# Dark Adonis



## Anyfoot (Aug 28, 2016)

The last egg and only fertile egg from a clutch of 7.
182 days of incubation. 

Looks like another dark one.

This female laid 3 clutches of 6 , 7 and 7. Only 1 egg was fertile from each clutch. Does this mean she is a young female?


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## wellington (Aug 28, 2016)

My female leopard of a young age of 5 years laid 4 clutches last year of 6-9 eggs. Out of all of them, I got one live hatch and one that died before it ever hatched. All the other eggs were either duds or went bad. I'm figuring either too young of a female and/or male which is of same age as female.


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## Anyfoot (Aug 28, 2016)

I read that as they age fertility % increases, but I also read somewhere that as they reach a grand old age the fertility decreases again.


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## Yvonne G (Aug 28, 2016)

Aw. Lucky you.


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## Anyfoot (Aug 28, 2016)

I'll just sit here for a while. Bone idle. 
Ive seen him rotate in the eggshell so he's free but chooses to stay put. I wonder if when they naturally hatch they just sit in the egg until the yolk is absorbed then ascend to the surface. 
Thinking about it they must do or they could puncture the eggsack.


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## juli11 (Aug 29, 2016)

Beautiful hatchling!


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## Julie M (Aug 29, 2016)

He is beautiful, I love the really dark colouring, hope he stays that way.


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## allegraf (Aug 29, 2016)

I'm a sucker for the off colored ones. This one fits the bill. There seems to be an almost total lack of of pigment with that one. It isn't like the weak colored ones (which deserve love too!) but truly a unique baby. Kudos. I would totally raise and breed this one.

Had to edit, cause I read your post, instead of just looking at the pictures. First time breeders, in my experience throw very unusual babies. rambutans first clutch threw all yellow babies. Wish I kept those! Fertility rate was low as well. 20-30% hatch rate, plus there were some squashed by mom eggs. By the second year, viability increased significantly and their colors started to lean towards orange, less cracked eggs. By year three, she was on a roll.


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## Anyfoot (Aug 30, 2016)

Well s/he's out. Weighing in at 20g. Extremely dark. Almost no color at all.


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## MPRC (Aug 30, 2016)

Beautiful baby, more photos!


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## naturalman91 (Aug 31, 2016)

i just saw this thread but very beautiful tort i love dark red's there's one someone here own's thats pretty much pitch black


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## MPRC (Aug 31, 2016)

My boyfriend says you should name him Toothless.


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## itiswhatitis (Aug 31, 2016)

Looks So Sweet !!!!


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## Anyfoot (Aug 31, 2016)

LaDukePhoto said:


> My boyfriend says you should name him Toothless.


Ha, I shall put your suggestion forward. Kids pick names. Think this one is Darth up to now.


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## Anyfoot (Sep 1, 2016)

George looks on whilst princess is preparing her nest. This is the mother that produced this dark Adonis.


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## Anyfoot (Sep 2, 2016)

Is it me or does this one look extremely fat.


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## Anyfoot (Sep 2, 2016)

BTW this torts name so I'm told is Sirius.


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## allegraf (Sep 3, 2016)

I love the name! That is amazing how little color he has. He does seems bit swollen. I haven't had this issue before. @cdmay? Sirius looks like he put on an outfit that is several sizes too small! Adorable.


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## Anyfoot (Sep 3, 2016)

allegraf said:


> I love the name! That is amazing how little color he has. He does seems bit swollen. I haven't had this issue before. @cdmay? Sirius looks like he put on an outfit that is several sizes too small! Adorable.


 You can see on the leg scales there is 2 different blacks. I'm wondering if the lighter black scales are what would normally be reds,yellows and oranges.


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## N2TORTS (Sep 3, 2016)

Very Nice ! .......Love the color~


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## allegraf (Sep 3, 2016)

The larger scales would likely be the ones that should have color. Very nice!


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## cdmay (Sep 3, 2016)

I have this happen before. Looks like a 'runt' that or one that started to hatch prematurely, hence the oversized yolk-sac. For whatever reason, the ones like this I've produced similarly had very little color and also tended to show the unusual edema around the neck and limbs. 
Keep him warm, moist and disturb as little as possible.


