# One tort sits on the other



## topazjewel8 (Jan 2, 2010)

So I am a newbie and I have had my torts for only 15 days but I don't know what it means when a tortoise sits on another tortoise. They both are about a year old and were together when I got them. Dotty weighs about 182 grams and Poppy weighs about 118 grams. I don't really know their gender, I just named them that way. So far I have caught Dotty sitting on Poppy three times in two days. I thought they were playing, but my mom thinks Poppy is being bullied. I put a cardboard divider down the middle of their 20 gallon tank. Poppy is sleeping right now, but Dotty seems agitated. She is walking around in circles and has black around her mouth. My mom thinks Dotty has been eating poop! That's just gross! Dotty seems angry.
What do I do? Should I keep them seperated? I want to do the best for Poppy. She needs to grow and get bigger. Help!


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## Maggie Cummings (Jan 2, 2010)

Tortoises do eat poop. It's natural for them. But to help you we at least need to know what species of tortoise you have? Also a 20 gallon aquarium is great for fish but not so great for 2 tortoises. So take us some pictures and tell us what species they are...we'll start from there. Oh...The one was sitting on the other because she was bullying the bottom one and your tank is just too small...20 gallons isn't even big enough for 1 tort...


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## Candy (Jan 2, 2010)

Welcome to the forum. What kind of tortoises do you have? Yes one might be trying to bully the other one I'm not sure though and yes they do eat poo. I know it sounds gross but if they can get to it they will ingest it. I don't know if you can put a barrier up like that between them or not I think it might just frustrate them.


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## topazjewel8 (Jan 2, 2010)

The barrier was just a quick temporary solution. I didn't know the tank was too small. The person I got the tortoises from had them in a 10 gallon tank and gave me the larger tank just because I had the space for it. So what size tank are the torts supposed to be in? They are too young to hibernate, especially Poppy. OK, the pictures are blurry so I need to take better photos but for now you can see the torties.


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## Candy (Jan 2, 2010)

I'm still trying to figure out what kind of tortoise that is. It's hard to see in your pictures. Are they Sulcata's? Yes a 20 gallon is way too small for what your holding in your hand.


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## Yvonne G (Jan 2, 2010)

Your desert tortoises would be fine in a large plastic tub. You can buy them similar to this:







at wal-mart, k-mart or any big box store. They are much cheaper than aquariums. The tortoises are too big to be kept in the same habitat unless you buy a Christmas tree storage bin:






But they're about $40. You can pick up the smaller ones like my first picture for under $10.

Oh and by the way, the official name of your tortoises is Gopherus agassizii (desert tortoises). 

You should be working on their outdoor pen this winter while they are in the house. They are big enough to be outside when the weather gets better.

I think you'll find that they both eat and get along much better when they are separated.


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## GBtortoises (Jan 3, 2010)

Your tortoises aren't playing and it's doubtful that one is "bullying" the other. They do not show dominance in the manner of one sitting on the top of the other like a schoolyard bully! Depending upon species, tortoises show dominance by shoving, ramming, biting and in some cases attempting to overturn their opponent. Typically this action is between two males that are near maturity but dominant females are not that uncommon either, especially during mating season and nesting seasons. 

If you have a basking light that is either too far away from the tortoises carapace, does not produce enough heat or the heat is radiated in an area too small it will cause a tortoise to attempt to get closer to the heat source and they will often climb on top of each other to do so.

Tortoises don't have manners and you can't teach them to have. You have to adapt your set up to meet their needs.


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## topazjewel8 (Jan 3, 2010)

Oh, great replies! Yes, they are Desert Tortoise (Gopherus agassizii). I really like the idea of the plastic tubs. The tubs tend to be on sale right now, so if I get out soon I can probably still get two of them. I am concerned about the under the tank heater, it gets really warm, will it melt the plastic or make it soft? My friend, who gave me the torties, insisted that I keep an under the tank heater on all the time. I tend to worry about everything and after reading about the near fire from a fallen lamp I am feeling very cautious. 
I guess I can keep the glass tank for one tortie and get a plastic tub for the other tort. Thanks, now I know what I have to do.


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## Yvonne G (Jan 3, 2010)

Your tortoises are big enough to not need the under-the-tank heater. But if you have the right kind, it doesn't melt the plastic:











This is a warming strip for seedlings. It never gets above 80 degrees.

But like I said, you don't need to keep them warm from underneath because of their size. That's just for very small tortoises.

A light or CHE (ceramic heat emitter) hanging above the habitat is all you need. Then if your house stays in the upper 60's, lower 70's at night, thats ok and you don't need night heat. But if it get colder than that you can use an overhead fixture with either a CHE or a black or red bulb for night time heat.

I don't mean to sound cruel, because he is probably a very nice person, but anyone who keeps those two tortoises, at their size, in a 10 gallon aquarium isn't one I would pay much attention to in the advice department.


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## topazjewel8 (Jan 3, 2010)

The person I got them from is a wonderful person. But his pets do tend to lead boring lives or as I am finding out, lives of quiet desperation in 10 gal. tanks. The bigger the enclosure the better, is usually the case for most pets even poor Beta fish.


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## Floof (Jan 3, 2010)

If you don't choose to keep them in the same tub, you should get them each their own tub. Aside from them being much more suitable, size-wise, I would, by no means, call ANY 20 gallon tank a "good" enclosure for any tortoise, especially one of that size.

Also, I have to wonder if Dotty is so restless because she wants more room to roam. I could be wrong, I could even be anthropomorphizing a bit, but, according to the wonderful people here, tortoises DO like (demand, even) a lot of space to explore.


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