# Woolsey fire victim, need help tortoise woke up from hibernation



## cbs (Dec 14, 2018)

Hello we evacuated from our home during the Woolsey fire, the fire destroyed our home but luckily I got our tortoise out before the fire to the house. That was on November 9 our tortoise was asleep from Thursday, November 8 until that Sunday right after the fire. She woke up walked a little bit, pooped a little bit and then she has been sleeping in her enclosure inside a cool place since then. My concern is the house we are staying in has air purifiers: big noisy, room rumbling boxes. I think they disturbed her hibernation because when I peaked in to check on her she had moved to the other side of the enclosure. Last night I put a few lettuce leaves in the enclosure, this afternoon they look like they’ve been trampled and nibbled on a bit but she’s back in the same spot. My question is #1 do you tortoises wake up in the middle of hibernation and can they go back into hibernation? #2 if that is not possible how do I care for a tortoise that we have traditionally put outside during the day but now the land is scorched and toxic? And how many hours would she be awake during the day during winter cold times? Our temperatures range from the 50s to the 70s. Should I be putting her in a little warm bath water?


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## LaLaP (Dec 14, 2018)

I'm so sorry that you've lost your home and so much more I'm sure. My heart goes out to you and your family. I can't even imagine... and dealing with the disruption of your tortoises hibernation on top of it all! 
Unfortunately I don't have any experience with hibernation and I'm sure one of our forum experts will come along soon to help. 
I wish all the best for you all in this tough time.


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## cbs (Dec 14, 2018)

LaLaP said:


> I'm so sorry that you've lost your home and so much more I'm sure. My heart goes out to you and your family. I can't even imagine... and dealing with the disruption of your tortoises hibernation on top of it all!
> Unfortunately I don't have any experience with hibernation and I'm sure one of our forum experts will come along soon to help.
> I wish all the best for you all in this tough time.


Thank you. Yes, it has been pretty tough, especially for my 12 year old. But I’m thankful we are all alive and well.


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## LaLaP (Dec 14, 2018)

I'm trying to find some info for you and I found this old post that may be helpful...

https://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/please-help-hibernation-going-wrong.162401/


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## KarenSoCal (Dec 15, 2018)

First, is your tortoise a desert tortoise? It's good for us to know the species to be the best help.

Do not feed the tort anything at all! If she has food in her gut, you will be forced to keep her awake for the rest of the winter, probably not something you want to deal with in addition to your current situation. You can offer water in a dish for drinking. If you want to try to get her back to sleep, I would not soak her because the water will tend to warm her, which is not what you are wanting to do.

Where was she when you got her during/after the fire? In a burrow? In a box in a shed or cool room?

Where did she spend previous winters?

I'm thinking that if it is cold enough, she could be put in a small dog crate with lots of dirt/orchid bark/coir to dig down into and she may just go back to sleep. They do move around a bit during brumation, but it doesn't mean they want to wake fully. Getting the temp cold enough and steady is the difficulty. Desert torts should be 45-50 degF day and night. Do you have a place that is that temp? If not, you could use a refrigerator. I use a 4.5 cu ft for my 9 in, 4.75 lb DT. If yours is bigger, you would need a larger fridge. Mine will need a bigger one next year. Depending on how long you will be in your temporary house, this may work best. It could be easily moved from one house to another without disturbing the occupant.

Any more suggestions depend on what species tort, how she spent previous winters, and your current temps, day and night.

Fill us in on that, and we can move on with more specific ideas.

I'm so sorry about your home! Depending on your needs, maybe some forum members in your area could loan, or sell you, some equipment.


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## cbs (Dec 15, 2018)

She is a California desert tortoise, 3 years old. Our typical routine was take her out in the morning to her yard, bring her into the house and her tub in the evening. The day of the fire she didn’t wake up, so we evacuated her with us, with her still asleep in her tub. She didn’t wake up for 3 days. I’ve put a few lettuce leaves in her tub, since I noticed she moved. Now I’m really worried.


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## KarenSoCal (Dec 15, 2018)

I think she is trying to hibernate, which is what DT's do in the wild.

If you think she ate lettuce, I'm not sure what to advise you to do. How big is her tub? Could we have some pictures? 

I'm going to call in some more experienced members who can help you, especially since it sounds like you lost most of your belongings in the fire. I'm not sure if you should keep her up or let her sleep. In the meantime, take the lettuce out...nothing to eat.

