# Unexpected Herman eggs!



## Georgina (Mar 25, 2017)

Ive had my baby hermans for about 4 years. The girls i think are 3 or 3 1/2. Last week we found an egg, then another and another tonight. Ive figured out which one it is but its totally unexpected. I had no incubator set up or anything and although i thought i knew all about breeding i panicked! After about 3-4 days we realised the first wasnt fertile so got rid, the second one got smashed before we had chance to do anything (i have 5 so easily done). She hasnt dug and layed them they are on the top and just one at a time so this is what got me thinkin they arnt fertile. I was meant to measure her tonight but totally forgot.

Weve just found the 3rd tonight and our incubator is almost set up so ive put it in there, decided to so even if it isnt fertile, temps and humidity should be right for when they are. 

My question is- 
how do i know when they are fertile? 
Whats the best thing to keep the eggs in whilst in the incubator? 
We noticed this one has what we thought was blood on it, are we safe to still bath her whilst shes laying? 

And im currently in the middle of making them a new table, how deep should i make it for when they do need to bury? And whats the best thing to keep them on to help them? I currently have them on chippings but want to change this. 

Sorry for all the questions


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## GBtortoises (Mar 26, 2017)

Congratulations!
The first thing that would recommend is to treat all eggs as if they are fertile. If an egg is fertile it will begin to "chalk", in other words turn from the light, almost translucent color that they were when first laid to a more flat, solid white color, much like that of a piece of chalk. Even when this happens it is not always a guarantee that they're fertile, but a good sign. Some eggs will start out developing a wide band of the chalk white around the middle. Others will turn more uniformly. This will usually take place within the first 2-5 days.
Different people use different methods of incubation medium and containers. I have tried several different mediums to place eggs on over the years. Many with some problems. I have, for over a decade now, used perlite (found in garden centers) as a medium. It allows the egg to remain stable and not move should the container be moved or incubator accidently bumped. It also provides good air circulation around the egg because it is a porous, non-compacting material. It should be used dry and the humidity provided from elsewhere within the incubator in the form of a separate water container with a sponge floating in it to act as a wick. This allows moisture to be drawn out of the water container and in the atmosphere within the incubator. By doing this the eggs do not sit on a wet medium where mold and bacteria can flourish. I use small plastic containers to keep eggs from different clutches separate. Anything will do as long as the sides are high enough. Deli containers, butter tubs and other similar containers work well. The lids are not needed, just the containers.
The blood on the outside of the egg is due to your tortoise passing a very large object through a much smaller hole. From your description it sounds like your females are still quite small. Females should not be disturbed during egg laying for any reason other than emergencies. Actual egg laying, once it takes place, usually begins and ends within a few hours. So there should be no concern after she is done laying the eggs.
The issue of laying the eggs on top of the substrate could be one (or more) of three reasons: 1) the enclosure depth and/or substrate material may not be suitable for her to nest. 2) If this is her first time they may very likely be unfertile. Her body may have produced eggs based on an environmental trigger (heat and light conditions). 3) If she is housed communally with other tortoises her nesting efforts may have been disrupted several time by her cage mates and the eggs reached a point of development that she had to "unload" them. Young, first time females will often not nest either.

Have you actually seen males copulating with the females? Not just mounting them and going through the motions, but actual copulation? Many people often mistake males mounting females as breeding. But in reality it is more often not the case. Males will go through the courting motion and mount females relentlessly if given the opportunity. Successful mating only takes place when the female is ready and receptive. With Testudo species their mating period, as with all other aspects of their routine and activity are determined by seasonal conditions whether natural or artificially manipulated.


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## GBtortoises (Mar 26, 2017)

Generally speaking most Hermann's tortoise dig nests anywhere from 4-7" deep. But there are usually a lot of variables involved such as size of the tortoise, soil composition and conditions (moisture level) and location of the nest. A separate nesting container can be sunk into an existing substrate. The nesting material should be a semi moist soil that has some compaction capability. The tortoise will dig a flask shaped nest that needs to have some stability from caving in while she is digging it out and depositing her eggs. Organic gardening soils work well for this.


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