# I`ve burned my tortoises eyes !



## Bee62 (Feb 21, 2020)

Hello, I want to share with you a bad experience with UVB & UVA light and tortoises eyes.

I bought 2 new Arcadia D3 bulbs ( no coil bulbs ) to give my tortoises enough UVB. Unfortunately I have no UV meter yet but it is on my list to buy next. I have to explain that my tortoises are young and living indoors in a close enclosure. I screwed 4 wooden vievariums together to one big enclosure.
The basking spot of the tortoises which they like most is in a smaller, lower part of the enclosure. In think the bulbs must have been too low above the tortoises. It was not too hot under the basking spot and the tortoises spend much time under the new basking bulbs. After a week I recognized that one of my torts developed a weird thing on her eye.
First I thought that she`s got a bacterial infection but nothing has changed in the enclosure or with the torts, except of the new bulbs !
I put out the new bulbs immediately ! That was 2 weeks ago. The eye of my tortoise is looking much better now. I think it is healing but it needs time. I think that UVB and UVA rays have burned the eye of the tort.
I want to share this experience with you to prevent other tortoise owners making the same mistake like me. The new bulbs had been approximately 7 inch over the tortoises shell. Now I know that the distance was much to short just for new bulbs !
Btw: The tortoise was all the time alert and good eating. Behaves totally normal.
Pictures following:
This is the "burned" eye.





and two weeks later the eye looks much better but healing needs time. The swelling is much better and it is not so red like before


----------



## Randy Micheals (Feb 21, 2020)

Wow poor guy! Thanks for the info, looks like its healing nicely.


----------



## Toddrickfl1 (Feb 21, 2020)

Wow glad you caught it. I had a problem with a UVB bulb when I first got my tort too. Things like this is why I chose not to use artificial UVB. I'm lucky enough to live somewhere my torts can get natural sunlight most of the time.


----------



## TammyJ (Feb 21, 2020)

Thank you for letting us know what can happen with the wrong bulbs! There was another thread here where it was pointed out how very strong some of these lights can be....stronger than direct sunlight! Hope your little guy completely heals.


----------



## MichiganMan (Feb 21, 2020)

Was it an Arcadia D3 long tube bulb or a light bulb? Never heard of the tube bulbs causing problems but at 7in away it could cause harm. That's why a solarmeter 6.5r is a handy tool to have.


----------



## Tom (Feb 21, 2020)

Wow Bee! I'm surprised this happened to you. If these are the Arcadia 12% HO tubes, they need to be at least 20 inches (50cm) away, and they are still so strong that I only run them for about 3 hours mid day. At 20" I get a UVI reading of about 7 on my Solarmeter 6.5. Mid day summer sun here is only about 7. In mid winter I'm lucky to get a reading of 2 or 3 in full mid day sun. At 7 inches away, I bet it was putting out A UVI of 20 or more... Ouch.

Live and learn. Thanks for sharing this experience. I hope others learn from your example.


----------



## ZEROPILOT (Feb 21, 2020)

Sabine, is this from a tube UVB or one of those MVB bulbs that put out UVA, UVB and heat?
If so, I recently posted about that type bulb that one put out a UVB reading of 4 and the other put out 43!
I do hope that recovery will be swift. But those MVB bulbs are just not good.
Thanks for this post


----------



## Bee62 (Feb 21, 2020)

Randy Micheals said:


> Wow poor guy! Thanks for the info, looks like its healing nicely.


I hope so. Looks like it is healing well.


----------



## Bee62 (Feb 21, 2020)

Toddrickfl1 said:


> Wow glad you caught it. I had a problem with a UVB bulb when I first got my tort too. Things like this is why I chose not to use artificial UVB. I'm lucky enough to live somewhere my torts can get natural sunlight most of the time.


Lucky you are that your torts get enough natural sunlight. I will never make such a mistake with artificial UVB again !


----------



## Bee62 (Feb 21, 2020)

TammyJ said:


> Thank you for letting us know what can happen with the wrong bulbs! There was another thread here where it was pointed out how very strong some of these lights can be....stronger than direct sunlight! Hope your little guy completely heals.


I have read the other thread too and left a link there to my thread. Hopefully the eye will completetely recover.


----------



## Bee62 (Feb 21, 2020)

MichiganMan said:


> Was it an Arcadia D3 long tube bulb or a light bulb? Never heard of the tube bulbs causing problems but at 7in away it could cause harm. That's why a solarmeter 6.5r is a handy tool to have.


It was an Arcadia D3 bulb for UVB visible light and heat. This one:










Arcadia D3 UV Basking Lampe


Die D3 UV Basking Lamp von Arcadia ist ein typischer UV-Strahler. Diese Lampe sorgt sowohl für ausreichend UV-Strahlung sowie für helles,…




www.terraristikshop.net





The solarmeter is the next purchase.


