# Tortoise blowing bubbles and not eating



## lacrime (May 31, 2016)

Hello, my tortoise hadn't moved from his spot since yesterday and now doesn't eat and blowing bubbles out his mouth. I'm not familiar with his breed, or even gender-very newbie- 

He makes an attempt to open his mouth but all comes out is bubbles and saliva. Sometimes he makes a move as if to wipe his face on front legs. No idea what's happening. Put him in shallow water at the moment. Can anyone help? Thank you.


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## JoesMum (May 31, 2016)

Hello

Your tort probably has a respiratory infection and needs to see a herp vet asap. Please note that not all vets are qualified and experienced with tortoises so be careful who you go to. 

Where do you live? We may be able to help recommend one. 

In terms of recovery, please post pictures of your enclosure and lighting and we can see what tweaks you can make to help. 

There are 4 important temperatures that you need to know: warm side, cool side, directly under the basking lamp and overnight minimum. What are these?


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## lacrime (May 31, 2016)

Hello, thank you so much for your reply. Unfortunately I live outside of US and in a small town where vets only care for cats and dogs. I can include a video I shot of him doing that wiping thing.

I keep him outside in the garden, they usually take care of themselves, I just feed it and keep an eye on the tortoises. 

I hope it worked when I tried to upload the video.


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## lacrime (May 31, 2016)

Unfortunately I couldn't upload the video on here, don't know why. 

Here's the update. He's barely moving now, his eyes are closed. When I make a move or any shift happens and he feels it, he moves, opens his eyes but otherwise not much responsive. Not eating. 

Like I said, there's no proper vet here, is there any med I can get him to help him get over his problem? I've never resented this town any more than I did now.



JoesMum said:


> Hello
> 
> Your tort probably has a respiratory infection and needs to see a herp vet asap. Please note that not all vets are qualified and experienced with tortoises so be careful who you go to.
> 
> ...


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## JoesMum (May 31, 2016)

Yout tort needs to be kept warm to help its recovery. What's the weather like where you are? Which state are you in?

Hopefully one of those more experienced in care of a tort with a respiratory infectionlike @Yvonne G will be around shortly


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## lacrime (May 31, 2016)

I left him back in the garden for now. It's a bit windy now but he's under a tent-ish thing I arranged for him in case of heavy rain. Other than immediate weather conditions, it's usually humid In Turkey which is where we are. Should I move him in the house for the day, or will the garden be okay? Sorry to keep bombarding you with questions but I'm very new and never encountered anything like this so I just don't want my tortoise to suffer because I lack info. 

Thanks again. It's frustrating not to be able to identify the problem and/or have the means to do so. Doctors are inexperienced in any animal other than cats and dogs. 



JoesMum said:


> Yout tort needs to be kept warm to help its recovery. What's the weather like where you are? Which state are you in?
> 
> Hopefully one of those more experienced in care of a tort with a respiratory infectionlike @Yvonne G will be around shortly


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## JoesMum (May 31, 2016)

@Ferretinmyshoes are you able to help with a likely URI in Turkey please?


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## N2TORTS (May 31, 2016)

Your tort has a respiratory infection……if left untreated can and will turn to pneumonia very fast and succumb to death. Warm temps and higher heat will not cure the infection but does help (if anything keep the tort at ease). Some older torts maybe able to fight off the infection with higher heats ect….but younger torts are more susceptible. You need an antibiotic (like Baytril.....although there are others) to rid the infection once it sets in. If you own more than one tort – quarantine the sick one as this R.I. can spread very easy to other torts.


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## lacrime (May 31, 2016)

Thank you for your reply.

For the moment, I left the tortoise in the garden. The weather is warm and humid though sometimes there could be heavy rain. Should I move him indoors?

And if you don't mind, can you help me how I can give Baytril? I don't trust the pharmacists here, they're inexperienced in a lot of cases. I have no idea in what form it comes, in other forums people talk about injections so I appreciate any help I can get. I don't want to cause my tortoise any more discomfort as he has already.



