# Sulcata Tortoise not growing



## iLykeTuRtL3z

Im sorry, Im new and I thought I posted this before, but Im not sure it worked . . . . I'll try again. 

I have a year old sulcata that is ~5.6cm Straight length (shell only) 6 cm with head and tail and she weighs between 40-42 g. She had a little soft shell, that we are working on, the side are normal again only thing that is still "soft/thin" are the end spike on her shell in the near. She hasnt really grown since I got her, but she HAS grown. She eats nature zone tortoise bites (about 2 and a half cubes a day) mainly and I occasionally feed her fresh cut grass and dandelion greens, rose petals. Im wondering why shes not growing like the websites say ? Does she have parasites ? I have read one a couple Tortoise Forums that this happened to some people, and that their torts hit a growth spurt after a year. If at all possible I would like to avoid the vet because the only reptile vet in my area needs to be called into a vet office and he charges soooo much just to show up. Any help would be nice, thanks

I have a UVB light and her enclosure in a 4 foot by 2 foot tank for the winter, inside


----------



## jesst

I would get her checked for parasites. that would be the first thing to rule out if she is not gaining weight. Good luck


----------



## SulcataSquirt

Sounds like you need to add alot more variety to the tortoises diet. And the tortoise cubes? i dont know whats in them but iv never heard of them so i prolly wouldnt use tho since their is alot better choices out their. get your tort on a really good greens diet and then add in some mazuri tort diet every few days, your tort will be growing like a weed. Oh yeah hydration is key. soak em, spray em, just make sure your tort is well hydrated at all times.


----------



## yagyujubei

Are you letting her eat as much as she wants? I would try her on some soaked mazuri. How often do you offer food? For a yearling, she's way too small. Try soaking her in warm water before you feed. It stimulates the appetite. I feel it is very important that you get her to gain weight now. She cannot continue this way for long. Don't discontinue the cubes, at least for now, it may be the only thing keeping her alive. Don't let her get under 80 degrees ever. Try some rolled oats soaked in water. That might appeal to her. Be persistant.


----------



## Tom

When I see this, the first thing I want to know is how the tortoise was kept at the breeders, as a hatchling before you even got it. Do you know? Can you find out? I'll bet you it was on rabbit pellets, under a hot light, with no water bowl.

This might help explain your situation:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/Thread-Hatchling-Failure-Syndrome#axzz1gu1yirGP

Whatever the situation is, this will help:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/Thread-How-To-Raise-Sulcata-Hatchlings-and-Babies#axzz1gu1yirGP

BTW, My hatchlings come out of the egg that size. It makes me wonder if you got one of those odd ones that is hatches out super small. Every once in a while, a runt or one that just isn't "right" hatches out. I hope that is not the case with yours and that we can help.

... and hello and welcome to the forum.


----------



## Yvonne G

Hi iLykeTuRtL3z:

Welcome to the Tortoise Forum!!

May we know your name and where you are?

Sulcata babies usually won't eat grass or hay when they're babies. The best thing you can do for your baby's diet is store-bought dark, leafy greens. 

This is all I could find about the ingredients in what you're feeding:

"Soft, moist cactus pear flavored food with an orange color which tortoises are attracted to. This ready to eat food is fortified with calcium, vitamins, essential nutrients and has the fiber content tortoises need.
Natural ingredients.

Also a favorite of box turtles."

This is one of those pre-packaged, soft foods designed to get your money and not to aid in your tortoise's health. You've got to wean your tortoise off this food. Don't stop cold turkey, as the tortoise only recognizes this product as food and my not eat a healthier food.


----------



## Kristina

What is your hydration routine with her? Do you soak her? Does she have access to water, and how warm is your enclosure?

I'm thinking this is mostly diet related. You need a much more varied diet. I also would suggest in this case to get some Mazuri and feed it to her. It sounds like she needs the nutrition, plus if she is soft the D3 it contains will help. My babies that size can eat 3 pellets of soaked Mazuri PLUS a few pieces of spring mix in one sitting. You may not be feeding her enough. Greens should be fed daily, as the main part of the diet, not just occasionally. 

