# One care sheet to rule them all?



## Madkins007 (May 24, 2010)

There has long been a rather quiet debate over whether or not most tortoises benefit from a similar care program. I have to admit that I am rapidly becoming a believer in the idea that perhaps we could create a generic care sheet and then add notes on how to adapt it for young torts, and some specific species needs.

So... here is a caresheet with that in mind, posted in several parts. Your job, should you choose to accept it, is to blow it apart. That is, show us where it is wrong and why. I do politely request that the attacks be based on research or experience and not beliefs, out-dated teachings, or abstract theory.

Important note: This is an experiment. It IS NOT MEANT to be an actual care sheet (at least at this point)!

TORTOISE CARE- HOUSING

SIZE- The bigger the better, within reason. Aim for a minimum of about 8 shell lengths by 4 shell lengths to allow enough room to explore and exercise. Increase the size if adding more tortoises (doubling it would be nice). 

HIDES- Provide an assortment of shelters if possible, with one shelter being very humid. Shelters can include plants to hide under, boxes or tubs turned upside down, flowerpots on their sides, etc. [Note that here we could provide examples of a 'humid hide', as well as more types of shelters]

SUBSTRATE- Many substrates have proven to be effective and each has its pros and cons. Here are a few commonly used versions-
- Plain cypress or similar mulch is perhaps the easiest. 
- A mixture of sand, soil, and materials like peat moss, long-fibered sphagnum moss, coconut coir (Bed-A-Beast), etc. can mimic the behaviors of natural dirt, especialy with the addition of worms, isopods, and some outdoor soil for the beneficial micro-organisms. A layer of a dryer mulch on top helps prevent any moisture problems. This should be raked and mixed periodicially for maximum effectiveness.
- Teased and dampened long-fibered sphagnum moss is helpful for young tortoises.

WATER- Tortoises should always have access to fresh drinking water. A good water dish is set flush to the substrate surface, big enough for the tortoise to sit in, deep enough that it can immerse it's head to drink, shallow enough that it can sit in it safely- no more than about 1/3-1/2 of the shell's height, easy to climb into and out of, and made of materials that you would feel safe drinking out of. [Examples of dishes can be offered here.]

Wash the dish often and keep it filled. You can help keep it cleaner by positioning it away from a wall or main pathway and surrounding it with a 'patio' of some sort so the tortoise is not dragging in mud and substrate.

OUTDOORS- Most tortoises do best outside. In general, the night temps should be over 70F for young tortoises and 65F for adults. The pen should be both escape proof and predator proof. [Notes as to how to do this can be added here.]

The ideal tortoise pen offers plenty of hiding places and shelters, cool shade and open sunny areas, and live plants to hide under or forage on. They also offer relief from exces heat, such as misters, mud puddles, etc. [Add a list of tortoise plants here.]

INDOOR HOUSING- Aquariums can be used for very small tortoises, but these are generally heavy, stuffy, and expensive- especialy as the tortoise grows. Large plastic tubs are cheap and easy to make into good homes for small and medium tortoises. Tortoise tables are open-topped habitiats similar to a bookcase on its back that offer a lot of space for growing or large animals. [Discuss how to modify a tub and build a table here.]

ENHANCEMENTS- We can make the housing more interesting for our tortoises by adding things like different substrates (an area of smooth rocks, a mud puddle, etc.), gentle hills (many species really like hills!), using real (and safe) plants, etc. 


..................................

Thoughts, concerns, alternative ideas? I'll post one on environment, and another on diet over the next few days- and of course, anyone else can do the same.

The goal here is to see if this is possible. COULD we, in theory, write a care booklet that would work for all commonly kept tortoises, with small comments about different issues for different species, like Ed/EJ and others have suggested?


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## chadk (May 24, 2010)

I like to provide hides on the warm end and the cool end so they have a choice. I also like them to have digable substrate in the hides. All my torts seem to enjoy burying themselves in a nice blanket of dirt when they go to sleep in their hides. (my hatchlings bury themselves in the moist spag moss). And I like hides that are dark and 'snug'. A tiny tort going into a massive flower pot or huge box is not really a 'hide'. 

A discussion of UVA vs UVB and different bulb and heat sources would be good. Seems lots of folks get confused on that.