N2TORTS said:


> Your tort has a respiratory infection……if left untreated can and will turn to pneumonia very fast and succumb to death. Warm temps and higher heat will not cure the infection but does help (if anything keep the tort at ease). Some older torts maybe able to fight off the infection with higher heats ect….but younger torts are more susceptible. You need an antibiotic (like Baytril.....although there are others) to rid the infection once it sets in. If you own more than one tort – quarantine the sick one as this R.I. can spread very easy to other torts.


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## N2TORTS (May 31, 2016)

Bring the tort in immediately ......you want the temps nice and steady .....no high no lows.... Most meds especially injectable, the dosage is figured by the weight of the animal. Baytril was just an example , as there are some torts/species who do not tolerate that antibiotic too well. There are others......Do some research on old threads within the forum and I'm sure you may find others advice as well. The injection is usually given in the front legs on the animal ...


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## JoesMum (May 31, 2016)

N2TORTS said:


> Bring the tort in immediately ......you want the temps nice and steady .....no high no lows.... Most meds especially injectable, the dosage is figured by the weight of the animal. Baytril was just an example , as there are some torts/species who do not tolerate that antibiotic too well. There are others......Do some research on old threads within the forum and I'm sure you may find others advice as well. The injection is usually given in the front legs on the animal ...


I am not sure how easily available Baytril is in Turkey and we need to take care not to get into the antibiotic choice/dosage mess that we have had with an Egytptian tort owner on here.


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## lacrime (May 31, 2016)

Alright alright then, I'll move him in now. Since I usually keep tortoises in the garden, I have no indoor arrangements. All I have is a box to keep him. Should I put soil in the box as well? Because in that case all I have is that of indoor plant soil, if that makes any sense? 

In the meantime, I'll try and look through antibiotics to see which one I can get here. 

Thanks again for your reply and help. I really appreciate you guys as I'm clueless and out of resources. 



N2TORTS said:


> Bring the tort in immediately ......you want the temps nice and steady .....no high no lows.... Most meds especially injectable, the dosage is figured by the weight of the animal. Baytril was just an example , as there are some torts/species who do not tolerate that antibiotic too well. There are others......Do some research on old threads within the forum and I'm sure you may find others advice as well. The injection is usually given in the front legs on the animal ...


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## N2TORTS (May 31, 2016)

Depends on "Customs" I guess......but there are many Bird (yes I said Bird...as they use the same antibiotics in fowl) websites in which you can order it online. Unless experienced or not talking with a Professional Vet first , I would not start any kind of Med regime yet, as you can do just as much harm or more. Good luck ...and keep us updated. Get the little guy in with steady temps and keep him well hydrated.


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## N2TORTS (May 31, 2016)

Watch out for "potting soil" as it usually contains vermiculite and perlite , which is non break down ingestible for your tort. Moss will work better as a floor substrate. Use plenty as this will aid in humidity as well as give the little one something to snuggle down under to help regulate his own body temps and keep steady.


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## Linhdan Nguyen (May 31, 2016)

Could you also let us know the temperature in your house and outside in the garden?


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## Tom (May 31, 2016)

He needs warm temperatures day and night. He needs an indoor basking area of around 37 C. And the rest of the enclosure needs to stay around 29-30 C all day and all night to help him fight the infection.


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## lacrime (May 31, 2016)

I don't know if I can find moss around here. I'm thinking through all my options and see what's best. I've asked our pharmacist of they can find me Baytril but they haven't gotten back to me yet.

In the meantime I'm keeping an eye on Tiny. Not moving, head's out, every once in a while he does that wiping face thing but that's all. Keeping very still at the moment, unless he senses anything nearby. i'll soak him in warm water as well. 

I read that Baytril, or some antibiotics can be given through mouth instead of an injection. I fear of doing things wrong, and I'm completely inexperienced in giving injections 

Thank you again, I really appreciate people replying and trying to help me.



N2TORTS said:


> Watch out for "potting soil" as it usually contains vermiculite and perlite , which is non break down ingestible for your tort. Moss will work better as a floor substrate. Use plenty as this will aid in humidity as well as give the little one something to snuggle down under to help regulate his own body temps and keep steady.


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## lacrime (May 31, 2016)

The temperature in and out varies between 25-29 C but the humidity is probably higher than usual in those temperatures. 



Linhdan Nguyen said:


> Could you also let us know the temperature in your house and outside in the garden?





