# Iceberg Lettuce..



## EmiiileeRae (Jun 20, 2012)

Hey, I just got my Russian Tortoise a few days ago from a friend and he's about 5 years old. 
She gave me food, cage, heating pad and lamp, everything. 
But I went to feed him this morning, and noticed the food she gave me was not other than Iceberg Lettuce ): 
I know it's bad for them, and I don't know what to do. 
How should I wean him off it?
Other things he might like? 
He's not wanting to eat anything else /: 
I don't know how long he's been fed that.
He seems totally healthy though and is adapting to the move quite well.


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## dmmj (Jun 20, 2012)

I hope this does not sound confusing but iceberg is not bad, it is just not the best choice around IMHO. Stop feeding iceberg and he will eat other stuff. A diet full of weeds, leaves and flowers of various plants is good.


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## JoesMum (Jun 20, 2012)

Your tort is new and torts are very slow to adapt to change... it can take weeks to get used to a new home and start eating properly.

You need to start by establishing a routine so that your tort knows what to expect and when and learns to trust you and its home.

Make sure the temperatures are correct (a temperature gun can be bought from Amazon for around $30/Â£20) and start the day in the same way at the same time.

Lights on, heat on (use a timer) and then soak for a good 20 minutes (gets him used to being handled and keeps him hydrated while he's not eating properly). Feed him straight after his soak.

A hungry tortoise will eat, but they can be very stubborn and hold out for a couple of weeks before giving in. Just keep soaking so he stays hydrated. Feeding iceberg to a tort is like letting a child eat only candy... it's not a healthy diet! You have to be a strong Mom and insist the greens are eaten.

My soaking advice is here

Dietary advice for Russians is here


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## Yvonne G (Jun 20, 2012)

Hi EmiiileeRae:

Welcome to the Tortoise Forum!!

You can offer better-for-him greens mixed up with the iceburg lettuce. If he picks out the iceburg and leaves the better greens, then chop it all up small and mix it together. Over time, slowly reduce the amount of iceburg until eventually there's none in there.

If you set your new Russian (steppe) tortoise up outside, he would be able to graze on a more healthy diet all on his own. Its much easier to feed an outdoor tortoise who lives in a well-planted habitat.

*What would you like us to call you?*

...and may we know appx. where in the world you are?


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## Jacqui (Jun 20, 2012)

dmmj said:


> I hope this does not sound confusing but iceberg is not bad, it is just not the best choice around IMHO. Stop feeding iceberg and he will eat other stuff. A diet full of weeds, leaves and flowers of various plants is good.



I agree! Personally I would not be giving an adult Russian forced soaks as was suggested.  He or she should be smart enough to know when and if he wants to soak or drink on it's own. A wee hatchling under those hot lights, would be another matter.


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## JoesMum (Jun 20, 2012)

I only suggested soaks because he's new and settling in and not eating or active at the moment. One he's settled he'll be fine.


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## Jacqui (Jun 20, 2012)

I had read it as he had settled in fine and was acting healthy. That the only problem was he was not wanting to eat anything OTHER then his lettuce, not that he had stopped eating.  We both read the same comments and took them totally different ways.


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## Madkins007 (Jun 20, 2012)

Iceberg has gotten a bum rap. It does not have a terrible Ca: P (about 0.9:1- not too far below the 1:1 to 2:1 range we look for- lots of commonly offered foods, especially fruits and meats, are a lot worse!). It is also high in vitamin K, important for bone development; a moderate dose of fiber; some omega 3 and 6 oils; nitrogen; etc.

It is certainly not a good choice as a primary diet option, but there really is nothing really wrong with the stuff- for tortoises or humans! I think it plays a very useful role in adding bulk to a diet cheaply, and in providing a nice dose of water.

For some odd reason, we have declared that Iceberg lettuce and watermelon are 'just empty calories, mostly just water' and dismissed their benefits and value. Well... actually, we are sort of clearing up watermelon's reputation, but poor, cheap Iceberg is still widely considered a bad guy.


