# new idea for heat mat...



## chadk (Jan 5, 2010)

What do you think about these instead of pig blankets?

80 bucks. Costco return policy!! Sounds very durable and water resistent. Perfect for a tort. Just need a way to manage temps. Not sure how hot it gets, but i'd imagine it would be warm enough for a tort. They also have 3 packs of smaller ones intended for stairs, and huge ones intendended for walkways...

http://www.costco.com/Browse/Produc...=0&whse=BC&topnav=&prodid=11315966&lang=en-US


The HeatTrakÃ‚Â® Door mat is an electrically heated mat designed to prevent snow and ice accumulation around your front door. The mat is made of an electrically operated heating element sandwiched between two protective surfaces of non-slip rubber, making it as durable as automobile tires and allowing it to endure harsh wear. The heated mat plugs into any standard 120V outlet generating heat to melt snow at a rate of 2Ã¢â‚¬Â per hour. The HeatTrakÃ‚Â® mat is charcoal gray and has a ribbed carpet surface providing your home with the look of a stylish high-end welcome mat. Turn the mat on before or after a snow fall and watch the mat melt snow on contact! The HeatTrakÃ‚Â® Doormat is not only durable enough to endure the harshest of winterÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s elements, but now with its newly designed detachable plug, the door mat makes a perfect addition to your house all year round!


----------



## Candy (Jan 5, 2010)

Look and sounds O.K. to me. I guess until you buy and try it though you won't know how hot it actually gets. Costco's the best place to shop though.


----------



## dmmj (Jan 6, 2010)

since it was designed for snow melting and not animals,I would of course be a little wary, but it would be interesting to see how hot it gets and such, interesting idea.


----------



## Yvonne G (Jan 6, 2010)

Yes, but for that price you could buy a pig blanket that was made for animals.


----------



## GBtortoises (Jan 6, 2010)

I doubt that it gets warm enough to produce any effective heat. It's designed to melt snow, not produce warmth.


----------



## chadk (Jan 6, 2010)

LOL. How do you suppose it melts snow? 

Personally I think is sounds more rugged and safe than a pig blanket. And now it would be more accessible since anyone can get it through costco. And with costco's return policy, there is no worry if it breaks or just doesn't work how you want it...


----------



## Maggie Cummings (Jan 6, 2010)

I don't understand your thinking on this Chad. Safe??? More rugged??? Pig blankets are made to use with animals, how much more safe can you get??? Do I really want to pay for a hot sidewalk or a product made to use with animals??? Bob's had the same pig blanket on a thermostat for 3 years. It shows no wear and is safe for use on animals. It is very durable made of hard rubber and I know for a fact my sister has had numerous ones for over 10 years. There is nothing that is more rugged made to withstand a nightly beating from a 100 pound Sulcata. So here we have a safe product, made for use with animals comes with a thermostat (costs extra) and I can order it delivered to my door I don't have to drive thru sleet freezing rain ice and snow to the Costco that is miles away from me. I don't have to buy a membership to Osborn Industries to buy a pig blanket. To add to what I already said I like that Bob's is shaped like a triangle so it fits right into the corner which is how larger Sulcata like to sleep. I just don't think you can beat an Stansfield's pig blanket...I realize that you don't yet have any experience with a larger tortoise but every night they stick their face into the same corner and dig for about 20 minutes... what can be more rugged then to be able to withstand that abuse? I know that Bob's sleeping box made out of 3/4 inch plywood is starting to come apart, yet his pig blanket doesn't show a scratch...nah...you just don't have the experience yet Chad to see the power a large Sulcata has...these mats can withstand the power of a big Sulcata, can you say the same about your hot sidewalk???


----------



## chadk (Jan 6, 2010)

Coscto delivers too


----------



## dmmj (Jan 6, 2010)

Maybe chad owns costco stock?


----------



## chadk (Jan 6, 2010)

No, but with 7 kids and a small zoo\farm - I should!!


----------



## Maggie Cummings (Jan 6, 2010)

This is what I am talking about...






















and just for laughs...


----------



## chadk (Jan 6, 2010)

From what I can tell, it looks like the kane mats are abou ~25 bucks per square foot. These mats are ~13 per square foot. But the costco size of 2x3ft for $80 is probably your only option at that low price. I looked up the companies website and they do offer custom sizes. I sent them an email asking about use with livestock and tortoises - specifically, what the options are for controling it. They do offer t-stats, but they are not proportional. If you could hook one up to a cheap rehostat or a proportional t-stat, that would be great. I'll let you know what they say.

They also have holes in them for fastening them down to the floor, so that would be handy. And i like the surface that is durable and cleanable, but not slippery.


----------



## GBtortoises (Jan 6, 2010)

"LOL. How do you suppose it melts snow?"

