# For those who use the heat mats.



## JennBell0725 (Oct 28, 2013)

Do you put them on the bottom of the shed/house or mount on the side? I'm really wanting to adopt a bigger sulcata and I'm trying to figure out how to house one over winter.


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## Sulcata_Sandy (Oct 28, 2013)

How big....some people's idea of big is different that another. [SMILING FACE WITH SMILING EYES]

I have a 50 lb Sully living in my house, and has the run of the living room, and a 5 lb Sully loose in the bedroom.
They go outside when it's warm, but winter indoors. I am moving in high spring so I will have more ideal housing, but for now, everyone is content.

I posted an ongoing story of his rescue and my setup. Lots of pictures and ideas. I wasn't sure how it would go, but it's been almost a month and everything is fantastic!

Here's a link to Oliver's thread. You may not want your tortoise in your living room, not all Sulcata are as polite as Oliver. Admittedly, I got lucky. Previous foster home said the same thing...he's a gentleman in the house.


http://tortoiseforum.org/thread-81012.html


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## Yvonne G (Oct 28, 2013)

I have them mounted both ways. In the leopard and Manouria sheds the pig blankets are mounted close to the floor, but on the walls. In the Sulcata, Aldabran and hospital sheds they are laying on the floor, but attached so they can't move.

The tortoises get more heat from the ones on the floor. The ones on the wall do add to the ambient air temp, but unless a tortoise is actually touching the pad, he doesn't really get heat from it. 

I prefer the ones on the floor, and as soon as I get some extra time, I'm going to take those off the walls and afix them to the floors.


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## wellington (Oct 28, 2013)

Unfortunately, the roaming of the house is not the proper set up for keeping a tortoise, so I wouldn't suggest that. The pig blankets, I have one on the floor of the hide, with a radiant heat panel above. Both are on the same thermostat.


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## JennBell0725 (Oct 28, 2013)

Yeah, In the house wouldn't work. I have 3 young children and It just wouldn't be sanitary. I was inquiring about an 80lb male, but the guy got an attitude when I started asking about how he keeps his over the winter. I was just asking questions and he got super defensive so I really don't feel comfortable going to meet him any more. So still on the look out, big sullies are not really abundant here in Louisiana. I was looking at the heat mats online an most said they could cause burns on the ground so I was just asking.


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## Sulcata_Sandy (Oct 28, 2013)

I have mine on a rheostat, let to middle. It's on top of a Rubbermaid, and it keeps the inside of the hide 85Â°

I definitely don't recommend a "living room Sully", but for temporary housing, it can work. But I live alone, one story, small house, mostly vinyl floor, and partial old carpet. He's got lots of hay to dig in, and spends time either basking or wandering around. If I'm at he dinning table, he comes over looking for handouts. I usually have some tortoise friendly treat for him. [SMILING FACE WITH SMILING EYES]

Next spring he will have a huge pen and horse stall to himself. Already designing it.

So, to answer your question, you can have the pad any way you like it. But I would strongly recommend a rheostat. I have the ZooMed one, off eBay for $15 shipped.


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## Tom (Oct 28, 2013)

Here is how I house mine. This will work year round in LA too.

http://www.tortoiseforum.org/thread-66867.html

An alternate method would be a 4x4x2' box with a Kane heat mat on bottom and a radiant heat panel on top. I run both on a thermostat.


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## JennBell0725 (Oct 28, 2013)

Thanks Tom, My dad is a contractor so I'll probably sweet talk him in to building me the house for my birthday, that won't be a problem since he probably already has enough stuff to build one. Where do you get your radiant heat panels? I found the kane mats but I haven't been able to find the heat panels.


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## wellington (Oct 28, 2013)

Not sure where Tom got his, but this is where I got mine http://www.reptilebasics.com/rbi-radiant-heat-panels


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## Lancecham (Oct 28, 2013)

Depending on the size of the "sleeping quarters", you can use a heat mat underneath the tortoise and a CHE from above. Both should be on thermostats. Theremostats can easily be purchased for about $30.


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## Yvonne G (Oct 29, 2013)

I don't think you need to worry about fire safety with a pig blanket. The heat elements are embedded inside the material the pad is made out of, and they are on the top of the pad, with the bottom being smooth. So most of the heat comes off the top. Also, it is similar to a human electric blanket. You don't want any substrate on the pad as that draws the heat to that section. I've been using pig blankets for around 20 years and I've never had one get hot enough to start a fire. In fact, in all that time, I've had several controllers stop working, but the pads are still going strong.

