# Brumating Tortoise Question



## Patr1ck (Dec 13, 2012)

My newly acquired Sonoran Desert Tortoise crawled out of his burrow tonight when it was raining. He was recently moved from my parents house to mine but he continued to brumate in his new burrow for the last few days until today. Is this anything to be concerned about? Its 57 degrees outside. I noticed that his mouth is muddy like he was eating the dirt. Was he getting water?

Thanks,


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## ascott (Dec 13, 2012)

> newly acquired



How long have you had the tortoise?



> crawled out of his burrow tonight when it was raining.



Did you see him crawl out? Was his mouth already wet/muddy? What was the temp when he crawled out? What did he do after coming out? Did he dig this burrow himself? Or is the burrow man (woman) made? 

It is not unusual for a tort to come out to drink in the wild when it rains...crucial need for water is always at the forefront....but I always get a bit weirded out if this were happening during the night hours...


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## Patr1ck (Dec 13, 2012)

ascott said:


> > newly acquired
> 
> 
> 
> ...



-I've had him for @ 30 years (since I was a child), but he has lived at my parents house that whole time until a week ago. I built him a burrow made out of bricks and topped with dirt as per the AZ Game and Fish specs. Its better than his old burrow he had before. 
-I did not see him crawl out.
-He was in his burrow earlier today before work
-His mouth was dry while he was in his burrow until I noticed it right now after he came out.
-Its 57 degrees out, warmer at night than it has been lately. 
-He's just been sitting there
-I don't think he has been out for too long as he was very close to the opening of his burrow. His burrow is dry inside.
He has always come out when it rains but this is usually noticed in the summer. I haven't been able to get ahold of my parents to see if they have noticed this winter time rain behavior.


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## ascott (Dec 13, 2012)

So, while he has been in the family for 30 years he is new to his home...so, my gut would make me fetch him for the night and bring him inside...

I would place him in a quiet place that is the coolest/coldest place and let him be for the night (because now he is wet and will be chilled if he is sitting outdoors at night)..then in the am I would really look him over and decide from there if you are going to overwinter him...I know your family has had him for some years but he is new to his new home (your home) and therefore I would play this year by ear...now, that is just me and what my first instinct would and is...

May we see a picture of him? Especially his face and his front leg/neck area?


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## Patr1ck (Dec 13, 2012)

ascott said:


> So, while he has been in the family for 30 years he is new to his home...so, my gut would make me fetch him for the night and bring him inside...
> 
> I would place him in a quiet place that is the coolest/coldest place and let him be for the night (because now he is wet and will be chilled if he is sitting outdoors at night)..then in the am I would really look him over and decide from there if you are going to overwinter him...I know your family has had him for some years but he is new to his new home (your home) and therefore I would play this year by ear...now, that is just me and what my first instinct would and is...
> 
> May we see a picture of him? Especially his face and his front leg/neck area?



I was kinda thinking that I should wake him up for this winter too, being that he is new to my yard to eliminate some of the stress at a bad time (brumating). I can get pics. What am I looking for in this area? Would a box in the garage be a good place for him?


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## ascott (Dec 13, 2012)

Well, was he woken up during his brumation and them moved to your home a week ago? I would imagine with the weather and time of year that would have been the case?


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## Patr1ck (Dec 13, 2012)

ascott said:


> Well, was he woken up during his brumation and them moved to your home a week ago? I would imagine with the weather and time of year that would have been the case?



I mean wake him up and keep him in an enclosure with a heat lamp, etc.. for the winter to let him back out in the spring. Would a box in the garage be an acceptable place for him tonight?


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## Tom (Dec 14, 2012)

Yes.

I'd make him a large enclosure with lots of light and heat during the day and try to keep him 70 ish at night, but still dark. You can move him out in the spring and he will have several months to acclimate to the new surroundings and condition. Plus this will reorient his internal clock so he will be ready for fall when it gets here.

