# Homeschooling - long read... lots of pics...



## chadk (Feb 8, 2010)

This may end up in the debatable topics - as there are so many pros and cons to public vs private vs homeschool vs other schooling options. 

We have close friends who teach in both public and private schools. I grew up in public schools. My wife spent time in both public and private schools. So we are not 'anti-teacher' or 'anti-school'. We simply know we can do a better job teaching our own kids than the public school can. We are fortunate to be in a position to even be able to consider it an option. And both of us are well educated, hardworking, and determined - recipes for success when it comes to homeschooling. 

I could go on and rip the public school system. And if this goes into debate, the ammo is in great supply. But I am aware of many success stories because of and even despite public schools. So I'm not saying that homeschooling is best for everyone and in every situation. It is just what we have determined to be best for OUR family.

Homeschooling has really taken off in this country (and around the world). In fact, it is spreading so fast; many countries are aggressively trying to fight against it. In the US, the education system is strongly against it (in some countries, it is already illegal). It takes away $$$ and power and influence. And those are fighting words when it comes to big gov't. 

Now there are clearly horror stories of 'homeschooling'. Kids isolated and locked in a basement with no exposure to the world outside their home. Not really educated. No real world experience. Maybe even abused in many ways. And that is exactly the picture the gov't would have you see in your head when you hear "home school".

In the last decade, the internet has made homeschooling a much more practical endeavor. Online classes, online curriculum, and online homeschooling groups who share ideas and offer support and valuable resources are growing each year.

There are also many more resources today in many local communities for homeschoolers. There are various homeschool support groups, curriculum groups, and so forth. In many areas, the public school has teamed up with homeschoolers and offers classes and resources that homeschoolers can take advantage of if they wish (some see this as a sort of Ã¢â‚¬Å“Trojan horseÃ¢â‚¬Â and wonÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t use anything offered via the public school system). With all the resources out there, you have many more options for teaching areas you may not want to teach or donÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t have the background to teach: music, art, science, and math for example. You can swap subjects with another parent, or have your kids attend one of the community classes, or find one of the many excellent online\computer offerings.

One of the biggest myths regarding homeschooling has to do with the subject of Ã¢â‚¬ËœsocializationÃ¢â‚¬â„¢. This is a hot button topic on both sides. But studies show that homeschooled children are better socialized in many ways. Spend the day at your local public junior high or high school and youÃ¢â‚¬â„¢ll see that version of Ã¢â‚¬ËœsocializationÃ¢â‚¬â„¢ at work. And youÃ¢â‚¬â„¢ll see a wide spectrum of bad examples and good examples. Many people seem to feel that good socialization is putting their kid on a bus with their peers, sending them off to school for the day where they sit in classes all day with their peers, ride the bus home again with their peers Ã¢â‚¬â€œ and basically learn to think and act and value the same things as everyone else. Group think. Sheeple. Institutionalization. I know, that sounds overally dramatic. But that is my opinion and I see the evidence all the time. Remember, we have 2 girls who just finished Jr High and are now in HS. And my oldest was in K-2nd grade, and second oldest in K-1. So we have our own experiences as kids to draw from, as well as current experiences at different levels.

We strive to have our kids out and interacting with all age groups and in various settings. We want our kids to be able to have a conversation with their peers as well as the elderly. We donÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t care if they are not obsessed with the latest fads and trends. Or know all the cool new words and phrases. Now, they do tend to pick a lot of that up, but the pressure to adopt all that and embrace it to Ã¢â‚¬Ëœfit inÃ¢â‚¬â„¢ is just not there.

We do soccer, tae kwon do, basketball, and other organized sports and classes where they interact with other kids. We are part of a few homeschool groups that get together for field trips, show and tell, kids giving presentations, kids doing music recitals, and so forth. We are active in our church and community. And, of course the kids often play with the other kids in the neighborhood and at the local parks.

Our general approach is to foster a love for learning, reading, and creativity. And we love to use nature as a big part of that process. Ã¢â‚¬Å“ClassÃ¢â‚¬Â for us is often a day at the local park or zoo. And we have total flexibility and freedom to get a fun idea and just go for it. If we are learning about reptiles, we head to the local reptile zoo (we have an awesome one nearby). There are many museums in the greater Seattle area, tons of great libraries, zoos, aquariums, and parks (including Mt St Helens and Mt Rainier national parks). We are always on the go and always learning. Learning is just a way of life. Even when we watch a movie as a family, we use it to learn and grow and discuss topics we find interesting. We also make sure our home is a learning center. Our little farm, our little zoo, our many books, maps, and so forth are always at our fingertips ready for either a structured or impromptu learning session. 

Another advantage we have with our kids vs the public system, is the 1:1 teaching we can do with each kid. We know them each well and know their strengths, weaknesses, learning styles, and what motivates them and turns them off. We know how to challenge, push, and stretch them. We know how to make learning fun for them.
The following is a series of photos that paint a picture of homeschooling from the perspective of my family. Simple. Full of love and a love for life. Happy kids with bright futures.

(pics coming shortly - a sort of photo essay...)


Teaching and learning blend together with big families.
Someone is always reading to someone else, or helping someone with some project. Always interacting, playing, learning:






































































School is where we are. And we love the parks and being outdoors:

































Our favorite zoo:


























Late night reading. They can stay late IF they are reading a good book - and then sleep in late as needed. My oldest son is a night owl and will stay up until midnight reading:





Cooking time is also family time. Everyone loves to help. We learn about measuring, math, science, and have fun:





I love taking trips with the kids. Sometimes I just take one for a special dad and son bonding time. We have fun, and learn the whole time. Here is a winter camping trip to Eastern Washington with just my oldest boy and me:













We learned about eclipses (see pic of parial eclipse), and listened to the coyotes and owls and other night time sounds. We spotted satalites and shooting starts in the open skies above us.




