# Baby Sulcata SQUEAKING!



## JasonandMareena

I have two baby sulcata tortoises (one named chomper and the other named nug). Lately nug has been squeaking more frequently. There has been no bubbles at all yet (I know about RNS). Is this normal? Should i continue bathing him? i had a baby die on me recently and it squeaked as well. I love my baby very much and am a very concerned father.


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## JasonandMareena

I have two baby sulcata tortoises (one named chomper and the other named nug). Lately nug has been squeaking more frequently. There has been no bubbles at all yet (I know about RNS). Is this normal? Should i continue bathing him? i had a baby die on me recently and it squeaked as well. I love my baby very much and am a very concerned father.


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## russian/sulcata/tortoise

what are your cage temps(heat spot,cool side,night time)? whats the cage humidity?


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## christinaland128

Can we see a pic of your tort?


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## Yvonne G

Squeaking is not normal for Sulcatas. Seems like Redfooted tortoises are pretty vocal, but not sulcatas. Since sulcatas don't do well in pairs, I suggest you separate them. Treat the squeaky on as if he's sick, and warm up his habitat overall to about 85F degrees. Make sure he has a nice shady spot to get away from the light. Soak him in warm water every day for about 15 minutes. The squeaks should go away, but if they don't, take him under a very bright light and have a look up his nose to see if there's something stuck up there.


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## Tom

Move the non-squeaker to new quarters and leave the squeaker where he is to reduce stress.

Tortoises should not be kept in pairs. It is very stressful, and chronic stress can hamper the immune system.

We need to know your temps and what equipment you are using to maintain them day and night. Respiratory infections can often be stopped simply by raising the temperatures. Never let this tortoise get below 85 day or night (but still dark at night), and make sure it has a basking area around 100 degrees for at least 13 hours a day.

Here are some set up tips:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/how-to-raise-a-healthy-sulcata-or-leopard-version-2-0.79895/
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/for-those-who-have-a-young-sulcata.76744/
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/beginner-mistakes.45180/


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## JasonandMareena

Ok everyone I just read everyone's posts and I separated the two tortoises when I bought them I bought them from a breeder and Bought them together. he says that he raises baby sulcatas, greeks and golden greeks all the time and everything that he uses to keep them alive is what he is shown me.


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## JasonandMareena

That's the side with the squeaker aka nug


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## JasonandMareena

I am using a 75 watt bulb from zoo Med I am using a digital thermometer that I bought from Walmart which is a Taylor brand and I have a 10.0 UVB bulb


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## JasonandMareena

this is the non squeaker Aka chomper


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## Dizisdalife

There are several things I can see that you might want to change. Others will chime in and point all this out to you. I am interested first in knowing what are you using for night time heat? and how is that temperature regulated?
I think that Yvonne had a great suggestion to put the squeaker in a separate enclosure so that it's environment can be managed differently than than Chomper's. It looks like you have just divided the enclosure, which may reduce the stress.


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## JasonandMareena

what exactly would you change and I am using a zoo Med 75 watt bulb red nocturnal light for reptiles


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## JasonandMareena

i have the digital thermometer that keeps updating temps every 15 to 20 seconds


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## JasonandMareena

thats how i constantly regulate temps


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## JasonandMareena

This is nug from what I can see no moisture on his face


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## phebe121

With the being babys the should have humidity and the pelets i heard are not good to use should be coconut coir so u can keep it mosit to help humidity


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## JasonandMareena

how humid should it be and how do i regulate that? i also put the pellets because i dont want my little guys to eat something they are not supposed to and i heard these are natural and can break down easily in their stomachs if they eat it or if it touches their food. i also will post a picture of some other bedding i have for them i am not sure if it is ok or not. plus i heard from the breeder i got it from that this is exactly what he does and his babies live and grow old. i also heard not to bathe them if they are squeaking because it can change their body temps and that could make them sick as well. I am just really concerned and i am looking for cookie cutter answers ( temps need to be ... during day ... during night, humidity needs to be... and how to regulate, bedding needs to be ... how often do i change it, they need ... amount of water. im sorry if this is long and worried sounding but its because i am worried and i care about these little guys i would hate to lose a baby


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## JasonandMareena

this is the other betting that I have it is the cypress mulch


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## phebe121

I have leopards and the care for them are almost the same i have my cool end at 85 and basking at 98 ,you do need to soak him thats how theh get water just make it nice warm water and make.sure.it doesnt get cool,for humidity if you use coconutcoir and water it everday and cover most of the.tank should keep it up


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## phebe121

JasonandMareena said:


> this is the other betting that I have it is the cypress mulch



That should be fine just you have to misit it when it dries


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## Dizisdalife

JasonandMareena said:


> thats how i constantly regulate temps


Thermometers don't regulate the temperature. They can tell you the temp or what the temps have been, usually a min and a max, over a period of time. A thermostat attached to a heat source is usually required to control the ambient temps.

The reason I ask is that a tortoise needs to be able to regulate it's temperature by moving from warm to cool and back again. This is very important. Usually at night time the temp is allowed to drop to it's lowest level, approximately 80°F and stay there over night. What happens often when there is no control of the temperature is the night time temps are too hot or too cold for the tortoise and problems develop. 

