# does Mazuri work for you? Good/Bad



## NEtorts (Feb 23, 2011)

Maybe this should be in the debatable topics.....so feel free to move it if it becomes a debate..
Anyway, I have been resaerching Mazuri a bit and wondering what everyones experience is with it.... I have found a tractor supply store near my house and am told they can get it... 
The ingredients puzzle me a bit, ...
Ground soybean hulls, ground corn, ground oats, dehulled soybean meal, wheat middlings, cane molasses, dehydrated alfalfa meal, wheat germ, soybean oil, dicalcium phosphate, monocalcium phosphate, brewers dried yeast, calcium carbonate, salt, DL-methionine, choline chloride, menadione dimethylpyrimidinol bisulfite (vitamin K), pyridoxine hydrochloride, d-alpha tocopheryl acetate (natural source vitamin E), cholecalciferol (vitamin D3), biotin, L-lysine, tocopherols (a preservative), calcium pantothenate, vitamin A acetate, riboflavin, folic acid, nicotinic acid, thiamin mononitrate, vitamin B12 supplement, manganous oxide, zinc oxide, ferrous carbonate, copper sulfate, zinc sulfate, calcium iodate, cobalt carbonate, sodium selenite.

soybean, corn, molasses, alfalfa...everything i have read seems to point you away from those things for some torts,(desert species)
maybe it would be a great partial diet? or for me a wintertime staple and supliment with greens and hay? 
Any thoughts are welcome


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## samstar (Feb 23, 2011)

I have been feeding my torts Mazuri 6 days a week with excellent results. 
They are addicted to it.


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## NEtorts (Feb 23, 2011)

How long have you been feeding it and do you supliment with fresh greens/vegies/hay? do you soak it before feeding?
thanks for your reply


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## samstar (Feb 23, 2011)

Yes I soak it in water for 20-30 seconds before feeding it to them, I have been feeding my torts Mazuri now for 2 years already. Every once in a while I feed them spring mix, hibiscus etc etc but it's like once a week.


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## Shelly (Feb 23, 2011)

Never use it.


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## EricIvins (Feb 23, 2011)

I've used an all Mazuri diet with a bunch of different Tortoise species and swear by the stuff........I usually don't get a chance to wet it before the majority of it is gone.......The bigger Torts don't really chew it, it usually goes down the gullet whole........


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## GBtortoises (Feb 23, 2011)

Many people do not feed Mazuri as a staple, but feed it once or twice a week in addition to a staple diet of greens. Mazuri does have alot of questionable ingredients in it and according to the company's own ingredient values, 15% protein. I've only been using it for about two years, once a week mixed with greens. I have not seen any negative effects of using it. Many of my tortoises (mostly Northern Mediterranean species) don't care that much for it and most of the Mazuri I feed them ends up in the trash. My Marginateds of all ages and young Ibera seem to be the only ones really interested in the Mazuri chow. The rest waste it. In my case more definitely gets thrown away than is eaten. But with the exception of Marginateds, most of the species I keep aren't true grass eaters either. 
I use Mazuri pellets as a vitamin and mineral supplement, not so much as a food source.

I also live in the Northeast, not as far north as you. I've never had a problem finding a good variety and quality of grocery store greens throughout the winter in my area. That is what I rely on to feed them throughout the fall, winter and early spring.

What is Tractor Supply charging for a 25 lb. bag? I'm curious because I live 15 minutes from a Tractor Supply but I buy my Mazuri from a Blue Seal feed dealer elsewhere.


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## Laura (Feb 23, 2011)

i feed it dry. and it depends on how often. but maybe twice a week.. I supplement with it or use it when i cant go pick weeds. The two that eat it are in a smaller pen, and the grass is just starting to come back. 
I buy it at the feed store. $22 for a 20 pound bag...

maybe its 25 pound...


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## Robert (Feb 23, 2011)

Like GBTortoises, I consider it more of a supplement. I use 2x per week and I do moisten it before giving to my tort. Sometimes she eats it first, sometimes she eats it last. All I know is, she eats it!


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## NEtorts (Feb 23, 2011)

tractor supply was looking into it as far as price goes, I do have a blue seal here too.... good thought I will check with them too, I dont have a problem getting fresh greens/veggies it just get expensive, I wish I could get the outdated stuff all the time......if I hit it right they mark down the produce as it approaches its shelf life... I love that its like winning the lottery!
Anyone ever asked a grocery store to save outdated produce for them? sometimes bread stores here will save their stuff for pig farmers.....


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## jeffbens0n (Feb 23, 2011)

I feed it a couple times a week. Only as a supplement, always with greens, and soaked for approximately 1 minute first. My 3.5 year old leopard loves it and will seek it out in his pile of greens to eat it. My Russian, I have never seen actively pursue eating it, but he ends up eating most of it since its mixed with his greens, but some does go to waste with him.


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## spikethebest (Feb 23, 2011)

I always use it, and all my torts, from hatchling size to adult love it!


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## Mao Senpai (Feb 23, 2011)

I feed it to them once a week, I mix it into choped/sliced cactus and amount other greens. Greens at the store isn't usually that expensive for me... like 95 cents for a bunch of collards, turnips, mustard or like a dollar for dandelion greens. At least at stop and shop up here...


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## Tom (Feb 23, 2011)

I too never used to use it. I also found the ingredients list very un-impressive. However, an overwhelming number of top tortoise people swear by it and I've seen nothing but excellent results. I started using it almost a year ago, after several people recommended it, and I've had nothing but good results too.

I feed it about twice a week, soaked and mixed with greens.


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## CtTortoiseMom (Feb 23, 2011)

We keep our Mazuri in a large tupperware container in the fridge. Does anyone else refrigerate their mazuri? Is it necessary?


