# Outside enclosure



## Blakem (Feb 16, 2013)

I just started on my outside Enclosure for my Russian and sulcata. I already had an 8x5 area built for my Russian but my parents are allowing me to use the whole 23 foot, in length, area for my sulcata. So, I'm extending both enclosures. I am nowhere being done. 
At the end if the area, where my Russian was located, my dad One end for my sulcata, and the other for my Russian. I plan on building an insulated heated box for my 11 month sulcata, dexter. My Russian, ezek, will only be outside during the day. It is currently a mess but will e fantastic when it is done! Suggestions in what to do with it will be gladly accepted. and I will build




Blake m said:


> I just started on my outside Enclosure for my Russian and sulcata. I already had an 8x5 area built for my Russian but my parents are allowing me to use the whole 23 foot, in length, area for my sulcata. So, I'm extending both enclosures. I am nowhere being done.
> At the end if the area, where my Russian was located, my dad One end for my sulcata, and the other for my Russian. I plan on building an insulated heated box for my 11 month sulcata, dexter. My Russian, ezek, will only be outside during the day. It is currently a mess but will e fantastic when it is done! Suggestions in what to do with it will be gladly accepted. and I will build



Here is the area, sorry it is so dark.


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## ascott (Feb 16, 2013)

I would just make sure that you have it secure from aerial attacks and dig unders....the length is great--as we know torts really enjoy moving around walking and exploring...while I can not see very well in the pic....but I sure would like to see what you end up with (maybe a touch lighter pic )....


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## luvpetz27 (Feb 16, 2013)

It looks nice from what I
can see! .....a lot of room!


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## Blakem (Feb 16, 2013)

it
It's a mess but it'll be cleaned up soon.


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## Greg Knoell (Feb 16, 2013)

You can work with that area and it will become a excellent pen. Russians are very adaptable outdoors, so are sulcatas. However you have the two most prolific tunnelers of the tortoises species that I know of. I've seen Russians on more than one occasion burrow down, under, then out of tortoise pen walls. They will do it without your knowledge while they are under the ground during brumation (winter sleep) or aestivation (summer sleep). Try to keep the russian away from digging along that wooden fence. 

The sulcata will dig as well, but they usually dig only one tunnel in their burrow, one way on one way out. Russians burrow- more like bury themselves and come back up almost anywhere within a relative distance away. This takes a while, so if you make sure to take your russian tortoise inside at night then he probably wont have enough time to dig out.


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## lynnedit (Feb 16, 2013)

You could search 'heated sulcata hide' on TFO, build it on one end. I think the main thing is making it big enough for him to grow into.
Yvonne has had a nice suggestion which I have used. Line the edge of the enclosure (in your case the fence line) with pavers (I use the 8"x16"). The torts tend to use it as a walkway but burrow elsewhere. This trick may apply more to Russians.
The main goal with Sulcatas is making the fencing strong enough as they get bigger!


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## Blakem (Feb 17, 2013)

On both sides I luckily have cement that is 4 inches wide. On both sides of the enclosure.


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## Cowboy_Ken (Feb 17, 2013)

Blake,
What I have done with my Russian outdoor pen to discourage random digging is to start the digging for them where I want it. By this, I dig up an area in the middle of the enclosure about a shovels depth. I break the soil up to remove big clods. This is on a south facing hill. The Russians are attracted to this area due in part from the easier digging and preferred burrow site,(south facing-hill). I firm the soil with pressure. Once they take notice of this area, I cover most of it with a piece of plywood, leaving the lower entrance exposed for their use. They'll continue to excavate under this and enlarge it, usually not too deeply due in part to the secure roof. In the evening, collection of the tortoises is easily accomplished simply by flipping the board. 
My Sulcatas do not dig in their outdoor enclosure. Here I've got scrap pieces of 12"x12" about 2' long with a piece of plywood bridging the gap between them overhead. Again, this provides a nice retreat for the tortoise were he to get too hot.
Hope this helps.


