# A controversial constipation remedy



## Armadilloguy (Dec 1, 2021)

Alright, everyone. Long-time listener, first-time caller.

I "discovered" a potentially controversial yet very effective remedy for constipation in tortoises.

Before I explain, I want to clarify that I did quite a bit of research over the years before performing this, and concluded that, in my opinion, wasn't abusive despite what some big-time reptile enthusiasts may be led to believe.

I also want to clarify that since I definitely take my tortoise's health very seriously, I performed this with patient and attentive care. She was in my hands the whole time and was prepared to stop immediately if something looked wrong.

Many (if not all) tortoise owners have experienced a flip-over, whether it be a few minutes after it occured or when they arrive home from work, and unless the tortoise is very heavy or got cooked by its heatlamp, the tortoise is fine after getting righted or righting itself, if not a bit dazed and back to normal after a nap.

I have caught my tortoise on her back after trying to climb in her enclosure multiple times (this enclosure was promptly mad flip-proof, so don't worry) and each time was minutes after the flip occured, which is when I either righted her helped her right herself to get her used to helping herself if I'm ever gone. Despite this, the first result on google says that ANY period of time a tortoise spends on its back can prove fatal, due to its internal organs putting pressure on its lungs. This confused me, because if this were the case, my tortoise would've died a long time ago. This contradiction (like the many other annoying contradictions in reptile care) frustrated me, so I researched the specifics.

I learned from compiling information I gained from various sources (articles, YouTubers, reptile experts etc) that it's not necessarily that black and white. Small tortoises, such as mine, have lighter organs and far less mass being pressed against the lungs, and as such take hours upon hours to even make an impact on breathing, and would usually die from their heat source overheating them in their vulnurable belly-up position before they suffocate. Large tortoises, on the other hand, wouldn't do so well, as their heft is enough to crush their lungs, so I want to clarify that if I had a sulcata, the following procedure would definitely be abuse.

Before I make my final admission, there's a big detail that needs to be addressed: tortoises void their bowels when they are on their backs. 

Have you guessed it yet? 

My tortoise hadn't pooped for a week (light eating but no other symptoms), I got worried, and after many warm baths with no result, the lightbulb went on. I picked her up, cupped her shell-down in my hands and watched. I watched attentively for about 60 seconds for signs of breathing problems (with an intent to right her if I saw them, which I didnt) and as expected, the week old blockage was released.

I put her back on her feet and she's happy as a clam, even more peppy than before.

A single minute of discomfort resulted in a remedy for an actual health issue (which I will prevent with the proper dietary additive in the future, I'm considering pumpkin)

So, what do you think? Am I an abuser? Or did I do what was necessary? Was a minute on her back more stressful than a trip to the vet plus commute? Does that level of discomfort equate to inexcusable suffering?

(Note: Im not suggesting this as a mainstream remedy for anybody)


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## Noelluene (Dec 1, 2021)

Empirical data is good and all but would you mind explaining the underlying mechanism of this type of treatment?


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## Yvonne G (Dec 1, 2021)

I've had tortoises for over fifty years and in that time I have found many tortoises on their back. Some of them had been that way so long that there was a circle scraped in the dirt around them as they tried to right themselves. Most of them had pooped all over the place as they struggled. The light bulb never went off over my head. 

Do tortoises like being on their back? no, but in this case I think the benefit outweighs the discomfort. But I would hesitate to start advising this as a way to relieve constipation. I can see it not working out so well if the keeper was not as attentive as you were.


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## Armadilloguy (Dec 1, 2021)

Yvonne G said:


> I've had tortoises for over fifty years and in that time I have found many tortoises on their back. Some of them had been that way so long that there was a circle scraped in the dirt around them as they tried to right themselves. Most of them had pooped all over the place as they struggled. The light bulb never went off over my head.
> 
> Do tortoises like being on their back? no, but in this case I think the benefit outweighs the discomfort. But I would hesitate to start advising this as a way to relieve constipation. I can see it not working out so well if the keeper was not as attentive as you were.


I agree. My title was misleading in that I'm not actually advising this to anyone. I can definitely see people using successes like this one as an excuse for neglective animal care. I kinda created this post to hear thoughts on it, especially since prior to doing my little "stunt", research yielded nothing in regards to curing constipation via up-ending.


