# Daisy Lou and her puffy eyes



## Torty Mom (Nov 23, 2010)

Looking for some thoughts on the little woman's puffy eyes, if you all don't mind, I would love to hear your thoughts. Lisa and I took these pictures this afternoon. I told Maggie I would post some current pictures. So, anyone any thoughts or suggestions? 

I have only had her for 10 days, she has had terramycin eye ointment for 6 days, and is fed a very healty diet. She is an excellent eater and has not turned anything down! May have to rename her Miss Piggy!! 

Daily soaks, and 2 x's with carrots and vitasol, natural sunshine everyday, except yesterday and today, MVB when the babies are sleeping. Mazuri meatballs a few times and pumpkin 2 x's. 

Maggie suggested powdered terramycin for some soaks, will get that today.

So, as I am typing this I heard a rather loud squeek, turned around and Daisy is sticking her bottom up like a stink bug, so I looked, and she was passing a HUGE white stone. It is 1" and is hard as a rock, Lisa tried to smash it and it wouldn't even smash. Holy COW!!! I soaked her earlier today, but I am going to soak her again right now. 

How long does it take for something like that to happen? I really don't want to take a picture of it, but if someone wants to see it I will. 

Thanks in advance for your thoughts!!!


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## Marty333 (Nov 23, 2010)

Pictures would help us identify it but she is a very pretty girl!


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## Torty Mom (Nov 23, 2010)

Well, it's either super hard urates or a bladder stone. Glad she got it out. Yikes!


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## Torty Mom (Nov 23, 2010)

Ugh! Ok, I'll do it......give me about 5 minutes.


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## DonaTello's-Mom (Nov 23, 2010)

Torty Mom said:


> Well, it's either super hard urates or a bladder stone. Glad she got it out. Yikes!


Oh the poor girl! I hope she's doing better now.........that must have been painful to pass..


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## Torty Mom (Nov 23, 2010)

Here it is is it 1" x 1". Her vent looks a little swollen, she is soaking now, I think there is another one


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## Maggie Cummings (Nov 23, 2010)

Well, I think she is beautiful, but I need to know whats wrong with her eyes. It certainly has nothing to do with husbandry. I think that stone is from her last keeper not soaking her. I'd say she was extremely dehydrated...

Now that we're on the subject, I have been told about a Sulcata in SoCal who is getting such bad care she's gonna die without help. I am trying to find out what city she is in and then I will make a thread and try to get her rescued...

Where's the pix of that rock???


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## kimmer (Nov 23, 2010)

Torty Mom said:


> Here it is is it 1" x 1". Her vent looks a little swollen, she is soaking now, I think there is another one


Oh my goodness! Daisy Lou must have been waiting for your care to pass this out.


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## Becki (Nov 23, 2010)

For some reason I just love this girl! Is there a remedy that will help stones pass?


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## Kristina (Nov 23, 2010)

Keep her warm and keep soaking her, very warm and hydrated.

You can feed her softer foods for a few days, until her vent starts to feel better. Cooked squash and cooked pumpkin (canned as fine, but you want pure pumpkin, NOT pie filling) would be great for her. It won't help with the other stone (the warm soaks will) but it will be easier for her to pass without straining. She might experience a little internal tearing around the vent, and the pumpkin and squash will pass easily and give her time to heal. If she was squealing, she was in a LOT of pain, poor baby!

I would be soaking as much as humanly possible, no less than twice a day and as many warm soaks as you can muster. You can set the soaking tub on a heating pad or put a heat lamp over her to keep it warm. The warm water will relax her muscles and tissues and make it easier for her to get any more stones out.


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## Torty Mom (Nov 23, 2010)

If there is one, I need it, well Daisy needs it!! Momma mia, is all I can say. She is soaking, right now and is relaxed, eyes closed, I'm spooning warm water over her. 

Maggie can you see the picture, it's up a few posts...

Becki, she is the sweetest thing ever! 

So any thoughts on stone or eyes? 



Thanks Kristina! I have been giving her mazuri and greens mixed in every 2 or 3 days. I will thaw the extra pumpkin I have for her. She is soaked twice a day, I will add more soaks. 

