# Is this pyramiding?



## Jsvargas13 (Jun 9, 2020)

Hello,
This is Frida. She’s a little over a year old. I recently noticed her she’ll is raising a little. And it looks dry. During the day i started putting her out to get some sun and at night she’s inside. Inside her tank she has orchid bark and ceramic heat omitters. I know this is something that can’t be reversed but is there something I can do to stop it from getting worse?


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## zovick (Jun 9, 2020)

Jsvargas13 said:


> Hello,
> This is Frida. She’s a little over a year old. I recently noticed her she’ll is raising a little. And it looks dry. During the day i started putting her out to get some sun and at night she’s inside. Inside her tank she has orchid bark and ceramic heat omitters. I know this is something that can’t be reversed but is there something I can do to stop it from getting worse?


Yes, that tortoise has pyramiding. It is not severe (yet) and if you take steps to correct it now, it will become less and less noticeable as the tortoise grows. Look up the care info for the species on this site and then start making your corrections. @Tom usually has the links handy, but I don't, so maybe he can post them for you.

Good luck!


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## iAmCentrochelys sulcata (Jun 9, 2020)

Your tortoise is Pyramiding, due to lack of humidity. It’s more than minimal but not too bad. Increasing the humidity should prevent it from getting worse.


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## Jsvargas13 (Jun 9, 2020)

zovick said:


> Yes, that tortoise has pyramiding. It is not severe (yet) and if you take steps to correct it now, it will become less and less noticeable as the tortoise grows. Look up the care info for the species on this site and then start making your corrections. @Tom usually has the links handy, but I don't, so maybe he can post them for you.
> 
> Good luck!


 
thank you, I will look into that.


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## Jsvargas13 (Jun 9, 2020)

iAmCentrochelys sulcata said:


> Your tortoise is Pyramiding, due to lack of humidity. It’s more than minimal but not too bad. Increasing the humidity should prevent it from getting worse.



okay, does it have to be humid at night as well? I’m in Southern California and right now outside is humid so I’m sure she’s fine outside but inside her enclosure has to be hot at night too?


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## zovick (Jun 9, 2020)

Jsvargas13 said:


> okay, does it have to be humid at night as well? I’m in Southern California and right now outside is humid so I’m sure she’s fine outside but inside her enclosure has to be hot at night too?


Don't confuse humidity with temperature. Tortoises don't need a source of heat at night unless the temperature is going to get below 65 to 70 degrees. They do need to be kept in a humid environment day and night, though, and they need good sources of UV light, Vitamin D, and calcium to get proper shell growth. Humidity or heat alone will not do the trick. All those factors have to be addressed to get good growth and have a tortoise thrive rather than just survive in captivity.


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## Tom (Jun 9, 2020)

Check this out:





The Best Way To Raise A Sulcata, Leopard, Or Star Tortoise


I chose the title of this care sheet very carefully. Are there other ways to raise babies? Yes. Yes there are, but those ways are not as good. What follows is the BEST way, according to 30 years of research and experimentation with hundreds of babies of many species. Babies hatch during the...




tortoiseforum.org


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## iAmCentrochelys sulcata (Jun 9, 2020)

zovick said:


> Don't confuse humidity with temperature. Tortoises don't need a source of heat at night unless the temperature is going to get below 65 to 70 degrees. They do need to be kept in a humid environment day and night, though, and they need good sources of UV light, Vitamin D, and calcium to get proper shell growth. Humidity or heat alone will not do the trick. All those factors have to be addressed to get good growth and have a tortoise thrive rather than just survive in captivity.


I believe at this point we are taking about Pyramiding, but yes these factors also needs to be addressed but don’t factor with Pyramiding.


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## zovick (Jun 9, 2020)

iAmCentrochelys sulcata said:


> I believe at this point we are taking about Pyramiding, but yes these factors also needs to be addressed but don’t factor with Pyramiding.


Sorry to disagree with you, but ALL of the things I mentioned can contribute to pyramiding in tortoises. I have been working with tortoises since 1958 and can tell you from personal experience that humidity alone does not control it.