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## NEtorts (Feb 23, 2011)

very interesting, thanks for posting... keep it coming... it is hard to discredit it when so many succesful tort keepers use it... is there anyone out there who has had a major problem with it?


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## Mao Senpai (Feb 23, 2011)

CtTortoiseMom said:


> We keep our Mazuri in a large tupperware container in the fridge. Does anyone else refrigerate their mazuri? Is it necessary?



I.. have it in 3, 1 gallon zip lag bags just sitting next to the tortoise enclosures. Since well I got a whole ton of it not realizing how much 6lbs was. It's been several months and it still smells and looks the way it was out of the box. 

On a different note, I do notice once the mazuri is moisten it has a limited time frame how long it does stay good for. After like 2 hours or something (sometimes I feed it to them before work and come home to clean it after) it starts to stink pretty bad, so leftovers should be cleaned within the same day.

The zoomed grassland food seems to be pretty good as well, I usually mix that with the mazuri and mix it with greens.


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## terryo (Feb 23, 2011)

I also keep mine in zip lock bags in the refrigerator. In the Summer if I have any left over I put the bags in the freezer. Lasts forever.
During the Winter months, if I can't get out because of snow, I feed it to my torts and also my Boxies. Everyone loves it. I rarely feed it in the Summer. If I have greens available I will chop them up and mix it with the mazuri....fruit...anything I have on hand I'll will mix with it.


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## Marty333 (Feb 23, 2011)

The only problem I have had with it is that Nova loves it TOO much LOL I had stop feeding her it for a few days to get her to eat greens and fruits and then I slowly introduced mazuri back in. I keep it in a big plastic bag in my fridge also it keeps longer.


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## GBtortoises (Feb 23, 2011)

"tractor supply was looking into it as far as price goes, I do have a blue seal here too.... good thought I will check with them too, I dont have a problem getting fresh greens/veggies it just get expensive, I wish I could get the outdated stuff all the time......if I hit it right they mark down the produce as it approaches its shelf life... I love that its like winning the lottery!
Anyone ever asked a grocery store to save outdated produce for them? sometimes bread stores here will save their stuff for pig farmers"

The best I've been able to get a 25 lb. bag around here for is about $26.00, not including sales tax. I buy about one bag every three months so I'm not going to get any kind of bulk purchase discount.

Fresh greens are definitely expensive, but I think a much better quality food than cuttings, which you wouldn't have much choice of what you're getting. Many years ago growing up on the farm we used to get cuttings and old produce from a couple of local grocery stores to feed our pigs and rabbits on top of their other foods. Most of it was pretty poor quality stuff, we threw away more than we used and finally stopped getting it altogether. I spend _alot_ of money on tortoise food during the winter months! But I look at it as part of the commitment to keep them healthy and strong. The food during the warmer months are completely free for me if you don't consider the time, so I justify the spending by making myself believe that it evens out over the course of the year!

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Read more: http://www.tortoiseforum.org/Thread-does-Mazuri-work-for-you-Good-Bad#ixzz1Eo88LYGn


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## NEtorts (Feb 23, 2011)

Yes i agree, it does even out.. i grow 90% of what they eat all summer long and even stock pile pumpkins and squash for the winter months.....i am just always looking for resources......I am thinking I will try the Mazuri though 25 bucks or so doesnt seem al that much for 25lbs.... seems just slightly more than my dogs food. although I dont have 11 dogs to feed, my sulcata probably eats more than my 35 lb border collie!! they are about the same weight


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## GBtortoises (Feb 23, 2011)

"i am just always looking for resources"

I certainly can't argue with that! I'm always on the look out myself! The downside to you and I and others keeping tortoises here in the Northeast (and North in general) is that we have such short summers that our "free" food isn't available for long.


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## jeffbens0n (Feb 23, 2011)

I keep it ON my fridge not IN my fridge.


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## ChiKat (Feb 23, 2011)

I agree with GBtortoises that it should be used as a supplement. I am not really impressed with the ingredients.
I have actually never used Mazuri. There was one time this winter where I didn't really have good greens to feed Nelson (I think I might have had some romaine actually) so I thawed some frozen pumpkin that day. I've never had a problem where I needed Mazuri because I couldn't get to the store...especially in the summer when I go outside to pick his meals (LOVE that!) 
I will admit I am NOT a tortoise expert and I've only had my one tortoise for a little over a year. But I feel I can offer Nelson a better diet with greens, weeds, spring mix, pumpkin, squash, flowers, leaves, etc.


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## Kuro (Feb 23, 2011)

My two herman's love it but only get it maybe three times a week, my little sulcata hates it but will eat some grassland if i lightly slather some on her greens

my two stinkpot turtles eat the mazuri fresh water turtle diet and like it...it is one of their staple pellets(i use several diferent brands and they get treats like krill). they been eating it since they were old enough and eat it well. my only problem with it is the odor..stuff smells awful..it not gone bad as it super fresh it just stinks


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## B K (Feb 23, 2011)

I use it two times a week I still give them there greens on those days just half what they normally get.Its like candy to them.


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## Yvonne G (Feb 23, 2011)

I think its a VERY good idea to get your tortoise interested in eating a manufactured food...not as a replacement of a more natural diet, but so that you have something he'll eat when or if you ever don't have greens or veggies to feed him. Hay the same way. If you can get them interested in eating a manufactured tortoise food and hay, then you're home free if you are ever snowed in and can't get to the store.


