# Best substrate for russian tortoise?



## Harry

so tomorrow i have a day of school (im 13 years old and live in England) and i thought instead of sitting around i would do something to benefit my little baby Russian, and her substrate is only topsoil (not the best substrate) so, what do you guys use for your Russians or you know is good for them?

Thanks all, 
Harry


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## Blakem

Topsoil is fine, or pesticide free (something that has no big spray, weed killer, bad stuff in it) regular dirt is good. I use coco coir and that has need great as well. I see you're from England, I believe Carolina pet supply ships that far, but their are others who may chime in to help that live in your climate.


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Here's some great plant identification websites I use. 

http://www.tlady.clara.net/TortGuide/diet.htm#plantlist

http://africantortoise.com/edible_landscaping.htm

http://m.thetortoisetable.org.uk/m/plants_19.asp


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## Harry

Blake m said:


> Topsoil is fine, or pesticide free (something that has no big spray, weed killer, bad stuff in it) regular dirt is good. I use coco coir and that has need great as well. I see you're from England, I believe Carolina pet supply ships that far, but their are others who may chime in to help that live in your climate.
> 
> 
> ———-------------------------
> 
> Here's some great plant identification websites I use.
> 
> http://www.tlady.clara.net/TortGuide/diet.htm#plantlist
> 
> http://africantortoise.com/edible_landscaping.htm
> 
> http://m.thetortoisetable.org.uk/m/plants_19.asp



There is a locas reptile shop that sells EVERYTHING you could every need haha, they even have some of the more rare animals like 5 foot boscs and cameleons and crestys in the shop, so i will have a look there, Thanks!


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## Aspirerite

Hi I'm new to keeping tortoises and the information I got led me to use 50% topsoil and 50% play sand mixed well and its looking to be a good choice it doesn't dry out too quickly and as long as you mist it it stays moist enough to keep my tortoise enclosure at a good humidity. My tortoise did try it out and had a mouth or two full but she soon found out its not that tasty. If you go to a few garden centers they will have a good deal at one of them and you can get it cheap. Just make sure it has no added fertilizer and your good to go. I got a deal where I got 3 bags of sand and 3 bags of topsoil for £20 in total. maybe quite expensive compared to what some people can get but I would rather pay garden center prices than pet shop extortion. lol . Dont buy wood chips or saw dust its totally wrong although the pet shop may lead you into thinking its a good choice its not. They can become very ill if they eat it or even poisoned. I find the mix drys out on top so you don't get a tortoise trampling through a muddy mess as long as you mist correctly.


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## StarSapphire22

Aspirerite said:


> Hi I'm new to keeping tortoises and the information I got led me to use 50% topsoil and 50% play sand mixed well and its looking to be a good choice it doesn't dry out too quickly and as long as you mist it it stays moist enough to keep my tortoise enclosure at a good humidity. My tortoise did try it out and had a mouth or two full but she soon found out its not that tasty. If you go to a few garden centers they will have a good deal at one of them and you can get it cheap. Just make sure it has no added fertilizer and your good to go. I got a deal where I got 3 bags of sand and 3 bags of topsoil for £20 in total. maybe quite expensive compared to what some people can get but I would rather pay garden center prices than pet shop extortion. lol . Dont buy wood chips or saw dust its totally wrong although the pet shop may lead you into thinking its a good choice its not. They can become very ill if they eat it or even poisoned. I find the mix drys out on top so you don't get a tortoise trampling through a muddy mess as long as you mist correctly.



Please do not use sand. It can cause eye irritation and gut impaction if ingested. Plain topsoil, coco coir, fir bark, etc. will work just fine.


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## Harry

Aspirerite said:


> Hi I'm new to keeping tortoises and the information I got led me to use 50% topsoil and 50% play sand mixed well and its looking to be a good choice it doesn't dry out too quickly and as long as you mist it it stays moist enough to keep my tortoise enclosure at a good humidity. My tortoise did try it out and had a mouth or two full but she soon found out its not that tasty. If you go to a few garden centers they will have a good deal at one of them and you can get it cheap. Just make sure it has no added fertilizer and your good to go. I got a deal where I got 3 bags of sand and 3 bags of topsoil for £20 in total. maybe quite expensive compared to what some people can get but I would rather pay garden center prices than pet shop extortion. lol . Dont buy wood chips or saw dust its totally wrong although the pet shop may lead you into thinking its a good choice its not. They can become very ill if they eat it or even poisoned. I find the mix drys out on top so you don't get a tortoise trampling through a muddy mess as long as you mist correctly.




From what i know, a better mix is 75% top soil and 25% play sand, the only thing is, the last time i used this half of my reptiles room got mites just from this one bad, and mites are a pain to get rid of cost me around £200 to get rid of all the mites!


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## StarSapphire22

Most members here will recommend absolutely no sand. For some reason, members in the UK are using it more, but most switch once they join up here and learn about the dangers. Sure, there's a chance that nothing will happen, but why risk it?


