# Plan for tortoises



## 34KING18 (Jun 18, 2012)

Hey guys! I'm pretty new to the site and everything but I did some research and these are the things that I want to buy for my russian tortoise that I MAY be getting. There are link's included to all the things that I want to buy and prices and you can just copy and paste them into the url box and see what it is. It would be great if you guys could give me some feedback if I need more stuff, less stuff, etc. ( One thing, in the double pack of lightbulbs, one lightbulb goes to one clamp light while the other bulb goes to the oher clamp light. ) And if you guys know better places were I can find cheaper prices for the sae EXACT items that would be amazing! Thank you ! 

Russian Tortoise 

Tank (36 x 18 x 19): $ 55 

Tortoise: $ 80 http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3893725

Substrate: $ 21.99 http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752663

Hide: $ 14.99 http://www.petco.com/product/102891...Turtles.aspx?Ntt=half log&OneResultRedirect=1

Plants: $ 7.66 http://www.petco.com/product/108128/Exo-Terra-Silk-Amapallo-Jungle-Plant.aspx?CoreCat=OnSiteSearch

Food Dish: $ 6.99 http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=11147181

Water Dish: $ 17.99 http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3973411

Screen: $ 23.38 http://www.amazon.com/dp/B003E2MDK6/?tag=exoticpetnetw-20

Clamp Light: $ 15.29 (10 inch diameter ) http://www.petco.com/product/9469/Flukers-Clamp-Lamps.aspx?CoreCat=OnSiteSearch

Light bulb: $ 34.00 http://www.petco.com/product/111469...eat-Lamp-Value-Pack.aspx?CoreCat=OnSiteSearch

Clamp light: $ 12.74 ( 8.5 inch diameter ) http://www.petco.com/product/9469/Flukers-Clamp-Lamps.aspx?CoreCat=OnSiteSearch

Food: $ 12.99
http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=12620186&lmdn=Pet+Type


----------



## wellington (Jun 18, 2012)

The light bulbs are no good. The coil type can cause eye damage, even blindness. Go with a CHE-ceramic heat emitter and either a MVB-mercury vapor bulb,give heat and UVB/UVA or a fluorescent 10.0 or 5.0 UVB bulb. I don't like the substrate, but that's me. See what others have to say on that.
Hello and WELCOME.


----------



## JoesMum (Jun 18, 2012)

*UVB options:*
MVB which gives basking heat as well - lasts 9 months I think
Or
Tube UVB which doesnt do heat - lasts 6 months

Coil UVB not recommended due to eye damage concerns.

*Basking options:*
MVB above
Standard household spot lamp (not low energy)
CHE - doesnt give out light, but useful for extra warmth overnight when all lights should be off.


----------



## StudentoftheReptile (Jun 18, 2012)

LAMP: Ceramic Dome lamp from Lowe's - $12.23 - http://www.lowes.com/pd_203219-1373...L=?Ns=p_product_qty_sales_dollar|1&facetInfo=

SUBSTRATE: 2 cu. Ft bag of Cypress mulch from Home Depot - $2.75 - http://www.homedepot.com/Outdoors-G...10053&langId=-1&keyword=cypress&storeId=10051

ZooMed Light stand - $23 - http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000255OUO/?tag=exoticpetnetw-20

ZooMed ceramic heat emitter - $20 - http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0002AQCPK/?tag=exoticpetnetw-20
----------
You can get a florescent light fixture almost anywhere and just get a UVB bulb from Amazon or the pet store. Same goes for food and water bowls, as well as decorations. You can go to the crafts section of Walmart for artificial plants, or the garden section for real ones. (or Lowe's or Home Depot). You can even get a large storage bin or tub to keep it in.

Not counting the tortoise itself, you can probably save $100 if you shop right. No need to go to the pet store and pay 2x as much for stuff just because it has a reptile on the packaging or label.


----------



## 34KING18 (Jun 18, 2012)

This is a revised version of my supplies? Anything else you think I could change or get for cheaper? 

