# Little Desert Tortoise in the Lakewood/LB Area



## ChloeRagusa (Jan 14, 2022)

Hello all!

I am hoping to pick the brains of a few members here who seem to really understand desert tortoises so that I can raise my baby right! I recently received what I_ think _is a gopherus agassizii from a neighbor whose tortoises accidentally bred. He (I say he for now just to make life easier) was incubated by the neighbor and raised for 4 months in a small tank with 5 siblings. Hatch date was Sept. 7th. He was raised on spring mix, soaked 2x per week, and taken out to get sun daily.

We were NOT prepared for this baby, but we are getting it together and trying our best. We have had him for 7 days and temporarily had him in a large plastic tub on a towel with a small box as a hide, a water dish, a terra cotta saucer for his food, and a washcloth folded up to sunbathe on. We have been soaking him daily and taking him outside when there is sunshine for him to enjoy.

As of yesterday, we have a 2x4 foot enclosure with coco coir substrate approx. 4 inches deep. We have a CHE for the nighttime and a basking bulb, and have been keeping basking temp at 95, ambient temp at 85, coolside at 76, and nighttime about 72. Humidity has been between 40-60 and we aren't sure what the right humidity is. His eyes are bright and clear, he is active and strong, he eats a lot of food and has been munching on his cuttlebone from time to time, and he is not scared of us hardly at all. When we introduced him to the new enclosure he ate dinner, paced for about 20 minutes (exploring the entire cage), pooped 3 times, and then buried himself in the substrate and went to sleep. I believe he also ate a small bite of the substrate when he first touched it, but doesn't seem to have eaten any since.

He eats 2x per day, with a Grassland pellet and Mazuri pellet (he loves it!), and a medium amount of organic greens that Tom listed are safe for him (escarole, endive, mustard greens, turnip greens, collard greens, cilantro, bok choy, dandelion leaves, etc.) about half the size of his shell is how I would describe the amount. Please stop me if I am overfeeding him!
Previously he was eating dandelion greens, romaine, fresh bermuda grass sprouts. I have to admit, we did accientally feed him a plant we thought was clover that turned out to be Oxalis- we are still terrified we poisoned him. If anyone has made a similar mistake, I would love to know if it impacted your baby down the line.

*Some concerns:*

His mouth has a little black ring around it. I understand it may be poop, which makes sense since I have only found 5 poops. Is there anything else it could be?

The sides of his top shell have a little give, but are hard to the touch. Is this normal at his age? I read this species takes quite a while for the shell to harden. Additionally, I _think_ I can feel him breathing when I hold him in my hand and am wondering if that is possible or if I am just being anxious. There is evidence of a small bit of pyramiding on his shell from what I understand, but we are trying to correct it.

We soak him (daily), but he still looks very dry. We are hoping the new substrate will help a lot. In the bath he sticks his nose and mouth underwater and drinks, but when he comes up it sounds like he is pushing water from his nose. It makes a squeaking sound for about 2 seconds or sometimes a clicking sound I can liken to when a toddler has a clogged nostril and is trying to get the mucus out. He does not make squeaking noises any other time, but makes that clicking noise once in a while when I pick him up. It is barely audible, I have to hold him to my ear to hear it. In the tub I can see the breath from his nostril fogging up the side of the container, so I know he is breathing well at this point.
Normal tort noise or RI? Does he not know how to drink properly and is inhaling water? As a new caretaker I always think the worst. Is there anything I can do to get ahead of it if it is an RI? At 4 months I hesitate to take him to the vet for fear they might inject him with something bad and I won't know enough to object. If anyone has a good vet rec for Long Beach/Lakewood, CA or any surrounding area please let me know!

The skin on his neck is peeling? His head seems very dry as well. Is shedding normal for his age and species? The shed is slightly orange, I'll post pics. His skin seems to be greenish brownish otherwise. Could this be some type of fungal issue? His shell on the bottom seems to have some orangish color too. It does not look like the photos I have seen of typical shell rot or that other immune issue some tortoises get and develop yellow blisters.

His mouth looks fine and so does his beak, however he seems to have a very pale pink tongue. Can you think of a reason for that? I will try to attach a photo.

Please let me know if more info is needed. I apologize for the redundancy of some of my questions. Everyone thinks their baby is unique and special, and I am no different it seems. I have read the care sheets provided by Tom, threads answered by Yvonne and Tom both with great information, and many threads where advice and info has been given about these types of tortoise. I am trying my best, but appreciate any help I can get. Thank you all in advance!


