# Why so domed ??



## arotester (Feb 19, 2013)

Hi everyone,
i want to ask a question about the domed shells of torts(sorry but i don't know about ploughshare torts)













These are the pics of torts from some breeders here,
why are they so highly domed and so different than other tort?
Is it a deformity or is it normal shell growth?


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## panky (Feb 19, 2013)

arotester said:


> Hi everyone,
> i want to ask a question about the domed shells of torts(sorry but i don't know about ploughshare torts)
> 
> 
> ...



ohh..never saw so domed torts b4....dunno..


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## Yellow Turtle (Feb 19, 2013)

I don't have a real answer to your question. I see ynips in my country have various kind of shells, but majority of them are pretty high dome and shape like balls compare to other species.

I do have question for you.
Does this breeder produce the ynips on the pictures?


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## Tom (Feb 19, 2013)

I'm not going to speculate on the reason why they evolved such a high dome, but this species IS supposed to have a very high dome. Its one of their characteristics. I find it very appealing. They are sort of at the opposite end of the spectrum of a flattened pancake tortoise.

Those are some perfect looking very attractive specimens, by the way.


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## GeoTerraTestudo (Feb 19, 2013)

Tortoises that need to burrow have flattened carapaces, for easier movement underground. Those that don't burrow have evolved higher-domed carapaces to help them roll right side up if they've been flipped over.

An object that can always right itself is called a gomboc. It's thought that the carapaces of non-burrowing tortoises have naturally evolved into gombocs, to help them stay upright.


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## Cowboy_Ken (Feb 19, 2013)

I think though, if truly on their back, these torts would need some vary long legs in order to reach the ground to aid in righting themselves. My pancakes have no problem righting themselves when flat on their backs due in part to their legs reaching the ground so easily.


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## bigred (Feb 19, 2013)

my dream tortoise, Where in the world are you located at. Those look perfectly healthy. If you see a flatter Ploughshare then its time to worry




Cowboy_Ken said:


> I think though, if truly on their back, these torts would need some vary long legs in order to reach the ground to aid in righting themselves. My pancakes have no problem righting themselves when flat on their backs due in part to their legs reaching the ground so easily.



I was thinking along these same lines


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## GeoTerraTestudo (Feb 19, 2013)

Well, that's the thing. Flat-backed tortoises use their limbs, while dome-backed tortoises practically roll back into position almost passively.


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## TortoiseWorld (Feb 19, 2013)

Ploughshare tortoises found in Madagascar are extremely rare and threatened, they are critically endangered. I don't think it's even possible to get one legally. The ones that are found on the black market are stolen from protected areas. They are one of the most attractive tortoises species because of their round high dome carapace. I hope more conservationists like Mr. Goode will find the funding needed to breed and protect them before they are extinct.


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## CtTortoiseMom (Feb 19, 2013)

They are just incredibly beautiful!


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## mctlong (Feb 19, 2013)

arotester said:


> These are the pics of torts from some breeders here,



Where is here? Are these breeders in the US? If they are, please PM me their contact info. I'd love to talk to them.


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## EricIvins (Feb 19, 2013)

They are over in Asia. Mainly Korea, but all the Asian countries get their fare share of them and any other Madagascar Tortoises. Some are having really good success with breeding them over there also.......


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## TortoiseWorld (Feb 19, 2013)

Matthias Goetz, Head of Durrellâ€™s Herpetology Department in the UK, said â€œSadly, an increasing number of ploughshare tortoises have been smuggled out of Madagascar through South Asian countries where more and more have been seized by border authorities. While it has been possible to repatriate some, this is challenging and if the animals have spent time outside of Madagascar there are disease risks to bringing them back. Equally, establishing a viable international breeding program for the species has been identified as one of the key approaches to ensuring the speciesâ€™ survival.â€


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## GeoTerraTestudo (Feb 19, 2013)

^^I think captive breeding is key to saving a lot of wild animals, including many species of tortoise.


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## Tom (Feb 19, 2013)

I have also heard that the asian countries where these are being smuggled to are having good success breeding them. The perfect babies shown in the OP here, lend credence to these rumors. I think there ARE established breeding colonies in some parts of Asia. None of the three pictured tortoise look wild caught to me.


