# Why does my Desert Tortoise bob his head?



## Krisowen

My guy will come up to our feet and just start bobbing his head at our toes. It is like he has a toe fetish. He never bites. It is like he is happy, making a friend. What do you all think?


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## ascott

CDTs are a tenacious bunch...."normally" head bobbing is an assertive behavior...if he were facing a counterpart of his own species it is usually a dominance thing....if your tort is a male and is still young, he may just be trying out his skills incase the elusive 5 toe species attacks....lol

and although he has not tasted toes "YET", he will


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## Krisowen

Actually it is a she. She has a guys name so it feels natural to say he. I will have to watch my toes. She sleeps inside and goes outside for the day. She comes to the backdoor when she wants in. She also just started pushing our feet like she is trying to go through us when she is tired and wants to sleep. Well, I put her to bed when she does it and she instantly pushes up tight against something and goes to sleep. Is that normal?


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## ascott

> She also just started pushing our feet like she is trying _to go through us_



Yes...lol...absolutely normal, left--right--reverse, these are just not necessary in the mind of most torts...although they do them, "through" and "over" are the more popular choices to them...

What do you offer as a place for a bed? Does she sleep directly on a cold floor or do you offer a bed/towel for her to sleep on? 

I have an old man CDT Humphry who lives here...he is a funny old gentleman, he use to live at a park that I use to work at...and my office had a door that led to a patio that I enclosed for him...he would knock on the door to come in as well as out as he desired...it was very fun. 

Then when I stopped working there he came to live here and when he is cruising the yard and front porch with me he will every so stop at the front door and really look at it (that is with his good eye) and give it a tap...(the office door and our front door are both white, don't know if he knows that or if it just looks the same shape and such, suppose I will never know for certain, huh).


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## Krisowen

Oh how funny! OK, I will be honest. She likes to sit with me on the couch. I sit and she sleeps next to me under a blanket that I have draped over the couch's back. It forms a teepee area for her to sleep in. She pushes up against the couch under the blanket. When I go to bed, I kiss her on the nose and carry her to a small dog bed next to where I sleep. It is round with an attached top that acts like a blanket. I pull up the top of it and slide her in. LOL if I have to leave before she gets up I just pick up the bed with her in it and put it outside on the patio. I work from home so I am usually with her. She is so interactive with us. We even walk down the sidewalk to the neighbors house to eat weeds. She follows right behind me.


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## CourtneyG

As far as I know it is a form of communication, both if mine do it.


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## Tom

This is a classic sign of tortoise aggression, dominance and territoriality. I am astounded that anyone would think of this as a "happy" or friendly gesture...


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## Krisowen

That makes sense about it being how they communicate. That was what I was thinking. I also have a green cheek conjure bird that likes to walk the floor. She bobs her head at the bird too. I caught her snuggled up to my bird once sleeping. I think she just likes to snuggle and is looking for a friend. When my bird started to pace back and forth in front of her, my bird was peaking under a door, I could see the bite coming. I think she just wanted her to sit still. LOL
She let go instantly when I yelled no and touched her head.

She bobs all the time, never bites at our feet ever. She like to sit by our feet. She just bobs her head like she is having fun, no other aggression. They all must have different personalities. She slept all winter in my closet. It is pushing 90 here now so she is up. I am glad she made it though the first winter with me. I rescued her from a little old lady last fall who spoiled her. She was going into a assisted care facility and couldn't take her. I have not had her long. But she has a wonderful personality. A real sweetheart.


Just to be clear, she stays outside all day long. We have a large yard that is completely secure for her. She just sleeps inside.


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## tildatron

Tom said:


> This is a classic sign of tortoise aggression, dominance and territoriality. I am astounded that anyone would think of this as a "happy" or friendly gesture...



Regarding tortoise aggression: Tilda engages in this behavior as well, and I have always taken it as a sign of aggression. She (or he) often does it around her food, but will do it at other times as well. Right now its not much of an issue, as she is only 5 inches. I have wondered if it will become a problem as she grows though.

Is there anything that can help curb aggressive behavior in torts?


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## Tom

Nothing will make them stop. Its just their nature and hormones. The best thing is to just understand it and work around it.

