# no exotics under 5... your thoughts?



## james (Oct 6, 2008)

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081006/ap_on_he_me/med_exotic_pets


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## Itort (Oct 6, 2008)

I've only got few exotics over 5. LOL Seriuosly, I just read that article and agree there is a risk. My feeling is contact between a young child and any pet should be under adult supervision. Even in the case of a dog or cat it takes a very steady animal to deal with the actions of small children. The health risk is very real and the hygenic habits of the vast majority of children is almost nonexistent.


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## Isa (Oct 6, 2008)

I totally agree with Larry.


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## Yvonne G (Oct 6, 2008)

Its up to the parents or guardians to monitor the children, not up to the government.

Yvonne


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## JustAnja (Oct 6, 2008)

I agree that children under 5 shouldnÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t have exotic pets....

but not because of the pets being dangerous to the child, but the child being dangerous to the pet.


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## Crazy1 (Oct 6, 2008)

I feel that our government has far better things to monitor (Police) than whether a household has pets, any pet with children, either over or under 5 years old. It should be up to the guardians &/or parents to safeguard both the child and the pet from each other.


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## Laura (Oct 6, 2008)

Depends on the kids. Most are too young for such things safely.. for kids and animals. The parents should be wise enough.. commons sense to keep both safe.. HOWEVER... common sense seems to be lacking BIG TIME these days. 
I agree.. keep the Government out of it. but if the parents arent smart enough... 
many states have banned all sorts of Exotics. Safety issues. Past problems.. So sometimes you do have to have rules/laws to protect people from thier selves! so I guess Im a bit on the fence.. sometimes...


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## Crazy1 (Oct 7, 2008)

I understand your feelings. Sometimes people do not make the best decisions. 
Ever wonder why Ã¢â‚¬Å“common senseÃ¢â‚¬Â is so lacking these days? Why parents arenÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t teaching there kids, arenÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t even around to teach their kids? I do. But these are not all parents.
Still, I think that our government seems to have its fingers in the pie far too often. And although there are some people that need those rules/laws, I think by far people are much smarter than that. I think our government should govern, not parent. 
Forgive my rant, but it just seems to me that, especially lately, our government seems to be dictating-yes dictating more and more what we can and canÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t do. Things we as adults and parents should be choosing. Guns are dangerous in the wrong hands yet government has not been able to ban them, Why? $$$$ and big $$$$ is behind shooting down (excuse the pun) legislature that would stop the sale and ownership of guns. If they can pass a law stating no exotic pet for households with children under five, who is there to stop them? What $$$ is behind stoping that legislature from happening. What happens to those families with exotic pets that have children over five but get pregnant. Are they to give up their beloved pet? And if it is indeed for the safety of the child, what is to stop them from saying you canÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t have more than 1 child under the age of five, as it will impair your ability to care properly for them. Or you can't have more than X number if your income is not between $$$ and $$$.
There are many, many, things that we do daily that put us in danger, heck feeding a child french-fries can cause a choking hazard. 
I am an adult and a parent and grandparent and I think a responsible one. I taught my child how to be safe, how to care for animals, how to care for others and many other things.. I donÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t want our law makers to start parenting. That is my job. If there are people out there that canÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t or donÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t parent, deal with them and not the entire population. 
Well I guess we all know I am not sitting on any fence here.


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## zaccaryus (Oct 9, 2008)

james said:


> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081006/ap_on_he_me/med_exotic_pets



I was worried about this and talked to my vet about it because i CANT go 5 years without reptiles. He said its mostly for water turtles and all my herps are captive bred so not to worry although there is of course chance for infection etc. I could not understand waht the article said about pre-existing herps- they said the have to be removed or possibly:?
zach


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## stells (Oct 10, 2008)

sounds abit daft to me, but then it would i have an under 5 until next month, which brings my point, i am not going to see a dramatic change in my 4 year on his 5th birthday, children mature at different rates i also have a very mature 6 year old daughter and a immature 12 year old son (its a boy thing lol). But around the animals they are all the same, they have been taught by myself how to behave around the animals.

Not that it will effect me with living in the UK.. our government have enough to worry about without worrying about what pets people have...