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## Aspirerite

The care sheet on this very forum says this? The best possible substrates for housing Greek tortoises indoors are a 50/50 mix of top soil and play sand, cypress mulch and aspen wood shavings. When using aspen it is very important to make sure the tortoises stay hydrated because it tends to be very dry. Rabbit pellets will suffice but do not hold humidity well and mold will grow quickly in soiled areas. Cedar and pine bedding are an absolute NO, as they are toxic to tortoises. ??????????? I'm mystified? I have also been given this advice by many supposedly reputable places


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## Harry

StarSapphire22 said:


> Most members here will recommend absolutely no sand. For some reason, members in the UK are using it more, but most switch once they join up here and learn about the dangers. Sure, there's a chance that nothing will happen, but why risk it?



Its safer to use a bit of sand as it will help hold up the burrows so they dont claps on your tort and its less dangerous if you use 25 to 75 mix of sand to soil


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## StarSapphire22

Harry said:


> Its safer to use a bit of sand as it will help hold up the burrows so they dont claps on your tort and its less dangerous if you use 25 to 75 mix of sand to soil



I'm not sure I really see the science behind this statement. @Tom do you have anything to add here?


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## Harry

Aspirerite said:


> The care sheet on this very forum says this? The best possible substrates for housing Greek tortoises indoors are a 50/50 mix of top soil and play sand, cypress mulch and aspen wood shavings. When using aspen it is very important to make sure the tortoises stay hydrated because it tends to be very dry. Rabbit pellets will suffice but do not hold humidity well and mold will grow quickly in soiled areas. Cedar and pine bedding are an absolute NO, as they are toxic to tortoises. ??????????? I'm mystified? I have also been given this advice by many supposedly reputable places



Rabbit pellets are not a good substrate, dont use them please.


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## StarSapphire22

Aspirerite said:


> The care sheet on this very forum says this? The best possible substrates for housing Greek tortoises indoors are a 50/50 mix of top soil and play sand, cypress mulch and aspen wood shavings. When using aspen it is very important to make sure the tortoises stay hydrated because it tends to be very dry. Rabbit pellets will suffice but do not hold humidity well and mold will grow quickly in soiled areas. Cedar and pine bedding are an absolute NO, as they are toxic to tortoises. ??????????? I'm mystified? I have also been given this advice by many supposedly reputable places



I have spoken with Chris, the author of this caresheet, personally and he has told me it is outdated and in need of updating. He no longer recommends aspen at all, and also recommends against sand because of the risk from impaction. If you are using a natural soil, then it will obviously have some sand content, but adding on purpose is unnecessary and dangerous. Rabbit pellets are also not good at all, as they will leech moisture from your tortoises and are extremely drying, do not hold humidity and mold easily.

Ideal substrates for testudo species are top soil, coco coir, fir bark (also know as reptibark or fine grade orchid bark), and cypress mulch. I personally don't use mulch with burrowing species to avoid splinters in the eyes, etc. since those wood chips are so pointy and stabby, but it is personal choice.


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## Tom

Sand is an impaction risk and possible skin and eye irritant. I have seen the problems it can cause first hand and so I recommend it be avoided. It is one of those things from the past like housing tortoises on dry rabbit pellets. Some people still do it, but it doesn't make it right or safe.

The soil you are using sounds fine. My favorite substrate for young indoor russian tortoises is coco coir. My all time favorite substrate for just about any species is outside on the dirt.


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## Aspirerite

Can we have the care sheet taken down then and updated? as I purchased the wrong stuff and ill have to change it tomorrow. argh


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## StarSapphire22

Aspirerite said:


> Can we have the care sheet taken down then and updated? as I purchased the wrong stuff and ill have to change it tomorrow. argh



I believe Chris plans on updating it, but he is a one-man show running a huge turtle and tortoise farm in New Jersey and is smack in the middle of a very busy nesting season. Care sheets are written by people who volunteer their time and knowledge and take quite some time to create.


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## Mimirose22

I really like cypress mulch. My tort doesn't eat it and seems to like digging in it. Just make sure it is all natural and pesticide free. I do NOT recommend aspen. I wasn't happy with it. good luck!


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## Tom

Mimirose22 said:


> I really like cypress mulch. My tort doesn't eat it and seems to like digging in it. Just make sure it is all natural and pesticide free. I do NOT recommend aspen. I wasn't happy with it. good luck!



I agree with you. I've used aspen in years past, and it is much too dry.

I also like cypress mulch, but I like to soak and rinse it before I use it. I bought a batch that smelled pretty swampy once.


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## Aspirerite

StarSapphire22 said:


> I believe Chris plans on updating it, but he is a one-man show running a huge turtle and tortoise farm in New Jersey and is smack in the middle of a very busy nesting season. Care sheets are written by people who volunteer their time and knowledge and take quite some time to create.


