# Russian versus Greek



## jweiner (May 8, 2011)

Which of these is the smaller of the two when full grown? Also, would there be a subspecies within the species that is smaller (within the species)? What I mean is that, if Greeks are smaller as adults, is there one Greek subspecies that is smaller than another.


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## Tim/Robin (May 8, 2011)

In general, Russians are smaller than Greeks. There are certainly exceptions to that. Ibera Greeks tend to be the biggest. Goldens, Jordanians, Zagros/Caspian tend to be smaller.


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## bikerchicspain (May 8, 2011)

A Greek is smaller, the Testudo Graeca Graeca is the smallest of the Greeks, males usually get to 14/15cm in length and 650/700 grams in weight.


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## jweiner (May 8, 2011)

So which is the smallest as a full grown adult?


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## tortoisenerd (May 8, 2011)

A male Russian?

Are you asking because you have limited space, or some other reason? Keep in mind any type of tort will thrive best in a large outdoor enclosure.

I would recommend a yearling captive bred tort, not a hatchling, and not wild caught. At that age, sex can't be determined (even temp sexing isn't 100% if the breeder did that), so you could end up with a larger female.


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## jweiner (May 8, 2011)

What I am really looking for is the best combination of hardiness (appears to be Russians), playfulness (appears to be Hermanns) and appearance (?). I was just curious about the size thing since we live in Wisconsin and it therefore won't be outside all the time. Joel


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## Eweezyfosheezy (May 8, 2011)

All of those tortoises are pretty much around the same size and can take the same type of environments so it pretty much comes down to which one you like the best.


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## dmmj (May 8, 2011)

Russian males tend to run on the small side, and they are more readily available at pet stores like petco and others, but remember wild caught russians will most likely need a vet visit for a parasite check.


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## Terry Allan Hall (May 9, 2011)

All of the Europeans make great pets, but the Hermann's are the most personable, the Russians are the hardiest but don't seem to care whether they get petted or not, and the various Greeks fall, more or less, in between.

Size-wise, Russians are generally somewhat smaller, but not by a lot, and even the biggest female Russian rarely gets bigger than 9", while the biggest female Eastern Hermann's only gets to about 11". Western Hermann's are smaller, but they're hard to find and much pricier.

Iberian Greeks, generally considered the largest variety of Greeks, can reach about 12" or so. Smallest Greek is the Tunisian (6-8"), but they're also somewhat more delicate, particularily in colder climes.

All the Europeans are certainly much easier to provide adequate room for than a sulcata or the other Giants.


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## jweiner (May 10, 2011)

Thanks for the response. So are there any breeders selling Western Hermann's on this site that you are aware of? Joel


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## Terry Allan Hall (May 10, 2011)

jweiner said:


> Thanks for the response. So are there any breeders selling Western Hermann's on this site that you are aware of? Joel



Some possibilities:
http://www.hermanni.orbs.com/

Also, HermanniChris might be able to help...I know he breeds Westerns and might have babies for sale (I get the impression his sell out very quickly, though!)

Not sure if GBtortoises has any Westerns but he's VERY knowledgable and might be of help, as well. Definitely has Easterns and possibly Dalmations, too.

CGKeith, TylerStewart and Tim/Robin all might be of help, as well.

OTOH, the other two varieties (Eastern and Dalmation Hermann's) make great pets and are quite a bit less expensive, in case you have trouble getting a Western. 

Several folks here have one or the other and youngsters are easy to find, but for a "1st" tortoise, I strongly advise getting an established one (several months old, at least) as a freshly hatched one can be a bit fragile.


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