CDTs are famous for having these fierce, territorial, fearless personalities. Its one of their most endearing traits in my opinion.


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## GeoTerraTestudo

Krisowen said:


> That makes sense about it being how they communicate. That was what I was thinking. I also have a green cheek conjure bird that likes to walk the floor. She bobs her head at the bird too. I caught her snuggled up to my bird once sleeping. I think she just likes to snuggle and is looking for a friend. When my bird started to pace back and forth in front of her, my bird was peaking under a door, I could see the bite coming. I think she just wanted her to sit still. LOL
> She let go instantly when I yelled no and touched her head.
> 
> She bobs all the time, never bites at our feet ever. She like to sit by our feet. She just bobs her head like she is having fun, no other aggression. They all must have different personalities. She slept all winter in my closet. It is pushing 90 here now so she is up. I am glad she made it though the first winter with me. I rescued her from a little old lady last fall who spoiled her. She was going into a assisted care facility and couldn't take her. I have not had her long. But she has a wonderful personality. A real sweetheart.
> 
> 
> Just to be clear, she stays outside all day long. We have a large yard that is completely secure for her. She just sleeps inside.





Tortoises have true head-bobbing, as well as something else that people call "bobbing," but isn't.

True head-bobbing occurs with the neck held straight out and the head extended. In male tortoises, true head-bobbing is a sign of either courtship or aggression. In females, it can only be aggression, since females do not court males.

However, people often notice a tortoise's or box turtle's head going up and down while it's not fully extended. This is not bobbing, but merely breathing. The throat pouch inflates and deflates to move air in and out, and if the head is touching the plastron (bottom shell), this pumping can cause the head to move up and down. Tortoises and box turtles do this more when they are warm or active, because they are breathing more.

If your female desert tortoise seems "friendly" while approaching you or sitting next to you with its head moving up and down, then it could be one of two things. If the neck is extended, then that is true head-bobbing, which is an aggressive display that you are misinterpreting as friendly. However, if the neck is not extended, then the animal is simply excited (perhaps because it expects food) and its breathing just gives the appearance of head-bobbing. In that case, maybe it really is eager to approach you. The fact that you say she does this while sitting next to you makes me suspect she's just breathing, because with true head-bobbing, the tortoise is usually charging toward another individual, and if that individual doesn't move, they tend to get rammed or bitten. You report no such follow-up behaviors, so I think she might just be excited while waiting to get fed.


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## tortoise_man1

Tortoises have true head-bobbing, as well as something else that people call "bobbing," but isn't.

True head-bobbing occurs with the neck held straight out and the head extended. In male tortoises, true head-bobbing is a sign of either courtship or aggression. In females, it can only be aggression, since females do not court males.

However, people often notice a tortoise's or box turtle's head going up and down while it's not fully extended. This is not bobbing, but merely breathing. The throat pouch inflates and deflates to move air in and out, and if the head is touching the plastron (bottom shell), this pumping can cause the head to move up and down. Tortoises and box turtles do this more when they are warm or active, because they are breathing more.



Yes, well this may be true, my tortoise only does it when I am head level with her and she only bobs her head if I bob my head first


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## GeoTerraTestudo

tortoise_man1 said:


> Yes, well this may be true, my tortoise only does it when I am head level with her and she only bobs her head if I bob my head first



With her head in or out? If it's in, then she's probably just breathing.


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## tildatron

Tom said:


> Nothing will make them stop. Its just their nature and hormones. The best thing is to just understand it and work around it.



That was my impression. Since she is only head bobbing and 'arm flexing' and not displaying any other aggressive signs (no biting or rushing) I figure we'll just work it out.


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## Krisowen

I do think that she is excited. It looks like she is trying to make friends or in love with our feet to be honest. She would have bitten if not and my toes are directly next to her mouth when she is sitting, sometimes touching her face. Her neck is relaxed, it looks like her version of a dance. Her head is about half way out and her neck is not stretched straight, it has a slight bend. Like she is trying to communicate with our toes. It is big up and down movements. She will purposely come up to our feet and then start moving her head up and down then she stops. If we respond by wiggling our toes up and down then she responds with more head movement. It goes back and forth like she is communicating with us. Maybe she is mimicking us.She also has just started pushing into us after she has been out running around a while and wants our attention. I am thinking it is because she is tired and wants us to carry her inside to bed. It is the same behavior she will do as she pushes up against something to sleep. Maybe it is like, be still so I can push against you and sleep. She does like to sleep near my feet on the couch so maybe she does it just to try to go to sleep but we keep moving. I have not come to a formal conclusion on it yet. She just started it, no biting though but I am hoping that is not aggression beginning.


