# Plastic Storage Bin vs Glass Tank



## Mavrik (Mar 15, 2015)

If a plastic tote with roughly the measurements of a 50gal tank has higher sides than a standard glass 40gal tank, would the 40gal tank technically be a better option, since theoretically it would have better air flow with the lower sides?

This thought crossed my mind as I was checking on all my shellings today -- I use both a ~50gal tote for my yellowfoot Manny, and my 2 redfoots Chico and Chava are in a 40gal tank. They both have the same amount of floor space, but the 40gal tank has lower sides than the tote. I run a room humidifier with a fairly powerful fan to keep the ambient humidity up, but it seems like I have more issues with the plastic tote than I do with the glass tank.

Let's discuss!


----------



## wellington (Mar 15, 2015)

Plastic bin I think is better, you can add to it to make enclosure bigger


----------



## christinaland128 (Mar 15, 2015)

Plastic bins are better. If you ever want to connect two of them, I've seen people put a sort of tunnel between two of them. Pretty cool.


----------



## Mavrik (Mar 15, 2015)

What specifically about the plastic bins though makes them better versus a glass tank? I am asking for facts, science, etc, rather than just opinions. We could argue opinions from here to eternity and never come to a consensus. I do value the opinions of others, but my scientifically-driven mind requires validation in factual form rather than anecdotal.

My observations:
) The temps in the glass tank tend to fluctuate more, based on the air movement in the room.
) The humidity tends to stay higher in the plastic tote, but there are more issues with mold.
) I have black paper taped around the bottom 4" of both the tote and the tank to prevent stress from the shellings seeing outward and trying to run through the glass -- I have varied this height from 2" to 18" and it does not seem to have any bearing on temperature or humidity.


----------



## HLogic (Mar 15, 2015)

Plastic is lighter and doesn't shatter into sharp shards. The mold you are experiencing is more likely a result of something else in the plastic bin. Neither glass nor plastic support mold growth well. Usually, a site barrier is not necessary with opaque plastic.


----------



## christinaland128 (Mar 15, 2015)

I have a plastic bin and I have no mold issues. Of course I have an adjustable fogger.


----------



## Mavrik (Mar 15, 2015)

The mold is not forming on the enclosure itself, it is forming in the bedding, which circles us back to the air flow issue. 

Depending on the degree of opacity, one may still need the sight barrier -- my plastic tote has some opacity but you can still see through it fairly clearly depending on the amount of light in the room. By putting up the barrier, he now toddles around and utilizes the whole space afforded to him.


----------



## HLogic (Mar 15, 2015)

I've used the translucent plastic boxes for many dozens of torts without issue with no sight barrier. Air flow is not something you should be worried too much about. They don't burn that much oxygen. It is possible the mold is being carried in by the circulation and taking hold because the substrate is consistently moist. Allow the top of the substrate to dry before rewetting.


----------



## Tom (Mar 15, 2015)

Most commonly used substrates will not mold. When you say mold are you talking about the whitish fuzzy stuff?

About airflow and wall height: This is just physics. Of course taller sides will inhibit air flow more than shorter sides. The only way to answer the question of which one is better is to answer the question: Is the air flowing in the right temperature and humidity. If yes, then more air flow is good. If no and the incoming air is too cold and dry, then reduced airflow is better. Personally, I prefer a closed chamber with no airflow, because it makes maintaining whatever temperature and humidity I want very easy.

Are you aware that RFs and YFs are prone to shell rot if kept in conditions that are too damp? I ask because if you've got mold on your substrate you very well could have fungus on your tortoise's plastrons. A closed chamber makes it easy to maintain higher humidity with a dry surface.


----------



## Team Gomberg (Mar 15, 2015)

You didn't mention if either of these enclosures have the lids on. I'm going to assume "no" because if you did, airflow wouldn't be an issue.

I've used both. A 40 gallon glass tank AND a 50 gallon plastic tote set up and running at the same time. Both had covered lids and created "closed chambers". There were no major differences noted between the 2. They both had similar lighting/heat and maintained same conditions easily. The tank was more cosmetically appealing because since I could see in, I decorated it nicer. As far as function goes...they were basically the same.


----------



## Mavrik (Mar 16, 2015)

Neither of the enclosures have a full covering across the top.

I was always under the impression that a closed chamber would be more likely to mold. Perhaps I am mistaken, but due to no air movement in the fully enclosed chamber, would this also increase the risk for respiratory infections, as they are breathing in the same air all the time?

The mold I am referring to is the fuzzy whitish stuff, I usually find it underneath the water bowls. The temps on both enclosures run from mid 70s on the cool side to high 80s and low 90s on the warmer side, and the water bowls are more towards the warmer side. Would placement of the bowl have something to do with it?

I let the top layer of soil dry out, and then rake it up every 2 or 3 days. By the end of a week or so, it is dry all the way through and I re-wet it. It gets changed roughly once a month.

