# Glass and stress



## dolfanjack (Jul 11, 2010)

I am so tired of the matra, glass stresses land turtles. I see no proof of this, in my own experiences and in topics I read, but people still insist on it. And what really makes me angry is that aquariums are just fine for water turtles. No one says, keep your your res in a fifty gallon rubbermaid because the glass will stress them. So, are water turtles just stupid and don't know to be stressed or are they really smart and know that funny barrier is there for my protection. All animals, turtles included, will try to escape an inclosier and that doesn't mean they're stressed. My russian occasionally paces but so do turtles in sightless containers. If you have another argument about glass fine, but please stop the whole stress issue. Now let the debate begin.


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## Terry Allan Hall (Jul 11, 2010)

I'm inclined to think it really depends on the individual tortoise...some seem to stress over "the invisible barrier", others seem to ignore it.


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## PeanutbuttER (Jul 11, 2010)

I've been told it's mostly WC that have problems with it. They're used to roaming and exploring and the temptation of what they can see on the other side of the barrier is just too much for them.

Turtles on the other hand tend to stay in one area for most of their life. They don't have that same urge to roam, so they're more apt to be content with staying in the aquarium.


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## Redfoot NERD (Jul 11, 2010)

dolfanjack said:


> I am so tired of the matra, glass stresses land turtles. I see no proof of this, in my own experiences and in topics I read, but people still insist on it. And what really makes me angry is that aquariums are just fine for water turtles. No one says, keep your your res in a fifty gallon rubbermaid because the glass will stress them. So, are water turtles just stupid and don't know to be stressed or are they really smart and know that funny barrier is there for my protection. All animals, turtles included, will try to escape an inclosier and that doesn't mean they're stressed. My russian occasionally paces but so do turtles in sightless containers. If you have another argument about glass fine, but please stop the whole stress issue. Now let the debate begin.



What exactly is your point?

NERD


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## dmmj (Jul 11, 2010)

I always say keep your RES in anythig other than a aquarium, I see water turtles constantly trying to swim thru the glass, when I see them in pet stores and the like, so I say your argument is without merit myself.


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## terryo (Jul 11, 2010)

I've kept all my boxies, for over 30 years...that had to stay inside because they were too young to go out....in glass vivariums. I've kept Pio in a class viv. for all three years of his life. Never had a problem with them being stressed. I like to interact with my animals. When I pass by I like to look at them and let them see me. Sometimes they just sit and watch me.....I guess I am their entertainment.


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## Terry Allan Hall (Jul 11, 2010)

dmmj said:


> I always say keep your RES in anythig other than a aquarium, I see water turtles constantly trying to swim thru the glass, when I see them in pet stores and the like, so I say your argument is without merit myself.



I'm thinking it may well be how the glass enclosure is laid out and quite likely how large it is, as well...a roomy container w/ interesting things to do is going to be less stressful than a tiny, boring area (don't guess you've been in jail, but that's pretty much how they are...)


terryo said:


> I've kept all my boxies, for over 30 years...that had to stay inside because they were too young to go out....in glass vivariums. I've kept Pio in a class viv. for all three years of his life. Never had a problem with them being stressed. I like to interact with my animals. When I pass by I like to look at them and let them see me. Sometimes they just sit and watch me.....I guess I am their entertainment.



Your enclosures are so natural looking that they likely convince your pets that they're at home, in the wild...nothing stressful about that!


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## Tom (Jul 11, 2010)

Terry Allan Hall said:


> dmmj said:
> 
> 
> > I always say keep your RES in anythig other than a aquarium, I see water turtles constantly trying to swim thru the glass, when I see them in pet stores and the like, so I say your argument is without merit myself.
> ...



If I was one of TerryO's animals, I'd be worried that something was going to jump out of all those bushes and GET me!!! I'd be stressed all the time!

Haha. Just kidding.


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## dmmj (Jul 11, 2010)

I can say 100% I have not had the pleasure of ever seeing out prison system in person, not even county jail, am I missing something from not having the experience?


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## Tom (Jul 11, 2010)

Jeez, Jack! You don't waste any time!

I've used glass aquariums for all my reptiles, including turtles and tortoises for 30 years (31 years in Sept.). A few nervous nellie lizards needed a sight barrier, but other than that it has never been a problem. I like that they hold in heat and humidity by restricting air flow. This allows me to use smaller bulbs to save energy and maintain better humidity in my super dry climate up here in the high desert.