Here is an article on diet that may help you - http://www.tortoiseforum.org/Thread...ises-The-Balanced-Diet-Revealed#axzz1gu1yGqas

And here are some links for buying Mazuri.

http://www.tortoisesupply.com/products/Mazuri-Tortoise-Diet-%2d-2-Pounds.html

http://www.tortoiseforum.org/Thread-Mazuri-Diet-for-your-Tort-Babies--37056#axzz1guCUTy00

http://www.tortoiseforum.org/Thread-Mazuri-Tortoise-Cactus-Pads-NEW#axzz1guCUTy00

Welcome to the forum! The reason that your post did not show up right away is that we approve the first five posts you make when you join. When you post again, if you don't see it right away, just be patient and one of the moderators will approve it for you


----------



## nikki0601

Can u post a recent pic? And how long have u had your tort?


----------



## iLykeTuRtL3z

I soak her about everyday, or try too, average between 5-6 times a week.

This is what I feed her, http://www.petco.com/product/12501/Nature-Zone-Tortoise-Bites.aspx

She usually eats like 3 cubes and then doesnt want anymore


----------



## iLykeTuRtL3z

Oh, Do they sell that Mazuri at Petco or Petsmart ?? I can go get some now If they do.


----------



## Kristina

Unfortunately, they don't. You can usually order it at any "feed store" (or livestock supply store) that carries Purina products. You can also order it directly from Mazuri. http://shop.mazuri.com/


----------



## iLykeTuRtL3z

Ok, Im going to get her some Mazuri and im going to the store right now to get her some mustard and collard greens ( I thought these stopped calcium absorption, thats why I didnt feed her these).

Are any of these better choices that The tortoise bites ??

http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754049

http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752176

http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752592

http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=11147188


----------



## nikki0601

This is what I would do of I were u.. Read Toms thread on raising sulcatas and tweak your setup if needed.. Follow his care sheet directly and also try to give your tort as much space as possible, in my opinion Sulcatas tend not to do well in small enclosures, if keeping in an aqarium I'd go with at least a 40 gallon... This is just my opinion, I'm not very experienced but have done my homework and so far have raised a very healthy Sully.. As for my experience, have had my Sully a couple months, he weighed what yours does now when I got him, since I have had him he gains 2-3 grams per week, what I buy for his food is this, Dole spring mix, it has a variety of baby greens, no spinach, along with that I purchase a large head of green leaf, head of red leaf, turnip greens, kale, and romaine.. I give him a different variety daily, I also go pick grasses, clover and dandelion from the yard.. it is kinda expensive to buy all those greens but they do last a while if u keep picking out any pieces that start going bad, I've also learnt that my greens stay fresher when left in the bag rather than putting em in plastic containers.. Like I said with this diet and following Toms care sheet my Sully is gaining weight and thriving , and he is a happy little tortoise.. Hope this has been somw help, would love to see pica of your little one


----------



## Yvonne G

Actually, nothing is better than fresh greens. Can you pick some weeds from outside? I usually start with a bag of Spring Mix. This is a bag of baby greens of different varieties. To that I'll add edible plants from outside...mullberry leaves, grape leaves, dandilion leaves, etc. If you can't find anything outside, then the Spring Mix is fine on its own. 

Of all those links posted in your last post, the Zoo Med Grassland tortoise mixture would be best, but even that one is not good as the staple in your tortoise's diet.


----------



## Kristina

I agree with Yvonne. If you want to use Mazuri or The Grassland, that is fine, but neither should ever be fed as the largest part of the diet. Wild tortoises don't have someone following them around, giving them pellets. The main part of the diet should be weeds, grasses, and leafy greens.

I would start with some spring mix, which you can at just about any grocery store. The pellets should be given only 1-2 times a week. 

As far as stopping calcium absorption - don't over think it. As long as you feed a varied diet, your tortoise will be fine. You can give your tortoise just about any green that the grocery store carries. I avoid iceberg lettuce and suggest that you do as well, but even romaine is okay once in a while.


----------



## iLykeTuRtL3z

Ok, I'm switching her diet TODAY, slowly, but shes usually good at eating new things. Thanks everyone for your help. I'll start the switch today and I'll see how she is doing Mid January.

