# Baytril side effects?



## Ashliewood (Mar 18, 2012)

I mr turtle is on day 3 of his baytril injections, he is quite lethargic and not as excitable with foods. The vet said they didn't hurt him but he does a little squeak when I do it :-( its really tearing at my wart strings. Has anyone else had this reaction? Just a little note, he is being treated for some shell rot, but prior to the baytril he was active running laps around his enclosure.


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## Yvonne G (Mar 18, 2012)

Well, your vet is totally wrong. Baytril hurts like hell!!! It stings very badly. It even sometimes makes the injected leg paralyzed. 

I always think its a good idea to follow your vet's instructions, but in this particular case, I just don't see using Baytril, an antibiotic, to clear up shell rot. Can you find another reptile vet and get a second opinion? You might even try PM'ing our own exoticsdr and get his opinion.


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## Ashliewood (Mar 18, 2012)

I sent a message to exoticsdr. The next
Closest exotic vet is about 40 min away. Money is also tricky :-/ our most recent visit was over $100, so I only want to go if absolutely have to.


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## TortieLuver (Mar 18, 2012)

I agree with Yvonne. Baytril does sting during injection and can cause a lot more harm than good. If it's difficult money wise to go to another vet/second opinion, I would try calling the vet who you saw since he has already examined your tort and ask for another drug. That way you wouldn't need to pay for another office visit and could just pickup another drug.


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## ascott (Mar 18, 2012)

We are talking about a Russian Tortoise right? why the hell would a vet offer up baytril injections for shell rot? Did you ask the vet WHY IN THE WORLD they would prescribe this treatment for shell rot????? If there was some other reason for the baytril then that vet should have told you....I would NOT use the baytril injections for shell rot....not not not....

If the baytril is needed for RI or other injury then I would say do what you have to do ....but not for shell rot.

oh yeah and if the vet did prescribe baytril for the shell rot did the vet even bother to go over with you what causes it....what to change about your husbandry to help prevent it in the future....etc.....? You would think that a competent vet would have gone over prevention along with treatment....not just a strong antibiotic and send you on your way....jeeez


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## Ashliewood (Mar 18, 2012)

We did discuss husbandry and the husbandry has been different for about a
Month. I did ask why antibiotics and se said a preventative to
Keep theft from spreading.... Did not discuss the possible harm it could cause :-( I wil be making a
Call tomorrow to her.


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## ascott (Mar 18, 2012)

> I did ask why antibiotics and se said a preventative to
> Keep theft from spreading.



Let me apologize from the start here.....I do not mean for anything that I am asking to come across as though I am questioning you dear  I personally think that the vet did a poor job at helping you out (based on what the reason you brought the tort in for and the poor information you were given in return--based on what you explained, you know?)

I do not think that I would ever think, oh yes baytril is what I need because I spotted shell rot on my tortoise....just is not a thing to do, to me...and to keep it from spreading would be to adjust your husbandry (or if the tortoise is new to you then your newly provided environment would be the change)....

I personally am just not understanding why such a powerful antibiotic was given for your tortoise with shell rot....so please don't let anything here be taken personally by you, as my annoyance is for the vet in this case...okay


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## Ashliewood (Mar 18, 2012)

No I'm definitely not taking it personally  when I questioned the doctor she gets kind of defensive kinda like why would I question her...on another post I said that when she was doing her exam he
Blew some clear stuff out of his nose ad thought at first that's why she gave it
But when I called to question her she "reassured" me it was for the shell rot :-(


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## ascott (Mar 18, 2012)

....well I personally would not give baytril for shell rot.....I don't know about anyone else but just sharing my thoughts....lol

Also...if a vet appears annoyed when questions are presented then I would have a problem with that...a vet that supports their knowledge should be able to relay that knowledge to offer assurance, you know?

Are you treating the shell rot soots topically as well?


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## Ashliewood (Mar 18, 2012)

Yes she gave me
Some blue wash to apply to the spots after soaks


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## Ashliewood (Mar 19, 2012)

The dr wants me to stop the baytril, she said " we were just doing it to possibly
Keep the rot from spreading and hopefully it doesn't because we will have to come
Up with another way to treat it" from
What I understand it doesn't seem like there is that little treatment options like she is making it seem. Needless to say I will drive the 40 minutes to our old vet next time


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## ascott (Mar 19, 2012)

The reason that I asked if your vet went over details with you about the baytril as treatment possibly for other things maybe but just forgot to tell you was, if the vet noticed the shell rot was severe/deep then I could understand possibly giving antibiotic injections, but the vet should have gone into detail if this was her thought as it would no longer simply be shell rot....HOWEVER, if the shell rot is not severe/deep then antibiotic injections seem extreme and so when you said she was doing it "in case"...it would have made sense to me if the vet then said because the shell rot is severe and or deep set...but the vet did not do that...

Well, glad to hear you can offer the topical treatment in lieu of the injections...


