# I think my tort is sick



## karleyreed (Jan 9, 2013)

For the past 2 days all my tort has done is sleep. He has had a few nibbles of some food and that's all. Any suggestions as to what may be wrong?


----------



## Laura (Jan 9, 2013)

too dark or too cold?


----------



## qixer01 (Jan 9, 2013)

check your temps.


----------



## karleyreed (Jan 9, 2013)

His temps haven't changed from usual, nor has his lighting :/


----------



## mainey34 (Jan 9, 2013)

Nothing at all has changed?


----------



## karleyreed (Jan 9, 2013)

Nope. Absaloutley nothing.


----------



## cemmons12 (Jan 9, 2013)

What r the cool side/ warm side/ basking temps? R u soaking? If all else fails a vet visit to an exotic/reptile vet may be of use. I'm a big *** worry'r so I take NO chances with my Cooper.


----------



## CtTortoiseMom (Jan 9, 2013)

Have you soaked your tort to see if it becomes more active after a nice warm soak? 
Is he/she having normal bowl movements?


----------



## karleyreed (Jan 10, 2013)

Bowel movement are normal. Just smaller as he's not really ate. Nothing changed after a soak. Should I try a baby food soak?


----------



## JoesMum (Jan 10, 2013)

You are only talking two days, this isn't drastic.

Please can you measure accurately the temperature under your basking lamp and in the cool end and tell us what it is.

Temperatures indoors can vary simply due to changes in the weather outside, so you cannot rely on previous checks.


----------



## arotester (Jan 10, 2013)

if your routine is the same and temp humidity are same then it might be the outside (i mean room) temp and humidity might have changed ,if not then something is missing .


----------



## ascott (Jan 10, 2013)

> Please can you measure accurately the temperature under your basking lamp and in the cool end and tell us what it is.
> 
> Temperatures indoors can vary simply due to changes in the weather outside, so you cannot rely on previous checks.



Yeah, what she said


----------



## karleyreed (Jan 12, 2013)

He seems to be picking up, eating a lot more now, still always sleeping though when he's finished eating :/


----------



## karleyreed (Jan 13, 2013)

Urgent help needed!!! Mike is deteriorating again. He's not drinking when I soak him or put him in his water Dish. He won't walk, does a few steps then just stops and goes to sleep. Not eatin again, I don't know what else to do? There are no reptile vets in my area, will a normal vet be able to treat him??


----------



## arotester (Jan 13, 2013)

can you tell something more about mike ,
did he poop recently? have the room temps changed lately(bump up the temp anyways) ? how long do you soak him(make it not less than 30 mins everyday)? was the diet right?
if all things were right then you need to find "reptile" vet ASAP , if not available then go to the vet you trust and just give it a try .That's all you could do ?
Also,you said he was eating a lot in your previous post so look into what you did different at that time.Tort need warm temp to digest food so keep the temp up by 3-5 deg cel. (whole enclosure)
Best of luck.


----------



## karleyreed (Jan 13, 2013)

arotester said:


> can you tell something more about mike ,
> did he poop recently? have the room temps changed lately(bump up the temp anyways) ? how long do you soak him(make it not less than 30 mins everyday)? was the diet right?
> if all things were right then you need to find "reptile" vet ASAP , if not available then go to the vet you trust and just give it a try .That's all you could do ?
> Also,you said he was eating a lot in your previous post so look into what you did different at that time.Tort need warm temp to digest food so keep the temp up by 3-5 deg cel. (whole enclosure)
> Best of luck.



He pooped and passed urine yesterday when he had a long soak. He ate quite a bit yesterday and seemed more active. Today though, he just seems lifeless! No energy what so ever. I've turned his CHE up to full in order to try and get some more heat. He's In a viv so it holds warmth and humidity quite well. He is currently on a diet of spring mix, I usually alternate everyday as to which other thing I give him. Spring greens, peppers, cucumber, turnip, mushrooms now and then, I've even tried zoo med pellets and a pre alpin mix of dried grasses. I'm going to see how he is the rest of the day and tomorrow and if nothing picks up in going to take him to the vets. Could he just be full and tired? He is only small, around an inch and a half - 2 inches long. I just don't know what else to do  I don't want him to die I feel like a failure.


----------



## cherylim (Jan 13, 2013)

Are you definitely checking the temperatures? You've been asked a few times but not mentioned any specifics, so please do check them properly if you've not done so far.


----------



## Laurie (Jan 13, 2013)

You do really need to be certain of your temperatures, are you checking them with a thermometer?


----------



## arotester (Jan 14, 2013)

karleyreed said:


> He pooped and passed urine yesterday when he had a long soak. He ate quite a bit yesterday and seemed more active. Today though, he just seems lifeless! No energy what so ever. I've turned his CHE up to full in order to try and get some more heat. He's In a viv so it holds warmth and humidity quite well. He is currently on a diet of spring mix, I usually alternate everyday as to which other thing I give him. Spring greens, peppers, cucumber, turnip, mushrooms now and then, I've even tried zoo med pellets and a pre alpin mix of dried grasses. I'm going to see how he is the rest of the day and tomorrow and if nothing picks up in going to take him to the vets. Could he just be full and tired? He is only small, around an inch and a half - 2 inches long. I just don't know what else to do  I don't want him to die I feel like a failure.



well tort need a lot of things to be active, e.g. bright light, optimum temp.Just mere heat won't make them active .
If he is not eating food directly then you should try the baby soaks or add carrot juice to the soak or electrolyte .
About being "full and tired ", he can't be full and tired by sleeping all day there must be something missing,either the habitat or the health.
just don't give up on him,hold on .
Hope he gets well soon ,good luck.


----------



## JoesMum (Jan 14, 2013)

Too much heat can make a tortoise inactive too.

Please use a thermometer, preferably a temperature gun to check temperatures accurately. Both the ambient (cool side) and under the basking lamp.


----------



## laney (Jan 14, 2013)

Hey, my little Yoshi has been acting exactly the same. I have his CHE on a thermostat so usually just go by that for temps but last night I temp checked the whole enclosure with temp gun and it was giving out really weird readings completely mixed even right under the CHE it was varying so much. Not really sure if its theCHE bulb needing replaced but its under a year old. Might be the same for you? It would be worth checking.


----------



## karleyreed (Jan 14, 2013)

Just done some temp checks. I'm thinking it's possibly too warm, however this confuses me as he's always at the warm side and won't venture to the cool side?? I got a reading of around 110 directly under the basking Spot, the warm side came back as being 80 and the cool side was, 70. 

