# Virus supplies worldwide comparison



## Toddrickfl1

It's getting a little sketchy here in GA. Everything closing, stores empty. People acting irrational. Be mindful of germs and stay safe out there tortoise forum friends.


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## NorCal tortoise guy

Getting crazy fast here as well


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## ZenHerper

That's some hardcore prepping.

I've lost one income stream (too much direct contact with people).

It would be nice if we could all move around less and squash the curve, but my other job lets me see too much of how gross and entitled people are. *sigh*

Amazon has stopped letting mass re-sellers buy up all of their cleaning supplies, so you may be able to find stock there. Some brick-and-mortar retailers are limiting purchase quantities to keep communities more or less equally supplied.


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## Toddrickfl1

NorCal tortoise guy said:


> Getting crazy fast here as well


I'm honestly more worried about paying my bills than I am the illness. My 88 year old grandmother lives with me and I do worry for her. I went to 5 stores this morning and they're all out of Toilet paper, paper towels, bread, and water.


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## EllieMay

This crazy!!!!! Stay safe


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## Bébert81

Wow! Less impressive in France even if we are more touched than your country!


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## ZEROPILOT

I thought that this might be an interesting venture. Made possible by the fact that we have members from every corner of the world...

Please report with a description or with photos, the virus situation in your area.
Here in southeast Florida, we have just a few cases of the virus and no deaths. However, people are fighting over rolls of toilet paper and you are hard pressed to find BLEACH, ALCOHOL, DISINFECTANT WIPES AND SPRAY, TOILET PAPER, PAPER TOWELS, BOTTLED WATER,SURGICAL GLOVES OR MASKS or HAND SANITIZER.
We're a little used to this happening here to some extent right before a hurricane hits. But that would include BATTERIES, WATER and GASOLINE.


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## Blackdog1714

Luckily the Middle East is doing a barrel dump-gas is down to $2 a gallon in RICHMOND


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## Toddrickfl1

I went to five different stores this morning. No bread, meat, milk, paper towels/toilet paper, water/soda, dog or cat food, or cleaning supplies.


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## ZenHerper

Toddrickfl1 said:


> I'm honestly more worried about paying my bills than I am the illness. My 88 year old grandmother lives with me and I do worry for her. I went to 5 stores this morning and they're all out of Toilet paper, paper towels, bread, and water.



Contact your state's unemployment office to see what the current policy is for folks who have been temporarily put on hold. As things develop and states go Emergency Status, more resources may become available for income replacement.









Charmin Ultra Gentle Toilet Paper, 12 Mega Rolls - Walmart.com


Not available Buy Charmin Ultra Gentle Toilet Paper, 12 Mega Rolls at Walmart.com



www.walmart.com













Bounty Select-A-Size Paper Towels, White, 8 Triple Rolls - Walmart.com


Arrives by Thu, Dec 29 Buy Bounty Select-A-Size Paper Towels, White, 8 Triple Rolls at Walmart.com



www.walmart.com













POLAND SPRING Brand 100% Natural Spring Water, 16.9-ounce plastic bottles (Pack of 24) - Walmart.com


Arrives by Fri, Jan 6 Buy POLAND SPRING Brand 100% Natural Spring Water, 16.9-ounce plastic bottles (Pack of 24) at Walmart.com



www.walmart.com





Bread, you might consider doing the old-fashioned way!

((Hugs))


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## Maro2Bear

We made a run to our local SamsClub yesterday....parking lot was full at 1400 in the afternoon. Didnt go inside. We went first thing this morning at 0830 - same thing. Packed. Ppl standing in line for cases of water, but we circumnavigated that line & bought cases of Propel. No paper towels or toilet paper. We bought paper plates & paper napkins too. Lots of empty shelves, including bread/rolls. Everything else seemed ok.


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## Maggie3fan

Went in to town yesterday...our governor passed a bill that there cannot be a gathering of over 250 people in Oregon...I live in a small town, they are 10 cases of actual virus. Schools are cancelled, all the athletic events cancelled, people are freaked out...I stocked up on Stoffers, and soda...there was no rice, beans, or pasta, I literally got the last 4 freakin rolls of t paper...this is a town so small that I have the only red IROC and everybody knows it...there isn't even a Wendys here...but we got the freakin virus??? People are panicked wearing masks at the store...I didn't need a mask as I dislike most people and don't ever get close enough to one that they could cough on me. Crap.



Toddrickfl1 said:


> It's getting a little sketchy here in GA. Everything closing, stores empty. People acting irrational. Be mindful of germs and stay safe out there tortoise forum friends.
> View attachment 287906
> View attachment 287907
> View attachment 287908
> View attachment 287909


Here as well...now it's hit home and starting to get scary...


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## Maro2Bear

Blackdog1714 said:


> Luckily the Middle East is doing a barrel dump-gas is down to $2 a gallon in RICHMOND



We filled up today at SamsClub $1.98/gallon. No paper products, but cheap gas.


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## Maro2Bear

But, gas is cheap!


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## Yvonne G

Dang it! I forgot to buy paper towels yesterday when I went shopping. Now I suppose I'll be outta' luck next Thursday when I go.


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## Sleppo

Philly is pretty crazy, they are shutting down the schools for 2 weeks. They are doing a mandatory containment in the county next to us. I take public transportation and god forbid you sneeze or clear your throat people will give you the nastiest looks. Take care of yourselves, families and neighbors. Be especially aware of the elderly and homeless.


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## ZEROPILOT

3:37 pm
Eastern std time
its now a NATIONAL emergency


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## ZEROPILOT

Toddrickfl1 said:


> I went to five different stores this morning. No bread, meat, milk, paper towels/toilet paper, water/soda, dog or cat food, or cleaning supplies.
> View attachment 287924
> View attachment 287925
> View attachment 287926
> View attachment 287927


Damn!
Meat too?


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## Pistachio's Pamperer

New Mexico here. Northern part of state. Supposedly "unconfirmed" cases nearby. And supposedly a "confirmed" case just over the state border(about an hour away). 

We have been placed under a no more than a 100 ppl gathering rule, only exception being churches. Thus places like SAMS are doing head counts. There are lines to even go in, once inside, lines to get your allotment of water, paper products, etc. ((IF they have it.))

As of Monday, schools here are closed for at least 3 weeks. And our local college hasn't yet made a determination as to what they are going to do yet. ((Our college also contains a high school for advanced kids.)) Kids are on spring break here come Monday, so I am assuming the college will make a decision once it is time to go back. Lots of push for computer/online courses, as we are an area where the kids are issued a computer in 1st grade and keep it until graduation. The college also insists all students have a computer. All sports are canceled. All academic meets are canceled. All theater shows canceled. 

I "saw" this crap coming and did my shopping a couple of weeks ago, although I didn't do anything like buy enough for a year or anything. I am glad I did, as I wouldn't even currently step in any stores locally. The people in the house have enough supplies for awhile. As do the pets. This is one of those times when I am glad that I have two fridges, two freezers, and a pantry. Also glad that I grow a lot of Pistachio's food.

And whether folks like it or not. I checked the cabinets/fridges, but I also checked the ammo situation. 
I am not afraid of the virus, and maybe that is dumb? I am more afraid of how people are reacting. 

-Meg


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## ZEROPILOT

Sleppo said:


> Philly is pretty crazy, they are shutting down the schools for 2 weeks. They are doing a mandatory containment in the county next to us. I take public transportation and god forbid you sneeze or clear your throat people will give you the nastiest looks. Take care of yourselves, families and neighbors. Be especially aware of the elderly and homeless.


I had to sign some virus paperwork this morning before I could get into the eye doctor.
Once inside, I had a coughing/choking fit after drinking some water. 
People became clearly uncomfortable


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## Maggie3fan

Maro2Bear said:


> We filled up today at SamsClub $1.98/gallon. No paper products, but cheap gas.



I use premium down to $306 frm $3.30


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## ZEROPILOT

Pistachio's Pamperer said:


> New Mexico here. Northern part of state. Supposedly "unconfirmed" cases nearby. And supposedly a "confirmed" case just over the state border(about an hour away).
> 
> We have been placed under a no more than a 100 ppl gathering rule, only exception being churches. Thus places like SAMS are doing head counts. There are lines to even go in, once inside, lines to get your allotment of water, paper products, etc. ((IF they have it.))
> 
> As of Monday, schools here are closed for at least 3 weeks. And our local college hasn't yet made a determination as to what they are going to do yet. ((Our college also contains a high school for advanced kids.)) Kids are on spring break here come Monday, so I am assuming the college will make a decision once it is time to go back. Lots of push for computer/online courses, as we are an area where the kids are issued a computer in 1st grade and keep it until graduation. The college also insists all students have a computer. All sports are canceled. All academic meets are canceled. All theater shows canceled.
> 
> I "saw" this crap coming and did my shopping a couple of weeks ago, although I didn't do anything like buy enough for a year or anything. I am glad I did, as I wouldn't even currently step in any stores locally. The people in the house have enough supplies for awhile. As do the pets. This is one of those times when I am glad that I have two fridges, two freezers, and a pantry. Also glad that I grow a lot of Pistachio's food.
> 
> And whether folks like it or not. I checked the cabinets/fridges, but I also checked the ammo situation.
> I am not afraid of the virus, and maybe that is dumb? I am more afraid of how people are reacting.
> 
> -Meg


"How people are reacting"is already pretty poor.
Most Americans are armed. And a lot of us are NUTS!


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## Maggie3fan

ZEROPILOT said:


> "How people are reacting"is already pretty poor.
> Most Americans are armed. And a lot of us are NUTS!


I am a member of 111% here in Oregon...I so believe in owning and open carry guns...But with the run on guns I don't understand...I've been asking...What'cha gonna do Oregon...shoot sick people?


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## Maggie3fan

So no Pac 12, no school, no NBA, no baseball, in Oregon gatherings of 250 people is illegal, no t-paper, empty store shelves, cheaper gas. But...my prayers have been answered because NASCAR announced that the next 2 NASCAR races, Atlanta, and Homestead will run...without spectators...good for me...not for the 100,000 fans who will miss the race in person, and NASCAR will lose so much income it boggles my mind...Hurrah for NASCAR and all it's loyal fans...


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## Toddrickfl1

maggie18fan said:


> So no Pac 12, no school, no NBA, no baseball, in Oregon gatherings of 250 people is illegal, no t-paper, empty store shelves, cheaper gas. But...my prayers have been answered because NASCAR announced that the next 2 NASCAR races, Atlanta, and Homestead will run...without spectators...good for me...not for the 100,000 fans who will miss the race in person, and NASCAR will lose so much income it boggles my mind...Hurrah for NASCAR and all it's loyal fans...


It doesn't make sense either because there is literally thousands of fans that were going to the race camping out and tailgating outside the track to listen to the race. Might as well just let them in lol


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## ZEROPILOT

maggie18fan said:


> I am a member of 111% here in Oregon...I so believe in owning and open carry guns...But with the run on guns I don't understand...I've been asking...What'cha gonna do Oregon...shoot sick people?


Open carry always made more sense to me. Florida is concealed carry only.
I'm also licensed.
Carrying guns is a strange concept to non Americans. (And to some Americans)
I've had some long, drawn out conversations about how I rationalize it. And I must admit that the reasons are real and unfortunate. At least one forum member and I no longer speak because of my views.
I guess it crosses into our wise policy of NO RELIGION OR POLITICS posts.


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## Turtulas-Len

I'm in the small town of Colonial Beach Va, Everything is normal here. the only grocery store in town is a Food Lion and shelves were full of all products except no powdered milk and only 3 bottles of coke zero in the big bottles yesterday. Today I went to the great valu store a couple miles outside of town to get ground beef for $1.99 a pound and their shelves were full, they had powdered milk and coke zero. Filled the truck up with gas yesterday for $1.96 a gallon. Everyone I've talked to about the virus here is expecting it to show up but not panicking about it. Also almost all my friends here are over 65 years old and been through times like this before. Everybody Stay Safe.


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## ZEROPILOT

Turtulas-Len said:


> I'm in the small town of Colonial Beach Va, Everything is normal here. the only grocery store in town is a Food Lion and shelves were full of all products except no powdered milk and only 3 bottles of coke zero in the big bottles yesterday. Today I went to the great valu store a couple miles outside of town to get ground beef for $1.99 a pound and their shelves were full, they had powdered milk and coke zero. Filled the truck up with gas yesterday for $1.96 a gallon. Everyone I've talked to about the virus here is expecting it to show up but not panicking about it. Also almost all my friends here are over 65 years old and been through times like this before. Everybody Stay Safe.


Thanks for that report.
Nice to know that the entire U.S. east coast hasn't gone nuts.


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## Toddrickfl1




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## Turtulas-Len

ZEROPILOT said:


> Thanks for that report.
> Nice to know that the entire U.S. east coast hasn't gone nuts.


We are sorta off the grid. People want to come here to be here. You don't pass through here while heading to go some place else unless you are totally lost.


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## JoeWells

Morro Bay, CA. Only thing missing from grocery store is toilet paper. I got excited about the gas after seeing this thread this morning but unfortunately it hasn’t changed. 3.33/gal. My county was apparently one of the highest prices in the nation as of a couple weeks ago. The news says there are no confirmed cases in my county yet but I’m skeptical. We’re smack dab in the middle of LA and San Francisco so I’m sure it’s worked it’s way up or down already. My little tort is sleeping, munching and cruising so I’m happy. Best of luck to all.


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## Yvonne G

My daughter went shopping after work today (Clovis, California) at Winco (a big warehouse type grocery store) and she said there were lines of people trying to get to the paper goods aisle and by the time my daughter got to the aisle, the shelves were empty - no T-paper or paper towels, etc. She said the store and parking lot were very crowded.


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## ZenHerper

A pandemic a natural disaster. 

The only difference to things like massive floods, blizzards, and earthquakes is that infrastructure remains intact.


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## Maggie3fan

Just got an email...Corvallis Oregon from the Pastor of my church...all services are cancelled, his sermon will be live on-line, all the life groups cancelled...the groups who help the poor...and there are notices on FB...from truckers, bikers, farmers sending out notices in different counties, including phone numbers, call us we are setting up contacts to help the poor with necessities, diapers, food etc. It's a Grass Roots thing and I am proud of the groups in my area who are doing this...


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## Yvonne G

Governor of California has ruled that groups larger than 250 people can't meet. That means the school where my daughter works has to serve half the kids their lunch outside and the other half in the cafeteria, as they serve more than 250 kids at a time. 

This doesn't make sense to me. What do they do with the kids in the cafeteria when they're finished with their lunch? 

Will told me that some of the reptile shows where he had planned to be a vendor have cancelled their shows.


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## Poke the Turtle

Just stocked up on supplies, the stores were very empty, lucky, just in time to grab some of the essentials before they were gone. Good luck all, remember, this probably isn’t a big deal as it seems, we WILL get through this. Best of wishes to all of you.


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## Maggie3fan

Yvonne G said:


> Governor of California has ruled that groups larger than 250 people can't meet. That means the school where my daughter works has to serve half the kids their lunch outside and the other half in the cafeteria, as they serve more than 250 kids at a time.
> 
> This doesn't make sense to me. What do they do with the kids in the cafeteria when they're finished with their lunch?
> 
> Will told me that some of the reptile shows where he had planned to be a vendor have cancelled their shows.


Oregon has the same 250 people...I know I'm just a dumb broad...and even tho I am deficient in math...isn't 250 people enough to start and infection...all it takes is one right??? ...Just sayin


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## wellington

Illinois 32 case. Governor cancelled all schools K-12. Crowd limit of 250 no more but not mandated yet.
Cleaning supplies and can goods shelves empty this morning when I went too Target.
People are over reacting and it's ridiculous. Several people that has had the virus has stated it's worse then a cold not as bad as the flu. The shortage of toilet paper is too funny, there is no diarrhea associated with the virus. Only the elderly and those with compromised health need to worry. This has gotten out of hand.


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## smarch

I’m in MA, central so far enough away from Boston where there’s I think over 100 now (I’ve been trying to tune it out) and most of those are linked to one conference. Went to my Walmart close to home, no TP, 2 packs of flushable wet wipes though jammed far back on their shelf, so I got those (we only have 4 rolls left and if this is going to be ongoing I needed to get my hands on some, sometime while I was in the produce section (corned beef and cabbage week!!) they brought out a pallet of TP and hordes pretty much ran to the section, I got there later because I hate people and only got a 6 pack of the quilted stuff, walking through and see people with 3 24 packs of them sheesh, made me mad. Cat food aisle was picked over but not totally empty, picked up a month supply and a big thing of litter because we are nearly empty. Meat was picked over but not totally empty. Definitely no hand sanitizer, alcohol, peroxide, bleach, Lysol, Clorox, dish soap, sponges. I’m just glad I was able to get tortoise food, it’s still too cold to pick any outside.


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## jaizei

Idk about grocery stores but the Taco Bell and Burger King appear to be fully operational, no shortages.


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## Yvonne G

jaizei said:


> Idk about grocery stores but the Taco Bell and Burger King appear to be fully operational, no shortages.


LOL!!! Leave it to you.


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## ZEROPILOT

Dade and Broward county schools closed.
Friggin Disney World closed.
Gas prices hovering around $2.05 a gallon. And lines forming at the gas station here by my house. I suppose that's the whole area now.
The president said in his speech that it's time to fill up your gas tanks. I'm not sure why.


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## ZenHerper

ZEROPILOT said:


> ...
> Friggin Disney World closed.
> ...



I'm guessing the governor put Disney on notice that they will want to commandeer the hotels for mandatory quarantine/hospital overflow.


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## Maggie3fan

Disneyland in LA closed...


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## Blackdog1714

TP secret-bolt on Bidet. Hooks into toilet seat bolts and T’s into the waterline. So much cleaner and easier on your backside. BTW just did a Walmart Neighborhood Market run and got in just after the hoard hit it. Overall 30-40 % empty shelves but were restocking. Got long term basics but no TP or paper towels. Did score a big bottle of hand sanitizer with aloe. 2 were on the shelf and I only took one! Due to HIPPA laws (Hospital privacy) there is under reporting of new cases. An American Airlines pilot was diagnosed- he is based out of Dallas Fort Worth. The issue is that a majority of people that catch the COVID-19 exhibit few to no visible signs of infection and with a quick contagious state it can be spread before person can think to self quarantine. My heart goes out to the 70+ crowd and the multi pre-existing illness people. Here is hoping that people stay calm!


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## ZenHerper

maggie18fan said:


> Disneyland in LA closed...



I'm sure they will, unfortunately, need to contribute their facilities...


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## Srmcclure

Oklahoma is crazy too! Lots of public schools are closed and absolutely no toilet paper...


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## ZenHerper

It's all fun-and-games until you're quarantined without your TP...


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## Maggie3fan

Blackdog1714 said:


> TP secret-bolt on Bidet. Hooks into toilet seat bolts and T’s into the waterline. So much cleaner and easier on your backside. BTW just did a Walmart Neighborhood Market run and got in just after the hoard hit it. Overall 30-40 % empty shelves but were restocking. Got long term basics but no TP or paper towels. Did score a big bottle of hand sanitizer with aloe. 2 were on the shelf and I only took one! Due to HIPPA laws (Hospital privacy) there is under reporting of new cases. An American Airlines pilot was diagnosed- he is based out of Dallas Fort Worth. The issue is that a majority of people that catch the COVID-19 exhibit few to no visible signs of infection and with a quick contagious state it can be spread before person can think to self quarantine. My heart goes out to the 70+ crowd and the multi pre-existing illness people. Here is hoping that people stay calm!


That's me and Yvonne...and I betcha she is doing exactly like me...staying home...no contact...I have chronic illness where Y does not...I don't get a cold, never had flu vaccine but don't get the flu..my worry is that the virus seems to act out as an URTI...I have serious lung disability...so I do worry...but not too much cuz I still think of myself as Lil Suzy Badass...


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## Cathie G

ZEROPILOT said:


> I thought that this might be an interesting venture. Made possible by the fact that we have members from every corner of the world...
> 
> Please report with a description or with photos, the virus situation in your area.
> Here in southeast Florida, we have just a few cases of the virus and no deaths. However, people are fighting over rolls of toilet paper and you are hard pressed to find BLEACH, ALCOHOL, DISINFECTANT WIPES AND SPRAY, TOILET PAPER, PAPER TOWELS, BOTTLED WATER,SURGICAL GLOVES OR MASKS or HAND SANITIZER.
> We're a little used to this happening here to some extent right before a hurricane hits. But that would include BATTERIES, WATER and GASOLINE.
> 
> View attachment 287923


Thank God those crazies don't read this site. It would give them some more bright ideas on what to hoard...no schools are open here for 3 weeks. I'm glad. Maybe all that cleaning will get rid of the super lice and other little buggies too.


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## EllieMay

Pistachio's Pamperer said:


> New Mexico here. Northern part of state. Supposedly "unconfirmed" cases nearby. And supposedly a "confirmed" case just over the state border(about an hour away).
> 
> We have been placed under a no more than a 100 ppl gathering rule, only exception being churches. Thus places like SAMS are doing head counts. There are lines to even go in, once inside, lines to get your allotment of water, paper products, etc. ((IF they have it.))
> 
> As of Monday, schools here are closed for at least 3 weeks. And our local college hasn't yet made a determination as to what they are going to do yet. ((Our college also contains a high school for advanced kids.)) Kids are on spring break here come Monday, so I am assuming the college will make a decision once it is time to go back. Lots of push for computer/online courses, as we are an area where the kids are issued a computer in 1st grade and keep it until graduation. The college also insists all students have a computer. All sports are canceled. All academic meets are canceled. All theater shows canceled.
> 
> I "saw" this crap coming and did my shopping a couple of weeks ago, although I didn't do anything like buy enough for a year or anything. I am glad I did, as I wouldn't even currently step in any stores locally. The people in the house have enough supplies for awhile. As do the pets. This is one of those times when I am glad that I have two fridges, two freezers, and a pantry. Also glad that I grow a lot of Pistachio's food.
> 
> And whether folks like it or not. I checked the cabinets/fridges, but I also checked the ammo situation.
> I am not afraid of the virus, and maybe that is dumb? I am more afraid of how people are reacting.
> 
> -Meg


100% agree.. same situation here


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## Cathie G

maggie18fan said:


> I am a member of 111% here in Oregon...I so believe in owning and open carry guns...But with the run on guns I don't understand...I've been asking...What'cha gonna do Oregon...shoot sick people?


I'm afraid for my developmentally disabled deafmute brother and that's it. He walks around town and might sneeze or something...and get shot because he's different. Hopefully, they'll just try to use a bale of tp to shield themselves.


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## Cathie G

ZenHerper said:


> It's all fun-and-games until you're quarantined without your TP...


Or any kind of alcohol.


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## VegasJeff

Out here in Las Vegas, about half the shelfs are empty in grocery stores. We are missing a lot of the stuff like Paper Products, Rice, Beans, Bottled Water. It was just dry goods but now shortages are starting to creep into fresh foods. No Russell Potatoes when we went to the grocery store today. 

This whole thing seems crazy like I’m living in a war zone or the zombie apocalypse. The only disease traveling faster than the coronavirus right now is mass hysteria it seems.

I feel like I’m gonna have to start hoarding to defend myself against the mass hoarders. I need to order dog food tomorrow as I’m concerned about that running out and I need to see if I can get distilled water from one of those water stores.

I’m also starting to get concerned as my wive is suppose to give birth in about 4 weeks. Scary times to be having a baby if things get worse.


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## smarch

Oh also there was NO pasta (minus red lentil pasta) unless you wanted lasagna noodles, so guess who’s making lasagna now. I was guilty of taking the last bag of rice because I mean things were picked over and you can eat white rice with literally anything and add seasonings and make it a party. I didn’t even check dairy, we had a good bit of milk both cow and almond at home but I hear that’s likely not so easy to get here either. So I bought lots of cereal, good thing I like my cereal dry (yes I know I’m totally weird) I got the last canister of Walmart coffee, though more expensive brands were still available though picked through. Bottled water was pretty much empty but I have water, and my parents have a well and worst case **** hit the fan scenarios zombie apocalypse (which this will never be that bad) is hunker down with them in lockdown, my mum always has supplies and growing up on a farm there’s a second freezer, with like half a cow, and dad has a generator, and a lake to wash in when it’s warm and not still March here in MA, technically if there’s ever a place to live off the grid, they’ve got it under control. I guess that’s why it’s so anxiety inducing for me to not have months of supplies in my small apartment because I was raised as a prepper (not intentionally but we always had enough to get by for a long time if push came to shove)


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## Maggie3fan

smarch said:


> Oh also there was NO pasta (minus red lentil pasta) unless you wanted lasagna noodles, so guess who’s making lasagna now. I was guilty of taking the last bag of rice because I mean things were picked over and you can eat white rice with literally anything and add seasonings and make it a party. I didn’t even check dairy, we had a good bit of milk both cow and almond at home but I hear that’s likely not so easy to get here either. So I bought lots of cereal, good thing I like my cereal dry (yes I know I’m totally weird) I got the last canister of Walmart coffee, though more expensive brands were still available though picked through. Bottled water was pretty much empty but I have water, and my parents have a well and worst case **** hit the fan scenarios zombie apocalypse (which this will never be that bad) is hunker down with them in lockdown, my mum always has supplies and growing up on a farm there’s a second freezer, with like half a cow, and dad has a generator, and a lake to wash in when it’s warm and not still March here in MA, technically if there’s ever a place to live off the grid, they’ve got it under control. I guess that’s why it’s so anxiety inducing for me to not have months of supplies in my small apartment because I was raised as a prepper (not intentionally but we always had enough to get by for a long time if push came to shove)



That's a great story...and it was nice to see your name here...it's been a while...


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## Maggie3fan

VegasJeff said:


> Out here in Las Vegas, about half the shelfs are empty in grocery stores. We are missing a lot of the stuff like Paper Products, Rice, Beans, Bottled Water. It was just dry goods but now shortages are starting to creep into fresh foods. No Russell Potatoes when we went to the grocery store today.
> 
> This whole thing seems crazy like I’m living in a war zone or the zombie apocalypse. The only disease traveling faster than the coronavirus right now is mass hysteria it seems.
> 
> I feel like I’m gonna have to start hoarding to defend myself against the mass hoarders. I need to order dog food tomorrow as I’m concerned about that running out and I need to see if I can get distilled water from one of those water stores.
> 
> I’m also starting to get concerned as my wive is suppo


The baby thing is a worry...that's for sure good luck with that...please keep us posted...


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## Maggie3fan

Oh well hell....I have to go to town today for cat litter...and bird seed...I thought I was staying home for 2 weeks...lasted 2 days as I forgot abt the cats and birds...will dash off to Petsmart and hope it's not too crowded. I'll feel like a ****ing idiot with a face mask on...so will take it with, and see how crowded it is...sure wish I had more money as premium gas is now $2.99......yesterday at 3:30 pm, NASCAR suspended the next 2 races...hell...I refuse to do housework or yard work on my weekends...so...I will watch a Quentin Tarantino movie and mess with all my animals...


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## Yvonne G

My daughter's work place (a grammar school) has just announced it will be closed until the middle of April. Since she works in the cafeteria, which is NOT part of our school district, but a private company, she probably will be without a paycheck for the duration. Clovis, California and Fresno unified school districts are closed until the middle of April.


----------



## ZenHerper

Yvonne G said:


> My daughter's work place (a grammar school) has just announced it will be closed until the middle of April. Since she works in the cafeteria, which is NOT part of our school district, but a private company, she probably will be without a paycheck for the duration. Clovis, California and Fresno unified school districts are closed until the middle of April.



Contract-labor companies should be working with state unemployment offices to confirm temporary lay-offs.



maggie18fan said:


> Oh well hell....I have to go to town today for cat litter...and bird seed...I thought I was staying home for 2 weeks...lasted 2 days as I forgot abt the cats and birds...will dash off to Petsmart and hope it's not too crowded. I'll feel like a ****ing idiot with a face mask on...so will take it with, and see how crowded it is...sure wish I had more money as premium gas is now $2.99......yesterday at 3:30 pm, NASCAR suspended the next 2 races...hell...I refuse to do housework or yard work on my weekends...so...I will watch a Quentin Tarantino movie and mess with all my animals...



Anyone who should avoid public spaces might investigate shop-from-home services or the pick-up-at-store options for retailers. This eliminates or at least minimizes your exposure to large numbers of strangers, and professional shoppers are now being instructed to wear gloves as they work. Look up the food store/box store/retailer you want to use and look for the online shopping option of their website (you may be redirected to an instacart or shipt type of service).

For home delivery services, you can choose to have your purchases left on your doorstep.


----------



## Maggie3fan

ZenHerper said:


> Contract-labor companies should be working with state unemployment offices to confirm temporary lay-offs.
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone who should avoid public spaces might investigate shop-from-home services or the pick-up-at-store options for retailers. This eliminates or at least minimizes your exposure to large numbers of strangers, and professional shoppers are now being instructed to wear gloves as they work. Look up the food store/box store/retailer you want to use and look for the online shopping option of their website (you may be redirected to an instacart or shipt type of service).
> 
> For home delivery services, you can choose to have your purchases left on your doorstep.


That's very good advice...but some of us seniors are not really modern...my cell phone is probably 10 years old...no apps nothing like that...I wouldn't know how to order uber, or home delivery...hell...I don't even order pizza delivery... go get it instead...


----------



## Toddrickfl1

My bother is the Nursing director at a local hospital here. He was called in about a week ago and has been there since. My mom finally talked with him last night and asked what's going on with him. He told her he really can't talk about it but that we shouldn't panic but do take this seriously.


----------



## ZenHerper

maggie18fan said:


> That's very good advice...but some of us seniors are not really modern...my cell phone is probably 10 years old...no apps nothing like that...I wouldn't know how to order uber, or home delivery...hell...I don't even order pizza delivery... go get it instead...



Petsmart does pick-up-at-store for in-stock products. You will need to find your items, choose the pick up at store option, confirm your local store location, and set up a customer account:









Kitty Litter: Best Cat Litter Brands | PetSmart


Find top litter brands for cats and kittens. Keep your home fresh with clumping, crystal, flushable, or natural high-quality litter in a wide range of scents and textures.




www.petsmart.com


----------



## Bee62

Germany report:

- all schools and play schools are closed up to the 18. of April
- rest homes are closed for visitors, hospitals too
- all public events are cancelled, theatres are closed
- Poland, Szech republic, Denmark and maybe other countries have closed their borders for visitors.
- Supermarkets in Germany ran out of toilet paper and paper towels, milk, bottled water, noodles and rice. 
- Bread an meat is still available but some canned food is short. Food for cats and dogs is enough in store. Vegetables, fruits and lettuce too.
- You can`t buy any masks, gloves or disinfectans, or when to a price that is not normal.
- people can`t buy guns ( you know in Germany you need a gun license to buy, to have or to wear a gun ) but I am sure people would when they could

It is crazy here too. I have no fear to get this virus but I have fear what will happen when the panic of people increases more and more .... Nightmares of closed super markets, drugstores and other stores. Closed gas stations because they have no more gas to sell.... And the biggest fear is of people who are scared and think they have to fight for their own survivel ....Maybe I`ve seen too much seasons of "The walking dead" and "Fear the walking dead" but I love these series.?
The "nice" side of the virus is that the gas is cheap here too but why ??? I thought when borders are closed and transportations become more difficult the price will get higher ! Maybe this will be the next step. That`s why yesterday I filled the gas tank of my car now ... and I bought more canned food, milk, bread and dog and cat food too. Got some more toilet paper and other paper rolls too. Luckily it is still a little bit cold outside so that the lettuce that I bought in store for my torts maybe stays fresh for a week. 
Maybe it is a good idea to have the next weeks all what you need in the house and staying away from people. Waiting for the worst but expecting the best.... or was it the other way round ??
When you know me a little you will know that I am only half seriously writing.  I really have no fear to get sick and I give my torts, dogs and cats a hug and a kiss like before the damn virus crossed my life !?


----------



## Maggie3fan

Bee62 said:


> Germany report:
> 
> - all schools and play schools are closed up to the 18. of April
> - rest homes are closed for visitors, hospitals too
> - all public events are cancelled, theatres are closed
> - Poland, Szech republic, Denmark and maybe other countries have closed their borders for visitors.
> - Supermarkets in Germany ran out of toilet paper and paper towels, milk, bottled water, noodles and rice.
> - Bread an meat is still available but some canned food is short. Food for cats and dogs is enough in store. Vegetables, fruits and lettuce too.
> - You can`t buy any masks, gloves or disinfectans, or when to a price that is not normal.
> - people can`t buy guns ( you know in Germany you need a gun license to buy, to have or to wear a gun ) but I am sure people would when they could
> 
> It is crazy here too. I have no fear to get this virus but I have fear what will happen when the panic of people increases more and more .... Nightmares of closed super markets, drugstores and other stores. Closed gas stations because they have no more gas to sell.... And the biggest fear is of people who are scared and think they have to fight for their own survivel ....Maybe I`ve seen too much seasons of "The walking dead" and "Fear the walking dead" but I love these series.?
> The "nice" side of the virus is that the gas is cheap here too but why ??? I thought when borders are closed and transportations become more difficult the price will get higher ! Maybe this will be the next step. That`s why yesterday I filled the gas tank of my car now ... and I bought more canned food, milk, bread and dog and cat food too. Got some more toilet paper and other paper rolls too. Luckily it is still a little bit cold outside so that the lettuce that I bought in store for my torts maybe stays fresh for a week.
> Maybe it is a good idea to have the next weeks all what you need in the house and staying away from people. Waiting for the worst but expecting the best.... or was it the other way round ??
> When you know me a little you will know that I am only half seriously writing.  I really have no fear to get sick and I give my torts, dogs and cats a hug and a kiss like before the damn virus crossed my life !?



I feel exactly that way also...But...what about those of us who scorned this virus trouble and didn't stock up on certain things and now have no money to do it. I did stock up on Stoffers frozen meals cuz I am the worlds worse cook, I have munchies and soda...but I forgot my animals...so will venture into town today with trepidation...I need cat t-paper (they call it litter)...and bird seed...I feel those will be there are Petsmart...with the bird seed...but I need bread also and today is the day I get tortoise food for Safeway that they have save for me...I don't want to go to the Safeway...but I'm hoping Petsmart will not be like the other places...naive


----------



## Markw84

Bee62 said:


> Germany report:
> 
> ....Maybe I`ve seen too much seasons of "The walking dead" and "Fear the walking dead" but I love these series.?




ON a completely lighter and side note because of your comment-

Did you know "Dog" on walking dead is @Tom 's dog he handles and is also his personal pet dog?


----------



## vladimir

Markw84 said:


> ON a completely lighter and side note because of your comment-
> 
> Did you know "Dog" on walking dead is @Tom 's dog he handles and is also his personal pet dog?



I did not know that!


----------



## Tom




----------



## Maro2Bear

Bee62 said:


> Germany report:
> 
> - all schools and play schools are closed up to the 18. of April
> - rest homes are closed for visitors, hospitals too
> - all public events are cancelled, theatres are closed
> - Poland, Szech republic, Denmark and maybe other countries have closed their borders for visitors.
> - Supermarkets in Germany ran out of toilet paper and paper towels, milk, bottled water, noodles and rice.
> - Bread an meat is still available but some canned food is short. Food for cats and dogs is enough in store. Vegetables, fruits and lettuce too.
> - You can`t buy any masks, gloves or disinfectans, or when to a price that is not normal.
> - people can`t buy guns ( you know in Germany you need a gun license to buy, to have or to wear a gun ) but I am sure people would when they could
> 
> It is crazy here too. I have no fear to get this virus but I have fear what will happen when the panic of people increases more and more .... Nightmares of closed super markets, drugstores and other stores. Closed gas stations because they have no more gas to sell.... And the biggest fear is of people who are scared and think they have to fight for their own survivel ....Maybe I`ve seen too much seasons of "The walking dead" and "Fear the walking dead" but I love these series.?
> The "nice" side of the virus is that the gas is cheap here too but why ??? I thought when borders are closed and transportations become more difficult the price will get higher ! Maybe this will be the next step. That`s why yesterday I filled the gas tank of my car now ... and I bought more canned food, milk, bread and dog and cat food too. Got some more toilet paper and other paper rolls too. Luckily it is still a little bit cold outside so that the lettuce that I bought in store for my torts maybe stays fresh for a week.
> Maybe it is a good idea to have the next weeks all what you need in the house and staying away from people. Waiting for the worst but expecting the best.... or was it the other way round ??
> When you know me a little you will know that I am only half seriously writing.  I really have no fear to get sick and I give my torts, dogs and cats a hug and a kiss like before the damn virus crossed my life !?




Gas very cheap here. Filled up at our Sams Club for $1.96 per gallon yesterday.

Why is petrol cheap you ask? https://www.npr.org/2020/03/13/8152...ine-pandemic-and-geopolitics-send-prices-down


----------



## Tom

Some perspective:
22,000 = number of flu deaths for this season in the US.
55 = number of corona virus deaths in the US so far, with around 2,500 confirmed cases.


----------



## KronksMom

That's so cool Tom! He's so handsome!


----------



## Tom

Maro2Bear said:


> Gas very cheap here. Filled up at our Sams Club for $1.96 per gallon yesterday.
> 
> Why is petrol cheap you ask? https://www.npr.org/2020/03/13/8152...ine-pandemic-and-geopolitics-send-prices-down


I just saw gas for $2.99 here today. I can't remember that last time it was under $3 here. It been years.


----------



## Maro2Bear

Tom said:


> View attachment 288060



Hey @Tom ... are you also responsible for handling “Eddie” the lil pooch on the sitcom Frasier? Well trained...

Nice work all around.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Tom said:


> Some perspective:
> 22,000 = number of flu deaths for this season in the US.
> 55 = number of corona virus deaths in the US so far, with around 2,500 confirmed cases.


This "crisis" reaction doesn't match the facts.
That's for sure


----------



## jaizei

Tom said:


> Some perspective:
> 22,000 = number of flu deaths for this season in the US.
> 55 = number of corona virus deaths in the US so far, with around 2,500 confirmed cases.



22,000 out of 36,000,000+ = .06%

55 out of 2500 = 2.2%

2.2% of 36,000,000 is 792,000

Perspective is good. Now you can see why some countries are taking such drastic measures to slow the spread or flatten the curve.


----------



## Maro2Bear

ZEROPILOT said:


> This "crisis" reaction doesn't match the facts.
> That's for sure



Until you look at deaths in both Iran and Italy.


----------



## ZenHerper

Maro2Bear said:


> Until you look at deaths in both Iran and Italy.



Exactly. The worldwide death rate is closer to 3.5%. And the whole world has not been exposed to a detectable degree yet.

If influenza were being managed in the same way, its death rate would be far lower. But people just in the U.S. won't take the (often free) vaccine, and won't stay home when they are sick, and don't keep their kids home (there are a lot of good rationalizations for these choices that our culture has not bothered to examine and address) and the virus flourishes.

Personally, I would very much like the 3.5% of my community that is at risk for death to, you know, not die. Or get sick at all, if possible.


----------



## Cathie G

Yvonne G said:


> My daughter's work place (a grammar school) has just announced it will be closed until the middle of April. Since she works in the cafeteria, which is NOT part of our school district, but a private company, she probably will be without a paycheck for the duration. Clovis, California and Fresno unified school districts are closed until the middle of April.


Here a lot of the schools are going to hand out lunch and breakfast box meals like a drive thru for anyone. I'm just saying since your daughter works in the cafeteria she could end up having a job anyway. My sister in law's family lives in California and her sister works in the school system there. She said that California is starting that kind of stuff too.


----------



## Toddrickfl1

Cathie G said:


> Here a lot of the schools are going to hand out lunch and breakfast box meals like a drive thru for anyone. I'm just saying since your daughter works in the cafeteria she could end up having a job anyway. My sister in law's family lives in California and her sister works in the school system there. She said that California is starting that kind of stuff too.


Same here schools are closed but the buses are running to the bus stops and delivering lunches to any children that need one.


----------



## ZenHerper

Toddrickfl1 said:


> Same here schools are closed but the buses are running to the bus stops and delivering lunches to any children that need one.



That is a damned clever way to manage things!


----------



## Cathie G

Bee62 said:


> Germany report:
> 
> - all schools and play schools are closed up to the 18. of April
> - rest homes are closed for visitors, hospitals too
> - all public events are cancelled, theatres are closed
> - Poland, Szech republic, Denmark and maybe other countries have closed their borders for visitors.
> - Supermarkets in Germany ran out of toilet paper and paper towels, milk, bottled water, noodles and rice.
> - Bread an meat is still available but some canned food is short. Food for cats and dogs is enough in store. Vegetables, fruits and lettuce too.
> - You can`t buy any masks, gloves or disinfectans, or when to a price that is not normal.
> - people can`t buy guns ( you know in Germany you need a gun license to buy, to have or to wear a gun ) but I am sure people would when they could
> 
> It is crazy here too. I have no fear to get this virus but I have fear what will happen when the panic of people increases more and more .... Nightmares of closed super markets, drugstores and other stores. Closed gas stations because they have no more gas to sell.... And the biggest fear is of people who are scared and think they have to fight for their own survivel ....Maybe I`ve seen too much seasons of "The walking dead" and "Fear the walking dead" but I love these series.?
> The "nice" side of the virus is that the gas is cheap here too but why ??? I thought when borders are closed and transportations become more difficult the price will get higher ! Maybe this will be the next step. That`s why yesterday I filled the gas tank of my car now ... and I bought more canned food, milk, bread and dog and cat food too. Got some more toilet paper and other paper rolls too. Luckily it is still a little bit cold outside so that the lettuce that I bought in store for my torts maybe stays fresh for a week.
> Maybe it is a good idea to have the next weeks all what you need in the house and staying away from people. Waiting for the worst but expecting the best.... or was it the other way round ??
> When you know me a little you will know that I am only half seriously writing.  I really have no fear to get sick and I give my torts, dogs and cats a hug and a kiss like before the damn virus crossed my life !?


Yep?


----------



## Cathie G

jaizei said:


> 22,000 out of 36,000,000+ = .06%
> 
> 55 out of 2500 = 2.2%
> 
> 2.2% of 36,000,000 is 792,000
> 
> Perspective is good. Now you can see why some countries are taking such drastic measures to slow the spread or flatten the curve.


Another part of the perspective is how many people have gotten over it with only minor issues that weren't even tested. I'm high risk so in some ways I'm glad they're doing all this. But I'm also high risk if I get the flue and they don't take these measures for that. My only hope is that something good will come out of all this. In other words let people stay home when they are sick. I'm very sure there's way more people in our country that have it because they've only recently started testing for it.


----------



## Cathie G

W


Toddrickfl1 said:


> Same here schools are closed but the buses are running to the bus stops and delivering lunches to any children that need one.


It looks like relief for this is slowly being implemented as they figure out the way to accomplish it.


----------



## smarch

maggie18fan said:


> That's a great story...and it was nice to see your name here...it's been a while...


I’m on vacation as of Friday, and by vacation I mean I had until the end of this month to use my 2019 vacation and still had a week, so I’m just hanging out at home doing some spring cleaning (yeah real convenient trying to do a nice thorough cleaning when the end of the world is happening and you can’t buy cleaning supplies) I’m also here because there’s too much plague talk and it’s given me anxiety and I need distraction (yet here I am talking about that which I’m trying to avoid) since my job is traveling business to business caring for their plants you can imagine how well that’s been going, places closing, colleges sending kids home not to return after break, assisted living straight up won’t even unlock the door for me (and I can’t blame them, I’m young and don’t have to worry if I caught something, aside from the fact that the beginning can be lacking in symptoms and can spread then, and the last thing I want is to be the one responsible for causing an outbreak there). I don’t know what kind of job I will have to go back to and that’s what worry’s me the most. So here I am distracting myself with friends I haven’t seen in quite some time.


----------



## Yvonne G

Ok, here's what I don't understand - back in the '40s when my mom contracted polio we were quarantined in our house. They put a big red sign on our front door. We were told DO NOT GO OUTSIDE. DO NOT OPEN YOUR WINDOWS!!!!

So on TV news last night they showed film of quarantined folks in Italy hanging out their windows, singing their national anthem, the houses directly next to each other, unseen germs flowing out their mouths all over the neighborhood. What the heck???


----------



## jaizei

Cathie G said:


> Another part of the perspective is how many people have gotten over it with only minor issues that weren't even tested. I'm high risk so in some ways I'm glad they're doing all this. But I'm also high risk if I get the flue and they don't take these measures for that. My only hope is that something good will come out of all this. In other words let people stay home when they are sick. I'm very sure there's way more people in our country that have it because they've only recently started testing for it.



Because of the lag in testing, the actual number of cases is probably at least 10x, if not much more (100x). It spread in the US basically undetected. Thats one reason downplaying the risk is so dangerous. It spreads without serious harm thru most people, and reaches the more vulnerable people. And why people are panicking now. How will people react in the next weeks if the US jumps from ~3k to 10k+ or more confirmed cases. Plan early or panic later.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

My wife still works for our local county school district.
(I'm retured)
Our county has guaranteed that any employee that misses work over school closures, etc. Will be compensated fully.
I'm assuming that it would be the policy if most public schools to offer their employees.
At least initially.
Making such guarantees for months and months seems unlikely.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

jaizei said:


> Because of the lag in testing, the actual number of cases is probably at least 10x, if not much more (100x). It spread in the US basically undetected. Thats one reason downplaying the risk is so dangerous. It spreads without serious harm thru most people, and reaches the more vulnerable people. And why people are panicking now. How will people react in the next weeks if the US jumps from ~3k to 10k+ or more confirmed cases. Plan early or panic later.


Exactly
It will be interesting to see how this makeshift journal progresses


----------



## ZEROPILOT

I'm already concerned about "mom and pop" local business, etc.
My wife and I go to the same SUSHI restaurant almost every Saturday. We always try to get there right as it opens because it is extremely popular and the booth seating fills up right away.
Today, we got there over 20 minutes later than usual....
Almost no cars in the lot and we had the place almost to ourselves.
How long can restaurants and other places deal with this?


----------



## Tom

Maro2Bear said:


> Hey @Tom ... are you also responsible for handling “Eddie” the lil pooch on the sitcom Frasier? Well trained...
> 
> Nice work all around.


No. That was my friend from another company. I just worked with her this last week on "SWAT".


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Not only are schools closed. But now all non essential school board employees are off next week.
I'm not sure why it's just next week. Or if this plan will change as needed.
The Walmart food market had lots of food and bread. And there was an almost organized line of people clamoring for a package of toilet paper from a just arrived shipment.
I've given away to my neighbors or dumped into my vehicles all of my left over hurricane gasoline reserve from the uneventful 2019 season.And have filled up my tanks with fresh fuel. If not needed for this crisis, itll simply become hurricane gasoline for the 2020 season. (For the generator)
I placed stabilizer in it. So it's good for a year.
Gas stations are clear and have no lines.
I still know no one that is sick in my circle of friends and family.
I hope everyone else is also well.


----------



## Bee62

Markw84 said:


> ON a completely lighter and side note because of your comment-
> 
> Did you know "Dog" on walking dead is @Tom 's dog he handles and is also his personal pet dog?


Wow, Mark, I didn`t know that this dog is Toms dog ! Great ! Boah, I am impressed. Thank you for the information. When I watch the next series of "The walking dead" I will watch if I can read Toms name as the "dog handler" in the credits.


----------



## Blackdog1714

ZEROPILOT said:


> Not only are schools closed. But now all non essential school board employees are off next week.
> I'm not sure why it's just next week. Or if this plan will change as needed.
> The Walmart food market had lots of food and bread. And there was an almost organized line of people clamoring for a package of toilet paper from a just arrived shipment.
> I've given away to my neighbors or dumped into my vehicles all of my left over hurricane gasoline reserve from the uneventful 2019 season.And have filled up my tanks with fresh fuel. If not needed for this crisis, itll simply become hurricane gasoline for the 2020 season. (For the generator)
> I placed stabilizer in it. So it's good for a year.
> Gas stations are clear and have no lines.
> I still know no one that is sick in my circle of friends and family.
> I hope everyone else is also well.


Yeah smartm I will refresh my hurricane gas too! Thanks for reminding me.


----------



## smarch

This year it isn’t going to be blizzard babies we have an influx of in Dec. ?


----------



## Bee62

Maro2Bear said:


> Gas very cheap here. Filled up at our Sams Club for $1.96 per gallon yesterday.
> 
> Why is petrol cheap you ask? https://www.npr.org/2020/03/13/8152...ine-pandemic-and-geopolitics-send-prices-down


Thank you for the link ! Now I understand.


----------



## ZenHerper

A lot or retailers are changing their hours of operation so that they can get trucks unloaded and shelves reorganized.

Check before shopping, especially if you prefer super-early or super-late hours.

And, for the love of Chelonia,take a few seconds to sincerely *thank* the people who are running themselves ragged to keep the whole thing moving forward.


----------



## Cathie G

smarch said:


> I’m on vacation as of Friday, and by vacation I mean I had until the end of this month to use my 2019 vacation and still had a week, so I’m just hanging out at home doing some spring cleaning (yeah real convenient trying to do a nice thorough cleaning when the end of the world is happening and you can’t buy cleaning supplies) I’m also here because there’s too much plague talk and it’s given me anxiety and I need distraction (yet here I am talking about that which I’m trying to avoid) since my job is traveling business to business caring for their plants you can imagine how well that’s been going, places closing, colleges sending kids home not to return after break, assisted living straight up won’t even unlock the door for me (and I can’t blame them, I’m young and don’t have to worry if I caught something, aside from the fact that the beginning can be lacking in symptoms and can spread then, and the last thing I want is to be the one responsible for causing an outbreak there). I don’t know what kind of job I will have to go back to and that’s what worry’s me the most. So here I am distracting myself with friends I haven’t seen in quite some time.


Hello. Glad to meet you. I'm new so I'm sure I missed you...?


----------



## Cathie G

smarch said:


> This year it isn’t going to be blizzard babies we have an influx of in Dec. ?


Yeah!!!!##


----------



## Cathie G

Bee62 said:


> Wow, Mark, I didn`t know that this dog is Toms dog ! Great ! Boah, I am impressed. Thank you for the information. When I watch the next series of "The walking dead" I will watch if I can read Toms name as the "dog handler" in the credits.


I thought it was pretty neat too. He's our Tom first though as well you know.


----------



## Tom

Maro2Bear said:


> Gas very cheap here. Filled up at our Sams Club for $1.96 per gallon yesterday.
> 
> Why is petrol cheap you ask? https://www.npr.org/2020/03/13/8152...ine-pandemic-and-geopolitics-send-prices-down


Mark, I just read this. It doesn't make any sense to me, economically speaking. Yes they are making less, but they are also paying less.

Example: If I'm buying tortoises at wholesale for $100 each and I need to make $50 per tortoise to pay all my expenses and turn a profit, then I charge $150. If the wholesale price of those tortoises suddenly drops to $50, then I'm able to sell them to my customers for $100 instead of $150, and I still turn the exact same profit per tortoise, while spending half as much up front. I'm not losing money at all.

If the price of Saudi and Russian crude drops, this just means that the gasoline companies can charge less, but they will still recoup their costs for transportation, storage, and refining all that crude, and still add on enough to make a profit. Why would they be taking a loss? They should be turning the same profit margin with less cash outlay at the beginning of the process.

For any business, having a drop in the price of source materials does not mean a lower profit. What am I not grasping here?


----------



## Cathie G

jaizei said:


> Because of the lag in testing, the actual number of cases is probably at least 10x, if not much more (100x). It spread in the US basically undetected. Thats one reason downplaying the risk is so dangerous. It spreads without serious harm thru most people, and reaches the more vulnerable people. And why people are panicking now. How will people react in the next weeks if the US jumps from ~3k to 10k+ or more confirmed cases. Plan early or panic later.


That's the only thing that scares me. How people are reacting. I wash my hands constantly everyday...day in day out. I play with people and animals sooo...


----------



## Cathie G

Yvonne G said:


> Ok, here's what I don't understand - back in the '40s when my mom contracted polio we were quarantined in our house. They put a big red sign on our front door. We were told DO NOT GO OUTSIDE. DO NOT OPEN YOUR WINDOWS!!!!
> 
> So on TV news last night they showed film of quarantined folks in Italy hanging out their windows, singing their national anthem, the houses directly next to each other, unseen germs flowing out their mouths all over the neighborhood. What the heck???


Yes. Exactly.


----------



## Markw84

Tom said:


> Mark, I just read this. It doesn't make any sense to me, economically speaking. Yes they are making less, but they are also paying less.
> 
> Example: If I'm buying tortoises at wholesale for $100 each and I need to make $50 per tortoise to pay all my expenses and turn a profit, then I charge $150. If the wholesale price of those tortoises suddenly drops to $50, then I'm able to sell them to my customers for $100 instead of $150, and I still turn the exact same profit per tortoise, while spending half as much up front. I'm not losing money at all.
> 
> If the price of Saudi and Russian crude drops, this just means that the gasoline companies can charge less, but they will still recoup their costs for transportation, storage, and refining all that crude, and still add on enough to make a profit. Why would they be taking a loss? They should be turning the same profit margin with less cash outlay at the beginning of the process.
> 
> For any business, having a drop in the price of source materials does not mean a lower profit. What am I not grasping here?



I know you are responding to the other Mark, but I had to chime in here...

The losses referred to are for the oil companies that themselves have to compete with the cost of oil from Saudi and Russia with their own crude oil production. It is not the retailer of gasoline. Far less than 1/2 the crude oil we use in the US is imported. So the bulk of our gas is coming from oil produced in the US. As the price of crude drops worldwide, the cost of gasoline drops. So, if the wholesale price of gasoline to the gas retailer is $2.00 arbitrarily, let's say the cost of the crude to make that gasoline is $1. If the price of crude drops to where the cost of imported crude would be now $.50 to make that gallon of gasoline, the US oil companies are now only getting the equivalent of $.50 in the price they charge for gas from the crude they are producing.

So with your example, it is not the comparison of the cost of tortoises you are buying at wholesale, but the ones you produce yourself. If you sell tortoises for $150 because the going wholesale price of tortoise is $100, and the wholesale price (going price) of tortoises drops to $50, you now do sell the tortoises for $100 but you are getting $50 less for the tortoises you produce yourself over what you used to get. Your business is getting $50 less for the production and sale of a tortoise.


----------



## mark1

Tom said:


> Mark, I just read this. It doesn't make any sense to me, economically speaking. Yes they are making less, but they are also paying less.
> 
> Example: If I'm buying tortoises at wholesale for $100 each and I need to make $50 per tortoise to pay all my expenses and turn a profit, then I charge $150. If the wholesale price of those tortoises suddenly drops to $50, then I'm able to sell them to my customers for $100 instead of $150, and I still turn the exact same profit per tortoise, while spending half as much up front. I'm not losing money at all.
> 
> If the price of Saudi and Russian crude drops, this just means that the gasoline companies can charge less, but they will still recoup their costs for transportation, storage, and refining all that crude, and still add on enough to make a profit. Why would they be taking a loss? They should be turning the same profit margin with less cash outlay at the beginning of the process.
> 
> For any business, having a drop in the price of source materials does not mean a lower profit. What am I not grasping here?


 you need to go back to the supplier , in your example , the tortoise supplier …….if he makes 25$ on every 100$ tortoise he sells after costs , when he sells them for 50$ he's losing 25$ per tortoise …….... the cost of getting the oil and refining it is set , it doesn't fluctuate much ………


----------



## Tom

Markw84 said:


> I know you are responding to the other Mark, but I had to chime in here...
> 
> The losses referred to are for the oil companies that themselves have to compete with the cost of oil from Saudi and Russia with their own crude oil production. It is not the retailer of gasoline. Far less than 1/2 the crude oil we use in the US is imported. So the bulk of our gas is coming from oil produced in the US. As the price of crude drops worldwide, the cost of gasoline drops. So, if the wholesale price of gasoline to the gas retailer is $2.00 arbitrarily, let's say the cost of the crude to make that gasoline is $1. If the price of crude drops to where the cost of imported crude would be now $.50 to make that gallon of gasoline, the US oil companies are now only getting the equivalent of $.50 in the price they charge for gas from the crude they are producing.
> 
> So with your example, it is not the comparison of the cost of tortoises you are buying at wholesale, but the ones you produce yourself. If you sell tortoises for $150 because the going wholesale price of tortoise is $100, and the wholesale price (going price) of tortoises drops to $50, you now do sell the tortoises for $100 but you are getting $50 less for the tortoises you produce yourself over what you used to get. Your business is getting $50 less for the production and sale of a tortoise.


This makes sense. More like buying domestically produced tortoises at one price, while the imports are coming in at a cut rate. Domestic producers will lose money if they want to remain competitive. In fact, this is exactly how it happens with tarantulas, I recently learned. No incentive to domestically produce babies because they come in so cheap from over seas. I had trouble moving my green bottle blue babies, which normally sell for $80 retail, when I was trying to sell them at a wholesale rate of $20. Several people told me they could get them for $7 from over seas. I then asked how easy that was nowadays, what it cost to import them when all was said and done, what the mortality rates were, and why they didn't have any of those super cheap spiders to sell in their booth. They didn't like that much...


----------



## smarch

Cathie G said:


> Hello. Glad to meet you. I'm new so I'm sure I missed you...?


Yeah I was more active around 2014-ish and when I started my last job in 2015 I got too busy to really remember to check in often.


----------



## Blackdog1714

It i


Tom said:


> This makes sense. More like buying domestically produced tortoises at one price, while the imports are coming in at a cut rate. Domestic producers will lose money if they want to remain competitive. In fact, this is exactly how it happens with tarantulas, I recently learned. No incentive to domestically produce babies because they come in so cheap from over seas. I had trouble moving my green bottle blue babies, which normally sell for $80 retail, when I was trying to sell them at a wholesale rate of $20. Several people told me they could get them for $7 from over seas. I then asked how easy that was nowadays, what it cost to import them when all was said and done, what the mortality rates were, and why they didn't have any of those super cheap spiders to sell in their booth. They didn't like that much...


It is a rule of big business! The best business is one that can bully others! Just imagine if you really focused and increased your tarantula production 10x’s what it currently does. Then you sell at $6 so everyone wants yours and no one buys the others thus freezing them out of the market! By you focusing on profits ten years from now you can focus on covering your expansion costs now. Then in 10 years you ask $40 a tarantula and they pay since you are their only supplier! Just add me to your will! ?


----------



## Tom

Blackdog1714 said:


> It i
> 
> It is a rule of big business! The best business is one that can bully others! Just imagine if you really focused and increased your tarantula production 10x’s what it currently does. Then you sell at $6 so everyone wants yours and no one buys the others thus freezing them out of the market! By you focusing on profits ten years from now you can focus on covering your expansion costs now. Then in 10 years you ask $40 a tarantula and they pay since you are their only supplier! Just add me to your will! ?


One problem.

Who is going to feed 18,200 baby tarantulas twice a week for months on end?


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Tom said:


> One problem.
> 
> Who is going to feed 18,200 baby tarantulas twice a week for months on end?


Did you ask Siri?


----------



## Tom

ZEROPILOT said:


> Did you ask Siri?


She found an exterminator website for me on the web.


----------



## Blackdog1714

Tom said:


> One problem.
> 
> Who is going to feed 18,200 baby tarantulas twice a week for months on end?


So you corner the market on their food too! you could be a Tycoon of the weird and creepy things!


----------



## Tom

Blackdog1714 said:


> So you corner the market on their food too! you could be a Tycoon of the weird and creepy things!


The food isn't the problem, its the time. If you get a good system going you can feed and water about 100 baby spiders an hour. I'll let you do the math on 18,000+.


----------



## Toddrickfl1

I've actually been feeling pretty sick since yesterday. Went to the doctor this morning and lucky me it's not Corona, but tested positive for the flu!


----------



## ZenHerper

Toddrickfl1 said:


> I've actually been feeling pretty sick since yesterday. Went to the doctor this morning and lucky me it's not Corona, but tested positive for the flu!



Congratulations...?

But seriously, take care of you.

((Hugs))


----------



## Yvonne G

My daughter is a cafeteria worker at a "title school." This means the school serves low income families and the kids get free breakfast and lunch. The schools are now closed until mid April, but they will still serve breakfast and lunch. The kids eat then go back home. So my daughter will still be getting a paycheck. I think if I were one of those parents I'd think of some other way to feed my kids rather than send them to school to possibly be exposed to the dreaded GERM!


----------



## Blackdog1714

Just found out that a coworker was exposed back on March 5th, 2020. I have been in close proximaty (Car rides, meeteings) numerous times since that date. She presented sick on Friday and described it as her usual spring crud which I have witness numerous times over the years sooo didn't think a thing about it. UNtil the email went out today and well she is going to get tested. Fingers crossed my allergies are just that, I could stand to lose a few pounds, but thanks to my wife I have more days a week with exercise than without. Saturday she had me playing doubles for 4 hours


----------



## Yvonne G

Blackdog1714 said:


> Just found out that a coworker was exposed back on March 5th, 2020. I have been in close proximaty (Car rides, meeteings) numerous times since that date. She presented sick on Friday and described it as her usual spring crud which I have witness numerous times over the years sooo didn't think a thing about it. UNtil the email went out today and well she is going to get tested. Fingers crossed my allergies are just that, I could stand to lose a few pounds, but thanks to my wife I have more days a week with exercise than without. Saturday she had me playing doubles for 4 hours


This is what I don't understand: Every time you watch "The Prez" giving a news conference the reporters always ask if he's going to be tested. The part I don't understand is how does a test tell you if you have a bug if you don't have a fever yet? How can they test a perfectly normal feeling person when he's not showing any symptoms and still get a good result from the test?


----------



## Markw84

Yvonne G said:


> This is what I don't understand: Every time you watch "The Prez" giving a news conference the reporters always ask if he's going to be tested. The part I don't understand is how does a test tell you if you have a bug if you don't have a fever yet? How can they test a perfectly normal feeling person when he's not showing any symptoms and still get a good result from the test?


The test determines whether the virus is present in your system. If you've been exposed and do get sick, it can take a few days to over a week for you to actually start showing symptoms, but the virus is in your system trying to multiply. You could actually have the virus in your system and never get sick as you body was successful in fighting it off. In that case the test would still show you are positive when the virus is in your system


----------



## Blackdog1714

That's what makes this bug so pesky! Unless you are immuno comprimised our have heart/lung issues you may never present with symptoms especially when you are contagious!!! What a bad bug!


----------



## Maro2Bear

Yvonne G said:


> This is what I don't understand: Every time you watch "The Prez" giving a news conference the reporters always ask if he's going to be tested. The part I don't understand is how does a test tell you if you have a bug if you don't have a fever yet? How can they test a perfectly normal feeling person when he's not showing any symptoms and still get a good result from the test?



Which is why, with low testing we have few ppl with corona. The more tests that become readily available and given, the more positive Corona viruses we will see. Numbers of infected ppl will rise as testing increases.


----------



## Blackdog1714

This was my cart last Thursday. I figured **** would hit the fan sooo.


----------



## Rex1718

Yeah things are getting crazy in South Carolina. I seen it coming and stocked up on food and pet feeds. Our house is normally well stocked, but didn’t want to run out of dog food etc. 
It’s funny every body had a buggy full of TP, and here I am with 300 rounds of 357 bullets, lol. I take the virus seriously, but more worried about people in a panic


----------



## Maggie3fan

Rex1718 said:


> Yeah things are getting crazy in South Carolina. I seen it coming and stocked up on food and pet feeds. Our house is normally well stocked, but didn’t want to run out of dog food etc.
> It’s funny every body had a buggy full of TP, and here I am with 300 rounds of 357 bullets, lol. I take the virus seriously, but more worried about people in a panic


I am totally freaked out by the panic...empty shelves now...just what will be avaliable to me Friday when I have money...this is just what I think about the whole thing...scared ...and...


----------



## Rex1718

maggie18fan said:


> I am totally freaked out by the panic...empty shelves now...just what will be avaliable to me Friday when I have money...this is just what I think about the whole thing...scared ...and...
> View attachment 288235


Yeah the mass panic worries me the most


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Maro2Bear said:


> Which is why, with low testing we have few ppl with corona. The more tests that become readily available and given, the more positive Corona viruses we will see. Numbers of infected ppl will rise as testing increases.


I strongly assume that the number of actually infected are much higher than we now know due to the little symptoms that some of us will get.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

maggie18fan said:


> I am totally freaked out by the panic...empty shelves now...just what will be avaliable to me Friday when I have money...this is just what I think about the whole thing...scared ...and...
> View attachment 288235


The grocery shelves are still full of actual food.
Just not the products already mentioned.
I've also still been able to get pet food and insects.
The issues might be when and if the stores close and everything is by delivery only.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

I wonder if we've had a TFO member with the virus yet. I mean, statistically we should have..
How long do the symptoms present?. If you get ill... How long does it last?
Not a lot has been said officially.


----------



## Toddrickfl1

Blackdog1714 said:


> This was my cart last Thursday. I figured **** would hit the fan sooo.


Can't forget the Crunch and Munch!


ZEROPILOT said:


> I strongly assume that the number of actually infected are much higher than we now know due to the little symptoms that some of us will get.


I honestly think it's been spreading here already for a few months and we just weren't aware of it. Some people could of already had it and not even know.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Toddrickfl1 said:


> Can't forget the Crunch and
> 
> I honestly think it's been spreading here already for a few months and we just weren't aware of it. Some people could of already had it and not even know.


That's my thought too.
I know a few people that were really sick a month or so ago.
I still have a scratchy throat and itchy, runny eyes. (And no known allergies)


----------



## ZenHerper

Epidemiologists have said officially, but it has been largely shouted down by rhetoric.

Based on the MERS outbreak, incubation is estimated from 2-14 days.









Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) – Symptoms


Self-Checker is a guide to make decisions on when to get testing.




www.cdc.gov





Recovery varies, depending on strength of immune response, and susceptibility to co-infective agents.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Rex1718 said:


> Yeah the mass panic worries me the most


It's always the UNKNOWN that's the worst.
I liken it to waiting for a hurricane to blow your house away. And the reality is that part of your fence blew over and cost you $25 to repair it.
Hopefully this will be more of a fence than a whole house. But worrying is something that is in most of us.


----------



## Maggie3fan

ZenHerper said:


> Epidemiologists have said officially, but it has been largely shouted down by rhetoric.
> 
> Based on the MERS outbreak, incubation is estimated from 2-14 days.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) – Symptoms
> 
> 
> Self-Checker is a guide to make decisions on when to get testing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.cdc.gov
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Recovery varies, depending on strength of immune response, and susceptibility to co-infective agents.



Frankly...I sure am glad you are on this Forum...your information is exceptional and we all need it...thanks


----------



## ZenHerper

maggie18fan said:


> Frankly...I sure am glad you are on this Forum...your information is exceptional and we all need it...thanks



((Hugs))


----------



## Tom

Toddrickfl1 said:


> I've actually been feeling pretty sick since yesterday. Went to the doctor this morning and lucky me it's not Corona, but tested positive for the flu!


An airline pilot is the husband of a lady who was in a business establishment that my wife and daughter were in a few days ago. Found out later the guy was showing symptoms. He tested negative for Covid 19, and positive for the flu too, just like you. No symptoms here, so I think we didn't get either.

Hope you feel better buddy. I hate seeing any of my people sick.


----------



## Tom

maggie18fan said:


> I am totally freaked out by the panic...empty shelves now...just what will be avaliable to me Friday when I have money...this is just what I think about the whole thing...scared ...and...


Maggie????? CHILL OUT!!! And I love you. 

As I read your posts, it reminded me of the scene in "Airplane" where the lady was freaking out, and there was a line of people ready to help calm her down...


----------



## Toddrickfl1

Thanks man.


----------



## Maggie3fan

Tom said:


> Maggie????? CHILL OUT!!! And I love you.
> 
> As I read your posts, it reminded me of the scene in "Airplane" where the lady was freaking out, and there was a line of people ready to help calm her down...


 I am actually only freaking out inside myself now...scared and feeling sorry for myself...I am tough and resourceful and have too many animals to care for to let myself flip out...but I want too...Thanks Tom...I needed that 'slap in the face'...


----------



## Cathie G

I had to get a kitty scan on my lungs today so of course I couldn't sleep half the night. All my dreams were I couldn't find a way to shut the t.v. s off. No remote control that I had would work. After the scan, checking my innards,I decided to make a day of it and visit our local Krogers. I was pleasantly surprised. The only thing they were actually out of (so far) was toilet paper for heaven's sake. I'm sorry I can't understand why the tp and why did I have to make do with a pound of unsalted butter because they were really low on butter. My favorite clerks said they were glad I didn't come in over the weekend...cause I would have gotten run over. Here I thought that the only ones that are truely at risk are the elderly and people with certain chronic health problems. Come to find out, I'd get run over if I tried to get their toilet paper. I guess they need it more then me...hehehe


----------



## Maggie3fan

Toddrickfl1 said:


> Thanks man.



We are all fine


----------



## Yvonne G

Tom said:


> Maggie????? CHILL OUT!!! And I love you.
> 
> As I read your posts, it reminded me of the scene in "Airplane" where the lady was freaking out, and there was a line of people ready to help calm her down...


I don't know how many members saw Maggie's rant before I had a chance to remove it, but to explain - She wrote that on a FB trucker group she belongs to and, not being computer literate or understanding how to use her lap top/ chromebook, it somehow got copied and posted to the forum too. She tried all she knew how to delete it, to no avail, so she called me and asked me to delete it. Trouble was I couldn't find it. The only thing I can figure is my Kindle must've been looking at a cached copy an d not the current copy. But this a.m. when I accessed from my computer, there it was. So it has now been removed and Maggie's sorry she offended anyone


----------



## ZEROPILOT

My wife has also been sent home now.
No work until further notice.
In the short term, she will still get a paycheck.
For a lot of folks sent home, they will not.


----------



## Cathie G

ZEROPILOT said:


> I strongly assume that the number of actually infected are much higher than we now know due to the little symptoms that some of us will get.


I was waiting for Columbus to get it's first confirmed case. They have a major airport and OSU. They have no way of knowing the number of people already infected since they are just playing catch up with testing. Columbus is less then 28 miles from little old me. Many people from my city commute to Columbus for work. My brother goes there twice a week for his art program for disabled adults...we'll see.


----------



## Cathie G

Yvonne G said:


> I don't know how many members saw Maggie's rant before I had a chance to remove it, but to explain - She wrote that on a FB trucker group she belongs to and, not being computer literate or understanding how to use her lap top/ chromebook, it somehow got copied and posted to the forum too. She tried all she knew how to delete it, to no avail, so she called me and asked me to delete it. Trouble was I couldn't find it. The only thing I can figure is my Kindle must've been looking at a cached copy an d not the current copy. But this a.m. when I accessed from my computer, there it was. So it has now been removed and Maggie's sorry she offended anyone


Oh me oh my. Butt I'd probably read it anyway. Maybe I missed it somehow.


----------



## Maggie3fan

Yvonne G said:


> I don't know how many members saw Maggie's rant before I had a chance to remove it, but to explain - She wrote that on a FB trucker group she belongs to and, not being computer literate or understanding how to use her lap top/ chromebook, it somehow got copied and posted to the forum too. She tried all she knew how to delete it, to no avail, so she called me and asked me to delete it. Trouble was I couldn't find it. The only thing I can figure is my Kindle must've been looking at a cached copy an d not the current copy. But this a.m. when I accessed from my computer, there it was. So it has now been removed and Maggie's sorry she offended anyone



I am more than sorry...I am dismayed and humiliated. Even the people who don't like me here would admit...I don't ever talk like that on this Forum...like Y said...I did post it on my truckers FB page...then came here and when I clicked on reply to someone's post...and crap...my tirade was posted here...I tried 'cut' and 'delete' to no avail...I am sincerely sorry...I hope I will be forgiven...and I slink off in embarrassment...


----------



## Cathie G

Tom said:


> She found an exterminator website for me on the web.


?


----------



## Blackdog1714

maggie18fan said:


> I am more than sorry...I am dismayed and humiliated. Even the people who don't like me here would admit...I don't ever talk like that on this Forum...like Y said...I did post it on my truckers FB page...then came here and when I clicked on reply to someone's post...and crap...my tirade was posted here...I tried 'cut' and 'delete' to no avail...I am sincerely sorry...I hope I will be forgiven...and I slink off in embarrassment...


I should have known- a truckers FB page! Makes so much sense, but due to my career and my tennis obsessed wife I am no shrinking violet when it comes to cussing. It’s the quiet ones that really scare me!


----------



## Cathie G

maggie18fan said:


> I am totally freaked out by the panic...empty shelves now...just what will be avaliable to me Friday when I have money...this is just what I think about the whole thing...scared ...and...
> View attachment 288235


Don't get freaked out too much. They already spent all their money on toilet paper and rubbing alcohol. They'll have to stay home to protect their life savings.


----------



## Tom

maggie18fan said:


> I am more than sorry...I am dismayed and humiliated. Even the people who don't like me here would admit...I don't ever talk like that on this Forum...like Y said...I did post it on my truckers FB page...then came here and when I clicked on reply to someone's post...and crap...my tirade was posted here...I tried 'cut' and 'delete' to no avail...I am sincerely sorry...I hope I will be forgiven...and I slink off in embarrassment...


Truckers??? I thought it was sailors who talked like that!!!  No big deal Maggie. Don't worry about it. Come back here and stop slinking. We love you for who you are. Ain't none of us perfect either, ya know.


----------



## ZenHerper

maggie18fan said:


> I am more than sorry...



Good news: tortoises don't have ears. And they don't read the internet.

They really are better than we are. Well, they've had more practice...

And here's a nugget about the adaptive benefits of swearing:









Swearing Can Actually Increase Pain Tolerance


Researchers have determined that swearing can have a ‘pain-lessening effect’, according to new study.



www.sciencedaily.com


----------



## Tom

ZenHerper said:


>



Where did you get that "Peanut Butter Jelly Time" dancing banana emoji???


----------



## ZenHerper

Heh. You might slip and fall in. Don't say I didn't warn you:





__





Upside down banana emoticon | Emoticons and Smileys for Facebook/MSN/Skype/Yahoo







www.sherv.net


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Yvonne G said:


> I don't know how many members saw Maggie's rant before I had a chance to remove it, but to explain - She wrote that on a FB trucker group she belongs to and, not being computer literate or understanding how to use her lap top/ chromebook, it somehow got copied and posted to the forum too. She tried all she knew how to delete it, to no avail, so she called me and asked me to delete it. Trouble was I couldn't find it. The only thing I can figure is my Kindle must've been looking at a cached copy an d not the current copy. But this a.m. when I accessed from my computer, there it was. So it has now been removed and Maggie's sorry she offended anyone


I love Maggie and her rants have been some of the best readings on this forum.
Everyone gets POed at something


----------



## ZEROPILOT

maggie18fan said:


> I am more than sorry...I am dismayed and humiliated. Even the people who don't like me here would admit...I don't ever talk like that on this Forum...like Y said...I did post it on my truckers FB page...then came here and when I clicked on reply to someone's post...and crap...my tirade was posted here...I tried 'cut' and 'delete' to no avail...I am sincerely sorry...I hope I will be forgiven...and I slink off in embarrassment...


Don't be embarrassed 
I wouldn't want everything I've ever posted held against me.


----------



## Tom

There is talk of gas stations here not refilling once they sell out of what they have in the tanks.

If that happens, I predict major civil unrest. If you take away food, water, electricity or gasoline, things go bad fast. Real fast.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Tom said:


> There is talk of gas stations here not refilling once they sell out of what they have in the tanks.
> 
> If that happens, I predict major civil unrest. If you take away food, water, electricity or gasoline, things go bad fast. Real fast.


Inconvenienced humans become animals pretty fast.
Not all of us, but enough of us that there would be a serious issue


----------



## queen koopa

Toddrickfl1 said:


> It's getting a little sketchy here in GA. Everything closing, stores empty. People acting irrational. Be mindful of germs and stay safe out there tortoise forum friends.
> 
> thanks for starting this post.
> Henderson Nevada here (neighbor city Las Vegas. In the past 7-10 days casinos are closing. Ghost town on the strip. Even whole foods was sold out of everything, including vegan stuff now HAHA. I’m plant based myself, any-who I visited a Stations casino in Henderson 3 days ago and it was totally normal in there. Went to Laughlin Nevada yesterday and it was busy in the casinos I went to, but also I think 1 or 1 were closed. Hotel security on toilet paper watch. Also I was by far the youngest person there at 33 (which is just fine). Chatted with a front desk manager at The River Lodge, owned by Dottys and she said the only way they close down is if the Health Dept shuts them down. So I’ve been a bartender and server for about 6 yrs, worked in So Cal and now here in Henderson and on the strip. I can tell you that the Health Dept is a joke in both states, just ridiculous, worse in vegas. If state health departments actually worked here hotels, casinos, and spas would not exist. Outlawed as hazardous! Ha! Sick the things I know about vegas now. Also I think I read somewhere down in this thread that if influenzas were handled in the way corona virus is then there would less deaths/infections. I feel if we handled our year around flue like this, the American way of life would cease to exist. Stay safe guys!


----------



## queen koopa

PS


ZEROPILOT said:


> That's my thought too.
> I know a few people that were really sick a month or so ago.
> I still have a scratchy throat and itchy, runny eyes. (And no known allergies)


Sadly we humans are grossly over populated and will always be sick. On going proof of social filth = rats & cockroaches, AND viruses. Theres my rant. Oh and I wish I would have seen maggies post!


----------



## Toddrickfl1

maggie18fan said:


> I am more than sorry...I am dismayed and humiliated. Even the people who don't like me here would admit...I don't ever talk like that on this Forum...like Y said...I did post it on my truckers FB page...then came here and when I clicked on reply to someone's post...and crap...my tirade was posted here...I tried 'cut' and 'delete' to no avail...I am sincerely sorry...I hope I will be forgiven...and I slink off in embarrassment...


No offense taken, I thought you were just telling us how you really felt! Lol I think the majority of us here are adults.


----------



## ZenHerper

Tom said:


> There is talk of gas stations here not refilling once they sell out of what they have in the tanks.
> 
> If that happens, I predict major civil unrest. If you take away food, water, electricity or gasoline, things go bad fast. Real fast.



Who is doing the talking, and what is their factual basis for it?


----------



## Tom

ZenHerper said:


> Who is doing the talking, and what is their factual basis for it?


My auto mechanic and the manager of this particular station. Factual basis? The manager said "We are 1000 gallons down, and we don't plan on refilling when its empty."


----------



## ZenHerper

Tom said:


> My auto mechanic and the manager of this particular station. Factual basis? The manager said "We are 1000 gallons down, and we don't plan on refilling when its empty."



So that's his personal decision about closing his station? 

Which would be different from an actual shortage.

I could picture National Guard refueling trucks becoming a thing if either were to happen widely (like is done for water shortages).


----------



## Maro2Bear

Tom said:


> There is talk of gas stations here not refilling once they sell out of what they have in the tanks.
> 
> If that happens, I predict major civil unrest. If you take away food, water, electricity or gasoline, things go bad fast. Real fast.



Just filled up at Sams Club here in Maryland. It’s dropped again to $1.84/gallon.


----------



## Maro2Bear

We were living in Tbilisi, Georgia in 2006 when Russia & Georgia were feuding (more than normal) and all gasoline stations ran out due to terrorist acts on the pipelines thst supplied Georgia. Natural gas lines were cut as well. Main electric lines were also cut. Doesn't take long for things to downhill fast. No gas, no power, no movement, no refridgeration.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

I filled up my hurricane season gas cans early. (For my generator)I needed to do it anyway and now I feel better about it.
We had an issue finding a restaurant to eat lunch and TD BANK was limiting cash withdrawals to $2,000.
(I wanted $2,500 to purchase an old motorcycle and had to get it from my Wells Fargo account)
I've had about enough of TD BANK. After this thing passes, I'm closing out that account.
Afterwards we went to Publix again and it is still full of most things to eat.


----------



## Maro2Bear

ZEROPILOT said:


> I filled up my hurricane season gas cans early. (For my generator)I needed to do it anyway and now I feel better about it.
> We had an issue finding a restaurant to eat lunch and TD BANK was limiting cash withdrawals to $2,000.
> (I wanted $2,500 to purchase an old motorcycle and had to get it from my Wells Fargo account)
> I've had about enough of TD BANK. After this thing passes, I'm closing out that account.
> Afterwards we went to Publix again and it is still full of most things to eat.



....and “ABC” stores...fully stocked?


----------



## ZEROPILOT

A rusty, crusty, ancient Kawasaki Z1 might just cure the boredom.


----------



## ZenHerper

Stock levels around me are "rolling"...Sunday there was no bread to be seen anywhere; today plenty of bread, canned goods pretty scarce.

What I recommend to my shop-from-home customers: If the store was out of things on their shopping list today, place another little order in 2-3 days. Most shopping services offer subscriptions that allow customers to shop without other fees, regardless of the number of items on their list, or the number of orders placed across the subscription's duration.

I found a number of things I needed to day in a small store that I thought might be a poor option, but it turned out to be not so bad...and people may have been driving past it thinking larger chains would be better off.

For anyone wanting to avoid being around the general public, call stores ahead and ask to speak to the manager in charge of the department you want to shop.


----------



## Tom

ZEROPILOT said:


> A rusty, crusty, ancient Kawasaki Z1 might just cure the boredom.


Or kill you...

I just got my forks and shock re-done on my YZ250F, and planned on riding every day. There is a little oval track near my ranch and someone has been busy out there making all sorts of new hits connected by fun trails. But of course, Murphy has now jumped in... After an exceptionally dry winter, it has been raining hard here nearly every day for two weeks, and no end to the rain in sight. Unlike the South which drains very well even with feet of rain, if we get a half inch out here, everything turns into a mud bog for days.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Bam
Just like that...
All restaurants in Broward county were just ordered shut down immediately.
Glad I got those Fajitas!
Glad I tipped so well.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Tom said:


> Or kill you...
> 
> I just got my forks and shock re-done on my YZ250F, and planned on riding every day. There is a little oval track near my ranch and someone has been busy out there making all sorts of new hits connected by fun trails. But of course, Murphy has now jumped in... After an exceptionally dry winter, it has been raining hard here nearly every day for two weeks, and no end to the rain in sight. Unlike the South which drains very well even with feet of rain, if we get a half inch out here, everything turns into a mud bog for days.


I can't do dirt bikes. My back can't handle them.
My last one was actually an enduro 1974 Suzuki TS 400.
One of my only non Kawasakis.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Oh, crap.
All bars and nightclubs shut down too!!


----------



## Toddrickfl1

ZEROPILOT said:


> Bam
> Just like that...
> All restaurants in Broward county were just ordered shut down immediately.
> Glad I got those Fajitas!
> Glad I tipped so well.


I really feel like a national lockdown is coming.


----------



## Maro2Bear

Toddrickfl1 said:


> I really feel like a national lockdown is coming.



Best to be safe now than really sorry in two weeks time. Lots of folks thinking it is silly and hype and over reaction. We are way behind the 8 Ball now, drastic measures required to break even, & flatten the curve.


----------



## vladimir

Here in Pennsylvania, all liquor is sold through the state stores which are closing indefinitely starting tonight: https://www.ydr.com/story/news/2020...-liquor-stores-close-indefinitely/5062906002/


----------



## Maro2Bear

vladimir said:


> Here in Pennsylvania, all liquor is sold through the state stores which are closing indefinitely starting tonight: https://www.ydr.com/story/news/2020...-liquor-stores-close-indefinitely/5062906002/



Wow.......time to reboot the still!


----------



## Tom

Toddrickfl1 said:


> I really feel like a national lockdown is coming.


That is what I've heard. Inside source at the Pentagon. But they said it was going to happen Monday and it didn't. Seems to be a fluid situation with things changing by the minute.


----------



## Tom

Maro2Bear said:


> Wow.......time to reboot the still!


My brother in law does that. You just sip it. No shots. We are all set here.


----------



## Cathie G

ZEROPILOT said:


> Not only are schools closed. But now all non essential school board employees are off next week.
> I'm not sure why it's just next week. Or if this plan will change as needed.
> The Walmart food market had lots of food and bread. And there was an almost organized line of people clamoring for a package of toilet paper from a just arrived shipment.
> I've given away to my neighbors or dumped into my vehicles all of my left over hurricane gasoline reserve from the uneventful 2019 season.And have filled up my tanks with fresh fuel. If not needed for this crisis, itll simply become hurricane gasoline for the 2020 season. (For the generator)
> I placed stabilizer in it. So it's good for a year.
> Gas stations are clear and have no lines.
> I still know no one that is sick in my circle of friends and family.
> I hope everyone else is also well.


That's interesting. I use an addition to the gas in my 1990 dodge also but... What do you use to stabilize your gas for a year?


----------



## Maro2Bear

Cathie G said:


> That's interesting. I use an addition to the gas in my 1990 dodge also but... What do you use to stabilize your gas for a year?



STABIL -https://www.walmart.com/ip/STA-BIL-22214-Storage-Fuel-Stabilizer-for-All-Gasoline-Engines-32-fl-oz/16645039


----------



## Cathie G

Toddrickfl1 said:


> I've actually been feeling pretty sick since yesterday. Went to the doctor this morning and lucky me it's not Corona, but tested positive for the flu!


I'm so happy you just have the flue...lucky you.???


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Cathie G said:


> That's interesting. I use an addition to the gas in my 1990 dodge also but... What do you use to stabilize your gas for a year?


I use a product called K100.
Its the best product I've ever encountered. It stabilizes gas. Raises octane in gas that is already "stale" and helps to burn water from ethanol at a 1 to 1 ratio. I use 3 ounces per 5 gallons and those 3 ounces can displace 3 ounces of water.
Or you can use STA BIL at a rate of 2 ounces per 5 gallons. Fill the container to the top to keep out most of the air. And that'll work for over 12 months. (It does nothing for the water attracted by the alcohol if you don't fill it to the top to keep out the air.)
I've purchased old vehicles with stale varnished gasoline. Contaminated with water and by adding K100 and some fresh gas have been able to start and drive these vehicles. Sometimes making removal and cleaning of the whole fuel system unnecessary.
Its GREAT stuff. There are a half dozen other additives for stabilizing fuel, Startron, Sta bil, etc. But they're purely crap compared to K100.
Itll stabilize gas AND get you out of trouble if you forgot to.


----------



## Cathie G

Maro2Bear said:


> STABIL -https://www.walmart.com/ip/STA-BIL-22214-Storage-Fuel-Stabilizer-for-All-Gasoline-Engines-32-fl-oz/16645039


I'll be looking the next time I go shopping at walmart...with my screen shot.


----------



## Cathie G

ZEROPILOT said:


> I use a product called K100.
> Its the best product I've ever encountered. It stabilizes gas. Raises octane in gas that is already "stale" and helps to burn water from ethanol at a 1 to 1 ratio. I use 3 ounces per 5 gallons and those 3 ounces can displace 3 ounces of water.
> Or you can use STA BIL at a rate of 2 ounces per 5 gallons. Fill the container to the top to keep out most of the air. And that'll work for over 12 months. (It does nothing for the water attracted by the alcohol if you don't fill it to the top to keep out the air.)
> I've purchased old vehicles with stale varnished gasoline. Contaminated with water and by adding K100 and some fresh gas have been able to start and drive these vehicles. Sometimes making removal and cleaning of the whole fuel system unnecessary.
> Its GREAT stuff. There are a half dozen other additives for stabilizing fuel, Startron, Sta bil, etc. But they're purely crap compared to K100.
> Itll stabilize gas AND get you out of trouble if you forgot to.


I have an old Dodge sooo it does get moisture in the gas now and then. I don't drive it a lot so the gas could sit a while now and then. I think I remember???something. I've seen the K100 in my local auto zone. Thank you.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Cathie G said:


> I have an old Dodge sooo it does get moisture in the gas now and then. I don't drive it a lot so the gas could sit a while now and then. I think I remember???something. I've seen the K100 in my local auto zone. Thank you.


I can not articulate how highly I think of that product.
While I was still a mechanic, I'll bet that product saved the school board tens of thousand dollars over the last dozen years. It's the only additive of any type that we ever purchased and then kept as part of our standard supplies.
Just having one kid pee into one fuel tank would make you a believer.


----------



## Maggie3fan

ZEROPILOT said:


> I can not articulate how highly I think of that product.
> While I was still a mechanic, I'll bet that product saved the school board tens of thousand dollars over the last dozen years. It's the only additive of any type that we ever purchased and then kept as part of our standard supplies.
> Just having one kid pee into one fuel tank would make you a believer.


Really...please tell my how you either just thought it up...or did you have a kid pee in your gas tank...how does that happen...rotflmao


----------



## queen koopa

Update on Nevada. All non essential business closed tonight, all gambling establishments closed for 30 days. Um... how can anyone feel even the least bit safe with the closure of our society for 30 days!?? Who is that benefiting? And is 30 the magic number? What’s going to be happening on our streets and empty businesses?


----------



## ZEROPILOT

maggie18fan said:


> Really...please tell my how you either just thought it up...or did you have a kid pee in your gas tank...how does that happen...rotflmao


Pour in some K100 and the pee burns.
Don't use the K100 and you need to siphon out the gasoline/pee mixture.


----------



## Maggie3fan

ZEROPILOT said:


> Pour in some K100 and the pee burns.
> Don't use the K100 and you need to siphon out the gasoline/pee mixture.



You miss understood me...how in the heck...do you know this...I am 74, been driving since I was 16...and to my knowledge, even tho most people dislike me...nobody has ever peed in my tank...


----------



## Tom

ZenHerper said:


> So that's his personal decision about closing his station?
> 
> Which would be different from an actual shortage.
> 
> I could picture National Guard refueling trucks becoming a thing if either were to happen widely (like is done for water shortages).


That is what he said. No one ever said anything about a shortage.


----------



## mark1

misinformation abounds ………. I made 20$ yesterday off a guy who left work early the day before to buy a gun , because he knew someone who heard from someone high up in the military that the president was going to shut down the country at 3pm Monday ………. Friday i'll be making 50$ off a guy whose son was high up in the military and still knew guys high up in the military and they told him we were locking down the country this week ……I've heard folks mentioning "marshall law" , probably the same folks with a room full of toilet paper …. the ramifications of completely shutting down the united states economy is not something the world will get over anytime soon , i'm pretty certain it is going to take a massive amount of deaths ……… shutting down local areas might be possible , but not the nation , it'd take a "contagion" movie type disease ……. at least here the bars and restaurants can still sell food and liquor , they just cannot let you dine or drink there ………… shutting down the dining areas in restaurants , is not like shutting down steel mills and car manufacturers , that could have depression like repercussions ……... if you don't think political motives from outside and inside the country are behind these rumors , i'd disagree ……. it's amazing how many people I found out I know who know folks "high up" in the military ………. social media is a tool ……… and the guy that bought the gun he couldn't find any ammunition ……….. lol …... hopefully everyone gets all the stuff they think they need before i run out of stuff i do need ..........


----------



## smarch

vladimir said:


> Here in Pennsylvania, all liquor is sold through the state stores which are closing indefinitely starting tonight: https://www.ydr.com/story/news/2020...-liquor-stores-close-indefinitely/5062906002/


Ouch. I don’t drink and haven’t in over 3 years but the boyfriends old roommate was a fairly severe alcoholic, and it’s no joke alcohol withdrawals can kill. 
Meanwhile all we’re really concerned about here in MA is if the dispensaries are going to close.


----------



## Yvonne G

ZEROPILOT said:


> I can not articulate how highly I think of that product.
> While I was still a mechanic, I'll bet that product saved the school board tens of thousand dollars over the last dozen years. It's the only additive of any type that we ever purchased and then kept as part of our standard supplies.
> Just having one kid pee into one fuel tank would make you a believer.


Man, that sutff's expensive. I just went to Amazon to check it out. I use Sta-Bil for my lawn mower and it's $7 a bottle. K100 is a dollar an ounce, or $33 for a 32 oz bottle.


----------



## Yvonne G

maggie18fan said:


> You miss understood me...how in the heck...do you know this...I am 74, been driving since I was 16...and to my knowledge, even tho most people dislike me...nobody has ever peed in my tank...


I got the impression the kids pee'd into the school bus gas tank. I don't know how one would know the reason the bus wouldn't start was because someone pee'd in the tank.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

maggie18fan said:


> You miss understood me...how in the heck...do you know this...I am 74, been driving since I was 16...and to my knowledge, even tho most people dislike me...nobody has ever peed in my tank...


These vehicles are stored at schools.
Kids are often ☆☆sholes


----------



## Toddrickfl1

ZEROPILOT said:


> These vehicles are stored at schools.
> Kids are often ☆☆sholes


Ya man if you worked for the school board back in the 90s I'm sorry about that ?


----------



## ZEROPILOT

mark1 said:


> misinformation abounds ………. I made 20$ yesterday off a guy who left work early the day before to buy a gun , because he knew someone who heard from someone high up in the military that the president was going to shut down the country at 3pm Monday ………. Friday i'll be making 50$ off a guy whose son was high up in the military and still knew guys high up in the military and they told him we were locking down the country this week ……I've heard folks mentioning "marshall law" , probably the same folks with a room full of toilet paper …. the ramifications of completely shutting down the united states economy is not something the world will get over anytime soon , i'm pretty certain it is going to take a massive amount of deaths ……… shutting down local areas might be possible , but not the nation , it'd take a "contagion" movie type disease ……. at least here the bars and restaurants can still sell food and liquor , they just cannot let you dine or drink there ………… shutting down the dining areas in restaurants , is not like shutting down steel mills and car manufacturers , that could have depression like repercussions ……... if you don't think political motives from outside and inside the country are behind these rumors , i'd disagree ……. it's amazing how many people I found out I know who know folks "high up" in the military ………. social media is a tool ……… and the guy that bought the gun he couldn't find any ammunition ……….. lol …... hopefully everyone gets all the stuff they think they need before i run out of stuff i do need ..........


Remember the Email/Facebook post that went out from a "friend" who knew a high ranking CDC member? They had tips on how to know that you don't have the virus and how to prevent it?
All known to be false, now.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Yvonne G said:


> I got the impression the kids pee'd into the school bus gas tank. I don't know how one would know the reason the bus wouldn't start was because someone pee'd in the tank.


That'd require the Diesel formula.
There is a K100 diesel formula. But it does nothing for diesel algae. And that's much more common.
I've never used the K100 for a diesel.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Toddrickfl1 said:


> Ya man if you worked for the school board back in the 90s I'm sorry about that ?


Since 1981 actually


----------



## queen koopa

vladimir said:


> Here in Pennsylvania, all liquor is sold through the state stores which are closing indefinitely starting tonight: https://www.ydr.com/story/news/2020...-liquor-stores-close-indefinitely/5062906002/


Government has forgotten Alcohol prohibition ?? What the heck. Closure of society is and will cause far more long term damage. Hang in there Pennsylvania!


----------



## Tom

mark1 said:


> misinformation abounds ………. I made 20$ yesterday off a guy who left work early the day before to buy a gun , because he knew someone who heard from someone high up in the military that the president was going to shut down the country at 3pm Monday ………. Friday i'll be making 50$ off a guy whose son was high up in the military and still knew guys high up in the military and they told him we were locking down the country this week ……I've heard folks mentioning "marshall law" , probably the same folks with a room full of toilet paper …. the ramifications of completely shutting down the united states economy is not something the world will get over anytime soon , i'm pretty certain it is going to take a massive amount of deaths ……… shutting down local areas might be possible , but not the nation , it'd take a "contagion" movie type disease ……. at least here the bars and restaurants can still sell food and liquor , they just cannot let you dine or drink there ………… shutting down the dining areas in restaurants , is not like shutting down steel mills and car manufacturers , that could have depression like repercussions ……... if you don't think political motives from outside and inside the country are behind these rumors , i'd disagree ……. it's amazing how many people I found out I know who know folks "high up" in the military ………. social media is a tool ……… and the guy that bought the gun he couldn't find any ammunition ……….. lol …... hopefully everyone gets all the stuff they think they need before i run out of stuff i do need ..........


We finally agree on some stuff! 

I can't understand the people who try to prepare for a crisis while in the middle of a crisis. "PRE-pare"...

And buying a gun now? What for? People should have bought several over the last few years and taken the time to get trained to use it correctly, effectively, and safely. Right now they are just buying them, loading them with whatever bullets they can find, and haven't ever even fired them. I don't want that sort of person within firing distance of me or my family. I can only hope that someone who knows what they are doing is at least teaching them some fundamental safety rules and having them dry fire practice if the ranges are closed. My family has been getting refresher courses since this thing started a few weeks ago.

I can't understand what some of the people we share our country with are thinking sometimes.


----------



## jaizei

queen koopa said:


> Government has forgotten Alcohol prohibition ?? What the heck. Closure of society is and will cause far more long term damage. Hang in there Pennsylvania!





https://www.imperial.ac.uk/media/imperial-college/medicine/sph/ide/gida-fellowships/Imperial-College-COVID19-NPI-modelling-16-03-2020.pdf


----------



## Toddrickfl1

I think it's more widespread than they're telling us. I know of 3 people who have symptoms similar to Covid 19, one a family member, and none of them have been able to get tested. They are only testing people who have recently left the country or if you know for sure you've come in contact with someone with it. I don't see how they plan on stopping this if they aren't testing folks with the symptoms.


----------



## jaizei

Toddrickfl1 said:


> I think it's more widespread than they're telling us. I know of 3 people who have symptoms similar to Covid 19, one a family member, and none of them have been able to get tested. They are only testing people who have recently left the country or if you know for sure you've come in contact with someone with it. I don't see how they plan on stopping this if they aren't testing folks with the symptoms.



No test means no virus. *man taps head* Outside of a certain demographic/bubble, everyone has been saying this since January. 


Anyone who is surprised by this, didn't realize how serious it was until 3 days ago, you need to reconsider your sources of information and media consumption. Every credible public health expert has yelling that this is serious for over a month.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Tom said:


> We finally agree on some stuff!
> 
> I can't understand the people who try to prepare for a crisis while in the middle of a crisis. "PRE-pare"...
> 
> And buying a gun now? What for? People should have bought several over the last few years and taken the time to get trained to use it correctly, effectively, and safely. Right now they are just buying them, loading them with whatever bullets they can find, and haven't ever even fired them. I don't want that sort of person within firing distance of me or my family. I can only hope that someone who knows what they are doing is at least teaching them some fundamental safety rules and having them dry fire practice if the ranges are closed. My family has been getting refresher courses since this thing started a few weeks ago.
> 
> I can't understand what some of the people we share our country with are thinking sometimes.


I haven't seen or heard about any mass gun buying here. And most of my friends are also gun owners.
I haven't seen a big gun or ammo grab since the Obama administration. And maybe some learned a lesson then?


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Toddrickfl1 said:


> I think it's more widespread than they're telling us. I know of 3 people who have symptoms similar to Covid 19, one a family member, and none of them have been able to get tested. They are only testing people who have recently left the country or if you know for sure you've come in contact with someone with it. I don't see how they plan on stopping this if they aren't testing folks with the symptoms.


There is the initial test to show that you have it. Then another TWO to show when you are no longer shedding the virus. That's 3 tests per person!
Lots of luck with that one


----------



## Pistachio's Pamperer

The mass gun buying is happening here. You can't go in any gun store/pawn shop/sporting goods store and get ammo. Especially if it's a common round like 22. The guns themselves are extremely picked over as well. A local "private" gun club has taken it upon themselves to offer FREE lessons and such as a lot of them are retirees/ppl off work. So at least some folks here are trying to "help"? with that situation. 

-Meg


----------



## queen koopa

ZEROPILOT said:


> There is the initial test to show that you have it. Then another TWO to show when you are no longer shedding the virus. That's 3 tests per person!
> Lots of luck with that one


Exactly, good luck on that one. And we never test for all the other viruses Americans die from everyday! Saw a chart with # of supposable infections in the US states, It was there in many states, but very low. Id like to see a chart with different viruses and how many are in circulation in the US at any given time. Anyone know of some good research on that?


----------



## smarch

queen koopa said:


> Exactly, good luck on that one. And we never test for all the other viruses Americans die from everyday! Saw a chart with # of supposable infections in the US states, It was there in many states, but very low. Id like to see a chart with different viruses and how many are in circulation in the US at any given time. Anyone know of some good research on that?


I get that some populations it would be important to do testing. But fact is, if I catch it (and I know the likelihood is there, especially with how much I travel around for work exposing myself to plenty of populations) I’m not just going to go rush to get tested, in fact unless I had complications (and at 26 without any underlying conditions chances arent huge) I’d just need to self quarantine (myself and the boyfriend) and stay hydrated and move on with my life after. In a way I’d almost just be relieved to get it over with. I’ve had the flu, did I go get tested to see if that’s what it was? No, I suffered through ate my crackers and drank all the juice and seltzer’s and got better. My biggest concern this whole time has been getting sick and accidentally passing it on to someone at risk, especially with the fact that some of the places I work are assisted living (who before vacation they were not letting anyone in so that made things a little better minus not being able to do my job there).


----------



## Toddrickfl1

smarch said:


> I get that some populations it would be important to do testing. But fact is, if I catch it (and I know the likelihood is there, especially with how much I travel around for work exposing myself to plenty of populations) I’m not just going to go rush to get tested, in fact unless I had complications (and at 26 without any underlying conditions chances arent huge) I’d just need to self quarantine (myself and the boyfriend) and stay hydrated and move on with my life after. In a way I’d almost just be relieved to get it over with. I’ve had the flu, did I go get tested to see if that’s what it was? No, I suffered through ate my crackers and drank all the juice and seltzer’s and got better. My biggest concern this whole time has been getting sick and accidentally passing it on to someone at risk, especially with the fact that some of the places I work are assisted living (who before vacation they were not letting anyone in so that made things a little better minus not being able to do my job there).


Without testing everyone with symptoms I think a lot of people might just think they've got a cold and continue to go about their business further spreading it. If these same people were tested and in fact knew they had Covid 19 they'd be much more likely to isolate themselves and take precautions to not spread it.


----------



## Maggie3fan

ZEROPILOT said:


> Remember the Email/Facebook post that went out from a "friend" who knew a high ranking CDC member? They had tips on how to know that you don't have the virus and how to prevent it?
> All known to be false, now.


In Oregon the governor has effectively shut down life as we know it...she even stopped truck interstate and intrastate driving except for trucks that carry necessities for the grocery stores, if you drive a log truck you are shut down...big paper rolls outa work... the necessities drivers have an increased hours of service which scares me...when I drove I was in good shape mentally and physically and constantly fabricated my log book, so I can say that after about 13 to 15 hrs of driving a big truck with all the things that involved..your driving becomes dangerous...I hate the thought of the trucking industry shutting down...because that WILL bring the nation to a halt...everything you touch in your daily life came in some form or another on a big trk...from your make up, your gas, food, to your car.


----------



## Maggie3fan

ZEROPILOT said:


> I haven't seen or heard about any mass gun buying here. And most of my friends are also gun owners.
> I haven't seen a big gun or ammo grab since the Obama administration. And maybe some learned a lesson then?



My bestest friend works in a gun store here in Oregon...there HAS been a run on guns, bullets, scopes and ammo. I usta laugh and say..."what are they gonna do...shoot sick people"...but now I'm thinking there's gonna be looting...Old a** people like me and my sister will be in some danger then. Sort of like the Zombie 
acopoliss (sp) with real people...anyway...I'm trying to be logical about it...I live close to meth addicts and Oregon weirdo's so I bought a 9mm...figuring my knife isn't good for that...freakin dim fears in my head...I am experienced with guns and shoot fairly good...I probably won't ever need it...but in case I do...


----------



## 1289Gabe

maggie18fan said:


> My bestest friend works in a gun store here in Oregon...there HAS been a run on guns, bullets, scopes and ammo. I usta laugh and say..."what are they gonna do...shoot sick people"...but now I'm thinking there's gonna be looting...Old a** people like me and my sister will be in some danger then. Sort of like the Zombie
> acopoliss (sp) with real people...anyway...I'm trying to be logical about it...I live close to meth addicts and Oregon weirdo's so I bought a 9mm...figuring my knife isn't good for that...freakin dim fears in my head...I am experienced with guns and shoot fairly good...I probably won't ever need it...but in case I do...


Hopefully no one gets hurt!??


----------



## Maggie3fan

1289Gabe said:


> Hopefully no one gets hurt!??


