# Applying oils on shells and body



## rolley

I had read some threads..that they apply coconut oils on the shells and massaging them with oils...is this a good practice ? Which oil or any thing else will be good for massaging them...if it's a good practice how often should I do this ?


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## TechnoCheese

rolley said:


> I had read some threads..that they apply coconut oils on the shells and massaging them with oils...is this a good practice ? Which oil or any thing else will be good for massaging them...if it's a good practice how often should I do this ?


I'm not sure if it's good or not, but the oil is cold pressed extra virgin coconut oil, I believe.


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## Big Charlie

If you let your tort roam outside after oiling, don't they end up caked with dirt?


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## GBtortoises

How often? Never. 

A layer of oil, creams or other coatings may inhibit the absorption of UVB for a tortoise. As well as dirt and debris being able to readily cling to the shell, particularly the areas within the scute seams, this can promote bacteria and fungal growth. This can lead to health problems for a tortoise.

There is no practical or beneficial reason to apply oils or anything else but water to a tortoise's shell.


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## Loritort

GBtortoises said:


> How often? Never.
> 
> A layer of oil, creams or other coatings may inhibit the absorption of UVB for a tortoise. As well as dirt and debris being able to readily cling to the shell, particularly the areas within the scute seams, this can promote bacteria and fungal growth. This can lead to health problems for a tortoise.
> 
> There is no practical or beneficial reason to apply oils or anything else but water to a tortoise's shell.



I don't think putting organic coconut oil on the torties shell once a month is harmful. It's moisturizing.


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## mike taylor

I wouldn't do this unless their shell scute s are growing wrong . Some times the scutes stick together. In the wild they don't have people oiling them down . If a health problem happened then yes help them . Will it hurt them ? Probably not but why waste money on oil . Buy them some thing like more food .


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## KevinGG

Loritort said:


> I don't think putting organic coconut oil on the torties shell once a month is harmful. It's moisturizing.



He didn't say it was harmful. He said it can pose health concerns. Tortoise shells don't need "moisturizing" if habitats are set up properly. Not worth risking the health of the tortoise.


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## Loritort

Ok. I put coconut oil on my buddies shell and it looks fantastic! I don't believe It's a health risk.


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## KevinGG

Loritort said:


> Ok. I put coconut oil on my buddies shell and it looks fantastic! I don't believe It's a health risk.



Again, not saying it DOES pose a health problem, but it definitely CAN. It hardly seems worth the risk for a shiny shell.


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## Loritort

KevinGG said:


> Again, not saying it DOES pose a health problem, but it definitely CAN. It hardly seems worth the risk for a shiny shell.



Perhaps you can have a drink and loosen up. It really isn't that big of a deal


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## KevinGG

Loritort said:


> Perhaps you can have a drink and loosen up. It really isn't that big of a deal



Well, it may or may not become a big deal. No way to know what will happen. We do know, however, that it does absolutely nothing for them.


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## Loritort

I use it on my little buddy who has an amazing shell. It's a choice and it's perfectly fine.


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## KevinGG

Loritort said:


> I use it on my little buddy who has an amazing shell. It's a choice and it's perfectly fine.



I'm guessing that you are equating a shiny shell with "an amazing shell". How reflective or clean a shell is is no indication of shell health. I keep responding to you because you continually express something along the lines of "it's perfectly fine". The truth is we have no evidence that oiling a shell does anything, but there are legitimate concerns. Whether or not they happen to your tortoise is beside the point. It's fine if you choose to oil your tortoise's shell, but stop espousing that choice as if it is backed up by any data. 

Now I'm done.


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## Loritort

Glad you're done! It isn't worth continuing this discussion over using coconut oil on a shell. Doom and gloom and worst case scenarios are unnecessary! Have a great night Kevin


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## GBtortoises

Loritort said:


> I don't think putting organic coconut oil on the torties shell once a month is harmful. It's moisturizing.


Why does a tortoise's shell need to be moisturized?


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## Loritort

I use it for my tortie and it works well. The shell appears on the dry side at times and the coconut oil gives it a nice glow. Since it isn't harmful to the tortoise,why is this so concerning to people?


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## mike taylor

Because it's not natural . We try to stay in the guidelines of nature. If you want to oil up and sit out in the sun that's on you . But a tortoise shell soaks up moisture from its environment. Oil blocks this . It can also heat up the tortoise if the wrong oil is used . These are just my opinions . A little oil to help moisturize stuck scutes is fine . But to add shine . I wouldn't do it . But it's your animal . Plus the long term effects may workout. You never know until you try it . Are these indoor tortoises or outdoor tortoises ?I'm thinking the oil would effectively heat the animal in the sunshine . Same as you tanning with oils. But I'm not sure . Only time will tell if it's good or bad .


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## Loritort

Thank you. I respect your thoughts. My buddy lives inside but I try to get him out in the sun everyday for an hour or so. It's cute to watch him play.