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## gummybearpoop (Feb 23, 2011)

All the tortoises I have kept (redfoots, leos, sri lankan stars, burmese stars, russians, and radiateds) all eat mazuri with gusto. I supplement mazuri along with repcal and zoo med grassland tortoise diet (all mixed together) and feed that mixture every week or two in the winter and once/twice a week in the summer. Even with a variety, many of the grocery greens will probably miss some of the nutrients....which is why I supplement with the commercial diets. In addition, I grow most of my greens/weeds/produce. And I KNOW that my gardens produce a lot healthier plants than what is available in grocery stores - a perk about growing your own food/tortoise food.


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## ALDABRAMAN (Feb 23, 2011)

Gosh, I am not one to debate on this forum for severl reasons, however, this is kinda close to home. Here is what I will say about mazuri, we supplement during our egg laying season only and with small amounts to our breeding colony. We never feed any hatchlings, juveniles, or sub-adults mazuri at all. Like Marty said about her tort not wanting to eat a regular diet, anyone ever considered maybe the manufacturer puts something in it that is addictive, like Mcdonalds? Does a tort in the wild eat the ingediants in Mazuri? It was my understanding that this chow was specifically designed originally for zoos as a supplement in the harsh winter months for the Galop. I will add we are located in Florida with good natural vegitation all year and I would find it challenging in most northen states to support our kind of feeding program. I have nothing against mazuri, however I feel the more natural the food sources the better and should be the number one choice, mazuri chow should be supplemental and secondary.


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## steve426 (Feb 23, 2011)

I have never used it and don't feel my torts need a manufactured food. It is winter, and i am in canada but i still manage to have a constant supply of grasses and weeds growing in my basement under UV lighting. It works for me


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## Nobody (Feb 23, 2011)

I've been feeding my 2 Sulcata tortoises,Secretariat(Male) and Ruffian(Female),Mazuri everyday for the past year and so far,I have gotten no problems.In fact,I have gotten good results from Mazuri.It is part of their staple food everyday together with the grasses they graze at my garden and veggies twice a week.


PS.I live here in the Philippines and I get My Mazuri from spikethebest,Corey.


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## samstar (Feb 24, 2011)

-Ej(Ed) has been feeding Mazuri to his torts for some 15 years already with excellent results. 
-The zoos have been feeding Mazuri with excellent results to for over 10 years. 
-My friend has been feeding Mazuri only for 4-5 years with good results, he said his torts are more active than ever.

Enough guys?


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## ChiKat (Feb 24, 2011)

But what do "excellent results" mean?


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## Nay (Feb 24, 2011)

I also do a mixture, but it is a nice feeling when you have something they love on hand that is easy. Or if someone has to watch them. I was having a hard time a while back and instead of placing my torts, I had someone take care of them for me and being able to have them just use Mazuri was a god send! I had posted that as a question and it sparked a thread just like this one.
But watching them eat a variety of foods is way more entertaining!
Na


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## NEtorts (Feb 24, 2011)

I am sold, I will order some and give it a try, it would be easier to feed them if a "pet sitter" didnt have to go to the store to get fresh greens...excellent.... thanks for the responses.... Now if I could only get some service from Mega Ray


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## Fernando (Feb 24, 2011)

I give Andy (sulcata) Mazuri 3 times a week. I soak it for about 5 minutes to get it nice and moist because I notice he had a really hard time eating it when it wasn't soaked long enough. I've had no problems w/ it and I've been giving it to him for about 2 months now. 

I keep it under his enclsoure in a zip lock bag. I buy 1/2 pound bag for $2.50 at my local petshop.


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## Dizisdalife (Feb 24, 2011)

When my tort got sick with a URI his appetite disappeared. I had never used Mazuri pellets, but since he wouldn't eat anything else I gave it a try. He ate it right up. I was happy to see him eat something and really didn't care if it was the best thing for him or not. Since he has started to recover from the URI he prefers radicchio or greens, but still eats the Mazuri. I find that it is easy to add calcium supplements or vitamins to the pellets and will keep some around for just that purpose.


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## tortoisenerd (Feb 24, 2011)

I also don't get the "good results comment"...you mean they like it? Well of course they do...like kids like candy. 

I think its a great for a treat, when you run out of produce due to a storm, etc, but not as a regular part of the diet. If anything, I prefer the ingredients of Grassland Tortoise Diet over Mazuri, but neither are ideal, as they violate my thoughts on vitamins for torts (such as D3). I think its bad due to the ingredients, high calories (ie. fastener growth than on other captive diets, and especially compared to wild diets), and that torts get addicted to it. I would also be scared to feed it dry because of how it soaks up water like crazy...meaning I think it would dehydrate the tort from the inside out. 

I think one of the reasons it has so much hype is because zoos use it...which I think is mainly because its cheap!

When I've had a pet sitter for even up to 8 days I had no problem leaving a Ziploc of food for each day...I stuck a napkin in each bag to absorb moisture and it stayed fresh just fine. I just gave instructions to feed organic romaine or green leaf or something easy if it did go bad.


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## exoticsdr (Feb 24, 2011)

Here is something to consider. Nutrients are nutrients regardless of thier origin. If you need Vit C in your diet, does it matter if it comes from oranges (that may be available in your native habitat) or green peppers (that are foreign to your habitat)? Mazuri simply takes the recommended dietary needs of tortoises and makes a diet out of the available products that provide those nutrients. 

I was a little leary when I first heard of Mazuri Tortoise also, but in the end...the torts don't lie, my critters are all healthy and happy and no problems. I use Mazuri as a supplement to fresh greens and veggies in the winter, and grasses and weeds in the summer.

I am currently doing some diet trials with a product called Chaffhaye. It is a partially fermented feed based on alfalfa or grass hay...aka haylage. I am using it as a main food source for my llama, deer and sheep and supplementing my kangaroos and torts. These food trials are being done by myself and No, I'm not using any scientific controls...at least not yet.

