# Eggs and Hatching - A Question for Breeders



## Nephelle (Oct 14, 2015)

Hey everyone!

So I have a curiosity question for breeders. As a disclaimer, this is just a me wondering sort of thing, as I have no intention of breeding. It was just a question that crossed my mind, so I thought I would ask!

I have seen many threads on people finding eggs, hatching eggs and incubators, and surprise hatchings found in outdoor enclosures. I've seen threads with one or two eggs hatching to over 20 box turtle babies! 

So, I'm wondering--do you always hatch out the eggs you find?


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## ALDABRAMAN (Oct 17, 2015)

Nephelle said:


> I'm wondering--do you always hatch out the eggs you find?



~ If your question is are all eggs fertile, no!


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## Tom (Oct 17, 2015)

I incubate all the eggs I find, but I don't usually hatch them all. Some just aren't fertile.

Captive breeding gives people the animals they want without having to remove as many from the wild. It also gives us animals that are a lot less likely to be carrying diseases and parasites, than their wild caught brethren, and since they are captive hatched, they are already used to captive housing, handling and foods.

I hope that in the future, when you are ready, you might reconsider whether or not you want to breed. I feel this is especially important with russians because of their low reproductive rate and because so many are still collected from the wild.


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## Carol S (Oct 17, 2015)

I always hatch the eggs I find. In the Spring. I am always spying on my adult females to see if they are digging a nest. I hatched out 28 Russian hatchlings this year.  I had around 16 eggs that were not fertile. 12 of them were from one female (Mean Girl). I do not know why none of her eggs were fertile this year. Last year almost all of her eggs hatched.


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## Nephelle (Oct 17, 2015)

You guys are awesome, thank you for answering this question!

I hadn't thought about the infertility rate, that would change a lot about needing/wanting to give them all a chance. I saw a post about the 25+ box turtle babies and it blew my mind haha. After reading some of the other posts, like @Jodie 's brand new baby, I can see how it's not as easy as it sounds and just because you have eggs doesn't mean you will have babies.

@Tom - I won't say I haven't thought about it, however that is probably a long way off  I have watched the videos and signed petitions for the WC Russian problem and you are so right that it needs to be shut down with healthy, CB babies. My partner and I are on a fast track to buying a house in the next year or so, so the timing of all this is actually pretty fun for possible future planning--I probably would never have factored tortoise-keeping into my must-haves for a property, but that is quickly changing haha!

@Carol S - "Mean Girl" LOL hahahaha. No explanation needed there, right?! 28 babies!! That's soo many! Do you find it's easy to let them go to homes after you've hatched them out? I have a hard time giving my friends the baby plants I've grown from seed because I know they won't take care of them like I do LOL. Do you have a large piece of property where you keep them?


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## Tom (Oct 17, 2015)

I just want to add to this discussion that I've met Carol and her husband and they are both fantastic people. I could hang out with either of them all day and have great conversation and leave with a smile.


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## Nephelle (Oct 17, 2015)

Well, now I want to meet Carol and her husband! 

Come to Pittsburgh, Carol!! And feel free to bring along any of those 28 babies, too! 

haha!


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## Yvonne G (Oct 17, 2015)

I incubate all turtle or tortoise eggs I find. Not all hatch, but I try.


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## WithLisa (Oct 18, 2015)

At least in the German-speaking part of Europe hatchlings of testudo species don't sell well, the prices are going down every year. There are already way too many hobby breeders.


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## Tom (Oct 18, 2015)

WithLisa said:


> At least in the German-speaking part of Europe hatchlings of testudo species don't sell well, the prices are going down every year. There are already way too many hobby breeders.



We have heard that from other European members too. Just the opposite over here. We are still importing them by the thousands. These imports are very cheap and many people still don't understand or appreciate why CB is so much better for what they want. Its getting better year by year though.


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## Gillian M (Oct 18, 2015)

WithLisa said:


> At least in the German-speaking part of Europe hatchlings of testudo species don't sell well, the prices are going down every year. There are already way too many hobby breeders.


Hello. No demand on them? I wonder why. Do you have an explanation? If so, I'd appreciate an answer, thank you.


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## WithLisa (Oct 18, 2015)

Gillian Moore said:


> Hello. No demand on them? I wonder why. Do you have an explanation? If so, I'd appreciate an answer, thank you.


Supply overtakes demand. They are very popular pets, but it's very common to have groups and almost every keeper wants to have hatchlings at least once and/or has surprise hatchlings from time to time. 
Tortoises are not like hamsters, they can outlive their owners and sooner or later everyone who wants a tortoise already has one.


