# Pro plan cat food vs Mazuri



## RonHays (Jul 17, 2012)

I have someone on my Facebook that is insisting that pro plan cat food is identical to Mazuri. I haven't compared ingredients but is this pretty accurate or is it bs?


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## GeoTerraTestudo (Jul 17, 2012)

No way. Mazuri is made entirely out of plants - no animal matter. Cat foods vary from mostly meat with some plants, to 100% meat. Totally different foods, for animals with totally different dietary needs. If you were to give Mazuri Tortoise Diet to a cat, or cat food to a tortoise, the results would be disastrous ... and sadly, those "experiments" have already been performed by careless pet owners.


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## Yvonne G (Jul 17, 2012)

Its BS. I doubt very much that Mazuri Tortoise Diet would interest a cat.

He might be saying that the protein content, vitamins and minerals, etc. are the same from food to food.


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## bigred (Jul 17, 2012)

I have given my redfoots purina pro plan cat food in the past because TURTLETERRY says thats what he does for a protein source evey 10 days or so. I think he has it on his website or caresheets. Thought I would try it out and it was fine. I have been giving them Mazuri lately about every 10 days or so. Im sure the ingredients are very different though


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## RonHays (Jul 17, 2012)

That's what I thought. He told me to stay clear of Mazuri because it's not good for tortoises. He even through out the turtletary care sheet at me. Lol. Im not going to discredit Terry's care sheet because he has grade A torts. Last year when I talked to Terry himself over the phone (numerous times) he had no problem with the diet I was giving my torts. Go figure.


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## Yvonne G (Jul 17, 2012)

It took some searching, but I finally found a list of Pro Plan's ingredients:

Chicken, brewers rice, corn gluten meal, poultry by-product meal, dried egg product, wheat flour, animal fat preserved with mixed-tocopherols (form of Vitamin E), fish meal, soy protein isolate, animal liver flavor, brewers dried yeast, potassium chloride, phosphoric acid, salt, L-Lysine monohydrochloride, calcium carbonate, choline chloride, Vitamin E supplement, taurine, zinc sulfate, ferrous sulfate, L-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate (source of Vitamin C), manganese sulfate, niacin, Vitamin A supplement, calcium pantothenate, copper sulfate, thiamine mononitrate, riboflavin supplement, Vitamin B-12 supplement, pyridoxine hydrochloride, folic acid, Vitamin D-3 supplement, calcium iodate, biotin, menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source of Vitamin K activity), sodium selenite


No way in the world does this match the list of ingredients in Mazuri Tortoise Diet:

Ground Soybean Hulls, Ground Corn, Dehulled Soybean Meal, Ground Oats, Wheat Middlings, Cane Molasses, Soybean Oil, Wheat Germ, Dehydrated Alfalfa Meal, Dicalcium Phosphate, Brewers Dried Yeast, Calcium Carbonate, Salt, DL-Methionine, Choline Chloride, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, D-Alpha-Tocopheryl Acetate, Cholecalciferol, Biotin, Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex, Calcium Pantothenate, Vitamin A Acetate, Riboflavin, Folic Acid, Nicotinic Acid, Thiamine Mononitrate, Vitamin B-12 Supplement, Manganous Oxide, Zinc Oxide, Natural Mixed Tocopherols (a Preservative), Ferrous Carbonate, Citric Acid, Ascorbic Acid, Copper Sulfate, Rosemary Extract, Lecithin, Zinc Sulfate, Calcium Iodate, Cobalt Carbonate, Sodium Selenite. 

There's nothing wrong with using the Purina Pro Plan dry cat food as your animal protein source for the redfooted tortoises and box turtles.


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## bigred (Jul 17, 2012)

RonHays said:


> That's what I thought. He told me to stay clear of Mazuri because it's not good for tortoises. He even through out the turtletary care sheet at me. Lol. Im not going to discredit Terry's care sheet because he has grade A torts. Last year when I talked to Terry himself over the phone (numerous times) he had no problem with the diet I was giving my torts. Go figure.



Ya if what you are doing is working stick with it. I really try to change things up a bit. I have actually started feeding mine less and less often to force them to go on a hunt for food. The end up eating grass and pull hibiscus branches down and eat the leaves. I throw banana peels out in the grass and different things like that so they will go on the hunt


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## RonHays (Jul 17, 2012)

Noting wrong with that bigred. My torts get Mazuri twice a week and the rest of the time they graze inside their enclosures. Every once in a while I'll throw in some turnip greens (they love those) and I'm growing food plots in their enclosures also.


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## terryo (Jul 17, 2012)

I started both my Cherry Head hatchlings, until they were over a year old, on the pro plan cat food. It was their first protein.


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## RonHays (Jul 17, 2012)

Ok now I'm as confused as a cow on AstroTurf. Which is better? Mazuri or pro plan? Is feeding Mazuri twice a week a bad thing? Or should I just buy the pro plan and feed it to them every other week? 

