# What would be the 'perfect' indoor habitat?



## Madkins007 (Feb 18, 2011)

There are dozens of great iguana and snake habitats available for sale, and plans all over the place for fabulous self-misting, self-heating habitats, including a really cool one for some arboreal lizard that did not even bother with cage walls, just using a potted tree as the 'enclosure'.

If we could design an 'ideal' but at least reasonably cost effective habitat for tortoises, what would we look for?

MY list would include...

- easy-clean walls and surfaces that nonetheless looked semi-naturalistic- bark, stone, etc.
- a lighting system that used timed dimmers to slowly start and end the day with white-balanced lighting, then kicked in some heat and UV for the middle of the day
- built-in mist/drain system that kept the place to a preset humidity level (obviously mostly for forest and Red-foot torts)- mist when the sensor says to, drain through an appropriate substrate, collect in a basin, get filtered/treated and heated, then remisted. Should include a simple way to see if more water needs to be added.
- related to the mist system- drippers for the water dish and plants that adds interest and keeps it full. Overflow goes to the above basin.
- speaking of plants, how about a built-in system of raising live plants in the habitat- especially food species- ensuring proper light, moisture, slow-release tort-safe fertilizer, etc.
- power vent system that ensured fresh air and no molding, but also did not suck out all of my heat and humidity
- heating panels, cables, etc. built into the walls and floor that can be set by zones (and possibly a pan of wet sand under everything that acts to filter the water, hold heat, and generate humidity)

I envision this as basically a deep pan that would do most of the work with a control box off to one side and some quick-release tubing connectors. You would set the pan in place, fill the bottom with sand, fill the top with substrate nuggets, assemble the side and top panels you selected, do the simplified plumbing, hang the lights, and go!



So, if no one in their right mind would mass produce something like this, why bother with the list?

Because of people like Balboa and the other creative minds here! I bet that with some thinking, we could come up with some pretty cool, relatively easy ways to accomplish a lot of this.

But the first step is thinking up the ideas- so what would be in YOUR ideal habitat?


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## CtTortoiseMom (Feb 18, 2011)

Whoa, built in misting system. A zoned habitat! I would pay big money for what you named below and I would want it to be at least 10ft by 10ft and multi level. Very good idea's!


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## PeanutbuttER (Feb 18, 2011)

Madkins007 said:


> - built-in mist/drain system that kept the place to a preset humidity level (obviously mostly for forest and Red-foot torts)- mist when the sensor says to, drain through an appropriate substrate, collect in a basin, get filtered/treated and heated, then remisted. Should include a simple way to see if more water needs to be added.



I've seen people that run large-misting systems directly from an RO water-line. No buckets to fill up, no hassle, no clogged nozzles, just mist. Not as cost effective as other options, but it is a whole lot less work once it's all automated.

This is the set-up in particular that I took that idea from. http://www.vivariumforum.com/community/dart-frogs/2690-90-gallon-vivarium-construction-progress.html Seems like a really smart way to tackle humidity.

Not to take too much from dart frogs, but for redfoots I also like the idea of having a gravel/false bottom drainage layer. Lets the substrate stay dry, but you can basically mist the enclosure as much as you need to get humidity up.


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## Yvonne G (Feb 18, 2011)

I know and I understand, but...

I would much rather see people spend their time and energy on making that perfect OUTDOOR tortoise habitat.

Far as I'm concerned, turtles and tortoises belong outside in natural settings.

(Holds arms up to protect her head!  )


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## CtTortoiseMom (Feb 18, 2011)

emysemys said:


> I know and I understand, but...
> 
> I would much rather see people spend their time and energy on making that perfect OUTDOOR tortoise habitat.
> 
> ...



I actually agree but our girl fell into our lap so we have to do everything we can to accomidate her needs.


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## jeffbens0n (Feb 18, 2011)

CtTortoiseMom said:


> I actually agree but our girl fell into our lap so we have to do everything we can to accomidate her needs.



Do you have any outdoor plans for Princess Leia yet this summer?


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## harris (Feb 18, 2011)

I would take the easy way out and open up my checkbook and ask Terry O to send me an exact duplicate of one of hers.


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## Kristina (Feb 18, 2011)

I built a misting system into my Manouria enclosure. Pics to come soon


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## Balboa (Feb 18, 2011)

Hehe, 
You know I sit there at times and think about just HOW I'd like to accomplish many of those goals, Mark. All too often in fact.

Yvonne, you're absolutley right about outside time. Frankly though, that's only about 3 months out of the year for me. I need to ensure the other 9 months are at least almost as good as those three outdoors.


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## harris (Feb 18, 2011)

kyryah said:


> I built a misting system into my Manouria enclosure. Pics to come soon



Hmmmm....Maybe the fist meeting of The Arctic Tortoise Club should be at my house. Bring yer toolbox.


