# URGENT Please help! Speedy is deteriorating.



## Speedy101 (Dec 4, 2020)

I posted not long ago about speedy vomiting, he got wormed, hasn’t ate on own in 2 weeks but got tube fed at the vet on Tuesday. Hasn’t defecated or vomited in 2 weeks nearly but has urinated and passed mucus that look like it contained small worms. The problem is he can’t walk! This happened a couple of days after vomiting episode and medication. All of his legs can move but he cannot walk on his own I’m so worried. He got an X-ray and everything was fine on it, no blockages and lungs are fine. Does anyone have any idea why this has happened? I know most will probably think calcium deficiency but this happened within the time frame of him being suddenly unwell. He was a strong tortoise before and still was until a couple of days after worming medicine. Back at vet next Tuesday for second worming and I am soaking in carrots and reptoboost ( on different days). I was concerned about renal failure but he has no stones and is not puffy and would this not show enlarged kidneys on X-ray? Is it possible he is just extremely lethargic from a heavy parasite load?( not confirmed which parasite, vet saw eggs in a dried, tiny poo sample and because of vomiting, wormed him). I have been unsuccessful in getting a proper poo sample.He has passed more mucus today is this flagellates? Could they cause these symptoms? Please any opinions why isn’t my boy walking?


----------



## KarenSoCal (Dec 4, 2020)

Speedy101 said:


> I posted not long ago about speedy vomiting, he got wormed, hasn’t ate on own in 2 weeks but got tube fed at the vet on Tuesday. Hasn’t defecated or vomited in 2 weeks nearly but has urinated and passed mucus that look like it contained small worms. The problem is he can’t walk! This happened a couple of days after vomiting episode and medication. All of his legs can move but he cannot walk on his own I’m so worried. He got an X-ray and everything was fine on it, no blockages and lungs are fine. Does anyone have any idea why this has happened? I know most will probably think calcium deficiency but this happened within the time frame of him being suddenly unwell. He was a strong tortoise before and still was until a couple of days after worming medicine. Back at vet next Tuesday for second worming and I am soaking in carrots and reptoboost ( on different days). I was concerned about renal failure but he has no stones and is not puffy and would this not show enlarged kidneys on X-ray? Is it possible he is just extremely lethargic from a heavy parasite load?( not confirmed which parasite, vet saw eggs in a dried, tiny poo sample and because of vomiting, wormed him). I have been unsuccessful in getting a proper poo sample.He has passed more mucus today is this flagellates? Could they cause these symptoms? Please any opinions why isn’t my boy walking?



I'm so sorry that Speedy is sick. I don't have any help to offer, but know that I'm praying for him.

Maybe @zovick or
@GMDVM can help.


----------



## Aloysius Taschse (Dec 4, 2020)

Yes - prayers to Speedy. Make sure he is comfortable and gets lots of love, and the walking problem is probably because either it hurts really bad or he is just so sick that he doesn't want to walk and instead just wants to sleep. Either way, we are all praying for him and everyone hopes that he will get better.


----------



## Speedy101 (Dec 4, 2020)

KarenSoCal said:


> I'm so sorry that Speedy is sick. I don't have any help to offer, but know that I'm praying for him.
> 
> Maybe @zovick or
> @GMDVM can help.



Thank you ??


----------



## Speedy101 (Dec 4, 2020)

Aloysius Taschse said:


> Yes - prayers to Speedy. Make sure he is comfortable and gets lots of love, and the walking problem is probably because either it hurts really bad or he is just so sick that he doesn't want to walk and instead just wants to sleep. Either way, we are all praying for him and everyone hopes that he will get better.



Thank you very much, his eyes are still bright and alert. Hopefully this is good sign.


----------



## zovick (Dec 4, 2020)

Speedy101 said:


> I posted not long ago about speedy vomiting, he got wormed, hasn’t ate on own in 2 weeks but got tube fed at the vet on Tuesday. Hasn’t defecated or vomited in 2 weeks nearly but has urinated and passed mucus that look like it contained small worms. The problem is he can’t walk! This happened a couple of days after vomiting episode and medication. All of his legs can move but he cannot walk on his own I’m so worried. He got an X-ray and everything was fine on it, no blockages and lungs are fine. Does anyone have any idea why this has happened? I know most will probably think calcium deficiency but this happened within the time frame of him being suddenly unwell. He was a strong tortoise before and still was until a couple of days after worming medicine. Back at vet next Tuesday for second worming and I am soaking in carrots and reptoboost ( on different days). I was concerned about renal failure but he has no stones and is not puffy and would this not show enlarged kidneys on X-ray? Is it possible he is just extremely lethargic from a heavy parasite load?( not confirmed which parasite, vet saw eggs in a dried, tiny poo sample and because of vomiting, wormed him). I have been unsuccessful in getting a proper poo sample.He has passed more mucus today is this flagellates? Could they cause these symptoms? Please any opinions why isn’t my boy walking?


The tortoise may have amoebiasis which can result in mucousy stools. This would need to be treated with Flagyl (metronidazole). The vomiting can be a result of amoebiasis also, but vomiting may also be a sign of cryptosporidium infestation. Cryptosporidium is treated with Paramomycin (monomycin or aminosidine), but it is never considered cured. The affected animal must be quarantined and treated weekly for life if it survives.

Both of the above problems would need to be diagnosed by a good vet and the appropriate treatment begun if one of both parasites are found to be present.

Hopefully your tortoise has neither of the above, but they should be ruled out since the tortoise is getting worse even after being wormed. Do you know what medication was used?


----------



## Speedy101 (Dec 4, 2020)

zovick said:


> The tortoise may have amoebiasis which can result in mucousy stools. This would need to be treated with Flagyl (metronidazole). The vomiting can be a result of amoebiasis also, but vomiting may also be a sign of cryptosporidium infestation. Cryptosporidium is treated with Paramomycin (monomycin or aminosidine), but it is never considered cured. The affected animal must be quarantined treated weekly for life if it survives.
> 
> Both of the above problems would need to be diagnosed by a good vet and the appropriate treatment begun if one of both parasites are found to be present.
> 
> Hopefully your tortoise has neither of the above, but they should be ruled out since the tortoise is getting worse even after being wormed. Do you know what medication was used?



I don’t I’m afraid I should’ve asked. How can we rule these out? blood test? My vet deals with lots of reptiles and has his own tortoise. He seems knowledgeable about them. Can speedy wait until next Tuesday or is this urgent? I don’t want to make him worse with extra stress from vets but if it’s necessary of course.


----------



## Speedy101 (Dec 4, 2020)

Here’s speedy sleeping and In his carrot bath, he’s on puppy pads at the moment so I can disinfect easily.


----------



## zovick (Dec 4, 2020)

Speedy101 said:


> I don’t I’m afraid I should’ve asked. How can we rule these out? blood test? My vet deals with lots of reptiles and has his own tortoise. He seems knowledgeable about them. Can speedy wait until next Tuesday or is this urgent? I don’t want to make him worse with extra stress from vets but if it’s necessary of course.


These are usually diagnosed through examination of stool samples and/or swabbing the cloaca. I think the mucus stool would suffice if you cannot get a normal sample. As far as urgency, neither of the problems I mentioned are simple ones. Both can be life-threatening, especially the crypto. You would have to decide if you think the tortoise can wait till next week or not. We don't know if it really has either of these parasites at this point, but diagnosing the actual culprit is the key to the treatment and the outcome. Maybe you can take the tortoise tomorrow for a swab and check-up with or without any matter (mucus or feces) which has been passed through the cloaca to the outside.


