# Beginner Mistakes - commentary



## GBtortoises

(Moderator note: I've moved all the commentary off Tom's thread and onto here. To read Tom's thread go here: http://www.tortoiseforum.org/thread-45180.html









Tom-OUTSTANDING! 

In my opinion this document should be the first thing that opens when a new member signs on to TFO. If only we could post this outside of every pet shop in America too!

There is little to nothing that could be added to this "tortoise bill of captive care rights". But I will say that one thing that I find disturbing that takes place most often with beginners, but even with keepers of a few years or more experience is pointed out in #6: They often maintain their tortoises _far too hot night and day_. Along with this comes excessive dryness, dehydration, poor food processing and more.


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## Redstrike

*RE: Beginner Mistakes*

Well done, Tom. Valuable information for beginners and experienced tortoise enthusiasts alike.


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## jackrat

*RE: Beginner Mistakes*

Good stuff,Tom! I see #1 causing problems far too often. What is sometimes called "hatchling failure syndrome" is,many times,nothing more than improper care during the first month after hatching. Please,if you are looking to buy a hatchling,do some homework. Ask questions about what kind of care they are recieving,hatch date,temperature and humidity parameters. If the prospective seller can't give satisfactory answers to these basic questions,I personally would consider going somewhere else.


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## DixieParadise

*RE: Beginner Mistakes*

Wow Tom, great info.


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## pam

*RE: Beginner Mistakes*

 Great info


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## Laura

*RE: Beginner Mistakes*

yep,, ditto,, great info! and I really stress the part of a safe enclosure.. NO free roaming.. We are human and get distraced too easily and one wanders off.. sometimes never to be found... or found by the dog.. :-(.....


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## DesertGrandma

*RE: Beginner Mistakes*

Really good Tom. I am sure this will help many new members. And I agree it should be posted right up front to see.


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## Olive's Mom

*RE: Beginner Mistakes*

as a new tortoise owner, thank you!!!


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## Tom

*RE: Beginner Mistakes*



jackrat said:


> Good stuff,Tom! I see #1 causing problems far too often. What is sometimes called "hatchling failure syndrome" is,many times,nothing more than improper care during the first month after hatching. Please,if you are looking to buy a hatchling,do some homework. Ask questions about what kind of care they are recieving,hatch date,temperature and humidity parameters. If the prospective seller can't give satisfactory answers to these basic questions,I personally would consider going somewhere else.



I totally agree. This is why I made it number one. Due to the way that some species are typically started, like sulcatas on rabbit pellets with no water bowl for example, I think this one is most critical. If too many of the kidney and liver cells are already dead due to chronic dehydration, there is no way to over come that, even if the new keeper does everything "right".


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## terryo

*RE: Beginner Mistakes*

Excellent post Tom.


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## JoesMum

*RE: Beginner Mistakes*

Outstanding thread Tom. Are you able to add in a bit about lighting?


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## Dagashi

*RE: Beginner Mistakes*

This should be a pinned topic for all new tort parents to be.  excellent information. 

I also find that many tort owners who don't do their necessary research on the actual type of tort that they are planning to get and when they fall in love with a sulcata.. more often than not they might not be able to keep the poor darling due to the sheer size of it!


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## yoda3106

*RE: Beginner Mistakes*

You insulted me ;p lol only joking!! Very good thread, along with you and 3 or 4 others on the forum, you have helped me out so much in the past and when I first became a tort owner, I still get my questions now but without you lot, I wouldn't be as clued up as I am now  thankyou tom!! Lucky to have you on here!

Dan and shell

(Henry, Hetty and Fred) our torts!!


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## wellington

*RE: Beginner Mistakes*

Great thread Tom. I too, wish this could be available to all newbies first and foremost. No one probably can tell, but I am a big fan of yours. Like yoda3106, you have helped me a lot. I will be attaching this one to my signature. Thank you again for the great info and always putting in 110% to help others and the torts. If you haven't already thought of it, I think you should be working on a care guide book, even a pamphlet would be good. Just an idea, I know you don't have enough to do. Lol


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## Zamric

*RE: Beginner Mistakes*

Kudos Tom! Yet ANOTHER well written document about Tortoise care with your name on it!


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## Tom

*RE: Beginner Mistakes*



JoesMum said:


> Outstanding thread Tom. Are you able to add in a bit about lighting?



