# Wanna know what REALLY grinds my gears??



## blafiriravt (Oct 11, 2011)

You know what I am SO sick and tired of reading? "can't take care of my sulcata, need new home"... They are like the fricken pit bull of the tortoise world!!! I just can't stand when people buy animals on a whim with NO research at all. it is one thing to buy it THAN get home and check out TFO or something, but completely different when they have a little sulcata that one day doesn't fit in the 20 gallon aquarium with a exo terra fricken 40W day bulb over it! They wake up on morning like "oh crap, my little baby weighs 200 pounds, can't take care of it anymore". MAN it ticks me off!! That goes for any animal, DO YOUR RESEARCH!!!!!! It takes three seconds to type in "basic, whatever tortoise you are deciding on buying, care" in a search engine. Learn whether or not you have to remodel your master bathroom into an aldabra tortoise enclosure BEFORE you bring him home, not when the sides of his shell start busting through your little homemade enclosure. I wish this thread was at the top of every states craigslist pet post. 

I do not intentionally mean to start things with anybody, as I also realize that sometimes peoples lives can change where they are absolutely no longer able to properly care for the animal in their care. This was a simple rant directed toward the many impulsive not-very-responsible people out there. I also intentionally posted this thread under "debates" because I understand people may have some good arguments, or other things to throw on the wagon, and I figured it was a good place to post. Thank you all for listening. I feel a little better


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## Yvonne G (Oct 11, 2011)

Wow! You've gone from "pictures of fall in Vermont" to ground gears! Are you feeling a little bi-polar this morning? 

The Vermont picture was beautiful!

The tortoise problems gets to me also. I wish people would do their research first, but they usually don't. Almost every sulcata that comes to my rescue comes from a family that knew nothing about them when they got the tortoise. However, it doesn't do much good to rant about it here (except to get it off your chest) because most everyone here is doing or has done research. How do we reach those folks who DON'T belong to a forum? That's the question.


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## blafiriravt (Oct 11, 2011)

emysemys said:


> Wow! You've gone from "pictures of fall in Vermont" to ground gears! Are you feeling a little bi-polar this morning?
> 
> The Vermont picture was beautiful!
> 
> The tortoise problems gets to me also. I wish people would do their research first, but they usually don't. Almost every sulcata that comes to my rescue comes from a family that knew nothing about them when they got the tortoise. However, it doesn't do much good to rant about it here (except to get it off your chest) because most everyone here is doing or has done research. How do we reach those folks who DON'T belong to a forum? That's the question.



LOL, yes a bit bi polar  I knew that everyone here is doing the right thing by being here, but it felt kind of good to get it out to people who actually understand the problem. i wish there was a way to get it out to people. I would put it on Craigslist, but i know it would get flagged, lol. the good people always lose I guess. Thanks for understanding though


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## dmarcus (Oct 11, 2011)

A lot of times the person selling the sulcata doesn't tell the potential owner how big it will get or even how to properly care for it. I knew absolutly nothing about tortoise care when I got my Sulcata and the vender I purchased him from did not provide me with any information and the questions he did answer was not correct as I found out later, so he may have just been the middle man in the sale. But unlike some, I was excited when I found out what kind of tortoise I had and how big he was possibly going to get. 

There was and still are a lot of conflicting information out there and it can get a bit overwelming for a new owner who was told that the care of that little sulcata was going to be easy and then to find out later that you have to spend a few hundred dollars to get the proper equipment to house and feed this new pet. 

Now I am not saying that this is the case for everyone, but I do know that a lot of times people are sold Sulcata's and a 10 gallon reptile setup and are told thats all they need and it's not until they happen upon a forum like this and they discover that they may be in over there heads...