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## JoesMum (Jun 20, 2012)

i think the problem in this case is lack of variety. A diet mostly of iceberg lacks fibre... and as in any diet variety is the key to health.

Forming an occasional part of a wide range of foods there isn't a problem. If the tort is addicted to it and won't touch anything , there is!


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## Jacqui (Jun 20, 2012)

Madkins007 said:


> Iceberg has gotten a bum rap. It does not have a terrible Ca: P (about 0.9:1- not too far below the 1:1 to 2:1 range we look for- lots of commonly offered foods, especially fruits and meats, are a lot worse!). It is also high in vitamin K, important for bone development; a moderate dose of fiber; some omega 3 and 6 oils; nitrogen; etc.
> 
> It is certainly not a good choice as a primary diet option, but there really is nothing really wrong with the stuff- for tortoises or humans! I think it plays a very useful role in adding bulk to a diet cheaply, and in providing a nice dose of water.
> 
> For some odd reason, we have declared that Iceberg lettuce and watermelon are 'just empty calories, mostly just water' and dismissed their benefits and value. Well... actually, we are sort of clearing up watermelon's reputation, but poor, cheap Iceberg is still widely considered a bad guy.



Well written!


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## EmiiileeRae (Jun 20, 2012)

dmmj said:


> I hope this does not sound confusing but iceberg is not bad, it is just not the best choice around IMHO. Stop feeding iceberg and he will eat other stuff. A diet full of weeds, leaves and flowers of various plants is good.



I gave him some weeds and he's slowly eating them.
Just not devouring it like the other stuff. 
He hasn't touched any flowers yet.. 
I've been trying to give him some since I've gotten him.. 
(Dandelions)
I don't know if hes had them before /: 
Thank you


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## JoesMum (Jun 20, 2012)

He'll get there. Once he realises how good they taste, he'll pick out the flowers to eat first!


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## EmiiileeRae (Jun 20, 2012)

JoesMum said:


> Your tort is new and torts are very slow to adapt to change... it can take weeks to get used to a new home and start eating properly.
> 
> You need to start by establishing a routine so that your tort knows what to expect and when and learns to trust you and its home.
> 
> ...







I know he's still adapting, but he seems to be doing pretty good. 
The night of when he got here, he start to open up quite a bit  
I'm following the routine my friend said she did, except i take him outside when i don't think she ever did. I'm trying not to handle him too much because of how new we are to eachother, i don't want him to be scared more than he already is.. He's still pretty skiddish sometimes, but doesn't act aggressively at all. 
I'm going to get a thermometer for his tank. He has a heating pad and a light. The light isn't a heat lamp (but it lets off some warmth) so I'm looking into getting him one.
I've soaked him, and he hasn't drank any so i guess he's staying pretty hydrated. He sits in his water bowl a lot too. I think I might get him a little tub to put in there so he'll have more room. 
And thank you


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## EmiiileeRae (Jun 20, 2012)

emysemys said:


> Hi EmiiileeRae:
> 
> Welcome to the Tortoise Forum!!
> 
> ...




Thankyou! lol. 
oh okay. i kinda just took it all out and put some weeds in there until I'm able to get to the store and he seems to be eating some of it. just not devouring it like the iceberg lettuce. 
maybe i'll try that though.
I take him outside quite a bit but he doesn't seem to eat anything while he's out there. 
I don't like him being caged up all the time so i let him outside to hang out quite a bit 
I'm in North America. On the West Coast


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## JoesMum (Jun 20, 2012)

EmiiileeRae said:


> I'm going to get a thermometer for his tank. He has a heating pad and a light. The light isn't a heat lamp (but it lets off some warmth) so I'm looking into getting him one.