Sorry for the late reply folks, I've just endured a 27hour shift so wasn't able to check these temps till now. He is a western hermanns tortoise. Around 1 and a half inches long, and approx 75g, I couldn't get a precise weight as the only scales I had were pretty old so I don't want to rely on them too much, I have some new ones on order though. Any more info you would like I will be happy to give you.


Some parts of his enclosure is darker than others, and that's the spots he tends to have his snooze or chill time, I have slightly re arrange to ensure light is getting to all areas of his enclosure. Apart from obviously under and inside his hides.


Also, I am perhaps wondering, if it could be the substrate? 3/4 of his enclosure is filled with tortoise life substrate, a mix of 50:50 top soil and sand with limestone pieces, then the other 1/4 is coco husk bark like substrate, this is at the warm end in order to maintain humidity. He seem to take to the coco husk right away, and quite enjoys burrowing himself in it, does any1 think I should covert the whole enclosure to just one substrate? Advice is very much appreciated.


His eyes are clear and so are his nostrils, I did though, notice he had what felt like a little scrape of chip in his shell. Also, I know this may sound silly, but do all torts feel cold to touch??













laney said:


> Hey, my little Yoshi has been acting exactly the same. I have his CHE on a thermostat so usually just go by that for temps but last night I temp checked the whole enclosure with temp gun and it was giving out really weird readings completely mixed even right under the CHE it was varying so much. Not really sure if its theCHE bulb needing replaced but its under a year old. Might be the same for you? It would be worth checking.



I hope yoshi gets better soon! I'm worried sick about mike!! I've kinky had him since November last year, so my CHE is only 3 month old. I'm thinking of perhaps replacing it though. I just need to get to the bottom of it. The next step will be a vet visit.











I have attached 2 videos, one of how slowly he moves, the other of his trying to eat, but just looking like he can't be bothered. He's now sat in the same spot, head half way in his shell with his eyes closed? This is just so out of character! 


<a href="http://s1284.photobucket.com/albums...D28BD9C8-482-000000D5D288FB62_zps07241929.mp4" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums...D28BD9C8-482-000000D5D288FB62_zps07241929.mp4" border="0" alt="Photobucket Pictures, Images and Photos" /></a>

<a href="http://s1284.photobucket.com/albums...F9F5D963-482-000000D65C513EA0_zpscf9fb78c.mp4" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums...F9F5D963-482-000000D65C513EA0_zpscf9fb78c.mp4" border="0" alt="Photobucket Pictures, Images and Photos" /></a>







http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums...D28BD9C8-482-000000D5D288FB62_zps07241929.mp4

http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums...F9F5D963-482-000000D65C513EA0_zpscf9fb78c.mp4


----------



## laney (Jan 14, 2013)

I know what you mean. Yeah under my CHE was giving warmer temps too but its weird coz he stays under the warm part. It's like mines is depressed! Won't bother with anything, its so frustrating. It sounds really similar to mike. Hope ur little guy feels better soon and someone can help.


----------



## JoesMum (Jan 14, 2013)

I'm just wondering. Are you use the CHE for basking? Normally that's used for extra heat and basking is under a spot lamp which provides a better focussed basking spot of the right temperature.


----------



## karleyreed (Jan 14, 2013)

JoesMum said:


> I'm just wondering. Are you use the CHE for basking? Normally that's used for extra heat and basking is under a spot lamp which provides a better focussed basking spot of the right temperature.



I only have a CHE. When I got everything for him that's all I was advised to have. He does sit under it though.




laney said:


> I know what you mean. Yeah under my CHE was giving warmer temps too but its weird coz he stays under the warm part. It's like mines is depressed! Won't bother with anything, its so frustrating. It sounds really similar to mike. Hope ur little guy feels better soon and someone can help.



I know it's horrible! Poor little guy! It really is frustrating. As I don't know what he wants / needs. I'm hoping it's just a phase or the seasons. Hoping he will chirp up soon! Let me know how yoshi gets on.


----------



## Thalatte (Jan 14, 2013)

Do you have a UVB source?


----------



## Yvonne G (Jan 14, 2013)

After seeing the picture, he's dehydrated. See how his eyes are sunken in? It won't hurt to put him into t little tub of water with a light placed at one end and just leave him there. I've made mistakes in the past and forgotten I had babies soaking and left them there all day. No harm will come to him as long as he doesn't tip upside down. Just keep checking on him and leave him in there for at least a half hour. Soak him every day or twice a day.


----------



## JoesMum (Jan 14, 2013)

karleyreed said:


> I only have a CHE. When I got everything for him that's all I was advised to have. He does sit under it though.


With only a CHE, the light levels are possibly not bright enough for proper activity. You are trying recreate a summer's day indoors and at this time of year in the Northern hemisphere, low light levels outdoors affect those indoors.

Try replacing the CHE with a spot lamp - standard 100W household spot bulb will do (not a low energy one)


----------



## karleyreed (Jan 14, 2013)

Yes I have a UVB source. I'll upload a pik of it. Him being hydrated, does that mean the enclosure is too warm? He gets soaked every other day, but I will take your advice and start and do it twice a day. Will I need another heat source? Or will just another UVB source work?



that's the current one I have. From what I can see on the bulb It says it's a 30 watt. And it is about half way up my enclosure.


Also, I can't replace the CHE as it gets so cold here on a night, I leave it on low.


----------



## JoesMum (Jan 14, 2013)

Your UVB provides just that and some light. By day your tort probably needs it even brighter plus the extra heat.

Last winter, when Joe couldn't hibernate, like you I had a Ceramic Heater that I used to keep the temperatures up overnight.

In the day, I have a UVB tuvbe and the CHE goes off . I use a spot lamp bulb to provide both extra light and a focussed heat source for basking.

You could try using a desk lamp or similar to get extra light into your enclosure, but a basking spot lamp would be better.


----------



## karleyreed (Jan 14, 2013)

JoesMum said:


> Your UVB provides just that and some light. By day your tort probably needs it even brighter plus the extra heat.
> 
> Last winter, when Joe couldn't hibernate, like you I had a Ceramic Heater that I used to keep the temperatures up overnight.
> 
> ...



Where could I get one? Just a normal reptile store? And where would I put it? In the warm end aswel? Half way up the enclosure? Would more heat not make him more dehydrated? Or could I just souley rely on that and as you say use the CHE as a night time heat source?? Good news is, he's eating again. He has water available 24/7 but never goes to it himself. Would the bulb in the new light have to be UVB also, aswel as heat efficient?


----------



## JoesMum (Jan 14, 2013)

You are not talking more heat. There is a very little heat from the UVB tube.

The spot lamp is instead of the CHE. At night the CHE would be on and the spot lamp off. In the day, the spot lamp on and the CHE off.

