# URGENT!! Sick Sulcata Baby.. :(



## andrea0226 (Sep 29, 2020)

Hi everyone. I got my first Sulcata tortoise in August, he/she just turned two months. I did a lot of research before, but it’s still been nonstop stress. He’s been on a diet of grass and weeds up until five days ago. I introduced yellow squash without realizing that it’s a fruit. He was ok the next day and then he started getting sick. He didn’t poop for 2 days and then had a big poop. Haven’t seen him pee or seen any pee in his enclosure. He lost his appetite and became weak and lethargic. His eyes are sticky. Not stuck, but takes a while to open them and just seems to wanna keep them closed. Just lying in soaks, when usually he’s perked up during soaks. Stays under the basking light all day and all night. Today, he started swelling around his neck/throat area. And just looks different altogether. No signs of RI. I don’t know if all of this is coincidental, if something else made him sick, or if it was the squash??? I’m very worried. But I know that some of these babies just don’t make it. I posted in a Facebook group and they said to soak him 3x a day in a veggie soak and one warm water soak. I’m hoping I can get some insight from someone here.

First photo is from 4 days ago and second is from today..?

Here are his enclosure details.

Tortoise table with plastic/green house cover. Substrate is coco coir and organic top soil. Cool side is 75-80 degrees, warm side is 80-85 degrees. Basking is 92-95 degrees. Humidity ranges from 60-80, sometimes drops in the night to the 40’s. UVB light is a Reptisun T5 tube. Basking light is a 65w flood light bulb. Night warmth is a CHE. Night temps are 78-83


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## KarenSoCal (Sep 29, 2020)

Hello, and welcome to the forum. I'm so sorry hour baby is sick.

A couple questions...where did you get him? Name of breeder, pet shop, etc. And have you noticed any kind of yellow spots or bumps on his neck or legs?

If he's under his basking light all the time, he's probably too cold. The temps you posted are close, but need to be raised a bit. The cool side/nighttime temp should never fall below 80°F. Basking should be 95-100°. And humidity should never fall below 80% in any part of the enclosure.

The coco coir is good, but there should be no soil. Store bought soil is made by grinding up yard waste, trees, cuttings, etc. There is no way for you to know what was ground up. It could be a load of oleander or other toxic plants. It is also an impaction hazard if he eats any, and it can be an eye and skin irritant. Since coco coir gets messy and dusty when not damp enough, you can put a layer of cypress mulch or orchid bark (fine grade) over top of the coco.

Do the baby carrot soaks daily. Hopefully he will drink some of it. Keep it warm the whole time he's in it, 30 minutes minimum at 90-95°. Have you been weighing him? What is his current weight in grams?

I would make ,these changes ASAP and see if it helps at all. I'm posting a link to our care sheet. Read it and compare your methods to what is recommended. Something may pop out at you that needs corrected other than what I've mentioned. If you have any questions, please come back and ask. We're happy to explain why we say what we do.

BTW, you have the correct lights. Good for you!






The Best Way To Raise A Sulcata, Leopard, Or Star Tortoise


I chose the title of this care sheet very carefully. Are there other ways to raise babies? Yes. Yes there are, but those ways are not as good. What follows is the BEST way, according to 30 years of research and experimentation with hundreds of babies of many species. Babies hatch during the...




tortoiseforum.org


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## andrea0226 (Sep 29, 2020)

KarenSoCal said:


> Hello, and welcome to the forum. I'm so sorry hour baby is sick.
> 
> A couple questions...where did you get him? Name of breeder, pet shop, etc. And have you noticed any kind of yellow spots or bumps on his neck or legs?
> 
> ...



Thank you for the quick reply!! My temps were higher but the people on the Facebook group told me to lower them. Should humidity be 80 at night as well??

I got him from a breeder in Florida, Shadow’s Reptiles.

He hasn’t budged from 35g since the first time I weighed him (sept. 7)

I haven’t seen any yellow spots, but he looks yellow to me, all over, compared to a few days ago..

Any idea what could be going on??


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## KarenSoCal (Sep 29, 2020)

andrea0226 said:


> I got him from a breeder in Florida, Shadow’s Reptiles.
> 
> He hasn’t budged from 35g since the first time I weighed him (sept. 7)
> 
> ...



Oh, my, yes, I can take a pretty good guess.