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## counting

I'm not staunchly on either side, or an expert but I figured I'd add:

Coconut oil has antibacterial and antifungal properties. If it isn't caked on, it could theoretically provide a slight advantage in avoiding fungal or bacterial infection. 

Iirc, Tortoises do not absorb uvb through the shell. Only the skin. Application of coconut oil to the shell should not hinder uvb absorption. Occasional application to the skin should not have much impact either, given the uvb exposure needs of tortoises amount to about 3/4 hours of sunshine a week. 

I guess what I'm trying to say is I don't know if there's any benefit, however I can't really imagine there is any real concerns either. 

Please don't get angry at me! Just another voice chiming in!


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## counting

With many people thinking about moisture influencing pyramiding, I wonder if it would make any difference to have the keratin moisturized outside of humidity?


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## Loritort

counting said:


> I'm not staunchly on either side, or an expert but I figured I'd add:
> 
> Coconut oil has antibacterial and antifungal properties. If it isn't caked on, it could theoretically provide a slight advantage in avoiding fungal or bacterial infection.
> 
> Iirc, Tortoises do not absorb uvb through the shell. Only the skin. Application of coconut oil to the shell should not hinder uvb absorption. Occasional application to the skin should not have much impact either, given the uvb exposure needs of tortoises amount to about 3/4 hours of sunshine a week.
> 
> I guess what I'm trying to say is I don't know if there's any benefit, however I can't really imagine there is any real concerns either.
> 
> Please don't get angry at me! Just another voice chiming in!


Hehe, definitely not angry! I agree with what you wrote. Thank you.


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## the Turtle Shepherd

GBtortoises said:


> How often? Never.
> 
> A layer of oil, creams or other coatings may inhibit the absorption of UVB for a tortoise. As well as dirt and debris being able to readily cling to the shell, particularly the areas within the scute seams, this can promote bacteria and fungal growth. This can lead to health problems for a tortoise.
> 
> There is no practical or beneficial reason to apply oils or anything else but water to a tortoise's shell.


agree, animals are known to get shell rot from it as well as infections, they are only oiled for sale to show the colors


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## Loritort

So shell rot can occur from using organic coconut oil on the torties shell every so often?
Just curious, is this your opinion or is it a fact? If it is a fact then please provide proof as I find it hard to believe. Thanks!


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## Grandpa Turtle 144

Loritort said:


> I use it for my tortie and it works well. The shell appears on the dry side at times and the coconut oil gives it a nice glow. Since it isn't harmful to the tortoise,why is this so concerning to people?


Because it MAYBE harmful to the tort at a later date . Cause at this time there is nothing that says it's good for a torts health ! It's like when a child says let's paint a turtles shell , but use water base paint ! Why not just don't paint it !


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## the Turtle Shepherd

KevinGG said:


> He didn't say it was harmful. He said it can pose health concerns. Tortoise shells don't need "moisturizing" if habitats are set up properly. Not worth risking the health of the tortoise.


perfectly put, when the housing is right - the skin looks perfect, a few poor souls i rescued were all lamp fried, without any moisturizing the skin quickly renews itself as they bask as needed and hide as wanted, old one flakes off and the new one is smooth and silky, no need for oil ever! if the skin is dry perhaps you should look into why that is instead of oiling it up, of course it will show immediate improvement, but will not fix the cause, perhaps your tort is lacking in vitamins and proteins and is getting too much lamp basking instead of actual sun...


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## Loritort

You can't live life on maybes. There is absolutely NO scientific evidence that organic coconut oil causes shell rot or any harm to tortoises. This is getting very old and tired. Thanks and have a great night!


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## Loritort

the Turtle Shepherd said:


> perfectly put, when the housing is right - the skin looks perfect, a few poor souls i rescued were all lamp fried, without any moisturizing the skin quickly renews itself as they bask as needed and hide as wanted, old one flakes off and the new one is smooth and silky, no need for oil ever! if the skin is dry perhaps you should look into why that is instead of oiling it up, of course it will show immediate improvement, but will not fix the cause, perhaps your tort is lacking in vitamins and proteins and is getting too much lamp basking instead of actual sun...


My tortie is very healthy and well cared for. He doesn't lack for anything. I will continue to use coconut oil on his shell as it cannot be proven to be harmful. Thanks!