What you should get as a result of this, in the daytme, is more light which will encourage activity and a better focussed hot-spot for basking. (You said that temperatures under your CHE were all over the place)

You can get a basking lamp holder like this (there are several brands) from the pet store. The bulb that goes in it can be a standard 100W household spot lamp with a screw thread (It's cheaper than branded reptile ones from the pet store)


----------



## karleyreed (Jan 14, 2013)

JoesMum said:


> You are not talking more heat. There is a very little heat from the UVB tube.
> 
> The spot lamp is instead of the CHE. At night the CHE would be on and the spot lamp off. In the day, the spot lamp on and the CHE off.
> 
> ...



Ok thankyou!! That's great news. I shall Defo take your advice and get back to you on improvements / no improvements. Thanks again.


I've ordered that exact lamp, will this bulb be sufficient?


----------



## JoesMum (Jan 14, 2013)

That's great 

Just remember that at night you want the temperature in the 60s. You don't need basking heat, so you can turn the CHE down


----------



## karleyreed (Jan 14, 2013)

JoesMum said:


> That's great
> 
> Just remember that at night you want the temperature in the 60s. You don't need basking heat, so you can turn the CHE down



Thankyou! So will the spot lamp give off enough heat? And the CHE won't need to be on during the day? Sorry for all of the questions, just want to be 100% sure


----------



## JoesMum (Jan 14, 2013)

Hopefully it will be fine. There are no guarantees, but I can't why it wouldn't work.

To adjust the basking temperature, move the basking lamp up or down. The closer it is to the substrate, the hotter it will be under it. Put a piece of stone, slate or tile under the lamp. Your tort will love to lie on it under the lamp


----------



## laney (Jan 14, 2013)

Is a basking lamp safe for a viv? I was under the impression they weren't but could be wrong. I noticed Yoshi go down hill when I separated him from Harley and I though he might be missing the heat lamp so when I gave him an one top extension attached onto his viv I added a heat lamp on the added bit as well as the CHE. Have to admit though its still the CHE he stays fixed under all the time.


----------



## laney (Jan 16, 2013)

How's you little fella today?


----------



## luvpetz27 (Jan 16, 2013)

How is he doing? any better?


----------



## karleyreed (Jan 17, 2013)

Hes eating again which is good I guess. Still quite lazy though. The other light hasn't arrived yet so will see how he's gettin in when it does! Thanks for asking! What about yoshi?


----------



## laney (Jan 17, 2013)

Still very lethargic but he just ate a little but, not ha huge amount but more than he has for a while so that's good, had to lay him in the food though, he just had a soak and had a little drink so I'm happy he has ate and drank hopefully will give him more energy


----------



## karleyreed (Jan 18, 2013)

laney said:


> Still very lethargic but he just ate a little but, not ha huge amount but more than he has for a while so that's good, had to lay him in the food though, he just had a soak and had a little drink so I'm happy he has ate and drank hopefully will give him more energy



That's good. Glad to see he's getting there! Always a positive! Fingers crossed for them both.


----------



## Tortus (Jan 20, 2013)

The thing I learned about reptile basking lamps is you always need to keep a spare. They don't last long at all compared to a regular light bulb. Maybe because your average household incandescent bulb doesn't get as much daily use. One morning not long from now you'll flip the switch and see a little flash, then it's dead.

I'm wondering if this slow down has something to do with winter? I've seen a few posts lately from people with cold winters and they're saying something similar. My leopard has been going to bed between 2 and 4 pm lately and not eating quite quite as much. It still finishes all the Mazuri but is leaving some of the greens. But while it's up it seems normal enough.


----------



## karleyreed (Jan 21, 2013)

Tortus said:


> The thing I learned about reptile basking lamps is you always need to keep a spare. They don't last long at all compared to a regular light bulb. Maybe because your average household incandescent bulb doesn't get as much daily use. One morning not long from now you'll flip the switch and see a little flash, then it's dead.
> 
> I'm wondering if this slow down has something to do with winter? I've seen a few posts lately from people with cold winters and they're saying something similar. My leopard has been going to bed between 2 and 4 pm lately and not eating quite quite as much. It still finishes all the Mazuri but is leaving some of the greens. But while it's up it seems normal enough.



That was my exact thought, and I am hoping it is just due to the weather! We have lots of snow here now, temps are around minus 7 during the day and lower on a night. Thus, making my house colder, even with heating on. He is still eatin, not a great deal but still eating. But would rather laze around and sleep all day than anything else :/


----------



## MasterOogway (Jan 21, 2013)

I have found that to be true with the temperatures of winter. Today us very cold so I ha


----------



## karleyreed (Jan 25, 2013)

karleyreed said:


> Been to the vets with mike. They said I seem to be doing everything correctly, only thing they noticed was he was a bit squishy, so they told me to wet mikes food before sprinkling the calcium dust on it, I've tried him with cuttlebone and a calcium zoo med block and he won't touch them. They think he may be a little calcium deficient  but said it won't have done him any harm yet, and to up the temps in his viv. He's too small to have any form of calcium injection so fingers crossed!!!!


----------



## Cowboy_Ken (Jan 25, 2013)

I agree, you can never have too many back up bulbs. I prefer to use this type of basking bulb over the tube types. This bulb provides an active hot, basking spot while supplying the needed uv for calcium absorption. On the other end of the enclosure I have a CHE on a thermostat. Day time, while the spot is on, the CHE doesn't come on as often due to the heat supplied by the spot. At night, no light and temps are automatically controlled regardless of room temps. 

View attachment 36574


Maybe I'm a powersun hoarder?


View attachment 36575


----------



## sibi (Jan 25, 2013)

Of your tort is a sulcata, his hide should be 90 degrees. His basking high could go to 105 degrees. Warm soaks could be up to 1 hour provided you place a light bulb lamp over him to keep the water warm. Do you see bubbles Coming out of his nose or mouth? Do you hear Strange noises from him?


----------



## karleyreed (Jan 25, 2013)

sibi said:


> Of your tort is a sulcata, his hide should be 90 degrees. His basking high could go to 105 degrees. Warm soaks could be up to 1 hour provided you place a light bulb lamp over him to keep the water warm. Do you see bubbles Coming out of his nose or mouth? Do you hear Strange noises from him?



He is a western hermanns. I soak him under his CHE and nope no bubbles or noises. Vet said his eyes and nose looked clear and fine


----------



## sibi (Jan 25, 2013)

Glad to hear that. So, what does the vet think is going on?


----------



## karleyreed (Jan 25, 2013)

sibi said:


> Glad to hear that. So, what does the vet think is going on?



