# PLEASE SOMEONE HELP (tortoise upside down)



## DrSpurred (Nov 16, 2017)

Guys so I was at school and I logged onto my live camera to check on my baby sulcata and I noticed he was flipped over so I called my neighbor and she ran over and flipped him back over and has been sitting with him for the past hour and now he wont stop flipping over. His terrarium is completely blacked out so he cant see out, its winter here also so he hasnt been outside for as long as ive had him but i really just dont know what to do now. He was flipped over for about 10mins from what I can tell from the cameras. I just got off of the phone with all my associates who work at surrounding veterinary clinics and they told me he might have a Vestibular infection which is similar to Vertigo in the way that they become very uncoordinated and don't really know what they are doing, I schedule another appointed with my friend but he doesnt go in until friday and when I get home today from school I have to go straight to work. I really dont know what to do to help him. He is currently in a very large ceramic bowl inside him terrarium away from his basking light but the ambient tempature is 80F. Someone please help me figure out what to do, ive never ran into this situation before.
(sorry for all the typos Im in class and needed to rush this forum post and dont have time to correct)

@Tom


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## Frogg.Queen (Nov 16, 2017)

The situation with your baby sulcata sounds really strange [emoji848]
If it’s an infection like your veterinarian said, I’d suggest keeping him cozied up, since most illnesses in reptiles are due to too cold of temperatures. Keeping him in a uvb basking area of 80-85 degrees would be my suggestion.
Other than that, what’s the humidity of his enclosure? Sulcatas are desert tortoises and need to stay really dry (humidity should be 30% or less) sometimes humidity gives desert tortoises a lot of illnesses, like colds and RI. 
Can you post a photo of your sulcata’s enclosure so I️ can get a better idea of some factors to your sulcatas health?
Also, a tip for when baby tortoises are sick: feed them some carrots! They have vitamins that help fight off sicknesses :^) 
Make sure to soak him daily as well in warm water.


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## JoesMum (Nov 16, 2017)

What is he flipping on? Is it always the same place. Most times this is caused by a tortoise that thinks it’s enclosure is too small or by there being a hazard that needs modifying to prevent the suicide bids


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## Frogg.Queen (Nov 16, 2017)

Also, forgot to mention; try to give the tortoise some space. If you handle him a lot it can stress him out, if you leave him in his enclosure he’ll be able to rest. Sometimes the best treatment for a tortoise is just giving them space. ;;


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## Hugo's Home (Nov 16, 2017)

Frogg.Queen said:


> The situation with your baby sulcata sounds really strange [emoji848]
> If it’s an infection like your veterinarian said, I’d suggest keeping him cozied up, since most illnesses in reptiles are due to too cold of temperatures. Keeping him in a uvb basking area of 80-85 degrees would be my suggestion.
> Other than that, what’s the humidity of his enclosure? Sulcatas are desert tortoises and need to stay really dry (humidity should be 30% or less) sometimes humidity gives desert tortoises a lot of illnesses, like colds and RI.
> Can you post a photo of your sulcata’s enclosure so I️ can get a better idea of some factors to your sulcatas health?
> ...


Wait wait wait.. I thought hot and humid is excellent for sulcatas. Why they do so good in floridia, closed chambers etc to simulate the monsoon patterns when they hatch in the wild. Cold and humid causes RI and colds.. more so for babies than adults.. idk just from what I've read on here..


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## JoesMum (Nov 16, 2017)

Hugo's Home said:


> Wait wait wait.. I thought hot and humid is excellent for sulcatas. Why they do so good in floridia, closed chambers etc to simulate the monsoon patterns when they hatch in the wild. Cold and humid causes RI and colds.. more so for babies than adults.. idk just from what I've read on here..


Sulcatas need 95-100F directly under the basking lamp. No less.

A baby in a viv needs a minimum of 80F for the ambient temperature day and night.

What is the floor area of the enclosure and what is the Straight Carapace Length of your tortoise? Here's how to measure SCL
http://www.tlady.clara.net/measure.htm


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## Hugo's Home (Nov 16, 2017)

JoesMum said:


> Sulcatas need 95-100F directly under the basking lamp. No less.
> 
> A baby in a viv needs a minimum of 80F for the ambient temperature day and night.
> 
> ...


Wait me or Dr spurred? I'm guessing Dr spurred. I'm so confused.. lol


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## JoesMum (Nov 16, 2017)

Hugo's Home said:


> Wait me or Dr spurred? I'm guessing Dr spurred. I'm so confused.. lol


Bad quoting by me. It's Dr Spurred's enclosure and tort that I'm interested in


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## Melis (Nov 16, 2017)

Frogg.Queen said:


> The situation with your baby sulcata sounds really strange [emoji848]
> If it’s an infection like your veterinarian said, I’d suggest keeping him cozied up, since most illnesses in reptiles are due to too cold of temperatures. Keeping him in a uvb basking area of 80-85 degrees would be my suggestion.
> Other than that, what’s the humidity of his enclosure? Sulcatas are desert tortoises and need to stay really dry (humidity should be 30% or less) sometimes humidity gives desert tortoises a lot of illnesses, like colds and RI.
> Can you post a photo of your sulcata’s enclosure so I️ can get a better idea of some factors to your sulcatas health?
> ...


