# Do redfoots hibernate?



## Blgreek08 (Aug 31, 2013)

If so should I or should I just leave it. I didn't plan on doing it but if I should let me know

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## mainey34 (Aug 31, 2013)

No, redfoots do not hibernate...what are you asking? Should you or should you do what? Please explain...


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## Tom (Aug 31, 2013)

The RF experts should chime in here about what happens in the wild for all parts of their range, but to my knowledge nobody hibernates any of them in captivity.


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## Blgreek08 (Aug 31, 2013)

Ok good. I was hoping not and thinking not cause they are Forrest tortoises in warmer climate areas

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## mainey34 (Aug 31, 2013)

What is going on? How old is your redfoot?


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## Blgreek08 (Aug 31, 2013)

I thought 8.5 but got info from company finally at 6.5months old. And nothing is going on. I was just wondering for future purposes. All is good 
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## mainey34 (Aug 31, 2013)

Ok, good to know...glad you are asking questions.....keep them coming.....


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## Madkins007 (Aug 31, 2013)

SOME people (like Richard Cary Paull) suggest that SOME red-footed tortoises in parts of the very southern part of the range MAY hibernate (brumate is the proper term for this) when it is cold enough for loing enough, but most experts think they just hide in deep burrows and sleep it off. 

In captivity there is no reason to brumate them- no health benefits, no reproductive benefits, etc. and in fact, since it is very easy for animals we 'artificially' brumate to die, there is a good reason to not even try it.


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## Jabuticaba (Aug 31, 2013)

I'm from the Amazon Basin. It never gets cool enough for torts to hibernate. We rarely get temps below 25Â°C, without humidity. And humidity is rarely ever below 50. As a matter of fact, I don't believe we have any animals that do hibernate.


May[CHERRY BLOSSOM], Hermann's [TURTLE][TURTLE] & Aussie [DOG FACE][DOG FACE][DOG FACE] (@YWG)


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## FLINTUS (Sep 1, 2013)

I presume you've been looking at my comments in the leopard thread and some comments on another forum.
There is strong evidence, to suggest that reds do hibernate in small ranges, mainly the mountainous, southern habitats which also stay drier and generally colder. Your common, Northern red foot would be highly unlikely to hibernate for the most part, as temps stay too warm, but there are believed to be some extremely small ranges where there are exceptions. The Amazon Basin is for the most part not where reds actually are as they favour more savannah areas, but you are right, the temps would never get low enough there. There are a few keepers in the states I believe that do hibernate them over winter, and there is now quite a lot in southern Europe countries such as Italy and eastern European countries like Poland experimenting with it with success, but this is an extremely careful and controlled hibernation. It is a similar thing to what happens with the non S.African hingebacks-the S.Africans and Namibians do truly hibernate I believe- in parts of their ranges they may do the same thing. Unless you are 100% sure of where you red foot came from, and an experienced keeper I would not attempt it. It -from what we know at least- does not provide any health benefits, unlike hibernation of graeca or hermanni.


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## Blgreek08 (Sep 1, 2013)

Actually flint it is just something that popped into my head 

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## AnnV (Sep 1, 2013)

One of the reasons I got redfoots. I did not want to have to worry about a hibernating species. Everything I read prior to choosing a species for myself said that NOT hibernating a hibernating species could be detrimental to their health. 

Ann from CT


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## Terry Allan Hall (Sep 1, 2013)

FLINTUS said:


> I presume you've been looking at my comments in the leopard thread and some comments on another forum.
> There is strong evidence, to suggest that reds do hibernate in small ranges, mainly the mountainous, southern habitats which also stay drier and generally colder. Your common, Northern red foot would be highly unlikely to hibernate for the most part, as temps stay too warm, but there are believed to be some extremely small ranges where there are exceptions. The Amazon Basin is for the most part not where reds actually are as they favour more savannah areas, but you are right, the temps would never get low enough there. There are a few keepers in the states I believe that do hibernate them over winter, and there is now quite a lot in southern Europe countries such as Italy and eastern European countries like Poland experimenting with it with success, but this is an extremely careful and controlled hibernation. It is a similar thing to what happens with the non S.African hingebacks-the S.Africans and Namibians do truly hibernate I believe- in parts of their ranges they may do the same thing. Unless you are 100% sure of where you red foot came from, and an experienced keeper I would not attempt it. It -from what we know at least- does not provide any health benefits, unlike hibernation of graeca or hermanni.





