# New baby possibly very sick



## synspyder (Jan 11, 2012)

We just got our little baby greek and I'm very worried about him.

He blows bubbles out of his nose, sometimes several at a time, and squeaks when he breathes. Some times he opens his mouth very wide and takes in a big breath. I'm concerned he has a respiratory illness.

We're taking him to the vet as soon as we can figure out how to get him there without him freezing (our only means of transportation is a bicycle). 

I'm not sure how active tortoises are supposed to be (especially in winter) but he spends most of his time in his hide. Yesterday he came out and enthusiastically ate some squash and banana. Today I came home and his squash and broccoli leaf meal was scattered in his food dish. We've got him a 100 watt bulb for basking, unfortunately a compact UVB bulb is all we have for UVB at the moment (long story short, he was a gift from my girlfriend who was bullied into spending all our money on crap supplies at the pet store, and better supplies are on order)

Until we can get him to the vet this week, is there anything I can do for him? I added an extra heater to his hide spot, so that he doesn't get too cold, but I can't think of anything else to do, other than dab up his snot. :/ I'm really worried about him. Is this sever?

Thank you for any help you can provide v.v


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## Yvonne G (Jan 11, 2012)

Hi Nicky:

Until you can get him to a vet, you should make his habitat warmer, keep him quiet. The open mouth is gasping for breath. You're correct...those symptoms sound like a respiratory infection.


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## ripper7777777 (Jan 11, 2012)

Do you have a small Ice chest to transport him in, you can get heat packs to make the trip with.


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## Momof4 (Jan 11, 2012)

He up some dry rice inside a sock and tie it off. That should stay warm inside the box while in transport. Then ask the vet tech to heat it up before you leave.


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## ascott (Jan 11, 2012)

If it were me I would not let his enclosure fall below 85Â°f and keep a hot spot for basking of 95-100....I would turn off the coil bulb for now....and once you get the uvb replacement bulb then turn it on.....are the snots clear and watery or are they thick and discolored? I would also make sure to keep him hydrated especially with the increased steady temps....if you are misting him I would hold off on that for a bit right now.

IMHO


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## Baoh (Jan 11, 2012)

Keep it hydrated and "hot". Make sure it is eating, too, and not just trodding through the food.


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## Laura (Jan 11, 2012)

still eating is a good sign.. but the other things are not... 
warm.. hydrated... dont disturb him much.. 
Do you have a Walmart near you? they sell things called Hot Hands.. or warmers.. they are little packets you open and put in your pockets.. they warm up.. you can use those for transporting.. 
very important.. to kepp your baby upright.. dont put him on his back or hold funny... he wont be able to breathe well if he is already having trouble.


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## synspyder (Jan 11, 2012)

Thank you all very much for your advice.

We are keeping him as warm as possible, and soaked him yesterday before drying him off and putting him in warmth again. The discharge from his nose is clear and watery. I'm going to pack him in hand warmers to take him to the vet today. I'll keep you all posted on his health.

I hope he pulls through. :/


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## Floof (Jan 11, 2012)

Let us know how he does!!! Poor baby, but at least he has someone who cares watching over him!

I would just like to comment on the diet you mentioned in your first post... Keep fruit to a minimum, cut back on the squash (I try not to do more than once a week, myself), and do more dark leafy greens. Collard greens, Spring Mix (a pre-packaged salad mix of baby lettuces & greens), Turnip greens, endive, and mustard greens, to name a few--even dandelions and other edible weeds from an untreated yard are great food, if they're still alive where you are.


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## SailingMystic (Jan 11, 2012)

I also used a heating rock- my little one almost knew he wanted to use it to feel better. 

This is worth a taxi if you can get one. Just get help as soon as you can...little lungs are fighting to breathe. Turtles will hide their pain well.


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## synspyder (Jan 11, 2012)

Just got back from the vet. The vet was surprised when he saw him. He said he'd never treated a tortoise before, but after a lengthy discussion with someone who had experience, came to the conclusion of keep him warm (most important), feed him well (he gave me a list of good veggies in Japanese) and medicate. He said he could give me the medicine, but he honestly had no idea how to advise I administer it. I've had experience medicating bearded dragons and snakes, but not anything with a shell, so this is going to be interesting. I'm supposed to give him his medicine 2 times a day, so now I'm just waiting for him to get warm enough to be interested in food, wait until he nabs something, and put a drop on what he grabs. He doesn't stick his head out far enough most of the time for me to try to get it into his mouth directly.