Geography, geology, science, and history around ever corning along the road trip:





Dang, now I can't edit all the typos... Posts get added together, and the 30 minute editing window closes, even if you just posted a new one... Stinks to have all those typos up there in a post about homeschooling 





























These were taken last week:


----------



## Yvonne G (Feb 8, 2010)

I'm pretty critical when I see poor spelling and grammar, but I can honestly say, your subject and pictures were so interesting, that I didn't notice any bad spelling. So put your mind at ease!

What a beautiful family! I love the twins. And your wife must be a saint to have all those messy hands in her kitchen. That part made my stomach twist!

They might not appreciate it now, but when they get older they are going to be so glad to have been such lucky children.


----------



## chadk (Feb 8, 2010)

Like I said, we LOVE the outdoors and nature 





































[hr]
[quote='emysemys']
I'm pretty critical when I see poor spelling and grammar, but I can honestly say, your subject and pictures were so interesting, that I didn't notice any bad spelling. So put your mind at ease!

What a beautiful family! I love the twins. And your wife must be a saint to have all those messy hands in her kitchen. That part made my stomach twist!

They might not appreciate it now, but when they get older they are going to be so glad to have been such lucky children.
[/quote]

Thanks! My mind is a little more at ease now :)

Yes, we like a clean house, but sometimes messes just need to be made (and quickly cleaned up!).

By the way, I do most of the dinner time cooking (she does more of the baking) - so it is MY kitchen (or so the arguement usually goes...) ;)[hr]
More pics later. Gotta focus on work for a bit now that lunch is over...


----------



## TylerStewart (Feb 8, 2010)

I've always wanted to entertain the idea of either home schooling or private schooling.... I went to public schools and my kid does now, but it irritates me to no end the amount of politics and "compassion for the poor (lazy)" that they are taught there. He's freakin 7 years old. Last November during the presidential election, my son's class had an election (he was 6 at the time). He didn't know who to vote for, and I hadn't said a word about who I was voting for to him. He came home and told me they had an election. I asked him who he voted for. He proudly said "Obama." I asked him why. His reply: "Well, I didn't know either of them, but my teacher said that if we wanted to help poor people, to vote for Obama." I have since straightened him out hopefully enough that he'll dish it back at the teacher, almost to the point that the "O word" is a bad word in my house. The thought that they might start teaching sex ed to kids this age or just a bit older is completely stupid, and with the current mindset of so many in elected office, might be difficult to avoid soon. 

Personally, if it was me, I would rather pay to have my kids go to a school that I chose based on the teachers, and the ability of them to teach my kids well, not based on what they were zoned for. *I think every family paying for their kids education or doing it themselves should have a massive tax cut or credit because of it*, and people that want to use public schools are welcome to keep doing that. The govt should sell half (or more) of their school buildings to private companies that want to compete in education. Better schools will be able to charge more, and the parents can decide which school they want, or go to public schools at no cost. 

I myself am not such a big fan of home school simply because I don't think my wife or I have time to do it properly. We would if we could, but for us it's probably better to go a private route. 

Photo attached of our 10 month old boy last night, wrangling a big sulcata.


----------



## chadk (Feb 8, 2010)

That's a great pic Tyler. And that sullie is flawless!

I like your thinking... My kids had the experience with the election. Teachers making kids feel stupid, bad, or not part of the group (aka peer pressure) if they didn't vote for Obamma. On the plus side, it helped us have some great conversations about politics and teachers and peer pressure.

And I totally agree about more choice when it comes to school. Private, public, charter, home. Make them compete. Let parents choose. That is part of what makes America great. Freedom to provide the best education for our children that we see fit as parents. Freedom to homeschool. Freedom to go private. Freedom to go to public school. But they twist things to be "every child has a 'right' to edeucation"... and what the mean is "we (gov't) have the right to force you to attend our schools no matter how badly they are failing and no matter what you think is best for your own kids". Choice is always best. Won't happen though. Once big gov't is invloved, it does not like to loose $$, power, or influence.


----------



## Stephanie Logan (Feb 8, 2010)

I know several families who home-school for a variety of reasons, and I have no problem with it if it's done well. I've never heard of or talked to any teachers in the Littleton Public Schools, who express blanket opposition to home schooling, and I meet a LOT of teachers since I am a substitute. 

In fact, your story only confirms and emphasizes my contention that without responsible parents and responsible students, our schools cannot succeed, no matter how much money you throw at them. Your kids are fortunate in that you and your wife are clearly the kind of parents whose investment of time and effort will contribute to their academic success and develop strong characters. 

Parents are their children's first and most influential teachers. Without parental involvement and high expectations, very few students will succeed at school. My frustration is that many people want to pillory teachers and school systems because they cannot execute a miracle: compensating for inadequate, abusive or negligent parents. I would argue that ANY child who comes to school properly fed, properly rested, properly dressed and with enthusiasm for learning will succeed in academics for the entirety of his school years (and his teachers will love and cherish their time with him). Conversely, only a few of the many kids who attend school without preparation, support and accountability on the part of their parents or guardians will succeed, no matter how perfect their teachers are.

I think there are tons of advantages to home schooling, many of which you listed. Because I was able to stay home for most of the years my kids grew up, I was able to do a lot of what you talked about--teaching them about math and science as I cooked, cleaned and gardened, and they all learned the history of the Oregon Trail when we drove up to Bend one year, and geology, Indian culture and history when we drove down to Phoenix another year...

I never wanted to spend all day every day with them to home school them, but I certainly reinforced their school work with shared projects, high expectations, homework supervision and tons of praise when their success resulted in numerous commendations and awards (I could wallpaper my kitchen with "honor student" bumper stickers from middle and high school .)

Fred's job as a pilot, which keeps him away from home about 20-25 days a month, was actually advantageous for the time he was home, because he'd be there all day for the kids to hang out with, run errands with, do chores with, etc, and he volunteered to be the parent chaperone on numerous school field trips as well. 

I have always looked askance at the concept of "quality time", as such a thing simply cannot be scheduled. Quantity is what it's all about, because the "quality" moments just happen, often unexpectedly and in the middle of something completely unrelated [here's a great one that happened to someone else's preschool kid when I was walking my class to the lunchroom last week: I heard the child say, "I used to suck MY thumb when I was six...oh, wait! I'm still four."  Priceless!]

