# Help me! Pyramiding problem!!!



## Amber_123 (Jan 12, 2013)

I was told my tortoise is starting to pyramid, and I was told to be worried. This is my four month old sulcata, Little Foot, there are a couple things that the worrying me on him, the line in his stomachs comes out when it looks like everybody else's goes in. I have no clue what pyramiding is or how it started. More importantly can it kill him and how do I get it to go away!? There are parts of his shell that are worrying me because the end of his shell is bending upward. Please help me! I don't want him to die! Thank you!


----------



## wellington (Jan 12, 2013)

Read and follow Toms threads at the bottom of my post. Pyramiding will not kill him. He doesn't look bad.


----------



## Thalatte (Jan 12, 2013)

The end of his shell is supposed to curl upwards. The line on his plastron "stomache" is popped out because he is young it will smooth out with age. I attached some pictures (not my pictures) of an adult sulcata. Look at the shell around his neck, it flips up. Also for size comparison each one has a baby sulcata on him, so you know what you are gettin into.


----------



## Tom (Jan 12, 2013)

Amber, I have seen at least a dozen references asking and advising you to read my threads. It seems that you haven't. All the answers to all the questions you been asking are contained there. Housing, heating, closed chambers, pyramiding, beginner mistakes, etc... I even have links in there for other keepers threads about housing and tortoise basics. Please take more time to do some reading, and less time typing for a short while. We all want to help you, and we all want to see you succeed, but do a little reading and catch yourself up to speed for us. Please. The links you need can simply be clicked on in Wellington's signature above, or in mine right below these words.


----------



## theelectraco (Jan 12, 2013)

Do you have a proper UVB bulb?


----------



## RedfootsRule (Jan 12, 2013)

Tom said:


> Amber, I have seen at least a dozen references asking and advising you to read my threads. It seems that you haven't. All the answers to all the questions you been asking are contained there. Housing, heating, closed chambers, pyramiding, beginner mistakes, etc... I even have links in there for other keepers threads about housing and tortoise basics. Please take more time to do some reading, and less time typing for a short while. We all want to help you, and we all want to see you succeed, but do a little reading and catch yourself up to speed for us. Please. The links you need can simply be clicked on in Wellington's signature above, or in mine right below these words.



Perhaps she wants more points of view and opinions then one mans perspective? Don't discourage people from posting threads just because there answers can be found elsewhere.


----------



## mainey34 (Jan 12, 2013)

Your baby will not die from pyramiding..its simply cosmetic..the best thing to do at this point while he is young is, keep him humid (80%) keep him warm...(basking 100-105) warm (90-95) cool (80) dont ever let your temp go below 80. You are asking for trouble if you do. Feed lots of greens...give calcium supplements. Tortoiselibrary.com has lots of good info on what to feed and what not to feed...


----------



## ascott (Jan 12, 2013)

That is a cute little baby....his shell looks good and his growth lines look fine. (to me )

If you do decide to use the constant high humidity and heat method please be sure to keep an eye on his shell for bacterial and fungal issues along with not letting the temps ever drop below 80 degrees day and night (as previously shared by mainey34) as this can expose your tort to increased risk of health problems. Warm and humid is a good option but cold and damp is a bad mixture...

If you do not decide to use the constant high humidity and heat method then you can simply provide a couple warm humid spots within your enclosure--this will give your baby the opportunity to go to more humid areas as well as be able to access cooler dryer spots in the enclosure as he sees fit (a tort needs to have the ability and option to "dry out" their lungs and shells to help maintain both in a healthy fashion--heck, even water turtles need to do this through out their day)...

Pyramiding is a weaking of the bone under the shell during growth periods---the bone is not as solid and dense when pyramiding as it is when you find a solid smoother shell....so yes, there is a little difference between a pyramiding shell and a naturally smooth shell....

Humidity, in my opinion, is not the cure all to ward off an unhealthy shell....varied diet, exercise, uv rays and hydration ALL play their own roles....