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## mtdavis817254 (Oct 10, 2008)

i think that 5 is a litle old maybe 3 years or younger, and the threat of salmonilla can be defeated if the parents teach them to wash their hands after handiling them.. when i was five i had hedgehogs boxturtles redear sliders and ducks, and i even used to kiss my turtles (when i was a litle kid), and i never got sick.


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## Marla (Oct 15, 2008)

NO WAY!!! I do not agree that its any ones business but the parents and what they bring their children up around(at any age)...We are already a country that does not educate our youth on animal wildlife as it is....My adult children look at the world and all the animals in it as one..When you start the education process young enough it carries on over as part of everyday life..Living with the animals is the best way....Now if you want to hold parents responsible for making a clean healthy area then educate them...I hate more laws that teach nothing and draw more tax money from our pockets...
Now I feel very strongly on pet stores educating people..Their employees really have no clue about most animals...Maybe a law on how they sell animals...and keep them...I really get sick of walking into places with over crowding and wrong set-ups for critters..it sends the wrong message...
A warning label for children under 5 is OK


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## terryo (Oct 15, 2008)

I agree with you Marla...a warning labael. Also any employee that is selling an animal should be educated on that animal before they are alowed to sell. And as Anja said, I am more worried about the animal than the child. The parent should worry about their child and educate them, not the Government.


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## Madkins007 (Oct 15, 2008)

Hmmm... who do I trust more raising kids in America? Parents, the government, the schools, businesses?

Parents? More and more I am convinced that the gulf between good and poor parents is growing. I see examples of parents doing more and more foolish things for more and more foolish reasons. We know that early diet is critical- and what do we see parents do? We know that interacting with a child is a major predictor of academic success, and what do too many parents do? Etc. etc. etc. I dunno, maybe my wife being a teacher and me seeing so many parenting examples at my job biases me.

Schools? They have their role, but educating our kids is very different from raising them.

Government? No matter how well intended, few government programs work as advertised. 

Businesses and warning labels, staff training, etc.? In this economy? Business and their staff have one main purpose- make oodles of money no matter what junk they have to push on us. Staff training went away one of the first things when profits dropped. Heck, it is ALREADY against federal regs to sell turtles under 4" and I bet most of us could find one for sale within 20 miles of our houses.



I agree fully that young kids should not have most pets- exotic or not. How to do this is what baffles me. There are so many issues parents SHOULD know, and so many of them have no clue.


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## Marla (Oct 16, 2008)

Madkins007 said:


> Hmmm... who do I trust more raising kids in America? Parents, the government, the schools, businesses?
> 
> Parents? More and more I am convinced that the gulf between good and poor parents is growing. I see examples of parents doing more and more foolish things for more and more foolish reasons. We know that early diet is critical- and what do we see parents do? We know that interacting with a child is a major predictor of academic success, and what do too many parents do? Etc. etc. etc. I dunno, maybe my wife being a teacher and me seeing so many parenting examples at my job biases me.
> 
> ...



Part of the problem is parents waiting for someone to tell them (government, labels, schools)...The free thinking brain belongs to our TV set....How to break the chain so each generation can learn to pass down important information to the next generation, is so hard...In the wild animals die if they don't survive the environment offered to them...I say leave it to the parents and if the government wants to get involved they need to charge the parents not punish all the other parents with laws because of the stupid few...Baffled is a good term and I too am baffled...


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## terryo (Oct 18, 2008)

There are many pet shops here that have what ever you want in their "back room" (if you know someone). Box turtles are illegal to sell here, but you can get one very easily if you know someone. Also green iguana's are illegal, but we got a baby for $20. Baby green turtles....just take the ferry to China Town, and go to a grocery store or Koi store.....5 dollars. Baby Sulcata's......40 dollars...again ...back room. The list goes on and on. Then, of course there's the Internet. Whether it's illegal or not, you can get anything you want. Parents get these things for their kids for Christmas, or birthdays, and when they get a little too big, they dump them in the local pond. Our pond is filled with EPT....ducks are all over too ....Easter presents. For some reason, laws don't seem to matter to anyone because everything is so accessible. Sad. That is why it HAS to be up to the parent to teach their children to respect animals.