I know nothing about Shadow's Reptiles...never heard of them. Immediately after hatching, babies need to be kept in high humidity. In their native habitat they hatch during the rainy season, so high humidity. And they go under plants to hide, where there are little microclimates that provide exactly the damp conditions they need, along with warmth. Or they are in their burrow that they control humidity by peeing/pooping to supply moisture.

Unfortunately, some breeders do not keep them in this humid atmosphere. Instead they have them in a dry environment. By dry, I mean less than 80% day and night. The baby becomes dehydrated, may start pyramiding, and suffer irreparable kidney damage, leading to what we call "hatchling failure syndrome". It would be better named "breeder failure syndrome".

The baby fails to thrive, almost never gets past 50 gms, and succumbs.

Some pull through. The main thing to remember is that if this is the problem, _it is not your fault. The only thing you can do is give the very best care and environment possible, to give him the support he needs to fight this! _No vet can do anything to treat him. There is no treatment.

I am heartbroken that I have to tell you something like this. But you need to understand, so if he gets worse and doesn't make it, you'll know it isn't your care, or lack of, that's making him sick. And it certainly isn't squash that caused it.

Hopefully, I am wrong. I pray that is the case. I can say that the FB groups will give bad advice, like lowering temps less than 80°. And humidity should be 80% all the time, day and night.

Here is a link to a thread about this. It will explain in more detail what I have said.

@Tom , what do you think about this?






"Hatchling Failure Syndrome"


I've heard this term for many years and I don't like it. Its a way to excuse our ignorance and failure. I will agree that an occasional hatchling is born that is just not going to make it no matter what anybody does, but MOST of them, if they make it full term and hatch, SHOULD survive and...




tortoiseforum.org


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## Toddrickfl1 (Sep 29, 2020)

This might be the same yellow spots were seeing.

@Pastel Tortie @mastershake


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## KarenSoCal (Sep 29, 2020)

Toddrickfl1 said:


> This might be the same yellow spots were seeing.
> View attachment 307561
> @Pastel Tortie @mastershake


This looks more orange, and like it's not attached. The OP said she didn't see any yellow bumps or spots, but she thinks he looks more yellow all over. Maybe jaundice from liver failure?


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## Tom (Sep 29, 2020)

andrea0226 said:


> Hi everyone. I got my first Sulcata tortoise in August, he/she just turned two months. I did a lot of research before, but it’s still been nonstop stress. He’s been on a diet of grass and weeds up until five days ago. I introduced yellow squash without realizing that it’s a fruit. He was ok the next day and then he started getting sick. He didn’t poop for 2 days and then had a big poop. Haven’t seen him pee or seen any pee in his enclosure. He lost his appetite and became weak and lethargic. His eyes are sticky. Not stuck, but takes a while to open them and just seems to wanna keep them closed. Just lying in soaks, when usually he’s perked up during soaks. Stays under the basking light all day and all night. Today, he started swelling around his neck/throat area. And just looks different altogether. No signs of RI. I don’t know if all of this is coincidental, if something else made him sick, or if it was the squash??? I’m very worried. But I know that some of these babies just don’t make it. I posted in a Facebook group and they said to soak him 3x a day in a veggie soak and one warm water soak. I’m hoping I can get some insight from someone here.
> 
> First photo is from 4 days ago and second is from today..?
> 
> ...



Hello and welcome. A few things:
Humidity is too low. And its not normal for humidity to drop at night. Normally it goes up as the lights go off ad things cool to 80.

Your temps are too low. Never below 80 anywhere any time. Ambient should get up around 90 during the day. Basking 95-100, so you are pretty close there.

This baby was not as old as they said it was when you got it. Its less than 6 weeks right now. The egg tooth drops off by six weeks.

Some squash in the diet is fine once in a while. That is not what made your baby sick.

Most likely explanation is what Karen explained. DO you know how the baby was started, or who hatched it?

Soil should never be used under a tortoise. Its made from composted yard waste and there is no way to tell what it is. Could be something toxic.

Your care is very close to being perfect. This is not the norm. Where did you learn to care for this baby this way?

Here is all the correct care and info:





The Best Way To Raise A Sulcata, Leopard, Or Star Tortoise


I chose the title of this care sheet very carefully. Are there other ways to raise babies? Yes. Yes there are, but those ways are not as good. What follows is the BEST way, according to 30 years of research and experimentation with hundreds of babies of many species. Babies hatch during the...




tortoiseforum.org


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## andrea0226 (Sep 29, 2020)

Tom said:


> Hello and welcome. A few things:
> Humidity is too low. And its not normal for humidity to drop at night. Normally it goes up as the lights go off ad things cool to 80.
> 
> Your temps are too low. Never below 80 anywhere any time. Ambient should get up around 90 during the day. Basking 95-100, so you are pretty close there.
> ...



