# What permits do I need and how do I ge them?



## TortoiseBoy1999 (Nov 5, 2012)

So because someone else posted a thread similar to this one I wanted to know for myself. I am 13 and want to breed Russian tortoise's this spring, but it never occurred to me that I might need a permit. How old do I have to be to get one and where do I get one? As you can tell from my user name I live in Palmdale CA also I would like to breed Leopards in 7-8 years how would I go about that? Thanks TFO members


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## Tom (Nov 5, 2012)

You don't need any permits my friend. This is one of the few areas that the government is still not involved in.

Good luck. I hope you get lots and lots of babies!


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## TortoiseBoy1999 (Nov 5, 2012)

Tom said:


> You don't need any permits my friend. This is one of the few areas that the government is still not involved in.
> 
> Good luck. I hope you get lots and lots of babies!



Really? Even with selling them? I hope it stays like that until I can breed some Leopard's


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## dmmj (Nov 5, 2012)

Only tortoise that requires a permit to breed in CA, is the CDT, and it is very difficult to get one, you usually have to work through a program to get one.


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## TortoiseBoy1999 (Nov 5, 2012)

And I don't need a permit even for selling?


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## jtrux (Nov 6, 2012)

California is where all the law writers live so you guys can do what you want, everyone else has to follow them lol


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## TortoiseBoy1999 (Nov 6, 2012)

Sweet!


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## Tom (Nov 6, 2012)

Truth be told, this is part of the reason I choose to work with tortoises over some other species of animals that I really like. Their is no government involvement with most tortoise species. This is another reason I don't do much with CDTs, which I love. They are regulated, permitted and there are all sorts of rules, regulations and stipulations with them. No thanks. I will decide what is best for the tortoises in my care, not some remote bureaucratic branch of government with enforcement officers of questionable intelligence, character and values.


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## TortoiseBoy1999 (Nov 6, 2012)

Ok


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## TortoiseBoy1999 (Nov 13, 2012)

Ok, so i have a question for everyone. How long does it usually take for your Leopard tortoise eggs to incubate? YOU personally I don't want to know the usually for everyone I want to know from YOU personally as individuals. Thank you


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## bigred (Nov 13, 2012)

TortoiseBoy1999 said:


> Ok, so i have a question for everyone. How long does it usually take for your Leopard tortoise eggs to incubate? YOU personally I don't want to know the usually for everyone I want to know from YOU personally as individuals. Thank you



You would need a permit for a Radiated tortoise, to ship in and out of California. Im sure you will have one someday  Aim High. Im not sure about leopard eggs but redfoot eggs take 4 to 6 months. Ive got about 20 eggs in the incubator. Would your parents let you have a baby redfoot or 2


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## dmmj (Nov 13, 2012)

bigred said:


> TortoiseBoy1999 said:
> 
> 
> > Ok, so i have a question for everyone. How long does it usually take for your Leopard tortoise eggs to incubate? YOU personally I don't want to know the usually for everyone I want to know from YOU personally as individuals. Thank you
> ...


Is the radiated permit only for those coming outside from california?


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## Tom (Nov 14, 2012)

You need a CBW permit to cross state lines with a radiated. Galops too. If you buy either one of these species from within your own state, you don't need any permits. Everything else is free and clear to my knowledge. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

To answer the other question, leopard incubation depends. The Gpp subspecies needs a diapause (cooling period) then a room temp period, then they can be incubated. Different people have different "recipes" for how long they like to take at each stage. The breeder mine came from leaves them in the ground to incubate. He says they take from 12-18 months in the ground. Then it will depend on what temp you incubate them at.

Gpb eggs don't need a diapuase. I incubated a bunch at 88 and it took them around 100-106 days. Ask Neal how long Gpb eggs take in the ground.
Many captive U.S. leopards are mixes of different types from throughout their range. This greatly complicates an otherwise fairly simple answer.


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## TortoiseBoy1999 (Nov 14, 2012)

bigred said:


> Would your parents let you have a baby redfoot or 2



Nah, not to offend anyone or anything but I don't think I could really handle RF's. You know, with them being Omnivores and all. I'll admit they are really cool. But not quite the tortoise for me  But I do like seeing other people with them


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## EricIvins (Nov 14, 2012)

TortoiseBoy1999 said:


> bigred said:
> 
> 
> > Would your parents let you have a baby redfoot or 2
> ...



You do realize Leopards are omnivorous also? Same goes for just about any Tortoise species.......


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## TortoiseBoy1999 (Nov 14, 2012)

EricIvins said:


> You do realize Leopards are omnivorous also? Same goes for just about any Tortoise species.......



Yes, but RF's need more meat than most tortoise species.... I mean a Leopard's can live without any meat. But RF's HAVE to have some meat.


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## Baoh (Nov 14, 2012)

TortoiseBoy1999 said:


> EricIvins said:
> 
> 
> > You do realize Leopards are omnivorous also? Same goes for just about any Tortoise species.......
> ...



No.


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## TortoiseBoy1999 (Nov 14, 2012)

Baoh said:


> No.



That's what people on here have told me. And I have read that Leopard's don't need meat.


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## Laura (Nov 14, 2012)

RF can get thier meat protien from other things besides pinkies... cooked chicken, cat food... ...


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## TortoiseBoy1999 (Nov 14, 2012)

Laura said:


> RF can get thier meat protien from other things besides pinkies... cooked chicken, cat food... ...



Ok I'm sorry! I said I wasn't trying to offend anyone. I just said that, that is probably not the right tortoise for me. I don't have anything against RF's. Please forgive me people, I wasn't trying to make it seem like I was looking down upon RF's. I'll admit they are really cool 's


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## Neal (Nov 14, 2012)

TortoiseBoy1999 said:


> ...I would like to breed Leopards in 7-8 years how would I go about that? Thanks TFO members



Nothing special...you just need a pair of compatible size adults and away you go.

