# Sick Galapagos Tortoise



## Turtle Love (Dec 15, 2018)

Female, 25 yrs. Entire body swollen, worse in neck. She won't move or eat for 3 days. Same problem 6 months ago. Vet at University of FL in Gainesville thought low blood protein caused by inability of protein to pass thru gut into bloodstream causing body to compensate by leaking fluid. Flagyl helped but 6 months later problem returned. I'm wondering if it could be renal failure but don't know why vet didn't suggest renal problem. Flagyl isn't helping this time. She is very sick. Can anyone help?


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## KarenSoCal (Dec 16, 2018)

@Olddog 
Can you help?


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## Ayushjain101 (Dec 16, 2018)

Sounds like renal failure. Can you post some pictures?


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## jsheffield (Dec 16, 2018)

So sorry for your tort's troubles ... I hope they are resolved soon and simply.

Jamie


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## Tim Carlisle (Dec 16, 2018)

So sorry to hear. @Olddog ? @ALDABRAMAN ?


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## ALDABRAMAN (Dec 16, 2018)

Mizcreant said:


> @ALDABRAMAN ?



~ We have no experience with that species, however we have never had any similar experiences like that in our aldabra population.

@Olddog


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## Pastel Tortie (Dec 16, 2018)

@MKNOX - Do you have experience with Galapagos tortoises?


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## Turtle Love (Dec 16, 2018)

KarenSoCal said:


> @Olddog
> Can you help?


Thank you for trying to get help for me and my tortoise. It was so nice to see your message to Olddog. Thank you so much.


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## MKNOX (Dec 16, 2018)

Where are you located? I am a veterinary hospital manager. My wife is a vet. If you are close enough to west palm beach I can come and draw blood to check her values and help develop a treatment plan. Call me at 561-727-9288. My name is Michael Knox. I have a final exam tomorrow from 2-4 pm but you can reach me any other time. I hope my reply isn't too late.


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## Turtle Love (Dec 16, 2018)

Ayushjain101 said:


> Sounds like renal failure. Can you post some pictures?


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## MKNOX (Dec 16, 2018)

Turtle Love , I would start a differential list for your tortoise and work down it. The first 2, and most common are Hardware disease, and toxic substance ingestion. We need to know where and how she is housed and where and how she has been housed in the past. Big tortoises are very prone to eating things that shouldn't, any metallic objects that contain zinc, such as exterior screws and nails, or coins are the most common. They take a long time to present symptoms, as do toxic plant ingestion. Both problems are treatable but treatment will be aggressive and take time. She really needs an x-ray to check for metal ASAP.


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## MKNOX (Dec 16, 2018)

A common problem in older Galapagos and Aldabras tortoise is goiter. Little is known about why they get it or how to treat it, but it usually doesn't make them as sick as yours is. Please give us a complete history of her husbandry and habitat. We also need to know all medications she has had including any supplements.


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## Turtle Love (Dec 16, 2018)

MKNOX said:


> Where are you located? I am a veterinary hospital manager. My wife is a vet. If you are close enough to west palm beach I can come and draw blood to check her values and help develop a treatment plan. Call me at 561-727-9288. My name is Michael Knox. I have a final exam tomorrow from 2-4 pm but you can reach me any other time. I hope my reply isn't too late.


Thank you SO MUCH! But I am actually much closer to the University of FL in Gainesville where we took her 6 months ago when the swelling, weakness, and lethargy occurred the first time. She recovered with Flagyl back then but it isn't helping this time. Now that I think she might be in renal failure, I've taken her off the Flagyl as it is contraindicated. But I don't know what, if anything, WILL help. I could send you a copy of her lab work from 6 months ago if it would help. Are there any particular values you are interested in? The vet at UF said that kidney malfunction doesn't show up very well in lab work so not sure why he didn't entertain the idea that she could be in renal failure. Please look at the pictures I posted in this thread in response to a request.


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## MKNOX (Dec 16, 2018)

Turtle Love said:


> Thank you SO MUCH! But I am actually much closer to the University of FL in Gainesville where we took her 6 months ago when the swelling, weakness, and lethargy occurred the first time. She recovered with Flagyl back then but it isn't helping this time. Now that I think she might be in renal failure, I've taken her off the Flagyl as it is contraindicated. But I don't know what, if anything, WILL help. I could send you a copy of her lab work from 6 months ago if it would help. Are there any particular values you are interested in? The vet at UF said that kidney malfunction doesn't show up very well in lab work so not sure why he didn't entertain the idea that she could be in renal failure. Please look at the pictures I posted in this thread in response to a request.


We would be looking for elevated uric acid levels for kidney failure. I looked at your pictures and she does look goitered but that doesn't mesh with how sick she is. You haven't given her injectable vitamin A, or ivermectin have you? Both can cause symptoms similar to hers. Another consideration would be systemic sepsis resulting in renal or liver disease. Has she had diarrhea??? Very important question.


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## Turtle Love (Dec 16, 2018)

MKNOX said:


> A common problem in older Galapagos and Aldabras tortoise is goiter. Little is known about why they get it or how to treat it, but it usually doesn't make them as sick as yours is. Please give us a complete history of her husbandry and habitat. We also need to know all medications she has had including any supplements.


2 weeks after I got her 8 years ago, her bottom shell began falling off. And not just the shell, but a layer of hard porous material that appeared to be bone. Breeders told me nothing to worry about and she acted healthy. A year later she got very sick - systemic toxemia, severe anemia, and low blood protein but no swelling. Exotic pet specialist in Tampa put her on sulfameth/trimethoprim 800/160, 2 tabs every other day and kept her on it for about 2 years, testing her blood every few months for harmful reactions. We also took her to Marathon in the Keys for Dr. Mader to look at her shell. He thought something had damaged the shell but it was not progressive. She did great for 7 years until the swelling, sickness, and totally liquid stools last summer at which time we took her to UF. Lab work at that time showed extreme amount of bacteria and Protozoa (an extremely small strange Protozoa visable only under high powered microscope. Pathologist unable to identify the type). Vet put her on metroNIDAZOLE 500 mg, 4 1/2 tabs every 48 hours. After 3 weeks without improvement and fearing she would die any minute, I switched her back to the sulfameth/trimethoprim. Almost immediate improvement - she began eating, moving, and stools became firmer. But no improvement with swelling. Took her back to UF where after severe chastisement for changing her meds, the vet put her back on the Flagyl for 30 days and told us to let her eat only grass, weeds, hay and a little tortoise chow instead of the greens and veggies we had been feeding. He also had us change from peanut hay to orchard hay. The swelling subsided except for the bulge at her throat. But that too grew smaller and softer. Now, it's huge and hard again. She lives in her house which is kept at 85 degrees with an electric oil radiator-type heater. She has 2 pens to alternate between, each 1/8 acre for grazing and 2 automatic waterers.
As you said, goiter would not make her this sick. I'm worried about renal failure because of the amount and duration of antibiotics. They were necessary and saved her life for 7 years, but may be killing her now via renal failure. Thank you so much for your concern and willingness to help.


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## MKNOX (Dec 16, 2018)

I am pretty sure I just read a discussion on VIN regarding your tortoise. The vet was pretty perplexed but hypoalbuminemia and hypoprotinemia seemed to be the primary concern as well as elevated blood sugar. There did not seem to be a consensus as to a treatment plan other than diet change and antibiotics. Have you ever had her on enrofloxacin? I think a trip back to the vet school as soon as possible is your best bet.


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## Turtle Love (Dec 16, 2018)

View attachment 259740


MKNOX said:


> Turtle Love , I would start a differential list for your tortoise and work down it. The first 2, and most common are Hardware disease, and toxic substance ingestion. We need to know where and how she is housed and where and how she has been housed in the past. Big tortoises are very prone to eating things that shouldn't, any metallic objects that contain zinc, such as exterior screws and nails, or coins are the most common. They take a long time to present symptoms, as do toxic plant ingestion. Both problems are treatable but treatment will be aggressive and take time. She really needs an x-ray to check for metal ASAP.


She had full x-rays in Tampa 7 years ago and 2 MRI's (or CAT scans, can't remember, will look it up) 6 months ago at UF. Both times the vets assured me there were no metal objects as I was also concerned about the possibility. I also worry about the waterers. PVC pipe gets the water to the faucet. But garden hose gets the water from the faucet to the waterer. I flush the water out of the hose because bacteria grows in hoses. Not sure flushing works good enough though. There are no toxic plants or weeds that I know of. Only the same as our other gallop, sulcatas, redfoots, have growing in their pens. She was brought to Miami from Texas 8 years ago by the owner who I bought her from so no knowledge of how she was housed in Texas. She's in central FL with me.


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## MKNOX (Dec 16, 2018)

Are the leaves on the ground oak tree leaves ? Oak is toxic to tortoises both the leaves and acorns. Just a thought to add to the differential. I still think a trip to UF should be made as soon as you can. I don't know if Elliot Jacobsen still practices or if he retired but he is probably the best reptile vet in the world and he has run the exotic vet program for as long as I can remember. So at UF your girl is in good hands.


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## Turtle Love (Dec 16, 2018)

jsheffield said:


> So sorry for your tort's troubles ... I hope they are resolved soon and simply.
> 
> Jamie


Thank you so much. I just discovered this forum yesterday. Can't believe how helpful and concerned everyone is. People even texting other people to find help for me and my baby. Even people in the veterinarian world trying to help. It's awesome!


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## Turtle Love (Dec 16, 2018)

Mizcreant said:


> So sorry to hear. @Olddog ? @ALDABRAMAN ?


Thank you so much for trying to find help. So much appreciated!


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## Turtle Love (Dec 16, 2018)

MKNOX said:


> I am pretty sure I just read a discussion on VIN regarding your tortoise. The vet was pretty perplexed but hypoalbuminemia and hypoprotinemia seemed to be the primary concern as well as elevated blood sugar. There did not seem to be a consensus as to a treatment plan other than diet change and antibiotics. Have you ever had her on enrofloxacin? I think a trip back to the vet school as soon as possible is your best bet.


Thank you. What is VIN? Would I have access to it or would I need to be a vet? Very interested in what you are telling me. I will do research. I forgot to mention that her mouth has slime in it and she drools somewhat which must indicate something but I don't know what. I agree whole heartedly about getting her back to the vet which is what I have wanted to do. But my better half isn't willing. He just can't take it anymore. We have spent so much money on her and we just don't have anything left. That's why I'm on this forum looking for answers. I don't want her to die. I'm trying to keep her alive long enough for my better half to have a change of heart. I have never had her on enrofloxacin. I will look that up too.