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## bobbymoore (Oct 11, 2011)

WELL SAID


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## babylove6635 (Oct 11, 2011)

totally understand, my neighbors kids seen my rt and they bought two sulcatas and didnt know what they even were. and they only have a red light on them i have tried to tell them what they need and it really bothers me that they are clueless and the y have them on pellets no humidy not even sure if they have a water dish and i give them food for them they are babies. i better go check on them tonight and make sure they have the info they need


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## blafiriravt (Oct 11, 2011)

dalano73 said:


> A lot of times the person selling the sulcata doesn't tell the potential owner how big it will get or even how to properly care for it. I knew absolutly nothing about tortoise care when I got my Sulcata and the vender I purchased him from did not provide me with any information and the questions he did answer was not correct as I found out later, so he may have just been the middle man in the sale. But unlike some, I was excited when I found out what kind of tortoise I had and how big he was possibly going to get.
> 
> There was and still are a lot of conflicting information out there and it can get a bit overwelming for a new owner who was told that the care of that little sulcata was going to be easy and then to find out later that you have to spend a few hundred dollars to get the proper equipment to house and feed this new pet.
> 
> Now I am not saying that this is the case for everyone, but I do know that a lot of times people are sold Sulcata's and a 10 gallon reptile setup and are told thats all they need and it's not until they happen upon a forum like this and they discover that they may be in over there heads...



That's another HUGE issue going on, too. AND the fact that Sulcatas are possibly one of the cheapest species to get a hold of, people think they are a great beginner species that will stay small. This ignorance led with bad vendors, be it pet shop or breeder and mislead lies and information, will eventually turn to a much greater problem.


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## Torty Mom (Oct 11, 2011)

And then you have all the folks who won't do any research and feed their desert tortoise lettuce and no water bowl because he lives in the desert and doesn't need it. Or better yet, keep it in a box because it doesn't do anything and feed it when it scratches on the sides......


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## Tom (Oct 11, 2011)

Brandon, have you ever heard of "Preaching to the choir?"   

I feel your pain man! I have spent the majority of my life trying to educate people on how to take proper care of their animals. I remember being 14 years old at my first pet shop job and having grown adults look at me dumbfounded when I told them that a potentially 12"+ goldfish has no business in a 1 gallon bowl with no filter or nothing... Don't even get me started on the the parrots or reptiles...


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## dbeilfuss (Oct 11, 2011)

I would like to share your soapbox with you please!!!! I totally agree. I am really glad that the Rep Humane Soc I adopted my sulcata from put me through the ringer when I was trying to adopt my Sheldon. Sooooooo GLAD. It forced me to research and really KNOW what I was getting into. And in most cases know what is coming up prior to something actually happening. (Like when I got flashed for the first time-not something you can prepare for no matter how much you research!)

Well said!


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## Angi (Oct 11, 2011)

If you want a rant I got one....Red Eared Sliders. C/L is full of them. People buy the cute little baby and then don't want to clean the tank of a big turtle. I had a friend try to give me the turtle and set up because grandma thought it was a cute gift and didn't ask the parents if it was ok DUMB!!!!!!!!!

The Sulcata thing makes me mad to. I blame the sells too.


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## blafiriravt (Oct 11, 2011)

UGH!!!! CRAIGSLIST!  i cannot EXPLAIN my disgust for some of the ignorant morons that post on that site. Sometimes I wonder if they are even able to take care of themselves, much less another animal!!! 

LOL Tom  Yvonne said the same thing. I know this was kind of the wrong place to set up a rant, but jeez, I couldn't hold it anymore, haha. 

And it goes far beyond space or "cage" requirements. When you buy/adopt/acquire any animal, tortoise or not, you are bound by invisible contract that states that you will provide every single thing that animal needs, at all times, no matter what. You need to be financially responsible, but also physically aware. Lights, temps, water, food. Birds and dogs need TONS of training, handling, affection and exercise. If you are buying fish you need to make up your damn mind on what type of damn tank it'll be. I wanna slap people in the face when I walk in their house and see these super beautiful angels and schools of tetras chilling with a GOLDFISH!! WTH?? And the turtle thing. "im just gonna throw this 10 inch slider in a 20 gallon Zilla starter with a black light for his basking spot." No basking dock, no weeds or grasses to hide in. Just a huge turtle in a small tank wth nothing to do but swim. Can't even rest his poor little legs and take a load off. Stupid people.


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## cherylim (Oct 11, 2011)

I have to agree, and I do admit that it annoys me when people use the excuse "I got the wrong information from the person I bought it from", too.

The idea that people only research in one location before buying a pet shocks me. Even more so if they just walk into a shop, say "How do I care for this tortoise?" and then walk out with one in a box.

