# Normal growth? Help me :(



## thegame2388 (Mar 27, 2014)

So I've had my tortoise since late January...and I was wondering if its size/weight is okay. The previous owner said it hatched in late August, meaning I had gotten it at 5 months and it is now 7 months old. 



January 30: 48.7g
February 6: 52.6g
February 13: 58.7g
February 20: 67.9g
February 27: 76.1g
March 6: 83.2g
March 13: 90.1g
March 20 99.6g
March 27: 97.5g (he lost 2 grams??? what???)

The pictures posted are from today's weigh-in of 97.5g which is 2g less than last weeks....which kinda freaks me out. Only explanation is that he took a poo and maybe that's it...either way, I was expecting him to be 105g+


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## wellington (Mar 27, 2014)

Looks good to me. A poop will do it. As long as he doesn't just keep losing, there really isn't nothing to worry about. They all grow at their own pace, so can't really say what's normal size for that age.


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## Saleama (Mar 27, 2014)

My 9 month old Sulcatas are between 150grams and 325 gram so yeah, they grow at different rates. As long as growth is steady or doesn't drop dramatically. Believe me, when he takes off, you will wonder what you were ever worried about. Try feeding more and more often. Mine went from a small amount to enough so they didn't eat it all and the difference was amazing! Are you feeding every day?


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## WillTort2 (Mar 27, 2014)

The tort looks fine.

The first picture is quite sharp. What type of camera are you using?


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## Tom (Mar 27, 2014)

If I recall, he didn't have the best start. 48 grams for a 5 month old is tiny. But the new growth while you have had him looks pretty promising. It is a good indicator that things are okay and this one is going to make it and be fine. He'll hit a growth spurt soon enough. Don't worry about 2 grams one way or the other.

See all those hairs on your carpet? That's why you don't put them down on the carpet.


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## thegame2388 (Mar 27, 2014)

Tom said:


> If I recall, he didn't have the best start. 48 grams for a 5 month old is tiny. But the new growth while you have had him looks pretty promising. It is a good indicator that things are okay and this one is going to make it and be fine. He'll hit a growth spurt soon enough. Don't worry about 2 grams one way or the other.
> 
> See all those hairs on your carpet? That's why you don't put them down on the carpet.



Yes the hair on the carpet just happened to be there. The tort was just modeling for the camera 

I feed him enough so that there's enough left over everyday. He loves the greens! Doesn't like the Mazuri tho  Never eats it


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## ascott (Mar 27, 2014)

If he does not like the mazuri then that is aok....just means you will need to research greens more to assure you offer the best rounded variety.....

There are no two torts that grow identical...none. So, if the tort is healthy (eating, drinking, basking, exercising) then do not worry about the actual size in comparison to others...each is their own.


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## Cowboy_Ken (Mar 27, 2014)

Here are my Little Ricky's numbers. Double numbers are from his sibling. 

Little Ricky weight. 

10/09. 4-5weeks old
63
65

10/16
68
70

10/24
71
73

10/31
78
81

11/7
86
88

11/14
90

11/23
93

11/28
103

12/05
113

12/14
123

12/25
125

1/6
143

1/25
170

2/5
192

2/21
224

3/1
233

3/10
268

3/14
283 4 -1/2" @6monthish 

3/20
290

3/27
307

4/6
327

4/21
365

5/24
422

6/9
474

7/20
558

12/14/13
1lb. 12ozs







Tortoise weights in grams
10/09. 4-5weeks old
63
65

10/16
68
70

10/24
71
73

10/31
78
81

11/7
86
88

11/14
90

11/23
93

11/28
103

12/05
113

12/14
123

12/25
125

1/6
143

1/25
170

2/5
192

2/21
224

3/1
233

3/10
268

3/14
283 4 -1/2" @6monthish 

3/20
290

3/27
307

4/6
327

4/21
365

5/24
422

6/9
474

7/20
558

12/14/13
1lb. 12ozs.


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## thegame2388 (Mar 28, 2014)

How can your tort be nearly 2.5x mine (grams wize) at the same age? That's a huge difference!


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## Cowboy_Ken (Mar 28, 2014)

They all grow at different rates. Well that and Little Ricky was raised on good old fashioned Oregon weeds.


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## Tom (Mar 28, 2014)

thegame2388 said:


> How can your tort be nearly 2.5x mine (grams wize) at the same age? That's a huge difference!



The start they get in their first few weeks makes a huge difference. When they are kept dry and dehydrated they grow very slowly, and many don't survive. When they are kept warm, humid and well hydrated, they all survive, thrive and grow at a more normal pace.

This is why I'm always nagging at people to buy from a source that starts them right, and there really are not too many, even today.


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## Cowboy_Ken (Mar 28, 2014)

All that Tom says is truth. Tom, Little Ricky looks pretty good, huh?


Even sticking his tongue out at the camera. There's one in ever crowd.


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## Tom (Mar 28, 2014)

Cowboy_Ken said:


> Tom, Little Ricky looks pretty good, huh?



This question puts me in an awkward position Ken. If I say no, I'm a liar. If I say yes, I'm a loud-mouthed braggart... 

He doesn't look "pretty good". He looks fan-frickin'-tastic! YOU have done a fine job.


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## thegame2388 (Mar 28, 2014)

Geez he looks huge for being the same age!


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## Cowboy_Ken (Mar 28, 2014)

I'll take a picture of him in my hand. You do the same.




Well he was so happy I did that, NOT!!!


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## T33's Torts (Mar 28, 2014)

Aw Ken! You done made him mad!


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## Cowboy_Ken (Mar 28, 2014)

Notice what looks like water on my sleeve? Nope, not water.


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## Tom (Mar 28, 2014)

As my Italian in-laws frequently say: "Peace on you!"


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## T33's Torts (Mar 28, 2014)

Wonderful. Might wanna wash that.


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## thegame2388 (Mar 31, 2014)

New question:

I have his greens, kale, whatever in his bowl but I feel like they "wilt" after a few hours, how do I prevent this? Move the food plate away from the UVB light?


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## Cowboy_Ken (Mar 31, 2014)

That would help, but really, if proper temps are kept in the enclosure any self respecting green would wilt. What I do that maybe you could try, is I take a shovelful of weeds and grass with about 2" of soil attached. I put this shovelful of food right in the habitat and Little Ricky eats on it when he wants. This works for me because I have five acres of mixed pasture grasses and weeds and you don't notice the void unless you are out in the pasture looking for it.


That is one of my pancake tortoises enjoying just what I described.


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## thegame2388 (Apr 2, 2014)

Cowboy_Ken said:


> That would help, but really, if proper temps are kept in the enclosure any self respecting green would wilt. What I do that maybe you could try, is I take a shovelful of weeds and grass with about 2" of soil attached. I put this shovelful of food right in the habitat and Little Ricky eats on it when he wants. This works for me because I have five acres of mixed pasture grasses and weeds and you don't notice the void unless you are out in the pasture looking for it.
> That is one of my pancake tortoises enjoying just what I described.



Ah well mine is still tiny and lives in his indoor enclosure.


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## Cowboy_Ken (Apr 2, 2014)

thegame2388 said:


> Ah well mine is still tiny and lives in his indoor enclosure.



Little Ricky, also lives for the most part inside. This summer he will start spending, what pass for, â€œnice" days outside. 
I am, like you I'm sure, probably a bit over protective of Little Ricky. Once he turned about 12 months I started feeding him more grass. He wouldn't eat it while inside, but when I would take him out for supervised grazing in the yard he would go at the grass with gusto. Only when I started feeding the shovelfuls of soil/grass in his indoor enclosure did he start to eat the grass in his indoor enclosure. I encourage you, if at all possible, to give this feeding style a try. Yes you will get some bugs in your enclosure, maybe even...eeek! A spider! But I'm just saying your little one will thank you. Just make sure the area is not treated with anything. Weed killer,fertilizer, soil improvement stuff. Keep in touch and keep posting pictures of your little one.


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## Livingstone (Apr 2, 2014)

I have to comment only because it makes me laugh when people are concerned their sulcata isn't keeping up with the Jones's and Thomas's. Be happy you don't have a 1 year old that ways 8lbs because you are already in for a giant shock 13 years from now, and believe me whatever you may think about the coolness of huge sulcata's (they are cool) nothing will prepare you for whats coming your way. They may only be the third largest land tortoise but neither aldabs or galaps are diggers, and neither of them have the disposition of a sulcata. So be happy your on the small end and concentrate on doing it right, not doing it fast.


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## thegame2388 (Apr 2, 2014)

Livingstone said:


> I have to comment only because it makes me laugh when people are concerned their sulcata isn't keeping up with the Jones's and Thomas's. Be happy you don't have a 1 year old that ways 8lbs because you are already in for a giant shock 13 years from now, and believe me whatever you may think about the coolness of huge sulcata's (they are cool) nothing will prepare you for whats coming your way. They may only be the third largest land tortoise but neither aldabs or galaps are diggers, and neither of them have the disposition of a sulcata. So be happy your on the small end and concentrate on doing it right, not doing it fast.



They are full grown at 13 years? I've seen some pretty big ones at 3-4-5 years old.


I'd love for my year-old to be 8lbs!


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## thegame2388 (Jun 19, 2014)

June 19th UPDATE: Last measurement I posted on this forum was in late March. Let me know if these new stats are up to par for its age (~10 months old). These are his measurements since then:

April 3: 115.6g
April 10: 119.4g
April 17: 119.9g
April 24: 122.0g
May 1: 137.6g
May 8: 143.3g
May 15: 156.6g
May 22: 169.2g
May 29: 181.1g
June 5: 192.3g
June 12: 201.7g
June 19: 227.7g

Pictures from June 19th:


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## Tom (Jun 19, 2014)

The new growth is coming in better. Weights are fine for his age, given the circumstances.


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## thegame2388 (Jun 24, 2014)

Thanks. It's a cutie pie right now.


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## thegame2388 (Aug 30, 2014)

*UPDATE*:

He's officially a year old now! Happy Birthday!

And as of his last weigh-in, it weighs 421g.

Is that normal and nice growth?

Thanks.


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## Tom (Aug 30, 2014)

421 is just fine. He's catching up after a slow start. Nicely done.


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## thegame2388 (Aug 31, 2014)

Tom said:


> 421 is just fine. He's catching up after a slow start. Nicely done.



Thank you!!!


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## thegame2388 (Sep 20, 2014)

NEW UPDATE AS OF SEPTEMBER 20th 2014!

He/She is now 13 months only (1 year and 1 month!) and here are the latest stats alongside new pictures. Any comment is appreciate!

June 26: 234.0g
July 3: 248.3g
July 10: 276.0g
July 21: 300.5g
July 24: 313.1g
July 28: 326.2g
August 2: 340.8g
August 6: 363.8g
August 13: 383.0g
August 18: 391.7g
August 21:402.3g
August 28: 421.0g
September 6: 460.9g
September 15: 499.8g
September 20: 527.6g


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## lismar79 (Sep 21, 2014)

Awww, he's looking good! Our babies are the same age


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## thegame2388 (Sep 21, 2014)

Haha thanks! I wonder what Tom thinks!


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## thegame2388 (Oct 4, 2014)

Bump?


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## thegame2388 (Nov 30, 2014)

UPDATE: (17 months old)

September 27: 589.0g
October 6: 625.4g
October 14: 657.9g
October 26: 766g
November 3: 844g
November 8: 864g
November 17: 872g
November 23: 917g
November 29: 972g


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## Tom (Nov 30, 2014)

New growth looks great.


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## thegame2388 (Dec 1, 2014)

Thank you!


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## thegame2388 (Mar 13, 2015)

UPDATE 3/13/2015:

December 5: 1024g
December 15: 1130g
December 31: 1134g
January 13: 1270g
February 2: 1277g
February 28: 1548g
March 10: 1600g


















































Comments:
1. He/she is full-time outside 24/7 with the proper night box set up with heater, UVB, you name it. 
2. It has the entire backyard to itself which is pretty ginormous
3. It has learned (thank God!) on its own to come back to its night box at the appropriate times for sleep. 
4. Only concern is 20% low humidity...but since the nightbox is closed shut at night time, I have now decided to make the humidifer turn on ONLY during night when he's actually in the damn box sleeping as opposed to having it on during the day time (on a humidistat) when he's roaming the backyard or whatever. 
5. Not sure but seems like his weight has slowed down...next weigh in could come at around 1650-1700g.
6. The sulcata turns 2 years old in August so he's about 1.5 years now. 
image hosting site over 5mb


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## lismar79 (Mar 13, 2015)

He's looking really good. Great job! So much smoother then when you first got him.


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## Jodie (Mar 13, 2015)

Wow. Absolutely beautiful tortoise! Great job. This was a neat thread to read through.


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## thegame2388 (Mar 13, 2015)

lismar79 said:


> He's looking really good. Great job! So much smoother then when you first got him.



Any thought on the comments I wrote out in the last post?


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## lismar79 (Mar 14, 2015)

At his size I would still want the high humidity, as long as your night box is 80 plus degrees, I would use it at night


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## Tom (Mar 14, 2015)

The new growth looks great.

Every time I move one outside full time the growth slows tremendously for a while, even though temperatures are the same and they are already used to being outside most of the day. I don't know what does it. Keeping the night box humid and warm will help a lot.


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## Team Gomberg (Mar 14, 2015)

Just curious... Why do you use UV lighting in the box? Or did I miss understand that.


thegame2388 said:


> Comments:
> 1. He/she is full-time outside 24/7 with the proper night box set up with heater, UVB, you name it.


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## thegame2388 (Mar 14, 2015)

Tom said:


> The new growth looks great.
> 
> Every time I move one outside full time the growth slows tremendously for a while, even though temperatures are the same and they are already used to being outside most of the day. I don't know what does it. Keeping the night box humid and warm will help a lot.



Thanks! Yeah it seems to me the growth has slowed, but maybe it's just me. I'll have to recheck its weight next week. Humidity is maintained at night only since that's the only time he's inside his box full time. Otherwise, its just roaming around during the day when it's 20% humidity outside in Southern California.


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## thegame2388 (Mar 14, 2015)

Team Gomberg said:


> Just curious... Why do you use UV lighting in the box? Or did I miss understand that.



Because he stills basks under the light to heat himself him. The UV light REALLY ups the heat during the day (so the oil heater never even turns on). This time of the year, the inside of his box is like 90-95F but he's normally outside. During the summer, I anticipate box temps to go into 120-130F (with the UV light on during day time), so I'm just going to remove it for those months.


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## thegame2388 (Mar 19, 2015)

Tom said:


> The new growth looks great.
> 
> Every time I move one outside full time the growth slows tremendously for a while, even though temperatures are the same and they are already used to being outside most of the day. I don't know what does it. Keeping the night box humid and warm will help a lot.



My tort was about 1540g on Feb. 28th and now he's only 1611g. He was 1600g last week. I don't know why the growth is slowing down. I hope I'm not doing anything wrong. He was growing like crazy previously.


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## Tom (Mar 19, 2015)

thegame2388 said:


> My tort was about 1540g on Feb. 28th and now he's only 1611g. He was 1600g last week. I don't know why the growth is slowing down. I hope I'm not doing anything wrong. He was growing like crazy previously.



He's living outside full time now, right? All of mine slow down tremendously when they move outside full time. In about another 8-12 months the growth rate will pick back up and soon after that you'll be wishing it would slow back down...


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## thegame2388 (Mar 19, 2015)

Tom said:


> He's living outside full time now, right? All of mine slow down tremendously when they move outside full time. In about another 8-12 months the growth rate will pick back up and soon after that you'll be wishing it would slow back down...



Yes full time outside. What is it about the outside that makes them slowdown? Only thing I can think is that they're not surrounded by 80F/80% humidity all the time compared to indoor enclosure. Perhaps more exercise? 8-12 months is more waiting ahhhh


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## Tom (Mar 19, 2015)

thegame2388 said:


> Yes full time outside. What is it about the outside that makes them slowdown? Only thing I can think is that they're not surrounded by 80F/80% humidity all the time compared to indoor enclosure. Perhaps more exercise? 8-12 months is more waiting ahhhh



I have pondered this for years. I have no answer.

My 8-9" sulcatas are outside for most of every day in the same enclosure they will move into full time. They come inside to sleep, or during inclement weather they stay inside. When I start leaving them outside overnight, I offer lots of food and I make their night boxes the same temperature as their indoor enclosures. They still get locked up in the box every night. They have the option of staying outside later or going out earlier once they move outside. This might briefly subject them to cooler temperatures than they had previously experienced, but they still sleep warm all night and can warm up in the sun all day.

