# OH NO A HYBRID!



## N2TORTS (Oct 23, 2011)

Regardless of the negitive and "know it all's " opinions...I still think these are ultra cool ....Yes a True Hybrid ' ...
Lepracuttas~ ( mother was a sullie and pops a leo ) produced from a friend of mine , who I have owned since hatchlin's. The development has been an awesome experience watching the changes take place..... , and of course all the "silly" debates and "pokes" in here when I choose to share them . Also what I find interesting is the folks who make comments and make these out to be so common and no big deal ( after they slam the idea of them ) ...if thats the case I would love to see those " tons of them out there " pictures or documentation about them . In the 30 yrs + I have owned torts and just about any herp you can name .....I have only seen these twice.
Guess I like to be different......




























JD~


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## dmarcus (Oct 23, 2011)

I think they are awesome as well and would jump at the opportunity to have one, 1 of these years... They are looking good JD...


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## Neal (Oct 23, 2011)

GROSS!!!!

Just kidding, the only issue I have JD is that they look more like sulcatas than leopards...otherwise I would say they are cool. Next time try to get some hybrids that look more like leopards.


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## ewam (Oct 23, 2011)

I don't like the color of the sulcata mixed with the leopard color, they kinda clash if you know what i mean. It would look cool if it was an ivory sulcata and a leopard. That thing would have some nice colors.


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## Watermelon (Oct 23, 2011)

They still look gorgeous even if they are hybrids!


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## african cake queen (Oct 23, 2011)

I THINK THEY ARE VERY CUTE. I LOVE THEM.


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## CtTortoiseMom (Oct 23, 2011)

My two favorite tortoises represented in one! What could be wrong with that? Was the Pop's babcocki?


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## cemmons12 (Oct 23, 2011)

I think they are VERY cute! Even tho some don't agree with the mixing of the 2, they make very cute babies!


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## ALDABRAMAN (Oct 23, 2011)




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## Torty Mom (Oct 23, 2011)

They are sooo cute, I am looking forward to watching them grow!


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## MarkE (Oct 23, 2011)

It's like Jungle Love....


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## N2TORTS (Oct 23, 2011)

CtTortoiseMom said:


> My two favorite tortoises represented in one! What could be wrong with that? Was the Pop's babcocki?



CT.....actually the pops is belived to be a P.P....
Here is the actual parents in action








JD~


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## fbsmith3 (Oct 23, 2011)

Oh my goodness tortoise porn. Something about this picture strikes me as very very funny. 
Need to use this picture for the Calendar for April. The expression on Papa is priceless,, maybe February?

I don't belive in cross breeding, but the tortoises are beautiful.


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## terryo (Oct 23, 2011)

I agree! That is one funny picture. I wonder how big they'll get.


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## pdrobber (Oct 23, 2011)

lol Not gonna lie, I never even realized you have bred hybrids...just thought you were calling them interesting names...


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## Maggie Cummings (Oct 23, 2011)

The only difference I see is the shape of the carapace. It's high domed like the Leopard, but other than that it's a Sulcata. The Mom is especially gorgeous tho...


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## DixieParadise (Oct 23, 2011)

AMAZING and AWESOME. I cannot get enough of the pictures of your hybrids. Thanks again for sharing.


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## N2TORTS (Oct 24, 2011)

maggie3fan said:


> The only difference I see is the shape of the carapace. It's high domed like the Leopard, but other than that it's a Sulcata. The Mom is especially gorgeous tho...



Well Maggie true , although one of them has a much different shaped head than other sullies . its more leo shaped. Also the retention of the spots is different than most sullies as well as the black freckled skin ( not pictured) ..... ya look one time I see sullie .. glance again from different view I see leo. Part of the fun in owning them , watching the development from day 1.....

JD~



pdrobber said:


> lol Not gonna lie, I never even realized you have bred hybrids...just thought you were calling them interesting names...



ha ha Pete .....


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## jbean7916 (Oct 24, 2011)

What is the typical adult size for this hybrid?


