# Rabbit cage??



## Megang97 (Dec 23, 2020)

Hello!

I originally got my 2 year old Hermanns vivarium and after doing some research on them and how they could be bad for him I’m going to get him something new!

ive been speaking to a few people and a lot of people have suggested XXL hamster/Guinea pig cages or an indoor rabbit cage. Would this be advisable and what is the best way to regulate heat and to attach a basking lamp, etc.

I have also been looking at tortoise table but a lot of them look quite low and he is definitely a climber!

any advice is highly appreciated


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## Olive_Hermann (Dec 24, 2020)

Hi! I have a rabbit cage as my set-up as advised by the breeder. She recommended it is 120cm x 60cm. I have drilled holes around the edge of mine and used cable ties to secure it (because I have a four year old!) But you probably wouldn’t need to do that and can leave the metal too off and use a bulb holder on a stand over the top for basking, don’t know what you’d do for a UV tube though ?. I have cut the wire of mine so that I could put the bulb holder in the enclosure and attached a T5 UV bulb along the top inside in the middle. My Hermann’s seems to like it. 
There is someone selling one on eBay that I really like that is an alternative to rabbit cage: 








Tortoise Table - Full Set Up incl x2 Thermostats, Lights, Timers & Bio Plants | eBay


Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Tortoise Table - Full Set Up incl x2 Thermostats, Lights, Timers & Bio Plants at the best online prices at eBay! Free delivery for many products!



www.ebay.co.uk





I have this cage and it’s really nice:









KROLIK


Krolik is the range of cages for rabbits and guinea pigs characterized by a completely removable system of both the net and the bottom, equipped with a front door and roof that can be completely opened. Easy to assemble, they can be assembled in a very short time thanks to simple steps: the side...




www.ferplast.co.uk






Good luck with it all x


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## Blackdog1714 (Dec 24, 2020)

Hello you two! Firstly rabbit cages are for rabbits. A tortoise needs a large amount of space as the walking around aids in the digestion of food. Please read the following guide https://www.tortoiseforum.org/threa...ise-any-temperate-species-of-tortoise.183131/


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## Tom (Dec 24, 2020)

Megang97 said:


> Hello!
> 
> I originally got my 2 year old Hermanns vivarium and after doing some research on them and how they could be bad for him I’m going to get him something new!
> 
> ...


You are reading the wrong stuff. Vivs are fine as ling as they are large enough. They usually aren't, so you have to make something bigger.

Its very difficult to maintain the correct temps and humidity in an open topped enclosure.

Read the link from Blackdog.


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## Megang97 (Dec 25, 2020)

Olive_Hermann said:


> Hi! I have a rabbit cage as my set-up as advised by the breeder. She recommended it is 120cm x 60cm. I have drilled holes around the edge of mine and used cable ties to secure it (because I have a four year old!) But you probably wouldn’t need to do that and can leave the metal too off and use a bulb holder on a stand over the top for basking, don’t know what you’d do for a UV tube though ?. I have cut the wire of mine so that I could put the bulb holder in the enclosure and attached a T5 UV bulb along the top inside in the middle. My Hermann’s seems to like it.
> There is someone selling one on eBay that I really like that is an alternative to rabbit cage:
> 
> 
> ...



Thank you!! I have a basking light that is also a UV bulb and the room he’s in let’s in a lot of daylight so it’s nice and bright in there for him!

thanks for your help and the link, I’ll definitely get one like that (if not that exact one) x


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## Olive_Hermann (Dec 27, 2020)

Blackdog1714 said:


> Hello you two! Firstly rabbit cages are for rabbits. A tortoise needs a large amount of space as the walking around aids in the digestion of food. Please read the following guide https://www.tortoiseforum.org/threa...ise-any-temperate-species-of-tortoise.183131/



