# Please help..new tortoise owner and my tortoise has worms



## Kelly.324 (Dec 13, 2018)

Hi, I’m pretty new to the forum and posted in the introduction section about this issue and was hoping some people might be able to give me some advice; i re-homed a 3 and a half year old horse field called Sebastian.
I took him to the vets for a check up just after I got him and they said he had a very high level of pin worms. They gave him a worming treatment which is for 8 weeks and he’s only have way through his treatment. 

I’ve been cleaning his table each day and changing food and water and spot cleaning as often as possible each day.

Is there anything else I can do to help clear up the worms? Any food that is particularly good for him? Temperatures I should be keeping him at? 
Anything else I can do to really to help get him healthy? 

Thank you [emoji4]


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## Cowboy_Ken (Dec 13, 2018)

Kelly.324 said:


> Anything else I can do to really to help get him healthy?
> 
> Thank you [emoji4]


All those questions and ones y’all haven’t come up with yet can be answered in the sticky posts at the beginning of the russian tortoise section.


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## Ben02 (Dec 13, 2018)

Ive had no experience with parasites but just keep him warm and hydrated, give him baths more often


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## Kelly.324 (Dec 13, 2018)

Cowboy_Ken said:


> All those questions and ones y’all haven’t come up with yet can be answered in the sticky posts at the beginning of the russian tortoise section.



Thanks, I’ve read the sticky posts and care sheets in that section but couldn’t find anything specific for if they’ve got worms, sorry I’ve missed it, I’ll have another read


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## Kelly.324 (Dec 13, 2018)

Ben02 said:


> Ive had no experience with parasites but just keep him warm and hydrated, give him baths more often



Thank you, should i keep him warmer than usual? I’ve been bathing him everyday and hoping that helps somewhat but I’m not sure if it’s making a difference.


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## JoesMum (Dec 13, 2018)

@Yvonne G is it best to keep them on newspaper during worming?


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## Kelly.324 (Dec 13, 2018)

JoesMum said:


> @Yvonne G is it best to keep them on newspaper during worming?



That’s what I was told by the vet but I think it’s just because it’s easier to clean, he seems miserable with it though and tried to dig all the time.


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## JoesMum (Dec 13, 2018)

I had to keep Joe on newspaper when he was under treatment (not for worms). He wasn't fond of it, but I can understand it from the hygiene point of view. With worms, I think it is pretty much essential as you can change it daily. With normal substrate you risk reinfection


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## Markw84 (Dec 13, 2018)

PInworms are a direct cycle parasite. In minimal "normal" loads they are often considered normal gut flora. If the load get high, as it appears your tortoise has, then worming is a good choice. Because it is direct cycle, it can re-infect itself by eating contaminated water or substrate. The treatment should be a dose now, and then another dose in a few weeks. The dose now should kill any live worms in the tortoise now. The follow up dose is to kill any new worms that have hatched out from eggs that may be in the system now.

I would clean the enclosure and change the substrate a few days after the first dose. By bathing the tortoise daily during the treatment phase, you should dramatically reduce the amount of poop the tortoise does in the enclosure and make it much easier to stay on top of reinfection. Otherwise, ensure good feeding and hydration and treat the tortoise normally.

The normal treatment for pinworms is Panacur. - "Fenbenzadole." It actually is quite safe and has an extremely large margin of safety. Your tortoise should do just fine with this treatment.


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## crimson_lotus (Dec 13, 2018)

Just like Markw84 mentioned, my turtle had two doses - initial one plus another 2 weeks later. Is the de-worming medicine you have more frequent?


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## Kelly.324 (Dec 13, 2018)

The vet prescribed profender- one dose(which was 2 weeks ago now) and then another 4 weeks after the first dose and then after another 4 weeks the vet wants a poo sample. 

I’ve been cleaning the enclosure daily and giving daily soaks as well as lots of food. I’ve heard carrot is meant to be good worming but he’s not interested in it. 