This is not accurate information at all. Please refrain from giving advice to people when you are not a subject matter expert. Lots of novices come to this site to get accurate information, due to so much inaccurate information floating around the web. Please, please, please do not spread information that is false.


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## TechnoCheese (Nov 16, 2017)

Frogg.Queen said:


> The situation with your baby sulcata sounds really strange [emoji848]
> If it’s an infection like your veterinarian said, I’d suggest keeping him cozied up, since most illnesses in reptiles are due to too cold of temperatures. Keeping him in a uvb basking area of 80-85 degrees would be my suggestion.
> Other than that, what’s the humidity of his enclosure? Sulcatas are desert tortoises and need to stay really dry (humidity should be 30% or less) sometimes humidity gives desert tortoises a lot of illnesses, like colds and RI.
> Can you post a photo of your sulcata’s enclosure so I️ can get a better idea of some factors to your sulcatas health?
> ...



The basking temp for a baby sulcata should be 95-100 degrees, and the lowest temp the enclosure can go is 80. Sulcata tortoises are born in African grasslands during monsoon season, and stay in very humid burrows for the first year or so of their life. All tortoises have to have very humid enclosures as hatchlings, and even adults benefit from it, as long as the temps aren't too low.

Please read some of the care guides under a specific tortoise's section. TFO is working hard to correct these misconceptions that the internet has put out. It just seems that you have researched in those areas.


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## Chizbad (Nov 16, 2017)

Frogg.Queen said:


> The situation with your baby sulcata sounds really strange [emoji848]
> If it’s an infection like your veterinarian said, I’d suggest keeping him cozied up, since most illnesses in reptiles are due to too cold of temperatures. Keeping him in a uvb basking area of 80-85 degrees would be my suggestion.
> Other than that, what’s the humidity of his enclosure? Sulcatas are desert tortoises and need to stay really dry (humidity should be 30% or less) sometimes humidity gives desert tortoises a lot of illnesses, like colds and RI.
> Can you post a photo of your sulcata’s enclosure so I️ can get a better idea of some factors to your sulcatas health?
> ...



Everything I’ve read over the last few weeks on these forums is the opposite of what you are saying regarding humidity. Hot and humid grows the best torts... the environment they truly come from is not desert but “edge of desert”, actually Mediterranean/Rain forest like. I’m not saying you are wrong but rather the talking heads in here seem to think the opposite of your beliefs and pretty much all agree on a closed chamber enclosure to keep in humidity


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## DrSpurred (Nov 16, 2017)




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## DrSpurred (Nov 16, 2017)

His humidity is 85 and the temperature is perfect. I removed all the wallpaper, I thought maybe he thought it was real so I replaced it with black non see through wallpaper but he is still trying to get out.


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## DrSpurred (Nov 16, 2017)

I removed all the items and he keeps going all over the Terrarium in each corner and flipping himself, I have a 75gl tank and he's 3inch so it's not a issue of space or maybe it is idk


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## Bambam1989 (Nov 16, 2017)

Is it always in the corners that he is flipping? Could it be that the reflection from his enclosure is being cast against the glass making it look like there is an illusion of more space?(hope that made sense).
If it is always the same corner maybe place a hide there. The photo comes across to me of a frustrated and confused tortoise not a sick one.. I am not an expert just expressing some ideas.


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## JoesMum (Nov 16, 2017)

Bambam1989 said:


> Is it always in the corners that he is flipping? Could it be that the reflection from his enclosure is being cast against the glass making it look like there is an illusion of more space?(hope that made sense).


Or he might be trying to chase away the other tortoise... his reflection. 



> If it is always the same corner maybe place a hide there. The photo comes across to me of a frustrated and confused tortoise not a sick one.. I am not an expert just expressing some ideas.


I too would look at putting something in each corner to deter him. Plants are the obvious thing. Real or fake (as long as they’re green with no white or red)


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## MPRC (Nov 16, 2017)

Could placing something non reflective inside of the glass possibly help?


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## DrSpurred (Nov 16, 2017)

It's not reflective, I lined the outside and inside with black electrical tape so it's impossible to for any reflection to occur, he seems so off now, he won't move and just seems very ill (i know when there is something wrong with my tortoise). I just can't pinpoint what exactly the issue is.


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## GingerLove (Nov 16, 2017)

Oh no! Is he able to flip himself back? If so, how long does it take him? This is very odd, I'm so sorry you have to stress over this! Keeping my fingers crossed for your baby!!! Hopefully some others can keep offering good suggestions...

PS. Does it seem neurological to you??