Also, he took a big poop at the vet, so I had him tested for parasites and he came up clean. So at least I only have to deal with one medical issue. 

I also bought him a bag of spring greens which he's eying at the moment. Hopefully he gets hungry soon.

Thank you for all the advice! I'll ease off the squash now that I have my list of Japanese options.


**Edit** 

Ok, I tricked him into taking his medicine. I had to do it with a piece of squash, since it's the only thing he's crazy enough about to take out of my hand at the moment. He nabbed the squash, and I followed it with the syringe. He spat a bunch of it out, but I think I managed to get him to take 80% of the dose. I think he's contemplating how to escape now.

I'm keeping him in his little box with hand warmers for now to keep an eye on him and make sure he doesn't run off into the cold side of his tank which we are still working on heating up for him. I'll block that side off when I got to work so he'll have to remain in warmth.

He just discovered the spring greens, and he's eating with gusto! Hopefully this means he's got enough spunk to beat back this infection.


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## lynnedit (Jan 11, 2012)

An appetite is an excellent sign. Keeping him warm as you are doing is key.
Folks will want to know what medication he is receiving, is it something like Baytril?
You can give the med mashed up in a small amount of squash (not more than you think he would eat), wrapped in a small green leaf, like a small burrito. That way he eats the med with his favorite food. Don't give him squash any other time so it is a treat.
Warm soaks are fine, sounds like you are drying him off and sticking him right in the warm area.
(OK to give whatever it takes to get meds down. Otherwise, as Taylor suggests, you can focus more on greens/weeds).

Hope things go well! This is worse than having a human baby sometimes!


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## synspyder (Jan 11, 2012)

lynnedit said:


> An appetite is an excellent sign. Keeping him warm as you are doing is key.
> Folks will want to know what medication he is receiving, is it something like Baytril?
> You can give the med mashed up in a small amount of squash (not more than you think he would eat), wrapped in a small green leaf, like a small burrito. That way he eats the med with his favorite food. Don't give him squash any other time so it is a treat.
> Warm soaks are fine, sounds like you are drying him off and sticking him right in the warm area.
> ...



I honestly couldn't say what the meds are. I live in Japan, and if the medications they give here are even the same as they do in the west, I would only have their Japanese name anyway.

I'm glad he's starting to eat the greens now too. I don't have to worry about him snubbing anything but squash. He didn't touch any of the broccoli leaf I gave him yesterday. After he took that one piece of squash with medication, he ate almost an entire bowl full of spring green. Once we get into a medicine routine, I'll take him off the squash. Fortunately he opens his mouth nice and wide to eat and I can wiggle a syringe in there with his meal. He's gotten used to me dabbing mucus off his nose, so he wasn't too bothered by a syringe hovering near his moth.

He's in the 'cool' side of his tank now which used to be the 'medium' heat area. I've got an electric heating pad wrapped in a towel for him, and a 100 watt bulb heating the warm side. Just waiting on my reptile supply order to ship and we'll have an MVB for him too.

I know what you mean. I was tearing up yesterday, feeling so helpless to do anything for him and my girlfriend was staring at me like I was nuts!


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## Floof (Jan 11, 2012)

So glad he's doing okay. The appetite is definitely a good sign! I agree with Lynne. If it takes a squash treat to get him to take his meds, then have at. Squash isn't terrible, just not good as an every day staple, and his medicine is definitely more important than how much squash is in his diet right now.


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## lynnedit (Jan 11, 2012)

good luck with your little guy and keep us posted!


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## synspyder (Jan 12, 2012)

Came home from work and found him buried under his shredded newspaper in the hot side of the tank. I gave him a little extra warming under the kotatsu (heated table) which got him active and hungry enough to entice him to eat his greens and take his meds. He spent another 15 minutes running (relative turtle speed) back and forth on my lap, nibbling the remaining greens and peering down over my hands. He's got more energy now. He's walking on his toes now, as opposed to just crawling along, and he's extending his neck fully out to look around. He's still blowing a bubbles, but he's looking much better than last night, and he's taking his meds like a trooper. I was so worried about that @[email protected]

It's nice that he's not totally head shy. I can wipe his nose and follow his mouth with a syringe and he's fine with it. He's getting better with me moving around too.


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## Laura (Jan 12, 2012)

carefull having him out on your lap.. acciedental falling.. and cooler then he shouldbe...
glad to hear his is active!


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## synspyder (Jan 12, 2012)

I have my hands around him so he won't fall, and we are under the heated table, which is covered with a blanket and keeps it a pretty constant 95 degrees. When he gets active, I put him on the top of the blanket, on my lap, and he motors around while I watch him. When he gets to my hand, he puts his front legs over my fingers and stretches his neck out to look around, then goes back to the other side.