----------



## RedfootsRule (Jan 12, 2013)

ascott said:


> That is a cute little baby....his shell looks good and his growth lines look fine. (to me )
> 
> If you do decide to use the constant high humidity and heat method please be sure to keep an eye on his shell for bacterial and fungal issues along with not letting the temps ever drop below 80 degrees day and night (as previously shared by mainey34) as this can expose your tort to increased risk of health problems. Warm and humid is a good option but cold and damp is a bad mixture...
> 
> ...



I second this motion .


----------



## Amber_123 (Jan 12, 2013)

Tom said:


> Amber, I have seen at least a dozen references asking and advising you to read my threads. It seems that you haven't. All the answers to all the questions you been asking are contained there. Housing, heating, closed chambers, pyramiding, beginner mistakes, etc... I even have links in there for other keepers threads about housing and tortoise basics. Please take more time to do some reading, and less time typing for a short while. We all want to help you, and we all want to see you succeed, but do a little reading and catch yourself up to speed for us. Please. The links you need can simply be clicked on in Wellington's signature above, or in mine right below these words.



I have been reading.




theelectraco said:


> Do you have a proper UVB bulb?



Yes I do!




mainey34 said:


> Your baby will not die from pyramiding..its simply cosmetic..the best thing to do at this point while he is young is, keep him humid (80%) keep him warm...(basking 100-105) warm (90-95) cool (80) dont ever let your temp go below 80. You are asking for trouble if you do. Feed lots of greens...give calcium supplements. Tortoiselibrary.com has lots of good info on what to feed and what not to feed...



What's a good brand or type of calcium? I have a cuttlebone in there now.




ascott said:


> That is a cute little baby....his shell looks good and his growth lines look fine. (to me )
> 
> If you do decide to use the constant high humidity and heat method please be sure to keep an eye on his shell for bacterial and fungal issues along with not letting the temps ever drop below 80 degrees day and night (as previously shared by mainey34) as this can expose your tort to increased risk of health problems. Warm and humid is a good option but cold and damp is a bad mixture...
> 
> ...



Thank you so much that was very helpful!


----------



## mainey34 (Jan 12, 2013)

Cuttle bone is a great source of calcium, but has he been chewing on it himself? If not i would suggest scrapping some on his food at least 2 times a week...


----------



## Amber_123 (Jan 12, 2013)

mainey34 said:


> Cuttle bone is a great source of calcium, but has he been chewing on it himself? If not i would suggest scrapping some on his food at least 2 times a week...



I've never seen him eat it. Should I scrape it n everyday for at least a week and then slowly turn it into 3 times? Or keep it every day?


----------



## mainey34 (Jan 12, 2013)

I would just scrape it on his food at least 2 times a week..even now not every day, that would be too much...


----------



## Amber_123 (Jan 12, 2013)

mainey34 said:


> I would just scrape it on his food at least 2 times a week..even now not every day, that would be too much...



Okay thanks!


----------



## sibi (Jan 12, 2013)

Amber, what someone said in another thread was that there were signs that your baby's shell is beginning to pyramid. That only means that the scutes (or squares) on his shell show a slight rising. In order to prevent the scutes from raising further, u need to see that your baby's enclosure is humid enough. It's not life threatening, but if not checked, it can disfigure your baby's shell and in the worse cases, be an indicator of metabolic bone disease (mbd) which is serious. What Tom said is something that requires you to think about what he states. While everyone's case is different when it comes to matters of personal preferences, by and large, the things that really matter and that can have an affect on your baby are spelled out for you there. No one disputes his knowledge, experience, and commitment to raising healthy, happy tortoises. That's why so many here refer to his threads, and you should too. I totally get that you want answers quickly...most inexperienced owners do, but if u constantly ask questions that are answered for u in his threads, members would think that u don't take seriously the expertise of other members here. Also, it can show that u really don't appreciate the knowledge others have. Do u understand what I'm saying? We all want to help you, and we encourage questions, but so many of your concerns are addressed in care sheets that took a lot of sweat, blood, and tears so that you don't make the same mistakes. Of course, anything that u don't understand is a different story. I hope we have all helped you so far.


