# plants in enclosure



## borjawil (Nov 17, 2010)

Well Im making plans for building a new indoor enclosure and was wondering about plants. I heard plants from stores have chemicals and such harmful to a tort. Also that they take months to leave the plant. So keeping them out of reach in pots is best. Although the leaves could reach to the bottom of the enclosure or get knocked over. 
I heard of using top soil mixed with coir or the like. Is there a certain top soil to use? Im guessing one without additives. I figured i'd plant seeds and grow plants in the enclosure ahead of getting the turtle. any problems in doing this? Has anyone done this successfully before? any tips? what types of plants.


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## onarock (Nov 17, 2010)

The issue isnt the fertilizer leaving the plant, that process actually happends quite quickly as in days not months. The issue with potted store bought plants is the availability of fertilizers to the plant. Store bought potting mix sold under brand names like Miracle Grow, Supersoil, Scotts and Kellogs usually contain either organic material such as manure, bat guano, worm castings and fish emulsions or chemical fertilizers. The same goes for stort bought greens. There are some in here that to me seem to hold their tortoises food supply to a higher standard than their own. Store bought plants much like store bought greens are actually fed much of the same stuff and you never hear people saying "I wouldnt put greens that I bought at the store in with my tortoises". My question is why not? Other than the medium (perlite, vermiculite, manure, etc. you get the point) whats the difference? The answer is, unless your getting your food greens from an organic store or farm, then not much. Non organic fertilizer is still non organic fertilizer no matter how you look at it, beit in your salad or on your shelf its all the same. Now, we can get into the whole "commercial pesticides for table food and ones for ornamentals" and what constitutes systemic and non systemic pest control, but we can save that one for later. People get all confused when they look at their freshly bought house plants and see vigorous growth because and only because of the availability of nutrients. Give that plant straight water for a month and watch it start to turn yellow. I can hear the I told you so's as I type, "it does take a month for the nutrints to pass through the plant". Again, I say no. What is happening is that the plants root system is seeking out nutrients not yet used or washed through it's container. When I was a kid my mom would never fertilize plants she would just transplant them. If she saw a yellowing plant she would say "that plant needs a bigger pot" (does this sound familiar to anybody?). And, in all actuality, she was helping the plant but not in the way she thought she was. 
When using plants as decor in a terratium I would say this... The mixing of the things that keep plants alive at the soil level, are not good for tortoises even if its organic.


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## Marty333 (Nov 18, 2010)

Onarock I was wondering if I can plant some seeds in miracle grow potting soil I understand that it contains fertilizer but Im pretty sure the greens at the super market were grown with fertilizers and such. I am not going to put the plants in the enclosure so Chevy wont be able to eat the soil. What is your opinion on this?


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## borjawil (Nov 18, 2010)

Yea I guess the same question as marty can we use any tops soils from stores in our enclosure to plant plant in?


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## chairman (Nov 18, 2010)

It is generally recommended that if you must use a soil containing fertilizer, you only use soils that contain "organic" fertilizers like manure, worm castings, etc. If you use a soil with a synthetic fertilizer, make sure that the soil is designed for growing fruits/veggies for human consumption. The bag should be labeled as such. Standard soil fertilizers for non-food plants may not be safe for consumption, human or tortoise.


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## borjawil (Nov 18, 2010)

ok Well my next question is what plants/flowers are ok for a tort- specifically a redfoot. I have some left over seeds from gardening- sunflowers, marigolds, a mix of wild flowers, and morning glory. 

