# HELP! (upside down in the water)



## Randi (Dec 11, 2014)

I came home from work to find my 55 gram Cherry Head flipped on her back in her water dish with her head submerged. The water was black from feces. She was unresponsive when picked up. She is currently sitting in her tub with a heat lamp. Her eyes are closed but she's breathing. Her food was untouched so it had to have happened after this mornings bath and then feeding when I left for work. I don't know how this could've happened. Her dish is completely level with the ground, she walks in. Her substrate is completely level as well with no raised areas. She flipped once when I first got her when she tried to explore the top of her hide but was found in minutes. I plan on keeping her warm to ensure she doesn't get pneumonia and to ward off anything else. If anyone can offer advice, please and thank you.


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## G-stars (Dec 11, 2014)

Sorry to hear that happened to your little one. I'm not sure there is much more you can do except keep her warm.


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## dmmj (Dec 11, 2014)

Keep her warm, your tortoise is probably ehausted, so you will notice her being slow for awhile. As to how this happened, my guess is she flipped while trying to get out of the water dish. I would look for a much lower lipped dish, just my thoughts on the matter.


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## Maro2Bear (Dec 11, 2014)

Sorry to hear about your 'lil guy, hope hes ok.


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## Randi (Dec 11, 2014)

Her dish looks like this but is an inch tall and five inches in diameter. I've tried tortoise specific dishes and she has refused to use them. I placed the one that's in now and she was in it immediately. The substrate is level with the dish. I am not sure as to what water dish I will now use. Thank you for your well wishes, everyone. I added another heat lamp onto her tank to keep her environment warmer then usual for a few days. I moved some things around. She's currently under her hide on the hot side, looking like she's snoozing. I have provided food but she looks tired so she probably won't eat. I will keep everyone posted. I have provided a picture of her very plain tank. She is being moved to a bigger tank soon that will have live plants and a nice set up. Thank you all again. I'm hoping for the best.


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## russian/sulcata/tortoise (Dec 11, 2014)

replace it with a thin plant saucer.


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## Ciri (Dec 11, 2014)

This is from Tess Cook book on box turtles:
to resuscitate a turtle that has drowned, tilt turtles head down while pushing its hind legs in and out, helping to expel water out of the lungs and pulling air back into them. Continue working the legs for at least 15 minutes.

Although it sounds like she is okay, I'm sending you this info as she may still have some water in her lungs. I imagine that it might be a good idea to try this just to make sure you have a chance to get any other water out. And it shouldn't make any difference that she's a tortoise instead of a box turtle.


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## Yvonne G (Dec 12, 2014)

Another way to get water out of the lungs is to support the head so it doesn't flop, then, holding the tortoise with its head towards the floor, raise it above your head and quickly whoosh your arm down towards the floor. But be very careful to support the head. Do this a couple times.


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## Jodie (Dec 12, 2014)

How is your little one today?


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## jeffjeff (Dec 12, 2014)

terracotta plant pot saucers are good for food and water dishes. i got them at our local diy place for about 70p each their about 6inch across. hope your torts ok.


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## Randi (Dec 12, 2014)

The tort is a little lethargic this morning. I gave s/he a bath and some food, left for work. I will see how she is when I'm home. If she eats, I will take that as a good sign. I'm worried about her getting sick - the water she was upside down in was almost sludge from her feces. I was thinking of taking her to a vet but I'm not sure what they will be able to do. 
I thank you all for your help and concern. I will keep you all posted. 

I'll have to look for these dishes. It's winter here, snow everywhere. All the green houses and plant things are mostly put away. Ill check a few places tonight for it.


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## phebe121 (Dec 12, 2014)

You could always untill you find a terracotta dish do a butter container and cut it down so.she.can step in and out of it nothing deep


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## peasinapod (Dec 12, 2014)

Randi said:


> The tort is a little lethargic this morning. I gave s/he a bath and some food, left for work. I will see how she is when I'm home. If she eats, I will take that as a good sign. I'm worried about her getting sick - the water she was upside down in was almost sludge from her feces. I was thinking of taking her to a vet but I'm not sure what they will be able to do.
> I thank you all for your help and concern. I will keep you all posted.
> 
> I'll have to look for these dishes. It's winter here, snow everywhere. All the green houses and plant things are mostly put away. Ill check a few places tonight for it.


Keep an eye out for lung infection if she mught have aspirated some if the water. She woukd need antibiotics if that were the case.


