# bladder stones



## sushisurf13 (Sep 25, 2008)

Today one of my coworkers brought in a HUGE bladder stone that came out of his adult male DT.
He said the tort had been acting a little weird lately, so he took him to the vet yesterday. The Vet noticed the stone right away and sadi that it was actually visible through the shell. 
They performed surgery to remove the stone. My friend said that he was expecting a stone maybe the size of a quarter, however, the stone is massive. 
He brought it into work today and its a little bigger than a baseball, I'm trying to get some pics of it for you guys.
Needless to say I was amazed at how huge this thing is, I never would have guessed. I'm so glad the vet recognized this and knew what to do.
The tortoise is doing just fine after surgery and he is already back to doing what torts do. AWSOME.
has anyone else delt with or seen this before? Now I'm getting concerned about all my torts.


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## Yvonne G (Sep 25, 2008)

Its a hydration issue. A lot of folks feel that because the tortoise comes from the desert where water is scarce that they must get most of their water from the food they eat. This is probably true, but they do also require either a water dish or a drink out of the hose every other day or so. Having had kidney stones recently, I really can feel for a tortoise with a stone that big. It must have been cutting off the flow of fluid both into and out of the bladder. Thank goodness for a vet who's on the ball!

Yvonne


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## sushisurf13 (Sep 25, 2008)

Thanks Yvonne,
I just asked my co-worker if his tortoise drinks, he said that of his 3 DT's, this one drinks the most and seems to "run" to any water source. He said that the tortoise will spend a while drinking from his dish or from the waterhose, EVERYDAY. I was expecting him tell me that the tortoise does not drink much. But this guys really seems to like the water. What else could have caused something like this? He has had this tort for 14 years with no problems.


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## Shelly (Sep 25, 2008)

I have an adult female that NEVER drinks. In the 8 years I have had her, she hasn't had a single drink of water that I have seen.


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## Brownie (Sep 25, 2008)

My old male dt had a bladder stone removed 2 years ago. It was about 2.5 inches in diameter. I adopted him a few years before the surgery and know that his previous diet had been poor ( including dog food ). The doctor could palpate my dt and easily feel the stone with his index fingers thrust into the back leg joints of my tort. (Place your index fingers into the inside of both their legs and gently feel for the stone.) My tort was so big you could feel both sides of the stone and actually move it between your extended fingers. I check all of my own now. Because my tort was an old boy ( 15" long), he did have some complications after the surgery... including loss of appetite and an ongoing throat noise from, I am told, being trach-ed for the surgery. Last year he spent the summer recuperating and taking it easy. I brumated him last year and he did fine. We are two years past his surgery and he is doing well. His fiberglass patch is supposed to wear off in another year or so. I credit my vet with saving my tort's life. The stone was huge and would have eventually killed him. There is speculation that bladder stones, although occuring in some wild desert tortoises, seem to be a greater problem for captive torts leading to the assumption it might be a problem of drinking hard city water. It may be woth considering. We have terribly hard city water. If it can corrode pipes in our house, it might corrode pipes in my dt.


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## james (Sep 25, 2008)

Shelly said:


> I have an adult female that NEVER drinks. In the 8 years I have had her, she hasn't had a single drink of water that I have seen.




do you soak your tortoise? if he doesn't drink, he will absorb it.


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## egyptiandan (Sep 25, 2008)

It could very well be diet Eric. Anything high in oaxilates, kale, collard greens, spinach, bok choy, brussel sprouts, cabbage, brocolli, califlower and the flower stems of dandelions, to name a few will cause stones.

Danny


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## sushisurf13 (Sep 25, 2008)

I've always wondered about using tap water, due to the hardness of it. I generally use reverse osmosis water for soaking and in the water bowls. But they do drink from the hose/sprinklers occasionaly.
I will post some pics of the stone tomorrow, I really cant believe that something the size of a baseball came out of a tortoise. Even if it came from an elephant, I be shocked at the size.


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## Shelly (Sep 25, 2008)

How did they remove something so large? Did they need to cut the shell?


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## sushisurf13 (Sep 25, 2008)

Yes, the cut the shell. they repaired him with fiberglass that will wear off in a few years. Sounds aggressive but you gotta do what you gotta do.



Shelly said:


> How did they remove something so large? Did they need to cut the shell?


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## Shelly (Sep 26, 2008)

Yikes! I wonder what your friend's vet bill was?