When he slows down again, I put him under the blanket and he falls asleep on my thigh. 

Right now he's just waking up. I'll give him his meds again in a few minutes. Thank you for all your help. I feel much better for all this advice and knowledge ^_^


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## lynnedit (Jan 12, 2012)

Thanks for the update! It is good he is used to you, as that does make it easier to give medication. As long as he eats some, stays warm, hydrated and takes his med, hopefully he will continue to get better.


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## Morty the Torty (Jan 12, 2012)

Yay! Glad to hear he's feeling better he's lucky to have you around!


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## Maggie Cummings (Jan 12, 2012)

You can use a black light bulb on the cool side to warm it up if you can get them there. Tortoises can't see that color spectrum so they are good for heating at night. Good luck with him, it sounds like he is getting better. Don't forget to give him warm soaks daily...


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## synspyder (Jan 12, 2012)

Thank you!

He was being stubborn today, wouldn't open up for any greens. I thought I'd have to try and grab his head, but he finally opened up for some squash and I got him then X3 He wandered around under the kotatsu for a while after that, now he's back in his bookshelf burying himself. 

He's still blowing bubbles, but it doesn't look like he's struggling to breathe quite as much as he did before, and he hasn't been gaping as much. Hopefully a steady increase in temps will prop him up until the meds have a chance to kill the illness.

I'm so happy to have him. He's such a cute little guy!



maggie3fan said:


> You can use a black light bulb on the cool side to warm it up if you can get them there. Tortoises can't see that color spectrum so they are good for heating at night. Good luck with him, it sounds like he is getting better. Don't forget to give him warm soaks daily...



Come next pay day I'm taking a trip to the pet store to see if they sell black lights / CHE. If not, I'll place another order on reptile supply. I'm not sure if they have black lights. They possibly have red lights. Is that too bright for a tort?


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## SailingMystic (Jan 13, 2012)

synspyder said:


> Came home from work and found him buried under his shredded newspaper in the hot side of the tank. I gave him a little extra warming under the kotatsu (heated table) which got him active and hungry enough to entice him to eat his greens and take his meds. He spent another 15 minutes running (relative turtle speed) back and forth on my lap, nibbling the remaining greens and peering down over my hands. He's got more energy now. He's walking on his toes now, as opposed to just crawling along, and he's extending his neck fully out to look around. He's still blowing a bubbles, but he's looking much better than last night, and he's taking his meds like a trooper. I was so worried about that @[email protected]
> 
> It's nice that he's not totally head shy. I can wipe his nose and follow his mouth with a syringe and he's fine with it. He's getting better with me moving around too.



It's great to hear how curious he is and how well he's doing -- but we need those bubbles to go away. It may take a while-- keep sharing! He's lucky to have you looking out for him


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## synspyder (Jan 13, 2012)

Wah~! I feel like such a horrid tortoise mom  Punli didn't have much of an appetite tonight (or possibly he's just gotten wise to the fact that when he takes a bite, I give him medicine) so I had to do things the hard way. My girlfriend held his front legs and as I tried to pin his head but he's so little and squirmy! T.T I was terrified I was going to hurt him! I finally got him to open his mouth after much poking and wiggling and he looked so upset and ran away as fast as his little legs could carry him as soon as he was on the ground. He's all tucked into his shell against my leg now under the heated table. v.v It's so hard sometimes, having to medicate animals when you can't communicate how you're doing this not to be mean but to help them get well T.T The betrayal look kills 

Hopefully tomorrow is better. This is much easier with bearded dragons. ^^;


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## lynnedit (Jan 13, 2012)

Can you mix the med in a small amount of squash or canned pumpkin rolled in a small leaf? Doesn't matter how the med goes down, in food or straight.
The other way to do it is to drizzle a few drops of apple juice or a few tiny pieces of chopped up apple in the squash (don't make the squash runny, just to sweeten it) and roll it in a leaf. Don't make it a big serving, just enough to mix the med in.
They tend to like red things, so using a piece of a radicchio leave might work, if you have that there. Or if you can get strawberries, mash that up, add med and roll into leaf.
(they shouldn't usually have fruit or sweet things much at all, but in the case of giving meds... all bets are off).
That way, you might be able to avoid having to force him to take it, although ultimately it is necessary of course, however you do it!


