# Diminishing thickness?



## jeff kushner (Nov 5, 2021)

Yes, an effective "hook" to draw the reader in...okay admit it was cheezy but.................now that you're here....

I'm talking about skin thickness and the seemingly thinning of human skin in general. It still seems pretty strong and flexible in person but online, skin has seemingly gotten very, very thin!

Everyone here has seen someone get twisted online. People will even demand that no one criticize them in any way...whoa? We all see it everywhere today online. Anger, hate, accusations....all in a pretend world yet people get physically affected! Don't they know it's make-believe?

Being Objective though....
There have been antagonists via writing throughout human history which is wonderful because it gives the sociologists a baseline to see the exponential progression of incidence. Let's not pretend though that the Keyboard warrior hasn't existed even before what's his name first invented the printing press. Whitney, no that was the gin, ...a German guy.....dang I hate when this happens. 3 syllables..........GUTENBURG (yup, without google too)! Sorry, I get sidetracked sometimes. 

Anyway, do people seem to be so much more sensitive to any kind of challenge or conflict today? Do they seem less equipped to handle important decisions? 

Or, it's it just my perception?

jeff


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## Maggie3fan (Nov 5, 2021)

jeff kushner said:


> Yes, an effective "hook" to draw the reader in...okay admit it was cheezy but.................now that you're here....
> 
> I'm talking about skin thickness and the seemingly thinning of human skin in general. It still seems pretty strong and flexible in person but online, skin has seemingly gotten very, very thin!
> 
> ...


I think the more population we get the more irritable and aggressive. I also think that when a newbie introduces themselves there are 120 people who attack with all the statements, heat, light and humidity.


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## Toddrickfl1 (Nov 5, 2021)

For people to really challenge their own belief system to learn different things and grow requires offense at the onset. The whole "It's not ok to offend people" movement is by design imo.


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## Maro2Bear (Nov 5, 2021)

Gee, I thought this was going to be all about the ozone level & climate change. Or, diminishing thickness of skin & calluses since there are fewer and fewer people working with their hands! ?‍


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## Maggie3fan (Nov 5, 2021)

Maro2Bear said:


> Gee, I thought this was going to be all about the ozone level & climate change. Or, diminishing thickness of skin & calluses since there are fewer and fewer people working with their hands! ?‍


And I thought I was going to find out where the giant blood spots on my arms come from...heck!


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## JoFisch (Nov 5, 2021)

It feels like people are just angry. I think chronic stress is the biggest culprit. We have been bombarded with the attitude that those with opposing views should be hated.
We are having to slog through work and life with increased difficulty because of the pandemic.
I think many marginalized groups are finally finding their voices and are demanding changes that are hard for others to swallow.
It feels that empathy isn’t valued in this country. 
I have had to avoid a lot of media (social and traditional) just so I don’t get sucked into the anger. I’ll probably regret making this post because I feel like it will be a beacon for anger.


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## bluRose09 (Nov 5, 2021)

I agree empathy is not valued.


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## Yvonne G (Nov 5, 2021)

In my opinion, there are a lot of new members who are pretty darned proud of their new tortoise set up (that they got from info online or the petshop or their vet) and they come here to show us how proud they are. We proceed to jump all over them with what Maggie referred to, wrong lights, wrong substrate, wrong, wrong, wrong!! That's not what they wanted to hear. They wanted a pat on the back and to be told what a good tortoise-keeper they are.

We all need to try to figure out just how to tell these new members how wrong they are without being so accusatory. Maybe instead we can say something like, "Hi, and Welcome to the Forum! I'm so glad to see you here with us. Quite a bit of what you've been told by the petshop, your vet, or online, is old and outdated information. We have put together a pretty good thread for new tortoise-keepers. You'll find everything here - (and insert a good thread for beginners [do we have such a thread?])"

