# Finding Adults



## NathanMorrow6 (Sep 28, 2016)

Hello everyone, I'm 16 and a senior in high school and I'm trying to start up a small turtle and tortoise breeding project throughout school which will hopefully eventually turn into something of a "side business". 

Before I go on, I'm going to school locally, so I'll be home, after college, I'm staying here to find a job in my field, and I'm quite certain that I'll be able to do so. I won't expand my collection further than I can manage, but between my girlfriend and I, I believe we can manage. 

So I'm wondering if anyone knows any good places to look for people selling their group. I could do individual adults, but if possible I would like to avoid the quarantine process and the anxiety behind animals that haven't been together. 

The reason I'm asking is because I'm looking to get a few seasons in of breeding throughout college, and tortoises take awhile to mature, and I wouldn't say turtles are quick doing so. 

My plans are to breed to produce my own groups, so I'd temp sex the hatchlings to produce a group to have in the future, only because I love the idea of producing my breeders. So any help would be great. 

Now, please treat me like a kid who is about to be in college. I know I'm 16, but I think I'm old enough to start looking into things like this. I'm going to start small in my room and backyard, and then I plan on sometime in school moving onto a separate piece of property. I don't plan on the business paying for itself for a long time, so all of these things are just aspirations of mine and I'm willing to fund them. If you have questions about this "plan", feel free to ask and please don't assume that the animals won't be taken care of or I'm overestimating myself. I think that this is the best course of action if I want to build my collection up to a size and standard that will be successful. 

Thanks. 

Ps. Eventually I want to look into making this business a non profit research and captive breeding facility (going to school for biology), but I'm not sure what all goes into that so don't take that too seriously.


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## Yvonne G (Sep 29, 2016)

Good luck in your endeavor, Nathan.


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## juli11 (Sep 29, 2016)

NathanMorrow6 said:


> Hello everyone, I'm 16 and a senior in high school and I'm trying to start up a small turtle and tortoise breeding project throughout school which will hopefully eventually turn into something of a "side business".
> 
> Before I go on, I'm going to school locally, so I'll be home, after college, I'm staying here to find a job in my field, and I'm quite certain that I'll be able to do so. I won't expand my collection further than I can manage, but between my girlfriend and I, I believe we can manage.
> 
> ...



Do you still have tortoise or experience?


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## NathanMorrow6 (Sep 29, 2016)

I have a lone rescued female horsfieldii, and that's all I've worked with.


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## mike taylor (Sep 29, 2016)

You need to talk to Kelly ( @tortadise ) he could tell you a thing or two about what you're getting yourself into . Kelly's is living your dream as I type this . I can tell you it's hard work . I've seeeeent it . Hahahahaha


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## juli11 (Sep 29, 2016)

Okay so if i understood you right than you want to build a breeding colony of tortoises to make a small "business"? 
And you only have experience with A. horsfieldii? 
Which species do you wanna breed? 
You know the coasts? 
The time you need to spend?


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## mike taylor (Sep 29, 2016)

I think that's what he is asking for advice. He wants to start a tortoise rescue for nonprofits. That's what I understood. But he wants to breed and sell some tortoises also . It's totally can be done . But it takes hard work and dedication. Start with what you know . Then study a specific species. Then when ready add another species . I'd say start with the smaller species and go from there . It's not going to happen overnight. It takes years . Unless you have an unlimited cash flow . Your only 16 you have time . My advice start small and slowly add more to your collection. Before you know it your hard work will pay off .


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## Team Gomberg (Sep 29, 2016)

Hi Nathan.

You can find breeding groups for sale through many sources but they usually come with a high price tag! $$$$

Hope you've saved up 

Good luck with your endeavor though.


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## dmmj (Sep 29, 2016)

if you buy established breeding groups it will cost a lot of money. you're young you have a lot of time I would buy individual animals then setup my own breeding group.


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## wellington (Sep 29, 2016)

I second everyone's comments, specially the cost and hard work. Your start up alone, of a breeding group, and equipment needed will set you back a bit. Also, a breeding group needs to either love outside 24/7 or if your in the snowy states, they will need a very large room. If you can't house them properly, your "business" will fail before it even gets started.
If you started with hatchlings, they wouldn't need a large room size enclosure for 2-3 years depending on the species.


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## wellington (Sep 29, 2016)

Oh, and there's not usually breeding colonies for sale, but once in awhile there is. Check out fauna classifieds


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## Neal (Sep 29, 2016)

One critical aspect that separates responsible breeders from the rest, in my opinion, is practical experience raising hatchlings. The care a hatchling receives in the first days/weeks/months will affect the tortoise's long term ability to thrive. The advice I would give to you at this point is start out raising some hatchlings so you gain the experience and understanding of exactly what it takes to raise a tortoise to adulthood. That will set you up for better success with your long-term goals.


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## saginawhxc (Sep 29, 2016)

You guys are all worried about logistics. I'm over here thinking holy crap kid you are 16. Do not get involved in something as heavy duty and long term as this yet. You might feel like you are ready for this, and you may be, but I personally guarantee that at 16 you don't really know what it is that you really want from life yet. 

