# Beware of raccoons!



## kimber_lee_314 (Sep 14, 2011)

We all know that raccoons kill turtle/tortoises. I keep mine in little boxes with doors that come down as ramps at night so the raccoon can't get them. Last night I hear the neighbor's dog barking so I went out and saw a raccoon in the yard. I shooed him away but felt confident that everyone was safe. Big mistake! He was able to rip the hinges of the ramp right off the box. He pulled out my sweet little ornate and chewed her up. I found her today and had to have her euthanized.  This is just a beware post for everyone, plus advice on how to keep this raccoon out of my yard would be much appreciated!


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## chase thorn (Sep 14, 2011)

i am so sorry to hear!! sorry i cant help with the solution. i bring my sullys in at night.


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## dmarcus (Sep 14, 2011)

So sorry to hear about your Ornate. Wish I knew how to repeal raccoons


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## chase thorn (Sep 14, 2011)

not sure, but would a security light scare a raccoon away? the ones that detect movement and turn on? just an idea that popped in my head.


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## lynnedit (Sep 14, 2011)

Oh, I am so sorry to hear that you had to go through that!
I am not sure how to keep a determined raccoon out of a yard, except for a big dog. I know that is why some keep their torts locked in small outdoor sheds. Sure sounds like your boxes were a good idea, but raccoons are strong, I guess.
Is there any remaining food in the enclosure, especially things like Mazuri pellets, etc.? That might have lured them there, then they got curious?
What did you decide to do during the night from now on?


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## kimber_lee_314 (Sep 14, 2011)

Right now everyone is in the garage until I come up with a solution. I have too many turtle/tortoises to bring in every night though. Most of them are trained to go in their little houses, so I only have to go around and do a head count each night. I've been using this system for several years, so I was shocked that he was actually able to rip it lose like that. I've been thinking about a bog dog, but then I'd worry about him getting to the torts. I'm thinking I'm just going to have to build new pens with covers over the top.


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## ChiKat (Sep 14, 2011)

I am so sorry for your loss  Thank you for reminding us that these tragedies can happen and we need to take extra precautions! 

Motion detector lights don't deter raccoons- at least not the ones around here! It's just an extra spotlight to them so I can watch them climb on my deck and eat the bird seed...and not move when I open the door and yell at them.


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## Jacqui (Sep 14, 2011)

Once a coon associates your place with food, they can be hard to get to leave. Like was mentioned, make sure no food is left outside for any pets and garbage cans are in lock down mode. Coons can, as you discovered tear into things, find holes in walls/fences, ect.., They are smart, they are strong, they are not easily scared. Those lights will not bother them at all. Dogs can work, but they can also tear up a dog. 

My best advice is live trap them and then have the animal destroyed. Do not release it somewhere to become a problem for somebody else. If you can't kill the animal, then just bring your tortoises in every evening... and do not wait for dusk even. These guys will start coming before dusk to eat.


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## ascott (Sep 14, 2011)

I am so so very sorry for your loss and sorry for your little one;

www.predatorpee.com

You can purchase coyote urine....this is a natural predator of the racoon.....will not harm your torts but should deter the pesky racoon as well as skunks..... 

You can also purchase wolf, bobcat and mountain lion urine for other pests....despite what some may think--that raccoons are cute and all, they are very vicious and carry rabies .....they will stalk as well as attack small children and pets....now, they would much rather avoid us, but if put in a corner (in their mind) they will turn very vicious....


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## Tony the tank (Sep 14, 2011)

You don't need the actual dog.. You need the scent of a dog or any predator to keep most of the raccoons away.... It's tough for anyone to enjoy a meal.. If your worried of becoming a meal yourself[/i]

Feed stores sell coyote urine.. Even saw a place that had Mountain lion urine...Kind of makes you wonder how they collect it


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## ascott (Sep 14, 2011)

the urine is collected at rehab/farms via floor grates...the pee donator simply urinates, it goes through the grate then collects and is then collected and processed....