I did mean to include a bit about not usuing the coil bulbs in the Pet Store section, but too late now.

Lighting is so variable amongst the various species and people's preferences, its sort of difficult to outline what exactly is a mistake, vs. what is preference. I figure if they get them outside often enough and the indoor temps are good, then lighting isn't so critical. I guess I'm saying that major lighting mistakes are not as common as some of these others.


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## JoesMum

*RE: Beginner Mistakes*

Two major things with lighting:

1. Have enough - simulate a summer's day by ensuring there is bright light for 12-14 hours.
2. Have UVB. If the tortoise is not going outside on a near daily basis, then UVB light in some form (not a low energy coil bulb) is essential. The needs UVB to help it process Calcium to keep it's shell healthy.


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## Tom

*RE: Beginner Mistakes*



JoesMum said:


> Two major things with lighting:
> 
> 1. Have enough - simulate a summer's day by ensuring there is bright light for 12-14 hours.
> 2. Have UVB. If the tortoise is not going outside on a near daily basis, then UVB light in some form (not a low energy coil bulb) is essential. The needs UVB to help it process Calcium to keep it's shell healthy.



The redfoot and hingeback keepers might disagree... That's why I didn't want to get too specific about it... Your point is well taken though. I agree for most species and most cases.


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## ALDABRAMAN

*RE: Beginner Mistakes*

Great job, maybe make it a sticky.


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## N2TORTS

*RE: Beginner Mistakes*

Nice Thread Tom ..... well thought out and very comprehensive!


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## Tccarolina

*RE: Beginner Mistakes*

Very well done, Tom!


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## Kerryann

*RE: Beginner Mistakes*

That is great information. I wish there was a thread like this when I first got Betty.


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## Hunahpu

*RE: Beginner Mistakes*

That's a great collection of information! I too wish I'd had this when I got my first.


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## yarok

*RE: Beginner Mistakes*

When i first got my sulcata i had him on Rabbit pellets. After joining this forum he is now on eco earth, has a large, shallow water bowl, varied diet, humid hide and takes frequent baths. I thank you all for all your advice.


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## lynnedit

yarok said:


> When i first got my sulcata i had him on Rabbit pellets. After joining this forum he is now on eco earth, has a large, shallow water bowl, varied diet, humid hide and takes frequent baths. I thank you all for all your advice.



Perfect example of why this forum works!

Fantastic post, Tom.


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## Moofahsa

Link is dead?


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## Talka

Moofahsa said:


> Link is dead?



Try here: http://www.tortoiseforum.org/Thread-Beginner-Mistakes#axzz1xRayu3Ss


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## ZooMedFan01

Great tips. Im a new member and looking to get a tortoise so now I know rights and wrongs, although what do you mean by the tortoise disapears if you take it outside? Like it "runs" away of it eats something and dies from it? Not critiquing, just curious because I dont want to get a tortoise and loes it.
Thankyou,
Carl


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## Tom

They tend to run away and hide in the blink of an eye. Its freaky. They can be sitting there for an hour, and then when you aren't paying close enough attention, they are simply gone. Sometimes it happens so fast that it might seem like they vanished into thin air. Really they can just move faster than we think and they are very good at hiding.

The bottom line is: Put them in an appropriate enclosure, and then you won't lose them.


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## kathyth

Thank you very much for this extremely informative info. Some of it I knew and some not. It makes perfect sense.
Kathy


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## jp07

When I click the link I get a 404 message???


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## arotester

jp07 said:


> When I click the link I get a 404 message???



ditto


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## Jacqui

Your right the first link is not working. I'll see if we can figure out the problem.


http://www.tortoiseforum.org/thread-45180.html#axzz2D3O32EAu

Try using that link and see if it works for you.


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## titanoboa

THANK YOU TOM!
I have spend many a days/hours/MONTHS reading up on sulcatas. Ordered books, read forums, caresheets etc, And every single post contradicts the one previous.
I have been looking for someone who has raise a sulcata from Birth TO Adulthood. VERY difficult to find.
I appreciate you sharing your experience and opinions. My baby sulcata will be turning 1 yr old next month! And I spend a lot of time stressing about what I am doing right or wrong. I've already notice a tiny bit of pyramiding and have been trying to figure out what I'm doing wrong. Your advice has definitely given me a few things to work on and change.
Thank you!


