# Chelonian History III part 2



## Kapidolo Farms (Jul 18, 2013)

The button URL is at the end of the description. This gives me the illusion that some people will think before they post or edit or close a thread, they will read the warning.

WARNING this video has some very graphic footage of animals in a food market, and ends with an 8 minute segment of how those LIVE TURTLES ARE BUTCHERED as a food preparation process.

If you DO NOT want the images in your mind's eye then don't look.

You may wonder what purpose such a video serves and why it is historically significant?

It was/is the catalyst behind many globally significant turtle survival alliances. It provoked action and $$ to create chelonian centers around the world. And that IS WHY the video was taken and then widely distributed to hundreds of people in places that had an opportunity/placement to make changes.

Sorta like the images of baby seals being slaughtered for fur coats, it is meant to provoke. But not debates over what is going on and how horrible it is, but to provoke action to make things better.

Images of dead Russian/Pancake tortoises in shipping boxes looking like putrid hamburger and the following outcry was why IATA actually got off their butts and made the transport of tortoises less inhumane.

If the best comment you might have in regards to watching this video is how bad the animal treatment is, and you don't do some positive thing to make a positive change, you are, in my opinion, worse than the poor person wanting a meal from a turtle they buy in a market.

Write a check for whatever organization you think is actually doing a good job being proactive and helping chelonian conservation, rather than being a whiney indignant pet owner.

Me, I've spent over 100K on such matters, some donated, much my own. So that's who I am to be calling you out. Think and rethink, before you respond.

Will

THIS IS SOME GRAPHIC S*#T.
http://youtu.be/w2yut_3ARQU


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## sibi (Jul 18, 2013)

Will, how could I know what organizations to donate to that can actually help to stop this cruelty? Can you recommend some. Thanks. This is truly a sad and disturbing video. I could not watch the whole thing.


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## EricIvins (Jul 18, 2013)

Just so you know, 32:40 starts Saturday at the Movies...

I hope someone who has the equipment can take the time to enhance some of these videos to make them more viewable. Everyone that has an interest in Chelonians should know what the Asian Turtle Crisis really means....


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## Kapidolo Farms (Jul 19, 2013)

Hi,

Sibi, in my opinion the better way to use $$ for conservation is to enable people on the ground around the world, my further opinion is that among the best organizations to do this is ideawild. They receive small grant applications from people all over the globe, who need basic field equipment to document wild life and wild places, to implement small and focused educations programs, and more. They run lean, and have heart for the results they create. Passion without waste, they facilitate conservation for many species in virtually every country around the world. The have huge exposure, don't waste money, and engage people who are on the ground around the world.

I have brought specific needs to them, funded it, and they have administered it. I don't know how focused a request for fund use they may be able to receive with every dollar that comes in, but they will do a good job of not wasting a penny, and getting the funds into a viable program that meets your ideals.

www.ideawild.org

Instead of just pressing buttons on their web page, and hoping you help turtles, tell them you want your donation to be used for turtles/tortoises, or in a specific country, or for some specific type of effort. It is an excellent organization. They will do their best to comply with the needs of larger donations, and either way, not waste even a small sum. 


Eric, the original McCord video was taken with a small format analog magnetic tape, then converted to VHS, then copied several times, then converted from VHS to DVD-NTSC then to mpg4, then by YouTube. There is, as you have noted, been some degradation along the way. Just is. The VietNam tape has had a similar less well known by me trip from the guy holding the camera to YouTube. Analog magnetic tape is not treated well by time.

Will


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## Jacqui (Jul 19, 2013)

Sibi, you might consider also TSA (Turtle Survival Alliance) who tries to get folks towards conserving their own little pieces of the world and to look beyond these animals as a food source. They set up breeding programs too.

Another thought is our own Kelly (tortadise) and his group.


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## tortadise (Jul 19, 2013)

Jacqui said:


> Sibi, you might consider also TSA (Turtle Survival Alliance) who tries to get folks towards conserving their own little pieces of the world and to look beyond these animals as a food source. They set up breeding programs too.
> 
> Another thought is our own Kelly (tortadise) and his group.



Thanks Jacqui. I do believe in organizations like what Will mentioned. I'm not quite to the practice of their conservation yet. I have no issues funding my organization with a well made salary. I recommend to go with Wills recommendation. Those organizations are vastly ahead of what I do for conservation. I'm not quite there yet. Grass root conservation groups are a very very strong element in both sides of conservation.

Will can you get ahold of some original footage or vhs of these. I know some audio/visual engineers very well that could possibly render these higher quality. Its worth a shot. 

I also agree with Eric and Will. Sad yes seeing these. But you can't help these animals without creating a passion for what really happens to them. These videos and portrayal of truth is a reality we as hobbyist, scientist, conservationist, and just pet keepers cannot and should not hide from. Thanks for sharing Will.