Perhaps the temp, and a slight calcium
Deficiency


----------



## Cowboy_Ken (Jan 25, 2013)

Karley, it is important to remember that tortoises require heat and uv to metabolize calcium. All the calcium in the world will pass unabsorbed if these are missing.


----------



## jamiescorer (Jan 25, 2013)

Hi I have a number of a vet in gosforh he has his own tortoises, I've not used him but a friend said he's good, let me know if you need the number


----------



## karleyreed (Jan 25, 2013)

Cowboy_Ken said:


> Karley, it is important to remember that tortoises require heat and uv to metabolize calcium. All the calcium in the world will pass unabsorbed if these are missing.



I do have both of these


----------



## jamiescorer (Jan 25, 2013)

Fingers crossed for you


----------



## karleyreed (Jan 25, 2013)

jamiescorer said:


> Fingers crossed for you



Thanks


----------



## skottip (Jan 25, 2013)

Are you using calcium with or without vitamin D? Is the underside of the shell unusually soft? UV bulbs do not last long at all. When I say "last" I mean the actual UV output. Nothing beats natural UV rays. I am happy I am in Florida. Natural sunshine 363 days a year! (had to take them in twice due to cold)
lol
Good luck!
Scott


----------



## karleyreed (Jan 25, 2013)

skottip said:


> Are you using calcium with or without vitamin D? Is the underside of the shell unusually soft? UV bulbs do not last long at all. When I say "last" I mean the actual UV output. Nothing beats natural UV rays. I am happy I am in Florida. Natural sunshine 363 days a year! (had to take them in twice due to cold)
> lol
> Good luck!
> Scott



With vitamin D the vet just said he was "squidgy" lol he's only 15 month, also, the vet thinks he is a she!! Haha. Unfortunately I live in th north east of England where it's usually cold 363 days of the year. I've only had my UVB light since November.


----------



## Thalatte (Jan 25, 2013)

What brand of uv bulb is it?


----------



## jamiescorer (Jan 25, 2013)

When did we get two warm days lol


----------



## karleyreed (Jan 25, 2013)

A tube UVB I have a basking light to put in there just waiting for
My dad to
Install it
For extra light and heat, with a 100w bulb. And very true! Haha. We never have a hot day!


----------



## Cowboy_Ken (Jan 25, 2013)

If your vet is suggesting he can sex a young tortoise, I would suggest it's time for a new vet. I hope it pulls through for you!


----------



## sibi (Jan 25, 2013)

So, you just got the UVb bulb in November. What were you using before that? If your vet said that he thinks it calcium deficiency, does he also think that there may be MBD setting in? Did he x-rays Mike?


----------



## karleyreed (Jan 26, 2013)

I only got mike then too. So I've always used a UVB ever since he has been in my care. The vet mentioned nothing about MBD and said that it hasn't done too much damage at this stage. They said they couldn't give mike a calcium injection as he is too small and it would kill him. He is only 15 months, about 1/1.5 inches long, western hermanns species. I myself
Was under the impression that young torts do feel slightly squidgy, but I guess I was wrong. And no they didn't X-ray him.


I did see a post on here where some ones tort was acting the same as mike and it had kidney stones. I'm hoping he doesn't have these!! The vet did shine a light under mikes shell and over the top and no light showed through which he said was good. I wish he was a little bigger so they could have done something 


I bought an exo terra basking light, as advised by a member. I have a vivarium, not an open top enclosure, will this be safe to go inside the viv?






is this the correct bulb to be using? As it doesn't state anything about UVB?! Starting to get really angry with myself now


----------



## karleyreed (Jan 26, 2013)

Turns out I can't use the clamp lamp I was told to buy, as I have a viv, not an open top enclosure.


----------



## jamiescorer (Jan 26, 2013)

Sounds a frustrating day for you, you seem determined to get it right though,


----------



## karleyreed (Jan 26, 2013)

jamiescorer said:


> Sounds a frustrating day for you, you seem determined to get it right though,



Very frustrating!!! And very determined. I'm not letting him fail without a fight.


----------



## jamiescorer (Jan 26, 2013)

Sounds like he's in good hands you've listened to all the advice, took him to the vets, probably spent a small fortune, your giving him every chance, sounds like good tortoise keeping to me, good luck.


----------



## Thalatte (Jan 26, 2013)

I know you have a tube UVB but what brand is it? The reptisun brand degrade rapidly and should be replaced every 5-6 months. But the Arcadia brand bulbs last longer and only need to be replaced once a year. Zilla brand bulbs are known For causing eye problems and other serious medical ailments in anoles and I wouldn't advise using them at all on a tort. I know there are other brands but these are the only ones I know of.
For basking bulbs I don't use the petstore brands instead I use low wattage outdoor halogen flood bulbs. Not only are the bulbs themselves cheaper but they of out more heat at a lower wattage so it saves electricity. And they seem to las longer.
Do you have a pic of your set up? We might be able to help with mounting lights if we can see what you have to work with.


----------



## laney (Jan 26, 2013)

karleyreed said:


> Turns out I can't use the clamp lamp I was told to buy, as I have a viv, not an open top enclosure.



Do you have any space to attach something onto your viv and remove a piece of glass so he has an open top extension?
That's what I did and he now has CHE and UVB inside viv part and basking bulb on open extension. I don't think the bulb is going to fix whats wrong with him but it might make him a bit happier?
This was my emergency extension when I thought Yoshi was missing the basking lamp, it's a XL cheap dog bed with a ramp...




Then when I had more time I changed to this...




I too was told that young torts shells have a little movement, I guess it depends how much?!
How is he acting now?????
He will make it you are a good momma!!


----------



## mytortET (Jan 26, 2013)

* I sympathize with you.... I have a sick sully that I've been stressing about since Tuesday! Took him to the vet and trying everything to nurse him back to health!  Can't wait for the weather to get better.

Hope your tort feels better soon!*


----------



## sibi (Jan 26, 2013)

The reason why I asked about the x-rays is because with that a vet can see if the boney structure is solidifying. If not, there's some indication that MBD has set in and calcium along with UVB (either artificial or real sunlight) is vital. What you can do to get this to him, if weather is not warm enough, is to make perfectly sure that your bulb states UVB on the box it came in. The basking light you got him is fine for warmth, but what you need for nights when all lights go out is a CHE near his hide. You see, what I think is the problem with your baby is warmth and lighting. Fix those things, and the warm soaks should help immensely. I hope for both of you that he gets better quick.



karleyreed said:


> I only got mike then too. So I've always used a UVB ever since he has been in my care. The vet mentioned nothing about MBD and said that it hasn't done too much damage at this stage. They said they couldn't give mike a calcium injection as he is too small and it would kill him. He is only 15 months, about 1/1.5 inches long, western hermanns species. I myself
> Was under the impression that young torts do feel slightly squidgy, but I guess I was wrong. And no they didn't X-ray him.


