# Heat Mat and Heat Cable wattage?



## BrinnANDTorts (Dec 8, 2011)

Hey everyone i was thinking about switching to substrate heating to keep my tortoises warm.
For two to three inches of cypress mulch substrate about how much wattage do you think i would need? I want it to be around 80 degrees.
They come in really low wattages like 4, 8, 15, 25 and some are 50 watts and they also have 100 watts. 
I am going to put the mat or cables in the cage on the bottom and put the substrate on top, I don't want to burn my tortoises either. 
My greeks don't burrow past like one inch and half of the substrate so I'm thinking as long as I keep the substrate pretty deep it wont burn them. 
They will still have a basking light on part of the day and it wont be dark in their cage because the lights in my room shine through the plastic and light it up.


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## jaizei (Dec 9, 2011)

Don't the different wattages correspond to different lengths/sizes? I would base it on that, you will need some type of thermostat/controller regardless.


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## BrinnANDTorts (Dec 9, 2011)

Yea I think you are right , I got a 50 watt cable that is 18 feet long...
I am going to bunch it up real tight in the enclosure and hope that heats up the substrate enough
I got mine from the apple pet supply online that someone reccomended me too


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## lynnedit (Dec 9, 2011)

I think Mark (Madkins 07) attaches his cable to a length of wire (plastic or galvanized), using zip ties or twisties. This way you can make sure the heat cable stays in the pattern you want. Some heat cables need to be laid out so they don't touch each other to avoid shorts. You do need a thermostat with the wire sensor positioned next to the heat cable.
He then turns the wire over to the torts can't dislodge the wire when they scrabble around.
Make sure you get heat cable that is water proof. Can't remember where you are located, this is a very good product (it is what he uses): http://www.bigappleherp.com/Big-Apple-Flexible-Heat-Ropes.
It can go under the enclosure too, attached with foil tape. But wood does not transmit heat as well, which is why it keeps the substrate warmer if on the floor of the enclosure.


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## Redstrike (Dec 9, 2011)

These are it:
http://www.bigappleherp.com/Big-Apple-Flexible-Heat-Ropes

I use these for humidity, but I'm not sure how many or what wattage you'd need to heat your enclosure with. They do get quite warm and you'll want a thermostatic controller (dimmer switch or rheostat) while running them. 

I have one 12 ft rope under 1/2 my enclosures substrate. Like I said, it works great for boosting humidity, but I run a 60 & 100 watt CHE on opposite ends (hooked into a Zoo Med thermostat) for primary heating. I'm not sure how efficient these things are at heating air space within the enclosure...especially for something like Greeks that need a fairly warm climate?


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## BrinnANDTorts (Dec 9, 2011)

I got mine from that Big Apple Pet Supply cause they had the best price and the longest cables. 
I planned to just tape the cable in the pattern I wanted to the bottom inside the enclosure and then just cover it up with substrate. I'm going to mix in some peat moss with my cypress mulch so that the heat travels better and makes the substrate deeper.
I want them for humidity and to warm the substrate that the Greeks are burrowing in
It'd be nice to find a good warm bottom heating source that kept the substrate and the temps around 80 - 85 24/7 and then just only have a basking light that stayed on for part of the day.. 
I have a little fluorescent tube that puts out a bunch of clear bright white light in the enclosure to simulate day light so they just aren't stuck in the dark. 
I also have a exo terra 25 watt like two feet heat cable that I am going to run in the humidity hide to keep it warm and the substrate warm cause thats where they like to burrow the most and sleep.


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## BrinnANDTorts (Dec 9, 2011)

I put the heat cable in the bottom of their humidity hide, the exo terra 25 watt one, im pretty sure its only 15 inches or 20 inches long and it works really well so far. It keeps the humidity box and substrate around 90 degrees. nice and warm and humid. It has about two and half to three inches of substrate cypress mulch in it


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## lynnedit (Dec 9, 2011)

That's good to know. Glad it is working!


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## jackrat (Dec 10, 2011)

A layer of soil or compost under the mulch improves performance when using a cable. The soil can hold a lot of water and the cypress functions like a wick. Provides a lot of humidity,keeps your torts off of a wet substrate. Soil conducts the heat better than cypress and becomes a heat sink,helping prevent rapid temperature swings in the substrate. My cable runs are about 3" apart,set in the middle layer of the soil.