Blackdog, I’ve read Tom’s post about enclosure and it very much has helped me with lighting and heat but in regards to the type of enclosure there are far more posts saying that they are the wrong type of housing the right, but there aren’t any about open top cages/tables (obviously air temp should be warm for open top and in closed room out of direct sunlight) and I am going to put a ploytunnel over enclosure of night time to increase night humidity - as recommended by GardenStateTortoise.
Tom is a professional breeder and has a lot of knowledge so I’m sure it works for him but I’d rather not risk it. It’s only for this winter then tortoise will be going outside - an hour a day as recommended by Tom, then I plan to hibernate tortoise via fridge method next winter. And she get plenty of exercise! Regards, Jay


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## Megang97 (Dec 27, 2020)

Blackdog1714 said:


> Hello you two! Firstly rabbit cages are for rabbits. A tortoise needs a large amount of space as the walking around aids in the digestion of food. Please read the following guide https://www.tortoiseforum.org/threa...ise-any-temperate-species-of-tortoise.183131/



Hello, I took some advice from a tortoise vet and lady whose had her own tortoise run rescue centre since ‘98 who advised about a rabbit cage in the first place (she’s always kept hers in them)

she actually said tortoise tables are fine but don’t allow enough room (usually) - vivariums are not recommended for a Hermanns.

the rabbit cage I’m considering is very large and actually 6ft x 3ft which would be enough room for a juvenile Hermanns; or i would hope!

I am very open to suggestions and want to get the best thing for him - I’m definitely a newbie and taking all the advice I can get right now

what enclosures do you recommend?


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## Megang97 (Dec 27, 2020)

Tom said:


> You are reading the wrong stuff. Vivs are fine as ling as they are large enough. They usually aren't, so you have to make something bigger.
> 
> Its very difficult to maintain the correct temps and humidity in an open topped enclosure.
> 
> Read the link from Blackdog.



i had a viv and it seemed like it was driving him mental, he kept pacing up and down and scratching the glass (then climbing up to it and flipping over and getting stuck) 

it’s quite cold in the UK at the moment so I’ve avoiding the garden for the time being but definitely going to be building him something for the summer too!

do you advise using something like a rabbit cage or tortoise table indoors? A vet and lady who owns a tortoise rescue centre advised I got a rabbit cage as they’re cheaper and very good in the long run - she suggested I got rid of the viv in the first place.

he’s had a check over and is happy and healthy which is good


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## Tom (Dec 27, 2020)

Megang97 said:


> i had a viv and it seemed like it was driving him mental, he kept pacing up and down and scratching the glass (then climbing up to it and flipping over and getting stuck)
> 
> it’s quite cold in the UK at the moment so I’ve avoiding the garden for the time being but definitely going to be building him something for the summer too!
> 
> ...


You cannot maintain warm humid conditions with an open top or cage top in a cold room. Imagine heating your home with no roof or ceiling. You could run the heater all night, and it won't work. Further, there is no commercially made or sold rabbit cage that is large enough to hold an adult Testudo. The largest ones are still far too small. Not sure what size your two year old is, but if he's larger than about 4", the largest rabbit cage will be too small. Having an open cage on top won't make the tortoise feel more comfortable in a space that is too small and/or not heated or lit properly.

One problem with a viv is that most people are using something too small. What size tortoise have you got and what size viv?

Next thing to look at is lighting. Were you using a cfl bulb for UV? What sort of heat lamp? UV bulb? Any additional lighting?

I start all my babies in vivariums (aka: closed chambers). They are all large, have hiding areas, correct lighting, correct temps, correct substrate, and none of my babies scratch the glass or flip themselves trying to get out. Here is what mine look like for reference:





New Stack of Animal Plastics CLosed Chambers


AKA: Tom's baby emporium. @GStars asked for a pic on my new baby raising enclosures the other day. I only had a partial, but I took a fuller one today. Each cage is 96x30 and divided in the middle into two 48x30 cages for starting babies. The colored tape on each upper right corner shows the...




tortoiseforum.org





Open tables work when the room conditions are the needed conditions for the tortoise. If you are heating and humidifying the entire room to the correct levels, and the rabbit cage is suitably large enough for the tortoise, then and only then, would this be a good way to go.


