# My enclosure are already growing mold!! HELP



## BrinnANDTorts (Jan 17, 2012)

I looked in my sullies enclosure this morning when I got up to check on them and its ALREADY growing MOLD! White fuzzy stuff in certain areas , I cleaned it the best I could. I'll do a full change out later of the substrate
What I don't understand is WHY
I keep it clean..there is some grass seed mix growing in the substrate.. I thought that was suppose to help keep the substrate from molding..
I need help stopping it from molding and turning sour, I have no idea how. 
The Greeks enclosure below the sullies is not molding yet and doesn't smell sour and its got grass growing in it too. 
Is it the substrate I am using ? 
Peat moss and cypress mulch is what I am using
What if I switched to coco coir , some Repti bark, and a little bit of organic compost 
Should I add in some dirt that I just dig up from outside ? Is that safe? 
I will do anything to keep the substrate from molding , I would like to be able to plants lots of plants in the substrate like these photos 





I don't understand why their substrate doesn't mold


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## steven (Jan 17, 2012)

I haven't had problems with molding of coir. But I do know that if it is white and super fuzzy, it could be cobweb mold. Dilute (1/10) solution should do the trick, I just don't know if its safe for the torts.


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## GBtortoises (Jan 17, 2012)

Mold spores are actually always present but what causes them to grow and spread is optimum temperatures (mid 70's-high 80's), humidity levels in excess of 55% and lack of good air circulation. It usually grows very quickly on food in those conditions but can take hold about anywhere that is extremely humid. 

Based on the photo you posted, it looks like the substrate is extremely saturated and there is condensation running down the inside of the tank. That would indicate that it is _extremely_ humid within the enclosure and getting little to no air flow. The excessive amount of plants for an area that size add to holding in the humidity. Essentially what you doing is creating a hothouse-good for plants and tropical frogs, not so good for most species of tortoises. What temperature and humidity level is it within the enclosure?

The problem isn't the substrate but more likely the excessive moisture and lack of air flow.


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## Guggie (Jan 17, 2012)

Coco grew mold for me under my water dish - one of the reasons I got rid of it. Haven't had the problem with Jungle Mix. (which is fir and sphagnum.)


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## SulcataSquirt (Jan 17, 2012)

Yes i think you are going a little bit extreme. iv growing a very smooth tort with 50-60 percent humidity and an open top for circulation. with the open top and crane humidifier running in my 4x8 my humidity is usually between 55-70% the first year of my torts life was spent in a 40 gallon breeder tank with an open top, keeping just the substrate damp(spraying daily) and also giving the tort a mist once a day and soaking for 30 mins. he rarley used his humid hid until he hit one year now hes in it all times through out the day. You need to give your tort the option to get out of the muggy hot humidity. you could keep your set up and maybe install a few computer fans at each end one blowing in, one sucking air out. humidity sound still be good, but having air flow to prevent mold. Also stir your dirt one a week (pain but it works.)

.....I have noticed when growing carolina seed mix and clover in my enclosure if left in their long enough it will get white and fuzzy down where the seed shell is, but i usually replant before that happends.


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## lynnedit (Jan 17, 2012)

GBtortoises said:


> Mold spores are actually always present but what causes them to grow and spread is optimum temperatures (mid 70's-high 80's), humidity levels in excess of 55% and lack of good air circulation. It usually grows very quickly on food in those conditions but can take hold about anywhere that is extremely humid.
> 
> Based on the photo you posted, it looks like the substrate is extremely saturated and there is condensation running down the inside of the tank. That would indicate that it is _extremely_ humid within the enclosure and getting little to no air flow. The excessive amount of plants for an area that size add to holding in the humidity. Essentially what you doing is creating a hothouse-good for plants and tropical frogs, not so good for most species of tortoises. What temperature and humidity level is it within the enclosure?
> 
> The problem isn't the substrate but more likely the excessive moisture and lack of air flow.



Good points. Maybe the Greek enclosure isn't as humid, even with the plants? (no humidifier, etc.)
While I really liked the sprouting seeds, I wonder if those, combined with the higher humidity, caused the problem?
With the seeds growing, you can't mix up the substrate every 2-3 days to keep it fluffier and thus get air to it. I wonder if it would be better to grow seeds in small trays and swap them out with a new one when gone. Then you could keep the substrate from packing down too much.
Just a thought...


