# Vet Question



## jenkins2728 (Nov 30, 2010)

Are vet clinics chargin too much?


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## Yvonne G (Nov 30, 2010)

Depends upon who you ask...ask me and I say heck yeah! But ask the guy who had to buy the x-ray machine, the incubators, the examination tables, and all the implements of his trade and he'd tell you he wasn't charging nearly enough.


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## jenkins2728 (Nov 30, 2010)

Haha yea. I feel like vets will turn into salesman who have a hold of your money.


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## jackrat (Nov 30, 2010)

When you consider that a vetrinarian has almost the same amount of training that an MD does and,as Yvonne pointed out,has to buy much of the same equipment,it's probably a fair price. It doesn't mean I enjoy paying it.


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## jenkins2728 (Nov 30, 2010)

Ok well I will definitely look into my local clinics. Thanks.


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## Shelly (Nov 30, 2010)

I recently put my 16 year old dog to sleep. She was blind and could no longer walk. Before they would euthanize her, she needed an "exam" which they tried to charge me $50 for, until I raised a stink. 
I worked for a vet for 4 years as a young man, and I have mixed feelings about the profession. as far as treating tortoises, forget it. Most know far less than many of the people that post here on the forums.


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## Michiba54 (Nov 30, 2010)

emysemys said:


> Depends upon who you ask...ask me and I say heck yeah! But ask the guy who had to buy the x-ray machine, the incubators, the examination tables, and all the implements of his trade and he'd tell you he wasn't charging nearly enough.



I think some vets get alittle help with that, or at least med school, from dog/cat food companies... in return they push that brand.


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## ALDABRAMAN (Dec 1, 2010)

I so agree with shelly about most treating torotises. My prior profession I dealt with vets regarding our police dogs, WOW, what a racket. I struggle with some vets, however they have alot of overhead, expenses, and they do need to make a living. I feel if they are competent and have a honest good faith practice, I have no problems with what they charge. I have witnesses over inflated prices, over charging, and doing proceedures that are not needed. I think most fit into the same catagory as all other businesses, make as much as they can for as little as they can.


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## TKCARDANDCOIN (Dec 1, 2010)

It is 35.00 just to walk in the door plus whatever tests the vet orders and/or meds!I think it is worth it if your animal is sick.Cheaper than my human Dr.!!!


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## abra (Dec 1, 2010)

I want to be a vet  Hahhah, I don't think I'm smart enough though  Or I might be like a wildlife biologist or field biologist still not sure, something along those lines, I just know I want my job to have to do with animals


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## TKCARDANDCOIN (Dec 1, 2010)

You can do anything you put your mind to!If you want to be a vet, go for it.You have nothing to lose and everything to gain.A wildlife biologist would be cool too.


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## Shelly (Dec 2, 2010)

abra said:


> I want to be a vet  Hahhah, I don't think I'm smart enough though  Or I might be like a wildlife biologist or field biologist still not sure, something along those lines, I just know I want my job to have to do with animals



Keep your grades up.


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## Jermosh (Dec 5, 2010)

We have an awesome Vet, he has 2 full grown sullies, volunteers at various shelters, is director on PHS, and works with AZ G&W for captured and nuisance reptile placement and health. So I really don't mind the $50 visit, we actually get to sit with him for 30 mins or so. He does reptiles, birds, and small mammals. He also has a mobile unit to come to your home for large animals.

As for if you need to use one. Yes IMHO. Few reasons, one is to find a Vet that you like for emergencies, nothing worse they having an emergency and finding out that your vet is horrible. Another is that Torts hide illness pretty well, so blood tests can make a proactive treatment for an illness before its an issue, or a trained finger can test for stones before they need to be operated on. 

Look in your area for a reptile shelter, they might run mobile clinics or have clinic days at a reduced cost.


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## Madkins007 (Dec 5, 2010)

As for vets being a part of a racket or salespeople- they are amateurs about it compared to the scams some doctors pull. A doc will tell you to get an expensive cat scan when a simple cheap X-ray will often do the job, and oh, yeah- he is part owner in the cat scan lab.


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## Marty333 (Dec 5, 2010)

Lol @ Abra  I want to be a vet that specializes in herps. You don't have to be that amazing at math right?


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## Yvonne G (Dec 5, 2010)

Oh yes you do! It amazes me what my vet can figure out in her head when it comes to dosages and percentages and weights. Lots of numbers and figuring.


