# Cabbage?



## smarch (Mar 13, 2013)

Since st. Patrick's day is coming we're having corned beef and cabbage for dinner, we have some left over cabbage leaves not being cooked, could my Russian Tortoise some with his dinner?


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## Yvonne G (Mar 13, 2013)

Cabbage is from the brassica family. Too much brassica might cause goiter. You can feed your left over cabbage to your Russian tortoise, just don't feed it all the time.


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## junebugsmom (Mar 13, 2013)

My russian loves cabbage but I only give it to her sparingly


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## Madkins007 (Mar 13, 2013)

One thing about brassicas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brassica) is that they are low in iodine and have goiterinogens that might cause goiters (Goiters are swellings, usually in the neck. Gout is a form of arthritis, and the two are often confused.) You can easily offset the lack of iodine if brassicas are your main food stuff, but it really isn't an issue in a balanced diet. in fact, goiter is rarely seen in tortoises nowadays and was mostly a problem for a relatively few species (mostly the giants) fed almost exclusively cabbage.

The other thing is that collards are a brassica as well (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collard_greens)- same species as cabbage, kale, brocooli, etc. (_Brassica oleracea[\i]). In fact, mustard greens are a brassica as well, although a different species, as are turnips! In fact, all of our favorite tortoise greens are brassicas- and we really don't see any health issues from them. 

Cabbage is actually a pretty nutritious food item with a decent Ca: P ratio and assortment of vitamins and minerals (http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/vegetables-and-vegetable-products/2371/2) (Just FYI- Spinach is not that bad for your tortoise either!)_


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## GeoTerraTestudo (Mar 13, 2013)

As usual, I agree with Mark. Cabbage gets a bad rap for being cruciferous, and for being high in oxalate, low in iodine, and high in goitrogens. However, many other good tortie foods are also _Brassica_ species or cultivars, e.g. collards, mustard, etc. It's okay to offer these plants, as long as they are part of a varied diet, and not fed too frequently.

For the record, I think the best plants for _Testudo_ tortoises are in the sunflower family, and in the subfamily Cichorioideae. These are chicory, endive, escarole, radicchio, dandelion, and lettuce in its many forms. These plants don't have all the nutrients; nothing does, including Mazuri, so the advice for a varied diet still stands. However, the nice thing about chicory and its relatives is that they contain few or no anti-nutrients, like oxalate, goitrogens, etc. So, they are more palatable and less toxic. In fact, _Testudo_ species eat a lot of these in nature - probably more than any other plant. Tortoises with gut parasites seem to self-medicate with toxic, bitter plants like poppies and buttercups. However, healthy torts with few or no parasites prefer sunflowers, probably because they're tastier! Cruciferous plants are somewhere between the bitter poppies and the tasty sunflowers in their chemical content and palatability.

My Russians like some cruciferous plants more than others, but they're not really crazy about any of them. They'll eat mustard greens, turnip greens, and collard greens fairly well, but even though cabbage is closely related to these, they don't seem to like it as much. Not sure why; it's probably tougher and contains more anti-nutrients. You can offer it from time to time, but don't be surprised if it's not their favorite.

In contrast, my Russians are usually pretty happy to receive lettuce, endive, or dandelion. Again, they can get bored with anything, and need a varied diet, including cruciferous plants. But I think it's a good idea to have more sunflowers than _Brassica_ species in the diet. Adding Mazuri to the mix every now and then is good, too.

BTW - Broccoli is another variety of _Brassica_, and people are often advised not to give that to their tortoises, too. Again, I think it's fine in moderation. I've given it to my Russians on a couple of occasions. Again, they did eat from it, but not with gusto, probably because it's more fibrous and less flavorful. I guess nobody likes broccoli.


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## GeoTerraTestudo (Mar 14, 2013)

I also agree that spinach is not that bad, either. Having said that, my Russians aren't crazy about it, perhaps because they can smell some of the less nutritious compounds in it. I never feed it to them alone, although it is often part of their spring mix. They eat some of it, but not much. It usually forms the bulk of their leftovers.


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