# Enclosures and predators



## Rasheed (Sep 11, 2007)

I have a russian tortoise and I am planning to build an outdoor enclosure for her in my backyard. After I complete it, I am wondering if I need to worry about predators. My yard is fenced, however, we have raccoons, hawks, cats, and even unverified reports of eagles in the area. Should I be concerned? And would leaving her out overnight be a bad idea?


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## Jacqui (Sep 11, 2007)

Leaving her outside overnight is a great thing...if she can be safe. Yes you should worry. Coons especially love torts. They are also pretty clever at getting into pens. Cats are normally nothing that will harm a Russian. Most common bad thing about a cat, is they often use the pen as a big litter box.

BTW welcome to the forum!


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## T-P (Sep 12, 2007)

Well, i would never leave my tortoises outdoors.
But if you do make sure the enclosure is:
Predator proof
Escape Proof
And Lock Proof.
nothing gets in nothings gets out


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## Vegas Chad (Sep 12, 2007)

Dont forget to cover the top with some sort of mesh...


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## Iluvemturts (Sep 12, 2007)

Hi Rasheed Welcome to the site...yes be worried about coons and eagles cuz they will get your tort. I worry about 2 legged preditors...humans too.


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## Crazy1 (Sep 13, 2007)

Welcome Rasheed,
I leave my Greeks out from spring to winter and I have predater proofed their encloser. I built them a 8x8 foot encloser with fenced sides and a chicken wire top. I too have reports of eagles, owls, coons, possoms and cats not to mention a few two leged pedaters. I have used those springloaded locking things you put your keys on. and heavey pinch clips and the door does have a lock. Maybe overkill but I feel they are safe. Good luck.


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## Rasheed (Sep 13, 2007)

Thanks everyone, I think I have a good idea of how I need to approach putting the enclosure together now.


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## Jacqui (Sep 13, 2007)

Crazy1 said:


> Maybe overkill but I feel they are safe. Good luck.



Some days it seems like there is no such thing as overkill when it comes to protecting the torts.


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## Jacqui (Sep 13, 2007)

Rasheed said:


> Thanks everyone, I think I have a good idea of how I need to approach putting the enclosure together now.




You welcome. Be sure to post back and let us know how you built your pen...pictures are always loved.


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## halfnelson (Sep 13, 2007)

Rasheed said:


> I have a russian tortoise and I am planning to build an outdoor enclosure for her in my backyard. After I complete it, I am wondering if I need to worry about predators. My yard is fenced, however, we have raccoons, hawks, cats, and even unverified reports of eagles in the area. Should I be concerned? And would leaving her out overnight be a bad idea?


I would recommend sidewalls of cement block or 2X6 lumber and a lid of chain link bolted to 2X6s that can be padlocked shut. A strand of electified barbed wire around the enclosure would be ideal, but then, I'm dealing with bears.


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## Josh (Sep 13, 2007)

electrified barbed wire?!
i love bears, but jesus.....


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## halfnelson (Sep 13, 2007)

I've grown to hate the bears. They've allowed them to over populate the area and now dogs aren't even safe, much less turtles.

Electric barbed wire is an excellent human deterrent as well...


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## Josh (Sep 13, 2007)

where do you live?


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## Jacqui (Sep 14, 2007)

Actually the electrified part is a pretty good line of defense for dogs, coons and other more common pests too. Had been thinking about it for my chicken pen. So far that's the only place the coons have hit. Key part with coons, is the "so far".

Just glad I don't have to deal with bears...or lions and tigers oh my!


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## halfnelson (Sep 14, 2007)

I'm in Anchorage Alaska. We don't have racoons or skunks but I think the electric wire would work on them as well. If I build an outdoor enclosure I wouldn't leave my turts out at night and so would not make it so bear proof. I would only take them out if I was going to be there. Moose will try to lay down in any water they can find and I don't want my turts squished. Eagles might take them too so the pen will have a wire lid of some kind but it would have to be stronger than chickenwire.
I am currently building new indoor enclosures and followed links to here looking for ideas. I don't actually have tortoises, just box turtles but I hope you don't mind me lurking on the enclosure thread?


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## Josh (Sep 14, 2007)

any and all tortoise and turtles lovers are welcome here!