I wouldn't even buy a pair of headphones without researching them in multiple places, never mind a live animal.

Like you, I don't mind if people have unexpected circumstance changes and simply can't cope, but getting into something without knowing what you're doing is a different matter completely.


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## dmarcus (Oct 11, 2011)

I feel you on this, my 3+ year old rescue sulcata was kept in an aquarium for 3 years and wasn't put outside or feed the proper diet. She fits in my hand and has very bad pyramiding and MBD. No matter what information is out there, this problem will continue...

Everyone has to also remember that not everyone owns a computer, so they can't surf the net for answers. My mom just started using a computer 2 years ago and she still struggles with it..


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## CtTortoiseMom (Oct 11, 2011)

I totally agree. It makes me sad because I could not even imagine having to re-home any of my tortoises. The fact that is is so easy to just let these beautiful creatures go is what upset's me the most!


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## surfthesecond (Oct 11, 2011)

Sad they are hard to get a good home.


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## Jacqui (Oct 11, 2011)

cherylim said:


> The idea that people only research in one location before buying a pet shocks me. Even more so if they just walk into a shop, say "How do I care for this tortoise?" and then walk out with one in a box.
> 
> I wouldn't even buy a pair of headphones without researching them in multiple places, never mind a live animal.



I need to start playing Devil's advocate at some point, so I am going to start by using your comments, okay? Nothing personal. 

I think folks think the folks at Pet stores or Vets offices know what they are talking about, which sadly we know that's not true. The general public however does not realize this.

If I were going to buy a headphone, I would go to the local WalMart and just buy the cheapest one. No researching it for me, let alone checking out more then one place.  A) I just don't care that much about something not too expensive that I consider replaceable. (Which is sadly how many think of their critters). B) I am just not the researching type.





dalano73 said:


> Everyone has to also remember that not everyone owns a computer, so they can't surf the net for answers. My mom just started using a computer 2 years ago and she still struggles with it..



So glad somebody else realizes this. Many folks out there don't own a computer, much less are they comfortable enough to roam around looking for sites and information. I myself may use the computer a lot for tortoise and turtle related things, but honestly I often forget I can use it for other things in life.  Using a computer is just not natural for me.





Tom said:


> Brandon, have you ever heard of "Preaching to the choir?"



If any of use ever really want to do more then just complain, there are lots of small things you can do. You may only change the life of one tortoise or turtle, but sometimes that is enough and it is a start.

Join forums and become an advocate for proper tortoise and turtle care. Learn all you can and spread all that information every where you go. For example many of the reptile forums, have no knowledgeable tortoise/turtle keepers on them to give the right information out.

Go public. Join local animal groups and get out there and promote the tortoises/turtles and their care. Give talks at local schools, youth groups, and any event or place where animal lovers will attend. Go to reptile shows and stand near the vendor of tortoises and see if they are giving correct information, if not you be brave and cut in with comments. Have printed information sheets to hand out with care, your personal contact information, and addresses for sites like this one.

Leave flyers with the offer to help any tortoise/turtle owner with their animals on pet store. vet offices, feed stores, any animal type location who has a board for posting things. Post the same thing in Craig list type places.

What I am saying is sure you feel better clearing your chest in here, but if you really want to feel good about yourself and help the animals become involved. Speak up for these animals.


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## The Adjustor (Oct 11, 2011)

It totally bothers me when I see those too. Do some freakin research. You should know if you are able to provide a permanent home for a reptile before you go out and get it.

My local craigslist usually has a few sullys to be rehomed, but it is utterly littered with people trying to get rid of their red tail boas. Usually around the time they hit 4 or 5 feet and the owner realizes they're gonna need a custom built cage soon.


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## Jacqui (Oct 11, 2011)

Forgot to add a few of my own thoughts...

A lot of people can be told something will get 100 lbs or 12" or whatever measuring device and size you want to use, but we can not fully visualize it. We tend not to be able to mentally "see" what for instance that 12" is like. We don't even consider for a moment, when looking at a hatchling how much manure and urine an adult can put out. Feeding a little leaf of lettuce is such an ahhh moment, but we failed to think what it will be like to pay for the food bill on an adult.