----------



## MasterOogway (Jan 26, 2013)

laney said:


> karleyreed said:
> 
> 
> > Turns out I can't use the clamp lamp I was told to buy, as I have a viv, not an open top enclosure.
> ...


----------



## karleyreed (Jan 27, 2013)

Laney, how did you make that open top extension? That seems like a really good idea!! And sibi, the light I have states on the actual light that it is UVB and UVA I'm thinking about getting another one and puttin it underneath the one I already have, just incase, I have a
CHE it stays on all day and night I just turn it down on a night, but that's all I have for a heat source. I have been giving him a warm soak everyday. Let's just hope things get better and it's just the weather aswel  nothing worse than having a poorly tort. Thanks for your concerns and advice everyone! Very much appreciated x


I've also just noticed that some
Of the skin on his back legs looks like it may be shreading?


----------



## laney (Jan 27, 2013)

karleyreed said:


> Laney, how did you make that open top extension? That seems like a really good idea!! And sibi, the light I have states on the actual light that it is UVB and UVA I'm thinking about getting another one and puttin it underneath the one I already have, just incase, I have a
> CHE it stays on all day and night I just turn it down on a night, but that's all I have for a heat source. I have been giving him a warm soak everyday. Let's just hope things get better and it's just the weather aswel  nothing worse than having a poorly tort. Thanks for your concerns and advice everyone! Very much appreciated x
> 
> 
> ...





It depends what you have your viv on, if you have it on a table you will need something of a similar height to put the extension on otherwise you need to build a ramp which is awfully scuttery unless you have the time and joinery skills lol.
For the one I have now (lower pic) I bought a unit from ikea which was just like a square 4sided box, but any old furniture you have lying around can easily be converted 
I just removed one side so it was like a giant 'U' shape and found an old bit of wood big enough to screw onto bottom.
I removed one piece of the glass pushed the 3sided unit (with base attached) up against viv and lined with heavy duty tarpolen, making sure to flap it over the lip of the viv to stop substrate getting out any cracks.
Then decorate 
It's an easy way to try an extension without ruining the viv.

I think and hope mike will be fine, it sounds similar to what Yoshi was going through for a few months and he is coming out the other side now (touch wood).
You are giving him the UVB/UVA he needs,
He has heat from his CHE which you have checked temps with people
You give him calcium
Food and water
And
Lots of love 
I don't know if you do already but soak him everyday to make sure he gets fluid and try baby food soaks too.
X


----------



## karleyreed (Jan 27, 2013)

My viv is on the floor. I have been giving him warm soaks but not tried the baby food, what baby food should I use? He's still very lethargic today, had a few nibbles to eat and had a small bowel movement.


----------



## laney (Jan 27, 2013)

That's perfect for adding an extension then if you can find some old furniture or bits of wood 

He is nibbling which is good rather than nothing at all and a little choco present is always a good sign lol
I looked for organic carrot but couldn't find it without any other veg in it so I ended up trying a few different fruit ones watered down. Yoshi was totally fooled by the apple and mango one he was trying to eat the air above the water coz it smelled so good lol. Tricked him into drinking for a while. He knows the trick now though :s I think as long as you check the ingredients to make sure there's nothing in it that's bad for him, and go organic 
Is he drinking or not much?
And does he act any different if your CHE is turned up a little? Turning it up a little with Yoshi didn't make a difference but its worth a try.
I think persistence is what will help but I'm still newish to all this too.
If you are worried about the UVB, you could always lower it a bit so its closer.
X




karleyreed said:


> My viv is on the floor. I have been giving him warm soaks but not tried the baby food, what baby food should I use? He's still very lethargic today, had a few nibbles to eat and had a small bowel movement.


----------



## karleyreed (Jan 27, 2013)

laney said:


> That's perfect for adding an extension then if you can find some old furniture or bits of wood
> 
> He is nibbling which is good rather than nothing at all and a little choco present is always a good sign lol
> I looked for organic carrot but couldn't find it without any other veg in it so I ended up trying a few different fruit ones watered down. Yoshi was totally fooled by the apple and mango one he was trying to eat the air above the water coz it smelled so good lol. Tricked him into drinking for a while. He knows the trick now though :s I think as long as you check the ingredients to make sure there's nothing in it that's bad for him, and go organic
> ...





He's not been drinkin a great deal tbh, I do put him in his water dish several times a day but he's stubborn! Lol. He CHE is on full, and not really making a difference :/ I havent seen him do a wee in a while, 2 days I think, and when he did do one it was tiny. I've even lowered the CHE to see if that helps, I will give the baby food soaks a go and see if that helps.


----------



## Laurie (Jan 27, 2013)

Karley, I would really try to pm gbtortoises on this one. I think I read something he posted before about your temps being too warm at night, I'm not sure. But I would shoot him a pm and ask him if I were you.


----------



## karleyreed (Jan 27, 2013)

Laurie said:


> Karley, I would really try to pm gbtortoises on this one. I think I read something he posted before about your temps being too warm at night, I'm not sure. But I would shoot him a pm and ask him if I were you.



He just always seems cold, burrows a lot and when I pick him up he's always cold to touch. But I will do thanks.


----------



## Shannon and Jason (Jan 27, 2013)

Might put a heating pad underneath your enclosure it will help warm the ground so he won't get so cold


----------



## Cowboy_Ken (Jan 27, 2013)

Have you one if those point at temp gun things? Feels cold doesn't really mean much for a warm blooded animal feeling a cold blooded animal. If you use a heating pad under your habitat, make sure to elevate the side with the pad under it. Contained/compressed heating pads cause fires or at least scorch your rug.


I think you really need to put your CHE on a thermostat with a reliable digital thermometer so you can accurately control your temps without guessing.


----------



## karleyreed (Jan 28, 2013)

My CHE is on a thermostat. I have digital thermometers in his enclosure. It's not looking good though  I'm currently at work but my mam just phoned and told me he's struggling to walk properly and seems really weak. His front legs are struggling. And his head is just flopping. She's trying him with a warm baby food
Soak to see if that helps. Got another appointment to see a specialised reptile vet. I don't know what more I can do? I feel like I've done everything I can and he's just not getting better :'(


----------



## sibi (Jan 28, 2013)

It's time to take him to see the vet asap. He's been sick too long, and everything you've tried isn't working. I hope he doesn't have pneumonia or some parasite /worms. Make the vet take an x-rays too to rule out stones in the bladder.


