# Year old tortoise with small appetite, not growing



## EKLC (Nov 26, 2011)

Hi TF,

My leopard tortoise is about 1 year and 2 months old. In August I saw some bubbles and the vet put him on antibiotics for two weeks. She cleared him on the recheck, but it lingered back and I had a few more appointments to make sure he was alright over the next month. 

Now, 3 month later the bubbles are mostly gone, but he has had an unnaturally small appetite for a few weeks now. He is a bit more vigorous in grazing (though still not eating a huge volume), but I pretty much have to force him to eat any prepared food. Typical daily consumption includes a few bites of cactus, a few bites of greens, and more recently half a pellet of mazuri at best. He also does not poop very often, I'd say once every 4-5 days, even with warm daily soaks.

His weight is about 56 grams, which is the same as when he was weighed in August. I'm wondering if the antiobiotics might have destroyed some gut flora, and perhaps some probiotic supplement might help. Also, curious if appetite stimulant products would be useful here. I appreciate any suggestions.

Thanks,

Evan


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## kimber_lee_314 (Nov 26, 2011)

I'm concerned that 3 months later he still has a bubbly nose. What kind of antibiotics did he take? Can you tell us more about your set up - the temps, lighting, and humidity?


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## EKLC (Nov 26, 2011)

kimber_lee_314 said:


> I'm concerned that 3 months later he still has a bubbly nose. What kind of antibiotics did he take? Can you tell us more about your set up - the temps, lighting, and humidity?



IM injection of Ceftazidime every 3 days. Setup is a ZooMed tortoise box, with plastic lining, cypress mulch substrate. 75 watt incandescent basking light and CHE for night time. Cool side temps are 80 and dry (40% humidity), warm side temps are 85 and 70%+ humidity, basking spot is 100. The enclosure is covered to prevent moisture loss. He goes outside daily for UVB, since I live in Florida, cold days he gets MVB. Nighttime temps are 80+.


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## EKLC (Nov 27, 2011)

Any opinions?


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## Redstrike (Nov 27, 2011)

I don't know this for sure, but I would guess gut flora, or lack thereof, probably doesn't drive appetite. In any case, have you tried any probiotics to regenerate the hypothesized loss of gut flora? I think Carolina Pet Supply sells them and Zoo Med Grassland diet does contain some cultures (I use the Forest Tortoise diet occasionally and they have them listed as an ingredient). 

Again, I'm not entirely sure that a loss of gut co-inhabitants would influence your torts appetite, but some probiotics could help? How does his/her stools look? Are they loose and runny, solid, etc.? I'm thinking along the lines of a parasite load...? If you're hypothesized loss of gut parasites is true (seems reasonable given 2 weeks of antibiotics) it's possible that a low population of parasites was able to bloom in the absence of their competitors (gut flora). I'm sure you've spent a lot of $$$ addressing the URI, but perhaps a stool sample is in order? Flagellates might be causing some discomfort and reducing your torts appetite?

This is a lot of speculation, I wouldn't panic, but perhaps get a stool sample if possible. I'm just trying to think why your tort's appetite would diminish, no doubt it has been stressed and this could simply be it (no parasites).


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## Laura (Nov 27, 2011)

I would add babyfood or liquid bird vitamins to his warm soaks. 
and check for parasites like mentioned. 
good luck...


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## EKLC (Nov 27, 2011)

Thank you for the suggestions. Would parasites cause a loss in appetite? I will try and get a stool sample, luckily there's a great exotics vet close to me. Does the vet need the stool sample to be fresh (same day?) or can I just refrigerate it in a plastic bag. Thanks.


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## Laura (Nov 27, 2011)

fresh is best.. but you can get a sample and put in a baggie in the fridge. same day...


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## webskipper (Nov 27, 2011)

Can you give us a picture of the cage? Tell us more about your setup?

Let's try to correct the nutrition and let the body fix itself. Medicine can only do so much.