Tortoises don't seem to like any sort of change in their routine. This "change of their familiar routine" is the only thing I can think of to explain this. The stress of the new routine, hampers their growth until they get used to it. I sometimes see the same thing when I get a new tortoise, or ship out one of mine. This is my best guess so far.


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## thegame2388 (Mar 19, 2015)

Tom said:


> I have pondered this for years. I have no answer.
> 
> My 8-9" sulcatas are outside for most of every day in the same enclosure they will move into full time. They come inside to sleep, or during inclement weather they stay inside. When I start leaving them outside overnight, I offer lots of food and I make their night boxes the same temperature as their indoor enclosures. They still get locked up in the box every night. They have the option of staying outside later or going out earlier once they move outside. This might briefly subject them to cooler temperatures than they had previously experienced, but they still sleep warm all night and can warm up in the sun all day.
> 
> Tortoises don't seem to like any sort of change in their routine. This "change of their familiar routine" is the only thing I can think of to explain this. The stress of the new routine, hampers their growth until they get used to it. I sometimes see the same thing when I get a new tortoise, or ship out one of mine. This is my best guess so far.



Sounds reasonable. I do the same thing for my box. It is set to 84F and it maintains that temperature just fine. My only guess is that in their indoor enclosure, they were subject to ideal conditions (80F/80% humidity) 24/7 while outside, everything is ideal but the humidity. That's my only explanation. To combat this, I've set the humidifier to turn on to 75% at night time and maintain until 8am once the sun's out.


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## Tom (Mar 19, 2015)

84 degrees with 75% humidity sounds good to me. That should yield a heathy young tortoise and continue giving you smooth growth, once he starts growing again.


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## thegame2388 (Mar 19, 2015)

Tom said:


> 84 degrees with 75% humidity sounds good to me. That should yield a heathy young tortoise and continue giving you smooth growth, once he starts growing again.



Will do. However, let's not forget: those conditions are during the hours of 8pm-8am when he's inside sleeping the night away.


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## thegame2388 (Jun 30, 2015)

UPDATE 6/30/2015:

March 18: 1611g
April 7: 1774g
April 20: 1870g
May 12: 2050g
June 30: 2573g










































































Notes:

1. As previously noted, he/she lives outside 24/7 with everything set up properly.
2. It's getting to about 100-110F in the Southern California inland region; sometimes I fee like "there's now way this tortoise can tolerate this", but then I think about its original environment in central Africa and rationalize it. The fact that they're cold-blooded also help but my God, it's hot!
3. Use of basking light is limited to only 1 hour in the morning to "wake him/her" up, but the rest comes from direct sunlight in California
4. Increasing normal weight. Looks to be about 3000g fairly soon. Tort turns two years old in late August.
5. In the later pictures, I noticed some flaky, white, perhaps dry portions of his shell...not sure if's normal or as a result of the heat if he's just scratching himself when he goes in his "room" within the enclosure or when he's outside going under various backyard sheds.

Any thoughts, comments, concerns? Thank


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## MPRC (Jun 30, 2015)

Hey, uh, you've got a little something on your face. 

Cute tort, looks like he took off!


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## thegame2388 (Jun 30, 2015)

Anyone else? I'd like feedback particularly on my notes at the end.


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## DawnH (Jun 30, 2015)

He is just adorable and pretty darn close to my guy in age (I think a month off!) I would just make sure you hose down his area during the day to keep it cool. When it is horrible I out I will do a night time soak before Tuleo comes in (my guy is not outside full time yet) just to make sure he is hydrated. Your baby is PRECIOUS and you are doing such a great job with him!


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## Team Gomberg (Jun 30, 2015)

Looks like typical scratches and abrasions to me. Nothing I'd be worried about.

It's hot in Africa yes but these guys are recorded as spending a lot of time in cooler underground retreats. I hope yours has access to hides that are cooler than the ambient temps. Underground hides, mud pits, misters or sprinklers. 

It's been 100-107°F here is southern Oregon all week. I've been running the sprinklers a few times throughout the day to help cool my tortoise.


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## thegame2388 (Jun 30, 2015)

Team Gomberg said:


> Looks like typical scratches and abrasions to me. Nothing I'd be worried about.
> 
> It's hot in Africa yes but these guys are recorded as spending a lot of time in cooler underground retreats. I hope yours has access to hides that are cooler than the ambient temps. Underground hides, mud pits, misters or sprinklers.
> 
> It's been 100-107°F here is southern Oregon all week. I've been running the sprinklers a few times throughout the day to help cool my tortoise.



Yes he usually goes under this shed made out of wood and just hangs out there. Sometimes I think it's even hotter THERE...but who knows?


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## Jodie (Jul 1, 2015)

I use my temp gun outside and take regular reading of all the hides and boxes. You would be surprised how much cooler some spots are than others. If you don't have a temp gun, you can get them affordably at Home Depot or Lowe's.


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## Tom (Jul 1, 2015)

thegame2388 said:


> Notes:
> 
> 1. As previously noted, he/she lives outside 24/7 with everything set up properly.
> 2. It's getting to about 100-110F in the Southern California inland region; sometimes I fee like "there's now way this tortoise can tolerate this", but then I think about its original environment in central Africa and rationalize it. The fact that they're cold-blooded also help but my God, it's hot!
> ...



First off he looks great.

1. He is a good size for living outside full time now.
2. "Cold-Blooded" only means that his temp is the same as the ambient around him unless he uses a heat source like the sun or a heat lamp. It does not keep them cooler. The above ground temperature in Africa where they come from has nothing to do with anything. They are underground over there 95-98% of the time. Your tortoise CANNOT tolerate 110 degree heat without someplace cool to retreat to. This can be accomplished many ways, but underground is the best way. Here are some examples:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/daisys-new-enclosure.28662/
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/semi-underground-russian-box.98590/
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/sulcata-burrows.50846/
You need to know what the temperature under that shed is. If its not cool enough, you will need to make other arrangements.
3. No need for the basking light this time of year. Really at his size and in your area, you don't need it at all anymore.
4. That is good weight.
5. That rough growth around the sides and the white flaky-ness is the result of something here in our Southern CA environment. I don't see that on AZ, FL or TX tortoises. I see it on all the CA tortoises, including my own. I hate it, but don't know how to fix it. I think it is just too dry here.


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## thegame2388 (Jul 1, 2015)

Jodie said:


> I use my temp gun outside and take regular reading of all the hides and boxes. You would be surprised how much cooler some spots are than others. If you don't have a temp gun, you can get them affordably at Home Depot or Lowe's.



Can't really gauge the difference between under wood piece vs. outside today since it's overcast and about 93F outside. Under the little plywood he hides under, it's about 74F....so if you did the math, that's a 20% reduction. When it's 110F outside, it should be 88F under the plywood? Who knows...I'll check when it's sunny tomorrow.


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## thegame2388 (Jul 1, 2015)

Tom said:


> First off he looks great.
> 
> 1. He is a good size for living outside full time now.
> 2. "Cold-Blooded" only means that his temp is the same as the ambient around him unless he uses a heat source like the sun or a heat lamp. It does not keep them cooler. The above ground temperature in Africa where they come from has nothing to do with anything. They are underground over there 95-98% of the time. Your tortoise CANNOT tolerate 110 degree heat without someplace cool to retreat to. This can be accomplished many ways, but underground is the best way. Here are some examples:
> ...



1. Thanks.
2. Right now, I'm not worried about being too cold...it's the opposite: being too hot. Not at night, but during the day when it peaks at around 105F in Riverside county. I do have three of these: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B003MOD2HY/?tag=exoticpetnetw-20 where I can perhaps create some sort of "burrow" or kinda just put dirt around the inside of his night box (wouldn't really do anything, not enough to burrow under, it would just elevate the ground level). Nevertheless, when you say that they need cool spots to retreat to, assuming the normal outside temp is 110F, do you mean "cool" like 100F or 90F or something like 80F?
3. No basking light at all (even winter time?) or do you mean just during the summer? 
4. Thanks again
5. Yeah no clue. Just figured it's scratches or something. Humidity is at near 80% during sleeping hours. No idea how to fix it either.


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## Tom (Jul 1, 2015)

thegame2388 said:


> 1. Thanks.
> 2. Right now, I'm not worried about being too cold...it's the opposite: being too hot. Not at night, but during the day when it peaks at around 105F in Riverside county. I do have three of these: http://www.amazon.com/Kempf-Compressed-Growing-Potting-11-Pound/dp/B003MOD2HY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1435784091&sr=8-1&keywords=coco coir where I can perhaps create some sort of "burrow" or kinda just put dirt around the inside of his night box (wouldn't really do anything, not enough to burrow under, it would just elevate the ground level). Nevertheless, when you say that they need cool spots to retreat to, assuming the normal outside temp is 110F, do you mean "cool" like 100F or 90F or something like 80F?
> 3. No basking light at all (even winter time?) or do you mean just during the summer?
> 4. Thanks again
> 5. Yeah no clue. Just figured it's scratches or something. Humidity is at near 80% during sleeping hours. No idea how to fix it either.



2. When I say somewhere cooler I mean a spot that is low 90's or lower. Underground works perfectly for this. We've been having the same weather as you and that russian box that I linked above stays no higher than 85ish on all these 100+ days. Something like that would be ideal for your sulcata.
3. No need for any basking light at all anymore. Living outside the sun is his basking light. During the occasional cold winter days he can stay in his warm box most of the day. I open my doors around 9am or even 10 am on those really cold mornings. They come out when they feel like it, find a sunny spot for basking, graze on the winter weeds, and then go back into their box when they feel like it. Been doing it this way for almost 15 years.


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## thegame2388 (Jul 1, 2015)

Tom said:


> 2. When I say somewhere cooler I mean a spot that is low 90's or lower. Underground works perfectly for this. We've been having the same weather as you and that russian box that I linked above stays no higher than 85ish on all these 100+ days. Something like that would be ideal for your sulcata.
> 3. No need for any basking light at all anymore. Living outside the sun is his basking light. During the occasional cold winter days he can stay in his warm box most of the day. I open my doors around 9am or even 10 am on those really cold mornings. They come out when they feel like it, find a sunny spot for basking, graze on the winter weeds, and then go back into their box when they feel like it. Been doing it this way for almost 15 years.



I'll use the temp gun tomorrow hopefully when it's blazing hot and see where he can hide....creating something underground is pretty unrealistic at this point considering I live in a pretty big, yet very normal Southern California home and our backyard is very typical. I'll figure something out. There are TONS of spots for him to hide under so I'm not worried about that.

As for the light, I mainly used it as a wake-up mechanism for him to leave his room within the enclosure but I'll guess I'll take that out completely.


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## Tom (Jul 1, 2015)

Above ground hiding spots are all the above ground temperature, which is too hot.

Why is it unrealistic to dig a hole and put a wooden box with a lid in it? I dig holes in my southern CA yard all the time.

You can also start a hole where you want it to be, and let him dig his own burrow. Just cover it up with plywood from about October to June and make him use the heated night box during that time.


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## thegame2388 (Jul 1, 2015)

Tom said:


> Above ground hiding spots are all the above ground temperature, which is too hot.
> 
> Why is it unrealistic to dig a hole and put a wooden box with a lid in it? I dig holes in my southern CA yard all the time.
> 
> You can also start a hole where you want it to be, and let him dig his own burrow. Just cover it up with plywood from about October to June and make him use the heated night box during that time.



Because I can't dig a big enough hole that will accomodate a 8-9 inch tort. A hole is actually easy...the box is harder. Regardless, I'll check the temps through the summer hot months. We'll see. Riverside country rarely exceeds 105F.


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## Team Gomberg (Jul 2, 2015)

When I lived in SoCal, as a renter, I couldn't dig a big hole either. But I knew how important it was for my 13" desert tortoise to have a underground/cooler (90°f or less) hiding spot.
So, I built a burrow into an above ground planter box! It worked wonderfully! Temps stayed in the 80°s even on the +100° days. In fact another forum member in AZ did the same thing for her Sulcata. She didn't want to burrow underground so she used mine as an example. Her adult Sulcata loved it and was finally able to keep cool.

Google raised planter boxes. Get an idea of what those are like.
Basically, I made a box with scrap plywood. No bottom, just 3 walls and a roof. The missing wall was the door way. I set this box directly on top of the ground. No digging. Then I built the planter box around this box. I used bricks and left the one side open where the door would be. I put some plastic over the wood roof so water wouldn't leak in and then had soil fill in on the sides of the box and a few inches on top too. I really hope this is making sense..lol.. I have a thread about it but I can't link to other threads while on my phone. You'd have to search for it.
From my porch it looked like a regular planter box. But from the side you could see an opening and it led to the 3ft deep burrow. The tortoise was always in there in hot weather. In my thread I even recorded temps and discussed it. You should check it out...
I'm thinking of doing the same thing here since it's been so hot lately.

http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/new-outdoor-cdt-burrow.90324/
There I figured it out for you.. Hope it helps


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## thegame2388 (Jul 3, 2015)

Team Gomberg said:


> When I lived in SoCal, as a renter, I couldn't dig a big hole either. But I knew how important it was for my 13" desert tortoise to have a underground/cooler (90°f or less) hiding spot.
> So, I built a burrow into an above ground planter box! It worked wonderfully! Temps stayed in the 80°s even on the +100° days. In fact another forum member in AZ did the same thing for her Sulcata. She didn't want to burrow underground so she used mine as an example. Her adult Sulcata loved it and was finally able to keep cool.
> 
> Google raised planter boxes. Get an idea of what those are like.
> ...




Thanks for the advice. I'll def look into it. We have trees and shade all over the place. The sprinklers even turn on at 7PM but that's usually when it's not even that hot anyway. I'm more concerned about the 1-5PM time frame. Maybe I'm overthinking the heat issue. It's currently 90-95F outside according to three different websites, so heat isn't a problem for the sulcata. Regardless, this is the wood area shade hole I was talking about earlier:


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## Tom (Jul 3, 2015)

Temperature looks good down there, but its not good for tortoises to be on concrete too much. Too abrasive. Can you put down some substrate, a rubber horse mat, indoor outdoor carpeting, or something to cushion him?


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## thegame2388 (Jul 3, 2015)

Tom said:


> Temperature looks good down there, but its not good for tortoises to be on concrete too much. Too abrasive. Can you put down some substrate, a rubber horse mat, indoor outdoor carpeting, or something to cushion him?



Yeah perhaps, tons of scrappy little stuff here and there. I'll look into it. The temperature in our area is about 90F so 86F in the cool spot isn't super cool regardless. I'd like to see how it holds up when it's 110F (super rare, but it happens).


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## thegame2388 (Jul 4, 2015)

Tom said:


> Temperature looks good down there, but its not good for tortoises to be on concrete too much. Too abrasive. Can you put down some substrate, a rubber horse mat, indoor outdoor carpeting, or something to cushion him?



Out of curiosity, what should the depth of the man-made burrow be? I was thinking something like 2 feet but obviously it wouldnt't be 2 feet straight down but rather at a diagonal slope/include so the tort can come in/out. So what's the magic number? 2 feet? 3 feet?


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## Tom (Jul 4, 2015)

Even one foot would be good if you put enough dirt and stuff over the top. The deeper you go the cooler it will be. The idea is to get away from the surface. I think two or three feet will work very well. That russian box I linked for you is only down about 17" and it works well.


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## thegame2388 (Jul 5, 2015)

Tom said:


> Even one foot would be good if you put enough dirt and stuff over the top. The deeper you go the cooler it will be. The idea is to get away from the surface. I think two or three feet will work very well. That russian box I linked for you is only down about 17" and it works well.



I'll try tomorrow. I'm trying to make it big enough so it'll last years, not months. Wouldn't want him to outgrow it. I plan on putting some storage box or bricks or something down there so it'll be a fixed size, not really upgradeable.


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## Tom (Jul 5, 2015)

Cool! Show us what you come up with. We all get inspiration from what everyone else does.


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## thegame2388 (Jul 5, 2015)

Tom said:


> Cool! Show us what you come up with. We all get inspiration from what everyone else does.



But it makes sense what I'm doing? I always thought if the tort doesn't burrow itself, then I'm probably keeping the temps right...I've never seen him burrow and he's nearly 2. 

As far as size and depth of the burrow, I'd like to make it last so I think I'll create something 2ftx2ft and make it 1 ft deep with holes in the bottom of the box to drain out rain water.