The central point I would like to make after all this rambling and nostalgia is "There's no substitute for spending TIME with your kids!"

So enjoy! You don't need to defend your choices, when you know in your heart that you are doing the right thing. No paradigm is perfect, and we all make mistakes within our chosen framework, but there are more ways to win the race than just a straight line to the finish!

Oh, I also meant to say, "Great photos!"

Great camera, great eye, great timing!


----------



## chadk (Feb 8, 2010)

My middle son, now 8, is a math wiz of sorts. Not a rocket scientist by any means, but when it comes to money and problem solving, he's the sharpest of the bunch. He's the most out-going as well (my oldest is super shy). Ethan, the non-shy one, loves to go up to the counter with money in hand and buy things. Holding them accountable for the correct change. I couldn't pay my oldest to go buy himself an ice-cream cone though! Such different personalities. When Ethan was 6, he asked a barista at a coffee stand for he phone number! When my wife asked him why, he said "becuase she's HOT! And maybe someday I can marry her". My wife mentioned she was probably 20yrs old, this little 6yr old thought for a second, and said "maybe she'll wait for me". LOL. Again, my oldest would have been hiding the back seat, afraid the girl might say something to him. Never a dull moment though...


Anyway, more pics...

This day they took school on the road and stopped in at a raspberry farm. They picked their berries, then each went to have their fruit weighed to see what they'd have to pay. Of course, Ehan was the first in line and knew how much money his berries would cost before the lady even finished.























Stephanie Logan said:


> I know several families who home-school for a variety of reasons, and I have no problem with it if it's done well. I've never heard of or talked to any teachers in the Littleton Public Schools, who express blanket opposition to home schooling, and I meet a LOT of teachers since I am a substitute.
> 
> In fact, your story only confirms and emphasizes my contention that without responsible parents and responsible students, our schools cannot succeed, no matter how much money you throw at them. Your kids are fortunate in that you and your wife are clearly the kind of parents whose investment of time and effort will contribute to their academic success and develop strong characters.
> 
> ...





Thanks Stephanie. I agree on all points 

And just to clarify, I'm not defending our choice to homeschool, just trying to help educate others who may not really understand what it is all about and just have those stereotypes in their heads. The more who understand and appreciate it for what it is, will be there to help support our freedom to do it, when out state or country tries to stomp our freedoms even more


----------



## DoctorCosmonaut (Feb 8, 2010)

Yeah, I think that more than talking about schooling, this topic talks about parental involvement and quality time with ones children. I feel really bad for people who don't have the support your children clearly do. 

Just curious, what type of business/career are you involved in? I hope that isn't too prying of a question? Just seems like you are very fortunate to be able to accommodate so many children and lead the lifestyle you do.


----------



## chadk (Feb 8, 2010)

What do homeschoolers do on snow days? Is school cancelled? 







Heck no!! But we do take a time out to have an epic snow ball fight!!






































DoctorCosmonaut said:


> Yeah, I think that more than talking about schooling, this topic talks about parental involvement and quality time with ones children. I feel really bad for people who don't have the support your children clearly do.
> 
> Just curious, what type of business/career are you involved in? I hope that isn't too prying of a question? Just seems like you are very fortunate to be able to accommodate so many children and lead the lifestyle you do.



No problem. I work in the software industry. I've had a steady job here for 14yrs. Very blessed for sure. It helps to have lots of vacation time, flexible schedules, and ability to work from home when needed. My wife couldn't do what she does without the support I'm able to give her.

We made a LOT of mistakes when we were young. Financial mistakes that cost us now and beyond. But we did do a few things right. We talked about our plans when we were young. Before we were married. While dating in college. We had visions and plans. Some panned out - mostly in ways we never expected. Others changed as we grew and matured. 

My wife was determined to get her Masters (or more) in Psychology with empahsis and children and marriage counceling. She wanted to be able to work with kids. Kids from abusive backgrounds; kids impacted by drugs and alcohol. Based on her own childhood, she was very passionate about this. I fully supported her. We thought that at some point, she might be able to open a home office and then we could raise our family with her home, but working. Probably need a nanny though. We agreed we would not start a family until we were able to support one income and\or have one person working from home full time. No latch-key kids for us. Our long term vision was to be able to help kids in some way that invovled her counceling from that home office, having a small farm where kids could come and interact with animals as a form of therapy, and be able to raise our own kids in ways we only dreamed of growing up.

Well, as school moved along, and we grew and matured, she started to see things differently. She realized that she'd be in her mid to late 30's before her dream of being a mom would be able to be realized with that plan. And as we started seeing friends getting married and having kids (she melted whenever she saw or held, or... smelled... a new born baby), she just had to take another look at our plans. 

We decided that she'd take a break from school and work for a bit. I had finished school ahead of her and started working at a pretty good software related job. She was working for the city of Seattle as a social worker with a promising career in that area if she wanted. 

But after a year or so of that, we realized that we could afford our first house AND afford for her to 'retire' to have a baby. And that is what we did.

Now in hindsight, our plans and dreams are pretty close to what we envisioned. Just not exactly via the path we had imagined. We are involved in foster care, and really making an impact on so many lives of young kids. And our animals play a part in that, as is Becc's background in social work and psychology. And we have our 3 biological boys and are able to adopt the 4 girls. We feel so blessed. Like I said, we stumbled around quite a bit. Financially, we fell into many stupid traps - the dot com bubble bursting hurt. The housing bubble bursting hurt. And so on. But we are determined and take each day at a time, with prayer and focus.

So that is much more than you asked  But this IS my thread, so I can ramble if I want... 

OK that 30 min window is killing me. More typos I can't fix... I gotta be quicker about checking that....


