# gender goosebumps



## dr_butterfly (Aug 22, 2012)

hi everybody, i got 2 tortoises, supposedly a female (tort) and a male (oise)
so far tort and oise have been living together for 5 years now...and they haven't got any babies yet.. i'm afraid they r both females :S
tort, a golden greek, about 5.5"
oise, an eastern hermann's, about 5"
but i'm afraid that both r females! can u guys help me and tell me some good news that i got a male and a female?!

tort:






oise:





thanks in advance


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## CourtneyAndCarl (Aug 22, 2012)

They aren't breeding because they aren't of the same species. I don't even know if they can genetically reproduce together, but even if they could, you shouldn't. It's bad practice to create hybrids like that.


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## Julius25 (Aug 22, 2012)

looks like 2 females :s


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## Tom (Aug 22, 2012)

Why on earth are you attempting to breed two different species? Or even housing them together for that matter?


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## GBtortoises (Aug 22, 2012)

You don't have a Greek species and an Eastern Hermann's species. You have two Greek subspecies, which can successfully breed and produce fertile offspring. By the way, "Golden" Greeks are not a species or subspecies. It's just a common name used to describe any one of several Middle Eastern and/or North African origin Greek subspecies that may have been born with little dark coloration. Any given Golden Greek may be from anyone of a half dozen different subspecies.
It's difficult to tell without seeing the tails extended but they both look like they could be females. Would have to see different photos.


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## dr_butterfly (Aug 22, 2012)

honestly i had no intentions at all to breed 2 different species...the day we bought them all our aim was to breed torts so we bought a male and a female...the pet shop we got them from didn't inform us anything about species issues... actually after researches i found that out.. even my bro thought of them as 2 golden greeks but just not so far i found out they are 2 different species...i'll post a pic of each from their carapace, in case i've mistaken with the species, hope someone confirms them 








GBtortoises said:


> You don't have a Greek species and an Eastern Hermann's species. You have two Greek subspecies, which can successfully breed and produce fertile offspring. By the way, "Golden" Greeks are not a species or subspecies. It's just a common name used to describe any one of several Middle Eastern and/or North African origin Greek subspecies that may have been born with little dark coloration. Any given Golden Greek may be from anyone of a half dozen different subspecies.
> It's difficult to tell without seeing the tails extended but they both look like they could be females. Would have to see different photos.



interesting...would you specify the photos u would like to see and surely i'll take a shot of them


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## GBtortoises (Aug 22, 2012)

The tortoise on the left appears to be an Ibera Greek, _Testudo (gracea) ibera_, the one the right may be an Antykan Greek which some consider either a southern Ibera or it's own subspecies, _T. gracea antakyensis_.


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## Eweezyfosheezy (Aug 22, 2012)

I agree with GB about the subspecies. Where are you located? Those tortoises are both captive bred so someone must have brought them in and sold them to the pet shop. Can you ask the pet shop who they got them from?


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## dr_butterfly (Aug 23, 2012)

Eweezyfosheezy said:


> I agree with GB about the subspecies. Where are you located? Those tortoises are both captive bred so someone must have brought them in and sold them to the pet shop. Can you ask the pet shop who they got them from?



my location is in saudi arabia at the moment. and regarding the point of asking the pet shop..its quite difficult as we bought them 5 years back.. =/


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