# Pictures of Desert Tortoise with Broken Jaw



## Candy

Remember the thread that Laura posted not too long ago about the Desert Tortoise with the broken jaw who needed to be rescued from the vet? 

http://www.tortoiseforum.org/Thread-ATR-has-a-special-needs-CDT-in-need-of-care

Well I went to see him last Friday and couldn't leave him behind. Once they brought him out to see me and put him on that cold metal table I felt so bad for him I had to take him with me. He is one big Desert Tortoise, weighing in at 15.8 lbs. and 15 inches long and 10 inches wide. He makes Fernando look small. The vet that I got him from said that they have been tube feeding him for the last 6 months, every two weeks. The doctor told me that they didn't keep any heat on him while he was at that vet's office for that 6 months. I took him to see Dr. Greek in Yorba Linda and what a wonderful person he is. He said that the jaw and the beak have been broken and that there are two things that we can do for him. The first is to cut his food up and then he should be able to eat it or if I find he's having too much difficulty then we could do surgery to glue and wire the jaw back, but he did not think that the second one was a good option. Well he ate quite well last night and tonight after I cut it up for him. He can even eat the weeds in the yard it's just that he can't seem to get a good grip with his mouth so I'm not sure how much he's actually getting. I emailed Danny to take a look at him and he agrees that the best option is the first one. They both say that it is hard for this kind of injury to grow back together once it has already healed. Danny did mention that in the 6th picture if you notice the back of his head he looks under weight. I have been pm'ing David (Dmmj) about the CTTC helping in adopting him out since I already have Fernando and can't put them together. Here's some pictures of him at my house and at the vet's office. In some of the pictures his mouth looks green, that's because I blended some cactus and fed him with a spoon. He's a messy eater.  He is a very nice tortoise and seems to be well socialized.





































My husband's foot to compare size, my husband wears a size 13 shoe. He also has a big bruise from my sons baseball.


----------



## Torty Mom

Awwww Candy, he is a handsome fella!!! Poor guy!!!


----------



## Miss_Kat

Oh he is SO handsome! I am glad you got him and cutting up his food for now should be great. If you want to talk to another great Tort Vet in Pasadena PM me, I took mine to an AMAZING one and she was actually really affordable. 

again, what a handsome lil dude you got!!


----------



## terryo

It looks like he's been through hell, Candy. Poor thing. I hope David can help find him a home.....otherwise....


----------



## Stephanie Logan

It's hard not to cringe at those photos...do they know how this poor Guy's jaw got broken? 
I guess that doesn't really affect the outcome now. Bless you for taking him in though, Candy.


----------



## Maggie Cummings

Oh Candy thank you so much for taking him. You are so good to do that. DT's are very easy to treat when they are hurt much easier than any other tortoise species I have experience with. Thank you so much for what you are doing for him...


----------



## Jacob

Poor Guy, At Least Hes In Great Hands!


----------



## dmmj

I have to admit I thought it was gonna be worse, but he looks pretty darn good considering ,and it seems like he can eat pretty well,I am so glad he is out of there and with someone who cares so much.


----------



## Laura

yay!!! thank you for the update!!! and for getting him out of the Vet...~


----------



## Candy

Thank you everyone for the nice comments. The vet had told me that the original owner brought him in due to a fight with another tortoise. The vet then glued the jaw back together and told the owner not to put him with any tortoises, but he did and it happened again. The vet was not to clear about how he got him though, all he said was something about the guy not being able to pay for x-rays so he kept the tortoise.  Now I'm having to put him out in the yard first and when he's done eating then I bring him in and put Fernando out for a while and so on and so on. Noah, my 11 year old is very good with him too. He's been taking him out front in the yard and he will go and pick hibiscus flowers and hold them until he gets them in his mouth. He seems to like them.


----------



## l0velesly

Poor thing!! It's sad that his jaw will not fully recover again. I'm glad you took him in.. even if it's temporary.


----------



## Laura

can they get each other sick by sharing the yard and not direct contact?


----------



## dmmj

Laura said:


> can they get each other sick by sharing the yard and not direct contact?


It's technically possible but highly unlikely, most CDT diseases are spread by direct contact with bodily fluids ( snot,blood, and such)


----------



## Candy

I'm not afraid of them getting each other sick just that they would fight since they're males. I can't believe that this big guy didn't win the fight that broke his jaw, he is the biggest Desert that I've seen yet. I do have to find him a home though. Hey Laura did that one that you found before find it's owner or not? This one would probably love Sacramento.


----------



## Shelly

Since the beak of a tortoise is continually growing, I think with time much of that space between the 2 sections will close.


----------



## exoticsdr

It's hard to tell by the pics, but is there a piece of bone missing at the break on the left side (mandible break)? Did Dr. Greek mention anything about necrotic bone where the mandible is broken? I'm surprised he didn't want to stabilize the break at the mandibular symphysis, it will be very difficult for it to heal while there is movement present (that is, provided there is no necrotic bone or other tissue preventing it). I've fixed many of these surgically with little to no complication in many different species. Please keep us posted on his recovery.