Also this is the leftover soil i have. Its Gummer's All purpose potting soil. It says it contains only natural soil products heres a link to it. http://www.gummerpeat.com/reg potting soil.htm


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## onarock (Nov 18, 2010)

Wow where to begin. I have soooo much to say on this issue that I think its best that I just answer questions so I wont have to subject you all to one of those "Balboa" type Posts. Ha. Balboa I love the one on lighting Its just that I could never organize my thoughts like that on paper and I suffer from writers envy........
Marty: 
1..you can use it, but to be on the safe side I wouldnt. Although I have never used MG potting soil I am familiar with it. I think it contains too much fertilizers for seeds or seedlings and I would worry about stunting or burning my plants. You might want to go with something like Sun Gro's - Sunshine Mix #4 basically peat moss, pearlite, dolomitic lime and a starting agent. If you cant find that then I would recommend mixing my own (we are talking about growing in containers right)
2..If your trying to grow your own "Chevy" food outdoors then thats awesome and your taking your tortoise husbandry to a higher level. GOOD FOR YOU!
3..Marty if we are talking Chevy food grown in containers outdoors than I would recommend using organic fertilizers. What constitutes organic is a whole other 3 page post by yours truly. Basically look for fertilizers with an OMRI tag on them. OMRI usually means certified organic, but then again explaining organic and inorganic and what everyone should know about them is a 3 page post. Offen there is VERY little difference between the two and I'll leave it at that.

Borjawil:
I would be careful when using any product with your tortoises and when it comes to soil then do your homework. Usually store bought soil will either list its ingredients on the bag or a web site. 

I'm going to have to disagree with Chairman in that I dont want my tortoises wallowing in the fecal matter of any animal or bug, organic or not at that high of a concentration not normally occuring in nature. Wich is what you find in bagged soil. These soil companies ammend or mix their procucts more suitable for the longevity of a plant not the well being of a tortoise.
Just my opinion. Hope it helped. -rock


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## borjawil (Nov 18, 2010)

well i found out marigolds and morning glory are not good for torts. I think the soil is fine for my tort since its organic and an all purpose meaning it should be ok for foods for consumption.


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## onarock (Nov 18, 2010)

borjawil said:


> well i found out marigolds and morning glory are not good for torts. I think the soil is fine for my tort since its organic and an all purpose meaning it should be ok for foods for consumption.



I went to the link you provided to see what is in that stuff and it was all pretty general. I didnt have time to look at the whole site but I will later. I dont want my tortoiss eating stuff like vermiculite and pearlite.


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## Turtulas-Len (Nov 18, 2010)

I have been making my own soil, What I use is peat moss,play sand or river sand,and aged leaf mulch I mix it until it feels right,it is never the same because the leaf mulch is always different, but I get the same results,Put several inches of the soil mix in first and then cover it with cyprus mulch so the torts can't reach the soil mix.As for the plants I use, They wont be good for everyone because most of them are for the Asian Forest Tortoises,But some are good for most tortoises. alocasia,colocasia,pohtos,philodendron,african violets,----cantaloupe,all types of squash, and cucumber started from seeds,---the african violets are the easiest because each leaf will give you another plant.(just cut it off and put the stem in water) I get weeds all year from the 16x24 ft covered turtle pen so no need to grow them inside. I use to cook the soil in the oven to kill everything in it but I stopped doing that years ago and never had a problem with the uncooked dirt. Hope this helps or gives some of you a different idea on how to set yours up. Len


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## terryo (Nov 18, 2010)

I use a mix of garden soil...no special one..sometimes Miracle Grow...whatever's on sale...peat moss, and cypress mulch. I plant the little plants right in their pots, (after I just let the water run through them for a bit), so I make the substrate deep enough so it covers the pot and comes up to the rim. I only water the plants and mist him and the plants when he comes out to eat. I've been doing this for over 30 years with my boxies, before I had a computer, and now I do the same for my Cherry Heads. Not telling you what to do, it's just what has worked for me.


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## onarock (Nov 18, 2010)

terryo said:


> I use a mix of garden soil...no special one..sometimes Miracle Grow...whatever's on sale...peat moss, and cypress mulch. I plant the little plants right in their pots, (after I just let the water run through them for a bit), so I make the substrate deep enough so it covers the pot and comes up to the rim. I only water the plants and mist him and the plants when he comes out to eat. I've been doing this for over 30 years with my boxies, before I had a computer, and now I do the same for my Cherry Heads. Not telling you what to do, it's just what has worked for me.



