# The Lepracutta storyâ€¦Sullie x Leo



## N2TORTS (Nov 26, 2013)

Years back I met someone who had bred his Leo x Sullieâ€¦..We crossed paths within the tort community , a deal was made and I ended up with two of the babies. It was a fun project and extremely interesting to see the development in the two , as one of them leaned more towards the Sullies genes , while the other more like a Leo. Nevertheless sad to say I no longer own these animals and unfortunately have lost contact with the new owner years back . I thought it might be a interesting thread for folks who have never seen the â€œreal dealâ€ â€¦. â€œLepracuttaâ€ 




































J~:shy:


----------



## wellington (Nov 26, 2013)

Miss seeing pics of them. Thanks for the walk down memory lane with them


----------



## JennBell0725 (Nov 26, 2013)

I know that the crossing is frowned upon, but man id love to have a few


----------



## diamondbp (Nov 26, 2013)

Do you know if it was a P.pardalis or babcocki that fathered them? 

I think it's beyond interesting . I've always been very intrigued by hybrids. If be curious to see wether they end up being fertile or sterile.

Thanks a ton for sharing


----------



## Elohi (Nov 26, 2013)

diamondbp said:


> Do you know if it was a P.pardalis or babcocki that fathered them?
> 
> I think it's beyond interesting . I've always been very intrigued by hybrids. If be curious to see wether they end up being fertile or sterile.
> 
> Thanks a ton for sharing



I was wondering the same thing. Fertile or sterile. Hmmm. 
They are beautiful but I can totally see why crossing would be frowned upon, especially if they end up being fertile. That would be opening up a big ol' worms


----------



## N2TORTS (Nov 27, 2013)

"That would be opening up a big ol' worms".................



I'm curious as to why you would say that? Your own thoughts please not following " what everyone else states" about a pure race....

and ...............

The other end of the spectrum perhaps?......"a smaller more colorful animal with the Dyno personality..."


I have seen for years the " Oh No" ....but not really a defined answer. Sullie's and Leo's are about as common as crab grass...you won't be effecting a "pure" population anytime soon in the wild .


I find the answer to that question as fascinating as the Hybrid itself!


----------



## diamondbp (Nov 27, 2013)

I'm not "against" hybrids, especially in such small numbers, but I can understand why some have concern. I think its beyond fascinating.

I agree that I haven't seen a REALLY convincing arguement as to why hybrids are so frowned apon. The snake community has been doing it for decades and no wild populations have been affected yet(not to my knowledge). But again I can always understand the "wanting to keep things pure" idea as well. I think its a "each to his own" kinda topic.

Do you know if it was a babcocki or pardalis pardalis father? I wonder how old the oldest lepracuttas are currently?


----------



## Saleama (Nov 27, 2013)

Domesticating animals has its advantages. People have been cross breeding and breeding for certain traits for hundreds or thousands of years. I for one, think these are beautiful animals. I don't see how they could possibly polute the gene pool of the wild animals unless someone were to release some into the wilds of Africa. I would love to have one! Now, having said that, will I attempt to breed my Sullys and Leos? Probably not. But it is an interesting concept.


----------



## AnnV (Nov 27, 2013)

Disclaimer: I do understand that human intervention can and often does screw with natural selection and even placement. 

That said, hybrids are a part of natural selection. Since forever, I suspect. 
Look at the Coywolves wreaking havoc in our area of the country and Canada. No Human put them together purposely. 

I would love to see more hybrid torts. I wonder if folks dont share for fear of being slammed.


----------



## gieseygirly (Nov 27, 2013)

Very interesting


----------



## Blakem (Nov 27, 2013)

I believe I've seen you post this before. Very cool. Too bad their is no longer contact.


----------



## compassrose26 (Nov 27, 2013)

Does this ever happen in the wild? It is possible for them to occupy similar areas, right?


----------



## diamondbp (Nov 27, 2013)

I don't think their natural ranges overlap at any point .