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## Turtle Love (Dec 16, 2018)

MKNOX said:


> Are the leaves on the ground oak tree leaves ? Oak is toxic to tortoises both the leaves and acorns. Just a thought to add to the differential. I still think a trip to UF should be made as soon as you can. I don't know if Elliot Jacobsen still practices or if he retired but he is probably the best reptile vet in the world and he has run the exotic vet program for as long as I can remember. So at UF your girl is in good hands.


Wow. I didn't know oak leaves and acorns were toxic! Yes, the ground is COVERED with them. OMG. Thank you! I think squirrels eat the acorns but maybe they aren't toxic for mammals. Dr. Heard is the head of the department at UF now.


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## KarenSoCal (Dec 16, 2018)

Wow! Maybe the problem has been found!

Just googled...acorns can cause kidney problems!


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## Turtle Love (Dec 16, 2018)

Pastel Tortie said:


> @MKNOX - Do you have experience with Galapagos tortoises?


Thank you for trying to find help. Everyone on this thread is so concerned and helpful! Comforting! Makes me feel like I can find the answer with all these suggestions. Gives me hope. Again, thank you.


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## Turtle Love (Dec 16, 2018)

MKNOX said:


> We would be looking for elevated uric acid levels for kidney failure. I looked at your pictures and she does look goitered but that doesn't mesh with how sick she is. You haven't given her injectable vitamin A, or ivermectin have you? Both can cause symptoms similar to hers. Another consideration would be systemic sepsis resulting in renal or liver disease. Has she had diarrhea??? Very important question.


I just now found this post. Will go thru her records to see what her latest Uric acid level was and let you know. No, I have never given injectable vitamin A or ivermectin. As mentioned in a previous response, she DID have systemic septicemia 7 years ago. She was on sulfameth/trimethoprim 800/160mg, 2 tabs every other day for one and a half to two years. Her history is the reason for my concern about renal failure. I have given her an all-natural multivitamin on rare occasion but she usually spits them out. Also calcium supplement on rare occasion which I forgot to mention in an earlier response. She did have diarrhea the last time she swelled up last summer. She hasn't had it this time but nothing much comes out of her when she isn't eating. I can still manage to get her to drink though. Another member told me that oak leaves and acorns are toxic. I didn't know! All my tortoises eat them! Could this be part of the problem?


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## Turtle Love (Dec 16, 2018)

KarenSoCal said:


> Wow! Maybe the problem has been found!
> 
> Just googled...acorns can cause kidney problems!


Oh wow! I had never heard that they were toxic before coming on this forum. Thank you for googling it! Wow! If I can keep her alive until my better half hopefully changes his mind and helps me get her to a vet I will be sure to tell the vet about this. All my pens are COVERED with acorns and oak leaves. Also maple and camphor leaves. Geez, I had no idea. THANK YOU!


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## MKNOX (Dec 17, 2018)

Turtle Love , I would bet her systemic septicemia never fully resolved. It is very common for giant tortoise to have long term low grade sepsis with flare ups. Intestinal amoebensis is a leading cause of it and metronidazole and sulfa drugs are poor choices for some of the more virulent strains. She really needs to see a vet ASAP. I know you say your better half is resistant but she is going to die if not treated, and treated soon by a competent exotics vet. Please get him to reconsider, she is less than 1/4 of her expected life span and with care should live to be at least 75-80 years old.


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## TammyJ (Dec 17, 2018)

Really, really hope something can be done to save her!!! Definitely some large, long, warm soaks and take her out of the oak leaves/acorns situation!
All the very best with getting her back to the vet! Please do keep us informed. Such a wonderful, precious animal.


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## NorCal tortoise guy (Dec 17, 2018)

I'd think a call to Sam at Florida iguana might offer fresh insight he is a very helpful guy and has seen a lot in his time.


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## Olddog (Dec 17, 2018)

Turtle Love said:


> Female, 25 yrs. Entire body swollen, worse in neck. She won't move or eat for 3 days. Same problem 6 months ago. Vet at University of FL in Gainesville thought low blood protein caused by inability of protein to pass thru gut into bloodstream causing body to compensate by leaking fluid. Flagyl helped but 6 months later problem returned. I'm wondering if it could be renal failure but don't know why vet didn't suggest renal problem. Flagyl isn't helping this time. She is very sick. Can anyone help?



Sorry not to have responded sooner but have been busy, not checked Email, nor signed into forum in several days.


I am not a veterinarian, and nothing said should be construed as veterinary advice of any form or fashion. I suspect I was told about this animal in the spring or early summer from a friend who was called about this animal which had been seen at a UG clinic. At the time bloodwork was not complete. 


From examination of your photos, it would appear your tortoise is showing symptoms consistent with the syndrome I labeled “RGS” for discussion purposes in the “How Fast Should We Grow Giant Tortoises…” thread. Usually labs are normal or non-specific and thyroid studies are felt to be normal. Unfortunately, many Galapagos tortoises raised in this country have had similar problems when not raised primarily on grass or when supplemented with tortoise pellets. Young Galaps will eat and grow extremely rapidly if given daily easily digestible foods to satiety. High crude fiber diets appear to be beneficial if not essential. Whatever the etiology..


Bottom line: Water and Crude Fiber


In my limited experience, the three Galapagos tortoises which have demonstrated improvement from this multiple organ, edematous condition have shared conditions leading to improvement. The most important common factor is daily access to warm water in which to soak, sometimes many hours a day. They may construct a mud wallow full of water in a sunny spot and spend most of their time in same, day and night, ,..much more time than a tortoise will normally soak. In another case about which I have been told, the keeper took the edematous tortoise to a pool/pond for swimming daily. I am told the tortoise had documented weight loss with reduction in edema. Sadly, the keper’s supervisor ordered the pool soakings to cease and the tortoise ultimately perished. This occurred at a well know tortoise center. I have also been told of a case in Europe where soaking was also key to improvement. Except for personal experience with the one failing tortoise sent to us, the two tortoises mentioned above have not been seen by me, and the information is second hand. My direct experience with this is limited to one failing tortoise sent to our facility because there was nothing felt to lose. 


Initially the failing tortoise sent to our facility spend days in the water. She also had room for exercise, sun, etc. as you undoubtedly supply. Depending on your weather it may be difficult to achieve a warm enough soaking area. (At one time I kept a pair of Galapagos in a large plastic covered greenhouse contagious with a heated night shed during cooler months.) Perhaps you could utilize some form of temporary greenhouse to provide heat for a soaking pond. In my opinion, soaking is essential, deeper sometimes preferred over shallow. Perhaps some of this water effect is hydrostatic. Perhaps there is some colonic diffusion?


Grasses only!with perhaps rare supplementation with something like Purina senior horse feed for trace elements, etc. IMHO, the secret appears to include a necessity for high crude fiber. Virtually no produce, Masuri, etc. If given same, the tortoise will almost immediately worsen. I moved the tortoise in our care to another enclosure without a pond for 4 weeks while working in their normal enclosure with a pond and tortoise made mud wallows. In this short period, she become more edematous although still moving better than initially. She is now back with her pond, mud wallows, and better grass. 


With soakings over time you may be able to document some weight loss and reduction of edema. In our case, exercise tolerance/movement improved and quality of life seemed to improve. To my knowledge, no one knows if the associated cardiomyopathy, etc. is reversible. If it is, it likely is very slow to heal. Video of the tortoise with this type of condition sent to us and treated with “Tough Love” can be viewed in the “How Fast..” thread. 

We received one tortoise with the scutes off the plastron. This was likely due to sleeping on a heat source. The scutes have never regrown. 


I will pm you with a phone number should you wish to discuss. Again, I am not a veterinarian so take this for what it is.


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## mark1 (Dec 18, 2018)

you mention cardiomyopathy , are diuretics and ace inhibitors ever used in tortoises ?


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## Olddog (Dec 18, 2018)

mark1 said:


> you mention cardiomyopathy , are diuretics and ace inhibitors ever used in tortoises ?



Currently the evidence based recommendations suggests ACE inhibitors and one of three long acting Beta Blockers are effective in improving the EF in HF associated with CM. Diuretics are primarily used for symptomatic treatment and may or may not help improve the EF. 

I have no idea if they are being used clinically with tortoises.


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## MKNOX (Dec 18, 2018)

Olddog said:


> Sorry not to have responded sooner but have been busy, not checked Email, nor signed into forum in several days.
> 
> 
> I am not a veterinarian, and nothing said should be construed as veterinary advice of any form or fashion. I suspect I was told about this animal in the spring or early summer from a friend who was called about this animal which had been seen at a UG clinic. At the time bloodwork was not complete.
> ...


Excellent post. I am happy to see someone with experience in this condition respond


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## Bee62 (Dec 18, 2018)

Turtle Love said:


> 2 weeks after I got her 8 years ago, her bottom shell began falling off. And not just the shell, but a layer of hard porous material that appeared to be bone. Breeders told me nothing to worry about and she acted healthy. A year later she got very sick - systemic toxemia, severe anemia, and low blood protein but no swelling. Exotic pet specialist in Tampa put her on sulfameth/trimethoprim 800/160, 2 tabs every other day and kept her on it for about 2 years, testing her blood every few months for harmful reactions. We also took her to Marathon in the Keys for Dr. Mader to look at her shell. He thought something had damaged the shell but it was not progressive. She did great for 7 years until the swelling, sickness, and totally liquid stools last summer at which time we took her to UF. Lab work at that time showed extreme amount of bacteria and Protozoa (an extremely small strange Protozoa visable only under high powered microscope. Pathologist unable to identify the type). Vet put her on metroNIDAZOLE 500 mg, 4 1/2 tabs every 48 hours. After 3 weeks without improvement and fearing she would die any minute, I switched her back to the sulfameth/trimethoprim. Almost immediate improvement - she began eating, moving, and stools became firmer. But no improvement with swelling. Took her back to UF where after severe chastisement for changing her meds, the vet put her back on the Flagyl for 30 days and told us to let her eat only grass, weeds, hay and a little tortoise chow instead of the greens and veggies we had been feeding. He also had us change from peanut hay to orchard hay. The swelling subsided except for the bulge at her throat. But that too grew smaller and softer. Now, it's huge and hard again. She lives in her house which is kept at 85 degrees with an electric oil radiator-type heater. She has 2 pens to alternate between, each 1/8 acre for grazing and 2 automatic waterers.
> As you said, goiter would not make her this sick. I'm worried about renal failure because of the amount and duration of antibiotics. They were necessary and saved her life for 7 years, but may be killing her now via renal failure. Thank you so much for your concern and willingness to help.