Have you tried Spring Mix either organic or in a hard container? Fruits?

A 100 watt Zoomed Reptisun is the most common lamp used. It has been proven that UVB is only emitted in sufficient amounts in 100 watt or higher.

Shells grow like big toe nails, it's going to take time to see new growth.


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## EKLC (Nov 27, 2011)

I'll get a picture of the setup for you guys, just need to let the camera charge.

The vet and I were of like mind with you webskipper, in regards to letting him heal and keeping the husbandry perfect. Especially since I caught the runny nose early and he never progressed beyond clear bubbles. 

In regards to nutrition, he has been not only very picky, but extremely capricious. Last week he would only eat cactus that was served outdoors or handfed. This week he'll only take bites of mazuri. He has shunned greens he once loved, such as escarole and dandelions. The only constant is that he still wants to graze, so I am quickly growing some chia. I am not sure why, but he will always pick at growing plants, but ignores food that is fed to him. It is rare that I am in the place where he can graze though, so he needs to eat food that is served to him.

The vet also commented on his small size, but thought everything was ok. However this was a month and a half ago and he has remained the same size. I am all for slow growth, but worry when I don't see progression in weight.

I use the 100W powersun when I can't take him out in 4+ UV-index sun


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## dmmj (Nov 27, 2011)

I would first check for parasites, a parasite bloom can cause appetite problems. As for gaining weight if after the parasite checks come back clean and he has no other health problems I would not worry to much about no weight or size gain, I would only worry if he starts to lose weight.


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## ascott (Nov 27, 2011)

I have a CDT that was ripped straight from the desert here in California by some idiot....This tortoise would NOT NOT NOT eat anything that was purchased and served, nor would he take food from my hand...the first couple of years he would strictly graze (so it was uber important for me to make sure he always had something growing in his yard, which was a HUGE task here in the high desert...but we managed...I mean he would not even touch watermelon!!!!! So, in the last year--maybe two he has begun to accept goodies from me and he will now eat just about anything (almost) however, he absolutely will chow down on lets say watermelon and then suddenly will stop and walk away and leave good watermelon there ---he is great at regulating his sugar intake, I am so jealous of his will power....lol

So, I would if I were faced with this again (especially since your tortoise is small and space indoors does not have to be a gigantic as a near grown CDT....I would plant flats of seedlings and rotate them out to see which mix he likes best...fresh in the dirt is always best and should be first choice ---but continue to offer him some of the things you feel you need to so he become use to those items for when the cool months limit your variety, you know?


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## EKLC (Nov 27, 2011)

Plastic enclosure to keep humidity and heat in






basking rock





shady side





a few of his hides





leroy brown himself (webcam, sorry)


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## webskipper (Nov 27, 2011)

Cage looks fine. The tent is fine.humidity can't really be regulated in an open container and outdoor UV is tops.

Ever tried bean sprouts or water crest? The water crest came in its own pot which I watered in the cage. I got an organic super market here so I've introduced lots of stuff to my Greeks.

Before that I was growing 2 yards of fresh plants in the tort table. Mostly dichondria (seeds from home depot). A flat of dichondria from the greenhouse lasted a few weeks with 3 yearlings.

I'd definitely try feeding seed sprouts.


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## Maggie Cummings (Nov 27, 2011)

I'm on an African tortoise list serve and the group talks about Leopards not pooping like Sulcata. They say Leo's only poop every 4 to 5 days. I hope that helps you...


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## EKLC (Nov 27, 2011)

webskipper, dichondra is actually his favorite graze food, haven't seen it cultivated though

and maggie, thanks that is relieving to know!

We'll see how he takes to enclosure plants and in the meantime get a stool sample


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## EKLC (Dec 14, 2011)

Hi guys, just an update.

He started eating a bit more last two weeks, including some mazuri. He still is a very small eater and has not gained weight. That makes 4 months at or around 56 grams. Stool test revealed no parasites. Runny eyes and the occasional bubble still persist


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