# like some advice



## james (Aug 21, 2008)

i have had my ca desert tortoise since october of 2007. i have some questions and want to give you the specs for some advice. 
about Captain:
don't know the sex
just about a year old
eats mainly dandelion greens and chard, occasional corn, carrots, alfalpha sprouts, and 90% of the time i out a vitamin powder on the greens. 
always has fresh water
enclosure is 24"x24"
tank averages 88-92* during the day
at night it's about 85* 
i am using a ceramic heater on top for heat
the back half of the tank has a heating pad
18" reptisun 10.0 just put in today, had a 5.0 since october, just found out they only last 6 months  


some questions i have:
it is much darker around his mouth. but the inside looks perfect. is it just from the greens?
i'm switching his greens from a prepackaged mix i get at an organic store, to bulk that yo get off the middle floor from the same store. he hardly eats the new stuff. it's been about a week and no imrpovement. any suggestions? the ony thing i can use from the prepackaged mix is the dandelion greens and chard. so it's cheaper to buy it the other way.
during the day he has been spending more time inside his cave instead of walking around. any idea why?
i want to get a permit for him, but read that you shold be able to find out the sex first. is this true?
can you take a ca desert tortoise even if you don't have a permit for it?

thanks in advance!


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## Yvonne G (Aug 22, 2008)

Hi James: I'm not sure I understand the food question. By pre-packaged greens do you mean that you buy a package of mixed greens then pick out the chard and dandelion to feed him? There's no reason why you can't give him everything that comes in the package. He can and should eat it all. I use the pre-packaged mixture called Spring Mix. My tortoises eat everything in the package...even the spinach, which should not be fed too often. Young tortoises are more picky eaters than older ones, but try to feed him some grape leaves or mulberry leaves. You can buy a seed mixture from Turtlestuff.com called desert tortoise mix, and plant it someplace where you can either harvest it or allow him in it to graze. The mouth thing is from the dandelion greens. Also he might be eating his poop. Since you live in San Diego, I would turn off the heat source at night. Its perfectly natural for the temp. to cool down at night. It won't be harmful. I don't use the UV bulbs, so the only advice I can offer you on them is to be sure it isn't too close to the floor of the habitat. I think 10 or 12 inches is the optimum distance.

Yvonne


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## Laura (Aug 22, 2008)

can you take a ca desert tortoise even if you don't have a permit for it?

what did you mean by that question? 
You should Never take a tortoise from the wild. Touching them is even a crime. 
Many people have them without permits, but that doenst makeit right. I dont know what the penalties are for it. Might depend on where you got it and if they could prove it....
You can't sell them, and it is not recommended to breed them either. As captive breeding really doesnt help the species since they cant be released. Hopefully that will change someday...


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## Crazy1 (Aug 22, 2008)

james said:


> eats mainly dandelion greens and chard, occasional corn, carrots, alfalpha sprouts, and 90% of the time i out a vitamin powder on the greens.


Dandelion and chard are fine alfalpha sprouts are high in protein. Try the packaged spring mix or if you have a trader Joes try the Frazee, some squash grated, some micro greens, grasses cut up fine, plus the foods Yvonne has suggested. Cactus is always good and jade plants.


james said:


> enclosure is 24"x24"
> tank averages 88-92* during the day
> at night it's about 85*
> i am using a ceramic heater on top for heat
> ...


Square enclosures are harder to set up micro climates than rectangular ones. His daytime temps are fine. What is his basking temp? what is his humidity?
His night time temps should drop to no lower than 65F but a drop is good.
I would not use a heat pad. His heat should come from above. Perhaps place a piece of slate under his basking area to help warm him just make sure that the temp is about 90-95 on the slate.
Yeah the florescent UVB bulbs don't last long. I like the Mercury Vapor Bulbs. I think it better simulates sunlight and the bulb give UVB, UVA and heat all in one. And they last about a year. If Captain is using his hide more it may be he is too warm, or the light is too bright for him now. or he just feels more comfortable in his hide. What type and brand of light did you just put in?


james said:


> some questions i have:
> it is much darker around his mouth. but the inside looks perfect. is it just from the greens?


 Yep from the greens he is eating. I wouldn't worry.



james said:


> i want to get a permit for him, but read that you should be able to find out the sex first. is this true?
> can you take a ca desert tortoise even if you don't have a permit for it?


James you should be able to get a permit now from http://www.sdturtle.org/Desert Tortoise Permits.htm
I would contact them via phone or email and ask them what the requirements are. You could also contact your nearest chapter of the CTTC http://www.tortoise.org/cttc/cttcmore.html.

Hopes this helps and Good luck. Keep us informed.


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## james (Aug 22, 2008)

emysemys:
yes, the prepackaged food i'm talking about is the spring mix. i pick out the chard and dandelion greens, because it has romaine and and a couple other things that i read were not good for tortoises. i will try the grape leaves and teh seed mix you were talking about, thanks! i hope he's not eating his poop! i try to make sure i clean it out right when i see it. i will also turn off hte heat sources at night. it doesn't get cooler than 70 in my room. should i turn off the heat tonight, or slowly turn it down so it's not a schock to him? the uvb bulb is about 10" away from him.


Laura:
i was a little tierd when i posted this, so i forgot a HUGE part of that question. lol. what i meant to ask is, can you take the tortoise to the vet without having a permit for him. i would NEVER risk the tortoises healthy, or my healthy by touching a wild one, or moving a wild one. i got this one from a person who has a couple really old desert tortoises, and needed to get rid of a few. 