Babies can dehydrate very easily. It is important to have a humid environment for them to prevent this from happening. They can also overheat or get cold very quickly. It's because they are so small. When they get bigger they are better at keeping their heat and they don't dehydrate as fast either.

Keep asking question and read the answers and you will learn a lot about keeping tortoises. There are some really helpful people here.


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## JasonandMareena

well how exactly can i do that can you send me pictures of what you have? and my tort has a home and shade to go under when he needs


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## Zeko

Is it a squeak or more of a grind/chomp sound? The only sounds I've ever heard or seen from a Sulcata is a grinding sound or wheezing/whistle from an RI.

When my Sulcata is hungry (usually near the end of the bath), it will start grinding its beak and making chomping sounds.

What I'm trying to say is, when, how and what it sounds like is the mort important thing to figure out. Watching them for behaviour clues will often tell you exactly what is wrong, just need to learn to watch. Whether being bullied, lethargic from temperatures, or any other issue, they all leave signs for us to observe.

Good luck!


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## JasonandMareena

it squeaks usually at night and it sounds more like a mouse


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## Yvonne G

I say this with respect, so please don't be offended - but it's quite obvious from your responses that you have not read the links we gave you. In those links, it tells you that sulcata eggs hatch around the monsoon season and the ground is wet and there is much grass growing. As babies, they don't live in a desert environment, like what your pellets are providing. This just MAY be why the baby is squeaking. He needs moisture - a moist substrate, and moist air to breathe (a covered enclosure).

Please go to the Sulcata section and read the pinned threads at the top of the section. It goes into great detail as to how you should be caring for your babies.


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## Zeko

JasonandMareena said:


> it squeaks usually at night and it sounds more like a mouse



This sounds more like his nails on the sides of his home. Maybe he is trying to get out because it is too cold/warm/etc.

You really do need to make sure your care is perfect. And then, watch and listen to what he is trying to tell you.

No one can help this little guy, other than yourself.


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## JasonandMareena

i am giving him a soak and he just squeaked again >< what do i do what am i doing wrong


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## russian/sulcata/tortoise

JasonandMareena said:


> i am giving him a soak and he just squeaked again >< what do i do what am i doing wrong


did you read the care sheets? did you replace the substrate?


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## JasonandMareena

yes i read them and i have the cypress mulch im just so very confussed about what to do.
the breeder i got my babies from has a 60 watt flood lamp like 2 inches away with pellets and no water and his grow up fine


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## JasonandMareena

now bubbles are coming out of his nose  help me please


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## JasonandMareena

i am putting the mulch on top of the pellets is that ok?


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## Zeko

JasonandMareena said:


> now bubbles are coming out of his nose  help me please



There you go, you got your answer. He likely has a respiratory infection (RI). Your temps got too low, likely at night time.

You need to fix your setup NOW, bump temps up to 85*F lowest and likely go see a vet. 

I am sure people with more experience on RI's will chip in soon. But you can't wait to fix the temps.


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## Zeko

JasonandMareena said:


> i am putting the mulch on top of the pellets is that ok?



No. You need to stop doing things "your way" and follow the links and advice that has been posted in here.

Your baby likely has an RI now with your "blowing bubbles" comment and you are going to end up with a dead baby.

Our way is the right way. It's been tried, tested and proven with thousands and thousands of babies. One of your babies is already dead. This should give you a hint that time is not on your side, nor is the care you are currently giving.


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## JasonandMareena

i never let them go under 80 and it only happens in the water
can i get a picture of what you have?


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## Zeko

JasonandMareena said:


> i never let them go under 80 and it only happens in the water
> can i get a picture of what you have?



Only blowing bubble in water? They drink through their nose, so this happens sometimes.

Regardless, as we have said countless times. Read the link to Tom's "how to raise a healthy baby" thread, and FOLLOW IT.


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## JasonandMareena

im not disobeying the stuff there i am trying to follow it but i would like pictures to accompany this 
how many babies have used this method? i just want information i dont want to do anything "my way" i want THEE way to do it


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## Yvonne G

JasonandMareena said:


> i am putting the mulch on top of the pellets is that ok?



No. You need to moisten the mulch and if you get the pellets wet they grow mold.


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## Yvonne G

JasonandMareena said:


> now bubbles are coming out of his nose  help me please




Oh man...we've been trying to help you. But it sounds like you're not taking our advice.


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## Yvonne G

Here ya go. Pictures:

http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/suggestion-for-setting-up-a-baby-habitat.105903/


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## Zeko

JasonandMareena said:


> im not disobeying the stuff there i am trying to follow it but i would like pictures to accompany this
> how many babies have used this method? i just want information i dont want to do anything "my way" i want THEE way to do it



@Tom is the one who started the guide on here. I can't speak to the exact number, but I know between his and other board members, it's likely in the thousands of hatchlings.

I personally have followed his method (or my own take on it) with great success. I can happily post pictures, but I think you need to simply read, and learn.