Hello! A goiter does not make a tortoise sick because it is a sign for a severe sickness ! A goiter is often seen on aldabra or galapagos tortoises. These species are living on islands with salty water around. This salty waters contains iodine as well and it seems that these torts need iodine. 
Please read the thread I linked you below attentively. At the end we speak about iodine and how important it is for Galapagos and Aldabra tortoises.
https://www.tortoiseforum.org/threa...t-should-we-grow-long-lived-tortoises.168723/


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## Turtle Love (Dec 19, 2018)

MKNOX said:


> Turtle Love , I would bet her systemic septicemia never fully resolved. It is very common for giant tortoise to have long term low grade sepsis with flare ups. Intestinal amoebensis is a leading cause of it and metronidazole and sulfa drugs are poor choices for some of the more virulent strains. She really needs to see a vet ASAP. I know you say your better half is resistant but she is going to die if not treated, and treated soon by a competent exotics vet. Please get him to reconsider, she is less than 1/4 of her expected life span and with care should live to be at least 75-80 years old.


Awesome information about the sepsis! Thank you! I wonder if my vet knows this. Dutchess seemed fine for 7 years after her initial septicemia. Is 7 years too long of a gap in time for it to be recurrent sepsis? (Although she was on the sulfa drug for almost 2 years during that time.) Also, she didn't swell up back then. She did great on the sulfa drug at that time. But if underlying cause that you mention wasn't cured by the sulfa drug, then she needs something different. The UF vet 6 months ago didn't think it was septicemia. But septicemia is hard to diagnose isn't it? If it IS septicemia, can you tell me a class of drugs that would be better. The more I know, the more I will be able to figure out if my vet is suggesting the correct treatment. Many vets don't really know that much about galaps as far as abnormal range of test values. There aren't many baseline studies for vets to refer to. Thank you again for the info. Now, I am going to look up some of the words you used so I can see if they relate to any of the previous findings such as the Protozoa and bacteria found in her stools. Thank you again so very much. And yes, I will continue to work on my better half. I will show him your messages. If I can persuade him to help me save her one more time, maybe I can talk him into bringing her to YOU.


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## Turtle Love (Dec 19, 2018)

Bee62 said:


> Hello! A goiter does not make a tortoise sick because it is a sign for a severe sickness ! A goiter is often seen on aldabra or galapagos tortoises. These species are living on islands with salty water around. This salty waters contains iodine as well and it seems that these torts need iodine.
> Please read the thread I linked you below attentively. At the end we speak about iodine and how important it is for Galapagos and Aldabra tortoises.
> https://www.tortoiseforum.org/threa...t-should-we-grow-long-lived-tortoises.168723/


Hi! Thank you so much for your response. I have been giving my baby ground kelp granules. Not sure it's enough iodine though. Tried giving her liquid food-grade iodine. Nothing will disguise the taste of it. She spits it out and gets very upset, almost traumatized. I'm scared of adding more stress by doing something she hates so much. If she can be saved one more time, I will start getting real kelp seaweed for her. I have saved the article you provided. Been up all nite doing research so need some sleep but will read it as soon as I wake up. I'm getting so much great information in this forum. It gives me hope. Thank you


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## Turtle Love (Dec 19, 2018)

TammyJ said:


> Really, really hope something can be done to save her!!! Definitely some large, long, warm soaks and take her out of the oak leaves/acorns situation!
> All the very best with getting her back to the vet! Please do keep us informed. Such a wonderful, precious animal.


Thank you so much. I agree, such a wonderful precious animal. I think of them as a miracle of nature. And my baby is so sweet and affectionate! She is safe from the leaves right now because she can't walk off her porch. Although it would help, I can't soak her because she won't walk and I can't lift her. It seems like a 225 lbs. tortoise is the heaviest 225 lbs. a human will ever lift, lol! I'm going to show my better half all these messages. I understand his concern about all the money she has cost, only to get sick again. Men feel that burden. But I'm a woman so I don't care about the money. I just want to save her.


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## Bee62 (Dec 19, 2018)

@Turtle Love

What do you feed your tortoise ? Do you feed often kale ?
Does she eats fruits ? You can put iodine pills in a fruit she likes. The pills are very small.


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## Turtle Love (Dec 19, 2018)

Olddog said:


> Sorry not to have responded sooner but have been busy, not checked Email, nor signed into forum in several days.
> 
> 
> I am not a veterinarian, and nothing said should be construed as veterinary advice of any form or fashion. I suspect I was told about this animal in the spring or early summer from a friend who was called about this animal which had been seen at a UG clinic. At the time bloodwork was not complete.
> ...


Oh, GREAT response! Thank you! You are EXACTLY RIGHT! Vets and pathologists interpret lab tests as "normal" but no way to know what normal IS, and acknowledges some things don't manifest in lab work. So diagnosis and treatment seem to be experimental in many cases. Also right about the crude fiber. Vet told us to stop giving her produce. Let her eat only natural food, i.e. Hay, weeds, grass. But nothing grows this time of year so she would get only hay which she won't eat right now. UF vet said also chow, but Blue Pearl vet said none or very little chow. And you are the second person on this forum that is familiar with my tortoise. Is she famous, lol? She has been seen by Dr. Lightfoot in Tampa (several times), Dr. Heard at UF (several times), Dr. Mader in the Keys and Dr. Funk with a team from Arizona who was doing a study on galaps. Once in a blue moon, a vet can be found that really knows his stuff with galaps, or at least is aware of all the possible things that could be causing illness. Other than those rare heaven-sent vets, it seems that people who actually have first-hand experience raising them often know more about them than vets do. So your knowledge is very much appreciated. With respect to soaking, she won't walk and I can't lift her. But she slides herself out onto her ramp to get in the sun. If I dig a hole at the end of her ramp and fill it with warm water, maybe I could slide her down the ramp so she could soak. I can keep the water warm but I'm concerned about the cold air. Hopefully, she will slide herself back up the ramp when the warm sun moves off her. Definitely worth considering. Also want to ask if you have ever seen a lack of iodine make a Galap this sick? When she swelled up last summer and was very sick, she also had totally liquid stools. For 2 weeks I thought she was constipated because there was no poop in her pen. Instead, it was all liquid and soaked into the sand. But at that time, there were other issues. Extreme amount of bacteria and Protozoa in her stool, which means also in her gut I assume. Thank you again SO MUCH for taking time to respond and share your knowledge and experience. So many concerned and knowledgeable tortoise lovers here on the forum. Will keep everyone informed of progress and decisions to be made. Thanks again.


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## Turtle Love (Dec 19, 2018)

Bee62 said:


> @Turtle Love
> 
> What do you feed your tortoise ? Do you feed often kale ?
> Does she eats fruits ? You can put iodine pills in a fruit she likes. The pills are very small.


Hi. We had been feeding produce, hay and chow for years. But last summer when she got sick the vet said hay, grass, weeds, cactus - only foods that are natural for her with high fiber. With respect to iodine, the vet at the University of Florida told us the exact kind he wanted her to have because it comes in different forms and not all forms can be absorbed and utilized by the body. Hence, I've got this particular type that seems to traumatize her no matter how I try to disguise the flavor. I've tried hiding it in all kinds of fruit, even though she really shouldn't have fruit. But she gags, spits it out, and won't speak to me for a week afterwards, lol. I wish it was available in pill form. Have only fed kale on rare occasion. Have read that it's not good for them but it seems many people feed it with no problems. And when I read all the foods they shouldn't have, the only thing left is grass, weeds, hay and cactus.


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## Cheryl Hills (Dec 19, 2018)

Turtle Love said:


> Hi. We had been feeding produce, hay and chow for years. But last summer when she got sick the vet said hay, grass, weeds, cactus - only foods that are natural for her with high fiber. With respect to iodine, the vet at the University of Florida told us the exact kind he wanted her to have because it comes in different forms and not all forms can be absorbed and utilized by the body. Hence, I've got this particular type that seems to traumatize her no matter how I try to disguise the flavor. I've tried hiding it in all kinds of fruit, even though she really shouldn't have fruit. But she gags, spits it out, and won't speak to me for a week afterwards, lol. I wish it was available in pill form. Have only fed kale on rare occasion. Have read that it's not good for them but it seems many people feed it with no problems. And when I read all the foods they shouldn't have, the only thing left is grass, weeds, hay and cactus.


Maybe try the pill iodine. If she is not getting the one your vet wants, at least she will be getting something.


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## Ben02 (Dec 19, 2018)

What does Galapagos scepticemia look like as they are dark in colour??.

I wish You and your tort good luck


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## Turtle Love (Dec 19, 2018)

Turtle Love said:


> Female, 25 yrs. Entire body swollen, worse in neck. She won't move or eat for 3 days. Same problem 6 months ago. Vet at University of FL in Gainesville thought low blood protein caused by inability of protein to pass thru gut into bloodstream causing body to compensate by leaking fluid. Flagyl helped but 6 months later problem returned. I'm wondering if it could be renal failure but don't know why vet didn't suggest renal problem. Flagyl isn't helping this time. She is very sick. Can anyone help?


Hey Everyone, Great News! After reading everyone's helpful posts, my better half now realizes how urgent the situation is with my galap and has now agreed to help me get her to a vet!!!!! YAY!!! I'm so excited and happy I could burst! I just pray we can get her to a vet in time. They are so busy and always say they can't see her until after the holidays. But I will keep you all posted. Thank you again everyone. It's all because of your posts!


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## Turtle Love (Dec 19, 2018)

MKNOX said:


> Where are you located? I am a veterinary hospital manager. My wife is a vet. If you are close enough to west palm beach I can come and draw blood to check her values and help develop a treatment plan. Call me at 561-727-9288. My name is Michael Knox. I have a final exam tomorrow from 2-4 pm but you can reach me any other time. I hope my reply isn't too late.


Hi Mr. Knox. Great news! After reading these posts, my better half is now convinced of the urgency for my galap. She seems quite weak today as though she is getting worse. I left a message on your recorder. Is your wife an exotic pet specialist? If so, can we bring her to you and your wife? Please call me as soon as you can. Is there room for her at your facility?


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## Turtle Love (Dec 19, 2018)

Ben02 said:


> What does Galapagos scepticemia look like as they are dark in colour??.
> 
> I wish You and your tort good luck


Thank you. With my tortoise, the septicemia wasn't so much in how she looked. It was in how she acted. Not eating, not moving, sleeping all the time, very weak. The one thing that was visible though was that her mouth was extremely pale from anemia. Her tongue was almost white and her inner eyelids were white. She was very sick.


