# X-Ray of Leopard Tortoise-- Input Requested Please!



## spikethebest

Notice anything?

reason i went to the Vet, her right rear leg isnt functioning that well. She drags it, or keeps it tucked in. Any ideas?


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## ChiKat

No idea what I'm looking at  
I suck with x-rays. My brother recently sent me an x-ray of his fractured wrist and I could not figure out where the fracture was...when he pointed it out it was pretty obvious


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## sammi

I see a white smudge looking thing in the middle, towards the bottom-ish?


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## terracolson




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## ChiKat

Oo oo I saw that too! Is that what we're looking for?


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## jblayza

Looks like some sort of impaction. Then again this is the first tortoise x ray i have ever seen, lol......In my whole life.


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## spikethebest

terracolson said:


>



what does this look like to you? do you have experience with x-rays?


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## Yvonne G

It looks to me like some little pebbles or small pieces of substrate causing an impaction.


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## jblayza

Do you have sand mixed in your substrate?


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## spikethebest

jblayza said:


> Do you have sand mixed in your substrate?



no. but she does go outside and roam around to eat grasses and weeds, and could eat dirt. could that cause a leg issue?


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## terracolson

looks more gastrointestonal, per my girl thats a vet tech, and her doctor said looks like Rocks.. she happens to be at work

i emailed her the pic, she lives down there by you, if you want me to pass a long her info


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## spikethebest

terracolson said:


> looks more gastrointestonal, per my girl thats a vet tech, and her doctor said looks like Rocks.. she happens to be at work
> 
> i emailed her the pic, she lives down there by you, if you want me to pass a long her info



Yes please. Do whatever you can. You sure its just not food? Eaten food that hasnt been pooped out yet?

[email protected], 661-312-6311


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## terracolson

She is very very busy and cant call now, but said you can go online and speak to a vet

http://www.lbah.com/whats_your_diagnosis.html

It seems there is a service you can pay for and connect directly with a vet.. i looked into it.. i would only trust to try it since she forwarded it to me and her doctor uses that site...

http://www.justanswer.com/ is the direct link


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## -EJ

The food or what ever in the gut... should not be a problem... the shadow... first response... some kind of parasite. I would have never noticed it had you not pointed it out.

Some kind of Hookworm?

Don't you have a vet looking at this?

On second look... that mass looks like some kind of egg mass... too small to be folicles.


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## spikethebest

-EJ said:


> The food or what ever in the gut... should not be a problem... the shadow... first response... some kind of parasite. I would have never noticed it had you not pointed it out.
> 
> Some kind of Hookworm?
> 
> Don't you have a vet looking at this?



I did, but the vet at the hospital listed on the x-ray doesnt know.



terracolson said:


> She is very very busy and cant call now, but said you can go online and speak to a vet
> 
> http://www.lbah.com/whats_your_diagnosis.html



i went here, and i submitted my question, but i have to wait for a response, which i have to pay for, so i deposited $9 from my paypal account.



-EJ said:


> On second look... that mass looks like some kind of egg mass... too small to be folicles.




its a 2 year old leopard, not to young to be eggs?


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## terracolson

not a egg xray.. eggs look like eggs... i will show you a egg x-ray

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1046/1424351946_b1e0fce6fc.jpg
look there

i just noticed ask a vet online advertises on here


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## -EJ

Noticed I mentioned the shadow looked like a parasite.

Now... that mass looks biological in nature... think of a salamander egg mass... only smaller. Now... consider that most worm like parasites deposit eggs... that was my line of thought.

I think I have an idea of what a tortoise egg xray looks like.



terracolson said:


> not a egg xray.. eggs look like eggs... i will show you a egg x-ray
> 
> http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1046/1424351946_b1e0fce6fc.jpg
> look there
> 
> i just noticed ask a vet online advertises on here


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## terracolson

Ok cool.. i wasn't for sure and pictures help me..didn't mean to offend you


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## dmmj

I thought leg problems were usually caused by bacteria and such.


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## stells

Stones will also cause leg issues.... one of mine that passed a stone had the same leg issue when she was carrying it... dragging one leg....


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## egyptiandan

X-rays pick up calcium in the body and solid objects, so not good at all for soft tissue viewing (so worms or worm eggs wouldn't show up). Looks like either an intestinal impaction or calcium oxalate bladder sand.

