# "tortoise chips"



## Kapidolo Farms (Aug 28, 2015)

Hey all, I'm drying opuntia into small pieces as a natural calcium supplement. I've made a few shapes and the chips, based on limited feedback, are working best for the few trials out there and my own use. I mix them in with wet salad greens. 

If you would like to try a small sample PM me your mail address, or text it to 215-483-7675 let me know your name too, and that the text is about tortoise chips.

Any questions or concerns, lets do it here open book style.


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## wellington (Aug 28, 2015)

How would you like to receive our findings? Here on this thread or in a pm which you could copy/paste as you please?


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## Kapidolo Farms (Aug 28, 2015)

wellington said:


> How would you like to receive our findings? Here on this thread or in a pm which you could copy/paste as you please?


Here is fine. Please be articulate. I actually ate some and find they would taste good with just the slightest seasoning, salt vinegar etc.


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## Kapidolo Farms (Aug 29, 2015)

Here is another batch prepared for the drying process. I have read enough of the food and nutrition lit to not be worried about the negligible nutrient loss with sun drying, most fruit originally came that way. But it loses too much color, and I think it has to look good too. I don't want to use sulphur to help it keep color like human food producers use. So no more sun drying. The best color retention occurred with a gentle warm air movement over the chips already sent out to tortoise owners. The diameter of the shoe strings and angel hair is good but too complicated to deal with as whole cut pads, These are more chips and shoe string pieces, same diameter but shorter lengths.


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## Careym13 (Aug 29, 2015)

I'm looking forward to receiving mine


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## wellington (Sep 2, 2015)

Okay, here is what I have found with my picky male leopard and the two females that's not so picky. Also my Russian.
I served small portions of each batch dry and also soaked. 
I had four bags, one each of Chips, Angel Hair, Planks and Shoe String.
Some of each by itself, some of it mixed with other greens and a tad of mazuri.
All of it wet, made them sniff at it. Totally ignoring the dry.
The batch that had the finest strands, the angel hair and shoe stings, wet and dry were eaten. Two leopards ate more of it then the picky one. None of them ate all of it.
The fatter strands, Chips and Planks, we're not eaten at all, neither wet or dry.

My Russian which is the most picky wouldn't eat any of it.

I saved a little from each bag for one more test. I'm going to grind it all up finer, almost to a powder and sprinkle it onto wet greens.
That result will be Thursday. An update will be then or after the holiday weekend, as I'm going out of town.

Hope this helps.
Oh, I like the small stands better myself. They took less time to soften when soaked.


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## Kapidolo Farms (Sep 3, 2015)

wellington said:


> Okay, here is what I have found with my picky male leopard and the two females that's not so picky. Also my Russian.
> I served small portions of each batch dry and also soaked.
> I had four bags, one each of Chips, Angel Hair, Planks and Shoe String.
> Some of each by itself, some of it mixed with other greens and a tad of mazuri.
> ...



Hi Barabara,

Thanks so much for the frank response. I have had a different transition for a few reasons. I have fed out fresh opuntia since February when I moved and the stand was growing right here. I tried fresh out earlier than that, but as grocery store pads. All my tortoises have had it for awhile, even though it is fresh, the transition to dry ended up being seamless for me. I am pretty sure the ease in accepting it was based on the fresh source history. As I recall initial acceptance of fresh was spotty too.

For the smallest guys I used a large piece vegetable grater to open it up and expose the fleshy inner part. This size is great for the small tortoises mouths' but with so many small exposed sides the sap made everything sticky if it was not used immediately. This size piece is for the neonates (leopards and pancakes) and Egyptians.

The larger tortoises like Darth (adult male Manouria emys phayrei) and the Forsten's tortoises seem to not be deterred by the skin. It is not easy for them, but they keep at it. I gave them what I call planks (dried and re-wet-ed), and they just ate it like it had been there all along. I fed out the last of the planks not re-wet-ed, and only Darth would eat them as dry, and he is a 60 pounder, so not so worried about the the larger size pieces of dry opuntia.

For the middle size guys (pancakes and Speke's hingeback) I use the slicing part of a grater and make small fresh chips. The dry are moistened and put in their salad and they don't seem to have noticed. 

I wholly agree the smaller dried pieces work better, I have sorted out a new four cut process to keep the long fiber quality and make smaller pieces. They dry better in that it is quicker, and the color retention is much better.

Some of the sample that you got had been 'sun' dried, and that is quick, but too much color is lost in my opinion.

So 1)I had already been feeding much fresh, the odor aspect was not a 'new' or 'novel' food, and 2) I made pieces with specific salad eaters in mind.

As dry it is a tougher acceptance to feed it as a stand alone item, re-wet-ed as a stand alone works to a greater extent. Re-wet-ed and mixed into a salad and they eat it along with everything else. When fresh they will eat it as a stand alone thing right away. They may come to do that with dry, but I am more interested in them eating it in their salad and getting the rich mineral source and long fiber, not as a stand alone thing.

For the dried I have made much smaller pieces, but not a powder, I want to preserve as much long fiber quality as possible. So diameter will be constant as small pieces with lengths 1/4", and 1", and large diameter at 2 inches. These size pieces are working for the tortoise groups I have mentioned here. 

These sizes dry better in that they keep color and dry quickly. I am left to wonder if they see it as fat grass?

I don't have adult sulcatas at my home. I'm making some more giant planks to see if the large male (Dudley) at Yvonne's place will take them.

Again thanks for trying this out and telling me how it has worked.

Everyone else waiting on some to try - I'm going to prepare the packs tonight, and if done early enough I'll send them out tonight, otherwise they will go out tomorrow or Saturday.

