# Spot Bulb vs Flood Bulb vs CHE



## ayrgrn (Mar 15, 2019)

Hello all,
I am thinking about changing my MVB to a separate UVB flood and a heat bulb but I don't know which heat source to get for basking.
I've found some that look good:
Arcadia spotlight
Arcadia Flood lamp
Or a CHE
What works best for basking?
Thanks


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## G-stars (Mar 15, 2019)

I use regular flood bulbs for basking, and I’ve used CHEs to maintain night temps. A CHE is not meant to be used as a basking type heat source since it produces not visible light. I don’t use any UVB sources. Nothing better than the sun, even if it’s only for 30 mins 2-3 times a week. 

Hibernating species don’t get any UVB for months and they are just fine.


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## ayrgrn (Mar 15, 2019)

Okay thanks.
I live in the UK and hardly get any sun until around June/July so I need a uvb strip unfortunately.


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## Lyn W (Mar 15, 2019)

I'm in UK too and use Arcadia MVBs as they are the easiest for my set up, but I know many of the more experienced keepers like the tubes better.
I also have a basking bulb in another area.
The che, which I run through a thermostat, is to help keep temps even at night only.
Torts need darkness to sleep and che's can last for years.


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## ayrgrn (Mar 15, 2019)

Lyn W said:


> I'm in UK too and use Arcadia MVBs as they are the easiest for my set up.
> But I also have a basking bulb in another area.
> The che, which I run through a thermostat, is to help keep temps even at night only.
> Torts need darkness to sleep and che's can last for years.


Thanks for info, could you send a picture of your setup and tort?


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## Tom (Mar 15, 2019)

-No spots. These cause more pyramiding.
-No MVBs. These have all sorts of problems and also cause pyramiding.
-Floods are the best compromise to create a basking area without overly desiccating the carapace. I use low wattage ones and adjust the height to get the correct basking temp.
-CHEs are for ambient temp maintenance and should be run through a thermostat.


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## ayrgrn (Mar 15, 2019)

Tom said:


> -No spots. These cause more pyramiding.
> -No MVBs. These have all sorts of problems and also cause pyramiding.
> -Floods are the best compromise to create a basking area without overly desiccating the carapace. I use low wattage ones and adjust the height to get the correct basking temp.
> -CHEs are for ambient temp maintenance and should be run through a thermostat.


Okay thanks, do I need a reflector dome with the flood bulb?


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## Lyn W (Mar 15, 2019)

ayrgrn said:


> Thanks for info, could you send a picture of your setup and tort?


My tort has his own room as he's too big for a table or viv.
He has had to move out of there for a while so is in a temp set up at the moment so I can't post any pics.
That's him in my avatar - if you click on it you'll get a bigger pic.
He's a leopard approx 9 years old. I've had him almost 5 years.


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## Lyn W (Mar 15, 2019)

Tom said:


> -No spots. These cause more pyramiding.
> -No MVBs. These have all sorts of problems and also cause pyramiding.
> -Floods are the best compromise to create a basking area without overly desiccating the carapace. I use low wattage ones and adjust the height to get the correct basking temp.
> -CHEs are for ambient temp maintenance and should be run through a thermostat.


So for uvb in our climate, a tube would be better than the mvb?


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## ayrgrn (Mar 15, 2019)

Lyn W said:


> My tort has his own room as he's too big for a table or viv.
> He has had to move out of there for a while so is in a temp set up at the moment so I can't post any pics.
> That's him in my avatar - if you click on it you'll get a bigger pic.
> He's a leopard approx 9 years old. I've had him almost 5 years.


Okay thanks, nice tort


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## Tom (Mar 15, 2019)

ayrgrn said:


> Okay thanks, do I need a reflector dome with the flood bulb?


I use them most of the time.


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## Tom (Mar 15, 2019)

Lyn W said:


> So for uvb in our climate, a tube would be better than the mvb?


I prefer Arcadia 12% HO tubes. Strong UV and long lasting. They can also be mounted farther away. They are effective at 20-24" with a reflector in most cases.


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## Tom (Mar 15, 2019)

Lyn W said:


> So for uvb in our climate, a tube would be better than the mvb?


Yes in any climate.

MVBs have so many problems and are so short lived. Before these HO tubes hit the market, MVBs were the best thing going. When MVBs hit the market in the late 90s, I was literally using them to save and rehab animals in various stages of MBD. No other bulb had worked previously. Do you remember "Vita-Lite"?

As time wore on, I learned more and more about the problems associated with MVBs:

They are expensive.
They tend to burn out prematurely.
They are very delicate.
They run very hot. Too hot for closed chambers.
Some of them stop producing any UV at 3 months.
They create high levels of IR-A which desiccate the carapace and contribute to pyramiding.
MVBs aren't dangerous or harmful. They are just not a good option for most people due to all of the above. In contrast, the new HO tubes have NONE of the above listed problems. I suppose someone could argue that they are expensive if one considers the necessary fixture to run them, but I would counter with how long they last. I have some that have been in daily use for more than 3 years and their UV output is still great! No MVB is still working, much less making UV, even one year later, much less 3+.

These are just my opinions and observations. Unlike some tortoise practices that can actually do harm, like sand substrates, I don't feel the need to argue with people about these bulbs. If someone has an adult tortoise and they aren't too worried about pyramiding, I don't think MVBs are all that bad. They do make UV when new, and they do warm up nicely for larger enclosures that aren't closed in. As long as people know about the pros and cons of each, I'm content to take a back seat to personal preference on this matter.


