# I hate tortoise forum



## dcwolfe (May 7, 2013)

Wo wo wo people before i get blown up, is it just me or dose anyone else feel tort envy every time they get on to the forum of all the smoothed shelled tortoises? Before the forum i had some fairly smooth tortoises(not as smooth as the ones now on the humid approach), but smooth none the less and now i feel like all bragging rights are gone. With the threads here they make it as easy as eating breakfast to raise a smooth tortoise. So for this i hate you tfo lol.


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## TommyZ (May 7, 2013)

Lmao...i came in ready for a fight when i saw the header, lol...i agree though, lotsa awesome folks here with tons of great info.


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## Blakem (May 7, 2013)

How dare you!!! Kidding, hoping to get a rise out of you. What kind of turtle/tortoise do you have? How long have you been reading he forum? I've never seen you post, so do you have any questions.

I recently posted a thread on my 13.5 month sulcata, because I did not find my Dexters shell smooth, but others said much differently. Here's dexter as of yesterday. 









Dexter looks perfect in the first image, but you can tell that theirs bumps on the second. Dexter is growing at a rap rate for the age. Is currently 1,020 grams.


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## wellington (May 7, 2013)

You sure got my attention. I was going to put you down to watch really close LOL. I hate that I can't have all the tortoises I see on here. I also hate I didn't find this forum before I found my tort. However, I really love this forum and that there are so many tortoise lovers out there and crazies like you


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## Blakem (May 7, 2013)

wellington said:


> so many tortoise lovers out there and crazies like you



Who you calling crazy, crazy!!! Kidding, we are all crazy in our own sense. Crazy for animals, I believe.


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## luvpetz27 (May 7, 2013)

You got my attention also!!!! Wow!


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## Jacqui (May 7, 2013)

I don't because I think we over rate smooth shells.


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## Yvonne G (May 7, 2013)

It's nice to see a tortoise with a fairly smooth shell, however, the slightly bumpy ones are cute too. And the terribly bumpy ones, the ones with bad MBD, well those are very near and dear to my heart!


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## Tom (May 7, 2013)

I suffer from the same tortoise envy...

Still, I love all the pics and success stories.


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## luvpetz27 (May 7, 2013)

Yvonne G said:


> It's nice to see a tortoise with a fairly smooth shell, however, the slightly bumpy ones are cute too. And the terribly bumpy ones, the ones with bad MBD, well those are very near and dear to my heart!



I totally agree with you. Those are the "special" and "precious" ones.


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## BeeBee*BeeLeaves (May 7, 2013)

Hahaha. Made us look. Good one! 

Smooth tortoises reflect the evolution of tortoise keeping thanks to the collective experiences of all these fine folks on this forum. Bumpy tortoises are awesome simply because they are imperfectly perfect. And hopefully tortoises in better care from wiser keepers will be okay from the didn't know better.

All good.


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## Chinque (May 7, 2013)

Okay, I came into this thread because I was probably gonna scream at you in all caps about how flippin amazing tfo is, but i do see your point. I, however suffer from a different tort envy; whenever I see people with like a billion tortoises who get to breed them and see the babies being hatched and have cool outdoor enclosures for them and stuff like that I get so jealous of them, because I want that for daisy (and me...  )...


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## AZtortMom (May 7, 2013)

LOL  you got my attention 


Life is good


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## N2TORTS (May 7, 2013)

THAT WAS GOOD! .....<heh> .....

But let me give you â€œpeaceâ€ of mindâ€¦..a few things to consider , most of the tortoises you see in here are no where near adults or shall I say â€¦ â€œaged adultsâ€ . Even with the best humidity and diet , there will be *to a degree* what some might call pyramiding 
( another issueâ€¦.how one defines pyramiding and to what degree) but sometimes this is merely what a 20+ year old tort looks like that is still growing! The next happy pillâ€¦.As true as it holds many â€œ wild caughtâ€ tortoises are very smooth , but as far as private collections there just isnâ€™t the same numbers and time frames to compare CB animals in this day and age( at least here in the USA) . Thus viewing those gorgeous â€œ slick ricksâ€ donâ€™t be too hard on yourself. And yes there a lot of very *special, knowledgeable folks in here... in all sorts of issues , and others who write so well â€¦..who would have thought tortoises would bring all these great minds and fun togetherâ€¦ eh?


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## terryo (May 7, 2013)

How old would a tortoise be before you can stop worrying about them pyramiding? Would 6 years old be considered full grown for a Cherry Head?


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## N2TORTS (May 7, 2013)

terryo said:


> How old would a tortoise be before you can stop worrying about them pyramiding? Would 6 years old be considered full grown for a Cherry Head?



