# Petsmart ..



## Ashley_Sheldon (Nov 29, 2013)

I think every tortoise owner should see this ..


Look how small the tank is for that Testudo tortoise ! He cant even walk around ! That water dish is very high ! Pellets ?!?! Why do they give him a diet of pellets ?! I be the doesnt even eat ! How cruel ! I didnt want to tell at a worker because I am quite shy but I was so angry and sad !  my mom tried to tell me that they were just doing this to sell him .. she doesn't know what she's talking about . That tortoise had no access to a UVB light , heat lamp , or fresh greens ! I feel so ashamed in myself that i didnt do anything about this .. I wont be able to sleep knowing that i didnt try my best to help him by telling the worker . I know they wouldn't have listened anyways but i feel so horrible . I've never even seen Petsmart sell a tortoise before so why should they start ?! They also had geckos and lizards in the same conditions , pellets , tiny enclosures , etc .


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## ascott (Nov 29, 2013)

Ah honey, it is rough when we see this stuff....but lets try to see some other stuff...remember, a tort in a new environment won't generally eat straight off (so lets hope this one has not been here too long)...the pellets (aka; fruity pebbles) are not horrific just the tort likely does not associate them with actual food....from what I can see of his little back leg, he has some meat on him so he should fare alright for a bit...

Usually the tanks are heated and usually the bulbs are uv rays as well....so he is likely going to be aok in that area....and if he was too cold he would be hunkered down and not looking for a way out, at least as it appears....

Keep in mind that most of these torts are wild caught....so he has been through a heck of a trip to arrive here....and while he is no longer in the wild---I bet that enclosure you are looking at still is a huge improvement over the conditions he endured from wild to tank....so, while I absolutely agree--this is not ideal conditions...it is what is used in a store for profit set up....

The best thing you can do, is go to the store manager and request information from your checklist of questions, and hey---don't be shy about getting to the bottom of something---even if you need to call and adult to the carpet to acquire that info....you can absolutely do it---only takes a moment in time to muster the words and less than that to let them spew out.... Also, if the person tries to shut you down....remember you are there spending your and your Parents money---so you can be a bit assertive....


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## Tom (Nov 29, 2013)

Speak up. They need to hear it from a multitude of people. The food could be better, but my real problem is that water bowl. They are tortoise death traps. The rest of it I can live with as a quick temporary set up.


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## sibi (Nov 29, 2013)

The problem is, Tom, they don't have any bowls suitable for this tort. They only put in those tanks what they have available in the store. I'd like to buy a bunch of planter dishes and offer it as a gift to all the pet stores that do this!


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## Ashley_Sheldon (Nov 30, 2013)

ascott said:


> Ah honey, it is rough when we see this stuff....but lets try to see some other stuff...remember, a tort in a new environment won't generally eat straight off (so lets hope this one has not been here too long)...the pellets (aka; fruity pebbles) are not horrific just the tort likely does not associate them with actual food....from what I can see of his little back leg, he has some meat on him so he should fare alright for a bit...
> 
> Usually the tanks are heated and usually the bulbs are uv rays as well....so he is likely going to be aok in that area....and if he was too cold he would be hunkered down and not looking for a way out, at least as it appears....
> 
> ...



Thanks for making me feel a lot better !




Tom said:


> Speak up. They need to hear it from a multitude of people. The food could be better, but my real problem is that water bowl. They are tortoise death traps. The rest of it I can live with as a quick temporary set up.



Thats what I was thinking ! They have a whole selection of different tortoise bowls that would be WAY better then that one ..




sibi said:


> The problem is, Tom, they don't have any bowls suitable for this tort. They only put in those tanks what they have available in the store. I'd like to buy a bunch of planter dishes and offer it as a gift to all the pet stores that do this!



If want to do that too haha ! But actually , in the reptile isle , there was a few bowls that would be better then that so that makes me more upset that they couldn't put a better one in there 




Tom said:


> Speak up. They need to hear it from a multitude of people. The food could be better, but my real problem is that water bowl. They are tortoise death traps. The rest of it I can live with as a quick temporary set up.



When I was actually at the store , i actually said out loud that i didnt even think he can get in the water dish and some people just like looked at me with kind of an "agreement look" haha


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## Jacqui (Nov 30, 2013)

I'd be willing to bet money, that Russian could climb into the waterbowl if it wanted to... and then get out of it. While this setup is not idea in our minds, for a temp setup it works and is better then many Russians out there are currently living in.  I see nothing cruel in that picture, sorry.