We are not using the FAQ section nearly enough, in fact, not at all. Almost everything a new member is doing wrong has been addressed in the FAQ section and it would be SO EASY for us to copy/paste a thread title from the FAQ instead of typing up all the things that are wrong with the newbie's tortoise-keeping.


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## JoFisch (Nov 5, 2021)

Yvonne G said:


> In my opinion, there are a lot of new members who are pretty darned proud of their new tortoise set up (that they got from info online or the petshop or their vet) and they come here to show us how proud they are. We proceed to jump all over them with what Maggie referred to, wrong lights, wrong substrate, wrong, wrong, wrong!! That's not what they wanted to hear. They wanted a pat on the back and to be told what a good tortoise-keeper they are.
> 
> We all need to try to figure out just how to tell these new members how wrong they are without being so accusatory. Maybe instead we can say something like, "Hi, and Welcome to the Forum! I'm so glad to see you here with us. Quite a bit of what you've been told by the petshop, your vet, or online, is old and outdated information. We have put together a pretty good thread for new tortoise-keepers. You'll find everything here - (and insert a good thread for beginners [do we have such a thread?])"
> 
> We are not using the FAQ section nearly enough, in fact, not at all. Almost everything a new member is doing wrong has been addressed in the FAQ section and it would be SO EASY for us to copy/paste a thread title from the FAQ instead of typing up all the things that are wrong with the newbie's tortoise-keeping.


I really like Yvonne’s suggestion. I am a newbie but luckily I found the forum before I had a tortoise so I found out how passionate some of the members are before I needed to post anything. Not everybody finds the forum before they make the investment and they aren’t aware of how many different people the experts have had to argue with. 
I think directing people to read the care sheets and some of the other threads will help them understand why the experts are giving the advice they give and maybe be more willing to listen.


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## Jan A (Nov 5, 2021)

JoFisch said:


> I really like Yvonne’s suggestion. I am a newbie but luckily I found the forum before I had a tortoise so I found out how passionate some of the members are before I needed to post anything. Not everybody finds the forum before they make the investment and they aren’t aware of how many different people the experts have had to argue with.
> I think directing people to read the care sheets and some of the other threads will help them understand why the experts are giving the advice they give and maybe be more willing to listen.


I would agree with you. I tend to read thru a lot of threads--old & new-- when looking for an answer. But that is totally in line with my education & work experience. 

Unfortunately, the internet has trained some to become impatient--there just has to be an immediate right answer!! And "I'm right" because I saw it somewhere else on reddit, Facebook, etc. 

Perhaps upon registering with the forum, maybe new members should automatically have to read a couple of docs before posting threads. And if it's a newbie "emergency," it automatically goes to a moderator(s).

I'm all for improved communication. I'm not for the unsolicited criticism of our experts & experienced owners & breeders by "newbies" who have no idea how much time everyone VOLUNTARILY gives of themselves & responds to the same questions ad nauseum.


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## Turtulas-Len (Nov 5, 2021)

maggie3fan said:


> And I thought I was going to find out where the giant blood spots on my arms come from...heck!


I think mine come from the 60s and 70s and blood thinners today.


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## Maggie3fan (Nov 6, 2021)

I think that when a newbie introduces themselves and asks a question...if Tom gives one of his lengthy in depth replies and in a nice way he tells the newbie or noob what is wrong , anyway so Tom answers, so does Wellington and 2 or 3 others...don't freakin chime in with *this is bad... this is wrong*!!! If enuf of us say that, even I would feel attacked. We need to think before we post...this ain't a popularity contest...some of you who post regularly are doing it so another tortoise might live, other's are here for the social aspect. I just think maybe we need to handle most new tortoise keepers a little easier and post a care sheet for their species or link to...kinda make them do their own research after we have pointed them in the right direction...yeah...I actually did just say that!
Like this...read their complete post...then think twice before you respond. Not something written in stone...just an idea
this is one of my unnamed water turtles, he looks a little rough as he is shedding scutes right now...


