# MBD symptoms ?



## DonaTello's-Mom (Mar 13, 2010)

Just curious about how a tortoise acts ( or looks) when they have MBD? Are there different degrees of it, like from severe to mild? Does anyone have a picture they could post? Thanks.


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## Tom (Mar 13, 2010)

Soft shell, weakness or paralyzation of the limbs (usually the back ones), the normally domed carapace can have a "flat" spot over the back. In severe cases, the lack of calcium in the bloodstream can cause them to shiver, twitch or have seizures. These things are often accompanied by lethargy and lack of appetite. There are probably more, but these are the ones I've seen and, I think, the most typical.


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## DonaTello's-Mom (Mar 13, 2010)

My Donnie shakes or kinda 'bobb's his head sometimes. Is that normal for them or could that be a sign of MBD? Keep in mind I'm still rather new to torts and I'm just wondering whats 'normal' verses not. He has his "free choice' Cal and does visit it quite often. Good varied diet and outside grazing in the weed filled yard.


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## sammi (Mar 13, 2010)

Head bobbing is fine. If I remember correctly, its a territorial/mating thing. Ernie bobs his head all the time at me


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## DonaTello's-Mom (Mar 13, 2010)

Oh really?? I've noticed it when he raises up on all 4 legs and does the head bobbing thing. Thanks because of course (once again) I was worried about my baby.!


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## Maggie Cummings (Mar 13, 2010)

That's how Bob got the name Bob. His previous keeper named him, I would have been more clever. But I just kept it, Bob...


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## Tom (Mar 13, 2010)

If he's eating weeds and grass and getting regular sunshine, it is VERY unlikely that you would see any MBD. Make that VERY VERY unlikely. They only need a couple of hours of sun a week to hold it off. I've heard as little as 20 minutes a week will do the trick. I don't know the correct scientific proven answer, but some sun every few days WILL prevent MBD. If you can do more, even better. If you have a cold spell and have to skip two or three weeks, it shouldn't be any problem. If mine are getting regular sun, I don't bother with the UV bulbs indoors either. You just don't need them. I use regular incandescents just for heat and light. It doesn't hurt anything to use the UV bulbs too, it just isn't necessary.


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## Madkins007 (Mar 14, 2010)

Remember- MBD is NOT a single disease or condition, but a catch-all phrase for several conditions. 

The most common form of MBD in captivity is Nutritional Secondary Hyperparathyroidism (NSHP) and is caused by a poor calcium cycle. 

For any animal to build strong bones and healthy organs, it needs to have all of the elements in place- enough water, enough calcium, the right proportion of phosphorous, vitamin D,proper trace elements, etc. For reptiles, we also need to add the right temperatures.

We usually mess up the water, calcium levels, vitamin D, or heat.

Early symptoms are tremors and disorientation, jaw deformity, troubles walking, etc. In turtles and tortoises, a 'leathery' or 'rubbery' softness will occur in the shell. It is best diagnosed by a blood test showing low calcium levels.

It is important to remember that rhythmic head bobbing and other movements are not the same as tremors, and it takes hatchlings a little time for their shells to firm up.

Treatment for mild cases is better diet and cares. More severe cases need medical support.

(Source: Dr. Mader, "Reptile Medicine and Surgery")


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## DonaTello's-Mom (Mar 14, 2010)

Oh you all are so good. Thanks. My fears have been eased. Maggie I love the name 'Bob' for your tort, seems to really fit him. My guy is 'DonaTello' but I call him 'Donnie'. Maybe 1 day I'll find him a 'Marie'...Lol. Then I'll have 'Donnie & Mare'!!


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## monterey 201 (Aug 9, 2010)

*MBD info please!?*

i have a baby leopard tortoise about 5 months old that has no symptoms eats daily and is very active, but when i picked him up to give him a bath today i noticed that if i pushed on the shell it would slightly go in i wouldnt describe it as a soft shell but all over can be pushed in. im only asking about this because previous tortoises ive kept didnt have that soft and flexible of a shell. any info on if this is a problem or not would be greatly appreciated


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## dmmj (Aug 9, 2010)

Hatchlings are born with soft shells, so they can fit in the egg, You have to know if your baby leopard had a hard shell and then it is going soft, or if it is just hardening at it's own pace. If it was hard and then went soft that is bad, if it just slowly hardening then that is ok, in the wild they can be a little soft for years.


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## Yvonne G (Aug 10, 2010)

Hi Monterey 201:

Welcome to the forum!!


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