# Shell Hardening



## ashleighnicol (Jul 11, 2010)

Given correct lighting, diet and hydration; does anybody know how long it takes for a young leopard tortoises shell to harden? 
I received my baby leopard tort a little over two weeks ago and when I got him I noticed that his plastron had some give to it (nothing major, but noticeable). I figured that it was probably because he wasn't getting the worlds best diet, lighting and husbandry in his previous home. For the past two weeks he's been eating well, being soaked daily and has the right diet, lighting and has been given both calcium supplements in his food and a cuttlebone, however, his plastron still remains soft as it did on his first day. Does anybody know when I can expect to see improvement if I'm doing everything right? Is there anything else I can do to speed up the shell-hardening process?? - He (or she) is also currently being treated with antibiotic injections for a respiratory infection if that makes a difference. Any advice would be much appreciated!


----------



## Kristina (Jul 11, 2010)

The best thing you can do? Get that baby outside into some real sunlight  20 minutes a day, a couple of times a week will do wonders.

You can also buy liquid calcium carbonate, and administer that.


----------



## ashleighnicol (Jul 11, 2010)

kyryah said:


> The best thing you can do? Get that baby outside into some real sunlight  20 minutes a day, a couple of times a week will do wonders.
> 
> You can also buy liquid calcium carbonate, and administer that.



Thanks. Do you know where I can get liquid calcium carbonate?? He has a UVB/full spectrum light that is on 12 hours a day and I try to take him outside when I get a chance.


----------



## pugsandkids (Jul 11, 2010)

Outside, outside, outside! I lost my leopard hatchling, and I think it was due in part to not enough time outside. It was horribly cold and rainy for quite a while, and looking back there was a marked difference. Before rain, then during rain. I messed with many bulbs and worked so hard to make it perfect, but due to the temps I could not safely take him outside. Now I wonder if I should've anyway...


----------



## Tom (Jul 11, 2010)

Under ordinary circumstances you should start to see improvement within a few weeks. It can take a year or more to fully harden up in some circumstances. How old? How big? Where do you live? What's the humidity and temp like right now? We need more info to give good recommendations. Did you figure out WHY he got the URTI and solve that problem? Are you keeping temps at least 80 round the clock? Outside time is usually good advice, but there are some exceptions.


----------



## ashleighnicol (Jul 12, 2010)

Tom said:


> Under ordinary circumstances you should start to see improvement within a few weeks. It can take a year or more to fully harden up in some circumstances. How old? How big? Where do you live? What's the humidity and temp like right now? We need more info to give good recommendations. Did you figure out WHY he got the URTI and solve that problem? Are you keeping temps at least 80 round the clock? Outside time is usually good advice, but there are some exceptions.



The temperature in the room has only fallen below 78 F a couple times and has pretty much remained at 80 or above ever since he arrived. He has a 'zoo-med Powersun UVA & UVB bulb that provides a basking spot of 95 degrees. The humidity is very low- definitely less than 20 percent. 
I'm guessing he got the URTI from stress related to travel. According to the reptile dealer I purchased him from (who had only positive reviews that I could find), he did not show any signs of illness before travel, however, Fedex screwed up the shipping process (NEVER trust them with your tortoise!!) and I think the extra travel time may have caused him a lot of stress. Less than a day after he arrived I started noticing some congestion. I took him to the vet (for a general check up and because I noticed the URTI) and aside from the URTI and a coccidia infection he is fine. He is being treated for the coccidia infection with Albon. I also had a 'husbandry consultation' with the vet and they thought my set-up and diet was great and the only suggestion they made was to switch out the eco-earth bedding for hay to alleviate any dust issues that might contribute to a respiratory problem. 
He/she appears to be of the leopard tortoise subspecies pardalis pardalis (because he has a few vertebral scutes with two dots), in which case he is only a few months old at about 3.65 inches long. If he is of the subspecies pardalis babcocki, however, this size puts him closer to a year of age. 
I have been taking him outside and letting him run around in a grassy, sunny area when I get a chance and he is awake (3-4 times per week). However, this is usually not during the heat of the day so the sun may not be as strong. I live in NYC.
Any advice/ideas would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.



pugsandkids said:


> Outside, outside, outside! I lost my leopard hatchling, and I think it was due in part to not enough time outside. It was horribly cold and rainy for quite a while, and looking back there was a marked difference. Before rain, then during rain. I messed with many bulbs and worked so hard to make it perfect, but due to the temps I could not safely take him outside. Now I wonder if I should've anyway...



I'm sorry to hear that. Were you using a UVA and UVB combo bulb with adequately high temps in his indoor enclosure (75+ F) and a calcium supplement? What other signs/ symptoms did you notice as he went downhill?


----------



## Tom (Jul 12, 2010)

The humidity issue for Leopards is still a bit of a mystery. Lots of people keep them very humid, on a humid substrate, like eco-earth (it won't be dusty if you dampen it), with humid hide boxes and have no problems ever. Then we hear about the occasional one who gets a URTI. Makes me nervous. There is almost always some form of major stress, like subtle bullying or competition from a cage mate, or they get a little too cool while damp, or shipping issues, when we hear about the URTI cases, but not always. Or at least WE don't always discover the stressor. I'm surmising the stressor is there, and either the person isn't telling or we aren't asking the right questions. I've never had a Leopard just get sick for no reason. In fact, I've never had one get sick in my care ever. I've helped other people rehab sick ones, but mine never got sick.

Here's the thing with Leopards. They pyramid. Really badly and really easily. If all other husbandry is good, then it is only cosmetic. If this doesn't bother you then you can keep him very dry all the time and reduce your chances of URTI. If you want him to be smoother, there are things that you can do to help. Since your temps are good and we have an obvious source of major stress in your case, I'd start with these things as soon as the URTI has run its course. Here's what I would do if I were you. As soon as the URTI is done, I'd dampen the eco-earth a little. Then, give him a humid hide box on both the cool end and the warm end, all the while making sure you keep those temps up where you've got them now. Next, I'd warm water soak him every day and as Terry K puts it, "spray his shell until he drips, 3 to 4 times a day." All this hydration/moisture/humidity is the key to preventing pyramiding. The two most important elements seem to be: Do it early, and don't let them get a chill when damp like this. Once they are older and bigger, the humidity doesn't matter as much, so it makes it pretty easy to move them outside more often and not have to worry so much about the temps and dampness level. If you've got the South African subspecies, then they should be very cold and dampness tolerant. I've recently learned that there is a fair amount of mixing between the two subspecies out there. Here's a good source of info on pyramiding and Leopards in general. This guy really knows his stuff. http://www.ivorytortoise.com/information/documents/pyramiding_in_tortoises.html

Love to see some pics of yours. http://tinypic.com/ makes it really easy. No account, no personal info needed, no hassle. Just click on the link, upload any size photo and then copy and paste the IMG code in to your post here on the forum.

Hope all this helps and hope your little guy recovers and lives long happy life with you.


----------

