# Nursing a CA Desert Tort - need some help.



## rwfoss (Apr 18, 2010)

I am the uber-proud owner of a sulcata and a Russian tort. Did my research and, of course, did a lot of asking questions here. Just prior to getting our first tortoise, we had friends post on FACEBOOK that they were moving from AZ and wanted to know if someone wanted their Desert Tortoise. We responded a close second, but it was our best friends a few blocks away that ended up with what turned out to be just a little tortoise - maybe 3-4 inches?

Anyway, I was approached by the family this morning and asked if I would be able to take a look at the tortoise and even keep it at the house to help "nurse it" some. They don't think he's doing very well. After asking some simple questions, I can tell that this guy probably isn't doing well. He's not had any lights (no UVB, no heat). He's just been in a 10 gallon aquarium in a bedroom, so whatever natural light may come in, that is what he's been getting. 

We're going over for dinner tonight, and will be bringing back the little guy with us. My goal is to give this guy a good RE-BOOT and get him on his way to good health. The owners are good people and will care for him well with good information. I think they were given the "it's a desert tortoise and you live in the desert so he'll be fine" type of advise. I want to bring this little one back in a month or two (or whenever he/she is healthy) and present them with a complete proper set up as a gift. (They're boys are my godsons, and they LOVE animals.) 

Sorry this was long, but I don't have a lot of information about desert torts and wanted to give a heads up. I will be posting pictures and more information tomorrow evening.


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## Candy (Apr 18, 2010)

As I too just got a DT I will not give you any advice since I'm still learning myself. Good luck with him and we'll be waiting for the photos.


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## Maggie Cummings (Apr 18, 2010)

I am always surprised when someone apologizes for a "long" post. I don't believe we have any limit on the number of words sentences or paragraphs. I always make long posts. I am pretty sure that when someone sees my name as the original poster it scares them and they don't read it. As you IMHO didn't ask any specific questions I will tell you that Gopherus agassizii are very fragile youngsters. He needs a UVB light and good food. Spring Mix will do, that's what I used to feed my babies. Cut it up like for a salad and add other greens like endive and romaine red and green leaf lettuces, stuff like that and cut it all up and mix it all around for him. Warm him up as if he is not warm enough he won't eat. Soak him daily or every other day and add a couple of drops of bird vitamins in it. Here's a link for you...

http://www.chelonia.org/Articles/Gagassiziicare.htm


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## rwfoss (Apr 18, 2010)

maggie3fan said:


> I am always surprised when someone apologizes for a "long" post. I don't believe we have any limit on the number of words sentences or paragraphs. I always make long posts. I am pretty sure that when someone sees my name as the original poster it scares them and they don't read it. As you IMHO didn't ask any specific questions I will tell you that Gopherus agassizii are very fragile youngsters. He needs a UVB light and good food. Spring Mix will do, that's what I used to feed my babies. Cut it up like for a salad and add other greens like endive and romaine red and green leaf lettuces, stuff like that and cut it all up and mix it all around for him. Warm him up as if he is not warm enough he won't eat. Soak him daily or every other day and add a couple of drops of bird vitamins in it. Here's a link for you...
> 
> http://www.chelonia.org/Articles/Gagassiziicare.htm



Knee jerk reaction, I guess - apologizing for long posts. 

Thank you for the link!! I kept reading after my post and saw how important water and soaking can be after hypernation to flush out toxins. I'll have him soaked tonight!


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## Maggie Cummings (Apr 18, 2010)

If he is not warm enough to metabolize the food he won't eat. His system needs to be about 85 degrees, if he isn't he just won't eat. So soak him and put a light on him even if it's just a regular bulb. He needs something to warm him up. He needs to be directly under a light bulb. He won't be warm enough even if your room is warm. HE needs to be warm. It's a serious thing and you are walking a fine line...


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## rwfoss (Apr 19, 2010)

Real quick update before I dash off to work. Here are two pictures I took last night. When I went to put him back, I put my fingers on the top and bottom of his shell and he is completely soft. The shell is like leather on both sides!


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## Shelly (Apr 19, 2010)

Where did they get him? I hope he was not removed from the wild...


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## rwfoss (Apr 19, 2010)

Shelly said:


> Where did they get him? I hope he was not removed from the wild...



Shelly, 

The friends that currently own him got him from some other friends of ours that we haven't seen in a while. I'm not 100% sure where they got him from, but I don't think it was from the wild. I will locate them on FB and find out, though.


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## Maggie Cummings (Apr 19, 2010)

It is my experience that once they get soft they end up dying. So I just kinda wanted to give you a heads up that he may not make it.


