# New Stack of Animal Plastics CLosed Chambers



## Tom

AKA: Tom's baby emporium.

@GStars asked for a pic on my new baby raising enclosures the other day. I only had a partial, but I took a fuller one today.

Each cage is 96x30 and divided in the middle into two 48x30 cages for starting babies. The colored tape on each upper right corner shows the number of babies in each enclosure and also corresponds to the soaking tubs that rest on top of the cages. I've got stars on top, sulcatas in the middle and SA leopards on the bottom.


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## Nrc470

That’s a awesome setup Tom.


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## jjaymeza

Tom said:


> AKA: Tom's baby emporium.
> 
> @GStars asked for a pic on my new baby raising enclosures the other day. I only had a partial, but I took a fuller one today.
> 
> Each cage is 96x30 and divided in the middle into two 48x30 cages for starting babies. The colored tape on each upper right corner shows the number of babies in each enclosure and also corresponds to the soaking tubs that rest on top of the cages. I've got stars on top, sulcatas in the middle and SA leopards on the bottom.
> View attachment 236407
> 
> 
> View attachment 236413
> 
> 
> View attachment 236408
> 
> 
> View attachment 236409
> 
> 
> View attachment 236412



They look so happy how beautiful!


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## Lark_Tortoise

Amazing set-up and adorable babies!


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## Tom

Nrc470 said:


> That’s a awesome setup Tom.


Thank you.


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## Yvonne G

I love those enclosures! I will soon be able to retire my plastic film covered baby tubs. The baby enclosure fairy is bringing me a nice closed chamber next time he visits


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## Tom

Yvonne G said:


> I love those enclosures! I will soon be able to retire my plastic film covered baby tubs. The baby enclosure fairy is bringing me a nice closed chamber next time he visits


I think I've met that baby enclosure fairy a time or two…


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## Markw84

@Tom Really like how these came out. 

Did you use their standard 2 - 20" fluorescent fixture addition? Is that a double fixture?
Did they add the incandescent fixture? I think you are running a standard 35 watt bulb?
I don't see a CHE or heat source? Did they add two incadescent fixt to ea. side?
Do you notice much heat transfer to the top cages from the cage below? Do the upper cages run warmer, especially when the lights are on?

After using them a while, is there anything you would change?


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## MrMarg&me

Very professional, organized and neat.


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## Tom

Markw84 said:


> @Tom Really like how these came out.
> 
> Did you use their standard 2 - 20" fluorescent fixture addition? Is that a double fixture?
> Did they add the incandescent fixture? I think you are running a standard 35 watt bulb?
> I don't see a CHE or heat source? Did they add two incadescent fixt to ea. side?
> Do you notice much heat transfer to the top cages from the cage below? Do the upper cages run warmer, especially when the lights are on?
> 
> After using them a while, is there anything you would change?



I had them install an incandescent fixture on each side of each enclosure. They cut channels for the wires on the top of the cage and everything sits flush without having the wires inside. Its a really neat feature they offer. There are many little details like this that show the true attention to detail and quality that this company offers. Every element of the design is well thought out and well executed.

I went with LEDs instead of florescent bulbs. Florescent bulbs would probably over heat the whole thing. These cages have very good insulation properties. Its already 80 in the reptile room and these cages get into the 90s with just the little incandescent bulbs.

I tried my usual 65 watt floods and they were way too hot. Went down to 45 floods and still made a basking spot of 122. Tried a 39 watt, but it was a spot and it made the basking area 140. Ended up using a regular round bulb that is 43 watts, but says it makes the light equivalent of 60 watts. We had a warm spell last week with daily highs in the low to mid 90s outside and the reptile room got pretty warm. I decided to install thermostats on the basking bulbs. Now the basking bulbs cut off if ambient gets over 95-96, but the LEDs stay on their timer.

No need for a CHE or RHP to maintain ambient since the whole room is kept at 80 or higher 24/7/365.

No need for UV since all my babies get real sunshine 3-4 times a week minimum.

The upper cages are warmer, but I think it is due more to the temp gradient of the room than heat transfer from below. The bottom of one cage plus the top of the one under it creates a 1" PVC insulation barrier between cages. I'll do an experiment with three thermometers of the same type at three levels in the room and see what we get. This is how I decided which species would go where. Stars on top since they like it so hot, sulcatas in the middle, and SA leopards on bottom. In reality, all of them run about the same temp with the same basking lamp set up in each.

Regardless of how any of this explanation sounds, the proof is in the pudding. The babies are thriving in there. Appetites are huge, growth rate is good, and the leopards, who have been in there the longest are the smoothest leopards I've ever grown. Sulcatas have only been in for a few days and stars went in last week, but I expect the same results from them.

The only thing I would change is adding more of these cages. I've got three more ordered already!


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## SULCY

As always very nice and well thought out.


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## G-stars

I’m convinced @Tom, I’m definitely getting a few of these. Does the middle divider come out if you wanted to or is it permanent?


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## Tom

G-stars said:


> I’m convinced @Tom, I’m definitely getting a few of these. Does the middle divider come out if you wanted to or is it permanent?


The middle divider is something I added with some coroplast and some button head self-tappers. On the big cages, all of them come with the center arch way for support, but the floor is open all the way through.


