# "not enough time"



## moswen (Mar 16, 2010)

sometimes i feel like when i see older, larger sulcatas for "rehoming" on craig's because their owners "just don't have the time to properly care for it anymore", i can't help but judge the people rehoming them. i could never give away any of my prescious pets. they're part of the family. who would buy a pet and not consider it part of your family?

i judge, because i think "ya right. you either made a rash, uninformed, irresponsable decision to keep the 'cute little' baby till it gets too big and find someone else who wants YOUR PET, or you just saw it in the pet store and decided to buy it without even knowing anything about the breed." a pet is for life!! how many people are getting rid of their puppies on CL every day because "they thought they were ready for a puppy, butfound out they're not." HOW CAN YOU THINK YOU'RE READY FOR A PUPPY, BUT FIND OUT THAT YOU'RE NOT REALLY READY?

uninformed consumers get on my bad side sometimes. 

anyone disagree? please inform me! maybe i'm wrong...

i mean, i'll give it to you, sometimes life is just mean to you. you lose your job, have to get two jobs, have to downsize, the economy IS bad right now, but surely that hasn't happened to EVERYONE rehoming their should-be-family-members...


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## spikethebest (Mar 16, 2010)

i agree, its sad to see so many out there. i would take them all if i could.


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## chadk (Mar 16, 2010)

I don't see the big deal with rehoming a pet. If you take the time to find a good home for the pet - possibly better than you can currently offer it, then what is the big deal?

Heck, if society is OK with a person deciding he no longer loves his wife and wants a newer, younger model - then what is the big deal if the same guy looses interest in a reptile?

I belong to a reptile rescue \ club in the seattle area. Many of the members have large collections of reptiles and many are into breeding and selling\giving away the offspring. But all are involved in some way with rescueing and re-homing animals. Sometimes you loose interest in a certain breed, or have a new breeding project you want to work on, and you find a good home for the critters you need to move out.

What if we were talking goldfish? Would you mind of someone decided one day that he was no longer into goldfish and wanted to swap them with a friend's beta fish? Or sell or rehome the goldfish to make room for the new beta fish?

I see a lot of folks getting into reptiles and jump on CL and pet stores and shows and suddenly have collections they never imagined. Soon reality sets in and they make some adjustments - finding homes for some, and focusing on those that they get the most pleasure from.


(just playing devil's advocate here to some extent...)


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## moswen (Mar 16, 2010)

lol i love the part about the wife. i see what you are saying about making room for a new project or something of that nature, and i'm all for that side of the equation, but i just don't see that with every "not enough time" CL posting. and funny you would mention gold fish! i have a pearlscale, and i love him to death lol! in my opinion, why bring a pet into your home if you're not prepared to keep it and remain "interested" in it forever? i can't understand people who don't get attatched to things they see and feed and care for every day-- but that is just my personality, i'm not saying there's something wrong with people who don't! i'm just saying, why take on a commitment if you're not prepared to finish what you started. i mean, you know yourself. do you tend to remain interested in something for SIXTY PLUS years, or do you tend to lose interest once you've accomplished your goal, or attained that "top shelf" item? if you lose interest quickly or tend to be on the lazy side, what are you doing buying a sulcata? OR a goldfish, because they live for ten years lol!

i would definately prefer seeing an animal rehomed so that his proper requirements can be met, and giving that animal the best quality of life possable. i'm not saying there's a problem there, i'm just saying, the people who "just don't have enough time" anymore for their pets-- what did you think was going to happen? he was going to start feeding himself one day? he was NOT going to get as big as what they say? i don't understand people who take on a task that they're not prepared to finish. i've seen pics of sulcatas in people's back yard that looks about 5 feet by 5 feet and their little guy "would be happier with more space." think so? one time i saw an ad with a guy rehoming his sulcata that he kept in his bathroom because he lived in an apartment and didn't have a back yard! really? what was HE thinking! 

and this forum is here for people to play the devil's advocate lol, i don't mind! i would love for someone to change my opinion, so that i don't feel irritation when i see these adds in the future!


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## motero (Mar 16, 2010)

How come I can't find a free older Sulcata, if there are so many out there? I have built a huge burrow and planted lots of tort friendly plants, all on a block fenced acre. Where are all these Sulcata that need a new home? I need some weed control.


