# Tortoise Nursery Room



## theguy67 (May 14, 2017)

Although my breeding is a bit slow, my collection of hatchlings is still growing. I've been needing somewhere to keep them that will last for a couple years. Then I dawned on me, I use to have a building just for that...


A long time ago, in a galaxy...not so far away, I had a shed. This little shed was built well. It had "enclosures" that were built in, like a free standing shelf, but anchored to the walls. They weren't much. Very over built. Had silly frames for doors with clear plastic stretched over them. I housed my geckos and bearded dragons in here, and it worked well. Years passed, and I got out of the lizard hobby. The enclosures were ripped out, shelves saved, and was used for storage. 

I'm starting with the middle shelf. It measures nearly 2ft deep, by 10.5 feet long, and 18 inches high. 
I've thought about painting the exposed surfaces of wood on the inside of the enclosure with a acrylic based paint. I'd then add some sort of liner. Shower curtain perhaps. 

For doors, I'm thinking of getting tracks, and doing either acrylic or glass sliding doors. There is a brace in the center, so there will probably be 2 sets of doors on either side. 

This will be a slow-ish build, as I can only really work on it during the weekend.


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## Tom (May 14, 2017)

Awesome! I love it. Keep us updated on how it goes and what you end up doing with it. I need something like this too...


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## wellington (May 14, 2017)

Glad that light bulb went off going to be a great use for it. Like Tom said, keep us updated with progress and pics please.


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## theguy67 (May 14, 2017)

Tom said:


> Awesome! I love it. Keep us updated on how it goes and what you end up doing with it. I need something like this too...





wellington said:


> Glad that light bulb went off going to be a great use for it. Like Tom said, keep us updated with progress and pics please.



Will do. It will be used for small redfoots. There's 3 levels total that I could potentially turn into enclosures, but I will only be doing one for now. I like the length, as I could leave it open for them to use, or put up barriers if there are issues. The room itself is 7ftx14ft, which opens up to a 14ftx14ft room that the adults have access to from the outside. 

I'd really like to get some grass to grow and establish in there The main obstacle will be lighting I assume, but grass might be a simpler plant to grow indoors. 

I hate to have to wait a week, but I should make a lot of progress next weekend. I have 3 yearlings that need to be moved, and 1 egg ready to hatch any day. I painted yesterday and today. I plan on finishing paint next Friday, and do the electrical.


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## theguy67 (May 18, 2017)

Painting of the interior is nearly done. I decided to go ahead and paint the facing a brown color, but that will be started tomorrow. I still need to attach the board on the other side, and the track for the doors which is coming tomorrow.

Still lots of cleaning and hauling junk out of the room as well.


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## theguy67 (May 19, 2017)

Progress being made with paint.



As you can see on the top board (the one painted brown) I really should have faced all of it to present a more finished/clean look, but I didn't feel like messing with it right now. I'll probably find some sort of wood filler and patch the ugly spots then repaint in spots. Sounds like more work in the long run, but it's work that I believe can be done at my leisure,...just here and there. That's just mere aesthetic touch up.


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## theguy67 (May 19, 2017)

My tracks for the doors came today! They are made of a durable plastic that can be easily cut to fit. Next decision...should I paint them? I'd like for them to blend with the wood, but I don't think it's a good idea to paint a surface that will be experiencing friction, although I could just paint the outside?


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## theguy67 (May 21, 2017)

This weekend proved moderately productive:
I worked in the outside enclosure mostly, while I waited for other supplies to arrive.

Painting is "finished". I ordered some wood filler for some gaps, and other troubled spots that I can then sand down and paint, but all of the larger surfaces are painted.

Electrical was kinda started. I'm just dropping boxes behind the top board, like they were in the past.

I have to wait to put the dirt until until I have my liner. I was late with getting a shower curtain, and I suppose I should get electrical finished first.

I will have the plexiglass sometime this week. So hopefully Friday will be super productive as everything now is just waiting on materials. The brown paint I've been using successfully adhered to the plastic track, which is good news. I can't wait for the doors to be in place. 

