# Do You Say Something?



## bellyboo (Feb 27, 2013)

When you see someone who obviously has their tortoise (or turtle) in inappropriate housing do you say something? If yes, how do you so without coming off as rude or like a know-it-all?

I know of a person who has several tortoises and turtles and really hasn't done much for research on a proper setup. The turtles are in a MUCH too small aquarium and the tortoises have lived off of grocery store greens (i.e. lettuce) for quite some time now. Time and time again I've made (friendly) suggestions, sent article links, showed them my setup and even suggested visiting this forum and I get passed off as someone who is trying to act like I'm the better pet owner, when really I'm just concerned for the well being of this persons animals. 

And then there have been several instances where I've seen random setups in various places online and once in a pet store that were just horrific! I don't know any of these people personally, so I feel a bit bossy making suggestions, but at the same time I feel like I have to do _something_. Generally I comment along the lines of "That's a lovely tortoise you have there, but did you know if you blah, blah, blah you'll have an even better set up and s/he will be healthier?" This lead to eye rolls and yelling. 

The whole thing just infuriates me. I have loved tortoises and turtle my entire life and have wanted to own a tortoise for as long as I can remember...but I didn't. I wanted until I had the means to provide the best home I could. And I spent months reading every book and website on care I could find, researching breeds, and lurking on here so that I knew as much as I could before I even ordered my little guy. And then to see these people out there...buying them from pet stores and what not without having any idea about lighting, food, how much space they need, etc...it just makes me so sad.  

I'm sorry this kind of turned into rambling rant. It's something that has been on my mind for a while now and I was just wondering how others approach it. Thanks for any thoughts!


And I wanted to add that I am VERY thankful for this forum!  I'm not a huge poster, but I do read through tons of threads and love the information I get. This forum has been an extremely valuable resource in my first year as a tortoise parent.


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## Eloise's mommy (Feb 27, 2013)

Petsmart didn't like me telling them they gave me all wrong info from substrate to type of lights either....Just keep an open mind I know that we feel that the husbandry methods shared here are the best way to do things but when it comes to raising any animal everyone has a different idea of how to do it just like raising kids. Perhaps your friend is a good place to start but if they have owned theirs longer than you have owned yours maybe start by asking about the different things they've done get some "advice" from them and see where that leads..maybe your friend just sees their pets as animals and doesn't have the same passion for them as we have for ours. Good luck.


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## Arizona Sulcata (Feb 27, 2013)

To the everyday person, yes I tell them. Its best to take a positive approach rather than a negative one though and then your advise will more likely be taken to heart. Instead of telling them all the things they are doing wrong, tell them things they should be doing and explain why. I've never had anyone get upset for trying to help them.

For me with PetSmart and Petco its a little different considering I go around and work in their stores as a sales rep. This has its pros and cons. The con being I have to be careful what I say because I am a guest working in their store. On the flip side most of them have come to know me and trust my opinion and knowledge of the products. When this is the case I do make suggestions (as they all know I'm a breeder as well) and some have listened. My goal has been to change one store at a time!


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## bellyboo (Feb 27, 2013)

Eloise said:


> Petsmart didn't like me telling them they gave me all wrong info from substrate to type of lights either....Just keep an open mind I know that we feel that the husbandry methods shared here are the best way to do things but when it comes to raising any animal everyone has a different idea of how to do it just like raising kids. Perhaps your friend is a good place to start but if they have owned theirs longer than you have owned yours maybe start by asking about the different things they've done get some "advice" from them and see where that leads..maybe your friend just sees their pets as animals and doesn't have the same passion for them as we have for ours. Good luck.



Yeah, when I asked the pet store about the setup I got the evil eye and pretty much just went on my way. lol!

They have owned a shorter amount of time than me. I have had aquatic turtles for several years and they just got theirs a few months ago. Same with the tortoises...I have had mine one year and two months and they got theirs later. I know everyone is different, I guess it just saddens me when they aren't even open to suggestion, especially the aquatic turtles. It's kind of a touchy subject with me. My RES is nearly 3 pounds and 10" long. I rescued her from the shelter here. She was given up because the owners knew nothing about turtle care and she was being kept in a ONE gallon aquarium and couldn't even turn around and had zero basking.  I understand that people often don't realize how big these turtles can get, but that's why you should research before you buy!


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## wellington (Feb 27, 2013)

I have a little different point of view. Yes, you should say something. Wrong/bad husbandry is animal neglect. Now, like already said, there are more then one way to raise each species. Considering all the good ways, not the old incorrect bad ways, if they still don't meet the standard then after a few attempts of friendly persuasion and no changes you need to get tuff and to the point. Animal neglect is against the law and the animal can not speak for itself. We, animal lovers are their only voice. This goes for friends and non friends. If you say or do nothing, well, my personal opinion, your just as bad as they are. (Not meaning you in particular, but anyone in general that turns their head on animal abuse or neglect) As for your friend, take an opportunity to come on the forum together. Let him/her read some of the info from one of the members that they would consider an expert. Try to get them involved in TFO, by doing it together. If it doesn't work, well, then let them know you will turn them in for animal neglect, if that's what you think is going on. It should have to go that far unless they are total idiots. As for the pet stores, etc., contact the manager, if that doesn't work, contact the corporation.


