# Glock Perfection



## Tom

Disclaimer: If you don't like guns, you may want to just skip ahead to some other topic or thread. If you want to debate the merits, or lack there of, of guns, please start an off topic debatable thread and I'll happily join you there.

For everyone else:
I've been shooting all the different Glocks since the mid-90's. I started using them during my second pistol class and have continued through dozens of classes to this day. They were recommended by almost everyone and I've always found them to be a well made, very reliable, simple to use and clean handgun. I love them. My only problem is trying to choose which model to use on any given day. 26 or 27 for hot weather carry. 21 for falling steel plates on the range. 19 or 23 for cooler weather carry. Which one for a class? Decisions decisions...

I always thought the above slogan was kind of catchy. Seemed like a good marketing strategy to me. Well, on Super Bowl Sunday I took the Glock Armorers Class with my regular instructors. NOW I really understand the slogan. NOW I understand fully why so many people like and recommend the Glock. It truly is handgun perfection personified. Every one of the 35 parts makes sense. Nothing unnecessary. Everything fits and comes together perfectly. All of the metal is treated perfectly for its given function. The different proprietary rifling is far superior to everything else out there. Everything is simple and easy to understand. Most of the parts are interchangeable between models. Not that you need parts very often. They also come with a lifetime guarantee. My instructor has been shooting them since they came out. He has several that he uses as loners for the classes. He has two that broke after 250,000+ rounds through them. Glock simply replaced the broken parts with no questions asked.

The whole thing and every single one of the 35 parts can be disassembled and reassembled in about three minutes with one simple punch tool. Ever try that with an AR or 1911? I tell you the thing is PURE GENIUS in every way.

I learned sooo much about these guns. Details I had no idea about. For example: Do you know why the Glock isn't used more by the military? Its because there is a clause in each military contract that requires the parent company to release all of its proprietary secrets, so that anyone can copy and reproduce the gun after three years. Glock said "No way". Beretta said "okay." Ever notice how many AR and 1911 companies there are out there.

Anyhow, it was already my favorite pistol and has been for many years, but now I have a whole new appreciation for HOW and WHY it is such a good gun. Everything else pales in comparison. I can't see how anyone would buy anything else after shooting one and taking this armory course. I've taken lots of armorers courses over the years, but none of them had this effect on me. Your questions and discussion are welcome.


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## jackrat

Great post Tom.Glocks really are perfection in a handgun.I have owned and still own more than a few.But sadly,I'm a bit of a Luddite.I fell in love with the 1911 early in life and it still has my heart.I just can't help it.lol


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## Tom

The 1911 STILL has the best trigger ever made on a handgun. Great gun. Its my second favorite.


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## Laura

did I miss the slogan?


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## Tom

Laura said:


> did I miss the slogan?



Its the thread title. "Glock Perfection".


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## jeffbens0n

I just got into handguns last year as my dad had been in the business most of my life. After a lot of research I decided I definitely wanted a Glock, and the the first gun I got was a Glock 19. Not for concealed carry or anything just for pleasure. I love it but don't have enough time so shoot as much as i'd like. I just liked everything I read about Glocks, reliable, and simple.


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## Cameron

Great post, Tom. I don't have a Glock, but I have shot one. It was the full size .45 (not sure of the model #). I didn't care for it. It didn't fit my hand well and shot just O.K. It was nothing special in my opinion. I have been told however, to try the full size .40 model and I will change my mind. I have yet to do so, but would really love to. Until I do, my carry choice is my Springfield XD 40. My wife bought it for me when I came home from Iraq the first time, so I guess it's a little sentimental to me in that way. I would probably carry my FNP-45 if I wasn't so familiar and attached to my XD. After I put another thousand rounds or so through my FN I may end up using that for carry...

On a side note, it's always nice to hear from and talk to other firearm enthusiasts. I use that term loosely. It could very well be firearm nut in my case. Might need to start some new threads on here about my other hobby/obsession....


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## N2TORTS

yes the glock is super fine ..... and another " easy to strip in the field " is the SW "Sigma" 40 Cal. The 40 has more stopping power than the 9mm.... ( if needed ) ...

JD~


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## Tom

Cameron, there's just one thing I can't get past on the XD. The trigger reset is way too long and cumbersome. Great gun otherwise.

JD, I always thought so too (about stopping power), and 15-20 years ago there was no argument. Recently though, ammo technology has advanced to the point where the differences between 9, .40, .45, and even .223 are minimal. They are all going to take 5-7 rounds on "average" to put a bad guy down.


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## montana

They work ok .. Are accurate [as can be expected from a gun with rudimentary sights]..

For me and I have a few including two Glocks .. They don`t have the feel or the machined construction of the guns I really like ..

I do like the fact it dosn`t have a bunch of redundant safeties for the lawyers .[guns arn`t supposed to be safe ] ..

I believe that the best gun for a gun fight is the gun you have with you [Not the lazer sighted 44 desert eagle left back in the dresser drawer].

My choice is a S.W. bodyguard ...


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## B K

I would have to go with the Springfield XD 45 but i also like the Glock








Tom what type of pistol class are you taking


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## Laura

Never had the pleasure to shoot one.. we use revolvers at work. .22 rifle and Tranq gun.. 
For home protection... give me a shotgun.. Big, easy to use, dont have to aim, and just the sound of it
will make someone stop.


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## Tom

B K said:


> Tom what type of pistol class are you taking



All of them. Shotgun and carbine too. General, advanced, night, concealed carry, F.A.T.S., live fire entry, advanced life fire entry, CCW, armorers, force on force with sims...

Here's my "school". Been going there since '98:
http://www.ftatv.com/


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## B K

Laura said:


> Never had the pleasure to shoot one.. we use revolvers at work. .22 rifle and Tranq gun..
> For home protection... give me a shotgun.. Big, easy to use, dont have to aim, and just the sound of it
> will make someone stop.



Stoeger Coach gun 12ga 20" the 45 is for clean up
Rem 7mm ultra mag for the ones that try to get away.
(Don't run you will just die tired)


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## Smithen

Goog post, personally I have only owned one handgun and its a Burgo .22 Revolver. Its so small I'm almost embarrassed to bring it out. I really don't know much about it and can't find any information about it. I have been thinking about getting a Glock when I get old enough lol.

