# fertilizer?



## tyguy35 (Apr 11, 2012)

Hey, if a plant is grown in fertilizer how do you make it safe for your tortoise?


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## Greg T (Apr 11, 2012)

Not sure what you mean by "grown in fertilizer" but if the plant received fertilizer then many people will tell you not to feed it. Some will tell you to wait a few weeks after the fertilizer was applied before feeding it to them. I don't believe anyone really knows how long it takes for fertilizer to get out of a plant's system, so it is a tough call to say when you can feed it. People eat fruits and vegetables that have been fertilized all the time, but we don't really know how a tort might be affected. I will wait a few weeks before feeding it to my torts.

Hope it helps.


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## ascott (Apr 11, 2012)

I personally would wait a growing season...I am ultra crazy about this stuff...others will have their opinions/information as well...

You know the produce in markets have all been tainted with fertilizers and insecticides...but that does not mean we are aok after years of exposure to low levels of it...there are studies that show over fifty types of chemicals within the skin of an apple...organics is all I will bring home for the people and torts...again, just a personal choice...


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## Tom (Apr 11, 2012)

If its in the market for human consumption, I think it's fine. If you are talking about a plant from a nursery, the safe but is to wait one year, and then feed only the new growth from after that point. Some nursery stuff is systemic and can last a solid year. If you are talking about what you grow your self, it just depends on which fertilizer you have used...


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## wellington (Apr 11, 2012)

I too would wait a year. However I was also told that you could feed any new growth now, but any old growth would be fertilized and to wait a year. I would also get it out of the fertilized dirt it probably came with and replant in unfertilized, untreated dirt.


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## tyguy35 (Apr 11, 2012)

Thanks for your replies. Im not looking so much for feeding my tortoise with it, but rather decorating my tank . Everywhere I go for plants, they have no clue whether the plant has been fertilized. Is there anyway to tell that a plant has been fertilized by looking at the soil?
Thanks.


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## ascott (Apr 11, 2012)

Well....if you purchase a plant from LOWES usually there is a label on the pot/plant that tells you the nursery where it was grown...I have in the past contacted the nursery..gave them the plant, place purchased along with all other label info and they have been able to tell me their "normal" growing actions as well as any chemicals and fertilizers they have used...also I have a nursery near me where I have purchased plants as well as seeds and they have that info at hand for any of the plants that they have not grown in their own greenhouses...and the plants they grow are free of chemicals...so it will just take a little work from you to get a couple of suppliers you trust...also, if you live someplace that is conducive to growing then you can cultivate your own plant line up....unlike here in the high desert where you must perform a sacrifice...a rain dance and a prayer to get anything to get a growth start...lol...


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## tyguy35 (Apr 11, 2012)

Haha that's pretty funny. I live in canada so the plants that grow out of the ground aren't so nice and special. Just wondering can the tortoise eat maple leaves lol have a ton of those


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## wellington (Apr 11, 2012)

Maple leafs can be toxic, more so as they dry. Sometimes you can see the fertilizer or plant food in the soil. Looks like little round balls of either blue or green. Or anything in the soil that is not the same color as the dirt. If you don't see any of that, I would do the work like ascott mentioned. Any plant you put in the enclosure should be safe to eat, as they probably will eat it. Good luck.


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## ascott (Apr 11, 2012)

Maple leaves (acer--used in making maple syrup) are ok in moderation...RED MAPLE IS BAD and becomes even more toxic as the tree is ready for shedding leaves... should not be offered...

Also, keep in mind that you there are fertilizers you can not see (liquid) so the fertilizer industry has become much more sneaky with their product offerings...


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## tyguy35 (Apr 11, 2012)

Man it's crazy they really don't make it easy for us do they. How is it people even make vivariums without poisoning the tank

What if I put a fertilized plant in the enclosure out of reach that he can't reach in no way. He can't breathe it in and get sick right?


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## Tccarolina (Apr 11, 2012)

Well, I can't resist.

Fertilizer is plant food, plain and simple. Plants cannot function or grow without many nutrients, and they need more then 17 key nutrients to succeed. Most fertilizer used is the three big nutrients, Nitrogen (N), Phosphorus (P), and Potassium (K). Calcium (Ca) is also very important, since plants typically use more of it than any other nutrient, but most soils contain tremendous amounts of calcium, and so it is not included in most fertilizer mixtures. Sulfur (S) is a lesser nutrient, needed by plants in the form of sulfate, and zinc, iron, manganese, and boron are micronutrients essential for growth, but needed in smaller amounts.
Naturally, nitrogen is supplied by legumes, which make nitrate nitrogen, and lightning, which makes nitrogen. Decaying plant and animal matter make nitrate, urea, and ammonium nitrogen as well. 