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## SBTortMom (Dec 19, 2018)

Turtle Love said:


> Thank you SO MUCH! But I am actually much closer to the University of FL in Gainesville where we took her 6 months ago when the swelling, weakness, and lethargy occurred the first time. She recovered with Flagyl back then but it isn't helping this time. Now that I think she might be in renal failure, I've taken her off the Flagyl as it is contraindicated. But I don't know what, if anything, WILL help. I could send you a copy of her lab work from 6 months ago if it would help. Are there any particular values you are interested in? The vet at UF said that kidney malfunction doesn't show up very well in lab work so not sure why he didn't entertain the idea that she could be in renal failure. Please look at the pictures I posted in this thread in response to a request.



Lab work from six months ago is likely not meaningful now unless compared to current (comprehensive) values. If me I’d avail myself of the kindly offer from the Vet Hospital Manager and DVM (assuming that both have considerable Herp experience). Looks & sounds to me as if your poor tort is i or near critical condition. Hoping you can get her help in time.


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## Ben02 (Dec 19, 2018)

Turtle Love said:


> Thank you. With my tortoise, the septicemia wasn't so much in how she looked. It was in how she acted. Not eating, not moving, sleeping all the time, very weak. The one thing that was visible though was that her mouth was extremely pale from anemia. Her tongue was almost white and her inner eyelids were white. She was very sick.


That makes sense,

I hope everything goes well for you


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## Turtle Love (Dec 20, 2018)

SBTortMom said:


> Lab work from six months ago is likely not meaningful now unless compared to current (comprehensive) values. If me I’d avail myself of the kindly offer from the Vet Hospital Manager and DVM (assuming that both have considerable Herp experience). Looks & sounds to me as if your poor tort is i or near critical condition. Hoping you can get her help in time.


Hi SBTortMom. Thank you for your response. YES! -- I'm TRYING to take your advice! I posted a message to the Vet Hospital Manager yesterday AND left a message on his phone but have heard nothing back from him. Getting worried.


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## SULCY (Dec 20, 2018)

I know Camp Kenan is not a great source but a video I have seen he went to someones house who raises Galapagos Tortoises. He had a sick tortoise that they found out gets very sick around once a year not eating can barely walk and they found it was endophytes in the hay causing the animal to get very sick. He now tests the hay before feeding, No idea if that is your problem but maybe something to check.


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## Pastel Tortie (Dec 20, 2018)

Turtle Love said:


> Hi SBTortMom. Thank you for your response. YES! -- I'm TRYING to take your advice! I posted a message to the Vet Hospital Manager yesterday AND left a message on his phone but have heard nothing back from him. Getting worried.


I know @MKNOX had a final earlier this week. I don't know if he might have had any other finals this week. If he did, that or some emergency at the veterinary hospital might temporarily affect his availability.

However, it is extremely clear that @MKNOX cares deeply about the health and need for urgent care for your Duchess. She may be a Galop, but she's still your baby. I'm sure he will be checking in just as soon as he is able.


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## Turtle Love (Dec 20, 2018)

Pastel Tortie said:


> I know @MKNOX had a final earlier this week. I don't know if he might have had any other finals this week. If he did, that or some emergency at the veterinary hospital might temporarily affect his availability.
> 
> However, it is extremely clear that @MKNOX cares deeply about the health and need for urgent care for your Duchess. She may be a Galop, but she's still your baby. I'm sure he will be checking in just as soon as he is able.


Oh, I SO HOPE you are right. @MKNOX seems so knowledgeable, as though he is aware of ALL the possibilities about what could be wrong with my baby. It seems like he won't get stuck in one paradigm of thought. I'm worried that it's so close to Christmas, I won't be able to get ANYONE to see Dutchess until after the holidays. WAY too long! Also worried that maybe @MKNOX and his wife have gone somewhere for Christmas and not even available right now because he seemed so concerned and aware of the urgency, but now nothing.


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## Pastel Tortie (Dec 20, 2018)

@Turtle Love - I just tried starting a new conversation (personal message) with both you and @MKNOX... and I got an error message that the system couldn't find either of you. It's possible there's a glitch interfering with notifications or @MKNOX's ability to log in. Stay tuned.


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## Turtle Love (Dec 20, 2018)

SULCY said:


> I know Camp Kenan is not a great source but a video I have seen he went to someones house who raises Galapagos Tortoises. He had a sick tortoise that they found out gets very sick around once a year not eating can barely walk and they found it was endophytes in the hay causing the animal to get very sick. He now tests the hay before feeding, No idea if that is your problem but maybe something to check.


Hi SULCY. Is it the video where the man found his galap bleeding from the nose and mouth and it was found to have fungus growing in its lungs? It had a feeding tube inserted and then the owner found the fungus in the hay? If that's the same video, I DID see it. It left me shaking my head and wondering "how could this happen?" It's good to be aware of the possibility so thank you for reminding me of it.


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## Turtle Love (Dec 20, 2018)

Pastel Tortie said:


> @Turtle Love - I just tried starting a new conversation (personal message) with both you and @MKNOX... and I got an error message that the system couldn't find either of you. It's possible there's a glitch interfering with notifications or @MKNOX's ability to log in. Stay tuned.


Gosh! THANK YOU!!! I'm computer illiterate and would have no idea how to do what you are doing to check the system. Lord, I can't even figure out how to unwatch a thread and don't even know how I watched it to begin with! And this forum is so confusing to me that I think I have replied to MYSELF a few times and I totally LOST a lengthy private message that someone spent a lot of time typing to try to help me. In short, I'm a DANGER to this forum! LOL! But I also called @MKNOX and left him a message. Still nothing. Worried he may be out of town for Christmas and unavailable.


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## Pastel Tortie (Dec 20, 2018)

Turtle Love said:


> Gosh! THANK YOU!!! I'm computer illiterate and would have no idea how to do what you are doing to check the system. Lord, I can't even figure out how to unwatch a thread and don't even know how I watched it to begin with! And this forum is so confusing to me that I think I have replied to MYSELF a few times and I totally LOST a lengthy private message that someone spent a lot of time typing to try to help me. In short, I'm a DANGER to this forum! LOL! But I also called @MKNOX and left him a message. Still nothing. Worried he may be out of town for Christmas and unavailable.


Well, the extent of my ability to check the forum system is to ask @Yvonne G to look into it and to please contact Josh. 

Unfortunately, there are a LOT of veterinarians and veterinary hospitals in the West Palm Beach area. That's great for all the people living near West Palm Beach, but not so good for us trying to narrow down WHICH veterinary hospital we're looking for.

Do you know if his phone number is a mobile or a landline? You might try a text message to contact him as well. Those don't need much bandwidth to go through.


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## Turtle Love (Dec 20, 2018)

Pastel Tortie said:


> Well, the extent of my ability to check the forum system is to ask @Yvonne G to look into it and to please contact Josh.
> 
> Unfortunately, there are a LOT of veterinarians and veterinary hospitals in the West Palm Beach area. That's great for all the people living near West Palm Beach, but not so good for us trying to narrow down WHICH veterinary hospital we're looking for.
> 
> Do you know if his phone number is a mobile or a landline? You might try a text message to contact him as well. Those don't need much bandwidth to go through.


Thank you so much! No, I don't know if he provided his cell phone number or the hospital number. Let me try doing a reverse search. Be right back.


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## Turtle Love (Dec 20, 2018)

Pastel Tortie said:


> Well, the extent of my ability to check the forum system is to ask @Yvonne G to look into it and to please contact Josh.
> 
> Unfortunately, there are a LOT of veterinarians and veterinary hospitals in the West Palm Beach area. That's great for all the people living near West Palm Beach, but not so good for us trying to narrow down WHICH veterinary hospital we're looking for.
> 
> Do you know if his phone number is a mobile or a landline? You might try a text message to contact him as well. Those don't need much bandwidth to go through.


Reverse lookup says it's a mobile phone number. Doesn't say whose number it is though.


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## Pastel Tortie (Dec 20, 2018)

Turtle Love said:


> Reverse lookup says it's a mobile phone number. Doesn't say whose number it is though.


Your number should show up on the caller ID for his mobile, right? Try sending a text message, indicate it's from @Turtle Love about the sick Galop.


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## Turtle Love (Dec 20, 2018)

Pastel Tortie said:


> Your number should show up on the caller ID for his mobile, right? Try sending a text message, indicate it's from @Turtle Love about the sick Galop.


Ok. Sent him two text messages. We'll see what happens.


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## Pastel Tortie (Dec 20, 2018)

Turtle Love said:


> Worried he may be out of town for Christmas and unavailable.


Try not to worry. I know that may be easier said than done.  I doubt he'd be out of town AND unavailable. It's pretty hardwired into those veterinary types to worry about their patients and to be thinking about those mystery cases that haven't been solved yet. It's never far from their minds.


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## Turtle Love (Dec 20, 2018)

Pastel Tortie said:


> Try not to worry. I know that may be easier said than done.  I doubt he'd be out of town AND unavailable. It's pretty hardwired into those veterinary types to worry about their patients and to be thinking about those mystery cases that haven't been solved yet. It's never far from their minds.


Storming where I am. Checked to see if west palm beach three and a half hours south has any power outages that could explain @MKNOX rather abrupt disappearance. Not finding any outages. Maybe he is assisting his wife in surgery or something. Really expected to hear from him yesterday evening though.


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## Pastel Tortie (Dec 20, 2018)

Turtle Love said:


> Storming where I am. Checked to see if west palm beach three and a half hours south has any power outages that could explain @MKNOX rather abrupt disappearance. Not finding any outages. Maybe he is assisting his wife in surgery or something. Really expected to hear from him yesterday evening though.


I'd be more concerned about communications providers having outages... Any number of things could make it harder to receive messages or make it more difficult to log in to the forum.


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## Turtle Love (Dec 20, 2018)

Pastel Tortie said:


> Try not to worry. I know that may be easier said than done.  I doubt he'd be out of town AND unavailable. It's pretty hardwired into those veterinary types to worry about their patients and to be thinking about those mystery cases that haven't been solved yet. It's never far from their minds.


He CALLED! I got to talk to him for quite a while! Now, I gotta get to work doing everything he told me to do. Will keep you all informed.


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## Turtle Love (Dec 20, 2018)

Pastel Tortie said:


> I'd be more concerned about communications providers having outages... Any number of things could make it harder to receive messages or make it more difficult to log in to the forum.