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## Skyler Nell (Apr 19, 2010)

aww cute little guy! i hope he makes it!
good luck


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## Madortoise (Apr 20, 2010)

I hope he makes it.


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## rwfoss (Apr 20, 2010)

He's getting sun outside, and then heat lamp and UVB inside. I offered a small salad with calcium, water, and a cuddlebone. He took took big chomps out of the cuddlebone, which is good. I know his odds aren't great, but here's to hoping and praying!!


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## Kristina (Apr 20, 2010)

That is all you can do, is give it your best. Good luck!!!


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## rwfoss (Apr 21, 2010)

Quick update - On the morning of 4/20/10, I gave little guy a finely chopped small salad sprinkled with calcium powder. When dropping it off, I noticed he had taken two good sized bites from the cuddlebone I put in his enclosure. Gave him fresh water, and went to work. When I got home yesterday evening, he had eaten all of his salad (which the previous owners state he won't eat for them). That tells me my temperatures are better. He also drank a good portion of his water. I repeated everything this morning. 

Fingers crossed, small steps...


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## Kristina (Apr 21, 2010)

Small steps... Very good though! If he is eating he has a much better chance than if he isn't.

I would also suggest some bird vitamin soaks, and a few drops in his regular water dish.


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## pugsandkids (Apr 21, 2010)

Poor little guy, I sure hope he keeps improving!
I'm such a research freak. I can't understand how they could have him, not knowing what he needs. Sounds like he's in good hands now.


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## rwfoss (Apr 21, 2010)

pugsandkids said:


> Poor little guy, I sure hope he keeps improving!
> I'm such a research freak. I can't understand how they could have him, not knowing what he needs. Sounds like he's in good hands now.



I know what you mean. I really think it's a case of the original owners making it sound easy. Hey, it's a desert tortoise - we live in the desert - you're good. 

I'm wondering, if we can get the shell to harden up and he lives, what type of deformities he might experience?


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## jmu114 (Apr 21, 2010)

Wishing your baby tort a speedy recovery! Hope we can share happy endings in a few weeks. Good luck!


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## Yvonne G (Apr 22, 2010)

It would be a good idea to try to find some liquid calcium. But remember that calcium won't work without the Vitamin d3 from the sun (or from a UV light).


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## rwfoss (Apr 27, 2010)

Well, the only change I've seen in my little house guest is that he is eating most of the food I am giving him every day. He is getting soaks, and he is drinking too. However, I have seen no evidence of his going to the bathroom at all. He is able to move around his enclosure, but like he was a week ago, it is slow and lethargic.


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## rwfoss (Apr 29, 2010)

So, still no visible use of the restroom. No stool, no urine. And still appears lethargic.

He appears to be bloated. His skin does not have wrinkles around his neck and legs. I'll try to get a picture posted, but it looks uncomfortable.

He got a baby food (carrot) bath last night (see other post about sick desert torts), and still offering calcium powdered food every day.


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## Kristina (Apr 29, 2010)

If he isn't passing stool, and is eating, he is impacted. I would be especially worried with the looks of bloating, he could be becoming septic.

It is time for a vet, IMHO.


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## rwfoss (Apr 30, 2010)

Here are three pictures I took this morning after a soak. The third picture does show some signs of feces, which is good, but that's the first sign I've seen. The pictures really show the bloating I'm talking about. Are there any natural ways to take care of that?


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## Yvonne G (Apr 30, 2010)

Oh, man...that doesn't look good. Might be renal failure. I really do think you need a qualified vet to help you with this tortoise.


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## Madortoise (May 1, 2010)

Poor guy!!! I agree with Yvonne. I Hope you get him to a good vet soon!


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## Candy (May 1, 2010)

Please take that little one to a qualified vet and get it some help. He needs more then you can get off of this forum. Don't let him suffer he does not look good. Let us know.


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## Sudhira (May 2, 2010)

no updates, hhhmmmm


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## tcpartymama (May 2, 2010)

OMG! You must get this guy to a qualified reptile vet! I rescued a baby desert tortoise and he had soft shell, beak deformaty, and very lathargic. My vet even said, don't get too attached. However, with proper lighting, heating, hand feeding, medicating with calcium drops and plain old TLC, he pulled through. I really hope this guy makes it. Good luck to you. Keep us posted. You have a lot of people on this thread hoping for the best.