Crazy1:
i am looking into getting him a better variety as far as diet goes. i want to get him some cactus pads, but i can only find them at some mexican stores around town. i don't trust their standards when dealing with food, so i'd rather buy from a more reputable company. any suggestions? i'm not sure of the humidity, i will get a gauge and let you know. his basking temp is about 120*, too hot? i am going to lift the heater up a little bit. i just put in the reptisun 10.0 tube.


couple more questions...
is there a great vet that specializes in desert tortoises in san digeo area? i wouldn't mind having to drive a bit, i want the best for my little guy!

how old do they have to be to get the sex determined? 

should i look into adopting another tortoise his age/size so he can have a friend? i wonder if he gets bored.

i am looking into trading or just buying a new terrarium, 48x16x16, would this be good for a while?

i take him outside in a mesh terrarium. it's 72x36. he seems to spend most of his time in his hide, any ideas? i'll have to check the temps this weekend when i'm off, but it shouldn't be too hot. 

what kind of substrate is the best? i can't think of the name of the stuff i use, but you may be able to tell by the picture. 

the only light source he has is the uvb bulb, should i put a non heat emitting light in there?


THANK YOU so much for the info everyone. i love this little guy so much, and i'm always worried i'm doing something wrong.


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## Crazy1 (Aug 22, 2008)

james said:


> Crazy1:
> i am looking into getting him a better variety as far as diet goes. i want to get him some cactus pads, but i can only find them at some mexican stores around town. i don't trust their standards when dealing with food, so i'd rather buy from a more reputable company. any suggestions? i'm not sure of the humidity, i will get a gauge and let you know. his basking temp is about 120*, too hot? i am going to lift the heater up a little bit. i just put in the reptisun 10.0 tube.


Stater Brothers sells cactus both the pads and the pads cut up and despined in a bag. (really handy) They also sell cactus fruit. You tort can have romaine and other lettuces just not as the only diet. Try and use alfalfa, kale, broccoli sparingly. Here is a site that lists food for your DT. http://www.anapsid.org/tortdiet.html Basking temp should be about 95F so I would say 120f is too hot. You can lift the heater up until under his basking area it is about 95F Then check the rest of his enclosure to see what the temps are they should be about 85 daytime and down no lower than about 65 at night.



james said:


> couple more questions...
> is there a great vet that specializes in desert tortoises in san digeo area? i wouldn't mind having to drive a bit, i want the best for my little guy!


You will find a long list in San Diego county as well as the city proper at this site. http://www.tortoise.org/general/vetlist.html#SD
You should not need a permit to have your baby seen by a vet.



james said:


> how old do they have to be to get the sex determined?


Better than 5 years old.



james said:


> should i look into adopting another tortoise his age/size so he can have a friend? i wonder if he gets bored.


This is a tough question to answer. Tortoises are generally solitary animals. That being said I have 8 Greeks and 3 DTs.  When they are small they seem to do fine. If they are adult males seem to be territorial but if kept in a large enough area often do fine. So I really think this is an individual decision, sorry I donÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t think that answer really helped.



james said:


> i am looking into trading or just buying a new terrarium, 48x16x16, would this be good for a while?


Are you talking glass? I personally donÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t like glass it tends to hold in the heat and not distribute it as well as other materials plus the torts donÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t understand they canÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t go were they see and tend to stress if they can see out. Making a Tort table is easy and not expensive. You can get a plastic cement or grout mixing container (black) at Lowes large ones are about $12.00 small ones about $6.00 I found at home depot. I love the large ones. Or you can make it out of something like an old dresser drawer for a small tort. I like rectangular not square. Square tables are hard to set up microclimates. An under bed Rubbermaid type tote is also a good choice. During the summer of course outside is the best as long as they are secure from predators, ground, flying, and 2 legged type. I bring mine in at night. To keep the night time predators away. 



james said:


> i take him outside in a mesh terrarium. it's 72x36. he seems to spend most of his time in his hide, any ideas? i'll have to check the temps this weekend when i'm off, but it shouldn't be too hot.


 Little torts think they are pray and have an instinct built in to stay hidden. That is probably what it is doing playing it safe. If he is in the sun light all the time he may be getting too hot.



james said:


> what kind of substrate is the best? i can't think of the name of the stuff i use, but you may be able to tell by the picture.


Lots of substrates are fine. Soil and sand mixture about 70% dirt 30% sand. Shredded Aspen works fine (donÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t use pine or ceder). Some people like turtle carpet (they just canÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t dig into it and hide) I personally have my hatchling Greeks on shredded aspen and love it. It is light weight, easy to clean and not expensive, and they seem to love to burrow into it.



james said:


> the only light source he has is the uvb bulb, should i put a non heat emitting light in there?


I would raise the light to about 14 inches at least. If you are using the florescent tube UVB lamp it is non heat emitting. The bulbs that emit heat are the infared heat bulb, regular light bulbs or MVB (Mercury Vapor Bulbs) which give you UVB, UVA and heat all in one bulb. This is the bulb I use. You can not have UVB go through anything like screen or glass as it loses most of the UVB that the tort needs.


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## james (Aug 22, 2008)

i'll check out stater bros tonight, thanks for the heads up! i know the uvb bulb doesn't emit heat, i was wondering if i should add another light source to brighten in up a bit. one that also doen't emit any kind of heat. 

yes i was talking about glass, but i'll check out homedeopt this weekend and see what i can come up with. i'm also going to play around with the heat a bit and get it right. do you think i should make all heat changes asap, or slowly adapt him to it? i don't wait to stress him out. 

when i first put him outside, he would run around. actually run! it was so funny. but now he goes right into his hide. i'll check the temps, and see whats up. one third of his outdoor setup is shaded.


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