# People in cold/moderate climates with large tortoises: Can we see your enclosure?



## Tortus (Nov 21, 2012)

When my leopard gets larger I'll only be able to leave it outside for 3-4 months out of the year. I'm reading here and there that they need as much room as an entire back yard as adults.

I'm just wondering what kind of set-up some of you have for large tortoises indoors. I know a lot of people in cooler climates have sulcatas and leopards that can't stay outside during most of the year.


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## Laura (Nov 21, 2012)

if they cant be outside.. i think it cruel to the animal.. but that is me.. 

check the enclosure section for pics and ideas...

look into Loafing sheds.. this provides a indoor area that can be heated and a covered outdoor area, that would be placed in a large fenced in area. 
how much snow do you get?


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## Tortus (Nov 21, 2012)

Some years we get a lot of snow, and other years hardly any. 

During summer months I'll have no problem leaving it outside. I have the perfect spot to set it up that can be easily fenced off. But of course I'll have to keep it indoors during the winter since it can get below freezing.

I've been looking through the enclosure section, and most enclosures pictured are for hatchlings or smaller species of tortoise. I've seen people post from places like Canada and Michigan with larger species. 

Maybe people in cooler climates shouldn't have larger ones and some could argue that keeping any reptile indoors is cruel, but that's another topic. Here we have hot summers and cold winters.


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## Maggie Cummings (Nov 21, 2012)

You can do a 'search' and find threads I have made with pictures of Bob's shed and yard. He is a 120 pound Sulcata and we live in Corvallis Oregon. He has his own shed that is 12'X20' that is insulated and large enough for him to pace around. He has a sleeping box with a pig blanket in it and a large pile of hay to eat and poop in. Like I said, do a Bob search and you'll see threads I have made complete with pictures...I open his doggie door every morning and sometimes he goes out and sometimes he doesn't. He is not afraid of snow and I get a kick out of seeing him scratch at the snow to get that meager bite of frozen grass. I used to feel bad that I kept a desert type animal where the winters are so long. But I have gotten over that as I believe he has the best set-up and is mega loved by his family. His yard is fenced with a 3' tall solid cedar fence. I discovered that if I open his doggie door and leave the decision whether to go out or stay in up to him, he manages just fine. He can and will stay inside comfortably all day...but if I don't give him the chance to make his own decision he gets very pissy and will ram the door all day long. I think Bob has a good life here and I know he is better cared for than most.


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## Yvonne G (Nov 21, 2012)

All my tortoises have the same access to their yards in winter and in summer. The only difference is that in the winter their houses/sheds are heated.

The leopard tortoise shed:















and this is the shed my Aldabran tortoises live in:









This is where Dudley lives:






Every night I make sure they're all inside their house then I shut their door. Every morning, rain or shine, cold and foggy or warm, I open their door. Sometimes they come out, sometimes they don't.


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## Tortus (Nov 21, 2012)

Thanks for the ideas. How do you heat the sheds? The only issue I would have is that it couldn't come out when it's in the 30's-40's. Which is most of the winter. We have a few unseasonably nice days here and there. Last January we had a couple days in the 70's. 

I guess a leopard would get too big for a table? I've seen large ones on tables at pet stores but they didn't look too energetic. I have an attached garage that I could turn into a tortoise room also as long as I can find a good way to heat it.

This is all in the future but I'd like to get some ideas now.


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## wellington (Nov 21, 2012)

I live in Chicago. When my leopard gets large enough to stay outside 24/7 summer and winter he will. I will insulate a shed really well and heat it. Not sure of the size yet. When they are big enough, I do think they should be kept in a large heated shed/house/garage or some sort.


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## volcom6981 (Nov 21, 2012)

*RE: People in cold/moderate climates with large tortoises: Can we see your enclosure*



Tortus said:


> Thanks for the ideas. How do you heat the sheds? The only issue I would have is that it couldn't come out when it's in the 30's-40's. Which is most of the winter. We have a few unseasonably nice days here and there. Last January we had a couple days in the 70's.
> 
> I guess a leopard would get too big for a table? I've seen large ones on tables at pet stores but they didn't look too energetic. I have an attached garage that I could turn into a tortoise room also as long as I can find a good way to heat it.
> 
> This is all in the future but I'd like to get some ideas now.



What they are saying is a shed that is heated in the winter is great for a tortoise. Cut a door in the shed, and every morning even the dead of winter go out and open the door up. Your tortoise will decide if they want to go out or not. Then at nights end go out make sure all tortoises are safe inside, and close the door. 

I live in PA this is what we have to do here as well and it's not to bad. We have hot humid summers, and cold snowy winters, well sometimes it snows.