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## Tom (Jul 5, 2015)

thegame2388 said:


> But it makes sense what I'm doing? I always thought if the tort doesn't burrow itself, then I'm probably keeping the temps right...I've never seen him burrow and he's nearly 2.
> 
> As far as size and depth of the burrow, I'd like to make it last so I think I'll create something 2ftx2ft and make it 1 ft deep with holes in the bottom of the box to drain out rain water.



Some of them never try to burrow. Most of them don't try to burrow until they are 12-14" long and even them some don't. I'll bet if you started a burrow for him the right way in the middle of the yard he'd take to it like a fish in water.

Your plan sounds good to me. Hopefully with the right entry and entrance cover, rainwater won't go down there. It doesn't in mine.


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## thegame2388 (Jul 5, 2015)

Tom said:


> Some of them never try to burrow. Most of them don't try to burrow until they are 12-14" long and even them some don't. I'll bet if you started a burrow for him the right way in the middle of the yard he'd take to it like a fish in water.
> 
> Your plan sounds good to me. Hopefully with the right entry and entrance cover, rainwater won't go down there. It doesn't in mine.



Are you sure I even need one? To escape heat? He already has that as the previous posts showed...and it's July so it's really not going to get any hotter than it already is. He usually hangs out all over the yard but mainly but that wood against the wall thing. The low gets to about 70F so it's fine in that sense. 

If it's for the winter, he already has his perfect outdoor nightbox that heats to the correct temperature.

Who knows.


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## Tom (Jul 5, 2015)

thegame2388 said:


> Are you sure I even need one? To escape heat? He already has that as the previous posts showed...and it's July so it's really not going to get any hotter than it already is. He usually hangs out all over the yard but mainly but that wood against the wall thing. The low gets to about 70F so it's fine in that sense.
> 
> If it's for the winter, he already has his perfect outdoor nightbox that heats to the correct temperature.
> 
> Who knows.



Yes. He needs a place to cool off better than those old boards leaned up against the house on the concrete at surface level. You know we will have 100+ temps well into September. August tends to be our hottest month.

Get busy digging Mister Man!!!


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## Cowboy_Ken (Jul 5, 2015)

thegame2388 said:


> and it's July so it's really not going to get any hotter than it already is.


Oh sure. Now you've done it! I'm telling my friends and family to get out while they can still use water. Can't wait to see what temps will be like in October now. Tom, time to move.


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## thegame2388 (Jul 5, 2015)

Tom said:


> Yes. He needs a place to cool off better than those old boards leaned up against the house on the concrete at surface level. You know we will have 100+ temps well into September. August tends to be our hottest month.
> 
> Get busy digging Mister Man!!!



Digging a 2x2 hole...1.5feet deep is harder than I thought....it's getting difficult to dig it out. Shall resume tomorrow. Any advice on the upgradeability factor? How tall/wide should I make the entrance?


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## Tom (Jul 5, 2015)

thegame2388 said:


> Digging a 2x2 hole...1.5feet deep is harder than I thought....it's getting difficult to dig it out. Shall resume tomorrow. Any advice on the upgradeability factor? How tall/wide should I make the entrance?



In the summer I do my hard labor first thing in the morning. Here in SoCal we get cold nights and mornings, even in the heat of summer. Soon you will understand the value of a good digging bar. 

I would make the hole, fit your underground tortoise house in it the way you want it, then add on the entrance tunnel and entrance hole cover. This way you can measure it all out and make everything fit together correctly.


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## thegame2388 (Jul 5, 2015)

Tom said:


> In the summer I do my hard labor first thing in the morning. Here in SoCal we get cold nights and mornings, even in the heat of summer. Soon you will understand the value of a good digging bar.
> 
> I would make the hole fit your house in it the way you want it, then add on the entrance tunnel and entrance hole cover. This way you can measure it all out and make everything fit together correctly.



Makes sense but what about the actual height/width of the entrance? Say if I were to make it 6 inch tall and 1 foot wide, that would last maybe a year..he's going to be "taller" than 6 inches top to bottom. fairly soon.


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## Tom (Jul 5, 2015)

thegame2388 said:


> Makes sense but what about the actual height/width of the entrance? Say if I were to make it 6 inch tall and 1 foot wide, that would last maybe a year..he's going to be "taller" than 6 inches top to bottom. fairly soon.



If you want it to last a while measure his height and width now and triple those for the tunnel.


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## thegame2388 (Jul 5, 2015)

Tom said:


> If you want it to last a while measure his height and width now and triple those for the tunnel.



LOL 2 foot wide, 2 foot tall entrance? No way I can do that. Oh boy....I'll do something that will last maybe a year.


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## Tidgy's Dad (Jul 5, 2015)

Great thread, the development of this tortoise is fascinating and a joyful story.
Thanks everyone.


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## thegame2388 (Jul 7, 2015)

Here's the update on my quasi-underground, sorta above-ground, sorta burrow:

Notes: It's about 1 foot deep I'd say from all the rocks. I left it in such a way where the tort can dig further if he'd like to. I plan on putting a probe there but my gut says the temp/humidity will mimic the "wood against the wall" area he loves and will dip to whatever the outside temperature is.

I included the last picture so I could get you guys' opinion...is that too steep of an entrance?

Ignore the water, that's just to make it mushy.


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## Team Gomberg (Jul 7, 2015)

Ya, that water will soak up eventually.. Good idea.

I think what you've done is great. When you temp it, also temp the wood area. I'd bet the temps will be vastly different!

Not sure about the incline... See what others say.


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## thegame2388 (Jul 7, 2015)

Team Gomberg said:


> Ya, that water will soak up eventually.. Good idea.
> 
> I think what you've done is great. When you temp it, also temp the wood area. I'd bet the temps will be vastly different!
> 
> Not sure about the incline... See what others say.



I put a probe at the very end of this and another in the wood area. I'll report back in 2 hours.


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## thegame2388 (Jul 8, 2015)

Tom said:


> If you want it to last a while measure his height and width now and triple those for the tunnel.





Team Gomberg said:


> Ya, that water will soak up eventually.. Good idea.
> 
> I think what you've done is great. When you temp it, also temp the wood area. I'd bet the temps will be vastly different!
> 
> Not sure about the incline... See what others say.



Good news: 

It dipped to a low of 62.7F last night. Inside of this burrow had a low of 69.9F. It was +7F warmer than the outside temperature. Now that it's nearly noon 12pm, the outside temp is 83F while the burrow is 76F, representing a -7F cooler temp. 

At the same time, the "under the wood leaning against the wall" area had a low of 71F and a current temp of 76F.

Long story short, seems like burrow and the wood-area are similar to each other.

Bad news:

Whenever I place the tort inside the burrow, he immediately turns around and climbs back out. How do I keep him in there? Is it something he simply has to discover? He just seems to enjoy ONE side of our backyard (our side yard) and loves to go under the wood I've photographed before. That's just his spot and there's nothing I can do about it. Hopefully he will use the burrow, if not, then I've just wasted two days of my life haha. 

Any tips?


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## JoesMum (Jul 8, 2015)

You can't force him to use it. He'll go in when he's good and ready. 

Although if you put him in it when he's cooled down, he is more likely to stay put. Do it too early and he'll move


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## thegame2388 (Jul 8, 2015)

JoesMum said:


> You can't force him to use it. He'll go in when he's good and ready.
> 
> Although if you put him in it when he's cooled down, he is more likely to stay put. Do it too early and he'll move



I'll try tonight at around 5PM and see what happens.


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## Team Gomberg (Jul 8, 2015)

It's too soon to claim that the wood area and the burrow maintain similar temps. It's cooler right now...give it a week in the 100° days and you'll see what I'm talking about  If plywood boards on a concrete slab leaned up against a house provided the right temps, we'd all be doing it that way. 

On a day like today I wouldn't worry about him using it.

Try putting him in the burrow first thing in the morning. Let him come out of it to warm up on his own. 
Try putting him in the burrow on the +90° days with some water (not a flood) down there to see if he enjoys the cooler spot. And try it without water.

And keep in mind, tortoises after creatures of habit.


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## thegame2388 (Jul 9, 2015)

Team Gomberg said:


> It's too soon to claim that the wood area and the burrow maintain similar temps. It's cooler right now...give it a week in the 100° days and you'll see what I'm talking about  If plywood boards on a concrete slab leaned up against a house provided the right temps, we'd all be doing it that way.
> 
> On a day like today I wouldn't worry about him using it.
> 
> ...



Yeah he just keeps moving out. Is there a length/depth minimum to see its effects? So far, it's maybe plus/minus 7 degrees of the outside normal temperature (I'm using probes to confirm this).

Nonetheless, the tort hates it, doesn't even look in that direction, and when put in there, he climbs out after 1 minute.


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## Team Gomberg (Jul 9, 2015)

@Tom what has been your most successful method for getting a Sulcata to enjoy a new burrow?


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## thegame2388 (Jul 9, 2015)

I want the answer!


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## Team Gomberg (Jul 9, 2015)

Don't worry...he's a busy man. He'll answer it when he gets the time to come around


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## Tom (Jul 9, 2015)

Team Gomberg said:


> @Tom what has been your most successful method for getting a Sulcata to enjoy a new burrow?



There are a couple of things here:
1. Its been my experience that small (small being less than 5 or 6 inches...) sulcatas tend to avoid any sort of hole in the ground as if there was a sulcata eating monster in there. This makes sense when you consider where they come from. It takes time for them to realize that the hole in the ground is really THEIR hole and there are no monsters waiting down there to eat them. There are occasional exceptions, but I don't find that they will dig their own holes from scratch until they are around 12". I've had a few that made some attempt at digging prior to that size, but most of mine don't. I find that continually putting them down there helps to convince them its safe and gets them used to it. It works best on very hot days. Letting them sleep down there over night usually helps too, when its warm enough, which it isn't during this weird July cold spell we are having. But when it heats back up you can try putting the tortoise down in the burrow a while after dark. If you wait until they are out cold and fast asleep before you put them down there, they will usually stay down there overnight.
2. I did not comment before because I hate being the parade-pee-er-on-er, but your burrow is not very inviting looking from a tortoise's perspective. (Speaking to The Game here...) At least it doesn't look like it from the pics. I can't tell how deep it goes, but it looks too shallow. They don't want to feel like they are tapped and something could reach on and grab them. The entry looks too steep and exposed. There needs to be a short tunnel leading to the underground chamber and the hole needs a cover. On a safety note, I would also not use those abrasive garden border pieces. That will damage the carapace over time. Dirt has a way of being shifted around and when the carapace starts rubbing on that over head border stone it will be scraped clean in no time. For the tunnel angle, it needs to be shallow and not steep. Mine goes 8 feet long to drop 3 feet, to give you some idea.

Another technique is to corral the tortoise in a relatively small area on a hot day where they have to use the burrow to escape the heat. Must be done carefully, but it teaches them that the burrow is a safe, good place. 

Burrow location also matters. Sometimes they just don't like the spot where you decided it should be.

I don't want to make you feel bad. I know you put a lot of effort into this, but its taken me a long time to figure out the design elements that work and the ones that don't. It might suck to have to re-do some elements, but better than having to learn the hard way over time.

I hope this all helps.


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## Cowboy_Ken (Jul 9, 2015)

I've got a rescue that suffered dearly with its previous owners before someone pointed them towards me and they asked if I be willing, I said yes, and well now the little bugger is doing great. It'll likely never outgrow the damage done, but is in a better place now, as they say. Point of all this? Makita, my breeding female in this group dug a trial egg laying hole last year that she didn't like and dug elsewhere. We're having a terrible heatwave up here. 2 wks above 90° and no rain in 35+ days. Well a few mornings back I saw the “saddleback" tortoise doing some digging in there and sure enough, that now is its favorite place during the heat of the day. This is a hole that's been ignored by all for over two yrs and now it's been “discovered" and is actively used, (except when I go out for a picture). This just helps with what Tom says in regard to sometimes they don't want what you've offered.

look at the more baby. This was 3 years or so ago.


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## thegame2388 (Jul 9, 2015)

Interesting, as mine is surely less than 12"; so in that case, I shall wait a bit longer until he naturally burrows on his own. 

We'll see with time.


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## Alaskamike (Jul 10, 2015)

Great thread, shows the extent to which we go sometimes to create the right environments. To me this is part of the fun of tortoise keeping, especially with the larger breeds. Sulcatas are a challenge, guess that why I like 'em. 
Now I'm on my second burrow for my rescue "Tiny" who was 24 months when I got him and 2.3 lbs. First burrow was a rubbermaid container with bottom cut out and a side opening buried with top at ground level. I could remove the top and see him in there. He took to it right away.
That one lasted all of 8 months and I needed a bigger one (he's 8 1/2 lbs now), so I dug it up this spring, and made a 2'X2" wood box, and buried that one 2' down. Now he sleeps in there all night, and comes out when he feels like it. All winter he used the above ground heated box, but once it got hot he went back to the 'cave'. 

I made the opening 12" x 12" in the buried box, so maybe that one will last a couple years - we'll see hahaha 
Covered the tunnel down into it with plywood so it could not cave in. I wish I had a camera I could run down in there to see if he has modified it any, it has an open floor so he can dig more if he wants to.


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## thegame2388 (Jul 23, 2015)

7/16/15: 2883g
7/23/15: 2947g


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## Tom (Jul 23, 2015)

Alaskamike said:


> I made the opening 12" x 12" in the buried box, so maybe that one will last a couple years - we'll see hahaha
> Covered the tunnel down into it with plywood so it could not cave in. I wish I had a camera I could run down in there to see if he has modified it any, it has an open floor so he can dig more if he wants to.



C'mon Mike! We need pics of all this!


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## Alaskamike (Jul 24, 2015)

Tom said:


> C'mon Mike! We need pics of all this!


Funny Tom, not nearly as elaborate as one of yours. You can see how I did it on this page -
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/tiny-tales.100944/page-7

If I figure out how to get a camera down there I take some photos of the inside now that he's dug around a bit.


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## thegame2388 (Jul 24, 2015)

One annoying aspect is that he doesn't eat the mazuri when I place them. He'll go to the side of the house, cool off, and just stays there until 9PM where I put him back in the box. I figured Sulcatas shouldn't be TOLD to be fed but it's getting frustrating.


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## Tidgy's Dad (Jul 24, 2015)

i'm not a sulcata owner , but I understand that some torts don't like mazuri.
Feed a mixed diet and sneak the mazuri in, if you need to.


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## thegame2388 (Jul 24, 2015)

Tidgy's Dad said:


> i'm not a sulcata owner , but I understand that some torts don't like mazuri.
> Feed a mixed diet and sneak the mazuri in, if you need to.



Oh no, mine loves Mazuri but sometimes he'll eat 75% of one pebble soaked in water and then he'll move on to the next.

Worst is when I put his food in the middle of our backyard, but then he'll just go to the side of the house and stay there until 9PM without coming to the food area.


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## Tom (Jul 24, 2015)

Darn stubborn tortoise! Why doesn't he do things YOUR way???


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## thegame2388 (Jul 25, 2015)

Tom said:


> Darn stubborn tortoise! Why doesn't he do things YOUR way???



LOL well the problem is that the food dries up and then he'll never come back and eat it!


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## thegame2388 (Sep 5, 2015)

*UPDATE:*

August 10th: 3133g
September 5th: 3583g


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## Tidgy's Dad (Sep 5, 2015)

Really beautiful tortoise.
Great photos.
Thanks.


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## Dessy (Sep 5, 2015)

Im not an expert but hes beautiful


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## thegame2388 (Sep 7, 2015)

Thank you all!!!


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## Oxalis (Sep 25, 2015)

He can definitely eat right off the pavement, no paper plate necessary. 

Very pretty!!


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## thegame2388 (Nov 4, 2015)

Two months later: 4518g.

He's getting bigger.


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## Oxalis (Nov 4, 2015)

thegame2388 said:


> Two months later: 4518g. He's getting bigger.


Hilariously cute!


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## thegame2388 (Nov 4, 2015)

Oxalis said:


> Hilariously cute!




Yeah that's his growth over 1.5 years!


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## Tom (Nov 4, 2015)

Nice.


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## Jodie (Nov 4, 2015)

That's great! He looks amazing.


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## franz_see (Nov 6, 2015)

Tom said:


> If I recall, he didn't have the best start. 48 grams for a 5 month old is tiny. But the new growth while you have had him looks pretty promising. It is a good indicator that things are okay and this one is going to make it and be fine. He'll hit a growth spurt soon enough. Don't worry about 2 grams one way or the other.
> 
> See all those hairs on your carpet? That's why you don't put them down on the carpet.