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## MichaelaW

I love it! Dreaming of Animal Plastics filled with little forstenii.


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## Salspi

Tom Is that one unit or is that three units stacked up?


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## Tom

Salspi said:


> Tom Is that one unit or is that three units stacked up?


That is three of their T65 cages stacked up. They have little metal pins that you can use to keep them perfectly aligned like that.


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## Erik Elvis

I really like them cages. How long do you think a baby leopard would be ok in the 96x30?


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## Erik Elvis

Ask what options did you get. Interested in knowing how you did your heat/lights


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## Erik Elvis

Sorry I somehow missed your explanation further up. What would you recommend if just getting a single cage? I would like the LED lights and fluorescents but not sure what to do about heat. 

Also do you thinks you could get 3 years of use out of a 96x36x24?


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## Tom

Erik Elvis said:


> Sorry I somehow missed your explanation further up. What would you recommend if just getting a single cage? I would like the LED lights and fluorescents but not sure what to do about heat.
> 
> Also do you thinks you could get 3 years of use out of a 96x36x24?


Growth rates will vary based on many factors, so its impossible to predict how long it will last an individual baby. I'd estimate 2-4 years in most cases.

Best way to heat one of these in a normal house would be a couple of RHPs set on a thermostat to maintain ambient, and a basking bulb to heat up the enclosure during the day. I added the LEDs myself. Bought some under cabinet countertop lighting unit for less than $20 each at Lowes.


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## SteveW

What is your take on the LEDs? I’ve been playing around with a couple of these for about a year 



Like them so far.


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## Erik Elvis

Yeah didn’t think of the RHP. So maybe get 4 30” flourescent fixtures an incandescent on each side and 2 RHP?


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## Longhorns1187

Now I know why my 2 cages are taking so long to finish building...lol. Looks great, Tom!


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## Erik Elvis

Does around $200 shipping seem about right?


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## Salspi

Tom said:


> That is three of their T65 cages stacked up. They have little metal pins that you can use to keep them perfectly aligned like that.



Cool setup man


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## Tom

Erik Elvis said:


> Does around $200 shipping seem about right?


For what size? If its a big one, then yes. The larger cages are shipped as freight. I paid $300+ to have my stack of three delivered. Worth every penny and then some.


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## Tom

Erik Elvis said:


> Yeah didn’t think of the RHP. So maybe get 4 30” flourescent fixtures an incandescent on each side and 2 RHP?


That will generate a lot of heat.


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## Tom

SteveW said:


> What is your take on the LEDs? I’ve been playing around with a couple of these for about a year
> 
> Like them so far.



I've never used the "reptile" ones. I bought the under-cabinet mounted counter top LEDs for these new cages and I love them. Very bright. Very energy efficient. Don't generate much heat at all. And they were $18 each. Had to wire them myself, but that was easy.


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## th3star

Beautiful babies


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## Diamond

Tom,
Are you going to be selling any of those babies?


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## Burt0405

Where did you buy these from?? Awesome set up!


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## Nrc470

He bought the closed chambers from animal plastics.


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## Longhorns1187

apcages.com Located in Des Moines, Iowa.


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## Ghazan

Do you use anything on the bottom of the AP cages? I was thinking of putting a piece of plastic down but not sure if it's needed. Will be easier to clean I think in the future?


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## Tom

Diamond said:


> Tom,
> Are you going to be selling any of those babies?


Yes. All of them. Which do you want?


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## Tom

Ghazan said:


> Do you use anything on the bottom of the AP cages? I was thinking of putting a piece of plastic down but not sure if it's needed. Will be easier to clean I think in the future?


No. I just put the o bark directly into them. I use a dust pan to remove it when needed, but that is not very often.


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## kcrisci

Hate to come late to the party.... but can you give me the name of these cages and where to buy them? I looked through the thread, and couldn't find.
I need three desperately now.... thank you~


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## Nrc470

Animal plastics


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## Nrc470

The cages are t65 from animal plastics


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## Tom

kcrisci said:


> Hate to come late to the party.... but can you give me the name of these cages and where to buy them? I looked through the thread, and couldn't find.
> I need three desperately now.... thank you~


https://apcages.com/collections/terrestrial-cages

It takes 3-4 months to get them. Anyone reading this who is thinking of getting these should plan ahead. They make a very precise, very high quality product. They refuse to compromise on quality to make it happen faster to fill more orders. Having to wait is a bummer, but receiving a perfectly made cage that goes together easily and works great is worth the wait to me. I wish I could get them faster, but not at the expense of quality.


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## kcrisci

thank you~


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## Longhorns1187

Going to be picking up our 2 enclosures tomorrow. I'll try to post some pics afterwards. 

Tom is correct...definitely plan ahead. We gave ourselves a 6 month buffer and it'll be just shy of that timetable tomorrow. 

Ali is awesome to work with though and you hardly ever read bad reviews about their products.


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## Salspi

Longhorns1187 said:


> Going to be picking up our 2 enclosures tomorrow. I'll try to post some pics afterwards.
> 
> Tom is correct...definitely plan ahead. We gave ourselves a 6 month buffer and it'll be just shy of that timetable tomorrow.
> 
> Ali is awesome to work with though and you hardly ever read bad reviews about their products.