The leg she's not using Cory, is it on that side? What does the knee joint look like on that leg?

Danny


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## terracolson

The vet i had look at the xray said its past the bladder section... almost in the pelvic area


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## Fokkerdon

Cory, 
As with private mail to you and response posted on CTTC, you need to get that tortoise to a knowledgeable, qualified tortoise vet ASAP. ( I sent you a link to the vets for herps group and every single one of those vets on there is capable of properly working with your tortoise, which apparently this Studiio City Animal is not!). 
We did some manipulations of the x-ray and are not really sure that the granulated looking mass is out of place for the bladder or not, but the general consensus was that it was more than likely sand/rocks impaction with major gas buildup behind it. 
However, the dragging of right rear leg has been a very common indicator of stone issues in arid land tortoises and it could be that the x-ray is angled and that is formation of multiple small stones/pieces larger ones? just not sure and either way, time may be important here for your tortoises health. 
Please go to the link I sent you, join for immediate acceptance and check the Files>United States>California>City and get to a good vet. 
Good luck 
Don Williams, (Moderator: CTTC Turtle and Tortoise list ; Gopherus;
Vets_for_herps; TortoiseNutrition)
*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*
May You Walk in Beauty
Don :~)> and his desert torts in Bakersfield, CA.
http://tortoise-aid.org/
www.Donsdeserttortoises.com
www.KernCTTC.org


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## Yvonne G

Hey Don (Fokkerdon):







to the forum!!

Good to see you posting here and we're darned lucky to have you as a forum member!!


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## Shelly

I think I see an image of the Virgin of Guadalupe.


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## Yvonne G

We can always count on you, John!


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## Shelly

Fokkerdon said:


> ( I sent you a link to the vets for herps group and every single one of those vets on there is capable of properly working with your tortoise, which apparently this Studiio City Animal is not!)



I went to Studio City Animal Hospital with a sick Tort in 2000 AFTER I was referred by somebody in the CTTC.


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## Stephanie Logan

Good luck, Cory. 

I hope your girl comes home safe and healthy soon.

Please keep us informed.


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## Fokkerdon

Did you have a good experience? Who was the vet? I know they are on the CTTC list found at www.tortoise.org but to the best of my knowledge at this time there is not one vet there that has undergone any specific training on turtle and tortoise health issues and treatments, so perhaps a qualified vet has moved on??. If anyone does know of one who works there who has undergone the specialized reptile training, provide me with the info and will check them out for possible inclusion on vets for herps. 
CTTC vet list is bound by legalities to list any and all vets who want to be listed and is not always the best source, which was part of the reason for the formation of Vets for herps.


Shelly said:


> Fokkerdon said:
> 
> 
> 
> ( I sent you a link to the vets for herps group and every single one of those vets on there is capable of properly working with your tortoise, which apparently this Studiio City Animal is not!)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I went to Studio City Animal Hospital with a sick Tort in 2000 AFTER I was referred by somebody in the CTTC.
Click to expand...


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## Shelly

Although he was not listed as the vet in the forum recommendation, I was referred to a Vet there named Stein, or Stern, something like that. I was told he had had several articles published in the Veterinarian journals regarding the treatment of Tortoises.
I brought to him an old wild caught female DT I had just adopted from the CTTC. I was told when I adopted it that it was in "Perfect health" and had been previously been checked out by a vet. It was at that time hibernating, so I didn't get a real idea of its condition till it woke up weeks later.
It was badly ematiated and dehydrated and had limited use of its front legs. In addition, one eye was swollen shut.
I think the orthopedic issues were related to an old injury that could be seen in an old, severe shell crack. He showed me how to force feed it, but couldn't offer help with the eye. He gave me some drops to put in it, but it didn't help any.
2 years later, when its condition worsened, I brought it back to be euthanized, which for some reason, required me to spend nearly 2 hours sitting in the waiting room.
So basically I spent about $250 for nothing, which is more or less typical of virtually every experience I have ever had with a Vet. It also seems to be typical of just about every Vet experience I read about in these forums.
In my experience, Veterinarians are, for the most part, worthless.


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## ChiKat

Shelly said:


> In my experience, Veterinarians are, for the most part, worthless.



Wow, that's an interesting point of view.


