# chains?!



## jeskamarie (Mar 23, 2009)

Hi guys,

I've been hearing some terrible rumors and I'm wondering if anything is being done? 

Yesterday, my cousin was telling me about a person she met who owns a few tortoises - pretty large ones - that have apparently grown so large they became a "flight risk"...so the couple who owns them drilled hooks into the tops of their shells and chained them to the wall. 

I almost cried when I heard this. The sad thing is, I heard a similar story from a friend a few months ago - different people, _different _tortoises! I can't imagine these tortoises can't feel it...and it kills me to think that someone would think it's OK to hurt an animal in this manner, and for such selfish reasons. 

Am I wrong? Is there any scientific proof out there, explaining the negative effects of this unseemly practice? I'm considering going on my own rescue mission (through the local turtle and tortoise society, of course), and I'd like to be fully prepared...


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## egyptiandan (Mar 23, 2009)

In the bad old days this was done quite often. A person would drill a hole in the rear marginal scutes. A chain would be attached and the other end attached somewhere. You don't see it much done now a days, but some of the old timers would recommend doing as they did it.
No scientific evidence, but it's definately considered cruelty. Tortoise usually pull on the chain so much that it wears through the shell. I have seen old tortoise where they have done this 3 or 4 times. 
The last ones I saw were in Spain a few years ago.

Danny


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## Crazy1 (Mar 23, 2009)

I know years ago people use to drill holes in the shells of torts and tether them so they could not escape. We now view this a cruel with good reason.

This is what http://www.chelonia.org/Articles/basictortare.htm states; 
It is cruel and inhumane to drill holes in the shell edges for the purpose of tying up a tortoise or tethering it by the leg. 

http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=17+1797&aid=2700
Shells have a blood and nerve supply, so bleeding and pain can result if the shell is injured.


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## jorrow (Mar 23, 2009)

In my opinion no animal should be tied. If you think about it, its not only physical abuse but affects them mentaly as well. Me i'll stick with fences.


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## jeskamarie (Mar 23, 2009)

Crazy1 said:


> I know years ago people use to drill holes in the shells of torts and tether them so they could not escape. We now view this a cruel with good reason.
> 
> This is what http://www.chelonia.org/Articles/basictortare.htm states;
> It is cruel and inhumane to drill holes in the shell edges for the purpose of tying up a tortoise or tethering it by the leg.
> ...



Thanks for these sites (great info here)! I've bookmarked them for future reference. 

I plan to keep on "spreading the word." It's amazing to me how ignorant and cruel people can be. Let's hope things continue to change for the better...



egyptiandan said:


> In the bad old days this was done quite often. A person would drill a hole in the rear marginal scutes. A chain would be attached and the other end attached somewhere. You don't see it much done now a days, but some of the old timers would recommend doing as they did it.
> No scientific evidence, but it's definately considered cruelty. Tortoise usually pull on the chain so much that it wears through the shell. I have seen old tortoise where they have done this 3 or 4 times.
> The last ones I saw were in Spain a few years ago.
> 
> Danny




That is just terrible! Thanks for the info though; this gives me more perspective...if people don't know it's wrong and don't care to look into it, they have no reason to stop doing this...


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## DuttonWebb (Mar 23, 2009)

thats pretty hardcore. how would you like it if someone stuck a chain through your spine.


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## Yvonne G (Mar 23, 2009)

DuttonWebb said:


> thats pretty hardcore. how would you like it if someone stuck a chain through your spine.



Actually, Dutton, they drill a small hole through one of the marginals (that's on the edge of the carapace). I have a desert tortoise who has a hole in the marginal just above his right back leg. He is also missing half of that leg. Let your imagination tell you that story!

Yvonne


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## Laura (Mar 23, 2009)

Any way to find out where these people are and try to Educate them?!


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## DuttonWebb (Mar 24, 2009)

emysemys said:


> DuttonWebb said:
> 
> 
> > thats pretty hardcore. how would you like it if someone stuck a chain through your spine.
> ...



caught in a meteor shower?