Tyler


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## Tom

Smithen said:


> Goog post, personally I have only owned one handgun and its a Burgo .22 Revolver. Its so small I'm almost embarrassed to bring it out. I really don't know much about it and can't find any information about it. I have been thinking about getting a Glock when I get old enough lol.
> 
> Tyler



Tyler, remember these words when you get "old enough":

Knowledge is more important than the tool. Spend your money on proper instruction with a good school, not gadgets, lazers, and lots of new fangled guns that that you won't know how to use.


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## B K

Smithen said:


> Goog post, personally I have only owned one handgun and its a Burgo .22 Revolver. Its so small I'm almost embarrassed to bring it out. I really don't know much about it and can't find any information about it. I have been thinking about getting a Glock when I get old enough lol.
> 
> Tyler



I believe they where made in Germany nice guns do you have the holster with it.


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## Smithen

Tom said:


> Smithen said:
> 
> 
> 
> Goog post, personally I have only owned one handgun and its a Burgo .22 Revolver. Its so small I'm almost embarrassed to bring it out. I really don't know much about it and can't find any information about it. I have been thinking about getting a Glock when I get old enough lol.
> 
> Tyler
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tyler, remember these words when you get "old enough":
> 
> Knowledge is more important than the tool. Spend your money on proper instruction with a good school, not gadgets, lazers, and lots of new fangled guns that that you won't know how to use.
Click to expand...


Ya I have never been a big fan of the lazers and stuff. I have always like to see how they work and the knowledge of the guns is what I really like. I have been more into black powder guns at the moment. I built a .50 Kentucky Longrifle from a kit and love it. I was thinking about building an old Pepperbox next.



B K said:


> Smithen said:
> 
> 
> 
> Goog post, personally I have only owned one handgun and its a Burgo .22 Revolver. Its so small I'm almost embarrassed to bring it out. I really don't know much about it and can't find any information about it. I have been thinking about getting a Glock when I get old enough lol.
> 
> Tyler
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I believe they where made in Germany nice guns do you have the holster with it.
Click to expand...


Sadly I do not, it was given to me by my grandfather a few years ago. I have only ever shot it once. It wasn't a bad little gun. I keep it locked away for now. I'm not able to get it out and shoot it much.

Tyler


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## -ryan-

Glocks are dependable. Our M&P's have been outselling our glocks like crazy recently, and the sigs are always a stronger seller, but firearm selection is a very personal matter, and it always goes in waves. We were selling glocks steadily last month, but this week the M&P's are literally not even making it to the display cabinets. Next week it might be something else.

9mm is a nice round right now even just for ammo prices. $210 for 1,000 rounds of AE is not bad compared to almost double for .45. .40 is also pretty cheap though at $220-230 or so for 1,000 rounds of Fed. Of course I get it all for even cheaper  I've talked to Tom enough for him to know that I'm partial to Sig Sauer, and sales show that a lot of other people feel the same way, but I also have my eye on a two tone 17. I think that will have to wait though, because I'm more interested in a secondhand 9mm 1911 that I think I'll have to take home with me.

Guns are always a fun discussion


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## Balboa

I've shot a few glocks, they never seemed to fit my hand right, and always felt sloppy to me. I had a sig chambered for their .357 (bottle-necked .40) which felt alot better to me and was fun to shoot, but I wound up letting that one go.

The gun I fell in love with and have never been able to part with was the CZ-75. From day one it just felt right. My second favorite is the browning hi-power (which the grip-shape of the CZ is a copy of).

Of course it is all about feel, and we all have different hands, tough to make a one size fits all.


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## exoticsdr

Balboa...nice to see you back.

Tom, Great thread....have owned and still do own a bunch of toys....my favorites are still the 1911's, if you ever get to my part of Texas, let me know and we will go and play on my firing range.


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## Tom

exoticsdr said:


> Balboa...nice to see you back.
> 
> Tom, Great thread....have owned and still do own a bunch of toys....my favorites are still the 1911's, if you ever get to my part of Texas, let me know and we will go and play on my firing range.



DEAL!


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## Az tortoise compound

For all:




For the glock owners




I'll keep it old school. No tupperware for me.


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## montana

I have run big game hound for decades .. 

Its big rough country and when you leave the horse a pistol is the weapon of choice 

I have found that NO pistol is worth a dam .. 

I have seen 44 mags ball up time after time on a bears skull doing no damage ..

I once shot a lion with a 38 special ..Shot up all my shells reloaded shot the rest and had to go home and get a real gun ...

Recently I butchered two pigs I used my 44-40 hot hand loads .. Six shots point blank To one pig 0 penetration .Tried my wife's 357 same thing the old 86 in 45-70 was resorted to ..

I did have a contender that packed the punch but there was no good way to carry it so it may as well of had a stock ..

Auto pistols [I have had them all ] They just arn`t packing the gear .. 

I would suggest a shotgun [One to the legs one point blank to the face ] or a .308 min battle rifle..


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## Tom

My instructor frequently ask the question, "Do you know what a pistol is for?" "Its to fight your way to your shotgun!"


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## CGKeith

I've been a Glock fan and owner for quite a few years. I have also owned an XD45 Compact.

I did like the grip of the XD a bit better but not the trigger.

I think the Glock 19 is about the best all around model. Great balance, mid sized, and ALWAYS works.

I picked up something else last year, for concealed carry, and really like it a lot. It's the Taurus 709 Slim. 

Very compact single stack and very Glock like trigger and really easy to carry. I wish Glock would make a slim single stack version like this.

Got rid of my 26 and my Keltec PF9 since I got the 709.

And for shotguns, Mossberg 500 was the first gun I purchased for myself (back in 1984) and still have it very handy in the house. Another one that always works.


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## Nay

Can't contribute much to the conversation, I shoot a bow. But I will say, reading men(no offense if I missed a woman's post???) talking about their guns, (or toys) turns me right on!!!
Nay

Oops. Laura, just saw yours!! Sorry..Still holds true for me!


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## exoticsdr

Nay said:


> Can't contribute much to the conversation, I shoot a bow. But I will say, reading men(no offense if I missed a woman's post???) talking about their guns, (or toys) turns me right on!!!
> Nay
> 
> Oops. Laura, just saw yours!! Sorry..Still holds true for me!



You're my new favorite poster!! hahahaha


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## DeanS

I'm in Training right now to become an Animal Control Officer...in a month we go for POST 832...and firearms the following week. I owned a Glock 19, a Mossburg Riot shotgun and an Uzi...all three were stolen from my house in '93 and I thought what if I walked in and got shot by my own gun...anyway, we've already made the decision to purchase another Glock as soon as I have my card! More to follow...