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## tortoisenerd

Wow I'm sorry you've had such bad experiences Shelly. I have to say I have had the exact opposite. My vet has been as awesome as a lifeline for tort care as this forum. Expensive, yes, but at the same time helpful and knowledgeable. I hope you can find a good vet who can regain your trust. I do agree there are good and bad vets, as there are for every profession. Better to find the good ones before you really need them. Best wishes.


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## Fokkerdon

I'm sorry your experience was bad. I have had both good and bad, which is why I stress the ones I know who really care and stay updated on what they are doing. 


Shelly said:


> Although he was not listed as the vet in the forum recommendation, I was referred to a Vet there named Stein, or Stern, something like that. I was told he had had several articles published in the Veterinarian journals regarding the treatment of Tortoises.
> I brought to him an old wild caught female DT I had just adopted from the CTTC. I was told when I adopted it that it was in "Perfect health" and had been previously been checked out by a vet. It was at that time hibernating, so I didn't get a real idea of its condition till it woke up weeks later.
> It was badly ematiated and dehydrated and had limited use of its front legs. In addition, one eye was swollen shut.
> I think the orthopedic issues were related to an old injury that could be seen in an old, severe shell crack. He showed me how to force feed it, but couldn't offer help with the eye. He gave me some drops to put in it, but it didn't help any.
> 2 years later, when its condition worsened, I brought it back to be euthanized, which for some reason, required me to spend nearly 2 hours sitting in the waiting room.
> So basically I spent about $250 for nothing, which is more or less typical of virtually every experience I have ever had with a Vet. It also seems to be typical of just about every Vet experience I read about in these forums.
> In my experience, Veterinarians are, for the most part, worthless.


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## terracolson

So do we have a verdict yet?


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## Livingstone

I will agree somewhat, when livingstone had a few bubbles coming from his nose it was off to the vet. Where she directed me to inject my lil guy (1.5" SCL) with the antibiotics. I had to inject the tort every other day, not fun for a tiny creature and its owner, it was a total of 16 injections. The injections were sub-cuteaneous, between the skin and muscle, If I injected too deep and it got into his blood stream it would kill the animal. When that didnt work she advised me to use drops into the nose, I can remeber being soooo heated at her because the drops worked and were way less invasive and traumatizing than the injections. 
To boot, she told me that my sulcata did not need humidity and that moistening the substrate was a bad idea. So yah unless its life threatening I stay away from vets.


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## spikethebest

egyptiandan said:


> X-rays pick up calcium in the body and solid objects, so not good at all for soft tissue viewing (so worms or worm eggs wouldn't show up). Looks like either an intestinal impaction or calcium oxalate bladder sand.
> 
> The leg she's not using Cory, is it on that side? What does the knee joint look like on that leg?
> 
> Danny




Yes its on that side. The knee joint looks just fine. just like the other knee. I am able to see her entire leg, no torns, splinters, cuts, insects, nothing.

update--

took her to another Vet. One of the CTTC Vet list, they are located in West Hills, California. 

First off, they dont have internet, so they couldnt look at the digital copy of the x-ray. So they just looked at a color and black white copy of the x-ray I had. So said they couldnt tell what it was. They wanted to take 2 x-rays and hope it would look a lot better.

They also has NO idea why the leg keeps on getting dragged, and tucked in. The doctors office was very cold, and the small private room was even colder. The Vet also handled my tortoise very improperly, and so my tort was very scared. So the Vet was unable to get the leg out for an inspection.

I told her to put her under a heat lamp, and just let her relax. The Vet said she couldnt do that, and spend that much time waiting. So the Vet just wanted to give her drugs to put her asleep and pull the leg out. I didnt like that idea at all. When my tort is at home, and you handle her properly with care and love, she will pop out and extend her legs out fully. 

The Vet gave her a pain injection in her body. I dont know why the Vet did that, but she said it would help. Well it didnt appear to do anything. 

So I left the Vet, spent another $90 (atop of the first $175 from the first Vet), with no more information or anything.

So I still dont know what to do. Also since my tort has been stressed out, she isnt eating.

I am soaking her, but she doesnt drink. 

Thats the update for the weekend.


