# Desert Tort & Sulcatta Tort?



## macdeezy (Apr 16, 2012)

I have a quick question! 
I am fostering a Desert Tort and was wondering if it would be ok to put him in the same outdoor enclosure with my Sulcatta Tort??


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## Yvonne G (Apr 16, 2012)

Far as I'm concerned...deffinitely NOT!!! I've taken in quite a few sick desert tortoises and after pulling the story out of the people bringing them to me (different people at different times), come to find out they liked their desert tortoise so much they decided to get another tortoise. Not being able to find another desert tortoise, they bought a sulcata. End result, sick desert tortoise, too cheap to take to vet, give to the rescue.

Some people mix species with no apparent trouble or problems, however, I don't think its worth the risk, and I'd NEVER do it.


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## MikeCow1 (Apr 16, 2012)

Lots of people are vehemently opposes to keeping two different species together. However, I kept my desert torts and sulcatta together for years. Make sure that desert your fostering doesn't have any respiratory issues though


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## JoesMum (Apr 16, 2012)

*RE: Desert Tort & Sulcatta Tort?*

Regardless of species any new tort must be kept in quarantine entirely separately for several months before introduction.

Most species are solitary in the wild and the resident frequently defends his/her territory against newcomers to the point of blood being drawn. They do not need or want company.

Even if they do tolerate each other, there is a high risk of pathogens carried and tolerated by one species being passed on and causing harm in another.

Overall, I recommend you keep them apart.


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## ascott (Apr 16, 2012)

I would recommend you not doing this....also if you have a permitted CDT you are required as a host to NOT have any other species housed with the CDT....in addition you will absolutely have an eventual size issue at the least...so why not just set them up appropriately to begin with? . Keep them both safe...


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## macdeezy (Apr 16, 2012)

DANG!!! you guys are quick responders! LOL  
The CDT I recieved was just vet checked roughly a month ago, more or less, and I need to find out how long she had it. He had been staying with my local herp society president, but he reached out to me, because the vet that we are trying to get linked with (were a new society) has asked him to also care for another CDT which has respiratory problems & needs meds, and a Red foot that has some pretty bad pyramidding!

The boy I got is 10 years old, and has a smoooth shell! He is a pig, and eats like there is no tomorrow! LOL!  
Today I put them together in the area I have for them in the front yard so they can both get some sun... but I was wondering if they would be able to stay together once I finish my backyard enclosure? I totally scratched the pond/enclosure I was starting, and am going to put a brick fence around our yard (we have roughly an acre of land).... so with enough room, and hides/houses at opposite sides of the yard would they be ok?


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## Jacob (Apr 16, 2012)

I wouldn't recommend it, as mentioned above possible sickness or disease.
They might even fight or hurt each other.


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## macdeezy (Apr 16, 2012)

After reading Ascotts post, I was thinking if it would be ok.. If I put the brick fence around the whole yard, and putting another wall right in the middle of the yard, basically seperating and making each enclosure roughly 1/2 an acre? 
One last question before I go to the gym.... How far apart do the 2 species need to be, to keep any pathogens/diseases from jumping to the other species? would just a brick wall be far enough, or does it need to be a few feet/or yards?? I would rather know this now, because hauling these dang bricks back and forth across the yard is BRUTAL on my back!


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## ascott (Apr 16, 2012)

No dear, they would still cross contaminate one another by sharing the same foot space.

Goes like this...CDT walks around taking bites of this weed and that grass and continues on...each time he bites he leaves behind saliva...or poo or pee....then Sulcata strolls along and crosses the path the CDT just did and nibbles the same plants and pees and poos and then the cycle continues until one or both are potentially ill......

If you are able to enclose the designated yard space why not simply add an additional brick barrier wall to break the over all yard into one smaller one for the CDT and one appropriate for the larger species...?

I would not allow them to share the same foot space....


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## JoesMum (Apr 16, 2012)

*RE: Desert Tort & Sulcatta Tort?*

If you read what we say you will see that we mean should separate them physically with fencing, boards or blocks in the garden. This must happen for the full quarantine period (min 6 months) and we recommend it's permanent.


