# High humidity but my Red Foot sleeps in water dish all day long...



## Whayla (Mar 26, 2014)

I've had my Red Foot tortoise, Tortuga, for about two months now. She is probably only about 5 inches. She's an early bird, so about 6-6:30 she's awake and is usually just sprawled out in the sunshine on the substrate. At around 8:30-10:30 I feed her and as soon as she is done eating she hops into the water dish. I know that Red Footed Tortoises urinate and defecate in water, and since her water is relatively warm from the UVB light above, I figured she was just digesting and urinating after eating. She never defecates in her water dish though, only when I soak her in a separate bathing tub. I also change her water dish every 2-3 days.
Recently, she has gotten into the water dish after eating as normal, but continues to stay there literally ALL DAY LONG. The light on her turns off at night, and sometimes I'll find her still passed out in the water dish after the "sun" has gone down. Once or twice, she stayed in there all night long. I was afraid she was going to drown! She has continued this behavior for awhile now.... eating, then napping all day long in the water. 
I keep the humidity up to 60-80% at all times, and I flood the tank weekly because Tortuga likes to burrow in the substrate.
I've never had a problem with the temps/humidity.... I'm a little paranoid so I use multiple humidity and temperature gauges in the tank along with a laser thermometer to be 100% sure. 
She eats beautifully and is fed a healthy varied diet. 

Is this a bad thing?? Am I doing something wrong or is there something I should look for? Is she at risk for shell rot or anything that I should be particularly concerned about from sitting in the water all day long? What should I check or possibly do differently?
Or honestly..... am I just a paranoid tortoise parent?  
Much appreciated.


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## wellington (Mar 26, 2014)

What are the temps all over and are you reading them with a reliable gauge? Those little disc things that most pet stores sell are not reliable. RF are prone to shell rot. Sleeping in a water dish all day is not a good thing. There is a reason and it needs too be corrected.


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## Whayla (Mar 26, 2014)

Right under her UVB bulb, where her water dish is, the temperature reads at 82-86 degrees F (depending on if I'm reading the temp of the water or the top of Tortuga's shell). In the cooler areas of her tank the temps range from 75-80 degrees F. I have three gauges in the tank, all from different reptile brands for triple check accuracy, along with the fact I have a infrared thermometer I mentioned earlier for 100% accuracy. If that isn't reliable, i'm not sure what is. 
Any suggestions?


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## wellington (Mar 26, 2014)

Sorry, I skipped through your first post the first time. Everything sounds good. No, I don't know what to tell you. If she were mine, I would make sure that before lights out, she was out of the water. Other then that, just keep a closer eye out then normal for shell rot. Hopefully others might have some ideas.


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## Whayla (Mar 26, 2014)

Ok, thank you very much for your responses. I'll have to babysit her a little bit more at night time and hopefully that will help her see that sleeping in her water dish is not an okay thing. I personally believe that she has never had a water dish in her tank big enough to bath in before I adopted her. When I first got it for her she acted as if it was a whole new world. She looks so comfy and relaxed in the water. She closes her eyes and sprawls out all of her limbs as if she has never been so comfortable in her entire life. I started to think that she possibly just gets too comfy and falls asleep? Not realizing that she is in water constantly?
Anyway, shell rot is honestly my main concern. I took Tortuga into a local pet store today that specialize in reptiles with concern of shell rot and felt their answers did not do justice to my questions and concerns. I am going to take a photo and upload it tomorrow, maybe that could answer a little more for me and everyone else. 
I have researched that when RF's are ill (say with shell rot), that they tend to spend more time self-soaking, maybe thinking that will help in the long run. Unfortunately, if something such as shell rot is going on, long water exposure is really not helping in the long run. Has anyone heard this? I can only assume she is trying to tell me something and I am just not seeing it....


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## mikeh (Mar 26, 2014)

*Re: RE: High humidity but my Red Foot sleeps in water dish all day long...*



Whayla said:


> Right under her UVB bulb, where her water dish is, the temperature reads at 82-86 degrees F (depending on if I'm reading the temp of the water or the top of Tortuga's shell). In the cooler areas of her tank the temps range from 75-80 degrees F. I have three gauges in the tank, all from different reptile brands for triple check accuracy, along with the fact I have a infrared thermometer I mentioned earlier for 100% accuracy. If that isn't reliable, i'm not sure what is.
> Any suggestions?