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## Jacqui (Jul 19, 2013)

I think your modest Kelly. I prefer to work with the actual folks involved, who you know you can trust, but that may just be me. I also think sometimes smaller is better, but once more that is me. I think ALL types of programs can use help, even if it is just helping a person who is just working in his own backyard to get a breeding program going. Putting all the money into one basket is a risky thing, when several options and types of programs are out there who could use the funding.


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## Kapidolo Farms (Jul 19, 2013)

Jacqui may have a point there Kelly.

Maybe you could do a short write up of a specific project, you know, what you intend to do, how you will go about doing it, the expected outcome, and how that will positively impact chelonian conservation. Include a brief materials and methods statement, and who will provide oversight?

Maybe even use the form for a small grant application taken right from Ideawild as a template. That is not bad idea. When I had chelonian conservationists seek funding from me, I literally asked then to use the ideawild application, and comply with that format. Then I would direct them to actually apply with ideawild, the work was all done at that point. It's a good way to get a person new to the process over the hump of potential rejection for a small conservation grant.

Several of my students would get the actual ideawild grant, then I would donate half that amount to ideawild, and submit a matching fund request with my employer (many employers will match funds of employees which have been donated to established organizations).

If Idea wild did not find value in my students' grant, then I would float the application to people with enough wealth that they did not have concern for the tax write off, and often they would cut a check directly to my student. 

I had zero % overhead, 100% went to the in-field project. I did not even use grant funds for postage.

This eliminated any concern for cronyism, administration costs, blah blah blah. Often I would ask donors to submit payment directly to the source of the supply or equipment sought for the field project. 

Such as this project (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aA0SOKWRwCU), where Chuck Landrey not only paid for a great deal of field equipment for Koulang, Chuck made this video to further the specific effort. All because when Koulang was here in the US, sponsored by my organization, he got to meet the actual person doing the work in Cambodia.

I have/know past students/field workers in Malaysia, India, Cambodia, and a few others doing great work. I no longer touch funds myself, most of my students now have stand alone autonomous programs modeled in part after the program that I ran, and closed. 

One well established program is run by Pelf Chen in Malaysia, who organized a TED event (http://www.tedxkl.com/chen-pelf-nyok/).

Another is Rajeev Chuahan's Society for the Conservation of Nature (http://www.sconindia.org/) in Uttar Pradesh, India. He runs education programs for school children, converts poachers to wildlife conservation officers, collects field data on several species.

He is who world wide organization seek the advice of, when they want an on the ground person to advise them on how best to do work in much of India.

But all this is about re-action based on my being provoked by the Ho-Vietnam, and the McCord-Chinese videos. 

So Kelly, you have told me you do school education programs. Maybe Jacqui could help you get a projection unit appropriate for these kinds of programs, then both of you would be having an impact of hundreds of school children together. 

What kind of thing do you need Kelly for what kind of project? Maybe some sort of outreach in say, Central America? 

Most small grants providers want to know from the person seeking funds, some pretty basic info.

What is your credibility? Through a school, NGO, etc.

What have you already done that demonstrates ability?

What do you want to do now?

How do you propose to do that thing you want to do?

What difference might it make?

How will you measure that difference?

Just dumping money in a hole called blahblahblah.org when you press a PayPal button won't provide ablution for the act of being part of having wildlife removed from the wild. Chat the .org up about what they are doing, get them to prove to you, they are making a difference. If that does not work, then they are already flush with cash, or are frauds, more or less.

Will


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## tortadise (Jul 19, 2013)

Will said:


> Jacqui may have a point there Kelly.
> 
> Maybe you could do a short write up of a specific project, you know, what you intend to do, how you will go about doing it, the expected outcome, and how that will positively impact chelonian conservation. Include a brief materials and methods statement, and who will provide oversight?
> 
> ...



Its in progress in terms of a structured model for this sort of thing. Lots of work to be done for sure. But certainly have a semi stuctured model. Its all floating around in my head and piece by piece is slowly being completed for public, non public, grant forms, and student interaction. The best way to sum the Model up for the Central American Facility is a distant learning program with conservation animals native and non native being kept by us. Locals will obviously be mostly used for care, education, and repayment to culture by obligatory education, funding in local welfare as well.

I like to make sure all my "t" and "i" are crossed before plunging into the reality I hope I will one day see. And take the t's and I's with a grain of salt. I am terrible at grammatical editing. I hate it. I like to uses giant lengthy sentences for everything.

I really appreciate the superfluous information allocated here Will. Many of these links have helped push more through my model. Can and will fundamentally structure a better model and goal to be obtained in my organizations future.


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