# Would a fox attack a tortoise



## Stephanie Logan (Jun 24, 2010)

So I was just out in my back yard trimming flowers while Taco waded happily in large circles in the grass, and I looked up and saw a fox in my neighbor's back yard, about 10 yards away from me. I told it it better leave my tortoise alone and it walked away, but later before I came in I looked again and it was still there, over by the neighbor's gate (further away than before), and after a short stare-down it turned around and disappeared. It was not the first time we've seen foxes in our neighbor's yard, and one winter day I saw one crossing ours.

So will a fox attack a tortoise? Since tortoises are cold-blooded, are they less likely to attract predators, or does that make no difference? Foxes are not very big, and wouldn't they eat "easy" food like cat and dog food people leave out on the porch? We've had coyotes take cats and dogs here in our neighborhood as well, but I've never seen a coyote and thought they hunted late or early, when Taco is safe inside.

Now I am frightened and paranoid. I can always just keep Taco in her pen near the house, but she SO loves to roam the yard, I hate to revoke that privilege if it's not necessary. There is a chain link fence dividing our yards, and the neighbors are elderly and never outside, whereas we are frequently out in our yard...

So Laura and DAC and the other animal control folks and experts on TFO, what is your opinion? Am I risking my cherished torty's safety by letting her rove around, even though I check on her every 30-60 minutes throughout the day?


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## harris (Jun 24, 2010)

I had a raccoon get into my Spotted turtle pen years ago and it killed and partially ate two of them. I imagine a fox could/would do the same.


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## Laura (Jun 24, 2010)

It could happen I guess. Im not gonna say no and have you let your guard down and god forbid.. 
This time of year, they are lookinf for food to feed the babies.. so they might be more prone to try something they usually wouldnt.. I would think that Tacos food left out, might be more of an attractant, and going after him, would be a second thought..


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## Stephanie Logan (Jun 24, 2010)

I never put Taco's food outside because the ants get into it. 

Taco is 6" SCL but she only weighs 21.7 oz. Looking at her vs the size of the fox makes me doubt that any but a desperately hungry animal would go to the effort of trying to carry her off or digging into her shell in a highly populated yard...I think I'll start being rude to the fox when and if I see it, to let it know it's unwelcome here. I hate to do that as of course I don't mind foxes picking off blackbirds or squirrels...I never let my cats out so they don't become coyote food either (coyote babies and fox babies must eat too, after all), but I am now so torn about letting my princess roam.

Has anyone out there ever had a fox try to eat their tortoises that were not hatchlings? Don't a lot of you let your tortoises roam your yard during the day without worrying too much? It just ruined my summer, the thought of not letting Taco have her freedom when I can just see how much it means to her every day. I just came home from an errand and she was flat out against the wall of her pen trying to climb out (she can't) and giving me that look...how do I explain it to her? Why do I have to care so much for this reptile?


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## Tom (Jun 24, 2010)

Go buy a BB gun and shoot the fox in the butt. Seriously. Its the nicest thing you could do. It will save that animal's life and teach him to fear and stay away from humans and their houses. A wild fox should not be standing its ground and staring down a human. You shouldn't even know if one is there as it should be gone like a ghost as soon as it detects a human anywhere nearby. This fox is VERY desensitized and will likely soon be killed as a nuisance animal or HBC. If you can RE-sensitize it with a little noise and a sting in the butt, you might literally save its life and keep it away from Taco at the same time.

Sounds harsh, might even be illegal (although killing it probably wouldn't be.), but its the best thing for the fox AND you.


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## Stephanie Logan (Jun 24, 2010)

Thanks, Tom. I will sic my sons on the poor thing. They love their air soft rifles and those BBs don't even break the skin, but will sting and bruise, so that's a perfect idea. We have so much desensitized wildlife here in our suburbs, and lots of open space/trails where coyotes and foxes live free and peacefully, but we have started to have trouble with people's dogs being threatened while they're being walked, and there was a huge controversy on whether to kill nuisance animals or haze them to shift the balance a bit.

I do like seeing foxes and coyotes some, but I do not have a problem encouraging them to keep their distance either. My sons will be excited to have a chance to practice their marksmanship, and I doubt any neighbors will see or have problems with it; Brock has been "training" squirrels and birds for years now.


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## Terry Allan Hall (Jun 24, 2010)

Tom is 100% on the nose! A fox, coyote, raccoon, opossom or skunk that doesn't run from people is a problem...either de-sensitized or rabid!

The BB gun idea is an excellent one, and hopefully will work. 

And, yes, a fox will kill and eat a box turtle, so it'll likely kill and eat your tort, as well, if given a chance. 

I'd keep a close eye on your baby, when outside, unless he/she is in a secured/covered enclosure.


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## Angi (Jun 24, 2010)

Where do you live Stephanie. I would love to see foxes. I don't know much about them. We get lots of Coyotes.
The airsoft gun is a great idea and I am sure your boys will enjoy shooting a moving target. I wish I could sensitize the rabbits that way. They love to eat EVERTHING that grows in my yard.