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## moswen (Mar 16, 2010)

lol, probably because everyone's asking a "small $50 rehoming fee" trying to make their money back... i've never seen one offered for free. they're almos always $50. but, $50 is a good price for an older tort. but still, they should be more concerned with him going to the right home rather than getting money for him. sounds like you're going to have one happy tort!

also, on the rehoming area of this site there are occasionally people who will post that their CL is rehoming a sulcata. you should check there every now and again. 

here is one website i've seen a $50 rehoming fee, but right now it looks like the cheapest is $200. you could check back here every now and again though. 

http://www.pet-classifieds.com/turtles-and-tortoises/

i hope you find yourself a weedeater soon!


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## Stephanie Logan (Mar 16, 2010)

_*"Heck, if society is OK with a person deciding he no longer loves his wife and wants a newer, younger model - then what is the big deal if the same guy loses interest in a reptile*?"_

So does your wife know you hold her in higher esteem than your reptiles? I'm sure she would be _honored_ by such a comparison...

I don't like to judge people too harshly when they rehome their pets, but I sure do wish I had the time and money to rent a padded, heated Mack truck so I could collect all the unwanted Sulcatas from the West Coast and drive them to willing new keepers in the South and on the East Coast, where Sulcatas seem to be in demand.


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## kimber_lee_314 (Mar 16, 2010)

motero said:


> How come I can't find a free older Sulcata, if there are so many out there? I have built a huge burrow and planted lots of tort friendly plants, all on a block fenced acre. Where are all these Sulcata that need a new home? I need some weed control.



The CTTC always has some to rehome.


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## Tom (Mar 16, 2010)

Rebekah, I understand your feelings and you are not wrong, but I sort of agree with Chad on this one (except for the wife thing). Reptiles and most other animals have always been somewhat of a commodity for me. Its a little different with dogs, primates and other "social" animals, but as long as a tortoise is getting proper care, it doesn't bother me if someone moves them in and out. I do side with you on the not enough time thing though. I worked in the retail pet trade for 8 years. I saw the good, the bad and the ugly all day long. I wish some members of our society had a little more compassion and common sense.

Motero, We are in the same boat my friend. I've been looking for ten years. Nada. Zip. Zero. Zilch.

Stephanie, my dear Stephanie. You have the kindest of kind hearts, and the most pleasant sense of humor. If you find out where all these torts in need of homes are hiding on the West Coast please let me and Motero know.


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## chadk (Mar 16, 2010)

I have 2 sullies I got for free. Both pretty healthy. The other was 'free', but I paid a high price for the glass tank and accessories... that I never used.... And it was not in the best shape. I had a chance at a 90lb adult male, but we both agreed it was not the best fit. Now I have a chance at a 10lb male, but decided to pass on it as it is also a male and horribly pyramided. So here in Western WA, there seem to be plenty around if you are a little patient, and a little lucky. Cruise CL every day. And DON'T just look at the 'pet' section. Often they will be listed in the general for sale sections (even though you are not supposed to), but some folks don't know about the pet section or the rules... I found a few torts that way...


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## Annieski (Mar 17, 2010)

I got Mortimer when my son and roomates graduated college in Michigan. The guys got her on a whim--and because of what they were told about care--thought it would be no" big " deal. I did do research and still never realized the magnitude of care[especially never having any reptile experience]. Now after almost 2 full years, I don't remember what my life was before Morty. The nicer weather is coming--and I know she knows-- and we will be outside--- but I my heart, I know she will need to be in a place that is even better than I can provide in New Jersey[ probably around mid-October when the weather is going to change again]. My best option is to rehome her, especially since whomever she would go to would be well aware of what her specific needs are 24/7. I htink you should be angry with the pet stores and the "flee market" vendors{that is where Morty came from} for how they do their marketing to make a sale--- not the person who now realizes they are way in over their head and at least trying to find a home instead of just letting the animal die from neglect.