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## the Turtle Shepherd

Loritort said:


> Glad you're done! It isn't worth continuing this discussion over using coconut oil on a shell. Doom and gloom and worst case scenarios are unnecessary! Have a great night Kevin


remember, other do not have the same set up as yours. it sounds like your tort is squeaky clean more power to you, we are just trying to establish the fact that it is not something someone should up and go suddenly do! mine live outdoors, if i were to oil them up and let them out it would be like getting them permanently wet, which with the slightest wind will get them respiratory infection pretty quick. in your super windless aquarium i assume sure, he can chill on his rock and bath in his sauna. if someone just up and oiled their pets and sent them outdoors for a walk - it will interfere with the way the body temperature regulates by giving it a wrong reading. and as you know the temperature and well being with torts is everything. this is something some people choose to do under certain circumstances but it is not something that NEEDS to be done ever, for there there is no need for it other than fun and interaction with your beloved pet. by all means oil him up, have a good time, i talk and pet my turts and torts, pick them up, hold them, so i get it enjoy, YOU are not doing anything wrong


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## the Turtle Shepherd

Loritort said:


> I use it for my tortie and it works well. The shell appears on the dry side at times and the coconut oil gives it a nice glow. Since it isn't harmful to the tortoise,why is this so concerning to people?


you need to find out what causes dryness, lamp exposure, vitamin A deficiency, etc.? what breed do you have?


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## Loritort

Neither my tortie nor I are "squeaky clean". That's a ridiculous statement! He lives inside but I take him out everyday to enjoy the sun. 
The indoor arrangement will change once the weather cools down. I'm under no obligation to explain or justify ANYTHING to you. The coconut oil is safe to use on his shell. It is my choice to do so and poses no health risks.


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## the Turtle Shepherd

Grandpa Turtle 144 said:


> Because it MAYBE harmful to the tort at a later date . Cause at this time there is nothing that says it's good for a torts health ! It's like when a child says let's paint a turtles shell , but use water base paint ! Why not just don't paint it !


indeed


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## Loritort

Again, maybe doesn't cut it! None of you have proven your case!


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## the Turtle Shepherd

Loritort said:


> You can't live life on maybes. There is absolutely NO scientific evidence that organic coconut oil causes shell rot or any harm to tortoises. This is getting very old and tired. Thanks and have a great night!


shell rot is caused by excessive moisture, i hope you will agree with that. oil hinders tortoise's ability to regulate both body temperature and moisture levels, so LOGICALLY ALONE that implies the POTENTIAL danger of shell rot. if this does not sink in - nothing will. as for your right to oil your tortoise, no one is telling you to stop, seriously, do what you will, just stop advertising it is all we are asking


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## Loritort

I didn't start this thread nor did I instruct anyone to oil or not oil their tortie. There is absolutely no proof that coconut oil causes any harm to the shell. Speculate all you want but without proof you have NO CASE!


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## counting

the Turtle Shepherd said:


> remember, other do not have the same set up as yours. it sounds like your tort is squeaky clean more power to you, we are just trying to establish the fact that it is not something someone should up and go suddenly do! mine live outdoors, if i were to oil them up and let them out it would be like getting them permanently wet, which with the slightest wind will get them respiratory infection pretty quick. in your super windless aquarium i assume sure, he can chill on his rock and bath in his sauna. if someone just up and oiled their pets and sent them outdoors for a walk - it will interfere with the way the body temperature regulates by giving it a wrong reading. and as you know the temperature and well being with torts is everything. this is something some people choose to do under certain circumstances but it is not something that NEEDS to be done ever, for there there is no need for it other than fun and interaction with your beloved pet. by all means oil him up, have a good time, i talk and pet my turts and torts, pick them up, hold them, so i get it enjoy, YOU are not doing anything wrong



It's easily absorbed so it would not be anything like being wet. I doubt it would pose a risk. I'm also not sure about not knowing long term effects. It's a simple, food grade substance with slight antibacterial and antifungal properties. It's frequently used in many species of animals, including mammals and birds, to treat certain skin and other conditions. 

I don't think it's something people need to do or anything, but I don't understand completely why people are so against it? It's so unlikely it would be linked to respiratory infections, fungal infections, uvb insufficiency or any of the things mentioned. 

Whenever humans keep animals in captivity, we never fully replicate wild conditions. In fact it would be a poor decision to attempt that.The wild is not perfect, it's just the conditions an animal had evolved to survive in. That does not mean it can't be improved on in order to get better results! In the home we aren't nature, ensuring a hungry raven is able to get a meal of weak tortoise so it's species can survive. Nature requires sick, slow, dying tortoises! Keepers don't. So maybe a tiny amount of coconut oil used on a tortoise provides some minor advantages. Perhaps it doesn't. But I think the risk is so inconceivably small that people shouldn't be afraid of trying something new (which could provide benefits) if they want to, and let the results speak for itself.

On this site many people believe in a very wet method of raising torts. Certainly that held a very real risk of respiratory infection, much greater than any potential risk of using coconut oil- and yet here we are with a new method showing promising results. 

But I don't think people need to be fighting so hard over it. If you believe it isn't good, don't do it. If you believe it is good, do it, document it and let your results speak for themselves.


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## Loritort

Agreed. Thank you counting!


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## Grandpa Turtle 144

We have new people joining everyday . They don't need any more Misinformation about torts ! They look for facts . And as far as :


This does happen in nature most torts are hatched in the rainy season and hide in the brush where the the moisture levels are high !