Oh, you're RIGHT! I didn't think of provider outages. But it's OK because he CALLED me. I got to talk to him for quite a while and you were right - he's very concerned and keeping a close eye on the forum. He has just been VERY busy.


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## Pastel Tortie (Dec 20, 2018)

@Turtle Love -- While you're waiting, you can channel some of that nervous energy into checking and double checking that you have everything you need ready for transporting Duchess. Now is a good time to make sure you have all your supplies on hand, wash bins and blankets, clean out your vehicle, check the air in the tires, download pictures and reports, print anything out that you've been meaning to, copy files to a USB or portable drive (so you can take them with you), charge or replace batteries, make a list and locate all those items you would like to take with you (but probably wouldn't remember all of them if you were suddenly in a rush to head out).


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## Turtle Love (Dec 20, 2018)

Pastel Tortie said:


> @Turtle Love -- While you're waiting, you can channel some of that nervous energy into checking and double checking that you have everything you need ready for transporting Duchess. Now is a good time to make sure you have all your supplies on hand, wash bins and blankets, clean out your vehicle, check the air in the tires, download pictures and reports, print anything out that you've been meaning to, copy files to a USB or portable drive (so you can take them with you), charge or replace batteries, make a list and locate all those items you would like to take with you (but probably wouldn't remember all of them if you were suddenly in a rush to head out).


Thank you for the good advice and the list of things I need to remember to take with us. We've transported Dutchess several times but I always forget something. One thing I'm gonna remember for sure is a printout of some of these posts with all the good ideas and suggestions. And also a printout of the article about how fast to grow giant tortoises and soaking them. Mr. @MKNOX pointed me to that article several times during our conversation.


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## Turtle Love (Dec 20, 2018)

Turtle Love said:


> Female, 25 yrs. Entire body swollen, worse in neck. She won't move or eat for 3 days. Same problem 6 months ago. Vet at University of FL in Gainesville thought low blood protein caused by inability of protein to pass thru gut into bloodstream causing body to compensate by leaking fluid. Flagyl helped but 6 months later problem returned. I'm wondering if it could be renal failure but don't know why vet didn't suggest renal problem. Flagyl isn't helping this time. She is very sick. Can anyone help?


Ok. Here's what's happening. Got an emergency appointment tomorrow at University of FL in Gainesville at 2pm tomorrow. They would have taken her today but we could have never gotten her loaded and transported there before they closed. Got her to wake up and sip a little water today. Afterward, she tried to turn around but couldn't. But the fact that she tried somehow made me think she can make it until tomorrow. Praying it's true.


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## Pastel Tortie (Dec 20, 2018)

Turtle Love said:


> Ok. Here's what's happening. Got an emergency appointment tomorrow at University of FL in Gainesville at 2pm tomorrow. They would have taken her today but we could have never gotten her loaded and transported there before they closed. Got her to wake up and sip a little water today. Afterward, she tried to turn around but couldn't. But the fact that she tried somehow made me think she can make it until tomorrow. Praying it's true.


I realize tortoises don't possess or process emotions the way humans do, but I imagine they do pick up on it when one of their humans is stressed and upset. This afternoon was probably the first time in a long while that Duchess has seen you so positive, so hopeful and excited about tomorrow. She may have no idea what tomorrow has in store, but she can tell that you are in a better mood now. Reducing your level of anxiety might directly or indirect reduce hers as well.


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## NorCal tortoise guy (Dec 20, 2018)

hoping for her recovery


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## Turtle Love (Dec 20, 2018)

Pastel Tortie said:


> I realize tortoises don't possess or process emotions the way humans do, but I imagine they do pick up on it when one of their humans is stressed and upset. This afternoon was probably the first time in a long while that Duchess has seen you so positive, so hopeful and excited about tomorrow. She may have no idea what tomorrow has in store, but she can tell that you are in a better mood now. Reducing your level of anxiety might directly or indirect reduce hers as well.


Yes, I do my best to take a deep breath and settle down before visiting her. So afraid she won't make it for us to get her to the vet. But have to put it out of my mind when I'm with her.


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## Turtle Love (Dec 20, 2018)

Pastel Tortie said:


> @Turtle Love -- While you're waiting, you can channel some of that nervous energy into checking and double checking that you have everything you need ready for transporting Duchess. Now is a good time to make sure you have all your supplies on hand, wash bins and blankets, clean out your vehicle, check the air in the tires, download pictures and reports, print anything out that you've been meaning to, copy files to a USB or portable drive (so you can take them with you), charge or replace batteries, make a list and locate all those items you would like to take with you (but probably wouldn't remember all of them if you were suddenly in a rush to head out).


LOL!!! Was just reviewing your list again of things to get ready for tomorrow. I think you thought of EVERYTHING.


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## Pastel Tortie (Dec 20, 2018)

Turtle Love said:


> LOL!!! Was just reviewing your list again of things to get ready for tomorrow. I think you thought of EVERYTHING.


I try.  Chalk part of it up to my emergency management background.


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## Pastel Tortie (Dec 21, 2018)

@Turtle Love -- Thinking of you and Duchess today and sending warmest, most positive and hopeful thoughts for her trip to UF today.

The weather may be challenging today. Safe travels, and best wishes.


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## Turtle Love (Dec 21, 2018)

Pastel Tortie said:


> @Turtle Love -- Thinking of you and Duchess today and sending warmest, most positive and hopeful thoughts for her trip to UF today.
> 
> The weather may be challenging today. Safe travels, and best wishes.


Yes, it was a 3 and 1/2 hour cold ride for Dutchess. Not good but had to get her to the vet.


Pastel Tortie said:


> @Turtle Love -- Thinking of you and Duchess today and sending warmest, most positive and hopeful thoughts for her trip to UF today.
> 
> The weather may be challenging today. Safe travels, and best wishes.


And thank you SO MUCH for your concern and great advice!


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## Turtle Love (Dec 21, 2018)

Turtle Love said:


> Female, 25 yrs. Entire body swollen, worse in neck. She won't move or eat for 3 days. Same problem 6 months ago. Vet at University of FL in Gainesville thought low blood protein caused by inability of protein to pass thru gut into bloodstream causing body to compensate by leaking fluid. Flagyl helped but 6 months later problem returned. I'm wondering if it could be renal failure but don't know why vet didn't suggest renal problem. Flagyl isn't helping this time. She is very sick. Can anyone help?


Hi everyone. What a hard day! Took HOURS for us to get Dutchess loaded. Truck won't fit thru the gates and she can't walk so had to wheel her to truck. We spilled our guts to get her on handcart then couldn't roll it in the sand. Spilled more guts to tip her on her side to get her in wheelbarrow laying on its side. Then we couldn't push the wheelbarrow upright. So took her cart to her but wheels dug into sand and wouldn't roll. When we finally got her in the cart, we couldn't push the cart up the ramp onto the truck. Her appointment was at 2pm. We finally got her loaded at 3pm. Then 2 and 1/2 hour drive became 3 and 1/2 because accident on interstate. Finally got there close to 6pm after they closed. But God Bless the vet. She WAITED for us! Think I'm suffering from PTSD now! LOL. With first exam, the vet is guessing heart failure or renal failure. Ugh! We got her there so late that they can't run any tests now until Monday. But I know she's warm and in good hands till then. Thought you would all want to know.


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## MKNOX (Dec 21, 2018)

Turtle Love, I am glad to hear that you got her to U.F. again I am sorry for the delay in getting back to you this week. I was crazy busy with work, finals, and transitioning over to a new payroll company at tha clinic. Among a million other things. I was very happy to finally talk to you. I am praying for your girl. Thank you for the text regarding her appt. Please keep me updated as to her progress. Once she is home I will try to get over to meet her with my wife so we can establish a client/ patient relationship. Once we do that I can be much more helpful over the phone without legal/ethical concerns. Again I am praying for you both.


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## Turtle Love (Dec 21, 2018)

MKNOX said:


> Turtle Love, I am glad to hear that you got her to U.F. again I am sorry for the delay in getting back to you this week. I was crazy busy with work, finals, and transitioning over to a new payroll company at tha clinic. Among a million other things. I was very happy to finally talk to you. I am praying for your girl. Thank you for the text regarding her appt. Please keep me updated as to her progress. Once she is home I will try to get over to meet her with my wife so we can establish a client/ patient relationship. Once we do that I can be much more helpful over the phone without legal/ethical concerns. Again I am praying for you both.


Thank you so much. You have already been so helpful and given me hope. AND helped convince my better half to get her to a vet! Heart failure seems to be the preliminary diagnosis. Or possibly renal failure. Don't know the prognosis for those diagnoses but neither sounds good to me. Just have to wait and see what happens. I asked the vet about ameba related to systemic septicemia. She felt sure they would have found signs of ameba in the fecal material. She said they tested everything six ways to Sunday with the stool sample 6 months ago. 
Yes, I would LOVE for us to develop a client/patient relationship. And don't worry at all about being so busy. I understand completely. One thing I learned today is that me and David have GOT to come up with a better plan for loading Dutchess. It was a NIGHTMARE and so hard on her and David both. I was so afraid that we weren't going to be able to get her on the truck which meant not getting her to the vet. Definitely considering getting one of those hydraulic-lift tables you mentioned which is what the vet staff used to get her OFF the truck. Feeling so much better now that she's there, safe and warm. Thank you again so much for your advice and concern. Will keep you informed on her progress. They are going to use diagnostic ultrasound to look at her heart. YOU could have done that, LOL.


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## KarenSoCal (Dec 21, 2018)

I am so very glad to hear you got her there, but sorry it was so difficult. Please keep all of us updated! I know I am concerned for her, and praying too. I want to see this girl healthy!


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## Pastel Tortie (Dec 22, 2018)

I'm so glad to hear you were able to get Dutchess to UF. Sounds like you all had a very challenging day (and journey)!

I have little to no idea what an appropriate hydraulic lift would cost, but if it turns out to be a significant investment, I would suggest looking into other options for moving a giant tortoise in the meantime.

Does anyone have suggestions? Dutchess can't walk on her own, so think options for moving very heavy, large, precious furniture.

The sand seems to pose additional difficulty, both for loading Dutchess onto a cart and for moving anything wheeled. I'm wondering if you could cut some plywood boards to make a temporary path across the sandy area so the wheels won't sink into the sand. 

I don't remember if you said you had a ramp for the truck, but even with a ramp, Dutchess is a heavy load to push or lift. Perhaps someone could rig a pulley system to help get her up the ramp?