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## terryo (May 24, 2010)

That's really cool Mark. I don't know anything about tortoises, but I've had boxie's for over thirty years, and that would apply to boxie care also. (generally speaking...the one's I keep anyway)


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## purpod (May 24, 2010)

Greetings Mark,

You may want to mention that there are aquariums made specifically for tort's, that are low (avoiding the stuffiness) and large (allowing for a more significant base size than a regular aquarium). I have a "bedroom" for my tort's that sits atop my entertainment center & measures 4'Lx2'Wx10"H. I was lucky & purchased it from a local pet store who had it for sale for only $35.00!

For the most part, my tort's are outside in a 10'x10' 'home', but sleep inside at night, as they are youngsters.

Anyways, just a thought,
Purpod


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## terryo (May 24, 2010)

Thirty Five dollars was a steal. I have the same one and paid...I think, if I remember correctly...$150.


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## purpod (May 24, 2010)

Indeed, Terry, I literally flew to the bank to grab the cash, lol! It was slightly used, but a good bleach water washing & much rinsing made the enclosure just like new (not that is was filthy or anything, but you know what I mean) ~

So there are some deals out there if one looks & acts quickly (with a bit of luck).. and it makes a great 'bedroom' for youngsters who need to sleep indoors ~ 

Have a great day 
Purpod


terryo said:


> Thirty Five dollars was a steal. I have the same one and paid...I think, if I remember correctly...$150.


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## Maggie Cummings (May 24, 2010)

They are called vivariums or vivs for short and they are more easily found in the UK and not here which is why Terry paid so much for hers. I am seeing them more here but you really have to search for them. I have one now with 4 small tortoises in it and I just love it. It's so much easier to regulate the heat. I had my friend make me one of wood but I don't like that one as much. Any how they are vivs and much better for torts then aquariums...

You might want to mention that tortoises kept inside will need UVB lighting and that it does not need to be on 14 hours a day. I keep a 100 watt incandescent bulb on 12 hours a day and about 3 times a week for 3 or 4 hours I turn on UVB lights for the animals that can't go outside yet. I do use calcium w/D3. Spring may be popping out all over but here in the Willamette Valley we are still cold and raining daily.


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## terryo (May 24, 2010)

For humidity loving tortoises, and boxies, I think they are the best. Years ago, my dad would cut off a few inches from his fish tanks and use them for his boxie hatchlings. Today they are a lot easier to find and most pet stores sell them as breeder tanks.


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## Madkins007 (May 24, 2010)

Many good points. 

It seems to me that if there indeed IS 'ONE CARE SHEET', then we could issue it as a double-side piece of paper as a starter, a booklet as an expansion, but the COOL THING would be that you could do a book that goes into a lot of detail- how to waterproof a tortoise table, nutritional charts, the 'why' behind the instructions, etc.- the stuff that is all too often missing from most care instructions.


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## purpod (May 25, 2010)

Salutations ~

Yes, indeed, including things such as what has been mentioned is sure to make even a novice tort or turt owner better prepared & equipped to create an environment where thriving is not just an option, but a reality.

Good luck with it,
Purpod


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## chairman (May 25, 2010)

If there is a generic care sheet that can be used for the majority of tortoise species, what reason are we going to offer for why torts of different species can't live together? Diet is too easy an obstacle to overcome, size differences and aggressiveness need to be dealt with when only 1 species is kept, and the parasite thing is hard to sell to a lot of newbies.

But more to the spirit of the thread, I think one care sheet might get a little sloppy looking because of the various exceptions that would need to be made in some sections... perhaps 2 could do the trick? Grassland tortoises and forest tortoises? Differences that come to my mind are lighting requirements (visible and UV spectrums), temperatures (forest torts usually like it cooler and don't seem to bask), and diet (forest torts get animal protein, fruit regularly).


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## purpod (May 25, 2010)

Good posting, Chairman Mike ~


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## Madkins007 (May 25, 2010)

chairman said:


> If there is a generic care sheet that can be used for the majority of tortoise species, what reason are we going to offer for why torts of different species can't live together? Diet is too easy an obstacle to overcome, size differences and aggressiveness need to be dealt with when only 1 species is kept, and the parasite thing is hard to sell to a lot of newbies.
> 
> But more to the spirit of the thread, I think one care sheet might get a little sloppy looking because of the various exceptions that would need to be made in some sections... perhaps 2 could do the trick? Grassland tortoises and forest tortoises? Differences that come to my mind are lighting requirements (visible and UV spectrums), temperatures (forest torts usually like it cooler and don't seem to bask), and diet (forest torts get animal protein, fruit regularly).



