# Mazuri - The Miracle food?



## Blkjkoknhrt (Jan 11, 2015)

So if this is so good, how is it possible that oats, wheat and soy hulls (each NOT recommended as food) are good for my little friend as processed but not good as a naturally occurring food?
That's all that's in Mazuri,except for a long list of additives (to make up for the poor quality of ingredients?) Why can't a food based on dried vegetative matter be offered?

I'd be better off pulling weeds and using a quality vitamin and mineral supplement Besides, Munster won't eat it, except maybe by accident..

Comments?


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## Turtlepete (Jan 11, 2015)

I'm unaware of anyone calling it a miracle food. I've questioned how it can seem to have such good results with animals though, despite what would seem to be "bad" ingredients. I can personally say I've used it for maintaining my herd of adult reds for a while now. I also use it as about 30% of the diet for young red foots 3 months or older. I would say it promotes slightly faster growth, but there is no reason for that to be a concern. All in all, its cheap, easy to feed, the animals usually love it, and I get good results. I also use to for feeding Iguanas and _Cyclura_.


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## diamondbp (Jan 11, 2015)

I've had fantastic results with Hermanns , leopards, and sulcatas feeding mazuri as roughly 20-30% of a varied diet. I can't dive into the science behind it but it undoubtedly works for me. 
All of my leopards that eat mazuri grow at a much faster rate than the ones that don't .


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## Tom (Jan 11, 2015)

Here is my catch phrase on the matter: No one is impressed with the ingredients list, but everyone who uses it is impressed with the results.

I use it as a supplement once or twice a week. It was recommended to me by people who had been keeping tortoises much longer than I have.

It is certainly not necessary to feed any Mazuri at all. A tortoise can be raised just fine with out it, so your plan of using weeds instead will work just fine.


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## Tom (Jan 11, 2015)

Blkjkoknhrt said:


> Why can't a food based on dried vegetative matter be offered?



They have one. Its Called Mazuri LS and its based on grass hay. They made this specifically to address the concerns you raised. I've tried it and it has some applications where it would be useful, but for my purposes the old stuff works better.


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## WithLisa (Jan 11, 2015)

diamondbp said:


> All of my leopards that eat mazuri grow at a much faster rate than the ones that don't .


How do you know an unnatural fast growth rate is beneficial for them? I believe this can encourage MBD and other problems.


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## ZEROPILOT (Jan 12, 2015)

As many posts have stated, sometimes Mazuri can be so preferred by tortoises that they will refuse to eat anything else....and this can go on for weeks! I now feed some Mazuri with most feedings of my Red Foot tortoises at a ratio of about 20-25%. Wet, mashed and mixed in with whatever greenery is available that day from my garden. It is the one thing that all three of my torts will eat. Every time.


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## Dizisdalife (Jan 12, 2015)

I am not convinced that Mazuri produces an "unnaturally" fast growth rate. It stands to reason that a diet that is engineered to be nutritionally balanced would have advantages over one that is left to chance. A steadier, healthier growth rate might be one of these advantages. They could be consuming more foods because the Mazuri taste so good to them? That being said, few of us feed Mazuri exclusively. The percentage of the total diet that is Mazuri varies and usually is an estimate. So how do we know the impact that Mazuri is having on growth rate? And then there is the question of the role that genetics and environmental factors play in the growth rates. It all gets so confusing. Then, to add to the confusion, there is very little information on growth rates in the wild. I am speaking mainly of sulcata here. Almost nothing to compare what we see in captivity to at all.

I feel there are reasons to restrict the amount of Mazuri in my tortoises diet, but to curtail growth rate isn't one of them.


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## Tom (Jan 12, 2015)

WithLisa said:


> How do you know an unnatural fast growth rate is beneficial for them? I believe this can encourage MBD and other problems.



Likewise, how do you know the growth rate produced by feeding Mazuri is either unnatural or fast? Perhaps the growth rate you speak of is normal and growth rate without any Mazuri with our other unnatural foods (foods they would never see in the wild, like most of we we all feed and recommend...) produces an unnaturally slow growth rate.

Further, MBD is brought about by lack of sufficient calcium or D3. Growth rate is irrelevant, if Ca and D3 needs are met.

Lastly, these "other problems" that you are forewarning of simply do not occur. After 3 decades of millions of tortoises all over the world eating this stuff, don't you think we would have seen these "other problems"? We haven't.

