# Cracked eggs!!!!



## Katherine

Any one ever successfully incubate an egg that was fissured during laying? Frankie (female sulcata) likes to dig a deep hole and drop her eggs a substantial distance to their resting place so often there are 3-7 eggs with hairline cracks or fractures. We have tried many different approaches to remedy these doomed eggs but so far no success. There were 7 in her last clutch and for the first time we packed them with her own mud, and then incubated like normal. Without disturbing them too much i can tell that 3 of them have started to develop; I'm optimistic but not holding my breath! Anyone else ever try to hatch the cracked ones? Any success stories?


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## jaizei

http://www.tortoiseforum.org/Thread-What-Can-You-Do-With-A-Broken-Egg#axzz1fWek6ZRj

http://www.tortoiseforum.org/Thread-Delores-Eggs-Hatching#axzz1fWek6ZRj


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## Katherine

Thanks for the link! Appreciate you!


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## jackrat

I've had success with both freezer tape and elmers wood glue.


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## dmmj

If the shell is cracked but the membrane is sill intact you can just leave them alone.


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## Katherine

Thanks, weve tried leaving them as is, skin glue, and adhering vinyl patches without any success but will def give wood glue and freezer tape a shot next go round if our mud packing fails. Anything feels better than giving up on them : )


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## Termite Farmer

I have hatched various hard shell reptile eggs that had cracks in them by smearing the crack with neosporin or triple antibiotic (petrolium based) and placing a small piece of plastic wrap as a cover over the crack and baking as usual. As long as they don't have any liquid seeping out this has proven very sucessfull.
I was shown this by Carl Feurry, a very successfull cyclura (rock iguana) breeder so I take no credit for this imaginative approach.


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## Katherine

Thanks so much for the info! Just dug up a clutch with a single fractured egg and and intend to try a new approach : ) Just curious if you have hung onto any reptiles hatched with the neosporin; and if so if you can attest to their hearing abilities. I am not too worried since it is only one egg and I could easily accommodate a single deaf adult if that becomes the case; but would be anxious to try a triple antibiotic in larger numbers. Would love feed back on the hatchlings if you have any : ) thanks again, truly appreciate it!


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## Tom

Yes they will often still hatch if the inner membrane is intact.

What concerns me is the number of cracked eggs in each nest. They should be able to withstand a pretty good knocking around without cracking. Try supplementing that female with more calcium and soak her once a week for a while. I'll bet that will give you fewer cracked eggs per clutch. I have a female that was given to me as a large adult about a year ago. She was raised and cared for pretty horribly before I got her and I had a lot of eggs break in her first clutch. 11 out of 22. I started putting calcium on her food and soaking her more and her next clutch 6 weeks later had 9 out of 24 broken. Ten weeks later only 5 out of 25. Her latest clutch around a year after I got her had only 3 out of 22 cracked. It has been slow but steady improvement, but I am undoing 15 years of poor diet and bad care. I bet yours is starting in much better shape than mine and so you'll probably have even better results than me.


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## Katherine

Thnks for the great advice : ) I already love this forum!

I don't free catch her eggs but rather allow her to bury them and dig them up after she abandons eggs. We are in La and right off a river bed so the soil is heavy and clay like (tried offering sandy loam 'nesting patches, she won't bite) I had hypothesized that one factor in the large number of fissures is possibly that the eggs crack under the incredible weight of 20+iinches of wet clay. You know how they loooove to stomp it down good and make sure they leave no trace : ) 7 was the most I've ever seen injured (but I'm pretty sure we cracked two trying to find her nest at the bottom of the deep abyss in the black of night  ) so maybe it's time to up the calcium, they are always growing afterall! The clutch I pulled up this evening from the same female had only one injured egg, 29 perfect ping pong balls, so if she is deficient I'm hopeful it won't be hard to correct....

I currently supplement with mauzuri all year round, extra for breeders when gravid, and always sprinkle w powdered calcium before soaking it. Plus feed tons of dark leafy calcium rich veg; but the mazuri and powder are really the only quantifiable calcium level i could adjust easily. Maybe I am going light with it now? It is my understanding that powdered calcium could be caustic in large quantities so I always add it to the food soak, but maybe theres a better form of transmission? How much calcium do you generally feed? This particular female is prob around 90lbsish.

Thanks!!

Also would love to hear from anyone with triple-antibiotic follow up stories : )


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## Tom

I've never heard of the triple-antibiotic thing.