Hi Tom!! Thank you.. before I got him, I did quite a bit of research, including lurking on here, and your care sheet was something I used as a guideline. But, unfortunately, there is so much conflicting information out there. It’s hard to know what’s right and what’s wrong. When I’d have an issue, I would post on a Facebook group and get all sorts of different advice.

Actually, this all started with that first picture. He was fine and eating grass, but I noticed his tongue was pale and posted it in the group. Everyone said he looked healthy. By the next day, he wasn’t the same.

I received him on Aug 18 and according to the breeder, he was hatched on July 20. The breeder started him on cypress mulch and top soil, with daily soaks, and eating hibiscus leaves. So that’s what I got, but he instantly seemed to have eye irritation. I initially thought it was the mulch, because it irritated my nose so I figured it might be irritating his as well. So I removed it. He’d wake up with soil on his face, and still had sticky eyes, so I cut the soil to 25% and added 75% coco coir. He seemed good for about 2 weeks. Until this.

I was afraid this might be failure to thrive. And I thought maybe a liver or kidney issue. He is not as puffy now, looks a little more normal. But still seems lethargic. He pooped a long turd this morning. Don’t see any pee. Honestly, I’d only witnessed him pee once in a soak. But I’d see little white, chalky stains in his enclosure, which I’m assuming were urates. Haven’t seen any lately.

I know that there is a good chance he might not make it, and I’m almost certain that it isn’t my fault, as I’ve set him up with all the bells and whistles and taken very good care of him since I got him. 

But, is there anything I should be doing during this time? I am currently doing food soaks 3x a day. They consist of grass, spring mix (minus spinach), carrot baby food, and mazuri. I was told in the Facebook group not to take him outside during this time.

Any advice?


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## Tom (Sep 29, 2020)

andrea0226 said:


> Any advice?


First and foremost, don't ask for, or take advice from the FB groups. Everything I've seen indicates those people are lunatics and impervious to any sort of factual info.

If the breeder soaked daily and used damp substrate, I don't suspect a case of breeder failure syndrome here.

This leads to more questions:
What media did the breeder incubate on?
Did the breeder use a brooder box for a week or so after hatching? What substrate in there?
Any perlite in the soil at the breeders, or at your place?

Your temps were a little but cool, but I don't think cool enough to cause this problem. I'd bumps temps up 5-10 degrees all around and see if things improve.

Also, can we see pics of the enclosure? Are you using indoor UV? What type?

I'll keep looking and see if we can eliminate some possible causes of your issue.


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## andrea0226 (Sep 29, 2020)

Tom said:


> First and foremost, don't ask for, or take advice from the FB groups. Everything I've seen indicates those people are lunatics and impervious to any sort of factual info.
> 
> If the breeder soaked daily and used damp substrate, I don't suspect a case of breeder failure syndrome here.
> 
> ...



I’m not sure about all of the breeder info. But he is on YouTube under Shadow’s Reptiles and I believe he takes in rescues as well, and seems to be pretty knowledgeable. He’s quick to reply when I’ve had issues. I haven’t talked to him about this, because I feel that whatever this is, it happened under my care and there isn’t much he can do to help.

My enclosure setup is a raised garden bed with a shower curtain draped over, to give a greenhouse effect. It has worked ok, but I feel that maybe the area is too big to keep humidity up, or maybe I need a humidifier with a stronger flow. I am currently using a decorative on with a hose attached that enters through a small hole in the plastic. The topsoil I have does not contain perlite, but it is rather smelly when it is used alone

The UVB light I am using is a Reptisun 10.0 T5, it hangs about 18 inches above the floor. He basks under a 65w flood light. They are both on a 12 hour timer. I use a CHE to regulate temps both night and day, it is plugged into a thermostat and temps have been bumped up. I may need a second one to warm it further though. Or maybe I’ll just go the plastic bin route.

Do you think he may have eaten something toxic? When I take him out, he nibbles grass, but goes crazy for straggler daisy, which is a moderate feed, according to Tortoise Table. Honestly, he hasn’t had that big of an appetite since I got him, but he did still have the belly button the first 2/3 weeks, so I know he was getting nutrients from there.

