# I need so much help (sick tortoise)



## KristaAZ (Jun 3, 2018)

Hi everyone! 

My sweet tort Morticia and I need help from the tortoise experts. You guys are so smart, sweet, and know everything lol. Morticia has a recurrent respiratory infection. In the past the shots I gave her worked. Now we are on a second antibiotic (every other day) and she is still so congested. You can hear her breathing. Her nose sounds plugged. I am switching Vets, but more on that later. I am so discouraged. 

I have spent about $1000 in the past month on her at the vet. She had an exray looking to see if she has pneumonia and we found out she has a metal washer in her. She doesn't poop every time she eats like she used to. The vet gave me lactulose to give her daily to help it pass. It has been about a week and a half and no luck yet. She told me to give her until the end of the summer and if she has stopped eating/declined before then, then we need to talk about surgery. There is NO WAY we could ever afford surgery so I am very stressed. 

Lastly...the other day I gave her the injection and I accidentally stuck my finger with the needle after I had injected her! I called the vet and 6 hours later the girl that answered the phone told me the vet said she has no advice to give me and to contact my doctor. I was LIVID as you can imagine. I have googled and I am just concerned if tortoises can give humans diseases. She would tell me NOTHING! So that is why I need to find a new vet. It's just very unfortunate timing seeing as how there is so much going on with her. 

If you made it this far thank you. I love her so much and am so upset and scared for her future. If you have any feedback on anything I would love to hear it.

Thank you! <3


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## TriciaStringer (Jun 3, 2018)

Hi. Poor thing. I recommend feeding her cactuses, opuntia and aloe vera are great to help slime up the intestinal tract and get things moving. What kind of tortoise, I may have missed that? Are you soaking? I would soak daily for 30 minutes in warm water to be sure she is very hydrated to help her digestive tract and her infection. We also need to know her enclosure temps and set up. I’m not one of the experts. They will chime in soon.


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## wellington (Jun 3, 2018)

What kind of tortoise is she?
What I have for you to do is too keep her temps day and night at 85 never lower and still a basking spot of 95-100. Soak her daily in warm water and keep it warm the whole time and add piedialyte to the soaking water. You can add baby food carrots too, it won't hurt. 
I don't think you need to worry about being stuck with the needle. Maybe a tetanus but ask you doc about that. 
Keep up the meds and if you can find a reputable vet that has experience with tortoises see that one. Good luck and don't forget. Tortoises do everything slow, which includes getting better.


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## ascott (Jun 3, 2018)

KristaAZ said:


> Hi everyone!
> 
> My sweet tort Morticia and I need help from the tortoise experts. You guys are so smart, sweet, and know everything lol. Morticia has a recurrent respiratory infection. In the past the shots I gave her worked. Now we are on a second antibiotic (every other day) and she is still so congested. You can hear her breathing. Her nose sounds plugged. I am switching Vets, but more on that later. I am so discouraged.
> 
> ...



Hi....is the metal washer smaller than the exit spot? If yes, then perhaps you can aid in getting it out...


KristaAZ said:


> Hi everyone!
> 
> My sweet tort Morticia and I need help from the tortoise experts. You guys are so smart, sweet, and know everything lol. Morticia has a recurrent respiratory infection. In the past the shots I gave her worked. Now we are on a second antibiotic (every other day) and she is still so congested. You can hear her breathing. Her nose sounds plugged. I am switching Vets, but more on that later. I am so discouraged.
> 
> ...




So in the xray is it clear that the metal washer is physically able to move through the tort to the exit...and get out without a problem? If yes, I would offer that tort romaine, red leaf and green leaf lettuce to get lots of hydration in as well as some bulk to get moving behind and around that metal wash.....what makes you think it is metal and not some other material...like the rubber or plastic? 

You have a species that is native to your state....have you ever posted a pic on this forum for us to help you confirm that the tort is indeed a SonoranDT? 

I would stop spending money at the vet for recurring treatments that are not working....I believe there may be other things you can do to help aid in clearing the tort of the active RI...I mean, once these guys get a RI...it is with the tortoise for its entire life, you can only squash the active RI and help aid the tort so the RI goes dormant again.....


