# Brothers and Sisters: Some Thoughts on "Debate"



## Balboa (Mar 18, 2011)

Please forgive my condescending manner here, however I see a HUGE lack of understanding in our membership of what a debate means. Used properly, it is a useful tool to explore ideas and broaden our knowledge, used improperly its a force of dissention which is what we've been seeing here for a long time.

First Off. DETACH YOURSELVES EMOTIONALLY. This is the toughest part of debate. We are drawn to topics that we believe in and want our thoughts to "Win". In true "Debate" as a practice you may have to argue for something you don't even believe in. Its about representing a side of an argument to its fullest and letting logic weigh the evidence presented.

Far too often we see somebody questioning or disagreeing with our statements as a personal attack. Our feelings are hurt and we either counter attack on a personal level or withdraw completely. Instead of feeling hurt, this should be a call to re-evaluate our position or come up with further evidence. Address the questions.

PERSONAL ATTACKS HAVE NO PLACE. Never use deragatory language. Dumb, stupid, ignorant, etc have no place, EVEN IF TRUE. By referring to somebody's idea as "dumb" you ARE calling them "dumb". They are the source of that idea. Instead point out the failings in their argument, try to show them why you think they are in err. The reality is some people are "dumb". That doesn't mean they may not have good ideas, just as some "smart" people may have ideas without substance.

Some Examples:

Balboa to the guys- "Like my new shoes? Do they suit me?"

Non-Debate Responses:

Paul "No those are Ugly"
Tom "They're brown, yuck, I only wear blue."
John "What're you a girl?"
Dean "ROCK ON, killer shoes. Paul and Tom are dumb."
Neal "I don't wear shoes"
Mark "I don't see the relevance here"
Balboa "You guys are jerks, I'm outta here"

Better:

Paul "I don't care for that style personally, but maybe it would work better on you with some boot cut jeans."
Tom "I'm not a fan of brown, but they do accent your eyes nicely"
John "Dude, it seems a little strange you asking this. Is there something you'd like to talk about?"
Dean "Very nice shoes, and I kinda think they go with the jeans you're wearing just fine."
Neal "Since I don't wear shoes this is tough for me, but if I try to imagine myself in those shoes, they seem nice."
Mark "+1 on the boot cut jeans, but I don't really agree that they match your eyes. Maybe we need to go check these out in a few different colors to find the one that really matches best."
Balboa "Oh thanks guys, I appreciate the input, I know I can count on you. I've been meaning to make some changes in how I present myself to the world and not be such a slob anymore, John, that's all."

Hope this helps folks. You're all my friends and I really like having an avenue to explore ideas with you all.

CAN'T WE ALL JUST GET ALONG!!!!!


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## John (Mar 18, 2011)

lol ican't wait for my wife too get home so i can show her this one p.s. are they heals brett


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## Madkins007 (Mar 18, 2011)

Hmmm... I don't see the relevance here.


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## Laura (Mar 18, 2011)

love it...


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## Torty Mom (Mar 18, 2011)

Awesome and to the point!


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## Neal (Mar 18, 2011)

How did you know I don't wear shoes?

Really though, these are all good things to point out Balboa and I think it's good what you're trying to do here, but, we're all on computers and reading other peoples thoughts interpreting them the way OUR minds are programmed to do. Because everyone's different the points get all mixed up and misinterpreted. Even your "better" responses could still spark emotion in people as easily as non-debate responses. I think what we've seen in the past couple of days is the nature of an online debate, and all the disclaimers or reminders in the world would probably never change that. 

I like your point about everyone wanting to 'win'. Keeping an open mind is the way to have a good debate, but, understanding that it's OK to be wrong is a hard thing to learn.

I think if we were all in the same room face to face and knew each other a bit more, it would be a lot more productive.


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## dmmj (Mar 18, 2011)

what are shoes?


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## bikerchicspain (Mar 18, 2011)

What you are trying to say is right on the nail.
But i have never seen anyone commenting in a derrogative manner.
Most of the members, if wrong about anything they will accept that and stand corrected,
I have been corrected on a few things by Yvonne, of which i thank her kindly because i know she has more knowledge of torts than i and i am the first one to take in what is said and why i have been corrected,Just because i get something wrong doesnt mean i know less or more than anyone- Hense her being an expert.
Its not that people actually say your dumb, but there are people that are not good with words and it all comes out wrong and taken out of context.

Thie reason i signed up to the forum is to broaden my knowledge.

But you are right no one should be called dumb, unless you know them personally.
The rules on the forum should be first and fore most be respectful to other users.imo..


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## Marty333 (Mar 18, 2011)

I.Love.This.


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## John (Mar 18, 2011)

Marty333 said:


> I.Love.This.


what do you know your a fifty year old man.lol


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## Marty333 (Mar 18, 2011)

squamata said:


> Marty333 said:
> 
> 
> > I.Love.This.
> ...



That is true.......  I got new shoes today for real!!!


