# Swollen Tortoise



## RianSeeking (Dec 5, 2010)

Okay, so I was fairly sure Josh is swelling up and Kristina confirmed it on FB. Here is the picture:

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=535748&l=9bdd900081&id=100000261172163

I'll get her into the vet as soon as possible.

Meanwhile, what causes renal failure, is there anything that can be done? She's happy and hungry and active at the moment.


----------



## Kristina (Dec 5, 2010)

One of the biggest causes in captive torts is long term dehydration. Another is over-feeding protein. It can also be caused by infection or parasites. That is the reason a vet is needed - both to confirm that it IS renal failure, and to try to pin-point the cause. 

Warm and humid is the best option for the time being. She needs water in her system to start flushing the toxins out. 

I like to use warm water and Pedialyte for this, 50/50 mix, because I feel that the electrolytes in the Pedialyte allow for better osmotic reaction, and they hydrate and flush faster that way.


----------



## Becki (Dec 5, 2010)

Good luck at the vet. Please let us know how it goes.


----------



## ALDABRAMAN (Dec 5, 2010)

Good luck at the vet.


----------



## egyptiandan (Dec 5, 2010)

Hate to disagree Kristina, but water is the worsest thing right now. The kidney aren't functioning well, so not passing much if any urine/blood toxins. If you give water you can cause water toxicity because it is not leaving the system. Food is fine though.
Yes a vet is needed asap

Danny


----------



## Isa (Dec 6, 2010)

Good luck at the vet and please keep us updated.


----------



## Angi (Dec 6, 2010)

Good luck with the vet and sorry your little guy is ill


----------



## Kristina (Dec 6, 2010)

egyptiandan said:


> Hate to disagree Kristina, but water is the worsest thing right now. The kidney aren't functioning well, so not passing much if any urine/blood toxins. If you give water you can cause water toxicity because it is not leaving the system. Food is fine though.
> Yes a vet is needed asap
> 
> Danny



If I am wrong I am wrong  Don't hate, lol.


----------



## RianSeeking (Dec 6, 2010)

So. I took Josh to a new reptile vet today. 

I like the new vet, Dr. W, much better than the first who was a kind lady but seemed to get all her information from sheets pulled off the internet, while Dr. W seems to be speaking from first hand experience.

Josh's x rays all look really good. Lungs are clear and 'plenty of breathing room'. The kidneys look great. No stones. Everything clear. Dr. W will never the less send the x rays off to a radiologist for a second opinion.

She was not able to get any blood out of Josh because of the swelling. She did manage a little lymph fluid so she will send that off. I am not sure what lymph fluid will reveal, but she seemed to think it was better than nothing and apologized often for the blood problems.

Basically, she thinks Josh has dietary related edema or gout. The joints are swollen, 'goiter like'.

She wants Josh off - <grabs list> - anything bokchoy, broccoli, cabbage, kale, mustard seed, turnip, chard or dandelion related.

She wants Josh ON lettuces (basically romaine) plus supplemental bits of corn, lentils, cranberries (!), plums or prunes, carrots.

She wants her on a multivitamin containing iodine, but as little salt as possible. This was a difficulty. Everything I found containing iodine also contained salt.

She wants her soaked often.

She said because of Josh's activity level and eating level she did not want to do anything such as vitamin or calcium shots, that she didn't believe in fast fixes when it might be done through diet. She also said she didn't expect immediate results but she would check in with me next week.

Our next option is trucking Josh a few hours over to WSU in Pullman, where there is a premier reptile vet.

Any thoughts?


----------



## dmmj (Dec 6, 2010)

I don't like to argue with vets especially ones who don't jump right way to a vitamin shot fix. sounds like good advice, glad to hear she does not think it is kidney related.


----------



## Torty Mom (Dec 6, 2010)

I am so glad you took Josh in. You are a great tortie parent!! Have you checked a health food store for the iodine? Keep up the good work, you are doing a great job.


----------



## RianSeeking (Dec 7, 2010)

*RE: Swollen Tortoise - Update*

The radiologist agreed with Dr. W - the X rays look generally fine.

He did say that Josh's bones look very thin, probably another dietary issue.

Is this something that can be improved on as she takes her calcium, or, as an adult, is she beyond bone strengthening?


----------



## Shelly (Dec 7, 2010)

Those dietary recommendations seem pretty odd to me.


----------



## Maggie Cummings (Dec 7, 2010)

Well, with all that said I would improve her diet and add calcium w/D3. What has her diet been like up to now? I don't understand tho how the swelling could be diet related, do you feed her bunches of cabbage or bok choy? I understand one goiter, but not all the swelling I saw. Well, I'm not a Vet, nor do I play one on TV. I am glad you took her in, but I think you need to take her to the premiere vet. I just can't see how all that swelling is diet related. Please tell me, what do you feed her?


----------



## Kristina (Dec 7, 2010)

The lettuces and cranberries for a short time, I get. The corn and lentils, not at all. 

Let me put it this way - the calcium can't hurt.


----------



## RianSeeking (Dec 7, 2010)

maggie3fan said:


> I just can't see how all that swelling is diet related. Please tell me, what do you feed her?



She had romaine and kale for a few weeks before I joined TFO.

Since then it has been Spring Mix and dandelion and a bit of red chard.

So....let us say three weeks on romaine, kale, iceberg followed by another three or four on the Spring Mix, dandelion, tiny bit of chard. She has had a small planter of wheat grass in her enclosure for the last week, but does not eat it.

I have to say, I think she was beginning to swell when I brought her home. But that would be roughly six weeks of slow swelling.


----------