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## KristaAZ (Jun 4, 2018)

TriciaStringer said:


> Hi. Poor thing. I recommend feeding her cactuses, opuntia and aloe vera are great to help slime up the intestinal tract and get things moving. What kind of tortoise, I may have missed that? Are you soaking? I would soak daily for 30 minutes in warm water to be sure she is very hydrated to help her digestive tract and her infection. We also need to know her enclosure temps and set up. I’m not one of the experts. They will chime in soon.



Hi! Thank you so much! I have been soaking her about 10 minutes almost every day. I put her in my sink and when she starts trying to climb out I take her out lol. She lives outside.


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## KristaAZ (Jun 4, 2018)

wellington said:


> What kind of tortoise is she?
> What I have for you to do is too keep her temps day and night at 85 never lower and still a basking spot of 95-100. Soak her daily in warm water and keep it warm the whole time and add piedialyte to the soaking water. You can add baby food carrots too, it won't hurt.
> I don't think you need to worry about being stuck with the needle. Maybe a tetanus but ask you doc about that.
> Keep up the meds and if you can find a reputable vet that has experience with tortoises see that one. Good luck and don't forget. Tortoises do everything slow, which includes getting better.




Hi! Thank you so much for the response. She is a Sonoran Desert Tortoise. She is outside in the backyard. She is outside and it’s so hot here already. The vet told me to leave her outside and not to bring her in. I am going to call my doctor this morning. I hope the needle stick is no big deal.


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## KristaAZ (Jun 4, 2018)

ascott said:


> Hi....is the metal washer smaller than the exit spot? If yes, then perhaps you can aid in getting it out...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Hi! Thank you so much for your post! I am not sure what the washer is. She is still pooping so food is able to get around/through it to some extent. She just isn’t eating as much at a time, or pooping as much as usual. My biggest issue with her is she is a ridiculously picky eater!! The person I got her from only gave her romaine so that is all she will eat!!! She will also only eat RED hibiscus! I have offered her tons of things and even try to trick her by putting them in her open mouth mid lettuce bite and she turns and walks away ‍ She won’t even eat fruit!

The RI is so sad. It breaks my heart hearing her breath so loudly. Her nose started running again yesterday and she has been on this new antibiotic for a few weeks now . Thank you for your feedback.


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## Sterant (Jun 4, 2018)

You might want to try soaking for much longer than 10 minutes. They will eventually evacuate a lot if left in the water. Try an hour or two, just do it in a way that keeps the water warm.


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## KristaAZ (Jun 4, 2018)

Sterant said:


> You might want to try soaking for much longer than 10 minutes. They will eventually evacuate a lot if left in the water. Try an hour or two, just do it in a way that keeps the water warm.



Ohhhh I didn’t know that!!!! Thank you so much!!!


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## mark1 (Jun 4, 2018)

what antibiotic is she on ? if it were a mycoplasmal infection , there are a whole lot of antibiotics that will not work ......... something like fortaz will not work , i don't believe amikacin will work either , i know baytril and related fluoroquinolones will work ......... the do do nasal washes with it to get at the bacteria in the sinuses .........


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## Redfool (Jun 4, 2018)

If she’s will only eat red hibiscus flowers,try a little watermelon. I know desert torts are mainly grass eaters but a little fruit might get that washer and her bowels moving. Is another x-ray planned to see if it has moved?


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## Yvonne G (Jun 4, 2018)

Don't worry about the needle prick. you won't catch anything from the tortoise.

Bring it indoors and set it up in a small hospital tank. Keep the temperature 80-85F degrees. Soak daily in a LARGE tub for an hour or more. Scrambling to get out of the tub causes them to poop - a lot!!

I have found that mixing one part Baytril with nine parts sterile saline and flushing both nostrils works better than injecting it. Squirt it like you're trying to clean it out, not like you're just inserting it into the nostril. The other end of the nostril is in the roof of the mouth, so no danger of getting it in the lungs.


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## Yvonne G (Jun 4, 2018)

That looks like a rubber 'O' ring. It should pass easily.


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## TriciaStringer (Jun 4, 2018)

KristaAZ said:


> Hi! Thank you so much! I have been soaking her about 10 minutes almost every day. I put her in my sink and when she starts trying to climb out I take her out lol. She lives outside.