Snow begins melting at anywhere between 45-50 degrees. 

Is that warm enough for a tortoise?

Looks like a flimsy doormat too me.


----------



## chadk (Jan 6, 2010)

OK, so by default (no control source), they heat to about 35 degrees above ambient temps. So with a heat control source, it sounds very reasonable.


----------



## Maggie Cummings (Jan 6, 2010)

Well, you just keep up with your research, mine is from experience. And, I don't have a cheap rehostat, I use an expensive control so I feel better about the heat control being safe. I certainly wouldn't hook up a cheap reostat and expect it to safely monitor the heat control for an animal who will spend much of his time on the mat.
I don't understand why you would want to buy and use something that it's not intended for especially since it's involving animals that I am hoping you care for. Bob's shed is quite a distance from my house so I wouldn't want to use something that's cheap and not intended for use with live animals. So now I have it hooked up and I am sleeping soundly only to be awaken by the sirens of a fire truck and see that Bob's shed is on fire and both Bob and Queenie have bought the farm. I care too much for my animals to try and save a few pennies on something that has the potential to hurt kill or maim them. I feel alright about spending the few extra bucks on their equipment, so you just go ahead and try to save a few pennies and possibly endanger the life of your animals. 
I am sure that Osborn Industries will come back and tell you that pig blankets are called that or a farrow pad because that is the intended use. For use with a mother pig and her babies, hence the name "farrow pad". But it is still intended for use with animals, not as a hot sidewalk. So I think we have come to the point where I will agree to disagree. You save your pennies, I don't mind at all spending the extra bucks on my animals...


----------



## chadk (Jan 6, 2010)

Wow. Who said it was a fire hazard? It is made to melt snow and be walked on all winter. Very durable. The rehostat suggestion is just one simple option for controling the temp. Because it is not expensive does not mean it is dangerous. It is just a basic light dimmer. I use them for my snake heating pads just fine. But you can also buy a proportional t-stat so you can set a temp and keep it it there. In some cases, you would need to use one over the other. But neither is a fire hazard 

I'm just thinking outside the box. Guess who first came up with the idea of using a pig blanket for torts? I bet the old timers said "no way, i've been doing it this way and I'm not changing it! Besides, pigs are NOT tortoises!!" 

Anyway, no need to get all worked up and make assumptions about my care of my animals just for discussing an idea that may or may not pan out to be a good one.



GBtortoises said:


> "LOL. How do you suppose it melts snow?"
> 
> Snow begins melting at anywhere between 45-50 degrees.



Where'd you learn that factoid?


----------



## -EJ (Jan 6, 2010)

That mat looks like it is perfect for tortoises. It is made to be walked on... Kane heat mats were no... it was made to get wet... Kane heat mats were noe. I have to wonder about the temperature but a rheostat should take care of that worry. 2'x3' is a pretty big area.

I'll probably check it out. Thanks.


----------



## Yvonne G (Jan 6, 2010)

Just to be clear: Kane is one brand name and Stansfield is another. Two separate mats made by two separate companies...Kane Mfg. Co. and Osborne Industries.


----------



## chadk (Jan 6, 2010)

Thanks EJ... and you even spelled 'rheostat' correctly


----------



## -EJ (Jan 6, 2010)

Both have the caution not to submerge in water.

Both are made for warming bedded animals. 

They were not made to withstand the traffic of wet boots or shoes.



emysemys said:


> Just to be clear: Kane is one brand name and Stansfield is another. Two separate mats made by two separate companies...Kane Mfg. Co. and Osborne Industries.


----------



## GBtortoises (Jan 6, 2010)

GBtortoises Wrote: 
"LOL. How do you suppose it melts snow?"

Snow begins melting at anywhere between 45-50 degrees.

Where'd you learn that factoid? 

From living and working in the snowbelt my whole life.


----------



## Candy (Jan 6, 2010)

Chad I think it's a very good idea to try it. It looks like a strong sturdy product to me and Costco does not sell crap. In fact they sell a lot of their products where shipping is encluded in price and the great thing about them is their return policy even of internet products if you're not happy just bring it back to the store and they will not only refund the cost of the item they will refund (if you paid it) shipping costs. That's a well run company.  I would love to know how it works for you and your tortoises when you get it please let us know. Who knows after this the company might even advertise them for pigs and tortoises.


