# Came home to a dead Sulcata tortoise hatchling?????



## Grapes (Mar 23, 2016)

My Sulcata tortoise died randomly. My wife had fed him yesterday afternoon and he ate and was walking around. I came home from work this morning and he was sitting just outside his log hide neck extended and legs sprawled out slightly. I've heard stories of tortoises going into a state of suspended animation and then coming back to life? Anyone have any ideas what might've happened???


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## spud's_mum (Mar 23, 2016)

Is he limp or stiff? 
If he is limp then he may still be alive so don't bury him yet! 
Hope your ok.  <3


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## Pearly (Mar 23, 2016)

@ZEROPILOT has had first hand experience with deathlike state. Has your hatching been sick?


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## Grapes (Mar 23, 2016)

No the little guy has been doing great eating his grass and weeds pooping regularly getting natural sun 3-4 times a week. My wife fed him yesterday afternoon and he was good walking around soaking in his pool and eating.


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## Grapes (Mar 23, 2016)

spudthetortoise said:


> Is he limp or stiff?
> If he is limp then he may still be alive so don't bury him yet!
> Hope your ok.  <3


 
He's pretty stiff I put in him his tub to soak just in case but I'm pretty sure he's dead. Idk what I did wrong?? I put so much time and effort into making sure he had the right setup and diet. Pretty bummed. He was a great little tort.


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## spud's_mum (Mar 23, 2016)

Grapes said:


> He's pretty stiff I put in him his tub to soak just in case but I'm pretty sure he's dead. Idk what I did wrong?? I put so much time and effort into making sure he had the right setup and diet. Pretty bummed. He was a great little tort.


I'm so sorry. 
More experienced members will be able to give some insight into this


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## SarahChelonoidis (Mar 23, 2016)

I'm sorry for your loss. Without a necroscopy, we'd really just be guessing at a cause of death.


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## Grapes (Mar 23, 2016)

SarahChelonoidis said:


> I'm sorry for your loss. Without a necroscopy, we'd really just be guessing at a cause of death.



Thank you very much


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## Tom (Mar 23, 2016)

What did your wife feed him?

How long have you had him?

What did he weigh?

Where did you get him?

These answers might give us a clue to help discover what went wrong. You have my condolences. Sorry for your sad day.


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## wellington (Mar 23, 2016)

So very sorry. Sometimes things like this can happen and the best guess is it was something to do with the way it was taken care of before you got him. Don't blame yourself. It's possible that no matter what you did right, he would have died anyway.


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## Grapes (Mar 24, 2016)

Tom said:


> What did your wife feed him?
> 
> How long have you had him?
> 
> ...



I was at work for two days before I came home to find him dead but she fed him some spring mix and Sulcata grass clippings. I got him from the reptile super show in Pomona ,CA.


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## Grapes (Mar 24, 2016)

Tom said:


> What did your wife feed him?
> 
> How long have you had him?
> 
> ...



When I got him home from the show 01-14-16 he weighed 82g I weighed him 03-10-16 and he weighed 101g he steadily put on weight the whole time I had him. I fed him mainly Sulcata grass and broad leaf seed I grew in trays with grassland tortoise pellets and spring mix occasionally.


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## Grapes (Mar 24, 2016)

wellington said:


> So very sorry. Sometimes things like this can happen and the best guess is it was something to do with the way it was taken care of before you got him. Don't blame yourself. It's possible that no matter what you did right, he would have died anyway.



Thanks a lot I hope I didn't do anything wrong that may have caused this.


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## Tom (Mar 24, 2016)

Grapes said:


> When I got him home from the show 01-14-16 he weighed 82g I weighed him 03-10-16 and he weighed 101g he steadily put on weight the whole time I had him. I fed him mainly Sulcata grass and broad leaf seed I grew in trays with grassland tortoise pellets and spring mix occasionally.



At that size, and with that growth rate, the possibility of organ failure due to a dry start is greatly reduced.

If everything was good and he was eating well, and then was suddenly dead, that sounds like a case of either poisoning or extreme heat exposure.

