# Vitamin supplements



## Madkins007 (Nov 26, 2009)

In a thread about pyramiding in Russian Tortoises (http://tortoiseforum.org/thread-10585.html), EJ made the comment:

"Ummm... how are animal/reptile vitamins formulated? 

Joe is a very good salesman. I have to give him credit for that.

Vitamins are formulated based on a model... all vitamins. This is because no two organisms are the same. It's a very general formula. Centrum seems to be the most complete formula... in general. Check out Maders Reptile and Surgery..."

I believe the passage in Mader's he is speaking of is page 39 (second edition): 

"Herbivorous reptiles need a quality multivitamin and mineral supplement. However, the vitamin and mineral requirements for most reptiles has not been determined, and most recommendations are anecdotal. Over- supplementation has occurred when vitamins are administered too frequently or in large quantities. Also, be aware that over-supplementation does not always balance an otherwise deficient diet (i.e appropriate vitamin and mineral intake in the absence of sufficient roughage may still result in an unhealthy reptile.) As in mammals, sometimes over-supplementation of one nutrient may result in a deficiency in another. In most cases, multivitamin and mineral supplementation once or twice weekly is sufficient." (Any error in transcribing is my own dang fault.)

The recommendation for crushed human multi-vitamins is one you see more and more as several pet vitamin mixes have been found to not contain what the label says, even those by large, reputable companies. Human products, on the other hand, are much better regulated and generally a heck of a lot cheaper. The only thing to remember in human vitamins is that they are designed so that one small tablet supplements a very large human- our torts would only need a very small pinch. 

The more honest pet food companies, like Mazuri, tells you each vitamin and mineral as a percent of the food mass, NOT what percent of the animal's need it fulfills. In other words, it says that calcium is about 1.2% of each pellet- NOT that it provides 80% of the tortoise's need- which would be a lie since no study has yet determined what the dosage is.

Another point to remember is that more and more, fewer and fewer experts want you (the human) to take a vitamin at all, or if you do, to only take them very occasionally. Like Mader said- they really don't fix some things- better to just offer a good diet. Also like Mader said- over-supplementation is a bad thing- and something commonly seen in pets.


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## Yvonne G (Nov 26, 2009)

This was very helpful. Thank you.


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## Kayti (Nov 26, 2009)

Stupid question, but what book is that citation from?
Thanks


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## Yvonne G (Nov 26, 2009)

That IS the name of it...Mader's Reptile and Surgery, written by Douglas Mader


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## Kayti (Nov 26, 2009)

emysemys said:


> That IS the name of it...Mader's Reptile and Surgery, written by Douglas Mader



Oh duh! I didn't reread Ej's part. Thanks


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## Madkins007 (Nov 27, 2009)

Actually, I did not correct the minor typo. It is Douglas Mader, DVM's "Reptile Medicine and Surgery" Second Edition. 

It is a great book- considered sort of THE 'go-to' book for herp vets, but not something you would expect to find in the average tortoise person's library considering the price and how little of the very thick book applies to tortoises. I did a review of it at 'turtle forum' that I should eventually copy over to here.


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## Stephanie Logan (Nov 27, 2009)

Thanks for the well-researched answer to a question I and many others have had! Especially the part about the labelling of vitamin contents as a percentage of food mass as opposed to "percent of daily values based on a 2000-calorie diet"!


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