----------



## karleyreed (Jan 28, 2013)

sibi said:


> It's time to take him to see the vet asap. He's been sick too long, and everything you've tried isn't working. I hope he doesn't have pneumonia or some parasite /worms. Make the vet take an x-rays too to rule out stones in the bladder.



I took him a few days ago, and they just said he was calcium deficient. He just seems to be getting more weak.
I've done everything people have advised
Me to do on here and nothing seems to be working.


How can you tell if it's pneumonia? And how do you get rid of that?


How long is safe to travel with a tort without UVB and heat in
Order to get him to the vets?


----------



## WillTort2 (Jan 28, 2013)

Hi Karley,

After reading your thread, I think part of the problem may be the cold being conducted through direct contact with the floor. 

If you remember seeing the old bed styles of the 18th century they were 3 to 4 feet( a meter or more) off the floor. The temperature difference between the floor level and the upper half of the room can be 15 degrees F or more. 

You may wish to try placing your viv on top of an old dining table or insulate with 4 inch to 6 inch blocks of foam to protect from the cold.

Good luck.


----------



## cherylim (Jan 28, 2013)

karleyreed said:


> How long is safe to travel with a tort without UVB and heat in
> Order to get him to the vets?




You don't want to travel without heat whilst the weather's like this. Get your car warmed up before you drive, rather than letting it warm as you're going. If you have any of those little hand warmers (where you crack them and they warm up), they make good padding. Otherwise, warm a towel on a radiator or in the dryer and use that.

Good luck.


----------



## karleyreed (Jan 28, 2013)

Thanks
For the advice! My viv
Is in my bedroom, second floor of the house, doesn't beat travel upwards? Therefore the floor shouldn't be too cold? I will do what youve said though. Thanks. Fingers crossed.


----------



## Cowboy_Ken (Jan 28, 2013)

Will your work allow you to bugger out early to get to the vet sooner? Sorry you're having to go through all this with your little one. The weakness and lack of motor control point me to think calcium deficient as well.


----------



## karleyreed (Jan 28, 2013)

Cowboy_Ken said:


> Will your work allow you to bugger out early to get to the vet sooner? Sorry you're having to go through all this with your little one. The weakness and lack of motor control point me to think calcium deficient as well.



I can't, I've asked and they can't get my shift covered. I work in a challenging behaviour unit with autistic teenagers who are all 2:1 staff to service user at all times and there is just the right amount for that on. My mam is going to take him to the vets tomorrow morning at 9.30 his front legs just seem very weak. He is a mediterranean western hermans, from what I've researched on them, they are great big drinkers, as they're from dry climates. They like to burrows in most ground, which mike does, and don't eat a great deal, bearing in mind he is only 1-1.5 inches long he eats a considerable amount I think, not so much ATM though. Which is why I'm struggling with the calcium. Would a soak with added
Calcium powder work do you think? And how far should his uv light be from the bottom of his enclosure? I also read that baby torts heat up quicker than adults, but he feels cold to touch most of the time. It's all very baffling to me! And extremely frustrating as I can't seem to do anything right! 


Ever since I have had him I have provided calcium powder and neutrobol D3 powder to his food almost everyday. I am unaware
Of the conditions he came from though. Is it possible this could have all developed before I got him? I feel like a failure!


----------



## cherylim (Jan 28, 2013)

Hope it works out Karley!

I know you've spent a lot already, but perhaps consider getting a tortoise table and an MVB in future. It's more likely to encourage your tortoise to bask properly, under the light, and to get the full impact of the UV rays to process the calcium.

It's just my personal advice, and I know the tubes theoretically are absolutely fine, but I think your tortoise could probably do with a strong, focused light that it can bask under properly.


----------



## karleyreed (Jan 28, 2013)

cherylim said:


> Hope it works out Karley!
> 
> I know you've spent a lot already, but perhaps consider getting a tortoise table and an MVB in future. It's more likely to encourage your tortoise to bask properly, under the light, and to get the full impact of the UV rays to process the calcium.
> 
> It's just my personal advice, and I know the tubes theoretically are absolutely fine, but I think your tortoise could probably do with a strong, focused light that it can bask under properly.



It's my own fault really, I thought I had researched things properly before I got him but clearly I didn't and I was conned into getting a viv :/ the basking
Light I have, I'm trying to working out a way in which I can fit it into my enclosure, and I am going to go out and look for a UVB light for it as I only bought a basking light to go with it. I'm thinking as a temporary thing, using the neck from
A desk lamp and attaching the light and bulb to that and putting that into the enclosure itself.
I just want him to get better, the love you develop between you and a tortoise is unbelievable. I never thought I would be as attached as I am.
I just don't understand, I've been doing everything I have been advised, I guess I'm just unlucky.


----------



## Shannon and Jason (Jan 28, 2013)

I am praying for a full recovery for Mike, sorry he not doing well.


----------



## karleyreed (Jan 28, 2013)

Shannon and Jason said:


> I am praying for a full recovery for Mike, sorry he not doing well.



Thankyou means alot


----------



## sibi (Jan 28, 2013)

Don't start blaming yourself. It isn't good for you or Mikey. A couple of good things were told to you.
1. If traveling with Mikey, use a hot pack. You can get that at any CVS or Walgreens. 
2. Warm the car first before putting Mikey in the car.
3. Place baby higher off the floor. Heat rises. You can also put him on your stomach or chest. Your heat will warm him up fast. If at all possible, let him sleep on you for an hour or so.
4. If the baby does turn out to have pneumonia, your vet can prescribe antibiotic injections to be given every other day. 
5. For now, until you find out for sure what's wrong with your baby, I would keep his substrate dry and warm. If you are using a humidifier, that should keep him humid enough.
6. Tell your mom to demand an x-rays to be done to check for stones in the bladder.

I hope you learn something tomorrow.


----------



## karleyreed (Jan 28, 2013)

sibi said:


> Don't start blaming yourself. It isn't good for you or Mikey. A couple of good things were told to you.
> 1. If traveling with Mikey, use a hot pack. You can get that at any CVS or Walgreens.
> 2. Warm the car first before putting Mikey in the car.
> 3. Place baby higher off the floor. Heat rises. You can also put him on your stomach or chest. Your heat will warm him up fast. If at all possible, let him sleep on you for an hour or so.
> ...



I don't use a humidifier but his substrate is misted numerous times a day. I just don't know what else to do. It's night time here in the uk now, so his lights are off for now. I'm just praying he make it through the night. I just wanna sit and watch him to make sure he's ok. I haven't stopped crying all day, it's just such an awful feeling and seeing him the way he is, is heartbreaking. When I went to the vets a few days ago they said he was too small to prescribe calcium injections so I'm thinking the same about any other treatment :/


----------



## sibi (Jan 28, 2013)

Not true. Pick your baby up and put him on your body. Love on him, let him know how much you're suffering because you fear for his life. Warm him up. And, if your vet KNOWS what he's doing, he can give antibiotics to even a young tort. It may be better than letting him die! Spend az much time with him as you can! Then, leave the rest up to God and prayers. I will pray for you both.