Terry ..that is a youngster....some might consider " young adult" even with the so called clause of "CH" earlier maturity. .....Oscar and Queen Elizabeth ae both over 18 years and still growing ...I have hatchlings from 6 years ago that are a 1/3 of the size of the adult parents from which they came from . Especially when it comes to
"bulk" .


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## Tom (May 7, 2013)

terryo said:


> How old would a tortoise be before you can stop worrying about them pyramiding? Would 6 years old be considered full grown for a Cherry Head?



Terry K. told me that you can never stop worrying about it with a red foot. He said, (paraphrasing) if there is growth, there can be pyramiding.


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## dcwolfe (May 7, 2013)

Ya i have been with the forum for a little less than a year i believe. I have had a few dt's leopards Russians and sulcutas. Im an avid reader, i read enough posts a day that some times when i get on line there aren't any new ones. I do a little posting, but not a ton.


You do raise a good point. It is mostly juveniles and hatchlings on here that you see aren't pyramiding.


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## sibi (May 7, 2013)

I was hoping to read all the fighting that I was sure there would be. What a bummer No, really, the crazies are those who aren't members of this forum!


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## Tortus (May 8, 2013)

I'm still not exactly sure when you can stop worrying about pyramiding with a leopard. I've heard quite a few conflicting opinions/experiences. I've heard after 5 years, then someone came on here and said theirs didn't pyramid until it was 5. 

I think in another year or so I'll just stop worrying about it. Honestly, the thing I hate about this forum is it makes you worry about things you otherwise wouldn't have cared about. That's good I guess for the animal, but can be frustrating for some people, especially when it's too late....


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## dcwolfe (May 8, 2013)

This is soo true. The forum has opened my eyes to many things. I am glad that i dont have to worry about my tort pyramiding anymore with the methods here. I used to spend hours with my face smashed up against a terrarium wondering if my little companions were pyramiding.


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## Tortus (May 9, 2013)

Mine started out with a small amount on a couple scutes because I didn't have the humidity quite high enough at 55-70%, day and night. Or because the breeder started it out dry. But after raising, it's been smooth sailing. 

Worrying comes with joining any animal forum I've found. I know I'll worry about something and wind up spending more money. When I joined a dog forum a few years ago it was like I'd never owned a dog before. The same with fish and other reptiles. Felt so new. lol


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## GeoTerraTestudo (May 9, 2013)

Smooth shells are overrated. Sure, low humidity, poor diet, and inadequate light can all lead to pyramiding and other shell defects. However, some tortoise species naturally have a small degree of pyramiding, and I've seen tortoises in the wild with a little bit of pyramiding, too. You can tell when a shell is healthy, or for that matter, when the animal is healthy overall. If you have a healthy pet, there's nothing to be envious of ... except maybe nice enclosures and backyards!


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## Tortus (May 9, 2013)

GeoTerraTestudo said:


> Smooth shells are overrated.



I agree. You don't see many with perfectly round egg-smooth shells, especially leopards and stars. I've always liked just a little texture to the shell. Not the Swiss Alps or anything, although torts with extreme pyramiding shouldn't be thought any less of IMO.

I think pyramiding is the #1 issue that worries people on this forum. And they get so discouraged if their tort shows the smallest signs of it. But, again, that comes with the territory. Forums often make you feel inadequate in some way due to issues like this.


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## GeoTerraTestudo (May 9, 2013)

Tortus said:


> I agree. You don't see many with perfectly round egg-smooth shells, especially leopards and stars. I've always liked just a little texture to the shell. Not the Swiss Alps or anything, although torts with extreme pyramiding shouldn't be thought any less of IMO.



Yes, mild pyramiding is natural in some species. Extreme pyramiding is a skeletal disorder, though. If a tortoise with serious pyramiding were to get flipped onto his back, he would have a tougher time righting himself, and would be more likely to overheat and die. However, that doesn't mean you can't love that pet, or help him improve from then on.


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## Tom (May 9, 2013)

Its not a contest to see who can raise the smoothest tortoise. Its all about learning and everyone doing the best they can for their animals. No one should feel inadequate because of shell appearance. Someone SHOULD feel inadequate if they know how to take better care of their tortoise and choose not to.


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## Jacqui (May 9, 2013)

GeoTerraTestudo said:


> there's nothing to be envious of ... except maybe nice enclosures and backyards!



Exactly!!


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## dcwolfe (May 9, 2013)

Tom said:


> Its not a contest to see who can raise the smoothest tortoise. Its all about learning and everyone doing the best they can for their animals. No one should feel inadequate because of shell appearance. Someone SHOULD feel inadequate if they know how to take better care of their tortoise and choose not to.



Wait a second you mean there is no prize money for smooth shells. I had it wrong this whole time


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## Tortus (May 9, 2013)

Tom I agree with what you're saying. It just bothers me when I see some people get so beat up over mild pyramiding, even when they think they've done everything right. Or when they received the tort like that and don't get good results. 

