# Thread on FERTILIZERS



## christinaland128 (Aug 26, 2015)

Hi all! Im trying to find a thread here on the use of fertilizers? Which are harmful, or a useful thread on homemade fertilizers. Thanks!


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## SarahChelonoidis (Aug 26, 2015)

Seaweed and fish emulsions are two classic "pet safe" fertilizer options that I've used with good success. They're high in nitrogen though, so you do have to consider what your soil/plants need. Bone meal is another good, safe amendment to add to acidic soils lacking phosphorous. All three may encourage substrate eating, so you'd have to watch for that. I'm curious what other people use.


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## Grandpa Turtle 144 (Aug 26, 2015)

christinaland128 said:


> Hi all! Im trying to find a thread here on the use of fertilizers? Which are harmful, or a useful thread on homemade fertilizers. Thanks!


What are you trying to fertilize ? But I would say you use compost tea !


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## johnsonnboswell (Aug 26, 2015)

Use compost as potting soil, to top dress beds, as substrate. It's nutrient rich. Make your own so you know it's organic. 

The only other fertilizer I use is the water I capture when I clean the filter in the fish tank or turtle pond.


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## christinaland128 (Aug 26, 2015)

Grandpa Turtle 144 said:


> What are you trying to fertilize ? But I would say you use compost tea !


I'm not trying to fertilize anything. I was trying to explain to someone else that it's not good to buy fertilized plants from the store.


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## jaizei (Aug 26, 2015)

christinaland128 said:


> I'm not trying to fertilize anything. I was trying to explain to someone else that it's not good to buy fertilized plants from the store.



That's not necessarily true. It's the systemic pesticides that would presumably be harmful.

One of the zigzags in logic I've seen is that systemic pesticides in plants at Lowes = bad. Systemic pesticides in (conventionally grown) produce at grocery store = ok. Doesn't really make sense to me.


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## Tom (Aug 26, 2015)

jaizei said:


> That's not necessarily true. It's the systemic pesticides that would presumably be harmful.
> 
> One of the zigzags in logic I've seen is that systemic pesticides in plants at Lowes = bad. Systemic pesticides in (conventionally grown) produce at grocery store = ok. Doesn't really make sense to me.



This is only a zig zag in _your _ logic.

Obviously it has to do with the levels of concentration, toxicity and pesticidal compounds being used on food intended and labeled for human consumption vs. plants that are intended for decorative use.


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## Tom (Aug 26, 2015)

christinaland128 said:


> I'm not trying to fertilize anything. I was trying to explain to someone else that it's not good to buy fertilized plants from the store.



Jaizei is right in that there is not necessarily anything wrong with "fertilizer". All plants must have it. While we don't want our tortoises eating piles of raw chemical fertilizer, its really not a problem for them, or us, to eat plants that were grown with appropriately used fertilizers fertilizer.

The problem with store bought plants that are intended for garden and decorative use is that the commercial nurseries growth them with systemic pesticides that are absorbed into the plant's tissues to keep the bugs from wanting to eat them.


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## christinaland128 (Aug 26, 2015)

Ok thank you everyone. It's always been a bit confusing to me. I have bought a few plants from Lowes. I've planted them in hopes that we'll be in the clear by next Spring. But this friend of mine was talking about fertilizing his hibiscus to help it grow. I wasn't sure if commercial fertilizers such as Miracle Gro were ok. @Tom @jaizei


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## domalle (Aug 26, 2015)

Tom said:


> Jaizei is right in that there is not necessarily anything wrong with "fertilizer". All plants must have it. While we don't want our tortoises eating piles of raw chemical fertilizer, its really not a problem for them, or us, to eat plants that were grown with appropriately used fertilizers fertilizer.
> 
> The problem with store bought plants that are intended for garden and decorative use is that the commercial nurseries growth them with systemic pesticides that are absorbed into the plant's tissues to keep the bugs from wanting to eat them.



Don't take this wrong but systemic pesticides applied to plants do not keep bugs "from wanting to eat them." It kills the bugs that feed on them.
Just a small quibble.


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## Tom (Aug 26, 2015)

domalle said:


> Don't take this wrong but systemic pesticides applied to plants do not keep bugs "from wanting to eat them." It kills the bugs that feed on them.
> Just a small quibble.



