# Sick tortoise... Not walking right or eating



## CBrown (Jul 7, 2015)

Hello

We have a red-footed tortoise who is approx 9 years old. We've had him for 2.5 years. He has been healthy and active up until about 6 months ago. He is not well and the one vet in Northern MI who knows reptiles moved away. Here are the symptoms:
Very lethargic, not eating, weak legs-- when he walks, he doesn't stand on his legs anymore, they crumple under the weight of him. They splay out around him.
I've read many posts here and I think it may be the temperature is too low. He lives in a 4foot by 8 foot wood raised enclosure with cypress mulch as the base. He has one heat lamp (150 Watt Exoterra SunGlo). He is in the finished basement of our bi level home in our daughters bedroom. He is inside all year as we live in northern Michigan where snow is on the ground October to april. I have read that we probably need to figure out a way to get him outside more, but I worry that other animals will get him or he'll be too cold in the mornings ( which even in summer dip into the 40s at times).

1. Why do you think his legs are so weak?
2. I've read that I need to know the temperatures of the 4 spots in his tank, but what are the correct temperatures for those spots for a red-footed tortoise?
3. We haven't been doing calcium...so should we start sprinkling crushed Tums on his food? Or buy something?
4. How many times a week should we be feeding him? We had been doing every other day but have now tried to get him to eat every day and he is not interested.
He eats predominantly tomatoes and romaine lettuce, sometimes chicken (2x month), other fruit and veggies we offer but he has been turning his nose up at most food. He used to eat grapes, bananas, corn, green beans strawberries ...now is not interested.

I was told by the pet shop owner that he didn't need a UVB bulb, just the heat light, but after reading here it sounds like I need to buy that and a ceramic heating unit for night?

He is my 12 year old daughters pet and she is very worried. I don't think he looks well at all. Sometimes I look into his enclosure and he is so still, eyes closed that I call him and no response, have to shake him and he wakes up/opens his eyes. Not good. Last year, He used to try to escape his cage, would crawl up the sides of the enclosure,(and flip over(!), but now he is very sedentary.
We are afraid he is dying.
Help!


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## christinaland128 (Jul 7, 2015)

The pet store was very wrong about no UVB. I hoped your baby pulls through. 

Please follow the advice from some of our experienced members. And if you end up needing a good vet, there's a good one I've gone to in the past here in Mi. but it's in metro Detroit so you'll have to drive pretty far. Good luck.


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## christinaland128 (Jul 7, 2015)

The vet is Parkway Small Animal Clinic, dr. Bankstahl. It's in Clinton Twp. Mi.


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## ZEROPILOT (Jul 7, 2015)

He looks horribly dehydrated.
The shell pyramidding is caused by lack of humidity and the rest seems to be lack of correct UVB.
Redfoot tortoises. Any tortoises need to be let outside to get sunlight.
Do you give him warm water soaks?
Hopefully it's not already too late. It sounds like MBD has set in.
Make no mistake. He IS dying.
I'll try to get you some help.


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## ZEROPILOT (Jul 7, 2015)

@Tom


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## christinaland128 (Jul 7, 2015)

I also live in Michigan, and you can take your tortoise outside weather permitting. Mine spend several hours a day outside during the summer, then stay indoors with good UVB lighting in the winter. 

It's not hard to build an outdoor enclosure, there are some good resources here on the forum...

http://www.tortoiseforum.org/index.php?threads/Ideas-for-outdoor-enclosures.65797/

Don't be discouraged! I hope your baby recovers.


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## Yvonne G (Jul 7, 2015)

Hi, and welcome to the Forum!

Your tortoise's problem is that you've followed the poor advice given to you by the pet stores. You need to change the way you care for the tortoise immediately. Hopefully it's not too late.

First of all, calcium doesn't work unless you also have either the sun or a good UVB light. The two, calcium and UVB/vitamin d3, work together to make strong bones and shell. Also, just so you are aware, metabolic bone disease (MBD) or calcium deficiency, is very painful.

The next thing is your tort table, while a good size and very nicely made, is very open and its awfully hard to maintain the proper humidity in such an open-topped table. It would help if you had about 3 more inches of substrate and a few plants in there. Redfooted tortoises come from South America. It's hot and humid where they live. 

Read the RF info at the *Tortoise Library* The info shown there was either written or compiled by one of our moderators and will help you take better care of your redfooted tortoise.


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## Yvonne G (Jul 7, 2015)

1. His legs are weak from lack of calcium and sunshine (vitamin d3/UVB)
2. Redfooted tortoises don't need temperature zones. They need to have their temperature at least 80F degrees over the whole habitat.
3. You can feed calcium-rich foods or buy calicum powder at the pet store and sprinkle a small 'pinch' over their food every other day.
4. RF tortoises should be fed daily, with animal protein included in the feeding twice a week or so.
5. One you didn't mention - the tortoise should have a waterer in the habitat large enough that he can climb into and out of


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## CBrown (Jul 8, 2015)

Thank you SO MUCH everyone. We took him to a regular vet up here 6 weeks ago and she didn't say anything about UVB or calcium or going outside...just looked up foods on the Internet he could try. Your responses could very well save his life. We had no idea what to do...and you all have taken the time to educate us --THANK YOU! I hope it isn't too late too. We put additional heat in his pen and he started moving more and eating the food we had sprinkled the calcium on...we will do all the things you suggested. Thanks again!!

