# COCO COIR SUBSTRATE HELP



## wellington (Nov 6, 2011)

I found coco coir on Wayfair.com cheap. Having big problems with the tiny flying flies and want to switch to just the coir. Listed below is the description. Is this the same thing everyone talks about?
Nature's Footprint Coir Brick (250g) - $1.60-$10.59 with shipping to IL.
Coir (from Malayalam kayar, cord) 
Features:
Coir brick
Coir is the coarse fibers from a coconut husk
100% Natural and renewable resource
Replaces peat moss, rock wool and perlite
Compressed bricks are easy to handle and store
Disease resistant
Excellent air space and water holding capacity
pH Neutral
Holds 7 times its weight in water
Dimensions: 1.5" H x 4.5" W x 8.5" D
Now, I also grow seeds in two portable containers, to swap out. Any ideas on what I can grow the seeds in that won't support the tiny flies? They are getting out of hand, where I think two different pairs were OMG breeding on my kitchen wall, HELP.


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## lynnedit (Nov 6, 2011)

There was another thread about this, and the consensus was that coir was the least likely to be bug infested. The bugs are harmless to the tort, but annoying to us!
The kind you mention is fine, and coir makes a great substrate for burrowing, moisture retention, etc.
Make sure you monitor for fruit flies; they are similar, so keep all fruit in the fridge for awhile.
It is very hard to get rid of insects in any soil; be it indoor plants, tort enclosures, etc., and they may come back, but hopefully not in the coir!


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## DeanS (Nov 6, 2011)

I mentioned this before...but I'll point it out again! When you break up the brick, soak it in BOILING water...this is certain to kill any bugs (or larvae) that exist. I remove all substrate every couple of months and thoroughly boil it again. 

I also use a mixture of 4:1 coconut bark:coco coir.


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## dmarcus (Nov 6, 2011)

Yeah I would go with Dean on this and put the brick in boiling water to make sure if there is anything in it, that it will be killed..


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## lynnedit (Nov 6, 2011)

Good idea. And add less water than they recommend (directions tend to get it too wet), you can always add more.


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## wellington (Nov 6, 2011)

Thanks. I have some now that I use but not enough to replace all the dirt and grass I need to remove. Wanted to make sure this other stuff I found sounded ok.
Does anyone know if the weed/grass seeds I have will grow in the coir?


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## DeanS (Nov 6, 2011)

lynnedit said:


> Good idea. And add less water than they recommend (directions tend to get it too wet), you can always add more.



Not necessarily! I like total submersion! The more water you use...the more likely you are to kill everything! I literally will use 2 or 3 gallons per brick...then strain out all 'running' water...then let it air dry for awhile in the sun. Afterall, it should be moist (or at least *damp*) in the enclosure!



wellington said:


> Thanks. I have some now that I use but not enough to replace all the dirt and grass I need to remove. Wanted to make sure this other stuff I found sounded ok.
> Does anyone know if the weed/grass seeds I have will grow in the coir?



Most germinating seeds that a tortoise would eat should do fine in the coir...but if bugs find it...that's when they're near impossible to control. I like the idea of setting up a separate 'feeding' habitat! For the winter months here in SoCal, I keep the younger torts in one enclosure that's humid and well-heated...with nothing but the bark/coir substrate, their hides and appropriate heat/lighting plus a basking stone...usually flagstone. Then I keep a second habitat where I feed each tort one at a time. Once they abandon the food, I switch them out. I know it's a little involved...but for me, it's routine. I don't leave water available in any habitat, because I soak them twice a day...for a minimum of 20 minutes per session!


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## redann (Nov 26, 2011)

I'm unsure about flies, I will have to keep an eye on my coconut fiber. 

But I do have one word of warning...since I see you are a fellow midwesterner. 

I am trying to dry out one of those fiber bricks for my hermann, and it is taking forever because in Minnesota this time of year there is no sun and too cold/wet outside. It also didn't help that I used way too much water and even straining the coir and putting it my driest room didn't help it over the last 3 days.

Being impatient, I am **carefully** baking out the excess moisture - it is taking forever. 
EDIT: Just checked and coconut fiber can be highly flamable, so I stopped the baking and do not recommend others to try it. I will just have to let it air dry indoors - Sorry for the misinformation. 

Good Luck!
Ann


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## ripper7777777 (Nov 27, 2011)

I did the same thing, to much water and took forever to dry out in our cool winter high humidity, I spread it out of table with fans.

I now have flies, they seem to be after the lettuce but I think they came in from outside and flew into the enclosure, very annoying. Anyone know if baby toads are safe for torts to live with, they'd end the bug problem.


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## EricIvins (Nov 27, 2011)

No sense in trying to boil or bake a substrate that doesn't come with bugs.........However, it does a really good job of attracting Phorrid Flies or the myriad of other little Flies because of the moisture content.......

Fruit Flies are easy to get rid of - Keep the enclosure clean and store any Vegetables and Fruit wrapped up - Once you have any other type of Fly, the only thing you can do is control the numbers........You'll never totally get rid of them.........


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## TurtleTortoise (Nov 27, 2011)

I don't think the seeds would grow well in it because it is shredded coconut and it doesnt have any minerals and stuff.


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## Momof4 (Dec 1, 2011)

I spread tortoise seed mix in my viv with coir and it sprouts up in 2 days. My RF doesn't graze on it but it helps with humidity and I think he enjoys walking thru it. I even put fresh pumkin seeds in and they sprout in 24hrs. He does eat those leaves. I have those flies too, I buy fruit flies for my dart frog so I thought that's why I had so many. Annoying but I guess harmless.


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## doubletorts (Dec 3, 2011)

Momof4 said:


> I spread tortoise seed mix in my viv with coir and it sprouts up in 2 days. My RF doesn't graze on it but it helps with humidity and I think he enjoys walking thru it. I even put fresh pumkin seeds in and they sprout in 24hrs. He does eat those leaves. I have those flies too, I buy fruit flies for my dart frog so I thought that's why I had so many. Annoying but I guess harmless.



Where do you get tortoise seed mix?


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## lynnedit (Dec 3, 2011)

http://www.carolinapetsupply.com/ca...ath=41&zenid=342827010938d223f02927a348aaa8c6
Grazing tortoise mix on the first page, Russian mix (less grass) on the second.
Nice selection of individual seeds. Reminds me, I will try to sprout some Turnip greens, excellent green for torts.


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## phantoms (Dec 5, 2011)

wellington said:


> I think two different pairs were OMG breeding on my kitchen wall, HELP.



Hey wellington....take a couple of small bowls and put some apple cider vinegar and liquid dish soap in it. Cover it with plastic wrap and poke holes in the cover. Place it on your kitchen counter out of the way and one by your torts. The bugs will be attracted to the vinegar and crawl in the bowl and die. That will help you control if eliminate them. Hope it helps you....worth a shot.


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## Momof4 (Dec 5, 2011)

Wow I will try the vinegar idea!
I got my seed from Carolina too! I did see him take a few bites. I cut it and mix it in his food.


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