# Tortoise bathroom habits



## tortoisenerd (Dec 19, 2008)

Hi there, I have a new russian tortoise hatchling (approx. 4 months old). I have only had him a week, but I am trying to ensure that he'll be happy and healthy.

He did not poop until about 4-5 days after I got him (I assume his food intake was cut back before he was shipped), then he went a little two days in a row, and now a couple days without. I have been soaking him almost daily because of his young age, and I have never seen him go the bathroom in the water, either type. How long can they go without pooping until I should worry? Right now he's not eating consistently, but more days than not he's eaten at least a little bit, and a couple days he ate what seems like a lot for his size (a pile of salad about his size).

Any ways to easily add more fiber to his diet? I've tried cutting up timothy hay to put on his greens but I don't think he's touched it. I'd love to get him a little cactus but it doesn't seem very economical to buy and have shipped a big piece, and I haven't found any around here. I've seen him trying to nibble on timothy hay when he's burrowed under a pile, but I don't think he's had too much if any. His poop hasn't had any bits of hay in it that seems characteristic of say a Sulcata because of their intake.

Right now he's eating a variety of greens, and a few weeds and such that have grown from a seed mix (mostly chia right now). He gets calcium daily and TNT a few times a week. Planning to add a little Mazuri into his diet for variety as well. If anything, he's small for his age so the vet recommended to let him eat as much as he wants--I've been keeping out fresh food for him almost at all times (except maybe if he's already asleep for the night).

His behavior is very characteristic of a hatchling--a lot of sleeping/hiding, coming out to eat and bask only in the middle of the day for a bit. Getting him out of his "bed" and soaking in the lukewarm water gets him moving around and eatting quicker than if he does it on his own accord.

I have not noticed any pee since I have got him. Definitely not any urates. He has a water dish I've seen him in once, and I've replaced it daily in case he is peeing in there (would I be able to tell from the color of the water when I dump it?). Right now he's just on newspaper substrate with piles of hay and a lot of hides available (humid and dry). I assume that he could have peed on the newspaper and it could have dried before I saw it.

How often should I replace newspaper that doesn't get soiled? Every few days just in case?

On this thread is my explanation for keeping him on newspaper since I know that's generally not recommended: http://tortoiseforum.org/thread-5390.html

What frequency for urination is "normal" for a tortoise?

Thanks! Haven't been able to find any guidelines on this and he's my first tortoise. I was one of those that took a picture of his first poop...


----------



## krissy2288 (Dec 19, 2008)

if he have only pooped once in 5 days you should soak him more or for a longer time, he could be costipated...try not giving him too much food let him eat for 20 minutes then take the left overs out. that should be the perfect amount of food.


----------



## Yvonne G (Dec 19, 2008)

I very much doubt if you'll get a Russian to eat hay. They prefer broad leafed weeds and ground covers. Until you can get your Russian into an outdoor habitat with grazing, you can feed him the packaged greens mixture called "Spring Mix." The Russians love this. To the Spring Mix you can add bits of dandelion greens, endive, escarole, turnip greens and any of the lettuces except ice burg. I keep the Salad-Style hay from Carolina Pet Supply on hand for my grass-eating tortoises, and if I sprinkle this over the Russian's food, they won't eat that day. And my Russians are long-term captives and have very good appetites.

A good soak in warm water never fails to get a russian to poop.

Yvonne


----------



## Maggie Cummings (Dec 19, 2008)

I disagree with your Vet about substrate. I'd get him off newspaper and onto either orchid bark fine grade or bed a beast and sand a 50/50 mix. You didn't mention heat. What kind of lighting do you have? He needs some sort of a basking light and a UVB light. Russians like to burrow and he needs substrate of some sort to do that. He's not going to be able to metabolize his food if he's not warm enough. A basking temp of about 90 degrees is how I keep mine...I hope this helps you...I am in the Willamette Valley in Oregon so I know about keeping Russians here, you need to be careful about keeping him warm enough as they are prone to respiratory infections because it is so damp here...Here a couple of links for care sheets...

http://www.chelonia.org/Articles/russiantortoises.htm

http://www.russiantortoise.org/


----------



## tortoisenerd (Dec 19, 2008)

I have soaked him for up to 20 minutes, almost daily. He's never pooped in the water. The two times he went were : once after a big meal, and once at the vet once they warmed him up and stressed him out. He didn't eat today.

