the Dealer still swears its a female 100%. He swears that the vet was wrong!!!! Another thing to top things off i now have a medication that is intended to help tortoises with worms and parasites which the label reads Warning: Do not use in horses but the box shows two Beautiful horses on it (pictures include Below!) as far as I'm concern my little buddy is now a he/she Pancake tortoise! i have nothing Else to say but I'm sorry to the little guy for putting him through all that! he's probable right now in the pen communicating to the other tortoises right now telling them how crazy we as humans are for what i put him threw today and that where Aliens that like to prob up their ***! the end, PS: Remember their W/C from the wild where they Were free as a bird and now brought into captivity! "Boy i do love my tortoises...<3


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## jackrat (Oct 17, 2011)

It says not for use on horses *intended for food.*


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## grogansilver (Oct 17, 2011)

jackrat said:


> It says not for use on horses intended for food.


 jackrat Please explain because i just don't get it, Really I'm not Kidding!


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## Neal (Oct 17, 2011)

The best advice I can give here is patience. Like GBtortoises, breeding isn't as simple as putting a group of tortoises together...there are a lot of factors. I was going through your posts and it seems like you have only had your group of pancakes for a couple of weeks correct? New environments and new husbandry will require an acclimation period before the tortoises decided they're ready to mate and lay eggs...this, of course, is different for each individual tortoise, but it could take several years. On top of that there are typically breeding and egg laying seasons for each species of tortoise which will vary depending on where they are located...example...here in AZ most leopard tortoises will begin breeding in the spring and eggs are laid in mid to late summer through fall. Then there are species considerations to factor in...pancakes aren't known for being prolific, even in groups that have been together for several years.

I admire you're breeding aspirations with your tortoises. It's going to be a long process, and as a breeder, the best advise I could give is be patient.


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## grogansilver (Oct 17, 2011)

thank you Neal, you are very kind and i admire your sense of kindness. I know Ive learned a lot today for what i have been threw! "Patients" its called!!!! "peace"...my friend. "No more rushing things here for me....


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## EricIvins (Oct 17, 2011)

How was this Tortoise "probed"? Endoscopy?


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## jackrat (Oct 17, 2011)

grogansilver said:


> jackrat said:
> 
> 
> > It says not for use on horses intended for food.
> ...


I simply quoted the label you posted the picture of."Warning-not for use in horses intended for food" It didn't say not to use it on horses. Just don't eat your horse if you do use this medication on it.


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## Yvonne G (Oct 17, 2011)

Hi Anthony:

You were given a horse de-wormer. That's what most of us use. There is a caution on the box that tells you to not use the de-wormer if you are intending to butcher the horse for human consumption. It is completely safe for horses (and tortoises used in the proper dosage) that are not going to be eaten, but it taints the meat so you wouldn't want to eat it.


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## grogansilver (Oct 17, 2011)

EricIvins said:


> How was this Tortoise "probed"? Endoscopy?


 "EricIvins you the man" i had a feeling we were gonna chat one Day! Eric was that you i did business with for that trade that time with the Ackies and cherry head Baby torts, "Remember in white plains we met or do i have you mistaken with some one else? and your Answer to your question is no i wasn't there at that moment i had steped out to the Bathroom.


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## EricIvins (Oct 17, 2011)

grogansilver said:


> EricIvins said:
> 
> 
> > How was this Tortoise "probed"? Endoscopy?
> ...



No, it wasn't.......

You can't "probe" a Tortoise to determine its sex........You can use an Endoscope, but I've never heard that called "probing" either........

At this point, I would find a new Vet..........I've sold and kept quite a few wild caught Pancake Tortoises and none ever needed to be treated for Parasites........Good husbandry did that for me.......


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## grogansilver (Oct 17, 2011)

EricIvins said:


> grogansilver said:
> 
> 
> > EricIvins said:
> ...


 I'm sorry i thought you were the person i dealt with in the past i probably got you confused with some one else, Hay mistaken identity on my half maybe its that i see you all over the web occasionally on different sites Advertising, Hay sorry again about that! 





grogansilver said:


> EricIvins said:
> 
> 
> > grogansilver said:
> ...


 By the way i forgot to answer you. after today i really don't give a Dam any more what the tortoise is or wounds up being as far as sex wise, not after what Ive been through with today and the last couple of Days chatting on here with people who like to antagonize others and then get away with it!
and me having to apologize in return for arguing back at them for every thing i write and in return to all the other people on here that did nothing to me! I think its time to take a break!!! there's a lot of favoritism on here for people that think that those others they think that know it all,that they are gifted in knowledge when they don't really know the real person there looking at is just a fake of all.


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## Yvonne G (Oct 17, 2011)

Take it easy Anthony. None of us here are antagonistic. I think you're reading into the posts something that isn't there. Most of us just share what we know from personal experience. *You can take it or leave it.* So take a breath. We're here to help. And we're hoping you have breeding success that you can share with us down the line.


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## fbsmith3 (Oct 17, 2011)

All things being equal I have learned so much about Pancake Tortoises.


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## grogansilver (Oct 17, 2011)

"Wow" what a day i had! this one will go into my book of Memories..... But i don't care that tortoise is still a female!!!!!!!!! i just know it. Peace!  Good night..


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