----------



## ZEROPILOT (Feb 21, 2020)

Bee62 said:


> It was an Arcadia D3 bulb for UVB visible light and heat. This one:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's the one!
Those bulbs are EVIL!
Those are the ones I purchased for my chameleons.
Garbage.


----------



## Bee62 (Feb 21, 2020)

Tom said:


> Wow Bee! I'm surprised this happened to you. If these are the Arcadia 12% HO tubes, they need to be at least 20 inches (50cm) away, and they are still so strong that I only run them for about 3 hours mid day. At 20" I get a UVI reading of about 7 on my Solarmeter 6.5. Mid day summer sun here is only about 7. In mid winter I'm lucky to get a reading of 2 or 3 in full mid day sun. At 7 inches away, I bet it was putting out A UVI of 20 or more... Ouch.
> 
> Live and learn. Thanks for sharing this experience. I hope others learn from your example.


Sorry Tom that it happens to me. I am sorry for my tort too ! But I am glad that with the knowledge I`ve got from TFO I was able to notice the problem and react immediately. Learn and live is a good device. Hopefully others make not the same mistake like me.


----------



## Bee62 (Feb 21, 2020)

ZEROPILOT said:


> That's the one!
> Those bulbs are EVIL!
> Those are the ones I purchased for my chameleons.
> Garbage.


 I am using these bulbs for all my tortoises and never had any problems when the bulb is not too close to the tortoise. It was my fault to put these bulbs in the lower enclosure too close to the tortoises. But I read that the Arcadia long tubes are much better. I will change the bulbs and use the long tubes. What have the bulbs done to your chameleons ?


----------



## Bee62 (Feb 21, 2020)

ZEROPILOT said:


> Sabine, is this from a tube UVB or one of those MVB bulbs that put out UVA, UVB and heat?
> If so, I recently posted about that type bulb that one put out a UVB reading of 4 and the other put out 43!
> I do hope that recovery will be swift. But those MVB bulbs are just not good.
> Thanks for this post


Wow 43 ? That is much too much. I see I need quick a solarmeter.


----------



## ZEROPILOT (Feb 21, 2020)

Like I said, the UVB that they produce is not reliable. And the UVB can either be not enough...or WAY TOO MUCH.
They're downright dangerous as far as I'm concerned.
With my Chameleons, I found that they provided almost no UVB at 10". And when I raised the branches higher, for more UVB, I found that it was all directly under the bulb. Right where it was also too warm and almost no UVB to the sides.
So, no UVB if too far away....And pinpointed UVB closer to the bulb.
Ad to that that the bulbs don't perform the same way from one bulb to the next, the high cost and the short length of time that they work at all....
They're just not good for anything in my opinion.
I do not keep tortoises indoors like you do...As you know. So maybe your results are different? Or maybe the quality control of the bulbs sold in Europe are better?
I also can't say.
Maybe with a SOLARMETER (That I do now own. And highly recommend) they can be made to work for you. Guessing how high or low with these things is an expensive gamble. And I know how important your animals are to you.


----------



## ZEROPILOT (Feb 21, 2020)

Bee62 said:


> It was an Arcadia D3 bulb for UVB visible light and heat. This one:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I bought my SOLARMETER 6.5R from an American business called JOSHS FROGS.
But they're available several places at about $200 U.S.


----------



## willee638 (Feb 23, 2020)

Bee62 said:


> Hello, I want to share with you a bad experience with UVB & UVA light and tortoises eyes.
> 
> I bought 2 new Arcadia D3 bulbs ( no coil bulbs ) to give my tortoises enough UVB. Unfortunately I have no UV meter yet but it is on my list to buy next. I have to explain that my tortoises are young and living indoors in a close enclosure. I screwed 4 wooden vievariums together to one big enclosure.
> The basking spot of the tortoises which they like most is in a smaller, lower part of the enclosure. In think the bulbs must have been too low above the tortoises. It was not too hot under the basking spot and the tortoises spend much time under the new basking bulbs. After a week I recognized that one of my torts developed a weird thing on her eye.
> ...


Sorry to see this happen, I always questioned if I positioned the UVA+UVB bulb at a proper high away from my enclosure. I was only told when purchasing my red foot tortoise never to use any UV bulb with UVC emitted that can cause blindness, is it normal when a tortoise closes it's eyes when basking under artificial UV light sources or natural sunlight? If they close their eyes regularly in an enclosure setting can it be possible the light is too strong?