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## Yvonne G (Nov 30, 2013)

I agree with Jacqui on this. The store is in business to make money and sell things. They can't set up the animals in a habitat like you at home would set him up in. They have space constraints. Also, it makes sense to use the items that they sell in the store to present the animal. They don't plan to keep these animals for any length of time, and keeping that tortoise in a small habitat like that for a week or so really isn't a hardship on the animal.

The best thing you can do is print out a good care sheet, run off a few copies, and take them to the store manager, asking him if he would be so kind as to give each buyer of a tortoise one of the care sheets.


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## sibi (Nov 30, 2013)

The problem with that is they are giving the buyer the wrong idea on how to keep the tort. A bowl like that can drown a tort if he flips over.


Yvonne G said:


> I agree with Jacqui on this. The store is in business to make money and sell things. They can't set up the animals in a habitat like you at home would set him up in. They have space constraints. Also, it makes sense to use the items that they sell in the store to present the animal. They don't plan to keep these animals for any length of time, and keeping that tortoise in a small habitat like that for a week or so really isn't a hardship on the animal.
> 
> The best thing you can do is print out a good care sheet, run off a few copies, and take them to the store manager, asking him if he would be so kind as to give each buyer of a tortoise one of the care sheets.


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## Jacqui (Nov 30, 2013)

sibi said:


> The problem with that is they are giving the buyer the wrong idea on how to keep the tort. A bowl like that can drown a tort if he flips over.



A baby might, but that is an adult tortoise. A WC not doubt who if he was lacking the common sense to get himself out of that bowl IF he would flip over, would have died in the wild a long time ago. 

Sibi, a buyer has to take some responsibility to realize that how they look in a pet store is not how they should look at home. That is like saying folks who are selling tortoises on here should not be showing a bunch of hatchlings in a empty tub.







(No, I am not saying that breeders should not be showing their hatchlings in such a fashion, just playing Devil's advocate here).

This would have also been a great time for folks to put up flyers on the boards at these stores and perhaps ads in Craig's list, ect letting folks know about this forum or just you yourself being ready to give them information and help. I know Cowboy Ken has done the Craig's list thing in the past. Get to know the local sales folks and make sure they know your willing to give help. Educate those buyers.


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## sibi (Nov 30, 2013)

Agreed. And the tort isn't a baby, but it can still flip in that ki d of a bowl. Yes, the store will try a d sell their products to go along with the tort, but, out of all the different bowls they ha e to offer, this one is one of the most expensive. They aren't concerned with the safety of this tort; they want you to buy their most expensive bowl. That's why they display it in the tank. I'm not against a comps y trying to make a profit; just the ones that don't really care about the health and safety of the animals in their care.


Jacqui said:


> sibi said:
> 
> 
> > The problem with that is they are giving the buyer the wrong idea on how to keep the tort. A bowl like that can drown a tort if he flips over.
> ...


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## Sulcata_Sandy (Nov 30, 2013)

Well said, Jacqui.

My problem with Petco and other large stores is they have high turnover and few employees really know much. I was there yesterday, supporting my Hermit crab obsession (50% off!!!) and a customer asked a random sales associate how to stop his dog from pulling. I shoulda put money on it because, sure enough, he instructed the customer to buy a freaking harness. Uh....come ON people!!! What do sled dogs use? Horses and carriages? Not one mention of behavior, basic obedience training, offering their crappy training courses, just hand him a basic harness and walked away. Super.

At least when I go, like yesterday, I picked out two lovely Hermies, asked a few polite questions, made a nice comment that those painted shells are toxic, to which the associate was interested and asked more, so I suggested he check out a hermit crab forum with lots of simple care instructions.

I've done the same with Betta...referred to my very favorite forum. And I circulate posts on local Facebook groups to encourage people to find TFO. Never thought of a CL post...Ken needs to "git er done" again. [GRINNING FACE WITH SMILING EYES]

And I agree, people need to do their own research, but just as I was recently tarred and feathered for my fun and humorous thread about my big Oliver and his living room arrangements, I was harassed and lectured publicly for and privately for days and days that I was setting a bad example and new keepers will think it's ok (despite my continuous claim this was not ideal and was temporary)....Petco is setting an even worse example....while I was one small person, clearly stating non-ideal/temp conditions, Petco is a HUGE corporation and the general public looks to them for expert advice.


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## Jacqui (Nov 30, 2013)

sibi said:


> Agreed. And the tort isn't a baby, but it can still flip in that ki d of a bowl.