I have also recently been reading so much published peer review literature on opuntia as a food stuff I am pissing my wife off talking about it. She has come to ask me sarcastic questions like "So, can you keep the spines and brush your teeth with them?, shut up already" lol.


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## wellington (Sep 3, 2015)

I did forget to add, that two of my leopards have just recently started eating fresh cactus without it having to be blended as a mush and mixed in with greens. Before just giving them a chunk they would ignore it. My big female, that I got from Neal, she is a better eater of cactus. Not sure how much she got from Neal, but seeing he lives in AZ, I'm sure he fed it from the start. Maybe his input would help here. @Neal 
I also, forgot, that the freeze dried cactus I bought, that I sent you a picture of. I was tort sitting two little leopards at the time I got that. They enjoyed it better then my own. At that time I just had the two, not the one from Neal. 
Also, this is the first year my first leopard, my male Tatum, has really started to graze. He would pick here and there at plants and weeds, but never grass. Now he does it the grass. So, as they are getting older, they seem to be more open to new stuff. I didn't start him out on grass or cactus when little, so it's harder to get him to eat new stuff.

I do like the thinner stuff better and the torts seem too also. The larger cuts, maybe if they were soaked longer and gotten softer, they may have worked better. I did see my one female working on a bigger piece, but gave up as it was a little tuff for her.

My Russian, just won't touch any cactus no matter how I try to feed it. When I got him, already an adult, he was fed mainly kale and strawberry. I have been able to get him to graze and eat other greens, but he still is a fussy butt.

Btw, let your wife know, with this, and the feed back, the prospect of getting it in just the right sizes, selling it and making some money from this could be just around the corner. If your not thinking of that, you should.


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## Prairie Mom (Sep 3, 2015)

Just received a pretty awesome package in the mail So far, I can say these survived beautifully in (I'm guessing) a very delayed mail truck. Everything arrived well. The entire package smells fantastic! I'll test it out on my sulcata and get back to you. I'm a bit swamped and beg for your patience. Thanks again! These look phenomenal. What great options!


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## wellington (Sep 3, 2015)

Okay my last update. 
My post above I mentioned that I saved a little back from each bag to blend into almost a powder. Well, Change of plans. My chopper died on me, ugh.
So, I soaked all remains for a couple hours. They are all nice and soft. I put a pile about 8 inches away from my pickiest leopard and he came out from under the tree and is eating away, yay, that's great for him to do. The other two leopards also got a pile and they too are eating it.
So, if you have a picky eater, and doesn't really like the dry version, soak it for quite some time. Just a few minutes isn't enough for my pickier eater. Although he did eat the soaked smaller stuff before, he seems much more enthusiastic about it being much softer and this is even the bigger cuts that he didn't care for last time, he is now eating.


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## Kapidolo Farms (Sep 3, 2015)

This image of one ounce (28 grams) is equivalent to slightly more than 1/2 pound of fresh pad. Top center is the 1 inch strips of small diameter (medium chips) bottom right are the larger 2 inch pieces pad width (large chips) and the other pile (bottom left), even though it looks so similar to the top pile was 1/4 (maybe 3/8) inch when wet (small chips) and is the same diameter as the medium chips.

Prairie Mom's image shows angel hair (top), then shoestring (middle to the right), 4 inch chips that were the first non sun dried sample, so better color, lower right, and bottom left are planks (thicker slices the length of the pad. The angel hair is a smaller diameter than the shoestring, they are both pad length cuts. That shoestring diameter is what I am using now for what is in my image in this post, but with the 1 inch and 1/4 inch lengths.

The problem with the angel hair is the diameter. Too much 'juicing' occurs and so individual plant cells that are whole are many fewer, so there is a greater loss of cell contents. That means a much greater loss of non-elemental nutrients. All these piece sizes will provide really good long fiber when sized to the tortoise, and elemental nutrients (N, Ca, P, K etc.) are preserved for any size piece. But there is so much more to why Opuntia is a good food item, I would like to keep that as well. The shoestring diameter and bigger don't 'juice', so that is looking like a minimum diameter, length is as you want it.

If someone has an idea for a different size, I'll try that.






The next set of samples will go out Saturday AM, tomorrow is a date night with Tamara (my wife). This distribution will include three (ten gram) samples one each of the three sizes in the image.


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## Kapidolo Farms (Sep 4, 2015)

Will said:


> Here is another batch prepared for the drying process. I have read enough of the food and nutrition lit to not be worried about the negligible nutrient loss with sun drying, most fruit originally came that way. But it loses too much color, and I think it has to look good too. I don't want to use sulphur to help it keep color like human food producers use. So no more sun drying. The best color retention occurred with a gentle warm air movement over the chips already sent out to tortoise owners. The diameter of the shoe strings and angel hair is good but too complicated to deal with as whole cut pads, These are more chips and shoe string pieces, same diameter but shorter lengths.
> 
> View attachment 145950
> View attachment 145953


The top image is the one inch long shoestring cut, and the bottom image is the 2 inch long pad wide cut.


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## Prairie Mom (Sep 5, 2015)

I have a question...

I was considering testing out feeding this both dry/dehydrated and after it has been soaked and absorbed as much water as possible.

I'm wondering if tortoise owners should have any concern about dried cactus, fruits, veg etc expanding in their tortoise's stomach and causing discomfort? Maybe rehydration is the safest way to go? Curious about your thoughts.


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## Kapidolo Farms (Sep 5, 2015)

Prairie Mom said:


> I have a question...
> 
> I was considering testing out feeding this both dry/dehydrated and after it has been soaked and absorbed as much water as possible.
> 
> I'm wondering if tortoise owners should have any concern about dried cactus, fruits, veg etc expanding in their tortoise's stomach and causing discomfort? Maybe rehydration is the safest way to go? Curious about your thoughts.