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## Gillian M (Oct 18, 2015)

WithLisa said:


> Supply overtakes demand. They are very popular pets, but it's very common to have groups and almost every keeper wants to have hatchlings at least once and/or has surprise hatchlings from time to time.
> Tortoises are not like hamsters, they can outlive their owners and sooner or later everyone who wants a tortoise already has one.


Thanks your reply as well as your explanation.

What of the *extremely *cold weather in Austria and Germany? Wouldn't that too, have effect on demand?


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## WithLisa (Oct 18, 2015)

Gillian Moore said:


> Thanks your reply as well as your explanation.
> 
> What of the *extremely *cold weather in Austria and Germany? Wouldn't that too, have effect on demand?



Not really. Hibernation is totally normal here, for adults as well as hatchlings, in Austria it's even required by law. Usually tortoises are hibernated in either a fridge, a cold frame or in the cellar. But even if they are left outside (that's NOT recommended, but it can happen for example when they've escaped or burrowed in the enclosure and the owner can't find them anymore) they have a very good chance of survival.


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## Gillian M (Oct 18, 2015)

WithLisa said:


> Not really. Hibernation is totally normal here, for adults as well as hatchlings, in Austria it's even required by law. Usually tortoises are hibernated in either a fridge, a cold frame or in the cellar. But even if they are left outside (that's NOT recommended, but it can happen for example when they've escaped or burrowed in the enclosure and the owner can't find them anymore) they have a very good chance of survival.


Very interesting. Thanks a lot your answer, appreciate it.


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## Tom (Oct 18, 2015)

WithLisa said:


> Supply overtakes demand. They are very popular pets, but it's very common to have groups and almost every keeper wants to have hatchlings at least once and/or has surprise hatchlings from time to time.
> Tortoises are not like hamsters, they can outlive their owners and sooner or later everyone who wants a tortoise already has one.



Its too bad that our governments make it so difficult to ship CB animals internationally. The demand over here far outstrips the supply. Your European overstock could find some really nice homes over here in some areas with pretty nice tortoise weather climates.


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## Nephelle (Oct 18, 2015)

Tom said:


> Its too bad that our governments make it so difficult to ship CB animals internationally. The demand over here far outstrips the supply. Your European overstock could find some really nice homes over here in some areas with pretty nice tortoise weather climates.



That's an interesting point.

I have read quite a few articles and petitions, etc, on the WC problem, but in none of them was a solution proposed. 

How do companies like Petco and the like manage to get around the import laws to bring WC tortoises in? Or is it not the US laws that would be the block in this line of thinking?


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## Tom (Oct 18, 2015)

Nephelle said:


> That's an interesting point.
> 
> I have read quite a few articles and petitions, etc, on the WC problem, but in none of them was a solution proposed.
> 
> How do companies like Petco and the like manage to get around the import laws to bring WC tortoises in? Or is it not the US laws that would be the block in this line of thinking?



There are importers that know the laws and know how to do this legally. They bring them in and pet shops buy them for re-sale.

To be clear: There is nothing wrong with capturing some wild animals, exporting them to other countries and re-selling them to people for breeding colonies and pets. The problem can occur when TOO MANY are removed from the wild in too short a space of time. Rather than have more government bureaucracy that will only serve to foul things up worse, I propose a solution from within where we begin to eliminate the need and market for WC animals by providing a reasonably priced BETTER alternative through captive breeding. I don't ever want importation banned. We need fresh DNA from time to time. There are many reasons why we might want to bring in some new WC tortoises. I would like to leave that door open, but GREATLY reduce the demand through voluntary captive breeding efforts, not through ridiculous, inflexible, poorly thought out and executed government laws and bans.


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## Jess84 (Oct 18, 2015)

Here is the write up from the CDC about the laws surrounding the import of tortoises and turtles. 

http://www.cdc.gov/importation/bringing-an-animal-into-the-united-states/turtles.html

"CDC does not regulate snakes or lizards, but does limit imports of small turtles, tortoises and terrapins and their viable eggs. Turtles with a carapace (shell) length of less than 4 inches and turtle eggs may not be imported for any commercial purpose. An individual may import as many as six small turtles or six eggs or any combination totaling six or fewer turtles and turtle eggs for noncommercial purposes. This rule was implemented in 1975 after it was discovered that small turtles frequently transmitted _Salmonella_ to humans, particularly young children.


Turtles with shell length (carapace) less than 4" and viable turtle eggs *may NOT* be imported for commercial purposes"


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