Here's where I buy mine:

http://www.osbornepetsupply.com/heat-pads/

Don't buy the cheap controller, buy the F911. 

The company is very nice to deal with, and ship out your order same day, so you get it usually within the week.


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## Tom (Oct 29, 2013)

JennBell0725 said:


> Thanks Tom, My dad is a contractor so I'll probably sweet talk him in to building me the house for my birthday, that won't be a problem since he probably already has enough stuff to build one. Where do you get your radiant heat panels? I found the kane mats but I haven't been able to find the heat panels.



I get mine from the same place as Barb. The RHP must be somewhat close to the tortoise to work. Not good for a 4' high box. My boxes are about 20" inside and they work great. I don't like CHEs or heat bulbs for this application because they focus too much heat in one small spot. This can dry out the top of the carapace and cause a "slow burn". I stopped using them for this reason. The RHPs give off the same heat, but spread out over a large area instead of focused on one tight spot. The surface of the RHP never gets hot enough to burn even if the animal were to be touching it.


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## N2TORTS (Oct 29, 2013)

Tom and Yvonneâ€™ â€¦ question for ya â€¦ When using the â€œheat matsâ€ as mentioned how deep is the substrate in your hides? Why I ask is even within my huts and large enough to accommodate a separate nesting box â€¦you wouldnâ€™t believe how many times a female decides to nest within the â€œheated hideâ€ itself. So for that reason I have to run 12-16â€ of soil depth thru the bottom of the hides themselvesâ€¦.and actually has proven well as I get eggs rear around no problems . So with that in mind how well does the heat transfer up thru the medium and in my case any time one of the females feels any kind of obstructions , or reaches the bottom of the hide and hits wood â€¦ she will stop and go look for another , deeper place to nest. I myself would like to try one of these mats but not sure it would be adequate â€¦ what do you think?


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## Tom (Oct 29, 2013)

N2TORTS said:


> Tom and Yvonneâ€™ â€¦ question for ya â€¦ When using the â€œheat matsâ€ as mentioned how deep is the substrate in your hides? Why I ask is even within my huts and large enough to accommodate a separate nesting box â€¦you wouldnâ€™t believe how many times a female decides to nest within the â€œheated hideâ€ itself. So for that reason I have to run 12-16â€ of soil depth thru the bottom of the hides themselvesâ€¦.and actually has proven well as I get eggs rear around no problems . So with that in mind how well does the heat transfer up thru the medium and in my case any time one of the females feels any kind of obstructions , or reaches the bottom of the hide and hits wood â€¦ she will stop and go look for another , deeper place to nest. I myself would like to try one of these mats but not sure it would be adequate â€¦ what do you think?



According to Mr. Craig Kane, you cannot use ANY substrate of any kind on the surface of the heat mat. Some people build a small elevated platform for the mat to rest on, so there can be substrate elsewhere. The new Kane mats all have an embedded failsafe thermostat, in addition to the rheostat style controller, so if some substrate somehow ended up on the mat, it would not be an issue.


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## N2TORTS (Oct 29, 2013)

thanks for the quick reply Mr. Tom ...so I take it your hides themselve's are bare floored? Also with one or two torts I guess not too bad , but what about cleaning fecal/urine waste matter off the mats , which I believe are â€œwater tightâ€ is this much of a problem ? Having to yank them in and out to sterilize them on a much needed basis ? Or as the OP questioned , they reside under the hide itself. (which I still think would collect run-off from the surrounding area)


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## Tom (Oct 29, 2013)

In my bigger boxes with multiple torts I use radiant oil-heaters. I only use the mats in smaller 4x4 boxes with a single large tort or lizard. I just rake, scrape or sweep anything off the mat and floor in those boxes. I don't ever remove or sanitize the mats. One would NOT want to eat off the floors in there.


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## Kapidolo Farms (Oct 29, 2013)

For much larger tortoises, like Galops, we used 250 Watt heat lamps at about 30 inches height above the top of the shell at the Fresno Chaffee zoo.