Sounds like you have all the bases covered to me. I let mine finish and dig them up later too. Most of the time my nests are right around 18" deep and we have pretty hard rocky dirt here. My other two females rarely crack and egg when nesting and I notice a difference in how the eggs "feel" between my three girls. The eggs out of my one female just feel like the shell is thinner and less substantial. The eggs out of the other two are noticeably thicker feeling. Although the thinner shelled ones are starting to pretty much feel the same as the others now.

Here's a question for you. I hear about people catching eggs as they are laid all the time. Free-catching as you put it. My sulcatas are all friendly, but they are very wary and alert when nesting. If they see movement nearby (like me trying to snap a photo) they cease digging, watch me, and wait for me to leave to resume. I can only get to about 40 feet away without them stopping, but even then they watch me like a hawk. Does your big girl do this?


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## Katherine

I wish I could say yes or no for sure; but like I said I too leave them alone so I am not sure : / I have one who digs 3-4 dummy nests before laying for real and so if I see her digging I always 'sneak' up on her to check for extroversion of the oviduct or eggs so I know if I should excavate later or not; and she never seems to mind/notice me but I've seen another stop digging and act defensively when my dogs were roughhousing/being loud about 20 ft from her. They generally nest up against the enclosure wall so its fairly easy for me to loop the enclosure incognito and check on their business but sticking my hand in there seems too risky. My fear is exactly as u said; that they will spook! I'd be a wreck if one ever got eggbound or something just because I was curious and/or impatient so I much prefer the muddy, labor intensive " wait and dig " approach : )


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## Vicki2x2

I am new to torts, but with chickens, we melt candle wax and spread it over the crack to seal it.


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## Katherine

Vicki2x2 said:


> I am new to torts, but with chickens, we melt candle wax and spread it over the crack to seal it.



So many new things to try! I only got one clutch since posting it and there was only one egg so I went with a triple antibiotic and syranwrap patch; I will def give all of these a try in time though-never would have though of wax! Thanks : )


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## Wicked Demon

super glue? works on corals.....and me.


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## EricIvins

Sulcata Eggs will NEVER hatch if cracked or damaged in any way........

Up the calcium intake, and the problem will go away.......I've had this problem with just about every Adult Female I've acquired - Sulcata Eggs are definately different than any other species.......Most other Tortoise Eggs can be repaired, these guys can't........


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## Katherine

EricIvins said:


> Sulcata Eggs will NEVER hatch if cracked or damaged in any way........
> 
> Up the calcium intake, and the problem will go away.......I've had this problem with just about every Adult Female I've acquired - Sulcata Eggs are definately different than any other species.......Most other Tortoise Eggs can be repaired, these guys can't........



This has been my experience too; I have yet to successfully hatch one and I always incubate them separate from healthy eggs anticipating their demise. I intend to keep experimenting though (however futile it may be ; ) ) thanks for the Ca advice!


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## Katherine

UPDATE: 
THINGS THAT DEFINITELY DID NOT WORK: 
triple antibiotic ointment and syran wrap (no development)
Superglue (no development )

Things that WORKED INITIALLY but FAILED later in incubation:
packed with mud from the nest site (development stopped 30-60 days in)
(one of these eggs is still developing but several others have failed)

THINGS THAT APPEAR TO BE WORKING GREAT:
*packing the crack/hole with a generous amount of sterile petroleum jelly
*(still a few weeks left before hatching but this definitely allowed the egg to develop unhindered and in sync with the others)

Things still on my to try list if I ever get another cracked egg:
Freezer tape



anyways I appreciated all your advice so thought I would keep you posted with the outcomes!


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## Tom

EricIvins said:


> Sulcata Eggs will NEVER hatch if cracked or damaged in any way........
> 
> Up the calcium intake, and the problem will go away.......I've had this problem with just about every Adult Female I've acquired - Sulcata Eggs are definately different than any other species.......Most other Tortoise Eggs can be repaired, these guys can't........



Eric, so often you post these short, matter of fact statements, and you are usually 100% correct. In this case you are 100% wrong. I have hatched several that were cracked or damaged. In my incubators the hatch rate for cracked eggs is about the same as for non-cracked eggs, as long as the INNER membrane is still intact. jaizei posted the proof for you back in post #2. Here's the link again:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/Thread-Delores-Eggs-Hatching#axzz1fWek6ZRj
You can clearly see the baby pipping out of a broken egg. This egg was at the top of the nest and I broke it with my finger tips while digging them up. It was smashed in two places. This is not a unique experience for me. It happens regularly. 

Oh, I mean cracked eggs hatching, NOT me clumsily cracking my own eggs...