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## Kristina (Jan 17, 2012)

GBtortoises said:


> Mold spores are actually always present but what causes them to grow and spread is optimum temperatures (mid 70's-high 80's), humidity levels in excess of 55% and lack of good air circulation. It usually grows very quickly on food in those conditions but can take hold about anywhere that is extremely humid.
> 
> Based on the photo you posted, it looks like the substrate is extremely saturated and there is condensation running down the inside of the tank. That would indicate that it is _extremely_ humid within the enclosure and getting little to no air flow. The excessive amount of plants for an area that size add to holding in the humidity. Essentially what you doing is creating a hothouse-good for plants and tropical frogs, not so good for most species of tortoises. What temperature and humidity level is it within the enclosure?
> 
> The problem isn't the substrate but more likely the excessive moisture and lack of air flow.



The photo posted is one of my enclosures, particularly for my baby Cherryhead. Temperature is 82*, humidity 80-90%. The substrate is wet, but not sopping, and is organic humus covered in a layer of saturated sphagnum moss. There are isopods, slugs, snails and redworms living in the soil. There are two vents in the tank lid that allow for airflow.

I have no issues with mold whatsoever. 

To answer your question Brinn, is it possible that a bit of pellet food (like Mazuri or Grassland) was tracked into those areas that molded? In the higher humidity enclosures, that is something that you have to look for and clean up.


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## Tom (Jan 17, 2012)

I share Kristina's experience. The only time I see mold in an enclosure like that is when there is something organic for it to attach to and use as a food source. I saw this once with one batch of coco coir. The person had coir before, but changed it when he cleaned his enclosure. The new stuff started growing the white fuzzies you describe. (I think that's a fungus) he chucked thaat coir, bought a different brand, and the problem disappeared. You might have a batch of coir with a little something organic mixed in.

A little ventilation would solve the problem if its not something organic. If there is some sort of food source for the fungus, it will have to get pretty dry in there to stop it.


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## BrinnANDTorts (Jan 17, 2012)

GBtortoises said:


> Mold spores are actually always present but what causes them to grow and spread is optimum temperatures (mid 70's-high 80's), humidity levels in excess of 55% and lack of good air circulation. It usually grows very quickly on food in those conditions but can take hold about anywhere that is extremely humid.
> 
> Based on the photo you posted, it looks like the substrate is extremely saturated and there is condensation running down the inside of the tank. That would indicate that it is _extremely_ humid within the enclosure and getting little to no air flow. The excessive amount of plants for an area that size add to holding in the humidity. Essentially what you doing is creating a hothouse-good for plants and tropical frogs, not so good for most species of tortoises. What temperature and humidity level is it within the enclosure?
> 
> The problem isn't the substrate but more likely the excessive moisture and lack of air flow.



That is not my enclosure, that is an example of an enclosure that has lots of plants and moisture but doesn't grow mold. That is what I WANT my enclosure to be like. 
My sullies thrive in high humidity. 
I don't keep my greeks in that high of humidity..They stay in the 60% to low 70%
I always keep my sullies in the high 80% to low 90% 
The temp stays above 80 degrees with a basking spot of 100-105 
The humidity is high, around 80-90%




Guggie said:


> Coco grew mold for me under my water dish - one of the reasons I got rid of it. Haven't had the problem with Jungle Mix. (which is fir and sphagnum.)



I am very strongly considering to completely changing my substrate to what Kristina uses...I think she said it was organic humus and sphagnum moss. The problem is where to find these things..I will have to order them off the internet ..maybe Amazon has them. 



SulcataSquirt said:


> Yes i think you are going a little bit extreme. iv growing a very smooth tort with 50-60 percent humidity and an open top for circulation. with the open top and crane humidifier running in my 4x8 my humidity is usually between 55-70% the first year of my torts life was spent in a 40 gallon breeder tank with an open top, keeping just the substrate damp(spraying daily) and also giving the tort a mist once a day and soaking for 30 mins. he rarley used his humid hid until he hit one year now hes in it all times through out the day. You need to give your tort the option to get out of the muggy hot humidity. you could keep your set up and maybe install a few computer fans at each end one blowing in, one sucking air out. humidity sound still be good, but having air flow to prevent mold. Also stir your dirt one a week (pain but it works.)
> 
> .....I have noticed when growing carolina seed mix and clover in my enclosure if left in their long enough it will get white and fuzzy down where the seed shell is, but i usually replant before that happends.



