# CDT owner ~What if you HAD to move out of state



## Angi (Jun 9, 2011)

Hey Desert Tortoises owners,
What would you do if you had to move out of the state? Like if you had to take a job in Mississippi. Would you break the law and take your torts out of California or would you rehome them?

This is one of those things that I think about too much.

Thoughts please.


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## Laura (Jun 9, 2011)

id be tempted to break the law.. but scared to get caught and have them confiscated... 
so the best thing for the animals would be to re home them... hopefully with a friends who you can remain in contact with and trust.


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## Yvonne G (Jun 9, 2011)

You have to think of the best interests of the tortoise. For instance, if you were moving to a northern state, or Canada, your tortoise would be much better off in California where it can be outside for most of the year.

If you always keep the mind-set that the tortoise belongs to the state of California and you are just being allowed to care for it, then it would still hurt to have to give it up, but it would be a bit easier.

I know of a gal and her daughter who had 4 desert tortoises that they adopted from our chapter of CTTC. Things in her life changed and she ended up having to move to Colorado (from Calif). I told her she wasn't supposed to take the tortoises out of california and that I would be happy to find them new homes in the state, but she took them with her. She ended up losing all 4 of the tortoises to respiratory infections and they all died (at different times).

I know of someone else who took their desert tortoise to Florida and the tortoise died.

If you live in a state that's very humid or cold, and raise a desert tortoise from a hatchling so it can acclimate, chances are better for the tortoise to stay alive. But its very hard on an adult desert tortoise to move to a different climate.


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## ascott (Jun 9, 2011)

I have to say I agree totally with Yvonne.....I would have to take the welfare of the Desert Tortoise into account above all .....I would also of course cry and sob and swear no one else in the whole wide world would ever love them like I do (which would be true) but then I would get up off the ground...dust off the dirt wiped the tears and s'not from my face and be a big girl and focus on finding them the best person/organization in their home state to love them and take over their care....


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## dmmj (Jun 9, 2011)

One thing you have to remember is, I believe it is a felony, not just a slap on the wrist type of crime.


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## HLogic (Jun 9, 2011)

They get you with a double-whammy felony... Endangered Species and Lacey Acts. But the max penalty (back in 90-something) is only $250,000 and 10 years per offense (i.e. per tort) - I think that's just the Lacey Act violation, the ESA violation could double that.


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## Angi (Jun 9, 2011)

Okay I get the point. Lets hope I never have to leave , because I would have to always do what is best for my torts even if it broke my heart.


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## Torty Mom (Jun 9, 2011)

Cry and cry and cry. No way I would leave California! I like it here smog and all!  I do hate Bakersfield though!!!


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## Angi (Jun 10, 2011)

I live in a part of California that I love. To me it is almost perfect, but I may have to leave. No offense to people that live in the South, but I have been there and don't care for it, so going from S. Cali to THE SOUTH could be very hard for me. Leaving my torts is just the icing on the cake that could send me over the edge.


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## Torty Mom (Jun 10, 2011)

UHHHHHH, Angi, if you don't mind my asking, why would you have to move?


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## Tom (Jun 10, 2011)

I have also observed that CDT's don't do well in non-desert climates. If I was going from CA to MS, I'd leave them in the CA desert area. (I mean with a competent keeper, NOT to release them.)

How do you like redfoots or Cherryheads? Sulcatas?


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## Angi (Jun 10, 2011)

@ Mary Anne My husband has been offered a pretty good job.

@ Tom Iwould try to find them a home with a TFO member. I already told my husband I would have to leave my CDT so he would have to get me a Redfoot. I would be afraid to take on a Sulcatas.

He is leaning towrard staying , but it is a good position so I think he should take it. I didn't mention that my oldest son would stay to finnish high school and that I may stay for another year too. That is what is holding my husband back. He is a very involved dad. Oh and he is not crazy about the South either. LOL teenagers are harder to rehome HaaHa....