Congrats! I’m sure you’re excited...


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## Diamond

Tom said:


> Yes. All of them. Which do you want?[/QUO
> One of the stars.


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## Diamond

Tom said:


> Yes. All of them. Which do you want?


A star bay.


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## Tom

Diamond said:


> A star bay.


I'm going to keep them another couple of weeks and then the first batch should be ready for sale. Some of them are already over 40 grams! That's more than double their hatch weight. And I have so many weeds up right now that I haven't even fed them Mazuri one time yet...


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## Diamond

Tom said:


> I'm going to keep them another couple of weeks and then the first batch should be ready for sale. Some of them are already over 40 grams! That's more than double their hatch weight. And I have so many weeds up right now that I haven't even fed them Mazuri one time yet...


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## Diamond

Ok, keep me posted. My Hermani and Russian have grown nicely on weeds, flowers and dandelion. I'm always trying to grow food in the garden for them, They both have done nicely.


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## AJK Aquaria

Looks fantastic Tom. A couple questions...

The visual barriers at the bottom front- is that your addition, or did AP provide that?

How deep is the cage for substrate? I own 4) 4x2' cages. The worst part is losing substrate all over the floor when I open them.

Thanks in advance.


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## Longhorns1187

AJK Aquaria said:


> Looks fantastic Tom. A couple questions...
> 
> The visual barriers at the bottom front- is that your addition, or did AP provide that?
> 
> How deep is the cage for substrate? I own 4) 4x2' cages. The worst part is losing substrate all over the floor when I open them.
> 
> Thanks in advance.


You can customize the "litter dam" to be whatever depth you want. No extra charge for that. [emoji106] We did 2 different depths for our 2 enclosures. I would have made it deeper if I had a chance to do it over again, especially since ours are 24" tall cages. I like Tom's idea of using it as a visual barrier.


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## Tom

AJK Aquaria said:


> Looks fantastic Tom. A couple questions...
> 
> The visual barriers at the bottom front- is that your addition, or did AP provide that?
> 
> How deep is the cage for substrate? I own 4) 4x2' cages. The worst part is losing substrate all over the floor when I open them.
> 
> Thanks in advance.



When I did the order, Ali, the customer service rep explained all the options and asked me what I preferred. They call those visual barriers "litter dams" and I asked for them to be 6" tall since I use 3-4" of substrate. An added benefit is that I can walk away with the sliding glass door open and the baby tortoises can't climb or fall out.

The customer service there is great and they really know their products. Each cage is really a custom job with all the available option and people can make them suitable for just about anything.


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## AJK Aquaria

Thanks guys.

When I ordered mine years ago I wasn't given that option. Didn't ask, though. Is their website still designed like it wad launched in 2001, lol? I remember Ali. A professional.


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## Longhorns1187

AJK Aquaria said:


> Thanks guys.
> 
> When I ordered mine years ago I wasn't given that option. Didn't ask, though. Is their website still designed like it wad launched in 2001, lol? I remember Ali. A professional.


It has been recently updated, but it's still not the best around. I don't think they have everything on it quite yet either, so it's still better to just call and talk to Ali directly, IMHO.


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## daniellenc

I’ve been eyeing their 8 ft cage for next year but am hesitant wondering if it will be big enough for a full grown red foot?


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## Tom

Longhorns1187 said:


> It has been recently updated, but it's still not the best around. I don't think they have everything on it quite yet either, so it's still better to just call and talk to Ali directly, IMHO.


Not addressing you personally, just talking about the website and business in general.

Some business people are very good at marketing and putting on a good show. We see this with tortoise sellers all day long. Doesn't mean the product or service is good, and often it is not.

Other business people make a top of the line high quality product and don't care about marketing, websites or taking over the whole world and making billions of dollars. I'd rather deal with the company that sucks at marketing, but offers an excellent product at a fair price.

Just saying for the sake of conversation...


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## AJK Aquaria

Well said Tom. Any specialized and customisable product or livestock really should not have an 'add to cart' feature. I did start with the website joke, but it is useable. Hope i didn't ruffle any feathers.

For those of you looking to order from AP and possibly turned off a bit on shipping costs, they do offer the option of bringing your cages to reptile shows/swaps. It will not necessarily expedite your order, but a nice option they provide. The NARBC tour lands here in March and October, and they do attend that in certain areas of the country. Or at least they did back when I ordered mine. An opportunity to meet up with them and see their booth. I have 1 of their snake racks as well. It's a quality product.


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## Longhorns1187

Tom said:


> Not addressing you personally, just talking about the website and business in general.
> 
> Some business people are very good at marketing and putting on a good show. We see this with tortoise sellers all day long. Doesn't mean the product or service is good, and often it is not.
> 
> Other business people make a top of the line high quality product and don't care about marketing, websites or taking over the whole world and making billions of dollars. I'd rather deal with the company that sucks at marketing, but offers an excellent product at a fair price.
> 
> Just saying for the sake of conversation...


