# Wall height?



## Macheteslaststep (Aug 23, 2010)

Is 11" too low for an adult leopard tortoise wall height? I found bookshelves at Ikea that would make awesome new enclosures, but they're only 11" deep. Or maye I could add another 6-10" of plexiglass to the walls to make them a bit deeper? The bookshelves are only $60 each and I would need two, but that would probably still save me money versus me doing it myself 

If the plexiglass is a good idea to add, it is hard to do? I've never worked with it.

Saranna


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## Yvonne G (Aug 23, 2010)

My rule of thumb is to stand the tortoise on his back feet on another tortoise's back, or on something that you have in the habitat and reach him up to the top of the wall. If he can reach it and get his toes over the edge, its not tall enough.

In my case, a bit of 1/2" plywood would work better than plexi, because I always split the plexi when I try to drill it.


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## ekm5015 (Aug 23, 2010)

How big are the bookshelves? If you are going to house an adult leopard they should be very big! I would probably make the walls at least 18'' for an adult. Plexi glass can crack very easily when you start drilling and its kind of expensive compared to wood.


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## chairman (Aug 23, 2010)

People who work professionally with plexiglass will tell you how easy it is to work with. That's because they have lots of practice and all sorts of cool tools and jigs. However, I have used the stuff to make a couple tortoise enclosures at home, and plexi isn't that terrible to deal with. 
I would recommend using 1/4" plexi. It is more expensive than the thin stuff, but doesn't shatter or crack as easily when you're trying to work with it. It also won't flex very much, which means your tortoise won't be able to pop open your corner seams as easily as it could with a thinner sheet of plexi.
I would recommend letting the store you buy it from cut it for you; they usually do it for free. Otherwise, table saws with ceramic tile blades work great on plexi. Placing a strip of tape along the cut line (before you cut!) can help you have a cleaner cut edge. If you're going to try the score and snap approach, use a fresh utility blade and sandwich the plexi between two boards (held together with c-clamps) right at the score line- it is your best bet for a clean break. I'd also recommend trying a glass/window place before a home improvement store. They frequently sell plexi cheaper than the chains do.
I would also recommend that you use a sheet of plexi that is as tall as you want the final product to be. That way the plexi can sit on the floor and you only need to secure it against your tortoise, not tortoise with a well-placed fulcrum (top edge of bookcase). If you install it full height, all you need is aquarium silicone to adhere it to the inside walls of the bookcase.
If you feel the need to also screw it in place, I would recommend using either a drill press with new, sharp bit (best), a dremmel-style tool with engraving bit (better), or a hand drill with new bit (only for people with really steady hands). If using a drill, go nice and slow and let the bit do all the work. Don't apply too much downward pressure. If using the dremmel attachment, you're not really drilling as much as you are melting away unwanted material. Go slow, be patient. With the screws, make sure to use a screw with a nice, large head, or use a wide washer. Combining both wouldn't be a bad idea.
To finish off the job, chair rail can be cut to make a frame to set over the top edge of the plexi. This'll give you a nice bit of wood to screw supports for lights and whatnot into, and will give the whole project a more finished look. Especially if you can stain/seal the wood to match the bookcase.


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## Laura (Aug 23, 2010)

great ideas and explanation Mike.. Build Much!


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## travisgn (Aug 23, 2010)

I built my first enclosure with walls that were too short - with the substrate my tortoise is actually slightly longer than the walls are tall. But since tortoises can't stand up without using the wall or something in the enclosure, I just put a 2" lip around the whole thing. That's for a russian, though, you'd want to scale up accordingly for something bigger. I would go taller if I built another one, but a slight lip is basically impenetrable to a tortoise.  That said, I don't think an 11" wall would hold an adult leopard, lip or not.

Also, are the bookcases real wood, or particle board? Everything seems like particle board these days, and I think you'd run into additional problems using it instead of wood. I'm not sure if anybody here has had success with particle board, but I'd be concerned about it absorbing moisture and the overall durability.


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## Macheteslaststep (Aug 23, 2010)

The bookshelves are 6 1/2 feet by 2 1/2 feet. By full grown I mean right now they're 8 inches and almost 6 inches so hopefully at least a couple of years use. They are particle board, but I was going to put plywood on the bottom along with a shower curtain liner that will be halfway up the walls at least. 

No one in my immediate family is building savvy - so I figured if I could buy something and only make a couple changes - it would be worth it lol.

Saranna

P.S. - I was thinking plexi as more of an asthetic point of view


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## samstar (Aug 23, 2010)

Hi Saranna,
I think we are both looking at buying the same book shelf from Ikea, Billy bookcase article #10180109??