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## KTyne (Dec 12, 2014)

I'm so sorry you're having to go through this! I get my ceramic dishes (the ones you use under plant pots) at the dollar store. They always have them year round, although sometimes they run out of the larger ones.


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## leopard777 (Dec 12, 2014)

you can still use back that metal dish , just fill it up with pebble rocks


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## Ciri (Dec 12, 2014)

You can use the lid of a plastic container such as a margarine container as a water dish for her. Just sanitize well – I usually wash in the dishwasher and use heated drying. She may be nervous around the old water dish since she had this unfortunate experience. I once adopted a box turtle who rarely got into his water – I think it was due to a past trauma. It will help her if the water dish is very shallow and looks different. Once she's had several months to recover and grow bigger, you can gradually get her used to the old water dish. Putting rocks in the dish at that time is a good idea. Sorry you and she are going through this. Hope she is feeling better.


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## newCH (Dec 12, 2014)

Sorry to hear about your little one. I have a cherry head also,
weighs a bit less than yours. Keep us informed how its doing ~


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## Randi (Dec 12, 2014)

After fighting with myself, I called the exotic vet. Left work and brought her in. The vet said that if it was just water, she'd pass it through her system, but because she inhaled fecal matter, she's at high risk for a bacterial infection in the lungs. She has received an antibiotic injection and requires four days of oral antibiotics. The vet said she looks ok, but I'd rather be safe then sorry. She is really shy and did not like the vet pulling her head out as she would hiss and open her mouth. She's very unhappy with being poked. She wouldn't use that side of her body for a few minutes. She has ate some food. She was also completely cleared today medically from the terrible rot she had when I acquired her. 
I am looking tonight for a new water dish. The vet said the dish I currently have has a lid that goes straight down and isn't very forgiving for a tort her size. The vet said I can also try a pie pan as they allow her to walk in nicely. Thank you all for everything!!


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## KTyne (Dec 12, 2014)

Glad to hear you took her to the vet, a bacterial lung infection would not have been fun to deal with! I hope she does well and is back to her normal self asap!


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## Randi (Dec 12, 2014)

She probably won't be happy until the meds are over. She is shy, and I try to leave her alone so I don't stress her. I'm just happy that there are some preventative measures in place, I'm less worried now. My biggest concern was her aspirating her own waste. She has also dropped from 55 grams a few days ago to 51 after all this. I'm stressed. 

I wish s/he was more like my turtle - I can always rely on him to flip himself back over. I'll get the hang of this tortoise thing soon!


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## Carol S (Dec 12, 2014)

I am glad your tortoise is doing better. How terribly frightening for her and also for you to come home from work and finding her upside down in the water dish.


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## Ciri (Dec 12, 2014)

it's really good that you took her to the vet, given the situation. You're doing really well at tuning into her, and taking care of her. She is young, so she will be more vulnerable to flipping herself and not being able to flip her self back over. It just takes some time to figure out how to work the equipment! She'll get the hang of it eventually. Best wishes to you and your little one for a speedy recovery.


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## katfinlou (Dec 12, 2014)

Wishing your little one a full and speedy recovery. How lucky is she to have found such a great owner in you!!


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## stinax182 (Dec 12, 2014)

How your little one gets better!


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## gingerbee (Dec 12, 2014)

Your doing great!! She'll gain the wt back!!!


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## Randi (Dec 13, 2014)

My issue is giving meds! She uses those front legs like armor to block her face haha. I feel bad pulling on her front legs to get her out. I tried injecting it into a small piece of fruit but she's too mad to eat it. Any advice on oral meds?


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## peasinapod (Dec 13, 2014)

Randi said:


> My issue is giving meds! She uses those front legs like armor to block her face haha. I feel bad pulling on her front legs to get her out. I tried injecting it into a small piece of fruit but she's too mad to eat it. Any advice on oral meds?


I am sorry, I have no experience whatsoever.


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## Ciri (Dec 13, 2014)

Randi said:


> My issue is giving meds! She uses those front legs like armor to block her face haha. I feel bad pulling on her front legs to get her out. I tried injecting it into a small piece of fruit but she's too mad to eat it. Any advice on oral meds?


