# Russian Tortoise Scutes seperating



## KraftyKay13 (May 2, 2017)

Hi all! I purchased two female Russian tortoises just over a year ago, and I'm concerned about the shell on one of them (Gabi). When I got her, she had white lines/gaps between her scutes (picture below). I didn't notice it at the time and they weren't too bad. I'm not sure what kind of care they received from their previous owner.





(Taken last May -- about a month after I got her)

Since then, it looks like her shell has just gotten worse












(Pictures taken today)

Do you know what the problem is? Is there anything I can do to help her shell? I could take her to the vet, but would like it to be a last resort (I'm not sure where the nearest exotic pet vet is, and I can't afford it at the moment). I tried giving them more calcium and changing their UVB bulb, but I don't think that's helped too much.

A little more information: I use coco coir as a substrate (I used to mix in sand, but changed it a few months ago) and their basking spot gets to around 90 degrees during the day. I feed them a variety of store bought greens (spring mix, red and green leaf lettuce, radicchio, endive, etc.) and put calcium powder on their food a few times a week. I'm not sure what the humidity is in their enclosure, but I'm pretty sure it's not quite high enough. I try to give them outside time as much as possible. I'm also not sure how old Gabi is. 

Thank you so much in advance!!


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## Taylor T. (May 2, 2017)

I've never seen anything quite like that. Are they at all loose if you touch them? How close is the heat lamp? You could try and put some cold pressed coconut oil on it but it may not be of any help here.


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## tortdad (May 2, 2017)

Those look like they're getting ready to pop off. Temperature was the first thing that came into mind. What type of heat lamp are you using and how far away from the tort is it? Only time I've seen that is when one was burned from a lamp and the scutes started popping off exposing the bone beneath. 

I'm not saying that's what happened to yours, just similar to the other one I've seen.


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## KraftyKay13 (May 2, 2017)

tortdad said:


> Those look like they're getting ready to pop off. Temperature was the first thing that came into mind. What type of heat lamp are you using and how far away from the tort is it? Only time I've seen that is when one was burned from a lamp and the scutes started popping off exposing the bone beneath.
> 
> I'm not saying that's what happened to yours, just similar to the other one I've seen.



They still seem pretty secure. I'm using a 100W 110V Ceramic Heat Emitter (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00IOBZT80/?tag=exoticpetnetw-20) in a ZooMed Combo Deep Dome Lamp fixture; it's about 12-13" away from the substrate


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## Taylor T. (May 2, 2017)

That type of bulb does not produce any UVB. Is that the only bulb you have used while you have had him? If so, it may have something to do with the scutes coming off. What you need to produce UVB is a tube florescent bulb,(not the coil or hoop type) or a mercury vapor bulb.


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## tortdad (May 2, 2017)

Whatever it is it started before you got her


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## KraftyKay13 (May 2, 2017)

Taylor T. said:


> That type of bulb does not produce any UVB. Is that the only bulb you have used while you have had him? If so, it may have something to do with the scutes coming off. What you need to produce UVB is a tube florescent bulb,(not the coil or hoop type) or a mercury vapor bulb.



I also have a UVB coil bulb (I replaced it a few months ago). Do you think having a coil bulb instead of a tube bulb would cause a problem like this?


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## KraftyKay13 (May 2, 2017)

tortdad said:


> Whatever it is it started before you got her



Yes, I do think this started before I got her, but I didn't notice when I bought her and didn't think to ask her previous owner


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## tortdad (May 2, 2017)

KraftyKay13 said:


> I also have a UVB coil bulb (I replaced it a few months ago). Do you think having a coil bulb instead of a tube bulb would cause a problem like this?


 The only problems I've seen caused by coil bulbs is eye issues. Those coil bulbs aren't good for torts


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## Kasia (May 3, 2017)

tortdad said:


> The only problems I've seen caused by coil bulbs is eye issues. Those coil bulbs aren't good for torts


I agree. I would try to get more dark greens/weeds to eat for them. Diet is crucial. You will not stop the process but you can slow it down. Do you soak her daily? If not try. Hydration will help, her shell looks dry. Another question do you keep them together?


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## Bee62 (May 3, 2017)

How big is the enclosure of your torts ? Can you post some pictures ?
100 Watt is a lot for a heat bulb and it makes high temperature.
How high or low is the humidity in the enclosure of your torts ?
For me it looks like that the high warmth of the heat bulb dried out the keratine of the shell.
High temps in the enclosure of any tort species and low humidity causes such issues.


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## teresaf (May 3, 2017)

@Yvonne G
May be of some help or know who to ask for help. Hopefully she's not too busy to answer... she's in high demand.... : )


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## GingerLove (May 3, 2017)

Aren't those just growth lines? My tortoise had something similar and then the scutes began to spread further, revealing a nice growth line. Her scutes are not at all loose. Isn't this normal for a tortoise?


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## Kasia (May 3, 2017)

GingerLove said:


> Aren't those just growth lines? My tortoise had something similar and then the scutes began to spread further, revealing a nice growth line. Her scutes are not at all loose. Isn't this normal for a tortoise?


Those are very deep growth lines, yes... but they aren't normal. Previous owners neglected this tort and it's shell isn't in good condition.


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## KraftyKay13 (May 3, 2017)

Bee62 said:


> How big is the enclosure of your torts ? Can you post some pictures ?
> 100 Watt is a lot for a heat bulb and it makes high temperature.
> How high or low is the humidity in the enclosure of your torts ?
> For me it looks like that the high warmth of the heat bulb dried out the keratine of the shell.
> High temps in the enclosure of any tort species and low humidity causes such issues.