Thanks for your discussion guys. It's making my brain percolate.


----------



## Tom (Mar 16, 2015)

Mavrik said:


> The mold I am referring to is the fuzzy whitish stuff, I usually find it underneath the water bowls.



That is not mold. Its fungus. It requires a food source and moisture to grow. It will grow in either a glass tank or a plastic tub if its needs are met. If you are using "soil" that could be your issue. I would suggest coco coir, coco chips or orchid bark. None of those will support mold or fungus growth.

What a closed chamber does is keep the room air out of the enclosure air. It doesn't even have to be damp. Its just a way to keep the two bodies of air separated and different. The conditions inside can easily be kept whatever way you want them. Dry or damp, hot or cold. I've raised hundreds of hatchlings and tortoises in closed chambers. Breathing the same air all the time does not cause respiratory infections. There is plenty of air exchange every time I open the door, which is several times a day for food, water and general maintenance, and they are not air tight by any means.

Like this: http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/closed-chambers.32333/


----------



## Prairie Mom (Mar 16, 2015)

I'm not sure if this is what you're looking for, but I second everyone's plastic votes simply because they can be expanded. I've used large storage totes as make-shift closed chambers. I cut holes in the lids, protected the cut plastic lid near my lights with aluminum and covered the whole CHE & UVB lamp with an aluminum tent in order to trap the heat and humidity inside. -Worked great and maintained the climate I needed. I got big enough Tupperware that I could easily fit inside, cut their ends off, duct taped them together, and I was able to make a closed chamber near the recommended size until we were able to build something we liked better.

As for the white fuzzies... I haven't had issues with my cypress mulch growing fungus, but I have had coco coir in my enclosure plants and removable grass trays get the white spots. This only happened because I have a really bad habit of seriously over watering. I had to learn that I can still maintain high humidity without keeping everything sopping wet. I was able to pick out the fungus as I saw it, let things dry a bit (still had humidity in high 80's), and this seemed to solve my problem.


----------



## Heather H (Mar 17, 2015)

i feel like I have more control with a glass enclosure. I have it covered with tile. this way I can open a bit or close the whole thing up to achieve the temps and humidity that I want. I do have 3 sides covered. He does not seem to mind being in glass. If I see him ramming the sides or any problems then I will make changes. I do not like plastic bin because I can not keep an eye on him. He is 1 1/2 month old dalmatian. I am over protective. He even gets his bath in a warmed enclosure and is never left unattended. I did have fungus but I had the enclosure very wet and it was in and around the seedlings. I opened it up for a couple of days and got rid of the problem for now.


----------



## Yvonne G (Mar 17, 2015)

Far as I'm concerned, the big plus for plastic bins is the cost. Glass is SO expensive!


----------



## naturalman91 (Mar 17, 2015)

i've used both and to be honest i never noticed a difference totes are better in my opinion because they're a little bigger tanks in width


----------



## christinaland128 (Mar 17, 2015)

Mavrik said:


> The mold is not forming on the enclosure itself, it is forming in the bedding, which circles us back to the air flow issue.
> 
> Depending on the degree of opacity, one may still need the sight barrier -- my plastic tote has some opacity but you can still see through it fairly clearly depending on the amount of light in the room. By putting up the barrier, he now toddles around and utilizes the whole space afforded to him.


Try baking your dirt to kill any bacteria. I used organic topsoil and a combination of coir and forest floor, and I've had no mold whatsoever. And my humidity is always at least 70 to 80%. The key is to allow the surface of your substrate to dry up a little here and there.


----------



## Tom (Mar 17, 2015)

naturalman91 said:


> i've used both and to be honest i never noticed a difference totes are better in my opinion because they're a little bigger tanks in width



You bring up a very good point that I really wasn't thinking of. I have used plastic bins, cement mixing tubs, glass tanks, horse troughs, wooden tables, wooden closed chambers, vision cages and more that I'm sure I can't think of... All worked fine. Every enclosure in every environment will need custom tweaks to get it just right. Some enclosures just require more "tweaks" and work than others for a given environment. Maintaining a redfoot with an open top in any normal North American home is going to be a big challenge. Doesn't matter if the enclosure is made of glass, plastic, metal or wood.


----------



## Mavrik (Mar 17, 2015)

Tom said:


> Every enclosure in every environment will need custom tweaks to get it just right. Some enclosures just require more "tweaks" and work than others for a given environment. Maintaining a redfoot with an open top in any normal North American home is going to be a big challenge. Doesn't matter if the enclosure is made of glass, plastic, metal or wood.



*Raises glass*
Here here!


----------



## Donna/Turbo (Mar 19, 2015)

I really like the plastic bins. I just moved them to the screened in pool area today. Don't need a heat lamp outside. And humidity is 60.


----------