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## dmmj (Jun 10, 2011)

Angi said:


> @ Mary Anne My husband has been offered a pretty good job.
> 
> @ Tom Iwould try to find them a home with a TFO member. I already told my husband I would have to leave my CDT so he would have to get me a Redfoot. I would be afraid to take on a Sulcatas.
> 
> He is leaning towrard staying , but it is a good position so I think he should take it. I didn't mention that my oldest son would stay to finnish high school and that I may stay for another year too. That is what is holding my husband back. He is a very involved dad. Oh and he is not crazy about the South either. LOL teenagers are harder to rehome HaaHa....


Plus there is no teenagerforum to help you find them new homes


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## Angi (Jun 10, 2011)

Boy could I use a teenagerforum.org right now. My great kid had turned into someone I don't even know in the last few months.


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## Maggie Cummings (Jun 10, 2011)

I personally would take the tortoise with me and I wouldn't even think twice about it. I get very emotionally involved with my animals and I wouldn't leave them with someone else...


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## Torty Mom (Jun 10, 2011)

Angi said:


> Boy could I use a teenagerforum.org right now. My great kid had turned into someone I don't even know in the last few months.



Yep, I have one of those also. Except mine turned 18 a few months ago and guess what happened???? He now knows everything! Amazing isn't it!! 

I would have your back and even give them back, if/when you came back!


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## Ruby's Mom (Jun 10, 2011)

I agree with Maggie. My pets are my babies and they go where I go. I honestly have no idea what all of you are talking about when you say you must leave your tortoise behind if you must move out of state. That in itself should be a felony, when tortoises are shipped all over this country. 

Some states are passing laws to make it illegal to own snakes. Here in PA it is illegal to to sell Degus, skunks, fox, sugar gliders, hedge hogs, Quaker Parakeets, racoons and prairie dogs. But you wouldn't believe the customers I get asking for these animals. including baby red-eared slider turtles. I can get 4 inch and larger. no, they want the tiny ones and they try to keep them that way by not supplying proper lighting and heat and that just upsets me. 

I also need a help group for being the mom of a teenager and a pre-teen. My son turns 16 next month and doesn't listen to a word I say, and my 12 year old daughter is even worse. My own mother thinks it;s hilarious actually. "it gets better" she says. She raised three of us. I saw how she fought with my sister, My brother didn't turn out too bad, I didn't think I gave her too much trouble being the baby and 7 years younger than my sister who was the middle child. 

I ask my son to clean his rabbit and guinea pig because they are starting to smell pretty ripe. He turns away from me and starts messing with his cars. (hot wheels and matchbox) I tell my daughter to clean her room and clean her ferrets and she slumps on her bed and waits for someone else to do it. so I threaten to take the ferrets away and she goes into a screaming fit. What did I do to deserve this?

Oh right back to the tortoise.... No, I do not think it is right to have to give up your tortoise after all the time and money and medical bills after raising it when you move. especially if it's somewhere that says no pets. Sorry, I'll look elsewhere. no-one is splitting up my family. But moving to another state? I don't understand. I've lived all my 35 years in Pennsylvania. the pet laws in this country suck if you really want my honest opinion.


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## Angi (Jun 10, 2011)

I think my husband is going to turn down the job offer because of our 17 year old son. My son started really acting like a teenager about 5 months ago. He wants to hang out with friends at night. I would like him home and in bed at 9pm, but I guess you have to let them grow up. He also doesn't think I know anything, and blames me for his being skinny. This is very hard for me because I am very in to eatting healthy. I can not help it if HE doesn't eat all the food I make him. He has rebelled against my morning smothie that I make for him to dring on the way to school. I make really good smothies so this is just a jab at me.

Anyway about the torts, they are California Desert tortoises and in California the laws are very strick with them. I would be tempted to take them (if I left) but I could not put their health at risk. If I were moving to Las Vegas or Ariziona I would probably take them but a humid place could cause heath problems and death.