We had to switch from eco earth & sand because it was too cold/damp (we're still working on getting the temperatures up and have ordered a ceramic heat emitter), among other issues. We have a 100 watt Mega Ray bulb, and the house heat is up above 70 day and night until we get the heat emitter. He's been staying near the lamp in his hide while it's on 14 hours a day, and it's 90-95 directly under the bulb. Temps are remaining in the 70s-80s in his habitat with a temperature gradient, and the temperature drop at night into the upper 60s while the light is off. I know he's still too cold (he seems to need it even warmer than suggested to be active, so I'm hoping the heat emitter gets here soon). You'd think him spending all day in his hide under the light, except for maybe 10% of it that he was out walking around, would keep him warm enough as I stuck the temperature probe in there and it was in the high 80s where he was burrowed in some hay.

I'm getting him into some aspen shavings for part of his substrate when I clean his enclosure tomorrow while he's soaking--I still think we can't do anything moist now because he was too cold (not moving around at all, etc)--also he was getting stuff stuck in his joints between his shell and skin with the coconut fiber. I also plan to make a humid hide as I know that is important for shell growth. I would not describe his footing on the newspaper as slippery at all--he also has some tile, hay, and rocks to be climbing on for muscle development (I have watched him on the rocks and he can handle them).

I have read all the care sheets and have done months of research. He's getting a fairly good diet for it being winter. For this week I bought him spring mix, endive, kale, and spineless cactus. Also have some collard and mustard greens that are still fresh. Chia is all that has grown from the seeds I have so far, and he likes it. I have Mazuri on the way to add as part of his diet.


----------



## Maggie Cummings (Dec 20, 2008)

You are new to the world of tortoise keeping and you've gotten some pretty good advice, yet, you argue against that advice and I don't understand that. He's not eating because he's not warm enough. You can use a clamp light fixture and a black light bulb for warmth. I don't understand why or maybe the right word is how come it is so cold for him? I have 20 some odd chelonian under black light bulbs and they are all warm enough. I don't use a CHE because they use too much electricity and a black light bulb keeps them just as warm. There are numerous keepers here that use aspen shavings, I use orchid bark...good luck with your little one, keep asking questions...


----------



## Yvonne G (Dec 20, 2008)

Maybe covering the habitat will help keep the heat in.

Yvonne


----------



## tortoisenerd (Dec 20, 2008)

He pooped today! He was up and about early, I gave him a long soak, then he ate a bit, basked, and pooped, then ate more, and is now napping in a hide. I think he's doing better. =)

He sniffed at the pile of aspen and climbed around on it but didn't burrow yet.

I think at first he wasn't comfortable being out in the basking area to keep himself warm. He has a couple hides around there now and he didn't seem apprehensive at all today.

Maggie--I am not trying to argue, sorry you thought that. I'm just trying to do the best for him.


----------



## tortoisenerd (Dec 21, 2008)

All seems well over here as he peed today before I got up. He happened to pee all over his breakfast but it got cleaned up and replaced with fresh food for him. =) He's really into wheatgrass and cactus today, and I finally got him to eat the purple leaf bits in the spring mix (he'd like the green ones better).

He still doesn't want to investigate the aspen shavings but I'll give that time. I'd love to put more in his enclosure if I'm sure it wouldn't freak him out too much. He's been getting around great on his hay, slate tile, rocks, and newspaper. Hasn't been interested in the humid hide.


----------



## Meg90 (Dec 21, 2008)

I've never seen Nigel pass urates...I know that he soaks almost daily in his water dish...should I be worried? He pees and poops like normal...I have to spot clean every day, but I have never come across the white stuff. Is this ok?

I haven't soaked him yet (I will be doing so tomorrow) should I look for urates then?


----------



## krissy2288 (Dec 22, 2008)

if there is urates you would notice dumping the water out but if your tortoise doesn't have them it's perfectly fine.


----------