Next question... Is the pro plan good for a sulcata hatchling or should i stick with Mazuri for him?


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## Tom (Jul 17, 2012)

They are two totally different things. Pro plan is great as a protein source for chelonians that need this, like your redfoots, but Mazuri is good for all of them, like your sulcata.

Btw, Pro Plan is an excellent dog food too. My dogs have been on it for their whole lives.


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## RonHays (Jul 17, 2012)

Tom said:


> They are two totally different things. Pro plan is great as a protein source for chelonians that need this, like your redfoots, but Mazuri is good for all of them, like your sulcata.
> 
> Btw, Pro Plan is an excellent dog food too. My dogs have been on it for their whole lives.



Ok. Would it be wise to stay on the Mazuri schedule and give them some of the pro plan once every two weeks? Or is the Mazuri enough? 

And btw, I have 3 cats that would not approve of me giving the torts gourmet cat food. Lol. Especially since they get fed 9 lives.


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## Yvonne G (Jul 17, 2012)

Ron:

Its two totally different kinds of protein. The Pro Plan is to give your tortoise and turtles that require a bit of animal protein in their diets, and the Mazuri Tortoise Diet can be given to all tortoises, including the above mentioned tortoises.


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## Madkins007 (Jul 17, 2012)

Mazuri has plenty of meat protein in it for tortoises. Red-footeds and some other forest/omnivorous torts eat meat in the wild because the local diets are short in proteins and other nutrients that herbivorous torts get more easily in the plants.

ALL tortoises need about the same overall nutrients, but the forest/omnivores are better designed to handle the fats, etc. in meats. 

To sort of put Pro-Plan and Mazuri in human prepared food terms, Pro-plan would be something like canned tuna, and Mazuri would be a vegetable dish with a little meat in it. 

I don't have strong opinions against Mazuri, but I find I have dropped it most of the way off my diet and focus on fresher foods.

Also- understand that there is nothing all that special about Pro-Plan. It met Terry/NERD's needs and is a bit lower in fats, etc. than some other offerings, but most other people who use packaged pet foods as a meat supplement seem to get good results from other products. Since the kibble is such a small part of the diet, it is not massively important what kind you get as long as it is decent stuff. I mean- pro Plan is basically chicken parts and a bunch of generic 'cereal ingredients'- why not just toss in some chicken and skip the rest of the stuff?


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## RonHays (Jul 17, 2012)

Ok I'm starting to get a better picture now. Doesn't sound like I could go wrong either way. Mark it sounds like the redfoots would benefit more from the pro plan for the animal protein. Sulcatas not so much. Thanks for the info.


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## GeoTerraTestudo (Jul 18, 2012)

When I said people have had disastrous results giving cat food to their turtles, what I meant was people who give their turtles _only_ cat food, or those who give them food that contains beef. Turtles that eat a lot of fatty, beef-containing cat or dog food and little else develop metabolic bone disease (MBD), including deformed shells, misshapen faces and limbs, etc. This is because chelonians are not adapted to this sort of diet. Even very carnivorous turtles, like snappers, eat mostly _fish_, not beef, so although they may get a lot of oil in their diet, they don't get much fat. In the wild, box turtles and redfoot tortoises may hunt live invertebrates or scavenge fish, bird, rodent, or deer carcasses, but none of these is as fatty as cattle. In captivity, feeding boxies and redfoots the occasional snail, chicken, or venison is fine, but not beef. I can see by the ingredients list above that Purina Pro Plan contains no beef, only chicken, egg, and fish, so that's good.


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## Madkins007 (Jul 18, 2012)

Just remember that MOST tortoises, even the omnivores, don't need much protein- only about 10-15% of the total diet, and they can get most of that from the plants. (Hinge-backs, most terrestrial turtles, and a couple others are exceptions in that they can handle a lot more meat than that).


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## diaboliqueturtle (Aug 22, 2012)

Ok, now I'm thoroughly confused. I understand the different type of protein between Pro Plan and Mazuri. I'm confused about should I or shouldn't I???

I raised my Red Foot from hatchling on fresh greens, veggies, a spoonful of cat food couple times a week (I was smart enough to intuit choosing poultry rather than beef) and the occasional fruit. 3 years later, judging by her smooth shell, devoid of pyramiding, bright eyes, huge appetite and high activity level, I'm thinking I did a pretty good job...

Last month I bought Zoo-Med's Forest Tortoise food (seduced by her picture on the label) and Mazuri. She loves both mixed together and gobbles the whole thing. Now, both labels state that these commercial foods can be fed exclusively. Is that true? I already went against my instincts by purchasing these as I have a problem with buying things/food that I can make myself and I avoid processed food for my own family.

Now, she snubs her greens... What have I done???

