# Systemic Adenovirus



## tortadise (May 3, 2013)

Systemic Adenovirus seems to be present as noted in the veterinarian published board. I am considering adding some WC specimens to my collection of forstenii. However that being said. I obligate myself to engage (much like the intranuclear Coccidiosis thread I posted) in extreme realms of quarantine and bio-security for any addition to my collection and efforts. I was wondering if anyone has ever dealt with this strain of virus or infection in this species and had results that were not fatal. Perhaps a method for testing positive and treatment. Also how is it tested? Cloacal swab as similar to the PCR of INC(Intanuclear Coccidiosis)? Any input on this adenovirus would greatly appreciated as well to the better knowledge of others on this forum to see what sort of testing they could also be part of in their collections future. 

Attached is a small article on this.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19564489

And a much more extensive article on this that I could find. Any new publication or veterinarian input would be much obliged.
http://vdi.sagepub.com/content/21/4/415.full.pdf+html


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## deadheadvet (May 4, 2013)

Cloacal swab is the best for PCR testing. No treatment as is a viral disease.
For Herpes, oral swab would be best.


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## nhaislip (May 7, 2013)

Hey Kelly,

I found a 2012 paper on the same issue in platynota and impressa. See attached. Enjoy, Nate.




tortadise said:


> Systemic Adenovirus seems to be present as noted in the veterinarian published board. I am considering adding some WC specimens to my collection of forstenii. However that being said. I obligate myself to engage (much like the intranuclear Coccidiosis thread I posted) in extreme realms of quarantine and bio-security for any addition to my collection and efforts. I was wondering if anyone has ever dealt with this strain of virus or infection in this species and had results that were not fatal. Perhaps a method for testing positive and treatment. Also how is it tested? Cloacal swab as similar to the PCR of INC(Intanuclear Coccidiosis)? Any input on this adenovirus would greatly appreciated as well to the better knowledge of others on this forum to see what sort of testing they could also be part of in their collections future.
> 
> Attached is a small article on this.
> 
> ...


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## tortadise (May 7, 2013)

Fantastic. Thanks Nate! Good read. Especially on other species. I do believe this can(and DVMs correct me if im wrong) be contracted, and or spread to other species. I would like to know if any recorded cases had a success with treatment and not fatality. Might be another intranuclear coccidiosis type with 100% mortality rate though. That being said. Perhaps its also as similar as INC. In regards of not documented or commonly tested for. Hope one day or maybe its being worked to develope a PCR combo of all these nasty viruses. 

Evan can herpes be present in cloacal PCR or does it have to be oral swab to be accurate?


Also Nate. You dont have to divulge zoo protocol or anything if you dont want to. But does the health and Vet department of zoological facilities utilize testing for things like adenovirus, coccidias, mycoplasma, or herpes. Or is it just test when showing ill signs?


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## nhaislip (May 7, 2013)

I wouldn't see a reason why this would not be able to be contracted by similar species. I say similar in the regard that they inhabit similar habitats. However that may not even stop it. 

The problem is that the most accurate PCR samples are usually kidney and liver samples and these samples are difficult to collect from health specimens  Although the animal may be shedding the virions via the cloaca, cloacal swabs aren't usually very accurate due to the possibility of varying levels of shedding in an average cycle of the virus. I.e. some days the tortoise won't be shedding as many virions and if you choose that day to swab, you may miss it. Also, since many viruses concentrate in the liver or kidneys, this is usually the best place to test from and these two samples are almost always suggested to be collected from freshly dead animals.

There is also conflicting results with the PCR and the In situ hybridization. Since this is such a new pathogen, I think it might be awhile before considerable knowledge is gathered about the pathogen itself, much less how to diagnose and treat for it. We saw the same thing happen with ranavirus in amphibians. It took a couple of decades before we really figured out alot about the pathogen and how to diagnose it. We still don't have a cure for it and tests are still sometimes inaccurate. You must rely on a really good diagnostic laboratory that knows the pathogen well, otherwise things will be missed. Also, these tests aren't cheap. 

I digress, anyways glad you enjoyed the article.



tortadise said:


> Fantastic. Thanks Nate! Good read. Especially on other species. I do believe this can(and DVMs correct me if im wrong) be contracted, and or spread to other species. I would like to know if any recorded cases had a success with treatment and not fatality. Might be another intranuclear coccidiosis type with 100% mortality rate though. That being said. Perhaps its also as similar as INC. In regards of not documented or commonly tested for. Hope one day or maybe its being worked to develope a PCR combo of all these nasty viruses.
> 
> Evan can herpes be present in cloacal PCR or does it have to be oral swab to be accurate?


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## tortadise (May 7, 2013)

Always glad to discuss such here. Again thanks. I do agree. I sent off some samples for curiosity purposes in 24 specimens of my collection. Should actually get the results this week. Its not this pathogen however being tested. Im always trying to express the best educational and bio-security practices to hobbyist,collectors, and even extremely large conservation organizations like my collection is. Lst thing I want to see is some studbooked captive group for critically endangered species to die off randomly from a virus that could of been lingering from previous keepers, or even the wild. I hope in a weird way something I do helps the informative cause out amongst the little known in this part of chelonia.


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## nhaislip (May 7, 2013)

tortadise said:


> Fantastic. Thanks Nate! Good read. Especially on other species. I do believe this can(and DVMs correct me if im wrong) be contracted, and or spread to other species. I would like to know if any recorded cases had a success with treatment and not fatality. Might be another intranuclear coccidiosis type with 100% mortality rate though. That being said. Perhaps its also as similar as INC. In regards of not documented or commonly tested for. Hope one day or maybe its being worked to develope a PCR combo of all these nasty viruses.
> 
> Evan can herpes be present in cloacal PCR or does it have to be oral swab to be accurate?
> 
> ...





Since you mention TINC, have you seen the paper attached? It's pretty new, but basically it talks about a real-time PCR test being developed which is amazing! With it being qPCR now, this should make the costs drop dramatically, accuracy improves, and it can be detected with a cloacal swab. Enjoy!




tortadise said:


> Also Nate. You dont have to divulge zoo protocol or anything if you dont want to. But does the health and Vet department of zoological facilities utilize testing for things like adenovirus, coccidias, mycoplasma, or herpes. Or is it just test when showing ill signs?



I'm not 100% sure exactly what all they test for. I know they do conduct a series of tests and our quarantine duration is usually around 90-120d to try and detect any behavioral or clinical signs of disease as well. Sometimes however, we catch things like novel pathogens on the later side. If we have an animal die unexpectedly, this is usually when we really deploy the myriad of tests on all the fresh tissues to really help determine what exactly it died from. Some like coccidias or mycoplasmas can be so difficult to detect until it is almost too late for that animal.


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## tortadise (May 7, 2013)

Yeah, I actually had that conversation with the UFL(University of Florida) they recomended the alternate for what I was shooting for. I was amazed at how they could find out what strains of coccidias etc.. Im shooting for presence and if at all possible how many copies IF present. If any specimens test positive for it then retesting will under go both tests. Good stuff how it is evolving though. I like seeing this in the educational realm. Sometimes I feel our education(even higher education) is slowly declining in areas. That conversation with the lab changed all that though.


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## deadheadvet (May 8, 2013)

Kelly: to answer both questions, herpes best to swab orally. Most likely to find it there.
Secondly, you are most likely to score on your swabs when testing in the area where you will find the organism. That being said, if the organism is not present at that moment in time, you may get false negative. Serial sample may be best but cost is a factor.


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