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## John (Mar 18, 2011)

Marty333 said:


> squamata said:
> 
> 
> > Marty333 said:
> ...


did balboa pic them out?


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## Marty333 (Mar 18, 2011)

Well if he likes pumps and wedges then yes


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## Balboa (Mar 18, 2011)

Thanks for all the responses folks, good points and good debating Neal 

Why yes, of course they have heals John, I'm short LOL

Now you got me curious finleafeater, PM that to me please


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## DeanS (Mar 18, 2011)

Balboa said:


> Dean "ROCK ON, killer shoes. Paul and Tom are dumb."



Hey! I NEVER said Tom was dumb! 



finleafeater said:


> EDIT: video deleted because I actually watched the end and its really vulgar
> hahah



Yeah! But just how many times did you watch the end?!?!


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## onarock (Mar 18, 2011)

Ha! You just cant let it go, can you? Do you drive a Corvette? or some other flashy car? HMMMM. Why Onarock, what ever do you mean?



DeanS said:


> Balboa said:
> 
> 
> > Dean "ROCK ON, killer shoes. Paul and Tom are dumb."
> ...


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## DeanS (Mar 18, 2011)

onarock said:


> Ha! You just cant let it go, can you? Do you drive a Corvette? or some other flashy car? HMMMM. Why Onarock, what ever do you mean?
> 
> 
> 
> ...





All in jest! No harm intended!


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## Edna (Mar 18, 2011)

Neal said:


> I like your point about everyone wanting to 'win'. Keeping an open mind is the way to have a good debate, but, understanding that it's OK to be wrong is a hard thing to learn.


....being right and getting others to acknowledge that you are right are two very different things. I love the beauty of logic in debate, and I understand that we want to arrive at the truth and determine the facts. I just don't "get" or understand the blood and guts of debate or why people engage in it.


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## harris (Mar 18, 2011)

I'm joining in late, but I would love to get in the squared circle with squa and onarock and have DeanS as my cornerman. When people become so annoying and useless...... Tortoises people.


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## onarock (Mar 18, 2011)

3 years ago I changed my arena from the squared circle to the circle. Anytime



harris said:


> I'm joining in late, but I would love to get in the squared circle with squa and onarock and have DeanS as my cornerman. When people become so annoying and useless...... Tortoises people.


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## Balboa (Mar 18, 2011)

harris said:


> I'm joining in late, but I would love to get in the squared circle with squa and onarock and have DeanS as my cornerman. When people become so annoying and useless...... Tortoises people.



This is a prime example of non-debate. No gray area here. Pure threat and insult without any substance or merit.


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## harris (Mar 18, 2011)

All kidding aside little fellar..... Quit arguing with people just to argue. Doesn't make sense. You and *inappropiate name calling so deleted by Mod Jacqui* said your goodbyes a month or two ago, then "BANG", you both came back at the same time; to fire up and annoy people. There is nothing for you twins can offer. And Tom? To knock that guy? Shame on you guys. This dude has done nothing but offer help, welcome those that need it, and ask questions himself.


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## Balboa (Mar 19, 2011)

Frustration...


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## onarock (Mar 19, 2011)

Is that your contribution? You come on here making threats and name calling. I just figured it out... Your one of those internet tough guys. Say whatever you want because your 6,000 miles away and cringing behind a screen. I'll bet you got one of those list of all the people who tossed you around in school. Let me help you out... quit with all the tough guy stuff and get a gym membership then go seek out the guys your really pissed at. Your welcome



harris said:


> All kidding aside little fellar..... Quit arguing with people just to argue. Doesn't make sense. You and your *deleted name calling* said your goodbyes a month or two ago, then "BANG", you both came back at the same time; to fire up and annoy people. There is nothing for you twins can offer. And Tom? To knock that guy? Shame on you guys. This dude has done nothing but offer help, welcome those that need it, and ask questions himself.


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## harris (Mar 19, 2011)

I apologize to all. We have kids overseas giving their lives for something as simple as this.


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## onarock (Mar 19, 2011)

I apoligize as well. Harris makes an excellent point, thanks for putting it in perspective harris.



harris said:


> I apologize to all. We have kids overseas giving their lives for something as simple as this.


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## harris (Mar 19, 2011)

You had me at "Hello". Ok, everybody cuddle now. You too DMMJ.[/font]


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## stells (Mar 19, 2011)

Shouldn't this be in off topic debates 

I don't care what shoes you wear...


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## John (Mar 19, 2011)

lol,its a travasty of a mockery of a sham of an injustice


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## Jacqui (Mar 19, 2011)

Balboa said:


> Frustration...



Sums it all up pretty good for me, too!


Folks reminder stay on topic. More importantly stop the name calling it is not allowed!


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## bikerchicspain (Mar 19, 2011)

It took me a while to figure it out but you are all MAD.......


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## ALDABRAMAN (Mar 20, 2011)

A good debate is healthy! Debate class was fun!


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