Definitely agree with @Tom here. @thegame2388, your baby just had a slow start. But with your care, he's growing at roughly at 40% per month. Now that's fast considering most sulcata hatchlings (that i've observed) just grows at about 23% per month  

Just don't compare his current weight with that of other sullies his age. It will take time for him to catch up, but he'll definitely catchup. Especially with that monstrous growth rate  

And don't worry about losing 2g (or in your case, 2% of his body weight). Try weighting his poop. I bet it's somewhere between 5-10g (i.e. 5-10% of his body weight)  He can easily fluctuate +/-5% of his body weight within 24 hours 

Personally, I think you're doing great with him 

FYI : I did a collection before of other people's growth charts. You can compare yours under sulcatas, and you'd see that yours is actually growing faster than most in that collection : http://bit.ly/tortoise-growth-charts


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## Agent007 (Nov 9, 2015)

thegame2388 said:


> So I've had my tortoise since late January...and I was wondering if its size/weight is okay. The previous owner said it hatched in late August, meaning I had gotten it at 5 months and it is now 7 months old.
> Oh boy he looks healthy. My tort used to be like him(Now he's 2 KG) Its normal my 8 month old tort used to be 100 grams.
> 
> 
> ...


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## thegame2388 (Nov 16, 2015)

franz_see said:


> Definitely agree with @Tom here. @thegame2388, your baby just had a slow start. But with your care, he's growing at roughly at 40% per month. Now that's fast considering most sulcata hatchlings (that i've observed) just grows at about 23% per month
> 
> Just don't compare his current weight with that of other sullies his age. It will take time for him to catch up, but he'll definitely catchup. Especially with that monstrous growth rate
> 
> ...



Yes thank you. That 2g loss was from almost 2 years ago. I'm not worried. 40% growth...I haven't calculated it month to month. I'll look into that. He's at 5000g now and he's 2.5 years old. Would you guys say that's above average for his age?


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## thegame2388 (Nov 21, 2015)

Tom said:


> C'mon Mike! We need pics of all this!





Tom said:


> Nice.



Hey Tom, maybe I'm going about this the wrong way...I had a good ol' humidifier but it keeps breaking. Is humidity even needed at this point? The humidifier would run all night long with 85F temps (when I know, for a fact that he's in the night box) but is it worth all the hassle? If so, the crane humidifers would WORK but wouldn't maintain humidity. I bought the ReptiFogger for **** and giggles, and it seems to be working but it's slow and doesn't even take the % up to 80%+.

Do I just move on, get a mister like the RS400 or, just keep at it? Put in plants? How would you optimally maintain humidity?


----------



## Tom (Nov 21, 2015)

I don't use humidifiers. I think its the wrong approach entirely.

Indoors I use closed chambers to contain humidity and warmth. Outdoors I use tubs or buckets of water to add some moderate humidity to my heated night boxes.

At 10 pounds he still has a lot of growing to do, so I would keep up humidity in the night box for at least another few years.


----------



## thegame2388 (Nov 21, 2015)

Tom said:


> I don't use humidifiers. I think its the wrong approach entirely.
> 
> Indoors I use closed chambers to contain humidity and warmth. Outdoors I use tubs or buckets of water to add some moderate humidity to my heated night boxes.
> 
> At 10 pounds he still has a lot of growing to do, so I would keep up humidity in the night box for at least another few years.



Oh...in outdoor nightboxes, tubs won't do diddly squat. I could stick a 10 gallon bucket in there and nothing would happen. I'm rocking the ReptiFogger so far and we'll see.


----------



## Tom (Nov 21, 2015)

thegame2388 said:


> Oh...in outdoor nightboxes, tubs won't do diddly squat. I could stick a 10 gallon bucket in there and nothing would happen. I'm rocking the ReptiFogger so far and we'll see.



What is different about your night boxes vs. mine? Tubs work very well in mine.


----------



## thegame2388 (Nov 21, 2015)

Tom said:


> What is different about your night boxes vs. mine? Tubs work very well in mine.



I don't know. Mine's insulated...but I doubt insulation would affect humidity anyways. Heat sure, but not moisture levels. And by "high" humidity, what do you mean? I want my levels to be 70%+


----------



## Tom (Nov 21, 2015)

thegame2388 said:


> I don't know. Mine's insulated...but I doubt insulation would affect humidity anyways. Heat sure, but not moisture levels. And by "high" humidity, what do you mean? I want my levels to be 70%+



My boxes hover between 60 and 80% humidity depending on the weather and temperatures. The hot Santa Ana winds dry things out a bit, and super cold nights make the heaters run longer and dry things out more than usual, but outside of those two things, the humidity in my boxes stays near 70-80% most of the time. I have shelves with tubs of water in each box.


----------



## thegame2388 (Nov 21, 2015)

Tom said:


> My boxes hover between 60 and 80% humidity depending on the weather and temperatures. The hot Santa Ana winds dry things out a bit, and super cold nights make the heaters run longer and dry things out more than usual, but outside of those two things, the humidity in my boxes stays near 70-80% most of the time. I have shelves with tubs of water in each box.



Hmmm I've seen those pics but I don't understand what you're doing or have installed, that I haven't...


----------



## Tom (Nov 21, 2015)

thegame2388 said:


> Hmmm I've seen those pics but I don't understand what you're doing or have installed, that I haven't...



Did you seal your box with caulking as you built it?
Is the top weather-stripped where it meets the lid?
Do you have vinyl door flaps to helps hold the heat an humidity in?

Seems like your humidity must be escaping somehow, while its trapped in my boxes.

If I ran a humidifier in one of my boxes, I think the walls would be dripping.


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## thegame2388 (Nov 21, 2015)

Yes.
Yes. Though I will buy some tomorrow since my old ones are coming off. 
Yes (and the door closed at night as well)

I'd love to know whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy


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## Tom (Nov 21, 2015)

thegame2388 said:


> Yes.
> Yes. Though I will buy some tomorrow since my old ones are coming off.
> Yes (and the door closed at night as well)
> 
> I'd love to know whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy



Hmm…

You've seen my pics with all the tubs on shelves in there, right? Have you tried your box with that many tubs? In others words, have you tried with with a large surface area of water for evaporation?

A single five gallon bucket will not deliver the same amount of evaporation as five wide, shallow one gallon containers with a much larger total surface area, for example.


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## thegame2388 (Nov 21, 2015)

I could try but I doubt enough water would evaporate to such a degree where the humidity would increase. What if I added plants? Why are you against humidifiers?


----------



## Tom (Nov 21, 2015)

thegame2388 said:


> I could try but I doubt enough water would evaporate to such a degree where the humidity would increase. What if I added plants? Why are you against humidifiers?



Mine will trample and eat plants and my night boxes are dark. Are you running lights inside your night boxes?

I'm not against humidifiers, I just see them as a way to deal with symptoms, rather than fixing the problem. Worded another way, rather than continually trying to bail out a sinking boat with a bucket (humidifier), I would rather plug the hole (containing existing humidity).


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## Tom (Nov 21, 2015)

Its past my bedtime. I'll check this thread in the morning to continue the conversation...


----------



## thegame2388 (Nov 21, 2015)

Tom said:


> Mine will trample and eat plants and my night boxes are dark. Are you running lights inside your night boxes?
> 
> I'm not against humidifiers, I just see them as a way to deal with symptoms, rather than fixing the problem. Worded another way, rather than continually trying to bail out a sinking boat with a bucket (humidifier), I would rather plug the hole (containing existing humidity).



That's true. So what happens if I can't plug the holes? I caulked last year, and only thing I can think of is that the weather stripping wasn't thick enough.


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## Tom (Nov 22, 2015)

thegame2388 said:


> That's true. So what happens if I can't plug the holes? I caulked last year, and only thing I can think of is that the weather stripping wasn't thick enough.



How about a pic of the box? Maybe I will see something that is not coming across in the typed word.


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## thegame2388 (Nov 22, 2015)

Tom said:


> How about a pic of the box? Maybe I will see something that is not coming across in the typed word.



































Tips?


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## franz_see (Nov 22, 2015)

thegame2388 said:


> I don't know. Mine's insulated...but I doubt insulation would affect humidity anyways. Heat sure, but not moisture levels. And by "high" humidity, what do you mean? I want my levels to be 70%+



Actually, although heat does not affect absolute humidity, it does affect relative humidity. 

For example, your cool spot might be 80% RH but your hot spot at 60% RH only. I dont think it's possible to have both cool spot and hot spot at the same RH especially if there's ~10 celsius difference.


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## franz_see (Nov 22, 2015)

thegame2388 said:


> I could try but I doubt enough water would evaporate to such a degree where the humidity would increase. What if I added plants? Why are you against humidifiers?



I dont remember the exact math for this, and i dont know the dimensions of your enclosure (you probably mentioned it just didnt notice), but based on your pics. I'd say evaporating 1 liter of water should increase your humidity to 100% at 35c (assuming 0 leakage - which is impossible). What I was never able to figure out before though was the effect of the ventilation holes on an enclosure. Alternatively, you can seal everything off, and put plants in and rely on those to convert carbon to oxygen again


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## franz_see (Nov 22, 2015)

thegame2388 said:


> Yes.
> Yes. Though I will buy some tomorrow since my old ones are coming off.
> Yes (and the door closed at night as well)
> 
> I'd love to know whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy



Also, check your hygrometers. They can be way off. You can try to put your hygrometers to a salt test http://m.wikihow.com/Test-a-Hygrometer . If your hygrometers are adjustable, then great - you can calibrate them accordingly.

If not, you'd just have to do some mental math when reading them - that is, if your salt test ended with 68%, then that means, every time you read your hygrometer, you add 7% to it to get your actual humidity.


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## thegame2388 (Nov 22, 2015)

Re-caulked some areas, weather stripped...added some sphangnum moss....and added two tubs.....we'll see in a few hours.


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## Tom (Nov 22, 2015)

It took me a minute of looking them over, but I see the difference.

You made your lid quite a bit differently than mine. My lids sit like a cap with a rim that sticks over the top of the box. The roof of my lid rests on the weather stripping that rests on the top rim of the box.

With the position of your hinges and the way your lid sits, you are losing more heat and humidity out the top than I am. That coupled with the big heater in a relatively small box. I run that size heater in a 4x8 box. If we had one of those FLIR scopes that sees heat, I bet this would be obvious.

There is nothing wrong with your box or lid articulation. It is just different than mine, and that would likely account for the differences in humidity retention we are seeing.


----------



## thegame2388 (Nov 22, 2015)

Tom said:


> It took me a minute of looking them over, but I see the difference.
> 
> You made your lid quite a bit differently than mine. My lids sit like a cap with a rim that sticks over the top of the box. The roof of my lid rests on the weather stripping that rests on the top rim of the box.
> 
> ...



Interesting. Currently I'm at 94% humidity...so either my method has worked or my sensor is a bit wet lol


----------



## thegame2388 (Nov 22, 2015)

Tom said:


> It took me a minute of looking them over, but I see the difference.
> 
> You made your lid quite a bit differently than mine. My lids sit like a cap with a rim that sticks over the top of the box. The roof of my lid rests on the weather stripping that rests on the top rim of the box.
> 
> ...



You know what else grinds my gears? When the Zoomed Hygrometer and my other humidity monitor show different % values....in my case, the Zoo Med is incorrect so I moved the sensor around. It's currently blasting humidity (its reading is 50%) when my separate monitor shows 95%.


----------



## franz_see (Nov 23, 2015)

thegame2388 said:


> You know what else grinds my gears? When the Zoomed Hygrometer and my other humidity monitor show different % values....in my case, the Zoo Med is incorrect so I moved the sensor around. It's currently blasting humidity (its reading is 50%) when my separate monitor shows 95%.



Lol. If they're showing huge difference, then at least one of them is way off  Or, like you said, the later is just wet inside


----------



## thegame2388 (Nov 23, 2015)

franz_see said:


> Lol. If they're showing huge difference, then at least one of them is way off  Or, like you said, the later is just wet inside



Yeah I put in 5 sensors in now, and 1 of them is a bit off...so I'll calibrate THAT one....Hmmm...


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## thegame2388 (Nov 23, 2015)

Tom said:


> He's living outside full time now, right? All of mine slow down tremendously when they move outside full time. In about another 8-12 months the growth rate will pick back up and soon after that you'll be wishing it would slow back down...



Sorry to random quote you, but if the substrate/tort is a bit most (80%+ humididty with 80F during night time), that's okay and ideal, correct?


----------



## Tom (Nov 23, 2015)

thegame2388 said:


> Sorry to random quote you, but if the substrate/tort is a bit most (80%+ humididty with 80F during night time), that's okay and ideal, correct?



That is ideal for babies. Once they start getting bigger, I back off a bit. I think it will works well for you since you keep the temps up inside the box, and your tortoise lives in such a dry climate, and can dry out all day while walking around outside all day.


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## thegame2388 (Nov 24, 2015)

Tom said:


> That is ideal for babies. Once they start getting bigger, I back off a bit. I think it will works well for you since you keep the temps up inside the box, and your tortoise lives in such a dry climate, and can dry out all day while walking around outside all day.



Thanks. Just to reiterate, the humidifier fogger "tube" is point right AT my tortoise...so essentially, when the sensor reads like 50% humidity inside the night box, the tortoise's actual humidity is actually 90-100% since he sleeps in the same place every night, and because the tube is pointed right at it. It's not so much the humidity of the night box 2 feet away from him that's important, from what I gather, but rather the humidity felt by the tortoise on its shell and the substrate in which he burrows/sleeps in.

This way, not only are the temps and humidity high all night, but I also don't have to crank up the fogger to 80% since I have the tube pointed right at the tortoise to achieve 80-100% humiditiy all day. 

Am I right here? Thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1


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## thegame2388 (Dec 19, 2015)

Update 12/2015:

As the weather has gotten colder, there has been a remarkable decrease in activity, and the amount of time he spends outside...sometimes not at all. His temps are all fine...he just doesn't eat. Sometimes we force him out, and he'll walk around but that's always if we put him there. I know it's normal for tortoises to slow down but I really want to see him eat more! Today, I soaked him for a good hour and he pooped out these urates which kinda freaked me out:


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## thegame2388 (Mar 11, 2016)

Hey, before I post my big update, I'd like to get your guys' opinion on the markings on my sulcata's shell:






Look at the side of his shell. Looks like scratches?






His scutes look discolored....and I think I know why.






Same as the first picture.

I think I know what's up: he likes to hide under this firepit box thingy we have. It's copper colored....and he used to fit underneath it and just sleep there or poop or whatever. Now he can't, but I'm guessing before, maybe a few weeks ago, he could scrape and hurdle himself underneath. But honestly, as long as the color comes back....and as long as it's not some infection or fungus, then I'm okay. 

What do you guys think?


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## Tom (Mar 11, 2016)

Looks like rub marks to me.


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## thegame2388 (Mar 12, 2016)

Tom said:


> Looks like rub marks to me.



Yeah I just hope it wasn't the shell rotting or anything. Stupid tortoise lol.


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## thegame2388 (Mar 13, 2016)

Update:

Feb. 27: 5290g
March 11: 5432g.

Is this normal growth for a......2.5 year old?


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## thegame2388 (Mar 17, 2016)

Tom said:


> The new growth looks great.
> 
> Every time I move one outside full time the growth slows tremendously for a while, even though temperatures are the same and they are already used to being outside most of the day. I don't know what does it. Keeping the night box humid and warm will help a lot.



Tom I need your reaction to my last post!


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## Tom (Mar 17, 2016)

thegame2388 said:


> Update:
> 
> Feb. 27: 5290g
> March 11: 5432g.
> ...



They all go through growth spurts. Did we ever determine male or female?

Up the calcium intake for the duration of this wild growth spurt.

Are you feeding lots of grass and grass hay?


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## thegame2388 (Mar 17, 2016)

Tom said:


> They all go through growth spurts. Did we ever determine male or female?
> 
> Up the calcium intake for the duration of this wild growth spurt.
> 
> Are you feeding lots of grass and grass hay?



1. Yes it's a male.
2. Up the calcium...meaning every meal or every week or what? 
3. Enjoy these new pictures. 


























Thoughts?


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## Tom (Mar 17, 2016)

thegame2388 said:


> 2. Up the calcium...meaning every meal or every week or what?
> 
> Thoughts?