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## B K

my next gun is a 50 bmg


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## spikethebest

B K said:


> my next gun is a 50 bmg



my next gun is my Crew Chief and his 50 cal on board my Blackhawk Helicopter.... 


if anyone thinks I am joking at all... i am not!


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## CGKeith

spikethebest said:


> B K said:
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> 
> my next gun is a 50 bmg
> 
> 
> 
> 
> my next gun is my Crew Chief and his 50 cal on board my Blackhawk Helicopter....
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> if anyone thinks I am joking at all... i am not!
Click to expand...


OH, your talking M2. The real 50 cal  Been a few years since I got to shoot one of those. Of course I had to carry it (well part of it) also.


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## montana

338 Lapua would be my choice .. 

I know the 416 has found some favor but there is a point where weight and perceived recoil take a tole ...

Also expense of creating rounds becomes prohibitive with no Inexpensive 416 bullets to be had ..

Shooting up to a mile you have to be cool and practice a lot ..


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## Smithen

I dont know, I still like my 50 cal  I'm a big fan of black powder rifles. Love to build them and make all the ammo and everything 

Tyler


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## B K

CGKeith said:


> spikethebest said:
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> B K said:
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> my next gun is a 50 bmg
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> 
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> my next gun is my Crew Chief and his 50 cal on board my Blackhawk Helicopter....
> 
> 
> if anyone thinks I am joking at all... i am not!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> OH, your talking M2. The real 50 cal  Been a few years since I got to shoot one of those. Of course I had to carry it (well part of it) also.
Click to expand...


I packed a 60 it was a pain to jump with.


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## spikethebest

B K said:


> CGKeith said:
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> spikethebest said:
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> B K said:
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> my next gun is a 50 bmg
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> my next gun is my Crew Chief and his 50 cal on board my Blackhawk Helicopter....
> 
> 
> if anyone thinks I am joking at all... i am not!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> OH, your talking M2. The real 50 cal  Been a few years since I got to shoot one of those. Of course I had to carry it (well part of it) also.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I packed a 60 it was a pain to jump with.
Click to expand...


why would you ever want to jump out of a perfectly good airplane?  jk!


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## B K

spikethebest said:


> B K said:
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> CGKeith said:
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> spikethebest said:
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> B K said:
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> my next gun is a 50 bmg
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> my next gun is my Crew Chief and his 50 cal on board my Blackhawk Helicopter....
> 
> 
> if anyone thinks I am joking at all... i am not!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> OH, your talking M2. The real 50 cal  Been a few years since I got to shoot one of those. Of course I had to carry it (well part of it) also.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I packed a 60 it was a pain to jump with.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> why would you ever want to jump out of a perfectly good airplane?  jk!
Click to expand...


Jumped out of the Blackhawk to but back then we called them crashhawks.



B K said:


> spikethebest said:
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> B K said:
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> CGKeith said:
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> spikethebest said:
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> my next gun is my Crew Chief and his 50 cal on board my Blackhawk Helicopter....
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> if anyone thinks I am joking at all... i am not!
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> OH, your talking M2. The real 50 cal  Been a few years since I got to shoot one of those. Of course I had to carry it (well part of it) also.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
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> I packed a 60 it was a pain to jump with.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> why would you ever want to jump out of a perfectly good airplane?  jk!
> 
> Click to expand...
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> Jumped out of the Blackhawk to but back then we called them crashhawks.
Click to expand...


Man now I feel old


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## CtTortoiseMom

Nay said:


> Can't contribute much to the conversation, I shoot a bow. But I will say, reading men(no offense if I missed a woman's post???) talking about their guns, (or toys) turns me right on!!!
> Nay
> 
> Oops. Laura, just saw yours!! Sorry..Still holds true for me!



I know I asked my Hubby who is a gun owner/enthusiest about glocks because of this thread and he started talking about how he prefers a sig saur (sp?) and why. I had to jump him! I attribute it to our instincts as women to feel protected. Sorry feminists, I want a big strong man to protect me.


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## CGKeith

Erin, my wife is the same way, but....she has her own .357 that she carries. 

A friend of ours, who is a Police Officer asked her why she carried such a powerful gun. She responded "It makes me feel pretty." He laughed and didn't ask any more questions.


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## moswen

i'm pretty late to this post, but i'll put my opinion up anyways lol! 

i don't have very much knowledge or experience with hand guns, my forearms and wrists are pretty girly.... my hand almost always tilts back when i shoot and that makes me nervous. in my head i somehow feel as though i'll end up shooting someone who, as a freak of nature, sprouted wings and decided to fly overhead while i was shooting my gun. i know, that's a pretty silly and obviously impossible fear, but whatever, that's just me lol. mostly i'm just a hunter, gimme a shotgun or a rifle and let's get out into nature. i'm ashamed to admit in this company, that i only own one shotgun and one rifle...! my dad's a hunter as well, obviously, but he's really into guns in a way that sounds like "one day, i'll own every gun on the market." you can't imagine how many safes he has in his shop. he actually has two safes at my grandparent's house even, just incase he decides to go hunting while he's up in kansas, but didn't come prepared. a man's got to have a selection, doesn't he? currently he's working on building a rifle, because he met a guy that goes to long range tournaments and that guy builds rifles, so now my dad has to own a gun that he's built.... lol. 

anyways, i'm excited to hear that there are still some people in the world who don't think guns are the root of all evil! i thought i was a dying breed. and to think, you all like tortoises too! what an exciting discovery haha! tom, i suspect that i should expect no less from you, you definately seem like the type of guy to have this type of hobby too!


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## montana

Try a F.N. 5.7x28

Beware the man with one gun ....


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## CtTortoiseMom

CGKeith said:


> Erin, my wife is the same way, but....she has her own .357 that she carries.
> 
> A friend of ours, who is a Police Officer asked her why she carried such a powerful gun. She responded "It makes me feel pretty." He laughed and didn't ask any more questions.



Your wife sounds awesome!! I really want a taser but they are illegal to have unless you are a trooper here. I still want one because I feel like the person who mistakenly tried to attack me and got a taser in the eye won't call the police on me.


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## montana

The .357 loaded with 38 specials will recoil less than a 38 special .


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## Tom

CtTortoiseMom said:


> I really want a taser but they are illegal to have unless you are a trooper here. I still want one because I feel like the person who mistakenly tried to attack me and got a taser in the eye won't call the police on me.



