# Breeding Russians: For Dummies



## Tyanna (Dec 9, 2014)

Hi!

I want to start by saying I am by no means ready to breed Russians, but it is something I would like to attempt in the future when ideal space is available and I am more knowledgeable. I would like to know anything and everything YOU know about breeding, techniques, tips, etc!

Few questions off the top of my head:

Can I have 1:1 ratio, keep them separate usually, but house them together (maybe few hours a day outside or outside all day, in at night seperate) for breeding purposes? Would this be successful or would a 1:3 or 1:4 ratio be more successful with housing together at all times?

Is there a specific time of year they seem to lay?


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## TortoiseRN (Dec 9, 2014)

Tyanna said:


> Hi!
> 
> I want to start by saying I am by no means ready to breed Russians, but it is something I would like to attempt in the future when ideal space is available and I am more knowledgeable. I would like to know anything and everything YOU know about breeding, techniques, tips, etc!
> 
> ...



So a 1:1 ratio is not recommend even if you only keep them together for a few hours a day. Male RTs are extremely aggressive breeders and will hound the female the entire time they are together. This is why you will need at least a 3:1 ratio. As far as laying most breeders get clutches in the spring and fall. 

Another great resource to check out is http://russiantortoise.net I would read through this entire site. Most of the info there this quite reliable. Roaming space will be your biggest concern for successful breeding. You will need a large outdoor enclosure with plenty of naturally growing food. Here's what my RTs enclosure looks like.


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## Tyanna (Dec 9, 2014)

Thank you! I have read your posts about how to keep them. You said something about separating them, is this only when you hibernate? Also, bigger is always better, but would starting with 4x8 outside work?


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## TortoiseRN (Dec 9, 2014)

A 4x8 breeding enclosure is pretty small. When I first started asking questions about breeding RTs both here on TFO and locally I became a quite frustrated. Mostly because I learned that the size of the indoor and outdoor enclosures I planned on using or had already built were not going to be adequate. 

My point is if you want to be successful breeding any tort you will have to be willing give them adequate space.


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## Tyanna (Dec 9, 2014)

TortoiseRN said:


> A 4x8 breeding enclosure is pretty small. When I first started asking questions about breeding RTs both here on TFO and locally I became a quite frustrated. Mostly because I learned that the size of the indoor and outdoor enclosures I planned on using or had already built were not going to be adequate.
> 
> My point is if you want to be successful breeding any tort you will have to be willing give them adequate space.



Understood, which is why I asked. I know the 4x8 is even small. Obviously, I would shoot for bigger. Just curious. I wasn't sure if a breeding enclosure needed to be even bigger than the "smallest" 4x8 suggestion.

Also, thought on a 2:1 ratio? Or is that pushing it?


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## TortoiseRN (Dec 9, 2014)

Sorry I missed your first question. Yes the only time I separate them is when I bring them inside to start preparing them for hibernation. But they are in a 20x20 ft enclosure. So there are plenty on hiding places for the females.


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## Tyanna (Dec 9, 2014)

TortoiseRN said:


> Sorry I missed your first question. Yes the only time I separate them is when I bring them inside to start preparing them for hibernation. But they are in a 20x20 ft enclosure. So there are plenty on hiding places for the females.



Not a problem, I'm full of a ton of questions. I'm really interested in this. So with a big enclosure, do you feel 2:1 is too small of a ratio due to their aggressive breeding?


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## TortoiseRN (Dec 9, 2014)

2:1 is a start but you will want to eventually increase your females numbers.


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## Tyanna (Dec 9, 2014)

TortoiseRN said:


> 2:1 is a start but you will want to eventually increase your females numbers.



You're wonderful. Sorry for all the questions. I want to suck in all the info and advice I can get before I try anything.


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## TortoiseRN (Dec 9, 2014)

No problem. Ask way.


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## Yellow Turtle01 (Dec 9, 2014)

TortoiseRN said:


> 2:1 is a start but you will want to eventually increase your females numbers.


Your male would be in heaven, Tyanna!


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## Yellow Turtle01 (Dec 9, 2014)

This is also something I'd love to get into someday, but a tricky thing! Interesting thread, thanks!!


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## Tyanna (Dec 9, 2014)

Yellow Turtle01 said:


> Your male would be in heaven, Tyanna!



Wouldn't every male?


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## Yellow Turtle01 (Dec 9, 2014)

Tyanna said:


> Wouldn't every male?


HA! Can mine come over?


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## Earth Mama (Dec 9, 2014)

TortoiseRN said:


> So a 1:1 ratio is not recommend even if you only keep them together for a few hours a day. Male RTs are extremely aggressive breeders and will hound the female the entire time they are together. This is why you will need at least a 3:1 ratio. As far as laying most breeders get clutches in the spring and fall.
> 
> Another great resource to check out is http://russiantortoise.net I would read through this entire site. Most of the info there this quite reliable. Roaming space will be your biggest concern for successful breeding. You will need a large outdoor enclosure with plenty of naturally growing food. Here's what my RTs enclosure looks like.
> View attachment 109144
> ...


Pictures are sometimes deceiving...what are the approx dimensions of your enclosure. Thanks!