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## MPRC (Nov 16, 2017)

If you are truly concerned that he is not acting well you may want to see if you can find a reputable reptile vet to see before the weekend.


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## GingerLove (Nov 16, 2017)

Also I think humidity is not the problem in this scenario, so we probably don't need to discuss it. At least everyone is trying to help.


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## Tidgy's Dad (Nov 16, 2017)

I doubt it's an infection. 
I should think it's a matter of space and/ or the reflections in the glass. 
Either trying to escape or attempting to chase away 'the intruder' - the tortoise reflected in the glass.


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## DrSpurred (Nov 16, 2017)

I have a vet but he is booked until next week and there are no surround vets


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## Bambam1989 (Nov 16, 2017)

Did you just put the tape in the enclosure? Just want to clarify.


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## DrSpurred (Nov 16, 2017)

Does not seem neurological


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## Bee62 (Nov 16, 2017)

Hi DrSpurred, please don`t think I am crazy but I would try to give your tort baby something to climb. From my own 4 young sullies I know that they like to climb ( mayby give him an artificial burrow, covered with soil so it make a slight soil buckle.) They like so sit with the head higher than the butt ( please view the picture ) 
It seems to me that your baby tortoise is bored and scared from his enclosure. He will need some plants and hides. In nature the soil is not flat and without any plants. Babies search for hides against predators. It is a natural instinct. Give your baby things to hide and I think it will not flip over again.


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## Bambam1989 (Nov 16, 2017)

Bee62 said:


> Hi DrSpurred, please don`t think I am crazy but I would try to give your tort baby something to climb. From my own 4 young sullies I know that they like to climb ( mayby give him an artificial burrow, covered with soil so it make a slight soil buckle.) They like so sit with the head higher than the butt ( please view the picture )
> It seems to me that your baby tortoise is bored and scared from his enclosure. He will need some plants and hides. In nature the soil is not flat and without any plants. Babies search for hides against predators. It is a natural instinct. Give your baby things to hide and I think it will not flip over again.
> 
> 
> View attachment 223081


This makes alot of sense. My own baby sulcata's favorite place to walk is up and down his ramp and he likes to nap/bask with his front half propped on a rock.


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## Bee62 (Nov 16, 2017)

Bambam1989 said:


> This makes alot of sense. My own baby sulcata's favorite place to walk is up and down his ramp and he likes to nap/bask with his front half propped on a rock.


Thank you. 
It is just my experience with my own young sullies. They never flipped over although they have some things to climb in their enclosure. They learn to climb and to be careful by doing this. 
Think of children ( and they are tort-children ) : Learning by doing.


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## Big Charlie (Nov 16, 2017)

I remember this happening to another tortoise and the solution was to block the corners.


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## Tom (Nov 16, 2017)

Every once in a while a baby comes a long that just wants to flip itself. Most of them stop this within a couple of weeks.

If yours didn't used to do this, and this is something new, they we might need to think about what is causing the behavior.

What are your four temps? Warm side, cool side, basking area and overnight low?

Are you using a UV lamp? What type?

The pics show an empty, barren enclosures. Does he have a hide? Any plants or decorations? Any cover?


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## DrSpurred (Nov 16, 2017)

I appreciate all the help guys! So Tom, my cool side is lower 70's, my warm side is mid mid 80's and the basking side is 100-105F. My UV lamp is the ReptiSun 10.0 bar light, NO MORE COIL LIGHTS! My enclosure was barren because I had to go to work and I removed everything he could possibly tip over with. He has a hide, a humid hide and plants in there and @Bee62 it's funny you should say that because when I readded all of his enclosure before I put on his Night time lamp (Which keeps it low 80's at night @Tom), I moved soil around and added a small mound underneath his basking light and he sat on it with his toosh down and his head at higher elevation, but he seems to be still climbing the edges and trying to escape. I put black paper along the Terrarium so he can't see out and can't see his reflection but yet he is still climbing so I'm guessing I'm saying is I need more help. 
@Tom


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## Tom (Nov 16, 2017)

Cool side should be 80 and basking temp is just a little bit higher than I like, but neither of these are causing the flipping.

I don't know what else you can do but put rocks or flower pots in the corners to keep him out of the corners. And then just wait this out.


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## DrSpurred (Nov 16, 2017)

My tank is very large and he is very tiny that is why I like to keep the cool side a bit cooler. Also the basking is a bit lower I believe because my temperature gauge is suspended 2-3 1/2 inches above ground level but none the less his enclosure i believe is great I'm just so confused as to what the heck he is doing, he seems like he is on a mission when he climbs. He is still climbing even when it's dark in his tank. I hope this isn't a neurological issue... @Tom


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## DrSpurred (Nov 16, 2017)

Is this a issue on my part? 
@Tom


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## teresaf (Nov 17, 2017)

The problem could be that the temperatures are too cold or too hot. We've seen that here before. They're trying to escape the heat if it's too hot or trying to go somewhere warmer if it's too cold. If your cool temperature is low 70s and you're using the dial thermometers then you don't really know what the temperature on that end is. Those things are notoriously inaccurate. I've attached a picture of a digital thermometer I use where you just drop the probe into the enclosure and the mechanism stays outside of the enclosure. The reason why the temperature is so critical on the cooler side of the enclosure is because anything under 80 and your tortoise can get sick in a high humidity environment. He needs 80 not low 70s. And the humidity in his enclosure needs to be 70s or 80s not 30s.

