# Hibernating Russian Tortoises



## Reptile Lover

This may be a stupid question, but I was wondering if it was mandatory to hibernate Russian Tortoises. I haven't hibernated them before, but am looking into it for next year. I've learned a bit about hibernation, but if you had any helpful tips or tricks that would be great. 

Thanks!


----------



## russian/sulcata/tortoise

People have different opinions on hibernation. Some think hibernation is a must and others think its not mandatory. In my opinion i don't think hibernation is mandatory, i have never hibernated my Russians and they are in perfect health.


----------



## ascott

http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/is-hibernation-absolutely-required.38255/

Lots of different feelings and thoughts on this subject....enjoy the reading....lol..


----------



## Yvonne G

Hi *Reptile Lâ™¡ver:
*
My personal opinion is this - I have so many turtles and tortoises that I welcome a bit of a respite from them during the winter. If I keep a species that hibernates, then I allow them to do so. Since all my tortoises live outside, it would be quite a hardship on me to have to set up all those indoor habitats to accommodate keeping them awake during the winter. Just the Russians alone, not counting the other hibernating species I keep, would mean setting up 4 large indoor habitats. To say nothing of the added expense of running the lights and heat. 

Is it necessary? No. Is it easier on the keeper? Certainly!!

If you only have one or two tortoises and can provide a large enough indoor enclosure, and can afford the added electric bill, and if you WANT to keep them awake, then do so. They don't need to hibernate in order to keep healthy.


----------



## Tom

It is not "mandatory", but I think it is good for them if done correctly. It is what they have evolved to deal with for millions of years.


----------



## Nicoli

I put my Russian tortoise Nicoli in my garage to hibernate but i still feed him.


----------



## johnsonnboswell

Nicoli said:


> I put my Russian tortoise Nicoli in my garage to hibernate but i still feed him.


This worries me. If he is eating, he is not hibernating.


----------



## lq558

maybe hibenate in a semiconductor refrigerator is a good choice


----------



## RainsOn

I've read hibernation is only necessary to keep them prepared for mating. But, I am with Tom on this - nature's way is the best way.


----------



## Yvonne G

Nicoli said:


> I put my Russian tortoise Nicoli in my garage to hibernate but i still feed him.



I don't mean to take this thread off topic, but I felt I had to address this statement. A tortoise that eats is not hibernating. If a tortoise is asleep for the winter, that means he has stopped eating and has cleaned out his digestive tract so that food left in there doesn't rot while he's sleeping. If your tortoise is eating, and yet you have him in a cooler spot, you are running the risk of having a sick tortoise on your hands. They need to be kept warm in order for the food to digest.


----------



## puffy137

I leave it entirely up to them. If it gets cold enough they won't show for food , if the temp suits them they will show. My babies don't go to sleep per se , but they might miss a day of feeding..If I had the botheration of lamps .heaters thermometers etc etc I should give up torts & take up sky diving instead.


----------



## Tom

RainsOn said:


> I've read hibernation is only necessary to keep them prepared for mating. But, I am with Tom on this - nature's way is the best way.



Several keepers have told me they still get babies without hibernating them. It does tend to make breeding and egg laying come at more predictable ties though.


----------



## AZTorts

Do tortoises know when to stop eating in preparation for hibernation? Or are we supposed to know when to stop feeding them in preparation for hibernation? My turtles seem to be hibernating, haven't seen them in a few days. The three toed is the first to disappear, then the ornate a week or so later. My AZ desert tortoise yearlings still seem to want to eat, although not as much. It's still warm here though. I want to hibernate my tortoise yearlings inside but don't know when to do it. I put them out during the day still and bring them in in the late afternoon.


----------



## turtlemanfla88

In Florida our weather is anything ,but normal. When you have eighties during the day and forties at night. I stop feeding my Russians when they stop and bury under. ,but in my opinion and observation it is not just temperature I think the length of natural daylight is a factor to consider also.


