# Gentamicin for runny nose?



## Caitlion (Aug 23, 2014)

I took my tortoise to the vet yesterday for a chronic runny, sometimes bubbly nose and he prescribed gentamicin sulfate. As they did not have the drops on hand, the vet (who I found on the CTTC website) wrote me a prescription to be filled at a normal pharmacy. The instructions say they are to be administered twice a day ( I spaced it 12 hours), one drop to each nostril and one to the mouth if I can. The box says it is 3mg, and she weighs 7.4 pounds. The only reason I'm worried is because I read online that this antibiotic can have nephrotoxic effects. 

The vet gave her a physical exam, but didn't culture her nose or run any tests. He said it was good that the nostrils appeared open and the discharge was clear. He said her mouth was slightly inflamed, but the antibiotic in the mouth would help. Other than the runny nose, she seems the same. Her appetite has been great and she's as mobile as ever. 

I would definitely appreciate a little feedback, though. Does the diagnosis and the medication seem right?


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## jonckt (Aug 24, 2014)

I just discover my rad blowing bubble on the right nostril, starting yesterday and today. Did u dripped the gentamicin into the runny nose ?


Jc


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## Abdulla6169 (Aug 24, 2014)

Caitlion said:


> I took my tortoise to the vet yesterday for a chronic runny, sometimes bubbly nose and he prescribed gentamicin sulfate. As they did not have the drops on hand, the vet (who I found on the CTTC website) wrote me a prescription to be filled at a normal pharmacy. The instructions say they are to be administered twice a day ( I spaced it 12 hours), one drop to each nostril and one to the mouth if I can. The box says it is 3mg, and she weighs 7.4 pounds. The only reason I'm worried is because I read online that this antibiotic can have nephrotoxic effects.
> 
> The vet gave her a physical exam, but didn't culture her nose or run any tests. He said it was good that the nostrils appeared open and the discharge was clear. He said her mouth was slightly inflamed, but the antibiotic in the mouth would help. Other than the runny nose, she seems the same. Her appetite has been great and she's as mobile as ever.
> 
> I would definitely appreciate a little feedback, though. Does the diagnosis and the medication seem right?


Why is his nose running? Stress or a URI?


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## Yvonne G (Aug 24, 2014)

You must be the one who decides to follow your vet's advice or not, it was your money that was spent, after all. Personally, when I see bubbles or a clear discharge from the tortoise's nose, I don't do anything. Most of the time when a tortoise has a bubbly nose it's not a respiratory infection, it's stress, and it usually goes away on its own. 

Try to figure out if something stressful has happened to the tortoise in the past weeks... dogs or other animals worrying your tortoise, overcrowding, competition/aggression from other tortoises, or children allowed to "play" with the animal is stressful. Stress causes a number of biochemical changes in the animal, among them the production of steroids which in turn suppresses the immune system - such animals are more likely to succumb to an infection than a healthy non-stressed tortoise exposed to the same infectious agent. Stress is almost impossible to detect until it is too late, and can have serious long term effects on the general health and resistance of the animal. (the above statement about stress was copy/pasted from the Tortoise Trust web site)


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## jonckt (Aug 24, 2014)

Yvonne G said:


> You must be the one who decides to follow your vet's advice or not, it was your money that was spent, after all. Personally, when I see bubbles or a clear discharge from the tortoise's nose, I don't do anything. Most of the time when a tortoise has a bubbly nose it's not a respiratory infection, it's stress, and it usually goes away on its own.



Yvonne,

I think I might be the source of stressing my tortoise, cause I play with him a lot when I have time, I take him out for soaking, take him out to the lawn for sun walk daily ..... I even keep him next to me listening to music and sometimes watching tv......

I think I have to stop all that by now



> Try to figure out if something stressful has happened to the tortoise in the past weeks... dogs or other animals worrying your tortoise, overcrowding, competition/aggression from other tortoises, or children allowed to "play" with the animal is stressful. Stress causes a number of biochemical changes in the animal, among them the production of steroids which in turn suppresses the immune system - such animals are more likely to succumb to an infection than a healthy non-stressed tortoise exposed to the same infectious agent. Stress is almost impossible to detect until it is too late, and can have serious long term effects on the general health and resistance of the animal. (the above statement about stress was copy/pasted from the Tortoise Trust web site)





Jc


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## Dizisdalife (Aug 24, 2014)

I wouldn't stop all of that. The soaking and outdoor sun are beneficial to the tortoise's health. My tortoise and I have different taste in music and TV, so we don't do any of that together. We do sit in the sun together and dig in the yard. Sometimes we play hide and seek in the bushes along the perimeter of his pen. Handling the tortoise for the necessary activities is okay.