Seriously!...But I have been practicing with my expert gun person friend...and know when and when not to pull out a gun...no worries...


----------



## 1289Gabe

maggie18fan said:


> Seriously!...But I have been practicing with my expert gun person friend...and know when and when not to pull out a gun...no worries...


*sigh*


----------



## ManicTurt

I next to the bay area, it is pretty crazy here as well. I was told to not be in gatherings of 10 or more. I can at least work from home for a short time but our store is looking sad. Stay safe please!


----------



## queen koopa

maggie18fan said:


> My bestest friend works in a gun store here in Oregon...there HAS been a run on guns, bullets, scopes and ammo. I usta laugh and say..."what are they gonna do...shoot sick people"...but now I'm thinking there's gonna be looting...Old a** people like me and my sister will be in some danger then. Sort of like the Zombie
> acopoliss (sp) with real people...anyway...I'm trying to be logical about it...I live close to meth addicts and Oregon weirdo's so I bought a 9mm...figuring my knife isn't good for that...freakin dim fears in my head...I am experienced with guns and shoot fairly good...I probably won't ever need it...but in case I do...


I thought this way too, but just for a second only. People are buying guns to shoot looters, home invaders, and government invaders. Criminals still exist even though the law abiding citizens are following quarantine and trying to get along. Police officers are people too, need to quarantine, stay with family also. They can’t be everywhere normally, going to be less now. Were same here on the shut down- las vegas. We have 5 horses, and have hay for 25-30 days as of now. But yesterday our local feed store was limiting to 4 bales of hay per person and she had not been able to get in contact with her suppliers..Thinking this has to do with trucking also.


----------



## Cathie G

ZEROPILOT said:


> I can not articulate how highly I think of that product.
> While I was still a mechanic, I'll bet that product saved the school board tens of thousand dollars over the last dozen years. It's the only additive of any type that we ever purchased and then kept as part of our standard supplies.
> Just having one kid pee into one fuel tank would make you a believer.


Dang little brats. I just recently had the fuel pump replaced sooo I'm going to try it. I'll put historic plates on it and show it as (and win) the ugliest vehicle contest. It still runs good.


----------



## 1289Gabe

queen koopa said:


> I thought this way too, but just for a second only. People are buying guns to shoot looters, home invaders, and government invaders. Criminals still exist even though the law abiding citizens are following quarantine and trying to get along. Police officers are people too, need to quarantine, stay with family also. They can’t be everywhere normally, going to be less now. Were same here on the shut down- las vegas. We have 5 horses, and have hay for 25-30 days as of now. But yesterday our local feed store was limiting to 4 bales of hay per person and she had not been able to get in contact with her suppliers..Thinking this has to do with trucking also.


Yah, I just ordered something on amazon and it was “prime” but it comes next week! They only are doing prime for necessities: baby supplies, paper towels, toilet paper, etc.


----------



## Cathie G

Toddrickfl1 said:


> I think it's more widespread than they're telling us. I know of 3 people who have symptoms similar to Covid 19, one a family member, and none of them have been able to get tested. They are only testing people who have recently left the country or if you know for sure you've come in contact with someone with it. I don't see how they plan on stopping this if they aren't testing folks with the symptoms.


I went to my lung doc today and as usual was yacking with everyone...they were having people with flue symptoms testing negative for the flue back in November yet recovering in a couple weeks. So sorry...it's still hard for me to believe they've done their math correctly. How could it possibly not have been here all along?


----------



## Connie Jo

Yvonne G said:


> LOL!!! Leave it to you.


I have a 12 pack of toilet paper & hand sanitizer I’m willing to trade for a ‘69 Mustang


----------



## 1289Gabe

Connie Jo said:


> I have a 12 pack of toilet paper & hand sanitizer I’m willing to trade for a ‘69 Mustang


I bet some people would do it for 50 rolls of toilet paper and like 100 tiny bottles of sanitizer.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Pistachio's Pamperer said:


> The mass gun buying is happening here. You can't go in any gun store/pawn shop/sporting goods store and get ammo. Especially if it's a common round like 22. The guns themselves are extremely picked over as well. A local "private" gun club has taken it upon themselves to offer FREE lessons and such as a lot of them are retirees/ppl off work. So at least some folks here are trying to "help"? with that situation.
> 
> -Meg


Yes.
I just saw that on the news.
I was wrong.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

smarch said:


> I get that some populations it would be important to do testing. But fact is, if I catch it (and I know the likelihood is there, especially with how much I travel around for work exposing myself to plenty of populations) I’m not just going to go rush to get tested, in fact unless I had complications (and at 26 without any underlying conditions chances arent huge) I’d just need to self quarantine (myself and the boyfriend) and stay hydrated and move on with my life after. In a way I’d almost just be relieved to get it over with. I’ve had the flu, did I go get tested to see if that’s what it was? No, I suffered through ate my crackers and drank all the juice and seltzer’s and got better. My biggest concern this whole time has been getting sick and accidentally passing it on to someone at risk, especially with the fact that some of the places I work are assisted living (who before vacation they were not letting anyone in so that made things a little better minus not being able to do my job there).


Without breathing difficulty, I would also just stay home and not get tested.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

maggie18fan said:


> In Oregon the governor has effectively shut down life as we know it...she even stopped truck interstate and intrastate driving except for trucks that carry necessities for the grocery stores, if you drive a log truck you are shut down...big paper rolls outa work... the necessities drivers have an increased hours of service which scares me...when I drove I was in good shape mentally and physically and constantly fabricated my log book, so I can say that after about 13 to 15 hrs of driving a big truck with all the things that involved..your driving becomes dangerous...I hate the thought of the trucking industry shutting down...because that WILL bring the nation to a halt...everything you touch in your daily life came in some form or another on a big trk...from your make up, your gas, food, to your car.


I have a class A CDL and drove a few large trucks on occasion for the school board including a semi wrecker rig.
I never stopped being scared to death while operating one of those big SOBs.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

maggie18fan said:


> My bestest friend works in a gun store here in Oregon...there HAS been a run on guns, bullets, scopes and ammo. I usta laugh and say..."what are they gonna do...shoot sick people"...but now I'm thinking there's gonna be looting...Old a** people like me and my sister will be in some danger then. Sort of like the Zombie
> acopoliss (sp) with real people...anyway...I'm trying to be logical about it...I live close to meth addicts and Oregon weirdo's so I bought a 9mm...figuring my knife isn't good for that...freakin dim fears in my head...I am experienced with guns and shoot fairly good...I probably won't ever need it...but in case I do...


Just the sense of security must do some good for our overall health.
I know it does for me.
And I remember seeing what happened in Louisiana when the levees broke...Shooting at rescue helecopters and "rape gangs".
Really?
Humans can get pretty sh#tty. Pretty fast.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Cathie G said:


> Dang little brats. I just recently had the fuel pump replaced sooo I'm going to try it. I'll put historic plates on it and show it as (and win) the ugliest vehicle contest. It still runs good.


1990 is before that catastrophic Chrysler/Fiat merger.
Those are hands down the worst vehicles you can purchase in the U.S.
Absolutely crap. And very likely the death of Fiat (Again) in the U.S.
Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep and Fiat belong together.
I'm glad I'm no longer a mechanic.


----------



## Maro2Bear

queen koopa said:


> I thought this way too, but just for a second only. People are buying guns to shoot looters, home invaders, and government invaders. Criminals still exist even though the law abiding citizens are following quarantine and trying to get along. Police officers are people too, need to quarantine, stay with family also. They can’t be everywhere normally, going to be less now. Were same here on the shut down- las vegas. We have 5 horses, and have hay for 25-30 days as of now. But yesterday our local feed store was limiting to 4 bales of hay per person and she had not been able to get in contact with her suppliers..Thinking this has to do with trucking also.



Baltimore, MD -We’re dealing with the COVID virus and those of you who want to continue to shoot and kill people in this city, we’re not going to tolerate it. We’re going to come after you and we’re going to get you," the Mayor said.


----------



## Cathie G

queen koopa said:


> Exactly, good luck on that one. And we never test for all the other viruses Americans die from everyday! Saw a chart with # of supposable infections in the US states, It was there in many states, but very low. Id like to see a chart with different viruses and how many are in circulation in the US at any given time. Anyone know of some good research on that?


Most doctors do a simple test in their office for the flue. It only takes minutes. It would come up negative if it's covid19. The test kit they have for covid19 takes 4 days I believe to develop and they just started testing. Their math can't possibly be correct but I'm glad they are trying to take care (a little to late) for the elderly and vulnerable. I just wish that certain people would understand that if they hoard everything, we won't be able to keep them safe from the virus in us.


----------



## Pistachio's Pamperer

We have a line of ppl here currently blocking a very busy road and a road used by the truckers so they aren’t driving through the down town. 

Guess why? 

Our local hospital got delivered a truck of tests. And the info was leaked. 

-Meg


----------



## ZenHerper

Infected men are more likely to die than infected women (though infections rates are equivalent):


These charts show who is most vulnerable to COVID-19



Covid-(20)19 can live in airborne droplets for at least 3 hours (longer times have not been tested); on cardboard for up to 24 hours; on plastic and stainless steel for several days:








COVID-19 can last a few days on surfaces, according to new experiment findings


New government-funded experiment shows that the virus can survive on surfaces such as plastic and stainless steel for up to three days.




abcnews.go.com


----------



## ZenHerper

Pistachio's Pamperer said:


> We have a line of ppl here currently blocking a very busy road and a road used by the truckers so they aren’t driving through the down town.
> 
> Guess why?
> 
> Our local hospital got delivered a truck of tests. And the info was leaked.
> 
> -Meg



And just showing up to a hospital or doctor's office without calling ahead is _the best_ way to mass-infect the emergency medical staff in your area.

((Hugs))


----------



## Cathie G

ZEROPILOT said:


> 1990 is before that catastrophic Chrysler/Fiat merger.
> Those are hands down the worst vehicles you can purchase in the U.S.
> Absolutely crap. And very likely the death of Fiat (Again) in the U.S.
> Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep and Fiat belong together.
> I'm glad I'm no longer a mechanic.


I❤my Dodge. I don't want a newer one. It's new enough that the computer kind of diagnoses it. The rest is mechanical. I have the codes and such in an old book. The only reason I haven't put historic tags on it is because I want it to get a little exercise. Everyone I know is actually a mechanic. My sons, brothers, etc. They used to make fun of me until they needed a little hand...


----------



## Pistachio's Pamperer

ZenHarper:: Yep sat through an hour of conference call yesterday about the clean clean clean part. And the how long it lives outside the body. I hope ppl are using the info to protect themselves versus flipping out.

And that was exactly what I thought. The panic led and more than likely when they get to the end of that line they are going to get turned away unless they actually appear ill. The hospital has been on a lock down for awhile now anyway, so hopefully they just have a couple of people out there suited up to turn ppl away.

Thank you for the virtual hugs. I need them.

I have to drive through that mess to get home. My job is such that I will not be on "vacation" anytime soon. 
-Meg


----------



## ZenHerper

Pistachio's Pamperer said:


> ...
> 
> I have to drive through that mess to get home. My job is such that I will not be on "vacation" anytime soon.
> -Meg



Yeah, you do the best you can. Gotta eat, gotta pay bills, gotta stay clear of the trolls and gaslighters, yadda.

*************

Speaking of cleaning up coronaviruses, here's the latest poop on poop:









Characteristics of pediatric SARS-CoV-2 infection and potential evidence for persistent fecal viral shedding - Nature Medicine


Children infected with the COVID-19 outbreak coronavirus, SARS-CoV-2, show mild symptoms but prolonged shedding of viral RNA in feces, suggesting that the fecalâ€“oral route might play a role in virus transmission.




www.nature.com





WASH YOUR HANDS, for the love of Chelonia and all cherished things!


----------



## Cathie G

Maro2Bear said:


> Baltimore, MD -We’re dealing with the COVID virus and those of you who want to continue to shoot and kill people in this city, we’re not going to tolerate it. We’re going to come after you and we’re going to get you," the Mayor said.


It's all so sad. If they were going to panic it should have been at least a couple of months ago anyway....the quarantine and cleaning will only make it die out anyway.


----------



## smarch

Toddrickfl1 said:


> Without testing everyone with symptoms I think a lot of people might just think they've got a cold and continue to go about their business further spreading it. If these same people were tested and in fact knew they had Covid 19 they'd be much more likely to isolate themselves and take precautions to not spread it.


I agree. And I know common sense isn’t that common, so it’s probably wrong of me just to assume that with the current plague being cough oriented that maybe just maybe if you had symptoms you’d think “huh, could be that highly contagious disease the world has right now maybe I should stay away from everyone” normally I’ll work through a lot of crummy feelings, but knowing this is going around any symptoms and I’d be staying far away from others.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Maro2Bear said:


> Baltimore, MD -We’re dealing with the COVID virus and those of you who want to continue to shoot and kill people in this city, we’re not going to tolerate it. We’re going to come after you and we’re going to get you," the Mayor said.


That's both sad and frightening


----------



## Maggie3fan

1289Gabe said:


> *sigh*


Why sigh? Because you think I'm a gun idiot or because I think the gun is necessary? I personally think this whole thing right now is sad...and I won't use my gun until and if the panicked people get crazed...some thieves broke into an SUV pulling a small trailer and swiped something like 100 packages of 12 rolls toilet paper...sand and funny as well...


----------



## ZEROPILOT

maggie18fan said:


> Why sigh? Because you think I'm a gun idiot or because I think the gun is necessary? I personally think this whole thing right now is sad...and I won't use my gun until and if the panicked people get crazed...some thieves broke into an SUV pulling a small trailer and swiped something like 100 packages of 12 rolls toilet paper...sand and funny as well...


Guns, religion and politics are just too hot topics.
Everyone has a side and everyone absolutely knows they're right.


----------



## Tom

Maro2Bear said:


> Baltimore, MD -We’re dealing with the COVID virus and those of you who want to continue to shoot and kill people in this city, we’re not going to tolerate it. We’re going to come after you and we’re going to get you," the Mayor said.


What the hell does any of that have to do with Covid19? Why wouldn't they go after the criminals shooting and killing people EVERY day. When there isn't a virus scare its a-okay to go around murdering people in Baltimore???

Maybe if the mayor and whoever is going to be doing the "we're going to get you" part had this attitude all the time, they wouldn't have the crime problems that they have.


----------



## queen koopa

Tom said:


> What the hell does any of that have to do with Covid19? Why wouldn't they go after the criminals shooting and killing people EVERY day. When there isn't a virus scare its a-okay to go around murdering people in Baltimore???
> 
> Maybe if the mayor and whoever is going to be doing the "we're going to get you" part had this attitude all the time, they wouldn't have the crime problems that they have.


Agreed. I feel like mayors and governors have been directed to give “intimidating” speeches over all of this..... a bit of bull s***.


----------



## Warren

Tom said:


> What the hell does any of that have to do with Covid19? Why wouldn't they go after the criminals shooting and killing people EVERY day. When there isn't a virus scare its a-okay to go around murdering people in Baltimore???
> 
> Maybe if the mayor and whoever is going to be doing the "we're going to get you" part had this attitude all the time, they wouldn't have the crime problems that they have.


Baltimore's police are to busy trying to police there own crooked politicians to worry to much about what happen in the streets of Baltimore city, Last 2 Mayor were fourst out for money scams, and one is trying to be reelected for Mayor. Prosecutor want to drop all charges for non dangerous crime cases against the criminal. Because of the importance of worrying about the Covid19, so I guess the excuse " Covid19 made me do it" is good here in Baltimore City.


----------



## smarch

maggie18fan said:


> In Oregon the governor has effectively shut down life as we know it...she even stopped truck interstate and intrastate driving except for trucks that carry necessities for the grocery stores, if you drive a log truck you are shut down...big paper rolls outa work... the necessities drivers have an increased hours of service which scares me...when I drove I was in good shape mentally and physically and constantly fabricated my log book, so I can say that after about 13 to 15 hrs of driving a big truck with all the things that involved..your driving becomes dangerous...I hate the thought of the trucking industry shutting down...because that WILL bring the nation to a halt...everything you touch in your daily life came in some form or another on a big trk...from your make up, your gas, food, to your car.


Now this is the real scary news. Off and on for the past year I’ve considered spending the money to just get my Class A, I already spend a lot of time driving (pennies to trucker mileage but I also make a lot of stops as that’s the main part of my job) and seem to have what I call “small girl large truck syndrome” and have never met a vehicle I felt was too big, also seeing all the stuff on the road I do I respect the heck out of truckers as they see far more of the crap than I do. The school near me is $6000 for the A. My first words when the state of MA effectively started the shutdown process was “damn, at least the truckers still have jobs” because I care for office plants and the boyfriend is a chef, neither of us are in very stable industries right now (he’s lucky he’s at a convenience store kitchen because all his restaurant chef friends were laid off, food trucks out of luck). But scary to hear that even truckers are being cut, though I guess here where only really grocery stores are open what else would really be getting received, who knows if our plant truck from FL will even come in this week like it’s supposed to.
Amazon is shutting down deleiveries of non-essentials to MA last I heard.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

smarch said:


> Now this is the real scary news. Off and on for the past year I’ve considered spending the money to just get my Class A, I already spend a lot of time driving (pennies to trucker mileage but I also make a lot of stops as that’s the main part of my job) and seem to have what I call “small girl large truck syndrome” and have never met a vehicle I felt was too big, also seeing all the stuff on the road I do I respect the heck out of truckers as they see far more of the crap than I do. The school near me is $6000 for the A. My first words when the state of MA effectively started the shutdown process was “damn, at least the truckers still have jobs” because I care for office plants and the boyfriend is a chef, neither of us are in very stable industries right now (he’s lucky he’s at a convenience store kitchen because all his restaurant chef friends were laid off, food trucks out of luck). But scary to hear that even truckers are being cut, though I guess here where only really grocery stores are open what else would really be getting received, who knows if our plant truck from FL will even come in this week like it’s supposed to.
> Amazon is shutting down deleiveries of non-essentials to MA last I heard.


Many jobs out there require a class A or B.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

20% of the newest U.S. hospitalized virus patients are between 20 and 55.
It seems to have mutated.


----------



## Yvonne G

Well I went out this a.m. and did my weekly shopping (and post office run). I didn't notice any difference in the traffic. Just as many cars on the road. But when I got to Smart and Final, where I buy my week's supply of produce, the parking lot was mighty full. I was able to get six heads of romaine (I normally buy seven) and seven heads of green leaf lettuce. I was able to get seven packages of collards, turnip greens, and mustard greens. There were only three zucchini, but I was able to get the usual two packages of opuntia pads. All in all the produce department looked ok. I normally buy a 12 pack of tea/lemonaid, and they didn't have any of that. In fact, the sports drink/water aisle was pretty sparse. Then I went to my grocery store - Savemart. It was a whole different story there. No milk, no bread, no eggs. So if I want to make chicken fried steak with country gravy, that's off the table for a while. Plenty of candy and chips, but I don't buy that stuff. The meat shelves were totally empty. Well, not totally, there were two packages of veggie burgers in there. And, darn it! I forgot to buy ice cream. Shoot!


----------



## ZenHerper

ZEROPILOT said:


> 20% of the newest U.S. hospitalized virus patients are between 20 and 55.
> It seems to have mutated.



Not surprising. This demographic likes to make an exception of itself and has been ignoring bans on group activities.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Yvonne G said:


> Well I went out this a.m. and did my weekly shopping (and post office run). I didn't notice any difference in the traffic. Just as many cars on the road. But when I got to Smart and Final, where I buy my week's supply of produce, the parking lot was mighty full. I was able to get six heads of romaine (I normally buy seven) and seven heads of green leaf lettuce. I was able to get seven packages of collards, turnip greens, and mustard greens. There were only three zucchini, but I was able to get the usual two packages of opuntia pads. All in all the produce department looked ok. I normally buy a 12 pack of tea/lemonaid, and they didn't have any of that. In fact, the sports drink/water aisle was pretty sparse. Then I went to my grocery store - Savemart. It was a whole different story there. No milk, no bread, no eggs. So if I want to make chicken fried steak with country gravy, that's off the table for a while. Plenty of candy and chips, but I don't buy that stuff. The meat shelves were totally empty. Well, not totally, there were two packages of veggie burgers in there. And, darn it! I forgot to buy ice cream. Shoot!


Same here.
No meat except the crappiest cuts of beef.
But I found some sausage.
I also scored some Lysol BATHROOM CLEANER that says it kills 99.9% of germs, etc. So, I figured bathroom, bedroom, kitchen, whatever.


----------



## Toddrickfl1

Talk about bad timing.


ZEROPILOT said:


> Same here.
> No meat except the crappiest cuts of beef.
> But I found some sausage.
> I also scored some Lysol BATHROOM CLEANER that says it kills 99.9% of germs, etc. So, I figured bathroom, bedroom, kitchen, whatever.


Look where the finger is pointing lol


----------



## Maggie3fan

Yvonne G said:


> Well I went out this a.m. and did my weekly shopping (and post office run). I didn't notice any difference in the traffic. Just as many cars on the road. But when I got to Smart and Final, where I buy my week's supply of produce, the parking lot was mighty full. I was able to get six heads of romaine (I normally buy seven) and seven heads of green leaf lettuce. I was able to get seven packages of collards, turnip greens, and mustard greens. There were only three zucchini, but I was able to get the usual two packages of opuntia pads. All in all the produce department looked ok. I normally buy a 12 pack of tea/lemonaid, and they didn't have any of that. In fact, the sports drink/water aisle was pretty sparse. Then I went to my grocery store - Savemart. It was a whole different story there. No milk, no bread, no eggs. So if I want to make chicken fried steak with country gravy, that's off the table for a while. Plenty of candy and chips, but I don't buy that stuff. The meat shelves were totally empty. Well, not totally, there were two packages of veggie burgers in there. And, darn it! I forgot to buy ice cream. Shoot



Well...obviously everyone has already heard my rant about the whole hoarding thing..I get paid tomorrow...my mascara died (awful...without it this old lady scares little children) the cats have turned their collective noses up at the premium garden soil...crap next to the box...so tomorrow I head to town...stay 6' away from people to buy cat toilet paper they call litter...last Saturday the shelves were empty...will there be any tomorrow? Bird seed, I buy 11 pounds for my breeding parakeets, bread and mascara...That's all...will any be there tomorrow???


----------



## queen koopa

ZEROPILOT said:


> 20% of the newest U.S. hospitalized virus patients are between 20 and 55.
> It seems to have mutated.


Mutated!? Ugh do you have any info on that?
I Hear a lot of “seems to have” or “potentially tested positive” These phrases are used to spread misinformation to masses. People already in a panic over an illness buy into that “potential tested positive” means positive. Step back and re-read the potential and realize everyone has the potential.. just means their being tested.... like tons of other people. They evacuated the Vegas airport control tower Last night for a person who “potentially tested positive”. People are behind that ridiculous decision, not a virus. I was picking my dad up from the airport last night and they were evacuating as he landed, just made it! Like really they were going to start sending planes elsewhere!?


----------



## queen koopa

Toddrickfl1 said:


> Talk about bad timing.
> Look where the finger is pointing lol
> View attachment 288436


Are those listed viruses killed by the lysol?


----------



## Toddrickfl1

queen koopa said:


> Are those listed viruses killed by the lysol?


That's what it says. I didn't mean to post the Talk about bad timing part. I don't know how that got in there.


----------



## queen koopa

Toddrickfl1 said:


> That's what it says. I didn't mean to post the Talk about bad timing part. I don't know how that got in there.


Nice. Good job lysol!


----------



## Maggie3fan

smarch said:


> Now this is the real scary news. Off and on for the past year I’ve considered spending the money to just get my Class A, I already spend a lot of time driving (pennies to trucker mileage but I also make a lot of stops as that’s the main part of my job) and seem to have what I call “small girl large truck syndrome” and have never met a vehicle I felt was too big, also seeing all the stuff on the road I do I respect the heck out of truckers as they see far more of the crap than I do. The school near me is $6000 for the A. My first words when the state of MA effectively started the shutdown process was “damn, at least the truckers still have jobs” because I care for office plants and the boyfriend is a chef, neither of us are in very stable industries right now (he’s lucky he’s at a convenience store kitchen because all his restaurant chef friends were laid off, food trucks out of luck). But scary to hear that even truckers are being cut, though I guess here where only really grocery stores are open what else would really be getting received, who knows if our plant truck from FL will even come in this week like it’s supposed to.
> Amazon is shutting down deleiveries of non-essentials to MA last I heard.



I loved driving trk..I have been in the 48 Continental states, my cat has walked on the ground in all those states...driving OTR was not a career choice...for me it was a life style...in my trk were plants, my cat, TV refrigerator, food talking books...everything I personally needed...I saw things and been places that the average person doesn't get to see or do...I can't say enough abt my life as an OTR driver...I was very good at it, and won several contests, do you have anybody who drives a big trk? They can teach you...driving school is not necessarily needed. I went to driving school on some kind of a grant, didn't cost me a dime...please don't give up on that dream...I got injured in 2003...retired me and I can't tell you how much I miss it...I won several awards beating out men (woo hoo!) in backing contests with a 53' trailer...my first award was at the Big Iowa 80 trk stop...I beat 12 men in a backing contest...I freakin loved driving and my ego made me practice and I was a damn good trk driver...circa 1980...sorry for the blurry pix


----------



## ZenHerper

queen koopa said:


> Nice. Good job lysol!


Be aware: that is for the 'original' SARS coronavirus. 

No reason to suspect that our current SARS-2 won't be killed. Just that Lysol is not claiming it does (has not tested it).


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Toddrickfl1 said:


> Talk about bad timing.
> Look where the finger is pointing lol
> View attachment 288436


I'm supposing that since COVID19 is in that family of viruses, that itll kill it.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

I got a little stir crazy and drove over to the ARBY'S drive through for the 2 for $6 fish sandwiches. They're very good. But no one was wearing gloves and we all handled cash.....
If I get this thing, it won't be much of a shocker. I need to get serious.


----------



## jaizei

ZEROPILOT said:


> I got a little stir crazy and drove over to the ARBY'S drive through for the 2 for $6 fish sandwiches. They're very good. But no one was wearing gloves and we all handled cash.....
> If I get this thing, it won't be much of a shocker. I need to get serious.




Everyday, I have my "last" fast food meal.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

jaizei said:


> Everyday, I have my "last" fast food meal.


It sure feels like everything is normal while you eat it.


----------



## smarch

maggie18fan said:


> I loved driving trk..I have been in the 48 Continental states, my cat has walked on the ground in all those states...driving OTR was not a career choice...for me it was a life style...in my trk were plants, my cat, TV refrigerator, food talking books...everything I personally needed...I saw things and been places that the average person doesn't get to see or do...I can't say enough abt my life as an OTR driver...I was very good at it, and won several contests, do you have anybody who drives a big trk? They can teach you...driving school is not necessarily needed. I went to driving school on some kind of a grant, didn't cost me a dime...please don't give up on that dream...I got injured in 2003...retired me and I can't tell you how much I miss it...I won several awards beating out men (woo hoo!) in backing contests with a 53' trailer...my first award was at the Big Iowa 80 trk stop...I beat 12 men in a backing contest...I freakin loved driving and my ego made me practice and I was a damn good trk driver...circa 1980...sorry for the blurry pix
> View attachment 288442
> View attachment 288443


I can’t say I personally know anyone, all our drivers at work are just DOT as I guess our boxes are just small enough. My cat would love the time together, he’s overly affectionate and guarantee would spend his life on the road on my lap, I’ve been on vacation and he’s loved every minute of my being home. A little while ago I actually saw a truck go by with a bunch of growing cups of cat grass growing in it and I thought that was adorable. The only thing that’s held me back is 1 I love my job on the caring for plants aspect, and also my biggest life goal is to own my own home, and if I’m always on the road I’m really not going to spend much time at the hone I want so bad. We have 1-2 truckers in our apartment complex, I haven’t seen one of the 2 in a long while, but the gaps between seeing that one are usually longer than the one that’s currently home. I would absolutely love to see the states go by as I travel. Also the whole being a lady person in what I assume to be a male dominated industry as I did work at one of the service plazas on the mass pike several years ago and don’t think I met a single woman trucker the whole time I was there, lots of angry guys when the comdata wouldn’t go through as there was traffic and they didn’t enough miles for refuel, fun times. I live for audiobooks, because of my current job, so to just listen away and drive doesn’t sound bad at all, though long drives and bathroom breaks are a little less easy as a woman. Makes me wish I could actually hook my CB up in the work van because when I was taking my own car when training I enjoyed that the most.


----------



## Maggie3fan

I just got an email from my doctors clinic. One of the drs tested positive so my PCP clinic is f'ing closed indefinitely... I am 74, have an autoimmune disease, chronic lung disease, I had tuberculosis in my 20's, so my lungs are badly scarred I have COPD and sleep apnea...I am in stage 3 kidney disease this virus 'could' kill me...and the ER is closed and my pcp is closed...and my drug store usually delivers my meds, but they are stopping delivery...my mom and pop pet store is closed so they want you to call with your order and you pay over the phone they then bring it out to your car...I have 7 birds to sell them...and now they are freakin worried about this crap and I have to call them in 3 damn weeks and they will know then if they are gonna take the chance about my birds. I go to town tomorrow, so don't look at me... stay 6 ft away from me...don't f*** with me...my cane is solid maple and it makes a great protection weapon...all the sudden, where before I knew I was tough and worried more about the people panic, I'm starting to be afraid that I might catch this thing and get sick...or be barricaded in my house and miss out on what life I have left...


----------



## Maggie3fan

smarch said:


> I can’t say I personally know anyone, all our drivers at work are just DOT as I guess our boxes are just small enough. My cat would love the time together, he’s overly affectionate and guarantee would spend his life on the road on my lap, I’ve been on vacation and he’s loved every minute of my being home. A little while ago I actually saw a truck go by with a bunch of growing cups of cat grass growing in it and I thought that was adorable. The only thing that’s held me back is 1 I love my job on the caring for plants aspect, and also my biggest life goal is to own my own home, and if I’m always on the road I’m really not going to spend much time at the hone I want so bad. We have 1-2 truckers in our apartment complex, I haven’t seen one of the 2 in a long while, but the gaps between seeing that one are usually longer than the one that’s currently home. I would absolutely love to see the states go by as I travel. Also the whole being a lady person in what I assume to be a male dominated industry as I did work at one of the service plazas on the mass pike several years ago and don’t think I met a single woman trucker the whole time I was there, lots of angry guys when the comdata wouldn’t go through as there was traffic and they didn’t enough miles for refuel, fun times. I live for audiobooks, because of my current job, so to just listen away and drive doesn’t sound bad at all, though long drives and bathroom breaks are a little less easy as a woman. Makes me wish I could actually hook my CB up in the work van because when I was taking my own car when training I enjoyed that the most.



I was able to get my own home because of the money I earned driving. True there aren't many women drivers...but please don't let that stop you...AND... I had a small hard plastic waste basket and 1 gallon baggies...I didn't use public restrooms...so put that together...The only real problems I had was in the South..
white rednecks mostly...(hey b**** why aren't you in the kitchen cooking for your husband,..etc) and if there were good old boys who checked in for loading or unloading after me...they most times took those trks before me...my name on the CB was Sweekie Wheel...I bitched loud enuf and long enuf that my company told'em if that practice continued they would stop their trks from coming there...


----------



## ZippyButter

Yvonne G said:


> Well I went out this a.m. and did my weekly shopping (and post office run). I didn't notice any difference in the traffic. Just as many cars on the road. But when I got to Smart and Final, where I buy my week's supply of produce, the parking lot was mighty full. I was able to get six heads of romaine (I normally buy seven) and seven heads of green leaf lettuce. I was able to get seven packages of collards, turnip greens, and mustard greens. There were only three zucchini, but I was able to get the usual two packages of opuntia pads. All in all the produce department looked ok. I normally buy a 12 pack of tea/lemonaid, and they didn't have any of that. In fact, the sports drink/water aisle was pretty sparse. Then I went to my grocery store - Savemart. It was a whole different story there. No milk, no bread, no eggs. So if I want to make chicken fried steak with country gravy, that's off the table for a while. Plenty of candy and chips, but I don't buy that stuff. The meat shelves were totally empty. Well, not totally, there were two packages of veggie burgers in there. And, darn it! I forgot to buy ice cream. Shoot!


Did you forget the "coronanita"??


----------



## Toddrickfl1




----------



## mark1

ZEROPILOT said:


> Remember the Email/Facebook post that went out from a "friend" who knew a high ranking CDC member? They had tips on how to know that you don't have the virus and how to prevent it?
> All known to be false, now.


seems like everyone want to know someone …….. I apparently knew a lot of folks who know a lot of "high up" people , i never knew that before this , they're info has proven to be pretty shoddy though …........... went food shopping after work , looks like everybody got what they needed , there was food to be bought , I tried like every night after work , this was the first time since last Friday ........ guy at work filled 2 freezers , one went out , he tried to buy another , none to be bought .........


----------



## Cathie G

Connie Jo said:


> I have a 12 pack of toilet paper & hand sanitizer I’m willing to trade for a ‘69 Mustang


Oh my garsh. So do I. I have one of each! But the 12 pack ain't going nowhere.


----------



## Maggie3fan

no gatherings of more than 10 people now...I don't even know 10 people...story...a neighbor down the street saw me planting Dahlias in my yard...I don't really know him except for saying some hellos...he says "I have 2..12 roll packages of Charmin to trade for some weed... I said "no thanks...I have t-paper..." sorry if I'm repeating myself...but I'm used to weed being against the law...and I thought this was a slightly strange and funny...


----------



## Maggie3fan

maggie18fan said:


> Went in to town yesterday...our governor passed a bill that there cannot be a gathering of over 250 people in Oregon...I live in a small town, they are 10 cases of actual virus. Schools are cancelled, all the athletic events cancelled, people are freaked out...I stocked up on Stoffers, and soda...there was no rice, beans, or pasta, I literally got the last 4 freakin rolls of t paper...this is a town so small that I have the only red IROC and everybody knows it...there isn't even a Wendys here...but we got the freakin virus??? People are panicked wearing masks at the store...I didn't need a mask as I dislike most people and don't ever get close enough to one that they could cough on me. Crap.
> 
> 
> Here as well...now it's hit home and starting to get scary...


For me too...


----------



## ZenHerper

Latest: @maggie18fan is now talking to herself. 




New Jersey's infection rate is exponential. A defunct hospital is being re-opened, pending some upgrades and inspections.


----------



## Cathie G

ZEROPILOT said:


> 20% of the newest U.S. hospitalized virus patients are between 20 and 55.
> It seems to have mutated.


Yeah they were saying, "don't worry to much it usually just kills the elderly and disabled, vulnerable people."....


----------



## Toddrickfl1

maggie18fan said:


> no gatherings of more than 10 people now...I don't even know 10 people...story...a neighbor down the street saw me planting Dahlias in my yard...I don't really know him except for saying some hellos...he says "I have 2..12 roll packages of Charmin to trade for some weed... I said "no thanks...I have t-paper..." sorry if I'm repeating myself...but I'm used to weed being against the law...and I thought this was a slightly strange and funny...


Tell him this ain't the 90s anymore, he's going to have to come up with more than 2 packs of TP! LOL


----------



## Maggie3fan

ZenHerper said:


> Latest: @maggie18fan is now talking to herself.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> New Jersey's infection rate is exponential. A defunct hospital is being re-opened, pending some upgrades and inspections.





ZenHerper said:


> Latest: @maggie18fan is now talking to herself.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> New Jersey's infection rate is exponential. A defunct hospital is being re-opened, pending some upgrades and inspections.



Ok after I stopped laughing I looked to see what you meant...I freakin know that YOU clicked on expand...going away laughing...and I do talk out loud to myself...cuz I can't hear now...it's the most interesting conversation that I have...?


----------



## JoeWells

San Luis Obispo county, CA. Mandatory shelter in home rule tonight at 5 until further notice. Not supposed to go anywhere you have human contact, minus a few exceptions (grocery store, doctor, pharmacy, etc) Unless you have a job at one of the above, no work as well. If your caught mingling with others it can be a misdemeanor and/or fine. I’m sure they’re not going to enforce it too strictly at the beginning but this is getting serious.
Online schooling for my daughter, I’m realizing how much I forgot that I learned in school and she’s only in third grade! I’m screwed once she gets to high school. I’m hoping she’s gunna be a genius and will never need help with her math homework. Shellvis is just having a blast eating and pooping like nothings going on. Good times to be a tort.


----------



## ZenHerper

maggie18fan said:


> Ok after I stopped laughing I looked to see what you meant...I freakin know that YOU clicked on expand...going away laughing...and I do talk out loud to myself...cuz I can't hear now...it's the most interesting conversation that I have...?



You both have so much in common! 


Of course, people who talk to themselves are better at, well, stuff...









It doesn’t mean you’re crazy –- talking to yourself has cognitive benefits, study finds


Most people talk to themselves at least every few days, and many report talking to themselves on an hourly basis. What purpose is served by this seemingly irrational behavior? Previous research has suggested that such self-directed speech in children can help guide their behavior. For example...



www.sciencedaily.com













Talking to Yourself Out Loud May Be a Sign of Higher Intelligence, Find Researchers


A new study shows how talking to yourself may help your brain perform better.




bigthink.com


----------



## queen koopa

JoeWells said:


> San Luis Obispo county, CA. Mandatory shelter in home rule tonight at 5 until further notice. Not supposed to go anywhere you have human contact, minus a few exceptions (grocery store, doctor, pharmacy, etc) Unless you have a job at one of the above, no work as well. If your caught mingling with others it can be a misdemeanor and/or fine. I’m sure they’re not going to enforce it too strictly at the beginning but this is getting serious.
> Online schooling for my daughter, I’m realizing how much I forgot that I learned in school and she’s only in third grade! I’m screwed once she gets to high school. I’m hoping she’s gunna be a genius and will never need help with her math homework. Shellvis is just having a blast eating and pooping like nothings going on. Good times to be a tort.


Thats a bit much San Luis Obispo....


----------



## Pistachio's Pamperer

And this is what happens to yr hand when you tell _a customer no about something right now. I was attacked for doing my job. And no witness so cop basically said too bad so sad. And I am not a job that will be sent home anytime soon. We rank essential/critical. 

So yeah ask me how much I like ppl right now. 

-Meg_


----------



## JoeWells

Pistachio's Pamperer said:


> And this is what happens to yr hand when you tell _a customer no about something right now. I was attacked for doing my job. And no witness so cop basically said too bad so sad. And I am not a job that will be sent home anytime soon. We rank essential/critical. Kind of curious about the details, unless it’s none of my business
> 
> So yeah ask me how much I like ppl right now.
> 
> -Meg_


----------



## ZenHerper

Pistachio's Pamperer said:


> And this is what happens to yr hand when you tell _a customer no about something right now. I was attacked for doing my job. And no witness so cop basically said too bad so sad. And I am not a job that will be sent home anytime soon. We rank essential/critical.
> 
> So yeah ask me how much I like ppl right now.
> 
> -Meg_



That is really awful.

((Hugs))


----------



## VegasJeff

Tom said:


> My auto mechanic and the manager of this particular station. Factual basis? The manager said "We are 1000 gallons down, and we don't plan on refilling when its empty."



That doesn't make sense. With lower prices, you think they would want to fill up. If prices go up, it would be a good investment.

However, someone told me that food shortages developed because the truckers were being limited. Those limitations supposedly have been removed. Not sure of the details. Who know's the truth?


----------



## Tom

VegasJeff said:


> That doesn't make sense. With lower prices, you think they would want to fill up. If prices go up, it would be a good investment.
> 
> However, someone told me that food shortages developed because the truckers were being limited. Those limitations supposedly have been removed. Not sure of the details. Who know's the truth?


Its a confusing mess right now. So much misinformation and so many different stories circulating around.


----------



## VegasJeff

Meanwhile, in Las Vegas, the situation continues to get worse. The governor ordered a shutdown of all non-essential businesses for 30 days. This includes all casinos, barbers, nail salons, malls, clothing stores, etc. Coronavirus cases are increasing but the numbers are very small compared to other places.

Grocery stores are now limiting the number of people that can enter at one time and very long lines can be seen for people waiting outside with parking lots filled up. I'm guessing a hour wait in line if you want a chance to go into a grocery store that may not have much stock. Supposedly, if you can get certain items like toilet paper, etc. there are now limits of 2 per person. Some grocery stores reserve the first hour of shopping for the elderly and pregnant women. For restaurants, it is no longer allowed to dine-in, only pickup, drive through or delivery allowed.

I'm starting to get concerned, with a lot of people not working, what will happen when things start getting financially tight for them or when they run out of money. 

I'm also getting worried about the food supply. They say there's no shortage of food out there but why does it seem like it keeps getting harder and harder to get food?!?


----------



## queen koopa

VegasJeff said:


> Who know's the truth?


Yes!


----------



## Maggie3fan

ZenHerper said:


> You both have so much in common!
> 
> 
> Of course, people who talk to themselves are better at, well, stuff...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It doesn’t mean you’re crazy –- talking to yourself has cognitive benefits, study finds
> 
> 
> Most people talk to themselves at least every few days, and many report talking to themselves on an hourly basis. What purpose is served by this seemingly irrational behavior? Previous research has suggested that such self-directed speech in children can help guide their behavior. For example...
> 
> 
> 
> www.sciencedaily.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Talking to Yourself Out Loud May Be a Sign of Higher Intelligence, Find Researchers
> 
> 
> A new study shows how talking to yourself may help your brain perform better.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bigthink.com



I am so cracking up at you that a laughing emojie or whatever they are called just is not funny enough...I don't mind being picked on, or insulted as long as it's funny and not mean...I can take it...LMAOROF figure that one out...


----------



## queen koopa

Pistachio's Pamperer said:


> And this is what happens to yr hand when you tell _a customer no about something right now. I was attacked for doing my job. And no witness so cop basically said too bad so sad. And I am not a job that will be sent home anytime soon. We rank essential/critical.
> 
> So yeah ask me how much I like ppl right now.
> 
> -Meg_


Man!! I’m that pisses me off. ??


----------



## Maggie3fan

VegasJeff said:


> That doesn't make sense. With lower prices, you think they would want to fill up. If prices go up, it would be a good investment.
> 
> However, someone told me that food shortages developed because the truckers were being limited. Those limitations supposedly have been removed. Not sure of the details. Who know's the truth?



Trucks carrying non essential stuff, like log trks, paper, and the like are shut down...The trks hauling any of the essentials like the infamous t-paper, meds, food, CAT LITTER well,maybe not cat litter...essential trucks have an increase in hours of service...that means tired stressed truck drivers will be dangerous on the road...I was en experienced OTR driver and I know after 15 hours of pulling a fully loaded 53' trailer with all that entails, you are only capable of holding on to the steering wheel...ya can't even think...and don't come down on me...I was in good shape physically and mentally...and I manufactured log book regularly now they are electronic...I'm not sure how you can cheat on them...


----------



## Maggie3fan

JoeWells said:


> San Luis Obispo county, CA. Mandatory shelter in home rule tonight at 5 until further notice. Not supposed to go anywhere you have human contact, minus a few exceptions (grocery store, doctor, pharmacy, etc) Unless you have a job at one of the above, no work as well. If your caught mingling with others it can be a misdemeanor and/or fine. I’m sure they’re not going to enforce it too strictly at the beginning but this is getting serious.
> Online schooling for my daughter, I’m realizing how much I forgot that I learned in school and she’s only in third grade! I’m screwed once she gets to high school. I’m hoping she’s gunna be a genius and will never need help with her math homework. Shellvis is just having a blast eating and pooping like nothings going on. Good times to be a tort.



Damn, Oregon is getting that way too...but not so bad yet like Calif...my family lives in SLO and Pismo...it's beginning to look like I won't be driving down on April 1st...port of entry in CA is stopping cars and trks at that point unless you can prove why you are trying to get in Calif and it's critical they are turning people away...I thought I'd just use a 2 lane...no poe there...but maybe I just shouldn't go


----------



## Maggie3fan

queen koopa said:


> Man!! I’m that pisses me off. ??



me too!!! I wish I was there to hit'em with my cane...


----------



## Turtulas-Len

Just heard that the California Governor has ordered a stay at home order for the entire State starting at midnight.


----------



## Tom

Turtulas-Len said:


> Just heard that the California Governor has ordered a stay at home order for the entire State starting at midnight.


I don't take orders from lunatic idiots.


----------



## JoeWells

maggie18fan said:


> Damn, Oregon is getting that way too...but not so bad yet like Calif...my family lives in SLO and Pismo...it's beginning to look like I won't be driving down on April 1st...port of entry in CA is stopping cars and trks at that point unless you can prove why you are trying to get in Calif and it's critical they are turning people away...I thought I'd just use a 2 lane...no poe there...but maybe I just shouldn't go


Governor just a few mins ago said it’s state wide now. Projection numbers say 19,000+ people will need hospitalization if this goes on as it is. We only have enough beds for somewhere around 10,000. I’m sure you’d be able to get down here if you said your going to take care of an elder relative or something. It’s not too fun in CA right now though. It’s a good time to go camping out in the boonies somewhere


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Tom said:


> I don't take orders from lunatic idiots.


Sounds like part of an X wife story....


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Groceries are now operating early for just seniors and those that are physically impaired so that they can buy things that more able bodied (and greedy) customers are fighting over.
Keep your ears open to the needs of your neighbors. Some people are just not prepared. And helping people out feels pretty fantastic.


----------



## Tom

ZEROPILOT said:


> And helping people out feels pretty fantastic.



So you're saying I shouldn't go "Neener neener neener..." to the people who made fun of me for being a prepper and learning some survival skills?

Is it still okay to refer to them as grasshoppers?


----------



## EllieMay

maggie18fan said:


> You miss understood me...how in the heck...do you know this...I am 74, been driving since I was 16...and to my knowledge, even tho most people dislike me...nobody has ever peed in my tank...


Lmao! I have never experienced this first hand either but I have heard a few people threaten to do it when they’ve been severely pissed .


----------



## EllieMay

Toddrickfl1 said:


> I think it's more widespread than they're telling us. I know of 3 people who have symptoms similar to Covid 19, one a family member, and none of them have been able to get tested. They are only testing people who have recently left the country or if you know for sure you've come in contact with someone with it. I don't see how they plan on stopping this if they aren't testing folks with the symptoms.


 My sister was sent to work in a “corona virus” clinic yesterday... she said that the clinic was only allotted 3 tests. They have a certain criteria that symptomatic people have to meet. If they do, she then has to coordinate with the CDC and health department to get the actual order to use a test.. there were many “presumptive positives” that did not qualify for tests but still had to be hospitalized or quarantined....


----------



## EllieMay

queen koopa said:


> Mutated!? Ugh do you have any info on that?
> I Hear a lot of “seems to have” or “potentially tested positive” These phrases are used to spread misinformation to masses. People already in a panic over an illness buy into that “potential tested positive” means positive. Step back and re-read the potential and realize everyone has the potential.. just means their being tested.... like tons of other people. They evacuated the Vegas airport control tower Last night for a person who “potentially tested positive”. People are behind that ridiculous decision, not a virus. I was picking my dad up from the airport last night and they were evacuating as he landed, just made it! Like really they were going to start sending planes elsewhere!?



in the medical field, “potentially positive” is used for the person who has all the symptoms but isn’t able to actually have a test... the government F”d up when they set up all the drive thru testing sites and used the tests for anyone who just wanted to drive thru... now they can’t get enough for those who actually need them...


----------



## EllieMay

ZEROPILOT said:


> Sounds like part of an X wife story....


??? that’s funny stuff Ed! Everyone should have a learning experience like that ?


----------



## Toddrickfl1

EllieMay said:


> in the medical field, “potentially positive” is used for the person who has all the symptoms but isn’t able to actually have a test... the government F”d up when they set up all the drive thru testing sites and used the tests for anyone who just wanted to drive thru... now they can’t get enough for those who actually need them...


Yep, even though I tested positive for the flu, they've labeled me potentially positive and the doctor has ordered a 2 week isolation.


----------



## EllieMay

Toddrickfl1 said:


> Yep, even though I tested positive for the flu, they've labeled me potentially positive and the doctor has ordered a 2 week isolation.


Flu, corona, whatever...... just stay safe!!! There’s worse things than being stuck at home with Murphy & Marge!
I’ll send you some soup if you need;-)


----------



## Turtulas-Len

EllieMay said:


> in the medical field, “potentially positive” is used for the person who has all the symptoms but isn’t able to actually have a test... the government F”d up when they set up all the drive thru testing sites and used the tests for anyone who just wanted to drive thru... now they can’t get enough for those who actually need them...


The way I understand it is that you need a referral or prescription from a doctor to get the drive thru test.


----------



## Toddrickfl1

EllieMay said:


> Flu, corona, whatever...... just stay safe!!! There’s worse things than being stuck at home with Murphy & Marge!
> I’ll send you some soup if you need;-)


True, the Torts could care less


----------



## Toddrickfl1

EllieMay said:


> Flu, corona, whatever...... just stay safe!!! There’s worse things than being stuck at home with Murphy & Marge!
> I’ll send you some soup if you need;-)


When the doctor said it could possibly be Coronavirus I told him that's impossible, I've got over 200 rolls of toilet paper and 40 cases of Costco water at the house......


----------



## Cathie G

ZenHerper said:


> You both have so much in common!
> 
> 
> Of course, people who talk to themselves are better at, well, stuff...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It doesn’t mean you’re crazy –- talking to yourself has cognitive benefits, study finds
> 
> 
> Most people talk to themselves at least every few days, and many report talking to themselves on an hourly basis. What purpose is served by this seemingly irrational behavior? Previous research has suggested that such self-directed speech in children can help guide their behavior. For example...
> 
> 
> 
> www.sciencedaily.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Talking to Yourself Out Loud May Be a Sign of Higher Intelligence, Find Researchers
> 
> 
> A new study shows how talking to yourself may help your brain perform better.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bigthink.com


I kinda think you are just thinking out loud. At least I hope so...?cause I've been doing it for years. Sometimes it sounds so stupid I realize I should rethink it.


----------



## Cathie G

maggie18fan said:


> Trucks carrying non essential stuff, like log trks, paper, and the like are shut down...The trks hauling any of the essentials like the infamous t-paper, meds, food, CAT LITTER well,maybe not cat litter...essential trucks have an increase in hours of service...that means tired stressed truck drivers will be dangerous on the road...I was en experienced OTR driver and I know after 15 hours of pulling a fully loaded 53' trailer with all that entails, you are only capable of holding on to the steering wheel...ya can't even think...and don't come down on me...I was in good shape physically and mentally...and I manufactured log book regularly now they are electronic...I'm not sure how you can cheat on them...


Yes, and just think of the grocery store clerks and the medical profession. Those people have to keep trying because of their dedication. Yet, the reason they've had to change their hours of operation is because store clerks were being attacked while trying to stock what had been delivered by tired truck drivers. I hope they all don't get so fed up they change professions...


----------



## ZenHerper

Cathie G said:


> I kinda think you are just thinking out loud. At least I hope so...?cause I've been doing it for years. Sometimes it sounds so stupid I realize I should rethink it.



Well I think a lot of what goes on there is bringing all ideas, conscious and unconscious, to the front of our awareness. Then the real-time info processors can actively engage what we already know with what is currently taking place. Our brains are wired for information to come in through the ears, so it is a real kind of signal boost for mental processing.

That studies are finding coincidence of audible self-talk with higher intelligence is the nya-nya on the cake whenever someone rolls their eyes while you're doing it!


----------



## Maggie3fan

Toddrickfl1 said:


> When the doctor said it could possibly be Coronavirus I told him that's impossible, I've got over 200 rolls of toilet paper and 40 cases of Costco water at the house......


 So that's why I couldn't find any t-paper...? oh man...My church is closed...but they're sending members around to check on us seniors, and they brought me 10 rolls of t-paper...without me asking...I live in a smallish town with students from OSU as most of our population...musta opened the door of all the old folks homes tho to come to the store, cuz they did and were just as stupid acting like the hoarders...Hell I took 2 big things of cat litter from the 6 they had...that's the only hoarding I did...Oregon borders are now closed, the b***h governor is trying to implement a 3 week mandatory house arrest...go into town you'll get arrested or get a ticket unless you can prove an urgent thing. I am sly and could use a 2 lane to go to visit my family on the California coast...2 lanes don't have a POE...but in a closed state with outta state plates would cause me to get in maybe more trouble than I need. That trip is cancelled, now I am getting afraid I won't get to see my family and my sister before she or I dies...So as usual when I'm upset or sad...I go play with Big Sam and Knobby...oh and it now looks like she's going to enact Marshall law, the National Guard is gathering less than 2 miles from my house...and what used to be normal people assaulted Meg and damaged her hand..that enrages me...so I'm gonna go take a few antidepressants and go outside...


----------



## Pistachio's Pamperer

YAY!!! Glad to see Maggie home safe and sound. 

It's all good. My typing is just slowed now. And it's a delightful shade of purple! 

I have had 5 incidents this week at work where police have had to be called. And let me tell you the cops here aren't impressing me. I'm beginning to think I should start taking notes and write a book after this. LOL.. The stories I could tell. 

-Meg


----------



## Cathie G

ZenHerper said:


> Well I think a lot of what goes on there is bringing all ideas, conscious and unconscious, to the front of our awareness. Then the real-time info processors can actively engage what we already know with what is currently taking place. Our brains are wired for information to come in through the ears, so it is a real kind of signal boost for mental processing.
> 
> That studies are finding coincidence of audible self-talk with higher intelligence is the nya-nya on the cake whenever someone rolls their eyes while you're doing it!


Yep... an idea that's actually spoken is remembered easier. That's why I always try to brain storm with the people around me. If they disagree that's good too. It takes negative and positive to come up with a real truth. Most people think I'm nuts but my kids are used to it. Now they're doing it to me.????


----------



## Toddrickfl1

Not sure why but we've had military helicopters flying around off and on since last night here.


----------



## ZenHerper

Toddrickfl1 said:


> Not sure why but we've had military helicopters flying around off and on since last night here.



New Jersey is covered with military installations, so we're pretty used to convoys, etc.. They have been visibly on the move, but no one makes too much of it.

Of course, if the feds did invade us, we'd be the last to know...


----------



## Maggie3fan

Toddrickfl1 said:


> Not sure why but we've had military helicopters flying around off and on since last night here.



Gonna be Marshall Law...or ya got a murder running around your neighborhood


----------



## Maro2Bear

Good website by Johns Hopkins tracking Corona.. Confirmed cases up 2,500 since this morning. & climbing.









COVID-19 Map - Johns Hopkins Coronavirus Resource Center


Coronavirus COVID-19 Global Cases by the Center for Systems Science and Engineering (CSSE) at Johns Hopkins University (JHU)




coronavirus.jhu.edu


----------



## Cathie G

maggie18fan said:


> So that's why I couldn't find any t-paper...? oh man...My church is closed...but they're sending members around to check on us seniors, and they brought me 10 rolls of t-paper...without me asking...I live in a smallish town with students from OSU as most of our population...musta opened the door of all the old folks homes tho to come to the store, cuz they did and were just as stupid acting like the hoarders...Hell I took 2 big things of cat litter from the 6 they had...that's the only hoarding I did...Oregon borders are now closed, the b***h governor is trying to implement a 3 week mandatory house arrest...go into town you'll get arrested or get a ticket unless you can prove an urgent thing. I am sly and could use a 2 lane to go to visit my family on the California coast...2 lanes don't have a POE...but in a closed state with outta state plates would cause me to get in maybe more trouble than I need. That trip is cancelled, now I am getting afraid I won't get to see my family and my sister before she or I dies...So as usual when I'm upset or sad...I go play with Big Sam and Knobby...oh and it now looks like she's going to enact Marshall law, the National Guard is gathering less than 2 miles from my house...and what used to be normal people assaulted Meg and damaged her hand..that enrages me...so I'm gonna go take a few antidepressants and go outside...


That's why I think the number of cases in Ohio can't possibly be so low. We have OSU and some major airports. Probably a lot of people have already recovered though. Some maybe not and it was chalked up as they had health problems and caught a cold. I don't go out anymore then I have to anyway so I don't feel to much deprived. I've always used distilled water in my humidifiers and can't get that so far. I can always use tap water though. I have tp, paper towels, soap, hot water, food, hand sanitizer etc...people are being so stupid and spending all of their money on stuff that might take years to use. I'm picturing people in houses so full of stuff...that they have to camp out in a tent with a gun...to protect their stuff in the house.?


----------



## Yvonne G

Cathie G said:


> That's why I think the number of cases in Ohio can't possibly be so low. We have OSU and some major airports. Probably a lot of people have already recovered though. Some maybe not and it was chalked up as they had health problems and caught a cold. I don't go out anymore then I have to anyway so I don't feel to much deprived. I've always used distilled water in my humidifiers and can't get that so far. I can always use tap water though. I have tp, paper towels, soap, hot water, food, hand sanitizer etc...people are being so stupid and spending all of their money on stuff that might take years to use. I'm picturing people in houses so full of stuff...that they have to camp out in a tent with a gun...to protect their stuff in the house.?


. . . or if their house ever catches fire it'll smolder for weeks with all that T- paper!!


----------



## NorCal tortoise guy

Cathie G said:


> Yep... an idea that's actually spoken is remembered easier. That's why I always try to brain storm with the people around me. If they disagree that's good too. It takes negative and positive to come up with a real truth. Most people think I'm nuts but my kids are used to it. Now they're doing it to me.????


I’ve always done that I often wonder if the people around me are getting tired of hearing by hair brained ideas haha


----------



## Macca33

Hi to everyone- I hope you are all staying safe and healthy (or at least sticking to the flu  ) Haven't seen any updates for MN on this thread, so thought I'd chime in. here is the scenario as of today, virus-wise:


Gas prices have been reported as low as $1.50 a gal. All schools are closed and most if not all have switched over to "remote learning"/online classes. My wife is a middle school teacher and they have been working this week on getting lessons and plans together to start teaching virtually on Monday the 23rd. Most teachers are working from their homes. My wife and I are working from home and have our 2 year-old home with us. I'm a Mental Health Practitioner and have been trying my best to get all my clients access to telemed... it's been an adjustment for sure.

Other people/professions are working from home/remotely if possible, and many companies are attempting to transition their employees who currently report to work, to work from home. Most people are staying indoors and quarantining themselves and limiting social contact.
Gov order the following closures
The full list of closures are as follows:

Restaurants, food courts, cafes, coffeehouses, and other places of public accommodation offering food or beverage for on-premises consumption, excluding institutional or in-house food cafeterias that serve residents, employees, and clients of businesses, child care facilities, hospitals, and long-term care facilities.
Bars, taverns, brew pubs, breweries, microbreweries, distilleries, wineries, tasting rooms, clubs, and other places of public accommodation offering alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption.
Hookah bars, cigar bars, and vaping lounges offering their products for on-premises consumption.
Theaters, cinemas, indoor and outdoor performance venues, and museums.
Gymnasiums, fitness centers, recreation centers, indoor sports facilities, indoor exercise facilities, exercise studios, and spas.
Amusement parks, arcades, bingo halls, bowling alleys, indoor climbing facilities, skating rinks, trampoline parks, and other similar recreational or entertainment facilities.
Country clubs, golf clubs, boating or yacht clubs, sports or athletic clubs, and dining clubs.
In the stores.... forget about trying to find many cleaning supplies or hand sanitizers. TP is VERY hard to find, or impossible. Most stores sell out within an hour of opening and/or within an hour of shipment. Grocery stores seem to be getting the food people need in stock, but often items are missing or are sold out quickly: Paper goods, canned goods, dry goods, etc. I must say, considering the circumstances, the stores and their employees are doing a good job of keeping stocked despite the panic shopping. It's not uncommon to see empty shelves although that seems to be waning for now.... 

I'm considering filling up some of my gas containers for the mower, etc. early this year... JIC. I don't know what's going on with gas but it might be a good idea. Since TP is so hard to find, I've finally hooked up the bidet I bought my wife for Christmas three years ago (we moved two years ago and I just hadn't installed the outlet for it yet, lol). I have to say... if you can get your hands on a nice unit go for it! Heated seat, heated spray, and heated dryer. The only thing it doesn't do is give you a spank on the bottom when you're done 

Basically, like others on this forum, we are just trying to be prepared and staying calm. No sense in panicking. No need to hoard. We have a number of relatives whose immune systems are compromised and we are helping them get what they need and making sure they are playing it safe.

Oh, and Raph doesn't care what's going on as long as he can watch the action: 





Be well and be safe everyone!!
?


----------



## queen koopa

Macca33 said:


> Hi to everyone- I hope you are all staying safe and healthy (or at least sticking to the flu  ) Haven't seen any updates for MN on this thread, so thought I'd chime in. here is the scenario as of today, virus-wise:
> View attachment 288495
> 
> Gas prices have been reported as low as $1.50 a gal.  All schools are closed and most if not all have switched over to "remote learning"/online classes. My wife is a middle school teacher and they have been working this week on getting lessons and plans together to start teaching virtually on Monday the 23rd. Most teachers are working from their homes. My wife and I are working from home and have our 2 year-old home with us. I'm a Mental Health Practitioner and have been trying my best to get all my clients access to telemed... it's been an adjustment for sure.
> 
> Other people/professions are working from home/remotely if possible, and many companies are attempting to transition their employees who currently report to work, to work from home. Most people are staying indoors and quarantining themselves and limiting social contact.
> Gov order the following closures
> The full list of closures are as follows:
> 
> Restaurants, food courts, cafes, coffeehouses, and other places of public accommodation offering food or beverage for on-premises consumption, excluding institutional or in-house food cafeterias that serve residents, employees, and clients of businesses, child care facilities, hospitals, and long-term care facilities.
> Bars, taverns, brew pubs, breweries, microbreweries, distilleries, wineries, tasting rooms, clubs, and other places of public accommodation offering alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption.
> Hookah bars, cigar bars, and vaping lounges offering their products for on-premises consumption.
> Theaters, cinemas, indoor and outdoor performance venues, and museums.
> Gymnasiums, fitness centers, recreation centers, indoor sports facilities, indoor exercise facilities, exercise studios, and spas.
> Amusement parks, arcades, bingo halls, bowling alleys, indoor climbing facilities, skating rinks, trampoline parks, and other similar recreational or entertainment facilities.
> Country clubs, golf clubs, boating or yacht clubs, sports or athletic clubs, and dining clubs.
> In the stores.... forget about trying to find many cleaning supplies or hand sanitizers. TP is VERY hard to find, or impossible. Most stores sell out within an hour of opening and/or within an hour of shipment. Grocery stores seem to be getting the food people need in stock, but often items are missing or are sold out quickly: Paper goods, canned goods, dry goods, etc. I must say, considering the circumstances, the stores and their employees are doing a good job of keeping stocked despite the panic shopping. It's not uncommon to see empty shelves although that seems to be waning for now....
> 
> I'm considering filling up some of my gas containers for the mower, etc. early this year... JIC. I don't know what's going on with gas but it might be a good idea. Since TP is so hard to find, I've finally hooked up the bidet I bought my wife for Christmas three years ago (we moved two years ago and I just hadn't installed the outlet for it yet, lol). I have to say... if you can get your hands on a nice unit go for it! Heated seat, heated spray, and heated dryer. The only thing it doesn't do is give you a spank on the bottom when you're done
> 
> Basically, like others on this forum, we are just trying to be prepared and staying calm. No sense in panicking. No need to hoard. We have a number of relatives whose immune systems are compromised and we are helping them get what they need and making sure they are playing it safe.
> 
> Oh, and Raph doesn't care what's going on as long as he can watch the action:
> View attachment 288496
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Be well and be safe everyone!!
> ?


Do they break down those confirmed corona virus cases to which are actually #19#?


----------



## queen koopa

The more tests being done finds more infected humans because it is spreading or is it is that it has been here for a number of time we cannot determine? I know several people who had very strong immune reactions (flue symptoms) in the past year who did not go to the dr., my 68 yr old father included. Took him almost 3 weeks to heal. Started as a very dry cough, then turned nasty in the lungs. He stayed home the entire time. Good to go now. What was that? Around the Holidays we had a ton of people out sick at work..... like being sent home. All this just reminds me of what we face every day.


----------



## ZenHerper

queen koopa said:


> The more tests being done finds more infected humans because it is spreading or is it is that it has been here for a number of time we cannot determine? I know several people who had very strong immune reactions (flue symptoms) in the past year who did not go to the dr., my 68 yr old father included. Took him almost 3 weeks to heal. Started as a very dry cough, then turned nasty in the lungs. He stayed home the entire time. Good to go now. What was that? Around the Holidays we had a ton of people out sick at work..... like being sent home. All this just reminds me of what we face every day.



This virus originated in its human-infective form in a very specific part of China in December 2019. Covid-(20)19 has symptoms in common with other illnesses, but when severe it is the lungs that are primarily affected.

Epidemiologists, doctors, and other scientists have been gathering specific facts. Organizations like the U.S. CDC, the U.S. NIH, and the World Health Organization (WHO) have been compiling this information in easy-to-read formats. Please don't rely on rumors or political rhetoric; go to a legitimate source of scientific, medical data.









Coronavirus disease (COVID-19)


Latest update 13 May 2021 - WHO is continuously monitoring and responding to this pandemic. This Q&A will be updated as more is known about COVID-19, how it spreads and how it is affecting people worldwide. For more information, regularly check the WHO coronavirus pages...




www.who.int





Yes, if we managed the annual influenza season in the U.S. more rationally and pro-socially, fewer people would die from flu. As long as minimum wage levels are not living wages, people will continue to have no choice but to work when sick. As long as people are penalized for staying home with sick children, those children will be put on buses and sent to school with compromised immune function.


----------



## Cathie G

VegasJeff said:


> Out here in Las Vegas, about half the shelfs are empty in grocery stores. We are missing a lot of the stuff like Paper Products, Rice, Beans, Bottled Water. It was just dry goods but now shortages are starting to creep into fresh foods. No Russell Potatoes when we went to the grocery store today.
> 
> This whole thing seems crazy like I’m living in a war zone or the zombie apocalypse. The only disease traveling faster than the coronavirus right now is mass hysteria it seems.
> 
> I feel like I’m gonna have to start hoarding to defend myself against the mass hoarders. I need to order dog food tomorrow as I’m concerned about that running out and I need to see if I can get distilled water from one of those water stores.
> 
> I’m also starting to get concerned as my wive is suppose to give birth in about 4 weeks. Scary times to be having a baby if things get worse.


I felt sorry for my lung doctor yesterday. She's so young and eight months along also..we had a good chat anyway. She's staying upbeat for being on the frontline while pregnant. I kinda hope she'll just do a leave of absence.


----------



## Blackdog1714

I just thanked my Amazon driver for making a delivery and he thanked me! He said order more we just got a raise!?


----------



## Cathie G

queen koopa said:


> The more tests being done finds more infected humans because it is spreading or is it is that it has been here for a number of time we cannot determine? I know several people who had very strong immune reactions (flue symptoms) in the past year who did not go to the dr., my 68 yr old father included. Took him almost 3 weeks to heal. Started as a very dry cough, then turned nasty in the lungs. He stayed home the entire time. Good to go now. What was that? Around the Holidays we had a ton of people out sick at work..... like being sent home. All this just reminds me of what we face every day.


At my lung doctor, by the grapevine, we all were chatting. I heard that people with flue symptoms were testing negative for the flue back in November. I too think it's been around for awhile. I'm 66 with health problems and so far I'm still here. It's not a new thing to me to wash my hands and all...I have critters. I hate leaving my home because I'm afraid I'll miss something cute and adorable. So I guess I've been in semi self quarantine for awhile too.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

EllieMay said:


> ??? that’s funny stuff Ed! Everyone should have a learning experience like that ?


I can't say that having one has enriched my life


----------



## ZEROPILOT

queen koopa said:


> The more tests being done finds more infected humans because it is spreading or is it is that it has been here for a number of time we cannot determine? I know several people who had very strong immune reactions (flue symptoms) in the past year who did not go to the dr., my 68 yr old father included. Took him almost 3 weeks to heal. Started as a very dry cough, then turned nasty in the lungs. He stayed home the entire time. Good to go now. What was that? Around the Holidays we had a ton of people out sick at work..... like being sent home. All this just reminds me of what we face every day.


I've had a cough, sneezing, headache and a sore throat with an inability to taste things for a few weeks. No fever. No known allergies.
But this started before any talk of the virus.
I'm 55 and relatively healthy.


----------



## ZenHerper

ZEROPILOT said:


> I've had a cough, sneezing, headache and a sore throat with an inability to taste things for a few weeks. No fever. No known allergies.
> But this started before any talk of the virus.
> I'm 55 and relatively healthy.



That does sound more like an acquired allergy, fwiw.

This year (53), I am now allergic to melon.

Dude, like. Mell. On. 










I love melon...


----------



## ZEROPILOT

The first "drive through" Covid19 tests around here just started at CB SMITH PARK in Hollywood.
Kelly and I were in the vacinity this morning headed out to our favorite pet supply store to stock up on live food for my Chameleons.
Even though you need a referral from your primary physician to be tested...There were so many hundreds/thousands of cars in line, that the line spun out of the park. It's a gigantic park. Down Flamingo road. Blocking both southbound lanes for miles and jammed traffic at Pines Blvd. The closest intetsection.
Clearly, this was not very well thought out. No doubt the numbers for this county will officially be much higher tomorrow.

We've been wiping down everything and cleaning our hands. But as of today are going to attempt just staying indoors.
Time to get serious.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

ZenHerper said:


> That does sound more like an acquired allergy, fwiw.
> 
> This year (53), I am now allergic to melon.
> 
> Dude, like. Mell. On.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I love melon...


So. It's not unheard of?
Great.
Sorry about the melon. It's pretty fantastic


----------



## Cathie G

Yvonne G said:


> . . . or if their house ever catches fire it'll smolder for weeks with all that T- paper!!


Oh my garsh. Well, I heard all this shutting down is clearing up some air pollution and certain waters and canals are running clear. It would be a downright stinking shame if tp resmogs US.


----------



## jaizei

ZEROPILOT said:


> So. It's not unheard of?
> Great.
> Sorry about the melon.



Yes developing allergies later in life is possible. I became mildly allergic to cats after being around cats throughout life.


----------



## ZenHerper

To date, no confirmed cases in the far-southern part of NJ, but the first drive-thru testing site up north was blown out and turning people away (via the means of state police) after 4 hours.



ZEROPILOT said:


> So. It's not unheard of?
> Great.
> Sorry about the melon.



Oh yes. Your immune system can bork at any time.

Unintelligently designed.

*_sniffl_e,_ wipes tear_*


----------



## ZEROPILOT

jaizei said:


> Yes developing allergies later in life is possible. I became mildly allergic to cats after being around cats throughout life.


Good. Thanks.
I wonder if it's something in the house or in my yard?
Now that I'm retired. I've spent a lot more time around these things.
It kind of started right after I got my Chameleons set up. But there doesn't seem to be anything associated with them that would make sense.


----------



## JoeWells

ZEROPILOT said:


> The first "drive through" Covid19 tests around here just started at CB SMITH PARK in Hollywood.
> Kelly and I were in the vacinity this morning headed out to our favorite pet supply store to stock up on live food for my Chameleons.
> Even though you need a referral from your primary physician to be tested...There were so many hundreds/thousands of cars in line, that the line spun out of the park. It's a gigantic park. Down Flamingo road. Blocking both southbound lanes for miles and jammed traffic at Pines Blvd. The closest intetsection.
> Clearly, this was not very well thought out. No doubt the numbers for this county will officially be much higher tomorrow.
> 
> We've been wiping down everything and cleaning our hands. But as of today are going to attempt just staying indoors.
> Time to get serious.


Wow. That’s nuts. If these things start popping up nation wide I’m sure the numbers are going to explode. If the numbers potentially rise by 50 or 100% I can see a Lot of panicked people out there. Although that’s going on already in some spots


----------



## Cathie G

ZEROPILOT said:


> So. It's not unheard of?
> Great.
> Sorry about the melon.


I'm allergic to of all things corn. My doctor said I keep forgetting you are on a weird diet. I said it's not really weird. I just have to cook and eat real food. He just looked at me. Why in the world does everything easy to fix have to be corny?


----------



## Toddrickfl1

Here in my area of GA not much has changed. Businesses are still open, no curfew, no shelter in place. The only thing they've closed is schools so far.


----------



## Cathie G

ZEROPILOT said:


> Good. Thanks.
> I wonder if it's something in the house or in my yard?
> Now that I'm retired. I've spent a lot more time around these things.
> It kind of started right after I got my Chameleons set up. But there doesn't seem to be anything associated with them that would make sense.


I hope you figure it out quickly. It's hard to catch an allergy like that in action to identify what it really is. It took me years to identify corn. It was giving me a fast pulse and heart problems. I'll even pass out. All kinds of crazy symptoms. Allergy doctors might be better then they used to be and doctors listen better too so. The problem is you can be exposed to tiny amounts and not feel it too much...and then one more drop does you in. What else went on about that time? It's so weird. I found out later that tea with camomile will give me the same symptoms. I'll be thinking of you.


----------



## Pistachio's Pamperer

Zero pilot: You have fir trees in your yard? Remember they can get that mold/illness stuff. My father in law was having the same issues. Allergies? Late in life? Nah!! Then the doctor said yep. And his retired cranky butt was out working in the yard and had problems all the time. So congested in his sinuses that he was a bear. Someone mentioned it to him. So he went and cut down the little “Christmas” tree and tossed it. Cleared him right up. Either the fir itself/sap/decaying cones/mold were the problem. 

Mother in law was kinda ticked because she put lights and ornaments on it. But no problems since. 
-Meg


----------



## Cathie G

NorCal tortoise guy said:


> I’ve always done that I often wonder if the people around me are getting tired of hearing by hair brained ideas haha


Well...I promise the only time I talk to myself is if there's nobody around. And anybody that knows me knows better then to show up if they don't wanna chat.so it's all on them.?


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Cathie G said:


> I hope you figure it out quickly. It's hard to catch an allergy like that in action to identify what it really is. It took me years to identify corn. It was giving me a fast pulse and heart problems. I'll even pass out. All kinds of crazy symptoms. Allergy doctors might be better then they used to be and doctors listen better too so. The problem is you can be exposed to tiny amounts and not feel it too much...and then one more drop does you in. What else went on about that time? It's so weird. I found out later that tea with camomile will give me the same symptoms. I'll be thinking of you.


Right now cancer and kidney patients can't get a doctor visit.
I can't get a vet to see my dog.
I'll wait.


----------



## Cathie G

ZEROPILOT said:


> Right now cancer and kidney patients can't get a doctor visit.
> I can't get a vet to see my dog.
> I'll wait.


Yea I had to figure it out myself. I'm sure most of the doctors do what they can but I'm also sure that it still takes your own input. One way to start would be narrow down one thing for a few days. If you don't feel better then do it. Omit something else and see if you feel better after a few days. Then try that item again just to see. Usually I can feel the detrimental effects quickly if that's what it really is. I didn't develop my corn allergy until I was around 32 years. I didn't even suspect it at first. It was a fluke to finally figure it out. Good luck.


----------



## Cathie G

Pistachio's Pamperer said:


> Zero pilot: You have fir trees in your yard? Remember they can get that mold/illness stuff. My father in law was having the same issues. Allergies? Late in life? Nah!! Then the doctor said yep. And his retired cranky butt was out working in the yard and had problems all the time. So congested in his sinuses that he was a bear. Someone mentioned it to him. So he went and cut down the little “Christmas” tree and tossed it. Cleared him right up. Either the fir itself/sap/decaying cones/mold were the problem.
> 
> Mother in law was kinda ticked because she put lights and ornaments on it. But no problems since.
> -Meg


? also logical. Even to me. Some firs bother me to no end.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Pistachio's Pamperer said:


> Zero pilot: You have fir trees in your yard? Remember they can get that mold/illness stuff. My father in law was having the same issues. Allergies? Late in life? Nah!! Then the doctor said yep. And his retired cranky butt was out working in the yard and had problems all the time. So congested in his sinuses that he was a bear. Someone mentioned it to him. So he went and cut down the little “Christmas” tree and tossed it. Cleared him right up. Either the fir itself/sap/decaying cones/mold were the problem.
> 
> Mother in law was kinda ticked because she put lights and ornaments on it. But no problems since.
> -Meg


I has several trees. Mostly palm trees. Several hurricanes removed them for me.
The only tree left is a purple trumpet tree.


----------



## jaizei

Now that I think about it, I also became mildly allergic to shellfish/seafood at some point. But mostly just makes me flush and my throat itch so I still eat it. 




Cathie G said:


> I'm allergic to of all things corn. My doctor said I keep forgetting you are on a weird diet. I said it's not really weird. I just have to cook and eat real food. He just looked at me. Why in the world does everything easy to fix have to be corny?



I imagine the turn back to "real" sugar thats happened int he last few years has made it slightly easier without HFCS in everything.


----------



## queen koopa

update on Nevada: governor closed all non-essential business. I hope he doesn’t sleep at night. ?? This is all treason.


----------



## Tom

jaizei said:


> I imagine the turn back to "real" sugar thats happened int he last few years has made it slightly easier without HFCS in everything.



Turn back??? I never turned away!!! Sugar is one of my four main food groups.


----------



## Tom

queen koopa said:


> update on Nevada: governor closed all non-essential business. I hope he doesn’t sleep at night. ?? This is all treason.


Yeah. Something ain't right about all this. And it ain't some scary pathogen that is going to wipe us all out...


----------



## jaizei

queen koopa said:


> update on Nevada: governor closed all non-essential business. I hope he doesn’t sleep at night. ?? This is all treason.



You have seen the projections? You do realize no one would be taking such drastic actions if they didn't think it was necessary. If appropriate actions had been taken in January, less severe measures would have been an option.

Its easier to contain a fire if you act when you smell smoke, instead of waiting to see the flames.


----------



## queen koopa

jaizei said:


> You have seen the projections? You do realize no one would be taking such drastic actions if they didn't think it was necessary. If appropriate actions had been taken in January, less severe measures would have been an option.
> 
> Its easier to contain a fire if you act when you smell smoke, instead of waiting to see the flames.


Close all business, spread fear and disunity through social distancing because of projections? 30 days of closure will help?What are the projections for the lives and well being for the millions of non affected (and recovered) Americans? The world is playing telephone and I think we are winning. Fire cannot be compared to the Corona #19 virus.


----------



## ZenHerper

queen koopa said:


> ... 30 days of closure will help?...



It's simple high school geometry. Area Under A Curve.

The same number of people will become infected either way (distancing, or not).

BUT our resources will not be able to manage a gigantic number of people becoming infected THIS WEEK. If we can spread out the number of infections OVER MORE TIME, hospitals may be less overwhelmed and fewer people may die because they can be attended to in a less manic fashion. Doctors won't have to choose who gets help and who gets wheeled into a hallway to suffocate and die unattended.

What is happening in Italy WILL happen here. We can do it the 'meh' way, or we can pump the brakes on the transmission rate and give our medical facilities a better chance at saving lives. Since we know better, there is no rational reason to not do better.

A governor of a state using his legal authority to declare a legal emergency is not treason. This is why we have governors. A state of emergency is a necessary inconvenience of varying degree, but it is a governor's legal purvue.


----------



## Markw84

Have you been following at all what has been going on in Italy for example??

The real life Sophie's choice has come to fruition. Drs have to decide who lives and who dies. All the hospital beds are full and they have been using anything they can get their hands on. No more critical care space. No more ventilators. 100s of new critical patients coming in per day, and they have to decide which few of those, they can even treat and leave others to die. 627 died just yesterday from this. Decisions are being made based mostly on expected life expectancy of the patient.

It will get at least that bad here or worse if we don't do something to mitigate the spread of this virus. We cannot stop it, but by extreme measures to try to limit as much social contact as possible, there is a good chance we can give the medical system needed time to get better equipped to handle it. If we would have continued to do nothing and simply business as usual, all the real science I have read (not the political rhetoric) points to our medical system being totally overwhelmed by mid April. The difference with this "shelter in place" strategy and closing non-essential business is huge! To do everything we can to limit the number of critical cases to a number our system can handle is imperative.

As an example - do you know we have about 170,000 ventilators in the entire US? One of the most primary life saving devices for someone critical with a SARS type virus. Unchecked, the number of critical cases by mid June would likely climb to over 1 million. Who wants to choose who gets a ventilator and who is left without to die?

Yes, the virulent other flu strains have killed 100,000 people in a year. But that is with the general population and our leaders simply not caring that "some" would die. No preventative measures except flu vaccines. No quarantines, poor social and cleanliness habits by us all. But those flues have a fatality rate of about 0.1%. We are seeing COVID-19 with 6% fatality rates in areas with overwhelmed medical systems. No vaccine. No general population resistance or immunity.

Brenda has to go to work - she set up 4 COVID-19 testing locations here so far - 2 drive through and 2 ER extensions. Hospitals are scrambling to try to get ready for the potential crush. IT is indeed real!

It is tempting to feel better by blaming a conspiracy theory, or political agenda. But can you imagine the extreme amount of convincing it would take to get these "political career ending" measures enacted?

Although I don't like the terrible effect it will have on business, my retirement stocks, having to shelter in place, I do agree it is necessary. I don't want to see the doctors here having to decide who lives and who dies simply because we don't have the capacity to handle the number of cases because we treat this just like the "flu".


----------



## Markw84

ZenHerper said:


> It's simple high school geometry. Area Under A Curve.
> 
> The same number of people will become infected either way (distancing, or not).
> 
> BUT our resources will not be able to manage a gigantic number of people becoming infected THIS WEEK. If we can spread out the number of infections OVER MORE TIME, hospitals may be less overwhelmed and fewer people may die because they can be attended to in a less manic fashion. Doctors won't have to choose who gets help and who gets wheeled into a hallway to suffocate and die unattended.
> 
> What is happening in Italy WILL happen here. We can do it the 'meh' way, or we can pump the brakes on the transmission rate and give our medical facilities a better chance at saving lives. Since we know better, there is no rational reason to not do better.
> 
> A governor of a state using his legal authority to declare a legal emergency is not treason. This is why we have governors. A state of emergency is a necessary inconvenience of varying degree, but it is a governor's legal purvue.



I was busy typing while you were posting. I appreciate your voice of reason.


----------



## Yvonne G

It's pretty scary. I have been "sheltering in place" for quite a while now, years even, to save $$ on gas. I make only one trip into town a week, and I do my banking, go to the post office, and shop for a week. If I forgot to buy something, I do without until the next week's trip. And I stopped eating out quite a while ago too (and I REALLY love fast food). So all this stuff is no hardship for me, but I really worry about getting sick.


----------



## ZenHerper

Markw84 said:


> I was busy typing while you were posting. I appreciate your voice of reason.



I can fully appreciate people who live in states where emergencies are not a regular thing.

In NJ we have the odd snow or hurricane emergency and the governor on duty shuts the state down. Critical/necessary travel only. Lots of businesses take the day off.

Stuff gets cleaned up, life goes on.

The operative word being LIFE. 

This is gonna be tough. We gotta pull up our shorts and get to the other side.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Tom said:


> Turn back??? I never turned away!!! Sugar is one of my four main food groups.


Not here.
I'm diabetic.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Yvonne G said:


> It's pretty scary. I have been "sheltering in place" for quite a while now, years even, to save $$ on gas. I make only one trip into town a week, and I do my banking, go to the post office, and shop for a week. If I forgot to buy something, I do without until the next week's trip. And I stopped eating out quite a while ago too (and I REALLY love fast food). So all this stuff is no hardship for me, but I really worry about getting sick.


It sounds like you'd be relatively safe by the way you've designed your whole life.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

The infection rate is doubling about every five days. 
We will all know someone who is infected very soon. Just by the numbers.


----------



## Maggie3fan

Yvonne G said:


> . . . or if their house ever catches fire it'll smolder for weeks with all that T- paper!!



Listen you...that's MY joke...Remember...I usta say it abt your freaking house...you hoarded t-paper before it was fashiohable


----------



## queen koopa

ZenHerper said:


> In NJ we have the odd snow or hurricane emergency and the governor on duty shuts the state down. Critical/necessary travel only. Lots of businesses take the day off.
> 
> Stuff gets cleaned up, life goes on.
> 
> The operative word being LIFE.
> 
> This is gonna be tough. We gotta pull up our shorts and get to the other side.


THAT is an emergency. Emergency services kick in and they know what they are doing. That cannot be compared to a world spread virus that cannot be detected unless your able to get a test.


----------



## Maggie3fan

Cathie G said:


> I'm allergic to of all things corn. My doctor said I keep forgetting you are on a weird diet. I said it's not really weird. I just have to cook and eat real food. He just looked at me. Why in the world does everything easy to fix have to be corny?



That's really funny...I have an intestinal disease so I am on a kinda of a strange diet...not of my choosing...and I was a lousy eater before I got this thing...2 of the things on that menu that I can eat include rice, corn and potatoes...I am the 2nd world's worst cook...my mother being the top terrible cook in the world...anyhow I make Jasmine brown rice...and when it's cooked I add a can of corn and buncha butter I love it for some reason...add corn to tuna noodle casserole...in a meatloaf, a can...in homemade mac n cheese...oh damn...gonna go cook...


----------



## Maggie3fan

Markw84 said:


> Have you been following at all what has been going on in Italy for example??
> 
> The real life Sophie's choice has come to fruition. Drs have to decide who lives and who dies. All the hospital beds are full and they have been using anything they can get their hands on. No more critical care space. No more ventilators. 100s of new critical patients coming in per day, and they have to decide which few of those, they can even treat and leave others to die. 627 died just yesterday from this. Decisions are being made based mostly on expected life expectancy of the patient.
> 
> It will get at least that bad here or worse if we don't do something to mitigate the spread of this virus. We cannot stop it, but by extreme measures to try to limit as much social contact as possible, there is a good chance we can give the medical system needed time to get better equipped to handle it. If we would have continued to do nothing and simply business as usual, all the real science I have read (not the political rhetoric) points to our medical system being totally overwhelmed by mid April. The difference with this "shelter in place" strategy and closing non-essential business is huge! To do everything we can to limit the number of critical cases to a number our system can handle is imperative.
> 
> As an example - do you know we have about 170,000 ventilators in the entire US? One of the most primary life saving devices for someone critical with a SARS type virus. Unchecked, the number of critical cases by mid June would likely climb to over 1 million. Who wants to choose who gets a ventilator and who is left without to die?
> 
> Yes, the virulent other flu strains have killed 100,000 people in a year. But that is with the general population and our leaders simply not caring that "some" would die. No preventative measures except flu vaccines. No quarantines, poor social and cleanliness habits by us all. But those flues have a fatality rate of about 0.1%. We are seeing COVID-19 with 6% fatality rates in areas with overwhelmed medical systems. No vaccine. No general population resistance or immunity.
> 
> Brenda has to go to work - she set up 4 COVID-19 testing locations here so far - 2 drive through and 2 ER extensions. Hospitals are scrambling to try to get ready for the potential crush. IT is indeed real!
> 
> It is tempting to feel better by blaming a conspiracy theory, or political agenda. But can you imagine the extreme amount of convincing it would take to get these "political career ending" measures enacted?
> 
> Although I don't like the terrible effect it will have on business, my retirement stocks, having to shelter in place, I do agree it is necessary. I don't want to see the doctors here having to decide who lives and who dies simply because we don't have the capacity to handle the number of cases because we treat this just like the "flu".



I


Markw84 said:


> Have you been following at all what has been going on in Italy for example??
> 
> The real life Sophie's choice has come to fruition. Drs have to decide who lives and who dies. All the hospital beds are full and they have been using anything they can get their hands on. No more critical care space. No more ventilators. 100s of new critical patients coming in per day, and they have to decide which few of those, they can even treat and leave others to die. 627 died just yesterday from this. Decisions are being made based mostly on expected life expectancy of the patient.
> 
> It will get at least that bad here or worse if we don't do something to mitigate the spread of this virus. We cannot stop it, but by extreme measures to try to limit as much social contact as possible, there is a good chance we can give the medical system needed time to get better equipped to handle it. If we would have continued to do nothing and simply business as usual, all the real science I have read (not the political rhetoric) points to our medical system being totally overwhelmed by mid April. The difference with this "shelter in place" strategy and closing non-essential business is huge! To do everything we can to limit the number of critical cases to a number our system can handle is imperative.
> 
> As an example - do you know we have about 170,000 ventilators in the entire US? One of the most primary life saving devices for someone critical with a SARS type virus. Unchecked, the number of critical cases by mid June would likely climb to over 1 million. Who wants to choose who gets a ventilator and who is left without to die?
> 
> Yes, the virulent other flu strains have killed 100,000 people in a year. But that is with the general population and our leaders simply not caring that "some" would die. No preventative measures except flu vaccines. No quarantines, poor social and cleanliness habits by us all. But those flues have a fatality rate of about 0.1%. We are seeing COVID-19 with 6% fatality rates in areas with overwhelmed medical systems. No vaccine. No general population resistance or immunity.
> 
> Brenda has to go to work - she set up 4 COVID-19 testing locations here so far - 2 drive through and 2 ER extensions. Hospitals are scrambling to try to get ready for the potential crush. IT is indeed real!
> 
> It is tempting to feel better by blaming a conspiracy theory, or political agenda. But can you imagine the extreme amount of convincing it would take to get these "political career ending" measures enacted?
> 
> Although I don't like the terrible effect it will have on business, my retirement stocks, having to shelter in place, I do agree it is necessary. I don't want to see the doctors here having to decide who lives and who dies simply because we don't have the capacity to handle the number of cases because we treat this just like the "flu".



I agree with you 100%...Our NG is gathering within a mile from my house...I'm on a 1 month self imposed home arrest or whatever they call it. governor is going to install a mandatory 3 week home thing Monday, our borders are closed...I am fine with staying home... heck...I have 18 parakeets, 2 cats, 3 tortoises and 15 box turtles...staying home for me is fun...or and a small water turtle recently acquired...


----------



## queen koopa

Markw84 said:


> Have you been following at all what has been going on in Italy for example??
> 
> The real life Sophie's choice has come to fruition. Drs have to decide who lives and who dies. All the hospital beds are full and they have been using anything they can get their hands on. No more critical care space. No more ventilators. 100s of new critical patients coming in per day, and they have to decide which few of those, they can even treat and leave others to die. 627 died just yesterday from this. Decisions are being made based mostly on expected life expectancy of the patient.
> 
> It will get at least that bad here or worse if we don't do something to mitigate the spread of this virus. We cannot stop it, but by extreme measures to try to limit as much social contact as possible, there is a good chance we can give the medical system needed time to get better equipped to handle it. If we would have continued to do nothing and simply business as usual, all the real science I have read (not the political rhetoric) points to our medical system being totally overwhelmed by mid April. The difference with this "shelter in place" strategy and closing non-essential business is huge! To do everything we can to limit the number of critical cases to a number our system can handle is imperative.
> 
> As an example - do you know we have about 170,000 ventilators in the entire US? One of the most primary life saving devices for someone critical with a SARS type virus. Unchecked, the number of critical cases by mid June would likely climb to over 1 million. Who wants to choose who gets a ventilator and who is left without to die?
> 
> Yes, the virulent other flu strains have killed 100,000 people in a year. But that is with the general population and our leaders simply not caring that "some" would die. No preventative measures except flu vaccines. No quarantines, poor social and cleanliness habits by us all. But those flues have a fatality rate of about 0.1%. We are seeing COVID-19 with 6% fatality rates in areas with overwhelmed medical systems. No vaccine. No general population resistance or immunity.
> 
> Brenda has to go to work - she set up 4 COVID-19 testing locations here so far - 2 drive through and 2 ER extensions. Hospitals are scrambling to try to get ready for the potential crush. IT is indeed real!
> 
> It is tempting to feel better by blaming a conspiracy theory, or political agenda. But can you imagine the extreme amount of convincing it would take to get these "political career ending" measures enacted?
> 
> Although I don't like the terrible effect it will have on business, my retirement stocks, having to shelter in place, I do agree it is necessary. I don't want to see the doctors here having to decide who lives and who dies simply because we don't have the capacity to handle the number of cases because we treat this just like the "flu".


Found this info on Micheal Bloombergs:


----------



## queen koopa

Yvonne G said:


> It's pretty scary. I have been "sheltering in place" for quite a while now, years even, to save $$ on gas. I make only one trip into town a week, and I do my banking, go to the post office, and shop for a week. If I forgot to buy something, I do without until the next week's trip. And I stopped eating out quite a while ago too (and I REALLY love fast food). So all this stuff is no hardship for me, but I really worry about getting sick.


A person who takes care of themselves ?? Spread the word.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

In the brief time I was out today to get some food and orange juice. I noticed that virtually everyone was wearing exam gloves and some also wore masks.
I've begun wearing gloves when I go out now.


----------



## ZippyButter

ZEROPILOT said:


> In the brief time I was out today to get some food and orange juice. I noticed that virtually everyone was wearing exam gloves and some also wore masks.
> I've begun wearing gloves when I go out now.


We started using gloves and masks yesterday for our weekly grocery shopping, also we limited the time we spent inside the market. Stay safe.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

There have also been reports showing that people with certain blood types are more or less likely to contract the virus.
And that men are much more likely than women to have issues with it.
I've been looking for the article in print. I heard it on the radio while driving.
I can't vouch for it's authenticity


----------



## Tom

I wonder how many people have come into contact with this virus and their immune systems fought it off. I have several friends who say their symptoms matched what they read about this virus, before it became the top news of the world all day every day, and they simply recovered on their own as they would any other time they've been sick. In my business, with the amount of traveling that I do, and the amount of traveling that everyone I come into contact with does, it seems unlikely that I haven't been in contact with it. Have I just been lucky? Did my immune system defeat it? I'd be very curious to test a lot more people and see just how prevalent this thing is. This would also give us a much more accurate picture of just how deadly it really is, or isn't.

I've been seeing conflicting reports since this thing started. Some say the death rate is really high at 6%+. Other reports say the rate of death per infection is much lower than initially though at 0.4%. Without testing a very large sample of a-sypmtomaitc people, along with the people showing full blow respiratory distress, I don't know how the rate of fatalities can be accurately assessed. All we know now is how many tests have come back positive on people that are clearly showing the symptoms, and how many of those died or recovered. But how many millions of people have been exposed, fought it off, and never showed any symptoms, and never been tested? In this respect, it would be much like the flu. Millions upon millions of people are exposed to the flu virus every year, but relatively few ever "get infected" and show symptoms, while even fewer actually die from the related complications.


----------



## ZenHerper

The issue with testing is that we don't have a way to test for a past infection. We can only find out if someone is ACTIVELY infected with live virus particles at the time the test swab is taken. So testing is confined to people with high fevers, or high-risk people with mild fevers, or people who are being hospitalized with pneumonia, like that.

When coming across statistics, you have to firstly be certain that the math is being done properly. lol [ is/of = %/100] Most people reporting decimal rates are forgetting to multiply by 100 after dividing the total dead by the total known-infected population.

Are they reporting death stats as a percentage of the total population? Or of the infected population (the most helpful stat)?

The World Health Organization keeps a counter on its home page:









Coronavirus disease (COVID-19) – World Health Organization


Information on COVID-19, the infectious disease caused by the most recently discovered coronavirus.




www.who.int





The aggregate worldwide death rate among known-infected people is currently holding at 4%. This number is an average across 185 countries. Not all countries have comparable medical resources, so there is a lot of fluctuation.

This is the U.S. Centers for Disease Control (CDC) counter (note: it is only updated once daily, M-F...it is now one day behind):









Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) in the U.S.


View the number of confirmed cases COVID-19 in the United States.




www.cdc.gov





The U.S. is faring better overall with a 1% death rate among known-infected people. For the stage of spread where we are today, our medical teams are doing a superior job of keeping people alive, no matter their co-morbid conditions. That we had a lot of advance warning and information has been a great help.

Italy's death rate is a whopping 9% of known-infected people...this is more than twice the worldwide average:









Italy Covid-19 Cases and Deaths Statistics (Update Live Cases: 5282076 / Deaths: 135178)


Italy Covid-19 Cases and Deaths Statistics. Coronavirus 2019-nCov Update (Live): 272,587,530 Cases and 5,348,575 Deaths and statistics report by WHO




virusncov.com





*******

If we keep going at a steep infection curve, our 1% death rate will sky rocket. Health workers are a very great risk since they are in constant, close contact with the infected and ill (patients are coughing out virus particles AND co-infective agents that are most suited to take advantage of damaged lung tissue).


----------



## Cathie G

maggie18fan said:


> That's really funny...I have an intestinal disease so I am on a kinda of a strange diet...not of my choosing...and I was a lousy eater before I got this thing...2 of the things on that menu that I can eat include rice, corn and potatoes...I am the 2nd world's worst cook...my mother being the top terrible cook in the world...anyhow I make Jasmine brown rice...and when it's cooked I add a can of corn and buncha butter I love it for some reason...add corn to tuna noodle casserole...in a meatloaf, a can...in homemade mac n cheese...oh damn...gonna go cook...


I do the rice with a side of veggies and tons of butter or tators and veggies with tons of butter... And a good steak, etc...I miss popcorn and caramel popcorn with peanuts though..Can you believe that Campbell's tomato soup has corn in it now? One of my favorite meals is canned tomato soup and a grilled cheese sandwich. On a brighter side?hunts makes a ketchup that has no high fructose corn syrup now...and I can find potato chips fried in oils not corn oil. Sometimes, I go ahead and pop popcorn for everyone here. Of course I have to crunch a couple to make sure it's good...


----------



## Cathie G

maggie18fan said:


> I
> 
> 
> I agree with you 100%...Our NG is gathering within a mile from my house...I'm on a 1 month self imposed home arrest or whatever they call it. governor is going to install a mandatory 3 week home thing Monday, our borders are closed...I am fine with staying home... heck...I have 18 parakeets, 2 cats, 3 tortoises and 15 box turtles...staying home for me is fun...or and a small water turtle recently acquired...


Same here. As much as possible...I'm supposed to be retired and playing with my critters any whoo.


----------



## Cathie G

Tom said:


> I wonder how many people have come into contact with this virus and their immune systems fought it off. I have several friends who say their symptoms matched what they read about this virus, before it became the top news of the world all day every day, and they simply recovered on their own as they would any other time they've been sick. In my business, with the amount of traveling that I do, and the amount of traveling that everyone I come into contact with does, it seems unlikely that I haven't been in contact with it. Have I just been lucky? Did my immune system defeat it? I'd be very curious to test a lot more people and see just how prevalent this thing is. This would also give us a much more accurate picture of just how deadly it really is, or isn't.
> 
> I've been seeing conflicting reports since this thing started. Some say the death rate is really high at 6%+. Other reports say the rate of death per infection is much lower than initially though at 0.4%. Without testing a very large sample of a-sypmtomaitc people, along with the people showing full blow respiratory distress, I don't know how the rate of fatalities can be accurately assessed. All we know now is how many tests have come back positive on people that are clearly showing the symptoms, and how many of those died or recovered. But how many millions of people have been exposed, fought it off, and never showed any symptoms, and never been tested? In this respect, it would be much like the flu. Millions upon millions of people are exposed to the flu virus every year, but relatively few ever "get infected" and show symptoms, while even fewer actually die from the related complications.


I heard something similar at my lung and critical care doctor a couple of days ago. Any time I can stay home, I do anyway. I'm afraid I'll miss a tortoise cuteness episode...?


----------



## Cathie G

jaizei said:


> Now that I think about it, I also became mildly allergic to shellfish/seafood at some point. But mostly just makes me flush and my throat itch so I still eat it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I imagine the turn back to "real" sugar thats happened int he last few years has made it slightly easier without HFCS in everything.


Yes! I also have to make sure my medications aren't made with cornstarch. Most generics are.?I try to keep it down to a dull roar. I thank God for my doctors that I have right now. If I express an issue with a med they listen. I didn't develop this sensitivity to corn until after 1978. I was 25...


----------



## mark1

I read somewhere Italy has an oddly high mortality rate to the flu also ? old population ? then
you got to wonder why japan hasn't been devastated by this ?


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Tom said:


> I wonder how many people have come into contact with this virus and their immune systems fought it off. I have several friends who say their symptoms matched what they read about this virus, before it became the top news of the world all day every day, and they simply recovered on their own as they would any other time they've been sick. In my business, with the amount of traveling that I do, and the amount of traveling that everyone I come into contact with does, it seems unlikely that I haven't been in contact with it. Have I just been lucky? Did my immune system defeat it? I'd be very curious to test a lot more people and see just how prevalent this thing is. This would also give us a much more accurate picture of just how deadly it really is, or isn't.
> 
> I've been seeing conflicting reports since this thing started. Some say the death rate is really high at 6%+. Other reports say the rate of death per infection is much lower than initially though at 0.4%. Without testing a very large sample of a-sypmtomaitc people, along with the people showing full blow respiratory distress, I don't know how the rate of fatalities can be accurately assessed. All we know now is how many tests have come back positive on people that are clearly showing the symptoms, and how many of those died or recovered. But how many millions of people have been exposed, fought it off, and never showed any symptoms, and never been tested? In this respect, it would be much like the flu. Millions upon millions of people are exposed to the flu virus every year, but relatively few ever "get infected" and show symptoms, while even fewer actually die from the related complications.


This is a we learn as we go situation.
We don't yet know the results or how or what we should've done.


----------



## mark1

i personally have my doubts the US could be Italy even if we handled this socially as they have ....using the flu data as a comparison ..….. the CDC info I just looked at says in 2016/17 flu season in the US there were 29 million flu cases and 38,000 deaths from it …… in Italy the average number of flu cases per season from 2014-17 were 5.3million , with 24,981 flu deaths in 2016/17 …….. if the US had a similar death rate from the flu , my math says 137,000 deaths would have occurred in 2016/17 vs the 38,000 the cdc says we had , that's like 3.6 times as many deaths…..... averaging all 4 yrs of the Italy data , which may actually be a better comparison , in 2016/17 in the US with 29million cases of the flu, there would have been 93,290 deaths vs the actual 38,000….. if the math , and logic is correct , either one is a significant difference …...... just a thought i'm throwing out there …….. makes me wonder why Italy has such a higher death rate with this and the flu ?


----------



## Tim Carlisle

A lot of folks here in Ohio have been having a rough go at it as well. Seems that a crisis can bring out the best and worst in people. The hoarders have been a problem since day one; clearing shelves of much needed items and denying others of those products. I've witnessed fights break out over empty shelves, and against those with cart-fulls of groceries and paper items. I've seen that rage turn against those who stock the shelves, and against those who operate the fast food drive-throughs. I've seen many posts via Craigslist, Facebook and others begging for much needed supplies, and pleading to anyone who will listen. All the while on these same venues, there are those selling such needed items for 10X their worth or more; making it impossible for those who are temporarily out of work to afford even the most basic of essentials.

On the flip side, I've seen acts of kindness I've not seen since 911. Groups and individuals coming together to serve the needs of their respective communities. Folks working in what was once thought of as menial positions are now our saviors. I'm referring to grocery stockers, delivery drivers, health aides, fast food workers, and general warehouse workers. God bless the truckers, medical personnel, and business owners who have changed their entire business model to accommodate this crisis. God bless those who have virtually emptied out a lot of the area pet shelters. God bless those who lend a receptive ear to those in isolation. And lastly, God bless our leaders in government who are trying their best to alleviate the stress put on its citizens.


----------



## Tom

When the US and the Italian Prime Minister decided to close their borders and stop allowing China and many other countries, to visit, one Italian Mayor took it upon himself to make a "Hug a Chinese" day. He wanted everyone to know that he and his people are not racists, and don't support that sort of "hate". Now an Italian Virologist is saying that is one contributing factor to why this virus is hitting Italy so hard in comparison to other countries.

I've said it many times before: Political correctness kills.


----------



## queen koopa

Tom said:


> I've said it many times before: Political correctness kills.


A very accurate statement.