----------



## terryo (Feb 8, 2010)

"I've always wanted to entertain the idea of either home schooling or private schooling.... I went to public schools and my kid does now, but it irritates me to no end the amount of politics and "compassion for the poor (lazy)" that they are taught there. He's freakin 7 years old. Last November during the presidential election, my son's class had an election (he was 6 at the time). He didn't know who to vote for, and I hadn't said a word about who I was voting for to him. He came home and told me they had an election. I asked him who he voted for. He proudly said "Obama." I asked him why. His reply: "Well, I didn't know either of them, but my teacher said that if we wanted to help poor people, to vote for Obama." I have since straightened him out hopefully enough that he'll dish it back at the teacher, almost to the point that the "O word" is a bad word in my house. The thought that they might start teaching sex ed to kids this age or just a bit older is completely stupid, and with the current mindset of so many in elected office, might be difficult to avoid soon. "

I am with you on this one totally Tyler. And...if you think its bad now wait until your kids go to college. Almost every professor is so politicality opinionated on every issue. My son said you have to be very careful to go down the middle path if you want good grades. Sad.

As far as you home schooling Chad, I myself have very strong views about this. You are so lucky to have the home facilities, and enough education and time to handle this. I would have given anything to be able to do it for all my kids too. I have many friends who home schooled and some relatives. I think all their kids turned out so well because of it. I was very lucky with my children. We were always together, and did so many things together and being outdoors played a very big part of teaching my kids too. I took advantage of everything this Island had to offer. 
Your children are so lucky, and they will reiterate their memories many times with such appreciation. IMO...There is no public or private school that could compre with the education you are giving your children by home schooling them.


----------



## ChiKat (Feb 8, 2010)

Chad your family looks awesome  Those pictures are wonderful and your family seems very close 
I think homeschooling is great the way you're doing it. Your children are very lucky.
Then there's my aunt and uncle who tried to homeschool their five children. They went about it the WRONG way and it was very detrimental to the kids' learning. They basically just memorized Bible verses, did a little math and science here and there...their oldest daughter didn't like math so didn't do it often 
They homeschooled because they couldn't afford private schooling and didn't like public schools.
They ended up sending all their children (ages 7-17) to public schools over the past few years. They just sent the two youngest kids to elementary school this past year, and both kids tested below the grade they should have been in.
Their second grader only uses capital letters in his writing...not good!

I babysat for a family who took their four children out of the public school system and started homeschooling. I spoke with the mom about all her frustrations and I could definitely understand where she was coming from. She was now able to take her kids to museums and other educational places and they would learn through hands-on experience. They had so many opportunities to learn, and did things that you can't do with a classroom full of students- just like your pictures show!

And here I am with a degree in elementary education, about to work in one of those public school systems 

Oh and I can't get over how adorable all your kids are!


----------



## DoctorCosmonaut (Feb 8, 2010)

Sounds like my girlfriend and I, college sweethearts planning things out ^_^


----------



## chadk (Feb 8, 2010)

Planning is good. Good for you guys


----------



## terracolson (Feb 8, 2010)

I wish there was a school like this by my house!


----------



## Maggie Cummings (Feb 8, 2010)

Thanks Chad for answering I was wondering about your work also. Is that you the handsome man with the goatee? I am also curious about your wife...I want to see a picture of her and if that is her in one of these pictures, that's not enough for me...I want to see better pictures of both of you...bigger so my old eyes can see them. How long have you been married? This being your thread I can also ask personal questions...


----------



## chadk (Feb 8, 2010)

LOL Maggie. I love your directness. Yes, that is me. And she is in there as well. I'll see if I can find a few better pics.... I try to stay out of pics though...


----------



## Maggie Cummings (Feb 8, 2010)

I totally understand the staying out of pictures thing. But I need bigger pictures to tell if you are both as good looking as it looks. You wife looks beautiful...and I so love a man in a goatee, or any face hair I think...


----------



## chadk (Feb 8, 2010)

Here is my beautiful wife of almost 14yrs (this summer):


----------



## Stephanie Logan (Feb 8, 2010)

I still think it's uncanny how your adopted daughter resembles the woman who loves her best...


----------



## dmmj (Feb 8, 2010)

honestly when a teacxher has an "election" for president for six year olds, that teacher has an agenda and should be fire IMHO. Home schooled kids when taught a well rounded education IMHO come out smarter and better people in the future. I see my cousins and the school they are in and it makes me sad and angry at the same time, because they are notbbeing taught anything except how to use condoms and how to have babies.


----------



## Shelly (Feb 9, 2010)

dmmj said:


> honestly when a teacxher has an "election" for president for six year olds, that teacher has an agenda and should be fire IMHO. Home schooled kids when taught a well rounded education IMHO come out smarter and better people in the future. I see my cousins and the school they are in and it makes me sad and angry at the same time, because they are notbbeing taught anything except how to use condoms and how to have babies.



You should heed your own signature.


----------



## chadk (Feb 9, 2010)

Shelly said:


> dmmj said:
> 
> 
> > honestly when a teacxher has an "election" for president for six year olds, that teacher has an agenda and should be fire IMHO. Home schooled kids when taught a well rounded education IMHO come out smarter and better people in the future. I see my cousins and the school they are in and it makes me sad and angry at the same time, because they are notbbeing taught anything except how to use condoms and how to have babies.
> ...



Shelly, please take your issues offline in a PM with him. Please don't turn my post into name calling.


----------



## Maggie Cummings (Feb 9, 2010)

Thank you Chad...she is beautiful...guess no pic of you then...alright I can accept that....
Chad I think the 30 minute window starts after you hit send and then want to come back and correct any typos, 

after you finish typing your post go around and correct your spelling and any typos then hit post...THEN is when your 30 minute window for correction starts. At least I think that's what happens it's different for moderators.


----------



## -ryan- (Feb 9, 2010)

The problem with homeschooling is regulation. Clearly you are doing a great job homeschooling your kids, and that is commendable, but the vast majority of home schooling parents don't have any idea what they are doing. This is a big problem, and I am sick of hearing "We deserve the right to teach our children the way we see fit." WRONG... no... DEAD WRONG. It's not about the parents, it's about the kids, and the kids deserve the right of a comprehensive education taught by people who are experts in their field. Do I feel that this is happening in all public schools? No! Should it be? YES!