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## Loritort

Grandpa Turtle 144 said:


> We have new people joining everyday . They don't need any more Misinformation about torts ! They look for facts . And as far as :
> [ATTACHMENT=full]216171[/ATTACHMENTTACHMENT ]
> This does happen in nature most torts are hatched in the rainy season and hide in the brush where the the moisture levels are high !


I'm unable to read what you posted. Where can this be found?


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## SteveW

Gentlemen,

This topic has been addressed extensively on other threads, with much passion and (virtual) ink spilt on both sides. A brief search will get you ample reading for a week. If I may sum; the oil contingent considers it a potential benefit with no demonstrated risks. The contrarians counter with pictures of healthy torts raised without it (so not needed) and suggest any risk is too great for something unnecessary.
I comment for two reasons; first, neither of the arguments (in this thread anyway) are valid. As mentioned, something being 'unnatural' is not the same as being problematic. On the other side, someone 'not feeling' something is a problem ' is not informative. 
Second (and this is most important), somehow the 'wet method ' was brought up as a similar controversy and cause of respiratory infection. This is completely incorrect and a false equivalency. I've raised enough to know this but plenty others can speak to this with more authority. 
Finally, as to the passion folks bring to this, and other discussions, I suspect it follows from the vast amounts of bad advice that have been overcome. No one wants anymore to take root. 
Whew! Maybe I need to find a drink and relax. 

Cheers!


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## Loritort

SteveW said:


> Gentlemen,
> 
> This topic has been addressed extensively on other threads, with much passion and (virtual) ink spilt on both sides. A brief search will get you ample reading for a week. If I may sum; the oil contingent considers it a potential benefit with no demonstrated risks. The contrarians counter with pictures of healthy torts raised without it (so not needed) and suggest any risk is too great for something unnecessary.
> I comment for two reasons; first, neither of the arguments (in this thread anyway) are valid. As mentioned, something being 'unnatural' is not the same as being problematic. On the other side, someone 'not feeling' something is a problem ' is not informative.
> Second (and this is most important), somehow the 'wet method ' was brought up as a similar controversy and cause of respiratory infection. This is completely incorrect and a false equivalency. I've raised enough to know this but plenty others can speak to this with more authority.
> Finally, as to the passion folks bring to this, and other discussions, I suspect it follows from the vast amounts of bad advice that have been overcome. No one wants anymore to take root.
> Whew! Maybe I need to find a drink and relax.
> 
> Cheers!


Perhaps you missed the fact that men are not the only ones commenting on this subject. I am a female with more passion and fire than you'll ever know. My argument is valid and well stated. I am not here to persuade anyone to oil or not oil. I have simply pointed out that people are unable to prove that it is harmful to the tortoise. Drink up! Enjoy your night!!


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## counting

SteveW said:


> Gentlemen,
> 
> This topic has been addressed extensively on other threads, with much passion and (virtual) ink spilt on both sides. A brief search will get you ample reading for a week. If I may sum; the oil contingent considers it a potential benefit with no demonstrated risks. The contrarians counter with pictures of healthy torts raised without it (so not needed) and suggest any risk is too great for something unnecessary.
> I comment for two reasons; first, neither of the arguments (in this thread anyway) are valid. As mentioned, something being 'unnatural' is not the same as being problematic. On the other side, someone 'not feeling' something is a problem ' is not informative.
> Second (and this is most important), somehow the 'wet method ' was brought up as a similar controversy and cause of respiratory infection. This is completely incorrect and a false equivalency. I've raised enough to know this but plenty others can speak to this with more authority.
> Finally, as to the passion folks bring to this, and other discussions, I suspect it follows from the vast amounts of bad advice that have been overcome. No one wants anymore to take root.
> Whew! Maybe I need to find a drink and relax.
> 
> Cheers!



I simply brought up wet method as a newer method, which many people believed would be risky. Not that it actually caused respiratory infections. Simply that before it was done, people did (and still do) argue it's risky. 

Love your post though!
(Also a lady, but not offended by being called gentleman. )


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## Loritort

I'm not on here to kiss someone's behind. I am a female and very proud to be strong and resilient. Arrogance is appalling


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## SteveW

My sincere and total apologies for using gendered language. Embarrassingly, I took the time to look for profiles and apparently found the wrong ones. Nevertheless, I misspoke and I'm sorry. 
However appalling arrogance may be though, it is not arrogant for me to disagree with your conclusions or the route you took to get there. It was not my intention to question your level of interest (or gender, but enough said) but to disagree with your argument. In my view, its one of those "absence of evidence is not evidence of absence' kind of things. I don't think anyone has suggested acute toxicity, but even the most devout 'oiler' (Glitch, I think) found evidence of slow and incremental problems with the use. 
And with that said, I shall now extricate myself as the avowed non-expert that I am and redirect you, should you be interested, to other threads that have already covered this ground. 

Thank you, and goodnight.