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## MORTYtheTORTY (Mar 19, 2012)

Ive heard bad things about baytril  I've even read up on others stories about their tort passing due to baytril. I hope I never have to experience that! Can I ask, how did your tort get shell rot? Just asking so it may help others as well...hope your tort gets better and I know it must be hard.

oh yah...update us on the progress


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## ascott (Mar 19, 2012)

I have to mention, Baytril is an effective and strong antibiotic if used in the right situation....I have used it and would use it again if the need was warranted....but again, it is a strong antibiotic---so in that, I agree it should not be a readily used antibiotic just because....


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## StudentoftheReptile (Mar 19, 2012)

In my experience with other vets other than the current one I use, I have noticed that Baytril is the "begin-all, end-all, cure-all" drug they use for a virtually any illness for any reptile. In retrospect, I have come to discover that it simply is not, and I have even lost a few animals when using Baytril. At the time, my young naivety just assumed the animal was "too far gone" but now I have come to believe that using the Baytril may have been a factor in those cases. Of course, I'll never know for sure, but I'm very leery of Baytril nowadays.


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## Ashliewood (Mar 19, 2012)

She seemed surprised herself that my tort was having adverse reactions to it. Anyways. I'm
Hoping he gets back to naughty self soon. He stays in the same
Spot for hours which is not normal for him at all. And the shell rot came
From
Keeping his enclosure too moist. I was trying to keep his hide a little bit humid before I knew for sure that that's not necessarily what he needed. Also I use just dirt so it hold moisture for a long time., I have since changed his living conditions


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## dmmj (Mar 19, 2012)

some doctors and vets use antibiotics as a cure all for just about everything. I am glad the vet suggested you stop it as a preventative. I think your vet has most of us baffled using an antibiotic for shell rot. I agree if your vet was annoyed at you for asking questions I might find another vet, when ever I visit my vet he answers all of my questions that I ask, no matter how silly they may seem.


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## Ashliewood (Mar 19, 2012)

Yes I won't go back to her. His old vet was amazing and very knowledgable


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## TortieLuver (Mar 19, 2012)

Just curious...was the doctor you saw a herp vet? I only recommend seeing ones that specialize in tortoises, as they are trained to deal with tortoise care and are most familiar with them. I have been quite surprised over the years by other people's stories about bringing them to a non herp vet and how little the vets really know about tortoises and what to prescribe for their problem.


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## Ashliewood (Mar 19, 2012)

Yes she is an "extotic" vet that specializes in reptiles. 

Does that count?


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## MORTYtheTORTY (Mar 19, 2012)

I'm confused as to how the tort can get shell rot in a moist environment?! can someone answer this for me if possible...if the humidity is high, isn't that considered moist in a way? My tank says the humidity is @70 and I also have grass around the perimeter of the enclosure and I wet it if it looks dry but mostly spray it with a spray bottle. I used coconut coir without squeezing the excess water so it's damp and they seem to love it but now I'm worried about how shell rott is developed 



Ashliewood said:


> Yes she is an "extotic" vet that specializes in reptiles.
> 
> Does that count?





I don't think that counts LOL  my vet blows and they are exotic but I have NEVER seen any exotic animals other than cats and dogs and the way my vet handles things isn't up to par with taking my tort in so I might have to look for another vet for my dogs and torts but the only thing is, I haven't found another vet around here that is retile specific. I will either have to travel or do some thorough research.


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## StudentoftheReptile (Mar 19, 2012)

MORTYtheTORTY said:


> I'm confused as to how the tort can get shell rot in a moist environment?! can someone answer this for me if possible...if the humidity is high, isn't that considered moist in a way? My tank says the humidity is @70 and I also have grass around the perimeter of the enclosure and I wet it if it looks dry but mostly spray it with a spray bottle. I used coconut coir without squeezing the excess water so it's damp and they seem to love it but now I'm worried about how shell rott is developed



From what I understand, "Shellrot" (which is kind of a unofficial, and sometimes inaccurate catch-all term itself for any number of shell-related maladies) is not necessarily caused by high humidity, but by damp, overly-moist substrate. A lot of us are still trying to fine-tune how we maintain "high humidity" in our torts' enclosures, but the long and short of it is that you do not have to create a muddy, swampy substrate to raise the humidity. In fact, many people do that, having their reptiles practically living in mud, and it doesn't do a darn thing to raise humidity. That damp, swampy, moist bedding environment is what seems to cause shellrot, NOT humidity.


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## MORTYtheTORTY (Mar 19, 2012)

StudentoftheReptile said:


> MORTYtheTORTY said:
> 
> 
> > I'm confused as to how the tort can get shell rot in a moist environment?! can someone answer this for me if possible...if the humidity is high, isn't that considered moist in a way? My tank says the humidity is @70 and I also have grass around the perimeter of the enclosure and I wet it if it looks dry but mostly spray it with a spray bottle. I used coconut coir without squeezing the excess water so it's damp and they seem to love it but now I'm worried about how shell rott is developed
> ...