@orv @Tom @Yvonne G


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## cbs (Dec 15, 2018)

We have her in a closet of the house we are sharing with friends. She has a towel covering tub, it has “Critters crumble all natural coconut” about 2” deep and a carved out wood “cave” type thing. Yes, we lost everything in the fire, thankfully we all got out ok. I’ve taken out all the food, my husband doesn’t think she ate any of it.


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## KarenSoCal (Dec 16, 2018)

@Yvonne G
@Tom
@orv
Can you offer help here? I'm not sure what to do.


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## LaLaP (Dec 16, 2018)

I keep checking back on this thread hoping someone has some answers for you and your tortoise. I'm worried for your sweet tort. I agree with @KarenSoCal that a refrigerator might be a good option but from what I've read they need to stop eating about 2 weeks before going into that deep sleep or the food in their gut will rot and cause damage. I assume she was eating right up until the fire, right? Here's what I'm wondering and maybe someone will chime in...

Could you wake your tort with warm soaks and keep soaking her everyday for a week or so until all the food/poop is out of her system and then refrigerate her? I don't know the answer to this. 

Another alternative which I think is a safer bet is to get her a big plastic tub and a heat lamp (just a regular incandescent flood bulb) and wake her up, warm her up and feed her. She may not have long term ideal conditions (due to small space and lack of uv, humidity, etc) but neither does your family and all the families and pets effected by the fires and yet you will all recover and survive. 

Here's an idea to save you from getting the tub... is it possible to put down cardboard or wood or many towels/ blankets to make a pallet off of the cold floor inside the closet? The whole floor of the closet could be her domain and hang the flood light from the rod. If you went to a hardware store and got the light and a temperature gun (about $12) you could make her a temporary home in the closet. Just make sure you insulate her from the cold floor. Then keep the basking area at 95-100 degrees using the temp gun to adjust height of lamp to get proper temp. 

Does any of this help? I hope...


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## KarenSoCal (Dec 16, 2018)

LaLaP said:


> I keep checking back on this thread hoping someone has some answers for you and your tortoise. I'm worried for your sweet tort. I agree with @KarenSoCal that a refrigerator might be a good option but from what I've read they need to stop eating about 2 weeks before going into that deep sleep or the food in their gut will rot and cause damage. I assume she was eating right up until the fire, right? Here's what I'm wondering and maybe someone will chime in...
> 
> Could you wake your tort with warm soaks and keep soaking her everyday for a week or so until all the food/poop is out of her system and then refrigerate her? I don't know the answer to this.
> 
> ...


Thank you @LaLaP
I don't know why no one is responding to my tags...would you try?


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## LaLaP (Dec 16, 2018)

Yes of course! 

@Yvonne G @orv @Tom 

Can anyone help?


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## cbs (Dec 16, 2018)

We are only temporarily living here, but if you think I should set up the closet, for a little while, I can give it a try... I should also point out that we adopted her this past summer. The previous owners moved out of State, but did say she hibernates typically November to March. I’m thinking the tub might be good, in case we have to relocate. Are you suggesting those summer “pool” plastic tubs for little kids?


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## LaLaP (Dec 16, 2018)

cbs said:


> We are only temporarily living here, but if you think I should set up the closet, for a little while, I can give it a try... I should also point out that we adopted her this past summer. The previous owners moved out of State, but did say she hibernates typically November to March. I’m thinking the tub might be good, in case we have to relocate. Are you suggesting those summer “pool” plastic tubs for little kids?


p
A kiddie pool would work or a huge plastic tote. I've read that there are xmas tree totes to store artificial trees in that are good and they'd be available this time of year.


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## wellington (Dec 16, 2018)

I don't own a DT nor do I hibernate. My suggestion is info I have gathered from the forum and what I would do in your place. Usually we do not suggest hibernating a tortoise that you have not had for a year in order for you to observe and get too know it to be sure it's healthy enough to survive a hibernation. 
With your situation and that she has already been hibernating or trying, I would try to keep her that way as long as you know she stopped eating at least two weeks before going into her sleep. If she hibernates with food in her gut she must not be hibernated, she will get very sick and die. 
If you are confident she hasn't eaten then try to get her temps much more steady for hibernation and place her in a quiet dark cool/cold place. I would use about 6 inches at least of mulch/coir over her. 
Keep us updated and good luck.
So very sorry for your devistating loss, but glad no lives lost.