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## TortoiseRN (Dec 9, 2014)

It's a little over 20x20


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## Team Gomberg (Dec 9, 2014)

I tried to keep a 1:3 group in an outdoor pen while I lived in SoCal. It was 20'x6' and still too small. It was heavily planted and I have photos of it in multiple threads. I thought it'd work but the male hounded the girls to the point that 2 stopped coming out to eat and bask. Then the 3rd became the sole focus of his attention. I hated seeing him constantly on her...he was a brutal rapist.
I moved the male to his own 17'x8' and the girls did better....until 1 female dominated the other 2 and I had the same problems, minus rape.

I don't share this to talk you out of it...But to show you what you could face. Be prepared to do much more space than I did. That 20'x20' at least!
Be prepared to witness rough breeding and be ok with it..I wasn't.
Be prepared to separate if needed. I didn't want to keep separate Russian pens so I didn't keep the Russians.

Hope this helps you in your consideration. I'm all for more people breeding them, I wanted to, also.... But it wasn't for me. Hopefully, it's for you!


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## Earth Mama (Dec 9, 2014)

In spring I plan to build a larger outdoor russian pen. Until recently I had just one male. I now have 2 females also. I plan on dividing the one large pen into 3 smaller ones with some kind of easily removable walls..or a gate or some such thing. This way I can let them mingle while supervised and easily separate them. This way, I can try to breed them or not but its still one main enclosure. Looks good on paper anyway


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## Tyanna (Dec 9, 2014)

Team Gomberg said:


> I tried to keep a 1:3 group in an outdoor pen while I lived in SoCal. It was 20'x6' and still too small. It was heavily planted and I have photos of it in multiple threads. I thought it'd work but the male hounded the girls to the point that 2 stopped coming out to eat and bask. Then the 3rd became the sole focus of his attention. I hated seeing him constantly on her...he was a brutal rapist.
> I moved the male to his own 17'x8' and the girls did better....until 1 female dominated the other 2 and I had the same problems, minus rape.
> 
> I don't share this to talk you out of it...But to show you what you could face. Be prepared to do much more space than I did. That 20'x20' at least!
> ...



Thank you for sharing the not-so-cool side of breeding Russians! That is exactly why I'm doing more research and am not jumping into things. I enjoy my little guy as it is right now, but breeding is definitely an option! I will be thinking about your "hardships" and keep it in mind with my decision!


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## biochemnerd808 (Dec 11, 2014)

Great advice above!

Breeding Russian tortoises can be a little tricky because they are such territorial little buggers. Finding the right balance of having a HUGE enclosure AND keeping the females happy and healthy, while creating opportunities for mating at the right time... but no TOO MUCH... and the females have to be ready to breed, or they won't lay fertile eggs. 

Before starting any breeding, I recommend making sure the females are SUPER DUPER healthy. Plenty of calcium on board, strong legs (for digging and walking), and that the enclosure is built with lots of good hides and retreat options, but also with a zone in the sunny area that has nice soft dirt (dumping 3-4 bags of topsoil in the area you would prefer for them to nest will help you find the nests if you miss the laying event!)

Males can sometimes be clumsy, and I sometimes marvel that any eggs get fertilized at all (e.g. really, Roz? You're humping her side now.) Have a first aid kit on hand, because scales do get lost, and sometimes the nares get bitten. I have a hard time seeing that, and so except for Springtime for a couple weeks, the males end up in solitary confinement. Towards the hot part of Summer, they quit being interested in mating (at least the last 2 years), so I had them all together.

I think it is wonderful that you are working on pursuing this endeavor - we need more CB RT babies. Please don't be disappointed if it takes a few years.  It did for me.


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## leigti (Dec 11, 2014)

Earth Mama said:


> In spring I plan to build a larger outdoor russian pen. Until recently I had just one male. I now have 2 females also. I plan on dividing the one large pen into 3 smaller ones with some kind of easily removable walls..or a gate or some such thing. This way I can let them mingle while supervised and easily separate them. This way, I can try to breed them or not but its still one main enclosure. Looks good on paper anyway


I have a large outdoor L-shaped pin. It is approximately 15' x 10'.it was for my Russian tortoise. But then I was given a female box turtle so for the short term I blocked off one part of it for her. my Russian, a female, would spend a lot of time pacing and Climbing and trying to climb along that one wall that I blocked. I think she knew there was another tortoise type critter over there and wanted to get to it. I could be completely wrong and I definitely hope so many corrects me if I am, but I have a feeling your tortoises would know the others are on the other side of the wall and may try to get to them by climbing or digging etc. she may have just done this because she was wondering why her doorway was blocked. There was an opening about 2 feet wide for her to go through only prior to me blocking it. This was two females, I wonder if it would be even worse with a male. Just a thought, your idea could work very well. Maybe some more experienced Russian breeders will tell me if I'm right or wrong on this.


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## leigti (Dec 11, 2014)

I think it is great that you want to try to breed the Russian tortoises. although I would like to breed mine I know that I am not set up for it. I have decided that if I ever need to find a home for my tortoise I will try to find somebody who is breeding them, females seem to be harder to find so it should be easy enough to find her a good home if needed. My local vetseems to know that I am a sucker and will take in strays  so if there is ever a female Russian available I will go ahead and take it temporarily and then let the forum know that I have it so that maybe it can go to somebody who is set up for breeding them.


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## Team Gomberg (Dec 11, 2014)

Here's a quick photo of the 20'x6' pen I used for the 1:3 group. MUCH more space was needed if I had wanted to continue working with the group.

I share these to give you ideas of how even this wasn't enough  Hope it helps


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