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## Megang97 (Dec 27, 2020)

Tom said:


> You cannot maintain warm humid conditions with an open top or cage top in a cold room. Imagine heating your home with no roof or ceiling. You could run the heater all night, and it won't work. Further, there is no commercially made or sold rabbit cage that is large enough to hold an adult Testudo. The largest ones are still far too small. Not sure what size your two year old is, but if he's larger than about 4", the largest rabbit cage will be too small. Having an open cage on top won't make the tortoise feel more comfortable in a space that is too small and/or not heated or lit properly.
> 
> One problem with a viv is that most people are using something too small. What size tortoise have you got and what size viv?
> 
> ...



Hi Tom, thanks for your reply!

I was always told that a Hermanns wouldn’t need too much humidity, as long as he’s got a nice humid hide and I spray his substrate maybe a few times a week, which I’ve been doing regularly. I am considering changing his substrate and giving him more variety, it’s a sandy soil type mixture that I got from a reptile shop online (which I have done research in before buying from) but he borrows himself and keeps getting it over his face which I’m worried will cause an eye infection of some kind at some point. I’m thinking of getting him a few different substrates so he has something new and exciting.

he is about 2.5 to 3 inches and his vivarium is 6ft x 2.5ft I believe (or there abouts) - unfortunately he does seem stressed, and this may not be caused by the viv but I’m not sure what else it’ll be. His temperatures are 35 degrees under his basking lamp and 33 in the hot area not directly under it, 26 degrees in the middle and around 22-24 in the colder area. Doing research these all seem fine (please advise if they’re not!)

he has a 150 watt basking lamp and a separate UV bulb so the enclosure is very bright. He has 12-13 hours with his lights on.

he has two hides (both humid) a large log he can walk through, some slate in his basking area, a few rocks and I also scatter his food for some enrichment too.

Would you not recommend anything open top/more open than a viv in the long run? Or as long as it’s big enough it’s fine?☺


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## JoesMum (Dec 27, 2020)

Megang97 said:


> Hi Tom, thanks for your reply!
> 
> I was always told that a Hermanns wouldn’t need too much humidity, as long as he’s got a nice humid hide and I spray his substrate maybe a few times a week, which I’ve been doing regularly. I am considering changing his substrate and giving him more variety, it’s a sandy soil type mixture that I got from a reptile shop online (which I have done research in before buying from) but he borrows himself and keeps getting it over his face which I’m worried will cause an eye infection of some kind at some point. I’m thinking of getting him a few different substrates so he has something new and exciting.
> 
> ...


There is a lot of outdated care information out there... on the internet, anecdotal, in books, from pet stores and, sadly, from some breeders and vets too.

Hermann’s, like most tortoises, need high humidity and steady warmth when they’re young. As they grow older, they’ll cope outdoors in a UK summer and the humidity is less of an issue.

There are some extremely experienced keepers offering advice that a rabbit cage isn’t suitable and I will join them.

Tortoises need a good depth of substrate. With the best will in the world this gets kicked out through the wire on the front of a rabbit cage.

The floor area isn‘t large enough. Tortoises roam for miles in the wild and in captivity, you need to cater for that.

A wire front will just leave you with a scrabbling tortoise trying to get out and it’s at risk of tearing its claws on the wire. The solid sides of a table are safer as they can’t see anywhere to go. In a glass viv, keepers frequently have to block the view to stop the tortoise trying to get out.

It is impossible to maintain humidity and temperature in an open enclosure. Heat is very important to cold blooded creature like a tortoise as it needs external heat in order to be active, eat and even to digest food.

We are all offering this advice with decades of tortoise experience each (I had mine 47 years). We are not saying it just to be awkward. We want to try to help you not make the mistakes that so many of us have made in the past.


