# Coil Bulbs With research study



## tortadise

This topic has been brought up numerous times. But with so many pages and pages of constant back and forth most the good posted information gets caught in a spider web, going unnoticed.

Personally I have never used them. I don't feel the design of the bulb can produce well enough proper UV. Also the incidences with kerato conjunctivitis (eye issues, even blindness)

Anyways so I wanted to start this topic again with a research publication by a very respected zoological UV deducted company.

Here yah go. I can also post another thread linking another study I posted in one of these debates if y'all see fit?

http://www.uvguide.co.uk/phototherapyphosphor.htm


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## Tom

This is from 2006-2007.

No matter what any study says, either pro or con, no one can erase what so many of have seen first hand. There is NO doubt in my mind that some of these bulbs cause problems some of the time. I'd love to see a study demonstrating specifically what causes the issue and why it is so random, but absent that, there is still definitely a problem. Even now in 2014.


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## tortadise

Tom said:


> This is from 2006-2007.
> 
> No matter what any study says, either pro or con, no one can erase what so many of have seen first hand. There is NO doubt in my mind that some of these bulbs cause problems some of the time. I'd love to see a study demonstrating specifically what causes the issue and why it is so random, but absent that, there is still definitely a problem. Even now in 2014.



Yeah it is a little outdated. Some navigation around the sure though and can find a few more recent(few years old) cases. If speculate the randomness of the issue. Is a cheaper manufacturing process of the bulb. Produce more at a cheaper rate and live with the percentages of issues at hand. After all not everyone knows these are harmful. I have actually put in an email to this site on an update of research. We shall see what I hear back.


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## Tom

I am all for learning more about the subject. These bulbs are a good concept in theory. If the problem can be definitively identified and somehow completely solved, they would be a great thing. I don't know if this is possible.


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## ChloeCrull

As Tom mentioned, I have never used these bulbs due to the fact that they just don't appeal to me. I can't imagine their design or structure producing light as efficient as other choices. I have (unfortunately) read very many stories and articles regarding the damage to reptile's eyes and such due to their lighting. It's a sad event that doesn't seem to be stopping anytime soon, but I urge those reading to avoid these products.


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## Maggie Cummings

I have seen and used that study from 2007 before.
But here's my experience with coil bulbs, as if nobody knows....I had 3 Sulcata yearlings, I was into rescue at the time and funds were tight. I don't remember anymore the exact details due to a recent head injury, but one yearling got swollen puffy eyes even tho at that time my husbandry was beyond reproach. The second's eyes got to be slits, and the thirds eyes ran all the time. I had been using coil bulbs because they were cheap. These were not the florescent kind that were straight then curved back to the base and there were 3 tubes, I think. These bulbs I used read" super UV coil lamp, 20 watts". I'll post a picture. That was before we knew they were bad, that was about at the start of it, because it was that article that told me what was wrong with them. I think. It was probably my sister, anyway I ended up with one totally blind, one partially blind in one eye and the third recovered after a long treatment. All were adopted out. I had the bulb pointed straight down, and used 2 because I didn't think 20 watts was enough for growing Sulcata. So I had one at each end of the habitat, mainly a constant bombardment of light for 11 or 12 hours....Damn.


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## ChloeCrull

maggie3fan said:


> I have seen and used that study from 2007 before.
> But here's my experience with coil bulbs, as if nobody knows....I had 3 Sulcata yearlings, I was into rescue at the time and funds were tight. I don't remember anymore the exact details due to a recent head injury, but one yearling got swollen puffy eyes even tho at that time my husbandry was beyond reproach. The second's eyes got to be slits, and the thirds eyes ran all the time. I had been using coil bulbs because they were cheap. These were not the florescent kind that were straight then curved back to the base and there were 3 tubes, I think. These bulbs I used read" super UV coil lamp, 20 watts". I'll post a picture. That was before we knew they were bad, that was about at the start of it, because it was that article that told me what was wrong with them. I think. It was probably my sister, anyway I ended up with one totally blind, one partially blind in one eye and the third recovered after a long treatment. All were adopted out. I had the bulb pointed straight down, and used 2 because I didn't think 20 watts was enough for growing Sulcata. So I had one at each end of the habitat, mainly a constant bombardment of light for 11 or 12 hours....Damn.




It's not your fault. Unfortunately, I wouldn't doubt that thousands of reptiles suffer because of these bulbs every day. It's a learning experience. Anyone could make the same mistake; we tend to learn towards the trusted Exo Terra and Zoo Med brands and logos. I used to think that every bulb was relatively the same.


