# Hibernation



## Tanyabobanya (Nov 23, 2019)

Hello everyone! I’ve posted about my tortoises before and know there are threads about hibernation but I’m posting this question because I’m dizzy from reading and my thumbs are aching.
I have 2 desert tortoises, 5 years old and I must hibernate them. One is asleep in his cave for a couple days. The other coming out in the morning because the room I keep them in at night gets warm and the sun is shining. So I put him outside where it’s cooler in the shade but warm in the sun. I haven’t been feeding them for about a week, except for what’s in their outdoor enclosure growing and I’ve been soaking them everyday. What do I do now? Move them to a colder dark room? We have a basement that stays cold but if not cold enough I can get a fridge(?). My moms advice, she has the parents, is always- just put them in card board boxes and put them in a closet. I’m too confused and stressed to do that. One is up now.. do I keep putting him outside? Or.. watch how much they pee and put them in the basement? Or..


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## KarenSoCal (Nov 24, 2019)

Tanyabobanya said:


> Hello everyone! I’ve posted about my tortoises before and know there are threads about hibernation but I’m posting this question because I’m dizzy from reading and my thumbs are aching.
> I have 2 desert tortoises, 5 years old and I must hibernate them. One is asleep in his cave for a couple days. The other coming out in the morning because the room I keep them in at night gets warm and the sun is shining. So I put him outside where it’s cooler in the shade but warm in the sun. I haven’t been feeding them for about a week, except for what’s in their outdoor enclosure growing and I’ve been soaking them everyday. What do I do now? Move them to a colder dark room? We have a basement that stays cold but if not cold enough I can get a fridge(?). My moms advice, she has the parents, is always- just put them in card board boxes and put them in a closet. I’m too confused and stressed to do that. One is up now.. do I keep putting him outside? Or.. watch how much they pee and put them in the basement? Or..


Hi! I have just one DT, and am in the same situation as you.

My garage is cold at night, but by day it really warms up. There is a much too wide variation in the temps to be suitable for Chug to sleep there. Plus, I don't like the fumes from the car, and the possibility of ants or rats getting to him.

If your garage or basement stays consistantly between 45-50 deg, by all means put them in a box-in-box, line it with lots of papers, and put them up on a shelf or pallet off the floor. Keep an eye out for ants or rat activity...you're good to go! 

However, if you can't maintain those conditions reliably for 4 months, you and your torts will be better off with the fridge.

You said they have not eaten for 1 week...you need another week of no eating before they can konk out. They need those 2 weeks to poop everything in there ...out. And keep soaking daily, maybe slightly cooler water than usual. You do not want to heat the core of his body. Encourage drinking and pooping, and hopefully the pooping will stop prior to chilling down.

Now for me, using a fridge, this is the hard part. Chug has eaten nothing for 2 weeks, was soaked nearly daily for those 2 weeks, but is still up and walking around for a portion of the day.

My plan is this: 
As long as he gets himself up and outside, I will soak him in cooler than usual water. If he does not come out, I will not soak.

My weather app is my best friend right now. I'm watching for nights with a low 45-50 deg. I have his box and fridge all ready, and the fridge is maintaining 46-48 deg.

The chosen morning I will get up about 4-5 AM, before the sky lightens, check the actual temp outside, and get him. I'll place him in his box, and slide him into the fridge. 

Night night sweet Chug! I'll see you in March!


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## Tanyabobanya (Nov 26, 2019)

Thank you this is good to know. I fee so alone! Do you think it’s ok to let them walk around in their outdoor enclosure in the day even with the sun being warm? It has cooled off weather wise. I’m trying to get them to poop and pee and drink but it’s hard and I can’t tell if they peeing enough. One of them, Dribble, is much slower and still sleeping now in his cave Indoors. The other is outside because he clearly wanted out and the sun shines on his indoor enclosure first. I’m worried to let Dribble sleep all day inside and not move around to pee and poo. But I also worry with no food and the little I get him to eat, he’ll get sick or weak. I want to put them in the basement by Thursday morning because we are having people over thanksgiving and it gets noisy. But I haven’t checked the day time temp yet down there. My mother makes this all seem so easy. She’s had the parents since about 1976! I would like to find a great home for these 2 because they feel, captive here to me, and having 2 male siblings in the same enclosure is no good. Anyhow thanks for the advice. I’ll look into a fridge if it’s too warm down there. Is 50 the warmest it can be? I know I should search the web for this info.