I know she acts like she wants out, but keep her in the water. It is what is best for her. I set my timer in 15 minute increments and scoop out the water to replace it with warmer water. Pooping in the water is one of the things they do best.


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## Yvonne G (Jun 4, 2018)

I don't worry too much about the water temperature when soaking. I make it very warm, and if it cools, it can only get as cool as the temperature of the room it's in. I place a light over one end of the soaking tub to help it stay a little warmer.


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## KristaAZ (Jun 4, 2018)

mark1 said:


> what antibiotic is she on ? if it were a mycoplasmal infection , there are a whole lot of antibiotics that will not work ......... something like fortaz will not work , i don't believe amikacin will work either , i know baytril and related fluoroquinolones will work ......... the do do nasal washes with it to get at the bacteria in the sinuses .........



First she was on Batryel. It worked, but didn't fully get rid of it. Then the vet switched her to oxytetracycline. She actually had to get the injections from another vet out of state because apparently it only comes in oral form in the US, but you can get the injections from Europe??


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## KristaAZ (Jun 4, 2018)

Redfool said:


> If she’s will only eat red hibiscus flowers,try a little watermelon. I know desert torts are mainly grass eaters but a little fruit might get that washer and her bowels moving. Is another x-ray planned to see if it has moved?



oh ya no, I have tried that =( She wont eat it!! It's so crazy because it's sweet so you would think she would! I will keep trying to offer it to her thank you! No xray planned yet. I kind of feel like I will know if it passes. 1. I check her poop, but also I can tell she isn't eating or pooping as much.


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## KristaAZ (Jun 4, 2018)

Yvonne G said:


> Don't worry about the needle prick. you won't catch anything from the tortoise.
> 
> Bring it indoors and set it up in a small hospital tank. Keep the temperature 80-85F degrees. Soak daily in a LARGE tub for an hour or more. Scrambling to get out of the tub causes them to poop - a lot!!
> 
> I have found that mixing one part Baytril with nine parts sterile saline and flushing both nostrils works better than injecting it. Squirt it like you're trying to clean it out, not like you're just inserting it into the nostril. The other end of the nostril is in the roof of the mouth, so no danger of getting it in the lungs.



Ok I will do that. Should I just put her in my bathtub? That may be easier lol. I have been feeling like her nostrils need to be flushed!! I need to find a new vet asap. Tortoise vets are slim around here. I am sure you can't order Baytril from Amazon can you hahahha


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## KristaAZ (Jun 4, 2018)

Yvonne G said:


> I don't worry too much about the water temperature when soaking. I make it very warm, and if it cools, it can only get as cool as the temperature of the room it's in. I place a light over one end of the soaking tub to help it stay a little warmer.


That is a great idea with the light thank you!


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## Tom (Jun 4, 2018)

I agree with what Yvonne said on all points. She speaks from many years of experience there.

Your vet is not legally allowed to give you medical advice. I would not hold that against her. They tread a fine line. 

What I don't like about this sort of thing is that most vets treat the symptoms, but they never address, discover and correct the _cause_ of the sickness. Wild animals don't just get sick for no reason. Something is off in the care and husbandry. If that something isn't discovered and fixed, the tortoise will not get better, and this will be a re-occurring and likely fatal problem. Why did your tortoise get sick in the first place? In most cases they get an RI from cold damp temps. It is hot now, but this is something you might need to address this fall and over winter.


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## KristaAZ (Jun 4, 2018)

TriciaStringer said:


> I know she acts like she wants out, but keep her in the water. It is what is best for her. I set my timer in 15 minute increments and scoop out the water to replace it with warmer water. Pooping in the water is one of the things they do best.



I didn't know they pooped and peed in the water! I have never seen her do that. I keep seeing that in the post. That would be awesome if I can get her to!


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## Tom (Jun 4, 2018)

KristaAZ said:


> I didn't know they pooped and peed in the water! I have never seen her do that. I keep seeing that in the post. That would be awesome if I can get her to!


It looks to me like she is blocked up with a lot more than just the O ring. Is your tortoise housed on sand or sandy dirt?

Another way to keep the soak water warm is to put the soaking tub outside and partially in the sun. You have to monitor the water temp VERY carefully this way, but it is effective. I do it all the time. But check that water temp every few minutes.