Otherwise he seems to be eating fine and only appeared to be lethargic in the last couple of days, I’m not sure if this is a side effect of the treatment or if he’s just had a lazy couple of days. 

Thanks


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## Ben02 (Dec 13, 2018)

Bathing won't help the parasite issue but it will prevent any more problems such as dehydration which is common with torts that have parasites. Increasing temps will just help your tort get through this in general


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## Kelly.324 (Dec 14, 2018)

Thanks everyone, I think I’m just a worrier, plus he’s my first tortoise and everyone says it’s so hard to tell if they’re ill and I’m worried I’m missing something.


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## Yvonne G (Dec 14, 2018)

Kelly.324 said:


> The vet prescribed profender- one dose(which was 2 weeks ago now) and then another 4 weeks after the first dose and then after another 4 weeks the vet wants a poo sample.
> 
> I’ve been cleaning the enclosure daily and giving daily soaks as well as lots of food. I’ve heard carrot is meant to be good worming but he’s not interested in it.
> 
> ...


Carrot has no de-worming properties.


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## drew54 (Dec 14, 2018)

I think pumpkin is a natural dewormer, but I could be wrong.


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## Yvonne G (Dec 14, 2018)

drew54 said:


> I think pumpkin is a natural dewormer, but I could be wrong.


It's actually the pumpkin seeds, ground up.

From my friend, Google:

In recent times, herbalists have discovered that the *seeds* of the *pumpkin* also work as an effective *deworming* agent against tapeworms and other intestinal parasites in dogs and humans. *Pumpkin seeds* contain the amino acid called cucurbitin, which paralyzes and eliminates the worms from the digestive tract.


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## jsheffield (Dec 14, 2018)

Same with papaya seeds ....

J


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## Yvonne G (Dec 14, 2018)

jsheffield said:


> Same with papaya seeds ....
> 
> J


My friend, Google has this to say about papaya seeds:

Improper use of commercial medicines has lead to parasites resistant to many deworming drugs for goats and other livestock. In a Florida study, 10 grams of ground papaya seed added to a base diet of bahiagrass removed 78 percent of adult parasites and 72 percent of their eggs.


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## Yvonne G (Dec 14, 2018)

Good to know, thank you.


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## jsheffield (Dec 14, 2018)

I used it on myself while livong in Ecuador and populated by all manner of intestinal bugs ... it worked for me.

Jamie


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## Markw84 (Dec 14, 2018)

Kelly.324 said:


> The vet prescribed profender- one dose(which was 2 weeks ago now) and then another 4 weeks after the first dose and then after another 4 weeks the vet wants a poo sample.
> 
> I’ve been cleaning the enclosure daily and giving daily soaks as well as lots of food. I’ve heard carrot is meant to be good worming but he’s not interested in it.
> 
> ...


IS this a reptile vet? I have never heard of anyone prescribing emodepside/ praziquantel for pinworms and using for reptiles. With Panacur, (or a mebendazole or albendazole) so effective and with such a high margin of safety, could you ask why your vet chose profender? Perhaps we can learn something.



Ben02 said:


> Bathing won't help the parasite issue but it will prevent any more problems such as dehydration which is common with torts that have parasites. Increasing temps will just help your tort get through this in general



Bathing is a very effective first line of defense controlling a pinworm type infestation. Cleanliness is paramount. The problem is reinfecting itself and building loads. Keeping an enclosure clean, and picking up feces is most important. With bathing - most of the feces ends up in the bath water and not in the enclosure. The best way to ensure a direct cycle parasite load does not build up.


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## Ben02 (Dec 14, 2018)

I've learnt something today thank you mark


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## Kelly.324 (Dec 19, 2018)

Markw84 said:


> IS this a reptile vet? I have never heard of anyone prescribing emodepside/ praziquantel for pinworms and using for reptiles. With Panacur, (or a mebendazole or albendazole) so effective and with such a high margin of safety, could you ask why your vet chose profender? Perhaps we can learn something.
> 
> 
> 
> Bathing is a very effective first line of defense controlling a pinworm type infestation. Cleanliness is paramount. The problem is reinfecting itself and building loads. Keeping an enclosure clean, and picking up feces is most important. With bathing - most of the feces ends up in the bath water and not in the enclosure. The best way to ensure a direct cycle parasite load does not build up.