----------



## dmmj

Exoticdr do you think he is in pain at all?


----------



## Candy

exoticsdr said:


> It's hard to tell by the pics, but is there a piece of bone missing at the break on the left side (mandible break)? Did Dr. Greek mention anything about necrotic bone where the mandible is broken? I'm surprised he didn't want to stabilize the break at the mandibular symphysis, it will be very difficult for it to heal while there is movement present (that is, provided there is no necrotic bone or other tissue preventing it). I've fixed many of these surgically with little to no complication in many different species. Please keep us posted on his recovery.



Dr. Greek didn't say anything about the bone but the other vet said that there was none there. This is interesting. I might have to call him back and ask him about this. Thank you for looking at him. I will try to get a better picture of the left side and post it here. The vet that I picked him up from said that he should have a plate put there, but I don't know if that's what you're talking about or not.


----------



## Laura

Road trip to Texas??


----------



## Candy

Here's some new pictures of Jawbreaker, that's his temporary name.  I cringed when the doctor opened his mouth, but he told me that it's o.k. just to hold his head. I hope that I didn't hurt him and I hope that these will help you tell me if the surgery would help him. 









































I hope these help.


----------



## Tortuga_terrestre

WOW! Poor Guy....his eyes look swollen.


----------



## Candy

Tortuga_terrestre said:


> WOW! Poor Guy....his eyes look swollen.



Wow welcome home Walter. How was your time at camp?


----------



## Laura

can he eat? graze? does the lower jaw move? is that a runny nose I see?


----------



## Candy

He seems to be able to eat grass just not the same as Fernando does. His pull is not the same strength as Fernando because his jaw is injured. No it's not a running nose, actually he looks rather healthy for being tube fed for 6 months. He is a little underweight that's all. 



Shelly said:


> Since the beak of a tortoise is continually growing, I think with time much of that space between the 2 sections will close.



Actually Shelly what the Dr. Greek had explained to me is this kind of break in the beak/jaw will not heal itself together. It will grow out split.


----------



## Tortuga_terrestre

Candy said:


> Tortuga_terrestre said:
> 
> 
> 
> WOW! Poor Guy....his eyes look swollen.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wow welcome home Walter. How was your time at camp?
Click to expand...


Camp??? hahaha.. we had roasted marshmallows...ha... ill take pics of the tan line on my head... but I'm just glad to be back in civilization..


----------



## SnakeyeZ

Poor thing... hopefully he'll recover.

I think he was the winner... should have seen the other guy.


----------



## CJSTorts

Wow, so glad you are getting him proper care now. I hope you can find a home for him that will care as much for him as you do.


----------



## terryo

Candy, have you tried putting him with yours? Maybe they will get along. As you can see, I know nothing about DT's. I always worry...what if Solo and Pio don't get along when Solo get's older. I'm lucky that Pio is a female, and maybe no matter what Solo is, they'll get along.


----------



## Torty Mom

Man I would take him in a second, but I already have a male. Poor guy, it hurts to look at those pictures! Poor Guy!! Candy you are his guardian angel, what an awesome thing you are doing to take such good care of him! It was his lucky day when you picked him up!


----------



## Laura

so if the grass is soft and fresh he can eat just fine? Did they do xrays?


----------



## Candy

Thank you Charlotte. I'm hoping that I can find him a loving home too. 

Terry I'm afraid to put them together since that is why he is like this to begin with. I can't believe as big as he is that he lost any fight.  I've always been told that males don't get along and since Fernando is around 35 years old and Jaw Breaker (that's his temporary name ) is around 40 to 50 years old I don't think that they would like each other very much, but I could be wrong.

I know what you mean about already having a male Torty Mom. If I didn't already have a male I would definitely keep this one. Today he saw me and came right up to me as if to say "You're the one who feeds me aren't you?" He is so cute and social.

Laura he can pull some grass on his own. I've been helping him since he is underweight by feeding him by hand. I let him graze and then I put the cut up food in his mouth. He has a strong enough grip, but I'm sure it's nothing like Fernando's. Dr. Greek seems to think that he can get some food on his own since when I took him in for his checkup he had grass in his throat. Dr. Greek said that he didn't need to take x-rays, that he could already see the damage done and that it's already healed so there's really no reason for any unless he was going to do surgery then he said that he would take some. The vet that I got him from said that he had taken them about a year ago and now that he's gone digital he didn't have them handy, but he did say that when and if he found them that he would email them to me. No surprise that I haven't gotten an email from him yet.


----------



## ascott

In my personal experience (my 4 males and others I have observed) male Ca Desert Tortoise do not get along, they turn into gladiators at the drop of a dime.

