# How to disinfect food+water bowl? PLEASE HELP!



## Speedy_Tortoise (Jan 7, 2010)

How do you disinfect a tort's food/water bowl? I usually pour fresh water into his bowl twice a day, but how do you actually kill all the germs (without using chemicals that harm the tortoise)?


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## chadk (Jan 7, 2010)

You really need to scrub it with something (feel the sides and bottom next time and you'll probably feel the slime that is forming. Use a white cloth and you may even see red or green growth come off) and use something to kill germs and bacteria.

Hot water and dish soap and some elbow grease is one way. Your dish washer should also do the trick.

Grapefuit seed extract is another option that comes to mind.


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## spikethebest (Jan 7, 2010)

bleach, then hot water, then more water, and more water


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## t_mclellan (Jan 7, 2010)

Something commonly used in animal hospitals to sterilize bows is "Nolvasan" or 
"Chlorhexidine gluconate" 

http://wiki.medpedia.com/Clinical:Chlorhexidine_gluconate_(Chlorhexidine_Gluconate)


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## Shelly (Jan 7, 2010)

Seriously? You need "PLEASE HELP!" to find out how to wash a dish?


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## kimber_lee_314 (Jan 7, 2010)

I also use just a bit of Nolvasan - let it soak a little to kill all the germs. (This stuff is especially good when you have multiple species or sick friends.)


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## ChiKat (Jan 7, 2010)

I just put Nelson's dish in the dishwasher.


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## Madkins007 (Jan 7, 2010)

You have a lot of options depending on your situation and what it is made of.

1. Run it through the dishwasher. This works best if you have two of everything.

2. Wash it like a regular dish. It kills the germs on your plates (if you do it right), and will on your tortoise stuff as well. (You GREATLY enhance the disinfection element of washing dishes by using a dilute bleach rinse/dip.)

3. Wash it with a safe disinfecting agent. Common bleach at the right dilution is pretty safe around tortoises, and won't cause a problem if you miss a little in the rinse. Other disinfectants are also available if desired.

4. Just rinse/scrub it under hot water. Just getting rid of the slime will do a lot of the work, but it won't be disinfected.

5. Eliminate/minimize the washables. Some authors use plastic-coated disposables and just toss after a while, or serve food on 'plates' made of folded newspaper (I really like this idea!)


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## Torts (Jan 7, 2010)

I pour vinegar on the surface of the dish, scrub it, and rinse it with water for a more natural approach to cleaning the dishes. I have also used regular dish washing soap in the past. I heard somewhere that you should never use bleach (not sure why). Also when I get lazy, I use small 6" Dixie Plates which I then toss when they are done eating (not the best for the environment though).


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## tortoisenerd (Jan 7, 2010)

I use dish soap once a week on the water and food dishes with a brush that is just for my tort's dishes (in case any poop lingers on there and for some reason I washed a human dish and didn't rinse it all the way that could be bad). I don't like the idea of running it through the dishwasher because then everything would be fixed together and I work hard to keep his stuff separate due to parasites. I am scared his dishes (Groovy Jacuzzi water bowl with steps and a slate tile) could be porous so I won't use bleach. I do want to look at the ingredients on the antiseptic stuff to see if I'd be comfortable with it, but the dish soap seems to be fine because we were able to treat and get rid of both his parasites (fingers crossed they don't show up again). I also wouldn't mind trying apple cider vinegar. I won't use disposables because I want him to eat on a hard surface to avoid needing to clip his beak.

I actually think this is a good question. I looked this up when I was new to torts to make sure that dish soap couldn't harm him.


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## webskipper (Jan 7, 2010)

Nolvasan is great.

Chlorine Bleach is common and just a few drops in the bowl does the trick. Let sit for 30 minutes and rinse. Let dry. For this reason many people have duplicates.

Chlorine is a fine sterilizer however it affect the lungs. Chlorine was developed and used to kill our boys in WWI.

