# Can someone explain this? (tortoise chases ball)



## Eva C (Oct 27, 2017)

Tortoise chases ball: 




Is he going after it because he thinks it is something to eat, or is he actually playing? And, how do I get my tortoise to chase a ball?


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## ZEROPILOT (Oct 27, 2017)

One word..
Aggression!
Russian tortoises HATE sharing space with anything else.


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## WithLisa (Oct 27, 2017)

The poor guy is totally stressed out. The ball looks like an intruder and tries to "run away" when he bites it, so he is frantically chasing it.


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## Tom (Oct 27, 2017)

Neither. He is attacking it as if it is an intruder in his territory. Quite common behavior for a russian tortoise. They are very scrappy and territorial. Tortoises don't "play".

It is also very bad to let them roam loose in the house like that, and slick floors are not good for their legs either.


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## ZEROPILOT (Oct 27, 2017)

Some tortoises will push a ball. My Redfoot used to.
Certainly a solo Russian will. But it may just cause unneeded stress to the animal.


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## Eva C (Oct 27, 2017)

ZEROPILOT said:


> One word..
> Aggression!
> Russian tortoises HATE sharing space with anything else.


 
Thanks, that makes sense.


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## JoesMum (Oct 27, 2017)

I agree. That is not playing. That is a tortoise trying to remove an intruder. It looks nothing like a tortoise to you, but believe me mine was aggressive towards buckets, the lawn mower ( a particularly hated foe), the wheelie bin... and tried to mate with shoes, small balls, rocks, shoes, the drain cover... did I mention shoes?

Tortoises aren't very bright. These things are stressful. And I never advocate putting any animal through unnecessary stress


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## Eva C (Oct 27, 2017)

Tom said:


> Neither. He is attacking it as if it is an intruder in his territory. Quite common behavior for a russian tortoise. They are very scrappy and territorial. Tortoises don't "play".
> 
> It is also very bad to let them roam loose in the house like that, and slick floors are not good for their legs either.



Disappointing, but way more plausible. Thanks so much for the info!


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## Eva C (Oct 27, 2017)

WithLisa said:


> The poor guy is totally stressed out. The ball looks like an intruder and tries to "run away" when he bites it, so he is frantically chasing it.


Thanks so much for the info. I am a new tortoise owner and don't know their behaviors yet. I had a feeling this video wasn't all its cracked up to be.


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## Eva C (Oct 27, 2017)

ZEROPILOT said:


> Some tortoises will push a ball. My Redfoot used to.
> Certainly a solo Russian will. But it may just cause unneeded stress to the animal.



Is maybe a little stress good for them though? Keeps them from getting bored and more like their situation in the wild? Like I give my dog a steady supply of toys to destroy, which is agression but is natural behavior, and it keeps her from getting bored. Just a thought.


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## ZEROPILOT (Oct 27, 2017)

Eva C said:


> Thanks so much for the info. I am a new tortoise owner and don't know their behaviors yet. I had a feeling this video wasn't all its cracked up to be.


Look up "tortoise wiggling butt"
Spraying them with a garden hose makes them dance and the jury is still out as to if it's a pleasure response or something else.


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## JoesMum (Oct 27, 2017)

No stress isn't good for them. There is no excuse for putting a wild animal kept in captivity under any more stress than is necessary.

They are not social creatures, they are territorial loners.

Character building is a human thing. It doesn't apply to wild animals.

Tortoises are wild animals. They are not domesticated in any way.


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## ZEROPILOT (Oct 27, 2017)

Eva C said:


> Is maybe a little stress good for them though? Keeps them from getting bored and more like their situation in the wild? Like I give my dog a steady supply of toys to destroy, which is agression but is natural behavior, and it keeps her from getting bored. Just a thought.


A bored tortoise seems to be a happy tortoise.
(IMO)
Remember that dogs actually enjoy playing


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## WithLisa (Oct 27, 2017)

Eva C said:


> Is maybe a little stress good for them though? Keeps them from getting bored and more like their situation in the wild? Like I give my dog a steady supply of toys to destroy, which is agression but is natural behavior, and it keeps her from getting bored. Just a thought.


If you want to keep your tort from getting bored build him a large outside enclosure and give him new things to explore every once in a while. New plants, stones, logs, hay, a heap of moss,... whatever. 
But a ball on slick floor is a bad way to keep them occupied. The tort in the video can never really reach the "intruder" to sniff, taste and explore. Looks extremely frustrating to me.


