# Desert Tortoises keep dying - help!



## RaeRach (Jun 14, 2014)

Hello! I need some help ASAP! I have/had 5 California desert tortoises ranging from 13-15 yrs old. since coming out of hibernation this year I have had 2 die on me. I just attributed it to them being the smallest ones of the pack, but now I have two more acting funny. Not wanting to eat, more tired, etc. I have been to the vet 3 times now for 3 different tortoises. My most recent one that passed away 3 weeks ago, the vet didn't think I'd get answers out of testing my tortoises and said that they take a long time to get sick and a long time to get better. And that by the time they act sick it is often too late! Now, I sit here with one of my remaining 3 who I know will not make it through the night. She stopped eating about 3 days ago, and scoots her way around. She was my most feisty tortoise so I knew something was wrong. The vet today said it was probably too late and that with no runny nose (to treat with antibiotics) it might be something toxic inside her (whatever that means). I am so sad and confused as I have had my tortoises for 15 yrs and don't want them all dying on me now. 

Have you heard of an illness that sweeps through a group of tortoises like this? After this one passes I will have my 2 biggest ones left, and one of them isn't herself either. Any suggestions would be awesome!


----------



## dmmj (Jun 14, 2014)

If it is affecting them all to one degree or another you have got to look for a common link/thread. As of now any illness can wipe out a group, but it could be something they ate or got a hold of. I don't suppose any sort of necropsy was done? With that many being affected I would had at least 1 done. It is true they take awhile for an illness to show, but that should not stop the vet from at leas trying. Are they housed indoor or out door? Together or separate?


----------



## mikeh (Jun 14, 2014)

Sad to hear this. While trying to figure out what's going on I would get them out and away from their habitat asap, separate all three and set them up each in their own hospital bin. Wash hands before/after handling each. Good luck, hope you find the culprit and the rest makes it.


----------



## kimber_lee_314 (Jun 14, 2014)

I'm so sorry! I would definitely have the vet do blood work on any of the remaining tortoises. Then an appropriate antibiotic (or other med) can be prescribed. Have you looked inside their mouths? Are they pale? Do they have any other symptoms? I don't know what you're doing for the remaining torts, but I would suggest keeping them extra warm and well hydrated in the meantime. If they aren't eating you can syringe feed baby food squash. Good luck and let us know how they are doing.


----------



## RaeRach (Jun 14, 2014)

dmmj said:


> If it is a ffecting them all to one degree or another you have got to look for a common link/thread. As if now any illness can wipe out a group, but it could be something they ate or got a hold of. I don't suppose any sort of necropsy was done? With that many being affected I would had at least 1 done. It is true they take awhile for an illness to show, but that should not stop the vet from at leas trying. Are they housed indoor or out door? Together or separate?



No autopsy was done. I live in Southern California and they have been outside for the past 7 years now. All housed together. Annie, who passed away 3 weeks ago, was my smallest even at 15 yrs old. When she came out of hibernation her once beautiful shell looked very dis colored and not right. My little guy who was the first to pass probably never should have lived this long as we had to syringe feed her cause her shell was so soft as a baby. 

I'm afraid to keep going to the vet and not getting answers, but I don't want my kids to have to bury another tortoise :-(


----------



## dmmj (Jun 14, 2014)

I know it is frustrating, and emotionally draining to go t to the vet and do nothing, but the vet should have at least drawn blood.


----------



## RaeRach (Jun 14, 2014)

I can take my other one back on Monday to draw blood. What would they see in blood work? What are they looking for? He said they could X-ray them but if it were kidney problems or pneumonia it would be too late to help them.

My other one who is acting funny didn't want to eat starting 2 weeks ago. Took her in then and just kept soaking her and hand feeding her. She would only eat maybe 5 bites of zucchini and a bite here or there of watermelon. She is still walking around but not like she usually is.