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## lynnedit (Sep 14, 2011)

If you build the outdoor pen(s) securely enough, it might work. There was a great thread by one of our members of one that looks pretty sturdy (set in the woods, so lots of predators). 
Here it is-
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/Thread-It-s-Complete-Final-Stage#axzz1Xye8Ke8J


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## Jacqui (Sep 14, 2011)

Tony the tank said:


> You don't need the actual dog.. You need the scent of a dog or any predator to keep most of the raccoons away.... It's tough for anyone to enjoy a meal.. If your worried of becoming a meal yourself[/i]



When we had the coon problem (they were going for chickens, not tortoises), I actually saved my own urine and marked the area, I left my hair from brushing, I left hair from the dogs' brush and brought dogs down to let them urinate on the chicken run fencing. The coons did not buy it. 

Heck, I even ended up sleeping out with the chickens, trying to figure out how the coons were getting in and also trying to scare the coons away. They were not at all afraid of me, of the noise I could make, at lights I shown on them, but it did make for a rather funny time and learning experience. Of course, my neighbors I am sure ended up thinking I was even crazier then they thought.

I would like to try the coyote urine next time and see how that works, actually I would rather NOT ever have a next time. 





lynnedit said:


> If you build the outdoor pen(s) securely enough, it might work. There was a great thread by one of our members of one that looks pretty sturdy (set in the woods, so lots of predators).
> Here it is-
> http://www.tortoiseforum.org/Thread-It-s-Complete-Final-Stage#axzz1Xye8Ke8J



 Dee's place! I got to see this one in person and it is indeed a very nice one. She has problems with the deer being able to stick their faces thru the wire enough to eat plants she has along the edge.


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## Squirtle's Mother (Sep 14, 2011)

I'm so sorry to hear about that! It happened to me once too. I'm really sorry for your loss. 


kimber_lee_314 said:


> We all know that raccoons kill turtle/tortoises. I keep mine in little boxes with doors that come down as ramps at night so the raccoon can't get them. Last night I hear the neighbor's dog barking so I went out and saw a raccoon in the yard. I shooed him away but felt confident that everyone was safe. Big mistake! He was able to rip the hinges of the ramp right off the box. He pulled out my sweet little ornate and chewed her up. I found her today and had to have her euthanized.  This is just a beware post for everyone, plus advice on how to keep this raccoon out of my yard would be much appreciated!


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## Laura (Sep 15, 2011)

Jacqui is right... might have to trap him... they will be back. :-( and you cant release elswhere... or shouldnt..

you can also eat a big steak, high protien carnivore dinner.. save your urine or if you are aguy.. go out after dark and mark your territory.. see if that works!


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## jackrat (Sep 15, 2011)

Coon is pretty good,baked with some sweet potatos.


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## Neltharion (Sep 15, 2011)

I trap them. Not only do I have to worry about them getting torts, I also have a koi pond to worry about. I used to lose quite a few fish in the Summer. A trap with a can of wet cat food will draw them in before they go after torts or live fish.

I don't kill them though. I personally don't believe that they should have to die for doing what comes naturally to them, foraging for food. I spray them with mace, then drive them out to the nearby wildlife preserve and release them. When I first started, I was getting a raccoon about once every two weeks. Over time, their visits have become much more infrequent. This past Summer, I've only had one raccoon. They are smart animals. They remember where they got sprayed and don't come back.


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## dmmj (Sep 15, 2011)

why do you spray them with mace?


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## AnthonyC (Sep 15, 2011)

Such a tragic story. I'm sorry for your loss. It must've been traumatizing seeing your tort in that condition.


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## yagyujubei (Sep 15, 2011)

Catch the raccoon and kill it. It will soon bring all it's relatives around. Two years ago, I killed 9 over a couple of weeks. The trap was on my porch.


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## FranklinTturtle (Sep 15, 2011)

I am so sorry for your loss Kimber and thank you for the warning.