Two of the males I have now use to be housed together...but take into account that the Old Man Humphry had issues (bad eye sight, what ended up to be an abscess and a general mellow attitude) which made him not a fighting partner, however, I found that he likely suffered silent bullying....then I witnessed outright bashing and attempted biting attacks...heck Herman even tried to mount the poor guy...so once I was in a position to convince the prior host to remove the old man, that is what was done...and they have not been housed together since they have been turned over to me. They each have their own yard space and they are both aok  All four of my guys have their own yard space...peaceful.


----------



## CJSTorts

Candy said:


> Thank you Charlotte. I'm hoping that I can find him a loving home too.
> [qoute]
> 
> If I was in CA I would take him in a heartbeat. I'm glad to hear it looks like he can eat some grass on his own. Maybe he needs some time to build up his jaw muscles again since he was syringe fed for 6 months.


----------



## Laura

candy is you get desperate to place him,, we can talk.. I have room, just would need to put up some walls.. visual barriers and a few barricades..


----------



## Isa

O MY Gosh, Candy, I just saw this thread! Jawbreaker is gorgeous and I thank God that his paths crossed yours. Poor little guy (well big guy ) Some people make me sooo mad!! I am so glad that he is now in your family and that you guys treat him like a little prince . I hope and pray that you will find him a very good home .
I have been cutting Hermy's food in little pieces since I got him. The vet told me that they must have fed him too much protein (cat food and dog food) so I will have to do that all his life.


----------



## -EJ

That's the equivilent of a cleft pallet. The keritin of the jaw splits beyond the line of growth... that's what protects the bone structure of the jaw. That tortoise lived a long time like that.


----------



## Candy

-EJ said:


> That's the equivilent of a cleft pallet. The keritin of the jaw splits beyond the line of growth... that's what protects the bone structure of the jaw. That tortoise lived a long time like that.



EJ do you think that he has lived like this for a year or so because that's actually what the first vet that had him told me. I'm not sure what to believe since he didn't even give me the x-rays that he had taken so that I could take them with me to show the reptile vet.  He seems to understand quite well me handing him his food as he opens his mouth even when I just go to pet the top of his head.


----------



## -EJ

That tortoise has lived like that for a very long time. Who ever raised it... looks like it is wild caught.

In the past I was under the impression it could not be fixed. I know some amazing vets today.

Word of caution... CTDs to not like change. Why is the owner giving it up?



Candy said:


> -EJ said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's the equivilent of a cleft pallet. The keritin of the jaw splits beyond the line of growth... that's what protects the bone structure of the jaw. That tortoise lived a long time like that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EJ do you think that he has lived like this for a year or so because that's actually what the first vet that had him told me. I'm not sure what to believe since he didn't even give me the x-rays that he had taken so that I could take them with me to show the reptile vet.  He seems to understand quite well me handing him his food as he opens his mouth even when I just go to pet the top of his head.
Click to expand...


----------



## Laura

EJ per prior posts.. the owner turned it in, took it home and it got attacked again, so it was surrendered to vet.. vet/rescue said it needed a new home. candy was nice enough to go pick him up. i think she is still looking for a home for him.


----------



## Candy

Laura's exactly right. He supposedly got into a fight with another tortoise (this is the story that I received from the vet) and he glued the jaw/beak back together and then sent it home with instructions for the owner not to put it back with any other tortoises, but the owner didn't listen and supposedly he got into another fight and it re-broke the jaw/beak. The vet told me that the owner couldn't pay him for the x-rays so the vet kept him. I'm not sure if I believe the entire story, but I just knew he was kept cold there and needed a warm place to go to so I took him home with me. Dr. Greek (the herp vet that I took him to) said that we could attempt to fix it if I find that he is having too much difficulty eating. He doesn't guarantee that it would work though if we did do surgery. He actually thinks it would be better to cut his food up for him and let him be. I would definitely be willing to pay for the surgery if I knew that it could provide a better life for him. I am cutting up his food and he's doing fine eating it. He does pull at the grass and is able to get some of it I'm just not positive how much he's actually getting and that it why I am supplementing his diet with cut up greens.


----------



## ascott

How is Jawbreaker doing these days?


----------



## pandacakes

How wonderful of you for taking him in  He sounds like a sweetheart


----------



## cemmons12

Poor guy!! I'm so happy he is in good hands now, bless you! I love hearing a good ending, even tho its not the end, just kind of a pit stop along the way. I wish I had the room and the right year round weather to help rescue some of these poor fellows! Id do it in a heartbeat!


----------



## Candy

Thank you for asking about Jawbreaker.  He actually went to his new home about 3 weeks ago. It was heartbreaking to let him go. This guy had such a wonderful personality. I had contacted the CTTC and she called me back when she found a home for him. He will actually be educating people on how tortoises should be taken care of and what happens when their not taken care of them properly, so I thought that would be a good life for him. He is very social so he should really enjoy be the center of attention.


----------



## ascott

Yay Jawbreaker and Candy, incase no one has told you today, you are awesome


----------



## Candy

Thank you.


----------