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## Armadilloguy (Dec 1, 2021)

Sitona said:


> Empirical data is good and all but would you mind explaining the underlying mechanism of this type of treatment?


I believe the voidance of bowels evolved for the purpose of lowering the weight pressed against the lungs, which can be incredibly beneficial to large individuals with both heavy organs and heavy bowel contents.


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## Tom (Dec 1, 2021)

There are other ways that I would prefer to flipping them on their back.

Car rides, long warm soaks in a bath tub, and feeding the correct foods will also help avoid the problem in the first place.


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## wellington (Dec 2, 2021)

I agree with Tom that the other ways should be tried first. The long soaks, which most don't do long enough and in a big container, most don't do, so lots of moving can happen and car rides are almost sure shooters.
Also, that the source of the constipation needs to be fixed.
I don't think what you did is abuse, just more a last resort.
On another note, tort owners should fix the flipping problems once a tort has flipped itself


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## mark1 (Dec 2, 2021)

is being flipped over a suspected cause of bowel torsions ?


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## Maggie3fan (Dec 2, 2021)

mark1 said:


> is being flipped over a suspected cause of bowel torsions ?


I was taught a buncha years ago to turn a flipped chelonia back over carefully and slowly to avoid torsion


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## Maro2Bear (Dec 2, 2021)

Greetings.

Soooo, how does anyone know for certain their tort is constipated & needs to go? The OP‘s tort might have easily defecated the next day (or so) perfectly fine on its own. No intervention, no stress. Does everyone observe every bowel movement, urination or urate deposit? I don’t think so. I would be in @wellington & @Tom ’s camp on this in that proper hydration, good proper hydrating fibrous nutritional foods, coupled with long, warm, soaks that make torts paddle a bit is where we should be at. Until our Sully got way too heavy to lift, she got a proper soaking in containers that were oversized & water deep to encourage paddling. 

Proper food, proper hydration, proper room to roam (exercise) & regular soaking goes a long way to ensure “normal” bowel movements.

Good luck & Happy Torting


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## Armadilloguy (Dec 2, 2021)

From reading your great responses (thanks by the way) I think my problem was the regular soaking. For the years I've had her, I'd assumed the purpose of a warm bath was solely hydration, which I accomplished with a humidifier and regular spraybottling so I rarely ran baths. Will do from now on.

On another note, I believe part of the cause of her uncharacteristic constipation was the stress of travel. I have an ideal setup for her at the place I'm staying, so don't worry about that, but it's a place she's unfamiliar with and it's after a 4-day car ride. Ill take up the car ride recommendation in the future for the purpose of getting her used to it.

Everyday we learn new things, and you guys help! Speedy's gonna be stoked 

Thanks all

Oh and a final question: I've been treating her with an occasional bit of apple more than usual lately. Could that have been a contributor to the blockage? (Shes a red-foot)


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## ZEROPILOT (Dec 2, 2021)

My mind goes to the cause of the constipation.
If it is due to an illness and not just your run of the mill kind. the stress of flipping that animal on it's back might be too stressful.
I've never had an issue with my torts that cucumber or an extended soak didn't cure.
If I remember correctly, I think that every tortoise I ever had that had flipped over DID poop all over itself. Maybe 25 times.
And there was just one fatality.


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## Lyn W (Dec 2, 2021)

Wouldn't most kinds of stressful situations for torts trigger pooping?
I've made my tort poop by just gently vibrating his soaking tray enough to concern him while he was in it, and hey presto ?!
I think I've read that that's the reasoning behind car rides too.


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## ZEROPILOT (Dec 2, 2021)

Lyn W said:


> Wouldn't most kinds of stressful situations for torts trigger pooping?
> I've made my tort poop by just gently vibrating his soaking tray enough to concern him while he was in it, and hey presto ?!
> I think I've read that that's the reasoning behind car rides too.


They poop just going into a cardboard box WAY before the box ever gets to my car


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## wellington (Dec 2, 2021)

I don't have RF but do know they can eat fruit. I do know though do not feed the seeds. They are poisonous.


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## Armadilloguy (Dec 2, 2021)

ZEROPILOT said:


> They poop just going into a cardboard box WAY before the box ever gets to my car


Wish I could relate. Mine has never once pooped outside her comfort zone


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## Armadilloguy (Dec 2, 2021)

wellington said:


> I don't have RF but do know they can eat fruit. I do know though do not feed the seeds. They are poisonous.