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## Turtle Love (Dec 24, 2018)

Turtle Love said:


> Female, 25 yrs. Entire body swollen, worse in neck. She won't move or eat for 3 days. Same problem 6 months ago. Vet at University of FL in Gainesville thought low blood protein caused by inability of protein to pass thru gut into bloodstream causing body to compensate by leaking fluid. Flagyl helped but 6 months later problem returned. I'm wondering if it could be renal failure but don't know why vet didn't suggest renal problem. Flagyl isn't helping this time. She is very sick. Can anyone help?


Big day for Dutchess today! She has been resting peacefully at UF for 2 days. Today, she gets her cardiac ultrasound test. They will probably have the results today and will call me. The staff has been so good, calling me every morning to tell me how she's doing (letting me know she made it thru another nite). Will update this forum as soon as I know the test results.


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## Bee62 (Dec 24, 2018)

Turtle Love said:


> Big day for Dutchess today! She has been resting peacefully at UF for 2 days. Today, she gets her cardiac ultrasound test. They will probably have the results today and will call me. The staff has been so good, calling me every morning to tell me how she's doing (letting me know she made it thru another nite). Will update this forum as soon as I know the test results.


When she is in a reptile clinic let the vet`s there check her thyroid function ! I am very sure that this is the whole problem. And they can give her iodine that she needs. Thyroid malfunction causes heart, kidney and liver problems. A vet should know that.


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## Yvonne G (Dec 24, 2018)

Bee62 said:


> When she is in a reptile clinic let the vet`s there check her thyroid function ! I am very sure that this is the whole problem. And they can give her iodine that she needs. Thyroid malfunction causes heart, kidney and liver problems. A vet should know that.


And goiter (thyroid problem) is quite common in the Galop.


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## Bee62 (Dec 24, 2018)

Yvonne G said:


> And goiter (thyroid problem) is quite common in the Galop.


Yes, I agree. Galop and aldabra tortoises have sometimes thyroid problems.
I read a lot about it since I`ve got my little aldabra tortoises. And that is why I add once a week to their soak water an iodine pill.


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## Pastel Tortie (Dec 24, 2018)

Turtle Love said:


> Big day for Dutchess today! She has been resting peacefully at UF for 2 days. Today, she gets her cardiac ultrasound test. They will probably have the results today and will call me. The staff has been so good, calling me every morning to tell me how she's doing (letting me know she made it thru another nite). Will update this forum as soon as I know the test results.


We know how stressful this is for both you and Dutchess, and we realize there will be times when you're too exhausted -- mentally, physically, and emotionally -- to provide much of an update. Just let us know as you're able. We're pulling for her. 

UF has an excellent veterinary program and extensive resources. Dutchess will be in excellent hands. 

Warmest thoughts.
-Anne


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## KAGDR (Dec 26, 2018)

Would this work as far as moving a large tortoise -they make these sling type things with handles for Giant breed dogs, 
they get weak or loose function of their hips/back legs, and the sling things have shoulder straps so you dont break your back 
lifting them to take them out to go piddle. My one Dane was 200 lbs and I could take him outside by myself ,
even though he could barely walk 
If you used one, you'd probably need 2 people still ,or modify one to get the baby high enough to go on one of those garden carts,with big fat tires ,
you could wheel the tortoise right up into or out the truck. You'd need some kind of safety straps. 
Or you could even make one of those garden carts into a low rider..So you could tip him to one side ,
slip the cart next to him and slide him on to the cart ,like a tortoise dolly ,you just need the big fat tires and heavy frame....


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## StephandTay (Dec 27, 2018)

Anxiously awaiting information on the test, any news?


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## Turtle Love (Dec 27, 2018)

Bee62 said:


> When she is in a reptile clinic let the vet`s there check her thyroid function ! I am very sure that this is the whole problem. And they can give her iodine that she needs. Thyroid malfunction causes heart, kidney and liver problems. A vet should know that.


You are exactly right! Her diagnosis after the ultrasound test is now hypothyroidism and protein-losing enteropathy, the cause of which is unknown to the vet. The vet said that the iodine wasn't helping because the thyroid isn't functioning, meaning it isn't producing the hormone. So now she has to take thyroid pills. Already seeing improvement!


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## Turtle Love (Dec 27, 2018)

Yvonne G said:


> And goiter (thyroid problem) is quite common in the Galop.


And that is exactly what she has - an enlarged nonfunctioning thyroid gland and a goiter! Geez, if you all could prescribe medicine, Dutchess wouldn't have needed a vet, lol!


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## Turtle Love (Dec 27, 2018)

Pastel Tortie said:


> We know how stressful this is for both you and Dutchess, and we realize there will be times when you're too exhausted -- mentally, physically, and emotionally -- to provide much of an update. Just let us know as you're able. We're pulling for her.
> 
> UF has an excellent veterinary program and extensive resources. Dutchess will be in excellent hands.
> 
> ...


Anne, if only there was a "love" button to click for your post, I would have clicked it. I have been so worried about not updating for all the wonderful people who have been so concerned. Three long road trips in 4 days, 2 for Dutchess and one on Christmas plus taking care of all the other turtles. The trips for Dutchess ended up being 3 and 1/2 and 4 hours because of road construction. We've been so tired just like you said. But now I can't wait to tell everyone how Dutchess is doing.


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## Turtle Love (Dec 27, 2018)

Cheryl Hills said:


> Do realize how big a Galapagos tortoise is! This person has done very well with her tortoise. She has provided everything it needs plus take her to the vet as needed. Where do you see animal cruelty? You should read the whole story and understand what is going on before you accuse someone of this.





StephandTay said:


> Anxiously awaiting information on the test, any news?





StephandTay said:


> Anxiously awaiting information on the test, any news?


Hi, I'm so sorry for not updating sooner. We got so tired. But yes, there is news and it's GOOD. Dutchess has hypothyroidism. Her thyroid gland is enlarged and nonfunctional. So she has to take thyroid medication probably for the rest of her life. But as far as the vet can tell, there is no sign of heart failure or renal failure which were my two biggest fears. She is already showing improvement - she can walk now! It's amazing! Thank you so much for your concern. It gives me such a warm feeling inside from all the concerned and helpful people in this forum.


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## Turtle Love (Dec 27, 2018)

Yvonne G said:


> I agree, Cheryl. If they had read further they would realize that the tortoise is at the University of Florida's vet right now.


Thank you for explaining to the new member. He probably gets lost amid the posts like I do. I type a reply, but it doesn't "land" under the post I replied to. It copies the post at the bottom of the page along with my reply. I THINK that's what happens, but not sure. I have trouble finding my way around. I get so confused that I think I have replied to MYSELF a few times! As for the "take a taxi" post, it made me laugh. I'm amazed at how many people don't know what a Galapagos tortoise is. I thought EVERYONE watched Nat Geo, lol.


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## Turtle Love (Dec 27, 2018)

KAGDR said:


> Would this work as far as moving a large tortoise -they make these sling type things with handles for Giant breed dogs,
> they get weak or loose function of their hips/back legs, and the sling things have shoulder straps so you dont break your back
> lifting them to take them out to go piddle. My one Dane was 200 lbs and I could take him outside by myself ,
> even though he could barely walk
> ...


Big fat tires would make a HUGE difference. Dutchess weighs 211lbs now, only 11 lbs more than your awesome Dane. So maybe a sling could work although I would be afraid of her tipping and sliding out of it.The trouble for my husband is ME! I'm a 115 lbs weakling which is a problem if I'm all he has available to help him. 200 pounds on my shoulder might drive me into the ground, lol. Tortoises are so dense and solid with totally inflexible bodies and slippery shells. Fat tires would DEFINITELY help. Thank you for your suggestions. I'll show your post to my husband.


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## Turtle Love (Dec 27, 2018)

vladimir said:


> Can you imagine the Uber driver's face when they arrive to pick up 1 person and 1 Galap [emoji23]


LOL! I'm not sure how many taxi drivers (if ANY) would put a large tortoise in their vehicle even if it was in a large tub. But the drive took 3 and 1/2 hours to get Dutchess to the vet and 4 hours to go back to pick her up. Lots of road construction caused traffic jams. The taxi would have cost more than the vet, lol.


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## Turtle Love (Dec 27, 2018)

Pastel Tortie said:


> I was thinking of the look on the Uber driver's face, too. That would be hilarious!
> 
> Wanted: Moving company for one piece of priceless art. Extra large, 200 pounds, extremely delicate. Must travel top side up. Climate control and lifting equipment required. Submit quotes to @Turtle Love with copies of license, insurance, and bond.
> 
> @Turtle Love, I hope that gives you a much needed laugh.


LOVE this!!! I'm laughing out loud! Yes, a much needed laugh. Seriously thinking of copying and saving this post in case I need it in the future!


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## Turtle Love (Dec 27, 2018)

TripodThe3FootedGecko said:


> I wish you the best of luck with your tortoise!
> 
> For the post up on this page, the Uber driver may have to rent a uhaul truck!


LOL!!! Or a stretch limo! Thanks for the good wishes. I think she's going to be ok. She just needs to take thyroid pills. Much better diagnosis than the ones I feared (heart, liver or renal failure).


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## Turtle Love (Dec 27, 2018)

KarenSoCal said:


> I am so very glad to hear you got her there, but sorry it was so difficult. Please keep all of us updated! I know I am concerned for her, and praying too. I want to see this girl healthy!


Thank you so much for your concern and prayers. I think Dutchess will be ok. She has thyroid disease! Not good, but not nearly as bad as the things I feared I don't think. She has to take thyroid pills. Iodine wasn't helping because her thyroid isn't producing the hormone she needs. But her swelling has already gone down a lot and she can walk now! It's amazing!


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## Turtle Love (Dec 27, 2018)

NorCal tortoise guy said:


> hoping for her recovery


Thank you so much. I think she will be ok. The vet diagnosed thyroid disease so she just has to take thyroid pills. She's improving already! Swelling has gone down a lot and she can walk now! Thank you again for your concern.


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## Turtle Love (Dec 27, 2018)

Turtle Love said:


> Big day for Dutchess today! She has been resting peacefully at UF for 2 days. Today, she gets her cardiac ultrasound test. They will probably have the results today and will call me. The staff has been so good, calling me every morning to tell me how she's doing (letting me know she made it thru another nite). Will update this forum as soon as I know the test results.