This was my thought for a long time- forest vs. grassland, but more and more I think that there may be few REAL differences there.

Light- deep forest species like it dimmer- that can be handled in a single sentence. From what I can find in field notes, forest torts do bask, especially after long sunless periods. It would be interesting to see an actual study on basking periods in various species- when, why, how long, etc. There may not be as much difference here as we think since most tortoises are so shy by nature.

Temps- most torts seem to overlap nicely at about 80F. If we offered a 75-85 range, is there a species that is commonly kept that would be stressed by that? I know some species can tolerate higher and lower temps, but would they be happy in this range?

Diet- Forests are more omnivorous, but do they NEED to be? Most of my research is based on Red-foots, and most current authors seem to feel pretty strongly that they do not NEED fruit or meat in an otherwise proper diet. Of course, issues like this are why I posted this in the debate section! 

Multiple species- I often wonder about the reality of this. Zoos, breeders, large scale keepers, etc. often mix species freely with rare problems, and it has been said in this forum before that a lot of people give lip service to it without practicing it themselves.

I KNOW that the issues of cross-contamination are real, but managable (quarantines, preventative cares, etc.), and that the biggest example of the problem seems to affect mostly wild Desert Tortoises. 

Personally, I think the biggest risks are interspecific interactions. The subtle bullying, big ones walking over little ones, jostling for food and shelter, etc. all add to the stresses of daily life and wear down the immune system. I think it gets even worse between species that do not use the same body language or cues, or that are known for being rather aggressive, and so on. 

This may be another thread, but perhaps the guidelines should be to avoid: any crowding, mixing big and little, mixing quiet and active/aggressive, etc.? And, of course, to be sure to use proper quarantine and hygiene procedures.


NOTE: I AM NOT disagreeing- just wondering- hence the 'debate' element!


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## chairman (May 25, 2010)

The temperature problem, especially basking temps, is the one I see to be the biggest. It could be addressed in one sentence, but it had better be bold or in capital letters. My poor hingebacks would probably estivate their lives away in a sulcata enclosure; they rarely want anything to do with temps in the mid 80's, let alone 90-100. And I'm not sure that my sulcata could adequately digest its food in my hingeback enclosure, which is usually set from 70 to 80.

As for diet, because forest species don't absorb a lot of sunlight I think they need the D2/D3 they find in prey to be healthy. In the grand scheme of things I don't think it'd be harmful to recommend "feeding" all tortoises live worms. The forest torts would hunt them down and the grassland torts would ignore them, allowing the worms to process waste materials in the substrate. The difference would be that your sulcata would be living on top of a worm farm while you would have to maintain a separate worm farm to keep up with your forest tortoise's apetite.

Mixing species is a beat-the-dead-horse debate until more data comes in, but I think that any generic care sheet should specifically warn against it so the phrase "and in the darkness bind them" doesn't apply to this care sheet too.


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## Maggie Cummings (May 25, 2010)

There's many good points brought up that show just why there isn't a generic care sheet.
Any worms would die in the heat of a Sulcata enclosure. So I don't think that Marks point about them living on top of a worm farm is valid...Heaven knows I have killed many a worm under a hot basking light.
When I was a new keeper and just starting to head start Gopherus agassizii for a turtle and tortoise rescue I put the hatchlings in with my Sulcata. At that time I had 3 Sulcata yearlings all growing and healthy. This was years ago so details evade my memory now but the Sulcata started acting not just right so I took them to the Vet and he found a parasite who's name evades me as well. So then I took the Gopherus hatchlings to the vet and they were loaded with this parasite but growing and thriving. So the vet decided the parasites were normally in the host Gopherus and not normally in the now not thriving Sulcata.
Since that time I don't ever mix species. I know there are experienced keepers who do mix species but I think because they ARE experienced they would know what signs to watch for when a new animal is introduced to the resident colony.
I also think it's important to mention that chelonia are not dogs and cats and they shouldn't be kept like them ie: not living on the floor of your apartment. There are so many new keepers especially in India and China and smaller countries like that and they get a tortoise and keep it like a dog and then get on the forum looking for answers when the animal gets sick from living on the floor of a house or an apartment. But I don't know how you could say that in a politically correct way.
So those are my thoughts now...