Yes and we have had some hatchlings flip in plant saucers too.  I am not saying the bowl they are using is the best, but it does work in this situation. I agree no doubt it is their most expensive one, that's just simple logic that a store should always display it's most expensive items to get folks to impluse buy them. I believe I have a bowl like that one even, I used it for a snake years back.


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## Ashley_Sheldon (Nov 30, 2013)

Jacqui said:


> I'd be willing to bet money, that Russian could climb into the waterbowl if it wanted to... and then get out of it. While this setup is not idea in our minds, for a temp setup it works and is better then many Russians out there are currently living in.  I see nothing cruel in that picture, sorry.



Its a Testudo tortoise but actually it could drown in the bowl




Yvonne G said:


> I agree with Jacqui on this. The store is in business to make money and sell things. They can't set up the animals in a habitat like you at home would set him up in. They have space constraints. Also, it makes sense to use the items that they sell in the store to present the animal. They don't plan to keep these animals for any length of time, and keeping that tortoise in a small habitat like that for a week or so really isn't a hardship on the animal.
> 
> The best thing you can do is print out a good care sheet, run off a few copies, and take them to the store manager, asking him if he would be so kind as to give each buyer of a tortoise one of the care sheets.



This is true but they could have used a better water dish or something , like Tom said "its a death trap"




sibi said:


> The problem with that is they are giving the buyer the wrong idea on how to keep the tort. A bowl like that can drown a tort if he flips over.
> 
> 
> Yvonne G said:
> ...



I agree with you


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## Jacqui (Nov 30, 2013)

Ashley_Sheldon said:


> Jacqui said:
> 
> 
> > I'd be willing to bet money, that Russian could climb into the waterbowl if it wanted to... and then get out of it. While this setup is not idea in our minds, for a temp setup it works and is better then many Russians out there are currently living in.  I see nothing cruel in that picture, sorry.
> ...



I stand corrected on what it is (IF that's not a Russian Testudo horsfieldii), but I in no way believe that tortoise will drown in that dish.


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## Ashley_Sheldon (Nov 30, 2013)

Jacqui said:


> sibi said:
> 
> 
> > The problem with that is they are giving the buyer the wrong idea on how to keep the tort. A bowl like that can drown a tort if he flips over.
> ...



Well this specific tortoise only gets up to about 8 inches (thats what it said on the labels) so i think he might be quite young




sibi said:


> Agreed. And the tort isn't a baby, but it can still flip in that ki d of a bowl. Yes, the store will try a d sell their products to go along with the tort, but, out of all the different bowls they ha e to offer, this one is one of the most expensive. They aren't concerned with the safety of this tort; they want you to buy their most expensive bowl. That's why they display it in the tank. I'm not against a comps y trying to make a profit; just the ones that don't really care about the health and safety of the animals in their care.
> 
> 
> Jacqui said:
> ...



I agree with this a lot and whats even more hazardous , the tortoise isnt even a baby . The Testudo tortoise only gets up to 8 inches (said that in the label)  so it's quite young




Sulcata_Sandy said:


> Well said, Jacqui.
> 
> My problem with Petco and other large stores is they have high turnover and few employees really know much. I was there yesterday, supporting my Hermit crab obsession (50% off!!!) and a customer asked a random sales associate how to stop his dog from pulling. I shoulda put money on it because, sure enough, he instructed the customer to buy a freaking harness. Uh....come ON people!!! What do sled dogs use? Horses and carriages? Not one mention of behavior, basic obedience training, offering their crappy training courses, just hand him a basic harness and walked away. Super.
> 
> ...



Thank you for standing up to Petco ! 




Jacqui said:


> sibi said:
> 
> 
> > Agreed. And the tort isn't a baby, but it can still flip in that ki d of a bowl.
> ...



Yeah they do use their most expensive products like Sibi said .


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## ascott (Nov 30, 2013)

> had some hatchlings flip in plant saucers too.



I totally agree with this....and have a couple stunt torts here that are always freaking me out....and after I offer a hand for traction they flip themselves back over and strut off like hey cool....

Jacqui is correct in pointing out that this is an old enough tort that it would be odd if it could not get out of the bowl....problem is that the dish shown is good for other reptiles (snakes, frogs and such) so an inexperienced person/clerk in the store would not think anything of it---after all, they have placed in the basics, water--food---hide....so in their mind they likely have done what the tort needs to survive (in a store where the objective is profit--not permanent)...