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## Tom

Russians will sometimes bite their rivals. CDTs usually don't. Seldom do tortoises bite to show aggression. They show aggression with posture, position, chasing, ramming, flipping and HEAD BOBBING!

Your warm fuzzy feelings are misguided in this case. Sorry.


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## Krisowen

I will watch her closely more closely and see what conclusion I come to. I sure hope she is not staring to be aggressive. As long as she doesn't bite it is no big deal I guess. I can live with it. I like an animal with an attitude. LOL when she does it, she is not raised up. Her shell is sitting flat against the ground. Maybe I can take a video of it.


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## pugsandkids

Tom said:


> Russians will sometimes bite their rivals. CDTs usually don't. Seldom do tortoises bite to show aggression. They show aggression with posture, position, chasing, ramming, flipping and HEAD BOBBING!
> 
> Your warm fuzzy feelings are misguided in this case. Sorry.



As long as everyone keeps their toes intact I think a few warm and fuzzy feelings are okay  
Learning tortoise body language and posturing is important to being a responsible keeper though.


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## GeoTerraTestudo

Krisowen said:


> I do think that she is excited. It looks like she is trying to make friends or in love with our feet to be honest. She would have bitten if not and my toes are directly next to her mouth when she is sitting, sometimes touching her face. Her neck is relaxed, it looks like her version of a dance. Her head is about half way out and her neck is not stretched straight, it has a slight bend. Like she is trying to communicate with our toes. It is big up and down movements. She will purposely come up to our feet and then start moving her head up and down then she stops. If we respond by wiggling our toes up and down then she responds with more head movement. It goes back and forth like she is communicating with us. Maybe she is mimicking us.She also has just started pushing into us after she has been out running around a while and wants our attention. I am thinking it is because she is tired and wants us to carry her inside to bed. It is the same behavior she will do as she pushes up against something to sleep. Maybe it is like, be still so I can push against you and sleep. She does like to sleep near my feet on the couch so maybe she does it just to try to go to sleep but we keep moving. I have not come to a formal conclusion on it yet. She just started it, no biting though but I am hoping that is not aggression beginning.



It's either aggression or just simple breathing. Tortoises do not engage in mirror behavior (copying) like birds and mammals, and they don't communicate back and forth like lizards doing push-ups.

As Tom said, try not to read too much into behavior (or too little). Tortoises don't play or bond with us like dogs and cats do. They either tolerate us or they don't. If they associate us with food, then they like having us around. But if they're being randy or if they feel crowded, then they can become aggressive. Either way, they're very interesting animals!


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## ascott

> Tortoises do not engage in mirror behavior



Usually  You will encounter a "freak" personality from time to time....



> Tortoises don't play or bond



Call it what we simple humans will, but from time to time we will find a rebel that simply does what feels good and has not read the "wild tortoise rule book"....



> they're very interesting animals!



Absolutely....

We have a couple members on this very Forum that have a couple of these unique souls....so, get to know your tort and figure what works well for your torta as well as you.....if your tort has been spoiled "human" like..then it may certainly have normal tortoise behavior but has learned when to utilize its skills....lol..


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## GeoTerraTestudo

Here's a good clip of a couple male Hermann tortoises fighting. This is past the head-bobbing threat stage; it's full-blown combat. The bigger one appears to be bobbing his head, but actually, his throat pouch just rhythmically lifts the head when it expands to breath:

[video=youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYU-ilEZ7Gs[/video]


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## GeoTerraTestudo

ascott said:


> Tortoises do not engage in mirror behavior
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Usually  You will encounter a "freak" personality from time to time....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tortoises don't play or bond
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Call it what we simple humans will, but from time to time we will find a rebel that simply does what feels good and has not read the "wild tortoise rule book"....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> they're very interesting animals!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Absolutely....
> 
> We have a couple members on this very Forum that have a couple of these unique souls....so, get to know your tort and figure what works well for your torta as well as you.....if your tort has been spoiled "human" like..then it may certainly have normal tortoise behavior but has learned when to utilize its skills....lol..
Click to expand...