About three years ago I guess it is now, I went to adopt from Dee in NJ two of her male sulcata. They were only teenagers, so what only 25-30 lbs or so.. Now I had read and yearned for a sulcata for years, barely escaping each time at a show when I saw a cute hatchling. I had saw adult sulcata before many times. So I should have been prepared right? I wasn't. When I saw the two boyz, I think I went into shock. The reality of what I was doing firmly struck me in the face. To be honest, I had momentary doubts as to what the heck I was getting into.  

It is just so hard to look into the face of one of those sweet innocent little cute sulcata faces and fully understand what it will be like in a few short years.

We tend to think, "Oh it's okay, it's small now and by the time it gets bigger I will... (fill in this part with have a bigger enclosure built, have my own place, have moved to a bigger backyard, ect). Truth is life is a constant change and the future we envision for ourselves, most often never happens like we think and certainly not as quickly as we think it will. 

For some who can visualize their adult size, we have the mentality of when it gets big.... I will just donate it to the local zoo or ...I will sell it for big money on Kingsnake and other places because look at how others are doing that right now... or I will just find somebody who is wanting one of these guys to adopt... or I will take it out to the desert/woods/park/country and just let it go free to live out the rest of it's life as a free wild animal.


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## bobbymoore (Oct 11, 2011)

i was at a reptile expo here in canada and theres a place called little RES Q and they had this turtle there and it has been kept in a 5L pail its whole life heres a pic and the one with the zip tie around it is horrable also a pic


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## The Adjustor (Oct 11, 2011)

bobbymoore said:


> i was at a reptile expo here in canada and theres a place called little RES Q and they had this turtle there and it has been kept in a 5L pail its whole life heres a pic and the one with the zip tie around it is horrable also a pic



Good Lord! That is aweful! Poor little turtles


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## AnthonyC (Oct 11, 2011)

Holy Crap! That is SO incredibly sad!


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## Yvonne G (Oct 11, 2011)

I hope that after the picture they clipped off that zip tie. And what a huge RES!!! If it were normal, can you imagine how LARGE it would be?


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## Jacqui (Oct 11, 2011)

bobbymoore said:


> i was at a reptile expo here in canada and theres a place called little RES Q and they had this turtle there and it has been kept in a 5L pail its whole life heres a pic and the one with the zip tie around it is horrable also a pic



Those are horrible images, but they work very well at making a point and keeping it in your mind for a long long time.

Ever wonder how human can be a part of humane?


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## The Adjustor (Oct 11, 2011)

Jacqui said:


> Ever wonder how human can be a part of humane?



I often wonder where that term came from... Humans are (as far as I am aware) the only creatures on Earth that are intentionally _inhumane_ towards each other and other animals.


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## byerssusan (Oct 11, 2011)

I did research before I got my little Sulcata..A little.But I already knew she was going to be in our family for many years to come. .I guess I was lucky because I did buy her from Craigs list and the owner told me everything he could about them before I bought one. Even showed me his set up for the huge ones he had in his back yard. I know what your saying about people buying animals of any kind before they research them and know exactly what they are getting in to. So many ignorant people out there. So many animals end up getting mistreated.Some intentionally and so many not intentionally.


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## Maggie Cummings (Oct 11, 2011)

I had my sister's experience to go on. She taught me about turtles and tortoises before I ever got any. Then before I knew it I had 50 or so! Can you imagine? I lived in a mobile home with a 2 pet limit and a very small yard with little grass. I had 2 huge 300 gallons or so of tubs on my deck full of water turtles. But she saw it happening and helped me adopt some out. Then she brought me a 5 year old Sulcata and said she didn't have room for it right now and would I keep it for a couple of weeks...that was 8 years ago. It was a serious education to me on raising a Sulcata. I really didn't have room enough for him so I adopted out a couple more animals and made more room for Bob. I set him up in the small yard and kept him in the house at night. He was 8 years old and 35 pounds when I moved to Oregon. I brought over 200 cinder blocks with me when I moved and they separated the now big yard into thirds. For Bob. I can't tell you how important he is to me, and the things I do to keep him that I shouldn't.
But what I wanted to say is even tho I was educated about them I still was not prepared for the cost of his care. $900 to redo a shed so it was insulated and warm. Safe for him now the walls are made of plywood. His fence cost $800, then $200 more after it became apparent that he could climb stairs and escape...what I am trying to say is even if you know how to care for them you are just not prepared for the cost of doing it.