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## JennBell0725

Is there a reason the link in the OP isn't working?


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## Yvonne G

It seems to work ok now.


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## Dewald

A baby tortoise arrived on my property, probably from an open field next to the house. The area is known to have wild tortoises. In searching for information on the internet on what do to, I did not find the following information:

Tortoises patrol the boundary of their enclosure because they are looking for a way out. Their instinct is to get away from humans.

As mentioned in point 8, they should not be kept in a barren enclosure. This is presumably due to an instinct to hide from birds of prey. My tortoise disappeared and might have been the victim of such a bird. Thus, small tortoises should either be kept indoors until big enough, or the enclosure covered by wire mesh. If this is not possible, tortoises which are adapted to the area probably have a better chance of survival in the wild, where there are trees, long grass, and vegetation they eat naturally, such as grass (depending on the species).

There are confusing information on the internet about hibernation. Some species do not hibernate, but withdraw and remain in one place on cold days. If they move at all they do so slowly.


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## elzie77

Tom said:


> *RE: Beginner Mistakes*
> 
> 
> 
> I totally agree. This is why I made it number one. Due to the way that some species are typically started, like sulcatas on rabbit pellets with no water bowl for example, I think this one is most critical. If too many of the kidney and liver cells are already dead due to chronic dehydration, there is no way to over come that, even if the new keeper does everything "right".


This is the first thing I read and yes, it is very helpful. I have found very few resources that cover the subject like you have,,,,,thanks


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## AT77

GBtortoises said:


> (Moderator note: I've moved all the commentary off Tom's thread and onto here. To read Tom's thread go here: http://www.tortoiseforum.org/thread-45180.html
> 
> Help, I am new to the tortoise world. I recently purchased some moss for him and he just loves it. He pulls it into his enclosure and covers himself...but I think he might be eating some too...is that okay? Also...how big of an enclosure should he have ... he love to get out and move around on our floor with supervision....so I fear he needs more space than his 50 gallon tank....








Tom-OUTSTANDING!

In my opinion this document should be the first thing that opens when a new member signs on to TFO. If only we could post this outside of every pet shop in America too!

There is little to nothing that could be added to this "tortoise bill of captive care rights". But I will say that one thing that I find disturbing that takes place most often with beginners, but even with keepers of a few years or more experience is pointed out in #6: They often maintain their tortoises _far too hot night and day_. Along with this comes excessive dryness, dehydration, poor food processing and more


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## Krishnasaitejat

jackrat said:


> *RE: Beginner Mistakes*
> 
> Good stuff,Tom! I see #1 causing problems far too often. What is sometimes called "hatchling failure syndrome" is,many times,nothing more than improper care during the first month after hatching. Please,if you are looking to buy a hatchling,do some homework. Ask questions about what kind of care they are recieving,hatch date,temperature and humidity parameters. If the prospective seller can't give satisfactory answers to these basic questions,I personally would consider going somewhere else.


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## Sam&TillsTortugas

Great information Tom! I'm wondering if I should add any substrate to my outdoor enclosure. I have native species and am using the land that was already there. I have a bunch of sand back there, although I added some soil for softness and for some plants i planted. What would you recommend and why is sand dangerous ?


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## Ellen & Toby

This is an excellent post, full of advice that not only helps new tortoise owners but reassures inexperienced owners (such as myself) that we are doing something right! Wish I had seen this when I first got Toby, it was a steep learning curve trying to figure out what was best for Toby and this would have given me a head start. When I first joined TFO I received a welcome message suggesting that I post in the introductions area, could we not add a link to this post in that message? I think everyone should read this experienced or not! Well done and thank you Tom


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## Tom

Sam&TillsTortugas said:


> Great information Tom! I'm wondering if I should add any substrate to my outdoor enclosure. I have native species and am using the land that was already there. I have a bunch of sand back there, although I added some soil for softness and for some plants i planted. What would you recommend and why is sand dangerous ?



Sand is an impaction hazard and possible skin and eye irritant. I would just be sure to not feed him anywhere near the sand. Feed them on grassy or planted areas, and use a feeding tray of some sort.