----------



## Markw84

Tom said:


> I wonder how many people have come into contact with this virus and their immune systems fought it off. I have several friends who say their symptoms matched what they read about this virus, before it became the top news of the world all day every day, and they simply recovered on their own as they would any other time they've been sick. In my business, with the amount of traveling that I do, and the amount of traveling that everyone I come into contact with does, it seems unlikely that I haven't been in contact with it. Have I just been lucky? Did my immune system defeat it? I'd be very curious to test a lot more people and see just how prevalent this thing is. This would also give us a much more accurate picture of just how deadly it really is, or isn't.
> 
> I've been seeing conflicting reports since this thing started. Some say the death rate is really high at 6%+. Other reports say the rate of death per infection is much lower than initially though at 0.4%. Without testing a very large sample of a-sypmtomaitc people, along with the people showing full blow respiratory distress, I don't know how the rate of fatalities can be accurately assessed. All we know now is how many tests have come back positive on people that are clearly showing the symptoms, and how many of those died or recovered. But how many millions of people have been exposed, fought it off, and never showed any symptoms, and never been tested? In this respect, it would be much like the flu. Millions upon millions of people are exposed to the flu virus every year, but relatively few ever "get infected" and show symptoms, while even fewer actually die from the related complications.



One of the really confusing issues we are dealing with is that the most prevalent flu strain making the rounds in the US the past fall and winter had almost exactly the same initial symptoms. It was not as virulent and most importantly many had immune systems that already were resistant by fighting other similar flu strains. I myself had this flu and feel like it is exactly what they now describe to look for in symptoms. But I know I contracted and had it before the Dec 31st "discovery" and reporting of the first cases in Wuhan, China. We know this COVID-19 strain did not exist outside that area prior to at least the first few weeks of January 2020.

The death rate is very dependent upon the ability of the medical system to treat the critical cases. We have learned much from the cases in China, and now Europe already. That is helping death rates now. Staying within our medical system capacity to treat will keep death rates much lower. But this COVID-19 is even then probably in the range of 10-20 times more deadly than the flu strains we normally see. we have not experienced a virus, though, that has given us more critical cases than our system can treat. Again, that is the biggest issue for looking at death rates - staying within the bandwith of the medical system capacity to treat. Once that is exceeded, death rates spike as treatment for all is not possible. In the US we are still well within the system capacity. Part of the issue is what is mentioned above - so many have the symptoms of the existing and wide-spread flu already well circulating that many are feeling the must now have COVID-19 and want testing. This taxes our, sadly, undercapacity for testing. That is one of the most flagrant mistakes in hindsight our leaders made - too slow to pull the trigger to fund/authorize the massive need for testing that was imminently on its way.

Once COVID-19 proved to have "community spread" cases in the US, we became stuck with the issue of how to differentiate new cases by symptom from the already prevalent flu. with testing limited, we are still forced to look at possible contact plus symptoms as a testing criteria. With testing becoming more available, we are starting to test at dr discretion for recent symptoms only in "high risk" cases. That will expand even further as more test kits are available.

Many will come in contact and even become carriers of this but never show symtoms or become sick. Just as with the Flu. That's a scary part of this. But as with most all viruses, as the exposure reaches to a point where a very large portion of the population has been exposed, there is a "herd immunity" that starts to develop as well. The COVID-19 will mutate, and like almost all viruses act, the mutation will probably be more benign. Those exposed and not critical will become immune. A vaccine will be developed. An end is in sight. We just need to slow the spread to give out current system time to deal with it now.


----------



## Maggie3fan

I went to town Friday...the bread aisle was kinda stocked...and I DID take the last 2 19 seed bread... leaving about 100 loaves of other types of bread...and some ***** started to reach into my cart as she said " you are JUST an old lady, my kids will only eat that bread" I raised my cane and said" b****...I will f***you up if you touch my bread...
Damn Sam...yep, I am JUST an old lady...a 74 yr old still tuff retired trk driver and a 1 % biker for 30 years or so...I am done, sad and disgusted... so I am staying home voluntarily so I don't hurt somebody who thinks I am a weak a** old lady and tries to do anything to me and my needed groceries...sorry, but some people here in Corvallis...who seem to have lost their minds...I WILL use violence to protect myself unhappily so... I do stay home...fortunately I have animals...to calm me down and entertain me... ? going to feed now...


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## Maggie3fan

ZEROPILOT said:


> It sounds like you'd be relatively safe by the way you've designed your whole life.


She's always disliked people and has always been a hermit...I have always been an angry loner and this is just one more excuse not to go town... sadly


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## Warren

maggie18fan said:


> I went to town Friday...the bread aisle was kinda stocked...and I DID take the last 2 19 seed bread... leaving about 100 loaves of other types of bread...and some ***** started to reach into my cart as she said " you are JUST an old lady, my kids will only eat that bread" I raised my cane and said" b****...I will f***you up if you touch my bread...
> Damn Sam...yep, I am JUST an old lady...a 74 yr old still tuff retired trk driver and a 1 % biker for 30 years or so...I am done, sad and disgusted... so I am staying home voluntarily so I don't hurt somebody who thinks I am a weak a** old lady and tries to do anything to me and my needed groceries...sorry, but some people here in Corvallis...who seem to have lost their minds...I WILL use violence to protect myself unhappily so... I do stay home...fortunately I have animals...to calm me down and entertain me... ? going to feed now...


" You go girl "


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## Tom

maggie18fan said:


> I went to town Friday...the bread aisle was kinda stocked...and I DID take the last 2 19 seed bread... leaving about 100 loaves of other types of bread...and some ***** started to reach into my cart as she said " you are JUST an old lady, my kids will only eat that bread" I raised my cane and said" b****...I will f***you up if you touch my bread...
> Damn Sam...yep, I am JUST an old lady...a 74 yr old still tuff retired trk driver and a 1 % biker for 30 years or so...I am done, sad and disgusted... so I am staying home voluntarily so I don't hurt somebody who thinks I am a weak a** old lady and tries to do anything to me and my needed groceries...sorry, but some people here in Corvallis...who seem to have lost their minds...I WILL use violence to protect myself unhappily so... I do stay home...fortunately I have animals...to calm me down and entertain me... ? going to feed now...


Unbelievable! Man I wish I was there to see that. The look on that woman's face must have been memorable. I can't even imagine the gall it takes to just reach into someone else's cart and tell them straight to their face you are taking their stuff. And then to discover you've done and said that to the WRONG little old lady! Classic Maggie.


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## queen koopa

maggie18fan said:


> I went to town Friday...the bread aisle was kinda stocked...and I DID take the last 2 19 seed bread... leaving about 100 loaves of other types of bread...and some ***** started to reach into my cart as she said " you are JUST an old lady, my kids will only eat that bread" I raised my cane and said" b****...I will f***you up if you touch my bread...
> Damn Sam...yep, I am JUST an old lady...a 74 yr old still tuff retired trk driver and a 1 % biker for 30 years or so...I am done, sad and disgusted... so I am staying home voluntarily so I don't hurt somebody who thinks I am a weak a** old lady and tries to do anything to me and my needed groceries...sorry, but some people here in Corvallis...who seem to have lost their minds...I WILL use violence to protect myself unhappily so... I do stay home...fortunately I have animals...to calm me down and entertain me... ? going to feed now...


Omg!!!!!! Sorry. I have not come into contact with any of these people..I have many things to say but will refrain. You keep on telling those vile humans to get back or get hit.


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## Cathie G

Mizcreant said:


> A lot of folks here in Ohio have been having a rough go at it as well. Seems that a crisis can bring out the best and worst in people. The hoarders have been a problem since day one; clearing shelves of much needed items and denying others of those products. I've witnessed fights break out over empty shelves, and against those with cart-fulls of groceries and paper items. I've seen that rage turn against those who stock the shelves, and against those who operate the fast food drive-throughs. I've seen many posts via Craigslist, Facebook and others begging for much needed supplies, and pleading to anyone who will listen. All the while on these same venues, there are those selling such needed items for 10X their worth or more; making it impossible for those who are temporarily out of work to afford even the most basic of essentials.
> 
> On the flip side, I've seen acts of kindness I've not seen since 911. Groups and individuals coming together to serve the needs of their respective communities. Folks working in what was once thought of as menial positions are now our saviors. I'm referring to grocery stockers, delivery drivers, health aides, fast food workers, and general warehouse workers. God bless the truckers, medical personnel, and business owners who have changed their entire business model to accommodate this crisis. God bless those who have virtually emptied out a lot of the area pet shelters. God bless those who lend a receptive ear to those in isolation. And lastly, God bless our leaders in government who are trying their best to alleviate the stress put on its citizens.


Yes...and don't think for a moment they aren't aware of what they may be exposed to. Let alone the increase on their work load...yet same low pay. The idiots that have been attacking store clerks don't define us. They actually are a minority.


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## Toddrickfl1

maggie18fan said:


> I went to town Friday...the bread aisle was kinda stocked...and I DID take the last 2 19 seed bread... leaving about 100 loaves of other types of bread...and some ***** started to reach into my cart as she said " you are JUST an old lady, my kids will only eat that bread" I raised my cane and said" b****...I will f***you up if you touch my bread...
> Damn Sam...yep, I am JUST an old lady...a 74 yr old still tuff retired trk driver and a 1 % biker for 30 years or so...I am done, sad and disgusted... so I am staying home voluntarily so I don't hurt somebody who thinks I am a weak a** old lady and tries to do anything to me and my needed groceries...sorry, but some people here in Corvallis...who seem to have lost their minds...I WILL use violence to protect myself unhappily so... I do stay home...fortunately I have animals...to calm me down and entertain me... ? going to feed now...


Maggie you definitely strike me as someone I wouldn't want to mess with. Lol


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## ZEROPILOT

I live between two Walmarts.
I gloved up and went to both to buy meats for my grill.( I've been cooking for us and a few neighbors who are also home)
Both Walmarts had toilet paper and paper towels.
Neither had alcohol, sanitizer, spray or wipes.
And today almost every shopper was wearing gloves and not handling cash.
Everyone wearing gloves is pretty new.
I suppose masks as well as gloves are next.
South Florida has fully half of all cases of infection in the entire state.


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## Cathie G

maggie18fan said:


> I went to town Friday...the bread aisle was kinda stocked...and I DID take the last 2 19 seed bread... leaving about 100 loaves of other types of bread...and some ***** started to reach into my cart as she said " you are JUST an old lady, my kids will only eat that bread" I raised my cane and said" b****...I will f***you up if you touch my bread...
> Damn Sam...yep, I am JUST an old lady...a 74 yr old still tuff retired trk driver and a 1 % biker for 30 years or so...I am done, sad and disgusted... so I am staying home voluntarily so I don't hurt somebody who thinks I am a weak a** old lady and tries to do anything to me and my needed groceries...sorry, but some people here in Corvallis...who seem to have lost their minds...I WILL use violence to protect myself unhappily so... I do stay home...fortunately I have animals...to calm me down and entertain me... ? going to feed now...


All I can say after your so called rant is...GO GIRL...and O H I O just received a stay at home order today. It will be in effect tomorrow night. I planned on going to the store tomorrow but that's now cancelled. I don't want to deal with the zombie apocalypse even though I'm allowed.?


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## Tim Carlisle

Cathie G said:


> All I can say after your so called rant is...GO GIRL...and O H I O just received a stay at home order today. It will be in effect tomorrow night. I planned on going to the store tomorrow but that's now cancelled. I don't want to deal with the zombie apocalypse even though I'm allowed.?


I guess we have it rather lucky. My wife is a night stocker for Kroger, so she can get our essentials before the store opens to the public. My job remains essential as we provide infrastructure and support to state and local governments, as well as financial firms and phamaceutical companies. We are both exhausted from all the extra time being put in, but it is what it is. Beats the alternative.


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## Cathie G

Mizcreant said:


> I guess we have it rather lucky. My wife is a night stocker for Kroger, so she can get our essentials before the store opens to the public. My job remains essential as we provide infrastructure and support to state and local governments, as well as financial firms and phamaceutical companies. We are both exhausted from all the extra time being put in, but it is what it is. Beats the alternative.


Yes. I'll wait until I actually need something. I always stay a little stocked anyway just so I can pick my day for an outting.


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## ZippyButter

Hope this song will lighten up a bit the situation that we're all in at the moment.
youtube.com/watch?v=BtulL3oArQw


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## Blackdog1714

Markw84 said:


> Have you been following at all what has been going on in Italy for example??
> 
> The real life Sophie's choice has come to fruition. Drs have to decide who lives and who dies. All the hospital beds are full and they have been using anything they can get their hands on. No more critical care space. No more ventilators. 100s of new critical patients coming in per day, and they have to decide which few of those, they can even treat and leave others to die. 627 died just yesterday from this. Decisions are being made based mostly on expected life expectancy of the patient.
> 
> It will get at least that bad here or worse if we don't do something to mitigate the spread of this virus. We cannot stop it, but by extreme measures to try to limit as much social contact as possible, there is a good chance we can give the medical system needed time to get better equipped to handle it. If we would have continued to do nothing and simply business as usual, all the real science I have read (not the political rhetoric) points to our medical system being totally overwhelmed by mid April. The difference with this "shelter in place" strategy and closing non-essential business is huge! To do everything we can to limit the number of critical cases to a number our system can handle is imperative.
> 
> As an example - do you know we have about 170,000 ventilators in the entire US? One of the most primary life saving devices for someone critical with a SARS type virus. Unchecked, the number of critical cases by mid June would likely climb to over 1 million. Who wants to choose who gets a ventilator and who is left without to die?
> 
> Yes, the virulent other flu strains have killed 100,000 people in a year. But that is with the general population and our leaders simply not caring that "some" would die. No preventative measures except flu vaccines. No quarantines, poor social and cleanliness habits by us all. But those flues have a fatality rate of about 0.1%. We are seeing COVID-19 with 6% fatality rates in areas with overwhelmed medical systems. No vaccine. No general population resistance or immunity.
> 
> Brenda has to go to work - she set up 4 COVID-19 testing locations here so far - 2 drive through and 2 ER extensions. Hospitals are scrambling to try to get ready for the potential crush. IT is indeed real!
> 
> It is tempting to feel better by blaming a conspiracy theory, or political agenda. But can you imagine the extreme amount of convincing it would take to get these "political career ending" measures enacted?
> 
> Although I don't like the terrible effect it will have on business, my retirement stocks, having to shelter in place, I do agree it is necessary. I don't want to see the doctors here having to decide who lives and who dies simply because we don't have the capacity to handle the number of cases because we treat this just like the "flu".


You took the words outa mouth! Their are so many hospitals that do not have a policy in place for deciding who gets a ventilator! Hope you don’t go in at the same time a famous person does?


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## Blackdog1714

ZEROPILOT said:


> There have also been reports showing that people with certain blood types are more or less likely to contract the virus.
> And that men are much more likely than women to have issues with it.
> I've been looking for the article in print. I heard it on the radio while driving.
> I can't vouch for it's authenticity


That I have trouble believing since type A blood is almost nonexistent in Asia! As A- Asia is a no visit for me!


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## ZenHerper

ZEROPILOT said:


> There have also been reports showing that people with certain blood types are more or less likely to contract the virus.
> ...



Yeah, that is not an actual fact.

It is far too soon to identify such a narrow sub-group. We are far too early and need to collect a lot more data. We don't have enough tests to do a proper study, so we have to wait until the random chips fall into place.

It is true that, among known-infected people hospitalized with complications, men are currently dying in higher numbers. There is no way to conjecture why at this point.


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## Maggie3fan

Toddrickfl1 said:


> Maggie you definitely strike me as someone I wouldn't want to mess with. Lol



Don't poke the bear...LMAO...


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## Turtulas-Len

I hear on the tv that people are testing positive for the virus that to their knowledge they have not had contact with anyone carrying it. I have not heard anyone mention the possibility that the virus could be living on the mail people receive from the USPS. Cash transactions are no longer accepted at some businesses because of the possibility of it being contaminated with the virus.


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## ZenHerper

Turtulas-Len said:


> I hear on the tv that people are testing positive for the virus that to their knowledge they have not had contact with anyone carrying it. I have not heard anyone mention the possibility that the virus could be living on the mail people receive from the USPS. Cash transactions are no longer accepted at some businesses because of the possibility of it being contaminated with the virus.



This is called "community spread". It is happening because a significant number of infected people are moving around coughing virus particles into the air and onto surfaces.

This virus will live on plastic and stainless steel surfaces for several days, at least. When you grip a shopping cart handle, you pick up virus particles on your hands. When you unconsciously touch your face, you transfer virus to/near your nose, mouth, eyes. Then it is a short trip into your sinuses and throat.









COVID-19 can last a few days on surfaces, according to new experiment findings


New government-funded experiment shows that the virus can survive on surfaces such as plastic and stainless steel for up to three days.




abcnews.go.com





Cardboard is holding live virus for several hours...there is not enough data to say very much about other paper or similarly drying surfaces (virus particles need to stay a bit hydrated). Open packages outdoors, if possible, and wash your hands...pretty much all damn day.

If you can get some disposable gloves for shopping and money handling, this is a helpful layer of protection and reminds you to avoid touching your face before you wash your hands. Use gloves a single time. After you put the cart back in the rack, pull the gloves off away from your face inside-out, and throw them away. Most stores have trash cans outside.

Masks do NOT prevent infection from the air because virus particles in the air can get stuck to your eyeballs. From there, it is a short trip to your sinuses as your tears drain down. (Medical professionals wear goggles to shield their eyes.) Stay at least 6 feet away from all people you do not currently live with. Follow your state's guidelines about staying home and limiting exposure.

There is NO evidence of a racial component to infection, resistance, lung disease, or risk of death. Any racist rhetoric is just the same tired hate speech our species has been steeping in for the past 10,000 years.


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## Toddrickfl1

I think a lot of us need a good laugh. I found this pretty funny.


----------



## ZenHerper




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## Maro2Bear

ZenHerper said:


> Yeah, that is not an actual fact.
> 
> It is far too soon to identify such a narrow sub-group. We are far too early and need to collect a lot more data. We don't have enough tests to do a proper study, so we have to wait until the random chips fall into place.
> 
> It is true that, among known-infected people hospitalized with complications, men are currently dying in higher numbers. There is no way to conjecture why at this point.



Maybe men are more social & active in closer knit groups. Poker games, bocci ball, backgammon games....etc.?


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## ZenHerper

Maro2Bear said:


> Maybe men are more social & active in closer knit groups. Poker games, bocci ball, backgammon games....etc.?



Men are not showing a greater infection rate.

Women and men are having equivalent numbers of positive test results. They are even being admitted to hospitals at equivalent rates, for similar symptoms.

Men are DYING at twice the rate of women. There are lots and lots of possible reasons why this is happening, but, again, we won't likely know for sure until we are post-emergency stages, and there is a good deal of data to analyze.

In countries where things are completely out of control, there are no autopsies being done, so no data will be coming with regard to whether men's lung tissue is more susceptible to fatal complications, or how infection/bacterial & fungal co-infection is interacting with co-morbid conditions (heart disease, etc.).

Any source speaking with certainty on this is lying. And either a disinformation bot/troll or a victim of disinformation (circulated by foreign agents or science-illiterates in Washington, D.C.).


----------



## Connie Jo

ZEROPILOT said:


> Guns, religion and politics are just too hot topics.
> Everyone has a side and everyone absolutely knows they're right.


Hang in there everyone, stay safe & steady....


----------



## ZEROPILOT

As of today, all beaches in Palm beach, Broward and Dade counties have been ordered closed.
Also ALL non essential businesses.
Funny, because I saw a wig shop that was opened.
So, I'm not sure who decides what is actually essential.
I also sold a motorcycle frame and went inside the bank to deposit the check. There are signs saying that no one can withdraw more than $2,500.
Lots of folks are doing a cash grab. I'm pretty sure that is just not needed. But, it's a thing.


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## JoeWells

ZenHerper said:


> Men are not showing a greater infection rate.
> 
> Women and men are having equivalent numbers of positive test results. They are even being admitted to hospitals at equivalent rates, for similar symptoms.
> 
> Men are DYING at twice the rate of women. There are lots and lots of possible reasons why this is happening, but, again, we won't likely know for sure until we are post-emergency stages, and there is a good deal of data to analyze.
> 
> In countries where things are completely out of control, there are no autopsies being done, so no data will be coming with regard to whether men's lung tissue is more susceptible to fatal complications, or how infection/bacterial & fungal co-infection is interacting with co-morbid conditions (heart disease, etc.).
> 
> Any source speaking with certainty on this is lying. And either a disinformation bot/troll or a victim of disinformation (circulated by foreign agents or science-illiterates in Washington, D.C.).



Maybe smoking cigarettes has something to do with the death tolls between men and women. It seems to me, at this day in age, there are more male smokers than female smokers. Having lung failure of some sort would greatly increase your mortality probability I would imagine. I’m sure someone is looking into it somewhere. I’m very interested in finding out all the details down the road, probably way down the road


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## JoeWells

Does anyone know why when I reply to a post my message ends up in the sub post? It only does it sometimes. I’m using my phone. No computer


----------



## ZenHerper

JoeWells said:


> Maybe smoking cigarettes has something to do with the death tolls between men and women. It seems to me, at this day in age, there are more male smokers than female smokers. Having lung failure of some sort would greatly increase your mortality probability I would imagine. I’m sure someone is looking into it somewhere. I’m very interested in finding out all the details down the road, probably way down the road



Currents smoking percentages between men and women in the U.S. are not statistically different:









Fact Sheets on Smoking and Tobacco Use


Fast facts on smoking and tobacco use, as well as fact sheets by topic, such as Health Effects, Secondhand Smoke, and Youth Tobacco Use.




www.cdc.gov





Male usage of e-cigarettes does seem to outpace that of women:









QuickStats: Percentage* of Adults Aged ≥18 Years Who ...


In 2016, 3.8% of men and 2.6% of women aged ≥18 years currently used e-cigarettes.




www.cdc.gov





Though smoking does predispose the lungs to complications, a history of smoking does not on its face sufficiently explain why women are twice as able to recover from COVID-(20)19 with medical support than men. A very significant number of people being hospitalized have no pre-disposing condition; young children and infants are being diagnosed and are ill enough to be hospitalized. Events are evolving rapidly in many directions.

In order to get into the finer points of why all the whys, the CDC will have to call in all of the patient files, have the data compiled, and analyzed for trends in any of the population variables. Easier done now with computers, but still quite the job. 

This assumes the CDC is at all interested in and willing to do the study. When my mother's doctor diagnosed her with Lyme Disease in the 1980s, he asked her if she wanted him to report her case to the CDC. He preferred not to since the process was arduous and resulted in a giant hassle.


----------



## jaizei

JoeWells said:


> Does anyone know why when I reply to a post my message ends up in the sub post? It only does it sometimes. I’m using my phone. No computer



It looked like you deleted part of the ending quote tag [/quote], and the forums software automatically added one to the end of your post to avoid messing up the whole page.


----------



## JoeWells

ZenHerper said:


> Currents smoking percentages between men and women in the U.S. are not statistically different:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fact Sheets on Smoking and Tobacco Use
> 
> 
> Fast facts on smoking and tobacco use, as well as fact sheets by topic, such as Health Effects, Secondhand Smoke, and Youth Tobacco Use.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.cdc.gov
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Male usage of e-cigarettes does seem to outpace that of women:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> QuickStats: Percentage* of Adults Aged ≥18 Years Who ...
> 
> 
> In 2016, 3.8% of men and 2.6% of women aged ≥18 years currently used e-cigarettes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.cdc.gov
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Though smoking does predispose the lungs to complications, a history of smoking does not on its face sufficiently explain why women are twice as able to recover from COVID-(20)19 with medical support than men. A very significant number of people being hospitalized have no pre-disposing condition; young children and infants are being diagnosed and are ill enough to be hospitalized. Events are evolving rapidly in many directions.
> 
> In order to get into the finer points of why all the whys, the CDC will have to call in all of the patient files, have the data compiled, and analyzed for trends in any of the population variables. Easier done now with computers, but still quite the job.
> 
> This assumes the CDC is at all interested in and willing to do the study. When my mother's doctor diagnosed her with Lyme Disease in the 1980s, he asked her if she wanted him to report her case to the CDC. He preferred not to since the process was arduous and resulted in a giant hassle.


Interesting. Those numbers are way closer then I would have imagined. Thank you for the research. I’m once again at a loss


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## JoeWells

jaizei said:


> It looked like you deleted part of the ending quote tag [/ quote], and the forums software automatically added one to the end of your post to avoid messing up the whole page.


Much appreciated


----------



## Yvonne G

Blackdog1714 said:


> That I have trouble believing since type A blood is almost nonexistent in Asia! As A- Asia is a no visit for me!


Yeah, Ed. I also heard that more men die from the virus than women.


----------



## Yvonne G

Turtulas-Len said:


> I hear on the tv that people are testing positive for the virus that to their knowledge they have not had contact with anyone carrying it. I have not heard anyone mention the possibility that the virus could be living on the mail people receive from the USPS. Cash transactions are no longer accepted at some businesses because of the possibility of it being contaminated with the virus.


 This from a Harvard education site:

*How long can the coronavirus that causes COVID-19 survive on surfaces?*

A recent study found that the COVID-19 coronavirus can survive up to four hours on copper, up to 24 hours on cardboard, and up to two to three days on plastic and stainless steel. The researchers also found that this virus can hang out as droplets in the air for up to three hours before they fall. But most often they will fall more quickly.

There's a lot we still don't know, such as how different conditions, such as exposure to sunlight, heat, or cold, can affect these survival times.

As we learn more, continue to follow the CDC's recommendations for cleaning frequently touched surfaces and objects every day. These include counters, tabletops, doorknobs, bathroom fixtures, toilets, phones, keyboards, tablets, and bedside tables.

If surfaces are dirty, first clean them using a detergent and water, then disinfect them. A list of products suitable for use against COVID-19 is available here. This list has been pre-approved by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) for use during the COVID-19 outbreak.

In addition, wash your hands for 20 seconds with soap and water after bringing in packages, or after trips to the grocery store or other places where you may have come into contact with infected surfaces.


----------



## Toddrickfl1

ZenHerper said:


> Men are not showing a greater infection rate.
> 
> Women and men are having equivalent numbers of positive test results. They are even being admitted to hospitals at equivalent rates, for similar symptoms.
> 
> Men are DYING twice as often from complications.


I saw a special the other day about an ICU in Italy. Out of 20 something people in there, only one was female.


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## ZenHerper

Toddrickfl1 said:


> I saw a special the other day about an ICU in Italy. Out of 20 something people in there, only one was female.



Yeah, the gendered death rate is the one thing we know for sure is happening because of the binary identification of patients.

Although, since the situation in Italy is so dire, we can't rule out a sexist bias in choosing who gets life-saving equipment and efforts...


----------



## Pistachio's Pamperer

New Mexico got the orders about an hour and a half ago to keep their butts at home and for nonessential businesses to close the doors. One of my national guard friends hasn’t been answering phone calls or text and didn’t show up to her 9-5 job. 

So here we go. 

I am not able to stay at home as my job is viewed essential critical. Cross yr fingers or say some prayers for me plz. 

-Meg


----------



## Toddrickfl1

Pistachio's Pamperer said:


> New Mexico got the orders about an hour and a half ago to keep their butts at home and for nonessential businesses to close the doors. One of my national guard friends hasn’t been answering phone calls or text and didn’t show up to her 9-5 job.
> 
> So here we go.
> 
> I am not able to stay at home as my job is viewed essential critical. Cross yr fingers or say some prayers for me plz.
> 
> -Meg


Best of luck, stay safe out there.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Yvonne G said:


> Yeah, Ed. I also heard that more men die from the virus than women.


I guess we won't know any real numbers for a while. Just local statistics.


----------



## Tom

There is no doubt that this virus will eventually be in contact with everyone, and it will run its course. Just like the flu, millions have been exposed, while only a small percentage show symptoms, and an even smaller fraction of those exposed have life threatening complications. A friend of ours that was visiting from out of state just got a call from the CDC this morning informing her that she does indeed have the virus. She contracted it on the plane ride home from here and we are outside the "window" of time that would make them concerned about us. Meanwhile she's had tons of friends and family coming and going from her house while she's been sick and showing symptoms. If this thing is airborne for hours and lives on surfaces for days, there is no way for any of us to avoid contact with it.

On a scary note, the CDC lady knew everything about where our friend had been for the last few weeks, and knew many details about her daily life that our friend never told anyone. If there is anyone who doesn't think we are living in Orwell's 1984, let this be your wake up call. WAKE UP! Big Brother is watching.

Hopefully, the rate of infected people needing serious medical help won't overwhelm the system as it has in Italy. Once everyone has been exposed and the rate of new cases starts declining, we can all go back to work and our normal lives. I can't imagine, given how this thing spreads, that anyone I know has not already been exposed to it. I know several people that had the symptoms, recovered, and figured they just had a bad cold or the flu, before this thing was really known. I think that if everyone was tested, we'd be shocked at how many have already had exposure.


----------



## queen koopa

Maro2Bear said:


> Maybe men are more social & active in closer knit groups. Poker games, bocci ball, backgammon games....etc.?


Yeah. Men are in general more unhealthy then women. I am a server. I get to hear and see everything men divulge about their diets (and of course personal experience) This may be a bit much but Erectile Dysfunction is a pre existing health condition that is a precursor to heart disease and stroke. And if anyone in America has watched TV for more than 30 minutes in the past 5-10 yrs you will see the commercials for ED and makes you think that it is very common health condition.


----------



## Toddrickfl1

Tom said:


> There is no doubt that this virus will eventually be in contact with everyone, and it will run its course. Just like the flu, millions have been exposed, while only a small percentage show symptoms, and an even smaller fraction of those exposed have life threatening complications. A friend of ours that was visiting from out of state just got a call from the CDC this morning informing her that she does indeed have the virus. She contracted it on the plane ride home from here and we are outside the "window" of time that would make them concerned about us. Meanwhile she's had tons of friends and family coming and going from her house while she's been sick and showing symptoms. If this thing is airborne for hours and lives on surfaces for days, there is no way for any of us to avoid contact with it.
> 
> On a scary note, the CDC lady knew everything about where our friend had been for the last few weeks, and knew many details about her daily life that our friend never told anyone. If there is anyone who doesn't think we are living in Orwell's 1984, let this be your wake up call. WAKE UP! Big Brother is watching.
> 
> Hopefully, the rate of infected people needing serious medical help won't overwhelm the system as it has in Italy. Once everyone has been exposed and the rate of new cases starts declining, we can all go back to work and our normal lives. I can't imagine, given how this thing spreads, that anyone I know has not already been exposed to it. I know several people that had the symptoms, recovered, and figured they just had a bad cold or the flu, before this thing was really known. I think that if everyone was tested, we'd be shocked at how many have already had exposure.


There was a lot of talk here in GA back in January about a "weird Flu"going around. Me and a couple of the guys at work even joked with a couple worker saying maybe it's Coronavirus. In retrospect, I think it's entirely possible it was.


----------



## ZenHerper

Toddrickfl1 said:


> There was a lot of talk here in GA back in January about a "weird Flu"going around. Me and a couple of the guys at work even joked with a couple worker saying maybe it's Coronavirus. In retrospect, I think it's entirely possible it was.



South Korea has kicked COVID-19 butt. They were more proactive about mass-disinfection of public spaces. Their health authority has plenty of tests (tests everyone), and they use phone telemetry to push notice everyone a positive phone crossed paths with. Then everyone is quarantined. This was a nationwide system; people have been cooperative and uncomplaining about protecting the entire population.









COVID-19 hit South Korea and the U.S. on the same day. Here's what Korea did right.


The U.S. and South Korea both confirmed their first cases of new coronavirus on Jan. 21. South Korea's epidemic seems to have already peaked, while the U.S. is girding for public health, financial, and social crises. The key to South Korea's relative success is testing, and South Korea's...




news.yahoo.com





Because we are working with a limited number of tests, we cannot hope to deploy this system.


----------



## Turtulas-Len

I ventured out to the 2 grocery stores here in the beach area this morning. No bread, eggs, milk, paper towels, toilet paper, or carrots. Still had plenty of cigarettes, beer, cat treats and wine. I spent about $180,00 and I don't need to go back out for about 2 months now.


----------



## ZenHerper

Turtulas-Len said:


> I ventured out to the 2 grocery stores here in the beach area this morning. No bread, eggs, milk, paper towels, toilet paper, or carrots. Still had plenty of cigarettes, beer, cat treats and wine. I spent about $180,00 and I don't need to go back out for about 2 months now.



Stock outages continue to "roll" up here. No meat last week, better on Sunday.

The stay-at-home order has helped: I saw various brands of TP (don't need it - grabbed 2 months backup when things went mad 2 weeks ago) in Walmart while looking for Sugar Glider water (found purified gallon, so OK). Retailers are limiting one unit per purchase of things that keep zeroing out.

All retailers are set to Immediately hire anyone on work stoppage.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

O.K.
It's like this...
I've had my cough, sore throat and inability to taste food for several weeks or longer.
Yesterday and today I've taken about 10 showers, I'm very sweaty and my wife demanded to take my temperature. Its 101.7.
So, I've got something. But what?
My primary doctor says because my breathing is not compromised that I should just self isolate. (Over the phone)
I'm not sure if I should get tested or not because I feel pretty decent. And this is just as likely not Covid19


----------



## Yvonne G

ZEROPILOT said:


> O.K.
> It's like this...
> I've had my cough, sore throat and inability to taste food for several weeks or longer.
> Yesterday and today I've taken about 10 showers, I'm very sweaty and my wife demanded to take my temperature. Its 101.7.
> So, I've got something. But what?
> My primary doctor says because my breathing is not compromised that I should just self isolate. (Over the phone)
> I'm not sure if I should get tested or not because I feel pretty decent. And this is just as likely not Covid19


Since you've had this whatever for 'several weeks' I'd be willing to guess it's not Covid 19. From what I've read about the virus, it includes a pretty bad headache and lower back ache.

Just do what you can to reduce the temperature and rest.


----------



## Blackdog1714

ZEROPILOT said:


> O.K.
> It's like this...
> I've had my cough, sore throat and inability to taste food for several weeks or longer.
> Yesterday and today I've taken about 10 showers, I'm very sweaty and my wife demanded to take my temperature. Its 101.7.
> So, I've got something. But what?
> My primary doctor says because my breathing is not compromised that I should just self isolate. (Over the phone)
> I'm not sure if I should get tested or not because I feel pretty decent. And this is just as likely not Covid19


Oh no! They say the loss of taste is a sign of COVID! Take care of yourself


----------



## Toddrickfl1

ZEROPILOT said:


> O.K.
> It's like this...
> I've had my cough, sore throat and inability to taste food for several weeks or longer.
> Yesterday and today I've taken about 10 showers, I'm very sweaty and my wife demanded to take my temperature. Its 101.7.
> So, I've got something. But what?
> My primary doctor says because my breathing is not compromised that I should just self isolate. (Over the phone)
> I'm not sure if I should get tested or not because I feel pretty decent. And this is just as likely not Covid19


Oh no, hope it's something else man. I'll be sending good thoughts your way. My aunt in Oakland Park is also sick and her doctor is advising the same thing.


----------



## ZenHerper

ZEROPILOT said:


> O.K.
> It's like this...
> I've had my cough, sore throat and inability to taste food for several weeks or longer.
> Yesterday and today I've taken about 10 showers, I'm very sweaty and my wife demanded to take my temperature. Its 101.7.
> So, I've got something. But what?
> My primary doctor says because my breathing is not compromised that I should just self isolate. (Over the phone)
> I'm not sure if I should get tested or not because I feel pretty decent. And this is just as likely not Covid19



Yeah, it sucks to not have the basic option to test and be sure.

The FDA has apparently just approved the at-home test, so google that for grins.

If you have any change in your breathing, your fever spikes or continues (use tylenol NOT ibuprophen - still research this rumor), or your wife has a gut sense that you are not Just Ordinary Sick, then nag your primary care.

((Hugs))


----------



## Tom

What's the latest on the malaria drug/Z pack combo to treat this? Saw that a few days ago and haven't heard much since. Seems like that should be big news. At the time there was a lot of anecdotal evidence to support it. NY Doc on TV said that his hospital had not lost once single patient out of more than 300 confirmed cases since they started treating with this combo.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

ZenHerper said:


> Yeah, it sucks to not have the basic option to test and be sure.
> 
> The FDA has apparently just approved the at-home test, so google that for grins.
> 
> If you have any change in your breathing, your fever spikes or continues (use tylenol NOT ibuprophen - still research this rumor), or your wife has a gut sense that you are not Just Ordinary Sick, then nag your primary care.
> 
> ((Hugs))


As of right now, my primary doctors office isnt answering the phone.
It rings twice and disconnects.
I'll see if the fever goes up or down overnight.
I feel pretty good. And my breathing is fine.
In fact, if that virus wasn't out there, I wouldn't pay this much attention.
Since I do have a fever, no more going outside...


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Tom said:


> What's the latest on the malaria drug/Z pack combo to treat this? Saw that a few days ago and haven't heard much since. Seems like that should be big news. At the time there was a lot of anecdotal evidence to support it. NY Doc on TV said that his hospital had not lost once single patient out of more than 300 confirmed cases since they started treating with this combo.


It's my understanding that the CDC was reluctant to use anything that might cause the virus to mutate into a stronger, more resistant strain.
But I'm certainly no scientist


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Toddrickfl1 said:


> Oh no, hope it's something else man. I'll be sending good thoughts your way. My aunt in Oakland Park is also sick and her doctor is advising the same thing.


Thanks.
Its entirely likely that this IS something else.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Yvonne G said:


> Since you've had this whatever for 'several weeks' I'd be willing to guess it's not Covid 19. From what I've read about the virus, it includes a pretty bad headache and lower back ache.
> 
> Just do what you can to reduce the temperature and rest.


I forgot to mention the headaches because, like the back pain, it's there most of the time. Unrelated to any virus.
The cough is also something I've had for a long time.


----------



## Maro2Bear

Take care! I saw this earlier regarding lack of smell associated with COVID-19









Loss of smell could be a symptom of COVID-19


A sudden loss of smell is associated with some viral infections.




www.livescience.com





Sudden loss of a sense of smell could be a sign of a COVID-19 infection, doctors recently reported.
The complete loss of smell, or anosmia, is already associated with viruses; about 40% of anosmia cases occur after a viral infection, according to a statementpublished online on March 21 by ENT UK at The Royal College of Surgeons of England, an association of ear, nose and throat physicians in the United Kingdom.


----------



## ZenHerper

Tom said:


> What's the latest on the malaria drug/Z pack combo to treat this? Saw that a few days ago and haven't heard much since. Seems like that should be big news. At the time there was a lot of anecdotal evidence to support it. NY Doc on TV said that his hospital had not lost once single patient out of more than 300 confirmed cases since they started treating with this combo.



It has not been studied in any coherent way. If some patients are responding, great!

But that can't be taken as a blanket endorsement. What is safe for one group of people to take for a particular illness may not be safe under other circumstances. (Right now health organizations are scrambling to confirm/disprove the French Health Minister's claim that ibuprophen is compromising immune response against COVID-19.)

Efficacy is not the only thing on the table. What are the side effects in infected people? In critically ill patients? Are these side effects manageable, or not? Etc., etc., etc..

My understanding now is that the FDA has approved the combo for wider use in hospitals, so that will serve as a study population. I'm guessing patients will have to sign off to take it, and there may be insurance hoops.

This will result in shortages of these two drugs for patients who currently take them for serious health conditions.


----------



## Blackdog1714

RICHMOND, Va. (WWBT) - Virginia Commonwealth University researchers have started two clinical trials on a potential, experimental treatment for COVID-19. 
Dr. Arun Sanyal, a liver specialist and gastroenterologist, is leading the trials of an investigational drug for patients with moderate and severe symptoms of COVID-19 and the virus responsible for the disease, SARS-Cov-2.
The investigational antiviral was developed by Gilead Sciences Inc. and used experimentally to treat Ebola.

so maybe some possible good news! Sadly I now know where I am not going while at work!


----------



## Toddrickfl1

Tom said:


> What's the latest on the malaria drug/Z pack combo to treat this? Saw that a few days ago and haven't heard much since. Seems like that should be big news. At the time there was a lot of anecdotal evidence to support it. NY Doc on TV said that his hospital had not lost once single patient out of more than 300 confirmed cases since they started treating with this combo.


It doesn't help that some guy and his wife in Arizona consumed Fish Tank Cleaner yesterday to protect themselves from Coronavirus because one of the ingredients was chloroquine. The guy died and the woman is still hospitalized I think. **Insert Facepalm**


----------



## Cathie G

ZenHerper said:


> Men are not showing a greater infection rate.
> 
> Women and men are having equivalent numbers of positive test results. They are even being admitted to hospitals at equivalent rates, for similar symptoms.
> 
> Men are DYING at twice the rate of women. There are lots and lots of possible reasons why this is happening, but, again, we won't likely know for sure until we are post-emergency stages, and there is a good deal of data to analyze.
> 
> In countries where things are completely out of control, there are no autopsies being done, so no data will be coming with regard to whether men's lung tissue is more susceptible to fatal complications, or how infection/bacterial & fungal co-infection is interacting with co-morbid conditions (heart disease, etc.).
> 
> Any source speaking with certainty on this is lying. And either a disinformation bot/troll or a victim of disinformation (circulated by foreign agents or science-illiterates in Washington, D.C.).


Maybe it's because men are batty by nature?


----------



## Tom

Toddrickfl1 said:


> It doesn't help that some guy and his wife in Arizona consumed Fish Tank Cleaner yesterday to protect themselves from Coronavirus because one of the ingredients was chloroquine. The guy died and the woman is still hospitalized I think. **Insert Facepalm**


Possible contenders for this year's Darwin Awards...


----------



## Toddrickfl1

Tom said:


> Possible contenders for this year's Darwin Awards...


Lmao I can't believe you said that, I was going to say Darwinism at it's finest lol


----------



## Tom

Toddrickfl1 said:


> Lmao I can't believe you said that, I was going to say Darwinism at it's finest lol


I have a filter, but its tenuous at best. A lot of stuff gets by it.


----------



## Bee62

ZEROPILOT said:


> O.K.
> It's like this...
> I've had my cough, sore throat and inability to taste food for several weeks or longer.
> Yesterday and today I've taken about 10 showers, I'm very sweaty and my wife demanded to take my temperature. Its 101.7.
> So, I've got something. But what?
> My primary doctor says because my breathing is not compromised that I should just self isolate. (Over the phone)
> I'm not sure if I should get tested or not because I feel pretty decent. And this is just as likely not Covid19


You are strong, Ed. You will be healthy again soon whatever it is. I am sure. Your wife and Suki take good care of you. I am wishing you all the best.


----------



## Cathie G

Pistachio's Pamperer said:


> New Mexico got the orders about an hour and a half ago to keep their butts at home and for nonessential businesses to close the doors. One of my national guard friends hasn’t been answering phone calls or text and didn’t show up to her 9-5 job.
> 
> So here we go.
> 
> I am not able to stay at home as my job is viewed essential critical. Cross yr fingers or say some prayers for me plz.
> 
> -Meg


I will.


----------



## Cathie G

Tom said:


> What's the latest on the malaria drug/Z pack combo to treat this? Saw that a few days ago and haven't heard much since. Seems like that should be big news. At the time there was a lot of anecdotal evidence to support it. NY Doc on TV said that his hospital had not lost once single patient out of more than 300 confirmed cases since they started treating with this combo.


The z pack is encouraging to me because I can't take any other antibiotics. Possibly, the lung thing that's killing everyone is a secondary infection. Just a theory...


----------



## ZenHerper

Time to be extra alert against phone and email scams.

Topics include: home tests, vaccines, medications, charities.

Never give personal or financial information to a company you did not call from their established phone number.

Never click links in emails...go to a clean tab and enter the address of the company or bank you do business with. The CDC and other government authorities will never contact you by phone or email.


----------



## Bee62

Cathie G said:


> The z pack is encouraging to me because I can't take any other antibiotics. Possibly, the lung thing that's killing everyone is a secondary infection. Just a theory...


Can you get this in the UK ( or my friends in America too ) ???
https://www.delmed.de/product/echin...MI4rXQz4e06AIVyrHtCh3X7glgEAQYASABEgIHUPD_BwE
The echinacea juice can support your immune system.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Bee62 said:


> You are strong, Ed. You will be healthy again soon whatever it is. I am sure. Your wife and Suki take good care of you. I am wishing you all the best.


I'm sure.
Thanks


----------



## ZEROPILOT

We just found out that there is no Tylenol out there, either.


----------



## ZenHerper

ZEROPILOT said:


> We just found out that there is no Tylenol out there, either.



Walmart seems to have it:









Equate Acetaminophen Extended-Release Tablets, 650 mg, Pain Reliever/Fever Reducer, 225 Caplets - Walmart.com


Not available Buy Equate Acetaminophen Extended-Release Tablets, 650 mg, Pain Reliever/Fever Reducer, 225 Caplets at Walmart.com



www.walmart.com


----------



## Cathie G

Bee62 said:


> Can you get this in the UK ( or my friends in America too ) ???
> https://www.delmed.de/product/echin...MI4rXQz4e06AIVyrHtCh3X7glgEAQYASABEgIHUPD_BwE
> The echinacea juice can support your immune system.


I already have several bottles of liquid Echinacea. I keep it in my home always but have been afraid to recommend it because it's controversial. ?


----------



## Bee62

Cathie G said:


> I already have several bottles of liquid Echinacea. I keep it in my home always but have been afraid to recommend it because it's controversial. ?


Controversial to your other meds ? What do you have to take every day ( meds ) ?


----------



## ZenHerper

Bee62 said:


> Controversial to your other meds ? What do you have to take every day ( meds ) ?



It does alter immune function, and some people can be allergic. Not safe for all people under all circumstances.

But not regulated - anyone can get it. =))


----------



## Blackdog1714

I take elderberry gummies. They also include zinc, vitamin C and echinacea so they should help boost the immune system


----------



## Bee62

ZenHerper said:


> It does alter immune function, and some people can be allergic. Not safe for all people under all circumstances.
> 
> But not regulated - anyone can get it. =))


I know. But it is a good source to strenghten your immune system. Since the corvid virus spread around the world I take my daily dose of echinacea.


----------



## Bee62

Blackdog1714 said:


> I take elderberry gummies. They also include zinc, vitamin C and echinacea so they should help boost the immune system


Sounds good !


----------



## Cathie G

ZenHerper said:


> Stock outages continue to "roll" up here. No meat last week, better on Sunday.
> 
> The stay-at-home order has helped: I saw various brands of TP (don't need it - grabbed 2 months backup when things went mad 2 weeks ago) in Walmart while looking for Sugar Glider water (found purified gallon, so OK). Retailers are limiting one unit per purchase of things that keep zeroing out.
> 
> All retailers are set to Immediately hire anyone on work stoppage.


I agree the stay at home order is somewhat working. I still can't get my regular tp though which sucks. I managed to get distilled so I don't have to destroy my humidifiers by using tap. I saw a woman using her coat over her nose as a mask to protect herself from our germiness. She wasn't wearing goggles so what good did that do. I saw an elderly man touching every cucumber until he found the one he wanted. People really and truely aren't complying though they are trying with what they understand. It's a sad thing to watch.


----------



## jaizei

ZEROPILOT said:


> We just found out that there is no Tylenol out there, either.



If you absolutely need it, look for first aid kits.


----------



## queen koopa

I noticed a lot more cleaing going on prior to shut down. Atms, gas stations, grocery stores which is great! I feel that helped here.
I have not ventured into vegas but I’ve heard there is tons of people just hanging out on the strip.. interesting. I also got an update from the culinary union, 60,000 people not working. Unemployment must be insane. Everything was done online here in NV for filing unemployment and people cannot contact unemployment by phone and if you have an issue with your online application, the wait to get a call back is 2 weeks almost.


----------



## ZenHerper

Cathie G said:


> ... I saw an elderly man touching every cucumber until he found the one he wanted. ...



Yeah, unfortunately fresh, raw produce is pretty much off my menu, foreseeable...


----------



## Tom

Cathie G said:


> I managed to get distilled so I don't have to destroy my humidifiers by using tap.



You can use rain water too. No minerals. I collect it big tubs and run it through an aquarium canister filter with a fine micron cartridge and store it in 5 gallon jugs. I use this for spraying the tortoise carapaces and enclosures to avoid hard water stains. I soak them in tap or well water for the minerals, and then rinse them with the rain water after their soaks.


----------



## Cathie G

Tom said:


> You can use rain water too. No minerals. I collect it big tubs and run it through an aquarium canister filter with a fine micron cartridge and store it in 5 gallon jugs. I use this for spraying the tortoise carapaces and enclosures to avoid hard water stains. I soak them in tap or well water for the minerals, and then rinse them with the rain water after their soaks.


Thank you for your reply. You are so right. We're about to get rainy days so I'll be able to stock up on rain water for my humidifiers at the least. We're only allowed 3 items of water now. I've been buying it by the gallon to stop using so much plastic. I refuse to go back to buying water in the little bottles even though I could actually get a lot more doing that. Our tap is so bad it will grow red algae. It's supposedly safe. I'm about to pull a Maggie at my favorite grocery store. They are supposedly supporting the clean up the plastic effort...hehehe


----------



## Cathie G

Blackdog1714 said:


> I take elderberry gummies. They also include zinc, vitamin C and echinacea so they should help boost the immune system


Yes. Airborne used to have Echinacea too. Someone gave me some recently and it didn't have Echinacea anymore so I won't be using it. I've read a little about elderberry and it looked really good. I just have always had such good results with straight liquid Echinacea that I must be addicted. I rarely use it, but once I do, I use it for a very long time. After what I saw today, I took some tonight.


----------



## Turtulas-Len

Yvonne G said:


> This from a Harvard education site:
> 
> *How long can the coronavirus that causes COVID-19 survive on surfaces?*
> 
> A recent study found that the COVID-19 coronavirus can survive up to four hours on copper, up to 24 hours on cardboard, and up to two to three days on plastic and stainless steel. The researchers also found that this virus can hang out as droplets in the air for up to three hours before they fall. But most often they will fall more quickly.
> 
> There's a lot we still don't know, such as how different conditions, such as exposure to sunlight, heat, or cold, can affect these survival times.
> 
> As we learn more, continue to follow the CDC's recommendations for cleaning frequently touched surfaces and objects every day. These include counters, tabletops, doorknobs, bathroom fixtures, toilets, phones, keyboards, tablets, and bedside tables.
> 
> If surfaces are dirty, first clean them using a detergent and water, then disinfect them. A list of products suitable for use against COVID-19 is available here. This list has been pre-approved by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) for use during the COVID-19 outbreak.
> 
> In addition, wash your hands for 20 seconds with soap and water after bringing in packages, or after trips to the grocery store or other places where you may have come into contact with infected surfaces.


The CDC released a statement today that traces of the virus were found in a room on one of those cruse ships 17 days after everyone was off it. No other details were given that I heard.


----------



## ZenHerper

Turtulas-Len said:


> The CDC released a statement today that traces of the virus were found in a room on one of those cruse ships 17 days after everyone was off it. No other details were given that I heard.



Unsurprising. And it highlights the importance of personal and environmental cleanliness, and of staying clear of public spaces.

If you own a business that has been suspended, take this opportunity to disinfect the heck out of every nook and cranny.

If you are just hanging around the house, ditto.

eta: Also, the U.S. federal 15-day plan? Baloney.


----------



## Cathie G

Bee62 said:


> Controversial to your other meds ? What do you have to take every day ( meds ) ?


Hello. It's controversial legally in our country to tell someone that you might be better off if you take a certain herb. Especially if you are selling them. If Echinacea interfers with a medicine I'm taking I'll stop the medicine first. I'm only taking 3. They would like to drug me with more. I do believe you should tell your doctor first though. I may have witnessed disastorous results from using both at the same time with some of the stronger herbs. I've seen Echinacea do miracles for animals also. It works.


----------



## Cathie G

Turtulas-Len said:


> The CDC released a statement today that traces of the virus were found in a room on one of those cruse ships 17 days after everyone was off it. No other details were given that I heard.


What better environment could a virus want? It's so nice and balmy on a ship.


----------



## ZenHerper

Death of a child in Los Angeles being investigated for COVID-19 involvement:









Los Angeles health officials say a child under 18 has died from the coronavirus


Local health officials said said 42% of the county's coronavirus patients are between 18 and 40 years old and 39% are between 41 and 65 years old.




www.cnbc.com





L.A.'s Director of Health says their hospitalization rate of known-infected patients is 18% (nearly 1 out of every 5).


----------



## JoeWells

Well, Im officially one of the 3.4 million people to file for unemployment. I never thought in 100 years I would ever have to do this. I was pretty bummed at first but it immediately switched to being thankful and grateful for the fact we live in a place where we have something like this to fall back on. I live paycheck to paycheck so it was my last option. There’s always a good side to everything. I get to spend a ton of time with my daughter and I still have a roof over my head and food on the table. It’s a lot more than others have. Just think of all those happy torts and turtles out there! They’re getting soooo much extra attention!


----------



## Tom

Cathie G said:


> Maybe it's because men are batty by nature?


I LOVE bats!


----------



## ZEROPILOT

The news is pretty confusing.
The experts are saying that the worst is still weeks away. But our administration keeps hinting that this will all pass by mid April.
Maybe I'll watch the cartoon network.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

JoeWells said:


> Well, Im officially one of the 3.4 million people to file for unemployment. I never thought in 100 years I would ever have to do this. I was pretty bummed at first but it immediately switched to being thankful and grateful for the fact we live in a place where we have something like this to fall back on. I live paycheck to paycheck so it was my last option. There’s always a good side to everything. I get to spend a ton of time with my daughter and I still have a roof over my head and food on the table. It’s a lot more than others have. Just think of all those happy torts and turtles out there! They’re getting soooo much extra attention!


Man. You are so not alone.


----------



## Tom

JoeWells said:


> Well, Im officially one of the 3.4 million people to file for unemployment. I never thought in 100 years I would ever have to do this. I was pretty bummed at first but it immediately switched to being thankful and grateful for the fact we live in a place where we have something like this to fall back on. I live paycheck to paycheck so it was my last option. There’s always a good side to everything. I get to spend a ton of time with my daughter and I still have a roof over my head and food on the table. It’s a lot more than others have. Just think of all those happy torts and turtles out there! They’re getting soooo much extra attention!


Same boat brother. 25 years I've been at this career and never needed unemployment. I figure that I've been paying into the system all these years, I might as well get something back out of it when I need it. My entire industry is completely shut down for the foreseeable future.


----------



## Tom

ZEROPILOT said:


> The news is pretty confusing.
> The experts are saying that the worst is still weeks away. But our administration keeps hinting that this will all pass by mid April.
> Maybe I'll watch the cartoon network.


I highly recommend Rick and Morty on Adult Swim. Watch the episodes in order. Brilliant writing and executed excellently.


----------



## JoeWells

Tom said:


> I highly recommend Rick and Morty on Adult Swim. Watch the episodes in order. Brilliant writing and executed excellently.


Yes Tom! Epic show


----------



## Gijoux

When all is said and done the mortality rate for this particular version of the Coronavirus (SARS-CoV-2) will probably be less than 1%. We must remember that the statistics are all over the board right now because the PCR testing is unreliable, at best. It is a very sensitive test prone to false positives. The reason South Korea has the lowest apparent mortality rate is because they tested EVERYONE. We have only just begun to test people and so far we are only testing the very sick and dying. China quit testing their people with the PCR test because of the unreliability of the test and chose to rely on x-ray and ct scans of the lungs and labeled anyone with signs of pneumonia as COVID-19 positive. Our regular flu statistics are also unreliable as the CDC includes pneumonia cases in the flu statistics. People who die WITH this version of the coronavirus die from pneumonia. China found that treating their patients with IV Vitamin C helped the most.

Coronavirus has been around for well over 100 years and there are many different versions of coronavirus. This version is the newest. Whether it naturally occurred, was created accidentally or on purpose doesn't really matter. Efforts to find a vaccine for any coronavirus version have been a failure for over 50 years. The typical coronavirus is the cause of the common cold. We must remember that Virus' in general are an integral part of our human make-up. They are actually necessary to our survival. All this push to make a vaccine for every virus will end up doing more harm than good. 

This particular virus attaches to our Angiotensin Converting Enzyme 2 (ACE-2) receptors. The majority of these receptors are in the lungs, blood vessels and kidneys. Those individuals living in areas of high air pollution, like China (especially Wuhan) and Northern Italy (the worst air pollution in all of Europe) and those who smoke are more at risk, because they have an increased level of ACE-2 receptors in their lungs, as a result of the air pollution reducing the ACE-2 level itself. This is why the young are not as affected by this version of the coronavirus, because they haven't lived long enough to have developed the changes in their Renin-Angiotensin system and do not demonstrate an increase in ACE-2 receptors. Ibuprofen apparently interferes negatively with the Renin-Angiotensin system, which is why it has been said to be contraindicated for COVID-19 patients. Estradiol has a positive effect on ACE-2 activity resulting in more severe hypertension in men, thus the mortality for men with COVID-19 is 2 to 1 female. The genetic basis of ACE-2 expression and function, found on the X chromosome, in different populations is still largely unknown; but recent data indicate that homozygous mutation rates, on the ACE-2 related genes, of males (0.550) was much higher than females (0.310) in the Chinese population. Optimal Vitamin D3 levels (60-80) have been shown to have a very positive effect on the renin-angiotensin system lowering blood pressure, as well as supporting the immune system through improved T cell regulation. 

We know that the average age of death seen in those who have died WITH a COVID-19 positive test is 79.5 years of age. We know these people are all suffering from advanced cardiovascular disease, Hypertension and diabetes. What these people all have in common is concomitant illnesses, they are old and very sick to begin with. Many of them were going to die from pneumonia anyway, as it was just a matter of time. When you take an individual in this poor condition and then place them on antiviral drugs with all the dangerous side affects associated with them, perhaps the cure becomes worse than the disease. When you look at the rather "low" global death rate attributed to COVID-19 and consider the entire global population, it's shocking to many that the whole world is on lock-down, just for this. More people are dying from the regular flu. The most important statistic to look at however, is how many "more" deaths are occurring, then would be expected anyway, during any given period of time. Even though this has been considered "flu season", actually "fewer" people than normal have been dying from ALL causes, even before the quarantine measures were taken. This is an important statistic.

You may have noticed that I repeatedly stated that these patients have died WITH coronavirus rather than saying from coronavirus. We have NOT been doing the tests necessary to determine the actual cause of death in these people. This is a fact about this disease. We honestly don't know if it is the real, only cause of the deaths we are seeing posted. 

This "pandemic" has taught us some very important lessons: 
We are not prepared medically to handle a situation like this.
It turns out our Economy is quite fragile.
Apparently children can be taught at home through computers. Who knew?
Toilet paper, water and bread are very desirable.
Fear is a powerful motivator/controller of people. 
The air quality of China and Italy has improved greatly since the shut down of manufacturing.
China found a way to get their protesting people off the streets.
The people protesting mandatory vaccination in Northern Italy are off the streets.
Money is being dumped into the Vaccine Industry by the Billions.
We need to make sure that not all of our medications continue to be made only in China.
When you only test the very sick and dying your statistics make it look very deadly.
Apparently we can be diagnosed from home via FaceTime quite successfully.
Gas prices come down when people are staying home.

I am far more worried about how quickly and easily our "rights and freedom" have been taken away from us "For the Greater Good". I fear this whole thing has been a big distraction and/or experiment to determine how easily we can be controlled. I fear this is just the beginning. I hope we will still be allowed to keep our Tortoises.


----------



## Tom

Gijoux said:


> When all is said and done the mortality rate for this particular version of the Coronavirus (SARS-CoV-2) will probably be less than 1%. We must remember that the statistics are all over the board right now because the PCR testing is unreliable, at best. It is a very sensitive test prone to false positives. The reason South Korea has the lowest apparent mortality rate is because they tested EVERYONE. We have only just begun to test people and so far we are only testing the very sick and dying. China quit testing their people with the PCR test because of the unreliability of the test and chose to rely on x-ray and ct scans of the lungs and labeled anyone with signs of pneumonia as COVID-19 positive. Our regular flu statistics are also unreliable as the CDC includes pneumonia cases in the flu statistics. People who die WITH this version of the coronavirus die from pneumonia. China found that treating their patients with IV Vitamin C helped the most.
> 
> Coronavirus has been around for well over 100 years and there are many different versions of coronavirus. This version is the newest. Whether it naturally occurred, was created accidentally or on purpose doesn't really matter. Efforts to find a vaccine for any coronavirus version have been a failure for over 50 years. The typical coronavirus is the cause of the common cold. We must remember that Virus' in general are an integral part of our human make-up. They are actually necessary to our survival. All this push to make a vaccine for every virus will end up doing more harm than good.
> 
> This particular virus attaches to our Angiotensin Converting Enzyme 2 (ACE-2) receptors. The majority of these receptors are in the lungs, blood vessels and kidneys. Those individuals living in areas of high air pollution, like China (especially Wuhan) and Northern Italy (the worst air pollution in all of Europe) and those who smoke are more at risk, because they have an increased level of ACE-2 receptors in their lungs, as a result of the air pollution reducing the ACE-2 level itself. This is why the young are not as affected by this version of the coronavirus, because they haven't lived long enough to have developed the changes in their Renin-Angiotensin system and do not demonstrate an increase in ACE-2 receptors. Ibuprofen apparently interferes negatively with the Renin-Angiotensin system, which is why it has been said to be contraindicated for COVID-19 patients. Estradiol has a positive effect on ACE-2 activity resulting in more severe hypertension in men, thus the mortality for men with COVID-19 is 2 to 1 female. The genetic basis of ACE-2 expression and function, found on the X chromosome, in different populations is still largely unknown; but recent data indicate that homozygous mutation rates, on the ACE-2 related genes, of males (0.550) was much higher than females (0.310) in the Chinese population. Optimal Vitamin D3 levels (60-80) have been shown to have a very positive effect on the renin-angiotensin system lowering blood pressure, as well as supporting the immune system through improved T cell regulation.
> 
> We know that the average age of death seen in those who have died WITH a COVID-19 positive test is 79.5 years of age. We know these people are all suffering from advanced cardiovascular disease, Hypertension and diabetes. What these people all have in common is concomitant illnesses, they are old and very sick to begin with. Many of them were going to die from pneumonia anyway, as it was just a matter of time. When you take an individual in this poor condition and then place them on antiviral drugs with all the dangerous side affects associated with them, perhaps the cure becomes worse than the disease. When you look at the rather "low" global death rate attributed to COVID-19 and consider the entire global population, it's shocking to many that the whole world is on lock-down, just for this. More people are dying from the regular flu. The most important statistic to look at however, is how many "more" deaths are occurring, then would be expected anyway, during any given period of time. Even though this has been considered "flu season", actually "fewer" people than normal have been dying from ALL causes, even before the quarantine measures were taken. This is an important statistic.
> 
> You may have noticed that I repeatedly stated that these patients have died WITH coronavirus rather than saying from coronavirus. We have NOT been doing the tests necessary to determine the actual cause of death in these people. This is a fact about this disease. We honestly don't know if it is the real, only cause of the deaths we are seeing posted.
> 
> This "pandemic" has taught us some very important lessons:
> We are not prepared medically to handle a situation like this.
> It turns out our Economy is quite fragile.
> Apparently children can be taught at home through computers. Who knew?
> Toilet paper, water and bread are very desirable.
> Fear is a powerful motivator/controller of people.
> The air quality of China and Italy has improved greatly since the shut down of manufacturing.
> China found a way to get their protesting people off the streets.
> The people protesting mandatory vaccination in Northern Italy are off the streets.
> Money is being dumped into the Vaccine Industry by the Billions.
> We need to make sure that not all of our medications continue to be made only in China.
> When you only test the very sick and dying your statistics make it look very deadly.
> Apparently we can be diagnosed from home via FaceTime quite successfully.
> Gas prices come down when people are staying home.
> 
> I am far more worried about how quickly and easily our "rights and freedom" have been taken away from us "For the Greater Good". I fear this whole thing has been a big distraction and/or experiment to determine how easily we can be controlled. I fear this is just the beginning. I hope we will still be allowed to keep our Tortoises.


You just put into words what I have been feeling and simmering on for weeks, and you did it with unparalleled eloquence and candor. Thank you. I'm sharing this with fiends and family.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

No fever today.
I have no idea what I've got, but it's just some run of the mill ailment. And seems to be on it's way out.
I feel fine. So does Kelly.
I'll stay home today just in case.


----------



## ZenHerper

ZEROPILOT said:


> No fever today.
> I have no idea what I've got, but it's just some run of the mill ailment. And seems to be on it's way out.
> I feel fine. So does Kelly.
> I'll stay home today just in case.



That's good news - holding good thoughts for you both!


----------



## queen koopa

Tom said:


> You just put into words what I have been feeling and simmering on for weeks, and you did it with unparalleled eloquence and candor. Thank you. I'm sharing this with fiends and family.


Exactly. I too am sharing !


----------



## queen koopa

ZEROPILOT said:


> No fever today.
> I have no idea what I've got, but it's just some run of the mill ailment. And seems to be on it's way out.
> I feel fine. So does Kelly.
> I'll stay home today just in case.


 Good to hear!!!!


----------



## Bee62

ZEROPILOT said:


> No fever today.
> I have no idea what I've got, but it's just some run of the mill ailment. And seems to be on it's way out.
> I feel fine. So does Kelly.
> I'll stay home today just in case.


Good news to read !


----------



## Bee62

Gijoux said:


> When all is said and done the mortality rate for this particular version of the Coronavirus (SARS-CoV-2) will probably be less than 1%. We must remember that the statistics are all over the board right now because the PCR testing is unreliable, at best. It is a very sensitive test prone to false positives. The reason South Korea has the lowest apparent mortality rate is because they tested EVERYONE. We have only just begun to test people and so far we are only testing the very sick and dying. China quit testing their people with the PCR test because of the unreliability of the test and chose to rely on x-ray and ct scans of the lungs and labeled anyone with signs of pneumonia as COVID-19 positive. Our regular flu statistics are also unreliable as the CDC includes pneumonia cases in the flu statistics. People who die WITH this version of the coronavirus die from pneumonia. China found that treating their patients with IV Vitamin C helped the most.
> 
> Coronavirus has been around for well over 100 years and there are many different versions of coronavirus. This version is the newest. Whether it naturally occurred, was created accidentally or on purpose doesn't really matter. Efforts to find a vaccine for any coronavirus version have been a failure for over 50 years. The typical coronavirus is the cause of the common cold. We must remember that Virus' in general are an integral part of our human make-up. They are actually necessary to our survival. All this push to make a vaccine for every virus will end up doing more harm than good.
> 
> This particular virus attaches to our Angiotensin Converting Enzyme 2 (ACE-2) receptors. The majority of these receptors are in the lungs, blood vessels and kidneys. Those individuals living in areas of high air pollution, like China (especially Wuhan) and Northern Italy (the worst air pollution in all of Europe) and those who smoke are more at risk, because they have an increased level of ACE-2 receptors in their lungs, as a result of the air pollution reducing the ACE-2 level itself. This is why the young are not as affected by this version of the coronavirus, because they haven't lived long enough to have developed the changes in their Renin-Angiotensin system and do not demonstrate an increase in ACE-2 receptors. Ibuprofen apparently interferes negatively with the Renin-Angiotensin system, which is why it has been said to be contraindicated for COVID-19 patients. Estradiol has a positive effect on ACE-2 activity resulting in more severe hypertension in men, thus the mortality for men with COVID-19 is 2 to 1 female. The genetic basis of ACE-2 expression and function, found on the X chromosome, in different populations is still largely unknown; but recent data indicate that homozygous mutation rates, on the ACE-2 related genes, of males (0.550) was much higher than females (0.310) in the Chinese population. Optimal Vitamin D3 levels (60-80) have been shown to have a very positive effect on the renin-angiotensin system lowering blood pressure, as well as supporting the immune system through improved T cell regulation.
> 
> We know that the average age of death seen in those who have died WITH a COVID-19 positive test is 79.5 years of age. We know these people are all suffering from advanced cardiovascular disease, Hypertension and diabetes. What these people all have in common is concomitant illnesses, they are old and very sick to begin with. Many of them were going to die from pneumonia anyway, as it was just a matter of time. When you take an individual in this poor condition and then place them on antiviral drugs with all the dangerous side affects associated with them, perhaps the cure becomes worse than the disease. When you look at the rather "low" global death rate attributed to COVID-19 and consider the entire global population, it's shocking to many that the whole world is on lock-down, just for this. More people are dying from the regular flu. The most important statistic to look at however, is how many "more" deaths are occurring, then would be expected anyway, during any given period of time. Even though this has been considered "flu season", actually "fewer" people than normal have been dying from ALL causes, even before the quarantine measures were taken. This is an important statistic.
> 
> You may have noticed that I repeatedly stated that these patients have died WITH coronavirus rather than saying from coronavirus. We have NOT been doing the tests necessary to determine the actual cause of death in these people. This is a fact about this disease. We honestly don't know if it is the real, only cause of the deaths we are seeing posted.
> 
> This "pandemic" has taught us some very important lessons:
> We are not prepared medically to handle a situation like this.
> It turns out our Economy is quite fragile.
> Apparently children can be taught at home through computers. Who knew?
> Toilet paper, water and bread are very desirable.
> Fear is a powerful motivator/controller of people.
> The air quality of China and Italy has improved greatly since the shut down of manufacturing.
> China found a way to get their protesting people off the streets.
> The people protesting mandatory vaccination in Northern Italy are off the streets.
> Money is being dumped into the Vaccine Industry by the Billions.
> We need to make sure that not all of our medications continue to be made only in China.
> When you only test the very sick and dying your statistics make it look very deadly.
> Apparently we can be diagnosed from home via FaceTime quite successfully.
> Gas prices come down when people are staying home.
> 
> I am far more worried about how quickly and easily our "rights and freedom" have been taken away from us "For the Greater Good". I fear this whole thing has been a big distraction and/or experiment to determine how easily we can be controlled. I fear this is just the beginning. I hope we will still be allowed to keep our Tortoises.


Thank you for these true words. It is exacly how I feel too.


----------



## Bee62

Tom said:


> I LOVE bats!


Yeah, but you do not eat them !


----------



## Bee62

Cathie G said:


> Hello. It's controversial legally in our country to tell someone that you might be better off if you take a certain herb. Especially if you are selling them. If Echinacea interfers with a medicine I'm taking I'll stop the medicine first. I'm only taking 3. They would like to drug me with more. I do believe you should tell your doctor first though. I may have witnessed disastorous results from using both at the same time with some of the stronger herbs. I've seen Echinacea do miracles for animals also. It works.


I have had some impressively experience with echinacea and my horses 20 years ago. I took my two horses with me on vacation to the Baltic Sea. When I arrived at the riding stable where my horses had their temporary home all the other horses there had a bad cough. I drove to the next pharmacie store and ordered echinacea for my horses. The next day I got it and I gave my horses every day a shot of echinacea ( it was echinacea specially made for injections ). I saw that my horses had nose to nose contact with coughing horses but after 14 days when my holidays were over I drove home with healthy horses !!!! They don`t got the cough ! Since that experience I am completely convinced that echinacea can do little wonders.
It is a good idea that you take it now. Do you give it Joe too ?


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Kelly came back from shopping with some real TYLENOL a pack of gloves and some good looking fruit and produce.
She said that they were also handing out toilet paper. We don't need any.
I'm hoping that at some point, we'll reach some sort of saturation level where some of these items will be common again. Continued hoarding makes no sense.


----------



## Tom

ZEROPILOT said:


> Kelly came back from shopping with some real TYLENOL a pack of gloves and some good looking fruit and produce.
> She said that they were also handing out toilet paper. We don't need any.
> I'm hoping that at some point, we'll reach some sort of saturation level where some of these items will be common again. Continued hoarding makes no sense.


There must be a bunch of people somewhere out there that have warehouses full of TP at this point. What they intend to do with it all, I can only guess. Don't squeeze the Charmin!


----------



## Cathie G

Bee62 said:


> I have had some impressively experience with echinacea and my horses 20 years ago. I took my two horses with me on vacation to the Baltic Sea. When I arrived at the riding stable where my horses had their temporary home all the other horses there had a bad cough. I drove to the next pharmacie store and ordered echinacea for my horses. The next day I got it and I gave my horses every day a shot of echinacea ( it was echinacea specially made for injections ). I saw that my horses had nose to nose contact with coughing horses but after 14 days when my holidays were over I drove home with healthy horses !!!! They don`t got the cough ! Since that experience I am completely convinced that echinacea can do little wonders.
> It is a good idea that you take it now. Do you give it Joe too ?


I started last night. I've been hesitant only because I want to be upfront with my doctor. He probably already thinks I'm weird because I won't take just any med. I don't want fired(as his patient)? I probably should start Joe on it also. I'm not letting him run around town since last week but he was out and about before sooo...just in case. I always keep several bottles here because I can order it from a company really cheap. Their vitamins and herbs are very high quality. I'm not going to bother my doctor about me adding this until my phone appointment. This one should be interesting. I'll have to explain why I won't take my medicine for osteoporosis but I started taking my old standby Echinacea. I've seen it bring stray kittens out of feline leukemia. I've also seen it work on a dying baby goose, dogs, etc. What's really interesting is it's nickname is "snake root". It is the Plaines Indians most used medicine for everything including snake bite. It's my favorite herb also.


----------



## Turtulas-Len

ZEROPILOT said:


> Kelly came back from shopping with some real TYLENOL a pack of gloves and some good looking fruit and produce.
> She said that they were also handing out toilet paper. We don't need any.
> I'm hoping that at some point, we'll reach some sort of saturation level where some of these items will be common again. Continued hoarding makes no sense.


That point may be close. I didn't go out today but a friend did and she called me while at both stores and both of the stores here had milk and paper towels .


----------



## Maro2Bear

ZEROPILOT said:


> No fever today.
> I have no idea what I've got, but it's just some run of the mill ailment. And seems to be on it's way out.
> I feel fine. So does Kelly.
> I'll stay home today just in case.



Good news,


----------



## ZenHerper

ZEROPILOT said:


> Kelly came back from shopping with some real TYLENOL a pack of gloves and some good looking fruit and produce.
> She said that they were also handing out toilet paper. We don't need any.
> I'm hoping that at some point, we'll reach some sort of saturation level where some of these items will be common again. Continued hoarding makes no sense.


It's really just a matter of transportation catching up.

Stores that were used to having one supply truck come weekly suddenly had 4-5 trucks of product carried out in a single day. Day after day.

Warehouses are not empty...the entire system just has to reacquire stasis.


----------



## Bee62

Cathie G said:


> I started last night. I've been hesitant only because I want to be upfront with my doctor. He probably already thinks I'm weird because I won't take just any med. I don't want fired(as his patient)? I probably should start Joe on it also. I'm not letting him run around town since last week but he was out and about before sooo...just in case. I always keep several bottles here because I can order it from a company really cheap. Their vitamins and herbs are very high quality. I'm not going to bother my doctor about me adding this until my phone appointment. This one should be interesting. I'll have to explain why I won't take my medicine for osteoporosis but I started taking my old standby Echinacea. I've seen it bring stray kittens out of feline leukemia. I've also seen it work on a dying baby goose, dogs, etc. What's really interesting is it's nickname is "snake root". It is the Plaines Indians most used medicine for everything including snake bite. It's my favorite herb also.


Most doctors don`t believe that Echinacea can help staying healthy but let them think what they want. I know and you know it helps ! I always treat my animals and me with herbs and it works well. Snake root is an interesting name ! Indians knew so much about plants that can heal several deseases. I wish I would have this knowledge. I am wishing you and Joe all the best.


----------



## Cathie G

Bee62 said:


> Most doctors don`t believe that Echinacea can help staying healthy but let them think what they want. I know and you know it helps ! I always treat my animals and me with herbs and it works well. Snake root is an interesting name ! Indians knew so much about plants that can heal several deseases. I wish I would have this knowledge. I am wishing you and Joe all the best.


Another interesting fact is...after antibiotics were discovered the widespread use of Echinacea went down. Then the 1918 "Spanish Flue" took place.? Then another bad one happened around 1922? Not sure of the exact dates and years. I used to have a cookbook in the 1980's that had a dissertation on that. I have the revised edition but haven't been able to find the original again. It was a cookbook with vegetarian recipes(not vegan) using cheese milk and eggs. Also combining grains, beans, etc. in the correct combination to increase usable protein. A perfect example is beans and cornbread.?


----------



## Cathie G

Tom said:


> There must be a bunch of people somewhere out there that have warehouses full of TP at this point. What they intend to do with it all, I can only guess. Don't squeeze the Charmin!


They are sleeping in tents to guard their life savings.


----------



## Pistachio's Pamperer

Cathie G said:: "A perfect example is beans and cornbread.? "

Sorry here it comes, in moments of stress I become silly..
"Beans and cornbread had a fight. Beans knocked cornbread outta sight.."
-Louis Jordan circa 1949?

I can't see that phrase without thinking of that song.. My dad used to sing it.

**stuffs the old soul back in the box**
-Meg


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Maro2Bear said:


> Good news,


Thanks.
I jumped the gun.


----------



## Maggie3fan

Tom said:


> I have a filter, but its tenuous at best. A lot of stuff gets by it.



I don't now and have never had a filter...so I've been staying off of social media...and here...BORING...


----------



## Maro2Bear

ZEROPILOT said:


> Thanks.
> I jumped the gun.



You feeling bad again? Fingers crossed it is just the flue.


----------



## Cathie G

Pistachio's Pamperer said:


> Cathie G said:: "A perfect example is beans and cornbread.? "
> 
> Sorry here it comes, in moments of stress I become silly..
> "Beans and cornbread had a fight. Beans knocked cornbread outta sight.."
> -Louis Jordan circa 1949?
> 
> I can't see that phrase without thinking of that song.. My dad used to sing it.
> 
> **stuffs the old soul back in the box**
> -Meg


Yep beans are the musical fruit. If you don't believe that you will when they decide to play the tuba.hehehe


----------



## Cathie G

Bee62 said:


> I have had some impressively experience with echinacea and my horses 20 years ago. I took my two horses with me on vacation to the Baltic Sea. When I arrived at the riding stable where my horses had their temporary home all the other horses there had a bad cough. I drove to the next pharmacie store and ordered echinacea for my horses. The next day I got it and I gave my horses every day a shot of echinacea ( it was echinacea specially made for injections ). I saw that my horses had nose to nose contact with coughing horses but after 14 days when my holidays were over I drove home with healthy horses !!!! They don`t got the cough ! Since that experience I am completely convinced that echinacea can do little wonders.
> It is a good idea that you take it now. Do you give it Joe too ?


Another thought. I didn't know some places made an injectable. It's probably an old farm medicine too.


----------



## queen koopa

Bee62 said:


> Most doctors don`t believe that Echinacea can help staying healthy but let them think what they want. I know and you know it helps ! I always treat my animals and me with herbs and it works well. Snake root is an interesting name ! Indians knew so much about plants that can heal several deseases. I wish I would have this knowledge. I am wishing you and Joe all the best.


Same boat guys. I take echinacea in a shot glass of water every so often. And when there is a sick person in the household I usually do 3 to 4 days of it every night.


----------



## Cathie G

maggie18fan said:


> I don't now and have never had a filter...so I've been staying off of social media...and here...BORING...


Dang it...and here I've been trying to get you started.?


----------



## Bee62

Cathie G said:


> Another interesting fact is...after antibiotics were discovered the widespread use of Echinacea went down. Then the 1918 "Spanish Flue" took place.? Then another bad one happened around 1922? Not sure of the exact dates and years. I used to have a cookbook in the 1980's that had a dissertation on that. I have the revised edition but haven't been able to find the original again. It was a cookbook with vegetarian recipes(not vegan) using cheese milk and eggs. Also combining grains, beans, etc. in the correct combination to increase usable protein. A perfect example is beans and cornbread.?


Sad that the use of Echinacea went down when antibiotics had been discovered. Good old medicine that our grandmothers knew is not always bad. I learned a lot about meds made of herbs, weeds, blossoms and other plants when I bought a sick horse. She suffers an old bronchitis and had a lot of mucos in her lungs. She was coughing often and not really rideable because of her lung disfunction. But she was a wonderful horse and so I bought her though I knew she was sick. After I owned her 2 years she was fully recovered and ran like a machine without lung problems. It was a great pleasure riding her ! Within these 2 years I saw a lot of other horses that suffers the same health problem like mine . These horses had been treatened by normal vets. Most of these horses went to the slaughter.... 
Btw: I love baked beans. The "American style" with tomato sauce !


----------



## Bee62

queen koopa said:


> Same boat guys. I take echinacea in a shot glass of water every so often. And when there is a sick person in the household I usually do 3 to 4 days of it every night.


Well done ! You know what is good for your health. ?I wish that more people would know that.


----------



## Bee62

maggie18fan said:


> I don't now and have never had a filter...so I've been staying off of social media...and here...BORING...


BORING ? May you tell me or us in which? motorbike club you had been ? I`ve read something about the 1 % bikers ..... I always thought you are an ?. ( no, please don`t beat me..... )


----------



## Bee62

Cathie G said:


> Yep beans are the musical fruit. If you don't believe that you will when they decide to play the tuba.hehehe


Not only musical but smelly too.... ???


----------



## Bee62

Cathie G said:


> Another thought. I didn't know some places made an injectable. It's probably an old farm medicine too.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Maro2Bear said:


> You feeling bad again? Fingers crossed it is just the flue.


I don't feel badly.
I have some symptoms that normally wouldn't concern me. This virus just made me paranoid.
I don't want to spread it....(If I'd had it. Which apparently I don't)
Thanks, though.


----------



## queen koopa

Bee62 said:


> Well done ! You know what is good for your health. ?I wish that more people would know that.


Thanks ? But someone told someone! Echinacea was the only isle empty in the immune health section at Sprouts a few days ago. And price on Amazon almost doubled when I let it sit in my cart for a day....


----------



## Cathie G

queen koopa said:


> Thanks ? But someone told someone! Echinacea was the only isle empty in the immune health section at Sprouts a few days ago. And price on Amazon almost doubled when I let it sit in my cart for a day....


Yes the business I order from is out also...but it's one thing I "hoard" anyway. So I have some bottles. That's so wonderful if people will go ahead and take it right now and not just buy it up. I don't think that will happen. Most of the other kind are trying to save their butts by buying? tp.


----------



## Sue Ann

Toddrickfl1 said:


> I'm honestly more worried about paying my bills than I am the illness. My 88 year old grandmother lives with me and I do worry for her. I went to 5 stores this morning and they're all out of Toilet paper, paper towels, bread, and water.


Try Ace Hardware or tractor supply they have paper towels and toilet paper and cleaning supplies. People forget to try alternatives


----------



## Cathie G

ZEROPILOT said:


> I don't feel badly.
> I have some symptoms that normally wouldn't concern me. This virus just made me paranoid.
> I don't want to spread it....(If I'd had it. Which apparently I don't)
> Thanks, though.


I'm going through that too. My brother got a cold last of February. I managed to fight it off by staying home...kept him home also and he mostly got over it. But it still makes you wonder because some people don't actually get bad symptoms. We are both over 60 so I'm glad the government shut things down for awhile. At least we didn't share it back or forth outside our home.


----------



## Cathie G

Sue Ann said:


> Try Ace Hardware or tractor supply they have paper towels and toilet paper and cleaning supplies. People forget to try alternatives


Office supply companies also.


----------



## queen koopa

Liquor stores in Clark County NV are closed now. WTH seriously?

Grocery stores, hardware stores, fast food delivery, and delivery cannabis are the only things open....


----------



## ZEROPILOT

queen koopa said:


> Liquor stores in Clark County NV are closed now. WTH seriously?
> 
> Grocery stores, hardware stores, fast food delivery, and delivery cannabis are the only things open....


Yep.
But that's THIS week.....


----------



## Tom

Here is something that makes no sense to me. Perhaps someone can help me understand.

I know where the concept of the 6 feet between people comes from. I had a vet in college that taught us as a general rule there needed to be at least 6 feet between animal cages to greatly reduce the chances of spreading most contagious diseases.

What is 6 feet between people going to do when this C19 is supposedly able to survive on airborne micro droplets for 3 hours, and on surfaces for days? It makes no sense.

I know of a lot of people who've been sick this year, all recovered, tested negative for flu, and the symptoms line up perfectly with C19. If this thing spreads this easily, I can't imagine that anyone in this country hasn't already been exposed to it, myself included. Like any sickness, exposure is not a guarantee that you'll become sick and show symptoms. Some people's immune systems simply fight it off.

Something is fishy here. Very fishy. Red herring fishy. Now we have a Universal Basic Income plan being proposed and supported by both sides? Free gift money for everyone adding up to trillions? We're being played. We're so screwed...


----------



## Skambouris

Tom said:


> You just put into words what I have been feeling and simmering on for weeks, and you did it with unparalleled eloquence and candor. Thank you. I'm sharing this with fiends and family.





Bee62 said:


> Thank you for these true words. It is exacly how I feel too.


Thx for the positive truths. You expressed your point in a way that allows me to align itt all w common sense. Apreciate that


----------



## queen koopa

Tom said:


> Here is something that makes no sense to me. Perhaps someone can help me understand.
> 
> I know where the concept of the 6 feet between people comes from. I had a vet in college that taught us as a general rule there needed to be at least 6 feet between animal cages to greatly reduce the chances of spreading most contagious diseases.
> 
> What is 6 feet between people going to do when this C19 is supposedly able to survive on airborne micro droplets for 3 hours, and on surfaces for days? It makes no sense.
> 
> I know of a lot of people who've been sick this year, all recovered, tested negative for flu, and the symptoms line up perfectly with C19. If this thing spreads this easily, I can't imagine that anyone in this country hasn't already been exposed to it, myself included. Like any sickness, exposure is not a guarantee that you'll become sick and show symptoms. Some people's immune systems simply fight it off.
> 
> Something is fishy here. Very fishy. Red herring fishy. Now we have a Universal Basic Income plan being proposed and supported by both sides? Free gift money for everyone adding up to trillions? We're being played. We're so screwed...


Universal Basic Income for all and fining citizens who congregate in groups of 10.

Las Vegas & Henderson equal to almost 1 million people. As of March 22 there has been 151 cases and 4 related deaths Corona 19. First death occurred March 16th - a man in his 60’s with underlying health conditions. All 3 following Corona 19 related deaths were also people over 60 with underlying health conditions. The Corona 19 info coming from the cities website reported from The Southern Nevada Health District. https://cityofhenderson.com/fire/covid-19-info/flu-coronavirus-prevention
The Health District does not provide information on those 4 individuals underlying health conditions. WHICH I feel would be helpful to the public. There were a couple thousand people tested. I am guessing there was reason for testing those couple thousand people. Anyone care what those sick people had?


----------



## ZenHerper

Tom said:


> Here is something that makes no sense to me. Perhaps someone can help me understand.
> 
> I know where the concept of the 6 feet between people comes from. I had a vet in college that taught us as a general rule there needed to be at least 6 feet between animal cages to greatly reduce the chances of spreading most contagious diseases.
> 
> What is 6 feet between people going to do when this C19 is supposedly able to survive on airborne micro droplets for 3 hours, and on surfaces for days? It makes no sense.
> 
> I know of a lot of people who've been sick this year, all recovered, tested negative for flu, and the symptoms line up perfectly with C19. If this thing spreads this easily, I can't imagine that anyone in this country hasn't already been exposed to it, myself included. Like any sickness, exposure is not a guarantee that you'll become sick and show symptoms. Some people's immune systems simply fight it off.
> 
> Something is fishy here. Very fishy. Red herring fishy. Now we have a Universal Basic Income plan being proposed and supported by both sides? Free gift money for everyone adding up to trillions? We're being played. We're so screwed...



Not fishy at all.

It's just a layer of pro-social behavior modification that keeps us all present to the Awareness that we are in a risky situation.

If you set your brain to keep a 6-foot distance, you won't instinctively hug or shake hands or kiss a friend. You can't reach! Your brain remains mindful of the fact that surfaces are an issue; you make a continuous mental note to wash your hands properly at the next available sink.

18% of known-infected people require hospitalization. I don't want to be hospitalized. I don't want to be tubed and put on a ventilator. I don't want to wake up and have them hand me the bill. I don't want to wake up and find that My Person has died. Alone. And that my pets have been confiscated by animal control and re-homed. 

I don't want to be the cause of that happening to other people in my community, or across the country.

The way we manage influenza viruses in the U.S. is crap. That is not a good excuse for mismanaging this situation.

The smart choice is to do whatever we can think of to protect ourselves. The pro-social choice is to do whatever we can think of to protect others.


----------



## Toddrickfl1

Tom said:


> Here is something that makes no sense to me. Perhaps someone can help me understand.
> 
> I know where the concept of the 6 feet between people comes from. I had a vet in college that taught us as a general rule there needed to be at least 6 feet between animal cages to greatly reduce the chances of spreading most contagious diseases.
> 
> What is 6 feet between people going to do when this C19 is supposedly able to survive on airborne micro droplets for 3 hours, and on surfaces for days? It makes no sense.
> 
> I know of a lot of people who've been sick this year, all recovered, tested negative for flu, and the symptoms line up perfectly with C19. If this thing spreads this easily, I can't imagine that anyone in this country hasn't already been exposed to it, myself included. Like any sickness, exposure is not a guarantee that you'll become sick and show symptoms. Some people's immune systems simply fight it off.
> 
> Something is fishy here. Very fishy. Red herring fishy. Now we have a Universal Basic Income plan being proposed and supported by both sides? Free gift money for everyone adding up to trillions? We're being played. We're so screwed...


I used to be somewhat of a conspiracy theorist but I've tuned a lot of that the past few years to not focus on negativity so much. I gotta agree though. I've got that feeling too, something fishy going on.


----------



## Yvonne G

So my grocery store advised they would be open from 6a to 9a for senior citizens to shop. I normally shop on Thursday, so this fit right into my plan. I set the alarm (something I haven't had to do for many, many years) and subsequently woke up every hour on the hour so I would be certain to be awake before the alarm jangled my nerves. I finally woke up and got up at 5a. Got ready and took care of my morning ablutions and left the house at a quarter to 6. The good old boy network was waiting at the door when I got there - all old men, no women. I waited in my car until they unlocked the door, then went in and did my shopping. I may as well have waited and taken care of it at a decent hour. . . there was no T-paper, no paper towels, no bread. Next Thursday I'll just wait and shop at my normal time.


----------



## Fluffy

It's not complicated. There is no reason to worry about statistics that are unreliable at best and will work themselves out in time. This virus is twice as contagious as the normal flu that most people try to compare it to. We have no approved medicine to treat those affected. We have no vaccine to prevent you from contracting this virus. We learned quickly that our country was not prepared to handle anything of this magnitude. This is not a time to get political or judgmental. This is going to get worse before it gets better and the actions of everyone will determine how many lives are lost and how long this lasts. This virus is here to stay but in another year we will be prepared to manage it and it will be no worse then the flu everyone wants the covid-19 to be compared to. Please listen to the CDC and WHO. Follow their guidelines and be safe. There is no reason to panic or hoard. I hope everyone here and everyone we know stays safe. Fingers crossed a year from now we are all here with nothing to talk about but our hobbies.


----------



## queen koopa

Fluffy said:


> It's not complicated. There is no reason to worry about statistics that are unreliable at best and will work themselves out in time. This virus is twice as contagious as the normal flu that most people try to compare it to. We have no approved medicine to treat those affected. We have no vaccine to prevent you from contracting this virus. We learned quickly that our country was not prepared to handle anything of this magnitude. This is not a time to get political or judgmental. This is going to get worse before it gets better and the actions of everyone will determine how many lives are lost and how long this lasts. This virus is here to stay but in another year we will be prepared to manage it and it will be no worse then the flu everyone wants the covid-19 to be compared to. Please listen to the CDC and WHO. Follow their guidelines and be safe. There is no reason to panic or hoard. I hope everyone here and everyone we know stays safe. Fingers crossed a year from now we are all here with nothing to talk about but our hobbies.


Well the general public panicked and hoarded. And why wouldn’t they as a whole when their city is shut down and all they see is empty shelves from TV, social media, and in person? Mixed statistics from all over the globe, Americans losing 100’s of thousands, schools shut down, people can’t go to the dr for regular things, and Yvonne still cannot get toilet paper or bread! WTH


----------



## Markw84

Tom said:


> Here is something that makes no sense to me. Perhaps someone can help me understand.
> 
> I know where the concept of the 6 feet between people comes from. I had a vet in college that taught us as a general rule there needed to be at least 6 feet between animal cages to greatly reduce the chances of spreading most contagious diseases.
> 
> What is 6 feet between people going to do when this C19 is supposedly able to survive on airborne micro droplets for 3 hours, and on surfaces for days? It makes no sense.
> 
> I know of a lot of people who've been sick this year, all recovered, tested negative for flu, and the symptoms line up perfectly with C19. If this thing spreads this easily, I can't imagine that anyone in this country hasn't already been exposed to it, myself included. Like any sickness, exposure is not a guarantee that you'll become sick and show symptoms. Some people's immune systems simply fight it off.
> 
> Something is fishy here. Very fishy. Red herring fishy. Now we have a Universal Basic Income plan being proposed and supported by both sides? Free gift money for everyone adding up to trillions? We're being played. We're so screwed...



In addition to the patterning value mentioned by @ZenHerper :

So far there is no evidence that this is spread airborne. The droplets are miniscule and we even emit droplets in conversations. Much more with a cough or sneeze. Although very small droplets can remain airborne, there is no know example or experiment showing the breathing in of airborn droplets is a viable mechanism for transmission. It is the droplets landing on a surface. You, your hands, your hair, your clothes, etc. You then touch that surface and then touch your face - mouth, eyes, nose That is the known path of transmission. The airborne droplets of concern have been shown to have dropped and landed on some surface within 6 feet max.

That is why wearing a mask out in public is of little value. Extremely close contact, the mask is important. But even then it is the eye protection and even face shield that is best.


----------



## Maggie3fan

maggie18fan said:


> I don't now and have never had a filter...so I've been staying off of social media...and here...BORING...



I love the 'thumbs up' likes...I am sure that's because ya'll were glad I'm staying away from here...sorry what I meant translated...I was staying off of social media and here, should have said, and I meant..." it's boring without the social interacting on line" I did not in any way mean any disrespect...


----------



## queen koopa

A point my sister just brought up to me for a reason America wasn’t hit as hard as other countries because Americans have been raised with personal space standards. We don’t kiss on cheeks when meeting, we don’t stand on top of each other in line, and keep our hands our self. 

Also another note, our house just got appraised at $500k 2 weeks ago, and now we just got a note from Mortgage watch that our house is now $800k.


----------



## Maggie3fan

Bee62 said:


> BORING ? May you tell me or us in which? motorbike club you had been ? I`ve read something about the 1 % bikers ..... I always thought you are an ?. ( no, please don`t beat me..... )



Not all 1% bikers belong to a 'club'...with a core group, it's a lifestyle...Harleys parked in the kitchen...good looking leather clad men sleeping on the floor...runs...motorcycle camping...fighting...those were fun times...Thanks, but the old timers here and in my life will tell you...on a good day...I am bad...the way I lived my life and with my sweet and wonderful personality, I have alienated most of my family members and friends. I am more well behaved now, but I had a lot of fun, went places and did things that Joe Average would never get to do...I regret some of what I have done...but on the flip side I am a member of the too much fun club...LOL


----------



## queen koopa

Wanted to give yall some info I just got. My sisters boyfriend (whom basically lives here) his mother went to NC the last week of February to visit family and attend a wedding in FL. There were a few sick people at the wedding and his mother began feeling body aches and fever a few days after returning from FL to NC. She self quarantined (all the kids in the house had to be relocated). She was able to get tested and 7 days later (today) she got her test back positive for Coronavirus 19. She never had any lung problems or cough just fever and aches. Today she said is the first day she’s feeling normal again. She’s in her late 50s and has some heart problems.


----------



## Yvonne G

queen koopa said:


> Wanted to give yall some info I just got. My sisters boyfriend (whom basically lives here) his mother went to NC the last week of February to visit family and attend a wedding in FL. There were a few sick people at the wedding and his mother began feeling body aches and fever a few days after returning from FL to NC. She self quarantined (all the kids in the house had to be relocated). She was able to get tested and 7 days later (today) she got her test back positive for Coronavirus 19. She never had any lung problems or cough just fever and aches. Today she said is the first day she’s feeling normal again. She’s in her late 50s and has some heart problems.


I would say she's mighty lucky!


----------



## Cathie G

Tom said:


> Here is something that makes no sense to me. Perhaps someone can help me understand.
> 
> I know where the concept of the 6 feet between people comes from. I had a vet in college that taught us as a general rule there needed to be at least 6 feet between animal cages to greatly reduce the chances of spreading most contagious diseases.
> 
> What is 6 feet between people going to do when this C19 is supposedly able to survive on airborne micro droplets for 3 hours, and on surfaces for days? It makes no sense.
> 
> I know of a lot of people who've been sick this year, all recovered, tested negative for flu, and the symptoms line up perfectly with C19. If this thing spreads this easily, I can't imagine that anyone in this country hasn't already been exposed to it, myself included. Like any sickness, exposure is not a guarantee that you'll become sick and show symptoms. Some people's immune systems simply fight it off.
> 
> Something is fishy here. Very fishy. Red herring fishy. Now we have a Universal Basic Income plan being proposed and supported by both sides? Free gift money for everyone adding up to trillions? We're being played. We're so screwed...


My way of saying that is "I smell a rat"! None of what they're saying makes actual sense. If the virus can live on cardboard for 24 hours why can't it be on your mail when deposited in your mailbox. My nephew was sick and is a postman. He was told to come to work anyway. They are talking from both sides of their mouth.


----------



## Tom

ZenHerper said:


> Not fishy at all.
> 
> It's just a layer of pro-social behavior modification that keeps us all present to the Awareness that we are in a risky situation.
> 
> If you set your brain to keep a 6-foot distance, you won't instinctively hug or shake hands or kiss a friend. You can't reach! Your brain remains mindful of the fact that surfaces are an issue; you make a continuous mental note to wash your hands properly at the next available sink.
> 
> 18% of known-infected people require hospitalization. I don't want to be hospitalized. I don't want to be tubed and put on a ventilator. I don't want to wake up and have them hand me the bill. I don't want to wake up and find that My Person has died. Alone. And that my pets have been confiscated by animal control and re-homed.
> 
> I don't want to be the cause of that happening to other people in my community, or across the country.
> 
> The way we manage influenza viruses in the U.S. is crap. That is not a good excuse for mismanaging this situation.
> 
> The smart choice is to do whatever we can think of to protect ourselves. The pro-social choice is to do whatever we can think of to protect others.


So you are saying we should just go ahead and bereave the media and the government, and shutting down the entire world, as well as our own economy, because of a virus with stats that change by the minute should raise no mental red flags?

Nope. Not buying it. They are up to something. They are always up to something.


----------



## ZenHerper

Tom said:


> So you are saying we should just go ahead and bereave the media and the government, and shutting down the entire world, as well as our own economy, because of a virus with stats that change by the minute should raise no mental red flags?
> 
> Nope. Not buying it. They are up to something. They are always up to something.


I'm pretty sure we've bereaved the media and government already.


Look, you have to vet your sources. I can't say what's making you so paranoid, but you have to compare that rhetoric to proper scientific and statistical sources. Precious few people in this thread provide citations for what they reference/claim. A lot of what is being thrown about is baseless. The internet is an environment ripe with misinformation. Feed your brain ideas from healthful sources, or develop, like, mental MBD.









What does the coronavirus mean for the U.S. health care system? Some simple math offers alarming answers


At a 10% hospitalization rate, all hospital beds in the U.S. will be filled by about May 10. As #Covid19 cases saturate nearly every state and county, health care workers would burn through the national stockpile of N95 masks in two days.




www.statnews.com





*************

Human DNA is programmed for each individual to gather what is Best for them. But we are part of a highly social species. The second question is, "What is the Best I can give to others?"

It is easy to identify anti-social people. They do and say anti-social things.

************

52% of the total deaths in NJ had NO underlying medical conditions.





__





Office of the Governor | Governor Murphy Announces That New Jersey Has Received Major Disaster Declaration


The declaration will provide federal assistance to supplement statewide recovery efforts affected by the COVID-19 pandemic beginning on January 20, 2020.



www.nj.gov


----------



## Tom

ZenHerper said:


> I can't say what's making you so paranoid...


Why so quick to assume its paranoia? How do you know there isn't more going on here than we are being led to believe?

At this point the stats, projections and models have changed so many times, there is no reliable or credible source of info. And this is not even counting the intentional lies and misdirection.


----------



## Cathie G

queen koopa said:


> Wanted to give yall some info I just got. My sisters boyfriend (whom basically lives here) his mother went to NC the last week of February to visit family and attend a wedding in FL. There were a few sick people at the wedding and his mother began feeling body aches and fever a few days after returning from FL to NC. She self quarantined (all the kids in the house had to be relocated). She was able to get tested and 7 days later (today) she got her test back positive for Coronavirus 19. She never had any lung problems or cough just fever and aches. Today she said is the first day she’s feeling normal again. She’s in her late 50s and has some heart problems.


I'm really glad to read a positive outcome for someone. ?I've also read that some people have no symptoms at all and test positive anyway. Until they do more actual testing though how can they even do the simple math it takes to see what has actually taken place. If questioning real logic, true dates of when this started, and the simple math is stupid... then call me a silly?


----------



## Cathie G

queen koopa said:


> A point my sister just brought up to me for a reason America wasn’t hit as hard as other countries because Americans have been raised with personal space standards. We don’t kiss on cheeks when meeting, we don’t stand on top of each other in line, and keep our hands our self.
> 
> Also another note, our house just got appraised at $500k 2 weeks ago, and now we just got a note from Mortgage watch that our house is now $800k.


Yea well they also pack in elevators like sardines also...hehehe


----------



## ZenHerper

Tom said:


> Why so quick to assume its paranoia? How do you know there isn't more going on here than we are being led to believe?
> 
> At this point the stats, projections and models have changed so many times, there is no reliable or credible source of info. And this is not even counting the intentional lies and misdirection.



Science is not a venue for belief. Belief is about absolutes, certainties, no questions, just trust.

Science is information, data. Compiled over time. The more information you gather, the better and more specific interpretations can be made. There are bumps, twists, turns, curve balls. Science is uncertainty -- the universe we live in contains masses of uncertainty.

When we identify a DNA profile of the coronavirus family, we have a starting point for addressing the problem (before that we had data about people getting sick to the point of critical hospitalization, and deaths).

Facts build on facts until a greater picture emerges of how the micro-critter moves and adapts to the population it lives on (replicates inside).

There isn't any magical certainty. We posit and try one route, or another in order to defeat infection and get ahead. Some ideas are tried-and-true, some are new.

You haven't seen me talk up vaccination. Vaccination works very with some diseases. Smallpox, measles, mumps, etc.. Those diseases are returning to populations who eschew vaccines, out of hand. Coronaviruses and influenza viruses are better at mutating. There are many versions, and they circulate in often unpredictable patterns. If vaccines can be made, they are effective, with caveats. Don't want a vaccine? Take a chance that increases with increasing risk of complications. Has someone developed health conditions that get worse with flu infection? Great - here's a vaccine that may help!

Wholesale vaccination MIGHT work with a novel virus, but the time interval needed to get one into adequate product is prohibitive. In short, it may change before a safe vaccine can be sent all over the world simultaneously. It would be lovely to just kill this type of thing within a week, but that's just not how the thing works.

This is a situation where information comes in daily. Scientists follow those changes and alter their interpretations. New courses of action are proposed...then there is an interval of time before accuracy is detected.

Science is plodding and intentional. It is the method by which we figured out how tortoises got to be what they are, and how we course correct a merchandising culture that trades on mass-producing them badly.

If one doesn't know how to follow and interpret the data, then one must find those who can.


----------



## Maro2Bear

Johns Hopkins University has a good map that reflects the trend in COVID cases.