At night you should use a ceramic heat emitter so that the lights are out completely period a ceramic heat emitter is used just like a light bulb except it does not put out light.


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## teresaf (Nov 17, 2017)

Also look at @Bee62 tortoises... See how smooth they look? That is from high humidity and high heat in an enclosed enclosure or what we call closed Chambers. Tortoises that are raised in dry conditions at this early of an age tend to not thrive... The ones that do survive this treatment end up grossly pyramided like my tortoise(attachment) that I rescued in Ohio. A very low humidity area where the previous owner tried to convince me that baths and too much humidity were bad for him....so sad. @Tom raises hundreds of baby tortoises each year. He's used his own tortoises to disprove the old myths on raising babies. High humidity in high heat is the way to go.


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## Bee62 (Nov 17, 2017)

teresaf said:


> Also look at @Bee62 tortoises... See how smooth they look? That is from high humidity and high heat in an enclosed enclosure or what we call closed Chambers. Tortoises that are raised in dry conditions at this early of an age tend to not thrive... The ones that do survive this treatment end up grossly pyramided like my tortoise(attachment) that I rescued in Ohio. A very low humidity area where the previous owner tried to convince me that baths and too much humidity were bad for him....so sad. @Tom raises hundreds of baby tortoises each year. He's used his own tortoises to disprove the old myths on raising babies. High humidity in high heat is the way to go.


Thank you ! 
I am so glad that I have found this forum and the right informations to raise my sullies right ( humid and warm ). In the enclosure of my torts it is 80 F day and night and basking spot 100 - 105 F. Humidity is 75 - 85 % and I often spray my torts with warm water of a flowersprayer.


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## DrSpurred (Nov 17, 2017)

I don't think it's a issue of heat or humidity


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## TechnoCheese (Nov 17, 2017)

DrSpurred said:


> I don't think it's a issue of heat or humidity



Maybe you should try making the entire enclosure at least 80 degrees, and see if any changes occur?


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## DrSpurred (Nov 17, 2017)

Like I said a doubt it's a tempature or humidity issue. I appreciate all the help. I'm think this is more of a neurological issue


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## Big Charlie (Nov 17, 2017)

DrSpurred said:


> Like I said a doubt it's a tempature or humidity issue. I appreciate all the help. I'm think this is more of a neurological issue


I don't there is anything wrong with your tortoise. Some tortoises love to climb, then they fall. You have to figure out why and design the enclosure so they don't have anything they can flip on. It also needs to be big enough and interesting enough that they don't feel trapped. There needs to be places to hide. From what I can see of your enclosure, it looks barren. That water bowl looks like a tipping and drowning hazard.


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## DrSpurred (Nov 17, 2017)

My Terrarium is 75Gl and he is a 3inch Tortoise, and as I said before I removed all the items because I had to go to work and I needed to take everything out so I minimized the risk of him tipping. I know what I'm doing when it comes to enclosures, enrichment, and hides so it's not a issue of that.


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## JoesMum (Nov 18, 2017)

I too doubt it's neurological, but it might be. 

In the photo early on I could clearly see the reflection of your tortoise in the corner. Has this been eliminated now? Have you tried blocking access to the corners with plants, etc?


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## Aunt Caffy (Nov 18, 2017)

I don't know what it is about corners, but I've had to block all of mine, too. My tort doesn't flip very often, but, when it happens, it's almost always in a corner. Blocking the corners would be a good first step. 

As for temperatures...I've got four different digital devices, and all the readings are slightly different. If you already have digital temperature monitoring, you're probably good. 

I've been a member here for a couple of years now, having joined about one month before I got my tortoise. Sometimes members can be blunt, but be rest assured that it comes from a good place. We may not know you, but we care about your tortoise. Just because it is a tortoise, and we love all of them.


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## Maro2Bear (Nov 18, 2017)

JoesMum said:


> I too doubt it's neurological, but it might be.
> 
> In the photo early on I could clearly see the reflection of your tortoise in the corner. Has this been eliminated now? Have you tried blocking access to the corners with plants, etc?





JoesMum said:


> I too doubt it's neurological, but it might be.
> 
> In the photo early on I could clearly see the reflection of your tortoise in the corner. Has this been eliminated now? Have you tried blocking access to the corners with plants, etc?