----------



## RedfootsRule (Jan 12, 2013)

Sibi,
It does not in any way show she doesn't take anyone seriously. When you first join the forum, you know not of the "expertise" of the supposed veteran members here, self-acclaimed or recognized. There is nothing wrong with asking questions that are answered elsewhere. As I said, it is very smart to get a collective opinion, not just one from a person you do not know.
Bottom line: asking a question that Tom somewhere on the forum has answered is not illegal. Questions are free to be answered by everyone, and asked by everyone, as is the reason for this forum.


----------



## Amber_123 (Jan 12, 2013)

sibi said:


> Amber, what someone said in another thread was that there were signs that your baby's shell is beginning to pyramid. That only means that the scutes (or squares) on his shell show a slight rising. In order to prevent the scutes from raising further, u need to see that your baby's enclosure is humid enough. It's not life threatening, but if not checked, it can disfigure your baby's shell and in the worse cases, be an indicator of metabolic bone disease (mbd) which is serious. What Tom said is something that requires you to think about what he states. While everyone's case is different when it comes to matters of personal preferences, by and large, the things that really matter and that can have an affect on your baby are spelled out for you there. No one disputes his knowledge, experience, and commitment to raising healthy, happy tortoises. That's why so many here refer to his threads, and you should too. I totally get that you want answers quickly...most inexperienced owners do, but if u constantly ask questions that are answered for u in his threads, members would think that u don't take seriously the expertise of other members here. Also, it can show that u really don't appreciate the knowledge others have. Do u understand what I'm saying? We all want to help you, and we encourage questions, but so many of your concerns are addressed in care sheets that took a lot of sweat, blood, and tears so that you don't make the same mistakes. Of course, anything that u don't understand is a different story. I hope we have all helped you so far.



I appreciate everything everyone is telling me, Even when I don't agree, I am very appreciative. Also, I have been reading toms threads but I still want others opinions on things just because he likes it doesn't mean I'm going to want to use it or do it.


----------



## sibi (Jan 12, 2013)

I get that. I am not discouraging questions...i think I've stated that in my reply. I'm simply stating the obvious. And, Peter, I don't need to be an expert to recognize one. Anyone with two brain cells can figure out who knows what they're talking about, and who's just giving conjecture. It's the ability to distinguish between the two that I'm talking about. Btw, stay out of my messages to others...can you get that!!! So, amber, although I'm relatively new to the forum (6 months), I have raised a reeves turtle for over 24 years. What I've experienced with her, no one ever wants to go through. When I got my two torts, I needed to learn a few things, but I learned more from Tom's threads than from any other person or readings. In just one year, one of my babies had to have surgery. I'd say I'm qualified to give some pretty good advice...but you can take it or leave it. It's your choice. 



Amber_123 said:


> sibi said:
> 
> 
> > Amber, what someone said in another thread was that there were signs that your baby's shell is beginning to pyramid. That only means that the scutes (or squares) on his shell show a slight rising. In order to prevent the scutes from raising further, u need to see that your baby's enclosure is humid enough. It's not life threatening, but if not checked, it can disfigure your baby's shell and in the worse cases, be an indicator of metabolic bone disease (mbd) which is serious. What Tom said is something that requires you to think about what he states. While everyone's case is different when it comes to matters of personal preferences, by and large, the things that really matter and that can have an affect on your baby are spelled out for you there. No one disputes his knowledge, experience, and commitment to raising healthy, happy tortoises. That's why so many here refer to his threads, and you should too. I totally get that you want answers quickly...most inexperienced owners do, but if u constantly ask questions that are answered for u in his threads, members would think that u don't take seriously the expertise of other members here. Also, it can show that u really don't appreciate the knowledge others have. Do u understand what I'm saying? We all want to help you, and we encourage questions, but so many of your concerns are addressed in care sheets that took a lot of sweat, blood, and tears so that you don't make the same mistakes. Of course, anything that u don't understand is a different story. I hope we have all helped you so far.
> ...


----------



## mainey34 (Jan 12, 2013)

RedfootsRule said:


> ascott said:
> 
> 
> > That is a cute little baby....his shell looks good and his growth lines look fine. (to me )
> ...



