# Peat moss & topsoil mix...?



## DawnH (Jun 6, 2015)

Tuleo's (Sulcata) indoor enclosure has been straight organic top soil for a few months now. I am really not happy with the ridges I am seeing on his carapace and think he needs more moisture in it. Has anyone had any good luck with a Peat moss and organic top soil mix? He is 8.5 inches now and enjoys digging around. He is outside all day so this would be for his enclosure at night/during inclement weather.

If this sounds like a bad call pls let me know.


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## mikeylazer (Jun 6, 2015)

The moisture in the substrate really wont change the amount of humidity very significantly. The best way would be to cover most or all of the enclosure you have him in with maybe a clear shower curtain or buy something to do so. He looks great, just amp up the humidity so he doesnt start to really pyramid too much.


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## DawnH (Jun 6, 2015)

mikeylazer said:


> The moisture in the substrate really wont change the amount of humidity very significantly. The best way would be to cover most or all of the enclosure you have him in with maybe a clear shower curtain or buy something to do so. He looks great, just amp up the humidity so he doesnt start to really pyramid too much.



I very much disagree. The moisture in the substrate helps immensely IMO and is one of the vital keys of raising a healthy tort (along with covering their enclosure as his has been since he came here at 5 weeks old.) My concern is that since I have changed his substrate to a straight organic topsoil mix vs. bark/coir mix (he does not care for the bark) I am seeing issues. Since coco coir & peat moss retain moisture, I just need to know which mix is best (or if there is another that I am not thinking of.)


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## Cowboy_Ken (Jun 6, 2015)

Dawn, that is what I use. 50/50 organic non-manure top soil and organic additive free peat moss. Holds moisture well and the peat moss is acidic so it discourages the growth of mold and most bacteria. Peat moss is simply decomposed sphagnum moss.


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## Tom (Jun 6, 2015)

I don't like soil because we don't know what its made of. I don't like peat moss because its messy.

What makes you think your tortoise doesn't care for orchid bark? My tortoises just do what they do regardless of what substrate I put under them.

I think being outside all day is the biggest factor in the changes you are seeing. I see the same thing here.


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## DawnH (Jun 6, 2015)

Tom said:


> I don't like soil because we don't know what its made of. I don't like peat moss because its messy.
> 
> What makes you think your tortoise doesn't care for orchid bark? My tortoises just do what they do regardless of what substrate I put under them.
> 
> I think being outside all day is the biggest factor in the changes you are seeing. I see the same thing here.



I don't mind mess. He cannot dig in the bark and he likes to dig himself a shallow hole to hang out in vs. using his hide box. He has only been outside all day the last 4 weeks or so, has access to multiple water spots and now gets soaked 4-6 times a week and still we have issues. His indoor oasis is not holding humidity, he is holding humidly outside (we are in SETX) so I know it is due to his indoor space.


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## DawnH (Jun 6, 2015)

Cowboy_Ken said:


> Dawn, that is what I use. 50/50 organic non-manure top soil and organic additive free peat moss. Holds moisture well and the peat moss is acidic so it discourages the growth of mold and most bacteria. Peat moss is simply decomposed sphagnum moss.



Ken, do you find the organic peat moss at one of the big box hardware stores or do I need to look someplace else? I am planning on redoing his indoor oasis today so I wanted to check!


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## Cowboy_Ken (Jun 6, 2015)

I picked mine up at a local farm and preppie store. I would imagine someplace like Home Depot would have it in the garden section. It's a large, fully wrapped compressed bale that equals something like 3 cubic feet or that could be yards.


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## mikeylazer (Jun 6, 2015)

DawnH said:


> I don't mind mess. He cannot dig in the bark and he likes to dig himself a shallow hole to hang out in vs. using his hide box. He has only been outside all day the last 4 weeks or so, has access to multiple water spots and now gets soaked 4-6 times a week and still we have issues. His indoor oasis is not holding humidity, he is holding humidly outside (we are in SETX) so I know it is due to his indoor space.


Can we get a pic of his indoor setup. If it is closed off then it should be holding humidity. If you have to keep the substrate wet all the time it will just promote mold a shell issues. If it is closed chamber you shouldnt have any problems keeping humidity.


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## mikeylazer (Jun 6, 2015)

DawnH said:


> I very much disagree. The moisture in the substrate helps immensely IMO and is one of the vital keys of raising a healthy tort (along with covering their enclosure as his has been since he came here at 5 weeks old.) My concern is that since I have changed his substrate to a straight organic topsoil mix vs. bark/coir mix (he does not care for the bark) I am seeing issues. Since coco coir & peat moss retain moisture, I just need to know which mix is best (or if there is another that I am not thinking of.)