I will leave it up the the members of the forum to do their own initial reasearch, but would be very interested in a discussion on the product (after, you read the nutritional breakdown of the product) and if you feel it may be an alternative or additional supplement that may make tortoise keeping easier.


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## B K (Feb 24, 2011)

Is the Chaffhaye in pellet form do you soak it I would like to try it in my deer feader.


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## exoticsdr (Feb 24, 2011)

Bill, no it comes in a plastic wrapped bail (50#). Down here in Texas, the wild deer don't recognize it as a food source at first because it is alien down here, but once they start eating it, it is difficult to keep enough out. Many of the farmed deer operations are using it with great success. In your area,not a problem, the deer are probably used to alfalfa and other forms of silage available on farms. If you want, PM me and I'll see if I can find any dealers in your area. For the small animal owner, they are going to start packaging it in 2 pound (?) packages also.


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## Maggie Cummings (Feb 24, 2011)

I live in the PacificNorthWest and now in the middle of winter there aren't any grasses or weeds so I am feeding Bob grocery store greens given to me by the produce dept at Market of Choice, a high end grocery store. Now because Bob is just getting those greens, hay and nothing else he is prone to soft or runny poop. So I have discovered that if I use Mazuri 2 or 3 times a week his poop is pretty nice. I have about 1/4 of a bale of hay available to him at all times and even his runny poop has hay in it. At first I thought hay would keep his poop nice and firm but no deal. However, Mazuri keeps things runny nicely, as long as I use it 2 or 3 times a week he has nice well formed solid poop. I feed enough of a varied diet that I pretty much don't worry about what is in Mazuri and I will stop feeding it as soon as the grass starts growing again...


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## Tom (Feb 24, 2011)

Here's a little perspective from the bird world. It sort of applies here too. Back in the old days, there was no pelleted parrot diets. Most people fed a seed mixture and little, if anything, else. Some people put out greens and fresh veggies too. Often, these parrots would just eats their favorite parts of their diet and skip the rest. Over time this would lead to malnutrition and other diet related problems. When pellets hit the scene, most people shunned them. Most of the birds wouldn't eat them. People said it was unnatural and didn't like the ingredient lists. "Birds don't go to a pellet tree in the wild", they would say. No, no they didn't. That's true. The people who persisted and took the necessary month or two to transition their birds onto a complete, balanced pelleted diet started seeing "excellent results". Overall health and vigor improved. Resistance to disease improved. Feather color and quality improved. Breeding, fertility, egg production, and production of healthy offspring increased greatly. Are these results excellent enough?

In my own collection of torts, Mazuri has helped to improve egg production in Delores, my adult female sulcata, from 7 eggs last year to 12 eggs this year. Last year three were fertile. I don't know how many are fertile yet this year, but I'll bet money its going to be more than 3. She's also acting like she's going to lay again. This would make this year her first double clutch, if it happens. Daisy ended her two and a half period of almost no growth and has now tripled her weight in the space of about 9 months on the Mazuri. She's still small, but she's catching up to "normal" weight and length for a three year old. Her health and activity level "seem" much better to me too. My baby leopards and sulcatas are all getting it too. They are growing at a "normal" rate and are all looking smooth and healthy.

Can you raise a healthy tortoise without it? Of course you can. Its still a good way to get balanced nutrition into any tort. Its also a good way to get much needed protein into your tort. Many top pros feel that the average tortoise is protein deficient due to our long held and mistaken idea that protein causes pyramiding. They need SOME protein and Mazuri delivers just the right amount and in the right way. It also compensates for any nutrient deficiencies that might exist in our torts diets. I don't have a lab to test samples of every food item they eat to check for nutritional balance, trace elements and the right amount and balance of each mineral and vitamin. Even if I had a lab, I don't even know what the "optimal" levels would be for any of these. However, I think the people who make Mazuri DO have a lab and DO know how to properly balance all of these elements.

I'm not saying that its the best thing ever invented. I'm not saying feed Mazuri and nothing else. I AM saying that its a good way to ensure proper nutrition and balance when fed in moderate amounts 2 or 3 times a week. We can argue the merits of the ingredient list all day long. We can argue whether or not its "natural" all day long. We can argue about whether torts can become "addicted" to it all day long (although I do think this is a silly concept). I don't , however, think anyone can argue that the overwhelming majority of tortoises that eat Mazuri in a supplemental way are not exceedingly healthy and prolific.


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## dmmj (Feb 24, 2011)

My RF gets it once a week ( I am referring to the mazuri) my boxies get it twice a week, my others do not care for it.


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## HLogic (Feb 25, 2011)

Mazuri works for me at all levels..as a staple, as a supplement and as emergency rations. Allow me to explain...

My adults are maintained outside in reasonably large, ~225 mÂ² (~2000 ftÂ²) or ~450 mÂ² (~4000 ftÂ²), enclosures. It doesn't take long for a dozen or more animals to lay waste to all of the edible weeds, grasses, etc. in an area that size. Even broadcast seeding with additional edible weeds, veggies, etc. does not succeed in providing a sustainable in-situ food source. The animals are on a seek and destroy mission for any seedling that manages to lift its little head skywards.

I was spending around $40 every other day purchasing fresh foodstuffs from super and grower's markets. Most of the greens were acquired from the supermarkets. Fruits and vegetables were usually purchased at the grower's markets. What started as 6 bunches of collards @ $2.88 each became 8 bunches because of the reduction in size after gasoline prices went up a few years ago. Fruits and veggies by the half bushel or 25 pound box have maintained their prices more or less though vary considerably based on season.