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## Anyfoot (Sep 4, 2016)

cdmay said:


> I have this happen before. Looks like a 'runt' that or one that started to hatch prematurely, hence the oversized yolk-sac. For whatever reason, the ones like this I've produced similarly had very little color and also tended to show the unusual edema around the neck and limbs.
> Keep him warm, moist and disturb as little as possible.


 Dont know why but I wasn't notified of these last 2 posts. 
His eggsack has all but gone, not healed though. Still a right fat tort. 
I put a dandilion leaf in the brooder, he's eaten some. Should I leave him in the brooder for longer to see if the swelling goes down? And should I really be offering food as he's already obese?


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## Pearly (Sep 4, 2016)

Anyfoot said:


> Is it me or does this one look extremely fat.
> View attachment 185629
> View attachment 185630
> View attachment 185631


Another "dark mocha" baby!!!!! Love it!!!! She looks either very pudgy or swollen??? I've never seen a baby right after hatching, does this tend to happen? I.e. Either more fat stores to get them through infancy, or extra water stored in tissues? Very interesting


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## cdmay (Sep 4, 2016)

*His eggsack has all but gone, not healed though. Still a right fat tort.*

That's what I thought would be the case. I'm fairly sure he/she will be fine from this point forward. Go ahead and offer food sparingly and keep warm and moist. 
Here is one similar to yours (in color) that I produced some years ago.






This is another dark 'runt' I produced...Does this oversized yolk-sac opening look familiar? 





Front view





Eventually, the opening closed over and appeared mostly normal.

Anyfoot, I'm am NOT saying that this is what you've produced. But just that these are a couple of little guys that hatched here over the years that were rather dark, had oversized yolk-sacs and were generally smaller that others.


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## Anyfoot (Sep 4, 2016)

cdmay said:


> *His eggsack has all but gone, not healed though. Still a right fat tort.*
> 
> That's what I thought would be the case. I'm fairly sure he/she will be fine from this point forward. Go ahead and offer food sparingly and keep warm and moist.
> Here is one similar to yours (in color) that I produced some years ago.
> ...


Thank you, at least it gives me hope, I'm a bit concerned for this one. Did any of these in your photos show coloring later as they grew.


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## Anyfoot (Sep 4, 2016)

This is a shot I've just took. 
This morning when you looked at him from the side his plastron looked convex. He looked like a rugby ball shape. Hold on, hold on, let me rephrase that. He looked like an American football ball shape. 
Now the plastron seems to have flattened out.


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## Anyfoot (Sep 4, 2016)

Pearly said:


> Another "dark mocha" baby!!!!! Love it!!!! She looks either very pudgy or swollen??? I've never seen a baby right after hatching, does this tend to happen? I.e. Either more fat stores to get them through infancy, or extra water stored in tissues? Very interesting


Not sure pearls. I've only hatched 3 redfoots myself, so much to learn. The first one I hatched was dark and slightly swollen, remember that was the one that died at 37g for some reason. This one is even darker and more swollen. Not saying anything bad is going to happen, but it's there in the back of my mind. Time will tell. Fingers crossed.


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## Pearly (Sep 4, 2016)

Anyfoot said:


> Not sure pearls. I've only hatched 3 redfoots myself, so much to learn. The first one I hatched was dark and slightly swollen, remember that was the one that died at 37g for some reason. This one is even darker and more swollen. Not saying anything bad is going to happen, but it's there in the back of my mind. Time will tell. Fingers crossed.


I'd keep the record of weights. "Puffy plastron" concerns me but the fact that's being corrected now is good. I wonder if any of our medical people have had any experience with swelling/fluid overload in pre and immediate post hatching stages. If this baby ends up growing into a healthy adult, I'll tell you this dark moccha coloration is AWESOME!!!! I'd try to foster procreation of those genes. Just love those dark babies!


