# Desert Tortoise eggs.



## armandoarturo

Hi good day everyone. Im new around...
I have a question to make..
(sorry if my english is bad, my first language its spanish)

Im Armando, im from Sonora, Mexico. 
Im a toroise keeper (Gopherus agassizii) or desert tortoise.
I have been raising and carying for Desert tortoises for 15 years, and I know everything about them. I protect them, and remove tortoises away from people that dont give a good care.

I'm also working on a future project, that will help tortoises in the local area, and my yard its big and 100% suitable for them. x

The thing is, I usually let eggs develop in their nest...
I do care a lot from the outside the nest, but I usually dont like to incubate them, because I preffer letting mother nature to take care of them, and let the good ones do it.
but.... 35 days ago, a friend who knows about my project, found out that his neihbour's female tortoise layed a clutch of 8 eggs, without burried them. This because they dont have ground in the back yard. It is all full of concrete. (I know, thats NOT good at all).
The thing is that I came up to my friends neigbhour's house, and asked her to let me see the eggs, and explain to her that the eggs wouldnt develop without a good care, and tryied to convince her of giving them to me.
Luckly, she agreeded, and gave me the 8 eggs, and also gave me her male tortoise. I tryied to also get the female, but she refused.

So i came back home, and build in a incubator-like box, and placed it outside in a suitable shaded place.
As I dont do the incubating thing, Im really worried about them, because I know that eggs can not be rotated as the embryo can die.
I have never rotated them, i took them from where the neighbour had them, and place them carefully in the same position as they where. (I dont really know if the neighbour rotated the eggs when picking them up, she doesnt remembers) (AND I REALLY HOPE SHE DIDNT)
I have tryied to candle them, and they all look different in the inside, but it seems that they are all fertile as all of them have veins-like inside.

My question is... how can I really tell if the embryo is growing inside?
how should it look now that they are like 35 - 36 days old?
how long does it takes for an infertile egg or died embryo egg to go waste? 
can I pick them up nicely to candle them?


Thanks a lot!!!!!


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## Yvonne G

*RE: Dessert Tortoise eggs.*

Hi Armando:

Welcome to the forum!!

You can pick up the eggs, no harm will come to them. If you are seeing the blood vessels, then chances are excellent that they eggs are fertile. The eggs should hatch in about three months. I don't ever toss any eggs away, as rotten-looking eggs sometimes really aren't rotten, and hatch out babies. 

I would love to see your habitat for your tortoises. We are a curious and interested group of people, and we really love seeing how people in other countries take care of their tortoises. Desert tortoises (Gopherus agassizii) are one of my favorite kinds of tortoise. They are so sweet and gentle.


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## armandoarturo

*RE: Dessert Tortoise eggs.*

Thanks so much for the answer...
I will have a look once more tonight and take some pictures to show you whats going on...
and also I'll take pictures of my yard... it is divided into 2 sections, yard and tortoises area but still, they are free and are everywhere.
Right now I have 1 mature female, 1 mature male. A little guy that starts looking like a gal, (she or he was runned over a car, and I rescued her, and saved her life)...
3 little ones that are 4 years old... and the 8 eggs !
I finally caught both mature tortoises copulating yesterday, they where hiding in a little place, and penetration was going on, and Im almost sure that they did make it haha.
We will see what happen, because its already too late for egg laying...

I cant find how to upload images in here... so.. heres this tortoise blog I made for the pictures..
You will be able to see a picture that I took when I first got the eggs, and also some pictures of yesterday. 
here: http://cecylio.blogspot.com/


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## Tortuga_terrestre

*RE: Dessert Tortoise eggs.*

Bienvenido Armando,

Its a pleasure to know; tortoises across the border are being cared for. In many latin american countries, people dont have much appreciatiation for animals. I also prefer to let mother nature take its course. Now are your tortoises Gopherus agassizii or Gopherus flavomarginatus more commonly know as the Bolson Tortoise? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bolson_Tortoise


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## armandoarturo

*RE: Dessert Tortoise eggs.*

Hi tortuga terrestre!
I know that latin american peopple dont usually have appreciation for animals. In my family we do care a lot for animals, and since I was little, my mom taught me to care a lot about nature. Thats why im trying to get an ecologic concience around the area..