UPDATE: Dutchess has thyroid disease. So much better than the things I feared. Her thyroid is enlarged and not producing the hormone. So she has to take thyroid pills probably for the rest of her life. The vet found no sign of heart, liver or renal failure in the lab work although he acknowledges those things don't always manifest in lab results. And she is already showing signs of improvement! The swelling seems to be gone except for her goiter which has also diminished in size and feels softer. And best of all, she can WALK now! We unloaded her and she walked into her house, about 200 feet away! Then she walked back out and walked back in again. It was amazing! She still doesn't want to eat very much though. Hopefully she will start feeling good and then eating better.
Thank you all so very much for your concern and helpful suggestions. It has been such a comfort to read your replies. I will continue to update as I notice more improvement. Maybe Dutchess can be as good as new again! @MKNOX.


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## KarenSoCal (Dec 28, 2018)

Turtle Love said:


> Thank you so much for your concern and prayers. I think Dutchess will be ok. She has thyroid disease! Not good, but not nearly as bad as the things I feared I don't think. She has to take thyroid pills. Iodine wasn't helping because her thyroid isn't producing the hormone she needs. But her swelling has already gone down a lot and she can walk now! It's amazing!


Yeah! Excellent news! I'm doing my happy dance: [emoji126]


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## Cheryl Hills (Dec 28, 2018)

Turtle Love said:


> Hi, I'm so sorry for not updating sooner. We got so tired. But yes, there is news and it's GOOD. Dutchess has hypothyroidism. Her thyroid gland is enlarged and nonfunctional. So she has to take thyroid medication probably for the rest of her life. But as far as the vet can tell, there is no sign of heart failure or renal failure which were my two biggest fears. She is already showing improvement - she can walk now! It's amazing! Thank you so much for your concern. It gives me such a warm feeling inside from all the concerned and helpful people in this forum.


I am So happy she is doing better. They are wonderful animals. And you are too, for taking such good care of her!


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## TortoiseRacket (Dec 28, 2018)

Cheryl Hills said:


> I am So happy she is doing better. They are wonderful animals. And you are too, for taking such good care of her!





Turtle Love said:


> UPDATE: Dutchess has thyroid disease. So much better than the things I feared. Her thyroid is enlarged and not producing the hormone. So she has to take thyroid pills probably for the rest of her life. The vet found no sign of heart, liver or renal failure in the lab work although he acknowledges those things don't always manifest in lab results. And she is already showing signs of improvement! The swelling seems to be gone except for her goiter which has also diminished in size and feels softer. And best of all, she can WALK now! We unloaded her and she walked into her house, about 200 feet away! Then she walked back out and walked back in again. It was amazing! She still doesn't want to eat very much though. Hopefully she will start feeling good and then eating better.
> Thank you all so very much for your concern and helpful suggestions. It has been such a comfort to read your replies. I will continue to update as I notice more improvement. Maybe Dutchess can be as good as new again! @MKNOX.


That’s amazing! I’m so happy!


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## Yvonne G (Dec 28, 2018)

Goiter! Just as we suspected. I'm so happy they've gotten to the root of the problem.


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## Bee62 (Dec 28, 2018)

Turtle Love said:


> You are exactly right! Her diagnosis after the ultrasound test is now hypothyroidism and protein-losing enteropathy, the cause of which is unknown to the vet. The vet said that the iodine wasn't helping because the thyroid isn't functioning, meaning it isn't producing the hormone. So now she has to take thyroid pills. Already seeing improvement!


*I am very, very glad that my guess was helpful !!!! Hopefully with the hormone your big baby is able to recover.*


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## Bee62 (Dec 28, 2018)

ALDABRAMAN said:


> ~ We have no experience with that species, however we have never had any similar experiences like that in our aldabra population.
> 
> @Olddog


@ALDABRAMAN It is now completely clear to me that you never had any similiar problems ( thyroid problems of giant tortoises ) with your tortoises, because you and your tortoises are living near the ocean ! Ocean water always contents traces of iodine. Rain and wind are carrying tiny doses of iodine on the land and plants that your tortoises are eating. With enough input of iodine the thyroids of your tortoises stay healthy. That is why you will never have such a problem with your giants.


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## NorCal tortoise guy (Dec 28, 2018)

Bee62 said:


> @ALDABRAMAN It is now completely clear to me that you never had any similiar problems ( thyroid problems of giant tortoises ) with your tortoises, because you and your tortoises are living near the ocean ! Ocean water always contents traces of iodine. Rain and wind are carrying tiny doses of iodine on the land and plants that your tortoises are eating. With enough input of iodine the thyroids of your tortoises stay healthy. That is why you will never have such a problem with your giants.


How are you giving your aldabras iodine? You said In the soak water right? I’m sorry if this is off topic please forgive me just want to make sure I don’t miss anything important.


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## ALDABRAMAN (Dec 28, 2018)

Bee62 said:


> @ALDABRAMAN It is now completely clear to me that you never had any similiar problems ( thyroid problems of giant tortoises ) with your tortoises, because you and your tortoises are living near the ocean ! Ocean water always contents traces of iodine. Rain and wind are carrying tiny doses of iodine on the land and plants that your tortoises are eating. With enough input of iodine the thyroids of your tortoises stay healthy. That is why you will never have such a problem with your giants.



~ WOW, Never even considered that.....interesting.


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## ALDABRAMAN (Dec 28, 2018)

NorCal tortoise guy said:


> How are you giving your aldabras iodine? You said In the soak water right? I’m sorry if this is off topic please forgive me just want to make sure I don’t miss anything important.



~ Our wells are the only sources for water, other than rain. It is untreated and straight from the well. We are not far from the ocean, very interesting concept. The majority of our population seem to prefer to drink directly from the ground, which would support that they get trace minerals, etc. from the dirt, sand, and from the untreated well water.


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## Bee62 (Dec 28, 2018)

NorCal tortoise guy said:


> How are you giving your aldabras iodine? You said In the soak water right? I’m sorry if this is off topic please forgive me just want to make sure I don’t miss anything important.


Your questions is not off topic at all ! Yes, I give my tortoises from time to time an iodine pill in their soaking water. They are still very young and small. I don`t want to overdose iodine and I think in the soaking water is it no problem.
Another possible way to supply tortoises with natural iodine is to feed algae calcium but my torts don`t like it to eat.


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## KAGDR (Dec 30, 2018)

so happy shes better.....


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## MKNOX (Dec 30, 2018)

Turtle Love said:


> UPDATE: Dutchess has thyroid disease. So much better than the things I feared. Her thyroid is enlarged and not producing the hormone. So she has to take thyroid pills probably for the rest of her life. The vet found no sign of heart, liver or renal failure in the lab work although he acknowledges those things don't always manifest in lab results. And she is already showing signs of improvement! The swelling seems to be gone except for her goiter which has also diminished in size and feels softer. And best of all, she can WALK now! We unloaded her and she walked into her house, about 200 feet away! Then she walked back out and walked back in again. It was amazing! She still doesn't want to eat very much though. Hopefully she will start feeling good and then eating better.
> Thank you all so very much for your concern and helpful suggestions. It has been such a comfort to read your replies. I will continue to update as I notice more improvement. Maybe Dutchess can be as good as new again! @MKNOX.


I am very happy to hear of her improvement. Please keep us updated.


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## Olddog (Dec 30, 2018)

Turtle Love said:


> UPDATE: Dutchess has thyroid disease. So much better than the things I feared. Her thyroid is enlarged and not producing the hormone. So she has to take thyroid pills probably for the rest of her life. The vet found no sign of heart, liver or renal failure in the lab work although he acknowledges those things don't always manifest in lab results. And she is already showing signs of improvement! The swelling seems to be gone except for her goiter which has also diminished in size and feels softer. And best of all, she can WALK now! We unloaded her and she walked into her house, about 200 feet away! Then she walked back out and walked back in again. It was amazing! She still doesn't want to eat very much though. Hopefully she will start feeling good and then eating better.
> Thank you all so very much for your concern and helpful suggestions. It has been such a comfort to read your replies. I will continue to update as I notice more improvement. Maybe Dutchess can be as good as new again! @MKNOX.




Very glad to hear your Dutchess is doing well! Hypothyroidism is usually easily treated. Am I correct in assuming Dutchess had her thyoid checked by Dr. Funk's group and again at UG s few months ago. It would be very intresting to note her previous TSH and T4 levels compared to present should you care to share. I would have thought it would take years after normal studies to develope her severe myxedematous changes and am surprised it occured over a period of months. In any case it is a relief to learn she is hypothroid and is being effectively treated.

Linked is a video of how we usually move the females when more is required than opening a gate. I usually can load and transport up to about 230 lb by myself but some of the young males can be challanging. The leverage requirement is such that two persons make it easier and safer for moving larger tortoises. I have laid down sheets of old plywood over which to roll a cart but that is rarely necessary. The cart in the video is from Home Depo and admittedly we abuse same. Previously I have replaced axles and wheels on this type of cart due to my abuse of same. To unload, the cart is tipped into the truck or trailer and the slide controlled. We also have used ramps for getting the carts to a higher elevation. For the big males we prefer to use bribery. Occasionally we must use machinery.





Upon placing the tortoise at the front of the cart, I usually lift the front of the tortoise with one hand and pull the cart under the plastrum. Pancho does it slightly different in the video. The edge of the cart and the rear of the tortoise are rocked up. The tortoise must retract thier legs before being slid to the bottom of the cart. Takes longer to type than to do. This young male below is about the largest we move in a cart this size. Hope this will give you some ideas.


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## KAGDR (Jan 2, 2019)

impressive!


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## Kristy1970 (Jan 2, 2019)

Bee62 said:


> Your questions is not off topic at all ! Yes, I give my tortoises from time to time an iodine pill in their soaking water. They are still very young and small. I don`t want to overdose iodine and I think in the soaking water is it no problem.
> Another possible way to supply tortoises with natural iodine is to feed algae calcium but my torts don`t like it to eat.



I’ve never read on here of iodine for sulcatas? I’d this something I need to add, this is so stressing me e! Mine is 350 grams


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## Kells Bells (Jan 2, 2019)

Just read this entire thread phew so glad there was a happy ending!


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## Bee62 (Jan 3, 2019)

Kristy1970 said:


> I’ve never read on here of iodine for sulcatas? I’d this something I need to add, this is so stressing me e! Mine is 350 grams


All tortoises need iodine for a healthy thyorid but it seems that galapagos tortoises more often suffer a lack of iodine.


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## jsheffield (Jan 3, 2019)

I've started adding a bit of dulse seaweed to my redfoot's diet every couple of weeks, to increase diversity of nutrients and their sources, including iodine.