Tom said:


> He needs warm temperatures day and night. He needs an indoor basking area of around 37 C. And the rest of the enclosure needs to stay around 29-30 C all day and all night to help him fight the infection.


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## N2TORTS (May 31, 2016)

lacrime said:


> I don't know if I can find moss around here. I'm thinking through all my options and see what's best. I've asked our pharmacist of they can find me Baytril but they haven't gotten back to me yet.
> 
> In the meantime I'm keeping an eye on Tiny. Not moving, head's out, every once in a while he does that wiping face thing but that's all. Keeping very still at the moment, unless he senses anything nearby. i'll soak him in warm water as well.
> 
> ...


Yes ...you can give it orally ....But.....torts can smell and taste it a mile away - and it must be awful ! As they will not go near the stuff nor eat anything (which is a problem with a sick tort to begin with....they will not eat- so injections is the next option) with the smell / taste on it . If your RF LOVES bananas and is a "treat" for him, take a small chunk of banana about 1-2" long . Carefully hollow out by cutting a small inner circle within your piece- do not puncture through as your basically going to be making a cup/vase type container with the fruit. Save the piece you cut out....put your meds down inside of the hole of the large remaining chuck ....let it soak a few mins (not too long) cap off hole with the piece you saved. Being aggressive feeders on favorite items (Banana was just an example and easy to work with) they usually will gorge themselves before realizing the just swallowed a bunch of nasty tasting meds they desperately need.


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## Tom (May 31, 2016)

Here is a care sheet and some info that will work for your species. Remember that because he is sick, you need the much higher temperatures that I mentioned, and not the ones listed in the care sheet. Once he is healthy again and you've had no symptoms for at least two weeks, you can drop back down to normal temperatures.

It would be a good idea to maintain an indoor enclosure with the correct temperatures and lighting for nighttime and cold or rainy days, and use the outside enclosure for fair weather.
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/beginner-mistakes.45180/
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/russian-tortoise-care-sheet.80698/


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## lacrime (May 31, 2016)

Thank you guys, I'll try to keep all this in mind and do all that I can. I'm not kidding when I say little to no resources. I'm currently trying to find the right kind of flooring for him. He's still not moving much but the room I moved him to is quite warm and humid. 

I'll read through the care sheets and go from there. Thanks again, I'll do what I can and hope the little fighter will get through this!



N2TORTS said:


> Yes ...you can give it orally ....But.....torts can smell and taste it a mile away - and it must be awful ! As they will not go near the stuff nor eat anything (which is a problem with a sick tort to begin with....they will not eat- so injections is the next option) with the smell / taste on it . If your RF LOVES bananas and is a "treat" for him, take a small chunk of banana about 1-2" long . Carefully hollow out by cutting a small inner circle within your piece- do not puncture through as your basically going to be making a cup/vase type container with the fruit. Save the piece you cut out....put your meds down inside of the hole of the large remaining chuck ....let it soak a few mins (not too long) cap off hole with the piece you saved. Being aggressive feeders on favorite items (Banana was just an example and easy to work with) they usually will gorge themselves before realizing the just swallowed a bunch of nasty tasting meds they desperately need.





Tom said:


> Here is a care sheet and some info that will work for your species. Remember that because he is sick, you need the much higher temperatures that I mentioned, and not the ones listed in the care sheet. Once he is healthy again and you've had no symptoms for at least two weeks, you can drop back down to normal temperatures.
> 
> It would be a good idea to maintain an indoor enclosure with the correct temperatures and lighting for nighttime and cold or rainy days, and use the outside enclosure for fair weather.
> http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/beginner-mistakes.45180/
> http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/russian-tortoise-care-sheet.80698/


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## lacrime (May 31, 2016)

Can I use peat when keeping him in the box?



