# my new tortoise doesn't stand up...



## Leebug (Jan 10, 2011)

Ok, ya'll... I am new to this, owning a tortoise and forums, so bear w/ me  Just got a new lil guy and wondering what kind it is... I'll post pics as soon as I figure that out. But I have a few ???'s.
My lil guy (or girl) doesn't stand up... when he walks he just kinda scoots. The guy we got him from said it is 3 years old, about the size of a cd, and I am pretty sure it is a desert tortoise. He doesn't seem to be able to hold his own weight, his legs just go out to the sides behind him... He was kept in a 10 gal tank, we are in the process of building a turtle table and do have hime in a much larger bin for now... Could his back legs just not be strong enough b/c of improper nutrition and/or lack of exercise from being in such a small area???


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## Missy (Jan 10, 2011)

Hi welcome. Yes it could be the case but without pics it will be hard to help you. If you can post pics someone will tell you what you have and we can see the shell condition so we can give suggestions.


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## Leebug (Jan 10, 2011)

Missy said:


> Hi welcome. Yes it could be the case but without pics it will be hard to help you. If you can post pics someone will tell you what you have and we can see the shell condition so we can give suggestions.



<a href="http://s81.photobucket.com/albums/j211/roxylee80/?action=view&current=frank018.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j211/roxylee80/frank018.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
I'm not quite sure if this is how to post a pic...


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## moswen (Jan 10, 2011)

well, yes excersize is very important for any torotise. in the wild tortoises may roam miles in it's natural habitat. but, it sounds like your tortoise could be suffering from MBD, or Metabolic Bone Disease. this is a symptom where a tortoise has not recieved proper lighting and diet to help it's bones and shell develop, and the tort's blood is taking calcium out of it's shell and legs. this is a pretty serious condition. take the tort to the vet, he will need to go no matter what his problem ends up being, but if it is mbd he will give you some liquid calcium that you can squirt in his mouth or inject, i think. this is the best and fastest way to get your tort up and running. pics will be great, so we can tell you how to best keep him/her.

when you squeeze the shell, is it soft, kind of spongy? or does it give when you press his/her plastron? if so, then i am almost positive that's what it is. 


you can post pictures by using photobucket, uploading your pics from your computer onto photobucket, then getting the "image code." post the image code on here, it will be a bunch of letters till you post your thread, then it will pop up as the picture. 

welcome to the forum!

oh oops you must have been posting that while i was typing lol! you used photobucket which is good, but you may have erased some of the link bc it's not working, try it again!

make sure you're copying the one that says "image code" it's the last one when you hover over the picture with your mouse.


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## Leebug (Jan 10, 2011)

<a href="http://s81.photobucket.com/albums/j211/roxylee80/?action=view&current=frank018.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j211/roxylee80/frank018.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

I can't figure this out... 



newtortoiseowner said:


> <a href="http://s81.photobucket.com/albums/j211/roxylee80/?action=view&current=frank018.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j211/roxylee80/frank018.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
> 
> I can't figure this out...


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## moswen (Jan 10, 2011)

haha, i have no idea why this isn't working. after you uploaded the pics did you click "save to my album" on the bottom right of the screen? it won't work until they're saved to your album...?


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## Leebug (Jan 10, 2011)

moswen said:


> haha, i have no idea why this isn't working. after you uploaded the pics did you click "save to my album" on the bottom right of the screen? it won't work until they're saved to your album...?





I don't see where to even have an album, I am very confused... Thanks for all of the replies... trying to find a vet that knows about reptiles.


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## moswen (Jan 10, 2011)

there is a reptile vet list here on the forum, they may have a vet listed in your area, maybe that will give you someplace to start!


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## Leebug (Jan 10, 2011)




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## Leebug (Jan 10, 2011)

moswen said:


> well, yes excersize is very important for any torotise. in the wild tortoises may roam miles in it's natural habitat. but, it sounds like your tortoise could be suffering from MBD, or Metabolic Bone Disease. this is a symptom where a tortoise has not recieved proper lighting and diet to help it's bones and shell develop, and the tort's blood is taking calcium out of it's shell and legs. this is a pretty serious condition. take the tort to the vet, he will need to go no matter what his problem ends up being, but if it is mbd he will give you some liquid calcium that you can squirt in his mouth or inject, i think. this is the best and fastest way to get your tort up and running. pics will be great, so we can tell you how to best keep him/her.
> 
> when you squeeze the shell, is it soft, kind of spongy? or does it give when you press his/her plastron? if so, then i am almost positive that's what it is.
> 
> ...