----------



## AZTorts

turtlemanfla88 said:


> In Florida our weather is anything ,but normal. When you have eighties during the day and forties at night. I stop feeding my Russians when they stop and bury under. ,but in my opinion and observation it is not just temperature I think the length of natural daylight is a factor to consider also.



We were still in the nineties on Oct. 31st. Finally today it was only in the eighties. Yet the box turtles have been a no show. I think it has to do with the length of natural daylight too. 

So as long as they're up and willing to eat, you feed?


----------



## Yellow Turtle01

ascott said:


> http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/is-hibernation-absolutely-required.38255/
> 
> Lots of different feelings and thoughts on this subject....enjoy the reading....lol..


That thread got 'complicated' fast...


----------



## Tom

AZTorts said:


> Do tortoises know when to stop eating in preparation for hibernation? Or are we supposed to know when to stop feeding them in preparation for hibernation? My turtles seem to be hibernating, haven't seen them in a few days. The three toed is the first to disappear, then the ornate a week or so later. My AZ desert tortoise yearlings still seem to want to eat, although not as much. It's still warm here though. I want to hibernate my tortoise yearlings inside but don't know when to do it. I put them out during the day still and bring them in in the late afternoon.



Could be either or both.

Here is a reply I did for someone else's thread yesterday about this subject. Maybe it will help you too AZTorts.

"They will not be able to hibernate at room temp. Its too warm. You will need to decide to either keep them up, or hibernate them properly. Right now they are in a bit of a "limbo", and that is not good. I've used the following methods for dozens of DTs from babies to adults, as well as many other tortoise and reptile species that come from areas with a natural hibernation period.

While I have kept hibernating species awake through winter and I know others have successfully done it too, it is my opinion that species that hibernate in the wild should also hibernate in captivity. It just needs to be done correctly. Leaving them outside to figure it out and deal with the rigors of winter in the small spaces (like backyards) that we stick them in, is not my idea of doing it "correctly". I know far too many that have died this way. Don't let these horror stories from people who did not properly prepare, or hibernate their animals in a safe, controlled way, scare you. Hibernation is totally natural and totally safe when a few simple guidelines are observed. Simple Guidelines:
1. Bring them down, and up, gradually.
2. Make *sure* their gut is empty before dropping temps. Two weeks of no food with the normal warm temps should do it.
3. Make sure they are well hydrated by soaking them, before and after hibernation.
4. Make sure the temperature is consistent and cold enough for the _entire_ hibernation time.
5. Don't let them do it in a self dug burrow in your backyard. _*NOT*_ safe!

To keep them up: You will need to keep them warm, day and night. The enclosure needs to be nice and bright too, so add a 6500K florescent tube, if need be. I set lights to come on an hour or two before the sun comes up and stay on for a good two hours after the sun goes down. Daily warm soaks, or every other day, seems to help convince their brains that its not sleepy time. I would still give them outside time all winter long as long as its sunny and warm-ish. The sun really helps and we have such nice mild winters here in SoCal.

