# How dangerous are HOME DEPOT plants?



## ZEROPILOT (Feb 18, 2015)

Recently, I purchased both Primrose and Begonias for my out doors enclosures and noticed a separate pesticide label. After looking around, I saw that most of the plants had the same warning. Deer and pest resistant NEONICOTINOIDS. And "Not for human or animal consumption."
I looked online and found that although it is approved by the FDA there is some evidence that it gets into every cell of the plant, rendering it toxic. Period.
It may also be linked to Honey Bee deaths worldwide.
This is bad because I had been using Home Depot plants in part, to feed my tortoises.
I'd never seen any warnings or notices before. Only labels about watering and care...


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## Michael in MO (Feb 18, 2015)

I shop for my torts every week when I'm getting groceries, I'm not sure actually getting landscaping for food is that cost effective or safe (I've never seen a bug or caterpillar on a Home Depot plant) I would avoid that practice..


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## HLogic (Feb 18, 2015)

They should work very well as decorative plants for your house but after reading the neonicotinoid info would NEVER use them as a food source for anything. 10 years from now, you may be able to feed them to your animals but I would err on the side of safety...


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## Tom (Feb 18, 2015)

You are just realizing this now? I've been harping on this for years. We now have 2 TFO members who are experienced tortoise keepers and have been working in the commercial plant industry for many years. They both say the same thing: Any plant you buy in a store like HD or a nursery is full of systemic pesticides. Neither of these guys would buy something from HD and put it in their tortoise enclosure.

At the same time we have many members here who simply bury their head in the sand and say, "Oh well I just buy new plants and put them in all the time and my tortoises are fine." Makes me wonder just how "fine" they are.


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## Iochroma (Feb 18, 2015)

I am in the horticulture industry, and I will tell you the pesticides used on greenhouse and landscape plants are horrible. Strangely enough, the Neonicotinoides are not the ones you need to worry about. They are not very dangerous to higher animals. People always worry about the thing that is in the news...
Let me just say that I do not use any plant commercially-grown in an animal environment for at least 8 months after I get it.


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## Heather H (Feb 18, 2015)

Does washing the plant help ? Do the pesticides leach into the substrate if planted directly in the enclosure?


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## Tom (Feb 18, 2015)

Heather H said:


> Does washing the plant help ? Do the pesticides leach into the substrate if planted directly in the enclosure?



My understanding is that some of these pesticides are systemic, meaning the plants absorb the compounds into their tissues, thereby making bugs not want to eat any part of the plant. So no, washing the outside of the plant will not remove these toxins.

Yes these chemicals will leach into the surrounding substrate if you plant them in your enclosure.


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## HLogic (Feb 18, 2015)

Iochroma said:


> I am in the horticulture industry, and I will tell you the pesticides used on greenhouse and landscape plants are horrible. Strangely enough, the Neonicotinoides are not the ones you need to worry about. They are not very dangerous to higher animals. People always worry about the thing that is in the news...
> Let me just say that I do not use any plant commercially-grown in an animal environment for at least 8 months after I get it.



There have been studies that demonstrate the bacterial and photolytic metabolites of them appear to be rather dangerous to higher animals - mice, rats, dogs, some birds... Do you have sources you can share that substantiate lesser toxicity? I may have missed them in my rather cursory search for info. Any info on the half-life of the metabolites (e.g. its nitrosoimine metabolite (WAK 3839)) would be welcomed, as well.


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## TortsNTurtles (Feb 18, 2015)

I am currently using fake plants for my baby turtles because I am so afraid of using plants for that reason. http://www.neherpetoculture.com/plantpacks raise organic grown plants and ship them. They still recommend rinsing the plants etc. and give instructions on how to when the plants arrive. Unfortunately. it is to cold to ship right now so I will have to wait a few weeks. They are also researching safe succulents to sell so maybe a tortoise or turtle expert can help them in that area  They are really nice people to talk .


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## Iochroma (Feb 18, 2015)

Any stu


HLogic said:


> There have been studies that demonstrate the bacterial and photolytic metabolites of them appear to be rather dangerous to higher animals - mice, rats, dogs, some birds... Do you have sources you can share that substantiate lesser toxicity? I may have missed them in my rather cursory search for info. Any info on the half-life of the metabolites (e.g. its nitrosoimine metabolite (WAK 3839)) would be welcomed, as well.



Again, the dangers of neonics pale in comparison to fungicides used widely. 
Almost all of the work with neonics has been done on mammals, so is not applicable to tortoises. Amphibians were always adversely affected, but aquatic reptiles did not seem to show harm. If you found studies relevant to those secondary metabolites in reptiles, then great, please share them.


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## Tom (Feb 18, 2015)

TortsNTurtles said:


> I am currently using fake plants for my baby turtles because I am so afraid of using plants for that reason. http://www.neherpetoculture.com/plantpacks raise organic grown plants and ship them. They still recommend rinsing the plants etc. and give instructions on how to when the plants arrive. Unfortunately. it is to cold to ship right now so I will have to wait a few weeks. They are also researching safe succulents to sell so maybe a tortoise or turtle expert can help them in that area  They are really nice people to talk .



