# For Allegra- the torts then and now



## Madkins007 (May 15, 2011)

I've had four of Allegra's 'cherry head' Red-foots now for about a year and I have owed her pictures for some time. I was hoping my photog daughter could help, but I did not want to wait any longer.

ATTICUS- 





7-2010, 7cm, 73gr





5-2011, 11.4cm, 274gr


BALATHON-




7-2010, 7.2cm, 69gr





5-2011, 12.2cm, 320gr

I hate to admit it, but I usually get Atticus and Balathon mixed up until I match up some of the carapace markings.

CHELAN




7-2010, 7.2cm, 62gr





5-2011, 12.4cm, 316gr

Chelan was the first to show marbling, and is the most heavily marked.

DUKE (Black Tartarian)




7-2010, 6.9cm, 55gr





5-2011, 12.2cm, 303gr

Black Tartarian has always had a definite crease behind his head which is probably why he continually plots world domination. When he wants to go under the radar, he goes by the alias 'Duke'. 

..................................

The names come from cherry varieties, and run ABCD... except of course for the evil one who had to break that rule, although his alias follows it.

Balathon is very slightly bumpy but the others are pretty smooth. I do not mist them directly, but the habitat is almost always heavily condensed so they are getting good humidity. They are needing a bigger habitat but the Tortarium posted elsewhere has places to climb and lots of good hides. The diet is like what I post on the Library- I try to offer a balanced, varied diet with the right supplementation.

Probably due to the heavy humidity, I usually have some minor shell rot a couple times lately. It is not progressing and has been better since I removed the sphagnum mosses. They are also a bit light on the Donoghue Scale. Other than that, they seem pretty happy to me.


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## ticothetort2 (May 15, 2011)

Love the marbling in them, great looking torts.


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## ALDABRAMAN (May 15, 2011)

Very nice!


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## luke (May 15, 2011)

+1 on the marbling. Hope my guys get some of that.


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## goReptiles (May 18, 2011)

Are they housed inside? I have two Allegra babies I got last year, and neither show any marbling.

I love Allegra babies!

How old are yours?


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## gmayor (May 18, 2011)

very nice coloring


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## SnakeyeZ (May 18, 2011)

Very nice... I like Belathon. Doesn't get any smooooother than that.


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## Madkins007 (May 18, 2011)

goReptiles said:


> Are they housed inside? I have two Allegra babies I got last year, and neither show any marbling.
> 
> I love Allegra babies!
> 
> How old are yours?



Right around a year old, and they have not been outside yet. I'm hoping to get a new outdoor pen built with my next paycheck. Most weekends here it has been a bit cool, and I generally get home to late and am too tired to take them out during the week.


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## allegraf (May 18, 2011)

You can take good pics, they came out great! They are looking ABSOLUTELY GORGEOUS! I can't believe all of yours are marbling. I really love their names, scientific, with a purpose but most of all with a sense of humor. I may need to read the library a bit closer, maybe the secret to marbling is somewhere in there. I am so happy you have them!

Allegra


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## Fernando (May 19, 2011)

Great photos mark!


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## ChiKat (May 19, 2011)

They are beautiful!!! I don't know much about marbling...is it genetic, or are there environmental factors that play a role?


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## Madkins007 (May 19, 2011)

Thanks Allegra! I take OK photos, but these guys are so much nicer than the photos show. I can't wait for my daughter to whip out her skills. 

I have been pondering marbling. I've heard a lot of stuff from a lot of people, and I suspect that there are three main elements to it...

1. Genetics. Some species marble more often than others, then some types or sub-species do it more often, then some blood-lines do it more often than others. Eastern/Brazilian/'cherry-head' Red-foots seem more prone to marbling than many others.

2. Diet. I don't have much here other than the fact that diet and micronutrients play such a key role in the coloration of so many species. I have heard that Mazuri tends to create more bland-looking torts than a more natural mix, etc. But again- nothing concrete.

3. Stress. Don't shoot me on this one until you hear me out. It seems odd to me that my babies are marbling, but siblings that Allegra has are not. I hear this a lot- this guy gets marbling, this guy does not- from the same nest. Marbling happens when the black pigment producing cells stop producing or run out of chemicals. Just as stress can color changes in other animals, MAYBE some form of stress is making the torts go 'grey'. 
Mader defines stress in reptiles as the gap between what they need, and what they get. Maybe my cares are off, or the hermit crabs stress them out, or being out in the living room is too exposed for them, or... or... or...

Anyway- just some thoughts.


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## goReptiles (May 19, 2011)

And at a year old they are in the 50-60 gram range? Mine are 87 and 117 grams, and just under a year...


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## terryo (May 19, 2011)

Solo, from Carl, will be a year in June, and shows no sign's of marbling. Pio at this age had a lot but as she got older and was outside a lot, she lost most of it and the rest faded. Since the warm weather is here, Solo (and Pio) have been out in the sun most every day, except for the last few since we've had rain. I'll have to weigh her, next time she comes out. Don't know if any of this has anything to do with marbling or not.
I think you take great pictures Mark, and your torts are looking fabulous.


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## allegraf (May 20, 2011)

About 25% of our holdbacks are starting to marble. Here are some of the more marbled ones. Mark, the hatchlings you got were from mothers that have thrown marbled babies before. Rambutan hatchlings will marble, but not as likely as say Sweets babies or Yellow Girl's babies. Sorry about the quality of the pics, they were taken in a rush.









This is our most marbled one that started really young:


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## Madkins007 (May 20, 2011)

goReptiles said:


> And at a year old they are in the 50-60 gram range? Mine are 87 and 117 grams, and just under a year...



I was getting nervous until I realized- you are looking at the wrong dates. My guys all weigh 300 or so grams now, they were 50-60 in July last year. Whew!


So cute! I must have misunderstood you when you were talking about your babies not marbling as much. I am also happy because I was thinking my guys look a little 'flat', but ours look a lot alike, so whew for that as well!


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