# Tortoise keeps trying to climb on top of another



## thegrandchicken (Jul 10, 2014)

One of my leopard tortoises keeps trying to climb on top of the other one. The real trouble is, this tortoise doing the climbing is a bit of a runt, and is way too small to do anything, risking hurting himself (by falling off the tortoise's back or something) and the other one. The tortoise being climbed on top of doesn't seem to like it at all - he keeps trying to run away! It's also a bit disturbing because he's incredibly persistent and won't stop bothering the other one, if that makes any sense... he also kind of makes these awful gasping noises (I'm not really sure what it is, but I'm pretty sure it's not because he can't breathe or anything.) 

HELP! Has anyone seen this before? What is he doing?? I feel like this is harassment! I'm worried that he's becoming aggressive, and our home doesn't have space for aggression, especially when he risks hurting others. 

NOTE: I don't know for sure the genders of either tortoise. They are both 3 y/o.


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## sibi (Jul 10, 2014)

Sorry that you're distressed about this. Sometimes one will climb on another if there's not enough room to claim as theirs. If their enclosure is too small of a space for them, try separating them. I wouldn't feel distressed over the one you think is aggressive . This is some behaviors that require some adjustments. Then, there's the issue of sexes. If one is male, and the other female, this may explain the behavior. If the male is making noises, he may just be getting his jollies, so to speak. Has he flashed you yet? I mean, his penis may be visible as he tries to mount the female. I was thinking they are rather young at this point, but depending on their size, it may be normal behavior unless they are both males. In that case, you may need to separate them.


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## Tom (Jul 10, 2014)

You need to separate them. This is either breeding or territoriality. In either case it is not a good way for them to be living and will likely lead to the death of one or the other.

Tortoises should not be housed in pairs, and your is yet another example of why, even with a species that is generally quite peaceful. Here are some threads that might help you:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/how-to-raise-a-healthy-sulcata-or-leopard-version-2-0.79895/
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/pairs.34837/
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/beginner-mistakes.45180/


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## sibi (Jul 10, 2014)

Tom said:


> You need to separate them. This is either breeding or territoriality. In either case it is not a good way for them to be living and will likely lead to the death of one or the other.
> 
> Tortoises should not be housed in pairs, and your is yet another example of why, even with a species that is generally quite peaceful. Here are some threads that might help you:
> http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/how-to-raise-a-healthy-sulcata-or-leopard-version-2-0.79895/
> ...


 
Totally agree with Tom. I should have remembered that Tom is an expert on Leos, and he would know what should be done. Separation is the only solution ay this point. Glad to see Tom respond.


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## Yvonne G (Jul 10, 2014)

Here's a story for you:

I had a 3 yr old, small, bumpy male leopard tortoise and a 25 year old, large, fairly smooth female in the same pen. The female had not been with a male leopard tortoise for several years. She dug a nest, laid eggs and I incubated them, even though I knew they weren't fertile because I had adopted out her partner, male several years ago. Long story short - the eggs hatched. I thought it was a case of retained sperm, but she has laid fertile eggs a couple times a year since then. I finally had to wrap my brain around the fact that this very small, 3 year old male leopard tortoise was sexually mature and even though he was a fourth of her size, he was breeding the female successfully.

If your climbing tortoise is breeding a very young female you are running the risk of her getting egg bound because the fertilized eggs are too big for her to lay. It is best not to allow a young female tortoise to lay eggs until she has reached her full size. It is in your female tortoise's best interest to separate them immediately. And, even if "she" isn't a female, its not good for 'him' to constantly be mounted and shown aggression by the other tortoise.


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## thegrandchicken (Jul 10, 2014)

Thank you for all the quick replies! We got the other tortoise to keep the first company, but I can see that the only thing to do is separate them.

(Also, if anyone else has any additional suggestions or views on this topic, please keep answering... everything helps...)


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## sibi (Jul 10, 2014)

thegrandchicken said:


> Thank you for all the quick replies! We got the other tortoise to keep the first company, but I can see that the only thing to do is separate them.
> 
> (Also, if anyone else has any additional suggestions or views on this topic, please keep answering... everything helps...)


Just remember, like Tom would say, tortoises don't need company. Many species would prefer to be alone, and as such, are not social animals like us humans. Are there any exceptions? Sure, but not with Leos, Russians, or sulcatas.


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## Tom (Jul 10, 2014)

thegrandchicken said:


> Thank you for all the quick replies! We got the other tortoise to keep the first company, but I can see that the only thing to do is separate them.



Many people feel this way. Many people are intentionally misled by sales people looking to make a buck. The truth is that in general they do best alone. Groups can sometimes work, but even that sometimes leads to problems. Pairs are really worse case scenario. Tortoises do not need or want company. They don't get lonely and they don't see other tortoises as "friends". They see them as competitors for the same resources or combatants to be driven out of their territory.


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## Yellow Turtle01 (Jul 11, 2014)

sibi said:


> Sorry that you're distressed about this. Sometimes one will climb on another if there's not enough room to claim as theirs. If their enclosure is too small of a space for them, try separating them. I wouldn't feel distressed over the one you think is aggressive . This is some behaviors that require some adjustments. Then, there's the issue of sexes. If one is male, and the other female, this may explain the behavior. If the male is making noises, he may just be getting his jollies, so to speak. Has he flashed you yet? I mean, his penis may be visible as he tries to mount the female. I was thinking they are rather young at this point, but depending on their size, it may be normal behavior unless they are both males. In that case, you may need to separate them.


I recently found out my russian tort is a male (he lives alone, as a single guy!) and I caught him flashing me while he trying to mount a log... Felt so bad, he was really determined!


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## Yellow Turtle01 (Jul 11, 2014)

thegrandchicken said:


> Thank you for all the quick replies! We got the other tortoise to keep the first company, but I can see that the only thing to do is separate them.
> 
> (Also, if anyone else has any additional suggestions or views on this topic, please keep answering... everything helps...)


Tortoises are not social animals, like a cat or dog might be. They prefer to live alone, and that's really whats best for (both) parties health.


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