And yes, a tort can drown in that style of dish, yes that tort could ingest some of that substrate (I personally don't like but others use it with success---a point of preference is all) yes that tort could try climbing the glass, flip backwards, roll off the log right into the food and get its eyes full of fruity pebbles and land head first into the water---WEEELLLL, likely all of that is NOT going to happen but it certainly COULD happen....okay folks, lets not make this about who likes what dish and such and remember the thread was about the tort and a young lady in a quandary of what and if she should say something being she was a bit shy.....did I read that right? I say there are a number of variables involved here that no three people will 100% agree on....just saying is all 



> I was recently tarred and feathered for my fun and humorous thread about my big Oliver and his living room arrangements,



What yahoo gave you crap for that set up as a temp set up? Hell, some folks do that type of set up as a norm anyways.....if the tort is happy and the host is happy---who's business is it anyways. I personally dont have the shells running through the house here, but have had a CDT that needed to remain up a couple winters in a row due to his health and you bet he had some of the roost to rule....lol


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## Ashley_Sheldon (Nov 30, 2013)

Jacqui said:


> Ashley_Sheldon said:
> 
> 
> > Jacqui said:
> ...



I honestly dont know what it is , it just said "Testudo Tortoise" your probably right haha but it said they only get up to 8 inches so it might be a baby . I respect others beliefs


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## Yvonne G (Nov 30, 2013)

Ashley:

That tortoise shown in the picture is a full-grown Russian (Testudo Horsfieldii) tortoise. They don't get very big. If it's a male it is probably through growing. If it is a female it may grow a bit bigger.

It might be an idea to talk to the manager (humbly) and suggest that if they insist upon having that type of water dish in with the tortoise they might consider sinking it down into the substrate to make it easier for the tortoise to reach his neck in.

My grandson is a manager at one of the Petsmarts here in our area. He says that they have to set up the animals (the whole store, in fact) according to how the home office tells them to do it. So trying to work with what they have shown there is better than getting in their face about using different things.


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## Jacqui (Nov 30, 2013)

Yvonne G said:


> It might be an idea to talk to the manager (humbly) and suggest that if they insist upon having that type of water dish in with the tortoise they might consider sinking it down into the substrate to make it easier for the tortoise to reach his neck in.



Yes! Great idea.




Ashley_Sheldon said:


> I honestly dont know what it is , it just said "Testudo Tortoise" your probably right haha but it said they only get up to 8 inches so it might be a baby . I respect others beliefs



That might be another thing you might talk to them about: their signs. They are open to folks not knowing what they are buying. I also think your Mom should have let you speak up at the time and share your views with the store. Would it have made a difference? Most likely not, but atleast you would have known you tried. That matters a lot. You might try writing a letter to the corporation, Have you thought about doing that?


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## Cowboy_Ken (Nov 30, 2013)

Gosh, I hadn't realized it had expired. I've been running this add fairly regular and last I looked, I think I had referred 11 members. I think we all need to do this. 

http://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/pet/4221340223.html


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## tortoise5643 (Nov 30, 2013)

*Re: RE: Petsmart ..*



Jacqui said:


> Ashley_Sheldon said:
> 
> 
> > Jacqui said:
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Its a Russian testudo horsfieldii commonly referred to as a Russian tortoise and a horsfields tortoise

The stores just put testudo tortoise because that way they can keep Greeks and Russians together without having to change the label. 

I think (but don't quote me on this) thats testudo just means tortoise


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## Ashley_Sheldon (Nov 30, 2013)

ascott said:


> > had some hatchlings flip in plant saucers too.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thank you for this  




Yvonne G said:


> Ashley:
> 
> That tortoise shown in the picture is a full-grown Russian (Testudo Horsfieldii) tortoise. They don't get very big. If it's a male it is probably through growing. If it is a female it may grow a bit bigger.
> 
> ...



Thank you for your input  I'm glad to know that he's pretty much full grown ! Thanks for everything you said 




Jacqui said:


> Yvonne G said:
> 
> 
> > It might be an idea to talk to the manager (humbly) and suggest that if they insist upon having that type of water dish in with the tortoise they might consider sinking it down into the substrate to make it easier for the tortoise to reach his neck in.
> ...





