# Reliable and durable pond/waterfall pump



## Sam&TillsTortugas (Jul 10, 2016)

Hello all, the next step in my ornate box turtle enclosure is to add some free flowing water. I have an 8' x 4' space to work with. I intend to make a small waterfall about 8 inches high that leads to a small stream about 4-6 inches wide and eventually to their pond with a 1 1/2' diameter. I want a pump to place at bottom I pond and redirect water back to top. I will still leave my torts lots of walking room so no worries there. 

Keep in mind none of this I built yet. 
I'm going to use pond liner with a layer of concrete on top and some spare rocks I have from our Rock wall we tore down. 

Hopefully someone with expeeience can help out 

What pump should i use?!? I want one that'll not be easily damaged by stuff like sand or feces. Help is greatly appreciated. I saw this one online?


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## Sam&TillsTortugas (Jul 10, 2016)

This is a 140 gph pump, would it work? Also I know nothing about these pumps.


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## ZEROPILOT (Jul 10, 2016)

Anything made by BECKET is the best quality in my experience....And I have a lot of experience with pond pumps.
Most have a diverter so that the flow can be adjusted and all have a superior wear and working lifespan.


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## ZEROPILOT (Jul 10, 2016)

I use Becket X5 systems in two of my newest ponds.
But any Becket pump with a pre-filter sponge will work. The pre-filter sponge will keep silt, etc from prematurely wearing out the impeller area.


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## Sam&TillsTortugas (Jul 10, 2016)

ZEROPILOT said:


> I use Becket X5 systems in two of my newest ponds.
> But any Becket pump with a pre-filter sponge will work. The pre-filter sponge will keep silt, etc from prematurely wearing out the impeller area.



Very nice I hadn't seen or heard of that brand yet, I'm about to search a few. Do you have the pump protected with some sort of cover or can your turtles go right up to it? 
This forum is coming in handy already, thanks!


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## theguy67 (Jul 10, 2016)

Sam&TillsTortugas said:


> This is a 140 gph pump, would it work? Also I know nothing about these pumps.




You will probably want more than 140gph. Your stream/waterfall/pond system sounds small, but I would go bigger on the pump size, and just turn down the flow to the desired rate. I use a Deep Blue Triton pump, 1300gph for my stream, which is 6-10ish inches wide, few inches deep. Pond is 3-4 feet in diameter.

Only issue with my triton pump is the impeller shaft has broken twice. Even though it is ceramic, the shaft would get stuck for some reason. Luckily, after I replaced it, it snapped again, but in such a way that now it works and never gets stuck. No matter what kind you get, make sure you have a box for it to prevent large debris from entering the intake. Turtles/Tortoises tend to track "stuff" in frequently.


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## Sam&TillsTortugas (Jul 10, 2016)

theguy67 said:


> You will probably want more than 140gph. Your stream/waterfall/pond system sounds small, but I would go bigger on the pump size, and just turn down the flow to the desired rate. I use a Deep Blue Triton pump, 1300gph for my stream, which is 6-10ish inches wide, few inches deep. Pond is 3-4 feet in diameter.
> 
> Only issue with my triton pump is the impeller shaft has broken twice. Even though it is ceramic, the shaft would get stuck for some reason. Luckily, after I replaced it, it snapped again, but in such a way that now it works and never gets stuck. No matter what kind you get, make sure you have a box for it to prevent large debris from entering the intake. Turtles/Tortoises tend to track "stuff" in frequently.



I see what you're saying about going bigger, but how much bigger would you suggest? In the 1000's? Or doubling up to say 300 gph.

And thanks I will find something to put it into with small holes once I install whichever one I decide on.


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## theguy67 (Jul 10, 2016)

Sam&TillsTortugas said:


> I see what you're saying about going bigger, but how much bigger would you suggest? In the 1000's? Or doubling up to say 300 gph.
> 
> And thanks I will find something to put it into with small holes once I install whichever one I decide on.




If the max width of the stream will be around 6, I would think you wouldn't want to go over 1000gph. My enclosure is quite large, with the stream being 15 feet long. I have certain parts that are wide, and others that are narrow. Same with depth (deep and shallow areas) to simulate different water movements. If you did get a pump ratted at 1000gph you can always cut it back with a valve, or divert the water to a secondary feature. 

Here is a Waterfall pump "calculator", to give you an idea. However, they are mostly dealing with larger systems. You may also want to read different recommendations from other sources. I used the first link when I was sizing my pond, but I am not sure how "accurate" the suggested method truly is, as every system will be different. 

http://www.your-garden-ponds-center.com/waterfall-pump-calculator.html

http://www.gardensite.co.uk/blog/faqs/calculating-waterfall-pump-flow-rates


Also, I would suggest looking at many different garden ponds for ideas. There are few true, natural looking garden streams for inspiration, at least from my experience looking, Most of the garden "streams" I've seen are not very deep, barely an inch with large rocks taking up most of the room. but many pond and waterfall ideas will be available. If you want a long stream that has several drop offs, you may need to bring in dirt to adjust the incline of the terrain before you begin. Also, you may want to dig it deeper than you think it should be, then fill the rest in with rock/gravel to give you more room for manipulating the stream/pond itself. This will also give you a deeper media for planting. One big issue that is often faced when playing with flowing water is the increase of water loss. This can happen by leaking, splashing, and wicking. When you cut your liner, make sure you leave several inches of excess between the water line and the edge of the plastic. This excess can be covered with gravel/rock and then mulched on top. It may be difficult to see before water is added, but ensuring the liner's "edges" are level with respect to each other is another crucial element with pond making. 