I feel that we live in a world where, for the majority of people, homeschooling is no longer relevant. Obviously there are exceptions, and it appears as though your family is an exception, but there are still problems. For example, what about high school? Will you be able to offer your children an education in Calculus? What about Physics? Advanced Studio Art? Advanced Music Theory? These are just example of classes that really can be taught by no less than an expert in each given field. EDIT: Rereading your post I see you somewhat addressed these concerns, but again it is a national thing and many areas don't offer the opportunities that you have available.

Another problem is that we are now in at a point in time when many middle school children are more intelligent than the parents. Where do you think these kids will end up if their parents are the ones educating them?

Not trying to debate anything, but just some food for thought. Again, from your pictures it appears as though you are doing a wonderful job.


----------



## chadk (Feb 9, 2010)

-ryan- said:


> The problem with homeschooling is regulation. Clearly you are doing a great job homeschooling your kids, and that is commendable, but the vast majority of home schooling parents don't have any idea what they are doing. This is a big problem, and I am sick of hearing "We deserve the right to teach our children the way we see fit." WRONG... no... DEAD WRONG. It's not about the parents, it's about the kids, and the kids deserve the right of a comprehensive education taught by people who are experts in their field. Do I feel that this is happening in all public schools? No! Should it be? YES!
> 
> I feel that we live in a world where, for the majority of people, homeschooling is no longer relevant. Obviously there are exceptions, and it appears as though your family is an exception, but there are still problems. For example, what about high school? Will you be able to offer your children an education in Calculus? What about Physics? Advanced Studio Art? Advanced Music Theory? These are just example of classes that really can be taught by no less than an expert in each given field. EDIT: Rereading your post I see you somewhat addressed these concerns, but again it is a national thing and many areas don't offer the opportunities that you have available.
> 
> ...



I think you'd be surpised at how many good homeschooling families are out there. The horror stories are the rare exception. And yes, there are some who start out and find it too hard an fail. But in this day and age, the resources are overwhelming. 

What if a child is raised on the family farm to be a farmer. Or to be a wood worker or carpenter? Mechanic or running the family business? Is that a parents right? If parents are able to edecuate their kids on par with public schools or better, why shouldn't it be their right to do so? 

Look as the data around homeschooling families. Most are middle class or higher with one parent able to stay at home (usually the mother). One or more parent had a college education in most of those families. The kids test higher and are more involved in their communities.

Parents should have the ultimate decision in the children's lives. And that inlcudes choices when it comes to how they should be educated. As long as they are not being abused, the gov't should back off and focus on the core things that they are supposed to...(aka refer to the constituion).

A few stats - since 1999 (internet took off), homeschooling has increased over 75% to roughly 2 million in the US alone.

Where I work (large NW software company), there are hundreds of homeschool families alone. And it is growing more and more each year as public schools continue to struggle and private schools continue to get more expensive.





Maggie - just for you. Found one from my birthday back in October. I'm doing my best to act like I like the new hat someone got me...


----------



## DoctorCosmonaut (Feb 9, 2010)

I don't think the average parent has the time (either they are both working or are a single parent) or the resources ($$$) to home-school, no matter how great or wrong it can go, it just couldn't work on a large scale.


----------



## terryo (Feb 9, 2010)

"Parents should have the ultimate decision in the children's lives. And that inlcudes choices when it comes to how they should be educated. As long as they are not being abused, the gov't should back off and focus on the core things that they are supposed to...(aka refer to the constituion)."

IMO...absolutely true.

"Another problem is that we are now in at a point in time when many middle school children are more intelligent than the parents. Where do you think these kids will end up if their parents are the ones educating them?"

I was never able to go on to a higher education, and this is the only reason I wouldn't home school my children, but I sat with them every night, while they did their homework, and what I didn't understand, they taught me. They enjoyed that so much! I think most people realize their capabilities.
Most of the people I know who home school, are financially secure enough that only one parent has to work, and both have gone to college and grad school.


----------



## DoctorCosmonaut (Feb 9, 2010)

"Most of the people I know who home school, are financially secure enough that only one parent has to work, and both have gone to college and grad school."

It's a privilege in many senses. Money aside, most parents don't have the rounded knowledge or skills to teach math, geography, or whatever it may be. That is why I'm against taking funding away from education for those who can't afford it (tax breaks or money slips or whatever was proposed). Schools scrape by as it is financially, and a country would go down the drain if everyone wasn't as educated as that society can afford.

But, good for you Chad, its great that you can provide all that


----------



## chadk (Feb 10, 2010)

DoctorCosmonaut said:


> I don't think the average parent has the time (either they are both working or are a single parent) or the resources ($$$) to home-school, no matter how great or wrong it can go, it just couldn't work on a large scale.



Nobody is suggesting that this replace all other forms of education. Just allowed to exist as a valid option for those willing and able to do it.

As for the $$$ aspect, i know plenty of lower-middle class, low income, single income, and even some single parent homeschoolers. It is more a matter of determination than anything else.



DoctorCosmonaut said:


> It's a privilege in many senses. Money aside, most parents don't have the rounded knowledge or skills to teach math, geography, or whatever it may be. That is why I'm against taking funding away from education for those who can't afford it (tax breaks or money slips or whatever was proposed). Schools scrape by as it is financially, and a country would go down the drain if everyone wasn't as educated as that society can afford.
> 
> But, good for you Chad, its great that you can provide all that





I know many homeschool families that love learning together. They take field trips together to study American history for example, and learn about things side by side with their kids. Parents are able to focus and have 'self learning' skills that can be taught over time to their children. Learning and teaching side by side is a very valid approach. And with the resources around today, there is no topic you can't learn if you REALLY want.

My first year at the university, my Calculus prof was from india. A tiny little old man who spoke such broken english it was nearly impossible for me to follow along a normal conversation, let alone a complidated mathmatical lesson... And no 1:1 time to slow down and cover areas and concpets I was struggling with. The man was clearly a math genious ,but was a horrible teacher. Knowlege of a subject does not make a good teacher. Willingness to learn, deep interest in your student, creativity, resourcefullness, deterimination, flexibility, a love for learning and for teaching others, these are characteristics that make anyone able to teach just about any subject.



