# New tortoise owner, help please, red swollen sores



## irohthetortoise (Jun 6, 2018)

My girlfriend and I just got our boy Iroh 4-5 days ago. I already made another post about him not adjusting well/not eating at all. We got help on that and we are soaking him in warm water daily and changed up his diet to a store bought spring mix and we are going to start collecting natural weeds and plants. Anyway the problem we just noticed now is that he has some red sores that are swollen around his head/neck area. We have tried looking around but haven't found too much info so here I am posting pics hoping to get some help. We got him from a Petsmart (now knowing to never do that again from stories that I've heard) and they mentioned a 14 day warranty when I called them about the sores, but I really do not want to return him. We have grown attached and want to do everything we can for Iroh. PLEASE HELP!

ALSO
probably just me worrying more but how do you guys think his shell looks?


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## Destben (Jun 6, 2018)

Take him to the vet it could be some sort of staff infection.


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## Melis (Jun 6, 2018)

Those sores as well as his eyes do not look good 

Let’s see if we can get you some help @Yvonne G


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## irohthetortoise (Jun 6, 2018)

Melis said:


> Those sores as well as his eyes do not look good
> 
> Let’s see if we can get you some help @Yvonne G


yes please  im quite worried


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## katieandiggy (Jun 6, 2018)

His shell looks dry but that can just be from the way he was previously kept other than that the shell looks ok to me.

Those sores on the other hand look very painful and may be the reason it’s not eating. @Yvonne G will be able to help.


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## katieandiggy (Jun 6, 2018)

I just checked it your photos in your other thread and I believe you are using a coil type bulb for UVB? 
If so, they are not good as they can cause serious eye issues for tortoises. That may be why it’s eyes looks swollen/sore


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## ascott (Jun 6, 2018)

irohthetortoise said:


> My girlfriend and I just got our boy Iroh 4-5 days ago. I already made another post about him not adjusting well/not eating at all. We got help on that and we are soaking him in warm water daily and changed up his diet to a store bought spring mix and we are going to start collecting natural weeds and plants. Anyway the problem we just noticed now is that he has some red sores that are swollen around his head/neck area. We have tried looking around but haven't found too much info so here I am posting pics hoping to get some help. We got him from a Petsmart (now knowing to never do that again from stories that I've heard) and they mentioned a 14 day warranty when I called them about the sores, but I really do not want to return him. We have grown attached and want to do everything we can for Iroh. PLEASE HELP!
> 
> ALSO
> probably just me worrying more but how do you guys think his shell looks?



May I see a pic of the tortoise enclosure...the walls and such? I suspect that this tortoise is rubbing against the enclosure and/or neck rubbing repeatedly against the shell....causing rub sores....


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## irohthetortoise (Jun 6, 2018)

ascott said:


> May I see a pic of the tortoise enclosure...the walls and such? I suspect that this tortoise is rubbing against the enclosure and/or neck rubbing repeatedly against the shell....causing rub sores....


If you look in my other thread/post I posted pictures of the enclosure


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## irohthetortoise (Jun 6, 2018)

katieandiggy said:


> I just checked it your photos in your other thread and I believe you are using a coil type bulb for UVB?
> If so, they are not good as they can cause serious eye issues for tortoises. That may be why it’s eyes looks swollen/sore


Do you have any recommendations for bulbs? This was the one recommended to us from Petsmart :/ the more and more I learn I keep finding they gave us very wrong information


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## ascott (Jun 7, 2018)

irohthetortoise said:


> If you look in my other thread/post I posted pictures of the enclosure





irohthetortoise said:


> If you look in my other thread/post I posted pictures of the enclosure



So when you bought the tort was it housed with other torts? Those marks look like rub marks and nothing more....that is a small space for a tort that believes the world is his to wander....I know ou said you are moving....so, there is that. When will you move? How soon until you offer a larger space?


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## ascott (Jun 7, 2018)

irohthetortoise said:


> If you look in my other thread/post I posted pictures of the enclosure



Oh, and please don't get sensitive by my questions....just trying to offer another view


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## irohthetortoise (Jun 7, 2018)

ascott said:


> Oh, and please don't get sensitive by my questions....just trying to offer another view


Don’t worry even if it is criticism that’s okay I’m here to learn after all I am new to this!  but actually he was the only little guy in the store and his tank was the same width maybe a little longer but definitely not by much. I’m moving into my new apartment within the next two weeks and I plan to build a 4x4 tort table as soon as I move in. And you’re sure they’re just rub marks?? They look like little cysts and I’m just worried it’s an infection.


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## ascott (Jun 7, 2018)

irohthetortoise said:


> Don’t worry even if it is criticism that’s okay I’m here to learn after all I am new to this!  but actually he was the only little guy in the store and his tank was the same width maybe a little longer but definitely not by much. I’m moving into my new apartment within the next two weeks and I plan to build a 4x4 tort table as soon as I move in. And you’re sure they’re just rub marks?? They look like little cysts and I’m just worried it’s an infection.


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## irohthetortoise (Jun 7, 2018)

Idk if you meant to type something but nothing was posted haha


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## ascott (Jun 7, 2018)

irohthetortoise said:


> Don’t worry even if it is criticism that’s okay I’m here to learn after all I am new to this!  but actually he was the only little guy in the store and his tank was the same width maybe a little longer but definitely not by much. I’m moving into my new apartment within the next two weeks and I plan to build a 4x4 tort table as soon as I move in. And you’re sure they’re just rub marks?? They look like little cysts and I’m just worried it’s an infection.



Nope...I can not guarantee anything....nor can anyone simply by viewing pics.....BUT.....I ask questions to try to get a larger pic, you know what I mean? Usually pet stores have a pack of them in an enclosure....and perhaps he was the last man down...and then you scored/rescued him....these guys in the pet stores are more times than not wild caught..so they are in shock and then are stuffed into an enclosure that is super too small, too crowded and not at all well set up for long term care, so to compare their pet shop horror set up with what they really need is a no contest....so, I would get this trooper set up asap in a larger area....I looked as some of the pics and would like to know what lighting you are using now....you are not using the uv bulbs that are the u shape are you...if you are, replace it now...they do not offer a steady and reliable source of uva/uvb ...but rather can put off intense rays randomly...the U shaped bulbs are not designed to be pointed "AT" the tort in the hood fixtures, but they don't explain that..those could be bulb burns, those marks could be rub spots....? How close in inches is the end of that bulb to the top of the tort...sounds trivial but super important....


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## ascott (Jun 7, 2018)

irohthetortoise said:


> Idk if you meant to type something but nothing was posted haha



I know, I have been known to be click happy...read on, apology


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## irohthetortoise (Jun 7, 2018)

ascott said:


> Nope...I can not guarantee anything....nor can anyone simply by viewing pics.....BUT.....I ask questions to try to get a larger pic, you know what I mean? Usually pet stores have a pack of them in an enclosure....and perhaps he was the last man down...and then you scored/rescued him....these guys in the pet stores are more times than not wild caught..so they are in shock and then are stuffed into an enclosure that is super too small, too crowded and not at all well set up for long term care, so to compare their pet shop horror set up with what they really need is a no contest....so, I would get this trooper set up asap in a larger area....I looked as some of the pics and would like to know what lighting you are using now....you are not using the uv bulbs that are the u shape are you...if you are, replace it now...they do not offer a steady and reliable source of uva/uvb ...but rather can put off intense rays randomly...the U shaped bulbs are not designed to be pointed "AT" the tort in the hood fixtures, but they don't explain that..those could be bulb burns, those marks could be rub spots....? How close in inches is the end of that bulb to the top of the tort...sounds trivial but super important....


Yeah I’ve already been told my bulb is a problem it’s a coil type (again recommended by the store :/) what specific bulb/brand would you recommend that could be pointed down directly? And right now I’d say it’s abour 8-10 inches from his shell right now.


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## ascott (Jun 7, 2018)

irohthetortoise said:


> Yeah I’ve already been told my bulb is a problem it’s a coil type (again recommended by the store :/) what specific bulb/brand would you recommend that could be pointed down directly? And right now I’d say it’s abour 8-10 inches from his shell right now.



You can offer up a Mercury Vapor Bulb (they are costly but in the end worth it, unless you can bring the tort to the natural sun at least a few times a week for 15 to 30 minutes, must have shade though to keep form overheating) which run about 45.00 to 100.00 dollars...but they are all inclusive....pretty important if the tort is going to be inside 100% of the time....they are a sensitive bulb, so lets say you turn it on and the off again straight away, it will need about 10 minutes before it will come back on....they are sensitive to abrupt hits...so there is that also...

The problem with the U bulbs or the coil bulbs is that they are designed to be in a horizontal fixture that radiates, well sideways and not in pointing position that occurs when in a dome hood...they can put off random levels of uv rays and can be harmful..so would suggest either get a new fixture to allow the bulb to be used properly (and no closer than 12 inches from the bulb to the top of the tort) or get a new bulb and return the u one???? 

I suspect that when you are not looking at the tort and you are away from view the tort is trying to scale that glass to try to venture off into a more natural setting....perhaps put some dark paper around then entire perimeter of the glass (outside) to block the tort view of the rest of the world and see if that helps to deter the desire to go...I do not know if the tort has ever been seen trying to climb the glass walls or not, but I suspect at some point that is possible....I also would run your finger around the edge of the tortoise shell surrounding the head area to see if there are any rough/less than smooth edges and if yes, then gently take a ladies emery board and gently smooth out the roughness.....really get in the tortoise life and see what is going on...