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## KarenSoCal (Nov 27, 2019)

I think 50 is about the warmest it should stay. You want them in a really slow metabolic state, rather than using too much of their resources. That said, if it's 1 or 2 deg higher, it should be OK. The lack of fluctuation in temp is as important as the temp itself.

You are correct in wanting them to poop, but you do not want them to pee. Once asleep, they will no longer be drinking, and you want them with full bladders. That water will be used by their bodies during brumation. Keep soaking. Also, after no food for 2 weeks, pooping will also eventually stop. That's a good thing...you want them full of water, and their guts completely empty.

Maybe over the winter, while they sleep, it would be a good time to address the issue of separating them. It does have to be done, as they will start fighting.

They should be OK in their enclosure, as long as they are not eating, and you will be able to reach them when it's time.

Yes, they are captive. But they don't know any other life, and you obviously care for them and want to do what's best for them. They are probably right where they should be.

You are not alone, either. All of us were terrified when we first started. I've only had Chug for 2 years, and I am very uncertain what to do at times. But I, and you, have this forum. We have experts here who are willing to help you with anything. Don't search the internet! Guaranteed, it'll mess you up with a hundred differing "opinions" from many folks who have no idea what they're talking about. If you would like more members here to chime in, I'd be glad to tag other DT keepers. We welcome questions...keeps us on our toes!


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## Tanyabobanya (Nov 27, 2019)

Thank you again for this helpful info. I checked temp in our basement-temp gun reads low 60’s at lowest and 70’s closer to electrical boxes. The stick on temp/ humidity thing read almost 10 degrees higher at lowest. Whichever it is, it seems not cold enough. . Can I fit 2 tortoises in one small fridge is my concern now. I’m not positive they’ve been fasting for exactly 2 weeks but pretty sure it’s been that long. They aren’t pooping in their indoor enclosures and I’ve only seen one of them poop outside but I’m not watching them all day. Now it’s raining and they’re both inside asleep. When I take them out to soak they feel colder than the room temp which says about 70. Can I start tomorrow morning (if I find a fridge) if I’m not sure they’ve emptied stomachs? It’s raining now so no going outside and walking to help the poop move. Somehow my mom’s tortoises have been fine in boxes in a closet where the temp in the day can’t stay 50. She goes by how cold it feels. And she’s been doing this for 30 something years. But I’m nervous to be so casual about it. I hope mine are ok now with feeling so cold to the touch and no food. I’m so tempted to soak them in warm water. I’m keeping it more room temp. Growing up with tanks of tortoises in our living room and 2 in the backyard, I don’t recall my mom ever stressing over them. I’ve been pre occupied with this since the day she suggested watching eggs hatch with my kids would be a good experience, not facing the reality that this is a lifetime plus commitment. Part of me wants to give them all back to her since she says “mine are all hibernating already you're over thinking this”. But I can’t because she’s got her own health issues now. Sorry this got so long! I could’ve posted a 2 sentence question. I also have a one year old tortoise with an entirely different issue I should start a new thread for. Thank you forum people and feel free to tag anyone!


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## Tanyabobanya (Nov 27, 2019)

And if anyone has a mini fridge recommendation I’m looking for one that fits 2 5 year old desert tortoises. Thank you!


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## Tanyabobanya (Nov 27, 2019)

Someone tell me which to get- 2 tortoises in one? Or 2 separate.. I think these are all on the right temp range. And which one(s). Panic attack at [email protected] or anyone..out there..


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## KarenSoCal (Nov 27, 2019)

You can put them both in the same fridge, but each needs to be in its own box or container.