I agree with all of this but, bacterial and fungal issues in sulcatas shells are not as common as they are in redfoots...


----------



## Amber_123 (Jan 12, 2013)

sibi said:


> I get that. I am not discouraging questions...i think I've stated that in my reply. I'm simply stating the obvious. And, Peter, I don't need to be an expert to recognize one. Anyone with two brain cells can figure out who knows what they're talking about, and who's just giving conjecture. It's the ability to distinguish between the two that I'm talking about. Btw, stay out of my messages to others...can you get that!!! So, amber, although I'm relatively new to the forum (6 months), I have raised a reeves turtle for over 24 years. What I've experienced with her, no one ever wants to go through. When I got my two torts, I needed to learn a few things, but I learned more from Tom's threads than from any other person or readings. In just one year, one of my babies had to have surgery. I'd say I'm qualified to give some pretty good advice...but you can take it or leave it. It's your choice.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You do give good advice! So does Tom, but I like to know What others use to if that makes sense. I feel like everybody says something different so it's interesting to hear what all everybody has to say because it can help me as a tortoise owner because I want to have a lot and breed them some day.


----------



## Zabbi0 (Jan 13, 2013)

sibi said:


> Amber, what someone said in another thread was that there were signs that your baby's shell is beginning to pyramid. That only means that the scutes (or squares) on his shell show a slight rising. In order to prevent the scutes from raising further, u need to see that your baby's enclosure is humid enough. It's not life threatening, but if not checked, it can disfigure your baby's shell and in the worse cases, be an indicator of metabolic bone disease (mbd) which is serious. What Tom said is something that requires you to think about what he states. While everyone's case is different when it comes to matters of personal preferences, by and large, the things that really matter and that can have an affect on your baby are spelled out for you there. No one disputes his knowledge, experience, and commitment to raising healthy, happy tortoises. That's why so many here refer to his threads, and you should too. I totally get that you want answers quickly...most inexperienced owners do, but if u constantly ask questions that are answered for u in his threads, members would think that u don't take seriously the expertise of other members here. Also, it can show that u really don't appreciate the knowledge others have. Do u understand what I'm saying? We all want to help you, and we encourage questions, but so many of your concerns are addressed in care sheets that took a lot of sweat, blood, and tears so that you don't make the same mistakes. Of course, anything that u don't understand is a different story. I hope we have all helped you so far.



You couldn't have stated it better. 
I myself still try and review a lot of these care sheets from time to time to make sure I'm understanding things correctly. Hasn't failed me yet.


----------



## 81SHOVELHEAD (Jan 13, 2013)

Amber 
I know nothing about sulcatas & really don't plan to ever own one unless it a rescue that needs a good home .
The photos of your tort looks fine to me & i see nothing to worry about .
Just keep him on a good diet .Keep him warm/ hydrated & give him plenty of exercise & you will be fine.
Mike D


----------



## Amber_123 (Jan 13, 2013)

81SHOVELHEAD said:


> Amber
> I know nothing about sulcatas & really don't plan to ever own one unless it a rescue that needs a good home .
> The photos of your tort looks fine to me & i see nothing to worry about .
> Just keep him on a good diet .Keep him warm/ hydrated & give him plenty of exercise & you will be fine.
> Mike D



Okay thank you! And yiu should look into one next time youre buying a tortoise, they're so friendly!


----------



## mainey34 (Jan 13, 2013)

I must say Amber, everyone has their own way of doing things. Kinda like having your first baby. Trial and error. Everyone shares their experiences on what has worked for them. The only thing you can do is take it all in and see what works for you. I know ive had to learn alot of things, i must say..my experiences..with my torts...this is me, i have gone by Toms direction and its worked for ME every time...( i just know someone is going to call me a tom worshiper now...dont care!) If it works...go with it...


----------



## Amber_123 (Jan 13, 2013)

mainey34 said:


> I must say Amber, everyone has their own way of doing things. Kinda like having your first baby. Trial and error. Everyone shares their experiences on what has worked for them. The only thing you can do is take it all in and see what works for you. I know ive had to learn alot of things, i must say..my experiences..with my torts...this is me, i have gone by Toms direction and its worked for ME every time...( i just know someone is going to call me a tom worshiper now...dont care!) If it works...go with it...