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## chadk (May 25, 2010)

Worms would live fine in my indoor sulcata enclosure. I have a hot end in the mid 80's with 2 basking areas in the mid to upper 90s. But the rest of the enclosure is more like 70-75. And then I have 6 inches of moist substrate. The area around and under my water dish would be very popular with the worms I'm sure.

Outdoors, my tort yard is stuffed with worms and other bugs, slugs, snails, etc.

As for the hingeback and sullie situation, I bet they would both live comfortably in the setup I have. With enough space, you can create several microclimates from high humidity to low humidity and from very hot areas to moderately cool areas.


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## dmmj (May 25, 2010)

where's frodo?


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## Madkins007 (May 25, 2010)

I've been waiting for Lord of the Rings references to pop up with this title!

OK, temp question- Is the issue the SPECIES, the AGE, and/or the HABITAT SIZE? In other words, you are saying 95ish for Sulcata and 80ish for Hinge-back. Would you do 95F for young Sulcata in a smallish tub? Would you worry about 95F in a corner of a 10'x10' tortoise pen for Hinge-backs?

I AM NOT up on Sulcata care (living in Omaha on a small plot it seems cruel to even think about keeping them or Leopards) so I am just asking. Do Sulcata need a large 95F area, or just pretty much a tortoise-sized area?

As for the affect temps have on the 'one sheet' idea, it would be easy enough to discuss temps without specifics, then a simple chart of which species want warmer or cooler ranges if it came to that.



chairman said:


> As for diet, because forest species don't absorb a lot of sunlight I think they need the D2/D3 they find in prey to be healthy. In the grand scheme of things I don't think it'd be harmful to recommend "feeding" all tortoises live worms. The forest torts would hunt them down and the grassland torts would ignore them, allowing the worms to process waste materials in the substrate. The difference would be that your sulcata would be living on top of a worm farm while you would have to maintain a separate worm farm to keep up with your forest tortoise's apetite.



Based on what little I can find on the issue, worms are not a real great source of D3, but fungi are rich in D2, and a common tort food.

There is a quite reasonable theory that forest species eat omnivorously because so much of the plant life in the forest is so nutritionally poor. What carbs, sugars, vitamins, minerals, etc. plants can spare goes into the fruits to help the next generation. To oversimplify, in this theory, forest torts eat greens for fiber and water, then fruits and meats for other nutrients.

As mentioned, most of this is from research on Red-foots, which are sort of a half-way species between grassy and foresty, so it may not apply at all to Hinge-backs, etc.


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## purpod (May 25, 2010)

Maggie brings up a good point about the parasites; an inexperienced tort keeper may not have caught that the sullie starting "acting not just right"...

Also, I know my leopards like the heat turned up, so altho 80F would do, it would not be ideal...

Lots of good thoughts going around ~ 
Nice, civil debatable topic, Mark ~
Purpod


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## Madkins007 (May 25, 2010)

It seems that most of the parasite cross problems I have heard of involve Sulcata and/or Desert. We know Desert are very susceptible to picking up infections from other species and if I was adding to my 'no-no' rules for multi-species housing it would be to keeper US native species apart from anything else.


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## Madkins007 (Jun 29, 2010)

OK, so my theory of one care sheet has not taken any fatal hits so far. Temps seems to be one area of concern, but I have a plan for that, so lets try Part 2 now.

WARNING and DISCLAIMER: This IS NOT meant to be a working care sheet. It is being offered for discussion and debate.

.........................................

GENERAL TORTOISE CARE- ENVIRONMENT

Like all animals, tortoises need the right temperatures, heating, humidity, and so on to be healthy and happy. unfortunately, the preferred climate for a tortoise is a bit different than that of most people in the US and Europe, so we usually cannot let them just roam around in our houses, or keep them without providing some heating, etc.

HEATING.
Most tortoises do well in a range of temperatures, called a thermal gradiant. The idea is to offer a comfortable and naturalistic range of temperatures so the tortoise can find the temperature it needs for the moment. For example, they often digest their meals in a warm area, but rest in a cooler one.

Common temperature ranges for commonly-kept tortoises are:
Many species- 78F to 88F
Warmer species (fill in the space with species names and temp range)
Cooler species (fill in the space with species names and temp ranges)

The most common way to offer a gradiant is to combine ambient temps and spot heating.

