# Pink plastron normal?



## KimandKarasi (Jun 15, 2012)

I have been taking my tortoise to the vet almost every 3 days for the past 2 months, and it's aggravating that her pink plastron the vet was initially worried about STILL hasn't gotten better.. They keep injecting her (in the skin between her arm and head) with antibiotics, but the pinkness is still there. Finally I told them I couldn't afford to bring her back anymore, I'm already 3 thousand down just from the vet visits.. They also had given me this stuff called "Novasan" (I think that's how you spell it, it's this blue liquid I'm supposed to dilute in water and soak her for 5-10 minutes..) but this morning I looked at her plastron and it almost seems even more red than before.. Is all this futile? I mean her appetite is fine, her eyes are clear (they seem to swell up and itch when she's in that blue stuff, but not even 20 minutes after she's out they go back to normal.), and her activity level is great, I just worry because it's so pink... Then I read on here the lines are sometimes pink because of growth, which she definitely has grown a LOT lately.. So I guess I just want some opinions..


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## Eweezyfosheezy (Jun 15, 2012)

Looks like growth to me Kim.


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## yagyujubei (Jun 15, 2012)

It is perfectly normal.


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## KimandKarasi (Jun 15, 2012)

In that case should I change vets for telling me it was an issue and charging an arm and a leg for something that didn't exist?


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## reticguy76 (Jun 15, 2012)

Id get a second opinion from a reptile/amphibian (or overall exotics) vet. Assuming he or she will tell you its fine, then have them fax the records to the original vet for their records. When they call you to follow up, you can verbally tell them, you dont wish to use them anymore (+/- explain why) and have them fax their record they have, to the new vet.


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## dmmj (Jun 15, 2012)

+Normally a pink plastron could indicate septicemia, but in this case I think it is normal looking, especially since he is growing and eating. I hate to say but I think your vet is either inexperienced, or sold you some snake oil.


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## Tom (Jun 15, 2012)

Do you feed Mazuri? I've seen them get pinkish between the plates like that if they sit in their Mazuri and then rest on damp substrate all the time. I always soak them after Mazuri feedings and give the plastron a good hand rubbing and squirt down after the end of the soak.

What substrate do you use? How damp is it? Can you tell us what her last few weights have been so we can get an idea of how fast she's growing? What are her four temps? Warm side, cool side, basking spot and night? What do you use for night heat? And finally, how many hours a day does she get to be outside in the sunshine?


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## Laura (Jun 15, 2012)

also,, soaking in Nolvasan.. hmmm I'd worry they would drink it. sponging it on and letting dry would be ok.. but what I see is growth lines as well.. 
I think you need to change vets or maybe educate that other one, nicely.. and maybe get a few Free visits!


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## dmarcus (Jun 15, 2012)

I say a new vet is in yours and your tort's furture...


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## dmmj (Jun 15, 2012)

3000 for what looks like a healthy tortoise is criminal IMHO.


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## reticguy76 (Jun 15, 2012)

Wow, I missed that part about down 3k from the vet. Im in veterinary medicine and that is just outrageous. Either they are waaaaaayyyyyy overpriced in general or they just assumed you would follow what they "know" and keep treatment. 

Go to another vet, or better yet, post of the torts history (when everything started, how it started, basically everything that the vet went on from you), many great and knowledgable people here in this forum

and dont soak the tort anymore in the nolvasan solution. dont even know why the vet told you to do that. when you soak reptiles, even if they dont drink, the other way they get hydrated is through their cloaca. you dont want nolvason in the tort at all. at most, you would gently dab nolvasan with guaze on/around the infected area.


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## KimandKarasi (Jun 15, 2012)

reticguy76 said:


> Wow, I missed that part about down 3k from the vet. Im in veterinary medicine and that is just outrageous. Either they are waaaaaayyyyyy overpriced in general or they just assumed you would follow what they "know" and keep treatment.
> 
> Go to another vet, or better yet, post of the torts history (when everything started, how it started, basically everything that the vet went on from you), many great and knowledgable people here in this forum
> 
> and dont soak the tort anymore in the nolvasan solution. dont even know why the vet told you to do that. when you soak reptiles, even if they dont drink, the other way they get hydrated is through their cloaca. you dont want nolvason in the tort at all. at most, you would gently dab nolvasan with guaze on/around the infected area.





She told me it was completely safe in case she drank it (her reason being they always give it to birds in their water..), but I still worried about how puffy her eyes got when she was in it... The 3k was from a continued visit every three days at 150 bucks a pop because ahe's and exotic, even though it IS an exotic pet hospital! And she's supposed to be a professional!! She owns all kinds of herps and birds, but not tortoises. When she spoke to me she sounded like she really knew what she was doing, and has a few other large tortoise owners that come to her, but when I actually did my own research,(which is what brought me to this wonderful site ) she just seems a bit... Wrong... :-/ And Tom, I'm actually not sure about her temps because she's now in an outside enclosure (speaking of which do they need a basking light in this Texas heat? I was thinking if anything she needs a fan on one side. ) so it's just regular grass and weeds, regular Houston humidity (I sprayed the water hose all around the grass today thinking she needed more humidity, which really I'm not sure if that was the right thing to do either..), and from 9am to 3pm she gets direct sunlight. I have been giving her mazuri lately, even though she has never laid in it.. I've been giving her normal warm water soaks twice a day just to help with hydration and keep pyramiding away. And the last few times he went to the vet he gained 10 grams give or take every time.. I'm not sure of her weight now


