# Hay As A Substrate



## Nobody (Feb 6, 2010)

Is it true that if you use hay as a substrate for tortoises,it might cause pyramiding?If yes,what is the reason for this?
Thanks.


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## GBtortoises (Feb 7, 2010)

Never heard that one! No, it's not true. I use hay for a substrate with all of my medium to adult size tortoises and have never had a problem of any kind whatsoever. It's main drawback is that it will not hold moisture as well as some other substrates because it is not as dense. For small developing tortoises I use a mix of organic potting soil, coconut coir, sphagnum and leaf litter mix. 
I maintain the hay substrate like any other, I spray it with water, spot clean it and anything else you'd do with other substrates. The tortoises burrow through it probably more than they would with other substrate materials. The only drawback with using hay is that it doesn't hold wastes at the top as well as other more dense substrates so spot cleaning is a bit more work. That is in a way also a plus since the majority of the liquid wastes go to the bottom of the substrate away from the animals. I've never found that to be a problem either since I only keep the substrate 2-3" deep. It's very easy to keep clean.


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## Tom (Feb 7, 2010)

It doesn't CAUSE pyramiding. Pyramiding is caused by a lack of humidity. It is hard, in most places in the world to maintain enough humidity for a growing sulcata on a dry substrate, such as hay. This shouldn't be a problem for you in the Phillipines unless they are housed indoors in a dry air conditioned house. In this case, you'd probably be fine using the hay indoors, if you also provide a humid hide box. Since yours are exposed to so much humidity outside, you'll probably do fine this way.


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## Nobody (Feb 11, 2010)

How do I make a humid hide for my tortoises?
Thanks.


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## TortieGal (Feb 11, 2010)

Hay molds easy, so you will have to change it out all the time.


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## fel1958 (Feb 11, 2010)

Nobody said:


> Is it true that if you use hay as a substrate for tortoises,it might cause pyramiding?If yes,what is the reason for this?
> Thanks.



never heard that one.use 50% topsoil and 50% sand.every now and then switch to cypress mulch.spray your torts daily.hay,alphalfa pellets etc. will suck all the moister away from the torts.allso soak them twice a week.


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## dielawn (Feb 12, 2010)

Alfalfa hay and a few other types of hay are high in protein and I think that is where that rumor came from, but high protein isn't the leading cause of pyramiding but probably a smaller component. That is also only if they are eating the alfalfa.


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## GBtortoises (Feb 12, 2010)

Even at that, a tortoise would have to eat _alot_ of alfalfa hay to for it's protein content to have enough effect to contribute to pyramiding. 

Simply stated, protein content in hay varies depending upon the type of hay and time of year that it's cut. Below are the three most common types of hay available. The protein contents listed are averages. The percentage ratios are "backwards" because it reflects the higher protein content of first cuttings through the season until the latest cuttings when protein levels are lower.

Alfalfa = 18-15% 
Bermuda = 10-7%
Timothy = 9-5%


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