 I read this and have been racking my brain to think of a solution. Putting the meds in her food is a really good idea. Maybe in time she will settle down and eat the fruit. My veterinarian has never given me oral meds to administer. I remember asking him about using oral meds, and he said that it's very difficult to get them to swallow it, and not aspirate it. And that's if you can even get the meds in their mouth. When I have trouble doing what my vet told me, I call the office and see what they want me to do. Of course, your vet may not be in today. If that were the situation and I had to figure out a way to get the meds in, I would first soak the tortoise early in the morning. Then hopefully she will have had some time to urinate if she needs to. I would put the meds in a syringe with no needle and _very gently_ insert the tip into her cloaca (anus). Put it in just barely far enough so that you can administer the medication – like 1/4 inch. It's important not to insert it too far because that could cause harm. I would administer the medication that way, since they are able to absorb things through their rectum. But hopefully she'll soon become more cooperative and eat it in her food.


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## peasinapod (Dec 13, 2014)

Ciri said:


> I read this and have been racking my brain to think of a solution. Putting the meds in her food is a really good idea. Maybe in time she will settle down and eat the fruit. My veterinarian has never given me oral meds to administer. I remember asking him about using oral meds, and he said that it's very difficult to get them to swallow it, and not aspirate it. And that's if you can even get the meds in their mouth. When I have trouble doing what my vet told me, I call the office and see what they want me to do. Of course, your vet may not be in today. If that were the situation and I had to figure out a way to get the meds in, I would first soak the tortoise early in the morning. Then hopefully she will have had some time to urinate if she needs to. I would put the meds in a syringe with no needle and _very gently_ insert the tip into her cloaca (anus). Put it in just barely far enough so that you can administer the medication – like 1/4 inch. It's important not to insert it too far because that could cause harm. I would administer the medication that way, since they are able to absorb things through their rectum. But hopefully she'll soon become more cooperative and eat it in her food.




If you administer medicine anally it is absorbed faster by the body and is much stronger, as it doesn't go through the liver for example. I wouldn't do this without consulting your vet, as it may be harmful or that it may only be advisable afted changing the dosage!


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## Randi (Dec 13, 2014)

The vet made administering meds look super easy. She had her fingers near the rear pushing her legs in to push her out in the front, then she grabbed her front feet and pulled them out and stuck the syringe near her face. She hissed and the vet got it in. I'm a single person doing this for the first time and it's very awkward. I feel like I'm hurting her. And then when i manage to get the syringe past her legs, her legs pin it together and i can't see if it's in her mouth
Ahhh going to try the food again now that she's calmer


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## crimson_lotus (Dec 13, 2014)

At first my vet gave me oral meds too, and it was hilarious (even though it really shouldn't be) since I first put it all over her favorite food, which is Mazuri. She was SO excited when she saw the treats...and then she tasted it. She kept trying to eat it and gagged every time, like what the hell?! what did you do to my delicious food?


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## Randi (Dec 13, 2014)

Hopefully the fruit will distract her from the medicine that lurks inside hahaha.


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## Randi (Dec 13, 2014)

Operation lil bit of Kiwi and lotta Watermelon worked. I now am able to get her meds in her, stress free.  mwahaha.


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## Jodie (Dec 13, 2014)

Glad this worked for you and hope it works. Wishing you a full and speedy recovery.


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## Ciri (Dec 14, 2014)

I am thrilled to hear that the kiwi and watermelon worked!!! It is so much nicer to administer meds with persuasion. Keep us posted on her progress.


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## Randi (Dec 14, 2014)

I have a question about diet.. 

I will explain her life prior to me owning her. She arrived at Petsmart in December of last year. She stayed in quarantine because after a few weeks of her being in the store, she was showing signs of fungus. I had found out about her at the beginning of July, this year. At this point, her fungus turned into rot and the only left to do was injections. The store did not want this expense anymore and was going to euthanize her. A friend told me about all this and I decided to adopt her out of the store. I went to look at her to see what kind of shape she was in. She was being kept in a five gallon tank, with soil that was soaked. She had a 25W heat lamp and no UVB source. Her plastron was incredibly soft and the skin was coming off in places. I decided I'd like to try and fix her. I set up a tank downstairs away from all my animals, where nobody goes so it's quiet as well. I tested the temps and humidity for a few days before bringing her home. I found out she only was offered kale and carrots at the store which she never wanted to eat. 

I brought her home and offered her spring mix, red and green leaf lettuce as well as dandelion greens dusted with calcium. She ate for hours. She had weird shell deformities as well when I got her. It was as if the middle of her shell (the seam?) was sinking in? It's almost gone now so I'm assuming it was a nutrition thing? I was feeding her three times a day as well as bathing her 3 times or more a day with scrubs for her plastron. 