----------



## Roxanneizded (Dec 4, 2020)

Speedy101 said:


> I don’t I’m afraid I should’ve asked. How can we rule these out? blood test? My vet deals with lots of reptiles and has his own tortoise. He seems knowledgeable about them. Can speedy wait until next Tuesday or is this urgent? I don’t want to make him worse with extra stress from vets but if it’s necessary of course.


I'm sorry for your stress. It sounds like Speedy has a very large parasite load. Sometimes, a large infusion of medication can be detrimental and some vets choose a smaller dose everyday for a number of days. For now, increase his ambient temperature to 90-95 degrees F. Soak him in warm plain Pedialyte. You can make your own electrolyte solution. Soak 3 to 4 times a day 30 minutes at a time. Hydration is everything. I believe he might pull through. Let's stay positive. Be sure his environment is clean.


----------



## vladimir (Dec 4, 2020)

Just wanted to offer support - I hope Speedy is feeling better soon.


----------



## Speedy101 (Dec 4, 2020)

zovick said:


> These are usually diagnosed through examination of stool samples and/or swabbing the cloaca. I think the mucus stool would suffice if you cannot get a normal sample. As far as urgency, neither of the problems I mentioned are simple ones. Both can be life-threatening, especially the crypto. You would have to decide if you think the tortoise can wait till next week or not. We don't know if it really has either of these parasites at this point, but diagnosing the actual culprit is the key to the treatment and the outcome. Maybe you can take the tortoise tomorrow for a swab and check-up with or without any matter (mucus or feces) which has been passed through the cloaca to the outside.


 
Okay thank you very much for your help, I will ring tomorrow and hope for the best.


----------



## Speedy101 (Dec 4, 2020)

Roxanneizded said:


> I'm sorry for your stress. It sounds like Speedy has a very large parasite load. Sometimes, a large infusion of medication can be detrimental and some vets choose a smaller dose everyday for a number of days. For now, increase his ambient temperature to 90-95 degrees F. Soak him in warm plain Pedialyte. You can make your own electrolyte solution. Soak 3 to 4 times a day 30 minutes at a time. Hydration is everything. I believe he might pull through. Let's stay positive. Be sure his environment is clean.


 I believe Reptoboost is similar to pedialyte, it has electrolytes and glucose in it along with other vitamins. I have been soaking and he has been drinking a lot. I hope you are right, I would be devastated if I were to lose him. Thanks for your help.


----------



## Speedy101 (Dec 4, 2020)

vladimir said:


> Just wanted to offer support - I hope Speedy is feeling better soon.


Thank you that’s very kind, me too.


----------



## Roxanneizded (Dec 4, 2020)

Speedy101 said:


> I believe Reptoboost is similar to pedialyte, it has electrolytes and glucose in it along with other vitamins. I have been soaking and he has been drinking a lot. I hope you are right, I would be devastated if I were to lose him. Thanks for your help.


I think you are going to succeed.


----------



## AZGirl (Dec 4, 2020)

Speedy101 said:


> I posted not long ago about speedy vomiting, he got wormed, hasn’t ate on own in 2 weeks but got tube fed at the vet on Tuesday. Hasn’t defecated or vomited in 2 weeks nearly but has urinated and passed mucus that look like it contained small worms. The problem is he can’t walk! This happened a couple of days after vomiting episode and medication. All of his legs can move but he cannot walk on his own I’m so worried. He got an X-ray and everything was fine on it, no blockages and lungs are fine. Does anyone have any idea why this has happened? I know most will probably think calcium deficiency but this happened within the time frame of him being suddenly unwell. He was a strong tortoise before and still was until a couple of days after worming medicine. Back at vet next Tuesday for second worming and I am soaking in carrots and reptoboost ( on different days). I was concerned about renal failure but he has no stones and is not puffy and would this not show enlarged kidneys on X-ray? Is it possible he is just extremely lethargic from a heavy parasite load?( not confirmed which parasite, vet saw eggs in a dried, tiny poo sample and because of vomiting, wormed him). I have been unsuccessful in getting a proper poo sample.He has passed more mucus today is this flagellates? Could they cause these symptoms? Please any opinions why isn’t my boy walking?


I am such a newbie, but will also say some prayers for Speedy And you! ???


----------



## zovick (Dec 4, 2020)

Speedy101 said:


> Okay thank you very much for your help, I will ring tomorrow and hope for the best.


Good luck! And be sure to let us know if you do go to the vet and anything is discovered tomorrow.


----------



## Speedy101 (Dec 4, 2020)

AZGirl said:


> I am such a newbie, but will also say some prayers for Speedy And you! ???


Thank you!


----------



## Speedy101 (Dec 4, 2020)

zovick said:


> Good luck! And be sure to let us know if you do go to the vet and anything is discovered tomorrow.


Thanks again! I will be sure to let you know, hopefully I can get an appointment.


----------



## Speedy101 (Dec 4, 2020)

zovick said:


> Good luck! And be sure to let us know if you do go to the vet and anything is discovered tomorrow.



Speedy has just made a high pitched squeal when weeing and then had this thick discharge around his cloaca, I’ve bottled for vet although I don’t know if it’s much use. Any ideas what could cause this? Thanks again.


----------



## zovick (Dec 4, 2020)

Speedy101 said:


> Speedy has just made a high pitched squeal when weeing and then had this thick discharge around his cloaca, I’ve bottled for vet although I don’t know if it’s much use. Any ideas what could cause this? Thanks again.


How long has it been since the tortoise has eaten? It looks like what I have seen from animals that have not eaten for a very long time. Other than that, I would guess that it is due to irritation of the gut lining from one or another of the parasites we have been discussing.


----------



## Speedy101 (Dec 4, 2020)

zovick said:


> How long has it been since the tortoise has eaten? It looks like what I have seen from animals that have not eaten for a very long time. Other than that, I would guess that it is due to irritation of the gut lining from one or another of the parasites we have been discussing.


 He last ate on the 23rd of November but he threw it all up, vet tube fed him into stomach this Tuesday Just gone. Can parasites cos lack of mobility or might it be from the obvious pain he’s experiencing hence the squeal.


----------



## Roxanneizded (Dec 4, 2020)

I believe he is uncomfortable due to excreting medication and parasitic debris. Keep up what you are doing. Practice good hand washing and stop stimulating him. Decrease the stimuli in his environment. Relax. You got this.


----------



## Speedy101 (Dec 4, 2020)

Roxanneizded said:


> I believe he is uncomfortable due to excreting medication and parasitic debris. Keep up what you are doing. Practice good hand washing and stop stimulating him. Decrease the stimuli in his environment. Relax. You got this.


I’ll let him rest okay thanks! If vet suggests more medication, should I decline until I have a solid diagnosis? Would even more medication now be extremely bad? 
Like I said he has his second worming dose next Tuesday.


----------



## zovick (Dec 4, 2020)

Speedy101 said:


> I’ll let him rest okay thanks! If vet suggests more medication, should I decline until I have a solid diagnosis? Would even more medication now be extremely bad?
> Like I said he has his second worming dose next Tuesday.


More medication would be OK if it is indicated for treatment of some other organism which the current worming medication does not treat. The priority in my mind is to determine exactly what parasite(s) the tortoise has or does not have in its digestive tract and then treat it accordingly. 

Tube feeding may be necessary to get medication(s) and a nutritional supplement into the tortoise, I would ask the vet to place a feeding tube into the tortoise's neck so you can administer the medication(s) and foods at home without necessitating numerous trips to the vet. This is more accurate for giving medication and much less stressful for the tortoise than trying to force its mouth open and give these things orally which could result in their accidental aspiration and subsequent pneumonia.


----------



## Roxanneizded (Dec 4, 2020)

Speedy101 said:


> I’ll let him rest okay thanks! If vet suggests more medication, should I decline until I have a solid diagnosis? Would even more medication now be extremely bad?
> Like I said he has his second worming dose next Tuesday.


