# This is way off topic...but......



## Angi (Dec 19, 2010)

After reading Maggie's sad post about Wobbles it made me think about a friend I had around five years ago. Maggie was given the choice to put wobble's out of it's pain/misery. Terra's 2 year old son had drowned and been on life support for about 5 weeks when they were told he was completly gone, no brain function and things were shutting down. After they pulled the plug they had to wait for him to starve to death. It took about a week. I had never thought about euthinasia (sp?) before that, but I did after seeing Terra go though that experience. It would be cruel to put a dog though that slow death, but for a human it is the RIGHT thing to do. What do you think?


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## Kenny (Dec 19, 2010)

I think at a certain point, euthanasia is not only ethical, but the humane thing to do.
be it dog,cat,fish,tortoise or human, letting something starve to death should never be an option.


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## abra (Dec 19, 2010)

Would he have felt anything if he was brain dead? Just wondering.


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## Edna (Dec 19, 2010)

One of my friends had a stroke, and lost the ability to swallow or talk, in addition to other losses of course. She had to be tube fed and HATED it. She was able to write, and won the right in court to have the feedings stopped. Given a choice, she chose to starve to death. It was hard on those around her, but it was her choice.


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## Torty Mom (Dec 19, 2010)

Those of us that are older, do you guys remember Dr. Kevorkian? 

My Dad died a few years ago from cancer and starved almost 2 weeks before he passed. I was by his side most of the time, he couldn't speak and only answered when I spoke to him, so every few hours I would ask him if he wanted more morphine and he waved his hand yes. He would have chose another option if one would have been given.

It's terribly sad to watch things like that.


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## Laura (Dec 19, 2010)

I was just with my dad in OCt when he died.. it was HELL to see him.. anyone.. go thru that like he did.. thank goodness it was aonly a few days.. but he went into CHF and was literally drowning.. The hospice nurse was talking to us about his meds and what they did etc.. and hwo you dont want to give certain things or too much.. bla bla.. and she walked into the kitchen, and I told her I was calling my Vet, cuz if that was my dog in there, I could be arrested... so she was able to make him 'comfortable' and he was able to pass with us all there.. telling him it was ok and time.. Worst thing I ever had to witness, but glad I was there for him in the very end.. 
So.. its backwards.. we have the option for our Animals.. if we allowed them to starve to death, then we could be arrested,, if we try to help our human loved ones, and not allow them to suffer,, we call it murder..something needs to CHANGE!!!! of course it would have to be wathced closely.. but come on....really>!


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## Maggie Cummings (Dec 19, 2010)

Wobbles was put into an incubator type thing and kept warm and comfortable and was given one injection that slowly made her go to sleep and then die. It took a while longer because she is a turtle and their metabolism is slower, but it was an easy way to go...


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## terryo (Dec 19, 2010)

If a person is brain dead, wouldn't that mean that he has lost the ability to feel any pain, no matter how he died? Hearing these stories, I hope that is the case. 
I understand how you feel Laura. My son died in the middle of the night. I heard him cough, and didn't think anything of it, until I found him the next morning. I always think that I should have gone in there and he wouldn't have died alone. His lungs were slowly loosing their function, and that night they collapsed. It was unexpected, but we knew he was dying. Would I have allowed someone to give him an injection? I am caught in the middle with that one. I would want to keep him with me as long as I could, but still wouldn't want him to suffer. I just don't know. That is a question that is loaded with ethic's. I guess I'm a religious person, and would have to leave it in God's hands.


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## dmmj (Dec 19, 2010)

As a libertarian I believe a person has a right to choose how they want to live and in what capacity, but I am shocked that people starve to death in order to die the way they want to. If we did this to a dog or cat like laura said we would go to jail.

of course this reminds me of the terry schivo case.


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## Angi (Dec 19, 2010)

Oh Terry I am so sorry that you lost a son. I never thought of this until I witnessed it. Maybe the boy felt nothing, I don't know. But it was a horrible thing to wait for a child to die. It seemed inhumane. I know I would never let my dog go through that  

As I think about what was done I recall that it was not left in Gods hand. He was on life support. I think we kind of take things out of Gods hands and then put them back. It is a fine line between right and wrong.


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## Tom (Dec 19, 2010)

My wife just went through this with her grandmother. Same sad story. Humane euthanasia should be allowed for humans. I was a big supporter of Dr. K. He was HELPING people as opposed to forcing them to suffer.


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## Cherbear (Dec 20, 2010)

Oh Terryo, I'm so sorry. It's so sad what people are made to go through in life. I pray to God I go before my children. My grandmother died in her sleep and I always wondered if she felt any pain or if it was peaceful. I choose to think it was peaceful.


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## tobibaby (Dec 21, 2010)

i went through the same thing w/ my dad.. he had ALS so b4 he passed we watched the strongest man (in my eyes) deteriote in front of us slowly, but when the time came, we brought him home from the hospital, made him comfortable, and slowly injected morphin every 15 min so he wont choke to death since he refused tracheostomy. it was the hardest thing ever i wish Dr K. was around to get him out of his misery quicker.. wanting them around, animal or human, when they are suffering is kind of being selfish.. i understand losing a child would be horrible and hard, one of my great friends lost her daughter when she was 3 months. Death sucks but thats life... we are all going one day whether we like it or not and i know for a fact i do not want to suffer because someone wants me around a little bit longer.