Russian Tortoise 

Tank (36 x 18 x 19): $ 55 

Tortoise: $ 80 http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3893725

Substrate: $ 2.75 http://www.homedepot.com/Outdoors-G...87f579&cj=true&cm_mmc=CJ-_-5320196-_-11013433


Hide: $ 14.99 http://www.petco.com/product/102891...Turtles.aspx?Ntt=half log&OneResultRedirect=1

Plants: $ 7.66 http://www.petco.com/product/108128/Exo-Terra-Silk-Amapallo-Jungle-Plant.aspx?CoreCat=OnSiteSearch

Food Dish: $ 6.99 http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=11147181

Water Dish: $ 17.99 http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3973411

Screen: $ 23.38 http://www.amazon.com/dp/B003E2MDK6/?tag=exoticpetnetw-20

Clamp Light: $ 15.29 (10 inch diameter ) http://www.petco.com/product/9469/Flukers-Clamp-Lamps.aspx?CoreCat=OnSiteSearch

Light bulb: $ 39.99 http://www.petco.com/product/111476...orescent-Combo-Pack.aspx?CoreCat=OnSiteSearch


Clamp light: $ 12.74 ( 8.5 inch diameter ) http://www.petco.com/product/9469/Flukers-Clamp-Lamps.aspx?CoreCat=OnSiteSearch


Zoo Med Reptile Lamp Stand, Full Size: $ 45.44 (2 stands) 
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000255OUO/?tag=exoticpetnetw-20


Food: $ 12.99
http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=12620186&lmdn=Pet+Type


----------



## JoesMum (Jun 18, 2012)

The lighting pack is a no-no. The UVB coil type lamp can harm eyes. Get a tube or an MVB. 

If you get a tube, use an ordinary household spot for basking. It's cheaper and just as effective!

Why use silk plants when real ones allow natural browsing?

Fruit mix is also wrong for a Russian, they can't digest sugars properly. Green leaves are the best diet. Use pellets a couple of times a week if you need to, Mazuri or Komodo


----------



## dmmj (Jun 18, 2012)

The water and food dish should be cheaper at a home improvement store.


----------



## JoesMum (Jun 18, 2012)

Actually, a plain piece of slate or sandstone makes a great feed tray and it helps wear the beak down.


----------



## 34KING18 (Jun 18, 2012)

So I took all the things that you guys said and I put it into this revised version. I know I can find some cheaper stuff somewhere but do you think this is a good place to start? One question : is there a place to get cheaper mercury-vapor bulbs? Thanks guys for you support and helping me out!

Russian Tortoise 

Tank (36 x 18 x 19): $ 55 

Tortoise: $ 80 http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3893725

Substrate: $ 2.75 http://www.homedepot.com/Outdoors-G...87f579&cj=true&cm_mmc=CJ-_-5320196-_-11013433


Hide: $ 14.99 http://www.petco.com/product/102891...Turtles.aspx?Ntt=half log&OneResultRedirect=1

Plants: $ 7.66 http://www.petco.com/product/108128/Exo-Terra-Silk-Amapallo-Jungle-Plant.aspx?CoreCat=OnSiteSearch

Food Dish: Piece of slate 

Water Dish: $ 17.99 http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3973411

Screen: $ 23.38 http://www.amazon.com/dp/B003E2MDK6/?tag=exoticpetnetw-20

Clamp Light: $ 15.29 (10 inch diameter ) http://www.petco.com/product/9469/Flukers-Clamp-Lamps.aspx?CoreCat=OnSiteSearch

Light bulb: $ 67.99 http://www.petco.com/product/12129/...mp.aspx?Ntt=mercury vapor&OneResultRedirect=1

Zoo Med Reptile Lamp Stand, Full Size: $ 22.72 
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000255OUO/?tag=exoticpetnetw-20


----------



## dmmj (Jun 18, 2012)

Please don't spend 17 dollars on a water dish.


----------



## 34KING18 (Jun 18, 2012)

What would be better but still the same size and depth? And i really want it to look natural, not man-made like plastic. Any ideas??


----------



## JoesMum (Jun 18, 2012)

34KING18 said:


> What would be better?



A shallow terracotta plant saucer. It's not about 'looks', it's about what's easiest fir your tort to soak and drink in.