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## Gillian M (Sep 4, 2016)

Anyfoot said:


> I'll just sit here for a while. Bone idle.
> Ive seen him rotate in the eggshell so he's free but chooses to stay put. I wonder if when they naturally hatch they just sit in the egg until the yolk is absorbed then ascend to the surface.
> Thinking about it they must do or they could puncture the eggsack.
> View attachment 185080


Adorable!


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## Gillian M (Sep 4, 2016)

Anyfoot said:


> Well s/he's out. Weighing in at 20g. Extremely dark. Almost no color at all.
> View attachment 185269


So cute!


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## Anyfoot (Sep 6, 2016)

This guys swelling seems to have gone down a lot now, he's getting fiesty too, hissing and ramming me. So into the big wide world with Boris. Boris is 15wks old now, hoping they will be ok, I'll keep a close eye on them. He had a sniff and inspection of Sirius then went on his way. 
BTW, Sirius has not all of a sudden developed a yellow head, the stupid sod went to sleep with his head in a flower head I put in the brooder box yesterday.


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## MPRC (Sep 6, 2016)

He's so cute and tiny.


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## Anyfoot (Sep 13, 2016)

Well Sirius has lost his fatty look, feeding and pooping as normal. Heres a video of the little chap, and of course Boris had to take over the show again, not shy one bit. Has anyone else got a tort with white toenails, Boris's back toenails are white.


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## allegraf (Sep 13, 2016)

Can you ship to the states? I would totally trade you one of my extreme colorful ones for dear Sirius. Or better yet move to Florida and bring your family and torts!


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## Pearly (Sep 13, 2016)

allegraf said:


> Can you ship to the states? I would totally trade you one of my extreme colorful ones for dear Sirius. Or better yet move to Florida and bring your family and torts!


Or to Texas


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## a5fung (Sep 13, 2016)

The little one's color looks amazing!


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## Anyfoot (Oct 17, 2016)

Just a quick update on Sirius. He's weighing in at 33g, and although he's the smaller younger tort, I think he's the dominant one. 1st photo shows him trying to eat Boris's mushroom even though he has is own. 
He doesn't seem to be getting any color on the limbs either.


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## Anyfoot (Oct 25, 2016)

Dawn says I'm paranoid about this particular Tortoise. 
Dont know if you remember but I had a very dark hatchling like this die at 37g. This one is even darker and tbh it makes me feel uncomfortable. It's 8wks old now, gone from 20g to 35g. It's lively and eats well, everything seems normal, just like the one I had that died. 
I'm convinced it's not producing enough keratin to fill in the crevices(is that possible), it just does not look to me like it's growing correctly. It's a well hydrated tort, gets soaks, humid etc. 
This guy has had no animal protein as of yet.
Thoughts please.


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## cdmay (Oct 26, 2016)

It has a lot of growth going on quickly so the scute seems appear 'stretched'. Try and grow him slowly with good food items, good lighting and high humidity.
That's really all you can do. 
I'll say this also---that will be an almost solid black adult! Very cool.


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## Anyfoot (Oct 26, 2016)

cdmay said:


> It has a lot of growth going on quickly so the scute seems appear 'stretched'. Try and grow him slowly with good food items, good lighting and high humidity.
> That's really all you can do.
> I'll say this also---that will be an almost solid black adult! Very cool.


 Thanks Carl, I'll slow it down a tad. 
I wanted to ask you about protein, at what stage do you start feeding animal protein, this little guy had none yet. 
Im not 100% sure but need to ask, I thought keratin growth was basically through protein, is that correct? I know there is protein in foliage too, so does what is happening to this tort prove I have an inbalance between fruit and foliage ratio?


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## Anyfoot (Oct 26, 2016)

Anyfoot said:


> Thanks Carl, I'll slow it down a tad.
> I wanted to ask you about protein, at what stage do you start feeding animal protein, this little guy had none yet.
> Im not 100% sure but need to ask, I thought keratin growth was basically through protein, is that correct? I know there is protein in foliage too, so does what is happening to this tort prove I have an inbalance between fruit and foliage ratio?