Your points make sense on a logical level. The problem is that in the real world, in actual practice with living tortoises, the problems you foresee and are attempting to foretell do not materialize. Now I'm not saying that anything bad will happen if someone like yourself chooses to not feed any Mazuri ever. I'm not promoting Mazuri either. I'm just answering your questions and disputing some of your assertions about the product and its use. Here again we have a situation where someone with no experience in the matter is arguing with folks who have lots of experience in the matter. I have raised many tortoises with out any Mazuri at all. I have raised many tortoises with Mazuri. I know what it does and does not do. You on the other hand have no experience feeding this product and what it will or won't do. Everyone on this forum is entitled to an opinion. I just think it would be beneficial to anyone reading if asserted opinions actually had some basis in fact, experience or reality.

I used to be just like you. I used to lecture people not to feed fake food or man made phony concoctions. No prepared foods or pellets of any kind. Then over the years I had so many experienced and successful tortoise keepers explain to me why they fed Mazuri, and then show me the results from feeding it. I decided to have an open mind and give it a try. I'm glad I did. I learned something.

A person can invent any scenario in their mind they want, but the wise person will not ignore reality or dispute obviously positive results that are right in front of their face with hundreds or thousands of cases showing the same positive results.


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## WithLisa (Jan 12, 2015)

I don't have much experience, but I know Hermanns breeders that use those pellets. Their babys grow much faster than wild hatchlings, that's why I assume it's unnatural fast. 
Even though they have lots of calcium and sunshine, their shells feel different, not so strong and heavy than other tortoises of the same size, which were fed with only natural weeds (and which of course were much older because of the slower growth rate).

Maybe there are no long-term effects, I don't know. But in my opinion it's best to keep tortoises as natural as possible.


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## ZEROPILOT (Jan 12, 2015)

I attribute my accelerated growth rate (If it is indeed accelerated) to my climate and its temperature and humidity. We could compare sizes and weights of known age tortoises from different places fed different diets. That should be relatively easy to do.


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## FLINTUS (Jan 12, 2015)

To make a sweeping generalisation, from the (few) studies done on their wild counterparts, captive tortoises grow faster, and reach maturity earlier. 
Is this good? Up to you to decide, not the point of the thread, but growth rates can cause problems with shell density if a slight bit of care is 'off'. In captivity, debatedly we provide tortoises with 'ideal' conditions, which is why they grow faster than in the wild i.e. more food, consistent thriving temperatures and humidity etc., but then again, should a human always have access to this, and as a result, become overweight?
I do feed mazuri, about 1-2 times a fortnight, I also sell it as it's hard to get hold of in the UK, but it does increase growth rates due to more calories than the standard captive diet, and therefore I make sure my care is perfect a few days after feeding mazuri, in the same way I do for protein days. I also only feed 5 days a week or so, if they're hungry then they can eat the plants in the enclosure, but this rarely happens. I would say that we should monitor the growth rates of tortoises in captivity, but not obsess over it.


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## Blkjkoknhrt (Jan 13, 2015)

Thanks to all you contributors for taking the time to opine and educate myself. I am totally inexperienced in torty-hood and meant nothing by my Miracle food comment. I was referring more to its rep as one of the best out there.
Here's a pic of

my little Munster with some greens and Mazuri


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## stojanovski92113 (Jan 14, 2015)

I refused to feed my tortoises pellet food until like 2013. I started off on the grassland pellets. Only because I thought it was no good for them in regards to their overall health, just crap food. However, I've had my first tortoise since the summer of '08, so s/he missed out on mazuri for all those years, but has done just fine on the flowers, leaves, protein, veggies & fruit. It's the keepers personal preference, but I wanted to try the mazuri for my tortoises. Why not after all this time. I will say my tortoises are thanking me


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## Heather B (Jan 28, 2015)

OK folks. I'm a little confused. The breeder that I purchased my second Redfoot from swears by Mazuri and I agree they (my two) Love it but I was nervous about it because of the grains in it. Just checking - you all have had long-term success with the stuff? If so, I would be happy to go back to using it. As I said, they really like it. I also mixed warmed mixed veggies into it. How often? They are both over two


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## Tom (Jan 28, 2015)

Heather B said:


> OK folks. I'm a little confused. The breeder that I purchased my second Redfoot from swears by Mazuri and I agree they (my two) Love it but I was nervous about it because of the grains in it. Just checking - you all have had long-term success with the stuff? If so, I would be happy to go back to using it. As I said, they really like it. I also mixed warmed mixed veggies into it. How often? They are both over two



To be clear: I have seen nothing but positive results from everyone who feeds it. I've never seen it be a problem for anyone, with any species, in any situation.