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## LaLaP (Dec 16, 2018)

wellington said:


> I don't own a DT nor do I hibernate. My suggestion is info I have gathered from the forum and what I would do in your place. Usually we do not suggest hibernating a tortoise that you have not had for a year in order for you to observe and get too know it to be sure it's healthy enough to survive a hibernation.
> With your situation and that she has already been hibernating or trying, I would try to keep her that way as long as you know she stopped eating at least two weeks before going into her sleep. If she hibernates with food in her gut she must not be hibernated, she will get very sick and die.
> If you are confident she hasn't eaten then try to get her temps much more steady for hibernation and place her in a quiet dark cool/cold place. I would use about 6 inches at least of mulch/coir over her.
> Keep us updated and good luck.
> So very sorry for your devistating loss, but glad no lives lost.


And what do you think if she did eat right up until falling asleep?


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## KarenSoCal (Dec 16, 2018)

LaLaP said:


> And what do you think if she did eat right up until falling asleep?


What approach to use is completely dependent on when she last ate.

If she stopped eating before the fire, she can be hibernated, which requires cold (45-50) , steady temps.

If she has eaten in the last 2 weeks, she needs to be kept awake. This is against her natural instincts, and will require bright lights and heat 14 hrs a day.

As I see it, unless you believe she ate lettuce, hibernation would be easiest for you to do. 

I would put her back in the cool place she was in when you first posted. Actually you want the coldest place you have that the temp fluctuates the least, that she will be safe from mice.

I put a thick layer of newspaper in the bottom of a plastic bin. Then the tortoise goes in, then lightly stuff above the tort with lots of strips of newspaper. Then put a piece of cardboard with a weight on it to keep the tort in the box. This way, you can check on her, and easily see if she has pooped or peed.

Maybe tomorrow we will get more responses from members who keep DT's and hibernate them. 

If we lived closer I would hibernate her for you, and return her in the spring when you are more settled. 

Hang in there...it will all work out eventually.


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## wellington (Dec 17, 2018)

LaLaP said:


> And what do you think if she did eat right up until falling asleep?


Then she needs to be kept awake. I believe I mentioned hibernation with food in their gut is deadly.


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## KarenSoCal (Dec 18, 2018)

@cbs
Any update?


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## ascott (Dec 19, 2018)

cbs said:


> Hello we evacuated from our home during the Woolsey fire, the fire destroyed our home but luckily I got our tortoise out before the fire to the house. That was on November 9 our tortoise was asleep from Thursday, November 8 until that Sunday right after the fire. She woke up walked a little bit, pooped a little bit and then she has been sleeping in her enclosure inside a cool place since then. My concern is the house we are staying in has air purifiers: big noisy, room rumbling boxes. I think they disturbed her hibernation because when I peaked in to check on her she had moved to the other side of the enclosure. Last night I put a few lettuce leaves in the enclosure, this afternoon they look like they’ve been trampled and nibbled on a bit but she’s back in the same spot. My question is #1 do you tortoises wake up in the middle of hibernation and can they go back into hibernation? #2 if that is not possible how do I care for a tortoise that we have traditionally put outside during the day but now the land is scorched and toxic? And how many hours would she be awake during the day during winter cold times? Our temperatures range from the 50s to the 70s. Should I be putting her in a little warm bath water?



Hi....so I went through the posts here and just wanna know?

Where is the tort now?

What enclosure / set up is the tort in now?


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## cbs (Dec 25, 2018)

We’ve put her bin in a closet, that doesn’t get used. Still have it covered with a towel. There is no heat in the house, the closet is in the center of the house so it’s pretty stable in temperature.


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## KarenSoCal (Dec 25, 2018)

cbs said:


> We’ve put her bin in a closet, that doesn’t get used. Still have it covered with a towel. There is no heat in the house, the closet is in the center of the house so it’s pretty stable in temperature.


Is she hibernating? Or awake daily, walking, and being fed?


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## cbs (Dec 26, 2018)

I believe she is hibernating, although I notice she is not always in the same spot of her tub. (Would this be brumation?) Every time I look in on her she is huddled in.... we are not feeding her.


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## KarenSoCal (Dec 26, 2018)

cbs said:


> I believe she is hibernating, although I notice she is not always in the same spot of her tub. (Would this be brumation?) Every time I look in on her she is huddled in.... we are not feeding her.


The closet she's in is probably not as cool as 50 deg. She's brumating, but with the warmer temp she is using more of her body resources. I think dehydration is more of a threat than starvation. I would put a small pan of water in with her so she can drink if she wants. Sink it into the substrate so there's no chance of it overturning. Just something small, and keep a little water in it. Continue with not feeding anything.

Moving around in her bin is normal. Chug is at 45 deg and he still changes position occasionally.