----------



## Tom (Jun 18, 2012)

-The tank is too small for a 4"+ Russian.
-They can drown in those water bowls and the food bowls are difficult for them to get in and out of. You will be much better off with some cheap terra cotta plant saucers for both food and water.
-The screen top will limit the height and effectiveness of your bulbs. To get your temps correct you will need to raise or lower your fixtures.
-My tortoises try to eat those plastic plants. Use them carefully if you use them.
-That food is not appropriate for a Russian and I wouldn't feed it to a redfoot (pictured on the label) either. They need to eat broadleaf weeds. You can use grocery store leafy greens too, but wild stuff is better and it's free.
-Russians sold at the chain stores are mostly wild caught. The journey here is VERY stressful and they are usually full of parasites. Many of them adjust and do fine, but many of them die and infect other tortoises on their way out. You'd be much better off getting a captive hatched baby or juvenile from one of the many reputable members here on the forum.
-You've put a lot of time, effort and thought into this indoor enclosure, but russians do best outdoors. You ought to be building a secure, safe, well planted outdoor enclosure and plan on using the indoors for overnight or inclement weather.


----------



## pinkpirate (Jun 18, 2012)

I use a piece of slate to feed on and a terra cotta saucer for water. I use live plants in my indoor and outdoor enclosures so that they are safe for my baby to eat.


----------



## 34KING18 (Jun 18, 2012)

So i changed the food dish, water dish, substrate, light bulbs, clamp lights and got a stand for the clamp light. I think I got it how it should be. I am not able to keep my tortoises outside because there are so many coyotes, foxes etc that if you leave your cat outside throught night, you never see it again. It's a real problem in my city. Well this is the revised version and I hope it will be the last becuase I took all your advice. Here you go : 


Tank (36 x 18 x 19): $ 55 

Tortoise: $ 80 http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3893725

Substrate: $ 2.75 http://www.homedepot.com/Outdoors-G...87f579&cj=true&cm_mmc=CJ-_-5320196-_-11013433

Hide: $ 14.99 http://www.petco.com/product/102891...Turtles.aspx?Ntt=half log&OneResultRedirect=1

Plants: $ 7.66 http://www.petco.com/product/108128/Exo-Terra-Silk-Amapallo-Jungle-Plant.aspx?CoreCat=OnSiteSearch

Food Dish: Piece of slate 

Water Dish: $ 6.98 
http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc...&langId=-1&keyword=plant+saucer&storeId=10051

Screen: $ 23.38 http://www.amazon.com/dp/B003E2MDK6/?tag=exoticpetnetw-20

Clamp Light: $ 15.29 (10 inch diameter ) http://www.petco.com/product/9469/Flukers-Clamp-Lamps.aspx?CoreCat=OnSiteSearch

Light bulb: $ 67.99 http://www.petco.com/product/12129/...mp.aspx?Ntt=mercury vapor&OneResultRedirect=1


Zoo Med Reptile Lamp Stand, Full Size: $ 22.72 
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000255OUO/?tag=exoticpetnetw-20


----------



## dmmj (Jun 18, 2012)

I know you are gonna hate us, but for a WC pet store russian, you will need to include a vet visit.


----------



## 34KING18 (Jun 18, 2012)

Do you think this is all good or do I need other stuff ?



dmmj said:



> I know you are gonna hate us, but for a WC pet store russian, you will need to include a vet visit.



How much do they cost? ( the vet visit )


----------



## Tom (Jun 18, 2012)

Every city in America is full of cat eating coyotes, raccoons, hawks, etc... Mine sure is. The idea is to build a secure enclosure with a wire covered top and let your tortoise be outside with lots of space and grazing whenever the weather permits.

Living in a 3' long tank indoors all the time is no life for a tortoise. Fine to start a baby for a few months that way, but not for juveniles or adults. Might not be what you want to hear, but better you hear it now than after you already have a tortoise and realize you can't or won't give it what it needs.


----------



## StudentoftheReptile (Jun 19, 2012)

Just...avoid Petco...they apparently have the most expensive...everything.
-----

Powersun Light bulb - $37.71 - http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0002AQDJK/?tag=exoticpetnetw-20
--------
*Lose the screen top, you don't need it.*
- the tortoise isn't going to climb out
- you have the stand for the clamp lights
- the screen will filter out UVB rays.
------------

Unless you're getting a baby Russian (doubtful if you're getting WC), that hide log is gonna be too small for an adult. You can DEFINITELY find or create something better and cheaper. Look in the Tortoise Enclosures of this site for ideas.
-------
Like Tom said, lose the fake plants. Go to a local plant nursery, or the Garden center at Lowe's/Home Depot, and see what they have. Some safe live plant ideas are: hosta, hibiscus, rose of sharon, viola, mulberry.
------
What happened to that $12 dome fixture I suggested from Lowe's? It'll save you at least a few bucks. .