Got to three days a week, and up the quantity a little bit.


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## thegame2388 (Mar 17, 2016)

Tom said:


> Got to three days a week, and up the quantity a little bit.



Thanks. He's been pretty much living the life for the past 1.5 years with nothing changed. He's gaining. Just wanted a confirmation from Tom the expert.


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## Oxalis (Mar 21, 2016)

thegame2388 said:


> 3. Enjoy these new pictures.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Oh my gosh, what a cutie!! Inquisitive with beautiful eyes!


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## thegame2388 (Jul 2, 2016)

Tom said:


> It took me a minute of looking them over, but I see the difference.
> 
> You made your lid quite a bit differently than mine. My lids sit like a cap with a rim that sticks over the top of the box. The roof of my lid rests on the weather stripping that rests on the top rim of the box.
> 
> ...



Hey Tom, I figured I should tag you since you've always been helpful with my rare updates. Well...here's another one! I'll post weight and pictures information later.

Few observations:
1) I recently bought cuttlebone and he seems to love it, and devour it. How much is too much? Should I just him eat the whole thing in one sitting?
2) My tort doesn't burrow whatsoever. Maybe it's our ideal California weather or the ideal paradise I've created inside his night box, but I've never seen burrowing behavior
3) At what point should I just completely remove the humidifier, and other gadgets (except the heater) from his night box and go basic since he's almost 3 years old? Just to make room, you know?
4) To piggy back on that last question, the size of the nightbox is perfect, however, I feel like the entrance might be a little tight perhaps a year from now. Any thoughts?


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## Tom (Jul 2, 2016)

thegame2388 said:


> Hey Tom, I figured I should tag you since you've always been helpful with my rare updates. Well...here's another one! I'll post weight and pictures information later.
> 
> Few observations:
> 1) I recently bought cuttlebone and he seems to love it, and devour it. How much is too much? Should I just him eat the whole thing in one sitting?
> ...




What size is he now?

1. I'd let him eat as much cuttle bone as he wants. They have growth spurts and the cutttle bone will insure that he has enough calcium to sustain healthy growth. I buy cuttle bone in 5 pound bulk bags.
2. Thats pretty normal. A lot of them don't dig. …until the day they do.
3. This depends on a lot of factors. Remove whatever gadgets you don't need to maintain the correct conditions inside the box. Mine only have a heater and some sort of bucket or water vessel for humidity one they are about 10".
4. I build my entrance doors big enough to fit an adult. I don't want to build it twice. Sounds like you will have to build it at least twice.


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## thegame2388 (Jul 2, 2016)

Tom said:


> What size is he now?
> 
> 1. I'd let him eat as much cuttle bone as he wants. They have growth spurts and the cutttle bone will insure that he has enough calcium to sustain healthy growth. I buy cuttle bone in 5 pound bulk bags.
> 2. Thats pretty normal. A lot of them don't dig. …until the day they do.
> ...



1. Just checked his weight. He weighs 16.6lbs. Turns 3 years old in late August. 
2. Phew.
3. Correction conditions...as in...heat and humidity or just heat? What about the box with all the electrical equipment...I can move that outside or get rid of everything altogether....minus the heater. Is that good?
4. I measured how more room he has to fit. It's about 6-7 inches in width. Perhaps another 1-2 years?


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## Tom (Jul 2, 2016)

thegame2388 said:


> 1. Just checked his weight. He weighs 16.6lbs. Turns 3 years old in late August.
> 2. Phew.
> 3. Correction conditions...as in...heat and humidity or just heat? What about the box with all the electrical equipment...I can move that outside or get rid of everything altogether....minus the heater. Is that good?
> 4. I measured how more room he has to fit. It's about 6-7 inches in width. Perhaps another 1-2 years?



I make my doors 16" all and 26" wide for a sulcata. Only an exceptionally large male will not fit through that.


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## thegame2388 (Jul 2, 2016)

Tom said:


> I make my doors 16" all and 26" wide for a sulcata. Only an exceptionally large male will not fit through that.




16" tall and 26" wide? I'll go back and check mine. I think I can upgrade if needed.

But apart from that, what do you think about removing the humidifier?


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## Tom (Jul 3, 2016)

thegame2388 said:


> But apart from that, what do you think about removing the humidifier?



If you are able to maintain the desired humidity without t, then I think you are fine. Check humidity levels for a few days with the humidifier off and see what you get. If its too low, keep the unit in there and running as you have been. If humidity in your night box stays high enough with more passive methods, like water tubs on shelves for example, then you won't need to run it.


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## thegame2388 (Jul 3, 2016)

Tom said:


> If you are able to maintain the desired humidity without t, then I think you are fine. Check humidity levels for a few days with the humidifier off and see what you get. If its too low, keep the unit in there and running as you have been. If humidity in your night box stays high enough with more passive methods, like water tubs on shelves for example, then you won't need to run it.



For a 3 year old, what's the correct amount? Not to mention, he's only in the nightbox from about 6pm-11am....so I have it on a timer, and I have the damn reptifogger pointed right at the usual corner he sleeps at, so I don't need to have the entire ambient humidity set at 80% or whatever.

But, let's say in general, what would you like the humidity to be while he sleeps? 60%?


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## thegame2388 (Jul 3, 2016)

Picture update: turns 3 in late August while weighing 16.6lbs or 7568g. Say cheese!


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## Tom (Jul 3, 2016)

I like 60-80%. If what you are doing is working well, why are you changing things?


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## thegame2388 (Jul 3, 2016)

Tom said:


> I like 60-80%. If what you are doing is working well, why are you changing things?



To be honest, it's just to make room and remove things I don't need. Just expecting him to get bigger in the next year or so. I've been doing it well for nearly 3 years so I'm pretty happy.


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## Tom (Jul 3, 2016)

thegame2388 said:


> To be honest, it's just to make room and remove things I don't need. Just expecting him to get bigger in the next year or so. I've been doing it well for nearly 3 years so I'm pretty happy.



I used to think that once they reached a certain size that pyramiding was not a concern. I was wrong. If what you are doing is working, I would not want to change it much. Conditions are so dry here, and SoCal grown tortoises can be recognized by their growth patterns. If you want to remove the humidifier, I would check your humidity levels with what you are doing now, and then find a different way to keep it close to that.


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## thegame2388 (Jul 3, 2016)

Tom said:


> I used to think that once they reached a certain size that pyramiding was not a concern. I was wrong. If what you are doing is working, I would not want to change it much. Conditions are so dry here, and SoCal grown tortoises can be recognized by their growth patterns. If you want to remove the humidifier, I would check your humidity levels with what you are doing now, and then find a different way to keep it close to that.



Hmm and what if I told you that what I was doing now was to not care so much about humidity? Like 10-30% level....but I'll try my best to keep that sucker up. At night for sure. I'll have another major update in 3-4 months.


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## Tom (Jul 3, 2016)

thegame2388 said:


> Hmm and what if I told you that what I was doing now was to not care so much about humidity? Like 10-30% level....but I'll try my best to keep that sucker up. At night for sure. I'll have another major update in 3-4 months.



Sometimes that works for people. That why I said: "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."

Sometimes sulcatas reach a certain size and the growth starts to smooth out, even though conditions are dry and have not changed. We see this with tortoises in the Phoenix AZ area sometimes. Something about that climate there just agrees with tortoises. Here in SoCal, we get the rough growth lines on the sides of the tortoise, like on yours and mine.


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## Gillian M (Jul 5, 2016)

I think he looks fine: nothing to worry about.


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## thegame2388 (Jul 6, 2016)

Gillian Moore said:


> I think he looks fine: nothing to worry about.



Thank you. And while I've set the Reptifogger to 40% inside his enclosure, I've actually pointed the fogger hose right in the corner where he sleeps. That way, it'll be 40% ambient humidity, but he himself will be moist throughout the night.


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## thegame2388 (Sep 13, 2016)

UPDATE SEPTEMBER 13 2016:




































So my little tortoise here is now 8330g or 18.36lbs. He just turned 3 years old exactly two weeks ago. Nothing major to report on. Any thoughts on his weight and progression?

Thanks


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## Fredkas (Sep 14, 2016)

Can you share information about what he eats each days for a week in details? Im just curious


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## Tom (Sep 14, 2016)

thegame2388 said:


> Any thoughts on his weight and progression?



Looks like a healthy, thriving sulcata to me.


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## thegame2388 (Sep 14, 2016)

Fredkas said:


> Can you share information about what he eats each days for a week in details? Im just curious



Mazuri, lettuce, carrots, chopped kale, etc

Sometimes humidity is set to be high during night time, other times I forget. Sometimes he chooses to come out, other times we force him out  or we just let him stay indoors. 

That's pretty much it!


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## thegame2388 (Sep 14, 2016)

Tom said:


> Looks like a healthy, thriving sulcata to me.



THANK YOU! I am trying to project out his weight to next week using his current and past weight measurements as plot points and predict the future, assuming his growth is linear.


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## Gillian M (Sep 14, 2016)

thegame2388 said:


> So I've had my tortoise since late January...and I was wondering if its size/weight is okay. The previous owner said it hatched in late August, meaning I had gotten it at 5 months and it is now 7 months old.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Am not a tort expert so I am not going to be able to make any comments as far the numbers are concerned. However I can say.....what a *BEAUTIFUL* tort! GOD bless.


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## thegame2388 (Sep 14, 2016)

Tom said:


> Looks like a healthy, thriving sulcata to me.



7/16/15: 2883g
7/23/15: 2947g
8/10/15 3133g
9/5/15: 3583g
11/4/15: 4518g
11/25/15: 4720g
12/31/15: 5000g
2/26/16: 5290g
3/11/16: 5432g
3/19/16: 5806g
7/2/16: 7658g
9/9/16: 8330g


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## thegame2388 (Sep 14, 2016)

God I'm such a math geek; using the last post's plot points, line of best fit equation:

y = 384.43(x) + 2426.8

Thus, next year, putting "27" as x since July 2015 is Month "1", I predict next year, this time, he will be 12,800 grams or about 28.2 lbs!


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## Oxalis (Sep 14, 2016)

thegame2388 said:


> UPDATE SEPTEMBER 13 2016:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Very cute!


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## thegame2388 (Sep 17, 2016)

The tortoise sometimes doesn't come out of his night box even when the inside temperature reaches 100F. I put him outside on my own. Any reason why I SHOULDN'T be doing this?


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## Tom (Sep 17, 2016)

thegame2388 said:


> The tortoise sometimes doesn't come out of his night box even when the inside temperature reaches 100F. I put him outside on my own. Any reason why I SHOULDN'T be doing this?



Mine do that too sometimes. I figure they must want to warm up their core after a cooler night. They move out when they are ready, but I don't see a problem with you pulling him out early either.


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## thegame2388 (Nov 21, 2016)

Yearly November size reference update:





For those wondering:

2014: Around 237g
2015: 4720
2016: 8900g

Nothing much else to report.


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## Tom (Nov 21, 2016)

New growth and the shell look great. Keep doing whatever you are doing. You will have a monster on your hands soon.

Are you feeding grass hay now?


----------



## Yvonne G (Nov 21, 2016)

thegame2388 said:


> Yearly November size reference update:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I love this picture comparison.


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## Oxalis (Nov 21, 2016)

thegame2388 said:


> Yearly November size reference update:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hubby was impressed! Such a pretty tortoise!


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## thegame2388 (Nov 21, 2016)

Tom said:


> New growth and the shell look great. Keep doing whatever you are doing. You will have a monster on your hands soon.
> 
> Are you feeding grass hay now?



I hope the monster arrives. His weight hasn't increased in the past 2-3 months. And I don't think it'll grow much at all in the winter months. But yeah, i"ll keep doing what I'm doing 

PS - No hay grass


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## Fredkas (Nov 21, 2016)

thegame2388 said:


> Yearly November size reference update:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Gosh.. very pretty. i like how the shell is so tall


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## thegame2388 (Nov 22, 2016)

Fredkas said:


> Gosh.. very pretty. i like how the shell is so tall



The shells seem normal to me. I don't know how a flat shell looks like haha. Regardless, I must admit that a sunny day helps in the quality of the picture.


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## Fredkas (Nov 22, 2016)

thegame2388 said:


> The shells seem normal to me. I don't know how a flat shell looks like haha. Regardless, I must admit that a sunny day helps in the quality of the picture.


There are sulcata that less domer. I think yours is awesome.


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## thegame2388 (Nov 23, 2016)

Tom said:


> New growth and the shell look great. Keep doing whatever you are doing. You will have a monster on your hands soon.
> 
> Are you feeding grass hay now?




I do have a few questions:

1) Now that he's basically as stable as can be, and our temps are about 75F during the winter season or LESS during the daytime, what do you recommend I keep the themostat at (especially at night)? I currently have it at 90F at the ground level where he sleeps. Is that too high? Good? 
2) Speaking of colder temps, how do I soak a tort when the outside temp is so cool in the afternoon? I can't theoretically warm up 5-10 gallons of water for a weekly soak. Today, I just put him in regular hose water in his regular tub and he pooped and let out his urates as usual after 20 minutes. He also pooped so I am assuming everything went fine. 

Thanks!


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## Tom (Nov 23, 2016)

thegame2388 said:


> I do have a few questions:
> 
> 1) Now that he's basically as stable as can be, and our temps are about 75F during the winter season or LESS during the daytime, what do you recommend I keep the themostat at (especially at night)? I currently have it at 90F at the ground level where he sleeps. Is that too high? Good?
> 2) Speaking of colder temps, how do I soak a tort when the outside temp is so cool in the afternoon? I can't theoretically warm up 5-10 gallons of water for a weekly soak. Today, I just put him in regular hose water in his regular tub and he pooped and let out his urates as usual after 20 minutes. He also pooped so I am assuming everything went fine.
> ...


1. I set my thermostats for 86 in winter. Works for me. I think 90 is fine too. If that is working for you, I wouldn't change it.
2. I use smaller tubs and carry hot water over in 5 gallon buckets. I only do soaks in the sun on warmer winter days when temps are 70+. Its a pain, but it works.


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## Oxalis (Nov 23, 2016)

Tom said:


> 1. I set my thermostats for 86 in winter. Works for me. I think 90 is fine too. If that is working for you, I wouldn't change it.
> 2. I use smaller tubs and carry hot water over in 5 gallon buckets. I only do soaks in the sun on warmer winter days when temps are 70+. Its a pain, but it works.


Tom to the rescue!  I don't know what I'd do without him!


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## thegame2388 (Nov 24, 2016)

Tom said:


> 1. I set my thermostats for 86 in winter. Works for me. I think 90 is fine too. If that is working for you, I wouldn't change it.
> 2. I use smaller tubs and carry hot water over in 5 gallon buckets. I only do soaks in the sun on warmer winter days when temps are 70+. Its a pain, but it works.



Ah perfect. Thank you so much.


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## thegame2388 (Dec 29, 2016)

Update Christmas 2016:

Weight: 8984g (19.8lbs)


























Couple of behavioral questions:

1. When it's cold and he doesn't feel like coming out, how long can a sulcata go without eating? It's happened before where he just stays in there for 4-5 days. Should I force him out and feed him, or just wait for the weather to get better?

2. I feel like when I feed him with a spoon, he recognizes the spoon's color and eats the food. In terms of amount, I can confidently say he eats 15x more when fed then when the food is just lying around in a dish. Not only does he step on his own food and ignore it 80% of the time, but he doesn't eat as much. If I were to feed him everyday, he'd eat easily 15x more. Is this normal?

3. Again back to #1, how long can these torts go without food, during the winter, that is?


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## Tidgy's Dad (Dec 31, 2016)

If he is too cold he will lose his appetite and be unable to digest his food properly.
Can't see that forcing him out into the cold will help if he can't warm up.
Also, torts can become accustomed to being hand fed (spoon fed) and will then not eat by themselves.
You must stop it and he will get hungry enough to eat by himself if it is warm enough. Be stronger than him.
You must get him warm and feed him in a warm place.
Is his nightbox or shed warm enough ?
They can go weeks without food, but I'm not sure about this species, exactly.


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## thegame2388 (Jan 2, 2017)

Tidgy's Dad said:


> If he is too cold he will lose his appetite and be unable to digest his food properly.
> Can't see that forcing him out into the cold will help if he can't warm up.
> Also, torts can become accustomed to being hand fed (spoon fed) and will then not eat by themselves.
> You must stop it and he will get hungry enough to eat by himself if it is warm enough. Be stronger than him.
> ...



