# Hermanns breeding group



## Unique Username (Aug 31, 2019)

I currently have a 2-3 year old male hermanns who is a slight pacer (reflecting some territorial behavior.) I would like to form a breeding group with other juveniles but am unsure. Obviously I know and hope eggs wouldn't appear for another few years for health reasons. I'm am only worried that If i tried to add 3 females to his enclosure (4x8 indoor, 10x20 outdoor) what is the chances of them getting along over time/him not instantly trying to breed undeveloped females. What is the right way to form a herd? Basically is there any chance of it going smoothly or should I wait another few years and introduce them all as adults.


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## G-stars (Aug 31, 2019)

When it comes to breeding and/or keeping multiple tortoises in the same enclosure it is always a good idea to have a separate enclosure ready for each tortoise. There can be male on male, female to female, male to female, and female to male aggression in almost any species, even the non aggressive species. It may not present itself immediately, it may take days, weeks, months, or even years before aggression is observed. So always keep that in mind.

So to answer your question; on how to form a herd it will vary on the species, the sex ratio of the herd, the time of year (breeding season), and the aggression of each tortoise.


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## Unique Username (Sep 1, 2019)

G-stars said:


> When it comes to breeding and/or keeping multiple tortoises in the same enclosure it is always a good idea to have a separate enclosure ready for each tortoise. There can be male on male, female to female, male to female, and female to male aggression in almost any species, even the non aggressive species. It may not present itself immediately, it may take days, weeks, months, or even years before aggression is observed. So always keep that in mind.
> 
> So to answer your question; on how to form a herd it will vary on the species, the sex ratio of the herd, the time of year (breeding season), and the aggression of each tortoise.


So it's always a play it by ear situation. What would u recomend for my position (time of year, age, species). Also what some of the more subtle signs of agression? I know guarding food can be one but what else.


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## Blackdog1714 (Sep 1, 2019)

Crowding out of the hide, bumping, obviously mounting, but as simple as tone always stays exactly opposite of the other in the hide (One in warm side one in cold side). From what I have learned on TFO is that even with a giant space dominance will always have to be established and maintained. So in a smaller space the maintanence of the dominance is almost continuous since there is no room to escape. Best of luck


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## SweetGreekTorts (Sep 1, 2019)

Unique Username said:


> So it's always a play it by ear situation. What would u recomend for my position (time of year, age, species). Also what some of the more subtle signs of agression? I know guarding food can be one but what else.


Signs of bullying and aggression include: hogging the food dish (including one tortoise sitting on top to not allow other tortoises to eat), crowding under the basking lamp (it may look like cuddling but it's crowding to invade space), mounting, ramming, crowding in a hide when multiple places to sleep are available (another invasion of space), chasing/following, etc. If you notice that one tortoise is hiding more and eating less, then it needs its own space because it's being picked on by the others.


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## Tom (Sep 1, 2019)

It is my preference to let juvenile females grow up separately from any males. I usually have groups of females all living together with no males until they reach breeding size and maturity. Then, I like to introduce the males periodically for breeding. I find that this method keeps the stress levels on the females to a minimum. It certainly can be done where they live together full time as adults, but I think they should be separate after the baby stage, and before maturity. My sulcatas all live together full time with one male and two or three females. For my other species, I give the females some peace and quiet when its not breeding time.

Don't forget to quarantine any and all new arrivals separately from all your other tortoises, and perform all your vet checks prior to introduction.


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## Unique Username (Sep 4, 2019)

Tom said:


> It is my preference to let juvenile females grow up separately from any males. I usually have groups of females all living together with no males until they reach breeding size and maturity. Then, I like to introduce the males periodically for breeding. I find that this method keeps the stress levels on the females to a minimum. It certainly can be done where they live together full time as adults, but I think they should be separate after the baby stage, and before maturity. My sulcatas all live together full time with one male and two or three females. For my other species, I give the females some peace and quiet when its not breeding time.
> 
> Don't forget to quarantine any and all new arrivals separately from all your other tortoises, and perform all your vet checks prior to introduction.


Seems the most logically, besides space there is no benefit to pair before maturity. Thank you for the input everyone.


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## HoosierTort (Sep 7, 2019)

With a 10’x20’ outdoor enclosure, you’d be fine with a 1.4 or even 2.10. Some advice I got from a very good breeder... you only need one breeding male. You can add in a male from a different subspecies to get the hormones going for breeding. I have all three Hermann’s and it’s how I do my breeding program. Put a male eastern in with my westerns when it’s time for mating. 
Just a thought for you.


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