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## Turtlepete

Just to throw it out there, I raised I think 27 red foot young under two coil UV bulbs this year….And I've used the same bulbs in years before. The concern about them not putting out enough UV does interest me (though they were healthy in every way, so I assume they were getting enough UV and thus properly metabolizing calcium?) but I can definitely say not one of those animals suffered from blindness….I never even knew there was an issue with these bulbs before reading it on this forum.


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## tortadise

Turtlepete said:


> Just to throw it out there, I raised I think 27 red foot young under two coil UV bulbs this year….And I've used the same bulbs in years before. The concern about them not putting out enough UV does interest me (though they were healthy in every way, so I assume they were getting enough UV and thus properly metabolizing calcium?) but I can definitely say not one of those animals suffered from blindness….I never even knew there was an issue with these bulbs before reading it on this forum.


Yeah there has been a member that did a study on them. He sent numerous bulbs to a lab and tested them. Zeno something is the members name. The lab results came back inconsistent with proper levels of UV emitting and was concluded they should not be used, very insufficient. I'll try and find those new results.


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## dmmj

Never used them myself, don't like the lookof them. I would lik to know though, why they cause problems.


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## Turtlepete

tortadise said:


> Yeah there has been a member that did a study on them. He sent numerous bulbs to a lab and tested them. Zeno something is the members name. The lab results came back inconsistent with proper levels of UV emitting and was concluded they should not be used, very insufficient. I'll try and find those new results.



Hm guess I'll be rethinking them then! The tube-type bulbs would fit better where I need to use them anyways. I've never liked how the tip of the coil sticks out further than the hoods, can't set them on any surface. Thanks.


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## tortadise

Turtlepete said:


> Hm guess I'll be rethinking them then! The tube-type bulbs would fit better where I need to use them anyways. I've never liked how the tip of the coil sticks out further than the hoods, can't set them on any surface. Thanks.



Here yah go.
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/uvb-coil-bulbs-and-keratitis.103186/


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## FLINTUS

According to [email protected] Arcadia, there were a few Chinese shipments that leaked something-can't remember what-, but only affected a few brands.


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## Maggie Cummings

It was my understanding that the rays were too concentrated out of the end of the bulb. They were made to go across, not down, only they never told anyone that. So the animals were bombarded with an unusually weird bright light all damn day...both of mine were hung straight down...


dmmj said:


> Never used them myself, don't like the lookof them. I would lik to know though, why they cause problems.


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## Yvonne G

Turtlepete said:


> Just to throw it out there, I raised I think 27 red foot young under two coil UV bulbs this year….And I've used the same bulbs in years before. The concern about them not putting out enough UV does interest me (though they were healthy in every way, so I assume they were getting enough UV and thus properly metabolizing calcium?) but I can definitely say not one of those animals suffered from blindness….I never even knew there was an issue with these bulbs before reading it on this forum.




Pete:

When the bulbs first came out and the companies started getting such bad feedback about it being harmful to tortoise's eyes, they supposedly fixed the bulbs. However, no recall was ever done, so you don't know if you're buying an old, bad bulb or a new, fixed bulb. You probably lucked out and bought the newer ones.


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## zenoandthetortoise

Hi all,

The aforementioned analysis was me, although to clarify, all data mentioned was my own, measured with my own equipment. I sent nothing out to another lab. I have a more detailed write up in the works but I'm in a drop-everything-for- Ebola mode so it may be some time before that gets finished. In the meantime, I can address any questions regarding the previously posted data as time allows.


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## Turtlepete

I see. I assume its been long enough that all of the bad stock would've been weeded out by now, but that still doesn't matter if they don't put out sufficient UV.

What about the ZooMed Powersun bulbs? Do those put out appropriate UVB? Using those in some indoor setups at the moment.


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## pfara

Turtlepete said:


> I see. I assume its been long enough that all of the bad stock would've been weeded out by now, but that still doesn't matter if they don't put out sufficient UV.
> 
> What about the ZooMed Powersun bulbs? Do those put out appropriate UVB? Using those in some indoor setups at the moment.



ZooMed Powersuns seem to be a very popular choice. Because of this, I would think that UVB output who be excellent for all reptiles. I'm sure there are solarmeter 6.2 and 6.5 charts out there (on teh intarwebs) comparing bulb types and brands for UV output. That or someone on here has the numbers.