----------



## RaeRach (Jun 14, 2014)

kimber_lee_314 said:


> I'm so sorry! I would definitely have the vet do blood work on any of the remaining tortoises. Then an appropriate antibiotic (or other med) can be prescribed. Have you looked inside their mouths? Are they pale? Do they have any other symptoms? I don't know what you're doing for the remaining torts, but I would suggest keeping them extra warm and well hydrated in the meantime. If they aren't eating you can syringe feed baby food squash. Good luck and let us know how they are doing.


Thanks! I soak them everyday. And will separate them and call the vet on Monday about blood work. What should they be looking for in the blood work?


----------



## dmmj (Jun 14, 2014)

pneumonia can be treated quite easily, if that is what's wrong, this vet is not thinking right. I don't know what to look for because I don't know what is wrong, right now it its a guessing game., for now If they are drinking I would do baby food soaks, get some nutrition in them. Are they pooping?


----------



## RaeRach (Jun 14, 2014)

dmmj said:


> pneumonia can be treated quite easily, if that is what's wrong, this vet is not thinking right. I don't know what to look for because I don't know what is wrong, right now it its a guessing game., for now If they are drinking I would do baby food soaks, get some nutrition in them. Are they pooping?


My other two bigger ones are pooping. Though the one who is acting funny isn't pooping quite like it use to  

Baby food soaks? Is that different than syringe feeding?


----------



## dmmj (Jun 14, 2014)

you mix baby food in water so the tortoise drinks it and the baby food, syringe feeding will work also. Whatever is wrong strength needs to be kept up until they start eating.


----------



## Yvonne G (Jun 15, 2014)

Did you add another tortoise to the group recently or last year before hibernation? Have they been in contact with other species of tortoise?

Here's just one thing that can kill off all your tortoises:

http://www.tortoisetrust.org/articles/herpeswarning.htm


----------



## RaeRach (Jun 15, 2014)

Thank you for all your suggestions, and keep them coming please. I didn't not add any tortoises. I got my original 2 15 yrs ago and got 2 of their cousins 13 years ago. There are wild raccoons that come in our backyard to eat our fruit trees, but my tortoises have never been bothered by them. There are also a ton of wild lizards in my backyard. I'm going to separate my remaining two today :-(

This is 'witch' who passed last night. Should i put her in the fridge if I want to have an autopsy done?


----------



## Yvonne G (Jun 15, 2014)

Wrap her in a plastic bag containing a moist paper towel and refrigerate, but do not freeze.


----------



## Zhao Xiang guo (Jun 15, 2014)

He maybe had a cold because my Sister's friend's tortoises died because they had a cold andere the totoises doesn't dat and doesn't move andere srry fort my bad english


----------



## Jlant85 (Jun 15, 2014)

Just my opinion, quarantine all of them ASAP! This is one of the main reason why they cannot go back into the wild. if one sick and has ever set foot in the wild it can wipe out an entire colony. As you can see, just by one getting sick it can easily effect the others.


----------



## ascott (Jun 15, 2014)

Where in Southern California do you live? I live in the high desert and there is a good vet here in Apple Valley. I would not take the torts back to that vet you are dealing with...apparently they do not know what they are doing.....may we see a pic of the remaining torts?


----------



## kathyth (Jun 15, 2014)

Did any neighbor spray pesticide or toss fertilizer that could have gotten in your tortoise enclosure.
Or spray for bugs, ants??
I am so sorry this is happening to your tortoises.
I agree 100% to separate them immediately and treat each one as if they are infected and highly contagious.


----------



## littleginsu (Jun 15, 2014)

I do not has any advice, but I just wanted to express my condolences and let you know I am preying for your two babies to make a full recovery.


----------



## Carol S (Jun 15, 2014)

I am so sorry for your loss. Are your tortoises protected against the racoons? I had a racoon kill one of my desert tortoises several years ago and now have an electric fence to keep them out. The death of a tortoise is so heartbreaking. I hope your remaining tortoises get well real fast.


----------



## taza (Jun 16, 2014)

Im praying your other torts get better. Sorry for the loss of your others,


----------



## bouaboua (Jun 16, 2014)

Best wishes to you and your torts. Please keep us updated.