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## Loritort

This isn't about disagreeing with me. Everyone has a right to their own ideas. I've clearly stated my point and no one is able to prove the oiling is harmful, unnecessary or cause shell rot. Drink up and please enjoy the rest of your night


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## Tidgy's Dad

A rather bizarre extra to be added to the debate.
http://www.tortoiseandladygrey.com/2015/11/09/coconut-oil-and-animal-cruelty/


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## Loritort

So happy to be on this forum! Good people here and very knowledgeable
Thank you


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## KevinGG

A much better thread: http://www.tortoiseforum.org/index.php?threads/Coconut-Oil.103782/

A little ashamed at the level of dialogue that we participated in. This stuff is so much more complex and interesting. Required reading for everybody on this thread!


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## the Turtle Shepherd

passion? i thought this was not about personal opinions but about what is needed and NOT when it comes to tortoise care, if your tortoise is that dry it needs oil - there is something wrong there, attacking those that refuse to oil their animals is completely unnecessary


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## Loritort

Still wanna keep going? I am perfectly capable of deciding what I can read.


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## Loritort

I'm not attacking anyone. No one was able to prove that oil is harmful/ unnecessary. Please move on.


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## rolley

I don't want you people to argue on this ... I just wanted to know that it is good for my tort or not...I have got the info I needed...request you all to please be polite and respectful to all


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## Pearly

KevinGG said:


> A much better thread: http://www.tortoiseforum.org/index.php?threads/Coconut-Oil.103782/
> 
> A little ashamed at the level of dialogue that we participated in. This stuff is so much more complex and interesting. Required reading for everybody on this thread!


Yes, the thread you've linked here is the one I read when I first joined the Forum 2 yrs (and some..) ago. I think that "to oil, or not to oil" is a personal choice, and we as keepers/pet owners in the end do what works for us and out pets. I personally DO use EV coconut oil on my RFs, but they are still very young (2 yrs &2 months) so I still keep them indoors at night and bathe them (almost daily!) in my guest bathroom tub. I've been doing this since they were tiny 2" hatchlings. Amongst the benefits is the ease of interacting with them (they are completely tame and seem to enjoy being handled), they have NEVER had any problems with shell rot despite being kept in 90 and over 90% humid closed system. Their skin and scales to head, limbs and tail are in perfect condition, and... they look pretty. I completely understand and respect the argument "let them be tortoises and get dirty" and I respect that as well. And I will likely join that "no oil crowd" once my babies are fully grown and living in my Tortoise Garden full time. They will be too big for me to drag them upstairs to that guest bathtub. The mess from a 13" tort is likely a lot bigger then from little youngsters. Plus handling little poop, netting it out of the tub (I know! gross!!!!) is likely not as bad as trying to remove a small "pyramid" in order to preserve the house plumbing. Once mine are bigger and living full time outside I think their wading pools and water hose will be utilized most as their bathing tools, and maybe once a year coco oil rubdown to shine those shells on their hatch day, so I can post pretty pics here All that said, I'm am all for rubbing them down with some coco oil while examining their body under good light, while excess is wiped off with soft absorbent cloth and care is taken not to let any of the oil into their eyes but my way, is NOT the only way. This is just what I DO and I like it this way. My torts seem to enjoy it and I assume there are no any untoward effects judging by how active and strong my torts are and how good their appetite and growth rate are. Again, that's just me. No scientific data here, just common sense and observation with my naked eye plus info gathered from this Forum.


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## Pearly

rolley said:


> I don't want you people to argue on this ... I just wanted to know that it is good for my tort or not...I have got the info I needed...request you all to please be polite and respectful to all


Couldn't agree more! Let's keep this Forum a friendly and non confrontational place that it's been. Of course there is nothing better than a good argument in a healthy discourse, but let's try to keep emotions out of it and be respectful of the opinions of other people.


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## Yvonne G

Loritort said:


> Neither my tortie nor I are "squeaky clean". That's a ridiculous statement! He lives inside but I take him out everyday to enjoy the sun.
> The indoor arrangement will change once the weather cools down. I'm under no obligation to explain or justify ANYTHING to you. The coconut oil is safe to use on his shell. It is my choice to do so and poses no health risks.



You need to read the thread made by glitch. He/she has done extensive research and has come to some remarkable conclusions. At first he was very pro coconut oil, but after his study went on for a while, he has changed his tune. Very good reading here:

http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/coconut-oil.103782/page-27


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## KevinGG

Loritort said:


> I'm not attacking anyone. No one was able to prove that oil is harmful/ unnecessary. Please move on.



Kind of what the link is about... 

It's not so simple by the way. OP of that thread hasn't come to any conclusion yet, but frequency of application and age when applied are discussed. OP is very open about failures and success. You should read this if you're interested in this stuff.