You have until next Tuesday. At this point, follow your vet's recommendation. Healing is going to take a while. A few weeks to build him up; at minimum. If you quit treatment, the parasites will rebound with a vengence. Keep him warm and hydrated. Reptiles are tough. And so are you. Speedy is doing his best. Take a breather.


----------



## Speedy101 (Dec 4, 2020)

zovick said:


> More medication would be OK if it is indicated for treatment of some other organism which the current worming medication does not treat. The priority in my mind is to determine exactly what parasite(s) the tortoise has or does not have in its digestive tract and then treat it accordingly.
> 
> Tube feeding may be necessary to get medication(s) and a nutritional supplement into the tortoise, I would ask the vet to place a feeding tube into the tortoise's neck so you can administer the medication(s) and foods at home without necessitating numerous trips to the vet. This is more accurate for giving medication and much less stressful for the tortoise than trying to force its mouth open and give these things orally which could result in their accidental aspiration and subsequent pneumonia.



Would a sample of that discharge, which I have just shown you, be of any use? Wouldn’t it be difficult to diagnose the exact parasites without a good fecal or mucus sample.


----------



## Speedy101 (Dec 4, 2020)

Roxanneizded said:


> You have until next Tuesday. At this point, follow your vet's recommendation. Healing is going to take a while. A few weeks to build him up; at minimum. If you quit treatment, the parasites will rebound with a vengence. Keep him warm and hydrated. Reptiles are tough. And so are you. Speedy is doing his best. Take a breather.



He is a tough little fella! His illness shocked me because it was so sudden, no indication of parasitic overload before the vomiting. Thank you, you’ve given me some hope.


----------



## Speedy101 (Dec 4, 2020)

zovick said:


> More medication would be OK if it is indicated for treatment of some other organism which the current worming medication does not treat. The priority in my mind is to determine exactly what parasite(s) the tortoise has or does not have in its digestive tract and then treat it accordingly.
> 
> Tube feeding may be necessary to get medication(s) and a nutritional supplement into the tortoise, I would ask the vet to place a feeding tube into the tortoise's neck so you can administer the medication(s) and foods at home without necessitating numerous trips to the vet. This is more accurate for giving medication and much less stressful for the tortoise than trying to force its mouth open and give these things orally which could result in their accidental aspiration and subsequent pneumonia.



Also in relation to the feeding tube, I agree but isn’t putting him under anaesthesia going to be a big risk while he’s in this state?


----------



## Roxanneizded (Dec 4, 2020)

Speedy101 said:


> Would a sample of that discharge, which I have just shown you, be of any use? Wouldn’t it be difficult to diagnose the exact parasites without a good fecal or mucus sample.


Put it into a clean jar and take it with you. Date it. Place it in the refrigerator. Most medications for tortoises are broad spectrum anyway. They cover a majority of offending parasites and other creepy crawlies. It looks like pus on that Q-tip. You can't always get a sample. Your vet made a good educated guess. Reptile medicine is limited. You got this, ye of little faith. Keep up the good work.


----------



## Roxanneizded (Dec 4, 2020)

Roxanneizded said:


> Put it into a clean jar and take it with you. Date it. Place it in the refrigerator. Most medications for tortoises are broad spectrum anyway. They cover a majority of offending parasites and other creepy crawlies. It looks like pus on that Q-tip. You can't always get a sample. Your vet made a good educated guess. Reptile medicine is limited. You got this, ye of little faith. Keep up the good work.


The vet will see the pus on the Q-tip. No harm done. I don't know what Speedy received as treatment. Get that info on Tuesday.


----------



## Speedy101 (Dec 4, 2020)

Roxanneizded said:


> The vet will see the pus on the Q-tip. No harm done. I don't know what Speedy received as treatment. Get that info on Tuesday.



I will, I think I’ll ring the vet tomorrow to ask for advice about him before I cause him extra stress. Hopefully he can wait until Tuesday, I’ll see in the morning as it is late over here in UK. Thanks again for all your advice it’s been very helpful


----------



## Roxanneizded (Dec 4, 2020)

Speedy101 said:


> I will, I think I’ll ring the vet tomorrow to ask for advice about him before I cause him extra stress. Hopefully he can wait until Tuesday, I’ll see in the morning as it is late over here in UK. Thanks again for all your advice it’s been very helpful


Goodnight. All you can do is your best.


----------



## GMDVM (Dec 4, 2020)

Have we done blood work? At this time supportive care is most important until an accurate diagnosis is made. I agree that a feeding ( esophagostomy ) tube would be an excellent way to administer nutrition and medications at home without causing stress- placement is not a lengthy procedure, but always take an Xray after to assure the tube is in the correct spot. 
So sorry that Speedy is ill- keep us posted.


----------



## Chefdenoel10 (Dec 4, 2020)

Speedy101 said:


> Thank you very much, his eyes are still bright and alert. Hopefully this is good sign.



that’s good....
Warm soaks
Try unflavored pedialite in his bath water.
What kind of meds (for worms ) did the doctor give you?
Maybe he is reacting to that?
How long till the worms will be gone?


----------



## Chefdenoel10 (Dec 4, 2020)

Speedy101 said:


> Okay thank you very much for your help, I will ring tomorrow and hope for the best.



I will be praying for speedy!
You have my support too!!! ????


----------



## Speedy101 (Dec 5, 2020)

Chefdenoel10 said:


> that’s good....
> Warm soaks
> Try unflavored pedialite in his bath water.
> What kind of meds (for worms ) did the doctor give you?
> ...


Hi,
Next Tuesday is his last worming and I’m not sure if he is reacting to that but he was unwell vomiting before it. I don’t know what medicine was used, I shall ask next visit.


----------



## Speedy101 (Dec 5, 2020)

Chefdenoel10 said:


> I will be praying for speedy!
> You have my support too!!! ????


Thank you! ?


----------



## Speedy101 (Dec 5, 2020)

GMDVM said:


> Have we done blood work? At this time supportive care is most important until an accurate diagnosis is made. I agree that a feeding ( esophagostomy ) tube would be an excellent way to administer nutrition and medications at home without causing stress- placement is not a lengthy procedure, but always take an Xray after to assure the tube is in the correct spot.
> So sorry that Speedy is ill- keep us posted.



No blood work yet, just an X-ray which showed nothing out of sorts. I’m going to ring vet today to ask for advice on how we proceed. I think feeding tube is the right path aswell, if I can feed him myself I can keep his energy up perhaps. Thanks.


----------



## Speedy101 (Dec 5, 2020)

He’s still with us this morning, here he is in his reptoboost soak.


----------



## Speedy101 (Dec 5, 2020)

One thing to note, on the X-ray, the vet did say speedy had gas bubbles in his stomach but it was not massively distended.


----------



## Speedy101 (Dec 5, 2020)

Rang vets no appointments until Tuesday, they gave speedy panacur.


----------



## Speedy101 (Dec 5, 2020)

Speedy101 said:


> Rang vets no appointments until Tuesday, they gave speedy panacur.


Tried to ring other reptile vets in the area, that mine recommended but no appointments anywhere, I think my best bet and only choice is to keep him comfortable, warm and hydrated until Tuesday.


----------



## Maggie3fan (Dec 5, 2020)

Speedy101 said:


> Also in relation to the feeding tube, I agree but isn’t putting him under anaesthesia going to be a big risk while he’s in this state?