Here's their enclosure, not sure about humidity. I live in Nevada, so our humidity isn't normally very high. Do I need to buy a new heat lamp or would raising up the lamp I have now work?


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## KraftyKay13 (May 3, 2017)

Kasia said:


> I agree. I would try to get more dark greens/weeds to eat for them. Diet is crucial. You will not stop the process but you can slow it down. Do you soak her daily? If not try. Hydration will help, her shell looks dry. Another question do you keep them together?



What types of dark greens/weeds should I feed them? Are there any grocery story options or do I need to grow them myself? I soak her once a week. I do house them together (*I am well aware of the risks* that come from it. They were housed together when I bought them, and I haven't noticed any problems yet. They both eat and bask just fine. I am prepared to separate them if I notice any problems)


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## Kasia (May 3, 2017)

KraftyKay13 said:


> What types of dark greens/weeds should I feed them? Are there any grocery story options or do I need to grow them myself? I soak her once a week. I do house them together (*I am well aware of the risks* that come from it. They were housed together when I bought them, and I haven't noticed any problems yet. They both eat and bask just fine. I am prepared to separate them if I notice any problems)


In this forum section you will find all the information you need. In link below weed names you will like to feed to your torts with 
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/russian-tortoise-care-sheet.80698/
Loads of different stuff to choose form. If you are not sure how a given weed looks like or is something save to feed
http://www.thetortoisetable.org.uk/plant-database/viewplants/a-z/#.WQom96UwjqA
you can check in link above. 
If you don't have an access to natural field where they grow you can find some of the weeds in stores like e g. dandelions or grow them yourself like kale, clover and tons of others.
Of course store lambs lettuce, rucola, chicory, radaccio... are OK to feed as a part of a diet not whole diet.


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## Taylor T. (May 3, 2017)

Can they get up and down that ramp easily? It looks rather steep.


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## teresaf (May 3, 2017)

I'm going to suggest something weird. Perhaps the tortoise fell off the ramp and hit just right that it cracked the already weakened shell? Steepness isn't an issue as long as they can get up it but it looks like it's a tipping hazard and maybe even dangerous? @Yvonne G


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## Bee62 (May 3, 2017)

KraftyKay13 said:


> Here's their enclosure, not sure about humidity. I live in Nevada, so our humidity isn't normally very high. Do I need to buy a new heat lamp or would raising up the lamp I have now work?



Can you measure the temperature on the carapax of your tort while he is basking under the heat lamp ?
When the temps on the shell is over 100 F it is to hot and the shell of your tort could be damaged.
If it is too hot under the basking lamp, buy and use another with less watt ( 50, or 75 Watt ).
Buy an hygrometer and measure the humidity in the enclosure of your tort. Even a russian tortoise needs some humidity level. With a flower sprayer you can "make some rain" every day. Sprinkle the tortoise with warm water too. This humidity helps that the shell does not get`s to dry. A too dry shell can
get cracks.


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## teresaf (May 3, 2017)

If you cover all the mesh areas with plexiglass and cover open top you can turn that area into aore humid area. Remember though. Trapping heat raises temp too so monitor the temps as changes are made. Don't freak. most of us have had to make multiple enclosures...before we finally got it right.


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## KraftyKay13 (May 3, 2017)

They seem to do ok with the ramp. There's a piece of wood I can remove to make it less steep, so I'll probably do that.
I ordered a new heat emitter from Amazon (50 watts) which should be here Saturday, so hopefully that helps!
I also want to say a huge thank you to everyone for all your wonderful help, I really appreciate it!!


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## Eduardo Hernandez (May 3, 2017)

KraftyKay13 said:


> They seem to do ok with the ramp. There's a piece of wood I can remove to make it less steep, so I'll probably do that.
> I ordered a new heat emitter from Amazon (50 watts) which should be here Saturday, so hopefully that helps!
> I also want to say a huge thank you to everyone for all your wonderful help, I really appreciate it!!



They're being housed together? Have you noticed any sort of fighting/bickering? I'm not sure if that could've made it worse though.


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## KraftyKay13 (May 3, 2017)

Eduardo Hernandez said:


> They're being housed together? Have you noticed any sort of fighting/bickering? I'm not sure if that could've made it worse though.



Yes, they are housed together, but I haven't seen any bickering/bullying/fighting


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## Bee62 (May 4, 2017)

The shell of your tortoise looks very dry. Please take my advice and give your torts more humidity.


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## KraftyKay13 (May 4, 2017)

Bee62 said:


> The shell of your tortoise looks very dry. Please take my advice and give your torts more humidity.



I certainly will, thank you for your advice! I ordered a flower sprayer from Amazon (along with a new heat emitter). Would you recommend putting any oils or creams on her shell?


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## KraftyKay13 (May 4, 2017)

One more question: do I need to get the dirt out from her "growth lines"? If so, how? I've tried gently scrubbing them with a toothbrush while she's soaking, but that didn't seem to work very well


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## Smush (May 4, 2017)

KraftyKay13 said:


> I certainly will, thank you for your advice! I ordered a flower sprayer from Amazon (along with a new heat emitter). Would you recommend putting any oils or creams on her shell?


I recommend organic no additives coconut oils  You can get this almost anywhere.


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## Bee62 (May 4, 2017)

I only would treat the small growth lines with *few* coconut oil not the whole shell.
To much oil could make the shell impermeable against humidity, and you don`t have to remove dirt from the growth lines before.


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## Taylor T. (May 7, 2017)

Any updates? Is the coconut oil working?


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