# Breeding



## Luke52 (Apr 17, 2018)

i was so close to little babies the male was doing his thing but the girl wanted none of it she pooped on him 4 times and ran I don’t think he’s tried again but I really want him to. Is there anything I did wrong?


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## Yvonne G (Apr 17, 2018)

Are we talking Russians (like I see in your avatar)?

When the female is ready, and when the male is aggressive enough, the deed will get done. You just have to wait and let them do their thing. In the meantime, they need to be in a large space, preferable outside, with a nice area for the female to dig a nest.


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## Luke52 (Apr 18, 2018)

Thanks they are in a hugeeee space and yes Russians and I have a box with soft coconut fiber if I see she’s trying to lay eggs


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## Luke52 (Apr 18, 2018)

I’ve added another green house to the left also


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## Luke52 (Apr 18, 2018)

Question... does the female ever really want to breed or is she just forced to by the male


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## NorCal tortoise guy (Apr 18, 2018)

Males are always ready way sooner the females just give it time


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## Luke52 (Apr 18, 2018)

Ok thank you


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## wellington (Apr 18, 2018)

How big is the actual enclosure? One Russian needs a 4x8 foot. They should never be kept in pairs and only put together too breed unless they are actually in a huge, like a bedroom size or bigger enclosure with lots of sight barriers, hides, feeding and water stations. Russians are one of the scrappiest torts. Your male will bug your female too illness or death trying too breed if she is the only one.


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## Luke52 (Apr 18, 2018)

wellington said:


> How big is the actual enclosure? One Russian needs a 4x8 foot. They should never be kept in pairs and only put together too breed unless they are actually in a huge, like a bedroom size or bigger enclosure with lots of sight barriers, hides, feeding and water stations. Russians are one of the scrappiest torts. Your male will bug your female too illness or death trying too breed if she is the only one.


I am going to separate them when I see fighting I have a 4x10 foot I really want them to breed so far I haven’t seen any fighting


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## Markw84 (Apr 18, 2018)

Luke52 said:


> Question... does the female ever really want to breed or is she just forced to by the male


She has to "want to". If a female tortoise does not want something in her cloaca, there is nothing going in there! The male is normally much more interested in mating than the female. He has to get her receptive. The mating activity we see as aggressive is actually evolved to be pretty specific by species to get the female to accept the activity. Ramming, biting, chasing, mounting, all need to add up to what releases the hormones in the female to be receptive and "loosen up"!! These actions are sometimes so specific by species it is indeed a barrier in itself to cross-breeding.

Some tortoises can be hard to get to breed successfully. Some species are notoriously difficult. They have to be low in stress and feel healthy and comfortable in their surroundings for things to work. The better the health, the diet, and the more natural the environment - the better the chances. Male to female ratios, type of substrate, diet availability, hides and natural plant hides, UV and lighting levels, photo period, etc, etc, can all contribute to success.


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## wellington (Apr 18, 2018)

Luke52 said:


> I am going to separate them when I see fighting I have a 4x10 foot I really want them to breed so far I haven’t seen any fighting


You won't always see fighting. It will be bullying. Not letting the other have food or water or a basking spot, etc. it's not always an obvious fight. It could just be the fact that they are together that will stress them out. There are all kinds of threads of why tortoises should not be kept in pairs. A 4x10 is not big enough when a 4x8 is the minimum for one Russian. Your female may be too stresssed to want too breed. Making it bigger and safer for her may help you get to the breeding faster. The water dishes look too small also. The one with the ramp is a tipping hazard and not recommended and they both look too small for the tort to get its whole body in and soak if they want too.


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## Luke52 (Apr 18, 2018)

Wow thanks I will keep all that in mind


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## Luke52 (Apr 18, 2018)

wellington said:


> You won't always see fighting. It will be bullying. Not letting the other have food or water or a basking spot, etc. it's not always an obvious fight. It could just be the fact that they are together that will stress them out. There are all kinds of threads of why tortoises should not be kept in pairs. A 4x10 is not big enough when a 4x8 is the minimum for one Russian. Your female may be too stresssed to want too breed. Making it bigger and safer for her may help you get to the breeding faster. The water dishes look too small also. The one with the ramp is a tipping hazard and not recommended and they both look too small for the tort to get its whole body in and soak if they want too.


