# Breeding age



## nicola.g (Jul 2, 2013)

Hi all... I would like to know at what age tortoises can begin to breed as my 2 are very young, possibly 18 months to 2 years old. As they are too young to tell the sex of them and as they are different sub-species, which I have found out on the internet can be very dangerous for sub-species to cross-breed, I want to make sure this doesn't happen but haven't found any information to tell me when they may start becoming interested in mating after hours of trawling the internet. Advice would be greatly appreciated with this so that I can separate them in their enclosure if and when necessary... Thanks in advance


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## wellington (Jul 2, 2013)

Hello and Welcome Yours are way to you g yet. It has more to do with size then age. Others will be able to help with that better then me.


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## JoesMum (Jul 2, 2013)

Breeding is determined by a tort getting to adult size. As they approach maturity they get more territorial and don't always like sharing enclosures any more. It is very common to have to split pairs up. There is no such thing as a breeding pair of torts; they are solitary creatures in the wild. They roam large territories, meet up to mate and move on. They don't get lonely or need or want company. Three or more can work in a very large outdoor enclosure with plenty of sight barriers, but there are no guarantees. 

Assuming they are different genders, and they may not be, you may only be able to have them together to mate.


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## nicola.g (Jul 3, 2013)

wellington said:


> Hello and Welcome Yours are way to you g yet. It has more to do with size then age. Others will be able to help with that better then me.


I thought they might be but it's always good to know  thanks for your advice




JoesMum said:


> Breeding is determined by a tort getting to adult size. As they approach maturity they get more territorial and don't always like sharing enclosures any more. It is very common to have to split pairs up. There is no such thing as a breeding pair of torts; they are solitary creatures in the wild. They roam large territories, meet up to mate and move on. They don't get lonely or need or want company. Three or more can work in a very large outdoor enclosure with plenty of sight barriers, but there are no guarantees.
> 
> Assuming they are different genders, and they may not be, you may only be able to have them together to mate.



Thanks for your advice... how old are tortoises normally when they reach adult size? Or does this depend on breed? I'm still learning and have spent hours looking for answers to my questions online. Most of them have been answered through these searches i.e. general care, diet etc. Trudy, who we sadly lost at the weekend, was about 12 so we were advised but she seemed to have grown in the 7 months we had her


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## Tom (Jul 3, 2013)

Its size, not age. What species?


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## Leopard Tortoise Lover 16199 (Jul 3, 2013)

All tortoises have different adult sizes, for example, a little pancake tortoise would be smaller at breeding size than a sulcata. It really depends on the breed of tortoise you have and their growth rate, as some tortoises are really fast growers or really slow growers.


The tortoise does not have to be fully grown to breed. It may still grow after breeding. It just has to have reached sexual maturity, and that all depends.


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## nicola.g (Jul 3, 2013)

Tom said:


> Its size, not age. What species?



Hi Tom, Poppett, the slightly larger one, is a Testudo graeca, Greek Spur-thighed Tortoise and Snickers we think is a Hermanns but I am contacting our dogs' vet today to see if he can identify tortoise breeds or advise of anyone who can as we have only recently had her (obviously not sure of the sex but I refer to both of them as being girls)


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## JoesMum (Jul 3, 2013)

If you want species identification, post good clear photos of your torts on here. It is cheaper than the vet and undoubtedly more accurate.

We need good clear shots from above, including the top of the head and also one of the plastron including the tail.


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## nicola.g (Jul 4, 2013)

JoesMum said:


> If you want species identification, post good clear photos of your torts on here. It is cheaper than the vet and undoubtedly more accurate.
> 
> We need good clear shots from above, including the top of the head and also one of the plastron including the tail.



Thanks for that... once she's woken up properly I will take some clear pics of her and post them on here


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## JoesMum (Jul 4, 2013)

If you do it before your tort has warmed up properly, you will get better pics... it is a lot easier if the tort isn't trying to be somewhere else!