For the record this is almost word for word the same speech I gave my 17 year old son recently when he got "engaged" to his girlfriend.


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## wellington (Sep 29, 2016)

saginawhxc said:


> You guys are all worried about logistics. I'm over here thinking holy crap kid you are 16. Do not get involved in something as heavy duty and long term as this yet. You might feel like you are ready for this, and you may be, but I personally guarantee that at 16 you don't really know what it is that you really want from life yet.
> 
> For the record this is almost word for word the same speech I gave my 17 year old son recently when he got "engaged" to his girlfriend.


I kinda agree. Except getting engaged at 17 and getting into animals are two very different things. Most animal lovers, are animal lovers for life. Most 17 year olds, heck, 25 and under getting married, well, chances are real good it won't last long and it can be a lot bigger deal then selling a group of tortoises you now don't want.
I'm guessing too, that at 16, this person is still living at home for a couple more years and their parents will have a lot to say about how many they really get.


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## mike taylor (Sep 29, 2016)

Neal said:


> One critical aspect that separates responsible breeders from the rest, in my opinion, is practical experience raising hatchlings. The care a hatchling receives in the first days/weeks/months will affect the tortoise's long term ability to thrive. The advice I would give to you at this point is start out raising some hatchlings so you gain the experience and understanding of exactly what it takes to raise a tortoise to adulthood. That will set you up for better success with your long-term goals.


Now this is sound advice.


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## mike taylor (Sep 29, 2016)

wellington said:


> I kinda agree. Except getting engaged at 17 and getting into animals are two very different things. Most animal lovers, are animal lovers for life. Most 17 year olds, heck, 25 and under getting married, well, chances are real good it won't last long and it can be a lot bigger deal then selling a group of tortoises you now don't want.
> I'm guessing too, that at 16, this person is still living at home for a couple more years and their parents will have a lot to say about how many they really get.


Don't under estimate 17 year olds . I got married at that young age with a baby boy . Now I have three young men . I'm still madly in love with their mother 22 years later. There has been plenty of kids starting their careers early in life . I say if you can live by doing something you truly love . Go for it . A parents job is to teach their children to be honest respectable young men and women. If I see my boys enjoy something. I will spend my last dime make sure their dreams will become a reality. Now with that being said . You as a young 16 year old man . Will need to determine if this is what you really want to do . You'll never have a fancy car . But what you'll get is a life of happiness doing what you love to do . So many people are unhappy chasing money and working at jobs they hate . Very few live the life they dreamt of .


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## mike taylor (Sep 29, 2016)

Can you guess where we are in this picture of us in 1994 last day of school. That summer we found out my son Brandon was coming . So live a life you'll be proud of .No matter who tells you it's impossible.


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## saginawhxc (Sep 29, 2016)

On the flip side. I got married to my high school sweetheart at nineteen, first kid also at nineteen, and started my career at nineteen. I regret every single one of those decisions. 

To be clear I'm glad I have my son, as i love all my kids more than anything, but actually having him at that age and time of ny life was one of the stupidest decisions of my life.

Just don't mind me. I'm just a jaded bitter man. I stand by everything I said, but there is zero reason to listen to me. 

I'll be the first to tell someone to chase their dreams, I just don't think the average 16 year old really knows what they are still going to want out of life ten years down the road. 

Best of luck to you though.


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## Grandpa Turtle 144 (Sep 29, 2016)

Hello Nathan 
I think you have a great idea ! But do a business plan maybe with two females and a male . How much to feed them . What are you going to pay for them ? How many eggs the first year ? Should I keep going ?


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## NathanMorrow6 (Sep 30, 2016)

Alright for some reason I wasn't getting notifications so this got a lot of answers whilst I was gone. 

First off, I'm getting a group of horsfieldii because I think it's a good species to start with. They'll be housed indoors in an 8x4 with some separate enclosures ready, and they'll live outside during the warm months in probably a 10x15 or so. I want to practice the breeding process (hibernation, incubation, etc.), and then get some experience with the hatchlings once they hatch. 

I plan on starting slow with species, but I want to start with cold tolerant species to save room, at at some point purchase a 2-4 thousand dollar metal garage and insulate it and start working with humidity/heat loving species. 

I appreciate everyone saying good luck and things of that nature. 

As for the 16 year old comments, you're right in a way, but at the same time, I respectfully disagree. I am 16, but I'll be in college next year, and I'll be living at home. I'll have money to put into this, and I'll go at a pace that I can control. 

Another thing, this isn't about money. I said it up there, but my goal is to be recognized as a conservation minded business. I am interested in conservation, but I want it to fund itself for the most part once it's established. 

This isn't some all or nothing risk taking project. I'm going to school, I'm going to get a job in a successful and growing field, and this will be my side project. I'll be at this property every day 7 days a week because I'm passionate about it. And then once I retire, it'll be my everyday job.

Anyways, like I said thank you for the positive stuff, and thank you for the criticisms. This isn't all planned out yet, and nothing can be for sure, but I believe that with the right amount of effort and good choices that it's possible. Obviously I can't tell anyone what will or won't happen, and it's all just being hopeful, really. 

