# Getting african grey parrot



## Fredkas

So.... Recently i want a parrot and i like one who can talk and deligent. I am thinking of cockatoo, but after doing some research, i ended up want an african grey.

I am doing research and i would like to hear from beloved member here that own both tortoise and parrot especially african grey.

(i own cockatoos and dogs and lots other animals before when i was a child, but i am too little to give them proper care, so it is my parent taking the responsibility. I am not new with all this but sure from this time every animals that i want will be fully committed to me (different when i was a child).)

I love dogs. I am not thinking of having one because the responsibility of owning one is way too high for me now. How about parrot. I would like to hear suggestions.

@Tom i know you are one of members here that own a lot of animal. Need your opinion too.


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## legan52

We have one and he's great overall. He's super smart and knows tons of sounds. Sometimes in a bad way. He meows like the cat and does a ridiculous dog impression. He can even do that pitiful whimper bark. He knows probably 50 words/phrases as well. He does my husbands ringtone then answers it like he would. 

Upkeep isn't horrible, we should clean the cage 2-3x a week but it's usually once a week. In the summer expect fruit flies unless you stay on top of it. 

Our bird is still very young so he can be moody, and he really only likes my husband. He tolerates me but he gets depressed if my husband is out of town for too long. They need to be kept in a main living area so they are around people a lot. Reinforce every part of the cage that can open. Ours has undone bolts and unscrewed doors to escape. Note excessive methods used in attached pic. Necessary though.



Happy to answer any other questions!


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## Fredkas

I laugh so hard looking at that cage door lol. Yes i am concern about how much amount of time i need to give to african grey. I don't really have time. I don't want to abandon any pets. Tortoise is easy. They don't really miss me, they just want food. I don't really have time to interact with pets that need interactions. But i really want an african. Do african stress if i don't interact with them?

@legan52 how can you say the african is depressed?


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## Rue

I also have one. We 'rescued' her when she was around 3 years old (and she is 12 years old now) She had started plucking then. She still plucks, no matter what I have tried. Once they start, they often will not stop. The trick is to keep them from starting in the first place. And to do that, you need to make sure they have a great deal of activities to engage in. In that regard, they require quite a bit of daily, on-going work. They can also live to be 50-70 years old, so you have to be prepared to entertain them for up to 70 years!

They are a 'neurotic' species of parrot (which is, in part, why they pluck). They attach themselves to one person moreso than other species. Mine prefers my husband, who is not interested in her (he's not mean to her, he just doesn't want to engage with her). She likes me too, but not as much. I think this is part of her 'stress'. She is also somewhat unpredictable and will bite - hard. She can go from cuddling to attack mode in the blink of an eye. I have come to read her body language quite well, but she still surprises me on occasion.

Not all African Greys will talk. Some just don't want to. So getting a young bird that hasn't starting talking yet - well, you won't know if they are going to talk or not. The only way to 'guarantee' that your bird will talk, is to buy one that has already started talking. They will also decide what they want to say, not what you want them to say. They will pick up on any sounds, words, phrases they find interesting. You do have to be careful what you say around them. Having a swearing, potty-mouthed parrot is unpleasant.


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## Fredkas

@Rue yes i know they live long that is why i need to think of it seriously whether i will get one or not.

How can you know if they like your husband more than others? And are there any behaviors of your husband towards the parrot that make the parrot like your husband better?

Oh this some talk some not talk things is new for me. Thank you for the advice.


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## JoesMum

African Greys have very recently become CITES 1 and the global trade in them banned
http://wwf.panda.org/wwf_news/?279870/African-Grey-Parrots
http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKCN1220GJ

It may make obtaining one harder - it will need to be captive bred in your country, I think


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## G-stars

I honestly believe parrots actually NEED more attention then dogs. They are a very social animal and get bored quite easily/frequently. Especially the more intelligent ones such as the African grey and macaws.


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## Rue

Fredkas said:


> @Rue yes i know they live long that is why i need to think of it seriously whether i will get one or not.
> 
> How can you know if they like your husband more than others? And are there any behaviors of your husband towards the parrot that make the parrot like your husband better?
> 
> Oh this some talk some not talk things is new for me. Thank you for the advice.



They can be very affectionate. If my husband and I are both engaging with her, she will cuddle and coo with him - but scream and bite me.

If he is away (not in the house), she will cuddle and coo with me.

He is away with work a lot, and when he is home he mostly ignores her, so I don't think he is presenting behaviours that she prefers.

She can also be also unpredictable with him. She will bite him too if she goes (what I call) cuckoo. That certainly doesn't make him want to play with her more either.

She is okay with my youngest son, but absolutely hates my daughter. She tolerates my oldest son, but he ignores her too. Family dynamics are so complicated!


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## Team Gomberg

Parrots in the wild bond to their mate and stay together for life. Not to mention having the rest of the flock around. They are never alone. 
Then in captivity we want them to sit pretty in a cage and accept occasional interaction, when it's convenient for us. It won't work that way. You'll go nuts and so will the poor bird.

You can either:
-have a pair of birds that are bonded to each other and make it your job to provide them with a large, beautiful, natural habitat so you can simply have the pleasure of watching them (similar to keeping/observing tortoises).

-or have a single parrot that becomes your mate. Take it everywhere, never leave it's side, stay home..alot. And forget a social life that doesn't include your new partner. Better marry someone that feels the same, too. Or you'll have to choose.