I fill their water bowls every day and feed them separately I’ve never seen an obvious sign of aggression probably because the boy is so lazy and is always hiding where as the girl likes to “explore” around and bask


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## Luke52 (Apr 18, 2018)

Keep in mind I will be separating them


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## wellington (Apr 18, 2018)

Luke52 said:


> I fill their water bowls every day and feed them separately I’ve never seen an obvious sign of aggression probably because the boy is so lazy and is always hiding where as the girl likes to “explore” around and bask


The bowls are too small, not that you don't fill them. They should be big enough for their whole body to fit into. Not to the top of their shells but the whole width around. 
Keep in mind though. You want them too breed. Between Marks post and mine, if the female is stressed it won't work out well. If you can't make it bigger, try adding more sight barriers. The big pot, pull it out of the corner if they cant hide behind it. Add more things so they can't look down the way and always see the other. Sometimes it has helped others too separate them for a few days to a week or so and then put them back together. Just trying to help you get what you want.


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## Tom (Apr 18, 2018)

4x10 is actually very small for an outdoor Russian enclosure. 30x30 would be a good size in my opinion.
They should never be kept as a pair. If you want more than one in an enclosure, I would do 3 females and one male. Since you'd have to wait at least 3-6 months for quarantine to do that, separating them ASAP is the way to go. Just put her in the male's enclosure once or twice a week for the day in spring or fall, and then separate them.
Russians are tricky breeders. Some people do everything right for years and get nothing. Other people do it seemingly "wrong" and get results right away. No way to predict it. Usually they settle down in time if left alone. Might take 5 or 6 years or it could happen in fall.
Those ramped water bowls are a flipping/drowning hazard. Use some 10" terra cotta plant saucers sunk into the ground instead.
If you want to house them that way in AZ, they are going to need an underground retreat for the scorching heat of your summers.


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## Luke52 (Apr 18, 2018)

I’ve read this on a website


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## Luke52 (Apr 18, 2018)

For one


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## TechnoCheese (Apr 18, 2018)

Luke52 said:


> For one



That’s absolutely not true. That size enclosure is good for a hatchling or a yearling, not and adult. That’s why you should stick with the forum, and not outdated websites spreading decade old info.
These tortoises roam miles in the wild, and they need lots of space to properly exercise and digest food. With an enclosure that small, you’ll have a tortoise constantly pacing the walls, with weak muscles and overweight from lack of exercise.


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## Tom (Apr 18, 2018)

Luke52 said:


> View attachment 236394
> I’ve read this on a website


I can find a website that says martians live among us here on Earth. Or that eating 15 pomegranates a day will cure pancreatic cancer. Or that every computer in the world will crash on January 1st of 2000 and the whole world will fall into complete chaos.

Doesn't make any of it true.

Second point: 2x4 feet is larger than a 50 gallon terrarium. A 50 would be 18 inches by 48 inches. So this website where you found this is full of all sorts of incorrect info. Either a 2x4 or a 50 gallon tank will work well for starting a hatchling. Either is way too small for an adult.


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## Luke52 (Apr 18, 2018)

Tom said:


> I can find a website that says martians live among us here on Earth. Or that eating 15 pomegranates a day will cure pancreatic cancer. Or that every computer in the world will crash on January 1st of 2000 and the whole world will fall into complete chaos.
> 
> Doesn't make any of it true.
> 
> Second point: 2x4 feet is larger than a 50 gallon terrarium. A 50 would be 18 inches by 48 inches. So this website where you found this is full of all sorts of incorrect info. Either a 2x4 or a 50 gallon tank will work well for starting a hatchling. Either is way too small for an adult.


Lol that was a very good point thanks for all your guys help


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