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## purpod (Mar 24, 2009)

The ignorances of peeps & their complacency in such never ceases to amaze me! Thank goodness for the good peeps who understand that *all* critters have physical feelings & mental ones ~ not just human critters!

Blessings,
Purpod


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## Yvonne G (Mar 24, 2009)

DuttonWebb said:


> emysemys said:
> 
> 
> > caught in a meteor shower?
> ...


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## DuttonWebb (Mar 24, 2009)

emysemys said:


> DuttonWebb said:
> 
> 
> > emysemys said:
> ...


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## desertsss (Apr 5, 2009)

I have a very simple answer. If you can't properly/humanely care for the animals you choose to take in, then don't take them in. Just like these people that adopt wild cats and then keep them in tiny cages because they are too scared of them (cuz they're wild) roaming through their acreage. I think the problem is that too many people are naive, and don't fully educate themselves. I wasn't fully educated before I decided to get my torts, but I DID know what I was getting myself into. A lifelong pal who might outlive me, and will eventually become very large. If I ever thought I would be needing to tie these guys up I wouldn't have ever taken them in. With the correct housing there shouldn't be much of a flight risk.


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## richalisoviejo (Apr 5, 2009)

jorrow said:


> In my opinion no animal should be tied. If you think about it, its not only physical abuse but affects them mentaly as well. Me i'll stick with fences.



I have to agree. I wouldnÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t have a pet if the only way of keeping him were to chain him.


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## Yvonne G (Apr 6, 2009)

And if you've ever seen a tortoise that is tethered, you will see that they don't understand why they can't move. They just keep walking, walking, walking ... in the same place.

Yvonne


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## purpod (Apr 17, 2009)

Yvonne, I just can't imagine; what a very sad image that brings to mind!
 Purpod



emysemys said:


> And if you've ever seen a tortoise that is tethered, you will see that they don't understand why they can't move. They just keep walking, walking, walking ... in the same place.
> 
> Yvonne


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## terryo (Apr 18, 2009)

This reminds me of the R. B. circus, that I went to when I was a kid, where the elephants were chained. My Father, who I apparently take after, cried all the way home on the train. When they come to NY, none of my family ever goes. It is a horrible site to see these majestic animals performing tricks, with no dignity. I would feel the same way seeing a Tortoise chained.


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## Gulf Coast (Apr 23, 2009)

How horribly sad. We have a macaw and his first owner use to put him outside on a T post and chain his leg so he couldnt fly off.. Horrible stupid people out there..


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## sift (May 19, 2009)

Gulf Coast said:


> How horribly sad. We have a macaw and his first owner use to put him outside on a T post and chain his leg so he couldnt fly off.. Horrible stupid people out there..



I'm curious; did they use a chain or jesses? Hunting birds (even those kept in wildlife sanctuaries and so on and so forth) have jesses that tie them to their perches or that their handlers hold onto when they're carrying them around. If it was an actual chain, though, that's definitely horrible. 


As for the tortoises, I can't imagine how horrible it must be to witness them walking and walking and never getting anywhere. I know it bothers me just to see them behind glass at a petstore when they keep rubbing their little faces against it trying to get where they can't possibly go.


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## Gulf Coast (Jun 11, 2009)

it was a chain.. kind of like you would use on a small/med size dog.. Not a leash but an actual chain.. He used something that looked like a U with a screw thru it, he would stick this around his leg hook the chain to it and there he would stay until it was time to head back inside..

Edit to say.. I'm sorry, I didnt see your question until now.


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## dmmj (Jun 11, 2009)

sad, very sad, I know this was a common pracitce a long time ago. I honestly cant beleive anyone would do this now adays though, I think a little friendly education is needed here. Honestly it could be ignorance.


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## lgdpt (Jun 12, 2009)

DuttonWebb said:


> emysemys said:
> 
> 
> > DuttonWebb said:
> ...


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## Crazy1 (Jun 12, 2009)

Travis, then her torch has now been passed to you, to give her the best life can offer her and make her days filled with no fear and only pleasure. Hopefully under your tender touch she will come to realize you mean her no harm and only good. 
It's a good thing you found each other.


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## lgdpt (Jun 13, 2009)

I think so Robyn! Thank you.


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