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## YuriTort (Oct 23, 2008)

I personally do not think most kids and pets (of any kind) are a good mix. I worked with dogs (and their owners) a few years, and my peers at animal shelters said this too often about surrendered animals: "They gave up the dog/cat/other pet because their child stopped taking care of it." The same child that begged and pleaded and promised to take care of that pet - a living, breathing, feeling creature. The only way "kids and pets" work together is if the parents are already "animal lovers" themselves, and understand fully the care the animal will require, and are willing to take this over permanently when the child loses interest. Most kids, unless they're an exception like Bindi Irwin, are going to lose interest in any pet. Of course, there are real-life exceptions, too - the kids who already know in their heart they will be veterinarians or some other animal professional. But, unfortunately, for most kids, the excitement of a new pet wears off, and in the case of the tortoise, ends up in a dirty glass aquarium filled with newspaper in the corner of the bedroom. 

While on the surface, it seems absurd that government should consider regulating whether or not people of a certain age should be "allowed" to have pets, I think it is perhaps an attempt to reduce the myriad of problems stemming from parents making poor ("impulse") decisions regarding their children's ability to take, or even share, the responsibility of caring for a living creature. And, at the other end, I would suggest stronger legislation as it relates to punishment for animal cruelty and neglect ...

*Clunk*crash*boom* That is the sound of me tumbling off one of my soapboxes with my little fist in the air ...

Rhishja


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## old4x4 (Oct 24, 2008)

terryo said:


> Also green iguana's are illegal, but we got a baby for $20.



What country do you live in where iguanas/Sulcatas are illegal?


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## purpod (Oct 24, 2008)

Oh yes, common sense is xtremely lacking these days, but for the government to get involved would be just more uneducated red tape; how do they know if homes with pets are intelligent enuf to teach kids how to handle animals {of ANY sort}?

I think it's outrageous to say that kids under 5 should not have exotic pets; h*ll, my daughter got sick from the $150.00 rescue cat at her DAD's house, and not once from the tort's, lizzies or snakes that I own!

In addition, I agree that education about handling, habitat and health issues is the key; we always use the germ gel to keep from any health issues at our home. Before my daughter was born, and thru-out her first 3 years, we had a wonderful 6' red tail boa.. and no, he never looked at her as tho she was a 'Scooby snack' & no, she never hit or mis-treated "The Lil' Prince".

Indeed, I would argue that because we have always had reptiles, my kids have a greater love for all of the creatures God has made, not just the 2 legged ones, or the furry 4 legged ones. My daughter at the age of 4 BEGGED me to get her a tarantula {EWWW}, with the reasoning that "They have feelings too, Mom!". Of course, today she would not be so happy to see an enormous spider, but that's just 'cuz now she is more of a "girl", so to speak, lol.

I feel that the article was totally biased. Perhaps I am totally biased, who knows? But the fact is that if parents would step up to the plate {on many issues, not just this one}, our future would be much brighter. To expect parents to give up their scaled family members because they have skinned family members under the age of 5 is ridiculous!

 That's my story & I'm sticking to it!
A Purpod Mom who's had rep's all thru-out her life


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## elegans (Oct 24, 2008)

What does not kill you makes you stronger! Seriously eat a pound of dirt. There are more and more studies showing that many kids with allergies simply were not exposed to enough crap to develop a good immune system. Caution for sure, but honestly? I won't eat a hamburger if it is not medium rare to rare, and I'm not dead yet. Most of our pets if kept well are probably cleaner than most of the pre prepared food that we buy. Douglas


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## old4x4 (Oct 24, 2008)

elegans said:


> What does not kill you makes you stronger! Seriously eat a pound of dirt. There are more and more studies showing that many kids with allergies simply were not exposed to enough crap to develop a good immune system. Caution for sure, but honestly? I won't eat a hamburger if it is not medium rare to rare, and I'm not dead yet. Most of our pets if kept well are probably cleaner than most of the pre prepared food that we buy. Douglas



That's always been my theory, too. Well Put!!


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## terryo (Oct 24, 2008)

old4x4 said:


> terryo said:
> 
> 
> > Also green iguana's are illegal, but we got a baby for $20.
> ...



I live in NY and any turtle...tortoise under 4 in. is illegal. Also box turtles of any kind is illegal to sell.