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## Tom (Jun 9, 2020)

Jsvargas13 said:


> okay, does it have to be humid at night as well? I’m in Southern California and right now outside is humid so I’m sure she’s fine outside but inside her enclosure has to be hot at night too?


Southern CA is a desert basin. It does not get humid here.

If you are trying to stop pyramiding in progress, you need to keep the tortoise in very humid conditions as much as possible, day and night. Also soak daily and spray the carapace with water several times a day. You can use distilled, RO, or collected rainwater for this shell spraying, but use regular tap or well water for soaking and drinking.


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## Jsvargas13 (Jun 9, 2020)

Tom said:


> Southern CA is a desert basin. It does not get humid here.
> 
> If you are trying to stop pyramiding in progress, you need to keep the tortoise in very humid conditions as much as possible, day and night. Also soak daily and spray the carapace with water several times a day. You can use distilled, RO, or collected rainwater for this shell spraying, but use regular tap or well water for soaking and drinking.




Thank you, I will start with soaks and spraying her she’ll.

Okay, just measured her and she’s actually exactly 5 inches long. 

I currently am using orchid bark for substrate. Would I need to do anything with that in order to hold humidity?

my plan is to either build or buy a closed chamber enclosure. I have a Che right now and plan on continue using that. Will I need another light? I also plan on getting a bigger hide for her as well.


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## Tom (Jun 9, 2020)

Jsvargas13 said:


> Thank you, I will start with soaks and spraying her she’ll.
> 
> Okay, just measured her and she’s actually exactly 5 inches long.
> 
> ...


Everything you just asked is explained in detail in the care sheet.


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## iAmCentrochelys sulcata (Jun 9, 2020)

zovick said:


> Sorry to disagree with you, but ALL of the things I mentioned can contribute to pyramiding in tortoises. I have been working with tortoises since 1958 and can tell you from personal experience that humidity alone does not control it.


You may have done it for many years but it doesn’t mean you where doing it correct, I’m specifically taking to Pyramiding in this instance. I’m sure you take great care of your tortoises. But Tom has done “Experiments” that has helped, in what contributes to Pyramiding.


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## KarenSoCal (Jun 9, 2020)

zovick said:


> Don't confuse humidity with temperature. Tortoises don't need a source of heat at night unless the temperature is going to get below 65 to 70 degrees. They do need to be kept in a humid environment day and night, though, and they need good sources of UV light, Vitamin D, and calcium to get proper shell growth. Humidity or heat alone will not do the trick. All those factors have to be addressed to get good growth and have a tortoise thrive rather than just survive in captivity.





iAmCentrochelys sulcata said:


> You may have done it for many years but it doesn’t mean you where doing it correct, I’m specifically taking to Pyramiding in this instance. I’m sure you take great care of your tortoises. But Tom has done “Experiments” that has helped, in what contributes to Pyramiding.


@iAmCentrochelys sulcata , you're overstepping here. Read @zovick 's post again, very carefully. Everything he posted is true. 

There's a saying "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing". Keep that in mind when you accuse a veteran member of something. Questioning is OK...accusations, are not.


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## Toddrickfl1 (Jun 10, 2020)

iAmCentrochelys sulcata said:


> You may have done it for many years but it doesn’t mean you where doing it correct, I’m specifically taking to Pyramiding in this instance. I’m sure you take great care of your tortoises. But Tom has done “Experiments” that has helped, in what contributes to Pyramiding.


You really have no idea who your trying to debate here bud.


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## zovick (Jun 10, 2020)

iAmCentrochelys sulcata said:


> You may have done it for many years but it doesn’t mean you where doing it correct, I’m specifically taking to Pyramiding in this instance. I’m sure you take great care of your tortoises. But Tom has done “Experiments” that has helped, in what contributes to Pyramiding.



Oh, I think I was doing things pretty well, probably even before your parents were born, and in the days before internet forums, how-to books, videos, etc., were invented and began offering people unlimited advice and guidance.