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## Yvonne G

Quite a few people who breed tortoises are still following the old school method. And I'm quite sure that when you go to buy one of their babies, they're not going to say, "Oh, by the way, 35 of my babies died last year." And they don't keep them all, so they don't know how harmful keeping them dry as babies was to them or how many died after they were sold. Please take our word for it. We just didn't pull this method out of a hat. Tom did experiments on baby sulcatas and shared the results with us here. If you search for them, it will be eye opening for you.


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## Zeko

Yvonne G said:


> Quite a few people who breed tortoises are still following the old school method. And I'm quite sure that when you go to buy one of their babies, they're not going to say, "Oh, by the way, 35 of my babies died last year." And they don't keep them all, so they don't know how harmful keeping them dry as babies was to them or how many died after they were sold. Please take our word for it. We just didn't pull this method out of a hat. Tom did experiments on baby sulcatas and shared the results with us here. If you search for them, it will be eye opening for you.




And it's not even so much an experiment anymore. If you check through posts here, you will see that the healthy smooth ones are the ones raised following Tom's guide. The dead, dieing of disfigured ones are the ones doing their own thing.

Do you want a tortoise that, if it lives, looks like Egypt pyramids and has health issues? What you do now will answer that question.


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## JasonandMareena

im sorry if it seems i am not listening i am its just im hearing so many different things i dont know exactly what to do who to trust i wanted pics i got them. i just want healthy babies and i hear ceramic heater moist and humid i dont know how to make all these things happen where do i buy this stuff. i am willing to do whatever its just hard to know what i see so many differnt things


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## Zeko

JasonandMareena said:


> im sorry if it seems i am not listening i am its just im hearing so many different things i dont know exactly what to do who to trust i wanted pics i got them. i just want healthy babies and i hear ceramic heater moist and humid i dont know how to make all these things happen where do i buy this stuff. i am willing to do whatever its just hard to know what i see so many differnt things




It's not hard. It's simple. Follow the guide, or do your own thing. But don't waste our time giving you answers, pictures and articles, if you are not going to follow them. There is other members and posts that could use these experienced members time and effort, to help their babies.

You came here, likely because what you are doing is not working and has resulted in one dead tortoise already.

Not trying to be rude, but you don't see to listen, believe or follow anything we post or link.


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## Yvonne G

Any pet store sells the CHE:

http://www.petco.com/product/5003/Zoo-Med-Repticare-Ceramic-Infrared-Heat-Emitters.aspx

Picture of the CHE is on the box if you look closely.


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## JasonandMareena

what if they are already sick? is there something i can do? the vets where i live have little to no knowledge on torts


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## Yvonne G

That's ok. Just keep asking questions until you understand what we're trying to get across to you. We want your baby to live and be healthy almost as much as you do.


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## JasonandMareena

does the ceramic heater turn on and off as needed? and i will ask questions thank you for helping. what type of houses do you recommend


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## Zeko

JasonandMareena said:


> what if they are already sick? is there something i can do? the vets where i live have little to no knowledge on torts




You will want to do exactly what is in the link, with the added "increase in temperature" up to 85*F or so. And you will also want to do warm soaks in water no less that 85F as well. 

It's hard to save a sick baby, especially if you are doing things wrong. This is why we try to prevent issues from happening, as opposed to fixing them after.


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## JasonandMareena

This is the newest changes hows it lookin


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## JasonandMareena

how many watts should the CHE be?


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## Yvonne G

JasonandMareena said:


> does the ceramic heater turn on and off as needed? and i will ask questions thank you for helping. what type of houses do you recommend



No. If you want it to turn on and off you have to also buy a thermostat to plug it into. But if you only use it at night it would be ok to be on all night because the house gets cool.


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## Yvonne G

I see two things that I question.

1. The light fixture (the bell shaped one) is not a ceramic base fixture. What kind of light is in that fixture? And it's up too high to be doing much good. You need to hang it so it points straight down.

2. What is that blue thing sitting on the screen?

Substrate looks good. Did you moisten it?


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## JasonandMareena

can you show me what thermostat i need? the lights inside are zoo med heat lights 75 watts and blue thing is a uvb bulb can i just get a list of everything i need and where to get it and how it works i dont want to lose any babies


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## leopard777

dont forget to put a big water dish for them to drink


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## russian/sulcata/tortoise

is your substrate dry? it needs to be moist just add some water to it and mix together.


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## JasonandMareena

its not dry i moistened it  i will put in a bowl i just dont want them to jump in it and then dry off and get cold and sick


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## russian/sulcata/tortoise

JasonandMareena said:


> its not dry i moistened it  i will put in a bowl i just dont want them to jump in it and then dry off and get cold and sick


if the enclosure is the right temps they wont get sick.


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## Yvonne G

I don't use the CHE, so I can't help you on the thermostat question. But I think you're using the wrong lights. I'm not sure about the UV light, but if it's one of those compact fluorescent bulbs, they're bad for baby tortoise's eyes, and also, the screen doesn't allow the UVB rays to penetrate through. I'll get a picture of what light I use in a minute.


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## JasonandMareena

i know im just about to leave the house for college i dont want it to get too hot >< whats the highest heat they can be at comfortably?