How do you stir the dirt if their is grass growing all of it? Won't you just destroy the grass? I can stir around the grass and I usually do but its on the grass that it always molds. 
I have some of those fan computer things that you are talking about, I might just start leaving the doors off. They aren't on the top though.They are on the sides. 




lynnedit said:


> GBtortoises said:
> 
> 
> > Mold spores are actually always present but what causes them to grow and spread is optimum temperatures (mid 70's-high 80's), humidity levels in excess of 55% and lack of good air circulation. It usually grows very quickly on food in those conditions but can take hold about anywhere that is extremely humid.
> ...



Thats a good idea,  I will probably have to because I can't manage to grow plants in the enclosure like Kristina does without it molding



Tom said:


> I share Kristina's experience. The only time I see mold in an enclosure like that is when there is something organic for it to attach to and use as a food source. I saw this once with one batch of coco coir. The person had coir before, but changed it when he cleaned his enclosure. The new stuff started growing the white fuzzies you describe. (I think that's a fungus) he chucked thaat coir, bought a different brand, and the problem disappeared. You might have a batch of coir with a little something organic mixed in.
> 
> A little ventilation would solve the problem if its not something organic. If there is some sort of food source for the fungus, it will have to get pretty dry in there to stop it.



This may be a very dumb questions but when I substrate package has the word organic in it like "Organic Peat Moss" or Organic Humus 
that doesn't mean that is has what you are describing about having something organic in the substrate for it to grow on from a bad batch? Cause that possible because I bought organic peat moss. I am starting to really not like peat moss or mulch. Drainage for peat moss is like zero. The water just sits on top and I have to mix and mush and pact it all down and I don't like having the substrate packed down.



Kristina said:


> The photo posted is one of my enclosures, particularly for my baby Cherryhead. Temperature is 82*, humidity 80-90%. The substrate is wet, but not sopping, and is organic humus covered in a layer of saturated sphagnum moss. There are isopods, slugs, snails and redworms living in the soil. There are two vents in the tank lid that allow for airflow.
> 
> I have no issues with mold whatsoever.
> 
> To answer your question Brinn, is it possible that a bit of pellet food (like Mazuri or Grassland) was tracked into those areas that molded? In the higher humidity enclosures, that is something that you have to look for and clean up.



It is possible that they tracked the grassland food over the substrate because they like to step all over it more than eat it. 
Where do you get your substrate ? I can't find organic humus at the local lowes and places like that..maybe off the internet? Does that make the substrate bioactive ?
Where can I get slugs, isopods, and snails? I know I can get worms at a bait store near my house. I think thats what I really need is to make my substrate bioactive and use better substrate. 
I have a big bag of organic compost..is that okay to use ?


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## EKLC (Jan 17, 2012)

coir is the most mold resistant substrate I've used. Mold doesn't like dry, light,and windy. Perhaps you could add a little light in there, of the non-heating variety?


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## BrinnANDTorts (Jan 17, 2012)

EKLC said:


> coir is the most mold resistant substrate I've used. Mold doesn't like dry, light,and windy. Perhaps you could add a little light in there, of the non-heating variety?



I think I will have 50 % coir and then 50 % organic humus like Kristina uses and leave the doors off to let more air in. 
Does that sound like it would work? 

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001B1LUTW/?tag=exoticpetnetw-20

This is what I found and a am more than a little skeptical about using it because it has the word manure in it... 

Also bricks of eco earth okay ? 
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0010OSIHW/?tag=exoticpetnetw-20


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## SulcataSquirt (Jan 17, 2012)

do you not have a homedepot or lowes around you? those places both carry hummus.


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## BrinnANDTorts (Jan 17, 2012)

SulcataSquirt said:


> do you not have a homedepot or lowes around you? those places both carry hummus.


I have a lowes about 30 minutes away , they carry hummus this time of year ?


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## lynnedit (Jan 18, 2012)

Usually I think they carry organic topsoil year round. Is that what you mean by organic humus? (I think humus is just soil made from organic materials, composted/broken down).
Their organic topsoil is nice stuff, at least in our area.
You could call them first.