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## ascott (Jun 7, 2018)

irohthetortoise said:


> Yeah I’ve already been told my bulb is a problem it’s a coil type (again recommended by the store :/) what specific bulb/brand would you recommend that could be pointed down directly? And right now I’d say it’s abour 8-10 inches from his shell right now.



Also, do you soak the tort in clean warm water soaks? If no, perhaps you do a couple times per week to start....you can also flush the irritated areas with clean water with a squeeze bottle....the trick is to keep the irritated areas clean and clear form any bacterial issue while healing....


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## irohthetortoise (Jun 7, 2018)

ascott said:


> You can offer up a Mercury Vapor Bulb (they are costly but in the end worth it, unless you can bring the tort to the natural sun at least a few times a week for 15 to 30 minutes, must have shade though to keep form overheating) which run about 45.00 to 100.00 dollars...but they are all inclusive....pretty important if the tort is going to be inside 100% of the time....they are a sensitive bulb, so lets say you turn it on and the off again straight away, it will need about 10 minutes before it will come back on....they are sensitive to abrupt hits...so there is that also...
> 
> The problem with the U bulbs or the coil bulbs is that they are designed to be in a horizontal fixture that radiates, well sideways and not in pointing position that occurs when in a dome hood...they can put off random levels of uv rays and can be harmful..so would suggest either get a new fixture to allow the bulb to be used properly (and no closer than 12 inches from the bulb to the top of the tort) or get a new bulb and return the u one????
> 
> I suspect that when you are not looking at the tort and you are away from view the tort is trying to scale that glass to try to venture off into a more natural setting....perhaps put some dark paper around then entire perimeter of the glass (outside) to block the tort view of the rest of the world and see if that helps to deter the desire to go...I do not know if the tort has ever been seen trying to climb the glass walls or not, but I suspect at some point that is possible....I also would run your finger around the edge of the tortoise shell surrounding the head area to see if there are any rough/less than smooth edges and if yes, then gently take a ladies emery board and gently smooth out the roughness.....really get in the tortoise life and see what is going on...



Thank you so much this has actually been extremely helpful and very comforting! It’s nearly 4am here and honestly I’ve been up all night worrying about him. It’s been truly upsetting to think about :/ hopefully these changes will make things better for him!


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## irohthetortoise (Jun 7, 2018)

ascott said:


> Also, do you soak the tort in clean warm water soaks? If no, perhaps you do a couple times per week to start....you can also flush the irritated areas with clean water with a squeeze bottle....the trick is to keep the irritated areas clean and clear form any bacterial issue while healing....



I do warm water soaks daily for 30 minutes in a large Tupperware container


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## ascott (Jun 7, 2018)

irohthetortoise said:


> Thank you so much this has actually been extremely helpful and very comforting! It’s nearly 4am here and honestly I’ve been up all night worrying about him. It’s been truly upsetting to think about :/ hopefully these changes will make things better for him!



You know, just remember...this is a species that is nomadic by nature...not snobby, just cool with being with itself and will happily accept us big creatures if we come with treats and no threats....they have a few minimum requirements needed to access to assure that they are well....warmth, coolness, a bit of warm humidity, food, water and ROUTINE...they are the biggest creatures of habit that you will ever encounter....they are a no fuss no muss group...I have found that if we over think, over fuss and try to reconfigure their perfection that is when they run into problems....figure where your species comes from...try your best to replicate (understanding that you can never perfectly replicate) and offer the micro climates and minimums that they need and you will be surprised and how truly effortless they ultimately are....


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## ascott (Jun 7, 2018)

irohthetortoise said:


> I do warm water soaks daily for 30 minutes in a large Tupperware container


Good...I would also do some warm water flushes during the day to assure the areas are cool, clean and free of bacteria loving situations....


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## irohthetortoise (Jun 7, 2018)

ascott said:


> Good...I would also do some warm water flushes during the day to assure the areas are cool, clean and free of bacteria loving situations....



Awesome! Again thank you so much!


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## ascott (Jun 7, 2018)

irohthetortoise said:


> Awesome! Again thank you so much!


4 am....okay, so the next advise I can offer is, go to bed  get some rest already...


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## Yvonne G (Jun 7, 2018)

On first glance I thought 'cyst.' This looks like something you need to take him to a vet for. It could just be an encapsulated, infected sliver, but I think he needs to see the vet.


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## irohthetortoise (Jun 7, 2018)

Yvonne G said:


> On first glance I thought 'cyst.' This looks like something you need to take him to a vet for. It could just be an encapsulated, infected sliver, but I think he needs to see the vet.



I think that’s what I’m going to have to do. My vet for my dog doesn’t do reptiles so I’ve been researching diff herp vets in my area with good reputations


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## Ann Stonely (Jun 8, 2018)

irohthetortoise said:


> Don’t worry even if it is criticism that’s okay I’m here to learn after all I am new to this!  but actually he was the only little guy in the store and his tank was the same width maybe a little longer but definitely not by much. I’m moving into my new apartment within the next two weeks and I plan to build a 4x4 tort table as soon as I move in. And you’re sure they’re just rub marks?? They look like little cysts and I’m just worried it’s an infection.


I stuck my tort in a kiddie pool and made sure he had a place to hide. 4x4 is kinda small but will do. A lot of the people on this site have a lot of space and dedicate their lives to tortoises, so, while they have awesome advice there are some things you can do in a pinch. I have posted some pics of my Hiccup, he is an African Sulcata, he is happy and has his own little assitude! Please pay special attention to the recommended temperature, bulbs for light, and substrate. [emoji172]


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## Via Infinito (Jun 8, 2018)

You need to take him to the vet
I say that looks like a cyst or infection imo


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## irohthetortoise (Jun 8, 2018)

Via Infinito said:


> You need to take him to the vet
> I say that looks like a cyst or infection imo



Taking him to the vet tomorrow morning! I do believe it’s some sort of infection or burn rays from the UVB bulb I have now because I found two new sores on the top of his head during this mornings soak :/ hopefully we can get him started on some antibiotics or some sort of cream right away


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## irohthetortoise (Jun 8, 2018)

ascott said:


> You can offer up a Mercury Vapor Bulb (they are costly but in the end worth it, unless you can bring the tort to the natural sun at least a few times a week for 15 to 30 minutes, must have shade though to keep form overheating) which run about 45.00 to 100.00 dollars...but they are all inclusive....pretty important if the tort is going to be inside 100% of the time....they are a sensitive bulb, so lets say you turn it on and the off again straight away, it will need about 10 minutes before it will come back on....they are sensitive to abrupt hits...so there is that also...
> 
> The problem with the U bulbs or the coil bulbs is that they are designed to be in a horizontal fixture that radiates, well sideways and not in pointing position that occurs when in a dome hood...they can put off random levels of uv rays and can be harmful..so would suggest either get a new fixture to allow the bulb to be used properly (and no closer than 12 inches from the bulb to the top of the tort) or get a new bulb and return the u one????
> 
> I suspect that when you are not looking at the tort and you are away from view the tort is trying to scale that glass to try to venture off into a more natural setting....perhaps put some dark paper around then entire perimeter of the glass (outside) to block the tort view of the rest of the world and see if that helps to deter the desire to go...I do not know if the tort has ever been seen trying to climb the glass walls or not, but I suspect at some point that is possible....I also would run your finger around the edge of the tortoise shell surrounding the head area to see if there are any rough/less than smooth edges and if yes, then gently take a ladies emery board and gently smooth out the roughness.....really get in the tortoise life and see what is going on...



Also I guess I didn’t understand all that well, but with the mercury vapor bulb will I still need a heating bulb or does the MVB do both jobs?


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## katieandiggy (Jun 8, 2018)

The MVB does heat and UVB so depending on the size of your enclosure you may not need any other heat.


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## ascott (Jun 8, 2018)

irohthetortoise said:


> Also I guess I didn’t understand all that well, but with the mercury vapor bulb will I still need a heating bulb or does the MVB do both jobs?



Yes, it is an all in one deal. You will want to measure the distance between where the bulb will be in relation to the top of the tort....you can then decide what strength of bulb will work for your set up...some torts will still require night warmth once you turn that power bulb off for the night...you can achieve night warmth with a ceramic heat emitter or a black night bulb...some folks use red night heat bulbs but it casts a weird color and so depending on the tort you can decide what works best...they are not expensive so you can play a bit to see which works best for your set up.


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## TriciaStringer (Jun 9, 2018)

Checking to see how the vet went. I know it is still early though.


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## irohthetortoise (Jun 9, 2018)

TriciaStringer said:


> Checking to see how the vet went. I know it is still early though.



I took him earlier this morning actually. He’s in bad shape. Overnight his condition changed abruptly and started having realities problems, so my concerns were right about the sores being an infection. She said that judging by his weight and the stage of the infection she thinks he was already starving himself before we bought him and had the infection and when we moved him the stress brought down his immune system and it progressively got worse within the last 6 days. We started him in antibiotics administered once a day via needle. I’m hoping for the best. It’s been very hard honestly. I wish I had scheduled an appointment with the vet the day we got him.