Cathy


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## JoesMum (Jul 8, 2015)

CBrown said:


> Thank you SO MUCH everyone. We took him to a regular vet up here 6 weeks ago and she didn't say anything about UVB or calcium or going outside...just looked up foods on the Internet he could try. Your responses could very well save his life. We had no idea what to do...and you all have taken the time to educate us --THANK YOU! I hope it isn't too late too. We put additional heat in his pen and he started moving more and eating the food we had sprinkled the calcium on...we will do all the things you suggested. Thanks again!!
> 
> Cathy


Good luck to you and your tort... and keep us posted on progress. Don't hesitate to ask if you have any more questions


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## ZEROPILOT (Jul 9, 2015)

Vets are in every neighborhood. A vet that actually knows tortoises are very few and far between. You'd be much better off asking questions here than spending any more money at your current vet.
Find another one.
Good ones exist.


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## CBrown (Jul 9, 2015)

Which UVB light should we buy? I read here that it shouldn't be a coiled light as those are dangerous. is one of these the right kind? We already bought an extra heat lamp and now just need to add the UVB light. So he will have a "red light" heat bulb on 24/7, his regular basking heat light during the day (auto shut off after 13 hours)and we'll purchase the UVB light. 
Which type ( see pics below) and does that sound right?


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## JoesMum (Jul 9, 2015)

Let's start with the heat bulb. Your tort needs complete darkness at night. No light, including red, is suitable. Overnight heat should be done with a Ceramic Heat Emitter (CHE) which needs a ceramic bulb holder or cage and should be used in conjunction with a thermostat.

The CHE can also be used to heat by day, however they do not provide basking heat. For that you need a basking lamp. This can be a household reflector type bulb or an MVB which also provides UVB.

You have the MVB in the first picture; that's good to buy and will give your tort UVB and basking heat. The bottom one is a dangerous coil type UVB bulb, don't buy this. 

If you don't buy the MVB you will need to buy a long fluorescent tube type UVB light.

Torts love red foods... and red bulbs colour the tank decor red... this can lead to torts eating things they shouldn't. Torts really can be silly this way... I have seen mine try to eat red circles printed on a newspaper! As a result, red bulbs are not recommended for use with torts at all.


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## domalle (Jul 9, 2015)

CBrown said:


> Hello
> 
> We have a red-footed tortoise who is approx 9 years old. We've had him for 2.5 years. He has been healthy and active up until about 6 months ago. He is not well and the one vet in Northern MI who knows reptiles moved away. Here are the symptoms:
> Very lethargic, not eating, weak legs-- when he walks, he doesn't stand on his legs anymore, they crumple under the weight of him. They splay out around him.
> ...


Your tortoise is in a downward spiral and needs turtle-knowledgeable veterinary attention immediately. The monotonous diet (tomatoes and romaine lettuce) has been a major cause of his decline. He needs an infusion of foods of high caloric value administered quickly to get him eating on his own
again. He can be saved if you act quickly.


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## domalle (Jul 9, 2015)

CBrown said:


> Hello
> 
> We have a red-footed tortoise who is approx 9 years old. We've had him for 2.5 years. He has been healthy and active up until about 6 months ago. He is not well and the one vet in Northern MI who knows reptiles moved away. Here are the symptoms:
> Very lethargic, not eating, weak legs-- when he walks, he doesn't stand on his legs anymore, they crumple under the weight of him. They splay out around him.
> ...


Forgot to mention that if the ambient temperature in the basement where he is kept is lower than the open cage temperature, the warm air will rise
and colder air move in to replace it creating a detrimental draft and chilled cage environment despite the spotlighted heat provided. He will not be
able to digest his food properly and will lose any and all interest in eating under those conditions.
The first and main consideration is to get him some nourishment quickly or the downward spiral can be expected to continue.
I wish you the best of luck and you may contact me anytime with any questions.


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## CBrown (Jul 11, 2015)

Hi domalle-- you mention that we should feed him high caloric food immediately. What would that be? Can you give some examples of a high calorie food that a tortoise would eat?
Yes, it is definitely cool in our basement ...I never thought about the heat rising. We don't have room upstairs for that size tank upstairs so not sure how to correct that other than adding the CHE?

And thank you "Joesmum" we are removing the red-light and will go purchase the CHE or order online. Any good websites you recommend?


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## NicoleB26 (Jul 11, 2015)

I order my lights and CHE's on amazon. They r cheaper than my local pet store. http://www.tortoiselibrary.com/nutrition-2/good-foods-list/. That link will take u to a food list take get u started. If u don't get him warmed up he isn't going to recover. Can u take him upstairs and use a smaller temporary enclosure ? If U cover the basement enclosure u should be able to maintain the temp and humidity. Look up closed chambers on the forum that is what u will need to maintain proper heat and humidity. I use one for my box turtle in my basement with no problem. I would also give him warm soaks daily. (IDK if that was already mentioned) At least for now, u can cut back when he recovers. Good luck!!!


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## Tidgy's Dad (Jul 11, 2015)

Hello, Cathy and a very warm welcome to Tortoise Forum to you and your poor Redfoot.
It's shame this is happening, but unfortunately many vets and pet shops give out very bad information from a bygone era of tortoise husbandry. 
Not your fault.
Thankfully, you've come here and if you act on the information given, which you clearly are, then there is hope for the future for your tortoise.


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## WillTort2 (Jul 12, 2015)

You may wish to try the baby food soaks to provide some nutrition and warmth. Do a search on this forum for more specifics.


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