----------



## Nay (Jan 6, 2010)

Do people use these under bedding in a tort table?(Either the pig blanket or the hot sidewalk mat?? Or are we talking for outside in a pretty bare space, like what Maggie's pics show? I would imagine that is how Bob likes it? or do you add stuff on top of that, Maggie? And wow what a mouth on that guy! Doe he ever try to bite it?and on that note what would happen to those if they did?
Na


----------



## chadk (Jan 6, 2010)

I did an experiment with my tort where I put my finger right up to it's mouth while eating. I really wanted to know if he'd bite and I'd rather find out with my fingers than with my kids... No dice. He knew the difference between fingers and food. So I tried something else. I put a soft finger sized branch in with a clump of grass I was hand feeding. Wanted to see if it would break it or just leave a nice bite mark. It didn't even make a mark actually. Just felt something different as it was chompin the weeds and grass and stopped. Of course, not all torts are the same, and I'm sure there are some that would be happy to take a nice bite out of your hand if you let it. So your mileage may vary


----------



## Maggie Cummings (Jan 6, 2010)

No there is nothing on top of the mat, and I 'stand' corrected it is the Stansfield mat that I have. To my knowledge Bob has never tried to bite his, but then I don't spend the night with him...
I'm not worked up Chad, and didn't mean to insinuate that you don't care for your animals...I thought we were simply in a debate of good versus cheap product.....so I will back out and let you have at it with my apologies


----------



## chadk (Jan 6, 2010)

I understand maggie. No harm no foul. I was just pointing out that price does not always determine quality. I haven't decided if i'll pursue on this year though. I'm pretty happy with how things are working now with my heat lamp and space heater combo. But when I make some changes to the new tort shed for next year, a heat pad of some kind will be in order. So if they still have them, I may just have to try one. If by the end of winter I'm not 100% satisfied, I can simply return it for a full refund. I'll update this post if and when I try it out.


----------



## Yvonne G (Jan 6, 2010)

And on another clarifying note: The Stansfield farrowing pad (pig blanket) is manufactured to withstand a mama pig and her babies dancing around on it, with pee and poop. Now, if any of you have ever seen a mama pig, she weighs a bit more than Daddy does when he scrapes off his boots on the heated "welcome" mat.

http://www.osborne-ind.com/petsub/heatpad/heat_pads2.htm


----------



## Candy (Jan 6, 2010)

Well I've got to admit Yvonne you were right at the cost it's about the same. Thanks for posting it I bookmarked it.


----------



## chadk (Jan 6, 2010)

The cost is $40 difference for the same sized mat. Not a huge difference. 

But a few other items I noted if interest in comparing them...

They heat about the same. That's good to know.

Osborne only offers 1 year warranty vs the 2yr from the one I listed. (and costco makes it a non-issue for any number of years...)

Osborne says for 'small animals'

Osborne does not have a build in GFI like the one I listed. 

Osbone is not water proof, but water resistent.

It also says this about the osborne pads:

Always keep your heat pad clean and dry for longest
product life, best performance, and safe operation. Avoid
the use of bedding materials, which retain heat, absorb
water and urine, or may support a flame if the power cord is
accidentally damaged by the animals.

and this

WARNING
Do not allow bedding, manure, or debris to
accumulate on the heat pad. Do not cover with
any flammable material. Any covering causes the
heat pad to become too warm for the animal, is a
fuel source for fire, and reduces its useful life.
Always keep it clean and dry for best service



So the other pad I listed is designed for larger (human) usage it seems. And is designed for handle water and things covering it better. It is designed to be outdoors all winter, where the osborne pad must be kept indoors in dry conditions.

Anyway, I know they are great pads. Just pointing out that there may be other pads out there that could be as good or even better in some cases. More choices is a good thing...


----------



## Madkins007 (Jan 6, 2010)

It looks fine to me other than the worrying detail that it does not list temps or how it controls them. I presume it is an internal thermostat so it does not just run at full blast at all times, but the top end heat is the other question. (Come on- 2" of snow an hour does not take much heat.)

Most internal thermostat gardening cables get to 75F, and most pipe cables only get to about 45-50F.

Another option to look at would be something like FlexWatt heating tape, from places like Big Apple Herp. (http://www.bigappleherp.com/Flex-Watt-Heat-Tape) The 11" wide is $3.89/foot so 6' would only be about $24. Of course, you need some additions and a good thermostat, but it is still a cost-effective option. FlexWatt works best if you cover about 60% of the habitat floor with it, and it is waterproof if you insulate the connections.


----------



## chadk (Jan 6, 2010)

yes, for smaller applications, flexwatt is awesome. Just not for outdoor 30-100lb torts.

And on the companies site I looked up, it does list the temps. Same range (a few degrees more) as the osbone 'pig blanket' things. And you have the same heat control options as the others as well (rheostat or t-stat).


----------



## Yvonne G (Jan 6, 2010)

If I had lots of money, I'd tear down all my tortoise sheds and put up new ones with the heat coils embedded in the flooring. Dream on...


----------



## Candy (Jan 6, 2010)

I was thinking the same thing all throughout this thread Yvonne! Costco sells those too. At least if we're talking about the same thing Costco shows it going underneath tile so the floor is warm and then you could just spray it off with a hose and not have to worry at all about a mess. 

