# My Hermann Tort Just Threw Up! PLEASE HELP! URGENT!



## otisthetortoise (Nov 9, 2018)

Hello,
Otis is three years old, and is a healthy weight / size. She has never experienced any sickness before and I was wondering if this is anything possibly serious and I should take her to the vet tomorrow 

I was bathing her earlier this evening. I bathe her 4/5 times a week for 30minutes to an hour. The day before, I had to leave unusually early so I asked my neighbour to turn on Otis’ lights for me (miserable timing, the timer broke a week ago and I have yet to replace it) as I didn’t want to disrupt her daily 8am-8pm cycle when the lights are on. I came back at 4pm and realised my neighbour had forgotten (I had text/called at 8am but had received no response) - Otis’ lights hadn’t been on since 8pm the night before and she hadn’t been fed. I put them on quickly and left them on for slightly longer before redoing a normal cycle today. 

Then this evening, shortly after coming out of the bath, she got out, stretched out her neck and (seems the most apt word) regurgitated what I could see was a piece of either radicchio or red leaf lettuce (I’m unsure), undigested but slimy. I have it preserved if you want pictures of it (I’ll put them up if so in better light tomorrow).

Now, half an hour since the event, she still is active and bright-eyed. Even after it immediately happens she went on marching around the room seemingly undeterred. But nevertheless I’m going to monitor her very carefully. Can anyone give me any advice? Maybe the weird light cycle or exposure to cooler temperatures for a longer time period caused it? Or maybe the food just didn’t agree with her? Her current diet is Florette’s Crispy Salad (cold temps here in UK make weeds pretty scarce) and if I can source some, plantain & dandelion leaves. She also has a cuttlefish bone that she loves. Her substrate is topsoil, kept damp, humidity never falls below 70%, her lamps are UV & basking bulb (separate). Please let me know if you want any more details.

I live in the UK so it is quite cold at the moment but it never falls below around 17 degrees C in the house. She is really acting normal and lively now as if it never happened, but obviously better safe than sorry! 

Please give any advice you may possibly have. I feel awful about the neighbour/lights incident as it is, I just want to make sure she’s okay. 
Thank you!!
Olivia


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## otisthetortoise (Nov 9, 2018)

May I just add the “sick” really didn’t have any liquid, it was just a slimy leaf (I presume with stomach fluid I don’t know) and a bit smelly.


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## otisthetortoise (Nov 9, 2018)

There’s also a chance the leaf she ate could’ve been old and not fresh, sometimes the packs go bad quickly and I suppose I could have not looked closely enough ( I feel awful...


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## drew54 (Nov 9, 2018)

Post pictures of your enclosure and four temps. Also post some pictures of the vomit and of your tort (mainly because we like seeing everyone's torts). But the other info and pics are necessary to help the experts assist you.


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## otisthetortoise (Nov 9, 2018)

drew54 said:


> Post pictures of your enclosure and four temps. Also post some pictures of the vomit and of your tort (mainly because we like seeing everyone's torts). But the other info and pics are necessary to help the experts assist you.


It is late at night here and Otis is asleep, I took some pictures of her like that and turned the lights on momentarily so you can see the enclosure better. I only have one thermometer inside the enclosure at the cooler end because any I put in at the hotter end she tries to barge into and bury it as it irks her when she’s basking! She’s quite boisterous. However I measure it whenever she is having a bath and it usually ranks at 33-36 degrees C.

Here are some photos of the enclosure, vomited leaf & temps. I really hope they are helpful. If any of them are in bad lighting I apologise, I’ll try and do better ones tomorrow!
Thank you, 
Olivia


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## Maro2Bear (Nov 9, 2018)

I guess it is very likely that the one leaf just got stuck/caught in your tort’s mouth and throat. Doubt the lights have any impact on that. Soak well tomorrow. Keep a good eye. It sounds like all is back to normal, i really doubt that a vet visit will accomplish anything.

Good luck.