There is a recent case going on between the US and Germany. Over the years, Germany has been cracking down on homeschooling. It reached the point where most families had to give it up. In fact, anyone caught homeschooling faced fines, jail, and losing their children.

They reached out the US and have now been granted asylum because here in the US, we (most of us) still value pareantal rights and basic human rights.

http://homeschooling.suite101.com/article.cfm/german-homeschooling-family-granted-asylum


The political asylum case of the Romeike family was detailed in the article German Homeschooling Family Seeks Asylum in U.S.

On January 26, 2010 immigration Judge Lawrence O. Burman granted the political asylum application of the Romeike family, German homeschoolers fleeing persecution in their country. The Homeschool Legal Defense Association (HSLDA) reports the judge said that "We can't expect every country to follow our Constitution... However, the rights being violated here are basic human rights that no country has a right to violate.Ã¢â‚¬Â



Read more at Suite101: German Homeschooling Family Granted Asylum: Romeike Family Allowed to Stay in the United States http://homeschooling.suite101.com/a...schooling-family-granted-asylum#ixzz0f9erNPRm


Ruling has International Implications
In a ruling in which he called the German Government's persecution of the Romeike's "odd" and "just plain silly", HSLDA reports that judge Burman added, Ã¢â‚¬Å“Homeschoolers are a particular social group that the German government is trying to suppress. This family has a well-founded fear of persecutionÃ¢â‚¬Â¦therefore, they are eligible for asylumÃ¢â‚¬Â¦and the court will grant asylum.Ã¢â‚¬Â

There are hundreds of homeschooling families still living in Germany. If Germany continues its persecution of homeschooling, these families may also flee to the United States and petition for political asylum as the Romeike's did.

HSLDA Says Ruling Embarrassing for Germany
Mike Donnelly, director of international relations for HSLDA said in a statement on the HSLDA website, Ã¢â‚¬Å“It is embarrassing for Germany, since a Western nation should uphold basic human rights, which include allowing parents to raise and educate their own children. This judge understood the case perfectly, and he called Germany out. We hope this decision will cause Germany to stop persecuting homeschoolers." He notes that Ã¢â‚¬Å“This decision finally recognizes that German homeschoolers are a specific social group that is being persecuted by a Western democracy.Ã¢â‚¬Â


----------



## TylerStewart (Feb 10, 2010)

DoctorCosmonaut said:


> Schools scrape by as it is financially, and a country would go down the drain if everyone wasn't as educated as that society can afford.



They scrape by because they're government run. The money that the schools get per student is much higher than it would take to send the kid to a private school. If schools were run by individuals, private sector, there would be little or no waste. The govt doesn't do anything without a lot of waste. 

I don't suggest that everyone should be home-schooling, just that they shouldn't be taxed on supporting the public schools if they weren't sending kids there. I don't think it's fair that Chad, for example, is paying taxes to send other people's kids to school when he is also paying to educate his own by himself.

_EDIT: Just found a link in a simple Google search. There's lots of links out there. We're pushing nearly $10K per year per student. That would pay for a nice private education, wouldn't you say?

http://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=66_


----------



## alfiethetortoise (Feb 10, 2010)

I find this thread very interesting. I have to agree with Jordan though, that for many people home schooling is just not an option....

Chad- i am sure your children (all seven of them, yikes!) are recieving a top rate home school education. The pictures pretty much prove that. But i have no 'choice' but to send my daughter to school, when the time comes. As a single parent, i cannot afford not to be working, and staying at home with her every day instead. Also, your 7 children have eachother everyday at home school. My one very sociable child, would be stuck with just me. I have doubts on what this would do to her socail skills, especially as she is already very sociable and likes to play/engage with other children. As we live in a village, i already worry sometimes that Ava will grow up living a very sheltered lifestyle (no real crime, no real ethnic groups, everyone is pretty much white, christian, british) and if i keep her at home i feel this would only intensify. 

But i salute your commitment to your childrens education. I pulled out some Jolly Phonics today, and thought, 'she isnt even two, calm down!'. I think the real reason your children will suceed is due to the parental involvement and encouragement they will recieve


----------



## chadk (Feb 10, 2010)

alfiethetortoise said:


> I find this thread very interesting. I have to agree with Jordan though, that for many people home schooling is just not an option....
> 
> Chad- i am sure your children (all seven of them, yikes!) are recieving a top rate home school education. The pictures pretty much prove that. But i have no 'choice' but to send my daughter to school, when the time comes. As a single parent, i cannot afford not to be working, and staying at home with her every day instead. Also, your 7 children have eachother everyday at home school. My one very sociable child, would be stuck with just me. I have doubts on what this would do to her socail skills, especially as she is already very sociable and likes to play/engage with other children. As we live in a village, i already worry sometimes that Ava will grow up living a very sheltered lifestyle (no real crime, no real ethnic groups, everyone is pretty much white, christian, british) and if i keep her at home i feel this would only intensify.
> 
> But i salute your commitment to your childrens education. I pulled out some Jolly Phonics today, and thought, 'she isnt even two, calm down!'. I think the real reason your children will suceed is due to the parental involvement and encouragement they will recieve



I agree with everything you just said. Clearly not everyone is going to want to or be able to home school. I'm not advocating that at all. Simply painting a picture of a modern homeschool family and showing that we aren't some scary weird backcwards sheltered freaks... It is a valid choice we should be free to make in America. That is my only point. 

For parents of one child, socialization is as simple as setting up play dates, spending time at the park, playing with kids in the neighborhood, playing on a local sports club, etc etc. 

I'm always amazed at how UNsocial kids are at the local jr high and high school where my 2 daughters have been attending. Most have their faces buried in their phones texting and hardly ever look an adult in the eye, let alone communicate in a meaningful way with one (even with their own peers... especially if they are not a member of their little clique). Yes, there are many who are very good socially because their parents work with them and they have an outgoing personality. But to think that sending kids off to a public school is some kind of cure or solution to socialization, you'd be mistaken.