Absolutely. Couldn't agree more. I literally scoured the internet for months reading reviews on different cage manufacturers and AP consistantly came up as the best around. I love the way my cages turned out and there is no one else that would've customized them the way AP did, for free. Installing all the lights I sent and routing all the cords the way they did, is pretty remarkable. They've got a customer for life in us and I won't hesitate to recommend them to anybody who asks. I just need more space to put more cages...lol.


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## Erik Elvis

Just put an order In For a T70. Still not sure what I want to do for the lighting. But she said it’s ok to put the order in now and work on the lighting as we wait for it to be built. They’re estimating 10-12 weeks.


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## Rodrigo

Tom said:


> AKA: Tom's baby emporium.
> 
> @GStars asked for a pic on my new baby raising enclosures the other day. I only had a partial, but I took a fuller one today.
> 
> Each cage is 96x30 and divided in the middle into two 48x30 cages for starting babies. The colored tape on each upper right corner shows the number of babies in each enclosure and also corresponds to the soaking tubs that rest on top of the cages. I've got stars on top, sulcatas in the middle and SA leopards on the bottom.
> View attachment 236407
> 
> 
> View attachment 236413
> 
> 
> View attachment 236408
> 
> 
> View attachment 236409
> 
> 
> View attachment 236412


What type of bedding is that?


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## katieandiggy

Rodrigo said:


> What type of bedding is that?



That looks like fine grade orchid bark. I use the same thing.


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## Tom

Rodrigo said:


> What type of bedding is that?


Fine grade orchid bark. $10 for 2.0 cubic feet.


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## Ghazan

Did you guys have left over screws from your AP cages? I have about 5 screws and swear I filled all the holes...


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## Tom

Ghazan said:


> Did you guys have left over screws from your AP cages? I have about 5 screws and swear I filled all the holes...


Yes. I had 5 per cage, so a whole bunch for me. How fantastic is it that they send that many extras? They really are a top notch company. They pay attention to the little details that really make a difference.


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## Erik Elvis

Do you think an Arcadia 12% at 20 or so inches would be ok to leave on all day? Or do you still recommend it being on only 4-5 hrs a day?


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## Yvonne G

People: Please remember that this is Tom's thread about HIS new closed chambers. If you have your own closed chambers to talk about, start your own thread. Questions for Tom here in this thread are perfectly fine.


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## Yvonne G

Tom said:


> AKA: Tom's baby emporium.
> 
> @GStars asked for a pic on my new baby raising enclosures the other day. I only had a partial, but I took a fuller one today.
> 
> Each cage is 96x30 and divided in the middle into two 48x30 cages for starting babies. The colored tape on each upper right corner shows the number of babies in each enclosure and also corresponds to the soaking tubs that rest on top of the cages. I've got stars on top, sulcatas in the middle and SA leopards on the bottom.
> View attachment 236407
> 
> 
> View attachment 236413
> 
> 
> View attachment 236408
> 
> 
> View attachment 236409
> 
> 
> View attachment 236412




They've made a great product. I love how they put an inner plastic lip (?) inside the glass doors to hold more substrate. Interesting to watch your closed chamber evolution.


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## Tom

Yvonne G said:


> People: Please remember that this is Tom's thread about HIS new closed chambers. If you have your own closed chambers to talk about, start your own thread. Questions for Tom here in this thread are perfectly fine.


Thank you for looking out for my thread, but I invite everyone to talk about their own experiences with AP cages here too. I am enjoying reading their thoughts and experiences with these great cages, and want to continue promoting a good product and sharing insights.


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## SteveW

I am thinking about a T65 (96x30x18) as a hatchling leopard home for 1-2 years and then a forever home for a star. (Both would have outside space too, of course). Does this sound doable or should I go bigger?


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## Shaif

Erik Elvis said:


> Just put an order In For a T70. Still not sure what I want to do for the lighting. But she said it’s ok to put the order in now and work on the lighting as we wait for it to be built. They’re estimating 10-


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## crimson_lotus

Do you think the largest size would be suitable for a 10 inch redfoot? I seriously need to get a new enclosure.

Tried emailing them maybe a month ago but never heard anything back. Guess I have to call.


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## Tom

SteveW said:


> I am thinking about a T65 (96x30x18) as a hatchling leopard home for 1-2 years and then a forever home for a star. (Both would have outside space too, of course). Does this sound doable or should I go bigger?


I think it will suit your purposes very well.


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## Tom

crimson_lotus said:


> Do you think the largest size would be suitable for a 10 inch redfoot? I seriously need to get a new enclosure.
> 
> Tried emailing them maybe a month ago but never heard anything back. Guess I have to call.


4x8' is pretty borderline for a 10" tortoise, in my opinion. I'd like to see a tortoise that size in something bigger, but some people keep them in cages even smaller than that.


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## Erik Elvis

In waiting for my AP cage to be built I think I’m talking myself into another one for my redfoots instead of building something new. They’re under 6” now so should get good use out of a 8ft long x 3 deep. 

How do they stack tom? If you did not get a trench run for your cables on top of the cage would it effect that? 

Also are the incandescent fixtures they install any way adjustable up and down?