1 more question . . . How fast should I expect her to gain weight if it is not parasite related ??


----------



## nikki0601

Far as I have read all tortoises grow at different rates, even ones of the same species and from the same clutch.. U should weigh your tortoise weekly and under the same conditions each time, for example at the same time and day each week before his soak.. Rather its 1 or 3 grams gain each week there should be some, I weigh my Sully each Tuesday before his evening soak, he is averaging a gain of 2-3 grams per week


----------



## iLykeTuRtL3z

Ok, I bought some Kale today, I'll get the ZOO MEDâ„¢ Food for Grassland Tortoises some time this week and I will search for some Mazuri as well.

It was nice outside today so I took her outside for like 3 hours in the sun, she ate some kale and dandelion greens

Ive been weighing her like everyday for like 3 weeks, shes always 40-42g


----------



## iLykeTuRtL3z

How much should she be eating ?

Also forgot to ask, How long should she take to completely harden up? she wasn't that squishy, the sides were barely noticeable, but the bottom of her shell is still slightly pushable, not much though.


----------



## iLykeTuRtL3z

Ok, So I found a place that orders from Mazuri, but do you guys think that I should buy something that has a lower protein level first to kind of "build up" my tort first, and then buy the mazuri ? Would the high nutrition of the Mazuri be too much for her to handle right now??


----------



## Kristina

Just feed less. The Mazuri needs to be soaked in warm water to soften it before it can be fed. Just start by soaking one pellet and feeding half of it daily.


----------



## iLykeTuRtL3z

Shes gaining weight !! She doesnt like everything in the spring mix . ..Is that fine ? I have another question. . . the back of the shell is still very pliable, I give her calcium and shes outside in the sun for like 4 hours a day, and the rest in the shade. So, is she getting enough sun ? How is the shell supposed to harden ?? How long should it take for it to harden up completely ??

Thanks for your help <3


----------



## DeanS

Sounds like everything is progressing nicely. The shell can take a while to harden. Add opuntia (prickly pear cactus) pads to her diet. You can chop it up in a food processor! Try Doris Carter...she sells the ONLY true spineless I've seen...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/5-CACTUS-PA...672?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4aa2e19520

Another excellent source of Calcium is cuttlebone...you can grind that up to and put it in your little one's food!


----------



## iLykeTuRtL3z

DeanS said:


> Sounds like everything is progressing nicely. The shell can take a while to harden. Add opuntia (prickly pear cactus) pads to her diet. You can chop it up in a food processor! Try Doris Carter...she sells the ONLY true spineless I've seen...
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/5-CACTUS-PA...672?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4aa2e19520
> 
> Another excellent source of Calcium is cuttlebone...you can grind that up to and put it in your little one's food!



Can I just buy the ones they sell at Food4Less and take off the spines ?? My grandma eats these and Im sure she'll teach me how to remove the spines.
Oh ! and what will the cactus do ? WIll it help the shell harden ??


----------



## DeanS

You're better off with fresh grown...that stuff at food for less and all the Mexican markets have been sitting around...this is the BEST source of fiber after grass and weeds...and has the perfect calciumhosporous ratio...as long as it's FRESH! And you can feed it EVERYDAY!


----------



## iLykeTuRtL3z

ok, I got the nursery people at Lowes to order me a plant . .. . 3 weeks though. .ugh


----------



## tortiechik

I was thinking I saw a post somewhere from someone who sells the pear pads online and was going to order some (ours are all frozen outside now). I cant find that old post though. If anybody know of a good place online to order the prickly pear pads, let me know!


----------



## Maggie Cummings

There's 4 important things involved in growing a healthy Sulcata. 1. Strong UVB...you've been taking her outside so that's good. 2. exercise. In the wild Sulcata walk for miles getting food to eat. They take a bite here and a bite there for miles. I make an exercise area for my small tortoises so I can take them out of their habitat and put them in the exercise area so they can play. They climb over rocks and walk under branches. It's fun for them and fun for me to watch them. 3. A good diet. Feed a good varied diet and she'll grow like crazy. Fresh greens and green grass and weeds, dandelions and stuff like that is best. Mazuri is a good "supplement", feed softened Mazuri twice a week with the greens, and 4. Hydration, soak in warm water daily for about 15 minutes. If they are going to drink they will do it in the first 10 minutes in the water. Mostly you can tell when they're done as they start trying to climb out. Some like to drink then soak quietly.
That's my way of growing healthy tortoises. Keep to that example and you can't go wrong.


