# Abscess on Baby Sulcata?



## Kingsley7 (Apr 1, 2019)

Hi Everyone, I have been dealing with quite an anomaly for the past few months with my 7 month old HET for ivory sulcata. I purchased him from Randy at tort Stork in December and noticed in late January a slight bump under his right eye on his cheek. We concluded it was probably an irritation or pimple at first, until it got bigger a few months later. Just today I took a picture and compared it to the first picture I took when I got him and was shocked at the difference, his entire facial structure has seemed to change, and the lump on his eye has gotten bigger. I am planning on bringing him to a vet to get whatever this is checked out but until then I will upload pictures of when I first got him, to a month or so ago, to now; and hopefully someone out their can lend a piece of advice for my little guy. Side note: Randy has been great with helping me out and lifting some worries, as well as offering suggestions and words of advice throughout this issue. He also helped conclude that my husbandry and set up was on point in order to promote the healthiest possible tort and that this issue is most likely naturally occurring, it is still an anomaly nonetheless. Thanks to anyone who can offer a reply!


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## Reptilony (Apr 1, 2019)

Is he 7months old on the last picture?


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## Kingsley7 (Apr 1, 2019)

Reptilony said:


> Is he 7months old on the last picture?


yes, he was about 3 months old in the first picture, 5 and a half to 6 months old in the second, and 7 months in the last picture.


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## Reptilony (Apr 1, 2019)

Kingsley7 said:


> yes, he was about 3 months old in the first picture, 5 and a half to 6 months old in the second, and 7 months in the last picture.



Ok because he look like he has grown very little, almost not...Do you know his before and after weight?


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## EllieMay (Apr 1, 2019)

Reptilony said:


> Ok because he look like he has grown very little, almost not...Do you know his before and after weight?



I agree.. the size alone would really concern me.. I can’t even see the first two pictures to see the difference on his little face..


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## Reptilony (Apr 1, 2019)

EllieMay said:


> I agree.. the size alone would really concern me.. I can’t even see the first two pictures to see the difference on his little face..



Yes...Wathever he gas caused him not to grow normally...I’ve seen this many times before, I think it’s usually an infection and so the solution might be antibiotics, hopefully a more experienced member on this topic joins soon. If I remember correctly a member had this happen to his sulcata and this person ended succesfully treating the problem with medication.


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## Maro2Bear (Apr 1, 2019)

EllieMay said:


> I agree.. the size alone would really concern me.. I can’t even see the first two pictures to see the difference on his little face..



Yep....looks tiny for a seven month old.


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## Kingsley7 (Apr 2, 2019)

Reptilony said:


> Ok because he look like he has grown very little, almost not...Do you know his before and after weight?



I did not take his before and after, I’ll get a scale soon so I can document it from now on.


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## Kingsley7 (Apr 2, 2019)

Reptilony said:


> Yes...Wathever he gas caused him not to grow normally...I’ve seen this many times before, I think it’s usually an infection and so the solution might be antibiotics, hopefully a more experienced member on this topic joins soon. If I remember correctly a member had this happen to his sulcata and this person ended succesfully treating the problem with medication.



Ah man okay, that sucks to hear, hopefully we can get to the bottom of it soon and smooth things out for my little guy. How big should a 7 month old sulcata be?


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## Reptilony (Apr 2, 2019)

Kingsley7 said:


> Ah man okay, that sucks to hear, hopefully we can get to the bottom of it soon and smooth things out for my little guy. How big should a 7 month old sulcata be?



Mine is the smallest not sick sulcata I have seen and at 7months she was 116g but then at 8 months she was 143, at 11 months she was 225g. Yes getting a food scale is a good idea because yours look like mine the first time I put her on a scale so at 4 months old at 43g. I don’t usually recommend this but if no experienced member on this topic joins soon I would take to a vet this guy really needs help.


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## Kingsley7 (Apr 2, 2019)

Reptilony said:


> Mine is the smallest not sick sulcata I have seen and at 7months she was 116g but then at 8 months she was 143, at 11 months she was 225g. Yes getting a food scale is a good idea because yours look like mine the first time I put her on a scale so at 4 months old at 43g. I don’t usually recommend this but if no experienced member on this topic joins soon I would take to a vet this guy really needs help.