My tortoises, They are Gopherus agassizzi.
You can see some pictures I just uploaded in here http://cecylio.blogspot.com/ x)

Im about to upload some pictures I just took from the confiscated eggs....


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## dmmj

*RE: Dessert Tortoise eggs.*

quick question. Are you doing this privatly or with goverment help?


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## armandoarturo

*RE: Dessert Tortoise eggs.*

Goverment still doesnt give any help for this kind of things...
actually they dont really care about animal care...
Im doing it with the local Zoo.


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## Laura

*RE: Dessert Tortoise eggs.*

Im going to assume that the laws there are different then here, if there are any.. 
so incubating the eggs artificially is not a problem.. 
Thank you for caring and taking care of such wonderful cretures.


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## armandoarturo

*RE: Dessert Tortoise eggs.*

Yes, laws are VERY different..
Theres not even a goverment animal protection foundation, or something, in here :S
I dont know how its called, but theres just a place that gets all the dogs out from the street, I've been there myself... and its a horrible place.
They dont even look for people to adopt the animals.... they just wait for a week to see if they did have owner. If they dont... they get them wet, and kill them with electricity.
Horrible!!
Its really sad, but goverment dont really pay attention to this kind of things.
Thats why Im trying to make this regional campaign.

Like I said.. I never incubate the eggs, I rather letting them do it by themselves, as mother nature lets the strong and good ones do it... 
But its really getting on my nerves, because I dont know if the neighbour harmed them :S
I just uploaded some images of the candled eggs...
Can anyone please have a look and let me know what you think?
thanks a lot

Opps.... I forgot to put the link... http://cecylio.blogspot.com/


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## Tortuga_terrestre

*RE: Dessert Tortoise eggs.*



armandoarturo said:


> Yes, laws are VERY different..
> Theres not even a goverment animal protection foundation, or something, in here :S
> I dont know how its called, but theres just a place that gets all the dogs out from the street, I've been there myself... and its a horrible place.
> They dont even look for people to adopt the animals.... they just wait for a week to see if they did have owner. If they dont... they get them wet, and kill them with electricity.
> Horrible!!
> Its really sad, but goverment dont really pay attention to this kind of things.
> Thats why Im trying to make this regional campaign.
> 
> Like I said.. I never incubate the eggs, I rather letting them do it by themselves, as mother nature lets the strong and good ones do it...
> But its really getting on my nerves, because I dont know if the neighbour harmed them :S
> I just uploaded some images of the candled eggs...
> Can anyone please have a look and let me know what you think?
> thanks a lot
> 
> Opps.... I forgot to put the link... http://cecylio.blogspot.com/





Mexico and other latin american countries have so many problems going on within their own government, animals are not even considered a topic. A couple years ago, I visited El Salvador and I saw dead animals on the side of the road being eaten by Vultures! Tortoises and turtles are eaten in these countries; because they are considered an afrodisiac. Dogs carry no value in these countries. When their is an over population in a village;they are given un "Bocado" (Food with poison) and the carcasses are burned in the morning. I really hope you start that campaign in sonora; people need to be educated.


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## armandoarturo

*RE: Dessert Tortoise eggs.*

About the thing that you said, of tortoises being eaten..
The lady who gave me the eggs, told me that friends of her, take the tortoises that they find in the wild, and put them into pots with boiling water, STILL ALIVE!!
I could not belive what she was telling me, she told me they do this, because its hard to kill them, so they just put them into boiling water and wait until they die, then they eat them. Im still freaked out, I cant belive there can be such mean people, with no feelings. :S

Tortuga terrestre, did you have a look at the pictures that I told you about?


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## Tortuga_terrestre

*RE: Dessert Tortoise eggs.*



armandoarturo said:


> About the thing that you said, of tortoises being eaten..
> The lady who gave me the eggs, told me that friends of her, take the tortoises that they find in the wild, and put them into pots with boiling water, STILL ALIVE!!
> I could not belive what she was telling me, she told me they do this, because its hard to kill them, so they just put them into boiling water and wait until they die, then they eat them. Im still freaked out, I cant belive there can be such mean people, with no feelings. :S
> 
> Tortuga terrestre, did you have a look at the pictures that I told you about?