Jamie


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## Kells Bells (Jan 3, 2019)

jsheffield said:


> I've started adding a bit of dulse seaweed to my redfoot's diet every couple of weeks, to increase diversity of nutrients and their sources, including iodine.
> 
> Jamie


I have a red foot also. Are there any other type of foods good for iodine?


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## KarenSoCal (Jan 22, 2019)

How is your girl doing now?


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## Turtle Love (Jan 22, 2019)

Turtle Love said:


> Female, 25 yrs. Entire body swollen, worse in neck. She won't move or eat for 3 days. Same problem 6 months ago. Vet at University of FL in Gainesville thought low blood protein caused by inability of protein to pass thru gut into bloodstream causing body to compensate by leaking fluid. Flagyl helped but 6 months later problem returned. I'm wondering if it could be renal failure but don't know why vet didn't suggest renal problem. Flagyl isn't helping this time. She is very sick. Can anyone help?


Second Update 1.23.2019
Dutchess continues to slowly improve. Swelling is mostly gone except for the goiter. She walks more, comes outside now, is awake much more, and more alert although still somewhat lethargic. But she watches for me again like she did before she got sick. And today, she even stood up and approached when she saw me. She also tries to stand up when I pet her although she's still a little unsteady. She also is eager to eat everyday. Even though she still looks and acts a little bit "out of it" or dazed, all the little improvements add up. I know she is feeling better though because she is glad to see me the way she always was before she got sick. She may need her dosage of levothyroxine increased. The vet will make a determination in a couple of weeks.
Thank all of you again for your help because it was all of your responses and concern that convinced my sweetheart to once again max out our credit cards to save her one more time. Now I am slowly getting my baby back the way she used to be. Love you all!


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## Turtle Love (Jan 22, 2019)

Bee62 said:


> @ALDABRAMAN It is now completely clear to me that you never had any similiar problems ( thyroid problems of giant tortoises ) with your tortoises, because you and your tortoises are living near the ocean ! Ocean water always contents traces of iodine. Rain and wind are carrying tiny doses of iodine on the land and plants that your tortoises are eating. With enough input of iodine the thyroids of your tortoises stay healthy. That is why you will never have such a problem with your giants.


Wow. I just discovered this post and it's a huge revelation. I tried for weeks to give my galap iodine. She HATED it. She lurched backwards, spit and gagged. I think it was traumatic for her. But there was no way to hide the taste even using foods with strong flavors like bell peppers. The iodine from the ocean must taste and smell different. Your post makes me determined to see if I can order fresh kelp from somewhere. I think I read once that galaps eat it in their natural habitat. Not sure about the salt content though. Maybe rinse it before feeding?


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## Turtle Love (Jan 22, 2019)

MKNOX said:


> I am very happy to hear of her improvement. Please keep us updated.


Thank you. Just did a new update as a reply to my own original post. Hopefully, you can find it. But if not, she is slowly improving. She still appears a little dazed but is awake more, walks a little more, and is eager to eat everyday and excited to see me each day the way she was before she got sick. Improvement is gradual and slow, but it's happening!


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## Turtle Love (Jan 22, 2019)

Olddog, I'm so sorry that I didn't discover your post sooner! Thank you so much for the videos! Yes, Dr. Funk did a complete blood workup when he was here last summer. But much to my surprise (and disappointment), the University of FL did NOT so there are no thyroid values to compare. U of FL discovered Dutchess's enlarged thyroid during an ultrasound to check her heart. They saw a huge mass in front of her heart where they said her thyroid gland would be. The enlargement apparently somehow told them that her thyroid wasn't working. (I would have thought it would be atrophied if not working, but I'm not a vet). Anyway, once they determined that the problem was with her thyroid, they knew what to do for it. So no need for chemistry values I guess, although I wanted to know the values for past and future comparisons like you suggested. But the vet at U of FL didn't see a need and I think they were trying to save us money wherever possible.


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## Turtle Love (Jan 22, 2019)

Olddog said:


> Very glad to hear your Dutchess is doing well! Hypothyroidism is usually easily treated. Am I correct in assuming Dutchess had her thyoid checked by Dr. Funk's group and again at UG s few months ago. It would be very intresting to note her previous TSH and T4 levels compared to present should you care to share. I would have thought it would take years after normal studies to develope her severe myxedematous changes and am surprised it occured over a period of months. In any case it is a relief to learn she is hypothroid and is being effectively treated.
> 
> Linked is a video of how we usually move the females when more is required than opening a gate. I usually can load and transport up to about 230 lb by myself but some of the young males can be challanging. The leverage requirement is such that two persons make it easier and safer for moving larger tortoises. I have laid down sheets of old plywood over which to roll a cart but that is rarely necessary. The cart in the video is from Home Depo and admittedly we abuse same. Previously I have replaced axles and wheels on this type of cart due to my abuse of same. To unload, the cart is tipped into the truck or trailer and the slide controlled. We also have used ramps for getting the carts to a higher elevation. For the big males we prefer to use bribery. Occasionally we must use machinery.
> 
> ...


After watching the video, it changed to different videos. I kept scrolling but it never went back to the galap video. But when I tried clicking on the title, it took me to the same video on YouTube which I commented on and then saved. I'm technologically challenged, LOL!
Also, please read my reply to you above. Somehow, I don't think it posted to you and I didn't put "@" in front of your name so I don't know if you would receive a notification letting you know it's there. Don't think I'll ever figure out how to use this forum, lol.


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## Turtle Love (Jan 22, 2019)

KarenSoCal said:


> How is your girl doing now?


She's improving, slowly but surely. Thank you for asking. I posted a second update a couple hours ago with all the details. It's posted as a reply to my original post. Didn't know where else to put it, lol.


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## Bee62 (Jan 23, 2019)

Turtle Love said:


> She's improving, slowly but surely. Thank you for asking. I posted a second update a couple hours ago with all the details. It's posted as a reply to my original post. Didn't know where else to put it, lol.


I am so glad that your big girl is recovering !


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## Olddog (Jan 23, 2019)

Turtle Love said:


> Olddog, I'm so sorry that I didn't discover your post sooner! Thank you so much for the videos! Yes, Dr. Funk did a complete blood workup when he was here last summer. But much to my surprise (and disappointment), the University of FL did NOT so there are no thyroid values to compare. U of FL discovered Dutchess's enlarged thyroid during an ultrasound to check her heart. They saw a huge mass in front of her heart where they said her thyroid gland would be. The enlargement apparently somehow told them that her thyroid wasn't working. (I would have thought it would be atrophied if not working, but I'm not a vet). Anyway, once they determined that the problem was with her thyroid, they knew what to do for it. So no need for chemistry values I guess, although I wanted to know the values for past and future comparisons like you suggested. But the vet at U of FL didn't see a need and I think they were trying to save us money wherever possible.




Thanks for sharing. Glad she is doing better! At biopsy, not all goiters are thyroid. Some tortoise's "goiter" has been found to be hypertrophied thymus of undetermined etiology. Re iodine supplementation (again, this is not a substitute for veterinary consultation but rather a sharing of experiences): 

Many mistakes have been made over the years but, so far, have not seen goiter develop on tortoises raised on our grasses. That said, unscientific empiric supplementation has been done for years. Kelp has not been used as it is unregulated and not standardized in this country with varying iodine content. There are cautions in the veterinary literature regarding potential kelp toxicity. In humans, there are documented cases of forms of hypothyroidism related to selenium deficiency as well as iodine defiency in the literature. Selenium is also toxic in excess. Pastures grasses in Florida may be somewhat low in selenium but are reported to have adequate iodine. We empirically supplement iodine and selenium and other trace elements primarily in two ways. We periodically feed Purina Equine Senior feed (14% crude protein, 5.5% crude fat, 18% crude fiber, Iodine 3.30 ppm, Selenium 0.3 ppm) or similar (about $20/bag) as a supplement (not all will eat), especially when grass is sparse. Most commercial fortified feeds have small safe amounts of iodine, selenium, and trace elements. 

Although controversial, as a treat, we also feed breads. Note this should only be done when the hindgut is full of grasses or hay (high fiber). Easily digested carbohydrates as breads should not be a significant portion of the diet. Breads are a significant source of iodine and selenium for humans in the US, content varying somewhat with the origin of the grain used for the flour. Most of the Galaps really seem to enjoy an occasional slice of bread. 



The newer low starch high fiber feeds from Masuri and Zoo Med in the 12% protein range should be a good feed/ supplement but long term data is lacking.


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## Turtle Love (Apr 29, 2019)

Turtle Love said:


> Female, 25 yrs. Entire body swollen, worse in neck. She won't move or eat for 3 days. Same problem 6 months ago. Vet at University of FL in Gainesville thought low blood protein caused by inability of protein to pass thru gut into bloodstream causing body to compensate by leaking fluid. Flagyl helped but 6 months later problem returned. I'm wondering if it could be renal failure but don't know why vet didn't suggest renal problem. Flagyl isn't helping this time. She is very sick. Can anyone help?


New Update: My galop back in December:


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## Turtle Love (Apr 29, 2019)

Turtle Love said:


> View attachment 271101
> 
> New Update:


Picture displays above caption instead of below. Anyway, here is Dutchess today, 4-29-19:
She has a vet appointment at the University of FL on May 10th for her follow up visit. She should be easier to load than before because she can walk this time.


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## KarenSoCal (Apr 29, 2019)

Turtle Love said:


> View attachment 271102
> 
> Picture displays above caption instead of below. Anyway, here is Dutchess today, 4-29-19:
> She has a vet appointment at the University of FL on May 10th for her follow up visit. She should be easier to load than before because she can walk this time.


I'm not sure I've got this right. She was swollen in Dec, and she is well now?
What did you do to help her? Such a wonderful difference!


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## Turtle Love (Apr 30, 2019)

We took her to the University of FL. She was diagnosed with thyroid disease (thyroid enlarged and inactive, not producing thyroid hormone). She now gets thyroid pills everyday. She seems to be doing great and almost back to normal except she still has the goiter.


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## jsheffield (Apr 30, 2019)

Glad to hear your tort is better now that you've found out what was the matter.

I started a thread a while ago about feeding my tort rehydrated seaweed once a week to help him get some iodine as well as micronutrients that might otherwise be missing from his diet:

Seaweed as a part of my tortoise's diet
https://tortoiseforum.org/index.php?threads/Seaweed-as-a-part-of-my-tortoise's-diet.173455/



Jamie


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