Angela, here's an interesting video I found. It's a clip of several children gathered around a CDT at a picnic in the park (probably for educational purposes). One of the little boys shakes his head at the tortoise, and the tortoise bobs his head right back at the boy. They repeat this several times.

Obviously, this is true head-bobbing, as it is more elaborate and less rhythmic than breathing (of course, the pattern varies from one species to another). However, I would not say that this tortoise is playing with or befriending the boy. If anything, he probably perceives the boy as trying to intimidate him, but considers himself strong enough to counter with head-bobbing of his own. He seems to back away at the end, though, perhaps because he does not want to challenge the much bigger "tortoise" confronting him. 

[video=youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4EVdkpLXEw[/video]


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## Raeanncarr1

Mine does the same thing


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## GeoTerraTestudo

Raeanncarr1 said:


> Mine does the same thing



As which? The one in the park with the kids?


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## Krisowen

That was great video of the tortoises fighting! It was not what I am seeing at all. I could recognize that as aggression easily. That is not the behavior I am referring to as head bobbing either, not even close. I will have to record it and figure out how to upload it. I am talking big up and down movements with the head, exaggerated movements even. Like she is keeping beat to music, way up and way down. I would not of recognized the tortoises on the video as even bobbing their head at all. Her head is more out of her shell than that but not straight necked, more relaxed and she is relaxed as she is doing it. Like she is excited to meet our toes and it is her way of communicating and saying hi. Like she thinks our big toe is another tortoise head or something, it is weird. Yes, maybe she has different behaviors growing up spoiled. She does not like to be alone, that is for sure. The ramming is not what I am seeing either. It is like she is just trying to push out feet to move us. It is one constant effort, not back and forth rams. She just keeps pushing with her back legs. Sometimes her feet slide on our tile as she is doing it. No you really have me wondering what this is.

P.s. I just saw the second video! That is exactly what she is doing! Just sitting there next to our feet bobbing her head when we move our toes up and down. Never any aggression. She just stays there bobbing her head.


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## GeoTerraTestudo

Krisowen said:


> That was great video of the tortoises fighting! It was not what I am seeing at all. I could recognize that as aggression easily. That is not the behavior I am referring to as head bobbing either, not even close. I will have to record it and figure out how to upload it. I am talking big up and down movements with the head, exaggerated movements even. Like she is keeping beat to music, way up and way down. I would not of recognized the tortoises on the video as even bobbing their head at all. Her head is more out of her shell than that but not straight necked, more relaxed and she is relaxed as she is doing it. Like she is excited to meet our toes and it is her way of communicating and saying hi. Like she thinks our big toe is another tortoise head or something, it is weird. Yes, maybe she has different behaviors growing up spoiled. She does not like to be alone, that is for sure. The ramming is not what I am seeing either. It is like she is just trying to push out feet to move us. It is one constant effort, not back and forth rams. She just keeps pushing with her back legs. Sometimes her feet slide on our tile as she is doing it. No you really have me wondering what this is.
> 
> P.s. I just saw the second video! That is exactly what she is doing! Just sitting there next to our feet bobbing her head when we move our toes up and down. Never any aggression. She just stays there bobbing her head.



Okay, glad I posted the videos then. Well, if she is doing true head-bobbing, like the tortoise in the second video, then that is an aggressive display. It's not a greeting. It's her way of saying, "Go away." If she's pushing you, even slightly, then that is an even higher level of aggression. Not as high as biting or ramming, but threat behavior nonetheless. Sorry.


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## Team Gomberg

WONDERFUL EXAMPLES GeoTT!

Thank you for sharing.

These visual comparisons really help for those of us following along trying to grasp some of these described behaviors.

Thanks again  If no one else, I have benefited from these clips.