He is currently in a warm soak with the juice of carrots, arugula, baby lettuce from spring mix, Timothy hay, and some blended mazuri. He seems more alert today. His bottom eyelid seems to stick to his eye when he blinks though.


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## andrea0226 (Sep 29, 2020)

Tom said:


> First and foremost, don't ask for, or take advice from the FB groups. Everything I've seen indicates those people are lunatics and impervious to any sort of factual info.
> 
> If the breeder soaked daily and used damp substrate, I don't suspect a case of breeder failure syndrome here.
> 
> ...



Question: Can I put him in a small box with a CHE and no UVB, on paper towels, for the day? So I can get his enclosure cleaned out...


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## Tom (Sep 29, 2020)

andrea0226 said:


> I’m not sure about all of the breeder info. But he is on YouTube under Shadow’s Reptiles and I believe he takes in rescues as well, and seems to be pretty knowledgeable. He’s quick to reply when I’ve had issues. I haven’t talked to him about this, because I feel that whatever this is, it happened under my care and there isn’t much he can do to help.
> 
> My enclosure setup is a raised garden bed with a shower curtain draped over, to give a greenhouse effect. It has worked ok, but I feel that maybe the area is too big to keep humidity up, or maybe I need a humidifier with a stronger flow. I am currently using a decorative on with a hose attached that enters through a small hole in the plastic. The topsoil I have does not contain perlite, but it is rather smelly when it is used alone
> 
> ...


Soil is made form composted yard waste. Could be oleander and azaleas. Could be grass clippings sprayed with all sorts of toxic yard chemicals. I'd get rid of the soil ASAP. It should never be used under a tortoise.

Out in the yard, he should be in an enclosure and every plant in the enclosure should be ID'd and confirmed safe. I don'y know about straggler daisy.

No need for hay for a baby. When the time for hay comes, use orchard grass hay or Bermuda. Don't use Timothy. Too stemmy.

The belly button thing tells me the breeder did not start the baby correctly. Certainly not as bad as someone with rabbit pellets outside all day with no soaks, but still not ideal. Read this thread for more info on this: https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/sudan-sulcatas-this-never-gets-old.184832/

I've never used the tent style enclosures, so I can't comment on those. Seems to me like it wouldn't hold in heat as well as a closed chamber, but I think they work well enough for some people from what I've read here on TFO. Better than an open top, but not ideal in my opinion. If you are needed to use a humidifier, that tells me that something is not right. In a closed chamber no humidifier is needed, and I don't like the idea of a tortoise breathing in water vapor. Water vapor is a whole different thing than humidity.

So we have some possibilities here, but I'm not seeing any obvious cause of your problem. I'd bump temps up 5-10 degrees, get rid of the soil, get rid of the humidifier, close up the tent some more to hold in humidity, and invest in a large closed chamber.

Outside time for an hour or two a day in a safe enclosure is fine. Soak on the way back in.


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## Tom (Sep 29, 2020)

andrea0226 said:


> Question: Can I put him in a small box with a CHE and no UVB, on paper towels, for the day? So I can get his enclosure cleaned out...


Outdoor enclosure would be better. Watch temps, make sure theres lots of shade, and do a long soak on the way back in. Keep soak water warm for the entire duration of the soak.


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## andrea0226 (Sep 29, 2020)

Tom said:


> Outdoor enclosure would be better. Watch temps, make sure theres lots of shade, and do a long soak on the way back in. Keep soak water warm for the entire duration of the soak.



Ok, how long should I leave him out though? I’ll put some screen over the box. And can I just put down some paper towels as substrate? I also have sphagnum moss. Should I add some?


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## Tom (Sep 29, 2020)

andrea0226 said:


> Ok, how long should I leave him out though? I’ll put some screen over the box. And can I just put down some paper towels as substrate? I also have sphagnum moss. Should I add some?


No paper towels. They will eat it.

No screen, it will hold in too much heat. Use hardware cloth or welded wire if you need a cover.

Instead of a box, why not make a large 4x8' enclosure with cinderblocks or 2x12, or something similar. Or use a large kiddie pool from Walmart.

No moss. They will eat the long fibered stuff, and the dirt type stuff will rot their plastron.

You can use the ground outside. Or a section of the lawn as long as its not treated with chemicals. Or orchid bark.