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## Vegas Chad (Sep 14, 2007)

halfnelson said:


> I'm in Anchorage Alaska. We don't have racoons or skunks but I think the electric wire would work on them as well. If I build an outdoor enclosure I wouldn't leave my turts out at night and so would not make it so bear proof. I would only take them out if I was going to be there. Moose will try to lay down in any water they can find and I don't want my turts squished. Eagles might take them too so the pen will have a wire lid of some kind but it would have to be stronger than chickenwire.
> I am currently building new indoor enclosures and followed links to here looking for ideas. I don't actually have tortoises, just box turtles but I hope you don't mind me lurking on the enclosure thread?



Sheesh... I am lucky here in Vegas, I have a back yard which I dont have to really worry about anything, ~maybe~ a big bird?. id crap a cobb if I came home to find a moose sleeping on a tort, an eagle swoop'n in and hauling one away or a bear having a tort lunch... Always have wanted to come to Alaska and fish, perhaps a bit of hunting. The weather will be a real challange for keeping torts outside.


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## Jacqui (Sep 14, 2007)

You don't qualify as a lurker any how, because you have come out of the dark shadows and into the light of posting.

I think you could give us some wonderful comments and thoughts on how it is to have turtles/torts in Alaska. Like even thinking about bears and moose would never have crossed my mind...not many of them here in Nebraska.

Lurkers are not bad, they may not share with us, but they take information from the posts of others which may make them better turtle/tort keepers. Isn't that the main goal after all? Improving the lives of these fascinating shelled wonders we share our world with? Lurk all ya want.:shy:


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## halfnelson (Sep 14, 2007)

Outside enclosures for any tortoise would be a challange here. First snow is early October and breakup is April/May. You definitely couldn't let them hibernate outside. Even in summer you would need extra heat, our soil temp is pretty low. The interior has hotter summers so it would be slightly different there but still too cold for too long. A climate controlled greenhouse would rock but you would still have to either bring them in for at least 4 months in the winter or spend a fortune heating the greenhouse.


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## halfnelson (Sep 14, 2007)

Jacqui said:


> Actually the electrified part is a pretty good line of defense for dogs, coons and other more common pests too. Had been thinking about it for my chicken pen. So far that's the only place the coons have hit. Key part with coons, is the "so far".
> 
> Just glad I don't have to deal with bears...or lions and tigers oh my!


A strand of electric wire 3 inches above the ground around the pen and another strand 3 inches above the top of the fence will stop most predators, if the fence is at least 5 feet tall that is, and the wire has to be barbed wire to stop bear. That setup will stop dogs from digging under the fence or jumping over. I'm thinking it would stop racoons too.


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## Jacqui (Sep 14, 2007)

halfnelson said:


> Outside enclosures for any tortoise would be a challange here. First snow is early October and breakup is April/May. You definitely couldn't let them hibernate outside. Even in summer you would need extra heat, our soil temp is pretty low. The interior has hotter summers so it would be slightly different there but still too cold for too long. A climate controlled greenhouse would rock but you would still have to either bring them in for at least 4 months in the winter or spend a fortune heating the greenhouse.



So you pretty much have house tortoises? With vary limited time outside in natural sunlight correct? Doesn't sound like a lot of fun. I myself dislike when the winter comes. I like it a lot better when as many as possible can be outside.

I live in an old house (well over 100 yrs), so electrical outlets were a premium...not to mention you had to be careful if too many lights and/or heaters would go on at the same time. Just finally last year got lots and lots of new outlets. For example my dining room went from four plugs to now 24 of them...and on more fuses so no popping of the fuses any more.

Must mean you have to really love reptiles to have them up there.

How is it with finding greens and stuff? Just thinking there would go a lot of the free supply of weeds, grasses, and blooms from my yard.


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## Rees2 (Sep 14, 2007)

Jacqui said:


> Cats are normally nothing that will harm a Russian.


I desagree with you there I have seen videos on Youtube of tortoises getting thrashed by cats.Oh and my cat also tried to kill my tortoises luckly I was able to to get my cat away before she harmed Humpfree.


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## Jacqui (Sep 15, 2007)

I have seen those too. I have also saw the ones where the torts go after the cats as well.

Normally however cats only swat and play with a tort. They don't normally chew on them nor eat them. That is what I meant by harm. Most commonly the cats would rather curl up with them.

But your right Rees, there is always a chance a cat could harm your tort. That's one reason I put the "normally" into my statement.

Hatchlings would be another story, but common sense would say no hatchling should be out without lots of protection. They are so small and soft, they are a food source for everything.

