# Can tortoises make best friends?



## yillt (May 22, 2014)

Ok, I do know that you all say two tortoises SHOULD NOT live together as torts aren't particularly a sociable creature. But even though I only have one tortoise I think they can make friends with each other and they can like other tortoises. The other day I found a video of a tortoise falling on its back then from a couple of metres away his friend walked over and with the top of his shell he pushed his friend back onto his feet. They then walked off together , side by side. The video is called ' tortoise helps friend who's flipped over 'incase you want to watch it. I put a fake tortoise in Billy's enclosure and he almost sprinted ( I'm not kidding) up to it and gently patted his head on The other tortoises head. I thought this might be a case of "please get out of my territory" but later that day I took out the fake tort and Billy ran round his enclosure madly and stood up on his hind legs trying to get out. Please share any experiences you have had with two tortoises helping each other or generally just becoming best friends.


----------



## Yvonne G (May 23, 2014)

I've seen that video. You're looking at it with the mind set that they're friendly because the person who posted the video 'brainwashed' you into thinking that. In real life, the tortoise was pushed over in a fight, and then pushed again righting it, also in a threatening manner. Then they walked off side-by-side because the aggressor wasn't finished with the fight yet.

When a tortoise bobs his head at another tortoise (...patted his head on the other tortoise's head..) that's the first sign of his displeasure at having found another tortoise in his yard. Then he was making sure the interloper was no where to be found.

Terryo has posted a couple of stories about two tortoises/turtles that 'pined' for each other when separated. So I'm sure there are instances, however, the usual and normal reaction is one of fighting, not one of friendship.


----------



## Tom (May 23, 2014)

That video is classic tortoise aggression. The aggressor even reaches out to bite the one he "helped" right after he rammed him again. Did you consider how he got on his back othe first place on wide open flat ground? He was on his back because his helper rammed him and flipped him over. He wasn't helping him, he was simply continuing the aggression and ramming him again and then chasing him out of his territory. Following behavior in tortoises is not friendly in most cases. It is aggression.

It is just this sort of lack of understanding that leads people to do things they shouldn't with tortoises.


----------



## Team Gomberg (May 23, 2014)

I agree with what's been said already.


----------



## Cowboy_Ken (May 23, 2014)

An attempt to explain this as “helping" would require the excepting that a tortoise has the mental capacity to project current events (my friend is stuck on his back) to a leap of future events (if he stays like that he will die). Yet at the same time not except that the tortoise has the mental capacity to see the future of food competition by saving the other. Too many contradicting conclusions in this assumption. Sorry.


----------



## KevinGG (May 23, 2014)

Tortoise like all reptiles have a reptilian brain. This means they are missing the Limbic portion which is responsible for love, compassion, bonding, etc. The only thing I have noticed regarding pairs is that it does provide a level of stimulation but it often results in aggression or injury so it isn't advised


----------



## yillt (May 23, 2014)

I have sort of changed my mind now. You are all so persuasive. I was kind of hoping some of you would say they could make friends because it would also be nice to think my tortoise likes me. I think he at least recognises me. Thanks for the comments so far and in advance to all the other people who have opinions.;?


----------



## Tom (May 23, 2014)

Your tortoise may not ever "like" you in our sense of the word, but you can certainly create a positive association between you and him in such a way that tortoise will intentionally seek you out and want to go to you. This is quite common with many species. Hand feeding, the warmth of your mammalian body, protection, water, shelter... All of these things could potentially make your tortoise "like" you more.


----------



## yillt (May 23, 2014)

Tom said:


> Your tortoise may not ever "like" you in our sense of the word, but you can certainly create a positive association between you and him in such a way that tortoise will intentionally seek you out and want to go to you. This is quite common with many species. Hand feeding, the warmth of your mammalian body, protection, water, shelter... All of these things could potentially make your tortoise "like" you more.


Yes I agree. When ever he sees me he runs over (probably expecting food). I am getting another margi but it will be in a separate cage. I already have the separate cage. We might collect the other tort tomorrow or in 3 months. I won't sleep tonight if it is tomorrow.


----------



## Neal (May 23, 2014)

I agree with the others that that particular video in reality shows aggression, not friendship.

I have not seen any sort of behavior that would indicate tortoises bond with each other, but I do think they can develop a "bond" with keepers. At least, it makes me feel warm and fuzzy inside as any sort of good relationship might, but I'm sure that exact feeling is not reciprocated by the tortoise.

To share a bit of an illustration - It's hard to walk in my backyard and not trip over a tortoise. They will come up to me (undoubtedly expecting food) and will wait patiently at my feet until I give in and pick some leaves or whatever for them. When I don't have food, they'll stay by me and let me rub their head and necks. It took time for them to be comfortable enough to approach me like that, but now they are confident enough to approach any person. I had a friend visit my place a few months back and while we were crouched down looking at some of my younger tortoises with our backs turned to the big leopards, one of my females approached us from behind and rammed my friend and then followed us around the rest of the yard.

Anyways, I am a believer that if a tortoise is well cared for, YOU can certainly bond with the tortoise and it can be an enjoyable experience. Even if in his mind he's only looking for an easy meal.


----------



## yillt (May 23, 2014)

I watched the video again. I turned the sound off and carefully observed the behaviour of the torts. You could easily see (without the sound ) the one on its back was terrified of the other one and it WAS trying to run away.


----------



## yillt (May 24, 2014)

Neal said:


> I agree with the others that that particular video in reality shows aggression, not friendship.
> 
> I have not seen any sort of behavior that would indicate tortoises bond with each other, but I do think they can develop a "bond" with keepers. At least, it makes me feel warm and fuzzy inside as any sort of good relationship might, but I'm sure that exact feeling is not reciprocated by the tortoise.
> 
> ...