I've had my own macaws (noticed I said had) and worked at a facility where we trained many macaws, cockatoos and greys. These birds had a full time staff dedicated to them. 

I loved being involved with birds and miss it dearly. My husband already knows that when he dies, I'm getting my macaw back..lol. But I'm serious, it's a full time gig. You need to know that going into it.


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## Tom

I love parrots. Been working with them professionally since the mid 80's. I was the dumb kid that got to tame down all the wild caught imports in the pet store so we could sell them. Boy did I learn the hard way!

I've raised a few grays and worked with several. They are a bit quirky. They can be nice, but they can also have weird moments of "flash" aggression out of nowhere. One of my hand raised babies put a hole through the skin under my lip one day when it was a couple years old for no apparent reason. That was the bird that taught me to stop kissing parrots and keep them away from my face.

The vocabulary and noise making ability of the gray is pretty neat, but their personalities are not my favorite. I like the cockatoos, but they can be neurotic teddy bears. Amazons are nice, but have a tendency to like one person and hate everyone else. Macaws are great, but that screaming...

All things considered, I think my favorite parrot species is the Jardine's Parrot. Poicephalus genus from Africa. Great little birds. Clownish, gregarious with everyone, seldom bite anyone for any reason, easy keepers, they make noises, but not obnoxious noises and not too loud either. Caiques have really great personalities too.

As far as time requirements, I think dogs and parrots are pretty similar. I work with both in a professional capacity every day. My views might be skewed by this fact, vs. the typical pet owner. Both are highly social and intelligent. Both need to be part of a group, either "flock" or "pack". Both need a good leader and need training and guidance from their people.

Here is one more thing. I can only call it anecdotal, but I have yet to find a singe exception, and I ask everybody. Birds that pluck, without exception so far, all had their wings clipped when they were fledging and before they learned to fly. So when you go to buy a bird, make sure it learned to fly when it was a baby before the wings were clipped. Its fine to clip the wings later in life, but fledgelings need to fly first.


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## Fredkas

Rue said:


> They can be very affectionate. If my husband and I are both engaging with her, she will cuddle and coo with him - but scream and bite me.
> 
> If he is away (not in the house), she will cuddle and coo with me.
> 
> He is away with work a lot, and when he is home he mostly ignores her, so I don't think he is presenting behaviours that she prefers.
> 
> She can also be also unpredictable with him. She will bite him too if she goes (what I call) cuckoo. That certainly doesn't make him want to play with her more either.
> 
> She is okay with my youngest son, but absolutely hates my daughter. She tolerates my oldest son, but he ignores her too. Family dynamics are so complicated!


Hmmm.. Quite unpredictable.



Team Gomberg said:


> Parrots in the wild bond to their mate and stay together for life. Not to mention having the rest of the flock around. They are never alone.
> Then in captivity we want them to sit pretty in a cage and accept occasional interaction, when it's convenient for us. It won't work that way. You'll go nuts and so will the poor bird.
> 
> You can either:
> -have a pair of birds that are bonded to each other and make it your job to provide them with a large, beautiful, natural habitat so you can simply have the pleasure of watching them (similar to keeping/observing tortoises).
> 
> -or have a single parrot that becomes your mate. Take it everywhere, never leave it's side, stay home..alot. And forget a social life that doesn't include your new partner. Better marry someone that feels the same, too. Or you'll have to choose.
> 
> I've had my own macaws (noticed I said had) and worked at a facility where we trained many macaws, cockatoos and greys. These birds had a full time staff dedicated to them.
> 
> I loved being involved with birds and miss it dearly. My husband already knows that when he dies, I'm getting my macaw back..lol. But I'm serious, it's a full time gig. You need to know that going into it.


Helps me a lot.



Tom said:


> I love parrots. Been working with them professionally since the mid 80's. I was the dumb kid that got to tame down all the wild caught imports in the pet store so we could sell them. Boy did I learn the hard way!
> 
> I've raised a few grays and worked with several. They are a bit quirky. They can be nice, but they can also have weird moments of "flash" aggression out of nowhere. One of my hand raised babies put a hole through the skin under my lip one day when it was a couple years old for no apparent reason. That was the bird that taught me to stop kissing parrots and keep them away from my face.
> 
> The vocabulary and noise making ability of the gray is pretty neat, but their personalities are not my favorite. I like the cockatoos, but they can be neurotic teddy bears. Amazons are nice, but have a tendency to like one person and hate everyone else. Macaws are great, but that screaming...
> 
> All things considered, I think my favorite parrot species is the Jardine's Parrot. Poicephalus genus from Africa. Great little birds. Clownish, gregarious with everyone, seldom bite anyone for any reason, easy keepers, they make noises, but not obnoxious noises and not too loud either. Caiques have really great personalities too.
> 
> As far as time requirements, I think dogs and parrots are pretty similar. I work with both in a professional capacity every day. My views might be skewed by this fact, vs. the typical pet owner. Both are highly social and intelligent. Both need to be part of a group, either "flock" or "pack". Both need a good leader and need training and guidance from their people.
> 
> Here is one more thing. I can only call it anecdotal, but I have yet to find a singe exception, and I ask everybody. Birds that pluck, without exception so far, all had their wings clipped when they were fledging and before they learned to fly. So when you go to buy a bird, make sure it learned to fly when it was a baby before the wings were clipped. Its fine to clip the wings later in life, but fledgelings need to fly first.