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## Floof (Jan 13, 2012)

Ohh, sorry to hear he's started wising up! Yes, it's definitely SO much easier to medicate bearded dragons. They don't have a shell to hide in! Lol!


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## synspyder (Jan 13, 2012)

Ok, I'll try a mashed fruit/veggie and leaf trick today. Is it ok to cook the squash a little to soften it?


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## Floof (Jan 13, 2012)

synspyder said:


> Ok, I'll try a mashed fruit/veggie and leaf trick today. Is it ok to cook the squash a little to soften it?



Yes, that's perfectly fine. I actually make it a habit of softening squash, since my little Leopard and my dragon have trouble with the hard, raw stuff. Throw it in a bowl of water, put it in the microwave, and cook until it's just soft enough to mash.

Or get something like organic canned pumpkin and use that instead.


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## synspyder (Jan 13, 2012)

Today was a better day than yesterday. I warmed him up under the heated table, then gave him a soak and he was pretty keen on drinking all the water he could (he didn't drink anything yesterday when I soaked him). 

Then I dried him off and put him back under the table for another 20 minutes, then brought him out again and left some greens for him, and he didn't hesitate, but ate at once, so I got the meds in him really easy. He then went into 'eat all the things' mode, and cut a path of destruction across the greens I had over my lap.

When he was done, he climbed to the top of the table and nabbed the squash I had there in case he wouldn't eat his greens. Crafty little guy! He's back in his bookshelf now for a nap. Hopefully tonights dose goes just as smoothly.


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## synspyder (Jan 14, 2012)

Punli's gotten so used to having a syringe with his dinner that tonight he tried to eat the syringe before he went for the greens. Maybe he just wanted to get the nastiness out of the way, but it certainly made giving him his meds easier.

As of today, he's still bubbling, bobbing in and out and squeaking, but he's still eating, drinking and active. So we'll keep working.


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## SailingMystic (Jan 14, 2012)

synspyder said:


> Punli's gotten so used to having a syringe with his dinner that tonight he tried to eat the syringe before he went for the greens. Maybe he just wanted to get the nastiness out of the way, but it certainly made giving him his meds easier.
> 
> As of today, he's still bubbling, bobbing in and out and squeaking, but he's still eating, drinking and active. So we'll keep working.



Stay focused. I have lost turtles who seemed to be recovering. ESP when they suddenly appear well. You are doing a great job!! Follow up with a vet soon-- just to check in...


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## synspyder (Jan 14, 2012)

Unfortunately our vet isn't much of a herp vet. The best he could do for us was consult a book and give us the medication. I'll keep medicating him until the end of his run, and if he hasn't shown any improvement by then, I'll go back to the vet and maybe try to translate some of the American medication names with him to see if we can find something more effective in Japan.


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## SailingMystic (Jan 14, 2012)

If you feel stuck or want a good bet to chat with I have one I recommend -- just reach out to me off line. I will say I love reading your updates!! I think your on track for sure.


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## synspyder (Jan 14, 2012)

Thank you so much! That would be a great resource if this doesn't work for me. I'll keep up with the updates until he's healthy again. He seems a little better today. Opened his eyes more quickly than previous day, and he sounds better, less of a wet squeak and more of a drier wheeze. He also had less bubbles while I held him. He's under the heated table warming up now for food and meds. Last night it took him over an hour to find a place where he wanted to finally sleep, so he's certainly keeping more energy through the day!


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## synspyder (Jan 15, 2012)

Tonight, Punli seemed much improved. He wasn't so wet around the nose, wasn't making as many noises, and wasn't bobbing for breath or gaping as much as he has previously. He even had enough energy to run around the room exploring (after he's been under the heated table I let him wander a bit to get some fresh air and work some of the heat out before putting him back in his viv). Hopefully this means the beginning of his recovery. Now the only thing I'll need to stop completely worrying about his health is for the MVB and supplements to ship!


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## synspyder (Jan 18, 2012)

Punli has been wising up to all of my medicine application tricks and has become cautious of food offered by me. To combat this, I've started to wrap the tip of the syringe in a nice, juicy green leaf and when he goes for a bite... BAM! Medicine. 

Still bubbling a little, though he seems better today. We'll keeping fighting! >.O


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## lynnedit (Jan 18, 2012)

Hang in there, certainly seems he is going in the right direction! It sounds like it can be a long haul.


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## blastoise91 (Jan 18, 2012)

Bobbing for breath? Do they not normally bob so much? My little guy has made a few bubbles over the last few days and a pop noise maybe once a few minutes. Im worries hes getting sick. But he bobs kind of often. Not so often wen he is alone so i figured hes a silly tortoise just lookin around wen he is out but this kinda makes me worry a little..