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## Maggie3fan (Nov 6, 2021)

I think about the new "rehabber", who came in all excited and bragging about she was a great "rehabber" and yet did everything wrong... _every_ _thing_...so we did what we do and she ended up by telling Y, I think, to "stop talking to me"!!! Remember her? We did attack her...not Y but me and a couple of others...


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## RatQueen_Irene (Nov 6, 2021)

From the perspective of someone who had 9/10 of things figured out when they arrived for feedback/advice and who lurks all the new threads, the moderators and long time members who jump in to offer advice tend to have a very hostile tone in those initial replies, though I don't believe it's always intended. Not on my posts pretty much, but in general those of others that I've seen with worse setups. New folks obviously care a lot about their tortoise and are by and large asking for help, but no one wants to be accused of slowly murdering them.

I tend to disagree that someone needs to be offended first, all that does it make them defensive and put up walls from the get go. I appreciate the time that people put into replying and offering care advice, but you can see the difference it makes when you say a non-judging, fact based "This substrate is better for these reasons, the substrate currently in use can cause x, y, z" rather than "You're killing your tortoise. This substrate is horrible for them and everything you've been doing is wrong." People can say all of that without coming off as angry and hostile, using a neutral tone.

For evidence of the base concept, look at police interrogations for example. Getting someone interested in complying doesn't start with accusations and hostility, this has been proven to shut people down entirely. Coming at the angle of being a friend trying to help is the standard for a reason, people are much more willing to listen to advice to come forward, and help their tortoise.

Navigating the forum can be confusing for people, I couldn't find relevant FAQs or care sheets. In the hermann section for example, the new care sheet for mediterranean tortoises isn't pinned. I followed the old 2019ish "Updated caresheet" pinned there to nearly a T, and got implied accusations of listening to a pet store without research into best methods.

People only start saying they don't want feedback, when that feedback is laced with judgements of their character. Even if someone says that, the course of action is not to respond in hostility. They've put up walls and gone in their shell for a reason. The method to get them to come out and follow advice isn't to shake the tortoise haha

It's not a new thing that kindness/factual speech leads to convincing someone, the world is learning that it's not effective to be hostile, and that behavior is being called out or not accepted.


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## Maggie3fan (Nov 6, 2021)

RatQueen_Irene said:


> From the perspective of someone who had 9/10 of things figured out when they arrived for feedback/advice and who lurks all the new threads, the moderators and long time members who jump in to offer advice tend to have a very hostile tone in those initial replies, though I don't believe it's always intended. Not on my posts pretty much, but in general those of others that I've seen with worse setups. New folks obviously care a lot about their tortoise and are by and large asking for help, but no one wants to be accused of slowly murdering them.
> 
> I tend to disagree that someone needs to be offended first, all that does it make them defensive and put up walls from the get go. I appreciate the time that people put into replying and offering care advice, but you can see the difference it makes when you say a non-judging, fact based "This substrate is better for these reasons, the substrate currently in use can cause x, y, z" rather than "You're killing your tortoise. This substrate is horrible for them and everything you've been doing is wrong." People can say all of that without coming off as angry and hostile, using a neutral tone.
> 
> ...


Hey there Corvallis!!! I live 2 miles north of the hospital off 99...we'll have to meet some day if you are interested...


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## mark1 (Nov 6, 2021)

when telling someone something , folks doing the telling need to understand the difference between facts and opinions .....nothing wrong with giving opinion , lots of opinions are true and fact based , fact based does not make an opinion a fact or even true ..... giving folks opinions and conveying them as facts is a sure way to lose someones respect for you as a source of information ...... i can see how a groups opinions passed on as hard facts can alienate someone , especially if your opinions/facts cannot be backed up by logic ....... the internet/social media can make something look way more factual than it really is ..... anyone offended by anothers respectfully given opinion is unreasonable...... anyone offended by a fact , well they got persional issues .....JMO


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## Yvonne G (Nov 6, 2021)

I think that when we are advising a new member on the correct (what WE think is correct) way to do things, if we see that someone else has already said what we planned to say, back out and don't say it. Why do we think we have to jump on the band wagon and say again what's already been said? Instead, say something like, "I agree with what x x has told you."