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## Shelly (Dec 5, 2010)

Marty333 said:


> Lol @ Abra  I want to be a vet that specializes in herps. You don't have to be that amazing at math right?



Yes you do. You must be EXTREMELY good at math to get through 4 years of college, get accepted at a Vet school (VERY tough competition) then get a Doctor of Veterinarian Medicine degree, then pass your Licensing Exam.
You don't get to be a Vet just because you really, really like animals.
Keep your grades up.


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## Marty333 (Dec 5, 2010)

Well as long as it doesnt have to do with shapes Im good


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## exoticsdr (Dec 5, 2010)

A loaded question if I've ever read one.

Let's put some of this into perspective. 

First, Pet food companines DO NOT help pay our tuitions in exchange for us PUSHING thier products. They do, however, provide veterinary students with free food for our pets, some great learning opportunities and provide some really great medical reference materials that would otherwise be beyond the means of most veterinary students.

The average expected income for a new veterinary graduate is around $50,000/yr. (national average, small animal medicine...now if you want to be an exotics vet or wildlife vet, knock about 10-15K off that) Now, considering that I accrued almost 1/4 Million dollars in tuition debt in the 8 years that I went to school....not looking to good for the payoff on those loans until I'm about 89 years old. I'm not complaining, I got accepted into med school about 6 months before getting my vet acceptance letter...I made my choice with no regrets. And competition? Well, there are about 151 medical schools in the US compared to 27 vetererinary medical schools....my class had 1800 applications for 100 positions. Let's see, my MD brother-in-law started out at something just over $200,000/yr, I say great for him...he is a brillian pathologist.

Let's talk a little about a typical office visit on a really sick animal. First you have to interview the client. Now, after listening to the endless stories about how long they have owned pets, and a precise history of every pet they've owned roughly since the client was passed from the womb, they have absolutely no idea WHY the pet quit eating 10 days ago and hasn't been able to stand for the last three days....but they are almost positive the pet was doing great yesterday. Now, I turn to the pet and ask them how they feel, where does it hurt? do you feel nauseous? no answers there, other than the ones that careful observation, palpation and auscultation reveal. I think you get it. 

Diagnostics.....where do we start here. They all cost money, the tests, the reagents used, the lab equipment, the blood draw equipment, the electricity, the water, the technician, the receptionist who fends off phone calls while the test results are interpretted. Now, if I could just find a place to practice that had clients that knew their critters so well they could just tell me what the white blood cell count was, what the ALT, ALP, BUN, CREAT, TBIL was.....if they could just have that pesky fecal float and direct exam, urinalysis and urine sediment done BEFORE they got to me.....life would be grand. Now since that's not the case, I have to decide where to start, what is likely to be fruitful and what may be helpful and THEN have to offer the diagnostics to the client one at a time, explaining what I may be able to determine and then rank the information's helpfulness on a scale of 1-10 to the client and then sometimes wait for 20-30 minutes while they make phone calls to spouses, significant others and Uncle Bubba who told them to pour burn motor oil on it, cuz that's what worked for him last time. Oh and my all time personal favorite...."Yeah, but I read on the internet." Now, I just went for my annual physical exam....cost me upwards of $700 and I had absolutely NO CHOICE on the tests to be run, doc came in, told me to drop my pants, tickled places that I really didn't want tickled and sent me home without so much as a peck on the cheek and NO IDEA of what it just cost me.

What about explaining the test results? Now I know lots of docs that like to throw those big medical terms out and watch the client's eyeballs spin round-and-round...me? I like to let them know the terminology so they can research it if they choose, but like to explain in terms they can more easily understand, this adds about 10-15% more time to a visit.

What about drugs? Now, I could simply give a prescription and send you to the local pharmacy at which time you get a nice paper stapled to your meds explaining the who's, what's, when's and what-fors of the drug.....bet that's not how we operated, at least not me, demonstrations of administration are the norm, explaining the dosing regimen no less that four times only to have to tell most clients that it's all on the label to read for themselves---that's another 10 minutes.

Then, if there are children present, there is always one that is going to be a veterinarian and we always get hit up for time to let them volunteer so they can see what it's like to be a vet.....and we let them, but it all takes time and money. This is truly an honorable, fulfilling profession, but you CANNOT do it just because you love animals...you have to love people too,.....it all goes hand-in-hand. I strongly encourage ANYONE wanting to become a vet to go for it....no one is too old, Hell, I didn't even start college until I was 30 years old.

That said, my services are worth much more than the paltry $40 that my clinic charges for you to make your problems, my problems.