I have soaked it overnight and the 'expansion' is very minimal if it occurs at all. I have not fed it dried from being dried on purpose, but a driver early on with this idea was seeing my tortoises eating the dried bits from an earlier (two or three days) salad. So I have no worries on that. 

What I have done is wet it thoroughly with misting, like dried grass, or soaking for a as long as it takes for me to chop up greens, then mix it in with the escarole/romaine along with whatever else is going into the salad that day.


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## Kapidolo Farms (Sep 5, 2015)

Six more samples going out now. Not to our over the border/pond friends yet. Sorting out a label that calms down concerns, someone might think it looks like pot/marijuana.


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## Prairie Mom (Sep 5, 2015)

Will said:


> I have soaked it overnight and the 'expansion' is very minimal if it occurs at all. I have not fed it dried from being dried on purpose, but a driver early on with this idea was seeing my tortoises eating the dried bits from an earlier (two or three days) salad. So I have no worries on that.
> 
> What I have done is wet it thoroughly with misting, like dried grass, or soaking for a as long as it takes for me to chop up greens, then mix it in with the escarole/romaine along with whatever else is going into the salad that day.


Good to know. Thanks


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## Neal (Sep 5, 2015)

wellington said:


> I did forget to add, that two of my leopards have just recently started eating fresh cactus without it having to be blended as a mush and mixed in with greens. Before just giving them a chunk they would ignore it. My big female, that I got from Neal, she is a better eater of cactus. Not sure how much she got from Neal, but seeing he lives in AZ, I'm sure he fed it from the start. Maybe his input would help here. @Neal
> I also, forgot, that the freeze dried cactus I bought, that I sent you a picture of. I was tort sitting two little leopards at the time I got that. They enjoyed it better then my own. At that time I just had the two, not the one from Neal.
> Also, this is the first year my first leopard, my male Tatum, has really started to graze. He would pick here and there at plants and weeds, but never grass. Now he does it the grass. So, as they are getting older, they seem to be more open to new stuff. I didn't start him out on grass or cactus when little, so it's harder to get him to eat new stuff.
> 
> ...



Yes, my tortoises are fed cactus quite frequently, well once or twice a month. I'm not sure if that's anyone else's "frequent", but it seems a good anount to me. I would like to do once a week or every other week, but my cactus can't handle the bioload at the moment. Slowly I'm getting there.


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## Kapidolo Farms (Sep 6, 2015)

https://www.facebook.com/KapidoloFarms

Hey all, I made a Facebook presence for this. No matter how it ends up, if/when I start selling I will always give TFO members a 10% discount. How I'll know you're a TFO member for the discount? Order here on TFO via a PM.

Until such time, the samples are free, and now that I figured out a few economies, I will be sending out samples for a longer time than I initially considered viable. One per household, unless I just send you more to try out.


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## Keith D. (Sep 6, 2015)

Can't wait till mine come in, 5 DTs to try it out on lol

Oh I have a quick question, the pads you are using are they from young pads or older ones.


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## Dessy (Sep 6, 2015)

Will baby sulcatas be able to eat this?


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## Kapidolo Farms (Sep 11, 2015)

Hey All,

So I've sent out six more samples last week, and approaching 20 more tomorrow. 

I had some trouble drying, our local humidity spiked. Most people who study Opuntia, plant physiologists, breeders for new cultivars for specific traits, and people looking for the next best nutricutical use 45C (113F )as an upper drying limit to preserve near 99.xx % large molecule nutrients and compounds. So I've been using 110F as that is where the proportional thermostat sits at best. 

Opuntia is a pretty interesting plant, there are 100's of species and many cultivars of a few of them. They all have a few traits in common, like even the most spineless still have tiny micro spines. Non have anthocyanins, but rather have betalains a class of pigments that do much of the same work, but yet are different. That makes even the same shade of green (chlorophyll, yet another pigment) look different to a tortoise's eye.

But I digress, samples are going out tomorrow, and folks I told next week, will get theirs mailed this week, so delivered next week.

I am making another different size piece, this would be what I call crumbles. The re-wetting capability is much higher. but it is crumbles, not pieces. 

I have kept and extra vigilant eye on the pancakes, my groups most dedicated to eating dry opuntia, and they almost seem, somewhat like Egyptians, to spend time looking in this spot and that for some dry morsel they can eat. But unlike the Egyptians, the pancakes will run to fresh over dry right away. The Egyptians show no such strong preference, they are hunt and peck predators of plants pieces.

I am thinking best to try re-wetting it no matter what. About a 15 minute soak or so, much like dry pellets, and it softens a great deal. I let some soak overnight, and it did not seem to be more soft at that point.

Please share your thoughts about *Cactus Chips* here or send me a PM, call me or text me 215-483-7675 (my phone was out for three days this week, sorry about that). I have included a label of sorts with the samples sent out last Saturday and those I will send out tomorrow. If you think some better text would work, please feel free to suggest it. Will


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## Kapidolo Farms (Sep 11, 2015)

Dessy said:


> Will baby sulcatas be able to eat this?




@Dessy , I don't know specifically, I do feed both fresh and dry re-wetted to baby leopard tortoises. These leopards are some hatched at my house and some at @Yvonne G 's house that we have sold. Leo's and sulcatas are bigger size babies so I think sulcatas can. Will


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## Kapidolo Farms (Sep 15, 2015)

Keith D. said:


> Can't wait till mine come in, 5 DTs to try it out on lol
> 
> Oh I have a quick question, the pads you are using are they from young pads or older ones.


Hi Keith,

I don't know what qualifies as young or old, these are qualitative terms.