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## Kristina (Feb 18, 2011)

harris said:


> kyryah said:
> 
> 
> > I built a misting system into my Manouria enclosure. Pics to come soon
> ...



I have to say that I absolutely LOVE that you assume not only that I did it completely by myself BUT ALSO that I have my own toolbox... and you are 100% correct    

Okay now I will quit derailing Mark's thread


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## CtTortoiseMom (Feb 18, 2011)

jeffbens0n said:


> CtTortoiseMom said:
> 
> 
> > I actually agree but our girl fell into our lap so we have to do everything we can to accomidate her needs.
> ...



Oh yeah, big plans!! We cannot wait. If all goes well she may be able to start going out end of March and the weather could potentially stay nice through September. That would be aprox. 6 months outside time. In that time I want to grow a bunch of stuff for her to help her through the long winter indoors. We are also going to change the indoor enclosure while she is outside to make it bigger and add plants.


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## Madkins007 (Feb 18, 2011)

emysemys said:


> I know and I understand, but...
> 
> I would much rather see people spend their time and energy on making that perfect OUTDOOR tortoise habitat.
> 
> ...



I'm getting kinda tired of you guys from nice climates making snide comments to us poor cold folk in the rest of the world. (TOTALLY joking!) 

I figure here in Omaha, I should put about half my thoughts and efforts in each, but most of my money in the indoor one cuz the outdoor one barely needs light, heat etc.

It kind of bothers me when I see people whose entire indoor habitat is a big flat room with hide boxes and nothing to intellectually stimulate the animals or anything- like we can somehow 'warehouse' them for a few months and it is OK because they are outside the other months.

Of course, a thread on the 'perfect' OUTDOOR habitat might be interesting as well! Fountains/misting, naturalistic burrows, rotating growing zones, etc.


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## oscar (Feb 18, 2011)

Been kicking around the idea of redoing the indoor enclosure for my red foots for next winter. I have a room were I keep them and its about 10 by 12 feet.
I noticed at out local Menards store, (like home depot or lowes). They had a green house that was made out of the double walled clear lexan or plexiglass it looks like clear corragated box material, the frame was aluminum
with door and a couple of roof panels that opened. It was tall enough that you could walk in it. All I could think of is how something like this set up in the room would work out. I think it would hold the heat and humidity in well and if there was a mold issue the plastic could be wiped down easily. The cost was 380 for a 6 by 8 foot greenhouse but going to price the panels and figure the cost to make one from scratch.


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## Balboa (Feb 18, 2011)

I gotta admit, I like that idea Oscar.... space willing...

of course that could be set up outside as well with a heater for year round use too. In the long term a greenhouse is where my torts will be.


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## Edna (Feb 18, 2011)

My ideal indoor tortoise enclosure would include all of the things you listed, Mark. It would also have some of the floor area made of tile or other hard surface with in-floor heat in those areas, large enough to accomodate my patio table and some comfy chairs, paths from the kitchen, through the enclosure (which would be more like a garden room/enclosed patio) to the outside doors. I would include several separate planting areas with soil deep enough to sustain some larger plants. There would be separate areas for high-moisture plants such as ferns, as well as succulents that like dry roots but are happy with humid air, and plantings of grazing type things. Oh, I dream big!



Edna said:


> My ideal indoor tortoise enclosure would include all of the things you listed, Mark. It would also have some of the floor area made of tile or other hard surface with in-floor heat in those areas, large enough to accomodate my patio table and some comfy chairs, paths from the kitchen, through the enclosure (which would be more like a garden room/enclosed patio) to the outside doors. I would include several separate planting areas with soil deep enough to sustain some larger plants. There would be separate areas for high-moisture plants such as ferns, as well as succulents that like dry roots but are happy with humid air, and plantings of grazing type things. Oh, I dream big!



Oh! Lest I forget: the outside doors would open onto a tightly walled terrace, all tortoise-secure and everthing, for those rare days-weeks when it's warm enough for torts to go outdoors here.


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## jackrat (Feb 18, 2011)

Great thread! Informative. I'd like to take it even one step farther. What if you had walls that were actually giant flat screen TV's that broadcast jungle scenes on them?(This is for redfoots,mind you) And a digital sound system with hidden speakers to supply the soundtrack to the scenes. You could also have the smells of their habitat synthesized in a lab and released at regular intervals.You could even take it one step beyond and have artificial trees with servo controls linked to a timer that would release fruit at random intervals.Intellectual stimulation could be provided by mazes built into the layout of the room,soduko books,even "Masterpeice Theater" playing on a small TV inside one of the hides.Yes,I'm having a ball with this.Really slow treadmills,what do you think?