A typical feeding would consist of 3 - 8 bunches of collards, 3 - 8 bunches of turnips, 3 - 8 bunches of kale and a box of fruits and veggies for the outside crew and six 2 pound bags of chopped greens for those inside.

Recently, I found a 'local' greens grower from whom I can purchase twice the quantity at half the price. Of course, this grower and any other bulk source is over 40 miles away. Walmart is only 22 miles! Yes, I live in the sticks... Needless to say, time and gasoline costs are considerations in the expense of these fresh food purchases.

Now, I am the first to chant the "fresh is best" mantra but there are constraints among which time and money are the biggest. It didn't take too long to realize the torts were eating more and better than I was!

The comment made by the person from whom I purchased the Red-footed clan and the Yellow-footed gang did not escape me but I chose to ignore it initially. That was, "You will need to locate a Mazuri dealer...". BAH! Fresh is best!!

Cutting to the chase... A 25 pound bag of Mazuri costs $20 - $22 and will feed all of the outdoor crew twice. Far too often, the supermarket does not have one or any of the cut bagged greens from which the staple of the indoor crew's diet is comprised. A cup or five of Mazuri makes up the difference for less than $3 - less than the cost of one bag of greens.  Picky eater? Moisten a little Mazuri with mango juice or a little mashed banana. If the animal is not already dead, it will likely eat!

With respect to growth, general health, breeding vigor and fecundity I have seen better overall productivity when Mazuri is included in the diet. The first few years the general egg production dropped markedly and is now slowly recovering. I have my suspicions the weather patterns in the last few years have a great deal to do with slowness of the recovery.

Is it addictive? No, not in the common sense of the word. It contains corn and corn has a mild sweetness to it. Much like the fat makes burgers 'addictive', that sweetness makes Mazuri the same. You might encounter 'withdrawal' symptoms (refusal of food) when offering customary foodstuffs to a tort that has grown accustomed to Mazuri but that will last only a few days until the tort is hungry.

I know why the "You will need to locate a Mazuri dealer..." statement was made. It was the sensible thing to do. Mazuri can be acquired through most outlets for Purina animal foods for those of you in need of quantity. It can be kept in or out of the bag without refrigeration for several months without issue. 

I am not advocating that anyone commit to a manufactured diet exclusively but I am stating it can be used by anyone in certain circumstances. I still feed a variety of fresh foods to my collection and at the same time have upgraded my diet from Ramen noodles to Hamburger Helper!!

On a different note...
Doc, would there be concerns about _A. niger_ and the potential of aspergillosis with the Chaffhaye, immunocompromised specimens not withstanding?


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## HarleyK (Feb 26, 2011)

CtTortoiseMom said:


> We keep our Mazuri in a large tupperware container in the fridge. Does anyone else refrigerate their mazuri? Is it necessary?



Is it necessary probably not, it may help though. Dr oz said we should keep vitamins jn tyr fridge


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## yagyujubei (Feb 27, 2011)

I have a 5 1/2" leopard that I've had for about a year. Some previous MBD and areas on the shell between the scutes that hadn't grown for years. About 5 months ago, I started her on mazuri. She has gained close to 300g, and areas where the natal scutes were touching since a hatchling are now growing. I'm convinced.


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## NEtorts (Feb 27, 2011)

thats great information!!! thanks to all of you


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## exoticsdr (Feb 27, 2011)

HLogic said:


> On a different note...
> Doc, would there be concerns about _A. niger_ and the potential of aspergillosis with the Chaffhaye, immunocompromised specimens not withstanding?



Not that I have heard of or read about. A. niger is not really one of the Aspergillus that is commonly diagnosed as a cause of aspergillosis, but as you know if you look long and hard enough, anything can be proven wrong. So far, so good on my critters...the ruminants are all getting fat and sassy and the torts all seem to make a b-line for the food pile every morning and cruise between the veggies, mazuri and Chaffhaye.


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## honu (Mar 24, 2011)

My tortoise likes it I heard it is a"Must have" from a tortoise seller...and great results so far!!!!


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## DocNezzy (Mar 25, 2011)

I started giving it to my 2 rescues. They were severely underweight. I almost have them back where they should be. I swear by the stuff and they love it now. I soak it and mix it with cactus mostly. They are too small to eat it dry, but that time will come I'm sure.


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## samstar (Mar 25, 2011)

My tortoises swear by it to


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## ONielsen (Mar 25, 2011)

Never used it and never will.

Note!

Crude protein not less than*.......................15.0% !!

Regards
Ole Nielsen
Med keeper/breeder




GBtortoises said:



Many people do not feed Mazuri as a staple, but feed it once or twice a week in addition to a staple diet of greens. Mazuri does have alot of questionable ingredients in it and according to the company's own ingredient values, 15% protein

Click to expand...

*


GBtortoises said:


> . I've only been using it for about two years, once a .....


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## Yvonne G (Mar 27, 2011)

ONielsen said:


> Never used it and never will.
> Regards
> Ole Nielsen
> Med keeper/breeder



Hi Ole:

Welcome to the forum!! May we know where you are?


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## DeanS (Mar 27, 2011)

Mazuri has gone from banned to absolute for my torts! I used to be a label reader...Zoo Med Grassland has EVERYTHING a sulcata or leopard needs...but then again so does the backyard! I gradually worked in the Mazuri...and I now feed it every other day! Aladar loves it...dry or moistened...and the babies simply devour it!


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## ChiKat (Mar 27, 2011)

I can understand feeding it occasionally as a supplement as some people have mentioned; as part of a balanced diet. And good point about being able to feed it if you run out of greens, are snowed in, etc. (although I keep frozen butternut squash and pumpkin for that reason...)
I still don't understand feeding it as a staple though...as some people have said, their torts get primarily Mazuri with "the occasional" spring mix?? Yikes.