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## KristaAZ (Jun 4, 2018)

Tom said:


> I agree with what Yvonne said on all points. She speaks from many years of experience there.
> 
> Your vet is not legally allowed to give you medical advice. I would not hold that against her. They tread a fine line.
> 
> What I don't like about this sort of thing is that most vets treat the symptoms, but they never address, discover and correct the _cause_ of the sickness. Wild animals don't just get sick for no reason. Something is off in the care and husbandry. If that something isn't discovered and fixed, the tortoise will not get better, and this will be a re-occurring and likely fatal problem. Why did your tortoise get sick in the first place? In most cases they get an RI from cold damp temps. It is hot now, but this is something you might need to address this fall and over winter.



Thank you for your reply! 

That's what they kept saying is that they can't give medical advice. I really do get that. I told them I just wanted to know if I should be concerned, take immediate action, something?? I feel like she could have said these are possible things tortoises can carry, and you can get XYZ from them. I just wanted some general info, versus having to google and not know what's true. 

I got her from someone so she had it when I got her. She told me that she gets a cold and if she has symptoms to tell her and she will give me some drops. Ya...it's way more complicated then that. I had no idea. I few winters ago she was sick so I had to bring her in. 

They did bloodwork and found out she is anemic. The vet said we aren't even going to think about that yet until she is healthy.


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## KristaAZ (Jun 4, 2018)

Tom said:


> It looks to me like she is blocked up with a lot more than just the O ring. Is your tortoise housed on sand or sandy dirt?
> 
> Another way to keep the soak water warm is to put the soaking tub outside and partially in the sun. You have to monitor the water temp VERY carefully this way, but it is effective. I do it all the time. But check that water temp every few minutes.



That's what the vet said. That she is full of little rocks too. I don't see too many rocks come out in her poop. No no sand, but there are a lot of rocks. I will try to soak her outside (and monitor her). It's going to be 109 degrees today!!


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## Tom (Jun 4, 2018)

Yours is older and should be able to live outside with a burrow for most of the year, but consider these when you have to house the tortoise inside in fall, and winter. Care for DTs is the same as it is for russians, but more grass in the diet for DTs. This info should help with your indoor housing:
https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/beginner-mistakes.45180/
https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/russian-tortoise-care-sheet.80698/


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## Tom (Jun 4, 2018)

KristaAZ said:


> That's what the vet said. That she is full of little rocks too. I don't see too many rocks come out in her poop. No no sand, but there are a lot of rocks. I will try to soak her outside (and monitor her). It's going to be 109 degrees today!!



If the temp is anywhere near 100, soak the tortoise outside but in full shade. I use large plastic tubs. Make the water come about half way up the shell. With a blockage like what you are seeing there, I would soak this tortoise for two hours a day and do you best to get some mineral oil into her. Put it on the romaine.


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## KristaAZ (Jun 4, 2018)

Tom said:


> If the temp is anywhere near 100, soak the tortoise outside but in full shade. I use large plastic tubs. Make the water come about half way up the shell. With a blockage like what you are seeing there, I would soak this tortoise for two hours a day and do you best to get some mineral oil into her. Put it on the romaine.



Perfect it will be 109 today!!! haha. I usually fill it until it's about around her neck (so her head is out of the water). She pulls her head in and out of the water. Dumb question, but can you tell me more about what soaking does (besides the obvious of rehdyrating). I am just wondering why such a long soak time? I am good with it, just curious. Do they like to be in water? Tortoises can't swim correct? She has put her head under the water for several minutes and it freaks me out so I lift up to make her stand up more so she is out of the water.


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## teresaf (Jun 4, 2018)

KristaAZ said:


> Hi! Thank you so much! I have been soaking her about 10 minutes almost every day. I put her in my sink and when she starts trying to climb out I take her out lol. She lives outside.


At LEAST 30 min soaks.. keep water warm (about 95-100f). Her trying to get out actually is good for the digestive system so **** her off and leave her in longer.