Would you rather be tried by 12 or carried by 6?

"Legal or illegal" separated from "right or wrong" a long time ago...

What kind of society would forbid a woman to protect herself from death or harm with non-lethal force?


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## montana

Time to dump the tea !!!

Southern California Has been invaded by Illegal Mexican drug cartels with illegal assault rifles and machine guns .. 

The government is powerless to stop them ...

But a little old lady with a taser ...

The cops will kick down her door and murder her in her sleep ...


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## Cameron

montana said:


> Time to dump the tea !!!





It's way past time!


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## montana

Not long ago the French had a government that was almost as incompetent, corrupt and arrogant as the one we have here today ... 

They tried everything but none of the government paid any attention..

What did get there attention was when they led them and there families up to the guillotine and cut there crooked arrogant heads off ....


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## Robert

As my wife mentioned, I do prefer the Sig over the Glock.

I like everything about the Glock except, for some reason, I just can't get over double action only. I have no idea why. For a semi automatic, I like a single action double action. 

As for the sig, overall a great, well made gun. Can't speak highly enough about them. In this part of the country they are pretty standard for all law enforcement. The only guys in enforcement that I know who don't carry Sigs carry Glocks, but it seems the Sigs outweigh the Glocks pretty heavily. I'm sure lots of this has to do with purchase contracts, etc, but it certainly points to both being reliable. 

Someone mentioned the S and W sigma. For me, this gun was a bust. Looking back, I don't even know why I bought it. Either way, it had to be replaced in under 150 rounds, as did it's replacement. Faulty firing pin on both. This did not sit well with me. When I replaced the second one, the firearms dealer stated that he would no longer be carrying the Sigma because I was one of many whom had returned them. I really like and respect S and W, but it seemed like the Sigma was an attempt to jump on the "Glock Band Wagon". If you want to buy a Glock, buy a Glock, not a Glock copy. I'm actually glad to hear that others have liked the Sigma, because I hope this means they improved their original design. 

For carry I prefer my Chief's Special snub nosed, airweight, hammerless, 38 special by Smith Wesson. Great little gun. Super comfortable to carry and packs a punch. It's hard to argue with the reliability of a revolver. No safeties to worry about. No need to chamber a round. Just point and shoot. 

I've been considering getting The Taurus Judge for our bedroom safe. The Taurus grip is a bit bulky for me, but for a "grab the Taurus while I run for the shotgun" type of gun I don't mind. The ability to hold a .45 round in addition to a 410 shotgun slug is just a cool concept. Seems like a fun one to add to the pile. 

I love pistols, but I must say my favorite gun is still my Ruger 10/22. In my opinion it is just a perfect gun.


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## CGKeith

Seems odd that you like your revolver for the same reasons that you say you don't like the Glock. 

Double action only trigger. The Glock doesn't have a safety to worry about either.

Just messin' with you. I do really like Sigs also, just not the price of most of them.

I also feel that the Glock trigger is closer to a single action than a DAO, that is why I like it.

I don't really care for a true DOA trigger, which is what you hammerless revolver is.


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## Robert

CGKeith said:


> Seems odd that you like your revolver for the same reasons that you say you don't like the Glock.



Very true. I should have clarified a bit more. I use them for two different purposes. For concealed carry I like the revolver which is of course double action only. For indoor/outdoor range pistol firing, tactical training, and other various hobby activities I prefer a semi auto single action double action with a hammer. (The revolver is really just no fun to shoot for extended periods of time!)

I just don't see a situation where I would comfortably use a semi auto pistol for concealed carry. Mainly because I have never found a holster or means to carry which I felt truly comfortable with. (That could certainly be it's own topic.). Any time I've ever carried a semi auto, I just didn't feel comfortable. I can carry the revolver in multiple different ways, from jeans to a business suit and feel totally comfortable. 

As for the Glock feeling like a single action, I will say that the Glock trigger is much nicer than the original Sigma trigger. (Not sure if S and W has changed this.)


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## Tom

Like most who carry, I have a box of holsters that didn't quite work out. I finally found a nice leather IWB that is a decent compromise of all the factors. In hot weather (shorts and a T-shirt) I comfortably carry either a 26 or 27. In colder weather (shorts and a sweatshirt or jacket) I carry a 19 or 23. Nobody can tell if I'm carrying or not, even if I ask them.

I much prefer 16 chances (plus a real quick reload of 17) to solve a life threatening problem to six. That's 15+1 in the G19 plus I carry the G17 mags for a spare. Of course the spare mag sits right next to my Surefire on the off side.

Rob, you're clearly a grown-up and I mean no disrespect, but I think its a mistake to shoot one at the range and carry an entirely different type out in the world. I hope that comes across in the friendly, respectful way that I meant it.


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## montana

Planning on missing a lot ???


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## CGKeith

No, I would say he's planning on being prepared.

Hope for the best but plan for the worst.

Or pray for peace but train for war.

Same thing.


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## Tom

montana said:


> Planning on missing a lot ???



Know anyone that kills hostile human beings for a living? I do. Lots of them. Anyone will tell you that regardless of caliber (.45, .40, 9mm, and even .223), it generally takes 5-7 rounds to put a bad guy down and end the fight. .38 would likely take more. Sure one round of .22 could physically do it, but likewise 14 rounds of .40 AND 33 rounds of .223 MIGHT not be enough. I have the actual FBI case file on that one. Pictures and all. Happened in PA. Kid was 18 and NOT under the influence of anything but adrenaline and hatred of cops. After putting all those rounds in him they jumped him and had to fight him to the ground to get the cuffs on him while he was trying to reload his one mag.

So, in my mind I'd have to be pretty lucky, an excellent shot under extreme stress, AND only be assaulted by one bad guy in light clothing for a .38 with 5 or 6 shots to be an effective means of self defense. Since criminal scumbags often travel in pairs or groups, 5 or 6 shots with a slow reload, just isn't enough to make me feel adequately prepared to defend my loved ones.

For the record, I hope such a thing NEVER happens, but if it ever did, the bad guy will lose.

... and no, I don't plan on missing, at all.


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## montana

I agree they shoot **** poor little rounds [all of them ] ... 

I would guess a 41 mag would be more effective .... 

But whats enough ??? One extra clip three extra clips ?? 

I have carried almost every day for thirty years and I know where you are at ...

Some day you will leave one mag home then later another soon you will be packing a seecamp ..

Like I have said before the best gun in a gun fight is the one you have with you ... 