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## longbeachskunk (Sep 26, 2008)

Oh my... I'm new hear and while I find this forum absolutely helpful, I'm super paranoid now about these bladder stones. I have two 8 year old DT's that I recently adopted 3 months ago. I've been giving them tap water but I'm switching them to sparklettes. And while I haven't yet to see them actually drink from their dish, I can assume that they do because I've seen them pee when they eat. Plus once a week I splash them with the hose or put them underneath the sprinklers and they seem to enjoy it... good thing to know their shells absorb the water! So has anyone else seen their torts pee?
Also, do torts ever drop their testicles when they are sleeping? Because I've seen something similar to what would be testicles or something of a purple color twice just hanging out of its butt and gently resting on the ground when my smaller tort was in a deep sleep, but then when it awoke he squeezed them back in like it was nothing. To be honest, I'm not quite sure if the smaller one is a male or female, it is significantly smaller than the bigger one who is definitly a male, but its shell underneath isn't concave enough to tell.


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## Yvonne G (Sep 26, 2008)

If you want to use water other than tap water, don't use distilled water. Distilled water doesn't have any minerals in it and long term use is not beneficial.

As far as the testicle question...no, its not testicles. It is his penis. Congratulations! Its a BOY!! Sometimes this happens if the tortoise has quite a load of parasites. You might take in a stool sample to the vet to see if that's the case in your little boy. If he were putting the penis out on purpose, I would not think of parasites, but since you say it happens when the tortoise is at rest, it makes me think of the parasite problem.

Yvonne


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## Crazy1 (Sep 26, 2008)

Yes, I have seen my torts pee and poo. I give them tap water but use Reptisafe in their water. It is a Instant Terrarium Water Conditioner make by zoomed. I also use this for them to soak in. The adults do however get sprinkler water occasionally. I would be careful of using any type of bottled water. These often have minerals, etc., and lots of salt added. They do not recommend you water your plants with any bottled water. I would not use it on or for my torts.

Here is what zoomed says about Reptisafe: Instant drinking water conditioner for all types of snakes, lizards, turtles, tortoises, amphibians, hermit crabs, and arachnids. Safely removes chloramines, chlorine, and ammonia, detoxifies nitrites, and provides essential ions and electrolytes. Helps in hydrating new animals. Stimulates slime coat development providing a natural protective barrier for all types of amphibians (frogs, toads, salamanders, newts, etc.). Reduces pH. ReptiSafe is the only terrarium water conditioner on the market. For reptile bowls, chameleon drip water systems, or aquatic turtle tanks. No harsh chemicals. Unique organic colloid and organic chelating agent delivery system. 
Directions For Use: Terrarium Water Bowls: Add two drops of ReptiSafe per 8 ounces (1 cup) of water. Add as above every time you change water (i.e. daily). Aquatic Turtle/Amphibian Water Environments: Add three teaspoons per gallon of water.


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## longbeachskunk (Sep 26, 2008)

Thanks for the good advice so far. Parasites huh? Ok, I will take them to a vet to get checked up. Would it be easier to just take a stool sample to them? I don't have any papers for my DT's, however I did not obtain them illegally and I'm scared they might call fish and game on me and take my friends away,

oh and is it normal for them to eat their poop? I clean up after them as much as possible but sometimes the smaller one grubs the poop before I get a chance to pick it up. I know I'm getting off the original subject line but I'm getting good helpful resposes so far.


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## sushisurf13 (Sep 26, 2008)

I just took a couple of pics, I'll post them when I get home from work tonight at 6:30. You will all be amazed!!!


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## Yvonne G (Sep 26, 2008)

You can just take in a fresh sample. As to losing your tortoises, vets aren't interested in how legal or illegal your animals are (most vets, that is). They are there to help the animals, not to be the animal police.

If you would like to apply for a license to keep your tortoises, its really easy to do. And there is no investigation as to how you came about having them. There is one line on the form asking how you acquired the tortoises, and you can just say you got them from a friend, or adopted them from the turtle club, or whatever. Any chapter of CTTC can give you the form.

Yvonne


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## sushisurf13 (Sep 26, 2008)

The bill was a whopping $3,000 dollars. Easy to spend on a tort that's been with you for 14 years.




Shelly said:


> Yikes! I wonder what your friend's vet bill was?




I just posted some pics in a new thread, but here they are again.


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## longbeachskunk (Sep 30, 2008)

Thanks Yvonne!


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