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## ascott (Jun 9, 2018)

irohthetortoise said:


> I took him earlier this morning actually. He’s in bad shape. Overnight his condition changed abruptly and started having realities problems, so my concerns were right about the sores being an infection. She said that judging by his weight and the stage of the infection she thinks he was already starving himself before we bought him and had the infection and when we moved him the stress brought down his immune system and it progressively got worse within the last 6 days. We started him in antibiotics administered once a day via needle. I’m hoping for the best. It’s been very hard honestly. I wish I had scheduled an appointment with the vet the day we got him.



Is this a reptile vet?


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## irohthetortoise (Jun 9, 2018)

ascott said:


> Is this a reptile vet?



Yes she’s a herp vet


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## Big Charlie (Jun 10, 2018)

irohthetortoise said:


> I took him earlier this morning actually. He’s in bad shape. Overnight his condition changed abruptly and started having realities problems, so my concerns were right about the sores being an infection. She said that judging by his weight and the stage of the infection she thinks he was already starving himself before we bought him and had the infection and when we moved him the stress brought down his immune system and it progressively got worse within the last 6 days. We started him in antibiotics administered once a day via needle. I’m hoping for the best. It’s been very hard honestly. I wish I had scheduled an appointment with the vet the day we got him.


I'm so sorry and have my fingers crossed you can pull him through.


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## Yvonne G (Jun 10, 2018)

Oh gosh. . . I'm hoping for a good result.


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## irohthetortoise (Jun 10, 2018)

Yvonne G said:


> Oh gosh. . . I'm hoping for a good result.



Thank you I really appreciate it and I will keep you guys updated as things progress.


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## CarolM (Jun 10, 2018)

irohthetortoise said:


> I took him earlier this morning actually. He’s in bad shape. Overnight his condition changed abruptly and started having realities problems, so my concerns were right about the sores being an infection. She said that judging by his weight and the stage of the infection she thinks he was already starving himself before we bought him and had the infection and when we moved him the stress brought down his immune system and it progressively got worse within the last 6 days. We started him in antibiotics administered once a day via needle. I’m hoping for the best. It’s been very hard honestly. I wish I had scheduled an appointment with the vet the day we got him.


Oh no. Shame that is harsh. I really hope your little one pulls through. Holding thumbs for you both.


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## irohthetortoise (Jun 11, 2018)

I feel like he’s getting better already. The area of the infections are still there but they look to be healing as well as the fact that both of his eyes are open and the area isn’t as swollen. However, he’s still not eating, which makes sense, but still he’s very light right now. You can tell just by picking him up. I know tortoises are very picky choose and very stubborn when it comes to food, but is there anyway I can get him to eat something. I’ve tried a variety of things and he still won’t touch anything.


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## Yvonne G (Jun 11, 2018)

To get some nutrition into him while you're waiting for him to get his appetite back, try soaking daily in carrot baby food water. Using a container with a small footprint, but tall sides, add Gerber strained carrots and warm water (50/50) until the mixture comes up to the middle of his sides. Leave him soaking in the mixture for a good half hour, and longer is even better. Check on him frequently to make sure he hasn't tipped upside down in the water. You can position a light over one edge of the container to keep it warm.

Being on antibiotics seems to cause them to not want to eat. They lose their appetite.


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## CarolM (Jun 11, 2018)

irohthetortoise said:


> I feel like he’s getting better already. The area of the infections are still there but they look to be healing as well as the fact that both of his eyes are open and the area isn’t as swollen. However, he’s still not eating, which makes sense, but still he’s very light right now. You can tell just by picking him up. I know tortoises are very picky choose and very stubborn when it comes to food, but is there anyway I can get him to eat something. I’ve tried a variety of things and he still won’t touch anything.


I am not sure you can other than to keep on putting a variety of food down for him to eat from should he choose to start at some point. As long as he is being hydrated, then give it some time. It might take a little while and the medicine could affect his appetite as well.


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## CarolM (Jun 11, 2018)

CarolM said:


> I am not sure you can other than to keep on putting a variety of food down for him to eat from should he choose to start at some point. As long as he is being hydrated, then give it some time. It might take a little while and the medicine could affect his appetite as well.


Oops. Okay what Yvonne said.


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## irohthetortoise (Jun 11, 2018)

Yvonne G said:


> To get some nutrition into him while you're waiting for him to get his appetite back, try soaking daily in carrot baby food water. Using a container with a small footprint, but tall sides, add Gerber strained carrots and warm water (50/50) until the mixture comes up to the middle of his sides. Leave him soaking in the mixture for a good half hour, and longer is even better. Check on him frequently to make sure he hasn't tipped upside down in the water. You can position a light over one edge of the container to keep it warm.
> 
> Being on antibiotics seems to cause them to not want to eat. They lose their appetite.



He hasn’t eaten in over a week and the antibiotics are going to last at least a week before he’s off. I’ll try the carrot thing, but my main concern is can he survive with nothing in his stomach for that long (by the end of the treatment that will be 2 weeks without eating.


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## CarolM (Jun 11, 2018)

irohthetortoise said:


> He hasn’t eaten in over a week and the antibiotics are going to last at least a week before he’s off. I’ll try the carrot thing, but my main concern is can he survive with nothing in his stomach for that long (by the end of the treatment that will be 2 weeks without eating.


They can apparently survive for a long time. It's us parents who can't seem to survive the thought of them not eating. The carrot soak will get the nutrients in while he does not eat. Just hang in there. Do the soaks, give the medicine and hold onto your sanity. Good luck.


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## irohthetortoise (Jun 11, 2018)

CarolM said:


> They can apparently survive for a long time. It's us parents who can't seem to survive the thought of them not eating. The carrot soak will get the nutrients in while he does not eat. Just hang in there. Do the soaks, give the medicine and hold onto your sanity. Good luck.



Alright well I guess that’s good to think about! Thank you and I’ll let everyone know what happens


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## irohthetortoise (Jun 12, 2018)

Yvonne G said:


> To get some nutrition into him while you're waiting for him to get his appetite back, try soaking daily in carrot baby food water. Using a container with a small footprint, but tall sides, add Gerber strained carrots and warm water (50/50) until the mixture comes up to the middle of his sides. Leave him soaking in the mixture for a good half hour, and longer is even better. Check on him frequently to make sure he hasn't tipped upside down in the water. You can position a light over one edge of the container to keep it warm.
> 
> Being on antibiotics seems to cause them to not want to eat. They lose their appetite.



Hi so today I went into the botanical gardens in cleveland where they have tortoises and I talked to their keeper. I mentioned the baby food and he said he wasn’t sure about that. I’m not trying to discredit you I’m just a worried parent and want what’s best. Is this something that you’ve done yourself in the past?


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## irohthetortoise (Jun 12, 2018)

Yvonne G said:


> To get some nutrition into him while you're waiting for him to get his appetite back, try soaking daily in carrot baby food water. Using a container with a small footprint, but tall sides, add Gerber strained carrots and warm water (50/50) until the mixture comes up to the middle of his sides. Leave him soaking in the mixture for a good half hour, and longer is even better. Check on him frequently to make sure he hasn't tipped upside down in the water. You can position a light over one edge of the container to keep it warm.
> 
> Being on antibiotics seems to cause them to not want to eat. They lose their appetite.



He also suggested that we bring Iroh outside for 1 hour everyday and start feeding him bright red tomatoes and strawberries. We’d take the skin off the strawberries though so he wouldn’t ingest the seeds. But he said that if he won’t eat those two things “ he won’t eat anything”


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## Yvonne G (Jun 12, 2018)

irohthetortoise said:


> Hi so today I went into the botanical gardens in cleveland where they have tortoises and I talked to their keeper. I mentioned the baby food and he said he wasn’t sure about that. I’m not trying to discredit you I’m just a worried parent and want what’s best. Is this something that you’ve done yourself in the past?


I've been using this system for over 25 years. It never fails to bring a box turtle back from the brink in about three days. I've also used it with baby desert tortoises that won't eat. It works on them in about three days too. I use it on turtles and tortoises that haven't eaten in a while. I would never post something for our members to use unless I knew it was safe.


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## CarolM (Jun 12, 2018)

irohthetortoise said:


> He also suggested that we bring Iroh outside for 1 hour everyday and start feeding him bright red tomatoes and strawberries. We’d take the skin off the strawberries though so he wouldn’t ingest the seeds. But he said that if he won’t eat those two things “ he won’t eat anything”


I would trust Yvonne. She knows what she is talking about.


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## katieandiggy (Jun 12, 2018)

I second the above. I would trust Yvonne over most vets.


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## irohthetortoise (Jun 13, 2018)

Yvonne G said:


> I've been using this system for over 25 years. It never fails to bring a box turtle back from the brink in about three days. I've also used it with baby desert tortoises that won't eat. It works on them in about three days too. I use it on turtles and tortoises that haven't eaten in a while. I would never post something for our members to use unless I knew it was safe.



Okay thank you so much I don’t mean to question you I just wanted to make sure! And from what everyone else says on here you know what’s best, so thank you!


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## DesertGirl (Jun 13, 2018)

ascott said:


> May I see a pic of the tortoise enclosure...the walls and such? I suspect that this tortoise is rubbing against the enclosure and/or neck rubbing repeatedly against the shell....causing rub sores....


Those look like internal sores, not external abrasions from rubbing. Never saw anything like that before.


