# Wireless Heater?



## yillt (Dec 30, 2015)

Hello, I have asked a lot about outdoor living and this SHOULD BE the last question. (Sorry if it's not.)
I am thinking of getting a cold frame or a Cosy Tortoises All-Season Tortoise Houses. Either way, I live in England and my five year old Marginated will certainly need additional heat in the night. I do not have any source of power in my garden and was wondering if there was a heater that was wireless. I was looking at ceramic heaters by exo terra but they need a lamp and therefore wires. Any ideas will be greatly appreciated as I really need this to work. As much as I love having his company, Billy is just getting to big to live in my room and outdoor living seems the perfect solution. Currently he has a very large guinea pig cage indoors which even seems small for him.


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## Tom (Dec 30, 2015)

I know of no wireless heating solution that will work for your application. You need consistent thermostat regulated heat for most of every year. Hot water bottles and hand warmers just won't be long lasting or controllable. You will need to run power out there one way or another.

And a guinea pig cage is too small for anything but a small hatchling tortoise. If your tortoise is big enough to live outside, then its certainly too big for an indoor guinea pig cage.


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## yillt (Dec 30, 2015)

Tom said:


> I know of no wireless heating solution that will work for your application. You need consistent thermostat regulated heat for most of every year. Hot water bottles and hand warmers just won't be long lasting or controllable. You will need to run power out there one way or another.
> 
> And a guinea pig cage is too small for anything but a small hatchling tortoise. If your tortoise is big enough to live outside, then its certainly too big for an indoor guinea pig cage.


Would it be preferable if I had a cage/table/enclosure inside for the nights and I would let hi, sit under the heat lamp inside with uvb as well for a couple of hours then I put hi, in his outdoor cage all day where he has access to an insulated hut if it's a chilly day, thank you so much for your help in advance and already.


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## Tom (Dec 30, 2015)

yillt said:


> Would it be preferable if I had a cage/table/enclosure inside for the nights and I would let hi, sit under the heat lamp inside with uvb as well for a couple of hours then I put hi, in his outdoor cage all day where he has access to an insulated hut if it's a chilly day, thank you so much for your help in advance and already.



My preference for tortoise keeping in my area for smaller species is to have both an indoor and outdoor enclosure. I use the outdoor enclosure when the weather is nice, and I have a totally suitable large indoor enclosure for nights and whenever the weather is not so nice.


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## yillt (Dec 30, 2015)

Tom said:


> My preference for tortoise keeping in my area for smaller species is to have both an indoor and outdoor enclosure. I use the outdoor enclosure when the weather is nice, and I have a totally suitable large indoor enclosure for nights and whenever the weather is not so nice.


Thank you very much. If a guinea pig cage isn't big enough, what would you suggest? I was going to try a rubber maid (I think it's called that)


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## Tom (Dec 30, 2015)

I like a 4x8' table for Testudo species. A 4x8' closed chamber makes it even easier to maintain temps and humidity with a lot less electricity. A closed chamber does not have to be kept humid like what is needed for baby sulcatas. It can be kept with more moderate humidity too. Like this:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/closed-chambers.32333/


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## WithLisa (Dec 30, 2015)

England isn't that cold, is it? If you keep Billy outside from March till November and let him brumate in winter I don't think you'll need additional heat at night. It would be a few degrees warmer inside the cold frame than outside and in the wild they also have chilly nights in spring and autumn. 
It's more important that they can warm up during day (this might be a problem depending on your climate).


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## yillt (Dec 30, 2015)

WithLisa said:


> England isn't that cold, is it? If you keep Billy outside from March till November and let him brumate in winter I don't think you'll need additional heat at night. It would be a few degrees warmer inside the cold frame than outside and in the wild they also have chilly nights in spring and autumn.
> It's more important that they can warm up during day (this might be a problem depending on your climate).


So would you suggest keeping him outdoors and just putting him under the heat lamp indoors for a while then putting him back into his outdoor pen (with an insulated cold frame) ?


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## WithLisa (Dec 30, 2015)

I don't know, maybe it would be warm enough with the cold frame, you have to give it a try. It all depends on your climate (temperatures and how much sunshine you have).
But I wouldn't worry about the night temperatures as long as it's not freezing.


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## yillt (Dec 30, 2015)

would this be ok


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## SarahChelonoidis (Dec 30, 2015)

yillt said:


> View attachment 160478
> would this be ok



Do you mean for indoor use or outdoor? It is not suitable for outdoor use.


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## yillt (Dec 30, 2015)

or this


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## yillt (Dec 30, 2015)

SarahChelonoidis said:


> Do you mean for indoor use or outdoor? It is not suitable for outdoor use.