I understand Ill just go with 100% top soil then tomorrow. Hay can I ask you? I have just got a 2yr old med spur and she is not eating a lot. I've only had her 4 days and she ate very little the first day or the second say but then yesterday she had about 9 5 inch leaves dandelion leaves but today she ate nothing. how long should she not eat before I start worrying? she seems OK but she just isn't very active my cold side temp hits 21c-23c and my warm side 32c my nighttime temp is around 19-20c. have i got it right or should I change anything? my warm side did go a little high the other day it hit 26c but it was very hot for where I live


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## addyson123

Harry said:


> so tomorrow i have a day of school (im 13 years old and live in England) and i thought instead of sitting around i would do something to benefit my little baby Russian, and her substrate is only topsoil (not the best substrate) so, what do you guys use for your Russians or you know is good for them?
> 
> Thanks all,
> Harry



I used to go for the eco-earth coconut fiber but lately I've been using the one from Lowes because it is about $4 for 8 quarts vs $12 with eco-earth.


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## I need tortoise help

StarSapphire22 said:


> Please do not use sand. It can cause eye irritation and gut impaction if ingested. Plain topsoil, coco coir, fir bark, etc. will work just fine.


How do I know that the topsoil is non toxic? Also, is topsoil good for adult russians?


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## Tom

Harry said:


> so tomorrow i have a day of school (im 13 years old and live in England) and i thought instead of sitting around i would do something to benefit my little baby Russian, and her substrate is only topsoil (not the best substrate) so, what do you guys use for your Russians or you know is good for them?
> 
> Thanks all,
> Harry


For babies, the best substrate is coco coir. For adult, fine grade orchid bark. If you can't find orchid bark, cypress mulch is a suitable substitute. Soil or sand should never be used.


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## Tom

Aspirerite said:


> Hi I'm new to keeping tortoises and the information I got led me to use 50% topsoil and 50% play sand mixed well and its looking to be a good choice it doesn't dry out too quickly and as long as you mist it it stays moist enough to keep my tortoise enclosure at a good humidity. My tortoise did try it out and had a mouth or two full but she soon found out its not that tasty. If you go to a few garden centers they will have a good deal at one of them and you can get it cheap. Just make sure it has no added fertilizer and your good to go. I got a deal where I got 3 bags of sand and 3 bags of topsoil for £20 in total. maybe quite expensive compared to what some people can get but I would rather pay garden center prices than pet shop extortion. lol . Dont buy wood chips or saw dust its totally wrong although the pet shop may lead you into thinking its a good choice its not. They can become very ill if they eat it or even poisoned. I find the mix drys out on top so you don't get a tortoise trampling through a muddy mess as long as you mist correctly.


Store bought "soil", aka "topsoil" or "sterilized soil", is made from composted yard waste. There is no way to know what is in it. It IS recommend all over the internet and in books too. Even some of the old timers here on the forum still recommend it and use it. None of that makes it safe, and each one of them is one bad batch away from dead tortoises, and then they will say the same thing I'm saying. I got my one bad batch a few years ago, and now I try to warn people so they don't have to learn the hard way after a tortoise dies.

Soil is also very messy and turns to mud when wet. It also usually has additives like perlite, fertilizers, or chemicals, that can be deadly. Soil is great for growing plants. Its not great as a tortoise substrate.


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## Tom

Aspirerite said:


> The care sheet on this very forum says this? The best possible substrates for housing Greek tortoises indoors are a 50/50 mix of top soil and play sand, cypress mulch and aspen wood shavings. When using aspen it is very important to make sure the tortoises stay hydrated because it tends to be very dry. Rabbit pellets will suffice but do not hold humidity well and mold will grow quickly in soiled areas. Cedar and pine bedding are an absolute NO, as they are toxic to tortoises. ??????????? I'm mystified? I have also been given this advice by many supposedly reputable places


You are reading and following old, out-dated, incorrect info. Soil and sand should never be used. Cypress mulch is fine. Aspen shavings are far too dry, as are rabbit pellets which quickly turn to dust under a tortoise.


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## Tom

Harry said:


> Its safer to use a bit of sand as it will help hold up the burrows so they dont claps on your tort and its less dangerous if you use 25 to 75 mix of sand to soil


Its not safer. 3-4 inches of substate "collapsing" on your tortoise will not hurt anything. And they don't dig tunnels anyway. They just sort of shimmy down into the substrate like a stingray on a sandy bottom.

Less dangerous? How about we use something that is not dangerous at all?


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## Tom

I need tortoise help said:


> How do I know that the topsoil is non toxic? Also, is topsoil good for adult russians?


You can't know, and no it isn't.


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## Sarah2020

As your in the UK look at this supplier ....orchid bark available from swell reptiles is also advised for russians https://www.reptiles.swelluk.com/sw...MIsYaomuG26gIV1GDmCh0HQw3uEAQYASABEgK1lfD_BwE
I use them for lots of supplies inc lights, bulbs etc...


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