Yes def, his night box is 85-90F 24/7, but his food is placed OUTSIDE his night box.


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## thegame2388 (Jan 5, 2017)

Tom said:


> Looks like a healthy, thriving sulcata to me.



Any thoughts on my new questions?


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## Yvonne G (Jan 5, 2017)

What ones? How long they can go without eating? It takes a tortoise over a year to starve to death. It's not a pretty death either. And the longer they go without eating the harder it is to get them started eating again.


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## Tom (Jan 5, 2017)

thegame2388 said:


> Couple of behavioral questions:
> 1. When it's cold and he doesn't feel like coming out, how long can a sulcata go without eating? It's happened before where he just stays in there for 4-5 days. Should I force him out and feed him, or just wait for the weather to get better?
> 
> 2. I feel like when I feed him with a spoon, he recognizes the spoon's color and eats the food. In terms of amount, I can confidently say he eats 15x more when fed then when the food is just lying around in a dish. Not only does he step on his own food and ignore it 80% of the time, but he doesn't eat as much. If I were to feed him everyday, he'd eat easily 15x more. Is this normal?
> ...



1. Mine slow down in winter, but they all get hungry and come out to eat. What temp does your box stay? I set mine for about 86 in winter and 70ish in the heat of summer when every day is around 100 degrees.
2. I've never done that, so I don't know the answer to this question. I've never seen anyone feeding with a spoon, so I'd have to say that its not normal.
3. I've never tested this. Mine eat regularly.

This year has been consistently cold and overcast. Very unusual for us. Still, all of mine come out and look for food daily. What is different about your set up from mine?


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## Big Charlie (Jan 5, 2017)

Mine doesn't come out everyday. Last winter I think he went 6 weeks without coming out or eating. This year, I've been opening his flaps up to encourage him to come out and eat, but if he doesn't want to, he won't. He won't come out on overcast days. He hasn't been out for almost a week now. It is warm and cozy in his box. He is 17 years old.


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## Big Ol Tortoise (Jan 5, 2017)

That's good that he only eats the amount he wants. Slow growth is better growing him up too fast


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## Tom (Jan 5, 2017)

Big Charlie said:


> Mine doesn't come out everyday. Last winter I think he went 6 weeks without coming out or eating. This year, I've been opening his flaps up to encourage him to come out and eat, but if he doesn't want to, he won't. He won't come out on overcast days. He hasn't been out for almost a week now. It is warm and cozy in his box. He is 17 years old.



What is the temperature inside your night box?


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## Tom (Jan 5, 2017)

Big Ol Tortoise said:


> That's good that he only eats the amount he wants. Slow growth is better growing him up too fast



I don't agree. This old "slow growth is better" thing, is a myth from the past. The goal should be healthy growth. I don't think the speed, whether slow or fast, matters. If a tortoise is suffering from a lack of appetite, then something is wrong and needs to be fixed. All of my experience and all of my experiments over the last 2 and a half decades with this species have shown me that most people keep them too cool. This species is, however, also very adaptable and able to survive in such a wide variety of circumstances that other species couldn't. This ability to survive has led to all sorts of incorrect conclusions about what is "best" for them.


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## thegame2388 (Jan 5, 2017)

Tom said:


> 1. Mine slow down in winter, but they all get hungry and come out to eat. What temp does your box stay? I set mine for about 86 in winter and 70ish in the heat of summer when every day is around 100 degrees.
> 2. I've never done that, so I don't know the answer to this question. I've never seen anyone feeding with a spoon, so I'd have to say that its not normal.
> 3. I've never tested this. Mine eat regularly.
> 
> This year has been consistently cold and overcast. Very unusual for us. Still, all of mine come out and look for food daily. What is different about your set up from mine?



It's 85-90F 24/7. But the tort doesn't come out on overcast days (how do they know it's overcast?!) or cold days. In fact, over the past 2 weeks, I'd say he's come out once on his own, and all the other times (maybe 10-11 times) has been through me forcing him out by picking him up.

I just feel like I'm doing something wrong when he doesn't eat for 2-3 days at a time.


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## Big Charlie (Jan 6, 2017)

Tom said:


> What is the temperature inside your night box?


It drops to around 75 on cold nights but gets up to 85 during the day. I have the thermostat set at 85. The sensor is at his shell height. I think he might actually be a little warmer sitting on his heat mat. He has come out on 50 degree days when it is sunny but won't come out on overcast 60 degree days. I don't like leaving his door open if he isn't going to come out because it gets cold in there fast once it is open.

I can't force him out if he doesn't want to come. He weighs too much.


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## Tom (Jan 6, 2017)

Big Charlie said:


> It drops to around 75 on cold nights but gets up to 85 during the day. I have the thermostat set at 85. The sensor is at his shell height. I think he might actually be a little warmer sitting on his heat mat. He has come out on 50 degree days when it is sunny but won't come out on overcast 60 degree days. I don't like leaving his door open if he isn't going to come out because it gets cold in there fast once it is open.
> 
> I can't force him out if he doesn't want to come. He weighs too much.



If its dropping to 75 when the thermostat is set to 85, that tells me that either you have too much air flow, or not enough heat.

If its getting cold with the door open, that tells me you don't have door flaps, or maybe your flaps are letting in too much cold air.

Just guessing here, but theres got to be a reason why mine are all more active and have more appetite in the same part of the world...


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## Tom (Jan 6, 2017)

thegame2388 said:


> It's 85-90F 24/7. But the tort doesn't come out on overcast days (how do they know it's overcast?!) or cold days. In fact, over the past 2 weeks, I'd say he's come out once on his own, and all the other times (maybe 10-11 times) has been through me forcing him out by picking him up.
> 
> I just feel like I'm doing something wrong when he doesn't eat for 2-3 days at a time.



Just like we have to put them in their night boxes at first, maybe he needs you to bring him out on sunny days so he can see that he's not going to die because the temperature is less than 90 degrees. At least bring him out in the sun a time or two, and then let him retire back to the warm box if he wants to. Try that and then come back and let us know. Today is supposed to be sunny and a little warmer than it has been. It would be a good day to try out the theory.


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## cmacusa3 (Jan 6, 2017)

Big Charlie said:


> It drops to around 75 on cold nights but gets up to 85 during the day. I have the thermostat set at 85. The sensor is at his shell height. I think he might actually be a little warmer sitting on his heat mat. He has come out on 50 degree days when it is sunny but won't come out on overcast 60 degree days. I don't like leaving his door open if he isn't going to come out because it gets cold in there fast once it is open.
> 
> I can't force him out if he doesn't want to come. He weighs too much.




Do you not offer food in the box?


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## Tom (Jan 6, 2017)

cmac3 said:


> Do you not offer food in the box?



You bring up a good point…

I use bremuda grass hay as bedding in my big sulcata boxes and it slowly disappears over time.


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## thegame2388 (Jan 6, 2017)

Tom said:


> Just like we have to put them in their night boxes at first, maybe he needs you to bring him out on sunny days so he can see that he's not going to die because the temperature is less than 90 degrees. At least bring him out in the sun a time or two, and then let him retire back to the warm box if he wants to. Try that and then come back and let us know. Today is supposed to be sunny and a little warmer than it has been. It would be a good day to try out the theory.



Funny you say that. He came out today and started eating grass like a monster. Now he's basking somewhere lol.


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## Tom (Jan 6, 2017)

thegame2388 said:


> Funny you say that. He came out today and started eating grass like a monster. Now he's basking somewhere lol.



The sun really does have an effect on these guys. All of mine are out and grazing today too. On cold cloudy days I'll see one or two out walking around briefly before going back in the warm box. On sunny days like today, they are all out at the same time and wandering around.

They hate "winter" days as much as I do!!!


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## thegame2388 (Jan 6, 2017)

Tom said:


> The sun really does have an effect on these guys. All of mine are out and grazing today too. On cold cloudy days I'll see one or two out walking around briefly before going back in the warm box. On sunny days like today, they are all out at the same time and wandering around.
> 
> They hate "winter" days as much as I do!!!



I'm always shocked on how they "know" its cold or hot outside considering their internal enclosure temperature is always constant. Maybe they get close to the door and can sense it.


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## Tom (Jan 6, 2017)

thegame2388 said:


> I'm always shocked on how they "know" its cold or hot outside considering their internal enclosure temperature is always constant. Maybe they get close to the door and can sense it.



I frequently find my guys sitting at the door with just their head sticking out of the flaps. Seemingly contemplating whether or not to venture out on these gloomy days. My leopards do this too.


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## Big Charlie (Jan 6, 2017)

Tom said:


> If its dropping to 75 when the thermostat is set to 85, that tells me that either you have too much air flow, or not enough heat.
> 
> If its getting cold with the door open, that tells me you don't have door flaps, or maybe your flaps are letting in too much cold air.
> 
> Just guessing here, but theres got to be a reason why mine are all more active and have more appetite in the same part of the world...


I have door flaps but my tortoise is afraid of them, so if I want him to come out, I'll prop them up. That is when it really gets cold inside. If I leave them closed, he might make it out but he won't go back in, and I'm not always home when that happens.

I have my heat sensor nearer the door so it is probably warmer further in. The heat sensor hangs near where his tail usually is when he is on the heat mat.

He came out today and ate quite a bit.


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## Big Charlie (Jan 6, 2017)

cmac3 said:


> Do you not offer food in the box?


No, I never have. I haven't fed him in years, other than cutting some roses or hibiscus for him. There is plenty growing in the yard for him to graze year round.

One day a few weeks ago when he didn't want to come out, I threw some hibiscus leaves in with him but he ignored it.


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## Fredkas (Jan 6, 2017)

Tom said:


> The sun really does have an effect on these guys. All of mine are out and grazing today too. On cold cloudy days I'll see one or two out walking around briefly before going back in the warm box. On sunny days like today, they are all out at the same time and wandering around.
> 
> They hate "winter" days as much as I do!!!


You are tortoise!


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## thegame2388 (Mar 24, 2017)

3/24/2017 Update:






































Update: Nothing major really. He now weighs 10,472g (23.08lbs). He turns 4 years old in late August, making him about 3.5 years old now. Not sure if that's above or below average weight for his age, but I don't mind the size either way. I removed the humidifier to make more space. My next "concern" will be the width of his doggy-door opening to his outdoor enclosure. He has about 5 inches of wiggle room left before I need to expand the door. But other than that, it's pretty much straightforward.

Also, I can't believe this thread is now 3 years old, almost to the exact day!


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## Oxalis (Mar 24, 2017)

thegame2388 said:


> 3/24/2017 Update:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Looks good. I love the spurs on his arms!!


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## Fredkas (Mar 24, 2017)

Yes! That spurs and that nails. Cool!!


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## Tom (Mar 24, 2017)

Looking good. Keep the updates coming.


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## thegame2388 (Mar 27, 2017)

Tom said:


> Looking good. Keep the updates coming.



Thanks and you know I will!


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## teresaf (Mar 27, 2017)

thegame2388 said:


> Yes the hair on the carpet just happened to be there. The tort was just modeling for the camera
> 
> I feed him enough so that there's enough left over everyday. He loves the greens! Doesn't like the Mazuri tho  Never eats it


Can I see a pic of the Mazuri he don't like? Is it the pellet type(rabbit food) or the nugget(dog chow)?


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## thegame2388 (Mar 28, 2017)

teresaf said:


> Can I see a pic of the Mazuri he don't like? Is it the pellet type(rabbit food) or the nugget(dog chow)?



That post was years ago, he loves his Mazuri now. But now I'm curious, can you post a picture of the nugget type? I wanna see if that's what I'm feeding him.


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## teresaf (Mar 28, 2017)

thegame2388 said:


> That post was years ago, he loves his Mazuri now. But now I'm curious, can you post a picture of the nugget type? I wanna see if that's what I'm feeding him.



It's hard to get them to like the Mazuri LS(pellets)...But most like this stuff immediately.


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## thegame2388 (May 24, 2017)

Update: Growth is looking nice. He's at 11,720g now or 25.8lbs. He's 3 years and 9 months old. Thoughts?


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## teresaf (May 24, 2017)

So pretty!


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## Oxalis (May 24, 2017)

thegame2388 said:


> Update: Growth is looking nice. He's at 11,720g now or 25.8lbs. He's 3 years and 9 months old. Thoughts?


I just love that first photo! I'm thinking of making it the wallpaper on my work computer.


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## thegame2388 (May 24, 2017)

Oxalis said:


> I just love that first photo! I'm thinking of making it the wallpaper on my work computer.



That would be the best compliment ever!


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## Fredkas (May 25, 2017)

Oh my! he is big! Look at his eyes. So black and deep. The look is mild. I really like his eyes. You did a great job there!
I like last pic the most. I like to see when a sulcata stand up like that. It feels so strong!


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## Tom (May 25, 2017)

I think he looks great.


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## thegame2388 (May 25, 2017)

Tom said:


> I think he looks great.



That's the endorsement I was looking for!


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## thegame2388 (May 27, 2017)

Tom said:


> I think he looks great.








Spent too much time trying to figure out the polynomial equation to forecast growth. Nevertheless, here's a chart of his growth in recent years with a trajectory towards 2019.


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## Tom (May 27, 2017)

Its always amazing to me how fast they can grow. When they are little we count every gram. Then, within a few months, as they gain size we begin counting by the hundreds of grams, and then by pounds.

So unbelievable that a little 35 gram baby will grow up to be a 55,000 gram monster in such a short time.


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## thegame2388 (Jul 4, 2017)

Tom said:


> Its always amazing to me how fast they can grow. When they are little we count every gram. Then, within a few months, as they gain size we begin counting by the hundreds of grams, and then by pounds.
> 
> So unbelievable that a little 35 gram baby will grow up to be a 55,000 gram monster in such a short time.



Nothing much to update. He's at 12588g (27.75lbs).

I do have a question: Currently in Southern California, like Tom, the temperature reaches somewhere between 100F-110F. Currently, inside his night box, its 102F....but the tortoise does not come out!

My question is: At what temperature would you force the tortoise to come out for his own health? Would you just leave him be (since he's got the option of coming out if he wanted)? Or would you see a health risk and pick him up and bring him out?

Also, our night time temps are between 50-65F. Sometimes he doesn't walk back to his own night box and just hangs out outside and sleeps, should I bring him in or leave him be (next day's highs are in the 100s anyway).


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## Oxalis (Jul 4, 2017)

thegame2388 said:


> Nothing much to update. He's at 12588g (27.75lbs).
> 
> I do have a question: Currently in Southern California, like Tom, the temperature reaches somewhere between 100F-110F. Currently, inside his night box, its 102F....but the tortoise does not come out!
> 
> ...


I have a different situation, living in Michigan with a Russian who's mainly in his indoor enclosure. Every once and a while I pull him out of his night burrow and "remind" him that he needs to warm up under his heat lamp in the morning. I think it's OK to move him in and out of his night box; mine seems to have learned from this what he needs to do. Maybe he will understand after a while? Remember that you're looking out for his best interests, and he may not necessarily know where the best place to find shelter for the night is, for example.


----------



## teresaf (Jul 4, 2017)

thegame2388 said:


> Nothing much to update. He's at 12588g (27.75lbs).
> 
> I do have a question: Currently in Southern California, like Tom, the temperature reaches somewhere between 100F-110F. Currently, inside his night box, its 102F....but the tortoise does not come out!
> 
> ...



Putting him in his night box at night is also good to keep him safe from nocturnal predators....


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## thegame2388 (Jul 4, 2017)

Oxalis said:


> I have a different situation, living in Michigan with a Russian who's mainly in his indoor enclosure. Every once and a while I pull him out of his night burrow and "remind" him that he needs to warm up under his heat lamp in the morning. I think it's OK to move him in and out of his night box; mine seems to have learned from this what he needs to do. Maybe he will understand after a while? Remember that you're looking out for his best interests, and he may not necessarily know where the best place to find shelter for the night is, for example.




Hmmm he knows how to leave and enter. I just worry when it gets 100F+ inside his night box during 11am ish and he still isn't out. I just forced him out at 4pm. It was 108F inside.


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## teresaf (Jul 4, 2017)

thegame2388 said:


> Hmmm he knows how to leave and enter. I just worry when it gets 100F+ inside his night box during 11am ish and he still isn't out. I just forced him out at 4pm. It was 108F inside.