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## Tom (Mar 27, 2011)

ONielsen said:


> Never used it and never will.
> 
> Note!
> 
> ...



Ole, I used to think exactly that way too. Time and experience have changed my mind. What is it about 15% protein that you think is so bad. Thousands upon thousands of people are feeding Mazuri to all species of torts and not one single person has reported any problems from it. Some people, like you, and me in the past, have a strong bias against it, but why? It works. It produces excellent growth and results. It causes no problems. I look at it as cheap insurance in case there are any minor nutrient deficiencies in all the other stuff I feed them.

Anyway, you are certainly entitled to your opinion and to feed your tortoises whatever you like. I'm just curious about why you feel so strongly about it.

Welcome to the forum.


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## Yvonne G (Mar 27, 2011)

Evidently the studies "they" did said the tortoises needed 15% protein in their diets. That's why it is mfg'd like it is. It doesn't make any difference where that protein comes from, whether from corn leaves, cactus leaves, turnip greens or Mazuri. Just like the corn syrup commercial says, "your body doesn't know if it comes from sugar or from corn syrup." Neither does the tortoise's body know or care where his plant protein comes from. All plants have protein.


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## ONielsen (Mar 27, 2011)

Thx for the warm welcome.

Tom:
Ive allways used weeds as food for my tortoises.
I do think I got experience myself ... at least enough to know Id never use a substitute socalled "complete thing" whatever that means and esp. when I look into the ingredients, its not what I would use. It was said in another forum that ingrediens could be the same as for cereal! ? 
Here in Europe its not common to use it and it seems it never will be that way. In Germany where there are "tons" of med. breeders... i got no knowledge of even one using it.
Im talking meds only !
But as I said before its up to everyone to decide whats they want to use for their tortoises.
I just dont like when it "sounds" like its Gods gift to tortoises.



I think the problem could be the ..AT LEAST 15 % !
could be 30%...50% ! who knows?
Apparently not the manufactor... otherwise they should be more precise.


Imho protein for meds should be fed as low as possible.
I think the meds requires different amounts of protein according to their age and the time of year. At least thats what I try to do and Im satisfied with what I see in my enclousures.





emysemys said:


> Evidently the studies "they" did said the tortoises needed 15% protein in their diets. That's why it is mfg'd like it is. It doesn't make any difference where that protein comes from, whether from corn leaves, cactus leaves, turnip greens or Mazuri. Just like the corn syrup commercial says, "your body doesn't know if it comes from sugar or from corn syrup." Neither does the tortoise's body know or care where his plant protein comes from. All plants have protein.


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## NEtorts (Mar 27, 2011)

I got a 2lb bag from a meber here on TFO....tried it a couple times, torts seem to like it alright but they always went for the greens and veggies first.....it kinda smells a bit.......also noticed it spoiled quickly after weting it......the torts knda walked through it and thats not to sanitary...


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## Tom (Mar 27, 2011)

NEtorts said:


> I got a 2lb bag from a meber here on TFO....tried it a couple times, torts seem to like it alright but they always went for the greens and veggies first.....it kinda smells a bit.......also noticed it spoiled quickly after weting it......the torts knda walked through it and thats not to sanitary...



Yeah, it can be messy. That is a drawback. I feed it to mine in the morning and then pull the trays and soak the torts after feeding on those days. Most days I soak first and then feed. After about 6 hours in the heat and humidity, I too noticed a funny smell from it, but now I just feed as much as I think they will eat and then pull the trays after a few hours. My roach colonies sure like any leftovers and they don't care how long it sits. 

Ole, I hear where you are coming from, and everything you said makes logical sense. I primarily use weeds and grasses too. I supplement with all sorts of other good stuff too, like mulberry, hibiscus, grape and rose of sharon leaves, spineless cactus, and several succulents.

Like you, this issue was very black and white for me. But I couldn't argue with the results I was seeing in other people's torts. I tried it myself, somewhat reluctantly, and now I can't argue with the positive results I see in my own herds.

I raised lots of healthy torts before I ever used Mazuri, so I completely agree with you that Mazuri is NOT necessary. I don't think its a complete diet or substitute for real weeds and greens either. I merely look at it as a means of giving my torts a "multi-vitamin". Like I said before. Cheap insurance.

Now I don't want to derail NETorts thread, but I'd love to see pics of YOUR torts and set ups. I'd really love to see how you do it in Denmark.


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## ONielsen (Mar 28, 2011)

Hi Tom
Glad to hear ... Im not the only one 
But I do know that it sometimes can be hard to find weeds enough, esp. in the spring.
I do use limited amount of some grass pellets in early spring , compressed thing from Germany and with high fiber and low protein.
Ill try find some pics and put them in the pic section somewhere.

EDIT pics posted now
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/Thread-my-hobby#axzz1HuMn4aXx





Tom said:


> NEtorts said:
> 
> 
> > I got a 2lb bag from a meber here on TFO....tried it a couple times, torts seem to like it alright but they always went for the greens and veggies first.....it kinda smells a bit.......also noticed it spoiled quickly after weting it......the torts knda walked through it and thats not to sanitary...
> ...


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## ALDABRAMAN (Mar 29, 2011)

ONielsen said:


> Never used it and never will.
> 
> Note!
> 
> ...



We never feed any of our hatchlings Mazuri and they grow healthy and smooth. Here is one that we held back almost a year.


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## gummybearpoop (Mar 29, 2011)

With or without mazuri I have had success. I prefer to use it as a supplement to make sure my tortoises are getting their vitamins/minerals. I feed over 50 different kinds of plants....maybe even over 75, so the mazuri isn't used all the time.