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## TylerStewart

Yes, this last year I had a clutch of sulcata eggs laid with about 6 or 8 of them cracked or dinged. I put the cracked ones in a separate container (in case they went bad, it wouldn't spoil the good eggs) and all but one of them hatched. I didn't do anything to them besides orient the "dent" to the top side (they were dug up immediately after hatching). We have rocky ground here too, and usually the cracked eggs I find are the first ones laid (bottom of the pile), probably landed on a rock or something like that.


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## Neal

I've experienced the same as Tom and Tyler. Last year I dug up a clutch underneath a tree and when I stood up I hit a branch and knocked the container of eggs over which cracked a couple. That ended up being the clutch with the most that hatched out. 

Someone recommended I use New Skin on the cracked eggs, I didn't and they hatched out OK, but that might be an idea if you are concerned.


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## Tom

Neal said:


> I've experienced the same as Tom and Tyler. Last year I dug up a clutch underneath a tree and when I stood up I hit a branch and knocked the container of eggs over which cracked a couple. That ended up being the clutch with the most that hatched out.
> 
> Someone recommended I use New Skin on the cracked eggs, I didn't and they hatched out OK, but that might be an idea if you are concerned.



Maybe you've hit on a new way to increase hatch rates! We should all drop our eggs and give them a jolt before putting them in the incubator!


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## Neal

It's worth a shot maybe, but the increase in hatch rates for me was from the low teens to the low 30's....there's gotta be something more beneficial than dropping them.


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## TylerStewart

Neal said:


> It's worth a shot maybe, but the increase in hatch rates for me was from the low teens to the low 30's....there's gotta be something more beneficial than dropping them.



PSSSST.... For leopards, it's called _diapause_. But don't tell nobody!


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## ALDABRAMAN

Tom said:


> Neal said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've experienced the same as Tom and Tyler. Last year I dug up a clutch underneath a tree and when I stood up I hit a branch and knocked the container of eggs over which cracked a couple. That ended up being the clutch with the most that hatched out.
> 
> Someone recommended I use New Skin on the cracked eggs, I didn't and they hatched out OK, but that might be an idea if you are concerned.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe you've hit on a new way to increase hatch rates! We should all drop our eggs and give them a jolt before putting them in the incubator!
Click to expand...


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## Neal

TylerStewart said:


> PSSSST.... For leopards, it's called _diapause_. But don't tell nobody!



Actually Tyler, I believe the Diapause was an old wooden ship used in the Civil War era.


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## Katherine

Tyler and Tom; your cracked eggs hatch without any encouragement? My eggs which are dinged or cracked (and I am only referring to those with intact inner membranes) will occasionally start developing but eventually they dry out without some type of barrier over the shell injury. The humidity in my incubator is around 80% until it is hatching time (then I up it) so I am curious under what conditions yours do not dry out.

My hatch rates are damn near 100% for uninjured eggs (occasionally I will have one egg out of a clutch fail but very very rarely) so I am pretty positive these eggs are fertile. So far using a petroleum jelly to cover the shell crack seems to be working well, but I can't be sure it's a success until they hatch healthy babies. Aside from orienting the dent/fissure towards the top are you guys doing anything differently?

Sidenote: I am upto my eyeballs in tortoises and truly do not NEED these eggs to hatch; I am just infinitely curious about how to successfully patch and hatch them : )

Perhaps I need to take them out and tango with them per Neal's experience


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## TylerStewart

Correct, I don't do anything to them besides turn the ding to the top (which I only do so that there's no pressure being released from the weight of the interior egg trying to push out the crack). They're not really "cracked" eggs, but small dings maybe 1/4" diameter with the little spiderweb pattern they get when dinged. If it was a very significant crack, I wouldn't expect it to hatch, but with a minor ding, mine hatch more often than not. In the past I would throw them away, not wanting to soil the incubator with an obviously bad egg, but the last few years they've been hatching well above 50%. I do still separate them, though, just so I can keep an eye on them more often than I do the apparently perfect eggs. I incubate them all in sealed containers (no air holes) and probably check for bad eggs once a month. The containers are clear so I can see the eggs clearly, but I don't open them or move them much at all. I (secretly) tend to think that split scutes can be caused by bumping the eggs (from moving containers), even though I know that's a debatable topic, I just don't think it's completely temperature related because I get occasional splits from eggs that were nowhere near a high or low temperature range. I also get them occasionally from a single baby incubated in the center of a clutch of 20+ other eggs that all turned out perfect (maybe one egg was looser in the vermiculite when I moved it???). Another topic, sorry, but I do try to not touch the eggs or containers at all, it just invites mistakes. They don't need air holes or ventilation, as they clearly are getting next to none in the ground. I don't measure humidity in my containers, but a safe guess would be that it's at or near 100%.