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## Gopherus Guy (Jun 13, 2018)

Thanks Yvonne. I knew you would help this guy. I, and my guy Clifford, thank you.


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## Jackie Cramer (Jun 13, 2018)

irohthetortoise said:


> My girlfriend and I just got our boy Iroh 4-5 days ago. I already made another post about him not adjusting well/not eating at all. We got help on that and we are soaking him in warm water daily and changed up his diet to a store bought spring mix and we are going to start collecting natural weeds and plants. Anyway the problem we just noticed now is that he has some red sores that are swollen around his head/neck area. We have tried looking around but haven't found too much info so here I am posting pics hoping to get some help. We got him from a Petsmart (now knowing to never do that again from stories that I've heard) and they mentioned a 14 day warranty when I called them about the sores, but I really do not want to return him. We have grown attached and want to do everything we can for Iroh. PLEASE HELP!
> 
> ALSO
> probably just me worrying more but how do you guys think his shell looks?
> ...


Take him to a reputable Vet that has experience with reptiles immediately


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## Yvonne G (Jun 13, 2018)

Jackie Cramer said:


> Take him to a reputable Vet that has experience with reptiles immediately


All is under control! The tortoise is under a doctor's care:

"irohthetortoise said: ↑
I took him earlier this morning actually. He’s in bad shape. Overnight his condition changed abruptly and started having realities problems, so my concerns were right about the sores being an infection. She said that judging by his weight and the stage of the infection she thinks he was already starving himself before we bought him and had the infection and when we moved him the stress brought down his immune system and it progressively got worse within the last 6 days. We started him in antibiotics administered once a day via needle. I’m hoping for the best. It’s been very hard honestly. I wish I had scheduled an appointment with the vet the day we got him."


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## Gopherus Guy (Jun 13, 2018)

Let’s hope for the best. It’s great you’re taking care of him. You’ll have a special buddy for a long time. Good job! [emoji217]


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## irohthetortoise (Jun 13, 2018)

Gopherus Guy said:


> Let’s hope for the best. It’s great you’re taking care of him. You’ll have a special buddy for a long time. Good job! [emoji217]



Thanks for all the advice and support everyone. This is a great community I found here


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## Yvonne G (Jun 13, 2018)

We think so too, however it's you and all the other members that make it so.


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## DesertGirl (Jun 13, 2018)

irohthetortoise said:


> He also suggested that we bring Iroh outside for 1 hour everyday and start feeding him bright red tomatoes and strawberries. We’d take the skin off the strawberries though so he wouldn’t ingest the seeds. But he said that if he won’t eat those two things “ he won’t eat anything”


Hmm, tomatoes? Really acidic. I question this. And if my girl even SEES a strawberry in her bowl, she won’t touch ANYTHING in the bowl and walks away. Blueberries are a different story!


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## DesertGirl (Jun 13, 2018)

Yvonne G said:


> To get some nutrition into him while you're waiting for him to get his appetite back, try soaking daily in carrot baby food water. Using a container with a small footprint, but tall sides, add Gerber strained carrots and warm water (50/50) until the mixture comes up to the middle of his sides. Leave him soaking in the mixture for a good half hour, and longer is even better. Check on him frequently to make sure he hasn't tipped upside down in the water. You can position a light over one edge of the container to keep it warm.
> 
> Being on antibiotics seems to cause them to not want to eat. They lose their appetite.



I know I don’t eat when I’m sick. Antibiotics always make me feel crappy. I do hope your baby gets well soon.


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## irohthetortoise (Jun 14, 2018)

Yvonne G said:


> To get some nutrition into him while you're waiting for him to get his appetite back, try soaking daily in carrot baby food water. Using a container with a small footprint, but tall sides, add Gerber strained carrots and warm water (50/50) until the mixture comes up to the middle of his sides. Leave him soaking in the mixture for a good half hour, and longer is even better. Check on him frequently to make sure he hasn't tipped upside down in the water. You can position a light over one edge of the container to keep it warm.
> 
> Being on antibiotics seems to cause them to not want to eat. They lose their appetite.


This is his second baby food carrot soak. I positioned his heat lamp about 12 inches away from the top of his shell directed on one corner of the mixture to keep it warm. Should I be doing this once a day or twice? I’ve read mixed things. Also is the level of the mixture high enough? I seems to be hitting the underside of his neck where it’s most important. His eyes are still very swollen. I try to clean them every morning with a q-tip and some warm water just to wash away the crust.


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## irohthetortoise (Jun 14, 2018)

Yvonne G said:


> To get some nutrition into him while you're waiting for him to get his appetite back, try soaking daily in carrot baby food water. Using a container with a small footprint, but tall sides, add Gerber strained carrots and warm water (50/50) until the mixture comes up to the middle of his sides. Leave him soaking in the mixture for a good half hour, and longer is even better. Check on him frequently to make sure he hasn't tipped upside down in the water. You can position a light over one edge of the container to keep it warm.
> 
> Being on antibiotics seems to cause them to not want to eat. They lose their appetite.



So he’s been holding his head here for a bit and I guess that’s worrying me.


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## irohthetortoise (Jun 14, 2018)

Yvonne G said:


> To get some nutrition into him while you're waiting for him to get his appetite back, try soaking daily in carrot baby food water. Using a container with a small footprint, but tall sides, add Gerber strained carrots and warm water (50/50) until the mixture comes up to the middle of his sides. Leave him soaking in the mixture for a good half hour, and longer is even better. Check on him frequently to make sure he hasn't tipped upside down in the water. You can position a light over one edge of the container to keep it warm.
> 
> Being on antibiotics seems to cause them to not want to eat. They lose their appetite.



I’ll be honest Yvonne he looks more stressed out in the carrot soak. He’s doin things he doesn’t do during normal soaks. He keeps sticking his head/Neck up as if he wants to stay away from the mixture and it looks like it’s distressing him. Should I just keep doing and see if he eventually gets use to the new soak mixture?


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## irohthetortoise (Jun 14, 2018)

Yvonne G said:


> To get some nutrition into him while you're waiting for him to get his appetite back, try soaking daily in carrot baby food water. Using a container with a small footprint, but tall sides, add Gerber strained carrots and warm water (50/50) until the mixture comes up to the middle of his sides. Leave him soaking in the mixture for a good half hour, and longer is even better. Check on him frequently to make sure he hasn't tipped upside down in the water. You can position a light over one edge of the container to keep it warm.
> 
> Being on antibiotics seems to cause them to not want to eat. They lose their appetite.



He won’t stay still and keeps sticking up his head and I can hear his wheezing  I’ll be honest I’m getting very stressed out just watching this. I can’t tell if he’s suffering or if this is normal


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## CarolM (Jun 14, 2018)

irohthetortoise said:


> He won’t stay still and keeps sticking up his head and I can hear his wheezing  I’ll be honest I’m getting very stressed out just watching this. I can’t tell if he’s suffering or if this is normal
> View attachment 241850


How long has he been in the carrot soak for.


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## irohthetortoise (Jun 14, 2018)

CarolM said:


> How long has he been in the carrot soak for.



For about 30 minutes now. He calmed down a bit when I was lying down next to the Tupperware then the second I got up to go to the bathroom he started freaking out again and moving around the Tupperware lifting his head up and breathing heavily. Like he’s breathing so heavy that whenever he breathes he two front legs pulse as like a reflex.


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## Yvonne G (Jun 14, 2018)

30 minutes is fine. You can take him out and rinse him off. Just remember, YOU'RE the boss, not him. If he scrambles around trying to get out, just ignore him. If he hold his head up, that's probably because he's having trouble breathing and he can breathe easier in that position. He needs the nutrients garnered from the soaks. His swollen eyes will go away after about three days of 30-45 minute soaks IF YOU STAY STRONG AND KEEP IT UP!

Go to the pharmacy and buy a squirt bottle of sterile saline. You find it in the contact lens department. Buy an extra, empty squirt bottle so you don't have to touch the tip of the full bottle to the tortoise. Firmly squirt some sterile saline through each nostril. Don't squirt like you're just trying to put some drops in his nose. Squirt like you're trying to flush out his nose of obstructions. Don't worry about the solution getting to his lungs because the other end of the nostrils goes into the roof of his mouth, not down his lungs.

And stop worrying so much. He's going to be ok.


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## irohthetortoise (Jun 14, 2018)

Yvonne G said:


> 30 minutes is fine. You can take him out and rinse him off. Just remember, YOU'RE the boss, not him. If he scrambles around trying to get out, just ignore him. If he hold his head up, that's probably because he's having trouble breathing and he can breathe easier in that position. He needs the nutrients garnered from the soaks. His swollen eyes will go away after about three days of 30-45 minute soaks IF YOU STAY STRONG AND KEEP IT UP!
> 
> Go to the pharmacy and buy a squirt bottle of sterile saline. You find it in the contact lens department. Buy an extra, empty squirt bottle so you don't have to touch the tip of the full bottle to the tortoise. Firmly squirt some sterile saline through each nostril. Don't squirt like you're just trying to put some drops in his nose. Squirt like you're trying to flush out his nose of obstructions. Don't worry about the solution getting to his lungs because the other end of the nostrils goes into the roof of his mouth, not down his lungs.
> 
> And stop worrying so much. He's going to be ok.