Tortoises have a really hard time with anesthesia. I lost a 17 yr old Sulcata to a huge bladder stone, but he wouldn't come out of the anesthesia and ultimately it was the anesthesia that killed him. I realize that possibly I am a little gun shy on the anesthesia topic. But me? I'd only do the feeding tube if he were in a life or death situation. Maybe Speedy is at that point. I 'thought' I read that he had last eaten on Nov 23rd but I can't find it. That's not hardly any time at all for a species that can go without eating for months. I didn't say Speedy *should* go that long without eating, I said *can* go without. Personally, if he did eat on Nov 23rd there's no way in hell I'd risk anesthesia at this point. A parasite load, antibiotics, or too cool temps may cause tortoises to lose it's appetite for a period of time. I'd do carrot soaks daily add Pedialite to the carrot soaks if you want. But plz at least think about what I have said. I am NOT a Vet, altho I do watch one on TV.

When I came home from being gone for 2 weeks, 3 of my box turtles, all in the same tort table, wouldn't eat, or move or couldn't open swollen eyes. My case is different than your's mine are turtles not tortoises but now for 3 weeks I've been doing the carrot soaks w/antibiotic powder in the carrot water daily, every day for 3 weeks, 2 now have open eye and are eating, not a lot, but still...Here's the one who's not eating yet, he still has ok weight but look at him carrot and antibiotic soaks daily, for 3 weeks along with sub Q fluids for 1 week yet he looks like he's just come out of the desert.


----------



## Speedy101 (Dec 5, 2020)

maggie3fan said:


> Tortoises have a really hard time with anesthesia. I lost a 17 yr old Sulcata to a huge bladder stone, but he wouldn't come out of the anesthesia and ultimately it was the anesthesia that killed him. I realize that possibly I am a little gun shy on the anesthesia topic. But me? I'd only do the feeding tube if he were in a life or death situation. Maybe Speedy is at that point. I 'thought' I read that he had last eaten on Nov 23rd but I can't find it. That's not hardly any time at all for a species that can go without eating for months. I didn't say Speedy *should* go that long without eating, I said *can* go without. Personally, if he did eat on Nov 23rd there's no way in hell I'd risk anesthesia at this point. A parasite load, antibiotics, or too cool temps may cause tortoises to lose it's appetite for a period of time. I'd do carrot soaks daily add Pedialite to the carrot soaks if you want. But plz at least think about what I have said. I am NOT a Vet, altho I do watch one on TV.
> 
> When I came home from being gone for 2 weeks, 3 of my box turtles, all in the same tort table, wouldn't eat, or move or couldn't open swollen eyes. My case is different than your's mine are turtles not tortoises but now for 3 weeks I've been doing the carrot soaks w/antibiotic powder in the carrot water daily, every day for 3 weeks, 2 now have open eye and are eating, not a lot, but still...Here's the one who's not eating yet, he still has ok weight but look at him carrot and antibiotic soaks daily, for 3 weeks along with sub Q fluids for 1 week yet he looks like he's just come out of the desert.
> View attachment 312401



Hi thank you for your input and I am sorry about your sulcata. He did eat on the 23rd but ultimately vomited it up. I am doing the soaks twice a day with Reptoboost and carrot. His eyes are still bright and alert when he is awake although he is very sleepy. I will definitely take into account what you have said about the feeding tube, I did voice my concern about putting him to sleep when he’s in this fragile state. My biggest concern is that he isn’t walking ( no strength to lift himself) which I think is because he is in pain. Speedy has not lost any weight yet but I have been soaking him a lot. Water weight perhaps? I will see what the vet suggests on Tuesday and will keep in mind what you have said, thank you!


----------



## Chefdenoel10 (Dec 5, 2020)

maggie3fan said:


> Tortoises have a really hard time with anesthesia. I lost a 17 yr old Sulcata to a huge bladder stone, but he wouldn't come out of the anesthesia and ultimately it was the anesthesia that killed him. I realize that possibly I am a little gun shy on the anesthesia topic. But me? I'd only do the feeding tube if he were in a life or death situation. Maybe Speedy is at that point. I 'thought' I read that he had last eaten on Nov 23rd but I can't find it. That's not hardly any time at all for a species that can go without eating for months. I didn't say Speedy *should* go that long without eating, I said *can* go without. Personally, if he did eat on Nov 23rd there's no way in hell I'd risk anesthesia at this point. A parasite load, antibiotics, or too cool temps may cause tortoises to lose it's appetite for a period of time. I'd do carrot soaks daily add Pedialite to the carrot soaks if you want. But plz at least think about what I have said. I am NOT a Vet, altho I do watch one on TV.
> 
> When I came home from being gone for 2 weeks, 3 of my box turtles, all in the same tort table, wouldn't eat, or move or couldn't open swollen eyes. My case is different than your's mine are turtles not tortoises but now for 3 weeks I've been doing the carrot soaks w/antibiotic powder in the carrot water daily, every day for 3 weeks, 2 now have open eye and are eating, not a lot, but still...Here's the one who's not eating yet, he still has ok weight but look at him carrot and antibiotic soaks daily, for 3 weeks along with sub Q fluids for 1 week yet he looks like he's just come out of the desert.
> View attachment 312401



what else can you try?


----------



## zovick (Dec 5, 2020)

Speedy101 said:


> Also in relation to the feeding tube, I agree but isn’t putting him under anaesthesia going to be a big risk while he’s in this state?


Well, IMHO, the anesthesia to insert a feeding tube which could ultimately save the animal's life is less of a risk to the tortoise's well-being than not placing one and trying to medicate a sick tortoise by mouth. Plus you can feed and hydrate the tortoise with that feeding tube. The way things are now, you can only hope that the tortoise will drink enough and eat enough to keep itself going and there is no good and accurate way to tell how much medication you can get into the tortoise if medicating orally.


----------



## Speedy101 (Dec 5, 2020)

zovick said:


> Well, IMHO, the anesthesia to insert a feeding tube which could ultimately save the animal's life is less of a risk to the tortoise's well-being than not placing one and trying to medicate a sick tortoise by mouth. Plus you can feed and hydrate the tortoise with that feeding tube. The way things are now, you can only hope that the tortoise will drink enough and eat enough to keep itself going and there is no good and accurate way to tell how much medication you can get into the tortoise if medicating orally.



I am not medicating him myself at the moment, the vet is with just the worming medication. He is drinking on his own but not eating.


----------



## GMDVM (Dec 5, 2020)

Speedy101 said:


> I am not medicating him myself at the moment, the vet is with just the worming medication. He is drinking on his own but not eating.


Great that he is drinking on his own!! Is he keeping the water down? If he is i might dissolve a couple of granules of Mazuri tortoise food in the water.


----------



## Speedy101 (Dec 5, 2020)

GMDVM said:


> Great that he is drinking on his own!! Is he keeping the water down? If he is i might dissolve a couple of granules of Mazuri tortoise food in the water.



He’s been drinking LOADS by himself, he’s a good drinker. He’s been urinating as well so he’s keeping it down, I will try that!


----------



## Speedy101 (Dec 5, 2020)

He seems to be urinating a lot more in the past 2 days. Could this be his kidneys working through medication? Or just extra water he has been drinking.


----------



## Roxanneizded (Dec 5, 2020)

Speedy101 said:


> He seems to be urinating a lot more in the past 2 days. Could this be his kidneys working through medication? Or just extra water he has been drinking.


Hi. Like with most creatures when it comes to water: what goes in, must come out. Told you, you got this. You will succeed. After the crisis, I hope you check for parasites at least once a year. In captivity, tortoises can reinfect themselves easily. In the wild, they can expell parasites and move on tolerating small infestations. Have a good day and know you are doing a great job.