----------



## kurmaraja12 (Jun 19, 2012)

I use a half broken terra cotta pot for my hide. Ceramics are good for keeping heat and distributing it. If you can't find a broken one, just go to Wallyworld or home depot and get a large one and bury it a bit


----------



## Yvonne G (Jun 19, 2012)

Hi David:

I also have marauding hunters roaming my neighborhood, and yet, all my tortoises live outside. As long as you either bring the tortoise in at night, or provide a safe and secure nighttime hiding place, your tortoise will be fine outside. The type of hunters that you've described usually hunt at night. During the day your tortoise will be fine outside. Please reconsider this. Its much cheaper in the long run to let your tortoise be a tortoise, and live outside.


----------



## Morty the Torty (Jun 19, 2012)

I just bought a $2 plant pot from Home Depot and put it on its side as a hide Morty keeps climbing the log and falling off so I had to take it out.

I do love that you're putting the links and prices on here. That means you're really putting a lot of thought into this!


----------



## chase thorn (Jun 19, 2012)

Amazon is amazing! Petco torts are risky and maybe consider ordering a tort from Tortoise supply or Arizona tortoise compound.


----------



## JoesMum (Jun 19, 2012)

I don't want to derail this thread, but please let Morty climb and fall off things. The sooner he works out how to fall off in a controlled manner the better... and this requires practice.

if you're going to be out for more than hour or two you may want to take it out, but otherwise leave it there!


----------



## chase thorn (Jun 19, 2012)

My Russian set up...

Large animal trough from a feed store measures 12H x 31W x 52L
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000NPBLAU/?tag=exoticpetnetw-20
2 bags of cypress & 1 brick of coco coir
http://www.petco.com/product/6347/Zoo-Med-Forest-Floor-Bedding.aspx
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0010OSIHW/?tag=exoticpetnetw-20
1 8" pot saucer from Lowes for $7.00
Lamp that hangs 12" from substrate 
http://www.petco.com/product/9469/F..._-ProductDetail_3-_-Fluker's Clamp Lamps-9469
100w Zoo med powersun (I have 2 of these and absolutely love them!)
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0002AQDJK/?tag=exoticpetnetw-20
Half log, size Xlarge for hide.
Calcium from petco
Small childs plastic plate for food. Nice and flat and easy to clean
Food that I grow and that is in the store bought lettuce boxes called spring mix is also what I use.
Hope this helps! 
DO NOT for get to get a thermometer or 2...or 3! 
Add small flat rocks for the little one to climb on as well!

This is just my setup that you may use as an example. Mine is simple yet a stress-free area for my tort and he loves it!


----------



## yuri2012 (Jun 19, 2012)

The main piece is that the enclosure is too small for your Russian tortoise. Think about getting a larger container at least 4 feet by 3 feet. You can build it yourself or take the lazy way out and buy pre-made enclosures which can cost between $80-$160. If you don't care how your home looks to guests and the people you live with then feel free to use a Rubbermaid tub or something less cosmetically appealing.


----------



## chase thorn (Jun 19, 2012)

Yes, Russians may seem small and may never get much larger than when you get it, but they are very active and do need a large enclosure. Mine stays inside most of the year until mid summer. CO does not stay as warm as he would like!


----------



## 34KING18 (Jun 19, 2012)

I can't thank you guys enough for helping me with my list of supplies. Sorry to tell you this guys, but I don't have space for those rubber enclosures and the glass tank is the best fit for me and my house. Sorry if that offends anyone but I'm sorry. I have a couple questions: 

Is the substrate that I picked good for a russian tortoise?

If i put half of the pot in the substrate will the turtle still have space or will it be to crammed for him?

Do tortoises need deep water dishes or is the terra cotta saucer good for them?

Is the basking light that I picked for them good?

Does the basking light need to be uvb and uva or can it just give off heat and light?

Do the tortoises need a spot in the tank to go under a uvb light or can i put one so the whole tank is kind of like in a uvb light?

Do the powersun mercury-vapor bulbs give off uva and uvb light?