Can you move his box under a tree? If sun doesn't directly shine on box it should stay cooler. Perhaps a tarp or something mounted over it(not ON it, just above it)


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## Tom (Jul 4, 2017)

thegame2388 said:


> Nothing much to update. He's at 12588g (27.75lbs).
> 
> I do have a question: Currently in Southern California, like Tom, the temperature reaches somewhere between 100F-110F. Currently, inside his night box, its 102F....but the tortoise does not come out!
> 
> ...



This year I painted the tops of their boxes white and that is keeping things much cooler. I also starting sprinkling the area down there. I run the sprinkler for 5 minutes two or three times a day and it keeps things much cooler too. That box is in full sun from about 9am until 7 pm every day. When the ambient temp is 105, the box stays 91. It used to get up to 110.

About moving him out: A clear answer doesn't jump out at me. In some situations I would scoot the tortoise's butt out and make sure all was good. In other cases I might jus leave the tortoise in and not worry about it. Many variables would determine which way I'd go.

About moving him in at night: I would move him in every night. I don't like them getting too cold at night. 65 probably won't hurt them with 100+ days every day, but dropping into the 50's… I worry. I unplug my night boxes in summer here and they drop to the low 70's on one of our 55 degree summer nights. Then they usually heat up into the 90s during the day. Since our night temps are so unpredictable and frequently drop into the 50s, I just don't feel comfortable leaving them outside, not to mention leaving them exposed to rats, raccoons, coyotes, etc...


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## thegame2388 (Jul 5, 2017)

Tom said:


> This year I painted the tops of their boxes white and that is keeping things much cooler. I also starting sprinkling the area down there. I run the sprinkler for 5 minutes two or three times a day and it keeps things much cooler too. That box is in full sun from about 9am until 7 pm every day. When the ambient temp is 105, the box stays 91. It used to get up to 110.
> 
> About moving him out: A clear answer doesn't jump out at me. In some situations I would scoot the tortoise's butt out and make sure all was good. In other cases I might jus leave the tortoise in and not worry about it. Many variables would determine which way I'd go.
> 
> About moving him in at night: I would move him in every night. I don't like them getting too cold at night. 65 probably won't hurt them with 100+ days every day, but dropping into the 50's… I worry. I unplug my night boxes in summer here and they drop to the low 70's on one of our 55 degree summer nights. Then they usually heat up into the 90s during the day. Since our night temps are so unpredictable and frequently drop into the 50s, I just don't feel comfortable leaving them outside, not to mention leaving them exposed to rats, raccoons, coyotes, etc...



For me, I know the night temps will not harm them. I am worried, however, about when the tort stays inside their box when its 110F at the ground temperature (at the level of their substrate). Knowing this, I don't mind leaving him outside hiding somewhere, sleeping, knowing he'll be all warmed up.


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## Tom (Jul 5, 2017)

thegame2388 said:


> For me, I know the night temps will not harm them. I am worried, however, about when the tort stays inside their box when its 110F at the ground temperature (at the level of their substrate). Knowing this, I don't mind leaving him outside hiding somewhere, sleeping, knowing he'll be all warmed up.



How do you know night temps in the 50s won't harm them?


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## Markw84 (Jul 5, 2017)

thegame2388 said:


> Hmmm he knows how to leave and enter. I just worry when it gets 100F+ inside his night box during 11am ish and he still isn't out. I just forced him out at 4pm. It was 108F inside.


I would worry about temps that high. A core body temp of over 104° will kill a tortoise. I would never let a tortoise stay in a night box heated over that temperature. They do have a limited ability to cool themselves by watering eyes and extra salivation combined with "panting" by pumping their throat and legs. Using that technique they keep their body temp lower than ambient temps and can apparently survive limited exposure to temps over 115° but I would never test that! I'm not sure at all that they would "know enough" to move out of a hide on their own because it is too hot. The hide (their burrow) is their built in mechanism of where to go when its too hot. They are already where they "think" they should go. 

I would paint the top white as Tom suggests. I also use sprinklers that wet my enclosures every 2 hours through the hotter parts of day - 11, 1, 3, 5. That keeps the enclosure cooler plus keeps the areas under the plants a lot cooler as well. If my enclosures got above 100°, I would block them and not allow the tortoise in.


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## Dizisdalife (Jul 5, 2017)

Markw84 said:


> I would worry about temps that high. A core body temp of over 104° will kill a tortoise. I would never let a tortoise stay in a night box heated over that temperature. They do have a limited ability to cool themselves by watering eyes and extra salivation combined with "panting" by pumping their throat and legs. Using that technique they keep their body temp lower than ambient temps and can apparently survive limited exposure to temps over 115° but I would never test that! I'm not sure at all that they would "know enough" to move out of a hide on their own because it is too hot. The hide (their burrow) is their built in mechanism of where to go when its too hot. They are already where they "think" they should go.
> 
> I would paint the top white as Tom suggests. I also use sprinklers that wet my enclosures every 2 hours through the hotter parts of day - 11, 1, 3, 5. That keeps the enclosure cooler plus keeps the areas under the plants a lot cooler as well. If my enclosures got above 100°, I would block them and not allow the tortoise in.



If you block them out of their night box where do they go to sleep? Would you do this if the night time temps are, say 50°F?


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## Markw84 (Jul 5, 2017)

Dizisdalife said:


> If you block them out of their night box where do they go to sleep? Would you do this if the night time temps are, say 50°F?


I only would block them if (as @thegame2388 is experiencing) the temps inside a night box was above 100° to avoid overheating. Once the temps drop below, open it up for nighttime retreat.

I would not let a tortoise stay out, nor a night box get, below 65° over night. and then only when summer time daytime temps are high. When daytime temps are 70s° and below, I keep my nightbox at 75° plus a basking light during daylight hours.


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## thegame2388 (Jul 5, 2017)

Tom said:


> How do you know night temps in the 50s won't harm them?



I don't. Just speculation. During the summer time, generally speaking, I am more concerned about extreme heat than moderate cold.


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## thegame2388 (Jul 5, 2017)

Markw84 said:


> I would worry about temps that high. A core body temp of over 104° will kill a tortoise. I would never let a tortoise stay in a night box heated over that temperature. They do have a limited ability to cool themselves by watering eyes and extra salivation combined with "panting" by pumping their throat and legs. Using that technique they keep their body temp lower than ambient temps and can apparently survive limited exposure to temps over 115° but I would never test that! I'm not sure at all that they would "know enough" to move out of a hide on their own because it is too hot. The hide (their burrow) is their built in mechanism of where to go when its too hot. They are already where they "think" they should go.
> 
> I would paint the top white as Tom suggests. I also use sprinklers that wet my enclosures every 2 hours through the hotter parts of day - 11, 1, 3, 5. That keeps the enclosure cooler plus keeps the areas under the plants a lot cooler as well. If my enclosures got above 100°, I would block them and not allow the tortoise in.



I just don't get why he won't come out on his own, when it's that high. I can't cool the enclosure myself. The door is open, but it's under direct sunlight which is nice during winter time but not so nice when its summer.


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## thegame2388 (Jul 5, 2017)

Markw84 said:


> I only would block them if (as @thegame2388 is experiencing) the temps inside a night box was above 100° to avoid overheating. Once the temps drop below, open it up for nighttime retreat.
> 
> I would not let a tortoise stay out, nor a night box get, below 65° over night. and then only when summer time daytime temps are high. When daytime temps are 70s° and below, I keep my nightbox at 75° plus a basking light during daylight hours.



As for leaving him be over night outside, he likes to sleep behind our BBQ and in a corner of our backyard which is a bit cute. I am partly okay with this because I know he's safe, and I know the next day's high temp will be over 100F so he'll get plenty of sun and heat.


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## Markw84 (Jul 5, 2017)

thegame2388 said:


> I just don't get why he won't come out on his own, when it's that high. I can't cool the enclosure myself. The door is open, but it's under direct sunlight which is nice during winter time but not so nice when its summer.


what is a tortoise "programmed" to do by instinct when it gets hot? Go into its burrow. If it gets hotter? Go deeper and dig up and find some moist dirt. Definitely not go outside!


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## thegame2388 (Jul 5, 2017)

Markw84 said:


> what is a tortoise "programmed" to do by instinct when it gets hot? Go into its burrow. If it gets hotter? Go deeper and dig up and find some moist dirt. Definitely not go outside!



Hmm true but there's only so much dirt/substrate in there.


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## Dizisdalife (Jul 5, 2017)

Markw84 said:


> I only would block them if (as @thegame2388 is experiencing) the temps inside a night box was above 100° to avoid overheating. Once the temps drop below, open it up for nighttime retreat.
> 
> I would not let a tortoise stay out, nor a night box get, below 65° over night. and then only when summer time daytime temps are high. When daytime temps are 70s° and below, I keep my nightbox at 75° plus a basking light during daylight hours.


Thanks for the clarification. The climate here is a bit milder than your's or Tom's, but we do have days that seem uncomfortably warm, even for a tortoise.


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## Tom (Jul 5, 2017)

thegame2388 said:


> Hmm true but there's only so much dirt/substrate in there.


He's explaining what a wild tortoise would do in excessive heat, that your tortoise cannot do in your box.

Tortoises don't use reason and logic as we do. They use instinct. Our night boxes serve as their "burrows" in the tortoise's mind. It is where they go to escape temperature extremes. When its too hot topside, their instinct tells them to get in their burrow. Too hot in their burrow? Dig down deeper, which they can't do in an above ground box. Leaving the safety of the burrow and going back out into the sun when its too hot goes against their instinct.

You _can_ cool your box to suitable temperatures. Paint the top white, and run a sprinkler all over it for 2-5 minutes a few times a day. They even have battery operated sprinkler controls that you hook up to your hose bib now. Screw the controller to the hose bib, screw the hose with a sprinkler on the end to the controller, and your done. Couldn't be any easier.

I use this type of sprinkler:
https://www.lowes.com/pd/Yardsmith-900-sq-ft-Spray-Sled-Lawn-Sprinkler/50328315

Here are a couple of timer options, but look at your local hardware store for more:
https://www.lowes.com/pd/Orbit-Digital-Hose-Water-Timer/50329571
https://www.1000bulbs.com/product/173698/GROW-HGWT.html?gclid=COjwn_Pg8tQCFYZefgodG9QMkg

You can hand water it if you are around at the right time of day.


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## thegame2388 (Jul 7, 2017)

Currently its about 85F. The low tonight is around 66F....if that. I think he'll be fine.


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## thegame2388 (Sep 3, 2017)

Hey guys, I am a little worried right now. I just checked my tort's weight and it's 12,054g. That's a 98g drop from May 2017 (3 months ago!) and a 534g drop from July 2nd. Should this be a normal weight drop during the summer time? Could it be his poop?

I don't want to assume it's some sort of worm or anything, and I doubt it is, but I just find it odd that he's actually LOST weight.

Any tips?


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## Tom (Sep 3, 2017)

They can definitely poop that much in a day. I'd start weighing weekly, and try to get into a routine so its done at the same time of day and after the same series of events. For example: I always weigh in the afternoon on Mazuri days, after a long soak. This way, they tank up on Mazuri, but they drink and void their bowels in the soak. This makes for more consistent weights. Full or empty stomach and full or empty bowels can make a huge weight difference in a 28 pound tortoise. If your tortoise ate or drank less because of the weird overcast weather we've been having and then had a big bowel movement due to the rain, I would expect the weight to be lower.


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## Alaskamike (Sep 4, 2017)

I've experienced this myself. It worried me , had a fecal check - returned negative. 

For me it was a couple months in winter ( South Florida ). They were inactive & ate less. 

Keep watching. A fecal check is a good idea.


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## thegame2388 (Sep 5, 2017)

Tom said:


> They can definitely poop that much in a day. I'd start weighing weekly, and try to get into a routine so its done at the same time of day and after the same series of events. For example: I always weigh in the afternoon on Mazuri days, after a long soak. This way, they tank up on Mazuri, but they drink and void their bowels in the soak. This makes for more consistent weights. Full or empty stomach and full or empty bowels can make a huge weight difference in a 28 pound tortoise. If your tortoise ate or drank less because of the weird overcast weather we've been having and then had a big bowel movement due to the rain, I would expect the weight to be lower.



It sounds like it's nothing. At what point should I be concerned? If he's the same weight....a month from now? He seems to be eating normally.


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## thegame2388 (Sep 5, 2017)

Alaskamike said:


> I've experienced this myself. It worried me , had a fecal check - returned negative.
> 
> For me it was a couple months in winter ( South Florida ). They were inactive & ate less.
> 
> Keep watching. A fecal check is a good idea.



I will keep watching. I have never seen a downturn in his weight....ever.


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## Tom (Sep 5, 2017)

thegame2388 said:


> It sounds like it's nothing. At what point should I be concerned? If he's the same weight....a month from now? He seems to be eating normally.



I'd watch activity level and appetite. If that seems fine, I wouldn't worry too much.

No harm in taking a fecal in to check for parasites...


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## thegame2388 (Sep 9, 2017)

Tom said:


> I'd watch activity level and appetite. If that seems fine, I wouldn't worry too much.
> 
> No harm in taking a fecal in to check for parasites...



Are these.....rocks?!


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## Tom (Sep 9, 2017)

Looks like it. Many of them eat rocks.

What do you normally feed? It's more common in tortoises that are fed a lot of grocery store produce and less common when they eat mostly grass and weeds.


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## thegame2388 (Sep 9, 2017)

Tom said:


> Looks like it. Many of them eat rocks.
> 
> What do you normally feed? It's more common in tortoises that are fed a lot of grocery store produce and less common when they eat mostly grass and weeds.



You mean lettuce? Why would that cause rocks?


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## Tom (Sep 9, 2017)

thegame2388 said:


> You mean lettuce? Why would that cause rocks?



They will sometimes eat rocks, bark, twigs, etc…, if there is a lack of fiber or minerals, or a mineral imbalance. Things like lettuce do not provide them with what they need, so their body tells them to eat things they shouldn't to try and compensate.

This is the reason we always say that tortoise need "a high fiber, high calcium" diet. For sulcatas this should consist of grass, weeds, leaves, flowers and cactus of the right types.

In some cases they will eat enough rocks to become impacted and die.

So again, what are you typically feeding your tortoise?


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## thegame2388 (Sep 9, 2017)

Tom said:


> They will sometimes eat rocks, bark, twigs, etc…, if there is a lack of fiber or minerals, or a mineral imbalance. Things like lettuce do not provide them with what they need, so their body tells them to eat things they shouldn't to try and compensate.
> 
> This is the reason we always say that tortoise need "a high fiber, high calcium" diet. For sulcatas this should consist of grass, weeds, leaves, flowers and cactus of the right types.
> 
> ...



He just pooped today and I saw this again...what in the world?

His diet has been consistent for 3 years now: Mazuri, chopped greens/kale, and lettuce. 

I have never seen these rocks. At first I thought they were were kidney stones...but there's no way these would calcify like this over a period of days....that would take WEEKS. Another weird thing is that I'm having trouble actually finding these rocks in our backyard....if they're not in our yard, could they something he's been brewing in his stomach for weeks?


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## Dizisdalife (Sep 9, 2017)

Does he have a burrow? Rocks like that could come from below the surface of the ground.


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## thegame2388 (Sep 9, 2017)

Dizisdalife said:


> Does he have a burrow? Rocks like that could come from below the surface of the ground.



No burrow. I'm trying to find where he's eating these rocks...I can't find them.


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## Tom (Sep 9, 2017)

thegame2388 said:


> No burrow. I'm trying to find where he's eating these rocks...I can't find them.



There are little rocks like that all over the ground in our yards. He's seeking them out on purpose.

Time to change his diet and get him eating the right stuff. Read this one again:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/for-those-who-have-a-young-sulcata.76744/

I've got a whole bunch of mature, multi-year old opuntia pads that I recently cut and dried for replanting. Drive your butt up here and get them! No charge. While you are out, look around for mulberry trees. They are everywhere around SoCal.

Know anyone with a horse? If not, find a local feed store near you and see if you can buy some grass hay. Where do you buy your Mazuri? Orchard grass hay or bermuda grass hay work the best. You can buy a whole bale, but that will last one tortoise forever. One bale (About $20 for bern=muda hay and $25 for orchard grass hay.) lasts my whole herd of 13 adults two or three months, and I'm using it for bedding too. I'll give you a bunch in a trash bag to get you started. Hopefully your local feed store will let you rake up the chaff that falls off when they move the bails around. Lay it out in a pile somewhere where it will stay dry, and feed your tortoise on a bed of it for a couple of weeks. In time, if he doesn't start munching on it on his own, you can start grabbing handfuls and chopping it up with scissors onto the pile of greens and mixing it all in.