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## leopard777

if you maintain the heat day/night , it wont get cold , by the way whats your ambient room temperature ?


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## JasonandMareena

This is the bulb I use its 75 watt day time zoo med


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## Yvonne G

Ok. This is the last bulb I bought, and the cheapest one I could find. The Flukers bulb at the top of the page:

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_n...&rh=n:2619533011,k:flukers+mercury+vapor+bulb

You put it on a timer to be on 12-14 hours a day. It has to be mounted in a fixture with a ceramic base, and hanging straight down. It provides UVB along with heat, so you only need the one fixture. Then you can get a CHE to keep the habitat warm at night.


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## JasonandMareena

this is where i bought it from 
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00025YW8E/?tag=exoticpetnetw-20


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## Zeko

Send us a picture of the bottom of your lightbulbs. I have a feeling you are using bad ones.

I would mix in some soul into the substrate (no fertilizer, only organic) to help with humidity.

You need to close off more of the top, to keep humidity in.

You need a CHE to keep your nighttime temps above 85*F. 

The list goes on and on and on. And it's all covered in that darn link you won't read or follow.


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## JasonandMareena

i looked at it zeko i just want to know exact ones people are using and im sorry for asking for exactness but i thought everyone was here to help i read and read and i just want to know exact what others use i could accidentally buy a 150 watt CHE and roast them so again please let me ask freely


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## Zeko

JasonandMareena said:


> This is the bulb I use its 75 watt day time zoo med




This bulb is not correct. It does not produce any UVB light. You need a UVB bulb MVB bulb, (such as Power Sun). Or UVB florescent tubes.

You need a CHR on a thermostat, set at 80-85F.


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## Yvonne G

JasonandMareena said:


> this is where i bought it from
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00025YW8E/?tag=exoticpetnetw-20




But this light is only providing heat. And your UVB light is the wrong kind.


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## Zeko

JasonandMareena said:


> i looked at it zeko i just want to know exact ones people are using and im sorry for asking for exactness but i thought everyone was here to help i read and read and i just want to know exact what others use i could accidentally buy a 150 watt CHE and roast them so again please let me ask freely




As others have said, you need a thermostat for the CHE. These, regardless of too much Watt, will keep the temperature at whatever you set it (80-85).


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## JasonandMareena

this is the uvb i got is this wrong ill go change it asap
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00A8RHTYU/?tag=exoticpetnetw-20


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## JasonandMareena

and how do those work do you mind sending me a link to one?


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## Yvonne G

Ok, I'm bowing out now. Time for me to turn off the computer. I hope you get it all straightened out.


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## JasonandMareena

ok good bye yvonne and thanks for all your help


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## Zeko

JasonandMareena said:


> this is the uvb i got is this wrong ill go change it asap
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00A8RHTYU/?tag=exoticpetnetw-20



VERY wrong. Now I know you didn't read the guides. Spiral bulbs damage eyes.

I just told you which two forms of UVB lights are acceptable. Mercury vapour bulbs or uvb florescent tubes.


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## Zeko

Yvonne G said:


> Ok, I'm bowing out now. Time for me to turn off the computer. I hope you get it all straightened out.



Oh god, don't leave me here alone!!!!


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## Zeko

JasonandMareena said:


> and how do those work do you mind sending me a link to one?



http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Power+sun

First link....


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## JasonandMareena

this is a florescent tube


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## JasonandMareena

i have one that is on that same chart! why is it so wrong


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## Zeko

JasonandMareena said:


> i have one that is on that same chart! why is it so wrong




The chart is showing you what the bulbs do.

You need the EXACT one I linked, or UVB florescent tubes. Long ones, not spiral shaped.

The bulb you bought that looks similar does not produce UVB. The other spiral one you linked does produce UVB, but blinds your tortoise.


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## JasonandMareena

Exactly what you're telling me is exactly what I have it is a UVB fluorescent tube its not spiraled it it is a long tube shaped so why is this one not correct and I did not link a spiralled one I linked this tube


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## phebe121

That on will make them blind just cuz it not spirel doesnt mean it not the same product just a diffrent shap i just bought this mercury vapor bulb it does heat and uvb


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## JasonandMareena

and that works on your sulacata baby? i dont know why this one is so bad if its made by the same company that does power sun aka zoo med and its in their charts that show it helps with uvb can someone enlighten me on that?


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## phebe121

That one will work on your babys maybe dont need as high of watt but that one you have will make your torts blind.iv seen them where.the.torts eyes are swollen shut its not ment for torts


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## JasonandMareena

ok so what kind of wattage do you recommend? and thanks for answering i now know i just like to double check everything


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## Zeko

JasonandMareena said:


> Exactly what you're telling me is exactly what I have it is a UVB fluorescent tube its not spiraled it it is a long tube shaped so why is this one not correct and I did not link a spiralled one I linked this tube



Wrong bulb, as I said. This is spiralled, bent, whatever word you want to use. Any version of these can cause blindness. I'm not going to link the articles that say so, you either take my word or you don't.

UVB Florescent tubes are 18" long or longer and perfectly straight. You need to make sure they are for reptiles, as standard Florescent tubes do not produce UVB.