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## Blakem (Feb 17, 2013)

Cowboy_Ken said:


> Blake,
> What I have done with my Russian outdoor pen to discourage random digging is to start the digging for them where I want it. By this, I dig up an area in the middle of the enclosure about a shovels depth. I break the soil up to remove big clods. This is on a south facing hill. The Russians are attracted to this area due in part from the easier digging and preferred burrow site,(south facing-hill). I firm the soil with pressure. Once they take notice of this area, I cover most of it with a piece of plywood, leaving the lower entrance exposed for their use. They'll continue to excavate under this and enlarge it, usually not too deeply due in part to the secure roof. In the evening, collection of the tortoises is easily accomplished simply by flipping the board.
> My Sulcatas do not dig in their outdoor enclosure. Here I've got scrap pieces of 12"x12" about 2' long with a piece of plywood bridging the gap between them overhead. Again, this provides a nice retreat for the tortoise were he to get too hot.
> Hope this helps.



Wow, how did you figure this speculation out? This is great! I'll configure this into my work, thanks.


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## Team Gomberg (Feb 17, 2013)

lynnedit said:


> Yvonne has had a nice suggestion which I have used. Line the edge of the enclosure (in your case the fence line) with pavers (I use the 8"x16"). The torts tend to use it as a walkway but burrow elsewhere.



FANTASTIC Tip!!


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## Blakem (Feb 26, 2013)

Update: I've done more cleaning up, but I have a long ways to go. Their are a lot of rocks and pebbles. But, it's starting to come together. I am in the process of taking out the star jasmine right now. 












And this is dexter roaming around while I was working.


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## Tom (Feb 26, 2013)

Looks like it will work fine for warm summer days, but probably too cool and shady the rest of the year.


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## Blakem (Feb 26, 2013)

There is 4-5 hours of sun per day during spring. I too was worried last year when I was building the area for my Russian. Do you think it will be insufficient for my sulcata to be out 24/7?


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## Tom (Feb 26, 2013)

Insufficient? No probably not. Certainly not optimal though. They like to warm up in the early morning sun, and sometimes mine like to be out catching the last warming rays before the sun sets. If they have a warm retreat and the air temps out there aren't too cool, you should be okay. I would use the section you are using now, but connect it to another part of the yard that gets more sun. I wouldn't use an area like this for sun loving species, but that is just my personal preference. It's not really wrong per se, I just prefer a more sunny area for sulcatas. If your indoor enclosure is still good, then this should make a fine outdoor enclosure during the warmer months. Either way, you've only got another 2-3 years before he totally outgrows this area too. 

I don't want to be a bummer, but I felt the need to bring it up to you. I wouldn't want to be talking about it after you had a problem and no one said anything to warn you of possible pitfalls. Watch those temps out there.


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## Blakem (Feb 26, 2013)

Sorry, I was vague. I meant an insufficient amount if UVB rays. I would love to extend to an area that receives more sun, but I sill live at home and this is what my parents are allowing me to do. I will be done with my teaching credential in 2 years or shorter, so I'll be moved out before he gets too big. I really appreciate the heads up, I always embrace constructive criticism.


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## sibi (Feb 26, 2013)

Blake, how old is your sulcata? He looks as big as mine, and looks so smooth. My sulcatas are 5 1/2 lbs and 9 inches. They are 16 months old now. What is your sully's weight? I'm just curious.


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## Blakem (Feb 26, 2013)

My sulcata is 11 months old. He weighs almost 600 grams. I have a thread about dexters stats that I update monthly. He's 5.25 inches long now and 4 inches wide.


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## lynnedit (Feb 26, 2013)

That's what you have to work with, and it will work for the next 2 years or so. 
When you move, you will be looking for a place with lots of sun!
It is true more sun, especially in the am, would be ideal, but any sun is good, even an hour's worth!

I believe you mentioned you bring them in at night?


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## Blakem (Feb 26, 2013)

I will be bringing my Russian in. My sulcata will have a heated enclosure outside.


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## lynnedit (Feb 26, 2013)

That works. Tortoises just seem to do better outside, so keep up with your plans.


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## Blakem (Mar 5, 2013)

Slowly, but surely, it's coming together.


My dad told me we are going to build it like a greenhouse. Any advice while building it would be great!


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## Blakem (Mar 19, 2013)




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## lunalink (Mar 19, 2013)

coming along smoothly, I like it.


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## sibi (Mar 19, 2013)

What are those blinds, shudders, and do they open on the top? Is this enclosure built to keep rain out? Will it interfere with sun rays?