I don't know how much of the area is sandy, or how sandy, so its difficult to make any sort of recommendation. Pics might help.


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## Sam&TillsTortugas

Tom said:


> Sand is an impaction hazard and possible skin and eye irritant. I would just be sure to not feed him anywhere near the sand. Feed them on grassy or planted areas, and use a feeding tray of some sort.
> 
> I don't know how much of the area is sandy, or how sandy, so its difficult to make any sort of recommendation. Pics might help.



No problem here is a picture, more plants will be added later. I put their food on the pink brick to trim beak but sometimes they carry their food to sand or it falls off. Thank you for that answer by the way


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## Sam&TillsTortugas

Sam&TillsTortugas said:


> No problem here is a picture, more plants will be added later. I put their food on the pink brick to trim beak but sometimes they carry their food to sand or it falls off. Thank you for that answer by the way


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## Sam&TillsTortugas

Our native region is the Chihuahuan desert so it looks like this here


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## Tom

I can't tell from your pic how sandy the soil is. It looks like regular "dirt" to me.

I high fiber diet and regular soaks, should prevent impaction.


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## Sam&TillsTortugas

That probably wasn't the best of pictures to represent the dirt lol. But alright I figure it'll be alright I try and feed them on rocks anyway. And i water it alot thanks alot for your help Tom!


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## KaitlinKeefe_

i love this! i read it way back when i first adopted my tortoise and i have seen so many threads that if they just read this theyd have their questions answered


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## sbRussian

This is ALL great information! Not just for beginners even, it's also a great reminder for long-time pet owners!


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## Arlenetorturtle

Great info for beginners, there is so much bad advice out there, glad to know what is good and bad for tortoises


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## NalaDog1

good information on this site we've learned a lot from here .wife convinced me to join she's a member as well we have 3 torts she got me into them. I like building the enclosures the best fun for me


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## jcalpacagirl34

NalaDog1 said:


> good information on this site we've learned a lot from here .wife convinced me to join she's a member as well we have 3 torts she got me into them. I like building the enclosures the best fun for me


What do you suggest as the best half top for a red foot tortoise enclosure to keep the humidity up? Also the heat and light source are from the outside of it.


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## lexrex7

This is such great information! I have 3 month baby sulcata and all the temperature research I've done is varied by different owners what's an overall good method to finding what works best for the sulcata?


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## Tom

jcalpacagirl34 said:


> What do you suggest as the best half top for a red foot tortoise enclosure to keep the humidity up? Also the heat and light source are from the outside of it.



I wouldn't make a "half top". I would build a full closed chamber.


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## Tom

lexrex7 said:


> This is such great information! I have 3 month baby sulcata and all the temperature research I've done is varied by different owners what's an overall good method to finding what works best for the sulcata?



Its all right here:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/how-to-raise-a-healthy-sulcata-or-leopard-version-2-0.79895/
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/for-those-who-have-a-young-sulcata.76744/


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## Belinda charpentier

Great thread, thanks.


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## charles leek

wow lots of great info. but #6 i agree with 100 percent but what are the 4 temps? i am only 4 days into this and want to do the best for my guy and teach my grandson to do his best also. after all he will be the one finishing this job. thanks to you and all of you this is a great place to hang out with tort lovers from all over.


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## K8E K

GBtortoises said:


> (Moderator note: I've moved all the commentary off Tom's thread and onto here. To read Tom's thread go here: http://www.tortoiseforum.org/thread-45180.html
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tom-OUTSTANDING!
> 
> In my opinion this document should be the first thing that opens when a new member signs on to TFO. If only we could post this outside of every pet shop in America too!
> 
> There is little to nothing that could be added to this "tortoise bill of captive care rights". But I will say that one thing that I find disturbing that takes place most often with beginners, but even with keepers of a few years or more experience is pointed out in #6: They often maintain their tortoises _far too hot night and day_. Along with this comes excessive dryness, dehydration, poor food processing and more.


Absolutely agree- I've had a breeder or two recommend temps too hot, and I always do my research to verify those recommendations because I've lost a tortoise to overly hot temps. Something I'd rather not own up to, and a lesson I will not *ever* repeat, it was heartbreaking, accidental, and could have been prevented by an inexpensive thermostat, more routine temp gun checking, and some more education on my part. Simple fixes. Chalk it up to mistakes made in my 20's, but when another creature's life is at stake.... anyway. This resonated with me, I'm still very sensitive to the dire, utterly heartbreaking consequences of incorrect temperature.


