# Is it Okay to Leave My Russians Outdoors Tonight



## rockyMTNtortoise (May 6, 2012)

Hey all, 

I have had my 2 Russian Tortoises outdoors day and night the last 3 weeks with nitetime lows average in the low 40s. Tonight it is raining and the low is supposed to be around 38 degrees F. I was wondering if this temperature and with addition of rain okay for the to be out all nite. This would be first time its rained since they have been outdoors the last 3 weeks. Thank You,

Brandon


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## LeaderLeprechaun (May 7, 2012)

omg you do realize that russians should be kept around 70 to almost 90 degrees F? why are you leaving them out in the cold like that?

the lowest i would have for night time temps are in the 60s. here is a caresheet.
http://www.russiantortoise.org/care_sheet.htm

so i would advice you def dont leave your torts out at night when its that chill


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## Tom (May 7, 2012)

I wouldn't leave them out.


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## GeoTerraTestudo (May 7, 2012)

LeaderLeprechaun said:


> omg you do realize that russians should be kept around 70 to almost 90 degrees F? why are you leaving them out in the cold like that?
> 
> the lowest i would have for night time temps are in the 60s. here is a caresheet.
> http://www.russiantortoise.org/care_sheet.htm
> ...





They have a bunch of tricks to maintain daytime body temperatures in the 70s to low 80s, nighttime body temperatures in the 60s, and digesting temperatures in the 90s. Everyone knows they bask to elevate their body temperature, but tortoises like Russians and some other species also dig to insulate themselves against extremes of heat and cold.

During the growing season, they're supposed to have a low of 60*F _in their burrows_. That means air temperatures could drop much lower than that (just as during the winter, they can hibernate with a burrow temperature around 45*F, even though outside it's below freezing; or during the summer they could aestivate in a burrow with temperatures in the 80s, while outside it's in the 110s).

We don't have a backyard yet, so my tortoises may spend their days out on our porch, but not their nights (since they would be unable to burrow to escape the elements). As long as their burrow is dry, I would think those conditions are fine, since they are similar to what these animals would encounter in their native Central Asia. On the other hand, Central Asia grasslands get more rain in the summer, while our grasslands here in the Great Plains get more rain in the spring, so it might be simultaneously too cold and wet for them, but I'm not sure. I do eventually plan to keep my torts outdoors full-time here in Colorado, but as I do not have direct experience with that yet, I cannot advise you. Ask some more experienced temperate Russian tortoise keepers, like GBTortoises.


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## LeaderLeprechaun (May 7, 2012)

GeoTerraTestudo said:


> LeaderLeprechaun said:
> 
> 
> > omg you do realize that russians should be kept around 70 to almost 90 degrees F? why are you leaving them out in the cold like that?
> ...





i still personally wouldnt though. im not one to risk hurting my tortoises even though they may be used to a specific climate.


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## Tom (May 7, 2012)

Again, we are discussing what they could possibly survive, or what they MIGHT encounter in the wild, vs. what is best or optimal for them. For my tortoises, I am not interested in testing the extremes. I'm interested in providing for them the best that I can.


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## GeoTerraTestudo (May 7, 2012)

Tom said:


> Again, we are discussing what they could possibly survive, or what they MIGHT encounter in the wild, vs. what is best or optimal for them. For my tortoises, I am not interested in testing the extremes. I'm interested in providing for them the best that I can.



LOL ... sounds like an echo of the hibernation debate. 

As I said, I have not tried this myself, so I cannot say whether this is advisable or not. All I ask is this: if the climate is suitable for a given tortoise species, wouldn't it be best to leave them out all the time, rain or shine, as long as they are safe from predators? I don't know.


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## Tom (May 7, 2012)

GeoTerraTestudo said:


> Tom said:
> 
> 
> > Again, we are discussing what they could possibly survive, or what they MIGHT encounter in the wild, vs. what is best or optimal for them. For my tortoises, I am not interested in testing the extremes. I'm interested in providing for them the best that I can.
> ...



I don't know... I agree with you that animals that hibernate in the wild should be carefully and safely hibernated in captivity too. I won't go so far as to say they alsolutely HAVE to hibernate, but I think they should. However, I think this discussion is something different.