You must get a basking lamp as a priority. Your tort needs to bask at 95F to be able to digest his food properly. You'll need a proper lamp holder, but any household spot bulb will do to provide the heat (They're cheaper than the reptile versions) You will not see normal behaviour until you can get the heat levels sorted out.



EmiiileeRae said:


> I've soaked him, and he hasn't drank any so i guess he's staying pretty hydrated. He sits in his water bowl a lot too. I think I might get him a little tub to put in there so he'll have more room.
> And thank you


Torts can absorb water through their skin. You may not see him drink, but he's still taking water on board. It's because they do this that you must soak for such a long time.


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## EmiiileeRae (Jun 20, 2012)

Jacqui said:


> I had read it as he had settled in fine and was acting healthy. That the only problem was he was not wanting to eat anything OTHER then his lettuce, not that he had stopped eating.  We both read the same comments and took them totally different ways.



I'm sorry that I wasn't clear. 
He hadn't touched anything that I've tried giving him, until this morning. 
The only thing he did touch was a little piece of tomato i put in there. 
And i'm aware they're not supposed to have much of that either.
No he's trying a few of the weeds so at least now he's eating. 
I'll be headed to the store soon to get some other stuff for him to try as well


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## ascott (Jun 20, 2012)

Romaine, Red Leaf Lettuce, watermelon----are all good foods to offer as part of a varied diet.....each on their own alone as a daily food with no other variety---would be bad....even regular lettuce is fine as part of a varied diet.....problem with the yummy lettuces only comes into play if the torts begins to hold out and not want anything else...so that is why variety is good.....

I amp up the romaine, red leaf and watermelon during the hottest times of summer for the torts here...all of them...I want to be sure that they are hydrated from the inside out....I do soak the torts...all of them, but the babies get daily soaks and the others get soaked from time to time or they get sprinkler action....


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## Jacqui (Jun 21, 2012)

EmiiileeRae said:


> I've soaked him, and he hasn't drank any so i guess he's staying pretty hydrated. He sits in his water bowl a lot too. I think I might get him a little tub to put in there so he'll have more room.
> And thank you



If he is going into his bowl like that, then certainly no need to do more soaking. How long would you guess he is actually staying in the dish?

As for not liking the flowers or whatever, that too is is normal for some tortoises. Some will eat everything, while others take a long time to like this or that and some never like eating everything. The secret is to just keep offering it. 

Sounds like your doing great!


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## Madkins007 (Jun 22, 2012)

JoesMum said:


> i think the problem in this case is lack of variety. A diet mostly of iceberg lacks fibre... and as in any diet variety is the key to health.
> 
> Forming an occasional part of a wide range of foods there isn't a problem. If the tort is addicted to it and won't touch anything , there is!



The fiber comment caught my eye- and again Iceberg is getting a bum rap. Iceberg actually has more fiber per serving (3%) than Romaine (1%), green or red leaf (0%), or Bibb/Boston lettuce (1%).

Of course, just for comparison- cabbage has a whopping 21% and turnip greens are only 2%! (Which really surprised me- collards are only 1% Whodathunk?) Endive has 16%- whew! I was beginning to think all my favorite grocery store greens were in trouble!

However- it IS important to remember that if you are basing your tortoises (or your own) diet largely on grocery store greens, you are probably not getting anywhere near as much fiber as you think you are.



JoesMum said:


> (snip)
> Torts can absorb water through their skin.
> (snip)



This is a commonly repeated comment, but they only absorb water through the tissues of the cloaca. One of the characteristics that defines a reptile is having waterproof skin. (Wikipedia, from the entry on Reptiles- "Reptilian skin is covered in a horny epidermis, making it watertight and enabling reptiles to live on dry land, in contrast to amphibians. ")


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## Casey666 (Jun 22, 2012)

i usually feed my tort a mix of foods like carrots, broccoli, lettuce, and hosta that grows all over the place in our yard. you should try to start giving the tortoise iceburg lettuce with some other food then get rid of the iceburg lettuce


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