# RT sick from coconut coir ?? PLEASE HELP !!



## kiki413 (Mar 17, 2012)

About two months ago, we were given two male Russian Tortoises from a friend who has been traveling a lot and wanted the RTs to be taken care of. Timmy and Boris were in a large tank with pellets as substrate. They have a flourescent lamp and a ceramic heating bulb. 

She told me that right after she had first bought the RTs, Timmy became sick and wouldn't eat because he was eating the "bedding". After a couple of weeks, I found mold growing in clumps in the pellets, especially near their wading pool. And in my RT research, I read that it was bad for them to walk on and that the dust created respiratory problems and that most people recommended a 50/50 mix of coconut coir and play sand. So I went out and purchased 3 large bricks of the coir and a large bag of play sand. I mixed it up, cleaned out their tank and added the expanded bricks of coir and some sand. I set up their tank and put them back in...I watched them and was happy to see that they LOVED it. They were running around and digging. They started making their little beds out of timothy hay and the substrate. 

Sorry, I'm just trying to add as much info as I can ;O)

Long story short, last night, my friend visited and after seeing the torts, she asked me what the substrate was. I told her it was coir and she said that was what Timmy had eaten years ago and had stopped eating and had to be brought back to Petco to be nursed back to health !! (I assumed that the coir was not "bedding") And as soon as she said that, I noted that he had been sleeping a lot lately. Immediatly I took Timmy out of the tank and put him in a large cardboard box for now, with the pellets. And I soaked him for 15 minutes or so. Gave him fresh lettuce and even a 1/2 cherry tomato (he LOVES them), and he didn't even touch it :O(
Now I am really worried about him. I realize that I should take him to the vet but we are in no financial state to do that. I thought I was doing the right thing by taking them and give them love and proper care...and now I feel just awful that I made this poor guy sick.

Could anyone please give me any advice as to what I should do ? Thank you in advance for any help you could offer <3


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## dmmj (Mar 17, 2012)

Welcome to the forum.
Coconut coir by itself is not dangerous, unless they are eating enough of it to cause compaction and I would imagine that would be a lot. There oculd be a lot of reason why he is not eating. How warm was he when you offered food? a cold tortoise usually does not eat. The light cycle ( being winter in the US) could affect him. Was it only today he has not eaten? is the other one eating?


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## ascott (Mar 17, 2012)

I would say first of all, take a breath...

Coco coir is not going to harm your tortoise unless as Captain says he is chowing down on alot and he is not hydrated....so just because he may sample it from time to time there is no reason to worry....however, I personally do not like sand being used as substrate...too much increase rick of impaction if they eat it---sand does not move through their digestive system the same way as soil does---sand is heavier and begins to deposit bits in the digestive track and if the tortoise is not well hydrated then the pieces that begin to stay in their digestive track start to build onto one another until it becomes impacted....however, some folks use sand as part of their substrate mix and have no problems---it is just my personal preference...

I would say that if you quickly moved him out of his comfy enclosure and plopped him in a cardboard box and then put food in front of him....I would venture to lay a bet he is not going to gobble it up, especially just because you want him to  this in itself does not mean he is sick...

I also would venture to say that those icky pellets molding and also the dust that they create would have likely been the start of anything more than the coco coir...also, you pointed out that the torts were becoming sick on the pellets....then you plopped them into coco coir and you say that they loved it....then your friend stops by and freaks you out...so you plop them yet again into another enclosure....I am thinking that I am not surprised they/he didn't chow down....

I would make sure that you are misting the coco coir, keep the heat at the appropriate levels, make sure that you are soaking them every day, offer them food on a flat soil free spot, offer a water drinking/soaking dish in their enclosure and let them settle in....let them get a sense of security with an enclosure...and don't worry if you see them take a nibble from time to time of their substrate...they nibble out in the wild upon dirt ...so key is to be sure that they remain hydrated....

Just what I would do


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## RianSeeking (Mar 17, 2012)

I've never had trouble with coconut coir. Also, my Russian definitely reacts to the winter light cycle and spends most of his day sleeping. I do wake him up and make sure he eats and soaks.

I would first double check your temps before worrying about the coir.


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## kiki413 (Mar 17, 2012)

dmmj said:


> Welcome to the forum.
> Coconut coir by itself is not dangerous, unless they are eating enough of it to cause compaction and I would imagine that would be a lot. There oculd be a lot of reason why he is not eating. How warm was he when you offered food? a cold tortoise usually does not eat. The light cycle ( being winter in the US) could affect him. Was it only today he has not eaten? is the other one eating?



Thank you !! 
The temp in the tank was the same as usual. If anything, it may have been a little higher from the warm weather we had this past week. I haven't seen him eat for 2 days now 
And yes, Boris is his normal greedy self.


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## dmmj (Mar 17, 2012)

2 days for a tortoise is not anything to worry about.


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## kiki413 (Mar 17, 2012)

ascott said:


> I would say first of all, take a breath...
> 
> Coco coir is not going to harm your tortoise unless as Captain says he is chowing down on alot and he is not hydrated....so just because he may sample it from time to time there is no reason to worry....however, I personally do not like sand being used as substrate...too much increase rick of impaction if they eat it---sand does not move through their digestive system the same way as soil does---sand is heavier and begins to deposit bits in the digestive track and if the tortoise is not well hydrated then the pieces that begin to stay in their digestive track start to build onto one another until it becomes impacted....however, some folks use sand as part of their substrate mix and have no problems---it is just my personal preference...
> 
> ...



I'm breathing 
This is all very new to me !
I was just worried because yes, she scared me so my first thought was to take him out of it. I didn't even think about moving the poor guy around like that. 
I didn't say that they were becoming sick from the pellets,  I had read about how the pellets were not a good substrate and I saw some mold spots so I switched them to the coir with a little play sand. And yes, they loved it. But as soon as she told me about him having a problem with the coir, I was worried that I had done the wrong thing.

Your advice has been very helpful. Thank you much !!


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## kiki413 (Mar 17, 2012)

dmmj said:


> 2 days for a tortoise is not anything to worry about.



Thank you very much, Captain 
I appreciate your help.
I'm learning  

<3


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## kiki413 (Mar 17, 2012)

RianSeeking said:


> I've never had trouble with coconut coir. Also, my Russian definitely reacts to the winter light cycle and spends most of his day sleeping. I do wake him up and make sure he eats and soaks.
> 
> I would first double check your temps before worrying about the coir.



Thank you very much !! I really appreciate your help 

<3


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## dmmj (Mar 17, 2012)

kiki413 said:


> dmmj said:
> 
> 
> > 2 days for a tortoise is not anything to worry about.
> ...


We're here to help.
In all honesty I don't think anything is wrong with your tortoise.


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## kiki413 (Mar 17, 2012)

This forum is GREAT !!! 



dmmj said:


> kiki413 said:
> 
> 
> > dmmj said:
> ...



Thank you again, sir


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