Basic fertilizers are impossible to get out of a plants system, since they are part of the plant, and essential for it's survival. Applying fertilizer allows the plant to grow larger, in the same way that eating more will allow a starving person to gain weight.
Nitrogen is nitrogen whether it came from a dead animal or as an applied fertilizer. There is no difference structurally or chemically. The plant can take up nitrogen in three forms: urea, ammonium, or nitrate. 
If a soil is deficient of certain nutrients it will grow poorly, so adding them will allow the plant to grow normally. These nutrients, added to soil for the purpose of feeding it are called fertilizers.

Steve




tyguy35 said:


> Man it's crazy they really don't make it easy for us do they. How is it people even make vivariums without poisoning the tank
> 
> What if I put a fertilized plant in the enclosure out of reach that he can't reach in no way. He can't breathe it in and get sick right?





He won't get sick, don't worry. Certain insecticides applied might be an issue, and there are herbicides that could be an issue, but not any a nursury uses. Any fertilizers that might have been used are fine.

Steve


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## Tom (Apr 11, 2012)

You could also keep them in a pot where the tortoise can't reach them.


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## Morty the Torty (Apr 11, 2012)

Thank you Steve I fertilize all my plants, I think of it as plant food, not poison


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## tyguy35 (Apr 11, 2012)

Ya that's what I'll do pot them up high thanks for the messages. Appreciate it.


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## BrookeB (Apr 12, 2012)

I wouldn't be to worried about fertilizers... it's thos dam bug and weed pesticides you have to worry about!


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## ascott (Apr 12, 2012)

With all due respect....a plant that is native to an area does not require doctoring to grow. A plant can be grown without the use of added fertilizer--i do it here and will continue to do so.....if I want to plant a non native plant/shrub/tree I will do it and will have to add a bit more watering than a native plant...no problem, will do.

A plant can certainly grow free of initial fertilization with proper pruning and watering and most importantly, time.

I know folks will say what they want and will believe what is convenient, however...you can tell me till you are blue in the face that fertilizer is aok for the tortoise in my care to eat and my response will be "kick rocks"...but you go right ahead and do what you do...

The only thing that benefits from rapid plant growth is the human looking at it and again proving how impatient we are and again how we once again demand instant satisfaction....

Alright, I have said what I was compelled to...thanks for listening


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## tyguy35 (Apr 12, 2012)

Ya I won't allow fertilized plants by my little guy. And slow growinb is better growing. Just like a tortoise slow and steady equals smooth haha


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## Tccarolina (Apr 12, 2012)

ascott said:


> With all due respect....a plant that is native to an area does not require doctoring to grow. A plant can be grown without the use of added fertilizer--i do it here and will continue to do so.....if I want to plant a non native plant/shrub/tree I will do it and will have to add a bit more watering than a native plant...no problem, will do.
> A plant can certainly grow free of initial fertilization with proper pruning and watering and most importantly, time.



Agreed, as long as the soil has nutrients sufficient for growth. Of course a native species can grow, especially in nature, where most of the plant is returned to the soil where it is growing, and the relatively few creatures feeding on it return what they eat when they defecate and eventually die. But in agriculture, we harvest the crop, which is usually the high energy, high protein part of the plant, which contains high quantities of N, P, and K, and Ca, and remove it to be used for human and animal consumption. These nutrients must be replaced in the soil or production will steadily decline until plants can barely grow. Now the plant takes very long to produce a small crop.



ascott said:


> I know folks will say what they want and will believe what is convenient, however...you can tell me till you are blue in the face that fertilizer is aok for the tortoise in my care to eat and my response will be "kick rocks"...but you go right ahead and do what you do...



Fertilizer is NOT safe for your tortoises to eat. Fertilizer is food for plants, not tortoises. The nitrates are essential for the plant to use so it has nitrogen to make proteins and other plant structures, but not for the tortoise to eat straight. Also, fertilizers are plant nutrients in forms plants can easily take in, which we call salts. Plants only pull up nutrients dissolved in the water they absorb. But concentrated salts are always harmful to eat in quantity. 



ascott said:


> The only thing that benefits from rapid plant growth is the human looking at it and again proving how impatient we are and again how we once again demand instant satisfaction....



The developing world certainly benefits. If you earn 2 dollars a day, and the price of the big three commodities (Corn, Rice, Wheat) goes up, that tremendously affects your ability to survive. You may be spending 1 1/2 dollars a day on food for you and your dependents, and suddenly the price of food doubles. Now your food cost is 3 dollars a day and you can no longer feed your family. This happens when we decide to suddenly start using our corn to make ethanol. Cheap food is critical to billions of people, and it cannot happen without replacing the nutrients removed from the soil by the previous crop.
It is not we in the first world that desperately need plants to grow fast, but the third world.



ascott said:


> Alright, I have said what I was compelled to...thanks for listening



Listening   Just adding my two cents for food for thought. I know you are taking very good care of your tortoises, and I won't disagree that organically produced food is certainly not harmful to feed your family or tortoises.

Steve


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## tyguy35 (Apr 12, 2012)

You really know your plants eh haha


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## EricIvins (Apr 12, 2012)

Wow.......All you have to do is take the plant out of the soil, and wash it it really well.......Replant in your Vivarium and you're done.........

