# Hermann growth rate



## MarkB (Apr 15, 2014)

Hi, I'm concerned about my torts growth, and after several hours googling to no avail I'm asking for opinions from here please.
Last May 2013 I bought two Testudo Hermannis, according to the DEFRA certs (I'm in the UK thats a EURO certification) these two were hatched in 2010 although the certificate issue date is Nov 2013.

When I first saw them I thought they looked a little small for approx 3 yrs old, however their weight/length fitted the Jacksons graph. For the remainder of that year, up until mid Nov when they started to slow down for hibernation ( these torts are kept both in and outdoors ) they gained weight however did not grow in shell length. They were still within Jacksons graph guidelines, so I hibernated them properly. 

Early March they awoke from hibernation and have been eating like troopers both are now above pre-hibernation weight as of 15 April 2014, yet however the shell has not grown even a millimeter since I got them last May.

They are virtually identical in sizes; 135 grams x 8cms but surely for 4yr olds this is too small - comments please?

Their diet is fine, and I'm not going to list what they eat as one sure thing is not one forum or book can agree what is good or bad. Suffice to say they eat what they should; high fibre, low protein, weeds and appropriate leafy varieties. I do not feed them anything not naturally found if in their wild environment with the exception of ground calcium 3 or 4 times a week mixed with food.

Thanks in advance for your comments.

Mark


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## Yvonne G (Apr 15, 2014)

Hi Mark, and welcome to the Forum! I keep a variety of different tortoises and there's just no way I can learn all about native tortoise foods, so I use grocery store greens and whatever types of plants will grow in my geographical area. My tortoises are none the worse for it. In my opinion, there's nothing wrong with going outside the box food-wise.

Lots of folks in the UK will feed their tortoises Komodo Dragon pellets, or some of the packaged salads like Rocket and APS. Using these foods along with whatever edible weeds and grasses you have available will offer your tortoises more variety in their diet. We have an excellent Hermanns care sheet at the top of the Hermanns section.


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## MarkB (Apr 15, 2014)

Hi Yvonne, what you described is pretty much the diet of mine. My concern though is with their physical size given what Im told is their age.


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## Yvonne G (Apr 15, 2014)

I have experience with a couple YF tortoises that got a poor start. So I can speak about my experience, but I don't know if it applies to your tortoises. 

I hatched out 3 YF eggs several years ago (before I knew about the benefits of moisture in their lives). I kept the three together in a tort table with orchid bark substrate that I moistened occasionally, but it really wasn't a humid environment. One of the three grew fast and big, the other two stayed small. When the biggest one was big enough to move outside, he went and the other two stayed in the tort table. 

They are deformed and small, and their tails have been bitten off.

In my tortoises' case I'm pretty sure their non-growth is due to being bullied by the larger tortoise and from living in a dry environment. They have stayed the same size now for a couple of years, and I doubt they will ever grow to a normal size. For the past year they have been kept properly, with the humidity/moisture, low light and correct temperatures, but no growth, even though they eat well.

You can try different things to see if you can put growth on them, but only try one thing at a time so you can figure out what worked...

separate them
add a higher grade of UVB light
give them a humid hide
keep food in front of them at all times
move them out in the real sunshine any time its feasible
add vitamins to their food
try things like Repashy over their food
add the 'fruit-type' veggies to the diet (zucchini, bell pepper, veggies with seeds are really fruits)

It will probably take a long time for you to see any difference, and this is more than likely going to be a life-long project for you, as it is with me and my YF tortoises.


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## MarkB (Apr 15, 2014)

I've just read the care sheet you mentioned, which may I add was excellent, and your post Yvonne has basically confirmed my thoughts that perhaps I should stop worrying.

My concern was born from after acquiring the pair I'd heard dubious comments about the breeder, that coupled with the certificates just stating generically Testudo Hermanni, without being further specific, however the Country or Origin is listed as Macedonia making them Eastern Hermanni. All this drew me to the conclusion that for 4yrs old, or 3, when I got them, they were too small. You're also right I have no idea how they were kept previously, which could be an indicator.

With your comments and the care sheet from here I've concluded to carry on as I am, experiment a little with higher UVB & vitamins as you described etc, but primarily not to worry as the pair of them seem content, they eat and are certainly active so hopefully if nothing else now they are getting the best care possible.

Thanks again Yvonne.

Regards

Mark


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