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## KristaAZ (Jun 4, 2018)

teresaf said:


> At LEAST 30 min soaks.. keep water warm (about 95-100f). Her trying to get out actually is good for the digestive system so **** her off and leave her in longer.



hahahha thank you! I will!! =)


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## Taylor T. (Jun 4, 2018)

Just a thought:

I don't know that much about reading medical X-rays, but I do know how X-rays work in general. You see, a rubber O-ring would not bounce back enough electrons at the sensor to produce those bright white pixels on the image. A metal washer however, certainly could.

If it is a ferrous metal washer, could you somehow use a strong magnet to get it out?


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## mark1 (Jun 4, 2018)

KristaAZ said:


> First she was on Batryel. It worked, but didn't fully get rid of it. Then the vet switched her to oxytetracycline. She actually had to get the injections from another vet out of state because apparently it only comes in oral form in the US, but you can get the injections from Europe??




i believe your vet knows what she is doing ............ i would say the nasal washes would help ........... it may take a long time to clear it up , but the tortoise should be showing improvement .......


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## Maro2Bear (Jun 4, 2018)

Taylor T. said:


> Just a thought:
> 
> I don't know that much about reading medical X-rays, but I do know how X-rays work in general. You see, a rubber O-ring would not bounce back enough electrons at the sensor to produce those bright white pixels on the image. A metal washer however, certainly could.
> 
> If it is a ferrous metal washer, could you somehow use a strong magnet to get it out?



That was my first gut impression as well. Clearly defined edges as well, nothing ragged..I’m going with metal.


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## Yvonne G (Jun 4, 2018)

KristaAZ said:


> Perfect it will be 109 today!!! haha. I usually fill it until it's about around her neck (so her head is out of the water). She pulls her head in and out of the water. Dumb question, but can you tell me more about what soaking does (besides the obvious of rehdyrating). I am just wondering why such a long soak time? I am good with it, just curious. Do they like to be in water? Tortoises can't swim correct? She has put her head under the water for several minutes and it freaks me out so I lift up to make her stand up more so she is out of the water.


The reason for the long soak is to make them tired of being in there and try to escape. Scrambling around, climbing the sides, trying to get out is what makes the poop let go and come out. A tortoise's mobility has very much to do with how well the digestive system works.


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## KristaAZ (Jun 4, 2018)

Yvonne G said:


> The reason for the long soak is to make them tired of being in there and try to escape. Scrambling around, climbing the sides, trying to get out is what makes the poop let go and come out. A tortoise's mobility has very much to do with how well the digestive system works.



She is not happy! . I need to get a deeper container. Sometimes she can hook her hand on top and get out . Thank you for all of the great info!


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## KristaAZ (Jun 4, 2018)

mark1 said:


> i believe your vet knows what she is doing ............ i would say the nasal washes would help ........... it may take a long time to clear it up , but the tortoise should be showing improvement .......



I am going to try to do this ASAP. I may have to go back to the original vet to get it. I love the vet. It’s the girl at the front who I wanted to throat punch


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## daniellenc (Jun 4, 2018)

You can soak in your bathtub or sink as well monitored of course!


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## ascott (Jun 4, 2018)

KristaAZ said:


> She is not happy! . I need to get a deeper container. Sometimes she can hook her hand on top and get out . Thank you for all of the great info!



LMAofff...I have never seen a tortoise with a hand... Okay, so let the tortoise soak for about 2 hours....whilst keeping an eye on from time to time to assure she has not flipped in the soaker....I would fill the water up as you have been...I would also begin to feed romaine, red and green leaf lettuce, especially if that is a familiar item she already likes and knows....you can also offer some squash and other yellow items....if she likes the red flowers...give her as many as she will eat....I agree with Tom that she is backed up with more than that mystery orb...I would also try to trick her into a bite or two of something that she likes and before you give it to her get a bit of mineral oil in/on the bite and do this a few times....that tort needs to be lubed up big time....I have cleared an old tort that was blocked/impacted with sand...when I got the old man he would not move, he would not eat....nothing....then I started soaking him 2 plus hours for weeks...and then one day I started blaming people for tracking in sand from outside (he staid in my office at a park I use to work at and had free range of the office...is was okay like that then  ) on their work boots..I bitched and moaned and gave everyone a what for...then I realized oh crap..those sand spots were the tort pooping out little sand balls...like perfect little round sand balls...once that started the rest was history....more soaks, more dandelion offerings (this is tortoise crack, as long as no chemicals on them) and then eventually the "dam" broke loose and once it did...there was sand everywhere...and then he began eating everything I offered and to this day he will put away and entire head of untrimmed romaine each and every day... along with anything else he finds, or is offered..