I've done this many times with multiple Vivariums and never have had any issues.......


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## Tom (Apr 13, 2012)

EricIvins said:


> Wow.......All you have to do is take the plant out of the soil, and wash it it really well.......Replant in your Vivarium and you're done.........
> 
> I've done this many times with multiple Vivariums and never have had any issues.......



If a decorative plant is infused with systemic pesticides, which most of the commercial nurseries are now using, and you plant it into a vivarium with an animal that can and will eat it, like a tortoise, it most certainly will be an issue if they get enough toxins into their system.

Am I wrong?


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## tyguy35 (Apr 13, 2012)

No your not wrong. I always thought it would be in the plant as well. And could speed like the flu into the soil to other ad animals. Well of you think about way way way back during the Dino ages animals were all huge even bugs. Polution and maybe pesticides have what I think played a part in making everything smaller doesn't grow as large or as strong. Even with people I notice kids today are tiny.


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## Tom (Apr 13, 2012)

Excellent post Steve. Very well made points. I especially like the explanation of feeding plants plant food is fine, but feeding plant food directly to torts, is not fine. Simple thing to say, but I think many people don't realize that things have changed after the plant metabolizes the nutrients...

Since my little patch of dirt has nothing to do with feeding the third world, I still favor Angela's more natural methods on my little plot of land. It suits me and my tortoises just fine.



tyguy35 said:


> No your not wrong. I always thought it would be in the plant as well. And could speed like the flu into the soil to other ad animals. Well of you think about way way way back during the Dino ages animals were all huge even bugs. Polution and maybe pesticides have what I think played a part in making everything smaller doesn't grow as large or as strong. Even with people I notice kids today are tiny.



Well now I've got to disagree with you on some points.

Chemicals and viruses do not spread in the same way.

Animals and bugs were at their current size long before the invention of pesticides, pollution and the entire industrial revolution. That has nothing to do with the size of today's fauna...

Kids today are actually being born much larger than ever before, growing faster and maturing faster too. At least all the studies I have seen indicate this to be the case.


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## tyguy35 (Apr 13, 2012)

I was watching something on discovery showing how much larger everything was due to clean air although I watched it years ago maybe I took it the wrong way. I was just noticing from when I went to school I kept seeing the new grade nines comes in and try were always smaller shorter meaning. Maybe I was that small and I was growing faster haha I don't know. But they were alot smaller but ya I know what you mean kids are reaching stages at. Faster pace.


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## Tom (Apr 13, 2012)

Are you a teenager? I remember being in high school and remarking on how you'd the freshman looked... Of course I'm sure that my upper classmen looked at me the same way. Then in college, if I passed a high school, I would think to myself how those kids looked too small and young to be in high school. Funny how your perception changes as you age. Mentally, I still think of my self as a young man, but kids look at me like an old man now...


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## tyguy35 (Apr 13, 2012)

Ya exactly. Maybe im seeing what your seeing. I always thinkthwy are to small to be in highschool. No I'm 21.


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## Tccarolina (Apr 13, 2012)

Tom said:


> Excellent post Steve. Very well made points. I especially like the explanation of feeding plants plant food is fine, but feeding plant food directly to torts, is not fine. Simple thing to say, but I think many people don't realize that things have changed after the plant metabolizes the nutrients...
> 
> Since my little patch of dirt has nothing to do with feeding the third world, I still favor Angela's more natural methods on my little plot of land. It suits me and my tortoises just fine.





I agree, it's certainly not required, and I hope people reading this don't think I'm insisting that they fertilize their plants, just that there isn't anything unsafe about fertilizer if applied properly.

I fertilize my pens early in the season before rain, because I need the wide variety of plants in the pen to produce well, and create the lush spring environment they would experience in the wild. Since my pens are stocked far more densely than they are in the wild, they mow it down faster.
I don't fertilize beyond the initial application, because the lichens that grow on the rocks in their pen will die with the chlorinated tap water, and I can't count on rain to move the fertilizer into the root zone by late spring and summer. My pens are watered with buried drip hoses.

Steve


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## Tom (Apr 13, 2012)

Tom said:


> Are you a teenager? I remember being in high school and remarking on how you'd the freshman looked... Of course I'm sure that my upper classmen looked at me the same way. Then in college, if I passed a high school, I would think to myself how those kids looked too small and young to be in high school. Funny how your perception changes as you age. Mentally, I still think of my self as a young man, but kids look at me like an old man now...



Supposed to say "... How young the freshman looked..."
Darn iPads...




supremelysteve said:


> Tom said:
> 
> 
> > Excellent post Steve. Very well made points. I especially like the explanation of feeding plants plant food is fine, but feeding plant food directly to torts, is not fine. Simple thing to say, but I think many people don't realize that things have changed after the plant metabolizes the nutrients...
> ...





Haha lichens... Your trying to keep lichens alive and I'm fighting off tumbleweeds...

Just struck me funny how everyone's environments can be so different even in the same state.


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