# Underbite / Jaw Misaligned / Cracked



## MPRC (Jul 11, 2015)

Vern is at it again. He's still hunger striking (since I got him about 10 days ago all I have gotten him to eat is a little bit of fruit)

Today when he yawned and closed his mouth his bottom jaw protruded out over the top and it appears to have a crack. Has anyone ever seen this before? 

I've never seen him eat anything that isn't mushy so I am not sure if it effects his ability to eat. 

I feel like I could try to trim or dremel the bottom, but I fear that the splits may go far enough down that doing so could take out a chunk and cause him pain and difficulty eating. 

Attached are two cell phone pics from today (I had to be quick and use what I had) and another picture of how he usually looks with his top jaw over the bottom.

Should I even be concerned or am I a worry-wart new tortoise owner?


----------



## MPRC (Jul 11, 2015)

Any input at all would be appreciated. - He's since yawned and put it back into alignment, but I still worry about the cracking on the bottom part.


----------



## MPRC (Jul 12, 2015)

Unless anyone has anything to say otherwise I think I'm going to try to trim the cracked piece. I hope it doesn't cause any misalignment, but as it is right now it's getting filled with dirt.


----------



## leigti (Jul 12, 2015)

Do you have a reptile vet you can take him to? I'm not sure I would mess with it too much, you don't want a big chunk to fall off. I suggest you wait until some more experienced people come along to give you advice. Weekends are a little slow but it should pick up starting tonight and tomorrow.


----------



## spud's_mum (Jul 12, 2015)

Maybe @Tom can help?


----------



## MPRC (Jul 12, 2015)

@leigti - Unfortunately I haven't found anyone around here who I trust. I have pretty high standards after 7 years as a vet assistant and I've been let down over and over. I had a vet ask why my leopard geckos wasn't able to climb walls. She was a gecko after all... 

He let me file off about 1/4 of what is cracked without any resistance and it seems to be tucking back under his beak like normal again. I think the misalignment was just being made worse over and over by him pushing down on it and pushing the cracked portion out. My hope is that with the little bit gone it wont catch on the outside again. If not I'll take a little more and see if that corrects it.


----------



## domalle (Jul 12, 2015)

LaDukePhoto said:


> Vern is at it again. He's still hunger striking (since I got him about 10 days ago all I have gotten him to eat is a little bit of fruit)
> 
> Today when he yawned and closed his mouth his bottom jaw protruded out over the top and it appears to have a crack. Has anyone ever seen this before?
> 
> ...



It appears to be a double fracture of the mandible and will need specialty repair by a professional to stabilize.
The existing breaks are likely to worsen in time without redress due to the constant challenges posed in the natural course of eating.
And secondary infection is a real danger.
No wonder he is not eating.
@leigti is right to advise caution.


----------



## MPRC (Jul 12, 2015)

His bottom jaw is quite solid, I do not believe it is broken. It just appears to be the small crack in his bottom beak. The previous owner couldn't give me any info as to how long it had been like that as she had 'never noticed' =/. I coerced him into opening his mouth and letting me look at the inside and there is no redness, swelling or discoloration. 

I will gladly take suggestions on vets to visit within a couple hours of me, but right now I'm sick of giving money to people to have them google my issue and tell me quotes from articles I've already read. I'm jaded after a previous visit to an exotic vet that resulted in a $600 vet bill and a dead lizard.

I also believe that he is not eating because he is a stubborn brat. He will gladly take fruit, he is just refusing a healthy diet and we are in a standoff position right now. He has been eating a sugary sweet diet for the last 7 years so correcting it isn't going to be an overnight thing. You can lead a tortoise to greens, but I'm learning you can't make him eat it. I got a bit of chard and red leaf into him today by grinding it up and putting it over squash babyfood with a bit of plum and watermelon, but I still can't get him to take anything that looks like a leaf. 

I really do appreciate the input and I am holding off on doing anything else right now until I get some more feed back.


----------



## MPRC (Jul 12, 2015)

And after all of that I went to go ask Vern his opinion on the situation only to find the offending bit of beak dangling by a thread. Long story short the piece is gone and I'll be watching the area for any issues. - right now it looks like clean healthy beak under the offending spot. I'll see if I can snap a photo some time. 

I'd still love to hear opinions for the sake of posterity if anyone has them!


----------



## CourtneyG (Jul 13, 2015)

I would not be to worried if the jaw seems to be solid still. Beaks are made up of keratin like our nails and horse hooves. If we or a horse get a crack in them and with time new growth will push the old to the end to be filed off, or in this case a large chunk just fell off, as long as he starts eating right new growth should replace it soon. 

Also grinding a beak down can be dangerouse since torts have their own natural serrations to their beak and smoothing those serrations out will lead to life long beak issues.

New pics of how his mouth looks now will help out a bit more on if it is a non worry issue or to see a vet. Is there any pink tissue exposed where the bit fell off?


----------



## Yvonne G (Jul 13, 2015)

Those two cracks are probably painful, especially when he tries to bite on food. I think you're trim idea is a valid one. The beak grows up from the bottom, like your fingernail. So at the bottom of the crack is where it will start to grow without a crack. However, the more he flexes that unsteady piece, the easier the new growth is going to crack also. You're going to have to trim a little bit at a time until you can get it where it is stable. But, remember, it is painful to him, so tiny bits at a time.

If you can figure out a way to artificially stabilize it, that would be good too. But Super Glue stings.


----------



## domalle (Jul 13, 2015)

LaDukePhoto said:


> And after all of that I went to go ask Vern his opinion on the situation only to find the offending bit of beak dangling by a thread. Long story short the piece is gone and I'll be watching the area for any issues. - right now it looks like clean healthy beak under the offending spot. I'll see if I can snap a photo some time.
> 
> I'd still love to hear opinions for the sake of posterity if anyone has them!


 
The injury in the pictures looks more serious to me.
You initially said that "his bottom jaw protruded out over the top and it appears to have a crack."
The terms beak, jaw and mandible are often used interchangeably. The beak is the horny covering composed
of keratin that covers the upper and lower jaw (or mandible). 
He is a nice looking little turtle. I wish you the best of luck and hope for no complications.


----------



## MPRC (Jul 13, 2015)

@CourtneyG - In my wall of text up there I mentioned that there is no redness, swelling etc. Still seems to be the case despite that little piece coming off. It was all beak and was solid keratin underneath, no blood or pink. It came off in a "U" shape that seems to have eliminated the cracks. I don't think they will continue.

I'll see if there's a way to get in there and show you guys some photos. 

@Yvonne G I believe you may have been right about it causing discomfort. Today he ate quite a bit more than he has eaten since he got here. I'm not sure if it's because he's finally hungry or because it doesn't hurt him to eat, or if it's because I poured watermelon juice all over his greens. time will tell!


----------