Thanks! My coir gets dry on top but moist at the very bottom so I'm thinking that's why it stays at a comfy humidity. It's not swampy or muddy-like but just looks a little damp on top and most likely at the bottom since I water the grass along the perimeter when it needs it but mostly I spray on top, I haven't sprayed in a while though so the top part is drying but the humidity on the hygrometer says 70 so I'm assuming it's good to go. I don't ever want to go through shellrot but asking just in case and was getting worried after readin this.


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## ascott (Mar 19, 2012)

> From what I understand, "Shellrot" (which is kind of a unofficial, and sometimes inaccurate catch-all term itself for any number of shell-related maladies) is not necessarily caused by high humidity, but by damp, overly-moist substrate. A lot of us are still trying to fine-tune how we maintain "high humidity" in our torts' enclosures, but the long and short of it is that you do not have to create a muddy, swampy substrate to raise the humidity. In fact, many people do that, having their reptiles practically living in mud, and it doesn't do a darn thing to raise humidity. That damp, swampy, moist bedding environment is what seems to cause shellrot, NOT humidity.



In addition, it is a good idea to have a place in your enclosure that is left dry, this allows your tortoise the ability to move to a dry place to let their shell completely dry out....


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## dmmj (Mar 19, 2012)

Most people tend to think that shell rot is a combo of several things acidity and high humidity tend to play factors in it. I can't take credit for that idea though I believe geo is the one that theorize that one. I honestly believe that high humidity by itself is not a cause of shell rot.


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## Ashliewood (Mar 19, 2012)

Mmhmm It wasn't muddy, just too wet  there was a dry side, I think that he had this going on when I first got him. I did, after all get him from a chain pet store. Should I change anything else? Any suggestions would be great  I just have regular dirt in there and no longer keep it any amount of wet lol, I keep it dry


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## MORTYtheTORTY (Mar 19, 2012)

Ashliewood said:


> Mmhmm It wasn't muddy, just too wet  there was a dry side, I think that he had this going on when I first got him. I did, after all get him from a chain pet store. Should I change anything else? Any suggestions would be great  I just have regular dirt in there and no longer keep it any amount of wet lol, I keep it dry



If you got him from a petstore then that mostly explains it all...did they keep him dry? I don't understand how he'd get shellrot if kept dry from the petstore, unless, like someone stated above that they fed it too much acidity maybe and a number of reasons. Do you have a pic of the shellrot? Sorry I'm on to this, it's because I keep my hatchlings @70 humidity and I'm just curious/worried now because I never really hear about shellrot


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## Ashliewood (Mar 19, 2012)

Well the people who have had torts far longer than I have just told you it wasnt necessarily from humidity. And yes I can get some pictures for you  I was definitely keeping him too wet in his enclosure. Don't stress  

Pictures


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## MORTYtheTORTY (Mar 20, 2012)

That looks crazy...never seen shellrot...thanks for sharing! 
I was worrying myself because my fiancee messed with the enclosure and sprayed alot in there when it was already moist and the humidity went up to 80 for 2-3 days and then I read your thread so I kinda worried and I let him have it lol he doesn't take care of them and IDK what went through his head thinking to spray the enclosure...maybe he needs to put the beer down 
It went back down to 70 today.


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## Ashliewood (Mar 20, 2012)

And I will mention his enclosure was too wet for weeks for days :-( I am feeling guilty
But it is what it is and it's fixed now


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## ascott (Mar 20, 2012)

Now now...try to appreciate and work through the guilt feelings....put those feelings away....and make the needed tweaks as you have..treat your torts little spot(s) and you now will be in a position to offer your experience to a newbie down the road....everything we know...learn and share is a collective effort to aid in a better captive environment for our shelled friends....you know?


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## MORTYtheTORTY (Mar 20, 2012)

At least you're taking action into changing things and you actually took yours to the vet!! You are doing your job hence trial and error but that's how we all learn and Thank you again for sharing to help others in this situation or to prevent it from happening! Alot of people neglect their torts and you have taken proper steps to helping your tort get better so don't feel guilty...I would give you a pat on your back.


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## Utah Lynn (Mar 20, 2012)

All of this talk about Moisture and Humidity. I have RT's and have always kept them dry. Shouldn't Moisture/Humidity apply to the species of tortoise and where they live in nature?


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## Yvonne G (Mar 20, 2012)

I think it would be a good idea here to remind you all that this thread is entitled "Baytril side effects." Please keep to the topic. If you have other questions, please start a new thread. Utah Lynn, your question is timely and many newbies would benefit from the answer to it. Please start a new thread about this question.


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## exoticsdr (Mar 20, 2012)

Don't believe EVERYTHING you read.
Doc



MORTYtheTORTY said:


> Ive heard bad things about baytril  I've even read up on others stories about their tort passing due to baytril. I hope I never have to experience that! Can I ask, how did your tort get shell rot? Just asking so it may help others as well...hope your tort gets better and I know it must be hard.
> 
> oh yah...update us on the progress


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## Ashliewood (Mar 20, 2012)

Thanks everyone  he is back to his normal self  very naughty


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