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## Laura (Jun 15, 2012)

Nolvasan in a birds water? hmmmm
No you don't need a basking light if outside and its warm. if it was cold, you would need a heat source in a shed or something.. Pig Blanket or CHE.. 

there is a lot of talk about using in Birds water to control bacteria.. there are pros/cons and people saying other things are better to use.. hmmm


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## tyrs4u (Jun 15, 2012)

Gorgeous growth lines...


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## tobyandlydiaâ¤ (Jun 16, 2012)

Yeah im no expert but that doesnt look like an ill tortoise


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## Tom (Jun 16, 2012)

She dosen't need basking light outside as long as temps are warm and sunny each day. Does she have a heated night house? I like to keep little ones warm at night. I use a thermostat and set the night box heaters at 80. This is especially important in a humid area like Houston. When they're bigger, they can tolerate lower temps with a lower probability of problems, but there is just no reason to not be cautious with a little one.

What did your vet diagnose this tortoise with? What "ailment" did she tell you you are treating for? And Nolvasan in bird water? What?


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## x-sully-x (Jun 16, 2012)

I would also go with growth lines... I have seen these on my tort... I am no expert though, but the peeps on here will have some fantastic advice up their sleeves


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## KimandKarasi (Jun 16, 2012)

Tom said:


> She dosen't need basking light outside as long as temps are warm and sunny each day. Does she have a heated night house? I like to keep little ones warm at night. I use a thermostat and set the night box heaters at 80. This is especially important in a humid area like Houston. When they're bigger, they can tolerate lower temps with a lower probability of problems, but there is just no reason to not be cautious with a little one.
> 
> What did your vet diagnose this tortoise with? What "ailment" did she tell you you are treating for? And Nolvasan in bird water? What?



She just said it was an infection, there was no real name for it....  and sometimes I wonder if it's actually too hot for her during the day..


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## Itort (Jun 16, 2012)

The tort looks perfectly normal to me. For three grand the vet should be able to give you a specific infection after sending blood work to university herp vet. I assume at this price bloodwork was done.


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## KimandKarasi (Jun 16, 2012)

Itort said:


> The tort looks perfectly normal to me. For three grand the vet should be able to give you a specific infection after sending blood work to university herp vet. I assume at this price bloodwork was done.



.... I feel more like an idiot the more I think about it and read these comments.. Maybe I have sucker written all over me? Each visit was 180 dollars because she is an exotic (100), she would get a shot (50), and she would give me that little bottle of 3 doses of nolvasan (30) to tide me over until the next visit.. And since the pinkness never went away she kept asking me to come back.. They did a stool sample on our first visit and said there was no parasites, but that was the only thing beside the afore mentioned that they would do, but I went for so long it added up quick... That upsets me enough to really nit want to go back, but they were such sweet people.. But for them to charge me like that and not even know what they claim to be professionals in?? I'm too upset for words..


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## bigred (Jun 16, 2012)

KimandKarasi said:


> Tom said:
> 
> 
> > She dosen't need basking light outside as long as temps are warm and sunny each day. Does she have a heated night house? I like to keep little ones warm at night. I use a thermostat and set the night box heaters at 80. This is especially important in a humid area like Houston. When they're bigger, they can tolerate lower temps with a lower probability of problems, but there is just no reason to not be cautious with a little one.
> ...



She needs alot of plants and shade on one end of the enclosure and a spray with water will do good when hot


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## KimandKarasi (Jun 17, 2012)

bigred said:


> She needs alot of plants and shade on one end of the enclosure and a spray with water will do good when hot



I put in a pretty big hibiscus where theres really no shade, but the thing about the spot is it's between my house and our fence, so the sun hits the grass fully from about 8am-2:30pm, then it's completely shade for the rest of the day, but as we know around that time here in Texas can get around the 95-100 mark, so I'm going to throw in some shrubbery if I can. Any advice on which plants would be good for that amount of sunlight?
And Tom, I weighed her this morning and she's gained 25 grams in two weeks!

View attachment 22671


There she is hiding in the tall grass 


View attachment 22669


And that's the entire thing, it's actually 2:30pm right now here so I guess there is still sun on the ground until maybe 4pm?


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## KimandKarasi (Jun 17, 2012)

Did The pictures show up? It doesn't look like they did to me..
I had to take a new one because the last ones didn't save, she's hanging out in her shallow water  she knows she's cool, lol..


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## reticguy76 (Jun 19, 2012)

put the nolvasan in bird bath water, and its an infection, but no real name for it ?? !! 

thats killin me ! that vet has no idea what the hell theyre talking about. run from that vet and find a legitimate one for your tort. your tort looks good and healthy and happy.


