# Please help! Baby Hermann not eating/sleeping all day



## snickitysnack (Mar 8, 2020)

Hi all,

I purchased a 2 month old hermann tortoise about a month ago and this is my first time owning a reptile. Up until now, shes been doing great—eating, pooping, exploring. However, for the last 3 days she hasn't touched her food (I've been feeding her dandelion greens and romaine) and she sleeps constantly (in weird positions and totally splayed out so she looks dead). The temp in her enclosure is around 92-95 F under the lamp and 65-70 on the cold side. I also swap out the light at night for a red light because my apartment is really cold right now, so its about 80 under the lamp at night. I spray the substrate a few times a day to keep it humid and I soak her for 15 minutes 4-5 times a week. She has access to water at all times, and before she started acting sick, she loved to soak. The only thing I can think of is that she's currently in a glass vivarium, which I know is bad. I ordered a wooden one, but it's taking forever to arrive. I put up construction paper so she wouldn't go crazy, though, and I take her out into my yard once a day to get some fresh air.

I can't think of anything I'm doing wrong! Please help! I'd be so devistated if she died... Should I take her to a vet? Do reptile vets even exist? I'll attach a pic of her enclosure and of her sleeping in a weird position.


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## Tittlestortoise (Mar 8, 2020)

I don’t know much because I just had my first ever tortoise it was a Hermann tortoise and was acting same and he just died I only had him four days ? take yours to the vet so you don’t get same outcome.


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## Juan20669 (Mar 8, 2020)

Take her to a vet that specializes on exotic animals. I keep red foots so idk much about hermans, but I can tell you lettuce and dandelion greens have little to no nutrition. also be careful feeding dandelions if you dont know if they have been sprayed with pesticides.


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## Juan20669 (Mar 8, 2020)

get her mazuri or zoomed tortoise pellets, there are mixed opinions on this, but from personal experience if you dont over feed it, it does wonders.


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## Juan20669 (Mar 8, 2020)

I wouldn't use bark as a substrate too


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## snickitysnack (Mar 8, 2020)

Thanks! Heading to the pet store now to get some tortoise pellets. Maybe that will entice her to eat a little. Made an appointment for an exotic vet tomorrow... really hoping she makes it through the night. I read on this forum that you can soak them in carrot juice when theyre sick. Does anyone have any info on this?


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## KarenSoCal (Mar 9, 2020)

First, it may be wise to cancel the vet appt. Many vets don't really know how to care for torts, and frequently do more harm than good. If you do go, DO NOT let the vet give any vitamin shots! They usually want to give them Vitamin A, which can actually cause the skin to slough off. Also, if he prescribes antibiotic shots, tell him no Baytril. It is agonizingly painful for the tort, and given to a baby, could potentially be lethal. Give us a few days to try to get him feeling better.

I think your baby is too cold. Torts need to be warm enough to digest their food. If they're cold, they just stop eating. I have never kept a Hermann's, but you won't go wrong following the info in this link.






How to set up heat in new enclosure?


I just scored on a used 4x2x2 closed enclosure. It came with a socket I will put a 60w che in. And also 4' lighting fixture with a t5ho bulb by zoo med in it. So how should I set up the heating? Do I need to add a basking light? I also have the double light fixture I believe




tortoiseforum.org





You need to raise his temp now. You will need to close off the top of his tank to get it warm enough. Maybe you could make a tent of sorts that will cover the tank and light...a shower curtain possibly? Don't let it touch the light though. You don't want melting or to start a fire. You need a CHE (ceramic heat emitter) to supply heat with no light, especially at night. The tent cover will also help keep the humidity up where it should be. Just spritzing the substrate does not work to raise the humidity...it all just goes out the open top.

This is a link to a Hermann's care sheet, and a link to mistakes commonly made by beginners. Please read all of these and see what improvements should be made in your set up.






Sticky: HERMANN'S TORTOISE CARE SHEET *UPDATED


Josh and I corresponded last week about making an updated version of the Hermann's tortoise care sheet since the old one we have posted here is a bit outdated and a little too brief in my opinion. So, here is the new one equipped with photos. Look out for the April 2015 issue of Reptiles...




tortoiseforum.org










Beginner Mistakes


To comment on Tom's article, go here: http://www.tortoiseforum.org/Thread-split-Beginner-Mistakes#axzz1tG8s05M5 Over the years many of us, myself included, have made many of these mistakes, and we have certainly seen them made many times by others. With springtime upon us and many new...




www.tortoiseforum.org





It would be better for your baby if you would get rid of the red light at night. The light makes everything look red to the baby, and red is a favorite color for flowers. So they will try to eat their substrate, which is a big impaction risk.

There are other fixes you could implement, but take care of this heat issue first. Warm him up, and hopefully he will eat.