AnnV said:


> One of the reasons I got redfoots. I did not want to have to worry about a hibernating species. Everything I read prior to choosing a species for myself said that NOT hibernating a hibernating species could be detrimental to their health.
> 
> Ann from CT


No health benefit for European tortoises, either, and some brumated tortoises are lost every year.

Artificial brumation is more for the convenience of the keeper, quite a bit of the time (don't have house or feed them).

Many of us European tortoise fans never brumate and our pets are perfectly healthy kept awake and fed over winter.


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## AnnV (Sep 1, 2013)

*Re: RE: Do redfoots hibernate?*



Terry Allan Hall said:


> FLINTUS said:
> 
> 
> > I presume you've been looking at my comments in the leopard thread and some comments on another forum.
> ...



Oh, that is good to know. 
I read these things when I was researching and it affected my decision. I did also read that it was dangerous if not done just right. Which scared me off.

Ann from CT


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## FLINTUS (Sep 1, 2013)

While it is possible to keep European tortoises up, most keepers I know seem to agree that it is beneficial for health as it creates a more natural cycle. One of the main problems with not hibernating appears to be that the tortoises become overfed. Take horsfields for example, the reason we see so many deformed ones in captivity is because in the wild they only eat for 3-4 months throughout the whole year, not the whole year round. Their bodies have not adapted to this. Anyway, European tortoises wasn't the subject anyway, and the hibernation idea on them always seems to turn into a big debate on here.


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## Terry Allan Hall (Sep 1, 2013)

AnnV said:


> Terry Allan Hall said:
> 
> 
> > AnnV said:
> ...



A lot of info in even some of the more recently published tortoise books is alarmingly out of date, but the fact that it's very dangerous, if not done absolutely correctly, is true. 

And, even if done absolutely "correctly", some tortoises simply do not wake up from brumation, in captivity AND in the wild.

One of the most tragic instances was when a well-meaning member of a herp society I belong to convinced a fellow member, who'd had a pet Greek for over 20 years, to brumate her out in the garage, in a box full of leaves (a common method). When she went to waken Matilda, she found that a rat had gotten there first. 

In almost 40 years of tortoise-keeping, I've never lost one, or even had one get sick, from not being brumated.




FLINTUS said:


> While it is possible to keep European tortoises up, most keepers I know seem to agree that it is beneficial for health as it creates a more natural cycle. *One of the main problems with not hibernating appears to be that the tortoises become overfed. Take horsfields for example, the reason we see so many deformed ones in captivity is because in the wild they only eat for 3-4 months throughout the whole year, not the whole year round.* Their bodies have not adapted to this. Anyway, European tortoises wasn't the subject anyway, and the hibernation idea on them always seems to turn into a big debate on here.



Feed them a bit less and allow them the opportunity to get exercise, same as us mammals. A digital scale really comes in handy for keeping track of such details.


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## Madkins007 (Sep 1, 2013)

Jabuticaba said:


> I'm from the Amazon Basin. It never gets cool enough for torts to hibernate. We rarely get temps below 25Â°C, without humidity. And humidity is rarely ever below 50. As a matter of fact, I don't believe we have any animals that do hibernate.
> 
> 
> May[CHERRY BLOSSOM], Hermann's [TURTLE][TURTLE] & Aussie [DOG FACE][DOG FACE][DOG FACE] (@YWG)



It is perfectly true that the Amazon Basin (which is about the upper half of Brazil) never gets cold enough, but the red-foot range extends all the way down to southern Paraguay and northern Argentina, where it does get to close to, or even below freezing at some times. 

Range map link

Animals use dormancy (hibernation, brumation, aestivation, etc.) to avoid both bad weather and food shortages- which usually go together. In some of the southern areas of their range, red-footeds are known to aestivate in the hot dry weather when food is also scarce. It is not much of a stretch to believe that these populations can brumate if needed- but I am not aware of any actual hard proof of it.


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