No one heat lamp would have been sufficient for even one tortoise, no matter the wattage. So three or four were used on one side of the night house ( there were two night houses) to create a whole heated zone, not just a one point focus of heat. At that distance for those size bulbs and tortoises, no 'heat damage' occurred over several years.

Since then, but not right this day, I have followed that example. It serves many purposes. If one of four or three bulbs burn out between checks, two or three others are still working. 

I have set this up with a group of both illuminating and 75 watt infrared bulbs for one heated area, so the illuminating bulb was on a timer for day length simulation, and the infrared bulbs were on the thermostat for heat. During the day the infrared would go on and off for meeting heat needs, while the illuminating bulbs just stayed on. At night the thermostat still regulated the infrared bulbs, for heat in the same general area, but the illuminating bulb was off. This was used with one 75 watt flood lamp for illumination and two 75 watt infrared for heat.

This same kind of way to heat can be done with three or four 100 watt infrared bulbs set apart in a triangle or square to make a heated area. It is always a good idea to have the heat provided by more than one source, two bulbs, two matts/heaters etc, so should one fail, your animal is still getting some heat. The matt below and panel above serves this purpose as well.

A simple redundancy like this may not be needed most of the time, but that one time it would have been good is worth the effort and cost in my opinion. So three 100 watt infrareds, IMO, is better than one 250 watt bulb (not just for the 50 watts more, but for the spread of the heat, and the fall back to two bulbs should one fail between checks). If one is just always on and the other two are run with a thermostats you will not over heat, and you will have on line backup, should any one bulb burn out. That way you may be saving on electricity with the thermostat regulating precisely when more heat is needed. In this case the thermostat probe should be placed where the 'extra' bulbs will apply heat, not directly under the primary bulb.

The bulbs should be placed high enough so the temp used to evaluate them is at the top of the shell. You can evaluate the temp at this place in the air, by simply hanging a thermometer at the height of the top of the shell. The thermostat probe should also be placed at this height.

Right now I do not use any night houses, so I can not offer an image. But this kind of system had worked well for at least 20 years at the zoo for galops.

Will


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## N2TORTS (Oct 29, 2013)

Got ya ..... now maybe you can fill me in on those oil type heaters 
How about a thread and some info ? ..... I have been wondering about them for a long time ...and now with the two tort huts my Elec is thru the roof! ...

Thanks again .... perfect answer and makes sense ..!


Will ...that's just about what I got going on now ...but like mentioned the elec bill is creeping!


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## Yvonne G (Oct 29, 2013)

I have the pig blankets mounted on the walls in the sheds where I use substrate. But I'm not happy with that arrangement.

When the pig blanket is on the floor, there is no substrate. First, cement, then a thick rubber mat (horse stall mat), then the pig blanket.


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## Team Gomberg (Oct 29, 2013)

*Re: RE: For those who use the heat mats.*



N2TORTS said:


> Got ya ..... now maybe you can fill me in on those oil type heaters
> How about a thread and some info ? .....



I'll be using the same mini oiled filled radiator Tom uses. It's sold at Walmart for $40. It's going into a fully insulated 4x2 night box here. When you read the product reviews people claim they don't heat the house well enough but again...we use it for such small spaces that it works fantastic! (fantastic according to Tom and I'll soon find out)


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## kingskettle (Nov 2, 2013)

I'm planning on buying a small oil filled heater,similar to that used in Tom's night box,for my two leopards. The smallest I've looked at so far are 600watts. Is this the size you guys have used? Their night quarters will be about the same size as the box Tom has made.

www.cactusinspain.com.


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## Tom (Nov 2, 2013)

600 watts would be on high. That is meant for use in a larger room. I use mine on low at 250 watts. The genius thing is that once the temp gets high enough, the heater kicks off and uses no more electricity for a while, but that hot oil just keeps giving off heat. My heaters only come on two or three times a night most nights and only for a short while.


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## kingskettle (Nov 3, 2013)

Tom said:


> 600 watts would be on high. That is meant for use in a larger room. I use mine on low at 250 watts. The genius thing is that once the temp gets high enough, the heater kicks off and uses no more electricity for a while, but that hot oil just keeps giving off heat. My heaters only come on two or three times a night most nights and only for a short while.



OK, thanks for that. I've never used that sort of heater. here we only have a wood burning fire for when it's cold in February/March time. I'll have a look at them this week.


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