# Hay 100% good? Maybe not.



## samstar (Nov 14, 2009)

I spoke to the vet who said that not to fill up the whole enclosure with hay as hay will absorb moisture and turn moldy and in return make Torty's surrounding very dry so I only put the corner of my enclosure with hay. Also full hay in the enclosure is ok with adult Stars. Come to think of it, Torty's eye problem only starsted when I used hay as substrate.


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## reptylefreek (Nov 14, 2009)

Before I got on here and found out that hay for a sulcata was a bad substrate I used it in the whole enclosure. Never had mold problems or any eye problems. I would use hay till now if it would provide the humidity I need. But then I guess it would have to turn moldy with that much moisture. I think one corner will suffice


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## GBtortoises (Nov 14, 2009)

For all of my larger adult enclosures I have always used straw which is much more mold resistant than hay is. Straw is also less dusty. But there have been years, this being one of them, that straw in my area is hard to come by because it does not grow well in the wet summer like we had this year. So I use hay instead. When I do use hay I turn it (mix it up) so that the bottom layers are on top and vice versa. I do this about every other day so that it does not compact too much and trap moisture. I I mist my enclosures twice daily too. If anything hay tends to dry out too quickly with the lights on and the room being so warm. I only use it with my Mediterranean tortoises. It is much too dry to use with Redfoots, Burmese Brown or other similar climate tortoise species. I have never had any mold problems in the enclosures or any tortoises with eye problems.


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## mctlong (Nov 14, 2009)

I stopped using timothy hay indoors because the mold drove my allergies crazy. I never saw or smelled the mold, but after a couple days, my allergies would sense it. So no more hay indoors. However, my Russian loves timothy hay, so I still keep a nice big pile outdoors in a dry corner of his enclosure. 

If you use timothy hay, I'd recommend it as a secondary substrate, not as the primary substrate. A little pile somewhere in the enclosure is fine, but I wouldn't recommend covering the entire enclosure with it because it doesn't hold moisture well. It will mold in a humid environment and it will mold if it gets damp.


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## dmmj (Nov 14, 2009)

Hay has always struck me as smooth and nice until my first hay ride, it is dry and scratchy stuff.


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## samstar (Nov 14, 2009)

I now only use hay in the corner of my enclosure compared to before the whole enclosure


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## tortoisenerd (Nov 15, 2009)

Indian Stars are the only torts on this forum I have heard of hay being recommended for as a substrate (more than just a pile of it). I had always heard as this thread suggests that it is too dry and difficult for a tort to walk on. My Russian loves his Timothy Hay pile, but I would never think of using it as a substrate, even shredded into smaller bits.

Samstar-So what are you using as the primary substrate now?


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## samstar (Nov 16, 2009)

tortoisenerd said:


> Indian Stars are the only torts on this forum I have heard of hay being recommended for as a substrate (more than just a pile of it). I had always heard as this thread suggests that it is too dry and difficult for a tort to walk on. My Russian loves his Timothy Hay pile, but I would never think of using it as a substrate, even shredded into smaller bits.
> 
> Samstar-So what are you using as the primary substrate now?



I was using hay but have switched to reptile carpet with a small portion of hay in one corner. Ever since I switched to the reptile carpet, Torty has been much more active. My friend did the same and got the same result. I spoke with the vet and he told me that not to use hay as primary substrate as the weather in Asia where I live is already very dry and true enough Torty is much more active.


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## -EJ (Nov 16, 2009)

I'm sitting here amazed as to what is the difference between hay and straw.

As long as it does not get wet or the wet hay is removed... it is a fantastic substrate.

I use bermuda hay. If they ingest it... they are getting the fiber that everyone says they need.

Use a little imagination... what do they burrow into... surely not sand and soil... mulch... hay... leaf litter...


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## tortoisenerd (Nov 16, 2009)

I don't agree with reptile carpet myself, but if you see your tort likes it better than that is great. Any other options? What about dry coconut fiber? I think tortoises should be allowed to have a natural substrate, not people substrate (carpet).


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## -EJ (Nov 16, 2009)

huh?... coconut fiber... natural?... in a sense... it is... but how many reptiles in the wild... naturally... have access to the stuff.

Don't get me wrong... I love the stuff for my animals... many animals.



tortoisenerd said:


> I don't agree with reptile carpet myself, but if you see your tort likes it better than that is great. Any other options? What about dry coconut fiber? I think tortoises should be allowed to have a natural substrate, not people substrate (carpet).


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## tortoisenerd (Nov 16, 2009)

I was trying to say the coconut fiber resembles dirt better than carpet does. Dirt would be fine too. I don't know of any animal that has carpet in the wild.


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## -EJ (Nov 16, 2009)

give it a little thought. Carpet is a subltrate. Do you really think an animal knows what it is? Carpet is a very good substrate for many reasons.



tortoisenerd said:


> I was trying to say the coconut fiber resembles dirt better than carpet does. Dirt would be fine too. I don't know of any animal that has carpet in the wild.


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## stells (Nov 17, 2009)

-EJ said:


> I'm sitting here amazed as to what is the difference between hay and straw.
> 
> As long as it does not get wet or the wet hay is removed... it is a fantastic substrate.
> 
> ...



Straw and Hay... the difference... nothing concerning mould if they get damp... 

One difference Hay is easier to digest than straw... giving Hay the benefit out of the two...lol


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## samstar (Nov 17, 2009)

I guess everything is good in moderation including hay and straw


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