I have also ordered some grass seed mix from Tortoise Supply, in hopes to grow some in the cage. For lighting, I am going to try LED. I have 2 reef fixtures that are dimmable. I haven't read any negative experience with LEDs and tortoises. I may attach some frosted glass/plastic to the fixtures to help diffuse the light so its not so harsh directly below it. It should be enough light to sustain smaller plants, like grass and weeds. I think since these aren't flowering or fruiting plants, the demand for light won't be as high....And ,of course, there will be a fluorescent fixture for the UV bulb.

There are also plans to run water inside the building. The tortoise pen (which wraps around the back and one side of the building) is already irrigated with sprinklers set to an electric timer. I would like to also run irrigation inside for the enclosure(s). There are 2 more channels on the controller box, so I should be able to program the enclosure's irrigation from the same one I use for the outside pen. This part will probably be last.


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## theguy67 (May 23, 2017)

Tracks are painted and glued into place. Electrical is done. Now I just have to go pick up my plexiglass and cut the doors, put down the liner and dirt, and hang the lights. I'm also going to continue painting the rest of the shelving unit. Will probably do that before I put any substrate down to give the room time to air out.


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## theguy67 (May 24, 2017)

Doors are in!!! Just waiting to peel the covers off. Did some more painting too. Need to clean up the room, hang the lights and let things air out for a few days.







Quick question: what would you do for ventilation? There's a small space between the 2 plexiglass sheets, but everything is pretty tight. Not really sure where to drill holes.

Would like some feedback, let me know what you think so far!


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## tortdad (May 24, 2017)

Why would you drill holes in a sealed closed chamber? Holes mean losing heat and humidity which is counter productive to a closed chamber. 

Don't be scared of a closed chamber. 

You change our food and water daily which will exchange more than enough oxygen for your tort. If your tort can survive in a tiny box for 24hrs while being shipped it can certainly handle a large closed chamber.


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## theguy67 (May 25, 2017)

tortdad said:


> Why would you drill holes in a sealed closed chamber? Holes mean losing heat and humidity which is counter productive to a closed chamber.
> 
> Don't be scared of a closed chamber.
> 
> You change our food and water daily which will exchange more than enough oxygen for your tort. If your tort can survive in a tiny box for 24hrs while being shipped it can certainly handle a large closed chamber.



I've seen others provide ventilation, and I wouldn't describe closed chambers as "sealed", at least not this one-which may answer my question.

I suppose I won't worry about it for now. The small gaps between the plexi may be enough. Who knows I may wind up adding weather stripping after I fail to keep humidity high.


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## tortdad (May 25, 2017)

theguy67 said:


> I've seen others provide ventilation, and I wouldn't describe closed chambers as "sealed", at least not this one-which may answer my question.
> 
> I suppose I won't worry about it for now. The small gaps between the plexi may be enough. Who knows I may wind up adding weather stripping after I fail to keep humidity high.



I was nervous the first time i built a closed chamber and added vents. It was just as you mentioned.... my humidity and temps were way better than what I had but I still struggled to get it to stay in my "sweet spot". After a couple weeks I sealed up the vents and my box held up like a champ. They really are low maintenance once you get get it down. That consistency is what's going to keep your tort healthy, stress free and provide some sexy growth.


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## Yo Adrien (May 25, 2017)

@tortdad.."sexy growth"?! LOL


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## theguy67 (May 25, 2017)

tortdad said:


> I was nervous the first time i built a closed chamber and added vents. It was just as you mentioned.... my humidity and temps were way better than what I had but I still struggled to get it to stay in my "sweet spot". After a couple weeks I sealed up the vents and my box held up like a champ. They really are low maintenance once you get get it down. That consistency is what's going to keep your tort healthy, stress free and provide some sexy growth.



That makes sense. I suppose this is my first "true" closed chamber, as the others were converted. I knew the whole idea of closed chamber was to contain the air, but instinctively assumed there would be SOME ventilation.Thanks for talking me down!


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## theguy67 (Jun 3, 2017)

Enclosure is finished. It's holding nicely at 83, with just over 80% humidity.




The other side is identical, just not lit, as I only have 2 LED lamps. The room is too narrow for a full shot.










I'm currently using LEDs, but I may forego them and use fluorescent. It seems they are still superior to LED for growing plants, at least in cost and electricity. Due to LEDs poor spread I would need many more fixtures. Also, my current lights are too far on the blue side of the spectrum. It would be much easier to cover the entire enclosure with 2, 4ft fluorescent fixtures rather than half a dozen LED units ( not to mention that would be harsh on the little ones eyes).