His shell is not soft at all...


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## Tracy Gould (Jan 10, 2011)

Hi welcome to the forum.If u want to post Pictures try this link it will give u a forum code that will place the picture direct to the post instead of a link.

http://www.littlepic.com/


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## Leebug (Jan 10, 2011)

ok, now that I've posted a few pics, anyone know what kind this lil guy is??? 
Think I have found a vet... but wondering if anyone has had this problem before w/ their tortoise???




newtortoiseowner said:


> ok, now that I've posted a few pics, anyone know what kind this lil guy is???
> Think I have found a vet... but wondering if anyone has had this problem before w/ their tortoise???



Ok. so his shell is hard but does give a little when I squeeze him... I have found an exotic vet but he's out of town for the next week. of course! Well... I will be doing whatever I can to get him healthy!!!


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## Yvonne G (Jan 10, 2011)

If you're anywhere near Tucson, this is the best vet you could find. He's been taking care of tortoises for over 30 years. I read articles written by him over 30 years ago when I first got into tortoises, so he's been doing it a long time:

Dr. Jim Jarchow
3091 West Orange Grove Road
Tucson, AZ 85741-2943
(520) 877-2626

Hi Lee:

Welcome to the forum!! You have a desert tortoise that has been given really rotten care. Its pretty hard to grow a bumpy desert tortoise, but your new little baby is pretty bumpy. Also, the weak limbs is a good indication that he suffers from MBD, which goes along with the poor nutrition that he received before you.

Here's a list of things a desert tortoise can eat:

http://www.tortoiseforum.org/Thread...orts-DT-Marginated-Greeks-Russians-Sullys-etc

Your new tortoise needs calcium and vitamin d3. If he can't get his d3 from the sun (bad weather?) then you MUST buy a UVB light. My personal preference is the T-Rex active UV/heat. This is a mercury vapor bulb and costs around $45. You can buy it online. A tortoise needs the d3 in order for the calcium to work, without it the calcium is peed out in the urine.

There IS hope for your baby. With the correct diet and calcium/d3, he will get stronger and he will have the best chance at a long life!

I'm glad that he is now in the care of someone who is looking out for the tortoise's best interest!


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## John (Jan 10, 2011)

wow thats sad!


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## moswen (Jan 10, 2011)

oh poor guy, his back legs seem to be constantly splayed out and to the side in every picture. i don't know how i wouldn't cry every time i looked at him. it seems like he's never recieved the proper care or love that it takes to provide a tortoise with proper care. and with an endangered species... how horrible. poor guy i'm glad you've taken over his care and i hope he'll make it. 

glad you finally got the pictures up lol! did you figure out what was wrong?

it seems like my font of knowledge (lol) has reached a barrier, i've never cared for or studied up on a desert tortoise. there's no point since i'll never be able to own one haha! lots of ppl on here do, and i'm sure they'll love to help you get on the right track! best of luck!


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## Leebug (Jan 10, 2011)

My name is Lee. I have been wanting a tortoise for a while & had been doing some research but more on Sulcata's and Russian torts... My hubby and I met a guy & he mentioned having a Sulcata and needed to get rid of it... long-story-short~ when we went to pick it up (w/ our 2 very excited daughters)~ turned out not to be a Sulcata but that was ok. And then I noticed that the shell looked a little weird & that his legs were not so great either but couldn't say no to the girls... We are hoping that we can nurse him back to health. Looking forward to "saving Franklin" w/ the girls (their 5 and 4) 
Wish us luck~ 
I haven't quite figured this whole forum thing out. I have searched around on here and did learn A LOT!! Thank you to everyone again for the help.
We are not in the Tuscon area but I have found a vet in my area by talking w/ the Phoenix Herp guys and the AZ fish and game ppl.
We will be getting the light tomorrow and just about have all the suff to start building our table to make this guy a forever home. Good thing the hubby is great at building things!!! 
Any suggestions for our table??
Wondering if we should make it more smooth since his back legs don't work so well...
Thanks All


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## dmmj (Jan 10, 2011)

I would suspect that your desert tortoise probably had the wrong substrate growing up or he /she did not get enough exercise. They can get lazy and just want to drag themselves around. It could also be MBD this is where a vet comes in handy.


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## ALDABRAMAN (Jan 10, 2011)

Welcome.