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## CharSparda (Jan 19, 2022)

A lot of information you just gave, but from what I see and what you explained before the ‘some concerns’ parts, he is in great conditions. The humidity levels around 40-60 per cent are just fine, these are desert tortoises so you shouldn’t expect them to be wet and drinking water all the time. I would recommend feeding him (or her) cactus (see the Mexican nopal).

As for the second part, my gopherus makes the same noise when he drinks water or has too much food, he kind of ‘sneezes’ and make funny noises with his nose. I think the peeling is normal in the photos, and I don’t see any pyamidism, but the photos are not so very clear.

Imma quote @Yvonne G @MenagerieGrl and @Lyn W since they’ve helped me with my concerns before. Your tort is precious by the way!


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## Lyn W (Jan 20, 2022)

Hi and welcome,
If your DT is of the Gopherus Genus this caresheet will help you. I can't tell, but there are a lot of DT keepers here who can help you with that.





The Best Way To Raise Any Temperate Species Of Tortoise


I chose the title of this care sheet very carefully. Are there other ways to raise babies and care for adults? Yes. Yes there are, but those ways are not as good. What follows is the BEST way, according to 30 years of research and experimentation with hundreds of babies of many species. What is...




tortoiseforum.org





Torts do cover their nose when drinking so its not unusual and if there aren't any bubbles or wheezing any other times I doubt he has RI.
I believe a pale pink mouth is a sign of good health and food often stains the beak area.
I wouldn't involve a vet, just make sure you have the right temps and a uvb source. 
Good husbandry = good health.
A small pinch of calcium powder a couple of times a week is all that is usually needed and all other vitamins should come from a good diet.


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## Tom (Jan 20, 2022)

ChloeRagusa said:


> Hello all!
> 
> I am hoping to pick the brains of a few members here who seem to really understand desert tortoises so that I can raise my baby right! I recently received what I_ think _is a gopherus agassizii from a neighbor whose tortoises accidentally bred. He (I say he for now just to make life easier) was incubated by the neighbor and raised for 4 months in a small tank with 5 siblings. Hatch date was Sept. 7th. He was raised on spring mix, soaked 2x per week, and taken out to get sun daily.
> 
> ...


You are doing great!

Your tortoise looks normal. The dry head and shedding are normal. The bubbles and noises during/after the soak are normal.

Oxalis is not toxic. Eating a little bit should do no harm. Frankly, I'm not sure it is bad for them at all anymore. It is high in oxalates, but new information has me wondering if that is bad for tortoises at all. They seem to process oxalates differently than other animals, and it doesn't seem to be a problem. I used to feed some oxalis to my sulcatas back when I also mistook it for clover. It didn't appear to do any arm at all. I don't feed it to them on purpose, but a small amount one time won't hurt anything.

I would replace the cardboard hide with something plastic. Black dishwashing tubs from Walmart work well. Just cut out a door hole.

The clamps on those clamp lamps always fail. Hang the light from over head. Don't use the clamp. I remove the clamps entirely. You also want a ceramic base, not the black plastic type.


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## Yvonne G (Jan 20, 2022)

The black on his face is just oxidation from the greens he's been eating.


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## ChloeRagusa (Jan 20, 2022)

CharSparda said:


> A lot of information you just gave, but from what I see and what you explained before the ‘some concerns’ parts, he is in great conditions. The humidity levels around 40-60 per cent are just fine, these are desert tortoises so you shouldn’t expect them to be wet and drinking water all the time. I would recommend feeding him (or her) cactus (see the Mexican nopal).
> 
> As for the second part, my gopherus makes the same noise when he drinks water or has too much food, he kind of ‘sneezes’ and make funny noises with his nose. I think the peeling is normal in the photos, and I don’t see any pyamidism, but the photos are not so very clear.
> 
> Imma quote @Yvonne G @MenagerieGrl and @Lyn W since they’ve helped me with my concerns before. Your tort is precious by the way!


Thank you! I will get him some cactus from the market next time I see it.


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## ChloeRagusa (Jan 20, 2022)

Lyn W said:


> Hi and welcome,
> If your DT is of the Gopherus Genus this caresheet will help you. I can't tell, but there are a lot of DT keepers here who can help you with that.
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you! I definitely read that sheet multiple times and have it bookmarked on my phone to refer to. 
That's good, his breathing is fine and his nose is clear otherwise, so I will stop worrying as much. 
Shoudl I give calcium powder as well as the cuttlebone, remove the bone and switch to powder, or give cuttlebone only?