Having said that, you still don't NEED it. Your tortoises can be fed other things and be just fine.


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## Heather B (Jan 28, 2015)

Tom said:


> To be clear: I have seen nothing but positive results from everyone who feeds it. I've never seen it be a problem for anyone, with any species, in any situation.
> 
> Having said that, you still don't NEED it. Your tortoises can be fed other things and be just fine.


Awesome! But how often is recommended?


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## Jacqui (Jan 28, 2015)

My major issue with it is the things it lacks... the process the tortoise was designed to do to get it's food. There is no ripping or tearing of the food. No reaching up to get that leaf. No natural grazing. No reason to walk around and find his food. No mental stimulation. I have no problem with it, if used as a part of the diet, like any other food item. I myself use it every so often and always make sure I have some on hand incase for whatever reason I can't get enough fresh foods for my guys (ie like a winter snow storm)


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## Heather B (Jan 28, 2015)

I understand. Mush is not too challenging to put away. Kind of like me and mashed potatoes


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## Tom (Jan 28, 2015)

Heather B said:


> Awesome! But how often is recommended?



This varies. I like twice a week for babies. Once every week or two for adults. Twice a week for egg producing females during the egg laying season. Less for a russian, more for a sulcata, etc...


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## Tom (Jan 28, 2015)

Jacqui said:


> My major issue with it is the things it lacks... the process the tortoise was designed to do to get it's food. There is no ripping or tearing of the food. No reaching up to get that leaf. No natural grazing. No reason to walk around and find his food. No mental stimulation. I have no problem with it, if used as a part of the diet, like any other food item. I myself use it every so often and always make sure I have some on hand incase for whatever reason I can't get enough fresh foods for my guys (ie like a winter snow storm)



Don't forget that one of the dietary mainstays for at least some species in the wild is mammal feces. I speculate that this is why so many tortoises like this stuff so much. When soaked it closely resembles a pile of poo both in texture and smell. The first time I saw Mazuri it reminded me of all those years of changing chimp and orangutan diapers.

We agree that its not a good thing to feed every day and they they also need the leaves and grazing you mentioned.

Like that Ms. J? We _agree_. That sure was nice.


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## Heather B (Jan 28, 2015)

Tom said:


> This varies. I like twice a week for babies. Once every week or two for adults. Twice a week for egg producing females during the egg laying season. Less for a russian, more for a sulcata, etc...


thanks Tom that really helps.


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## Jacqui (Jan 30, 2015)

I personally dislike the mushy mess it makes. It sticks to my hands when I feed it (or to a spoon if I actually use one), sticks to their faces, and what isn't eaten is normally made into a flatten mass, which once it dries is a pain to remove. Atleast with greens/grass/weeds/bloom, whatever isn't eaten at his meal, might be eaten even once it dries out.

I find it interesting among my tortoises which of the different species really like it and which ones over all do not like it. My hingebacks don't care much for it (unless I mix it as a banana mush mixture), but the sulcatas, leopards, redfoots/cherryheads, all love it (except my young redfoots/cherryheads) and act like it is candy.


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## Jacqui (Jan 30, 2015)

Tom said:


> Like that Ms. J? We _agree_. That sure was nice.



So were good for the rest of the year now?


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## FLINTUS (Jan 30, 2015)

Jacqui said:


> I find it interesting among my tortoises which of the different species really like it and which ones over all do not like it. My hingebacks don't care much for it (unless I mix it as a banana mush mixture), but the sulcatas, leopards, redfoots/cherryheads, all love it (except my young redfoots/cherryheads) and act like it is candy.


WC vs CB?


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## Turtlepete (Jan 30, 2015)

Heather B said:


> OK folks. I'm a little confused. The breeder that I purchased my second Redfoot from swears by Mazuri and I agree they (my two) Love it but I was nervous about it because of the grains in it. Just checking - you all have had long-term success with the stuff? If so, I would be happy to go back to using it. As I said, they really like it. I also mixed warmed mixed veggies into it. How often? They are both over two



My young reds get it moistened, ground up and mixed into their salad's every other day. The adults get a whole bowl of it along with veggies and greens at every feeding. I have a female I hatched that's coming into maturity this year that was raised on this diet. She is the smoothest red I have (besides a WC female), and has actually had a very steady growth rate, not too quick at all. Believe she is 8 (bad memory and lack of writing dates back then) this August, and at about 10". Some red's have reached that size in half the time. So, having her diet made up of 30-40% of Mazuri didn't accelerate the growth on that particular animal. I believe it may accelerate growth slightly in hatchlings and yearlings, though.


