# anyone use heat mats with the aquarium enclosures?



## Cre8ruckas (Jan 29, 2011)

s wondering if these are safe to use for my baby box turtle aquarium enclosure, i didnt want to use a heat lamp because it's making it too hot in the aquarium so i was wondering if these were safe to use. Right now the aquarium is staying around 73degrees with no heating suppliment but wanted to bump it up just a little 

http://lllreptile.com/store/catalog...and-rocks/-/zoo-med-10-to-20-gallon-heat-pad/


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## Edna (Jan 29, 2011)

I use one of those under the sleeping area of my hermann's aquarium. During the summer I only turned it on at night, but since it got cool in the house last fall I've been running it 24/7. It keeps the area at a nice temp for him. There are folks that swear there should be no "belly heat" but in a lot of situations it is the best solution. My heat mat has been operating for 1 year with no problems, and when I wanted to change its location on the bottom of the tank that was easy to do.


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## Yvonne G (Jan 29, 2011)

I use something similar to that for my baby box turtles. I have a mylar heat strip that's made to go under seedling trays in the green house. I have it under my plastic bin. It is on all the time because it's cold in my house. I have about 3" of substrate and then the hiding place. If you place your hand on top of the substrate you don't feel any warmth, but if you dig down a bit into the moist substrate it gets warmer. And baby box turtles dig down. The instructions on the box said that it doesn't get above 80 degrees, and I've found that to be true. I really like it for my baby box turtles.


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## tortoisenerd (Jan 29, 2011)

Belly heat is not something I'm comfortable with, but yes, many use it. If the enclosure heat up too much with a low wattage bulb up high, than its probably either too small or an enclosure, or not a good height or other general set up. What wattage and at what height? Remember you can even have half the bulb's heat radius outside of the enclosure (ie. hang the bulb over the edge, not in the middle). Tweak it when the tort isn't in there. Are they getting outside so you don't have a need for UVB? What temp gradient are you aiming for? I'd think a lower wattage bulb at the right height and location would work even in a tiny enclosure.


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## 68merc (Jan 29, 2011)

I have a heat mat that I stuck to the bottom of a piece of slate tile. It offers a warm spot out of the bright light. Both of my babies like to spend time on it after they eat.


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## dmmj (Jan 29, 2011)

Is anyone concerned with an aquarium heating up with an under tank heater?


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## Edna (Jan 29, 2011)

I'm not sure I understand your question, dmmj. Are you asking about the temp of the actual glass directly over the heat mat getting too hot? My tort doesn't dig down all the way to the glass, but then he might be smarter some torts.


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## tortoisenerd (Jan 29, 2011)

I would never use a set up such that if the tort dug all the way down it would ever be too hot...but I think its unnatural for it to get hotter as the tort digs down...so I wouldn't use belly heat regardless. I think under tank heating is even worse in a small aquarium due to heat distribution because those things can easily become hot boxes. Needing a thermostat also scares me. My tort digs all the way to the bottom all the time.


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## Madkins007 (Jan 29, 2011)

There are a few things to think about with heating from below.

1. Aim for warm, not hot. Substrates in the wild are warmed down a lot deeper than the typical home set-up can duplicate, especially in the cold or dry regions in the US where substrates can easily be cool or clammy.

2. Use the right system for your set-up, do research, and follow directions. Most failures of pads, tapes and cables is when they are misused.

3. Remember that heat does not travel evenly through all materials. In order to heat an aquarium slate bottom takes more energy than heating thinner glass would, and enough heat to do either of those can melt plastic. This relates to #2, and to doing your homework. The pads that stick under a tank tend to be really hot to accomplish this. I prefer lower temp cables, like http://www.bigappleherp.com/Big-Apple-Flexible-Heat-Ropes, that do not get over 90f when properly used.

4. I really strongly suggest a good thermostat when using most heat, especially from below.

5. There is a theoretical viewpoint of heat from below and the practical...
--- Theoretical- this view says that heat from above is natural and heat from below causes problems or confusion. Most of this debate is flawed by trying to compare what happens in nature with real soils and sun with the much different thermodynamics of captivity. The sun uses powerful IR and UV rays to penetrate deeply into the soil. The overhead lights and heat we use barely penetrate at all. In the wild, reptiles of all species have also used warmed surfaces with no signs of confusion.
--- Practical- It just works. Properly selected and installed in-soil warming or undersubstrate heating combined with a good substrate and some water (to help evenly distribute the heat- if the instructions call for it) results in warm soil, heat rising from it warms the tortoise, and the heated moisture humidifies the habitat 24/7. It tends to do it more cheaply as well since the heat stays more localized.