I am using pads that are less than two years old (last year's new pad) but no younger than 4 months (this years older pad), all the pads are terminal pads, that is they are the last one in the chain of pads from the ground up.. Despite the dogma associated with age and nutrition, older pads to three years have better a nutrient load and a better calcium phosphorus ratio than those pads that are just a few weeks old to a few month old. The oxalate content is much less in 'older pads', and that which is in the pad is tied to calcium already, not free to form oxalate, if absorbed, in the blood.

I understand this is not the perception common in conversation, so if you have a contrary point of view please express it with scientific literature, and not dogma.

Here is at least one study showing this nutrient trend for pads upto 120 days of age. http://www.researchgate.net/profile/Margarita_Contreras-Padilla/publication/229112409_Evaluation_of_oxalates_and_calcium_in_nopal_pads_(Opuntia_ficus-indica_var._redonda)_at_different_maturity_stages/links/00b7d5224b0b54c001000000.pdf

There is much interest in opuntia as a human food, fodder for animals, and a source of nutriceuticals and pharmaceuticals. The published peer reviewed literature is overwhelming. 

In short - young pads (up to four months), even for those cultivars that are spineless or have very reduced spines, have the highest load of compounds that are not desirable for nutrition typically sought for tortoises, and the plant has evolved to do that as those pads are the most "defenseless". I understand that for human food consumption the younger pads may cook best in casseroles, pickled etc. but they are not optimal for tortoise food.


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## Yvonne G (Sep 15, 2015)

This is very interesting, Will. I have always chosen the very young pads because they are softer and easier for the babies to bite. But I guess I'll have to change my way of thinking.


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## Kapidolo Farms (Sep 15, 2015)

I have sorted out a cut and drying process that works real well, the pieces dry fast, re-wet faster, and the color is preserved, while still using a cut along the length of the pad to preserve the long fiber goodness. These chips crumble more like potato chips when dry, and have a fruit leather consistency when re-weted. I have again tried some myself, they taste good, but I'm maybe a bit eccentric, please don't try them yourself. I will package them in vacuum sealed tear open zipper bags with an oxygen/moisture absorbent. This is said to extend shelf life for many years, it is how survivalists food is packed. Once opened the closed bag should be kept in the refrigerator. 

Four/4 ounces of dried pad is equivalent to 2 pounds of fresh pad. Ten/10 ounces is equivalent to five pounds of fresh pad. 

Please respond with a PM if you would>>>

1) At what price would you consider a 10 ounce bag of Cactus Chips a bargain?

2) At what price would you consider it expensive, but still buy a 10 ounce Cactus Chips?

3) At what price would you doubt the quality of the Cactus Chips?

4) At what price would you not buy a 10 ounce bag of Cactus Chips because they are too expensive?

A new image of the better cut is on the Facebook page, click anywhere on this post to go there now.


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## Kapidolo Farms (Sep 15, 2015)

Yvonne G said:


> This is very interesting, Will. I have always chosen the very young pads because they are softer and easier for the babies to bite. But I guess I'll have to change my way of thinking.


Yeah, that was a hard thing for me to see how opposite the thinking is with what food nutritionists find when they evaluate pads. Those young pads are easier to eat, that's why people like them. And eating pads has been an ongoing thing for 7000 years, the spineless varieties are had been very rare, or recently developed.

There are a number of nutrient and pharmaceutical researchers, the FAO and independent investigators all over the world looking into Opuntia as a food item. Aside from trying a few chips I have made, I gotta say, it tastes pretty good when cooked into some dishes. Lucky for me Tamara is an all-in food person.


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## Yvonne G (Sep 15, 2015)

(I find it very interesting that you have made your complete post (#25) into a link. You devil, you!)


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## Keith D. (Sep 15, 2015)

Will said:


> Hi Keith,
> 
> I don't know what qualifies as young or old, these are qualitative terms.
> 
> ...


I agree with you on this Will, that is why I as asking young or older. I feed nothing but pads that are 1 to 3 years old.


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## Prairie Mom (Sep 16, 2015)

Okay, WIll "Mavis" has 2 clear favorites!!!
First off, I consider the dehydrated Opuntia a complete success. I would absolutely consider getting more to mix in her food over the winter.

I soaked all four varieties separately in warm water for about 2hrs.



I placed all four choices (planks, chips, angel hair, and shoe-string) equally in front of my 15.5lb young Sulcata and watched what she chose to go for.




The first one she decided to eat was the Chips from the bag labeled "24gms Chips."




She ate nearly all the chips, when the angel hair caught her eye. She devoured the angel hair.



She only took a couple quick bites of the "planks" and only a few bites of "shoe string," and then LEFT those two behind to go pick at any leftovers of the Chips and Angel hair...



Offering us choices to sample was a great idea. Mavis clearly has favorites (which really surprise me!). I would consider getting these again during the winter.
THANK YOU, WILL!


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## Prairie Mom (Sep 16, 2015)

I've really liked the dehydrated opuntia and am seriously thinking about your $cost question. I haven't quite decided yet. I'll share a couple things on my mind...I think your biggest market is going to be cold climate keepers like myself. Those of us that are crazy enough to keep these animals in such hostile environments have had to become quite savvy with their diet and ability to feed during the winter. -Many of us are gardeners and learning to produce and store our own healthy foods for our tortoises over the winters. Gardeners are notoriously thrifty AKA CHEAP.

Some things that would help me and probably others, would be a little salesmanship on why I should be seeking this out as a food source. Remember, we're learning to dry and store high calcium foods like mulberry and grape leaves etc. So, I'd really like a good pitch on why I should pay to add this to my tortoise's diet. I am also a very visual person and a visual thinker. It would help me to actually SEE the food in the bag before I could comfortably say how much I'm willing to spend.