What constitutes suitable? Define suitable. Their own habitat in the wild has unsuitable weather and kills a percentage of them a percentage of the time. It's so easy to blur the lines between "suitable", "survivable", and everyone's opinion of "optimal".

Next we must define "best". Is it "best"for them to experience good and bad days weather wise? Or is it "best" to provide a growing baby with what we know to be the optimal temps and conditions for that species. Is there a health benefit to exposing them to a day or a few days of "bad" weather? Sure, in most cases they can survive it, bit is it "good" for them? I CAN say that being indoors in a proper enclosure with the right temps IS good for them.

There is no doubt that they can survive in suitable climates, but whether or not that is "best" for them, I do not know. It does make for interesting discussion, in my opinion.


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## LeaderLeprechaun (May 7, 2012)

i will say that i take my red foot outdoors to soak in the rain for an hour but i wont leave him out there and NEVER overnight. he may be able to handle it but id be too worried about him getting too cold seeing as mississippi isnt exactly south america when it comes to temperatures. so this is a good debate discussion for good ole times sake but id rather be safe than sorry and bring the babies inside


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## tyrs4u (May 7, 2012)

To avoid sniffles and any health risks I would bring them in until it warms up, or only leave them outside from 9am to 5pm after that it's probably to cold for the two of them. The 60 degree rule is pretty much true with RT's a constant temp for them is needed. But not necessary if they are in good health and nothing has changed... Animals can acclimate.


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## Neltharion (May 7, 2012)

Outdoor Russians depend on burrowing to regulate body temperatures when exposed to extreme conditions. If daytime highs are reasonably warm enough for them, they can handle much colder temps as long as they can burrow down deep enough to help insulate themselves. 

I know several keepers up here in Northern California that keep Russians outdoors year round. Their torts are healthy and breeding. Many Russians came out of brumation in late February/ early March. For much of March and April, night time lows dipped in the 30's and 40's. Russians that are used to being outdoors year round can tolerate this exposure, again as long as they are able to burrow deep enough.

One thing of note, if you've kept your torts indoors over the winter at relatively stable temps and night time lows in 70's. Its not good to abruptly expose them to temps in the 30's and 40's. 

Mine were kept in the garage over the winter, where they were exposed to drops in the 60's. Now that daytime highs are in the 80's up here, I put them outside during the day, but bring them back in at night, where we are still experiencing lows in the 40's and 50's.

The question of should they be allowed to live outdoors year round if the climate is suitable is an interesting one. I know many keepers that would say 'yes' (and some of my friends that have kept Russians for many years do keep theirs outdoors year round without suffering losses). Though, I think I agree with the point that just because they are capable of surviving extreme temperatures, doesn't necessarily mean we should expose them. I think of it in terms of us as humans, we can tolerate extreme temps in the 20's and even lower assuming we are dressed appropriately, and high temps above 100. We 'survive' those temperatures just fine, but are we comfortable? Given the choice of being in 70-80 degree sunny weather or being in 20 degrees and snow or 100+ extreme heat, what would we choose for ourselves?


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## tyrs4u (May 7, 2012)

Love Neltharion's post...  so true... I forgot to mention the burrowing thing. But I forget since they always have a huge amount of substrate to help themselves...


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## GeoTerraTestudo (May 7, 2012)

LeaderLeprechaun said:


> i will say that i take my red foot outdoors to soak in the rain for an hour but i wont leave him out there and NEVER overnight. he may be able to handle it but id be too worried about him getting too cold seeing as mississippi isnt exactly south america when it comes to temperatures. so this is a good debate discussion for good ole times sake but id rather be safe than sorry and bring the babies inside



Remember: there is a big difference in climate between Mississippi and Venezuela, but not a big difference in climate between Colorado and Kazakhstan.

Again, I am not necessarily advocating keeping an established Russian tortoise outside in the rain; I am merely suggesting that it may not be bad.



Tom said:


> I don't know... I agree with you that animals that hibernate in the wild should be carefully and safely hibernated in captivity too. I won't go so far as to say they alsolutely HAVE to hibernate, but I think they should. However, I think this discussion is something different.
> 
> What constitutes suitable? Define suitable. Their own habitat in the wild has unsuitable weather and kills a percentage of them a percentage of the time. It's so easy to blur the lines between "suitable", "survivable", and everyone's opinion of "optimal".
> 
> ...