Hi she is and she keeps tortoises herself. However some of her recommendations aren’t recommended on this forum so I’ve had some contradictory advice and not sure what to follow, eg she recommended sand and hay for substrate and bedding as well as other stuff but both those things are not recommended on here. 
She recommended the profender because she said she’s found it to be more effective on her own tortoise when she took it in. 
Should I stop using it and ask the vet to switch to Panacur? He’s half way through his treatment and seems fine, still eating, active etc and the worms in his poo seem to have gone, although I know they’ll reappear as they’re cyclical.

I’m bathing him each day but he doesn’t go to the toilet when having a bath that much, seems to do it right after I’ve cleaned the table haha!. I’ve covered the table in newspaper which is changed each day, usually more than once and is always changed straight after he poos/wees. 

I’m feeding him basically as much as he wants to eat and haven’t controlled portions or anything, is this ok? I figured since the worms might make him feel hungry the more he eats the better? 

Thanks


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## Ben02 (Dec 20, 2018)

That's good he's eating, torts can go a long time without food.


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## Kelly.324 (Dec 20, 2018)

Ben02 said:


> That's good he's eating, torts can go a long time without food.



I think he’d eat constantly if I let him, he always seems hungry. The only things he won’t eat are the expensive dried weeds and wildflowers I bought to get through winter, typical haha!


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## Kelly.324 (Dec 20, 2018)

Kelly.324 said:


> Hi she is and she keeps tortoises herself. However some of her recommendations aren’t recommended on this forum so I’ve had some contradictory advice and not sure what to follow, eg she recommended sand and hay for substrate and bedding as well as other stuff but both those things are not recommended on here.
> She recommended the profender because she said she’s found it to be more effective on her own tortoise when she took it in.
> Should I stop using it and ask the vet to switch to Panacur? He’s half way through his treatment and seems fine, still eating, active etc and the worms in his poo seem to have gone, although I know they’ll reappear as they’re cyclical.
> 
> ...



I forgot to say, I’m also using a reptile safe cleaning spray and reptile safe anti bag wipes, wiping it all down with water and drying it every other day whilst Sebastian has a soak. 
So I think I’m doing it right, I just want to make sure I’m doing all I can to get him better.


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## TammyJ (Dec 20, 2018)

Kelly.324 said:


> Hi she is and she keeps tortoises herself. However some of her recommendations aren’t recommended on this forum so I’ve had some contradictory advice and not sure what to follow, eg she recommended sand and hay for substrate and bedding as well as other stuff but both those things are not recommended on here.
> She recommended the profender because she said she’s found it to be more effective on her own tortoise when she took it in.
> Should I stop using it and ask the vet to switch to Panacur? He’s half way through his treatment and seems fine, still eating, active etc and the worms in his poo seem to have gone, although I know they’ll reappear as they’re cyclical.
> 
> ...


I would not ask the vet to switch to anything else half way through the treatment at all, if the tortoise seems to be improving and getting over the problem OK. It is important to complete a course of medicine and not stop half way, if it is doing its job, for a number of reasons. After the treatment is finished with the present medication, maybe we can move on to using a more highly recommended medicine (like Panacur?) next time and for the future. Just watch the progress and ensure that all is going well and the tortoise is tolerating and benefiting from the present treatment.


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## Kelly.324 (Dec 20, 2018)

TammyJ said:


> I would not ask the vet to switch to anything else half way through the treatment at all, if the tortoise seems to be improving and getting over the problem OK. It is important to complete a course of medicine and not stop half way, if it is doing its job, for a number of reasons. After the treatment is finished with the present medication, maybe we can move on to using a more highly recommended medicine (like Panacur?) next time and for the future. Just watch the progress and ensure that all is going well and the tortoise is tolerating and benefiting from the present treatment.