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## pugsandkids (Jun 24, 2010)

I'm with Tom and Terry. We do have foxes, but I only know that because I occasionally see one dash across the road at night. Or I smell them when I'm out at night. Never has one actually been out in the day, or stopped to look at me. 

I hope your boys do well and teach that fox not to hang around there!


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## egyptiandan (Jun 24, 2010)

It does happen Stephanie, but seems to happen much more often in the UK. I can't remember the last time I heard of a fox attack on a tortoise in the states.

Danny


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## Itort (Jun 24, 2010)

Box turtles are on the menu therefore small to medium torts. The airgun idea is great, only thing better is a dog. Firecrackers are also good. This fox is too desensified to humans for it's own good.


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## Kristina (Jun 24, 2010)

I had neighbors once that were feeding the dang foxes. That was all well and good until they dug into my chicken coop and killed off a bunch of $250 each class A Serema chickens... 

My coop was not an easy affair to break into, either. It was 20' wide X 40' long, with a 1/2 acre 7' pen, sunk 2' in the ground, and surrounded by hot wire. 

I agree with Tom also. Sting his little behind. They SHOULD be scared of you, as should a coyote. We have coyote, bear and bobcat around here, and the bears are the biggest problem. They have been known to walk right down the street of my neighborhood. 

I would not leave Taco out unattended. Of course, you could just put her in a box and mail her to me, and I would make sure no foxes got her


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## Madkins007 (Jun 24, 2010)

From a different direction... if you have foxes you probably have other predators- skunks, raccoons, feral dogs and cats, etc. that are more secretive. Most of these will go after easier prey or garbage though,

A good fence around your yard will help, but you may want to think about a little more protection around your pen- someone lays recycled chainlink gates over their pens, securing them with weights or whatever.


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## Stephanie Logan (Jun 24, 2010)

AAAahhh, Kristina! Your true intentions revealed!

Hands off my Taco!

You have a _huge_, diverse Chelonian collection of your own...shame on you for coveting your neighbor's tort!


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## Laura (Jun 24, 2010)

Tom has the right idea.. Id be more worried about the Coyotes then the fox...


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## Kristina (Jun 25, 2010)

Hee hee hee


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## Tom (Jun 26, 2010)

Stephanie Logan said:


> Thanks, Tom. I will sic my sons on the poor thing. They love their air soft rifles and those BBs don't even break the skin, but will sting and bruise, so that's a perfect idea. We have so much desensitized wildlife here in our suburbs, and lots of open space/trails where coyotes and foxes live free and peacefully, but we have started to have trouble with people's dogs being threatened while they're being walked, and there was a huge controversy on whether to kill nuisance animals or haze them to shift the balance a bit.
> 
> I do like seeing foxes and coyotes some, but I do not have a problem encouraging them to keep their distance either. My sons will be excited to have a chance to practice their marksmanship, and I doubt any neighbors will see or have problems with it; Brock has been "training" squirrels and birds for years now.



Whew! What a relief. I was afraid everyone would be upset and think I was suggesting cruelty to animals or something like that. I'm not a fan of torturing animals, but I AM a fan of making WILD animals fear humans and human areas. Animals who lose this natural fear die. Plain and simple.

Tell your sons to be very careful and only take carefully aimed butt shots on a still animal. You don't want to injure an eye or anything. Paintball markers work really well for this too and have the added benefit of the paint TASTES terrible. They run off into the woods and as they try to clean the "paint" off their butt it tastes awful. Even more reason to stay away from human habitation.


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## kimber_lee_314 (Jun 26, 2010)

I have opposums, skunks, raccoons, and coyotes in my very urban neighborhood. I never see them during the day - just at dusk and dawn, and in the night. The opposums hang out with my cats and will even come running with them when I shake their dry food! The raccoons aren't even remotely afraid of me. I spray them with water, they jump over the fence, then come right back. I have a six foot fence all around my yard, but that doesn't keep anyone but the coyotes out. Every night I go around and make sure all my critters are locked up in their houses. The raccoon shows his contempt by pooping in the tortoise's water almost every night! So gross! Keep your shelled friends locked up at night for sure!


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## ChiKat (Jun 26, 2010)

Ugh we have foxes in my neighborhood too.
I'm afraid for my little chihuahua  I know foxes go after cats and my pup is smaller than a cat!

We had a stupid raccoon that would climb onto our second-story deck and eat the bird seed. Wasn't scared of people- I would open the door to scare it away and it would just stare at me  Haven't seen it this summer though, thank goodness.


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## Stephanie Logan (Jun 26, 2010)

Yeah, Tom, I've told Anthony and Leslie to just go out to the back fence frequently to make an appearance. I've gone back there and talked loudly and sternly at all the bushy areas poor Mr. Fox may be hiding in; I also told the boys just to fire their guns near the "tail end" as I'm sure that would scare the fox. There are also dogs in the yards on either side of my back yard neighbor, so that should help. I haven't seen the fox again but have gotten much more conservative about how much free time Miss Taco gets to patrol the perimeter, and I go out to check her more often, too. The Princess Bean is not amused, but she is safe and sound.


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