# Can someone explain UVB bulbs to me?



## fifthdawn (Nov 4, 2009)

Its for my turtles not tortoise. I don't remember when I last purchased the bulb, but I think its about to be 6 month soon so I'll need to replace it. I don't remember which bulb I bought or anything about UVB since its quite some time ago.

I came across http://www.reptilesupply.com/product.php?products_id=1816 

They're only about 11 dollars which seems much cheaper than any other UVB bulb since most are around 25 dollars. Anyone use this bulb or why it might cost so cheap?

Also whats the difference between a 5.0 and 10.0 bulb? Does the watt determine how far it shoots? I keep my current UVB lights at about 12 inchs away. They also have "Full spectrum" "Desert" and "Tropical"

Any recommendation on what bulb to get? I'm pretty confused right now. Or would it even make that big of a difference? 

I was thinking maybe the 13 watt 10.0 desert bulb would provide enough UVB for my turts.


----------



## Meg90 (Nov 4, 2009)

Stay away from coiled bulbs. They will cause eye issues and blindness in your turtle/tortoises.

You need a mercury vapor bulb, or a tube UVB bulb.

What species are you buying for? That determines the wattage you need.


----------



## fifthdawn (Nov 4, 2009)

Hmm, the one I've used for past year has been coiled. The screen top probably blocked much of the intensity of the rays. I have 3 RES and 2 S. Painteds. In 90 gallon and 50 gallon tank.

I can't exactly change the environment to fit the tube and still fit the basking lamp. I would also have to sacrafice water level to give them correct distance from tub which would drop water levels by at least 20-30 gallons. And one of the tanks have an above tank basking area, which is setup where its impossible to fit a tube unless there are very very short tubes.

One tank and its above tank basking area is too small to fit a mercury vapor without frying them. I can probably fit one on the other tank but I'll need to find a way to hang it from the ceiling.

Can you explain the difference between 5.0 and 10.0 and what watt does for it since it doesn't provide heat?

Thanks.


----------



## Yvonne G (Nov 4, 2009)

In my opinion, you don't need a UV light for water turtles. They are better at getting their vitamin d from their food than tortoises are.

Yvonne


----------



## Redfoot NERD (Nov 4, 2009)

emysemys said:


> In my opinion, you don't need a UV light for water turtles. They are better at getting their vitamin d from their food than tortoises are.
> 
> Yvonne



Herbivorous turtles have to bask because they DON'T get the required UVB from plant matter. The sunshine is where they get the UVB.

Omnivorous forest tortoises get their needed D3 from their diet.. because they don't bask - when seen in the sunshine it's mainly to raise their body temps.

R NERD


----------



## Madkins007 (Nov 4, 2009)

Let's give it a try. I used to work in the electrical department of a local hardware chain.

When you buy a light, there are several factors involved.

WATTS is how much energy it sucks in, which affects how much light it throws out, and how 'hard' or far. All other things being equal, a higher wattage bulb puts out more light which travels further. higher wattage also equals more heat.

With fluorescent tubes, longer bulbs equal more watts.

UVB RATINGS are generally worthless, except within a product line. With ZooMed, a 10.0 puts out about twice as much UVB as a 5.0. Sadly, it does not compare to any industry standard so it is hard to compare brands to other brands. Also, a lot of what most of these guys say about their bulbs is pure marketing hype.

UVB is produced in different ways, but in fluorescent lights, it comes from the powdery stuff lining the inside of the bulb. The 10.0 just has more powder that emits UVB rays than the 5.0. Regardless of the package claims, the rays do not go much further between the two in the same wattage of a bulb. With an 14w bulb (typical 18" tube), the UVB rays go about 18" or so before they peter out. A 10.0 might toss them a but further, but not by much.

Coiling a fluorescent tube makes a more intense beam out of the end, but one study found that some UVB models make TOO intense of a UVB beam to be safe. They also generally make a very small basking area.



A small, short-term study by a zoo showed no difference in growth between two groups of Red-ear Sliders where one group had good UVB and the other did not. It was not a perfect study, but it does suggest that a proper Slider diet with adequate proteins offers much of the vitamin D they need. I would not take it as the last word in UVB for aquatics, but it would make me stress about it less.

I'd go ahead and use a 5.0 UVB 18" bulb, but put some baffling between it and the water if you cannot get 12" away from the basking site. A fine screen or mesh, or that small open grid plastic stuff they use in overhead fluorescent lamps would all work fine.

You can also try a 'bent' fluorescent bulb- not quite as bad as a coiled version- http://www.reptilesupply.com/product.php?products_id=434. Used in an aluminum-lined reflector, you can kind of 'point' it at the basking site and get a few more inches away.



Redfoot NERD said:


> emysemys said:
> 
> 
> > In my opinion, you don't need a UV light for water turtles. They are better at getting their vitamin d from their food than tortoises are.
> ...



