# so what about pyramiding and the CDT



## LittlefootNCera (Dec 20, 2011)

My older girl (I was told in 30s, not sure if this is correct) is smooth(and gorgeous) my younger tort is going on 2yrs. The younger one does have some pyramiding(she was raised from hatchling, dry) is there anything I can or should do now to help this? Right now I'm feeding: santa barbara mix, spring mix, greens mix, and grassland tortoise food occassionally.

(Btw, for Angela or Yvonne who may be reading...Littlefoot is coming around. I decided to listen to my gut and I didn't give her the rxd meds. She no longer has the snot bubbles and I've found poop, seen her drink(though it looked at first like she was trying to drown herself during her soak *wink*) and she's eaten once(maybe twice..but its something) she's moving around more and seems very alert when she is(no more lethargy) besides occassionally flipping herself(this morning found her on her back under the CHE and am scared to death she will die this way) she's doing much better. After the holidays I am going to make her a 3ft/12ft/2ft(tall) wooden enclosure to house her for the rest of the winter and I am going to frame the inside so she can't pull anymore of this funny business)


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## Yvonne G (Dec 20, 2011)

I think with the desert tortoises, it has an awful lot to do with no real sunshine. (Pyramiding) Almost all of the pyramided desert tortoises that I've taken in came to me with having been raised in the house with no sunshine. Of course, along with that is probably the dry, dry, dry syndrome too, but I think no sun is the real culprit.


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## ascott (Dec 20, 2011)

AWESOME!!! I am sincerely happy to hear that she is coming round, they are lovely and hardy if allowed to do what they do....you also have set her up a place to settle in a bit...good job.

I am going to say things here in response to our thread title that will likely have folks telling me to kick rocks....but I am alright with that---I look for any reason to take a stroll most days 

I have NEVER EVER seen a wild CDT in its wildland show any signs of pyramiding...ever. I have done loads of personal observation, I have stalked many a CDT quietly across the desert to see what they do.... so I have seen this myself, without anyone telling me what I should be seeing, but rather seeing first hand..(and feel blessed to have).. 

I have however seen way too many with mild to severe pyramiding in captive situations---with the more severe being on captive born and raised (to me this is just one of the reasons that I so eagerly promote the request for folks to NOT HOUSE MALES/FEMALES in the same enclosure---also, it is illegal to house together, for a multitude of other reasons)

I could go on and on as to MY beliefs as to why they suffer pyramiding in captive situations ---but I do not know that this is what you have this thread for?????



> I think with the desert tortoises, it has an awful lot to do with no real sunshine. (Pyramiding) Almost all of the pyramided desert tortoises that I've taken in came to me with having been raised in the house with no sunshine. Of course, along with that is probably the dry, dry, dry syndrome too, but I think no sun is the real culprit.




D I T T O


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## LittlefootNCera (Dec 20, 2011)

Well, basically, I want to know if there is anything I can do FROM HERE ON OUT to help my younger cdts pyramiding shell not get worse(is this possible?). I'm very much in this for the long haul and want to be the best host possible. I see so many posts here(most for those raising hatchlings) about preventing etc, but I've never seen our CDTs mentioned, mostly sulcatas, etc(others, lol)


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## dmmj (Dec 20, 2011)

For some reason it is not as prevalent as the other species, maybe because less hatchlings are produced than leos and sullies. I have seen many many wild CDT's often as a outing with my CTTC chapter, we do several trips a year into the desert to clean up after all of those evil dirt bike rides  To date I also have never seen a wild CDT that is pyramided, I think mainly because most of the CDT's in captivity are WC, mine was raised as a hatchling I got it at age 17 (the tortoise was 17), and I can't see no pyramiding.


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## ascott (Dec 20, 2011)

In my opinion, you need to set up a secure outside location for your little one---I have all adults or near adults----mine are outside all year except for end of fall through winter (this year they went into brumation Nov 1).

I also believe that you need to seed their yards heavily starting in January so that seeds will have time to germinate and sprout by the time they are going to be out .....also, my property has began to become the desert again---native natural grasses, mallows (so many last year came back, it was awesome) filaree and a variety of others...

I usually do not supplement my CDTs until around end of July-start of August through September---and that is usually when they have mowed down a majority of their grown goods---also that time is when they get the goodies they devour---watermelon, romaine, red leaf lettuce, squash, rose flowers and leaves, hibiscus flowers and leaves, hollyhock flowers and leaves, elm leaves, mimosa leaves and if the winter has been good to the ground they will also get california poppy, goldfields, and LOADS AND LOADS of Dandelion flower and greens (these however I have to go and collect every other day from a trusted source)....they will pack in all year but really amp it up during the supplement times...then around the start of October, I stop all supplements---they will still munch on some remaining grasses, filaree and spurge and they will only be supplied water by me---this is the mean time of year---the time I am the meannie....suuuuucccksss but necessary, I will also cover their burrow entrances/burrow like hides so that they can not disappear and slip into brumation outdoors....they get darn right pissed about this mean trick...but they are slowing down in that they do not fight it ---well, yeah they do--two of mine get really foot tapping hands on shell maaaad....

These are just the things that I do and have done and seem to work out for them......

I have one old man that has poor eyesight so the last couple of years he goes out all day and into the dark time then I collect him and he sleeps in his winter box in the closet during the night then right back out each morning....however, this year I believe I can safely set him up so that he can remain out full time as the other guys...we will have to see....

Sun, great food, sun, water soaking dish and sprinkler action during the summer and sun and oh yeah a nice snug burrow/burrow like hide is also good, nothing compares to this, IMHO....however you have to be diligent in making sure that burrow remains in safe condition for your little one by periodic structure checks ....

here is a great reference site for burrow construction;

http://www.azgfd.gov/w_c/tortoise/burrow.shtml


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## LittlefootNCera (Dec 20, 2011)

THANKYOU!
Unfortunately, my backyard is mostly POOL and DOG. So I choose a seperate and fenced off from pool/dog area to house the torts. It backs to the house and is created in a previous rock/tree bed(good because cemented all the way around which, imo, makes it safe if she decides to try and dig out(shell end up under concrete slab(and not a neighbors yard or worse) and bad because its pretty small(12ftX10ft) so I capped off the sprinkler and have been hand watering the "garden" and tree. The area for her hide is protectd from water by the eves of my house and my plan was to add a raised dog house...either wooden or an igloo type. Assuming this next year goes great I plan to learn all I can about brumation and even though it makes me nervous, I'm considering a wine fridge. I lived in the highdesert for 5yrs and I've lived here in upland for 3 and I will tell you they may as well be states away the weather is so different. We are still in short sleeved shirts and flipflops and its almost christmas! Even if the air is cool the sun is warm and we have no wind here to speak of. So the garage or house isn't ideal for hibernation/brumation IMO. 

I need to construct a space for my smaller tort. Because of her small size I've 
Considered building her a 3x10 space across the top of littlefoots enclosure creating a
"Patio cover" of sorts for littlefoot. Something simple, like plywood bottom 1x12sides and some topsoil substrate. Just thinking outloud here....I have all next month to work it out.

.......and with that I got way off topic!


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