----------



## ZEROPILOT (Feb 23, 2020)

willee638 said:


> Sorry to see this happen, I always questioned if I positioned the UVA+UVB bulb at a proper high away from my enclosure. I was only told when purchasing my red foot tortoise never to use any UV bulb with UVC emitted that can cause blindness, is it normal when a tortoise closes it's eyes when basking under artificial UV light sources or natural sunlight? If they close their eyes regularly in an enclosure setting can it be possible the light is too strong?


Yes.
One of the big issues with those MVB is that they can be wildly different one to the next.
There's no way of telling your lighting exposure levels without a SOLARMETER with this type of light. But even then, they're still a bad choice.


----------



## willee638 (Feb 23, 2020)

ZEROPILOT said:


> Yes.
> One of the big issues with those MVB is that they can be wildly different one to the next.
> There's no way of telling your lighting exposure levels without a SOLARMETER with this type of light. But even then, they're still a bad choice.


Thanks that was definitely one of the first thing I've notice was my tortoise's behaviour after I replaced my previous Nomoypet UVA+UVB full spectrum bulb to another brand Lucky Herp Mercury Vapor self-ballasted bulb that was frosted I thought would be less harsh & the glass is thicker, the old bulb emitted more heat. I guess my room temperature would be 22 degrees Celsius & the enclosure with UV light is no more than 25 degrees which is I suspect too low & I probably should increase it to about 30 degrees celcius.


----------



## Moozillion (Feb 23, 2020)

Tom said:


> Wow Bee! I'm surprised this happened to you. If these are the Arcadia 12% HO tubes, they need to be at least 20 inches (50cm) away, and they are still so strong that I only run them for about 3 hours mid day. At 20" I get a UVI reading of about 7 on my Solarmeter 6.5. Mid day summer sun here is only about 7. In mid winter I'm lucky to get a reading of 2 or 3 in full mid day sun. At 7 inches away, I bet it was putting out A UVI of 20 or more... Ouch.
> 
> Live and learn. Thanks for sharing this experience. I hope others learn from your example.


Hey, Tom- Where did you get your Solarmeter?


----------



## Tom (Feb 23, 2020)

Moozillion said:


> Hey, Tom- Where did you get your Solarmeter?


Directly from Solarmeter. It was a few years ago.


----------



## willee638 (Feb 23, 2020)

Today I went & got a second lamp cover 8.5 inch by Nomoypet & a Philips Energy saver fluorescent lamp warm white was the best I can do "can't find incandescent" , the heat it gave off was low but it did change the ambient lighting & my red foot seems to like it more because it neutralized the harshness from just the UV mercury vapor lamp used alone. To decorate & as a future food source I placed a wide pad cactus plant in the enclosure, there won't be anymore plants after this to avoid over crowding the enclosure.


----------



## William Lee Kohler (Feb 23, 2020)

Hmmmm? Something missing here. If the eye was burned it would have turned white as a blind animals are wouldn't it? This is something else but I can't identify it. I think blaming the lighting on it may well be a big mistake.


----------



## ZEROPILOT (Feb 24, 2020)

Moozillion said:


> Hey, Tom- Where did you get your Solarmeter?


JOSHS FROGS has the 6.5r in stock for just under $200.
I got one last month


----------



## Bee62 (Feb 24, 2020)

ZEROPILOT said:


> Yes.
> One of the big issues with those MVB is that they can be wildly different one to the next.
> There's no way of telling your lighting exposure levels without a SOLARMETER with this type of light. But even then, they're still a bad choice.


I totally agree with you Ed.


----------



## Bee62 (Feb 24, 2020)

willee638 said:


> Sorry to see this happen, I always questioned if I positioned the UVA+UVB bulb at a proper high away from my enclosure. I was only told when purchasing my red foot tortoise never to use any UV bulb with UVC emitted that can cause blindness, is it normal when a tortoise closes it's eyes when basking under artificial UV light sources or natural sunlight? If they close their eyes regularly in an enclosure setting can it be possible the light is too strong?


Sometimes tortoises close their eyes while basking because they make a little nap but it is how @ZEROPILOT said: Without a solarmeter you will never know how strong the UVB output of a bulb or a tube is. I had to learn that lesson too.


----------



## Bee62 (Feb 24, 2020)

William Lee Kohler said:


> Hmmmm? Something missing here. If the eye was burned it would have turned white as a blind animals are wouldn't it? This is something else but I can't identify it. I think blaming the lighting on it may well be a big mistake.


Sorry for being a little bit incorrect: I think it was not the eye of the tort but the conjunctiva. The eye of my tort is luckily not blind and the swelling and red color of the conjunctiva is getting better every day. Nothing in the enclosure changed but the light. That`s why I think it was the light. When it is a bacterial infection it would not heal without an ointment or something else. I put out the new Arcadia bulbs and the eye of my tort was better after 4 days. I think it was the light and my mistake to put it too close to the torts.