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## ALDABRAMAN (Feb 18, 2011)

emysemys said:


> I know and I understand, but...
> 
> I would much rather see people spend their time and energy on making that perfect OUTDOOR tortoise habitat.
> 
> ...



I also know and understand, bit I agree with emysemys. I really struggle with some of the set ups I have seem!


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## matt41gb (Feb 18, 2011)

jackrat said:


> Great thread! Informative. I'd like to take it even one step farther. What if you had walls that were actually giant flat screen TV's that broadcast jungle scenes on them?(This is for redfoots,mind you) And a digital sound system with hidden speakers to supply the soundtrack to the scenes. You could also have the smells of their habitat synthesized in a lab and released at regular intervals.You could even take it one step beyond and have artificial trees with servo controls linked to a timer that would release fruit at random intervals.Intellectual stimulation could be provided by mazes built into the layout of the room,soduko books,even "Masterpeice Theater" playing on a small TV inside one of the hides.Yes,I'm having a ball with this.Really slow treadmills,what do you think?



Nice! I can tell you spent a lot of time on that one, Jeff. Haha!

-Matt


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## Madkins007 (Feb 19, 2011)

There is a pair of really interesting books- Nomadic Furniture and Nomadic Furniture 2 by James Hennesy and Victor Pappenick. One of the books has this idea- room cubes. You make a box frame of 2x4's and hang your art and build your furniture in the framework. Originally, this let you create and decorate a bad room (dorm, apartment) without putting nails in the walls, etc. They do stuff like a "adult treehouse" in one- sling seats, hammock, shelving, etc. 

The way it could work for us- build the cube- up to 8x8x8'. Put in a base of some rigid insulation to insulate the floor, then a 'bathtub', then racks for lighting or to hold misters, etc. Wrap with plastic sheeting- multiple layers of needed for insulation. Make a simple door or install a cheap storm door. 

You could add a small fan to circulate the air, especially from high to low. Banks of lights on timers, hydroponic farmed foods, incubators and hatchling habitats on shelving, etc. Do it in a basement and raise the floor a bit and you could run a line to the drain, and maybe even another line from a faucet for watering, misting, etc.

Do it right and it can also raise foods for the tortoises and the family!


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## terryo (Feb 19, 2011)

My friend had a lovely room like this in his basement where he grew his favorite "plants". I wish I had pictures. I used to think "what I could do with a room like this for my tortoises and boxies." Unfortunately he moved....with the help of local authorities.


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## Kristina (Feb 19, 2011)

Oh no Terry LMAO.....


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## Yvonne G (Feb 19, 2011)

terryo said:


> My friend had a lovely room like this in his basement where he grew his favorite "plants". I wish I had pictures. I used to think "what I could do with a room like this for my tortoises and boxies." Unfortunately he moved....with the help of local authorities.



Oh-h-h! "Those" kinds of plants!


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## Madkins007 (Feb 19, 2011)

LOL Terry! We were watching something... 'Weeds' maybe and I kept thinking the same thing! "I could do Leopards, big breeding groups..."


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## Jacqui (Feb 19, 2011)

emysemys said:


> terryo said:
> 
> 
> > My friend had a lovely room like this in his basement where he grew his favorite "plants". I wish I had pictures. I used to think "what I could do with a room like this for my tortoises and boxies." Unfortunately he moved....with the help of local authorities.
> ...



 Those pretty plants!


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## jackrat (Feb 19, 2011)

Jacqui said:


> emysemys said:
> 
> 
> > terryo said:
> ...


I'll plead the fifth.


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## -ryan- (Feb 24, 2011)

I believe the enclosure I am currently building at my new house is my ideal indoor enclosure. It measures 8' long and 4' wide. The enclosure itself is only 12" tall, however it sits on top of a pedestal that is around 40" tall.

The surfaces clean easily (using heavy-duty melamine and siliconing all the corners), It has two nesting areas, each consisting of a 3'x2'x8" bin set into the floor (so that it is flush with the rest of the enclosure floor), and it has removable dividers that can separate it into two 4'x4' enclosures, a 4'x4', 4'x18", and 4'x30" enclosure, two 4'x30" and two 4'x18", or of course the full 8'x4'. It is for my russian tortoises.

Some other benefits: I built it super heavy duty, with 4x4's and carriage bolts, so it is here to stay. It is also on some heavy duty casters so that I can get behind it and under it to clean and reach otherwise hard to reach places. The pedestal is built to accommodate my red footed tortoise's 6' vision enclosure. Perhaps the coolest part, however, is that my fiancee's dad has installed two designated circuits for the main tortoise room/breeding room. One is live 24/7 and goes to four electrical outlets in the room. The other goes through a timer, then to ten electrical outlets. That way I can just plug my lights into the wall, and they will turn on in the morning and off at night.

The best thing is the project is funded by money made from selling hatchlings.


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