Greetings. I too noticed the reflection in the corner picture. Is it possible your tort is seeing many torts wherever he looks and feels threatened, needs to find, attack, bully? Perhaps check lights, even lower wattage bulbs just to see.... It's got to be something...


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## DrSpurred (Nov 19, 2017)

All reflections have been removed at the beginning of the issue but he still won't stop climbing


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## JoesMum (Nov 19, 2017)

DrSpurred said:


> All reflections have been removed at the beginning of the issue but he still won't stop climbing


I think the general train of this thread is that you should try to block access to the corners with decor like plants and that maybe more floor area will satisfy him.

None of us seems to think this is neurological, but we may be proved wrong in the longer run. My view is that any animal with a balance problem wouldn't get as far as climbing in the first place.

We aren't medically trained... Well not unless @deadheadvet is about as he might have seen neurolgical problems in tortoises.


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## DrSpurred (Nov 19, 2017)

JoesMum said:


> I think the general train of this thread is that you should try to block access to the corners with decor like plants and that maybe more floor area will satisfy him.
> 
> None of us seems to think this is neurological, but we may be proved wrong in the longer run. My view is that any animal with a balance problem wouldn't get as far as climbing in the first place.
> 
> We aren't medically trained... Well not unless @deadheadvet is about as he might have seen neurolgical problems in tortoises.



All corners have been blocked when I readded all of his Terrarium decor


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## JoesMum (Nov 19, 2017)

DrSpurred said:


> All corners have been blocked when I readded all of his Terrarium decor


In that case, I can only suggest a bigger enclosure


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## DrSpurred (Nov 19, 2017)

DrSpurred said:


> All corners have been blocked when I readded all of his Terrarium decor



I don't believe it is the enclosure but I could be wrong, he is a 2 1/2 inch Sulcata with a 75GL tank


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## DrSpurred (Nov 19, 2017)

It's literally the largest tank I could find without having to take out a mortgage lol


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## JoesMum (Nov 19, 2017)

So you get building... take a look at the enclosures forum. This is a Sulcata, they don't stay small for very long at all. Your baby will hit 100lb all too quickly. They roam huge distances in the wild and we have to keep this in mind for those kept in captivity. People have joined plastic tubs together, Christmas Tree boxes, joined marine ply and bought a sheet of plexglass for the front...


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## Crzt4torts (Nov 19, 2017)

DrSpurred said:


> It's not reflective, I lined the outside and inside with black electrical tape so it's impossible to for any reflection to occur, he seems so off now, he won't move and just seems very ill (i know when there is something wrong with my tortoise). I just can't pinpoint what exactly the issue is.


Looking at your posted photo of your baby, it APPEARS to be reflective...I see the reflection of the little guy on that right side wall.


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## Chizbad (Nov 19, 2017)

DrSpurred said:


> It's literally the largest tank I could find without having to take out a mortgage lol



Send that tank back and keep most of that money...

$70 to build... you’ll spend about that on plastic tubs


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## teresaf (Nov 19, 2017)

DrSpurred said:


> It's literally the largest tank I could find without having to take out a mortgage lol



got lucky and found a 200 gallon with stand on Craigslist....still cost $700 though, so I know what you mean...


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## DrSpurred (Nov 19, 2017)

I'm not in the area to be getting him a new tank, I am transferring down to St Petersburg College in the spring and I plan on giving him most of the backyard.


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## Bambam1989 (Nov 19, 2017)

A 75gallon aquarium can be various dimensions. You need to consider the actual floor space. I've got a 95 gallon aquarium (it's actually used for fish) that uses the same floor space as my mother's 75. 
Visual barriers(Decorations) can help break line of site and give him more areas to explore.


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## Chizbad (Nov 19, 2017)

Good luck on your move... however, keep in mind spring is a long time from now and “most of the backyard” isn’t necessarily what your baby sulcata needs right now


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## Big Charlie (Nov 19, 2017)

DrSpurred said:


> I'm not in the area to be getting him a new tank, I am transferring down to St Petersburg College in the spring and I plan on giving him most of the backyard.


A baby will still need to be kept indoors most of the time.


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## DrSpurred (Nov 19, 2017)

Guys I appreciate all the help and everything I really do but I don't believe the enclosure, tempature, humidity, or enrichment items are the issue to this. I believe all of the questions that were asked are beginning and if not are very rhetorical and I find myself to keep answering the same questions. Like I said I appreciate all the help but if u still wish to put in ur input please read this post from the first comment so u know exactly what's going on because i really wanna get to the bottom of this issue but i keep getting asked the same question by the Same people. Please don't think I am being rude, I just want the best for my Sulcata and me answering the same questions isn't helping, I really appreciate everyone's concern and please don't think i am trying to be rude.