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## synspyder (Jan 18, 2012)

I'm not qualified to give an informed answer aside from I read that a tortoise laboring for breath can sometimes pull it's head and front legs in and out of it's shell. When I first saw him doing it (along with the bubbles and the wheezes) I didn't think it was a normal activity. It just looked -wrong- like, beyond a tortoise being shy and creeping in and out of its shell. It was like a jerking in and out with head and legs.

Again, not qualified to actually say with certainty it was bad, or what your tort does is the same, just my observation.

Today, though, Punli is looking great! No discharge from his nose or eyes (he used to blink a lot and it looked like he always had mucus on his eyes). He isn't bobbing so much, not a single wheeze, and only a few very faint ticks when I hold him close to my ear. In fact, he was so hungry this morning that he ate some tissue paper before I got him his greens! Last night he spent 5 minutes gulping down water (I've been soaking him in warm water every night and he's gradually taken more and more).

I'm going to take him to the end of his medication run, and hopefully that clears him out for good! I'm sure he'll be happy for it too. I know I'm sure relieved


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## blastoise91 (Jan 18, 2012)

Yes i understand but thank u for a better description. I think hes shy. No sharp movements like that. My first tortoise so idk what 'normal' is (to an extent).

Faint ticks is kinda like what mine does if i hold it very close i can barely hear it. But im very happy to hear The progress. That makes me so happy!! specially being such a turnaround.


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## lynnedit (Jan 18, 2012)

That is wonderful news!!!! You are very wise to finish all of his meds, to the end.
(Torts do move their heads in and out when they breathe, using their legs and head as a bellows to push the air in and out.)


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## synspyder (Jan 19, 2012)

Thank you for that clarification, Lynn! I would have continued to think he couldn't breathe. 

He's still got no bubbles, though he could heard him breathing, it was a very dry sound, not at all wet. I'm so relieved!


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## blastoise91 (Jan 19, 2012)

Yes yes thank you. This is my first tort let alone it being a baby so ive no ide what 'normal' behavior is yet. lol i know. im such a newbie. But gotta start somewhere.

And thats amazing your tort is finally almost tip top again! My heart sunk reading this thread but changed to a huge smile the more i read.


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## lynnedit (Jan 20, 2012)

There is a lot to learn! Even what is normal or not!
So if the bubbly nose is clearing, wheezing is gone, and the tortoise isn't opening/shutting mouth like gasping or yawning, then your little guy is getting better indeed!
Keep up your vigilance. He will still need close care.
Great job.


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## Yvonne G (Jan 20, 2012)

It is common to see baby tortoises front legs move with the breathing. They're not sick...that's normal breathing.

If your baby takes a turn for the worse and you'd like to try the medication of choice for tortoise respiratory infection, tell your vet that we use enroflaxin (common name - Baytril). It comes in different strengths, so he needs to talk to someone who knows the antibiotic before prescribing it.


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## synspyder (Jan 28, 2012)

Ok, last update.

Punli is 100% better now! No more bubbling or gasping for breath. Occasionally he will still making a ticking noise occasionally, but I can't see any signs of wetness of difficulty breathing, his appetite, strength and energy are all good. Vet gives him an all clear. yay for baby Punli!

Still waiting on my order from reptile supply though :/


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## lynnedit (Jan 28, 2012)

Noooo! Not last update until we see one more pic of the little guy...what a great story.

How long has it been since you ordered through reptile supply? Can you contest it through your credit card or Paypal (can't remember details)?


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## synspyder (Jan 28, 2012)

Well, at least the last update about him being sick  I'm sure there will be plenty of Punli stories to come, and pictures.

I just checked my email and they were holding my order because I ordered the wrong fixture with the MVB. Nice of them not to just mail me incompatible products and take my money  But that's where the delay came from.


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## lynnedit (Jan 28, 2012)

Oh good! And glad to know there will be more pics...


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## SailingMystic (Jan 28, 2012)

synspyder said:


> Ok, last update.
> 
> Punli is 100% better now! No more bubbling or gasping for breath. Occasionally he will still making a ticking noise occasionally, but I can't see any signs of wetness of difficulty breathing, his appetite, strength and energy are all good. Vet gives him an all clear. yay for baby Punli!
> 
> Still waiting on my order from reptile supply though :/



Way to go!!  !!! Yippeee !! You are the best! Thanks for being so dedicated to this little one in his time of need. !! Be sure to celebrate with a special treat too


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