I just moved them in, so I still need to add their burrow/humid hide, but they were certainly checking everything out. I currently have a divider to keep them away from the grass for now. I just removed it for pictures.


The goal of growing and maintaining a turf for 24/7 grazing is mainly an experiment. I will update on this thread if it is successful, plus any other remodels in the room as I continue.


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## Oxalis (Jun 3, 2017)

theguy67 said:


> Enclosure is finished. It's holding nicely at 83, with just over 80% humidity.
> 
> View attachment 209449
> 
> ...


Thanks for posting; this is a pretty cool project. We're re-building our indoor Russian enclosure and I'll be facing the same challenge of lighting some indoor plants for his food. Maybe a combination of fluorescent and LEDs would be sufficient? I'm excited to see your progress! Also, what kind of substrate are you using, just plain dirt? I haven't decided for mine yet.


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## theguy67 (Jun 4, 2017)

Oxalis said:


> Thanks for posting; this is a pretty cool project. We're re-building our indoor Russian enclosure and I'll be facing the same challenge of lighting some indoor plants for his food. Maybe a combination of fluorescent and LEDs would be sufficient? I'm excited to see your progress! Also, what kind of substrate are you using, just plain dirt? I haven't decided for mine yet.



I'll probably just use 2 4ft florescent T8 fixtures. If the grass/weeds need more, Ill add 2 more, but I think that would be enough. You COULD supplement with LED, but it would have to be a long strip. My main issue is that LEDs create a spotlight effect. Its possible that even the florescent will fail, so I'm just doing it for experiment sake. If the entire enclosure is still too small to meet the grazing demands of 3 small tortoises, I may put a divider in the middle, and move them between the two sections as the grass recovers from their grazing.


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## theguy67 (Jun 4, 2017)

Also, the substrate is a type of organic topsoil, with a little mulch. I'm going to add peatmoss.


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## Oxalis (Jun 5, 2017)

theguy67 said:


> Also, the substrate is a type of organic topsoil, with a little mulch. I'm going to add peatmoss.


Very nice. I like it. Can't wait to see more pictures as the plants and torts grow.


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## theguy67 (Jun 16, 2017)

My plan may be working!




The grass and tortoise seed is growing well, although I am still switching to T8 Fluorescent this weekend as I believe that will produce the best growth. 




Some of the plants do appear to be, somewhat, light deficient; although, they look a lot better than I assumed they would at this point.


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## Oxalis (Jun 16, 2017)

theguy67 said:


> My plan may be working!
> 
> View attachment 210449
> 
> ...


Thanks for your experiments! I really need to start looking into the lighting for our new Russian enclosure.


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## theguy67 (Jun 17, 2017)

I switched to fluorescents today and the coverage looks a lot better. The light is in the3- 5000k range too, so it's much warmer. I put in 3 lamps. 2 on the left and 1 on the right. Once the left side is mature and ready, I will remove the divider and add a 4th lamp if deemed necessary. 



















Humidity is up!


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## Oxalis (Jun 18, 2017)

theguy67 said:


> I switched to fluorescents today and the coverage looks a lot better. The light is in the3- 5000k range too, so it's much warmer. I put in 3 lamps. 2 on the left and 1 on the right. Once the left side is mature and ready, I will remove the divider and add a 4th lamp if deemed necessary.
> 
> View attachment 210575
> 
> ...


That definitely looks a lot bright. Have you noticed your tort is more active since that change as well?


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## theguy67 (Jun 18, 2017)

Oxalis said:


> That definitely looks a lot bright. Have you noticed your tort is more active since that change as well?



They're a little more active, especially with a lamp on their side. Since its summer they do get outside time, but I still need to add their UV lamp.

It seems to be more light, but not as intense. This is due to the florescent spreading the light more evenly. AND since there's more coverage, I was able to plant more seed. I'm also going to plant some seed in trays (grown outdoors) to be planted on the right side once the divider is removed. 

The weeds will have to be reseeded, as I'm expecting those to be devoured. This experiment hinges on the Bermuda grass to become established, as you would see in a lawn. It is a fast growing, running grass, so I am hoping that once the rhizomes mature under the soil, it will be able to handle being nibbled on. The Bermuda in the adult's pen is just fine. They keep it cut short, but they also don't eat it all the way back. 