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## Crazy1 (Oct 29, 2008)

terryo said:


> old4x4 said:
> 
> 
> > terryo said:
> ...



Terryo, that is not just in your state. Through out the USA it is illegal to sell turtles or tortoise that are unter 4 inches under specifc conditions.
Below is how the law reads. Though I do not know about individual state laws regarding other reptiles.
http://www.tortoise.org/general/4inch.html
http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/cdrh/cfdocs/cfcfr/cfrsearch.cfm?fr=1240.62


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## Barb92083 (Oct 30, 2008)

This is crazy more kids get mauled by dogs every year the family PET as they would say then get Salmonilla from cramming a turtle in thier yaps.


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## Marla (Oct 30, 2008)

Barb92083 said:


> This is crazy more kids get mauled by dogs every year the family PET as they would say then get Salmonilla from cramming a turtle in thier yaps.



Good Point


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## tortoise_addict (Nov 2, 2008)

I agree. I do not think its a matter of age for the child but how responsible the parent is. I use to breed bearded dragons (just sold off my stock) so my son has been raised with dogs, bearded dragons, and every animal you can think of he has probably seen up close or come into contact with. 
It is up to the parents to teach a child how to act around animals. Children will be children but unfortunately like a child the novelty wears off with the adults too. 
My son helps everyday feed and turn on lights to the reptiles. He lets the dogs in and out to go potty. He is in charge of filling there water bowl and he is pretty good about it. He plays with his tortoises daily. He is gentle and likes to take them outside and lays with them while they eat grass and sun. I keep thinking he is going to forget about them but he gets mad if I turn there lights off before he can. He loves to care for them but has from a very young age. His favorites are dwarf caimen. I refuse to get one but I bet when he gets old enough that is the first thing he is going to purchase.lol
He grew up from before he was born watching and loving croc hunter and he still will choose to watch a nature show over a cartoon. I love that I have nurtured that side of him. He is an only child and I am a stay at home mom so he spend a lot of time playing with his animals. He like me would be lost without them.
It is all on the parents and the children.
My son as a baby with our old dog Mr Big... Yeah, he is a big handsome pit bull that was my sons keeper. He has since passed away and we miss him daily.


















My son felt bad for this dragon who has upper respiratory on arrival and we treated him.





My son with his dogs





Some of his favorite dragon babies













(OOps the rest of my reply. sorry so long but I love to show of my favorite things in life)


























It is my responsibility to make sure he is safe and the animals. He has never once been bitten by anything or sick from anything. He has never really been sick period. He loves all animals and has a deep affection for them and I really try to nurture that side of him but in the end it all falls on my shoulders if any animal or my son gets hurt or sick. 
Never buy a child a pet unless you yourself fully want to own it too.


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## terryo (Nov 2, 2008)

Your son is beautiful. I raised five sons...stay at home mom too. They all got my love of animals and nature. I tried to teach all of them to be responsible pet owners and to love all God's creatures. Every Spring my Son's come over and help me clean my ponds...fix turtle pens...Sharing our love of animals and nature through the years has made me very close to my children.


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## purpod (Nov 3, 2008)

Can't decide which images I like bestest; Your son snoozing with the dawg, or your son wearing a lizzie hat! 
Thanx for the share, lol, very cool 

Purpod


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## tortoise_addict (Nov 3, 2008)

Thanks everyone. He is a complete joy and fun to have around.


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## richalisoviejo (Apr 4, 2009)

emysemys said:


> Its up to the parents or guardians to monitor the children, not up to the government.
> 
> Yvonne



Well said. As a general matter, a parent or guardian is entrusted with the legal responsibility of making decisions on behalf of a minor. With the exception where cases when a parent or guardian acts contrary to the interest of a minor. I donÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t see that in this case.


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## captainjack (Apr 4, 2009)

Touchy subject this seems to be. I have a 2 year old god daughter and she doesn't mix well with pets of any kind....she tries to make a grab for Adrian in an agressive way...by that i mean of she got hold of him she'd throw him....but she hasn't been around pets...her mother doesn't own any so he doesn't have the understanding. The main problem is that some kids are capable of caring for pets in general and some aren't, i think most people should be vetted...over here in the uk you often get vetted by breeders or the RSPCA before they wll allow you to own a pet from them...the problem is that I'm a WildLife Warrior and since i work by Steve Irwins rules it boils down to education...for both kids and parents...i mean Steve's kids were around all kinds of animals right from birth but he nurtured them to understand and care for the animals around them....that's the key.