WOW! Ive never heard of that! But I did see a video of a turtles heart still beating 30 minutes after being killed. Truly heartless. I understand people eat these reptiles, but if your going to kill it.....make it QUICK! I really hope you start that campaign. I did see your pictures. AWESOME! I hope they hatch. What part of Sonora do you live in? Are there alot of tortoise where your from? Do people go into the desert and take them?


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## armandoarturo

*RE: Dessert Tortoise eggs.*

I was from ObregÃƒÂ³n, but I just moved to Hermosillo.
There are not that many out there in th wild, but it isnt that hard to see one specially now in rainy days..
There used to be a lot of them back on time.. and it wasnt that hard to see them..
I've heared of friends of mine that have cottages, that they see many.
It seems to be that there are some concentrations of them around the wild, specially nearby little rivers.
And about people going into the desert to find tortoises... I think they dont go and look for them... they just get them if they find them.
I remember when I was little, my father used to take me a lot to the desert for camping... one time we found a huge sac right in the middle of nowhere... and we looked inside, and it was FULLY filled with tortoises carapaces. We where in shock.


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## Madortoise

*RE: Dessert Tortoise eggs.*



armandoarturo said:


> I was from ObregÃƒÂ³n, but I just moved to Hermosillo.
> There are not that many out there in th wild, but it isnt that hard to see one specially now in rainy days..
> There used to be a lot of them back on time.. and it wasnt that hard to see them..
> I've heared of friends of mine that have cottages, that they see many.
> It seems to be that there are some concentrations of them around the wild, specially nearby little rivers.
> And about people going into the desert to find tortoises... I think they dont go and look for them... they just get them if they find them.
> I remember when I was little, my father used to take me a lot to the desert for camping... one time we found a huge sac right in the middle of nowhere... and we looked inside, and it was FULLY filled with tortoises carapaces. We where in shock.


OMG! That is terrible...what did they do w/the animals? It must have left an impression on your young mind. Welcome to the forum and glad to hear you can be the champion of the DTs on your side. Tortoises have no borders...the ones on our side is almost endangered and doomed and yet we are not even allowed to help keep the #s up by incubating the found eggs here. Go to other sections to read about incubating eggs of Russians, Leos or Greeks you won't find it in DT section.


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## armandoarturo

*RE: Dessert Tortoise eggs.*

I know!... its terrible!.. I remember my dad told me peopple ate them and discard the sac away. :S

I've been looking around the others section... but none of them answer my questions....:

how should it look now that they are like 35 - 36 days old?
how long does it takes for an infertile egg or died embryo egg to go rotten?
do infertile eggs chalk out? ...(because mines look sort of chalked out)

As I said I uploaded the egg pictures 
cecylio.blogspot.com


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## armandoarturo

*RE: Dessert Tortoise eggs.*

hmmm
is anyone alive that could answer my questions?


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## Laura

*RE: Dessert Tortoise eggs.*

Keep them until they explode.. that what some people do.. 
There are a few people here that could answer.. but they must be on vacation... patience...


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## armandoarturo

*RE: Dessert Tortoise eggs.*



Laura said:


> Keep them until they explode.. that what some people do..
> There are a few people here that could answer.. but they must be on vacation... patience...



do you how long does it usually takes for them to explode?


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## Tortuga_terrestre

*RE: Dessert Tortoise eggs.*



armandoarturo said:


> Laura said:
> 
> 
> 
> Keep them until they explode.. that what some people do..
> There are a few people here that could answer.. but they must be on vacation... patience...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> do you how long does it usually takes for them to explode?
Click to expand...


Suerte! people usually answer threads from people they recognize..Trust me..its does gets frustrating. You are so fortunate to have a pair of Desert Tortoises. I'm having a hard time obtaining one...


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## Yvonne G

*RE: Dessert Tortoise eggs.*

I'm going to hi-jack Armando's thread for just a minute:

Tortuga_Terrestre:

Living in Southern Calif, I'm really surprised to read what You've said. There are several chapters of the California Turtle & Tortoise club in SoCal and they usually ALWAYS have desert tortoises that are looking for homes. Put yourself on their adoption lists and you'll get one, I'm sure! You just have to have a nice, safe yard for a tortoise.

http://www.tortoise.org/cttcmemb.html

Sorry Armando!


On the egg subject. It depends upon if there's just gas growing inside the egg,or if there's rotten matter. The gas will explode quicker than the rotten stuff. Usually around 4 or 5 months. I've never really timed it.