Man your answer is always satisfying. So thorough, that pluck things, you always do research towards a mystery, but i have questions. Can you collaborate more on cockatoo neurotic teddy bear behaviour. And how about macaw except his screaming? The taming and all. 
Let's say grey sometimes have unpredictable personality, how about cockatoos and macaw, they do it like that too? I own several cockatoos but as a child and i am not really learn their behavior. I will definitely check on the other parrots you mention but i am still no familiar with them.

All and all, my decision is i am not getting one NOW. I am sure will be getting one in the future when i can dedicated my time for the parrot. And now i think not one parrot. And from now on i am gathering all info i need about them.

Ah yes, one more thing. They poop and pee whenever wherever they want? Nothing we can do about it?


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## legan52

When I say our bird got depressed, I mean that he wasn't as chatty and didn't eat very well. He'd stubbornly throw his food on the ground instead of eating, even if it was his favorites. He's growing much more accustomed to me now that I quit my job to stay home with the baby, but I don't think he has the same affection. He will let me scratch his head, and if he's flying away from my husband (he hates going back in the cage), he will land on my arm. He used to sit on my husbands shoulder every morning to walk to the fridge for his food, and sometimes it would turn into a huge ordeal of him flying from my arm to the cage back and forth because he knew my husband would put him back. He's very very smart. I'm more cautious with him because he intimidates me. I know he's capable of snapping pretty hard so I'm always a bit worried. 

Overall, we do love him. It's my husbands pet from before dating, and he got it as a hand fed baby. We have 50+ years of care to look forward to. It's a challenge and they can be quirky but fun companions. They can also be annoying if you want quiet or to listen to a movie with no background noise. And who knows what words it will learn. They pick up the most interesting things!


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## Team Gomberg

The macaws have a loud, no, a very loud scream. Usually twice a day plus any additional excited periods. I'm a bit hard of hearing, so that aspect of macaw ownership didn't bother me much


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## Tom

Fredkas said:


> Man your answer is always satisfying. So thorough, that pluck things, you always do research towards a mystery, but i have questions. Can you collaborate more on cockatoo neurotic teddy bear behaviour. And how about macaw except his screaming? The taming and all.
> Let's say grey sometimes have unpredictable personality, how about cockatoos and macaw, they do it like that too? I own several cockatoos but as a child and i am not really learn their behavior. I will definitely check on the other parrots you mention but i am still no familiar with them.
> 
> All and all, my decision is i am not getting one NOW. I am sure will be getting one in the future when i can dedicated my time for the parrot. And now i think not one parrot. And from now on i am gathering all info i need about them.
> 
> Ah yes, one more thing. They poop and pee whenever wherever they want? Nothing we can do about it?



Some broad generalities:

The cockatoos can be super affectionate and love petting, but they can also throw little temper tantrums and have moments of explosive energy and excitedness. You can usually cuddle them and rub them under their wings and they are just great. But look out if one of "those" moods comes on. Just get out of the way.

Macaws are great. Each species has little behavioral generalities. They Hyacynths are super intelligent and thoughtful. Almost human like. They are my favorite. The scarlets can be very much like an amazon in that they only like one person and get aggressive with everyone else. The green wings make the best pets in my experience. They tend to be more even tempered, less angry, quieter, and just more "agreeable" in general. Blue and golds are sort of an in-between happy medium to all of the above. If raised, socialized and handled correctly they can be really good birds and not too aggressive with people. If raised incorrectly they can be pretty nasty.

They can be potty trained to some degree. They always make a big poopy before they fly, so if they know I'm going to fly them, I pull them out and immediately hold them over a trash can and say "go potty". They usually do, and then I'm good for a while. I've had several birds that would learn to hold it until I put them over a trash can and then they'd let loose. I had one bird that would tell me "go potty" when it was out with me and needed to go. Most of the time though, they just go whenever and wherever they feel like it. I have tile floors and I keep Lysol wipes all over the house. I have anywhere from three to six birds at my house at any given time.

I find the trend nowadays is to cookie the birds and use only positive reinforcement. This might initially appeal to the emotions of some people, but in the end it can led to serious trouble. Parrots need a leader and a boss first and foremost. I'm not saying to be mean to them, I'm saying be their boss first and their friend second. Use "cookies" and treat for training and rewarding good behavior, but if the parrot doesn't respect their person and their person's authority, they are generally not going to be a happy bird and all sorts of problems can ensue. Parrots are happiest when they have a strong confident leader and everyone knows who that leader is. They are usually very content to take a back seat, but if you don't get in the driver's seat and stay there, they will.


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## Fredkas

@legan52 oh it sounds like having a never grown up baby around.

@Team Gomberg i should watch video on youtube how they scream. It is such a joy everybody have experience with parrots and jump right in to share.

@Tom it do sounds like having dogs.
Where can i find a lot a lot of article for parrot? Are there any outdated care and info outside like tortoise debate or everything is the same? I don't want end up believing wrong information.
Thank you tom. You really are helpful as always.


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## Tom

I honestly don't know where to find info anymore. Most of what I read anymore is from "cookie" trainers. Positive reinforcement training is great and it works, but there is just more to it than that with a potentially aggressive, intelligent, highly social animal. Cookies and treats work great as long as the person is the top "bird" in the hierarchy. This status can be achieved many ways, and every parrot and situation is different. The most successful trainers who espouse the "positive reinforcement only" techniques are also masters at subtly gaining the upper hand in the dominance hierarchy. I find that most of them don't even know they are doing it. I get called in to help their "disciples" who don't have their master's ability to quietly assert dominance. In short: The best way I explain to other trainers to handle their parrots is to treat them like an old world monkey. Do that and you'll have a happy parrot and a great relationship. You know how to handle old world monkeys, right @Fredkas ??? 