I use a 4.2 cu ft dorm type fridge. Your torts are going to grow, so you'll want the largest one you can get. Chug is close to outgrowing his. The problem is the depth (front to rear) of the shelf. When in the container for the winter, I want him to be able to turn around, and the shelf limits how wide the container is. I hope that made sense.  
One of the pix shows a fridge/freezer combo. I prefer one that does not have the capability to freeze, since freezing is a very serious circumstance for your torts' eyes.

I have considered a wine cooler also. Again, size is important. And since you are in a bit of a rush, taking the bottle rack out might be an issue. I really don't know how difficult that is to do.

As for putting them in, you really should run the fridge/cooler for a few days to get a feel for the temp control. Put cans, bottles, etc in the fridge to help with temp stability. I also put freezer packs in, like the ones you put in a cooler. They get cool and help with temp stability too.

Don't panic...it's all going to work out.

@Tom 
Any wisdom to offer?


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## Tom (Nov 28, 2019)

Wine fridges don't get cool enough.

The mini fridges I have tried did not hold a consistent temp and some of them occasionally dip too low.

Full size regular fridges have worked best for me. I stock them as full as I can with drinks and things to help with heat inertia. Essentially, once the fridge cools everything, a whole bunch of stuff will make the temp more stable and keep it colder longer than a mostly empty fridge.

Use at least two different thermometers. I often put one on each shelf.

I prefer plastic shoe boxes for tortoises that will fit in them. I drill 2-4 small 1/4inch holes in the sides of the boxes near the top for ventilation, and I keep the lids on the boxes. Dark colored opaque boxes work best, but since it is pitch black inside the fridge, clear ones are fine too.


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## KarenSoCal (Nov 28, 2019)

@Tom


Tom said:


> Wine fridges don't get cool enough.
> 
> The mini fridges I have tried did not hold a consistent temp and some of them occasionally dip too low.
> 
> ...


Thank you, Tom. My experience with my 4.2 cu ft fridge has been a good one. I load it with stuff for the stability, and it stays at 46-48 deg. This is its 3rd winter.

But if he grows like he did last spring, I'm going to have to shop for a new one.


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## Tom (Nov 28, 2019)

Tanyabobanya said:


> Thank you this is good to know. I fee so alone! Do you think it’s ok to let them walk around in their outdoor enclosure in the day even with the sun being warm? It has cooled off weather wise. I’m trying to get them to poop and pee and drink but it’s hard and I can’t tell if they peeing enough. One of them, Dribble, is much slower and still sleeping now in his cave Indoors. The other is outside because he clearly wanted out and the sun shines on his indoor enclosure first. I’m worried to let Dribble sleep all day inside and not move around to pee and poo. But I also worry with no food and the little I get him to eat, he’ll get sick or weak. I want to put them in the basement by Thursday morning because we are having people over thanksgiving and it gets noisy. But I haven’t checked the day time temp yet down there. My mother makes this all seem so easy. She’s had the parents since about 1976! I would like to find a great home for these 2 because they feel, captive here to me, and having 2 male siblings in the same enclosure is no good. Anyhow thanks for the advice. I’ll look into a fridge if it’s too warm down there. Is 50 the warmest it can be? I know I should search the web for this info.


The one that is still coming out, MIGHT be coming out to warm up and keep his GI tract moving. They do this to empty their gut. Once they get cold and start to slumber, their GI tract will not be moving any remaining food through, and this is what can kill them. I keep mine up, warm and active for two weeks AFTER their last meal. I soak them daily or every other day during this two week period and I begin shortening the days and cooling them more and more AFTER this two week period of warmth. For smaller tortoises, I accomplish this with indoor enclosures. For larger tortoises or tortoises that live outside, I accomplish this by adjusting the temp of their night boxes. and adding heat lamps if necessary. The heat lamps help in fall with this process, and again in spring when I'm trying to wake them up and we hit a cold spell in the weather. We always seem to get one last cold spell in May well after I warm them up and get them going again in March or early April. The heat lamps in their night boxes get them through these cold spells, and then I shut them off of the rest of the year. I can also adjust the ambient in the night boxes. This allows me to let them have their night time cool down, but not begin hibernating prematurely due to cold weather or freezing nights. I keep their night temps in the low 60s until I'm ready for them to hibernate.