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## Kapidolo Farms (Sep 16, 2015)

That is all sorta (interesting) funny. My tortoises have shown some preference for the chips as well. The angel hair and shoestrings shapes as I sent them to you are problematic with getting a good drying, I made most of the rest of the sample using those diameters but in short lengths, they too are problematic for cutting. The planks offer no advantage and maybe are to onerous to handle. I have started cutting the 'chips' a bit thinner, and they can be crumpled in your hand or kept as whole pieces as you may wish.

As for salesmanship, yeah, I'm working on that, but your help with product development right now is more important, and your feedback is worth a great deal.

I have some packaging and image ideas and will show those to you at some point. 

I agree slightly warm water is best, I have soaked for as long as it takes me to cut up the escarole and romaine for the day, and un-measured number of minutes.

And I'm glad your tortoise liked it. My wife keeps giggling about this whole project, but also says how good the it all smells. She is always willing to try something new to eat, so we have used some Opuntia in out cooking (there are recipes online) so now I have to compete with her and my mother-in-law for pads before I start processing them.


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## Prairie Mom (Sep 16, 2015)

I think the shorter lengths of angel hair and shoe-string will be better. I worried a little as I watched her sucking down those long strands. I wished I had broken it up a bit as viewed her snacking. -So, I think you've made a great improvement there. How funny that your tortoises like the chips too. I really never would have guessed this.

In regards to the salesmanship, I'm excited to learn how these are nutrionally and claimed health benefits. I've heard of people eating them too. I think it's awesome that you and your wife are trying them out They really do smell nice.


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## Kapidolo Farms (Sep 16, 2015)

The nutrients in the chips I have have not been evaluated, I can only cite what other have found doing studies. Most food for animals and people have values measured per production batch or per ton or some other increment. I may get a proximate analysis done of the chips I am producing, but until then, I can only quote what others have found with the oputia they have evaluated. That is why I am suggesting they are simply a good form of long fiber. 

What others have found and I can quote many studies, but will not do that in this particular post is that the mucilage in the opuntia is very similar to the mucilage in Okra, and considered very good at moderating the digestion of whatever is in the whole meal. The long fiber is not starchy, and yet digests and add carbohydrates. There are a complex of macromolecule nutrients not so abundant elsewhere in food items. Opuntia is CAM plant not a C3 or C4, not so many diet items are CAM. CAM plants use alot more energy to grow, so that means they have a higher amount of ATP in them. They have betalains, which are mutually exclusive in plants from anthocyanins (a range of plant pigments) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betalain

Why that is important is that tortoises see betalains as a different color than anthocyanins, and they seem to have a stronger appeal. When tortoises poop meals high in betalains it is not red. We can change our excrement color with the ingestion of beets, a rich source of betalains, which means we did not digest it, it was not bioavailable to us. So they have an enzyme that breaks it down, a not so fully understood nutrient, but tortoises seek it out. 

Calcium Phosphorus is great on average 10:1, here it shows about 20:1 http://www.feedipedia.org/node/120 . So what value to state(?), I suggest 10:1 as it is about the lowest for the age pad I use.

Opuntia reminds me of grapes in that the same plants grown different ways in different regions produce very different fruit/wine. There are several species of Opuntia, some have only trace amount of oxalates. Most of the oxalates are not bioavailable anyways, unlike those in chard. Bioavailable indicates whether it has a good chance to be absorbed in the digestion process (is bioavailable) or does it just pass through (not bioavailable).

In short the best thing I have come to see while using the opuntia is good solid growth on several species of tortoise. But it is difficult to ascribe the good growth to the addition of opuntia, as I feed out much mulberry and other high quality foods. Opuntia defiantly qualifies as a high quality food.


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## Prairie Mom (Sep 17, 2015)

Thank you. This was helpful.


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## Anyfoot (Sep 17, 2015)

@Will. Received my optunia today. Thanks. 
Looking forward to see what happens with the reds.
Be a miracle if I can get the homeana to eat it. But will try. May try and mix it with chopped worms for them. I can only get them to eat fruit,worms,slugs,snails, mushrooms and spinach. No other greens at all. 
Will have a play around this weekend. 

Thanks again.


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## Keith D. (Sep 17, 2015)

Hey Will, got the opuntia today, I will let you know how it goes with my torts. Leo eats anything and everything so he should gobble it up within prob lol


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## Anyfoot (Sep 17, 2015)

Anyfoot said:


> @Will. Received my optunia today. Thanks.
> Looking forward to see what happens with the reds.
> Be a miracle if I can get the homeana to eat it. But will try. May try and mix it with chopped worms for them. I can only get them to eat fruit,worms,slugs,snails, mushrooms and spinach. No other greens at all.
> Will have a play around this weekend.
> ...


Yeah mine is opuntia not optunia.. Not sure I can blame the phone for that error. I know I'll blame it on the kids running riot.


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## Kapidolo Farms (Sep 17, 2015)

Anyfoot said:


> @Will. Received my optunia today. Thanks.
> Looking forward to see what happens with the reds.
> Be a miracle if I can get the homeana to eat it. But will try. May try and mix it with chopped worms for them. I can only get them to eat fruit,worms,slugs,snails, mushrooms and spinach. No other greens at all.
> Will have a play around this weekend.
> ...


I'm glad to hear this, I did not segregate your envelope from USA first class postage, nor did I put a declaration on it. I thought I would see it back in my mail box as undeliverable. I don't know if this was lucky or just the way it works. Either way I'm glad it landed.


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## Anyfoot (Sep 17, 2015)

Will said:


> I'm glad to hear this, I did not segregate your envelope from USA first class postage, nor did I put a declaration on it. I thought I would see it back in my mail box as undeliverable. I don't know if this was lucky or just the way it works. Either way I'm glad it landed.