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## ChloeRagusa (Jan 20, 2022)

Tom said:


> You are doing great!
> 
> Your tortoise looks normal. The dry head and shedding are normal. The bubbles and noises during/after the soak are normal.
> 
> ...


Thank you, Tom. I will replace the hide and lights asap. Lately he has been burrowing down behind the hide anyways, so I think it is definitely time to get rid of the cardboard.


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## Lyn W (Jan 21, 2022)

ChloeRagusa said:


> Thank you! I definitely read that sheet multiple times and have it bookmarked on my phone to refer to.
> That's good, his breathing is fine and his nose is clear otherwise, so I will stop worrying as much.
> Shoudl I give calcium powder as well as the cuttlebone, remove the bone and switch to powder, or give cuttlebone only?


I use calcium powder because my tort completely ignores his cuttlebone most of the time, but it's there if he wants it.
Does your tort nibble on it regularly?


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## ChloeRagusa (Jan 21, 2022)

Lyn W said:


> I use calcium powder because my tort completely ignores his cuttlebone most of the time, but it's there if he wants it.
> Does your tort nibble on it regularly?


He does, surprisingly. He seems to go for it a little bit every few days, have a couple bites, and leave it be till the next few days pass.


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## Maggie3fan (Jan 21, 2022)

I am no expert by any means, however, I think you need shade and plants and rocks and a water feature, that substrate looks dry and like that coco coir stuff...needs to be damp. The top of that habitat needs to be closed off so that the humidity will stay in there. There also needs to to be sight barriers and stuff to do and and stuff to climb on. In my opinion the way that you're keeping him now is just like the minimum of care... But that's just my opinion. You have a great species of tortoise there and I would like to see you make a success of growing him up because they're just great and such a personable species...so take what you need from my opinion and throw away the rest hang around and ask questions...

welcome


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## ChloeRagusa (Jan 21, 2022)

maggie3fan said:


> I am no expert by any means, however, I think you need shade and plants and rocks and a water feature, that substrate looks dry and like that coco coir stuff...needs to be damp. The top of that habitat needs to be closed off so that the humidity will stay in there. There also needs to to be sight barriers and stuff to do and and stuff to climb on. In my opinion the way that you're keeping him now is just like the minimum of care... But that's just my opinion. You have a great species of tortoise there and I would like to see you make a success of growing him up because they're just great and such a personable species...so take what you need from my opinion and throw away the rest hang around and ask questions...
> View attachment 339260
> welcome


Hi there! Thanks for the reply. The photo and description are from the first week we got him when we really did know what we were doing AT ALL. No need to worry, he is not receiving minimum care. But that is why we are here- to learn and figure out what works. 

At this time his cage has several rocks to climb (safely) and to break up his line of sight. As for shade, he has a hide (soon to be updated) and we will soon be adding a tortoise safe plant. Slowly but surely, as I am operating on a social worker salary ?

He has a large shallow water bowl he can go into (and often poops in), but I don't think I can afford a running water feature or anything like that for him. His bowl is low and pretty flush with the substrate so he can get in and out very easily. He gets filtered water (think Crystal Geyser) and we change it daily. 

The coco coir is damp, and we spray it down daily/ turn it weekly. The attached photo is from when I first placed the substrate into his cage- I assure you it is very damp as it was just hydrated moments before the photo was taken. Humidity hovers at around 50% right now and we bathe him daily for 15-30 minutes. 

The top is closed much of the time, but that doesn't make for a good photo of the inside of the enclosure (thus why it is off in the photos). Right now the cover is wood, but my fiance is making something with plexiglass and wood so that we can see in. 

Thank you for sharing your opionion! Much appreciated. If you have any ideas for other enrichment items please don't hesitate to let me know! 

He's such an awesome little guy already! He runs to our hands and climbs in them to be picked up which is adorable (and convenient). So much personality! We can't wait to grow up with him. Your tort is so cute!


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## Maggie3fan (Jan 21, 2022)

ChloeRagusa said:


> Hi there! Thanks for the reply. The photo and description are from the first week we got him when we really did know what we were doing AT ALL. No need to worry, he is not receiving minimum care. But that is why we are here- to learn and figure out what works.
> 
> At this time his cage has several rocks to climb (safely) and to break up his line of sight. As for shade, he has a hide (soon to be updated) and we will soon be adding a tortoise safe plant. Slowly but surely, as I am operating on a social worker salary ?
> 
> ...