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## Team Gomberg (Mar 19, 2013)

Visually it looks like you will have a fantastic green house. Just know that the UV rays will be filtered out so your tortoise's (you were making this for a sully and a russian, right?) need access to another area of the yard where they can bask and be exposed to unfiltered sun light. 

Putting in artificial UV lighting is always an option.


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## Blakem (Mar 19, 2013)

They aren't shutters. They are clear panels and they block out 99.9% of harmful sunrays. I had no say in what my dad bought, but he knows that they need sun.


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## Team Gomberg (Mar 19, 2013)

I know the exact panels you bought. Many keepers use them to line fencing for tort pens. 

Sun light WILL penetrate the panels, the amount of beneficial UV rays needed WILL NOT. 

Dad picked out the perfect panels for a greenhouse!! ...just not the right top for a tortoise pen. And it's not "his fault". Many people (even some turtle owners) dont know that UV is filtered out. Filtered through wire mesh, glass windows, your panels etc. 

Either add UV lighting in the enclosure or give them some time in another area every day. I know your parents dont want that...but UV is a must for a pet turtle.


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## Lasciels Toy (Mar 20, 2013)

Hmm that's the first time I've ever seen someone do home remodeling with metal studs, let alone frame in a roof with it, interesting. What's the purpose of the gutter? Fill it with water to up the humidity via evaporation?


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## Blakem (Mar 20, 2013)

Lasciels Toy said:


> Hmm that's the first time I've ever seen someone do home remodeling with metal studs, let alone frame in a roof with it, interesting. What's the purpose of the gutter? Fill it with water to up the humidity via evaporation?



The metal studs are for a sturdier frame. We had a difficult time finding them since they are not commonly used anymore. The roof is to weather proof the "greenhouse" effect. The gutter will be used for planting grasses, edible flowers etc...do yo have any advice?


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## Yvonne G (Mar 20, 2013)

I really like it Blake. And its great that your dad is helping with the build. I would get a UV meter...one that measures UVB, and see exactly what you've got inside there. It may be ok for the tortoises. Felice Rood, of the Sacrament Turtle & Tortoise club keeps a lot of her tortoises in a green house during the winter. She has never said she has any problems with no UVB.


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## Blakem (Mar 20, 2013)

Blake m said:


> Lasciels Toy said:
> 
> 
> > Hmm that's the first time I've ever seen someone do home remodeling with metal studs, let alone frame in a roof with it, interesting. What's the purpose of the gutter? Fill it with water to up the humidity via evaporation?
> ...


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## Team Gomberg (Mar 20, 2013)

emysemys said:


> I really like it Blake. And its great that your dad is helping with the build. I would get a UV meter...one that measures UVB, and see exactly what you've got inside there. It may be ok for the tortoises. Felice Rood, of the Sacrament Turtle & Tortoise club keeps a lot of her tortoises in a green house during the winter. She has never said she has any problems with no UVB.



I wouldn't think there is a problem housing like this over winter. But housing like this full time, year round is why i think there wouldn't be enough uv.


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## Blakem (Mar 20, 2013)

I believe it will be great for my guys. The space is there, food, comfort, warmth will e provided, and I will place a UVB light if needed.


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## Lasciels Toy (Mar 20, 2013)

Not really, looks like you go everything covered. But ya, I'm used to seeing them on condos or club houses I worked on, purely commercial work so it was odd to see it here. Hate the stuff personally, I did interior trim, so I'd have to screw everything in instead of nailing it, such a pain lol. But the heavy guage ones are plenty sturdy for what you're doing with them. The only thing I would say from trying to see the details on my cell, is maybe putting a large vent cover on either side that you can cover, to allow for air circulation. That and as Sibi hinted at, a drop down panel/skylight you can work in later for a hot spot when the suns overhead or another way to circulate air. That's just nitpicking though, looks great so far. 
On a side note, is there a green thumb here that can tell me if that gutter would be fine for bringing the plants to full bloom? I was seed shopping and was curious about some I could buy to put in my inside enclosure, but the description said they would bury roots 16" plus. Would that matter in 3-4" of substrate?


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## lynnedit (Mar 20, 2013)

You could definitely grow greens in the 'gutter' planter. Obviously you won't grow shrubs in there, but I believe the idea with greens is to snip off what you need, and let them grow again (as you do with some of the lettuce mixes). So that should work. 