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## Fokkerdon

Hi Cory, 
Did you get to vet yet? Since leg shows no injury and looks fine on x-ray, I went ahead and called and talked to vet Mike Christianson, DVM in Riverside and he said from the x-ray it doesn't really look like is in the bowel, more like small bladderstones and they do cause physical restrictions/blockages at times. Still looking for my file on x-ray from three years ago of small bladderstone calculi in desert tortoise, but files a mess after computer infection/meltdown, sorry. 
Don 


spikethebest said:


> egyptiandan said:
> 
> 
> 
> X-rays pick up calcium in the body and solid objects, so not good at all for soft tissue viewing (so worms or worm eggs wouldn't show up). Looks like either an intestinal impaction or calcium oxalate bladder sand.
> 
> The leg she's not using Cory, is it on that side? What does the knee joint look like on that leg?
> 
> Danny
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes its on that side. The knee joint looks just fine. just like the other knee. I am able to see her entire leg, no torns, splinters, cuts, insects, nothing.
> 
> update--
> 
> took her to another Vet. One of the CTTC Vet list, they are located in West Hills, California.
> 
> First off, they dont have internet, so they couldnt look at the digital copy of the x-ray. So they just looked at a color and black white copy of the x-ray I had. So said they couldnt tell what it was. They wanted to take 2 x-rays and hope it would look a lot better.
> 
> They also has NO idea why the leg keeps on getting dragged, and tucked in. The doctors office was very cold, and the small private room was even colder. The Vet also handled my tortoise very improperly, and so my tort was very scared. So the Vet was unable to get the leg out for an inspection.
> 
> I told her to put her under a heat lamp, and just let her relax. The Vet said she couldnt do that, and spend that much time waiting. So the Vet just wanted to give her drugs to put her asleep and pull the leg out. I didnt like that idea at all. When my tort is at home, and you handle her properly with care and love, she will pop out and extend her legs out fully.
> 
> The Vet gave her a pain injection in her body. I dont know why the Vet did that, but she said it would help. Well it didnt appear to do anything.
> 
> So I left the Vet, spent another $90 (atop of the first $175 from the first Vet), with no more information or anything.
> 
> So I still dont know what to do. Also since my tort has been stressed out, she isnt eating.
> 
> I am soaking her, but she doesnt drink.
> 
> Thats the update for the weekend.
Click to expand...


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## spikethebest

Fokkerdon said:


> Hi Cory,
> Did you get to vet yet? Since leg shows no injury and looks fine on x-ray, I went ahead and called and talked to vet Mike Christianson, DVM in Riverside and he said from the x-ray it doesn't really look like is in the bowel, more like small bladderstones and they do cause physical restrictions/blockages at times. Still looking for my file on x-ray from three years ago of small bladderstone calculi in desert tortoise, but files a mess after computer infection/meltdown, sorry.
> Don



Yes i did go the vet. Please scroll up to read about my experience. 

So if they are bladderstones, what exactly should i do? Medicine? Surgery? What?

Thank you,
Cory


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## terracolson

horrible..


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## Stephanie Logan

Oh Cory, I'm so sorry your poor girl had to go through all that. 

They "don't have internet"? I didn't know that was possible anymore.

I hope she gets better soon...


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## terracolson

MY girlfriend told me to tell you that the following vet is really good

http://www.lbah.com/doctors.htm
Michelle Baccaro, D.V.M.


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## Fokkerdon

Cory, 
For now, just check the temps as we spoke of on phone, if more than 85F in the bottom of that habitat, I would personally remove that heat pad. Don't want to keep cooking the lil one from below, not natural. 
I would also get some substrate in there, perhaps some Leopard keepers will chime in here with recommendations? as I just use dirt for desert torts, no heat pads, UVB/Heat from above, never above 88f with burrows for then to self thermo regulate their internal temps. 

keep hydrated and hopefully you can get to see Dr. Greek tomorrow. 
(I am calling that vet office you went to now to see what is up, if the good tortoise vet is gone, we on vets for herps will evaluate and possibly remove from the list as that does not sound like proper care at all!!)
That small a tort, generally they do not do surgery, is very invasive, requires special anethesia, "breathing" during and after surgery, etc etc.. 
The stones will not dissolve, sometimes they pass. 
When this small a tort has bladder stone calculi, most generally we find is from bouts of dehydration, so keep the tort hydrated and soak daily for 10-15 minutes in warm (@ 80F) water. 
http://www.chelonia.org/articles/Mistypardaliscare.htm and read through everything Misty has written there on the Leopards. She does rescue in their native lands. 
Don



spikethebest said:


> Fokkerdon said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hi Cory,
> Did you get to vet yet? Since leg shows no injury and looks fine on x-ray, I went ahead and called and talked to vet Mike Christianson, DVM in Riverside and he said from the x-ray it doesn't really look like is in the bowel, more like small bladderstones and they do cause physical restrictions/blockages at times. Still looking for my file on x-ray from three years ago of small bladderstone calculi in desert tortoise, but files a mess after computer infection/meltdown, sorry.
> Don
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes i did go the vet. Please scroll up to read about my experience.
> 
> So if they are bladderstones, what exactly should i do? Medicine? Surgery? What?
> 
> Thank you,
> Cory
Click to expand...