I don't think I am going to have to move even though I am willing to. I am leaving it up to my husband and I don't think he can live away from us (the kids mostly) for a year.


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## Torty Mom (Jun 11, 2011)

@Ruby's Mom, here is some info for you to help you understand how serious it is. It's much bigger than just taking the tortie with you and a state law. They are endangered, federally protected and require permits. The fines are HUGE we are talking $250,000 AND jail time, FELONY jail time. So no we are not being bad tortie parents by saying we would not take them with us, the risk out weighs the emotions on that one. You can also get into BIG trouble by not having them permitted. I believe that is $5,000 per tortie and JAIL time, and then to make matters worse they can confiscate your tortie!!! Not something I am really wanting to test! Lou has a permit, my hatchlings do not, BUT, mark my words as soon as they are 2 years old I WILL get them their proper permits. I love all my torties as much as my children, actually I have taken Lou to the vet more than my youngest son has been to the Dr. in the last six months! <UGH> Do I think Fish and game actively monitors and follows up on this stuff, no I do not. BUt, I feel if they come across a situation, I think they would act on it, especially is one of them is a butthead angry at the word. I will try to find a link for you. So, I hope you think better of us now!!! It's a scary situation to be in and no doubt a VERY, VERY hard choice to make. 

So Ruby's Mom, now that you know a little bit more about the situation, what would you do?


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## wrmitchell22 (Jun 11, 2011)

Torty Mom said:


> @Ruby's Mom, here is some info for you to help you understand how serious it is. It's much bigger than just taking the tortie with you and a state law. They are endangered, federally protected and require permits. The fines are HUGE we are talking $250,000 AND jail time, FELONY jail time. So no we are not being bad tortie parents by saying we would not take them with us, the risk out weighs the emotions on that one. You can also get into BIG trouble by not having them permitted. I believe that is $5,000 per tortie and JAIL time, and then to make matters worse they can confiscate your tortie!!! Not something I am really wanting to test! Lou has a permit, my hatchlings do not, BUT, mark my words as soon as they are 2 years old I WILL get them their proper permits. I love all my torties as much as my children, actually I have taken Lou to the vet more than my youngest son has been to the Dr. in the last six months! <UGH> Do I think Fish and game actively monitors and follows up on this stuff, no I do not. BUt, I feel if they come across a situation, I think they would act on it, especially is one of them is a butthead angry at the word. I will try to find a link for you. So, I hope you think better of us now!!! It's a scary situation to be in and no doubt a VERY, VERY hard choice to make.
> 
> So Ruby's Mom, now that you know a little bit more about the situation, what would you do?



Is this just for Desert Tortoises? I am curious if there is other legislation affecting Sulcata Owners in AZ? I know it is off topic, I apoligize. Good luck and I hope you don't have to relocate, no offense to anyone in MS, but my in-laws live there and I am not a fan. It is like stepping back into 1950, at least where I have been (picayune, hammond)


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## ascott (Jun 11, 2011)

The laws should be one aspect but the health and well being of the California Desert Tortoise....always. when you applied for the state permit and signed it you agreed to the state rules/regulations/laws and they do have guidelines for these guys ....as for the cost of care...really? We all know that with reptiles...heck with dogs, cats and any other pet...there are expenses that will arise...there are care costs and those you take on by housing your critter....I have a son and he costs money for the essentials...food, clothing,medical,dental, vision, video games, field trips etc....but if he moves I am not going to try to figure on collecting what I have spent LOL...

We each know how sad one would feel about the thought of having to find a home for one of our beloved Ca Desert Tortoise....and maybe naive or wishful thinking on my part...but I would like to think that the mass majority of members on this site are true and honorable to this and each and every other species.....