I knew she was not taken care of, so Lisa and I have each been soaking her once. Once in the am and then again in the pm. I have yet to see her drink, when I give her greens I leave them wet.

I am so trying not to panic!!


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## Maggie Cummings (Nov 23, 2010)

Holy cow that must have hurt. Kristina has given the best advice, there's nothing I can add to it, but I'm thinkin that there's something between the stone and the swollen eyes. The two are tied together and when the stones are gone the swollen eyes will be also. I don't exactly know how they are tied together but I think they are. Is there another stone coming?


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## Torty Mom (Nov 23, 2010)

I just got her out of a soak, I'll check.

I don't see anything yet, but shortly after she passed the last one, when she peed only a drop came out, so I am thinking maybe there is another one, blocking the flow? When I touch around her vent, I do not feel anything. 

Maggie, do you think it could be the pressure of the stone causing her eyes to bug out?


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## coreyc (Nov 23, 2010)

Torty Mom said:


> I just got her out of a soak, I'll check.
> 
> I don't see anything yet, but shortly after she passed the last one, when she peed only a drop came out, so I am thinking maybe there is another one, blocking the flow? When I touch around her vent, I do not feel anything.
> 
> Maggie, do you think it could be the pressure of the stone causing her eyes to bug out?





If I was trying to pass something like that my eyes would bug out
hope she feels better


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## Kristina (Nov 23, 2010)

Less likely the pressure and more likely some sort of toxicity from blockage...

Just keep soaking, it is the best you can do for her. Warm and hydrated. And keep her moving. Think of it like a person with a kidney stone.


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## Torty Mom (Nov 23, 2010)

My eyes bugged out just watching coreyc! 

Thank Kristina! Will do!! Have you ever seen eyes do that?


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## Kristina (Nov 23, 2010)

Not necessarily. I have seen eyes swollen from some sort of infection or irritation, but I also have seen other parts of the body swollen and puffy due to renal issues. I have a sneaking suspicion that Maggie is right, there is some sort of correlation there. Not that I know *why,* it is just a gut feeling.


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## abra (Nov 23, 2010)

Aw! Poor baby! I hope she gets better!


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## Yvonne G (Nov 23, 2010)

Mineral oil is non-absorbtive. If you put a few drops down her throat and up her cloaca, it will coat whatever's in the "pipes" and help it to come out (if there is anything), and it won't hurt her...it will just pass right on through.


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## Maggie Cummings (Nov 23, 2010)

I am going with a toxicity issue. She's got some sort of a kidney/bladder problem and toxins are backed up. I'm just guessing, but that's my instinct...for whatever it's worth...and it's showing with those swollen eyes as the only symptom...

That's a good idea Yvonne and I should have thought of it myself, having done it with several animals. Only I used a syringe without the needle and squirted the oil up into the cloaca...


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## Torty Mom (Nov 23, 2010)

Well alrighty then......a mineral enema it is then! Not looking so forward to this! Oh Lisa......I need you..... LOL!!! Time to put my big girl panties on a take care of business. 

This is what I was worried about.....I am so upset now and having a moment.

So, do I need an emergency vet appointment tomorrow, or am I ok to try this remedy? 

How much am I squirting into the front end and the back end?


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## Yvonne G (Nov 23, 2010)

Piece of cake! A little syringe with no needle...a few ml's in each end. Your work is done!

time for me to go watch Gibbs!! G'night all...


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## egyptiandan (Nov 23, 2010)

Yes thats a bladder stone and nothing to do with urates. The bladder stones come from a diet to high in oxalic acid, which binds with calcium forming stones. 
There quite possibly could be more stones or just a bigger one.  The mineral oil is what I'd recommend, but only as an enema. Might be worth while to go to the vets and get an x-ray, which will show if there are more stones.
Yes eyes can "bug out" when straining to push something out. Looks more like a vitamin A deficiency to me though from the poor diet.
Just keep up with everything your doing now. 