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## harris (Sep 15, 2011)

Coyote/Fox urine does not work in my experience. Not even for the deer. 3 big Labradors patrolling the back yard does however!. I personally would set the live trap. Throw a can of tuna in it. It sounds like you have a renegade raccoon.


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## Tony the tank (Sep 15, 2011)

*It all depends on how desensitized the the animal is..The racoon could lose fear of people if they no longer associate danger from them...A raccoon that lives in the city.. Most likely can't associate predator urine with danger.. Since few have ever encountered a predator in the city...

I use to have a family of Racoons that lived in the woods in front of my house..everyday they would feast on the rubbish.. I would go out with a stick and try to scare them they would hiss and act annoyed but not leave... So one day I released the dogs(two very lg rotties).. they grabbed a few and killed two..there were six.. It's been two yrs now and they have never come returned..

If the urine doesn't work..Contact your ACO..and tell them you think you have a sick raccoon(tell him you see him in the daytime and night time acting aggressive) coming around your property and see if they can set a trap..

If they can't help.. Then a couple pieces of meat.. Or peanut butter.. Loaded with rat poison....*


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## Neltharion (Sep 15, 2011)

dmmj said:


> why do you spray them with mace?



Raccoons are very intelligent animals. They remember where they were sprayed at. With the mace being a very unpleasant experience for them, after being sprayed once, they don't come back. 

I figure several hours of discomfort is better than killing them.


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## dmmj (Sep 15, 2011)

Neltharion said:


> dmmj said:
> 
> 
> > why do you spray them with mace?
> ...


Just so you know I wasn't criticizing just curious, I figure it is better for my tortoises for the dead option.


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## Maggie Cummings (Sep 15, 2011)

I am so sorry that happened to your animal. It must have been horrible for you to find your ornate like that. You might try this...

http://www.safepetproducts.com/scarecrow-motion-sprinkler.html?gclid=CIGT36KKoKsCFQhrgwodLzuGZg

If the link doesn't work It's called a Scarecrow, it's a motion sensor sprinkler. From what I have been told they really work. Coons are very smart and will remember being sprayed with water and they should not come back after that. I seriously think it's worth the money to protect your animals...


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## Neltharion (Sep 15, 2011)

dmmj said:


> Neltharion said:
> 
> 
> > dmmj said:
> ...



No, I didn't take your question to be criticism at all. Its all good. 

I found that from when I first got the koi pond five years ago. I went from getting a raccoon every other week. Up until this year, where I've only gotten one. I believe these are newbies straying in my yard and not the same ones coming back. They always go for the catfood in the trap before they go after the koi or torts. 

I don't make any judgments against anyone that choose to kill raccoons for the protection of their tortoises. Our torts are pets that we become attached to, and also investments of our time and money. If I believed that the same ones were coming back, I'd probably kill the raccoons too as a last resort. 

I am a huge animal enthusiast, all kinds. Aside from the torts, we also keep bearded dragons, the koi, two dogs, a moluccan cockatoo, a cat, and a chinchilla. For me personally, I find it a huge ethical dilemma to kill an animal that's following its instincts and hunting/foraging for food. I feel bad about spraying them with mace, but figure they're a lot better off with three to four hours of discomfort as opposed to being killed. I go with what I can live with on my conscience.


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## Baoh (Sep 15, 2011)

I have lots of raccoons in my neighborhood. I like them, little bears that they are, but they would obviously wreck my tortoises. Since I happen to have my dogs, however, this becomes a non-issue for me.


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## Redstrike (Sep 15, 2011)

I'm so sorry to hear about your tortoise! 

You can try the urine and trap & release methods, but racoons are a very smart animals and I will say (from personal experience) they are unbelievable stubborn animals too! They do belong to the Carnivora and it will be difficult to break the raccoon of its habits. I agree with most folks that it isn't fair to kill a raccoon for its foraging habits, but if it threatens significant investments and loved ones (I'm talking your torts here), removal is probably your best bet.