This is a fine two year solution, and after, your parents will have a nice greenhouse. Meanwhile, if needed, you can add a UV basking light for each tortoise. 
Also, looks pretty secure, so perhaps your Russian could stay outside in the summer? 
(unless his area is in a different location :? )


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## Blakem (Mar 29, 2013)

The new cement slab is where the house will sit on top of. Since it is going to be keeping in so much heat, we are placing an attic fan that turns on when it gets to a certain temperature to take out some of the heat. I also plan on placing in a misting system. Criticism is welcomed! Thanks for looking. 
















And my attempt to draw a turtle in the cement...failed, to say the least. 




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## theelectraco (Mar 29, 2013)

Isn't the roof material going to filter out the UVB rays


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## Blakem (Mar 29, 2013)

Read above. It says that it protects against 99.5 percent of harmful rays. I'll be placing a MVB light in the house. I live at home (for approximately 2 more years) and my parents paid for most of it. It will still work well. 


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## Jd3 (Mar 29, 2013)

theelectraco said:


> Isn't the roof material going to filter out the UVB rays



That has been covered more than once in the thread. Blake is prepared to use supplemental UVB 

A small basking platform with a MVB bulb would do the trick well.


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## theelectraco (Mar 29, 2013)

I would try to create a way for it to get some natural UVB...maybe there is a certain portion that gets more sunlight, and you could create a removable panel on the ceiling( or something on hinges or slides) that you could allow natural sunlight through. Just an idea. I would hate to make an elaborate outdoor enclosure like that and not get ANY natural UVB.


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## surie_the_tortoise (Mar 29, 2013)

looks nice and your sulcata looks good. will be a happy tort for the time your dealing with


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## Eloise's mommy (Mar 29, 2013)

can I just point out that this is a fantastic use of wasted space!! the stupid side yard that nobody really ever uses as much more than a pass through now has a great purpose!! Not only has a tort home but a green house and it could even be used as storage at some point for kids outdoor toys there are so many possiblities for this space with or with out tortoises. Great job can't wait to see it completed.


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## Blakem (Mar 29, 2013)

theelectraco said:


> I would try to create a way for it to get some natural UVB...maybe there is a certain portion that gets more sunlight, and you could create a removable panel on the ceiling( or something on hinges or slides) that you could allow natural sunlight through. Just an idea. I would hate to make an elaborate outdoor enclosure like that and not get ANY natural UVB.



I would definitely LOVE to include some sort of way to have natural sun in the area. I also agree that making such am elaborate enclosure would be much more efficient with natural sun. I will think on this one. I will buy a UV measuring tool and let you guys know how much it gets. 


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## lynnedit (Mar 29, 2013)

It really looks good, and is something your parents can use once you have moved on. Way to go!


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## Blakem (Apr 1, 2013)

So the big pipe is for my parents to plant some if their plants. The next step is top soil, building the house tomorrow, abd plant a lot of seeds. My parents have a lot of soil left (with the white balls), is it okay to grow food in there that my sulcata will munch on? I'm going to start keeping an eye on temps. Other than doing some cleaning and getting the housing together, what else should I be doing at this point? 


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## lynnedit (Apr 1, 2013)

Yes, you can grow plants in any kind of soil (with vermiculite), just don't give the soil with the greens. I grow weeds/seeds and cut them off when they are about 3-4" high, leaving an inch or two, and they grow again for awhile.
Perhaps a log, some rocks creating a mound for climbing. 
Once you get your basics in, you can fine tune the area for interest. Your goal to get the hide done, sprout seeds, and the UVB source are a good first step.


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## Blakem (Apr 1, 2013)

lynnedit said:


> Yes, you can grow plants in any kind of soil (with vermiculite), just don't give the soil with the greens. I grow weeds/seeds and cut them off when they are about 3-4" high, leaving an inch or two, and they grow again for awhile.
> Perhaps a log, some rocks creating a mound for climbing.
> Once you get your basics in, you can fine tune the area for interest. Your goal to get the hide done, sprout seeds, and the UVB source are a good first step.



Great thanks! I was thinking a sight barrier would be good as well. Great to know about te soil. I did get 3 cubic feet of the organic soil for 3.78$ at lowes, while 1.5 cubi feet of regular was 3.48$. I'm sure there's better stuff in the miracle grow, but I had a great outcome from last years growth with he organic. Thanks for your input.