This story of 'socialized' public school kids came out today. Sadly, these stories are more and more common in the Seattle area and probably around the country. This one is only unique in that it was all caught on video:
Vidoe:
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/fl...rbc3.html?bcpid=30884189001&bctid=65855483001
Story:
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2011027703_webbeating09m.html


----------



## DoctorCosmonaut (Feb 10, 2010)

Some neighborhoods and parks aren't that great for children. Unfortunately some people can't afford to get out of that neighborhood or the parents themselves aren't as good of an influence as some teachers are. Sometimes a public school is the best thing and safest place a child has... Sad world 

* And Tyler, the issue with private schools is accountability and qualification. For example, in Oregon there is no law regulating what qualifications private school teachers must have, nor that they must have a background check. So, the local Christian private school near my childhood home would hire people with some higher education (they don't even have to do that if they don't want to), but not necessarily in the field or with any background in teaching. While a public school teacher, in Oregon, must pass a general knowledge test (math, reading, writing -- to make sure they aren't completely incompetent), they must then specialize in what they are going to teach (taking a plethora of classes in that subject), they must major in the field they are going to teach, then they must take a standardized test on the subject to certify they have a wide and adequate knowledge to teach about the topic, they must be finger printed and have an FBI and State Police background check done, they then have to have several hundred hours of Student teaching in, they must also have a 2nd degree (aside from their content area degree) in education, and then they have 8 years to get a masters or they loose their license! All of these are rarely required by private schools, and most do not perform finger printing or other safety measures. Now private schools have the right to regulate as much or as little as they want, just saying, that each year the requirements for becoming a public school teacher increase a ton... Since I began my program they have added two new tests and upped the hours needed in the classroom (I will say that older teachers, those you may have been scarred by, didn't have such rigorous standards... but tomorrow's teachers will!)


----------



## Maggie Cummings (Feb 10, 2010)

The kid next door is 7 or 8 and a pretty bright kid. But he's active and has a short attention span so they decided he had adhd or addpt or addhpptt or some of that stuff I know nothing about. I personally think there's simply a lack of self discipline in the kid. He was allowed to run amok and that hasn't changed. No discipline to make the kid sit still or pay attention. They need to be taught shelf discipline from the time they are small. Made to sit still in a restaurant (and hope he's not sitting close to me) for instance. In my day he'd be sent to the principles office and stood in a corner or something like that.
So now he is home schooled, and what that means is the kid is outside playing all day. Running around like a crazy person. I admit I know nothing about home schooling, but from what I've seen since I got on line and joined a bunch of list serves and forums is there just isn't enough education happening in the basics, adults who can't spell and evidently can't use spel check. People who don't know simple social skills and can't communicate...because they weren't taught that stuff in school. I could go on but I won't...
I went to a private Catholic school until I finally got kicked out in the ninths grade..what a relief!!!


----------



## TylerStewart (Feb 10, 2010)

DoctorCosmonaut said:


> * And Tyler, the issue with private schools is accountability and qualification. For example, in Oregon there is no law regulating what qualifications private school teachers must have, nor that they must have a background check. So, the local Christian private school near my childhood home would hire people with some higher education (they don't even have to do that if they don't want to), but not necessarily in the field or with any background in teaching. While a public school teacher, in Oregon, must pass a general knowledge test (math, reading, writing -- to make sure they aren't completely incompetent), they must then specialize in what they are going to teach (taking a plethora of classes in that subject), they must major in the field they are going to teach, then they must take a standardized test on the subject to certify they have a wide and adequate knowledge to teach about the topic, they must be finger printed and have an FBI and State Police background check done, they then have to have several hundred hours of Student teaching in, they must also have a 2nd degree (aside from their content area degree) in education, and then they have 8 years to get a masters or they loose their license! All of these are rarely required by private schools, and most do not perform finger printing or other safety measures.



The qualification is the easiest part to sort out, though. There's certainly plenty of people that are at least as qualified as the current batch of teachers. The difference is, they'd be working for private individuals instead of the govt, so they would actually have to perform or they would lose their jobs. Good schools would be able to charge higher rates, and bad schools or schools that broke rules would go out of business or be shut down. There certainly should be a bar that any school should be at in order to stay operational, and as long as any school, public or private can maintain that standard or higher, it's an approved school. 

I realize many of us aren't in the position to pay for private school... Which is why I think the people that want to shouldn't be taxed on it, which would help cover most or all of the costs of sending their kids to those schools. Like I said, my kid is in public school. But if I was getting a tax break for him not to be, I'd send him to a private one.


----------



## chadk (Feb 10, 2010)

maggie3fan said:


> The kid next door is 7 or 8 and a pretty bright kid. But he's active and has a short attention span so they decided he had adhd or addpt or addhpptt or some of that stuff I know nothing about. I personally think there's simply a lack of self discipline in the kid. He was allowed to run amok and that hasn't changed. No discipline to make the kid sit still or pay attention. They need to be taught shelf discipline from the time they are small. Made to sit still in a restaurant (and hope he's not sitting close to me) for instance. In my day he'd be sent to the principles office and stood in a corner or something like that.
> So now he is home schooled, and what that means is the kid is outside playing all day. Running around like a crazy person. I admit I know nothing about home schooling, but from what I've seen since I got on line and joined a bunch of list serves and forums is there just isn't enough education happening in the basics, adults who can't spell and evidently can't use spel check. People who don't know simple social skills and can't communicate...because they weren't taught that stuff in school. I could go on but I won't...
> I went to a private Catholic school until I finally got kicked out in the ninths grade..what a relief!!!



Good point maggie. Some kids are such hard cases for the schools to handle, they kick the kids out. Either the parent has to pay for a private tutor, private school, or homeschool. Or in some cases, drug their kids enough so they are zombies at school and not causing so many issues... And since most can't afford it, they 'homeschool'. And of course, their little monster they created probably won't get any better since they allowed him to get out of control in the first place... Big difference between choosing to homeschool because you KNOW you can do better than the public school, and being FORCED to homeschool becuase nobody else can handle little johnny...