I’m planning a vet visit this weekend. Thank you for the replies it’s much appreciated.


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## Kingsley7 (Apr 2, 2019)

I also wanted to add that he is very active, alert, and aware of his surroundings, he’s never acted sick and he eats like a machine as soon as there is food on his plate.... acts like a normal baby tort, which makes the issue even more confusing to me.


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## Kingsley7 (Apr 2, 2019)

I've been doing a lot of reading around and is it possible that his growth rate isn't something to be concerned over? Despite what everyones saying, I read that every tortoise grows at different rates and at different times, is it possible that he just hasn't hit a major phase of growth yet or is a "late bloomer"? Because, as I noted above, he doesn't have ANY symptoms of a sick tort besides the bump on his right cheek, he's still eating, sleeping, burrowing, investigating, and is always alert and aware.


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## Reptilony (Apr 2, 2019)

Look at this

Baby Sulcata tortoises JAW FELL OFF PLEASE HELP
https://tortoiseforum.org/index.php?threads/Baby-Sulcata-tortoises-JAW-FELL-OFF-PLEASE-HELP.162027/

Im not saying this is what your tortoise have but it shows how an infection can stop growth until it’s healed.


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## Reptilony (Apr 2, 2019)

Kingsley7 said:


> I've been doing a lot of reading around and is it possible that his growth rate isn't something to be concerned over? Despite what everyones saying, I read that every tortoise grows at different rates and at different times, is it possible that he just hasn't hit a major phase of growth yet or is a "late bloomer"? Because, as I noted above, he doesn't have ANY symptoms of a sick tort besides the bump on his right cheek, he's still eating, sleeping, burrowing, investigating, and is always alert and aware.



He look like he does not have new growth line on shell and he looks identicall to the first pic. Usually that doesn’t lie, unless the last picture is not up to date I would say your sulcata has a problem. A 7 months sulcata doesn’t look like it just hatched unless something is wrong.


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## Reptilony (Apr 2, 2019)

This is what my sully (who is the smallest not sick sulcata I have ever seen) looks like at 6 months old.

You can see the growth lines getting wider has she grows.


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## Kingsley7 (Apr 2, 2019)

Reptilony said:


> This is what my sully (who is the smallest not sick sulcata I have ever seen) looks like at 6 months old.
> View attachment 268821
> You can see the growth lines getting wider has she grows.



He definitely looks bigger than mine, this is the most recent top-view picture I took of mine. I took it on March Third, so at that point he was around 6 months old.


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## Kingsley7 (Apr 2, 2019)

Kingsley7 said:


> He definitely looks bigger than mine, this is the most recent top-view picture I took of mine. I took it on March Third, so at that point he was around 6 months old.
> View attachment 268825



He’s got a beautiful shell and colors.


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## Reptilony (Apr 2, 2019)

When you weigh him it will give a better idea but id’say he’s about ~50g.


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## Kingsley7 (Apr 3, 2019)

Reptilony said:


> When you weigh him it will give a better idea but id’say he’s about ~50g.


Update:



He weighs 68 grams, what are your thoughts?


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## Kingsley7 (Apr 3, 2019)

Randy told me that he weighed around 20-25 grams when I first got him.


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## Reptilony (Apr 3, 2019)

Kingsley7 said:


> Update:
> View attachment 268937
> 
> 
> He weighs 68 grams, what are your thoughts?



It’s very small for a 7 months old, but maybe he is an exception, but I think what is most likely is that a factor is slowing is growth, the abcess on his face and the fact that he is so small made me think the origin of this abcess might be that factor. If you can weigh him every week you will know more precisely if he’s making progress. Does his plastron feels soft? You say he walks a lot? What kind of uvb are you using?


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## Kingsley7 (Apr 3, 2019)

Gotcha, I’ll weigh him every week and start keeping tabs. 

His plastron doesn’t feel soft per se, but it does push in a little bit if I apply some pressure.... yes he’s very active; investigates eats and sleeps like a baby tort does... I use a power sun 100 watt bulb as his basking and heat element as well as a zoo med 10.0 UV tube light that runs Down the length of his enclosure.