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## RatQueen_Irene (Nov 6, 2021)

Thinking on it more to pinpoint what I mean by hostile language, I think that it's heavily related to commands. Short, terse sentences straight up saying "Stop doing x. You're killing your tortoise." vs "From experience seeing x happen when y is done, I'd strongly advise to do z right away." As said above, both opinions and facts are stated as absolute law a lot of the time, from a place assuming direct authority

Once that command is given, the wall is already up, no matter how much reasoning and logic based on science and experience is given afterward. Best I think to start with reasoning, and expand on evidence if someone still has doubts. It's more effort in the long run to try to lower walls rather than not raising them to begin with


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## Cathie G (Nov 6, 2021)

I can only speak for myself. When I first found the TFO, I still didn't have a clue on how to actually use my smart phone let alone this site. Most of the time I still don't ?. Having the links posted may have helped sooner though. I did know how to touch those. I found the instructions about a person's first post months after my I'd already posted one. Sorry ? Really though I didn't actually feel like I'd been jumped on by anyone here. I was just happy to get a response from real people. That's one reason I stayed. But I'm one of those crazy people that wants to see the pros and cons first before I make a decision.


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## Humbug & Maz (Nov 6, 2021)

Jan A said:


> Perhaps upon registering with the forum, maybe new members should automatically have to read a couple of docs before posting threads. And if it's a newbie "emergency," it automatically goes to a moderator(s).
> 
> I'm all for improved communication. I'm not for the unsolicited criticism of our experts & experienced owners & breeders by "newbies" who have no idea how much time everyone VOLUNTARILY gives of themselves & responds to the same questions ad nauseum.


I think Yvonne is right about starting with something like "Hi, and Welcome to the Forum! I'm so glad to see you here with us. Quite a bit of what you've been told by the pet shop, your vet, or online, is old and outdated information. We have put together a pretty good thread for new tortoise-keepers. You'll find everything here - (and insert a good thread for beginners [do we have such a thread?])" (A beginners thread would be great!) 

Jan also makes a good point here that perhaps new members could be directed to read some documents before posting (unless an emergency which could automatically go to mods/admin). Perhaps some of the pinned care sheets need to be the current ones.

I was confused when I first posted and put it in the wrong section but then got the hang of everything and have appreciated the advice given on here plus I like to come back to learn more. I also know the guidance is given freely by tortoise lovers/experts and I enjoy being on this forum, but it took a little while for me to get used to it all.

Members need to be encouraged to come back and feel a part of it all. It is easy for people to feel embarrassed that they got bad advice from pet stores (therefore sometimes people can get defensive) and they just need encouragement to get things right. As others have said, not everyone is lucky enough to find this forum BEFORE they buy their tortoise. It IS the best forum out there!


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## Maggie3fan (Nov 6, 2021)

RatQueen_Irene said:


> Thinking on it more to pinpoint what I mean by hostile language, I think that it's heavily related to commands. Short, terse sentences straight up saying "Stop doing x. You're killing your tortoise." vs "From experience seeing x happen when y is done, I'd strongly advise to do z right away." As said above, both opinions and facts are stated as absolute law a lot of the time, from a place assuming direct authority
> 
> Once that command is given, the wall is already up, no matter how much reasoning and logic based on science and experience is given afterward. Best I think to start with reasoning, and expand on evidence if someone still has doubts. It's more effort in the long run to try to lower walls rather than not raising them to begin with


That's in a perfect world...but no one said they needed to be offended first...you misunderstood...we are saying exactly the opposite, that we needed to be more cautious how we present our advice...I generally say I'm not an expert but in MY experience...yada blah...but I know I am always one to bottomline things and my irritation gets noticeable at times...I hope they deserve whatever because ya just can't fix stupid...they can't spell, or use most forms of punctuation or show respect, I try to not respond but not always..what the heck did they learn in school??? But I do say...stop doing x...because I want them to know whatever they need to change or the tort will die...I *need* them to know exactly that...I am not one to sugar coat things and if they don't like what I say or how I say it...you want your tort to live...then shut up and listen...now another drink is in the offing...


