# Rats



## bikerchicspain (Mar 13, 2010)

I am moving house sometime this year that has a large patio and im going to be doing a special enclosure for my torts, My question is how do you guys protect your torts against rats when they are outside,? Iam converting an old shed as there indoor enclosure witha cat flap that i can lock at nights, then outdoor they will have different levels with wild plants and a waterfall for bathing and drinking.
I know that where im moving there are rats as it is right next to lemon groves so there are plenty of them around plus its near a river.


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## Stephanie Logan (Mar 13, 2010)

I have read that rats will chew on tort limbs at night. Can you put a net or screen over the door at night to ensure your torts can sleep safely?

That indoor pen sounds like the tort version of Club Med!


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## Yvonne G (Mar 13, 2010)

I asked my vet if second hand rat poison would kill my cats (a cat eats the rat that ingested rat poison) and he said no, that the stomach acids neutralize the rat poison and make it harmless to the cat.

I put out D-Con to kill mice and rats. I put it in safe places that my other animals can't get to it. When I first put them out, the poison in the boxes disappeared within a day or two. Now the poison stays forever, because I've killed off all the mice and rats on my property.

I cut a small hole on the lip of a plastic container that fits over the D-Con box, then place the plastic tub over the poison box. Then I put a heavy brick on top of the plastic container.

I am not a killer. I scoop up spiders and release them outside. I try very hard to live and let live. However, there are certain creatures that could be harmful if allowed to stay on my property, and I've found the only way to deal with them is to kill them. I'm sorry if this offends anyone.


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## Maggie Cummings (Mar 13, 2010)

I use D-con also. I had my son make a nice enclosure to hold my box turtles when I first moved out here but then rats made tunnels thru that to go under my house. I did everything possible to make the rats use another route including digging down and laying chicken wire across underneath. But nothing I did made the rats go away and one day I had to have a guy fix some ductwork under there, and he said there were massive amounts of dead rats under my house. I live outside of town in the country so I finally gave up on the rats and moved the turtle enclosure. It makes sense to kill off some so that others may live. That's just how it works in nature. It does NOT make sense to scoop up spiders and throw them outside...Squash them!!!


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## Tom (Mar 13, 2010)

emysemys said:


> I asked my vet if second hand rat poison would kill my cats (a cat eats the rat that ingested rat poison) and he said no, that the stomach acids neutralize the rat poison and make it harmless to the cat.
> 
> I put out D-Con to kill mice and rats. I put it in safe places that my other animals can't get to it. When I first put them out, the poison in the boxes disappeared within a day or two. Now the poison stays forever, because I've killed off all the mice and rats on my property.
> 
> ...



I've heard vets say this too, but when you bring in an animal that has eaten rat poison or a poisoned animal, they treat it like an emergency. They induce vomiting and start the vitamin K injections immediately. I also know of lots of dogs, cats and meat-eating birds that have died from eating poisoned mice and rats. I don't know how to explain this inconsistency. Maybe there are different kinds of rat poison? They are all supposed to be regulated. I believe the chemical name of the current legal poison is Warfarin. It is supposed to work by preventing the rodents' blood from clotting, so they bleed to death, internally, from every little bump and bruise. It is supposed to only work on rodents, but they give vitamin K, a clotting agent, to any other animal that ingests it too.

Yvonne, I don't want to contradict you, but I have witnessed many rat-poison related animal deaths with my own eyes. I'm glad that it has worked out for you, but I wanted others to hear the other possible side of that coin too.

For bikerchickspain Yvonne, I use a combination of snakes, cats, dogs, traps (placed out of reach) and pellet rifles. On rare occasion, I've had the opportunity to use the old "whack a mole" stick or do the old "lab stomp". None of this is appealing, but the results of letting rodents run rampant un-checked is worse. Rodent control and eradication has been a problem for human kind for our entire history. Rodent control must be the SECOND oldest profession.


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## TortieGal (Mar 13, 2010)

When I had mice getting into the old house we lived in I would set those have a heart traps and relocate the mice, I know you probably think that's nuts but poison is a slow miserable death for any creature. Roachman's way is better it's quick. I do understand you have to do something to get rid of them.


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## Shelly (Mar 13, 2010)

Has anybody ever had a rat harm their torts? I have rats outside, but they have never bothered my torts.


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## Yvonne G (Mar 13, 2010)

Yes, some of the club members have had rats chew on their hibernating tortoises.


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## chairman (Mar 13, 2010)

For a less lethal approach, you can try planting mint, Daffodils, or a couple different varieties of hyacinth around the perimeter. I'm not actually sure if they work, but some insist they do. 
Otherwise, there are always those rat traps that contain strong adhesives. They usually only get one before they need replacement, but at least there's no poison to worry about. Personally, I'd go with the D-con, though.


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## Tom (Mar 13, 2010)

chairman said:


> For a less lethal approach, you can try planting mint, Daffodils, or a couple different varieties of hyacinth around the perimeter. I'm not actually sure if they work, but some insist they do.
> Otherwise, there are always those rat traps that contain strong adhesives. They usually only get one before they need replacement, but at least there's no poison to worry about. Personally, I'd go with the D-con, though.



Mint doesn't work, at least not at my house. Don't know about the other plants. Those glue traps are awful. They struggle for hours and usually get free anyway. If they do stay stuck, then what? You've got to kill them somehow. That takes a pretty hard heart to just walk up and brutally kill a trapped, helpless animal, while they are staring up at you. I don't think most people are going to want to deal with that. I tried those for a very short time and then chucked them and went back to snap traps. If you bait and set them correctly, they are quick and as humane as possible.


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## GBtortoises (Mar 14, 2010)

When you put most brands of rat or mouse poison outdoors or in a building where the rodents have access to the outdoors or a water source you aren't going to kill them. You're only feeding them! The effectiveness of the poison relys on them not being able to get to a water source to drink.

One of my dogs gets rid of any mice for me outdoors. I open the gate to the tortoise yard, he comes running and I just say "get the mouse". He's starts hunting and nosing through the straw to draw them out. As the mice flee I'm standing there waiting for them. Between the two of us we get the job done.

I've personally never seen any evidence that mice have chewed on a tortoise. I don't have many rats around here so they aren't a problem anyway. The reason I don't want them around is the mess they make with feces and urine in the tortoise's shelters.


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## bikerchicspain (Mar 14, 2010)

Roachman you are right i too have seen cats come in after eatinga rat that had been poisoned, working with vets,only on saturday we had a case of a cat that had caught a rat that had ingested poison and its tough and go with the cat, poor thing was in a real bad way.
Anyway back to the problem i am incapable of putting down poison to kill anything i even step over ant trails so that i dont stand on any, thething is Rats are my favourite rodent i think they are so cute. I might get some humane traps and then release them across the fields. I cant put glue down as i have kids and cats.hopefully just having the cats will do the trick,plus the torts will be enclosed at nights. Ive got planned a fantastic enclosure for them. I will keep you posted and send pics when we move and ive built my enclosure. Tort mansion is going to be its name,with waterfalls and slopes etc etc..


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