Be diligent and soak and offer food she likes so he will eat.....let her move about...take her for walks if at all possible....I also did this and the drive to walk will get stuff moving....BUT YOU CAN NEVER EVER EVER EVER take your eyes off her while walking....well, of course unless you are in a secure area fenced where you can locate her if she gives you the slip....sneaky buggers.


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## DesertGirl (Jun 6, 2018)

KristaAZ said:


> Hi! Thank you so much for the response. She is a Sonoran Desert Tortoise. She is outside in the backyard. She is outside and it’s so hot here already. The vet told me to leave her outside and not to bring her in. I am going to call my doctor this morning. I hope the needle stick is no big deal.


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## DesertGirl (Jun 6, 2018)

KristaAZ said:


> Hi! Thank you so much for the response. She is a Sonoran Desert Tortoise. She is outside in the backyard. She is outside and it’s so hot here already. The vet told me to leave her outside and not to bring her in. I am going to call my doctor this morning. I hope the needle stick is no big deal.



Right up front, let me say I am NOT a doctor. I wouldn’t worry one bit about that needle stick. Think about your size compared to a tort. Anything formulated for a 10 lb tort would be an infinitesimal amount for a human. That’s just me - I wouldn’t give it another thought.

I have a Sonoran DT, too! Glad to have you here! Haven’t seen too many SDT keepers here. Frisbee says hi from Las Vegas. 



KristaAZ said:


> Hi! Thank you so much for the response. She is a Sonoran Desert Tortoise. She is outside in the backyard. She is outside and it’s so hot here already. The vet told me to leave her outside and not to bring her in. I am going to call my doctor this morning. I hope the needle stick is no big deal.


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## Pearly (Jun 7, 2018)

Great advise above, just to add that my torts LOVE their bathtime ever since I switch them from smaller container to my guest bathtub. Back when I did they were tiny (2-3” long) and this was HUGE space for them. Now 3yrs later they are 10 and 11”, so not that much “swim room” anymore, but they are so used to their daily bath at sunset that it’s hard to give that routine up. It’s our special time together. I get to inspect them for potential scratches or bug bites after coming inside from the garden.

So maybe try bigger container, or the tub you had mentioned. Just remember, she WILL pee and poo in there. I have designated special tools for cleaning all that up[emoji6][emoji38]. As for RI and anemia, your tortie girl needs any help she can get now, so aside from daily long warm soaks (with babyfood- carrot, or prdialyte, or without), I’d keep that water warm. Have your temp gun handy, and I’d keep it at 95 at the lowest to 105F highest. That will be comfortable for her and she will be breathing those warm vapors right above the water surface. I’d also keep her inside at least at nite in a very humid, warm place (85F and humiditi in high 90’s), you can use a plastic container for that, put some substrate on the bottom and/or bunch of old (clean) rugsthat you don’t mind throwing away afterwards) and let her bury herself in those, or just cover her with a few. Cover it up with just a crack open and run in there your humidifier in there for 15-20 min. When your humidity gague shows 99%, and next morning there is condensation on the box’es walls, you’re in good shape. The point of all that is to let her breathe those WARM VAPORS as much as possible. That, hydration, and do all you can to get her to eat! Whatever it takes! If she likes only romaine, give it to her with slowly adding to it other things. Can soak Maxuri and coat the romaine with this mash like with a salad dressing. Just trwat her like a new sickly, fussy eater- hutchling. And be PATIENT! And persistent! Good food will hopefully help with anemia. Look into slowly adding some iton rich green leafy veggies, just don’t overdo on those as many of them may not be good for her calcium metabolism. She maybe weak and not have enough stamina to bite off her food, due to her lungs being compromised, so try chopping thing up, as finely as it takes. With the antibiotics, consider probiotic/prebiotic options... I know one thing for sure, that perseverance with torts really pays off. Sending my best healing vibes your way. Good luck, hugs[emoji217]


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