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## Krisowen

OK, well now I know. I will have to watch her. I expected aggression to look like the first video and I knew I wasn't seeing that display. The head bobbing alone confused me. It seemed out of context to be aggression. I will watch her.


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## GeoTerraTestudo

Team Gomberg said:


> WONDERFUL EXAMPLES GeoTT!
> 
> Thank you for sharing.
> 
> These visual comparisons really help for those of us following along trying to grasp some of these described behaviors.
> 
> Thanks again  If no one else, I have benefited from these clips.



Yea! 




Krisowen said:


> OK, well now I know. I will have to watch her. I expected aggression to look like the first video and I knew I wasn't seeing that display. The head bobbing alone confused me. It seemed out of context to be aggression. I will watch her.



Head-bobbing alone is like a dog just baring his teeth or growling without actually attacking, or a human just glaring at you without throwing a punch. It's a warning. One tortoise can intimidate another with this simple threat (this is how tortoises can bully and stress other tortoises when housed improperly). The other tortoise seeing that signal would know that it is not welcome, and would either try to flee or challenge. If the warning is not heeded, then escalating aggression could follow. I'm glad you're not seeing that.

I wonder if you might be doing something to make her feel like she has to threaten you. Does she feel cornered? Is she handled roughly or too frequently? Maybe she gets too many baths, or maybe you present her with food too quickly. Maybe she would calm down if she mated, or maybe it's just her personality. Why do you think she's trying to make you leave her alone?


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## Krisowen

No, I don't think it is anything I am doing. I don't feed her by hand. She eats outside, it is around 90 degrees here during the day. I live in sunny Arizona. If I feed her extra other than the outside grass then I just put edible flowers in front of her while she is munching on grass, maybe a piece of fruit on rare occasion. If she sees me put flowers on the ground she comes running as fast as her little legs can carry her. She is used to living on grass and flowers outside with the occasional fruit. That is what the lady before me did. I have planted lots of flowers for her to eat but roses and hibiscus flowers are her favorite. I do not bath her but I have a shallow pan of water she goes in outside to drink from. Our relationship is not based on me touching her. She just is in my presence as company. I do lift her up so she can sit on the couch and sleep next to me and I do pull the extra grass out of her teeth but she let's me. I lay on the grass with her sometimes, that's about it. I do kiss her on the nose and talk with her when I pick her up to put her on the couch. It honestly seems like courting behavior because we are sitting outside, not interacting with her at all when she comes up and does it. We are not touching her at all. She is just walking around playing and investigating when she strolls up and it happens. She just notices our toes. Bobs her head a few times and goes on to investigate around more. Sometimes she will sit with us and do it if she is all tired out from investigating around beforehand. She just really likes our big toes. I think she has a toe fetish. I will watch for aggression though to be safe.


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## GeoTerraTestudo

Krisowen said:


> No, I don't think it is anything I am doing. I don't feed her by hand. She eats outside. If I feed her extra other than the outside grass then I just put edible flowers in front of her while she is munching on grass, maybe a piece of fruit on rare occasion. She is used to living on grass and flowers outside with the occasional fruit. That is what the lady before me did. I do not bath her but I have a shallow pan of water she goes in outside. Our relationship is not based on me touching her. She just is in my presence as company. It honestly seems like courting behavior because we are sitting outside, not interacting with her at all when she comes up and does it. We are not touching her at all. She is just walking around playing and investigating when she strolls up and it happens. She just notices our toes. Bobs her head a few times and goes on to investigate around more. Sometimes she will sit with us and do it if she is all tired out from investigating around beforehand. She just really likes our big toes. I think she has a toe fetish. LOL I will watch for aggression though to be safe.



LOL ... You sure it's a female? Males are the ones that use head-bobbing for courtship, and mature male tortoises that do not have mates have been known to court shoes, feet, etc. Almost sounds like it's a male trying to find a sexual outlet, rather than a female. Got any photos, particularly of the vent so we can sex it?


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## Krisowen

Also, she does follow me everywhere. I even take her out the garage door to sit out front. She plays and investigates while we sit. I watch her closely. She will listen to 'no, turn around' about half the time. The other half I have to start to get up and then she turns around like 'I was just going to do that.' LOL she is not allowed under our cars. That is a boundary, she is learning. We take walks down the sidewalk to the neighbors to eat their flowers and weeds. She follows right behind me there and back and will greet each person with a head bob at their feet before moving on to investigate. I may be wrong but I think I have an unusual relationship with her from what it sounds like. I consider myself blessed. She is great company.