What I am trying to help you and the original poster understand is that these factors are all inter-related, it is not just a one factor problem. IE, plenty of humidity alone without daily soaks, excellent UV lighting, a good diet, and adequate calcium and vitamin intake is not going to produce good looking growth in a tortoise.

Check out these three tortoises. All were hatched and raised entirely indoors by me from day one. They are one, two, and three years of age in the photo. They were raised in open top tubs with absolutely no effort made to control the humidity of their environments. I didn't even provide humid hide boxes for them. All the other factors I have mentioned (daily soaking, a good diet, superb UV lighting, adequate calcium and Vitamin D) were given to them. These tortoises are not severely pyramided (if one could call them pyramided at all) and they had NO humidity provided (other than that of the ambient air in a heated room which is very minimal).


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## SKOLsuper (Jun 10, 2020)

Jsvargas13 said:


> Hello,
> This is Frida. She’s a little over a year old. I recently noticed her she’ll is raising a little. And it looks dry. During the day i started putting her out to get some sun and at night she’s inside. Inside her tank she has orchid bark and ceramic heat omitters. I know this is something that can’t be reversed but is there something I can do to stop it from getting worse?
> 
> View attachment 296911
> ...


Hi


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## SKOLsuper (Jun 10, 2020)

SKOLsuper said:


> Hi


Hi do u soak 4 x a week and also do u give cattle bone I have the same tortoise and he’s 1 year and 5 months and he not pyramid


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## zovick (Jun 10, 2020)

SKOLsuper said:


> Hi do u soak 4 x a week and also do u give cattle bone I have the same tortoise and he’s 1 year and 5 months and he not pyramid
> View attachment 296964
> View attachment 296964


 @SKOLsuper 
Not sure if you were directing your question to me or not, but if so, I soaked my tortoises EVERY morning (so 7 times weekly) until they were 3-4 years old or even a bit older. I only offered them cuttle bone occasionally but I religiously sprinkled their food daily with Ultrafine Rep-Cal WITH Vitamin D3 as well as with Herptivite.

Your tortoise looks very nice. Have you been raising it in a closed chamber and soaking it about 4X weekly?


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## SKOLsuper (Jun 10, 2020)

Hi no I keep him indoors but let him out the garden when it’s warm










zovick said:


> @SKOLsuper
> Not sure if you were directing your question to me or not, but if so, I soaked my tortoises EVERY morning (so 7 times weekly) until they were 3-4 years old or even a bit older. I only offered them cuttle bone occasionally but I religiously sprinkled their food daily with Ultrafine Rep-Cal WITH Vitamin D3 as well as with Herptivite.
> 
> Your tortoise looks very nice. Have you been raising it in a closed chamber and soaking it about 4X weekly?


Sorry it was for someone else thanks anyway


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## KarenSoCal (Jun 10, 2020)

SKOLsuper said:


> Hi no I keep him indoors but let him out the garden when it’s warm
> View attachment 296974
> View attachment 296974
> View attachment 296974
> ...


I really like your enclosure and the framework to hang the lights.

I am always looking for pictures that show how well some keepers do this. I use the picture on this forum to demonstrate to newbies what I'm talking about. It's not easy to describe without a picture.

Would you be willing to take a few more pictures of your setup? Especially one that shows the entire enclosure and framework, all in one shot.

If you are, please just post them here. And may I use them on this forum?


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## Lokkje (Jun 10, 2020)

zovick said:


> Oh, I think I was doing things pretty well, probably even before your parents were born, and in the days before internet forums, how-to books, videos, etc., were invented and began offering people unlimited advice and guidance.
> 
> What I am trying to help you and the original poster understand is that these factors are all inter-related, it is not just a one factor problem. IE, plenty of humidity alone without daily soaks, excellent UV lighting, a good diet, and adequate calcium and vitamin intake is not going to produce good looking growth in a tortoise.
> 
> ...


OMG these torts are gorgeous!