Except... Sliders, etc. are omnivores, even as adults (yes, a LOT of plants, but still some meats), and no one has scientifically proven that forest species DO NOT need UVB light. They can do without it, obviously, but that is very different than what you said... unless you have a source?


----------



## fifthdawn (Nov 4, 2009)

Hmm, I'm a little iffy about RES not needing UVB. I'm also member at a turtles forum and that would contradicts everything everyones told or said for the past 3 years.

I've heard of people raising it without UVB but they have V3 supplement but those are the people who are extremely knowledgable on the amount of V3 to give since its poisonous otherwise.

As for the eye problem, I haven't heard of coil causing problem yet, but the reptisup compact has been know to cause problems. I've read that 2 years ago so I'm not sure if its still the same or if they changed the product by now. Source: http://www.uvguide.co.uk/phototherapyphosphor.htm Same source I've came upon 2 years ago.


----------



## Madkins007 (Nov 5, 2009)

fifthdawn said:


> Hmm, I'm a little iffy about RES not needing UVB. I'm also member at a turtles forum and that would contradicts everything everyones told or said for the past 3 years.
> 
> I've heard of people raising it without UVB but they have V3 supplement but those are the people who are extremely knowledgable on the amount of V3 to give since its poisonous otherwise.
> 
> As for the eye problem, I haven't heard of coil causing problem yet, but the reptisup compact has been know to cause problems. I've read that 2 years ago so I'm not sure if its still the same or if they changed the product by now. Source: http://www.uvguide.co.uk/phototherapyphosphor.htm Same source I've came upon 2 years ago.



UVB and sliders: Since I don't keep them and don't plan to, I don't have a real opinion on this. As I said, it was an imperfect study, but I would tend to offer UVB in general without more concrete proof. I just would not worry so much about the intensity, spacing, etc.

Coils cause problems other than eyes, including badly shaped basking areas and 'hot spots'. Besides, when there are better options around, why bother? The low price alone should be a warning.


----------



## Maggie Cummings (Nov 5, 2009)

I have a big onery female RES who I have raised without any UVB. She doesn't even get calcium w/D3. And she is healthy and big and mean as hell.
I had 3 hatchling Sulcata under a coil UVB bulb one died, one was blinded and I gave the third away to save it.
At first the blind one was blinded in both eyes. But as soon as I removed the bulb he started to heal. 3 years and a buncha money later he has diminished sight in one eye and is blind in the other...so please don't doubt that the coil bulbs are bad news...
here's one shot of his eye, I have more somewhere that I'd be glad to find if you are really interested. this is the eye that has diminished sight. His other eye is completely covered by the swollen nictitating membrane...






This was the first time I discovered that tortoises could feel pain. I'd go to get Tony (named after Tony Stewart)to put him outside and his eyes would both be swollen worse then that and they'd be weeping and he hurt so bad he'd be drooling and foaming at the mouth. It would make me cry that he would hurt so bad. It was just awful. I'd put him in for a soak and I'd put ointment on his eyes and that would soothe them and he would stop foaming. It was really awful for him, he hurt super bad...and to add to the trouble, because his eyes hurt he'd rub them on his rough spurs and that would make them hurt worse...I know those coiled bulbs are bad news and I will show this kind of pictures to anyone who doubts me and wants to use those bulbs. Until you've seen a tortoise foaming in pain you just haven't seen anything...


----------



## fifthdawn (Nov 6, 2009)

Don't get me wrong, I'm not doubting coil bulbs are bad. I just doubting they not needing UVB.

Whats your diet for your RES like?


----------



## Madkins007 (Nov 6, 2009)

Fifth- (Again, remember, I really don't care about Red-ears, but...) don't forget that people have kept them successfully as pets long before UVB was readily available to the average keeper (and I don't mean the poor deluded souls who kept them for only a year or less under horrible conditions because of what the pet store said.)

We've debated this in the past and on several other forums, and the consensus seems to be that they probably don't NEED UVB, but probably do better with it. As a consciencious keeper, I want to do the best I can, so I would offer UVB.


----------



## fifthdawn (Nov 6, 2009)

I'm not doubting it can't be done either. I've known a few keeper who have kept them without UVB. But I'm sure they give them the proper diet.

None of my turtles eat anything but pellets. So I'm pretty sure thats not enough to provide all the nutritional need which is why I choose to provide UVB. lol I'm not really trying to get into a debate. I just wanna know what bulb to get if for those that go the UVB route.


----------



## Madkins007 (Nov 26, 2009)

I just found something interesting and posted it here: http://tortoiseforum.org/thread-5893-post-91359.html#pid91359. It shows something pretty cool about vitamin D production in several bulbs.


----------