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## Turtlepete

pfara said:


> I'm sure there are solarmeter 6.2 and 6.5 charts out there (on teh intarwebs) comparing bulb types and brands for UV output. That or someone on here has the numbers.



But you know I'm to lazy for that. .


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## leigti

pfara said:


> ZooMed Powersuns seem to be a very popular choice. Because of this, I would think that UVB output who be excellent for all reptiles. I'm sure there are solarmeter 6.2 and 6.5 charts out there (on teh intarwebs) comparing bulb types and brands for UV output. That or someone on here has the numbers.


I've tried to look for those charts but haven't found him yet. It would be interesting if somebody here on the floor him that had a wide variety of bulbs etc. could do a little experiment. It would take some time and work but would be extremely appreciated by all of us I'm sure


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## leigti

I have a 6.5 m and a few different types of light so I could Record the readings that I get. but I'm not all that experience so would anybody care?


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## Mavrik

I would love to see an in-depth and more recent study on these bulbs. Even on a number of different species of animal, not just tortoises. I've used both coils and bars for my critters (have leopard geckos and bearded dragons too). I've never really noticed any issue or difference in any of my critters -- it was just a monetary and personal decision that I've ended up using the Zoo-Med bulbs that are all-in-one basking and UVB bulbs.


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## Mr Buster

Mavrik said:


> I would love to see an in-depth and more recent study on these bulbs. Even on a number of different species of animal, not just tortoises. I've used both coils and bars for my critters (have leopard geckos and bearded dragons too). I've never really noticed any issue or difference in any of my critters -- it was just a monetary and personal decision that I've ended up using the Zoo-Med bulbs that are all-in-one basking and UVB bulbs.



With all complaints and rumors about these bulbs being dangerous to pets why have the manufacturers not plastered a defense of their product all over the www ?

Trust me, the studies have been done and they are under lock and key or in a landfill somewhere.


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## Maggie Cummings

I'll give you an indepth study, I had 3 Sulcata yearlings, one was completely blinded, one had serious eye damage, and I got the third adopted out before we could see any permanent damage. That was MY personal experience. I don't need a f'ing study and this subject has been beat to death. Let it damn die, figure out how to feed them correctly and care for them correctly and use a Powersun 100 or 150 watt. There won't be a solution to the problem until the manufacturers admit there was a wrong. Now lets move on to another popular problem....pyramiding, or collecting wild box turtles. Anything but the same old crap. Oh wait....that IS the same old crap


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## Yvonne G

This is another one of those revived old threads.


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## ZEROPILOT

Yvonne G said:


> This is another one of those revived old threads.


And still a very valid, useful topic.....


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## Maggie Cummings

ZEROPILOT said:


> And still a very valid, useful topic.....



No it's not. It's been beat to death, then when I say I had a Sulcata yearling blinded by one, I get all kinds of PM's questioning as to whether it's my fault or not. Did I turn the light off at night? Did they have another source of heat? The questions go on and on.....so here is my confession.....I DID blind that sulcata baby on purpose, just because I wanted to. And that my friends is the end of the spiral bulb topic for me and I will try and put a stop to it everytime some new member has to bring it up again.


Yvonne G said:


> This is another one of those revived old threads.




So close it, it's 2 years old, almost 3.


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## ZEROPILOT

Maggie,
I also do not recommend anyone use them at all.
There must be two dozen posts where I've warned a new member about the possibility of harm and most of them also decided that any risk is too much. Since other, purely safe options are available.
There is a risk and it's too large for me.
I thought you knew where I stood.
We're on the same side here.


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## Maggie Cummings

ZEROPILOT said:


> Maggie,
> I also do not recommend anyone use them at all.
> There must be two dozen posts where I've warned a new member about the possibility of harm and most of them also decided that any risk is too much. Since other, purely safe options are available.
> There is a risk and it's too large for me.
> I thought you knew where I stood.
> We're on the same side here.



Sorry, really, sincerely. I'm having a hard time in my life right now and taking it out on everyone......I apologize.


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## TheSulcata

Tom said:


> This is from 2006-2007.
> 
> No matter what any study says, either pro or con, no one can erase what so many of have seen first hand. There is NO doubt in my mind that some of these bulbs cause problems some of the time. I'd love to see a study demonstrating specifically what causes the issue and why it is so random, but absent that, there is still definitely a problem. Even now in 2014.


Yeah, for mine they caused minor eye issues. I was luckily able to take them away in time


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