# Dehydration



## Nobody

How can I tell if a tortoise is dehydrating?How does it look?
Thanks.


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## GBtortoises

Tortoises that are dehydrated usually feel lighter, they're eyes will appear sunk in their sockets and their rear legs and neck area may appear very skinny too. Often, they're skin will shed in large, dry pieces where shedding wouldn't typical be noticeable. They will usually not excrete much if any liquid wastes and may eventually lose their appetite in severe cases.


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## kimber_lee_314

Right now I am dealing with a dehydrated greek. I soak him in warm water every day, but it doesn't seem to be helping. Is there anything else I can do for him - short of subQ fluids?


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## dmmj

I don't have greeks myself, but is he eating? if so I soak my guys food in some water before I feed them.


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## terryo

Put some Pedialyte in the water a few times a day.


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## webskipper

So if the Torts defecate within minutes of soaking then that means they are properly hydrated? 

I have never seen so much stinking poop from one baby let alone 3.


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## Maggie Cummings

I had a 4 yr old Gopherous agassizii that I got fresh out of the egg. I soaked her every day or every other day for her 4 years of life. Then one day she stopped eating. When she hadn't eaten in 3 days I took her to the Vet and the very first words out of the Vet's mouth were..."oh my gosh, look at how dehydrated she is"!!! That blew me away! I soaked her at a minimum of every other day. So my faith in soaking tortoises has really changed. I'm not sure soaking often does any good. I know it didn't for Cali. That day I started sub q fluids and still she was dead in 3 weeks.
GBtortoises is correct... when dehydrated they look skinny. I sure didn't notice how skinny she was until the vet pointed that out to me.


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## ChiKat

That worries me, because if soaking doesn't seem to do much to keep them hydrated, how the heck am I supposed to keep Nelson hydrated?! I'm lucky in that I've seen him drink from his water dish on his own (though never when being soaked!) but I haven't seen it recently.
I do wash his greens before he eats them, so he gets some water from that.


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## Madkins007

A good tool for determining if a tort is dehydrated is the Donoghue Ratio: take the tortoises length in centimeters, take it to the third power, and multiply by 0.191 to get a minimum target weight in grams.

Mike Pingleton suggests it does not work as well with babies, but feels that it is a valuable tool overall.

Some ways to increase hydration include:
- Offer very fresh foods with natural moisture levels- esepcially things like cacti pads and thick plant stalks
- Mist, soak, or otherwise moisten foods being offered, especially green stuff
- Offer a good water dish 24/7. It should be big enough to sit in, deep enough to dunk their head at least part-way, easy to get into and out of, and set flush with the substrate. Clean and refill it often.
- Humidity. Many ground animals live in decent humidity- 50%ish, while our winter indoor humidity can be dang close to 0%
- Humid hides. Offer a hiding place with something increasing humidity inside it, like a cloth bag stuffed with sphagnum moss soaked in warm water
- With Red-foots and similar torts, offer 'juicy' fruits. I am not an expert on other species, but I might consider things like cactus fruits, strrawberries, or even melon to help boost hydration for other species of torts.
- Consider soaked bread. I saw this on ShelledWarriors.com for Red-foots and my knee-jerk reaction was NO WAY, but I can actually see it helping dehydrated torts.


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## Homerist

Nobody said:


> How can I tell if a tortoise is dehydrating?How does it look?
> Thanks.



not sure whether there is a standard look. but for mine, he appear listless, less responsive and walking like a drunkard.
He still eats and poo normally. maybe mine was mild dehydration.


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## GBtortoises

Some ways to increase hydration include:
- Offer very fresh foods with natural moisture levels- esepcially things like cacti pads and thick plant stalks
- Mist, soak, or otherwise moisten foods being offered, especially green stuff
- Offer a good water dish 24/7. It should be big enough to sit in, deep enough to dunk their head at least part-way, easy to get into and out of, and set flush with the substrate. Clean and refill it often.
- Humidity. Many ground animals live in decent humidity- 50%ish, while our winter indoor humidity can be dang close to 0%
- Humid hides. Offer a hiding place with something increasing humidity inside it, like a cloth bag stuffed with sphagnum moss soaked in warm water
- With Red-foots and similar torts, offer 'juicy' fruits. I am not an expert on other species, but I might consider things like cactus fruits, strrawberries, or even melon to help boost hydration for other species of torts.
- Consider soaked bread. I saw this on ShelledWarriors.com for Red-foots and my knee-jerk reaction was NO WAY, but I can actually see it helping dehydrated torts. 

Most of the above suggestions are excellent. Tortoises typically become dehydrated because of two reasons: Being kept in an environment that is much too hot and dry or due to illness. The most common cause of dehydration brought on by illness is usually because of overflourishing protozoa which cause a digestive imbalance. Food and liquid literally goes right through them. 

Pedialyte contains salt products, which essentially make you thirsty and want to drink more. But pedialyte also contains sugars, which is one of the last things that you want to feed a dehydrated tortoise whose digestive system is under duress. 

So before automatically feeding them fruit or Pedialyte, both of which contain a lot of sugar, the source of the dehydration needs to be indentified and dealt with. If the dehydration is due to environment there are several things that can be done to solve the problem, some of which are listed above. The big three are to add more warm humidity to the air in the enclosure and a more moist substrate. Additional water should be offered in the form of "soaking" which many people on this forum are against. But in the case of a dehydrated tortoise that is often inactive or weak they will often not go to water on their own. In this case they need to be soaked in slightly tempid water at least once daily, preferrably twice a day. Once in the morning after warming up to normal activity levels and again in the evening an hour or so before lights out. Pedialyte may or may not be helpful in this case. If the tortoise is physically weak Pedialyte is not recommended.