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## phebe121

What size tank it is


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## JasonandMareena

40 gall


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## phebe121

I would go with the 160 watt then


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## Zeko

phebe121 said:


> I would go with the 160 watt then



I use 160 watts as well for all my CHE's, regardless of tank size.

The important part is to have it on a Thermostat, that way your temps stay exactly where it should. Even a smaller 60 watt could cook a tortoise if it is not controlled.


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## phebe121

Ok but im off to bed 7 comes to fast good night


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## JasonandMareena

good night and thanks for the info i just need to find a good thermostat i cant seem to find one


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## Zeko

JasonandMareena said:


> good night and thanks for the info i just need to find a good thermostat i cant seem to find one



And a new UVB bulb, and a CHE.... You're killing me man!


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## JasonandMareena

i know im going to get those as well relax since the last time i gave him a bath no squeaking and no bubbles so i can happily say he is getting better
would you like to see a pic?


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## JasonandMareena

This is nug


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## Zeko

JasonandMareena said:


> i know im going to get those as well relax since the last time i gave him a bath no squeaking and no bubbles so i can happily say he is getting better
> would you like to see a pic?



It usually takes a long time to show symptoms. If squeaking and bubbles are from an RI, it takes even longer for it to be cured. Anything you do to improve his care, will also help him recover. 

You may still want to see a vet, or ask in another post regarding "Sulcata and Possible RI" to get more feedback from those that have gone through it.


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## JasonandMareena

the vets in my area have been known to just euthanize because they dont want to see the torts suffer and you cant take them home once they know they may be sick yes i said MAYBE.the vets in my area have no knowledge on torts whatsoever


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## JasonandMareena

do you mind sending me a picture of your thermostat so i know which one i can get or what its supposed to look like please


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## Zeko

JasonandMareena said:


> the vets in my area have been known to just euthanize because they dont want to see the torts suffer and you cant take them home once they know they may be sick yes i said MAYBE.the vets in my area have no knowledge on torts whatsoever




Then I would recommend posting a new thread. I know there are a few vets that frequent these forums, and may be able to give some better advice.


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## JasonandMareena

ill get on that soon


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## Zeko

JasonandMareena said:


> do you mind sending me a picture of your thermostat so i know which one i can get or what its supposed to look like please



These are the ones I use. They are reliable and work reasonably well. I am sure there are many others you can pick from.

http://www.qcsupply.com/digital-temperature-controller-for-heat-mat.html


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## russian/sulcata/tortoise

where are you located? is it possible for you to make an outdoor enclosure in the summer? sulcatas grow very fast! lol


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## JasonandMareena

Zeko said:


> These are the ones I use. They are reliable and work reasonably well. I am sure there are many others you can pick from.
> 
> http://www.qcsupply.com/digital-temperature-controller-for-heat-mat.html



ok so what i would do is plug in the CHE into the heater and then the prong thing on the ground of my tank and thats what will regulate or how exactly im confussed on how it works since i have never used one before


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## Zeko

russian/sulcata/tortoise said:


> where are you located? is it possible for you to make an outdoor enclosure in the summer? sulcatas grow very fast! lol



He has already lost one hatchling, and may be losing this one. We gotta get this one doing better in his indoor enclosure first!

Let's work on his current one in this thread, and he can start a new one for outdoors once he gets there. A lot of info in here for him to digest and put into place.


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## JasonandMareena

russian/sulcata/tortoise said:


> where are you located? is it possible for you to make an outdoor enclosure in the summer? sulcatas grow very fast! lol



i am in the high desert of california and yes i can and will


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## russian/sulcata/tortoise

Zeko said:


> He has already lost one hatchling, and may be losing this one. We gotta get this one doing better in his indoor enclosure first!
> 
> Let's work on his current one in this thread, and he can start a new one for outdoors once he gets there. A lot of info in here for him to digest and put into place.


okay! I'm sorry


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## Zeko

JasonandMareena said:


> ok so what i would do is plug in the CHE into the heater and then the prong thing on the ground of my tank and thats what will regulate or how exactly im confussed on how it works since i have never used one before



Pretty much. You'll want to have the probe roughly at tortoise head height. I use small picture hanging stick on hooks and zip tie the probe to that. 

The thermostat will turn on and off the CHE to the temperature you set, usually within 3*F fluctuations, which is fine.


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## Zeko

russian/sulcata/tortoise said:


> okay! I'm sorry



Don't be sorry! You are always a great help!

You can help him with his indoor one too. You, just like I, have been through all this personally. So feel free to give any tips or advice. 

We just don't want to make this any harder or more confusing for him!


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## JasonandMareena

so if i plug a light for say into that it will turn on and off the light as it reaches that temp as well?


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## russian/sulcata/tortoise

Jason don't feel discouraged, literally EVERY new tortoise owner makes mistakes.


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## Zeko

JasonandMareena said:


> so if i plug a light for say into that it will turn on and off the light as it reaches that temp as well?



Yes in theory, but no you would not want to do that.

For your 40 gallon setup, you should have the following:

One UVB light. Either the MVB or Florescent tube. This light's main function is to provide UVB rays and visible light, not heat. This should be on a timer for 12-14 hours.