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## chairman (Mar 17, 2010)

Don't have time, don't have space... normally this type of pet owner bothers me. But then I remember that I am going to, very soon, become that kind of pet owner with my koi. Sure, they're only fish-a commodity animal, to use language from above- but I am rather attached to them. I am going to have to find homes for my babies, because my pond doesn't magically expand as my fish population does. And its not like I'm doing anything to encourage it! Granted, I haven't gone the extra step to get rid of all my boys, or all my girls, but I allow natural selection to decide how many babies survive each year, and it is still too many! (Come to think of it... are koi the sulcata of the fish world? Cute, cheap, tiny babies that grow into monstor-sized reproductive machines? Hmm.) So I am going to have to rehome fish, and I am going to have to do it because I don't have the space, and I am going to be faced with whether or not to charge a "rehoming" fee. Does charging a fee really guarantee a good home? Or do you just threaten a fee to keep away the baddies and then waive it for nice adoptive parents? It does bug me to see adult sulcatas that "need" a new home with rehoming fees of $500-$1000. Sure, maybe they "need" the money for the same reason they "need" to get rid of the tort, but I could finance a very nice outdoor setup with that cash!

As a result, I try to reserve my judgement on rehoming situations even though my instinct is to cringe and think nasty thoughts. Maybe that person who "no longer has time" for their pet lost that time because one of their family members developed a debilitating disease and now requires care? Or maybe they're just an idiot who let a whim control their actions. If idiots like that are allowed to accidentally have kids, why not tortoises? At least finding a new home for a tortoise is a rather easy process that won't stress the tortoise all that much.

Oh, and if you're looking for a tortoise to adopt, try doing a g o o g l e search for "tortoise site:craigslist.org". That'll pull up a search for every craigslist in the country, and you can look at the links to see if you'd be willing to travel or ship to get a tort. Also, you can add "-cat", "-sunglasses", and "-guitar" to the search to eliminate some common items from your search that include the word tortoise in the post.


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## moswen (Mar 17, 2010)

oh my goodness i know what you mean about eliminating "cat" from your search mike!! there are a whole lot of tortoise shell kitties that need homes lol!

so, i guess i stand corrected to a degree... i see that some breeders or "pet hobbyists" and probably every large pet store in the country are definately out to make a buck more than they are out to protect the animals and make sure their future owners know exactly what they're getting themselves into, so some people do buy uninformed. i'm sorry about mortimer, annieski. i would be so sad to part ways with an animal i'd taken care of for so long, and it is not your fault or your son's that he was misinformed when he bought her. 

but i think tortoises are becoming more known by the general public that you can keep these guys as pets, and as forums like this grow and more science and research goes into proper care and housing, hopefully awareness will grow too!


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## fifthdawn (Mar 17, 2010)

I'm gonna play devil's advocate as well.

The only reasons people really rehome is because of financial problem (with probably ties in with no enough time) or lost of interest. I'm sure financial problem is understandable so I won't touch on that especially when Sulc gets bigger. As to lost of interest, sometimes people just don't find their pets as interesting as they were from the start. It might be hard to imagine but most we can do is speak for ourselves. Just because we don't lose interest in our pet doesn't mean others won't.

Given that losing interest is very possible, what would you do or what should the other person do if he or she lost interest? Continue keeping it without the emotional bond or rehome it to someone who you know has interest in it and would love it? I think the rehoming would be the best option in this case.

I think the more loving a pet keeper we are, the more biased we can be. It would be like a meat eatter not understanding how a vegeterian can abandom meat for veggies for the rest of their life. The only way we'll truly understand why someone would rehome an animal is if we have to rehome one of ours. I've had to rehome one of my turtles before. The two I had as a babie didn't get along as they grew up. I already have enough fish tanks at home so getting another tank, mvb bulb, filter, etc was too costly and I just don't have the room for it. So I had to rehome the aggressor and keep the victim.


