# The siblings are moving in



## galvinkaos (Mar 11, 2009)

I was told today that my friend wants to give me the kids siblings. As you can see in the picture there were three. Unfortunately one has died. She said that due to work (trying not to lose her business, working 7 days a week) she has not been taking as good of care of them as she should and knows that I will take good care of them. I will be building them their own tort table tomorrow after work. I don't know what condition they are in but I will be ready. New table, new lights, getting jars of baby food (for soaking) and making a vet appointment. I pick them up Friday afternoon or evening. I am hoping for the best but will be prepared for the worst.







I am hoping to get pics of the adult torts she has on Friday so I can end the parentage mystery. They have come out of hibernation.

Dawna


----------



## Kristina (Mar 12, 2009)

Glad to hear you are getting the remaining two. I can't wait to see pics of the parents!

Kristina


----------



## Crazy1 (Mar 12, 2009)

Dawna, sounds like you have things under control at least as far as getting them started on the path to wellness and a healthy existence. My hat is off to you and people who take on torts or any animal that is not always in the best of health. Hoping they are not in bad shape and it goes easy for you. Looking forward to hearing of their escapades and seeing Pics


----------



## Jentortmom (Mar 12, 2009)

I hope they are doing well, good luck with your new additions.


----------



## Laura (Mar 12, 2009)

I would like to see the parents taken away as well.. or at least seperated.. no breeding should be taking place...
My opinion tho...


----------



## galvinkaos (Mar 12, 2009)

Laura said:


> I would like to see the parents taken away as well.. or at least separated.. no breeding should be taking place...
> My opinion tho...



I understand what you mean, but I don't think that is necessary at this point. She has a 7 year old female sulcata, an adult male DT (will get age tomorrow) and an unknown species, unknown age female). The rest of the background is too long to cover now, but I will after tomorrow when I have all the details. Anyway, her unknown species female has been found laying eggs 2 times. They were deposited above ground and in the middle of the yard and got broken. She threw them away. She did not know the kids eggs had been laid until she had babies cruising around the yard (Oct 2007). No eggs or babies have been found since. These guys apparently were hidden or buried. My understanding is that there is a size difference now and breeding would not be possible. I was told the male DT has a thing for the female sulcata and ignores the other female. I guess he likes BIG women . As I said before I will get everyone's pictures and as much info as is known tomorrow. I hope to finally solve the parents mystery or at least get closer to the answer.

Dawna


----------



## Kristina (Mar 13, 2009)

Any updates?

Kristina


----------



## galvinkaos (Mar 13, 2009)

Well they are home. They have had a bath in warm water and are now soaking in baby carrots and water. They have been given names - Jefferson is the bigger one (left) and Maude is smaller (right).





They are a little lethargic and have slightly puffy eyes. I am going to put them in a plastic tub for now and will build them a table this weekend. I wasn't up to it the other night. (Stopped typing to get them out and eat pizza)

They are under the kids UVB bulb (I have their tub over 1 end of the kids table) and a red heat bulb. It is 95F under the heat light. I am going to keep them warmer until they are more active and I can check out how they are eating etc.






Dawna


----------



## Yvonne G (Mar 13, 2009)

Pretty little things, aren't they? The puffy eyes will go away after a few baby food soaks. The shells look real good. Glad you were able to rescue them!

Yvonne


----------



## galvinkaos (Mar 13, 2009)

They were real dirty when I picked them up. That's why they got the bath before the soak in carrots. She already had them in a plastic tub for me when I got there. I wanted to see what there house looked like - substrate, lights, heat, etc. But I guess it doesn't matter. We move forward. 

Dawna


----------



## Kristina (Mar 13, 2009)

Glad to hear they are home and doing okay. Ella and Gwen had swollen, watery eyes too when I picked them up, and they cleared up within three days.

Kristina


----------



## tortoisenerd (Mar 13, 2009)

I'm anxious too!

never mind I refreshed...lol Glad they are home!


----------



## galvinkaos (Mar 15, 2009)

They are all set up in their new home. I built the table and hide yesterday. 








I have the end covered with the left over shower curtain to keep the heat in better because it is close to the door.








Today I am picking up a UVB bulb for them.
Maude is eating. Jefferson is not. They were soaked in carrots friday, bird vitamins yesterday, and sweet potatoes today. Maude slept in the hide and Jefferson slept in the water dish last night. It is under the heat so it is warm. They are going to the vet tomorrow. Haven't seen any poop yet, even when they were soaking. I think Jefferson is going to take alot of TLC and work. Maude is going to do well with just TLC. But time will tell.