6. With diggers, you may need to lay in a piece of hardware cloth to keep them away from cables or tapes in the soil, although this is not a problem with undertank systems- this goes back to homework.


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## katies (Jan 29, 2011)

I have pondered this same question and have decided to avoid the under tank heat. What I noticed is that my little redfoot would burrow down deep, in an effort I think to find a cool spot, instead he just got hotter and hotter (over 100 degrees with my food thermometer down in the substrate). As I am trying to mimic nature as much as possible with the enclosure, undertank heat just does not seem to make sense. It is difficult to get the temps just right though...good luck!


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## wildponey21 (Jan 30, 2011)

I did and they work graet but in about 8 weeks the mat brunt it's self out from be one all the time. So if you do use them don't get a zoo med.


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## 81SHOVELHEAD (Jan 30, 2011)

I keep 2 redfoot tortoises in a 40 gallon critter keeper that i had for one of my beadered dragons ,
Under the tanks is a zoo med 14 watt tank heater.
Above this is a 100 watt mega-ray mvb bulb.
This tanks is 36" long by 18' wide x 16 inches tall.
I have 2 pcs of 18x18 slate tile setting on the floor (fits perfect actual 17.5x17.5)
On top of the slate tile is 3" of coco coir & mosser lee moss which is kept moist by daily misting.
Temps on the hot side average 85 to 90 f cool side 72 to 80 
Humidity 70 to 90 %.
The 14 watt heat pad doesn't produce much heat but it does warm the tile enough
to produce humidity at the levels my redfoots seem to enjoy.
This is only their temporary enclosure until it's warm enough to keep them outside.
Both of my torts dig about 2" deep & seems to enjoy this set up .
Works for me.
Mike D.


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## Tom (Jan 30, 2011)

Madkins007 said:


> 5. There is a theoretical viewpoint of heat from below and the practical...
> --- Theoretical- this view says that heat from above is natural and heat from below causes problems or confusion. Most of this debate is flawed by trying to compare what happens in nature with real soils and sun with the much different thermodynamics of captivity. The sun uses powerful IR and UV rays to penetrate deeply into the soil. The overhead lights and heat we use barely penetrate at all. In the wild, reptiles of all species have also used warmed surfaces with no signs of confusion.
> --- Practical- It just works. Properly selected and installed in-soil warming or undersubstrate heating combined with a good substrate and some water (to help evenly distribute the heat- if the instructions call for it) results in warm soil, heat rising from it warms the tortoise, and the heated moisture humidifies the habitat 24/7. It tends to do it more cheaply as well since the heat stays more localized.



A big reason that undertank/underbelly heating fell out of favor is because certain Agamids an Iguanids have a very well developed pineal eye. It is thought that with out over head light (possibly UV too) they don't thermoregulate very well and will sit and bake on underbelly heat for far too long. Back in the day, these mats and hot rocks got way too hot even when they were working properly and they malfunctioned and literally burned up frequently. I used a hot rock on my first box turtle for nearly 12 years in the 70's and 80's. We had to replace it after it burned up every year or two. We'd literally find it smoking. Luckily my boxie knew enough to move away from it at that point. I don't know how that poor turtle survived my ignorance. Many iguanas and beardies have been severely burned by using this type of heating device.

So again, the usefulness, safety and practicality really depends upon the species AND the proper application of the device.


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## Madkins007 (Jan 30, 2011)

Tom- I remember back in the late 70's that undertank heating was considered really helpful for many reptiles north of Florida, and there were hot rocks- which were usually cheaply made and too hot, some pads- ditto, and things like plans for 'hotboxes'- you built a stand for your habitat and heated the inside of the stand with lightbulbs or what have you. I used a pad and nearly burnt the habitat up! There is still a scorch mark on a counter downstairs from that.

I'm glad we have more options, although it is sad to see that so many of them are still not very good yet.


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## frogg3074 (Feb 11, 2011)

I have used one for 6 months now. Its on a timer for nights when my tort sleeps in his hide. It never gets hot enough to hurt the little guy. Its a zoomed heater.

Ken


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## Maggie Cummings (Feb 11, 2011)

It's my experience that we didn't want to use the so called 'belly heat' because some babies are too dumb to get off if they get too hot, and it caused deformed plastrons on young growing animals...
I use a pig blanket for Bob and don't worry at all...but I am not sure I'd want to use a heat mat for a hatchling ...


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