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## drew54 (Nov 9, 2018)

It sound as though she has a particular way she likes her enclosure. That makes me laugh that she does that to the thermometer. Keep up soaks and keep posting pictures and updates. If you happen to record her reaction to the thermometer pleas post it.


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## otisthetortoise (Nov 10, 2018)

drew54 said:


> It sound as though she has a particular way she likes her enclosure. That makes me laugh that she does that to the thermometer. Keep up soaks and keep posting pictures and updates. If you happen to record her reaction to the thermometer pleas post it.



I will try and record it!
UPDATE:
I was giving her a soak just now as she’s awake & before she had gotten in (she was still very much dry) she made a sort of squelchy sound, like she was gargling water it sounded a bit like, or the sound she makes when she sneezes... she’d been opening her mouth and yawning a few times but I don’t know if that’s anything or she was just tired still. Then I saw little bubbles out of her mouth - it looked like what human saliva would look like but was only a tiny dribble. I’m bathing her now but my concern is rising! Should I take her to the vet? Could it be an RI? 
Olivia


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## Mo & Bolt (Nov 10, 2018)

As a retired nurse I would say one vomit no problem, just carry on. Repeated vomits ? Bowel movement when last one could he be blocked up, passing urates is he toxic. That bit of lettuce he brought up looks long and stringy , he may not be able to chomp it into smaller pieces?? . Good luck hope he keeps well . I am only just learning so any advise for torts that won't eat I would appreciate. Thanks Gill


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## otisthetortoise (Nov 10, 2018)

Mo & Bolt said:


> As a retired nurse I would say one vomit no problem, just carry on. Repeated vomits ? Bowel movement when last one could he be blocked up, passing urates is he toxic. That bit of lettuce he brought up looks long and stringy , he may not be able to chomp it into smaller pieces?? . Good luck hope he keeps well . I am only just learning so any advise for torts that won't eat I would appreciate. Thanks Gill


I’m watching vigilantly and I have also chopped up her food into smaller pieces so it’s easier to digest.

UPDATE: Otis seems to be making cracking/wheezing? It’s not very loud at all and I did video it but it says the file is too large to upload  it can only be heard when I am very close to her. Steers me towards a possible RI?? Please, please help anybody. I didn’t take her to the vets today because she has been lively as ever and eating/drinking; checking her symptoms online didn’t seem to produce any concrete results either. It’ll be closed tomorrow (Sunday) so Monday is my best bet if I do end up taking her.


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## Maro2Bear (Nov 10, 2018)

otisthetortoise said:


> I’m watching vigilantly and I have also chopped up her food into smaller pieces so it’s easier to digest.
> 
> UPDATE: Otis seems to be making cracking/wheezing? It’s not very loud at all and I did video it but it says the file is too large to upload  it can only be heard when I am very close to her. Steers me towards a possible RI?? Please, please help anybody. I didn’t take her to the vets today because she has been lively as ever and eating/drinking; checking her symptoms online didn’t seem to produce any concrete results either. It’ll be closed tomorrow (Sunday) so Monday is my best bet if I do end up taking her.




To upload video, you first need to upload to YouTube. Then, once on YT, you copy the URL into your post here on the Forum. The forum doesnt support video files directly like .jpeg picture files.

You might want to increase your temperatures based on wheezing.


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## Mo & Bolt (Nov 10, 2018)

So sorry I can't tell u any more on tort wheeze. I feel if he is bright, eating well, moving well passing urates and no bubbles coming from mouth or nose, and his eyes are clear, no runny poo. He should be fine to see vet Monday. You could try having a look down his throat to see if he has any of that last vomit leaf lodged in his throat. They open their mouths very wide and will lift up their head for one of their favourite foods. And do it under the lamp and get a good view down. That's all I can suggest as a human minor illness nurse lol. Don't know how to listen to a torts chest . Good luck


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## otisthetortoise (Nov 10, 2018)

Mo & Bolt said:


> So sorry I can't tell u any more on tort wheeze. I feel if he is bright, eating well, moving well passing urates and no bubbles coming from mouth or nose, and his eyes are clear, no runny poo. He should be fine to see vet Monday. You could try having a look down his throat to see if he has any of that last vomit leaf lodged in his throat. They open their mouths very wide and will lift up their head for one of their favourite foods. And do it under the lamp and get a good view down. That's all I can suggest as a human minor illness nurse lol. Don't know how to listen to a torts chest . Good luck


Thank you so much for your input! I’ve inspected her throat but it all seems clear; her mouth is pink like normal; she hasn’t foamed or vomited again, it was only the once. Still, I am checking on her regularly! Her temps have been raised, and she basked for a long while - she’s now napping. She hasn’t pooped today but she did yesterday, and it was normal. Haven’t actually seen urates for awhile now (I think a week?) but I don’t think they’re meant to be constantly passed. Eyes are bright and normal and she’s moving as energetically as ever. I’m hoping these symptoms are just a blip..! Hopefully vet on Mon will confirm.. 
Thank you again!


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## otisthetortoise (Nov 10, 2018)

Maro2Bear said:


> To upload video, you first need to upload to YouTube. Then, once on YT, you copy the URL into your post here on the Forum. The forum doesnt support video files directly like .jpeg picture files.
> 
> You might want to increase your temperatures based on wheezing.


I see! Thank you for telling me.
Here are the two videos, then (I’d suggest a high volume to actually hear her, it’s fairly quiet!)-









I’d like to add the crusty brown stuff visible on her face is a mix of the Mazuri I gave her earlier and soil from burying - her nose isn’t blocked in any way, and it isn’t her skin flaking! 

Anyway, does this seem like an RI to anybody? Thank you so much.
Olivia


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## crimson_lotus (Nov 10, 2018)

how much did you raise the temperatures? 17c is a bit chilly so there could potentially be an RI. To keep your temps up you could cover the top of the enclosure with tin foil, or at least some of it.

Also, just a possibility, but have you de-wormed your tortoise ever?


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## otisthetortoise (Nov 11, 2018)

crimson_lotus said:


> how much did you raise the temperatures? 17c is a bit chilly so there could potentially be an RI. To keep your temps up you could cover the top of the enclosure with tin foil, or at least some of it.
> 
> Also, just a possibility, but have you de-wormed your tortoise ever?


Hi, Otis’ hot spot is now 38c and her cooler area is 25c (I was wondering if this was *too* warm?). I’ve been replenishing her water dish so she can drink or soak in fresh water whenever she wants to. I kept the heating on at night so it didn’t fall below and also partially covered with foil. I am going to bathe her today and see if any symptoms persist (she hasn’t shown anything abnormal since her bath yesterday). When I felt her shell, it was warm and she’s been basking but also going into the cool area, I assume to regulate.
No, I have never had Otis de-wormed; do you think this is a possibility? I’ll look into it. Thank you for your advice!


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## JoesMum (Nov 11, 2018)

otisthetortoise said:


> Hi, Otis’ hot spot is now 38c and her cooler area is 25c (I was wondering if this was *too* warm?). I’ve been replenishing her water dish so she can drink or soak in fresh water whenever she wants to. I kept the heating on at night so it didn’t fall below and also partially covered with foil. I am going to bathe her today and see if any symptoms persist (she hasn’t shown anything abnormal since her bath yesterday). When I felt her shell, it was warm and she’s been basking but also going into the cool area, I assume to regulate.
> No, I have never had Otis de-wormed; do you think this is a possibility? I’ll look into it. Thank you for your advice!


You ambient of 25C converts to 77F. With a sick tortoise, it should be 80F (27C) minimum day and night.

If you don't have one already, get a Ceramic Heat Emitter and a thermostat. The thermostat can be set to 27C and allows the CHE to run 24/7 as it only allows the CHE to cut in when the temperature drops.