Cory, 
U went yesterday? 
Did you see Dr. Amy Worrell? 
Don
update--

took her to another Vet. One of the CTTC Vet list, they are located in West Hills, California. 

First off, they dont have internet, so they couldnt look at the digital copy of the x-ray. So they just looked at a color and black white copy of the x-ray I had. So said they couldnt tell what it was. They wanted to take 2 x-rays and hope it would look a lot better.

They also has NO idea why the leg keeps on getting dragged, and tucked in. The doctors office was very cold, and the small private room was even colder. The Vet also handled my tortoise very improperly, and so my tort was very scared. So the Vet was unable to get the leg out for an inspection.

I told her to put her under a heat lamp, and just let her relax. The Vet said she couldnt do that, and spend that much time waiting. So the Vet just wanted to give her drugs to put her asleep and pull the leg out. I didnt like that idea at all. When my tort is at home, and you handle her properly with care and love, she will pop out and extend her legs out fully. 

The Vet gave her a pain injection in her body. I dont know why the Vet did that, but she said it would help. Well it didnt appear to do anything. 

So I left the Vet, spent another $90 (atop of the first $175 from the first Vet), with no more information or anything.

So I still dont know what to do. Also since my tort has been stressed out, she isnt eating.

I am soaking her, but she doesnt drink. 

Thats the update for the weekend.
[/quote]

Bill Ridgeway , if still there, is very good also. 
Thanks for the input on Baccaro, will list her and if you can provide any speciliaties/specifics, will list them too. 
Don 


terracolson said:


> MY girlfriend told me to tell you that the following vet is really good
> 
> http://www.lbah.com/doctors.htm
> Michelle Baccaro, D.V.M.


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## spikethebest

> Cory,
> U went yesterday?
> Did you see Dr. Amy Worrell?
> Don



it was not her. she doesnt work weekends. saw someone else. cant figure out who. here is the site to the clinic, and the person i saw, isnt listed anywhere on the site. i honestly feel ripped off.

http://yourpets.com/index.html


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## Yvonne G

What??? They have a website but they can't access the internet? You got ripped off! for sure.


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## spikethebest

emysemys said:


> What??? They have a website but they can't access the internet? You got ripped off! for sure.



my thoughts exactly.

also, i looked at the invoice to see who treated my tortoise, and it says "all the services were performed by a relief doctor"

what does that mean????


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## terracolson

I think that means you call back to the hospital, talk to the manager and comlplain... request a free revisit.

I will be glad to call over there and ask what a relief doc means..


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## Maggie Cummings

I hate hearing a story like this one. I have a very good vet here, she has treated many of my tortoises, but then she had me give a treatment to my Big Bubba that made me kill him. Then after he was dead she couldn't look me in the face, and never even said she was sorry. My best friend dead at only 16. So the point of telling this is even good Vets make bad decisions at times.
I still can't go into that office. But that doesn't stop them from wanting the bill paid...


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## tortoisenerd

I'm guessing this vet was subbing for their regular vet? I agree that you should request another visit with the usual vet there, ASAP. Best of luck.


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## Fokkerdon

Cory, 
Amy not there on weekends, u are right. I would call there first thing in morning, tell her what happened and ask for refund as the treatment was not appropriate for these circumstances. 
If you can get tort to Dr. Greek, as per our phone conversation, I would do so. 
Amy Worrell is reputed to be good, but if she has people filling in on weekends that don't know what they are doing, my opinion wrong. 
ALL: Most of us have some idea on proper handling of our tortoises, even if we are not able to diagnose issues sometimes. If you run into a vet or whatever that starts to handle tort wrong, like forcing or flipping tort upside down, etc. speak up and if necessary run to another vet. 
Before any vet touches one of my torts, they get grilled as to what specialized training they have had, which species they have worked on, etc. 
IF you have bad experience, share with others as word of mouth helps us all. 
Thanks for sharing that about Bubba Maggie, and you are right, even a good vet can make a mistake. 
Don in Bakersfield (trying to figure out how to have a signature <G>).