Sometimes spouses or friends with good intentions put the tortoise out for some sun by putting them in a tub in direct sun with no shade. This happened to me once. I told her to put them in their tub and carry them outside to their sunning enclosure. She did. Only she left them in their tub in the enclosure in full sun. And this friend was an animal person… Lucky for me, I caught it in time. I only mention this because many people think that "sunning" the tortoise literally means putting them in the sun, when we all know they need _access_ to sun, but should always have some shade handy too.

Any cleaning products used close to the enclosure? Paint or water sealer? Bug spray? Its springtime and a lot of people put out lawn chemicals and weed killer sprays around this time of year. Fumes of any kind nearby?

My point is that something killed your tortoise. They don't make it to 101 grams and then just suddenly drop dead for no reason. If it were a case of a bad start or poor husbandry, the tortoise would not have made it that far. Those usually stall at around 50 grams until they die. This was not your case.


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## Kori5 (Mar 24, 2016)

Is it possible something was on that spring mix? Did your wife wash it before offering? I read a topic from few years ago. One member lost her tortoises due to something sprayed on the cucumbers :/. I'm so sorry for your loss.


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## Grapes (Mar 24, 2016)

Tom said:


> At that size, and with that growth rate, the possibility of organ failure due to a dry start is greatly reduced.
> 
> If everything was good and he was eating well, and then was suddenly dead, that sounds like a case of either poisoning or extreme heat exposure.
> 
> ...



The last reading my acurite digital hygrometer/thermometer showed when I found him was a high of 90 and a low of 77. That particular acurite is mid enclosure so it would've been cooler on the other side away from his heat source. He was found dead half way under his warm side hide. It really is unfortunate he passed he was a great little tort. Trying not to let it discourage me from continuing the hobby/obsession. 

Might try again a little later and get the hatchling from the forum.


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## Grapes (Mar 24, 2016)

Kori5 said:


> Is it possible something was on that spring mix? Did your wife wash it before offering? I read a topic from few years ago. One member lost her tortoises due to something sprayed on the cucumbers :/. I'm so sorry for your loss.



My wife said she did not wash the greens before offering them. To be honest I rarely do either. I think I will from now on just to be safe.


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## Kori5 (Mar 24, 2016)

Grapes said:


> My wife said she did not wash the greens before offering them. To be honest I rarely do either. I think I will from now on just to be safe.


I don't think it would change anything if they had some chemicals on them. In the particular case I mentioned, the member washed and peeled the cucumbers. I'm not saying your tortoise was poisoned, it's just what crossed my mind. You and your wife did everything right, don't blame yourself. Would a necropsy bring a little peace?


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## Cheryl Hills (Mar 24, 2016)

So sorry you lost your baby. Keep your chin up. It may not have anything to do with what you were doing with him. If you can afford to do it, I would get a necropsy done. Then you would know for sure and put your mind at ease. Clean everything up and try again. Stick with this forum. There are many experienced people here that can give you advice and help. Again sorry for your loss.


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## Grapes (Mar 26, 2016)

I might look into a necropsy see how much it might run me. Just to see if I did anything wrong. Thanks for the support guys.


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## Grapes (Mar 26, 2016)

Anyone ever gotten a necropsy done on a hatchling and how much did it run you?


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## dmmj (Mar 26, 2016)

if you go the necropsy route refrigerate the corpse don't freeze it.


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## Tom (Mar 26, 2016)

Grapes said:


> Anyone ever gotten a necropsy done on a hatchling and how much did it run you?



With my discount, it runs me around $500. I think most people will pay more. It also depends on what all you have done and if you send out the internal organs for pathology. That costs more. Some time they find the problem in the initial exam, and don't need to send things out. In my last one I had done a few years ago on some sulcata hatchlings that were failing to thrive, the vet found disintegrated perlite lining the entire GI tract. Turns out the breeder incubated them in perlite and then left them in the incubator for up to a week after hatching.

This prohibitive cost is why the death of a baby often remains a mystery.


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## Grapes (Mar 26, 2016)

Oh wow yeah I don't think I can swing that. I've got a baby on the way lol wife would lose it if I spent that much.


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## Tom (Mar 26, 2016)

Grapes said:


> Oh wow yeah I don't think I can swing that. I've got a baby on the way lol wife would lose it if I spent that much.