Ambient temp is the term for the background, room, or general air temp. If your room is already 75F or so, then it is already good for the low end of the temperature gradient (depending on the species, as menitoned above). If your room is cooler, you may need aditional heating to raise it a bit- at least in the tortoise habitat.

Spot heating is most often done by suspending a heating source over the habitat to heat an area to the upper range of the gradient for the species. Many types of bulbs can be used, each with its own pros and cons. A common heating element is a ceramic heat emitter, which does not put out visible light. That makes it very useful, especially at night when light-emitting bulbs would interfer with the sleep cycle. We will mention other bulb options later.

It is important that you be able to monitor and control the heat. You should have some thermometers in the habitat, at least in the hot and cool ends. The thermometers do not need to be perfectly accurate but they do need to be reliable and readable. 

You can control the temp in a couple different ways. The easiest is to use a thermostatic control that allows you to set a target temperature and the heater will tun on and off automatically to maintain the temp. Another and cheaper option is to raise or lower the heater to get the right temps. In any event, the big risks are overheating the tortoises and accidental fires or burns, so you need to be careful and follow manufacturer's directions and use common sense.


LIGHTING:
In nature and in captivity, lighting and heating are related. Also as with heating, our goal is to offer a reasonably natural lighting cycle. Most of what we are going to talk about here applies to indoor cares since the sun and nature will take care of them outside.

Duration and brightness. Most tortoises seem to do well with about 12 hours of light and 12 hours of darkness indoors, although varying the cycles to mimic their native conditions may help with breeding, etc. A simple timer helps with this. Young tortoises and some deep forest species (like Yellow-foots and Hinge-backs) tend to avoid bright lights, but most other tortoises do not seem bothered by the brightness of most lights used for reptiles, within reason. Make sure all of your tortoises have easy access to shade and hides.

UV lighting. This is a rather complicated, confusing, and debated topic. The basic idea is that all animals need some vitamin D to help build bones and for their nervous system and so on, but few food sources offer much vitamin D natually- oily fish, beef liver, eggs, and fungi. Most animals get at least some of their vitamin D by making in their skin as a result of exposure to light in the 296nanometers range, the upper end of what we call UVB light.

It is usually considered a good practice to provide some UVB lighting for tortoises. Many light bulbs provide UV light, but we need to make sure that we use bulbs that specifically state 'UVB' to ensure we are getting what we need. You can also find some bulbs that provide UVB, visible light, and heat all in one. 

Some brands of coiled compact flourescant bulbs had a problem in the past where the shape allowed them to emit a beam of UVB so intense it caused eye problems. This has supposedly been corrected, but it may be best to avoid them, or at least point them so the tip does not face the tortoises.

With any bulb, follow the manufacturers instructions (including recommendations for replacement) and use common sense.

HUMIDITY.
One of the biggest myths of raising tortoises is that they are from very dry areas so do not need humidity. It has been shown that all young tortoises benefit from appropriatly high levels of humidity- it is known to help control the shell condition called 'pyramiding'. Proper levels of humidity also help combat dehydration, one of the most common tortoise health issues.

Like temperature, humidity is usually best done in a gradient, from 'ambient humidity' to an area of high humidity, such as a hide (as discussed under 'enclosures'). The ambient humidity can be rather low (40-50%) for most species. If your house is very dry, you may need to provide supplemental humidity to keep the tortoises happy. On the other hand, Yellow-foot and Hinge-back Tortoises are examples of tortoises that want much higher ambient humidities- 80% or more.

Also like temperature, you need to be able to monitor and adjust your humidity. Again, it is more important that your guages be reliable and easy to use than that they be perfectly accurate. You can raise humidity by reducing air flow (but not too much or you get mold and other problems), using a hand or automatic mister, adding live plants, and many other ways. You can reduce humidity by increasing the air flow. 

There are many ways to provide the right heat, light, and humidity needed for our tortoises and we have just touched the basics. To learn more, try some of the resources listed at the end of the care sheet. [Provide some good books, websties, etc.]

.....................................


I would like to edit this down quite a bit, but foolishly, I am working in a reply window instead of a word processor and cutting and pasting it in, and I need to get off the computer for a while.

So- hammer away. Again- let's try to stick to known benefits and ideas and remember what the goal here is.

Thanks!


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## chadk (Jun 29, 2010)

I think the part where you say "UV lighting" is redundant. All light is UV.

In the discussion of humidity, it seems appropriate to touch on the importance of a good substrate that will hold moisture.