@Yvonne G
@ascott
@wellington
@LaLaP

Do you agree with what I've suggested? Any other thoughts in this unusual, emergency situation?


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## LaLaP (Dec 26, 2018)

I really wish I knew more about this but I don't. Water seems like a very good idea and couldn't hurt. 
Could you weigh her and keep weighing her every so often to make sure she isn't losing a lot of weight? 
That's all I've got :/
My fingers are crossed for you guys!


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## cbs (Dec 27, 2018)

Can we move her? Wouldn’t that disturb her hibernation?


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## LaLaP (Dec 27, 2018)

Hmm. I'm not sure. I just know that when they are in a deeper hibernation people will often weigh them periodically and it doesn't disturb them at all. I guess this situation is different though. I wish I knew.


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## KarenSoCal (Dec 27, 2018)

cbs said:


> Can we move her? Wouldn’t that disturb her hibernation?


She moves around some on her own, so it shouldn't. Have her scale nearby and ready, and be quick. I think it's a good idea.


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## ascott (Dec 29, 2018)

cbs said:


> I believe she is hibernating, although I notice she is not always in the same spot of her tub. (Would this be brumation?) Every time I look in on her she is huddled in.... we are not feeding her.



Hi. So if the tortoise has eaten a bit then you will want to wake the tort up and set it up in a enclosure that is designed to keep a tort warm and awake....I am only suggesting this because you have a tortoise that is still young...if this was an adult full size tortoise I would say leave it be...but because you have a small/young tortoise (3 years) and still a manageable size in an indoor set up... I would certainly wake the tort and do so over a weeks period...slowly each day warm the tort and then ultimately offer a space that the tort can move from cool to warm to hot basking spot....I would also soak the tort daily in slightly warm water (tepid)...and continue to offer a few options to move from dry cold to warm to hot basking spot....I would then monitor even the most subtle activity...those will give you the hints as to what you should do next....may we see a pic of the tortoise...body and especially the face and eye areas....?


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## ascott (Jan 5, 2019)

cbs said:


> Can we move her? Wouldn’t that disturb her hibernation?


CDT do not hibernate....they brumate...which is different. Hibernation is a true type of sleep where there is not much movement....brumation is different in that they are more like at rest than a true sleep.... Brumating tortoise will crawl to water if they sense rain...they will come out into the warmth from time to time when there is a hot spell vs a hibernating animal (lets say like a bear, who will sleep through a variety of temps and show no interest in coming out in the warmth),.....you say that the tort is not in the same position ...this is a prime example of brumation vs hibernation...again, you are dealing with a young tortoise who does not have years of body weight in store..this is why I suggested to slowly bring the tort out of a shorter brumation period.....and set up in an awake situation....I again stand by my suggestion for waking the tort on a gradual basis and strive to warm up and get awake...


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## cbs (Jun 14, 2019)

I wanted to thank everyone for all your help. She woke up early May, and has been exploring her new yard. Eating more weeds then she used to, before we could only get her to eat collard greens and zucchini. Now she seems to prefer dandelion flowers and other weeds. We bought a wadding pool as someone suggested and bring her in at night. Again, thank you. We hope to be able to rebuild once the state is done with debris removal.


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## LaLaP (Jun 15, 2019)

cbs said:


> I wanted to thank everyone for all your help. She woke up early May, and has been exploring her new yard. Eating more weeds then she used to, before we could only get her to eat collard greens and zucchini. Now she seems to prefer dandelion flowers and other weeds. We bought a wadding pool as someone suggested and bring her in at night. Again, thank you. We hope to be able to rebuild once the state is done with debris removal.


So glad to hear this! People and tortoises are such resilient creatures. Sounds like you all are recovering well.


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## KarenSoCal (Jun 15, 2019)

cbs said:


> I wanted to thank everyone for all your help. She woke up early May, and has been exploring her new yard. Eating more weeds then she used to, before we could only get her to eat collard greens and zucchini. Now she seems to prefer dandelion flowers and other weeds. We bought a wadding pool as someone suggested and bring her in at night. Again, thank you. We hope to be able to rebuild once the state is done with debris removal.


Oh my! Thank you so very much for the update! I've wondered what had happened.

It's great that she's wanting weeds. Now would be a good time to slowly introduce other good foods, like grape leaves, hibiscus leaves and flowers, mulberry leaves. Of course that's if you have access to these. Take a walk around the area you're in. You never know what you might find!

And you'll know what to plant when you rebuild! 

I'm so happy that she, and your family, are doing well. Please come back with new updates, or just to chat. [emoji2]


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