# Commercial diets? and other food Q's



## Thalia (Mar 26, 2008)

I'm getting redfoots. Are any commercial diets recommended? I realise that I will need to feed my babies fresh food for the most part, however I like the idea of a "complete" commercial food, just to ensure I'm not inadvertently feeding them a deficient diet. I know you really can't believe what manufacturers say, so I thought I'd ask you all if there's anything you would recommend.
Also, I will be bringing back pellets for my new cockatiel (vet school is a fabulous opportunity to expand my zoo  ) are these ok to give to the torts on occasion? the pellets I'm bringing back are Garden Goodness by Zupreem, they've got dried bell pepper, peas, tomatoes and apples as well as "nutritious nuggets" with no artificial colours, would it be ok to offer this to my little guys if I add a little warm water and make it into mash? I also have access to an organic hermit crab food store, she makes all her own food and has lots of tasty options, the foods are dehydrated and either ground or chopped finely (http://www.thehappyhermitcrab.com/) they're all fruits and veggies and even some seafoods and bugs (crickets, mealworms etc) as well as juice soaked cuttlebone. 
Speaking of cuttlebone, will I need to bring down a calcium supplement, or can I just shave cuttle bone onto my tort's food? Is there a preferred method of giving calcium supplement?
Any other good food tips for a newbie?


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## Itort (Mar 27, 2008)

The commercial foods are for the most part formulated for all tortoises, which is the same as a universal food for dogs, cats, and ferrets. The best diet for redfoots has to be formulated at home for their dietary needs. You feed different tortoises differently. A good diet can be found on www.redfoots.com. The basic diet is greens, fruits, and some protein. The things you listed could be used on a limited basis as treats. If you want you can put a cuttlebone in with your tort, it will knaw on it periodically.


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## Itort (Mar 27, 2008)

I see you are in the Caribbean and an article on feeding RFs that references some native foods of these guys that we on the mainland have limited or no access to. www.tortoisetrust.org/articles/feeding_redfoots.html


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## Thalia (Mar 27, 2008)

oh wow, thanks for the resources. I was planning on giving them a little of whatever I eat every night, but I guess I'm going to have to make a feeding schedule for them. I'll have to see if I can find some of those "better" greens at the farmers market, since I rarely find anything but romaine lettuce in the store. I'll also have to figure out how to covertly steal hibiscus leaves/flowers from the trees in the tortoise enclosure at school


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## Itort (Mar 27, 2008)

Where in the Caribbean will you be ? I think alot of the tropical fruits (with the exception of citrus) would be very welcome to the little guys. Truthfully, I'm jealous of your opportunity to get what is likely closer to their native diet then the rest of us.


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## Thalia (Mar 27, 2008)

I'm on the island of St. Kitts, unfortunately the tortoises here are not native, they were imported at some point in time from the mainland. However mangoes, papaya, pineapple and a lot of more exotic fruit like golden apple, star fruit, christophine (squash-type thing) and passion fruit grow here on the island. Unfortunately the apartment I'm living in next semester has no fruit trees  But I know someone who does have fruit trees and the farmer's market has tons of neat produce. The people here say that there are "seasons" for things, but I think that really, each tree has its own season depending on when it was planted lol. There have been pineapple, papaya, plantain and oranges available every week since I got here in January. Mangoes seem to be available often too  
Does anyone know if christophine aka chayote squash is safe for the torts? 
What about cooked sweet potato or pumpkin? (I know raw sweet potato is bad for some types of animals like birds)
I know bananas aren't great, but what about plantain? Raw or cooked?
These are things, in addition to bell peppers, broccoli and cauliflower that I can find with certainty all the time


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## Itort (Mar 27, 2008)

Well, being from the midwest I'm unfamiliar with a majority of the tropical fruits but I know papaya is fantastic for redfoots (I feed it whenever it's available), pineapple is good, mango is good and the christophine sounds real promising (fruit, leaves,and roots). I'd hesitant about the tropical plantain. The peppers,broccoli, and cauliflower wouldn't feed. Passionfruit is one the plants Pritchard speaks of as native food for RFs. I'd suggest researching the latin names Pritchard lists and crossing them to common names. I think you'll find you are in RF paradise.