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## dolfanjack (Jul 11, 2010)

[glass aquariums are not evil, does'nt cause stress and there is no reason people shouldn't recommened them as a suitable habitat for smaller turtles/tortoises.
quote='Redfoot NERD' pid='148380' dateline='1278889262']


dolfanjack said:


> I am so tired of the matra, glass stresses land turtles. I see no proof of this, in my own experiences and in topics I read, but people still insist on it. And what really makes me angry is that aquariums are just fine for water turtles. No one says, keep your your res in a fifty gallon rubbermaid because the glass will stress them. So, are water turtles just stupid and don't know to be stressed or are they really smart and know that funny barrier is there for my protection. All animals, turtles included, will try to escape an inclosier and that doesn't mean they're stressed. My russian occasionally paces but so do turtles in sightless containers. If you have another argument about glass fine, but please stop the whole stress issue. Now let the debate begin.



What exactly is your point?

NERD
[/quote]

Because Aquariums make ideal homes for many turtles/tortoises (especially boxies) and the people who say they make poor homes because the glass causes stress is all wrong.


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## Candy (Jul 11, 2010)

Tom said:


> Terry Allan Hall said:
> 
> 
> > dmmj said:
> ...



Tom you are too funny!  Terry Chewy is such a cutie pie I can't stand it. I love to see those eyes. 

Jeez, Jack! You don't waste any time!

That's exactly what I was thinking when I read this thread.


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## Maggie Cummings (Jul 11, 2010)

I have 10 glass aquariums with various chelonia in them as we speak. I personally like them because I can see what's going on without getting up, for those in my living room and I think it's easier to regulate the heat. I think you have to be sure that you don't cause it to get too hot. But I think that's just another old wives tale that more modern times will find is useless...All of mine are 200 gallons or more and several are vivs, that means they are square with short sides. They are very popular in Great Britain and they don't feel the way most American keepers do about glass containers...


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## Madkins007 (Jul 11, 2010)

I think there are several aspects to this belief.

Point: Tortoises in outdoor pens will often try to force their way through any opening they can see or stick their head through and either escape or become injured- hence, we strive to create a barrier to prevent that.

Point: Some turtles and tortoises either become fixated on escaping thorough a specific corner or point in a wall, or begin to pace glass walls. These behaviors may have nothing to do with the walls being glass- they may have more to do with size and layout, boredom, etc. but a visual barrier often changes the behavior.

Point: There is a lot of dislike of aquariums for turtles and tortoises in general. I think a lot of this springs mostly from the tendency to use too small of a space for the animals rather than any real problems with properly sized and set-up glass-walled habitats.

Combine all of this, mix with a tendency to err on the side of caution (or over-react, depending on your viewpoint), and we tend to tell people to not use aquariums, and if you do, you need to do some other stuff, like the visual barriers.

I admit that I still have a hard time seeing aquarium-based habitats in an unbiased way after thinking they were bad for so long, but I am trying to change and see the habitat rather than just what the outer walls are made of.


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## Terry Allan Hall (Jul 12, 2010)

dmmj said:


> I can say 100% I have not had the pleasure of ever seeing out prison system in person, not even county jail, am I missing something from not having the experience?



Lousy room service...1/2 star hotel, at best.


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## moswen (Jul 12, 2010)

I haven't read every reply bc I'm on my phone and sweeping from side to side to read every line... Tiresome. But I soak my torts in clear containers, mostly old spring mix boxes, but I do that bc it makes them more active during their soak and a more active tort usually ends in a nice little pile of excrement... That much less that I don't have to clean out of their pen! I think mostly the problems with glass vivs boil down to when an inexperienced or inattentive tort owner gets the temps too high, with the high glass walls it's harder for heat to escape. I don't really know though, just my thoughts.

ALTHOUGH, in "never been kissed" with drew barrymore I seem to remember her box turtle housed in glass and on rabbit pellets trying pretty furiously to escape his place of non-refuge


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## Yourlocalpoet (Jul 12, 2010)

maggie3fan said:


> I have 10 glass aquariums with various chelonia in them as we speak. I personally like them because I can see what's going on without getting up, for those in my living room and I think it's easier to regulate the heat. I think you have to be sure that you don't cause it to get too hot. But I think that's just another old wives tale that more modern times will find is useless...All of mine are 200 gallons or more and several are vivs, that means they are square with short sides. They are very popular in Great Britain and they don't feel the way most American keepers do about glass containers...