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What about laying sod instead of dirt? I've never read of anyone doing this, so I thought I would ask


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## lynnedit (Apr 1, 2013)

I like the organic topsoil from Home Depot,Lowe's, or Ace, for enclosures as well.


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## pugsandkids (Apr 1, 2013)

Sod is usually full of pesticides and herbicides


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## Blakem (Apr 1, 2013)

Good to know! Thank you. I'll just stick with dirt


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## Team Gomberg (Apr 2, 2013)

pugsandkids said:


> Sod is usually full of pesticides and herbicides



In addition to the above, sod has the green netting material underneath. As a sulcata eats the grass down the netting can be exposed and eventually cause a tangle hazard. 

I do know of one member who used sod for his leopard hatchling's, well now yearling's outdoor pen. Not sure if it was regular or organic. 

BUT if you can do the dirt and grow your own grass, why not?  grass is soooooo easy and CHEAP to grow! I just grew an entire front and back lawn with tall fescue grass. After a few months it is finally mature and ready to be walked/played on!


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## Blakem (Apr 2, 2013)

Blake m said:


> Good to know! Thank you. I'll just stick with dirt
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using TortoiseForum mobile app



My girlfriend, or mother, did mention growing my own. That would be fun to do actually. I will have to look up the process it takes to do that


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## Team Gomberg (Apr 2, 2013)

It's easy. 
I raked the ground first and watered. 
Sprinkled out the grass seed. 
Covered the grass seed with top soil. 
Watered again. 

When watering, use a light shower or mist. Strong water pressure can move the dirt and seed to much. 

I watered a few times a day. Keep the soil damp until you see growth. Once growth comes in you can water a little less.

As you read up on it, you'll see it spelled out similar to what I just shared with you. 

You can probably do your whole enclosure for $20

Takes about a week or so from the sewing to the grass sprouting.


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## Blakem (Apr 2, 2013)

Cool, I think I will be doing that! I may add in some random bits of Russian tortoise seed and sulcata grazing mix that I already have. I'm looking forward to this now.


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## Team Gomberg (Apr 2, 2013)

In my pens i planted mostly the grass and did "patches" of different seeds. 
It grew in wonderfully that way.


Here is an example of how it turns out.

Have fun!


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## Blakem (Apr 3, 2013)

It's getting super close now. I'm getting really excited now that the grass and soil is laid down. More and more sun is reaching the whole enclosure. In between 11-4 the sun covers half of the whole area, which is great! I don't think dexter (sulcata) and ezek (russian) know what to do with all the space.


































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## Eloise's mommy (Apr 4, 2013)

Where is the divider to seperate the russian and the Sulcata? Will there be a divider?


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## Blakem (Apr 4, 2013)

I have the divider already, I just have to place it in there wen everything is ready to go. It's an 8 inch tall board.


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I used it with my Russian on my old outside enclosure.


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## lynnedit (Apr 4, 2013)

I think I can see Dexter giving a 'claws up' sign, so you are approved!


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## Blakem (Apr 12, 2013)

Enjoying the morning sun!






Sulcata (Dexter)
Russian (Ezek)


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## lynnedit (Apr 12, 2013)

Nice! You need a chair in there, don't forget!


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## Team Gomberg (Apr 15, 2013)

just one pic??

come on, we need more!

did you decide to grow the grass yourself? told you it was easy


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## Blakem (Apr 16, 2013)

Team Gomberg said:


> just one pic??
> 
> come on, we need more!
> 
> did you decide to grow the grass yourself? told you it was easy



Shame on me! I posted two pictures in pretend chat 2, but neither of them have my guys in them. The grass and weeds are growing VERY well. I see new growth everyday. The Russian and tortoise grazing mix (from Carolina pet supply) is growing REALLY fast. The grass is thin, but about 4 inches long. Thanks for your help!


Sulcata (Dexter)
Russian (Ezek)









Sulcata (Dexter)
Russian (Ezek)


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## Team Gomberg (Apr 16, 2013)

The grass is thin in the beginning. Believe it or not that fastest way to thicken it up, is to cut it. After 2 or 3 cuts it will be a totally different THICKER lawn  

grazing lawn in this case


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## Blakem (Apr 22, 2013)

I'm trying to find a mini oil heater to heat the housing unit. Once I do, I will then connect it to the thermostat. Then I will be done! I am wondering if most members close the housing area for bed time, or if they just allow their young sulcatas to go in as they please. 