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## KevinGG

Pearly said:


> Yes, the thread you've linked here is the one I read when I first joined the Forum 2 yrs (and some..) ago. I think that "to oil, or not to oil" is a personal choice, and we as keepers/pet owners in the end do what works for us and out pets. I personally DO use EV coconut oil on my RFs, but they are still very young (2 yrs &2 months) so I still keep them indoors at night and bathe them (almost daily!) in my guest bathroom tub. I've been doing this since they were tiny 2" hatchlings. Amongst the benefits is the ease of interacting with them (they are completely tame and seem to enjoy being handled), they have NEVER had any problems with shell rot despite being kept in 90 and over 90% humid closed system. Their skin and scales to head, limbs and tail are in perfect condition, and... they look pretty. I completely understand and respect the argument "let them be tortoises and get dirty" and I respect that as well. And I will likely join that "no oil crowd" once my babies are fully grown and living in my Tortoise Garden full time. They will be too big for me to drag them upstairs to that guest bathtub. The mess from a 13" tort is likely a lot bigger then from little youngsters. Plus handling little poop, netting it out of the tub (I know! gross!!!!) is likely not as bad as trying to remove a small "pyramid" in order to preserve the house plumbing. Once mine are bigger and living full time outside I think their wading pools and water hose will be utilized most as their bathing tools, and maybe once a year coco oil rubdown to shine those shells on their hatch day, so I can post pretty pics here All that said, I'm am all for rubbing them down with some coco oil while examining their body under good light, while excess is wiped off with soft absorbent cloth and care is taken not to let any of the oil into their eyes but my way, is NOT the only way. This is just what I DO and I like it this way. My torts seem to enjoy it and I assume there are no any untoward effects judging by how active and strong my torts are and how good their appetite and growth rate are. Again, that's just me. No scientific data here, just common sense and observation with my naked eye plus info gathered from this Forum.



Have you read the most recent postings? Like the last two pages? 

OP has had some really interesting successes, failures and new info. Some is hypothesis, but really interesting none the less. OP and mark go back and forth and dialogue is getting better and better.


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## Pearly

KevinGG said:


> Have you read the most recent postings? Like the last two pages?
> 
> OP has had some really interesting successes, failures and new info. Some is hypothesis, but really interesting none the less. OP and mark go back and forth and dialogue is getting better and better.


Yes, just did after posting. I love that thread. I love reading about all the science behind tort keeping and try to not miss Mark's posts as he always puts lots of interesting info, and great pictures. You have some nice visuals too btw. There are so many interesting discussions on this Forum, posts by some brilliant minds who unselfishly share their know-how with all of us. That is why I love this forum so much.


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## Loohan

I generally see no reason to oil turtles, but my wonky friend Felter:




Gets that dry look. He didn't have it when i got him in Spring of 2016, but i think the frequent long soaks outside in the sun does this.
Under the same conditions, my little Rorg, same species (3-toe) does not get a dry-looking shell.
Probably the water more than the sun; note how the very top does not seem so dried out.

Even so i only have oiled Felter 2-3 times, with a few drops of black cumin seed oil. Not in recent months, though. I presume to problem is purely cosmetic...


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## Big Charlie

Loohan said:


> I generally see no reason to oil turtles, but my wonky friend Felter:
> 
> View attachment 216196
> 
> 
> Gets that dry look. He didn't have it when i got him in Spring of 2016, but i think the frequent long soaks outside in the sun does this.
> Under the same conditions, my little Rorg, same species (3-toe) does not get a dry-looking shell.
> Probably the water more than the sun; note how the very top does not seem so dried out.
> 
> Even so i only have oiled Felter 2-3 times, with a few drops of black cumin seed oil. Not in recent months, though. I presume to problem is purely cosmetic...


That could be mineral deposits from the water. Harmless.


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## Loohan

Big Charlie said:


> That could be mineral deposits from the water. Harmless.



Yes. Could be. Won't come off with water and nylon brush.
Haven't tried vinegar yet.


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## Alaskamike

Loohan said:


> Yes. Could be. Won't come off with water and nylon brush.
> Haven't tried vinegar yet.


You could scrub it off with Coconut Oil .... 
...just kidding. 
I get mineral deposits from my well water on the shells. I scrub it off with a stiff toothbrush & a small amount of Apple Cider Viniger. 

Then ...I apply coconut oil. ...
( just kidding , only sometimes )


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## jbrass

mike taylor said:


> Because it's not natural . We try to stay in the guidelines of nature. If you want to oil up and sit out in the sun that's on you . But a tortoise shell soaks up moisture from its environment. Oil blocks this . It can also heat up the tortoise if the wrong oil is used . These are just my opinions . A little oil to help moisturize stuck scutes is fine . But to add shine . I wouldn't do it . But it's your animal . Plus the long term effects may workout. You never know until you try it . Are these indoor tortoises or outdoor tortoises ?I'm thinking the oil would effectively heat the animal in the sunshine . Same as you tanning with oils. But I'm not sure . Only time will tell if it's good or bad .


