# Minimum size for sexing?



## J.T. (Jun 26, 2015)

Hi, I'd like to know how big a Hermann's tortoise needs to be before you can deteremine it's sex. I have an 11 month old and my vet said that it's tail is too long for it to be a girl. I was under the impression that you can't tell at this stage. It also has an extra scute and I read somewhere that that's a clear indicator of a female tortoise. Your thoughts?


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## JoesMum (Jun 26, 2015)

You go by size not age, but at 11 months it is far too young. At around 5 inches we may be able to tell... but you may get incontrovertible evidence displayed before that. 

Once seen, never forgotten if you have a male


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## Tom (Jun 26, 2015)

I find this to be very variable. I don't have any experience sexing hermanni but with all the other species that I've worked with more extensively, sulcatas, russians, leopards, DTs, and just recently Burmese stars, there is no set size or age when you can tell. There have been sulcatas where I was able to correctly assess the sexes as hatchlings, but most of the time I can't. I had one sulcata that I was sure was a female based on morphology and behavior for almost 9 years. I was wrong. Living in the presence of a more dominant male will sometimes cause tortoises to repress their secondary sexual characteristics for a while. Some sulcatas I can tell at a year and a half and others are 4 years old and 20+ pounds before I am sure. I knew all of my South African leopards at around 1.5 to 2 years old.

In short, it varies. You will know when you know.


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## J.T. (Jun 26, 2015)

That's what I thought... Thanks for your input. Does anyone know whether extra or split scutes are common among "boy-torts" as well? And would you guys mind taking a look just to be sure?


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## Tom (Jun 26, 2015)

Split scutes are most commonly caused by higher incubation temps. Higher incubation temps usually result in more females.

Your tortoise is being housed too dry. This may help:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/sticky-hermanns-tortoise-care-sheet-updated.101410/


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## J.T. (Jun 26, 2015)

Too dry? What makes you say that? I went through the care sheet several times.


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## Tidgy's Dad (Aug 8, 2015)

Lovely tortoise.
I think the too dry remark may refer to the new growth regions between the scutes which look deep and may indicate the onset of pyramiding.
You should check your humidity.
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/the-end-of-pyramiding.15137/
explains more.


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## J.T. (Aug 9, 2015)

She's always had those ridges in between the scutes if that's what you mean. But they havn't gotten any deeper since I got her so I just figured that that's just the way her shell is. It is a little uneven and crooked anyway... some scutes are larger than others or seem kind of odly shaped. I have a feeling the breeder wanted to make sure they all hatched as females and bred them in way too high temperatures.
As far as the humidity goes... it's very rarely under 70% and I soak and spray her on a dayly basis. Tom just said that she's being kept too dry when I give my very best to make sure that's not the case. I just wanted to know what makes him think she's beeing housed too dry when he knows nothing about the way she is being kept.


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## Tom (Aug 9, 2015)

J.T. said:


> I just wanted to know what makes him think she's being housed too dry when he knows nothing about the way she is being kept.



She is beginning to pyramid. Pyramiding is caused by growth in conditions that are too dry.

Do you have an open topped enclosure?
What is your basking temp?
How are you measuring 70% humidity? Is it a stick on dial type hygrometer?

I have a male SA leopard with a similar split scute pattern. Split scutes are not always an indicator of female, but they often are.

The pyramiding that I'm seeing in your picture could have been started before you got this tortoise, but at some point this tortoise was growing in conditions that were too dry.


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## Tidgy's Dad (Aug 10, 2015)

So the damage was done before you got her and from what you're saying it's not going to get any worse and she should have lovely smooth growth from now on.
Really is a beautiful baby, top notch.


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