Okay okay thank you so much...again I worry very easily, but thank you for always reassuring me! You’ve been great so far! Ill head to CVS right now to get the solution.


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## Pearly (Jun 14, 2018)

irohthetortoise said:


> For about 30 minutes now. He calmed down a bit when I was lying down next to the Tupperware then the second I got up to go to the bathroom he started freaking out again and moving around the Tupperware lifting his head up and breathing heavily. Like he’s breathing so heavy that whenever he breathes he two front legs pulse as like a reflex.



Hi there! Sorry I have missed this whole saga! First of all, warmest welcome from the edge of Texas Hill Country from me and my Redfotted torts: Shellie and Tucker! You sound so much like me in the way you worry about your sick pet! I love it! God bless you for that! You are in good hands here with ascot and Yvonne here, I just wanted to add that the fact that your tort is sloshing around in his carrot bath... means.... he’s feeling better!!!! I most worry when they don’t move! I’m not congratulating you just yet, but i think you have caught it just in time, and that it very likely that your acute senses, tunning into your new pet’s vibes and your vigilance might have saved this poor tort’s life.


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## Pearly (Jun 14, 2018)

P.s. It drives me insane when pet stores give „14 day return policy” on their live animals. Like they are... merchandise! Disposable piece of garbage!!! No wonder the growing young generations have such difficult time with the commitment.


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## Yvonne G (Jun 14, 2018)

How do the bumps look? Are they going down?


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## ascott (Jun 14, 2018)

DesertGirl said:


> Those look like internal sores, not external abrasions from rubbing. Never saw anything like that before.




I have. That is why I mentioned it.


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## ascott (Jun 14, 2018)

irohthetortoise said:


> He also suggested that we bring Iroh outside for 1 hour everyday and start feeding him bright red tomatoes and strawberries. We’d take the skin off the strawberries though so he wouldn’t ingest the seeds. But he said that if he won’t eat those two things “ he won’t eat anything”



Did you offer these items to see if they sparked appetite?


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## ascott (Jun 14, 2018)

irohthetortoise said:


> I took him earlier this morning actually. He’s in bad shape. Overnight his condition changed abruptly and started having realities problems, so my concerns were right about the sores being an infection. She said that judging by his weight and the stage of the infection she thinks he was already starving himself before we bought him and had the infection and when we moved him the stress brought down his immune system and it progressively got worse within the last 6 days. We started him in antibiotics administered once a day via needle. I’m hoping for the best. It’s been very hard honestly. I wish I had scheduled an appointment with the vet the day we got him.



What test did the vet do to support their advise of "he's in really bad shape"...I mean, "realities problems" what does that mean???? You say "were right about the sores being an infection" what did the vet do to confirm this, test wise....? Weight and "stage of the infection" what was done to determine the stage of the infection and/or type and/or cause? What type of tests? Not just guesses?


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## irohthetortoise (Jun 14, 2018)

Pearly said:


> Hi there! Sorry I have missed this whole saga! First of all, warmest welcome from the edge of Texas Hill Country from me and my Redfotted torts: Shellie and Tucker! You sound so much like me in the way you worry about your sick pet! I love it! God bless you for that! You are in good hands here with ascot and Yvonne here, I just wanted to add that the fact that your tort is sloshing around in his carrot bath... means.... he’s feeling better!!!! I most worry when they don’t move! I’m not congratulating you just yet, but i think you have caught it just in time, and that it very likely that your acute senses, tunning into your new pet’s vibes and your vigilance might have saved this poor tort’s life.



Hey thank you so much. Getting all these warm
welcomes and words of advice has been greatly appreciated by me and even if Iroh doesn’t realize it, it’s appreciated by him too haha


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## irohthetortoise (Jun 14, 2018)

Yvonne G said:


> How do the bumps look? Are they going down?



Well they are still noticeably there. The one on his neck is still visibly raised but it looks almost as if they are scabbing over now and drying up (hopefully a good sign). The one on his neck was fairly raised and even though it has started to dry and scab I’m worried about it not going down. I will post a pic tomorrow morning.


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## irohthetortoise (Jun 14, 2018)

ascott said:


> What test did the vet do to support their advise of "he's in really bad shape"...I mean, "realities problems" what does that mean???? You say "were right about the sores being an infection" what did the vet do to confirm this, test wise....? Weight and "stage of the infection" what was done to determine the stage of the infection and/or type and/or cause? What type of tests? Not just guesses?



To be honest I guess she didn’t do any formal tests. She weighed him and told me he was extremely underweight and assumed he had still not been eating even while at the store. After she looked at his neck and swollen eyes with clear discharge coming from them she told me it was an infection. She left the room and came back with antibiotics that I administer once a day via needle to the top of the front legs near his neck. I trusted her opinion well because she’s a vet and other friends with reptiles told me she was good.


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## irohthetortoise (Jun 14, 2018)

ascott said:


> What test did the vet do to support their advise of "he's in really bad shape"...I mean, "realities problems" what does that mean???? You say "were right about the sores being an infection" what did the vet do to confirm this, test wise....? Weight and "stage of the infection" what was done to determine the stage of the infection and/or type and/or cause? What type of tests? Not just guesses?



Also “realities problems” was a typo. I meant respiratory problems.


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## irohthetortoise (Jun 15, 2018)

ascott said:


> Did you offer these items to see if they sparked appetite?



I still have yet to see him eat with my own eyes but I put a few bits of chopped strawberries and mustard greens next to him and the a few pieces of strawberry were gone. I’m not sure if he moved them around and buried them under the substrate but I do not see those specific ones anymore. He’s only defecated once in the two weeks that we’ve had him though.


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## irohthetortoise (Jun 15, 2018)

Hey guys so I’m giving him his carrot soak and still lifting his head quite high which I’m ignoring right now as suggested. I’m keeping a distance where I do not interact but can still see what’s going on. I did the saline flush through both nostrils. He definitely didn’t enjoy that but it definitely cleared some blockage in his right nostril.


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## irohthetortoise (Jun 15, 2018)

irohthetortoise said:


> Hey guys so I’m giving him his carrot soak and still lifting his head quite high which I’m ignoring right now as suggested. I’m keeping a distance where I do not interact but can still see what’s going on. I did the saline flush through both nostrils. He definitely didn’t enjoy that but it definitely cleared some blockage in his right nostril.



He’s also sort of shaking this morning. Not like a constant shake, more like an occasional twitch of the head. It’s a very noticeable twitch though.


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## irohthetortoise (Jun 15, 2018)

Yvonne G said:


> How do the bumps look? Are they going down?


Here are pictures of the sores. They’re still there but like I said they look to be scabbing over and hopefully healing. Can’t say for sure though.


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## irohthetortoise (Jun 15, 2018)

Yvonne G said:


> How do the bumps look? Are they going down?



Here’s a before and after. I definitely think the area is looking better.


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## Erik Elvis (Jun 15, 2018)

I’d say they’re definitely looking better. Stick with it!


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## katieandiggy (Jun 15, 2018)

MUCH better. The whole area looks less red and inflamed. Just keep up with what you are doing. Your doing good.


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## mark1 (Jun 15, 2018)

irohthetortoise said:


> To be honest I guess she didn’t do any formal tests. She weighed him and told me he was extremely underweight and assumed he had still not been eating even while at the store. After she looked at his neck and swollen eyes with clear discharge coming from them she told me it was an infection. She left the room and came back with antibiotics that I administer once a day via needle to the top of the front legs near his neck. I trusted her opinion well because she’s a vet and other friends with reptiles told me she was good.


i am near cleveland , could i ask the name of the vet your seeing ? your tortoise does look better ........


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## Pearly (Jun 15, 2018)

irohthetortoise said:


> Here’s a before and after. I definitely think the area is looking better.
> View attachment 241948
> View attachment 241949



That is MUCH less inflammed! Good job!


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## Pearly (Jun 15, 2018)

irohthetortoise said:


> He’s also sort of shaking this morning. Not like a constant shake, more like an occasional twitch of the head. It’s a very noticeable twitch though.



Any way you could post a little video clip of that? You may need to upload one to youtube (or something similar) to then post it here. I’ve been trying to get mine (of my tort making verydistinct clicking sounds) and struggling with the technicalities, hopefully you are more hich tech savvy[emoji6]


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## irohthetortoise (Jun 15, 2018)

Pearly said:


> Any way you could post a little video clip of that? You may need to upload one to youtube (or something similar) to then post it here. I’ve been trying to get mine (of my tort making verydistinct clicking sounds) and struggling with the technicalities, hopefully you are more hich tech savvy[emoji6]



Yeah i noticed we can’t upload videos here because I actually took a few videos of him doing these things to show everyone. I might take the YouTube route.


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## irohthetortoise (Jun 15, 2018)

mark1 said:


> i am near cleveland , could i ask the name of the vet your seeing ? your tortoise does look better ........



Dr. Victoria A. Wendt in Lakewood, Ohio.


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## mark1 (Jun 15, 2018)

irohthetortoise said:


> Dr. Victoria A. Wendt in Lakewood, Ohio.



wonderful vet .……… she could take a guess on mine anytime , and has in the past , this stuff is far from new to her ……….. her father used to be my dogs vet ………


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## irohthetortoise (Jun 15, 2018)

mark1 said:


> wonderful vet .……… she could take a guess on mine anytime , and has in the past , this stuff is far from new to her ……….. her father used to be my dogs vet ………



It’s good to hear another great opinion about her! Very reassuring. She was extremely helpful.