Dont worry, she gets bored of apple before she gets to the core. Never once have I seen her bite into an apple core, shes picky.


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## MenagerieGrl (Dec 3, 2021)

Additionally,If the hypothesis was certain, then it would stand to reason, everytime the tort was flipped on it's back, it woud Poop ?. . then . .


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## wellington (Dec 3, 2021)

MenagerieGrl said:


> Additionally,If the hypothesis was certain, then it would stand to reason, everytime the tort was flipped on it's back, it woud Poop ?. . then . .


Mine never pooped but did pee. That's why they should be soaked after they have flipped. They usually empty their bladders and need some hydration.


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## MaNaAk (Dec 3, 2021)

wellington said:


> Mine never pooped but did pee. That's why they should be soaked after they have flipped. They usually empty their bladders and need some hydration.


I put a tray with some warm water and lettuce in it for Daisy's breakfast and she stepped in to have breakfast and pooped on her way out. I was very pleased as I was getting concerned. Otherwise she pooped on the way to the vets some weeks ago.

MaNaAk


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## Maggie3fan (Dec 3, 2021)

One time when Bob was alive and close to or over 90 lbs or so... he tried to climb the 3 high cinder block wall and flipped. I was not home and when I found him he had tried so hard to right himself he'd made a track in a circle around himself thru the grass and into mud, he'd pooped and peed horrible and he was not struggling at all. His eyes were half slits...I righted him as carefully as I could but he still went THUD as he then fell over.... his eyes looked better, but he was strange for about a half an hour...


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## wellington (Dec 3, 2021)

maggie3fan said:


> One time when Bob was alive and close to or over 90 lbs or so... he tried to climb the 3 high cinder block wall and flipped. I was not home and when I found him he had tried so hard to right himself he'd made a track in a circle around himself thru the grass and into mud, he'd pooped and peed horrible and he was not struggling at all. His eyes were half slits...I righted him as carefully as I could but he still went THUD as he then fell over.... his eyes looked better, but he was strange for about a half an hour...


Im sure when flipped for a long time it is not only deadly for the big guys specially but very hard on their entire system. You could tell by the circle he dug how hard he tried to save his life. They probably give up realizing this is the end or they are just out of steam. 
Mine have never been flipped for a long time. Probably why they never pooped.


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## MenagerieGrl (Dec 3, 2021)

wellington said:


> Im sure when flipped for a long time it is not only deadly for the big guys specially but very hard on their entire system. You could tell by the circle he dug how hard he tried to save his life. They probably give up realizing this is the end or they are just out of steam.
> Mine have never been flipped for a long time. Probably why they never pooped.


Wow. . . I can only imagine what they are thingking after attemptng to "right" them selves after an extended period of time...
This thread has given me a whole NEW perspective of the potential severity of the situ.
Thank you @Armadilloguy for bringing this subject up, it has been a conversation I have learned from.


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## Toombsk16 (Dec 3, 2021)

Armadilloguy said:


> Alright, everyone. Long-time listener, first-time caller.
> 
> I "discovered" a potentially controversial yet very effective remedy for constipation in tortoises.
> 
> ...


Hello, my family and I are proud to have a new baby Sulcata (Obi’) as part of our family. We did a lot of research before taking on a lifelong commitment. 

I think you did your due diligence and I’m so glad you had such a positive result. I find it so unfortunate that the internet is littered with so much misinformation that it’s hard to know what to believe. It’s kind of like researching human health conditions. Results go from one end of the spectrum to the other.

How you went above and beyond to explain your cautiousness tells me you really care and want the best for your Tortoise.

I don’t think you did anything cruel, wrong or careless.
I’m coming to the conclusion with ours that in the big picture, Tortoises are relatively new to the pet community and there isn’t decades or centuries of knowledge with animals like dogs who are completely domesticated.

Tortoises especially over turtles (in my opinion) really do make wonderful pets. They are engaging, friendly & fairly easy to care for. (As long as their few very important needs are met) We are very happy and honestly excited that we have our Tortoise which we will be able to pass along to one of our young, but grown children. I find something very special about that as well as the peace of knowing he will be properly cared for & stay in our family for his entire life.

Thank you for the time you took to explain this treatment! Tortoise ??


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