COVID-19 Map - Johns Hopkins Coronavirus Resource Center


Coronavirus COVID-19 Global Cases by the Center for Systems Science and Engineering (CSSE) at Johns Hopkins University (JHU)




coronavirus.jhu.edu


----------



## ZenHerper

New York City hospitals now far beyond capacity:









Inside the coronavirus 'Ground Zero': Elmhurst Hospital in New York City


Over a dozen coronavirus patients died in a 24-hour period at the hospital.




abcnews.go.com


----------



## Maro2Bear

ZenHerper said:


> New York City hospitals now far beyond capacity:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Inside the coronavirus 'Ground Zero': Elmhurst Hospital in New York City
> 
> 
> Over a dozen coronavirus patients died in a 24-hour period at the hospital.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> abcnews.go.com



Just watched a refrigerated truck there being used as a morgue. Sad.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Tom said:


> Here is something that makes no sense to me. Perhaps someone can help me understand.
> 
> I know where the concept of the 6 feet between people comes from. I had a vet in college that taught us as a general rule there needed to be at least 6 feet between animal cages to greatly reduce the chances of spreading most contagious diseases.
> 
> What is 6 feet between people going to do when this C19 is supposedly able to survive on airborne micro droplets for 3 hours, and on surfaces for days? It makes no sense.
> 
> I know of a lot of people who've been sick this year, all recovered, tested negative for flu, and the symptoms line up perfectly with C19. If this thing spreads this easily, I can't imagine that anyone in this country hasn't already been exposed to it, myself included. Like any sickness, exposure is not a guarantee that you'll become sick and show symptoms. Some people's immune systems simply fight it off.
> 
> Something is fishy here. Very fishy. Red herring fishy. Now we have a Universal Basic Income plan being proposed and supported by both sides? Free gift money for everyone adding up to trillions? We're being played. We're so screwed...


I feel that it's odd too.
But I'm not ready yet to try that KOOLAID.
Let's see how this plays out a bit longer.
But, then again..I'M the member with a ghost stories thread.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Yvonne G said:


> So my grocery store advised they would be open from 6a to 9a for senior citizens to shop. I normally shop on Thursday, so this fit right into my plan. I set the alarm (something I haven't had to do for many, many years) and subsequently woke up every hour on the hour so I would be certain to be awake before the alarm jangled my nerves. I finally woke up and got up at 5a. Got ready and took care of my morning ablutions and left the house at a quarter to 6. The good old boy network was waiting at the door when I got there - all old men, no women. I waited in my car until they unlocked the door, then went in and did my shopping. I may as well have waited and taken care of it at a decent hour. . . there was no T-paper, no paper towels, no bread. Next Thursday I'll just wait and shop at my normal time.


Geez
All that and STILL no paper.


----------



## Tom

ZenHerper said:


> Science is not a venue for belief. Belief is about absolutes, certainties, no questions, just trust.
> 
> Science is information, data. Compiled over time. The more information you gather, the better and more specific interpretations can be made. There are bumps, twists, turns, curve balls. Science is uncertainty -- the universe we live in contains masses of uncertainty.


No disagreement with anything in your post. I'm well aware of how science works. We aren't talking about science here though. We are talking about media and government misrepresentations. We are talking about controlling populations with fear. We are talking about whipping the general public into a fear frenzy by reporting falsehoods, and grossly exaggerating possibilities, based on a lack of facts and accurate science.


----------



## ZenHerper

Tom said:


> No disagreement with anything in your post. I'm well aware of how science works. We aren't talking about science here though. We are talking about media and government misrepresentations. We are talking about controlling populations with fear. We are talking about whipping the general public into a fear frenzy by reporting falsehoods, and grossly exaggerating possibilities, based on a lack of facts and accurate science.



^ This is called Moving The Goalposts. You brought up Belief. I made a distinction between belief and science. I explained why they are different.

You have not cited any specific examples of misrepresentation (though there are many -- vet your sources). You have not cited any instance of people being fooled by those misrepresentations (though many are -- vet your sources). You have not cited any instance(s) of a public frenzy (I've been across 2 counties since NJ's governor declared our emergency status. People are mostly respectfully observant and calm).

I dispute your premise. You have yet to support it.


----------



## ZenHerper

Louisiana runs headlong into the pandemic: nfection rates skyrocketed since Mardi Gras. Nearly half of hospitalized patients there are on ventilators. 









Louisiana Coronavirus Updates: 2nd death reported at retirement community, 196 cases


New Orleans' restrictions on businesses and gatherings are now in effect. The governor's statewide rules start tomorrow.




www.wwltv.com













Louisiana Coronavirus | La Dept. of Health


The Louisiana Department of Health protects and promotes health and ensures access to medical, preventive and rehabilitative services for all citizens of the State of Louisiana.




ldh.la.gov


----------



## Blackdog1714

Mythbuster’s sneeze episode is in one word Terrifying!


----------



## mark1

how I understand it , with some viral disease , not necessarily this one , how much you initially get infected with has a lot to do with how sick your going to get ……. by being further away the amount of virus you get exposed to will be lower ….. there probably is a good chance people who have mild cases and have built an immunity to it were infected with very small amounts and not often ……. as far as being able to detect it on surfaces , and it being able to cause an infection , how long it can be detected might not be the same as to how long it can infect a person …….


----------



## Blackdog1714

You exercise your muscles why not your immune system? 5 second rule on hard shelled candies(M&M’s) in an ER Drive! I may have done a few wild things in my years!


----------



## ZenHerper

mark1 said:


> how I understand it , with some viral disease , not necessarily this one , how much you initially get infected with has a lot to do with how sick your going to get ……. by being further away the amount of virus you get exposed to will be lower ….. there probably is a good chance people who have mild cases and have built an immunity to it were infected with very small amounts and not often ……. as far as being able to detect it on surfaces , and it being able to cause an infection , how long it can be detected might not be the same as to how long it can infect a person …….



Which is just simple math. If I throw one dart at you, you might dodge it or get grazed.

If I and 10 friends throw a dart at you, you will likely get stuck several times.

If I, 10 of my friends, and 10 each of their friends all throw a dart at you, you will need a medic.

Your immune system's ability to manage one or a few virus particles is not too bad. Your body's ability to cope decreases with increased infection load, your baseline health status, other environmental factors, diet, etc.. So, yeah, do everything you can to avoid direct coughs & sneezes from strangers.

I do find it notable that CoV-2 (Covid-19) survives far longer on cardboard than the original SARS version...


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Broward county Florida ordered every citizen to stay home as of this evening.
That means everyone.


----------



## queen koopa

ZEROPILOT said:


> Broward county Florida ordered every citizen to stay home as of this evening.
> That means everyone.


Yikes......


----------



## ZEROPILOT

queen koopa said:


> Yikes......


Yeah
Good luck with this...


----------



## queen koopa

So how is the government going to justify city closures and then reopen all closed business that have major viral & bacterial infection risks on a daily? Like high volume restaurants and bars? Movie theaters? Spas? Spas is a big one... much is not checked as it is and that is very very disturbing..... Many of the high volume gatherings in our society involve alcohol, and a lot of it: LAS VEGAS (HA), concerts, sporting events, festivals, clubs, bars.... Intoxicated humans forget all sorts of things... NO way to remind drunk (or worse) people to keep distance, use tissues, wash hands, not throw up in public, not kiss 6 people, not share joints.... What are going to be the changes ?


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Monroe county and the FLORIDA KEYS are closed.
All of south Florida is officially on lock down.


----------



## Tom

ZenHerper said:


> ^ This is called Moving The Goalposts. You brought up Belief. I made a distinction between belief and science. I explained why they are different.
> 
> You have not cited any specific examples of misrepresentation (though there are many -- vet your sources). You have not cited any instance of people being fooled by those misrepresentations (though many are -- vet your sources). You have not cited any instance(s) of a public frenzy (I've been across 2 counties since NJ's governor declared our emergency status. People are mostly respectfully observant and calm).
> 
> I dispute your premise. You have yet to support it.


I've moved no goalposts. I made no distinction of belief or science that is any different than your beliefs. I can spend hours searching the web to find citations to support any claim I want. It's meaningless. Either of us would be citing stuff we've read on the internet. Stuff written by a person with an agenda. The "facts" about all of this, as told to us, change by the minute.

You call me paranoid. I say you don't want to see what is, and has been, happening around you.


----------



## Maggie3fan

ZEROPILOT said:


> Broward county Florida ordered every citizen to stay home as of this evening.
> That means everyone.



Corvallis is like that as well...Today I get to go to Home Depot, grocery store, pharmacy, and the 'wild life rescue'...I didn't mind staying home with all my animals, and yard work, housework...but as soon as it became mandatory...I balked...sometimes I wonder...what the heck is wrong with me...lol


----------



## Blackdog1714

Tom said:


> I've moved no goalposts. I made no distinction of belief or science that is any different than your beliefs. I can spend hours searching the web to find citations to support any claim I want. It's meaningless. Either of us would be citing stuff we've read on the internet. Stuff written by a person with an agenda. The "facts" about all of this, as told to us, change by the minute.
> 
> You call me paranoid. I say you don't want to see what is, and has been, happening around you.


There is a huge difference between paranoid and prepared! Sadly I have very little faith in humanity on the regular let alone when their ease of lifestyle accommodations is delayed or stopped!


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Blackdog1714 said:


> There is a huge difference between paranoid and prepared! Sadly I have very little faith in humanity on the regular let alone when their ease of lifestyle accommodations is delayed or stopped!


Living in HURRICANE ALLEY, I've got to say that sometimes paranoid and prepared are the same.
But being paranoid is not always helpful. I myself have bouts of paranoia. And it's not fun.

A friend of mine packed up his dog and survival supplies and food and ammo and went to live in the EVERGLADES for the 2012 Mayan apocalypse.
Looks absolutely paranoid.
But acting on a gut feeling can also save your life.
Reacting to everything or not reacting to anything are just different peoples mindset.
We don't all think alike.
This isn't about coiled light bulbs.
We'll soon know more about this thing than we do now.


----------



## Turtulas-Len

They were doing a story about the NYPD and how many are off sick and the precautions they were taking not to get infected. Some were wearing gloves and some were also wearing mask. I have heard that it can also enter through the eyes. Couldn't people use those goggles that I see all the Olympic swimmers wear during competition to help protect their eyes? I have never worn them so don't know how uncomfortable they are to wear for an extended time.


----------



## Yvonne G

maggie18fan said:


> Corvallis is like that as well...Today I get to go to Home Depot, grocery store, pharmacy, and the 'wild life rescue'...I didn't mind staying home with all my animals, and yard work, housework...but as soon as it became mandatory...I balked...sometimes I wonder...what the heck is wrong with me...lol


Funny thing about "mandatory" . . . When I went shopping yesterday the cashier said, "Since you brought your own bags, you'll have to bag your own groceries." Now I've been known to pitch in and bag my groceries when the cashier is alone, but there was just something off putting about being told I HAVE to do it.

On another note, I received an order from Amazon and it concerned me as if it contained a bomb. I didn't let it touch my clothes as I carried it into the house, I opened it and quickly tossed the germy box out into the sun. I wiped down the contents (packs of turmeric and cinnamon to make Golden something or other to help relieve Misty's pain) with antiseptic wipes, and I 'm sitting here in my recliner feeling like germs are crawling all over me.


----------



## mark1

Blackdog1714 said:


> You exercise your muscles why not your immune system? 5 second rule on hard shelled candies(M&M’s) in an ER Drive! I may have done a few wild things in my years!


i am a firm believer in natural immunities ........Use to never vaccinate our dogs , then we got to a point where we gave them every vaccine known to man , 5way , 6 way , 9 way ...... then we ended up at a point where we minimally vaccinate them ……… I’d always vaccinate the puppies….. when mono-valent vaccines were more easily available i used them 2 weeks apart , I’d give them distemper measles at 6weeks and parvo at 8 weeks , I’d not vaccinate them again until after 12 weeks with parvo and distemper , I’d never give them another vaccination for the rest of their lives aside from rabies as adults ……… I never vaccinate the adult dogs , I believe the pups shedding virus from their vaccinations must have immunized the adults , or their immunities from their puppy shots were lifetime……. I had one litter one time get coronavirus , none of the adults were noticeably affected by it …….. I’ve had one dog with an allergy in my life , was a pup that got vaccinated like every 2 weeks , or whatever they used to recommend , with 5 way,6way , 9way vaccines like 4-5 times ……….. I’ve never had a dog get hepatitis , adeno or parvo , and that not a couple dogs , or isolated dogs , it's like 60 in my lifetime with free run to the outside 24/7/365 ……..


----------



## Cathie G

maggie18fan said:


> Corvallis is like that as well...Today I get to go to Home Depot, grocery store, pharmacy, and the 'wild life rescue'...I didn't mind staying home with all my animals, and yard work, housework...but as soon as it became mandatory...I balked...sometimes I wonder...what the heck is wrong with me...lol


Me too. Any other time I'd be mad at me for finding excuses to Stay Home.?


----------



## Cathie G

Yvonne G said:


> Funny thing about "mandatory" . . . When I went shopping yesterday the cashier said, "Since you brought your own bags, you'll have to bag your own groceries." Now I've been known to pitch in and bag my groceries when the cashier is alone, but there was just something off putting about being told I HAVE to do it.
> 
> On another note, I received an order from Amazon and it concerned me as if it contained a bomb. I didn't let it touch my clothes as I carried it into the house, I opened it and quickly tossed the germy box out into the sun. I wiped down the contents (packs of turmeric and cinnamon to make Golden something or other to help relieve Misty's pain) with antiseptic wipes, and I 'm sitting here in my recliner feeling like germs are crawling all over me.


? i guess we're a bit germy.?


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Dade county (Miami) has added a 10pm to 5am curfew to the stay home order.
Broward county (Fort Lauderdale) will likely follow suit soon.


----------



## EllieMay

Bee62 said:


> Sad that the use of Echinacea went down when antibiotics had been discovered. Good old medicine that our grandmothers knew is not always bad. I learned a lot about meds made of herbs, weeds, blossoms and other plants when I bought a sick horse. She suffers an old bronchitis and had a lot of mucos in her lungs. She was coughing often and not really rideable because of her lung disfunction. But she was a wonderful horse and so I bought her though I knew she was sick. After I owned her 2 years she was fully recovered and ran like a machine without lung problems. It was a great pleasure riding her ! Within these 2 years I saw a lot of other horses that suffers the same health problem like mine . These horses had been treatened by normal vets. Most of these horses went to the slaughter....
> Btw: I love baked beans. The "American style" with tomato sauce !


Sabine, I love you ?! If only I were closer, we could share our country’s best made, soul healing drink recipes..... and try them all together!


----------



## Yvonne G

I don't know if retired people, like me, are eligible to receive the check from the President's stimulus package, but if I am, I'd like to know who I can give mine to where it can do the most good. Anyone have any suggestions?


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Yvonne G said:


> I don't know if retired people, like me, are eligible to receive the check from the President's stimulus package, but if I am, I'd like to know who I can give mine to where it can do the most good. Anyone have any suggestions?


Yes.
Us retired people are also getting it.
If you filed taxes last year, you're getting it.
Needy people are everywhere.
You don't have to look hard. Just listen.
Tip big. Be generous.
$1,200 doesnt go very far.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

It's only a few weeks in and there are already a record number of couples filing for divorce.
Probably a lot of it is financial stress.


----------



## Maggie3fan

Yvonne G said:


> I don't know if retired people, like me, are eligible to receive the check from the President's stimulus package, but if I am, I'd like to know who I can give mine to where it can do the most good. Anyone have any suggestions?


You get it if you pay taxes, and I know you do...Keep the damn money Yvonne...it's yours and you will need it eventually....and if you are bound and determined to give it away...remember me up here in the wilds of Oregon...


----------



## EllieMay

ZEROPILOT said:


> It's only a few weeks in and there are already a record number of couples filing for divorce.
> Probably a lot of it is financial stress.


Or being locked in a house together!!!!


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Luckily my wife is a saint.
She needs to be living with me.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

maggie18fan said:


> You get it if you pay taxes, and I know you do...Keep the damn money Yvonne...it's yours and you will need it eventually....and if you are bound and determined to give it away...remember me up here in the wilds of Oregon...


And there you go...


----------



## ZEROPILOT

No fever going on 3 days.
Tomorrow I'm planning on going on my walk that I usually do every morning.
Should be ok. That park is more or less abandoned on a regular day. And we're on lockdown.


----------



## Toddrickfl1

My county gave the stay at home order last night. All non essential businesses must close.


----------



## Maggie3fan

ZEROPILOT said:


> And there you go...



If she didn't have me to tease her and pick on her...and publicly embarrass her...well heck...she'd only have people who are nice to her...and what fun is that???
Hope you are feeling better today...


----------



## Maggie3fan

Toddrickfl1 said:


> My county gave the stay at home order last night. All non essential businesses must close.



It's been that way here for over a week now...I have to take a 2 lane 55 mph hiway to town, and usually it's relatively heavy traffic...yesterday, no body, I was supposed to go the the hospital to get my monthly labs, or I wouldn't have ventured out...well...lol, maybe that's not exactly true...but as long as I was out anyway...I went to the Safeway...empty streets, empty shelves (at 6am)...and the employees...gone...a skeleton crew...and a 3/4 inch thick plastic shield to protect the clerk...X's on the floor telling me where to stand...they don't even bag your groceries...oh, and when I bought cat food last friday it was .55 a can...yesterday the same can was .69...isn't that price gouging in some way? For some reason, it affected me...people were white stony faced and tense...no smiles and no heard talking. My right hand and arm were injured in an accident in 2003, it doesn't work right...so here I am holding everyone up, fumbling and dropping stuff, the clerk staring at me, but no help...So I went home and skipped the hospital...safely home, whew...I 'think' I'm set for abt 3 weeks now.
Some how we just all need to stay together, support each other and we will survive


----------



## Toddrickfl1

maggie18fan said:


> It's been that way here for over a week now...I have to take a 2 lane 55 mph hiway to town, and usually it's relatively heavy traffic...yesterday, no body, I was supposed to go the the hospital to get my monthly labs, or I wouldn't have ventured out...well...lol, maybe that's not exactly true...but as long as I was out anyway...I went to the Safeway...empty streets, empty shelves (at 6am)...and the employees...gone...a skeleton crew...and a 3/4 inch thick plastic shield to protect the clerk...X's on the floor telling me where to stand...they don't even bag your groceries...oh, and when I bought cat food last friday it was .55 a can...yesterday the same can was .69...isn't that price gouging in some way? For some reason, it affected me...people were white stony faced and tense...no smiles and no heard talking. My right hand and arm were injured in an accident in 2003, it doesn't work right...so here I am holding everyone up, fumbling and dropping stuff, the clerk staring at me, but no help...So I went home and skipped the hospital...safely home, whew...I 'think' I'm set for abt 3 weeks now.
> Some how we just all need to stay together, support each other and we will survive


I've also noticed the price of things going up. Ive always bought the Jimmy Dean breakfast bowls for $2.00, yesterday went I went to the store they're now $3.69. Seems like price gouging to me.


----------



## Maggie3fan

Toddrickfl1 said:


> I've also noticed the price of things going up. Ive always bought the Jimmy Dean breakfast bowls for $2.00, yesterday went I went to the store they're now $3.69. Seems like price gouging to me.


Makes it seem more real doesn't it... ? premium gas is $2.79...so I filled the tank, but can't drive anywhere...lol


----------



## Toddrickfl1

maggie18fan said:


> Makes it seem more real doesn't it... ? premium gas is $2.79...so I filled the tank, but can't drive anywhere...lol


Ya especially when I haven't been to work in 3 weeks.


----------



## Maggie3fan

Toddrickfl1 said:


> Ya especially when I haven't been to work in 3 weeks.


I worry about families like you...at least my SS check will come every month.My friend owns her own nail salon in Clovis, were Yvonne is...Paula is a recently divorced Mom of a 17 yr old and 14 I think...and she had to close her salon...I worry about my friends...and am grateful that if I be good and stay home I may be alright...I hope you are as well...


----------



## Relic

ZEROPILOT said:


> No fever going on 3 days.
> Tomorrow I'm planning on going on my walk that I usually do every morning.
> Should be ok. That park is more or less abandoned on a regular day. And we're on lockdown.


I ride a bike to fight the flab and pass through a city park as I leave my neighborhood and venture out into the world. The park is full of walkers, joggers, strollers, dogs, etc. Everyone is keeping their distance, but it is clear that cabin fever is much more prevalent than corona. _Lockdown, schlockdown..._


----------



## queen koopa

maggie18fan said:


> It's been that way here for over a week now...I have to take a 2 lane 55 mph hiway to town, and usually it's relatively heavy traffic...yesterday, no body, I was supposed to go the the hospital to get my monthly labs, or I wouldn't have ventured out...well...lol, maybe that's not exactly true...but as long as I was out anyway...I went to the Safeway...empty streets, empty shelves (at 6am)...and the employees...gone...a skeleton crew...and a 3/4 inch thick plastic shield to protect the clerk...X's on the floor telling me where to stand...they don't even bag your groceries...oh, and when I bought cat food last friday it was .55 a can...yesterday the same can was .69...isn't that price gouging in some way? For some reason, it affected me...people were white stony faced and tense...no smiles and no heard talking. My right hand and arm were injured in an accident in 2003, it doesn't work right...so here I am holding everyone up, fumbling and dropping stuff, the clerk staring at me, but no help...So I went home and skipped the hospital...safely home, whew...I 'think' I'm set for abt 3 weeks now.
> Some how we just all need to stay together, support each other and we will survive


Man I really don’t like the city you have to use... everyone sounds like scared horrible people!


----------



## queen koopa

Nevada governor practices medicine now? 








Nevada governor limits malaria drugs for coronavirus patients


Nevada’s governor signed an executive order Tuesday limiting the use of anti-malaria drugs chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine for coronavirus patients. Democratic Gov. Steve Sisolak’s e…




nypost.com




?


----------



## queen koopa

Anyone read about the 101 yr old Italian man fighting off Corona 19?


----------



## jaizei

queen koopa said:


> Nevada governor practices medicine now?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nevada governor limits malaria drugs for coronavirus patients
> 
> 
> Nevada’s governor signed an executive order Tuesday limiting the use of anti-malaria drugs chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine for coronavirus patients. Democratic Gov. Steve Sisolak’s e…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> nypost.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ?




This article is both misleading and wrong. The drugs can still be used as treatment in in-patient settings. 




https://nvhealthresponse.nv.gov/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/3.24-RX-regulation.pdf


----------



## Maggie3fan

queen koopa said:


> Man I really don’t like the city you have to use... everyone sounds like scared horrible people!



They are mostly upper middle class snowflakes who have never had anything like this happen to them before...they don't seem to know how not to panic...


----------



## ZEROPILOT

I just read that anyone owing back child support will not be receiving a stimulus check.


----------



## Maro2Bear

maggie18fan said:


> Makes it seem more real doesn't it... ? premium gas is $2.79...so I filled the tank, but can't drive anywhere...lol



Our regular gas up here at Sams Club $1.74 / gallon. Not much demand when ppl aren't traveling.


----------



## Cathie G

maggie18fan said:


> It's been that way here for over a week now...I have to take a 2 lane 55 mph hiway to town, and usually it's relatively heavy traffic...yesterday, no body, I was supposed to go the the hospital to get my monthly labs, or I wouldn't have ventured out...well...lol, maybe that's not exactly true...but as long as I was out anyway...I went to the Safeway...empty streets, empty shelves (at 6am)...and the employees...gone...a skeleton crew...and a 3/4 inch thick plastic shield to protect the clerk...X's on the floor telling me where to stand...they don't even bag your groceries...oh, and when I bought cat food last friday it was .55 a can...yesterday the same can was .69...isn't that price gouging in some way? For some reason, it affected me...people were white stony faced and tense...no smiles and no heard talking. My right hand and arm were injured in an accident in 2003, it doesn't work right...so here I am holding everyone up, fumbling and dropping stuff, the clerk staring at me, but no help...So I went home and skipped the hospital...safely home, whew...I 'think' I'm set for abt 3 weeks now.
> Some how we just all need to stay together, support each other and we will survive


All our doctors are now doing phone interviews only. We supposedly haven't had any infections yet in our county. I'm glad though. I don't want exposed to their germiness anyway. I went to kroger and no dang tp AGAIN. They did have Kroger brand paper towels. I didn't buy them. The post office is making mail carriers work even if they're sick. Other businesses are using the essential business loopholes to stay open and force employees to go ahead and work. Like JoAnn's fabric craft store. So much for the social distancing being followed. And here I sit like an old hen in a stew.hehehe...?


----------



## Cathie G

Maro2Bear said:


> Our regular gas up here at Sams Club $1.74 / gallon. Not much demand when ppl aren't traveling.


Less air pollution too. The good Lord may have decided to cool things down a bit.??


----------



## Cathie G

Tom said:


> I LOVE bats!


So do I hehehe. ?


----------



## Cathie G

Bee62 said:


> Thank you for these true words. It is exacly how I feel too.


I suspected the same. Echinacea helps with tcells. Thanks to both of you.?


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Am I correct in thinking that vitamin C is just a good thing during virus season?
Specifically Orange juice?
It's cheaper than bottled water.


----------



## Gijoux

Tom said:


> Here is something that makes no sense to me. Perhaps someone can help me understand.
> 
> I know where the concept of the 6 feet between people comes from. I had a vet in college that taught us as a general rule there needed to be at least 6 feet between animal cages to greatly reduce the chances of spreading most contagious diseases.
> 
> What is 6 feet between people going to do when this C19 is supposedly able to survive on airborne micro droplets for 3 hours, and on surfaces for days? It makes no sense.
> 
> I know of a lot of people who've been sick this year, all recovered, tested negative for flu, and the symptoms line up perfectly with C19. If this thing spreads this easily, I can't imagine that anyone in this country hasn't already been exposed to it, myself included. Like any sickness, exposure is not a guarantee that you'll become sick and show symptoms. Some people's immune systems simply fight it off.
> 
> Something is fishy here. Very fishy. Red herring fishy. Now we have a Universal Basic Income plan being proposed and supported by both sides? Free gift money for everyone adding up to trillions? We're being played. We're so screwed...



Tom you are absolutely correct. I think the 6 feet apart under this circumstance is to guarantee we aren't congregating in groups to discuss how we're being duped. There is power in numbers and people should be waking up pretty soon. The UK has stopped the quarantine idea already, days ago. This whole thing is being driven by "Big Pharma" to prepare us us for the nearly 300 new vaccines in the pipeline. Big Pharma owns all the TV and internet networks through purchasing all the majority of commercial time and they decide what will make the headlines and what will even be allowed on TV. Chaos, propaganda and fear are the best ways to get people to cooperate. They will only allow the networks to report that which will make us fearful and broken; and then set it up, just like they are, to make us completely dependent on the government to bail us out. 

Right now they have the whole world waiting on a vaccine for COVID-19. Did you know that there is no liability for doctors using or the manufacturing of vaccines? Vaccines are liability free!! They have never been able to create a vaccine for any of the 100's of coronavirus versions out there. I fear this entire escapade has been designed to usher in mandatory vaccination, not only for our children, but for every adult too. It's a big money maker for Big Pharma with no worry of liability. I fear they will hold all Social Security, insurance, welfare, unemployment, employment, Medicare, you name it, unless you agree to receive all the (nearly 70) vaccines they now have and all the future vaccines now in the pipeline. 

Bill Gates will implement his ID 2020 this year, which includes chipping us all with our medical and other information, including what vaccines you have been given, if you own a gun, if you've been arrested... This might even sound good to some people. Many of us possess genetic polymorphisms like MTHFR, that cannot detox well, especially from the adjuvants added to vaccines and we will be, and have been, harmed by vaccines. Any of us with autoimmune disease should not be given any vaccines. In America we should be able to have a choice as to what medical interventions we want to risk or not. They have tried diligently to make Vaccination Mandatory to attend school. They have managed to eliminate Philosophical and Religious Exemptions from Calif, New York, Maine, Tennessee and West Virginia. They have made it nearly impossible in those states to even get a Medical Exemption. We have been losing more and more of these rights recently and in fact right now we have practically lost all our rights. Anybody who tries reporting what I am saying has already been banned from Facebook. Censorship is rampant! It is becoming more difficult to actually even be able to find the truth.

Even if you love vaccines and think they are amazing, you should be concerned that those who don't, can't have a choice anymore. People have been led to believe that these diseases live in us all the time and vaccines remove the disease. This just isn't true. You have nothing to fear from an unvaccinated person. Herd immunity only exists for the unvaccinated population through acquiring and fighting off the disease, after which they will have lifetime immunity. Herd immunity can never be developed in the vaccinated population, because any of the little bit of immunity acquired from a vaccine doesn't last. This is why boosters are required. Big Brother is poised to know everything about everybody to an even greater extent than it does already. I know I sound like a complete conspiracy theorist, but honestly I see it coming. I'm old, I have lived a long time and I know History, something young people have conveniently not been taught. The Socialist Agenda always starts just like this. I truly don't know how we can fight back either because Big Pharma has nearly every legislator in their pocket. They are rewarded monetarily for voting a particular way. When we all have to surrender our guns, the end of our society as we know it will have arrived.


----------



## Yvonne G

maggie18fan said:


> If she didn't have me to tease her and pick on her...and publicly embarrass her...well heck...she'd only have people who are nice to her...and what fun is that???
> Hope you are feeling better today...


Speaking of being nice,. . .

I'm a loner, and I appreciate my aloneness. And it always amazes me when someone is nice to me because I feel like I'm the ugly troll who lives under the bridge.

Yesterday I got an email from an acquaintance in SoCal offering to send me animal supplies if I need any, and an hour or so ago someone I used to know in the turtle club here called me asking if she could go to the produce store for me and letting me know she's willing to be at my beck and call.

It's heartwarming to know I'm on people's minds!


----------



## Gijoux

ZenHerper said:


> Not fishy at all.
> 
> It's just a layer of pro-social behavior modification that keeps us all present to the Awareness that we are in a risky situation.
> 
> If you set your brain to keep a 6-foot distance, you won't instinctively hug or shake hands or kiss a friend. You can't reach! Your brain remains mindful of the fact that surfaces are an issue; you make a continuous mental note to wash your hands properly at the next available sink.
> 
> 18% of known-infected people require hospitalization. I don't want to be hospitalized. I don't want to be tubed and put on a ventilator. I don't want to wake up and have them hand me the bill. I don't want to wake up and find that My Person has died. Alone. And that my pets have been confiscated by animal control and re-homed.
> 
> I don't want to be the cause of that happening to other people in my community, or across the country.
> 
> The way we manage influenza viruses in the U.S. is crap. That is not a good excuse for mismanaging this situation.
> 
> The smart choice is to do whatever we can think of to protect ourselves. The pro-social choice is to do whatever we can think of to protect others.



You have much more to fear from the regular flu. It kills people 10 times the rate of COVID-19 EACH AND EVERY YEAR. You don't see them shutting down the world every flu season do you. They just aren't telling you this. Look it up ZenHerper, I'm not pulling your leg. Social distancing is the beginning of creating a lifestyle where people will have to fear each other. The high rate of hospitalization that you are quoting comes from the fact that only the very, very sick are being tested. They are dying WITH Coronavirus not from Coronavirus. They are dying from pneumonia just like from the flu. Cases of the flu are actually super, super low when actually tested. They die from pneumonia WITH the flu. Our country only has 1 hospital bed for every 1000 citizens. Japan and South Korea have 12 beds for every 1000.


----------



## Gijoux

ZEROPILOT said:


> Am I correct in thinking that vitamin C is just a good thing during virus season?
> Specifically Orange juice?
> It's cheaper than bottled water.


Orange Juice has too much sugar.


----------



## jaizei

ZEROPILOT said:


> Am I correct in thinking that vitamin C is just a good thing during virus season?
> Specifically Orange juice?
> It's cheaper than bottled water.




Big Citrus has gotten to you. tsk tsk

I stopped drinking most orange juice after I learned how it's processed/made, etc. Compared to the way a lot of juices are actually cocktails with an apple juice base, i had such respect for orange juice until then.


----------



## Cathie G

queen koopa said:


> Anyone read about the 101 yr old Italian man fighting off Corona 19?


I saw a 100 year woman that survived it on the news today.


----------



## Gijoux

queen koopa said:


> A point my sister just brought up to me for a reason America wasn’t hit as hard as other countries because Americans have been raised with personal space standards. We don’t kiss on cheeks when meeting, we don’t stand on top of each other in line, and keep our hands our self.
> 
> Also another note, our house just got appraised at $500k 2 weeks ago, and now we just got a note from Mortgage watch that our house is now $800k.



Yes, I've noticed everything costs more. $150 for a case of Scott Shop Towels online that only cost about $24 a few weeks ago.


----------



## Gijoux

ZenHerper said:


> I'm pretty sure we've bereaved the media and government already.
> 
> 
> Look, you have to vet your sources. I can't say what's making you so paranoid, but you have to compare that rhetoric to proper scientific and statistical sources. Precious few people in this thread provide citations for what they reference/claim. A lot of what is being thrown about is baseless. The internet is an environment ripe with misinformation. Feed your brain ideas from healthful sources, or develop, like, mental MBD.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What does the coronavirus mean for the U.S. health care system? Some simple math offers alarming answers
> 
> 
> At a 10% hospitalization rate, all hospital beds in the U.S. will be filled by about May 10. As #Covid19 cases saturate nearly every state and county, health care workers would burn through the national stockpile of N95 masks in two days.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.statnews.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *************
> 
> Human DNA is programmed for each individual to gather what is Best for them. But we are part of a highly social species. The second question is, "What is the Best I can give to others?"
> 
> It is easy to identify anti-social people. They do and say anti-social things.
> 
> ************
> 
> 52% of the total deaths in NJ had NO underlying medical conditions.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Office of the Governor | Governor Murphy Announces That New Jersey Has Received Major Disaster Declaration
> 
> 
> The declaration will provide federal assistance to supplement statewide recovery efforts affected by the COVID-19 pandemic beginning on January 20, 2020.
> 
> 
> 
> www.nj.gov



Follow the money ZenHerper!!


----------



## Gijoux

ZenHerper said:


> Louisiana runs headlong into the pandemic: nfection rates skyrocketed since Mardi Gras. Nearly half of hospitalized patients there are on ventilators.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Louisiana Coronavirus Updates: 2nd death reported at retirement community, 196 cases
> 
> 
> New Orleans' restrictions on businesses and gatherings are now in effect. The governor's statewide rules start tomorrow.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.wwltv.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Louisiana Coronavirus | La Dept. of Health
> 
> 
> The Louisiana Department of Health protects and promotes health and ensures access to medical, preventive and rehabilitative services for all citizens of the State of Louisiana.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ldh.la.gov



Why do you think these sources are to be trusted? What makes this information correct?


----------



## Gijoux

Blackdog1714 said:


> Mythbuster’s sneeze episode is in one word Terrifying!



Loved this. Too funny.


----------



## Gijoux

queen koopa said:


> So how is the government going to justify city closures and then reopen all closed business that have major viral & bacterial infection risks on a daily? Like high volume restaurants and bars? Movie theaters? Spas? Spas is a big one... much is not checked as it is and that is very very disturbing..... Many of the high volume gatherings in our society involve alcohol, and a lot of it: LAS VEGAS (HA), concerts, sporting events, festivals, clubs, bars.... Intoxicated humans forget all sorts of things... NO way to remind drunk (or worse) people to keep distance, use tissues, wash hands, not throw up in public, not kiss 6 people, not share joints.... What are going to be the changes ?



Exactly!!


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Yvonne G said:


> Speaking of being nice,. . .
> 
> I'm a loner, and I appreciate my aloneness. And it always amazes me when someone is nice to me because I feel like I'm the ugly troll who lives under the bridge.
> 
> Yesterday I got an email from an acquaintance in SoCal offering to send me animal supplies if I need any, and an hour or so ago someone I used to know in the turtle club here called me asking if she could go to the produce store for me and letting me know she's willing to be at my beck and call.
> 
> It's heartwarming to know I'm on people's minds!


I'm know I'm not the only one here that is actually quite fond of you.
I think that your self perception is wrong.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

This orange juice is not from concentrate and has no added anything. It's made just up the road from here.


----------



## Gijoux

mark1 said:


> i am a firm believer in natural immunities ........Use to never vaccinate our dogs , then we got to a point where we gave them every vaccine known to man , 5way , 6 way , 9 way ...... then we ended up at a point where we minimally vaccinate them ……… I’d always vaccinate the puppies….. when mono-valent vaccines were more easily available i used them 2 weeks apart , I’d give them distemper measles at 6weeks and parvo at 8 weeks , I’d not vaccinate them again until after 12 weeks with parvo and distemper , I’d never give them another vaccination for the rest of their lives aside from rabies as adults ……… I never vaccinate the adult dogs , I believe the pups shedding virus from their vaccinations must have immunized the adults , or their immunities from their puppy shots were lifetime……. I had one litter one time get coronavirus , none of the adults were noticeably affected by it …….. I’ve had one dog with an allergy in my life , was a pup that got vaccinated like every 2 weeks , or whatever they used to recommend , with 5 way,6way , 9way vaccines like 4-5 times ……….. I’ve never had a dog get hepatitis , adeno or parvo , and that not a couple dogs , or isolated dogs , it's like 60 in my lifetime with free run to the outside 24/7/365 ……..


Mark1 I'm with you. You will have to look this up ZenHarper, but we in the medical community were warned years and years ago that giving the Chickenpox vaccine to children would eventually create a Shingles epidemic and sure enough it has. In the past when children developed Chickenpox, a mild childhood virus for most, they would inadvertently boost the adults in the family including the grand-parents. This helped prevent Shingles later in life. Now we have an epidemic of Shingles in adults and the younger children too. When an adult comes in contact with a child who has been given the Chickenpox vaccine or an adult who has been given the Shingles vaccine they now have a much greater probability of developing Shingles. We also see a large group of adults vaccinated with the Shingles vaccine who develop Shingles for life. Not fun.


----------



## Gijoux

Yvonne G said:


> I don't know if retired people, like me, are eligible to receive the check from the President's stimulus package, but if I am, I'd like to know who I can give mine to where it can do the most good. Anyone have any suggestions?



Yvonne, Keep it and put it in your savings, because I promise you that you and your Tortoises will need it soon.


----------



## Gijoux

ZEROPILOT said:


> No fever going on 3 days.
> Tomorrow I'm planning on going on my walk that I usually do every morning.
> Should be ok. That park is more or less abandoned on a regular day. And we're on lockdown.



Our community Parks here in Southern Calif. are all closed off and no one can enter them.


----------



## JMM

We are in lock down in MA. Nothing other than grocery, liquor and hardware stores are open. Shelves are similarly empty. Figure out what you need for a month or more to minimize your need to go out. Online sources (Chewy, Mazuri, and food warehouse sites--just google your items) are good for essentials, including TP--split large quantities with neighbors--just expect to wait 1-2 weeks plus for delivery.


----------



## JMM

Be respectful of the virus--read this:









What I Learned When My Husband Got Sick With Coronavirus (Published 2020)


Our world became one of isolation, round-the-clock care, panic and uncertainty — even as society carried on around us with all too few changes.




www.nytimes.com


----------



## Gijoux

JMM said:


> Be respectful of the virus--read this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What I Learned When My Husband Got Sick With Coronavirus (Published 2020)
> 
> 
> Our world became one of isolation, round-the-clock care, panic and uncertainty — even as society carried on around us with all too few changes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.nytimes.com



New York Times. Hmmm


----------



## Warren

Gijoux said:


> Our community Parks here in Southern Calif. are all closed off and no one can enter them.


Here in Baltimore, someone removed the basketball hoops from the backboards overnight. The park has no gates to lock. Or somebody just needed some hoops, wouldn't the first time they have gone missing.


----------



## Toddrickfl1

Social distancing Pooch style


----------



## Tom

Gijoux said:


> Why do you think these sources are to be trusted? What makes this information correct?


Thanks for speaking up on this topic.

I don't trust someone who tells me to trust the media and the government. Human history and our current history is rife with examples of the evils of governments and their propaganda machines. They are not to be trusted, and the people who founded this country knew it all too well. Those who don't know their history...


----------



## Cathie G

Gijoux said:


> Yvonne, Keep it and put it in your savings, because I promise you that you and your Tortoises will need it soon.


Amen.


----------



## Cathie G

JMM said:


> We are in lock down in MA. Nothing other than grocery, liquor and hardware stores are open. Shelves are similarly empty. Figure out what you need for a month or more to minimize your need to go out. Online sources (Chewy, Mazuri, and food warehouse sites--just google your items) are good for essentials, including TP--split large quantities with neighbors--just expect to wait 1-2 weeks plus for delivery.


Oh..so ma...considers liquor stores essential? That's good because the hoarders will stock pile it and not share otherwise.


----------



## Cathie G

Gijoux said:


> Mark1 I'm with you. You will have to look this up ZenHarper, but we in the medical community were warned years and years ago that giving the Chickenpox vaccine to children would eventually create a Shingles epidemic and sure enough it has. In the past when children developed Chickenpox, a mild childhood virus for most, they would inadvertently boost the adults in the family including the grand-parents. This helped prevent Shingles later in life. Now we have an epidemic of Shingles in adults and the younger children too. When an adult comes in contact with a child who has been given the Chickenpox vaccine or an adult who has been given the Shingles vaccine they now have a much greater probability of developing Shingles. We also see a large group of adults vaccinated with the Shingles vaccine who develop Shingles for life. Not fun.


Thanks again. I was advised to give my brother the shingles vaccine at 60 years because he actually went through shingles. I can't bring myself to do it


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Gijoux said:


> Our community Parks here in Southern Calif. are all closed off and no one can enter them.


Yep.
Volunteer park is gated up and closed.
But we found one nearer to home that was still open and was also more or less abandoned.


----------



## Cathie G

ZEROPILOT said:


> I'm know I'm not the only one here that is actually quite fond of you.
> I think that your self perception is wrong.


Yes. Same here. Yavonne is a favorite of mine...as well with others here. She helped me with information and support I desperately needed.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Yes. Same here. Yavonne is a favorite of mine...as well with others here. She helped me with information and support I desperately needed.
[/QUOTE]
She seems genuinely friendly and helpful.
Either one of those would qualify.


----------



## Bee62

EllieMay said:


> Sabine, I love you ?! If only I were closer, we could share our country’s best made, soul healing drink recipes..... and try them all together!


I would love to do that with you, Heather !


----------



## Gijoux

I hope you can open this and watch. The video starts at 1 minute. This is full of all kinds of independent science. 









TRUMP VS FAUCI: BATTLE OF AGENDAS
TRUMP VS FAUCI: BATTLE OF AGENDAS While fear and uncertainty spread across the globe, The HighWire exposes a battle of agendas raging at our highest levels o...
youtu.be


----------



## Fluffy

Gijoux said:


> You have much more to fear from the regular flu. It kills people 10 times the rate of COVID-19 EACH AND EVERY YEAR. You don't see them shutting down the world every flu season do you. They just aren't telling you this. Look it up ZenHerper, I'm not pulling your leg. Social distancing is the beginning of creating a lifestyle where people will have to fear each other. The high rate of hospitalization that you are quoting comes from the fact that only the very, very sick are being tested. They are dying WITH Coronavirus not from Coronavirus. They are dying from pneumonia just like from the flu. Cases of the flu are actually super, super low when actually tested. They die from pneumonia WITH the flu. Our country only has 1 hospital bed for every 1000 citizens. Japan and South Korea have 12 beds for every 1000.


Where in the heck do you get your numbers. How is your spreading fear of the government ok but the so called government propaganda bad. Please stop pretended this isn't serious. If we can't trust any of the figures out there we can't trust yours either.


----------



## JMM

Thank you Fluffy.


----------



## Maro2Bear

Warren said:


> Here in Baltimore, someone removed the basketball hoops from the backboards overnight. The park has no gates to lock. Or somebody just needed some hoops, wouldn't the first time they have gone missing.



Maryland Gov Hogan”s office announced today that they closed all parks, were in the process of removing all basketball hoops & nets & tennis court nets too. Too many ppl out congregating. So, all Parks & beach areas closed.
/Twitter / Mike Ricci spokesman fir Gov’s office /


----------



## Yvonne G

It's really a shame when you can't police yourself so the government has to do it for you.


----------



## Cathie G

Toddrickfl1 said:


> Social distancing Pooch style
> View attachment 289099
> View attachment 289100


Screen shot...


----------



## ZEROPILOT

@Fluffy 
How are you both a new member and a five year member?


----------



## Cathie G

Cathie G said:


> Screen shot...


Oh yea ...cute doggie pictures are needed here right now!?


----------



## jaizei

ZEROPILOT said:


> @Fluffy
> How are you both a new member and a five year member?



The title (New Member) is based on points, while the banner is based on time.

***edit: title based on points by default unless changed to something else by moderator or admin


----------



## ZEROPILOT

jaizei said:


> The title (New Member) is based on points, while the banner is based on time.


Oh
I see.


----------



## Cathie G

Cathie G said:


> Oh yea ...cute doggie pictures are needed here right now!?


I have an ulterior motive. I'm trying to?...nudge my brother into painting adorable dog paintings. His paintings end up hilarious.love...


----------



## queen koopa

Gijoux said:


> Mark1 I'm with you. You will have to look this up ZenHarper, but we in the medical community were warned years and years ago that giving the Chickenpox vaccine to children would eventually create a Shingles epidemic and sure enough it has. In the past when children developed Chickenpox, a mild childhood virus for most, they would inadvertently boost the adults in the family including the grand-parents. This helped prevent Shingles later in life. Now we have an epidemic of Shingles in adults and the younger children too. When an adult comes in contact with a child who has been given the Chickenpox vaccine or an adult who has been given the Shingles vaccine they now have a much greater probability of developing Shingles. We also see a large group of adults vaccinated with the Shingles vaccine who develop Shingles for life. Not fun.


Me too. I took a screen shot of this post to make mental notes about my dogs! ??


----------



## Blackdog1714

Gijoux said:


> Mark1 I'm with you. You will have to look this up ZenHarper, but we in the medical community were warned years and years ago that giving the Chickenpox vaccine to children would eventually create a Shingles epidemic and sure enough it has. In the past when children developed Chickenpox, a mild childhood virus for most, they would inadvertently boost the adults in the family including the grand-parents. This helped prevent Shingles later in life. Now we have an epidemic of Shingles in adults and the younger children too. When an adult comes in contact with a child who has been given the Chickenpox vaccine or an adult who has been given the Shingles vaccine they now have a much greater probability of developing Shingles. We also see a large group of adults vaccinated with the Shingles vaccine who develop Shingles for life. Not fun.


So if with having chickenpox in my youth I have a very low chance of getting Shingles! Please be real and not internet nonsense!


----------



## ZEROPILOT

I've had chicken pox twice.
That's not supposed to happen.


----------



## Tom

Fluffy said:


> Where in the heck do you get your numbers. How is your spreading fear of the government ok but the so called government propaganda bad. Please stop pretended this isn't serious. If we can't trust any of the figures out there we can't trust yours either.


Fear, uncertainty, panic, mistrust, disunity... Seems to be working.

Sir or Ma'am, if you are not afraid of your government, you have not been paying attention for the last few decades.


----------



## Maggie3fan

ZEROPILOT said:


> @Fluffy
> How are you both a new member and a five year member?


I wondered that myself...I've


ZEROPILOT said:


> @Fluffy
> How are you both a new member and a five year member?


I wondered that myself...But then...I've been a member since 2008...can't tell tho...


----------



## Markw84

I really have trouble following some of the more recent posts here and the apparent trend to discount this issue. I just this evening got a group message from a very good friend of mine that I used to do semimars and public speaking with. This is a very strong, active individual. Was one of the top female softball players in the world that did world tours and taught olympic players. Thought it may provide a needed perspective:

_Good people. I wanted to tell you that Rosemary and I have tested positive for COVID-19. We believe we were infected on Friday 13. I started having serious symptoms a week ago. We were lucky enough to get tested pretty quickly, and it became official Wednesday. You should know that these symptoms are no joke. I have never been so sick in my life, and I’ve had a few tangles with other illnesses. COVID 19 is overwhelming.
I thought I was being careful. I’m not a risk-taker with my health, but I got it anyway. I am right in the middle of this thing and weeks and months ahead of almost everyone I know. I want you all to understand that it’s worse than you think. Way worse.
When you have a choice between your normal habits and what you know to be safer habits, I don’t want you to think twice. Please err on the side of health, yours and the other people’s you come into contact with. If I knew two weeks ago what I know now, I wouldn’t have left our home, for however long it takes.
I can’t do much about my situation now, I’ve got to ride this thing out and hope for the best. But there’s lots you can do. If this message can make you re-think how seriously you’re taking COVID-19, I will feel like my message is successful .....even while I’m lying here in my bed. I’m encouraging you and cheering you on to be smart, for yourself and the rest of us. I don’t want to see any more of my friends getting sick.
Rosemary S Harris symptoms are gone...thank goodness. If you see her walking our dogs, please avoid her and do not pet our dog. We are trying to stay away from them but they aren’t having it and we are worried it’s on their fur.
This will not be over by Easter. Cuomo seems to be the truth teller right now. Over 600 are waiting for tests from St. Francis. I know our city is doing all we can but please do your part. I am in awe of our first responders. Truly.
I will post again in a few days. Please don’t call us. Our phones are off. We don’t need one thing.
Please stay safe. Much love to all._


----------



## Fluffy

Tom said:


> Fear, uncertainty, panic, mistrust, disunity... Seems to be working.
> 
> Sir or Ma'am, if you are not afraid of your government, you have not been paying attention for the last few decades.


I guess it's sir but I don't feel like one lol. This has nothing to do with fear of the government and has everything to do with spreading fear and confusion with conspiracy theories not based in facts. We have a serious problem on our hands and the actions we take as a society will have a huge affect on peoples lives. I never said we should blindly trust anyone. We need to follow CDC and WHO guidelines and not be looking for reason to make light of this. Now is not the time to spread mistrust it is the time to come together and help one another. Wait until we have medicine that has been proven to work and a vaccine then spread all the government hate you want. I'm not here to argue with you or anyone else. Just know there are many people on here who need to be cautious because their lives may depend on it.


----------



## queen koopa

Markw84 said:


> I really have trouble following some of the more recent posts here and the apparent trend to discount this issue. I just this evening got a group message from a very good friend of mine that I used to do semimars and public speaking with. This is a very strong, active individual. Was one of the top female softball players in the world that did world tours and taught olympic players. Thought it may provide a needed perspective:
> 
> _Good people. I wanted to tell you that Rosemary and I have tested positive for COVID-19. We believe we were infected on Friday 13. I started having serious symptoms a week ago. We were lucky enough to get tested pretty quickly, and it became official Wednesday. You should know that these symptoms are no joke. I have never been so sick in my life, and I’ve had a few tangles with other illnesses. COVID 19 is overwhelming.
> I thought I was being careful. I’m not a risk-taker with my health, but I got it anyway. I am right in the middle of this thing and weeks and months ahead of almost everyone I know. I want you all to understand that it’s worse than you think. Way worse.
> When you have a choice between your normal habits and what you know to be safer habits, I don’t want you to think twice. Please err on the side of health, yours and the other people’s you come into contact with. If I knew two weeks ago what I know now, I wouldn’t have left our home, for however long it takes.
> I can’t do much about my situation now, I’ve got to ride this thing out and hope for the best. But there’s lots you can do. If this message can make you re-think how seriously you’re taking COVID-19, I will feel like my message is successful .....even while I’m lying here in my bed. I’m encouraging you and cheering you on to be smart, for yourself and the rest of us. I don’t want to see any more of my friends getting sick.
> Rosemary S Harris symptoms are gone...thank goodness. If you see her walking our dogs, please avoid her and do not pet our dog. We are trying to stay away from them but they aren’t having it and we are worried it’s on their fur.
> This will not be over by Easter. Cuomo seems to be the truth teller right now. Over 600 are waiting for tests from St. Francis. I know our city is doing all we can but please do your part. I am in awe of our first responders. Truly.
> I will post again in a few days. Please don’t call us. Our phones are off. We don’t need one thing.
> Please stay safe. Much love to all._


Most of us are able to feel sympathy and empathy for others. It’s a matter of being able to put yourself in other peoples positions or stoping yourself and remembering past experiences of your own. Covid 19 is REAL. No one has said its fake and its a conspiracy. Our species is over populated thus making viruses and infection inevitable (rats and cockroaches anybody? Yep, those are ours!) I know 2 people who are infected, one has recovered and one was admitted to the hospital yesterday and is getting worse.

Some of us are trying to say something along the lines that Government, The Hidden Hand, or whoever, controls the movement of information or lack of to the public. They use specific words to draw attention, dramatize, & offend certain people to create disunity. In the case of Covid 19, figures and statistics change daily preventing logical assessments. This should have been a time to work together as a society creating awareness and then implementing permanent changes to how we operate. Mainly our sanitation and health standards starting with environmental and diet. Also the health care industry! I’d say there are major discrepancies in our hospitals financial runnings creating lack of resources. Instead we are social distancing and constitutional rights are being threatened.


----------



## Gijoux

Blackdog1714 said:


> So if with having chickenpox in my youth I have a very low chance of getting Shingles! Please be real and not internet nonsense!



Almost no one today has a low chance of getting Shingles, because the majority of our children and grandchildren have never had natural chickenpox to boost our immune system throughout the years, for this particular herpes virus. Sorry to say, but having had chickenpox as a child, in this present day scenario, makes us more likely to get Shingles.


----------



## Tom

Fluffy said:


> I guess it's sir but I don't feel like one lol.


I don't understand this quote. You are a male, but don't feel like one? What do you mean by this? Is it a joke that I'm not getting? Sometimes jokes go right over my head...




Fluffy said:


> This has nothing to do with fear of the government and has everything to do with spreading fear and confusion with conspiracy theories not based in facts. We have a serious problem on our hands and the actions we take as a society will have a huge affect on peoples lives.



This has everything to do with the New World Order that has been building for decades. Not based in facts? Its a fact that our entire society and economy is shut down until further notice over a virus that no one seems to really know the facts about. It is a fact that the .gov, which already has us in trillions of dollars of debt, has now halted the entire economy, and is about to hand out trillions of dollars back to us, with plans to do this on a regular basis. Its a fact, that we are about to be forced into having some sort of biometric ID system that tracks everything we do from now on. It is a fact that there is an enormous power grab in the works, and that we are being manipulated in ways we don't even know about yet.

Have some people died that were infected with this virus? Yes. That much is obvious. How many of them were already on death's door? How many of them would have died if they'd been infected with "regular" flu? How many of us have been exposed and our immune systems successfully defeated this virus as most of our immune systems do every single day with uncountable numbers of viruses and other infectious pathogens that surround us? If we tested everyone, I'll bet that by this point, almost everyone has been in contact with it. We have annual flus that regularly kill 10,000+ people a month in this country. C19 has killed a fraction of that, as far as we can tell from what "they" are telling us and allowing us to know. But how do any of us really know what is or isn't true anymore?

You think those of us questioning what the heck is going on are spreading fear and confusion? You weren't scared and confused about all this before you read my posts? I am terrified by what I am seeing. I have no idea how far this is going to go or how bad its going to get. I went from making six figures a year to making nothing, zero, zilch, overnight. No warning. No choice. No way around it. No end of it in sight. No recourse. No way to change it. We are seeing the end of society as we know it. I knew something big was coming, but never imagined it would be done in this way.

I agree that we need to come together and help each other. I agree that our lives may depend on it. My words on these pages are intended to do just that.


----------



## Yvonne G

I think he was referring to be called the respectful term, 'sir.' Maybe didn't feel worthy of that respect??? At least that's how I read it.


----------



## Maro2Bear

Yvonne G said:


> I think he was referring to be called the respectful term, 'sir.' Maybe didn't feel worthy of that respect??? At least that's how I read it.



I’m with you @Yvonne G, ”Sir” who me.?...ogh yeah. Or “Mr”...when I hear Mister in front of my sir name, I think someone wants my dad!


----------



## Maro2Bear

Markw84 said:


> I really have trouble following some of the more recent posts here and the apparent trend to discount this issue. I just this evening got a group message from a very good friend of mine that I used to do semimars and public speaking with. This is a very strong, active individual. Was one of the top female softball players in the world that did world tours and taught olympic players. Thought it may provide a needed perspective:
> 
> _Good people. I wanted to tell you that Rosemary and I have tested positive for COVID-19. We believe we were infected on Friday 13. I started having serious symptoms a week ago. We were lucky enough to get tested pretty quickly, and it became official Wednesday. You should know that these symptoms are no joke. I have never been so sick in my life, and I’ve had a few tangles with other illnesses. COVID 19 is overwhelming.
> I thought I was being careful. I’m not a risk-taker with my health, but I got it anyway. I am right in the middle of this thing and weeks and months ahead of almost everyone I know. I want you all to understand that it’s worse than you think. Way worse.
> When you have a choice between your normal habits and what you know to be safer habits, I don’t want you to think twice. Please err on the side of health, yours and the other people’s you come into contact with. If I knew two weeks ago what I know now, I wouldn’t have left our home, for however long it takes.
> I can’t do much about my situation now, I’ve got to ride this thing out and hope for the best. But there’s lots you can do. If this message can make you re-think how seriously you’re taking COVID-19, I will feel like my message is successful .....even while I’m lying here in my bed. I’m encouraging you and cheering you on to be smart, for yourself and the rest of us. I don’t want to see any more of my friends getting sick.
> Rosemary S Harris symptoms are gone...thank goodness. If you see her walking our dogs, please avoid her and do not pet our dog. We are trying to stay away from them but they aren’t having it and we are worried it’s on their fur.
> This will not be over by Easter. Cuomo seems to be the truth teller right now. Over 600 are waiting for tests from St. Francis. I know our city is doing all we can but please do your part. I am in awe of our first responders. Truly.
> I will post again in a few days. Please don’t call us. Our phones are off. We don’t need one thing.
> Please stay safe. Much love to all._



Thanks for posting. I’m guessing those folks live in NY area given refs to Cuomo.


----------



## Fluffy

Yvonne G said:


> I think he was referring to be called the respectful term, 'sir.' Maybe didn't feel worthy of that respect??? At least that's how I read it.


Thank you Yvonne. Yes that's how I meant it. When someone calls me Sir I find myself looking around to see who they're talking to. I guess I don't feel old enough to be a sir but I am.


----------



## Fluffy

Tom said:


> I agree that we need to come together and help each other. I agree that our lives may depend on it. My words on these pages are intended to do just that.


Maybe that's what you intend but when people question the 6 foot rule and say the people dying were maybe sick or died from other problems or that the the Flu would kill many more people every year that confuses people. You don't know that when this is done the Flu would of killed more people. It's too early to know much about this virus. I don't think people realize that social media and forums can have a big impact on others. Some people may get their info from social media only and read what you said and think it's no worse than Flu. Then they don't take the proper precautions to protect their selves and others. You look at how we have County Officials, State Officials, City Officials, Governors and the President all telling us what to do and it seems none are in agreement. This causes confusion and people don't know what to do or what is safe. It's the same thing with comments on here. I'm not concerned with your thoughts on the government and I'm not trying to argue with you or change your mind. I just wish everyone would be cautious follow the protocols laid out by the CDC and WHO and get through this safely.


----------



## Bambam1989

I thought I would check in, haven't been on in some time. 
For those who don't know, we have moved back to East texas where our family is. Stores seem to be selling out of certain things quite quickly- toilet paper, paper towels, rice, canned goods, and ammo.
In my parents neighborhood they have begun giving out food and necessities to everyone, they bring a bag of random stuff out and put it in the back of your vehicle so no one gets out. My mom was one of the last ones in line and they told her that they were out of everything except beets, and asked if she wanted them. She was given a 50 pound bag of beets! Apparently they forgot to give them out with the other stuff... Then my uncle gave her another bag that he was given. She then called me and asked if we ate beets, I told her yes that we eat them. "Great! Come get some.." turns out my dad hates beets and my mom only wanted a few. So now I have almost 100pounds of beets in my kitchen... I guess I'll be doing some canning.
A cousin who works over seas on an oil rig was sent home after he started running a fever, a few days later his entire site was sent home. He tried to get the test for covid 19 and they refused him for almost a week even knowing that he had contact with an individual from London. When they finally tested him he was already recovering. It took 4 days to receive the results and it registered as a no for the covid 19. But he was getting better, would it be accurate? According to him it was the sickest he has ever been, and thought he was going to die. He is early 40s no known health issues but he is a heavy smoker. He quarantined at home and was never admitted to the hospital, according to him he was told to stay away. He is still self quarantined as of now, along with his wife and son.
I don't have any doubt that this virus is real and something to take seriously. But I dont like or trust how this is being handled. 
My husband told me earlier this week that he had a feeling we should buy some veggie seeds and start up a garden so he went and bought some. The next day the local news was advising people to start a garden, that there were rumors of potential food shortages due to delivery problems. Great more people panicking.
Tensions are high but people here are still being civil for now. I feel like something is going to have to give, just waiting to see if it's better or worse.


----------



## Fluffy

Last thing and crawl back under my rock and leave this thread to the regulars. We all just need to be mindful of how we are communicating things at a time like this. We need to walk a fine line between sharing info and unintentionally saying things that may scare or confuse people. Those types of comments lead people to write off all other info because they don't feel they can trust anything. That's all I'm saying. Stay safe everyone.


----------



## jaizei

Tom said:


> This has everything to do with the New World Order that has been building for decades. Not based in facts? Its a fact that our entire society and economy is shut down until further notice over a virus that no one seems to really know the facts about. It is a fact that the .gov, which already has us in trillions of dollars of debt, has now halted the entire economy, and is about to hand out trillions of dollars back to us, with plans to do this on a regular basis. Its a fact, that we are about to be forced into having some sort of biometric ID system that tracks everything we do from now on. It is a fact that there is an enormous power grab in the works, and that we are being manipulated in ways we don't even know about yet.
> 
> Have some people died that were infected with this virus? Yes. That much is obvious. How many of them were already on death's door? How many of them would have died if they'd been infected with "regular" flu? How many of us have been exposed and our immune systems successfully defeated this virus as most of our immune systems do every single day with uncountable numbers of viruses and other infectious pathogens that surround us? If we tested everyone, I'll bet that by this point, almost everyone has been in con?tact with it. We have annual flus that regularly kill 10,000+ people a month in this country. C19 has killed a fraction of that, as far as we can tell from what "they" are telling us and allowing us to know. But how do any of us really know what is or isn't true anymore?
> 
> You think those of us questioning what the heck is going on are spreading fear and confusion? You weren't scared and confused about all this before you read my posts? I am terrified by what I am seeing. I have no idea how far this is going to go or how bad its going to get. I went from making six figures a year to making nothing, zero, zilch, overnight. No warning. No choice. No way around it. No end of it in sight. No recourse. No way to change it. We are seeing the end of society as we know it. I knew something big was coming, but never imagined it would be done in this way.
> 
> I agree that we need to come together and help each other. I agree that our lives may depend on it. My words on these pages are intended to do just that




Wag the dog, seems as tho every crisis is _The New World Order's_ secret plans finally coming to fruition until they don't. Maybe you're worried about the wrong _They_, and the other _They _have been profiting off you for years. _Don't forget to buy Ultra Male Vitality™ so you can continue the fight against the globalists._

There was a lot of warning. When China started shutting down cities, that was kind of a red flag. Too bad certain people in the US were saying it was just like the flu then, and some are still.


_Have some people died that were infected with this virus? Yes. That much is obvious. How many of them were already on death's door? How many of them would have died if they'd been infected with "regular" flu? How many of us have been exposed and our immune systems successfully defeated this virus as most of our immune systems do every single day with uncountable numbers of viruses and other infectious pathogens that surround us? If we tested everyone, I'll bet that by this point, almost everyone has been in con?tact with it. We have annual flus that regularly kill 10,000+ people a month in this country. C19 has killed a fraction of that, as far as we can tell from what "they" are telling us and allowing us to know. But how do any of us really know what is or isn't true anymore?_

Rhetorical questions to skirt responsibility for supporting what you say, excuse me, ask? Check.


What are your sources? Funny how someone pooh-poohs the sources of others without providing their own. Despite what you said previously, you cannot find credible or reliable sources to support anything you want.


----------



## queen koopa

Fluffy said:


> Maybe that's what you intend but when people question the 6 foot rule and say the people dying were maybe sick or died from other problems or that the the Flu would kill many more people every year that confuses people. You don't know that when this is done the Flu would of killed more people. It's too early to know much about this virus. I don't think people realize that social media and forums can have a big impact on others. Some people may get their info from social media only and read what you said and think it's no worse than Flu. Then they don't take the proper precautions to protect their selves and others. You look at how we have County Officials, State Officials, City Officials, Governors and the President all telling us what to do and it seems none are in agreement. This causes confusion and people don't know what to do or what is safe. It's the same thing with comments on here. I'm not concerned with your thoughts on the government and I'm not trying to argue with you or change your mind. I just wish everyone would be cautious follow the protocols laid out by the CDC and WHO and get through this safely.


Government officials are the dumbest citizens on in the nation. They are elected in a popularity contest based on who can turn more Americans against each other. And senile!!! Please, Hank Johnson anyone!!? Worried Guam would capsize! Sorry I had to bring that up, someone showed me that video of the congressional hearing the other day. I have no political views so I don’t care what political party a person is in, they are all the same to me. But this!!!!!?


----------



## Tom

Fluffy said:


> Last thing and crawl back under my rock and leave this thread to the regulars. We all just need to be mindful of how we are communicating things at a time like this. We need to walk a fine line between sharing info and unintentionally saying things that may scare or confuse people. Those types of comments lead people to write off all other info because they don't feel they can trust anything. That's all I'm saying. Stay safe everyone.


The WHO said in January that this thing isn't contagious and people didn't need to worry about. So did China. Listening to the WHO is one reason this thing escalated. Forgive my lack of trust.

I get what you are saying, but the fact of the matter is that, we have never seen anything like this reaction to this "new" thing. All the info is contradictory, or just plain false. Experts disagreeing with each other publicly. People being vilified for taking any position. Wild exaggerations seem to be the norm, and the damage being don to our country by the reaction to this threat, seems more and more every day to be far more damaging than the threat.

We need to go back to work. Keep practicing good hygiene and minimize risks. Stay home if you are sick and showing symptoms, but leave everyone else to do what we need to do.


----------



## Tom

jaizei said:


> What are your sources? Funny how someone pooh-poohs the sources of others without providing their own. Despite what you said previously, you cannot find credible or reliable sources to support anything you want.



I'm reading the same contradictory info on the internet as you and everyone else. Who gets to define reliable or credible? Is the NY Times "credible and reliable" in your opinion? If yes, you are either one of them, or your head is buried in the proverbial sand.


----------



## Tom

queen koopa said:


> Government officials are the dumbest citizens on in the nation. They are elected in a popularity contest based on who can turn more Americans against each other. And senile!!! Please, Hank Johnson anyone!!? Worried Guam would capsize! Sorry I had to bring that up, someone showed me that video of the congressional hearing the other day. I have no political views so I don’t care what political party a person is in, they are all the same to me. But this!!!!!?


I agree. There are stupid people everywhere, but high profile, high paid government jobs seem to really attract them. Truly a case of the inmates running the asylum.


----------



## Toddrickfl1

"There is no risk for person to person transmission"

W.H.O. - January, 2020


Tom said:


> The WHO said in January that this thing isn't contagious and people didn't need to worry about. So did China. Listening to the WHO is one reason this thing escalated. Forgive my lack of trust.
> 
> I get what you are saying, but the fact of the matter is that, we have never seen anything like this reaction to this "new" thing. All the info is contradictory, or just plain false. Experts disagreeing with each other publicly. People being vilified for taking any position. Wild exaggerations seem to be the norm, and the damage being don to our country by the reaction to this threat, seems more and more every day to be far more damaging than the threat.
> 
> We need to go back to work. Keep practicing good hygiene and minimize risks. Stay home if you are sick and showing symptoms, but leave everyone else to do what we need to do.


----------



## Markw84

Tom said:


> The WHO said in January that this thing isn't contagious and people didn't need to worry about. So did China. Listening to the WHO is one reason this thing escalated. Forgive my lack of trust.
> 
> I get what you are saying, but the fact of the matter is that, we have never seen anything like this reaction to this "new" thing. All the info is contradictory, or just plain false. Experts disagreeing with each other publicly. People being vilified for taking any position. Wild exaggerations seem to be the norm, and the damage being don to our country by the reaction to this threat, seems more and more every day to be far more damaging than the threat.
> 
> We need to go back to work. Keep practicing good hygiene and minimize risks. Stay home if you are sick and showing symptoms, but leave everyone else to do what we need to do.



OK I just have to reply...

The WHO never said this was not contagious. I think people are listening to politicians and other so called experts and believing what those people say someone else says...

Those who follow my posts must know I am a real numbers geek. I have graphs and charts for everything. I saw this freight train coming mid Feb and was alarmed. I hear what all the politicians say and take it with a huge grain of salt. I study what the epidemiologists say. I study the hard numbers. I heard the predictions from them and followed up with actual numbers. I keep graphs of real numbers from John Hopkins - a source I do trust.

I have not heard any numbers change!!!!! What was predicted is indeed happening. When the death rate was calculated by those with an agenda to discount this - at the very beginning of the pandemic in the US, we hear folks touting a death rate that is nowhere near what was predicted (which was always 1%-2%.) But those folks are the spinners as we know the incubation period is 2-14 day to even show symptoms. Then how long to let the disease run its course? Another 2-4 weeks or so. So as we jumped to try to detect early exposure by looking at the most likely routes of infection, we find infection, but before the virus has had a chance to run its course in those infected. With a geometric spread, the number of cases are going to far outpace the number of deaths as there is a natural time lag.

But now if we look at even these early numbers, we already see the calculated death rate in the US has already reached 1.5%. (Roughly 100,000 US cases and 1500 US deaths) Sure that will adjust as more testing is more available to the less symptomatic. But a freight train is coming!

Here's some simple hard numbers. You can interpret how you want.

I added the countries most in the news about what is happening. China, where it started and who got a good handle on it the most quickly so far. S Korea who seems to have been able to really "flatten the curve" proactively and we see the results. Italy where it ran wild about 2 week ahead of the US. Spain in the same boat about 1 week ahead of the US. An of course, the US.

Here's the actual numbers of cases up to Friday.




Here's the number of deaths as of Friday:




It doesn't matter how you spin things or what agenda you believe some may have. A freight train is coming!


----------



## Tom

Markw84 said:


> But now if we look at even these early numbers, we already see the calculated death rate in the US has already reached 1.5%. (Roughly 100,000 US cases and 1500 US deaths) Sure that will adjust as more testing is more available to the less symptomatic. But a freight train is coming!


I'm glad you chimed in and your comments are always welcome. Maybe you can answer my question about these stats.

I get where 1.5% comes from. Number of known cases divided by number of deaths. But this number seems useless and pointless to me. We have no idea how many "cases" exist. Testing here and in some of the other countries has been laughable. What constitutes a "case"? Is this someone clearly and obviously showing the known symptoms? Only the people actually tested with a reliable test kit, and confirmed positive? What about the theoretical millions of people who have been exposed, yet did not become infected or show any symptoms? What about the people who only showed mild symptoms, but figured it was "just the flu" and never got tested? Shouldn't all these people be included in any "death rate" stats?

Given what we know about how long this thing survives in the environment and remains contagious for days, I don't see how everyone hasn't been exposed. We are all breathing the same air and jet setting around the world. Suppose I'm wrong and only half of America has been exposed. Shouldn't our death rate be re-calculated to reflect this reality? 350,000,000 Americans x .5 = 175,000,000. 1500/175,000,000 = .00000857 for 0.000857% death rate, if we can agree on how many have had exposure, and what constitutes a "case". If we are only testing the most severe people who are clearly infected and on their way out due to other health complications, people in severe respiratory distress, and _only_ 1.5% of _those _people are dying, then 1.5% seems like a really really low number of deaths, relatively speaking. If we cannot know how many people have been exposed, and we are not testing all people who have been exposed, how can this death rate have any validity?

I understand the we have an infectious virus running its rampant course through the world. What I question is how bad is this thing, really, and are we over-reacting by literally shutting down society as we know it and stopping all income for a large percentage of the entire country? From where I am sitting, the damage from shutting everything down is going to be far worse than the damage from this virus. The ripples caused by our reaction to C19 are going to be far reaching and as difficult to quantify as the numbers of C19 cases and deaths.


----------



## Yvonne G

Well, it does say KNOWN cases. I'm sure there are many unknown cases. ANd it's really just a ball park figure anyway, isn't it?


----------



## queen koopa

Markw84 said:


> OK I just have to reply...
> 
> The WHO never said this was not contagious. I think people are listening to politicians and other so called experts and believing what those people say someone else says...
> 
> Those who follow my posts must know I am a real numbers geek. I have graphs and charts for everything. I saw this freight train coming mid Feb and was alarmed. I hear what all the politicians say and take it with a huge grain of salt. I study what the epidemiologists say. I study the hard numbers. I heard the predictions from them and followed up with actual numbers. I keep graphs of real numbers from John Hopkins - a source I do trust.
> 
> I have not heard any numbers change!!!!! What was predicted is indeed happening. When the death rate was calculated by those with an agenda to discount this - at the very beginning of the pandemic in the US, we hear folks touting a death rate that is nowhere near what was predicted (which was always 1%-2%.) But those folks are the spinners as we know the incubation period is 2-14 day to even show symptoms. Then how long to let the disease run its course? Another 2-4 weeks or so. So as we jumped to try to detect early exposure by looking at the most likely routes of infection, we find infection, but before the virus has had a chance to run its course in those infected. With a geometric spread, the number of cases are going to far outpace the number of deaths as there is a natural time lag.
> 
> But now if we look at even these early numbers, we already see the calculated death rate in the US has already reached 1.5%. (Roughly 100,000 US cases and 1500 US deaths) Sure that will adjust as more testing is more available to the less symptomatic. But a freight train is coming!
> 
> Here's some simple hard numbers. You can interpret how you want.
> 
> I added the countries most in the news about what is happening. China, where it started and who got a good handle on it the most quickly so far. S Korea who seems to have been able to really "flatten the curve" proactively and we see the results. Italy where it ran wild about 2 week ahead of the US. Spain in the same boat about 1 week ahead of the US. An of course, the US.
> 
> Here's the actual numbers of cases up to Friday.
> 
> View attachment 289191
> 
> 
> Here's the number of deaths as of Friday:
> 
> View attachment 289192
> 
> 
> It doesn't matter how you spin things or what agenda you believe some may have. A freight train is coming!


The virus was first encountered in the public eye in December 2019 right? When did America start testing? March? Well International travel more than likely brought that virus here well before March... But the cases and deaths started recording in March. And thats why cases shot up? Tell the people their flu could be Coronavirus 19, and then people who would not have went to the dr NOW went?


----------



## Tom

queen koopa said:


> The virus was first encountered in the public eye in December 2019 right? When did America start testing? March? Well International travel more than likely brought that virus here well before March... But the cases and deaths started recording in March. And thats why cases shot up? Tell the people their flu could be Coronavirus 19, and then people who would not have went to the dr NOW went?


I have several friends who had bad colds/flu with lots of coughing, fever, and chest congestion in January and February. It took two or three weeks to get over it. Some of their families and friends also got it and passed it around, just like every year. They rode on planes, went to weddings in other states, etc... Was it C19? Bad flu? I don't know. No one knows. They all recovered and no one wants to test them. None of them will be counted in these statistics.

I rode in cars with them, drove the car after they drove the car, touching all the controls, shared equipment with them, petted the same animals they'd been petting, shared meals with them, etc...

I'm not saying there isn't a problem. I'm questioning how bad is the problem, and is our reaction warranted?


----------



## Toddrickfl1

Luckily, I've been cleared by my doctor and my job has been deemed Essential so back to work for me tomorrow.


----------



## Turtulas-Len

Markw84 said:


> OK I just have to reply...
> 
> The WHO never said this was not contagious. I think people are listening to politicians and other so called experts and believing what those people say someone else says...
> 
> Those who follow my posts must know I am a real numbers geek. I have graphs and charts for everything. I saw this freight train coming mid Feb and was alarmed. I hear what all the politicians say and take it with a huge grain of salt. I study what the epidemiologists say. I study the hard numbers. I heard the predictions from them and followed up with actual numbers. I keep graphs of real numbers from John Hopkins - a source I do trust.
> 
> I have not heard any numbers change!!!!! What was predicted is indeed happening. When the death rate was calculated by those with an agenda to discount this - at the very beginning of the pandemic in the US, we hear folks touting a death rate that is nowhere near what was predicted (which was always 1%-2%.) But those folks are the spinners as we know the incubation period is 2-14 day to even show symptoms. Then how long to let the disease run its course? Another 2-4 weeks or so. So as we jumped to try to detect early exposure by looking at the most likely routes of infection, we find infection, but before the virus has had a chance to run its course in those infected. With a geometric spread, the number of cases are going to far outpace the number of deaths as there is a natural time lag.
> 
> But now if we look at even these early numbers, we already see the calculated death rate in the US has already reached 1.5%. (Roughly 100,000 US cases and 1500 US deaths) Sure that will adjust as more testing is more available to the less symptomatic. But a freight train is coming!
> 
> Here's some simple hard numbers. You can interpret how you want.
> 
> I added the countries most in the news about what is happening. China, where it started and who got a good handle on it the most quickly so far. S Korea who seems to have been able to really "flatten the curve" proactively and we see the results. Italy where it ran wild about 2 week ahead of the US. Spain in the same boat about 1 week ahead of the US. An of course, the US.
> 
> Here's the actual numbers of cases up to Friday.
> 
> View attachment 289191
> 
> 
> Here's the number of deaths as of Friday:
> 
> View attachment 289192
> 
> 
> It doesn't matter how you spin things or what agenda you believe some may have. A freight train is coming!


Maybe the WHO didn't say it wasn't contagious, but they did say it was not being transferred from person to person. China owns Ethiopia, the head guy at the WHO is Ethiopian He is doing China's bidding with misinformation to make them look good.


----------



## jaizei

Tom said:


> I'm reading the same contradictory info on the internet as you and everyone else. Who gets to define reliable or credible? Is the NY Times "credible and reliable" in your opinion? If yes, you are either one of them, or your head is buried in the proverbial sand.



And yet you don't name those sources. 

I read news aggregator sites in english, spanish, and russian looking for stories that interest me and then look for primary material from there. Meaning if I read an article about a new law or regulation, or an academic paper, I'll usually read the actual text and not just stop at the headline or article.


----------



## Tom

Markw84 said:


> OK I just have to reply...
> 
> The WHO never said this was not contagious. I think people are listening to politicians and other so called experts and believing what those people say someone else says...


I looked it up. Technically you are right. The WHO didn't make this up as an original idea and tell people. They just publicly repeated to the world what the Chinese government told them, and gave it credibility.








FLASHBACK Jan. 14: WHO Tells Everyone Don’t Worry Because China Says Coronavirus Isn’t Contagious


On January 14, the World Health Organization (WHO) tried to cam fears of a pandemic by repeating China's claim that coronavirus was not contagious among humans.




dailycaller.com


----------



## Markw84

Tom said:


> I'm glad you chimed in and your comments are always welcome. Maybe you can answer my question about these stats.
> 
> I get where 1.5% comes from. Number of known cases divided by number of deaths. But this number seems useless and pointless to me. We have no idea how many "cases" exist. Testing here and in some of the other countries has been laughable. What constitutes a "case"? Is this someone clearly and obviously showing the known symptoms? Only the people actually tested with a reliable test kit, and confirmed positive? What about the theoretical millions of people who have been exposed, yet did not become infected or show any symptoms? What about the people who only showed mild symptoms, but figured it was "just the flu" and never got tested? Shouldn't all these people be included in any "death rate" stats?
> 
> Given what we know about how long this thing survives in the environment and remains contagious for days, I don't see how everyone hasn't been exposed. We are all breathing the same air and jet setting around the world. Suppose I'm wrong and only half of America has been exposed. Shouldn't our death rate be re-calculated to reflect this reality? 350,000,000 Americans x .5 = 175,000,000. 1500/175,000,000 = .00000857 for 0.000857% death rate, if we can agree on how many have had exposure, and what constitutes a "case". If we are only testing the most severe people who are clearly infected and on their way out due to other health complications, people in severe respiratory distress, and _only_ 1.5% of _those _people are dying, then 1.5% seems like a really really low number of deaths, relatively speaking. If we cannot know how many people have been exposed, and we are not testing all people who have been exposed, how can this death rate have any validity?
> 
> I understand the we have an infectious virus running its rampant course through the world. What I question is how bad is this thing, really, and are we over-reacting by literally shutting down society as we know it and stopping all income for a large percentage of the entire country? From where I am sitting, the damage from shutting everything down is going to be far worse than the damage from this virus. The ripples caused by our reaction to C19 are going to be far reaching and as difficult to quantify as the numbers of C19 cases and deaths.



Here's where we get into conjecture and not real data and numbers. The numbers come after the fact.

We do have a pretty good understanding of how new-viruses spread once we can categorize its transmission path and contagion level. It seems we do have a handle on that now. We know C19 started in wuhan, China. Probably mid November 2019, even though the first case of "unknown" origin was only reported on Dec 1. The goal is to contain the virus to that area. China did their best to lock down that province. The action strategy from that point is whenever a new case is discovered outside that area (since they now know what they were looking for) to isolate and very importantly track the route of possible infection - how that virus got to that new area. The quote you misquoted from WHO in January, in direct reference to this plan of action is that they were not yet positive that the virus was contagious while the infected person is asymptomatic. That would make it easier to track. We very soon learned it indeed was extremely contagious at the earliest stages.

We still can track the spread, just not be complete in isolating as it would indeed spread prior to symptoms. But the "big brotheresque" concern you voice is the catch 22. Knowing as much as possible about where an infected individual has been since any POSSIBLE contraction of the virus allows the best isolation of further spread. People of known contact need to be quarantined as well. We all saw the quarantine of cruise ships here on the west coast. Extensive interviewing and tracking is done at this stage to try to isolate. Although not certainly 100% effective, it does still give a pretty clear picture of how the spread progresses, especially reviewing the spread of cases after the fact. Then you KNOW where the virus has gone.

So getting to a more direct answer to your question, I think we can safely say it is extremely unlikely the virus was in the US before mid January. It was first found outside of China on Jan 13 in Thailand, and Jan 15 in Japan. Then Jan 21 in the US. All of these cases were people who had just returned from the Wuhan, China area. So I think we have a compelling timeline of the beginnings of the spread. It is social media rumor that only the severely ill and "on their way out anyway" are tested. The criteria initially and for the past 2 months is to test anyone showing symptoms AND have a positive link to a probable contamination source. Since the prevalent flu in the US late 2019 to now has almost identical symptoms, it was just not prudent to test on symptoms alone with limited testing available. Those severely ill with other complication also could get tested as it was important to know if it was C19 as it is so far resistant to any of the treatments / drugs we use to treat other flu or corona viruses. It is also important to realize the testing is not 100% accurate. It is quite good, but its not the false positives that are the biggest concern in trying to isolate. It is the false negatives. The last thing you want when trying to isolate spread is a person with a false negative out in the community. So better to vet testing to seriously ill and those with symptoms PLUS probable source of contact. With probable source of contact, you quarantine even with a negative. Is all this perfect? Absolutely not. But it is very possibly the best we can do with our current bandwidth.

Has 1/2 of American been exposed? NO way. That will very much probably be the case by end of year. And by then that will be enough to call in a herd immunity effect - that will be a huge difference. Not now. The first community spread cases were not found until the beginning of this month in the US. If you look at the trajectory curve of cases, we are still just at the very beginning of true community spread.

Also if you look at the curve / rate of spread of both cases and deaths, you see the trend at its very beginning and indeed the death rate calculation getting higher each day, Yet testing is becomes more widespread. The post I did of the graphs above to give the 1.5% rate has changed already. I see numbers as of today (2 days later) now at 135,500 cases and 2384 deaths in the US as of today. That's now a 1.76% death rate. I'm not saying the death rate will follow that trend forever. IT will get worse for a while until the number of cases that has had time for the illness run its course catches up with the number of newly infected. It will level off and then drop as more and more testing is available. Eventually we can then even apply numbers like I see often used in "regular" flu calculations, where with this type virus we would probably assume for every "known" illness case there is 2.6 asymptomatic cases.

Will this be as bad as the effects of our shelter in place? None of us have seen something like this in our lifetime. The closest thing we can look at is the "Spanish Flu" pandemic in 1918. That killed between 20 million and 50 million people worldwide. 675,000 people in the US died. With a population at that time of 104 million that is a 0.67% death rate on total population, not infected!

We must flatten the curve of how this is growing. The only practical way to do that is take away the "food" for the virus. That is new people who have never been exposed to this type virus.


----------



## Tom

jaizei said:


> And yet you don't name those sources.
> 
> I read news aggregator sites in english, spanish, and russian looking for stories that interest me and then look for primary material from there. Meaning if I read an article about a new law or regulation, or an academic paper, I'll usually read the actual text and not just stop at the headline or article.


And? So? Your are still reading stuffed penned or typed by a person, just as I'm typing this. Anyone can put any spin on it they want, even going so far as to lie, falsify, exaggerate, or omit inconvenient data.

You pick any subject you want and you can find 10 "sources" to support or dismiss any premise. People on each side will vehemently argue how the other side's statistics and methods are false and flawed. I could spend hours searching out whatever citations I want. You then, could spend hours searching out and citing sources to refute what my sources said. What's the point? Its nothing more than a time wasting pissing contest to test who spends more time and effort looking to discredit the other.

I'm having a conversation about MY opinions and what I see. If you want to have a conversation about the opinions and views your information sources are, well, that is a different conversation. My opinions and views are based on the information I see and read, and yours are based on yours. Where does that get us? Why don't you tell us what YOU think instead of always citing what other people think. I know... Its a novel concept. Doesn't seem to be in your wheelhouse based on past experience. You should give a try. Of course, someone just like you might come along with their citations and try to make you and your opinion look stupid. Its a risk to be sure.

You've never liked the way I do "business". You cut apart and try tear it down whenever the mood strikes you. Yet you contribute very little to the discussion, make few assertions yourself, and do little to help anyone with their tortoises here. You are a critic. You are not a producer of helpful info. You don't make the movies. You spend your time, effort, and considerable research skills telling everyone else what's wrong with the movies. You use your research skills to refute, but not to help.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

I prefer to not take things to heart.
My mother is in a nursing home in Albany Georgia. Wynfeild Park. She has very limited breathing and most days can only talk in whispers. If at all.
Albany Georgia is a small town in south western Georgia.
The primary hospital is Phoebe. Phoebe is absolutely overrun with COVID-19 cases and there is now 1 case in my mothers nursing home. The nursing home is next door to the hospital.
The situation is so critical that it made national news (on the Rachel Maddow show.)
So, know that while I'm trying to make jokes and keep things light, some of us ARE already in this. It's why I mentioned last week that I had a fever. I wasn't going to go any further.
I wasn't going to mention this. But I thought I'd point out that we are all reacting in our own way. And this is no where near over.
I chose to remain calm.
All of the facts aren't in yet. And some of the facts are not facts at all.
I want this post to reflect what the situation is in your part of the country. Or in your country.
There will be time to hurl insults afterwards.


----------



## Tom

Markw84 said:


> Here's where we get into conjecture and not real data and numbers. The numbers come after the fact.
> 
> We do have a pretty good understanding of how new-viruses spread once we can categorize its transmission path and contagion level. It seems we do have a handle on that now. We know C19 started in wuhan, China. Probably mid November 2019, even though the first case of "unknown" origin was only reported on Dec 1. The goal is to contain the virus to that area. China did their best to lock down that province. The action strategy from that point is whenever a new case is discovered outside that area (since they now know what they were looking for) to isolate and very importantly track the route of possible infection - how that virus got to that new area. The quote you misquoted from WHO in January, in direct reference to this plan of action is that they were not yet positive that the virus was contagious while the infected person is asymptomatic. That would make it easier to track. We very soon learned it indeed was extremely contagious at the earliest stages.
> 
> We still can track the spread, just not be complete in isolating as it would indeed spread prior to symptoms. But the "big brotheresque" concern you voice is the catch 22. Knowing as much as possible about where an infected individual has been since any POSSIBLE contraction of the virus allows the best isolation of further spread. People of known contact need to be quarantined as well. We all saw the quarantine of cruise ships here on the west coast. Extensive interviewing and tracking is done at this stage to try to isolate. Although not certainly 100% effective, it does still give a pretty clear picture of how the spread progresses, especially reviewing the spread of cases after the fact. Then you KNOW where the virus has gone.
> 
> So getting to a more direct answer to your question, I think we can safely say it is extremely unlikely the virus was in the US before mid January. It was first found outside of China on Jan 13 in Thailand, and Jan 15 in Japan. Then Jan 21 in the US. All of these cases were people who had just returned from the Wuhan, China area. So I think we have a compelling timeline of the beginnings of the spread. It is social media rumor that only the severely ill and "on their way out anyway" are tested. The criteria initially and for the past 2 months is to test anyone showing symptoms AND have a positive link to a probable contamination source. Since the prevalent flu in the US late 2019 to now has almost identical symptoms, it was just not prudent to test on symptoms alone with limited testing available. Those severely ill with other complication also could get tested as it was important to know if it was C19 as it is so far resistant to any of the treatments / drugs we use to treat other flu or corona viruses. It is also important to realize the testing is not 100% accurate. It is quite good, but its not the false positives that are the biggest concern in trying to isolate. It is the false negatives. The last thing you want when trying to isolate spread is a person with a false negative out in the community. So better to vet testing to seriously ill and those with symptoms PLUS probable source of contact. With probable source of contact, you quarantine even with a negative. Is all this perfect? Absolutely not. But it is very possibly the best we can do with our current bandwidth.
> 
> Has 1/2 of American been exposed? NO way. That will very much probably be the case by end of year. And by then that will be enough to call in a herd immunity effect - that will be a huge difference. Not now. The first community spread cases were not found until the beginning of this month in the US. If you look at the trajectory curve of cases, we are still just at the very beginning of true community spread.
> 
> Also if you look at the curve / rate of spread of both cases and deaths, you see the trend at its very beginning and indeed the death rate calculation getting higher each day, Yet testing is becomes more widespread. The post I did of the graphs above to give the 1.5% rate has changed already. I see numbers as of today (2 days later) now at 135,500 cases and 2384 deaths in the US as of today. That's now a 1.76% death rate. I'm not saying the death rate will follow that trend forever. IT will get worse for a while until the number of cases that has had time for the illness run its course catches up with the number of newly infected. It will level off and then drop as more and more testing is available. Eventually we can then even apply numbers like I see often used in "regular" flu calculations, where with this type virus we would probably assume for every "known" illness case there is 2.6 asymptomatic cases.
> 
> Will this be as bad as the effects of our shelter in place? None of us have seen something like this in our lifetime. The closest thing we can look at is the "Spanish Flu" pandemic in 1918. That killed between 20 million and 50 million people worldwide. 675,000 people in the US died. With a population at that time of 104 million that is a 0.67% death rate on total population, not infected!
> 
> We must flatten the curve of how this is growing. The only practical way to do that is take away the "food" for the virus. That is new people who have never been exposed to this type virus.


I'm going to stew on the bulk of your post and re-read it a couple of times before responding, but I did not misquote The WHO. You can read their direct quote from mid January in the link I provided.

I'm going to the ranch to feed some tortoises! And maybe ride some dirt bikes too. Alone. Away from any other people.


----------



## Tom

ZEROPILOT said:


> I prefer to not take things to heart.
> My mother is in a nursing home in Albany Georgia. Wynfeild Park. She has very limited breathing and most days can only talk in whispers. If at all.
> Albany Georgia is a small town in south western Georgia.
> The primary hospital is Phoebe. Phoebe is absolutely overrun with COVID-19 cases and there is now 1 case in my mothers nursing home. The nursing home is next door to the hospital.
> The situation is so critical that it made national news (on the Rachel Maddow show.)
> So, know that while I'm trying to make jokes and keep things light, some of us ARE already in this. It's why I mentioned last week that I had a fever. I wasn't going to go any further.
> I wasn't going to mention this. But I thought I'd point out that we are all reacting in our own way. And this is no where near over.
> I chose to remain calm.
> All of the facts aren't in yet. And some of the facts are not facts at all.
> I want this post to reflect what the situation is in your part of the country. Or in your country.
> There will be time to hurl insults afterwards.


Point taken sir. I hear you. We've all got a dog in this fight. Well.. I think most of us do. A very close family friend was out here visiting and she flew home about three weeks ago. The CDC told her she picked up the virus on her flight home. She's a nurse. She shared her opinions with her colleagues and they refused to test her. They swabbed her for the flu twice and it was negative both times. They finally tested her for C19 and told her it would take 1-4 days for the result. Then the CDC called her and told her 9-14 days was a more realistic timeframe for test results, but that they were pretty sure she had it and pretty sure where she got it. She's already recovering and still doesn't have the results. We've been having daily FaceTime calls with her. She seems to be recovering just fine now.

I'd like to know if everyone on that flight got it, or not.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

The number of "known" cases is simply unknown. So the number of deaths per the number of infected is also unknown.
Places where there are known cases of the virus are just now able to even start testing.
So far, the information given to us by our leaders has been very optimistic this whole time and I believe little of it.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Tom said:


> Point taken sir. I hear you. We've all got a dog in this fight. Well.. I think most of us do. A very close family friend was out here visiting and she flew home about three weeks ago. The CDC told her she picked up the virus on her flight home. She's a nurse. She shared her opinions with her colleagues and they refused to test her. They swabbed her for the flu twice and it was negative both times. They finally tested her for C19 and told her it would take 1-4 days for the result. Then the CDC called her and told her 9-14 days was a more realistic timeframe for test results, but that they were pretty sure she had it and pretty sure where she got it. She's already recovering and still doesn't have the results. We've been having daily FaceTime calls with her. She seems to be recovering just fine now.
> 
> I'd like to know if everyone on that flight got it, or not.


Yes.
But how the Hell would anyone ever know?


----------



## mark1

Markw84 said:


> We know C19 started in wuhan, China. Probably mid November 2019, even though the first case of "unknown" origin was only reported on Dec 1. The goal is to contain the virus to that area. China did their best to lock down that province.



not sure china's best effort was actually their best effort ...……… on I believe January 18th they celebrated the lunar new year in Wuhan , 40,000 people gathered for a pot luck banquet ……., before they shut down the city on jan 23rd it is estimated 5 million people had come and went from the city …….


----------



## ZEROPILOT

mark1 said:


> not sure china's best effort was actually their best effort ...……… on I believe January 18th they celebrated the lunar new year in Wuhan , 40,000 people gathered for a pot luck banquet ……., before they shut down the city on jan 23rd it is estimated 5 million people had come and went from the city …….


I'm not sure that anyone would call CHINA the nation of responsible actions.
...And the fact that they can manipulate the reality of everything that they share with the world.


----------



## Tom

The formative years of my childhood were in the 80's and that is still the primary music that I listen to. I've had about a dozen friends send me this:


----------



## Tom

ZEROPILOT said:


> Yes.
> But how the Hell would anyone ever know?


Know what? Where she got it, or if anyone else on the flight got it?

That has been the whole crux of my point on this thread. The CDC tracked her every movement and knew details of what she'd been doing the last few weeks that no one who wasn't there could know. She hadn't told anyone some of the details they knew. I'm sure they have the same intel on everyone on that flight. They knew when she had been at my house on the other side of the country and for how long. They weren't concerned about me and my family because they know where she picked it up, and it was after she left here.

Thanks to Pres. Bush for the Patriot Act!


----------



## Maro2Bear

mark1 said:


> not sure china's best effort was actually their best effort ...……… on I believe January 18th they celebrated the lunar new year in Wuhan , 40,000 people gathered for a pot luck banquet ……., before they shut down the city on jan 23rd it is estimated 5 million people had come and went from the city …….



Yikes!


----------



## Tom

mark1 said:


> not sure china's best effort was actually their best effort ...……… on I believe January 18th they celebrated the lunar new year in Wuhan , 40,000 people gathered for a pot luck banquet ……., before they shut down the city on jan 23rd it is estimated 5 million people had come and went from the city …….


I saw this too, and this is one of the many things that makes me wonder how many people all over the world have been exposed. Actually, a better question might be how many people world wide have NOT been exposed. Probably an easier number to count.

5 million people in and out of ground zero over 6 weeks after this bug is known to have been out and circulating around the population. I'm pretty certain that a large number of those people brought some hitchhikers home with them.


----------



## Markw84

mark1 said:


> not sure china's best effort was actually their best effort ...……… on I believe January 18th they celebrated the lunar new year in Wuhan , 40,000 people gathered for a pot luck banquet ……., before they shut down the city on jan 23rd it is estimated 5 million people had come and went from the city …….


We can also point to New Orleans on Feb 25th.


----------



## Maro2Bear

Tom said:


> Know what? Where she got it, or if anyone else on the flight got it?
> 
> That has been the whole crux of my point on this thread. The CDC tracked her every movement and knew details of what she'd been doing the last few weeks that no one who wasn't there could know. She hadn't told anyone some of the details they knew. I'm sure they have the same intel on everyone on that flight. They knew when she had been at my house on the other side of the country and for how long. They weren't concerned about me and my family because they know where she picked it up, and it was after she left here.
> 
> Thanks to Pres. Bush for the Patriot Act!



It’s easy to track cell phone locations. No real trick. Metadata associated with your phone is easily tracked, processed and geolocated to the closest cell tower. No need for any interception of voice records.


----------



## Fluffy

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1242834999683866624








Dr. Fauci debunks coronavirus misinformation on a video chat with Trevor Noah


Sorting fact from fiction.




mashable.com


----------



## Blackdog1714

Aluminum foil hat and popcorn time! I refuse to watch the “news”! The hyping is out off hand and it is the anonymous internet that is fueling it! There is 10 times of fake news to every real bit of news that comes out! I get a new COVID-19 update everyday from work and about the only changes are the numbers of the cases and deaths. Yes it is a nasty thing, but what about all the things we have already survived- SARS, MERSA, hell I know a homeless guy that has a medically resistant cellulitis that a doc published a paper on years ago! What about drunk drivers or drivers with there nose in their phone- they kill more every year and the cellphone thing will only get worse!


----------



## Fluffy

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1243281598037913600


----------



## mark1

Markw84 said:


> We can also point to New Orleans on Feb 25th.



I personally don't see the parallel , new orleans didn't infect the world with a virus no one ever seen before , they were the recipient .......... i believe the cdc tried to send people into china end of january beginning february , china didn't allow it ............... personally i doubt any information coming out of china ......


----------



## Cathie G

Tom said:


> I saw this too, and this is one of the many things that makes me wonder how many people all over the world have been exposed. Actually, a better question might be how many people world wide have NOT been exposed. Probably an easier number to count.
> 
> 5 million people in and out of ground zero over 6 weeks after this bug is known to have been out and circulating around the population. I'm pretty certain that a large number of those people brought some hitchhikers home with them.


I'm not certain of the December 2019 date as the earliest time it was traced to either. I was told by a healthcare tech, that critical care people (like me) were testing negative for the flue back in November. Even though they had flue symptoms. I'm a little nobody. She had no reason to lie to me...and is not a dummy either.


----------



## ManAlive85

I never cease to be amazed by the degree of paranoia that is shared by some members of this forum, particularly around this subject. As responsible adults, of course we should distrust the media and be cynical of our governments but the idea that this is some kind of orchestrated global conspiracy is simply absurd.

I’m a Brit and often feel like something of an outsider looking in during these discussions. I haven’t been closely following what’s going on in the US other than the headline stats and the press statements from your great leader. From what I’ve seen though, it’s pretty clear that tangerine chump has got no better idea what his government should be doing right now than the leader of any other country in the world. Broadly speaking, authorities, just like us, are blindly scrambling to take what they hope will be the least damaging course of action in an unprecedented time of global crisis and whilst I would be shocked if some governments didn’t do their best to find a way to make the chaos work to their advantage where they can, I find the assertion that this is in some way a calculated overreaction to a minor health scare frankly ludicrous.

I completely understand that people are scared and angry about loosing their income and their liberties but I simply can’t see what angle you’d have to approach this from to see how a group or administration might be benefitting from this scenario, unless they own shares in a hand sanitiser factory. I’m no economist but surely the fiscal carnage caused by these indefinite shutdowns far, far exceed the benefit to any government from enacting these measures?

So many of the statistics, particularly death rates, are at this stage broadly meaningless and will remain so for weeks until this crisis at least begins to stabilise. However those who assert that COVID-19 is no more serious than seasonal flu are misguided, it is not only significantly more contagious, it has proven to be many times more deadly, in particular amongst the elderly. Seasonal flu doesn’t decimate entire care homes, for example, as has been reported in Spain and Italy. Nor does it cause hospitals to be so overwhelmed with critically ill patients that people have to be airlifted en masse to neighbouring countries for emergency treatment. And with regard to whether a patient dies from COVID-19 or pneumonia or apparently unrelated seasonal flu, once people are dying because they can’t get a hospital bed due to healthcare systems being overrun, it doesn’t matter whether the cause of death is appendicitis, it’s ultimately an extra death caused by the effects of the coronavirus.

Here in London we are at the start of what will be a steep upswing in cases and hospitals are now reaching maximum capacity for critical care patients. Fatalities are beginning to grow noticeably and are in line with the predicted trend of doubling every 2-3 days. Only time will tell but, from what I’ve seen, I suspect the US is in a very similar position. I think the suggestion that most people have already been exposed to the illness is extraordinarily optimistic and that the disease still has many more weeks or months of chaos to wreak until 50-60% of the population have been infected and it becomes safe for normal activities to resume.

There is no way of knowing how this crisis will come to pass but if there is a chance that we can save any lives by just staying indoors it would take a very strong argument to convince me that’s not a worthwhile sacrifice.


----------



## Cathie G

ZEROPILOT said:


> I prefer to not take things to heart.
> My mother is in a nursing home in Albany Georgia. Wynfeild Park. She has very limited breathing and most days can only talk in whispers. If at all.
> Albany Georgia is a small town in south western Georgia.
> The primary hospital is Phoebe. Phoebe is absolutely overrun with COVID-19 cases and there is now 1 case in my mothers nursing home. The nursing home is next door to the hospital.
> The situation is so critical that it made national news (on the Rachel Maddow show.)
> So, know that while I'm trying to make jokes and keep things light, some of us ARE already in this. It's why I mentioned last week that I had a fever. I wasn't going to go any further.
> I wasn't going to mention this. But I thought I'd point out that we are all reacting in our own way. And this is no where near over.
> I chose to remain calm.
> All of the facts aren't in yet. And some of the facts are not facts at all.
> I want this post to reflect what the situation is in your part of the country. Or in your country.
> There will be time to hurl insults afterwards.


I'll be praying for your little mom and you and family...in the meantime.


----------



## EllieMay

Markw84 said:


> We can also point to New Orleans on Feb 25th.


Gov Abbott passed something today that makes it illegal to drive into Texas from Louisiana....


----------



## ZEROPILOT

ManAlive85 said:


> I never cease to be amazed by the degree of paranoia that is shared by some members of this forum, particularly around this subject. As responsible adults, of course we should distrust the media and be cynical of our governments but the idea that this is some kind of orchestrated global conspiracy is simply absurd.
> 
> I’m a Brit and often feel like something of an outsider looking in during these discussions. I haven’t been closely following what’s going on in the US other than the headline stats and the press statements from your great leader. From what I’ve seen though, it’s pretty clear that tangerine chump has got no better idea what his government should be doing right now than the leader of any other country in the world. Broadly speaking, authorities, just like us, are blindly scrambling to take what they hope will be the least damaging course of action in an unprecedented time of global crisis and whilst I would be shocked if some governments didn’t do their best to find a way to make the chaos work to their advantage where they can, I find the assertion that this is in some way a calculated overreaction to a minor health scare frankly ludicrous.
> 
> I completely understand that people are scared and angry about loosing their income and their liberties but I simply can’t see what angle you’d have to approach this from to see how a group or administration might be benefitting from this scenario, unless they own shares in a hand sanitiser factory. I’m no economist but surely the fiscal carnage caused by these indefinite shutdowns far, far exceed the benefit to any government from enacting these measures?
> 
> So many of the statistics, particularly death rates, are at this stage broadly meaningless and will remain so for weeks until this crisis at least begins to stabilise. However those who assert that COVID-19 is no more serious than seasonal flu are misguided, it is not only significantly more contagious, it has proven to be many times more deadly, in particular amongst the elderly. Seasonal flu doesn’t decimate entire care homes, for example, as has been reported in Spain and Italy. Nor does it cause hospitals to be so overwhelmed with critically ill patients that people have to be airlifted en masse to neighbouring countries for emergency treatment. And with regard to whether a patient dies from COVID-19 or pneumonia or apparently unrelated seasonal flu, once people are dying because they can’t get a hospital bed due to healthcare systems being overrun, it doesn’t matter whether the cause of death is appendicitis, it’s ultimately an extra death caused by the effects of the coronavirus.
> 
> Here in London we are at the start of what will be a steep upswing in cases and hospitals are now reaching maximum capacity for critical care patients. Fatalities are beginning to grow noticeably and are in line with the predicted trend of doubling every 2-3 days. Only time will tell but, from what I’ve seen, I suspect the US is in a very similar position. I think the suggestion that most people have already been exposed to the illness is extraordinarily optimistic and that the disease still has many more weeks or months of chaos to wreak until 50-60% of the population have been infected and it becomes safe for normal activities to resume.
> 
> There is no way of knowing how this crisis will come to pass but if there is a chance that we can save any lives by just staying indoors it would take a very strong argument to convince me that’s not a worthwhile sacrifice.