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## Laura (Nov 21, 2012)

mine are like maggies and yvonnes for the most part.. THEY make the decision if they want to come our or not. Some day they do, some not.. I think that important.. not cooped up in a basement all winter..


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## Tortus (Nov 21, 2012)

volcom6981 said:


> What they are saying is a shed that is heated in the winter is great for a tortoise. Cut a door in the shed, and every morning even the dead of winter go out and open the door up. Your tortoise will decide if they want to go out or not.
> 
> I live in PA this is what we have to do here as well and it's not to bad. We have hot humid summers, and cold snowy winters, well sometimes it snows.



So it's safe for an adult tortoise to walk around outside in 30 degree weather?


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## volcom6981 (Nov 21, 2012)

*RE: People in cold/moderate climates with large tortoises: Can we see your enclosure*



Tortus said:


> So it's safe for an adult tortoise to walk around outside in 30 degree weather?



Most likely the tortoise will take one step outside and realize its too cold, and go back in where it's warm. Now if hits 50 degrees outside, they might take a lap around the yard and go back inside. If the shed is big enough to walk around he will have no problem staying in the shed when its cold outside.


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## Millerlite (Nov 21, 2012)

*RE: People in cold/moderate climates with large tortoises: Can we see your enclosure*

When torts are bigger they Tend to be a little more hardy. It's not unusual to see people posting there sulcatas trying to graze thru snow. Lol as long as they have a hide that's heated where they can escape the cold should be good. Also make sure they make it to the shed once sun starts going down and the temp starts dropping. Some people have lost toetoises because they didn't make it back to the heated area.


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## Yvonne G (Nov 21, 2012)

I used to have a picture of Dudley with frost on his back, but I can't find it now. They are smart enough to know that they're getting cold, and they go back inside on their own. I've been doing this with him ever since I got him at 35lbs. He now weighs a little over 100lbs. One of my leopards is only 5 years old and he still comes and goes on his own even on the coldest days.


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## *Barracuda_50* (Nov 22, 2012)

emysemys said:


> I used to have a picture of Dudley with frost on his back, but I can't find it now. They are smart enough to know that they're getting cold, and they go back inside on their own. I've been doing this with him ever since I got him at 35lbs. He now weighs a little over 100lbs. One of my leopards is only 5 years old and he still comes and goes on his own even on the coldest days.



Im not trying to be rude or anything so please dont take it that way but your in CA, us folks in the cold northern states are alot diffrent when it comes to winter months, sure we have had some mildish winters temps around zero but for the most part below zero and in the past up to -30 below zero with wind chill factor and nasty winds. Sure you can build a outdoor completely enclosed shed or such with heat regulated and such but better be ready for power outage durring winter storms if that happens and its zero or below then you risk chance of the torts freezing to death, with me i wont take the chance. If i have to build a large winter enclosure in my heated basement so be it. But you need to take into consideration the pros and cons of what northern winters are like.
Just my 2 cents worth..


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## Turtulas-Len (Nov 22, 2012)

The best way to describe where I live is, I'm a short boat ride down the Potomac River from Wash DC towards the Chesapeake Bay and we can get cold and snow, It is 28.5 degrees outside right now and I have 2 sulcatas outside in separate houses and they are very comfortable in their 78 plus degree temps that are measured at the top of their shell heights not on the floor where the mats are warmer than that, they both have room to get off the mats if they want to regulate their body temperature,The smaller house that Sylvia is in is using about 60 watts to attain a good temp for her to be comfortable, Walkers house is much larger and is using about 170 to 200 watts to keep him comfortable, Right now I am only using Stanfield Mats, a 80 watt maximum 1x3 ft in Sylvia's house and a 260 watt maximum 3x4 foot in Walkers house as the heat sources, but have other sources of heat to use if needed if and when it gets real cold and nasty, their doors are open, I have a double set of flaps as heat barriers and wind blocks that seems to work well.What I am saying is, If you want to keep them outside in cold weather it is possible with a little electricity and a lot of insulation. I have an emergency extension cord laid out in case of a power loss so it is easy to plug into the generator,I have used it once this year when we lost power from Sandy. Walker has come out to graze when the temperature was below freezing in the past,This is my first winter with Sylvia but she has come out to eat every day so far.


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## N2TORTS (Nov 23, 2012)

First and foremost is to build something water tight. Your torts worst enemy is a damp , cool enclosure.
One important factor in outdoor enclosures is the â€œRâ€ value / or insulating factor. The colder of area you live in the greater the value you will need. There are tons of insulations on the market all with different â€œr valuesâ€ as well as type and ease on installation. 
Another key factor I use is to â€œ layerâ€ ( just like we do in clothing) the inside of my enclosures providing warm ambient room temps as well as Hotter areas usually set aside for rest and sleeping. I achieve this by building another â€œ boxâ€ within the hut itself. It is also heated and can provide that extra warmth if the torts wants to seek it out ( which they do at night ). This is on a different timer / thermostat and can be manually turned on/off depending on the outside temps while still the â€œhutâ€ temps remain pretty consistent with the main heat source.
Here are just few enclosure examples past and presentâ€¦â€¦â€¦.





