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## rwfoss (May 2, 2010)

I'm going to be contacting a great Vet tomorrow. I'm hoping I can do some kind of payment plan if it it expensive, because we're kind of tight right now. The owners didn't know what they were getting into and don't want to take him to the vet. (I know what you want to say, but these are my best friends. Please be kind.) If I can get a vet to take a look and, if it gets expensive, allow me to make payments, we'll be good. But yes, I want him taken in right away.


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## Sudhira (May 2, 2010)

It cost me under $100. to take my under 1 year old CDT to the vet for a thorough checkup when I discovered his plastron was soft after adopting him. The longer you wait, the graver the condition, which looks ominous at this time. I hope the vet will be understanding, things are tight for them around here, and it seems we all need to help eachother out...best of luck


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## rwfoss (May 3, 2010)

I got the name of a good herp guy near my work. My friend with an adult female Leopard tort uses him and loves him. I went ahead and made an appointment. With their schedule and mine, I cannot get him in until Friday. In the meantime, he is still eating, still getting soaks, etc. I'm not going to tell the owners that I'm paying for a vet visit, because I don't want them to feel bad. The visit itself will be $55, which isn't bad. I'm just hoping they can work with me if meds/treatment is expensive. 

I'll keep you posted...


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## dmmj (May 3, 2010)

I hope he does well, I am no expert but he definetly looks bloated to me. Here is hoping it works out and you get some good news.


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## rwfoss (May 4, 2010)

When I got home yesterday evening, I poked my head into the tort room, like I usually do. This little guy is almost ALWAYS hiding. The only time I see him out is when I pick him up in the morning and put him in his food dish. Last night, he was wandering around, loooking alerts, foraging for more food. I gave him another little salad and he went right to it and finished it. He is eating well! Let's just hope we can get him...GOING!


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## rwfoss (May 5, 2010)

Another good sign today. Since I am gone at work all day and don't get to soak the little guy until the evening, I asked my wife to do it in the middle of the day when he is apt to be more awake. She just called me and said he kept drinking and walking around - seemed to enjoy the bath. When the water cooled down, she emptied it and refilled with more warm water. She said he immediately took a nice pee! That's the first evidence of using the bathroom I've seen!


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## rwfoss (May 6, 2010)

Feeding the torts this morning, I picked up this little guy and noticed a reduction in the swelling. He looks much better and is able to tuck his head and legs in more. 

Signs keep looking better. Vet visit tomorrow...


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## dmmj (May 6, 2010)

good to hear


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## rwfoss (May 6, 2010)

Just a couple of pics from the little tort's breakfast this morning...


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## Madortoise (May 6, 2010)

Hey! He looks a lot better!! Good Luck tomorrow with the vet visit! Hope you get to find out what the cause/problem was.


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## Sudhira (May 7, 2010)

Thank goodness he/she is better!

I wonder sometimes, if the little critters are so ill, and we warm them up and feed them more & better right away, if this doesn't tax their metabolic rate enough to cause a bit of fluid overload on their kidneys??? I am wondering if we had a somewhat debilitated tort, we should ease them into a regular portioned diet? I am going to ask our vet next time I take the torts in for a check up!


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## rwfoss (May 7, 2010)

Sudhira said:


> Thank goodness he/she is better!
> 
> I wonder sometimes, if the little critters are so ill, and we warm them up and feed them more & better right away, if this doesn't tax their metabolic rate enough to cause a bit of fluid overload on their kidneys??? I am wondering if we had a somewhat debilitated tort, we should ease them into a regular portioned diet? I am going to ask our vet next time I take the torts in for a check up!



That's a darn good question! I'll ask today too!


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## rwfoss (May 7, 2010)

Sorry, just getting happier about this guy. He took two poops in three hours. Another good sign. Now, we just need his carapace and plastron to harden up!!


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## dmmj (May 7, 2010)

well I don't want to give false hopes, but I think your little guy is doing 100% better keep up the good work. He does not look bloated anymore either.


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## Sudhira (May 7, 2010)

What did the vet say? You will need calcium glubionate ( liquid calcium ) from the vet to harden the plastron up...it works!!!


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## rwfoss (May 7, 2010)

Okay, so I just got home from the turtle doctor, the chiropractor, an hour drive, and then the grocery store. So, the vet said based on the way the tortoise was earlier in the week, he was shocked to see how well he is doing now! He did a thorough examination and said that he looks really good. He made me feel proud when he said that we did everything right and probably saved his life. (So thanks for all of the advise!!) He said that keeping up the diet, giving daily sun, and continue with the calcium powder on his food, he will continue to improve and his shell will harden up. 

Now the visit, as I said earlier, was only $55 - a cost I'm absorbing without telling the owners since they didn't want pay for a visit. My wife wasn't too happy when I told her, but she knew that I'd be frustrated if she told me no. (That's why I did it first and told her about it later. Yeah, I'm a jerk.) 

