# Enclosure ideas?



## CanadianTestudo (Jun 2, 2015)

Hey Everyone,
I thought I would post a picture for both my tortoise/turtle enclosures so people can recommend changes, or see something they like themselves to add to their enclosure. If you see something that you don't like please do tell me, I didn't join the forum so that people wouldn't tell me what they truly think at the risk of hurting my feelings. So first of is my russian tortoise indoor enclosure (Weather will not permit a picture of the outside enclosure yet). The substrate is 100% playsand. I know people are going to be really bothered by this, my question is why? She has never been impacted in the 8 years that I have kept her on sand, and that seems to be the biggest worry. She eats from stone slabs which keeps her beak grinded down and she does eat some sand kernels when they are stuck to the leaves. if the other worry is humidity, I give her two 20min baths a week so that her skin doesn't dry out. I tried dirt before but it dried out really quickly and was very dusty compared to the sand. Anyways here is the picture





Next up is my eastern box turtle enclosure. She is on eco earth alone (some moss in there but not mixed in the substrate). I really like the hill I designed over the top of her two hides. The hides are dug in a liitle into the substrate allowing her to get the burrowing feeling while not completely rearranging the terrarium.




So tell me your thoughts and please be honest


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## Jodie (Jun 2, 2015)

I can only speak on the Russian, no turtle experience. Sand is an impaction risk. It hasn't happened yet, yeah. It may never, but why risk it? Other substrates can be kept moist. This prevents dust and raises the humidity. Humidity is good for them As long as warm enough. I plant grass and cactus in my enclosure. Even potted plants will create sight barriers and helps create seperate environments. By this I mean behind the plant it is cooler. 
This enclosure is much to small for a Russian. The minimum should be 4 X 8 feet.
Welcome to the forum. I hope you find the information here useful.


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## johnsonnboswell (Jun 2, 2015)

It sounds like there is no moisture in your sand substrate? Baths are not a substitute for a humid environment. We can help you modify it. I like a combination of coconut coir and soil. Some sources do like a sand and coir combination, but no one recommends only sand. If your other substrate was too dry, that's likely because you didn't put enough water in. Spraying isn't effective. They need to be watered like a garden bed.


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## mikeylazer (Jun 2, 2015)

If you think the only reason you need humidity is to reduce dry skin than you need to read some of the care sheets provided. The russian enclosure looks to be quite small as well. Just my two cents.


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## crimson_lotus (Jun 2, 2015)

Russians like to dig and I don't think the playsand is suitable nor is it deep enough. I believe if you were to dampen the substrate (not sand, if you were to change to dirt, coir, etc.) he would be able to regulate his temperatures better by digging in deeper to get cool.

If you were to increase the amount of substrate, you would also have to adjust the lighting as it may end up being too close to your tortoises shell..I also think the walls may not be high enough in that case. I would recommend building a larger enclosure with higher walls.

For your box turtle, I can't really tell - is there a hill or anything for him to get into that water tub?


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## CanadianTestudo (Jun 2, 2015)

First the reply for the box turtle as it is simplest, yes quite easy for her to get into the tub and back out.

For the russian, the reason I have been hesitant of moist substrates for humidity is that I don't want her to get a respiratory infection or shell rot. Especially over the winter it can get quite cold at night in the house and cold plus moisture is dangerous as far as I know. I know the enclosure is small, it is only her winter enclosure. Her outdoor enclosure is bigger (not 4x8 feet though, no way for me to make it that big) probably 6x3 feet roughly if I had to guess.

The substrate needs to be changed soon anyways as it is getting low in there. With the height of the walls I won't be able to make it deep enough for her to burry herself in it without risking her climbing out. I am however planning on building a tortoise table this summer so I will keep the height of the walls in mind for when I build that. 

I always thought you wanted to keep their humidity quite low, what is the reason that they need a higher humidity? When I look at images of the natural environment of russian tortoises I do quite often see sand (not 100% true, but they live on it in the wild so I really doubt it is harmful to the degree that people think, like with the impaction) and the environments do not look humid to me at all.


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## mikeylazer (Jun 2, 2015)

CanadianTestudo said:


> First the reply for the box turtle as it is simplest, yes quite easy for her to get into the tub and back out.
> 
> For the russian, the reason I have been hesitant of moist substrates for humidity is that I don't want her to get a respiratory infection or shell rot. Especially over the winter it can get quite cold at night in the house and cold plus moisture is dangerous as far as I know. I know the enclosure is small, it is only her winter enclosure. Her outdoor enclosure is bigger (not 4x8 feet though, no way for me to make it that big) probably 6x3 feet roughly if I had to guess.
> 
> ...