Found a few typos:

"The basic idea is that all animals need some vitamin D to help build bones and for their nervous system and so on, but few food sources offer much vitamin D natually- oily fish, beef liver, eggs, and fungi. Most animals get at least some of their vitamin D by making in their skin as a result of exposure to light in the 296nanometers range, the upper end of what we call UVB light."


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## Madkins007 (Jun 29, 2010)

chadk said:


> I think the part where you say "UV lighting" is redundant. All light is UV.
> 
> In the discussion of humidity, it seems appropriate to touch on the importance of a good substrate that will hold moisture.
> 
> ...



Thanks for catching the typos! 

Substrate was covered in the 'enclosure' chapter (although not in depth. In a simple care sheet, it is tough to do ANYTHING in depth).

The bit that confused me is the 'all lighting is UV' bit. Only light in a specific range, 10 to 400 nanometers, is UV. Visible light and IR are not UV. Nor do all bulbs put out UV light in usable levels. Could you clarify what you meant here?


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## chadk (Jun 29, 2010)

Sorry, I posted without thinking  I meant that all light is radation (electromagnetic radiation) - but that is another topic (see the post about microwaves and cell phones a while back  )


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## chairman (Jun 30, 2010)

I think the lighting and heating sections should be comined into one section. Also, have "day heat/light" and "night heat/light" sub-sections. Toss in a couple product plugs for bulbs that provide both UVA/UVB (I know we're not getting paid here, but there are a lot of incorrect lighting choices available) and a brief instructional on the use of cheap timers and you're all set there.


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## Kristina (Jul 4, 2010)

You know, I never read this thread until now. I guess I should have. I feel like a total turd for posting the thread I just did. I am so sorry, I was not trying to step on any toes.


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## Stephanie Logan (Jul 5, 2010)

I'm officially volunteering to disseminate these care sheets to our local Petsmart, PetCo, and Taco's veterinarian. I'll also call other places and ask if I can fax them some to put near their tortoise cages/products.

Got to get that word out. 

It would be nice to put the TortoiseForum.org address on the bottom somewhere "for further information and discussion of tortoise care" or something like that.


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## Madkins007 (Jul 5, 2010)

Thanks, Stephanie, that encourages me to put more polish to the existing sheets and finish the last in the series- diet and basic cares.

Putting TFO's name on them officially would be presumptuous at this point unless the TFO administration puts their stamp of approval on the project. I can certainly issue it under my name and include the TFO as a primary resource, though!

One of my goals, however, remains to have the TFO or someone similar maintain a library of well written articles we can offer for reprint and distribution, offer to new keepers, etc.


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## PeanutbuttER (Jul 5, 2010)

Madkins007 said:


> One of my goals, however, remains to have the TFO or someone similar maintain a library of well written articles we can offer for reprint and distribution, offer to new keepers, etc.



I really really like this idea!

For new members and new tort keepers, there is a ridiculous amount of information on this site, but it's spread out all over the site and watered down with conversations that don't apply to the topic directly. It took me quite a while to read and read through probably hundreds of threads until I got to the point where I actually could feel comfortable with saying I have any solid idea about how to keep tortoises. It would be so great to have an area of dense information to consult.


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## Madkins007 (Jul 6, 2010)

kyryah said:


> You know, I never read this thread until now. I guess I should have. I feel like a total turd for posting the thread I just did. I am so sorry, I was not trying to step on any toes.



Pshaw! I thought it was funny, and a sign that there is a lot of interest in the topic. 

Like PeanutButter said- there is a lot of stuff going on in the forum. I doubt many of us know what is happening in every corner!

Don't sweat it.


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## Madkins007 (Jul 8, 2010)

The last and possibly most debatable installment.

Reminder- this is offered just for consideration and discussion, not as a finished product!


FEEDING A TORTOISE

The American Zoo Association's Nutritional Advisory Group suggests that animal diets be nutritionally complete, encourage natural feeding behavior, consistently eaten, and be practical and economical. This makes sense and is really not hard to do for tortoises.

Most but not all tortoises do best on what is called the 'Weed Diet'. This is a diet based on using a variety of yard and garden plants and grocery store offerings. You will notice that the basic Weed Diet does not have fruit or vegetables in it. This is because they can be more harmful than helpful to some species. We will discuss modifications of the Weed Diet for other species in a bit.