All the answers are in your first sentence.

Move the water dish away from MVB. It should not be there in the first place. 

The warm water invites the tortoise to stay in it after lights out. It also accelerates bacteria growth. 

Spending all day under MVB in warm water points to overall temps that are a tad low.


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## Whayla (Mar 27, 2014)

Moving the water dish right now, thank you. That is very helpful information. Unfortunately, I do think she has caught a case of shell rot from my horrible mistake... I'll post a picture for verification, but I'm pretty sure that is what is going on. 

I've never felt so terrible in my life.. 

I guess my next question is how do I post or upload photo's to a post such as this? So I can show what I am seeing.


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## Whayla (Mar 27, 2014)

I've searched for an answer to my attaching photo's problem, and most of what I have found says that I should see an "attach" button when I am writing a new post. This is not the case, unless I am blind? I understand that photos have to be a certain size in order to upload them, but I can't seem to find the attachment button to even try. If someone could help me out with this issue I am having I would much appreciate it. 

I'd like to get photos up so everyone can see what is going on with my baby Tortuga, and so I can treat whatever is going on accurately and effectively. With shell rot I know there are multiple types, such as bacterial or fungal, but I am not expert on what exactly is happening with my little girl. Please, someone help me..... I'm terrified....


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## mikeh (Mar 27, 2014)

Post your inquiry about photos in 
"Help and Feedback" section. 
Sorry I can't help, I use mobile app.


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## ascott (Mar 27, 2014)

You go to "new reply" tab, click it.
You will enter your reply in the big box, as you have to do your posts,
Then scroll down below the big box where you entered your post,

Attachments section;

Click on Choose File,
find your saved photo and click on it, it will then show up next to the Choose File tab, go to the right of that and click on Add Attachment,
It will attach, then you will also see an option to insert the attachment into the body of the post....you can do that if you like or simply leave the attachment as is....

I would have to also add, based on the info you have provided here---I would bump the basking spot temp to reach 95-100 (I have redfoot torts here that love to bask under that higher temp on and off all day) and the "middle" should be just a step lower in temp, like a 10 degree fade or so...and the _coolest dry side/area_ should be closer to 78 ish (again, this is the cooler DRY side/end) you see, while this is a tort that loves access to humidity it is also just as important that the tort should be able to provide a dry out to help maintain a healthy shell....I would venture to say that if you are seeing any shell rot, it is due to the wetness of the entire enclosure and not the water dish...well, I would be sure to change the water out each and every day at least once (I change out 2 times a day--am and pm) as you say you currently do it every 2 to 3 days...there is another potential area for bacteria growth....

I have one of the Redfoot torts here that the water dish is directly below the basking lamp (the tort will lay in that dish under that light for a long period of time, long periods during the day) and it gets so warm/hot that the water literally vapes into the air of the enclosure, the tort appears to really enjoy this....however, the tort will get too warm (as should be with proper basking temps) and eventually will move down the temp grade in the enclosure until the tort ends back up each night in the cool dry end....

If you keep the water changed out, raise the temp at that basking spot located over the water dish to appropriate basking temps (95-100) and also offer a dry out area where the humidity is not extreme and the substrate is dry....your tort will have grades of temp/levels of humidity available to use to regulate what it needs....

The redfoot torts here will urinate/poo in their dish from time to time, however they usually will poo right on the substrate, not every tort waits to do big business in their water dish nor in their soak dish, but where ever their body temp has achieved the correct balance to move it on out....

If you get a pic posted of the plastron we can peek to see if there is indeed any shell rot...


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## Whayla (Mar 27, 2014)

Thank you so much!!!! I was doing a quick reply, which I now understand does not have an attachment upload available. I was just looking in the wrong place.