Her fungus/shell rot was visibly gone within three weeks of treatment. She has been cleared by a vet as well. She just needs her plastron to level back out skin wise after losing so much. I'm now wondering how often I should be feeding? I feed twice a day with a bath before every feeding and misting her tank with warm water twice daily. I have an incredibly long food list that I have compiled after reading threads - it goes through cal/phos ratios, oxalate concentrations, etc of foods and frequencies of what to feed. She gets fruit once every week, with this week being an exception for her medication. She also gets hard boiled egg once every two weeks. She weighed in at 51 grams at the vet after this flipping in her water dish thing from weighing 55 grams two days before at home. 

Is feeding her twice a day too much? I'd like a smooth and even shell. I've read that skipping a day a week would be beneficial but I don't feel as though in the wild they would often skip eating unless they've had a big meal? I've also read that humidity can play a role in pyramiding and uneven shells. She lives on cypress mulch and it's misted twice daily. I scoop out about two inches and replace once a week. Then every two weeks I sanitize the inside of the tank and her objects. 

Sorry for the long read but I wanna make sure she is well taken care of. 

Pics: her shell on her first night home, shell after three weeks of treatment, and pics of her


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## Randi (Dec 14, 2014)

She also has Exo-Terra halogen fixtures for heat and then Aquatic Life T5 lights for UVB. I dust her food for one meal and the next two meals are calcium free. I then dust again and so on..


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## Jodie (Dec 14, 2014)

Wow, what a difference TLC made for this little one. Good for you! I am a Leopard girl, so can't help you. Wanted to tell you good job though. You are obviously doing something right.


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## Randi (Dec 14, 2014)

Thank you so much. I took her in so I could give her a better life. And to hear that it appears as I'm doing that, it's inspiring. The support and guidance on this site is amazing. Thank you.


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## crimson_lotus (Dec 14, 2014)

You're a wonderful person, not many people would do what you did. Great job with her! 

I had the same question about how often I should feed my tortoise. From this forum, I felt the general consensus was once a day, although be aware what is high calorie and what is not. I personally feed my redfoot once a day, fruit every 5 days, Mazuri twice a week, and greens on the remaining days, sometimes dusting the greens with some herbal tortoise hay from Tortoise Supply to make it less bland. She also loves brusselsprouts, squash, zucchini, mushrooms, tomatoes...so many foods are available to them. Oh, and sometimes I feed her boiled shrimp/chicken/egg...I tried snails once as well...I feed her protein once a month, however a lot of keepers do the 2 week thing like you do.

Keep in mind that my girl is a few years old, your redfoot looks pretty young.

But yeah, my point is you're right about their diet in the wild - they definitely wouldn't not eat for a day or two.


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## Randi (Dec 14, 2014)

Thank you. There's so much to try with her, food wise! I look forward to it 

Yes, she looks quite young. I'd say under a year or so. The store said she rarely ate there so I assume she may also be smaller then others her age. I used the zoo med and exo terra Forrest tortoise pellet a few times a week when I first got her but she quickly lost interest in them with all the greens around. I've heard good things about Mazuri and was considering ordering some for her as a christmas present  I will have to check out that herbal tortoise hay. would a multivitamin powder dusted on her food once a week be beneficial as well?

I think I will slowly start to decrease her feedings to once a day.

Have you ever tried worms for yours? I have mealworms and waxworms and what not around for the geckos and my Reeves turtle. I haven't offered them to her yet. Wondering if anyone has had success? Did yours like the snail and the shrimp? I have those from my turtle tank as well as a culture in a separate tub. I have small ones that would be perfect.

As yours is older, is she more interested in you and exploring? Mine eats, poops, sleeps and repeats. I assume this is because she's so young. She has a pen that I've set up (which she doesn't really care for) and this week I will be setting up her grazing tub inside that pen.

I think I am going to set up a tortoise cam for her tank to spy on her. I can also see what food item she goes for first when I'm not around hahaha


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## crimson_lotus (Dec 14, 2014)

Hahah if you set up a tortoise cam, I bet you would notice him/her going around in circles. Mine is super curious and loves to poke her nose into anything interesting going on around her, like me changing her water (which she ALWAYS immediately makes sure to dirty when I pour clean water in there) or when I mix her dirt with water every week to keep the humidity up.

