# Redfoot After Baytril injection?



## MildredsMommy (Apr 11, 2013)

I am worried and hoping for some advice. I took my new RF, Jerry Lee, to the Exotic vet today. He was given some eye drops and the vet said he had a little congestion in his nose and he diagnosed him with an early stage RI. He gave Jerry Lee a Baytril injection, and I have to return again on Saturday, then Monday, Tuesday, and Weds. Since he got home, Jerry Lee has been sleeping under the Powersun on top of his moss. He does have a humid hide but doesnt show any interest in going in it. How should I be keeping him while he is recovering? The vet said I should allow him to decide where he wants to be, but he has been sleeping with his eyes tightly closed since coming home a few hours ago. I have never had a RF, and my boxie has never had an RI so I am unfamiliar with everything. I have noticed Jerry Lee has sneezed a few times  Can someone please help me???? I am very worried about my baby.
(the temp under the Powersun reads 98 degrees).


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## theelectraco (Apr 11, 2013)

This is just my opinion, and others will disagree, but I am not a fan of the injections. Especially if its just 'early signs' of a Uri. To me, they are overkill, usually stressing out tortoises and worsening symptoms in some cases. I have a red foot who has a uri when I got him/her and I used liquid Baytril and my tortoise improved within a few days and was fully recovered within 10-14 days. If it were me, I would switch to oral Baytril, especially if its eating. Mine wasn't eating and I had to force it the meds, but I think forcing meds once a day was less stressful then doing injections every other day.


Also, upload a pic of your enclosure and maybe we can help you out with setting things up to keep him comfy. What are your other temps? Ambient, basking, night time ? How's the appetite?


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## oscar (Apr 11, 2013)

I myself would give a warm soak once or twice a day, Baytril stings and when
my red foot had a uri a few years ago he went off his food, so after his uri
was cleared up he would not eat I thought he would starve before it ever ate again. The vet we went to diluted the baytril because of the stinging and I would give it an injection daily and switch the site from skin area between front leg and neck. I believe that my red foot knew that a shot was going
to be given after the first few days because it a bit of a struggle to get its
leg out to give the shot.
When it was time for a soak I would keep the water it was in about 82 degrees and
to do that I had a heating pad under part of the rubbermaid tub, and a 
basking lite above and use my temp. gun to check its shell temp and the water
If yours goes off its food I would also do the baby food soaks.
Wish you luck and don't give up.
above


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## Yvonne G (Apr 11, 2013)

Yes, Baytril is pretty harsh on the tortoise. I have switched from injections to giving it orally instead.

We don't know why you took your tortoise to the vet in the first place, but normally what I do when I suspect a sick tortoise is to put him in a hospital tank, soak him in warm water every day and have the tank be about 80-85F degrees overall. This usually perks him up and there is no need for antibiotics.

Since your tortoise seems to have had an adverse reaction to the Baytril, I would not get any more of them, but rather ask the vet about the adverse reaction. Some tortoises, most leopards, are allergic to Baytril, but I've not heard that RFs are.


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## MildredsMommy (Apr 11, 2013)

Thank you so much for the replies-I guess I am confused because everything I read about RFs says they love it humid, but Jerry Lee stays under the Powersun most of the day and ignores his cool/moist side. The vet said "remember dont get him too wet-he is a tortoise." so I am just confused. Surely if he felt he was overheating, instinct would kick in and he would go to the humid side, correct? I know I am rambling I am just very scared.


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## tortadise (Apr 11, 2013)

Baytril works much faster when the animal is warm. Like 80+. Warm soaks is best. Warm up the minimum temps to 80 in the enclosure. I donf like baytril personally. It has to be given perfect to work. It can cause sloughing of muscle and localized necrosis at injection site. Warm everything up and keep him hydrated.


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## MildredsMommy (Apr 11, 2013)

emysemys said:


> Yes, Baytril is pretty harsh on the tortoise. I have switched from injections to giving it orally instead.
> 
> We don't know why you took your tortoise to the vet in the first place, but normally what I do when I suspect a sick tortoise is to put him in a hospital tank, soak him in warm water every day and have the tank be about 80-85F degrees overall. This usually perks him up and there is no need for antibiotics.
> 
> Since your tortoise seems to have had an adverse reaction to the Baytril, I would not get any more of them, but rather ask the vet about the adverse reaction. Some tortoises, most leopards, are allergic to Baytril, but I've not heard that RFs are.