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## Laura (Dec 21, 2010)

my mom died in her sleep, and she was very peaceful. I dont have any guilt about that and no hellish memories of her last days.. she had a brain tumor and had many awful days and we were all on a roller coaster.. it was a relief.. 
my dad.. he was sick too, but hadnt had the bad times like my mom.. less roller coaster in some ways, but much harder on all of us.. and him in the end.. just glad it wasnt prolonged...


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## GBtortoises (Dec 21, 2010)

"I think at a certain point, euthanasia is not only ethical, but the humane thing to do.
be it dog,cat,fish,tortoise or human, letting something starve to death should never be an option."

Couldn't have said it better.


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## Angi (Dec 21, 2010)

I would not have agreed if I didn't see what it was like for a family to go through it. What I find strange is that anyone would tell you that letting a dog or cat slowly starve to death is cruel, but with a human it is against the law to help it pass. My grandma died with in a couple hours of pulling the plug, so that was not bad. My dad died while hiking alone ( heart attack) on his 61st birthday, so we didn't get to say goodbye but we didn't watch him suffer. Thoughs are the only deaths where I had to make chioces about what to do. Well with my dad it was just" where do you want us to take the body, what are you going to do about a funeral etc..." He had NO plans. His only plan was to live for another 20 years.


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## terryo (Dec 21, 2010)

It's so true. I always say it's in God's hand, but don't we take it out of His hands when we give drugs, induce coma's...etc.? I am a religious person, but if I had to see a loved one suffer, I would want to stop his suffering too, so would my religion go out the window? Very tough question for me. 
OT...when one of my son's was 16 he asked me.."if someone's girlfriend got an abortion, would the boyfriend be committing a sin too?" I almost passed out, and of course we had "the big talk". My point is that kids take things so literally, so sometimes there is a fine line to cross. When my son was sick, his brothers had many discussions on this same subject.


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## Jacqui (Dec 21, 2010)

Tom said:


> Humane euthanasia should be allowed for humans. I was a big supporter of Dr. K. He was HELPING people as opposed to forcing them to suffer.



It is very rare for Tom and I to agree on anything, but this time we do. It is wrong for any animal to suffer or to force anybody to have to suffer along with them. 

With my Mom after her months of health issues, her "last moments" took only hours, not the week of starvation time. For me, it was the hardest thing I have ever had to do, to not ask or allow the medical team to do everything in their powers to keep her alive. I knew in my heart, my mother wanted to be allowed to die and not suffer or live in such an undignified vegetative state. Yet a selfish part of me didn't want my mother, my best friend to go. Honestly, it still weighs heavy on me. Still it was the right thing. I am so thankful that her own will to die, made her death swift. I just can not imagine having had to sit and watch her slowly starve to death. My heart goes out to all of you who have had to experience such a time.


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## terryo (Dec 21, 2010)

Jacqui said:


> Tom said:
> 
> 
> > Humane euthanasia should be allowed for humans. I was a big supporter of Dr. K. He was HELPING people as opposed to forcing them to suffer.
> ...



OMG!! I could not have said it better.


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## exoticsdr (Dec 21, 2010)

Wow! What a can of worms!!!

So many view points, so many life experiences, choices...none totally right and none totally wrong when comparing each to the other. 

Euthanasia has a special meaning to me, being a veterinarian and having taken care of my mother during the last year of her life while she battled cancer. I truly feel that it is one of the most important services that I provide. That said, I DO NOT perform convenience euthanasia because a client is tired of a pet or if a pet can still have a good quality of life given the correct medications and care.

As for human euthanasia, who is to regulate it? the government? the family members of a loving, dedicated family? the family members of a totally dysfunctional family? the person being euthanized? I don't have an answer and will not give my feelings on the subject.....though I will tell you, I cried when I found my mothers "suicide" pack....a ziplock bag of her out of date meds that she had saved for several years of fighting cancer, unfortunately most were drugs that would have made her pee over the moon rather than stop her heart...God Bless her. I actually became a veterinarian because of her. Her last words to me the night she died were, "Get you *** to school, you are supposed to be a veterinarian".....Thanks Mom.


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## terryo (Dec 21, 2010)

exoticsdr said:


> Wow! What a can of worms!!!
> 
> So many view points, so many life experiences, choices...none totally right and none totally wrong when comparing each to the other.
> 
> ...



Wow! That's beautiful.


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## zoogrl (Dec 21, 2010)

I think humane euthanasia on any living thing should be allowed. As the owners of our pets we have the right to make that choice. I believe that we should have the right to make that choice for ourselves as well. The choice can be made legal for humans IF we are smart about it. I think if you have a will drawn up and say exactly what your wishes would be and have a witness of a doctor and lawyer then in the event your family needs to make that decision a judge can consult with your doctor and ensure that your wishes are carried out. Doesn't a human doctor have an oath to end suffering like a vet does? Only in the event that nothing else can be done? I would put it in my will if it was allowed. I wouldn't want my family to see me suffer and decline over time and have that be their final memory of me.


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## Tom (Dec 21, 2010)

Jacqui said:


> It is very rare for Tom and I to agree on anything...



No its not...


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