I didn't raise my redfoot, she's actually a rescue that dealt with a lot of neglect and lack of care, so she's not very interested in humans. Her old owners also only fed her kale...why kale, I don't really know. It's too high in a lot of things and not a great tortoise food to feed all the time. She doesn't really interact with me unless I'm providing her food or if she's curious about something, like the nail polish on my finger and if it's food for her. But as for exploring, she does love finding new hiding places around my room, and she loves looking at herself in my bedroom mirror. It's actually kind of funny, she will sit there for 10 minutes or so just staring at herself. But yeah, eating, sleeping, and pooping is basically the life of a tortoise. I wouldn't worry.

She loved all of the protein I gave her, especially the shrimp. I have not tried worms but I would like to. I'm afraid she won't eat it all and there will be a half dead worm left for me to deal with. I know it's dumb.


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## Randi (Dec 14, 2014)

Aw, it's always awesome to rescue!  

Hahaha yes, ditto on the clean water that's only clean until noticed. 

It's good to know that your tortoise liked the shrimp and snails. I'll have to try it for mine this weekend. 

You can use tweezers to drop it down the toilet! I use worms often but still don't like them touching me hehehe. 

Does yours allow you to pet her at all? and thanks for reassuring me of her habits. What a life - eat, poop, sleep and repeat. And sometimes eat your own poop. Ahahaha. Oh boy. And I need to stop calling my tortoise a her because knowing my luck, it'll be flashing me soon! Haha


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## crimson_lotus (Dec 14, 2014)

I try to pet her on the head but she doesn't really like it and will often try to get away from me. Sometimes she will let me pet her back legs, and she always welcomes a butt scratch and does a little dance. Most female tortoises do. 

Tortoises are solitary animals so they don't really need much interaction with us, although I'd hope that she thinks of me as more of a food provider.

I forgot to mention that she does enjoy when I move things around in her enclosure, it gets her out to explore and makes her less bored. I do this every week or two. 

And as for the poop, daily soaks stop my tortoise from pooping in her enclosure. I know it's a natural behavior, but with fresh food every day, come on!


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## kdub (Dec 14, 2014)

You seem like a really awesome tort mama she's lucky to have you!


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## Randi (Dec 14, 2014)

Good to know. I won't bother her with trying to pet her. I rub her shell. I'll have to try a butt scratch and hope for a cute little dance. Ahaha aw. I'm not sure of the sex but I hope for female as all of my reptiles have been males, except for two geckos. Will the tortoise be larger if female and a little smaller if male? 

Mine is shy. It's good that she doesn't need much interaction with me one on one. I'll let her live her life and do her thing. 

I guess moving things around would keep it fresh! I'll have to start doing that. 

Mine gets soaked numerous times a day and has started pooping in her bath almost constantly again but I know that when I'm not home and she poops, she more then likely is eating it. I try to spot clean every time I am near her tank but I know there's that odd time where I can't be there.


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## Randi (Dec 14, 2014)

kdub said:


> You seem like a really awesome tort mama she's lucky to have you!



Thank you  I have all you awesome people to look up to, and I only hope to be as knowledgeable and as good of an owner as you guys are.


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## crimson_lotus (Dec 14, 2014)

I believe I read somewhere that females can grow up to 16 inches long, and I THINK males were a tiny bit smaller. 

Although I'm not positive, so if anyone has the answer let us know!


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## Ciri (Dec 15, 2014)

You asked about how often to feed her. When I get rescues that have been neglected so have not gotten adequate nutrition for some time, I let them tell me when they're ready to slow down on the feedings. Since she's just a baby, and finally with you is getting good nutrition, it may be some months before her body can really absorb all the nutrients that it needs to make up for inadequate nutrition. With my rescues, I feed them a couple of times per day until they lose interest in eating so often. Then I can back off a little bit. Eventually she can eat once a day, but right now being so young, and having been neglected, I would suggest waiting a while before slowing down her meals.

I would also suggest sticking with the fresh greens, and other fresh foods, as opposed to tortoise foods from the pet stores. Even the best prepackaged foods can't deliver quite all the nutrition that a tortoise needs. Keeping her diet as close to what her natural diet would have been in the wild, will be the healthiest.

It's wonderful that you rescued her from such a dire situation. And she is doing so well! All thanks to your careful, loving care.