To be absolutely certain of the spot temperatures in the enclosure you do need a temperature gun type thermometer like this:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Thermometer-Zanmax-Non-Contact-Temperature-Indication/dp/B07CJ1SJYX/

Your basking temperature shouldn't get any hotter than 38C and that needs to be the temperature at tortoise level... the topmof his shell when basking... not on the floor


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## otisthetortoise (Nov 11, 2018)

JoesMum said:


> You ambient of 25C converts to 77F. With a sick tortoise, it should be 80F (27C) minimum day and night.
> 
> If you don't have one already, get a Ceramic Heat Emitter and a thermostat. The thermostat can be set to 27C and allows the CHE to run 24/7 as it only allows the CHE to cut in when the temperature drops.
> 
> ...


Just ordered all that you recommended! Thank you. I’ve also upped temperature in the cooler area. I’m going to update how Otis is after her soak tonight. She’s been eating and drinking and moving normally, with no symptoms, so I hope she’s okay and I was just being paranoid..! 
Olivia


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## otisthetortoise (Nov 11, 2018)

UPDATE:
Just to anybody who’s interested, after bathing Otis tonight nothing happened; no vomiting, no stretching out her neck or spitting bubbles/dribble, or anything out the ordinary. One thing I did notice is that she was drinking a lot more than she usually does, so I bathed her for an hour and a bit to make sure she was nice and hydrated. Also been replenishing her water bowl regularly.

BUT:
The only thing that did happen during the soak was that when I was drying her, she opened her mouth. There was no gasping sound or anything, she was silent, and it was for half a second - so I don’t think it was a yawn, as when she yawns it’s usually longer and, like when a human does, involves more movement. I’ve been listening for more wheezing/cracking sounds like the videos I posted but have heard nothing, but I understand tortoises with blockages or RIs tend to open their mouths to gasp for air? Though she doesn’t seem to have trouble breathing and she’s super energetic, eating normally and eagerly, drinking, etc.

I’m not taking her to the vet’s tomorrow because she seems fine currently, and I just can’t really spend the forty quid if it’s futile... of course if anything worsens I’ll take her - I’m monitoring her very closely. Fingers crossed it won’t come to going to the vet’s.
Thank you so much everybody for your help 

Olivia


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## Maro2Bear (Nov 11, 2018)

Good luck, fingers crossed for you. Sounds like you are on the right track. Thanks for the regular updates and make sure you closely monitor your temperatures.


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## otisthetortoise (Nov 21, 2018)

Maro2Bear said:


> Good luck, fingers crossed for you. Sounds like you are on the right track. Thanks for the regular updates and make sure you closely monitor your temperatures.


Just wanted to say thank you! To you and to everyone who helped 
Just thought I'd update you and say that Otis is doing splendidly. She has been energetic, eating, drinking ever since I last posted. No symptoms of any kind have been spotted. The only thing I did notice was that she hadn't pooped (to my knowledge) for nearly a week and so I was keeping a close eye on that, regular soaks and higher temps to ensure she was warm and hydrated. And she pooped today!! I never thought I'd be so relieved to see er, that. But it was a damn near perfect one too. Sorry, I'm aware that it is a bit grim in retrospect to be happy and talk about this in such an enthused manner, but 

Thanks again, from me and from Otis!


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## drew54 (Nov 21, 2018)

otisthetortoise said:


> Just wanted to say thank you! To you and to everyone who helped
> Just thought I'd update you and say that Otis is doing splendidly. She has been energetic, eating, drinking ever since I last posted. No symptoms of any kind have been spotted. The only thing I did notice was that she hadn't pooped (to my knowledge) for nearly a week and so I was keeping a close eye on that, regular soaks and higher temps to ensure she was warm and hydrated. And she pooped today!! I never thought I'd be so relieved to see er, that. But it was a damn near perfect one too. Sorry, I'm aware that it is a bit grim in retrospect to be happy and talk about this in such an enthused manner, but
> 
> Thanks again, from me and from Otis!


That's good to hear! Keep posting pics and updates.


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