Thank you, I’m hoping once they’ve gone he’ll just need to stick to a once a year worming treatment (which I’ve read is recommended for tortoises?) and I’ll ask the vet to stick with panacur then.

He does seem to be on the mend, as I’ve said he’s eating loads and is quite active and is hydrated now. 

I had read that panacur was recommended for tortoises before taking him to the vet but I just thought, her being a vet, that I should take her advice, I’ll definitely ask more questions in future.

Thanks


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## Kelly.324 (Jan 4, 2019)

Hi again, 

Thanks you all so much for your replies 

My tortoise has now has his second (and final) dose of treatment, 4 days ago, but he hasn’t pooed now for 3 days. I’ve given him twice daily baths and 95-100 F. He seems to be eating normally but is a little lethargic. 
Should I take him back to the vet or is this to be expected when he’s been wormed? 

Thank you


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## Kelly.324 (Jan 10, 2019)

Hi again, 

He has started pooing normally again now thank goodness, but I am still noticing some worms in his poo, is this normal? 

Thanks


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## TardisMyTortoise (Jan 10, 2019)

I am also new to tortoise keeping- is it standard practice to need to deworm a tort? I have horses so we have the vet check for internal parasites every 4-8 weeks ... is this something I will need to also do as my hatchling gets older?


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## Ben02 (Jan 10, 2019)

Are the worms alive in the poo??


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## Kelly.324 (Jan 11, 2019)

Ben02 said:


> Are the worms alive in the poo??



It’s a bit difficult to tell but I don’t think, I’ve not seen them move.


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## Yvonne G (Jan 11, 2019)

I've always used Panacur for the parasites you can see and Flagyl for the microscopic parasites. The usual treatment is now, then again in 10 days.


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## TriciaStringer (Jan 11, 2019)

Kelly.324 said:


> Thank you, I’m hoping once they’ve gone he’ll just need to stick to a once a year worming treatment (which I’ve read is recommended for tortoises?) and I’ll ask the vet to stick with panacur then.
> 
> He does seem to be on the mend, as I’ve said he’s eating loads and is quite active and is hydrated now.
> 
> ...


A once a year worming is usually not necessary. Many vets will allow you to bring in a poop sample once a year for them to check. I’ve had my tortoise for nine years and he’s never been wormed (with me). All his samples have come up negative for parasites. I don’t get them tested every year but some people do.


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## Markw84 (Jan 11, 2019)

TriciaStringer said:


> A once a year worming is usually not necessary. Many vets will allow you to bring in a poop sample once a year for them to check. I’ve had my tortoise for nine years and he’s never been wormed (with me). All his samples have come up negative for parasites. I don’t get them tested every year but some people do.


As I mentioned earlier in this thread, Panacur is used almost universally for most Nematodes - worms. Very effective and very wide safety margin - I think of great value. Flagyl is fairly universal as the drug of choice for some the more commonly seen protozoans like flagellates. Not sure, as mentioned before, why your (@Kelly.324 ) vet did not go with Panacur. You should not still see worms after 4 weeks if the treatment was effective. Any left over eggs in the system should have hatched within 2 weeks and died with 2nd course. If you still see more worms, I would think a fecal exam would be in order.

I do regular fecal exams of my tortoises, but have the equipment to do that. I also take fecal samples in to my vet about once a year. She charges $35 for a fecal as she's already seen a representative sample of my "herd" to develop a relationship. So a nice double check on my findings. I don't prophylactically treat. Some with large collections where many tortoise live in higher concentration do. I only treat if fecal exam shows abnormally high loads as some of the common (pinworm and flagellates) types are considered by many as normal gut flora. Seeing worms in the feces is an indication of higher load. Persistent diarrhea can also be a sign worth checking.


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