I had to take a taste myself, and its very nice, seriously it tastes good. The rest is for torts.


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## Tom (Sep 17, 2015)

I finally found a few minutes to pop open this thread and read it all. Thanks for the education Will. I did not know that the tender young pads were higher inAs you well know I feed out lots of opuntia every summer and I think you saw all my varieties. I'm glad to know that it is such good stuff. This spring I was quite tardy in getting my other plants and seeds in the ground, so I have been using all the opuntia varieties two or three times a week all summer. I'm glad to know that its such good stuff.

I'd be happy to try out some of your new stuff on my herd. I'm pretty sure they will devour it, but I'd be happy to report back whatever the results.

I think one point to emphasize to new "customers" would be that torts seldom eat new things right off the bat. Some tortoises in my herds take longer to try new foods than others. I would just hate for someone to offer your chips to their tortoise and decide after one or two attempts that this great stuff was a no go. Some of mine take weeks or months of repeated attempts to try a new food.

I love your idea here Will. Once I try it, I will invent some pricing numbers to answer your questions.


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## Tom (Sep 17, 2015)

Anyfoot said:


> I had to take a taste myself, and its very nice, seriously it tastes good. The rest is for torts.



I'm afraid to try it. All summer long my hands, arms and body is covered in those little glochids. I find them when I haven't even been handling the cactus pads. I wouldn't want those glochids in my mouth. I don't know how our tortoises do it.


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## Kapidolo Farms (Sep 17, 2015)

Anyfoot said:


> I had to take a taste myself, and its very nice, seriously it tastes good. The rest is for torts.


We've all tried it at my house. My mother-in-law labeled it as food you eat when there is nothing else. Not high praise from a woman who grew up in Soviet times Russia. I kind like them, they have their own unique flavor and like many things it may be an acquired taste.

I think for tortoises and educating people about new and unusual foods, I can find any one of 10,000 scripts here on TFO. I've also sampled out to some folks with Uros and Rhinos, they seem to just feed it totally dry with no problem. No PHT skink people have received any, but someone will sooner or later. I'm okay with it if someone whose first foray onto TFO is "My tortoise will only eat pineapple from under the sea" that will be the charge of TFO en-mass, not just me, to deal with.


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## Kapidolo Farms (Sep 19, 2015)

The free sample opportunity will end on Friday 25 September, thereafter samples can be purchased. Those samples will cost US $7.00 each with a $5.00 value towards a later purchase. The not-free samples will be one ounce.

The after Friday 25 Sep 2015 $7.00 samples will only be the chips, they are the favorite. I am working out a pellet, but that is a tougher item to create consistently.

As of today, if you have sought a sample by 10:00am today, it is in the mail. I got a bit overwhelmed, but all caught up now. For everyone who has offered feedback I am grateful and to everyone still sorting it out, what your feedback may be, I am happy to get it.


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## hollandop (Sep 19, 2015)

Hi Will
I'd love to try the dry cactus sample for my torts. 
How do I go about?


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## Yvonne G (Sep 20, 2015)

Start a private conversation with Will giving him your name and address. to start a private conversation, you move your mouse over "inbox" in the upper right corner and click on "start a new conversation."


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## D1105 (Sep 24, 2015)

I received the free sample today and will add it to my tort's menu tomorrow. Thanks Will!


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## Kapidolo Farms (Sep 25, 2015)

I have sorted out a cut and drying process that works real well, the pieces dry fast, re-wet faster, and the color is preserved, while still using a cut along the length of the pad to preserve the long fiber goodness. These chips crumble more like potato chips when dry, and have a fruit leather consistency when re-weted. I will package them in vacuum sealed tear open zipper bags with an oxygen/moisture absorbent. This is said to extend shelf life for many years, it is how survivalists food is packed. Once opened the closed bag should be kept in the refrigerator. 

Four(4) ounces of dried pad is equivalent to 2 pounds of fresh pad. Ten(10) ounces is equivalent to five pounds of fresh pad. 

Please respond with a PM if you would>>>

1) At what price would you consider a 10 ounce bag of Cactus Chips a bargain?

2) At what price would you consider it expensive, but still buy a 10 ounce Cactus Chips?

3) At what price would you doubt the quality of the Cactus Chips?

4) At what price would you not buy a 10 ounce bag of Cactus Chips because they are too expensive?

I asked these questions several days ago, the replies received are so all over the place that my wife, as skilled as she is in interpreting such, offers me no insight. She is a consumer insight/marketing research analyst. I'm letting 'next best alternative' and actual production costs guide this pricing structure.


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## cyan (Sep 25, 2015)

Hi Will!
I received the small, medium and large chips in my sample.

First I offered the small dry with greens and the MEPs were the only ones that ate the dry version. 

I then offered the medium wet to the adult pancakes and elongateds and they ate it great with their greens. 

The large I only offered wet to the MEPs and, of course, they ate that great as well. I did also offer them some without their greens and they ate it just fine too.

After several tries, the tiny baby pancakes are now eating the small wet with greens. It definitely took them longer to sample the new addition to their food, but now they eat it just as readily as they do their greens. 

Thank you for the samples! I would definitely like to keep some on hand as an addition to their regular diet when I don't have fresh cactus to feed. 

I would be willing to pay ~$15 (plus shipping) for a bag slightly larger than the equivalent of all the samples I received. I do believe the small size would be the best size for my guys, as I know they will all eat it. 

I hope all of this helps!
Cyndi


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## Kapidolo Farms (Sep 26, 2015)

Someone tore the label when unpacking the sample, maybe you did too, so here is the new label.