If anyone has any thoughts they'd like to share, please do. I think that conservation is a team effort, and although I want to start a large project myself, I want everyone to be a part of it. 

Nathan


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## mike taylor (Sep 30, 2016)

Sounds like you've got a plan . Make it happen. Have faith in yourself.


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## NathanMorrow6 (Sep 30, 2016)

Thank you for the kind words. If anyone is interested, I'll try to keep some posts of the process up including enclosure setup and all that.


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## mike taylor (Sep 30, 2016)

Please do ! That way we can help along the way . Plus see you succeed.


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## MichaelaW (Oct 1, 2016)

Don't underestimate a 16 year old. I say follow your dreams and make it happen. We all start somewhere. Please keep us updated.


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## NathanMorrow6 (Oct 1, 2016)

Thank you very much. Will do.


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## Gillian M (Oct 1, 2016)

Wish you the best of *LUCK* whatever you decide to do. 

And please keep us updated.


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## PJay (Oct 1, 2016)

This sounds like a great endeavour! Good luck to you in college, your career and best of all, your animals!


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## dovelett15 (Oct 1, 2016)

Hello Nathan,

You are a very impressive and articulate young man. You have all the attributes to make your dreams come true.Press on! Wish you the best in all your endeavors!


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## Kapidolo Farms (Oct 1, 2016)

Please read post #1, http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/live-naked-people.126107/

The problem with many adults is looking back. That you are looking forward is good. Nobody wants to have animals in their care die, unless that is an intended purpose. I'd say no matter what you will loose some animals along the way based on poor judgement. If your personal morality can cope with that I'd say move forward and put your best forward looking into the move you seek to take. It sounds like your girlfriend is part of your plan. That, and that alone, is the only thing that raises doubts in my mind. If there is another person as well that will be 'into it' and supportive then that balances out the girlfriend.

I am involved with many things professionally and many others that are not a part of my day to day job. In virtually all these things, the advice of the big players is to have a group of people who be supportive. Some may not be supportive, but they don't constantly drop discouraging crap in your day, those folks are good too. If aside from the 'sky is falling Nellys' here you are personally in contact with someone telling you it's all going to end in ruin, know right now to cut those types out. 

Being pragmatic is important. Being negative is destructive. 

As a someone who at your current age had much support from 'turtle club' meetings (pre internet where arm chair snipers were not so readily interested in shooting down people's dreams) I did move forward along a very topsy turvy path. If, as many very successful people do, this is your path, then listen to the naysayers like Warren Buffett might listen to a young stock analyst. Hear what they say, but listen to why they are saying it.

Maybe in 20 years when my tortoise hating wife makes an ultimatum that I "get rid of all of them!" (she doesn't even use the word tortoise just 'them' ) I'll be able to cal you up and say "hey bring your truck".


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## NathanMorrow6 (Oct 1, 2016)

My girlfriend is slightly part of the plan, and I mentioned that she would help, but that is very much a toss up. As much as I want to involve her, she is less capable of thinking it all out. For her, it's I want to own some turtles, for me, it's a lot more than that. She really loves animals, but it's more of a general thing, and I don't know that she's interested in really doing it, she gave me a very inconclusive response. With that being said, I probably will do it mostly alone, which I'm okay with. But whatever happens is okay. 

As far as support goes, nobody cares about it like I do, so it's sort of just a nod type thing. My parents know I love them, but they don't care to know the scientific names of all of them or have a large collection. Some people think it's cool, but nobody is like "tell me more", you know? As far as people who have a true interest as I do, the guys at the TurtleRoom have been great, and Chris Leone at Garden State Tortoise has been kind as well. I would say that more than anything, Steve Enders and Anthony Pierlioni have really given me a wealth of knowledge as far as how these projects work. They've given me ideas of approach, and explained the decisions I'll have to make. 

I have looked around for turtle and tortoise people, but there's just not much. Being in Upstate NY, there isn't a lot in the way of reptile people. With that being said, I find that there is a lot of great people within the community, especially here on the forum.

Thank you for the insight. Once again, someone brought up something I hadn't thought about. I have some support, and I have no real doubters, just people who simply don't care. But I'm really interested in the animals, and I'm really interested in building an amazing breeding facility, and I have a lot of plans already. So in 20 years, if you need to get rid of "them", let me know. Hopefully by then I'll have a website and social media, so feel free to contact me on there. Thank you. 

Nathan


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## Kapidolo Farms (Oct 2, 2016)

NathanMorrow6 said:


> Some people think it's cool, but nobody is like "tell me more", you know?



A sense of humor is important in any endeavour. Good job.

I have few local friends that just sitting in a bar or burger joint, saying nothing at all, is supportive. That we talk about what we do makes it better. 

This is the $$ part of my FaceBook https://www.facebook.com/KapidoloFarms/

This is the science conservation part https://www.facebook.com/kapidolo/

and my not so cryptic views of the world https://www.facebook.com/william.espenshade.7

Web pages are too much fooling around, maybe later I will rebuild that.


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## cmacusa3 (Oct 3, 2016)

Nathan have you seen this add?

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=594945


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