I don't like to leave babies out for very long a couple hours is plenty. Stretch it to 3 or 4 hours as a one time thing if you are re-doing the enclosure.


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## andrea0226 (Sep 29, 2020)

Tom said:


> No paper towels. They will eat it.
> 
> No screen, it will hold in too much heat. Use hardware cloth or welded wire if you need a cover.
> 
> ...



Ok, I plan to work on something like that to have permanently. I’m just trying to keep him alive at the moment.

I’m seeing what I have on hand. Can I use a box with dirt as substrate and maybe a wire oven rack for protection?

I’m also afraid to leave him on the ground in the state that he’s in, because of ants. He’s very lethargic.

Now, as far as his indoor enclosure, I don’t have any other substrate on hand at the moment. What is your advice for temporary substrate until I can get the right stuff? I will probably be moving him into a plastic tote/bin.


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## Tom (Sep 29, 2020)

andrea0226 said:


> Ok, I plan to work on something like that to have permanently. I’m just trying to keep him alive at the moment.
> 
> I’m seeing what I have on hand. Can I use a box with dirt as substrate and maybe a wire oven rack for protection?
> 
> ...


Box with dirt and oven rack should work in the short term.

For substrate you should be able to find orchid bark at any pet store, or cypress mulch at any hardware or gardening center.


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## KarenSoCal (Sep 29, 2020)

Tom said:


> If the breeder soaked daily and used damp substrate, I don't suspect a case of breeder failure syndrome here.
> 
> This leads to more questions:
> What media did the breeder incubate on?
> ...



I think he may have soaked, but did not wet down substrate that I could see.

He didn't say media for incubation.
He did not use a breeder box. The day after hatching he used soil and cypress mulch, and put them outside. He brings them inside depending on temps. He mentions humidity frequently, and does soak, but puts no water dish in with hatchlings because they "get dirty". Yolk sacs were still in place, or scar was still open. He is in Miami, FL.

No perlite...he mentions it is toxic. His name is Anthony Menendez, and started his rescue/breeding in 2018. He just incorporated this July as a LLC.


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## andrea0226 (Sep 29, 2020)

KarenSoCal said:


> I think he may have soaked, but did not wet down substrate that I could see.
> 
> He didn't say media for incubation.
> He did not use a breeder box. The day after hatching he used soil and cypress mulch, and put them outside. He brings them inside depending on temps. He mentions humidity frequently, and does soak, but puts no water dish in with hatchlings because they "get dirty". Yolk sacs were still in place, or scar was still open. He is in Miami, FL.
> ...




I was connected (via a tortoise group) to someone who has knowledge in nursing sick babies back to health. She recommended food soaks all day, if possible. She said the same thing, that this baby probably arrived dehydrated and is just now showing symptoms.

So, I will be doing 1-2 hour soaks with 1-2 hours in between. All I have is spring mix and mazuri right now. I’ll be getting all kinds of lettuce tomorrow to make more of a smoothie consistency.

I’ve also prepared a shoe box with hay so that he can stay in, to reduce stress, while I attempt to nurse him back to health.

Thankfully I’m at home because of the covid stuff, so I can give him the attention he deserves. And he’s looking better already!!

I will keep y’all updated. Thanks!!


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## Mrs.Jennifer (Sep 29, 2020)

Best of luck! So glad you can be present!


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## KarenSoCal (Sep 29, 2020)

I'd be careful with the hay. Hay molds very quickly if it gets wet. Mold is the last thing your baby needs to be exposed to.

I'm so glad to hear he's perking up a bit.

I've never heard of doing food soaks, but it sounds reasonable. I'm looking forward to seeing how they go for you.


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## andrea0226 (Sep 30, 2020)

Swelling has gone down. He’s still fighting. Food soaks definitely seem to be working. Here’s a before and after of his throat swelling. Just staying positive and constantly telling him how strong he his. Hope he pulls through this!! ??


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## Mrs.Jennifer (Sep 30, 2020)

That seems like progress! I’m so sorry if I missed it in this thread, but does your baby have a name?


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## andrea0226 (Sep 30, 2020)

Mrs.Jennifer said:


> That seems like progress! I’m so sorry if I missed it in this thread, but does your baby have a name?




He’s been in and out of soaks all day. They really seem to be helping. Noooo, not yet. He definitely needs one though.


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## andrea0226 (Sep 30, 2020)

Toddrickfl1 said:


> This might be the same yellow spots were seeing.
> View attachment 307561
> @Pastel Tortie @mastershake



That was just bits of carrot from a food soak..