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## Yvonne G (Jan 10, 2011)

Hi Lee:

No, not smooth. He needs traction. Sometimes when a baby is raised on a smooth, slippery surface he gets what is know in birds as spraddle leg. I don't think there's a name for it in tortoises. But he needs to be able to get some traction. We normally recommend cypress mulch or coco coir to use as substrate, but because your baby is having a hard time with his back legs I'd like to recommend that you buy a couple yards of indoor/outdoor carpet...enough that you can make three or four separate pieces to interchange as they get dirty. Don't buy the kind that has grass-like matting. Get the nubby kind that he won't try to eat. When you take out one piece, you can wash it off and hang it in the sun. You can re-use them over and over. Then when his legs get better, you can go to the mulch or coir.


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## Leebug (Jan 10, 2011)

Thanks Yvonne G.


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## Laura (Jan 10, 2011)

yep, what Yvonne said. 
i hope you didnt pay for him. Even tho the guy who had him had no idea...
cant sell desert torts.. 
also check again with fish and game.. i think you need a permit, regardless of how you go it. I know in calif you do. 
Hopefully with proper diet, sun and some physical therapy he will get use of his legs back. might need some support or wheels for a bit.


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## Madortoise (Jan 19, 2011)

oh wow, this is very sad. he's a cute little guy w/bright eyes nonetheless. I heard that soft substrate such as rabbit pallets can make it difficult for tortoise to walk on...it's like sinking in the sand, I suppose. I wonder what the real story of the guy is...and what your Vet will say....please keep us posted.


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## Shelly (Jan 20, 2011)

newtortoiseowner said:


> Any suggestions for our table??



Use the table ONLY until the weather gets better and he can be put outside. That is where he belongs and where he will thrive. Outdoors, in the sun.


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## Leebug (Jan 28, 2011)

Hi, Everyone!!!

Well, Franklin has been doing much better...
He has been in his new home for a few weeks now and we have him on a schedule of soaking and feeding him every 3 days. He is eating very well and seems to be doing much better


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## Tom (Jan 28, 2011)

SUNSHINE SUNSHINE SUNSHINE!!! Several people on both threads have mentioned it, but I really wanted to emphasize it. A good diet, calcium supplementation, and lots of SUNSHINE, will probably turn this little guy around and get him walking again. Being outside on natural ground and grazing on grass and weeds will work wonders for him. I'd soak him at least every other day too.

Your enclosure looks great. Nice job. Your light bulb will work better if you somehow mount it directly overhead. I usually hang them by their cords. This is much safer AND it allows you to adjust the height to get your temp just right. Those clamps ALWAYS fail eventually.


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## Leebug (Jan 28, 2011)

Ahhh, yes  We've been letting him outside after the soak and feeding time (however, he seems scared and just wants to hide and usually ends up falling asleep) We've also gotten a new light and have it mounted just over 1/2 of the enclosure  I'll be soaking him every other day from now on, thanks for the tip!!!


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## Yvonne G (Jan 28, 2011)

Oh wow! What a nice enclosure. You did a great job.

Am I to understand that you only feed Franklin every three days? In my opinion, he should get food every day. 

Once you notice that he's walking better, you can change out the carpeting for substrate. But it looks good. I'm sure it helps him to get traction.


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## Maggie Cummings (Jan 28, 2011)

He needs to be fed every day. You can soak every 3 days if you want, but please feed him daily. Fix your light so it's not shining at an angle, the UVB waves need to be pointed straight down...


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## Leebug (Jan 28, 2011)

emysemys said:


> Oh wow! What a nice enclosure. You did a great job.
> 
> Am I to understand that you only feed Franklin every three days? In my opinion, he should get food every day.
> 
> Once you notice that he's walking better, you can change out the carpeting for substrate. But it looks good. I'm sure it helps him to get traction.


 
well we just figured since he would be hibernating to let him sleep but maybe we will start waking him up everyday...
he definitely walks alot better on the carpet than on the substrate!
we love this little guy and have become quite obsessed! who knew?!!  I appreciate all tips and any info I get from all of you  Thank you so much!!

























Ok, so I will feed him everyday... keep up with the calcium as I have for a few more weeks and then cut back to 3x a wk... Sunshine! EVERYDAY, lots of beautiful Arizona sun rays  & will start soaking him every other day... 
This lil guy will be walking in no time, I just know it!


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## Laura (Jan 28, 2011)

great job! he already looks much better!