That photo was an adult DT that I had. I keep Sulcata now. Sounds like you are working hard for the tort. Did you name him? Remember the only ignorant question is one that is not asked...lol I'm glad you're here...


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## ChloeRagusa (Jan 21, 2022)

maggie3fan said:


> That photo was an adult DT that I had. I keep Sulcata now. Sounds like you are working hard for the tort. Did you name him? Remember the only ignorant question is one that is not asked...lol I'm glad you're here...


His name is Skrink Thank you! Glad to be here as well.


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## Tom (Jan 21, 2022)

Sounds like you are doing everything right. Its very nice to see that.

Do you have an outdoor enclosure for him? Its good to get them some sunshine several times a week, and more as they grow. I like to sun babies for an hour or two, two or three times a week, and then soak them on the way back in. Once they reach about 4-5 inches, I will leave them outside all day in fair weather. The warm sunny days we are having right now are good enough. 70 and sunny will generally work. Be sure there is always shade available too.


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## ChloeRagusa (Jan 21, 2022)

Tom said:


> Sounds like you are doing everything right. Its very nice to see that.
> 
> Do you have an outdoor enclosure for him? Its good to get them some sunshine several times a week, and more as they grow. I like to sun babies for an hour or two, two or three times a week, and then soak them on the way back in. Once they reach about 4-5 inches, I will leave them outside all day in fair weather. The warm sunny days we are having right now are good enough. 70 and sunny will generally work. Be sure there is always shade available too.


Hi Tom!

Thank you! My fiance is building the outdoor enclosure this weekend actually! We just found the right kind of chicken wire to use to protect him from birds. Since we got him we have been taking him outside for 45 min-1 hour daily in a box (with a shaded area, don't worry) and just watching him carefully. I read this helps him metabolize calcium. 

This spring we will be planting native wildflower seeds from a few vendors other people have listed here so he will have lots of variety and at that time we will make a bigger protected space for him. 

He is about 3 inches long and 90 grams at this time. Still fairly small I think?


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## Crystallynda (Jan 29, 2022)

ChloeRagusa said:


> Hello all!
> 
> I am hoping to pick the brains of a few members here who seem to really understand desert tortoises so that I can raise my baby right! I recently received what I_ think _is a gopherus agassizii from a neighbor whose tortoises accidentally bred. He (I say he for now just to make life easier) was incubated by the neighbor and raised for 4 months in a small tank with 5 siblings. Hatch date was Sept. 7th. He was raised on spring mix, soaked 2x per week, and taken out to get sun daily.
> 
> ...


First off, welcome to the group! Your baby looks similar to mine! Honestly your not a lone on being paranoid about the good health of your baby! I was in your shoes not long ago! I asked the same questions myself! I have learned a lot from this group! Definitely reach out for any concerns! 

P.S just keep up with everything everyone has suggested and your baby will do just fine! 

A pic of my baby is attached! This is coco!


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## CharSparda (Feb 2, 2022)

Crystallynda said:


> First off, welcome to the group! Your baby looks similar to mine! Honestly your not a lone on being paranoid about the good health of your baby! I was in your shoes not long ago! I asked the same questions myself! I have learned a lot from this group! Definitely reach out for any concerns!
> 
> P.S just keep up with everything everyone has suggested and your baby will do just fine!
> 
> A pic of my baby is attached! This is coco!



Coco is gorgeous!!


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## Crystallynda (Feb 6, 2022)

CharSparda said:


> Coco is gorgeous!!


Thank you


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## Crystallynda (Feb 10, 2022)

Question, is a tortoise beak from the bottom supposed to be long? Or is this okay for juvenile tortoises! 

I do have calcium bars in his house for him to consume whenever! Is that enough or should I place a rock he can rub on?


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## Tom (Feb 10, 2022)

Crystallynda said:


> Question, is a tortoise beak from the bottom supposed to be long? Or is this okay for juvenile tortoises!
> 
> I do have calcium bars in his house for him to consume whenever! Is that enough or should I place a rock he can rub on?


Start your own thread and post some clear close up pics for us. Then we can help figure out what advice to give you.


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## Crystallynda (Feb 11, 2022)

Tom said:


> Start your own thread and post some clear close up pics for us. Then we can help figure out what advice to give you.


Sounds good!


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