Incubation periods will vary a lot. Typically 3 - 4 months artificially is all it takes, though I have had some take almost 8 months artificially. If you leave them in ground, it could take over a year.


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## TortoiseBoy1999 (Nov 14, 2012)

Neal said:


> Nothing special...you just need a pair of compatible size adults and away you go.
> 
> Incubation periods will vary a lot. Typically 3 - 4 months artificially is all it takes, though I have had some take almost 8 months artificially. If you leave them in ground, it could take over a year.



Ok. I only have one Leopard but I'm selling my Russian's to get 3 more baby Leopards  Hopefully I'll get at least get one girl and one boy out of those 4


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## Tom (Nov 14, 2012)

TortoiseBoy1999 said:


> Baoh said:
> 
> 
> > No.
> ...



Tortoise boy, you have the general right idea. Boah and Eric like to be very technical at times and I don't know if they realize your age. Yes, tortoises are opportunists. Leopards can! and sometimes will! eat some meat if the opportunity presents itself. I have been told they are eat a fair amount of mammal feces in the wild too. Mostly from ungulates (like gazelle for example), but occasionally from a carnivore as well.

Most keepers agree that redfoots do require, or maybe "prefer" is a better word choice, more protein in their diet than some other species, but yes technically they can live with out it.

Those guys are not offended, they are just pointing out a technical inaccuracy, and not sugar coating it for you. Don't worry about it. You've done nothing offensive.


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## TortoiseBoy1999 (Nov 14, 2012)

Tom said:


> Tortoise boy, you have the general right idea. Boah and Eric like to be very technical at times and I don't know if they realize your age. Yes, tortoises are opportunists. Leopards can! and sometimes will! eat some meat if the opportunity presents itself. I have been told they are eat a fair amount of mammal feces in the wild too. Mostly from ungulates (like gazelle for example), but occasionally from a carnivore as well.
> 
> Most keepers agree that redfoots do require, or maybe "prefer" is a better word choice, more protein in their diet than some other species, but yes technically they can live with out it.
> 
> Those guys are not offended, they are just pointing out a technical inaccuracy, and not sugar coating it for you. Don't worry about it. You've done nothing offensive.



Thank you Tom for clearing that up  Yes, in case you guys didn't know I'm 13


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## Baoh (Nov 14, 2012)

TortoiseBoy1999 said:


> Baoh said:
> 
> 
> > No.
> ...



Protein is a requirement for all of these species, but the source of that can be from several options. You can keep them well without giving meat to any of them. You can keep them well with giving meat to any of them.

My leopards will take down isopods and the occasional small garden snail without my prompting. Most of these animals will consume what they come across in order to take nutritional advantage in the somewhat harsh situation that nature can provide.

There are vegetable sources, animal sources, fungal sources, algal sources, and so on. The bulk of many tortoises diets will have the greatest proportion of nutrients coming from plant matter, but it is normal for any of these species to consume some muscle tissue if they have it available to them. If the idea of giving them animal flesh puts you off, you can achieve fine care with vegetable protein. You could use eggs instead of outright flesh if that is more comfortable for you.

There is no biological law that mandates a red foot, for example, must be given meat and at any particular interval. However, it will require bioavailable protein in order to maintain its lean body mass and it will require more to increase its lean body mass. While protein can be deaminated to synthesize glucose for energy, it is easiest to think of protein as primarily the building blocks of tissue and carbohydrates and lipids as primarily energy media (with some exceptions such as lipid membranes or structural polysaccharides [sugars linked together]). Meat can serve this need. Other things can as well. Meat is easiest from a complete amino acid profile standpoint, but soy, eggs, and some other less common exceptions or combinations can serve the same requirement.




TortoiseBoy1999 said:


> Tom said:
> 
> 
> > Tortoise boy, you have the general right idea. Boah and Eric like to be very technical at times and I don't know if they realize your age. Yes, tortoises are opportunists. Leopards can! and sometimes will! eat some meat if the opportunity presents itself. I have been told they are eat a fair amount of mammal feces in the wild too. Mostly from ungulates (like gazelle for example), but occasionally from a carnivore as well.
> ...



Like Tom said, definitely not offensive to me. 

Age is not a handicap.  It is one kind of advantage on the low end and another kind of advantage on the high end. I would feel shorted if people held this kind of information back from me when I was 13, so I offer you the same informational respect I would expect.


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## TortoiseBoy1999 (Nov 14, 2012)

Baoh said:


> Protein is a requirement for all of these species, but the source of that can be from several options. You can keep them well without giving meat to any of them. You can keep them well with giving meat to any of them.
> 
> My leopards will take down isopods and the occasional small garden snail without my prompting. Most of these animals will consume what they come across in order to take nutritional advantage in the somewhat harsh situation that nature can provide.
> 
> ...





Ok. Thank you


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## bigred (Nov 14, 2012)

TortoiseBoy1999 said:


> Laura said:
> 
> 
> > RF can get thier meat protien from other things besides pinkies... cooked chicken, cat food... ...
> ...



Dont worry about upsetting anyone, I just saw that you were in california and was going to give you a couple of my hatchlings when they hatch. I think its great that you know what species you want to work with. I figured it would be a good learning experience for you. Good luck to you and you can learn alot from these forum members




dmmj said:


> bigred said:
> 
> 
> > TortoiseBoy1999 said:
> ...



If you live in Calif you can buy a radiated tortoise in Calif. without a permit. You only need the permit if you want to buy a Radiated tortoise from out of state and have it shipped to you. I got mine about 6 months ago


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