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## Tom (Dec 27, 2020)

Megang97 said:


> Hi Tom, thanks for your reply!
> 
> I was always told that a Hermanns wouldn’t need too much humidity, as long as he’s got a nice humid hide and I spray his substrate maybe a few times a week, which I’ve been doing regularly. I am considering changing his substrate and giving him more variety, it’s a sandy soil type mixture that I got from a reptile shop online (which I have done research in before buying from) but he borrows himself and keeps getting it over his face which I’m worried will cause an eye infection of some kind at some point. I’m thinking of getting him a few different substrates so he has something new and exciting.
> 
> ...


Its correct that hermanni don't need "too much" humidity. Their humidity needs are lower than most of the tropical species, but growing babies DO need at least moderate humidity and the ability to find, make, and/or utilize higher humidity areas for hiding out in, just as they would in the wild. Most indoor enclosures, at least the open topped ones, are far TOO dry. Unnaturally dry, and the electric heating and lighting dries everything out even more. This is why you see so many pyramided tortoises.

Sand or soil should never be used for tortoise substrates. Both are potentially dangerous and irritating, as you've already seen.

6x2.5 feet is a HUGE vivarium and certainly adequate for a 3 inch tortoise. That is much larger than the sizes usually used in the UK. Good for you! Wise choice there.

What type of UV bulb are you using? Some of them burn reptile eyes and shouldn't be used. This could cause the behavior you've seen.

150 watts sounds huge for a closed chamber of this size. I use 45 watt bulbs in my chambers of similar size during colder weather, but my reptile room is probably a lot warmer than your house. Let your thermometer be your guide here, not me, and your temps all sound really good.

As long as it is large enough, a viv can be used forever. Most people in the UK seem to let their houses get much colder than what we do over here. A viv makes maintaining the correct temps for your tortoise much easier. If you were to buy the rabbit cage, I can guarantee you'd be back here in sort order asking how to maintain the right temps and keep it from drying out so badly. Using a viv is like putting the roof back on your house. Much easier to heat if there is a top on your house, or on your tortoises house. 

This is the care info for your tortoise. It includes all aspects of care and feeding. You might find some useful info here: https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/the-best-way-to-raise-any-temperate-species-of-tortoise.183131/


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## Megang97 (Dec 27, 2020)

JoesMum said:


> There is a lot of outdated care information out there... on the internet, anecdotal, in books, from pet stores and, sadly, from some breeders and vets too.
> 
> Hermann’s, like most tortoises, need high humidity and steady warmth when they’re young. As they grow older, they’ll cope outdoors in a UK summer and the humidity is less of an issue.
> 
> ...



hello, and thank you!

in regards to outdated info online, etc. I agree with you completely and it’s hard to know what the best advice is! However, I’ve seen a few things on this forum about vivs being bad (I can’t find the exact link, sorry) and how tortoise tables and that kind of enclosure is advisable. In fact, most people on here (by the looks of things) say tortoise tables are the best - I understand this may depend on the tortoise. Although achieving the right heat may be trickier in a more open enclosure.

I will always get something that is at least 6ft by 2.5-3ft to make sure my tort has plenty of roaming space!

unfortunately, it’s hard to know what is best to listen to as the majority say vivs don’t give enough ventilation but are better at maintaining a good temperature during the day and overnight. Is there any way to get a good and steady temperature in an enclosure like a rabbit cage or tortoise table or is it near impossible?