Good grief. It’s not natural to put them in cages. Let it go


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## jbrass

I joined this forum because I love tortoises. But after looking through several threads, it looks like its just another way for people to show how much better they are than other people. Everyone is fighting in our world all the time now over everything. Even coconut oil on tortoise shells. Find some peace people. Half of you are against using coconut oil because there is a 1%(if that) chance it’s harmful to a creature of lower intelligence then the one you are likely eating for your next meal. It’s crazy. Keeping them in captivity isn’t good for them either. Live and let live.


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## Blackdog1714

Here are my two cents... Anything in excess is bad for you. Years ago scientists found that Pepsi causes cancer in rats- when they drink the equivalent of 3 cases a day. I am all for providing my tortoise with a better life with me than it would get in the wild.
1. I will not eat it
2. I will offer food daily
3. I seperate the torts and the other four legged animals- My Newfie could fit both torts in his mouth
4. I strive to maintain the best micro-climate for the growth
5. I am open to learning new things and admitting I was wrong
6. I am not saying Tom is the All-Father but dude very little stupid comes from him
7. I got both my babies from TFO members and could not be happier
8. I use JSHeffield's Tortoise Pomade and the time it gives me with each tort
9. I will let my torts speak for themselves- Leopard on 12/26/2019 at 300.8g/1/17/2020 at 375g, Russian as a baby in my handand being weighed on 12/26/2019

Lastly I enjoy TFO because it allowed a NEWB like me to be able to provide the best for my tortoises with out having to go back to school! And please remember "Torting ain't Easy" and "I ain't got a show tort!"


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## ZEROPILOT

This is an ongoing "science" that may prove helpful in the future.
Let's keep what we are here trying to accomplish in sight. Let's grow our knowledge.
Several members have noted that treating shells with oils can help stop pyramiding, etc.
Even if it turns out to be just a cosmetic issue and have no actual health benefits, I think we also need to wait and see if there are any accumulative negative affects or other positive affects that we are still unaware of.
This is a work in progress.
The post is already 2.5 years old.


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## Rex1718

Not sure why you are wanting to put oil on the torts shell. My sulcata’s shell gets hard water stains from soaking. To help I collect rain water to rinse him in spay bottle after a soak. Not sure if this helps you any, but just something I do. I’ve always been scared to use and oil on my tortoise because of ants, not sure if it will attract them or not.


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## jso

My concern is that this is a practice more to do with aesthetics than the well-being of the tortoise, then being justified with other (in my opinion) at the least dubious claims. As far as aesthetics is concerned, I must admit I love to see my tortoises’s carapaces all shiny-it brings out the real beauty of the patterning on their shells. But I achieve this by spraying them with _water_, and I do that either to replicate rainfall (which occurs from time to time even for Mediterranean species) or as one of the methods of increasing humidity (for rainforest or edge of forest/savannah species). The shiny look is a temporary byproduct.

Claims of moisturising effects (and therefore part of a regime to minimise chances of pyramiding) are interesting. But I think the only valid justification would have to be that it’s an attempt, and possibly a compromise (as so many aspects of captive keeping are), to replicate something that would occur in nature. I think the practice would have a little more validity if the claimed advantages couldn’t be achieved any other way. But if the aim is to keep keratin soft and flexible, there are surely other more naturalistic ways of dong that? For example, I wouldn’t advocate oiling a box turtle, or my kinixys, as a substitute for keeping it in the appropriate damp/ humid environment that it would find in nature, and which can be relatively easy to replicate in captivity.
Basking lamps, and hibernation using a fridge, are very unnatural processes, but they are probably the only way that some species can be kept in captivity out of their natural ranges. Most of us will probably resort to using them. But surely we do so knowing that they’re a massive compromise, and have some risks attached to them: it’s just that they’re probably unavoidable methods in certain situations. Therefore I’d regard these as justifiable methods (if it’s justifiable for us to keep these creatures in captivity at all - which is a much bigger question).

But I really can’t see any justification for _oiling_ the shell of a tortoise or turtle, other than it pleasing the personal preference of the keeper. And that’s hard to challenge without appearing critical of, or rude to, others.

So, I’ll leave it there.


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## jsheffield

Luckily, nobody is forced to treat their tortoises' shells against their will, so the people serving up the naturalistic argument are safe... Phew!


Jamie


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## Toddrickfl1

If I had to bet all my chips, I'd put them on Coconut oil helping with smooth growth. I raised my first tortoise in an open table and the only thing I've done a little differently is apply coconut oil to his carapace once every week or so

I've also used coconut oil on my second tort. Even though she is in a closed chamber. I have seen Redfoots raised in closed chamber that still have minor Pyramiding. I've had no problem with it.