Many are probably upset at my saying this, but if you live in a relatively rural area I'd keep a shotgun nearby and, next visit it makes, welcome it with some spray. There are many raccoons out there. This is, of course, if you feel comfortable doing this. If not but you do want to kill it, you can report it as a nuisance animal to one of your state agencies (not sure where you're at) and they may be able trap it for you.

I'd like to add that I'm a huge animal lover, but when it comes to something like this, I feel elimination is your safest and swiftest option, there are many, many raccoons in the wild (as I mentioned previously).

I'm sorry if my opinion upsets you or anyone else. I just see it as a major threat to your tortoises and the significant time, care, and affection you provide them. As always, take my opinion or leave it. I wish you luck with your problem!


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## Turtle Guru (Sep 15, 2011)

sorry i hate to hear that


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## Momof4 (Sep 15, 2011)

I'm so sorry for your loss! I hope you find a way to keep them out. Thanks for sharing your story.


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## CharlieM (Sep 15, 2011)

At what size, if ever, are unprotected tortoises safe from racoons?


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## SailingMystic (Sep 15, 2011)

I've put food out from my house-- creating a trail away. Seems to have worked. Keep going further into the woods.


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## Yvonne G (Sep 15, 2011)

Hi Diane:

That might work just the opposite of what you want, that is...bringing them into the house by starting out at the end point.


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## Turtulas-Len (Sep 15, 2011)

I haven't had to use it, but I keep a few cans of wasp and hornet spray outside to use on any unwanted stray or wild animal that may venture into the yard and is not seen by one of my dogs (which is very unlikely) unlike mace it is legal everywhere and it doesn't cost much and it will stop just about anything that is sprayed with it.-----I wish it was sold in pocket size cans---- also .22 shorts don't make much noise. Sorry about your Loss


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## Tccarolina (Sep 15, 2011)

??Len?? said:


> I haven't had to use it, but I keep a few cans of wasp and hornet spray outside to use on any unwanted stray or wild animal that may venture into the yard and is not seen by one of my dogs (which is very unlikely) unlike mace it is legal everywhere and it doesn't cost much and it will stop just about anything that is sprayed with it.-----I wish it was sold in pocket size cans---- also .22 shorts don't make much noise. Sorry about your Loss


The active ingredients in wasp and hornet killers are pyrethroids, which are synthetic versions of pyrethrins. Pyrethrin is an extract from chrysanthemums, and is an ideal pesticide for agriculture and many home uses due to its high toxicity to insects, even at low doses, while being very safe to mammals and birds. 
Probably what worked well for you was simply that the raccons were startled by you squirting them with a foamy spray all of a sudden.
On the other hand, the reason pyrethroids are effective on insects, but not mammals or birds is because most modern insecticides are designed to target specific biological processes that only ectotherms possess. Ectotherms are cold blooded animals, like insects. Unfortunately fish and reptiles are also ectotherms. 
Most of the safety data on insecticides refers to mammals, birds, fish, and different classes of insects and spiders. Rarely do they mention reptiles. But they are often quite succeptible to these otherwise safe insecticides.
So, long story short, be careful about where you spray your wasp and hornet killer. If the animal is in your tortoise or turtle pen, don't spray, because the next day your torts will be walking back and forth through it!

Steve


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## Baoh (Sep 16, 2011)

supremelysteve said:


> ??Len?? said:
> 
> 
> > I haven't had to use it, but I keep a few cans of wasp and hornet spray outside to use on any unwanted stray or wild animal that may venture into the yard and is not seen by one of my dogs (which is very unlikely) unlike mace it is legal everywhere and it doesn't cost much and it will stop just about anything that is sprayed with it.-----I wish it was sold in pocket size cans---- also .22 shorts don't make much noise. Sorry about your Loss
> ...



What probably worked well for him was simply that it burns like Hellfire in the eyes. Strong irritant to mucous membranes and sometimes skin if the concentration is sufficient.