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## spikethebest

Fokkerdon said:


> Cory,
> Amy not there on weekends, u are right. I would call there first thing in morning, tell her what happened and ask for refund as the treatment was not appropriate for these circumstances.
> Don in Bakersfield (trying to figure out how to have a signature <G>).



I am pretty good at returning things, and askng for refunds on stuff, but i have ZERO experience with Vets and asking for refunds from a vet. How should I go about doing this? Don, do you know Amy personally?

To make a signature, click on USER CP on the top when you are logged in, then on the left side look for "change signature". Hope that helps.


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## terracolson

Cory, walk in and do it in person! its very hard to say no in person, infact she might just check him out on the spot.....


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## spikethebest

i put a call in this morning. of course the head doctor AND office manager werent available and they said they would call me back. we will see.

Side note--- nicest thing ever... Dr Tom Greek emailed me out of the blue with some information and thoughtful notes. He is so nice. Wish I went there first and only. Its just a lot farther from my house and with horrible traffic.


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## vellutip

Cory,

As a veterinarian (dog and cat primarily), I am very sorry to hear about your unfortunate experiences with the profession recently. It sounds like there was a deficit in both medicine and compassion. I hope the clinic is able to address your concerns appropriately. The challenge of veterinary medicine is being responsible for extensive knowledge of so many different species. Most veterinary schools don't provide training in exotic animal medicine; interested students must seek out their own training. However, any graduate can offer services. I whole-heartedly agree with the advice that finding a vet experienced with your species is of utmost importance. Veterinarians should not provide service if not fully competent with that species. Even then, exotic animal medicine is very frustrating because we don't extensive research regarding disease, medications, etc. and rely on assumptions from other species and the experience of other practitioners.

Sincerely hope you've found a diagnosis for your tort and that things improve soon. 

Peter


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## spikethebest

vellutip said:


> Cory,
> 
> As a veterinarian (dog and cat primarily), I am very sorry to hear about your unfortunate experiences with the profession recently. It sounds like their was a deficit in both medicine and compassion. I hope the clinic is able to address your concerns appropriately. The challenge of veterinary medicine is being responsible for extensive knowledge of so many different species. Most veterinary schools don't provide training in exotic animal medicine; interested students must seek out their own training. However, any graduate can offer services. I whole-heartedly agree with the advice that finding a vet experienced with your species is of utmost importance. Veterinarians should not provide service if not fully competent with that species. Even then, exotic animal medicine is very frustrating because we don't extensive research regarding disease, medications, etc. and rely on assumptions from other species and the experience of other practitioners.
> 
> Sincerely hope you've found a diagnosis for your tort and that things improve soon.
> 
> Peter




Hi Peter,

Thank you for taking the time to read the thread, and respond, especially since you are new to this forum. 

Update-- The clinic has refused to answer my emails. I still do NOT have a proper diagonsis. 

Thank you everyone for your support, information, theories, informed guesses, and thoughts throughout this whole process. 

Thank you!


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## Shelly

spikethebest said:


> The clinic has refused to answer my emails.



That's because they don't do the interweb, remember?


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## spikethebest

Shelly said:


> spikethebest said:
> 
> 
> 
> The clinic has refused to answer my emails.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's because they don't do the interweb, remember?
Click to expand...


when i called them, and asked about that, they said an outside company designed the website, and they check their email at home.


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## mr.tortoise

In his left leg it looks broken if you look hard. But dont take my word for it. I hope he or shes ok by the way.


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## spikethebest

mr.tortoise said:


> In his left leg it looks broken if you look hard. But dont take my word for it. I hope he or shes ok by the way.




can you please download the picture, and use paint, and draw specifically where you are talking about? i would greatly appreciate it. 

thank you!


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## Shelly

spikethebest said:


>


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## terracolson

i see that


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## Candy

Isn't that her left leg? Cory said that it was the right leg that wasn't moving that well.


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## terracolson

he did place a question mark there.. and i do see something as well.. but it could be a shadow...right?


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## spikethebest

it is the tortoise's right leg that is having the problems. and that is the right leg of the x-ray. i will submit that for further review to a few experts. thank you for that!!!