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## Tom

charles leek said:


> wow lots of great info. but #6 i agree with 100 percent but what are the 4 temps? i am only 4 days into this and want to do the best for my guy and teach my grandson to do his best also. after all he will be the one finishing this job. thanks to you and all of you this is a great place to hang out with tort lovers from all over.



Depends on the species. Over all warmer with warm nights for tropical species, and you need a night time cooling period for temperate species.


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## Tom

K8E K said:


> Absolutely agree- I've had a breeder or two recommend temps too hot, and I always do my research to verify those recommendations because I've lost a tortoise to overly hot temps. Something I'd rather not own up to, and a lesson I will not *ever* repeat, it was heartbreaking, accidental, and could have been prevented by an inexpensive thermostat, more routine temp gun checking, and some more education on my part. Simple fixes. Chalk it up to mistakes made in my 20's, but when another creature's life is at stake.... anyway. This resonated with me, I'm still very sensitive to the dire, utterly heartbreaking consequences of incorrect temperature.



The guilt I feel over my past mistakes of ignorance are what drive me to make threads like this one. I want to help other people avoid making the same mistakes that I have made.

Sounds like you understand completely.


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## Momagn36

I'm highly interested in the post about turning a kiddie pool into an outdoor place but the links in the beginners mistakes post are not working. Anyone have a new link?


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## The Carter's

Great post... wish I had come across this years ago... could have saved a lot of time and prevented a few mistakes..
If only this info could go with every one sold found given or however new owners become new owners...


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## Meag

I just joined this forum and decided to start investigating some of the threads. I'm so happy I stumbled upon this first! I currently don't have a water dish in my baby Hermann's enclosure because I thought that soaking it once or twice a day would be enough, and I was worried about leaving it unattended. I will definitely be adding a water dish to ensure my tortoise is adequately hydrated. 

Thanks!


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## Tom

Meag said:


> I just joined this forum and decided to start investigating some of the threads. I'm so happy I stumbled upon this first! I currently don't have a water dish in my baby Hermann's enclosure because I thought that soaking it once or twice a day would be enough, and I was worried about leaving it unattended. I will definitely be adding a water dish to ensure my tortoise is adequately hydrated.
> 
> Thanks!



Hello and welcome.

I use terra cotta plant saucers sunk into the substrate for water and for food too. I use various sizes for the tortoises as they grow.


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## Ketta

Laura said:


> *RE: Beginner Mistakes*
> 
> yep,, ditto,, great info! and I really stress the part of a safe enclosure.. NO free roaming.. We are human and get distraced too easily and one wanders off.. sometimes never to be found... or found by the dog.. :-(.....


In my case I let him out cause I have no dog or cat. Only 1 lovebird. But always supervising him. Yup great info @Tom thanks God I read this and other thread about why is not good to have 2 tortoises together. It's similar with lovebirds only 2 males can be together male and female too but if female wants to mate and male is too young she can kill him. Just like 2 females can kill each other...


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## Slowhand1964

Tom said:


> They tend to run away and hide in the blink of an eye. Its freaky. They can be sitting there for an hour, and then when you aren't paying close enough attention, they are simply gone. Sometimes it happens so fast that it might seem like they vanished into thin air. Really they can just move faster than we think and they are very good at hiding.
> 
> The bottom line is: Put them in an appropriate enclosure, and then you won't lose them.



Sage advice. Our goal was to allow Henry the run of the yard, but quickly he got himself into some pickles, the most recent wedged between a ladder and a Hoe. In the garden he got entangled in a Zucchini plant and then he got wedged between the rabbit hutch and a brick wall.. He does not go around objects, rather through them. Muy importeante! He will climb yet is not very nimble, or intelligent in that regard. We are taking measures now to mitigate potential hazards and enclose him in that area. Just trying to find the perfect balance between human and tortoise happiness in our yard....

As my mother used to say: Curiosity killed the cat, and DT are very curious

Great tip, Sir....thanks


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## anhduy0410

Thanks Tom this is very useful with newbie like me


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## racinglover242

this is extremely helpful thank you


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## Jan A

The solar light is a nice touch!


