# Swollen eyes & not eating



## Pez75 (Apr 22, 2014)

Help please.. I am a new member to the Forum. I have 2 tortoises and have had them for 10 years. They have always been healthy and I have followed the pet stores advice for years now. The bigger of the two tortoises (Shelby is his name) is having problems with his eyes, they are swollen shut. They will open a little but then go right back to being shut. He will not eat and I am worried. This started on Saturday and has only been a few days but am not sure what to do.

I use walnut shells, and feed them kale and tortoise mix daily. Their water is changed daily with calcium drops added in. They have always hibernated and have been just fine.

Any ideas or anything I am doing wrong as I have always followed what the pet stores have told me so am unsure if I am doing the right things.

View attachment 77289
I believe they are Nevada desert tortoises (I live in Vegas) I can take a pic of him and the tank and upload it...

Please help....

Thank you


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## Laura (Apr 22, 2014)

pet stores are not the best for advice.. :-( what kind of tortoise are they? do they get any outside sunlight? what kind of lights do you use? Vitamin A lack of can cause swollen eyes, so can coil bulbs and dehydration, substrate......


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## ascott (Apr 22, 2014)

The first thing that came to mind is that the tort is having its eyes fried....the lamp seems really close for the high intensity uva/uvb that bulb is designed for.....so, I am just going to ramble off what I see here and so PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE don't think that I am picking on you, because I am not 

Please get rid of that substrate, that is so hazardous and I am surprised that the tort is not impacted.
Please get rid of that water dish, and please stop adding calcium drops to the water--calcium is very bitter so if you adding to the water the tort may not be taking in water as should be because of the taste...also that water dish is originally designed for snakes (that can bend and squirm) not tortoise (torts don't bend and squirm the same as a snake) so it is not a great design for the tort to easily walk in and out of...I would change the dish to a flatter plant saucer.....
Are there two torts in that one enclosure? If yes, wow, I am surprised one has not passed on already--this is a very aggressive, tenacious, territorial species....it is completely not natural for two to be kept in the same space, especially if the space is indoors and not a large space. tortoise do not do well in pairs, not at all---especially this species...you see, torts are not designed/made to desire companionship as some humans do...they will always want the best food, sleeping spot, water hole and anything else that they feel should belong to them...in a pair situation there must be a dominant and a submissive----always. This is the part that creates a problem for one or both...usually one, one will withdraw, will slow to stop eating, will lay about without much activity, will begin to be lethargic more times than not, will eventually become ill, with signs of swollen closed eyes, no desire for food and this slow death usually has been going on for a long period of time before the outward symptoms appear where humans notice "hmmm, something seems off"...

Please separate these two torts if they are indeed in the same space....do you have outdoor yard set up for the torts/


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## mikeh (Apr 22, 2014)

In addition to the above post, below are some more pointers, but the main advice is to do a thorough research on how these animals live, what they eat and what is the ideal indoor environment if they have to be kept indoors temporarily. The set you have is not ideal for the animal to do well in . This animal is clearly suffering. The UVB light looks like Zilla brand, if so get rid of it, it can burn torts eyes. What kind of bulb is inside the dome? Where is your thermometer and humidity monitor? What is the temperatures inside the tank? Without knowing details its hard to tell what's going on. My first two guesses would be UVB light burning the eyes, vitamin A deficiency or both. Can you also clarify, the tortoises hibernated outside but live in the tank inside??? When did the tortoise come out of hibernation? Has it eaten well since then?


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## Pez75 (Apr 22, 2014)

Omg I'm so sick to my stomach. I never meant to harm or put these guys in harms way. I only went off of what the horrible pet store told me too. I have turned off the bulbs and I will go to the store first thing in the am. I have had these two together for 10 years..this is awful!!! Thank you so much for your help. What type of bedding do you suggest? Also what type of food? Heck for this matter what type of tortoise are they? That have been out if hibernation for some time now, since February.


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## Pez75 (Apr 22, 2014)

Also what type of lighting do you suggest?


