# ANIMAL BITES



## DeanS (Sep 14, 2010)

I found an interesting expert site and want some of you to chime in with your thoughts (knowledge). I'm actually listed in the post so I'll not repeat my answers. FYI, my info is based on field research that dated back up to 20 - 30 years...and for the record, I NEVER found Dr Barr's meter to prove very accurate. Read the post and let's hear what you have to offer!

http://en.allexperts.com/q/Wild-Animals-705/f/Animal-Jaw-Strength.htm


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## dmmj (Sep 14, 2010)

I am unsure of this article's purpose, and with all of the "experts" chiming in it is hard to say who is correct. All I know is I would not want to be bitten by any of them, I have always heard that once a crocodile or alligator clamps down on you your toast based on the way the jaw is designed. Of course I do not want to test that. Interesting read though.


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## APBT_Fanatic (Sep 14, 2010)

Deleted.....


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## DonaTello's-Mom (Sep 19, 2010)

Thanks Dean for the info. I always wanted to know my pitbulls (Bacardi) PSI........I sure would 
hate to get bit by him!! Ouch!


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## Tom (Sep 20, 2010)

There are at least three inherent problems with the actual measurement of an animals bite force.

1. Whatever device you use will have shortcomings of some sort. That hard plastic thing the Dr. Barr used is not something that most animals are going to want to bite full force.
2. How hard they bite, totally depends on the animals motivation. A warning bite that says "hey back off", is not going to be a full force bite usually. When you poke a stick at most animals, this is likely the type of bite you'll get. Likewise, they don't bite prey as hard as they can either. They just bite hard enough to sink their teeth in and hold on.
3. Individuals within a species (or breed if we are talking dogs) can vary greatly in their bite force.

Now then, if we are rating dogs, I happen to have almost 20 years experience getting bitten by almost every breed out there. Aggression work has been a profession AND hobby of mine for that long. I hold 6 National Championships in Bite work sports. I base the following on thousands of bites from hundreds of individual. In thinking about how hard a dog bites, think about what they are bred to do. Retrievers should have a soft mouth while protection dog breeds should have a devastating hard mouth.

Hardest biting dog breeds:
1. Belgian Malinois. Winner for sure. Unquestionable. No doubt whatsoever. Not the little Frenchies, but the big Belgian lines. Also, certain lines bite much harder than the norm. We call these "bone crushers". The name is very appropriate.
2. German shepard. There have been three individuals, out of hundreds, that firmly win this prize for the Alsation.

Note: The top two here are in a class by themselves. No other breed is even close to them for bite force. All other breeds are way below these two.

3. Rottweiler. Big dogs, hard bite.
4. American Bulldog. Same as above.
5. Briard, Doberman, Giant Schnauzer, Beauceron, Bullmastiff. I've encountered hard biters of all these breeds in my travels.

Notice that "pit bulls" are not anywhere on this list. This is because they are not hard biters. Most of them can't be made to bite at all. Remember, I'm a professional bite work trainer. I train dogs when and how to bite. The initial stages are very fun and game-like. Most pitties enjoy this phase and happily participate. As the training moves along things become more confrontational and serious and MOST (not all) pitties will only bite half-heartedly, if at all, during this phase. I've seen some really good biting pits, but their bite strength is nowhere near these other breeds. Pitbulls are generally very nice dogs, but they are not hard biters in comparison to these others.


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## JourneyTort (Sep 20, 2010)

Tom said:


> Notice that "pit bulls" are not anywhere on this list. This is because they are not hard biters. Most of them can't be made to bite at all. Remember, I'm a professional bite work trainer. I train dogs when and how to bite. The initial stages are very fun and game-like. Most pitties enjoy this phase and happily participate.



Just a comment re bites, I would rather be bit by a Staffie than a whippet when it comes to the play/fun tugging that involves biting/gripping, my experience is whippets have no bite inhibition and you will end up with blood when playing if they make contact with skin. Their teeth are like a knife and butter, just slides into the skin. Ouch!!


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## DeanS (Sep 20, 2010)

Tom said:


> There are at least three inherent problems with the actual measurement of an animals bite force.
> 
> 1. Whatever device you use will have shortcomings of some sort. That hard plastic thing the Dr. Barr used is not something that most animals are going to want to bite full force.
> 2. How hard they bite, totally depends on the animals motivation. A warning bite that says "hey back off", is not going to be a full force bite usually. When you poke a stick at most animals, this is likely the type of bite you'll get. Likewise, they don't bite prey as hard as they can either. They just bite hard enough to sink their teeth in and hold on.
> ...



Funny thing you mentioning the Malinois. This breed is another DIRECT descendent of the European Gray wolf...so I'm not in the least bit surprised as to its biting power.

Also, to elaborate on Dr Barr's BPSI gauge...there is a point where each animal's bite is the strongest and there is no way to train a wild animal to bite just how you want. And a trained wild animal is not going to display the ferocity of a wild relative on command.


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## DonaTello's-Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

Belgian Malinois.......beautiful dogs.


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## Tom (Sep 20, 2010)

Here are mine:
This is Bullet, Brownie and Hank. In that order. Brownie, the middle dog, just died suddenly and unexpectedly from cancer. Hank, the dark one, is a Dutch Shepard. He's scary looking, but he's really just a big spaz. Bullet and his Daddy, Porter, are the two hardest biting dogs ever, according to several professional decoys. I took lots of bites from Porter and he's the only dog that ever hurt me through a professional grade bite suit and a 1/4 inch neoprene gauntlet. He was a serious dog. Bullet and Brownie have both hamburgered some skin through bite suits to. Several guys didn't think they needed gauntlets due to high quality suits, experience and how many other dogs they have taken bites from. Those guys frequently went home bloody, bruised and injured. We tried to warn them, but they thought they knew better.





This is Sophie, my younger female. She is CRAZY with drive. Hits like a ton of bricks. Always knocks the newbies down.


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## APBT_Fanatic (Sep 20, 2010)

Tom said:


> Notice that "pit bulls" are not anywhere on this list. This is because they are not hard biters. Most of them can't be made to bite at all. Remember, I'm a professional bite work trainer. I train dogs when and how to bite. The initial stages are very fun and game-like. Most pitties enjoy this phase and happily participate. As the training moves along things become more confrontational and serious and MOST (not all) pitties will only bite half-heartedly, if at all, during this phase. I've seen some really good biting pits, but their bite strength is nowhere near these other breeds. Pitbulls are generally very nice dogs, but they are not hard biters in comparison to these others.



Thank you!


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## TortieGal (Sep 20, 2010)

Here's my girl Riley, a great well behaved dog. 




German Shepherd.


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## Skyler Nell (Sep 20, 2010)

TortieGal said:


> Here's my girl Riley, a great well behaved dog.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I have a female German Shepard named Riley too!!!
small world :]
beautiful dogs everyone


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## TortieGal (Sep 20, 2010)

I love the name Riley!


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