Thanks guys for helping me so much with this list and here is it AGAIN revised: 



Tank (36 x 18 x 19): $ 55 

Tortoise: $ 80 http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3893725

Substrate: $ 2.75 http://www.homedepot.com/Outdoors-G...87f579&cj=true&cm_mmc=CJ-_-5320196-_-11013433

Hide: $ 19.98 http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc...&keyword=terra+cotta+flower+pot&storeId=10051

Plants: $ 7.66 http://www.petco.com/product/108128/Exo-Terra-Silk-Amapallo-Jungle-Plant.aspx?CoreCat=OnSiteSearch

Food Dish: Piece of slate 

Water Dish: $ 6.98 
http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc...&langId=-1&keyword=plant+saucer&storeId=10051

Clamp Light: $ 12.74 (8.5 inch diameter) http://www.petco.com/product/9469/Flukers-Clamp-Lamps.aspx?CoreCat=OnSiteSearch

Basking Light: $ 8.39
http://www.petco.com/product/4969/Z...ile_1-_-Zoo Med Repti Basking Spot Lamps-4969

Clamp Light: $15.29 ( 10 inch diameter ) 
http://www.petco.com/product/9469/Flukers-Clamp-Lamps.aspx?CoreCat=OnSiteSearch

Light bulb: $ 37.04 http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0002AQDJK/?tag=exoticpetnetw-20

Zoo Med Reptile Lamp Stand, Full Size: $ 44.54 (x 2) 
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000255OUO/?tag=exoticpetnetw-20


----------



## JoesMum (Jun 19, 2012)

34KING18 said:


> I can't thank you guys enough for helping me with my list of supplies. Sorry to tell you this guys, but I don't have space for those rubber enclosures and the glass tank is the best fit for me and my house. Sorry if that offends anyone but I'm sorry.



I'm sorry, but caring for a pet means catering for its needs. A tortoise, especially a Russian needs space. If you cannot provide that space, please do not get one. It would be cruel to do so.


----------



## 34KING18 (Jun 19, 2012)

I'll think about the rubber enclosure thing but can you answer my questions please? ( Not trying to sound rude )


----------



## StudentoftheReptile (Jun 19, 2012)

34KING18 said:


> Is the substrate that I picked good for a russian tortoise?



not an expert on Russians, but I would think its a good start. You can always supplement it with coconut coir (this can be purchased thru various online vendors).



> If i put half of the pot in the substrate will the turtle still have space or will it be to crammed for him?



Depends on the size of the pot and the size of the tortoise.



> Do tortoises need deep water dishes or is the terra cotta saucer good for them?



I would say, deep enough for them to keep their plastron on the bottom while not straining their head to stay above the surface.



> Do the tortoises need a spot in the tank to go under a uvb light or can i put one so the whole tank is kind of like in a uvb light?



It depends on the lighting situation. If you use the Mercury Vapor Bulbs (the ZooMed powerSun), that is basically a basking bulb AND a UV light in one, so it should be on one side. If you use a typical tube florescent bulb for UV, and just have a "regular" basking bulb for heat, then you can place it in the middle.

The main thing is that you want a temperature gradient within the enclosure: i.e. a cool side and a warm side.




> Is the basking light that I picked for them good?
> 
> Does the basking light need to be uvb and uva or can it just give off heat and light?





> Do the powersun mercury-vapor bulbs give off uva and uvb light?



Yes, the mercury vapor bulb (MVB) doubles as heat bulbs and UV bulb. Depending on your temperature situation, you may not need the other basking light.


Which reminds me....You NEED to get one of these:

Temperature Gun - $35 - http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0009OBFW4/?tag=exoticpetnetw-20

Anyone who keeps reptiles should have one. Period. NO excuses.


----------



## 34KING18 (Jun 19, 2012)

Thank you for replying very quickly. I'll look into the temperature gun. With the lighting, if I put the basking light on the right side of the tank so that all the light is concentrated in one spot in the tank, could i put the mvb bulb in the middle so that it lights up my whole entire tank so my tortoise gets uvb and uva rays all the time with a little heat also?


----------



## StudentoftheReptile (Jun 19, 2012)

34KING18 said:


> Thank you for replying very quickly. I'll look into the temperature gun. With the lighting, if I put the basking light on the right side of the tank so that all the light is concentrated in one spot in the tank, could i put the mvb bulb in the middle so that it lights up my whole entire tank so my tortoise gets uvb and uva rays all the time with a little heat also?



That is something only a temp gun will tell you.


----------



## 34KING18 (Jun 19, 2012)

Haha i WILL get the temperature gun but do i have the uva/uvb lights in the right spots and the basking light?

Does the basking light need uva/uvb rays or can it just be a lamp that gives off heat?