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## irohthetortoise (Jun 15, 2018)

We just got the MVB in the mail along with a water dish that he can fit in and easily get in and out of (not pictured). His new cave was supposed to come as well but didn’t show. Anyway I also got an infrared thermometer. What kind of temps should I be aiming for and in which areas of he enclosure. Right now I have the MVB set up in the corner and pointed downwards to keep that area warm. Then the other side the MVB is not pointed at it and I have his homemade cave for a cooler area. But again what kind of temperatures should I be aiming for now that I have my thermometer.


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## Pearly (Jun 16, 2018)

irohthetortoise said:


> View attachment 242061
> 
> 
> We just got the MVB in the mail along with a water dish that he can fit in and easily get in and out of (not pictured). His new cave was supposed to come as well but didn’t show. Anyway I also got an infrared thermometer. What kind of temps should I be aiming for and in which areas of he enclosure. Right now I have the MVB set up in the corner and pointed downwards to keep that area warm. Then the other side the MVB is not pointed at it and I have his homemade cave for a cooler area. But again what kind of temperatures should I be aiming for now that I have my thermometer.



Never below 80 (day/night) until after he gets over the illness. And nice and humid. Also if your tank is open on top all the heat/humidity escape into the room air. See if you can find some way to cover the top. With that being sad, those mvb’s are very strong so keep a very close eye on those temps so that he doesn’t cook in there. Also with my gun thermometer i often check my torts’ carapace temp to make sure he doesn’t overheat


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## irohthetortoise (Jun 16, 2018)

Pearly said:


> Never below 80 (day/night) until after he gets over the illness. And nice and humid. Also if your tank is open on top all the heat/humidity escape into the room air. See if you can find some way to cover the top. With that being sad, those mvb’s are very strong so keep a very close eye on those temps so that he doesn’t cook in there. Also with my gun thermometer i often check my torts’ carapace temp to make sure he doesn’t overheat



Awesome! Because of the open top I also thought it might escape but we spray his tank once over a few times a day to keep the humidity up. With the gun I measured different areas. Right under the light it’s about 85, in the middle of the tank it’s about 80, in the far end is a solid 75 (all Fahrenheit by the way). I actually put the gun up to his carapace and it ready about 81 more or less


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## DesertGirl (Jun 16, 2018)

Pearly said:


> P.s. It drives me insane when pet stores give „14 day return policy” on their live animals. Like they are... merchandise! Disposable piece of garbage!!! No wonder the growing young generations have such difficult time with the commitment.


Wise words indeed! Thank you, Pearly.


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## Pearly (Jun 17, 2018)

irohthetortoise said:


> Awesome! Because of the open top I also thought it might escape but we spray his tank once over a few times a day to keep the humidity up. With the gun I measured different areas. Right under the light it’s about 85, in the middle of the tank it’s about 80, in the far end is a solid 75 (all Fahrenheit by the way). I actually put the gun up to his carapace and it ready about 81 more or less



My torts don’t bask so I’m not sure but it seems i heard people say that basking temp should be much higher then 85f. With sick tort you could keep the whole thing at 85 until he gets over the illness. You really need to help them get their metabolism up so their immune system can start working. At 75F everything is „asleep”. Btw 81 carapace is great beginning. Cover that tank. Do the lamps sit on something on top of the tank or are they hanging?


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## katieandiggy (Jun 17, 2018)

Basking temp should be 95-100f 
85f is too cool.


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## Pearly (Jun 17, 2018)

katieandiggy said:


> Basking temp should be 95-100f
> 85f is too cool.



Thank you! That sound more like it


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## irohthetortoise (Jun 17, 2018)

Pearly said:


> My torts don’t bask so I’m not sure but it seems i heard people say that basking temp should be much higher then 85f. With sick tort you could keep the whole thing at 85 until he gets over the illness. You really need to help them get their metabolism up so their immune system can start working. At 75F everything is „asleep”. Btw 81 carapace is great beginning. Cover that tank. Do the lamps sit on something on top of the tank or are they hanging?



Thanks and yeah I’m going to cover it loosely with cardboard and the MVB is attached by a heat lamp clip on the side of the tank!


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## irohthetortoise (Jun 17, 2018)

katieandiggy said:


> Basking temp should be 95-100f
> 85f is too cool.



I read it again, it’s fluctuating between 85-95 now. Hopefully once I cover it tonight once the area under the lamp will be more consistent.


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## daniellenc (Jun 17, 2018)

Be warned those clips fail and pose a serious fire risk as well as burning your baby. You’ll to find a secondary way to secure the lamp to avoid this.


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## irohthetortoise (Jun 17, 2018)

daniellenc said:


> Be warned those clips fail and pose a serious fire risk as well as burning your baby. You’ll to find a secondary way to secure the lamp to avoid this.



It seems like a fairly strong clip. I pulled on it a bunch to make sure it was secure and it would stay in place with a lot of resistance. But again I’m always open to advice what other options should I explore? Here’s a pic of the lamp clip for reference. The lamp dome itself is also resting on top of the tank which adds more support.


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## Pearly (Jun 17, 2018)

irohthetortoise said:


> Thanks and yeah I’m going to cover it loosely with cardboard and the MVB is attached by a heat lamp clip on the side of the tank!



Ok, whatever you do please be cognizant of the very real fire risk. I’m not sure about the cardboard.... I used this special insulation material that is designed for being around heat and electricity.

something like this.

and to secure tjings in place there is a special aluminum tape

, something like that. That is what I used to cover my tank when my babies needed to be in 80F and 90% humidity closed chamber 23 hrs out of every day (the other hour was for the outdoors)


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## vladimir (Jun 18, 2018)

ZooMed has a reptile lamp stand for about $20 which can be used as an alternative to the clamp.


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## irohthetortoise (Jun 18, 2018)

Pearly said:


> Ok, whatever you do please be cognizant of the very real fire risk. I’m not sure about the cardboard.... I used this special insulation material that is designed for being around heat and electricity.
> View attachment 242257
> something like this.
> View attachment 242258
> ...



Okay I just went on amazon an ordered something similar to those thank you!


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## irohthetortoise (Jun 18, 2018)

vladimir said:


> ZooMed has a reptile lamp stand for about $20 which can be used as an alternative to the clamp.



Okay I’ll go check it out now thanks!


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## irohthetortoise (Jun 18, 2018)

Yvonne G said:


> We think so too, however it's you and all the other members that make it so.



Sorry I’m quoting a random quote but I wanted you to see the notification. So we’re nearing the end of the antibiotics that the vet gave us. Do you think we should go in for another visit and get another round of medication? Also the main reason for this post is that his eyes are still bothering him. They have both been closed and haven’t opened for a little over two days. I was rubbing them with q-tips and warm water but I stopped because I thought maybe that was irritating him. Now both eyes look as if they have been sealed over and they look closed and very dry. Should I go back in with a q-tip and try to open them?


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## Yvonne G (Jun 18, 2018)

irohthetortoise said:


> Sorry I’m quoting a random quote but I wanted you to see the notification. So we’re nearing the end of the antibiotics that the vet gave us. Do you think we should go in for another visit and get another round of medication? Also the main reason for this post is that his eyes are still bothering him. They have both been closed and haven’t opened for a little over two days. I was rubbing them with q-tips and warm water but I stopped because I thought maybe that was irritating him. Now both eyes look as if they have been sealed over and they look closed and very dry. Should I go back in with a q-tip and try to open them?
> View attachment 242285
> View attachment 242286


Did we ever ask you what lights you have over the enclosure? Maybe your UVB light is irritating his eyes. Sand also causes the problem you're talking about.


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## Yvonne G (Jun 18, 2018)

I just looked at your other thread. Are you still using that compact fluorescent bulb? If yes, then that's why your tortoise's eyes are stuck shut.


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## irohthetortoise (Jun 18, 2018)

Yvonne G said:


> I just looked at your other thread. Are you still using that compact fluorescent bulb? If yes, then that's why your tortoise's eyes are stuck shut.



No I took out the UVB about a week ago maybe more and was solely using the heat lamp because people suggested that maybe his eyes were irritated and he had burns on the top of his head. I ordered an MVB and have been using it for about 3 days now.


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## irohthetortoise (Jun 18, 2018)

Yvonne G said:


> Did we ever ask you what lights you have over the enclosure? Maybe your UVB light is irritating his eyes. Sand also causes the problem you're talking about.



And no we don’t use sand. We’re currently using cypress mulch


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## Yvonne G (Jun 18, 2018)

Is it possible your MVB is too close to the tortoise? It shouldn't be any closer than 12" from the top of his back. What wattage did you buy? Try moving it up a couple or three inches higher.


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## irohthetortoise (Jun 18, 2018)

Yvonne G said:


> Is it possible your MVB is too close to the tortoise? It shouldn't be any closer than 12" from the top of his back. What wattage did you buy? Try moving it up a couple or three inches higher.



The MVB is a little over 12 inches away from his back, but I can try and rig something together to move it up. At the moment it’s the highest it can go. I’ll need to by something that goes higher that the tanks edge. It’s a 100w bulb.