I would also soak this guy a few times this week, and then once or twice a week until you get him moved back out. The hot bulbs and lack of a burrow can dehydrate them quicker than the more "natural" conditions outside.

Be careful. This sort of thing can kill them if you make a mistake. Whatever was working for the last 30 years is gone now, and it shouldn't be assumed that the same sort of thing will work where he is now. It might work, but it might not too.


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## Patr1ck (Dec 14, 2012)

Tom said:


> Be careful. This sort of thing can kill them if you make a mistake. Whatever was working for the last 30 years is gone now, and it shouldn't be assumed that the same sort of thing will work where he is now. It might work, but it might not too.



What sort of thing can kill them? Over wintering him? What mistakes would I need to look out for?


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## Tom (Dec 15, 2012)

Too cold, too damp, not cold enough, dehydration... 

Brumation/hibernation can be a bit of a tricky thing. A lot is assumed about CDTs because of the above ground weather conditions where they come from. What must be considered is that what happens in the wild, with their extensive burrows that are some times 20 yards long and 20-30 feet deep, cannot happen in our backyards with our man (or woman) made "burrows" or bunkers that are really just ground level shelters. When a 30 year pattern is disrupted and a tortoise starts bringing itself above ground during our middle of winter rainstorms, they can come down with respiratory infections, stay to warm and burn too much of their fat reserves, get too cold and freeze, etc... In my opinion, the best time to move one of these guys is AFTER hibernation, once they are back up eating and rehydrated after their winter slumber. I have often seen it cause problems when a move is made just before or during hibernation... Kind of like what you are seeing.

This is why I think the safest course of action for you is to warm him up artificially a little early this year. Just make sure he is plenty warm, not just a little warm, and make sure he stays hydrated. A damp cold garage or basement will be difficult to do this in. Cold damp nights will likely make him sick. So warm and dry is the ticket for the next few months.


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## azkeyrealtor (Dec 15, 2012)

I would call Dr. Driggers as he's the Vet that specializes in Sonoran Desert Tortoises first thing in the morning. I have called him soo many times and he and his staff are always helpful. He is also the VET they recommend for the once a year check to see if your TORTE is healthy enough for hibernation.


Dr. Driggers even has a 24 hr emergency number. here's his website.

http://aeacarizona.com/


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## Patr1ck (Dec 15, 2012)

Tom said:


> In my opinion, the best time to move one of these guys is AFTER hibernation, once they are back up eating and rehydrated after their winter slumber. I have often seen it cause problems when a move is made just before or during hibernation... Kind of like what you are seeing.



I agree. His need for a new home came suddenly though. What temp would be a good one for him during the day time? Its 80 in his enclosure right now.


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## Tom (Dec 15, 2012)

I would start with 70-80 in most of the enclosure but with a large heated spot where he can warm up to 95-100 when he wants to during the day.


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## Patr1ck (Dec 16, 2012)

So, I've built her an enclosure thats @ 4.5ft x 2.5ft, filled the bottom with coco coir, put a water dish in there that is big enough for her to sit in if she wants, heated her enclosure to @ 90 in one corner and @ 78 on the other side, and offered her some Bermuda grass and spinach. Yesterday was the first day she was in there after hibernating. She peered out, looked at her lamp, looked around and decided to get up and walk around her pen. She then drank alot of water, pooped, walked around some more and went to the corner that is the furthest from the light and heat and has spent most of her time there today. She was really active yesterday after she woke up but today has spent most of her time in the corner except one time to the water dish. I haven't seen her eat yet. Is this behavior normal given the circumstances or is this something I need to be alarmed about?

Thanks


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## Laura (Dec 16, 2012)

considering your other post about submerging his head and drinking foa long time.. I think this tortoise was dehydrated and its a good thing it rained.. 
Did they offer water to him in his other house?


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## Patr1ck (Dec 16, 2012)

He got water from their drip system and sprinklers.


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