Neltharion said:


> The question of should they be allowed to live outdoors year round if the climate is suitable is an interesting one. I know many keepers that would say 'yes' (and some of my friends that have kept Russians for many years do keep theirs outdoors year round without suffering losses). Though, I think I agree with the point that just because they are capable of surviving extreme temperatures, doesn't necessarily mean we should expose them. I think of it in terms of us as humans, we can tolerate extreme temps in the 20's and even lower assuming we are dressed appropriately, and high temps above 100. We 'survive' those temperatures just fine, but are we comfortable? Given the choice of being in 70-80 degree sunny weather or being in 20 degrees and snow or 100+ extreme heat, what would we choose for ourselves?



Yes, you guys are right to point out that there is a big difference between "tolerate," and "benefit from." I don't want to derail this thread (unless you guys want me to ), but I do find this topic very interesting. For now, though, let me just pose this question:

Given a "suitable" climate, would a tortoise prefer to live a semi-wild existence in your backyard, or be brought indoors during inclement weather?

As you say, many turtles die in the wild every year due to bad weather, bad health, or a combination of the two, and we certainly don't want that to happen. But what if a tortoise is healthy? Maybe it's better to just leave him out there to take care of himself?

Just a thought.


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## GBtortoises (May 7, 2012)

rockyMTNtortoise said:


> Hey all,
> 
> I have had my 2 Russian Tortoises outdoors day and night the last 3 weeks with nitetime lows average in the low 40s. Tonight it is raining and the low is supposed to be around 38 degrees F. I was wondering if this temperature and with addition of rain okay for the to be out all nite. This would be first time its rained since they have been outdoors the last 3 weeks. Thank You,
> 
> Brandon



Whether or not they can stay out in those temperatures with wet conditions around them really depends upon what type of shelter they have and if it will keep them dry enough to wait out the wet weather.


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## LeaderLeprechaun (May 8, 2012)

GeoTerraTestudo said:


> LeaderLeprechaun said:
> 
> 
> > i will say that i take my red foot outdoors to soak in the rain for an hour but i wont leave him out there and NEVER overnight. he may be able to handle it but id be too worried about him getting too cold seeing as mississippi isnt exactly south america when it comes to temperatures. so this is a good debate discussion for good ole times sake but id rather be safe than sorry and bring the babies inside
> ...





i dont care that mississippi is dif in climate. i was only referring to the temperature dif and the safety for his torts. tbh it doesnt matter where you are in the world as to whether you have a tort or not. its how you keep them. this thread like you say wasnt in the first place meant for a debate but to ensure safety for an animal in which may or may not be comfortable outside in the cold.


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## Skymall007 (May 8, 2012)

Mine have spent the night outside against my will because I couldn't find them. (Long story, now he is never unsupervised). One of mine (foster care) escaped the yard. Thankfully we found him and he was safe. It's important to remember that these slow guys are faster and stronger than they might seem. The other concern would be wild animals. A number of animals could get a hold of them. I personally wouldn't do it. I also have a Russian, and not only are they very good at escaping, but they are excellent at digging, hiding, and blending in. They can be hard to find even in small areas. I like knowing the Minster is safe inside.


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## lynnedit (May 8, 2012)

GBtortoises has many years of experience raising tortoises, including Russians.
They are definitely happiest being outside, to some extent, doing what they choose to do. However, conditions to have to be right (dry, not wet).

Brandon, your tortoises sound acclimated. Do they have somewhere dry, where they can burrow down, if needed?


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## dmmj (May 8, 2012)

@ 38 and raining I would not keep them outside myself,
(puts on moderator hat and official underwear)
I hate to do this but this is not a debate thread, if you want to continue to debate please move it there, thank you.


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## Arizona Sulcata (May 8, 2012)

I keep most of my torts outside (minus hatchlings) even if its super cold. If you do that though, they need a shelter with heat lamps. Never keep a tortoise outside, exposed to the elements without a heat source and shelter.