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## Tom

Erik Elvis said:


> In waiting for my AP cage to be built I think I’m talking myself into another one for my redfoots instead of building something new. They’re under 6” now so should get good use out of a 8ft long x 3 deep.
> 
> How do they stack tom? If you did not get a trench run for your cables on top of the cage would it effect that?
> 
> Also are the incandescent fixtures they install any way adjustable up and down?



They line up perfectly and have little stainless steel pins that keep them aligned. If the cords are not in a channel, I run them along the ceiling and out the back.

Fixtures are not adjustable, but I bet something could be figured out. I just used different wattage bulbs, but a rheostat would work too.


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## Tom

Erik Elvis said:


> How do they stack tom? If you did not get a trench run for your cables on top of the cage would it effect that?


In the very first post on page one of this thread, you can see the cords for my LEDs running along the ceiling and going out through the vent area. I drilled a hole the same diameter as the cord on the edge of one of the vent slits, and passed the cord in that way. I had to wire these LED units myself, so it was easy to do it this way.


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## Erik Elvis

Oh ok thanks Tom. I still can’t decide what to do for lighting/heating yet in the cage. Keep changing my mind. Might just run 2 34” flourescent tubes for UVB. 2 RHP’s and run some LED’s like you for ambient light and just run the flourescents 6-8 hours.

Edit; oh and prob an incandescent fixture for a hot spot.


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## Tom

Erik Elvis said:


> Oh ok thanks Tom. I still can’t decide what to do for lighting/heating yet in the cage. Keep changing my mind. Might just run 2 34” flourescent tubes for UVB. 2 RHP’s and run some LED’s like you for ambient light and just run the flourescents 6-8 hours.
> 
> Edit; oh and prob an incandescent fixture for a hot spot.


If the room temp is 80+ like my reptile room, the fluorescents might be to warm in there. If it is regular house temps of 65-75, you'll probably be fine. To be safe, I would try to find florescent fixtures with a remote ballast that can be placed outside the enclosure.


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## daniellenc

@Tom for a redfoot should I add ventilation? I just ordered mine without but still have time to make adjustments. I am debating using two 60 watt CHE's or RHP. My room is always in the 70's but does get near 80 in the summer afternoons. In the winter it is low 70's. I am doing fluorescents for UVB and light all in one as LED's don't provide UVB to my knowledge. I worry with ventilation humidity will be very hard to maintain in the winter, but without too warm in the summer. I could always lower the temp on my thermostat to 80 instead of 85 where it is now to heat the whole cage with one CHE. Any advice on ventilation and the benefits of RHP over the two CHE's I have now is appreciated.


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## Erik Elvis

Tom said:


> If the room temp is 80+ like my reptile room, the fluorescents might be to warm in there. If it is regular house temps of 65-75, you'll probably be fine. To be safe, I would try to find florescent fixtures with a remote ballast that can be placed outside the enclosure.


Is the ballast what creates most of the heat? Todd from lightyourreptiles recommended his double bulb fixtures for closed chambers as they have a remote ballast


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## katieandiggy

The ballasts get really hot. Mine is a remote ballast and sometimes it’s really hot to touch. I use the Arcadia remote one, I’m in the U.K. I’m not sure if you can get the same thing.


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## Tom

Erik Elvis said:


> Is the ballast what creates most of the heat? Todd from lightyourreptiles recommended his double bulb fixtures for closed chambers as they have a remote ballast


Yes. Most of the heat is generated in the ballast. The bulbs also produce some warmth, but should be manageable. Only your own thermometer in your own enclosure in your own room can answer for sure.


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## Tom

daniellenc said:


> @Tom for a redfoot should I add ventilation? I just ordered mine without but still have time to make adjustments. I am debating using two 60 watt CHE's or RHP. My room is always in the 70's but does get near 80 in the summer afternoons. In the winter it is low 70's. I am doing fluorescents for UVB and light all in one as LED's don't provide UVB to my knowledge. I worry with ventilation humidity will be very hard to maintain in the winter, but without too warm in the summer. I could always lower the temp on my thermostat to 80 instead of 85 where it is now to heat the whole cage with one CHE. Any advice on ventilation and the benefits of RHP over the two CHE's I have now is appreciated.



I much prefer the RHPs because they produce even heat spread out over a greater area. This will be less desiccating to the carapace.


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## Erik Elvis

Tom said:


> Yes. Most of the heat is generated in the ballast. The bulbs also produce some warmth, but should be manageable. Only your own thermometer in your own enclosure in your own room can answer for sure.



Aahhh got it. I was going to have AP mount everything in the cage but think I’m just gonna stick with them putting a couple incandescent fixtures in and doing the heat panels and flourescent fixtures my self. Ali said they would just mount the flourescents flush to the top of the cage and she recommended doing it myself with a hook Or however if I wanted some adjustability. She’s super nice to deal with. 

Oh and I ordered another T70.....


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## daniellenc

Tom said:


> I much prefer the RHPs because they produce even heat spread out over a greater area. This will be less desiccating to the carapace.



And what about ventilation screens?


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## Tom

daniellenc said:


> And what about ventilation screens?


The pre-cut vent slits that came with mine seem to be just right. You can see them in the first pic of this thread.


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## daniellenc

Tom said:


> The pre-cut vent slits that came with mine seem to be just right. You can see them in the first pic of this thread.