Tom said:


> Here is a care sheet and some info that will work for your species. Remember that because he is sick, you need the much higher temperatures that I mentioned, and not the ones listed in the care sheet. Once he is healthy again and you've had no symptoms for at least two weeks, you can drop back down to normal temperatures.
> 
> It would be a good idea to maintain an indoor enclosure with the correct temperatures and lighting for nighttime and cold or rainy days, and use the outside enclosure for fair weather.
> http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/beginner-mistakes.45180/
> http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/russian-tortoise-care-sheet.80698/


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## Yvonne G (May 31, 2016)

Don't worry about setting up a proper habitat indoors with substrate, etc. Because the tortoise is sick, you can just keep him in a large plastic tub with newspaper on the bottom. Make sure he has a way to get out of the light, though, some sort of hiding place. Be sure to keep him warmer than usual, as told above, and soak him daily in warm water, whether he likes it or not. If you have a feed store you can shop at, a place that caters to horses, etc. you can see if they sell Terramycin powder.







You would add a quarter teaspoon per quart of water and soak the tortoise in it every day.


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## lacrime (May 31, 2016)

Hello, thank you very much! 

I put him in a box with lots of peat so he'll have opportunity to hide under if he needs to, and he's currently in a room where it's hot and humid. I'll try to find the powder, probably tomorrow, and do the soaking too.

Thank you to all who replied and tried to help. I appreciate it greatly. I'll keep you posted. Hopefully he'll get better again!



Yvonne G said:


> Don't worry about setting up a proper habitat indoors with substrate, etc. Because the tortoise is sick, you can just keep him in a large plastic tub with newspaper on the bottom. Make sure he has a way to get out of the light, though, some sort of hiding place. Be sure to keep him warmer than usual, as told above, and soak him daily in warm water, whether he likes it or not. If you have a feed store you can shop at, a place that caters to horses, etc. you can see if they sell Terramycin powder.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Tom (May 31, 2016)

lacrime said:


> Hello, thank you very much!
> 
> I put him in a box with lots of peat so he'll have opportunity to hide under if he needs to, and he's currently in a room where it's hot and humid. I'll try to find the powder, probably tomorrow, and do the soaking too.
> 
> Thank you to all who replied and tried to help. I appreciate it greatly. I'll keep you posted. Hopefully he'll get better again!



You can use dirt from where he lives outside for substrate, but what he needs is a heat lamp over one side of the enclosure so he can warm up.


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## lacrime (May 31, 2016)

I've put in peat for now and will have to see about the heat lamp tomorrow as it's getting late here. He seems to have retreated into his shell for the night. I'll check on him again tomorrow and look for that lamp. It's quite humid and hot in here, we're in the south and the heat can be hellish for me so I think that would be okay for the tortoise, at least for tonight.

Thank you! 



Tom said:


> You can use dirt from where he lives outside for substrate, but what he needs is a heat lamp over one side of the enclosure so he can warm up.


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## Tom (May 31, 2016)

lacrime said:


> I've put in peat for now and will have to see about the heat lamp tomorrow as it's getting late here. He seems to have retreated into his shell for the night. I'll check on him again tomorrow and look for that lamp. It's quite humid and hot in here, we're in the south and the heat can be hellish for me so I think that would be okay for the tortoise, at least for tonight.
> 
> Thank you!



What is the over night low temperature in the room where he is?


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## Gillian M (May 31, 2016)

A very warm welcome to the forum!

Please post pictures of your tort, and make sure he''s warm.

(I have the same problem: I live in Jordan, where there are *NO* vets for torts. Moreover, there is little or no care for animals/pets in general with the exception of cats and dogs).


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## lacrime (May 31, 2016)

Tom said:


> What is the over night low temperature in the room where he is?



Probably 25-26 C. Just in case, I'm thinking of wrapping a blanket around the box itself, one that used to keep me very warm when I needed it. 



Gillian Moore said:


> A very warm welcome to the forum!
> 
> Please post pictures of your tort, and make sure he''s warm.
> 
> (I have the same problem: I live in Jordan, where there are *NO* vets for torts. Moreover, there is little or no care for animals/pets in general with the exception of cats and dogs).



Thank you, and hello! 

I'm hoping I can keep him warm for now. I'll try to upload a pic on here. Since we leave them be in the garden mostly, per guidance from a friend who knew relatively more than us about tortoises, this was taken when I got him inside while the garden was being mowed and gave some lettuce to keep busy


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## Tom (May 31, 2016)

lacrime said:


> Probably 25-26 C. Just in case, I'm thinking of wrapping a blanket around the box itself, one that used to keep me very warm when I needed it.