Your tortoise should not be kept at the same house temperatures that you live on. They need alternative heat to maintain proper body temperatures. I suggest buying a CHE as soon as possible to let her enclosure stay warm. If you close off the top the temperature and humidity will increase to make your tortoise more comfortable. 

Having sand in a tortoise enclosure is a definite no. Impaction is one of the main reasons that tortoises die in captivity and in the wild, but thankfully in captivity we can make enclosures to reduce or eliminate chances of impaction. Buy a few bricks of coco fiber for 7$ and use that instead. 

Russian tortoises live in arid regions yes, but they get their humidity from the burrows they dig in the wild. Leaving an open topped enclosure and also having a substrate that is too shallow to allow it to burrow is depriving your tortoise of humidity.

You can be unwilling to listen to us and trust in your own way, but many more experienced keepers on here like @Tom will tell you more explicity what you should change to provide the proper conditions for your tortoise.


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## CanadianTestudo (Jun 2, 2015)

I am definitely not unwilling to listen, I just want to have everything explained. I'm willing to learn of course, thats the hole reason I'm here. At night now it doesn't get that cold anymore as summer is approaching (house temp around 18C which is good). Over the day of course I have a heat lamp in there, she gets about 33C under her hot spot. 

I will get her substrate changed by next weekend most likely, probably will be a soil and coco mix but I'll have too see. Now how do I keep it moist (I don't do gardening, so what is watering like a garden bed)?


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## mikeylazer (Jun 2, 2015)

Covering the top of the enclosure will allow the substrate to be less moist and still stay very humid. At least cover 3/4ths of it and mist the enclosure 2 times a day.


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## Jodie (Jun 2, 2015)

CanadianTestudo said:


> First the reply for the box turtle as it is simplest, yes quite easy for her to get into the tub and back out.
> 
> For the russian, the reason I have been hesitant of moist substrates for humidity is that I don't want her to get a respiratory infection or shell rot. Especially over the winter it can get quite cold at night in the house and cold plus moisture is dangerous as far as I know. I know the enclosure is small, it is only her winter enclosure. Her outdoor enclosure is bigger (not 4x8 feet though, no way for me to make it that big) probably 6x3 feet roughly if I had to guess.
> 
> ...


Cold and humid is bad, you are right. I never let my Russians temps go Much below 70F with 50 percent humidity. In the wild they burrow underground where the moisture is at. Looks of their natural environment are deceiving.


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## johnsonnboswell (Jun 2, 2015)

What kind of light are you using? You can use a ceramic heat emitter to keep night temps up. It can fall to around 60 with no problem. 

Damp cold is no good, you're right about that, but humidity is very important for health. I don't know who scared you about shell rot. That happens with improper temps & humidity, not with proper ones. Not wet, just moist especially at the bottom. 

Those photos of their natural habitat show you the surface only. Beneath it, they burrow to find moisture & cooler or warmer temps. They find and make microclimates. What you see isn't how they live, nor does it show their many months of inactivity. 

I'm personally not concerned about the impaction issue, although it's alright so far is not a good motto for keeping tortoises; it's not proof, only a working hypothesis. Sand doesn't hold moisture, and tortoises (and box turtles) need to be able to burrow down into it. I used to use a 50/50 sand coir mix with some soil for my RTs m. Over time the organics break down but the sand doesn't, so the balance shifts. I wouldn't use more than 1/4 sand. They are not desert animals. Nothing grows in sand.


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## CanadianTestudo (Jun 2, 2015)

So what is the humidity they need, 50% like mentioned above? Because in the summer it gets to be about 60% here (and she is outside most of the time unless it is raining). I'm just wondering if the high humidity we have here in the summer plus a moist substrate would be a little too much. In the winter it does get really dry in the house as the central heating really dries out the air so I do see the point in covering most of the top and getting a moist substrate for that time of year. But in the summer, with the high humidity we have here could it be too much?


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## mini_max (Jun 2, 2015)

As a fellow Canuck, I use moist substrate with no trouble. Yeah the house can get pretty cool, so you need a night heat source. I use a ceramic heat emitter at night and during the day too in winter....along with an mvb basking bulb. If the tort is mostly outside in summer I wouldn't worry about keeping the indoor enclosure too moist. But remember where there are heat bulbs, the air is waaaay drier than what it would be in the rest of the house.


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## CanadianTestudo (Jun 3, 2015)

Alright that is what I figured, I have a che for the winter (I turn it off when she goes inactive). I'll make sure to keep an eye on humidity for the winter. By then she will be in a new enclosure (going to build a table for her) and I'll make sure to design it with substrate depth and humidity in mind


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