( Cat seems to â€œ Dig itâ€ too! )










Now remember â€¦.this insulation factor works the same way in Summer time , keeping the â€œ inside hut tempsâ€ COOLER than the outdoor temps. ( of course no heat sources would be running) . Thus a double bonus for using the correct insulation.


Happy Building ! 

JD~


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## yagyujubei (Nov 23, 2012)

Well, I suppose you could move to California, where it's not cruel to have tortoises.

What I have done is build a room in the basement. It's 12x14. I have a wall shelf 30" wide on two sides for juveniles. The floor has 2" foam over the concrete with about 6" of soil on top of that. I heat the room with an oil radiator. I also use pig blankets and CHE's. I have tried in the past to heat separate outside buildings when I had exotic pheasants, but found it to be very expensive and unreliable.


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## N2TORTS (Nov 23, 2012)

yagyujubei said:


> Well, I suppose you could move to California, where it's not cruel to have tortoises.



***KEY WORDS MY FRIEND***........................I wouldnâ€™t think of owning a penguin~

JD~

PS....We have enough folks here already


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## Tortus (Nov 23, 2012)

The second poster made the cruel comment and said they shouldn't be in basements, and I wouldn't want to live in southern California. I've been there twice and it felt like a foreign country. 

There will be times during the winter in certain parts of the world where they won't be able to go outside, period. Keeping them in a shed doesn't seem much different to me than keeping them in a similar size enclosure in the house, be it in a basement or a garage. Except in the house you don't have to go out in 20 degree weather to take care of them. You can still take them out for a few minutes in freezing weather if you think it must be done.

Nice set-up BTW, N2TORTS. Even the cat likes it.


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## volcom6981 (Nov 23, 2012)

*RE: People in cold/moderate climates with large tortoises: Can we see your enclosure*

I don't think anyone is saying you can't keep him in a garage or basement as long as everything is set up ok. I think why alot of people like the outdoor shed idea, is because it gives your tortoise a choice whether to go out and graze or not. They are smart enough to know whether or not they want to venture outside, and chances are if it's really cold they won't.


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## Tortus (Nov 23, 2012)

I also think the outdoor shed thing is a good idea. This thread was mainly aimed at those who can't really do that during winter months, or it would be very difficult during some times of the year. We got so much snow a couple years ago that I couldn't even open the front door. It lasted for a couple weeks before finally melting to a decent level. 

I imagine if I had a tortoise shed I would have had to dig a pathway to it, then dig all the snow from around the door. And they'd have no way to walk around in almost 2 feet of snow, the dog had trouble, so it would be better if they had something indoors for situations like that. Or if we get a cold spell where it's in the teens for a while. That happens also. People in Canada and more northern states have it even worse.


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## BowandWalter (Nov 23, 2012)

*RE: People in cold/moderate climates with large tortoises: Can we see your enclosure*

When I have my own home I'd love to get a leopard, my future plan is to build him a room off of the house, like a sun room with a concrete dish base that I can grow stuff in, and a little door to an outside run. Most people don't have an architect for a father, and quite frankly that makes putting these ideas to form difficult. I'd go with basement, then if something terrible happens the tortoise is right there, we have lots of windstorms that bash through windows and knock down trees, going out in that is dangerous, it's safer in some instances to have them accessible from inside your home.


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## Laura (Nov 23, 2012)

the 'second poster' also said it was thier Personal Opinion. And I agree with them.. ;-)

If you lived in an apt, you wouldn't keep a horse there.


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## Tortus (Nov 23, 2012)

I think the poster who said move to California was being sarcastic since he lives in "Amish Country" (PA?) and built an enclosure in his basement. 

Keeping a leopard tortoise in the house for a few months isn't exactly like keeping a horse there. I would point out all the differences but I think they're obvious enough.


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## yagyujubei (Nov 23, 2012)

Maybe the second poster should simply shut up when she doesn't know what she is talking about, rather than accusing half of the country of cruelty. Just my personal opinion


Laura said:


> the 'second poster' also said it was thier Personal Opinion. And I agree with them.. ;-)
> 
> If you lived in an apt, you wouldn't keep a horse there.


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## Tortus (Nov 23, 2012)

yagyujubei said:


> Maybe the second poster should simply shut up when she doesn't know what she is talking about, rather than accusing half of the country of cruelty. Just my personal opinion
> 
> 
> Laura said:
> ...