IF this fails, I may look for a larger plant that is edible. One they can only trim the bottom branches, and hide under. Maybe some sort of rose or flowering plant? I know hibiscus would love the humidity. My plans would change from a grassy field, to more of a forest floor.


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## Oxalis (Jun 20, 2017)

theguy67 said:


> They're a little more active, especially with a lamp on their side. Since its summer they do get outside time, but I still need to add their UV lamp.
> 
> It seems to be more light, but not as intense. This is due to the florescent spreading the light more evenly. AND since there's more coverage, I was able to plant more seed. I'm also going to plant some seed in trays (grown outdoors) to be planted on the right side once the divider is removed.
> 
> ...


My hibiscus can be a slow grower here, mostly because Michigan is not the optimal climate for this tropics lover. But we do have a native species here nonetheless. I don't have experience growing it indoors so more power to you!  It may be a much quicker grower with more light, warmth, and humidity. Remember to watch out for the thorns on the rose!


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## theguy67 (Jun 30, 2017)

Considering the rapid plant growth and his small size, I've decided to move my 6 week old into the planted side of the "experiment enclosure". I think it's safe to conclude this to be a success for keeping hatchlings on a indoor grazing "field" that can support their demands. This replicates how the adults are kept outdoors, but with higher humidity and stable temps. It will be several weeks before I can put the yearlings on the grass as I'm still waiting for the roots to mature.


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## janevicki (Jun 30, 2017)

theguy67 said:


> Enclosure is finished. It's holding nicely at 83, with just over 80% humidity.
> 
> View attachment 209449
> 
> ...


LOL It looks like your torts are on a different planet with the Blue LED lighting you have in their new home. Keeping with the Star Wars theme!


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## theguy67 (Jul 1, 2017)

janevicki said:


> LOL It looks like your torts are on a different planet with the Blue LED lighting you have in their new home. Keeping with the Star Wars theme!



Lol, yes. I wanted to give them a try since I had them left over from my 55 gallon reef tank. I was optimistic, but quickly realized they wouldn't work.


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## theguy67 (Nov 25, 2017)

It’s been a while, but I’m still trying to get my indoor grazing enclosure going...







The grass has gotten much thicker and more mature. I’ve continued to move my efforts toward the left as it all grows. Some of it may seem dead, his that’s just some die off. The grass was up to the light but I cut it all back to stimulate more shoots to come up. I think mid December I will be ready to put the two larger 2 year olds on it. My hatchling from last summer has been in there from the start.


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## Yvonne G (Nov 26, 2017)

Nice. I truly love the shelf-type enclosures. I have one in each tortoise shed, but mine aren't nearly as nice as yours. I'm surprised you were able to get anything to grow while the enclosure was inhabited. Those darned tortoises trample everything!


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## Markw84 (Nov 26, 2017)

@theguy67 Just saw this thread and love your "experiment". A few comments about growing grass indoors:

The "boring/nerd explaination = The red end of the spectrum is helpful in getting new growth and plants to sprout - chlorophyll-b peaks highest here. But plants will often look thin and straggly if this is the main lighting. Thicker blade development will be encouraged by bluer light. Light in the 400-500nm range is used for active photosynthesis with more chlorophyll-a peaking here. As a result, your commercially available grow light are weighted towards a spectrum balance of both 400-500nm light along with 650-700nm light.

SO... adding a bit more 5500-6000K fluorescents or LEDs will help the vigor and thickness of your plants. You may also find adding a good UVB light as you intend to do will also help with this.


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## theguy67 (Nov 26, 2017)

Yvonne G said:


> Nice. I truly love the shelf-type enclosures. I have one in each tortoise shed, but mine aren't nearly as nice as yours. I'm surprised you were able to get anything to grow while the enclosure was inhabited. Those darned tortoises trample everything!



Thanks! Grass is very forgiving of being trampled on, but tortoises love new sprouts. I eventually pulled out the weeds and put up a divider so the grass could grow. The 2 older "babies" are on the other side of the board at the end of the enclosure. The hatchling can hardly do any damage to more mature plants, although he can still wipe out an entire plot of seedlings. 

Oh and by the way. Some of the grass on the far end came from the pack of seeds you sent me. Some of it is already producing seeds itself! Thanks!