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## macdeezy (Apr 16, 2012)

I understand, I was just asking if a brick wall seperating them would be enough seperation, which it sounds like it would... I was just thinking about airborn pathogens? 
So how much room would a CDT need to be happy? I want to make the sulcatta's pen as big as possible, so I would hope the CDT would need alot less then 1/2 an acre!


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## ascott (Apr 16, 2012)

You got it! the fence to separate is good....you simply do not want them to cross contaminate one another with grazing and pacing across one anothers poo and pee....

And I feel for your back with brick moving....no fun...I would also say that the Sulcata would be the species that will need a larger space...yes CDTs do love to walk...for hours on some days...they do not need equal space as your Sulcata....physically their size will absolutely be different...I would say if you have an acre to work with then perhaps the ratio I would offer would be Sulcata 70% and CDT 30% of that overall space.....just my take on it...


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## dmmj (Apr 16, 2012)

Regarding airborne I am unaware of any airborne pathogens, so in reality a wall should be enough. I also recommend against housing species together. I know several people who do with no noticeable effects, but I personally would just not take the risk. Besides disease , most tortoises also don't want or need companionship, then you have the size differences between the two later down the road.


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## macdeezy (Apr 16, 2012)

Thanks for the replies! You guys have AWESOME info, and have given me great guidance already! I like the 70/30% ratio! Because the Sulcatta is already pretty big, and really likes to roam! 
Since the CDT isnt going to get that big and strong (compared to the Sulcatta) can his pen be made out of fence posts spaced every 5-6ft apart and lined with the small holed chicken wire?? Or maybe even like a plastic type trellis? 
Also... I know Sulcatta's can dig quite big/deep holes... Is he likely to do so if I give him enough room to roam, and a good house to go into? Or is it inevitable, and I just have to make a barrier underground to prevent him from escaping? 

My family owns a few properties, and I am trying to use as much extra building equipment we have lying around from past projects!


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## dmmj (Apr 16, 2012)

Some sulcatas dig and some don't no rhyme or reason really as to who will or won't
I would avoid chicken wire if possible I would be concerned about them rubbing up against it or cutting themselves.


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## macdeezy (Apr 16, 2012)

OK! It looks like the CDT is pretty much almost full size, and I think the Plastic Trellis will work pretty good! I have enough of them, that I can make a good sized enclosure pretty quick! Im thinking about 2 1/2 feet tall, with wood posts every few feet!


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## ascott (Apr 16, 2012)

The CDT pound for pound is fairly strong and tenacious...but if you provide a good space they are less likely to be anxious to run off and break out....(not always, but usually) and these guys also burrow..can burrow 6-10 feet on average, depending on the weather/environment...so account for that as well....provide lots of places for him to lounge about under shade spots as well as places for him to bask...

This also would go for the big one....Sulcata can and do, if they feel like it, burrow and burrow and uh, burrow...lol again, you will need to determine the skill of the digger and the type of soil you have to determine if you will allow this or not...

One of the CDTs here is a premium digger and is simply not satisfied unless he has a burrow....he will pace and try to climb out of any size area (which means roll overs, thankfully he is just as skilled as the re roll...lol) if he does not have his burrow....so he has his burrow and apparently feels very secure with it....

Hey wait a minute...are you saying that the only thing that is going to separate the CDT from the Sulcata is a plastic trellis? Uh, the Sulcata is going to plow through that as though, well, it was not there....


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## Tom (Apr 16, 2012)

You need a visual and physical barrier around each tortoises full enclosure. Trellis or other see through fencing is not suitable. They will rub on it, and push under it or through it.

I have never needed any sort of buried wire or foundation with any of my sulcatas. They only rarely try to dig and I just fill in that hole when they go to bed and then they don't try any more for months, if at all. I just stack three rows of slumpstone blocks and offset the middle row with a half block at the start.


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## macdeezy (Apr 16, 2012)

Thanks guys!
And no Ascott I was not gonna use that trellis to seperate the torts! My sucatta will straight up plow through that with even the slightest push! And there is plenty of full sun, and Im gonna build at least 3 hides for him! 
For starters tomorrow Im gonna build a 24ftX24ft enclosure for the CDT, so I can start on the daunting task of moving bricks for the sulcatta! I'm really dreading it, but bricks are the only thing that can keep the sulcatta contained! Today he tried buldozing through the bricks I setup for him in the front yard, but thank god they worked! 