The best gun for a war [what you are preparing for ] is a 308 battle rifle ... 

PS The glock made in the 80s are starting to fail because they are made from plastic while a good 1911 is just getting broken in ...

All in all its what works for you this is just a discussion ..


----------



## ALDABRAMAN

*I have carried a gun for over 25 years due to my line of work. I like Glocks, however I carried a S&W as my main duty weapon. Just preference, size and weight. I have used many hand guns for different functions and operations. Since my retirement, I have a S&W 2" scandium 44 special. Unless you need a gun for tactics or combat, I think the simpler the better.





*


----------



## montana

Nice !!! 
I have an old bodyguard .


----------



## Tom

montana said:


> I agree they shoot **** poor little rounds [all of them ] ...
> 
> I would guess a 41 mag would be more effective ....
> 
> But whats enough ??? One extra clip three extra clips ??
> 
> I have carried almost every day for thirty years and I know where you are at ...
> 
> Some day you will leave one mag home then later another soon you will be packing a seecamp ..
> 
> Like I have said before the best gun in a gun fight is the one you have with you ...
> 
> The best gun for a war [what you are preparing for ] is a 308 battle rifle ...
> 
> PS The glock made in the 80s are starting to fail because they are made from plastic while a good 1911 is just getting broken in ...
> 
> All in all its what works for you this is just a discussion ..



Yes it is just a discussion, and an enjoyable one at that. I love the 1911. STILL the best trigger ever put on a handgun, anywhere, anytime. HOWEVER, its got a lot of moving parts and a lot of potential for failure. The 1911 has over 130 parts. The Glock has 35. As someone who shoots with guys who shoot tens of thousands of rounds through both Glocks and 1911's, I can tell you honestly that 1911's breakdown and need replacement parts FAR more often than Glocks. My instructor has a bunch of 1st generation Glocks from the mid 80's that went from Duty guns, to range guns, to student loner guns. Several of them have OVER 250,000 rounds through them. Only the occasional extractor or return spring has ever been replaced. One day one of them started shooting a foot to the left. Still functioning fine. Close examination revealed a crack in the slide. He took it to Glock and was razzing them for a broken slide with ONLY a quarter of a million rounds through it. They replaced it free of charge, no questions asked. Mind you this is the old style, single pin, straight grip original design. The rough draft, if you will. The newer generation Glocks are improved upon and even MORE durable.

Now honestly Montana, can you tell me that you know of even one 1911 that has or will last for 250,000 rounds without multiple replacements of nearly every part on the gun. Someone who calls in to question the durability or reliability of the Glock is someone who doesn't know the Glock very well.

As far as all these other brands and types go, here's my opinion: There are lots of good guns out there. None of them come close to the Glock as far as features, function and reliability for a practical defensive pistol. All you have to do is take ONE single defensive pistol class with any decent instructor anywhere in the country, and you'll understand why. When you show up for the very first day of an entry level defensive pistol class, you'll see a whole host of guns up and down the line and each person will have darn good reasons why they chose that particular gun. By the end of the first day most of the students are asking to borrow a Glock to finish out the rest of the class. When you show up for your second class a few weeks later, you MIGHT see a couple of 1911's in the hands of long time shooters in their 50's or older (my boss was one of those), but every other gun will be a Glock. As you move along with your defensive pistol education almost everyone eventually converts to the Glock. My boss was one of these too. He accidentally missed thumbing off the safety on a draw from concealment and his trusty 1911 wouldn't go boom. He reholstered, walked straight to his car, and swapped his 1911 for his Glock. He still loves his 1911s, but he TRUSTS his Glocks.


----------



## montana

I have two Glocks ...

I should get them out and shoot them !!


----------



## Tom

montana said:


> I have two Glocks ...
> 
> I should get them out and shoot them !!




Haha. Me too!


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## ALDABRAMAN

*I went back to a revolver, no jams and lack of moving parts with no springs. I feel more comfortable, being retired, with a revolver. On the job, depending on the assignment or operation, I would prefer something else for sure, lots of fire power, however different world and need. I know alot of regular guys on the job carry a auto as primary and revolver as back up. Jams are possible. I once got my auto so full of mud tracking a fellow in the swamp, I am sure it would not fire. I know my revolver in my vest for sure would. I like Glock, they are proven and most SWAT members love them for the compounds and reliability. My issue is my hands are so big, I need a large frame handgun to fit good and right, LOL. Good thread Tom.*


----------



## Tom

Thanks Greg. Have you ever tried the Glock 21? A common complaint among .45 lovers of other brands is that its a bit too big and bulky in their hands. I shot one for a long time. I started with the G17 and then decided that 9mm was too weak. I went to the G21 and shot the heck out of that one for several years. As I got better, and the drills got faster and harder, I found the .45 to be just a bit too slow of a recoiler. My reflexes and trigger finger were outpacing the recoil impulse of the .45 on shots 4,5 and 6 for certain drills. I compromised on the G23. Small and concealable, yet I could get a full grip on it. It has nearly the power of .45, with a faster recoil impulse than even 9mm. The .40 also shoots flat out to about 115 yards. Not really ever useful in a pistol, but kind of neat. Now, with improvements in modern bullet technology, I'm starting to gravitate back toward the 9mm because I'm faster and more accurate with it. And I can carry more chances to stop the bad guy with it. ... anyhow, that's a whole 'nother story...

The Glock 21 in .45 might be a good fit for you.


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## Cameron

Tom said:


> ...out to about 115 yards. Not really ever useful in a pistol, but kind of neat.



Oh, I don't know about that...depends on who you talk to! 

I shoot competition silhouettes with a .44 mag revolver. 50 yards up to 200 yards. Long range is definitely usefull in a pistol for me! (sure wouldn't use a glock for this though!) 

Ruger SBH .44 mag. 10.5" barrel....


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## Tom

Red Earth Exotics said:


> (sure wouldn't use a glock for this though!)



Me neither!

200 yards? That's what my .308 is for. Well, the bullet is just stabilizing at 200. I can reliably hit out to 725 with it.


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## Cameron

Tom said:


> Red Earth Exotics said:
> 
> 
> 
> (sure wouldn't use a glock for this though!)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Me neither!
> 
> 200 yards? That's what my .308 is for. Well, the bullet is just stabilizing at 200. I can reliably hit out to 725 with it.
Click to expand...


Yeah, but it's more fun and challenging with an iron sight revolver! You should check out a local silhouette match sometime. Lots of fun and silhouette shooters are some of the nicest ones around!