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## SKOLsuper (Jun 11, 2020)

KarenSoCal said:


> I really like your enclosure and the framework to hang the lights.
> 
> I am always looking for pictures that show how well some keepers do this. I use the picture on this forum to demonstrate to newbies what I'm talking about. It's not easy to describe without a picture.
> 
> ...


Ok


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## William Lee Kohler (Jun 11, 2020)

Jsvargas13 said:


> Hello,
> This is Frida. She’s a little over a year old. I recently noticed her she’ll is raising a little. And it looks dry. During the day i started putting her out to get some sun and at night she’s inside. Inside her tank she has orchid bark and ceramic heat omitters. I know this is something that can’t be reversed but is there something I can do to stop it from getting worse?
> 
> View attachment 296911
> ...



You're blowing it big time.


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## Jsvargas13 (Jun 11, 2020)

SKOLsuper said:


> Hi no I keep him indoors but let him out the garden when it’s warm
> View attachment 296974
> View attachment 296974
> View attachment 296974
> ...



your tortoise looks amazing! I want to help mine stop pyramiding. I will start giving her daily soaks for sure!! I took a look at where you keep Him and I think my set up needs improving.Would you mind giving me a breakdown of how you set it up? And what you use as substrate? Also next to his hide, what is that?


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## Jsvargas13 (Jun 11, 2020)

William Lee Kohler said:


> You're blowing it big time.





William Lee Kohler said:


> You're blowing it big time.



Welp that’s why I’m here asking for advice. If you’re not going to help, next time just keep your opinion to yourself.


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## Jsvargas13 (Jun 11, 2020)

zovick said:


> Oh, I think I was doing things pretty well, probably even before your parents were born, and in the days before internet forums, how-to books, videos, etc., were invented and began offering people unlimited advice and guidance.
> 
> What I am trying to help you and the original poster understand is that these factors are all inter-related, it is not just a one factor problem. IE, plenty of humidity alone without daily soaks, excellent UV lighting, a good diet, and adequate calcium and vitamin intake is not going to produce good looking growth in a tortoise.
> 
> ...



thank you, I’m taking all the advice put I to this thread and doing what I can do help my tortoise out. I will do the soaks and cattle bone.


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## SKOLsuper (Jun 11, 2020)

Jsvargas13 said:


> your tortoise looks amazing! I want to help mine stop pyramiding. I will start giving her daily soaks for sure!! I took a look at where you keep Him and I think my set up needs improving.Would you mind giving me a breakdown of how you set it up? And what you use as substrate? Also next to his hide, what is that?
> [/QUOTE
> Hi coco fibre ,prickly pear plant fogger for steam ,hay heaters


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## Jsvargas13 (Jun 11, 2020)

Thank you, what is the light all the way on the top? The one hanging really low?


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## SKOLsuper (Jun 11, 2020)

Jsvargas13 said:


> Thank you, what is the light all the way on the top? The one hanging really low?


It’s a heater only use when it gets cold


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## SKOLsuper (Jun 11, 2020)

SKOLsuper said:


> It’s a heater only use when it gets cold
> View attachment 297095
> View attachment 297096


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## Jsvargas13 (Jun 11, 2020)

SKOLsuper said:


> View attachment 297098


 Okay got it, top is heat. And this one?


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## SKOLsuper (Jun 11, 2020)

Jsvargas13 said:


> Okay got it, top is heat. And this one?


*Solar Basking Spot also uv*https://www.googleadservices.com/pa...wj__8iN8_rpAhWKShUIHdsvACEQwg96BAgKEBI&adurl=


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## SKOLsuper (Jun 11, 2020)

Hope that helps I am not an expert thanks


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## Jsvargas13 (Jun 11, 2020)

SKOLsuper said:


> Hope that helps I am not an expert thanks



it does. Your setup looks nice and your tortoise looks like it’s thriving  so thank you for taking the time to answer my questions. I really appreciate it.