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## jso

Toddrickfl1 said:


> If I had to bet all my chips, I'd put them on Coconut oil helping with smooth growth. I raised my first tortoise in an open table and the only thing I've done a little differently is apply coconut oil to his carapace once every week or so
> View attachment 285259
> I've also used coconut oil on my second tort. Even though she is in a closed chamber. I have seen Redfoots raised in closed chamber that still have minor Pyramiding. I've had no problem with it.
> View attachment 285260


Theyre both looking good, second one really nice. Of course, using the oil on the second one in a closed chamber slightly obscures the argument: it could be the closed chamber that did more to help to achieve the smooth growth?
I inherited my redfoots. They’re not exactly pyramided, but certainly quite “ridged” like your top photo. Not too sure of their original enclosures: but I’m doing all I can to maintain humidity now (for their general well-being, not necessarily to try to change their scutes - too late for that now). They’re not in a closed chamber as such, but a glazed “cupboard” so not entirely open either.


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## jso

jsheffield said:


> Luckily, nobody is forced to treat their tortoises' shells against their will, so the people serving up the naturalistic argument are safe... Phew!
> 
> 
> Jamie


Well, you might have been writing a bit ironically there, but yes, you’re right. Ultimately we do make our own decisions. But hopefully thought-out and, here possible, informed decisions. Trouble is, _that _depends on who we listen to!


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## jsheffield

True... I agree we need more long-term data about the efficacy of treating their shells before anything definitive can be known about it 

TFO is a haven for safe and reasoned discussion about tortoises and tortoise husbandry, one of the reasons that I love this forum... informed decisions come from data, not opinion; that why I'm looking at the effects of applying oils to my four torts.

It's a bit muddying that I keep mine (except for the adult Russian) in closed chambers with high humidity, but I think a few years down the road I'll have some useful information about raising tropical forest torts in a cold and dry environment like New Hampshire.

I have trouble listening to arguments that begin with "but in nature, they don't"... in Florida that might be a reasonable thing, but in NH I'm so far from their natural environment that I aim for optimum rather than natural.

I also struggle with the naturalistic arguments because many animals in captivity do better, live longer, than their cousins in the wild.

If you look at the question of oil treatments in FB groups, you'll get a lot of people insisting that you'll damage your tort because they need to breathe through their carapace and plastron and oils will stop it.

It's an interesting topic that bears lots of further study, but seems sufficiently worth it, to me, to merit experimentation with my torts.

Thanks for reading my thoughts, for sharing your thoughts, and for forcing me to think through (and separate) my feelings from my experience and knowledge.

Jamie


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## jso

jso said:


> Well, you might have been writing a bit ironically there, but yes, you’re right. Ultimately we do make our own decisions. But hopefully thought-out and, here possible, informed decisions. Trouble is, _that _depends on who we listen to!


Should have written: “wherever” possible. (The edit function seems to have disappeared?)


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## jso

jsheffield said:


> .
> 
> It's a bit muddying that I keep mine (except for the adult Russian) in closed chambers with high humidity, but I think a few years down the road I'll have some useful information about raising tropical forest torts in a cold and dry environment like New Hampshire.
> 
> I have trouble listening to arguments that begin with "but in nature, they don't"... in Florida that might be a reasonable thing, but in NH I'm so far from their natural environment that I aim for optimum rather than natural.
> 
> I also struggle with the naturalistic arguments because many animals in captivity do better, live longer, than their cousins in the wild.
> 
> It's an interesting topic that bears lots of further study, but seems sufficiently worth it, to me, to merit experimentation with my torts.
> 
> Thanks for reading my thoughts, for sharing your thoughts, and for forcing me to think through (and separate) my feelings from my experience and knowledge.
> 
> Jamie



My understanding of naturalistic arguments is that nature provides the only really valid base-line, providing massive clues about how species have adapted to particular habitats over millennia. It seems perverse to ignore that in designing necessarily controlled environments for captive animals. If captive animals do better than their wild cousins, it’s because we’re in a position to protect them from _adverse_ natural conditions such as predators, effects of climate change, drought or flood etc, and the negative impact of humans on natural habitats. But that doesn’t mean we should keep them in ways that deliberately (or through ignorance and/or lack of care) ignore the _beneficial_ features of their natural habitats, such as sunlight, food supplies, substrat s, temperatures etc etc.

Arguments that begin “but in nature they don’t” have the same validity wherever that is said, or wherever we might be trying to keep species out of their natural range, I think. I’m in the UK. There are no indigenous tortoises here! All of the animals I keep are out of their natural range. So everything is compromise, but my aim is to provide the nearest basic conditions, at least, that each species need, and at least _working towards_ optimal.

I might not match nature very well, but that doesn’t give me licence to do anything to or with my charges that I know, understand, or believe to be unnatural. That’s my position anyway.

Enjoying the discussion. Cheers.


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## Blackdog1714

Just remember the earth was once flat and the sun revolved around the earth. Our discussion is much more calm though!


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## jso

Blackdog1714 said:


> Just remember the earth was once flat and the sun revolved around the earth. Our discussion is much more calm though!


I think my understanding of natural habitats is a bit more up to date than pre-Galileo and pre-Columbus.


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