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## bellyboo (Feb 27, 2013)

Arizona Sulcata said:


> To the everyday person, yes I tell them. Its best to take a positive approach rather than a negative one though and then your advise will more likely be taken to heart. Instead of telling them all the things they are doing wrong, tell them things they should be doing and explain why. I've never had anyone get upset for trying to help them.
> 
> For me with PetSmart and Petco its a little different considering I go around and work in their stores as a sales rep. This has its pros and cons. The con being I have to be careful what I say because I am a guest working in their store. On the flip side most of them have come to know me and trust my opinion and knowledge of the products. When this is the case I do make suggestions (as they all know I'm a breeder as well) and some have listened. My goal has been to change one store at a time!



I try my hardest to not come off as high and mighty. I promise! lol! Usually I will start out with a compliment and then add in a little "You know I was reading..." or something like that. I have found that suggesting actual articles works a lot a better because I can just pass them along as something I wanted to share.

The pet store is a small, local one that is just starting out. He is young and means well, so I'm hoping he is still learning. It's a very clean store with the most amazing fish tanks I've ever seen, so he may just be new to tortoise care. I haven't been back in recently.

Thanks for the reply! 




wellington said:


> * If you say or do nothing, well, my personal opinion, your just as bad as they are.* (Not meaning you in particular, but anyone in general that turns their head on animal abuse or neglect) As for your friend, take an opportunity to come on the forum together. Let him/her read some of the info from one of the members that they would consider an expert. Try to get them involved in TFO, by doing it together. If it doesn't work, well, then let them know you will turn them in for animal neglect, if that's what you think is going on. It should have to go that far unless they are total idiots. As for the pet stores, etc., contact the manager, if that doesn't work, contact the corporation.



My thoughts exactly. I'm a bit overly passionate when it comes to animals. Along with the tort and turtles we also have three dogs and two cats. All of our pets except my Hermann's and one dog were rescue animals, the most recent being an extremely abused dog. 

I honestly don't think they mean harm. More like just stubborn or maybe even taking on more than they can handle. I will keep with the positive suggestions and suggest the forum again as well. I had several times in the past, but I don't think they ever did anything.


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## wellington (Feb 27, 2013)

bellyboo said:


> Arizona Sulcata said:
> 
> 
> > To the everyday person, yes I tell them. Its best to take a positive approach rather than a negative one though and then your advise will more likely be taken to heart. Instead of telling them all the things they are doing wrong, tell them things they should be doing and explain why. I've never had anyone get upset for trying to help them.
> ...



With this particular pet store, print out some of the care sheets and feeding info on TFO and give them to the owner. Like, I did some research for you I thought you might like. Maybe only a couple at a time. Giving him a bunch of pages to read all at once, may make him just ignore them. Let him know about TFO and that he ca lurk around and read all the great stuff on here. That he doesn't have to join in order to learn what we have. Also, let him know, we would love to have a a other pet store owner join. Members would not have a problem recommending him, once we got to know him.


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## bellyboo (Feb 27, 2013)

[/quote]

With this particular pet store, print out some of the care sheets and feeding info on TFO and give them to the owner. Like, I did some research for you I thought you might like. Maybe only a couple at a time. Giving him a bunch of pages to read all at once, may make him just ignore them. Let him know about TFO and that he ca lurk around and read all the great stuff on here. That he doesn't have to join in order to learn what we have. Also, let him know, we would love to have a a other pet store owner join. Members would not have a problem recommending him, once we got to know him.
[/quote]

Awesome idea! Thanks so much!


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## wellington (Feb 27, 2013)

bellyboo said:


> Arizona Sulcata said:
> 
> 
> > To the everyday person, yes I tell them. Its best to take a positive approach rather than a negative one though and then your advise will more likely be taken to heart. Instead of telling them all the things they are doing wrong, tell them things they should be doing and explain why. I've never had anyone get upset for trying to help them.
> ...






I don't doubt they mean well. They may feel they are as passionate towards their animals as you are. No one that loves their animals, wants to be told they are doing something wrong by them. I get that. The bottom line though, if all else fails, the tuff love sorta speak, has to be done. It's for and about the animals. I totally agree on doing the educating as nice and friendly as you can. I have done it many times to Craigslist ads. I have had many thank me. I always start with something like, great looking tort/turt. Just want to let you know that the way we used to keep turts or torts has been changed and better, healthier ways have been found. Like, (then make your suggestions of what they need to change) Good luck. Keep on them though. You will feel better about everything, when they finally see the light and make the changes. The torts and turts will be forever great full


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## Rover15 (Feb 27, 2013)

Good info, I always talk to the two reptile stores near me about housing the one store's answer almost 100% of the time is we don't have the room for aa large set up but don't worry they sell fast (3 months later....) The other store is really great they welcome the info I have also told them about this site and I have since herd them mention it to other owners who have shown interest in their sulcata.

My big issue is with youtube "car videos" on one hand I don't post videos but I go there a lot watch videos of all sorts of things but I often find myself watching these "care" videos and just thinking really your teaching others how to do it wrong?


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## Cutva (Jul 10, 2013)

If I see someone I try to be nice but if they won't listen or that the hint eventually you might have to they them straight on.

Sent from my SCH-I510 using TortForum mobile app


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