# breeding and what incubator to use?



## Thomas tortoise (Feb 18, 2022)

I am interested in breeding sulcata tortoises in the future and I want to learn everything to breeding, incubating, when to dig the eggs up, when to put them in the incubator, and what incubator to use. ect. I have heard you should not keep one male with one female so I will have two females and one male. so any help will be appreciated! @Tom I know you breed tortoise so maybe you would have some advise for me.


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## Tom (Feb 18, 2022)

Thomas tortoise said:


> I am interested in breeding sulcata tortoises in the future and I want to learn everything to breeding, incubating, when to dig the eggs up, when to put them in the incubator, and what incubator to use. ect. I have heard you should not keep one male with one female so I will have two females and one male. so any help will be appreciated! @Tom I know you breed tortoise so maybe you would have some advise for me.


Breed a different species is my advice. We don't need more sulcatas.


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## Thomas tortoise (Feb 19, 2022)

Tom said:


> Breed a different species is my advice. We don't need more sulcatas.


What species would you recommend?


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## Tom (Feb 19, 2022)

Thomas tortoise said:


> What species would you recommend?


Russians could really use a helping hand. We are still collecting a good amount of them from the wild and importing them. CB babies would be MUCH better for everyone involved. 

Hermanni are great tortoises, and few people are breeding them. They only lay a few eggs a year, so it would be great to have more.

Pancakes, any of the greeks, SA leopards, Manouria (which would be great in your climate most of the time), any of the Indotestudo, any of the kinixsys,... Really anything would be better than breeding sulcatas.


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## Thomas tortoise (Feb 20, 2022)

Tom said:


> Russians could really use a helping hand. We are still collecting a good amount of them from the wild and importing them. CB babies would be MUCH better for everyone involved.
> 
> Hermanni are great tortoises, and few people are breeding them. They only lay a few eggs a year, so it would be great to have more.
> 
> Pancakes, any of the greeks, SA leopards, Manouria (which would be great in your climate most of the time), any of the Indotestudo, any of the kinixsys,... Really anything would be better than breeding sulcatas.


I would like to breed elongated tortoises. Can you give me any advise? Like what incubator to use and when to dig the eggs up? I am completely new to breeding and would like to learn a lot on this forum because as many people know Google and YouTube don't give quite the best information.


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## Thomas tortoise (Feb 20, 2022)

Oh! And where would I get nice healthy elongated tortoises? I'll raise them from babies so what age do I breed them? And I would like some around 175$ - 0$ if possible. But I am willing to pay more for healthy ones!


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## Tom (Feb 20, 2022)

Thomas tortoise said:


> I would like to breed elongated tortoises. Can you give me any advise? Like what incubator to use and when to dig the eggs up? I am completely new to breeding and would like to learn a lot on this forum because as many people know Google and YouTube don't give quite the best information.


I've never bred them, or even keep them, so I'm not a good source of info on them. We used to have some people on the forum talking about them and breeding them, so a search might yield some names for you to reach out to for info. They don't do well in my climate here, so I don't even know of anyone keeping them here. I do like them and have read a fair amount about them, but I choose species to work with that will do well in my climate living outdoors as adults. If I ever live in the humid south eastern US, I will get some Indotestudo and start working with them. Both forstens and elongata.

Just some general advice: Breeders know the market value of their animals and charge accordingly. The initial purchase price of the animal is a pittance compared to what you will spend on housing, food, heat, etc... Worry about the health of the new baby and how well the baby was started, not the price. If you want people to delete your emails and not answer you, then telling them what price you want to pay is a good strategy. When I contact a breeder, price is the last thing I ask about. I want to learn about the species they breed, and what steps they take to make sure the animal is healthy and started optimally, and how I should set them up optimally when they arrive. I want to buy the healthiest animal I can get. I don't care about the price, as long as it is not something ridiculous for no good reason.


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## Thomas tortoise (Feb 20, 2022)

Thank you @Tom this was really helpful!


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## biochemnerd808 (Mar 21, 2022)

If you are wanting to breed tortoises, I suggest you first immerse yourself in researching species of tortoises, and really delving into how best to keep them. Your focus shouldn't initially be 'I want to breed' - it should be a passion about raising that specific species, and doing the best you possibly can. You will need space, a fabulous outdoor habitat. You will need a closed chamber set up to raise your babies up to big enough to be outside, and then for several years until breeding size. Depending on the species you choose.... This can take 5-15 years before they are ready to breed.

What is your motivation to breed? Do you want to experience the baby phase? Do you want to help conserve a species? Do you want to create your own tortoise army? Do you want to earn millions of dollars selling them? If the last one is the goal, sorry, not gonna happen... By the time you have built enclosures and bought lighting and supplies and bought or built an incubator, and invested hundreds or thousands of hours, the 'per hr' wages are ridiculously low. You might break even.
Breeding is fun and very rewarding (not monetarily), but it's also not for the faint hearted. Sometimes babies die. It's a lot of work to raise babies for a few months before selling them (this is the way I believe it should be done). Sometimes the female gets injured durig mating. Dealing with buyers is a lot of work and sometimes stressful (but also really fun and rewarding).