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## Thalia (Mar 27, 2008)

ok will do! I have a whole week off coming in April (between semesters) so I can do a little research then  I'm finishing off regular exams right now and then will be preparing for finals, so I won't have a heck of a lot of time to do research b/w now and then. I mostly wanted to know what I'll need to buy off island for them. By the sounds of it I won't need any off island foods


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## Redfootedboxturtles (Mar 27, 2008)

"complete" commercial food for tortoises are mostly soy = (


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## Thalia (Mar 28, 2008)

yes, I had noticed that too, which is why I asked. I know with other animal feeds (mammalian to be exact) soy is considered a high quality source of protein and if the whole seed is used and not the extrude then it's also a good source of fats. I wasn't sure whether tortoises handle plant protein the same way. In the nutrition course I'm in we were told that corn and soy were excellent sources of digestible energy/protein for domestic mammals (dog/cat/cow/horse) however I still feed my cats a mostly meat based kibble, because I have a hard time believing that an obligate carnivore that lacks a lot of the duodenal enzymes to process plants is able to optimally digest plants to get what they need from them. Being that tortoises are herbivore/omnivore (which is part of my attraction to them, no whole prey) I was wondering if they were better equipped to digest the plant based diets.


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## Itort (Mar 28, 2008)

Soy protein is not an ideal source. www.tortoisetrust/articles/Feeding__FAQ.htm


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## Redfootedboxturtles (Mar 28, 2008)

Corn isnt that great either. If you are looking for convenience make a little window box and grow dandy lions in it . Just tare some off and toss it in there cage. Or grow hibiscus in your yard. Beautiful plant plus the leaves and flowers are one of the best foods for captive tortoises to eat.


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## Redfoot NERD (Mar 28, 2008)

Perhaps some day TRUE research on "forest/jungle" torts will surface.. or should I say be accepted by the "professor's" [ meaning those that profess ] to only find out that redfoot tortoises have in fact been known to be CARNIVOROUS!

Case in point:

A chicken breeder friend of mine asked me what would be a good source of animal protein for her redfoot. After I regained consciousness.. I asked *"WHAT"???!!!*.. go out to one of your barns and snatch up one of those chicks. Kill it and place it near one of your adults and see what happens!

She wrote back and said: "It was like a shark feeding.. they ate the WHOLE thing.. claws and all"!

Have you been studying my caresheets or following any of the threads on the redfoots.com forum Thalia?.. you'll find these Q?'s are answered for you there. 

The key to ( redfoot ) tortoise care is KISS.. Keep It Simple Sweety.. or in my case early on especially - KISStupid.

It doesn't get much better that grape leaves.. hibiscus leaves and blooms ( althea blooms especially ) .. dandelions and curly endive! At least twice a week a meal of fruit alone! ONLY what they can eat in 10 minutes.. once a day. Over-feeding is unhealthy.

All the variety is o.k. - but find the ones that have what they need [ and are readily available ] .. calcium.. fiber.. and animal protein. KISS

Your redfoot's and you will be much happier when you do.


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## Thalia (Mar 28, 2008)

I have read through your websites, but I like to get a variety of information from many sources, especially because I'm concerned that I may not be able to get dandelion greens (they don't grow here) or curly endive. Apparently one store in town sells spring mix on Fridays, so I'm going to have to try to get there every friday. I got in contact with the researcher here who works with sea turtles and is partly responsible for the tortoise enclosure too, and she's going to send me some info too


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## Redfoot NERD (Mar 28, 2008)

Make it as complex as you like Thalia...

The more you research the more conflicting info you will get.


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## Thalia (Mar 29, 2008)

I'm not making it complex, I'm trying to make sure I have other options if the one store on the island that supposedly sells spring mix doesn't get their shipment a few weeks in a row. St. Kitts is a 3rd world country and an island so everything is imported, to give you an idea about the reliability of groceries, I like to make nachos, I've lived here since the end of December, the store where I shop has had tortilla chips 4 times since I moved here... 

I don't want to say I'm going to feed them they way your websites say to, then get caught with nothing to feed them because a hurricane has stopped shipments of food, or something. I don't think that having excess information is ever a bad thing, but being under prepared definitely is.


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## Redfootedboxturtles (Mar 29, 2008)

Thalia what local greens are grown on your island? You need to find some dandy lion seeds, they will grow down there. Do things have to go threw customs on your island?


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## Thalia (Mar 29, 2008)

dandelions do not grow here, I haven't seen them and I will absolutely not import any seeds. The sugar cane which now grows wild is bad enough, I don't need to wreck the ecosystem by importing dandelion lol 
There is tamarind, a few different varieties, bermuda grass (I think), lots of hibiscus, there's a whole "toxic plant garden" with things like Mango and aloe vera and oh goodness tons of different local and non-native plants that are all labelled. I might run down there and jot down some names and find out if they're actually toxic to tortoises. Unfortunately I'm not real familiar with plants so I'm not good at saying, OH that's a that tree. My photobucket account is full of "pretty pink flowers" lol ooh they have bougainville and giant milkweed, which must be like regular milkweed b/c the monarchs lay eggs on them.


