# I just can't decide: leopard or redfoot?



## FLGirl41 (Apr 9, 2013)

Hi everyone, I've posted a bit here and there on the forum.  I am having such a hard time making a final decision on which tort species to go with! Can you all give me your insight? I live in northcentral Florida, and I have a house with a large (50x150 foot) fenced yard. I love larger species, and would really love a sulcata but it's just not practical for me at this time to get one due to their size and destructive abilities. I keep fluctuating between leopards and redfoots (also I think Greeks and Hermanns are nice, but I'm looking for something larger). So really it comes down to leopard vs. redfoot. 

Although both are beautiful, I do love the look of leopards especially. I'd also prefer something that will be personable. We get a bit cold in the winter, and I have some indoor space to temporarily house one or two torts but will also happily construct a heated shed in the yard for their use. 

So I suppose my dilemma is... Two redfoots (which would probably slowly increase to a colony ) or two leopards?

Edit: Or one leopard?


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## Redstrike (Apr 9, 2013)

Florida is a great climate for redfoots!


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## dcwolfe (Apr 9, 2013)

I love leopards and it never gets old to watch them grow because u never know what color might come in each month.


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## theelectraco (Apr 9, 2013)

I have a Redfoot and love them!


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## FLGirl41 (Apr 10, 2013)

Haha, it's clear there is strong support on both sides! Is there a huge difference in personalities between the two species? I've heard that, in general, leopards are a bit more shy than redfoots. I'm just hoping for a species that is interactive, i.e. will walk over to me for food or a pat.


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## Redstrike (Apr 10, 2013)

I can't speak for leopards but most redfoots are quite curious and interactive. They all have their own personalities though and if you get a hatchling of either species it will be relatively shy for the first year or two. Bite-sized torts & turtles like to hide.


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## kjr153 (Apr 10, 2013)

Sulcata


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## LeopardTortLover (Apr 10, 2013)

One leopard! Two may cause problems. But if you can separate them, two leopards! 




dcwolfe said:


> I love leopards and it never gets old to watch them grow because u never know what color might come in each month.



Massively agree! I think mine is in a white phase at the moment. Also she is very interactive and not too shy. Will walk all over me if she had to.


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## immayo (Apr 10, 2013)

It's really all personal preference, I mean redfoots have amazing skin coloring and leopards have awesome shells! If you want to have a few in the future redfoots are known for doing very well in groups. I personally am bias towards redfoots since I have had my little guy for a year and am about to add another. Do you know if you will be looking for a hatchling or adult?


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## mainey34 (Apr 10, 2013)

Redfoot, they are the best. You will love their personalities.


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## theelectraco (Apr 10, 2013)

If you're looking to have two, Redfoots would be the better choice.


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## danosaurous (Apr 10, 2013)

I have three redfoots and love them SO much! I highly recommend them, so personable


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## Logan J (Apr 11, 2013)

Love my red her name is LJ


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## Tom (Apr 11, 2013)

A redfoot will do better in your climate, and generally speaking they are more outgoing than a typical leopard.

Some people in humid climates have trouble keeping leopards healthy as outdoor housed adults.


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## abclements (Apr 11, 2013)

I too am for the red foots! They're awesome and really pretty! A colony of rf would be awesome in your yard!


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## gargonshepard (Apr 11, 2013)

I was debating this very thing after deciding a Sulcata was not practicle. I went with a Red Foot and I have not been one bit dissapointed.[/i]


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## LeopardTortLover (Apr 11, 2013)

Now I want a redfoot lol. "Not enough room Laura, not enough room!"


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## FLGirl41 (Apr 11, 2013)

Thank you so much to everyone who has given their help and opinions.  The majority of you seem to recommend the redfoot. I think my problem is, I want one or two of everything and therefore can't make up my mind! Today especially I've been leaning heavily towards Golden Greeks. (See, I am all over the place.) I do love the larger species but there's something about the Greeks that appeal to me, perhaps that they stay more manageable in size. A 9-10" adult female seems just big enough, but not hard to house indoors during colder months. Oh goodness, I gotta keep thinking about this one.


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## StudentoftheReptile (Apr 11, 2013)

If it helps, I also vote redfoots for the same reasons: do well in groups and they fare great in the Sunshine State.


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## bigred (Apr 11, 2013)

The area you live in is ideal for redfoots and they are very personable and do well in groups as already mentioned. I have 2.2 group of adults and never had a problem with them. They have never been sick in any way and they are very hardy when taken care of. I have never owned a leopard so I cant say to much on them


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## FLGirl41 (Apr 13, 2013)

Hi everyone, I really appreciate your thoughts. I was able to spend time with a fully grown yellowfoot and realized, I want something even larger. I just love the big guys and really want a single, very large pet tort. Sulcatas are out due to their burrowing and bulldozing abilities  but I believe the pardalis pardalis leopard is the tort for me. I won't rule out a colony of redfoots in the future, but for now I will actively be searching for a South African leopard. I consulted with a colleague of mine who is a zoo/wildlife veterinarian and has a colony of leopards himself. He's never seen health issues in leopards kept here, despite the humidity in the area. South of here, the climate gets much more "tropical". I lived in Tampa for a while and it was noticeably different than it is here. So based on his experiences, and those of other friends who have leopards here, I feel ok with housing one outdoors despite the humidity.