As far as I'm concerned, your views are perfectly American. And very much inline with my own.
How this effects you is how it is affecting us overseas.
I also respect the views of others. Because the whole truth hasn't presented itself yet.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Cathie G said:


> I'll be praying for your little mom and you and family...in the meantime.


Thank you.
The wife and I are in relatively good health and have already gone through recent flu like symptoms.
Mom needs prayers.


----------



## Turtulas-Len

With a vaccine available 10s of thousands of people die here in the States from the flu each year. How many would die if there was no vaccine would the hospitals be over run with sick people? I think so. When someone develops a good safe vaccine this may be as common as the flu as we refer to it today," just the flu" even though each year it may be a different strain of THE FLU. Each year I get what is refereed to as the hi-test flu shot because of my age, so maybe they will come up with a hi-test covid19 vaccine. for older people, Hopefully soon. Stay Safe and don't Panic.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Turtulas-Len said:


> With a vaccine available 10s of thousands of people die here in the States from the flu each year. How many would die if there was no vaccine would the hospitals be over run with sick people? I think so. When someone develops a good safe vaccine this may be as common as the flu as we refer to it today," just the flu" even though each year it may be a different strain of THE FLU. Each year I get what is refereed to as the hi-test flu shot because of my age, so maybe they will come up with a hi-test covid19 vaccine. for older people, Hopefully soon. Stay Safe and don't Panic.


Apparently there are about 5 strains of this family of virus in circulation right now. But most are not either as contagious or as lethal.


----------



## Billna the 2

Yeah it’s getting crazy alittle here I’m SC


----------



## Gijoux

Markw84 said:


> I really have trouble following some of the more recent posts here and the apparent trend to discount this issue. I just this evening got a group message from a very good friend of mine that I used to do semimars and public speaking with. This is a very strong, active individual. Was one of the top female softball players in the world that did world tours and taught olympic players. Thought it may provide a needed perspective:
> 
> _Good people. I wanted to tell you that Rosemary and I have tested positive for COVID-19. We believe we were infected on Friday 13. I started having serious symptoms a week ago. We were lucky enough to get tested pretty quickly, and it became official Wednesday. You should know that these symptoms are no joke. I have never been so sick in my life, and I’ve had a few tangles with other illnesses. COVID 19 is overwhelming.
> I thought I was being careful. I’m not a risk-taker with my health, but I got it anyway. I am right in the middle of this thing and weeks and months ahead of almost everyone I know. I want you all to understand that it’s worse than you think. Way worse.
> When you have a choice between your normal habits and what you know to be safer habits, I don’t want you to think twice. Please err on the side of health, yours and the other people’s you come into contact with. If I knew two weeks ago what I know now, I wouldn’t have left our home, for however long it takes.
> I can’t do much about my situation now, I’ve got to ride this thing out and hope for the best. But there’s lots you can do. If this message can make you re-think how seriously you’re taking COVID-19, I will feel like my message is successful .....even while I’m lying here in my bed. I’m encouraging you and cheering you on to be smart, for yourself and the rest of us. I don’t want to see any more of my friends getting sick.
> Rosemary S Harris symptoms are gone...thank goodness. If you see her walking our dogs, please avoid her and do not pet our dog. We are trying to stay away from them but they aren’t having it and we are worried it’s on their fur.
> This will not be over by Easter. Cuomo seems to be the truth teller right now. Over 600 are waiting for tests from St. Francis. I know our city is doing all we can but please do your part. I am in awe of our first responders. Truly.
> I will post again in a few days. Please don’t call us. Our phones are off. We don’t need one thing.
> Please stay safe. Much love to all._



Mark I am so sorry to hear about your friends getting sick. I have also had family and friends get sick during the last few weeks. I myself have health issues which makes me very vulnerable to any viral infection. I have to take precautions always. Anyway, there is some good news as Dr. Fauci has made a statement:

Dr. Anthony Fauci, the US front man for managing the "pandemic," has just written an article that ought to be titled: I WAS WRONG AND THIS IS MY CONFESSION.

Fauci, New England Journal of Medicine, March 26, _"Covid-19 -- Navigating the Uncharted"_:

"If one assumes that the number of asymptomatic or minimally symptomatic cases is several times as high as the number of reported cases, the case fatality rate may be considerably less than 1%. This suggests that the overall clinical consequences of Covid-19 may ultimately be more akin to those of a severe seasonal influenza (which has a case fatality rate of approximately 0.1%) or a pandemic influenza (similar to those in 1957 and 1968)..."

In case there is any doubt, those "pandemic influenza seasons" of 1957 and 1968 did NOT result in any lockdowns. People went outdoors. They mingled. They sat in stadiums. They went to their jobs.

SO TURN THE ECONOMY BACK ON NOW. End the insanity.

Unfortunately, no surprise, the major media are still highlighting fear, so it's up to people to spread this message in any and every way they can: TIME TO GO BACK TO WORK. TURN ON THE ECONOMY.

When the man in charge of an unprecedented global operation says the product he was selling was defective, when he admits the whole basis for it was over-promoted...that is gigantic. Don't expect Fauci to apologize abjectly and lie down in the street and let a steamroller flatten him. Understand? This is as good as it'll get.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

The fact remains that our hospital systems are already overloaded and out of supplies, room and staff.
Having less responsible activity would surely equal more infected people and for a more prolonged period of time and with many more deaths.
So while it's TRUE that we can't know what the death rate is because we still don't know the number of the truly, currently infected....We DO know that we are ALREADY unable to deal with the quantity of humans that already require hospitalization.
People that are actually sick and are actually dying have already outnumbered what we as a nation are able to handle. Whatever "percentage" that number ends up being. I think that would be pretty irrelevant if one of them ended up being you or one of your loved ones. And you got infected and died directly because some irresponsible person thought it was no big deal.
The number of Americans already requiring hospitalization has already brought us to our limits. The known quantity is already too many. And no one is arguing that this won't get much larger before it slows down.
There's a bigger picture here.


----------



## Gijoux

Markw84 said:


> Here's where we get into conjecture and not real data and numbers. The numbers come after the fact.
> 
> We do have a pretty good understanding of how new-viruses spread once we can categorize its transmission path and contagion level. It seems we do have a handle on that now. We know C19 started in wuhan, China. Probably mid November 2019, even though the first case of "unknown" origin was only reported on Dec 1. The goal is to contain the virus to that area. China did their best to lock down that province. The action strategy from that point is whenever a new case is discovered outside that area (since they now know what they were looking for) to isolate and very importantly track the route of possible infection - how that virus got to that new area. The quote you misquoted from WHO in January, in direct reference to this plan of action is that they were not yet positive that the virus was contagious while the infected person is asymptomatic. That would make it easier to track. We very soon learned it indeed was extremely contagious at the earliest stages.
> 
> We still can track the spread, just not be complete in isolating as it would indeed spread prior to symptoms. But the "big brotheresque" concern you voice is the catch 22. Knowing as much as possible about where an infected individual has been since any POSSIBLE contraction of the virus allows the best isolation of further spread. People of known contact need to be quarantined as well. We all saw the quarantine of cruise ships here on the west coast. Extensive interviewing and tracking is done at this stage to try to isolate. Although not certainly 100% effective, it does still give a pretty clear picture of how the spread progresses, especially reviewing the spread of cases after the fact. Then you KNOW where the virus has gone.
> 
> So getting to a more direct answer to your question, I think we can safely say it is extremely unlikely the virus was in the US before mid January. It was first found outside of China on Jan 13 in Thailand, and Jan 15 in Japan. Then Jan 21 in the US. All of these cases were people who had just returned from the Wuhan, China area. So I think we have a compelling timeline of the beginnings of the spread. It is social media rumor that only the severely ill and "on their way out anyway" are tested. The criteria initially and for the past 2 months is to test anyone showing symptoms AND have a positive link to a probable contamination source. Since the prevalent flu in the US late 2019 to now has almost identical symptoms, it was just not prudent to test on symptoms alone with limited testing available. Those severely ill with other complication also could get tested as it was important to know if it was C19 as it is so far resistant to any of the treatments / drugs we use to treat other flu or corona viruses. It is also important to realize the testing is not 100% accurate. It is quite good, but its not the false positives that are the biggest concern in trying to isolate. It is the false negatives. The last thing you want when trying to isolate spread is a person with a false negative out in the community. So better to vet testing to seriously ill and those with symptoms PLUS probable source of contact. With probable source of contact, you quarantine even with a negative. Is all this perfect? Absolutely not. But it is very possibly the best we can do with our current bandwidth.
> 
> Has 1/2 of American been exposed? NO way. That will very much probably be the case by end of year. And by then that will be enough to call in a herd immunity effect - that will be a huge difference. Not now. The first community spread cases were not found until the beginning of this month in the US. If you look at the trajectory curve of cases, we are still just at the very beginning of true community spread.
> 
> Also if you look at the curve / rate of spread of both cases and deaths, you see the trend at its very beginning and indeed the death rate calculation getting higher each day, Yet testing is becomes more widespread. The post I did of the graphs above to give the 1.5% rate has changed already. I see numbers as of today (2 days later) now at 135,500 cases and 2384 deaths in the US as of today. That's now a 1.76% death rate. I'm not saying the death rate will follow that trend forever. IT will get worse for a while until the number of cases that has had time for the illness run its course catches up with the number of newly infected. It will level off and then drop as more and more testing is available. Eventually we can then even apply numbers like I see often used in "regular" flu calculations, where with this type virus we would probably assume for every "known" illness case there is 2.6 asymptomatic cases.
> 
> Will this be as bad as the effects of our shelter in place? None of us have seen something like this in our lifetime. The closest thing we can look at is the "Spanish Flu" pandemic in 1918. That killed between 20 million and 50 million people worldwide. 675,000 people in the US died. With a population at that time of 104 million that is a 0.67% death rate on total population, not infected!
> 
> We must flatten the curve of how this is growing. The only practical way to do that is take away the "food" for the virus. That is new people who have never been exposed to this type virus.



@Fluffy @Tom @jaizei

With the first cases of C-19 in November 2019 and China making no mention of it until Dec. 31, 2019, allowed many thousands of travelers from Wuhan to the rest of the world to spread C-19. I work closely with UCR and they hosted many a student during that time including much travel of Chinese students/faculty and US students/faculty, that was not halted until late February 2020. This is not the only University with programs abroad. Northern Italy has a huge Chinese population that also continued to travel between countries for far longer. It is quite feasible to have had early exposures here in our country from Nov/Dec and of course we were not going to get a Dx of C-19 if we were not testing for it. The first positive case outside of China was January only because nobody was testing for it before that date. You have to test for it directly and we didn't have any tests available until quite recently. We continue to have a shortage of dependable tests, so I assure you these tests are reserved for the very sick. You are wrong about it being a "social media" rumor about only the very ill being tested, because I personally have treated many sick patients who were not provided testing even though they were exhibiting all the symptoms. I couldn't order the tests for these patients, because there weren't any tests available. The stats would be very different if we had been testing earlier and testing more people. The curve wouldn't look anything like it does now if more testing had been done earlier. I would also like to point out that last I looked we had only 25,000 deaths THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE WORLD at the supposed peak of this pandemic, of the supposed worst highly contagious disease that has been predicted to be 2.2 million deaths. A whole lot of people better die real soon for this prediction to come to fruition. Some of us have seen something like this with the Polio outbreaks during the 1950's. Even then the country didn't get shut down. By the time they got a vaccine available, herd immunity had already happened and the number of cases were falling rapidly. In the end the vaccine had to be changed to Sabin's killed vaccine, because the vaccine Salk rushed to production was CAUSING more POLIO cases than the wild disease. 

Historically throughout the world, the chaos that a situation like this creates is exactly when takeovers occur. Breaking the country financially sets up a perfect opportunity for "Big Brother/Pharma" to take over every aspect of our lives. People will soon be begging the government to "save" them and Socialism will be here to stay. Over 3 million people have had to apply for unemployment already and more will come. How long will a check for $1200 last. We will have to pay it back anyway in the form of taxes. All the unemployment will have to be paid back in the form of taxes. Everything is going to cost more in the form of taxes...WAKE UP AMERICA!!


----------



## Gijoux

ZEROPILOT said:


> I hope you don't mind @Gijoux that I've requested that 3 of the so far 4 duplicate posts be removed.


NO PROBLEM ZEROPILOT, just wanted to make sure the word, direct from the horse's mouth, right out of a very prestigious medical journal, gets read.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Gijoux said:


> With the first cases of C-19 in November 2019 and China making no mention of it until Dec. 31, 2019, allowed many thousands of travelers from Wuhan to the rest of the world to spread C-19. I work closely with UCR and they hosted many a student during that time including much travel of Chinese students/faculty and US students/faculty, that was not halted until late February 2020. This is not the only University with programs abroad. Northern Italy has a huge Chinese population that also continued to travel between countries for far longer. It is quite feasible to have had early exposures here in our country from Nov/Dec and of course we were not going to get a Dx of C-19 if we were not testing for it. The first positive case outside of China was January only because nobody was testing for it before that date. You have to test for it directly and we didn't have any tests available until quite recently. We continue to have a shortage of dependable tests, so I assure you these tests are reserved for the very sick. You are wrong about it being a "social media" rumor about only the very ill being tested, because I personally have treated many sick patients who were not provided testing even though they were exhibiting all the symptoms. I couldn't order the tests for these patients, because there weren't any tests available. The stats would be very different if we had been testing earlier and testing more people. The curve wouldn't look anything like it does now if more testing had been done earlier. I would also like to point out that last I looked we had only 25,000 deaths THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE WORLD at the supposed peak of this pandemic, of the supposed worst highly contagious disease that has been predicted to be 2.2 million deaths. A whole lot of people better die real soon for this prediction to come to fruition. Some of us have seen something like this with the Polio outbreaks during the 1950's. Even then the country didn't get shut down. By the time they got a vaccine available, herd immunity had already happened and the number of cases were falling rapidly. In the end the vaccine had to be changed to Sabin's killed vaccine, because the vaccine Salk rushed to production was CAUSING more POLIO cases than the wild disease.
> 
> Historically throughout the world, the chaos that a situation like this creates is exactly when takeovers occur. Breaking the country financially sets up a perfect opportunity for "Big Brother/Pharma" to take over every aspect of our lives. People will soon be begging the government to "save" them and Socialism will be here to stay. Over 3 million people have had to apply for unemployment already and more will come. How long will a check for $1200 last. We will have to pay it back anyway in the form of taxes. All the unemployment will have to be paid back in the form of taxes. Everything is going to cost more in the form of taxes...WAKE UP AMERICA!!


The bailout will in fact need to be paid back and it will take a long time. And I believe that this is just phase one of it.


----------



## jaizei

Tom said:


> And? So? Your are still reading stuffed penned or typed by a person, just as I'm typing this. Anyone can put any spin on it they want, even going so far as to lie, falsify, exaggerate, or omit inconvenient data.
> 
> You pick any subject you want and you can find 10 "sources" to support or dismiss any premise. People on each side will vehemently argue how the other side's statistics and methods are false and flawed. I could spend hours searching out whatever citations I want. You then, could spend hours searching out and citing sources to refute what my sources said. What's the point? Its nothing more than a time wasting pissing contest to test who spends more time and effort looking to discredit the other.
> 
> I'm having a conversation about MY opinions and what I see. If you want to have a conversation about the opinions and views your information sources are, well, that is a different conversation. My opinions and views are based on the information I see and read, and yours are based on yours. Where does that get us? Why don't you tell us what YOU think instead of always citing what other people think. I know... Its a novel concept. Doesn't seem to be in your wheelhouse based on past experience. You should give a try. Of course, someone just like you might come along with their citations and try to make you and your opinion look stupid. Its a risk to be sure.
> 
> You've never liked the way I do "business". You cut apart and try tear it down whenever the mood strikes you. Yet you contribute very little to the discussion, make few assertions yourself, and do little to help anyone with their tortoises here. You are a critic. You are not a producer of helpful info. You don't make the movies. You spend your time, effort, and considerable research skills telling everyone else what's wrong with the movies. You use your research skills to refute, but not to help.



Sorry but the quality of sources matter, and as I said I tend to go to the primary material as much as possible. For example, if a headline and article says "_Nevada governor bans malaria drugs for coronavirus patients", _I read the _actual text _and can say that it is misleading. That is actually both my opinion and a fact that you can verify yourself because I've linked to it twice now. 

You state "facts" but then run behind "opinion" when pressed. And then try to insult. I am confident with my intelligence. I know I'm not stupid, so no one can make me look stupid. If you think I haven't posted my opinion, idk what to say, maybe look harder. But this thread isn't about me. So any other opinions you have of me can be made elsewhere.


----------



## jaizei

Gijoux said:


> Dr. Anthony Fauci, the US front man for managing the "pandemic," has just written an article that ought to be titled: I WAS WRONG AND THIS IS MY CONFESSION.
> 
> Fauci, New England Journal of Medicine, March 26, _"Covid-19 -- Navigating the Uncharted"_:
> 
> "If one assumes that the number of asymptomatic or minimally symptomatic cases is several times as high as the number of reported cases, the case fatality rate may be considerably less than 1%. This suggests that the overall clinical consequences of Covid-19 may ultimately be more akin to those of a severe seasonal influenza (which has a case fatality rate of approximately 0.1%) or a pandemic influenza (similar to those in 1957 and 1968)..."
> 
> In case there is any doubt, those "pandemic influenza seasons" of 1957 and 1968 did NOT result in any lockdowns. People went outdoors. They mingled. They sat in stadiums. They went to their jobs.
> 
> SO TURN THE ECONOMY BACK ON NOW. End the insanity.
> 
> Unfortunately, no surprise, the major media are still highlighting fear, so it's up to people to spread this message in any and every way they can: TIME TO GO BACK TO WORK. TURN ON THE ECONOMY.
> 
> When the man in charge of an unprecedented global operation says the product he was selling was defective, when he admits the whole basis for it was over-promoted...that is gigantic. Don't expect Fauci to apologize abjectly and lie down in the street and let a steamroller flatten him. Understand? This is as good as it'll get.



Yes, a lower fatality rate was always a possibility and has been reflected in the models from the start. The point is to slow it down, flatten the curve, to attain those lower rates. Reading this would only be surprising to someone who reads headlines and snippets. If appropriate steps had been taken in January/February to identify cases and isolate them, then less severe restrictions would have had greater impact.


----------



## jaizei

EllieMay said:


> Gov Abbott passed something today that makes it illegal to drive into Texas from Louisiana....



As far as I have seen, it just extends self-quarantining to those that enter Texas driving from Louisiana, as well as expanding quarantine to air travelers from more places.


----------



## jaizei

ZEROPILOT said:


> I prefer to not take things to heart.
> My mother is in a nursing home in Albany Georgia. Wynfeild Park. She has very limited breathing and most days can only talk in whispers. If at all.
> Albany Georgia is a small town in south western Georgia.
> The primary hospital is Phoebe. Phoebe is absolutely overrun with COVID-19 cases and there is now 1 case in my mothers nursing home. The nursing home is next door to the hospital.
> The situation is so critical that it made national news (on the Rachel Maddow show.)
> So, know that while I'm trying to make jokes and keep things light, some of us ARE already in this. It's why I mentioned last week that I had a fever. I wasn't going to go any further.
> I wasn't going to mention this. But I thought I'd point out that we are all reacting in our own way. And this is no where near over.
> I chose to remain calm.
> All of the facts aren't in yet. And some of the facts are not facts at all.
> I want this post to reflect what the situation is in your part of the country. Or in your country.
> There will be time to hurl insults afterwards.



My mom has COPD but she seems to have read the same things others in this thread have read about this being just like the flu. 

Its more than just nursing homes we have to worry about, there's been a shift in how seniors are living over the last few decades. "Senior living" facilities have been one of the most lucrative portions of the construction industry for at least the last 10-20 years. Some facilities are basically glamorous nursing homes, but usually also include "independent living" portions that are more like apartments. I think this makes comparisons to previous pandemics harder because not only is the world more interconnected, I think there are more clusters of vulnerable people now. I don't want to say thankfully, but the cluster of cases arising from the LifeCare facility in Washington was probably the slap in the face needed to get things rolling in the United States. At least a little faster.


----------



## Bambam1989

Country music star Joe Diffie died Sunday due to complications related to the covid 19. He was 61.
RIP pickup man.


----------



## Yvonne G

I just tried to buy some dry cat food using my chewy.com account and all of the "common" Purina brands are "out of stock." People are treating this lock down like some sort of end of the world apocalypse. Since I'm almost out of cat food, I had to buy a sack of the more expensive brand.

I have 6 rolls of T-paper left in the linen closet. There have been no paper products on the store shelves for weeks. Price gouging is illegal, however, trying to buy T-paper online costs way more than in the stores, plus there's shipping. I started off at Walmart.com, and all their T-paper says, "in store sales only." Yeah, right. (I do have a nicely growing banana plant that @Turtulas-Len sent me a couple years ago, but I doubt that'll be very absorbing.


----------



## Maro2Bear

Maryland’s Gov Hogan just announced that effective tonight at 8 pm they are enforcing a much stricter stay at home edict. No unnecessary travel. Non-essential businesses to close. Stay home to stay safe. Walking about is fine. Going for groceries is fine. Traveling to the shore for some sunshine, not so good.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Yvonne G said:


> I just tried to buy some dry cat food using my chewy.com account and all of the "common" Purina brands are "out of stock." People are treating this lock down like some sort of end of the world apocalypse. Since I'm almost out of cat food, I had to buy a sack of the more expensive brand.
> 
> I have 6 rolls of T-paper left in the linen closet. There have been no paper products on the store shelves for weeks. Price gouging is illegal, however, trying to buy T-paper online costs way more than in the stores, plus there's shipping. I started off at Walmart.com, and all their T-paper says, "in store sales only." Yeah, right. (I do have a nicely growing banana plant that @Turtulas-Len sent me a couple years ago, but I doubt that'll be very absorbing.


Almost every store here has a system that allows shoppers over 60 to buy products early. Before the store would normally open.


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## Toddrickfl1

Never thought I'd say this but I'm so happy to be back at work lol. Shout out to all my fellow essential warehouse workers and the truck drivers hauling it out there!


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Macy's (About to go bankrupt anyway) just furloughed without pay 130,000 employees after qualifying for the government bailout.
This has greatly impacted 2 of my very best friends.
Support your local retailers when you can. Not chains.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Toddrickfl1 said:


> Never thought I'd say this but I'm so happy to be back at work lol. Shout out to all the essential warehouse workers and truck drivers hauling loads out there!


I still hold my class A with hazardous endorsement. (We had a fuel truck project that never got funding)


----------



## Toddrickfl1

ZEROPILOT said:


> I still hold my class A with hazardous endorsement. (We had a fuel truck project that never got funding)


My job is slammed, I guess people are hoarding electrical supplies too?


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Today, my brother tells me that he won't be allowed into the delivery room when his wife gives birth in the next 10 days.
All of our local hospitals are busting at the seems.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Toddrickfl1 said:


> My job is slammed, I guess people are hoarding electrical supplies too?


Cooking oil, bleach, eggs, bread and meat are back in some quantities.
Still no wipes, alcohol or TP.
The virus is not slowing down yet. But it seems that the hoarding scare might be calming down?


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Yvonne G said:


> I just tried to buy some dry cat food using my chewy.com account and all of the "common" Purina brands are "out of stock." People are treating this lock down like some sort of end of the world apocalypse. Since I'm almost out of cat food, I had to buy a sack of the more expensive brand.
> 
> I have 6 rolls of T-paper left in the linen closet. There have been no paper products on the store shelves for weeks. Price gouging is illegal, however, trying to buy T-paper online costs way more than in the stores, plus there's shipping. I started off at Walmart.com, and all their T-paper says, "in store sales only." Yeah, right. (I do have a nicely growing banana plant that @Turtulas-Len sent me a couple years ago, but I doubt that'll be very absorbing.


AMAZON is staging a walk out....
So you might not have gotten your TP, period.


----------



## Axelay2003

Difficult to get N95 masks. I will not be able to return to work full force until May 8th per our Governor orders. I'm enjoying my little retirement. I always wanted to get things done at home.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Axelay2003 said:


> Difficult to get N95 masks. I will not be able to return to work full force until May 8th per our Governor orders. I'm enjoying my little retirement. I always wanted to get things done at home.


I hope it works out.
With my wife and I both home. We haven't accomplished SQUAT.


----------



## Maro2Bear

ZEROPILOT said:


> Cooking oil, bleach, eggs, bread and meat are back in some quantities.
> Still no wipes, alcohol or TP.
> The virus is not slowing down yet. But it seems that the hoarding scare might be calming down?



We needed a flapper for a leaking toilet. Decided to stop by our discount liquor store after HomeDepot... Ogh my gosh! A very very long line out the door & down the sidewalk to the Target. It appeared they were only permitting a certain number of folks in at a time. But, this is a massive store, the size of a typical “Sams Club”.... with a line! Not even at New Years or Fourth of July are there lines. /I guess the Governors lockdown tonight has ppl panicking again/


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## ZEROPILOT

Maro2Bear said:


> We needed a flapper for a leaking toilet. Decided to stop by our discount liquor store after HomeDepot... Ogh my gosh! A very very long line out the door & down the sidewalk to the Target. It appeared they were only permitting a certain number of folks in at a time. But, this is a massive store, the size of a typical “Sams Club”.... with a line! Not even at New Years or Fourth of July are there lines. /I guess the Governors lockdown tonight has ppl panicking again/


Part of that no more than 10 people congregating no doubt


----------



## Maro2Bear

ZEROPILOT said:


> Part of that no more than 10 people congregating no doubt



Except the 300 ppl in line!


----------



## Yvonne G

ZEROPILOT said:


> Almost every store here has a system that allows shoppers over 60 to buy products early. Before the store would normally open.


I went to my store at 6a (when they allow seniors to shop) and the paper products shelves were bare.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Yvonne G said:


> I went to my store at 6a (when they allow seniors to shop) and the paper products shelves were bare.


Crap.
Now I remember you saying that.


----------



## Turtulas-Len

ZEROPILOT said:


> Macy's (About to go bankrupt anyway) just furloughed without pay 130,000 employees after qualifying for the government bailout.
> This has greatly impacted 2 of my very best friends.
> Support your local retailers when you can. Not chains.


Macy's is covering their heath insurance cost through the end of May. Hopefully some if not all will be able to go back to work by then


----------



## Tom

Maro2Bear said:


> We needed a flapper for a leaking toilet. Decided to stop by our discount liquor store after HomeDepot... Ogh my gosh! A very very long line out the door & down the sidewalk to the Target. It appeared they were only permitting a certain number of folks in at a time. But, this is a massive store, the size of a typical “Sams Club”.... with a line! Not even at New Years or Fourth of July are there lines. /I guess the Governors lockdown tonight has ppl panicking again/


Did you get your flapper? I've got an extra I can send you.


----------



## Tom

ZEROPILOT said:


> Today, my brother tells me that he won't be allowed into the delivery room when his wife gives birth in the next 10 days.
> All of our local hospitals are busting at the seems.


That ain't right.

A beloved family friend passed away on Saturday (Not C19 related.) and we still don't know if there is going to be any sort of funeral.

I was just thinking to myself yesterday: Not a good time to get married, be born, or die.


----------



## mark1

ManAlive85 said:


> it’s pretty clear that tangerine chump has got no better idea what his government should be doing right now than the leader of any other country


 the population of the US is around 330 million 5x that of the UK or Italy , I assure you no country will bail out the US , we won't be airlifting people to neighboring countries , if anything it'll be the other way around …….. the mortality rate here at this point is 1.7% , the mortality rate in the UK appears around 6.3% , Italy 11% , spain 8.5% , france 7% hopefully these numbers are bias towards fatalities , personally i can't see how they are not ……the US first case was , i believe , jan 22 , 9 days before Italy or the uk , it appears to have killed .000021-.000025% of the population in the uk and italy , in the US it appears to have killed .000008% , at this point , our "tangerine chump" seems to be doing 2.5x better than his counterparts in Italy and the UK ??????? to not look ahead and weigh the economic repercussions in a country of 330 million people would take an absent minded idiot , the "tangerine chump's" predicament is unique in the world ……... nursing homes have in the recent past been decimated by the flu ???? you do realize in nursing homes those residents receive flu vaccines ? I still believe something like >5% on average die from the flu every year ……...the nursing home referred to in washington state was a hole , with countless health violation , i don't believe what happened there has happened anywhere else in the US ?????


----------



## Maro2Bear

Tom said:


> Did you get your flapper? I've got an extra I can send you.



Thanks Tom, yes. Flapper in hand. ??


----------



## Maro2Bear

mark1 said:


> the population of the US is around 330 million 5x that of the UK or Italy , I assure you no country will bail out the US , we won't be airlifting people to neighboring countries , if anything it'll be the other way around …….. the mortality rate here at this point is 1.7% , the mortality rate in the UK appears around 6.3% , Italy 11% , spain 8.5% , france 7% hopefully these numbers are bias towards fatalities , personally i can't see how they are not ……the US first case was , i believe , jan 22 , 9 days before Italy or the uk , it appears to have killed .000021-.000025% of the population in the uk and italy , in the US it appears to have killed .000008% , at this point , our "tangerine chump" seems to be doing 2.5x better than his counterparts in Italy and the UK ??????? to not look ahead and weigh the economic repercussions in a country of 330 million people would take an absent minded idiot , the "tangerine chump's" predicament is unique in the world ……... nursing homes have in the recent past been decimated by the flu ???? you do realize in nursing homes those residents receive flu vaccines ? I still believe something like >5% on average die from the flu every year ……...the nursing home referred to in washington state was a hole , with countless health violation , i don't believe what happened there has happened anywhere else in the US ?????



Regarding your last sentence, take a read what is now a pretty serious case here in Maryland.









1 dead after dozens of nursing home residents test positive for coronavirus


A man who was among dozens of nursing home residents in Carroll County who have tested positive for the coronavirus in the state's first outbreak has died.




www.wbaltv.com





Sterling, Va has a rather high falootin, Senior home called Falcons Landing. Cases now coming out of there (not many, yet). https://www.loudountimes.com/news/u...cle_914968b2-7210-11ea-ac8e-2f19e2ff221d.html


----------



## mark1

I believe the one in washington state had 30-40 deaths and like 90 staff test positive …….. hopefully the homes you mention do a better job


----------



## Yvonne G

Not a good time to be in a nursing home or on a cruise ship.


----------



## Tom

Yvonne G said:


> Not a good time to be in a nursing home or on a cruise ship.


My wife has a masters in microbiology, AND she's a bit of a germiphobe. She told me many years ago that we are NEVER getting on a cruise ship. Ever.

With what has been happening over the last few years, and now with this C19 scare, I'll bet the cruise ship industry is either finished, or headed for some major downsizing.


----------



## Maro2Bear

Yvonne G said:


> Not a good time to be in a nursing home or on a cruise ship.



Or live in New York or New Orleans....or .........


----------



## ZEROPILOT

There are more than one elder care homes here in Broward county that are in serious trouble with COVID-19. 
One alone has 9 deaths and a dozen more infected.
My mothers nursing home all the way in Albany Georgia, a full 550 miles away also now has its first case of COVID-19. And that Hospital has almost 20 cases on machines. And has had several fatalities.
We have a serious issue in this corner of the country.
No common flu has turned our nursing homes into morgues before.


----------



## SPILL

ZEROPILOT said:


> Today, my brother tells me that he won't be allowed into the delivery room when his wife gives birth in the next 10 days.
> All of our local hospitals are busting at the seems.


My wife is the support person for her sister who is expecting in April. After being told no one was allowed in the delivery room they have since walked that back. No visitors anywhere else in the hospital but deliveries are allowed one support person as long as they stay the whole time. It's different everywhere but maybe your brother's hospital will do the same.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

SPILL said:


> My wife is the support person for her sister who is expecting in April. After being told no one was allowed in the delivery room they have since walked that back. No visitors anywhere else in the hospital but deliveries are allowed one support person as long as they stay the whole time. It's different everywhere but maybe your brother's hospital will do the same.


My brother is very headstrong.
I'll bet he gets in.
Maybe in a full bodysuit, but I'll bet he gets in.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Maro2Bear said:


> Or live in New York or New Orleans....or .........


Your life is significantly different if you happen to live in a "hot spot" like here.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Tom said:


> My wife has a masters in microbiology, AND she's a bit of a germiphobe. She told me many years ago that we are NEVER getting on a cruise ship. Ever.
> 
> With what has been happening over the last few years, and now with this C19 scare, I'll bet the cruise ship industry is either finished, or headed for some major downsizing.


Those things have harbored illnesses for forever....And other mysterious deaths.


----------



## Toddrickfl1

ZEROPILOT said:


> Your life is significantly different if you happen to live in a "hot spot" like here.


We went from like 900 cases to over 3000 here overnight. I do hear the Rome/Albany area is pretty bad too. I feel for you man. Sorry your having to deal with that worry and I hope your mom stays safe.


----------



## Maro2Bear

And Missouri as well.

ST. LOUIS — There is no sign of a dip in coronavirus cases in St. Louis or Missouri. The region’s caseload is rocketing upward, with *the state seeing a more than 600% increase in total cases over the past week *— the largest percentage increase in the country as of Thursday, according to data collected by Johns Hopkins University.

And a lack of widespread testing largely means that experts aren’t sure when the region will reach the peak of its curve — clouding their ability to know when normal life might resume. They hope they will be able to better predict in coming days how much protective measures, like social distancing and widespread restrictions on public activities, are working.

The spread of the virus in Missouri this past week stands out, even compared to neighbors. In Illinois, where the state is under lockdown, the number of confirmed cases grew by 237% in the same period.

“The more we test right now, the more we’ll find,” said Chris Prener, a sociologist at St. Louis University.

Source: https://www.stltoday.com/business/l...cle_3b3ad75f-a5c8-5457-abaa-9adc9e68f168.html


----------



## EllieMay

jaizei said:


> As far as I have seen, it just extends self-quarantining to those that enter Texas driving from Louisiana, as well as expanding quarantine to air travelers from more places.


Yes your right. Border patrol is actively enforcing though.. anyone that enters the state must do a 14 day quarantine.


----------



## EllieMay

ZEROPILOT said:


> Today, my brother tells me that he won't be allowed into the delivery room when his wife gives birth in the next 10 days.
> All of our local hospitals are busting at the seems.



Now that’s just really sad to me... and highly unfair I think. Some moments you just don’t get back!


----------



## Maro2Bear

And more bad news..

WASHINGTON — More than *400 long-term care facilities nationwide now have residents who are infected* with the coronavirus, an increase of 172 percent from 146 on March 23, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Signs from multiple states point to a rapid increase in cases in nursing homes and other long-term care facilities.

Source - https://www.nbcnews.com/health/heal...e-facilities-covid-19-cases-tops-400-n1172516


----------



## Toddrickfl1

In my county it is now a misdemeanor punishable by up to 60 days in jail if you violate the stay at home order.









Gwinnett County Solicitor General says $1000 fine, jail time possible if you violate stay-at-home order


They said it is a misdemeanor charge.




www.11alive.com


----------



## KarenSoCal

We all know that eventually this virus will have done its damage, and will have run its course.

My fear is what life will be like afterward for the survivors. Our societal behavior and how we view others changed dramatically after 9/11, and I believe it will again.

Some of my thoughts...
1. When the virus finally ends, all survivors will probably have lost at least one person close to them, and possibly many more. Add to that the knowledge of how many others died, here in the US, and worldwide. People are going to be in shock at the horrendous statistics, and grieving their own personal losses.

2. Many people will have lost jobs or their small businesses. Giant corporations will have lost many employees, as well as millions of dollars in revenue. Both groups will count on the government to bail them out. More on that later...

3. How paranoid will we be? There will still be areas where the virus will pop up and infect some people. Are we going to be afraid of each other? Is social distancing going to continue? Are people going to hug friends, hold each other to be comforted? Are we going to want to attend football games, concerts, rallies, go to the beach, parades, conventions, and reptile shows?

4. The last I read, the US government's debt was at 23 TRILLION dollars (before COVID-19). Checks for another 2 trillion are being written for economic stimulus. Soon all those big corporations and small business owners are going to lobby and beg for bailout money, which once again, the government will pay, at a cost of ??? trillion.
The USA will be so in debt that no foreign country will make a loan. So they will simply print more money, and print more money, that is not backed by gold.
Then, we won't need to worry about toilet paper any more...we'll just use our paper money instead.

Finally, people will reach the breaking point, and is a revolution in the making?

I realise that this is a pessimistic outlook, but this is what I see ahead. Someone (@Tom?) said a freight train is coming. And it doesn't have brakes!


----------



## queen koopa

KarenSoCal said:


> We all know that eventually this virus will have done its damage, and will have run its course.
> 
> My fear is what life will be like afterward for the survivors. Our societal behavior and how we view others changed dramatically after 9/11, and I believe it will again.
> 
> Some of my thoughts...
> 1. When the virus finally ends, all survivors will probably have lost at least one person close to them, and possibly many more. Add to that the knowledge of how many others died, here in the US, and worldwide. People are going to be in shock at the horrendous statistics, and grieving their own personal losses.
> 
> 2. Many people will have lost jobs or their small businesses. Giant corporations will have lost many employees, as well as millions of dollars in revenue. Both groups will count on the government to bail them out. More on that later...
> 
> 3. How paranoid will we be? There will still be areas where the virus will pop up and infect some people. Are we going to be afraid of each other? Is social distancing going to continue? Are people going to hug friends, hold each other to be comforted? Are we going to want to attend football games, concerts, rallies, go to the beach, parades, conventions, and reptile shows?
> 
> 4. The last I read, the US government's debt was at 23 TRILLION dollars (before COVID-19). Checks for another 2 trillion are being written for economic stimulus. Soon all those big corporations and small business owners are going to lobby and beg for bailout money, which once again, the government will pay, at a cost of ??? trillion.
> The USA will be so in debt that no foreign country will make a loan. So they will simply print more money, and print more money, that is not backed by gold.
> Then, we won't need to worry about toilet paper any more...we'll just use our paper money instead.
> 
> Finally, people will reach the breaking point, and is a revolution in the making?
> 
> I realise that this is a pessimistic outlook, but this is what I see ahead. Someone (@Tom?) said a freight train is coming. And it doesn't have brakes!


All great points Karen. Very rational. Disturbing true.


----------



## Yvonne G

Yeah, that thing about the gov't sending us all a check has me worried too. All of us live and operate under a budget. We generally only spend the amount of money we have to spend. Why does the government think they can just keep doling out $$ here and there when we don't have that $$ to dole out?


----------



## Maggie3fan

queen koopa said:


> All great points Karen. Very rational. Disturbing true.


I absolutely believe that life as we have known it, will never be the same...there will be pain, mistrust, hate and comfort in a hug...almost the same as it's been for decades, only different...


----------



## Maro2Bear

Yvonne G said:


> Yeah, that thing about the gov't sending us all a check has me worried too. All of us live and operate under a budget. We generally only spend the amount of money we have to spend. Why does the government think they can just keep doling out $$ here and there when we don't have that $$ to dole out?



The Federal Reserve coupled with the US Treasury are working overtime.


----------



## queen koopa

Yvonne G said:


> Yeah, that thing about the gov't sending us all a check has me worried too. All of us live and operate under a budget. We generally only spend the amount of money we have to spend. Why does the government think they can just keep doling out $$ here and there when we don't have that $$ to dole out?


Cuz money is fake! Only has power because certain groups of people made it so a long time ago. Money is backed by gold. Gold doesn’t plant field's or slaughter cattle, or cure viruses.


----------



## Maro2Bear

Getting back to the actual number of deaths in Wuhan, I just read this article!

*Wuhan Residents Dismiss Official Coronavirus Death Toll: ‘The Incinerators Have Been Working Around the Clock’*

 Wuhan residents are increasingly skeptical of the Chinese Communist Party’s reported coronavirus death count of approximately 2,500 deaths in the city to date, with most people believing the actual number is at least 40,000.

“Maybe the authorities are gradually releasing the real figures, intentionally or unintentionally, so that people will gradually come to accept the reality,” a Wuhan resident, who gave only his surname Mao, told _Radio Free Asia_.

A city source added that, based on the aggregation of funeral and cremation numbers, authorities likely know the real number and are keeping it under wraps.

Source -https://news.yahoo.com/wuhan-residents-dismiss-official-coronavirus-164859600.html


----------



## Toddrickfl1

They're arresting people leaving their houses and I have to carry a letter from my company stating im an essential worker to go to work. This does not feel right.......


----------



## Tom

Yvonne G said:


> Yeah, that thing about the gov't sending us all a check has me worried too. All of us live and operate under a budget. We generally only spend the amount of money we have to spend. Why does the government think they can just keep doling out $$ here and there when we don't have that $$ to dole out?


Intentional economic collapse. The National debt nearly doubled during BHO's 8 years as president. We took all the debt from the entire history of this country, and almost doubled it in 8 years.

Quote from BHO before he took office and doubled the deficit:
"Now, Mizzou, I just have two words for you tonight: five days. Five days. After decades of broken politics in Washington, and eight years of failed policies from George W. Bush, and 21 months of a campaign that's taken us from the rocky coast of Maine to the sunshine of California, we are five days away from fundamentally transforming the United States of America."

You guys tell me: Are we fundamentally transforming the US of A? Free money for everyone!

Lest anyone think I'm on one side and not the other, let me clarify that I don't think either political party is working in best interest of the citizens of the USA. Bush was a terrible stammering idiot of a president and did nothing to make things better, and a substantial amount to make thing worse. I was initially very suspicious of Trump. He's an actor, formerly and openly a democrat, and he's donated millions to democratic candidates like Hillary. It looked like he had turned around and was doing some good in his first three years. Tremendous job and economic growth. Our growing conflict with North Korea just disappeared after his visit over there. Record lows for unemployment. Black unemployment the lowest it has ever been since we've been recording it. There are long lists showing all the good he's been doing for the country, despite all the lies the main stream media feeds us every day. Here is a clearly biased website telling the other side of the story that you will never see or hear on the evening news: http://www.magapill.com Seems like he was doing a good job prior to this C19 stuff, but now? Not so sure he hasn't been "one of them" all along.

Troubling times. Very troubling.


----------



## Tom

Toddrickfl1 said:


> They're arresting people leaving their houses and I have to carry a letter from my company stating im an essential worker to go to work. This does not feel right.......


WHERE ARE YOUR PAPERS???!!! YOU MUST HAVE YOUR PAPERS IN ORDER TO BE ALLOWED OUT OF YOUR HOUSE!!! Read this with a German accent...


----------



## Toddrickfl1

Tom said:


> WHERE ARE YOUR PAPERS???!!! YOU MUST HAVE YOUR PAPERS IN ORDER TO BE ALLOWED OUT OF YOUR HOUSE!!! Read this with a German accent...


----------



## Blackdog1714

It is the outliers that have lived with breathing issues that are in real danger why-- According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), 1 in 13 people have asthma. More than 25 million Americans have asthma. This is 7.7 percent of adults and 8.4 percent of children. The is a very large group that could go critical in days after exposure! Your Average Hospital has less than 50 Critical Care Beds so the rest of the nation has to step up to help stop the spread. Like Tom said my heart goes out to all the NO VISTORS that get turned away even if a loved one is in hospice. A local long therm care facility doubles it number of cases every other day- 2, 4, 8 deaths with no end in sight. I change at work and even have seperate shoes for when I get into my car. My wife works from home and I don't want to bring it in! Also lets hope VA keeps the tennis nets up or I may go missing!


----------



## jaizei

lol. The lack of information is truly stunning.


----------



## jaizei

Maro2Bear said:


> Getting back to the actual number of deaths in Wuhan, I just read this article!
> 
> *Wuhan Residents Dismiss Official Coronavirus Death Toll: ‘The Incinerators Have Been Working Around the Clock’*
> 
> Wuhan residents are increasingly skeptical of the Chinese Communist Party’s reported coronavirus death count of approximately 2,500 deaths in the city to date, with most people believing the actual number is at least 40,000.
> 
> “Maybe the authorities are gradually releasing the real figures, intentionally or unintentionally, so that people will gradually come to accept the reality,” a Wuhan resident, who gave only his surname Mao, told _Radio Free Asia_.
> 
> A city source added that, based on the aggregation of funeral and cremation numbers, authorities likely know the real number and are keeping it under wraps.
> 
> Source -https://news.yahoo.com/wuhan-residents-dismiss-official-coronavirus-164859600.html




Take solace in the fact that there is still a Wuhan. When it became apparent that this would become serious back in January/February, when China started locking cities down, I told a friend that China's reaction would let us know how dangerous (fatality rate) it truly was. As long as they don't start firebombing/leveling the cities, it's probably survivable. If they ever thought they couldn't manage it, I don't think the central government would hesitate to 'solve' the problem.


----------



## Blackdog1714

jaizei said:


> lol. The lack of information is truly stunning.


Only mirrored by the abundance of false information!


----------



## Maro2Bear

Tom said:


> WHERE ARE YOUR PAPERS???!!! YOU MUST HAVE YOUR PAPERS IN ORDER TO BE ALLOWED OUT OF YOUR HOUSE!!! Read this with a German accent...



Think Hogan’s Heroes, squinting through a monocle. Ver are your papers & passport. Rausnicht!


----------



## ZEROPILOT

queen koopa said:


> Cuz money is fake! Only has power because certain groups of people made it so a long time ago. Money is backed by gold. Gold doesn’t plant field's or slaughter cattle, or cure viruses.


Gold itself is stockpiled.
Its value would drop dramatically If it werent


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Florida's governor DeSantis and Broward county's School Board superintendent Runcie have decided that the PPO department and several others should report back to work.
Most of these positions repair school based vehicles and equipment. (There is no one at the schools.)
It's good to know that weedeaters that no one are using take priority.


----------



## Turtulas-Len

ZEROPILOT said:


> Florida's governor DeSantis and Broward county's School Board superintendent Runcie have decided that the PPO department and several others should report back to work.
> Most of these positions repair school based vehicles and equipment. (There is no one at the schools.)
> It's good to know that weedeaters that no one are using take priority.


For whatever reason, at least someone gets to go back to work.


----------



## mark1

ZEROPILOT said:


> No common flu has turned our nursing homes into morgues before.



24% of all deaths in the united states happen in nursing homes …….. i'd be willing to bet more people die in nursing homes than the morgue ???????


----------



## mark1

Yvonne G said:


> Yeah, that thing about the gov't sending us all a check has me worried too. All of us live and operate under a budget. We generally only spend the amount of money we have to spend. Why does the government think they can just keep doling out $$ here and there when we don't have that $$ to dole out?



to maintain the US economic position in the world ......... the united states is 1/4 of the worlds gdp ...... we are the largest economy in the world , last I knew we are also the largest consumer market in the world , china may have surpassed us , I don't think so though ......... americans need to buy stuff to fuel this economy , to buy stuff you need money ....not that we don't need to make stuff too , but i'm pretty sure buying stuff is a bigger deal . the government is not being kind , they're supporting the US economy , by borrowing money , it's like a ponzi scheme .......... it's no secret china has been catching the US , with the help of the US and has had plans to supplant the US economic place in the world … there are some pretty substantial advantages to holding that position …. this virus shutdown just may assist china's goal , i mean they're opening up their economy because they "no longer have a problem" , the longer this trashes our economy , the better for them …my distrustful nature has had some thoughts on that aspect ... hopefully we survive this economically and learn some obvious lessons from what is happening .........jmo


----------



## Maro2Bear

mark1 said:


> to maintain the US economic position in the world ......... the united states is 1/4 of the worlds gdp ...... we are the largest economy in the world , last I knew we are also the largest consumer market in the world , china may have surpassed us , I don't think so though ......... americans need to buy stuff to fuel this economy , to buy stuff you need money ....not that we don't need to make stuff too , but i'm pretty sure buying stuff is a bigger deal . the government is not being kind , they're supporting the US economy , by borrowing money , it's like a ponzi scheme .......... it's no secret china has been catching the US , with the help of the US and has had plans to supplant the US economic place in the world … there are some pretty substantial advantages to holding that position …. this virus shutdown just may assist china's goal , i mean they're opening up their economy because they "no longer have a problem" , the longer this trashes our economy , the better for them …my distrustful nature has had some thoughts on that aspect ... hopefully we survive this economically and learn some obvious lessons from what is happening .........jmo



Gee, it makes one think, but if this was secretly planned by the Chinese gov in some deep super secret economic war room, there is no way that they could predict outcomes taken (or not) by USG officials. That would have taken a whole lot of “Yes’s” on the decision tree. Too many factors& personalities involved. The plot thickens.


----------



## Tom

mark1 said:


> 24% of all deaths in the united states happen in nursing homes …….. i'd be willing to bet more people die in nursing homes than the morgue ???????


I'm pretty sure that almost no one dies in the morgue. Maybe an old mortician drops dead while working once in a while, but I'm pretty sure you have to already be dead to get into the morgue, unless you work there. Just sayin...


----------



## Maro2Bear

More folks dying in the Maryland Care Facility...


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Tom said:


> I'm pretty sure that almost no one dies in the morgue. Maybe an old mortician drops dead while working once in a while, but I'm pretty sure you have to already be dead to get into the morgue, unless you work there. Just sayin...


I truly believe that you understood what I meant.


----------



## mark1

Maro2Bear said:


> Gee, it makes one think, but if this was secretly planned by the Chinese gov in some deep super secret economic war room, there is no way that they could predict outcomes taken (or not) by USG officials. That would have taken a whole lot of “Yes’s” on the decision tree. Too many factors& personalities involved. The plot thickens.


 I don't think the economic war rooms are that secret …….. I've seen virologist say it's a wild virus , not engineered , i'll assume they know what they're looking at , it was just a coincidence the outbreak of this new virus was in the same city as their maximum security biolab ……….. as far as the worlds dominant power , that will be the result of economics , and I have no doubt whatsoever that they are working toward that goal , that should be a no brainer ……… I think they understand America's governmental flaws


----------



## ZEROPILOT

My wife has just been called into work.
She also works for the Broward county School board.
She works security at the TSSC building. School board police.
The board has decided that instead of having skeleton crews at different sites, they'll just cramp everyone into a single structure down town. The KC WRIGHT building. A place known to us workers as the Chrystal Palace.
All of the professional, administrative and clerical employees in a single place.
All while the virus is ramping up in that particular part of downtown Fort Lauderdale.
What's the worst that could happen.


----------



## mark1

ZEROPILOT said:


> I truly believe that you understood what I meant.



i did , it was just a stupid spur of the moment thought/post....... kinda bad taste after the fact...…... nursing homes do need to be vigilant ..... the one in washington was negligent and I believe will not be the norm ….. ..........


----------



## ZEROPILOT

I'm just a little sensative to the whole nursing home issue at the moment.
Thanks


----------



## Blackdog1714

Ilove this picture


----------



## Cathie G

ManAlive85 said:


> I never cease to be amazed by the degree of paranoia that is shared by some members of this forum, particularly around this subject. As responsible adults, of course we should distrust the media and be cynical of our governments but the idea that this is some kind of orchestrated global conspiracy is simply absurd.
> 
> I’m a Brit and often feel like something of an outsider looking in during these discussions. I haven’t been closely following what’s going on in the US other than the headline stats and the press statements from your great leader. From what I’ve seen though, it’s pretty clear that tangerine chump has got no better idea what his government should be doing right now than the leader of any other country in the world. Broadly speaking, authorities, just like us, are blindly scrambling to take what they hope will be the least damaging course of action in an unprecedented time of global crisis and whilst I would be shocked if some governments didn’t do their best to find a way to make the chaos work to their advantage where they can, I find the assertion that this is in some way a calculated overreaction to a minor health scare frankly ludicrous.
> 
> I completely understand that people are scared and angry about loosing their income and their liberties but I simply can’t see what angle you’d have to approach this from to see how a group or administration might be benefitting from this scenario, unless they own shares in a hand sanitiser factory. I’m no economist but surely the fiscal carnage caused by these indefinite shutdowns far, far exceed the benefit to any government from enacting these measures?
> 
> So many of the statistics, particularly death rates, are at this stage broadly meaningless and will remain so for weeks until this crisis at least begins to stabilise. However those who assert that COVID-19 is no more serious than seasonal flu are misguided, it is not only significantly more contagious, it has proven to be many times more deadly, in particular amongst the elderly. Seasonal flu doesn’t decimate entire care homes, for example, as has been reported in Spain and Italy. Nor does it cause hospitals to be so overwhelmed with critically ill patients that people have to be airlifted en masse to neighbouring countries for emergency treatment. And with regard to whether a patient dies from COVID-19 or pneumonia or apparently unrelated seasonal flu, once people are dying because they can’t get a hospital bed due to healthcare systems being overrun, it doesn’t matter whether the cause of death is appendicitis, it’s ultimately an extra death caused by the effects of the coronavirus.
> 
> Here in London we are at the start of what will be a steep upswing in cases and hospitals are now reaching maximum capacity for critical care patients. Fatalities are beginning to grow noticeably and are in line with the predicted trend of doubling every 2-3 days. Only time will tell but, from what I’ve seen, I suspect the US is in a very similar position. I think the suggestion that most people have already been exposed to the illness is extraordinarily optimistic and that the disease still has many more weeks or months of chaos to wreak until 50-60% of the population have been infected and it becomes safe for normal activities to resume.
> 
> There is no way of knowing how this crisis will come to pass but if there is a chance that we can save any lives by just staying indoors it would take a very strong argument to convince me that’s not a worthwhile sacrifice.


I'm actually happy that they've tried to make people behave themselves for once... wash your hands etc...it was scarier for me before all this happened. And really I'm glad our government decided to spend our taxes and borrow also to help us get through this financially but...we will have to help pay it back.


----------



## Cathie G

ZEROPILOT said:


> Cooking oil, bleach, eggs, bread and meat are back in some quantities.
> Still no wipes, alcohol or TP.
> The virus is not slowing down yet. But it seems that the hoarding scare might be calming down?


I couldn't find dry beans??? No one wants those usually except me. I managed to find tp today though. I sure the heck hope people chill out for a bit.


----------



## Tom

ZEROPILOT said:


> I truly believe that you understood what I meant.


I was talking to Mark, but yes, I completely understood both of you. Just inserting a little humor. Well... attempted humor...


----------



## Relic

I've been working on a back-up plan should TP stay off the shelves and I finally run out. It involves 3-times a week doses of Imodium anti-diarrhea medicine. In the past, it has locked up my bowels so efficiently, that when you finally go, it's as hard as a slab of granite, and there's really nothing to wipe...however, I'm having trouble getting my wife onboard with the idea.


----------



## queen koopa

Relic said:


> I've been working on a back-up plan should TP stay off the shelves and I finally run out. It involves 3-times a week doses of Imodium anti-diarrhea medicine. In the past, it has locked up my bowels so efficiently, that when you finally go, it's as hard as a slab of granite, and there's really nothing to wipe...however, I'm having trouble getting my wife onboard with the idea.


Weird. I can’t see why she would be hesitant. 

You’re a keeper for sure!
????


----------



## Yvonne G

Relic said:


> I've been working on a back-up plan should TP stay off the shelves and I finally run out. It involves 3-times a week doses of Imodium anti-diarrhea medicine. In the past, it has locked up my bowels so efficiently, that when you finally go, it's as hard as a slab of granite, and there's really nothing to wipe...however, I'm having trouble getting my wife onboard with the idea.


TMI!!!!!!


----------



## Toddrickfl1

Relic said:


> I've been working on a back-up plan should TP stay off the shelves and I finally run out. It involves 3-times a week doses of Imodium anti-diarrhea medicine. In the past, it has locked up my bowels so efficiently, that when you finally go, it's as hard as a slab of granite, and there's really nothing to wipe...however, I'm having trouble getting my wife onboard with the idea.


You win best comment for this thread lol


----------



## Tom

This popped up on YouTube today. My wife keeps asking me about the masks. My friend who is a nurse asked me weeks ago if I needed any, and I told him honestly, "I don't know. Do I?"


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Tom said:


> This popped up on YouTube today. My wife keeps asking me about the masks. My friend who is a nurse asked me weeks ago if I needed any, and I told him honestly, "I don't know. Do I?"


I remember at the beginning of this virus thing that the CDC told us that those masks did nothing.
Soon after, health workers were clamoring for those same masks.
This one did and still does sound fishy.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Tom said:


> This popped up on YouTube today. My wife keeps asking me about the masks. My friend who is a nurse asked me weeks ago if I needed any, and I told him honestly, "I don't know. Do I?"


I'll think I'll share this on YOUTUBE


----------



## ZEROPILOT

I found a sealed box of 20 of these masks I had intended to use for fiberglass work. Then never did. Out in my garage.
I'd given the others that I knew I had away.
I'll keep these.


----------



## Yvonne G

ZEROPILOT said:


> I found a sealed box of 20 of these masks I had intended to use for fiberglass work. Then never did. Out in my garage.
> I'd given the others that I knew I had away.
> I'll keep these.
> 
> View attachment 289432


I have some masks I bought to wear for when I was doing dusty Weedeater or mowing, and I've never used them. Trouble is what good will a mask do if I don't have eye protection.


----------



## jaizei

ZEROPILOT said:


> I found a sealed box of 20 of these masks I had intended to use for fiberglass work. Then never did. Out in my garage.
> I'd given the others that I knew I had away.
> I'll keep these.
> 
> View attachment 289432



haha. I literally just did the same thing like an hour ago. Some of the places I go are starting to require masks and I thought I was SOL until I went scavenging in my garage and found a box plus 1.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Yvonne G said:


> I have some masks I bought to wear for when I was doing dusty Weedeater or mowing, and I've never used them. Trouble is what good will a mask do if I don't have eye protection.


Don't eye glasses count at all?
Like the masks, they seem better than nothing....If some idiot sneezed right in your face.
I have about a dozen full coverage motorcycle helmets......


----------



## Cathie G

Relic said:


> I've been working on a back-up plan should TP stay off the shelves and I finally run out. It involves 3-times a week doses of Imodium anti-diarrhea medicine. In the past, it has locked up my bowels so efficiently, that when you finally go, it's as hard as a slab of granite, and there's really nothing to wipe...however, I'm having trouble getting my wife onboard with the idea.


Well...ur not a horder butt. If you have an extra spray bottle, as I'm sure you do cause you have a turdess, you have a mini bidet available...?


----------



## Cathie G

ZEROPILOT said:


> I'll think I'll share this on YOUTUBE


Not to mention breathing your own co2.


----------



## Cathie G

VegasJeff said:


> Out here in Las Vegas, about half the shelfs are empty in grocery stores. We are missing a lot of the stuff like Paper Products, Rice, Beans, Bottled Water. It was just dry goods but now shortages are starting to creep into fresh foods. No Russell Potatoes when we went to the grocery store today.
> 
> This whole thing seems crazy like I’m living in a war zone or the zombie apocalypse. The only disease traveling faster than the coronavirus right now is mass hysteria it seems.
> 
> I feel like I’m gonna have to start hoarding to defend myself against the mass hoarders. I need to order dog food tomorrow as I’m concerned about that running out and I need to see if I can get distilled water from one of those water stores.
> 
> I’m also starting to get concerned as my wive is suppose to give birth in about 4 weeks. Scary times to be having a baby if things get worse.


I saw this and decided to send you and your family electronic hugs and prayers. It's close. Boy or girl?


----------



## Maggie3fan

ZEROPILOT said:


> Don't eye glasses count at all?
> Like the masks, they seem better than nothing....If some idiot sneezed right in your face.
> I have about a dozen full coverage motorcycle helmets......


The solution is not to allow anybody that freakin close to you...Somebody could NEVER get close enuf to sneeze on me...ugh...


----------



## queen koopa

Toddrickfl1 said:


> They're arresting people leaving their houses and I have to carry a letter from my company stating im an essential worker to go to work. This does not feel right.......


This is such bull. There’s only 15 days left of our supposedly quarantine here in Nevada. Our stay at home order is supposed to happen tonight. They have to give people a few days before they start enforcing, then the can start restricting movement after lets say 5 days (maybe they feel thats ok). So a stay home order for 10 days? In that 10 days are they openly going to extend our shut down?

Fine Americans for living. Solo people running, walking dogs, family’s walking OUTDOORS no contact. Oh is it the Airborne risk!!? Guess we will just live in fear of our atmosphere from now on huh. I hope lawyers have a field day when the world is back.


----------



## Cathie G

maggie18fan said:


> The solution is not to allow anybody that freakin close to you...Somebody could NEVER get close enuf to sneeze on me...ugh...


What if they breath?or open their mouth and run it?...


----------



## queen koopa

mark1 said:


> i did , it was just a stupid spur of the moment thought/post....... kinda bad taste after the fact...…... nursing homes do need to be vigilant ..... the one in washington was negligent and I believe will not be the norm ….. ..........


Actually I feel that many nursing homes are negligent... super sad... their fed crap and always have infections. For example, my grandfather was at a nice facility in CA and he constantly had urinary tract infections due to care.


----------



## queen koopa

Cathie G said:


> What if they breath?or open their mouth and run it?...


Open their mouth and run it! Hahah love it


----------



## queen koopa

queen koopa said:


> This is such bull. There’s only 15 days left of our supposedly quarantine here in Nevada. Our stay at home order is supposed to happen tonight. They have to give people a few days before they start enforcing, then the can start restricting movement after lets say 5 days (maybe they feel thats ok). So a stay home order for 10 days? In that 10 days are they openly going to extend our shut down?
> 
> Fine Americans for living. Solo people running, walking dogs, family’s walking OUTDOORS no contact. Oh is it the Airborne risk!!? Guess we will just live in fear of our atmosphere from now on huh. I hope lawyers have a field day when the world is back.


Well alrighty Nevada governor just extended the shut down until April 30th. So we get another stimulus check next month? Over 3 million getting unemployment and stimulus checks.... ? Whats next.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

queen koopa said:


> Well alrighty Nevada governor just extended the shut down until April 30th. So we get another stimulus check next month? Over 3 million getting unemployment and stimulus checks.... ? Whats next.


What's next?
$20 for bread and $75,000 Toyotas.
Print more money and it's all worth less money.
It makes my happy that I don't have kids.


----------



## Maggie3fan

ZEROPILOT said:


> Don't eye glasses count at all?
> Like the masks, they seem better than nothing....If some idiot sneezed right in your face.
> I have about a dozen full coverage motorcycle helmets......


I went to the hospital today....they made me take off my mask and gloves...my scarf made into a mask, with a skull on it...and my Dale Earnhardt gloves...they said wear a mask and gloves for my appt...so I did...what the heck...


----------



## queen koopa

ZEROPILOT said:


> What's next?
> $20 for bread and $75,000 Toyotas.
> Print more money and it's all worth less money.
> It makes my happy that I don't have kids.


Dude me too.... what an unsteady fearful future to come....


----------



## skiperdee weenie

Hello from the Uk, we cant go out and all schools are closed, only one person in the shop from one household its all quite crazy really. Love having the tortoises to keep me company


----------



## queen koopa

skiperdee weenie said:


> Hello from the Uk, we cant go out and all schools are closed, only one person in the shop from one household its all quite crazy really. Love having the tortoises to keep me company


Me too. They have no idea right? 
thanks fer the UK update! Are you guys being fined for walking down the streets?


----------



## ZEROPILOT

skiperdee weenie said:


> Hello from the Uk, we cant go out and all schools are closed, only one person in the shop from one household its all quite crazy really. Love having the tortoises to keep me company


I've kind of paid less attention to my "yard pets".
I've got no energy at all.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

skiperdee weenie said:


> Hello from the Uk, we cant go out and all schools are closed, only one person in the shop from one household its all quite crazy really. Love having the tortoises to keep me company


Please keep is up to date.
We need more world coverage so that we can better compare the situation.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

queen koopa said:


> Dude me too.... what an unsteady fearful future to come....


It's not that things used to cost less....
Money used to be worth more.
My house cost $11,000 in 1971.
My dad made $6,500 a year in 1971.


----------



## Relic

I currently find a ray of normalcy in puttering around the yard each day. The plants are greening-up and blooming just like every other year. The birds are singing their hearts out. The box turtles are emerging with the typical dirt clods on their shells. The goldfish are getting active again and darting around. The dogs are chasing squirrels as they run along the top of the fence. It's like a world-within-a-world, where life is untouched by this virus, and is carrying on just like every previous year that I've lived here. It's both great and humbling to be able to retreat out there from the daily onslaught of sad news...


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Relic said:


> I currently find a ray of normalcy in puttering around the yard each day. The plants are greening-up and blooming just like every other year. The birds are singing their hearts out. The box turtles are emerging with the typical dirt clods on their shells. The goldfish are getting active again and darting around. The dogs are chasing squirrels as they run along the top of the fence. It's like a world-within-a-world, where life is untouched by this virus, and is carrying on just like every previous year that I've lived here. It's both great and humbling to be able to retreat out there from the daily onslaught of sad news...


I've been spending a lot of time sitting on the porch with my dog.


----------



## Yvonne G

The Fresno and Clovis school boards met last night. Fresno decided to keep schools closed for the rest of the school year. Clovis hopes to open in May.

I went grocery shopping today. I can understand people wanting to stock up on packaged dinners, so I wasn't surprised when there was no Kraft Macaroni and Cheese, or Knorr quickie dinners, but butter? Why on earth was there no butter on the shelves? And naturally, no T-paper. I was able to get pretty much everything I wanted. I had to substitute a few things, but all in all came home with enough groceries to feed myself and my tortoises for a while. Traffic was light. Many people wore gloves and masks (not me). I remembered to not touch my face until I was able to wash my hands at home, but I pet the hell outta' my cat on the way into the house. Now I have to remember to not pet her again until all those nasty germs have died off of her.

On a not-virus note: I came home to no internet. Seems those dang kittens were playing behind my desk again and they unplugged the power source from the wall. My house is old enough to not have three prong receptacles, so all my cords have to be first plugged into an adapter. This makes the cord extra heavy at the wall, and easy to dislodge. I guess I'll have to tape it to the wall. I've already got a whole bunch of 'stuff' piled up back there to keep them out, but they just love it back there and they find a way in.


----------



## VegasJeff

Cathie G said:


> I saw this and decided to send you and your family electronic hugs and prayers. It's close. Boy or girl?



It will be a girl. Thanks for the hugs and prayers. Crazy time to be having a baby!


----------



## Maggie3fan

ZEROPILOT said:


> I've kind of paid less attention to my "yard pets".
> I've got no energy at all.


Oh my! I thought your 'sickness' was a sort of a passing thing...and I'm sure the stress of what is happening to us as a whole, and as individuals isn't helping any...I'm sorry...
I'm sure because of the species of tortoise that you keep, you don't have a big tort shed with a large pile of soft sweet-smelling hay handy. I don't do it so much with Big Sam and Knobby...but I regularly laid in that hay and napped with Bob, especially when I didn't feel good...the warm shed, the good animal smells, the comfort of a big tortoise that felt the same way I did...all sorta like homemade mac n cheese...take care you...


----------



## Blackdog1714

One issue that will be huge after this pandemic is over is dog and cat anxiety! How will we explain to them why we have to go back to work and not spend all day with them?


----------



## ZEROPILOT

maggie18fan said:


> Oh my! I thought your 'sickness' was a sort of a passing thing...and I'm sure the stress of what is happening to us as a whole, and as individuals isn't helping any...I'm sorry...
> I'm sure because of the species of tortoise that you keep, you don't have a big tort shed with a large pile of soft sweet-smelling hay handy. I don't do it so much with Big Sam and Knobby...but I regularly laid in that hay and napped with Bob, especially when I didn't feel good...the warm shed, the good animal smells, the comfort of a big tortoise that felt the same way I did...all sorta like homemade mac n cheese...take care you...


I think that my energy level is more mental than physical.
Today I actually weed eated the big Redfoot pen and swept out the pools. Then straightened up a path through the garage and washed and waxed Kelly's car. Since she now uses my truck...
I have like sinus related symptoms. But I feel relatively decent in general.
My brother wants to go out shooting in the EVERGLADES. But is afraid to leave his wife who is extremely pregnant.
That would actually be an ideal social distancing activity.
I'm just stir crazy like everyone else.


----------



## Yvonne G

ZEROPILOT said:


> I think that my energy level is more mental than physical.
> Today I actually weed eated the big Redfoot pen and swept out the pools. Then straightened up a path through the garage and washed and waxed Kelly's car. Since she now uses my truck...
> I have like sinus related symptoms. But I feel relatively decent in general.
> My brother wants to go out shooting in the EVERGLADES. But is afraid to leave his wife who is extremely pregnant.
> That would actually be an ideal social distancing activity.
> I'm just stir crazy like everyone else.


I had to laugh at the picture your 'clear out a path through the garage' sentence presented. I think a lot of us have been there a time or two!


----------



## Tom

ZEROPILOT said:


> I've been spending a lot of time sitting on the porch with my dog.


Rocking chair and a shotgun? Sign that says: "Keep Off The Grass"?


----------



## Cathie G

Blackdog1714 said:


> One issue that will be huge after this pandemic is over is dog and cat anxiety! How will we explain to them why we have to go back to work and not spend all day with them?


That's ok...they'll just get used to getting back to their usual selves. They might even have a pillow fight behind your back for fun...


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Tom said:


> Rocking chair and a shotgun? Sign that says: "Keep Off The Grass"?


Keep off of my brown, dry, crunchy grass!


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Yvonne G said:


> I had to laugh at the picture your 'clear out a path through the garage' sentence presented. I think a lot of us have been there a time or two!


I own a very small house. So most of the clutter winds up shoved out there.


----------



## Maggie3fan

ZEROPILOT said:


> I think that my energy level is more mental than physical.
> Today I actually weed eated the big Redfoot pen and swept out the pools. Then straightened up a path through the garage and washed and waxed Kelly's car. Since she now uses my truck...
> I have like sinus related symptoms. But I feel relatively decent in general.
> My brother wants to go out shooting in the EVERGLADES. But is afraid to leave his wife who is extremely pregnant.
> That would actually be an ideal social distancing activity.
> I'm just stir crazy like everyone else.


I would SO love to actually go in the Everglades...not a good idea for your brother to go right now tho...I was seriously stir crazy so I took out the car and found an empty road and just drove...Oregon is really very pretty...then I went to my empty church parking lot and made a few donuts...came home, cooked, washed the kitchen floor and now I am camped out on the sofa, eating good food and watching pseudo reality murder shows...what a life...


----------



## Toddrickfl1

Yvonne G said:


> I had to laugh at the picture your 'clear out a path through the garage' sentence presented. I think a lot of us have been there a time or two!


My clutter area is the basement. I'm sure there's things down there that I don't even remember owning lol.


----------



## Gijoux

ZEROPILOT said:


> Gold itself is stockpiled.
> Its value would drop dramatically If it werent



Money has not been backed by gold for a very long time.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Gijoux said:


> Money has not been backed by gold for a very long time.


Yep.
Long before my time.


----------



## Cathie G

ZEROPILOT said:


> I own a very small house. So most of the clutter winds up shoved out there.


Me too. Small house but hobbies and such stuff. Hoping you get some energy back soon.☺


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Since gold worth is artificially inflated and cash will soon have even less value....
Maybe toilet paper can be our new currency!


----------



## Tom

ZEROPILOT said:


> Since gold worth is artificially inflated and cash will soon have even less value....
> Maybe toilet paper can be our new currency!


TP, Bic lighters, and bullets. I'm about to be a rich man!


----------



## Pistachio's Pamperer

Tom... Shhh!! Don’t tell my hubby that. We already have enough ammo around here to furnish our own army.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Pistachio's Pamperer said:


> Tom... Shhh!! Don’t tell my hubby that. We already have enough ammo around here to furnish our own army.


You can never have too much.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

There are now 2 confirmed COVID-19 cases at my mothers nursing home and two nurses have quit that work at Phoebe hospital next door due to the many infected patients and staff, deaths and lack of PPE.
Nobody in my mothers area of the home has tested positive.


----------



## Tom

Pistachio's Pamperer said:


> Tom... Shhh!! Don’t tell my hubby that. We already have enough ammo around here to furnish our own army.


I like people who are prepared. PREpared. As in: Get ready before you are in the middle of a problem. If you are ever out west, stop by and visit!


----------



## Pistachio's Pamperer

??‍ Oh no. You too?? That’s the response when the 20lbs box from ammo depot shows up. “We can never have enough.” Our gun club is shut for now or else he would have us up there every weekend now that the weather is pretty here. Meg=smallish girl, so running several mags through some of our stuff results in bruises. Sooo not looking forward to practice time with his newest toy. Yes, he bought an AK. Ugh!
-Meg


----------



## Pistachio's Pamperer

Tom:: I get you and agree completely. I compete every year in the gun clubs competitions, mostly so I can see how I am doing. 
But the military precision of hubbys teachings are a bit much at times. I grew up as a country girl so guns where trained at an early age, but more in regards to a way to obtain food. 
And the dogs are another training session on their own. Modified shutzhund. They go with a lot when we are practicing. I only have one that is gun shy. 
-Meg


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Pistachio's Pamperer said:


> ??‍ Oh no. You too?? That’s the response when the 20lbs box from ammo depot shows up. “We can never have enough.” Our gun club is shut for now or else he would have us up there every weekend now that the weather is pretty here. Meg=smallish girl, so running several mags through some of our stuff results in bruises. Sooo not looking forward to practice time with his newest toy. Yes, he bought an AK. Ugh!
> -Meg


My AKs cut my fingers and hands. No bruises.
And an AR15 is a puppy dog.
Are you firing some giant bolt action gun or a shotgun?


----------



## Pistachio's Pamperer

You name it we probably have one laying in the gun room(yeah normal ppl don’t have entire rooms). Not a big fan of any of our ARs. Several shotguns which I don’t particularly like either. Couldn’t even name all the assorted rifles. I am not a long gun person. I appreciate what they can do, but not a fan of spending hours firing them. I always end up with shoulder bruising. And some of the bolt action stuff leaves weird callouses on my hands. 

Hand guns. I can fire either handed accurately. But my hands are small enough that if I haven’t done it in awhile the 10mm, 44, 45 all make my hands hurt after awhile and feel bruised the next day. And anything in the desert eagle family, (baby!-haha-right) is the Devil. 
-Meg


----------



## ZEROPILOT

I definitely dont spend hours shooting.
I'll go through a few boxes of ammo. 
It gets expensive


----------



## Tom

Pistachio's Pamperer said:


> Tom:: I get you and agree completely. I compete every year in the gun clubs competitions, mostly so I can see how I am doing.
> But the military precision of hubbys teachings are a bit much at times. I grew up as a country girl so guns where trained at an early age, but more in regards to a way to obtain food.
> And the dogs are another training session on their own. Modified shutzhund. They go with a lot when we are practicing. I only have one that is gun shy.
> -Meg


You are awesome. If there was a way we could choose our family, I'd choose you and your hubby!


----------



## Yvonne G

I don't do guns. I had an antique hand gun left to me by a distant uncle, a 22 rifle and one other gun I don't remember, and I gave them both to my son in law. Not interested in even having guns in the house.


----------



## Pistachio's Pamperer

Zero:: that’s why I have become the queen of the reload. Lol Yes, it’s an expensive hobby, but I “let” him do that and he “lets” me have the tortoise and my cars. LMAO Hoping to sneak a turtle in when he’s not looking. 

Tom:: Exactly. Thank you. I have found more ppl on here that I “jive” with than IRL. 

-Meg


----------



## Pistachio's Pamperer

Yvonne: And I can respect that as well. Unfortunately I have had two situations that would have probably gone a lot differently if I hadn’t had one. Had a guy here at the house a year ago trying to break into the house and cars. Drugged out and acting extremely neurotic. He didn’t realize I was home and my dogs are trained to be quiet. Had he gotten into the house it would have been much worse for the dogs than him. We are in one of those lovely counties where a dog bite results in quarantining of the dog which owner pays for and more often than not the dog is put down for its “act of violence”. And I am no longer a holder of any certification to prove my dogs training. I had a fully trained papered dog when I lived in Georgia and I was assisting in teaching classes. I tried to run him off multiple times and finally had to hold him at gun point until the police arrived. Little did I know he had a bunch of the neighbors stuff stashed in a duffle bag and weapons. The neighbor up the road called the cops when the guy came out of another neighbors house. It took the cops 30mins to get here. They knew the dude and took special precautions to handle him as he’s “diseased” and a spitter. 

Another night I went up to meet hubby at work so we could go to a local concert. Had what I thought was a drunk passed out on his car, and it’s common here for that to happen. I yelled at him at a distance as I was dialing 911. Hubby came out. And hubby is a big dude, think JJ Watt/Gronkowski/ football player. So dummy butt decided he was gonna “slide” dude off his car. Hubby can’t be armed at work. Well surprise dude came at him with a knife and wasn’t drunk at all. So I pulled my firearm and held him til cops get there. 

I am itty bitty and sometimes my firearm is the greatest equalizer I can have. I can fight hand to hand but in this day and age but I prefer to have the upper hand and space between me and them. 
-Meg


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Yvonne G said:


> I don't do guns. I had an antique hand gun left to me by a distant uncle, a 22 rifle and one other gun I don't remember, and I gave them both to my son in law. Not interested in even having guns in the house.


If guns make you uncomfortable, then owning one probably wouldn't be able to help you if you needed it.
I completely understand.
I've never used a firearm in any way for self defense. But I'm always carrying a gun. My wife also has a carry permit. And the house has guns hidden here and there.
I grew up in the south. Raised in the woods. Guns have always been in my life.
It's a little bit like motorcycle ownership. If you buy one to be "fashionable", it'll probably not end well.

I don't know how this became a firearm thread.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

In a classic case of WTF:
I ventured out this morning for our weekly spending money with my ill fitting gloves and mask....
3 different WELLS FARGO banks and 1 TD bank closed. ATM machines empty.
The 4th WELLS FARGO in a seedy area of Sunrise was open. ONE drive through line had several dozen cars in it with a line snaking around the building and pouring out into the street. ATM empty.
I drove to Hollywood because my pet store is there and found a TD bank. The location that I had a recently bad experience and it was actually open and had a smaller line.
What's next?
Banking with cash under the mattress?


----------



## Pistachio's Pamperer

Zero:: Part of the problem is the techs and “money fillers” of those ATMS are having issues getting parts to repair the machines. And like depression era ppl are pulling money like crazy afraid the banks are going to collapse. Which in turn is then causing more issues with the machines, big ugly circle. 

And good job guys. Hubby heard you. I just got a box full of ammo. LMAO.


----------



## Yvonne G

I only use my credit card, and I pay it off monthly. Since I don't eat out, I don't have a need for cash money.

If you go to the grocery store and buy a few supplies with your ATM card, then can you ask for cash back?


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Yvonne G said:


> I only use my credit card, and I pay it off monthly. Since I don't eat out, I don't have a need for cash money.
> 
> If you go to the grocery store and buy a few supplies with your ATM card, then can you ask for cash back?


Probably.
But I try to not use cards.


----------



## Yvonne G

ZEROPILOT said:


> Probably.
> But I try to not use cards.


Well you have to use your card at the ATM machine, right? Just think of this as an ATM visit with milk and bread!


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Yvonne G said:


> Well you have to use your card at the ATM machine, right? Just think of this as an ATM visit with milk and bread!


Yes.
But I just use my ATM card at the banks ATM


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Pistachio's Pamperer said:


> Zero:: Part of the problem is the techs and “money fillers” of those ATMS are having issues getting parts to repair the machines. And like depression era ppl are pulling money like crazy afraid the banks are going to collapse. Which in turn is then causing more issues with the machines, big ugly circle.
> 
> And good job guys. Hubby heard you. I just got a box full of ammo. LMAO.


Most of the ammo I get in the mail is Russian made WOLF. It's cheap. But its really dirty.


----------



## Blackdog1714

ZEROPILOT said:


> Most of the ammo I get in the mail is Russian made WOLF. It's cheap. But its really dirty.


The smoke it leaves behind each shot hides you. Like James Bond! At least that is what I tell myself


----------



## Pistachio's Pamperer

ZEROPILOT said:


> Most of the ammo I get in the mail is Russian made WOLF. It's cheap. But its really dirty.


That Jesse James ammo he got today, runs price wise about the same, and I think it's pretty clean. Shoots nice too.





Ammunition Depot | Bulk Ammo, Firearms, Magazines, and More


Ammunition Depot is America's trusted online source for purchasing bulk ammo, firearms, magazines, & shooting accessories from the top manufacturers you trust.




www.ammunitiondepot.com




Where we get a lot of stuff, been happy with most of it. Even with the craziness in the world right now we got it in less than 2 weeks.

-Meg


----------



## ZEROPILOT

I hadn't realised that guns were getting snapped up until recently.
I don't understand it.


----------



## queen koopa

ZEROPILOT said:


> I hadn't realised that guns were getting snapped up until recently.
> I don't understand it.


 reducing constitutional rights scares people, as well it should.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

I found some toilet paper today.
Limit one pack per customer.
The grocery store is only allowing 20 customers in the store at a time and there is a long line.
Everyone is wearing gloves. Almost everyone has some sort of mask on.
Unfortunately, its beginning to feel normal.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

I found out that these masks I found in the garage, are actually very good ones.
I trimmed my beard and these make a very nice seal.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Someone on FACEBOOK mentioned the lack of bird activity here in this part of SE Florida.....
And I think he's correct.
Maybe it's paranoia?
Maybe we have too much time on our hands?
I see no birds.


----------



## Toddrickfl1

ZEROPILOT said:


> I found some toilet paper today.
> Limit one pack per customer.
> The grocery store is only allowing 20 customers in the store at a time and there is a long line.
> Everyone is wearing gloves. Almost everyone has some sort of mask on.
> Unfortunately, its beginning to feel normal.


I went to Walmart today and there was a whole family of four wearing gas masks shopping.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

.....perfect time for a robbery!
Everyone's dressed in disguise.


----------



## Toddrickfl1

ZEROPILOT said:


> .....perfect time for a robbery!
> Everyone's dressed in disguise.


For real, I said to a driver at work the other day, You here to pickup, drop off, or Rob the place? Lol


----------



## Yvonne G

Toddrickfl1 said:


> For real, I said to a driver at work the other day, You here to pickup, drop off, or Rob the place? Lol


Our city has advised law enforcement to wear masks their whole shift.


----------



## Blackdog1714

Yvonne G said:


> Our city has advised law enforcement to wear masks their whole shift.


I know for a fact I have been exposed twice at work already. So far no symptoms and I am watching carefully, but back to work I will go on Monday


----------



## ZEROPILOT

I just saw a little thing on the nightly news saying that in June, the US POSTAL SERVICE may suspend all deliveries of domestic mail.
That would seriously suck.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Blackdog1714 said:


> I know for a fact I have been exposed twice at work already. So far no symptoms and I am watching carefully, but back to work I will go on Monday


There is also quite a story to be told about my wifes job/management.
Same thing as yours. But some if the information is still confidential. 
Many people have been unnecessarily and inexcusably exposed and possibly infected.
Including her.


----------



## Warren

ZEROPILOT said:


> I just saw a little thing on the nightly news saying that in June, the US POSTAL SERVICE may suspend all deliveries of domestic mail.
> That would seriously suck.


It only April and my neighbors and myself have not seen a mail truck or a mail person in over 5 days. Our neighborhood post office had an employee test positive for Corona Virus, they've lock the doors and won't answer the phone. Call the main office, downtown Baltimore and they took the complaint.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Warren said:


> It only April and my neighbors and myself have not seen a mail truck or a mail person in over 5 days. Our neighborhood post office had an employee test positive for Corona Virus, they've lock the doors and won't answer the phone. Call the main office, downtown Baltimore and they took the complaint.


Oh, boy.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Blackdog1714 said:


> I know for a fact I have been exposed twice at work already. So far no symptoms and I am watching carefully, but back to work I will go on Monday


This WACK A MOLE exposure will just prolong the length of time this crap goes on


----------



## ZEROPILOT

4 people in my wifes building tested positive for COVID-19.
So the geniuses in charge sent all of the workers from that building....Already exposed....To the MAIN building downtown.
What do you know? 2 more cases and no access to PPE.
Now that EVERYONE is good and well saturated in sickness.....They've all been told to return home. (FOR A WEEK)
This is an example of the crap going on here.
Hopefully your local government doesn't have it's head so far up it's own rear.


----------



## Srmcclure

They are pretty much all clueless lol


----------



## mark1

i don't believe they're clueless , i believe they know what needs done , and what can't be done ......I believe the prevailing idea is to prolong the length of time over which people become exposed , the longer the better , as frightening as that is ……as it stands now I believe exposure is the only cure …….... I don't believe this goes away without a lifetime vaccine , which is doubtful ……... it becomes less dangerous when everybody has been exposed to it and survived , or they have a yearly vaccination and proven treatments , such as anti-virals ……..it's highly doubtful this is going to disappear ever, hopefully it's seasonal ..........i'm sure the government knows this ……… the science is full of conjecture ……... china's government made a horrible error and put a serious hurting on this world ......... parvo in dogs was similar , it made it's way around the world in like 6 months , was very contagious , very deadly , like 10% in adult dogs and 90% in puppies , the virus could live on surfaces for months ...... it's still around and really not an issue , the vets used to make you keep a suspected case in the car and then bring them in the backdoor , most wild animals like raccoons , coyotes carry it , most dogs are immune to it from exposure .........


----------



## ZEROPILOT

mark1 said:


> i don't believe they're clueless , i believe they know what needs done , and what can't be done ......I believe the prevailing idea is to prolong the length of time over which people become exposed , the longer the better , as frightening as that is ……as it stands now I believe exposure is the only cure …….... I don't believe this goes away without a lifetime vaccine , which is doubtful ……... it becomes less dangerous when everybody has been exposed to it and survived , or they have a yearly vaccination and proven treatments , such as anti-virals ……..it's highly doubtful this is going to disappear ever, hopefully it's seasonal ..........i'm sure the government knows this ……… the science is full of conjecture ……... china's government made a horrible error and put a serious hurting on this world ......... parvo in dogs was similar , it made it's way around the world in like 6 months , was very contagious , very deadly , like 10% in adult dogs and 90% in puppies , the virus could live on surfaces for months ...... it's still around and really not an issue , the vets used to make you keep a suspected case in the car and then bring them in the backdoor , most wild animals like raccoons , coyotes carry it , most dogs are immune to it from exposure .........


To be honest.
For myself, I'd like to just get it and be done with it.
But I'm also not very likely to die from it.


----------



## Blackdog1714

Yeah I was in a zone of our ER in the morning and by afternoon 2 walls were installed with a door about to be fitted! Went from a “Warm Zone” to a Hot containment by lunch!


----------



## ZEROPILOT

A tiger at the BRONX ZOO just tested positive for CIVOD-19 and is I'll from it.
Several other big cats at the zoo are also ill.
Nice . New and concerning...


----------



## iAmCentrochelys sulcata

ZEROPILOT said:


> A tiger at the BRONX ZOO just tested positive for CIVOD-19 and is I'll from it.
> Several other big cats at the zoo are also ill.
> Nice . New and concerning...


You think the COVID-19 can cause a impact on Reptiles? Since they aren’t mammals or have a different effect


----------



## ZEROPILOT

iAmCentrochelys sulcata said:


> You think the COVID-19 can cause a impact on Reptiles? Since they aren’t mammals or have a different effect


No.
But 24 hours ago, it "couldn't" effect dogs or cats, either.
I seriously doubt that it would end up infecting anything but mammals


----------



## iAmCentrochelys sulcata

ZEROPILOT said:


> No.
> But 24 hours ago, it "couldn't" effect dogs or cats, either.
> I seriously doubt that it would end up infecting anything but mammals


Has it impacted your life?


----------



## mark1

iAmCentrochelys sulcata said:


> Has it impacted your life?


cats and dogs have carried coronavirus forever , if it becomes able to pass between humans , cats and dogs it will impact everyones life ........... as far as human life , economics and number of lives impacted , this appears to be is a bigger f*** up than chernobyl , three mile island , the exxon valdez , fukushima or the horizon oil spill ........ i believe the US chamber of commerce estimates 25% of small businesses in the US will not reopen ...


----------



## Maro2Bear

ZEROPILOT said:


> A tiger at the BRONX ZOO just tested positive for CIVOD-19 and is I'll from it.
> Several other big cats at the zoo are also ill.
> Nice . New and concerning...



Pro Tip - Stay six feet away from tigers with COVID-19. !


----------



## ZEROPILOT

iAmCentrochelys sulcata said:


> Has it impacted your life?


I don't know anyone that is infected. But my mother is in serious danger.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

mark1 said:


> cats and dogs have carried coronavirus forever , if it becomes able to pass between humans , cats and dogs it will impact everyones life ........... as far as human life , economics and number of lives impacted , this appears to be is a bigger f*** up than chernobyl , three mile island , the exxon valdez , fukushima or the horizon oil spill ........ i believe the US chamber of commerce estimates 25% of small businesses in the US will not reopen ...


Yeah.
And no end in sight.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

The roads are pretty empty here.
Life is almost at a standstill.
There is a new testing station here in my neighborhood in WELLEBY/SUNRISE
Mail delivery is sporadic.


----------



## Yvonne G

My daughter has a very slow growing lymphoma. Found out about it about a year or so ago. She works in an elementary school cafeteria, and they prepare 1000 meals a day, with 2000 on Thursdays because they're off Fridays. Even though school is not in session, they still provide the free meals. 

I've asked her a couple times if she wanted a few masks, as I have several that I bought for dust protection. She always says no. But this a.m. I got an email from her saying she has finally realized how serious this covid-19 thing is and she has emailed to her boss that after spring break she won't be going back to work, but rather she'll be sheltering at home.

My female kitten needs to have her spay surgery stitches removed, but I can't do it without an extra set of hands to hold her still. Until my daughter has been home for two weeks with no symptoms, I don't want to ask her (she's been in contact with all those germy school children), and I'm not friendly with my neighbors. There IS an 83 year old neighbor across the street from me, but she lives with her son and his wife, who are still going out into the germy world. I never ever thought I would be in a situation like this. Even way back in the 40s when my mom had polio and our house was quarantined with a big red sign on the door, it wasn't like this.


----------



## Tom

Yvonne G said:


> My daughter has a very slow growing lymphoma. Found out about it about a year or so ago. She works in an elementary school cafeteria, and they prepare 1000 meals a day, with 2000 on Thursdays because they're off Fridays. Even though school is not in session, they still provide the free meals.
> 
> I've asked her a couple times if she wanted a few masks, as I have several that I bought for dust protection. She always says no. But this a.m. I got an email from her saying she has finally realized how serious this covid-19 thing is and she has emailed to her boss that after spring break she won't be going back to work, but rather she'll be sheltering at home.
> 
> My female kitten needs to have her spay surgery stitches removed, but I can't do it without an extra set of hands to hold her still. Until my daughter has been home for two weeks with no symptoms, I don't want to ask her (she's been in contact with all those germy school children), and I'm not friendly with my neighbors. There IS an 83 year old neighbor across the street from me, but she lives with her son and his wife, who are still going out into the germy world. I never ever thought I would be in a situation like this. Even way back in the 40s when my mom had polio and our house was quarantined with a big red sign on the door, it wasn't like this.


I wish you lived close to me. I'd would love to help you and visit.


----------



## mark1

ZEROPILOT said:


> Yeah.
> And no end in sight.



they never had or have to the best of my knowledge a vaccine or anti-viral that has shown to be worth using for the respiratory form of corona in dogs ……


----------



## mark1

Yvonne G said:


> My female kitten needs to have her spay surgery stitches removed, but I can't do it without an extra set of hands to hold her still. Until my daughter has been home for two weeks with no symptoms, I don't want to ask her (she's been in contact with all those germy school children), and I'm not friendly with my neighbors. There IS an 83 year old neighbor across the street from me, but she lives with her son and his wife, who are still going out into the germy world. I never ever thought I would be in a situation like this. Even way back in the 40s when my mom had polio and our house was quarantined with a big red sign on the door, it wasn't like this.



have you called the vet ? how it's done here is you call make an appt. or tell them when you'll be there , you stay in your car , they come out and they take your animal , you wait in your car ……….


----------



## iAmCentrochelys sulcata

Maro2Bear said:


> Pro Tip - Stay six feet away from tigers with COVID-19. !


Yes even tho is not likely for most of us to be in contact with a tiger.?


----------



## iAmCentrochelys sulcata

ZEROPILOT said:


> I don't know anyone that is infected. But my mother is in serious danger.


Keep her safe, my theory is that half of us will get it. But who knows? If we all stay inside and follow instructions we won’t get it.


----------



## Tom

iAmCentrochelys sulcata said:


> Yes even tho is not likely for us to be in contact with a tiger.?


Speak for yourself.


----------



## iAmCentrochelys sulcata

Tom said:


> Speak for yourself.


What?


----------



## Cathie G

mark1 said:


> have you called the vet ? how it's done here is you call make an appt. or tell them when you'll be there , you stay in your car , they come out and they take your animal , you wait in your car ……….


Here also.


----------



## Yvonne G

mark1 said:


> have you called the vet ? how it's done here is you call make an appt. or tell them when you'll be there , you stay in your car , they come out and they take your animal , you wait in your car ……….


one of my vet's employees reported out sick and because the vet doesn't know what the sickness is he has stopped all contact.


----------



## Cathie G

Yvonne G said:


> My daughter has a very slow growing lymphoma. Found out about it about a year or so ago. She works in an elementary school cafeteria, and they prepare 1000 meals a day, with 2000 on Thursdays because they're off Fridays. Even though school is not in session, they still provide the free meals.
> 
> I've asked her a couple times if she wanted a few masks, as I have several that I bought for dust protection. She always says no. But this a.m. I got an email from her saying she has finally realized how serious this covid-19 thing is and she has emailed to her boss that after spring break she won't be going back to work, but rather she'll be sheltering at home.
> 
> My female kitten needs to have her spay surgery stitches removed, but I can't do it without an extra set of hands to hold her still. Until my daughter has been home for two weeks with no symptoms, I don't want to ask her (she's been in contact with all those germy school children), and I'm not friendly with my neighbors. There IS an 83 year old neighbor across the street from me, but she lives with her son and his wife, who are still going out into the germy world. I never ever thought I would be in a situation like this. Even way back in the 40s when my mom had polio and our house was quarantined with a big red sign on the door, it wasn't like this.


Here, my vet is doing a curbside thing. 'So far' They come out and get them. Razberri and Dilly. Razberri is getting a nail manicure. Dilly is getting a senior checkup. We'll see. So I'm sure your vet will consider his surgery patient essential.


----------



## Maro2Bear

Tom said:


> Speak for yourself.



@Tom I hope you trained those tigers to cough in their arms!


----------



## Maro2Bear

iAmCentrochelys sulcata said:


> What?


Tom is a world-class animal trainer. If anyone is close to a Tiger, it’s gonna be Tom!


----------



## Cathie G

Yvonne G said:


> one of my vet's employees reported out sick and because the vet doesn't know what the sickness is he has stopped all contact.


Oh i didn't see this. Maybe he still has someone to cover? in his absence? I'll be thinking of you and kitty for a good outcome.


----------



## Gijoux

mark1 said:


> i don't believe they're clueless , i believe they know what needs done , and what can't be done ......I believe the prevailing idea is to prolong the length of time over which people become exposed , the longer the better , as frightening as that is ……as it stands now I believe exposure is the only cure …….... I don't believe this goes away without a lifetime vaccine , which is doubtful ……... it becomes less dangerous when everybody has been exposed to it and survived , or they have a yearly vaccination and proven treatments , such as anti-virals ……..it's highly doubtful this is going to disappear ever, hopefully it's seasonal ..........i'm sure the government knows this ……… the science is full of conjecture ……... china's government made a horrible error and put a serious hurting on this world ......... parvo in dogs was similar , it made it's way around the world in like 6 months , was very contagious , very deadly , like 10% in adult dogs and 90% in puppies , the virus could live on surfaces for months ...... it's still around and really not an issue , the vets used to make you keep a suspected case in the car and then bring them in the backdoor , most wild animals like raccoons , coyotes carry it , most dogs are immune to it from exposure .........



There are no "lifetime vaccines" and they will never be able to be made, because the "memory cell" for lifetime immunity is the first cell made in the immune cascade and can only happen within the immune system of individuals after a reletively strong "natural exposure" occurring at the mucus membrane. Approximately 5% of the population have a genetic inability to make antibodies or hold immunity for a particular disease. There are some states and other countries who have not imposed quarantine measures in an attempt to reach the "herd immunity" status quicker, which can occur at even 65% of the population. We must remember that this is a very mild illness for approximately 98-99% of the population.


----------



## Cathie G

Maro2Bear said:


> Pro Tip - Stay six feet away from tigers with COVID-19. !


Yep...I was watching the news too... I guess us germy things infected the zoo too.


----------



## Cathie G

ZEROPILOT said:


> A tiger at the BRONX ZOO just tested positive for CIVOD-19 and is I'll from it.
> Several other big cats at the zoo are also ill.
> Nice . New and concerning...


Wow. I didn't see that the cats were ill. I have read that cats can be sick with a strep you got treated for. But left unchecked in them...so you just keep getting it back...


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Man.
I just cooked some Salmon I found in the freezer.
I don't remember buying it or how long I've had it. (I've only had that 'fridge for a year.)
It came out ok.
Neither of us like Salmon.
So it's todays mystery.


----------



## iAmCentrochelys sulcata

ZEROPILOT said:


> Man.
> I just cooked some Salmon I found in the freezer.
> I don't remember buying it or how long I've had it. (I've only had that 'fridge for a year.)
> It came out ok.
> Neither of us like Salmon.
> So it's todays mystery.





ZEROPILOT said:


> Man.
> I just cooked some Salmon I found in the freezer.
> I don't remember buying it or how long I've had it. (I've only had that 'fridge for a year.)
> It came out ok.
> Neither of us like Salmon.
> So it's todays mystery.


Salmon! Uhh? I deslike any types of fish lol. I used to keep help feral cats. Most of the part they licked being Scratched in the Chin.


----------



## Tom

iAmCentrochelys sulcata said:


> What?


I work with tigers regularly. Other animals too.


----------



## iAmCentrochelys sulcata

What’s o


Tom said:


> I work with tigers regularly. Other animals too.


What’s your Job?


----------



## Tom

iAmCentrochelys sulcata said:


> What’s o
> 
> What’s your Job?


I train animals for film. All animals. I do several big cat jobs a year, and frequently visit the compounds of friends who have them. I'm not really one of the "big cat guys", but I've raised a few from babies, and been around them for years. I always had a preference for the apes and monkeys.


----------



## mark1

Gijoux said:


> There are no "lifetime vaccines" and they will never be able to be made, because the "memory cell" for lifetime immunity is the first cell made in the immune cascade and can only happen within the immune system of individuals after a reletively strong "natural exposure" occurring at the mucus membrane. Approximately 5% of the population have a genetic inability to make antibodies or hold immunity for a particular disease. There are some states and other countries who have not imposed quarantine measures in an attempt to reach the "herd immunity" status quicker, which can occur at even 65% of the population. We must remember that this is a very mild illness for approximately 98-99% of the population.



in dogs I believe there are , and you have non-responders in dogs also …… rotts and pits were notorious for getting parvo no matter how well vaccinated they were ……. knowing hundreds of Bordeaux dogs , I've never seen one get parvo …….. can you get measles twice ? chicken pox ? I know I vaccinate pups at 12 weeks for parvo and distemper , and never again , my dogs are exposed to massive amounts of diseases , other dogs , wildlife , constantly ….. I've never had a dog get parvo or distemper ……. when I was young we had pitbulls get both …..


----------



## ZEROPILOT

mark1 said:


> in dogs I believe there are , and you have non-responders in dogs also …… rotts and pits were notorious for getting parvo no matter how well vaccinated they were ……. knowing hundreds of Bordeaux dogs , I've never seen one get parvo …….. can you get measles twice ? chicken pox ? I know I vaccinate pups at 12 weeks for parvo and distemper , and never again , my dogs are exposed to massive amounts of diseases , other dogs , wildlife , constantly ….. I've never had a dog get parvo or distemper ……. when I was young we had pitbulls get both …..


I can attest to the fact that you CAN have full blown Chicken Pox twice.....


----------



## KronksMom

ZEROPILOT said:


> I've had chicken pox twice.
> That's not supposed to happen.


I've had chicken pox 3 times now. The second time I got it the doctor said I must have been misdiagnosed the first time. So I went back the third time and he said, "Ok, this changes things." Apparently I will never develop an immunity to chicken pox, always need to be careful around it, and especially need to be careful of shingles. He strongly recommended the shingles vaccine for me. I still haven't done it, but it's something I think about.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

After much fruitless searching, I found a thermometer today to replace the old, sealed, dying digital unit I've had for years.
It was at Walmart in the pediatrics area, above the displays laying in the overstock area.
Some days it's great to be tall.


----------



## Toddrickfl1

This is my ride home, this is usually bumper to bumper traffic. It feels really ominous.


----------



## Pistachio's Pamperer

Wow.. I don't think I have -ever- seen that road that quiet.
-lived in lake city, georgia for 3 years.

-Meg


----------



## Maggie3fan

Toddrickfl1 said:


> This is my ride home, this is usually bumper to bumper traffic. It feels really ominous.
> View attachment 290065



I had been taking my car out on our roads that look like that...just to get out of the house and drive off some tension...but just now I heard a ruckus out in the street...there were 2 ambulances, 2 sheriff cars and another neighbor...we are being nosy, and 2 EMT's brought out a stretcher w/my neighbor a man 40 something...the EMT's were in full on Hazmat suits, then out came the wife on a stretcher, again Hazmat suits, and we asked a neighbor on the other side and he said they both tested positive for the virus. Wonder why the cops??...Yep, it feels pretty serious all the sudden...bet their house is not 40 yards away from me....


----------



## ZEROPILOT

maggie18fan said:


> I had been taking my car out on our roads that look like that...just to get out of the house and drive off some tension...but just now I heard a ruckus out in the street...there were 2 ambulances, 2 sheriff cars and another neighbor...we are being nosy, and 2 EMT's brought out a stretcher w/my neighbor a man 40 something...the EMT's were in full on Hazmat suits, then out came the wife on a stretcher, again Hazmat suits, and we asked a neighbor on the other side and he said they both tested positive for the virus. Wonder why the cops??...Yep, it feels pretty serious all the sudden...bet their house is not 40 yards away from me....


Stay safe, Maggie.
Soon, most of us will have been exposed to this. The odds are still great for survival.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Toddrickfl1 said:


> This is my ride home, this is usually bumper to bumper traffic. It feels really ominous.
> View attachment 290065


You can tell the difference here.
But it sure doesn't look like there's been a stay at home order in effect.


----------



## Toddrickfl1

ZEROPILOT said:


> You can tell the difference here.
> But it sure doesn't look like there's been a stay at home order in effect.


My best friend in Broward does pools. So he's been lucky enough to still have a job. He said that a lot of people in Broward aren't really taking it seriously but Dade is a different story. He said Miami is empty and completely closed down.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

I just found out that my across the street neighbor, his wife and 2 teenage kids have literally been inside for 2 weeks.
He sells CLARKE shoes at a mall in Miami. So they have no income. They had no PPE and ran out of toilet paper, so we made them a care package with some of our spare stuff.
Hopefully itll end up being spare stuff.
But it felt good to pay it forward.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Toddrickfl1 said:


> My best friend in Broward does pools. So he's been lucky enough to still have a job. He said that a lot of people in Broward aren't really taking it seriously but Dade is a different story. He said Miami is empty and completely closed down.