I have to admin I cringe a little when someone says 'I want tortoises so I can breed' - in my opinion it's best to want tortoises so you can provide them with the best possible life, and if that goes well, they might gift you with babies some day.


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## Thomas tortoise (Mar 21, 2022)

biochemnerd808 said:


> If you are wanting to breed tortoises, I suggest you first immerse yourself in researching species of tortoises, and really delving into how best to keep them. Your focus shouldn't initially be 'I want to breed' - it should be a passion about raising that specific species, and doing the best you possibly can. You will need space, a fabulous outdoor habitat. You will need a closed chamber set up to raise your babies up to big enough to be outside, and then for several years until breeding size. Depending on the species you choose.... This can take 5-15 years before they are ready to breed.
> 
> What is your motivation to breed? Do you want to experience the baby phase? Do you want to help conserve a species? Do you want to create your own tortoise army? Do you want to earn millions of dollars selling them? If the last one is the goal, sorry, not gonna happen... By the time you have built enclosures and bought lighting and supplies and bought or built an incubator, and invested hundreds or thousands of hours, the 'per hr' wages are ridiculously low. You might break even.
> Breeding is fun and very rewarding (not monetarily), but it's also not for the faint hearted. Sometimes babies die. It's a lot of work to raise babies for a few months before selling them (this is the way I believe it should be done). Sometimes the female gets injured durig mating. Dealing with buyers is a lot of work and sometimes stressful (but also really fun and rewarding).
> ...


The reason I want to so badly is cause I wanna experience the baby phase and conserve species. not really for money. I just love baby tortoises and having the thrill of watching them hatch!


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## Maggie3fan (Mar 21, 2022)

Thomas tortoise said:


> The reason I want to so badly is cause I wanna experience the baby phase and conserve species. not really for money. I just love baby tortoises and having the thrill of watching them hatch!


That's the dumbest reason I have ever heard. And you have no business keeping tortoises let alone breeding them.
Learn about your subject. Research...this is a living being you are talking about wanting. You'd better know how to keep one or it will die


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## Thomas tortoise (Mar 21, 2022)

I know how to keep tortoises. What reason would you breed them for? Or keep them for? 


maggie3fan said:


> That's the dumbest reason I have ever heard. And you have no business keeping tortoises let alone breeding them.
> Learn about your subject. Research...this is a living being you are talking about wanting. You'd better know how to keep one or it will die


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## Tom (Mar 21, 2022)

maggie3fan said:


> That's the dumbest reason I have ever heard. And you have no business keeping tortoises let alone breeding them.
> Learn about your subject. Research...this is a living being you are talking about wanting. You'd better know how to keep one or it will die


What are you talking about? Why is wanting to see babies hatch and possibly contributing to species conservation dumb? Those are the primary reasons why I do it! 

You are talking to an enthusiastic teenager, who is learning about how all these things work. He's asking questions and learning from the answers. He's getting better every day. Help him. Don't try to slap him down. This kid will still be keeping tortoises when you and I are dead and gone. He'll be the one teaching new people how to do it. Let's teach him well, not call his reasoning dumb.


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## biochemnerd808 (Mar 21, 2022)

Thomas tortoise said:


> The reason I want to so badly is cause I wanna experience the baby phase and conserve species. not really for money. I just love baby tortoises and having the thrill of watching them hatch!


Experiencing the baby phase is pretty special. If you are willing to wait to produce your own babies, I definitely recommend you purchase captive bred babies of the species you want, raise them, and when they are big enough, you can look into breeding. Be careful where you purchase your tortoises, make sure they are started correctly with daily soaking, healthy varied diet, proper humidity. You may need to spend a little extra money to get healthy babies. Aim to by directly from the breeder rather than from a reseller. 

Research different species (their size, their origin and climate requirements - you mentioned elongated tortoises, which are a fabulous species. I know several people who have them, I don't personally know anyone who breeds them.

Depending on where you live, there may be some species you shouldn't go for. Also keep adult size in mind, as well as winter needs (do they need a constant 80°F ambient temp, or do they need to hibernate (brumate) at fridge temp for 3-4 months?


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## Thomas tortoise (Mar 22, 2022)

biochemnerd808 said:


> Experiencing the baby phase is pretty special. If you are willing to wait to produce your own babies, I definitely recommend you purchase captive bred babies of the species you want, raise them, and when they are big enough, you can look into breeding. Be careful where you purchase your tortoises, make sure they are started correctly with daily soaking, healthy varied diet, proper humidity. You may need to spend a little extra money to get healthy babies. Aim to by directly from the breeder rather than from a reseller.
> 
> Research different species (their size, their origin and climate requirements - you mentioned elongated tortoises, which are a fabulous species. I know several people who have them, I don't personally know anyone who breeds them.
> 
> Depending on where you live, there may be some species you shouldn't go for. Also keep adult size in mind, as well as winter needs (do they need a constant 80°F ambient temp, or do they need to hibernate (brumate) at fridge temp for 3-4 months?