EJ has had success feeding strictly mazuri, but that doesn't seem like anything I want to do.


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## Madkins007 (Mar 30, 2011)

I am not so much worried about trying to talk people 'into' Mazuri or other prepared chows as I am trying to help people realize that it is a valid option. A lot of people argue against a lot of perfectly good food options- sometimes for no real reason.

Is Mazuri, etc. NEEDED in a diet? Heck no. If your tortoise has access to a good selection of foods, graze, etc. then you absolutely don't need it. 

Can Mazuri, etc. be a valuable part of a properly managed diet? Certainly! Especially for those of us with short summers or more limited access to a healthy variety of foods.


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## Tom (Mar 30, 2011)

Madkins007 said:


> I am not so much worried about trying to talk people 'into' Mazuri or other prepared chows as I am trying to help people realize that it is a valid option. A lot of people argue against a lot of perfectly good food options- sometimes for no real reason.
> 
> Is Mazuri, etc. NEEDED in a diet? Heck no. If your tortoise has access to a good selection of foods, graze, etc. then you absolutely don't need it.
> 
> Can Mazuri, etc. be a valuable part of a properly managed diet? Certainly! Especially for those of us with short summers or more limited access to a healthy variety of foods.



Very well written Mark. Great points. And to add to your thoughts there, those of us with really long summers can benefit from it too because all the graze dries up and withers away by about June here.


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## Greg Knoell (Mar 30, 2011)

Tom said:


> My roach colonies sure like any leftovers and they don't care how long it sits.





I donno Tom, I'd be leery feeding mazuri to your roach colonies...risky...probably way to high in protien, they don't eat manufactured pellets soaked in water normally in the wild... ...(JK) lol...couldn't help myself.

Consider this...many people use health shakes to supplement their diet and fitness regimen. They do this to be sure to receive enough of the nutrients their body needs...yet these shakes are not "natural" or made with a majority of natural ingredients. I'm sure there could be negative long term effects if I composed 90% of my diet with health shakes for a few years, perhaps diabetes or digestive issues among other problems...Now if I supplement 1 or 2 health shakes once a day for the rest of my life I actually might benefit long term from the surplus nutrients provided by these shakes. I consider mazuri to be equivalent of a health shake for my tortoises. They love it and by all of my accounts thrive when it is part of a balanced diet.


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## dmarcus (Mar 30, 2011)

I never heard of Mazuri until i found this site and I am always looking for new things to add to my torts diet. I think its good to have a varity in what they are eating. I had my local feed store order me some and I will find out soon if Vegas likes it.


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## ALDABRAMAN (Mar 30, 2011)

Madkins007 said:


> I am not so much worried about trying to talk people 'into' Mazuri or other prepared chows as I am trying to help people realize that it is a valid option. A lot of people argue against a lot of perfectly good food options- sometimes for no real reason.
> 
> Is Mazuri, etc. NEEDED in a diet? Heck no. If your tortoise has access to a good selection of foods, graze, etc. then you absolutely don't need it.
> 
> Can Mazuri, etc. be a valuable part of a properly managed diet? Certainly! Especially for those of us with short summers or more limited access to a healthy variety of foods.



Great position.


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## samstar (Mar 30, 2011)

The Zoos have been feeding torts with Mazuri for over 15 years already with no side effects, isn't that enough proof that it works well?


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## Tom (Mar 30, 2011)

Greg Knoell said:


> Tom said:
> 
> 
> > My roach colonies sure like any leftovers and they don't care how long it sits.
> ...





Your first paragraph made me laugh. I thought the second paragraph was a very good analogy. That pretty much sums up how I feel about it too.


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## HarleyK (Apr 1, 2011)

samstar said:


> The Zoos have been feeding torts with Mazuri for over 15 years already with no side effects, isn't that enough proof that it works well?



Yes, I was watching a documentary on green sea turtles (you may have seen it). At the sea turtle farms they were feeding them mazuri and squid! As soon as they packed on some weight they were released into the wild. In a way mazuri is helping to replenish the endangered populations....which makes sense because mazuri is known for quick growth rates.


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## ALDABRAMAN (Apr 1, 2011)

When we purchased one of our large male aldabras from a zoo (should not say where), they were feeding them onions and eggplant in old tires. Made me sick, I wish they would have fed Mazuri! (I actually have pictures of that day, probably should not post them)!


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## samstar (Apr 1, 2011)

ALDABRAMAN said:


> When we purchased one of our large male aldabras from a zoo (should not say where), they were feeding them onions and eggplant in old tires. Made me sick, I wish they would have fed Mazuri! (I actually have pictures of that day, probably should not post them)!



How do you feed torts onions? You serious?


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## ALDABRAMAN (Apr 1, 2011)

samstar said:


> ALDABRAMAN said:
> 
> 
> > When we purchased one of our large male aldabras from a zoo (should not say where), they were feeding them onions and eggplant in old tires. Made me sick, I wish they would have fed Mazuri! (I actually have pictures of that day, probably should not post them)!
> ...



Yes, We were so upset. When we arrived at our place, it was dark. The next day he browsed non stop, like he was in heaven! They housed them in pure sand, no grass at all and fed them in old truck tires. They had other things also, the onions and eggplant stood out! It has been m,any of years ago, now he is our biggest male and in heaven!


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## dmarcus (Apr 1, 2011)

ALDABRAMAN said:


> samstar said:
> 
> 
> > ALDABRAMAN said:
> ...



Wow, he is a very nice looking guy!!!


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## ALDABRAMAN (Apr 1, 2011)

dalano73 said:


> ALDABRAMAN said:
> 
> 
> > samstar said:
> ...