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## snickitysnack (Mar 9, 2020)

KarenSoCal said:


> First, it may be wise to cancel the vet appt. Many vets don't really know how to care for torts, and frequently do more harm than good. If you do go, DO NOT let the vet give any vitamin shots! They usually want to give them Vitamin A, which can actually cause the skin to slough off. Also, if he prescribes antibiotic shots, tell him no Baytril. It is agonizingly painful for the tort, and given to a baby, could potentially be lethal. Give us a few days to try to get him feeling better.
> 
> I think your baby is too cold. Torts need to be warm enough to digest their food. If they're cold, they just stop eating. I have never kept a Hermann's, but you won't go wrong following the info in this link.
> 
> ...



Thanks for your reply! I think her enclosure is definitely warm enough. She won't even sit directly under the light most of the timee because it can get up to 100 F. How do I keep her warm enough at night then? My apartment drops to the low fifties at night and I heard it's bad to keep the regular heat light on all night. I don't think she tries to eat the substrate at night with the red light on. She's usually in the exact spot I left her in the morning.


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## KarenSoCal (Mar 10, 2020)

As to the temps...your basking spot is a bit warm. When you read the care sheet you will see the recommended temps. The basking area should be 95deg. During the day, all the rest of the enclosure should be 80-85. That's in every nook and cranny, even the areas farthest away from the basking spot. Finally, the nighttime low should be in the lower 70's all night long. So your tort is getting way too cold at night. Then he basks, and then most of his remaining space is also cold, by his standards. Have you measured the temp at tortoise level, daytime, in the back corners away from both lamps?

Hopefully you have a temp gun. That way you can spot measure exactly where you want to. If you don't have one, Lowe's or Home Depot have them for around $20.

You asked about nighttime heat...you could use a CHE (ceramic heat emitter). They screw into a lamp socket and provide heat, but no light.


OMAYKEY 75W 2 Pack Ceramic Heat Lamp, Infrared Reptile Heat Emitter Heater Lamp Bulb for Pet Brooder Coop Chicken Lizard Turtle Snake Aquarium, No Light No Harm, 24hr Heat Source https://www.amazon.com/dp/B075XJXPGC/?tag=exoticpetnetw-20

You didn't mention if he ate yet. Try this every day when you soak him. Get a bottle of non-flavored Pedialyte, like for babies. And also a jar of baby food...pureed carrots. Mix the Pedialyte and water 50/50, enough for his soak. Then add some baby food carrots and stir it all up. Make it warm, and put him in to soak. He needs to stay in for at least 30-45 min. If he struggles to get out, it's time for tough love...keep him in, and keep it warm. Most torts drink when put into their soak, so he will be getting some nutrition. Doing this has helped bring babies back from nearly dying. Hopefully it will perk yours up too.

Keep us up to date...I really care about your little friend.


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## Randy Micheals (Mar 10, 2020)

> lettuce and dandelion greens have little to no nutrition.



Agree on the lettuce, though unsprayed washed romaine wont hurt once in a while. However dandelion is a great tort staple, is high in fiber/vitamins and, also calcium which helps bone and shell growth in young torts especially. Curious where you heard it had little to no nutritional value?


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## Juan20669 (Mar 10, 2020)

Randy Micheals said:


> Agree on the lettuce, though unsprayed washed romaine wont hurt once in a while. However dandelion is a great tort staple, is high in fiber/vitamins and, also calcium which helps bone and shell growth in young torts especially. Curious where you heard it had little to no nutritional value?


No my point was that you shoulnt feed it just that all the time. Tortoises cant get everything they need just from dendelion.


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## snickitysnack (Mar 10, 2020)

Thanks, everyone. I've been offering her some toroise pellets and she ate a couple bites yesterday, but not any since. I do have a temp gun, but i'm ordering the ceramic heat lamp right now! thanks for the suggestion! I tried the carrot soak yesterday and it definitely perked her up! I'll go get some pedialyte tomorrow.

She's still really letharic today... I'm so worried!


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## VegasJeff (Mar 10, 2020)

I don't think I would worry too much about her sleeping in weird positions as I've caught my tortoise sleeping in some weird positions near the opening of their hide. What worries me more is that they are not sleeping in the hide but out in the open. Is it pitch black in the room at night? That part seems odd to me.

I'd recommend switching the food out. My tortoise will refuse to eat if they don't like their food. Try some kale. Mine absolutely loves that. Also, see if you can get them some real sun once the weather warms up. I know it's cold in Oakland right now.


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## VegasJeff (Mar 10, 2020)

I just figured out why she is sleeping out in the open and not in her hide. The clue is in the pictures! I think @KarenSoCal hit the problem dead on. It's too cold for her! She won't sleep in the hide because it's too cold there. She can only get enough warmth to fall asleep by being under the lamp. If you have one of those portable electric heaters in your house, I'd recommend putting one in this room to help warm it up at night.