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## ZEROPILOT (Dec 15, 2014)

My first thought was that she flipped over on one of those two awefull half logs....And wound up in the water. No one else thinks those logs are a bad idea? I had one in my baby redfoots tank and had to bury it about 80% until she stopped flipping over/ falling off. I read every post and no one seems to make that connection. Redfooteds love MAZURI. You can wet it and mix in ANYTHING and it will be instantly eaten. I'm very happy that your baby should recover. I'm just concerned that you're going to find that it will happen again.


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## stinax182 (Dec 15, 2014)

She is young so naturally anything bigger than them is going to eat them. It takes awhile for them to warm up to you. I rescued a 2 year old leopard and it took him a year to actually let me scratch his neck and legs. Start by just putting your hand in there, on the ground at their level. Talk softly, wiggle your fingers. They may come to you and let them but don't move. Don't make any sudden movements. You could lure them in with food and when they're eating slowly touch their feet.... Work up to the head. I did this a couple times a day. At first, nothing. But slowly he came to me..... Ate from my hands... Let me touch him. But each time i did it for at least an hour.


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## Randi (Dec 15, 2014)

Thank you all for the advice - I will continue her twice a day (and sometimes it's three times a day) feeding ritual. I will probably do this until she reaches 100 grams or when she tells me she's had enough. 

The log was mentioned - I am not sure that she used it to wind up in the water dish. I do know that in July when I first got her, she flipped over once and that was only for a few minutes. She was trying to get to the top. I believe this near drowning experience was due to the lip on her water dish being too "steep" and too "straight down" for her to get a decent grasp. I've added pebbles into the water dish - she now can almost literally step in and out of the water dish. And if she falls again, there is no way for her head to be submerged. 

And thank you very much for the handling tips! I will start introducing her to me. One thing that worked to get her over to me freely, was having the greens container beside me. She saw food and forgot about me. I just want her to understand that I don't want to eat her, and that these hands will always be loving. They will never love being handled but hopefully she will become more tolerant of me. I was once able to hand feed her with fruit. It was awesome. I haven't attempted it since. Thanks for the tips


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## Randi (Dec 15, 2014)

And size wise.. since she's a Cherry Head, she's a smaller subspecies, right? What do they tend to max out at? I've been reading about ten inches in length. If it's male, will it be smaller in size then a female?


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## Carol S (Dec 15, 2014)

You have done a fantastic job with her. Her shell looks like a different tortoise when comparing the picture from the day you got her and the current picture. She is lucky you saved her. You are a great tort mom!


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## Randi (Dec 16, 2014)

Thank you so much  

I'm new to tortoises and I generally just question myself a lot. This gives me some confidence that I'm doing things properly. I want to give her the best life possible, as with my critters. This forum has helped me a tremendous amount already, I have learned and am learning so much. The more knowledge I have about my tortoise, the better her life will be. Thanks for everyone to making that happen and for all the well wishes. 

My baby seems to be fine, she's showing no symptoms of anything since this incident. I know it is still early but I'm hopeful that this won't be a hinderance. I'm glad I went to the vet. It's better to be safe then sorry. I just wish this never happened. 

I also moved things around in her tank. The water dish is in the far corner. I will attach a picture. I think I'm going to get cork bark for reptiles, and will prop the cork bark on the two rocks to create a place to hide under. Not sure about the logs.


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## Randi (Dec 16, 2014)

Went to give the bed time bath and this is what I find. How silly.


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## leigti (Dec 16, 2014)

If you are worried about the logs being a falling hazard, just build up the substrate so that there is more of a ramp leading up to the top of the log. Climbing is good for them, builds their little tiny muscles, gives them confidence, general exercise. They were out in the wild they would be climbing things. But you can make it a little safer. And as they get bigger you don't have to build up the ramp as much. I watched my Russian tortoise climb to the top look both ways, up-and-down, and purposely jumped off the end and did a face plant. Then she got up and did it again. it was freaking hilarious!


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## Jodie (Dec 16, 2014)

Glad to see things turned out well for you.


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## biochemnerd808 (Dec 26, 2014)

I'm so glad to hear that your baby is doing so much better!
I would strongly recommend that you put some flat rocks into the water dish. There can be SOME deeper water there for her, but placing some pebbles in there will help her walk into there without flipping, and IF she flips, she will be able to get a foothold. Also, if you submerge the logs a little more in the substrate, you could put moss or other things up over the top, creating more of a hill/cave situation, which would lessen the danger of baby climbing up and flipping. 
Below is a pic of one of the outdoor baby bins... with rocks in the water dish, and little underground burrows made from flower pots.


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