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## terryo (Jan 28, 2011)

I love reading threads like this. I'm so happy for this little guy, now that he found you.


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## montana (Jan 29, 2011)

Looks like a classic case of M.D.B.. Too bad .. The vet can give you calcium
.. But you will need to get your tort out in the sun or under a good MVB ..

Improvement is possible But problems later are common ..


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## Leebug (Jan 29, 2011)

montana said:


> Looks like a classic case of M.D.B.. Too bad .. The vet can give you calcium
> .. But you will need to get your tort out in the sun or under a good MVB ..
> 
> Improvement is possible But problems later are common ..



We sprinkle calcium on his food and I just read about putting baby food in the water that we soak him in... might give that a try.
We have a 160watt MVB and he has been getting sun every 3 days... we thought because he would normally be hibernating to let him sleep but now we know to wake him daily, feed him and get this lil duded out everyday!


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## shellysmom (Mar 2, 2011)

I hate seeing poor little torts in bad condition like this, but I love, love, LOVE hearing a good rescue story, especially when it's someone who unknowingly stumbles into the situation but resolves to do whatever they can to give the little one(s) a good life.


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## armandoarturo (Mar 2, 2011)

hmmm Franklin looks more like a Texas tortoise for me... doesnt he?


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## Yvonne G (Mar 2, 2011)

I thought that at first too, Armondo, but Egyptiandan set me straight right off the bat. I think its just because the little guy has spent his whole life indoors.


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## CtTortoiseMom (Mar 2, 2011)

I just read this whole thread. Great job, you are doing it!! You are saving Franklin!! I wish Franklin all the best! I have no expert advice to give so I am sending positive vibes.


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## SnakeyeZ (Mar 2, 2011)

Leebug said:


> Just got a new lil guy and wondering what kind it is... I'll post pics as soon as I figure that out.



Seems to be problem #1 right here. Why would you buy it not knowing what it is... ?


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## african cake queen (Mar 3, 2011)

i had a tortoise i got from a reptile show. got him home ,& he used his tail as a leg . both back leg no good. mbd was the prob. he needs a vet. good luck. momo


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## Leebug (Mar 3, 2011)

SnakeyeZ said:


> Leebug said:
> 
> 
> > Just got a new lil guy and wondering what kind it is... I'll post pics as soon as I figure that out.
> ...



we didn't buy it~ we saved him from a guy who could no longer take care of him, then found out how bad off the little guy was actually doing... I had been looking into getting a tort, so when we came accross this guy we figured we'd give it a try~ sick or not, we had to save Franklin, he was in a tiny tank w/ nothing but a cardboard box 



CtTortoiseMom said:


> I just read this whole thread. Great job, you are doing it!! You are saving Franklin!! I wish Franklin all the best! I have no expert advice to give so I am sending positive vibes.



Thank you!!! I've become quite obsessed and have fallen head-over-heels for this lil guy  I can't get enough of him!!


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## SnakeyeZ (Mar 3, 2011)

Ah okay, well that's great that your giving hima second chance. 

Sorry if I came across ignorant - I just see alot of "I just bought this now how do I take care of it" and I get a little anoid with it. (Not this forum, or this thread in specific either!). I'm a huge fan and promoter of "Research before you buy".


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## Skyler Nell (Mar 3, 2011)

I'm almost positive that this is a Texas Tortoise (Gopherus berlandieri).
It lacks a Nuchal shute, and the coloring, and head shape look more like Texas.
This little guy looks nothing like my Desert Tortoises.
Not that it would vary the care, but just wanted to give my opinion.

Here's a reference: http://www.tortoise.org/archives/gophdiff.html

And good job with the care  I'm glad he is doing better!


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## Yvonne G (Mar 3, 2011)

I don't think you can go by the nuchal scute area because this little guy is deformed there. If memory serves me correctly, Leebug (Lee) was told by both her vet (a good tortoise vet) and by the Arizona Game and Fish department that she had a desert tortoise.

It really doesn't make any difference to the care the tortoise receives. Same care for both species. Would be nice to know for sure though, huh?


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## Leebug (Mar 4, 2011)

As long as the care is the same for both species, it doesn't matter much to me 
He's just so darn cute!!!
Even tho, he poo'd on me y-day~ I'm still head-over-heels for the lil bugger 


Franklin: "It wasn't me!!!"


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## armandoarturo (Mar 4, 2011)

yeah, it doesnt really matter, and it doesnt makes a difference x)


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