The Ca Desert Tortoise kept in captivity should never be released back into the wild (very sad to me but essential) CDT should never be encouraged or allowed to breed in captivity (it is not legal to knowingly house male/females together) there are so many in rescues that need a lifelong host..you can not legally sale a CDT (thank goodness) you are responsible for the well being of the CDT you host which includes housing/food/health care....sorry all, I get a bit preachy on the subject of our CDT


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## Torty Mom (Jun 11, 2011)

Great question Jenn! Each state is different, I am referring to California and Gopherus agassizii, native to California. I know Florida laws are stiff as well, I know nothing about AZ laws, I am sure someone else can chime in here with that info. In my OPINION it's usually involves native species and their protection thereof. Sorry, I'm not much help!


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## ascott (Jun 11, 2011)

Arizona too has the rules on the Desert Tortoise....I believe that in that state they only allow one permit per household...much more strict on that rule than California....


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## IntoTheWildReptiles (Jun 11, 2011)

Torty Mom said:


> Cry and cry and cry. No way I would leave California! I like it here smog and all!  I do hate Bakersfield though!!!



Agreed. I'm getting really tired of this town. If we had to move I would rehome our tort. I wouldnt take a chance with his health.


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## Yvonne G (Jun 11, 2011)

Are you in Bakersfield, Brandon?


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## Jacqui (Jun 11, 2011)

Angi said:


> Hey Desert Tortoises owners,
> What would you do if you had to move out of the state? Like if you had to take a job in Mississippi. Would you break the law and take your torts out of California or would you rehome them?
> 
> This is one of those things that I think about too much.
> ...



I do not currently have a CA DT, but did have the honor of being the last caretaker for one. Elmer lived thru two sets of owners, before we got the old man. Story was, he came from CA to Nebraska with the first couple. He lived here in Nebraska for many years (well over 50 but I would have to find the newspaper article to know for sure how much longer then that it was).

If it was me, I am taking my DT with me and take my chances on the legal part of it. Remember that is what I would do, no suggesting anybody to do anything illegal, you have to follow your own heart and mind. Just saying what I would do.


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## dmmj (Jun 11, 2011)

Jacqui said:


> Angi said:
> 
> 
> > Hey Desert Tortoises owners,
> ...


admit it , you were encouraging us all to break the law. 
As for fines for permits I don't think you will be fined for not getting a permit, the CF&G wants them registered but I don't think any legal action is taken if they are not, I am not 100 percent but I have not heard of anyone being fined for not having a permit. As far as I know any tortoise crossing state lines needs a health certificate from a vet.


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## Angi (Jun 11, 2011)

I have to say I think a move would be quite an adventure, but my son and the torts make it difficult. My husband is only thinking of my son. I would not sale my house though because I would have to be able to come back. We have an average house, but our morgage is low and it is everything I need. I love San Diego and would want to retire here. Bob and Shelby are great tortoises so I am sure I could find them a good home even though I would miss them. I have to put their well being ahead of my attachment to them. I still don't think my husband will take the job, but we will see.


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## ascott (Jun 11, 2011)

Bob and Shelby....great names


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## Angi (Jun 11, 2011)

Thanks. I am very into names. Everything has to have a fitting name. When they were tiny babies. Bob would bob his head when I rubbed it and Shelby had a shell that looked like someone had squeezed it when they picked her up. Also I liked the names. Shelby's shell is fine now. Also I have no idea what their sexes are, so Bob my turn in to a Bobara or Bobbie. Shelby can go either way.


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## IntoTheWildReptiles (Jun 12, 2011)

emysemys said:


> Are you in Bakersfield, Brandon?




Yes I am.


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## Angi (Aug 15, 2011)

Mississippi is back on the table. The company called my husband again. I guess the guy they hired when he turned it down didn't work out. I would stay here with the boys until the school year is over. My husband has not accepted , but he is thinking about it. It is a good stable company which is not easy to find right now. I am so sick of the stress he puts up with and affraid it is going to kill him. If I go I would be looking for a TFO member to adopt my sweet babies.. Is anyone looking to relocate to San Diego in a year LOL....I might have a house for rent that comes with torts


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