Thank you I was worried about letting too much humidity out but I guess I could cover them as needed. Now to figure out the lights. I’ve tried to comprehend @Markw84 lighting threads but it is waaaaay over my head. Redfoots don’t like bright lights but other than a UVB fluorescent strip near the center where his food will go no clue what’s the best lighting to use on each end seeing as I’ll possibly have 2 CHE’s there if I don’t go RHP which is looking likely because I’d had room for low watt flood lights on each end. Also in a 24 inch cage fluorescent lights would need to be side mounted lower and not from the roof right?


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## Tom

daniellenc said:


> Thank you I was worried about letting too much humidity out but I guess I could cover them as needed. Now to figure out the lights. I’ve tried to comprehend @Markw84 lighting threads but it is waaaaay over my head. Redfoots don’t like bright lights but other than a UVB fluorescent strip near the center where his food will go no clue what’s the best lighting to use on each end seeing as I’ll possibly have 2 CHE’s there if I don’t go RHP which is looking likely because I’d had room for low watt flood lights on each end. Also in a 24 inch cage fluorescent lights would need to be side mounted lower and not from the roof right?


Someone who keeps RFs would be better to answer specifics about heating and lighting for them, but florescent lights in general should be mounted from the top, not the side.


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## Thetortoiseguy93

Tom said:


> AKA: Tom's baby emporium.
> 
> @GStars asked for a pic on my new baby raising enclosures the other day. I only had a partial, but I took a fuller one today.
> 
> Each cage is 96x30 and divided in the middle into two 48x30 cages for starting babies. The colored tape on each upper right corner shows the number of babies in each enclosure and also corresponds to the soaking tubs that rest on top of the cages. I've got stars on top, sulcatas in the middle and SA leopards on the bottom.
> View attachment 236407
> 
> 
> View attachment 236413
> 
> 
> View attachment 236408
> 
> 
> View attachment 236409
> 
> 
> View attachment 236412


I really like this how did you build this?


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## Tom

Thetortoiseguy93 said:


> I really like this how did you build this?


All you have to do is follow their complete and thorough instructions. It all screws together very easily and all the holes are pre-drilled and countersunk.


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## T Smart

Looks amazing!


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## taza

What is a RHP?


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## daniellenc

taza said:


> What is a RHP?


Radiant heat panels. Lasts for a lifetime pretty much, distributes heat evenly, and is easier on the shell. They're more efficient in larger cages to keep temps more consistent.


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## taza

daniellenc said:


> Radiant heat panels. Lasts for a lifetime pretty much, distributes heat evenly, and is easier on the shell. They're more efficient in larger cages to keep temps more consistent.


Thank you!


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## Maro2Bear

Tom said:


> I had them install an incandescent fixture on each side of each enclosure. They cut channels for the wires on the top of the cage and everything sits flush without having the wires inside. Its a really neat feature they offer. There are many little details like this that show the true attention to detail and quality that this company offers. Every element of the design is well thought out and well executed.
> 
> I went with LEDs instead of florescent bulbs. Florescent bulbs would probably over heat the whole thing. These cages have very good insulation properties. Its already 80 in the reptile room and these cages get into the 90s with just the little incandescent bulbs.
> 
> I tried my usual 65 watt floods and they were way too hot. Went down to 45 floods and still made a basking spot of 122. Tried a 39 watt, but it was a spot and it made the basking area 140. Ended up using a regular round bulb that is 43 watts, but says it makes the light equivalent of 60 watts. We had a warm spell last week with daily highs in the low to mid 90s outside and the reptile room got pretty warm. I decided to install thermostats on the basking bulbs. Now the basking bulbs cut off if ambient gets over 95-96, but the LEDs stay on their timer.
> 
> No need for a CHE or RHP to maintain ambient since the whole room is kept at 80 or higher 24/7/365.
> 
> No need for UV since all my babies get real sunshine 3-4 times a week minimum.
> 
> The upper cages are warmer, but I think it is due more to the temp gradient of the room than heat transfer from below. The bottom of one cage plus the top of the one under it creates a 1" PVC insulation barrier between cages. I'll do an experiment with three thermometers of the same type at three levels in the room and see what we get. This is how I decided which species would go where. Stars on top since they like it so hot, sulcatas in the middle, and SA leopards on bottom. In reality, all of them run about the same temp with the same basking lamp set up in each.
> 
> Regardless of how any of this explanation sounds, the proof is in the pudding. The babies are thriving in there. Appetites are huge, growth rate is good, and the leopards, who have been in there the longest are the smoothest leopards I've ever grown. Sulcatas have only been in for a few days and stars went in last week, but I expect the same results from them.
> 
> The only thing I would change is adding more of these cages. I've got three more ordered already!



Wow.... all great info coupled to a great indoor set-up. Tks


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## Kaliman1962

@Tom my 3 leopards will be outgoing the closed camber i have them in. it is 48x24x18, i'm looking into the Animal Plastics 96x24x24.
how long will this enclosure last them? right now they are about 10 months old
thank you


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## Tom

Kaliman1962 said:


> @Tom my 3 leopards will be outgoing the closed camber i have them in. it is 48x24x18, i'm looking into the Animal Plastics 96x24x24.
> how long will this enclosure last them? right now they are about 10 months old
> thank you


Growth rates vary tremendously and for a lot of reasons. No way to know. Either way, I'g get the 96x36 size.