Outdoor in a cold frame. My parents won't allow electricity into the garden and I am struggling to find any heaters. Any ideas will be greatly appreciated.


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## WithLisa (Dec 30, 2015)

Those heaters also need an electric socket.

If I were in your spot I would just get the cold frame, set it up and give it a try. In the worst case you have to keep Billy inside a few weeks in spring (and also if the weather is very bad for more than just a few days in summer). Or you can let him brumate longer (from beginning of November till end of March, 5 months should be no problem for him).


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## yillt (Dec 30, 2015)

So I have a sudden, unexpected surprise. I have an electric socket!! I just went out in the pouring dark English Winter (what we do for our tortoises) and I climbed behind our three bushes searching for sockets. And behind the second was a little box and behind the flap was A SOCKET!!!!! So now I have a much wider range of heaters available. Is a ceramic heater from expo terra ok? Thank you everyone for your help.


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## DutchieAmanda (Dec 30, 2015)

I don't know where you are located in the UK, and I don't know the exact temps needed for your tort, but the UK weather is often similar to the Dutch weather and I don't think I would keep any tort outside here without heating... 
Maybe you can share what are normal / possible temps in your location?

EDIT: just read your post about the socket, great! I would use a CHE with a thermostat. Good luck!


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## Gillian M (Dec 30, 2015)

I agree with DutchieAmanda. I too would never keep a tort outside in countries like Germany, Holland, the UK, and for that matter Jordan, which is where I live. It's far too cold for torts. These cute little animals need *HEAT*.


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## WithLisa (Dec 30, 2015)

Gillian Moore said:


> I agree with DutchieAmanda. I too would never keep a tort outside in countries like Germany, Holland, the UK, and for that matter Jordan, which is where I live. It's far too cold for torts. These cute little animals need *HEAT*.


That's not true. I've never been to Holland or Jordan, but the warmer parts of Germany and UK are warm enough when the torts have a good cold frame. I know many tortoise keepers in Germany that keep their tortoises outside year round without additional heat. 
I've also never used additional heat, although I have a heat lamp and a heating cable. It wasn't necessary, the cold frame is almost always warmer than their natural habitats.

I even know people in Germany without a cold frame and their tortoises still seem to be healthy, but that is too risky in my opinion.


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## yillt (Dec 31, 2015)

WithLisa said:


> That's not true. I've never been to Holland or Jordan, but the warmer parts of Germany and UK are warm enough when the torts have a good cold frame. I know many tortoise keepers in Germany that keep their tortoises outside year round without additional heat.
> I've also never used additional heat, although I have a heat lamp and a heating cable. It wasn't necessary, the cold frame is almost always warmer than their natural habitats.
> 
> I even know people in Germany without a cold frame and their tortoises still seem to be healthy, but that is too risky in my opinion.


I live in London, which is considered the warmest part of England I think. Because of all the cars and lights and pollution. I think I may follow your advice and set up a nice cold frame with additional heating and if he ever needs it, an indoor setup. Ha you everyone for your help.


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## yillt (Dec 31, 2015)

Tom said:


> I like a 4x8' table for Testudo species. A 4x8' closed chamber makes it even easier to maintain temps and humidity with a lot less electricity. A closed chamber does not have to be kept humid like what is needed for baby sulcatas. It can be kept with more moderate humidity too. Like this:
> http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/closed-chambers.32333/





Does this look good? It's like a cold frame/ kennel all in o e and I can still attach a heat lamp in the kennel part


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## Tom (Dec 31, 2015)

I'm not the best person to advise on this. I don't know your climate, and I've not ever used cold frames or outdoor housing like that.

Perhaps some of our European members will chime in on the particular type of housing?


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## yillt (Dec 31, 2015)

DutchieAmanda said:


> I don't know where you are located in the UK, and I don't know the exact temps needed for your tort, but the UK weather is often similar to the Dutch weather and I don't think I would keep any tort outside here without heating...
> Maybe you can share what are normal / possible temps in your location?
> 
> EDIT: just read your post about the socket, great! I would use a CHE with a thermostat. Good luck!


Hello. Would this be ok?


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## yillt (Dec 31, 2015)

WithLisa said:


> I don't know, maybe it would be warm enough with the cold frame, you have to give it a try. It all depends on your climate (temperatures and how much sunshine you have).
> But I wouldn't worry about the night temperatures as long as it's not freezing.


Would this be ok?


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## WithLisa (Dec 31, 2015)

Hmm... I've never used something like this, so I don't really know.

The kennel is probably well insulated and easier to heat, but dark - even with a heat lamp it will be dark compared to the cold frame. Tortoises want to have bright light, so I doubt the kennel would be a comfortable place to spend the day.
On sunny days, even if it's cold outside, the cold frame warms up very fast and the heat lamp will switch off. Then it's completely dark and the tortoise can only use the cold frame part, which is rather small if they have to spend the whole day in there, especially for an adult marginated.