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## Megang97 (Dec 27, 2020)

Tom said:


> Its correct that hermanni don't need "too much" humidity. Their humidity needs are lower than most of the tropical species, but growing babies DO need at least moderate humidity and the ability to find, make, and/or utilize higher humidity areas for hiding out in, just as they would in the wild. Most indoor enclosures, at least the open topped ones, are far TOO dry. Unnaturally dry, and the electric heating and lighting dries everything out even more. This is why you see so many pyramided tortoises.
> 
> Sand or soil should never be used for tortoise substrates. Both are potentially dangerous and irritating, as you've already seen.
> 
> ...



thanks Tom! Regardless to the enclosure I will always make sure my tort has plenty of room to roam around (and plenty of enrichment too, I’d hate for him to be bored!)

the substrate isn’t actually sand or soil (I don’t believe) just is that sort of consistency - unfortunately he has a habit of going in his water bowl and then submerging himself in his substrate which isn’t ideal - I’m keeping an eye on him, don’t worry! I’ve got some new substrate on the way of many varieties (he’s becoming very spoilt) ?

luckily my house is quite new and contains heat quite well (being winter the heating is on everyday anyway). Would there be any way to be able to maintain a good temperature in a more open enclosure as opposed to a viv? I’m concerned as I’ve seen quite a few threads about why they’re not ideal. I’m not doubting your experience or methods, I just like hearing both sides before I make a discussion whether to change his home or not! The viv has given me what seems to be good temperatures but I have also been told than the cold end isn’t “cold enough” and should be the same as room temperature, likewise with overnight as it should imitate day and night and drop to reflect this.

I have been talking to a vet and lady who has been ruining a tortoise charity type thing for the past 20+ years and she has been very helpful. She’s checked him over and he seems fit and healthy which is great. She was the one who suggested a rabbit cage to me. As discussed with Joe some info and advice may be outdated so I do want to get all angles possible. She seemed concerned he’s in a viv. I know it’s a matter of opinion and people may never agree but I’m weighing up all choices.

regarding the UV bulb, I’ll be honest, I’ll not too sure on the exact one (I have the box in the car boot so will check shortly and let you know!)


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## Tom (Dec 27, 2020)

Megang97 said:


> thanks Tom! Regardless to the enclosure I will always make sure my tort has plenty of room to roam around (and plenty of enrichment too, I’d hate for him to be bored!)
> 
> the substrate isn’t actually sand or soil (I don’t believe) just is that sort of consistency - unfortunately he has a habit of going in his water bowl and then submerging himself in his substrate which isn’t ideal - I’m keeping an eye on him, don’t worry! I’ve got some new substrate on the way of many varieties (he’s becoming very spoilt) ?
> 
> ...


You don't need multiple different substrates. Use either coco coir, fine grade orchid bark, or cypress mulch if you can't find either of the first two. The "Pets at Home" stuff typically sold in the UK is bad stuff. Dangerous. Anything with sand or soil in it should not be used.

Not many of the regulars on this site are going to tell you that a closed chamber is bad, or that a table is better in a cold dry room.

Its easy to get the necessary night drop in temp in a viv. Just set all your lights and heat to turn off, and the viv will drop to room temp every night. When the lights kick back on in the morning, it will heat back up.

Sounds like your vet lady is parroting the same wrong info that has been taught and learned by almost everyone keeping tortoises for the last 3 decades. I used to do it too, until I figured out all the stuff I've been telling you through trial and error and multiple experiments.


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## Megang97 (Dec 28, 2020)

Tom said:


> You don't need multiple different substrates. Use either coco coir, fine grade orchid bark, or cypress mulch if you can't find either of the first two. The "Pets at Home" stuff typically sold in the UK is bad stuff. Dangerous. Anything with sand or soil in it should not be used.
> 
> Not many of the regulars on this site are going to tell you that a closed chamber is bad, or that a table is better in a cold dry room.
> 
> ...