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## conservation (May 9, 2012)

I live in Southern California and purchased Ibera Greeks and keep my Adult Ibera Greeks outdoors year round. They hibernate every year around November and wake up from hibernation every year in April. It gets down to the mid to high 30's a few times a year. They are provided a dog house with hay that has been modified to stay dry even during intense storms.

I used to worry so much about them every night the first few years. Going out during rainstorms and carrying the entire dog house inside the house because I was worried about them was common. As time went by I realized that they did not need to be brought inside during cold nights or during the rain.

I would say the same is true with Russians, as long as they are given a shelter that stays DRY. 

Mind you, I would not throw a tortoise who has never been out of a heated, glass vivarium into a 30 degree night. I feel like Spring and Summer time is the best time to introduces them to night time temperatures. Of, course I am talking about healthy tortoises.

I have kept and bred many different reptiles. The reasons I love the Mediterranean Tortoises so much is that the Southern California climate allows me to let my tortoises exist in a semi wild state. As wild as they can be in a backyard .

If I lived in Colorado, I would be trying a similar thing with Russians.

I attached a picture of my favorite tortoise who just recently woke up from hibernation on his own terms. I feel like some times we forget tortoises existed without us.

A more extreme example of this is during a recent conversation with my neighbor, who has been a member of the local tortoises society and has owned many tortoises for over 50 years (the same ones) told me about how five years ago he rescued a Sulcata that's shell was cracked. He repaired the shell with fiberglass.

Over the last five years, he has kept that Sulcata in is backyard without any supplemental heat at night or during the winter. His Sulcata has a series of burrows it uses. That neighbor has some of the healthiest tortoises I have ever seen. That tortoises isnt merely "surviving" , it is thriving.

These are just my experiences.


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## GeoTerraTestudo (May 9, 2012)

As mentioned above, Russian tortoises can tolerate conditions fine, as long as they can burrow and do not become soaked. In the wild, they probably achieve this by burrowing into slopes, so that the rain doesn't get into their burrows (please see my new thread, "Ecology of the steppe tortoise in the wild" for more on this topic). In a backyard, I would think that you could use a doghouse-type structure to cover the area where the tortoise burrow. As long as they stay dry in there, they should be fine.


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## rockyMTNtortoise (May 12, 2012)

lynnedit said:


> GBtortoises has many years of experience raising tortoises, including Russians.
> They are definitely happiest being outside, to some extent, doing what they choose to do. However, conditions to have to be right (dry, not wet).
> 
> Brandon, your tortoises sound acclimated. Do they have somewhere dry, where they can burrow down, if needed?



Sorry for just getting back to you, I have been sick with strep throat the last week, not feeling like getting on the computer nor doing anyting else. My tortoises have a very secure outdoor enclosure
with locked lids, substrate 1/2 top soil, 1/2 sand, nice dry hide, they can burrow atleast 6-12 inches if they want. I have just planted Russian Tortoise Grazing Mix in their habitat, coming out nicely, have established Rose plant and Daylily plant in there also. I have had my RTs since Aug 2011 and I love them very much. With 2 veteranarians opinions I decided not to hibernate them this winter to ensure that they were healthy. I did bring in my Russian Tortoises inside the other nite after all the good feedback, thank you for that, this site is awesome!!!



Pets101 said:


> I live in Southern California and purchased Ibera Greeks and keep my Adult Ibera Greeks outdoors year round. They hibernate every year around November and wake up from hibernation every year in April. It gets down to the mid to high 30's a few times a year. They are provided a dog house with hay that has been modified to stay dry even during intense storms.
> 
> I used to worry so much about them every night the first few years. Going out during rainstorms and carrying the entire dog house inside the house because I was worried about them was common. As time went by I realized that they did not need to be brought inside during cold nights or during the rain.
> 
> ...





Just more information from me, I live at ~ 7000 ft elevation, which from a lot of research I did before rescuing 1 RT, and purchasing another RT, is a pretty common elevation for RTs in their natural enviroment in Afghanistan, Uzbekistan, China, etc... I wanted to have a tortoise that I could best attempt to provide similar surroundings and the Colorado climate/weather is very similar to their native habitat. Just wanted to make sure everyone knew that I was well-prepared to care for my RTs and I take their safety very serious, thank you everyone again for all the great feedback.


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