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## Humbug & Maz (Nov 6, 2021)

@jeff kushner I am not sure if your original post was aimed solely at this forum or was about the general world wide web; however, I find I am not as thick skinned as I thought I was. There are some amazing people on here and I thank everyone for the help I have been given but I am now choosing to leave this forum.

I have been kind and courteous, thankful and (as much as I can be as a relative newbie) helpful and welcoming. But I feel uncomfortable now and I did not feel right about the post that was put up about @TaylorTortoise (who has been a loyal member for about 20 months) not having enough friends on here as she apparently hasn't been on here long enough to be a moderator (despite her obvious wish to be considered as one). I note she hasn't been on the site now for much longer than usual and that is very sad as I know this forum means a lot to her. Some people are suitable to be mods and some are not but I feel she was totally ostracized!

I have gained a lot over the past few weeks and will check in as a guest from time to time, but I don't feel "thick skinned" enough to carry on here. I was a mod and admin for years on a totally different forum and know what it takes to do a good job and how much time and effort is put in - but it needs kindness above everything. It costs nothing to be kind, however irritated you might feel.

Also want to thank the non mods/admin @Lyn W @Krista S and @Cathie G amongst others (sorry not to name you all) for your welcoming skills despite you turning down a moderator role – you are all marvellous!​


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## wellington (Nov 6, 2021)

Jan A said:


> I would agree with you. I tend to read thru a lot of threads--old & new-- when looking for an answer. But that is totally in line with my education & work experience.
> 
> Unfortunately, the internet has trained some to become impatient--there just has to be an immediate right answer!! And "I'm right" because I saw it somewhere else on reddit, Facebook, etc.
> 
> ...


I really like the idea of newbies being directed to having too read a few threads before being able to post. It's obvious most of them don't read any before posting or they would already know and hopefully would have changed all the bad in their husbandry. 
Those newbies that argue, I do believe are those that came here just to be patted on the back. When a life of an animal is involved, I'm not patting anyone's back, im going to try and save the animal. 
Anything else, I don't care and would give all the pats they want. Animal first ego last!
I also don't think they do understand how we have lives. I'm on here a lot. I try to check in often and check for unanswered threads, answer what I can quickly and then I'm off. I have a lot going on, as I'm sure the other mods do. I'm a get to the point type of person and always have been. Out of the newbies I have peed off, probably half have sent a PM, apologizing and/or thanking me for helping them improve their torts life. The other half probably just aren't big enough to admit they were wrong and never would in any situation.
I also believe the thinned skin has a lot to do with the situation of the world and probably more so everyone's a tuff guy behind a screen and keyboard. Very few without them would have the same guts.


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## Chubbs the tegu (Nov 6, 2021)

I came in here and then seen all of the short novels written. Im more or a movie watcher than reader.. so if u guys wouldnt mind putting ur posts into video form? That would be great!


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## RatQueen_Irene (Nov 6, 2021)

I don't think it's an issue of new people not reading necessarily, I think far more just can't find the info. I have no idea where Tom's updated caresheets are - they're not pinned in the sub forum for the species they correspond to. I have to search each time. That's where people go first, and there's old info pinned there. A welcome message with links would be a big help.