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## Yvonne G (Aug 24, 2014)

And the more you handle the tortoise, the more it gets used to being handled. Just don't 'play' with it.


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## Caitlion (Aug 24, 2014)

I don't think it is stress. Nothing has really changed. My niece and nephew play around her in the backyard sometimes, but they always have. I don't allow them to play WITH her, and the only time they interact with her is monitored -- usually petting her gently on the head and shell, or feeding her dandelions. I have two small dogs, but they too have been around her a long while before this started, and they ignore her. The vet did mention it could be weather changes, there was a period where it was really humid. He didn't seem at all worried about it so I guess I shouldn't be, but I'm just a natural worrier. Everything I read about runny noses in torts online made it sound like doom and gloom.

I hope giving her the medication doesn't stress her out and make things worse!


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## Abdulla6169 (Aug 24, 2014)

Caitlion said:


> I don't think it is stress. Nothing has really changed. My niece and nephew play around her in the backyard sometimes, but they always have. I don't allow them to play WITH her, and the only time they interact with her is monitored -- usually petting her gently on the head and shell, or feeding her dandelions. I have two small dogs, but they too have been around her a long while before this started, and they ignore her. The vet did mention it could be weather changes, there was a period where it was really humid. He didn't seem at all worried about it so I guess I shouldn't be, but I'm just a natural worrier. Everything I read about runny noses in torts online made it sound like doom and gloom.
> 
> I hope giving her the medication doesn't stress her out and make things worse!


If I were you I'd just make the enclosure temperatures higher, the increased humidity might cause an URI if the temperatures are too low. I don't think that's the case  good luck!


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## Abdulla6169 (Aug 24, 2014)

Guys, in numbered days my stuDYING will start... I won't be using the forum (as much, it's pretty addictive). I could use it on my iPad there. I also have evenings for foruming  But you get the point, if I disappear for a while don't panic


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## jonckt (Aug 26, 2014)

My rads keeps sneezing, and making the zit sound , kinda worry


Jc


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## ascott (Aug 26, 2014)

As Yvonne said, it is up to you as the care giver what you will do.....I do get annoyed when a vet "diagnoses" RI by looking at the tort and seeing some clear fluid....unless proper testing was done then there is no way the vet can know if there is a medical issue causing the clear fluid...especially since you say the tort is business as usual...eating and mobility and such....

The weather can absolutely affect a tortoise, sudden dramatic heat spikes or temp drops can create stress....what is the outdoor housing like for the tort....does the tort remain outdoors as its space or indoors? When outdoors does the tort have access to places to remain cool as well as in the evening does the tort have access to a place that is warm enough as well? 

I personally would not administer medications unless you have an actual diagnosis....antibiotics are very hard on the kidneys for a tortoise....please do make sure that if you elect to medicate the tort do at least one to two daily soaks of about 30 minutes each in tepid/slightly warm water.....this will help the tort keep hydrated while body is stressed by the antibiotic treatments....


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## jonckt (Aug 26, 2014)

True, it's been raining for the pass few days and temperature dropped a few degree c in Malaysia . I do raise it indoor.... Have use medicine yet. 

Will soak daily and monitor closely.




Jc


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## Caitlion (Oct 2, 2014)

Thank you so much for the replies everyone, I know my own reply is seriously late -- things have been hectic here!

Things are more or less the same with my girl. Her nose is still running, but it is still a clear discharge. Her appetite has unchanged, and she's as mobile as ever. I do hear her breathing a little more loudly now, but I'm not sure this is new, or if I'm just more aware because I'm paranoid about her health. 

I resurrected this thread because I have one more question: As it is getting colder, would it be unwise to hibernate her as usual in this condition? Even if it is just stress related?


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## Tom (Oct 2, 2014)

What species are we talking about? Where and how are you housing it? What are you doing for heat sources and shelter?

RIs are _caused _by something. No sense treating symptoms without discovering and eliminating the _cause_ of the issue. Most often RIs are caused by chilly damp night temps. Where is your tortoise at night?