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## jackrat (Oct 24, 2011)

Definately something you don't see everyday.


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## 81SHOVELHEAD (Oct 24, 2011)

Well JD i am not one to slam anyone on here & i think those are some awsome Hybrids..I like the colors. Can't wait to see what they will look like in 5 yrs...
Wondering if i will me able to get my Burmese Browns to breed with My Northern REDFOOTS...UMMMMM that would be awsome.
Mike D.


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## JLSchmittou (Oct 24, 2011)

They are REALLY beautiful in coloring!! Wow. It will be fun to see how they develop!!! Gorgeous!! Hybrid, whatever, tell that to my schnoodle..


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## GeoTerraTestudo (Oct 24, 2011)

Probably infertile.


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## Madkins007 (Oct 24, 2011)

JLSchmittou said:


> They are REALLY beautiful in coloring!! Wow. It will be fun to see how they develop!!! Gorgeous!! Hybrid, whatever, tell that to my schnoodle..



Just to clarify something- crossing dog breeds is not the same thing as crossing species, or even sub-species of tortoises since all domestic dogs are the same sub-species. 

Leopard tortoises (_Stigmochelys pardalis_) and Sulcatas ([Geochelone sulcata[/i]) represent two different genera, although they used to both be in the _Geochelone_. 

Domestic dogs are a subspecies of wolf* (_Canus lupus familieris_), so not even a dog and wolf cross would be the same thing. A more accurate crossing would be a domestic dog with something like the African Wild Dog (_Lycaon pictus_)- different Genus, same Family.

(*- this is not universally agreed on, but has some pretty solid evidence. Source:
Wozencraft, W. Christopher. "Order Carnivora". In Wilson, Don E., and Reeder, DeeAnn M., eds. Mammal Species of the World: A Taxonomic and Geographic Reference (3rd ed.). Baltimore: Johns Hopkins University Press)



IF (and it is a big 'if') the placement of Leopards and Sulcatas in different genera is correct, then the offspring would most likely be infertile. In fact, this is one of the way that genus, species, and subspecies are traditionally defined- reproductive success and persistent characteristics.


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## EricIvins (Oct 24, 2011)

GeoTerraTestudo said:


> Probably infertile.



Famous last words........

I have to laugh at how many times I've heard that, and how many times it has been proven wrong.......These aren't Mammals.......


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## Doritoinmontucky (Oct 24, 2011)

They are incredibly interesting. I am curious to see the growth and development of these cute little guys/galls. thanks for sharing them!

-Derrik


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## DeanS (Oct 24, 2011)

Very nice! I can't help but notice how much of a leopard head they have...and, of course, the sully shell! And DAMN! You sure do keep them well! Absolute poster children for the breed!


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## GeoTerraTestudo (Oct 24, 2011)

Madkins007 said:


> JLSchmittou said:
> 
> 
> > They are REALLY beautiful in coloring!! Wow. It will be fun to see how they develop!!! Gorgeous!! Hybrid, whatever, tell that to my schnoodle..
> ...



Good post. Yes, a "lepracutta" is not so much like a schnoodle, as it is like a mule. Schnoodles, like all varieties of wolf, are completely fertile. Mules, being half horse-half donkey, are almost always sterile.

Of course, mules happen to also be otherwise very healthy, despite the infertility. That's probably because horses and donkeys are still fairly closely related. Other hybrids of more distantly related animals (like African and Asian elephants, for example) are very unhealthy and die very young.

Too soon to know what's going to happen with these "lepracuttas." So far they seem pretty healthy, but they may nevertheless turn out to be sterile.






EricIvins said:


> GeoTerraTestudo said:
> 
> 
> > Probably infertile.
> ...



They're not last words yet, mate. Let's check again in 5-10 years (assuming they survive, as many distant hybrids have health problems), after these guys would be reaching sexual maturity, and check then.