Honestly, it takes less energy to be kind than to be a complete asshole to someone. Here's an example: "There are severe threats here to your tortoise's health, I'd recommend fixing them as soon as possible. A quick list: uvb is needed, fruit should be removed, sand is a dangerous substrate. Here's a link to the caresheet (link)". And it's done, without hostility all around and people shutting down. You could save more tortoises this way, I guarantee. It seems far more an issue of people's stubbornness, anger, and ego than caring for them


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## wellington (Nov 6, 2021)

RatQueen_Irene said:


> I don't think it's an issue of new people not reading necessarily, I think far more just can't find the info. I have no idea where Tom's updated caresheets are - they're not pinned in the sub forum for the species they correspond to. I have to search each time. That's where people go first, and there's old info pinned there. A welcome message with links would be a big help.
> 
> Honestly, it takes less energy to be kind than to be a complete asshole to someone. Here's an example: "There are severe threats here to your tortoise's health, I'd recommend fixing them as soon as possible. A quick list: uvb is needed, fruit should be removed, sand is a dangerous substrate. Here's a link to the caresheet (link)". And it's done, without hostility all around and people shutting down. You could save more tortoises this way, I guarantee. It seems far more an issue of people's stubbornness, anger, and ego than caring for them


Personally, I feel that is the way it usually is started out, for several post, by different members. Then the newbie gets their butt hurt and starts the attack. 
As for finding the threads. As a newer member it would be helpful to us that are used to finding them, what would help to make them easier? Maybe if they were easier more newbies would find them sooner. I can find them easily, just takes me longer to get them posted on a thread. I only have a phone I do this on so it's a lot of back tracking.


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## Tom (Nov 6, 2021)

RatQueen_Irene said:


> Honestly, it takes less energy to be kind than to be a complete asshole to someone.


I disagree on this one point. For me it is just the opposite. My Dad had a saying: "Its easy to be an A-hole to someone. Takes no effort at all. It takes effort to be nice." If you knew the man it would make much more sense to you, but either way, it does illustrate that different people see things differently.



RatQueen_Irene said:


> Here's an example: "There are severe threats here to your tortoise's health, I'd recommend fixing them as soon as possible. A quick list: uvb is needed, fruit should be removed, sand is a dangerous substrate. Here's a link to the caresheet (link)". And it's done, ...


This is exactly how I perceive myself doing things. Almost word-for-word and in the same order. There was a recent exception when the new member started out with an offensive tone and basically told us that we were all a-holes but don't be an a-hole to me. I politely addressed that horrible opening statement, and then proceeded to do what you outlined here. Please speak freely and tell me if my perception of how I present info is wrong from what you've seen.


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## Maggie3fan (Nov 7, 2021)

Humbug & Maz said:


> @jeff kushner I am not sure if your original post was aimed solely at this forum or was about the general world wide web; however, I find I am not as thick skinned as I thought I was. There are some amazing people on here and I thank everyone for the help I have been given but I am now choosing to leave this forum.
> 
> I have been kind and courteous, thankful and (as much as I can be as a relative newbie) helpful and welcoming. But I feel uncomfortable now and I did not feel right about the post that was put up about @TaylorTortoise (who has been a loyal member for about 20 months) not having enough friends on here as she apparently hasn't been on here long enough to be a moderator (despite her obvious wish to be considered as one). I note she hasn't been on the site now for much longer than usual and that is very sad as I know this forum means a lot to her. Some people are suitable to be mods and some are not but I feel she was totally ostracized!
> 
> ...


@Humbug & Maz ...I cannot f'ing believe that you are leaving because YOU misunderstood what I wrote. @TaylorTortoise said, and I quote not exactly...something about her *not having very many friends*... so I said...it's because you haven't been here long enuf...what the heck is wrong with that???????????? She asked and I told... I am seriously tired of having to defend myself because somebody who has trouble deciphering the written word misunderstands me. ...and my _personal _opinion is that she is too young, here and in age, and too nice, she'd get walked all over.... My personal opinion accounts as squat. I have absolutely no say in anything that goes on here. So you wanna leave??? BYE, oh and thanks ever so...


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## minimoo (Nov 7, 2021)

Tom said:


> I disagree on this one point. For me it is just the opposite. My Dad had a saying: "Its easy to be an A-hole to someone. Takes no effort at all. It takes effort to be nice." If you knew the man it would make much more sense to you, but either way, it does illustrate that different people see things differently.