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## theguy67 (Nov 26, 2017)

Markw84 said:


> @theguy67 Just saw this thread and love your "experiment". A few comments about growing grass indoors:
> 
> The "boring/nerd explaination = The red end of the spectrum is helpful in getting new growth and plants to sprout - chlorophyll-b peaks highest here. But plants will often look thin and straggly if this is the main lighting. Thicker blade development will be encouraged by bluer light. Light in the 400-500nm range is used for active photosynthesis with more chlorophyll-a peaking here. As a result, your commercially available grow light are weighted towards a spectrum balance of both 400-500nm light along with 650-700nm light.
> 
> SO... adding a bit more 5500-6000K fluorescents or LEDs will help the vigor and thickness of your plants. You may also find adding a good UVB light as you intend to do will also help with this.



I guess I had it backwards. Thought blue kick started chlorophyll b. Although to be fair, I did not do much reading up on it for this project. I just used my basic knowledge gained from growing coral. And my dad had some spare bulbs laying around, so I just snagged those.

Although my plant growth has exceeded my expectations (plants are a decent shade of green, fast growth, etc.), I see some of the stringy-ness you are referring to. I may swap out a few bulbs with more blue ones and see how that goes.


Anyone have ideas of a tortoise safe fertilizer? I need to replace the nutrients ( at some point) I am removing when I cut the grass back.


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## Markw84 (Nov 26, 2017)

Not sure what type grass you are growing A shade tolerant one would do the best and in our enclosures a warm season grass. Zoysia probably fits that best and probably St Augustine


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## theguy67 (Nov 26, 2017)

It is mostly Bermuda (like 99%). There's a few sprouts of another type, but I chose Bermuda because of how quickly it spreads and grows. It also likes warm/wet weather (you probably know all of this). It's not exactly shade tolerant, but I know my adults eat it. I may get some other types, and plant them in there for comparison. I also regularly plant from a mix of seeds. 

I will take a before picture, next time I cut it all down. This is the first time I've really cut it all the way back. I could have gone further, but didn't want to push my luck.


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## Oxalis (Nov 28, 2017)

theguy67 said:


> Anyone have ideas of a tortoise safe fertilizer? I need to replace the nutrients ( at some point) I am removing when I cut the grass back.


That's really looking good!  I'm super jealous!

As for plant food, I make sure to compost only the best all-natural ingredients in my backyard; these are mostly:

used coffee grounds (unflavored),
used tea leaves (mostly plain teas),
banana peels (and other fruit/veggie pieces),
uneaten tortoise food (plant-based),
egg shells,
indoor plant trimmings,
yard leaves and small sticks,
used tortoise substrate (plant-based),
ashes from our backyard fire pit (we only burn untreated wood),
and of course, tortoise poopies! (as my tort is completely herbivorous)
I try to keep everything around my tortoise as natural/chemical-free as I possibly can. After a while, I'll rotate the soil so that the materials added most recently are at the bottom of the bin. This helps them to decompose faster. Then you have delicious, recycled compost, which is the perfect plant food!  Add it on top of the plant's soil or mix it in so the roots can get to it faster. This returns the much needed nutrients to the soil without the use of dangerous fertilizer chemicals.

After my Halloween gourds started to get moldy last year, I threw them in our compost bin and was really surprised at how fast they decomposed!! I further broke up the hard rinds with a shovel. Obviously the seeds are still around in the soil, some of which grew back the next year (I didn't mind), but I kind of sift through the compost to keep more "unprocessed" pieces in the bin. That way the stuff I bring back inside for the tortoise plants looks a little nicer.

Here's some good info on plant nutrients: http://homeguides.sfgate.com/nitrogen-phosphate-potash-plants-22325.html


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## theguy67 (Nov 29, 2017)

Oxalis said:


> That's really looking good!  I'm super jealous!
> 
> As for plant food, I make sure to compost only the best all-natural ingredients in my backyard; these are mostly:
> 
> ...



Thanks. I'll look into composting. Sometimes I turn some clippings under the substrate. I also have some beetles and pill bugs in there. I do not know if they are staying, but I may get some red worms and add those too. I think they would be more inclined to remain in the soil.