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## Katie14

Thanks, Tom!


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## Barbecue

GBtortoises said:


> (Moderator note: I've moved all the commentary off Tom's thread and onto here. To read Tom's thread go here: http://www.tortoiseforum.org/thread-45180.html
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tom-OUTSTANDING!
> 
> In my opinion this document should be the first thing that opens when a new member signs on to TFO. If only we could post this outside of every pet shop in America too!
> 
> There is little to nothing that could be added to this "tortoise bill of captive care rights". But I will say that one thing that I find disturbing that takes place most often with beginners, but even with keepers of a few years or more experience is pointed out in #6: They often maintain their tortoises _far too hot night and day_. Along with this comes excessive dryness, dehydration, poor food processing and more.


I cannot get Toms Thread to download to be able to read common mistakes
from Barbecue


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## Barbecue

Jacqui said:


> Your right the first link is not working. I'll see if we can figure out the problem.
> 
> http://www.tortoiseforum.org/thread-45180.html#axzz2D3O32EAu
> 
> Try using that link and see if it works for you.


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## Barbecue

still 404 not found
Would sure love to b able to read it. Seems everyone that has has enjoyed the article
from Barbecue


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## Tom

Barbecue said:


> still 404 not found
> Would sure love to b able to read it. Seems everyone that has has enjoyed the article
> from Barbecue


This thread is ancient. 10 years old. I incorporated most of these beginner mistakes into the care sheets. What species have you got?


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## Barbecue

Tom said:


> This thread is ancient. 10 years old. I incorporated most of these beginner mistakes into the care sheets. What species have you got?


I have a 7-9 year old Red Foot Tortoise named Daisy


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## Barbecue

Barbecue said:


> I have a 7-9 year old Red Foot Tortoise named Daisy


She lives in a guinea pig habitetate. Two of them that i have but together


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## Tom

Barbecue said:


> She lives in a guinea pig habitetate. Two of them that i have but together


I don't keep that species, so I don't have a care sheet for them, but this one is good:





Redfoot Tortoise Care Sheet


NOTE: I do not keep redfoots, and I only have one tortoise in total. With this in mind, remember that I am in no way an expert, and this should not be used as cold hard proof of how to raise a redfoot. I used information from great keepers on this forum to put everything together. This care...




tortoiseforum.org


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## ariana grande

Yes, it happens, Thanks for the nice informative post.


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## Barbecue

what about the UVA, UVB, colored lights of Plant lights threw out the Habitat for Redfoot Tort to even out lighting for large habitat
Barbie


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## Barbecue

Tom said:


> I don't keep that species, so I don't have a care sheet for them, but this one is good:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Redfoot Tortoise Care Sheet
> 
> 
> NOTE: I do not keep redfoots, and I only have one tortoise in total. With this in mind, remember that I am in no way an expert, and this should not be used as cold hard proof of how to raise a redfoot. I used information from great keepers on this forum to put everything together. This care...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tortoiseforum.org


Thank you. Been reading and re reading


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## King Arthur

GBtortoises said:


> (Moderator note: I've moved all the commentary off Tom's thread and onto here. To read Tom's thread go here: http://www.tortoiseforum.org/thread-45180.html
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tom-OUTSTANDING!
> 
> In my opinion this document should be the first thing that opens when a new member signs on to TFO. If only we could post this outside of every pet shop in America too!
> 
> There is little to nothing that could be added to this "tortoise bill of captive care rights". But I will say that one thing that I find disturbing that takes place most often with beginners, but even with keepers of a few years or more experience is pointed out in #6: They often maintain their tortoises _far too hot night and day_. Along with this comes excessive dryness, dehydration, poor food processing and more.


I'd like to read this Tom but it doesn't open.. says not found, is there another way ?


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## Tom

King Arthur said:


> I'd like to read this Tom but it doesn't open.. says not found, is there another way ?


I can only find the thread, not the discussion thread:





Beginner Mistakes


To comment on Tom's article, go here: http://www.tortoiseforum.org/Thread-split-Beginner-Mistakes#axzz1tG8s05M5 Over the years many of us, myself included, have made many of these mistakes, and we have certainly seen them made many times by others. With springtime upon us and many new...




tortoiseforum.org





Most of this is incorporated into the care sheets now.


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