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## Mrs.Jennifer (Sep 30, 2020)

Well, in the interim, “Baby Sulcata“ is in my prayers


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## tortlvr (Oct 1, 2020)

andrea0226 said:


> Thank you for the quick reply!! My temps were higher but the people on the Facebook group told me to lower them. Should humidity be 80 at night as well??
> 
> I got him from a breeder in Florida, Shadow’s Reptiles.
> 
> ...


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## KarenSoCal (Oct 1, 2020)

Andrea, how is he doing? Is he keeping his eyes open? Eating anything?

And how are you doing?
You both are in my prayers! ? ?


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## andrea0226 (Oct 2, 2020)

KarenSoCal said:


> Andrea, how is he doing? Is he keeping his eyes open? Eating anything?
> 
> And how are you doing?
> You both are in my prayers! ? ?



Thank you for your prayers and for checking up!!  I’m ok, it just sucks to feel so helpless. He’s lost 5 grams. But he has been pooping and not eating. He’s hanging in there. Eyes were closed all day today so I upped the humidity. I’d been keeping it low since he’s soaking all day. I actually have a question. I always read that the humidity shouldn’t be higher than the temp. But is this just for lower temps? For instance, if the temp is in the 80’s, can the humidity be in the 90’s? Also, how do you feel about critical care and force feeding? I ordered some but not sure if I should attempt it. I just feel so bad for him. But he is fighting.


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## shawnateerow (Oct 2, 2020)

My baby girl can't eat on her own. Try 1 of those plastic medicine droppers and put baby food with 1/3-1/4 warm water in it. Hold it up to him and put a little drop on his mouth and he may go for it. My girl loves it


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## andrea0226 (Oct 2, 2020)

shawnateerow said:


> My baby girl can't eat on her own. Try 1 of those plastic medicine droppers and put baby food with 1/3-1/4 warm water in it. Hold it up to him and put a little drop on his mouth and he may go for it. My girl loves it


 
Yes, that’s what I was thinking. Maybe not prying his mouth open, but just letting the food dribble down and hopefully into his mouth..? I might try that tomorrow. Thanks!! She’s so cute!!


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## KarenSoCal (Oct 2, 2020)

andrea0226 said:


> Thank you for your prayers and for checking up!! ❤ I’m ok, it just sucks to feel so helpless. He’s lost 5 grams. But he has been pooping and not eating. He’s hanging in there. Eyes were closed all day today so I upped the humidity. I’d been keeping it low since he’s soaking all day. I actually have a question. I always read that the humidity shouldn’t be higher than the temp. But is this just for lower temps? For instance, if the temp is in the 80’s, can the humidity be in the 90’s? Also, how do you feel about critical care and force feeding? I ordered some but not sure if I should attempt it. I just feel so bad for him. But he is fighting.



I've never heard that the humidity shouldn't be higher than the temp. Humidity is relative to the temp. Warm air is able to hold more water than cool air. I don't see what that "rule" means.

In my enclosure, Sulafat's hide inside is at 84°F. The humidity inside the hide stays at 85-90%. Maybe whoever says that means to reinforce that a humid place needs to be kept warm for a tortoise. Cold + damp = RI. But to me that "rule" makes no sense at all.

As for force feeding...I would NEVER try it. It's way too easy to cause the tort to aspirate some food or liquid. Then it will likely develop aspiration pneumonia. If forced feeding is necessary, a vet should put a feeding tube into the tort's neck, and feeding should be done through it. If the tortoise will eat from a needleless syringe, that's OK.


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## andrea0226 (Oct 2, 2020)

Y


KarenSoCal said:


> I've never heard that the humidity shouldn't be higher than the temp. Humidity is relative to the temp. Warm air is able to hold more water than cool air. I don't see what that "rule" means.
> 
> In my enclosure, Sulafat's hide inside is at 84°F. The humidity inside the hide stays at 85-90%. Maybe whoever says that means to reinforce that a humid place needs to be kept warm for a tortoise. Cold + damp = RI. But to me that "rule" makes no sense at all.
> 
> As for force feeding...I would NEVER try it. It's way too easy to cause the tort to aspirate some food or liquid. Then it will likely develop aspiration pneumonia. If forced feeding is necessary, a vet should put a feeding tube into the tort's neck, and feeding should be done through it. If the tortoise will eat from a needleless syringe, that's OK.