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## Tom

Red Earth Exotics said:


> Tom said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Red Earth Exotics said:
> 
> 
> 
> (sure wouldn't use a glock for this though!)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Me neither!
> 
> 200 yards? That's what my .308 is for. Well, the bullet is just stabilizing at 200. I can reliably hit out to 725 with it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah, but it's more fun and challenging with an iron sight revolver! You should check out a local silhouette match sometime. Lots of fun and silhouette shooters are some of the nicest ones around!
Click to expand...


What?! When? I'm too busy taking care of hordes of reptiles nowadays...


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## Cameron

Tom said:


> Red Earth Exotics said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tom said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Red Earth Exotics said:
> 
> 
> 
> (sure wouldn't use a glock for this though!)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Me neither!
> 
> 200 yards? That's what my .308 is for. Well, the bullet is just stabilizing at 200. I can reliably hit out to 725 with it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah, but it's more fun and challenging with an iron sight revolver! You should check out a local silhouette match sometime. Lots of fun and silhouette shooters are some of the nicest ones around!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What?! When? I'm too busy taking care of hordes of reptiles nowadays...
Click to expand...


take some of the sulcatas with you. you'll be a hit. just don't let them down range!


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## ALDABRAMAN

LOL, it all boils down to choices! At least have them!


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## dmmj

I have lived my life by several rules
some of them include
better to have a gun and not need it than to need a gun and not have it
also one tom mentioned better to be judges by 12 than carried by 6
and hope for the best, prepare for the worst
While I don't own a gun I am looking in to getting one ( I do own some rifles though) If I can ever find a single woman who owns a gun in california I will probably marry her on the spot.


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## Chifte

Awesome to see some people are still carrying revolvers, I've always been a huge fan of revolvers and I've found them more comfortable to not only to handle but to wear IWB. 

I currently carry a SP101 2 1/4" with Hornady XTP 158g, built like a tank! The only thing I'm not a big fan of is the grip, I want to get a Badger grip as the reviews seem to sway towards people with larger hands.


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## montana

Treat every gun as if it was loaded ....

NEVER POINT YOUR GUN AT ANYTHING YOU DON`T INTEND TO SHOOT..

That`s my motto !!!

No one sees my gun till it is smoking in my hand !!!

Life aint TV and he is going to forget what you say as soon as his brains hit the ground anyway..

Pull the trigger till you are empty reload and pull it some more .. [reloading is not necessary with the glock ]

At one time I had a SW 1076 full length 10mm In the time I had it I found it to about be the equal of a 357 ..

I guess there were a lot of sissys that shot paper all the time couldn`t handel it To bad as it was an improvement over available semi auto rounds ..


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## Tom

Well you guys started the safety rules. May as well get in all four.
1. Treat EVERY gun as if it were loaded.
2. Never point your gun at anything that you are NOT willing to destroy.
3. Be aware of your target AND beyond.
4. Keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on the target.

You basically have to violate all four rules at the same time to have a "negligent discharge". I don't use the term "accident" anymore. Its not an accident when someone violates all four safety rules at the same time. Its most definitely negligence.

#4. above is the biggest one for me. ALL guns come with a built in "safety". None of them will just fire on their own. The trigger must pull pulled to the rear. This one drives me CRAZY when I see dumba*$#s in movies and on TV running around with their finger on the trigger. You can always tell when the actors have had proper training and when they bring in a real expert as a consultant on tactics.


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## Robert

Tom said:


> Rob, you're clearly a grown-up and I mean no disrespect, but I think its a mistake to shoot one at the range and carry an entirely different type out in the world.



I believe that any gun which will be carried should be fired as often as possible in a controlled setting: range, training courses etc. This point falls into the not debatable category. Muscle memory comes into play when in a truly defensive situation, and the only way to build this muscle memory is through controlled practice. I did say that I don't enjoy shooting my .38 revolver, but I DO make a point of shooting it each and every time I am at the range. 

BUT, self defense is not the only reason for owning firearms. For me, it is not even the primary reason. I enjoy shooting as a hobby. As part of this hobby, I enjoy shooting many different types of firearms. Pistols, rifles, shotguns. Auto, semi auto, single shot etc. So I like to shoot as many firearms as possible with a wide range of ammunition. 

My range experience is varied and is always changing based upon what type of event I might get involved in. 

So for me, the simplicity of a revolver makes sense when choosing a carry weapon. I give up ammo capacity, but my experience has been that I am ten times more likely to actually carry my revolver than any other firearm I've yet owned. 5 shots in my pocket is beter than 13 in my safe. 

I think the key, which some have stated already, is that a person should be completely comfortable with their carry pistol, no matter what form.

My disclaimer, which some might say makes me stupid for even getting involved in this thread, is that I have never owned a Glock. My Glock experience is limited to about 1000 rounds. (500 .40sw, 250 .45, 250 9mm)

I am hoping this thread will convince me to buy a Glock and get over my double action only issue. Who knows, owning a Glock might change my entire attitude about carrying my revolver over a semi automatic. I'm certainly open to that possibility. 

Now the question is, which one?


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## Tom

CtTortoise said:


> Now the question is, which one?



Great post above.

Which one? Ha. I couldn't pick, so I subscribed to Bill Clinton's one gun a month plan. Man that was a good idea of his. I had to buy another safe on account of his brilliant social engineering plan.

For me I have to physically try out all the options extensively when contemplating such an important decision. I can tell you the path that most people take and where they end up, but you'll probably need to get there yourself anyway. Most people start with a 17 or 19 and then decide 9mm is too anemic. Then they switch to the 21. Usually they realize the 21 is great, but too big to carry around. Most settle on the G23 in .40 as the best compromise of all the factors. I've been shooting and carrying the 23 for over 10 years now and just recently I've started reconsidering the 19 in 9mm. Advances in ammo technology have really minimized the end performance differences between 9, .45 and .40. Frankly, I just shoot the nine faster and more accurately. I can put them all in an 8" circle drawing from concealment, shooting fast, and on the move with the .40 or .45. But I can put them in a 4-6" circle with the 9.

One thing that I really like about the "Glock" platform is that once you learn one, you have learned them all. They all handle, point and shoot exactly the same. Makes it very convenient to switch to a 26 or 27 for light weight and warmer weather carry and your 19 or 23 for the rest of the time. They are all exactly the same size with just a little shaved off of the barrel or butt. The grip, trigger pull, width and sights are exactly the same.