Know anyone with grape vines or hibiscus plants? Ask your friends and family. They will be happy to have you trim their plants on a regular basis.

In addition to feeding the right foods, you ought to order up some "MinerAll" from Sticky Tongue Farms. Use it three times a week for a couple of weeks and then cut it back to twice a week until the rock eating behavior stops.

When you get this all going the right way, you will save a ton of money too.

If you don't take action and fix this problem, you are likely to have an impacted tortoise in the not too distant future. I'll bet an X-ray would reveal a whole lot more gravel in the GI tract right now.


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## Tom (Sep 9, 2017)

thegame2388 said:


> He just pooped today and I saw this again...what in the world?



The white stuff in the second pic is urates. That is starting to look pretty thick. Let's talk about your soaking routine. Have you gotten lazy or complacent and stopped soaking him. Did you read something on the internet machine from some one in FL that said you don't need to soak them? Who soaks them in nature, right?

Soak your tortoise man. This is how Maggie's Bob died. Lack of soaking will cause those urates to form into a large "stone" and eventually kill him if you don't have it surgically removed in a procedure where they literally saw through the plastron to get inside… Its awful.

Get a big tub and soak him three times a week for an hour or more. Keep this up for two or three weeks, and then you can cut back to once or twice a week in summer. You can use one of those large kiddie pools from Walmart. They only cost $15.


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## thegame2388 (Sep 10, 2017)

Tom said:


> The white stuff in the second pic is urates. That is starting to look pretty thick. Let's talk about your soaking routine. Have you gotten lazy or complacent and stopped soaking him. Did you read something on the internet machine from some one in FL that said you don't need to soak them? Who soaks them in nature, right?
> 
> Soak your tortoise man. This is how Maggie's Bob died. Lack of soaking will cause those urates to form into a large "stone" and eventually kill him if you don't have it surgically removed in a procedure where they literally saw through the plastron to get inside… Its awful.
> 
> Get a big tub and soak him three times a week for an hour or more. Keep this up for two or three weeks, and then you can cut back to once or twice a week in summer. You can use one of those large kiddie pools from Walmart. They only cost $15.



We've isolated the rocks. Removed them. We will soak as much as we can and we will give him more calcium.


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## Tom (Sep 10, 2017)

thegame2388 said:


> We've isolated the rocks. Removed them. We will soak as much as we can and we will give him more calcium.



More calcium is not needed and might make it worse. He needs FIBER and the right foods, as well as BALANCED minerals.

He's not eating the rocks because he's calcium deficient. He's eating the rocks because he's either lacking fiber, lacking the right minerals, he has a mineral imbalance (To which adding calcium will make it worse.), or some combination of two or three of these things.

Removing the rocks will not correct the problem. Adding calcium will not correct the problem. You need to fix the diet, and using the MinerAll will help restore the right mineral and trace element balance. You have a grass eating species. Not a lettuce eating species. Feed your tortoise either fresh grass, or grass hay. Lots of it. Your tortoises diet should be 50-80% grass or grass hay.

Soaking is always good. That will help pass any rocks that have already been ingested, and also help thin out those urates. Adding fiber to the diet in the form of grass, opuntia pads, and the leaves I mentioned will also help pass any previously ingested rocks.


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## thegame2388 (Nov 20, 2017)

Yearly Thanksgiving November size comparison update. Will weigh him in a few days!


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## Oxalis (Nov 21, 2017)

thegame2388 said:


> Yearly Thanksgiving November size comparison update. Will weigh him in a few days!


Cute! Amazing how fast they grow, huh?


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## thegame2388 (Nov 23, 2017)

Tom said:


> They can definitely poop that much in a day. I'd start weighing weekly, and try to get into a routine so its done at the same time of day and after the same series of events. For example: I always weigh in the afternoon on Mazuri days, after a long soak. This way, they tank up on Mazuri, but they drink and void their bowels in the soak. This makes for more consistent weights. Full or empty stomach and full or empty bowels can make a huge weight difference in a 28 pound tortoise. If your tortoise ate or drank less because of the weird overcast weather we've been having and then had a big bowel movement due to the rain, I would expect the weight to be lower.



Most recent weigh-in is at 12,750g...for an increase of about 200g since 3 months ago. Of course, he did poop today so it's perhaps something like 14,000 but who knows. That's my only concern...apart from that, regular grazing, Mazuri, eating, and soaks. Walks and is pretty active.


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## thegame2388 (Nov 29, 2017)

UPDATE 11/29/2017: I notice he eats A LOT more grass than he used to before....not in overall amounts, but just the fact that he's grazing around and eating grass is newer behavior I've noticed, and a welcoming one! His weigh-in today was 12,830g which is nice. I expect a 4.5 year old tortoise to be bigger but hey, maybe that's normal.

Here are some pictures from today:


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## Oxalis (Nov 30, 2017)

thegame2388 said:


> UPDATE 11/29/2017: I notice he eats A LOT more grass than he used to before....not in overall amounts, but just the fact that he's grazing around and eating grass is newer behavior I've noticed, and a welcoming one! His weigh-in today was 12,830g which is nice. I expect a 4.5 year old tortoise to be bigger but hey, maybe that's normal.
> 
> Here are some pictures from today:


Lovely eyes!


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## Tom (Nov 30, 2017)

30 pounds at 4 years old is well within normal. Don't know why you'd expect larger. And if I remember correctly, you moved him outside full time at a small size. They grow slower outside. So 30 pounds for one that been outside as long as yours is impressive.

It is fantastic when they realize they are grass eaters.


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## thegame2388 (Dec 24, 2017)

Tom said:


> 30 pounds at 4 years old is well within normal. Don't know why you'd expect larger. And if I remember correctly, you moved him outside full time at a small size. They grow slower outside. So 30 pounds for one that been outside as long as yours is impressive.
> 
> It is fantastic when they realize they are grass eaters.



Latest update: Nothing major to report. Weighs 13,530g or 29.82lbs. This January 2018 will mark four years that I've had him. He will be 4.5 years old.


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## trickspiration (Dec 24, 2017)

thegame2388 said:


> Latest update: Nothing major to report. Weighs 13,530g or 29.82lbs. This January 2018 will mark four years that I've had him. He will be 4.5 years old.



He is a gorgeous looking fella!


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## Maro2Bear (Dec 24, 2017)

Looking great.


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## Tom (Dec 24, 2017)

That is right around normal size for mine at 4 years old too.


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## Oxalis (Dec 27, 2017)

thegame2388 said:


> Latest update: Nothing major to report. Weighs 13,530g or 29.82lbs. This January 2018 will mark four years that I've had him. He will be 4.5 years old.


Aww, happy fourth birthday, little dude!  He looks quite happy in these photos! Hope you had a wonderful holiday season as well.


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## thegame2388 (Mar 25, 2018)

March 2018 Update:

First off, I can't believe it's been four years since this thread first started. Time flew by quick! With that said, this little monster is now 14,040g or 30.95lbs. 

I have a feeling he's going to outgrow his outdoor enclosure box (he can make a 360 turn, but he might be too wide to exit the door in the next year or two).


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## Jay Bagley (Mar 25, 2018)

thegame2388 said:


> March 2018 Update:
> 
> First off, I can't believe it's been four years since this thread first started. Time flew by quick! With that said, this little monster is now 14,040g or 30.95lbs.
> 
> I have a feeling he's going to outgrow his outdoor enclosure box (he can make a 360 turn, but he might be too wide to exit the door in the next year or two).


He looks great!!


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## Oxalis (Mar 26, 2018)

thegame2388 said:


> March 2018 Update:
> 
> First off, I can't believe it's been four years since this thread first started. Time flew by quick! With that said, this little monster is now 14,040g or 30.95lbs.
> 
> I have a feeling he's going to outgrow his outdoor enclosure box (he can make a 360 turn, but he might be too wide to exit the door in the next year or two).


Sulcatas grow fast, don't they!


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## thegame2388 (Nov 21, 2018)

Tom said:


> That is right around normal size for mine at 4 years old too.




Just a quick question. I'm leaving for the holidays for about 12 days. I'm having someone come every 3 days to put some food for him and leave. I have cameras set up just in case he doesn't go back inside (which I'm no worried about). 

But my issue is more that, since it's cold, he probably won't even come out PERIOD, so my friend will just place the food inside his night box.

My question is, what if he doesn't come out at all and/ior doesn't eat at all during these 9-12 days? (this is assuming, for whatever reason, that he doesn't even eat the food we place inside his night box).


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## Tom (Nov 21, 2018)

thegame2388 said:


> Just a quick question. I'm leaving for the holidays for about 12 days. I'm having someone come every 3 days to put some food for him and leave. I have cameras set up just in case he doesn't go back inside (which I'm no worried about).
> 
> But my issue is more that, since it's cold, he probably won't even come out PERIOD, so my friend will just place the food inside his night box.
> 
> My question is, what if he doesn't come out at all and/ior doesn't eat at all during these 9-12 days? (this is assuming, for whatever reason, that he doesn't even eat the food we place inside his night box).


What temp is the night box at? I bump mine up to 86 in winter and all of mine continue coming out and eating.

I wouldn't put the food inside the night box, unless that is what you normally do. I'd leave the food in the same place you always leave it.

Do you feed him hay yet? If yes, I'd leave hay and a bunch of opuntia pads for him. Does he eat opuntia? I can't remember where you are, but if you want some free pads, we can try to meet up.


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## thegame2388 (Nov 21, 2018)

Tom said:


> What temp is the night box at? I bump mine up to 86 in winter and all of mine continue coming out and eating.
> 
> I wouldn't put the food inside the night box, unless that is what you normally do. I'd leave the food in the same place you always leave it.
> 
> Do you feed him hay yet? If yes, I'd leave hay and a bunch of opuntia pads for him. Does he eat opuntia? I can't remember where you are, but if you want some free pads, we can try to meet up.



Night box is 80-85F 24/7. 

I can put he food outside which is where it normally is (about 2 feet outside this nightbox ramp) but I'm afraid because it's pretty chill outside, that he won't even step out to explore. I'm okay with having someone place food inside his enclosure every 3 days or so.


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## Big Charlie (Nov 21, 2018)

thegame2388 said:


> Night box is 80-85F 24/7.
> 
> I can put he food outside which is where it normally is (about 2 feet outside this nightbox ramp) but I'm afraid because it's pretty chill outside, that he won't even step out to explore. I'm okay with having someone place food inside his enclosure every 3 days or so.


Where are you? How low are the daytime temperatures? If the box is warm enough, he will probably come out every day. Charlie does, even if it is only for an hour. The first year I had his night box, Charlie didn't come out everyday. I think it wasn't warm enough. He didn't eat for a really long time. If your tortoise doesn't eat for 12 days, he'll be fine.


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## thegame2388 (Nov 21, 2018)

Big Charlie said:


> Where are you? How low are the daytime temperatures? If the box is warm enough, he will probably come out every day. Charlie does, even if it is only for an hour. The first year I had his night box, Charlie didn't come out everyday. I think it wasn't warm enough. He didn't eat for a really long time. If your tortoise doesn't eat for 12 days, he'll be fine.



Okay that sounds much better. I live in the Southwest so about 60-75F day time temps, but inside his night box, it's 85F. 

I'll have a friend place food inside his nightbox every 3 days or so.


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## thegame2388 (Dec 13, 2018)

Yearly November/December comparison photos. Same prop! He weighs about 40lbs but I will update later 






Only "issue" is that he only eats what I give him. In other words, he doesn't walk around the backyard and eat the TON of grass, hay, leafy greens, weeds, and general green vegetation around. We have greens everywhere!!!!!!!


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## thegame2388 (May 3, 2019)

Tom said:


> What temp is the night box at? I bump mine up to 86 in winter and all of mine continue coming out and eating.
> 
> I wouldn't put the food inside the night box, unless that is what you normally do. I'd leave the food in the same place you always leave it.
> 
> Do you feed him hay yet? If yes, I'd leave hay and a bunch of opuntia pads for him. Does he eat opuntia? I can't remember where you are, but if you want some free pads, we can try to meet up.




Hi Tom. Just a quick question (to anyone else that can answer too). Tort is almost 6 now (in August) but in the past 1.5 weeks or so, he just doesn't come out of his outdoor enclosure. Temps are 85-90F 24/7. The only time he eats is if I actually pick him up and remove him and place him outside, then I'll feed. Other than that, even today, he just doesn't move from his corner spot in his enclosure. What do you suggest? He'll eat every 2-3 days when I force him out, but otherwise, he'd probably still be inside this entire time if it weren't for me.


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## Big Charlie (May 3, 2019)

thegame2388 said:


> Hi Tom. Just a quick question (to anyone else that can answer too). Tort is almost 6 now (in August) but in the past 1.5 weeks or so, he just doesn't come out of his outdoor enclosure. Temps are 85-90F 24/7. The only time he eats is if I actually pick him up and remove him and place him outside, then I'll feed. Other than that, even today, he just doesn't move from his corner spot in his enclosure. What do you suggest? He'll eat every 2-3 days when I force him out, but otherwise, he'd probably still be inside this entire time if it weren't for me.


What are your outdoor temperatures? Where are you located? That doesn't sound right. If he is warm enough, he should be coming out to eat every day.


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## Tom (May 3, 2019)

thegame2388 said:


> Hi Tom. Just a quick question (to anyone else that can answer too). Tort is almost 6 now (in August) but in the past 1.5 weeks or so, he just doesn't come out of his outdoor enclosure. Temps are 85-90F 24/7. The only time he eats is if I actually pick him up and remove him and place him outside, then I'll feed. Other than that, even today, he just doesn't move from his corner spot in his enclosure. What do you suggest? He'll eat every 2-3 days when I force him out, but otherwise, he'd probably still be inside this entire time if it weren't for me.


When is the last time you soaked him?


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## thegame2388 (May 3, 2019)

Tom said:


> When is the last time you soaked him?



About a week. I figured it could be a soaking issue but I've been consistent (either right or wrong) since August. Nothing out of routine. 

I soaked him today and he pooped.


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## thegame2388 (May 3, 2019)

Big Charlie said:


> What are your outdoor temperatures? Where are you located? That doesn't sound right. If he is warm enough, he should be coming out to eat every day.



Arizona so it's 80-95F during the day. It's also that temperature inside the enclosure 24/7.


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## EllieMay (May 4, 2019)

thegame2388 said:


> About a week. I figured it could be a soaking issue but I've been consistent (either right or wrong) since August. Nothing out of routine.
> 
> I soaked him today and he pooped.



Are you sure he’s not coming out at all? I put a WiFi camera in my box because I was a nervous wreck with mine’s move outside. It took a few weeks but he is settled with a routine now. I would never see him during the work week if I didn’t make an effort. The camera tells me that he comes out every day close to noon and stays out for a couple of hours. When I come home, he is always settled in his box. It would appear that he never moves if I didn’t know better


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## thegame2388 (May 4, 2019)

EllieMay said:


> Are you sure he’s not coming out at all? I put a WiFi camera in my box because I was a nervous wreck with mine’s move outside. It took a few weeks but he is settled with a routine now. I would never see him during the work week if I didn’t make an effort. The camera tells me that he comes out every day close to noon and stays out for a couple of hours. When I come home, he is always settled in his box. It would appear that he never moves if I didn’t know better



I have a camera too. I know he doesn't come out. He just stays in his corner. I soaked him yesterday and he pooped out his entire system. I soaked him today (no feeding yesterday) and he pooped nothing, obviously. Both soaks were 1+ hour.


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## thegame2388 (May 7, 2019)

Tom said:


> When is the last time you soaked him?




I put him back Sunday. He hasn't come out since. Been in his corner for 48 hours. Should I just wait it out until he comes out on his own (maybe he'll be hungry enough) or should I forcefully keep bringing him out to eat? I don't know what to d.


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## thegame2388 (Sep 1, 2019)

HAPPY 6TH BIRTHDAY!!!!!!!!!!!!

No further updates. I feed him the bowl you see in picture every 3 days. He eats pretty much the whole thing. Apart from that, my entire backyard has got grass, weeds, and other things for him to graze on. I do catch up eating on his own from time to time. He has a water bowl nearby and has an air-mist that blows on him every 1 hour. Our temps are 80-110F!


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## thegame2388 (Aug 16, 2020)

Holy cow it's been almost a year!

Latest update:

He weighs 53.5 lbs as of yesterday! Nothing much else to report on. Included some pictures 

He turns 7 in late August


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