# Vivarium lifestyle



## adam0745 (Aug 2, 2011)

I am a very dedicated and attentive animal lover. I have been taking courses to major in herp studies. My problem is I have the lifestyle of a student and am looking for a tort companion. So I am trying to figure out the smallest and hardiest tort available to me that would be best adapted to living a vavarium lifestyle, having free range of my apartment as well as a small section in the corner of my place that will be devoted entirely too heating food and habitat for him. Recap - Hardy/small/vivarium/ tort (daily hourly trips outside will be a regular thing for him of course.)



Vivarium lifestyle is a debatable subject matter is it not? And what do you all think the best species would be for this lifestyle?


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## Yvonne G (Aug 2, 2011)

Hi adam0745:

Welcome to the Tortoise Forum!!

May we know your name and where you are?

I have strong opinions about allowing a tortoise to be outside his habitat. I believe they should not be allowed free roaming in the house due to being too cold on the floor, the ability to eat dust bunnies, small bits of plastic, rubber bands, etc and, in my opinion, they are much happier, safer and mentally adjusted when the know their boundaries and are safely in their habitat.


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## Tom (Aug 2, 2011)

Hello and welcome. I think a Russian, Hermanni, or Greek would fit your bill just right.

I agree with Yvonne. Tortoises free roaming in a house is a recipe for disaster. They will be much happier AND safer in their indoor or outdoor enclosure that are built just for them.


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## adam0745 (Aug 3, 2011)

Name is Tony and I live in Virginia, I was leaning towards a russian. So despite a well circulated apartment, where the floor is always kept debris free and cleaned daily, with and good heat control I should restrict him to his habitat?


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## Missy82 (Aug 3, 2011)

I would restrict him. Even if you keep the floor clean if there is a route of escape a tortoise will find it especially a russian they are masters of escape and they love to dig!


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## Tom (Aug 3, 2011)

One of the things I've learned over the years of working with all sorts of animals is that you must go way out of your way to protect them from themselves.

No matter how clean you try to keep your floors, somebody, someday, is going to drop something and Murphy's law dictates that your tortoise will find it. It would take a huge, impractical, expensive effort to make sure that ALL the floorspace in your entire house had the right temps. And as Missy82 pointed out escape is a real possibility. Right now you are thinking hard about it, but after six months of a loose tortoise in your house, you WILL get complacent, unless you are not human. A door might get left open while furniture is being moved in or out, etc... And don't forget about the possibility of them being stepped on, kicked, or having something fall or be dropped on them...

Keeping them in their own purpose built environment eliminates all of these risks and lessens the potential for human (or tortoise) error.


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## adam0745 (Aug 3, 2011)

I would like to point out that building an environment which is suitable for a tortises' needs is never affordable/fool proof/ or entirely perfect. And just as any other house hold pet they are pron towards exploring or wandering off/ finding places they shouldnt go. 

If we really want to anylze this on a deeper level, a level that I feel iIa am now being compelled towards by recent subject matter presented... then I will also say that It is a studio apartment fully heated and cooled above a shop which is heated an cooled efficiently as well. Temperature is not of the largest of my concerns as far as things go. 

However I am interested in the discussion on what things torts are inclined towards eating on the floor. ( Family has a dog the dog quite often eats toilet tissue from the garbage maybe an old piece of bread) has anyone ever experinced a situation in which a tortise has eaten a loose piece of change laying on the floor? All animals are inquisitive to a certain degree.

I am aware of the "houdini syndrome" in which torts are quite often diagnosed with. My place does not have any crevises or holes in the wall in which he can disapear to. In fact the apartment I keep is very simply furnished. No hidden areas to stuff things so its has to be kept clean. A table a book shelf and a chair and high rise bed with no skirt. 

Transitions between and behind all major appliances are non accesible. 

the best way I can describe it as, is "one big, awesomely climate controlled room with lots of sun and little furniture" practically a huge tank. 

Anybody else in this forum done this or is currently alive with this lifestyle? 

Thank you for all replys on this topic you guys are helping tremendously.


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## jeffbens0n (Aug 3, 2011)

It's not just the heat and issue of debris on the floor...it's also about them having a secure habitat they are comfortable in. A tortoise wandering all over your apartment floor may seem curious, when he is in fact scared for his life trying to find a place to hide.


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## adam0745 (Aug 3, 2011)

scared of me? That would be absolutley absurd.


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## jackrat (Aug 3, 2011)

I have an indoor room for my redfoots to winter in,but it is a purpose built enclosure. It is upstairs,out of the foot traffic of daily home activities. PVC floor with cypress mulch. Temperature and humidity controlled. Basically like a room size vivarium. As far as letting one run loose in the house,I wouldn't do it. Asking for trouble,in my humble opinion. I don't think jeffbenson was saying it would be scared of you,rather,scared of the environment.


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## Madkins007 (Aug 3, 2011)

Scared of you? Why wouldn't they be? You are huge and something they have no instincts on. You also pick them up occsaionally which is hard-wired into them as being something dangerous.