To hibernate them: The dangerous parts of hibernation (flooding, burrow collapse, rodents, temperature extremes, etc..) can all be eliminated by bringing them inside into controlled conditions and prepping them correctly. While they have adapted to survive these conditions out in the wild for millennia, our back yards are not the wild. Not even close. The shallow burrows they construct in our yards are not enough to protect them from the whims of a cruel mother nature, and as Yvonne adeptly pointed out, many of them don't survive hibernation in the wild, or outdoors in captivity either. I have hibernated all ages of DTs using the following methods: It is often said that "tortoises do better outside". True some of the time in some instances, but not all of the time in all instances. Most babies actually do better inside most of the time. As such, when night temps really start to drop, as they did about two weeks ago, I bring small hibernating species of tortoises inside to their indoor set ups every evening. I feed them up for a good two or three weeks, and soak them daily or every other day. Then I leave the timers and heat and everything on and running, but I quit feeding them. I give them around two weeks with no food, daily soaks, and warm day time temps, as usual. After those two weeks, I start adjusting the light timers down and raise the fixtures a bit to lower basking temps. I let night temps drop as low as is practical for indoors. I'll do this for another week or two. Then I put them into their individual hibernacula. I use plastic shoe boxes, or something similar, with a couple of inches of substrate on the bottom. I keep them dry at this time. In the past I've used non-functioning fridges or freezers laid on their backs in a cool area to keep the shoe boxes in. Currently the floor of my garage stays around 50-55 all winter and I've used that for the last few years. The problem is that we keep having these weird warm winters with daily highs in the 80s or 90s sometimes, for days or weeks on end. Good for my non-hibernating species, but not so good for the hibernators. This year I'm getting them a dedicated fridge, so I don't have to worry about the weather and I won't have to try to fight the temperature outside. I'll set it to around 45 degrees F. I let first timers go for 8-10 weeks under these controlled conditions. Older ones will go for 12-16 weeks. I watch the temps, but I don't mess with them during hibernation. When the weather starts to warm up, I gradually warm up the fridge and let warmer air into the hibernation area, and at some point after a few days, I pull them out, soak them in shallow room temp water, and put them back into their indoor enclosures with no heat. Just room temp. I soak daily for a bout two weeks. After a few days, I will turn the lights on. I leave the fixtures at their higher adjustment at first and gradually, over the course of a few days, lower them back down to get the right basking temps. After the tortoises activity level comes up, and they start moving around more, I will begin offering food, and letting them run around in their outdoor pens on warmer days, but I still bring them in to escape the cold nights. For older/bigger tortoises that can't come back inside, I simply use an outdoor heated night box to do just about the same thing. The night box more or less takes the place of the indoor enclosure and gives me a way to keep them warmer at night while preparing for hibernation or coming out of it.

The above methods have worked perfectly for me for many years with a wide variety of reptile species. The only time I ever lost an animal during hibernation is when I took the advice of a very knowledgeable man, who didn't understand our climate, and let my tegus hibernate outside as he did in his climate. I lost two out of three that year. It was heartbreaking.

I don't have set dates for any of this, and I sort of go by "feel" and the weather on either end of hibernation. If we have a long summer with a warm fall, I wait longer to put them down. If we have an early spring, I wake them up sooner. Generally I try to get them down by December, and get them up sometime in March.


I know that is a lot to read. Please feel free to ask lots of questions. We will help you, whichever way you decide to go."


----------



## AZTorts

Tom said:


> Could be either or both.
> 
> Here is a reply I did for someone else's thread yesterday about this subject. Maybe it will help you too AZTorts.
> 
> "They will not be able to hibernate at room temp. Its too warm. You will need to decide to either keep them up, or hibernate them properly. Right now they are in a bit of a "limbo", and that is not good. I've used the following methods for dozens of DTs from babies to adults, as well as many other tortoise and reptile species that come from areas with a natural hibernation period.
> 
> While I have kept hibernating species awake through winter and I know others have successfully done it too, it is my opinion that species that hibernate in the wild should also hibernate in captivity. It just needs to be done correctly. Leaving them outside to figure it out and deal with the rigors of winter in the small spaces (like backyards) that we stick them in, is not my idea of doing it "correctly". I know far too many that have died this way. Don't let these horror stories from people who did not properly prepare, or hibernate their animals in a safe, controlled way, scare you. Hibernation is totally natural and totally safe when a few simple guidelines are observed. Simple Guidelines:
> 1. Bring them down, and up, gradually.
> 2. Make *sure* their gut is empty before dropping temps. Two weeks of no food with the normal warm temps should do it.
> 3. Make sure they are well hydrated by soaking them, before and after hibernation.
> 4. Make sure the temperature is consistent and cold enough for the _entire_ hibernation time.
> 5. Don't let them do it in a self dug burrow in your backyard. _*NOT*_ safe!
> 
> To keep them up: You will need to keep them warm, day and night. The enclosure needs to be nice and bright too, so add a 6500K florescent tube, if need be. I set lights to come on an hour or two before the sun comes up and stay on for a good two hours after the sun goes down. Daily warm soaks, or every other day, seems to help convince their brains that its not sleepy time. I would still give them outside time all winter long as long as its sunny and warm-ish. The sun really helps and we have such nice mild winters here in SoCal.
> 
> To hibernate them: The dangerous parts of hibernation (flooding, burrow collapse, rodents, temperature extremes, etc..) can all be eliminated by bringing them inside into controlled conditions and prepping them correctly. While they have adapted to survive these conditions out in the wild for millennia, our back yards are not the wild. Not even close. The shallow burrows they construct in our yards are not enough to protect them from the whims of a cruel mother nature, and as Yvonne adeptly pointed out, many of them don't survive hibernation in the wild, or outdoors in captivity either. I have hibernated all ages of DTs using the following methods: It is often said that "tortoises do better outside". True some of the time in some instances, but not all of the time in all instances. Most babies actually do better inside most of the time. As such, when night temps really start to drop, as they did about two weeks ago, I bring small hibernating species of tortoises inside to their indoor set ups every evening. I feed them up for a good two or three weeks, and soak them daily or every other day. Then I leave the timers and heat and everything on and running, but I quit feeding them. I give them around two weeks with no food, daily soaks, and warm day time temps, as usual. After those two weeks, I start adjusting the light timers down and raise the fixtures a bit to lower basking temps. I let night temps drop as low as is practical for indoors. I'll do this for another week or two. Then I put them into their individual hibernacula. I use plastic shoe boxes, or something similar, with a couple of inches of substrate on the bottom. I keep them dry at this time. In the past I've used non-functioning fridges or freezers laid on their backs in a cool area to keep the shoe boxes in. Currently the floor of my garage stays around 50-55 all winter and I've used that for the last few years. The problem is that we keep having these weird warm winters with daily highs in the 80s or 90s sometimes, for days or weeks on end. Good for my non-hibernating species, but not so good for the hibernators. This year I'm getting them a dedicated fridge, so I don't have to worry about the weather and I won't have to try to fight the temperature outside. I'll set it to around 45 degrees F. I let first timers go for 8-10 weeks under these controlled conditions. Older ones will go for 12-16 weeks. I watch the temps, but I don't mess with them during hibernation. When the weather starts to warm up, I gradually warm up the fridge and let warmer air into the hibernation area, and at some point after a few days, I pull them out, soak them in shallow room temp water, and put them back into their indoor enclosures with no heat. Just room temp. I soak daily for a bout two weeks. After a few days, I will turn the lights on. I leave the fixtures at their higher adjustment at first and gradually, over the course of a few days, lower them back down to get the right basking temps. After the tortoises activity level comes up, and they start moving around more, I will begin offering food, and letting them run around in their outdoor pens on warmer days, but I still bring them in to escape the cold nights. For older/bigger tortoises that can't come back inside, I simply use an outdoor heated night box to do just about the same thing. The night box more or less takes the place of the indoor enclosure and gives me a way to keep them warmer at night while preparing for hibernation or coming out of it.
> 
> The above methods have worked perfectly for me for many years with a wide variety of reptile species. The only time I ever lost an animal during hibernation is when I took the advice of a very knowledgeable man, who didn't understand our climate, and let my tegus hibernate outside as he did in his climate. I lost two out of three that year. It was heartbreaking.
> 
> I don't have set dates for any of this, and I sort of go by "feel" and the weather on either end of hibernation. If we have a long summer with a warm fall, I wait longer to put them down. If we have an early spring, I wake them up sooner. Generally I try to get them down by December, and get them up sometime in March.
> 
> 
> I know that is a lot to read. Please feel free to ask lots of questions. We will help you, whichever way you decide to go."