One CHE. This is to provide the ambient temperature of 80-85*F. This is to be turned on and ran 24 hours a day, with the thermostat controlling it.


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## JasonandMareena

Zeko said:


> Yes and no.
> 
> For your 40 gallon setup, you should have the following:
> 
> One light only. Either the MVB or Florescent tube. This light's main function is to provide UVB rays and visible light, not heat. This should be on a timer for 12-14 hours.
> 
> One CHE. This is to provide the ambient temperature of 80-85*F. This is to be turned on and ran 24 hours a day, with the thermostat controlling it.



alright i will do what you say...... how hot can my babies get? i dont want to roast them. i have heard of people making basking spots to as high as 140F and that seems like much. i dont go over 94 and never under 85


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## JasonandMareena

will this work for a thermostat 
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0047KKOMI/?tag=exoticpetnetw-20


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## JasonandMareena

and is this an adequate CHE
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001F9CV7K/?tag=exoticpetnetw-20


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## russian/sulcata/tortoise

JasonandMareena said:


> alright i will do what you say...... how hot can my babies get? i dont want to roast them. i have heard of people making basking spots to as high as 140F and that seems like much. i dont go over 94 and never under 85


lol i think 140 would cook them!


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## JasonandMareena

russian/sulcata/tortoise said:


> lol i think 140 would cook them!



RIGHT!!!!! i got worried lol


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## Zeko

JasonandMareena said:


> alright i will do what you say...... how hot can my babies get? i dont want to roast them. i have heard of people making basking spots to as high as 140F and that seems like much. i dont go over 94 and never under 85



My own personal setup for my Sulcata is:

A large glass tank, with the top mostly sealed.

One side has a CHE, set at 90*F. I use this for his basking spot. Directly under it, temperature reach 100*F. This also make a temperature gradient from the 100*F basking spot, out to 85*F on the cool side.

I then have two 18" desert UVB florescent tubes, running the length of the tank.

This takes care of the heat, UVB and temperature gradient.


You then need to concern yourself with humidity. You need 80%+ to produce a smooth, healthy Sulcata. 

You can do this through sealing your tank with tin foil or other methods. This will help trap in the humidity when you spray the tank and substrate.

Or you can run a humidifier, with a partially open tank. I prefer this method as fresh air is always entering the tank, and the humidifier keeps the humidity at 80%+. More work, more cost, but in my opinion produces smoother tortoises.


Lots of info to take in, but it's here to read any time you like. And just so you know that I do have experience, here is my latest Sulcata hatchling at 120 grams, and still very smooth and healthy.


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## Zeko

JasonandMareena said:


> will this work for a thermostat
> http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0047KKOMI/?tag=exoticpetnetw-20



Yes. Very similar to what I use.


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## Zeko

JasonandMareena said:


> and is this an adequate CHE
> http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001F9CV7K/?tag=exoticpetnetw-20



That should work for your current setup. I'd recommend grabbing a 160 watt version, as that will translate to a bigger enclosure that you will quickly need.


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## JasonandMareena

Zeko said:


> My own personal setup for my Sulcata is:
> 
> A large glass tank, with the top mostly sealed.
> 
> One side has a CHE, set at 90 I use this for his basking spot. Directly under it, temperature reach 100*F. This also make a temperature gradient from the 100*F basking spot, out to 85*F on the cool side.
> 
> I then have two 18" desert UVB florescent tubes, running the length of the tank.
> 
> This takes care of the heat, UVB and temperature gradient.
> 
> 
> You then need to concern yourself with humidity. You need 80%+ to produce a smooth, healthy Sulcata.
> 
> You can do this through sealing your tank with tin foil or other methods. This will help trap in the humidity when you spray the tank and substrate.
> 
> Or you can run a humidifier, with a partially open tank. I prefer this method as fresh air is always entering the tank, and the humidifier keeps the humidity at 80%+. More work, more cost, but in my opinion produces smoother tortoises.
> 
> 
> Lots of info to take in, but it's here to read any time you like. And just so you know that I do have experience, here is my latest Sulcata hatchling at 120 grams, and still very smooth and healthy.
> 
> View attachment 109243



how exactly do i messaure humidity? i just sort of spray the mulch until it looks damp and if you set the thermometer at 90*F it can go up to 100*F?


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## russian/sulcata/tortoise

here is an example that shows why humidity and soaking is very important! with out humidity a tortoise can start pyramiding, this is the rising and deformity of the tortoises shell. first picture is a sulcata raised in high humidity and the second is a sulcata raised in low humidity.


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## Zeko

JasonandMareena said:


> how exactly do i messaure humidity? i just sort of spray the mulch until it looks damp and if you set the thermometer at 90*F it can go up to 100*F?



The temperature thermostat simply turns on and off the CHE to try and keep temperatures at your desired setting. It does its best. Which is why you need a good temperature gun to check the temperatures in and around the enclosure and adjust the thermostat to reach your desired setup.



They make digital humidity readers. Do not by the cheap ones that look like a dial. 

Pet stores sell them, but I grab mine from home improvement stores. Usually used to measure outside humidity, they are water resistant and small. Easy to put inside the enclosure and move around to check humidity in all areas.