As for the safety profile, synthetic pyrethroids are relatively safe, but by no means very safe and that includes humans and birds. Pyrethroids target the same sodium channels that you and I possess and not "specific biological processes that only ectotherms possess." We simply are better at enzymatically deactivating them on a relative scale, so they are far less toxic for a given given concentration upon exposure, on a relative scale, to us. That is the source of the aforementioned relative safety, with toxicity of any substance being a matter of dose.


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## Terry Allan Hall (Sep 16, 2011)

Around here, if a 'coon comes into our fenced yard, my wife's cavies and bunnies and my daughter's chickens are in danger (the tortoise enclosures are locked), so if one of the big dogs doesn't beat me to him/her, his/her dismembered self goes into the crockpot, along with potatoes, garlic and onions, courtesy of my 60# recurve and a broadhead-tipped 2117.


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## SailingMystic (Sep 16, 2011)

emysemys said:


> Hi Diane:
> 
> That might work just the opposite of what you want, that is...bringing them into the house by starting out at the end point.



So far it has worked  And I use feeding blocks as well- they are huge and take a while to break down (not cheap either)...and they are far away. So far, so good  Feeding blocks come in all types of flavors...and my neighbor pitched in for the good food- so the distraction for them to relocate to another huge tree has helped us out a lot. We didn't want to hurt them....


I feel really bad about this poor little turtle - so sad to come out and find it in that condition....


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## Tccarolina (Sep 19, 2011)

Baoh said:


> supremelysteve said:
> 
> 
> > ??Len?? said:
> ...


I stand corrected!


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## Redstrike (Sep 19, 2011)

SailingMystic said:


> emysemys said:
> 
> 
> > Hi Diane:
> ...




SailingMystic,
I'm glad that the feed worked for you, but I really think you're asking for a huge issue in the long-term here. You're introducing easy meals for raccoons...sure you may have 1-2 now, but keeping food out in the woods is likely going to attract more raccoons, coyotes, skunks, etc to your region. These are all potential predators to your tortoises. I would highly recommend discontinuing this project, you're giving them a reason to hang around. The moment you take that food away, there's a good chance they'll be wandering through your yard looking for more. The longer you leave it there, the more animals you're going to be pulling into that region.

My advice, take it or leave it.


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## kimber_lee_314 (Sep 19, 2011)

Thank you for all the advice. I live in a very urban area and have had trouble with raccoons for years. I'm VERY careful about locking everyone up at night. I had a new neighbor move in with two large dogs, and all signs of the coons had disappeared so I thought he (I should say "they" because I've seen three of them trying to get to my rabbits.) I guess I got complacent. I was just shocked that he was able to pull the little door off like that. The hinges were seriously bent. I don't want to hurt any animal, but I"m thinking of an electric fence all around the perimeter. Anyone every use one?


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## lynnedit (Sep 20, 2011)

Here is one good thread for you, scroll down (electric fencing around the enclosure only)
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/Thread-Need-secure-enclosure-ideas#axzz1YV9ZAk3E.
I think the electric fence around the top of your yard or enclosure can help, there is still the concern about them digging under. They can't smell torts, but they can remember that they were there (sadly), and also smell any leftover food. I occasionally give my torts Mazuri, but never in their outside enclosure as I am concerned about even one stray crumb. Greens, not so much, but I do try to keep the feeding area relatively clean.
The electric fence could help, but might not be enough by itself, depending on how determined your predators (racoons) are.


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## yagyujubei (Sep 20, 2011)

An electric fence is a good idea, and will keep any predators out. Make sure you get a powerful one. I think they call 'em grass cutters. If you get foliage touching it, it will still shock, as well as kill the offending blades.I have used them for many years. I wouldn't get the solar one though.Check TSC if there's one in your area.


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## Angi (Sep 20, 2011)

I am so sorry. I have a chain link coverd dog run over my boxie garden. I got it used so it was cheap and I don't think anything but a bear could get in. Thankfully we don't have bears.


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