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## Salspi (Nov 29, 2017)

Very cool setup man


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## Oxalis (Nov 30, 2017)

theguy67 said:


> Thanks. I'll look into composting. Sometimes I turn some clippings under the substrate. I also have some beetles and pill bugs in there. I do not know if they are staying, but I may get some red worms and add those too. I think they would be more inclined to remain in the soil.


Rock on. I love nature's plant/mulch cycle.


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## theguy67 (Dec 11, 2017)

I added an irrigation system yesterday! Works very well. I just need to hook it up to my electric valve. Right now it’s just on the faucet. After I have the valve wired to the controller, I’ll be-able to have it spray the enclosure down everyday. I’m not always there (due to school) so my father takes care of them. This means the enclosure dries out some between watering, although the babies always have water available. I will be very curious to see how the grass responds. 



Grass growth after a few weeks.


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## Oxalis (Dec 11, 2017)

theguy67 said:


> View attachment 224838
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> 
> View attachment 224839
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Can't wait to see!


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## theguy67 (May 26, 2018)

Well It has been a while. I have not made much progress on the "nursery room", as I have been occupied with the outdoor pen, and related things. Now that it is summer, I've turned my focus back on renovating the room. 

As far as the "grass experiment" goes...I Lost most of my Bermuda over the winter. I honestly do not know what happened, but this time I have tried transplanting from the yard. Seems to be working much better this time.


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## NorCal tortoise guy (May 28, 2018)

Enjoyed reading you progress I'm going to be starting on my own tortoise nursery room soon!


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## theguy67 (May 29, 2018)

NorCal tortoise guy said:


> Enjoyed reading you progress I'm going to be starting on my own tortoise nursery room soon!



Thanks. Hopefully I will be moving on to the "room" part of the tortoise nursery room. I'm going to be making doors for cabinets and floating shelves. Once that is done I can organize everything (code for hiding the junk) and start on the enclosure above this one.


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## theguy67 (Jan 10, 2019)

So it has been a while since I have updated the nursery room. Quick summary....

The grass experiment finally failed. Both attempts lead to the grass eventually turning brown and dying. I’m not sure if it’s too much water, or not enough nutrients. Either way, grass is much more demanding than I had originally thought. I’m taking a different approach. As I did in the beginning, I’m going to constantly seed the bottom enclosure from my tortoise plant mix. Larger juveniles will decimate the plants but my hatchlings are small enough to allow the vegetation to grow. This will give them something to graze on.

On another note. I FINALLY finished the top enclosure. I also filled and sanded the fronts of the unit to give it a cleaner look. There are currently 4 hatchlings in the bottom and 2 juveniles in the top. Please excuse my messy wiring.

I also added a counter top and shelves to the room. I’m currently working on staining the floors, so there's still much more to come. As I progress further, I will take some better shots of the cages and the room.


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## Oxalis (Jan 19, 2019)

theguy67 said:


> View attachment 261927
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> View attachment 261928
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I too am having trouble growing tortoise plants indoors. The grass is likely full-sun; maybe it's not getting enough light? This seems to be the issue for my indoor plants but I'm also looking into some nutrient options for them.


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## theguy67 (Jan 23, 2019)

Oxalis said:


> I too am having trouble growing tortoise plants indoors. The grass is likely full-sun; maybe it's not getting enough light? This seems to be the issue for my indoor plants but I'm also looking into some nutrient options for them.



I don't think it is a light issue because the plants DID grow...from seed even. It was a high to moderate light plant, but the plants took off. I never inspected the roots fully, and the grass didn't turn yellow, BUT it may have been over-watering or under-watering. 

Either way, it is some what-irrelevant at this point. Hatchlings have low demands for food, and are not very destructive, so it is easy enough to transplant a few clumps from the yard.


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## Oxalis (Jan 24, 2019)

theguy67 said:


> I don't think it is a light issue because the plants DID grow...from seed even. It was a high to moderate light plant, but the plants took off. I never inspected the roots fully, and the grass didn't turn yellow, BUT it may have been over-watering or under-watering.
> 
> Either way, it is some what-irrelevant at this point. Hatchlings have low demands for food, and are not very destructive, so it is easy enough to transplant a few clumps from the yard.


Interesting. I will have to check out your lighting fixtures then. Perhaps that will help my plants!  Good luck with your future gardening. The enclosures look pretty sweet and the torts look happy!


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