----------



## tortadise (Jun 16, 2014)

Hello. Sorry to hear about this event. I have to disagree with your vet. When you start losing animals that quickly it's attributed to something that CAN be tested and should be. Especially if these deceased animals were in contact with the others of the herd.

Gross necropsy should be done.for best results your vet should send to
Northwest Zoopath
http://www.zoopath.com/Services.htm
Michael M. Garner, DVM, Dipl. ACVP
For complete analysis. I'd suggest your vet send samples of tongue to test for herpes virus, liver and kidney for coccidia strains as well. 

Again sorry for your losses. Remedy of the existing herd is crucial. Results may take long but it can and will be worth the unanswered questions at bay. It could certainly be some sort of pesticide in adjacent yard or something similar, hystopath from necropsy will show toxins (foreign) in the liver or kidneys if that's the case. Can you think of anything different that has been fed or done this year a pose to previous years?


----------



## kimber_lee_314 (Jun 16, 2014)

Is there any update? The reason I suggested the bloodwork is to identify if any certain pathogen is causing the issue. If that can be narrowed down, the best antibiotic can be given. Do you need help finding a vet? (I also live in So Cal.)


----------



## ALDABRAMAN (Jun 16, 2014)

Yvonne G said:


> Did you add another tortoise to the group recently or last year before hibernation? Have they been in contact with other species of tortoise?
> 
> Here's just one thing that can kill off all your tortoises:
> 
> http://www.tortoisetrust.org/articles/herpeswarning.htm



* I have recently spoken to someone that had two aldabras pass from this!

* OP, 1). Have you had a stool sample checked for parasites and flukes? 2). Any signs of septicemia?


----------



## Kirin (Jun 17, 2014)

I live in so cal too. here is my vet,(Tom) Greek and associates. he is great.


----------



## RaeRach (Jun 17, 2014)

Thanks for all your suggestions! I have been in contact with UC Davis the state veterinary school in California. They have been awesome and called me back quickly giving me free advice from a doctor. They advised me to spend the money on having a nacropsy done on my tortoise that just passed because I would get more answers verse doing blood work on my tortoises that are still alive. They said extensive blood work would need to be ordered and the nacropsy should give me more answers. So tomorrow I will be taking my tortoise out to San Bernardino (part of UC Davis) for her nacropsy. Should get the rests in about 3 days.

My remaining two are separated and my largest one is still eating a lot. My other one is walking around but only eats maybe a couple bites at a time. I have been syringe feeding her baby food squash. I have noticed that when she does eat on her own her jaw clicks, and never paid attention before to know if that is new or not. I cannot tell if she is pooping and honestly looked like she might have had the "runs" one time.

The only new foods I have given them since coming out of hibernation is green bell pepper, little bit of Kayle, and broccoli once. Mainly they eat green lettuce, squash, zucchini, and hibiscus from my yard.

I'm hoping to get some answers from the nacropsy before anything else happens :-(


----------



## AmRoKo (Jun 19, 2014)

Wow, this is horrible I am so sorry for your losses and that this is happening. I hope you get answers to this.


----------



## Pokeymeg (Jun 20, 2014)

My fingers are crossed for you that answers come quickly!! What a terrible thing...I hope you can get your remaining tortoises back to full health.


----------



## CourtneyG (Jun 20, 2014)

Let's hope the necropsy reveals something.


----------



## yillt (Jun 20, 2014)

I have no idea what to do but I would be thankful for the ones I
I have left. Separate them and if one has any signs of illness keep it away from the others. I am so sorry for your losses and I can't imagine how sad you must be. Just remember this is NOT your fault and you should always carry on keeping tortoises.


----------



## Roo Bot (Jul 3, 2014)

Did you ever get necropsy results? Are your remaining tortoises ok? I hope no news means no more bad news!


----------



## bouaboua (Jul 3, 2014)

Yes....Any update?? Thanks! ! !


----------