So little Tony Hawk is going to be okay after all, so it seems!!


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## Madortoise (May 7, 2010)

Good job. Maybe your friend will let you keep the tort; he needs a good daddy like you!


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## dmmj (May 7, 2010)

it's easier to ask for forgiveness than permission, good to hear though.


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## Sudhira (May 8, 2010)

dmmj said:


> it's easier to ask for forgiveness than permission, good to hear though.



Indeed, and good job on the nursing care! Little Hawk is so lucky to have found you!


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## Kristina (May 8, 2010)

I think you are doing that baby a HUGE disservice by not telling the owners that you had to take him to the vet.

I know they are good friends of yours, and I am not bashing them or telling you to be mean. But I am sorry, they NEED to feel a BIT bad about this, and understand that this baby was VERY close to death. You are putting all this time and money into saving this little life, and unless they know how serious this was, how do you know this poor kid won't be right back in the same situation in a year?

I know you have faith in your friends, and I am not automatically assuming that they are bad people. If they are good friends to someone as compassionate as you, it is pretty much impossible for that to be true. But you need to sit down and tell them the whole truth. They need to know the level of care that is required to keep that baby going. 

Tell them that the vet visit was a gift to them and the tortoise, and if they insist on paying, let them. If they are not financially stable, tell them $5 a week would do it. But keeping the vet visit from them is very wrong.

You also need to show them the pictures of him at his very worst. Otherwise, how will they know what to look for? If that was indeed renal failure, it can and most likely will happen again. If they think he is just getting chubby, he could die.


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## rwfoss (May 8, 2010)

kyryah said:


> I think you are doing that baby a HUGE disservice by not telling the owners that you had to take him to the vet.
> 
> I know they are good friends of yours, and I am not bashing them or telling you to be mean. But I am sorry, they NEED to feel a BIT bad about this, and understand that this baby was VERY close to death. You are putting all this time and money into saving this little life, and unless they know how serious this was, how do you know this poor kid won't be right back in the same situation in a year?
> 
> ...



You do bring up a good point. In my conversations with them, they were both really concerned for him and knew that his conditions probably weren't right, which is why they called me. I told them about the bloating and the probability his kidneys were shutting down. They are also very willing to allow me to dictate his care and needs, such as proper lighting, diet, need for sun, etc. They are good with that and said they are totally willing to do whatever I say needs to be done. 

As for the vet, I was actually thinking this morning about telling them, even before I read your post. I have no problems making this a gift for his children, my Godchildren. They love animals and are hoping Tony Hawk can come home soon.

Thank you for your thoughts on this. Rest assured they are good people who do love animals. Not to mention that I am there on a weekly basis, so I'll be checking up on him now that I know about him!



rwfoss said:


> Sudhira said:
> 
> 
> > Thank goodness he/she is better!
> ...



Okay, so you are on to something here. The vet seemed to think that this could very well be a reason for the bloating. We won't know for sure, but he said that it made a lot of sense. So this might be a good thing to research!


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## rwfoss (May 12, 2010)

Not that another update is needed, but this little guy keeps showing that he is on the mend! He looks great, he's pooping when soaked, and has quite an appetite. I went to turn the lights out last night and he was wandering around looking for food, so I gave him a late night snack. He looked up at me after each bite, then head down into the bowl. 

WooHoo!


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## dmmj (May 12, 2010)

well keep me posted at least I am glad to hear of his improvement.


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## Sudhira (May 14, 2010)

So happy for you and the lil tortie


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## rwfoss (Jun 5, 2010)

Here are some pictures taken today right after Tony Hawk's bath...


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## Kristina (Jun 5, 2010)

Hee hee, really cute! Even his color looks better.

Great job with him!


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## rwfoss (Jun 5, 2010)

His carapace seems to be hardening up nice. His underside (forgot the name for it) is still too soft, but I think it's a little better. He's eating and going to the bathroom normally.


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## Scooter (Jun 5, 2010)

So glad to hear he is doing better. Please keep up with the updates. He is very cute


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## Missy (Jun 5, 2010)

I am saying a little prayer for the little guy, please continue to give updates.


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## Madortoise (Jun 12, 2010)

Very cute, indeed. I like that "got calcium" look on the torts.
Hope he continues to do better.


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## rwfoss (Jun 13, 2010)

Here he is today, just before going and getting a little outdoor time.


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## Scooter (Jun 13, 2010)

Absolutely love this pic! So cute!


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