I like to think my tortoise loves me too.


----------



## Lira (Jul 15, 2014)

Interesting reading guys! Many people here in Brazil have pushed for me to get a 'friend' for Lira, but I said no even before reading this and now I am glad. Here the common custom is to have two, they just live kind of free in the courtyards of a high percentage of homes. It's a different world, far detached from the TFO. I introduced Lira to three tortoises that live next door and she was frightened, not interested at all, pretty much the only time in her short life, that I saw her suck her head right into her shell, so we came swiftly home from 'torti-daydare' with the label "Does not play well with others!" (Just kidding). But because I handle her all the time, she is extremely sociable with people. Faced with 20 loud third graders in my classroom, she was calm and interested looking each child in the eye as we passed their desk to say "Hello!", not at all timid!


----------



## Reptilelove (Aug 3, 2014)

I found this interesting to read as my 2hermanns live together and I can feel the love between them, I can their papers and they have both been together from the beginning so I think they are truelly brothers. I know many help sheets say they are solitary but most zoos house them together anyway


----------



## Alaskamike (Aug 16, 2014)

Years ago I had a friend who was a tort lover and had several mature ones - a sulcata, leopard, and a russian. Kept them all together in a large yard in Alabama. Each had their own hide, patterns of movement, etc. The only time they were close together was when he would come out with treats. He knew allot about reptiles, and did not see any aggression. But he had about a 1/4 acre for them to roam. He had a big hound dog who also shared the yard with the torts, and seemed to bond with the sully. Odd couple. The dog would find the sully, lick its shell, lay down and the sully would push into the side of the dog and go to sleep.
None of this would I recommend. However, it worked in some odd way for them.
Animals are mostly predictable, will behave in ways dictated by instinct and need. But sometimes they defy our expectations, and develop relationships that surprise. But this is the exception, never the rule.


----------



## evelovestorts (Apr 19, 2019)

Hi everyone!

I think I’m 5 years late to this discussion, but I want to put forward my opinion.

I bought these two Hermanns 11 days apart from the same store, and they’ve always been friendly. Only a few bites, but nothing major. I believe they get along like a house on fire. 

One is female and one is male, and whether this contributes to this, I don’t know. But I have never seen any horrific incidents or aggression. 

I think if you have torts together from a young age, they’ll be fine together.

Also, my cousin owns a 57 year old Hermann tortoise who is male, and there has been no incidents when interacting with him either. If anything, he’s like their grandparent.


----------



## Lyn W (Apr 19, 2019)

You didn't say how long you have had the torts.
Tort bullying is very subtle and not always physically aggressive and obvious.
Things like staring, following, nudging or lying too close which is often mistaken for 'cuddling' (which torts don't do), hogging the best basking spot, lying on food etc are all forms of bullying behaviour which could mean that the tort on the receiving end is having a pretty miserable time of it and could be quite stressed. Unless you are aware of these behaviours you wouldn't know what's going on right under your nose until one becomes ill or injured.
Usually sexually mature males will constantly harass females to breed. If you have a massive space where the torts can avoid each other then they may be OK but the fact that the behaviour has escalated to biting shows that bullying is already going on. So why subject the poor tort being bitten to that?
Everyone thinks it won't happen to their torts, but if you do a search there are plenty of threads from members who have experience of this sort of behaviour with quite sad consequences. Torts are solitary creatures who like their own space so for the sake of your torts health and happiness you should separate.


----------



## TechnoCheese (Apr 19, 2019)

evelovestorts said:


> Hi everyone!
> 
> I think I’m 5 years late to this discussion, but I want to put forward my opinion.
> 
> ...



If there have only been a few bites, there is definitely bullying going on.

Tortoises bullying is rarely physical. It comes in the form of “Snuggling”(really crowding), “following”(really chasing), sleeping in the same hide when more are available(crowding), mounting each other, standing on food, sitting face to face, and really just being together in general. While these may look like affection, it is really one tortoise trying to push, stress, and chase the other out of its territory. They generally only bite when one’s has enough.

Tortoises should never be kept in pairs because there’s always a dominant and a subordinate, and neither can escape. All it brings is stress, and yours definitely need to be separated.


----------



## Tom (Apr 19, 2019)

evelovestorts said:


> Hi everyone!
> 
> I think I’m 5 years late to this discussion, but I want to put forward my opinion.
> 
> ...


You are late, but you are also wrong. Your incorrect assumptions will likely lead to injury, sickness, or death for your tortoises.

Please learn from the mistakes of so many others before you, and don't make your tortoises suffer the consequences of you learning the hard way. Separate them ASAP.


----------



## HollyLovesBob (Apr 20, 2019)

This is probably the wrong thread to ask this question but I wouldn't know where else to ask... 

Lyn mentioned ‘sexually mature males” earlier. Does anyone have a rough idea what that age is? For Eve’s Herman and for myself with a Russian boy who rudely flashed me his winky today for the first time!


----------



## Tom (Apr 20, 2019)

HollyLovesBob said:


> This is probably the wrong thread to ask this question but I wouldn't know where else to ask...
> 
> Lyn mentioned ‘sexually mature males” earlier. Does anyone have a rough idea what that age is? For Eve’s Herman and for myself with a Russian boy who rudely flashed me his winky today for the first time!


Its more dependent on size than age, but usually by two or three years old for the Testudo species.


----------



## HollyLovesBob (Apr 20, 2019)

Tom said:


> Its more dependent on size than age, but usually by two or three years old for the Testudo species.



Brilliant thanks Tom


----------