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## nicola.g (Jul 4, 2013)

JoesMum said:


> If you do it before your tort has warmed up properly, you will get better pics... it is a lot easier if the tort isn't trying to be somewhere else!



Took your advice and here are the pics... hope these help identify her  Thank you for your help


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## JoesMum (Jul 4, 2013)

I have sent GBTortoises a PM to see if he can identify them for you. 

Please be aware that, regardless of species or gender, your two may not live in happy company for much longer. Torts are largely solitary in the wild. They roam large territories, meet up to mate and move on. They don't get lonely or need, or want, company. In captivity this means that, especially indoors, they fight over ownership of the enclosure. Bullying may be physical or mental and they must be separated as soon as you are aware of one of them becoming withdrawn, more shy, or the victim.

Pairs of torts frequently don't work out. Groups of 3 or more can work in a very large outdoor enclosure with plenty of sight barriers, but there are no guarantees. A solitary tort is a happy tort.


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## nicola.g (Jul 4, 2013)

JoesMum said:


> I have sent GBTortoises a PM to see if he can identify them for you.
> 
> Please be aware that, regardless of species or gender, your two may not live in happy company for much longer. Torts are largely solitary in the wild. They roam large territories, meet up to mate and move on. They don't get lonely or need, or want, company. In captivity this means that, especially indoors, they fight over ownership of the enclosure. Bullying may be physical or mental and they must be separated as soon as you are aware of one of them becoming withdrawn, more shy, or the victim.
> 
> Pairs of torts frequently don't work out. Groups of 3 or more can work in a very large outdoor enclosure with plenty of sight barriers, but there are no guarantees. A solitary tort is a happy tort.



Thank you so much... we are intending to get a 3rd tortoise to make a group of 3 as soon as we have constructed a big enclosure in our garden with separate areas which will be started on this weekend and i'm so excited about it  At the moment they have a good size enclosure for the size of them outside which is split down the middle so they can both escape and not see each other but at the moment they do seem happy being next to each other whenever I look at them but as you say this situation is unlikely to last forever...


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## JoesMum (Jul 4, 2013)

Any newcomer must be kept entirely separately, in quarantine, for at least 6 months. This is to prevent your tort making the newcomer sick and vice versa. Thrre are no guarantees that the newcomer will be accepted and the introduction of a newcomer may be the catalyst for your two decideing to fight as well. Proceed with caution and accept that you are quite likely to have to house all 3 separately, only introducing them to mate, before separating them again.


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## nicola.g (Jul 4, 2013)

JoesMum said:


> Any newcomer must be kept entirely separately, in quarantine, for at least 6 months. This is to prevent your tort making the newcomer sick and vice versa. Thrre are no guarantees that the newcomer will be accepted and the introduction of a newcomer may be the catalyst for your two decideing to fight as well. Proceed with caution and accept that you are quite likely to have to house all 3 separately, only introducing them to mate, before separating them again.



Once again, thank you... you have been such a great help


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## GBtortoises (Jul 5, 2013)

nicola.g said:


> JoesMum said:
> 
> 
> > If you do it before your tort has warmed up properly, you will get better pics... it is a lot easier if the tort isn't trying to be somewhere else!
> ...


As with many _Testudo graeca_ subspecies from the Middle East and North Africa, this one is difficult to identify the subspecies of at such a small size/young age. Many of the various subspecies look similar when they are this young. Not until they reach about half their adult size do many of their identifying characteristics become more prominent. 
If I had to throw a guess in, which is what it is at this point, I'd say it's either a _Testudo graeca floweri_ or a true _T. g. terrestris_.


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## nicola.g (Jul 5, 2013)

GBtortoises said:


> nicola.g said:
> 
> 
> > JoesMum said:
> ...



Thank you so much for your help... this will give me a bit more to go on as to what I can and can't feed her etc and other general care issues


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