Hospitals use Hydrogen Peroxide. Problem is, you have to really rinse it or it will still be in the water.


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## Livingstone (Jan 7, 2010)

Boiling water... Microwave???


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## Annieski (Jan 8, 2010)

I use glass dishes and bowls I picked up at the dollar store. Glass can be washed simplly with mild soap detergent and hot water and rinsed throughly. Glass does not "retain" bacteria because it is non-pourous.


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## Madkins007 (Jan 8, 2010)

Torts said:


> I pour vinegar on the surface of the dish, scrub it, and rinse it with water for a more natural approach to cleaning the dishes. I have also used regular dish washing soap in the past. I heard somewhere that you should never use bleach (not sure why). Also when I get lazy, I use small 6" Dixie Plates which I then toss when they are done eating (not the best for the environment though).



I've heard about vinegar as a disinfectant for decades, but when I try to find research on it (kill rates, dilutions, etc.) I find few credible sources- mostly just 'handy hints' sites. I suspect it would be more useful on hard, non-porous surfaces... where soap and water work about as well.



tortoisenerd said:


> I use dish soap once a week on the water and food dishes with a brush that is just for my tort's dishes (in case any poop lingers on there and for some reason I washed a human dish and didn't rinse it all the way that could be bad). I don't like the idea of running it through the dishwasher because then everything would be fixed together and I work hard to keep his stuff separate due to parasites. I am scared his dishes (Groovy Jacuzzi water bowl with steps and a slate tile) could be porous so I won't use bleach. I do want to look at the ingredients on the antiseptic stuff to see if I'd be comfortable with it, but the dish soap seems to be fine because we were able to treat and get rid of both his parasites (fingers crossed they don't show up again). I also wouldn't mind trying apple cider vinegar. I won't use disposables because I want him to eat on a hard surface to avoid needing to clip his beak.
> 
> I actually think this is a good question. I looked this up when I was new to torts to make sure that dish soap couldn't harm him.



Some points to consider:
- Dish soap does not kill any germs, but the heat of a properly heated dishwasher does.
- Bleach in a 1:10 dilution ratio is safe for porous materials if you think your bowl is porous (but if it were, it would leak, wouldn't it?) Bleach at a 1:100 ratio would be appropriate for the bowl otherwise and a good rinse is all you would need- tortoises are not bothered by small traces of bleach.
- If your water bowl IS porous, then it is a real risk for germs and you may want to consider replacing it. (Actually, there are a lot better options for tortoises.) Clear plastic plant saucers sunk to the rim are a great, cheap choice.
- I had not heard the idea that feeding on a hard surface trims the beak. Where did you find this?



Livingstone said:


> Boiling water... Microwave???



Boiling would certainly work but it is slow and takes a lot of energy. For most of the germs we are talking about, proper dishwashing and/or dilute bleach will do just fine.


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## samstar (Jan 11, 2010)

Dish soap, lots of water, scrub and srub, dry it under the sun


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## moonraser (Jan 11, 2010)

How about 99 isopropyl alcohol is that bad for the Tort?


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## dmmj (Jan 11, 2010)

I just use the dishwasher myself, seems to work pretty well. I don't wash them with people dishes though.


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## Redfoot NERD (Jan 11, 2010)

I have always done the same thing that 'nature' does.............
I take that back.. I do more. I dump out the old and wipe it off with a paper towel and then I fill it back up again. 

Do your torts or their enclosure have germs that would make them sick ? 

NERD


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## Madkins007 (Jan 13, 2010)

Redfoot NERD said:


> Do your torts or their enclosure have germs that would make them sick ?
> 
> NERD



Unfortunately, yes. Their feces contain bacteria that can colonize and be harmful even if everything else is perfect. Bacteria, viruses, and fungal spores can float in the air and colonize. Red-foot habitats are warm and humid- perfect for pathogenic growth, especially if you are not using UVB lighting (UV, especially the stuff closest to UVC, is a good natural anti-biotic). 