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## JasonandMareena

wow this is getting more pricey than i thought :/


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## JasonandMareena

would this work?
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00101JIFG/?tag=exoticpetnetw-20


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## Zeko

JasonandMareena said:


> would this work?
> http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00101JIFG/?tag=exoticpetnetw-20




If you want to use this over the fluorescent tubes, then yes. However, this produces heat, which for a small 40 gal tank may be hard to regulate.

This is why I choose to use UVB florescent tube fixtures instead for my smaller tank setups. Very little heat is produced.

The larger the enclosure, the more I would be inclined to use the MVB bulbs, as the huge amount of heat they produce can spread, as opposed to cook.


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## Zeko

JasonandMareena said:


> wow this is getting more pricey than i thought :/



Yes. Tortoises are considered an exotic pet and require unique care.

Just wait till they get bigger and you need a HUGE setup.


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## JasonandMareena

is yawning normal for them? Thanks for answering all my questions


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## russian/sulcata/tortoise

JasonandMareena said:


> is yawning normal for them? Thanks for answering all my questions


yes it is  so cute


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## Zeko

JasonandMareena said:


> is yawning normal for them? Thanks for answering all my questions



No problem. Hope it helps.


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## russian/sulcata/tortoise

what have you been feeding your tort?


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## JasonandMareena

mostly romaine lettuce and spring time mix lettuce and zoo med natural grassland tort food but he doesnt like the grassland stuff much :/ do you have any recomondations? i heard alfalfa is good if i grow it


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## russian/sulcata/tortoise

sulcatas are grass eaters around 80% of there diet should be grass and nontoxic weeds. do you have a lawn without chemicals where you can get grass from?


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## Zeko

JasonandMareena said:


> mostly romaine lettuce and spring time mix lettuce and zoo med natural grassland tort food but he doesnt like the grassland stuff much :/ do you have any recomondations? i heard alfalfa is good if i grow it



Mazari is a great addition to any diet.


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## JasonandMareena

mazuri?


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## russian/sulcata/tortoise

JasonandMareena said:


> mazuri?


its like grassland tortoise food except better.


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## JasonandMareena

this is not right after feeding isn't this there favorite basking position?


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## russian/sulcata/tortoise

russian/sulcata/tortoise said:


> sulcatas are grass eaters around 80% of there diet should be grass and nontoxic weeds. do you have a lawn without chemicals where you can get grass from?


you never answered my question I'm hurt lol


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## JasonandMareena

im sorry i didnt see that :O no i dont really i have grass out front but my father has put grease and car soap and other things of that nature. i was thinking about growing my own but i live in the desert and that seems to be a bit of a task with dogs and chickens


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## russian/sulcata/tortoise

JasonandMareena said:


> im sorry i didnt see that :O no i dont really i have grass out front but my father has put grease and car soap and other things of that nature. i was thinking about growing my own but i live in the desert and that seems to be a bit of a task with dogs and chickens


yea you can buy some grass seeds at tortoise supply. remember grass is VERY important in there diet. they are a grazing species, there like cows.lol


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## Zeko

JasonandMareena said:


> im sorry i didnt see that :O no i dont really i have grass out front but my father has put grease and car soap and other things of that nature. i was thinking about growing my own but i live in the desert and that seems to be a bit of a task with dogs and chickens



Super easy to grow grass (Wheat grass is best) in a tub inside your house. Any home improvement Florescent tube will work to grow it (The cheap kind).


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## Zeko

russian/sulcata/tortoise said:


> yea you can buy some grass seeds at tortoise supply. remember grass is VERY important in there diet. they are a grazing species, there like cows.lol



They don't call them Lawnmowers for nothing


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## russian/sulcata/tortoise

Zeko said:


> They don't call them Lawnmowers for nothing


yes!!!! Jason when your sulcata is 100 pounds you wont ever need to cut your lawn again!


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## JasonandMareena

im excited to raise them!


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## russian/sulcata/tortoise

yes this is a sulcata!

i got this pic from a sulcata breeders website.


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## JasonandMareena

holy sulcata!


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## russian/sulcata/tortoise

JasonandMareena said:


> holy sulcata!


be prepared for your children to own a monster!


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## JasonandMareena

check out my new profile pic of my precious chomper doing what he does best! <3


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## russian/sulcata/tortoise




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## JasonandMareena

that is too damn big!


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## JasonandMareena

Mario is in for a tough fight this time!


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## russian/sulcata/tortoise

JasonandMareena said:


> that is too damn big!


it is the 3d largest species of tortoise!


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## JasonandMareena

whats the biggest


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## russian/sulcata/tortoise

JasonandMareena said:


> whats the biggest


1Galapagos, 2aldabra, 3sulcata


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## JasonandMareena

do they all get that big!


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## russian/sulcata/tortoise

JasonandMareena said:


> do they all get that big!


sulcatas have different sizes dependent on where in north African where they are from. the pictures i posted are sudanese sulcatas, males can get 250+ pounds! most sulcatas in the US have mixed up genes from the different parts in Africa.


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## JasonandMareena

oh ok i hope mine gets HUGE!