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## Tom (Nov 28, 2019)

KarenSoCal said:


> @Tom
> 
> Thank you, Tom. My experience with my 4.2 cu ft fridge has been a good one. I load it with stuff for the stability, and it stays at 46-48 deg. This is its 3rd winter.
> 
> But if he grows like he did last spring, I'm going to have to shop for a new one.


I'm am glad it is working for you guys!

Used fridges can usually be found pretty cheap on craigslist, when the time comes.


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## Tanyabobanya (Nov 28, 2019)

Thank you both.. and happy thanksgiving! I ended up getting a beverage cooler with a glass door and digital thermometer. The temp range goes below 50 so hopefully this works. Tom after reading your reply I’m worried I mess up. First I’m not sure how long they haven’t water, but it feels about 2 weeks. I thought keeping them cold was the thing to do so I haven’t been using their heat emitters. It doesn’t get colder than say 65 indoors and the day is a little warmer. Yesterday they both stayed in their caves and didn’t budge. After reading your advice I put their heat lamps on and soaked them in warm but cooler than usual water. I haven’t seen any going pee or poo in their Indoor enclosures which is here they’ve been yesterday to now because it’s raining. Free, the more active one was looking around for food. Dribble seemed annoyed. Should I keep them up but warm for a couple days while I run the fridge? I’m so nervous about it. Thanksgiving f starting here soon and I just want to be confident about them.


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## KarenSoCal (Nov 28, 2019)

If it was me, I would:
1. Put bright light on them for about 8 hrs/day
2. Leave them in their indoor enclosure.
3. Add no heat (lamps or CHE)
4. Continue soaks in cooler than normal water, until beverage cooler is for sure loaded with stuff and maintaining proper temp. Put a remote thermometer in there...don't trust the built in thermometer. Stop soaking 1-2 days before putting them in (you want them absolutely dry.)

My thinking is that if it doesn't go below 65, and maybe a bit warmer by day, adding light will encourage them to come out and walk around. And no added heat...you don't want to yoyo their temp up & down. Steady temp is needed.

The only other problem is that if they are at 65 deg, and your cooler is at approximately 48, that's too big a drop to do suddenly. Maybe while you are testing your cooler, try putting it at 60 (if it works that warm.) Put them in at 60, and slowly drop the temp to 48 over a week or 10 days.

This is what I think I would do, but I'll tag @Tom to verify my plan. He knows all of this so much better than me.


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## Tom (Nov 29, 2019)

Tanyabobanya said:


> Thank you both.. and happy thanksgiving! I ended up getting a beverage cooler with a glass door and digital thermometer. The temp range goes below 50 so hopefully this works. Tom after reading your reply I’m worried I mess up. First I’m not sure how long they haven’t water, but it feels about 2 weeks. I thought keeping them cold was the thing to do so I haven’t been using their heat emitters. It doesn’t get colder than say 65 indoors and the day is a little warmer. Yesterday they both stayed in their caves and didn’t budge. After reading your advice I put their heat lamps on and soaked them in warm but cooler than usual water. I haven’t seen any going pee or poo in their Indoor enclosures which is here they’ve been yesterday to now because it’s raining. Free, the more active one was looking around for food. Dribble seemed annoyed. Should I keep them up but warm for a couple days while I run the fridge? I’m so nervous about it. Thanksgiving f starting here soon and I just want to be confident about them.


I would do everything that Karen just said, except that I _would _give them some heat during the day. The warmth will help them pass any remaining food through their gut before it gets and stays cold.