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## SKOLsuper (Jun 11, 2020)

SKOLsuper said:


> Hope that helps I am not an expert thanks


Thank you so much ru in England


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## SKOLsuper (Jun 11, 2020)

SKOLsuper said:


> Thank you so much ru in England


Sorry you’re in us


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## Jsvargas13 (Jun 11, 2020)

SKOLsuper said:


> Sorry you’re in us


Yup in the US 
Southern California


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## SKOLsuper (Jun 11, 2020)

Jsvargas13 said:


> Yup in the US
> Southern California


England essex


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## SKOLsuper (Jun 11, 2020)

What’s it like there 


SKOLsuper said:


> England essex


what’s it like there atm


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## Jsvargas13 (Jun 11, 2020)

SKOLsuper said:


> What’s it like there
> 
> what’s it like there atm



It's good. Aside form COVID-19 everything is good. Our weather is reaching the 80's now so I've been able to let my sulcata out to get some sun rays.


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## SKOLsuper (Jun 12, 2020)

SKOLsuper said:


> Ok


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## SKOLsuper (Jun 12, 2020)

Jsvargas13 said:


> It's good. Aside form COVID-19 everything is good. Our weather is reaching the 80's now so I've been able to let my sulcata out to get some sun rays.


Sound lovely Its not that hot here always raining


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## KarenSoCal (Jun 12, 2020)

Thank you. They will be very helpful for some new member that's confused about enclosures.


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## SKOLsuper (Jun 12, 2020)

KarenSoCal said:


> Thank you. They will be very helpful for some new member that's confused about enclosures.


No problem x


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## SKOLsuper (Jun 12, 2020)

SKOLsuper said:


> No problem x


It might be a bit different set up because I live in England


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## turtlesteve (Jun 12, 2020)

@zovick I’d love to hear further thoughts from you on pyramiding and how all these variables interact. Are you using sunlight or artificial UV?

I still get mild pyramiding sometimes despite UV, aggressive calcium supplementation, and high humidity. These cases of perfectly smooth tortoises raised without high humidity are intriguing - I’ve seen other examples too, even raised by people with no care knowledge (e.g. it lives in the yard and fends for itself). But most of the time, absent the humidity, we see bad pyramiding - even if UV, diet, etc. seem appropriate - why?

Steve


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## zovick (Jun 12, 2020)

@turtlesteve 
To answer your first question, I used artificial light exclusively for about the first 3 years of a tortoise's life. After that, I placed them outside when the weather was warm enough, but living in a place where winters get cold, they only went outside from May to September. 

Regarding pyramiding, I don't claim to have all the answers, I just know that providing humidity alone without addressing any of the other factors I mentioned will not make for a good looking tortoise. 

To be brief, tortoises have a lot of bone making up their shells. To grow that bone, they need calcium. To utilize the calcium, they need Vitamin D. To synthesize Vitamin D, they need UV light. No matter how humid they are kept, if those other factors are not present (by accident or by design), the growth will not be optimal.

This is the point I was trying to make to @Jsvargas13 and @iAmCentrochelys sulcata


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## Jsvargas13 (Jun 12, 2020)

zovick said:


> @turtlesteve
> To answer your first question, I used artificial light exclusively for about the first 3 years of a tortoise's life. After that, I placed them outside when the weather was warm enough, but living in a place where winters get cold, they only went outside from May to September.
> 
> Regarding pyramiding, I don't claim to have all the answers, I just know that providing humidity alone without addressing any of the other factors I mentioned will not make for a good looking tortoise.
> ...


Hi, I was reading your response and had a quick question as I’m trying to address all the issues I have with my enclosure. I’m working on humidity at the moment. I let my sulcata out to catch some sun rays during the day since I’m in California and the temps have been in the high 70s low 80s. Do you suggest I still provide a Uv light in the enclosure? If so what type?


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## zovick (Jun 12, 2020)

Jsvargas13 said:


> Hi, I was reading your response and had a quick question as I’m trying to address all the issues I have with my enclosure. I’m working on humidity at the moment. I let my sulcata out to catch some sun rays during the day since I’m in California and the temps have been in the high 70s low 80s. Do you suggest I still provide a Uv light in the enclosure? If so what type?