My problem with fake plants is that all of my torts want to eat them. Everyone should use caution with fake plants. Just like a cuttle bone, they can be ignored for weeks or months, until one day when they are not ignored...


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## mini_max (Feb 18, 2015)

Geez. Changes required immediately!! I'm so sorry to have ever told anyone "oh you can find that stuff at Home Depot". I thought time and replanting would do the trick. Thank you for the information.


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## Randi (Feb 18, 2015)

I've had a Bromeliad in my tank for a few weeks after having it sit by itself over 4 months. There are no parts available for her to eat but I will be taking it out after reading this, and doing a thorough cleaning on her tank. Rather be safe then sorry. 

Thank you, ZEROPILOT, for asking this. It will benefit people to read this thread. I will point out that my plant never had any tag mentioning consumption or pesticide use, it was a barcode and it said BROMELIAD. I didn't see any signs  it was also from Home Depot. Mine has not had the chance to consume anything, I hope yours will be ok. I would assume that you would start to see ill effects, and if you haven't, they should be fine now?


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## Yvonne G (Feb 18, 2015)

Moral: Learn how to propagate, plant seeds and grow your own plants! Read the gardening threat. Prairie Mom has the right idea.


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## dmmj (Feb 18, 2015)

I haven't used non private nursery plants ( non home improvement store plants) in years, if I do I re-pot, in new worm composted soil, and wait 6 months to a yerar, usually a year, for food sources. Of course I grow most of my own food so....
I just don't want to take the risk, no matter how small it may be.


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## HLogic (Feb 18, 2015)

Iochroma said:


> Any stu
> 
> 
> Again, the dangers of neonics pale in comparison to fungicides used widely.
> Almost all of the work with neonics has been done on mammals, so is not applicable to tortoises. Amphibians were always adversely affected, but aquatic reptiles did not seem to show harm. If you found studies relevant to those secondary metabolites in reptiles, then great, please share them.



I have seen nothing related to reptiles.


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## Heather H (Feb 18, 2015)

So here's a question. How safe are organically grown plants? My niece told me today that they can still use pesticides and fungicides as long as they are from organic sources. I removed the organic plants from my enclosure. I think I will just grow my own.


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## TortsNTurtles (Feb 18, 2015)

I guess it depends too on what are you using the plants for. I grow the tortoise weeds/plant food indoors in the winter but for the box turtles I just want to create a vivarium for them to hide in like the forest.That would be the reason I would want to purchase plants verses growing them. I am looking to create a vivarium.I guess I could take clippings from my mother in laws indoor plants and start them but I wanted a variety .Here is Tutor hiding under silk fake leaves ( picture blown up so you can see her ) and some tortoise food growing in pots under plant lights.Seeds are the way to go for food but I would love to just purchase safe plants to create a vivarium for hiding and humidity.


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## Iochroma (Feb 18, 2015)

Heather H said:


> So here's a question. How safe are organically grown plants? My niece told me today that they can still use pesticides and fungicides as long as they are from organic sources. I removed the organic plants from my enclosure. I think I will just grow my own.



The usual organic fungicide is sulphur; I'm not a big fan of this, but I also don't worry about small amount on my food. Organically grown should mean no pesticides that are not natural; most of these pesticides are pretty safe for humans. I don't know of any organic pesticides that are of particular concern for reptiles ( amphibians are a different story ).


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## Heather H (Feb 18, 2015)

Iochroma said:


> The usual organic fungicide is sulphur; I'm not a big fan of this, but I also don't worry about small amount on my food. Organically grown should mean no pesticides that are not natural; most of these pesticides are pretty safe for humans. I don't know of any organic pesticides that are of particular concern for reptiles ( amphibians are a different story ).


That's where my concern comes in. We are big they are so very little. I'm not going to chance it.  we are going to grow as much as we can this summer and dry a bunch of things.


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## bouaboua (Feb 18, 2015)

Again I learn something here in the forum again! ! ! !


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## tglazie (Feb 18, 2015)

This is the reason I get almost everything from seed. What I don't get from seed, I get shipped in from organic nurseries, given that I don't have any here in town that I trust. About twenty years back, when we first moved into my new house, I ordered some Pakistani mulberry trees from some now defunct organic grower in Northern California, along with a variety of grape vines. These fantastic plants have provided me with so much tortoise food, it is ridiculous. The rest I buy as seed and sow in early January, so the tortoises have fresh graze by late February when they wake from brumation. But yeah, I don't even buy top soil from Home Depot. I think the only thing I have actually gotten from them are cinder blocks to build my enclosure walls, and I figure they're safe, given that they're on the other side of the store. 

T.G.


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## dmmj (Feb 18, 2015)

did @Heather H call us big? was I jkust insulted?


