# Dandelion flower and flower stem



## Carol S

Hi:

Is the dandelion flower and the flower stem also high in oxalic acid like the leaves of the plant? My tort (8 month old Russian) has started really loving the dandelion flower and the stem of the flower whereas before he would turn his little nose up at it and just eat the dandelion leaves. 

Thank you for any information regarding this. 

Carol S. 
Mommy of Turtle Baby


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## Maggie Cummings

Well...I don't know what's in it for sure...but everyday I walk around and collect dandelion leafs, flowers, stems and all and feed them to most of my 27 chelonia. I feed a wide variety of food and dandelions while in season get fed almost daily. Danny will tell you to not feed that often, but I do and I have never seen any damage to any turtle or tortoise I've raised that way...however, I also feed a lot of other stuff aw well...


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## stells

The stems are the worst part where the Oxalic acid is of a higher value... i do feed Dandelions but only once or twice per week.... and NEVER feed the stems...


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## terryo

Well, this is scary...I've been feeding the whole plant..stems and all almost every other day to my Cherry Head for two years now....


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## sammi

Yeah me too..everytime I feed him dandelions I let him eat the whole thing...I'd say I feed them to him about once every other day. Unless I see a whole mess of them at once, then I pick them daily for a couple days.


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## stells

Of course i am only saying what i do... some species seem more prone to producing stones than others... and i have learnt the hard way... which caused me to change my diet for all my tortoises and to research it more.... all you can do is research for yourself and take all info into account...


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## sammi

Kelly, what species of tortoise to you have?


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## stells

Horsfields... a few different subs of spur thigh/greeks... Hermanns... Stars


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## tortoisenerd

My tort had a stone a couple months after I got him, and I still wonder why. I keep him on a lower oxalic acid diet just in case. Sadly this means he gets more lettuces than weeds.


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## GBtortoises

During the warmer months my tortoises diet is comprised of close to 25% dandelion plants (leaves, flowers & stems), if not more. Along with several other weeds and plants, it grows here wild, it's free and I need alot of it! I have never had any kinds of problems associated with it whatsoever. The rest of their wild diet is made up of clover, vetch, plantain, chicory, lambswort and much more. I pick huge amounts, the equivalent of two 33 gallon trash bags every other day on average. Sometimes it contains less dandelion, sometimes much more, depending upon what field I'm picking it in. I don't even attempt to regulate it and have never, ever had a problem.


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## Madkins007

Dandelion stems: Pretty much any time a plant makes a white juice, it will be high in oxalic acid.

Tortoises and oxalic acid: I know that oxalic acid is a major buzzword in a lot of tortoise circles, and that there are a lot of reasons for this, such as the experience of people like tortoisenerd and stells, but there are also a lot of people, such as Dr. Douglas Mader and others who seem to poo-poo the whole idea. (Dr. Douglas Mader, "Reptile Medicine and Surgery")

They see the problem as one of dehydration first, then as other issues, including vitamin D and a generally poor calcium metabolism. 

Tortoises of nearly all species eat plants that are so high in oxalates that they are considered toxic to humans- some of the plants they eat in the wild are so full of this acid that if the acid gets on our skin, it will burn us.

However, wild tortoises also manage their hydration better than we usually do, and wild tortoises are often found with stones.

I agree with Stella- play it safe and research. Tortoises do not seem to need or benefit from oxalates, so skipping them won't bother them at all. The only thing is that using plants with oxalates in moderation in a varied diet just offers you more choices.

I would only add that it is important to remember that a lot of bad things happen to dehydrated tortoises, so fix this before you worry too much about other dietary issues.


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## stells

As i have said before... if the tortoise i had the problem with was dehydrated i would have owned up in an instant... i have about things in the past and am not afraid of doing so... not all my tortoises have produced stones... it was one out of twenty six that did so... she was bathed and drank at bathtime and from the waterbowl in her enclosure... but on watching her eat my varied diet which did include food high in Oxalic acid... i noticed her picking out these foods... so could only pin point it to a dietry issue...


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## Madkins007

I'm sorry, Kelly- I did not mean to imply that dehydration was an issue in your case. 



As long as I still have dehydration on the mind, I noticed I forgot to add a comment about dehydration. Mike Pingleton (The Redfoot Manual) pointed me to the 'Donoghue Formula' that helps us catch dehydration early.

Take the length in centimeters, raise it to the third power, and multiply by 0.191 to get the minimum body weight in grams. (or, weight in cm^3 x 0.191 = min. weight in grams).

I ran this on my Red-foots and saw an interesting but disturbing trend- they were drying out when outside, but doing OK indoors. None looked dehydrated, but they were not in quite as good shape as when they weighed more than the predicted level.


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