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## armandoarturo

*RE: Dessert Tortoise eggs.*



emysemys said:


> I'm going to hi-jack Armando's thread for just a minute:
> 
> Tortuga_Terrestre:
> 
> Living in Southern Calif, I'm really surprised to read what You've said. There are several chapters of the California Turtle & Tortoise club in SoCal and they usually ALWAYS have desert tortoises that are looking for homes. Put yourself on their adoption lists and you'll get one, I'm sure! You just have to have a nice, safe yard for a tortoise.
> 
> http://www.tortoise.org/cttcmemb.html
> 
> Sorry Armando!
> 
> 
> On the egg subject. It depends upon if there's just gas growing inside the egg,or if there's rotten matter. The gas will explode quicker than the rotten stuff. Usually around 4 or 5 months. I've never really timed it.



Alright...=) thank you x)
did you have a look to my eggs? .. 
what do you think? 
do they look fertile?


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## armandoarturo

*RE: Dessert Tortoise eggs.*

hey everyone!!! 
some little fellas are making it!!! 


















This is the first one... looks like soon there will be another 3 more out!!
2 of were not fertile, 2 looks like they just didnt make it, and 4 were fertile!  I'm excited!!


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## Jacqui

*RE: Dessert Tortoise eggs.*

 I am excited along with you! Sweet!


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## armandoarturo

*RE: Dessert Tortoise eggs.*

Sad news =/
4 eggs out of the clutch of 8 eggs were fertile.
1 did hatch. The other 3 didn't make it.
I found a vett, and came today to have a look at the eggs.
(This because I saw a lot of movement last week on one of them, and suddenly it stopped).
He gave me bad news, they were dead =(
He is not an expert on tortoises, so he couldn't really tell me what happened.
He carfeully opened one egg, and a completely formed hatchling was inside, but dead =(, it looked like the eyes had disappeared.... 
Isn't this sad? He told me that the other eggs were in the same condition. =/
He didn't opened them tough because I didn't wanted.
I know I cant blame myself for this, because it wasn't really in my hands, this eggs were not good handled by the first owner, and since the begining i knew something like this was going to happen. But I just feel so sad =(
At least one did make it =(
I guess im just going to let them in there one or two weeks more, and after that I will just softly burry them somewhere in the yard.
*sigh*


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## Laura

*RE: Dessert Tortoise eggs.*

Where they too dry? or not warm enough?
How is the one that did make it doing?
Cant blame yourself.. but try to learn from it all..


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## armandoarturo

*RE: Dessert Tortoise eggs.*

No, they weren't too dry.. and they were warm enough. Not as good as an incubator, but instead they were in a warm shaded place outside, in a place where my females usually lay their eggs.
I sure did learn a lot, and I know that its not exactly my fault, as they were handled very bad with the first owner... but next time I will be prepared.
Its also the first clutch of this female, So that adds more reasons, also it seems that she kept the eggs inside for longer time, because there was no soil in her past enclosure.
Actually she laid them over the floor :S
I was testing a broken egg, and the shell its well to hardened :S
oh well... I tried my best. 
The little hatchling its doing just fine ... not eating too much, but thats understandable... thanks for asking
IÃ‚Â´ve raised hatchlings before...  and this little one looks very healthy!


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## HarleyK

*RE: Dessert Tortoise eggs.*

At least you were able to save 1, great job. You were very lucky to rear those eggs and have them in your possession.


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## Yvonne G

*RE: Dessert Tortoise eggs.*

Yeah...like Harley said. Look on the bright side. You now have a beautiful brand new baby desert tortoise!!

This is called DIS, or dead in the shell. In birds it is usually because the baby was too weak to be able to break out of the egg and the egg was too dry and tough for the baby to break through the membrane. 

If you get more eggs next year, when they are ready to hatch be sure to keep the ground moistened. Not wet, but moistened.


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## moswen

*RE: Dessert Tortoise eggs.*

well, considering the topic of conversation on this thread, this may be inappropriate, but desert is spelled with one "S", i thought this was a thread about an edible sweet dessert that looked like a tortoise egg... lol, i guess i wasn't that far off the mark! ... had to stop reading though, i can't handle the eating live animals stuff.


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