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## Redfootedboxturtles (Mar 30, 2008)

Just feed them hibiscus, and some fruit a few times a week and a protein once a week. Thats all you need and trust me they wont get bored with that.


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## Thalia (Mar 30, 2008)

ok  hopefully I'll figure out the quirks of the grocery stores here and all this worry will have been for naught


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## Itort (Mar 31, 2008)

Thalia said:


> ok  hopefully I'll figure out the quirks of the grocery stores here and all this worry will have been for naught


Do they have any local markets, produce stands, or farmers markets there ? The locals must depend on a source besides the mainland. I suggest you research the local produce and it's nutrients.
Keep one thing in mind, the caresheets you are reading are written for we keepers who live in a temperate climate. You are on an island that RF's were introduced onto in the 1600s and became established. They are eating and breeding on the native flora. Ask around to the residents and see if they can give you observations.


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## Itort (Mar 31, 2008)

Itort said:


> Thalia said:
> 
> 
> > ok  hopefully I'll figure out the quirks of the grocery stores here and all this worry will have been for naught
> ...


Here's a link. www.chelonia.org/articles/nutrientanalysis.htm. Most of the foods listed are temperate but there are also some tropical, i.e mango, papaya, and figs.


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## -EJ (Apr 2, 2008)

I'm a very strong advocate of Mazuri tortoise diet.

What's interesting about this thread is that the OP is probably more qualified to answer their own question than anyone else who has posted.

I've tried to look into nutrition to see if I could figure it out... I gave up. I decided to trust those who really do know what they are talking about.

I have a Rottie (I know... not a tortoise) who gets fed an exclusively pelleted diet... IAMS... She is 10 and looks like 5 years old.

There are a few species of tortoises that I feed the Mazuri diet exclusively... the results are amazing.

Hey... I'm a simple minded person... results I can understand... theory... is just that... theory.

What's really ironic is those against commercial diets have never used it themselves for any length of time. Those that have used the stuff are usually supporters of these diets.


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## Redfootedboxturtles (Apr 2, 2008)

EJ, what tortoises do you feed Mazuri exclusivly to? Talai in another thread asked about feeding tortoises rice and nuts. What is your opinion on those food items? Also what is the differnce if any from Mazuri and Pretty Pets Tortoise Pelletes ( Those long colored things that look like puffy Cheetoes)


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## -EJ (Apr 2, 2008)

Golden Greeks, Chacos, Hingebacks, Egyptians, Stars, Pancakes, Flattails, Leopards, Spiders, Libyan greaca... I think that's it. 

I realized that I did not post my manufactured diet post on this list. I'll try to repost it here.

I can't comment on Pretty Pets because I don't know anything about the product but I recently got an adoption which was raised on the product and the shape of the animal is amazing.

Rice and nuts... humm... interesting... starch, protein, oil... are the components that come to mind. The oil I don't think is good.





Redfootedboxturtles said:


> EJ, what tortoises do you feed Mazuri exclusivly to? Talai in another thread asked about feeding tortoises rice and nuts. What is your opinion on those food items? Also what is the differnce if any from Mazuri and Pretty Pets Tortoise Pelletes ( Those long colored things that look like puffy Cheetoes)


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## Redfootedboxturtles (Apr 2, 2008)

I would think the rice would expand in the stomach, causing problems.

If you check out the sulcatas in some of the pics I posted here, they ate their share of pretty pets tortoise food. And look amazing. I dont really feed it to them any more becasue it costs to much.


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## Crazy1 (Apr 2, 2008)

Here is the info link for Mazuri. Just click on the tort food for ingrediants and info.
I spoke with one of the sales Reps and they actually are used in Zoos
http://www.mazuri.com/Home.asp?Products=2&Opening=2

and Here is the one for Pretty Pets. Just click on More info tab.
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=6016+7891+6447&pcatid=6447


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## -EJ (Apr 2, 2008)

Why would you think this?... call me ignorant...



Redfootedboxturtles said:


> I would think the rice would expand in the stomach, causing problems.
> 
> If you check out the sulcatas in some of the pics I posted here, they ate their share of pretty pets tortoise food. And look amazing. I dont really feed it to them any more becasue it costs to much.


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## Itort (Apr 2, 2008)

Ed, you're I think you are missing the point here. This person is living on a Carribean island, an independent nation with import duties ect, who can not depend on a constant source vegetibles in the grocery and can't afford to ship in petfood not in wide demand in this culture. She is trying to find local sources of food for her Redfoot tortoise. I am trying to help her find some. Now one thing I do want to point out is this island, St. Kitts, has supported Redfoot tortoises for approximately 400 years longer than Purina Mills (Mazuri) has been in existence. The food is there, she just needs to recognize it.