Right on Teryo, Can I ask how long your plants live like this? And how often do you have to change the plants out and is your enclosure indoors? -rock


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## terryo (Nov 18, 2010)

For my boxies, the plants just grow and I somethimes have to cut the tops. They really don't bother them. For my hatchling, Cherry Head, the same...he doesn't eat anything so they grow very well, and I have to cut some down.
Nor for Pio ...he's three...my Cherry Head, I put some plants in there and in about two days they are all gone, and I have to put more. He will eat everything in site, so I have to be careful about what I put in there. Right now there is only a little Rose of Sharon tree and he can't reach the leaves so it's still there. I love plants in the enclosure for the little guys because it really keeps the humidity high.


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## onarock (Nov 18, 2010)

terryo said:


> For my boxies, the plants just grow and I somethimes have to cut the tops. They really don't bother them. For my hatchling, Cherry Head, the same...he doesn't eat anything so they grow very well, and I have to cut some down.
> Nor for Pio ...he's three...my Cherry Head, I put some plants in there and in about two days they are all gone, and I have to put more. He will eat everything in site, so I have to be careful about what I put in there. Right now there is only a little Rose of Sharon tree and he can't reach the leaves so it's still there. I love plants in the enclosure for the little guys because it really keeps the humidity high.



Thats awesome. I can just see that little cherry head eating everything and looking up at that rose or sharon and thinking "what the heck". Its amaizing their different personalitys. Do they care about the lenghts we go through to make a nice environment for them? Not one bit and I love it. I have 2 little red foots and I am just starting to plant some stuff in their brand new enclosure. So I put up this little 4" fence around my plants and I go back outside 20 min later and one of them has climed the fence flipped over on the otherside upside down eating the clover I just planted. For a split second I was disappointed and then I had to laugh.
Like I said I am in the infintile stages of my redfoot pen. I'll post some pics of what Ive done do for and its not much. I am still waiting for some little plants to root and I still need to ad some terracing and substrate behnd and in their large hide so I can add more plants. I am using a 4 foot across round bin. I filled the bottom 3 inches with 1" red cinder. I then added 4 inches of black cinder and ontop of that I have 5 inches of peat, sand topsoil mix. We get so much rain here that the substrate has to drain fast. I added a couple of drain holes in the tub and thats it. There is so much room in there that I think I'll just continue fencing sections off for plants untill they get established. In the pictures I have 2 types of clover, elephant grass seedlings and cactus..


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## terryo (Nov 19, 2010)

onarock said:


> terryo said:
> 
> 
> > For my boxies, the plants just grow and I somethimes have to cut the tops. They really don't bother them. For my hatchling, Cherry Head, the same...he doesn't eat anything so they grow very well, and I have to cut some down.
> ...



Is your enclosure outside? You're very lucky if you can keep him outside year round. My poor guys have to come in for the Winter. There's plenty of great things you can plant outside. I use the Christmas Tree storage bin for my hatchling when he was little, and will plant it again this Spring for my new one.


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## onarock (Nov 19, 2010)

Terry, yes I keep all my tortoises outside year round it never gets cold here. We do get lots of rain.


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## terryo (Nov 19, 2010)

You're so lucky to have your torts outside all year. The rain must be a bonus for your Redfoot. I always look forward to Spring to get my outdoor enclosurs ready for all my boxies and Pio....and now lil Solo. It's great fun for me, and them too.


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## onarock (Nov 19, 2010)

Thats a grat pic. Did you design that enclosure? If so can we see more pics? Or, ore they already posted somewhere?


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## terryo (Nov 19, 2010)

Here's some from the Summer. I don't know where they are on the site....maybe in enclosures.































This is his cave (hide).


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## onarock (Nov 19, 2010)

Those are some fantastic pictures terryo. Great design for the tropical species. I hope you dont mind, but I will be stealing some of your ideas for my redfoots when they get a bit older. I live at the edge of a rain forrest on the N.E side of Maui and we get about a 100" of rain a year so, I will definately be putting some of your ideas into play.


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## terryo (Nov 19, 2010)

Thank you very much for the nice compliments. What a wonderful place to live!! Don't forget to take plenty of pictures, so I can get some of your ideas too.


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