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## BrinnANDTorts (Jan 18, 2012)

lynnedit said:


> Usually I think they carry organic topsoil year round. Is that what you mean by organic humus? (I think humus is just soil made from organic materials, composted/broken down).
> Their organic topsoil is nice stuff, at least in our area.
> You could call them first.



I bought some top soil from lowes and it was weird stuff... Like Orange mud 
I haven't found much use for it , humus is different. I am gonna read about it before I buy it 
Is it safe to go just dig up dirt from back yard and put some in there ?


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## wellington (Jan 18, 2012)

I had the same problem in the beginning of owning my leopard back in May, mold and bugs. I was going through substrate like crazy and this was before I had known that much about high humidity. Poor info in the beginning. Anyway, I switched to only coconut coir and have not had any mold since. I also grow weeds and grasses in it, no problem. I do use some spaghnum moss just for two bedding areas, he likes to hide under it.


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## Redfoot NERD (Jan 18, 2012)

Kristina said:


> GBtortoises said:
> 
> 
> > Mold spores are actually always present but what causes them to grow and spread is optimum temperatures (mid 70's-high 80's), humidity levels in excess of 55% and lack of good air circulation. It usually grows very quickly on food in those conditions but can take hold about anywhere that is extremely humid.
> ...



*
* off topic ** Kristina how do you keep plastron 'fungus' in check? Also ( even tho' there is ground cover ) that seems like a lot of light even for the "Brazilian" .carbonaria -- what size is that aquarium? Would you start a "BlackCherry" UPDATE [ w/pics ] thread please? ** off topic **


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## Kristina (Jan 18, 2012)

Actually Terry, I will... I just took pics today, we have some marbling going on...

Brinn, I buy the humus at Home Depot. It is less than $2 a bag. It is a compost of organic materials and manure, and it very rich and black. It is finer and "fluffier" than regular topsoil, and has less "inclusions" (sticks, clay, rocks, etc.) I'm not sure off the top of my head where you live, but I know where I am this time of year it is buried in snow out in the garden center. I bought 10 bags before winter hit. 

The sphagnum moss also comes from Home Depot. It is in a small bale, and costs I think $3.50. The brand is Mosser Lee. Just to be clear, sphagnum peat moss is NOT the same thing. I agree on the peat... I used it briefly and HATED IT. 

The isopods and slugs and critters came from my yard. I collect them from under rocks and logs and use them to "innoculate" my enclosures when I set a new one up. The worms originally came from here - http://www.redworms.com/?gclid=CJ2VvYev2q0CFY0BQAodEifZmg I set up a worm bin and feed them kitchen scraps (no meat.) I have a sustainable colony now.


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## BrinnANDTorts (Jan 18, 2012)

Kristina said:


> Actually Terry, I will... I just took pics today, we have some marbling going on...
> 
> Brinn, I buy the humus at Home Depot. It is less than $2 a bag. It is a compost of organic materials and manure, and it very rich and black. It is finer and "fluffier" than regular topsoil, and has less "inclusions" (sticks, clay, rocks, etc.) I'm not sure off the top of my head where you live, but I know where I am this time of year it is buried in snow out in the garden center. I bought 10 bags before winter hit.
> 
> ...



Alright thank you so much I am going to call some stores and see if they have it or can get it  
I am going to use coir and humus and sphagnum moss not the peat kind and have little vents and see if that helps.


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## ripper7777777 (Jan 20, 2012)

I don't think you are facing a substrate problem, to check take some clean substrate put it in the same conditions and see if it grows mold on it's own. With every substrate I have used mold has only been a problem when mazuri is tracked from the dishes. My redfoots are very clean and never seem to track it, but all the other guys bath in it and track it every where.

I use a top dressing of cypress mulch, this makes it very easy to clean, just scrape out any moldy or dirty mulch and toss it in the garden. Tons of people grow vivariums without mold, I think it's the torts making a mess.



As far as substrates go, I like Scott's Organic top soil, very clean and very nice. Mosser Lee Moss can't be beat. I get both at Home Depot. Currently I use Coir/Top Soil/Yard Dirt. I have worms and pill bugs, along with crabs in with peanut. Also all of it gets top dressed with Cypress mulch.


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