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## Maggie Cummings (Apr 23, 2014)

Powersun 100 watts...While you are waiting to get a bulb put a regular incandescent bulb in so they can stay warm. I use find grade Orchid bark, some keepers use coir, it comes in compressed bricks you soak in water and it expands. What species of tortoise are they? You can't take care of them properly if you don't know the species. Add other dark leafy greens to their diet. They need more than just kale and pellets.
If they are kept in the house how did they hibernate?


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## Dizisdalife (Apr 23, 2014)

Post some pictures of your tortoises and we will identify them and point you to the correct diet and habitat info.


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## Yvonne G (Apr 23, 2014)

Hi, and welcome to the Forum!

Since you've had the tortoises for 10 years, that means they aren't babies anymore. They need to be outside. Tortoises are wild animals and do much better outside in the real sunshine.


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## bouaboua (Apr 23, 2014)

Please quickly share some picture of your tortoises and enclosure. So we can provide some suggestions. Welcome to the forum. Good to have you here.


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## ascott (Apr 23, 2014)

What happen to the pic/attachement...? last night I was able to see the pic...the pic that was there last night is of a Desert Tort....there is no way that the two should be in that small small enclosure...please separate them straight away...I am confident that there is no good that will come from them being forced to remain in the same space any longer...just because you have forced them to remain for 10 years together does not mean it is fine....


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## Pez75 (Apr 23, 2014)

Thank you all so much for your help. I have separated them at the moment and am looking into building them outdoor living spaces. I have changed out their substrate and purchased new water dishes. The only thing I still need is the lighting. Any suggestions on where to get the lighting. I will never return to a retail pet store again. If you have any suggestions on books or links for ideas on how to create an outdoor environment for them would be so helpful! 

Thank goodness there is this forum like this for these animals. You all are amazing. 

Thanks again


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## taza (Apr 23, 2014)

You.ll find everything you need to know for enclosures here. this forum is a wealth of info.


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## ascott (Apr 23, 2014)

Okay so most items you want to purchase you can do online....and here it comes; you can also go to a pet shop to purchase items straight off of the shelf...you can also go to hardware stores, target, walmart---here is the trick, decide what your goal is--research/or ask around for opinions on what options you are thinking of purchasing and then set out to purchase those things...you see, the moment you become educated and equipped with knowledge you no longer have to be at the mercy of someone who knows nothing....

Now, what type of light are you currently using? Are you able to raise the light so it is not so close to the tort? If yes, then that is an option....and once you get that figured out you can do the same set up for the second enclosure....until you get your outdoor set up together....







These are just some ideas for you.....of course you will see your own space and own lay out and do what works functionally for the torts as well as you...


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## Yvonne G (Apr 24, 2014)

ascott said:


> What happen to the pic/attachement...? last night I was able to see the pic...the pic that was there last night is of a Desert Tort....there is no way that the two should be in that small small enclosure...please separate them straight away...I am confident that there is no good that will come from them being forced to remain in the same space any longer...just because you have forced them to remain for 10 years together does not mean it is fine....



The op had made several duplicate posts and they deleted them. Unfortunately, one of them was the one with the picture. But if you click on the picture link in the first post, you can still see the picture.


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## Pez75 (Apr 26, 2014)

Hi everyone, thank you so much for all of the help. I am getting ready to set up the outdoor enclosure. Ascott, thanks for the pics. What do you think about a child's swimming pool for the enclosure? I have all rock in the backyard, so I need to build something or use something that I can fill with substrate, burrows and hiding spots. This seems like it would be efficient and have seen on the internet, but I wanted to ask you guys first. I live in Vegas and our temps are very high, so I don't need any additional lighting/heating correct? Also what do you think about bringing the tort in at night? I am so worried about something happening to her outside. (I know this is the best for her, just scared). In the indoor enclosure I have switched to coco fur/bark mixture but it seems almost too humid. When I make her outdoor enclosure what do you suggest for the substrate? Her temp inside the tank is 80degrees and the humidity seems almost mid-tropical. I don't think that it should be so humid. What should I add to it to bring it to a more desert humid range? Also do you think it would be ok for me to buy dandelions from Home Depot and plant in the outdoor enclosure? And what about sod? I have been reading like a fool and they say that they need grass, well in Vegas it's very hard to have grass, so can I plant a square of sod in the enclosure? 
Thanks again for all of your help, you guys rock!


