# Probiotics



## keepergale (Feb 6, 2017)

Question for the knowledgeable. Can anyone think of a risk in feeding tortoises a probiotic diet supplement after having treated them with medication for worms? My tortoise stools were notably softer after medication than before.


----------



## JoesMum (Feb 6, 2017)

There are some specific reptile probiotics - Reptoboost in the UK contains them allegedly, but I use it for its electrolyte properties. 

I'd have though that upping the dietary fibre would have more effect in this case though


----------



## Kapidolo Farms (Feb 6, 2017)

ZooMed forest tortoise and grassland pellets both have probiotics in them

Feces from "clean" tortoises are good source too..


----------



## KevinGG (Feb 7, 2017)

I'm not sure how accurate these commercial foods are. I know probiotics for humans must be refrigerated with the exception of certain brands that use special caps. I think it's difficult for tortoise keepers. We regularly use antibiotics that kill gut flora but don't really have a plan for reintroducing it. I'll do some research into the foods that Will suggested. Anyone have any wisdom to share on the matter?


----------



## KevinGG (Feb 8, 2017)

Spoke to my mother, who is a doctor, this morning. Her view is that any heat stable probiotic that is exposed to light will quickly dissipate. So, while it is possible that some organisms may still be alive once purchased, it's unlikely and becomes unlikelier everyday. Those probiotics with the special caps that I spoke of earlier are actually in black uv resistant bottles and caps.

The feces isn't a bad idea though Many of the organisms we consume through probiotics or "live" foods (yogurt, buttermilk) are actually isolated from human feces. Sorry if you're eating yogurt or pancakes as you read this


----------



## MichaelaW (Feb 8, 2017)

Interesting research article on this topic. http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0147859


----------



## TammyJ (Feb 9, 2017)

I know of "Benebac" and "Nutribac" probiotics for reptiles. These are not available here in Jamaica. I have used plain yogurt before in tube feeding a sick snake that had been vomiting its meals, and had been kept off food for a few weeks because of that. The snake recovered...just a story.


----------



## Kapidolo Farms (Feb 9, 2017)

MichaelaW said:


> Interesting research article on this topic. http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0147859


That is going to take additional reads over a few days. So far I think I see that some gut flora can help a turtle grow faster, and/or promote/inhibit "bad" flora. It seems like a 'tortoise' study would be in-order as they don't swim in their feces quite the same as aquatics.


----------



## MichaelaW (Feb 9, 2017)

Will said:


> That is going to take additional reads over a few days. So far I think I see that some gut flora can help a turtle grow faster, and/or promote/inhibit "bad" flora. It seems like a 'tortoise' study would be in-order as they don't swim in their feces quite the same as aquatics.


Agreed


----------



## Pearly (Feb 10, 2017)

I am all FOR probiotics! Any form of one commercially available for tort with compromised gut is better than none. There are all kinds available including sprays that you can spray daily over their food. Plain old pumpkin will help firm up the stool too (worked great with my new kittens who were pooping their guts out at the beginning). Any time you treat sick human or animal with antybiotics, start probiotic and continue for 2 wks after antibiotic finished. My two torts are very healthy but I will be giving one to mine indefinitely. It doesn't hurt anything and in my view offers great protection in forms of boosting up our internal ecosystem. Humans and animal bodies are anatomically and physiologically designed to deal with invasions and attacks from the outside. It is my strong believe that those invasions/attacks succeed in taking over when natural defenses fail. Plus you know the saying :"you are what you eat"??? Yeah... it's very true! Problem is that we and our animal ingest lots of crap that just doesn't sustain our internal ecobalance. That's why I am such big proponent of probiotics


----------



## Kapidolo Farms (Feb 10, 2017)

KevinGG said:


> Spoke to my mother, who is a doctor, this morning. Her view is that any heat stable probiotic that is exposed to light will quickly dissipate. So, while it is possible that some organisms may still be alive once purchased, it's unlikely and becomes unlikelier everyday. Those probiotics with the special caps that I spoke of earlier are actually in black uv resistant bottles and caps.
> 
> The feces isn't a bad idea though Many of the organisms we consume through probiotics or "live" foods (yogurt, buttermilk) are actually isolated from human feces. Sorry if you're eating yogurt or pancakes as you read this


I've been thinking about this light degradation, and it makes much sense that it happens. However I don't think light will penetrate the pellets much beyond a few cells of plant matter deep into the pellet. Temperature of storage will also play a role. I looked at the bottles these two foods come in (ZooMed Forest and Grassland) and they have expiration dates on them. I'd guess that date is mostly for the shelf life of the probiotics?


----------



## KevinGG (Feb 10, 2017)

Will said:


> I've been thinking about this light degradation, and it makes much sense that it happens. However I don't think light will penetrate the pellets much beyond a few cells of plant matter deep into the pellet. Temperature of storage will also play a role. I looked at the bottles these two foods come in (ZooMed Forest and Grassland) and they have expiration dates on them. I'd guess that date is mostly for the shelf life of the probiotics?



I'll try contacting them and seeing if they've done any testing on probiotic content freshly packed vs stored for prolonged periods of time. I'd think they'd have to. Regardless, keeping them in the dark in dark, sealed containers vs the clear bottles they come in would help. As for temps, those strains are ok to be kept at room temps, but Id think going cooler would be better.


----------

