# Cypress mulch and flies



## PeanutbuttER (Jul 14, 2010)

The substrate we're using right now just isn't cutting it. We've got flies... they're just the little tiny tiny fruit-fly guys but my wife is sick and tired of them. I'm pretty sure they're living and reproducing in the dirt. I want to make the switch to cypress mulch, but before I do I just wanted to ask a couple questions. Do "bugs" in general like to live in cypress mulch? I know that stuff like dirt gives bugs a good home, but how does cypress mulch do? What are the benefits of cypress mulch as a substrate versus something like a topsoil, coconut coir mix?

I'll probably be getting mine through Tyler. Has anyone else bought his cypress mulch and what were their opinions of it? My only other cost-effective option is buying a bunch of 24 quart bags off of petmountain. I think they're forest floor brand (?) but I'd rather support a TFO member when possible.


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## Tom (Jul 14, 2010)

Those are called phorid flies and they will inhabit any substrate that has food, moisture and warmth.

I've heard nothing but good about Tyler and the cypress mulch he sells.


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## Maggie Cummings (Jul 14, 2010)

I love cypress mulch and have never had bugs in it. I have several habitats now in the house and none have bugs. I love how it smells when it is new from the bag but that smell goes away too quickly IMO. I use cypress mulch and orchid bark in all my habitats. I don't use coir, or sand or topsoil. I spent some time changing around and using different stuff and I have settled on cypress mulch and the fine grade orchid bark.

I got one 2 cubic feet bag that I loved from Tyler and the next bag I didn't love, and can't use. I had to replace it with a million small bags of forest floor but the pieces of wood in the second bag are too big for my small tortoises to walk on. Some of the pieces are big and sharp with points that poked a couple torts drawing blood on one. I seriously doubt that Tyler still has any of that stuff left as I imagine he has replaced it with different stuff by now as it has been a while, three months at least.


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## PeanutbuttER (Jul 14, 2010)

Thanks for the replies guys. I've got two enclosures right now. One is coconut coir and it has no flies. The other is coconut coir/topsoil and it does have the flies. I've checked them both out and the coconut coir still has no bugs anywhere in nor near it. They're both in the same room and are kept the same. That's why I assume that substrate choice plays a role in bugs. I doubt I'll be using topsoil as an indoor substrate ever again.

Maggie, it must be your experience that's in the back of my mind. I can remember someone saying something probably about a month ago about tyler's mulch being too course. That was the only time I'd heard anything negative about it, so I thought I'd check and see if that was a common problem or just a single incident. I'm going to get my cypress from him in the next week or two. 

Until then I'm going to just take out all my "buggy" substrate and replace it with newspaper for a week to kill off as many of these flies as possible. Tom, do you know how long the life cycle of phorid flies are by chance? Would a week be long enough for all the adults to die off?


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## Tom (Jul 14, 2010)

PeanutbuttER said:


> Until then I'm going to just take out all my "buggy" substrate and replace it with newspaper for a week to kill off as many of these flies as possible. Tom, do you know how long the life cycle of phorid flies are by chance? Would a week be long enough for all the adults to die off?



Sorry, I don't know that one. I do know it depends on the temps as it does with all insects. A whole week of hot and dry ought to do it, but remember they come from the environment, so even after they are gone, they will return if they find a suitable breeding environment.


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## Madkins007 (Jul 14, 2010)

Fungus gnats and springtails/snow fleas reproduce in damp habitats, whether flower pots or tortoise habitats.

It is hard to do a Red-foot habitat without some pests, but many of them can be fought with child/pet safe pesticides, sticky traps, biological controls, or, like I did in mine, by having isopods (rolly polly bugs) in the soil mix.

Fortunately, most of the pests are harmless to humans and animals.


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## PeanutbuttER (Jul 14, 2010)

Madkins007 said:


> Fungus gnats and springtails/snow fleas reproduce in damp habitats, whether flower pots or tortoise habitats.
> 
> It is hard to do a Red-foot habitat without some pests, but many of them can be fought with child/pet safe pesticides, sticky traps, biological controls, or, like I did in mine, by having isopods (rolly polly bugs) in the soil mix.
> 
> Fortunately, most of the pests are harmless to humans and animals.



We've got sticky traps throughout the house and they're still around. I even have one set up right next to the tort table, but it just isn't doing it. I've thought about the bioactive substrate and may try it someday but hopefully I'll have an outdoor pen before then (I don't think my wife would like me deliberately bringing isopods into the house. I can hear it now "What!?!?! The goal is to get RID of the bugs, not bring them in!!!!"


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## Candy (Jul 14, 2010)

When I did Dale's inside enclosure I used organic soil on the bottom and very little mulch on top and moss inside his hide. I started getting little buys right away, and by the time I changed it out those had turned into Earwigs. I took all of the dirt out and changed it with fresh and put Dale outside.  For Ruby and Eddie I also used the same so when I started to see flying bugs I changed everything out and just used the mulch that I had bought from Tyler Stewart. I also removed all of the plants in there. I don't know if Tyler has the same stuff as I had bought from him because that was a while ago you would have to check with him on that one. I don't have a problem in Ruby and Eddies enclosure anymore.


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## halfnelson (Jul 14, 2010)

I fight a constant battle with fungus gnats. They don't seem to like sphagnum moss. I have heard mixing sand in your substrate will kill the larva.


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## Madkins007 (Jul 15, 2010)

I doubt sand will make much of a difference unless you use a lot of it, then you'll have other problems.

I used to get the dang things all of the time. Sphagnum moss, cypress, normal soil and sand blends. Sticky traps helped some, never did any of the pesticides.

When I went to the bioactive substrate, the pests just stopped and I got a lot of other benefits as well. This is my 'go-to' plan now.


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## TylerStewart (Jul 15, 2010)

My current cypress and the cypress I will have for the next 2 years at least is pictured below. I believe this is the same stuff Candy got. I use it for my babies starting the day their umbilical chord is gone (including 1" testudo babies) and it works fine. They run around in it, burrow into it, eat on it. If there's a few longer pieces in the bag, and it matters, you take that piece and place it carefully in the garbage can (or just leave it alone like I do). It is significantly lower priced than the previous type I had (it's about 45% cheaper than it used to be on my site) which is why the switch happened. If anyone wants the old stuff, you can get it at Taylor Reptiles in Clovis. Last I heard, it was $25 per bag in store. 

I thank everyone for the (5) TortoiseForum orders that came in today for cypress (http://www.tortoiseforum.org/thread-16798.html). You won't be disappointed.


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