My stream is located here >>> http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/redfoot-enclosure-update.126407/

As you can see in the first page, I cut my liner too close to the water, however, I did back fill some after filling with water for the first time. I do lose quite a bit of water from splashing, and wicking, (and the occasional leak or 2), but I think my biggest issue is evaporation, as I have my water spread out quite a bit for a pond with such a small water volume. With the stream and shallow pond, my water's surface area is maximized, so I have to add water everyday. Also from viewing my first pic, you can see that I did not bring any dirt in before. I sorta wish that I did, as my initial plan was to have 2-3 drop offs.Without the slope require to do this, I am forced to take it into a different direction. This doesn't mean my stream is inferior to what it could have been, but the initial idea had to change. I am now going for a creek look as I am slowly raising the land around the stream.


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## Markw84 (Jul 10, 2016)

How tall is your waterfall? The problem with most pumps is the rating you see is max "no head" rating. It puts out quite a different flow as soon as you start lifting water and height at all. Most 300 GPH pumps will barely provide a trickle at 5' of lift, and even at 2'-3' flow will be half of what they say. Your pipe and every bend creates additional head. Real rough figures I use:

The calculator reference just above is pretty good. I always used a rough rule I thumb - I want 100 GPH for every 1" of width of the water as it begins to enter the waterfall to get a depth there of 1/2". For example I have a 30" wide waterfall and wanted about 1" depth as the water started to fall over the waterfall. That meant I needed a 6000 GPH pump. Remember - that is GPH at the waterfall. So you have to consider the head the pump has to work against. Again the calculator above work well for that.

Bottom line. No way a 140 GPH pump will give you anything you would be happy with. In fact, the very small pumps like that are not even usually rated at different head heights as they are not meant to lift water. REAL ROUGH GUESS... If you have about a 6" waterfall a 1/2" depth will give you a decent look. That would require 600 GPH at the waterfall. A 1000 GPH pump would probably come close to that if your waterfall is somewhere around 2'-3' high and normal plumbing run without too many bends.


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## ZEROPILOT (Jul 10, 2016)

I use 500 GPH rated pumps at no lift and surface agitation. No fountain.
I have spares that are 600 GPH and I turn them down for use.


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## Sam&TillsTortugas (Jul 10, 2016)

theguy67 said:


> If the max width of the stream will be around 6, I would think you wouldn't want to go over 1000gph. My enclosure is quite large, with the stream being 15 feet long. I have certain parts that are wide, and others that are narrow. Same with depth (deep and shallow areas) to simulate different water movements. If you did get a pump ratted at 1000gph you can always cut it back with a valve, or divert the water to a secondary feature.
> 
> Here is a Waterfall pump "calculator", to give you an idea. However, they are mostly dealing with larger systems. You may also want to read different recommendations from other sources. I used the first link when I was sizing my pond, but I am not sure how "accurate" the suggested method truly is, as every system will be different.
> 
> ...



You've got quite a stream there and a nice space. It's very inspirational. My stream is going to be a fragment of that size, Literally. Thanks for putting real time into your answer I appreciate that. I just visited the first site you linked in and think I've narrowed it down. I'm still not ready to make any purchases as further research is needed. I think I reread your reply about 5 times. I've also been looking at natural ponds, I see alot for red eared sliders. 

Anyway, I'm going to shoot for 600 gph.


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## Sam&TillsTortugas (Jul 10, 2016)

Markw84 said:


> How tall is your waterfall? The problem with most pumps is the rating you see is max "no head" rating. It puts out quite a different flow as soon as you start lifting water and height at all. Most 300 GPH pumps will barely provide a trickle at 5' of lift, and even at 2'-3' flow will be half of what they say. Your pipe and every bend creates additional head. Real rough figures I use:
> 
> The calculator reference just above is pretty good. I always used a rough rule I thumb - I want 100 GPH for every 1" of width of the water as it begins to enter the waterfall to get a depth there of 1/2". For example I have a 30" wide waterfall and wanted about 1" depth as the water started to fall over the waterfall. That meant I needed a 6000 GPH pump. Remember - that is GPH at the waterfall. So you have to consider the head the pump has to work against. Again the calculator above work well for that.
> 
> Bottom line. No way a 140 GPH pump will give you anything you would be happy with. In fact, the very small pumps like that are not even usually rated at different head heights as they are not meant to lift water. REAL ROUGH GUESS... If you have about a 6" waterfall a 1/2" depth will give you a decent look. That would require 600 GPH at the waterfall. A 1000 GPH pump would probably come close to that if your waterfall is somewhere around 2'-3' high and normal plumbing run without too many bends.



I intend to keep the flow from the waterfall to the base of the stream less than 2 feet high, because my enclosure is only 2 1/2 feet tall. Probably not even at that. And I understand what you are saying about the pumps decreasing after lift. So i figure I'll get a pump that can clear whatever I need at half of its potential, if that makes sense. Thanks a lot for the feedback!!


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## Sam&TillsTortugas (Jul 10, 2016)

ZEROPILOT said:


> I use 500 GPH rated pumps at no lift and surface agitation. No fountain.
> I have spares that are 600 GPH and I turn them down for use.



I think I'll get that 600 gph then


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