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## ayrgrn (Mar 16, 2019)

Tom said:


> Yes in any climate.
> 
> MVBs have so many problems and are so short lived. Before these HO tubes hit the market, MVBs were the best thing going. When MVBs hit the market in the late 90s, I was literally using them to save and rehab animals in various stages of MBD. No other bulb had worked previously. Do you remember "Vita-Lite"?
> 
> ...


Thanks for all this info Tom!


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## Joetheyido (Mar 16, 2019)

Im in UK and keep stars, reedfoot and Herman's. I had 80w Arcadia mvbs for stars and my redfoot when they was in smaller vivs. My sister works at pets at home so I got them and Arcadia stuff cheaper. They worked fine and I haven't seen any bad effects a few years on. Now I have them in bigger vivs I have put in Arcadia ho uv tubes and che's mainly due to the vivs being so big. I really ike the Arcadia flood bulbs for basking but they are rubbish for how much they are, they don't last long at all, the bigger watt ones seem to do better. I still use a mvb that's a few years old for if I bring the Herman's in and its still putting out uvb like it's new. Just my experience so far.


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## PA2019 (Mar 22, 2019)

Joetheyido said:


> Im in UK and keep stars, reedfoot and Herman's. I had 80w Arcadia mvbs for stars and my redfoot when they was in smaller vivs. My sister works at pets at home so I got them and Arcadia stuff cheaper. They worked fine and I haven't seen any bad effects a few years on. Now I have them in bigger vivs I have put in Arcadia ho uv tubes and che's mainly due to the vivs being so big. I really ike the Arcadia flood bulbs for basking but they are rubbish for how much they are, they don't last long at all, the bigger watt ones seem to do better. I still use a mvb that's a few years old for if I bring the Herman's in and its still putting out uvb like it's new. Just my experience so far.



Could you post some pics of your stars? I’m curious about the effects of a MVB on their shells long term. MVB’s are soppossed to be pretty dessicating to a shell, so I wonder how pyramided they became, thanks!


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## Joetheyido (Mar 23, 2019)

PA2019 said:


> Could you post some pics of your stars? I’m curious about the effects of a MVB on their shells long term. MVB’s are soppossed to be pretty dessicating to a shell, so I wonder how pyramided they became, thanks!


Sure. The one of the stars in the Viv is when I first bought them and holding was a few months ago, they was probly under mvb for 2years so not sure if that's classed as long time.


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## PA2019 (Mar 23, 2019)

Joetheyido said:


> Sure. The one of the stars in the Viv is when I first bought them and holding was a few months ago, they was probly under mvb for 2years so not sure if that's classed as long time.
> View attachment 267991
> View attachment 267993
> View attachment 267994



Now that is interesting! The pyramiding seems very minimal even with the MVB bulb used. They look great, nice work!


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## TaylorTortoise (Apr 9, 2021)

ayrgrn said:


> Okay thanks, do I need a reflector dome with the flood bulb?


@Tom For a 65 watt or low wattage flood bulb are they safe to put in a ceramic dome shaped fixture?
Are flood bulbs safe? I would assume using the higher wattage flood bulbs seem more of a fire hazard in ceramic domes.. but I am also not an expert. Please advise!


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## Tom (Apr 9, 2021)

Taylorlynn48 said:


> @Tom For a 65 watt or low wattage flood bulb are they safe to put in a ceramic dome shaped fixture?
> Are flood bulbs safe? I would assume using the higher wattage flood bulbs seem more of a fire hazard in ceramic domes.. but I am also not an expert. Please advise!


Yes, they are safe in a ceramic dome. Yes they are safe. Every electiracle bulb that emits heat is a potential fire hazard. Securely hang the fixtures from over head, and there should be no fires. This also allows you to adjust the height up or down to get the correct basking temperature under it.


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## TaylorTortoise (Apr 10, 2021)

Tom said:


> Yes, they are safe in a ceramic dome. Yes they are safe. Every electiracle bulb that emits heat is a potential fire hazard. Securely hang the fixtures from over head, and there should be no fires. This also allows you to adjust the height up or down to get the correct basking temperature under it.


@Tom What type of overhead? A 65 watt flood bulb is equivalent to using a 100 watt basking light at a pet store to get the ambient temps you need? Depending on where the light is placed.


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## Tom (Apr 10, 2021)

Taylorlynn48 said:


> @Tom What type of overhead? A 65 watt flood bulb is equivalent to using a 100 watt basking light at a pet store to get the ambient temps you need? Depending on where the light is placed.


There are four elements to heating and lighting:

Basking bulb. I use 65 watt incandescent floods from the hardware store. Some people will need bigger, or smaller wattage bulbs. Let your thermometer be your guide. I run them on a timer for about 12 hours and adjust the height to get the correct basking temp under them. I also like to use a flat rock of some sort directly under the bulb. You need to check the temp with a thermometer directly under the bulb and get it to around 95-100F (36-37C).
Ambient heat maintenance. I use ceramic heating elements or radiant heat panels set on thermostats to maintain ambient above 80 degrees day and night for tropical species. You'd only need day heat for a temperate species like Testudo or DT, as long as your house stays above 60F (15-16C) at night.
Light. I use LEDs for this purpose. Something in the 5000-6500K color range will look the best. Most bulbs at the store are in the 2500K range and they look yellowish. Strip or screw-in bulb types are both fine.
UV. If you can get your tortoise outside for an hour 2 or 3 times a week, you won't need indoor UV. In the UK, get one of the newer HO type fluorescent tubes. Which type will depend on mounting height. 5.0 bulbs make almost no UV. I like the 12%. You need a meter to check this: https://www.solarmeter.com/model65.html


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