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## mark1 (Jun 18, 2018)

irohthetortoise said:


> Awesome! Because of the open top I also thought it might escape but we spray his tank once over a few times a day to keep the humidity up. With the gun I measured different areas. Right under the light it’s about 85, in the middle of the tank it’s about 80, in the far end is a solid 75 (all Fahrenheit by the way). I actually put the gun up to his carapace and it ready about 81 more or less



if you have the ability , a safe , escape proof outside pen with shade , sunlight and water would help , natural sunlight and photoperiod does wonders for them physically and mentally ........


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## irohthetortoise (Jun 18, 2018)

mark1 said:


> if you have the ability , a safe , escape proof outside pen with shade , sunlight and water would help , natural sunlight and photoperiod does wonders for them physically and mentally ........



I live in an apartment so I don’t have my own yard, but my girlfriend and I try to take him outside for an hour every day and at the very least every other day.


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## irohthetortoise (Jun 18, 2018)

Also he still not eating guys. I’ve tried dandelions, clover (plus the little flowers that bloom, mustard greens, spinach, strawberries, tomatoes, cucumbers, store bought spring mix, and petunias. I know his eyes are still closed so maybe he can’t see the food, but still


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## creepy-crawler (Jun 18, 2018)

have you seen the vet? I keep russians too, swollen eyes are USUALLY a sign of Respiratory infection, if he is not eating, it means it is pretty advanced, he will need antibiotics to survive. I do not claim to know what is wrong with your tortoise, but mine is currently in the hospital tank after a vet visit. mine are kept outside and with a f****d weather this year this got an RI, looks like this except without the sores, the sores mean a definite infection, also, take him outside, let him enjoy the morning sun, also since he is not eating, neither is mine, give him soaks in V* or tomato (even better) juice. It feeds him a little bit as they absorb though claoca so much. good luck, i will not be checking how much anger and disagreement this comment will provide, but my best goes out to you and your boy


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## creepy-crawler (Jun 18, 2018)

and the fact that his skin is turning pink is the worst thing, it looks like septicimia to me, vet my friend is your only salvation, or he will die, septicimia will kill him in one month.


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## irohthetortoise (Jun 18, 2018)

creepy-crawler said:


> and the fact that his skin is turning pink is the worst thing, it looks like septicimia to me, vet my friend is your only salvation, or he will die, septicimia will kill him in one month.



I appreciate all your input but go through the whole post haha, took him to the vet over a week ago. His first round of antibiotics is almost over. All the sores are all healed and scabbed over/healed. I soak him in a mixture of water and gerbers carrot baby food.


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## irohthetortoise (Jun 18, 2018)

creepy-crawler said:


> and the fact that his skin is turning pink is the worst thing, it looks like septicimia to me, vet my friend is your only salvation, or he will die, septicimia will kill him in one month.



Even after he antibiotics and over 3 days of carrot soaks he’s still not eating.


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## creepy-crawler (Jun 18, 2018)

oh the recovery is very long, did he open his eyes yet? he might not look it but he might be congested.


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## irohthetortoise (Jun 18, 2018)

creepy-crawler said:


> oh the recovery is very long, did he open his eyes yet? he might not look it but he might be congested.



Well it’s a respiratory illness so I’ve been assuming he’s congested. But he has not opened his eyes yet. We are at the park right now for sunset. There’s a nice breeze and it’s pretty warm outside.


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## irohthetortoise (Jun 18, 2018)

Iroh at the park at sunset


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## Melis (Jun 18, 2018)

Be careful at public parks. They could spray the grass. You don’t wanna add on any other issues to this little guy


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## irohthetortoise (Jun 18, 2018)

Melis said:


> Be careful at public parks. They could spray the grass. You don’t wanna add on any other issues to this little guy



At this park I know they only spray on the edges near the sidewalk (used to work there haha)


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## MrMarg&me (Jun 18, 2018)

It is so very hard when you invest all you have and want your pet to thrive and you feel it is not helping. Your tortoise is fortunate to have you caring for him no matter what.


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## irohthetortoise (Jun 18, 2018)

MissMarg&me said:


> It is so very hard when you invest all you have and want your pet to thrive and you feel it is not helping. Your tortoise is fortunate to have you caring for him no matter what.



Thank you that means a lot.


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## mark1 (Jun 20, 2018)

outside really is a big deal , but if you don't have a pen to keep him in that he's acclimated to , myself personally I think the stress of moving him around outweighs any possible benefit to the limited outside exposure he'll be getting , stress is unhealthy for a healthy animal , it's deadly to an unhealthy animal ……. the best sun for them is morning early afternoon ……. keep him hydrated and warm 80-85 degrees , humidity will benefit him ….. when i read "never" give them a vitamin shot , myself personally i shake my head ....... vitamin deficiencies such as B and A can in themselves be fatal , just as to much can be .......personally I think a b shot might perk him up , that along with hydration............. the fact he hasn't opened his eyes is worrisome , if the infection is bacterial and hasn't been let go to the point it has damaged organs , i'd guess he will survive ........ the carrot soak is new to me , from here , but if he's drinking it sure sounds like a good idea , oral vitamin A is absolutely safest ……..he probably hasn't eaten in a long time , I would think he's probably a candidate as to having some deficiencies going on ………… I read on this board quite often that a vet is the last resort , and then folks are blaming their vets for their animals death , which to me is more than a bit illogical , it's like wondering why a doctor getting his patients from hospice has such a high death rate ........ i have many dog vets and have had quite a few exotic vets , if one of them didn't know a dog is different than a turtle they wouldn't be my dogs vet , i tend to pick smarter folks than me for such services ...........


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## irohthetortoise (Jun 20, 2018)

mark1 said:


> outside really is a big deal , but if you don't have a pen to keep him in that he's acclimated to , myself personally I think the stress of moving him around outweighs any possible benefit to the limited outside exposure he'll be getting , stress is unhealthy for a healthy animal , it's deadly to an unhealthy animal ……. the best sun for them is morning early afternoon ……. keep him hydrated and warm 80-85 degrees , humidity will benefit him ….. when i read "never" give them a vitamin shot , myself personally i shake my head ....... vitamin deficiencies such as B and A can in themselves be fatal , just as to much can be .......personally I think a b shot might perk him up , that along with hydration............. the fact he hasn't opened his eyes is worrisome , if the infection is bacterial and hasn't been let go to the point it has damaged organs , i'd guess he will survive ........ the carrot soak is new to me , from here , but if he's drinking it sure sounds like a good idea , oral vitamin A is absolutely safest ……..he probably hasn't eaten in a long time , I would think he's probably a candidate as to having some deficiencies going on ………… I read on this board quite often that a vet is the last resort , and then folks are blaming their vets for their animals death , which to me is more than a bit illogical , it's like wondering why a doctor getting his patients from hospice has such a high death rate ........ i have many dog vets and have had quite a few exotic vets , if one of them didn't know a dog is different than a turtle they wouldn't be my dogs vet , i tend to pick smarter folks than me for such services ...........



So you’re saying if he doesn’t have a pen outside we shouldn’t bring him outside at all? Your wording confused me. In terms of our vet that wasn’t last minute at all I called the vet for an appointment within the first 4 days of getting Iroh but I was only able to get my appointment 3 days after that. Since we are near the end of the antibiotics and he still hasn’t opened his eyes I actually set up another appointment yesterday. Unfortunately she couldn’t take me until this coming Friday.


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## mark1 (Jun 20, 2018)

my thoughts on the advice i read here quite often towards vet help was not at all aimed at you ....... i think you did exactly what i'd have done ........ as far as outside , i wouldn't be stressing him out to get him there , in his condition sunlight is not his foremost concern ....... put his cage near a window with natural sunlight , just make sure it doesn't get to warm and he isn't stuck in the sun , both of which are stressful themselves ........ as far as dr. wendt , her fathers name was dr. wallace wendt , google him along with cleveland zoo , she been around this stuff her entire life , she won't do anything she doesn't think is necessary and helpful ....there is no doubt in my mind , the more invasive the intervention a vet has to do , the more likely the outcome will not be good ........ good luck with your guy ........


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## irohthetortoise (Jun 20, 2018)

mark1 said:


> my thoughts on the advice i read here quite often towards vet help was not at all aimed at you ....... i think you did exactly what i'd have done ........ as far as outside , i wouldn't be stressing him out to get him there , in his condition sunlight is not his foremost concern ....... put his cage near a window with natural sunlight , just make sure it doesn't get to warm and he isn't stuck in the sun , both of which are stressful themselves ........ as far as dr. wendt , her fathers name was dr. wallace wendt , google him along with cleveland zoo , she been around this stuff her entire life , she won't do anything she doesn't think is necessary and helpful ....there is no doubt in my mind , the more invasive the intervention a vet has to do , the more likely the outcome will not be good ........ good luck with your guy ........



Thank you so much, I will take all this into account and I’ll definitely be looking up her father!


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## irohthetortoise (Jun 24, 2018)

Update: we took Iroh to the vet again yesterday (Saturday) she said he infection is almost completely gone. The issue of his eyes not opening has also gotten better. She gave us some sort of gel to rub on his eyes (forgot the name of it). We clean them with a q-tip daily then place a small bit of the gel right on the crease of his eyes. Worked very well I’d say. This morning is left eye was completely open for the first time in nearly 4-5 days. Right eye is still closed, but looking better. Iroh is still not eating. She suggested force feeding with a syringe and some type of purée but she didn’t specify what we should be giving him? Any suggestions for force feeding? Also she gave him a vitamin shot while we were there and just by chance I happened on to another post where everyone was saying absolutely NO vitamin shots. I am not worried. Why do people advise against them?