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## Tortski (Nov 19, 2017)

I know I'm not one to talk (still sorry about how difficult I am, people who've helped me before) but I would say that you should try to post pictures of the entire cage (after changes) including one that shows you got rid of the glass. If you do that they might have a better idea of what's going on (yes, I do see the irony, to those who've met me before). 
It might also be your tort's personality, or he is begging for something. My tort climbs his wall whenever he wants more food (he doesn't flip, but he does get close sometimes) and like someone has already said (sorry, I forgot your name) he could just be entertaining himself. My boy used to wedge himself in between his glass and log so he can get to the top of the log, and fall on his face. I think you might just need to put stuff in the corners (if you already did that, I'm sorry, I don't have the best memory)


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## Bambam1989 (Nov 19, 2017)

Is there food available at all times? Don't remember if it was mentioned.


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## Maro2Bear (Nov 19, 2017)

Yes, agree withTortskie, upload a current pix of how things look today with all changes, updates made since your initial postings.


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## Big Charlie (Nov 19, 2017)

DrSpurred said:


> Guys I appreciate all the help and everything I really do but I don't believe the enclosure, tempature, humidity, or enrichment items are the issue to this. I believe all of the questions that were asked are beginning and if not are very rhetorical and I find myself to keep answering the same questions. Like I said I appreciate all the help but if u still wish to put in ur input please read this post from the first comment so u know exactly what's going on because i really wanna get to the bottom of this issue but i keep getting asked the same question by the Same people. Please don't think I am being rude, I just want the best for my Sulcata and me answering the same questions isn't helping, I really appreciate everyone's concern and please don't think i am trying to be rude.


This question has been asked and answered many times on the forum. Your tortoise's behavior isn't unique. I get 6200 results in a search: https://tortoiseforum.org/threadloom/search?query=flipping&tab=698 You could read some of those threads to see how others solved the same problem. Eventually they outgrow it.


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## teresaf (Nov 19, 2017)

Just an fyi....a little tort like that don't need a big backyard. In fact I would cage him in if putting him out. Birds, racoons, possums, stray cats can get in your yard and take off with it. ESPECIALLY birds. There's a reason people don't see baby tortoises out and about. They know to hide down in their burrows....


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## Robrocphilly (Nov 22, 2017)

DrSpurred said:


> Guys so I was at school and I logged onto my live camera to check on my baby sulcata and I noticed he was flipped over so I called my neighbor and she ran over and flipped him back over and has been sitting with him for the past hour and now he wont stop flipping over. His terrarium is completely blacked out so he cant see out, its winter here also so he hasnt been outside for as long as ive had him but i really just dont know what to do now. He was flipped over for about 10mins from what I can tell from the cameras. I just got off of the phone with all my associates who work at surrounding veterinary clinics and they told me he might have a Vestibular infection which is similar to Vertigo in the way that they become very uncoordinated and don't really know what they are doing, I schedule another appointed with my friend but he doesnt go in until friday and when I get home today from school I have to go straight to work. I really dont know what to do to help him. He is currently in a very large ceramic bowl inside him terrarium away from his basking light but the ambient tempature is 80F. Someone please help me figure out what to do, ive never ran into this situation before.
> (sorry for all the typos Im in class and needed to rush this forum post and dont have time to correct)
> 
> @Tom


Possibly vertigo??


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## sbohonos (Nov 22, 2017)

This has been happening with my baby Sulcata lately. He does not do it in corners and there are no reflections since it is a wooden Tortoise House. He does it while trying to climb the little half log shelters that I have. I haven't checked any of the other 6200 search results mentioned, but it just seems like my little guy is just curious and exploring.

I feel bad though that his neck isn't long enough yet to flip himself back over.

I have six other aquatic turtles and the bigger ones can flip them selves back over when they end up flipped over when I let them roam around in the yard on weekends.

One thing I noticed in this thread was somebody mentioning a drowning hazard. Not sure if I should start a new thread, but just curious of this point since I let my Sulcata swim with the other aquatic turtles for 20 mins a day to moisten up his rear end since it gets crusty sometimes. He just floats around like on a tube on an endless river at a water park - seems to enjoy it.

I haven't had any issues with bacteria with any of these guys hanging out with each other btw if anyone was wondering.


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## Melis (Nov 22, 2017)

sbohonos said:


> This has been happening with my baby Sulcata lately. He does not do it in corners and there are no reflections since it is a wooden Tortoise House. He does it while trying to climb the little half log shelters that I have. I haven't checked any of the other 6200 search results mentioned, but it just seems like my little guy is just curious and exploring.
> 
> I feel bad though that his neck isn't long enough yet to flip himself back over.
> 
> ...


Just to clarify, you let your sulcata "float" in a tank with your water turtles? Like as in he can't touch the bottom, and is in the same container as the aquatic turtles at the same time??
I'm hoping I misinterpreted your post...


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## sbohonos (Nov 22, 2017)

Yes, he just floats, he does not sink, so doesn't need to touch the bottom. That is why I am confused about the drowning hazard comment. 

The aquarium for the aquatic turtles is a completely separate setup from the tortoise house. Like I mentioned, he gets this about 20 mins a day while I watch him. And yes, they are in there and curious about the Sulcata, but there have not been any negative interactions.