As far as free-roaming, I am going to buck the trend a little. There are risks, but I think you can manage them in a smaller space- a studio, large room, etc. My biggest concerns are...
- Proper environment- heat, light, humidity
- Sanitation, dealing with the feces and urine
- Good hides- not just a dark box, someplace it can snuggle in, like a box with some toweling in it
- Good traction. Tortoises raised on too-slick of a surface can develop splay legs and bad joints
- A certain something... there is something that bothers me about a tortoise almost always on a hard surface- nothing to climb, nothing to dig into, no variety of environment, etc. Does this matter? I -feel- that it does, but do not know it.

You can manage all of these issues with some thought, and you already know about issues like things they might eat, etc.


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## adam0745 (Aug 5, 2011)

wow thankyou, this was very helpful. I appreciate you for taking the time to point out something I wasnt thinking about.. the slick surface and the joint issues. Thank you again.

I would also like to say that those cherries are lucky to have you.


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## Neal (Aug 9, 2011)

Well, I think some of the same threats (if not others) as mentioned by other people in letting your tortoise have free run of your apartment might even exist in a pen specifically designed for the tortoise. If you feel comfortable with than go for it...as Madskins suggested, there are ways to manage the tortoises needs in that situation. Personally I would be more worried about the thing defecating and urinating all over my apartment. I've never heard of a potty trained tortoise...I suppose anything is possible...but you're going to be cleaning up a lot of messes otherwise.


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## Tortoise (Aug 9, 2011)

I wanted to add a funny situation , although I wouldn't do this personally. I agree with the idea of not roaming in the house although a supervised roaming outdoors for their interest is great fun-I love doing that with my Red Foots.

Anyways the story is a friend of mine in the UK rescues all sorts of tortoises and one is a Sulcata. He roams the garden at will, has his own green house-reinforced due to him walking through it a few times.My friend is alone aside from her huge tort family and sits watching TV sometimes.The sulcata comes into the house through the porch(she leaves the doors open) and comes and lays in front of her fire and sleeps! 
He does however leave his very sizable deposits-this lady has a huge amount of patience so doesn't mind the intrusion but I know I couldn't do that.
I often think of the tortoise just coming and going whenever he chooses. He is huge so the only way she can persuade him to go somewhere is by offering him a whole banana and leading him around-he gets to eat it of course!


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## mytwotortys (Dec 26, 2011)

My horsefields live in a vivarium with wood chippings to dig in, and they're fine with running round in our front room whilst me mam and dad watch them like hawks, they actually prove to be really interesting cos they're such inquisitive animals by nature, and when they get cold we just put them back in the vivarium! They're 100 percent healthy I've had them for a year  































Lol some pics of the vivvy and some pics of my torts


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## bubbles01 (Dec 26, 2011)

Hi

I'm a buck the trend person, but I kinda meet halfway. I live in Greece, and my 7 Hermanns have a huge 150 sqm garden to roam about in. It a walled garden so they cant escape, they have as much freedom as they want and they dig around in the veggie patches. (I've pretty much given up on growing anything for us to eat now as they usually get in there first!) BUT they also have access to the house, as the back door opens directly onto the garden and they will come inside, wander around, go inside the upside down boxes we keep in the kitchen as tortoise hides and then go back out again when the door is open. Yep, we have occasional messes... but they are occasional.

I know a lot of people on here prefer the method of an enclosure, and I'm well aware that as I'm lucky enough to live in a country which is a Hermanns natural habitat I don't have to worry so much about the issues of warmth and humidity etc. I try to keep them in an as close to natural environment as possible, and when they come inside it is usually because they have wandered in from noseyness rather than because we brought them in. 

All of our tortioses are pets, so the kids do play with them, help me soak them, get involved with the feeding etc and I like to think they enjoy being with us as part of the family inside and outside the house. Naive? Perhaps... Obsessed? Definitely..!

Helen x


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## ripper7777777 (Dec 27, 2011)

Well this subject seems well covered, if you wanna do it, than do it, it's your pet after all.

The slip issue would be a problem, but can be overcome, and I don't mean booties....LOL

If you get a hatchling or young tort it will spend most of it's time in the terrarium anyways.

As far as which species, I'd pick one that fits your environment and needs or wants.

My Baby Hermanns tend to like to be left alone and like to have a nice secure enclosure with plenty of substrate to bury in, they would hate roaming around the house. One of my Hermanns is a bit more outgoing than the other but nothing compared to my other torts. In their Terrarium they are the most active ones I have though, constantly redecorating, they have learned quickly they are well protected behind the glass.

Peanut my sulcata loves to get out, inside, outside, anywhere, she hasn't told me so, but she seems to enjoy it, she never looks for a hiding spot, she never hides in her shell and spends the entire time roaming and exploring. I don't let her loose in the house she is still tiny and would be lost easily, plus I don't care for hidden turtle poo or pee behind furniture and I don't care to clean up all the kids barbie toys, so I bring in a kiddie pool in on cold days.


My 2 Redfoots (about 4"s) are very new but seem to not mind seeing people or being touched, Scarlet will let you pet her head and likes to roam around outside and will get to a spot and watch the kids play right out in the open.


Of course as they grow personalities will change courage will grow, I have seen some REALLY outgoing Hermanns acting like a typical family pet.


So again do what you want, get a tort that fits well in your environment and than plan to acclimate them to your lifestyle, I know most consider Torts nothing but wild animals, but I have seen plenty as family pets that interact as pets, but they all still need the proper care and home.


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