DoctorCosmonaut said:


> Some neighborhoods and parks aren't that great for children. Unfortunately some people can't afford to get out of that neighborhood or the parents themselves aren't as good of an influence as some teachers are. Sometimes a public school is the best thing and safest place a child has... Sad world



You seem to think I am saying that homeschooling is the best answer for everyone in every situtation. The sad thing is, sometimes there really isn't a 'best' answer. I know there are some awesome caring and effective teachers out there. We are best friends with some of them. Again, all i'm saying is that for some, homeschooling is a valid option that should not be looked down on or treated as anything other than one option parents have when it comes to educating their kids.


----------



## DoctorCosmonaut (Feb 10, 2010)

Oh I know you aren't saying homeschooling is the best for everyone and the only option. ^_^ There's good and bad in it all, and the options work for some and don't for others, and there are good private/public teachers and good parents and there are bad ones too. C'est la vie!


----------



## ChiKat (Feb 10, 2010)

alfiethetortoise said:


> I pulled out some Jolly Phonics today, and thought, 'she isnt even two, calm down!'.



Jolly Phonics!!! That's what we use with the students in my kindergarten class  You are the only other person I've heard reference that before! Is it more common over there in the UK since it was developed by a teacher in England?

Oops sorry...probably should have taken this to a PM!

I think when the time comes for me to have children I will probably send them to school, but they will still have ample opportunities to learn at home. I don't plan on having children for several years though, so that could change!
Chad, out of curiousity how old are your children?


----------



## Stephanie Logan (Feb 10, 2010)

There are multiple strategies for improving the behavior of ADD or ADHD kids...unfortunately there is no ONE solution there, either. I must just be living in a public school bubble here because the teachers I know work with parents to help the kid practice self-control...stools with one leg so the kids have to move more to balance, chairs with wide rubber bands around the legs so they can prop their feet, push or pull with their legs, again to provide a physical outlet...giving those kids the jobs of sharpening pencils, taking messages to the office, being a bus buddy to a kindergartener. My point here is that teachers work their butts off to provide a personalized education to all of their 25ish students, taking each kid's strengths and challenges into account. It's kind of like being a parent to 25 kids at once (and especially kindergarteners, as Katie and I know!)

HOWEVER, it is also true that chronically disruptive kids demand so much time and attention that the rest of the class suffers multiple interruptions of their instructional time and that's just the bottom line. There are also parents who insist that little Johnny is just gifted, and since he's bored he's acting out...to that I say what I always said to my own kids: You have no excuse for disrupting other kids' learning experiences; if you're bored, and the rest of the class is not ready to move on yet, pull out a book and read!!

So again, you can see where home schooling may be helpful to some kids, and some kids may only need it for a year or two, some may need it till high school, etc. I just don't want the schools to be the scapegoat for society's ills--PARENTS must do their job first, and kids must be held accountable by parents and teachers. No child should be promoted for social reasons, but schools do that because by law, parents must agree to have their child retained before schools can enact the policy, and VERY few parents will "allow" their kid to flunk (which is funny because the kid already flunked the knowledge, and will not prosper in the next grade if he is that far behind...)!


----------



## terryo (Feb 10, 2010)

There are multiple strategies for improving the behavior of ADD or ADHD kids...unfortunately there is no ONE solution there, either. I must just be living in a public school bubble here because the teachers I know work with parents to help the kid practice self-control...stools with one leg so the kids have to move more to balance, chairs with wide rubber bands around the legs so they can prop their feet, push or pull with their legs, again to provide a physical outlet...giving those kids the jobs of sharpening pencils, taking messages to the office, being a bus buddy to a kindergartener. My point here is that teachers work their butts off to provide a personalized education to all of their 25ish students, taking each kid's strengths and challenges into account. It's kind of like being a parent to 25 kids at once (and especially kindergarteners, as Katie and I know!)

Wow...that is amazing. What a wonderful school that must be, and what wonderful teachers. I wish you were here in NY where my kids went to school. I happen to have been very lucky that my kids got good grades and didn't give any trouble. I do have one son that was partially deaf. He had a 70% hearing loss. He was put in a resource room with other kids who had different disabilities. They put him in the back of the class because I was told he was good and he gave no trouble, and they had to put the hard to handle kids in the front of the room so they could be watched, even though my son couldn't read lips or hear from back there. I had to fight, not only his school, but the board of ed. for every little thing for him in grade school. Most everything he learned wasn't from that resource room. It was from his family sitting with him every day, teaching him to read, do math etc.. I can tell that you are one of those teachers who are dedicated and caring, but thirty years ago here in NY I couldn't find anyone like that. By the time he got to middle school, I was lucky enough to have moved into a higher tax district, and he went to a much better school with more advantages for kids with disabilities. How unfair is that? I had a cousin in another state that adopted a child with disabilities and home schooled him and he did very well and went on to college.


----------



## DoctorCosmonaut (Feb 10, 2010)

Just a reminder A LOT is changing in how school's are dealing with and analyzing students with ADD/ADHD. I firmly believe that the teachers that the universities are putting out are going to be far superior to what most of you remember from your childhood. There are so many more courses on this stuff, and so much more attention, and the idea of differentiating instruction and building a constructivist classroom oriented around student interests and involvement is what the current collegial curriculum is focused on.

I think it is going to be a lot harder to manage to be a sub-par teacher in the next few years.


----------



## alfiethetortoise (Feb 11, 2010)

ChiKat said:


> alfiethetortoise said:
> 
> 
> > I pulled out some Jolly Phonics today, and thought, 'she isnt even two, calm down!'.
> ...



In the UK everyone follows Jolly Phonics  they even sell it in toys are us, if parents choose to use it at home. The government recently wrote thier own phonics pack (DFEE) "Progression in Phonics" which is basically Jolly Phonics dulled down! Because i am a teacher and i used to teach Infants (ages 5,6,7) i have my own set of Jolly Phincs at home


----------