Do most Sulcatas not float? Is mine unique in that way?


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## Chizbad (Nov 22, 2017)

sbohonos said:


> Yes, he just floats, he does not sink, so doesn't need to touch the bottom. That is why I am confused about the drowning hazard comment.
> 
> The aquarium for the aquatic turtles is a completely separate setup from the tortoise house. Like I mentioned, he gets this about 20 mins a day while I watch him. And yes, they are in there and curious about the Sulcata, but there have not been any negative interactions.
> 
> Do most Sulcatas not float? Is mine unique in that way?



I think you probably just shocked a lot of people


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## sbohonos (Nov 22, 2017)

I imagine maybe, since it seems most aquatic turtle owners have only that type, and most desert turtle owners only have that type. I was initially told he would sink to the bottom at a reptile super show by a Sulcata breeder. Thought I'd try - it was quite the contrary. No sinking and he seems to enjoy it.


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## Big Charlie (Nov 22, 2017)

sbohonos said:


> Yes, he just floats, he does not sink, so doesn't need to touch the bottom. That is why I am confused about the drowning hazard comment.
> 
> The aquarium for the aquatic turtles is a completely separate setup from the tortoise house. Like I mentioned, he gets this about 20 mins a day while I watch him. And yes, they are in there and curious about the Sulcata, but there have not been any negative interactions.
> 
> Do most Sulcatas not float? Is mine unique in that way?


I don't think you should put your sulcata into contact with your aquatic turtles, not because of their interactions but because they could have pathogens that your sulcata has no defense to. It is never a good idea to mix species.

It is good for your sulcata to get soaked in warm water, but usually the water only comes up halfway up his body. There are older sulcatas that soak themselves in ponds that could be deeper. The drowning hazard I mentioned was when there is a deep water bowl in an enclosure - the tortoise could flip into the water bowl and drown because he couldn't flip himself back over.


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## sbohonos (Nov 22, 2017)

Ah k, as far as the drowning, that makes sense, thanks for the update.

As I mentioned, I haven't had any sickness issues with any of my guys/gals, thank goodness, but I keep both habitats quite clean . The aquarium gets weekly water changes and such.

If pathogens are really a serious, high risk, then maybe he won't get swim time anymore with the others. I would like to dig deeper with research and partially why I posted here to see if someone could point to facts regarding this. Maybe I've just been lucky that everyone is healthy.


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## DrSpurred (Nov 22, 2017)

What the.... i have no words....


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## Bambam1989 (Nov 22, 2017)

sbohonos said:


> Ah k, as far as the drowning, that makes sense, thanks for the update.
> 
> As I mentioned, I haven't had any sickness issues with any of my guys/gals, thank goodness, but I keep both habitats quite clean . The aquarium gets weekly water changes and such.
> 
> If pathogens are really a serious, high risk, then maybe he won't get swim time anymore with the others. I would like to dig deeper with research and partially why I posted here to see if someone could point to facts regarding this. Maybe I've just been lucky that everyone is healthy.


I knew that young sulcatas float. But I've also heard that once they get close to 10lbs they start sinking.
I have a couple of concerns about letting a land tort come in contact with water turtles. The first being- what is the water temp in your turtle enclosure? Young Torts should be soaked in warm water(my water is in the 95-98f range). If the tort is in water that is too cool it could get sick.
The second concern is pathogens/diseases being transferred. A water turtle could carry a pathogen and due to a natural resistant never get sick, but a land tort that comes from a different area may not have this resistance and become sick. Even the turtles can become infected by something the tort is carrying.


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## GingerLove (Nov 22, 2017)

Uh... does he *like *to float? My tortoise literally would think she was drowning and panic and pull her head in. Doesn't seem quite natural to see a tortoise floating around some place... Why not just have separate soak times again?


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## teresaf (Nov 23, 2017)

Bambam1989 said:


> I knew that young sulcatas float. But I've also heard that once they get close to 10lbs they start sinking.
> I have a couple of concerns about letting a land tort come in contact with water turtles. The first being- what is the water temp in your turtle enclosure? Young Torts should be soaked in warm water(my water is in the 95-98f range). If the tort is in water that is too cool it could get sick.
> The second concern is pathogens/diseases being transferred. A water turtle could carry a pathogen and due to a natural resistant never get sick, but a land tort that comes from a different area may not have this resistance and become sick. Even the turtles can become infected by something the tort is carrying.


This happens with people too. My family recently moved to Florida from Ohio and three of the four of us were sick(with sniffles)for the first 3 months.


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## sbohonos (Nov 23, 2017)

Thanks for the replies guys and gals!

Bambam1989 - to be blunt, yet not meaning disrespect or intentional offense (honestly)  - yes, I have heard and read they "could carry pathogens". 