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## Tom (Apr 13, 2013)

The South Africans seem to handle humidity and temperature extremes better than the normal leopards. I think this choice will make you happy down the road. They tend to all hatch in late August or early September. Good luck finding one.


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## LeopardTortLover (Apr 13, 2013)

Yay for leopards! Before you get one its a good idea to research them thoroughly as a lot of information online is outdated, a lot say they need to be kept dry but this causes pyramiding. There are some links to Tom's Leopard and Sulcata care in my signature. Baby leopards need at least 70% humidity and 80% is fine to stop pyramiding. They also need humid hides but you can learn all this in time  good luck!


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## Tom (Apr 13, 2013)

LeopardTortLover said:


> Yay for leopards! Before you get one its a good idea to research them thoroughly as a lot of information online is outdated, a lot say they need to be kept dry but this causes pyramiding. There are some links to Tom's Leopard and Sulcata care in my signature. Baby leopards need at least 70% humidity and 80% is fine to stop pyramiding. They also need humid hides but you can learn all this in time  good luck!



The way I like to summarize all this is that for hatchling leopards and sulcatas, it is best to simulate the hot, humid, african rainy season, instead of the usually recommended desert conditions that they simply do not experience in the wild.


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## tyler0912 (Apr 13, 2013)

REDFOOT! I'm kinda bias.. But they have great personalities very outgoing and love to follow you..Constantly!


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## FLGirl41 (Apr 13, 2013)

Thank you for the reminders about husbandry! I am researching as much as I can and will make sure to provide the best care possible. I have several reptiles and always make sure to spoil my kiddos as much as possible. It's one of my favorite things to do-- setting up my pets' enclosures and making sure they're perfect.  I'm sure several of you do the same!


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## FLINTUS (Apr 13, 2013)

Some red foots do get very large, Gran Chaco's get to 18 inches frequently.


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## FLGirl41 (Apr 14, 2013)

Yeah, redfoots are definitely still on my mind.  I can't deny that my climate is ideal for them. I was out maintaining my yard today and picturing how/where my pen will go. I can definitely envision having redfoots. 

Choosing just one species is hard! The easy choice would be to get both, but I don't want to get in over my head, and since I'll be building a heated shed it's more practical for me to stick with ONE pen and ONE shed for the time being.  In the future I can always build another of each if the bug becomes totally irresistable.


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## FLGirl41 (Apr 16, 2013)

I'm leaning heavily now towards getting a couple of redfoots AND a leopard. I'd like to get at least two female subadult or adult redfoots, large enough to be housed outdoors from the start, and also get a leopard hatchling, which I can raise indoors and will give me plenty of time to construct a second enclosure outside. I just love torts!


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## Tom (Apr 16, 2013)

Don't do a pair. Do three or more. There is a thread on pairs in the second link in my signature. Tortoises usually don't do well in pairs.


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## FLINTUS (Apr 16, 2013)

Tom said:


> Don't do a pair. Do three or more. There is a thread on pairs in the second link in my signature. Tortoises usually don't do well in pairs.



Most of the time this would be true but red foots are very sociable and will do just fine in a pair.


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## Tom (Apr 16, 2013)

FLINTUS said:


> Tom said:
> 
> 
> > Don't do a pair. Do three or more. There is a thread on pairs in the second link in my signature. Tortoises usually don't do well in pairs.
> ...



I understand and have experienced the sociability of redfoots firsthand many times, and they often DON'T get along in pairs. They will generally fare better as singles or in groups. I am sure many people have kept them as pairs and they survived, but I have seen many times where males fight, males overly harass a female, and I even saw two females that did not get along until a mature male was added.

Pancakes are generally social too, but its the same story. Better as singles or groups, rather than pairs.

Jacqui keeps some of her hingebacks in pairs and claims it works well in her case. I don't have any hingeback experience, so I'll take her word for it.

For all the species that I do know, pairs are NOT a good idea.


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## Redstrike (Apr 16, 2013)

I'm going to agree with Tom on this. 

I had a pair of redfoot hatchlings for about a year and one was overwhelmingly dominant over the other. Every morning the aggressor would steal food from the more passive individual. Leg bites and shoving were common between the two. I added two more to the group and it really changed the dynamics. The aggressor became apathetic about stealing food from the others - it's too much work to try and steal from three other tortoises - "better to keep your head down and eat what you've got". This is what I assume the tortoise was "thinking" (optimal foraging theory). I still have one (Mandarin) that is extremely passive and submissive. Usually s/he is fed separately from the others to ensure s/he isn't beat up.

Sometimes you get lucky with a pair, but I'd shoot for 3-5 if you're going to get more than one. They all have different personalities and things can change quickly. The alternative is to get two but always be prepared to house them separately.


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## FLGirl41 (Apr 16, 2013)

Thank you for the advice. I was not aware that two redfoots may not get along. A friend of mine has a 1.2 redfoot group she may rehome to me, but she's not sure yet. I know they get along well, so that would be the most ideal situation.


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## mike taylor (Apr 16, 2013)

I would say red foot . Just because that are not to small but not to big if you have to put them in the house with you.


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