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## Jacqui (Jan 30, 2015)

FLINTUS said:


> WC vs CB?



My babies eat it better then the WC adults. Still not like the stampeding sulcatas going for it. lol


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## Heather B (Jan 30, 2015)

That's great to hear about the Mazuri diet. Combined with the higher humidity, I hope to see smoother shells soon.


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## Heather H (Jan 30, 2015)

So what one is better for testudo type of tort? The regular or the ls


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## Turtlepete (Jan 30, 2015)

Heather Hilliard said:


> So what one is better for testudo type of tort? The regular or the ls



Speculating, not based on any experience with it, I'd say the LS diet would be better for testudo since it has more real, fibrous grasses and I believe lacks the molasses.


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## Heather H (Jan 30, 2015)

Turtlepete said:


> Speculating, not based on any experience with it, I'd say the LS diet would be better for testudo since it has more real, fibrous grasses and I believe lacks the molasses.


thank you


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## seiff (Jan 30, 2015)

Great! Thanks @Tom for the tidbit about torts eating mammal poop... didn't really want to know that, you needed to put "Spoiler Alert" first...


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## Heather H (Jan 30, 2015)

Mazuri ordered. 12 ounce $8 on amazon


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## FujiBaird (Jan 30, 2015)

Heather Hilliard said:


> thank you



My juvenile hermann's has zero interest in the LS but loves regular Mazuri. It may have something to do with the texture (the LS is drier, even after soaking) or my tortoise's young age. Your experience my vary based on your specific tort, so it might be worth trying both.  I am now mixing a little of the LS into the regular to try to acclimate my tortoise to it... or at least to make me feel like the bag of LS isn't going to waste. 

I like it because the mushy texture makes it easy to incorporate vitamin/calcium powder or anything else you want to add to your tortoise's diet. I serve it on an edible leaf to cut down on the mess. However, I can't comment on long-term use... only that my tortoise goes crazy for it.

Here she is, ignoring the LS pellet under her chest and chowing down on the regular...


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## Tom (Jan 30, 2015)

seiff said:


> Great! Thanks @Tom for the tidbit about torts eating mammal poop... didn't really want to know that, you needed to put "Spoiler Alert" first...



Hey... Its what I do.


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## naturalman91 (Jan 31, 2015)

Heather Hilliard said:


> Mazuri ordered. 12 ounce $8 on amazon



you could have gone to a sponsor of the forum tortoisesupply.com and gotten like 2 pounds for 9 dollars.


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## Heather B (Jan 31, 2015)

naturalman91 said:


> you could have gone to a sponsor of the forum tortoisesupply.com and gotten like 2 pounds for 9 dollars.


I didn't think of that. Went with the 25lb bag for $30 b/c of the bargain from the Mazuri website. Will share it with friends that have reptiles.


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## Heather H (Jan 31, 2015)

naturalman91 said:


> you could have gone to a sponsor of the forum tortoisesupply.com and gotten like 2 pounds for 9 dollars.


I will later when I get a tort and know they like it  .


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## jskahn (Jan 31, 2015)

Before I used Mazuri, I used Pretty Pets tortoise diet. It worked well for years, but it was hard for me to buy. I switched to Mazuri, when it came out. I feed it as the main part of all my tortoises diet.It is not at all their complete diet, but a large part of it. I have successfully raised 3 generations of Greeks, and Many, many, other tortoises on it.On it, I never had a pyramid problem. I also feed Mazuri Omnivore diet to species, like Red Foots, who could use more protein. I even use the omnivore, crushed up, on my lizards food.


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## leigti (Jan 31, 2015)

I don't like the idea of processed food for any of my animals. My dog and cats eat raw food. But I am definitely not a purist on this idea. Once in a while they get canned food. But I did buy 1 pound of the new mazuri for my Russian tortoise. It doesn't dissolve well in water so I ground it up and then added water to it and mixed it in with the greens. My tortoise likes it okay. I probably wouldn't feed it more than once a week at the most. I consider it as part of a varied diet. My tortoises an adult and so as far as the growth issues etc. go I really have no comment. I do not feel that I would be comfortable feeding it as a major part of their diet however. From the experience of many many tortoise keepers over the years, there doesn't seem to be any ill effects if it occasionally. and although I haven't heard of any of the facts when fed as the majority of the diet I just personally wouldn't do it. That is just my opinion on how I would care for my animals though.


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