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## Kingsley7 (Apr 3, 2019)

Is the plastron supposed to be rock solid? Because his is not if that’s the case


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## Reptilony (Apr 3, 2019)

Kingsley7 said:


> Is the plastron supposed to be rock solid? Because his is not if that’s the case



No just not soft, for a tort this size it might not feel rock solid, what are your temperatures? Basking, minimum ambient...


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## EllieMay (Apr 3, 2019)

@Yvonne G
@Tom

Would you share your knowledge here please?


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## Kingsley7 (Apr 3, 2019)

Reptilony said:


> No just not soft, for a tort this size it might not feel rock solid, what are your temperatures? Basking, minimum ambient...



Basking temp is between 95-100, ambient is 80. Nighttime is 80, I use a CHE at night to keep it that temp.


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## Reptilony (Apr 3, 2019)

EllieMay said:


> @Yvonne G
> @Tom
> 
> Would you share your knowledge here please?



Yes thank you, all mighty tortoise sages we need your respectable opinion here, we got a special case...


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## Tom (Apr 3, 2019)

I went back and re-read from the beginning. Here are the high points.


Most sulcatas hatch around 30-35 grams. Mine are typically 33-37, but I'll have big batches with some 40-42 grammers in there. My largest was 44 grams right out of the egg _before_ soaking. 20-25 sounds too small.
Your tortoise is abnormally small for 7 months old, but there could be many reasons for that. Mine are usually 200-300 grams by seven months, but that is with ideal conditions and ideal hydration. At 68 grams, you are not likely to lose this baby due to "hatchling failure".
I've never dealt with a swelling like the one you are seeing, so I have no first hand experience to share. It sure looks like and abscess or infection of some sort to me. Just be careful with the vet. Most of them don't know much about tortoises. Don't let them use Baytril or give any "vitamin injections... Fortaz is a good antibiotic if one is needed and its safer for tortoises. Baytril is extremely caustic and burns them at the injection site.


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## Kingsley7 (Apr 3, 2019)

Tom said:


> I went back and re-read from the beginning. Here are the high points.
> 
> 
> Most sulcatas hatch around 30-35 grams. Mine are typically 33-37, but I'll have big batches with some 40-42 grammers in there. My largest was 44 grams right out of the egg _before_ soaking. 20-25 sounds too small.
> ...



Thank you for the response and information. I appreciate the advice and I’ve been doing my best to keep the conditions above ideal for him. Along with the heat/ uv elements I put in my previous answer, The humidity always stays above 60% but sits closer in the 70-80% range. I soak him with warm water every day for 30 minutes and I keep a humid hide in his enclosure at 90-100% humidity. The vet is scheduled for 3 pm on Friday so I will give an update afterwards; and I’ll definitely be careful with what they suggest as treatment. Thank you


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## ricks45 (Apr 4, 2019)

Here are my two at 7 months old.


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## Kingsley7 (Apr 4, 2019)

ricks45 said:


> Here are my two at 7 months old.
> View attachment 268965
> View attachment 268966



That’s a huge difference, hopefully my guys growth rates are just a little skewed and that he’s an acception, well see how the vet goes tomorrow.


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## Kingsley7 (Apr 5, 2019)

VET UPDATE:

So we just left the vet, they said that there was tissue growth on the inside of his mouth behind where the abscess is... they offered to sedate, lance the abscess, scoop out the puss and tissue and send him home with antibiotics. That route would have been around 1000 dollars which I can’t spare at the moment. so we decided to skip the surgical route and give him the antibiotics (fortaz) for the next 3/4 weeks. Hopefully the fortaz works in completely clearing it up or at least shrinking the abscess, but I am still cautious to the fact that it could easily come back.


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## Kingsley7 (Apr 5, 2019)

I’ll continue to update you guys as the weeks go by


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## C. Nelson (Apr 5, 2019)

ricks45 said:


> Here are my two at 7 months old.
> View attachment 268965
> View attachment 268966



Wow! That's huge for 7 months.


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## Kingsley7 (Apr 14, 2019)

It’s been about a week since we started treatment and I have some good news... I weighed him this morning and he’s now 75 grams! Besides his adding weight, there is also a considerable change in his facial structure, he doesn’t look as “puffy” as he did before bringing him to the vet and his eye is more open... overall he looks much better, I just hope the remaining doses will be able to treat him fully so we won’t have to worry about this anymore.