Samples are now, one ounce of large chips for $7.00 delivered in the mainland USA. Foreign postage is extra. That would be $12.80 for Canada and Great Britain. If you use PayPal friends and family I'll pass the 3% onto a tortoise centric conservation effort. If not that's okay, as are checks, cash, and Credit Cards (via PayPal).

If you didn't get a free sample and you buy one as it is offered now, I'll give $5.00 off of a purchase of an eight ounce size or larger, one time only. As I already said, when you place an order, tell me in a PM and you'll get 10% off the price until some further notice. The 10% won't apply to samples or along with a $5.00 off from a sample purchase. If all that's too mumbly, just ask.

Other discounts can be incentivised with well 'liked' images of tortoises eating KapidoloFarms Cactus Chips. All the discount things only work via ordering and posting, PMing, here through TFO. If you go through the Facebook page only, non will apply. Thank you for your interest. Will

https://www.facebook.com/KapidoloFarms


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## Kapidolo Farms (Sep 27, 2015)

Tom said:


> I'm afraid to try it. All summer long my hands, arms and body is covered in those little glochids. I find them when I haven't even been handling the cactus pads. I wouldn't want those glochids in my mouth. I don't know how our tortoises do it.



Well @Tom, as you overcame your fear and sought a sample, did you try it before offering some to your tortoises? My cat Oscar decided he wanted one of those things I keep doing stuff with. He chewed it down like a mouse.


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## Kapidolo Farms (Sep 27, 2015)

What is Kapidolo anyways? There are few interpretations of the source and meaning of this Malagasy word. It means 'ghost tortoise' or maybe 'spirit tortoise'. One reason _Pyxis planicauda_ (Flat tailed tortoise)are called Kapidolo is because they are very cryptic in the wild, it is hard to find them, and then all of a sudden one may move as if an apparition. A natural history aspect of these tortoises is that they seek out and use small clearings in the forest where they live, there are natural clearings, but also many man made, for burial spots. People visiting lost friends and family visit these spots and come across the 
"Kapidolo" in the clearing.

Another way to look at it is Ghost Tortoise Farms, but that does not sound as interesting nor does it roll off the tongue so well. 

www.facebook.com/KapidoloFarms


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## Careym13 (Sep 27, 2015)

OK, here is my feedback on the large cactus chips: I have two yearling Leopards, one is a picky eater and one eats everything in sight. I offered the large chips dry, in a small pile next to the regular feed. The pig tortoise ate them instantly. The picky eater took a bite and walked away. However, when I came home from work that night, ALL of the chips had been eaten by both tortoises. 

I will be offering soaked large chips next and then will move onto the medium and small.


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## Tom (Sep 27, 2015)

Will said:


> Well @Tom, as you overcame your fear and sought a sample, did you try it before offering some to your tortoises? My cat Oscar decided he wanted one of those things I keep doing stuff with. He chewed it down like a mouse.



I haven't gotten them yet. I will check again soon.


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## Neal (Sep 28, 2015)

Will, what type(s) of opuntia are you using?


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## Tom (Sep 28, 2015)

Mine arrived. The wife had them sitting on my desk and neglected to tell me.

I will commence feeding trials today.


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## Kapidolo Farms (Sep 28, 2015)

Neal said:


> Will, what type(s) of opuntia are you using?


@Neal, any further questions I answer for you have to be in response to your feeding trial comments.


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## Neal (Sep 29, 2015)

I am fortunate enough to live in an area where I have access to fresh cactus year round, but I would still have interest in a product like this as a "salad topper” when I don't have any cactus pads immediately available.

My tortoises' diet contains a lot of cactus. I have 8 or 9 different types of opuntia, so they certainly recognize what it is immediately when offered.

A female juvenile leopard eating what I believe is _opuntia cochenilifera_. This seems to be a favorite among all of them. (I apologize for the lack of quality in the pictures. Had I more time in life I would stage the pictures a little better so some of these will be out of focus or have weird stuff in the background)







I wanted to use the above picture to show that my tortoises recognize cactus as normal food.

For the first test, I offered them in their dehydrated state with no other food offerings. She didn't even sniff them.






This female star did not go near them.






Offered them to big Jenny, who will normally eat anything. She sniffed them:






Then asked me "What else you got?"






Notice her wet nose and grass all over her face. She had just finished grazing for quite awhile so maybe she wasn't hungry anymore.

Next trial: offering them on top of other foods. I first offered them on top of a mulberry leaf. The female immediatly took a bite and only got a mouth full of cactus chips.






She did not like them and spit them out and proceeded to focus on the mulberry leaf.






I gave it a rest for a day and did not offer them any food until the evening to see if I could work up their appetite. I also soaked the chips in warm water for about an hour...I wasn't sure what was recommended, but they were noticeably softer at this point.

I offered the larger slices to the female star. She took a bite.






Then spit it out.






Not interested.






Back to the young female leopard. Piled the wet chips on a mulberry leaf. It started to look like she'd go for them.






She ended up pushing them off.






I took what was left of the mulberry leaf away from her and separated a couple of the larger slices and put them in front of her face. She taste tested one of them.






...and did not like the taste.











One of my young males went after the soaked small slices quite aggressively.






I had another female eat it all by itself and she seemed to enjoy it, but did not get any pictures.

From my first round of testing on Saturday I have been trying to guess why the test subjects did not show interest in eating the food. I think most agree that it takes time for tortoises to readily eat new types of food. Although my tortoises get a lot of different types of opuntia, the taste will likely differ if the cactus was grown at a different elevation or different soil type than what I offer in my backyard. Maybe dehydrating it gives it a different texture and/or taste that they don't like.