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## paludarium (Feb 19, 2013)

Believe me, the loughshare tortoises smuggled to asian countries or mainly China were all wild-caught specimens from Madagascar. According to a local smuggler, it is hard to keep young loughshare tortoises alive, not to mention breeding them, unless they were subadults or adults. However, most loughshare tortoises in the black markets are young specimens. The authorities of Taiwan have confiscated a few specimens of loughshare tortoises and kept them in Taipei Zoo, however, even the experts in the zoo did not know how to keep the those tortoises healthy. Two years ago some of subadult loughshare tortoises were sent to US for joining one of the international breeding programs.

And for the carapace morphology of the tortoises, the following article might give us some hints: Effects of diet on the systematic utility of the tortoise carapace. But I'd like to remind that this was not a objective or prospective study.


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## DeanS (Feb 19, 2013)

I hope you're not complaining...because they look GORGEOUS to me!  If you get tired of 'em...I'll gladly take 'em off your hands!


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## Kapidolo Farms (Feb 19, 2013)

paludarium said:


> Believe me, the loughshare tortoises smuggled to asian countries or mainly China were all wild-caught specimens from Madagascar. According to a local smuggler, it is hard to keep young loughshare tortoises alive, not to mention breeding them, unless they were subadults or adults. However, most loughshare tortoises in the black markets are young specimens. The authorities of Taiwan have confiscated a few specimens of loughshare tortoises and kept them in Taipei Zoo, however, even the experts in the zoo did not know how to keep the those tortoises healthy. Two years ago some of subadult loughshare tortoises were sent to US for joining one of the international breeding programs.
> 
> And for the carapace morphology of the tortoises, the following article might give us some hints: Effects of diet on the systematic utility of the tortoise carapace. But I'd like to remind that this was not a objective or prospective study.



Maybe I am missing YOUR point, but the point of the article is that pyramided animals can still have enough characteristics apparent in their shells that some taxonomic morphology diagnosis is still possible. That is you can tell which species is which even if the shell is distorted from a poor diet.

That is not the same thing as a high domed shell in the images shown in this thread for ploughshare tortoises. The tortoise images in this thread look like properly proportioned individuals for the species.

I do not see any mention in the article about doming a shell with a poor diet. The poor diet mentioned in the article will be a bad choice under any circumstance.

Will


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## luvpetz27 (Feb 19, 2013)

They are so beautiful!!!


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## paludarium (Feb 19, 2013)

Will said:


> Maybe I am missing YOUR point, but the point of the article is that pyramided animals can still have enough characteristics apparent in their shells that some taxonomic morphology diagnosis is still possible. That is you can tell which species is which even if the shell is distorted from a poor diet.
> 
> That is not the same thing as a high domed shell in the images shown in this thread for ploughshare tortoises. The tortoise images in this thread look like properly proportioned individuals for the species.
> 
> ...


Yes, you are right, this article focused mainly on pyramiding of the tortoises. But what I meant "hint" refers to the carapace slope (carapace height at the 3rd vertebral scute / height at the 1st vertebral). I speculated that the contours of the shells, either domed or flat, were determined by the carapace slopes.

The following pictures are 2 wild-caught Burmese stars, a domed one and a regular(flat) one:


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## arotester (Feb 19, 2013)

ok lot of people asked me about where are the above tortoises located ? so the answer is "Indonesia" .I was on a trip and i saw these with a person,the person was into breeding these torts.
Also, i want to know whether the C.G.(center of gravity) for ploughshare is more towards the plastron as compared to pancakes where it is in middle of the shell .
Have anybody seen pyramided ploughshares??


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## Yellow Turtle (Feb 20, 2013)

arotester said:


> ok lot of people asked me about where are the above tortoises located ? so the answer is "Indonesia" .I was on a trip and i saw these with a person,the person was into breeding these torts.
> Also, i want to know whether the C.G.(center of gravity) for ploughshare is more towards the plastron as compared to pancakes where it is in middle of the shell .
> Have anybody seen pyramided ploughshares??



Oh LOL, my own country, then I suspect I might know who you are talking about.

Oh yes, I've seen pictures of some pyramided ploughshares under sell here. Some are worse...


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## Kapidolo Farms (Feb 20, 2013)

I understand better, and that is one very ancient Burmese Star. Will


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## FROG (Jul 18, 2013)

arotester said:


> Hi everyone,
> i want to ask a question about the domed shells of torts(sorry but i don't know about ploughshare torts)
> 
> 
> ...


They are beautiful


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