----------



## jaizei

tortiechik said:


> I was thinking I saw a post somewhere from someone who sells the pear pads online and was going to order some (ours are all frozen outside now). I cant find that old post though. If anybody know of a good place online to order the prickly pear pads, let me know!



http://www.tortoiseforum.org/Thread-Mazuri-Tortoise-Cactus-Pads-NEW#axzz1iRWLK2Yu


----------



## iLykeTuRtL3z

How do I know she is eating enough ? She eats like 3 -5 leaves from the spring mix ( or similar sized pieces of Collard greens or Kale) and I still give her like of those tortoise bites, just to make sure she eats something that day . . .and cuz I just dont want to throw them away  . . 


Is that enough ?? Shes only gained like 2g


----------



## Baoh

That seems like a little (3-5 leaves from spring mix and one treat) to me, but I am just going by my tortoises.

I second cactus and mazuri. I would try other nutrient-dense foods, too, but those two are generally reliable.

2g, but at what rate? Over how many days did it take for the 2g to be added? Intestinal contents can induce great variance, too, that can mask the smaller gains and losses.


----------



## iLykeTuRtL3z

Baoh said:


> That seems like a little (3-5 leaves from spring mix and one treat) to me, but I am just going by my tortoises.
> 
> I second cactus and mazuri. I would try other nutrient-dense foods, too, but those two are generally reliable.
> 
> 2g, but at what rate? Over how many days did it take for the 2g to be added? Intestinal contents can induce great variance, too, that can mask the smaller gains and losses.



Its more like 3- 5 spring mix leaves and 3 -4 tortoise cubes, I only give her the tortoise bites when she doesn't want to eat anymore spring mix so I break out he tortoise bites; they are also a way from me to give her calcium because I roll them around in it, My tortoise REFUSES to eat the spring mix if she sees the white of the calcium, but if it's on the tortoise bites, she will attack them.

It took like 2 weeks for her to gain the weight

What other "nutrient-dense foods" should I try ? what do you all recommend ?


----------



## ShadowRancher

It sounds like you have a great transition going, the only thing I would do is lay off the tortoise cubes, maybe only one or two rolled in Calcium. I know you want your baby to eat but you could probably get more spring mix in her after a couple days of fewer cubes. Levi's breeder gave me something similar and I've decided that they are like tortoise candy, not bad in small doses and tasty, but not good for any real nutrition. But if it gets her to eat calcium that's good, sounds like her shell needs it. And you said she's spending about 4hrs a day outside? She's probably eating yummy weeds in your lawn too, I know Levi never eats much after he's been out. 

OHH and have you tried a cuttlefish bone? Mine loves to naw on his so it's a good source of calcium and a built in beak trimmer.


----------



## iLykeTuRtL3z

ShadowRancher said:


> It sounds like you have a great transition going, the only thing I would do is lay off the tortoise cubes, maybe only one or two rolled in Calcium. I know you want your baby to eat but you could probably get more spring mix in her after a couple days of fewer cubes. Levi's breeder gave me something similar and I've decided that they are like tortoise candy, not bad in small doses and tasty, but not good for any real nutrition. But if it gets her to eat calcium that's good, sounds like her shell needs it. And you said she's spending about 4hrs a day outside? She's probably eating yummy weeds in your lawn too, I know Levi never eats much after he's been out.
> 
> OHH and have you tried a cuttlefish bone? Mine loves to naw on his so it's a good source of calcium and a built in beak trimmer.



Yes she spend about 4hr average in the sun, from about 10am - 2pm. Then I put her in a turtle pen that is under a tree, so shes shaded until like 4pm-5pm then I bring her back inside. I don't think she eats anything while shes out, I don't really have weeds, and shes so small that she cant rip the grass that she bites on.

I had some cuttlebone that i bought in bulk for my parakeets and gave her a chunk, she doesn't seem interested in it.