I think most will agree that a pelleted diets as a base, supplemented with a wide variety of seeds and nuts, fruits, vegetables, and pastas is a good way to go. I give my birds a little of whatever I'm eating with the exception of meats, dairy, fried foods and sugary treats, of which I eat a lot… 

I suppose the wing clipping thing is controversial. There is no doubt that allowing them to fly in a safe way has benefit, but it also has risk. Whether the risk outweighs the benefit is an individual decision. I don't fault people who see it differently than I do, but I also have experience flying birds in crazy situations that most pet birds will never see. In my business we have four main types of birds we fly: Raptors, corvids, pigeons and parrots. Each of these four groups has its own little quirks and subtleties. I love working with all four types and have been lucky to work with a few oddballs that don't fit these stereotypical parameters too, like Turacos, vultures, and several smaller passerines like canaries, starlings, etc...


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## Rue

Everything is controversial! Just somethings more so than others. I have seen many people doing everything 'wrong' (with a lot of pet care, and other endeavors) and ending up with a great situation, and I have seen people do everything 'right' and end up with issues. I'm sure there are a host of reasons for every success or failure, but they are not necessarily obvious.

I agree that pellets are the way to go (and please, not the coloured pellets - all they do is add unnecessary chemicals to the diet and you end up with poop stains that don't clean up easily!). Mine get fresh nut mix once a week (in a separate bowl) - and I leave that in the cage until they pick through it all, otherwise they only eat their favourites and toss the rest on the floor. If I leave it in the cage, they will eat most of it over the course of a few days - more variety in their diet that way. I also supplement with whatever appropriate foods we are eating during the day. My parrots (I have 5 in total, including my daughter's 12 year old budgie and my son's 11 year old cockatiel) also get a little bit of junk food - and I mean a little bit. A bit of pizza crust if we're having pizza, a bit of a pretzel...it just adds fun to their day. However, I don't give them anything sugared (so no donuts or cookies or cake).

I clip wings with new birds, so they can't fly while they are getting used to their new home. They are more dependent on me that way, and I build trust during that 'training' period. Then I let the wing feathers grow back. I think they are healthier if they can fly (both mentally and physically) - but then you need safeguards in place so they can't hurt themselves or fly out an open door/window. Having said that, my Amazon - has no desire to fly. She prefers taxi service. My African Grey has plucked herself and currently can't fly, so she's grounded herself. If you do clip, never do a severe clip, they need enough feathers left in place so they can at least glide down to the floor.


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## Tom

Rue said:


> Everything is controversial! Just somethings more so than others. I have seen many people doing everything 'wrong' (with a lot of pet care, and other endeavors) and ending up with a great situation, and I have seen people do everything 'right' and end up with issues. I'm sure there are a host of reasons for every success or failure, but they are not necessarily obvious.
> 
> I agree that pellets are the way to go (and please, not the coloured pellets - all they do is add unnecessary chemicals to the diet and you end up with poop stains that don't clean up easily!). Mine get fresh nut mix once a week (in a separate bowl) - and I leave that in the cage until they pick through it all, otherwise they only eat their favourites and toss the rest on the floor. If I leave it in the cage, they will eat most of it over the course of a few days - more variety in their diet that way. I also supplement with whatever appropriate foods we are eating during the day. My parrots (I have 5 in total, including my daughter's 12 year old budgie and my son's 11 year old cockatiel) also get a little bit of junk food - and I mean a little bit. A bit of pizza crust if we're having pizza, a bit of a pretzel...it just adds fun to their day. However, I don't give them anything sugared (so no donuts or cookies or cake).
> 
> I clip wings with new birds, so they can't fly while they are getting used to their new home. They are more dependent on me that way, and I build trust during that 'training' period. Then I let the wing feathers grow back. I think they are healthier if they can fly (both mentally and physically) - but then you need safeguards in place so they can't hurt themselves or fly out an open door/window. Having said that, my Amazon - has no desire to fly. She prefers taxi service. My African Grey has plucked herself and currently can't fly, so she's grounded herself. If you do clip, never do a severe clip, they need enough feathers left in place so they can at least glide down to the floor.



Funny. I give them pizza crust too, but I never considered that "junk" food. 

I agree with the initial wing clipping technique for a new bird. I used to do that with all the WC birds back in the old days. They instantly became a lot nicer when I took their flight away. But I never do this for babies. I like a weanling to fly for at least a few months before I'll clip. Of course with a baby that you just finished had-feeding, aggression issues are not common.

I've also worked with a few amazons that didn't want to fly, and that is very common with the macaws. I've had macaws that thought they were going to die when cast off of a hand. They had no idea what those appendages to the sides of their bodies were for. I find a tremendous sense of satisfaction in teaching a formerly cage-bound bird that it can fly.

So that's my question to you: Do you clip freshly weaned young birds, or are you talking about older birds that come into your care?

And also: I think I asked before, but do you know if your gray was clipped as a baby before it learned to fly?