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## Krista S (Mar 10, 2020)

I’m sorry you’re having a hard time with your baby right now. I agree that I don’t think you should worry too much about her sleeping in odd positions. I caught my baby Hermann’s taking a nap out in the open. The first couple times it freaked me out seeing his little head resting on the orchid bark looking like he stopped mid step...I thought he had died, but no, he was just having a little nap. Just try and monitor how long those sleeps are if they occur during the day and are directly under the heat lamp. Don’t want the baby to overheat. I also don’t believe that a glass enclosure is bad thing for a baby especially when you’ve got the perimeter covered like you do. Something larger wouldn’t hurt though. The one thing I do think could help with the “sleeping out in the open“ part is if you put a hide on the warm side of the enclosure. I have a hide on both sides of mine and my little guy has never gone to sleep on the cool side. Good luck and please keep us posted.


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## snickitysnack (Mar 10, 2020)

Thank you guys! Really appreciate your thoughtful responses! Ordering a space heater and a smaller hide so it'll fit on the warm side of the tank. Still worried about her lack of appetite though...


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## Krista S (Mar 10, 2020)

Keep trying different foods and try feeding them different ways. See if she will be more encouraged to eat if you hold the leaf for her or does she want to do it on her own. Try cutting the leaves into smaller pieces and leaving them bigger...is there a preference? Try different colours of foods. For the longest time my little guy seemed to have an aversion to anything that wasn’t the ’right’ hue of green...and if it was purple, he’d just snub his little nose at it. Now there’s a preference for things that aren’t dark green. Most tortoises are more hungry after a soak where I find at times my guy will eat more before a soak. Just get creative and try different ways of feeding and hopefully something will do the trick.


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## jso (Mar 11, 2020)

Not sure what the substrate is? Pine bark chippings? I believe pine can give off noxious fumes/vapours when heated?
Could that be an issue?


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## snickitysnack (Mar 11, 2020)

I just changed the substrate to coco husk and put a space heater near her tank, but she's STILL not eating. It's been about a week and she's taken like two bites... Should I just take her to the vet? I really don't know what else to do.


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## method89 (Mar 11, 2020)

snickitysnack said:


> Thanks for your reply! I think her enclosure is definitely warm enough. She won't even sit directly under the light most of the timee because it can get up to 100 F. How do I keep her warm enough at night then? My apartment drops to the low fifties at night and I heard it's bad to keep the regular heat light on all night. I don't think she tries to eat the substrate at night with the red light on. She's usually in the exact spot I left her in the morning.


The temps as you listed are too cold... You don't have to agree but you would be making a mistake not listening to the sound advice you are receiving...


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## Krista S (Mar 11, 2020)

I’m sorry to hear that things aren’t improving. Based on my inexperience and not knowing the quality of the exotics vet you‘re able to take her to, answering your question about the vet is outside of the realm of advice that I should be offering. I’m sending positive vibes your way and praying things will turn around as a result of the changes you’re making from the advice you’ve been given.


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## snickitysnack (Mar 11, 2020)

method89 said:


> The temps as you listed are too cold... You don't have to agree but you would be making a mistake not listening to the sound advice you are receiving...



Hi, if you had read my above post, you'd see that I actually did listen to everyone's advice and I bought a space heater and the ceramic light for nighttime. Today the temp under the lamp was 95 and 80 on the cool side of the tank. I plan to leave the space heater on at night to keep the tank in the 70s. However, she still hasn't eaten today and I don't know what else to do...

All I want is for her to be healthy and as a new tortoise owner, I will gladly take any advice!


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## snickitysnack (Mar 11, 2020)

Krista S said:


> I’m sorry to hear that things aren’t improving. Based on my inexperience and not knowing the quality of the exotics vet you‘re able to take her to, answering your question about the vet is outside of the realm of advice that I should be offering. I’m sending positive vibes your way and praying things will turn around as a result of the changes you’re making from the advice you’ve been given.


I appreciate all your help! Hoping things turn around soon... I'll keep you posted


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## VegasJeff (Mar 11, 2020)

I wonder if her body has kicked into hibernation mode due to the cold temps. Hibernating torts can go a long time without eating. Would need someone’s opinion who is experienced in the area of hibernating torts.


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## KarenSoCal (Mar 12, 2020)

Keep her at the higher temps. And continue the carrot/Pedialyte soaks. When you put her in to soak, does she drink any of it?

I still think a vet might really mess her up. Vitamin shots and antibiotics are hard on tortoises. If the vet does an x-ray, that would tell you if there was an impaction. Unfortunately, it costs a lot for vet care for torts.

I know she isn't eating, but has she pooped at all? Does she ever strain like she has to go but can't?