Danny


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## Torty Mom (Nov 23, 2010)

Thanks Danny! I will do what the 3 of you have suggested. I too thought is was vitamin A, but after tonights adventure, I am a little freaked out. I work with 14 ~ 5 year olds so it actually takes alot to freak me out. There is a vet 5 minutes away and I will see about an xray tomorrow, and the treaded enema. I hope she doen't stay mad at me for long... sigh

Thanks Yvonne! I appreciate your help!! 

Maggie, thank you so much for helping me! I'd have been lost without your help and guidance. Love ya!! 

Kristina, thanks for your help!! 

To everyone else, thank you all so very much for your kind words and help! I love TFO and I am thankful for all the help I have gotten! YOU GUYS ROCK!!!

Especially for looking at my pictures and telling me how cute Daisy Lou is and my babies.


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## Yvonne G (Nov 24, 2010)

Please keep this in mind: If you DO end up going to the vet, DO NOT allow him/her to give the tortoise a vitamin A injection. It is usually called A,D,E. Even so, no vitamin injection!! It is VERY easy to get vitamin A into a turtle or tortoise via the food and supplements you feed. There is NO NEED for an injection.


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## Laura (Nov 24, 2010)

Most of us here dont just love the animals, but we care about the people who love them too!!! 
You arent looking forward to the enema.. what about the tort! However,, i hope it works and it all comes out ok..

So its not a rock she ate, but definatley a bladder stone?? 
i think I would want an xray just to know how many you are dealing with. 
I would also be tempted to contact the previous owner just to give them an update..


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## Yvonne G (Nov 24, 2010)

Gerber baby food soaks will aid with the vit. A defficiency. Use either carrots, sweet potatoes or squash. 

Also adding liquid bird vitamins to the soaking water. Either/or. I wouldn't use both.


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## froghaven5 (Nov 24, 2010)

Yikes! As someone who has had a kidney stone, I totally can empathize with Daisy Lou. I hope her stone and puffy eye situation is resolved soon.


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## nascarmw (Nov 24, 2010)

hey thanks everybody for the help with Little Miss Daisy! she is not eating today and walking slowly..but walking around. I gave her a warm soak this morning and will do another one in about an hour...I am sure she has more stones as she is hard as a rock "down there". Mary Ann and I sure appreciate the help with little girl! Thanks, Lisa


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## Torty Mom (Nov 24, 2010)

Should every soak be done with either the baby food or the vitasol? 

Lisa has soaked her twice, I soaked her once and then she will get another one later today. I will soak her again 2 hours after the "Procedure". I told Lisa I would hold Daisy for her.......  YIKES! Wish us luck....were going in.....


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## Torty Mom (Nov 24, 2010)

Well Lisa is a hero in my book! She took care of the "violation" and did a great job! I love you Lisa! I would be lost with out you! I of course, poor me, had the more difficult task of holding Daisy Lou upside down, lie to her, and tell her I had nothing to do with it, the whole time she was staring at me! 

Daisy Lou is a trooper and didn't even give us any trouble. Nothing has happened as of yet, so I am hoping there are no more! I am still shocked that she was able to pass it. 

Her right eyes looks to be a little less puffy! YEA!! Maybe with that crud out, she will show a little more progress. I am looking forward to the next 4 days off, so I can pamper her and soak the daylights out of her!!!

Thanks EVERYONE for your help and well wishes, I totally appreciate it!! 

I think she is the sweetest tortie on the planet


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## laura808 (Nov 24, 2010)

so how many stones were in there? Yikes! What a good little girl!


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## ALDABRAMAN (Nov 25, 2010)

WOW, I really hope she gets better. That was horrible.


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## Torty Mom (Nov 25, 2010)

laura808 said:


> so how many stones were in there? Yikes! What a good little girl!



Laura, she only passed 1, I am planning on taking her Saturday for an xray to see if there are more. We put the mineral oil in her to help anymore pass a little easier. If we are lucky that is the only one! 

Thanks for asking, I appreciate it! 



ALDABRAMAN said:


> WOW, I really hope she gets better. That was horrible.



Thanks Greg! It was horrible. I am hoping Daisy feels better!!!


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