# How many females to males



## georgeandbessy (Jul 4, 2016)

I have a Hermann male who is 13 and I was just wondering how many female you can put to one male.


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## Tom (Jul 4, 2016)

georgeandbessy said:


> I have a Hermann male who is 13 and I was just wondering how many female you can put to one male.



Generally speaking 2 to 4 females to one male. You can put 10 females in there if the enclosure is large enough, but he is not likely to be able to service all of them and get good fertility.


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## georgeandbessy (Jul 4, 2016)

Tom said:


> Generally speaking 2 to 4 females to one male. You can put 10 females in there if the enclosure is large enough, but he is not likely to be able to service all of them and get good fertility.


Cheers for that. I read a book a few weeks ago that said you should have multiple male though I didn't think you were allowed two or more any advice.


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## ZEROPILOT (Jul 4, 2016)

I keep Redfoot tortoises.
After trial and error, I have have settled on one male to three females.
All of a similar size.


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## Tom (Jul 4, 2016)

georgeandbessy said:


> Cheers for that. I read a book a few weeks ago that said you should have multiple male though I didn't think you were allowed two or more any advice.



Sometimes, in large well designed enclosures people get away with multiple males in one enclosure. In something really large, like 50x100' and lots of plants and bushes, you could conceivably keep several adult males. and lots of females. However, people who attempt this must be prepared to separate out any individuals of any sex that become too aggressive with their enclosure mates. Sometimes it works and other times they just don't get along.


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## ZEROPILOT (Jul 4, 2016)

Tom said:


> Sometimes, in large well designed enclosures people get away with multiple males in one enclosure. In something really large, like 50x100' and lots of plants and bushes, you could conceivably keep several adult males. and lots of females. However, people who attempt this must be prepared to separate out any individuals of any sex that become too aggressive with their enclosure mates. Sometimes it works and other times they just don't get along.


Good point!
I didn't mention that while I was searching for a harmonious group, I had three pens set up and in use.


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## N2TORTS (Jul 4, 2016)

Tom said:


> Sometimes, in large well designed enclosures people get away with multiple males in one enclosure. In something really large, like 50x100' and lots of plants and bushes, you could conceivably keep several adult males. and lots of females. However, people who attempt this must be prepared to separate out any individuals of any sex that become too aggressive with their enclosure mates. Sometimes it works and other times they just don't get along.


Your right Tom.....at the Cove' ....On the Cherry side there is a 4.9 with only 2 sub adults (7").
I have ZERO problems ....


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## Pearly (Jul 4, 2016)

I still have only a couple of youngsters (yearlings) who so far get along great, but in their outdoor enclosure I'll be ready to separate them at any time, or.., once we know their genders for sure... maybe taking on couple more rescue RF females...


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## Tom (Jul 4, 2016)

N2TORTS said:


> Your right Tom.....at the Cove' ....On the Cherry side there is a 4.9 with only 2 sub adults (7").
> I have ZERO problems ....



OP is talking about hermanni. RFs usually get along in most situations, but two male hermanni are more likely to engage in combat I think. Wouldn't you agree?


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## georgeandbessy (Jul 4, 2016)

N2TORTS said:


> Your right Tom.....at the Cove' ....On the Cherry side there is a 4.9 with only 2 sub adults (7").
> I have ZERO problems ....


Sooooo confused


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## Yvonne G (Jul 4, 2016)

georgeandbessy said:


> Sooooo confused



Don't be. They're talking apples and oranges. RF tortoises get along much easier than Hermanni. Two male hermanni in the same habitat, unless it's quite big with lots of hiding places and sight barriers, would more than likely fight. Let's send this question to the guy who really knows his Hermanni business - @HermanniChris


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## HermanniChris (Jul 4, 2016)

With Hermann's, multiple males are imperative usually for long term success. You may have short term success with only one for several years but after a certain point in time, they tend to become bored and find the females nothing more than objects in the enclosure. This has been something that many serious keepers overseas have been trying to surface for some time. It's something I have noted over the course of two decades here. In nature, males are all over and benefit from combat and daily interaction with each other. Here at my facility, all Hermann's colonies have multiple males with no less than 2 being part of a group. They are allowed to fight it out, coexist and extra pens are always available if an aggressor is potentially going to cause injury or an issue. 

Personally, my favorite ratio, which yields the most production and enables all-natural behaviors is 3 males and 8 females. 

This "need for males" does not seem to apply so much to other Mediterranean tortoises such as T. graeca and T. marginata.


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## georgeandbessy (Jul 4, 2016)

HermanniChris said:


> With Hermann's, multiple males are imperative usually for long term success. You may have short term success with only one for several years but after a certain point in time, they tend to become bored and find the females nothing more than objects in the enclosure. This has been something that many serious keepers overseas have been trying to surface for some time. It's something I have noted over the course of two decades here. In nature, males are all over and benefit from combat and daily interaction with each other. Here at my facility, all Hermann's colonies have multiple males with no less than 2 being part of a group. They are allowed to fight it out, coexist and extra pens are always available if an aggressor is potentially going to cause injury or an issue.
> 
> Personally, my favorite ratio, which yields the most production and enables all-natural behaviors is 3 males and 8 females.
> 
> This "need for males" does not seem to apply so much to other Mediterranean tortoises such as T. graeca and T. marginata.


Cheers for all the help


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## N2TORTS (Jul 4, 2016)

Tom said:


> OP is talking about hermanni. RFs usually get along in most situations, but two male hermanni are more likely to engage in combat I think. Wouldn't you agree?


Yes Sir ...! 
Happy 4th ~


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## N2TORTS (Jul 4, 2016)

georgeandbessy said:


> Sooooo confused


I was too....sorry bout that' I thought you were talking RF....Tom and Yvonne as well as Chris are right!


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## N2TORTS (Jul 4, 2016)

Yvonne G said:


> Don't be. They're talking apples and oranges. RF tortoises get along much easier than Hermanni. Two male hermanni in the same habitat, unless it's quite big with lots of hiding places and sight barriers, would more than likely fight. Let's send this question to the guy who really knows his Hermanni business - @HermanniChris


Oppps My bad ...sorry Yvonne.....but apples and oranges are yummie!


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## Pearly (Jul 4, 2016)

Oops! Sorry for derailing your thread. I don't know why I thought we were taking about RF...


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## Tom (Jul 5, 2016)

HermanniChris said:


> With Hermann's, multiple males are imperative usually for long term success. You may have short term success with only one for several years but after a certain point in time, they tend to become bored and find the females nothing more than objects in the enclosure. This has been something that many serious keepers overseas have been trying to surface for some time. It's something I have noted over the course of two decades here. In nature, males are all over and benefit from combat and daily interaction with each other. Here at my facility, all Hermann's colonies have multiple males with no less than 2 being part of a group. They are allowed to fight it out, coexist and extra pens are always available if an aggressor is potentially going to cause injury or an issue.
> 
> Personally, my favorite ratio, which yields the most production and enables all-natural behaviors is 3 males and 8 females.
> 
> This "need for males" does not seem to apply so much to other Mediterranean tortoises such as T. graeca and T. marginata.



Chris, this kind of info is PRICELESS. We could all spend 20 years trying to mimic what you have done (impossible, I know…) and we _might_ learn the same things you have learned, but man, the insight in this post is fantastic! Thank you so much for sharing this.


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## HermanniChris (Jul 5, 2016)

Tom said:


> Chris, this kind of info is PRICELESS. We could all spend 20 years trying to mimic what you have done (impossible, I know…) and we _might_ learn the same things you have learned, but man, the insight in this post is fantastic! Thank you so much for sharing this.


Thanks Tom!


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