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## ascott (Oct 4, 2014)

Caitlion said:


> Thank you so much for the replies everyone, I know my own reply is seriously late -- things have been hectic here!
> 
> Things are more or less the same with my girl. Her nose is still running, but it is still a clear discharge. Her appetite has unchanged, and she's as mobile as ever. I do hear her breathing a little more loudly now, but I'm not sure this is new, or if I'm just more aware because I'm paranoid about her health.
> 
> I resurrected this thread because I have one more question: As it is getting colder, would it be unwise to hibernate her as usual in this condition? Even if it is just stress related?



How long have you been caring for the tortoise?


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## Caitlion (Oct 4, 2014)

Shes's a desert tortoise. She stays out all day during the day. The back yard is pretty big, so she gets lots of exercise, and there's lots of shady places to hide away. At night, I've been putting her in a dog igloo in the garage. I've put that on top of some sheets in case the ground gets cold, and on really chilly nights I partially cover it with blankets.

I've had her for years, and our routine has been pretty much the same as always.


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## ascott (Oct 5, 2014)

Caitlion said:


> Shes's a desert tortoise. She stays out all day during the day. The back yard is pretty big, so she gets lots of exercise, and there's lots of shady places to hide away. At night, I've been putting her in a dog igloo in the garage. I've put that on top of some sheets in case the ground gets cold, and on really chilly nights I partially cover it with blankets.
> 
> I've had her for years, and our routine has been pretty much the same as always.



When/how long ago did the tort begin to have runny nose?


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## N2TORTS (Oct 5, 2014)

Gentamicin Sulfate for an RI?.... Gentamicin Sulfate is usually used in the topical treatment of ocular bacterial infections such as Conjunctivitis *aka: Eye Meds and found in a ophthalmic solution form.
Until sulfa drugs came on the scene in the 1940s, our efforts to combat bacterial infection were largely ineffective. As different antibiotics were developed, different types of bacteria were conquered, yet one bacterial species remained seemingly invincible: _Pseudomonas aeruginosa_. Eventually antibiotics (the aminoglycoside class) were developed that could kill _Pseudomonas_ but they were available only as injectable products and they had potential to cause significant kidney damage if used too long. 
A major breakthrough was the development of the fluoroquinolone class of antibiotics (including enrofloxacin (Baytril), its counterpart for human use ciprofloxacin, and several others)......Fluoroquinolones act by deactivating bacterial enzymes necessary for the transcription of DNA. DNA is tightly coiled in order to fit inside a cell. Segments to be used must be uncoiled by an enzyme called DNA gyrase. The fluoroquinolone antibiotic deactivates DNA gyrase making the reading of DNA impossible and the infected cell dies.
Antibiotics kill bacteria that are responsible for the infection although some bacteria survive treatment and go on to create more resistant strains of bacteria. Antibiotics also kill many of the naturally occurring 'good' bacteria that live in the gut. Antibiotics should only be considered as a last resort......but may be deemed necessary.
As others have mentioned look for stressors and if not too far along with infection, bumping temps and frequent hydration the animal can beat it on it's own. However if left alone simple RI' infections can escalate to pneumonia and quick death. If housed with other torts I would quarantine immediately , and always wash your hands after handling your tort. Now is a good time to sterilize any food and water bowls as well.


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## Caitlion (Oct 10, 2014)

Thank you for the advice. I've stopped the antibiotics a while ago, and I'm making sure she stays warm and hydrated.

So, given the circumstances do you think it will be too risky to hibernate her?


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## Caitlion (Oct 10, 2014)

ascott said:


> When/how long ago did the tort begin to have runny nose?


Oops, I must have missed this post. It was early August, I believe, when I first noticed.


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## ascott (Oct 10, 2014)

Caitlion said:


> Thank you for the advice. I've stopped the antibiotics a while ago, and I'm making sure she stays warm and hydrated.
> 
> So, given the circumstances do you think it will be too risky to hibernate her?



Well, that is a tricky question...however, with the fact that you have been administering medications to the tortoise I would be hesitant in allowing the tort to do a full brumation.....NOW, with that being said--there are options, and they would be based on the tortoise entirely (again, this is what I would consider) if the tortoise does not slow down at all for winter---then overwintering the tort will be relatively easy and the desired method this winter, however, if the tort is like most--it will have a strong drive to rest for the season--so if this is the case, you can perhaps offer a short period of brumation (to allow the tort some satisfaction in quenching its drive/desire) which will allow the tort some rest as well as to help avoid any additional stress....or you can begin the brumation process (again, this is solely if the tort insists, and some absolutely do) and closely monitor the tort throughout the process....

Offer regular soaks for hydration and good luck to you and the tort with whichever you decide.


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