Miami beach is arresting people out without masks.
Broward is a little less strict for sure.
I see plenty of people with no PPE of any kind acting like it's just a regular, normal day.
I haven't been near the beach lately, but I'm sure it'd be a mess.


----------



## Toddrickfl1

ZEROPILOT said:


> I just found out that my across the street neighbor, his wife and 2 teenage kids have literally been inside for 2 weeks.
> He sells CLARKE shoes at a mall in Miami. So they have no income. They had no PPE and ran out of toilet paper, so we made them a care package with some of our spare stuff.
> Hopefully itll end up being spare stuff.
> But it felt good to pay it forward.


I made up a ton of hand sanitizer and I've been giving it to people who need some on nextdoor.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Toddrickfl1 said:


> I made up a ton of hand sanitizer and I've been giving it to people who need some on nextdoor.


I still haven't made any.
I have a few dollar store bottles of the real stuff. Plus a few tubes of Lysol wipes.
(A few less now)
I have plans and the ingredients to make my own stuff soon.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

I found two kinds of ALOE BURN CREAM. It's pure Aloe.
One was the consistancy of jelly. That would've been perfect to mix with alcohol.
But the type I got was the gel that is already the consistency of hand sanitizer. So once I ad the 60% alcohol, I'll end up with a watery mix.


----------



## Toddrickfl1

ZEROPILOT said:


> I found two kinds of ALOE BURN CREAM. It's pure Aloe.
> One was the consistancy of jelly. That would've been perfect to mix with alcohol.
> But the type I got was the gel that is already the consistency of hand sanitizer. So once I ad the 60% alcohol, I'll end up with a watery mix.


As long as it works.


----------



## Cathie G

ZEROPILOT said:


> You can tell the difference here.
> But it sure doesn't look like there's been a stay at home order in effect.


Same here. People are even standing in long lines together to buy their essentials. Wrapped around the building. But only 50 people allowed in the store at one time including the staff. That just doesn't make any sense to me at all.


----------



## Cathie G

ZEROPILOT said:


> I found two kinds of ALOE BURN CREAM. It's pure Aloe.
> One was the consistancy of jelly. That would've been perfect to mix with alcohol.
> But the type I got was the gel that is already the consistency of hand sanitizer. So once I ad the 60% alcohol, I'll end up with a watery mix.


Use a little spritzer bottle then.? My son carries one with alcohol. He's terribly allergic to any kind of mites including ants. That's what helps him. Also , I think the gels are just to add an emoliant to your skin.


----------



## Yvonne G

I've been real nervous about going into town tomorrow to shop, so I decided to give grocery-shopping-online a try. I usually go to Smart and Final for produce, then to Savemart for 'me' groceries, but for ease of shopping, I did all of it at Smart and Final. Some of my normal things weren't available, but I can do without, and I ended up spending just a bit more than normal. Delivery won't be until Saturday, so that means Friday will be a no feed day unless I can find plenty of weeds to feed the tortoises. I'll still have to go to the post office to pick up my mail, but I can avoid people there, so don't feel quite so nervous about that, and I can go real early in the a.m. to avoid people. I've never grocery shopped online before, but hopefully I can figure out how to just 'ditto' this week's order for next week.

Do any of you grocery shop online? How's that work out for you?


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Alcohol is something I haven't seen anywhere since this all began.
It's more rare than toilet paper.


----------



## Yvonne G

ZEROPILOT said:


> Alcohol is something I haven't seen anywhere since this all began.
> It's more rare than toilet paper.


I was able to order two 4-roll packs of T-paper online, but the only brand they had available was Charmin, and I usually buy cheaper than that. Oh well.


----------



## Maro2Bear

maggie18fan said:


> I had been taking my car out on our roads that look like that...just to get out of the house and drive off some tension...but just now I heard a ruckus out in the street...there were 2 ambulances, 2 sheriff cars and another neighbor...we are being nosy, and 2 EMT's brought out a stretcher w/my neighbor a man 40 something...the EMT's were in full on Hazmat suits, then out came the wife on a stretcher, again Hazmat suits, and we asked a neighbor on the other side and he said they both tested positive for the virus. Wonder why the cops??...Yep, it feels pretty serious all the sudden...bet their house is not 40 yards away from me....



Scary stuff. Maybe.....since they tested positive it was mandated for them both to be evacuated. Some folks don’t want to go...police there to enforce the hospitalization. /just guessing/


----------



## Maro2Bear

Yvonne G said:


> I've been real nervous about going into town tomorrow to shop, so I decided to give grocery-shopping-online a try. I usually go to Smart and Final for produce, then to Savemart for 'me' groceries, but for ease of shopping, I did all of it at Smart and Final. Some of my normal things weren't available, but I can do without, and I ended up spending just a bit more than normal. Delivery won't be until Saturday, so that means Friday will be a no feed day unless I can find plenty of weeds to feed the tortoises. I'll still have to go to the post office to pick up my mail, but I can avoid people there, so don't feel quite so nervous about that, and I can go real early in the a.m. to avoid people. I've never grocery shopped online before, but hopefully I can figure out how to just 'ditto' this week's order for next week.
> 
> Do any of you grocery shop online? How's that work out for you?



Since the lockdown, we havent been out shopping at any stores. We have placed orders with Sams Club (Plus membership gets free shipping) as well as WalMart (free shipping on orders greater than $35). We order mostly dry goods, beans, rice, powder milk, condiments, coffee, ant traps. No green produce. Free delivery to the front 
porch is super convenient.


----------



## SPILL

Toddrickfl1 said:


> My best friend in Broward does pools. So he's been lucky enough to still have a job.


Since an untreated pool is considered a biohazard I knew we would still be able to do service but I'm pleasantly surprised that while the state is under stay at home orders I've been ale to get building permits from five separate municipalities. 

Ask your friend to compare the ingredients of quat-based algaecides and sanitary wipes. I've had people buying quarts and turning them into gallons.


----------



## Cathie G

Yvonne G said:


> I've been real nervous about going into town tomorrow to shop, so I decided to give grocery-shopping-online a try. I usually go to Smart and Final for produce, then to Savemart for 'me' groceries, but for ease of shopping, I did all of it at Smart and Final. Some of my normal things weren't available, but I can do without, and I ended up spending just a bit more than normal. Delivery won't be until Saturday, so that means Friday will be a no feed day unless I can find plenty of weeds to feed the tortoises. I'll still have to go to the post office to pick up my mail, but I can avoid people there, so don't feel quite so nervous about that, and I can go real early in the a.m. to avoid people. I've never grocery shopped online before, but hopefully I can figure out how to just 'ditto' this week's order for next week.
> 
> Do any of you grocery shop online? How's that work out for you?


I had to order canvas online and pick up at the store for Joe. I haven't tried that for groceries yet. My advice is order now because that service is so overwhelmed it takes several days here. My niece is a Joann fabrics manager which is where I got the canvas. She said there's only herself and a coworker to answer the phone when you pick-up. The two are filling the orders. Plus all the phone calls coming in. She said they're overwhelmed. They sent me an email 24 hours after I ordered that it was ready. It took me several phone calls before I could get through to let them know I was there. I can just imagine what grocery stores are dealing with. I hate it but I can't stand in line for hours either. So I'll grin and bear it.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

I've been going out about once every 2 days to get local restaurant food and to walk.
But now I wear gloves and a mask.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Man
Every time I turn on the news, they're talking about the Albany Georgia virus situation.
Mom is still ok.
But now her cellphone charge cord is malfunctioning and I haven't heard from her much for the last week or so.
One of the CNAs are going to buy her a cord tomorrow.
Her voice is hardly there and a lot of what she says is nonsense. But talking makes us both feel better. Even when she calls at 3 AM because she thinks its 3 PM to tell me about how she spent the day with a long since dead relative. Etc.


----------



## Toddrickfl1

Just lost my job. Got layed off.


----------



## Maro2Bear

Toddrickfl1 said:


> Just lost my job. Got layed off.



Man,,that sucks big time. Hang in there!


----------



## Yvonne G

Toddrickfl1 said:


> Just lost my job. Got layed off.


That's very hard. I'm sorry. I hate to be all doom and gloom, but I'm thinking it's going to get worse before it gets better. Whatever you do, don't go stand in line directly next to all those others who are waiting in line to file for unemployment. Try to stay away from the germs. What kind of work did you do?


----------



## Toddrickfl1

Yvonne G said:


> That's very hard. I'm sorry. I hate to be all doom and gloom, but I'm thinking it's going to get worse before it gets better. Whatever you do, don't go stand in line directly next to all those others who are waiting in line to file for unemployment. Try to stay away from the germs. What kind of work did you do?


I do warehouse work. This is actually the second time I've been laid off in the past 2 years! I've only been with this company a short period of time and I kind of saw this coming. It has been getting slower and slower every day and they already cut our pay. I should be eligible for unemployment. I've already filed online a little while ago. If that comes thru I'll be ok. It's honestly probably for the better. My 87 year old grandmother lives with me and I've been really scared I'll catch it and bring it home to her.


----------



## Maggie3fan

ZEROPILOT said:


> I've been going out about once every 2 days to get local restaurant food and to walk.
> But now I wear gloves and a mask.


All the gloves do is collect bacteria on them and are really a bad deal...carry hand sanitizer with you...be careful of what you touch and just spray your hands as you go...don't touch your face, (I have long hair and am constantly tucking it behind a ear). be very aware of what you touch, think about it first, and spray spray and spray...much better than gloves...and please think about your car door handle, and the steering wheel, your keys...your credit card, don't use money, spray the keypad, your hands and the card...and...most of all...stay safe and don't get stressed out... ? today we will hit the 70's for the first time in 6 months...I will wash and wax my car...yippeeee and let tortoises out


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Toddrickfl1 said:


> Just lost my job. Got layed off.


Man.
Sorry to hear that.
But you are so not alone


----------



## ZEROPILOT

maggie18fan said:


> All the gloves do is collect bacteria on them and are really a bad deal...carry hand sanitizer with you...be careful of what you touch and just spray your hands as you go...don't touch your face, (I have long hair and am constantly tucking it behind a ear). be very aware of what you touch, think about it first, and spray spray and spray...much better than gloves...and please think about your car door handle, and the steering wheel, your keys...your credit card, don't use money, spray the keypad, your hands and the card...and...most of all...stay safe and don't get stressed out... ? today we will hit the 70's for the first time in 6 months...I will wash and wax my car...yippeeee and let tortoises out


I've noticed that I touch my face like a million times a day.


----------



## Maggie3fan

Toddrickfl1 said:


> I do warehouse work. This is actually the second time I've been laid off in the past 2 years! I've only been with this company a short period of time and I kind of saw this coming. It has been getting slower and slower every day and they already cut our pay. I should be eligible for unemployment. I've already filed online a little while ago. If that comes thru I'll be ok. It's honestly probably for the better. My 87 year old grandmother lives with me and I've been really scared I'll catch it and bring it home to her.


Oh man, I am so sorry about your job...but so glad and proud the you are caring for your gramma...what a loving thing you are doing for her....


----------



## ZEROPILOT

I was just trolling Ebay and found 5 liter bottles of 99.9% alcohol for about $14.
More than four vendors had some.
I ordered 2 bottles.
If you need any, go to Ebay and search 99.9% alcohol.
I'm kind of surprised to see any available.
I'm kind of waiting for an Email saying it's backordered.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Yvonne G said:


> That's very hard. I'm sorry. I hate to be all doom and gloom, but I'm thinking it's going to get worse before it gets better. Whatever you do, don't go stand in line directly next to all those others who are waiting in line to file for unemployment. Try to stay away from the germs. What kind of work did you do?


It's not all doom and gloom.
It's what we make out of this mess.
If the APEX of this virus is still 2 to 3 weeks away. Then the end of it would be 2 or 3 months after that....
Simple math.
But I'm a realist. I'm thinking that right after the apex, when new cases start to plummet, there will be masses headed back out prematurely to resume normal life. Maybe ushering in another full blown episode.
At some point, the masses are just going to say to Hell with all of this.


----------



## KarenSoCal

ZEROPILOT said:


> It's not all doom and gloom.
> It's what we make out of this mess.
> If the APEX of this virus is still 2 to 3 weeks away. Then the end of it would be 2 or 3 months after that....
> Simple math.
> But I'm a realist. I'm thinking that right after the apex, when new cases start to plummet, there will be masses headed back out prematurely to resume normal life. Maybe ushering in another full blown episode.
> At some point, the masses are just going to say to Hell with all of this.


I am so convinced that you're correct! The officials in my county have just made it mandatory that masks of some kind be worn when in public. It's OK if just a bandanna is tied over mouth and nose. Not wearing something is punishable by a fine of up to $1000., and/or jail time.

You would think we had to be in body casts from the reactions! "They are getting us ready for martial law!" We're losing all our personal freedoms!" "They will be coming to our houses and dragging us out!" "I'm not wearing a mask! And just let 'em try to arrest me!"

Not one of those idiots realizes how serious this is, and many people here just thumb their noses at these precautions. They are too stupid to understand that the precautions are here to try to protect their sorry a***s.

I truly am heartbroken for the small business owners and all of the people who have lost jobs. But I have no empathy for these whiners who take to the streets shouting "I have rights!" They don't seem to get it that their refusal to cooperate is exactly why these measures must be mandatory. Or those who hide behind their computers complaining how the government and official agencies have screwed up. They haven't been perfect, but no one has ever had to try to handle a contagion quite like this before.

I am high risk to get this virus, and I am very high likelihood to die of it if I get it. If someone's rights are violated a bit to keep millions of folks like me healthy, so be it.

Off my soapbox...


----------



## EllieMay

Cathie G said:


> That's ok...they'll just get used to getting back to their usual selves. They might even have a pillow fight behind your back for fun...


I don’t know Cathie.... Cinder spends every minute with me now.. it was bad before, but now I don’t even pee alone! She’s in my lap, in the Sidexside, asleep on my feet, etc.... the big dogs aren’t much better... when I’m outside working or playing, they are not outta sight!


----------



## EllieMay

Pistachio's Pamperer said:


> Zero:: that’s why I have become the queen of the reload. Lol Yes, it’s an expensive hobby, but I “let” him do that and he “lets” me have the tortoise and my cars. LMAO Hoping to sneak a turtle in when he’s not looking.
> 
> Tom:: Exactly. Thank you. I have found more ppl on here that I “jive” with than IRL.
> 
> -Meg


I think you and I could be friends;-) I dont believe that there are many types of guns that we don’t have in our home... I have always been a sportsman as my dads only child... and my hubby really got into the assault type weapons. As we have gotten older, our collection has outgrown our spaces.. the ammo room may require extra floor support!


----------



## EllieMay

Yvonne G said:


> My daughter has a very slow growing lymphoma. Found out about it about a year or so ago. She works in an elementary school cafeteria, and they prepare 1000 meals a day, with 2000 on Thursdays because they're off Fridays. Even though school is not in session, they still provide the free meals.
> 
> I've asked her a couple times if she wanted a few masks, as I have several that I bought for dust protection. She always says no. But this a.m. I got an email from her saying she has finally realized how serious this covid-19 thing is and she has emailed to her boss that after spring break she won't be going back to work, but rather she'll be sheltering at home.
> 
> My female kitten needs to have her spay surgery stitches removed, but I can't do it without an extra set of hands to hold her still. Until my daughter has been home for two weeks with no symptoms, I don't want to ask her (she's been in contact with all those germy school children), and I'm not friendly with my neighbors. There IS an 83 year old neighbor across the street from me, but she lives with her son and his wife, who are still going out into the germy world. I never ever thought I would be in a situation like this. Even way back in the 40s when my mom had polio and our house was quarantined with a big red sign on the door, it wasn't like this.



I had to take Reese’s back for for her last vet check after the big surgery. She was able to get her stitches out too. The laser therapy helped the healing go much faster.. at any rate, they came and got her from the truck and brought her back so we didn’t violate the social distancing law. The vet techs were also fully suited up. Maybe your vet could protect you in that way if you can’t get some help? Wish I was closer!


----------



## EllieMay

I got a notice that my auto insurance is refunding 15% of the yearly premium due to decreased driving... thankful for the little things!


----------



## Maggie3fan

maggie18fan said:


> Oh man, I am so sorry about your job...but so glad and proud the you are caring for your gramma...what a loving thing you are doing for her....





ZEROPILOT said:


> I've been going out about once every 2 days to get local restaurant food and to walk.
> But now I wear gloves and a mask.


This just


KarenSoCal said:


> I am so convinced that you're correct! The officials in my county have just made it mandatory that masks of some kind be worn when in public. It's OK if just a bandanna is tied over mouth and nose. Not wearing something is punishable by a fine of up to $1000., and/or jail time.
> 
> You would think we had to be in body casts from the reactions! "They are getting us ready for martial law!" We're losing all our personal freedoms!" "They will be coming to our houses and dragging us out!" "I'm not wearing a mask! And just let 'em try to arrest me!"
> 
> Not one of those idiots realizes how serious this is, and many people here just thumb their noses at these precautions. They are too stupid to understand that the precautions are here to try to protect their sorry a***s.
> 
> I truly am heartbroken for the small business owners and all of the people who have lost jobs. But I have no empathy for these whiners who take to the streets shouting "I have rights!" They don't seem to get it that their refusal to cooperate is exactly why these measures must be mandatory. Or those who hide behind their computers complaining how the government and official agencies have screwed up. They haven't been perfect, but no one has ever had to try to handle a contagion quite like this before.
> 
> I am high risk to get this virus, and I am very high likelihood to die of it if I get it. If someone's rights are violated a bit to keep millions of folks like me healthy, so be it.
> 
> Off my soapbox...


Get back on your soap box...damn that was well said...
Like you, I am at high risk...it is written...I will either die from complications from the virus or chronic kidney failure...so this 'rebel without a cause' wore an N95 face mask for my last supply run. I'm limiting myself to Safeway and Home Depot...if they don't have it, I don't need it...anyhow...I wore the mask...and felt like a freakin idiot...but that and hand sanitizer might just save mine or someone else's life...and toilet paper...


----------



## Markw84

maggie18fan said:


> This just
> 
> Get back on your soap box...damn that was well said...
> Like you, I am at high risk...it is written...I will either die from complications from the virus or chronic kidney failure...so this 'rebel without a cause' wore an N95 face mask for my last supply run. I'm limiting myself to Safeway and Home Depot...if they don't have it, I don't need it...anyhow...I wore the mask...and felt like a freakin idiot...but that and hand sanitizer might just save mine or someone else's life...and toilet paper...



The primary reason for the mask is to protect others, not yourself. The individual who feels they have the right to risk catching this if they want to, does not get it. We are finding more and more out about this virus. It is becoming apparent it is about 3x - 6x more contagious than any influenza virus we've seen. For every confirmed case there are reasonably another 3 or more asymptomatic individuals who have it and do not know it. They are the "typhoid Mary's". No clue you have it, but extremely contagious. By wearing a mask, you dramatically reduce the chance you could possibly spread it to others when out and about.

Kind of like your right to carry a gun. I believe in that whole-heartedly. But I do not believe you have the right to shoot it into a crowd indiscriminately.


----------



## Pistachio's Pamperer

EllieMay said:


> I think you and I could be friends;-)


EllieMay:: I have thought that myself.  I just haven't been on much lately because work is crazy right now and my days are 12-16hrs long. I have had problems just reading along let alone being able to string a coherent sentence together.
-Meg


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Locally we've been told that only health care workers can have the N95 masks.
I'm half way waiting for the "men in black" to roll up onto my lawn and snatch ours off at gunpoint.
I've been steaming and alcohol spraying the few that we have for re-use


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Markw84 said:


> The primary reason for the mask is to protect others, not yourself. The individual who feels they have the right to risk catching this if they want to, does not get it. We are finding more and more out about this virus. It is becoming apparent it is about 3x - 6x more contagious than any influenza virus we've seen. For every confirmed case there are reasonably another 3 or more asymptomatic individuals who have it and do not know it. They are the "typhoid Mary's". No clue you have it, but extremely contagious. By wearing a mask, you dramatically reduce the chance you could possibly spread it to others when out and about.
> 
> Kind of like your right to carry a gun. I believe in that whole-heartedly. But I do not believe you have the right to shoot it into a crowd indiscriminately.


Well said


----------



## Maro2Bear

maggie18fan said:


> This just
> 
> Get back on your soap box...damn that was well said...
> Like you, I am at high risk...it is written...I will either die from complications from the virus or chronic kidney failure...so this 'rebel without a cause' wore an N95 face mask for my last supply run. I'm limiting myself to Safeway and Home Depot...if they don't have it, I don't need it...anyhow...I wore the mask...and felt like a freakin idiot...but that and hand sanitizer might just save mine or someone else's life...and toilet paper...



We made a quick run to our Lidl grocery store just around the corner. Pretty much everyone was wearing masks and gloves. I stayed in our car, wifey shopped. I think we got everything we we needed. Our fridge was basically empty, no fruit or fresh vegg or onions or potatoes or greens. First time we’ve been out “shopping” in two weeks. So, good for a few more weeks.

I heard on local radio, possible lock down condition through end of June. .That sounds like a long time.


----------



## Cathie G

EllieMay said:


> I don’t know Cathie.... Cinder spends every minute with me now.. it was bad before, but now I don’t even pee alone! She’s in my lap, in the Sidexside, asleep on my feet, etc.... the big dogs aren’t much better... when I’m outside working or playing, they are not outta sight!


Sometimes I have to walk around the house with a bunny literally attached to my leg...but she won't allow me to hold her or sit on my lap. She is usually around my feet though. Is there a term for foot bunny? Like a lap dog? Love sweet love.


----------



## Cathie G

maggie18fan said:


> All the gloves do is collect bacteria on them and are really a bad deal...carry hand sanitizer with you...be careful of what you touch and just spray your hands as you go...don't touch your face, (I have long hair and am constantly tucking it behind a ear). be very aware of what you touch, think about it first, and spray spray and spray...much better than gloves...and please think about your car door handle, and the steering wheel, your keys...your credit card, don't use money, spray the keypad, your hands and the card...and...most of all...stay safe and don't get stressed out... ? today we will hit the 70's for the first time in 6 months...I will wash and wax my car...yippeeee and let tortoises out


Yes. I have never understood how gloves can protect anyone if virus can go through a porcelain filter. It's best to wash your hands or use hand sanitizer if you can't. Hope you and your tortoises had a blast.


----------



## Blackdog1714

I have a 4’ metal fence in front yard the runs right beside the sidewalk. Years ago I mounted my lockable mailbox so that the mail carrier wouldn’t have to do more than stop and turn to put the mail in the box. To be a good neighbor I use my 1 gallon sprayer filled with Chlorhexadine mix to spray down the fence and mailbox daily! So said for all the folks loosing jobs- I am on 12’s now due to added assignments


----------



## ZEROPILOT

So, the mandatory wearing of masks in public is pretty much everywhere now?
If so, have you also been prohibited from wearing the "better" type masks?


----------



## Cathie G

Blackdog1714 said:


> I have a 4’ metal fence in front yard the runs right beside the sidewalk. Years ago I mounted my lockable mailbox so that the mail carrier wouldn’t have to do more than stop and turn to put the mail in the box. To be a good neighbor I use my 1 gallon sprayer filled with Chlorhexadine mix to spray down the fence and mailbox daily! So said for all the folks loosing jobs- I am on 12’s now due to added assignments


Yep. Essential service people deserve a great big THANKS!??. And even the office workers trying to get the benefits out so that families can deal with no money coming. Oh by the by, I didn't take your Christmas card down yet...


----------



## KarenSoCal

ZEROPILOT said:


> So, the mandatory wearing of masks in public is pretty much everywhere now?
> If so, have you also been prohibited from wearing the "better" type masks?


Ed, I have not seen anything prohibiting wearing N95 masks if you already own them. No one has asked the public to turn over their masks to be given to health care workers. The only news I've seen in that regards is people who have hoarded vast quantities of them, like the guy in Baltimore who had a million masks plus other supplies in his house. Authorities did confiscate those.

Why wouldn't people be allowed to wear them? I believe we are not supposed to buy them. It's true that the mandates should say that, and they don't. But how is a mask in your tool shed going to help first responders? Seems to me it can only help you.


----------



## Blackdog1714

In Virginia We have code 18.2-422 that includes ---(b) the declaration of a disaster or state of emergency by the Governor in response to a public health emergency where the emergency declaration expressly waives this section, defines the mask appropriate for the emergency, and provides for the duration of the waiver. The violation of any provisions of this section is a Class 6 felony.-- Very surprising that our lawmakers saw into the future when this was last updated in 2014. Honestly even without that clause you might get into trouble IF YOU DON'T WEAR A MASK IN PUBLIC! Again the primary reason for the mask is particle transmission which is a two way street- CIVID-19 positive emit it into the air (cough/sneeze) and no + inhale it. Washing hands is the other key to this system, hand sanitizer may kill the COVID-19, but frequent & dilligent hand washing physically removes it from your skin. ALSO the State of VA has now warned all hospitals to not hoard N-95 masks


----------



## Toddrickfl1

I found some old N95 masks I used to cut the grass. I've been wearing them when I go out and carrying a bottle of hand sanitizer.


----------



## Toddrickfl1

Apparently I'm going to be making close to 4,000 dollars a month on unemployment? That doesn't make sense to me at all. There's not much incentive to go looking for a job lol


----------



## mark1

hopefully it gets you through until this straightens out , that money won't last as long as you may think ….. spend it , it'll help more than giving it to bureaucrats ….. I have no idea how the virus part plays out , but I believe the financial part is going to get a lot worse before it improves …...…….. I read today a 15yr old boy , a member of a remote Amazonian tribe has died from covid 19 ……….. I initially thought this would be good "practice" for when a serious virus becomes a pandemic , seems I was wrong , this doesn't appear to be practice ………… hopefully this highlights the downfalls to globalism and dependence on your neighbors …….. if you got a great neighbor , helps you with everything , every time you need it , when it comes down to their family or yours , reality is their for theirs and hopefully your for yours , it's human nature , actually animal nature ………. seems common sense , but you know what they say about common sense ……...


----------



## Yvonne G

ZEROPILOT said:


> So, the mandatory wearing of masks in public is pretty much everywhere now?
> If so, have you also been prohibited from wearing the "better" type masks?


Yes, they're even encouraging us to make masks out of cloth and save the store bought ones for hospital workers, etc.

I wonder his passenger had been wearing a mask this bus driver would not have died: A bus driver in Detroit posted a video on social video saying, ""I feel violated. I feel violated for the folks that were on the bus when this happened," Jason Hargrove said in a Facebook video about a passenger's not covering her mouth when coughing. Mr. Hargrove died two weeks later of the corona virus.


----------



## Maggie3fan

Yvonne G said:


> Yes, they're even encouraging us to make masks out of cloth and save the store bought ones for hospital workers, etc.
> 
> I wonder his passenger had been wearing a mask this bus driver would not have died: A bus driver in Detroit posted a video on social video saying, ""I feel violated. I feel violated for the folks that were on the bus when this happened," Jason Hargrove said in a Facebook video about a passenger's not covering her mouth when coughing. Mr. Hargrove died two weeks later of the corona virus.


I use the N95 masks...They fog up my glasses and I feel like a freakin idiot....personally i don't care about not infecting anyone else...I am now out for me and me only...I just bought 2 (two) 12 rolls t-paper...I am now safe...( ? )


----------



## Yvonne G

maggie18fan said:


> I use the N95 masks...They fog up my glasses and I feel like a freakin idiot....personally i don't care about not infecting anyone else...I am now out for me and me only...I just bought 2 (two) 12 rolls t-paper...I am now safe...( ? )


I can't seem to get enough oxygen breathing through a mask. My daughter came over yesterday morning to help me remove my kitten's spay surgery stitches (she had been avoiding coming over so as to not expose me to anything she may have picked up at her work in the school cafeteria), and I wore a mask. I had to remove it because I couldn't seem to breathe properly.


----------



## Pistachio's Pamperer

Amid coronavirus, Navajo Nation to go under 57-hour weekend curfew starting 8 p.m. Friday


The latest order by the Navajo Department of Health sets a curfew from 8 p.m. April 10 to 5 a.m. April 13 on the reservation during the coronavirus.



www.daily-times.com





*Amid coronavirus, Navajo Nation to go under 57-hour weekend curfew starting 8 p.m. Friday*

Just FYI. And these pictures look all nice-nice, but the National Guard is there and other "unidentified military personnel". I can't get into further details based on my job, but "freight" isn't being allowed in.

-Meg


----------



## Yvonne G

oh for cripe's sake! I just read on the 4ocean site that people are discarding their used masks and gloves on the ground. What the heck is wrong with people?


----------



## Maro2Bear

Yvonne G said:


> oh for cripe's sake! I just read on the 4ocean site that people are discarding their used masks and gloves on the ground. What the heck is wrong with people?



While I waited for wifey to finish up grocery shopping yesterday, I saw three shoppers toss their disposable gloves into the air. It was really windy, they just blew off to Delaware i guess!


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Toddrickfl1 said:


> Apparently I'm going to be making close to 4,000 dollars a month on unemployment? That doesn't make sense to me at all. There's not much incentive to go looking for a job lol


That's quite a bit more than I would've expected, too


----------



## ZEROPILOT

The wonderful and wise folks in charge....
Governor Desantis and our bugeyed Superintendent Runcie have called my wife back in to work this Monday and Wednesday.
Apparently SHE is the CANARY in the coal mine.


----------



## Maro2Bear

Pistachio's Pamperer said:


> Amid coronavirus, Navajo Nation to go under 57-hour weekend curfew starting 8 p.m. Friday
> 
> 
> The latest order by the Navajo Department of Health sets a curfew from 8 p.m. April 10 to 5 a.m. April 13 on the reservation during the coronavirus.
> 
> 
> 
> www.daily-times.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Amid coronavirus, Navajo Nation to go under 57-hour weekend curfew starting 8 p.m. Friday*
> 
> Just FYI. And these pictures look all nice-nice, but the National Guard is there and other "unidentified military personnel". I can't get into further details based on my job, but "freight" isn't being allowed in.
> 
> -Meg



So, is Navajo Nation all around Gallup? It’s a close knit community, so i could see the cv spreading easily....and zi know there are some super secret facilities in & about NM. Can’t have everyone in critical positions calling in sick!


----------



## Maro2Bear

ZEROPILOT said:


> The wonderful and wise folks in charge....
> Governor Desantis and our bugeyed Superintendent Runcie have called my wife back in to work this Monday and Wednesday.
> Apparently SHE is the CANARY in the coal mine.



I still don’t understand Desantis’ position on “church” attendance (let alone the beaches).


----------



## Pistachio's Pamperer

Window Rock is actually the "capital" which is a little ways from Gallup. And I am about 2-3 hours from there. But the reservation hits three of the four corner states. 
Actually this is one of those situations where wikipedia is pretty accurate and concise and shows a pretty descent picture of where the nation is and explains a lot of other things. 








Navajo Nation - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





As for the why.. lets just say there have been a lot of lies and misleading info..

-Meg


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Maro2Bear said:


> I still don’t understand Desantis’ position on “church” attendance (let alone the beaches).


He's taking a "hands off" approach like the ORANGE ONE to limit his level of blame.
Every day there is a news conference from the Governor of New York.
Yet locally we have almost no information or leadership from ours.


----------



## Cathie G

KarenSoCal said:


> Ed, I have not seen anything prohibiting wearing N95 masks if you already own them. No one has asked the public to turn over their masks to be given to health care workers. The only news I've seen in that regards is people who have hoarded vast quantities of them, like the guy in Baltimore who had a million masks plus other supplies in his house. Authorities did confiscate those.
> 
> Why wouldn't people be allowed to wear them? I believe we are not supposed to buy them. It's true that the mandates should say that, and they don't. But how is a mask in your tool shed going to help first responders? Seems to me it can only help you.


I can't use those type of masks and most of the other less effective. They make me sick from breathing my own co2. I'll have to drag out my sewing machine and make my own.


----------



## Cathie G

ZEROPILOT said:


> Man
> Every time I turn on the news, they're talking about the Albany Georgia virus situation.
> Mom is still ok.
> But now her cellphone charge cord is malfunctioning and I haven't heard from her much for the last week or so.
> One of the CNAs are going to buy her a cord tomorrow.
> Her voice is hardly there and a lot of what she says is nonsense. But talking makes us both feel better. Even when she calls at 3 AM because she thinks its 3 PM to tell me about how she spent the day with a long since dead relative. Etc.


I used to be a home health aide and really enjoyed the elderly even when they talk a bit of nonsense. They would in some small way let me know they recognized me. Your mom knows it's you. She's just carrying on a conversation with her son. That means the world to a mother especially in her old age even if she can't quite say it right.


----------



## Bee62

Maro2Bear said:


> While I waited for wifey to finish up grocery shopping yesterday, I saw three shoppers toss their disposable gloves into the air. It was really windy, they just blew off to Delaware i guess!


Some people get mad at brain ( if it exists ! ) with the corona virus.....


----------



## mark1

if a kid living a thousand miles from a road dies from covid , realistically what are the odds of someone living in a country where everyone lives on a road , minutes away from a city where folks are living 10,000-50,000 people per square mile , not getting exposed ? personally I think you'd need to be a very optimistic person to believe you were not going to get exposed before this is over ……… I think i'm a realist , often mistaken for a pessimist …….

*Sewage analysis suggests a New England metro area with fewer than 500 COVID-19 cases may have exponentially more*









Sewage analysis suggests a New England metro area with fewer than 500 COVID-19 cases may have exponentially more


Analysis of sewage in a New England metro area suggest COVID-19 cases are much higher than previously reported.




abcnews.go.com






is it odd the united states has 42% of the confirmed covid cases in the world , and a 3.8% death rate , as compared to the rest of the world with 58% of the confirmed cases and a 7.1% death rate ? makes me think the rest of the world might be surprised at their real case numbers …….


----------



## ZEROPILOT

mark1 said:


> if a kid living a thousand miles from a road dies from covid , realistically what are the odds of someone living in a country where everyone lives on a road , minutes away from a city where folks are living 10,000-50,000 people per square mile , not getting exposed ? personally I think you'd need to be a very optimistic person to believe you were not going to get exposed before this is over ……… I think i'm a realist , often mistaken for a pessimist …….
> 
> *Sewage analysis suggests a New England metro area with fewer than 500 COVID-19 cases may have exponentially more*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sewage analysis suggests a New England metro area with fewer than 500 COVID-19 cases may have exponentially more
> 
> 
> Analysis of sewage in a New England metro area suggest COVID-19 cases are much higher than previously reported.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> abcnews.go.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> is it odd the united states has 42% of the confirmed covid cases in the world , and a 3.8% death rate , as compared to the rest of the world with 58% of the confirmed cases and a 7.1% death rate ? makes me think the rest of the world might be surprised at their real case numbers …….


If Texas A&M is correct. We are currently in stage two of a five stage pandemic. 
So, realistically, many of us will indeed be exposed eventually.
However, I'm more optimistic. Since the number of deaths is known. And the number of the truly infected is still not. I'm hoping the death rate percentage ends up being lower. Of course that will have no bearing on the number of deaths. 
I'm just thinking that the infected number will end up being higher when this is over and we know more.


----------



## Warren

ZEROPILOT said:


> If Texas A&M is correct. We are currently in stage two of a five stage pandemic.
> So, realistically, many of us will indeed be exposed eventually.
> However, I'm more optimistic. Since the number of deaths is known. And the number of the truly infected is still not. I'm hoping the death rate percentage ends up being lower. Of course that will have no bearing on the number of deaths.
> I'm just thinking that the infected number will end up being higher when this is over and we know more.


Just was informed of my nextdoor neighbor who has the Covid 19, my neighbor works at a hospital. His wife is retired and is always out wearing no PPE, she has the virus. He was told not to return to work for a least two weeks. I will keep my distance and I informed most of my other neighbors. Be SAFE


----------



## ZEROPILOT

So, some states have curfews.
Others also have LIQUOR curfews.
Some of this crap smells of social experimentation for sure


----------



## Warren

Warren said:


> Just was informed of my nextdoor neighbor who has the Covid 19, my neighbor works at a hospital. His wife is retired and is always out wearing no PPE, she has the virus. He was told not to return to work for a least two weeks. I will keep my distance and I informed most of my other neighbors. Be SAFE


Just wanted everyone to know how important it is to wear PPE when you leave your house. About my neighbor who is supposed to self quarantine for two week because of his wife having Covid 19, I seen him leaving his house twice today. Was not wearing any PPE, so you would thing he would take every precaution not to spread it but I guess he just dont care. So be careful and take every precaution to protect youself. If he wants to keep going out, maybe I should inform the Heath Dept. I'm sure they will give him a ride.


----------



## Toddrickfl1

I may have found something to occupy my time. There's a place called Yellow River Game Ranch by my house. It's kind of like a miniature zoo. It's not open now but I went down there and talked to someone about possibly volunteering there. Waiting to hear back from the owner.


----------



## Maggie3fan

Warren said:


> Just wanted everyone to know how important it is to wear PPE when you leave your house. About my neighbor who is supposed to self quarantine for two week because of his wife having Covid 19, I seen him leaving his house twice today. Was not wearing any PPE, so you would thing he would take every precaution not to spread it but I guess he just dont care. So be careful and take every precaution to protect youself. If he wants to keep going out, maybe I should inform the Heath Dept. I'm sure they will give him a ride.





Warren said:


> Just wanted everyone to know how important it is to wear PPE when you leave your house. About my neighbor who is supposed to self quarantine for two week because of his wife having Covid 19, I seen him leaving his house twice today. Was not wearing any PPE, so you would thing he would take every precaution not to spread it but I guess he just dont care. So be careful and take every precaution to protect youself. If he wants to keep going out, maybe I should inform the Heath Dept. I'm sure they will give him a ride.


What the hell is PPE???When i go out I wear an N95 mask and carry hand sanitizer...I only go out once a week for supplies...I come in close contact with no one...it's more fun to stay home around my animals then go to town to the hoarding and tension....home is more fun for me..




__





Watch







www.facebook.com




well, obviously I can't copy a link...sorry


----------



## Maggie3fan

Toddrickfl1 said:


> I may have found something to occupy my time. There's a place called Yellow River Game Ranch by my house. It's kind of like a miniature zoo. It's not open now but I went down there and talked to someone about possibly volunteering there. Waiting to hear back from the owner.


A couple of years ago I volunteered at the local wildlife rescue...and it was just more fun! Animals we don't get to see close up normally....I really enjoyed it...I bet you will as well....


----------



## iAmCentrochelys sulcata

Tom said:


> I train animals for film. All animals. I do several big cat jobs a year, and frequently visit the compounds of friends who have them. I'm not really one of the "big cat guys", but I've raised a few from babies, and been around them for years. I always had a preference for the apes and monkeys.


wow that jan amazing, is there a certain name for that Job?


----------



## Tom

iAmCentrochelys sulcata said:


> wow that jan amazing, is there a certain name for that Job?


"Animal Trainer" 

My fancy college degrees are in:
"Animal Behavior Management" and
"Wildlife Education".


----------



## iAmCentrochelys sulcata

Tom said:


> "Animal Trainer"
> 
> My fancy college degrees are in:
> "Animal Behavior Management" and
> "Wildlife Education".


what films have you worked on?


----------



## Gijoux

KronksMom said:


> I've had chicken pox 3 times now. The second time I got it the doctor said I must have been misdiagnosed the first time. So I went back the third time and he said, "Ok, this changes things." Apparently I will never develop an immunity to chicken pox, always need to be careful around it, and especially need to be careful of shingles. He strongly recommended the shingles vaccine for me. I still haven't done it, but it's something I think about.



Virus' have the ability to change their protein coats, especially vaccine variety virus' like chickenpox. The second and third time you developed chickenpox it was most likely following an exposure to someone who had been vaccinated for chickenpox. Different Vaccine manufacturers make slightly different vaccines for "patent" purposes. They are not all exactly the same and the immune response they give an individual wanes over time and boosters must be provided. Another situation whereby an individual can develop a viral disease more than once, is following an immune suppression situation, like being placed on steroids, for instance. Steroids basically shut down the immune system leaving an individual at risk for even dying from a cold. As long as you have a robust immune system you will now be protected for all three versions of the Chickenpox you developed. Should you ever have another outbreak make sure the lab finds out "which" version you just had. Was it "wild" chickenpox or a "vaccine variety" and which one. When given a vaccine for any virus, if it is working in that individual, they will very likely be slightly contagious for a period of time. The vaccine industry believes this helps to keep antibodies high in the population in general, but it all falls apart should someone exposed be immune compromised for any reason. It also will only boost those individuals who had made antibodies to that exact antigen. An example is the Tetanus shot. It is nearly impossible to find the Tetanus shot as an individual vaccine. It is now usually only found with the Pertusis vaccine. The individual given this vaccine will usually shed Pertusis for 8-10 days. Many of the little "epidemics" we experience, like the Measles outbreak at Disneyland (CA), happened as a result of mass vaccination campaign of a part of the population. Which is what happened at Disneyland. The cases were traced back and determined to be a "Measles Vaccine" variety given to a group of staff working at Disneyland. Vaccination is not perfect.


----------



## Tom

iAmCentrochelys sulcata said:


> what films have you worked on?


Its been non stop every day for 25 years. I do mostly commercials, with some TV and some movies mixed in. I don't keep track of it all.


----------



## Yvonne G

iAmCentrochelys sulcata said:


> what films have you worked on?


One of his animals for commercials is the Target department store dog.


----------



## LasTortugasNinja

Anyone having issues finding supplies, I recommend looking for your local hippie organic grocery store. The kind you find around college campuses. I popped into one over the weekend and they had EVERYTHING that Walmart and Amazon are sold out on! TP, bottles of hand sanitizer (aloe and alcohol), etc. Not my usual place to go... it was interesting... but long story short, I got everything I needed in one spot and it only cost a few dollars more than the regular grocery stores.


----------



## KronksMom

Gijoux said:


> Virus' have the ability to change their protein coats, especially vaccine variety virus' like chickenpox. The second and third time you developed chickenpox it was most likely following an exposure to someone who had been vaccinated for chickenpox. Different Vaccine manufacturers make slightly different vaccines for "patent" purposes. They are not all exactly the same and the immune response they give an individual wanes over time and boosters must be provided. Another situation whereby an individual can develop a viral disease more than once, is following an immune suppression situation, like being placed on steroids, for instance. Steroids basically shut down the immune system leaving an individual at risk for even dying from a cold. As long as you have a robust immune system you will now be protected for all three versions of the Chickenpox you developed. Should you ever have another outbreak make sure the lab finds out "which" version you just had. Was it "wild" chickenpox or a "vaccine variety" and which one.



The first time I got chicken pox, I was 2 years old. Around the year 2000 (14 years old), I was working at a daycare. All the kids got sick, but I didn't think it was a big deal, because my mom said I'd had it already. Then, a few months later, another batch of kids got sick. None of the ones who had had it the first time got sick the second time, except for me. I was just a kid then myself, so I don't know if parents were really vaccinating their kids, but I don't remember it being anywhere near as prevalent as it is today. Since then, I've just treated chicken pox like the plague. But, at 34, I can tell you that my immune system is definitely not robust.


----------



## KarenSoCal

maggie18fan said:


> What the hell is PPE???When i go out I wear an N95 mask and carry hand sanitizer...



Maggie, PPE is Personal Protective Equipment. In this COVID 19, for you it is mask and hand sanitizer. For doctors and nurses, it includes masks, gloves, and disposable gowns to cover their clothes.

Firemen wear their suits, helmets, etc. PPE covers whatever is needed to be worn to keep a person from being injured or sickened, regardless of profession they are in, or at home.


----------



## Cathie G

Gijoux said:


> Virus' have the ability to change their protein coats, especially vaccine variety virus' like chickenpox. The second and third time you developed chickenpox it was most likely following an exposure to someone who had been vaccinated for chickenpox. Different Vaccine manufacturers make slightly different vaccines for "patent" purposes. They are not all exactly the same and the immune response they give an individual wanes over time and boosters must be provided. Another situation whereby an individual can develop a viral disease more than once, is following an immune suppression situation, like being placed on steroids, for instance. Steroids basically shut down the immune system leaving an individual at risk for even dying from a cold. As long as you have a robust immune system you will now be protected for all three versions of the Chickenpox you developed. Should you ever have another outbreak make sure the lab finds out "which" version you just had. Was it "wild" chickenpox or a "vaccine variety" and which one. When given a vaccine for any virus, if it is working in that individual, they will very likely be slightly contagious for a period of time. The vaccine industry believes this helps to keep antibodies high in the population in general, but it all falls apart should someone exposed be immune compromised for any reason. It also will only boost those individuals who had made antibodies to that exact antigen. An example is the Tetanus shot. It is nearly impossible to find the Tetanus shot as an individual vaccine. It is now usually only found with the Pertusis vaccine. The individual given this vaccine will usually shed Pertusis for 8-10 days. Many of the little "epidemics" we experience, like the Measles outbreak at Disneyland (CA), happened as a result of mass vaccination campaign of a part of the population. Which is what happened at Disneyland. The cases were traced back and determined to be a "Measles Vaccine" variety given to a group of staff working at Disneyland. Vaccination is not perfect.


Yes. I've always questioned something I read once a long time ago. It was that virus had not been classified as dead or alive in the first place. So how do they call a virus dead if they still haven't classified it. It would be interesting to know IF they have. But I very much doubt if they have.?


----------



## Cathie G

LasTortugasNinja said:


> Anyone having issues finding supplies, I recommend looking for your local hippie organic grocery store. The kind you find around college campuses. I popped into one over the weekend and they had EVERYTHING that Walmart and Amazon are sold out on! TP, bottles of hand sanitizer (aloe and alcohol), etc. Not my usual place to go... it was interesting... but long story short, I got everything I needed in one spot and it only cost a few dollars more than the regular grocery stores.


Mother Earth is one also if you're lucky enough to have one close. It's worth doing a family day if it's not close. Take a drive and get bulk flour, beans, etc. Take your own jar and grind your peanut butter. It's still warm. Wonderful food.


----------



## Maggie3fan

KarenSoCal said:


> Maggie, PPE is Personal Protective Equipment. In this COVID 19, for you it is mask and hand sanitizer. For doctors and nurses, it includes masks, gloves, and disposable gowns to cover their clothes.
> 
> Firemen wear their suits, helmets, etc. PPE covers whatever is needed to be worn to keep a person from being injured or sickened, regardless of profession they are in, or at home.


Thanks...sometimes I'm dumber than I look... ?


----------



## Cathie G

mark1 said:


> if a kid living a thousand miles from a road dies from covid , realistically what are the odds of someone living in a country where everyone lives on a road , minutes away from a city where folks are living 10,000-50,000 people per square mile , not getting exposed ? personally I think you'd need to be a very optimistic person to believe you were not going to get exposed before this is over ……… I think i'm a realist , often mistaken for a pessimist …….
> 
> *Sewage analysis suggests a New England metro area with fewer than 500 COVID-19 cases may have exponentially more*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sewage analysis suggests a New England metro area with fewer than 500 COVID-19 cases may have exponentially more
> 
> 
> Analysis of sewage in a New England metro area suggest COVID-19 cases are much higher than previously reported.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> abcnews.go.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> is it odd the united states has 42% of the confirmed covid cases in the world , and a 3.8% death rate , as compared to the rest of the world with 58% of the confirmed cases and a 7.1% death rate ? makes me think the rest of the world might be surprised at their real case numbers …….


My thought is since China only reported it back in January those figures will never be known. I don't even blame them for that. Who would think it could come to this? Testing everyone would cost so much in time and money that the truely sick won't be able to get the care they desperately need right now. Also, giving all the help possible to health care providers.I've actually heard through the monkey vine that critical care patients were testing negative for the flue with flue symptoms back in late November 2019. We'll see. In the meantime I'll wash my hands, care for my animals, and try not to leave home as usual.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

It's a little alarming that items like PPE, anti bacterial, anti viral items and toilet paper are still virtually non existent after all of this time and considering how much longer we likely still have to go.
I find myself and my family and friends very UNready for much more of this. And I personally acted early in gathering items in advance.
It's all almost gone.


----------



## mark1

ZEROPILOT said:


> I personally acted early in gathering items in advance.
> It's all almost gone.


the only problem I've had was feeding the dogs , and that seems to have cleared up here ………



ZEROPILOT said:


> Every day there is a news conference from the Governor of New York.
> Yet locally we have almost no information or leadership from ours.


personally I seen the president give a news conference everyday usually 5-6pm ? for at least the last two weeks ????????



Cathie G said:


> I have never understood how gloves can protect anyone


keeps you from touching your face



Maro2Bear said:


> I still don’t understand Desantis’ position on “church” attendance


*Constitution of United States of America 1789 
Amendment I*
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;



Cathie G said:


> My thought is since China only reported it back in January those figures will never be known. I don't even blame them for that. Who would think it could come to this?



I think with the leaked 2018 state department document , i'm gonna wait to see how this shakes out ……. I realize people leak stuff for a reason , but the fact the lab in Wuhan was studying bat coronavirus is at minimum a bit odd ???? it appears we know because the US government was supporting it ............. kinda makes cotton's comments a little less crazy appearing ......


----------



## ZEROPILOT

I'm referring to local information.
Broward county mayor...Floridas Governor.
Broward county Florida is a hotbed for the virus. And we're flying blind.
Also, I discount most of what our president has to say. It seems to be mostly unhelpful, wishful information at best.
That's my take on it, anyway.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

I went out in search of feeder crickets today.
I wasn't allowed in the pet store. They're meeting customers outside in a single file line in the parking lot.
But, they were available!


----------



## iAmCentrochelys sulcata

ZEROPILOT said:


> I went out in search of feeder crickets today.
> I wasn't allowed in the pet store. They're meeting customers outside in a single file line in the parking lot.
> But, they were available!


i wonder how that looks like.


----------



## Toddrickfl1

ZEROPILOT said:


> I went out in search of feeder crickets today.
> I wasn't allowed in the pet store. They're meeting customers outside in a single file line in the parking lot.
> But, they were available!


I went and bought some fancy guppies, koi, and goldfish for my new pond yesterday. If I got pulled over I was going to say they're feeder fish. That's my story and I'm sticking to it officer!


----------



## Maro2Bear

mark1 said:


> the only problem I've had was feeding the dogs , and that seems to have cleared up here ………
> 
> 
> personally I seen the president give a news conference everyday usually 5-6pm ? for at least the last two weeks ????????
> 
> 
> keeps you from touching your face
> 
> 
> *Constitution of United States of America 1789
> Amendment I*
> Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;
> 
> But Desantis is the Governor, not “Congress”. No?
> 
> 
> I think with the leaked 2018 state department document , i'm gonna wait to see how this shakes out ……. I realize people leak stuff for a reason , but the fact the lab in Wuhan was studying bat coronavirus is at minimum a bit odd ???? it appears we know because the US government was supporting it ............. kinda makes cotton's comments a little less crazy appearing ......


----------



## ZEROPILOT

My stimulus check cleared this morning.
$1,200


----------



## mark1

I personally stopped watching the presidents news conferences because they were bumming me out .........

from what I've seen , the university of Washington's model has said there were only two or three states that had potential to have problems with hospital space , new York ,new jersey and connecticut …… Cuomo seems a smart guy , but a natural politician...…... he may be talking a good game now , but it appears he should have been doing a little more than talking for the past 10yrs , or at least listening to his new self …. how do you have such a populated state and area such as NYC and less medical capability than ohio or pennsylvania ? i'm by no means a scientist , but i'm pretty sure population density is a big deal when it comes to infectious diseases …...

*new York* population 19.45 million , available beds 13,010 icu 718...………... 1495 people per bed

*ohio* population 11.69 million , available beds 14,290 icu 1238...……….. 818 people per bed

*florida * population 21.48 million , available beds 20,184 icu 1695...………. 1064 beds per

*Pennsylvania* population 12.8 million , available beds 14,395 icu 1043 …….. 889 per bed


----------



## Toddrickfl1

ZEROPILOT said:


> My stimulus check cleared this morning.
> $1,200


Mine too, I've already spent most of it lol


----------



## mark1

Maro2Bear said:


> But Desantis is the Governor, not “Congress”. No?



doesn't matter , there is a supremacy clause in the united states constituion ..... without it it wouldn't be the united states ? 
i'm sure it's been challenged in the supreme court many times , but it really is irrelevant as the state constitution of florida says exactly the same thing ........


> SECTION 3. Religious freedom.—There shall be no law respecting the establishment of religion or prohibiting or penalizing the free exercise thereof.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Speak of the Devil....
Governor Desantis was on tv today.
Mostly talking about other states and policies and not much helpful or insightful for actual Florida residents.
I'm convinced that he is as lost as we are!


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Apparently there is some talk about each citizen receiving a check for $2,000 a month for the remainder of this shut down.
I'm not sure how I feel about that.
I don't have children. But this deficit is going to last a LONG time.
We've really screwed things up for them.


----------



## jeneliza

maggie18fan said:


> Why sigh? Because you think I'm a gun idiot or because I think the gun is necessary? I personally think this whole thing right now is sad...and I won't use my gun until and if the panicked people get crazed...some thieves broke into an SUV pulling a small trailer and swiped something like 100 packages of 12 rolls toilet paper...sand and funny as well...


I don't think your a gun nut, I think you have the right to bear arms, and to protect your self, people get crazy when things happen, better to be prepared, then to be unprepared , plus if you have arms, your granted to be able to feed your self, and others, years ago, we didn't have a meat processing plant, if you wanted to eat them you better have known how to aim, even if you have your own live stock,


----------



## ZEROPILOT

jeneliza said:


> I don't think your a gun nut, I think you have the right to bear arms, and to protect your self, people get crazy when things happen, better to be prepared, then to be unprepared , plus if you have arms, your granted to be able to feed your self, and others, years ago, we didn't have a meat processing plant, if you wanted to eat them you better have known how to aim, even if you have your own live stock,


I could shoot and eat all of the Iguanas and Muscovy ducks if it came down to eat.
Everything that moves here is edible.....Even those cats that keep pooping in my planted areas.


----------



## jeneliza

ZEROPILOT said:


> I could shoot and eat all of the Iguanas and Muscovy ducks if it came down to eat.
> Everything that moves here is edible.....Even those cats that keep pooping in my planted areas.


 okay now your just being silly, alligator is probably better for you, it's pretty pricey in the seafood restaurant here, I don't eat meat but my kids and husband, love it, probably better than cat, lol


----------



## ZEROPILOT

jeneliza said:


> okay now your just being silly, alligator is probably better for you, it's pretty pricey in the seafood restaurant here, I don't eat meat but my kids and husband, love it, probably better than cat, lol


I had forgotten about gator tail. It's pretty good.
And then there are all of those fish and unarmed civilians also made out of meat!!
Probably too soon to be thinking that?


----------



## jeneliza

ZEROPILOT said:


> I had forgotten about gator tail. It's pretty good.
> And then there are all of those fish and unarmed civilians also made out of meat!!
> Probably too soon to be thinking that?


 probably a little soon for that, unless you turned into a zombie, if so carry on, lol


----------



## jeneliza

jeneliza said:


> probably a little soon for that, unless you turned into a zombie, if so carry on, lol


But you may need your weapons to get some tp, these days, but I am pretty sure people plan on eating it or something, because , I can find alot of food but no tp so what are they planning on doing with it, don't need it if you don't have food to eat, so I am guessing that they are planning on eating it to, lol,. So save your aimo, for getting ahold of this most valuable paper, lol


----------



## Maggie3fan

ZEROPILOT said:


> I went out in search of feeder crickets today.
> I wasn't allowed in the pet store. They're meeting customers outside in a single file line in the parking lot.
> But, they were available!


I used to get them in the mail regularly...when I fed that kinda stuff...my pet store is doing the same kind of sales...but they won't take any of my birds until this is over...and I am thinkin that this might be our new 'norm' and we won't ever be over it...


----------



## Maggie3fan

jeneliza said:


> But you may need your weapons to get some tp, these days, but I am pretty sure people plan on eating it or something, because , I can find alot of food but no tp so what are they planning on doing with it, don't need it if you don't have food to eat, so I am guessing that they are planning on eating it to, lol,. So save your aimo, for getting ahold of this most valuable paper, lol


my closest friend works at a gun store...there has been and still is a run on guns...he says it's still going on and hasn't slowed down much...


----------



## jeneliza

maggie18fan said:


> my closest friend works at a gun store...there has been and still is a run on guns...he says it's still going on and hasn't slowed down much...


It hasnt, at all people are scared, by this and there two different reasons that there afraid of,one not be able to protect them selfs, or having to get there own, the next they fear there right to bear arms will be taken away, and then you have the people who fear both of them happening, after this alot people no longer trust that the government can protect or provide what they need, I never believe that they could , so I guess I am not shocked by any of the events that are happening, but I've always been pretty self-sufficient,


----------



## Maggie3fan

jeneliza said:


> It hasnt, at all people are scared, by this and there two different reasons that there afraid of,one not be able to protect them selfs, or having to get there own, the next they fear there right to bear arms will be taken away, and then you have the people who fear both of them happening, after this alot people no longer trust that the government can protect or provide what they need, I never believe that they could , so I guess I am not shocked by any of the events that are happening, but I've always been pretty self-sufficient,


I also am fairly self sufficient...most of my friends carry...we do have an open carry law in Oregon...I have no fear in regards to my gun carrying friends...it's all these Joe Rednecks who are now buying guns without the mental capacity for judging when or when not to use one...


----------



## jeneliza

maggie18fan said:


> I also am fairly self sufficient...most of my friends carry...we do have an open carry law in Oregon...I have no fear in regards to my gun carrying friends...it's all these Joe Rednecks who are now buying guns without the mental capacity for judging when or when not to use one...


i don't fear , the ones who buy legal, it's the person who I don't know has a weapon, or who got it in the dark , or the Saturday night special, if they got them from the gun dealers, there traceable, so most people would think before using,


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Finally!


----------



## Maro2Bear

ZEROPILOT said:


> Finally!



Bath tissue? I ordered TOILET paper!


----------



## Toddrickfl1

ZEROPILOT said:


> Finally!


I'd buy the whole pallet at this point.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Toddrickfl1 said:


> I'd buy the whole pallet at this point.


Limit 2 four packs


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Three of the four local mom and pop type restaurants that I've been GRUB HUBBING frequently, have closed as of yesterday and today.
The one left has no employees. No delivery driver and just the husband and wife. And they're almost done, too.
They're also having severe difficulties in finding certain food items to use in their dishes.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Maro2Bear said:


> Bath tissue? I ordered TOILET paper!


Bath tissue made in China
That's Walmart MARKETPLACE.
Every non food item is made in China


----------



## VegasJeff

1 ply or 2 ply?


----------



## mark1

ZEROPILOT said:


> Speak of the Devil....
> Governor Desantis was on tv today.
> Mostly talking about other states and policies and not much helpful or insightful for actual Florida residents.
> I'm convinced that he is as lost as we are!



could be worse , gillum could've won ………..






ZEROPILOT said:


> Apparently there is some talk about each citizen receiving a check for $2,000 a month for the remainder of this shut down.
> I'm not sure how I feel about that.
> I don't have children. But this deficit is going to last a LONG time.
> We've really screwed things up for them.



that was proposed by a congressman from ohio , I doubt it gets much further than proposed , i heard the cost is around another 2.3 trillion ...... saw a local news story 2 days ago about the county i live in having it's 31rst influenza death , so i got on the computer to see how many covid 19 deaths were in the county , 33 ........... as far as the economy , giving folks money to spend is about the only thing the government can do , the US economy is driven by people buying stuff ........ giving money to folks is more about minimizing the damage this is doing to the economy , than helping individuals ........ this is new territory for everyone alive today , anyone thinks they know what to do , or how it plays out is full of **** ……... i believe we owe china about 2 trillion dollars ? too bad we can't sue them for damages ........ be tough to prove responsibility , they don't allow access , after the outbreak began officials at the lab destroyed samples of the virus, erased early reports, destroyed records , suppressed academic papers , deported western reporters , one outspoken doctor died , another went missing along with some journalist .......…..


----------



## Cathie G

ZEROPILOT said:


> I could shoot and eat all of the Iguanas and Muscovy ducks if it came down to eat.
> Everything that moves here is edible.....Even those cats that keep pooping in my planted areas.


I have a cat problem also but not with our home kitty. Thanks? for triggering a new project for me.


----------



## Cathie G

jeneliza said:


> But you may need your weapons to get some tp, these days, but I am pretty sure people plan on eating it or something, because , I can find alot of food but no tp so what are they planning on doing with it, don't need it if you don't have food to eat, so I am guessing that they are planning on eating it to, lol,. So save your aimo, for getting ahold of this most valuable paper, lol


I'm considering a bidet. Cheap cheap.


----------



## Cathie G

jeneliza said:


> It hasnt, at all people are scared, by this and there two different reasons that there afraid of,one not be able to protect them selfs, or having to get there own, the next they fear there right to bear arms will be taken away, and then you have the people who fear both of them happening, after this alot people no longer trust that the government can protect or provide what they need, I never believe that they could , so I guess I am not shocked by any of the events that are happening, but I've always been pretty self-sufficient,


Yes.


----------



## Cathie G

I found out about a week ago a home health aide that's been in my home recently tested positive. She was here back in late March. That was a live by the seat of my pants moment as usual. She was here to help me give my friend ( that's paraplegic ) some personal care items to keep him safer.


----------



## jeneliza

ZEROPILOT said:


> Finally!
> 
> View attachment 291222


Not yet at my large stores, I usually get it at the small stores, they seem to have it first for some reason, and to think we have at least two different facility that makes tp in Michigan, one is Forest green, not sure the other name, but it's in Milford Michigan, you think we have alot by now, and what are people doing with all of it eating it? Lol, I brought extra and a pack when I see it but not a garage full, I have three packages, and I keep three just I. Case, but I don't think that is to much for a family of five,


----------



## jeneliza

Cathie G said:


> I found out about a week ago a home health aide that's been in my home recently tested positive. She was here back in late March. That was a live by the seat of my pants moment as usual. She was here to help me give my friend ( that's paraplegic ) some personal care items to keep him safer.


Well, first don't panic, alot of people don't get it, when exposed, next it has a 87% recovery rate, most cases are very mild, they say it may or may not work, but you could try to up your vitumin c, to at least 1500 mgs daily, don't worry you can't od on it, our bodies don't store it, but check your temperature daily, and if you do get a fever DON'T take Advil, or anything with it in it for at least 14 days, my sister is a nurse and she has had a few positive cases , however she's has not got it yet, so just stay mindful, and don't stress over you will lower your resistance and immunities,


----------



## jeneliza

jeneliza said:


> Well, first don't panic, alot of people don't get it, when exposed, next it has a 87% recovery rate, most cases are very mild, they say it may or may not work, but you could try to up your vitumin c, to at least 1500 mgs daily, don't worry you can't od on it, our bodies don't store it, but check your temperature daily, and if you do get a fever DON'T take Advil, or anything with it in it for at least 14 days, my sister is a nurse and she has had a few positive cases , however she's has not got it yet, so just stay mindful, and don't stress over you will lower your resistance and immunities,


Also make sure you are eating right, and healthy it very important that you are at this point, this also helps our resistance


----------



## jeneliza

Toddrickfl1 said:


> I'd buy the whole pallet at this point.


Walmart, only one per customer, lol


----------



## Cathie G

jeneliza said:


> Well, first don't panic, alot of people don't get it, when exposed, next it has a 87% recovery rate, most cases are very mild, they say it may or may not work, but you could try to up your vitumin c, to at least 1500 mgs daily, don't worry you can't od on it, our bodies don't store it, but check your temperature daily, and if you do get a fever DON'T take Advil, or anything with it in it for at least 14 days, my sister is a nurse and she has had a few positive cases , however she's has not got it yet, so just stay mindful, and don't stress over you will lower your resistance and immunities,


Exactly. I called my friend today and found out the whole thing was exaggerated by the fact she is a home health aide. I was told she tested positive but today I finally heard the results were actually negative. If I jump everytime they say jump, I'll be so worn out However, my daughter in law has been exposed. One of her patients has died of c19. She's an RN but only has 6 patients. 2 have been positive. I don't get to see her very often. I can only do what I do anyway. I try to stay home and play with my animals anyway. Because I want to take good care of my critters, I've always washed my hands a lot. I've been in my happy self quarantine, lockdown for years by my choice.?


----------



## ZEROPILOT

There are clearly a lot more cars back out on the road here.
Traffic looks like before this started.
I think people are starting to seriously resist staying home.


----------



## Maggie3fan

jeneliza said:


> Walmart, only one per customer, lol


4 roll pk of single ply??? rather use a leaf...


----------



## ZEROPILOT

maggie18fan said:


> 4 roll pk of single ply??? rather use a leaf...


It's like gas station bathroom paper


----------



## Maggie3fan

ZEROPILOT said:


> It's like gas station bathroom paper



Oh...ugly...


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Some Florida beaches are reopening.
Yeah.
Me neither.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Have y'all been able to buy supplies?
I ordered alcohol, gloves and masks on Ebay.
Three separate sellers.
All took my money. Said the order was shipped.....And nothing arrived.
Ebay has refunded my money. But this is very disappointing.
Tonight I ordered some hand sanitizer and masks from "U.S. MADE" Sellers on Amazon.
Very expensive, but I'm hoping these are legit.
If you order anything, even if it is made overseas, try to find a U.S. seller to deal with.
Scammers are everywhere.
And FYI
A gallon of 91% isopropyl alcohol starts at $50.
So much for those 70% pint bottles at the Dollar Store.
Who knew?
I had quite a bit of stuff here. But due to the duration of this thing and the items I've given away, I'm seriously low in PPE and decent disinfectant. My wife works two days a week now in a building where 4 people had COVID-19 and they are not providing any means of protection.
(I'm getting our union involved)


----------



## jaizei

ZEROPILOT said:


> Have y'all been able to buy supplies?
> I ordered alcohol, gloves and masks on Ebay.
> Three separate sellers.
> All took my money. Said the order was shipped.....And nothing arrived.
> Ebay has refunded my money. But this is very disappointing.
> Tonight I ordered some hand sanitizer and masks from "U.S. MADE" Sellers on Amazon.
> Very expensive, but I'm hoping these are legit.
> If you order anything, even if it is made overseas, try to find a U.S. seller to deal with.
> Scammers are everywhere.
> And FYI
> A gallon of 91% isopropyl alcohol starts at $50.
> So much for those 70% pint bottles at the Dollar Store.
> Who knew?
> I had quite a bit of stuff here. But due to the duration of this thing and the items I've given away, I'm seriously low in PPE and decent disinfectant. My wife works two days a week now in a building where 4 people had COVID-19 and they are not providing any means of protection.
> (I'm getting our union involved)



Are you just talking about the surgical masks (typically blue) or N95? The masks on eBay are most likely coming from the same sources as the wholesale sites (aliexpress, DHgate) so I bought from DHgate directly. Some sellers say stocked in USA but maybe that just means they have a warehouse here too because the masks were from China.


----------



## Warren

jaizei said:


> Are you just talking about the surgical masks (typically blue) or N95? The masks on eBay are most likely coming from the same sources as the wholesale sites (aliexpress, DHgate) so I bought from DHgate directly. Some sellers say stocked in USA but maybe that just means they have a warehouse here too because the masks were from China.


Bought a box of fifty blue three layers mask for $70.00 from a friend. I wondering what they would of costs from a stranger.


----------



## Cathie G

ZEROPILOT said:


> Have y'all been able to buy supplies?
> I ordered alcohol, gloves and masks on Ebay.
> Three separate sellers.
> All took my money. Said the order was shipped.....And nothing arrived.
> Ebay has refunded my money. But this is very disappointing.
> Tonight I ordered some hand sanitizer and masks from "U.S. MADE" Sellers on Amazon.
> Very expensive, but I'm hoping these are legit.
> If you order anything, even if it is made overseas, try to find a U.S. seller to deal with.
> Scammers are everywhere.
> And FYI
> A gallon of 91% isopropyl alcohol starts at $50.
> So much for those 70% pint bottles at the Dollar Store.
> Who knew?
> I had quite a bit of stuff here. But due to the duration of this thing and the items I've given away, I'm seriously low in PPE and decent disinfectant. My wife works two days a week now in a building where 4 people had COVID-19 and they are not providing any means of protection.
> (I'm getting our union involved)


My son googled alcohol and actually the 91% is a better disinfectant then what you ordered anyway. So it's probably a blessing in disguise. He has to keep a little spritzer on him always because he's so allergic to mites and others like ants. I'll be hoping with you that you get your order.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

I'm positive that the blue masks are made in China.
But shipping is from a U,S warehouse, so I'll have them next week.
The box of 60 were about $50.

The hand sanitizer is AMERICAN made. And is roughly $55 per gallon. Same price as some of the 70% alcohol.
(I still have not purchased alcohol)


----------



## Yvonne G

I stopped off at the store on the way home from getting my mail at the post office and *THEY HAD T-PAPER!!!!!!!*


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Yvonne G said:


> I stopped off at the store on the way home from getting my mail at the post office and *THEY HAD T-PAPER!!!!!!!*


Oh, that's great to hear.
Were you completely out?


----------



## KronksMom

Based on her postings, I assume Yvonne's been pooping with the torts for a while now.


----------



## Yvonne G

KronksMom said:


> Based on her postings, I assume Yvonne's been pooping with the torts for a while now.


LOL! I've been harvesting banana tree leaves.



ZEROPILOT said:


> Oh, that's great to hear.
> Were you completely out?


No, a couple weeks ago I ordered T-paper online and it took over a week to arrive - FROM CHINA!!!! It was quite expensive, but when one's desperate. . .


----------



## Maro2Bear

So far today, in the last 24 hours 96 deaths, and 854 new cases of covid-19 here. It’s not going away here & ppl are quarantining for the most part. Very little traffic, the only vehicular congregations are by grocery stores. Everyone is wearing masks. Ppl are dying here daily. I’ll up my chances of not contracting the virus by complying with the rules in place.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Maro2Bear said:


> So far today, in the last 24 hours 96 deaths, and 854 new cases of covid-19 here. It’s not going away here & ppl are quarantining for the most part. Very little traffic, the only vehicular congregations are by grocery stores. Everyone is wearing masks. Ppl are dying here daily. I’ll up my chances of not contracting the virus by complying with the rules in place.


Yep.
It definitely sounds like it's time to re open everything.
We need another 4 months.
To be honest, I'm glad that I'm not in charge of deciding what to do.
This is going to suck. No matter what.


----------



## Maro2Bear

ZEROPILOT said:


> Yep.
> It definitely sounds like it's time to re open everything.



Haaa. Reportedly there was an “Open MD back up rally” today in Annapolis. Police are noting three ppl showed Up.

Its spreading, ppl getting it, and perishing. No one needs to be TOLD to stay home when it hits home. Ok, back to gardening.


----------



## Cathie G

Yesterday protesters were out protesting in Columbus in large groups. I can really understand their frustration. Some people are falling through the cracks of the stimulus package supposedly designed to help all of us. I have so many mixed feelings. I am however, still picking and choosing the day and time I shop for necessary items as usual. The bright side is, now I have a legitimate excuse.?


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Ok
Most people are wearing some sort of masks. 
But I'm seeing a lot of people with masks on, but lowered, so they can breathe out of their exposed noses....I'm guessing because it's too hot?


----------



## ZEROPILOT

I was born in Florida and have lived most of my life here.
But I grew up in South Carolina. I consider myself a South Carolinian and I absolutely love the state and the people. But SH*T, folks. You just took the virus seriously like two weeks ago....And you're already re opening?
That wasn't even long enough for a proper Spring cleaning.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

mark1 said:


> could be worse , gillum could've won ………..
> 
> 
> A crackhead or a crackpot.
> And yet, we almost elected the crackhead.
> Screwed either way
> 
> 
> 
> that was proposed by a congressman from ohio , I doubt it gets much further than proposed , i heard the cost is around another 2.3 trillion ...... saw a local news story 2 days ago about the county i live in having it's 31rst influenza death , so i got on the computer to see how many covid 19 deaths were in the county , 33 ........... as far as the economy , giving folks money to spend is about the only thing the government can do , the US economy is driven by people buying stuff ........ giving money to folks is more about minimizing the damage this is doing to the economy , than helping individuals ........ this is new territory for everyone alive today , anyone thinks they know what to do , or how it plays out is full of **** ……... i believe we owe china about 2 trillion dollars ? too bad we can't sue them for damages ........ be tough to prove responsibility , they don't allow access , after the outbreak began officials at the lab destroyed samples of the virus, erased early reports, destroyed records , suppressed academic papers , deported western reporters , one outspoken doctor died , another went missing along with some journalist .......…..


----------



## ZEROPILOT

FIRST-AID-PRODUCT.com
Has in stock isopropyl alcohol, gloves and masks in stock....As well as a lot of other cool, hard to find items and a "normal" prices!
I placed an order a few days ago.
Check them out if you need anything.


----------



## Turtulas-Len

No virus here at the beach. Everything going on as normal except the restaurants are selling to go food only. You have a hard time finding someone wearing a mask. The beaches, boat ramp, and fishing areas along with all the playgrounds and other recreation areas taped off. They did this to keep tourist from coming here. I took Rocket to the vet last Friday and not a mask in sight. He has fluid around his heart and got 2 shots and a script of lasix, to see if they will help.The total bill was $59, and the vet called me Sunday to see how he was doing. I hear TP sells out a soon as it comes in but as far as I can tell most everything else is available. I went to the ABC store today to pick some vodka up for a neighbor that doesn't drive and I spent $86 on other things I didn't need. I've had more people stopping by wanting plants than any time before. Small Town Life is Great, especially in times like this.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Here is totally different.
I can't get in to get my eye injections I need every month. The eye institute is closed. I can't see my cardiologist except over the phone. My back surgeon as well as my physical therapy place are closed.
Masks are mandatory and the stay home order is still in effect.
All parks and beaches closed.
Strangely my dogs veterinarian is open.


----------



## KronksMom

I had to take my dog to the emergency vet (he has end stage kidney failure and we thought it might be time, but not quite yet), and it was a very strange experience. We had to call from the car when we got there and someone came out in a mask, gown and gloves, to take my baby through a crack in the window. He had to stay over night, and they just relayed what they were doing by phone. Given what's going on with him, he just got pain meds and was monitored. Then, when they were sure it wasn't his time yet, they carried him back to us the same way. All payment was made over the phone as well. It was very strange. And incredibly stressful, to not be able to be there with him.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

My dog just needs her yearly wellness exam and a nail trim.
So it can wait.


----------



## Cathie G

KronksMom said:


> I had to take my dog to the emergency vet (he has end stage kidney failure and we thought it might be time, but not quite yet), and it was a very strange experience. We had to call from the car when we got there and someone came out in a mask, gown and gloves, to take my baby through a crack in the window. He had to stay over night, and they just relayed what they were doing by phone. Given what's going on with him, he just got pain meds and was monitored. Then, when they were sure it wasn't his time yet, they carried him back to us the same way. All payment was made over the phone as well. It was very strange. And incredibly stressful, to not be able to be there with him.


That's what I did for our cat's senior checkup and to get my bunny her nail job. I can imagine your stress. It was all easier for me physically but I don't like my animals being stressed like that. I'm sure me being there at least gives them some reassurance in normal vet visits.


----------



## Cathie G

ZEROPILOT said:


> FIRST-AID-PRODUCT.com
> Has in stock isopropyl alcohol, gloves and masks in stock....As well as a lot of other cool, hard to find items and a "normal" prices!
> I placed an order a few days ago.
> Check them out if you need anything.


I'll be showing that to my son. Thanks.


----------



## Maggie3fan

ZEROPILOT said:


> Here is totally different.
> I can't get in to get my eye injections I need every month. The eye institute is closed. I can't see my cardiologist except over the phone. My back surgeon as well as my physical therapy place are closed.
> Masks are mandatory and the stay home order is still in effect.
> All parks and beaches closed.
> Strangely my dogs veterinarian is open.


Yep...Oregon is the same...a couple got a $1500 ticket for having their kid in an empty playground...masks are mandatory every damn where... I get short of oxygen, or at least it feels like it...and my glasses fog up...try shopping that way...my mask has a N95 thingy inside a pocket...free, made by my friend...nobody here pays for them...well, you donate material, or a few bucks for it...mine were complimentary...



I have a Fuchsia one too...



and this one for serious coverage...


----------



## Maro2Bear

ZEROPILOT said:


> FIRST-AID-PRODUCT.com
> Has in stock isopropyl alcohol, gloves and masks in stock....As well as a lot of other cool, hard to find items and a "normal" prices!
> I placed an order a few days ago.
> Check them out if you need anything.



I’m starting to think there is a shortage of things on the East Coast is because @ZEROPILOT is buying it all!


----------



## Maro2Bear

We made a quick trip to the Lidl around the corner to pick up a few salad greens. Very few ppl, but everyone was wearing masks & gloves. Prince Georges County here in Md is a hot zone, I’m thinking when ppl see ppl dying in their neighborhoods or relatives in hospitals, they start to take things a bit more seriously.


----------



## Turtulas-Len

During the daily update at the White House they had this scientist from Fort Detrick in Thurmont MD. They have been testing the virus to find it's half life under different conditions. Here are pics of slides that showed the results.



These findings take some of the fear of this virus away. And maybe people shouldn't be stuck inside in conditions that this virus thrives, unless they live in a closed chamber.


----------



## Blackdog1714

I had all three of dogs vaccinated in January so they are all together for everything now! I use Dr. Kathys Mobile Vet and have known Dr. Kathy for over 29 years. Don’t know what I will do when she retires it is concierge medicine for my pets! She is real good too she has never suggested vitamin shots for torts!


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Maro2Bear said:


> I’m starting to think there is a shortage of things on the East Coast is because @ZEROPILOT is buying it all!


Most of what I "found" ended up being "not available at this time"
But, I keep trying


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Turtulas-Len said:


> During the daily update at the White House they had this scientist from Fort Detrick in Thurmont MD. They have been testing the virus to find it's half life under different conditions. Here are pics of slides that showed the results.
> View attachment 292109
> View attachment 292110
> View attachment 292111
> These findings take some of the fear of this virus away. And maybe people shouldn't be stuck inside in conditions that this virus thrives, unless they live in a closed chamber.


Of all of that information, what stands out the most is the part on the lower left corner.

Seriously, though. COVID-19 is pretty strong here.
We have a very high UV index and it's been near 90 all Spring. So you've got a point.
This summer is going to be a scorcher.


----------



## mark1

ZEROPILOT said:


> Of all of that information, what stands out the most is the part on the lower left corner.
> 
> Seriously, though. COVID-19 is pretty strong here.
> We have a very high UV index and it's been near 90 all Spring. So you've got a point.
> This summer is going to be a scorcher.



one could remove new York cities 8+ million people and near 17,000 deaths , and for florida to match new york state you would need somewhere around 9,000 deaths , I believe you got a ways to go to match that disaster ............

if it weren't for the federal government , i got 3 guys working for me wouldn't have a job monday .......... bringing that total to 9 , 6 of which didn't get help fast enough ........ i'm sure i got a decent chance of not doing well if i got this covid crap , but this country needs to open up ..... i assure you the damage done by this hasn't been seen yet ....... take away the jobs I offer , I see the workforce available , this will be a vastly different country , if you think it'll be better for the young folks i'm hiring , you really are naïve , and i'm sad for my kids and grandkids …..……...

seeing the antibody testing just done in new York city and santa clara county makes wonder about the actual fatality rate ……… it still looks to be more than the flu , but what if there were no flu vaccine , and all the older folks and people at risk of doing badly with the flu didn't get vaccinated , my guess is it'd wipe out nursing homes , the elderly and folks with health problems just like this is ...……… 

sunlight being a natural virucidal agent didn't use to be controversial , but after 4 yrs of everyday being a crisis , I guess sunlight might as well be another ......


----------



## ZEROPILOT

I've said since before this virus started that I'm glad I don't have kids.
I'm horrified by this crap sandwich we're giving them to deal with.
It won't be the relatively easy going life that most of us had.
And a lot of us found that hard.
From some of the anecdotal evidence I've encountered. The infection rate is many times more than we might be recognizing. Therefore, the number of deaths that ARE known would show a far lesser percentage of people who die from this.
However, in the case of myself, my wife or my mother in a nursing home in the ridiculously haphazardly run state of Georgia. I wouldn't care what that percentage is. If any of us die because someone really wanted to go out and go bowling.
I don't have the answer.
But I do share your frustration.
I have no scenario in my imagination where the known benefits of sunlight would in any real world way be of any real benefit to ending this.
It was an attempt to keep this a friendly conversation


----------



## mark1

the Miami dade county study is not anecdotal , they actually tested 1800 people , 6% tested positive , I believe that translates to 165,000 people having been infected vs the 10,000 claimed , I've not done the math myself but I been told that puts the death rate at 0.17% …..... same with the new York city and santa clara county studies , their not anecdotal , they are facts …I believe the santa clara one extrapolated to like 400,000 people ….... are there biases in their selection ? as the studies get larger and more widespread it'll become clearer ……. 

i have to think the sunlight thing came up because of all the states that prohibit going to parks , going out on your boat , just being outside .... there are a lot of theories as to why the flu is seasonal , one is that folks are inside .. your chances of catching this outside appears to be very small as opposed to indoors , they looked at around 300 or so people they believed they could trace their exposure to covid 19 , and if I remember correctly they only believed one of them came in contact with it outside ....... the fact viruses are known to remain viable for shorter periods of time on surfaces in sunlight i believe is a useful fact ...... uv radiation kills viruses ......... as far as a good "disinfectant" you can take 30mg of zinc and wash it down with a glass of grain alchohol , should kill most of whatever you got  .........

my daughter works as a geologist for a company that invest in oil , her husband fracks oil wells , they're trying to raise a family , he just recently became unemployed ........ to see the politicalization of this , and the absolute joy some are getting out of the economy being trashed , disgusts me …… they're ignorant , hopefully this problem finds it's way to them , sadly it won't ... i truly find politicians for the most part useless , actually stupid , common senseless POS people lacking in integrity .......

I believe people who feel they are at risk need to do whatever they need to avoid this , the rest need to practice common sense ……… that bowling alley owner got bills to pay too , maybe a family to raise , he could have opened up yesterday , he still has a good chance of not surviving this ……...there are no "non-essential" jobs ……... if we had shut down parts of the country in an attempt to wait for the flu to go away , we'd have been shut down for the last 100yrs …….. I understand wanting to stretch this out , not wanting to overrun medical capabilities , personally I feel that's been done , as evidenced by these antibody studies ….. ohio never came close , if we used more than 1% of available capability , i'd be surprized , metro health in Cuyahoga county , i'd think sees the majority of the population here , last I knew had 2 covid deaths …….... new York is the only state came close to a problem , and that imo was just stupidity on their part …….. 

hopefully your mom and family stay safe and healthy ……..


----------



## Toddrickfl1

Well looks like my state (GA) will be the guinea pig. Governor gave the ok to open everything back up yesterday, gyms, hair salons, restaurants, etc. Rumor is the state doesn't have the funds available to pay out all the unemployment claims.


----------



## mark1

none can .……… they want the federal government to pay the tab …… states are billions in the red , apparently none of them did well at math and can't comprehend what 23-24 trillion dollars is , states want to be unto themselves , except when it comes to paying their bills …..…….…….. well your governor appears a little better at math than most …….


----------



## Blackdog1714

Toddrickfl1 said:


> Well looks like my state (GA) will be the guinea pig. Governor gave the ok to open everything back up yesterday, gyms, hair salons, restaurants, etc. Rumor is the state doesn't have the funds available to pay out all the unemployment claims.


OMG I wish you the best and don't join the masses. In Virginia we haven't even hit our peak yet! Personally I just want the tennis nets back!!! It is a non-contact sport


----------



## ZEROPILOT

I've noticed that there are many businesses that I believe were ordered shut down here that never actually did.
The wig shop on the corner is one of them. That place has stayed busy, too.
The traffic also seems about normal, also.
Clearly, this is too much for many people.
Shops are opening here and there.
I'm not sure if there are penalties for not closing down your private business. Or if they are inforced.
But many have resisted and others have re opened since.
From what I've seen, they are all using distancing practices.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Toddrickfl1 said:


> Well looks like my state (GA) will be the guinea pig. Governor gave the ok to open everything back up yesterday, gyms, hair salons, restaurants, etc. Rumor is the state doesn't have the funds available to pay out all the unemployment claims.


I'm sure we'll all have our eyes on Georgia to see how it goes


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Beverly's Pet Center in Hollywood Florida has 70% alcohol, hand sanitizer and gloves for sale.
You can stock up while getting some pet supplies.


----------



## Maggie3fan

ZEROPILOT said:


> I'm sure we'll all have our eyes on Georgia to see how it goes



When this first started people in Corvallis really did stay home, traffic was light, couldn't get a manicure or hair cut...my friend in the gun shop says a 'rush' started abt 3 weeks ago and is only getting worse...in the last 2 weeks the most traffic in front of my house was 2 Domino's delivery drivers...one comin one going...now traffic is normal and more people on the street...I plan on staying home more now then I was...meaning I'll probably start shopping more on line...


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Like it or not....People are just tired of waiting and they're leaving the house more.
I myself make at least one small trip every two days or so.
I thank God that neither my wife or myselfs income has been affected. For us, this is just a minor inconvenience.
I'm not taking for granted how fortunate we are.


----------



## Cathie G

Here in Ohio... The news is reporting a 6000 jump in reported confirmed cases since last Saturday. They aren't including the deaths in nursing homes that had it or whatever...but really I also try to stay clean and not get a virus every day. I'm glad people are washing their hands etc...


----------



## Maggie3fan

ZEROPILOT said:


> Like it or not....People are just tired of waiting and they're leaving the house more.
> I myself make at least one small trip every two days or so.
> I thank God that neither my wife or myselfs income has been affected. For us, this is just a minor inconvenience.
> I'm not taking for granted how fortunate we are.



me too...I sure feel the same way...


----------



## ZEROPILOT

My moms home in Albany Georgia assures me that their safety precautions will remain fully in effect and they have still been able to contain the covid cases that are present there.


----------



## mark1

Cathie , I believe this is a pretty accurate site for tracking ohio , they have seemed to update it everyday …...

https://coronavirus.ohio.gov/wps/portal/gov/covid-19/dashboards/overview


----------



## iAmCentrochelys sulcata

Warren said:


> Bought a box of fifty blue three layers mask for $70.00 from a friend. I wondering what they would of costs from a stranger.



i wouldn’t call that a Friend Fr that’s horrible what a jerk.


----------



## Maggie3fan

iAmCentrochelys sulcata said:


> i wouldn’t call that a Friend Fr that’s horrible what a jerk.


Awe...come on...there are NO jerks on the Forum...


----------



## iAmCentrochelys sulcata

maggie18fan said:


> iAmCentrochelys sulcata said:
> 
> 
> 
> i wouldn’t call that a Friend Fr that’s horrible what a jerk.
> 
> 
> 
> Awe...come on...there are NO jerks on the Forum...
Click to expand...

no i meant the so called “Friend”


----------



## Cathie G

mark1 said:


> Cathie , I believe this is a pretty accurate site for tracking ohio , they have seemed to update it everyday …...
> 
> https://coronavirus.ohio.gov/wps/portal/gov/covid-19/dashboards/overview


I'll check that out. I also watch my local news and they are supposedly only reporting confirmed cases by testing in Ohio. But really, I'm glad that the general public is so afraid that they are washing their hands more often. The medications I take lower your immune response. I'm elderly with health issues and yet I don't get everything coming and going. Even if my developmentally disabled brother is coughing and sneezing in our home. I do that one simple thing of washing my hands and avoid crowds every day of my life anyway. Now and then I use a Lysol wipe on door handles and such stuff. Not much has really changed for me since all this except...I have a really good excuse to put off shopping.


----------



## Blackdog1714

Originally being from Ohio I am not surprised at the under-reporting. In 7th grade back in 1982 I was looking forward to typing class, unfortunately NO. The removed the typewriters, but never got computers? UH why stop something that would only transfer an very needed skill later!


----------



## Maggie3fan

iAmCentrochelys sulcata said:


> no i meant the so called “Friend”




Oh...that makes it ok...


----------



## Warren

maggie18fan said:


> iAmCentrochelys sulcata said:
> 
> 
> 
> no i meant the so called “Friend”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh...that makes it ok...
Click to expand...

I agree, so called a Friend, No hard feelings you call them like you see them. The so called "Friend" will need something or help one day, so I hope if he does he better have some deep pockets and they better not be empty. The same box was on line for $8.61, but they were on back order and coming out of China. Had to have some, did what I had to do.


----------



## iAmCentrochelys sulcata

Warren said:


> maggie18fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh...that makes it ok...
> 
> 
> 
> I agree, so called a Friend, No hard feelings you call them like you see them. The so called "Friend" will need something or help one day, so I hope if he does he better have some deep pockets and they better not be empty. The same box was on line for $8.61, but they were on back order and coming out of China. Had to have some, did what I had to do.
Click to expand...

not likely to happen, but you could have had more options. that’s just a rip-off but i guess you knew what yo where doing.


----------



## Blackdog1714

That is why I like trading-Equal value for both parts at least. Often it is one or both that feel they just got the deal of a lifetime. No hard feelings if your both winning!!!


----------



## Cathie G

Blackdog1714 said:


> Originally being from Ohio I am not surprised at the under-reporting. In 7th grade back in 1982 I was looking forward to typing class, unfortunately NO. The removed the typewriters, but never got computers? UH why stop something that would only transfer an very needed skill later!


Yea. While home schooling, my son's had a typing lesson to do everyday. From a book and a typewriter. They got really good at it. It's helped them on a computer and maybe even their music.


----------



## iAmCentrochelys sulcata

Blackdog1714 said:


> That is why I like trading-Equal value for both parts at least. Often it is one or both that feel they just got the deal of a lifetime. No hard feelings if your both winning!!!


exactly.


----------



## mark1

Cathie ,I believe the big jump you saw is going to be the prison in marion which added 2000-2500 cases within a couple days ……. you got to wonder how they had that amount of cases there without knowing ?


----------



## Yvonne G

My New Jersey granddaughter's live in boyfriend, Charles, is a kitchen worker at the VA hospital. Recently all employees were tested for covid-19. Charles has no symptoms and isn't sick, but he and several of his co workers tested positive and were sent home. I'm very concerned.


----------



## Cathie G

mark1 said:


> Cathie ,I believe the big jump you saw is going to be the prison in marion which added 2000-2500 cases within a couple days ……. you got to wonder how they had that amount of cases there without knowing ?


Wow...and non violent people are about to be released. And how did all those people get visitors from all over anyway. Or is that number presumptions?or whatever? It's not like they're even allowed to have close contact or are they? Is it a strange anomaly that being all cooped up might make the virus spread easier?


----------



## Cathie G

Yvonne G said:


> My New Jersey granddaughter's live in boyfriend, Charles, is a kitchen worker at the VA hospital. Recently all employees were tested for covid-1. Charles has no symptoms and isn't sick, but he and several of his co workers tested positive and were sent home. I'm very concerned.


----------



## Cathie G

My daughter in law is an RN and a patient of hers tested positive. She drove him to the er. I really hear you. So far so good here. I'll be hoping the same for your family


----------



## ZEROPILOT

The news reported that the active ingredient in PEPSID antacid (Femotadine) has shown signs of being able to help fight COVID-19.
Just like that.....Another item that has disappeared from the shelves.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Yvonne G said:


> My New Jersey granddaughter's live in boyfriend, Charles, is a kitchen worker at the VA hospital. Recently all employees were tested for covid-19. Charles has no symptoms and isn't sick, but he and several of his co workers tested positive and were sent home. I'm very concerned.


That could end up being the new "normal" if we find out just how many people have had the virus and didn't even know it.
Wouldn't it be great to know that many of us that get exposed, had no health issues associated with it?


----------



## ZEROPILOT

I got my order from:
First-Aid-Product.com
It's legitimate!
99% isopropyl alcohol in 16oz bottles for under $6!
(I like the warning telling you not to drink it.)
This is science/institutional grade stuff.
I'm going to use it in my hand sanitizer mix!
I also bought 200 exam gloves.
Check them out.
They're selling a lot of hard to find stuff and they have it in stock.


----------



## iAmCentrochelys sulcata

ZEROPILOT said:


> I got my order from:
> First-Aid-Product.com
> It's legitimate!
> 99% isopropyl alcohol in 16oz bottles for under $6!
> (I like the warning telling you not to drink it.)
> This is science/institutional grade stuff.
> I'm going to use it in my hand sanitizer mix!
> I also bought 200 exam gloves.
> Check them out.
> They're selling a lot of hard to find stuff and they have it in stock.


should have stolen that from my biology Class Smh. ?‍ lol


----------



## Cathie G

ZEROPILOT said:


> I got my order from:
> First-Aid-Product.com
> It's legitimate!
> 99% isopropyl alcohol in 16oz bottles for under $6!
> (I like the warning telling you not to drink it.)
> This is science/institutional grade stuff.
> I'm going to use it in my hand sanitizer mix!
> I also bought 200 exam gloves.
> Check them out.
> They're selling a lot of hard to find stuff and they have it in stock.


I told my son about that site but will tell him the fact you actually got a delivery.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Its "Laboratory grade denatured, isopropyl alcohol"
Over 99% pure


----------



## Cathie G

You have to read my developmentally disabled bro's take on corona...


----------



## ZEROPILOT

The news reported that there are now over 30 strains of this same Corona virus that are mutations.
So, some people that have shown no symptoms may have been exposed to a less deadly strain.(just a theory)
And recovering from the virus won't neccesarily guarantee that you won't get it again. (A different strain) As has been reported.
It's unfortunate. But at least it makes sense.
I had assumed that if you had it and beat it, you would be safe from it again.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

There is a food drive set up at the SUNRISE TENNIS CLUB a few blocks away.
The line of vehicles and the amount of people waiting for food handouts is staggering.
I estimate the line to be a half of a mile long.
My local pet store is once again allowing people to enter the store.
Masks are required.
Parks have re opened. That's nice. I miss taking my morning nature walks.


----------



## LasTortugasNinja

I'm so glad in January I started my dubia colony. It's now got several generations going and thriving! While Utah isn't as locked down as other states, we are affected by not being able to get stock from locked down states, including crickets and other bugs from the farms back east. My monitor is eating good.

TP is hilarious. Stores get it at 6am and it's gone for the day by 6:30, even with limits. I see parents handing each of their 7 or 9 kids a $5 bill and a pack of TP and shoo them to the registers. Getting ridiculous.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

LasTortugasNinja said:


> I'm so glad in January I started my dubia colony. It's now got several generations going and thriving! While Utah isn't as locked down as other states, we are affected by not being able to get stock from locked down states, including crickets and other bugs from the farms back east. My monitor is eating good.
> 
> TP is hilarious. Stores get it at 6am and it's gone for the day by 6:30, even with limits. I see parents handing each of their 7 or 9 kids a $5 bill and a pack of TP and shoo them to the registers. Getting ridiculous.


Florida has outlawed Dubia roaches.
I've been getting a variety of feeders from Josh's Frogs.
I see TP about every other time I get out.


----------



## LasTortugasNinja

ZEROPILOT said:


> Florida has outlawed Dubia roaches.
> I've been getting a variety of feeders from Josh's Frogs.
> I see TP about every other time I get out.


yeah, I've heard about that. I'm just commenting in general and my situation, not recommending a course of action. Glad you can find feeders. When I was a kid, I had dozens of reptiles and this quarantine would have had me chasing butterflies with nets in grazing fields right now to feed all the mouths.


----------



## Cathie G

ZEROPILOT said:


> There is a food drive set up at the SUNRISE TENNIS CLUB a few blocks away.
> The line of vehicles and the amount of people waiting for food handouts is staggering.
> I estimate the line to be a half of a mile long.
> My local pet store is once again allowing people to enter the store.
> Masks are required.
> Parks have re opened. That's nice. I miss taking my morning nature walks.


I love that picture. It looks like such a wonderful place to walk everyday.


----------



## mark1

ZEROPILOT said:


> The news reported that there are now over 30 strains of this same Corona virus that are mutations.
> So, some people that have shown no symptoms may have been exposed to a less deadly strain.(just a theory)
> And recovering from the virus won't neccessarily guarantee that you won't get it again. (A different strain) As has been reported.
> It's unfortunate. But at least it makes sense.
> I had assumed that if you had it and beat it, you would be safe from it again.



I've read that sars cov-2 (covid 19) mutates very slowly for a virus , the ones going around the world are very close to the original from Wuhan ……. the original sars cov offered a 2-3 yr immunity , I've read sars cov-2 is genetically very similar to sars cov …….. I believe even if you don't have an immunity , if your body is familiar with a virus your immune response will be better ……… I think viruses mutating is normal , I believe them becoming more dangerous is not the norm ?


don't know if this stuff interest anyone , but I believe after reading this stuff , a lot of folks will have a new fear of bats , I might ……… it's going to make a world full of people who are germaphobes , afraid of bats and other people ….. i'd imagine psychiatrist will have a booming business when this is through …….

*Bat lady of Wuhan*
https://www.scientificamerican.com/...wn-viruses-from-sars-to-the-new-coronavirus1/








Bat Coronaviruses in China


During the past two decades, three zoonotic coronaviruses have been identified as the cause of large-scale disease outbreaks–Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome (SARS), Middle East Respiratory Syndrome (MERS), and Swine Acute Diarrhea Syndrome (SADS). SARS and MERS emerged in 2003 and 2012...




www.mdpi.com





*Bat coronaviruses in china *
https://www.mdpi.com/1999-4915/11/3/210

*Origin and evolution of pathogenic coronaviruses*

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41579-018-0118-9


----------



## iAmCentrochelys sulcata

Cathie G said:


> You have to read my developmentally disabled bro's take on corona...
> View attachment 292688


whos Joe? is it a Bot?


----------



## iAmCentrochelys sulcata

ZEROPILOT said:


> The news reported that there are now over 30 strains of this same Corona virus that are mutations.
> So, some people that have shown no symptoms may have been exposed to a less deadly strain.(just a theory)
> And recovering from the virus won't neccesarily guarantee that you won't get it again. (A different strain) As has been reported.
> It's unfortunate. But at least it makes sense.
> I had assumed that if you had it and beat it, you would be safe from it again.



well now it just looks like a bio-weapon as if they modified the virus, it’s to perfect.


----------



## Cathie G

iAmCentrochelys sulcata said:


> whos Joe? is it a Bot?


He's my younger brother. Those are text messages he sent me. He's developmentally disabled and profoundly deaf from the measles virus 61 years ago. But when he finally understands he tells me in one of the only ways he can. Sometimes it's just so funny I have to share it.☺


----------



## iAmCentrochelys sulcata

Cathie G said:


> He's my younger brother. Those are text messages he sent me. He's developmentally disabled and profoundly deaf from the measles virus 61 years ago. But when he finally understands he tells me in one of the only ways he can. Sometimes it's just so funny I have to share it.☺


ahh no wonder i thought it was a Bot bcs of the [CB] and then saying the name Joe
what was he trying to say in the disney Part? i’m curious

Edit: make sure to not put of personal information you put out your brothers Full name and Phone number, just watch out.


----------



## Cathie G

mark1 said:


> I've read that sars cov-2 (covid 19) mutates very slowly for a virus , the ones going around the world are very close to the original from Wuhan ……. the original sars cov offered a 2-3 yr immunity , I've read sars cov-2 is genetically very similar to sars cov …….. I believe even if you don't have an immunity , if your body is familiar with a virus your immune response will be better ……… I think viruses mutating is normal , I believe them becoming more dangerous is not the norm ?
> 
> 
> don't know if this stuff interest anyone , but I believe after reading this stuff , a lot of folks will have a new fear of bats , I might ……… it's going to make a world full of people who are germaphobes , afraid of bats and other people ….. i'd imagine psychiatrist will have a booming business when this is through …….
> 
> *Bat lady of Wuhan*
> https://www.scientificamerican.com/...wn-viruses-from-sars-to-the-new-coronavirus1/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bat Coronaviruses in China
> 
> 
> During the past two decades, three zoonotic coronaviruses have been identified as the cause of large-scale disease outbreaks–Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome (SARS), Middle East Respiratory Syndrome (MERS), and Swine Acute Diarrhea Syndrome (SADS). SARS and MERS emerged in 2003 and 2012...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.mdpi.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Bat coronaviruses in china *
> https://www.mdpi.com/1999-4915/11/3/210
> 
> *Origin and evolution of pathogenic coronaviruses*
> 
> https://www.nature.com/articles/s41579-018-0118-9


And then what about all those crazy viruses that mutate every year and they can't seem to come up with a flue shot that guarantees you won't get the flue this year. Just wondering.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

When I was a dumb kid, my buddy and I used to toss pebbles in the air, then wack at bats swooping down for the pebbles with tennis rackets.
It was rare that we hit one. But I remember how odd they looked at night under a flashlight.
It would be fitting that a bat ended up whacking me.


----------



## Cathie G

iAmCentrochelys sulcata said:


> ahh no wonder i thought it was a Bot bcs of the [CB] and then saying the name Joe
> what was he trying to say in the disney Part? i’m curious


He was really sad and at one point sobbing. He loves anything Walt Disney. I keep reassuring him as much as I can. He's a 61 years old child that loves cartoons. He's a very simple minded person and a lot of fun.


----------



## iAmCentrochelys sulcata

Cathie G said:


> He was really sad and at one point sobbing. He loves anything Walt Disney. I keep reassuring him as much as I can. He's a 61 years old child that loves cartoons. He's a very simple minded person and a lot of fun.


read the Part that i just added to my Reply.


----------



## Cathie G

iAmCentrochelys sulcata said:


> ahh no wonder i thought it was a Bot bcs of the [CB] and then saying the name Joe
> what was he trying to say in the disney Part? i’m curious
> 
> Edit: make sure to not put of personal information you put out your brothers Full name and Phone number, just watch out.


If anyone can go through this monkey vine called the TFO and get my personal info...I wish they would give me lessons.


----------



## iAmCentrochelys sulcata

Cathie G said:


> If anyone can go through this monkey vine called the TFO and get my personal info...I wish they would give me lessons.


lmao. but you should really watch out.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

iAmCentrochelys sulcata said:


> lmao. but you should really watch out.


The truth remains that you can never be too safe.


----------



## mark1

Cathie G said:


> And then what about all those crazy viruses that mutate every year and they can't seem to come up with a flue shot that guarantees you won't get the flue this year. Just wondering.



the flu has become less dangerous over time ………. I believe in 1918 H1N1 killed as many as 100,000,000 people worldwide over 3 yrs …… H1N1 in 2009 killed around 200,000 people worldwide……..


----------



## mark1

ZEROPILOT said:


> When I was a dumb kid, my buddy and I used to toss pebbles in the air, then wack at bats swooping down for the pebbles with tennis rackets.
> It was rare that we hit one. But I remember how odd they looked at night under a flashlight.
> It would be fitting that a bat ended up whacking me.



i never realized how many zoonotic diseases bats carry ...... i wouldn't imagine any animal could harbor that many diseases that people could catch .......


----------



## Maro2Bear

mark1 said:


> the flu has become less dangerous over time ………. I believe in 1918 H1N1 killed as many as 100,000,000 people worldwide over 3 yrs …… H1N1 in 2009 killed around 200,000 people worldwide……..



1918 Flu Deaths

The 1918 influenza pandemic was the most severe pandemic in recent history. It was caused by an H1N1 virus with genes of avian origin. Although there is not universal consensus regarding where the virus originated, it spread worldwide during 1918-1919. In the United States, it was first identified in military personnel in spring 1918. It is estimated that about 500 million people or one-third of the world’s population became infected with this virus. The number of *deaths was estimated to be at least 50 million worldwide with about 675,000 occurring in the United States. /CDC/*


----------



## iAmCentrochelys sulcata

ZEROPILOT said:


> The truth remains that you can never be too safe.


Never be to safe never lmao... I remember “hacking my sister” I didn’t I just knew her password.


----------



## Maro2Bear

Things getting a bit tense in Michigan

MICHIGAN Governor Gretchen Whitmer had to be protected by state police on Thursday after a group of armed protesters and militia tried to storm the floor of the state house.