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## Tom (Oct 27, 2017)

WithLisa said:


> If you want to keep your tort from getting bored build him a large outside enclosure and give him new things to explore every once in a while. New plants, stones, logs, hay, a heap of moss,... whatever.
> But a ball on slick floor is a bad way to keep them occupied. The tort in the video can never really reach the "intruder" to sniff, taste and explore. Looks extremely frustrating to me.



I agree.

Its the flailing horizontally held legs that are the most disturbing part of it for me.


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## Eva C (Oct 27, 2017)

JoesMum said:


> No stress isn't good for them. There is no excuse for putting a wild animal kept in captivity under any more stress than is necessary.
> 
> They are not social creatures, they are territorial loners.
> 
> ...



It is my understanding that reptiles are very different types of creatures, not emotional like humans and other mammals. So while it is probably not appropriate to use terms like "bored", and "playful", what I was suggesting was the possibility that facing small challenges could benefit a tortoise for the very reason that it more closely mimics their situation in the wild. In general, when we create our tortoise habitats there is the assumption that the closer it is to their "natural" environment, the better.


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## Eva C (Oct 27, 2017)

WithLisa said:


> If you want to keep your tort from getting bored build him a large outside enclosure and give him new things to explore every once in a while. New plants, stones, logs, hay, a heap of moss,... whatever.
> But a ball on slick floor is a bad way to keep them occupied. The tort in the video can never really reach the "intruder" to sniff, taste and explore. Looks extremely frustrating to me.



Yes this is more the kind of thing I was thinking about. I agree that the video is not the way to go about it.


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## Eva C (Oct 27, 2017)

Tom said:


> I agree.
> 
> Its the flailing horizontally held legs that are the most disturbing part of it for me.


 Yes I agree the tortoise is under way too much stress.


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## Gillian M (Oct 27, 2017)

No, I do not think your tort is playing either.

I once put a small bouncing ball into Oli's enclosure to see his reaction. He ignored it and didn't seem to be in the least interested.


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## Franco F (Oct 27, 2017)

I can’t imagine the amount of dust that must be on that wood floor, too. Definitely a health hazard


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## Grandpa Turtle 144 (Oct 27, 2017)

One of our members posted this X-ray it may help you understand why we don’t want people to let their torts run a round the floors of a house !


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## MrMarg&me (Oct 27, 2017)

Did this turtle swallow a turtle charm?


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## Grandpa Turtle 144 (Oct 27, 2017)

MissMarg&me said:


> Did this turtle swallow a turtle charm?



Yes !


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## Tom (Oct 27, 2017)

Eva C said:


> Yes I agree the tortoise is under way too much stress.


I'm not as worried about mental stress. I'm more worried about physical damage to the joints, tendons and ligaments.


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## Tom (Oct 27, 2017)

Grandpa Turtle 144 said:


> One of our members posted this X-ray it may help you understand why we don’t want people to let their torts run a round the floors of a house !



"But but but, I'm _always_ very careful, and I _always_ supervise the tortoise when he's loose in the house…"


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## Yvonne G (Oct 27, 2017)

You forgot, "And my floors are clean enough to eat off."


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## Bambam1989 (Oct 27, 2017)

Poor little guy looks like a sea turtle struggling on land..


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## Redfool (Oct 27, 2017)

No jackpot giant grape theory ? [emoji524][emoji217]


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## Taylor T. (Oct 28, 2017)

If you pause the video at 0:24, you can see that he has an awful underbite as well.


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## Lady of the Tort Fort (Nov 1, 2017)

I put a pingpong ball in my baby Russian's enclosure to see if he would react to it, but after reading this thread I'm glad that he has been completely ignoring it for months.

As for the agression against objects, I can relate to the fact that he is very suspiciously watching every move of this soft indoor football. Its colors and pattern do look a lot like a Russian's shell


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## TammyJ (Nov 1, 2017)

This video seems cruel, like using the tortoise for the viewers' entertainment even though it is obviously stressing out the animal.
I hate bullfighting too, mind you...!


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## Kotter (Nov 3, 2017)

Eva C said:


> Is maybe a little stress good for them though? Keeps them from getting bored and more like their situation in the wild? Like I give my dog a steady supply of toys to destroy, which is agression but is natural behavior, and it keeps her from getting bored. Just a thought.



A dog tearing up toys isn’t necessarily aggression. It _can_ be, but often is just playing. We have 2 JRTs and any toy they get immediately gets ripped open so they can get at the squeaky goodness inside. Our greyhound loves to rip holes in her beds, pull out the stuffing, and then toss it in the air like it’s raining fluff. Neither of these are acts of aggression, they are just dogs playing. They might be aggressive, destructive acts from a human standpoint, but to a dog it’s just playing.