I concur, I kept my tortoise in a viv until she was about 4 years old, never had any problems at all, never once had a vet visit. I think initially because the reptile centre we got her from advised us this was what we should do. The viv's are easier to keep humid and as previously stated you can sit and watch your tortoise for as long as you want, providing they're not hiding out that is! I think if you're informed and you know how to care for your tortoise then there isn't a problem, however I have witnessed a friend who kept her tortoise in the same viv that it came in as a baby and the poor thing could hardly turn around in it, apparently she was adamant that a tortoise would only grow as big as its enclosure warranted.


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## Tom (Jul 12, 2010)

Yourlocalpoet said:


> maggie3fan said:
> 
> 
> > I think if you're informed and you know how to care for your tortoise then there isn't a problem, however I have witnessed a friend who kept her tortoise in the same viv that it came in as a baby and the poor thing could hardly turn around in it, apparently she was adamant that a tortoise would only grow as big as its enclosure warranted.
> ...


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## Yourlocalpoet (Jul 12, 2010)

Ha ha, what a beast! I believe she gave him to the local tortoise sanctuary, which i must admit was a huge relief for me! I used to lose sleep over that little guy in that fish tank! It was a Horsefield so it wasn't even that big, so you can imagine how small the tank was!


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## Madkins007 (Jul 12, 2010)

Tom said:


> Actually, the carrying capacity of the environment has a LOT to do with genetic programming, and there are other factors involved as well. Animals that live in sub-optimal habitats often grow up smaller than their better-support cousins. Key deer, dwarf animal populations, etc. Even amongst tortoises- most of them are smaller than the fossil record and many experts feel it is due to a less supportive environment.
> 
> But, but that is not quite what you meant, is it?
> 
> The whole 'grow to the tank size' thing is really annoying. If the animal DOES turn out stunted, they say 'See, it works!' instead of the more proper 'Oh my gosh, look at how distorted the poor thing is!'


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## dolfanjack (Jul 13, 2010)

Thank you for all your replys. I have always believed that any animal needs room for exercise and an environment that stimulates them so they are not bored. All this can be done with glass not just wood and plastic. It just bothers me that newbies get into the hobbie to enjoy their new pets and well meaning people tell them they need to keep them in a habitat were they can't even view them. I respect all of you and i'm glad I found this website. jack


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## Terry Allan Hall (Jul 14, 2010)

dolfanjack said:


> Thank you for all your replys. I have always believed that any animal needs room for exercise and an environment that stimulates them so they are not bored. All this can be done with glass not just wood and plastic. It just bothers me that newbies get into the hobbie to enjoy their new pets and well meaning people tell them they need to keep them in a habitat were they can't even view them. I respect all of you and i'm glad I found this website. jack


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## firework (Jul 16, 2010)

In my opinion, the turtle can tell the other side of the glass is not water, it will not try to swim through that glass.

Tortoise might be different because it walks.


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## Candy (Jul 16, 2010)

The only experience that I have with glass is when I got Dale and kept him in a 40 gallon aquarium. He rubbed his nose raw on the glass, that's all.


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## Tom (Jul 16, 2010)

Candy said:


> The only experience that I have with glass is when I got Dale and kept him in a 40 gallon aquarium. He rubbed his nose raw on the glass, that's all.



I've had a few nervous lizards start to do that, but a simple visual barrier stopped it instantly. I use tape and a brown paper bag cut to size. None of my turtles and torts ever did that.

Did you try the visual barrier with Dale, or did you just move him to a different enclosure?


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## PeanutbuttER (Jul 17, 2010)

I was at Petco today and I watched a mom and her son laugh at a russian that was trying to walk through the glass. It just kept walking forward and forward into the glass and he was the only one of the 4 in there that was having any troubles. Poor guys were probably all wild caught, so just being wild caught doesn't necessarily mean they'll struggle with glass. The tank actually had a good sized footprint so he had room to go somewhere else, but he just really wanted through to the other side enclosure.

Oh, and the lady was a jerk. Laughing at a poor confused animal like that. What kind of example is that to set for her son?


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