----------



## StudentoftheReptile (Jun 19, 2012)

34KING18 said:


> Haha i WILL get the temperature gun but do i have the uva/uvb lights in the right spots and the basking light?



The basking light should be on one end of the enclosure. This end will serve as the "warm" end.

Personally, I think you would be fine just using the PowerSun MVB on one side and use no other lighting. As I said before, that bulb doubles as a basking light and a UV light. Simply have it on a timer and leave it on for 12 hours a day. Russian tortoises come from a temperate climate similar to North America, and can tolerate nighttime drops. Hopefully, someone experienced in keeping Russians indoors can expand and add to this. But for now, you would just ONE light and only have it on ONE side of the cage.



> Does the basking light need uva/uvb rays or can it just be a lamp that gives off heat?



I believe I already answered this. If you have another lamp that gives off UV rays (either the MVB powersun or a tube floresecent fixture), the basking light does not have to provide UVB/UVA rays. Basically, there's no need to have two UV lights (unless you just have a HUGE indoor enclosure!).

But as I stated above, if you end up only using the PowerSun MVB, the point is moot, as you have one light that has both.


----------



## 34KING18 (Jun 19, 2012)

Wouldn't it look bad with one side lit up and one side dark ? plus, wouldn't the tortoises need the whole tank lit up so that it simulates daytime?


----------



## JoesMum (Jun 19, 2012)

34KING18 said:


> Wouldn't it look bad with one side lit up and one side dark ? plus, wouldn't the tortoises need the whole tank lit up so that it simulates daytime?



Sorry, I haven't been ignoring you. I had to cook dinner and there's the small matter of England v Ukraine to watch on TV ... Football ... Proper football with a round ball  

You do need to maintain a good light level, but you'll be surprised how much light you will get from the fixtures you have plus the light in the room.


----------



## 34KING18 (Jun 19, 2012)

Thank you for replying. No rush here. England vs. Ukraine was on ? I thought it was tommorow. Any way , do you think my supply list is fit for a russian tortoise ?


----------



## ShervyBaby (Jun 19, 2012)

34KING18 said:


> Thank you for replying. No rush here. England vs. Ukraine was on ? I thought it was tommorow. Any way , do you think my supply list is fit for a russian tortoise ?



Why would you listen to everything everyone has told you here and get everything they suggested yet NOT get a proper enclosure for it? That's just not smart.


----------



## StudentoftheReptile (Jun 19, 2012)

ShervyBaby said:


> 34KING18 said:
> 
> 
> > Thank you for replying. No rush here. England vs. Ukraine was on ? I thought it was tommorow. Any way , do you think my supply list is fit for a russian tortoise ?
> ...



Indeed. It would seem that all the money you're saving by buying some of this stuff elsewhere besides the pet store, you could put toward a bigger, better enclosure.


----------



## JoesMum (Jun 19, 2012)

34KING18 said:


> Thank you for replying. No rush here. England vs. Ukraine was on ? I thought it was tommorow. Any way , do you think my supply list is fit for a russian tortoise ?



I can't quite we believe we won that match! Full time now. Italy on Saturday next 

Right, back to tortoises! Your supply list is OK, but I reiterate that your tort will need space; lots of it. You can't stop a Russian's desire to roam and if you can't give it adequate space due to constraints in your home, then you should really consider a different pet.


----------



## 34KING18 (Jun 19, 2012)

So everything on my supply list is good for the tortoise except for my tank?


----------



## Tom (Jun 19, 2012)

A couple of other thoughts...

If you are using a MVB over one end, there is no reason you can't hook up a fluorescent tube too, to give everything more light.

Second thing: if your tortoise is getting direct natural sunlight two or three times a week, you don't need any expensive artificial UV bulbs in your indoor set up. You could simply use a regular incandescent flood bulb in this case.



And JoesMum, there are a few Americans that appreciate proper football. I am one of them. I played for 8 years...


----------



## 34KING18 (Jun 19, 2012)

So my list of supplies is good for a tortoise except the tank size? The substarte, lighting and everything is good except for my tank? I just wanna make sure I got everything down. Thank you guys for helping me!


----------



## Laura (Jun 19, 2012)

look at yard sales or craigslist for cheap larger tanks. used. not water tight is fine. some pet stores sell them cheap too. 
bigger the better. Russians love to move around and it will drive you nuts watching it climb over everything and trying to get out. 
Can you do the book case thing? you can find them cheap or free. 
I use soil type substrate. and mine are all outside..