Ask your vet. Perhaps a cursory exam could be done cheaper and a COD might be easily discovered without the full histo-pathological exam. A simple look at the lungs, kidney and GI tract by a trained eye might reveal some important details. They might open him up and find a freshly swallowed black widow or wasp. Anything is possible.

Doesn't hurt to ask for a quote.


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## Grapes (Mar 26, 2016)

Tom said:


> Ask your vet. Perhaps a cursory exam could be done cheaper and a COD might be easily discovered without the full histo-pathological exam. A simple look at the lungs, kidney and GI tract by a trained eye might reveal some important details. They might open him up and find a freshly swallowed black widow or wasp. Anything is possible.
> 
> Doesn't hurt to ask for a quote.



Yeah I'm gonna at least ask for a quote thanks


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## MPRC (Mar 27, 2016)

Be warned that if he hasn't been refrigerated (and not frozen) you might be out of luck.


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## Randi (Mar 27, 2016)

If there are Veterinary Universities or Colleges near you, some Veterinarians will do procedures for lower prices to teach students. I would call one and see if something could be arranged. It wouldn't hurt to explore that. I would want a necropsy done to ensure that I didn't do something. Sometimes you find that there was nothing that could be done. I am sorry for your loss. You may experience feelings of failure, guilt, and maybe a loss of some passion for a bit as you question yourself. Give yourself time but don't give up. Try again. There are excellent sources for tortoises here on the forum. There are also plenty of sections for different topics. When you're ready, message some breeders or post a thread. Lots of support here. Again, sorry for your loss. Hopefully you find comfort and peace in the memories made together. May your little one Rest in Peace.


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## ZEROPILOT (Mar 28, 2016)

Yes. Give him a day or two to be certain that it is not still alive. Mine was "DEAD" for almost two days and today is happy and well. She didn't respond to anything. I dug a little grave in the yard. the next thing I knew, she was moving around again.
Limp is a good sign. Stiff is not. stiff with sunken eyes will mean dead every time. Limp and dangling, maybe not.
Is it possible that the tortoise overheated?


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## deadheadvet (Mar 28, 2016)

It is way to late for a necropsy. It would have needed to be done within 24 hours. A cursory look is not likely to yield the cause of death. It would have to be a full necropsy with histopath slides viewed by a pathologist. As far as a discount at a veterinary college, good luck. They are beyond expensive and are for profit. We only send the most severe cases to the vet school for that reason. All estimates start at 3,000$.


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## Yvonne G (Mar 28, 2016)

Wow! Prices sure have changed in the 20 years or so since I've had a necropsy done. We are fortunate to have a lab here in Fresno that does animal necropsy. I took a bird to the lab about 20 years ago and the initial exam was $70. If I wanted a more indepth or histological exam, it would have been quite a bit more. But the initial exam told me what the bird died from.

http://www.vetmed.ucdavis.edu/cahfs/lab_tests/index.cfm


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## ZEROPILOT (Mar 28, 2016)

Having myself spent northwards of $2,000 trying to make a tortoise well, I am quite familiar with the costs associated with vets and tortoises.
I can't also say that I would 100% trust what the necropsy had to say about the cause of death. It seems that there is a good deal of guesswork with the whole thing and very little science.
This is just my experience.


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## Rue (Mar 28, 2016)

I have paid around $70 each for bird necropsies.

One came back (one of my chickens): "No idea".

The other came back (injured wild bird I took in for vet treatment, but they euthanized it on me!): "Healthy juvenile female".


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## Markw84 (Mar 28, 2016)

Apparently it is too late for this case, but to echo Yvonne's post, the last I checked with UC Davis Veterinary school, a reptile necropsy was right about $200 for a private party living in California. That was last year.


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## ZEROPILOT (Mar 29, 2016)

Markw84 said:


> Apparently it is too late for this case, but to echo Yvonne's post, the last I checked with UC Davis Veterinary school, a reptile necropsy was right about $200 for a private party living in California. That was last year.


That would be worth the cost if a cause was found and you had other tortoises or were thinking of getting another.


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## teresaf (Feb 12, 2017)

What were you measuring the heat and humidity with?


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