Use a thermometer and check the temperature in the box where the tortoise is. If its on the floor, it is probably several degrees cooler down there. 26-26 is too cold for a tortoise that is fighting an RI, and its probably colder than that down on the floor over night. You need a heat source. Heating pad, heat lamp, etc… Do they have pet stores in your area? Get a ceramic heating element and a thermostat.

Being too cold is how this tortoise got sick in the first place. Letting it continue to be too cold, will likely kill it.


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## lacrime (May 31, 2016)

Alright, I'll try and find something to bring up the heat. Don't think that I'm being irresponsible, I'm just trying to come up with solutions the best way I can. It's late in here so I can't go out to do shopping for a heat lamp or any other heat source, so I'm thinking of ways to heat the box up. Let's see.

Thank you for the advice! 



Tom said:


> Use a thermometer and check the temperature in the box where the tortoise is. If its on the floor, it is probably several degrees cooler down there. 26-26 is too cold for a tortoise that is fighting an RI, and its probably colder than that down on the floor over night. You need a heat source. Heating pad, heat lamp, etc… Do they have pet stores in your area? Get a ceramic heating element and a thermostat.
> 
> Being too cold is how this tortoise got sick in the first place. Letting it continue to be too cold, will likely kill it.


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## SarahChelonoidis (May 31, 2016)

lacrime said:


> Probably 25-26 C. Just in case, I'm thinking of wrapping a blanket around the box itself, one that used to keep me very warm when I needed it.



Unless it's an electric blanket, it won't keep the box warm. Blankets keep you warm by trapping your own body heat close to you. That won't help a cold-blooded animal stay warm. You need an external heat source like Tom recommended.


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## lacrime (May 31, 2016)

SarahChelonoidis said:


> Unless it's an electric blanket, it won't keep the box warm. Blankets keep you warm by trapping your own body heat close to you. That won't help a cold-blooded animal stay warm. You need an external heat source like Tom recommended.



I thought I had an electric blanket but alas I was wrong. I did, however, find a heater somewhere and put the box and the heater both in a smaller space than a room, and let it raise the temp inside. It's the best I could come up with at the moment. Tomorrow, I'll have to see about something else as a heat source.


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## Kori5 (May 31, 2016)

You can make a baby food soak. Buy a jar of baby carrot and add it to his soaking water. That's what I've read here . That way he'll get some nutrition. Also, for a basking spot you need a lamp (temporary it could be a clamp one for a desk) and a regular household bulb 60 w. You need to measure the temp underneath it and adjust it so it is about 35 C.


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## lacrime (May 31, 2016)

Kori5 said:


> You can make a baby food soak. Buy a jar of baby carrot and add it to his soaking water. That's what I've read here . That way he'll get some nutrition. Also, for a basking spot you need a lamp (temporary it could be a clamp one for a desk) and a regular household bulb 60 w. You need to measure the temp underneath it and adjust it so it is about 35 C.



Thank you for your reply! For now, I've arranged a heater in the same room and am trying to keep the room temp high. Tomorrow, I'll see about all the rest and perhaps a better heating arrangement.


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## lacrime (Jun 1, 2016)

Yvonne G said:


> Don't worry about setting up a proper habitat indoors with substrate, etc. Because the tortoise is sick, you can just keep him in a large plastic tub with newspaper on the bottom. Make sure he has a way to get out of the light, though, some sort of hiding place. Be sure to keep him warmer than usual, as told above, and soak him daily in warm water, whether he likes it or not. If you have a feed store you can shop at, a place that caters to horses, etc. you can see if they sell Terramycin powder.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Hi, I got the powder, but I wasn't sure whether I should wet every part of his body or just let its belly and legs get wet and that's enough. I know I sound really clueless but that's only because I am. And, well, English


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## lacrime (Jun 11, 2016)

Hi guys, I want to thank everyone for their advise. A quick update, Bicirik seems to be doing fine now, maybe a little irritated because I was keeping him in a box while he was sick. But now that he seems okay, I'm thinking of putting him back to the garden where he usually lives. He's been there 3 years now, faced heavy rain and wind, but maybe the new homeless tortoise we got was a factor in him getting sick, I don't know. I've separated the garden in half so they'll both have their own space and hopefully will be alright from now on.


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