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## Robert

Tom:

Please comment on your experience with the following:

C series vs standard. Does the compensator help much?

G36: single stack vs double stack. Have you used the g36? How does the single stack change the "feel" of the firearm? If you have used it, did you notice a difference with the slimmer grip?

I doubt I would have much interest in a .45 these days. As you already mentioned, improvements have made the 9mm and the .40 much more effective than they once were. 

I guess my my question would be: with the 23 you mentioned 8inch groupings from a tactical draw. Do you think the G23C would put you any closer to the 4inch groupings that you can achieve with the 9mm?

Thanks. 
Rob


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## Tom

The 19c has the lightest recoil "feel" of any Glock. Its my favorite to shoot. Its almost like a .22. I've shot many night classes and scenarios with it and the flash that so many people talk about have never posed a problem for me or anyone else that has actually used one at night. I was just using standard fmj target ammo too. With low flash defensive ammo, there is no more "flash" than with standard pistols. I am a little more accurate at speed with the 19c vs. the 19.

Its the same story with the 23c, but I feel very little difference in recoil between the 23 and 23c. Like the 19c, there is little or no upward flash and no problem shooting it at night or for low light scenarios. I should note that I have very good night vision and I'm so sensitive to light that I detest "night sights". They blind me. If flash was a problem for the C models, I would know. I'm no more accurate at speed with the 23c than I am with the 23. The only way for me to shrink my groups significantly with the .40's is to slow down. If I go slow, I can make one ragged hole with any Glock.

I have heard also that the upward flash can be a problem if the top of the muzzle is held too close to the body in certain CQB situations. This has never been a problem for me, even in weapons retention drills at very close range with live fire.

On the 36. I have held, but not shot it. Those who have shot it and carry it love it, but lament about the reduced ammo capacity. I've shot the 30 extensively and love it. Surprisingly, the 30 is the one my 5' tall mother shoots the best and finds the most comfortable. Go figure, huh?


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## Robert

Exactly the type of feedback I was looking for. I need to find a gun shop that will let me live fire a few before making a purchase. Thanks for the feedback!!


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## Tom

Wanna fly to CA? Warm and sunny here now.


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## Robert

If only........

This was last week.


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## Robert

Tom said:


> I finally found a nice leather IWB that is a decent compromise of all the factors.



Any thoughts on the Milt Sparks VMII? Which iwb do you currently use for your 19?


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## montana

I think the perfect Glock should first come in a meaningful caliber ...

There should be NO reason to shoot any thing more than once ... 

Ammo should come in armor piercing, Incendiary , and exploding [smart rounds would be cool ]

It should loose Those rudimentary sights [400 year old technology]and have night vision capability and be heat sensitive. It should be of one power to three and it could have a lock on feature..

The weapon its self should be semi auto full auto and three shot burst ...

The weapon should be shoulder stock compatible and the barrel should be threaded to accept a suppresser[the suppresser should double as a forearm and be insulated ..]


----------



## Robert

montana said:


> I think the perfect Glock should first come in a meaningful caliber ...
> 
> There should be NO reason to shoot any thing more than once ...
> 
> Ammo should come in armor piercing, Incendiary , and exploding [smart rounds would be cool ]
> 
> It should loose Those rudimentary sights [400 year old technology]and have night vision capability and be heat sensitive. It should be of one power to three and it could have a lock on feature..
> 
> The weapon its self should be semi auto full auto and three shot burst ...
> 
> The weapon should be shoulder stock compatible and the barrel should be threaded to accept a suppresser[the suppresser should double as a forearm and be insulated ..]



Montana:
Sounds like you need an XM25, not a pistol! Unfortunately they currently run $35,000! Rounds will be $35 when they go into full production this year.


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## montana

Back in the early 70 s a hand calculators were a hundred dollars each [In 1970 dollars ,you could buy a brand new VW for 1400 dollars ... 



montana said:


> Back in the early 70 s a hand calculators were a hundred dollars each [In 1970 dollars ,you could buy a brand new VW for 1400 dollars ...
> 
> The price of ammo while high Should not that prohibitive if it was [THE PERFECT GLOCK} there would be no need for practice as it would work so naturally [Like putting a spoon in your mouth ....]


----------



## montana

I looked up that Xm25 ...

I want !!!


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## Robert

Tom:

I've heard more and more lately that modern ammunition has helped even the playing field when it comes to man stopping power. I've even promoted the idea. That being said, I've just been going off of other peoples word, but havent done any research myself. 

My biggest interest is between 9mm and .40 cal. I've fired both, but I've never owned a 9mm. Any trusted resources you recommend where I can do some reading?

Any ammo recommendations for self defense purposes? What do ou use in your G19c?

Thanks.


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## Cameron

Check out Hornady Critical Defense ammo. Check it out on youtube, Hornady has a good little video about it and it's purpose.


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## CGKeith

Check this link out. Some good ammo comparison/testing info.

http://ammo.ar15.com/project/Self_Defense_Ammo_FAQ/index.htm


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## HHISIII

I have a 26 and while I can find no real fault with it, I don't really like it that much. It's efficient, accurate and reliable. On the other hand, I've had 1ftf (put around 6k through)in my P9S, it'll handle any load I can dream up and I can lay down <1" groups at 7yds with it. It's my baby and the weapon I find myself carrying most often. The laws are a tad lax as to what constitutes 'concealed' here, so most of the time it's a light shirt over a t-shirt and a Galco half harness shoulder holster.


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## motero

Loving the gun talk on the Tortoise Forum, I love guns of all types. 

"No tupperware for me." This made me laugh.


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## Cameron

took a picture this weekend of myself with my next carry gun...just gotta find the right holster for it....


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## Tom

Now that's big boom boom!


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## B K

Tom do you reload your own ammunition


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## Cameron

i don't know about Tom, but I do.

i use a Dillon 650 progressive loader. i'm only set up for 44 mag right now. i will be getting 45 ACP and 40 S&W conversion kits soon.


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## B K

I just got a RCBS still setting it up purchased 45acp dies

Still learning


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## Tom

B K said:


> Tom do you reload your own ammunition



I used to. It just got too time consuming. I'm too OCD to do it quickly. I spent WAYYY too much time paying attention to detail. I spent about 6 months working up a perfect handload for my .308. The absolute best groups I could get were about 1/2 MOA. The best groups I could get with Federal Match Ammo (the best one for this rifle) were about 1/2 MOA.

