# Hemlock Mulch



## Mao Senpai (Oct 12, 2010)

I've read that this is safe and some say this isn't... so confusing... just curious to what others have to say and if anyone else has experience with this particular type of substrate... saw it at lowe's today and it was fairly cheap.


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## moswen (Oct 12, 2010)

well, the confusion may come from the fact that some hemlock plants are indeed poisonus: however hemlock mulch is made from the hemlock tree, which is not toxic. i only know that this item is listed non-toxic, i do not know how tortoises react to this particular substrate... sometimes certain oils from certain trees can irritate your tort's skin.


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## Madkins007 (Oct 12, 2010)

That's a new one to me- sorry I don't have any real advice, but does it have any real scent or smell to it?


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## Terry Allan Hall (Oct 12, 2010)

I'd wait on using that until it's been chemically checked out...


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## Mao Senpai (Oct 12, 2010)

So I did some research kinda... and according to the specs for the materials used...
# Percentage of Product Made From Wood (%) : 100
# Primary Specific Wood Species : Hemlock (Tsuga)
# Secondary Specific Wood Species : Eastern Hemlock (Tsuga canadensis)

Seems lot a lot of people recommend it and have used it for their lizards of all sorts and tortoises and was fine. It looks just like dark wood chips... but I am no expert. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsuga

I also read somewhere these are part of the pine family(?) and isn't pine one of the poisonous types of wood for tortoises...


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## Terry Allan Hall (Oct 12, 2010)

Mao Senpai said:


> So I did some research kinda... and according to the specs for the materials used...
> # Percentage of Product Made From Wood (%) : 100
> # Primary Specific Wood Species : Hemlock (Tsuga)
> # Secondary Specific Wood Species : Eastern Hemlock (Tsuga canadensis)
> ...



I wouldn't use that...Pine and Cedar have oils that are toxic to reptiles. Use aspen, reptile carpet, Cypress, etc. Just not Pine or Cedar.

I mix clean potting soil w/ play sand, 50/50...not expensive (guessing, about $2 everytime I do a complete strata change) and never had any problems with this mixture...


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## Mao Senpai (Oct 12, 2010)

I couldn't find cypress anywhere except in those small bags at petco that cost a lot 
I saw other .... rubber material mulches which I definetly want to stay away from in case they eat it or something. Hmm... I know pine and cedar has oils in it that makes it toxic but.... well just curious if hemlock is the same since it's related... if all goes bad then I may just return these and try to find something else or go with some sand and soil mixture :\

On a different note, I read somewhere fir is also toxic? Orchid mulch, reptibark and such have fir as it's ... ingredient so... that confuses me.


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## Mao Senpai (Oct 13, 2010)

So after going through home depot and lowes... I found absolutely nothing.... I could have sworn about two weeks ago home depot had the orchid kind or something.... must be because it's getting cold and they're clearing everything out...


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## Madkins007 (Oct 13, 2010)

Can anyone find any clinical evidence that pine is harmful to reptiles, especially when it is in a mulch form (as opposed to shavings)?

I have searched for a long time, and all I can find are anecdotes, second-hand info, etc. There is no comment about avoiding pine in Mader's "Reptile Medicine and Surgery" and it is not listed as a toxic element there.

It would just be nice to know if there is really a risk here or not.


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## Terry Allan Hall (Oct 17, 2010)

Madkins007 said:


> Can anyone find any clinical evidence that pine is harmful to reptiles, especially when it is in a mulch form (as opposed to shavings)?
> 
> I have searched for a long time, and all I can find are anecdotes, second-hand info, etc. There is no comment about avoiding pine in Mader's "Reptile Medicine and Surgery" and it is not listed as a toxic element there.
> 
> It would just be nice to know if there is really a risk here or not.



Agreed...it would be handy to know, _for certain_, if it's, in any way, dangerous....but, in the mean time, I'll err on the side of caution.


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## Mao Senpai (Oct 20, 2010)

Well after searching long and hard and after 20 phone calls later I found a place that can order me cypress mulch. Some place called Agway and I got myself 4 bags for 6 dollars each. Pretty pleased. Now I didn't realize each bag was 3 cubic feet. So.... now I have a whole lot of it......


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## Terry Allan Hall (Oct 24, 2010)

Mao Senpai said:


> Well after searching long and hard and after 20 phone calls later I found a place that can order me cypress mulch. Some place called Agway and I got myself 4 bags for 6 dollars each. Pretty pleased. Now I didn't realize each bag was 3 cubic feet. So.... now I have a whole lot of it......



Well, having that much mulch'll make cage maintenance a breeze, then! 

Or maybe it's Fate's way of telling you to adopt another tortoise...or seven.


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## Mao Senpai (Oct 24, 2010)

omg! Don't tempt me. I nearly bought another leopard just looking the other day. I had to restrain myself...... such awesome little things


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## Terry Allan Hall (Oct 24, 2010)

Mao Senpai said:


> omg! Don't tempt me. I nearly bought another leopard just looking the other day. I had to restrain myself...... such awesome little things



Pretty sure that tortoises bring good luck and joy in life, and the more tortoises you have, the more luck and joy...


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## Balboa (Oct 26, 2010)

Looks like you've already got it under control, but in case anybody else is wondering, Hemlock is NOT known to be highly toxic to HUMANS from the research I've done. Apparently there is some evidence out there somewhere that indicates in rare cases the dust causes nose cancer. 

From my personal experience with working it, it is quite benign, and causes no reaction in me. YMMV

So I personally would probably be willing to try hemlock mulch for Torts, but watch things closely, and of course who knows how well it actually performs as a substrate.

while working it, it really reminds me of cedar without the odor. Kind of a pita, but very pretty when done right 

this makes me wonder if it might have some of the benefits of cedar (mold,water,bug resistance) , but the trees don't really look anything alike (both are common native species here).

guess I need to stick a scrap outside in the shade for a while and see how it fairs.


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