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## DuttonWebb (Apr 4, 2009)

children are exotic pets.


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## jorrow (Apr 4, 2009)

I think that "goverment is the problem not the solution" and in the USA we are not Socialist nor a Dictatorship.... So the "man" should have much much more important things other than telling people how to run their life, such as using our tax money properly.


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## purpod (Apr 8, 2009)

I agree with what most have said here: there is no reason to put a ban on anything because a few ignorant peeps need a swift kick in the butt! I hear ya loud & clear, Robyn!

It's rather like the anti-gun laws here in Cali: because of the gangs in So. Cal., idiot Feinstein wants to ban guns.. but if you think about it for a minute, making it illegal for a _responsible_ person to own a gun does not mean that the criminals (who are already breaking the law) are going to be less armed, surely the contrary. Shoot, as it is, LAPD is out-armed. Then who has all the weapons? The criminals.

*Parents *who are *responsible *with teaching their children about the scaled family members should not be condemned because of the morons who buy a sulcata for their 3 year old 'cuz "It's a little cute turtle" with no clue as to how to care for it, much less what to do once the "little cute turtle" grows up!

Indeed, Government has plenty of worries to spend their limited resources on here in the US ~ and it certainly should have nothing to do about what transpires in my own home unless I've endangered my children. I _hate _it when the innocent/intelligent peeps are ruled by those who feel the need to parent the crappy ignorant peeps!

That's my story & I'm sticking to it!  
Purpod


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## jorrow (Apr 8, 2009)

purpod said:


> I agree with what most have said here: there is no reason to put a ban on anything because a few ignorant peeps need a swift kick in the butt! I hear ya loud & clear, Robyn!
> 
> It's rather like the anti-gun laws here in Cali: because of the gangs in So. Cal., idiot Feinstein wants to ban guns.. but if you think about it for a minute, making it illegal for a _responsible_ person to own a gun does not mean that the criminals (who are already breaking the law) are going to be less armed, surely the contrary. Shoot, as it is, LAPD is out-armed. Then who has all the weapons? The criminals.
> 
> ...



DITTO


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## desertsss (Apr 9, 2009)

I must say...I don't feel that the government should have anything to do with this issue. I do on the other hand have to say...that, unfortunately, there are a lot of "stupid" people out there. So many animals wind up being neglected, homeless, abused, some even put to sleep because they wind up going to the pound, all because some parents don't take the proper steps in educating their child about what they are getting themselves into. 
With my stepdaughter, and she is 12 years old, she is still incapable of caring for an animal. No matter how hard we try to make her understand...she just doesn't get it. I thought that a hamster would be a good start. Well, a month later she had him in his rolly ball thing and she picked him up to take him downstairs, one of his little claws went through the ball, and she freaked out and dropped the ball all the way down the stairs. Luckily the little guy was not harmed, just a little dizzy. However, after that happened we found him a new home, she no longer wanted him because she was scared of him. About six months ago she wanted us to take in a mouse from her school and the answer was no. Parents must know that a pet for your child, means a pet for you, because no matter what you are the parent, meaning whatever your child has, you have. 
As far as dealing with exotics, I feel the same with any animal. All animals are precious. All animals deserve excellent care and all children should be protected against what might harm them as well. It should be a parental decision, but an educated parental decision.


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## bikerchicspain (Apr 15, 2009)

I have 2 torts and have 2 kids under 5,its important to teach children about animals,They are not allowed to touch the Torts,but they will sit watching them go about their daily business. About infection, thats silly, as infection you can get from any animal that is not looked after properly, Yes there is the Salmonella problem,Wash yoour hands and there shouldnt be a problem,You can get parasites from dogs and cats, diseases from Rats, leshmanosis from mosquitos, so whats the problem with reptiles,Water turtles are almost radicated from salmonella.Its all a question of hygiene and good husbandry.


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