I’ve actually got him coco noir and orchid bark after seeing them so recommended on here, so that’s all good I’ve also got him a new thermometer that measures the humidity and also the temperature too. Shall I aim for around 50-60% for a 2 year old Hermanns? I’ve also seen something suggesting a bin liner/a waterproof surface and covering that in water and then adding your substrate to help with humidity - would that help or would that be completely incorrect? (I haven’t done it)

that’s what I was afraid of - I’m not doubting her knowledge or experience, and, in fact, she was extremely helpful but I was concerned her experience may be slightly outdated and a lot has changed since she’s been in practice, etc etc.

he’s still in his viv anyway so due to recommendations on here I’m likely to keep him in it and just try and tweak a few things so he doesn’t scratch the glass and it’s annoying him and he turns himself over a lot climbing up to it. Do you suggest looking into a different UV bulb or even covering the bottom of the glass up with something so he can’t see through it? 

thanks for your help


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## Tom (Dec 28, 2020)

Megang97 said:


> I’ve actually got him coco noir and orchid bark after seeing them so recommended on here, so that’s all good☺ I’ve also got him a new thermometer that measures the humidity and also the temperature too. Shall I aim for around 50-60% for a 2 year old Hermanns? I’ve also seen something suggesting a bin liner/a waterproof surface and covering that in water and then adding your substrate to help with humidity - would that help or would that be completely incorrect? (I haven’t done it)
> 
> that’s what I was afraid of - I’m not doubting her knowledge or experience, and, in fact, she was extremely helpful but I was concerned her experience may be slightly outdated and a lot has changed since she’s been in practice, etc etc.
> 
> ...


The reason we want humidity is to prevent pyramiding and also help keep the tortoise better hydrated through reducing moisture loss through respiration. I'd aim closer to 60-80% humidity for a small growing tortoise, and be sure to provide areas where the baby can find more humidity like damp substrate to dig into and a humid hide.

Your substrate should be damp. Not sopping wet, but damp. A nice 3-4 inch layer of orchid bark makes this easy. The lower layers can be relatively wet, which helps create humidity, while the upper layers, where the tort usually is walking around and having contact, remain dry-ish.

I still don't know what type of UV bulb you are running and at what distance from the tortoise, so I can't yet make a recommendation there. Are you using any cfl type bulbs? The mini fluorescent ones that screw in? Aka: Coil bulbs?


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## Megang97 (Dec 28, 2020)

fine, noted. Thank you! I’ll definitely aim for the 80% mark as he is only little and still has lots of growing to do.

im using an arcadia proT5 UBV kit 22in/24 watt, it’s at the top of my viv and it’s screwed in with a holder for the UV bulb.

would one of those basking bulbs that also acts as a UV light be best? Only thing is I cannot connect those to my thermostat.


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## Olive_Hermann (Dec 28, 2020)

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## Olive_Hermann (Dec 28, 2020)

Bottom of the page. Listen, I think you are right, they do need a slightly raised enclosure to keep in the heat, but to make people feel bad about their enclosure when everything is right for the tortoise is a shame. I’ve asked to delete my account because of this post because I don’t want to be seen as the bad guy. But it just shows the tortoise protection group is recommended these types of enclosures over vivs. Please try to be nice to people because otherwise it takes away the pleasure from tortoise keeping. Before I got Olive I already planned to add sheets to the sides a bit to add extra heat (but not completely closed) against my tortoise breeder recommended because I also believe her info was out of date. Thank you Tom, once again you have been very helpful x


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## JoesMum (Dec 28, 2020)

Olive_Hermann said:


> Bottom of the page. Listen, I think you are right, they do need a slightly raised enclosure to keep in the heat, but to make people feel bad about their enclosure when everything is right for the tortoise is a shame. I’ve asked to delete my account because of this post because I don’t want to be seen as the bad guy. But it just shows the tortoise protection group is recommended these types of enclosures over vivs. Please try to be nice to people because otherwise it takes away the pleasure from tortoise keeping. Before I got Olive I already planned to add sheets to the sides a bit to add extra heat (but not completely closed) against my tortoise breeder recommended because I also believe her info was out of date. Thank you Tom, once again you have been very helpful x


I am very sorry if I or we upset you. It certainly wasn’t intended. Like everyone here I try to help people do what’s best for their tortoise. Sometimes the typed word is not read in the way it was intended and for that I am sorry.