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## lynnedit (Dec 10, 2011)

jackrat said:


> A layer of soil or compost under the mulch improves performance when using a cable. The soil can hold a lot of water and the cypress functions like a wick. Provides a lot of humidity,keeps your torts off of a wet substrate. Soil conducts the heat better than cypress and becomes a heat sink,helping prevent rapid temperature swings in the substrate. My cable runs are about 3" apart,set in the middle layer of the soil.



Do you attach the cable to a plastic or galvanized wire sheet to stabilized it in the soil?


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## BrinnANDTorts (Dec 10, 2011)

I had to stop using it because It got way too hot... I was watching it very carefully incase this happened. I had going to have to get some kind of dimmer or something to allow me to control how hot the cable gets. I had it tapped down in the pattern I wanted


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## jackrat (Dec 10, 2011)

lynnedit said:


> jackrat said:
> 
> 
> > A layer of soil or compost under the mulch improves performance when using a cable. The soil can hold a lot of water and the cypress functions like a wick. Provides a lot of humidity,keeps your torts off of a wet substrate. Soil conducts the heat better than cypress and becomes a heat sink,helping prevent rapid temperature swings in the substrate. My cable runs are about 3" apart,set in the middle layer of the soil.
> ...


Mine came with some holders that keep it off the bottom. It has a thermostatic controller that you just dial the temperature you want.


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## lynnedit (Dec 10, 2011)

BrinnANDGupta said:


> I had to stop using it because It got way too hot... I was watching it very carefully incase this happened. I had going to have to get some kind of dimmer or something to allow me to control how hot the cable gets. I had it tapped down in the pattern I wanted



Yes, go to their web site.
http://www.bigappleherp.com/Big-Apple-Flexible-Heat-Ropes
At the end of the YouTube presentation, he mentions using a thermostat and taping the wire probe right to the heated part of the cable to be able to control the heat. You can then dial the thermostat up or down to get the soil heat where you want it. I think it can go to 120F w/o a thermostat, so they really advise using one! 
Their brand of thermostat is not the cheapest, but still reasonable, and gets good reviews.
http://www.bigappleherp.com/BAH-1000-Thermostat.
That is a good cable, it would be a shame not to use it.




jackrat said:


> lynnedit said:
> 
> 
> > jackrat said:
> ...



What brand are you using?


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## Madkins007 (Dec 10, 2011)

Part of what controls the heat is the spacing of the cables. Yours may just be too close together, but this is one reason I keep recommending a thermostratic controller.


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## lynnedit (Dec 10, 2011)

Madkins007 said:


> Part of what controls the heat is the spacing of the cables. Yours may just be too close together, but this is one reason I keep recommending a thermostratic controller.



Mark, how closely did you space yours (I remember you attached or wove the cable through wire)?


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## jackrat (Dec 10, 2011)

lynnedit said:


> jackrat said:
> 
> 
> > A layer of soil or compost under the mulch improves performance when using a cable. The soil can hold a lot of water and the cypress functions like a wick. Provides a lot of humidity,keeps your torts off of a wet substrate. Soil conducts the heat better than cypress and becomes a heat sink,helping prevent rapid temperature swings in the substrate. My cable runs are about 3" apart,set in the middle layer of the soil.
> ...


I don't attach it to anything. The holders that came with it secures it and holds it off the bottom of the viv.


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## lynnedit (Dec 10, 2011)

jackrat said:


> lynnedit said:
> 
> 
> > jackrat said:
> ...



Thanks, what brand do you use? It comes with its own thermostatic controller?


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## BrinnANDTorts (Dec 10, 2011)

I had the cable spaced really close together because I wanted it to heat up the humid hide substrate so that was probably the mistake and why it got too hot. When I use to have it in my old enclosure with Gupta I spaced the cable out way more and it wasn't near as hot. 
I will also get one of those thermostatic controllers. I can probably find one on Amazon for cheaper and free shipping  I buy almost all my pet supplies off amazon lol 
I can just keep using tap to secure it to the bottom of the enclosure in the pattern I want but I will brain storm maybe a better way. 
I keep hearing foil tape mentioned , I'm not sure what that is but I am about to research it and maybe get some.
I am very excited to get the heat cable and thermostatic controller and get it all set up. 
To me it's a very easy solution for 24/7 heating without having to cut up a whole bunch on holes in the top of my enclosures, and I wouldn't have to pick up the hot light dome fixtures to lift up the lid.  Plus great for humidity and maybe save electricity cause it's low wattage. I am skeptical that just a 50 watt heat cable will keep my whole enclosure the tempature I need it when it takes 160 watts of overhead lights. We shall see!!  