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## Heather H (Feb 18, 2015)

dmmj said:


> did @Heather H call us big? was I jkust insulted?


 I guess I did.


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## ascott (Feb 18, 2015)

Heather H said:


> Does washing the plant help ? Do the pesticides leach into the substrate if planted directly in the enclosure?



No, most chemicals are taken up into the plant systemically.....so no matter how much you wash it....it is in the plant....so the plant would need to be cared for (out of the enclosure) about a year....and during that time you can trim away old growth as new growth begins....keep the plant well/appropriately watered....


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## ZEROPILOT (Feb 19, 2015)

I always read the labels. I incorrectly guessed that there would be warnings. There are now. (At H.D)
Just about all of the plants I feed are from Hibiscus that are many years old and from things I've grown. Thankfully I can stop this before it started. Thanks.
Also, I have had tortoises try to eat plastic leaves.


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## Golden.Greek (Jun 24, 2021)

I fed a single petunia flower from Home Depot to my tortoise, will he be ok and what can I do???


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## RosemaryDW (Jun 25, 2021)

mini_max said:


> Geez. Changes required immediately!! I'm so sorry to have ever told anyone "oh you can find that stuff at Home Depot". I thought time and replanting would do the trick. Thank you for the information.


Time does do the trick; give them eight months to a year to grow that stuff out of the plant and it will be fine. If you are buying seasonal plants that won’t work, of course.


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## RosemaryDW (Jun 25, 2021)

Golden.Greek said:


> I fed a single petunia flower from Home Depot to my tortoise, will he be ok and what can I do???


Unless he is a baby I think he will suffer no or very minimal harm from eating a single flower. You can give him an extra soak to see if he goes to the bathroom a little sooner than usual. Some will suggest feeding “wet” food, like cucumber, to move things out of his system.

Tortoises occasionally get into the wrong thing but we have very, very few proven instances of tortoise death strictly tied to diet. It’s super important to be careful but I wouldn’t freak out over this.


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## jwr0201 (Jun 25, 2021)

Michael in MO said:


> I shop for my torts every week when I'm getting groceries, I'm not sure actually getting landscaping for food is that cost effective or safe (I've never seen a bug or caterpillar on a Home Depot plant) I would avoid that practice..


I'm in the landscape industry and have an addendum to respectfully include your statement regarding pesticides on plants. Many/most small growers do not use pesticides on all of their plants. Take Milkweed, herbs, etc. There are no pesticides used there. In many small nurseries I've been in, there are butterflies all over, visiting flowers throughout the nursery. Butterflies are good environmental indicators, as they are rather delicate and certainly would not survive if they had contact with plants that had been sprayed. Also, the milkweed is for Monarch caterpillars. 
Agreed that plants grown for the big box commercial places are thoroughly sprayed. Likely due to their 'no questions asked' plant return policies. If a place has no warranty on their plants, they likely do not spray.


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## jwr0201 (Jun 25, 2021)

ZEROPILOT said:


> Recently, I purchased both Primrose and Begonias for my out doors enclosures and noticed a separate pesticide label. After looking around, I saw that most of the plants had the same warning. Deer and pest resistant NEONICOTINOIDS. And "Not for human or animal consumption."
> I looked online and found that although it is approved by the FDA there is some evidence that it gets into every cell of the plant, rendering it toxic. Period.
> It may also be linked to Honey Bee deaths worldwide.
> This is bad because I had been using Home Depot plants in part, to feed my tortoises.
> I'd never seen any warnings or notices before. Only labels about watering and care...


Zero - forget Home Depot & Lowes. Visit your small local mom & pop nurseries. Ask them about spraying - they will be honest. Look for butterflies and bees among the plants. Also, if they have edibles, butterfly plants and MIlkweed, they most likely do not spray.


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## Blackdog1714 (Jun 25, 2021)

jwr0201 said:


> Zero - forget Home Depot & Lowes. Visit your small local mom & pop nurseries. Ask them about spraying - they will be honest. Look for butterflies and bees among the plants. Also, if they have edibles, butterfly plants and MIlkweed, they most likely do not spray.


My place is Azalea Garden Center family owned an operated since there was a K Mart there many years ago. They are a no chemical except for roses kinda place. Their supplier uses fish fertilizer so it is safe for human and animal consumption. A little more expensive but often have stuff you are really looking for or will order it! I have been shopping there since 1999 and Covid-19 helped them. They doubled their orders and sold each out days after it arrived especially since who carries lemon basil?


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## ZEROPILOT (Jun 25, 2021)

jwr0201 said:


> Zero - forget Home Depot & Lowes. Visit your small local mom & pop nurseries. Ask them about spraying - they will be honest. Look for butterflies and bees among the plants. Also, if they have edibles, butterfly plants and MIlkweed, they most likely do not spray.


These plants are all more than 5 years old now and are gigantic shrubs.
Half of my yard is one interconnected tangle of Hibuscus.
I will never need another new plant as long as I live here


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