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## Katherine

Thanks for responding with details. Interesting take on split scutes, it's anyone's guess until someone can prove it! I try not ti handle them regardless; as you said just invites mistakes. I incubate in clear containers but with several airholes, for me it's more about mold prevention and temp control more than anything else so next time I have a cracked egg ( and when I say cracked I am definitely meaning 'dinged' or those slight pressure fissures from dropping on something solid, not a full on crack) I will eliminate the holes in my incubation container, perhaps with higher humidity I will see better results. Thanks again for your (and everyone else's too!) input! : )


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## cdmay

I'm late on getting to this thread but I have two points to add...in my experience the best thing to use for cracked eggs is Superglue. PERIOD.
It dries almost immediately, is non-toxic and doesn't have heavy fumes like other glues. Plus, I think it was originally made to use on wounds in emergency situations so if doctors can glue a person's cut back together with it, it is probably OK for tortoise eggs. You might get away with other glues but for me, Superglue is the only choice. 
But don't glue the entire egg over--just the crack.
Second, I have no experience with sulcata eggs myself but my friend Eric Holt hatches literally, 2000 to 3000 sulcata eggs per year. He says that he has no success hatching sulcata eggs that are damaged during the laying process, which is in line with what EricIvins claims. 
But if Tom says he has had success with such eggs I would take his word for it.


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## TylerStewart

katherine said:


> Thanks for responding with details. Interesting take on split scutes, it's anyone's guess until someone can prove it! I try not ti handle them regardless; as you said just invites mistakes. I incubate in clear containers but with several airholes, for me it's more about mold prevention and temp control more than anything else so next time I have a cracked egg ( and when I say cracked I am definitely meaning 'dinged' or those slight pressure fissures from dropping on something solid, not a full on crack) I will eliminate the holes in my incubation container, perhaps with higher humidity I will see better results. Thanks again for your (and everyone else's too!) input! : )



The temperature control would be more stable if there was no air holes.... If the eggs are sealed, a quick opening of the incubator wouldn't allow a burst of cooler air in the holes. The overall container might briefly drop a few degrees, but if it's sealed, the temperature inside will be more stable to short term temperature changes than it would with the holes (same reason insulated shipping boxes should never have air holes in them). The mold issue shouldn't be humidity related.... Something has to "fuel" the mold. Mold won't grow on a clean (sterile) surface. If there's tortoise feces stuck to an egg, for example, that would mold eventually, but clean vermiculite or perlite and clean eggs shouldn't grow mold at all. I don't wash off the eggs, but sand or dirt wont really grow mold either unless there's some kinda contamination in it. A live, healthy egg shouldn't mold (unless contaminated). Once an egg starts to go bad, it would discolor and eventually mold. Like I said, mine are at 100% humidity in their incubator, and if I saw mold, there would have to be something in there "fueling" it (feces would mold, dead cricket would mold, egg going bad could mold, etc). Hope that makes sense.... 

I'll make an effort to better document the next round of dinged eggs.... I could have easily taken a photo of the dinged eggs after being laid and another of them hatching. Tom could probably beat me to this; I don't expect many sulcata eggs for a few months.


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## Tom

I don't do anything to the dinged eggs either. I just put the ding at the top and incubate them with the rest of them. I also incubate in closed plastic shoe boxes, but I drill a total of four quarter inch holes on the sides, near the tops. Like Katherine, once I set them up initially, I don't mess with the moisture or humidity until just before they hatch. Interesting that the three guys from the very dry climates all successfully incubate cracked ones, and the two people from the humid climate do not. Hmmm...


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## Katherine

katherine said:


> This has been my experience too; I have yet to successfully hatch one and I always incubate them separate from healthy eggs anticipating their demise. I intend to keep experimenting though (however futile it may be ; ) ) thanks for the Ca advice!



This has been my experience no longer. Sealed a wounded egg with sterile petroleum jelly and today a little tortoise began kicking its way out with vigor. She's early too. The blob on the top of the egg is the sterile petroleum jelly, just oriented it upward and incubated it independently of the other eggs incase it didn't work out. 








Re: "cracked sulcata eggs will NEVER hatch"


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## Neal

Very cool.


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## tortadise

Fantastic. That's also what I use. Or vasoline. Its amazing actually. I usually always catch the eggs as they're dropped but one time I missed a clutch. A few of the eggs had very big holes just on the exterior of the shell. I put some vasoline on them and they all still hatched.


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## LeaderLeprechaun

too cool. gotta keep this in mind later down the road


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