I had to add a third layer of 2x10x10's because he climber over and destroyed most of the areca palms! Well worth it, he is wonderful!


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## HarleyK (Apr 2, 2011)

I just noticed mazuri has their own banner ad on this forum....pretty cool. I clicked on it to support them


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## marinaresident (Jun 9, 2011)

Hi All,
I received my first order of 2lbs bag Mazuri yesterday from Gus/Cory. I was excited to serve it to Hemet and Murrieta to see if they would eat it. I soaked 2 pellets with warm water then spread it on top of a baby bokchoy leaf...boy, they ate almost all of it. Is one pellet of Mazuri every day with their greens for each hatchling (22 weeks old) too much? Or if I feed them twice a week, how many pellet should I be giving to each hatchling? Thanks in advance for your input. 

Marcel


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## samstar (Jun 9, 2011)

Feed them how much they can finish in 5-10 minutes, that's what I remember reading somewhere, please correct me if I'm wrong.


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## Ivyna J. Spyder (Jun 10, 2011)

I'm glad Mazuri is good for them, but I can't help but be frustrated at how addictive it is :\ During the winter when I was having trouble getting decent greens I started giving a few pellets a week to my baby redfoot and he loved it. But...

He used to clear his bowl of greens and veggies... now he barely touches them. -_- Even after a week of no Mazuri he will hold out for it. I've tried sprinkling powdered pellets over greens... he just nibbles it off the surface and barely touches the greens.

It sucks because I spent a lot of time planting fresh greens for him in my garden.  At least my other pets still eat them...


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## lynnedit (Jun 10, 2011)

Ivyna J. Spyder said:


> I'm glad Mazuri is good for them, but I can't help but be frustrated at how addictive it is :\ During the winter when I was having trouble getting decent greens I started giving a few pellets a week to my baby redfoot and he loved it. But...
> 
> He used to clear his bowl of greens and veggies... now he barely touches them. -_- Even after a week of no Mazuri he will hold out for it. I've tried sprinkling powdered pellets over greens... he just nibbles it off the surface and barely touches the greens.
> 
> It sucks because I spent a lot of time planting fresh greens for him in my garden.  At least my other pets still eat them...



When a tort becomes obsessed with one food, I have heard others suggest chopping the greens more finely, and mixing the food of choice (in this case, Mazuri, might work better if soaked first) up in it. That way they have to take a bite of both. Then gradually reducing the amount of the desired food as needed.


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## Camelot (Oct 8, 2011)

Tom said:


> I too never used to use it. I also found the ingredients list very un-impressive. However, an overwhelming number of top tortoise people swear by it and I've seen nothing but excellent results. I started using it almost a year ago, after several people recommended it, and I've had nothing but good results too.
> 
> I feed it about twice a week, soaked and mixed with greens.



Tom, this is my problem too. I just cringe when I see the high fat and protein content but so many others swear by it.

BUT why in the world would a Sulcata benefit in eating fat?

I'm about at my wit's ends however and am running out of ideas so I may be forced to try it.


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## Rustyiron (Nov 25, 2011)

samstar said:


> -Ej(Ed) has been feeding Mazuri to his torts for some 15 years already with excellent results.
> -The zoos have been feeding Mazuri with excellent results to for over 10 years.
> -My friend has been feeding Mazuri only for 4-5 years with good results, he said his torts are more active than ever.
> 
> Enough guys?




Can I feed them daily on Mazuri? Many people in my country told me feeding Mazuri daily will get too fat and cause pyramiding, is this true? thanks.


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## Madkins007 (Nov 25, 2011)

This is kind of up to you. There is little evidence that Mazuri cuses pyramiding if the amount and other cares are good. The Mazuri packaging tells you how to feed to avoid obesity or growth problems.

For more, see this article: http://www.tortoiseforum.org/Thread-Prepared-Tortoise-Diets-yes-or-no#axzz1emfrnQlX


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## Rustyiron (Nov 26, 2011)

Madkins007 said:


> This is kind of up to you. There is little evidence that Mazuri cuses pyramiding if the amount and other cares are good. The Mazuri packaging tells you how to feed to avoid obesity or growth problems.
> 
> For more, see this article: http://www.tortoiseforum.org/Thread-Prepared-Tortoise-Diets-yes-or-no#axzz1emfrnQlX




Oh, thank you so much!!!


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## samstar (Nov 26, 2011)

Madkins007 said:


> This is kind of up to you. There is little evidence that Mazuri cuses pyramiding if the amount and other cares are good. The Mazuri packaging tells you how to feed to avoid obesity or growth problems.
> 
> For more, see this article: http://www.tortoiseforum.org/Thread-Prepared-Tortoise-Diets-yes-or-no#axzz1emfrnQlX



thanks for the link, interesting


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## Redstrike (Nov 29, 2011)

I use it about once/month as a protein and vitamin supplement for my two cherryhead redfoot hatchlings.

I find Zoo Med's "Forest Tortoise" diet a bit more natural (mostly dried grasses, fruits, and a bit of fish protein) and use this about once every two weeks.


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## Katherine (Dec 4, 2011)

Hey guys I'm a brand new member but just wanted to share my experience with mauzuri! I have been feeding to my tortoises (sulcatas, leopards and Russians) once or twice a week for upwards of a decade and they are all incredibly healthy. I soak it before I feed them but never give more than they eat in a single siting as it spoils quickly. They get tons of fresh veggies, greens, and hay each day and are open to pasture grass most of the year so the mauzuri isn't their sole diet but they def get it regularly. They dont seem any worse for wear and occasionally if we have a sick hatchling or injured adult mauzuri will be the only thing I can entice them with! Overall I am very pleased with the food as long as it is being well supplemented and isn't being uses as the sole diet.


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