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## Yvonne G (Apr 26, 2014)

I don't think a kiddy pool is big enough. You can put together a pretty nice habitat using old lumber or cinder blocks. Put something together near an existing fence in partial sun/shade, add some bermuda sod, but make sure it doesn't have plastic webbing in the roots.


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## Pez75 (Apr 26, 2014)

Ok perfect Yvonne thank you. I am heading to the store soon. What about the dandelions?


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## Yvonne G (Apr 26, 2014)

Dandelions are good, but not exclusively


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## Pez75 (Apr 26, 2014)

Any other suggestions for plants for her to graze on?


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## Yvonne G (Apr 26, 2014)

Bermuda grass
Fresh clover
Clover hay
Rye grass
Rice grass
Mallow
Sowthistle

*Dead Plants*
Don't be an overly fastidious groundskeeper. Tortoises enjoy munching on dried brown leaves and stalks as much as they do the fresh plant. Top off your edible greens and ornamentals and drop them in the tortoise pen; depending on their mood, the tortoises will eat them fresh or ignore them until they are nice and brittle.

Leafy GreensThese should make up no more than half (and ideally much less) of your tortoise forage:
Cabbage**
Chard**
Collards
Dandelion greens and flowers
Endive
Grape leaves
Kale**
Mustard greens
Parsley*
Spinach*
Turnip greens
Watercress
*
* These are high in calcium oxalates that may bind calcium causing metabolic bone disease, and may cause visceral gout (mineralization/crystallization of the soft tissues and internal organs). Feed sparingly. ** These are high in goitrogens, which impair thyroid function when fed in excess. Feed sparingly.

feed sparingly if at all:*
Iceberg lettuce
Boston lettuce
Romaine lettuce
Red- and Green-leaf lettuce
*
Cactus:
Opuntia cactus pads and flowers (high in water content)





Acorn squash
Bell Peppers, red and green
Broccoli**
Butternut squash
Carrots
Green beans
Lentils
Peas
Potatoes (cooked, plain)
Pumpkin and other winter squash
Rice (cooked, plain)
Snow peas
Sweet potatoes
Turnip

**These are high in goitrogens, which impair thyroid function when fed in excess. Feed sparingly.



Feed sparingly as these are low in nutrition
Corn
Cucumbers
Radishes
Sprouts (alfalfa, bean, and grain)
Zucchini



Occasional foods
Apples (no seeds)
Apricots (no pits)
Avocados (no pits or leaves)
Bananas
Berries
Cantaloupe (with scrubbed rind)
Figs
Grapes
Mangos (no pit)
Oranges (not for hatchlings)
Papayas (ripe, no seeds)
Peaches (no pit)
Pears (no seeds)
Plums
Tomatoes (not for hatchlings)

*


*Ficus benjamina (note: the milky sap may be irritating to skin, eyes and gastrointestinal tract).
Geraniums
Hibiscus flower and leaves
Nasturtium flowers and leaves
Pansies
Petunias
Pothos
Rose petals and leaves
Snail vine (Vigna caracalla)
Violets


Sunlight...
Sunlight is critical for proper growth. The UVA promotes normal behavior and appetite; the UVB is necessary to enable the animal to synthesize vitamin D3, a substance crucial to calcium metabolization. Be sure, however, to provide some shade. Being too hot is just as dangerous as being too cold. If regular direct sunlight cannot be provided for them, you must use UVB-producing lights daily.


...and WaterAlways have fresh water available for drinking. A large shallow bowl is best, one they can access but not accidentally tip into and possibly drown. Leopards, radiated and all hatchlings are at risk for drowning or suffocating if they tip over onto their backs and are unable to right themselves.*


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## Pez75 (Apr 27, 2014)

Wow, Yvonne this is so helpful!! Thank you! I will send pics when I am done with the enclosure.


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## ascott (Apr 27, 2014)

You said in the beginning that you have two tortoise in your care? What are you doing to set them each up outdoors?


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## Pez75 (Apr 27, 2014)

Unfortunately my other tort passed away.  The vet said that it looked like a really bad upper respiratory infection. We are monitoring my other tort and she seems to be doing fine.


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