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## PeanutbuttER (Dec 5, 2010)

From my experience, yes vets are overpriced. I was charged a bit over $300 last time I went to the vet. I took my torts there because I knew they had parasites and wanted to get them treated for it. 

So, of course the vet has to do the fecal himself to prove there are worms (I can understand this), but then he goes ahead and charges me for 3 visits because I brought 3 torts which ticks me off because he only spent the same minimal time with me as he would have if i had brought only one tort.

$300 bucks later, I leave his office with dewormer medicine that I could have bought at a feed store for a fraction of that price and then researched it myself how much to administer.

Also, he knew very little about torts, another reason why that was not a 300 bucks well spent IMO.


Katerina- if you want to be a vet, then you just have to do your best in school. If being pre-vet is anything like being pre-med, then that means that while your friends get to play and do fun things you will need to be working on projects, studying, and volunteering in all your free time (not to mention the hours you need to put forth doing job shadowing and doing your best to get a job at a place that will give you some exposure to vet medicine.)

It's very doable, but you'll need to learn to be okay with being constantly busy.


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## exoticsdr (Dec 5, 2010)

PeanutbuttER said:


> From my experience, yes vets are overpriced. I was charged a bit over $300 last time I went to the vet. I took my torts there because I knew they had parasites and wanted to get them treated for it.
> 
> So, of course the vet has to do the fecal himself to prove there are worms (I can understand this), but then he goes ahead and charges me for 3 visits because I brought 3 torts which ticks me off because he only spent the same minimal time with me as he would have if i had brought only one tort.
> 
> ...



Great advice!


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## PeanutbuttER (Dec 5, 2010)

exoticsdr said:


> PeanutbuttER said:
> 
> 
> > From my experience, yes vets are overpriced. I was charged a bit over $300 last time I went to the vet. I took my torts there because I knew they had parasites and wanted to get them treated for it.
> ...



Since I feel like it may help people better understand where I'm coming from and what I value, I also would like to rant for a moment about doctors. The more I learn about medicine and the more my experience increase the more that I see that there are doctors that I frankly don't trust. I am probably too critical, but I have expectations and I will hold myself to them when I practice. At bare minimum though I expect that the physicians undivided attention be on the task at hand. I expect the same of my vet. I absolutely HATE it when a doctor half listens to me and same goes for vets. I really liked that exoticsdr brought up how (vet)medicine is about people since for me that is at least half of what makes a good doctor great. 

Thanks for letting me rant, I'll stop now


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## matt41gb (Dec 5, 2010)

exoticsdr said:


> A loaded question if I've ever read one.
> 
> Let's put some of this into perspective.
> 
> ...



I absolutely love, love, love this post!!!! I work for a veterinarian and have to deal with pretty much everything that you listed. People complain, and try to get away with not paying for services. No matter how much you try to explain why we do something to someone's pet, most don't listen. I'm actually very blessed to work at the clinic that I do. We have very good clients that will pay for just about anything they need for their animals. I make an estimate for every client that comes in, so there are no surprises when it comes time to check out. I explain everything on the estimate, so they understand. We always start out with the minimum and work from there. People just don't realize how much work we really do, and realize that our time and experience is worth way more than a $50 office visit. Thanks again for this post. I wish I could work for you!! Ha! 

-Matt


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## ALDABRAMAN (Dec 5, 2010)

I also think it is human nature to complain about the cost of things. I complain about what it cost to get a battery for my motor cycle, $210 and how much the new tires were on my H1 Alpha $6200, but I would do it again and it is what the market is. I feel alot of people are financially challenged due to the ecomony these days and this factors in to it. What I really struggle with is being cheated or mislead, I have no tolerance at all for that.


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## matt41gb (Dec 6, 2010)

I always say, there is no such thing as a free animal. You know that eventually you'll have to take it to the vet; whatever it is. People just ignore the fact that vet visits will be in the future. If the economy is so bad, then don't get a pet. 