----------



## Viola B (Feb 24, 2020)

Tom said:


> Wow Bee! I'm surprised this happened to you. If these are the Arcadia 12% HO tubes, they need to be at least 20 inches (50cm) away, and they are still so strong that I only run them for about 3 hours mid day. At 20" I get a UVI reading of about 7 on my Solarmeter 6.5. Mid day summer sun here is only about 7. In mid winter I'm lucky to get a reading of 2 or 3 in full mid day sun. At 7 inches away, I bet it was putting out A UVI of 20 or more... Ouch.
> 
> Live and learn. Thanks for sharing this experience. I hope others learn from your example.


I would say having a Solarmeter 6.5 to get a good reading very important. I have a Arcadia 12% HO5 tube, 46'', and it reads 4.3 at 18 inches. The tuba has different readings from one end to the other. One end 3.5, middle 4.3, other end 2.5.


----------



## Canadian Mojo (Feb 24, 2020)

For the morbidly curious, I'm a welder so I can tell you all about burning your eyeballs with UV.

You literally sunburn your eyes with the UV and a few hours after doing it your corneas start to peel. This causes them to be very sensitive to the point of the inside of your eyelids are rough and irritating. It feels very much like somebody has thrown sand in your face and it won't wash out. For added fun your eyes get puffy, bloodshot, water excessively, and bright lights hurt. Fortunately your corneas toughen up it goes away after about a day and the damage isn't permanent (unless you do it a lot). Until they do toughen up, Visine and darkness are your friend.

It hurts enough even the dumbest of us learn the lesson first time.


----------



## Blackdog1714 (Feb 24, 2020)

Canadian Mojo said:


> For the morbidly curious, I'm a welder so I can tell you all about burning your eyeballs with UV.
> 
> You literally sunburn your eyes with the UV and a few hours after doing it your corneas start to peel. This causes them to be very sensitive to the point of the inside of your eyelids are rough and irritating. It feels very much like somebody has thrown sand in your face and it won't wash out. For added fun your eyes get puffy, bloodshot, water excessively, and bright lights hurt. Fortunately your corneas toughen up it goes away after about a day and the damage isn't permanent (unless you do it a lot). Until they do toughen up, Visine and darkness are your friend.
> 
> It hurts enough even the dumbest of us learn the lesson first time.


THat is so true. As a hobbyist welder I have my share of sunburns and even have a G-SHock with a scarred crystal to prove why safety equipment is very important!


----------



## Beasty_Artemis (Feb 25, 2020)

Oh no! What about this one?!
Good thing I never throw the packaging away for reference. I wrote that date when I bought it....I probably need to replace it anyway by now.


----------



## Blackdog1714 (Feb 25, 2020)

Beasty_Artemis said:


> View attachment 286891
> View attachment 286892
> 
> Oh no! What about this one?!
> Good thing I never throw the packaging away for reference. I wrote that date when I bought it....I probably need to replace it anyway by now.


With out checking it with a Solarmeter 6.5r


----------



## Maggie3fan (Feb 25, 2020)

William Lee Kohler said:


> Hmmmm? Something missing here. If the eye was burned it would have turned white as a blind animals are wouldn't it? This is something else but I can't identify it. I think blaming the lighting on it may well be a big mistake.


I'm not a Vet but that looks to me like a slightly irritated
nictitating membrane not a burn on the eyeball.


----------



## Blackdog1714 (Feb 25, 2020)

With out checking it with a Solarmeter 6.5r you can't be sure if it is still good. I thought I saw 2017 on the box


----------



## Moozillion (Feb 25, 2020)

ZEROPILOT said:


> JOSHS FROGS has the 6.5r in stock for just under $200.
> I got one last month


COOL!!!
THANKS, Ed! ?


----------



## Moozillion (Feb 25, 2020)

ZEROPILOT said:


> JOSHS FROGS has the 6.5r in stock for just under $200.
> I got one last month


Ed: did you get the LAMP meter or the INDEX meter?


----------



## ZEROPILOT (Feb 25, 2020)

Moozillion said:


> Ed: did you get the LAMP meter or the INDEX meter?


The
SOLARMETER 6.5R
I think it's a UVB index reader


----------



## Moozillion (Feb 25, 2020)

ZEROPILOT said:


> The
> SOLARMETER 6.5R
> I think it's a UVB index reader


Ok- thanks!


----------



## willee638 (Feb 26, 2020)

I took heed of a forum member's suggestion & use a second lamp with an ordinary incandescent bulb of 40 watts only for generating heat & to my surprise my red foot tortoise was still able to feed without the use of a UV light, although I still switches on the 80 watt UV bulb at least once daily. But now the weather is gradually reaching the mid twenties approaching March, I will try not to over heat the enclosure as I never usually have a lid on it.


----------