If it has been determined that the dehydration has been brought on by disrupted digestive processing then the tortoise should be medicated and the above process followed. Pedialyte should not be used in this case because you are adding sugar to an already weakened digestive system. One more thing the tortoise has attempt to process which it normally would not have to.

A better alternative to Pedialyte when used for tortoises:

1 quart unchlorinated water
2 tablespoons baking soda
1/2 teaspoon potassium chloride (salt substitute)
1/2 teaspoon salt

Warm water to 110-120 degrees to faciliate better mixing of ingredients. Mix all ingredients well and cool. Can be refrigerated for several days (maybe longer).

If you find that a dehydrated tortoise absolutely refuses to drink it a little bit of Kool-Aid flavoring can be added.

The above is basically a "home" version used before bottled Pedialyte came along. The original recipe (for humans) also contains flavoring (Kool-Aid) and 2 tablespoons of sugar.


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## Madkins007

GBtortoises said:


> Most of the above suggestions are excellent. Tortoises typically become dehydrated because of two reasons: Being kept in an environment that is much too hot and dry or due to illness. The most common cause of dehydration brought on by illness is usually because of overflourishing protozoa which cause a digestive imbalance. Food and liquid literally goes right through them.



Interesting you should mention that. Protozoa is the specific reason the author who mentioned the soaked bread gave for using it (Box Girl). I don't know what the connection between bread and protozoa is, though.



> Pedialyte contains salt products, which essentially make you thirsty and want to drink more. But pedialyte also contains sugars, which is one of the last things that you want to feed a dehydrated tortoise whose digestive system is under duress.



My question is whether there is any real evidence that soaks in anything like that work? We debate whether soaks really work at all, and I really wonder if either salts or sugars are taken up via the cloaca.

Certainly, if your tort drinks when soaking, it helps- but my torts only drink about 1/5th of the time. 

Another option I found online is to increase in foods rich in potassium and water, like tomatoes (caution- can cause diarrhea in some torts), mushrooms, spinach, figs, dates, banana (note- high in sugar), cantaloupe with skin, or sprinkle a little dried bakers yeast on other foods. (Cocoa powder is REALLY high in potassium if you need another reason to eat chocolate.).

I also like your home-made recipe idea! Thanks!


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## GBtortoises

I've never heard the bread idea so I really don't know if it works or not. I'm not sure what function the bread serves either.

As far as soaking, the tortoise has to still be strong enough to drink. I've always thought that the term "soaking" isn't really accurate, at least not in the way that most people think of it. Most people think of soaking as a way to absorb moisture. As if the tortoise's skin is going to suck in water like a sponge! I try to refer to the process as watering, not soaking. I have never believed that tortoises absorb very much, if any water through their clocoa or skin. 

Because it is so dry indoors where I have to keep my tortoises I regularly water them by placing them in individual containers with tempid, knee deep water. Some drink, some don't. A tortoise may drink one time and that same tortoise may not drink again for the next few times. I've found no pattern. I believe that it is solely based on their need for hydration.

I think that if a tortoise is simply dehydrated because of dry environmental conditions it is fine to offer water laden foods, even if they do have some sugar content in them. Whatever you can get it eat that will help rehydrate it. Along with diet the environment needs to be changed to prevent dehydration in the future. In this same situation Pedilyte is probably fine. 
But if it's a case where the dehydration is due to or in conjunction with a protozoa imbalance foods containing high amounts of sugar are not a good idea. In simple terms it is only going to cause more stress to the already taxed digestive system.
That home made recipe is actually a variation of one our family doctor gave to my mother when I was kid! I just took out the sugar and flavoring for the tortoises. I used it quite a number of years ago for some newly imported tortoises that were in bad shape. It seemed to have done the job, or at least helped because all the tortoises made it through.


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## dmmj

well I am gonna go against the grain here, but if it is drinking on it's own, is it really dehydrated?


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## GBtortoises

It's drinking on it's own to rehydrate itself or to maintain hydration. Tortoises with minor dehydration usually will still drink on their own as long as water is available. Until the point that they are too weak to do so. I've had dehydrated wild caught tortoises that seem to drink a gallon (exaggerated of course) and then 10 minutes later after being placed back in their enclosure are sitting in a puddle of waste water that they just expelled. So they aren't retaining what they should.


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## DoctorCosmonaut

I don't soak my girls too often, unless they are dirty. Neither seem to like it, they always just want up and out (and no I'm not sitting them in boiling or freezing water). They usually don't drink because they seem to preoccupied with not liking the soak (not that they haven't drunk while in there).

I just mist, provide clean water (change it once to twice a day), and mist them/their food while eating.


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## GBtortoises

DoctorCosmonaut said:


> I don't soak my girls too often, unless they are dirty. Neither seem to like it, they always just want up and out (and no I'm not sitting them in boiling or freezing water). They usually don't drink because they seem to preoccupied with not liking the soak (not that they haven't drunk while in there).
> 
> I just mist, provide clean water (change it once to twice a day), and mist them/their food while eating.




If you're providing water within their enclosure what would be the need to remove them and water them anyway? I do the same with my Redfoots (offer constant clean water & misting) and I never remove them to offer them water elsewhere. They're entire enclosure is moist all the time. But other species cannot (and should not) be kept like Redfoots and vice versa. Dehydration oddly enough, seems to be a problem moreso with arid climate and some Middle Eastern and Northern Mediterranean species. I think alot of it has to do with the misguided belief that they should be kept dry and hot all the time which simply is not true.


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