-Matt


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## exoticsdr (Dec 6, 2010)

matt41gb said:


> I always say, there is no such thing as a free animal. You know that eventually you'll have to take it to the vet; whatever it is. People just ignore the fact that vet visits will be in the future. If the economy is so bad, then don't get a pet.
> 
> 
> -Matt



Some more food for thought when looking at vet pricing.....we use the exact same diagnostic equipment that the MD profession uses and we pay the same prices for it, EXCEPT there are no government subsidy programs that help us pay for the equipment. Now, we still get to depreciate equipment on our taxes, but he initial outlay is still out of pocket and it is substantial. The equipment used to take those radiographs costs from $30k to 120k for modern equipment, that lab equipment costs around $20k+, especially for the equipment that can be used on exotic animals....most lab equipment cannot be used to test blood from exotics, especially those with nucleated blood cells...old fashion blood smears and the specialization to read them is usually the only recourse for most clinics and the use of outside labs (which ads paperwork, time($$$) and shipping ($$$$) and delays in treatment)...so many factors to consider when trying to determine whether or not a vet is charging too much....and then you have to ask yourself, what is too much when no other vet is willing to take the case? Gosh, I could go on and on (most of you probably think that I already am.)

That said, Hope everyone has a Merry Christmas!


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## Turtulas-Len (Dec 6, 2010)

I guess I'm lucky,There are plenty of vets in my area. I use 3 different ones for different things,The one I use the most is a exotic vet and she does mammals also,The best part is she does house calls,the initial cost is $90 but she will do a lot for that $90,If she doesn't know the answer to a question she will research it till she finds the correct answer at no extra cost, she only has limited surgery dates because she rents the space from one of the other vets I use but only when she has enough surgeries to fill a day. This(the 2nd vet) is the one I mainly use for emergencies that may pop up it's about a 10 mile drive. The third is one, I use for surgery spay, nuder, etc,My daughter in-law works at this one and it has all the newest equipment and some really good surgeon's.It's about a 70 mile drive from the beach house where I spend most of my time. I have used this one long before my daughter in-law started working there.---So if you can, SHOP AROUND and check prices.--- I have a female rottie that I wanted to have spayed so I called some of the local vets here in VA.and they all ranged in the $350 to $400 price, The one in MD where my daughter in-law works was much cheaper even before the preferred customer discount, after the discount it cost $200, They all charge by the pound and they all have different rates per pound. Len----------when i was 15 i wanted to be a vet also,and if i had gone in that direction i would probably still be going to work every day, sure glad i chose a different coarse....


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## Jermosh (Dec 6, 2010)

I wish we could get some tort health insurance.

I paid almost $800+ on Shelly when he got hit with a pickaxe. Sure its a lot of money, but really looking at all the time, care and expertise that our Vet used its fairly paltry. He is doing great though, his shell should be fine for sure.


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## mango matto (Dec 22, 2010)

I think when it comes to exotics the price is probably pretty fair assuming you go to a vet that has a fair amount of experience dealing with your type of animal. When it comes to dogs and cats routine visits are probably slightly over priced. Like any other business when you do things over and over and over you find many efficiencies. Those efficiencies should find a way to the patients pocket. The real rip off is the emergency vet. If your animal gets injured on a Sunday or after hours you might be better off just shooting your own foot with a 12 guage because they are gonna stick it to you. If any of you have gone to the emergency vet you know what I'm talking about.....


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## matt41gb (Dec 22, 2010)

Jermosh said:


> I wish we could get some tort health insurance.
> 
> I paid almost $800+ on Shelly when he got hit with a pickaxe. Sure its a lot of money, but really looking at all the time, care and expertise that our Vet used its fairly paltry. He is doing great though, his shell should be fine for sure.



Sign up for Care Credit. I believe most clinics accept it. 

-Matt


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## Tom (Dec 22, 2010)

I have dealt with a lot of vets over the years. Some are very good and others are not for a whole lot of reasons.

This is a really tough one. So many points of view.


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## Jermosh (Dec 23, 2010)

matt41gb said:


> Jermosh said:
> 
> 
> > I wish we could get some tort health insurance.
> ...



Good point.


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## Madkins007 (Dec 24, 2010)

You can change the word 'vet' to 'doctor', 'mechanic', 'plumber', etc. in most of these posts and they would work exactly the same. 

I really like and respect my vet, and we have a good relationship. I know his comfort level with my torts (I usually see him for my hairy pets), and feel we could work together if they had a medical issue. But I also like my doc and mechanic.


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## Yvonne G (Dec 24, 2010)

Before our zoo vet went out on her own to be a mobile vet, I was using a vet who was the first to admit that he didn't know much about turtles and tortoises, but that he was willing to learn. Plus, he had "mentors" in other states that he could call if need be. I really liked this man. He was humble and he didn't want to do brain surgery on a hang nail.

So now I'm using our ex-zoo vet. The only problem being, because she's mobile, she doesn't have all the equipment that a vet hospital does. But knowledge? Man-o-man does that woman know her stuff!


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