I will take some pictures tomorrow. She has put herself to bed in my closet under my hanging clothes for the night. That is what the little old lady told me who I rescued her from. She was going into assisted living and could not take her. I never thought twice about it. Maybe it is a male. That would fit better. She had the tortoise since it was a little, for about 13 years. Her son found it in the desert outside of Tucson. Maybe she was wrong.


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## Krisowen

I found this picture of the protrusion under her head. A picture of her eating. I will post more tomorrow.


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## GeoTerraTestudo

Krisowen said:


> I found this picture of the protrusion under her head. A picture of her eating. I will post more tomorrow. Is she fat? She sure seems to be busting out of her shell all poofy.



Wow, what a handsome creature. No, looks good. A little bit of chub is good.

Male CDTs have that gular spur, as well as mental (lower jaw) glands, a concave plastron, and a bigger tail. Sometimes people think young males are females because it takes 15-20 years until they reach 8 inches in length, go through puberty, and develop male characteristics.

I'm looking forward to seeing more pix, but based on that relatively large (and probably growing) gular spur, I think you might have a horny adolescent male on your hands. That would explain why he's trying to court and hump everything in sight, including your feet and the neighbors'! 

Here's a good website on telling the sexes apart in CDTs:
http://blogs.sandiegozoo.org/2009/07/29/desert-tortoises-male-or-female/


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## Krisowen

Oh how funny! I estimate he/she is 15 to 20 years old from what she told me. It was small enough to fit through a small cat door when she found it. I keep thinking and referring to it as a male. I have all along. I bet she was wrong. He is a chub! He is busting out of his shell. How fast does his shell grow? He eats a lot. It is not uncommon for him to be a hour in the afternoons munching on grass.


Here are 2 more pictures from last fall after I first got her/him..


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## GeoTerraTestudo

All that sounds normal. He's looking good. A tortoise isn't really fat unless he has trouble withdrawing into his shell. A little bit of fat is good, particularly in temperate (non-tropical) tortoises, because it helps them get through the winter. Tortoises are herbivores like cattle and rabbits, so they are adapted to eating a lot of low-nutrient food, as opposed to carnivores and omnivores (like us), which eat relatively smaller amounts of high-nutrient food. For a reptile, tortoises eat a lot.

Looks like your guy is doing well. When you get a chance, if you can post a picture of his/her tail, underside, and chin, that will provide us with more information as to sex.


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## Krisowen

Will any of these work? I have seen a little tail but it is tucked in right now. I can feel a very slight indentation on the bottom shell but it is hard to see in the pictures. Maybe he is younger than I thought, 12 to 15 years and still developing


Here are some more pic's and yes, I have dogs but they are very used to small animals around and well trained. I have a bird that walks on my floor and ferrets running around them. I am always rescuing something so they are used to it and ignore them. In fact I have them trained to find him in the yard for me when we all go outside to look for him, it is cute.


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## GeoTerraTestudo

Sweet pix, and like I said, beautiful tort. 

I'm glad your dogs are well-behaved and can help you find your tortoise. That is excellent, but as we've said here on TFO, even the most trustworthy dog should still be supervised when around a tortoise or other small pets, just to be sure.

Well, that vent does look like a female's vent: short, stubby tail with a star-shaped opening closer to the base. Plastron does not appear to be particularly concave, and I don't see any prominent mental glands, either. It could be a young male who's still developing, but I think it's just a female with a relatively long gular spur.

Like I said, head-bobbing can mean courtship in males, or just plain old aggression in either sex. CDTs have been known to display to humans in their territories in the wild. It's usually males, although females have been known to defend nests to some degree. If this one is neither male nor a nesting female, then maybe she is just getting old enough to try and establish a territory of her own more vigorously.


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## Krisowen

Interesting, I guess I will just have to give things more time and watch what develops. I will watch for the aggression. Thanks for letting me know she is OK. I often wondered if she was eating enough etc.


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