I'm going to tag our expert on all things Hermann...
@HermanniChris What do you suggest here?


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## jso (Mar 12, 2020)

KarenSoCal said:


> As to the temps...your basking spot is a bit warm. When you read the care sheet you will see the recommended temps. The basking area should be 95deg. During the day, all the rest of the enclosure should be 80-85. That's in every nook and cranny, even the areas farthest away from the basking spot. Finally, the nighttime low should be in the lower 70's all night long. So your tort is getting way too cold at night. Then he basks, and then most of his remaining space is also cold, by his standards. Have you measured the temp at tortoise level, daytime, in the back corners away from both lamps?
> 
> You asked about nighttime heat...you could use a CHE (ceramic heat emitter). They screw into a lamp socket and provide heat, but no light.
> 
> Keep us up to date...I really care about your little friend.



Agreed that the basking spot is a little too warm, evidenced by the tortoise preferring to keep away from being right under it. And here’s the key to keeping Mediterranean tortoises. They actually benefit from having a temperature gradient available to them, so they can thermoregulate by themselves. And in their natural range they’d experience a night time drop in temperature. (Night temperatures down to upper 50s would not be unusual)

I would have thought that a tortoise kept in an open topped enclosure in a CH room, so that daytime ambient temperatures are (probably) in the mid 70s, with a basking light so they can raise their core temperature to 90-95*, should be fine. They’re also fine with night time temperatures dropping to normal room temperatures (assuming that the CH is off) which might be 59* or even less, as long as the daytime ambient temperatures in the room/enclosure encourage them to wake up and come and bask, then feed etc.[/QUOTE]


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## KarenSoCal (Mar 12, 2020)

I just remembered something...when you get your CHE, it should be put on a thermostat to keep the temp where you want it, and will shut off if it gets too hot.

This is one some other members use.






Zilla 1000 Watt Temperature Controller for sale


1




www.lllreptile.com


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## snickitysnack (Mar 12, 2020)

good news! She's way more active and lively today since I got the temps right and changed the substrate. She still hasn't eaten in over a week or pooped in a few days, but I'm more hopeful today. How long can a 3 month old tortoise go without food? I'm still doing carrot soaks and she does drink from it, so she's getting some caloric intake.


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## Blackdog1714 (Mar 12, 2020)

snickitysnack said:


> good news! She's way more active and lively today since I got the temps right and changed the substrate. She still hasn't eaten in over a week or pooped in a few days, but I'm more hopeful today. How long can a 3 month old tortoise go without food? I'm still doing carrot soaks and she does drink from it, so she's getting some caloric intake.


Keep doing the carrot soaks and always put her in front of fresh food right after the soak. Torts can go a while but it is smart to be cautious and very observant. Is it possible she eats when you are not watching?


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## KarenSoCal (Mar 12, 2020)

I agree with Blackdog...keep doing the soaks! You could even do 2 a day if your schedule permits. Also, try to entice her with something irresistable...maybe a bit of strawberry? Or a flower?


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## Krista S (Mar 12, 2020)

I’m happy to hear she’s more active today. Have you been tracking her weight? Has there been a significant decrease or is it remaining steady?


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## snickitysnack (Mar 12, 2020)

Another day passed with no eating or pooping... ugh. I really don't know what do do anymore. She was definitely more active today but still totally disinterested in anything I offered her.


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## Yvonne G (Mar 13, 2020)

Try putting a few more plastic plants all over inside the enclosure. Maybe it's just too open and he doesn't feel safe. Also, until you get him eating, put the food at the mouth of the cave so he doesn't have to come out into the open to eat.


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## snickitysnack (Mar 13, 2020)

Hi all, just wanted to update you. This morning she started doing this weird thing where it looked like she was biting the air so I took her to my local vivarium. They told me that she most likely has a respirtory infection and her chances of making it are slim. Unfortunately I wont be able to get her to a vet until monday since reptile vets are hard to come by... I have her in a smaller enclosure to keep her tempuratures warm. Really hope she makes it... I posted a separate post asking for advice with respiratory infections, but haven't gotten any responses yet. I feel so defeated...


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## Krista S (Mar 14, 2020)

Can you post a picture or 2 of her? is she breathing with her mouth open? Does she have bubbles or anything coming out of her nose or are her eyes swollen? How has her weight been throughout all of this? i haven’t personally dealt with a RI, but I’ve read many great threads on this forum on how to deal with them. I think doing a search for threads on RI would be a great place to start on helping resolve this.


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## snickitysnack (Mar 15, 2020)

Just wanted to update y'all! Took her to the vet yesterday and she got antibiotics (for URI) and vitamin injections. She's already doing so much better and ate for the first time in almost two weeks today! I was so happy that I immediately started crying, haha. Snack (that's her name) and I thank you for all your help/tips. Hopefully she just continues to get better!


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