----------



## Speedy101 (Dec 5, 2020)

Roxanneizded said:


> Hi. Like with most creatures when it comes to water: what goes in, must come out. Told you, you got this. You will succeed. After the crisis, I hope you check for parasites at least once a year. In captivity, tortoises can reinfect themselves easily. In the wild, they can expell parasites and move on tolerating small infestations. Have a good day and know you are doing a great job.


I will get him checked once a year, and thank you, you too!


----------



## zovick (Dec 5, 2020)

Speedy101 said:


> I am not medicating him myself at the moment, the vet is with just the worming medication. He is drinking on his own but not eating.


I realize that, but the animal will go downhill if it doesn't eat soon, PLUS depending upon what is determined Tuesday, you or your vet may need to give the tortoise more medications than just Panacur. If you can afford multiple vet appointments to have him medicate the tortoise as often as needed, that's up to you. 

By the way, how did your vet administer the Panacur?


----------



## Speedy101 (Dec 5, 2020)

zovick said:


> I realize that, but the animal will go downhill if it doesn't eat soon, PLUS depending upon what is determined Tuesday, you may need to give the tortoise more medications than just Panacur. By the way, how did your vet administer the Panacur?


 He adminstered it through a tube into his stomach. What do you suggest I mention to the vet ( e.g feeding tube etc)? Or should I let him come to his own conclusion? Thanks again.


----------



## Speedy101 (Dec 5, 2020)

If I lift Speedys shell for him, with two fingers each side giving him a bit of help, he can walk with all legs moving. He just doesn’t seem to have the strength to lift himself on his own


----------



## zovick (Dec 5, 2020)

Speedy101 said:


> If I lift Speedys shell for him, with two fingers each side giving him a bit of help, he can walk with all legs moving. He just doesn’t seem to have the strength to lift himself on his own


This is why I am thinking a feeding tube would be beneficial. You can get nutrition and medications into the tortoise through the tube without stressing him by forcing his mouth open and sticking a tube down his throat through the mouth or jeopardizing his health by having him accidentally inhale some of the mixture(s) going in through the mouth.


----------



## zovick (Dec 5, 2020)

Speedy101 said:


> If I lift Speedys shell for him, with two fingers each side giving him a bit of help, he can walk with all legs moving. He just doesn’t seem to have the strength to lift himself on his own


You might mention to the vet that a very well-experienced tortoise keeper (62+ years) has mentioned to you that a feeding tube placement might be beneficial and less stressful for all concerned (including the tortoise) and see what his opinion is.

You might also mention that I recommended checking for cryptosporidium and amoebiasis via swabbing the cloaca (if no fecal matter is obtainable) because the symptoms of vomiting and whitish mucousy stool suggest that one or both of those things may be at play.


----------



## Roxanneizded (Dec 5, 2020)

zovick said:


> I realize that, but the animal will go downhill if it doesn't eat soon, PLUS depending upon what is determined Tuesday, you or your vet may need to give the tortoise more medications than just Panacur. If you can afford multiple vet appointments to have him medicate the tortoise as often as needed, that's up to you.
> 
> By the way, how did your vet administer the Panacur?


He is not going to go downhill soon. I know the veterinarian will take the appropriate actions on Tuesday. He has to heal his GI tract first. The owner is using a product that has some nutritional value including some kind of simple sugar in it.


----------



## Speedy101 (Dec 5, 2020)

zovick said:


> You might mention to the vet that a very well-experienced tortoise keeper (62+ years) has mentioned to you that a feeding tube placement might be beneficial and less stressful for all concerned (including the tortoise).


Okay I will thanks.Like I said last time he managed to scrape a bit of dried poo from Speedys cloaca and could see worm eggs in it. How will a cloacal swab properly identify the parasite if I have no stool sample? Thank you.


----------



## zovick (Dec 5, 2020)

Speedy101 said:


> Okay I will thanks. Should I ask for another cloacal swab too? Like I said last he managed to scrape a bit of dried poo from Speedys cloaca and could see worm eggs in it. How will a cloacal swab properly identify the parasite if I have no stool sample? Thank you.


The signs of parasites don't necessarily have to be in an actual stool. There may be residual worm eggs, amoebae, and oocysts from cryptosporidium clinging to the walls of the cloaca. If these can be found via a swabbing and identified microscopically, the proper treatment(s) can be initiated.


----------



## Roxanneizded (Dec 5, 2020)

Speedy101 said:


> He adminstered it through a tube into his stomach. What do you suggest I mention to the vet ( e.g feeding tube etc)? Or should I let him come to his own conclusion? Thanks again.


Just listen to the expert (the veterinarian). Feeding tubes get dislodged easily and the tortoise could aspirate with a feeding tube at home. Try to write down all your questions for the vet before you go. That way you don't forget anything. Everything will be ok.


----------



## Speedy101 (Dec 5, 2020)

zovick said:


> The signs of parasites don't necessarily have to be in an actual stool. There may be residual worm eggs, amoebae, and oocysts from cryptosporidium clinging to the walls of the cloaca. If these can be found via a swabbing and identified microscopically, the proper treatment(s) can be initiated.


That makes sense. Is amoebae a type of Protozoa?


----------



## zovick (Dec 5, 2020)

Roxanneizded said:


> He is not going to go downhill soon. I know the veterinarian will take the appropriate actions on Tuesday. He has to heal his GI tract first. The owner is using a product that has some nutritional value including some kind of simple sugar in it.


I know you are trying to be upbeat, but this tortoise cannot even walk and is not eating. He is already going down the hill.


----------



## Speedy101 (Dec 5, 2020)

Roxanneizded said:


> Just listen to the expert (the veterinarian). Feeding tubes get dislodged easily and the tortoise could aspirate with a feeding tube at home. Try to write down all your questions for the vet before you go. That way you don't forget anything. Everything will be ok.


Thank you I will, worst part is I can’t go into the treatment room with speedy because of COVID so I have the nervous wait outside!


----------



## zovick (Dec 5, 2020)

Speedy101 said:


> That makes sense. Is amoebae a type of Protozoa?


Yes.


----------



## zovick (Dec 5, 2020)

Roxanneizded said:


> Just listen to the expert (the veterinarian). Feeding tubes get dislodged easily and the tortoise could aspirate with a feeding tube at home. Try to write down all your questions for the vet before you go. That way you don't forget anything. Everything will be ok.


I hate to disagree with you, but a properly placed feeding tube will NOT be displaced easily, nor will the tortoise aspirate what is given to it through the tube if it is done in the proper quantities.

You do know that we are talking about a tube placed into the stomach via a small incision in the neck area, correct?


----------



## Roxanneizded (Dec 5, 2020)

zovick said:


> I know you are trying to be upbeat, but this tortoise cannot even walk and is not eating. He is already going down the hill.


Im not trying to be upbeat. This tortoise is well hydrated and alert. That's half the battle right there. And the opinion of the vet is more important than the alarmist opinions of other owners. Have a great day.


----------



## Roxanneizded (Dec 5, 2020)

zovick said:


> I hate to disagree with you, but a properly placed feeding tube will NOT be displaced easily, nor will the tortoise aspirate what is given to it through the tube if it is done in the proper quantities.
> 
> You do know that we are talking about a tube placed into the stomach via a small incision in the neck area, correct?


Correct. And they can dislodge easily. I quit; you win.


----------



## Speedy101 (Dec 6, 2020)

Speedy has just release a lot of urates, never seen so much! As I am writing this even more has come out. A big blob of it. Has he been holding this in? This is not a normal amount for him.


----------



## Speedy101 (Dec 6, 2020)

Speedy101 said:


> Speedy has just release a lot of urates, never seen so much! As I am writing this even more has come out. A big blob of it. Has he been holding this in? This is not a normal amount for him.


 As a side note, I have not seen him pass urates since he became unwell which was nearly 2 weeks ago.