Not being overly familiar with RFs (at all) I was less than confident in my skills to care for him on my own. Being relatively new to the turtle world, I felt it was in Jerry Lee's best interest for me to take him to a professional. I will be the first to admit I am paranoid when it comes to any of my "kids" but I am trying to take it as a "live and learn" experience. I only want to do right by my new baby, and I am quickly finding out maybe I jumped the gun-but I panicked.


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## oscar (Apr 11, 2013)

MildredsMommy said:


> emysemys said:
> 
> 
> > Yes, Baytril is pretty harsh on the tortoise. I have switched from injections to giving it orally instead.
> ...


I was wondering how old or big Jerry Lee is? Does he rub his eyes with
his front legs, does he seem like his eyes are tearing?
It was so tuff for me in the beginning of having red foots to keep them warm and humid, it still seems like a fine line cause if substrate is to wet they can get shell rot and two dry possible respiratory problems.


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## MildredsMommy (Apr 11, 2013)

oscar said:


> MildredsMommy said:
> 
> 
> > emysemys said:
> ...


The people at the expo said he was 1-2 years old. I would say he is about 3 inches long. He does rub his eyes with his front legs, even while soaking. The vet put a stain in his eye to check for cornea scratches but said there wasnt any. I did get sent home with eye drops to be given twice daily. When he sleeps, his little eyes are tightly shut and appear puffy. He has a large hide box which is a small plastic tub full of moist spaghum moss. His other substrate is Ecco Earth. I keep some moss under the PowerSun also. He has pyramiding so I know he probably didnt get housed correctly where he came from. The humidity level on his cooler side seems to stay at about 70-80 degrees.


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## Godcomplex (Apr 11, 2013)

I just went to vet yesterday for RI symptoms . The vet gave suki vitamin injection , ozone steam treatment ( something to do with vaporized meds) , eye drops because the eyes a bit swollen, and nose drop. Suki is doing good now. Very active, and i just found out that suki have bladder stone finally yesterday suki pass it out.


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## MildredsMommy (Apr 11, 2013)

Godcomplex said:


> I just went to vet yesterday for RI symptoms . The vet gave suki vitamin injection , ozone steam treatment ( something to do with vaporized meds) , eye drops because the eyes a bit swollen, and nose drop. Suki is doing good now. Very active, and i just found out that suki have bladder stone finally yesterday suki pass it out.



What a cute name! I am glad Suki is doing better.


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## theelectraco (Apr 11, 2013)

Temperatures ??


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## EricIvins (Apr 11, 2013)

If the Vet chose to give the animal injections over oral, there is a reason for it. Injections are absorbed faster and generally work better than oral. The one thing I do question is the fact that your Vet did not do cultures to actually know what is going with the animal. Baytril is a very overused and abused anti-biotic, and just is not as effective as it once was. There are many other anti-biotics on the market that have phased Baytril out, and are more effective overall. However, you won't know which is best to use until you know what you are dealing with internally........


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## ascott (Apr 11, 2013)

> The vet said "remember dont get him too wet-he is a tortoise."



This statement alone would send me heading for the hills....especially since you are dealing with this species....the vet should have known the difference between different species needs and requirements.

I have used baytril (on an adult Ca Desert Tort) and all worked out just fine....I would hesitate in offering a shot in the torts back legs, this is a dangerous area to mess around with unless you are precise and experienced in what is where....also, when giving a strong antibiotic injection in the back legs you have a torts kidneys that will receive an intense strong jolt of that antibiotic....I would give the shots in the front of the tort in the soft loose skin between the neck and the front leg..if you are treating with antibiotic then please be sure to increase soaks to long ones a couple of times at least a day for half an hour each (at least) because antibiotics are rough on their kidneys...

I also have a problem with a vet that "guesses" what is wrong with a tort as well.....there are other things that can cause a wet nose besides a URI....

I would also bump your temps in the enclosure to 85 and drop the humidity a little while your guy is recovering...and I would place him a little out of the basking hot spot and see if he also remains there or if he moves to or away from that spot....

Stress is a huge hazard to a tort....a trip to the vet is hugely stressful..so I would hesitate in taking him each day as you outlined...that is alot of stress....

What was the initial reason you took your tort to the vet anyways?


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## MildredsMommy (Apr 12, 2013)

ascott said:


> > The vet said "remember dont get him too wet-he is a tortoise."
> 
> 
> 
> ...