It really does feel like a contest at times. When people rave over super-smooth torts. I think that's what makes some feel inadequate since it is such a hot topic. People have complimented me on mine which isn't perfectly smooth, but even I feel inadequate at times because it's not like an egg. lol


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## Team Gomberg (May 9, 2013)

*Re: RE: I hate tortoise forum*



Tom said:


> Its not a contest to see who can raise the smoothest tortoise. Its all about learning and everyone doing the best they can for their animals. No one should feel inadequate because of shell appearance. Someone SHOULD feel inadequate if they know how to take better care of their tortoise and choose not to.



Well put. 

Heather
sent while on my purple android TFOapp


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## Tom (May 9, 2013)

Tortus said:


> Tom I agree with what you're saying. It just bothers me when I see some people get so beat up over mild pyramiding, even when they think they've done everything right. Or when they received the tort like that and don't get good results.
> 
> It really does feel like a contest at times. When people rave over super-smooth torts. I think that's what makes some feel inadequate since it is such a hot topic. People have complimented me on mine which isn't perfectly smooth, but even I feel inadequate at times because it's not like an egg. lol



What do you think ought to be done about this? This is a tortoise forum. In the past few years, great strides have been made in the art of raising healthy, "natural" looking tortoises. People are proud of their accomplishments and want to share the good news with other like minded tortoise keepers. And rightfully so. I don't see the harm in that, and I don't see why anyone who is a victim of the "old" way should feel bad for their ignorance. I have some of the most grotesquely pyramided tortoises on this site. They were started all wrong and the advice I chose to follow many years ago left them stunted and pyramided. I did not know any better, and followed the advice of supposed "experts". I was ignorant. It does not upset me in any way when someone post pics of a smooth youngster. It does not make me feel sad, belittled, jealous, incompetent, or inadequate. Quite the contrary, it makes me VERY happy that at least some of the tortoise world has turned a corner and things are getting better "out there". Every new pic of a smooth tortoise literally thrills me despite the myriad mistakes I made in the past, or maybe BECAUSE of the mistakes I made in the past. I am so happy to see anyone and everyone who is NOT making those same mistakes. And I still post pics of my old tortoises from back in my old days. I'm not proud of their appearance, but they are healthy and I still love them.

I guess I'm going on and on about this because I don't want anyone to NOT post pics for fear of somehow hurting someone else's feelings. The more smooth tortoise pics the better. It should serve only to encourage others to strive for greatness. Man, if someone wins the championship, we should salute and praise them, not tell them to hush up because second or third place might get their feelings hurt. Second or third place should try harder next time, and then THEY will receive all the accolades a champion deserves. What I am saying is that one person's success and noteworthy accomplishments, should not injure the self esteem of someone else who, for whatever reason, did not quite make the grade yet.

It seems sensitivity is not my strong point...


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## Tortus (May 10, 2013)

I think you got me all wrong. Or I said something all wrong; it's been a long day. All I'm saying is that perfectionists can get a little bent out of shape when they notice a little pyramiding. I've talked to some in PM about it. 

I'm not saying don't post pics of smooth tortoises. I post pics of mine and I wouldn't consider it pyramided. That gives people inspiration on what to do next time or how to correct current pyramiding.


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## Tom (May 10, 2013)

Tortus said:


> I think you got me all wrong. Or I said something all wrong; it's been a long day. All I'm saying is that perfectionists can get a little bent out of shape when they notice a little pyramiding. I've talked to some in PM about it.
> 
> I'm not saying don't post pics of smooth tortoises. I post pics of mine and I wouldn't consider it pyramided. That gives people inspiration on what to do next time or how to correct current pyramiding.



Oh I see what you mean. You think some people are overly-critical about the state of other people's tortoise's shells sometimes. Gotcha. Well, I agree with you there. For me, it is sometimes a fine line between letting a new person know there is a problem, so they can fix it, and sounding overly harsh or critical. I find it terribly disheartening when a new person joins the forum and they've been following the typical dry and dehydrated advice. I totally understand how and why it happens, but it saddens me greatly none the less. I'm sure that comes across in my words sometimes. My goal is to help the person understand, but sadness for a mistake that can never be undone is hard for me to mask. I've made the same mistake myself, so I know all about it.


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## Tortus (May 11, 2013)

Yes, and even many long-time breeders are still doing things the dry way. The breeder I got mine from has some beautiful tortoises, but they always end up pyramided. I showed him pics of mine after turning 5 months old and he was amazed at how smooth it is. I explained my methods and recommended this forum so he could learn something.

Saying that may have offended him because he never responded. Not sure if he joined the forum or not.


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