We're finally getting some cool weather. I put the torts outside hoping the cooler weather will help get them in the mood for hibernation. I will be giving them their daily soak inside now because I think it's too cool for it outside. Although, we are supposed to be well up into the eighties this week. 

Based on things you had told me before Tom, I had already decided to hibernate the tortoises inside. The people who gave them to me did not hibernate them last year when they were just hatchlings. I had already bought 4 small cardboard shipping boxes for them. I just need to prepare them. What do you use for substrate in your hibernation boxes? And what about humidity? Those are two questions I have off the top of my head. Just stopping feeding them when they still want to eat makes me nervous.


----------



## Tom

I prefer coco chips, if I can find it. If not, I use orchid bark. In years past I used Sani-Chips. I prefer to keep them dry during hibernation. The low temps make things pretty humid all on their own too. With all my soaks before and after hibernation, this has never been an issue.


----------



## AZTorts

Tom said:


> I prefer coco chips, if I can find it. If not, I use orchid bark. In years past I used Sani-Chips. I prefer to keep them dry during hibernation. The low temps make things pretty humid all on their own too. With all my soaks before and after hibernation, this has never been an issue.




One of the things you said that makes it seem a little less scary is that you only hibernate the first timers for 8-10 weeks. Mine are yearlings but it will be their first time hibernating. Since they are still pretty active, especially the two biggest ones, I won't worry about them still being up. It's usually the coldest here from about mid Dec to mid Feb. As long as we're still having mostly warm days I'll keep putting them outside on the warm days and leaving them in with their light on the colder days. If I see they are really slowing down then I will stop feeding and prepare them for hibernation. If I do it now they will be brought out of hibernation when it's the coldest time of year. Does my plan make sense? Of course I'm keeping up the soaks too.


----------



## Tom

AZTorts said:


> Does my plan make sense?



Yes. Perfect sense. That is the advantage of having an indoor _*and*_ and outdoor enclosure. I am doing this exact same thing with my twenty 1-2 year old russians. I brought them back indoors a little over a week ago and I am feeding the bejesus out of them and soaking daily. They had slowed wayyyy down on the eating outside due to the colder night temps and shorter days, but since being brought back in, they are cleaning their plates daily again. I intend to fatten them up for another two weeks, then clean them out, cool them and get them sleeping in their fridge by early to mid December. Then using the same indoor enclosures, I will wake them late Feb. and gradually get them back up to speed and eating. Once the warm temps return they will get longer and longer periods outside until I can start leaving them out 24/7 again like I did all summer this past year.

Our day time temps are fine for them most of the year here. Its the night temps that prevent me from letting them live outside longer. We were 80 degrees today, but night temps tonight will be low 40s to high 30s. I'm considering adding some heat to their night boxes, so I can leave them outside more. I would only need to heat it to 60ish to accomplish what I need. I think a RHP on the box top coupled with a thermostat would do the job nicely.


----------



## AZTorts

Twenty? Wow! LOL I thought having 4 torts and 2 boxies was a lot. LOL Anyway, thanks so much Tom. I need to find more things for mine to eat now because the grape and pumpkin vines are dying back. They seemed to like those, especially the grape leaves and ruella flowers the most. Our low temp for tonight is supposed to be in the mid 50s. But I've been bringing them in every night anyway. I've only let them camp out a couple of nights since I got them last May.


----------



## MichaelL

turtlemanfla88 said:


> In Florida our weather is anything ,but normal. When you have eighties during the day and forties at night. I stop feeding my Russians when they stop and bury under. ,but in my opinion and observation it is not just temperature I think the length of natural daylight is a factor to consider also.


Agreed


----------



## Tortoise MasterMan

While not mandatory, hibernating is what they would do in the wild, so if it was me, thats what I would do here.


----------