Yes, that’s what I was referring to. Cold and damp and respiratory infections. That’s what I was afraid of, him choking on the liquid if I tried force feeding. But I’m gonna try the syringe thing tomorrow. I’ll see if he comes around.


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## shawnateerow (Oct 2, 2020)

andrea0226 said:


> Yes, that’s what I was thinking. Maybe not prying his mouth open, but just letting the food dribble down and hopefully into his mouth..? I might try that tomorrow. Thanks!! She’s so cute!!



Let me know how it goes! ??


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## Chefdenoel10 (Oct 2, 2020)

shawnateerow said:


> My baby girl can't eat on her own. Try 1 of those plastic medicine droppers and put baby food with 1/3-1/4 warm water in it. Hold it up to him and put a little drop on his mouth and he may go for it. My girl loves it



how is your doing today by the way?
I am still worried and praying for though both!!! ????????


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## shawnateerow (Oct 2, 2020)

Chefdenoel10 said:


> how is your doing today by the way?
> I am still worried and praying for though both!!! ????????



Making it..she seems to have slowed down a bit the last 2 days but I managed to find another vet and I have an appointment tmw morning. Im trying to get some antibiotic injections and some antibiotic powder for soaks. Hopefully this vet will be more knowledgeable than the other one??? thank you for keeping us in your prayers❤


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## shawnateerow (Oct 2, 2020)

andrea0226 said:


> Y
> 
> 
> Yes, that’s what I was referring to. Cold and damp and respiratory infections. That’s what I was afraid of, him choking on the liquid if I tried force feeding. But I’m gonna try the syringe thing tomorrow. I’ll see if he comes around.



Mixing a little hot water in the baby food should bring it close to room temp for him. Put a little speck on his mouth then wait a bit with the vial still in front of him. He should hopefully open up, and squirt in a little at a time each time he opens up, giving him a chance to swallow in between.. I get the small Gerber jars. My girl loves the ones with spinach and/or peas that has apple or pear in it also. The little bit of sweet entices them. Good luck!!


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## andrea0226 (Oct 2, 2020)

shawnateerow said:


> Mixing a little hot water in the baby food should bring it close to room temp for him. Put a little speck on his mouth then wait a bit with the vial still in front of him. He should hopefully open up, and squirt in a little at a time each time he opens up, giving him a chance to swallow in between.. I get the small Gerber jars. My girl loves the ones with spinach and/or peas that has apple or pear in it also. The little bit of sweet entices them. Good luck!!



Thank you!! I hope she pulls through. They sure are little fighters!! But it sucks to feel so helpless? The lady that’s been guiding me through this said sometimes they get worse before they get better, so hang in there!!


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## Chefdenoel10 (Oct 2, 2020)

shawnateerow said:


> Making it..she seems to have slowed down a bit the last 2 days but I managed to find another vet and I have an appointment tmw morning. Im trying to get some antibiotic injections and some antibiotic powder for soaks. Hopefully this vet will be more knowledgeable than the other one??? thank you for keeping us in your prayers❤



Ok... keep me posted. I wish you luck and let’s both of us keep good vibes.
I am sending you both all my good vibes and positive attitude.
Tell her from me she has to knock it off. 
she just has to make it.!!
We will not accept ANYTHING else.!
So she should keep giving her will to live and get into her soaks and keep eating her foods. 
maybe tell her if she gets better we will have lots and lots of treats for her AND TOYS!! ?
Whatever works!


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## Boyu (Oct 12, 2020)

i dont reccomend hay bc my tortoise got hay stuck on hes eye


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## Melissacoop (Oct 12, 2020)

If the humidity is higher than the temp you will get a respiratory infection. The heat should be higher than 80 for a sick baby. @Tom can confirm this.


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## Tom (Oct 12, 2020)

Melissacoop said:


> If the humidity is higher than the temp you will get a respiratory infection. The heat should be higher than 80 for a sick baby. @Tom can confirm this.


Not accurate. Temp should be 80 degrees F or higher. Humidity should be 80% or higher. Its fine if the temp at night drops to 80F and the humidity rises to 99%. Its not a problem for humidity to be higher or lower than the temp, but both should be over 80. It could be a problem if the temp dropped to 68F and the humidity was high for a tropical species.

Higher temps of 85+ 24/7 are helpful for babies fighting sickness.


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## Melissacoop (Oct 12, 2020)

Got it!


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