Yeah thats a very misleading sign and yeah i might just try a letter 




Cowboy_Ken said:


> Gosh, I hadn't realized it had expired. I've been running this add fairly regular and last I looked, I think I had referred 11 members. I think we all need to do this.
> 
> http://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/pet/4221340223.html



Wait its an ad ? Explain more of this to me please 




ascott said:


> > had some hatchlings flip in plant saucers too.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Lol haha !  




tortoise5643 said:


> Jacqui said:
> 
> 
> > Ashley_Sheldon said:
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Ohh ok thanks for this


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## Cowboy_Ken (Nov 30, 2013)

This is an ad I run in the local Craiglist to introduce more people to the tortoise forum and to help them learn the proper care of tortoises and turtles. 

http://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/pet/4221340223.html

And it works too!


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## Ashley_Sheldon (Nov 30, 2013)

Cowboy_Ken said:


> This is an ad I run in the local Craiglist to introduce more people to the tortoise forum and to help them learn the proper care of tortoises and turtles.
> 
> http://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/pet/4221340223.html
> 
> And it works too!



Oh ok wow ! How generous of you !  I will be sure to check it out !!


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## Cutva (Dec 24, 2013)

I got my tortoise here. I went in to buy light bulbs when she was sitting there with her face pressed in a corner. They said she was fine but I knew she wasn't. So I wasn't planning on it but I couldn't just leave her! She is the happiest little guy now though!


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## Vishnu2 (Dec 29, 2013)

I am not going to read this whole post. As I probably should before I comment. 

However, being a former GM of a Petco in Dallas, Texas I will say this. This tortoise was set up in a "Show" tank for the holidays. Petco has 2 licensed Vet's that work out of California. (Not always where they should be). There are animal specialist that are actually Vet Techs that work for each region. They travel and make sure no immediate animal is in danger( weekly inspections). If a swollen eye appears for example they (the current employee) takes the animal into isolation and makes a vet appointment for the soonest day possible. (Most that day). And is no longer for sale. 

Fresh greens used to be given to all animals including Guinea pigs with fresh bell peppers. But, Petco pulled that when the cages looked less inviting by having greens all over enclosure. Petco is a corporation so they have to consider ALL reptiles not just the tortoises. So, when a lizard shows aggression over food, pellets are then given. It's also a cost thing. The pellets are a Petco brand given. Believe it or not some tortoises like that food and some lizards. 

The water bowl is typically NOT filled to the top with water and the substrate should of been around a smaller bowl. I agree. Not the best idea. As for the terra cotta dishes. Petco used to use them. The water soaked through and caused mold. 

However, as a GM I did listen to my customers and their concerns. Petco, offers Care sheets. They're even offered on their website or was when I worked for them. In all my years @ Petco I had 7 people complain about the care of the reptiles. When I gave them my opinion of how to care for the Russian, Greek or RES they went and bought sand anyway. There is only so much a Petco employee can do. When you purchase OR adopt an animal it's up to you. I gave my personal opinion and most didn't follow my advice. Why you may ask? Because they didn't want to hear their new tortoise or reptile needed a bigger habitat which would cost them more money or more time (to make or to clean). 

I as a GM even refused sales to some. I can't speak for all GM's. I can only speak for what I did. As a former GM I apologize that you felt upset, you totally should of spoken to someone. Their job is to listen. Changes have been made in animal care due to customer input just so you know. 

Thanks!




Yvonne G said:


> Ashley:
> 
> That tortoise shown in the picture is a full-grown Russian (Testudo Horsfieldii) tortoise. They don't get very big. If it's a male it is probably through growing. If it is a female it may grow a bit bigger.
> 
> ...



Your grandson is correct. The veterinarians decide in Cali how things should go. GM's do have a small say depending on their state. I being in Texas at one time could do certain things with my enclosures that people in Colorado for instance couldn't change. It depends on the state and the animal advisor.


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## BeeBee*BeeLeaves (Dec 29, 2013)

I have the email to my area's district managers for both PetCo and PetSmart and I use it. I write them. Not often, but when I see something that can be improved upon or brought to their attention. Tortoises, of course. They thank me for sharing my concerns. Every time, they have responded with nice emails back and grateful. I know one of them trolls here, cause she told me. I invited her to peek in. It all began with my two little Greeks I got in 2012 at PetSmart. Which led me to TFO since I knew not what I had gotten myself into. I was guilty of falling for them on a trip to get dog food and plants for a water garden. Bam! My point is that it is a great opportunity to educate others. Understandably, the stores have a bottom line and share holders, but everyone can learn and in time it will make a difference. If I have to, I write CEOs or the Chairman of the Board. You would be surprise how they do listen to passionate consumers. : )


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