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000NZZG3S/?tag=exoticpetnetw-20

This is the thermostatic controller I bought, only 30 bucks and free shipping. 
Everything will be here on Wedsenday so super excited lol


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## lynnedit (Dec 10, 2011)

You will find foil tape in the section of places like Lowes or Home Depot where they sell rolls of insulation. It is literally aluminum tape that comes on a roll. Thus, you can use it to hold down things like cable, because it won't burn. I believe they mention it on the Big Apple Reptile flexible heat rope YouTube clip.
That thermostat is perfect!


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## BrinnANDTorts (Dec 10, 2011)

lynnedit said:


> You will find foil tape in the section of places like Lowes or Home Depot where they sell rolls of insulation. It is literally aluminum tape that comes on a roll. Thus, you can use it to hold down things like cable, because it won't burn. I believe they mention it on the Big Apple Reptile flexible heat rope YouTube clip.
> That thermostat is perfect!



Awww thank u !!!


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## Madkins007 (Dec 11, 2011)

Mine is spaced at about 1.5-2", and is controlled by a cheapo ZooMed thermostat set to about 85F. At these settings, it runs most of the time.

The bottom of my habitat is a piece of ABS plastic, so I have a hardware cloth spacer in there, that I also secure the cord to so I don't mess it up when I stir the substrate. When I was using an aquarium, I could just use even electrical tape to secure it.


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## BrinnANDTorts (Dec 11, 2011)

Madkins007 said:


> Mine is spaced at about 1.5-2", and is controlled by a cheapo ZooMed thermostat set to about 85F. At these settings, it runs most of the time.
> 
> The bottom of my habitat is a piece of ABS plastic, so I have a hardware cloth spacer in there, that I also secure the cord to so I don't mess it up when I stir the substrate. When I was using an aquarium, I could just use even electrical tape to secure it.



Do you use the heat cable as your main source of heat ? Or do you have a CHE that runs all the time with that ?


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## Madkins007 (Dec 12, 2011)

CHE also, also set on a thermostatic controller. Some days it runs a lot, sometimes it barely kicks in.


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## BrinnANDTorts (Dec 12, 2011)

Where do u put the probe for the CHE ? Does it matter ?


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## Madkins007 (Dec 13, 2011)

Mine is on the substrate a bit away from the hot and cool spots. It does not matter a lot as long as you set it how you want it. For example, I aim to keep my neutral areas about 83-86F, so since it is in a neutral area, that is what it is set for. 

The habitat is 48"x20", the heat cables cover almost everything but the far right side and some areas along the back. There is a CHE over the shelter areas on the left and am MVB set for about 6 hours a day on the far left. When the MVB turns off, there is no more 'hot spot' in there, so the CHE and cables work together to keep it nice. The room itself is usually 70ish, so they don't have to work too awfully hard.


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## BrinnANDTorts (Dec 15, 2011)

I just got done with the new enclosure and I am thinking I made the substrate too deep for the heat rope to have any kind of good effect. Its like five inches deep , four in some places. Its a mixture of peat moss and cypress mulch. 
I will check in the morning and see how warm the substrate is after its had all night to warm up and get hot. 

I will have to eliminate like two inches of substrate if the case is that its too deep which will be a huge pain haha 
The heat rope wasn't as long as I thought it would be either so I didn't get to bunch it up as closely as i wanted to . I haven't put it on that thermostat yet either because I didn't think it would get hot enough to go through all five inches of substrate


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## lynnedit (Dec 15, 2011)

A deep substrate is nice, though, to hold in humidity. if you zip or twisty tie your cable to a wire base (galvanized or plastic) in the pattern you want, and flip it over (to protect it from the tort), you can put down 1-2" of soil, then your cable, then another 3-5" of soil. I think the soil holds in the heat better too.
Then you can use the thermostat, which is safer. YOu might have to turn the thermostat up higher to get the soil to the temp you want, but at least the cable is regulated.


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