# pyramiding?



## armandoarturo (Nov 14, 2010)

hey everyone!
Thanks god I've never had problems with pyramiding and shell problems.. I guess thats because My tortoises are just outside and they have shelter and humid natural burrows...
BUT.... I think im facing something new....
I dont know much about pyramiding.. but I've seen pictures around the forum... and made me think about this two tortoises that I have, they are from the same clutch.. they are 4 years old.
here are some pictures for you guys...
I hope somebody knows if they really are pyramiding, or if its just my nerves...
Also what should I do about it.... 
thanks a lot, once more!
(I had a hard time trying to get the perspective of the bumb areas... it looks a little bit more bumpy on real life).


----------



## Yvonne G (Nov 14, 2010)

I'm going to PM Danny to take a look at these pictures. The smaller tortoise has some mottling starting to appear between the scutes and desert tortoises don't have mottling.

But I see what you mean about the pyramiding. Yes, it looks like a slight case of pyramiding to me.


----------



## egyptiandan (Nov 14, 2010)

Can you take a picture of both of their thighs? Where did you get them?
They have quite a bit more yellow on their head and legs than most Desert tortoises have.

Danny


----------



## Yvonne G (Nov 14, 2010)

Chaco?


----------



## egyptiandan (Nov 14, 2010)

No 

They are _Gopherus_ and probably have Desert tortoise in them, just Desert tortoise and what else.

Danny


----------



## armandoarturo (Nov 14, 2010)

They where born in my backyard...
mom and dad both Desert tortoises...
I made a post like 2 months ago about the mottling, but everyone said it wasnt anything bad... it was just growth
but I sure will take more pictures tomorrow and upload them!
Also, I will take pictures to their mother...
I dont have the male anymore.


----------



## armandoarturo (Nov 15, 2010)

Luckily I found some pictures of them around here... 
The adult tortoise its their beautiful mother...
I love her, she's one of my favorite ones.
What do you think about the spots, and pyramiding?
Im getting concerned now :S


----------



## egyptiandan (Nov 15, 2010)

I don't think Yvonne was PMing me because she thought there was anything wrong with your tortoises, just that she wasn't sure they were Desert tortoises.
Well mom is all Desert tortoise.  You don't have any pictures of dad? Did dad have large thigh spurs? Like an inch and a half to two inches long?
The pictures are nice, but don't show the thighes of the tortoises. The best way to take that is to turn the tortoises over and take a picture of their tails getting everything on either side to their legs.
I don't think either of them is pyramided.

Danny


----------



## armandoarturo (Nov 15, 2010)

unfortunately I dont have any pictures of the dad. It was my friends, and she no longer has him =/

here... I hope this picture helps
Im glad they are not pyramiding... still I will try to keep them a little more humid.
Also.. what do you think about the mottling?


----------



## laura808 (Nov 15, 2010)

hmmm this is cool. what if they are some kind of tortoise hybrid?  nah just kidding. They are beautiful!


----------



## armandoarturo (Nov 15, 2010)

I really hope they are just DT's .. and no hybrids hahaha
I would still love them either way, but I would prefer that they were 100%


----------



## Torty Mom (Nov 15, 2010)

Just trying to learn here.....the shells on the babies look as though the center of the scutes are rising, that is not pyramiding? 

Also what is a chaco?

Thanks!!


----------



## armandoarturo (Nov 16, 2010)

thats why I thought they were pyramiding!
and still wondering if they really are DTs or some kind of hybrid...
and also whats wrong with the mottling


----------



## Seiryu (Nov 17, 2010)

armandoarturo said:


> thats why I thought they were pyramiding!
> and still wondering if they really are DTs or some kind of hybrid...
> and also whats wrong with the mottling


The brown smallest one is pyramiding for sure. It isn't as bad as when they are bigger, but hatchlings that are, _generally_ don't have extremely bumpy scutes. Only when they start to get older do you notice it more. 

The raised scutes are easily noticeable to me. You won't be able to completely rid of it, but over time with corrected husbandry and time, the growth will look more smooth.

I can't tell as easily, with the darker black one. But if you run your finger across the shell and feel any dips, then it is. 

The mom looks great though! Pyramiding is only cosmetic though, unless it is accompanied by MBD, which yours don't seem to have.


----------



## armandoarturo (Nov 17, 2010)

I would definitely say they don't have mbd...
They live outside in my yard, have plenty of natural sunshine, and they have even better diet than me hahaha


----------



## franeich (Nov 17, 2010)

Dan, 
Just curios why do you ask about the leg spurs. Are you thinking sulcata or is there another tort that has leg spurs. The head looks just like my sulcata


----------



## armandoarturo (Nov 17, 2010)

Its definitely not a sulcata.
mother its 100% desert tortoise.
It wouldn't be able to procreate with a male sulcata.


----------



## egyptiandan (Nov 18, 2010)

They are all Desert tortoise 

Not a thing wrong with the mottling. It's most likely from a lower genetic diversity.

Chaco tortoises, _Chelonoidis chilensis_, are from Southern South America.

No wasn't thinking Sulcata  I was think Bolson's tortoise, _Gopherus flavomarginatus_, which have large thigh spurs.

All the _Gopherus_ species can interbreed. I've seen Desert/Texas and Desert/Bolson's hybrids and possible Bolson's/Gopher hybrids.

Danny


----------



## armandoarturo (Nov 18, 2010)

Thanks so much for the information!
but.... what would be the difference between Gopherus flavomarginatus and Gopherus agassizii?
Do you know If those hybrids are able to procreate? or are they sterile?

Im glad theres nothing wrong with the mottling!
thanks for your answers!


----------