Just wanted to add also I've fed quite a lot of flower heads too, primrose plants gone mad with blooming. Am I correct in saying flower heads lack protein, they will always favor flowers over the foliage. The only foliage I've fed are weeds,grape leaves and hibiscus leaves. 
This one below is about 14wks now and coming up to the 90g mark. Exact same enclosure,humid etc. But no flowers for its first 8wks or so, I think she looks good. 
Have I been inadvertently lacking in protein with the Adonis because they favor the flowers over weeds. So lack of protein has slowed down keratin growth but not bone growth. Or am I way off the mark with this thought. 
I know I'm being picky here, but need to be.


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## cdmay (Oct 26, 2016)

Don't panic.
Flowers, mushrooms and young greens are great for little ones.
As for protein, go easy.
The idea that red foot tortoises 'need' protein from the get go is highly overblown.
Also , I'm pretty sure that keratin comes from calcium, not protein. 
Could be wrong though.


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## cdmay (Oct 26, 2016)

cdmay said:


> Don't panic.
> Flowers, mushrooms and young greens are great for little ones.
> As for protein, go easy.
> The idea that red foot tortoises 'need' protein from the get go is highly overblown.
> ...



I AM WRONG!
Keratin is a 'structural protein'. 
You were right Anyfoot.


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## Anyfoot (Nov 11, 2016)

@cdmay. This little dark guy just seems to be growing wierd. It's a well hydrated tort and I don't feed it crap. It's active and eats but it's new growth just does not look right, it looks as if the keratin is not keeping up with growth, I know you mentioned maybe growing too fast. It's coming up to 11wks(74days) old now and weighs 38g(1.34oz). Hatched at 20g(0.71oz). Does that seem like fast growth to you? 
Not panicking here, just curious if you think this growth rate is too fast. 

I've given it some protein today for the first time (1 piece of cat meat).


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## cdmay (Nov 11, 2016)

Anyfoot said:


> @cdmay. This little dark guy just seems to be growing wierd. It's a well hydrated tort and I don't feed it crap. It's active and eats but it's new growth just does not look right, it looks as if the keratin is not keeping up with growth, I know you mentioned maybe growing too fast. It's coming up to 11wks(74days) old now and weighs 38g(1.34oz). Hatched at 20g(0.71oz). Does that seem like fast growth to you?
> Not panicking here, just curious if you think this growth rate is too fast.
> 
> I've given it some protein today for the first time (1 piece of cat meat).



Cat meat??? Really? 
Wow, I've never considered offering cat meat before. I'll have to look for it at the grocery store.


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## Anyfoot (Nov 11, 2016)

cdmay said:


> Cat meat??? Really?
> Wow, I've never considered offering cat meat before. I'll have to look for it at the grocery store.


 Ha, new you would comment on that. Dont worry I normally feed worms to my torts, but he was out feeding so I gave him a piece of cat meat for convenience, too dark to raid the wormery. 
I've noticed on this guy even his marginal scutes look to have wide crevices between scutes, which suggests fast growth too, I keep thinking maybe I fed too much fruit in the early days, but my other tort looks perfect with exact same diet agenda. So then I'm thinking is there just something not right with this tort, is that why it's so unnaturally dark. Time will tell.


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## Anyfoot (May 12, 2017)

The fact my first every hatchlings was very dark and suddenly died at around 3 months old has made me very dubious about tortoises that lack color. 
This dark tortoise is now about 9 months old and is growing so slow. Infact the last few months he seems to have had a growing spurt and still only ways 99 grams. My hatchlings at 7 months old are about 160 grams. 
I have 11 hatchlings living together, all with exact same care and all growing smooth except this one. It's driving me mad. It's very active and eats a lot just like the others. Nothing seems abnormal with behavior, but it just won't grow at any pace and it's not smooth. 
Has anyone else ever had a tortoise that no matter what it doesn't seem to be growing at the correct pace and won't grow smooth? 