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## russian/sulcata/tortoise

JasonandMareena said:


> oh ok i hope mine gets HUGE!


have big of a space do you have for an enclosure?


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## JasonandMareena

i have 1 acre of land  with 4 doggies 1 pure german shepherd the other 3 are german shepherd/ golden retriever mix


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## russian/sulcata/tortoise

JasonandMareena said:


> i have 1 acre of land  with 4 doggies 1 pure german shepherd the other 3 are german shepherd/ golden retriever mix


make sure you NEVER let your dogs alone with your sulcata! this is a burrowing species that makes 20ft+ long burrows under ground.


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## JasonandMareena

i wont leave them alone but that will be years from now


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## russian/sulcata/tortoise

JasonandMareena said:


> i wont leave them alone but that will be years from now


they can get 30 pound by 3 years old.


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## JasonandMareena

especially the way chomper is eating!


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## leopard777

JasonandMareena said:


> mostly romaine lettuce and spring time mix lettuce and zoo med natural grassland tort food but he doesnt like the grassland stuff much :/ do you have any recomondations? i heard alfalfa is good if i grow it




Alfalfa is high on protein, you might want to grow Timothy hay, have you added the water dish?


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## Tom

Wow. 9 pages of this...

Please go back to page one, post number six, and click those links. Every question you have asked and every explanation of what equipment to use or not use, and how to use it is right there in those links. There is also a link for what and how to feed them. Romaine lettuce is not mentioned any where in there. Do you know how how to click and use the links? Is that the issue? Toward the bottom of that post are some words and numbers that are highlighted in green. When you slide your cursor over them they will highlight and you simply have to click to open the threads that have the info you need to keep this baby alive. One a phone or tablet, you just touch the highlighted green links. Its really easy and will only take a few minutes to read.

Babies are easy to keep if you set them up right, but hey have a very small margin of error if set up incorrectly. A few dry days, or a few cold nights is enough to seal their fate. Your baby does not have time for you to figure this stuff out. Read the info, get the correct heating and lighting equipment, get your temps where they need to be, or you are going to be responsible for killing _two_ baby tortoises.

Excessive yawning is not "cute". It is a sign of a respiratory infection. These are typically caused by temps that are too low, especially at night.

PLEASE READ THOSE THREADS! Preferably _before_ another baby dies.


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## Zeko

It was a full time job last night Tom.


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## JasonandMareena

can anyone help with my baby suclata ?


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## G-stars

What are your 4 temps? Warm side? Cool side? Basking? And night temps? Also what are your humidity levels at?


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## russian/sulcata/tortoise

sound like a respiratory track infection, people answer G stars questions. also picture of the enclosure will help.


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## JasonandMareena

95 basking, 85-80 mid temps, 78 coolest


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## russian/sulcata/tortoise

JasonandMareena said:


> 95 basking, 85-80 mid temps, 78 coolest


whats the humidity level?


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## G-stars

JasonandMareena said:


> 95 basking, 85-80 mid temps, 78 coolest



All of those look good. 
What about your night ambient temps?


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## Zeko

Here is his previous post for back-story:

http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/baby-sulcata-squeaking.107419/

His care was very substandard and may or may not be fixed now. I refereed him to starting a new thread on seeking advice on what to do to correct the RI that his tortoise has, in hopes some members who have gone through it can help.


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## JasonandMareena

i dont know the humidity, i just bought a monitor on amazon should be here soon, what is recomended for his condition? I'm doing everything I can


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## JasonandMareena

They try to eat the forest floor bedding


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## JasonandMareena

Also, Chomper is bobbing its head while sleeping, is this hiccups?


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## Delilah1623

There are very knowledgeable and experienced people here telling you exactly what to do. Do these things. I am not trying to be rude but you have been given plenty of advice and direction on how to save this baby and it is unclear if you have taken any of it. Your way is not working. Please listen to the experienced people and try it their way before it is too late.


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## stinax182

The best thing in this case is to have lower humidity and higher temps until he's better. Forget about the humidity for a bit. 85°f


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## dmmj

Besides a vet visit, the main best way to help your tortoise is warmth. Lnock the temps up about 5 degrees or so, if you don't or can't take to a vet, that will be the best ay to help. Keep an eye out for open mouth breathing, loss of appetite, lethargy, if those pop up, it is prob. getting worse, then a vet visit will be required.


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## JasonandMareena

thanks for not giving me rude comments, I have been listening to everything, but i can not afford the vet visit right now, so im trying my hardest to prevent any sickness. so i need to stop humidity?


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## dmmj

You don't need to stop the humidity, it might help. Just so you know if it is an RI, the loonger you take to treat it, the harder and more exspensive it becomes, I am not hounding you, just spreading some info.


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## ascott

Wow...you have been going round and round huh? LOL....where in the high desert do you live? I live in Apple Valley...


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## ascott

JasonandMareena said:


> can anyone help with my baby suclata ?



Wow...you have been going round and round huh? LOL....where in the high desert do you live? I live in Apple Valley...

What is it you need exact help with?


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## kookoobid

*Mines squeaks when he is in a bath is that normal *


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