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## Rue

I have not clipped any freshly weaned young birds myself. However, our white-capped pionus (from a breeder) and the budgie (from the bulk-budgie bin at the pet store) were clipped when we got them. Both learned to fly after their feathers grew back in. The cockatiel (hand-reared, but from the pet store too) was not clipped. 

The Amazon came to us as a 13-year old bird. Her wings were clipped before we got her. She actually can fly if she really wants to - but it's sorta like watching the Hindenburg. The Grey was 3 years old and I have little idea of her previous history - other than she was relegated to the laundry room with little or no positive interaction. That's when she started to pluck. She was able to fly when we got her, but she can't fly at the moment. She does let her feathers grow back in once in a while...and I get hopeful. Then she has a bad day...and we're back to naked chicken couture.


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## Tom

Rue said:


> Then she has a bad day...and we're back to naked chicken couture.



You have my sympathy. Seen it many times.


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## jockma

@Rue I "share" a conure with my uncle that overpreens and occasionally plucks. He has an anxiety disorder, no other way to describe it. He was born this way. The breeder (who was excellent) even warned us about it, none of the other conures had this problem.

It was hard at first but I like to think about how good his quality of life is. Yeah, he gets anxious and overpreens to cope, he gets REALLY anxious and overpreens and plucks a bit, but he's happy and healthy otherwise and he's in the best situation he can be in. I'm sure the same can be said about your girl.

It's just sad that birds that went through trauma and neglect and used plucking as a coping mechanism for the stress and loneliness struggle to break that coping mechanism when they're adopted and their life improves. But it did improve! I'm sure your girl is happy and appreciative of the good care you give her in her own way, bald or not.


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## Tom

jockma said:


> It's just sad that birds that went through trauma and neglect and used plucking as a coping mechanism for the stress and loneliness struggle to break that coping mechanism when they're adopted and their life improves. But it did improve! I'm sure your girl is happy and appreciative of the good care you give her in her own way, bald or not.



Don't want to ruffle any feathers, but trauma, neglect, stress and loneliness are not the cause of plucking. The cause is not known and every theory that has been proposed has been refuted with many cases that demonstrate otherwise.

I repeat what I said earlier in the thread: I have yet to see any parrot that learned to fly as a fledgeling pluck. It might exist, but if it does, it is rare. I've raised many birds, including a few that plucked, and this seems to be universal. No bird that I let fly for its first few months after fledging has ever plucked. Every plucker that I've seen, and the person knew its history, was clipped as soon as it could fly. The theory I've heard proposed is that certain neural connections happen in the brain with flight and controlling one's self while airborne that cannot happen any other way. If these neural connections are not made in a young parrots brain, they will sometimes pluck themselves later in life. Often the plucking doesn't start until maturity at 3-4 years old. If these neural connections are made in the young bird, they will not pluck themselves later on in life, whether they are clipped or not.

This thread is making me want to research this topic again and see if anything new has been learned. A good friend of mine is a board certified avian vet. I'm going to call him and ask!


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## Fredkas

Tom said:


> I honestly don't know where to find info anymore. Most of what I read anymore is from "cookie" trainers. Positive reinforcement training is great and it works, but there is just more to it than that with a potentially aggressive, intelligent, highly social animal. Cookies and treats work great as long as the person is the top "bird" in the hierarchy. This status can be achieved many ways, and every parrot and situation is different. The most successful trainers who espouse the "positive reinforcement only" techniques are also masters at subtly gaining the upper hand in the dominance hierarchy. I find that most of them don't even know they are doing it. I get called in to help their "disciples" who don't have their master's ability to quietly assert dominance. In short: The best way I explain to other trainers to handle their parrots is to treat them like an old world monkey. Do that and you'll have a happy parrot and a great relationship. You know how to handle old world monkeys, right @Fredkas ???
> 
> I think most will agree that a pelleted diets as a base, supplemented with a wide variety of seeds and nuts, fruits, vegetables, and pastas is a good way to go. I give my birds a little of whatever I'm eating with the exception of meats, dairy, fried foods and sugary treats, of which I eat a lot…
> 
> I suppose the wing clipping thing is controversial. There is no doubt that allowing them to fly in a safe way has benefit, but it also has risk. Whether the risk outweighs the benefit is an individual decision. I don't fault people who see it differently than I do, but I also have experience flying birds in crazy situations that most pet birds will never see. In my business we have four main types of birds we fly: Raptors, corvids, pigeons and parrots. Each of these four groups has its own little quirks and subtleties. I love working with all four types and have been lucky to work with a few oddballs that don't fit these stereotypical parameters too, like Turacos, vultures, and several smaller passerines like canaries, starlings, etc...


I am seriously don't know what is old world monkey. i have to google it, and sure don't know how to handle a monkey at all. i know how to handle dogs.. and of course tortoises 
Now the only concern about parrot is their poop, i still thinking whether i can handle it.


And here comes the other research from tom "the plucking"
But seriously this is good if we can know the exact real cause.

I am going off topic, bladder stone for tortoise tom, you better research this deeper, i call you in one thread. you should read it.


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## Tom

Fredkas said:


> I am seriously don't know what is old world monkey. i have to google it, and sure don't know how to handle a monkey at all.



You know… Old World Monkeys. Macaques, baboons, langurs, mangabeys, etc… Handle your parrot just like you'd handle one of those monkeys.


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## Fredkas

Tom said:


> You know… Old World Monkeys. Macaques, baboons, langurs, mangabeys, etc… Handle your parrot just like you'd handle one of those monkeys.