Yes, I would still recommend using a UV light for the time when the tortoise is indoors. Use a fluorescent tube. The Reptisun 10.0 UVB are great. I recommend about 14 to 16 hours a day of this lighting for most tortoises. In addition to the lighting, a proper diet, daily soaking, and vitamin and calcium supplements as discussed earlier are also important.

Here is my response to a question about UV light fixtures from a different thread:


> madiandtito said:
> I have an open air enclosure. Getting an 18 in. UVB bulb. Where can I get a fixture? An aquarium hood will not fit on her table. What do I search for the fixture?


You can look at this site for some fixture ideas: http://www.lllreptile.com/catalog/24-light-fixtures

You can also buy light fixtures from a hardware store or from Amazon. I used these Lithonia dual bulb fluorescent fixtures for my baby tortoises with two 48" T8 Reptisun 10.0 UVB bulbs: https://www.acehardware.com/departm...ical/work-and-shop-lights/shop-lights/3429487

You can hang the Lithonia fixture above from the ceiling, make a frame on which to place it or from which to hang it, or if your enclosure is the right dimensions, you can just rest it on top. Using this fixture with the two bulbs I mentioned you should set it about 10" above the substrate to get the right amount of UV for your tortoise.

If you want to be really correct, you need to get a Solarmeter (the 6.5 model only) and read the UV with that. For baby tortoises, I used a reading of 3.0 on that Solarmeter. The reading is controlled by adjusting the height of the fixture above the substrate.


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## Jsvargas13 (Jun 12, 2020)

zovick said:


> Yes, I would still recommend using a UV light for the time when the tortoise is indoors. Use a fluorescent tube. The Reptisun 10.0 UVB are great. I recommend about 14 to 16 hours a day of this lighting for most tortoises. In addition to the lighting, a proper diet, daily soaking, and vitamin and calcium supplements as discussed earlier are also important.
> 
> Here is my response to a question about UV light fixtures from a different thread:
> 
> ...


 Great, so does T5 or T8 make a difference? 
Also, what vitamins does a tortoise need?


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## Jsvargas13 (Jun 12, 2020)

SKOLsuper said:


> *Solar Basking Spot also uv*https://www.googleadservices.com/pa...wj__8iN8_rpAhWKShUIHdsvACEQwg96BAgKEBI&adurl=
> View attachment 297099


Hi again  Sorry to bother you again. But what type of light and fixture are you using here?


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## zovick (Jun 13, 2020)

Jsvargas13 said:


> Great, so does T5 or T8 make a difference?
> Also, what vitamins does a tortoise need?


T5 and T8 designations indicate the diameter of the bulbs. T5 bulbs are 0.625" in diameter and T8 bulbs are 1.00" in diameter. Each of them requires a different fixture because the electrodes are different sizes and different distances apart on each one. You need to decide which bulb you want to use BEFORE buying the appropriate fixture for that size bulb. The T5 bulbs are quite strong and give off a good bit of heat. I don't recommend you put the T5 bulbs too close to your tortoise without using the Solarmeter (6.5 model only) to see how strong the UV is in the enclosure. Personally, I like the T8 bulbs better for really young tortoises as the T8 bulbs are less harsh and my baby tortoises seemed to tolerate them better than the T5 bulbs.

As for vitamins, I used Herptivite vitamins and Ultrafine Rep-Cal WITH D3 and sprinkled both on the tortoise food daily. You can buy both of those from LLL Reptile Supply.


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## Jsvargas13 (Jun 13, 2020)

Thank you! I appreciate you taking the time to explain. I’ll go with the T8.


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## Jsvargas13 (Jun 13, 2020)

zovick said:


> T5 and T8 designations indicate the diameter of the bulbs. T5 bulbs are 0.625" in diameter and T8 bulbs are 1.00" in diameter. Each of them requires a different fixture because the electrodes are different sizes and different distances apart on each one. You need to decide which bulb you want to use BEFORE buying the appropriate fixture for that size bulb. The T5 bulbs are quite strong and give off a good bit of heat. I don't recommend you put the T5 bulbs too close to your tortoise without using the Solarmeter (6.5 model only) to see how strong the UV is in the enclosure. Personally, I like the T8 bulbs better for really young tortoises as the T8 bulbs are less harsh and my baby tortoises seemed to tolerate them better than the T5 bulbs.
> 
> As for vitamins, I used Herptivite vitamins and Ultrafine Rep-Cal WITH D3 and sprinkled both on the tortoise food daily. You can buy both of those from LLL Reptile Supply.