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## Macheteslaststep (Aug 24, 2010)

It is a Billy, but not the same item number. Although, I am in the US - so the numbers may definately be different 

"I would also recommend that you use a sheet of plexi that is as tall as you want the final product to be. That way the plexi can sit on the floor and you only need to secure it against your tortoise, not tortoise with a well-placed fulcrum (top edge of bookcase). If you install it full height, all you need is aquarium silicone to adhere it to the inside walls of the bookcase."

This may be the best option. It would protect the partical board better, and I don't need to get my dad or fiance involved - I can silicone myself lol. Will the silicone really hold that well though? Or should I use something like superglue? I was also thinking about adding trim to the top edges of the plexi to make it thicker for the clamp lamps to hold onto. I guess I can glue that on too though if I want?

Saranna


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## samstar (Aug 24, 2010)

Thanks! I am now in between building an outdoor enclosure in my garden or the Ikea table....


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## chairman (Aug 24, 2010)

Macheteslaststep said:


> Will the silicone really hold that well though? Or should I use something like superglue? I was also thinking about adding trim to the top edges of the plexi to make it thicker for the clamp lamps to hold onto. I guess I can glue that on too though if I want?



The silicone will hold it in place. I recommend silicone because the aquarium variety (and a couple drinking water varieties) are non-toxic once dry. Other adhesives could be used, just keep the glue away from the edges and really let it air out before the tortoises are introduced. Also, if you want to use a superglue-like adhesive, do a test spot first; some strong polymer-based adhesives can dissolve acrylic. The top edges can also be held on with silicone. At one time I had a 2' x 4' tortoise table made out of plexiglass (walls and floor) with all of the pieces held together with silicone at the edges. Each corner had a metal bracket screwed into it and the top/bottom had moulding held in place with silicone. I accidentally dropped my 16', 80# canoe on the enclosure (long story short, I kept a canoe behind my couch in an apartment...) and the only damage sustained was a couple pieces of cracked moulding. The silicone held the broken pieces in place for another couple years after that.

And just a friendly reminder, when you're getting the store employees to cut the plexi for you, remember that the pieces need to fit inside one another... I wish I could think of a better way to explain it, but if your table is going to be 6.5' by 5', then you're going to need sides that are 6.5' and ends that are 4'11.5". Or in that neighborhood. Err a tiny bit (1/32") on the short side, because misaligned edges can be hidden with moulding and filled with silicone, where if you go too long the employees at the store may not have the equipment necessary to remove that last 1/8" you really wish weren't there.


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## beekeeper65 (Aug 25, 2010)

Hi Everyone! This is my first post on this forum. I joined about 2 months ago and have been lurking and learning. I'm planning on getting a Russian in a few months so this forum and the Russian Tort forum have been a great resource for me..

Anyway - what Mike (Chairman) posted above concerning working with acrylic (plexiglas) is "spot on" as they say..I've worked for a plastics fabrication company for the last 14 years and I just want to add a few points about working with this material. 

First - as Mike mentioned above be careful when figuring your cuts. A common mistake I have seen made is most folks do not realize plexi / acrylic runs UNDERSIZE on its thickness. For example 1/4" material doesn't actually measure .250" - it measures .220". By figuring that .030" into the equation the 1/32" Mike mentions above can be avoided. Most people skilled in cutting this material can cut into within +/-.010" which will make for some nice aligned edges. As mentioned - have a glass shop cut it. You will end up with nicer edges..

Second - many hobby stores sell glue specifically for acrylic. Syringe apllicators work GREAT for getting neat edges with no mess..

Third - do NOT clean acrylic with any ammonia based products like Windex, etc. After a few times it causes the plexi to have a haze - it "clouds" it over. Clean plexi with either vinegar and water (50-50%) , Isopropyl and water (50-50%) or just water and detergent soap like Dawn. I've seen people buy plexi storm door replacements - only to come back a year or so later complaining the material was defective..also make sure to use a soft cloth when cleaning as it will scratch.

Mike's observations about drilling with a new sharp drill is important. Dull blades will cause the plastic to melt and stick to the bit. Make sure the piece is adequately supported form underneath. Clamp it down if necessary. 

Great forum here! 

Regards,
Jon


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## Yvonne G (Aug 25, 2010)

Hi Jon:

Welcome to the forum, and thanks so much for the plexi insight!


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## Madkins007 (Aug 25, 2010)

My nickels worth would be to skip plexi/Acrylic totally and go for 'Polycarbonate' (Lexan is one brand name). It is tougher in many ways than plexy- you can drill it and cut it almost like wood, and it is stronger than the same thickness plexi.

The downsides are it scratches easily, maybe even easier than plexi, and it costs more.


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