My bi*ch is the people who have a tortoise or turtle that gets sick and they either can't afford to pay for it's Vet care or they just won't and they turn it into the local rescue. I became a rescue when I moved to Oregon. I had seen it before with my sister but now people were giving ME sick tortoises and I had to pay for their care with MY Social Security check. I now have a large Vet bill that I am having a hard time paying and have to refuse to take anymore animals. And that breaks my heart. I know when I tell someone that I can't or won't take their sick tortoise that the tort is going to die. But I can't pay for it anymore. I saw my sister do it for years, and she still does it. So rather than the Sulcata people who don't do any research, for me it's the people who get a tortoise without any money put aside in case they have to go to the vet. We see that all the time here on TFO, teenagers who get that cute Sulcata and it always gets sick because the parents won't buy the necessary equipment. No UVB etc. So now we have a sick baby with some teenager asking for our help. Then the animal dies and THEY GET ANOTHER ONE! Holy sh*t. It makes me crazy. Turtles and tortoises are throw away animals. Most people don't take them to the vet, they give them to me or somebody like me, and *I* take them to the Vet using my SS money, and *I* am the one who cries over them when they die. And most people wait until the animal is really sick with little chance of recovery. My back yard is full of small graves. Well, I was in a good mood until I started this...I'm outa here....


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## Edna (Oct 11, 2011)

Well, Brandon, I'm giving myself a GOLD STAR because when I first decided to get a tortoise I really wanted a sulcata. I was atracted by the eventual size, the personality and the cute little baby faces. I tried projecting myself and my tortoise into the future, and it occurred to me that when my tort reached that massive size I wouldn't be able to pick it up even in my current condition, much less when I am older. So I went with a Hermanns instead. Cute little face, plenty of personality, and a much smaller maximum size

People who get puppies, keep them to 6 months, then dump them at a shelter and go get another puppy really irk me. A friend of mine got a beautiful border collie/St. Bernard puppy for free and took him home to her 3 boys. When the pup hit 120 pounds after having been allowed to do whatever he wanted with those 3 boys, they gave him up to a very nice herding dog rescue and replaced him with a lab puppy. So now the poor big guy is wondering what happened, trying to learn some manners..... just all very sad


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## Tiger Cowboy (Oct 11, 2011)

Jacqui said:


> Forgot to add a few of my own thoughts...
> 
> A lot of people can be told something will get 100 lbs or 12" or whatever measuring device and size you want to use, but we can not fully visualize it. We tend not to be able to mentally "see" what for instance that 12" is like. We don't even consider for a moment, when looking at a hatchling how much manure and urine an adult can put out. Feeding a little leaf of lettuce is such an ahhh moment, but we failed to think what it will be like to pay for the food bill on an adult.


This +1. Even worse with iguanas, retics, burms, and the large monitors. They are cheap and easy to acquire and nobody ever seems to mention that they grow up to be big and can grow up with a heck of an attitude.


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## byerssusan (Oct 11, 2011)

bobbymoore said:


> i was at a reptile expo here in canada and theres a place called little RES Q and they had this turtle there and it has been kept in a 5L pail its whole life heres a pic and the one with the zip tie around it is horrable also a pic



Wow..I am just sitting here shaking my head. How could anyone do this ?


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## bobbymoore (Oct 11, 2011)

byerssusan some people are just....well you know


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## byerssusan (Oct 12, 2011)

Agree with Tom 100% It's like when I read the first post..It made me want to make signs , hold a protest haha.. Do something ..I know it makes one feel better getting things off their chest. I do the same thing..we all do.. But putting action behind our words is the most powerful thing we can do. It might not save all. But if one is saved it's better than none.


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## Angi (Oct 12, 2011)

I am upset now thinking about Maggie and Yvonne spending their SS $s to save neglected torts. Do you get donations or grants. I am really sad now. First I had the picture in my head of the poor RES now I am picturing elderly women eatting Top Ramen. I need to find a happy thread.....