One last question, sorry to keep bothering you ?. How far away does each light (basking, uv, and che) need to be from tortoise?


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## JustLivingLife714 (Jun 13, 2020)

zovick said:


> @SKOLsuper
> Not sure if you were directing your question to me or not, but if so, I soaked my tortoises EVERY morning (so 7 times weekly) until they were 3-4 years old or even a bit older. I only offered them cuttle bone occasionally but I religiously sprinkled their food daily with Ultrafine Rep-Cal WITH Vitamin D3 as well as with Herptivite.
> 
> Your tortoise looks very nice. Have you been raising it in a closed chamber and soaking it about 4X weekly?



Hi @zovick , is this the source you use for vitamin D3?









REP-CAL Calcium with Vitamin D3 Ultrafine Powder Reptile Supplement, 3.3-oz jar - Chewy.com


Buy Rep-Cal Calcium with Vitamin D3 Ultrafine Powder Reptile Supplement, 3.3-oz jar at Chewy.com. FREE shipping and the BEST customer service!




www.chewy.com


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## zovick (Jun 14, 2020)

JustLivingLife714 said:


> Hi @zovick , is this the source you use for vitamin D3?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


@JustLivingLife714
Yes, that is the calcium supplement I recommend. It is made from oyster shells which are a naturally produced organic form of calcium. IMHO it is much superior to simply buying calcium powder or calcium pills from a health food store or a drug store.
The same company makes the vitamin supplement I recommend, Herptivite. Here is that link: https://www.chewy.com/rep-cal-herpt...nmVD08y_CvK2Z1Ia3ZpNJLcqXnsiF8pxoC6esQAvD_BwE


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## zovick (Jun 14, 2020)

Jsvargas13 said:


> One last question, sorry to keep bothering you ?. How far away does each light (basking, uv, and che) need to be from tortoise?


@Jsvargas13 
I cannot really answer the question you asked on the correct distance for each of the lights because that needs to be determined by actual experimentation in your exact set-up. I have mentioned that the UV light needs to be set at a distance which gives a reading of about 3.0 or so on a Solarmeter 6.5. The type of bulb (T5, T8, etc,) will make a difference in how high above the substrate to mount the fixture to get that reading. As for basking and CHE, I think you need to experiment and measure the temperature under each one and try to get about 95F to 100F under the heat emitter for a hot spot and perhaps 80F or so under the basking light area.


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## OkAdiza (Jun 14, 2020)

zovick said:


> Oh, I think I was doing things pretty well, probably even before your parents were born, and in the days before internet forums, how-to books, videos, etc., were invented and began offering people unlimited advice and guidance.
> 
> What I am trying to help you and the original poster understand is that these factors are all inter-related, it is not just a one factor problem. IE, plenty of humidity alone without daily soaks, excellent UV lighting, a good diet, and adequate calcium and vitamin intake is not going to produce good looking growth in a tortoise.
> 
> ...


Wow! These tortoises are absolutely stunning!!! ?


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## zovick (Jun 14, 2020)

OkAdiza said:


> Wow! These tortoises are absolutely stunning!!! ?


Thank you very much. They are the result of nearly 50 years of work selectively breeding and raising up babies to produce 3 generations of 100% CB offspring descended from my original WC adults from the 1960's.


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## OkAdiza (Jun 14, 2020)

zovick said:


> Thank you very much. They are the result of nearly 50 years of work selectively breeding and raising up babies to produce 3 generations of 100% CB offspring descended from my original WC adults from the 1960's.


That’s amazing! Clearly the well deserved results of all your hard work and patience. They are beautiful! You’re making me want one!


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