Another thing I like about normal cold frames is that they have no bottom, so my tortoises have naturally moist substrate and can dig in as deep as they want. The soil also stores heat and keeps the tortoises warm in chilly nights.

But the most important reason why I wouldn't buy this tortoise house: it's really expensive! 
You could get a much bigger cold frame and an insulated dog kennel for much less money.


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## yillt (Dec 31, 2015)

WithLisa said:


> Hmm... I've never used something like this, so I don't really know.
> 
> The kennel is probably well insulated and easier to heat, but dark - even with a heat lamp it will be dark compared to the cold frame. Tortoises want to have bright light, so I doubt the kennel would be a comfortable place to spend the day.
> On sunny days, even if it's cold outside, the cold frame warms up very fast and the heat lamp will switch off. Then it's completely dark and the tortoise can only use the cold frame part, which is rather small if they have to spend the whole day in there, especially for an adult marginated.
> ...


Thank you. I was quite worried, because I pay for my animals myself and that would use ALL of my money leaving barely any for vet bills. My parents have offered to help a bit though. Phew. The problem is, I don't have much soil, it's mostly paved. But I'm going to ask my mum if I can use one flower bed to put the cold frame on and attach a run to that.


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## yillt (Dec 31, 2015)

yillt said:


> Thank you. I was quite worried, because I pay for my animals myself and that would use ALL of my money leaving barely any for vet bills. My parents have offered to help a bit though. Phew. The problem is, I don't have much soil, it's mostly paved. But I'm going to ask my mum if I can use one flower bed to put the cold frame on and attach a run to that.


If I have a cold frame do I still need a kennel! If so, could I use an old rabbit hutch as I have one available.


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## WithLisa (Dec 31, 2015)

Maybe it has some advantages (the designer of this tortoise house obviously thinks so), but I've never used something like a kennel, so I've no idea what you would need it for.
I know some people use wooden houses with a heating cable for additional heat at night, but those are usually small, just big enough for the tortoise to sleep in (can be put into a corner of the cold frame).


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## Anyfoot (Dec 31, 2015)

WithLisa said:


> England isn't that cold, is it? If you keep Billy outside from March till November and let him brumate in winter I don't think you'll need additional heat at night. It would be a few degrees warmer inside the cold frame than outside and in the wild they also have chilly nights in spring and autumn.
> It's more important that they can warm up during day (this might be a problem depending on your climate).


Lisa, our winters are up and down drastically. It depends on where the winds come in from on this small island.
Wind from the east is no use to man nor beast. 

This year is unusually warm, this December is warmest its been for 70yrs. 12°c average.
Last year we had it to -18°c for quite a few nights. 
Hope this helps in helping yillt.


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## WithLisa (Jan 1, 2016)

Anyfoot said:


> Last year we had it to -18°c for quite a few nights.


In Germany/Austria we also have winter nights like that, almost every year. I have to admit it makes me very nervous, I even get up at night to check if I should switch on the heating cable for the tortoises, but so far... no heating required.

The winter temperature doesn't really matter since, as far as I know, Billy is brumating in a fridge. But if it's very chilly in summertime too (for more than just a few days) I would strongly recommend to either take him inside or put a heat lamp/CHE in the cold frame - which should be no problem for yilt since there is a power socket outside.


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## Lyn W (Jan 1, 2016)

I don't know what temps are recommended for your tort but I think that our UK temps are too cold - even in the summer not to provide heat. A cold frame is not insulated and while it will protect plants from frost it will lose any heat quickly and you will need a decent insulated base as the ground will get very cold. 
Even though you have found an outdoor socket, another thing you have to consider is that any leads running from it to your tort house will need to be weather proofed so that damp can not get into the appliance and it will need to be safe from things like mice etc that may nibble the lead.
Even outdoor extension leads are not designed for permanent outdoor use but I'm sure there are members here who run outside cables and can advise you on the best way to sort out that out safely.


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## DutchieAmanda (Jan 1, 2016)

Sorry for the slow response, was celebrating New Year's eve  
I would be a little hesitant to use a glass enclosure for my tort. We have a glass house for our plants and in the winter it gets really cold (glass doesn't really insulate well) and in the summer it gets > 40C easily in the sun. 

What about an insulated night house (like the ones Tom builds) with an outdoor area? Does your tort brumate?


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## yillt (Jan 2, 2016)

Hello everyone. So i have planned the enclosure and will start tomorrow on digging up a flower bed to transform. I have bought three thing so far (attaChed) and will photos tomorrow and when Billy emerges from hibernation. Thanks everyone for the help


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