I am in Los Angeles and currently there is a Hepatitis A "outbreak" that started in San Diego recently in humans, and has been seen now in cases in LA. Should I stay home and not leave the house because I may come in contact with someone who "could carry pathogens"? Again, just making a point, no offense.

To GingerLove's comment, yes!, he genuinely seems to like it. He just motors around and has no issues with being under the water as a breathing obstruction/hazard. 

So, should I take away his motoring/soak time with friends because of a minor risk? It would be great to know more about the likelihood or some stats on the probability of transmission. What happens in nature? Are there never bodies of water near the edges of deserts?

Bambam1989 - To answer your question, the water in the aquarium is around 89-90 degrees F, so a little cooler than your soaking temp. I put my baby Sulcata right back into his house afterwards though with his heat lamp/UVB/night heat lamps and he seems to just go explore after the dip seemingly amp'd up a little, possibly from being refreshed?


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## teresaf (Nov 23, 2017)

My tortoise poops when he's soaked. I'm pretty sure most people's tortoises poop when they soak. So you're putting your tortoise in with your turtles and letting them poop in the water where they're living. The parasites that tortoises get from tortoises and turtles get from turtles is from their defecation. If you don't see the problem in that I don't know what else to say. Maybe your tortoise will be fine. I'm sure we all hope so. But down the line you just don't know. it takes a while before you find out the results of your actions. They might get sick today but you won't see the symptoms for 6 months. I think a lot of us know that sulcatas can swim. But we all know that sulcatas will drown also.

My mother once mistook a toad for a frog. She threw it in with her fish in the fish tank and it seem to do just fine. the next day she noticed it was dead at the bottom of the tank. Toads can swim.... But just like people in the middle of the ocean they can't swim forever. They die. If you accidentally forget your tortoises in the tank you will find him at the bottom of the tank. In all the time that I've had my tortoises I can count on one hand how many times i have accidently left them overnight in their water. I walked away from the tortoise and started doing other things and totally forgot. Luckily I keep the water in a warm area so they didn't get too cold but I'm sure they were unhappy about keeping their head above water for that long.... If there's ANY chance that that could happen to you I would stop this completely. You said you leave him in there for 20 minutes? that means you walk away.

I just don't want you to come back to a dead tortoises is all. If you're like me, the guilt would be with you forever.

On a different note if you think that your tortoise has friends you're in for an eye opener. Tortoises consider other tortoises competition for food. That's it. When they follow a tortoise around they're not trying to be friendly they're trying to push him out of their territory. When they 'sleep' together they're not sleeping together. one is being a bully and the other has shut down because he can't escape.

Many of us joined this website with tales of what they do with their tortoises; for instance, letting them run around their house, totally not acceptable here. The floor temperature is much colder than the area in their enclosure, you could accidentally step on them or crunch their head in the door or they can eat something dangerous to their digestive system(hair, dust bunnies)off the floor. All of these have happened to folks on this forum.
When we see something that appears dangerous for the tortoise we let our opinions be known to educate the owner and hopefully the owner doesn't get bent out of shape because we are just trying to educate everybody of the old outdated information or of dangerous situations that people don't realize are dangerous. You may think we are a little too careful with the tortoises but if there's even ONE chance in a hundred that it's dangerous why do it?

Sulcata tortoises in their native habitat don't swim. It's not necessary for their health. They walk. Perhaps instead of swimming you could increase the size of his home to make it so he can get his exercise in a safer way? If you had a tortoise that had a physical issue I can understand water therapy. We've actually seen that here on the Forum and it works but it's used for tortoises that are already bad off so the benefits outweigh the small amount of risk. I hope this helps clear up your responses from your original post. Oh and if I didn't already welcome you to The Forum... WELCOME!


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## Bambam1989 (Nov 23, 2017)

sbohonos said:


> Thanks for the replies guys and gals!
> 
> Bambam1989 - to be blunt, yet not meaning disrespect or intentional offense (honestly)  - yes, I have heard and read they "could carry pathogens".
> 
> ...


It's really hard to offend me, so no worries on that.
Basically, the people on the forum can only offer their opinions and give advice. It's up to you(or anyone else for that matter) to decide if you want to take that advice. 
My OPINION is that torts are solitary and do not need "buddies" and that it would be simple to create a new swim area for your tort with a plastic tub or even a kiddy pool and help reduce the risk of him becoming sick through contact with a species he is unlikely to naturally come in contact with.
You seem determined to let your tort swim, and though it is not something I would do with my tort, I can't provide any solid reason not to as long as he can find a place to get out if he wants to.
If you like seeing your tort swim in the tank with turtles then there really is no one who is going to stop you
That water temp is probably safe. My concern was that it would be room temp(70s). My little one always explores after his soaks- my theory is that he is making sure that everything is the same, seeing where I placed his food, and making sure there are no trespassers or predators.
Do you have any questions about his enclosure or anything? We like pics by the way...
We seem to have hijacked this thread @Yvonne G can you help?


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