----------



## laney (Jan 28, 2013)

That is really crap that he isn't doing good. Fingers crossed for him and I will be thinking of you both, I hope things get sorted out at the vet!


----------



## karleyreed (Jan 29, 2013)

Mike passed away this morning at the vets. :'(


----------



## Creedence (Jan 29, 2013)

I'm so sorry this happened to you.  RIP Mike.


----------



## laney (Jan 29, 2013)

Omg I'm so sorry 

You gave him a brilliant chance at life and done everything you could, please don't blame yourself!!!
Did they diagnose the problem if you don't mind me asking?
Maybe it just wasn't meant to be  RIP mike you little angel!
Post your fave pic of your little baby and let us see his beautiful face one last time
Xxxx


----------



## jamiescorer (Jan 29, 2013)

Sorry to hear that, you did everything you could


----------



## karleyreed (Jan 29, 2013)

laney said:


> Omg I'm so sorry
> 
> You gave him a brilliant chance at life and done everything you could, please don't blame yourself!!!
> Did they diagnose the problem if you don't mind me asking?
> ...



He said he couldn't tell the problem, he didn't think mikes shell was unusually squidgy for his age, looked in his mouth for uncles etc, couldn't find any, said it was unlikely that he was hibernating, as he had been eating yesterday, done a few tests, couldn't hear mikes heart beating, his eyes were closed and had a film over them, he pricked his foot with a needle to see if there was any reaction and there wasn't. He said we could send off for a post mortim but they still might not be able to diagnose what the cause was. He scanned mike to check if he was Defo microchipped, and he was, he said it could have been an infection from that, just said babies are really hard to raise and it's not uncommon for them to pass. Was a different vet I wet to the first time. I'm gutted :'( I loved him more than anything. Going to bury him in the garden.


----------



## cherylim (Jan 29, 2013)

Sorry to hear that. RIP Mike.


----------



## sparkle (Jan 29, 2013)

That's so sad, really sorry for you :-( 


X


----------



## DaisyDuke (Jan 29, 2013)

karleyreed said:


> He said he couldn't tell the problem, he didn't think mikes shell was unusually squidgy for his age, looked in his mouth for uncles etc, couldn't find any, said it was unlikely that he was hibernating, as he had been eating yesterday, done a few tests, couldn't hear mikes heart beating, his eyes were closed and had a film over them, he pricked his foot with a needle to see if there was any reaction and there wasn't. He said we could send off for a post mortim but they still might not be able to diagnose what the cause was. He scanned mike to check if he was Defo microchipped, and he was, he said it could have been an infection from that, just said babies are really hard to raise and it's not uncommon for them to pass. Was a different vet I wet to the first time. I'm gutted :'( I loved him more than anything. Going to bury him in the garden.





I'm so sorry for your loss


----------



## luvpetz27 (Jan 29, 2013)

I have been reading all your posts and I was praying for Mike and you. I am so so very sorry. I cant even imagine what u are going thru. You are a wonderful person for doing everything you could for him. you are in my thoughts. Please hang in there!


----------



## testtudude (Jan 29, 2013)

Karley

I am so sorry for your loss. I know how much a person can love a little tort. I also lost the first baby tort I owned after 3 months of giving him everything I could. You will feel better in time. Just know that baby tortoises are very fragile creatures and may pass unexpected, even with the best of care. It took me almost a year to be able to recover but I have since bought two Russian torts that always warm my heart. RIP little Mike


----------



## lynnedit (Jan 29, 2013)

How difficult this has been for you. So sorry to hear about your loss.


----------



## Laurie (Jan 29, 2013)

Sorry Karley, I had a little baby pass too, its very hard. It will get better with time.


----------



## MasterOogway (Jan 29, 2013)

I am so sorry for your loss. I know you loved Mikey and you did everything you could. He was blessed to have someone love him so much.


----------



## laney (Jan 29, 2013)

karleyreed said:


> He said he couldn't tell the problem, he didn't think mikes shell was unusually squidgy for his age, looked in his mouth for uncles etc, couldn't find any, said it was unlikely that he was hibernating, as he had been eating yesterday, done a few tests, couldn't hear mikes heart beating, his eyes were closed and had a film over them, he pricked his foot with a needle to see if there was any reaction and there wasn't. He said we could send off for a post mortim but they still might not be able to diagnose what the cause was. He scanned mike to check if he was Defo microchipped, and he was, he said it could have been an infection from that, just said babies are really hard to raise and it's not uncommon for them to pass. Was a different vet I wet to the first time. I'm gutted :'( I loved him more than anything. Going to bury him in the garden.





Aww I'm absolutely gutted for you.
You gave him a good life and he loved his momma x


----------



## ulkal (Jan 29, 2013)

I am so sorry and sad about your loss. You did everything you could.
All the best.


----------



## karleyreed (Jan 29, 2013)

Thankyou all
For the kind regard. Mike will be a huge miss to our family unit. Everyone loved him more than anything. Defo gna take a while to get over him. But I do eventually wanna get another tort. Until then, I will research and research and more research. No1 or no Tort will ever replace mike. RIP my little angel :'(


----------



## DaisyDuke (Jan 29, 2013)

karleyreed said:


> Thankyou all
> For the kind regard. Mike will be a huge miss to our family unit. Everyone loved him more than anything. Defo gna take a while to get over him. But I do eventually wanna get another tort. Until then, I will research and research and more research. No1 or no Tort will ever replace mike. RIP my little angel :'(



I think you getting a new tort in the future is a great idea. You really did do a great job. Baby torts as you can see from some of the replies you've gotten are just SO fragile. I got my Sheldon as a juvenile because I saw how fragile babies are. My thoughts and prayers are with you <3


----------



## karleyreed (Jan 29, 2013)

How old are juivaniles?? The vet said mike was really small, and he didn't think he had been raised correctly from him hatching, which was no fault of my own as I got him when he was 1year old. Or so I was made told. I can't help but blame myself though  it really is heart reaching.


----------



## luvpetz27 (Jan 29, 2013)

You can not blame yourself!! You did not have him when he was born. You did everything you could to help him.You cant think any of this was your fault!!!Like I said before, I think you are a great person for doing allthat you did for him. I know its hard but hang in there. You have a lot of people on this forum that are thinking of you and we all know you did everything you could.


