# good outside (and last minute) heater?



## herbortamus (Jan 4, 2012)

My tort, Herbert, and I are moving tomorrow into our new houses. I built him an insulated 4'x4' house in my backyard and have two 150w CHEs for the inside. I did a test run with one of them (I couldn't put the other in because he is currently using it), and it didn't heat up the house as much as I had hoped. The temps outside right now are getting down into the low 30s and this is the first time he will be living outside so I'm really nervous. My temp sensor put his inside temp at 40 degrees and it was bout 31 outside. Some of that inside heat might be from me because I was working in there with a small light to install the lamps. This is usually as cold as it gets here.

Basically I'm freaking out about my poor baby living outside. I want to keep him inside MY new house until the weather warms, but I have no place for him built. What could I get for him last minute for extra heat? Being last minute it would have to be something I could pick up in a retail store. Herbert is an 8 year old Sulcata. And don't ask for pictures of the house! I took many, but they aren't with me now, so I promise to post them when I get over there today.


----------



## Yvonne G (Jan 4, 2012)

Hi Nicole:

Go to a big pet store like Petsmart or Pet Extreme and see if they have heaters for dog houses. Its a pad similar to a pig blanket. It won't be as sturdy and a pig blanket, but it will do in a pinch. You'll have to keep checking on it to be sure the tortoise isn't digging a hole in it, but it should last you his first winter outside.

I'm thinking something like this only you don't need the fleece cover:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000PSRN20/?tag=exoticpetnetw-20


----------



## Zamric (Jan 4, 2012)

This is WalkingRocks House, It is 4'x7.5' and the little heater you see in the corner is from Walmart and is a Mini-Oil Filled Radiator, it cost $25-$30 depending on your area. It is 5" wide X 13" long and 17" tall and keeps WalkingRocks house at about 69-75 deg when the door is shut and the temps outside are just below freezing.


----------



## Tom (Jan 4, 2012)

I use both the oil heaters and the CHEs with pig blankets, in different enclosures. I also install a thermostat so that I don't waste any electricity on warm days and so that it doesn't overheat. I use the "A Life" thermostat, and I buy mine form LLL Reptile.


I think you better just keep him in the house until you get your heating stuff installed and temp tested. Even if he hangs out in the bath tub of a darkened bathroom or something. I 150 watt CHE puts out A LOT of heat and he could get burned on the top of his carapace. You'll want to thoroughly test all your temps at tortoise level before having him sleep in there. Here's one of mine:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/Thread-The-Mother-of-All-Tortoise-Boxes#axzz1iVUGeeXs


----------



## herbortamus (Jan 4, 2012)

Good suggestions. I think I will check for the mini oil heater and dog blankets. And when you mentioned bathtub I realized I have a large corner garden tub in my new bathroom. I think I will put him in there at night untill I can iron out the kinks. Maybe I'll even give him a bubble bath!!!

Also, for my temp readings, I think I might have to move the remote sensor closer to the heat lamps. I think I put it too far away to get an accurate reading. So it may not be as cold as I think out there.

Thanks guys. I am recently divorced and I have never had to take care of him by myself before. I hope that doesn't make it sound like a chore - I love him more than anything.


----------



## ascott (Jan 4, 2012)

I also agree with Tom....you want to make sure his house is all aok before you have him out to depend on an unproven set up.....


----------



## chairman (Jan 4, 2012)

If you happen to live near a feed or farm supply store they may carry pig blankets. One of the ones close to my house does, and I don't live anywhere particularly rural.


----------



## ascott (Jan 4, 2012)

Nicole you will do fine.....


----------



## herbortamus (Jan 4, 2012)

I've tried the local feed stores and no one has the blankets

I've tried the local feed stores and no one has the blankets. I've seen the suggestion to use oil heaters before, but I can never find them. How about a mini ceramic heater(not a CHE, but an actual portable heater)? What's the difference between the two that makes people go for oil?


----------



## Tony the tank (Jan 4, 2012)

I use an oil filled radiator heater... They put out good heat and are a lot safer I believe than the others...they usually have 3 settings..500 watts. 1000 watts and 1500 watts..
...[/b]


----------



## Zamric (Jan 4, 2012)

the mini has a turn nob from cooler to warmer. it stays at it warmest in WalkingRocks house and the heater itself gets to about 120 deg, thats the reason for the brick blockade. I can put a bowl of water on top of the heater to increase humidity, but its a minimal change.


----------



## Jacob (Jan 4, 2012)

You Can Even Find Pig Blankets At Your Local walmart!


----------



## chairman (Jan 5, 2012)

The big difference between a normal ceramic heater and an oil-filled style is that if you place a sheet of paper on both, only the sheet on the ceramic heater will catch on fire. NOT that I recommend storing paper on any heater, btw. An example of an oil heater told at walmart: http://www.walmart.com/ip/Optimus-Portable-Oil-Filled-Radiator-Heater/15162311

Any heater with a similar design will work.

Final note, I have found that 2 heaters of this style running at the 600 setting work better than 1 running at the 1500 setting.