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## TammyJ (Nov 3, 2017)

Kotter said:


> A dog tearing up toys isn’t necessarily aggression. It _can_ be, but often is just playing. We have 2 JRTs and any toy they get immediately gets ripped open so they can get at the squeaky goodness inside. Our greyhound loves to rip holes in her beds, pull out the stuffing, and then toss it in the air like it’s raining fluff. Neither of these are acts of aggression, they are just dogs playing. They might be aggressive, destructive acts from a human standpoint, but to a dog it’s just playing.


Yes, I think dogs tearing up toys could be either aggression, boredom or playing, depending on the dog and the situation.
But tortoises do not play.


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## Kotter (Nov 3, 2017)

TammyJ said:


> Yes, I think dogs tearing up toys could be either aggression, boredom or playing, depending on the dog and the situation.
> But tortoises do not play.



Right. As per my comment, I was only referring to dogs. Most everyone here mirrored my initial thoughts from when I first viewed that terrible video - particularly Tom’s comment in regards to the tortoise not even being able to stand up on those smooth, slick floors. That was what immediately jumped out at me. And with these things being this obvious to someone as inexperienced with tortoise care as me (I’ve owned my 2 Sulcata babies for all of 3 weeks today), then I can’t imagine how the owner in the video thought everything was ok with their tortoise. I mean, geez, it couldn’t STAND UP! Hopefully this tort isn’t normally and/or constantly on floors like this, but unfortunately the way its legs were splayed out I suspect this is typical of its life. I hope either the owner will learn - and sooner rather than later - or that I am wrong about what I’ve perceived from the video.


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## Redfool (Nov 3, 2017)

TammyJ said:


> This video seems cruel, like using the tortoise for the viewers' entertainment even though it is obviously stressing out the animal.
> I hate bullfighting too, mind you...!



Putting a stressed out tort on a hard slick floor that makes it walk/run unnaturally can cause joint damage and bone disorders. Entertainment?


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## TammyJ (Nov 3, 2017)

Redfool said:


> Putting a stressed out tort on a hard slick floor that makes it walk/run unnaturally can cause joint damage and bone disorders. Entertainment?


The very reason some humans keep animals is for entertainment. it's just a great pity and horrible for the animal when the people either do not know or do not care that it is suffering and being damaged in some often permanent way, over and over, for their "entertainment" - or their profit.
I am a rather biocentric person, and I do not believe that any human being is entitled to treat an animal with cruelty. Unfortunately, too many people cannot fathom the fact that an animal can have emotions and can feel real pain.


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## counting (Nov 8, 2017)

JoesMum said:


> No stress isn't good for them. There is no excuse for putting a wild animal kept in captivity under any more stress than is necessary.
> 
> They are not social creatures, they are territorial loners.
> 
> ...



Obviously not on a slick household floor, or all the time. Absolutely not as in this video, but I can see small stressors as being potentially beneficial.

Nothing to do with character building.

In terms of enrichment in captive animals, small amounts of stress is actually healthy.
Obviously most enrichment is derived from having a spacious, interesting environment. More from providing opprotunities to forage. But at the end of the day important enrichment does come from the ability to exhibit natural behaviours.

We know stress hormones in low and moderate amounts are healthy for living things(domestic and wild animals alike). So I can very well see under the right circumstances, a tortoise chasing a perceived intruder from his territory as being a bit of "healthy" stress. This could give the ability to exhibit a natural behavior in a safe way, and provide a bit of a chemical reward from exerting dominance and triumphantly protecting his territory.

Obviously if someone did do this I would say it should be under extremely controlled circumstances. Safe area, very limited amount of time, once the intruder "flees", it stays gone. Not for the enjoyment of people but as a way to rarely provide a different type of enrichment.

I agree It is important that we ensure that animals in our care do not experience undue stress as a result of our captivity. It is important that we do not force them to exhibit behaviours that cause them risk, unnatural stress or discomfort for our own enjoyment. They are living being and not toys or things that exist for our fun. But providing limited, occasional chances to experience low level stress IS healthy and important for every animal- wild or captive.


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## TammyJ (Nov 9, 2017)

counting said:


> Obviously not on a slick household floor, or all the time. Absolutely not as in this video, but I can see small stressors as being potentially beneficial.
> 
> Nothing to do with character building.
> 
> ...


I get this and I agree. Even moving an animal, and we are talking tortoises here, from an indoor enclosure to a larger, grassy, sunny open air one outside, is a kind of stress that we might agree is a "small and healthy" stressor. And adding some new rocks or plants, or a "toy" or two would increase their "enrichment" and may more closely mimic their natural wild environment.
We just have to keep an eye on them like they are our kids, to see no harm is done.


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