The confrontation came ahead of a scheduled vote on whether or not to extend the state's stay-at-home order through May 15.

source - https://www.the-sun.com/news/762488/michigan-militia-protest-governor-whitmer-coronavirus/


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Maro2Bear said:


> Things getting a bit tense in Michigan
> 
> MICHIGAN Governor Gretchen Whitmer had to be protected by state police on Thursday after a group of armed protesters and militia tried to storm the floor of the state house.
> 
> The confrontation came ahead of a scheduled vote on whether or not to extend the state's stay-at-home order through May 15.
> 
> source - https://www.the-sun.com/news/762488/michigan-militia-protest-governor-whitmer-coronavirus/


WTF are a lot of the protesters A) Armed?
And B) Wearing MAGA hats?
I don't see the reason.
I can't make a logical connection.


----------



## Cathie G

iAmCentrochelys sulcata said:


> lmao. but you should really watch out.


Yea I did. ?I've been so private I can't even post my own videos here even after I tried to change my settings...That's ok though. I'm where I need to be anyway.☺


----------



## mark1

I would suggest getting the info from a local station ……. the sun in the uk ??????????


"armed protesters and militia tried to storm the floor of the state house" ...……."Hundreds of protesters, some carrying guns " …...……..... another media crisis

the state police spokeswoman Shanon Banner described it as "peaceful" ...... one protestor was arrested for assaulting another protestor , a fight ?????? one state senator did say some guys with guns yelled at her ............ it is legal to carry guns in the statehouse in michigan , if they don't like it , the governor and the woman who was yelled at should change the law ???????


----------



## mark1

and today with live with H1N1 without a thought …………. pretty sure viruses don't normally get more virulent the longer they're around …….


----------



## Cathie G

mark1 said:


> I've read that sars cov-2 (covid 19) mutates very slowly for a virus , the ones going around the world are very close to the original from Wuhan ……. the original sars cov offered a 2-3 yr immunity , I've read sars cov-2 is genetically very similar to sars cov …….. I believe even if you don't have an immunity , if your body is familiar with a virus your immune response will be better ……… I think viruses mutating is normal , I believe them becoming more dangerous is not the norm ?
> 
> 
> don't know if this stuff interest anyone , but I believe after reading this stuff , a lot of folks will have a new fear of bats , I might ……… it's going to make a world full of people who are germaphobes , afraid of bats and other people ….. i'd imagine psychiatrist will have a booming business when this is through …….
> 
> *Bat lady of Wuhan*
> https://www.scientificamerican.com/...wn-viruses-from-sars-to-the-new-coronavirus1/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bat Coronaviruses in China
> 
> 
> During the past two decades, three zoonotic coronaviruses have been identified as the cause of large-scale disease outbreaks–Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome (SARS), Middle East Respiratory Syndrome (MERS), and Swine Acute Diarrhea Syndrome (SADS). SARS and MERS emerged in 2003 and 2012...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.mdpi.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Bat coronaviruses in china *
> https://www.mdpi.com/1999-4915/11/3/210
> 
> *Origin and evolution of pathogenic coronaviruses*
> 
> https://www.nature.com/articles/s41579-018-0118-9


I've read a virus becomes less dangerous over time also. But I still believe they also become less dangerous in a few hours of drying out. It could even take a day or more. I'm really glad people are maybe getting the idea that they need to wash their hands.


----------



## Cathie G

mark1 said:


> i never realized how many zoonotic diseases bats carry ...... i wouldn't imagine any animal could harbor that many diseases that people could catch .......


Flies do. But lets blame it all on a bat.


----------



## mark1

I was referring to mutating , I'm lead to believe they usually become "weaker" ………… soap I believe deactivates this virus , I seem to remember the reason given was the virus is surrounded by a fat membrane , soap breaks up fat ……


----------



## mark1

bats can pass rabies , nipah virus , hindrah virus , SARS , MERS , SADS , cov19 , Marburg , ebola and mengla to humans , I believe there are more corona viruses that they can pass to people , i'd need to look them up , they carry like 20-30 types of coronavirus …...…….. possibly flies give them a run for the money …...


----------



## Cathie G

mark1 said:


> the flu has become less dangerous over time ………. I believe in 1918 H1N1 killed as many as 100,000,000 people worldwide over 3 yrs …… H1N1 in 2009 killed around 200,000 people worldwide……..


I've read in 1918 it was 20 million and another wave in 1920. That hurt almost as many people. Around 20 possibly later, I worked daily right next to a young lady that contracted H1N1. She passed out in my arms and later was put in an induced coma. Despite my health problems, I didn't get it.


ZEROPILOT said:


> The truth remains that you can never be too safe.


Amen.


----------



## Cathie G

mark1 said:


> I was referring to mutating , I'm lead to believe they usually become "weaker" ………… soap I believe deactivates this virus , I seem to remember the reason given was the virus is surrounded by a fat membrane , soap breaks up fat ……


Yes that's why it's really good for tanning your hide.


----------



## Cathie G

Cathie G said:


> I've read in 1918 it was 20 million and another wave in 1920. That hurt almost as many people. Around 20 possibly later, I worked daily right next to a young lady that contracted H1N1. She passed out in my arms and later was put in an induced coma. Despite my health problems, I didn't get it.
> 
> Amen.


And well...it wasn't 20 it was around 2009 or later that I survived that flue season. I haven't had a flue shot ever. I have had a few vaccinations in the 1960's. I'm not saying that will keep me safe. I'm just saying.☺


----------



## ZEROPILOT

mark1 said:


> I would suggest getting the info from a local station ……. the sun in the uk ??????????
> 
> 
> "armed protesters and militia tried to storm the floor of the state house" ...……."Hundreds of protesters, some carrying guns " …...……..... another media crisis
> 
> the state police spokeswoman Shanon Banner described it as "peaceful" ...... one protestor was arrested for assaulting another protestor , a fight ?????? one state senator did say some guys with guns yelled at her ............ it is legal to carry guns in the statehouse in michigan , if they don't like it , the governor and the woman who was yelled at should change the law ???????


Funny what makes it on t.v. I suppose


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Cathie G said:


> I've read a virus becomes less dangerous over time also. But I still believe they also become less dangerous in a few hours of drying out. It could even take a day or more. I'm really glad people are maybe getting the idea that they need to wash their hands.


Viruses don't ever really go away. We just become less vulnerable to them with exposure and vacinations


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Cathie G said:


> And well...it wasn't 20 it was around 2009 or later that I survived that flue season. I haven't had a flue shot ever. I have had a few vaccinations in the 1960's. I'm not saying that will keep me safe. I'm just saying.☺


I can truthfully say that I've only had "the flu" twice. And they were the two years my wife convinced me to get a flu shot.


----------



## Cathie G

ZEROPILOT said:


> I can truthfully say that I've only had "the flu" twice. And they were the two years my wife convinced me to get a flu shot.


That's what goes on around here also. My brother will take a flue shot and get the so called flue. Then I have to live around a coughing sneezing Joe. I've never had flue shots and I've only had the actual flue twice in my lifetime like you. It's something you don't forget. The last time was in the 80's.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Those two times I had the flu, they lasted a couple of weeks.
The last one started to ease up, then came back in full force.
I never got pneumonia. Just a lot of aches, tissues for my nose and sleeping


----------



## Yvonne G

ZEROPILOT said:


> I can truthfully say that I've only had "the flu" twice. And they were the two years my wife convinced me to get a flu shot.


I don't believe I've ever had the flu. Haven't had a cold in years. But then, I don't ever have contact with anyone besides my animals. A couple times ago when William came to visit he had a cold, but I didn't get it. Of course,now that I've bragged, I'm going to get sick.


----------



## Cathie G

mark1 said:


> I was referring to mutating , I'm lead to believe they usually become "weaker" ………… soap I believe deactivates this virus , I seem to remember the reason given was the virus is surrounded by a fat membrane , soap breaks up fat ……


That's why a soap tanned piece of leather is the best. That's how I came up with a really good recipe for a soap versus detergent cleaner. It's one bar of Fels Naphtha laundry soap scrapped up. Dissolve it in a gallon of boiling water. Turn the heat off and dissolve slowly. Keep stirring until it's dissolved then let it gel. It makes even plastic kitchen trashcans look new. Just smear the gel on and let it sit a few minutes. Then start washing the soap off. It can be mixed with bleach with no bad reaction but that really isn't necessary. It's an oil soap. If my grocery store tries to stop stocking the little gold bars I'm nagging them. It winds up being a gallon of cleaner for about 2$.


----------



## Cathie G

ZEROPILOT said:


> Those two times I had the flu, they lasted a couple of weeks.
> The last one started to ease up, then came back in full force.
> I never got pneumonia. Just a lot of aches, tissues for my nose and sleeping


I was having 2 children by c-section within about 3 years during that time. I'm still here! At one point, during the second bout, I blew my nose and found out I'm a blue blood. Also while trying to sleep, I could hear a noise like an old man moaning. That just made me mad. Well...it's not only am I blowing my brains out but some old man is trying to take up residence in my chest. So I had to get up and fight back.


Maro2Bear said:


> 1918 Flu Deaths
> 
> The 1918 influenza pandemic was the most severe pandemic in recent history. It was caused by an H1N1 virus with genes of avian origin. Although there is not universal consensus regarding where the virus originated, it spread worldwide during 1918-1919. In the United States, it was first identified in military personnel in spring 1918. It is estimated that about 500 million people or one-third of the world’s population became infected with this virus. The number of *deaths was estimated to be at least 50 million worldwide with about 675,000 occurring in the United States. /CDC/*


Yea that's closer to the numbers I read about in the eighties in a cookbook of all ways to read it. But I read it was over the course of 3 years.


----------



## Cathie G

iAmCentrochelys sulcata said:


> ahh no wonder i thought it was a Bot bcs of the [CB] and then saying the name Joe
> what was he trying to say in the disney Part? i’m curious
> 
> Edit: make sure to not put of personal information you put out your brothers Full name and Phone number, just watch out.


Oh by the by that phone number is kinda not connected and I see what you mean. Plus the phone can only do contacts.


----------



## mark1

*The Threat of Pandemic Influenza*
Institute of Medicine (US) Forum on Microbial Threats; Editors: Stacey L Knobler, Alison Mack, Adel Mahmoud, and Stanley M Lemon.


> "A contemporary estimate put the death toll at 21 million, a figure that persists in the media today, but understates the real number. Epidemiologists and scientists have revised that figure several times since then. Each and every revision has been upward. Frank Macfarlane Burnet, who won his Nobel Prize for immunology but who spent most of his life studying influenza, estimated the death toll as probably 50 million, and possibly as high as 100 million. A 2002 epidemiologic study also estimates the deaths at between 50 and 100 million (Johnson and Mueller, 2002).
> 
> The world population in 1918 was only 28 percent of today's population. Adjusting for population, a comparable toll today would be 175 to 350 million".


----------



## Cathie G

mark1 said:


> *The Threat of Pandemic Influenza*
> Institute of Medicine (US) Forum on Microbial Threats; Editors: Stacey L Knobler, Alison Mack, Adel Mahmoud, and Stanley M Lemon.


Yes and that will happen this time also. The real numbers won't be known.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Cathie G said:


> I was having 2 children by c-section within about 3 years during that time. I'm still here! At one point, during the second bout, I blew my nose and found out I'm a blue blood. Also while trying to sleep, I could hear a noise like an old man moaning. That just made me mad. Well...it's not only am I blowing my brains out but some old man is trying to take up residence in my chest. So I had to get up and fight back.
> 
> Yea that's closer to the numbers I read about in the eighties in a cookbook of all ways to read it. But I read it was over the course of 3 years.


I've heard that moan too.
Not only did it only come on everytime I nearly got to sleep, it also made my dog growl.


----------



## Cathie G

ZEROPILOT said:


> I've heard that moan too.
> Not only did it only come on everytime I nearly got to sleep, it also made my dog growl.


My mother had told me previously that moan is pneumonia trying to start. It was really weird. I didn't know it's actually audible.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Cathie G said:


> My mother had told me previously that moan is pneumonia trying to start. It was really weird. I didn't know it's actually audible.


It may very well be.
I've only heard it when I was really sick


----------



## ZEROPILOT

I bought Suki in to the vet today for X Ray's of her problematic knees.
Everything was "drive up".
They took her and bought her back through my cars window as I waited outside. And the vet spoke to me via my telephone.
I also paid the bill via the phone.


----------



## Warren

Hello everyone, for those people waiting on a stimulus check. Just letting you know that I just received a $1200 stimulus check for my Mother. She passed away March 2019 at 94yrs old. So we know how well the Treassury Dept. are checking up on who they send check to. I will be contacting the Treasury Dept. to return it so somebody " ALIVE" can use it.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Warren said:


> Hello everyone, for those people waiting on a stimulus check. Just letting you know that I just received a $1200 stimulus check for my Mother. She passed away March 2019 at 94yrs old. So we know how well the Treassury Dept. are checking up on who they send check to. I will be contacting the Treasury Dept. to return it so somebody " ALIVE" can use it.


The intention was good. But I'm sure that the execution of that money was very, very wasteful.


----------



## Cathie G

Warren said:


> Hello everyone, for those people waiting on a stimulus check. Just letting you know that I just received a $1200 stimulus check for my Mother. She passed away March 2019 at 94yrs old. So we know how well the Treassury Dept. are checking up on who they send check to. I will be contacting the Treasury Dept. to return it so somebody " ALIVE" can use it.


I think they are just trying to get it out as fast as they can to help us. Mine came in a check delivered by the post office even though they have my direct deposit info. I filed taxes in 2018. Really though, you're saving yourself a lot of problems later because you're doing the right thing now. They will still have accomplished their goal even if you're honest or dishonest. The irs has it's ways.


----------



## Cathie G

ZEROPILOT said:


> It may very well be.
> I've only heard it when I was really sick


Sorry it took me so long to respond. The fact that a dog heard the old man moan told me too much. You hearing it also set off a ton of questions so my mind is in overdrive. 1) Is it audible to other humans or just dogs? And doctors have decided to prescribe a service animal for people. 2) What about other animals. Can they all hear their surroundings better then us? Then question after questions... 3)another question. Is that why smart people decide to become a slave to so many critters?☺


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Cathie G said:


> Sorry it took me so long to respond. The fact that a dog heard the old man moan told me too much. You hearing it also set off a ton of questions so my mind is in overdrive. 1) Is it audible to other humans or just dogs? And doctors have decided to prescribe a service animal for people. 2) What about other animals. Can they all hear their surroundings better then us? Then question after questions... 3)another question. Is that why smart people decide to become a slave to so many critters?☺


My old dog. CHESTER could indeed tell if I was sick, etc. And he acted totally differently depending on it.
My new dog, Suki is unfortunately not very "sharp". Shall we say.
She's not very observant, but she let's me know if I'm making strange moaning sounds.


----------



## Cathie G

ZEROPILOT said:


> My old dog. CHESTER could indeed tell if I was sick, etc. And he acted totally differently depending on it.
> My new dog, Suki is unfortunately not very "sharp". Shall we say.
> She's not very observant, but she let's me know if I'm making strange moaning sounds.


You are the only person I somewhat know that has heard that. Let alone your dog. I thought I was a bit batty for a while. But I got up with fists flying because my mum had warned me.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Cathie G said:


> You are the only person I somewhat know that has heard that. Let alone your dog. I thought I was a bit batty for a while. But I got up with fists flying because my mum had warned me.


I remember it well.
Right as I dozed off. Every time I dozed off.
It sounded like someone elses voice. 
I had a high fever and aches.
I was very tired. But that stupid noise kept me awake.
That and Suki growling....


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Wendy's is out of ground beef.
So, now its TOILET PAPER. ALCOHOL WIPES, MASKS, GLOVES AND GROUND BEEF.
And next month, its hurricane shutters, batteries and gasoline for the generator.
Pandemic in paradise.


----------



## Cathie G

ZEROPILOT said:


> I remember it well.
> Right as I dozed off. Every time I dozed off.
> It sounded like someone elses voice.
> I had a high fever and aches.
> I was very tired. But that stupid noise kept me awake.
> That and Suki growling....


I've never forgotten it. It was such a strange noise and experience. I was so sick with two babies in the early 80's. I decided to get up one way or another. I guess your little friend Suki could hear it also. Maybe they don't have to be the sharpest chip on the block. They can just luv you.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

When's the last time anyone has seen an aerosol can of Lysol spray?


----------



## KarenSoCal

ZEROPILOT said:


> When's the last time anyone has seen an aerosol can of Lysol spray?


Ummm...I'm looking at one on my kitchen counter. Do I win a jacket or something? ???


----------



## Cathie G

ZEROPILOT said:


> When's the last time anyone has seen an aerosol can of Lysol spray?


I heard on the news today that most of those things come from China and that's why there's a shortage. They mentioned Lysol and the wipes also.


----------



## Maggie3fan

Well...I'm still here...Oregon is still 'closed' yet today at the store there were so many people, they had some dude directing check out lines, like Disneyland. In the Safeway, aisles are now marked 'one way' with an arrow...seriously? Now the government is telling ME how to walk in a freakin grocery store???One way in...one way out...
So my neighbor and I watched a 4 hr marathon on TV and stuffed ourselves with chocolate chip cookies...4 hours of...


Popeye the sailor man...in "The Dance Contest" 1934


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Cathie G said:


> I heard on the news today that most of those things come from China and that's why there's a shortage. They mentioned Lysol and the wipes also.


I think Lysol is made by the Clorox company.
They're in the US


----------



## ZEROPILOT

KarenSoCal said:


> Ummm...I'm looking at one on my kitchen counter. Do I win a jacket or something? ???


Yes


----------



## ZEROPILOT

maggie18fan said:


> Well...I'm still here...Oregon is still 'closed' yet today at the store there were so many people, they had some dude directing check out lines, like Disneyland. In the Safeway, aisles are now marked 'one way' with an arrow...seriously? Now the government is telling ME how to walk in a freakin grocery store???One way in...one way out...
> So my neighbor and I watched a 4 hr marathon on TV and stuffed ourselves with chocolate chip cookies...4 hours of...
> View attachment 293652
> 
> Popeye the sailor man...in "The Dance Contest" 1934
> View attachment 293653


Could be worse.
You could be stuck watching Rachel Maddow or anything on Fox News.
I'm kind of avoiding national news. Just some local stuff and lots of funny YOUTUBE videos.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

There are now 8 cases of COVID-19 at my mothers home.
They're all being isolated on the second floor for safety.
Mom had her test today.
The results will take a few days


----------



## iAmCentrochelys sulcata

ZEROPILOT said:


> There are now 8 cases of COVID-19 at my mothers home.
> They're all being isolated on the second floor for safety.
> Mom had her test today.
> The results will take a few days


That’s scary to think about, I hope your mother good luck.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

iAmCentrochelys sulcata said:


> That’s scary to think about, I hope your mother good luck.


At this point, it might come down to luck.
Thank you very much


----------



## iAmCentrochelys sulcata

ZEROPILOT said:


> At this point, it might come down to luck.
> Thank you very much


Yes we have to be realistic there’s a high change your mother contracted the virus, which we hope she didn’t. It all comes up to Luck.
Take care man.


----------



## Maggie3fan

ZeroPiolet


ZEROPILOT said:


> At this point, it might come down to luck.
> Thank you very much



Like the rest...I am thinkin about your Mom and including her in my prayers. I'm 74 and the people who care for me say I am 'vulnerable', (ha...not) under lying stuff...but I am tough and I fully expect that if I, by chance, do get the virus it won't be more than the flu...who the hell knows?! In public I wear a mask and carry hand sanitizer get my stuff and go home...at home my animals are hiding from me...the only one who likes seeing me is my always starving Lil Turtle...


----------



## iAmCentrochelys sulcata

maggie18fan said:


> ZeroPiolet
> 
> 
> Like the rest...I am thinkin about your Mom and including her in my prayers. I'm 74 and the people who care for me say I am 'vulnerable', (ha...not) under lying stuff...but I am tough and I fully expect that if I, by chance, do get the virus it won't be more than the flu...who the hell knows?! In public I wear a mask and carry hand sanitizer get my stuff and go home...at home my animals are hiding from me...the only one who likes seeing me is my always starving Lil Turtle...
> View attachment 293699
> View attachment 293700


You also keep a Painted turtle! That’s cool I’ve only hadn’t one species it was a Red eared slider, well actually 2, I do not find them as interesting as Tortoises but they are definitely Social . At least the ones I 

stay safe Mag!


----------



## iAmCentrochelys sulcata

Ok this I’ve never showed this to nobody but when I was 11 or so I made a video of caring for RES. I find it quite funny now. Hope it gets your mood up. 
It’s Cringe.


----------



## Maggie3fan

Is thaqt YOUR s


iAmCentrochelys sulcata said:


> Ok this I’ve never showed this to nobody but when I was 11 or so I made a video of caring for RES. I find it quite funny now. Hope it gets your mood up.
> It’s Cringe.


Is that YOUR squeaky little voice??? hahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha...LOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLROFLMAOROFLMAOROFLMAOROFLMAOROFLMAOROFLMAOROFLMAOROFLMAO...
oh heck....ha


----------



## iAmCentrochelys sulcata

maggie18fan said:


> Is thaqt YOUR s
> 
> Is that YOUR squeaky little voice??? hahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha...LOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLROFLMAOROFLMAOROFLMAOROFLMAOROFLMAOROFLMAOROFLMAOROFLMAO...
> oh heck....ha


Year that was me. I was a late boomer! ?? I cant even watch half of it now.
What do you think of it? 
My voice has definitely changed ALOT


----------



## Maggie3fan

The average person eats about 10 thousand spiders in their sleep at night in a lifetime...

As a kid that info creeped me out...so I tried taping my mouth shut at nite...


----------



## iAmCentrochelys sulcata

maggie18fan said:


> The average person eats about 10 thousand spiders in their sleep at night in a lifetime...
> 
> As a kid that info creeped me out...so I tried taping my mouth shut at nite...


I think this is the wrong thread Mag? ??‍
I don’t believe that tho, I disagree with that but that is creepy


----------



## Maggie3fan

iAmCentrochelys sulcata said:


> Year that was me. I was a late boomer! ?? I cant even watch half of it now.
> What do you think of it?
> My voice has definitely changed ALOT


Sorry...I'll have to watch it again as I really was laughing so hard I couldn't hear it...oh god...lol
I do give a lot of credit to an 11 yr old for already having an interest in reptiles...


----------



## Maggie3fan

iAmCentrochelys sulcata said:


> I think this is the wrong thread Mag? ??‍
> I don’t believe that tho, I disagree with that but that is creepy





iAmCentrochelys sulcata said:


> I think this is the wrong thread Mag? ??‍
> I don’t believe that tho, I disagree with that but that is creepy



HAHA...sorry...(I'm holding my head...sometimes I get SO confused)


----------



## iAmCentrochelys sulcata

maggie18fan said:


> Sorry...I'll have to watch it again as I really was laughing so hard I couldn't hear it...oh god...lol
> I do give a lot of credit to an 11 yr old for already having an interest in reptiles...


I’ve started at the age of 10 but lost interest as the years passed by, BUT losing interest in reptiles isn’t something that happens. I’ve also kept a Albino Leopard gecko she was the Friendliest EVER.


----------



## Maggie3fan

iAmCentrochelys sulcata said:


> I’ve started at the age of 10 but lost interest as the years passed by, BUT losing interest in reptiles isn’t something that happens. I’ve also kept a Albino Leopard gecko she was the Friendliest EVER.


I'm really really wanting a Bearded Dragon...the Mom and Pop pet store that buys my baby birds is selling baby dragons for $60. They seem to be so personable...and I have most of the needed equipment...I'm still fighting the desire...but I might be losing the fight now...I need something NEW...


----------



## iAmCentrochelys sulcata

maggie18fan said:


> I'm really really wanting a Bearded Dragon...the Mom and Pop pet store that buys my baby birds is selling baby dragons for $60. They seem to be so personable...and I have most of the needed equipment...I'm still fighting the desire...but I might be losing the fight now...I need something NEW...


Something I’ll get or want to is a Rhino iguana. But that’s something for later, my parents bought 1 acre.
Also I’m scared of Beardies idk why

Is this @Tom in the video


----------



## KronksMom

Beardies are GREAT pets, Maggie! They're like the dogs of the reptile world, so much personality. And they tend to like humans and contact. There's even a bearded dragon forum connected to our own TFO!


----------



## iAmCentrochelys sulcata

KronksMom said:


> Beardies are GREAT pets, Maggie! They're like the dogs of the reptile world, so much personality. And they tend to like humans and contact. There's even a bearded dragon forum connected to our own TFO!


And what are the Cats of the reptile world?


----------



## KronksMom

That's a good question... who wants attention but only on its own terms? I like the quote "Dogs have owners, cats have support staff." What reptile could that apply to? Maybe some kind of chameleon because they're so tough to care for? I've never had any, so I don't really know.


----------



## iAmCentrochelys sulcata

KronksMom said:


> That's a good question... who wants attention but only on its own terms? I like the quote "Dogs have owners, cats have support staff." What reptile could that apply to? Maybe some kind of chameleon because they're so tough to care for? I've never had any, so I don't really know.


I’ll Say Green Iguanas, from what I’ve seen. I never had any nor playing on having.


----------



## KronksMom

They do have a large feral population, just like cats.


----------



## Suey

Hi here in north west UK, things are getting a bit better . We’ve been through all the empty shelves and long queues everywhere. We can now get toilet rolls, kitchen towel rolls, hand sanitizer. I’ve been after self raising flour for a month now , managed to get plain flour last week. Other empty shelves are pasta, fresh fruit and veg is soon snapped up too. We are lucky to have a small shop opposite us which is good to get bread and milk and other nessesaties. My grandchildren haven’t been school now for weeks. The only good thing I can say is that we have had unusually lovely weather, ( good tortoise weather ? )


----------



## ZEROPILOT

iAmCentrochelys sulcata said:


> I’ll Say Green Iguanas, from what I’ve seen. I never had any nor playing on having.


My lawn is crawling with them.
And they use the place as their bathroom.....Just like a cat.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Suey said:


> Hi here in north west UK, things are getting a bit better . We’ve been through all the empty shelves and long queues everywhere. We can now get toilet rolls, kitchen towel rolls, hand sanitizer. I’ve been after self raising flour for a month now , managed to get plain flour last week. Other empty shelves are pasta, fresh fruit and veg is soon snapped up too. We are lucky to have a small shop opposite us which is good to get bread and milk and other nessesaties. My grandchildren haven’t been school now for weeks. The only good thing I can say is that we have had unusually lovely weather, ( good tortoise weather ? )


We have fruits and vegetables available.
Beef and chicken is sporadic. So is toilet paper.
Hand sanitizer is available, but it's very expensive.
Alcohol is still non existent


----------



## ZEROPILOT

About a month ago I had a low grade fever for 48 hours.
This Tuesday and Wednesday I had another bout. By last night it had reached 101.7.
I had aches and had, let's call it, digestive issues.
I fully expected to go to the doctor today. But when I woke up, my temperature was back to normal. The aches gone.
I find this very odd


----------



## Chubbs the tegu

iAmCentrochelys sulcata said:


> Something I’ll get or want to is a Rhino iguana. But that’s something for later, my parents bought 1 acre.
> Also I’m scared of Beardies idk why
> 
> Is this @Tom in the video


If ur scared of beardies.. good luck with a rhino haha


----------



## Chubbs the tegu

ZEROPILOT said:


> There are now 8 cases of COVID-19 at my mothers home.
> They're all being isolated on the second floor for safety.
> Mom had her test today.
> The results will take a few days


Prayers out to ur mom bro


----------



## iAmCentrochelys sulcata

Chubbs the tegu said:


> If ur scared of beardies.. good luck with a rhino haha


Let me Rephrase it, I’m not Scared of them but I don’t like them. Something about them. I don’t know how to explain, I do however like the Babies not the full grown ones.


----------



## iAmCentrochelys sulcata

ZEROPILOT said:


> My lawn is crawling with them.
> And they use the place as their bathroom.....Just like a cat.


You Own one? Oh wait you live in Florida, I have never ever seen a full grown green iguana in person. They are pretty Rare here.


----------



## Chubbs the tegu

iAmCentrochelys sulcata said:


> You Own one? Oh wait you live in Florida, I have never ever seen a full grown green iguana in person. They are pretty Rare here.


They are a- holes lol


----------



## KronksMom

Yea, iguanas aren't the nicest... Even pet iguana. And, here's a weird fact. Lady iguanas in heat put off a smell almost identical to the way a human woman menstruating smells. So, if you have your period and you're around a male iguana, they can get very aggressive, because they're smelling a lady in need but they can't find her!


----------



## Chubbs the tegu

KronksMom said:


> Yea, iguanas aren't the nicest... Even pet iguana. And, here's a weird fact. Lady iguanas in heat put off a smell almost identical to the way a human woman menstruating smells. So, if you have your period and you're around a male iguana, they can get very aggressive, because they're smelling a lady in need but they can't find her!


I had a male and he was mean to me when i wasnt menstruating haha


----------



## Chubbs the tegu

Only about 4 months a year though


----------



## KronksMom

It can be so hard to get your cycle under control. I feel your pain.


----------



## Chubbs the tegu

It was like a relationship.. had its ups and downs. ..but relationships u usually dont get tail whipped and attempted murder ( well.. usually not) lol


----------



## KronksMom

Yea, a close family friend had an iguana growing up and that thing was just not nice. Some pets can be held and want to be a part of what's going on, some don't. He did not. And I don't think any amount of handling could have changed his attitude.


----------



## Chubbs the tegu

I had mine for 17 years .. he could be very sweet and come over looking for neck rubs .. but once that season came and hormones kicked in he would be hell on wheels


----------



## Chubbs the tegu

I would keep a stuffed dinosaur around to draw his attention away from me.. true story


----------



## KronksMom

Chubbs the tegu said:


> I would keep a stuffed dinosaur around to draw his attention away from me.. true story


If it looks stupid, but it works, it ain't stupid!


----------



## Chubbs the tegu

Definitely works.. that poor dinosaur haha


----------



## iAmCentrochelys sulcata

KronksMom said:


> Yea, iguanas aren't the nicest... Even pet iguana. And, here's a weird fact. Lady iguanas in heat put off a smell almost identical to the way a human woman menstruating smells. So, if you have your period and you're around a male iguana, they can get very aggressive, because they're smelling a lady in need but they can't find her!


?? I didn’t know that! You should post that in my Thread.


----------



## KronksMom

Which thread would that be?


----------



## Chubbs the tegu

Ppl will say stand ur ground when they charge.. that doesnt wrk for all of them lol


----------



## Chubbs the tegu

KronksMom said:


> Which thread would that be?


Iguanas are nasty.. period haha


----------



## iAmCentrochelys sulcata

KronksMom said:


> Which thread would that be?


press Here To view the Thread. ?


----------



## Cathie G

ZEROPILOT said:


> I think Lysol is made by the Clorox company.
> They're in the US


It may have been the wipes only. It was on our local news. I don't know for sure if they know anymore then me.


----------



## Blackdog1714

Got me another gallon of chlorhexadine on Amazon at $17.95! The same price as before COVID!


----------



## Maggie3fan

iAmCentrochelys sulcata said:


> Something I’ll get or want to is a Rhino iguana. But that’s something for later, my parents bought 1 acre.
> Also I’m scared of Beardies idk why
> 
> Is this @Tom in the video


hell...IDK...I couldn't get it to work....


----------



## Maggie3fan

KronksMom said:


> Yea, iguanas aren't the nicest... Even pet iguana. And, here's a weird fact. Lady iguanas in heat put off a smell almost identical to the way a human woman menstruating smells. So, if you have your period and you're around a male iguana, they can get very aggressive, because they're smelling a lady in need but they can't find her!


nasty


----------



## Cathie G

iAmCentrochelys sulcata said:


> You Own one? Oh wait you live in Florida, I have never ever seen a full grown green iguana in person. They are pretty Rare here.


Iguanas aren't really a native Floridian because they are a tourista. If they get lost in the everglades they can grow really large. I have some pictures of some really big ones in Florida. The little anoles are so cute and actually a Floridian. I think they diserve to eat first. ☺


----------



## iAmCentrochelys sulcata

maggie18fan said:


> hell...IDK...I couldn't get it to work....


Type this on YouTube: The end of tortoise Pyramiding 
The video is 1 hour and 25 minutes. Try looking it up I think that it’s Tom.
His name is Thomas Roach right? 
Lmao


----------



## ZEROPILOT

iAmCentrochelys sulcata said:


> You Own one? Oh wait you live in Florida, I have never ever seen a full grown green iguana in person. They are pretty Rare here.


There are literally as common as seeing a bird.
ESPECIALLY in areas where there is a lot of water.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Cathie G said:


> Iguanas aren't really a native Floridian because they are a tourista. If they get lost in the everglades they can grow really large. I have some pictures of some really big ones in Florida. The little anoles are so cute and actually a Floridian. I think they diserve to eat first. ☺


It would seem as though we are growing a slightly different strain here maybe.
They seem to be more and more tolerant of temperatures into the lower 50s.
This is speculative and it might take much longer for this to actually happen. But each Winter, fewer and fewer are dying.
They are breeding prolifically.
The ones you see are probably the great, great grand babies of ones sold as pets.
Nobody in their right mind would have actually purchased one since the late 1990s.
Most of the six footers died in the cool snap a few years ago. The larger ones seem to not be able to tolerate the cool months.
Now it's common to see orange/red males (A sign that he's the king of his territory) as small as 3' long.
They do make HORRIBLE pets.
But they are a possible source of protein if the stuff hits the fan!
In other places where they are found, they are eaten.
The local Haitian population in Florida calls them "Tree Chicken".


----------



## iAmCentrochelys sulcata

ZEROPILOT said:


> There are literally as common as seeing a bird.
> ESPECIALLY in areas where there is a lot of water.


Here in Houston,Texas I haven’t seen any. 
The climate isn’t right. I think, how many in average have you seen?


----------



## ZEROPILOT

There seems to be a misconception with Green Iguanas, Tegus, Python's Parrots, etc.
Sure, they are directly the result of released pets decades ago.
But these are largely not those same animals. These are many, many generations removed.
Many of these invasive animals, insects and plants can and do continue to live, breed and do very well in our tropical environment.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

iAmCentrochelys sulcata said:


> Here in Houston,Texas I haven’t seen any.
> The climate isn’t right. I think, how many in average have you seen?


Geez.
Thousands?
Hundreds of thousands?
It doesn't sound like you fully understand what's going on here.
I'm sure that their numbers are in the millions.


----------



## iAmCentrochelys sulcata

ZEROPILOT said:


> Geez.
> Thousands?
> Hundreds of thousands?
> It doesn't sound like you fully understand what's going on here.
> I'm sure that their numbers are in the millions.


I do understand, I just have NEVER seen one in person.


----------



## Cathie G

ZEROPILOT said:


> It would seem as though we are growing a slightly different strain here maybe.
> They seem to be more and more tolerant of temperatures into the lower 50s.
> This is speculative and it might take much longer for this to actually happen. But each Winter, fewer and fewer are dying.
> They are breeding prolifically.
> The ones you see are probably the great, great grand babies of ones sold as pets.
> Nobody in their right mind would have actually purchased one since the late 1990s.
> Most of the six footers died in the cool snap a few years ago. The larger ones seem to not be able to tolerate the cool months.
> Now it's common to see orange/red males (A sign that he's the king of his territory) as small as 3' long.
> They do make HORRIBLE pets.
> But they are a possible source of protein if the stuff hits the fan!
> In other places where they are found, they are eaten.
> The local Haitian population in Florida calls them "Tree Chicken".


It was around 2003 or 2004 when I snapped the pictures. They were so big! Since they lived outside in the glades, I didn't have to help them. I hate to hear they're probably dead but...I still like the little anoles better.


----------



## iAmCentrochelys sulcata

Cathie G said:


> It was around 2003 or 2004 when I snapped the pictures. They were so big! Since they lived outside in the glades, I didn't have to help them. I hate to hear they're probably dead but...I still like the little anoles better.


Anoles here. I like getting them.


----------



## Cathie G

iAmCentrochelys sulcata said:


> Anoles here. I like getting them.


Yes they're so cute. Once, I was shopping at a Lowe's here after I moved back to Ohio. On a bromeliad in their garden center was a little darling anole. I wanted to bring the little one home so bad. I've seen them live safely with seed eating birds and I have some. I didn't have a way to safely catch and bring it home.


----------



## Maggie3fan

iAmCentrochelys sulcata said:


> I do understand, I just have NEVER seen one in person.


I agree with ZEROPILOT...you don't understand...as a truck driver I made many pick ups and deliveries in Florida...
I'm a native Californian...this is my personal take on Florida...it is so humid, you need to take a shower after you take a shower...stores have visible large bugs climbing around the floor and on the grocery shelves...you WILL wake up in the middle of the night in a motel with lizards climbing around on you and the bed...possibly dropping on you from the ceiling, joining you in the shower and fighting you for your food...you will walk across the floor and crunch megagiant beettle bugs called chicadas (?) and they make loud noise until you think you will go insane...Florida has bigger spiders than Texas...bigger cockroaches...and don't even think about snakes...I like snakes...but the biggest snake I ever saw, zoo's...roadside attractions...or wildlife exhibits...the biggest snake I ever saw was under the truck next to mine and the next truck...and the third truck in a trk stop...Florida is it's own country...
absolutely not much insult meant... ?


----------



## KronksMom

Well you've successfully convinced me that Florida is not the place for me. Lizards, snakes of any size, I'm in. Bugs...never mind. That's why I don't camp. I don't want any bugs in my house, it just seems rude to go hang out in their home.


----------



## Maggie3fan

KronksMom said:


> Well you've successfully convinced me that Florida is not the place for me. Lizards, snakes of any size, I'm in. Bugs...never mind. That's why I don't camp. I don't want any bugs in my house, it just seems rude to go hang out in their home.


I may have a tendency to exaggerate some...lol


----------



## KronksMom

Story time...
I'm originally from Arizona. My father is not. Originally he's from Germany, but he moved to Chicago when he was 1, so we'll call him a Chicagoan. Well. My mother and my godmother gere sitting around the kitchen, in AZ, when they saw a sewer roach (or a wood roach to my southern mother) run from somewhere to under the kitchen table. The ladies made some noise, and my father came in to see "what all the racket was about." When he was told, he said, "Oh jeez, I got it," grabbed a KLEENEX and crawled under the kitchen table. My mother's chest swelled. Look at my man! so Brave! Going after that massive flying roach with nothing but a tissue! Until a second later, when he saw it, and he came wiggling back out as fast as he possibly could, screaming "What the hell is that thing?? That's not a roach! Get me a gun!" 

My poor mother.


----------



## iAmCentrochelys sulcata

KronksMom said:


> Story time...
> I'm originally from Arizona. My father is not. Originally he's from Germany, but he moved to Chicago when he was 1, so we'll call him a Chicagoan. Well. My mother and my godmother gere sitting around the kitchen, in AZ, when they saw a sewer roach (or a wood roach to my southern mother) run from somewhere to under the kitchen table. The ladies made some noise, and my father came in to see "what all the racket was about." When he was told, he said, "Oh jeez, I got it," grabbed a KLEENEX and crawled under the kitchen table. My mother's chest swelled. Look at my man! so Brave! Going after that massive flying roach with nothing but a tissue! Until a second later, when he saw it, and he came wiggling back out as fast as he possibly could, screaming "What the hell is that thing?? That's not a roach! Get me a gun!"
> 
> My poor mother.


??


----------



## Cathie G

maggie18fan said:


> I agree with ZEROPILOT...you don't understand...as a truck driver I made many pick ups and deliveries in Florida...
> I'm a native Californian...this is my personal take on Florida...it is so humid, you need to take a shower after you take a shower...stores have visible large bugs climbing around the floor and on the grocery shelves...you WILL wake up in the middle of the night in a motel with lizards climbing around on you and the bed...possibly dropping on you from the ceiling, joining you in the shower and fighting you for your food...you will walk across the floor and crunch megagiant beettle bugs called chicadas (?) and they make loud noise until you think you will go insane...Florida has bigger spiders than Texas...bigger cockroaches...and don't even think about snakes...I like snakes...but the biggest snake I ever saw, zoo's...roadside attractions...or wildlife exhibits...the biggest snake I ever saw was under the truck next to mine and the next truck...and the third truck in a trk stop...Florida is it's own country...
> absolutely not much insult meant... ?


While I was living in Florida a tourist told me at a McDonald's that they had roaches. The only thing I could say was Florida has roaches. I didn't say they also can fly and some types are large. And just wait until a frog or toad tries to sit on your lap or an alligator decides s/he likes your swimming pool. That's not even mentioning snakes, lizards, spiders, and etc... But it really was beautiful after you become adjusted to it. It is a different lifestyle.


----------



## Cathie G

KronksMom said:


> Story time...
> I'm originally from Arizona. My father is not. Originally he's from Germany, but he moved to Chicago when he was 1, so we'll call him a Chicagoan. Well. My mother and my godmother gere sitting around the kitchen, in AZ, when they saw a sewer roach (or a wood roach to my southern mother) run from somewhere to under the kitchen table. The ladies made some noise, and my father came in to see "what all the racket was about." When he was told, he said, "Oh jeez, I got it," grabbed a KLEENEX and crawled under the kitchen table. My mother's chest swelled. Look at my man! so Brave! Going after that massive flying roach with nothing but a tissue! Until a second later, when he saw it, and he came wiggling back out as fast as he possibly could, screaming "What the hell is that thing?? That's not a roach! Get me a gun!"
> 
> My poor mother.


That's too funny!


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Cathie G said:


> While I was living in Florida a tourist told me at a McDonald's that they had roaches. The only thing I could say was Florida has roaches. I didn't say they also can fly and some types are large. And just wait until a frog or toad tries to sit on your lap or an alligator decides s/he likes your swimming pool. That's not even mentioning snakes, lizards, spiders, and etc... But it really was beautiful after you become adjusted to it. It is a different lifestyle.


Most of the charm has worn off.
I dislike the beach, the ocean, the everglades, the heat, the rain or the people.
The animals are cool. But the novelty has worn out.
I'd sell this overpriced, undersized house tomorrow if my wife would go for it.
It's almost payed off and the market value is just stupid.


----------



## Maro2Bear

ZEROPILOT said:


> Most of the charm has worn off.
> I dislike the beach, the ocean, the everglades, the heat, the rain or the people.
> The animals are cool. But the novelty has worn out.
> I'd sell this overpriced, undersized house tomorrow if my wife would go for it.
> It's almost payed off and the market value is just stupid.



So how far South are you there in Florida? We have been actively searching in the Palm Coast / Flaggler Beach area and like it there. Far enough south that it feels like Florida, but not too yucky humid. Don’t scare me off! ???


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Maro2Bear said:


> So how far South are you there in Florida? We have been actively searching in the Palm Coast / Flaggler Beach area and like it there. Far enough south that it feels like Florida, but not too yucky humid. Don’t scare me off! ???


Area code 33322.
Directly between the Everglades and Fort Lauderdale beach.
It's hot and steamy here.
Like the bathroom right after a shower.
I'm looking at property up north near Lake City.
Still in Florida. Closer to my mother and with a feeling of the south. Great for a retiree because there are no high paying jobs. Property is cheap, too.
It's funny. This far south, all you'll find are Yankees and Caribbean immigrants. All fine people. But I don't seem to fit in sometimes. And I still don't speak much Spanish or Creole despite a 6 year relationship with a Cuban girl.
It's almost like there are three Floridas.
Florida
South Florida 
The Florida Keys


----------



## Cathie G

ZEROPILOT said:


> Most of the charm has worn off.
> I dislike the beach, the ocean, the everglades, the heat, the rain or the people.
> The animals are cool. But the novelty has worn out.
> I'd sell this overpriced, undersized house tomorrow if my wife would go for it.
> It's almost payed off and the market value is just stupid.


Yes. It's a hard life in Florida. I miss the beautiful blue sky with neat looking clouds and the animals though. Even so I'm still enjoying it in Ohio. I have wildlife everyday but one day it's overcast and cold or rainy. Then the next even the weather man can't predict. I do get blue skies here and there.☺ sometimes a rainbow or two.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Cathie G said:


> Yes. It's a hard life in Florida. I miss the beautiful blue sky with neat looking clouds and the animals though. Even so I'm still enjoying it in Ohio. I have wildlife everyday but one day it's overcast and cold or rainy. Then the next even the weather man can't predict. I do get blue skies here and there.☺ sometimes a rainbow or two.


Seasons would be nice.


----------



## Maggie3fan

ZEROPILOT said:


> Seasons would be nice.


Oregon has 2 seasons...rain and more rain...7 months out of 12...


----------



## Cathie G

ZEROPILOT said:


> Seasons would be nice.


A bit further north as you said you'd like would be a good move then. Like you, living in Ohio gets me closer to my family. I hate the cold winters and overcast skies but in some cases that just doesn't matter. They brighten some of my days.?


----------



## Maggie3fan

Cathie G said:


> Yes. It's a hard life in Florida. I miss the beautiful blue sky with neat looking clouds and the animals though. Even so I'm still enjoying it in Ohio. I have wildlife everyday but one day it's overcast and cold or rainy. Then the next even the weather man can't predict. I do get blue skies here and there.☺ sometimes a rainbow or two.


Now wait...are you saying you are not in Lancaster Calif??? Ohio? ha!


----------



## Cathie G

maggie18fan said:


> Now wait...are you saying you are not in Lancaster Calif??? Ohio? ha!


Yea...and there's 50 million lancasters. I was innocently sewing a mask for a biker and the dang global alias was staring me in the face. This is a couple of pictures from a small part of the fabric.


----------



## KarenSoCal

maggie18fan said:


> I may have a tendency to exaggerate some...lol


But not this time. You were pretty much right on! ?????


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Yesterday I saw masks, anti bacterial cleaner, paper towels, toilet paper and bleach at my local Publix supermarket.
I also had my first "sit down" lunch at any restaurant in over 2 months.
It felt almost normal. Except that almost no one else was there and the the staff all had masks on.
We bought extra.
And made 3 meals out of it.


----------



## iAmCentrochelys sulcata

ZEROPILOT said:


> Yesterday I saw masks, anti bacterial cleaner, paper towels, toilet paper and bleach at my local Publix supermarket.
> I also had my first "sit down" lunch at any restaurant in over 2 months.
> It felt almost normal. Except that almost no one else was there and the the staff all had masks on.
> We bought extra.
> And made 3 meals out of it.


That must be nice, I’m trying to cut down on the food. It’s Really Hard.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

iAmCentrochelys sulcata said:


> That must be nice, I’m trying to cut down on the food. It’s Really Hard.


Eating is about all I HAVE been doing regularly.


----------



## Yvonne G

Our governor has set up a phone number for people to report price gouging. So I noticed that my store has stocked up on an off brand of T-paper that no one has heard of before, much less ever known how much it cost for comparison shopping, and the cardboard roll the paper is wound around is BIGGER than the normal T-paper roll. . . so less tissue for more money!


----------



## KarenSoCal

iAmCentrochelys sulcata said:


> That must be nice, I’m trying to cut down on the food. It’s Really Hard.


I did it...so can you! Set your mind toward success.


----------



## iAmCentrochelys sulcata

KarenSoCal said:


> I did it...so can you! Set your mind toward success.


Yeah, I’m in a Calorie Deficit trying to cut down the fat. I do lift weights but that doesn’t help. I Eat whatever I want at whatever time. 
And that’s the problem. I find it hard to stop eating all this Delicious Food. I think my daily calorie was around 4,000. I’m only 15.


----------



## iAmCentrochelys sulcata

KarenSoCal said:


> I did it...so can you! Set your mind toward success.


Yeah, I’m in a Calorie Deficit trying to cut down the fat. I do lift weights but that doesn’t help. I Eat whatever I want at whatever time.
And that’s the problem. I find it hard to stop eating all this Delicious Food. I think my daily calorie was around 4,000. I’m only 15.


ZEROPILOT said:


> Eating is about all I HAVE been doing regularly.



How old are you?


----------



## Cathie G

Yvonne G said:


> Our governor has set up a phone number for people to report price gouging. So I noticed that my store has stocked up on an off brand of T-paper that no one has heard of before, much less ever known how much it cost for comparison shopping, and the cardboard roll the paper is wound around is BIGGER than the normal T-paper roll. . . so less tissue for more money!


You should spill the beans on em...I hated it when they changed the size of newspaper. I need the long type for bird poo paper...?


----------



## ZEROPILOT

iAmCentrochelys sulcata said:


> Yeah, I’m in a Calorie Deficit trying to cut down the fat. I do lift weights but that doesn’t help. I Eat whatever I want at whatever time.
> And that’s the problem. I find it hard to stop eating all this Delicious Food. I think my daily calorie was around 4,000. I’m only 15.
> 
> How old are you?


When I was your age, I ate a lot and even ate ice cream every night to try to gain weight so I'd be a perfect size for football.
But I stayed relatively thin and 6'2 "
Now, I'm 55 years old. I've shrunken to a bit under 6'1" and I've been overweight since i was about 26.
You can get away with things while you're young that will kick your butt later on.
Same thing with broken bones...
Every bone I ever broke that seemed to heal just fine....
All of them have returned in the form of aches and pains.
Take care of yourself now.
Thank yourself later.
I had decades of abusive self behavior and now every day is spent in different levels of pain and discomfort.


----------



## Toddrickfl1

As if the virus wasn't enough, they're currently rioting and burning Atlanta down. I cannot believe what im seeing on the news right now not to far from me.


----------



## Blackdog1714

Richmond is on Cufew from 8 pm to 6 AM! The governor of VA just extended a statewide curfew to Wednesday ?⛈


----------



## KronksMom

Chicago has a 9pm curfew after the riots started friday and continued through the weekend. I hope everyone is staying safe.


----------



## Maggie3fan

Yesterday we had nasty riots in Portland led by antifa...riot in Salem with damage... riot in Eugene and a f'ing peaceful demonstration here in lowly Corvallis with signs and abt 3000 social distanced and masked crowd...way to go Corvallis!!!
It's too obvious that Rodney King taught us nothing...
I was arrested in May of 1995...meaning I was 70 years old...I am 5'6" and 118 lbs and use a cane...the cop grabbed my hood, swinging me around...then body slammed me to the ground, face plant...then jumped on me with a knee in the small of my back...I was not resisting...but there is a kind of reaction you get when you are being unfairly manhandled and it looks like you are fighting back...but I think it is more of a protection reaction rather then resisting....but no matter what that reaction is/was...I did get a resisting arrest too...but I really wasn't...
Stories like this really embarrass my sister...but I am me and these odd stories and experiences are a part of who I am...unfortunately...lol
and now 5 years later the damage to the small of my back is major pain...


----------



## Cathie G

maggie3fan said:


> Yesterday we had nasty riots in Portland led by antifa...riot in Salem with damage... riot in Eugene and a f'ing peaceful demonstration here in lowly Corvallis with signs and abt 3000 social distanced and masked crowd...way to go Corvallis!!!
> It's too obvious that Rodney King taught us nothing...
> I was arrested in May of 1995...meaning I was 70 years old...I am 5'6" and 118 lbs and use a cane...the cop grabbed my hood, swinging me around...then body slammed me to the ground, face plant...then jumped on me with a knee in the small of my back...I was not resisting...but there is a kind of reaction you get when you are being unfairly manhandled and it looks like you are fighting back...but I think it is more of a protection reaction rather then resisting....but no matter what that reaction is/was...I did get a resisting arrest too...but I really wasn't...
> Stories like this really embarrass my sister...but I am me and these odd stories and experiences are a part of who I am...unfortunately...lol
> and now 5 years later the damage to the small of my back is major pain...


Yea. It's not just a black persons problem. I'm a little old white woman. Some people are yellow or brown. I've met a lot of really nice peace officers. But I've also had some kinda officers that treated me like a piece of dirt too...it would be like enacting a law to make people behave themselves and that ain't gonna happen. They sure got scared with the virus though. Maybe they'll wash their hands more often while they're out there rioting.


----------



## Cathie G

Toddrickfl1 said:


> As if the virus wasn't enough, they're currently rioting and burning Atlanta down. I cannot believe what im seeing on the news right now not to far from me.


?


----------



## Cathie G

Toddrickfl1 said:


> As if the virus wasn't enough, they're currently rioting and burning Atlanta down. I cannot believe what im seeing on the news right now not to far from me.


I hope all the idiots slowed down. Atlanta is such a pretty city. Why do that? and burn everything your people managed to establish all these years. I'll bet there's a lot of musicians heartbroken. Or hopefully it didn't go that bad.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

I had to leave my new job due to my back.
(I don't know why I thought I could do a 40 hour a week job)
Today at Walmart MARKETPLACE I saw that the paper isle was fully stocked with paper towels and toilet paper of all brands.
The meat was fully stocked and I bought pork and beef to make chili and a lot of fruit.
I then managed to re apply fiberglass resin to both of the pools in my primary Redfoot pen.
But after I took a shower, I was DONE.
I fell asleep at 4.
Its 9 now.
My life is getting rediculous.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

There is some protesting and graffiti in Broward county.
Some more severe stuff down in Dade county.
But all is calm here in the suburbs. And that's great.
Because today is the first day of hurricane season.


----------



## KarenSoCal

ZEROPILOT said:


> The meat was fully stocked and I bought pork and beef to make chili and a lot of fruit.



I didn't know that's where fruit comes from!! ?


----------



## Maggie3fan

ZEROPILOT said:


> I had to leave my new job due to my back.
> (I don't know why I thought I could do a 40 hour a week job)
> Today at Walmart MARKETPLACE I saw that the paper isle was fully stocked with paper towels and toilet paper of all brands.
> The meat was fully stocked and I bought pork and beef to make chili and a lot of fruit.
> I then managed to re apply fiberglass resin to both of the pools in my primary Redfoot pen.
> But after I took a shower, I was DONE.
> I fell asleep at 4.
> Its 9 now.
> My life is getting rediculous.


lol...Yep...I am kinda laughing at you...a few days ago I turned 75...Seriously, I never expected or wanted to live this long....I didn't take care of myself in any way....
I generally get up between 3 and 4 am....I read the paper and drink coffee for a couple of hours...then I feed and care for every animal I have, and start whatever job I'm gonna do that day...I own a 3 bdrm 2 bath house with big gardens front and back and side yards to care for...I live alone without help...it took me almost 3 weeks to remove whatever blackberries I did...any thing that needs to be done...I have to do it...generally about noon I start to fade...back is killing me and legs don't want to hold me up...I force myself to do some housework...and fade out...my right hand and arm is partially paralyzed and in pain causing anything I attempt to be harder...there is always something to be done and at times I just can't do it...it used to really bother me...so much stuff needs done...but then I realized I can only do what I can do...and if I can't do it today...it will still be there tomorrow...
I guess what I'm trying in my weird way to say is...I understand and I sympathize with you, as your role as a man puts different stresses on you that isn't on me as woman...and I think you are a bunch younger than me...I used to be very bothered by being medically retired from my job at 50...but I came to realize...I don't HAVE to do anything...I have a guaranteed income...a car paid for...a nice paid for house...I do what I want whenever I want...and ya can't beat that with a stick...you now can do what you want and just play with tortoises all damn day if you want...I am sorry you have to go thru these changes my friend...


----------



## Cathie G

ZEROPILOT said:


> There is some protesting and graffiti in Broward county.
> Some more severe stuff down in Dade county.
> But all is calm here in the suburbs. And that's great.
> Because today is the first day of hurricane season.


Yea. They were saying on the news today how many major ones expected and plans for shelters.


----------



## Cathie G

maggie3fan said:


> lol...Yep...I am kinda laughing at you...a few days ago I turned 75...Seriously, I never expected or wanted to live this long....I didn't take care of myself in any way....
> I generally get up between 3 and 4 am....I read the paper and drink coffee for a couple of hours...then I feed and care for every animal I have, and start whatever job I'm gonna do that day...I own a 3 bdrm 2 bath house with big gardens front and back and side yards to care for...I live alone without help...it took me almost 3 weeks to remove whatever blackberries I did...any thing that needs to be done...I have to do it...generally about noon I start to fade...back is killing me and legs don't want to hold me up...I force myself to do some housework...and fade out...my right hand and arm is partially paralyzed and in pain causing anything I attempt to be harder...there is always something to be done and at times I just can't do it...it used to really bother me...so much stuff needs done...but then I realized I can only do what I can do...and if I can't do it today...it will still be there tomorrow...
> I guess what I'm trying in my weird way to say is...I understand and I sympathize with you, as your role as a man puts different stresses on you that isn't on me as woman...and I think you are a bunch younger than me...I used to be very bothered by being medically retired from my job at 50...but I came to realize...I don't HAVE to do anything...I have a guaranteed income...a car paid for...a nice paid for house...I do what I want whenever I want...and ya can't beat that with a stick...you now can do what you want and just play with tortoises all damn day if you want...I am sorry you have to go thru these changes my friend...


I luv you.?Sounds like my life.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

maggie3fan said:


> lol...Yep...I am kinda laughing at you...a few days ago I turned 75...Seriously, I never expected or wanted to live this long....I didn't take care of myself in any way....
> I generally get up between 3 and 4 am....I read the paper and drink coffee for a couple of hours...then I feed and care for every animal I have, and start whatever job I'm gonna do that day...I own a 3 bdrm 2 bath house with big gardens front and back and side yards to care for...I live alone without help...it took me almost 3 weeks to remove whatever blackberries I did...any thing that needs to be done...I have to do it...generally about noon I start to fade...back is killing me and legs don't want to hold me up...I force myself to do some housework...and fade out...my right hand and arm is partially paralyzed and in pain causing anything I attempt to be harder...there is always something to be done and at times I just can't do it...it used to really bother me...so much stuff needs done...but then I realized I can only do what I can do...and if I can't do it today...it will still be there tomorrow...
> I guess what I'm trying in my weird way to say is...I understand and I sympathize with you, as your role as a man puts different stresses on you that isn't on me as woman...and I think you are a bunch younger than me...I used to be very bothered by being medically retired from my job at 50...but I came to realize...I don't HAVE to do anything...I have a guaranteed income...a car paid for...a nice paid for house...I do what I want whenever I want...and ya can't beat that with a stick...you now can do what you want and just play with tortoises all damn day if you want...I am sorry you have to go thru these changes my friend...


Getting old sucks for sure.
But what I've got came on in a 24 month period.
It's very upsetting.
I'm 55 btw.


----------



## Cathie G

ZEROPILOT said:


> Getting old sucks for sure.
> But what I've got came on in a 24 month period.
> It's very upsetting.
> I'm 55 btw.


Yes. That is different that it took only 2 years to show up. I've always had bone problems so I made sure I got plenty of calcium but I still got osteoporosis


----------



## KronksMom

I became perm


maggie3fan said:


> Yesterday we had nasty riots in Portland led by antifa...riot in Salem with damage... riot in Eugene and a f'ing peaceful demonstration here in lowly Corvallis with signs and abt 3000 social distanced and masked crowd...way to go Corvallis!!!
> It's too obvious that Rodney King taught us nothing...
> I was arrested in May of 1995...meaning I was 70 years old...I am 5'6" and 118 lbs and use a cane...the cop grabbed my hood, swinging me around...then body slammed me to the ground, face plant...then jumped on me with a knee in the small of my back...I was not resisting...but there is a kind of reaction you get when you are being unfairly manhandled and it looks like you are fighting back...but I think it is more of a protection reaction rather then resisting....but no matter what that reaction is/was...I did get a resisting arrest too...but I really wasn't...
> Stories like this really embarrass my sister...but I am me and these odd stories and experiences are a part of who I am...unfortunately...lol
> and now 5 years later the damage to the small of my back is major pain...


I worry about this sometimes. I have had a few interactions with the police and I've been very very lucky that they never put their hands on me in any way (at least since I got sick), because if they did I know I would not react well. I have a pain condition, so even a gentle hand on my back is incredibly painful. If anyone asks me to do something, I will comply completely. But if I am touched, I lose the ability to be rational. I just collapse into a ball to try to protect myself from the pain. But it's a pain that doesn't seem rational, so there's no way someone trying to handcuff me would have any patience for my BS...


----------



## KronksMom

ZEROPILOT said:


> Getting old sucks for sure.
> But what I've got came on in a 24 month period.
> It's very upsetting.
> I'm 55 btw.


I was a 19 year old college student who wanted to be a doctor. Then I was a 20 year old permanently disabled cripple who would never walk or work again and every doctor I saw said I needed to just accept it. I did eventually find a doctor who believed I could achieve more, and I learned how to walk again when I was 26. Now, at 33, I am married with a job. I still miss a fair amount of work and have a much more challenging life than most people, but I fight for every day. Most of them I manage to experience with the rest of the world. Against my first 10 or 15 doctors expectations.
When you go from living one way your whole life to living a completely different way, it's ok to mourn the loss of that previous life. It's almost like the old you died. But that doesn't mean that this new you can't have a wonderful fulfilling life. Just as wonderful a life as the previous life, but different. It's all about letting go of the old you and accepting your new life as it is--find the things that make this new life unique and special and worth living. They're there.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

KronksMom said:


> I was a 19 year old college student who wanted to be a doctor. Then I was a 20 year old permanently disabled cripple who would never walk or work again and every doctor I saw said I needed to just accept it. I did eventually find a doctor who believed I could achieve more, and I learned how to walk again when I was 26. Now, at 33, I am married with a job. I still miss a fair amount of work and have a much more challenging life than most people, but I fight for every day. Most of them I manage to experience with the rest of the world. Against my first 10 or 15 doctors expectations.
> When you go from living one way your whole life to living a completely different way, it's ok to mourn the loss of that previous life. It's almost like the old you died. But that doesn't mean that this new you can't have a wonderful fulfilling life. Just as wonderful a life as the previous life, but different. It's all about letting go of the old you and accepting your new life as it is--find the things that make this new life unique and special and worth living. They're there.


Very well said
And very inspirational


----------



## Cathie G

KronksMom said:


> I was a 19 year old college student who wanted to be a doctor. Then I was a 20 year old permanently disabled cripple who would never walk or work again and every doctor I saw said I needed to just accept it. I did eventually find a doctor who believed I could achieve more, and I learned how to walk again when I was 26. Now, at 33, I am married with a job. I still miss a fair amount of work and have a much more challenging life than most people, but I fight for every day. Most of them I manage to experience with the rest of the world. Against my first 10 or 15 doctors expectations.
> When you go from living one way your whole life to living a completely different way, it's ok to mourn the loss of that previous life. It's almost like the old you died. But that doesn't mean that this new you can't have a wonderful fulfilling life. Just as wonderful a life as the previous life, but different. It's all about letting go of the old you and accepting your new life as it is--find the things that make this new life unique and special and worth living. They're there.


Yes. I have this bird in my yard that starts running his beak at 4am and doesn't stop all day. I'm old with breathing issues so I was considering a bb gun. But...now I get upset if he doesn't wake me up for my morning thankyous.?


----------



## ZEROPILOT

My neighbor bought this to me today.
Something that money can not buy....
A 4 pack of Lysol aerosol spray cans.
I haven't seen a single can since January


----------



## Maggie3fan

KronksMom said:


> I became perm
> 
> I worry about this sometimes. I have had a few interactions with the police and I've been very very lucky that they never put their hands on me in any way (at least since I got sick), because if they did I know I would not react well. I have a pain condition, so even a gentle hand on my back is incredibly painful. If anyone asks me to do something, I will comply completely. But if I am touched, I lose the ability to be rational. I just collapse into a ball to try to protect myself from the pain. But it's a pain that doesn't seem rational, so there's no way someone trying to handcuff me would have any patience for my BS...


So then you would understand why I was shouting I am NOT resisting but please don't handcuff my right arm...I have CRPS...and they yanked my arm behind my back, and I passed out...


----------



## KronksMom

Holy ****. You have CRPS? Me too!!!


----------



## KronksMom

I understand completely.


----------



## Maggie3fan

KronksMom said:


> Holy ****. You have CRPS? Me too!!!


Yeah...in my right hand and arm...I won and spent a pretty good W/C case. Now my pain is constantly 7-8, I am a recovering addict so I can't take any type of pain killers...so some times...yeah...


----------



## KronksMom

That's awful. I don't know how I would get by without something to take the edge off. Though for the first I don't know how many years every doctor was just like "Man, she's in a lot of pain, we'd better just keep giving her more drugs." I was just kept so stoned that I couldn't have a conversation. I wasn't even able to form memories for several years. So anything that happened during that time is just a blank. So opiates definitely don't just make everything better. But I finally found a good doctor, one of the world's leading experts on CRPS, and he told me many times, he would be willing to fight for my life just as hard as I was willing to fight for it. Now I am married, living on my own (you know, with my amazing husband), and even working. Now I take very little pain meds, and prefer to go in for surgery whenever it gets to be too much to handle. I'll be having my next series of epidural injections next month. A good surgeon, not good drugs, is really what helps. Also, I've had a spinal cord stimulator since 2007 and I upgraded to a dorsal root ganglion stimulator in 2017. I think I liked the OG stim better, but either one is better than having nothing.


----------



## Cathie G

ZEROPILOT said:


> My neighbor bought this to me today.
> Something that money can not buy....
> A 4 pack of Lysol aerosol spray cans.
> I haven't seen a single can since January


I heard on the news that those kind of cleaners are made in China and that's why they are hard to find. I don't know how true that is.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Cathie G said:


> I heard on the news that those kind of cleaners are made in China and that's why they are hard to find. I don't know how true that is.


Could be true.
Everything in America comes by way of China


----------



## Pastel Tortie

ZEROPILOT said:


> My neighbor bought this to me today.
> Something that money can not buy....
> A 4 pack of Lysol aerosol spray cans.
> I haven't seen a single can since January


For the first time in months, my local Publix (in Tallahassee) had hand sanitizer for sale last week. Lysol aerosol spray cans, on the other hand... Still nada.


----------



## Cathie G

Pastel Tortie said:


> For the first time in months, my local Publix (in Tallahassee) had hand sanitizer for sale last week. Lysol aerosol spray cans, on the other hand... Still nada.


I saw gallon jugs of hand sanitizer in a "save a lot" the past week in Ohio. That's also a chain of pretty good grocery stores in Florida. I'm not sure if you would have the same products.


----------



## Maggie3fan

Sometimes it's necessary to do things you shouldn't outta do...so even tho I have been isolating well...and I'm hurting like hell...I hadda go to town...too cold for the torts to go out...storming and raining...need tort food...might as well shop...since we are in stage 2 of opening Oregon I did not expect what I experienced...so many people in the store at 7 am...kids w/parents and no masks...guess social distancing and one way aisles are a thing of the past...shelves were full...I probably should hoard some hand sanitizer and send it to ya'll...I'm going to keep protecting myself as there were 5 new cases today in Benton county and 3 deaths...this thing ain't over, dumba**es...there's gonna be another wave of COVID-19...Liberal Oregon is opening up too soon...and numerous businesses who aren't supposed to open are...


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Cathie G said:


> I saw gallon jugs of hand sanitizer in a "save a lot" the past week in Ohio. That's also a chain of pretty good grocery stores in Florida. I'm not sure if you would have the same products.


I purchased two gallons online. About $55 per gallon.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

maggie3fan said:


> Sometimes it's necessary to do things you shouldn't outta do...so even tho I have been isolating well...and I'm hurting like hell...I hadda go to town...too cold for the torts to go out...storming and raining...need tort food...might as well shop...since we are in stage 2 of opening Oregon I did not expect what I experienced...so many people in the store at 7 am...kids w/parents and no masks...guess social distancing and one way aisles are a thing of the past...shelves were full...I probably should hoard some hand sanitizer and send it to ya'll...I'm going to keep protecting myself as there were 5 new cases today in Benton county and 3 deaths...this thing ain't over, dumba**es...there's gonna be another wave of COVID-19...Liberal Oregon is opening up too soon...and numerous businesses who aren't supposed to open are...


The second wave is coming. Period.
At least it looks like we'll have more supplies available this time.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Publix and Walmart MARKETPLACE both are stocked with toilet paper and paper towels and some hand sanitizer.
Still no Lysol and no 71% or higher alcohol.
The shopping carts are sprayed with some sort of disinfectant and there are hand sanitizer stations throughout.
There are still only a certain amount of customers allowed in at a time.
Face masks are still required and there are still ONE WAY arrows affixed to the shopping isles.
And those arrows are still being ignored. Because much like COVID-19, there is no cure for stupid.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

My wife and I went back to an Italian restaurant that we "discovered" two weeks ago that is huge inside and offers limited indoor seating.
Risky for sure.
Buca di pepo 
They have a very unusual pizza with sausage, pepperoni, roasted red onion, mozzarella and gorgonzola cheeses. It happens to be the best (and most expensive) pizza I've ever eaten.
So if you hear that I have COVID-19.....I got it because I'm a dumb *** that likes pizza.


----------



## Pastel Tortie

ZEROPILOT said:


> I purchased two gallons online. About $55 per gallon.


I'm not that desperate... We try to keep enough of a variety of products on hand at home to be able to work around various product shortages. At least on the cleaning and disinfection side, anyhow.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Gas is still hovering around $1.85 a gallon.
Puzzling.
Because I live pretty close to the port of Fort Lauderdale.
Logic would make me think it'd be cheaper here.
It never is.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Pastel Tortie said:


> I'm not that desperate... We try to keep enough of a variety of products on hand at home to be able to work around various product shortages. At least on the cleaning and disinfection side, anyhow.


I have a big selection right now.
Although we've shared/traded and given away a lot of it, I've been reluctant to use most of it.
Like if not now....When?
For example, I haven't used a single drop of that Lysol.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Hand sanitizer on the other hand...
Anytime I touch anything...
I squirt some on my hands


----------



## Pastel Tortie

ZEROPILOT said:


> Publix and Walmart MARKETPLACE both are stocked with toilet paper and paper towels and some hand sanitizer.
> Still no Lysol and no 71% or higher alcohol.
> The shopping carts are sprayed with some sort of disinfectant and there are hand sanitizer stations throughout.
> There are still only a certain amount of customers allowed in at a time.
> Face masks are still required and there are still ONE WAY arrows affixed to the shopping isles.
> And those arrows are still being ignored. Because much like COVID-19, there is no cure for stupid.


I've noticed the ability of individuals to follow the directional one way signs for the aisles in my local Publix store seems to depend on the time of day (the later it is, the less they care or pay attention) and whether this is "routine" for the person doing the shopping (the less routine it is for that individual, for whatever reason, the less they comply). That's my strictly anecdotal take on it, disclaimers apply.


----------



## Cathie G

ZEROPILOT said:


> I purchased two gallons online. About $55 per gallon.


That's a pretty steep price. I'm not sure if the save a lots in your state are the same products but...a gallon of hand sanitizer didn't cost that. It was more like $10. I don't really use it at home so I haven't bought any. I just use Lysol wipes now and then. It's nice to have a little spritzer while shopping though.


----------



## Cathie G

Pastel Tortie said:


> I've noticed the ability of individuals to follow the directional one way signs for the aisles in my local Publix store seems to depend on the time of day (the later it is, the less they care or pay attention) and whether this is "routine" for the person doing the shopping (the less routine it is for that individual, for whatever reason, the less they comply). That's my strictly anecdotal take on it, disclaimers apply.


If I see an aisle I'm needing things and can social distance (or it's empty) and not behave the so called traffic laws I go for it. I do however behave when I'm driving. Hay I'm old. They are just making it harder and harder for me to do my shopping.?


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Cathie G said:


> That's a pretty steep price. I'm not sure if the save a lots in your state are the same products but...a gallon of hand sanitizer didn't cost that. It was more like $10. I don't really use it at home so I haven't bought any. I just use Lysol wipes now and then. It's nice to have a little spritzer while shopping though.


$55 was the price at the time.
I'm sure it isn't the normal retail price.


----------



## Cathie G

I couldn't believe I was seeing a gallon jug in a grocery store. I really didn't pay much attention to it. I've always kept it here at home but I'm always so close to a sink to wash my hands, I don't really use it. Having some when I shop for necessary things is ok. Most stores I visit have the sanitizing wipes so I use them on their carts and my hands on the way in and out. Only my favorite grocery store doesn't have them right now. They do however have employees cleaning their carts. BUT I still want the sanitizing wipes. The dang cheap skates. I know the wipes are available because the other stores have them. I hope I don't pull a Maggie on them soon. By their quantity limits they just make me (a very high risk person) have to go out more often.? My friends there will hopefully just shoe me out.


----------



## Cathie G

ZEROPILOT said:


> My wife and I went back to an Italian restaurant that we "discovered" two weeks ago that is huge inside and offers limited indoor seating.
> Risky for sure.
> Buca di pepo
> They have a very unusual pizza with sausage, pepperoni, roasted red onion, mozzarella and gorgonzola cheeses. It happens to be the best (and most expensive) pizza I've ever eaten.
> So if you hear that I have COVID-19.....I got it because I'm a dumb *** that likes pizza.


?I'm sure they did the best they could to keep themselves and their customers safe.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Cathie G said:


> ?I'm sure they did the best they could to keep themselves and their customers safe.


They're doing what they can to stay in existence


----------



## Cathie G

ZEROPILOT said:


> They're doing what they can to stay in existence


Yes I hope our stores can stay open. I really don't like shopping online. I only do that if I can't find what I need around town.


----------



## Cathie G

Has anyone looked at the pangolin info? relating to the corona virus.?


----------



## Yvonne G

I'm wondering if chewy.com thinks they're fooling us into not knowing they're price gouging by raising prices in increments. I bought Reptibark for $15 prior to covid-19, then $16 after the virus, and it was $17 a couple weeks ago and today it's $18!


----------



## ZEROPILOT

There are now 9 residents with COVID-19 at my mothers nursing home and 2 infected staff.


----------



## KarenSoCal

ZEROPILOT said:


> There are now 9 residents with COVID-19 at my mothers nursing home and 2 infected staff.


Oh no! I'm so sorry that you have this constant worry! Since I'm quite sure you have ruled out the possibility of bringing her home with you for a while, all I can do for you both is pray. And that I have already been doing. ?


----------



## ZEROPILOT

KarenSoCal said:


> Oh no! I'm so sorry that you have this constant worry! Since I'm quite sure you have ruled out the possibility of bringing her home with you for a while, all I can do for you both is pray. And that I have already been doing. ?


She's in Georgia.
I'm in Florida, 600 miles away.
She has many medical issues and requires around the clock care. 
The facility uses her monthly social security payment, some cash from myself, Medicare and Medicaid and the two states don't have any sort of reciprocity. So simply moving her becomes extremely difficult. 
She'd need to be in a nursing home if she was in Florida also. I'm in no condition to provide that kind of intensive care. And
It would take many months to get everything approved. (If it even was a certainty)
When I met my wife, her mother was in the final stages of Alzheimers disease and she and I moved her from one specialized facility to the next. She was beaten, had items stolen and at one point became malnourished.
I have no faith in any facility (here) nearby. And I'm very pleased with the care where she is (there) and with the management and nursing staff.
There are too many reasons to keep her at her current facility.
We are in almost daily contact in regards to her care.
Couple that with the fact that even if everything else was equal, Broward Florida is also a horrible place for COVID-19 and nursing homes.
Mom has her own phone. We speak each day and she seems to not have much concept of time. So not visiting right now hasn't been a big issue yet.
This is something I approach on a day to day basis


----------



## KarenSoCal

ZEROPILOT said:


> She's in Georgia.
> I'm in Florida, 600 miles away.
> She has many medical issues and requires around the clock care.
> The facility uses her monthly social security payment, some cash from myself, Medicare and Medicaid and the two states don't have any sort of reciprocity. So simply moving her becomes extremely difficult.
> She'd need to be in a nursing home if she was in Florida also. I'm in no condition to provide that kind of intensive care. And
> It would take many months to get everything approved. (If it even was a certainty)
> When I met my wife, her mother was in the final stages of Alzheimers disease and she and I moved her from one specialized facility to the next. She was beaten, had items stolen and at one point became malnourished.
> I have no faith in any facility (here) nearby. And I'm very pleased with the care where she is (there) and with the management and nursing staff.
> There are too many reasons to keep her at her current facility.
> We are in almost daily contact in regards to her care.
> Couple that with the fact that even if everything else was equal, Broward Florida is also a horrible place for COVID-19 and nursing homes.
> Mom has her own phone. We speak each day and she seems to not have much concept of time. So not visiting right now hasn't been a big issue yet.
> This is something I approach on a day to day basis


Is she aware of covid-19 and the havoc it is causing?


----------



## Yvonne G

ZEROPILOT said:


> There are now 9 residents with COVID-19 at my mothers nursing home and 2 infected staff.


This is NOT good news! Fingers crossed it doesn't reach your mom.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

KarenSoCal said:


> Is she aware of covid-19 and the havoc it is causing?


Yes.
But keeps thinking it's just a local inconvenience


----------



## Cathie G

ZEROPILOT said:


> There are now 9 residents with COVID-19 at my mothers nursing home and 2 infected staff.


I'll be praying for your mother. It seems like infected staff would have to be bringing it in in the first place. It doesn't mysteriously blow in the window. They need a better way to handle nursing homes. The families aren't allowed in but the staff has to. The staff should be acting as if they themselves have it...and wear protective gear while caring for their patients.


----------



## Maggie3fan

ZEROPILOT said:


> Gas is still hovering around $1.85 a gallon.
> Puzzling.
> Because I live pretty close to the port of Fort Lauderdale.
> Logic would make me think it'd be cheaper here.
> It never is.


Duh ugh My gas is cheap as heck, cheaper than I have seen it in a long time...$2.85, I filled up the damn tank even tho I don't go any where


----------



## Maggie3fan

Went to my Dr this am for my back. He came into the room in full PPI. 2 freakin respirators, full face cover, full body covering. I said, "you're kidding, right?"...nope, serious. That was about the last thing I understood due to I can't remember to put in my new hearing aids and he was talking thru a lot of covering. I'm really not joking. I got just as tired of saying huh? as he got hearing it, so I just quit. This is what I heard for sure in a 1/2 hr visit, MRI, surgery, steroids. I am home now, really confused and mad at myself for not being more aggressive, but damn, I'm just in so much pain now that's about all I can think about. Basically I'm alright. and I will be better.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Cathie G said:


> I'll be praying for your mother. It seems like infected staff would have to be bringing it in in the first place. It doesn't mysteriously blow in the window. They need a better way to handle nursing homes. The families aren't allowed in but the staff has to. The staff should be acting as if they themselves have it...and wear protective gear while caring for their patients.


Everyone is learning as they go.
I've been told that 8 of the 9 Covid residents are asymptomatic. So, it'd be easy to overlook.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

maggie3fan said:


> Went to my Dr this am for my back. He came into the room in full PPI. 2 freakin respirators, full face cover, full body covering. I said, "you're kidding, right?"...nope, serious. That was about the last thing I understood due to I can't remember to put in my new hearing aids and he was talking thru a lot of covering. I'm really not joking. I got just as tired of saying huh? as he got hearing it, so I just quit. This is what I heard for sure in a 1/2 hr visit, MRI, surgery, steroids. I am home now, really confused and mad at myself for not being more aggressive, but damn, I'm just in so much pain now that's about all I can think about. Basically I'm alright. and I will be better.


I've got the same prognosis.
New MRIs. More back surgery and a steroid pack...That I'm picking up at Walgreens later on today.
May our backs both be better soon.


----------



## Cathie G

ZEROPILOT said:


> Everyone is learning as they go.
> I've been told that 8 of the 9 Covid residents are asymptomatic. So, it'd be easy to overlook.


Yes. When I ask about my daughter in law (that voluntered) and all...my son. says they could be asymptomatic.


----------



## Cathie G

maggie3fan said:


> Went to my Dr this am for my back. He came into the room in full PPI. 2 freakin respirators, full face cover, full body covering. I said, "you're kidding, right?"...nope, serious. That was about the last thing I understood due to I can't remember to put in my new hearing aids and he was talking thru a lot of covering. I'm really not joking. I got just as tired of saying huh? as he got hearing it, so I just quit. This is what I heard for sure in a 1/2 hr visit, MRI, surgery, steroids. I am home now, really confused and mad at myself for not being more aggressive, but damn, I'm just in so much pain now that's about all I can think about. Basically I'm alright. and I will be better.


I hate it when people put their phone on speaker phone so they can lay on their butt...I have enough of a hard time hearing them. I can just about imagine your annoyance level at that point. And then to have them come into your room looking like who knows what...I hope your pain subsides soon.?


----------



## Maggie3fan

ZEROPILOT said:


> Everyone is learning as they go.
> I've been told that 8 of the 9 Covid residents are asymptomatic. So, it'd be easy to overlook.


What is asymptomatic???


----------



## Cathie G

maggie3fan said:


> What is asymptomatic???


It means they are carrying and spreading the virus But...it's not making that person sick.


----------



## Denisthetortoise16

Toddrickfl1 said:


> It's getting a little sketchy here in GA. Everything closing, stores empty. People acting irrational. Be mindful of germs and stay safe out there tortoise forum friends.
> View attachment 287906
> View attachment 287907
> View attachment 287908
> View attachment 287909
> 
> [/QUOTE/]
> It’s the same over here in the U.K.


----------



## Maggie3fan

I believe that living in Corvallis is kinda like living in a protected bubble. Our shelves are full, stores are mostly empty of people, traffic is almost non-existent, Oregon is opening, virus cases are rising, and Dale Earnhardt Jr is driving in today's race, without seat time for 5 years, no practice runs, no qualifying. I predict he will not finish in the top 10...?


----------



## mark1

Cathie G said:


> It means they are carrying and spreading the virus But...it's not making that person sick.



asymptomatic actually just means without symptoms and you will never have symptoms even though you have , in this case , covid ….. as far as an asymptomatic person spreading the virus , I think they are questioning just how often that happens , leaning toward it being rare ……… the people without symptoms that are more likely to spread covid are pre-symptomatic people , people who will have symptoms , just haven't had them yet , that 14 day window …..…..


----------



## Pastel Tortie

When I went grocery shopping Thursday afternoon, my local Publix had some of the items I hadn't seen in months, or that I've only seen in the last week or two.. They actually had the blue Dawn dishwashing liquid. Not a lot of it, but they did have it. They had hand sanitizer (modest sizes and quantities) and liquid hand soap (not the brand I wanted, but at least they had it). 

There were still empty sections of shelves in the paper towel section, but the toilet paper side of the aisle was filled in. Granted, much of that space was filled with individually packaged (single) rolls of toilet paper for purchase at $0.79 each. Imagine 8 or 10 feet of shelf space filled with single rolls of toilet paper, wrapped individually in opaque packaging that looked like paper, versus the clear plastic packaging we're used to.


----------



## Pastel Tortie

The pricing on paper towels and toilet paper is, well, downright painful. I don't know how much the base prices on these items have actually increased, but Publix isn't putting any these paper products on sale any more. Not that anyone else would have them in sale now, at least not in a brick-and-mortar store. Still... Before COVID, I normally wouldn't buy those products except when they were on sale. The sales Publix used to have regularly would drop the cost probably $3-$7 per package on higher end, name brand paper towels and toilet paper.


----------



## Pastel Tortie

maggie3fan said:


> I believe that living in Corvallis is kinda like living in a protected bubble. Our shelves are full, stores are mostly empty of people, traffic is almost non-existent, Oregon is opening, virus cases are rising, and Dale Earnhardt Jr is driving in today's race, without seat time for 5 years, no practice runs, no qualifying. I predict he will not finish in the top 10...?


So he's not going to be at his car dealership in Tallahassee today, is he? ?


----------



## EllyMae

Stores now have hand sanitizer here. All of it is brands I’ve never heard of, and they smell terrible! 
hard to explain. Chemically, and wrong.
I went through my desk at work this week and found a small thing of purell. Jackpot!


----------



## Pastel Tortie

My household doesn't normally use much hand sanitizer...but we do stock it for hurricane season. The regular liquid hand soap doesn't work nearly as well without water...


----------



## Cathie G

mark1 said:


> asymptomatic actually just means without symptoms and you will never have symptoms even though you have , in this case , covid ….. as far as an asymptomatic person spreading the virus , I think they are questioning just how often that happens , leaning toward it being rare ……… the people without symptoms that are more likely to spread covid are pre-symptomatic people , people who will have symptoms , just haven't had them yet , that 14 day window …..…..


Yep. It just really depends on each person's response also. I need a mask handy anyway because of allergies and it's summer. Sew I stitched some.


----------



## Maggie3fan

Pastel Tortie said:


> So he's not going to be at his car dealership in Tallahassee today, is he? ?


He's running third right now, looks like I 'may' have to eat my words. Is it a Chevy dealership? You ever go see him?


----------



## Cathie G

Pastel Tortie said:


> My household doesn't normally use much hand sanitizer...but we do stock it for hurricane season. The regular liquid hand soap doesn't work nearly as well without water...


Yea...I found stockpiles around the house. (in every room...turdess room included). I even had 92% alcohol and Lysol wipes. I keep the alcohol as a fly killer...I have to say I give them a fighting chance though. Go out the door or get fried.


----------



## Pastel Tortie

maggie3fan said:


> He's running third right now, looks like I 'may' have to eat my words. Is it a Chevy dealership? You ever go see him?


Yes, it's a Chevy dealership. I don't go see him, but they do a fair amount of business. I know someone who got a good deal on a new truck recently.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Pastel Tortie said:


> Yes, it's a Chevy dealership. I don't go see him, but they do a fair amount of business. I know someone who got a good deal on a new truck recently.


(No comment from me on any recently made GM vehicle)
But I am somewhat relieved that the panic buying and hoarding might be ending soon.
The virus certainly isn't.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Why has gasoline been steadily creeping back up?
It's still like negative $30 a barrel.
So $2 a gallon is quite a mark up considering.


----------



## Maggie3fan

Cathie G said:


> Yea...I found stockpiles around the house. (in every room...turdess room included). I even had 92% alcohol and Lysol wipes. I keep the alcohol as a fly killer...I have to say I give them a fighting chance though. Go out the door or get fried.


Ok, I'm 75. I grew up in San Francisco, the 4th child of middle-class Catholic parents. My Dad was a Graphic Artist with an office in downtown SF.
When I was 3 or 4 we had a major polio outbreak similar to Covid 19. My mother contracted the disease. It was rumored that a fly walked across her food, and Ma got polio. My Dad became obsessed with flies. He bought Raid by the gallon. When he thought he saw a fly he went crazy with the fly spray, he would fog a whole room regardless of who was in that room. I always thought that was how I'd die. My Dad would fog a room, us kids would die. But, alas, I lived thru it, and to this day I use a fly swatter, no fly poison in MY house...lol


----------



## Maggie3fan

ZEROPILOT said:


> Why has gasoline been steadily creeping back up?
> It's still like negative $30 a barrel.
> So $2 a gallon is quite a mark up considering.


Might be a mark up for you, but I am used to paying almost $4 a gallon, so $2.85 is a major discount for me. And I realized, I use premium not regular in my high compression hot rod motor. So it is $2.85 for premium. 

OMG!OMG!OMG! I just realized I am standing here relatively pain free! Really? Let's walk, oh yeah not too bad


----------



## Yvonne G

maggie3fan said:


> Ok, I'm 75. I grew up in San Francisco, the 4th child of middle-class Catholic parents. My Dad was a Graphic Artist with an office in downtown SF.
> When I was 3 or 4 we had a major polio outbreak similar to Covid 19. My mother contracted the disease. It was rumored that a fly walked across her food, and Ma got polio. My Dad became obsessed with flies. He bought Raid by the gallon. When he thought he saw a fly he went crazy with the fly spray, he would fog a whole room regardless of who was in that room. I always thought that was how I'd die. My Dad would fog a room, us kids would die. But, alas, I lived thru it, and to this day I use a fly swatter, no fly poison in MY house...lol


I'd like to correct just one little item in your story: Dad went crazy buying "Flit." It was an old time pump sprayer similar to this:




I remember going around with a numb tongue tip and a bad taste in my mouth most of the time. Didn't affect my child bearing (I had three) or health, though. The only thing I've got going on really is the occasional skin cancer. . . and I'm pretty old!


----------



## jaizei

Yvonne G said:


> I'd like to correct just one little item in your story: Dad went crazy buying "Flit." It was an old time pump sprayer similar to this:
> 
> View attachment 297306
> 
> 
> I remember going around with a numb tongue tip and a bad taste in my mouth most of the time. Didn't affect my child bearing (I had three) or health, though. The only thing I've got going on really is the occasional skin cancer. . . and I'm pretty old!



I remember seeing those in cartoons and never thought about or saw irl.


----------



## Yvonne G

jaizei said:


> I remember seeing those in cartoons and never thought about or saw irl.


Yeah, we had all kinds of neat stuff in the "olden days."


----------



## Maggie3fan

Yvonne G said:


> I'd like to correct just one little item in your story: Dad went crazy buying "Flit." It was an old time pump sprayer similar to this:
> 
> View attachment 297306
> 
> 
> I remember going around with a numb tongue tip and a bad taste in my mouth most of the time. Didn't affect my child bearing (I had three) or health, though. The only thing I've got going on really is the occasional skin cancer. . . and I'm pretty old!


Oh yes! Now I do remember that. Oh my, so frankly, for once I did not exaggerate, he really did lay out a toxic cloud...lol


----------



## Cathie G

maggie3fan said:


> Ok, I'm 75. I grew up in San Francisco, the 4th child of middle-class Catholic parents. My Dad was a Graphic Artist with an office in downtown SF.
> When I was 3 or 4 we had a major polio outbreak similar to Covid 19. My mother contracted the disease. It was rumored that a fly walked across her food, and Ma got polio. My Dad became obsessed with flies. He bought Raid by the gallon. When he thought he saw a fly he went crazy with the fly spray, he would fog a whole room regardless of who was in that room. I always thought that was how I'd die. My Dad would fog a room, us kids would die. But, alas, I lived thru it, and to this day I use a fly swatter, no fly poison in MY house...lol


The three day measles is what produced my brother. My mother contracted it. He's profoundly deaf. Many other birth defects but he's so much fun. The good outweighs the bad. I hardly ever use poison. I don't want my pet bugs and wildlife dead. But I'll be darned if I'll let a fly land on every thing in my house. If it won't fly outside then It's going to get drunk And die on 92% alcohol. Sometimes I trap it first for a nice spider meal. Either way is ok with me...


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Cathie G said:


> The three day measles is what produced my brother. My mother contracted it. He's profoundly deaf. Many other birth defects but he's so much fun. The good outweighs the bad. I hardly ever use poison. I don't want my pet bugs and wildlife dead. But I'll be darned if I'll let a fly land on every thing in my house. If it won't fly outside then It's going to get drunk And die on 92% alcohol. Sometimes I trap it first for a nice spider meal. Either way is ok with me...


Clearly you've never met a giant Florida cockroach.....


----------



## Cathie G

maggie3fan said:


> Might be a mark up for you, but I am used to paying almost $4 a gallon, so $2.85 is a major discount for me. And I realized, I use premium not regular in my high compression hot rod motor. So it is $2.85 for premium.
> 
> OMG!OMG!OMG! I just realized I am standing here relatively pain free! Really? Let's walk, oh yeah not too bad


No pain is worth millions... Yea!!!


----------



## Maggie3fan

ZEROPILOT said:


> Clearly you've never met a giant Florida cockroach.....


I can take a lot of different bugs, but Florida's giant cockroaches are scary, nauseating, gross, and there are not enuf adjectives to describe those nasty bugs. The worst, they get into your bed. So nasty


----------



## Cathie G

ZEROPILOT said:


> Clearly you've never met a giant Florida cockroach.....


Well...I did live in southwest Florida in the country. Are you talking about the palmetto, mosquito, native roaches, or what bug etc etc? If you kill all the bugs how you gonna keep all the wildlife happy so you don't get ate??


----------



## ZEROPILOT

maggie3fan said:


> I can take a lot of different bugs, but Florida's giant cockroaches are scary, nauseating, gross, and there are not enuf adjectives to describe those nasty bugs. The worst, they get into your bed. So nasty


Thank GOD they don't usually make it that far.
They die between the garage/laundry room door and the hallway.
They have a gauntlet of poison to get past along the way and the garage is an active war zone.
Only the strongest, largest get that far....


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Cathie G said:


> Well...I did live in southwest Florida in the country. Are you talking about the palmetto, mosquito, native roaches, or what bug etc etc? If you kill all the bugs how you gonna keep all the wildlife happy so you don't get ate??


The ones we call Palmetto bugs.
I believe @Tom identified them as common American cockroaches. They just get extra large here.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

A few weeks ago, one got into the house at about 1 am.
It was walking upside down on the ceiling on wobbly legs. Clearly dying from poisoning.
But aside from their lightning fast speed, the creepy part is that they can fly. Not very well. And one dying on the ceiling will 100% fly and land on YOU.
No matter how large your house is.


----------



## Maggie3fan

ZEROPILOT said:


> Thank GOD they don't usually make it that far.
> They die between the garage/laundry room door and the hallway.
> They have a gauntlet of poison to get past along the way and the garage is an active war zone.
> Only the strongest, largest get that far....


I was in a motel while my truck was worked on. My partner was a 30 lb long-haired black cat named Big Bubba. Big badassed cat, ornery, mean and stubborn and... afraid of those bugs. So freakin funny to see this large cat practically pulling up his skirts and jumping up on the bathroom counter. Oh track is dry, race is starting...I'm outa here


----------



## Maggie3fan

ZEROPILOT said:


> A few weeks ago, one got into the house at about 1 am.
> It was walking upside down on the ceiling on wobbly legs. Clearly dying from poisoning.
> But aside from their lightning fast speed, the creepy part is that they can fly. Not very well. And one dying on the ceiling will 100% fly and land on YOU.
> No matter how large your house is.


Thanks ever, so creeped me out


----------



## Cathie G

ZEROPILOT said:


> The ones we call Palmetto bugs.
> I believe @Tom identified them as common American cockroaches. They just get extra large here.


Yea annoying. But even the smaller ones that look like house roaches can fly in in Florida. Florida has roaches and so much native wildlife. I enjoyed it. The anoles, frogs, all of it. The beautiful blue sky. Even the heat and heavy rain around 4pm. The evenings were so nice and cool. Mosquitoes can be bad but if you have the right bugs around it helps.


----------



## Maggie3fan

Cathie G said:


> Yea annoying. But even the smaller ones that look like house roaches can fly in in Florida. Florida has roaches and so much native wildlife. I enjoyed it. The anoles, frogs, all of it. The beautiful blue sky. Even the heat and heavy rain around 4pm. The evenings were so nice and cool. Mosquitoes can be bad but if you have the right bugs around it helps.


You are simply nuts. To me Florida was so bad, traffic, bugs, dirt, lizards on the walls, that I refused to take a load there anymore. Also, too many old people.


----------



## Cathie G

maggie3fan said:


> You are simply nuts. To me Florida was so bad, traffic, bugs, dirt, lizards on the walls, that I refused to take a load there anymore. Also, too many old people.


I didn't like it at first either...and the old crazy codgers is another story...but there wasn't a lot of traffic where I was. Believe it or not I could drive 25 miles on a highway without seeing more then a couple of cars. I felt like I dropped off planet earth at first. Then I started thinking this probably is a good idea.?


----------



## Cathie G

ZEROPILOT said:


> A few weeks ago, one got into the house at about 1 am.
> It was walking upside down on the ceiling on wobbly legs. Clearly dying from poisoning.
> But aside from their lightning fast speed, the creepy part is that they can fly. Not very well. And one dying on the ceiling will 100% fly and land on YOU.
> No matter how large your house is.


Yep...frogs like to also. It's a nice soft landing...and they aim for you.


----------



## Pastel Tortie

ZEROPILOT said:


> Clearly you've never met a giant Florida cockroach.....


I second that!


----------



## Maggie3fan

Cathie G said:


> I didn't like it at first either...and the old crazy codgers is another story...but there wasn't a lot of traffic where I was. Believe it or not I could drive 25 miles on a highway without seeing more then a couple of cars. I felt like I dropped off planet earth at first. Then I started thinking this probably is a good idea.?


I know how to effectively move a semi truck and 53' trailer thru heavy traffic. Then I drove to South Florida. I was on a get-on ramp with 2 lanes, I was in the right lane, so I had cars on my left, AND cars on my right in the break-down lane. And it wasn't just a guy, it was a whole non lane full of cars cuz I was still shifting a loaded truck. I am lucky nobody ended up mixed in with my drivers...and worse


----------



## Cathie G

maggie3fan said:


> I know how to effectively move a semi truck and 53' trailer thru heavy traffic. Then I drove to South Florida. I was on a get-on ramp with 2 lanes, I was in the right lane, so I had cars on my left, AND cars on my right in the break-down lane. And it wasn't just a guy, it was a whole non lane full of cars cuz I was still shifting a loaded truck. I am lucky nobody ended up mixed in with my drivers...and worse


Yes. I was driving 30 miles inland or more. Way different...I always take the out back country roads if I can. Everyone thinks it's faster to take the interstate highways but I enjoy the country ones. The big interstate isn't fast it's just crazy driving. I always use highways and also you can use them to take a city street into your destination if you can read a map. Imagine a straight country highway with no traffic in the middle of nowhere...hehehe


----------



## ZEROPILOT

maggie3fan said:


> I know how to effectively move a semi truck and 53' trailer thru heavy traffic. Then I drove to South Florida. I was on a get-on ramp with 2 lanes, I was in the right lane, so I had cars on my left, AND cars on my right in the break-down lane. And it wasn't just a guy, it was a whole non lane full of cars cuz I was still shifting a loaded truck. I am lucky nobody ended up mixed in with my drivers...and worse


I had to carry a CLASS A CDL license while I was employed by the Broward county school district.
Luckily, my only tractor/trailer driving was during the actual test.
Then about four times in our 10 wheeled, school bus towing Wrecker truck.
I hated every moment of it.
Now I just have a Class B CDL.
And I don't even need that anymore.
Driving here is rediculous.


----------



## Maggie3fan

ZEROPILOT said:


> I had to carry a CLASS A CDL license while I was employed by the Broward county school district.
> Luckily, my only tractor/trailer driving was during the actual test.
> Then about four times in our 10 wheeled, school bus towing Wrecker truck.
> I hated every moment of it.
> Now I just have a Class B CDL.
> And I don't even need that anymore.
> Driving here is rediculous.


I have driven in every state in the Continental United States, so in my unhumble opinion, Florida has by far the worst drivers, Boston next, and Illinois. New Jersey is on the list for road rage, you got to be scared of those Jersey boys.


----------



## Maggie3fan

Cathie G said:


> Yes. I was driving 30 miles inland or more. Way different...I always take the out back country roads if I can. Everyone thinks it's faster to take the interstate highways but I enjoy the country ones. The big interstate isn't fast it's just crazy driving. I always use highways and also you can use them to take a city street into your destination if you can read a map. Imagine a straight country highway with no traffic in the middle of nowhere...hehehe


Those kinda roads are made for my IROC, not for a long vehicle that weighs 80 thousand pounds. Big trucks generally weigh too much for most roads. For a big truck it's better to stay on the hiway.


----------



## Cathie G

maggie3fan said:


> Those kinda roads are made for my IROC, not for a long vehicle that weighs 80 thousand pounds. Big trucks generally weigh too much for most roads. For a big truck it's better to stay on the hiway.


Well that's the thing about driving in south Florida. It's different. I always thought that the big trucks stopped using the real highways because of mileage.


----------



## Maggie3fan

maggie3fan said:


> I have driven in every state in the Continental United States, so in my unhumble opinion, Florida has by far the worst drivers, Boston next, and Illinois. New Jersey is on the list for road rage, you got to be scared of those Jersey boys.


I'm not sure that I have loved anything the way I loved truckin. For me it was a way of life not a career. I had my beloved cat with me, and I would stay out for 7 weeks at a time as that would give me 7 days off. I got to take my time off any place in the US. So my driver-manager would get me a load to wherever I wanted to go. I really like the Mall of the Americas in Minneapolis. In my trk I had a refrigerator, microwave, TV, VCR, plants, my cat, food, just like home. It was very tragic to me when I had to give up my CDL. Not many friends or family understood what I went thru. Truckin was my identity, and I lost that.


----------



## KronksMom

It doesn't really matter what your life is like. To have something beyond your control take the life you've built for yourself is tragic. No one gets to pass judgement on the life that is being taken. That's probably why all of us like animals so much. They pass no judgement. And they help us build new lives.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

KronksMom said:


> It doesn't really matter what your life is like. To have something beyond your control take the life you've built for yourself is tragic. No one gets to pass judgement on the life that is being taken. That's probably why all of us like animals so much. They pass no judgement. And they help us build new lives.


Nice


----------



## smarch

maggie3fan said:


> I have driven in every state in the Continental United States, so in my unhumble opinion, Florida has by far the worst drivers, Boston next, and Illinois. New Jersey is on the list for road rage, you got to be scared of those Jersey boys.


ah the predictable honorable Boston mention.The past several months in and around boston driving has been great, now people are coming back to work and things are worse than ever and the traffic isn’t even back yet so people are high speed driving like maniacs and can’t even hold in their own lane. I’m a central MA girl and we’re not all as awful as Boston drivers, in fact in traffic I’m the one letting trucks in and angering cars behind me, not my problemo, much less stressful to be nice and get the thanks flashers?‍ not to mention the I-93 corridor of I-90 in Boston is utter nonsense with exists everywhere in every direction and the old 93 overpass probably made more sense than the big dig tunnels but I was young when that happened and never knew the before times. MA people like to make fun of CT drivers but honestly I think RI is worse, the key is to always blame someone else haha!


----------



## Maggie3fan

smarch said:


> ah the predictable honorable Boston mention.The past several months in and around boston driving has been great, now people are coming back to work and things are worse than ever and the traffic isn’t even back yet so people are high speed driving like maniacs and can’t even hold in their own lane. I’m a central MA girl and we’re not all as awful as Boston drivers, in fact in traffic I’m the one letting trucks in and angering cars behind me, not my problemo, much less stressful to be nice and get the thanks flashers?‍ not to mention the I-93 corridor of I-90 in Boston is utter nonsense with exists everywhere in every direction and the old 93 overpass probably made more sense than the big dig tunnels but I was young when that happened and never knew the before times. MA people like to make fun of CT drivers but honestly I think RI is worse, the key is to always blame someone else haha!


I had to insult Bostonians to get a response from you??? It's just nice to hear from you. Glad you are still here and imho you need to post more...lol


----------



## smarch

maggie3fan said:


> I had to insult Bostonians to get a response from you??? It's just nice to hear from you. Glad you are still here and imho you need to post more...lol


It’s funny I wrote that earlier because every bit of driving after I posted this earlier was agony, everyone wants to drive 60 in all the lanes when the speed limit is 65 and no one will stinking leave the left lane. I’m a calm and nice driver I really am but I’m feeling the road rage today. 

Ive been real busy. Plant work is slow but the company is doing disinfecting so I’m at a warehouse of a popular online store disinfecting every day, wearing my respirator and sweating my booty off in long pants a raincoat in the hot humid MA summer.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

A lot has changed.
Maybe not for the best.
Most places of business are open. Traffic is normal. People are out and about and most supplies are back on the shelves.
But the virus is still going strong.
I still don't personally know anyone that has become infected.
Unfortunately, the fear is wearing off.


----------



## The Tortoise Tree

3 months later and it's still crazy!


----------



## Maggie3fan

Oregon is on it's second wave of openings, and we had 190 new cases yesterday....


----------



## KronksMom

ZEROPILOT said:


> A lot has changed.
> Maybe not for the best.
> Most places of business are open. Traffic is normal. People are out and about and most supplies are back on the shelves.
> But the virus is still going strong.
> I still don't personally know anyone that has become infected.
> Unfortunately, the fear is wearing off.


I know several people who have had it. One person said it was horrible. When I asked her what it was like, if she had body aches, like with the flu, she said much worse. She said it felt like her entire body was being stabbed by knives. But she's recovered know, along with the rest of her family. So have the rest of the people I know who have had it so far, but none of them said it was that bad. Being essential has it's downsides.


----------



## Pastel Tortie

Effective yesterday, Leon County (Tallahassee), passed an emergency ordinance requiring individuals in (indoor) business establishments in the county to wear face coverings. There are exceptions to that requirement (persons under the age of six years, persons with medical reasons not to wear a mask, persons exercising as long as they maintain the six foot social distance, et al). It had been voluntary up to this point, except as required by the individual business establishments themselves or as required of certain professions licensed by the state.