----------



## Katherine (Jan 5, 2012)

I am in definite agreement of the oil heater posters. I LOVE mine and have been very impressed with them. You can get them at Walmart but I would recommend DeLonghi Dragon heaters by SAFEHEAT; they warm quickly and efficiently and they have a build in thermostat AND timer so you can set them to cycle on and off, or set them to maintain a certain temp and then they cycle on and off as needed. For me they've been incredible. I also find a red heatlamp can do an awesome (and very affordable) job heating an outdoor house in a pinch as well; just remember the overheat heat can be drying on the carapace longterm and that he will need enough space to move away from the basking spot should he chose. Goodluck getting settled in, your Sulcata is lucky to have you providing for him despite your recent change in situation- thanks for sticking by your shelled friend, seeing people that truly love their pets really warms my heat!!!


----------



## Tom (Jan 5, 2012)

One benefit of the oil heaters is "heat inertia". A regular space heater only produces heat when large amounts of electricity are being burned, and then they cool very quickly as soon as they shut off. They also get hot enough to burn, which was already mentioned. The oil heaters in contrast, use a lot less electricity (when on low, the way I use them) but even after they kick off, all that hot oil keeps on warming for a long time. Its like a heat reservoir. My buddy has one in a 3x3 cube. It just sits there unprotected, up against the wood, and the tortoises sometimes rest up against it too, all with no harm. (Note: I do not recommend this practice, I only point it out to demonstrate the safety factor)

Another note: I have not found the built in thermostats to be even remotely accurate or trustworthy. I use my own thermostats with them and this has worked perfectly for me for several years now. I also share Chairmans observation about two heater on low doing a better job than one on high. I have two redundant oil heaters set up in my reptile room. They are on different circuits in case a breaker were ever to trip, and they do a fine tandem job on those occasional below freezing nights.

Note about the ones Katherine mentioned: I tried those and they actually do work okay in a small room or shed type setting, but they cannot be used with a separate thermostat. The reason is that when the power is turned off, they reset themselves to the original factory setting. This can also happen during one of those brief power outages that occasionally happen. This happened one night and we came in to find a very cold room. I have analog dial timers in the same room on the same circuit, so I know the power was not off for more than a minute or two, but when it kicked back on the heater had reset itself and gave no heat for the rest of the night. With my separate thermostats and old style manual oil heaters, this failure cannot occur.

After all this, don't rule out the pig blanket/CHE combo. That works too, and I've used that set up with success for many years. I'm also experimenting with radiant heat panels this year and I really like the results so far. They heat just as well as a similar wattage CHE, but over a much greater area (good for adults of large species) and there is NO danger of burns or overly hot spots.


----------



## herbortamus (Jan 5, 2012)

Well, I would buy a little oil heater if I could find one. For right now, I hooked up Herbert's second CHE and bought a second(and different) remote thermostat for his house. And now it's not nearly as cold as it was a few nights ago - both thermometers read about 72 for the inside of his house. I still got cold feet, though, about leaving him outside so he's in my large bathtub right now snoozing with a ceramic space heater. I swear, if he'd approve I'd let him sleep in the bed with me 

By the way, someone mentioned that the CHEs could dry out or burn the top of his shell. For at least the last 6 years Herbert has had the same 150W CHE and I've never had a problem with it. He usually sleeps underneath it. I'm jealouse of it - I know he loves it more than me. That is why I decided to get him a second 150W CHE for when he moved outside. I don't expect to run them both all the time, usually just the one. But I want both on for extra cold nights. If I do have them both going, and the temp is not too hot, could it hurt him?


----------



## Tom (Jan 5, 2012)

herbortamus said:


> Well, I would buy a little oil heater if I could find one. For right now, I hooked up Herbert's second CHE and bought a second(and different) remote thermostat for his house. And now it's not nearly as cold as it was a few nights ago - both thermometers read about 72 for the inside of his house. I still got cold feet, though, about leaving him outside so he's in my large bathtub right now snoozing with a ceramic space heater. I swear, if he'd approve I'd let him sleep in the bed with me
> 
> By the way, someone mentioned that the CHEs could dry out or burn the top of his shell. For at least the last 6 years Herbert has had the same 150W CHE and I've never had a problem with it. He usually sleeps underneath it. I'm jealouse of it - I know he loves it more than me. That is why I decided to get him a second 150W CHE for when he moved outside. I don't expect to run them both all the time, usually just the one. But I want both on for extra cold nights. If I do have them both going, and the temp is not too hot, could it hurt him?



Yes it could hurt him. I think that is what happened to this one before I got her.
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/Thread-Open-Topped-Pyramided-Scute#axzz1iecYbUcu

As they get bigger, they get closer and closer to those overhead heating elements. Also the area of heat coming from them gets proportionally smaller as they grow. What I mean is that say your domed fixture produces a warm area of around 12". For a 10" tort, he can fit his whole head and body inside the warm area. When that same tort grows to 18" his head and rear will be outside the warm zone and because his head feels cold, he might stay in it too long, plus since he's grown so much, the top of his carapace might be 6" closer to the bulb now.

What I do is get a tortoise sized rock (same size as the biggest tortoise that will use the box) and let the rock cook under my heating element for around 2 hours. Then I temp gun the top of the rock and set a remote probe there too. I'll let the remote temp probe sit there for a while and check my temps. Then I just make corrections based on the temps. A 150 watt CHE is going to throw out A LOT of heat. Check the temps at tortoise shell height.


----------