My advice is that anybody who has a tort outside, should take every measure to protect them. You need to be proactive and plan in advance for problems. Just because you never see coons or whatever, doesn't mean they aren't there. They normally don't leave warning messages. They just come in and swooped down upon your shelled ones and will kill everyone they can find. Once they know you have good "taste like chicken" torts raised on prime greens, they will do everything in their clever persistent power to get to the rest. Same basic story with all the other predators.

You are also hearing more and more of the human predators coming after torts. This is going to be happening more and more, especially as the value of torts go up. This animal is much harder to protect against.



While I am thinking coons...
Warning, just because you have your torts inside your home, will not stop a coon. If you leave doors open or have a petdoor, coons will come into your home and go after your torts. Several stories this year of that happening. Just another thing to keep in mind.


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## halfnelson (Sep 15, 2007)

Jacqui said:


> halfnelson said:
> 
> 
> > Outside enclosures for any tortoise would be a challange here. First snow is early October and breakup is April/May. You definitely couldn't let them hibernate outside. Even in summer you would need extra heat, our soil temp is pretty low. The interior has hotter summers so it would be slightly different there but still too cold for too long. A climate controlled greenhouse would rock but you would still have to either bring them in for at least 4 months in the winter or spend a fortune heating the greenhouse.
> ...


From May to early Sept. you could take them outside in the yard to graze if the weather is nice. I only have box turtles but if I had a tort that needed to graze I would probably go for one of the barley grass sprouting systems that are popular with horse owners. Have you seen those? Most people up here use an old refridgerator w/racks inside to hold 5 or 6 large plastic trays. You don't plug in the fridge, it's just to hold the trays. In each tray you pour a cup full of barley, and you have to set up some kind of watering system. You like start one tray a week and grow the barley until it's 3 or 4 inches tall. Horse owners then pull out the mat of barley sprouts and feed it to the horses. For torts you could just set the whole tray in their enclosure. Wheat grass and other seeds could be mixed w/the barley to creat a custom feed.


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## Jacqui (Sep 15, 2007)

No I had not heard of the frig and the barley. Dang would hate to keep up with my three horses that way. Think tho I might look into that next summer. We have a couple of old refrigerator bought to hibernate turtles in years ago just sitting around. Might make a nice treat for my ancient mare, when she can't get out to graze.

I love the information and just simply the knowledge gained from sites like this. May not have a lot to do with torts, but sure can apply to everyday life or just make you stop and think about the different environments we each live in.


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## halfnelson (Sep 15, 2007)

Jacqui said:


> No I had not heard of the frig and the barley. Dang would hate to keep up with my three horses that way. Think tho I might look into that next summer. We have a couple of old refrigerator bought to hibernate turtles in years ago just sitting around. Might make a nice treat for my ancient mare, when she can't get out to graze.
> 
> I love the information and just simply the knowledge gained from sites like this. May not have a lot to do with torts, but sure can apply to everyday life or just make you stop and think about the different environments we each live in.


It's supposed to be very cost effective. Instead of feeding, say, one pound of barley grain you sprout it and wind up with 4 pounds of sprouts. For small torts you could just do sprouts in a jar in your kitchen.


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## shay_ (Sep 20, 2007)

i live where we have lots of racoons. they love torts/turtles.
racoons are very clever so if you do keep ur tort outside bring him/her in at night ,cuz racoons are stubborn animals and will try anything to have an easy meal ... better to be safe than sorry


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## halfnelson (Sep 23, 2007)

I'm making slow progress on my new turtle home, mostly because I'm a bad carpenter and am learning as I go. It will be three 2 ft X 6 ft plywood terrariums w/drop down plexiglass fronts, stacked sort of like bunk beds. I added a 1X4 strip on the front so they are not looking straight out through the plexiglass. The bottom one will be on sliders on the floor, the second one will be on a shelf 2 ft above the floor and the third one will be on a shelf 4 feet above the floor. Each will have a humidity box, water tray, basking area and the top 2 holding females will have 6 inch deep pans of soil set in holes in the floors for egg laying. The rack with the shelves is made from 2x3s and can be taken apart so it's easier to move. I'm adding handles to both ends of the plywood boxes because moving the old turtle table was a pain, there was nothing to grab onto. Thoughts?


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## Rees2 (Sep 25, 2007)

If it was labbled killer tortoise the tortoise had a reason it was deffending its nest.


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## halfnelson (Sep 25, 2007)

???? Huh?


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