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## KimandKarasi (Jun 19, 2012)

reticguy76 said:


> put the nolvasan in bird bath water, and its an infection, but no real name for it ?? !!
> 
> thats killin me ! that vet has no idea what the hell theyre talking about. run from that vet and find a legitimate one for your tort. your tort looks good and healthy and happy.



Thank you very much  I almost want to ask for my money back, but I know that never usually goes over well... Would it hurt to try though? :-/ I'm pretty torn up about it too..


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## reticguy76 (Jun 20, 2012)

We get people tryin to get their money back from my clinic all the time. Doesnt usually work though, but no harm in trying. Worse case, you have made them aware that they lack reptile/amphibian medicine knowledge and will hopefully refer to someone more qualified when approached with reptiles and amphibians.
Unless there is a direct problem, sickness or injury to your animal as a result of improper care or mal-practice by the veterinary or any of their staff, you probably wont receive any compensation for lack of knowledge. However, should your tort develp any issues that can be directly related to the vets treatment and recommendations for home treatment (ie, soaking all those times in nolvasan), then you should formally complain to your states veterinary board committee


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## wellington (Jun 20, 2012)

So sorry for your ordeal. I used to work for a vet a few years ago. Money usually isn't given back. However, I would try. Even if it is to give you some satisfaction and to let them know, that you know, they know nothing! You have all the advice on this forum to back you up. Even though they won't take it as expert advice, some vets are really stuck on themselves, sounds like this one is, it could sure give you a point to prove to them. Tell them you won't be back and you will let everyone you know that they ripped you off and they are unkownledgeable about many animals. Returning every three days is insane. There isn't too many illnesses, if any, that needs to be seen every three days, in any animal. What ever you decide to do. I would not let them off the hook. I would say something to them, before just walking away. They need to be told. I also would call your states vet boards and report them. Good luck. Now for your enclosure, you do need a lot more shade. Some Hostas do fairly well in a lot of sun and gives good shade. Also day lilies. Even a plastic light coloed planter box turned upside down and a entry hole cut in and a few vent holes at the top will work. I would also sink a plant saucer in the shade so he can soak himself and maybe some plain black dirt that you could make a mud hole for him to cool off. Good luck


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## KimandKarasi (Jun 20, 2012)

wellington said:


> So sorry for your ordeal. I used to work for a vet a few years ago. Money usually isn't given back. However, I would try. Even if it is to give you some satisfaction and to let them know, that you know, they know nothing! You have all the advice on this forum to back you up. Even though they won't take it as expert advice, some vets are really stuck on themselves, sounds like this one is, it could sure give you a point to prove to them. Tell them you won't be back and you will let everyone you know that they ripped you off and they are unkownledgeable about many animals. Returning every three days is insane. There isn't too many illnesses, if any, that needs to be seen every three days, in any animal. What ever you decide to do. I would not let them off the hook. I would say something to them, before just walking away. They need to be told. I also would call your states vet boards and report them. Good luck. Now for your enclosure, you do need a lot more shade. Some Hostas do fairly well in a lot of sun and gives good shade. Also day lilies. Even a plastic light coloed planter box turned upside down and a entry hole cut in and a few vent holes at the top will work. I would also sink a plant saucer in the shade so he can soak himself and maybe some plain black dirt that you could make a mud hole for him to cool off. Good luck



The reason they gave me for having to come back so often was because "tortoises don't absorb medicines like every other animal. They metabolize it differently, so she needs to come back every few days to make sure the antibiotics take. If the bottom of her shell is still pink we'll just give her another quick shot and see how it goes from there."...... Yeah...


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## reticguy76 (Jun 21, 2012)

haha. that reason is pretty funny. while reptiles have slower metabolisms, most medications dont get metabolized differently, just slower. Generally, medications are absorbed one of a couple ways: through the liver (which reptiles have) or through the digestive tract (intestines primarily) which reptiles have. So, most meds do not get absorbed/metabolized differently, just slower 
In summary, let them know that they do not really know reptile medcine enough (or however you want to phrase it), and your tort is fine. Plenty of sunshine and fresh air, good food source, and clean, fresh water for drinking and soaking, and your tort will continue to prosper


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## KimandKarasi (Jun 21, 2012)

since the last visit two and a half weeks ago, she has gained 50 grams!  so I think she's doing JUUUST fine! lol! Thank you guys for your support, now that I know this I'll be the one educating HER on the subject of tortoises...  (of course, I wish I had known this sooner where I didnt have to lose money but hey, better late than never! )


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## dmmj (Jun 21, 2012)

KimandKarasi said:


> Itort said:
> 
> 
> > The tort looks perfectly normal to me. For three grand the vet should be able to give you a specific infection after sending blood work to university herp vet. I assume at this price bloodwork was done.
> ...


There is no need to feel like an idiot, you did what you thought was best for your tortoise. Sadly the vet was either ignorant or money hungry, I hope it is the first. As for getting money back, you can ask but I doubt anything would come form it, all the vet has to basically say is he/she thought they were doing what was best for the tortoise. I am not a vet ( though I do play on eon TV) but I think a simple blood test would have been able to pick up any infection, not bashing you, just hopefully future knowledge you can use.


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