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## Crazy1 (Apr 2, 2008)

Perhaps when they said rice they meant cooked rice. Which will not expand.


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## -EJ (Apr 2, 2008)

There seems to be a few points here.

To the OP... get a house and let the tortoise roam. RFs are well established in the Carrib.

I'm sorry... feed it grasses.

Your comment is an obvious slant on your opinion.

Again... I don't have a clue.






Itort said:


> Ed, you're I think you are missing the point here. This person is living on a Carribean island, an independent nation with import duties ect, who can not depend on a constant source vegetibles in the grocery and can't afford to ship in petfood not in wide demand in this culture. She is trying to find local sources of food for her Redfoot tortoise. I am trying to help her find some. Now one thing I do want to point out is this island, St. Kitts, has supported Redfoot tortoises for approximately 400 years longer than Purina Mills (Mazuri) has been in existence. The food is there, she just needs to recognize it.


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## Redfootedboxturtles (Apr 2, 2008)

If its rice mixed with nuts and fruit I doubt it is a cooked item. More like a trail mix. At least thats what I thought when I read it. Doesnt seem like they can keep cooked rice as a packaged item.


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## -EJ (Apr 2, 2008)

and you know this is bad for the tortoise... how?





Redfootedboxturtles said:


> If its rice mixed with nuts and fruit I doubt it is a cooked item. More like a trail mix. At least thats what I thought when I read it. Doesnt seem like they can keep cooked rice as a packaged item.


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## Redfootedboxturtles (Apr 2, 2008)

Its makes birds explode. Or is that just a myth.


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## -EJ (Apr 2, 2008)

the nuts or the rice????

I really don't know how to respond to this.

Anyway... I use Mazuri with remarkable results... the rice and the nuts... another story which I know nothing about.




Redfootedboxturtles said:


> Its makes birds explode. Or is that just a myth.


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## jackflash (Jun 26, 2008)

-EJ said:


> I'm a very strong advocate of Mazuri tortoise diet.
> 
> What's interesting about this thread is that the OP is probably more qualified to answer their own question than anyone else who has posted.
> 
> ...


I couldn't agree with you more. Throwing a few flowers and some fruit du jour is an over simplification of feeding a tortoise.


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## jackflash (Jul 16, 2008)

Thalia said:


> I'm getting redfoots. Are any commercial diets recommended? I realise that I will need to feed my babies fresh food for the most part, however I like the idea of a "complete" commercial food, just to ensure I'm not inadvertently feeding them a deficient diet. I know you really can't believe what manufacturers say, so I thought I'd ask you all if there's anything you would recommend.
> Also, I will be bringing back pellets for my new cockatiel (vet school is a fabulous opportunity to expand my zoo  ) are these ok to give to the torts on occasion? the pellets I'm bringing back are Garden Goodness by Zupreem, they've got dried bell pepper, peas, tomatoes and apples as well as "nutritious nuggets" with no artificial colours, would it be ok to offer this to my little guys if I add a little warm water and make it into mash? I also have access to an organic hermit crab food store, she makes all her own food and has lots of tasty options, the foods are dehydrated and either ground or chopped finely (http://www.thehappyhermitcrab.com/) they're all fruits and veggies and even some seafoods and bugs (crickets, mealworms etc) as well as juice soaked cuttlebone.
> Speaking of cuttlebone, will I need to bring down a calcium supplement, or can I just shave cuttle bone onto my tort's food? Is there a preferred method of giving calcium supplement?
> Any other good food tips for a newbie?


 Zoo Med has just come out with "Natural Forest Tortoise Food" that has pellets of compressed grasses and veggies,at least 30 different plants. I don't work for Zoo Med,but the ingredient list is impressive. Google it and check it out. Good luck,jackflash.


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## jackflash (Jul 16, 2008)

Redfootedboxturtles said:


> "complete" commercial food for tortoises are mostly soy = (



But it's the lord's soy and is perfect isn't it?


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## jackflash (Jul 16, 2008)

-EJ said:


> the nuts or the rice????
> 
> I really don't know how to respond to this.
> 
> ...


My dog has eaten a rice and lamb based food for 11 years and although he's gained weight he hasn't exploded yet. Not counting farts which could be considered explosions.


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## -EJ (Jul 16, 2008)

I don't know the products you are using but products like Mazuri are not mostly soy. Soy byproducts such as the hulls... fiber... could be considered a good portion.

Ed



Redfootedboxturtles said:


> "complete" commercial food for tortoises are mostly soy = (


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