THE WEED DIET
In general, we prefer foods that are still growing, then freshly picked, etc. If we need to use store-bought greens, we want to wash them and soak them in cold water for about 15 minutes before using them to restore as much of the original moisture as possible.

Things we can use for the Weed Diet include:
- Common yard plants, like most grasses, dandelions, plantain, vetch, thistle, grape leaves, mulberry leaves, etc.
- Edible flowering and decorative plants like violet, rose, pansy, geraniums, daises, zinnias, marigolds, hibiscus, nasturtium, chrysanthemum, fern, fig, Opuntia cacti (pads, fruits, flowers), etc.
- Grocery store offerings like lettuces, greens, dandelion, spinach, kale, cactus pads, and cabbage. Bagged salad mixes with a variety of lettuce colors and shapes are very helpful. (Spinach and light green lettuces, like Iceberg or Romaine, should only be used sparingly as part of a rotation.)

We want to avoid known dangerous plants, like lily, ivy, yew, foxglove, oak, the common 'Christmas plants', and tobacco.

Practice variety, especially when using grocery store options- buy different mixes or greens each time, try to us different plants each meal, etc. This helps make sure that the tortoises are getting all of the nourishment they need.

We can supplement their diet with a pinch of pure calcium carbonate powder a couple of times a week (especially if the diet has been heavy in flowers and lettuces that week). A small pinch of a multivitamin powder (such as a crushed human multivitamin) can be offered weekly as well as insurance.

Commercially prepared diets are widely available and may look like an interesting option, but many are not cost effective or complete enough to consider. We recommend avoiding them until you know enough to make an informed decision.

FRUIT AND MEAT EATERS- THE FOREST TORTOISES
Most tortoises are not designed to easily digest too much fruit or meat, although none of them will be really hurt by an occasional berry or worm snack. The 'forest tortoises', however, are designed to digest a wider range of foods.

Yellow-foots, and Hinge-backs are common forest-dwelling species that supplement the native plants with unusually low nutrient levels by feeding on fruits, bugs, worms, and carrion. (Red-foot Tortoises are popularly called 'forest tortoises', but really do not need as much fruit or meat as these others.)

About a quarter of the food offered to a forest tortoise should be fruit, or vegetables with seeds. The best options include figs, papaya, mango, kiwi, melons, pineapple, bell peppers, squash, and plum. Almost any fruit can be offered, although we should avoid hot peppers and most citrus (an occasional naval orange is OK.) Although not a fruit, mushrooms are a very good food for forest tortoises and American Box Turtles.

A small portion of meat can be offered every week or two to forest tortoises, or more often to American Box Turtles. This can be worms, many kinds of bugs and larvae, young rats or mice (often frozen- warm before using), slugs, snails, cooked chicken or organ meat, oily fish, or a high quality/low fat dog or cat food.

HOW MUCH TO FEED?
Wild tortoises tend to either nibble and graze all day, or gorge and sleep. In either case, they do not eat nearly as much as a same-sized mammal would and thrive in places where food is scarce. It is therefore really easy to over-feed a tortoise, which can make them obese or grow too rapidly and stress their bones and organs.

A couple of common feeding tricks include:
- Very small daily meal of good food, possibly with a later feeding of a lower nutrient 'bulky' food like lettuce or plant leaves (still in small amounts.)
- Removing uneaten food after about 15 minutes, again possibly offering a later bulky food.
- Offering larger meals, but less often. An adult tortoise may only be fed a real meal two or three times a week.

OTHER BASIC CARES

QUARANTINE AND SEPARATION
New tortoises should be kept separate for at least a couple of weeks to a couple of months (for wild-caught animals) to help ensure they are not going to pass a disease to your other tortoises. Ideally, we would also keep tortoises from different parts of the world in different habitats.

MEASUREMENTS AND RECORDS
You should measure, weigh, and even photograph your tortoise every month or so, especially when they are younger. This helps to make sure they are growing well and gives you a useful record to look back on. The most common measurement is the Straight-line Carapace Length (SCL), or the length of the shell, front to back, not measured on the curve. Consider using metric measurements for accuracy.

CLEANLINESS
Keeping the tortoises and their habitat clean is an important job. Carefully wash all food and water containers regularly, remove any uneaten food or wastes you find, and wash your hands before preparing food or after handling the tortoises or wastes.