Dawna

I was working with Jefferson and Maude and turned around to find my cat napping with Doris and Fred.






She found a warm and soft bed on the semi dry (haven't wet it down today) moss on their hide. I busted her on Friday watching them and checking out the new kids from inside the table.






She is never in the office when no one is in there.


----------



## tortoisenerd (Mar 15, 2009)

Glad they have a vet visit scheduled. That was some fast work with building the table!


----------



## galvinkaos (Mar 15, 2009)

Thanks. What I can do with the right power tools and a plan.  It took about 2 hours to build and another 30 mins to set up.

Dawna


----------



## galvinkaos (Mar 15, 2009)

Well I finally found poop. It was pea sized- looked like a rabbit pellet. That's how I missed it. Unfortunately it is only from Maude. She is eating good and active. I saw her drink from their water dish today. I am very happy with her condition, although she is very lightweight and too flat looking. I think she will recover very well.
Jefferson is not in as good of shape. No poop, no eating even when harassed. He only wants to sleep. Eyes are closed and he only moves if necessary. 
I soaked them today in the sweet potatoes.Tomorrow they are off to the vet. I don't like sick babies. I want to see progress fast and I know it doesn't happen that way very often.
My husband gave me kudos for how great Doris and Fred are doing. They just show me how far Jefferson and Maude have to go to have me not worry about them.

Dawna


----------



## galvinkaos (Mar 18, 2009)

Well we have had vet issues. Our regular office's herp vet had an emergency and is out until Friday. They referred me to another vet who said their herp vet was out Monday but back yesterday. I worked until 7:30pm and they closed at 6pm. I called today and they couldn't see them but I could drop them off and pay emergency vet fees and overnight hospitalization fees (75.00+ each) and they would check them out overnight. Or I could bring them between 730 and 8am tomorrow and only pay an office visit and what needs done. Their office visit is twice my regular vet cost, so I decided that Jefferson is going in the morning and Maude is waiting until Friday. Maude is great. (S)he eats good and is active and adapting well. Very friendly and sweet. Jefferson is another story. He has not eaten or pooped. I have soaked them at least once a day since they came home and no poop. He moves around the enclosure to regulate his temp including in and out of the water dish but he just sleeps. He barely opens his eyes. The vet suggested I try to get him to eat strawberries, if he is not eating. I harassed him with strawberries and got no response. I finally harassed him enough that he opened his mouth and I got a little strawberry and sweet potato baby food in. He moved it around and swallowed. _Yeah_. The next time I got him to open his mouth I stuck a piece of grape leaf in his mouth. He chewed it a little and fell asleep with it hanging out. I gave him a minute then played with the grape leaf and he opened his mouth everytime I messed with the grape leaf. When he opened his mouth I stuck something in it - softened zoomed grassland tortoise food or greens. He actually ate a few bites, tiny but something. I also saw him drink when I soaked him in the sweet potato /water. So we are using the power of positive thinking and hoping he will be better after the vet. I am prepared though if he is not better I am positive but not naive. I am thinking Baytril/teramycin/possible fluids or force feeding? No real eating since at least Friday. I will update when I pick him up. (I still have to leave him as they have no appts available) 

Dawna


----------



## Yvonne G (Mar 19, 2009)

Hi Dawna: You are going in the right direction and doing just what has to be done to get this tortoise interested in living. I have always been of the school if its ill, leave it alone, but my sister does really well with babies and sick tortoises and her way of dealing with them is exactly what you are doing. Pester the heck out of them. My first thought when reading your story is that Jefferson has an upper respiratory infection. Because you normally can't get a desert tortoise to open his mouth on his own. I'm thinking he's opening his mouth because he's having trouble breathing. So going to the vet and getting a dose of antibiotics to administer over several days is the way to go for Jefferson. I wouldn't worry about force feeding just yet. Let the antibiotics do their thing for a week and then if he still shows no signs of wanting to eat, you can try the force feeding. But he's getting SOME nutrients from the baby food soaks, so all is not lost.

Yvonne


----------



## Maggie Cummings (Mar 20, 2009)

I personally would give him sub q fluids right away


----------



## galvinkaos (Mar 20, 2009)

Sorry I didn't update yesterday. Got home and my house computer was acting up so my laptop was being used for homework. Priorities.