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## moswen (Mar 17, 2010)

no, i'm not saying that people who are forced to give up their pets due to unforseen circumstances are evil, or wrong, or that they should keep the pet. however, when i see an ad "rehoming" an animal, usually sulcatas, and they state the reason "needs more room" or "not enough time" and i personally have gotten the impression by reading the ad that the person either did not know what they were doing OR knew that they did not have enough room or adequate housing for their pet as it got older -the irresponsable people- irritate me. 

several people have posted on here extenuating circumstances, like mortimer for example, or mike's koi pond, and your tortoisses not getting along, and those situations aren't the issue.

the issue is when you buy a pet and you do not think you will be able to "keep intrest" for 60 plus years, or that you will be able to adequately provide a YARD for your tortoise (appartment guy!), i feel that you have made an irresponsible impulse buy and now you're asking someone else to take over your irresponsibility. i feel like consumers these days don't care about the future, or their pets, they just want what they want and they want it right now. they don't THINK. people who "lose interest" really do irritate me, i feel that those people are irresponsible, and they're contributing to the need for shelters of all kinds all over the world. if you can't keep a pet for life, due to "lack of interest," you shouldn't be buying the pet in the first place. 

now, i do believe that rehoming is the BEST situation here and that a rehoming should occur if for ANY reason an animal can not be properly or safely or adequately cared for in the situation that they are in right now. i dont' think there's anything wrong with rehoming an animal. for any reason. if this animal can have a better quality of life, for whatever reason, then i think this animal should get that better quality of life.

what irritates me is the irresponsibility of the owners involved, if indeed it is irresponsibility that has caused this animal to need a new home. 

if you need to rehome the animal because the pet store owner did not properly inform you of the needs of the animal you are buying and you can not provide an adequate home for this particular animal, that is not your fault. if you are taking on an animal for an irresponsible person you know who doesn't want the animal anymore, and you can't adequately provide for it, and you're trying to rehome this animal, there is no problem there. if your animals don't get along, if you lose your job and have to downsize, if you want to start a new project, none of those reasons are irritating in my opnion. that is an unforseen circumstance that could not be avoided. 

i've seen an ad on craig's for a woman rehoming two red eared sliders in a 10 gallon tank that are "approximately 3 inches and shouldn't get much bigger than that." she also stated "i just don't have time for these guys anymore." "they are great pets for your kids and completely tame." and "they come with everything they will ever need." and some other completely irresponsible crap on the post. this is the type of person i'm talking about. i posted on the pet's section completely disclaiming her (of corse it got flagged by that evening, but she did repost her ad and it simply stated "two 3 inch red eared sliders with a ten gallon tank"). turtles and tortoises, as you should know, are NOT good children pets, besides the obvious reason of salmonella, children could lose it, play too rough with it, over feed it or forget to feed it, children WILL lose interest in this pet, and so many more reasons why you should NOT get your child a turtle or tortoise. red eared sliders will get MUCH bigger than three inches, she was lying about that! also, a ten gallon tank is not adequate for even one hatchling, let alone two, let alone for in the future! so they don't come with "everything they will ever need" because tanks of adequate size for two red eared sliders are EXPENSIVE. and she "didn't have time." it's a hatchling, how long have you had it before you decided you "just don't have the time" for it? 

this is the type of post that irritates me.


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## dmmj (Mar 17, 2010)

I own a magic expanding pond


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## moswen (Mar 17, 2010)

lol, you should patent that!


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## Kristina (Mar 17, 2010)

I have two kids, 8 tortoises, a turtle, a snake, 19 birds, 8 axolotls, 3 fish tanks over 100 gallons and 11 that are 55 gal and under, 4 cats, 5 frogs, a dog, rats, mice, a husband, and a full time job.

All of my animals are fed exceptionally, cages are clean, vet visits are made, tanks are cleaned and water changed once every week, and they get my love and attention. I make my own fish food, turtle food, and axolotl foods, and a gel staple tortoise diet. 

It takes me 20 minutes to a half an hour to wash the tort's water dishes, feed them, and give them a soak every morning. Not exactly horridly time consuming.

I have to agree that "I just don't have the time" is kind of silly when it comes to most reptiles. I had sulcatas (Ella and Gwen) and actually the were EASY to care for - scoop the poop, change the water and toss in a bunch of food most days (granted they weren't huge huge, but 25 lbs and 13-14 inches isn't tiny either, lol.) 

I understand that there are unforeseeable things such as deaths, divorces, job loss (people that throw a ten year old pet away because they are having a baby disgust me, on another note. I understand if the baby is already born and there are aggression issues, but "I'm pregnant, the dog that has doted on me it's whole life now must go" is cruel, just cruel) but I truly believe that "I just don't have enough time" is a cop out most of the time.