Sulcata (Dexter)
Russian (Ezek)


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## sibi (Apr 22, 2013)

I wouldn't. My sullies are 1 1/2 years old and when they actually get ready to move into their outdoor enclosure, I will put them in for the night, have the lights set on a timer to go off, and lock the door until the next morning. This way, they'll be safe from predators especially people.


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## Blakem (Apr 22, 2013)

It is in a greenhouse that is covered well. The only way a predator can get in is if it broke down my fence. I will have to make a door that can be closed then!


Sulcata (Dexter)
Russian (Ezek)


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## lynnedit (Apr 22, 2013)

You do have the extra security of the fence.

Re: mini oil heater, you mean something like this? I think they have them on Amazon too.
http://www.walmart.com/ip/15162310?...1=g&wl2=&wl3=21486607510&wl4=&wl5=pla&veh=sem


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## Tom (Apr 22, 2013)

Why couldn't a predator go over or under your fence? I've never seen any North American tortoise predators break down a fence, but I've see lots of them go over or under.

I lock up small ones every night. I lock up my adults on cold winter nights and leave the door open all summer. I think if a coyote or raccoon went in my night box, they'd get their mouth and or legs smashed. Those big ones smash first and ask questions later when you disturb them at night. They hit the side so hard it dents the plywood. Adults sulcatas can be formidable limb smashers.


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## Blakem (Apr 22, 2013)

If you look at previou pages, you'll see it's completely covered and protected by steel studs, cement, and it's very sturdy. It's a greenhouse. 


Sulcata (Dexter)
Russian (Ezek)


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## Tom (Apr 22, 2013)

Blake m said:


> If you look at previou pages, you'll see it's completely covered and protected by steel studs, cement, and it's very sturdy. It's a greenhouse.
> 
> 
> Sulcata (Dexter)
> Russian (Ezek)



Oh yes. Had to go back and look at the beginning of the thread. Now I remember. The pic you just posted didn't jog my memory. I remember the history now.

Your giant monster is going to outgrow this in a couple of years you know? Did you already tell me your plan for that 4 pages ago?


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## Blakem (Apr 22, 2013)

I still live at home (finishing my credential) and I will be moving out in 2 years or shorter. I will make sure that dexter will always be comfortable wherever living. I appreciate you laying out the concern for the happiness of my tortoise. 
If, for some reason, dexter grows really fast, I will build an area at my grandmas (an investment home that I help pay the mortgage) that is half a mile away. Sun, space, and weeds grow like crazy.


Sulcata (Dexter)
Russian (Ezek)


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## Tom (Apr 22, 2013)

Okay. Let's recap:
1. You bought a tortoise from an excellent source.
2. You raised it perfectly and produced perfect results.
3. You have a large outdoor enclosure where your tortoise can roam and graze freely.
4. You have a plan for the future when he gets much bigger.
5. You have a BACK UP plan if plan "A" fails...

I think you get a perfect score my friend.


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## Blakem (Apr 23, 2013)

Confidence officially boosted.



Sulcata (Dexter)
Russian (Ezek)


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## Momof4 (Apr 23, 2013)

Wow! Tom's stamp of approval!! I wish more people planned like you.

BTW- Your dog is looking awesome!!


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## Blakem (Apr 23, 2013)

Momof4 said:


> Wow! Tom's stamp of approval!! I wish more people planned like you.
> 
> BTW- Your dog is looking awesome!!



Thanks! He's such a pleasant dog! My girlfriend have him in dog school ad are really trying to get him to nt want to intimidate other dogs. Here he is the other day with me  






Sulcata (Dexter)
Russian (Ezek)


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## Blakem (Apr 29, 2013)

The plants are THRIVING! More importantly, so is my sulcata.


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## lynnedit (Apr 29, 2013)

Cute pic of you are your GF's dog!

And the enclosure looks glorious!


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## Blakem (May 1, 2013)

Thank you! I think the enclosure is being well used.


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## SpdTrtl (May 1, 2013)

Looking very nice


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## srod (May 1, 2013)

Blaaaaake! Your outdoor enclosure is phenomenal! 

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## Blakem (May 2, 2013)

Thank you very much srod! I've worked pretty hard on it. My dad is great at building, I was his apprentice.


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