I would never go near one of those. which means i will never go near parrot?


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## jockma

@Tom No worries, no feathers were ruffled.  Yes, I know mine did not experience any trauma or other external stress but he plucks. I associate it with stress and trauma because I know many people with rescue cockatoos and all of those cockatoos pluck, mine had a happy life so I'm sure there are other factors.

I did not know there was much research behind it. All of the birds coming from this breeder were full-flight, but I did clip his wings once he moved to a part of the house that had many windows. He was already plucking at the time, however, so I don't know...maybe they clipped their wings when they were younger to minimize risks and then let their feathers grow out later on.

I noticed mine prefers to pluck his WINGS. It began as overpreening, then he plucked his wings. Not a lot, but enough to have "bald" patches here and there. He plucks his chest sometimes as well. But it waxes and wanes. His feathers are almost all in now. Anyone ever have experience with a plucker that prefers wings?


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## Speedy-1

*Hi Fred , I know I am jumping in sort of late here , just found this thread !  If I were going to give you advice I would tell you Grey's and Cockatoo's are really not "first time birds" . I would suggest something bit smaller , perhaps a green cheek conure especially if you aren't sure if you have the time . Now you have my 2 cents also ! *


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## cryspow

Your tortious is so cute I love him


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## Fredkas

Speedy-1 said:


> *Hi Fred , I know I am jumping in sort of late here , just found this thread !  If I were going to give you advice I would tell you Grey's and Cockatoo's are really not "first time birds" . I would suggest something bit smaller , perhaps a green cheek conure especially if you aren't sure if you have the time . Now you have my 2 cents also ! *


I am not really a first time if we talk about birds and parrots. my family own several cockatoos in several separate time period. i saw and touch parkeets and love birds a lot. my family even breed love birds once.
But grey will be the first time. still thanks a lot for the opinion.
But hey, i decided it. yes you are right, my limitation is time. and that factor alone make me decided not getting any parrot soon.
Another but, i am growing passion towards parrots. This should be in the future although the time still unknown (i will only get parrots if i am sure 100% i can give them my time), i will own a macaw, i am locking my target lol, a blue and gold macaw, or green wing macaw.
Grey, nope, their personality is a bit tricky.
Cockatoos, too demanding, and i saw several, not really special to me anymore.
Macaw, this is great, scarlet gorgeous, but the personality, i am towards bng or green wing.
Another smaller parrots, hey... i love sulcata for a reason, they get big! you know what i mean 

Do you have any parrots? come on talk about them a bit.


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## ZEROPILOT

Do you have a separate bird room in your house?
My wife had an African grey for a while and it made the sound that our alarm does when it arms or disarms so well that I kept getting out of bed to check on it. He also spoke a lot. Unfortunately for us it was all unflattering terms and cursive language.........And in Spanish. And unprovoked.
He loved knawing on items meant for him as well as anything else he could grab and loved being outside of his cage so that he could explore and terrorize the other occupants of the house. He also loved tossing food items as far as he could. Sometimes he fed the dog and the dog would sit and beg for the bird.
The bird hated me and eventually we moved him forward to a person with a lot of parrot experience. And parrot patience. .
My wife still has her bird room. Now with more peaceful canaries and Finches. But with quite a bit of crown molding and window frames that still remind us of "BO" because they are chewed up.
If we had to do it all over again I think I would have to build her a very large walk in aviary outside.
My parrot experience was probably like that of a Sulcata owner with a 20 gallon fish tank....Soon to be overwhelmed.


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## Speedy-1

Fredkas said:


> I am not really a first time if we talk about birds and parrots. my family own several cockatoos in several separate time period. i saw and touch parkeets and love birds a lot. my family even breed love birds once.
> But grey will be the first time. still thanks a lot for the opinion.
> But hey, i decided it. yes you are right, my limitation is time. and that factor alone make me decided not getting any parrot soon.
> Another but, i am growing passion towards parrots. This should be in the future although the time still unknown (i will only get parrots if i am sure 100% i can give them my time), i will own a macaw, i am locking my target lol, a blue and gold macaw, or green wing macaw.
> Grey, nope, their personality is a bit tricky.
> Cockatoos, too demanding, and i saw several, not really special to me anymore.
> Macaw, this is great, scarlet gorgeous, but the personality, i am towards bng or green wing.
> Another smaller parrots, hey... i love sulcata for a reason, they get big! you know what i mean
> 
> Do you have any parrots? come on talk about them a bit.


 
*I understand , I just wouldn't have the room for the largest parrot so, I went for the smallest !  They are called "pocket parrots" and are smaller than the lovebirds you mentioned ! Their closest relatives are the Amazon parrots . They are very smart and trainable , fair talkers , and cannot screech . This is Paco , my wifes fav . *


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## ZEROPILOT

Speedy-1 said:


> *I understand , I just wouldn't have the room for the largest parrot so, I went for the smallest !  They are called "pocket parrots" and are smaller than the lovebirds you mentioned ! Their closest relatives are the Amazon parrots . They are very smart and trainable , fair talkers , and cannot screech . This is Paco , my wifes fav . *
> 
> View attachment 192292


He/she looks just like the wild parrots that live here in south Florida...Except they are bright lime green.


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## Speedy-1

ZEROPILOT said:


> He/she looks just like the wild parrots that live here in south Florida...Except they are bright lime green.