Well that's her opinion, but she seems to be saying only people in warmer climates should own tortoises. 

I'm sure ALL reptiles would like to be outside year round. Lots of species like to roam. Does that happen? 

I think if someone can build a large enough enclosure for winter, or whenever, where they can feel somewhat comfortable, it should be fine.

And by the way, my local zoo keeps all their herps in a reptile house during the winter. Then when the weather warms up they go back in their outdoor enclosures.


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## TortoiseBoy1999 (Nov 23, 2012)

*RE: People in cold/moderate climates with large tortoises: Can we see your enclosure*



emysemys said:


> All my tortoises have the same access to their yards in winter and in summer. The only difference is that in the winter their houses/sheds are heated.
> 
> The leopard tortoise shed:
> 
> ...



Wow, you truly have a tortoise haven! I like Dudley


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## thecrawlingchaos (Nov 23, 2012)

Tortus said:


> yagyujubei said:
> 
> 
> > Maybe the second poster should simply shut up when she doesn't know what she is talking about, rather than accusing half of the country of cruelty. Just my personal opinion
> ...



The zoo comment is interesting. My home zoo is Cincinnati, and they keep Galapagos, radiated, and redfoots of considerable size year round. The Galapagos group is young, but still the torts are a good size. Louisville Zoo up the road also keeps huge Aldabras and sulcatas. I'm pretty sure Louisville utilizes a shed year-round. Cincinnati, however keeps many of their torts in large indoor stalls with MVBs and additional heat in the winter. 

I understand that it would be ideal to have my guy outside year round if possible, but that's quite a risk IMO. We had a transformer blow and electricity for the entire block for 12 hours last February. I would lose my mind if I had a tortoise outside in that situation. 

My tortoise room is a bedroom on the second floor of my house, so no basements or garages. I'm starting with an 8x4 for my (almost) 2 year old leopard. It's a big room, so I can easily expand the enclosure as needed. I've even given thought to tiling the entire room and allowing him to free roam, but that's a bit down the road at the moment.


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## Tortus (Nov 23, 2012)

I thought about using a bedroom also and putting something on the floor to block moisture. Not sure what though. Right now I'm using the spare mostly for storage. 

I did this with an iguana years ago but it mainly stayed in the branches and stuff I had for it to climb on, and it only pottied in one spot. Didn't really worry much about the floor.

But yeah this is down the road so who knows what I'll do by then. It will definitely be spending nice days outdoors.


Although I have a nice section of the back yard picked out to set it up outdoors, one thing that concerns me is dogs. I looked out the back window one day and saw a whole pack of them on my porch.

I'll have to make sure whatever I put around the tortoise area is high enough that dogs can't jump over it. It also has to look nice or the neighbors will report it to the town. This old man down the street is a busy body with no life. So I can't just stick an ugly chain link fence in part of the yard.


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## Cowboy_Ken (Nov 23, 2012)

*RE: People in cold/moderate climates with large tortoises: Can we see your enclosure*

I'll have to make sure whatever I put around the tortoise area is high enough that dogs can't jump over it. It also has to look nice or the neighbors will report it to the town. This old man down the street is a busy body with no life. So I can't just stick an ugly chain link fence in part of the yard.[/QUOTE]

I would use a hot line for the dogs. Also helps with raccoons, skunks, and possums. And them meddling neighbor kids.


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## JayMillz (Nov 28, 2012)

http://www.tortoiseforum.org/thread-56982.html#axzz2DXhrsn7q

Here's what I did for mine in MN. It broke my budget and it still obviously too small so be prepared to drop some bucks if you're going to build something in your basement. Next winter mine will be 8 X 8 instead of the 8 X 4 it is now.


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## Tortus (Nov 28, 2012)

JayMillz said:


> http://www.tortoiseforum.org/thread-56982.html#axzz2DXhrsn7q
> 
> Here's what I did for mine in MN. It broke my budget and it still obviously too small so be prepared to drop some bucks if you're going to build something in your basement. Next winter mine will be 8 X 8 instead of the 8 X 4 it is now.



I was thinking about doing something similar in my garage. It would be useless in the summer though since it gets too hot in there (so hot the fridge gets warm), but that would be outdoor time. 

Do most people buy those pig mats for their larger tortoises? I looked into them and was puzzled why the temperature control is sold separately. I guess it would be hard to use a thermostat since the tort would knock the probe around.


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## lynnedit (Nov 29, 2012)

Yes, most people buy pig mats for the larger torts, Sulcatas, etc.

I _thought _ there were new ones with built in thermostats, but I can't find them.
Brands used on TFO are Kane, Stanfield.

And the Tom also likes the Radiant heat panels to provide heat from above. Not as likely to be intense and risk burns.
http://www.reptilebasics.com/rbi-radiant-heat-panels


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