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## Kingsley7 (May 4, 2019)

Update #2: he’s hovering between 76-78 grams, active, eating, and seemingly healthy. The only thing concerning me now is that The abscess seems to almost be rotting... it’s almost making a small hole letting me see upwards into his mouth... should I be worried or should I ride out the rest of the treatment and see where to go from there?


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## Kingsley7 (May 4, 2019)

I will post a picture of it when I get home, it’s nothing mortifying but it’s definitely noticeable if you look close enough


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## Yvonne G (May 4, 2019)

Kingsley7 said:


> VET UPDATE:
> 
> So we just left the vet, they said that there was tissue growth on the inside of his mouth behind where the abscess is... they offered to sedate, lance the abscess, scoop out the puss and tissue and send him home with antibiotics. That route would have been around 1000 dollars which I can’t spare at the moment. so we decided to skip the surgical route and give him the antibiotics (fortaz) for the next 3/4 weeks. Hopefully the fortaz works in completely clearing it up or at least shrinking the abscess, but I am still cautious to the fact that it could easily come back.


More than likely, what happened is a sharp piece of something (food, wood, whatever) poked through the inside of the mouth and it scabbed over. Now there's a foreign body in there and the tortoise's system is walling it off. I doubt antibiotics by themselves will help the tortoise. The medication will keep the germ growth under control, but whatever sliver caused the abscess in the first place should be taken out of there. 

Start saving up your money because this really needs to get done.


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## Kingsley7 (May 4, 2019)

Here is an up to date image, you can see the difference now and the cleft/ hole that is forming on his right side.


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## Kingsley7 (May 4, 2019)

Yvonne G said:


> More than likely, what happened is a sharp piece of something (food, wood, whatever) poked through the inside of the mouth and it scabbed over. Now there's a foreign body in there and the tortoise's system is walling it off. I doubt antibiotics by themselves will help the tortoise. The medication will keep the germ growth under control, but whatever sliver caused the abscess in the first place should be taken out of there.
> 
> Start saving up your money because this really needs to get done.



Is it possible that the foreign body is no longer there anymore and that there isn’t as great of a need to get it removed? If something was able to slice the inside of his mouth I can’t imagine it still being lodged in there based on his behavior... he’s been eating like crazy and gaining weight, I would assume that with a splinter of sorts he would be physically irritated and less inclined to eat, which is not at all the case


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## CarolM (May 6, 2019)

Kingsley7 said:


> Is it possible that the foreign body is no longer there anymore and that there isn’t as great of a need to get it removed? If something was able to slice the inside of his mouth I can’t imagine it still being lodged in there based on his behavior... he’s been eating like crazy and gaining weight, I would assume that with a splinter of sorts he would be physically irritated and less inclined to eat, which is not at all the case


Would the VET not be able to see if there was still a foreign body in there via an X-Ray? Do you really want to take a chance?


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## Yvonne G (May 6, 2019)

Kingsley7 said:


> Is it possible that the foreign body is no longer there anymore and that there isn’t as great of a need to get it removed? If something was able to slice the inside of his mouth I can’t imagine it still being lodged in there based on his behavior... he’s been eating like crazy and gaining weight, I would assume that with a splinter of sorts he would be physically irritated and less inclined to eat, which is not at all the case


Think about it: If you got a wooden splinter under your skin that you ignored. How long would it take for that little piece of wood to decompose?


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## Kingsley7 (Jun 1, 2019)

I finished his antibiotic treatment this week... he’s now hovering around the 90 gram range which is over 20 gram growth from when I first started treating him. I’m going to give it a few weeks and see if his confusion deteriorates the way it did before starting the treatment, if it does I’ll take further measurss


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## Kingsley7 (Jun 1, 2019)

Condition*


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## Kingsley7 (Aug 15, 2019)

Update after a few months.... my sulcata is now 130 grams, eating and growing like a weed, he’s very healthy and active and no longer has the cyst like bulge on his cheek. He’s now a very healthy happy sulcata and in the bullet proof stage.


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## EllieMay (Aug 16, 2019)

Great news!!! Congratulations


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