 *She is a hybrid , their natural color is that green , like her boyfriend Taco ! *


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## ZEROPILOT

Speedy-1 said:


> *She is a hybrid , their natural color is that green , like her boyfriend Taco ! *
> 
> View attachment 192294


Very nice looking birds and smaller than I thought.


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## Fredkas

ZEROPILOT said:


> Do you have a separate bird room in your house?
> My wife had an African grey for a while and it made the sound that our alarm does when it arms or disarms so well that I kept getting out of bed to check on it. He also spoke a lot. Unfortunately for us it was all unflattering terms and cursive language.........And in Spanish. And unprovoked.
> He loved knawing on items meant for him as well as anything else he could grab and loved being outside of his cage so that he could explore and terrorize the other occupants of the house. He also loved tossing food items as far as he could. Sometimes he fed the dog and the dog would sit and beg for the bird.
> The bird hated me and eventually we moved him forward to a person with a lot of parrot experience. And parrot patience. .
> My wife still has her bird room. Now with more peaceful canaries and Finches. But with quite a bit of crown molding and window frames that still remind us of "BO" because they are chewed up.
> If we had to do it all over again I think I would have to build her a very large walk in aviary outside.
> My parrot experience was probably like that of a Sulcata owner with a 20 gallon fish tank....Soon to be overwhelmed.


I read your story and this is something that make me doubt also, i want a well manner parrot. 
It's ok, i will comeback to research all those when i am sure i can give them time. now i postponed all this thought.
Or maybe i just adopt one aldabra and enjoy it


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## Speedy-1

Fredkas said:


> I read your story and this is something that make me doubt also, i want a well manner parrot.
> It's ok, i will comeback to research all those when i am sure i can give them time. now i postponed all this thought.
> Or maybe i just adopt one aldabra and enjoy it


 *Well if you want a well mannered parrot you should have said so , how about my Indian Ringneck ? He is very well behaved ! *


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## kathyth

I had an African Grey in the last for 18 years. They're very much like having a child. Very intelligent and very emotional. They require a great deal of attention, training, foraging opportunities, toys, constructive out of cage time, baths, sunshine, proper diet. In those days, many parrots wings were clipped, and people were talking about allowing parrots to fly. Despite my best efforts, she did develop some neurosis and began to pluck her feathers. After medical issues were ruled out, I was told it was like " nail biting". Once it started, it was hard to stop. Our parrots in captivity aren't flying miles a day, they generally don't have a true " flock", aren't raising babies and live with a variety of fears.
This parrot died in 2005.
Last year I purchased a Grey from a great Breeder in Texas. She was fledged and unfortunately her wings were trimmed before she was shipped.
I have allowed her wings to grow out. we had a lot of work to do around the house, to prepare for safe flying. All blinds were changed, to prevent her nails getting caught. Vertical blinds were hung on all downstairs windows. All mirrors were taken down.
When she is out to fly the following check list is reviewed:
Doors locked, all blinds are pulled down and partially closed, bathroom doors closed, sink water is drained, make sure the stove is off, dogs water bowl is covered, flat screen T.V.s are turned on, ceiling fans are off. I'm sure there is more.
Her cage is centrally located in the house, so she is part of the family. We generally eat our meals with her, as her flock would do. She is taken outside twice daily for walks in a stroller with the dogs. This parrot has traveled, in a truck and travel trailer over 10,000 miles, in the last year. We're traveling at this moment. It's good for them to get out and see things.




We don't cook with teflon and don't use aresols in the house.
We're very careful with our reinforcements, as one can easily encourage an undesirable behavior, by accident. That can be a nightmare. 
Dogs are so much easier, but I take great joy in having a parrot in the house. She's like our child.


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## ZEROPILOT

You're just the kind of person for a parrot. Patient and with the time it takes to do things correctly.
As for my wife and I, we had no idea that one would need so much attention.
I think that most people are not aware.


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## Fredkas

I don't know they need so much attention too. luckily i have this forum and i asked. i am happy i can hold my thought. until now, i don't know dog or parrot need more attention, but sure both of them need a whole lot more than tortoises.


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## Speedy-1

kathyth said:


> I had an African Grey in the last for 18 years. They're very much like having a child. Very intelligent and very emotional. They require a great deal of attention, training, foraging opportunities, toys, constructive out of cage time, baths, sunshine, proper diet. In those days, many parrots wings were clipped, and people were talking about allowing parrots to fly. Despite my best efforts, she did develop some neurosis and began to pluck her feathers. After medical issues were ruled out, I was told it was like " nail biting". Once it started, it was hard to stop. Our parrots in captivity aren't flying miles a day, they generally don't have a true " flock", aren't raising babies and live with a variety of fears.
> This parrot died in 2005.
> Last year I purchased a Grey from a great Breeder in Texas. She was fledged and unfortunately her wings were trimmed before she was shipped.
> I have allowed her wings to grow out. we had a lot of work to do around the house, to prepare for safe flying. All blinds were changed, to prevent her nails getting caught. Vertical blinds were hung on all downstairs windows. All mirrors were taken down.
> When she is out to fly the following check list is reviewed:
> Doors locked, all blinds are pulled down and partially closed, bathroom doors closed, sink water is drained, make sure the stove is off, dogs water bowl is covered, flat screen T.V.s are turned on, ceiling fans are off. I'm sure there is more.
> Her cage is centrally located in the house, so she is part of the family. We generally eat our meals with her, as her flock would do. She is taken outside twice daily for walks in a stroller with the dogs. This parrot has traveled, in a truck and travel trailer over 10,000 miles, in the last year. We're traveling at this moment. It's good for them to get out and see things.
> View attachment 192449
> View attachment 192450
> View attachment 192451
> 
> We don't cook with teflon and don't use aresols in the house.
> We're very careful with our reinforcements, as one can easily encourage an undesirable behavior, by accident. That can be a nightmare.
> Dogs are so much easier, but I take great joy in having a parrot in the house. She's like our child.