How do I hibernate A tortoise? Do I just leave him outside in the winter and he will do it himself or....


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## biochemnerd808 (Mar 22, 2022)

It depends on the species of tortoise. Many are not hibernating (brumating) species! But Russian tortoises, Hermanni, Greek (but not all) hibernate, as do many American tortoises. 
No, you would never just leave them outside. Different species have different temperature requirements. I suggest you do a word search for brumation or hibernation and the species of tortoise you are wondering about here in the forum. This should give you the info you seek. 
I keep/breed/hibernate (brumate) my Russian tortoises in a designated fridge. But the methods/temps/humidity for this speces are different than for others. The info is available here in the TFO.


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## Thomas tortoise (Mar 22, 2022)

DO you have to Hibernate (brumate) tortoises that do hibernate?


biochemnerd808 said:


> It depends on the species of tortoise. Many are not hibernating (brumating) species! But Russian tortoises, Hermanni, Greek (but not all) hibernate, as do many American tortoises.
> No, you would never just leave them outside. Different species have different temperature requirements. I suggest you do a word search for brumation or hibernation and the species of tortoise you are wondering about here in the forum. This should give you the info you seek.
> I keep/breed/hibernate (brumate) my Russian tortoises in a designated fridge. But the methods/temps/humidity for this speces are different than for others. The info is available here in the TFO.


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## Tom (Mar 22, 2022)

Thomas tortoise said:


> DO you have to Hibernate (brumate) tortoises that do hibernate?


You don't "have" to brumate them, but in my opinion, you should. They will survive if you keep them up and active all winter. Usually they try to brumate anyway, but with some effort, you can usually stop it.

Leaving them outside to fend for themselves is often a death sentence.


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## Thomas tortoise (Mar 22, 2022)

Do I put them in the fridge if I hibernate them??? That sounds really morbid and scary. 


Tom said:


> You don't "have" to brumate them, but in my opinion, you should. They will survive if you keep them up and active all winter. Usually they try to brumate anyway, but with some effort, you can usually stop it.
> 
> Leaving them outside to fend for themselves is often a death sentence.


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## Tom (Mar 22, 2022)

Thomas tortoise said:


> Do I put them in the fridge if I hibernate them??? That sounds really morbid and scary.


Yes, but after a long lead in process. Its not scary. It is consistent. This is how you regulate the temperature and keep it in the ideal range for the entire brumation period. Leaving them outside subjects them to wild temperature fluctuations in some cases. Sometimes much too warm and sometimes too cold. The fridge is always the correct temperature.


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## Thomas tortoise (Mar 22, 2022)

Tom said:


> Yes, but after a long lead in process. Its not scary. It is consistent. This is how you regulate the temperature and keep it in the ideal range for the entire brumation period. Leaving them outside subjects them to wild temperature fluctuations in some cases. Sometimes much too warm and sometimes too cold. The fridge is always the correct temperature.


How long do they need to be in the fridge?


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## biochemnerd808 (Mar 22, 2022)

All the questions you have are answered in some threads already. Here are a few, but there are many more via the search function. 

They go into a bin of coconut coir or clean sterilized dirt, with air holes, in the fridge after proper wind down. 





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Brumation post week 1: start winding down


For those of you who plan to fridge-brumate (hibernate) your tortoise, I'm going to post wind-down updates here for you to follow along. You may have noticed that your tortoise has stopped eating, and spends a lot of time hiding or even digging down. Even our captive bred Russian tortoises seem...




tortoiseforum.org









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Brumation wind-down week 3


Some of you may have been following mu other posts with the wind-down process. Last week, I still soaked the tortoises, and then set them under the light to bask for an hour so they were dried off, but then turned off their lights. They were no longer pooping during their soak, and spent most of...




tortoiseforum.org









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Waking your tortoise up from refrigerator brumation


The most important thing here is to avoid shock. You don't want any sudden temperature changes. A brumation should last at least 8 weeks at 37-41°F (3-5°C), but for Russian tortoises can last as long as 4 months, if the tortoises hold a steady weight and don't show any blushing on their...




tortoiseforum.org


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## Tom (Mar 22, 2022)

Thomas tortoise said:


> How long do they need to be in the fridge?


It varies. People tend to brumate younger, smaller tortoises for a shorter time frame. Maybe 8 weeks. Older animals are often left for 12-16 weeks. I go by the current weather when deciding to wake mine. I put them down around the end of November after a month long process. I wake them when we will have a consistent 10 day warm sunny spell in spring. After that, I use their temperature controlled night boxes to keep them up and healthy if we have spring cold spells.


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