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## Kaliman1962

Tom said:


> Growth rates vary tremendously and for a lot of reasons. No way to know. Either way, I'g get the 96x36 size.


do you get the tanks with the 8in holes drilled on top? what accessories should i have installed? 
thanks @Tom


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## Tom

Kaliman1962 said:


> do you get the tanks with the 8in holes drilled on top? what accessories should i have installed?
> thanks @Tom


No holes on top. I did these customizations:

6" litter dam
Sliding glass doors
White
One incandescent fixture on each side
I then add my own LED lighting, 25 watt round bulbs timers and thermostats. Use a radiant heat panel and another thermostat if you need ambient heat.


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## Diamond

Where do you purchase a RHP?


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## Tom

Diamond said:


> Where do you purchase a RHP?


http://www.reptilebasics.com/rbi-radiant-heat-panels


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## daniellenc

I got mine from here: https://pro-products.com/


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## daniellenc

Kaliman1962 said:


> do you get the tanks with the 8in holes drilled on top? what accessories should i have installed?
> thanks @Tom


No holes at all they install everything inside including lights and heat. I got two fluorescent lights for UV and RHP’s installed. You just have it shipped to them and they handle the rest.


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## Diamond

Thanks Tom


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## Diamond

daniellenc said:


> No holes at all they install everything inside including lights and heat. I got two fluorescent lights for UV and RHP’s installed. You just have it shipped to them and they handle the rest.


thanks.


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## Diamond

daniellenc said:


> No holes at all they install everything inside including lights and heat. I got two fluorescent lights for UV and RHP’s installed. You just have it shipped to them and they handle the rest.


Thanks Daniel


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## Kaliman1962

@Tom , @daniellenc i'm going to order the big enclose, with your add ons, what watt RHM panel should i get?
& will this panel replace my CHE's?


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## Tom

Kaliman1962 said:


> @Tom , @daniellenc i'm going to order the big enclose, with your add ons, what watt RHM panel should i get?
> & will this panel replace my CHE's?


The radiant heat panels do replace the CHE. How big of one you need varies with temperature. AP cages insulate very well, so I'm guessing one 21" RHP will get it done. If you find your temps dipping too much in winter, you can always add another one. Both can run on the same thermostat.


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## Billna the 2

Wow I love your set up very much [emoji817]


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## Billna the 2

Tom said:


> AKA: Tom's baby emporium.
> 
> @GStars asked for a pic on my new baby raising enclosures the other day. I only had a partial, but I took a fuller one today.
> 
> Each cage is 96x30 and divided in the middle into two 48x30 cages for starting babies. The colored tape on each upper right corner shows the number of babies in each enclosure and also corresponds to the soaking tubs that rest on top of the cages. I've got stars on top, sulcatas in the middle and SA leopards on the bottom.
> View attachment 236407
> 
> 
> View attachment 236413
> 
> 
> View attachment 236408
> 
> 
> View attachment 236409
> 
> 
> View attachment 236412


How did you do it?


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## Tom

Billna64 said:


> How did you do it?


How did I do what?


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## Billna the 2

Tom said:


> How did I do what?


The nice tortoise set up like we're did you get it?


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## Tom

Billna64 said:


> The nice tortoise set up like we're did you get it?


This is the company that makes them: https://apcages.com/collections/terrestrial-cages
Quality is top notch and they make each one custom according to how you want it. I highly recommend them. I have purchased 6 more since this thread.


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## Billna the 2

Tom said:


> This is the company that makes them: https://apcages.com/collections/terrestrial-cages
> Quality is top notch and they make each one custom according to how you want it. I highly recommend them. I have purchased 6 more since this thread.


Wow thanks alot[emoji119][emoji817]


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## Billna the 2

Tom said:


> This is the company that makes them: https://apcages.com/collections/terrestrial-cages
> Quality is top notch and they make each one custom according to how you want it. I highly recommend them. I have purchased 6 more since this thread.


Your the best[emoji16]


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## Kaliman1962

@Tom, talked to alli, i'm ordering the T70. i'm going to get them the RHP's for my leopard torts, i live in Illinois, we have cold winters, should i get a bigger panel than 21"? plus i'm doing the extras to suggested


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## Tom

Kaliman1962 said:


> @Tom, talked to alli, i'm ordering the T70. i'm going to get them the RHP's for my leopard torts, i live in Illinois, we have cold winters, should i get a bigger panel than 21"? plus i'm doing the extras to suggested


I think a 21" will probably be enough for an indoor enclosure, but only your thermometer can tell you for sure.


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## Kaliman1962

Just ordered a T70!!! i used all of @Tom recommendations , the only addition i did was got 4 ballists installed for basking & CHE,
decided to wait on RBI. the best part is they will be at the reptile show an hour away from in in Oct & said they would bring it with & i just pick up!!!
i can't wait!


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## Toddrickfl1

daniellenc said:


> No holes at all they install everything inside including lights and heat. I got two fluorescent lights for UV and RHP’s installed. You just have it shipped to them and they handle the rest.