Here they are, awesome 

http://www.costco.com/Browse/Produc...Price|1||P_SignDesc1&lang=en-US&Sp=C&topnav=#


----------



## Yvonne G (Jan 6, 2010)

I was reading the FAQ's on their web site and I had another idea about it: Its made of rubber and the sulcatas really dig at night before they settle down. It does have a GFI, and shuts off automatically if it senses a power drain, however, it might shut off during the night after the tortoise has dug a hole in it.

My thought would be that it might be ok for smaller or younger sulcatas, but not for big ones.

http://www.heattrak.com/info_page.php?id=4&FAQs


----------



## -EJ (Jan 6, 2010)

...and how much is a 2' x 3' Stanfield mat?

Not quite the same ware pattern. I suspect a 200lb man with work boots would exert more pounds per square inch than a 300 lb nursing pig.



emysemys said:


> And on another clarifying note: The Stansfield farrowing pad (pig blanket) is manufactured to withstand a mama pig and her babies dancing around on it, with pee and poop. Now, if any of you have ever seen a mama pig, she weighs a bit more than Daddy does when he scrapes off his boots on the heated "welcome" mat.
> 
> http://www.osborne-ind.com/petsub/heatpad/heat_pads2.htm


----------



## chadk (Jan 6, 2010)

You want it to shut off. It is better to shut off than it is to start a fire or electrocute your tort. That's why you always should have a backup heat plan. So if the heat pad shuts off, the heat lamp or space heater will still keep the temps out of the danger zone until you discover the problem the next day. My torts heat lamp burned out again the other night. But with a heater keeping it at 75 ambient temps, it was fine for that short time until I put the new heat bulb in (I have a few boxes of extras standing by). Next year I'm thinkin of going with a heat pad + CHE. And possibly a day time builb (mvb maybe) on a timer. Would be less expensive to operate I think.


----------



## Maggie Cummings (Jan 6, 2010)

I know that every night Bob sticks his face into the corner on top of his Stanfield pig blanket and he digs and digs for 15 or 20 minutes then after he has his plywood walls and the hard rubber pig blanket arranged to his liking he goes to sleep on it. Generally in the morning he takes his first pee putting out about 3 gallons of urine and urates again on the pig blanket. I don't see any damage to the mat. It is 3 years old, will be 4 this coming May...I swear by it. Bob sleeps on it every night faithfully.
Should the mat ever turn off at night (which it never has) there's a heater keeping the ambient temperature in the shed at 90 degrees give or take some...it's never below 85 degrees


----------



## -EJ (Jan 6, 2010)

I could have sworn this was a thread for a new idea for a heat mat.

I haven't seen anyone step up and say they've used the suggested mat and found that they are bad.

I'm curious as to how this thread turned into a good/bad... better/worse kind of thing. I also wonder how I got sucked into it... my bad.

I'm going to try the mat and I'd suggest anyone who is interested in the thing to do the same. This way we can actually get an idea if it is good or bad by its actual use.


----------



## Yvonne G (Jan 7, 2010)

I believe the OP asked for opinions about what we thought of the pad. My opinion is I don't think the rubber would hold up under the constant digging of a tortoise. I also don't like the idea of it having the carpet-like material on it. It might be comfy for the animal, but it would also be hard to clean poop off of.


----------



## -EJ (Jan 7, 2010)

I guess your opinion is valid but I'd like to try it out or talk to a person who has actually used it to present an informed decision. 

The padding might actually be more comfortable for the animal and the soft rubber would definately conform easier to the substrate which I found is a problem with the hard mats. This is why I think it's a good idea to check it out. 



emysemys said:


> I believe the OP asked for opinions about what we thought of the pad. My opinion is I don't think the rubber would hold up under the constant digging of a tortoise. I also don't like the idea of it having the carpet-like material on it. It might be comfy for the animal, but it would also be hard to clean poop off of.


----------



## Stephanie Logan (Jan 7, 2010)

Well! I have just learned a _very_ important lesson.

*NEVER* pass up a thread just because it looks to be about dry and boring info on pig blankets/heating pads, which may be very pertinent and interesting if you have a Sulcata or a pig, I suppose...but not really worth venturing into, unless--wait! There are photos...of Bob! Bob trying to bite the camera, Bob's very tired long-suffering sleeping box, Bob having some Mazuri...and I almost missed it!

Maggie, you can't just stick stuff like that into the middle of such a humdrum thread like that! How's the Bob Book coming along?

I am Bob's #1 fan, no matter how many of you claim that title. 

Sorry to go OT, Chad, and I know your Sulcata will definitely appreciate a reliable warm spot to sleep during this ridiculously frigid weather we've been having! Good luck on your search.


----------