----------



## sibi (Jan 29, 2013)

Karley, I feel so bad for you. Did you pick him up last night and hold him close to you like I suggested? I k ow Mikey was asleep, and so I'm wondering if you had a chance to hold him close to you? I ask only because you at least would have spent the last hours of his life close to each other. The love was there anyway, but I think you would have liked that. I will continue thinking about you and your baby for a long while as I always do for other members who have lost their babies.


----------



## Shannon and Jason (Jan 29, 2013)

I am sorry Mike passed.........The pics you posted he was one beautiful tort


----------



## CtTortoiseMom (Jan 29, 2013)

Like everyone else, I am just really sorry for your loss. RIP Mike


----------



## l0velesly (Jan 29, 2013)

So sorry to hear  I really thought he would do fine. I will miss seeing pictures of him!


----------



## diaboliqueturtle (Jan 29, 2013)

Oh Karley, my heart aches for you. So so sorry :'-(


----------



## Cowboy_Ken (Jan 29, 2013)

I'm sorry. Know you did the best. Often times when babies don't make it, it has nothing to do with their current care, and more to do with the prior care.


----------



## animalfreak (Jan 29, 2013)

I am so sorry!!!! I nearly cried reading it especially seeing his pics! You did all you could dont blame yourself. He's in a better place now, and he's not suffering just know that he's ok now. Are you considering getting another tort? I think it helps heal the pain. I have 2 sullies since October and I love them so much and I know you loved Mike and I can't tell you how sorry I am. I've lost 3 beardies and I'm so determined to not slack and have a perfect healthy long lived tort. If something were to happen I think I would give up. But I didn't and I helped Molly when she was sick and I'm so happy. Maybe another kind and more research. I'm so sorry any thing we are here for you!


----------



## Momof4 (Jan 29, 2013)

So sorry Karly!! You tried so hard to save Mike. I feel so bad for you. (((Hugs)))


----------



## leonardo the tmnt (Jan 29, 2013)

I'm so sorry for your loss


----------



## KingInCulver (Jan 29, 2013)

Sorry for your loss. It sounds like you did everything you could have done for him and I hope your heart finds peace. I pray that you will find the courage to have a tort again if only for the clear fact that you have a lot of love to give and surely there is a tort out there in need of a caring owner like you.


----------



## laney (Feb 2, 2013)

Hi,

How are you holding up?
I hope you will still stick around on the forum


----------



## karleyreed (Feb 2, 2013)

laney said:


> Hi,
> 
> How are you holding up?
> I hope you will still stick around on the forum



Heya. I keep checking it now and then. I complained to the pet shop owner I got mike from, I never liked that guy anyway, he said he would give me another tort free of charge. I'm optimistic about his offer as it will be another baby more than likely. Don't know if I can put myself through that again. I buried Mike today. Got a tort ornament, a lamp and a candle for his grave, lit a lantern and sent it off too. Buried him in a nice box with his flannel to keep him warm when he passes. It's weird because since mike died, a lot or strange things have been happening! I came home today and the light in his enclosure was on and no one was in the house. I just think its him telling us he's sticking around in spirit


----------



## laney (Feb 2, 2013)

karleyreed said:


> Heya. I keep checking it now and then. I complained to the pet shop owner I got mike from, I never liked that guy anyway, he said he would give me another tort free of charge. I'm optimistic about his offer as it will be another baby more than likely. Don't know if I can put myself through that again. I buried Mike today. Got a tort ornament, a lamp and a candle for his grave, lit a lantern and sent it off too. Buried him in a nice box with his flannel to keep him warm when he passes. It's weird because since mike died, a lot or strange things have been happening! I came home today and the light in his enclosure was on and no one was in the house. I just think its him telling us he's sticking around in spirit



Good to hear from ya 
That's really beautiful what you have done to remember little mike <3
Only you can decide whether to get another or not, I think it was just bad luck about mike as he seemed to be doing well to start with. If it was me I think I'd want a little time to absorb before getting another but definitely would in time, but if you are up for it then go for it . It will never replace mike but there's always gona be space in you heart for a new little tort


----------



## karleyreed (Feb 2, 2013)

laney said:


> Good to hear from ya
> That's really beautiful what you have done to remember little mike <3
> Only you can decide whether to get another or not, I think it was just bad luck about mike as he seemed to be doing well to start with. If it was me I think I'd want a little time to absorb before getting another but definitely would in time, but if you are up for it then go for it . It will never replace mike but there's always gona be space in you heart for a new little tort



Yeah I know, which makes me think it was my fault lol. I don't wanna put another tort through that If I was to blame :/ I'm not rushing into anything, And if I did decide to get one in the future, I would get an older tort. Babies are very hard work. There will always be a place in my heart for a new tort, maybe again one day. But for now I'm going to continue my research.


----------



## laney (Feb 2, 2013)

karleyreed said:


> Yeah I know, which makes me think it was my fault lol. I don't wanna put another tort through that If I was to blame :/ I'm not rushing into anything, And if I did decide to get one in the future, I would get an older tort. Babies are very hard work. There will always be a place in my heart for a new tort, maybe again one day. But for now I'm going to continue my research.



It wasn't your fault Hun, you done your best for him. I think he just had something underlying, even the vet couldn't find anything obvious, I know it's hard but try not to feel guilty.
I think it is really responsible to keep doing research  I was told Russians were slightly easier to care for so that's why I have started with them, I don't have others to compare them to but they are meant to be quite hardy.
Add me on Facebook if you ain't gona be around here much (laney davidson) if you want


----------



## sibi (Feb 2, 2013)

Karley, seeing Mike again, reading the posts, seeing what you did for him after he passed tore at my heart and I cried like I had lost one of my own. You discourse back and forth to various members was unbelievable. You was so strong and determined to help Mikey get through this, you need to reflect on what good things you did for him. The proof is on this forum! We all want you to keep posting here even if it's to read about others experiences. You can learn so much from what others do or don't do. Just think about this. Imagine knowing exactly what to do or what to look for when you do get a other tort! You can always email me through here. It was a pleasure knowing about Mike and you.


----------



## karleyreed (Feb 3, 2013)

Thank you laney and sibi! Really does mean a lot, and I'm glad that mike and i have had such an affect on people. At least that means something to me. Funny thing, it was very windy here last night, and the little tea light candle I put out for mike is still burning this morning!! I can't quite believe it! Mike is a huge miss to all of the family, and one day, I hope I can make another tort very happy! I don't have Facebook laney :/ but thanks for asking. I will pop on here from time to time. I like to see updates of how things are going. X


----------



## luvpetz27 (Feb 3, 2013)

Wow! What you did for Mike was just beautiful and amazing! I think you will be a wonderful mom some day......some day  You have a big heart. Hang in there.


----------