 
*Sounds like you have things well squared away and she is lucky to have you ! This has turned out to be a great thread , so that potential parrot owners can get some conception of how "labor intensive" owning parrots is ! Like anything else , you get out of it what you are willing to put into it. It has its rewards as I am sure you know. We are lucky , we are retired and have the time to devote to our pets !




*


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## Yvonne G

cryspow said:


> Your tortious is so cute I love him



Huh?


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## Yvonne G

Speedy-1 said:


> *She is a hybrid , their natural color is that green , like her boyfriend Taco ! *
> 
> View attachment 192294



Actually, that's a parrotlet (Forpus coelestis).


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## Yvonne G

kathyth said:


> I had an African Grey in the last for 18 years. They're very much like having a child. Very intelligent and very emotional. They require a great deal of attention, training, foraging opportunities, toys, constructive out of cage time, baths, sunshine, proper diet. In those days, many parrots wings were clipped, and people were talking about allowing parrots to fly. Despite my best efforts, she did develop some neurosis and began to pluck her feathers. After medical issues were ruled out, I was told it was like " nail biting". Once it started, it was hard to stop. Our parrots in captivity aren't flying miles a day, they generally don't have a true " flock", aren't raising babies and live with a variety of fears.
> This parrot died in 2005.
> Last year I purchased a Grey from a great Breeder in Texas. She was fledged and unfortunately her wings were trimmed before she was shipped.
> I have allowed her wings to grow out. we had a lot of work to do around the house, to prepare for safe flying. All blinds were changed, to prevent her nails getting caught. Vertical blinds were hung on all downstairs windows. All mirrors were taken down.
> When she is out to fly the following check list is reviewed:
> Doors locked, all blinds are pulled down and partially closed, bathroom doors closed, sink water is drained, make sure the stove is off, dogs water bowl is covered, flat screen T.V.s are turned on, ceiling fans are off. I'm sure there is more.
> Her cage is centrally located in the house, so she is part of the family. We generally eat our meals with her, as her flock would do. She is taken outside twice daily for walks in a stroller with the dogs. This parrot has traveled, in a truck and travel trailer over 10,000 miles, in the last year. We're traveling at this moment. It's good for them to get out and see things.
> View attachment 192449
> View attachment 192450
> View attachment 192451
> 
> We don't cook with teflon and don't use aresols in the house.
> We're very careful with our reinforcements, as one can easily encourage an undesirable behavior, by accident. That can be a nightmare.
> Dogs are so much easier, but I take great joy in having a parrot in the house. She's like our child.




I'm very impressed, Kathy. My daughter's african grey gets nowhere near that consideration (shame, shame).


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## Speedy-1

Yvonne G said:


> Actually, that's a parrotlet (Forpus coelestis).


*Actually , your right ! here is a little more information about genus Forpus for anyone who might be interested in minutiae ! Thanks so much for pointing that information out !*

_Forpus_ parrots, also known as parrotlets, are sexually dimorphic. Males have somewhat dull colors but have a bright blue streak on their wings and eye. Females have bright colors and do not have the blue on the wing. They may or may not have it on the eye. Some parrotlet species are exceptions; but it is usually easy to tell them apart.


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## Yvonne G

Only reason I said that was because in the '50's folks in Peru and Equador would rob the nests of the local Brotogeris, hand feed the babies and carry them around in their pockets prior to shipping them to the U.S. as "hand tamed pocket parrots." The brotogeris is a little bigger than your parrotlet, but every bit as charming. I raised them for many years.


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## Speedy-1

Yvonne G said:


> Only reason I said that was because in the '50's folks in Peru and Equador would rob the nests of the local Brotogeris, hand feed the babies and carry them around in their pockets prior to shipping thwners areem to the U.S. as "hand tamed pocket parrots." The brotogeris is a little bigger than your parrotlet, but every bit as charming. I raised them for many years.


 *There are also quite a few wild caught parrotlets still coming in from Southern Mexico and being sold as captive bred birds . I guess it has pros and cons ! Pros are introducing new breeders , cons might be that possibly first time parrot owners are attempting to tame a wild bird and get a bad introduction to the world of parrots ! It can be done , but is a lot more time consuming and may give a bad name to genus Forpus !*


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## kathyth

Yvonne G said:


> I'm very impressed, Kathy. My daughter's african grey gets nowhere near that consideration (shame, shame).



Thanks Yvonne!! I have to say, being retired allows me to do all of this. If I was working, I'd certainly do my best but there's no way it could be this good.


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## OliveW

A pet store in a nearby town has an African Grey that is not for sale, he just hangs out there during the day with his owner.

He only has feathers on his head, the rest of him looks like one of those squeaky chicken toys for dogs. I didn't even notice him there until one day I was looking at a fat frog and someone behind me said, "Hey you!" I turned around and this the parrot said, "Yeah, you! Get over here!"


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## ZEROPILOT

Kelly gave her African Grey chicken wings a few times.
It felt unsettling.


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