Kristina


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## Scooter (Mar 17, 2010)

After reading this I tried the g o o g l e search and saw this add.

http://atlanta.craigslist.org/atl/for/1644977784.html

How can you keep a tort the size of a basketball in a 55 gallon tank? Plus how many newborns go around sticking their hands in a tortoise tank?


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## chairman (Mar 18, 2010)

dmmj said:


> I own a magic expanding pond



I can has magic pond?

I saw the ATL tortoise as well... they mentioned something about letting him in the yard during warmer weather, so I'm hoping he's a) not as big as they state and b) only stuck in a tank while it is too cold outside. I was actually thinking about giving them a call... definitely sounds like a tort that could use a little rescue, and ATL isn't too far of a drive for me. The only thing holding me back is that I'd have to drive south to get him, and I really only wanted to adopt a tortoise that I had to drive north to get.

I sort of agree with the idea of the "no more time" being a cop out, but I think it is more of a euphamism-like-thing... "I lost interest so I don't want to make time" makes you sound like such a bad person, but claiming to not have as much time as you used to but desiring to find a home that does isn't bad at all. But still, I think it is better to initially react to these things as though the owner has a legitimate reason for finding a new home for their animal, THEN act as outraged as you want if a darker truth becomes apparent. But hopefully not until you've done something to find the animal in question a better home, of course.


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## moswen (Mar 18, 2010)

i agree. "the baby is coming" is a rediculous reason to get rid of an animal. i had a baby with a blue tick hound, a husky pup, and my greek tortoise living under our pool table and having full range of the house anytime she wanted to roam. (the set up is really cool under there i wish i could figure out a way to resize the pictures on this old computer, i'd love to post them!) and my daughter has never been sick, just for the record! 

i do feel sorry for that guy though, a 55 gallon tank is what i keep my goldfish in, that just seems WAY too small for a sulcata! i wonder what his growth looks like, living in a tank and eating ROMAINE lettuce! i am going to contact her, atlanta isn't too terrably far away from here.


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## Kristina (Mar 18, 2010)

OMG - that ad is awful. Um, and how many NEWBORN babies are WALKING around the house and sticking their hands into a tank that is 25" tall? WhatEVER, lol. Poor tort, someone go get him!!!

Kristina


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## chairman (Mar 18, 2010)

Is the "newborn baby" excuse stupid? Yes. Are pregnant women crazy? Also yes. As such, sounds like a good excuse to me. I just feel sorry for daddy if it was his beloved pet that he has to sacrifice for some hormones.


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## moswen (Mar 26, 2010)

um, mike... i'd LOVE to see you carry around 30-40 extra lbs with tiny feet and hands kicking you on the inside of the ribs, stretching out your skin, putting you off balance, making you randomly break out in the sweats bc you're hot, making you PEE every ten minutes, keeping you from sleep because you have A HUGE BEACH BALL stuck to your stomach, and not allowing you to eat the foods you want, not even allowing you to drive your own car, making your feet swell up and constantly ache, making your back ache, giving you daily headaches and you CAN'T TAKE TYLENOL for ANY of these aches.... 

and see how "sane" you are at 8 months and two weeks! "daddy" better be glad his P***S wasn't sold instead lol!

but still, the "newborn baby" excuse is still stupid, for any pet besides an alligator or a 50 ft python, wether you're expecting or not.


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## chairman (Mar 26, 2010)

For the most part, I do get to carry around an extra 30 pounds of arms and legs and kicking and etc... I have a very clingy 2 year old daddy's girl!  I know, I know, not the same. I wasn't trying to say that women don't have a right to get a little loopy when they're pregnant, I was just trying to say that given my experience with the craziness, I could see how a pregnant woman could get hysterical about salmonella and believe that she should clean out all the reptiles in the house to prevent baby from being exposed.


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## terracolson (Mar 26, 2010)

Wow lots of responses to this one.. I agree with the "not enough time" and i agree Chadk




FYI to all the So cal who cant find the free Sulcatas... Remember tehe Sulcata I show you from my sisters house.. It was Free from CL. He 
were in the high dessert. Look outside of the normal range... Tom you could have so picked that one up.


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