----------



## Speedy101 (Dec 6, 2020)

Fantastic news! Speedy has begun to eat today after expelling the urates. He is eating lettuce at the moment! Will try him with some more nutritious foods later but I’m just so happy he is eating something!!!!! This has given me hope!


----------



## Mrs.Jennifer (Dec 6, 2020)

Speedy101 said:


> Fantastic news! Speedy has begun to eat today after expelling the urates. He is eating lettuce at the moment! Will try him with some more nutritious foods later but I’m just so happy he is eating something!!!!! This has given me hope!


That's AWESOME!!!!!


----------



## Maggie3fan (Dec 6, 2020)

Speedy101 said:


> Fantastic news! Speedy has begun to eat today after expelling the urates. He is eating lettuce at the moment! Will try him with some more nutritious foods later but I’m just so happy he is eating something!!!!! This has given me hope!


wow Good!!! But do NOT stop the carrot soaks just yet.


----------



## Speedy101 (Dec 6, 2020)

maggie3fan said:


> wow Good!!! But do NOT stop the carrot soaks just yet.



I won’t! I think the soaks are what got him going again!


----------



## Speedy101 (Dec 6, 2020)

Mrs.Jennifer said:


> That's AWESOME!!!!!



I know! Some good news at least


----------



## Maggie3fan (Dec 6, 2020)

Speedy101 said:


> I won’t! I think the soaks are what got him going again!


And this is why we do those soaks. Could be simply the hydration, but I believe in carrot soaks, truly


----------



## Speedy101 (Dec 6, 2020)

maggie3fan said:


> And this is why we do those soaks. Could be simply the hydration, but I believe in carrot soaks, truly



I’m hoping he doesn’t stop eating again through second dose of worming but even if he does least he’s had something in between!


----------



## Jodipg82 (Dec 6, 2020)

Speedy101 said:


> Speedy has just release a lot of urates, never seen so much! As I am writing this even more has come out. A big blob of it. Has he been holding this in? This is not a normal amount for him.


He HAS to feel at least a little better after expelling all if that...


----------



## Speedy101 (Dec 6, 2020)

Jodipg82 said:


> He HAS to feel at least a little better after expelling all if that...


 Apparently so! Never been so happy to see his little mouth open to take a bite


----------



## Speedy101 (Dec 6, 2020)

??bless him


----------



## zovick (Dec 6, 2020)

Speedy101 said:


> Apparently so! Never been so happy to see his little mouth open to take a bite


This is very good news! I am glad to see that your tortoise has turned the corner. I would say that all the soaks you did were very helpful in achieving this and recommend continuing them to keep the tortoise well-hydrated. Hopefully he will keep eating on his own now and the feeding tube we discussed previously will not be needed.


----------



## Speedy101 (Dec 6, 2020)

zovick said:


> This is very good news! I am glad to see that your tortoise has turned the corner. I would say that all the soaks you did were very helpful in achieving this and recommend continuing them to keep the tortoise well-hydrated. Hopefully he will keep eating on his own now and the feeding tube we discussed previously will not be needed.



Hopefully! I hope the 2nd dose of worming medication doesn’t throw him off again. I’ll definitely still ask for a cloacal swab so we know what’s going on inside him but maybe the panacur is doing it’s job?


----------



## GMDVM (Dec 6, 2020)

Very happy to hear this news!!


----------



## Speedy101 (Dec 6, 2020)

GMDVM said:


> Very happy to hear this news!!


 Thank you!


----------



## zovick (Dec 6, 2020)

Speedy101 said:


> Hopefully! I hope the 2nd dose of worming medication doesn’t throw him off again. I’ll definitely still ask for a cloacal swab so we know what’s going on inside him but maybe the panacur is doing it’s job?


Yes, I am sure the Panacur is helping. Do remember that two (and sometimes even three) treatments are needed for the drug to be fully effective. I know you have a second round set for Tuesday. Just follow the recommendations of your vet after he tries looking for any other parasites.


----------



## Speedy101 (Dec 6, 2020)

zovick said:


> Yes, I am sure the Panacur is helping. Do remember that two (and sometimes even three) treatments are needed for the drug to be fully effective. I know you have a second round set for Tuesday. Just follow the recommendations of your vet after he tries looking for any other parasites.


Okay thank you for all your help


----------



## vladimir (Dec 6, 2020)

Awesome news! 

We're rooting for you Speedy ?


----------



## Speedy101 (Dec 6, 2020)

vladimir said:


> Awesome news!
> 
> We're rooting for you Speedy ?



Thank you! He’s a strong little tortoise


----------



## turtlemom5 (Dec 6, 2020)

Be sure Speedy is hydrated. Our Sulcata quit walking one day and after a long soak she regained use of her legs. So sorry to hear about Speedy.


----------



## Speedy101 (Dec 6, 2020)

turtlemom5 said:


> Be sure Speedy is hydrated. Our Sulcata quit walking one day and after a long soak she regained use of her legs. So sorry to hear about Speedy.


I’ve been soaking him lots, he took his first bite of food again today so hopefully things are looking up


----------



## MenagerieGrl (Dec 6, 2020)

Speedy101 said:


> Also in relation to the feeding tube, I agree but isn’t putting him under anaesthesia going to be a big risk while he’s in this state?


I agree, while a "feeding tube" installed in his neck would be optimal, as with humans & the many pets that I have had to have put "under", it is not to be taken lightly. Complications can arise under the most benign situ. I creates a lost of stress in the weaken creature. I'm sure your vet knows what they are doing, But don't overdo the worming, as with heart worms & intestinal worms in dogs...if its a severe case the expulsion of the parasites can be worsened upon the parasites death and removal from the body. Smaller doses over a longer time frame might be optimal. Also when I had taken my Eastern Hermann's Gigantor in for weight loss and lack of eating, he was also dehydrated. They put off taking blood for a dew appt's. they were tube feeding and giving him Subq to rehydrate him before taking blooo(From my experience)


Speedy101 said:


> Thank you I will, worst part is I can’t go into the treatment room with speedy because of COVID so I have the nervous wait outside!


I know....it SUCKS not being with your pet when they are with the Vet...


----------



## Speedy101 (Dec 6, 2020)

MenagerieGrl said:


> I agree, while a "feeding tube" installed in his neck would be optimal, as with humans & the many pets that I have had to have put "under", it is not to be taken lightly. Complications can arise under the most benign situ. I creates a lost of stress in the weaken creature. I'm sure your vet knows what they are doing, But don't overdo the worming, as with heart worms & intestinal worms in dogs...if its a severe case the expulsion of the parasites can be worsened upon the parasites death and removal from the body. Smaller doses over a longer time frame might be optimal. Also when I had taken my Eastern Hermann's Gigantor in for weight loss and lack of eating, he was also dehydrated. They put off taking blood for a dew appt's. they were tube feeding and giving him Subq to rehydrate him before taking blooo(From my experience)
> 
> I know....it SUCKS not being with your pet when they are with the Vet...


Thank you for your input. Hopefully I will not have to worry about a feeding tube as he did eat a little bit today for the first time in 2 weeks. He is to go for his second and final worming dose on Tuesday. Thanks again


----------



## JMM (Dec 6, 2020)

Speedy101 said:


> Hopefully! I hope the 2nd dose of worming medication doesn’t throw him off again. I’ll definitely still ask for a cloacal swab so we know what’s going on inside him but maybe the panacur is doing it’s job?


Typically, multiple doses of panacur (fenbendazole) are administered, however, they need to be given successively (daily) as it works in part by starving the parasites. In this case, a lot of time has passed. So, you probably should have the vet first check a fresh stool sample to see if your tort still even has parasites. Given that all of these issues apparently began with deworming, I'd be very leery of doing so again. I'd let the tortoise recover and gain it's strength and see whether it still has parasites and if so, how many. I would only consider deworming if there are parasites and if they seem to be causing illness.