----------



## zacheyp (Jun 21, 2012)

you can probably get the clamp fixture cheaper at home depot


----------



## irishshake (Jun 21, 2012)

If you take him out of his enclosure everyday to roam around in the house or take him outside and keep an eye on him . Does the enclosure matter . I live in an apartment it's small and I have no problems I'm a healthy young man. I go outside


----------



## StudentoftheReptile (Jun 21, 2012)

cjcantelon said:


> If you take him out of his enclosure everyday to roam around in the house or take him outside and keep an eye on him . Does the enclosure matter . I live in an apartment it's small and I have no problems I'm a healthy young man. I go outside



They should definitely have some type of enclosure, whether its indoors, outdoors or both. Tortoises really shouldn't be left to roam around the house. Too much stuff for them to get into, too difficult to control the right temperatures for them, flooring isn't right, etc. They need to be in a controlled environment...where they cannot escape and you don't have to worry about them eating something they shouldn't, or getting stuck somewhere, or getting a respiratory illness for being too cold or whatever.


----------



## irishshake (Jun 21, 2012)

StudentoftheReptile said:


> They should definitely have some type of enclosure, whether its indoors, outdoors or both. Tortoises really shouldn't be left to roam around the house. Too much stuff for them to get into, too difficult to control the right temperatures for them, flooring isn't right, etc. They need to be in a controlled environment...where they cannot escape and you don't have to worry about them eating something they shouldn't, or getting stuck somewhere, or getting a respiratory illness for being too cold or whatever.



Seems you misunderstood me


----------



## StudentoftheReptile (Jun 21, 2012)

cjcantelon said:


> Seems you misunderstood me



Maybe. Perhaps you should make yourself more clear in the future.

Let's take another look at your first statement, shall we?



> If you take him out of his enclosure everyday to roam around in the house or take him outside and keep an eye on him . Does the enclosure matter .



Punctuation and grammar aside, it would seem that you are asking that if one takes their tortoise out of their enclosure to either go outside or roam around one's home on a routine basis, does the details of the enclosure really matter. I was merely explaining that, indeed yes, it does matter. I apologize if your feelings were hurt because I did not answer your question with a simple "yes" or "no" but I felt it was better for anyone who happens upon this thread to know precisely WHY it does matter. Perhaps you were not intending to imply that one leave their tortoise to roam unattended in the house, but even still, the primary enclosure needs all of the tortoise's needs met, and that includes: proper heating and lighting, substrate, hiding shelters, and fresh water.

Now...was that NOT what you meant in your statement/question? If not, please feel free to clarify.



> I live in an apartment it's small and I have no problems I'm a healthy young man. I go outside



I'm not even entirely sure how this is even relevant to the topic. Umm...kudos on being healthy?

Oh...maybe you're trying to compare yourself and your own health to that of a tortoise's living conditions. Wrong. Its like comparing apples and....screwdrivers. You are a highly intelligent warm-blooded primate/mammal sentient being that has control of his environment. You have the choice of altering the thermostat in your apartment when you're too hot or too cold. You can choose to go outside when you want fresh air and sunshine. The cold-blooded, not-so-intelligent tortoise living in a glass box does not have such abilities. Therefore, we have to make sure they have what they need.


----------



## irishshake (Jun 21, 2012)

Haha. Sorry for upsetting you, I was not mad. Silly. 

I meant to ask. 

Does the size of the enclosure matter if you take your tortoise out,every so often, for exercise? Outside, inside, wherever.


----------



## cljohnson (Jun 21, 2012)

I've been following your thread. 
I believe your question about enclosure size has been answered many times. 
When you don't get the answer you're looking for you seem to ask again looking for the answer you want. 
I don't think anyone on this forum will condone keeping a tortoise in too small of an enclosure. 
It's more like you're asking what kind of conditions can a tortoise survive in, not what should I provide for my tortoise. 
That being said I appreciate your enthusiasm and I'm sure you have the best intentions at heart. 
Figure out the largest enclosure you could possibly fit into your apartment then double it. 
FIND A WAY TO MAKE IT WORK. 
Otherwise I think it's a no-go for tortoise at this point in your life. 
Hopefully soon you will find yourself in a situation with more room because you seem like the type who would be an awesome tortoise keeper. 
As far as your other questions. 
You seem to be on the right track with your choices. 
For your lighting I would stick with a MVB for your hot side. Make sure you adjust the height for the proper basking temperatures. 
If you feel you need more light on the cool side you can use a standard household compact fluorescent bulb. Just keep it high at least 20 to 24 inches above the substrate. 
NEVER use a UV compact fluorescent. 
Hope this helps