Suddenly insecure mom here :-/


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## Yvonne G (Aug 22, 2012)

You can use both, Nathalie. Your redfooted tortoise needs the occasional meal of animal protein (Pro Plan Cat Food), plus the bulk/fiber and vegetable protein of the Mazuri Tortoise Diet. You don't have to feed both every day, but once or twice a week on different days would not harm your tortoise.


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## paludarium (Aug 22, 2012)

Hi all,

according to a study published in 2005, the canned, vitamin-enriched cat food (Tuffyâ€™s, Heinz Pet Products, Kentucky, USA) was not a bad food for the tortoise, or _Testudo graeca terrestris_.

Reference:
http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/brill/ah/2005/00000002/00000002/art00010

Regards,
Erich


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## tortadise (Aug 22, 2012)

Ok to clear this up a bit more.

Purina pro plan: consist of animal protein (chicken,fish, red meats)

Ok to feed for protein ^Red/yellow foots, hingebacks, elongated, forstens, travancore, spider tortoises, box turtles, wood turtles, spiney turtles, and sometimes manouria


Mazuri: consists of plant protein (from fauna ingredients in the mazuri extract form the plants)
Sulcata, leopards, hingebacks, redfoots, yellowfoots, elongated, forstens, manouria, greek, hermann, marginated, gophers, radiated, ploughshare, indian/sri lanken/burmese stars, pancakes, russians, tents, padlopers, galapagos, aldabras, tranancore, spiders tortoises,

So in a lump sum mazuri can be fed to all species of tortoises although some dont like it. But those that are in need of a percentage of higher protein sources CAN be fed the cat food. Some cannot


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## GeoTerraTestudo (Aug 22, 2012)

paludarium said:


> Hi all,
> 
> according to a study published in 2005, the canned, vitamin-enriched cat food (Tuffyâ€™s, Heinz Pet Products, Kentucky, USA) was not a bad food for the tortoise, or _Testudo graeca terrestris_.
> 
> ...



I see nothing about cat food in that abstract. I seriously doubt that Mediterranean tortoises would do well given a carnivorous diet.


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## Redstrike (Aug 22, 2012)

GeoTerraTestudo said:


> paludarium said:
> 
> 
> > Hi all,
> ...



Ditto GeoTerra, seems a suspect conclusion from the provided abstract that does not reference canned cat food...?


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## Madkins007 (Aug 22, 2012)

Hmmm, I cannot get the link to open.


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## GeoTerraTestudo (Aug 22, 2012)

Madkins007 said:


> Hmmm, I cannot get the link to open.



Here's the text:

Growth and body composition in captive _Testudo graeca terrestris_ fed with a high-energy diet

Authors: Lapid, Ran H.; Nir, Israel; Robinzon, Boaz

Source: Applied Herpetology, Volume 2, Number 2, 2005 , pp. 201-209(9)

Publisher: BRILL

*Abstract:*
Wild populations of Testudo graeca may face extinction due to large demand in the pet trade and habitat loss. Establishment of reproduction farms could alleviate the danger from collection of wild tortoises; management of such farms requires nutritional guidance. Our initial trials resulted in tortoises with soft shell syndrome and gout, due to improper nutrition. These problems were solved by using a high energy, amino acid-balanced diet for hatchlings and young tortoises. This diet also increased growth compared to wild tortoises. We determined changes in body composition with size in order to be able to formulate specific diets according to the nutritional needs of each stage of growth. Water content was about 70% in newly hatched tortoises, increased slightly till they doubled their mass, and thereafter declined gradually, stabilizing at about 60% at a body mass of 170 g. Ash content was 5% at hatching, increased gradually to 15% at 170 g, and remained stable thereafter. Lipid content was about 7% at hatching, due to the residual yolk, declined to a minimum of 2.8% at 94 g, and resumed the level of 7% from 170 g. Sulfur-amino acid levels (methionine and cysteine) were lower than those found in homeotherms; a negative correlation between sulfur and protein contents suggested a substantial sulfur compartment outside of amino acids.

Keywords: AMINO ACIDS; ASH; BODY COMPOSITION; GROWTH; LIPID; MINERALS; NUTRITION; PROTEIN; TESTUDO GRAECA TERRESTRIS; TORTOISE

Document Type: Research article

DOI: http://dx.doi.org/10.1163/1570754043492090

Publication date: 2005-01-01


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## paludarium (Aug 23, 2012)

Hi all,

I not sure if some texts of the research could be reproduced without permission of the copyright owner. Anyway, I always ignore the abstract of a study, but read thoroughly the "Materials & Methods" part. 

Regards,
Erich


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## Mgridgaway (Aug 23, 2012)

I don't have any new information to contribute to this discussion, but I did want to say that like Mark, I've been trying to cut out Mazuri from my tort diet. I used to feed them Wednesday and Sunday with some kibbles, but have knocked it down to just Sunday. I like to keep it a part of their diet as a supplement to make sure they're getting enough of what they need throughout the week, but otherwise I stick with fresh food.


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