----------



## Speedy101 (Dec 6, 2020)

JMM said:


> Typically, multiple doses of panacur (fenbendazole) are administered, however, they need to be given successively (daily) as it works in part by starving the parasites. In this case, a lot of time has passed. So, you probably should have the vet first check a fresh stool sample to see if your tort still even has parasites. Given that all of these issues apparently began with deworming, I'd be very leery of doing so again. I'd let the tortoise recover and gain it's strength and see whether it still has parasites and if so, how many. I would only consider deworming if there are parasites and if they seem to be causing illness.



His illness did not start with the deworming medication. He was vomiting a lot therefore I rushed him straight to the vet and the vet saw worm eggs in a small sample and considering the symptoms, we decided to deworm him. As X-ray showed no blockage we concluded deworming him might be our best bet. He was already suddenly very ill before the medication. He had his first worming two weeks ago from this Tuesday coming, vet said to come back within 2 weeks which is Tuesday 8th for his second and final dose to break the life cycle of the parasites.


----------



## JMM (Dec 6, 2020)

Thanks for clarifying. Good luck! I'm glad he's doing better.


----------



## Speedy101 (Dec 6, 2020)

JMM said:


> Thanks for clarifying. Good luck! I'm glad he's doing better.


 Thank you very much!


----------



## Speedy101 (Dec 6, 2020)

Speedy was trying to walk to get to his food! He was unsuccessful picking himself up, his legs were a little shaky but he sure did try.I’ll take it day by day I’m sure he’ll regain his strength. It will just take time and encouragement. At least he is more inclined to try


----------



## Maggie3fan (Dec 6, 2020)

zovick said:


> Yes, I am sure the Panacur is helping. Do remember that two (and sometimes even three) treatments are needed for the drug to be fully effective. I know you have a second round set for Tuesday. Just follow the recommendations of your vet after he tries looking for any other parasites.


I operated a small special needs turtle and tortoise rescue for a number of years, and I had a fairly good flow of chelonia, and an extremely high Vet bill. Rarely did any of the animals I saw have a parasite load, but I do remember a blind Sulcata yearling I had named Tony Stewart my exotic Vet treated for parasites by putting a quantity of Panacur in Tony's cloaca, one two then 3 times, all in the cloaca. So he never stopped eating that I remember, but nobody I tell that to has ever heard of that. I never did again


----------



## zovick (Dec 6, 2020)

maggie3fan said:


> I operated a small special needs turtle and tortoise rescue for a number of years, and I had a fairly good flow of chelonia, and an extremely high Vet bill. Rarely did any of the animals I saw have a parasite load, but I do remember a blind Sulcata yearling I had named Tony Stewart my exotic Vet treated for parasites by putting a quantity of Panacur in Tony's cloaca, one two then 3 times, all in the cloaca. So he never stopped eating that I remember, but nobody I tell that to has ever heard of that. I never did again


That is a method of which I have never heard, either, in 60+ years of keeping tortoises and numerous visits to several very well-known exotic vets plus vets from major zoos such as the Bronx Zoo, San Diego Zoo, Honolulu Zoo, etc.. I guess the vet in question was hoping that the medication would be absorbed through the cloacal lining. Personally, I think that giving it orally would be much more effective, and I guess almost all other people do as well since this is the first time I have ever heard of this method of administering a worming medication.


----------



## mylittlecholla (Dec 6, 2020)

KarenSoCal said:


> I'm so sorry that Speedy is sick. I don't have any help to offer, but know that I'm praying for him.
> 
> Maybe @zovick or
> @GMDVM can help.


*I'm praying too. So mysterious and scary*.☹


----------



## Speedy101 (Dec 7, 2020)

mylittlecholla said:


> *I'm praying too. So mysterious and scary*.☹


Thank you !


----------



## Speedy101 (Dec 7, 2020)

Speedy has ate quite a decent amount again today. He is only interested in lettuce at the moment but I bought some more nutritious variants of it ( bags of mixed leaves, butterhead lettuce) so he has at least some variety.


----------



## TammyJ (Dec 7, 2020)

I wish him a "SPEEDY" recovery!


----------



## Speedy101 (Dec 7, 2020)

TammyJ said:


> I wish him a "SPEEDY" recovery!


 Hahaha good one! Thanks


----------



## MenagerieGrl (Dec 7, 2020)

Eating is good....and with eating comes POOPING, one fecal sample coming right up....
Remember....Poop happens!


----------



## Speedy101 (Dec 7, 2020)

MenagerieGrl said:


> Eating is good....and with eating comes POOPING, one fecal sample coming right up....
> Remember....Poop happens!


 
I know hopefully sooner than later! ?


----------



## Speedy101 (Dec 7, 2020)

Does anyone have any suggestions as to when I can put substrate back down? As I said he’s on puppy pads at the moment so I can disinfect easily ( also so I can easily spot any poo if he decides to grace us with one). His second of worming is tomorrow, how long shall I wait after this? I think having substrate back will help him walk again. He’s trying so hard but he’s just unsteady and then sleeps soon after. I think a bit of traction from the substrate would help him. Rather than the flat, unforgiving floor of his home. Something softer may be easier for him. He is much more alert today, just gets tired quickly.


----------



## KarenSoCal (Dec 7, 2020)

Now might be a good time to offer other greens, cut up very small, and in small amounts. Mix the cut up stuff into his lettuce and dampen the meal so it sticks to the lettuce. This will remind him of the taste of other better greens. If there is a food you want him to eat, but he wouldn't before he got sick, use this same method. Just a tiny amount at first, even if he only gets one bite with the newer food on it.

I don't know on the substrate. But if I was doing it, I would probably wait for a week after the last Panacur dose. You don't want to take a chance on reinfection. Does he usually poop in his soak? If you could catch it that way you probably could change the substrate any time.


----------



## Speedy101 (Dec 7, 2020)

KarenSoCal said:


> Now might be a good time to offer other greens, cut up very small, and in small amounts. Mix the cut up stuff into his lettuce and dampen the meal so it sticks to the lettuce. This will remind him of the taste of other better greens. If there is a food you want him to eat, but he wouldn't before he got sick, use this same method. Just a tiny amount at first, even if he only gets one bite with the newer food on it.
> 
> I don't know on the substrate. But if I was doing it, I would probably wait for a week after the last Panacur dose. You don't want to take a chance on reinfection. Does he usually poop in his soak? If you could catch it that way you probably could change the substrate any time.



No he doesn’t usually do it in his soak, just passes urates. I will pick some weeds tomorrow for him and may add a few of his tortoise pellets to mix in. I’m praying he doesn’t lose his appetite again tomorrow after his last dose. Thanks for your advice


----------



## GMDVM (Dec 7, 2020)

Speedy is very lucky to have you for his owner! You’ve taken such great care of him.


----------



## MenagerieGrl (Dec 7, 2020)

GMDVM said:


> Speedy is very lucky to have you for his owner! You’ve taken such great care of him.


I second, that!


----------



## Speedy101 (Dec 8, 2020)

GMDVM said:


> Speedy is very lucky to have you for his owner! You’ve taken such great care of him.


Thank you very much!


----------



## Speedy101 (Dec 8, 2020)

I bring news from Speedys vet visit! The vet was very pleased that he had started passing urates and eating. He said it was a massive step in the right direction. I asked about the lack of mobility and he seems to think speedy is just weakened because of the whole ordeal and could not find any other cause . However, he did say speedy put up more of a fight this time round when trying to feel his cloaca and also when administering the worming medication which seems good. Speeds is not very happy with me because of this visit and hopefully he does not lose all the progress he’s made and continues to eat. Oh and apparently the culprit was pinworms!