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## N2TORTS (Oct 24, 2011)

Thanks for all the positive vibes ....we shall see ( and Eric I have to agree with you  ) ... bottom line is other than for science/educational purpose I really havnt made plans to breed them . Like I mentioned before some have made these out to be a dime a dozen .... if so , I would like to see more info about them . Untill then .... we will have to wait and see ... ( and buy my book of course ~ ) ..... <~~~ juss joking.... anyhow thought I would share some other highlites among them ~ enjoy












Happy Tort~N 

JD~

PS .... Madman ... you always write well and very knowledgable A+ Sir.
Who ever made the comment about them dying young because there hybrids...are you kidding? Have you ever bred anything else ? Snakes , lizards, birds ? ... The dont die young unless there is bad genes to begin with it has nothing to do with a hybrid/cross. Plus I dont live in Arkansas..... 

Dean .. the " sullie " master ... thanks for hip comment !


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## Weda737 (Oct 24, 2011)

Haters gonna hate, But I see nothing wrong with the hybrids in this case, there doesn't seem to be such a dramatic difference in the species that it would affect the well being of the animals. Frankly, if you want to be anal about animal breeding, look at all the dog breeds that have serious health issues, tiny toy purse dogs with floating kneecaps, heavy big dogs with hip displasia, even the shar pei, skin issues and many need surgery to get the skin out of their eyes. Why do we breed these things? For our pleasure, cute to look at etc. Hybrids such as this shouldn't be a problem in the hands of good keepers. I'm getting off my soapbox now before I fall through it. Keep us updated on their personalities, I hear leopards are more docile and shy than sulcatas, I wonder how these are gonna turn out.


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## ALDABRAMAN (Oct 24, 2011)

JD, When I grow up I want to be like you, I see your passion!


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## froghaven5 (Oct 25, 2011)

I like em! Really growing up nice. As far as crossing. A muscovy duck will mate with any duck(mallard descent) and will produce mules but healthy however if a chicken crosses with guinea fowl (which they will and make odd looking creatures) they are not usually too healthy and die young. I guess what I'm saying is you won't know unless a problem arise, but so far they look really healthy.


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## GeoTerraTestudo (Oct 25, 2011)

Weda737 said:


> Frankly, if you want to be anal about animal breeding, look at all the dog breeds that have serious health issues, tiny toy purse dogs with floating kneecaps, heavy big dogs with hip displasia, even the shar pei, skin issues and many need surgery to get the skin out of their eyes. Why do we breed these things? For our pleasure, cute to look at etc.



I regularly condemn poor breeding practices in dogs as well. I don't think we should perpetuate highly altered breeds, either.


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## wildak (Oct 27, 2011)

Very nice. I can see benefits to cross breeding . Learning what species can cross and reproduce could save species in the very near future. Like if there's only a handfull of a type of tortoise you could then cross it to another species and after several generations and many years later have a whole new bloodline that's a pure blood.
If you have one extremely rare male tortoise you could possibly breed it to an endless amount of females of another species.
I want to see a Saddleback Galapagoes/ Radiated cross. LOL


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## GeoTerraTestudo (Oct 27, 2011)

wildak said:


> Very nice. I can see benefits to cross breeding . Learning what species can cross and reproduce could save species in the very near future. Like if there's only a handfull of a type of tortoise you could then cross it to another species and after several generations and many years later have a whole new bloodline that's a pure blood.
> If you have one extremely rare male tortoise you could possibly breed it to an endless amount of females of another species.
> I want to see a Saddleback Galapagoes/ Radiated cross. LOL



Relevant thread: "Hybrid?"


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## Malorey (Oct 28, 2011)

I am one out of the loop with the breeding of 'Hybrids', so will have to look into it to see the debates on it. (I'm also in to ...view... a good debate, LOL.) 

Your two are good looking Tortoise!  Can't wait to see more of them. I too, love the parents as well.


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## Gmoney (Oct 28, 2011)

Nay sayers will be what they are. I'd like to see any possible hybrid, they're off the chain!


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