Okay thanks


----------



## LuckysGirl007 (Jan 13, 2013)

I second that Mainey. I've read a lot of different ways to raise them. I chose to follow Tom's care sheets and advice. A few other people I know got babies at the same time I did from the same guy. They keep theirs differently...mostly just dry with daily soaks. Their's are now much MUCH smaller than mine and show signs of pyramiding...mine do not. I think a lot of Sulcata keepers on her refer you to Tom's threads because it is what they themselves have used and what has worked for them. So when you get a lot of "read Tom's threads" that's because that's how a lot of us care for our babies.


----------



## Amber_123 (Jan 13, 2013)

LuckysGirl007 said:


> I second that Mainey. I've read a lot of different ways to raise them. I chose to follow Tom's care sheets and advice. A few other people I know got babies at the same time I did from the same guy. They keep theirs differently...mostly just dry with daily soaks. Their's are now much MUCH smaller than mine and show signs of pyramiding...mine do not. I think a lot of Sulcata keepers on her refer you to Tom's threads because it is what they themselves have used and what has worked for them. So when you get a lot of "read Tom's threads" that's because that's how a lot of us care for our babies.


I have read Tom's threads I have been sent to read and some others I chose to read, I have talked to him for a while over pm, I know he raises healthy torts but so do others and I have used or about to start using a lot of toms ideas but I have also used and about to start using a lot of redfootsrule's ideas they both have amazing ideas and are very helpful!


----------



## mainey34 (Jan 13, 2013)

Amber_123 said:


> LuckysGirl007 said:
> 
> 
> > I second that Mainey. I've read a lot of different ways to raise them. I chose to follow Tom's care sheets and advice. A few other people I know got babies at the same time I did from the same guy. They keep theirs differently...mostly just dry with daily soaks. Their's are now much MUCH smaller than mine and show signs of pyramiding...mine do not. I think a lot of Sulcata keepers on her refer you to Tom's threads because it is what they themselves have used and what has worked for them. So when you get a lot of "read Tom's threads" that's because that's how a lot of us care for our babies.
> ...


Im not sure i understand..one has experiences with desert type tortoises and the other has experiences with rainforest type tortoises. They are two different types of climates. They require different housing. Im not trying to start anything, im just confused.


----------



## RedfootsRule (Jan 13, 2013)

Mainey,
I have just as much experience with sulcatas as my red foots. Furthermore, the ability to instruct someone to do whats right for basically any sick tortoise, or the typical care of sulcatas, is a skill most experienced members have, and most are willing to provide.


----------



## mainey34 (Jan 13, 2013)

Peter, i directed that question to Amber, but thank you for your reply.


----------



## LuckysGirl007 (Jan 13, 2013)

Amber_123 said:


> I have read Tom's threads I have been sent to read and some others I chose to read, I have talked to him for a while over pm, I know he raises healthy torts but so do others and I have used or about to start using a lot of toms ideas but I have also used and about to start using a lot of redfootsrule's ideas they both have amazing ideas and are very helpful!



Good. I think that you have to take in all the info and use what works best for you. 

I just wanted to make sure you understood that the suggestions for Tom's threads were not just put out blindly. They were also from the experiences of each of us that have chosen to use his methods.


----------



## Amber_123 (Jan 13, 2013)

LuckysGirl007 said:


> Amber_123 said:
> 
> 
> > I have read Tom's threads I have been sent to read and some others I chose to read, I have talked to him for a while over pm, I know he raises healthy torts but so do others and I have used or about to start using a lot of toms ideas but I have also used and about to start using a lot of redfootsrule's ideas they both have amazing ideas and are very helpful!
> ...


Yes I do understand that! Thanks!


----------



## RedfootsRule (Jan 13, 2013)

mainey34 said:


> Peter, i directed that question to Amber, but thank you for your reply.



I'm sure you did, but I feel the need to answer any question that is questioning my experience, or regarding me.


----------