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## ascott (Jun 24, 2018)

irohthetortoise said:


> Update: we took Iroh to the vet again yesterday (Saturday) she said he infection is almost completely gone. The issue of his eyes not opening has also gotten better. She gave us some sort of gel to rub on his eyes (forgot the name of it). We clean them with a q-tip daily then place a small bit of the gel right on the crease of his eyes. Worked very well I’d say. This morning is left eye was completely open for the first time in nearly 4-5 days. Right eye is still closed, but looking better. Iroh is still not eating. She suggested force feeding with a syringe and some type of purée but she didn’t specify what we should be giving him? Any suggestions for force feeding? Also she gave him a vitamin shot while we were there and just by chance I happened on to another post where everyone was saying absolutely NO vitamin shots. I am not worried. Why do people advise against them?



I would be wary of force feeding....very stressful and very invasive...especially if the tort has not begun to open eyes....soak and offer smelly favorite treat foods---bite by bite by hand if necessary.....also, vitamin A can kill a tortoise...especially a small tortoise.


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## irohthetortoise (Jun 24, 2018)

I am very worried* my bad


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## Yvonne G (Jun 24, 2018)

I don't know why, but SOME vets tend to give too much vitamin A in the injection. Too much causes the skin to slough off. If you follow my driections about soaking in Gerber strained carrots/warm water (50/50) the eyes will open in three days.


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## ascott (Jun 24, 2018)

irohthetortoise said:


> I am very worried* my bad



Hopefully the increased soaking will aid in diluting any vitamin injection if it was not correct amount ....did you offer the sweet potatoes again? slightly softened?


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## irohthetortoise (Jun 25, 2018)

Yvonne G said:


> I don't know why, but SOME vets tend to give too much vitamin A in the injection. Too much causes the skin to slough off. If you follow my driections about soaking in Gerber strained carrots/warm water (50/50) the eyes will open in three days.



Interesting. Also I’ve been doing the Gerber soaks for over a week now and his eyes didn’t open until the vet gave us that gel. Also about the force feeding do you have any suggestions?


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## mark1 (Jun 25, 2018)

An adult can go a long time without eating . force feeding is a very invasive procedure , often not so stressful on a really sick animal , they often seem beyond caring and don't have a lot of fight to them ...….I think force feeding is for animals in secondary stages of starvation , which may be the case right now , no one has any idea the last time this animal ate , your vet has seen a lot of tortoises ……it is a fact a vit B or vit A deficiency can be fatal …. I’d guess she gave her a shot of vit B , it does stimulate appetite ……. If she gave her vit A , I’d think it was A D E …… I've had many turtles given vit A through injection , an overdose is toxic , I assure you any vet worth seeing knows that , any vet should , a vitamin A overdose can kill a dog . While tortoises are less frequently affected by A deficiencies than turtles , a long term anorexic animal is most likely suffering from deficiencies in just about everything ……….. I do know the vet you are going to , there are many really smart experienced folks here on this forum with great ideas , when it comes to advice on my sick turtles or tortoises , I’m taking hers over anyone here’s , including mine …if she’s treated 4 turtles or tortoises a week over her career , that’d have her having treated around 8000 sick turtles or tortoises over the last 30yrs , believe me she’s way beyond that number , reptiles is what she is interested in , one of the first vets I knew would see them , her father was an exotic animal vet since like 1940 …… the fact your tortoise is opening his eyes is a good sign and he may start eating now that he can see …… if you don’t see continual progress , and any sign of regression , take her up on the forced feeding …….. if his enclosure has no natural sunlight , make it as bright as you possibly can and offer him everything you can think of , even stuff that isn’t good for him just to get him to eat , cat food , worms , fish , fruit , squash , sweet potato …………. I have two 48x24x24 aquariums I rais hatchling in , each has 4 fluorescents , two 6500k , uvb , one 2800k bulbs , one plant bulb , and a basking light , along with a che. they are BRIGHT……… the bins I use are maybe 36x18 , they have 4 flourescents , same bulbs , and a basking bulb along with a che , they are daylight bright , I use them to get turtles eating out of hibernation ………. there is a physiological basis for light therapy …...


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## irohthetortoise (Jun 28, 2018)

mark1 said:


> An adult can go a long time without eating . force feeding is a very invasive procedure , often not so stressful on a really sick animal , they often seem beyond caring and don't have a lot of fight to them ...….I think force feeding is for animals in secondary stages of starvation , which may be the case right now , no one has any idea the last time this animal ate , your vet has seen a lot of tortoises ……it is a fact a vit B or vit A deficiency can be fatal …. I’d guess she gave her a shot of vit B , it does stimulate appetite ……. If she gave her vit A , I’d think it was A D E …… I've had many turtles given vit A through injection , an overdose is toxic , I assure you any vet worth seeing knows that , any vet should , a vitamin A overdose can kill a dog . While tortoises are less frequently affected by A deficiencies than turtles , a long term anorexic animal is most likely suffering from deficiencies in just about everything ……….. I do know the vet you are going to , there are many really smart experienced folks here on this forum with great ideas , when it comes to advice on my sick turtles or tortoises , I’m taking hers over anyone here’s , including mine …if she’s treated 4 turtles or tortoises a week over her career , that’d have her having treated around 8000 sick turtles or tortoises over the last 30yrs , believe me she’s way beyond that number , reptiles is what she is interested in , one of the first vets I knew would see them , her father was an exotic animal vet since like 1940 …… the fact your tortoise is opening his eyes is a good sign and he may start eating now that he can see …… if you don’t see continual progress , and any sign of regression , take her up on the forced feeding …….. if his enclosure has no natural sunlight , make it as bright as you possibly can and offer him everything you can think of , even stuff that isn’t good for him just to get him to eat , cat food , worms , fish , fruit , squash , sweet potato …………. I have two 48x24x24 aquariums I rais hatchling in , each has 4 fluorescents , two 6500k , uvb , one 2800k bulbs , one plant bulb , and a basking light , along with a che. they are BRIGHT……… the bins I use are maybe 36x18 , they have 4 flourescents , same bulbs , and a basking bulb along with a che , they are daylight bright , I use them to get turtles eating out of hibernation ………. there is a physiological basis for light therapy …...



It wasn’t really the vet who offered force feeding. We brought it up. The vet suggested we get a small syringe and try and open his mouth and push in a purée. What kind of purée would we have to use or make? He’s still not eating.


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## Yvonne G (Jun 28, 2018)

Take your greens and chop them up into tiny pieces. Then shred a bit of cucumber - not much, just a couple teaspoonsful. Mix the cucumber with the greens until all the greens are coated with cucumber juice and pulp. This sometimes entices them to eat.


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## irohthetortoise (Jun 28, 2018)

Yvonne G said:


> Take your greens and chop them up into tiny pieces. Then shred a bit of cucumber - not much, just a couple teaspoonsful. Mix the cucumber with the greens until all the greens are coated with cucumber juice and pulp. This sometimes entices them to eat.



Okay I’ll try that and report back


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## irohthetortoise (Aug 3, 2018)

Hey everyone, so it’s been two months. Iroh still doesn’t really eat and he just sits in the corner. He poops occasionally which makes me think he’s eating something, but his food always looked untouched. I’m so happy he’s still with us but again it’s been two months and he’s still not eating from what I’ve observed. I tried all the advice given on here, from the vet, and other online sources. Is there anything other advice you all can give me?


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## katieandiggy (Aug 3, 2018)

Does he seem to wake up more when he has outside time?


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## irohthetortoise (Aug 3, 2018)

katieandiggy said:


> Does he seem to wake up more when he has outside time?



Not really when I bring him outside he just burrows into the grass then stays in the same position until we go in


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## irohthetortoise (Aug 7, 2018)

Yvonne G said:


> Take your greens and chop them up into tiny pieces. Then shred a bit of cucumber - not much, just a couple teaspoonsful. Mix the cucumber with the greens until all the greens are coated with cucumber juice and pulp. This sometimes entices them to eat.



Hey so here we are two months later and the other day I said I still hadn’t seen him eat WELL, today I chopped up some zucchini for myself for dinner and I tossed some small bits in his enclosure to see what what would happen. I even rubbed some of the store bought pellet mash on it and then picked up up and I pretended to eat it myself haha then I put him down to bask and when I came back he was going to town on the zucchini bits! Literally the first time I’ve ever seen him eat and he was really loving it. So that brings me tot he question, what are your thoughts on zucchini? I’ve read a few things on them and none bad, but I feel like they have so much water in them like cucumbers that it wouldn’t be best to have them be part of his regular diet. Thoughts?


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## Salspi (Aug 7, 2018)

I would feed anything it wants to eat until he was a little bit stronger. Then rotate in the correct diet. Congrats on not giving up!


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## matheny00 (Aug 12, 2018)

I have followed this story and never before have I seen so many people care so much for a little animal. I am so lucky and glad I found this group.

Plus great news on him finally eating


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## Gamera the Marginated (Aug 12, 2018)

Great news!


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## Yvonne G (Aug 12, 2018)

I generally always include a bit of grated zucchini when chopping up food for my babies.


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