----------



## Pastel Tortie

I got my hair cut just over a week ago, for the first time in months. It was an odd experience, having to wear a mask to get my hair cut. It was also the first place I had been where they had to scan my forehead with a thermometer when I walked in.


----------



## Cathie G

Pastel Tortie said:


> I got my hair cut just over a week ago, for the first time in months. It was an odd experience, having to wear a mask to get my hair cut. It was also the first place I had been where they had to scan my forehead with a thermometer when I walked in.


They're being silly with all that. Not having a fever doesn't mean you aren't carrying and spreading the virus. I guess the best thing to do is keep your fingers away from your eyes, mouth, and for heaven's sake don't pick your nose in public. If you do please warsh your hands!?


----------



## Turtulas-Len

The way I see it your going to get it sooner or later if you want to live a normal life because it ain't going away. I understand it will kill people but so does the flu and many other things.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

I found 70% isopropyl alcohol at Publix today.
Most items can be found now. But I'm wondering if the hoarding will resume as the numbers raise up.


----------



## queen koopa

Turtulas-Len said:


> The way I see it your going to get it sooner or later if you want to live a normal life because it ain't going away. I understand it will kill people but so does the flu and many other things.


Exactly


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Its official 
Florida is now the worlds epicenter for COVID-19 cases.
Mostly, I suppose because of our incompetent and irresponsible governor and his almost total lack of leadership decisions or rules.
There is no cohesion. No cooperation from county to county. 
The jackass has a "hands off approach".
Congratulations governor DeSantis.
Let Florida be a shining beacon of exactly what NOT TO DO.


----------



## Cathie G

ZEROPILOT said:


> Its official
> Florida is now the worlds epicenter for COVID-19 cases.
> Mostly, I suppose because of our incompetent and irresponsible governor and his almost total lack of leadership decisions or rules.
> There is no cohesion. No cooperation from county to county.
> The jackass has a "hands off approach".
> Congratulations governor DeSantis.
> Let Florida be a shining beacon of exactly what NOT TO DO.


Ohio is slowly getting there too. I watch the news everyday and never heard that hocking county was so bad that the national guards were there. That was last months news. The only reason I know that is because my daughter in law is a nurse. We have family there. Not all news is getting out I guess...


----------



## The Tortoise Tree

ZEROPILOT said:


> Its official
> Florida is now the worlds epicenter for COVID-19 cases.
> Mostly, I suppose because of our incompetent and irresponsible governor and his almost total lack of leadership decisions or rules.
> There is no cohesion. No cooperation from county to county.
> The jackass has a "hands off approach".
> Congratulations governor DeSantis.
> Let Florida be a shining beacon of exactly what NOT TO DO.


I am on this forum to find out what is best for my tortoise, not to get everyone's taste on politics


----------



## KronksMom

Then stay on tortoise related topics. This whole thread exists under "Off Topic Chit Chat". That's what this one particular thread is for. Venting about what's going on in the world right now as it relates to Covid-19. You don't need to participate. We didn't start talking about our stuff on your thread, you came onto ours.


----------



## queen koopa

The Tortoise Tree said:


> I am on this forum to find out what is best for my tortoise, not to get everyone's taste on politics


First time using the Internet?


----------



## Pastel Tortie

The Tortoise Tree said:


> I am on this forum to find out what is best for my tortoise, not to get everyone's taste on politics


On the TFO, we do typically steer clear of hot button issues like religion and politics. (That's why some of us participate on the TFO and won't go anywhere near FB... too much drama.) We do accommodate some venting, though.
And if you know @ZEROPILOT (or once you get to know him better), you know he does not typically venture into posting anything overtly political. For me, reading his post underscored the venting and intense frustration right now over a situation that we're pretty much powerless to resolve. 
It's a scary thought for some of us that your generation may come to accept wearing masks to attend high school and college as "normal."


----------



## Pastel Tortie

ZEROPILOT said:


> Its official
> Florida is now the worlds epicenter for COVID-19 cases.
> Mostly, I suppose because of our incompetent and irresponsible governor and his almost total lack of leadership decisions or rules.
> There is no cohesion. No cooperation from county to county.
> The jackass has a "hands off approach".
> Congratulations governor DeSantis.
> Let Florida be a shining beacon of exactly what NOT TO DO.


Much worse in your part of the state, I believe. 

Granted, if there's a people-related or population-related snafu in Florida, there are three counties in South Florida where you would most expect said issue to occur. And @ZEROPILOT lives in one of them.


----------



## mark1

ZEROPILOT said:


> Its official
> Florida is now the worlds epicenter for COVID-19 cases.
> Mostly, I suppose because of our incompetent and irresponsible governor and his almost total lack of leadership decisions or rules.
> There is no cohesion. No cooperation from county to county.
> The jackass has a "hands off approach".
> Congratulations governor DeSantis.
> Let Florida be a shining beacon of exactly what NOT TO DO.



I tend to think it's more of an indication it needs to run it's course …… keep in mind florida has a much older population than new York or new jersey , one of the oldest populations in the united states ………..

some stats ,
pop. florida ……..21.5 m …….. cases 179,000 .... deaths 3,600 …… death rate 2%
pop. new york….19.5 m ........cases 401,000 …..deaths 31,800 ……death rate 7.9%
pop. new jersey. ..8.8 m ……cases 175,000 ….deaths 15,200 …….death rate 8.6%
pop. texas …….. .29 m ……cases 189,000 ……deaths 2,600 ……..death rate1.3%
pop. ohio …….. .11.5 m …... cases 55,000 ……deaths 2,903 ………death rate 5%
pop. california ..39.5 m ……cases 254,000 ...…deaths 6,300 ...…… death rate 2.5%

could be worse Ed , you could have Cuomo or murphy for governor ……… florida .California and texas so far have done much better than the national average ………


----------



## Toddrickfl1

The Tortoise Tree said:


> I am on this forum to find out what is best for my tortoise, not to get everyone's taste on politics


Then stay in the "Tortoise" section.


----------



## Pastel Tortie

mark1 said:


> I tend to think it's more of an indication it needs to run it's course …… keep in mind florida has a much older population than new York or new jersey , one of the oldest populations in the united states ………..
> 
> some stats ,
> pop. florida ……..21.5 m …….. cases 179,000 .... deaths 3,600 …… death rate 2%
> pop. new york….19.5 m ........cases 401,000 …..deaths 31,800 ……death rate 7.9%
> pop. new jersey. ..8.8 m ……cases 175,000 ….deaths 15,200 …….death rate 8.6%
> pop. texas …….. .29 m ……cases 189,000 ……deaths 2,600 ……..death rate1.3%
> pop. ohio …….. .11.5 m …... cases 55,000 ……deaths 2,903 ………death rate 5%
> pop. california ..39.5 m ……cases 254,000 ...…deaths 6,300 ...…… death rate 2.5%
> 
> could be worse Ed , you could have Cuomo or murphy for governor ……… florida .California and texas so far have done much better than the national average ………


In Florida the data on _age of death _for COVID related _deaths_ is not readily available, certainly not to the general public.

Age data is somewhat more available for COVID _cases_, although criteria for what constitutes a case is not readily available and/or clear.

The _ages_ on COVID _cases, _especially on new cases, have dropped significantly.
As the numbers of cases increase, the ages of individuals involved have decreased.

Florida did a good job early on, for the most part, in locking down (not allowing visits to) nursing homes to help protect some of our most vulnerable population. 

However, we now have a shift with cases occurring in people in their 20s and 30s.

We're dealing with quarantine fatigue and cabin fever in a state that never gets snowed in and doesn't usually have to shelter for more than a few days at a time. This fair weather sheltering stuff doesn't make intuitive sense to most people.


----------



## The Tortoise Tree

Sorry


----------



## The Tortoise Tree

At least nobody can see my name


----------



## Pastel Tortie

The Tortoise Tree said:


> Sorry


It's okay. On some of these Off Topic Chit Chat threads, it can take a while to get a feel for the "personality" of the individual thread... Especially since those personalities can change over time.  

I want to make sure that we are not making our newer or younger members feel unwelcome or excluded from these off topic threads because there is a lot to learn, even if it isn't all tortoise related.  We sometimes get a better sense of the individual personalities of other members in these off topic threads, which helps us to understand the humor and how various comments may be intended (less likely to be read as offensive) in other threads.

Don't be afraid to seek clarification or ask for more information (background or context). Where someone is coming from is often just as important to the information being conveyed in a post.


----------



## mark1

Pastel Tortie said:


> In Florida the data on _age of death _for COVID related _deaths_ is not readily available, certainly not to the general public.
> 
> Age data is somewhat more available for COVID _cases_, although criteria for what constitutes a case is not readily available and/or clear.
> 
> The _ages_ on COVID _cases, _especially on new cases, have dropped significantly.
> As the numbers of cases increase, the ages of individuals involved have decreased.
> 
> Florida did a good job early on, for the most part, in locking down (not allowing visits to) nursing homes to help protect some of our most vulnerable population.
> 
> However, we now have a shift with cases occurring in people in their 20s and 30s.
> 
> We're dealing with quarantine fatigue and cabin fever in a state that never gets snowed in and doesn't usually have to shelter for more than a few days at a time. This fair weather sheltering stuff doesn't make intuitive sense to most people.



I just assume older people die more often from covid than younger people …….. florida has a much older population than new York or new jersey ……. the chances of dying from covid , on average in florida is a fraction of what it is in new jersey or new York …….. judging on what it said about age , for florida to match new York they'd need 40-50k deaths ……… seems to me I remember in the beginning that dr. birx saying before this was over something like 70% of the population would need exposed ……… nobody ran out of icu beds or ventilators , not even new York with how badly that state was managed ….. there is a respiratory coronavirus in dogs , it's easier to get vaccines for animals than people , they don't have a vaccine for respiratory corona in dogs , they don't have a vaccine for the corona that causes colds in people , what will we do if they don't come up with a vaccine ? it's a real possibility ……… i believe sweden had 0 new cases yesterday , everyone there been exposed ? my opinion is the only reason new york is not still leading the world in new cases is a majority of their population has already been exposed to it ........... possibly if florida had done a lousy job containing it , they would have less people available to be infected and their numbers would be lower at this point.........


----------



## The Tortoise Tree

Pastel Tortie said:


> It's okay. On some of these Off Topic Chit Chat threads, it can take a while to get a feel for the "personality" of the individual thread... Especially since those personalities can change over time.
> 
> I want to make sure that we are not making our newer or younger members feel unwelcome or excluded from these off topic threads because there is a lot to learn, even if it isn't all tortoise related.  We sometimes get a better sense of the individual personalities of other members in these off topic threads, which helps us to understand the humor and how various comments may be intended (less likely to be read as offensive) in other threads.
> 
> Don't be afraid to seek clarification or ask for more information (background or context). Where someone is coming from is often just as important to the information being conveyed in a post.


Thanks


----------



## ZEROPILOT

The Tortoise Tree said:


> I am on this forum to find out what is best for my tortoise, not to get everyone's taste on politics



I'm not trying to condemn or support either political party.
Just some sort of leadership would be nice.
This is kind of like throwing a bunch of babies into a pool and hoping that they'll either float or be able to swim with no lifeguards


----------



## ZEROPILOT

mark1 said:


> I tend to think it's more of an indication it needs to run it's course …… keep in mind florida has a much older population than new York or new jersey , one of the oldest populations in the united states ………..
> 
> some stats ,
> pop. florida ……..21.5 m …….. cases 179,000 .... deaths 3,600 …… death rate 2%
> pop. new york….19.5 m ........cases 401,000 …..deaths 31,800 ……death rate 7.9%
> pop. new jersey. ..8.8 m ……cases 175,000 ….deaths 15,200 …….death rate 8.6%
> pop. texas …….. .29 m ……cases 189,000 ……deaths 2,600 ……..death rate1.3%
> pop. ohio …….. .11.5 m …... cases 55,000 ……deaths 2,903 ………death rate 5%
> pop. california ..39.5 m ……cases 254,000 ...…deaths 6,300 ...…… death rate 2.5%
> 
> could be worse Ed , you could have Cuomo or murphy for governor ……… florida .California and texas so far have done much better than the national average ………


DeSantis is a Republican. 
Our Democratic candidate for governor ended up being a crack head.
I didn't put a political spin on the facts.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Pastel Tortie said:


> In Florida the data on _age of death _for COVID related _deaths_ is not readily available, certainly not to the general public.
> 
> Age data is somewhat more available for COVID _cases_, although criteria for what constitutes a case is not readily available and/or clear.
> 
> The _ages_ on COVID _cases, _especially on new cases, have dropped significantly.
> As the numbers of cases increase, the ages of individuals involved have decreased.
> 
> Florida did a good job early on, for the most part, in locking down (not allowing visits to) nursing homes to help protect some of our most vulnerable population.
> 
> However, we now have a shift with cases occurring in people in their 20s and 30s.
> 
> We're dealing with quarantine fatigue and cabin fever in a state that never gets snowed in and doesn't usually have to shelter for more than a few days at a time. This fair weather sheltering stuff doesn't make intuitive sense to most people.


The blood mobile is providing free antibody testing and I believe COVID-19 tests for a fee.
Donations are WAY UP.
The busses are always full now.
Most times in the past that I've donated my O+, I had the whole bus to myself.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

The Tortoise Tree said:


> At least nobody can see my name


Everyone's opinion matters here.
And even if you're 14 years old, it's fine to toss in your opinion.
This development and others are shaping YOUR world as a young American.
I'm old.


----------



## mark1

ZEROPILOT said:


> DeSantis is a Republican.
> Our Democratic candidate for governor ended up being a crack head.
> I didn't put a political spin on the facts.



gotcha Ed , politicians suck …….. most of them are a bunch of inept skillless folks with no integrity , some are obviously and blatantly stupid ……… term limits , most of them would be unemployed and unemployable ……..


----------



## Pastel Tortie

ZEROPILOT said:


> The blood mobile is providing free antibody testing and I believe COVID-19 tests for a fee.
> Donations are WAY UP.
> The busses are always full now.
> Most times in the past that I've donated my O+, I had the whole bus to myself.


I'm O+ as well, and from what (a little) I've seen on blood types and susceptibility to COVID symptoms, we may be less likely to show symptoms, or less likely to have a worse time of it, than someone with an A+/A- type. 

I don't think anything I've read on COVID symptoms and blood types had been fully reviewed or peer reviewed at the time, so the above paragraph is subject to revision in light of sound science. Or whatever other disclaimers apply.


----------



## queen koopa

Pastel Tortie said:


> I'm O+ as well, and from what (a little) I've seen on blood types and susceptibility to COVID symptoms, we may be less likely to show symptoms, or less likely to have a worse time of it, than someone with an A+/A- type.
> 
> I don't think anything I've read on COVID symptoms and blood types had been fully reviewed or peer reviewed at the time, so the above paragraph is subject to revision in light of sound science. Or whatever other disclaimers apply.


Anyone looked into the eat right for your blood type book? I feel the science and info is good, that being said if a person has been eating for their blood type they are more likely to have a successfully functioning immune system. Its been a while since I read the book, but if I remember correctly, the O’s have a more
wide variety of foods they can eat then the A’s. So the poor A’s may be eating things that render certain body systems to not perform well.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

queen koopa said:


> Anyone looked into the eat right for your blood type book? I feel the science and info is good, that being said if a person has been eating for their blood type they are more likely to have a successfully functioning immune system. Its been a while since I read the book, but if I remember correctly, the O’s have a more
> wide variety of foods they can eat then the A’s. So the poor A’s may be eating things that render certain body systems to not perform well.


So...Type O blood makes me a Redfoot tortoise?


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Pastel Tortie said:


> It's okay. On some of these Off Topic Chit Chat threads, it can take a while to get a feel for the "personality" of the individual thread... Especially since those personalities can change over time.
> 
> I want to make sure that we are not making our newer or younger members feel unwelcome or excluded from these off topic threads because there is a lot to learn, even if it isn't all tortoise related.  We sometimes get a better sense of the individual personalities of other members in these off topic threads, which helps us to understand the humor and how various comments may be intended (less likely to be read as offensive) in other threads.
> 
> Don't be afraid to seek clarification or ask for more information (background or context). Where someone is coming from is often just as important to the information being conveyed in a post.


Frankly, that's what makes the TFO so special.
We talk about a lot more than tortoises here.
And its actually a pretty good place to vent an issue. Or to make a friend.
We've had many very interesting off topic chats.
This one is boring in comparison


----------



## Maggie3fan

The Tortoise Tree said:


> I am on this forum to find out what is best for my tortoise, not to get everyone's taste on politics





The Tortoise Tree said:


> I am on this forum to find out what is best for my tortoise, not to get everyone's taste on politics


If you don't like the subject matter simply go to another thread. It's really simple. The Virus thread, the off topic chit chat are adult (sorta) humor.The moderator thread, my Knobby thread all adultish. You are a new person and yet you are complaining about the way OUR forum is set up? Seriously?


----------



## Maggie3fan

The Tortoise Tree said:


> At least nobody can see my name


You are only 14? I can get your name, so grow up and


----------



## The Tortoise Tree

maggie3fan said:


> You are only 14? I can get your name, so grow up and


Okay?


----------



## queen koopa

ZEROPILOT said:


> So...Type O blood makes me a Redfoot tortoise?


Possibly..... ?


----------



## The Tortoise Tree

The Tortoise Tree said:


> Okay?


And I am not complaining I am sorry bout what I said to ZEROPILOT


----------



## Cathie G

ZEROPILOT said:


> Frankly, that's what makes the TFO so special.
> We talk about a lot more than tortoises here.
> And its actually a pretty good place to vent an issue. Or to make a friend.
> We've had many very interesting off topic chats.
> This one is boring in comparison


And all those topics eventually relate though. My son told me today that if a hospital relates a death to covid 19 they get more money. Although Ohio is saying the case number has continued to go up at an alarming rate, the hospitals in our capital are pretty much empty. My daughter in law is an RN and volunteer to help. She's only getting a couple covid patients at a time now.


----------



## Cathie G

queen koopa said:


> Anyone looked into the eat right for your blood type book? I feel the science and info is good, that being said if a person has been eating for their blood type they are more likely to have a successfully functioning immune system. Its been a while since I read the book, but if I remember correctly, the O’s have a more
> wide variety of foods they can eat then the A’s. So the poor A’s may be eating things that render certain body systems to not perform well.


My doctor said to me I keep forgetting you have a weird diet. I told him...it's not so weird. I just have to eat real food. I'm allergic to corn. He just looked at me and shut up...?


----------



## Cathie G

I came to this site to learn about tortoises too. It took me a while to learn how to somewhat navigate it. I've found I really enjoy talking with the members also on other subjects. At first I didn't know what in the world I'd gotten into this time...hang in there?


----------



## Toddrickfl1

Pastel Tortie said:


> I'm O+ as well, and from what (a little) I've seen on blood types and susceptibility to COVID symptoms, we may be less likely to show symptoms, or less likely to have a worse time of it, than someone with an A+/A- type.
> 
> I don't think anything I've read on COVID symptoms and blood types had been fully reviewed or peer reviewed at the time, so the above paragraph is subject to revision in light of sound science. Or whatever other disclaimers apply.


My brother is a nursing director at the hospital in my county and that's what he said. They are finding certain blood types have no symptoms, some get mildly sick, and others get really sick.


----------



## Cathie G

ZEROPILOT said:


> So...Type O blood makes me a Redfoot tortoise?


No but probably some kind of tortoise type person.?


----------



## Lokkje

I think it’s a good thing for people to vent. I think it’s good that the tortoise form can have separate threads for which we can vent or talk about other things. I’ve mentioned before I’m not on any other social media. I try to avoid politics rigorously even when I feel very passionate about something. If I have a cause I will contribute money, time, support candidates, and vote. I certainly speak my mind. That’s not what I want to do right now about Covid though. I want to vent. I am a doctor in Phoenix Arizona. I am very frustrated sometimes because I spend 10 to 12 hours a day wearing either a surgical mask or a KN95 which is not protecting me and our patients are all told that they must wear masks and practice social distancing when they come to the office. When I enter the exam room at least 50% of the time my patients have their masks removed and I am over 60. I am dismayed because I wear a mask to protect them. I clean the room along with my medical assistant after they come in and before we open and when we close. We also have a cleaning crew. We try our best to keep things sanitized, we offer telemedicine, and I always have that dang mask. I can feel it on my face for hours after I go home. I wish I could have an N95 but they don’t make it available to an endocrinologist. Only a N95 fitted would protect me from my patients nearly completely. I buy my own masks and support to other families so I tend to re-wear my mask over and over again. Please wear masks. It is not impinging on your constitutional freedoms. It is not a political issue it is not a political issue. It is no more unreasonable than wearing clothing. No more so than sending your children to school in some format or wearing a seatbelt or following the speed limit or not yelling “fire” in a movie theater. There are societal norms and there’s public safety issues. Love your fellow man enough to be kind enough to put a piece of cloth over your nose and mouth. It is not that bad to do when you are out and about. As far as the danger of this virus we have no vaccine. I doubt we will have a vaccine by the end of the year and may never have a vaccine. Look at HIV. Look at other viral entities. Any death is too many deaths. The death rate is higher for COVID-19 than for the flu as far as actual numbers in the US even if the percentage is lower because the infection rate is quite high for COVID. I would say I’m done ranting now but it’s unlikely. When I do walk in and my patients aren’t wearing their masks they invariably say that they don’t think that I should mind because I’m sure they don’t have it and it’s so hard to talk to me with a mask. And it’s hot and uncomfortable. And it impinges on their rights. I leave mine on and say nothing and honestly wonder why my life isn’t valuable enough for them to protect me. Sorry about the long post. This has been bugging me for a long time.


----------



## Lokkje

Pastel Tortie said:


> It's okay. On some of these Off Topic Chit Chat threads, it can take a while to get a feel for the "personality" of the individual thread... Especially since those personalities can change over time.
> 
> I want to make sure that we are not making our newer or younger members feel unwelcome or excluded from these off topic threads because there is a lot to learn, even if it isn't all tortoise related.  We sometimes get a better sense of the individual personalities of other members in these off topic threads, which helps us to understand the humor and how various comments may be intended (less likely to be read as offensive) in other threads.
> 
> Don't be afraid to seek clarification or ask for more information (background or context). Where someone is coming from is often just as important to the information being conveyed in a post.


My personality is old and curmudgeonly if you didn’t pick up on it. You’re always welcome to express your point of view and when I was a newer member I was terrified to talk about anything because I was afraid I would have my head bitten off by a another member and instead it’s been really supportive and even when I have had a little pushback it’s usually done with humor and with kindness.


----------



## Lokkje

mark1 said:


> gotcha Ed , politicians suck …….. most of them are a bunch of inept skillless folks with no integrity , some are obviously and blatantly stupid ……… term limits , most of them would be unemployed and unemployable ……..


Heh heh...glad I’m not a politician...


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## ZEROPILOT

Lokkje said:


> Heh heh...glad I’m not a politician...


I'm sure SOME politicians are well meaning, good people.
I mean I've never met one....But they might exist.


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## ZEROPILOT

The Tortoise Tree said:


> And I am not complaining I am sorry bout what I said to ZEROPILOT


Maggie is one of my many friends here.
She just came to my rescue.
Stick around. She'll probably become a friend of yours, too.


----------



## Cathie G

Lokkje said:


> I think it’s a good thing for people to vent. I think it’s good that the tortoise form can have separate threads for which we can vent or talk about other things. I’ve mentioned before I’m not on any other social media. I try to avoid politics rigorously even when I feel very passionate about something. If I have a cause I will contribute money, time, support candidates, and vote. I certainly speak my mind. That’s not what I want to do right now about Covid though. I want to vent. I am a doctor in Phoenix Arizona. I am very frustrated sometimes because I spend 10 to 12 hours a day wearing either a surgical mask or a KN95 which is not protecting me and our patients are all told that they must wear masks and practice social distancing when they come to the office. When I enter the exam room at least 50% of the time my patients have their masks removed and I am over 60. I am dismayed because I wear a mask to protect them. I clean the room along with my medical assistant after they come in and before we open and when we close. We also have a cleaning crew. We try our best to keep things sanitized, we offer telemedicine, and I always have that dang mask. I can feel it on my face for hours after I go home. I wish I could have an N95 but they don’t make it available to an endocrinologist. Only a N95 fitted would protect me from my patients nearly completely. I buy my own masks and support to other families so I tend to re-wear my mask over and over again. Please wear masks. It is not impinging on your constitutional freedoms. It is not a political issue it is not a political issue. It is no more unreasonable than wearing clothing. No more so than sending your children to school in some format or wearing a seatbelt or following the speed limit or not yelling “fire” in a movie theater. There are societal norms and there’s public safety issues. Love your fellow man enough to be kind enough to put a piece of cloth over your nose and mouth. It is not that bad to do when you are out and about. As far as the danger of this virus we have no vaccine. I doubt we will have a vaccine by the end of the year and may never have a vaccine. Look at HIV. Look at other viral entities. Any death is too many deaths. The death rate is higher for COVID-19 than for the flu as far as actual numbers in the US even if the percentage is lower because the infection rate is quite high for COVID. I would say I’m done ranting now but it’s unlikely. When I do walk in and my patients aren’t wearing their masks they invariably say that they don’t think that I should mind because I’m sure they don’t have it and it’s so hard to talk to me with a mask. And it’s hot and uncomfortable. And it impinges on their rights. I leave mine on and say nothing and honestly wonder why my life isn’t valuable enough for them to protect me. Sorry about the long post. This has been bugging me for a long time.


I hear you. I'm 67 with health problems. I wear a cloth mask around people other then close family members because I don't know what I've been exposed to. But really I like them. They are so much better then the n95 masks. Those make me sick. My homemade ones are doing double duty because they are actually helping with my allergy problem too. I'll be thinking hoping and praying with you.


----------



## queen koopa

ZEROPILOT said:


> I'm sure SOME politicians are well meaning, good people.
> I mean I've never met one....But they might exist.


This ain’t a movie ?
You will never meet one.


----------



## Pastel Tortie

Lokkje said:


> I think it’s a good thing for people to vent. I think it’s good that the tortoise form can have separate threads for which we can vent or talk about other things. I’ve mentioned before I’m not on any other social media. I try to avoid politics rigorously even when I feel very passionate about something. If I have a cause I will contribute money, time, support candidates, and vote. I certainly speak my mind. That’s not what I want to do right now about Covid though. I want to vent. I am a doctor in Phoenix Arizona. I am very frustrated sometimes because I spend 10 to 12 hours a day wearing either a surgical mask or a KN95 which is not protecting me and our patients are all told that they must wear masks and practice social distancing when they come to the office. When I enter the exam room at least 50% of the time my patients have their masks removed and I am over 60. I am dismayed because I wear a mask to protect them. I clean the room along with my medical assistant after they come in and before we open and when we close. We also have a cleaning crew. We try our best to keep things sanitized, we offer telemedicine, and I always have that dang mask. I can feel it on my face for hours after I go home. I wish I could have an N95 but they don’t make it available to an endocrinologist. Only a N95 fitted would protect me from my patients nearly completely. I buy my own masks and support to other families so I tend to re-wear my mask over and over again. Please wear masks. It is not impinging on your constitutional freedoms. It is not a political issue it is not a political issue. It is no more unreasonable than wearing clothing. No more so than sending your children to school in some format or wearing a seatbelt or following the speed limit or not yelling “fire” in a movie theater. There are societal norms and there’s public safety issues. Love your fellow man enough to be kind enough to put a piece of cloth over your nose and mouth. It is not that bad to do when you are out and about. As far as the danger of this virus we have no vaccine. I doubt we will have a vaccine by the end of the year and may never have a vaccine. Look at HIV. Look at other viral entities. Any death is too many deaths. The death rate is higher for COVID-19 than for the flu as far as actual numbers in the US even if the percentage is lower because the infection rate is quite high for COVID. I would say I’m done ranting now but it’s unlikely. When I do walk in and my patients aren’t wearing their masks they invariably say that they don’t think that I should mind because I’m sure they don’t have it and it’s so hard to talk to me with a mask. And it’s hot and uncomfortable. And it impinges on their rights. I leave mine on and say nothing and honestly wonder why my life isn’t valuable enough for them to protect me. Sorry about the long post. This has been bugging me for a long time.


I'm so glad you vented. Please vent again, as much as you want. ? 

I could be wrong, but I think if you visit a medical office in Florida, you have to wear a face mask. The entire time. And you aren't likely to be visiting a medical office in Florida if there's any way they can possibly handle your issue remotely.

When I got my hair cut recently, I had to wear a mask. It was something to get used to, but I understood the why. 

I think it's even more important for medical professionals to share and vent about stuff like this (if they want to and feel up to it). It's a perspective we don't often see directly.


----------



## queen koopa

Lokkje said:


> I think it’s a good thing for people to vent. I think it’s good that the tortoise form can have separate threads for which we can vent or talk about other things. I’ve mentioned before I’m not on any other social media. I try to avoid politics rigorously even when I feel very passionate about something. If I have a cause I will contribute money, time, support candidates, and vote. I certainly speak my mind. That’s not what I want to do right now about Covid though. I want to vent. I am a doctor in Phoenix Arizona. I am very frustrated sometimes because I spend 10 to 12 hours a day wearing either a surgical mask or a KN95 which is not protecting me and our patients are all told that they must wear masks and practice social distancing when they come to the office. When I enter the exam room at least 50% of the time my patients have their masks removed and I am over 60. I am dismayed because I wear a mask to protect them. I clean the room along with my medical assistant after they come in and before we open and when we close. We also have a cleaning crew. We try our best to keep things sanitized, we offer telemedicine, and I always have that dang mask. I can feel it on my face for hours after I go home. I wish I could have an N95 but they don’t make it available to an endocrinologist. Only a N95 fitted would protect me from my patients nearly completely. I buy my own masks and support to other families so I tend to re-wear my mask over and over again. Please wear masks. It is not impinging on your constitutional freedoms. It is not a political issue it is not a political issue. It is no more unreasonable than wearing clothing. No more so than sending your children to school in some format or wearing a seatbelt or following the speed limit or not yelling “fire” in a movie theater. There are societal norms and there’s public safety issues. Love your fellow man enough to be kind enough to put a piece of cloth over your nose and mouth. It is not that bad to do when you are out and about. As far as the danger of this virus we have no vaccine. I doubt we will have a vaccine by the end of the year and may never have a vaccine. Look at HIV. Look at other viral entities. Any death is too many deaths. The death rate is higher for COVID-19 than for the flu as far as actual numbers in the US even if the percentage is lower because the infection rate is quite high for COVID. I would say I’m done ranting now but it’s unlikely. When I do walk in and my patients aren’t wearing their masks they invariably say that they don’t think that I should mind because I’m sure they don’t have it and it’s so hard to talk to me with a mask. And it’s hot and uncomfortable. And it impinges on their rights. I leave mine on and say nothing and honestly wonder why my life isn’t valuable enough for them to protect me. Sorry about the long post. This has been bugging me for a long time.


I am confident that mandatory face coverings in public areas are for the purpose of scaring the general public. And it works. With respects to medical offices, hospitals, and more - this is a separate issue. The humans visiting medical facilities actually have or may have any number of medical issues ranging from infection to a susceptible immune system. At said medical facilities they all sit in the same rooms for a good amount of time, sit in the same chairs, touch same handles, use the flower pen at the front desk to sign in (flower pen might be gone now)... This is not “new news” to anyone. Face coverings may help reduce infection among staff and patients. I am 100% for face coverings in all hospitals and medical facilities. The medical industry should have been requiring face coverings LONG ago. I think anyone who has sat in the ER can agree with that.. Also a medical patient is not A customer. They are there to seek your care.

Everyones job in society has provided them with life experience and helps them shape their opinion as they grow. I am (was, my job has been permanently terminated) a server at a high volume restaurant on the Las Vegas Strip. I am very interested to hear how the different aspects of the medical field are being affected world wide and actually getting insite from real people with real stories like yourself.


----------



## Blackdog1714

Lokkje said:


> I think it’s a good thing for people to vent. I think it’s good that the tortoise form can have separate threads for which we can vent or talk about other things. I’ve mentioned before I’m not on any other social media. I try to avoid politics rigorously even when I feel very passionate about something. If I have a cause I will contribute money, time, support candidates, and vote. I certainly speak my mind. That’s not what I want to do right now about Covid though. I want to vent. I am a doctor in Phoenix Arizona. I am very frustrated sometimes because I spend 10 to 12 hours a day wearing either a surgical mask or a KN95 which is not protecting me and our patients are all told that they must wear masks and practice social distancing when they come to the office. When I enter the exam room at least 50% of the time my patients have their masks removed and I am over 60. I am dismayed because I wear a mask to protect them. I clean the room along with my medical assistant after they come in and before we open and when we close. We also have a cleaning crew. We try our best to keep things sanitized, we offer telemedicine, and I always have that dang mask. I can feel it on my face for hours after I go home. I wish I could have an N95 but they don’t make it available to an endocrinologist. Only a N95 fitted would protect me from my patients nearly completely. I buy my own masks and support to other families so I tend to re-wear my mask over and over again. Please wear masks. It is not impinging on your constitutional freedoms. It is not a political issue it is not a political issue. It is no more unreasonable than wearing clothing. No more so than sending your children to school in some format or wearing a seatbelt or following the speed limit or not yelling “fire” in a movie theater. There are societal norms and there’s public safety issues. Love your fellow man enough to be kind enough to put a piece of cloth over your nose and mouth. It is not that bad to do when you are out and about. As far as the danger of this virus we have no vaccine. I doubt we will have a vaccine by the end of the year and may never have a vaccine. Look at HIV. Look at other viral entities. Any death is too many deaths. The death rate is higher for COVID-19 than for the flu as far as actual numbers in the US even if the percentage is lower because the infection rate is quite high for COVID. I would say I’m done ranting now but it’s unlikely. When I do walk in and my patients aren’t wearing their masks they invariably say that they don’t think that I should mind because I’m sure they don’t have it and it’s so hard to talk to me with a mask. And it’s hot and uncomfortable. And it impinges on their rights. I leave mine on and say nothing and honestly wonder why my life isn’t valuable enough for them to protect me. Sorry about the long post. This has been bugging me for a long time.


That is not VENTING! You are just being honest about a topic that ranges from far-fetched to world ending point of views from EXPERTS and blather heads! COVID-19 is very contagious so please wear a mask around others, wash hands frequently, and please stay 60' feet away from me! I know how far a sneeze travels and I would hate to have to pop you in the kisser for sneezing on me now.


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## mark1

Lokkje said:


> Heh heh...glad I’m not a politician...



possibly if folks like you were making political decisions I would feel differently ..... i don't have to agree with their stances to see the logic in them , when they're illogical , half truth/half lie or straight up lie , in an effort to mislead , taking me for a fool i kind of resent that .......


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## Lokkje

queen koopa said:


> I am confident that mandatory face coverings in public areas are for the purpose of scaring the general public. And it works. With respects to medical offices, hospitals, and more - this is a separate issue. The humans visiting medical facilities actually have or may have any number of medical issues ranging from infection to a susceptible immune system. At said medical facilities they all sit in the same rooms for a good amount of time, sit in the same chairs, touch same handles, use the flower pen at the front desk to sign in (flower pen might be gone now)... This is not “new news” to anyone. Face coverings may help reduce infection among staff and patients. I am 100% for face coverings in all hospitals and medical facilities. The medical industry should have been requiring face coverings LONG ago. I think anyone who has sat in the ER can agree with that.. Also a medical patient is not A customer. They are there to seek your care.
> 
> Everyones job in society has provided them with life experience and helps them shape their opinion as they grow. I am (was, my job has been permanently terminated) a server at a high volume restaurant on the Las Vegas Strip. I am very interested to hear how the different aspects of the medical field are being affected world wide and actually getting insite from real people with real stories like yourself.


So I always wondered what’s with those stupid pens with the flowers on the top anyway? Who would want to steal a cheap pen and I feel like an idiot anytime I have to pick one of them up.


----------



## Lokkje

mark1 said:


> possibly if folks like you were making political decisions I would feel differently ..... i don't have to agree with their stances to see the logic in them , when they're illogical , half truth/half lie or straight up lie , in an effort to mislead , taking me for a fool i kind of resent that .......


You were nicer than me. With that list I would be bitterly resentful especially if they take me for a fool. I really would make a very crappy politician.


----------



## Lokkje

queen koopa said:


> I am confident that mandatory face coverings in public areas are for the purpose of scaring the general public. And it works. With respects to medical offices, hospitals, and more - this is a separate issue. The humans visiting medical facilities actually have or may have any number of medical issues ranging from infection to a susceptible immune system. At said medical facilities they all sit in the same rooms for a good amount of time, sit in the same chairs, touch same handles, use the flower pen at the front desk to sign in (flower pen might be gone now)... This is not “new news” to anyone. Face coverings may help reduce infection among staff and patients. I am 100% for face coverings in all hospitals and medical facilities. The medical industry should have been requiring face coverings LONG ago. I think anyone who has sat in the ER can agree with that.. Also a medical patient is not A customer. They are there to seek your care.
> 
> Everyones job in society has provided them with life experience and helps them shape their opinion as they grow. I am (was, my job has been permanently terminated) a server at a high volume restaurant on the Las Vegas Strip. I am very interested to hear how the different aspects of the medical field are being affected world wide and actually getting insite from real people with real stories like yourself.


I feel for you about the job. My nephew worked as a server and bar back and he has not worked since March 17. He is living with me now and they just closed bars again after he actually worked a couple of weeks. He was worried about working because the cases in Arizona are climbing so fast yet he desperately needed the job and he’d rather take a risk than be broke. He didn’t get to choose. He’s lost his apartment and savings and is battling depression. My niece in law is a dental hygienist and their office has elected not to open until there’s less infections and we’re actually getting exponentially more. Almost all my family is in the restaurant industry or other service industry. Another nephew works at music instrument Museum and it’s been closed and will be closed until maybe August or September or they will permanently closed. My sister and I have been supporting everyone and it has wiped out my retirement. It is a very difficult if not impossible balance between public safety and having a life to be safe over. People are losing everything they have to try to prevent an infection and God forbid a death. I don’t have any suggestions for the balance other than to protect yourself as best you can and hang in there. To me the hardest thing of all is the people being hurt the worst are the people who need a steady income and they’re being expected to either give up jobs for months or put themselves out there at risk and take pay cuts, get sick or even die. As a nation we should’ve been better prepared, and that statement isn’t meant to be political but just a statement of fact.


----------



## Pastel Tortie

Lokkje said:


> So I always wondered what’s with those stupid pens with the flowers on the top anyway? Who would want to steal a cheap pen and I feel like an idiot anytime I have to pick one of them up.


Most people don't mean to steal the pen at the front desk, but many are prone to walking off with a writing implement they just borrowed. When they no longer need it, it's no longer in mind, but it's still in hand... Out of habit, pens get tucked away so people can juggle everything else they brought into the office with them. Those flowers get noticed before (when) they go in somebody's pocket, strikes the accidental culprit as odd, and the person realizes (oops!) I need to return this!


----------



## Maggie3fan

Lokkje said:


> I think it’s a good thing for people to vent. I think it’s good that the tortoise form can have separate threads for which we can vent or talk about other things. I’ve mentioned before I’m not on any other social media. I try to avoid politics rigorously even when I feel very passionate about something. If I have a cause I will contribute money, time, support candidates, and vote. I certainly speak my mind. That’s not what I want to do right now about Covid though. I want to vent. I am a doctor in Phoenix Arizona. I am very frustrated sometimes because I spend 10 to 12 hours a day wearing either a surgical mask or a KN95 which is not protecting me and our patients are all told that they must wear masks and practice social distancing when they come to the office. When I enter the exam room at least 50% of the time my patients have their masks removed and I am over 60. I am dismayed because I wear a mask to protect them. I clean the room along with my medical assistant after they come in and before we open and when we close. We also have a cleaning crew. We try our best to keep things sanitized, we offer telemedicine, and I always have that dang mask. I can feel it on my face for hours after I go home. I wish I could have an N95 but they don’t make it available to an endocrinologist. Only a N95 fitted would protect me from my patients nearly completely. I buy my own masks and support to other families so I tend to re-wear my mask over and over again. Please wear masks. It is not impinging on your constitutional freedoms. It is not a political issue it is not a political issue. It is no more unreasonable than wearing clothing. No more so than sending your children to school in some format or wearing a seatbelt or following the speed limit or not yelling “fire” in a movie theater. There are societal norms and there’s public safety issues. Love your fellow man enough to be kind enough to put a piece of cloth over your nose and mouth. It is not that bad to do when you are out and about. As far as the danger of this virus we have no vaccine. I doubt we will have a vaccine by the end of the year and may never have a vaccine. Look at HIV. Look at other viral entities. Any death is too many deaths. The death rate is higher for COVID-19 than for the flu as far as actual numbers in the US even if the percentage is lower because the infection rate is quite high for COVID. I would say I’m done ranting now but it’s unlikely. When I do walk in and my patients aren’t wearing their masks they invariably say that they don’t think that I should mind because I’m sure they don’t have it and it’s so hard to talk to me with a mask. And it’s hot and uncomfortable. And it impinges on their rights. I leave mine on and say nothing and honestly wonder why my life isn’t valuable enough for them to protect me. Sorry about the long post. This has been bugging me for a long time.


That's not venting, and it sure reminds ME that other's are being slammed by Covid 19, and honestly, I am not touched in a bad way by it. I love the roads being empty, I have gone speeding up and down 99N, just because I could, I've been self-isolating since before it was fashionable, so what's new there? The grocery store has 'a seniors hours', no freakin kids running screaming up and down, shelves are stocked now always, and the bone of contention...
MASKS...I like that as well. I'm old and wrinkled now, so covering my face is cool, and I get to make-up my eyes dramatically. I think masks are fun, I have 13 of them now, I have 2 favorites, my NASCAR checkered flag, and one of cartoon turtles with dumb smiles on their faces. This is my opinion on that...Our bi**h governor made masks mandatory, and FB has just blown up...even some of my friends, (yes, I do have a couple), are complaining about their rights being taken away. Well, what about MY rights and you putting this old lady in jeopardy because you are too vain to protect ME from YOU. If you are asymptomatic you can make me sick if you are not wearing a mask. So when I see you in town in a mall, without a mask I know just how selfish you really are. 
About 2 months ago I had a Drs appt. So I show up, knock on the door and a tech come out with a thermometer, does her thing and says I'll be right back...and she was, telling me I had a temp of 102.5, I couldn't come in. Now, ok I do understand all that protection stuff, but I don't necessarily go to the Dr when I'm feeling good, so now I've got an appointment because I'm sick, but I can't go in and see the DR because I'm sick. So I go home and got sicker and sicker. Last week I had an appointment, the DR come in the room in complete PPE. 2 freakin face masks, one a clear full face shield, and over his nose and mouth a mask with 2 respirators on it. I said you're kidding, right? Nope and in the 20 minute appt I understood 4 words I think. It made me feel less than, I took it personally I think. Well, I know I took it personally, but at least I was wearing a mask; the one with classic cars on it...


----------



## Maggie3fan

ZEROPILOT said:


> Maggie is one of my many friends here.
> She just came to my rescue.
> Stick around. She'll probably become a friend of yours, too.


ME??? Why do you throw my name at a kid? If I had said something offensive Y would have deleted it. Believe me, there is NO advantage to having her as my sister on this forum, just the opposite, did the kid complain about me? Never mind, it ain't no thing. I have a race in 3 hrs so gotta go do tort things and mow the front before the race.


----------



## Lokkje

maggie3fan said:


> That's not venting, and it sure reminds ME that other's are being slammed by Covid 19, and honestly, I am not touched in a bad way by it. I love the roads being empty, I have gone speeding up and down 99N, just because I could, I've been self-isolating since before it was fashionable, so what's new there? The grocery store has 'a seniors hours', no freakin kids running screaming up and down, shelves are stocked now always, and the bone of contention...
> MASKS...I like that as well. I'm old and wrinkled now, so covering my face is cool, and I get to make-up my eyes dramatically. I think masks are fun, I have 13 of them now, I have 2 favorites, my NASCAR checkered flag, and one of cartoon turtles with dumb smiles on their faces. This is my opinion on that...Our bi**h governor made masks mandatory, and FB has just blown up...even some of my friends, (yes, I do have a couple), are complaining about their rights being taken away. Well, what about MY rights and you putting this old lady in jeopardy because you are too vain to protect ME from YOU. If you are asymptomatic you can make me sick if you are not wearing a mask. So when I see you in town in a mall, without a mask I know just how selfish you really are.
> About 2 months ago I had a Drs appt. So I show up, knock on the door and a tech come out with a thermometer, does her thing and says I'll be right back...and she was, telling me I had a temp of 102.5, I couldn't come in. Now, ok I do understand all that protection stuff, but I don't necessarily go to the Dr when I'm feeling good, so now I've got an appointment because I'm sick, but I can't go in and see the DR because I'm sick. So I go home and got sicker and sicker. Last week I had an appointment, the DR come in the room in complete PPE. 2 freakin face masks, one a clear full face shield, and over his nose and mouth a mask with 2 respirators on it. I said you're kidding, right? Nope and in the 20 minute appt I understood 4 words I think. It made me feel less than, I took it personally I think. Well, I know I took it personally, but at least I was wearing a mask; the one with classic cars on it...
> View attachment 299230





maggie3fan said:


> That's not venting, and it sure reminds ME that other's are being slammed by Covid 19, and honestly, I am not touched in a bad way by it. I love the roads being empty, I have gone speeding up and down 99N, just because I could, I've been self-isolating since before it was fashionable, so what's new there? The grocery store has 'a seniors hours', no freakin kids running screaming up and down, shelves are stocked now always, and the bone of contention...
> MASKS...I like that as well. I'm old and wrinkled now, so covering my face is cool, and I get to make-up my eyes dramatically. I think masks are fun, I have 13 of them now, I have 2 favorites, my NASCAR checkered flag, and one of cartoon turtles with dumb smiles on their faces. This is my opinion on that...Our bi**h governor made masks mandatory, and FB has just blown up...even some of my friends, (yes, I do have a couple), are complaining about their rights being taken away. Well, what about MY rights and you putting this old lady in jeopardy because you are too vain to protect ME from YOU. If you are asymptomatic you can make me sick if you are not wearing a mask. So when I see you in town in a mall, without a mask I know just how selfish you really are.
> About 2 months ago I had a Drs appt. So I show up, knock on the door and a tech come out with a thermometer, does her thing and says I'll be right back...and she was, telling me I had a temp of 102.5, I couldn't come in. Now, ok I do understand all that protection stuff, but I don't necessarily go to the Dr when I'm feeling good, so now I've got an appointment because I'm sick, but I can't go in and see the DR because I'm sick. So I go home and got sicker and sicker. Last week I had an appointment, the DR come in the room in complete PPE. 2 freakin face masks, one a clear full face shield, and over his nose and mouth a mask with 2 respirators on it. I said you're kidding, right? Nope and in the 20 minute appt I understood 4 words I think. It made me feel less than, I took it personally I think. Well, I know I took it personally, but at least I was wearing a mask; the one with classic cars on it...
> View attachment 299230


Nice mask! I hope you’re feeling better. It is ironic that a doctor would throw you out when you’re sick. Weird times.


----------



## Cathie G

Pastel Tortie said:


> I'm so glad you vented. Please vent again, as much as you want. ?
> 
> I could be wrong, but I think if you visit a medical office in Florida, you have to wear a face mask. The entire time. And you aren't likely to be visiting a medical office in Florida if there's any way they can possibly handle your issue remotely.
> 
> When I got my hair cut recently, I had to wear a mask. It was something to get used to, but I understood the why.
> 
> I think it's even more important for medical professionals to share and vent about stuff like this (if they want to and feel up to it). It's a perspective we don't often see directly.


I totally agree with that. Because I have a daughter in law that's an RN volunteer through all of this I'm hearing things that aren't being said on most of the news stations.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

maggie3fan said:


> ME??? Why do you throw my name at a kid? If I had said something offensive Y would have deleted it. Believe me, there is NO advantage to having her as my sister on this forum, just the opposite, did the kid complain about me? Never mind, it ain't no thing. I have a race in 3 hrs so gotta go do tort things and mow the front before the race.


No Maggie.
I think you must have misunderstood my intentions.
And no.
Nobody complained about you.
It wasn't meant to be anything negative at all. More of a joke.


----------



## Maggie3fan

ZEROPILOT said:


> No Maggie.
> I think you must have misunderstood my intentions.
> And no.
> Nobody complained about you.
> It wasn't meant to be anything negative at all. More of a joke.


I would never misunderstand your intentions, I just went back on you...lol Yes, I guess I did stick up for you. I never thought about it that way. I believe you are a genuinely nice person, and you wouldn't be mean. I trust you


----------



## ZEROPILOT

maggie3fan said:


> I would never misunderstand your intentions, I just went back on you...lol Yes, I guess I did stick up for you. I never thought about it that way. I believe you are a genuinely nice person, and you wouldn't be mean. I trust you


Good
You know that I honestly care for you.
We are indeed friends.
And thanks for sticking up for me


----------



## Cathie G

ZEROPILOT said:


> Everyone's opinion matters here.
> And even if you're 14 years old, it's fine to toss in your opinion.
> This development and others are shaping YOUR world as a young American.
> I'm old.


Yep.? TFO is so much fun.


----------



## Cathie G

Blackdog1714 said:


> That is not VENTING! You are just being honest about a topic that ranges from far-fetched to world ending point of views from EXPERTS and blather heads! COVID-19 is very contagious so please wear a mask around others, wash hands frequently, and please stay 60' feet away from me! I know how far a sneeze travels and I would hate to have to pop you in the kisser for sneezing on me now.


Amen.


----------



## Cathie G

ZEROPILOT said:


> DeSantis is a Republican.
> Our Democratic candidate for governor ended up being a crack head.
> I didn't put a political spin on the facts.


Interesting.


----------



## Pastel Tortie

Due to COVID, there has been a move toward non-congregate sheltering planning for hurricane season. Basically, that's how to shelter from the tropical cyclone without cramming your sheltering population into places that would backfire from a COVID prevention and control standpoint. So sheltering in schools is probably not a good idea this year, at least for at-risk populations for COVID. 

Not loving what I see on the National Hurricane Center's Atlantic 5-Day Graphical Tropical Weather Outlook at https://www.nhc.noaa.gov/gtwo.php... The area it shows for 40-60 percent development stretches across the entire Florida Panhandle, then up the Eastern Seaboard. Highest likelihood of development is after it gets into the Atlantic. So... Fun with weather for some people, the next few days. Maybe.


----------



## Cathie G

Pastel Tortie said:


> Due to COVID, there has been a move toward non-congregate sheltering planning for hurricane season. Basically, that's how to shelter from the tropical cyclone without cramming your sheltering population into places that would backfire from a COVID prevention and control standpoint. So sheltering in schools is probably not a good idea this year, at least for at-risk populations for COVID.
> 
> Not loving what I see on the National Hurricane Center's Atlantic 5-Day Graphical Tropical Weather Outlook at https://www.nhc.noaa.gov/gtwo.php... The area it shows for 40-60 percent development stretches across the entire Florida Panhandle, then up the Eastern Seaboard. Highest likelihood of development is after it gets into the Atlantic. So... Fun with weather for some people, the next few days. Maybe.


I'll be thinking,hoping,and praying for all of our Florida friends. Hurricane with a pandemic is a crazy thought..it's not an easy state to live in.?


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Pastel Tortie said:


> Due to COVID, there has been a move toward non-congregate sheltering planning for hurricane season. Basically, that's how to shelter from the tropical cyclone without cramming your sheltering population into places that would backfire from a COVID prevention and control standpoint. So sheltering in schools is probably not a good idea this year, at least for at-risk populations for COVID.
> 
> Not loving what I see on the National Hurricane Center's Atlantic 5-Day Graphical Tropical Weather Outlook at https://www.nhc.noaa.gov/gtwo.php... The area it shows for 40-60 percent development stretches across the entire Florida Panhandle, then up the Eastern Seaboard. Highest likelihood of development is after it gets into the Atlantic. So... Fun with weather for some people, the next few days. Maybe.


No El Nino. Hot seas.
It'll be a rough one


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Cathie G said:


> I'll be thinking,hoping,and praying for all of our Florida friends. Hurricane with a pandemic is a crazy thought..it's not an easy state to live in.?


Soon the whole neighborhood will be waving at me and wanting to talk....
They know I repair generators....But I know that they still have the same old rotten gasoline in them from the last hurricane!
Drain your gas tanks and run your engine until it's out of gas at the end of every season.
And use fuel stabilizer, people.


----------



## queen koopa

ZEROPILOT said:


> Soon the whole neighborhood will be waving at me and wanting to talk....
> They know I repair generators....But I know that they still have the same old rotten gasoline in them from the last hurricane!
> Drain your gas tanks and run your engine until it's out of gas at the end of every season.
> And use fuel stabilizer, people.


The more I read of yours, the more I think you must be one of them real handy men.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

queen koopa said:


> The more I read of yours, the more I think you must be one of them real handy men.


One of the few benefits of growing up without a father, I suppose.


----------



## KronksMom

I saw a really cool YouTube channel for people in that situation called something like "Dad, how do I" and it is him showing how to do a bunch of things that typically a father would teach you how to do. Things like unclog a sink or tie a tie, stuff like that. He said that growing up without a father, he wanted to create a place for other kids to look for the answers to those questions that he struggled to find. Or something like that, I came across it a while ago, my explanation probably isn't doing it justice. But it sounds like a guy just making the most out of what life gave him, and trying help others in a similar situation.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

KronksMom said:


> I saw a really cool YouTube channel for people in that situation called something like "Dad, how do I" and it is him showing how to do a bunch of things that typically a father would teach you how to do. Things like unclog a sink or tie a tie, stuff like that. He said that growing up without a father, he wanted to create a place for other kids to look for the answers to those questions that he struggled to find. Or something like that, I came across it a while ago, my explanation probably isn't doing it justice. But it sounds like a guy just making the most out of what life gave him, and trying help others in a similar situation.


I learned how to repair everything because I was the dad.
We also didn't have extra money to get things fixed.
Later on I also went to school and got better acquainted with mechanical things. Then professionally repaired them for 36 years for my local school boards vehicle maintenance department.
Now I hold several useless ASE certificates as well as Honda, Kawasaki and Polaris factory training.
None of which I'll likely ever need again


----------



## Cathie G

KronksMom said:


> I saw a really cool YouTube channel for people in that situation called something like "Dad, how do I" and it is him showing how to do a bunch of things that typically a father would teach you how to do. Things like unclog a sink or tie a tie, stuff like that. He said that growing up without a father, he wanted to create a place for other kids to look for the answers to those questions that he struggled to find. Or something like that, I came across it a while ago, my explanation probably isn't doing it justice. But it sounds like a guy just making the most out of what life gave him, and trying help others in a similar situation.


Our news on channel 10 did an article on him just recently. He's probably getting really popular.


----------



## Maggie3fan

ZEROPILOT said:


> I learned how to repair everything because I was the dad.
> We also didn't have extra money to get things fixed.
> Later on I also went to school and got better acquainted with mechanical things. Then professionally repaired them for 36 years for my local school boards vehicle maintenance department.
> Now I hold several useless ASE certificates as well as Honda, Kawasaki and Polaris factory training.
> None of which I'll likely ever need again


Are you proficient in Chevy?


----------



## ZEROPILOT

maggie3fan said:


> Are you proficient in Chevy?


REAL ONES like yours?
Or the crap ones GM is selling now?


----------



## Maggie3fan

ZEROPILOT said:


> REAL ONES like yours?
> Or the crap ones GM is selling now?


Real ones. Actually, my transmission... with 58 thousand miles on it needs to be rebuilt, the warranty ends one f'ing month before this rebuild thing. I can't manually downshift. And when you drive a car with a 30 year old braking system, ya want to be able to use the tranny to help slow down. So my guy sent me to a tranny shop and he says there's a switch inside the transmission that makes it downshift, mine broke and they say the tranny needs to be rebuilt, $3000. Seriously? It might not be necessary to a lot of people, but I take a lot of road trips, fast highway driving, so the brakes need help stopping. I have to slow from what ever speed I'm doing on a 2 lane hiway, and I have to slow to turn right, over bumpy rr tracks to get home. It's gotten scary a few times trying to slow down enuf and still not have Joe Redneck's truck rear end me.
So my question to you would be "does this make sense to you? Only 58 thousand miles on it?"


----------



## ZEROPILOT

maggie3fan said:


> Real ones. Actually, my transmission... with 58 thousand miles on it needs to be rebuilt, the warranty ends one f'ing month before this rebuild thing. I can't manually downshift. And when you drive a car with a 30 year old braking system, ya want to be able to use the tranny to help slow down. So my guy sent me to a tranny shop and he says there's a switch inside the transmission that makes it downshift, mine broke and they say the tranny needs to be rebuilt, $3000. Seriously? It might not be necessary to a lot of people, but I take a lot of road trips, fast highway driving, so the brakes need help stopping. I have to slow from what ever speed I'm doing on a 2 lane hiway, and I have to slow to turn right, over bumpy rr tracks to get home. It's gotten scary a few times trying to slow down enuf and still not have Joe Redneck's truck rear end me.
> So my question to you would be "does this make sense to you? Only 58 thousand miles on it?"


The clutch packs in each automatic transmission wear out differently according to how they are used. The valve bodies are usually good for a lot longer. Especially with good, clean fluid.
These days, its VERY common for a transmission to fail at 50,000 miles (Nissan for example) Anything with a JATCO transmission.
Do you have an old "Turbo" TH 350 trans. or a later electronic shift deal?
If you have an old TH 350 you could probably have a shop install a manual valve body, or do a rebuild much cheaper.
Or shop around because that seems very expensive.
I'm actually not certified in automatic transmission.
I would guess you have a 700R4 tranny.
Maybe a rebuilt older TH350 could be an inexpensive option?
And I wouldn't even try to repair a later model transmission.

One thing to check is the shifter linkage itself.
Can you shift into second while regular driving?


----------



## Yvonne G

maggie3fan said:


> Real ones. Actually, my transmission... with 58 thousand miles on it needs to be rebuilt, the warranty ends one f'ing month before this rebuild thing. I can't manually downshift. And when you drive a car with a 30 year old braking system, ya want to be able to use the tranny to help slow down. So my guy sent me to a tranny shop and he says there's a switch inside the transmission that makes it downshift, mine broke and they say the tranny needs to be rebuilt, $3000. Seriously? It might not be necessary to a lot of people, but I take a lot of road trips, fast highway driving, so the brakes need help stopping. I have to slow from what ever speed I'm doing on a 2 lane hiway, and I have to slow to turn right, over bumpy rr tracks to get home. It's gotten scary a few times trying to slow down enuf and still not have Joe Redneck's truck rear end me.
> So my question to you would be "does this make sense to you? Only 58 thousand miles on it?"


One has to take into account your radical, race car way of driving, so, yes, it makes sense. Normal drivers take their foot off the gas way before the turn so compression starts slowing the car and down shifting isn't necessary.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Yvonne G said:


> One has to take into account your radical, race car way of driving, so, yes, it makes sense. Normal drivers take their foot off the gas way before the turn so compression starts slowing the car and down shifting isn't necessary.


That's why maybe a manual valve body would be a good thing for her.
It makes an automatic transmission shift manually. And hits second gear hard enough to spin the tires.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Now the virus is getting personal.
A co workers 14 year old daughter has COVID-19.
One more person in the building my wife works in has it.
Right now. 11:36 PM An ambulance is driving away with my neighbor who can not breathe.
She and her husband have it.
She does NOT look good right now.
I hope you can understand that I didn't want to take a photo outside of her and her family...


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Big difference now than when this post began


----------



## KarenSoCal

ZEROPILOT said:


> Now the virus is getting personal.
> A co workers 14 year old daughter has COVID-19.
> One more person in the building my wife works in has it.
> Right now. 11:36 PM An ambulance is driving away with my neighbor who can not breathe.
> She and her husband have it.
> She does NOT look good right now.
> I hope you can understand that I didn't want to take a photo outside of her and her family...


You're correct...that is getting personal! Please...stay inside and don't get sick!

Not taking a picture outside shows common sense, compassion, and empathy for other people. The world needs more folks like you, Ed.


----------



## Blackdog1714

Yvonne G said:


> One has to take into account your radical, race car way of driving, so, yes, it makes sense. Normal drivers take their foot off the gas way before the turn so compression starts slowing the car and down shifting isn't necessary.


Maggie don't listen to her. Accelerating in a turn is one of the very few true joys in my life!


----------



## Maggie3fan

Actually, I don't listen. My family has been insulting my driving since I bought that car. I do drive fast, I do burn-outs, I do drag race. But I believe most people judge my driving skills, by their less than average driving skills. I am an above average driver. I have taken 2 offensive driving courses at the Bob Bondurant School of Offensive driving, I took a drifting course, and got a CDL. I love to drive. To me driving is like a chess game. How many of you can slide your car, and pull out of that slide? How many of you have had your car over 100 mph? Over 120? My car is not just a performance car, it's a get down hot rod. I have hand crank windows, NO cup holder, no power seats, no power doors, what I DO have is, a 5 year old LT1 engine, a 5 year old turbo 350 transmission, complete front end and steering stuff is 2 years old. It is very fast. I have taken such good care of it, it's clean, fast and pretty. And IF my driving was as dangerous as my family thinks it is, I would probably have had a wreck in the 30 years I've been hot rodding around the country in this car. But I haven't had or caused a wreck with my driving. I like to drive and I like to and have been taught how to drive fast. So don't judge MY driving by your bad skill set.
I confess to, tailgating, honking, yelling out the window, speeding, drag racing in town.



Blackdog1714 said:


> Maggie don't listen to her. Accelerating in a turn is one of the very few true joys in my life!


Y calls my driving "radical", but she drives a top of the line Dodge truck, and she does not drive over 45, she can't park it, won't take it on the hiway. lol love ya sis!


----------



## Maro2Bear

Yep, it IS getting worse. More and more infections translates into more deaths. Old, young, pre-existing conditions or no. Hospitals are filling up in Florida. A few months ago, we basically had NYC as the epicenter...now we have multiple areas all getting worse. Oh, and lets open schools early! Hold on, this ride ain’t over. (Sadly)


----------



## Yvonne G

maggie3fan said:


> Actually, I don't listen. My family has been insulting my driving since I bought that car. I do drive fast, I do burn-outs, I do drag race. But I believe most people judge my driving skills, by their less than average driving skills. I am an above average driver. I have taken 2 offensive driving courses at the Bob Bondurant School of Offensive driving, I took a drifting course, and got a CDL. I love to drive. To me driving is like a chess game. How many of you can slide your car, and pull out of that slide? How many of you have had your car over 100 mph? Over 120? My car is not just a performance car, it's a get down hot rod. I have hand crank windows, NO cup holder, no power seats, no power doors, what I DO have is, a 5 year old LT1 engine, a 5 year old turbo 350 transmission, complete front end and steering stuff is 2 years old. It is very fast. I have taken such good care of it, it's clean, fast and pretty. And IF my driving was as dangerous as my family thinks it is, I would probably have had a wreck in the 30 years I've been hot rodding around the country in this car. But I haven't had or caused a wreck with my driving. I like to drive and I like to and have been taught how to drive fast. So don't judge MY driving by your bad skill set.
> I confess to, tailgating, honking, yelling out the window, speeding, drag racing in town.
> 
> 
> Y calls my driving "radical", but she drives a top of the line Dodge truck, and she does not drive over 45, she can't park it, won't take it on the hiway. lol love ya sis!
> View attachment 299442


Don't include me in that 'my family' comment. I have never said anything about your car or your driving. The only reason I made the above comment was because YOU asked if it was reasonable for that part to wear out so soon. And because of the way you drive, yes, it is reasonable. So take back the exaggeration about MY driving.


----------



## Maggie3fan

ZEROPILOT said:


> The clutch packs in each automatic transmission wear out differently according to how they are used. The valve bodies are usually good for a lot longer. Especially with good, clean fluid.
> These days, its VERY common for a transmission to fail at 50,000 miles (Nissan for example) Anything with a JATCO transmission.
> Do you have an old "Turbo" TH 350 trans. or a later electronic shift deal?
> If you have an old TH 350 you could probably have a shop install a manual valve body, or do a rebuild much cheaper.
> Or shop around because that seems very expensive.
> I'm actually not certified in automatic transmission.
> I would guess you have a 700R4 tranny.
> Maybe a rebuilt older TH350 could be an inexpensive option?
> And I wouldn't even try to repair a later model transmission.
> 
> One thing to check is the shifter linkage itself.
> Can you shift into second while regular driving?





Yvonne G said:


> Don't include me in that 'my family' comment. I have never said anything about your car or your driving. The only reason I made the above comment was because YOU asked if it was reasonable for that part to wear out so soon. And because of the way you drive, yes, it is reasonable. So take back the exaggeration about MY driving.


Oh come on! I have been teasing you about your driving ever since you got the silver truck. But, ok, I take back the part about your parking


----------



## Maggie3fan

Yvonne G said:


> Don't include me in that 'my family' comment. I have never said anything about your car or your driving. The only reason I made the above comment was because YOU asked if it was reasonable for that part to wear out so soon. And because of the way you drive, yes, it is reasonable. So take back the exaggeration about MY driving.


Thought about it all night, kept me awake. So...I am sorry that anyone would confuse something that I intended to be funny that wasn't funny, and new comers who don't understand our relationship 'could' think we really were arguing. I am sorry, Yvonne, seriously, you never do harass me about my car/driving. I really am apologizing and won't tease you about driving in the future. I am sorry


----------



## Maro2Bear

maggie3fan said:


> Thought about it all night, kept me awake. So...I am sorry that anyone would confuse something that I intended to be funny that wasn't funny, and new comers who don't understand our relationship 'could' think we really were arguing. I am sorry, Yvonne, seriously, you never do harass me about my car/driving. I really am apologizing and won't tease you about driving in the future. I am sorry



Ogh, go ahead, keep teasing! It keeps us all entertained & we all know you are just messing about! Crank it up! All in fun.


----------



## queen koopa

KarenSoCal said:


> You're correct...that is getting personal! Please...stay inside and don't get sick!
> 
> Not taking a picture outside shows common sense, compassion, and empathy for other people. The world needs more folks like you, Ed.


Agreed more Eds.
But we as Americans need to stop making a virus personal. Horrible and good things happen to our families and friends all the time. Making it personal turns people against eachother for no actual reason, its an emotion. No person, group, country, or face covering (aka fabric or paper) can stop the spread of these viruses we come into contact with and HAVE been coming into contact with since we became “civilized”.
There’s no preventative care included in western medicine which goes hand in hand with our western diet. When everything was shut down, fast food joints were all open. Who the F deemed them essential ? Essential for keeping your immune system in shambles? Our only ACTUAL protection against viruses!?


----------



## queen koopa

Here in nevada the national guard is doing testing, their orders are only to December. And I learned that each covid test they do and the results are inconclusive, it is recorded as a positive. That from the mouth of a national guardsmen. So technically multiple positives are being recorded for the same person.


----------



## Maggie3fan

Maro2Bear said:


> Ogh, go ahead, keep teasing! It keeps us all entertained & we all know you are just messing about! Crank it up! All in fun.


Maybe you haven't noticed my sister generally does not have a sense of humor when it comes to me and my antics. So believe you me, I have learned when to stop. And now is that time.
American Goldfinches have arrived in Corvallis, they are chasing each other around and crowding my feeders. And having babies I'm pretty sure this guy is an adolescent he's been sitting there looking in my bedroom window all 
morning.


----------



## Yvonne G

maggie3fan said:


> Thought about it all night, kept me awake. So...I am sorry that anyone would confuse something that I intended to be funny that wasn't funny, and new comers who don't understand our relationship 'could' think we really were arguing. I am sorry, Yvonne, seriously, you never do harass me about my car/driving. I really am apologizing and won't tease you about driving in the future. I am sorry


Didn't I read something from you several posts ago that you don't feel guilt??


----------



## Maggie3fan

Yvonne G said:


> Didn't I read something from you several posts ago that you don't feel guilt??


Yeah, but right under that I said it was a lie. That I had been raised a Catholic and I felt guilty when it rained even.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Putin just announced that Russia has a vaccine. That it's already in use and works perfectly.
They named it SPUTNIK as a rub to us when Russia beat the USA into space.
(Talk about holding a grudge)
It would sure be a great PR stunt for Russia to share this vaccine with the world...
If it indeed exists.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

maggie3fan said:


> Yeah, but right under that I said it was a lie. That I had been raised a Catholic and I felt guilty when it rained even.


I was raised Catholic too.
It causes brain damage.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Moms home still has COVID-19 contained.
Still no fatalities.
Still no hospitalization required.


----------



## Pastel Tortie

ZEROPILOT said:


> Putin just announced that Russia has a vaccine. That it's already in use and works perfectly.
> They named it SPUTNIK as a rub to us when Russia beat the USA into space.
> (Talk about holding a grudge)
> It would sure be a great PR stunt for Russia to share this vaccine with the world...
> If it indeed exists.


There's no such thing as a vaccine that works Perfectly.


----------



## Yvonne G

My son's infant grandson had the infant version of the virus (only one in the household with any version of it). Spent a couple days in the hospital, then sent home with meds.He's fine now.


----------



## Blackdog1714

maggie3fan said:


> Actually, I don't listen. My family has been insulting my driving since I bought that car. I do drive fast, I do burn-outs, I do drag race. But I believe most people judge my driving skills, by their less than average driving skills. I am an above average driver. I have taken 2 offensive driving courses at the Bob Bondurant School of Offensive driving, I took a drifting course, and got a CDL. I love to drive. To me driving is like a chess game. How many of you can slide your car, and pull out of that slide? How many of you have had your car over 100 mph? Over 120? My car is not just a performance car, it's a get down hot rod. I have hand crank windows, NO cup holder, no power seats, no power doors, what I DO have is, a 5 year old LT1 engine, a 5 year old turbo 350 transmission, complete front end and steering stuff is 2 years old. It is very fast. I have taken such good care of it, it's clean, fast and pretty. And IF my driving was as dangerous as my family thinks it is, I would probably have had a wreck in the 30 years I've been hot rodding around the country in this car. But I haven't had or caused a wreck with my driving. I like to drive and I like to and have been taught how to drive fast. So don't judge MY driving by your bad skill set.
> I confess to, tailgating, honking, yelling out the window, speeding, drag racing in town.
> 
> 
> Y calls my driving "radical", but she drives a top of the line Dodge truck, and she does not drive over 45, she can't park it, won't take it on the hiway. lol love ya sis!
> View attachment 299442


WOW- A BOB B school and twice! I learned to drift growing up in Ohio with a rear wheel drive car in snow! I have been to a couple of more basic schools, but had some special education sessions with more experienced instructors. Not that it will do me much good, but I know where to aim to get through two cars blocking my path! High speed slide recovery is so awesome and my favorite is offroad to pavement recovery although my fastest was a measly 70 MPH the instructor left fingerprints in the dash! For a special few 4 Wheel Therapy is real. My brother went to a track school years ago in SOCAL and had a dedicated NIssan 240 SX with a roll cage. He with stealth upgrade all his rides- Imagine and Acura G with bigger jets and 3" stainless exhaust- 4 doors or wheel spin!


----------



## Lokkje

maggie3fan said:


> Maybe you haven't noticed my sister generally does not have a sense of humor when it comes to me and my antics. So believe you me, I have learned when to stop. And now is that time.
> American Goldfinches have arrived in Corvallis, they are chasing each other around and crowding my feeders. And having babies I'm pretty sure this guy is an adolescent he's been sitting there looking in my bedroom window all
> morning.
> View attachment 299538
> 
> View attachment 299540


At least your sis talks to you. Beautiful birds.


----------



## Cathie G

ZEROPILOT said:


> Moms home still has COVID-19 contained.
> Still no fatalities.
> Still no hospitalization required.


That's great. I've been wondering how she's doing. You really did find a good nursing home.


----------



## queen koopa

Pastel Tortie said:


> There's no such thing as a vaccine that works Perfectly.


Right!


----------



## Cathie G

Yvonne G said:


> My son's infant grandson had the infant version of the virus (only one in the household with any version of it). Spent a couple days in the hospital, then sent home with meds.He's fine now.


Oh good. Another one that's been on my mind is doing good. I let Joe go back to one of his adult programs July I st. I know I'm taking a big chance but we always put his clothes in the dryer on sanitizer anyway when he gets home. He has a way of picking up things because he doesn't know how to protect himself. They also have really strict quidelines in place and it'll be some reinforcement of what I've been trying to teach him. He doesn't always want to listen to me because I'm his sister ?.


----------



## jaizei

ZEROPILOT said:


> Putin just announced that Russia has a vaccine. That it's already in use and works perfectly.
> They named it SPUTNIK as a rub to us when Russia beat the USA into space.
> (Talk about holding a grudge)
> It would sure be a great PR stunt for Russia to share this vaccine with the world...
> If it indeed exists.



It hasn't been thoroughly tested. There are several other vaccines at similar stages.

It's actually the second vaccine to receive "approval" (without the normal testing), the first was approved by China for use by it's military.


----------



## Duckster RT

CT. It was bad at the start up to late Spring. Now the state is going forward. Temperature are scanned and ppl are still careful. Most things r open.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Blackdog1714 said:


> WOW- A BOB B school and twice! I learned to drift growing up in Ohio with a rear wheel drive car in snow! I have been to a couple of more basic schools, but had some special education sessions with more experienced instructors. Not that it will do me much good, but I know where to aim to get through two cars blocking my path! High speed slide recovery is so awesome and my favorite is offroad to pavement recovery although my fastest was a measly 70 MPH the instructor left fingerprints in the dash! For a special few 4 Wheel Therapy is real. My brother went to a track school years ago in SOCAL and had a dedicated NIssan 240 SX with a roll cage. He with stealth upgrade all his rides- Imagine and Acura G with bigger jets and 3" stainless exhaust- 4 doors or wheel spin!


This was my RWD Toyota Starlet 
It had a later model twin cam engine and a posi rear end.
While not as fast as any of my motorcycles, it was great at smoking the tires.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Cathie G said:


> That's great. I've been wondering how she's doing. You really did find a good nursing home.


I've been very pleased with them


----------



## ZEROPILOT

jaizei said:


> It hasn't been thoroughly tested. There are several other vaccines at similar stages.
> 
> It's actually the second vaccine to receive "approval" (without the normal testing), the first was approved by China for use by it's military.


I suppose I wouldn't expect Russia or China to do any rigorous testing.


----------



## Pastel Tortie

jaizei said:


> It hasn't been thoroughly tested. There are several other vaccines at similar stages.
> 
> It's actually the second vaccine to receive "approval" (without the normal testing), the first was approved by China for use by it's military.


Here's hoping that their penchant and overall regard for safety protocols has improved since Chernobyl.


----------



## Cathie G

This reply is all my new phone's fault. I accidentally touched something. I'm still on the same page with vaccines against a cold virus. I don't want to influence anyone that needs to take one but I probably won't. I've actually been asked if Im aware of the disease processes when I refuse the flue vaccines every year. It's like yea and I'm thinking at my age why wouldn't I know by now. Now I'm reading online that some people have tcells that have been exposed to other corona viruses. They get nothing more than a common cold. Or are asymptomatic. I've not had the vaccines and I'm on medication that depresses your immune system yet I get nothing more than the common cold if that. So no don't stick me with a needle that hasn't been researched for years and then tell me later. Our research says we made a booboo.


----------



## Tidgy's Dad

COVID IN MOROCCO.

Government locked down early in March.
Soon stopped international travel, nobody allowed in or out, even Moroccan nationals not allowed to come home. A few repatriation flights were permitted for tourists stuck in Morocco but most had to remain here.
Shut most shops and all the mosques.
Exceptional movement permits necessary even for a visit to the potato shop.
A night time curfew was introduced.
Riots in three cities were met with a heavy response and ringleaders imprisoned.
Social media fearmongers and those posting fake news were also arrested.
Military vehicles patrolled the streets.
Within days facemasks became compulsory and the country had so many there was no excuse for not wearing them and we exported them to our poor European neighbours who had shortages and increasing case numbers and deaths. We also make our own ventilators. 
The police arrested a few thousand people for breaking rules.
People behaved themselves and we had very few cases and deaths.
Even this was slowly declining.

Then came Ramadan and before the festival at the end of the fast, the government eased the shutdown.
Families travelled about, people stopped wearing masks, cafe's reopened (and some mosques) Moroccans stranded abroad returned and this continued to Eid al Adha, the bigger festival, a month or so later.
So, we now have increasing cases, more deaths than ever and Morocco is becoming the new epicentre for Africa.
People refuse to wear their masks again and all hell is about to break loose.


----------



## Tidgy's Dad

As for us, wifey has been out about six times in five months; a couple of times to the chemist and a few times to the supermarket to stock up on cheese and alcohol. The supermarket was an early hotspot, closed and decontaminated and then reopened with walk through spray things, hand sanitizing, walk though trays to get your shoes and all sorts.
Not that I've been. I go out to buy essentials only, maybe once or twice a week, plus once to the post office.
We are not permitted to leave the country or our city.
No one has entered our apartment except the guy who delivers our gas cylinders.
I cancelled all our students back in March, so we survive on wifey's pension, which gets a little smaller every month.
But we are better off than most and are quite content.
I spend my days reading, studying, prepping my fossils and sitting in the sun with Tidgy.
Tidgy loves it. No strangers in her territory and mummy and daddy spoiling her rotten.


----------



## Tidgy's Dad

We had a shortage of eggs in the first week of lockdown. 
Now there is a shortage of prickly pear. 
Toilet paper supply has never been a problem here, as most don't use it.


----------



## Pastel Tortie

Tidgy's Dad said:


> As for us, wifey has been out about six times in five months; a couple of times to the chemist and a few times to the supermarket to stock up on cheese and alcohol. The supermarket was an early hotspot, closed and decontaminated and then reopened with walk through spray things, hand sanitizing, walk though trays to get your shoes and all sorts.


They're using foot baths (walk through trays) over there for COVID? I wonder what they're using in them. 

I vaguely recall that with the foot-and-mouth disease outbreak in the UK in 2001, at least some foot baths (on whichever side of the pond) contained a Virkon product.


----------



## Tidgy's Dad

Pastel Tortie said:


> They're using foot baths (walk through trays) over there for COVID? I wonder what they're using in them.
> 
> I vaguely recall that with the foot-and-mouth disease outbreak in the UK in 2001, at least some foot baths (on whichever side of the pond) contained a Virkon product.


I remember the UK thing. 
But no idea what's in it. wifey doesn't know either.


----------



## Cathie G

Tidgy's Dad said:


> COVID IN MOROCCO.
> 
> Government locked down early in March.
> Soon stopped international travel, nobody allowed in or out, even Moroccan nationals not allowed to come home. A few repatriation flights were permitted for tourists stuck in Morocco but most had to remain here.
> Shut most shops and all the mosques.
> Exceptional movement permits necessary even for a visit to the potato shop.
> A night time curfew was introduced.
> Riots in three cities were met with a heavy response and ringleaders imprisoned.
> Social media fearmongers and those posting fake news were also arrested.
> Military vehicles patrolled the streets.
> Within days facemasks became compulsory and the country had so many there was no excuse for not wearing them and we exported them to our poor European neighbours who had shortages and increasing case numbers and deaths. We also make our own ventilators.
> The police arrested a few thousand people for breaking rules.
> People behaved themselves and we had very few cases and deaths.
> Even this was slowly declining.
> 
> Then came Ramadan and before the festival at the end of the fast, the government eased the shutdown.
> Families travelled about, people stopped wearing masks, cafe's reopened (and some mosques) Moroccans stranded abroad returned and this continued to Eid al Adha, the bigger festival, a month or so later.
> So, we now have increasing cases, more deaths than ever and Morocco is becoming the new epicentre for Africa.
> People refuse to wear their masks again and all hell is about to break loose.


Masks are one of my prevention methods and not just for covid. At least I don't look so weird anymore when I wear them. Anyone that doesn't take some precautions against a virus going around is just plain dumb.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

The last time a got the full blown FLU was less than 48 hours after I got my last FLU VACCINE.
About 12 years ago.
I've got some issues, but I don't often get sick.


----------



## Blackdog1714

I was a hermit before the COVID-19 so social distancing was SO EASY!


----------



## Maro2Bear

Tidgy's Dad said:


> I remember the UK thing.
> But no idea what's in it. wifey doesn't know either.



I think a lot of public swimming areas used to use those foot bath solutions. I remember as a kid going to a large amusement park with a large pool that used those foot cleansing areas for everyone entering the swimming pool area. Nothing like a 100% chlorine rinse on ones feet prior to a swim.


----------



## Toddrickfl1

Blackdog1714 said:


> I was a hermit before the COVID-19 so social distancing was SO EASY!


Me too, so your telling me to avoid other people and they'll avoid me? Sounds like paradise.....


----------



## Pastel Tortie

@Tidgy's Dad Do people in Morocco go barefoot?


----------



## Toddrickfl1

Things have returned to a little normalcy for me even though cases are exploding here again. I'm back to work now. The almost 4 month unemployment vacation was nice, but it got old quick. Now that I'm back to work im just trying to be mindful and take any precautions I can to protect myself. Im still avoiding most public places. Doesn't seem everyone has that same mentality though.


----------



## Maro2Bear

Pastel Tortie said:


> @Tidgy's Dad Do people in Morocco go barefoot?



When we lived in Tripoli, Libya, we took a week long trip over to Morocco. Stayed in Marrakesh (tourist mecca) which has so many things to see, but also traveled all about the country. Mountains, lakes, farms, and the coast. Rented an old villa that had a sunken pool in the courtyard. The coast at Essaouria was fantastic - fresh fish platters!


----------



## Tidgy's Dad

Pastel Tortie said:


> @Tidgy's Dad Do people in Morocco go barefoot?


Not usually. 
Sandals or babouche

in the summer.
Shoes or sandals in the short winter.


----------



## Maggie3fan

Yvonne G said:


> My son's infant grandson had the infant version of the virus (only one in the household with any version of it). Spent a couple days in the hospital, then sent home with meds.He's fine now.


James has a grandkid? Wow, I'm older than I thought. Alex's?


----------



## Maggie3fan

Blackdog1714 said:


> I was a hermit before the COVID-19 so social distancing was SO EASY!


I been saying "I practiced social distancing since before it was fashionable"; and my sister is worse than any of us, believe me.


----------



## Pastel Tortie

Tidgy's Dad said:


> Not usually.
> Sandals or babouche
> View attachment 303203
> in the summer.
> Shoes or sandals in the short winter.


I didn't think they'd go barefoot necessarily, but after @Maro2Bear's comment about foot baths at public swimming places when he was younger... I was curious if perhaps there was another risk factor in there somewhere.


----------



## Tidgy's Dad

Pastel Tortie said:


> I didn't think they'd go barefoot necessarily, but after @Maro2Bear's comment about foot baths at public swimming places when he was younger... I was curious if perhaps there was another risk factor in there somewhere.


Mark @Maro2Bear mentioned Essaouira, a lovely place, but also famous for the variety of scorpion species in the area. Every year, several children die from scorpion stings there, because they are walking among the rocks barefoot. The parents won't let them wear footwear as it's 'not traditional'.


----------



## Pastel Tortie

Foot baths are often used as part of biosecurity measures when there's a highly contagious, highly transmissible agricultural disease (usually diseases affecting livestock, but sometimes also for diseases affecting plants) that needs to be contained.


----------



## EllyMae

Sanitizing wipes are in stock at my local grocery store: limit 2!
Some weird brand I’ve never heard of.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

maggie3fan said:


> I been saying "I practiced social distancing since before it was fashionable"; and my sister is worse than any of us, believe me.


Maybe that's why so many of us are so comfortable calling people friends and knowing we'll likely never meet.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

@Tidgy's Dad 
I'm fascinated by other cultures.
Most Americans hardly ever leave the continental United States.
And even tough I've been throughout the Caribbean, the places and people are not vastly unlike areas of Florida.


----------



## Maro2Bear

ZEROPILOT said:


> @Tidgy's Dad
> I'm fascinated by other cultures.
> Most Americans hardly ever leave the continental United States.
> And even tough I've been throughout the Caribbean, the places and people are not vastly unlike areas of Florida.



Yes. It is good to get a passport and travel. Most of my travels have been to the Caribbean, Europe, Russia and it’s former territories and parts of the Middle East and Africa. Some on holiday, longer stays for work. Like....who can say they have visited or lived in Baku or Kyiv or Tbilisi for months on end! As well as a month or two in Sana’a, Yemen.
It’s a large world out there. I spent time trekking in Nepal and walking about the streets of Karachi & Islamabad (Pakistan) as well. Ogh, weeks in Vienna, and Zurich and ALL of England & the Hills n Dales of Yorkshire & Scotland. Yes, overnight stays in cold castles are fun, as are dark, cold cabins in Armenia & Azerbaijan. A week or two in Cairo & Alexandria are fun too. Ogh, did I mention Turkey? And the wonderful buffets & grilled mackeral sandwiches ?


----------



## Maggie3fan

Maro2Bear said:


> Yes. It is good to get a passport and travel. Most of my travels have been to the Caribbean, Europe, Russia and it’s former territories and parts of the Middle East and Africa. Some on holiday, longer stays for work. Like....who can say they have visited or lived in Baku or Kyiv or Tbilisi for months on end! As well as a month or two in Sana’a, Yemen.
> It’s a large world out there. I spent time trekking in Nepal and walking about the streets of Karachi & Islamabad (Pakistan) as well. Ogh, weeks in Vienna, and Zurich and ALL of England & the Hills n Dales of Yorkshire & Scotland. Yes, overnight stays in cold castles are fun, as are dark, cold cabins in Armenia & Azerbaijan. A week or two in Cairo & Alexandria are fun too. Ogh, did I mention Turkey? And the wonderful buffets & grilled mackeral sandwiches ?


In 1976 my gonna be second ex-husband worked for a cargo airline that flew out of Alameda Naval Air Station, (Calif). We flew every freakin where for free. Might have gotten slightly cold. And it was loud and uncomfortable, did I say free? We stayed in Europe for about 6 months. Amsterdam, yep, so much fun, and the 'pomfritz' handed out in waxed paper cones with mayo was wonderful. All the old castles. I liked Holland and Belgium the best. Denmark next. London was surprisingly fun, and I walked Abby Lane. Too kewl!!!
It's too bad I've gotten so old so quickly, I really had a very different mindset and lifestyle and a lot of actual fun.Then in my 50's and 60's I drove truck over the road. I got to go places and see and do things that I would not have ever been able to do, see or experience. I got 1 day off for every 7 I worked. So I would stay out for 7 weeks, the 5th 6th and 7th week on the East Coast where I made 5 more cents a mile for every load I picked up and delivered east of the Mississippi and for my time off I'd request a load to wherever, New Orleans. Georgia...Didn't matter, my DM would get me a load to wherever I wanted. I was a kind of a prima donna, and a very good truck driver.?


----------



## Maggie3fan

ZEROPILOT said:


> Maybe that's why so many of us are so comfortable calling people friends and knowing we'll likely never meet.


We used to have a very active member named Tortuga Mike. He and I were friends, like you and I are friends. His wifey was a model, now in Roller Derby, they are bikers. They live in Texass. Tortuga and I have a third friend who started a turtle conservancy in San Benito Texass. So I'm thinkin it was about 5 years ago, Yvonne might remember, I took off with a big noisy bird and my cat who kept trying to eat the bird, and beat feet for Texass. Or actually hot rodded there. I love a road trip. Spent a week there, and Mike and 'Cretia were there as well. I also have a very close friend in Arizona. I went to his house, met him and his wife stayed for a day I think then they rode motorcycles from Arizona here to my house in Corvallis. SO don't ever think that you won't ever meet me. I love a road trip!


----------



## ZEROPILOT

maggie3fan said:


> We used to have a very active member named Tortuga Mike. He and I were friends, like you and I are friends. His wifey was a model, now in Roller Derby, they are bikers. They live in Texass. Tortuga and I have a third friend who started a turtle conservancy in San Benito Texass. So I'm thinkin it was about 5 years ago, Yvonne might remember, I took off with a big noisy bird and my cat who kept trying to eat the bird, and beat feet for Texass. Or actually hot rodded there. I love a road trip. Spent a week there, and Mike and 'Cretia were there as well. I also have a very close friend in Arizona. I went to his house, met him and his wife stayed for a day I think then they rode motorcycles from Arizona here to my house in Corvallis. SO don't ever think that you won't ever meet me. I love a road trip!
> View attachment 303268


So do I
But I'm not riding a motorcycle to the West coast.
Even for you.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

@maggie3fan are these the caps you need?
1988 to 1990 IROC Z28


----------



## Maggie3fan

ZEROPILOT said:


> @maggie3fan are these the caps you need?
> 1988 to 1990 IROC Z28


oh my!


ZEROPILOT said:


> @maggie3fan are these the caps you need?
> 1988 to 1990 IROC Z28


Oh yes! Gosh, that's them!


----------



## Maggie3fan

ZEROPILOT said:


> So do I
> But I'm not riding a motorcycle to the West coast.
> Even for you.


What a super fun ride tho! So easy, out the 10, across the states then up the 5 and here! Bring your wife and I'll bbq


----------



## ZEROPILOT

maggie3fan said:


> oh my!
> 
> Oh yes! Gosh, that's them!


I'll tell Santa.
I hear he comes in August this year.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

maggie3fan said:


> What a super fun ride tho! So easy, out the 10, across the states then up the 5 and here! Bring your wife and I'll bbq


It takes 8+ hours just to get out of Florida.


----------



## Cathie G

Blackdog1714 said:


> I was a hermit before the COVID-19 so social distancing was SO EASY!


Me too. I can't say I don't enjoy shopping but I time it for when hardly anyone is out and about. And I always sterilize my cart.


----------



## Cathie G

ZEROPILOT said:


> Maybe that's why so many of us are so comfortable calling people friends and knowing we'll likely never meet.


Yep.


----------



## Cathie G

Pastel Tortie said:


> I didn't think they'd go barefoot necessarily, but after @Maro2Bear's comment about foot baths at public swimming places when he was younger... I was curious if perhaps there was another risk factor in there somewhere.


I think it was for athletes feet. Also after gym and a shower we had to jump on a device like a weight scale. It would powder our feet.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Cathie G said:


> Yep.


Although I must say that the maybe a dozen members that a have met have all been equally wonderful in person.


----------



## Cathie G

ZEROPILOT said:


> Although I must say that the maybe a dozen members that a have met have all been equally wonderful in person.


That makes sense. I guess there could be an occasional troll now and then but there is so many people here trying to help their tortoise they don't matter.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

I never actually met DANIEL from that fake tortoise rescue down in Dade county.
I'm sure he would've ruined that record


----------



## Suey

All schools set to open beginning of September hopefully. my two grandsons haven’t been to school for quite a while now. We’re lucky where we live next to countryside and not overcrowded. We’re hearing on the news that covid 19 is spiking up again in built up areas Leicester has been put back into lockdown a couple of weeks ago and now other places might be doing the same. People are not adhering to social distancing and have been flocking to beaches, you can understand in a way as people have been in lockdown a long time and we’ve bee having really good weather here, high 20s and sometimes reaching low/ middle 30s which we don’t get very much. Lovely tortoise weather, what a difference to them when they can go outside. Think we can get everything in shops and supermarkets now but have to wear masks and queue everywhere, so nothing is the same, never thought it would come to this. We have a touring caravan and have been away twice now for a few days, on the sites they’ve introduced a wrist band method where everyone has a wrist band there are three pegs on the walls outside the ladies and gents , you hang your band on one of the pegs but if all three pegs have one on you have to wait for someone to come out before you go in. Only three allowed in at one time for toilets and showers. How are things going where you are ?


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Broward county Florida is still mumbling about reopening schools.
Even though their administrative complex, records and retirement buildings are closed due to COVID-19 outbreaks


----------



## ZEROPILOT

maggie3fan said:


> oh my!
> 
> Oh yes! Gosh, that's them!


----------



## Pastel Tortie

At my local Publix, the paper towel section has been rather sparse since late June. Back then I had wondered if there was excess buying and stocking up going on because the fiscal years for Florida's state government and school districts end June 30. It hasn't seemed to remedy itself, though.


----------



## Cathie G

Suey said:


> All schools set to open beginning of September hopefully. my two grandsons haven’t been to school for quite a while now. We’re lucky where we live next to countryside and not overcrowded. We’re hearing on the news that covid 19 is spiking up again in built up areas Leicester has been put back into lockdown a couple of weeks ago and now other places might be doing the same. People are not adhering to social distancing and have been flocking to beaches, you can understand in a way as people have been in lockdown a long time and we’ve bee having really good weather here, high 20s and sometimes reaching low/ middle 30s which we don’t get very much. Lovely tortoise weather, what a difference to them when they can go outside. Think we can get everything in shops and supermarkets now but have to wear masks and queue everywhere, so nothing is the same, never thought it would come to this. We have a touring caravan and have been away twice now for a few days, on the sites they’ve introduced a wrist band method where everyone has a wrist band there are three pegs on the walls outside the ladies and gents , you hang your band on one of the pegs but if all three pegs have one on you have to wait for someone to come out before you go in. Only three allowed in at one time for toilets and showers. How are things going where you are ?


We still have shortages and every store is out of alcohol (isphoral) and necessary cleaning products. Otherwise everything else is pretty much stocked. Got plenty of food and drinks nothing to clean with in other words.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Paper products are plentiful here.
Still no Chlorox wipes.
Alcohol can be found if you look closely and often.
My "stash" is only running low because I've been sharing stuff.


----------



## Maggie3fan

Look how pretty they are!!! IROC...*I*nternational *R*ace *o*f *C*hampions-Z and look at the hole in my wheel that should have those expensive small emblems


when I start this car it's like Superman jumping into the phone booth I become "Little Suzie Badass


----------



## Golden Greek Tortoise 567

ZEROPILOT said:


> Paper products are plentiful here.
> Still no Chlorox wipes.
> Alcohol can be found if you look closely and often.
> My "stash" is only running low because I've been sharing stuff.


Clorox wipes for me are also nowhere. Always taken right before I get there, there‘s some other companies making wipes but I find they aren’t quite effective as Clorox. Better then nothing at least.


----------



## Cathie G

Golden Greek Tortoise 567 said:


> Clorox wipes for me are also nowhere. Always taken right before I get there, there‘s some other companies making wipes but I find they aren’t quite effective as Clorox. Better then nothing at least.


Dawn dishwashing liquid doesn't get stocked along with scrubbing bubbles. Paper towels and some toilet papers in my favorite store Kroger's. But for some reason I can usually find them at Walmart.


----------



## Golden Greek Tortoise 567

Cathie G said:


> Dawn dishwashing liquid doesn't get stocked along with scrubbing bubbles. Paper towels and some toilet papers in my favorite store Kroger's. But for some reason I can usually find them at Walmart.


I usually get that stuff at Costco. It’s cheaper and there’s more of it.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

Cathie G said:


> Dawn dishwashing liquid doesn't get stocked along with scrubbing bubbles. Paper towels and some toilet papers in my favorite store Kroger's. But for some reason I can usually find them at Walmart.


Dawn is great.
It's easily the best dish soap.


----------



## ZEROPILOT

So, I went to get a haircut this morning.
I was taking my wife to a fancy place for lunch since it was her birthday and I looked like an extra from some old Western movie.
It had been a long time since I'd gotten a hair cut and sadly 3 of the 4 places I go to here in town have shut down over COVID-19. As in no furniture inside, gone.
The 4th spot was still there. An elderly Jamaican barber with an astoundingly great memory. He immediately said "#3 with a beard trim!" Like I was just there last week.
Finding a classic scissors cut barber shop is nearly impossible here. But this guy does wonders with electric clippers and a razor! So much care and detail...
I tipped him so well, I imagine he'll remember me for next time as well.
The shops are devastated.
Businesses everywhere are closed that I hadn't noticed.
Whatever next stimulus plan that is to come is already just way too late.


----------



## Pastel Tortie

ZEROPILOT said:


> So, I went to get a haircut this morning.
> I was taking my wife to a fancy place for lunch since it was her birthday and I looked like an extra from some old Western movie.
> It had been a long time since I'd gotten a hair cut and sadly 3 of the 4 places I go to here in town have shut down over COVID-19. As in no furniture inside, gone.
> The 4th spot was still there. An elderly Jamaican barber with an astoundingly great memory. He immediately said "#3 with a beard trim!" Like I was just there last week.
> Finding a classic scissors cut barber shop is nearly impossible here. But this guy does wonders with electric clippers and a razor! So much care and detail...
> I tipped him so well, I imagine he'll remember me for next time as well.
> The shops are devastated.
> Businesses everywhere are closed that I hadn't noticed.
> Whatever next stimulus plan that is to come is already just way too late.


Some decided to retire after May, rather than deal with the hassle of the new COVID requirements and procedures. So even the places that remain open may have fewer people there who cut hair.


----------



## Pastel Tortie

Publix removed all traces of one way aisles and directional signage a while back. It was around the time college students came back for the fall semester.


----------



## Blackdog1714

ZEROPILOT said:


> So, I went to get a haircut this morning.
> I was taking my wife to a fancy place for lunch since it was her birthday and I looked like an extra from some old Western movie.
> It had been a long time since I'd gotten a hair cut and sadly 3 of the 4 places I go to here in town have shut down over COVID-19. As in no furniture inside, gone.
> The 4th spot was still there. An elderly Jamaican barber with an astoundingly great memory. He immediately said "#3 with a beard trim!" Like I was just there last week.
> Finding a classic scissors cut barber shop is nearly impossible here. But this guy does wonders with electric clippers and a razor! So much care and detail...
> I tipped him so well, I imagine he'll remember me for next time as well.
> The shops are devastated.
> Businesses everywhere are closed that I hadn't noticed.
> Whatever next stimulus plan that is to come is already just way too late.


My barbershop- Charlie Jones Barbershop in lakeside is still their. About 7 years ago Charlie took on a younger barber-Matt. Two years ago Charlie passed away and his family respected his wishes giving the shop to Matt! Not sure that still happened today so I figured I would pass it on! Straight razoring lives on!


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## Suey

Hi here in the north west of England where we are things seem to be getting bad again with the Covid . Only this morning my 9yr old grandson and his class / year have been sent home to isolate for 2 weeks. The first wave we were lucky around our area, only the odd one or two we heard about had it. On the whole in UK things are getting bad again . Just listening to the news now and looks like we’re in for more restrictions. At the moment we have to wear masks in all shops, we can only meet up with 6 people inside or out. Where there are a lot more cases in other areas they are not allowed to visit any houses. All pubs now have to shut at 10 pm every where.


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## Gijoux

Suey said:


> Hi here in the north west of England where we are things seem to be getting bad again with the Covid . Only this morning my 9yr old grandson and his class / year have been sent home to isolate for 2 weeks. The first wave we were lucky around our area, only the odd one or two we heard about had it. On the whole in UK things are getting bad again . Just listening to the news now and looks like we’re in for more restrictions. At the moment we have to wear masks in all shops, we can only meet up with 6 people inside or out. Where there are a lot more cases in other areas they are not allowed to visit any houses. All pubs now have to shut at 10 pm every where.



It is now the "Cold and Flu Season" of course there will be more illness and it will be called COVID 19.


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## queen koopa

Suey said:


> Hi here in the north west of England where we are things seem to be getting bad again with the Covid . Only this morning my 9yr old grandson and his class / year have been sent home to isolate for 2 weeks. The first wave we were lucky around our area, only the odd one or two we heard about had it. On the whole in UK things are getting bad again . Just listening to the news now and looks like we’re in for more restrictions. At the moment we have to wear masks in all shops, we can only meet up with 6 people inside or out. Where there are a lot more cases in other areas they are not allowed to visit any houses. All pubs now have to shut at 10 pm every where.


Pubs have to close at 10pm every night? Least there are still pubs open!! Theres hope! Many state’s here closed all our bars. I’m actually quite surprised how easy Americans let our bars be closed down! ??


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## Suey

Oh breaking news here now is that the pubs in Scotland still open but can’t sell alcohol for 2 weeks, don’t think they will have many through the door ?


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## Srmcclure

Suey said:


> Oh breaking news here now is that the pubs in Scotland still open but can’t sell alcohol for 2 weeks, don’t think they will have many through the door ?


So they can sell Shirley Temples? Lol


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## Maggie3fan

ZEROPILOT said:


> Dawn is great.
> It's easily the best dish soap.


Do not wash any car with Dawn. It is so good it takes off the wax coat


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## Lokkje

maggie3fan said:


> Do not wash any car with Dawn. It is so good it takes off the wax coat


Ouch!


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## ZEROPILOT

maggie3fan said:


> Do not wash any car with Dawn. It is so good it takes off the wax coat


True.
And all road grime, grease and oil.
I use it before I paint my vehicles. Before sanding


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## Maggie3fan

ZEROPILOT said:


> True.
> And all road grime, grease and oil.
> I use it before I paint my vehicles. Before sanding


Yeah, it's good stuff. I ran out of Gunk for my engine, so I degreased it with Dawn. And I'm so glad I did, every Low Rider in the San Joaquin Valley wanted to check out my car. It was so much fun talking cars with them. They are knowledgeable, polite and most were younger than my car. One guy told me where to get a new seat, and the step plate. I know it's dumb, but I felt kinda honored that they show so much respect for a 30 year old car


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## Suey

Just had to look up what Shirley temples meant ?? haven’t heard of that before, so yes looks like cocktails all round.


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## Srmcclure

Suey said:


> Just had to look up what Shirley temples meant ?? haven’t heard of that before, so yes looks like cocktails all round.


Hahaha its really good if you ever want to try it lol


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## Cathie G

ZEROPILOT said:


> Dawn is great.
> It's easily the best dish soap.


Dawn also gets rid of drain flies. Most people call them knats. And is a pretty good degreaser for the drains too.


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## Cathie G

ZEROPILOT said:


> So, I went to get a haircut this morning.
> I was taking my wife to a fancy place for lunch since it was her birthday and I looked like an extra from some old Western movie.
> It had been a long time since I'd gotten a hair cut and sadly 3 of the 4 places I go to here in town have shut down over COVID-19. As in no furniture inside, gone.
> The 4th spot was still there. An elderly Jamaican barber with an astoundingly great memory. He immediately said "#3 with a beard trim!" Like I was just there last week.
> Finding a classic scissors cut barber shop is nearly impossible here. But this guy does wonders with electric clippers and a razor! So much care and detail...
> I tipped him so well, I imagine he'll remember me for next time as well.
> The shops are devastated.
> Businesses everywhere are closed that I hadn't noticed.
> Whatever next stimulus plan that is to come is already just way too late.


I usually cut my own hair with 2 or 3 whacks because I don't want to take the time to stop. Now if I want to go to the only barbershop I will use, I have to make an appointment. They do a great job on a woman's hair too. I haven't even wanted to try to cut my hair myself since this all started. I'm wearing a big long ponytail and it helps hold my homemade mask in place. With a little bow sooo...no haircut for me yet.


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## Blackdog1714

Suey said:


> Just had to look up what Shirley temples meant ?? haven’t heard of that before, so yes looks like cocktails all round.


I am having adult Shirley temple cocktails this week


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## Srmcclure

Blackdog1714 said:


> I am having adult Shirley temple cocktails this week


Those are good too ?


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## ZEROPILOT

Maybe I'm getting out too much now.
I went to Hooters for lunch. And there where so many customers in there that I left.
The grocery store was also very busy with no one paying attention to the directional arrows.
It looks like we've gone from too much to too little.


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## Blackdog1714

ZEROPILOT said:


> Maybe I'm getting out too much now.
> I went to Hooters for lunch. And there where so many customers in there that I left.


Maybe 20 years ago I would eat in. Now it’s to go always too noisy for me


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## ZEROPILOT

Blackdog1714 said:


> Maybe 20 years ago I would eat in. Now it’s to go always too noisy for me


The wings kind of steam themselves in the box on the way home. Leaving them anything but crispy.
I'd rather pass.
Food that's HORRIBLE for you should at least taste good enough to justify it.


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## Blackdog1714

ZEROPILOT said:


> The wings kind of steam themselves in the box on the way home. Leaving them anything but crispy.
> I'd rather pass.
> Food that's HORRIBLE for you should at least taste good enough to justify it.


Maybe I drive a wee bit quicker home then ? They are still crispy, only a 5 minute drive away


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