I am not saying that keeping a substrate bone dry is fine. I keep areas of my substrate moist and other dry out more easily but I do not find that keeping the substrate wet at all times will actually increase your humidity if he is not in a closed chamber system. Fix the covering first to trap humidity, then go from there. If he has access to a cooler damp humid hide that is filled with damp sphagnum moss, then no other area really has to be kept "wet."


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## Tom (Jun 6, 2015)

As they get larger, they get closer to their hot bulbs. Have you raised the height of your basking bulb and increased the size of the basking area?

Doesn't matter where you are or what the humidity is. Being outside all day has a different effect on them than being inside most of the time, and 4 weeks is plenty of time to see this.

Swapping substrates is not likely to do much. Wet orchid bark is not all that different then wet peat or wet soil. Its the water content that does the trick, not the stuff holding the water.


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## DawnH (Jun 6, 2015)

Tom said:


> As they get larger, they get closer to their hot bulbs. Have you raised the height of your basking bulb and increased the size of the basking area?
> 
> Doesn't matter where you are or what the humidity is. Being outside all day has a different effect on them than being inside most of the time, and 4 weeks is plenty of time to see this.
> 
> Swapping substrates is not likely to do much. Wet orchid bark is not all that different then wet peat or wet soil. Its the water content that does the trick, not the stuff holding the water.



Yep! Bulbs are raised and his basking area is two feet wide. I'm tellin' ya, it is the substrate. Wetting topsoil creates mud and it is not holding the water/moisture continually no matter what I do (unless I flood the poor guy and even then it drops faster than I would like.) The bark and peat will hold the moisture longer IMO. My humidity was holding constant at 80 ish with the mix (adding water of course) and at first I wasn't worried about the drop when I changed it (no matter how much water I was adding) but now I am seeing issues so I want it back up. There is nothing wrong with his lights/heat/top/temps, etc. Just humidity holding issues due to his substrate.


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## DawnH (Jun 6, 2015)

Cowboy_Ken said:


> I picked mine up at a local farm and preppie store. I would imagine someplace like Home Depot would have it in the garden section. It's a large, fully wrapped compressed bale that equals something like 3 cubic feet or that could be yards.



Got it. I will do a 50/50 blend and see if I can get those numbers back up! Thank you!


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## mikeylazer (Jun 6, 2015)

DawnH said:


> Yep! Bulbs are raised and his basking area is two feet wide. I'm tellin' ya, it is the substrate. Wetting topsoil creates mud and it is not holding the water/moisture continually no matter what I do (unless I flood the poor guy.) The bark and peat will hold the moisture longer IMO. My humidity was holding constant at 80 ish with the mix (adding water of course) and at first I wasn't worried about the drop when I changed it (no matter how much water I was adding) but now I am seeing issues so I want it back up. There is nothing wrong with his lights/heat/top/temps, etc. Just humidity holding issues due to his substrate.


I was not aware that your ambient humidity actually dropped from the substrate change. I definitely would change it then from the soil.


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## Cowboy_Ken (Jun 6, 2015)

Dawn, in my outdoor night box I don't have any lighting. I maintain the heat with an oil filled electric radiator heater. It's on a thermostat. On a regular basis I hose the substrate down inside to help with the ambient humidity. The substrate is 4"-5" deep and they “snuggle" down into it at night and during the day.


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## WillTort2 (Jun 6, 2015)

What might cause such a humidity change for an indoor open enclosure would be the house being air conditioned. The purpose of an AC is to lower humidity and lower temperature.

I would close off the room where the tortoise's enclosure is located. Add coco coir to the enclosure and then add water until the desired temperature and humidity are reached. This does require a dedicated tortoise room or you could just build a closed enclosure.


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## spud's_mum (Jun 6, 2015)

I use peat for my hermanns tort  it still drys quickly though


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## DawnH (Jun 7, 2015)

Cowboy_Ken said:


> Dawn, in my outdoor night box I don't have any lighting. I maintain the heat with an oil filled electric radiator heater. It's on a thermostat. On a regular basis I hose the substrate down inside to help with the ambient humidity. The substrate is 4"-5" deep and they “snuggle" down into it at night and during the day.



We don't have an outdoor night box yet. He is coming in each night till we move and build his big oasis (although I am toying with making one before we move to get him outside full time.) Since he is out during the day he just has a flood bulb for basking and then the CHE for nighttime warmth. Substrate gets hosed down daily (outdoors twice/sometimes three times a day) and his indoor substrate is around 4" deep (I should bump it up a bit.) He really prefers to snooze under his CHE in his little hole he has created with his head just flopped off to the side. It's pretty cute. Thanks for all the help! The new 50/50 peat moss/organic top soil mix has been in for 22 hours now and has held at 86% humidity. WHOOP!


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