One question this time, I have been reading mixed reviews on Dandelions, Some say the prevent calcium from being absorbed, and others say its good; which is it ?? I don't want to give it to her if it stops calcium from being absorbed because of her shell


----------



## Yvonne G

Hi iLykeTuRtL3z:

This is why we always say feed a nice variety of greens. If you feed a variety, then it doesn't really matter that dandelion greens are high in oxalates. But you should know which greens are high in oxalates so you don't always use those in your "wide variety."


----------



## Baoh

iLykeTuRtL3z said:


> Baoh said:
> 
> 
> 
> That seems like a little (3-5 leaves from spring mix and one treat) to me, but I am just going by my tortoises.
> 
> I second cactus and mazuri. I would try other nutrient-dense foods, too, but those two are generally reliable.
> 
> 2g, but at what rate? Over how many days did it take for the 2g to be added? Intestinal contents can induce great variance, too, that can mask the smaller gains and losses.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Its more like 3- 5 spring mix leaves and 3 -4 tortoise cubes, I only give her the tortoise bites when she doesn't want to eat anymore spring mix so I break out he tortoise bites; they are also a way from me to give her calcium because I roll them around in it, My tortoise REFUSES to eat the spring mix if she sees the white of the calcium, but if it's on the tortoise bites, she will attack them.
> 
> It took like 2 weeks for her to gain the weight
> 
> What other "nutrient-dense foods" should I try ? what do you all recommend ?
Click to expand...


I like to give them turnip greens better than spring mix. I think that maybe the more intense scent is more attractive to them. I prefer giving Mazuri sprinkled with Minerall to most other treats. Rabbit food pellets can also work if the animal will consume it. For more extreme caloric density, I have had good results with giving tortoises avocado. A little goes a long way, but I would not limit it initially if an underweight animal is willing to consume a larger amount of it. If you really wanted to get a nice mix for growth, you could create a mixture from avocado, Mazuri, Minerall, protein powder (soy or whey should be fine), and a probiotic capsule's contents. The last item tends to improve feed efficiency. I would use one with a variety of organism types (and not acidophilus alone) so that the possibility of several colonizing or the "best" one colonizing could occur. Mix them all into a tacky mush and see if the tortoise will eat it. If so, I would let it eat to satisfaction and stop giving the treats/bites. You may need to experiment with the amounts of ingredients in the mix, but it probably will not change anything too much unless you go to the extreme with any particular supplemental ingredient. I would also sprinkle chia seeds all over the enclosure on moist substrate. My babies tend to nibble the tops off of the sprouts in random bites as they roam. I would only do baby food soaks until growth rate and eating habits improve and then transition to typical water soaks.

What is the variability on your balance/scale (it should be listed somewhere on the balance or in its manual)? If it is genuine growth, then anything is better than nothing in this case, but that is much slower than any of my current animals. Despite most sulcatas being quick-growing future monsters, there are occasionally outlying animals that are on the left tail of the bell curve. I had a dwarf weirdo once. He ate like crazy, had no detectable parasites, was well hydrated, and well supplemented. The very slight growth he had was normal in appearance. Cases like his are quite uncommon, though.

Also, it takes quite some time for the animal to harden to the point of not flexing if pressed and will be a function of size gained in addition to mineralization. A small plate of steel flexes in my hand when pressed, too. I would stop applying that sort of stress to the animal. I think it does not add anything positive.


----------



## tortiechik

jaizei said:


> http://www.tortoiseforum.org/Thread-Mazuri-Tortoise-Cactus-Pads-NEW#axzz1iRWLK2Yu



Thanks!


----------



## iLykeTuRtL3z

I have a question, she ( my tortoise) has be dropping a lot of urates when I soak her, She has done it probably like 4 times now. It seems like way too much to come out of such a little body ! I soak her everyday, most of the times 2 times a day, sometimes even 3. She drinks sometimes so I think she is hydrated. I give her calcium everyday, Is that just the extra getting flushed out ??

IS that normal ??


----------



## iLykeTuRtL3z

Anyone . . . . She did It again so I stopped offering as much calcium to see if that would stop it


----------