----------



## zovick (Dec 8, 2020)

Speedy101 said:


> I bring news from Speedys vet visit! The vet was very pleased that he had started passing urates and eating. He said it was a massive step in the right direction. I asked about the lack of mobility and he seems to think speedy is just weakened because of the whole ordeal and could not find any other cause . However, he did say speedy put up more of a fight this time round when trying to feel his cloaca and also when administering the worming medication which seems good. Speeds is not very happy with me because of this visit and hopefully he does not lose all the progress he’s made and continues to eat. Oh and apparently the culprit was pinworms!


Good news! I wish you continued good luck with Speedy's recovery.


----------



## Speedy101 (Dec 8, 2020)

zovick said:


> Good news! I wish you continued good luck with Speedy's recovery.


Thank you very much and for all your help and advice


----------



## Maggie3fan (Dec 8, 2020)

zovick said:


> Good news! I wish you continued good luck with Speedy's recovery.


And I second that! I am so glad Speedy is turning around. It's a big relief isn't it? When I have something happen to one of the turtles or tortoises here like this evidently I carry around some anxiety over it, so that when the animal turns the corner there there is such a feeling of physical relief. I had 3 box turtles sick, two of them are eating and starting to act normal, the 3rd one, a deformed female 3-toed has swollen shut eyes that will only open in the soaking water. Only one opens but the next time I look at her both eyes are closed again.


----------



## Speedy101 (Dec 8, 2020)

maggie3fan said:


> And I second that! I am so glad Speedy is turning around. It's a big relief isn't it? When I have something happen to one of the turtles or tortoises here like this evidently I carry around some anxiety over it, so that when the animal turns the corner there there is such a feeling of physical relief. I had 3 box turtles sick, two of them are eating and starting to act normal, the 3rd one, a deformed female 3-toed has swollen shut eyes that will only open in the soaking water. Only one opens but the next time I look at her both eyes are closed again.


Im definitely relieved! I really hope your box turtle starts to get better soon


----------



## Mrs.Jennifer (Dec 8, 2020)

Speedy101 said:


> I bring news from Speedys vet visit! The vet was very pleased that he had started passing urates and eating. He said it was a massive step in the right direction. I asked about the lack of mobility and he seems to think speedy is just weakened because of the whole ordeal and could not find any other cause . However, he did say speedy put up more of a fight this time round when trying to feel his cloaca and also when administering the worming medication which seems good. Speeds is not very happy with me because of this visit and hopefully he does not lose all the progress he’s made and continues to eat. Oh and apparently the culprit was pinworms!


What a great job you’ve done to get Speedy on a road to good health! He’s very fortunate to have you.


----------



## Speedy101 (Dec 8, 2020)

Mrs.Jennifer said:


> What a great job you’ve done to get Speedy on a road to good health! He’s very fortunate to have you.


Thank you, this means a lot ?


----------



## KarenSoCal (Dec 8, 2020)

Such marvelous news! I'm very happy for you and Speedy!


----------



## Speedy101 (Dec 8, 2020)

KarenSoCal said:


> Such marvelous news! I'm very happy for you and Speedy!


 Thank you very much ! He lifted his shell up not long ago in his soak and managed to turn himself. He’s a little wobbly but it’s progress ?


----------



## Chefdenoel10 (Dec 8, 2020)

Speedy101 said:


> Thank you very much ! He lifted his shell up not long ago in his soak and managed to turn himself. He’s a little wobbly but it’s progress ?



one slow step at a time..
Don’t forget .... he IS a tortoise after all..?
Happy days are on the way!!!
Goooooo speedy!!!!!!
Congrats!!!!
I’ll keep praying! ???


----------



## Herman_WA (Dec 8, 2020)

Speedy101 said:


> Thank you very much ! He lifted his shell up not long ago in his soak and managed to turn himself. He’s a little wobbly but it’s progress ?


I have been reading about little speedys illness and am so happy he is getting better!
I will also keep him im my prayers! 

Speedy! Speedy! Speedy! We're all routing for ya!


----------



## Speedy101 (Dec 9, 2020)

Chefdenoel10 said:


> one slow step at a time..
> Don’t forget .... he IS a tortoise after all..?
> Happy days are on the way!!!
> Goooooo speedy!!!!!!
> ...


Thank you! ??


----------



## Speedy101 (Dec 9, 2020)

Herman_WA said:


> I have been reading about little speedys illness and am so happy he is getting better!
> I will also keep him im my prayers!
> 
> Speedy! Speedy! Speedy! We're all routing for ya!


Thank you!!! ?


----------



## Roxanneizded (Dec 9, 2020)

Told you so. Great job.


----------



## Speedy101 (Dec 9, 2020)

Roxanneizded said:


> Told you so. Great job.


You did  thank you !


----------



## TammyJ (Dec 10, 2020)

Pinworms? How bad can that be to cause all that suffering!!!
So glad he is making good progress.


----------



## Speedy101 (Dec 10, 2020)

TammyJ said:


> Pinworms? How bad can that be to cause all that suffering!!!
> So glad he is making good progress.


I have no idea. Although he has never been checked so I have nothing to go off. I never saw the need to as he was always healthy, eating and had normal poo but have now learned my lesson and will get him checked at least once a year. He has lost his appetite again because of second round of worming like I feared, still looks a lot better though! He should eat again in no time


----------



## Speedy101 (Dec 11, 2020)

Little update for you all. Speedy has begun to eat again after second round of worming so hopefully this is it now, well on the way to recovery. He’s legs look stronger, still not walking but he can rest on them now and slightly lift his shell. Still only eating lettuce however I’ve sneaked some of his pellets onto the mixture so he might take a bite or two. Thank you again to everyone who replied you were all a fantastic help ??


----------



## Mrs.Jennifer (Dec 11, 2020)

Speedy101 said:


> Little update for you all. Speedy has begun to eat again after second round of worming so hopefully this is it now, well on the way to recovery. He’s legs look stronger, still not walking but he can rest on them now and slightly lift his shell. Still only eating lettuce however I’ve sneaked some of his pellets onto the mixture so he might take a bite or two. Thank you again to everyone who replied you were all a fantastic help ??


So glad to hear another positive report! you have been so faithful to your little Speedy.?


----------



## Liltortivert (Dec 11, 2020)

Speedy101 said:


> Little update for you all. Speedy has begun to eat again after second round of worming so hopefully this is it now, well on the way to recovery. He’s legs look stronger, still not walking but he can rest on them now and slightly lift his shell. Still only eating lettuce however I’ve sneaked some of his pellets onto the mixture so he might take a bite or two. Thank you again to everyone who replied you were all a fantastic help ??


I've been keeping an eye on this thread and its great to see speedy is making a comeback! Wishing you continued success!


----------



## vladimir (Dec 11, 2020)

Go Speedy! ❤


----------



## Herman_WA (Dec 11, 2020)

Speedy101 said:


> Little update for you all. Speedy has begun to eat again after second round of worming so hopefully this is it now, well on the way to recovery. He’s legs look stronger, still not walking but he can rest on them now and slightly lift his shell. Still only eating lettuce however I’ve sneaked some of his pellets onto the mixture so he might take a bite or two. Thank you again to everyone who replied you were all a fantastic help ??


Well done! You have taken such good care of speedy! I hope he still continues to get better!


----------



## Speedy101 (Dec 11, 2020)

Herman_WA said:


> Well done! You have taken such good care of speedy! I hope he still continues to get better!


Thank you!


----------



## KarenSoCal (Dec 12, 2020)

??? Happy Dance!!!


----------