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## Olive_Hermann (Dec 28, 2020)

JoesMum said:


> I am very sorry if I or we upset you. It certainly wasn’t intended. Like everyone here I try to help people do what’s best for their tortoise. Sometimes the typed word is not read in the way it was intended and for that I am sorry.



Thanks JoeMums but you did say “I do not agree with this type of enclosure” how is that to be intended lol. I really like my enclosure and it works for us and Olive is doing well in it. I understand you want to help tortoises’ and want the best for them and I understand this but I really have done my research and this does suit us and Olive, don’t get me wrong this type of enclosure all year round, for years on end is not suitable. But I do understand your point. Thanks anyway.


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## Megang97 (Dec 28, 2020)

Olive_Hermann said:


> Bottom of the page. Listen, I think you are right, they do need a slightly raised enclosure to keep in the heat, but to make people feel bad about their enclosure when everything is right for the tortoise is a shame. I’ve asked to delete my account because of this post because I don’t want to be seen as the bad guy. But it just shows the tortoise protection group is recommended these types of enclosures over vivs. Please try to be nice to people because otherwise it takes away the pleasure from tortoise keeping. Before I got Olive I already planned to add sheets to the sides a bit to add extra heat (but not completely closed) against my tortoise breeder recommended because I also believe her info was out of date. Thank you Tom, once again you have been very helpful x



At the end of the day your first tort is overwhelming and I feel like you can never do enough research to prepare! As far as I’m concerned, as long as the tort has the right heat, humidity, substrate, food, etc. And had been checked by the vets like mine, it’s fine, it doesn’t matter on the home as long as these standards are met. Everyone is going to have opposing opinions, that’s why it’s an opinion. Rabbit cage, tortoise table, viv are all different and need to be adjusted to be correct - something open may be harder to get correct but it’s not to say it’s bad, as long as it’s monitored. It’s personal to you.

especially if it’s your first tort, you’re going to listen to the breeder more than anyone! If a rabbit cage works for you and your tort is happy and healthy, then fine - that’s the main thing

Tom as been extremely helpful and I completely appreciate all the advice he has offered - I’m sure he has a wealth of knowledge on tortoises. Vivs work for him and a rabbit cage may work for you. I’m just trying to find the correct thing for my little one or adjust the home he has!

please don’t feel bad about listening to advice from your breeder, it’s not to say they’re wrong, it’s probably what works for them and just different to what other people do! As long as your tort is healthy. You do you!


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## Olive_Hermann (Dec 28, 2020)

Megang97 said:


> At the end of the day your first tort is overwhelming and I feel like you can never do enough research to prepare! As far as I’m concerned, as long as the tort has the right heat, humidity, substrate, food, etc. And had been checked by the vets like mine, it’s fine, it doesn’t matter on the home as long as these standards are met. Everyone is going to have opposing opinions, that’s why it’s an opinion. Rabbit cage, tortoise table, viv are all different and need to be adjusted to be correct - something open may be harder to get correct but it’s not to say it’s bad, as long as it’s monitored. It’s personal to you.
> 
> especially if it’s your first tort, you’re going to listen to the breeder more than anyone! If a rabbit cage works for you and your tort is happy and healthy, then fine - that’s the main thing
> 
> ...


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## Megang97 (Dec 28, 2020)

Sorry, I didn’t realise, I didn’t mean to come across as condescending! I’m not doubting your torts home isn’t perfect, I’m sure it is and he’s perfectly happy and healthy  Likewise with “not doing enough research”, I’m sure you did!! Just not always research alone can prepare someone - I must admit I’ve learnt a lot more since picking up my little one than before I got him (and I’ve done years of research prior to picking him up). I’m sorry if that came across wrong.


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## Chubbs the tegu (Dec 28, 2020)

I am playing my lil violin


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