And for the trellis, I am thinking of using a mesh material I found at Orchard Hardware the other day. When folded, it is not see through, so it should be good enough! Either that or one of the other materials they have there, so I dont have to waste any by folding it!


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## ascott (Apr 17, 2012)

> And no Ascott I was not gonna use that trellis to seperate the torts!



LOL...good


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## macdeezy (Apr 17, 2012)

OK! So after a full day of working and sawing wood (I actually got a lil bit better at it), cutting grass (I had the worst lawn mower ever, since my brother left his and took ours!).  I built a 24ftX32ft enclosure for the CDT! My measuring was awesome, but I didnt exactly make the perimiter straight.... so one side is more like 36-38ft long! LOL! I just played it off to my fiance and said "I figured you would want a little gate to walk in through!" LOL! She totally bought it, and I was able to keep my masculinity! HAHA! 
I wasn't able to get good pics cuz we went out for fast food once we were done, but tomorrow I will take some pics from our back deck! 

My fiance was able to snap one pic on her phone, and as you can tell I still have tons of grass to cut when I get my mower back! She caught me totally off guard, I thought she was gone and I was huffing and puffing after putting in the last screws! But I thought I would share it with you anyways!


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## ascott (Apr 17, 2012)

That is a great size ...uh, what are you planning to use for shade for some of that area??  What type of predators do you have in that area? Is it close to your house? How high is the enclosure fencing? Oh yeah one more thing..is there irrigation set up or are you going to use the old fashion method of hose and sprinkler like I do...(lol ) oh oh, also, don't cut that grass down too much---a CDT can plow through quite a bit of grass if free grazing....

Also, what beautiful trees and surrounding area


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## macdeezy (Apr 18, 2012)

Thanks Ascott! I built the enclosure next to that big willow (i think its called that) for shade and....I was looking through this site, and am going to make 2 burrows with a metal trash can cut in half, and 8+inches of dirt piled over for insulation! Here is the site I got off of another thread..... http://www.azgfd.gov/w_c/tortoise/documents/PhxTucBurrows.pdf

The only Predators is 1 German Sheaperd that have killed 2 of our dogs! We are surprised that he hasn't been taken away, but they said a few more complaints and he will be remanded and put to sleep! So at the first sign of him, we call the SPCA! 
My fiance wants me to build a chicken wire wall around the enclosure so no turkeys or chickens (I live in the country) get in their and bug the tort! So I might do that also! 

For now the height is only 15 inches, but that should last long enough until I get married this June, and have extra income! These dang weddings are EXPENSIVE!! LOL!  What would be a good height that I should make it? 
And yea, Im gonna go old school, and use a hose & sprinkler! I also hope he starts free grazing alot... cuz he was given to me, and told he likes kale, rainbow chard, dandelion, and collards. So it might be a while till he starts free grazing, but I hope its soon! I have seen him straight line it for dandelions growing in the yard, so I hope he just goes with it, and starts branching out to the other wild plants/weeds!
My Sulcatta on the other hand readily grazes on EVERYTHING! 

BTW: all that surrounding area is my backyard! LOL! Ill take better pics tomorrow so you can see exactly what I am working with!


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## ascott (Apr 18, 2012)

> the height is only 15 inches,



How long is he ...you will want to make sure ideally that the enclosure walls are double his height...you will also get a look at how he does in there and he will let you know what he is going to do in a relatively short time....



> The only Predators is 1 German Sheaperd that have killed 2 of our dogs! We are surprised that he hasn't been taken away, but they said a few more complaints and he will be remanded and put to sleep! So at the first sign of him, we call the SPCA!



This is a bad predator to have lurking around....I would be sure to have night houses for your torts and be sure to secure them each night....at least until you are confident the dog is no longer an issue....


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## macdeezy (Apr 19, 2012)

He has just been wandering around the enclosure so far. Once he established that the tree is a good shade spot, he hung out under it during the hottest part of the day! 
And our dogs are AWESOME at alerting that the dog is around and we are all on our toes about ANY barking , so I feel pretty secure! But I will have some great burrows for him in a few days, and one wood one that I can close him inside when it starts getting late, just so I can feel absolutely 100% secure!


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