SOAKING
A common but debated practice is to soak tortoises, especially young or possibly dehydrated animals. The idea is to let them sit in a pool of warm, clean water for a while- often until they defecate. Many keepers recommend weekly or so soaks.

HANDLING
Handle your tortoises as little as possible. In the wild, anything that picked up a tortoise was probably going to eat it, so it stresses them out. If you do pick it up, hold it securely and support its feet.

FOR MORE INFORMATION
There are several great books, websites, and other sources for good information. While things can change, a couple places to start for most species would include:
- http://www.tortoiseforum.org
- http://www.tortoisetrust.org
- http://www.austinsturtlepage.com
(These were off the top of my head- I am open to other general options!)

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I've also re-written the previous installments in what is now about 5.5 pages (including the above), longer than I wanted it. I'll send a preliminary copy to anyone who asks via PM to discuss and refine it further.

As for an 'official TF copy', no one has asked yet, and I don't know if there is any interest to do so.

I've got my fire-proof suit on. Do your worst!


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## chairman (Jul 9, 2010)

Probably won't be needing that fire-proof suit for this one...

I would think that cabbage ought to be left off the list. It is cheap, readily available, and too tempting to use as a staple. It could become the new iceberg lettuce. Let the new owners discover that cabbage can be added in occasionally later in the process, when they're doing research.

Add a listing of fresh hays that could be fed- timothy, clover, etc.

Adding a note about having a slate feeding station might be good.

Also, we probably ought to mention something about mazuri/zoomed natural. Too many people swear by it to ignore it, and it is great to have around when fresh food is temporarily unavailable.


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## Madkins007 (Jul 9, 2010)

Hays: d'Oh- my bad.

Mazuri: This was already in the text- "Commercially prepared diets are widely available and may look like an interesting option, but many are not cost effective or complete enough to consider. We recommend avoiding them until you know enough to make an informed decision."

Should I rewrite it somehow?

Slate: A comment about feeding stations probably would be helpful. Dr. ader recommends newspaper 'plates' that can be tossed after a use- interesting idea.

Cabbage: I'll change it if there is a reason to. What would you say is the problem with it? Its got a good water content, decent fiber (3mg/100gr), good calcium load (47mg/100gr) for a Ca: P of 2.05:1, vitamin A, and no oxalates.

The only problem I can find with cabbage, bok choy, or kale is that it is 'goiterogenic'- that is, if used as a main food item, it can promote goiter and similar problems in sensitive species. (All of the 'brassicas' or cabbage family do this.) The only hard records I can find of this being a problem are when Galapagos an Aldabaran Torts were fed iodine-deficient diets in captivity. 

I think this family of foods picked up a bad reputation in the 'old days' of 'cabbage and water' diets for tortoises, and the pendulum swung from 'use it a lot' to 'avoid totally', instead of falling in the 'a good part of a varied diet' zone.

In fact, most of the brassicas are useful, in my opinion, as a part of a varied diet- other than broccoli and cauliflower, they average a 2.3:1 Ca: P, offer good fiber, moisture and trace elements, and have very low oxalates. (Most of you already know that I think oxalates are oveblown as a concern, but these plants have almost none!) 

HOWEVER- I could be very wrong on this, which is why this is posted in debatables. I would love to hear other views!


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## Stephanie Logan (Jul 9, 2010)

I think that five pages is too long, but I know it's hard to NOT include details that are important, and there are so many!

I am just a novice, so cannot recommend edits, but I think you should trim it to one or two pages, so it could be a front-and-back page (folded) or a tri-fold pamphlet that could be stacked into a plastic display stand or in one of those wall mounted holders, for prominent visibility near the reptile cages or in the veterinarian's waiting room.

Then you could put "For further and more detailed information, log on to tortoiseforum.org/general tortoise caresheet", and we could have it as a "sticky" thread listed on the home page. 

That's just my opinion, but I think it's time to have a concrete, available, concise information sheet out there in the commercial world so there will be fewer "Hey-I-just-got-this-tortoise-and-I-think-it's-sick" threads on the forum for everyone to worry over and then helplessly mourn another needless loss.


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## Madkins007 (Jul 9, 2010)

I agree that 5 pages is too long for a handout, although not necessarily as a download or PDF. I have always envisioned this as having three main forms- short handout, medium download, and, in the future, padded with more 'how to' and details (like plans for tortoise tables, etc.)

Anyway, I am looking for people interested in helping edit. Interested?


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