I gave up at that point...


----------



## B K

I am looking at buying a new 308 any suggestions.


----------



## yagyujubei

B K said:


> I am looking at buying a new 308 any suggestions.


HK 91


----------



## Tom

B K said:


> I am looking at buying a new 308 any suggestions.



Any of the Remmington 700 series. I like the PSS, if they still sell it. They are reasonably priced, super dependable, and as accurate as any gun 3 or 4 times the price.


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## Cameron

B K said:


> I am looking at buying a new 308 any suggestions.



Sig P238. I just bought one and it's awesome. It's like a baby 1911. It shoots well, comes with night sights and looks great too. Plus....Sig pistols are sweet...


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## CtTortoiseMom

I definately would not want Cameron as an enemy!!


----------



## B K

Very Nice Cameron. I picked this up not long ago.


----------



## Tom

Red Earth Exotics said:


> B K said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am looking at buying a new 308 any suggestions.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sig P238. I just bought one and it's awesome. It's like a baby 1911. It shoots well, comes with night sights and looks great too. Plus....Sig pistols are sweet...
Click to expand...


GOOD LORD! Sig makes a pistol in .308??? THat must have some serious recoil!!!



B K said:


> Very Nice Cameron. I picked this up not long ago.



Nice Bill. AK's certainly have their place. I've got a friend whose into them, and I've really learned to appreciate them lately.


----------



## Cameron

Tom said:


> Red Earth Exotics said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> B K said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am looking at buying a new 308 any suggestions.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sig P238. I just bought one and it's awesome. It's like a baby 1911. It shoots well, comes with night sights and looks great too. Plus....Sig pistols are sweet...
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


OOPS!!!!!!!!  it was a long night at work.....

I should look for a 308 pistol though, would be kinda fun...



CtTortoiseMom said:


> I definately would not want Cameron as an enemy!!



best ally, worst enemy..... 



B K said:


> Very Nice Cameron. I picked this up not long ago.



awesome. everyone needs an AK. have you checked out the Saiga 12g? it's basically an AK shotgun. magazine fed, plus you can get a drum mag for it. pretty cool. but get your hands on one quick if you want one....rumor is that they are going to get banned. if you already have one, you are "grandfathered" in.


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## Robert

CtTortoise said:


> As my wife mentioned, I do prefer the Sig over the Glock.



Consider me a convert.........








G19, G23, G26, G27, G78 Field Knife, SureFire E2d Executive Defender


----------



## Tom

That's great! You got the whole set! You're covered either way. I never tried their knife. Let me know how you like it. I tend to stick with Benchmade folders, but I've got a couple of RAT cutlery fixed blades too.

I LOVE America.


----------



## Robert

For $40, the knife is fine. Has a good edge and a good feel. The Glock polymer makes for a slightly lighter knife than I like for a fixed blade. The scabbard has pros and con's. It is nice, but in reality requires two hands to remove the knife. Also makes a rather loud click when replacing the knife. So not a bad knife overall, but not the best. The price is right. 

For a fixed blade fighting knife, the Gerber MKII is still my favorite. I love the feel of the slip resistant handle. The "killing knife" model available in the late 70s had one of the best pamphlets I've ever seen. It described the handle as being able to resist slip even when covered with blood, bodily fluids or gore. (Probably the only time I've ever seen the word "gore" used to describe anything other than a horror movie!)

I also really like the Camillus Pilot's survival knife. I have a few Vietnam dated Camillus blades, fixed and folders and they really hold up. The leather wrapped handle and hexagonal butt end of the pilots survival knife just get better with age. They are slightly smaller than the Kabar and just as lethal. Great knives.


----------



## Robert

Completed the Glock Certified Armorer's Course today. Absolutely a great course. I recommend that anyone who has the ability to take the course do so. You won't regret it.


----------



## exoticsdr

Copy cat! Trying to emulate your hero? ...(now where is the closest course to me?)...haha


----------



## Robert

Oh, come on Doc. You know that you are my hero!! I'm just waiting to copy you and move south with 15 acres and lots more animals!



BUT, here are the dates for the courses in Texas.....

Amarillo, TX: 8/2/11
Baytown, TX: 5/3/11
Fort Worth, TX: 6/2 and 12/1 2011
Lubbock, TX 8/30/2011
San Antonio, TX 4/26/2011
Terrell, TX 5/5/2011
Victoria, TX 6/14/2011


----------



## exoticsdr

THAT'S MY BOY!!!!


----------



## gummybearpoop

Glocks are cool, but pretty boring looks-wise (but who cares about looks when it comes to self-defense). I got to shoot a lot of them and owned one before. Definately user friendly. Glocks are like sulcatas...everyone's got one. lol They are hardy, dependable, and friendly. haha When it comes down to it though, glocks are affordable and dependable. That being said, if I were to get another sem-auto pistol...it would be a glock.

1911s are one of my favs. Stylish and awesome trigger.

I had a saiga 12 but sold it to a close friend. Awesome gun

That being said, I downsized the gun collection and kept my mossberg 12 gauge and Ruger 357 LCR. Both guns that fit my lifestyle of the outdoors.

Anywho, you didn't strike me as a gun guy Tom when I met you at TTPG


----------



## Tom

gummybearpoop said:


> Anywho, you didn't strike me as a gun guy Tom when I met you at TTPG



Is that good or bad? Haha.

You didn't strike me as one either Norman. Funny. Now we'll have yet another subject to discuss this November.


----------



## CtTortoiseMom

I shot the G19. So now I can be a part of this thread, yay!


----------



## Terry Allan Hall

Laura said:


> Never had the pleasure to shoot one.. we use revolvers at work. .22 rifle and Tranq gun..
> For home protection... give me a shotgun.. Big, easy to use, dont have to aim, and just the sound of it
> will make someone stop.



Indeed...for home security, it's hard to beat a pump 12-guage! Just working that ratcheting sounding action will usually cure most people of "the stupids". My wife isn't a gun-person, but she knows how to use my pump-12, as does my daughter...hopefully, they never will need it, but it's good to know that if some ne'er-do-well gets past our dogs, they'll have another surprise a-waiting them. 

A cop buddy of mine gave me this to carry in my pickup when I'm taking large amounts of money to the bank...1/8" over the legal minimum requirement here, and it's well-displayed on my gun-rack. So far, I've never had to pull the trigger.


----------



## Josh

I own that glock knife! It was recommended to me as a great field knife and I've been impressed with it.


----------