There's a difference between being an a$$hole and being direct. As a brand-spankin'-newbie who was trying to gorge on all the info on everything, my interpretation of Tom's posts and a few others are that they are simply 'direct'...and with the number of times they respond with the same core info, I can see where elaboration might get lost over the years. I also tend to be direct/curt, and it takes much more time/effort for me to compose thoughts in a "kind" way. 

I do think something along the lines of Yvonne's encouraging statement, "It looks like you've put a lot/some effort into giving your tortoise the best care, yet it seems that some of the information you have received is outdated." I feel that acknowledging their efforts should be enough of a validation to keep that wall down/door open for absorbing corrections.


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## TaylorTortoise (Nov 7, 2021)

maggie3fan said:


> @Humbug & Maz ...I cannot f'ing believe that you are leaving because YOU misunderstood what I wrote. @TaylorTortoise said, and I quote not exactly...something about her *not having very many friends*... so I said...it's because you haven't been here long enuf...what the heck is wrong with that???????????? She asked and I told... I am seriously tired of having to defend myself because somebody who has trouble deciphering the written word misunderstands me. ...and my _personal _opinion is that she is too young, here and in age, and too nice, she'd get walked all over.... My personal opinion accounts as squat. I have absolutely no say in anything that goes on here. So you wanna leave??? BYE, oh and thanks ever so...


@Humbug & Maz sometimes we have to just look shocked.. and bite our tounges at how overly powering or serious some people may be on here…. All I gotta say is I might be young, but I will out live anyone on this site  

Which will make me more knowledgeable starting at such a young age!!! So let them say what they want!!! It’s constructive feedback in my opinion, nothing ever bothers me. I am solely here for one thing, to learn, better myself as a tortoise’ parent and help others thrive on here.


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## Chubbs the tegu (Nov 7, 2021)

This whole thing is getting silly with you 3. Nothing Mags says is gonna make a difference in weather u become moderator or not...She was just giving her opinion on it. 
people are going to give there names who they want as moderators and that will be the deciding factor. 
Taylortortoise, you said urself ur here to help people.. there is no need to be a moderator for that ? so what is it? The power trip?


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## Jan A (Nov 7, 2021)

TaylorTortoise said:


> @Humbug & Maz sometimes we have to just look shocked.. and bite our tounges at how overly powering or serious some people may be on here…. All I gotta say is I might be young, but I will out live anyone on this site
> 
> Which will make me more knowledgeable starting at such a young age!!! So let them say what they want!!! It’s constructive feedback in my opinion, nothing ever bothers me. I am solely here for one thing, to learn, better myself as a tortoise’ parent and help others thrive on here.


You're right. You will outlive many of us. Gee, thanks. There's a quality you think you need to be a good moderator?

Maggie's comment applies to me as well. I've had a tort for 3 months. I've never had any other reptile. Other people nominated as moderator have yrs of tortoise experience from hatchling to adults. Some have bred and/or hatched eggs. Many have raised turtles or other reptiles.

That, to me, is the point Maggie was getting at. It isn't just the amount of time you've been on TF or how much you've "read", it's also how long you've owned a tort or turtle. 

We can't buy experience. That is what makes TF unique. You can come here & get answers & moderators oversee that a newbie or member get the best answers we have. And there is debate because so much of the "science" is old or very subjective. That is healthy. Moderators have to intervene when it turns into personal attacks or it gets off track. 

Moderators also have to intervene when answers/advice are flat out wrong. You & I aren't there yet.

In addition to emergencies automatically referred to moderators, maybe we need moderators in training for people like you & I who have much less tort/turtle/reptile experience who want to participate as moderators. 

I am a firm believer in "it's not the years, it's the mileage." So yes, younger people can & should be moderators if they have the requisite tort and/or turtle experience (& can read & write).


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