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## Tanyabobanya (Nov 29, 2019)

Thank you! The more active one (Free) is wanting to get out of his indoor enclosure, after trying to climb out of sink, but did drink water, and looking for food now. The other (Dribble) is soaking and I haven’t noticed any drinking or movement. The sun just came out but it’s in the 50’s outside. Do I let them roam outdoors and beg them to go to bathroom or is it too cold? I’m afraid I’m starving them because I can’t remember the exact date I stopped feeding them. But it’s most likely around 2 weeks. The photo is of Free in his inside house.


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## KarenSoCal (Nov 29, 2019)

Tanyabobanya said:


> Thank you! The more active one (Free) is wanting to get out of his indoor enclosure, after trying to climb out of sink, but did drink water, and looking for food now. The other (Dribble) is soaking and I haven’t noticed any drinking or movement. The sun just came out but it’s in the 50’s outside. Do I let them roam outdoors and beg them to go to bathroom or is it too cold? I’m afraid I’m starving them because I can’t remember the exact date I stopped feeding them. But it’s most likely around 2 weeks. The photo is of Free in his inside house.


Keep them inside until spring.
They are getting plenty of exercise trying to get out of their houses. That will help stuff "move".
You are not starving them. In the wild, as plants and grasses die off in colder weather, DT's will, on their own, stop eating and then clear their guts before settling in for the winter. They know when to do this.

We get into difficulty because our torts don't have all the options they need to do this. We limit the length, depth, number, and direction of their burrows. We may not supply exactly the proper food, at the proper time. We guess at when their guts are empty (there might be one more poop in there, right?) We love them dearly, but we just don't get it all perfect.

Please, stop fretting. Do what Tom and I said in posts 14 and 15. After fasting for approximately 2 weeks, which they have already done, when there is no poop for a couple days, they are ready. Get familiar with your beverage cooler, how warm will it operate, how cold, and is the thermostat accurate.

When you've done that, it will be time. I'm estimating Monday or Tuesday...stop soaking Saturday or Sunday, but leave a drinking dish of water.

I truly believe they will be fine. You will have done all you can to ensure that. And next year, the process WILL be easier!


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## Tanyabobanya (Dec 1, 2019)

Just to be clear in my head- no heat, Che, or uv light while I’m waiting to see if they Poo and fridge temp is good? Thank you for this support it’s exactly what I needed


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## KarenSoCal (Dec 1, 2019)

Tanyabobanya said:


> Just to be clear in my head- no heat, Che, or uv light while I’m waiting to see if they Poo and fridge temp is good? Thank you for this support it’s exactly what I needed


Give them some added heat with the CHE for about 8 hours during the day, then turn it off at night. If you can get it to 80deg, at least for a couple hours, that would be great. While the CHE is on, give them some extra light. Make it bright for a few hours. Then turn it off at night.

Is your fridge working well for you? Easy to regulate and accurate?


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## Tom (Dec 1, 2019)

Tanyabobanya said:


> Just to be clear in my head- no heat, Che, or uv light while I’m waiting to see if they Poo and fridge temp is good? Thank you for this support it’s exactly what I needed


Along with what Karen said, they need some heat and light to function and empty their gut. If it is cold and dark, their GI tract won't function and whatever is in there will stay in there. I give them about two weeks of heat and light after I stop feeding them, along with daily soaks, and then I spend another two weeks reducing temps and light duration to hibernation levels.


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## Tanyabobanya (Dec 1, 2019)

KarenSoCal said:


> Give them some added heat with the CHE for about 8 hours during the day, then turn it off at night. If you can get it to 80deg, at least for a couple hours, that would be great. While the CHE is on, give them some extra light. Make it bright for a few hours. Then turn it off at night.
> 
> Is your fridge working well for you? Easy to regulate and accurate?




Oh right.. you said that already! I’m frazzled. I haven’t had a chance to plug the fridge in. Husband just left town and it’s heavy‍. I’ve had it 3 days. Ugh. I’m going to get a friend tomorrow to help or lug it out of the box tonight. I didn’t give them enough heat today. Soaked though. They are tired.


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