Well, this is it. It does not look good to me....
I went out the second I noticed and bought a betadine solution. I used a soft bristled toothbrush to brush the effected area with the solution, as instructed by other forums I've been reading all morning. I do not have any anti-fungal or creams like that yet. I want to be sure I'm treating her correctly before I start getting wild on chemicals.



From this photo - How bad do you think it is? I'm hoping I caught it early enough... but from my gut feeling I don't think "fast enough" is truly not fast enough...

What are your suggestions or prescriptions I can go about "doctoring" her up.....
I'm just so scared. I love her more than I think I've loved any animal in my life and I feel horrible. Any info is helpful. 

Thanks again for the replies, I really appreciate it.


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## Whayla (Mar 27, 2014)

This is perfect advice, I really appreciate your input. Thank you so much!!

Right now I am busy building a tortoise table that will allow me a lot more space to make sure I'm creating the correct environment for her. I feel this will solve my issue, and gives me a lot of motivation to work harder and faster. 
You've given me a lot of hope and a lot of good advice I'll be taking into account.

What's the diagnosis on shell rot? Best ways to treat? And while I am finishing her tortoise table, what would you say is the best place to keep her temporarily? Should I be keeping her completely dry while she is ill?


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## ascott (Mar 27, 2014)

I only see discoloration of the plastron and I don't see active shell rot....however, if you want to be certain D) then you can use a soft bristle toothbrush and warm water...first offer a warm water soak for about 20-30 minutes, then gently brush the plastron...then rinse her off....then apply some antifungal cream (athlete's foot cream) to the area of concern ( I would remove the water soaking dish after this step, so the tort does not ingest the cream if it is soaked off into the water dish)....and you can do this for about 7-10 days....however, I don't really see shell rot....perhaps you can wait a moment and see if some of the others see it differently.... 

The older I get, the less offended I get when someone sees something a bit clearer than I do on the screen....


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## mikeh (Mar 28, 2014)

It looks like stains from colored substrate or could be beginning of shell rot. Could you take a picture without the flash? Also picture of the enclosure clearly showing the substrate. What are you using for substrate?
If it is shell rot its not horrible, nothing to panic about. Treat as per ascott and remediate husbandry for future prevention. Tortuga will be just fine. 

FYI: betadine solution is to be only used once initially. It is not to be used daily.


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## Whayla (Mar 28, 2014)

I will upload photos as soon as I can!

I use a coconut coir/cypress mulch blend. I believe correcting my issue of not creating a better "dry" area for Tortuga will eliminate this problem, but with the added room of her tortoise table, I have faith that I can make differing environments a LOT better. 

I have only used betadine once, because I researched before actually going through with it. Call me overprotective, but I would never put chemicals on my baby without clarifying procedure or prescription first. Thank you for the warning, though!!  And thank you for the positive thoughts about my baby girl, that will motivate the healing process!

I appreciate the responses and advice, I'll post better photos in just a moment.


Ok, here we go. No flash. 

So, what's the diagnosis? What creams has everyone tried, and what works the best for my situation? Should I be keeping her on newspaper or something out of her tank for now, so that the chemicals don't get everywhere? 





Thanks again for all your help, Tortoise Forum! I look forward to your advice.


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## mikeh (Mar 28, 2014)

Better pictures show that there is good amount of shell rot. Treat it as discussed, remediate husbandry and tort will be fine. 

Have you adjusted day time temps?

I don't recall your night time temps. Do you use any heat for night?


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## Whayla (Mar 28, 2014)

Sigh.  That's what I suspected.
The light is closer so she can bask in a warmer temp, and also I have moved her water dish from under her light for now and she has yet to self-soak, which is probably a good thing for now. I am going to remove it completely when I start treatment, but I'm curious if I should remove her from her enclosure and have her resting on newspaper or very slightly misted paper towels so as to dry-lock the issue? Possibly for only a week? 

When I check my temps at 6 AM they read 70 degrees F, but I do have a heating pad under the tank so it doesn't get too cold.

I've read about two types of cream for shell rot. Now that you have a better view of the situation, is Chlorhexadine (Nolvasan) a better way to go or should I use an anti-fungal such as a clotrimazole cream?

I just want to be sure I'm treating her correctly and any input helps.


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