Not taking it the wrong way. I like to be corrected when I'm wrong.

However in this case, I do believe the pesticides have some sort of a "repellent" quality. Its all fine if the offending bugs die after consumption, but the act of consumption would leave the plant in a less marketable state. I don't see any sign of chewing or insect damage on the plants for sale at my local hardware stores and nurseries. If these toxins only killed them after the fact, would there not be some damage on the plants?

Please inform me and anyone reading? I'm just making assumptions based on what I see.


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## domalle (Aug 26, 2015)

Tom said:


> Not taking it the wrong way. I like to be corrected when I'm wrong.
> 
> However in this case, I do believe the pesticides have some sort of a "repellent" quality. Its all fine if the offending bugs die after consumption, but the act of consumption would leave the plant in a less marketable state. I don't see any sign of chewing or insect damage on the plants for sale at my local hardware stores and nurseries. If these toxins only killed them after the fact, would there not be some damage on the plants?
> 
> Please inform me and anyone reading? I'm just making assumptions based on what I see.



It depends on the particular pest's mouthparts.
Damage from chewing insects like caterpillars is plainly visible on plant leaves and parts and is controlled by contact sprays and poisons. 
Many sucking insects and scale which have a protective cover are not affected by contact insecticides
and are killed by ingestion thru sucking and feeding on plant fluids containing these systemic agents.
Systemic insecticides are taken up and absorbed through the plant's system and in turn sucked out of the plant.
But you could be right. They may have some repellant properties as well.


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## johnsonnboswell (Aug 27, 2015)

Nurseries use fungicides, too.


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## Tom (Aug 27, 2015)

johnsonnboswell said:


> Nurseries use fungicides, too.



Yes they do. Good point.

I was looking to buy some roses and the lady made it seem matter-of-fact that if I didn't apply the fungicide, then there was simply no way my new roses would be okay, and that, of course they applied it to all the plants there at the nursery. She was incredulous when I expressed that I didn't want to be spraying toxic chemicals around my yard. Her attitude suggested she could not comprehend my insanity...


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## jaizei (Aug 27, 2015)

Tom said:


> Not taking it the wrong way. I like to be corrected when I'm wrong.
> 
> However in this case, I do believe the pesticides have some sort of a "repellent" quality. Its all fine if the offending bugs die after consumption, but the act of consumption would leave the plant in a less marketable state. I don't see any sign of chewing or insect damage on the plants for sale at my local hardware stores and nurseries. If these toxins only killed them after the fact, would there not be some damage on the plants?
> 
> Please inform me and anyone reading? I'm just making assumptions based on what I see.




There may be damage that you don't notice; the insects don't have the opportunity to continue to feed to the point that the damage has accumulated to be noticeable. After a few crops, continued use can create dead zones where the insects can't sustain a population. Even if the insects are able to lay eggs before dying, it's unlikely that the offspring will live to adulthood to reproduce. So over time there are fewer and fewer insects. 

_When insects feed on the treated plant (leaves or wood the pests eventually die. You may still see insects on a treated plant, and you may even see some damage. Using a systemic insecticide doesn’t keep insects from touching a plant, but it does kill them as they feed._

http://www.bayeradvanced.com/articles/fall-strategies-to-control-spring-pests


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## johnsonnboswell (Aug 27, 2015)

Damaged leaves may have been removed before we see them.


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## Prairie Mom (Aug 27, 2015)

I've used the fish emulsion, but will only use it where my tortoise cannot access.-It can still be pretty potent stuff.

Composting really does improve your soil quality. I don't even use a compost bin. I just keep a lidded bucket under the sink for my green waste and go out and bury it every so often. Even tilled in Autumn leaves make a HUGE difference in your soil quality and plant growth.

Also, grow legumes and till them into the ground. Throw some of your tortoise's clover or rye grass around the bottoms of your potted hibiscus plants etc and every so often hand till it into the pot, so it can decompose as a natural nitrogen boost. Try to let your "cover crop" or green manure get as mature as possible before tilling it in.

I also use aged manure which organic gardeners tend to debate about. I use only vegetarian animals's dung like horses and cows, so I'm not too concerned. I mix the manure in my dirt pretty well and have not noticed my tortoise try to eat any of it. I also try my best to apply it in the late Autumn, so it has the whole winter to settle in.


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