----------



## jaizei (Nov 27, 2013)

Personally, I think there is some overlap in the 'natural' ranges, or would have been at some time. However, the map I've seen most often referenced nowadays shows their ranges getting very close (Ethiopia) but not overlapping. I think I've linked it before so I'll see if I can find it.




http://www.tortoiseforum.org/thread-6152-post-50593.html#pid50593


egyptiandan said:


> Leopards aren't found in North African countries and neither are Sulcatas. All African tortoises (except Greeks and Egyptians) are found south of the Sahara.
> Here is a map showing the range of the 2. It's from the Chelonian Library series #1 Leopard and African Spurred Tortoise by Holger Vetter.
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Elohi (Nov 27, 2013)

N2TORTS said:


> "That would be opening up a big ol' worms".................
> 
> 
> 
> ...



N2, let me clarify. By can of worms I mean, in dealings with people. People will be for or against hybrids. And those against would argue that it could create problems with irresponsible interbreeding and loosing the original species traits if the hybrids are bred back into the original lines for more trait tweaking. 
I am however a fence sitter on such an issue in a way because, holy crap...hybrids are often very beautiful animals with interesting traits. And this is obviously how humans have manipulated their livestock, working animals, pets and even our food. So I'm definitely not against it but can "see" or understand those who feel it messes with the integrity of the original species. 
Am I making sense at all? I didn't sleep much last night LOL. 
I mean to bring no negativity at all to this thread, promise  
I can only imagine how awesome these hybrids would be. I mean, I want a sully. I have my little Leo's. A combination of the two would be like the best of both worlds, in ways.
When creating hybrids...when does a hybridized line become it's own new species or sub-species? All this is extremely interesting.


----------



## N2TORTS (Nov 27, 2013)

Ok my two cents â€¦..and this thread was not to start debates about Hybridsâ€¦as we all have our opinion and I wont even discuss that . I just thought some new folks within the last couple of years might enjoy the pics ...
The only thing with maps and specific area details that is very inaccurate is â€œMan himself.â€
True we try understand origins of certain animals and the accuracy of when discovered , but sense the evolution of man, that has changed the ballgame. This has happened all over the world with animals/insects of every species, thus once being discovered â€¦are moved around the world and their endemic range that is incased by natural boundaries , rather it be mountains , rivers or oceans â€¦.mean squat. Man has made those so called boundaries, instrumental freeways and spreading non indigenous animals across the world. A great study on a secluded place would be the Galapagos and the intervention of man. At home we can look at the Honey Beeâ€¦.
However Iâ€™m still stoked when a new species is discovered and amazed that man has not yet ruined or developed on that habitat. Itâ€™s on my buck list â€¦..to one day visit a â€œvirgin jungleâ€ â€¦.

I wanted to thank Jaz for posting the map â€¦and Mr. Dan for the original post. Iâ€™m not a purest nor an extremist when it comes to captive bred animals . Why for the most part 99% of us own these animals for pets and or a hobby




:shy:


----------



## skottip (Nov 27, 2013)

It was a P Pardalis male het for sunset hypo x het albino I believe. 
I have one around 10 inches now I am guessing..
Looking female..


----------



## Leopard (Jun 8, 2014)

Is there any different marking on leopcata? How do you identify it from regular leopard babie?


----------



## DeanS (Jun 8, 2014)

Jeff...was this Bill Corwin? He's the ONLY one I know who does Lepracatas successfully! He's also the guy who owns Aladar now...just curious!


----------



## naturalman91 (Jun 8, 2014)

there's a petstore down the street from me that has a sully indian star cross i don't agree only because the owner pretty much told me he doesn't care if one of the two were to die from crossing but hey if it's possible without hurting either parents or babies sure


----------



## N2TORTS (Jun 9, 2014)

DeanS said:


> Jeff...was this Bill Corwin? He's the ONLY one I know who does Lepracatas successfully! He's also the guy who owns Aladar now...just curious!


 Dean no it was not Bill C.
Someone out in my hood'.....


----------