----------



## cljohnson (Jun 21, 2012)

Wow. 
I just realized this thread has been hijacked. 
I thought I was addressing the O.P. 34KING18. 
I don't know who cjcantelon is. 
Although I stand behind my statements they may have been misdirected. 
I apologize for any misunderstanding.


----------



## Vishnu2 (Jun 21, 2012)

I usually don't respond to things that turn into debates. I have used the reptile bark for my Russians and have had great luck with it and I have used Cypress mulch and liked it too. Cypress mulch IS cheaper. 
Secondly, my Russians don't get to go outside everyday because I live in Colorado and it doesn't always allow for it. However, that being said, without being rude I have a HUGE indoor enclosure for them and the Star tortoise that I am about to get. I feel like if you're about to spend money on a temp gun like suggested and everything that everyone has suggested please take my advice into consideration and do what's right for the tortoise you're about to choose. Would you want to live in a glass tank or something smaller. Glass tanks in my own personal opinion are cruel and should never be used. They just pace back and forth confused. 
If you can't afford a bigger enclosure wait until you can. If you don't have the space, wait until you do, what's the rush? I guess that's my questions for you... What's the rush? You both will be happy in the long run if you wait until you are properly ready.


----------



## clare n (Jun 22, 2012)

I also am not keen on getting into debates on here, I'm nowhere near as experienced as a lot of you,and certainly don't claim to be an expert. I do understand most aspects of tortoise keeping though.

I'm hoping this doesn't offend anyone it's just an observation and I don't want to sound out of line here but I feel like I need to say it, so apologies in advance.

I'm reading a lot about people buying tortoises, not only without considering and researching into how much time and space they need, then once they have them, they "cannot use anything bigger" but also a lot of people that are saying they don't want to take them to a vet due to money. The only reason I would be reluctant to take mine, is the stress it would cause him...maybe the experienced members here could start a thread regarding these things, just to let people know that they need space, they need shelters reptile vets arent cheap (maybe search a few vet fee lists to give people an idea) and if the prospective owners cannot provide these, OR cannot afford to take things into hand (health and vet wise) then perhaps look into a different kind of creature to keep. Or maybe get a good wedge of "emergency" money behind them before they go and purchase a tortoise. Reptile vets, well any vets, ARE expensive. Maybe mention insurance for your tortoise. 
I know money is tight for the most of us, but you cannot skimp on things like this. I feel if you know that you don't have ample funds, (and space) even just for the initial set up how do people think they will manage in future,when they may need to pay, say up to Â£200 for a set of X-rays, or overnight care. It's a shame that a lot of people all over (not necessarily on here) would rather hope that nasty symptoms "pass" because the trip will be expensive. 

I know a lot of this is off topic, but it's all up there with the space issue, it's the fact that occasionally people jump in head first because they like the idea of a tortoise, without considering future aspects, therefore putting the creatures health and well being in jeopardy.


----------



## StudentoftheReptile (Jun 22, 2012)

cjcantelon said:


> Does the size of the enclosure matter if you take your tortoise out,every so often, for exercise? Outside, inside, wherever.



I still think that it does.

You never know when other aspects of your life may influence how much time you have to devote to taking the tortoise out: i.e school, work, social gatherings, etc. Adverse weather could be a factor as well.

Better to have a good, spacious controlled environment that is roomy enough for the tortoise in case you don't have time to take it out every day.

_And this is directed to both the OP and CJcantelon._


----------



## irishshake (Jun 22, 2012)

StudentoftheReptile said:


> I still think that it does.
> 
> You never know when other aspects of your life may influence how much time you have to devote to taking the tortoise out: i.e school, work, social gatherings, etc. Adverse weather could be a factor as well.
> 
> ...



Thank you for answering that. I have an 5x 2 indoor enclosure . It was not a debate for anyone saying that. I was just asking a question . It was not a rhetorical question lol. I was curious lol... Sorry if it was to come off as something else. In most forums they get mad at you for starting a thread.


----------