I picked him up from the vet at 515. She was getting ready to tube feed him the second time so I requested to watch, which she had no problem with. The whole visit cost me alot more than my vet would have been but it was worth it. They kept him all day. They gave him fluids but they injected them into his stomach. They also fed him through a feeding tube in the am (and after I got there), gave a dewormer, liquid calcium and Vitamin D. They sent him home with a bottle of calcium syrup and syringes to feed "tube" him until I can get him to eat anything on his own. I was told to put him at a slight upward angle and dribble baby food and water into his mouth wait til he swallows and repeat. I used a blunt toothpick and pushed at the corner of his mouth until he opened up for me. *His eyes are open and no longer swollen today  *and he is feisty when I harrass him. So looking much better. She diagnosed no RI. Unfortunately it looks like dehydration and possible vitamin deficiency. His nose etc is good no bubbles or difficulty breathing. She wanted to keep him overnight to feed him today, but they have no overnight staff so I felt he was better at home where I could keep an eye on him. She said if I had any issues to bring him back immediately. She is off Sat-Tues but said if we come in she will come in on her day off for him. (He apparently has a way with women .) I fed him this evening water/Baby sweet potatoes and his calcium. She also said as much time in the real sun as possible and 90-95 in his table at all times. Also twice daily soakings in addition to the fluids by mouth.



emysemys said:


> Hi Dawna: You are going in the right direction and doing just what has to be done to get this tortoise interested in living. I have always been of the school if its ill, leave it alone, but my sister does really well with babies and sick tortoises and her way of dealing with them is exactly what you are doing. Pester the heck out of them. My first thought when reading your story is that Jefferson has an upper respiratory infection. Because you normally can't get a desert tortoise to open his mouth on his own. I'm thinking he's opening his mouth because he's having trouble breathing. So going to the vet and getting a dose of antibiotics to administer over several days is the way to go for Jefferson. I wouldn't worry about force feeding just yet. Let the antibiotics do their thing for a week and then if he still shows no signs of wanting to eat, you can try the force feeding. But he's getting SOME nutrients from the baby food soaks, so all is not lost.
> 
> Yvonne



Well, the vet said no infection at all that she could see just the vit def and dehydration. Probably was kept too cool to properly digest if he was eating. I have no way of knowing when he ate last. Maude could have been eating everything before I got him and no one would have noticed he wasn't eating. My friend leaves home at 530am and gets home at 530pm or later every night. I am pretty annoying and I kinda was mean and held him head down and upside down to get him to open his mouth. I now have a better method. The toothpick at the corner of the mouth works until it no longer annoys him enough.




maggie3fan said:


> I personally would give him sub q fluids right away



They did that and he has been drinking when I soak him. I am going to get other baby food veges besides carrots and sweet potatoes. Vet suggested squash too. What about peas?

Dawna

_*Jefferson is eating. Jefferson is eating. Jefferson is eating. WOOO HOOOO!!!!!!!*_

Sorry I got excited. He is eating on his own. Yahoooooo.

Dawna


----------



## Kristina (Mar 20, 2009)

That is great news, Dawna! I am rooting for him 

Kristina


----------



## galvinkaos (Mar 20, 2009)

My son came outside and said he was eating. I walked in doubting it and he had food hanging out of his mouth. I was so worried he wouldn't want to eat - that it was too much effort. I am happy, happy, happy.

Dawna


----------



## tortoisenerd (Mar 20, 2009)

Glad it wasn't anything too "serious"! You have a full tort menagerie now.


----------



## galvinkaos (Mar 20, 2009)

He was so bad I really thought he was not going to make it. Now we have lots of hope and it is all good now.

Dawna


----------



## Yvonne G (Mar 21, 2009)

No, not peas. They're not supposed to have legumes. In fact, keep watching him and if he's eating on his own, you might consider not harassing him with the forced feedings.

Yvonne


----------



## galvinkaos (Mar 21, 2009)

I won't if he keeps eating on his own. Thanks Yvonne.

Dawna


----------



## Kristina (Mar 21, 2009)

galvinkaos said:


> He was so bad I really thought he was not going to make it. Now we have lots of hope and it is all good now.
> 
> Dawna



I know exactly what you mean because I went through the same thing with Gwen. It is just so great when they respond, and you cross that hump where you know they are going to be okay.

Kristina


----------



## sharlan (Mar 29, 2009)

Please explain the sweet potato/water bath.


----------



## tortoisenerd (Mar 29, 2009)

For torts not eating, soaking them in nutrient rich water can both hydrate them and give them a little nutrients such as Vitamin A. The following quote from Yvonne explains it well:

"In the meantime, try soaking him in baby food water. I buy the Gerber brand strained carrots, squash or sweet potatoes because they have the highest Vit.a content. For a small tortoise I put a half a jar in a small high-sided container then stir in enough warm water to come up to the middle of the sides of the baby. Leave him soaking for about 15 minutes. They absorb some of the nutrients from the water through the thin skin under their neck and around the cloaca."


----------