My suspicion is that you might have used a different type of opuntia than the types they normally eat, or prefer to eat. That's what prompted my question above. My tortoises tend to favor _Opuntia Cochenillifera, Opuntia Quimilo, Opuntia Bravoana _and don't seem to like types like _Opuntia wootonii, Opuntia Ficus-Indica, Opuntia Engelmannii.
_
If you are only using one type, I may suggest trying others if you have the ability or if you feel it is a reasonable option.

I like the idea Will. Having something that I can store and have readily available for the times when I want to add a little more nutrition and don't have anything available appeals to me. I may place an order sometime in the future for this purpose, but I am not so eager after this trial run observing that most of my subjects did not take to it well.


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## Kapidolo Farms (Sep 29, 2015)

It's now known as _Nopalea cochenillifera_ named for the small scale insect that the carmine color dye is made from_. _Some people who study this suggest it is the oldest cultivated species for the purpose of the insect for the dye_. _ The _O.f-.i. _has the most cultivated cultivars and they seem to vary much. DeanS uses the "Old Mexico" variety which may or may not be it's own species but perhaps at least a cultivar of an established know species, maybe you know it's species name?

The variety Bob Thomas grows at his facility is a very dark green and his Russians will climb the 'trunk' to get to it. They ravage any pads he places on the ground. When a small group of TFO folks went there he demonstrated this for us with several species of tortoise. So far for fresh, non of my tortoises seem to demonstrate a preference. Not even for a variety I have with purple pads.

However the most published literature on the proximate values of any Opuntia is for O.f.-i. as well as for feeding trials with numerous types of animals and people world over. It is the best known as a food type. The WHO, FAO etc all use O.f.-i. as the point for further investigation. Flavor of course is very site dependent much like wine varietals. Maybe AZ is like the Loire Valley in France for taste of Opuntia. I'll have to stick it out being the Napa Valley.

My feeding directions do suggest wetting with water and mixing in with already fed salad items, based on early feedback of the many free samples sent out to TFO folks.. I am glad so many tortoises are willing to eat it as a stand alone item, but it is meant to be an augmentation to a balanced diet, not the whole diet or a stand alone item.


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## [email protected] (Sep 29, 2015)

Will said:


> This image of one ounce (28 grams) is equivalent to slightly more than 1/2 pound of fresh pad. Top center is the 1 inch strips of small diameter (medium chips) bottom right are the larger 2 inch pieces pad width (large chips) and the other pile (bottom left), even though it looks so similar to the top pile was 1/4 (maybe 3/8) inch when wet (small chips) and is the same diameter as the medium chips.
> 
> Prairie Mom's image shows angel hair (top), then shoestring (middle to the right), 4 inch chips that were the first non sun dried sample, so better color, lower right, and bottom left are planks (thicker slices the length of the pad. The angel hair is a smaller diameter than the shoestring, they are both pad length cuts. That shoestring diameter is what I am using now for what is in my image in this post, but with the 1 inch and 1/4 inch lengths.
> 
> ...


I got your ffree sample package today, thanks a lot. Looks good smells good. Annette


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## Momof4 (Sep 29, 2015)

I think my sample will be here soon. I'm dying to try it!


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## Kapidolo Farms (Sep 29, 2015)

Momof4 said:


> I think my sample will be here soon. I'm dying to try it!


I hope so too, not like it had to go too far.


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## Anyfoot (Oct 4, 2015)

Well @Will, I'm trying different methods to feed my torts opuntia. So far I tried hydrating some and mixing it in the fresh greens with my juvenile reds and adult homeana. Both failed, they ate around the opuntia. 
However with my hard to please homeana I put some of the smaller chips in as they were, dried. They have eaten it with spinach and fruit. Very suprised and happy.


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## Tom (Oct 4, 2015)

I wanted to try them dry since my tortoises are used to eating opuntia already. First up was Mr. Blue. 3 year old Sudan sulcata. He sniffed the chips, then turned to the green bean sized strips and began eating them. No hesitation.




Next up was my SA girl with the crooked scute. She did the exact same thing, but after a few bites she turned to the chips and ate those too. She sat there and ate all of them but left the smallest grated size last.




Next up was Goldy. 50 pound 8 year old female sulcata. She sniffed the strings and chips, but eventually did nothing more than nibble before moving on.







Next I decided to soak the remaining product and try it with different tortoise. I soaked each type in its own container for about 40 minutes, and offered it to one of my big male SA leopards. This little piggy dove into the piles and sat there and ate every scrap.








In conclusion, the product was a big hit at my place even when fed dry, in small piles, with nothing else. Soaked, and mixed with other stuff, I have no doubt any tortoise will wan to eat it. Seems to me to be a good winter supplement for anyone who has trouble finding enough food in a cold winter climate.

I would whole heartedly recommend this product to anyone who is not growing their own opuntia and anyone who has frozen winters where they need to feed a lot of grocery store greens. Actually, I'd recommend this product to anyone who cares for a tortoise.


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## bouaboua (Oct 4, 2015)

Will said:


> Here is fine. Please be articulate. I actually ate some and find they would taste good with just the slightest seasoning, salt vinegar etc.


Hi @Will please give me a call when you can. Thanks.


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## Careym13 (Dec 17, 2015)

I'm placing an order for more chips...my guys really liked them and they have been a great addition to an otherwise not so great winter diet in my cold climate.


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## TerrapinStation (Dec 17, 2015)

Tom said:


> I wanted to try them dry since my tortoises are used to eating opuntia already. First up was Mr. Blue. 3 year old Sudan sulcata. He sniffed the chips, then turned to the green bean sized strips and began eating them. No hesitation.
> View attachment 151043
> 
> 
> ...




@Tom your torts are amazing. Those leopards are beauties! Thanks for volunteering them as guinea-pigs haha


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