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## Shelly

If it is broken, I seriously doubt that there is anything a Vet could do to treat it. It would likely heal fine on its own, if you kept the animal confined in as small an enclosure as possible for several weeks. Probably would be counter productive having a Vet poking and pulling at it, when it may actually have already started to heal.


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## Fokkerdon

spikethebest said:


> Don, do you know Amy personally?
> 
> No Cory, all references on the list of vets for herps are provided by fellow turt and tort keepers, some with speciality info provided.
> Some of our files are old (I have only been moderating on the list for a few years) and I am still trying to find time to call and do any updates needed, as well as speciality additions.
> apologies for delays, have had a major issue with a drowned baby desert tortoise that has occupied my limited time available on Mondays and Tuesdays.
> Good news is it came around after tortoise CPR and should be fine after short tx. with proper antibiotic against pneumonia just to be safe.
> Don


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## Shelly

I'm a bit confused as to the situation regarding the initial X Ray. Studio City AH took the X Ray, then just handed it to you without any kind of diagnosis?


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## spikethebest

Shelly said:


> I'm a bit confused as to the situation regarding the initial X Ray. Studio City AH took the X Ray, then just handed it to you without any kind of diagnosis?



You are 100% correct. They said there was some kind of white smudge on the x-ray, but it doesnt look like anything. When I saw the charge of $150 for the x-ray, I wanted a copy of it. They dont have a printer, so they burned it on a CD for me. That Vet did Rx me anti-imflammatory meds. But didnt give me a reason for the leg tucking in, or any possible solutions.


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## Shelly

Any change in this animals condition?


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## spikethebest

As of yesterday, this leopard is walking nearly perfect. Eating great. Pooping better than ever. I havent had a follow-up x-ray taken, but the lameness in the back leg is nearly completely gone.

thanks for asking.


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## Annieski

I'm a retired x-ray tech[humans only] repitle anatomy can be very confusing. The bones in the left leg [which were painted with an arrow] do not appear to be broken--at best it is a shadow of some overlying tissue perhaps of the leg. The density[the whitish one in the center] is possibly a calcification or impaction of some kind --but because it is not SOLID white [it appears to be many whitish pieces] I think that is a good thing. It means it will be easier to move along as things get going.Bladder stones are made of consentrated uric acid and some calcium[that is why you can see it on the x-ray, it will have the same density as bone, which easily shows on the film. More hydration, perhaps wetting food along with increased soaking will help. There is a lot of poo in there to but curiosly nothing showing down by the cloaca. The only other way to know for sure, is check all poop and if urates are passed, push them down with a plastic spoon to see how gritty they are. A repeat X-ray two weeks from the first film will tell if the density has gotten smaller or started to move along. Sorry this post was so long.


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## spikethebest

please dont apologize. that was a very good and thorough post. thank you so much for that. I really appreciate it. maybe we should get a repeat x-ray. the leopard poops a lot, and appears very healthy, that is why we havent so far. thank you again!


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## Shelly

Nature and time seem to heal more reliably than most vets. Cheaper, too.


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## TortoisesRock!

Towards the back leg on the right, there is that part that looks like a sponge and is blotchy. It's possibly a break or fracture that healed incorrectly, or inflamation?


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## Annieski

TortoisesRock! said:


> Towards the back leg on the right, there is that part that looks like a sponge and is blotchy. It's possibly a break or fracture that healed incorrectly, or inflamation?



I'm not a reptile x-ray expert but I think what you are looking at is the skin tissue of the foot . The density is the same on the other side. Soft tissue on an x-ray will appear more grayish as opposed to moe black/white with bone and air[either in the lungs or intestines] will appear black.


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## cindybasty07

The Leopard tortoise is a large and attractively marked tortoise found throughout the savannas of Africa. In addition to that X-rays can be taken to confirm diagnosis and your vet can then determine the best treatment. Laying can be induced using a combination of injected calcium and oxytocin.


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## Shelly

cindybasty07 said:


> The Leopard tortoise is a large and attractively marked tortoise found throughout the savannas of Africa. In addition to that X-rays can be taken to confirm diagnosis and your vet can then determine the best treatment. Laying can be induced using a combination of injected calcium and oxytocin.



Where did you copy and paste that little gem from?


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## spikethebest

that spammer got that info from here...

http://www.tortoisetrust.org/articles/commondisease.html


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