Many of the substrates we use have their own problems. Some mulches for example hatch out small bugs, which means they can just as easily harbor pathogens- remember that garden soils and such are only 'sterilized' enough to be used in a garden safely. 

Spoiling foods, flies and other pests in the habitats, pathogens introduced by humans and other animals... the list can get really long.

Seriously, I think most germ talk is overblown, and most of the time a good rinse is all the water dish needs... but a quick disinfection is cheap insurance.


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## Traveller (Jan 14, 2010)

To keep my torts healthy I try to keep on top of their messes, spot picking feces and doing dishes everyday.
But when I get behind and finding dishes a tad nasty I use this product,

http://www.presidentschoice.ca/LCLOnline/products.jsp?catIds=323&type=details&productId=19519

I also use this when I'm working with our aquariums.
The only drawback with this product for us is I have to be careful how much of it I send down the drain, since we are on a septic system.


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## Redfoot NERD (Jan 14, 2010)

Mark I'm confused _again!_! You make it sound like they are exposed to things they shouldn't even be breathing.. let alone be eating! And then you say this whole "germ talk" is overblown??? Consider the contradiction and confusion that 'might' create? Whatever you do.. don't tell _anyone_ that Salmonella is everywhere!.. right now as we read this!!! 

How about if I said.. "You're cruel and a bad 'keeper' when you remove 'poop' from a redfoots' enclosure! After all that is something they love to eat.. never pass it up.. they look for it.. the fresher the better"! That would be [ even tho it's true ] a little overblown.. wouldn't it? Then again [ I'm not 'judging' ] some perfectly healthy people wear gloves and masks out in public for fear of catching a bug. [ of course they would claim that's how they stay 'perfectly healthy' ]

I agree that this germ thing IS overblown.. it's where we live here and now... too bad "common sense" isn't...

Terry K


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## Madkins007 (Jan 14, 2010)

Redfoot NERD said:


> Mark I'm confused _again!_! You make it sound like they are exposed to things they shouldn't even be breathing.. let alone be eating! And then you say this whole "germ talk" is overblown??? Consider the contradiction and confusion that 'might' create? Whatever you do.. don't tell _anyone_ that Salmonella is everywhere!.. right now as we read this!!!
> 
> How about if I said.. "You're cruel and a bad 'keeper' when you remove 'poop' from a redfoots' enclosure! After all that is something they love to eat.. never pass it up.. they look for it.. the fresher the better"! That would be [ even tho it's true ] a little overblown.. wouldn't it? Then again [ I'm not 'judging' ] some perfectly healthy people wear gloves and masks out in public for fear of catching a bug. [ of course they would claim that's how they stay 'perfectly healthy' ]
> 
> ...



I agree that talking about germs drives ya crazy- one side saying ignore them, the other side saying they are going to kill you, and reality laying in the middle... but you are the one who asked the question.

Every weekend I have to teach bloodborne pathogens and hygiene during one class or another- and more and more this whole issue just bugs me. I'm with you- practice some common sense and moderation and move on.


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## Redfoot NERD (Jan 14, 2010)

Twisting as usual Mark...


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## tortoisenerd (Jan 15, 2010)

"I had not heard the idea that feeding on a hard surface trims the beak. Where did you find this?"

I have always read about it on this forum, and seems to work well for us so far. When my little guy's beak rubs against the slate tile to pick up a piece of green that is flush with the surface, that is how it can get worn down naturally as it would be in the wild (similar to the nails being worn down by rocks).

Oh, and the reason I think it is important to disinfect anything that can come into contact with tort feces is because they are in a confined indoor environment (at least that is what I am talking about), so they can easily "re-infect" themselves. Also, the slime in a dish happens unlike in the wild where there will be natural stuff which prevents it from growing, or water evaporates and falls again. There are some things for indoor captivity which we need to do more so than in the wild or even a backyard enclosure environment.


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