Some photos below, I've dried him off so purposely showing him at his worst. Actually the photos make him look worse than in real life. Does anyone have any experience with a similar situation. Take note he doesn't show any color at all on his limbs and very little on the head, is there a genetic problem going on here. All 11 torts are from the same mother but from 3 different clutches. 
If I'm honest I've been expecting one morning to find this little guy passed. Like I said he seems to be going through a growing spurt all of a sudden. 2 months back he was literally half size the others.


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## Pearly (May 13, 2017)

Awww Craig, he is a cutie!!!!!don't give up on him! He may yet surprise you like Tucker did me


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## Anyfoot (Sep 4, 2017)

Well Sirius the one that hatched with no color is 12 months old now. He's growing extremely slow, my 5 month olds are as big as he is, although Siriuses limbs are beefier. Seems to be fit and healthy, just growing slow and not smooth. Some today's photos of him.


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## MPRC (Sep 4, 2017)

He does still look like a hatching, interesting.


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## William Lee Kohler (Sep 9, 2017)

Anyfoot said:


> You can see on the leg scales there is 2 different blacks. I'm wondering if the lighter black scales are what would normally be reds,yellows and oranges.



Was going to comment same as I think this too. Interesting all black leg scales like a Galap.


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## seanang168 (Oct 8, 2017)

Darth Vader!


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## Cheryl Hills (Oct 31, 2017)

He is still a cutie!


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## William Lee Kohler (Nov 1, 2017)

Anyfoot said:


> Not sure pearls. I've only hatched 3 redfoots myself, so much to learn. The first one I hatched was dark and slightly swollen, remember that was the one that died at 37g for some reason. This one is even darker and more swollen. Not saying anything bad is going to happen, but it's there in the back of my mind. Time will tell. Fingers crossed.



Here's a thought. If your little one decided to stay in the shell longer than normal his shell top and bottom started to harden in the round shape that they have while in the egg shell. Does this sound logical? Could this be supported by the curl under of his rear shell conforming to the curve of the eggshell?


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## Anyfoot (Nov 1, 2017)

I hear what your saying William, I've been down the same thought process. Thing is they all hatch out soft and flexible to allow to be curled up in the egg. 
I often wonder if our incubation methods have an impact on how they grow.


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## William Lee Kohler (Nov 1, 2017)

Did you notice if his shell was any harder than most others you have in the beginning. Even if it had only started to stiffen it could be all the difference in plastral and shell shape. I see he's elongating ok. Has his bottom flattened out? I have a strong feeling that his lack of red pigment is linked to his slow growth and possibly adult size as well. Maybe this one could be the father or mother of a midget race. As for smoothness I strongly feel you should try plenty of UVB 10 lighting even if he doesn't sit out in the open. It's helped smooth out pyramiding on my 3 adults even if they'll never really be smooth. I don't have a working digital camera and don't use crap cell phones either or could show.


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## Anyfoot (Nov 1, 2017)

Tbh I didn't notice if he was any less supple or not. Most of my torts hatch out at around 120 days. I had one hatch at 103. Why this one was 182 days is a mystery. 
The plastron is flat put has deep crevices between the scutes. I'll get some photos on Friday when I'm back home. 

I have a 4ft 5.0 uvb set at about 9" above the feeding area. This is on for 14hrs a day. 

Ps. You need to join the 21st century and get a cell phone. If my dad can get with it then you can too.


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## William Lee Kohler (Nov 2, 2017)

That's good lighting and what I used before the newer ones came out. I DESPISE cell phones. The world and all of us were better off before they became the new toy.


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## Anyfoot (Feb 10, 2018)

This guy is still not growing much. At 19 months old he only weighs in at 175g. All my others of this age are around the 400g mark. 
Active, eats well, I soak every other day still, but just not growing.


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## William Lee Kohler (Feb 12, 2018)

REALLY really puzzles me with all the right things you do and have in habitat why this one or any other have this pyramiding? The color's funny as does not appear as any form of albinism with yellow nose and some yellow color but just a predominance of black apparently linked to "dwarfism". However some years down the road he could be like a Liger and lack the gene to stop growing and become an eventual giant. Just so glad to see he's really doing well.


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