Did you ever receive your enclosure?


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## KatApril

Very nice setup Tom! This thread also answers the orchid bark question i have had for you.


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## daniellenc

Toddrickfl1 said:


> Did you ever receive your enclosure?



I did!!! However, it’s been super hectic so it’s finally together and sealed, dried, but I gotta figure out the lights. I’m slacking lol.


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## smjohns

Tom said:


> Fine grade orchid bark. $10 for 2.0 cubic feet.
> View attachment 237573



Where can you buy this at?


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## th3star

I would love to know where you buy the orchid bark.


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## Stoneman

smjohns said:


> Where can you buy this at?



It depends on your proximity to a climate where it grows, where it is also harvested. I do not live near one, but I was able to find a 2 gallon bag (pretty small) from a local Ace Hardware and also a local plant nursery.


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## Gijoux

Tom said:


> AKA: Tom's baby emporium.
> 
> @GStars asked for a pic on my new baby raising enclosures the other day. I only had a partial, but I took a fuller one today.
> 
> Each cage is 96x30 and divided in the middle into two 48x30 cages for starting babies. The colored tape on each upper right corner shows the number of babies in each enclosure and also corresponds to the soaking tubs that rest on top of the cages. I've got stars on top, sulcatas in the middle and SA leopards on the bottom.
> View attachment 236407
> 
> 
> View attachment 236413
> 
> 
> View attachment 236408
> 
> 
> View attachment 236409
> 
> 
> View attachment 236412


Are these cages 30 inches deep as well as high? I dream of a set up like this. Gotta get some eggs to hatch first.


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## Tom

Gijoux said:


> Are these cages 30 inches deep as well as high? I dream of a set up like this. Gotta get some eggs to hatch first.


These are 96 long, 36 wide, and 18 inches tall.


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## Gijoux

Tom said:


> These are 96 long, 36 wide, and 18 inches tall.


Thank you so much!


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## Edian

Tom said:


> I think I've met that baby enclosure fairy a time or two…



I need to summon one of these fairies! It would help instead of trying to Frankenstein my Cherryheads baby room!


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## Gijoux

daniellenc said:


> I got mine from here: https://pro-products.com/


The Pro-Products people will ask you all about the room temperature in which your cage will reside, how big your cage is (they are very aware of the Animal Plastics cages) and what reptile you plan to house in the cage. They will ship what you need directly to Animal Plastics.


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## wccmog10

It’s been a long time, but I got my misting system from pro-products, and I was very happy with the customer service as well as the product. Sounds like they still have both.


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## Tortoise MasterMan

Where can I get one of those!


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## Tom

Tortoise MasterMan said:


> Where can I get one of those!


What? The cage or the misting system?


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## Tortoise MasterMan

The massive cage.


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## Tom

Tortoise MasterMan said:


> The massive cage.


https://apcages.com/collections/terrestrial-cages


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## Tortoise MasterMan

Thanks!


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## latishab2001

Tom said:


> AKA: Tom's baby emporium.
> 
> @GStars asked for a pic on my new baby raising enclosures the other day. I only had a partial, but I took a fuller one today.
> 
> Each cage is 96x30 and divided in the middle into two 48x30 cages for starting babies. The colored tape on each upper right corner shows the number of babies in each enclosure and also corresponds to the soaking tubs that rest on top of the cages. I've got stars on top, sulcatas in the middle and SA leopards on the bottom.
> View attachment 236407
> 
> 
> View attachment 236413
> 
> 
> View attachment 236408
> 
> 
> View attachment 236409
> 
> 
> View attachment 236412


Im soooooo jealous thats a beautiful setup and they look so healthy and happy.


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## Torkoal#1

Tom said:


> AKA: Tom's baby emporium.
> 
> @GStars asked for a pic on my new baby raising enclosures the other day. I only had a partial, but I took a fuller one today.
> 
> Each cage is 96x30 and divided in the middle into two 48x30 cages for starting babies. The colored tape on each upper right corner shows the number of babies in each enclosure and also corresponds to the soaking tubs that rest on top of the cages. I've got stars on top, sulcatas in the middle and SA leopards on the bottom.
> View attachment 236407
> 
> 
> View attachment 236413
> 
> 
> View attachment 236408
> 
> 
> View attachment 236409
> 
> 
> View attachment 236412


How tall are each enclosure? And is that plastic or wood? Did you build or buy it I'm going to build one with plywood and I'd seal it or find a way to make it work.


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## Tom

Torkoal#1 said:


> How tall are each enclosure? And is that plastic or wood? Did you build or buy it I'm going to build one with plywood and I'd seal it or find a way to make it work.


It is made from expanded PVC plastic. It doesn't rot or mold. Plywood won't work. I used to build my own. You can buy a PVC one professionally made for less than the cost of the materials.


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## Torkoal#1

Tom said:


> It is made from expanded PVC plastic. It doesn't rot or mold. Plywood won't work. I used to build my own. You can buy a PVC one professionally made for less than the cost of the materials.


Can I get a link


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## ahmadyazidozi

Torkoal#1 said:


> Can I get a link


https://apcages.com/collections/terrestrial-cages


----------