He was constantly pawing at his eyes, blowing little booger bubbles, wheezing, and stretching his neck and gaping his mouth. Please understand as a new person to the tortoise world, all the information out there is VERY confusing. Another forum I was on encourages going to the vet...I am just frustrated at this point. I am only trying to do right by him-never once in my life did I think I would be told taking an ill animal to a vet was a BAD idea....I understand how knowledgeable everyone on this site is, but I myself am not at that level. I didnt feel comfortable sitting around waiting for replies instead of taking him in. I am watching him closely going forward and will speak to the vet regarding oral doses (which, by the way, other forums say is much more stressful than the injections-see how I get mixed up here?) I do appreciate everyone I just ask to have patience with a newbie who is learning  and he is getting the injection(s) in his front leg, between the scales, alternating each leg on injection.


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## Yvonne G (Apr 12, 2013)

It is not as important, for a redfooted tortoise, to have a hot side and a cool side. Redfooted tortoises can have the same temperature all across the habitat. And since your tortoise is sick, it should be a given that the temp would be the same all across the habitat. 

With the symptoms you've described, you did the right thing in taking the tortoise to the vet. I only wish the vet had taken a smear to see what pathogens he was dealing with before just automatically prescribing the Baytril.

So, be sure to soak your tortoise daily in warm water for at least a half hour each time, checking often to make sure he's not tipped over and is doing ok. Set him up in a smaller, hospital tank with a constant temperature all across the tank of about 80-85F degrees.

I would be sure to talk to the vet about discontinuing the injections because of the way the first injection affected the tortoise, and ask if there is another antibiotic he can substitute instead. A couple of the others that are used for respiratory infections are Fortaz (ceftazidime) and Amikacin.


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## MildredsMommy (Apr 12, 2013)

emysemys said:


> It is not as important, for a redfooted tortoise, to have a hot side and a cool side. Redfooted tortoises can have the same temperature all across the habitat. And since your tortoise is sick, it should be a given that the temp would be the same all across the habitat.
> 
> With the symptoms you've described, you did the right thing in taking the tortoise to the vet. I only wish the vet had taken a smear to see what pathogens he was dealing with before just automatically prescribing the Baytril.
> 
> ...



Thanks Yvonne  I just soaked Jerry Lee in warm water under his MVB light and he perked right up-I let him soak about twenty minutes and then I gave him his eye drops. (his eyes were shut when I initially took him out, but they now look bigger and clearer than they have in days). He is already chowing down on some Mazuri and mango. I will do as you have suggested and just concentrate on the one temp across the board-I did make him a nice humid hide stuffed full of spaghum moss but he shows no interest in it as of yet. Seeing him perk up and eat has made about 50 lbs of worry drop off my back!!! Thanks again!!


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## deadheadvet (Apr 14, 2013)

It has actually been pharmicokinetically worked out to be more effective to give injectable baytril orally


The dosing is the same but less trauma to the tissue. Just have to get the tortoise to take it.
I agree with the others with warm daily soaks. Makes a big difference. Get the vet to change to oral or find a new vet. This only a in regards to baytril, not every antibiotic can be given oraly.


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## DaisyDuke (Apr 14, 2013)

I agree that you did the right thing by taking him to the vet. I have no personal experience with that antibiotic, I just wanted to welcome a fellow RT parent to the forum and to tell you you've definitely come to the right place. If it weren't for this forum who knows what condition my Sheldon would be in


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## MildredsMommy (Apr 14, 2013)

DaisyDuke said:


> I agree that you did the right thing by taking him to the vet. I have no personal experience with that antibiotic, I just wanted to welcome a fellow RT parent to the forum and to tell you you've definitely come to the right place. If it weren't for this forum who knows what condition my Sheldon would be in



Thank you for that  the vet was out yesterday so Jerry Lee got his 2nd injection-I am leaving a message as soon as I get off the computer about switching to the oral-not only for his sake, but it is very hard for me to leave during work three days next week to take him back and forth. He is still having his daily soaks, I get the water warm then place the tub under his light so he stays warm. His appetite has waned slightly, but he is still eating and yesterday went poo so I am taking that in tomorrow for the fecal exam. Everyone on this forum has been beyond kind and helpful!


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## tortadise (Apr 16, 2013)

So how is the JerryLee doing now?


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## deadheadvet (Apr 17, 2013)

Remember anything can be compounded. Tortoises really go for strawberry, so that would be the flavor I would pick.


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