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## byerssusan (Oct 12, 2011)

Angi said:


> I am upset now thinking about Maggie and Yvonne spending their SS $s to save neglected torts. Do you get donations or grants. I am really sad now. First I had the picture in my head of the poor RES now I am picturing elderly women eatting Top Ramen. I need to find a happy thread.....



Hmm why be upset over them spending their money to save neglected torts? The way I see it is everyone here is here for a reason..we may never know what that reason is. But we do serve a purpose. If everything happens for a reason as I believe... then what they are doing is in their lifes path. They are meant to do this. I don't like seeing anyone nor anything suffer because of any reason but this is a self chosen reason. I commend them on their efforts. Though I do disagree about having to make sure you have to have money put back in case of vet bills when buy your tort. That was the last thing on my mind when buying mine. As far as so much money being spent on wood and the like to build enclosures..There are people who give these items away..Heck we were given a gazebo for free on craigslist.And Many more items. If there is a will there is always a way. And if you want to take on such a journey then do what needs to be done however you have to do it. Apparently if you do take it on ..you want to do it. So why complain? I don't know..just some thoughts from my rambling brain ..


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## blafiriravt (Oct 12, 2011)

Everyone here is so cool. It is so awesome to finally be on the same page with people who think/act/fell the same ways I do. I would love more than anything to promote the proper care of turts and torts. I would like to promote the proper care of any animal. It seems like people are so gung ho to help out and put out signs and every other thing, but I feel like my voice is lost in the riptide. I can scream until my vocal cords start bleeding, but it seems like everyone turns the other way and does whatever the hell they want anyway. How many years have we been fighting the breed ban legislation in different states and countries on certain dog breeds? It seems the more you fight, the harder it gets, and the more people don't listen. Here's a little story: I'm a vegetarian. I chose to make that life choice by myself because of the way "food" animals are mostly inhumanely treated. What I DON"T agree with is idiot groups like PETA who are so intensely bias about the subject that they shove this crap down other people's throats, make them super mad, and as an end result end up making the fight worse. Instead of making a few little social groups to get the word out, and help people get on the right track, there always has to be some moron who stands up and takes WAY further than it ever had to go. I wish there was a way for people to WANT to provide the RIGHT care for ANY animal. Like a license they had to apply for before obtaining the animal. Humans are just a moron species as it is. The more things that are governed, the more we feel the need to do horrible things. Unfortunately, I don't think things will change anytime soon. And history had proven that. King JR, Gandhi, the list can go on and on and on. What did it end up with? I'm sorry my fellow tort/turt/any animal lovers, I think we are making a small step toward our goal, but it appears like a monstrous hurricane is sweeping us away, and our voices are slowly being drowned out by modern-day-lazy-person-not-give-a-big-damn-about-anything-but-myself type of people. And there is no National Guard to save OUR hides.


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## Angi (Oct 13, 2011)

When I say upset or sad I am not judging or mad. I know these ladies are caring people that give so much to their pets and others that need help.They even give their time to advise others, like me. I am glad people like them exist. It does make me feel bad that Maggie is in dept (I think that is what she said) over vet bills. But I am sure her life is fuller than many, because of the love she has for her pets. I think what she was complaining about was other people not taking care of their pets or their pets bills and her spending money because she doesn't want to see them sufer. I don't believe that everything is meant to be. That is just my thoughts. Sorry for going O/T, but while I am O/T I agree with you Brandon about your thoughts on being a vegitarian ( even though I am not one) another thing to think about is how unhealthy the meat is because of the treatment of the animals and the drugs used on them.


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## byerssusan (Oct 13, 2011)

she was complaining about was other people not taking care of their pets or their pets bills and her spending money because she doesn't want to see them sufer. I don't believe that everything is meant to be. That is just my thoughts.

Yeah I see what your saying. I just don't understand why someone would complain about it ..if they are doing it..It means they want to do it. She doesn't have too. But does it for the love of a wonderful creature. I do believe everything happens for a reason. even the bad things ..There are lessons for each and every one of us.But, this is getting on another subject *S*..Everyone has the right to believe as they will. Any ole way..


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