# Help me make a happier home....



## desertsss (Apr 4, 2009)

Ok, so here are pics of Gordo and Twitch in their home. I have already been told to add some kind of substrate. Ideas would be helpful, for some reason I thought sand could give them infections. I am also going to get them some cuttlebone here in a couple days. 
Their basking area gets to approx 103 degrees in the warmest spot. 
Their humidity fluctuates but stays mostly a little below moderate. 40/50
Their uv bulb is a reptisun 10.0 uvb bulb. good for another 5 months
And underneath their wood hideout is a sticky heater thing underneath 
the tank. 

Oh, another question too...what kind of bird vitamins should I be dropping in their soak water to help with their soft shell. 
I also read up about pyramiding and I am terrified about it. 
For the last six months atleast these awesome little guys weren't properly cared for, and I would hate their beautiful shells to be irreplacibly (sp?) damaged. 

Well, here they are....

I can't figure out how to imbed them in the message sorry...


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## Maggie Cummings (Apr 4, 2009)

Those under tank heaters aren't good for young growing plastron's. They have been known to make them deformed so I wouldn't use it. With your over head lights you don't need the under tank heater. You can use eco earth mixed 50/50 with play sand as the substrate. You mean you are weary of sand causing 'impaction' not infection. But when it's mixed with soil you don't have to worry about impaction.
You'll want to get some powdered calcium, that more than anything will help with the soft shell. Any kind of bird vitamin would do. I keep my humidity about 60 to 70%.
CDT don't pyramid as badly as Sulcata do so you can stop worrying about that. But they do pyramid some, so you do need to feed them decently...


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## richalisoviejo (Apr 4, 2009)

I think yours looks pretty nice. I use some type of wood shaving for his bedding. He loves kicking it around. I have a graphic artist friend and he put together photos of where SulcataÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s actually come from. I then took it to KinkoÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s had it printed out in vinyl and it wraps around his tank, also since the vinyl is so think it helps keep it warm inside by keeping the cool air off the glass tank.


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## jorrow (Apr 4, 2009)

That background looks great richalisoviejo.


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## desertsss (Apr 4, 2009)

That's a very nice setup. I am struggling right now to find the right substrate. My little guys have begun to nibble on the paper towels. I am looking for eco-earth and play sand but can't find anyone who sells them. 

Also, are those real cacti, if so, where did you get them and what kind are they? Can ur little guy eat them, or does he?


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## richalisoviejo (Apr 4, 2009)

jorrow said:


> That background looks great richalisoviejo.




Thanks. I canÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t take credit for making it, a good friend of mine made it for me. HeÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s a great graphic designer.


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## tortoisenerd (Apr 4, 2009)

Eco earth may also be called coconut coir fiber, or some other brands. The major pet stores will have it in bricks in the reptile section, but it is much cheaper online.

Play sand can be found at home depot year round. 50 lb bag for about $5 I believe.


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## Jentortmom (Apr 4, 2009)

If you can't find the eco earth, then try the organic cyprus mulch.


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## richalisoviejo (Apr 5, 2009)

desertsss said:


> Also, are those real cacti, if so, where did you get them and what kind are they? Can ur little guy eat them, or does he?




Thanks 

Not real, just put them in for decoration. I have to take them out now because Henry keeps knocking them over.


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## Crazy1 (Apr 5, 2009)

Hi desertsss, make sure you don't have anything between your UVBulb and the torts, no screen or anything as UV rays do not pass thru screen or glass well. Once you have changed their substrate (and give them enough to really dig down into, to either eco-Earth and Sand (70/30) or Cypress mulch you can add a glass of water and it will be damp under the dried out top layer (your heat bulb will help it dry) but the damp under soil will help raise the humidity. I do this on one side only and I have the heat lamp on one side so that makes a better micro climate so my little ones can choose where they want to be. 103F is pretty hot. I would drop that down to about 95-98F directly under the spot light. 
Vitasol is the liquid bird vitamin I use but it does not have calcium. You need to get either calcium carbonate or something like Reptical calcium without D3 for your babies and use it daily. And leaving a cuttlebone in the enclosure will give them free access if they should need more. I use calcium carbonate and lightly dust their food daily.
I've heard the secret to no or lessened pyramiding is slow growth and that means do not overfeed. Use a variety of greens and grasses (hatchlings do seem to like grass much) and humidity.


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## desertsss (Apr 5, 2009)

"Hi desertsss, make sure you don't have anything between your UVBulb and the torts, no screen or anything as UV rays do not pass thru screen or glass well. "



Aaahhhh, no wonder. I have been feeding them tons of greens, a little grass and a little zucchini/squash mixture every once in a while, also using a calcium powder (which luckily they don't mind one bit) and they are active and healthy but I have seen no change in there soft tummies. I gotta get that screen out of there. Thank you. 

So I just started them yesterday on the soaks with the bird vitamins, and I got a cuttlebone for them, and they love it. (Glad I didn't get too picky of tortoises) Although they both hate carrots, and Gordo will not touch mustard greens. Since the bird vitamin soaks I have noticed a slight residue on their shells. I am only adding in maybe 4-6 drops to almost 2 cups of water...is that too much? 

Also, I am unsure how to change the humidity and change the temp under the heat lamp. For the humidity I thought maybe use a spray bottle and mist a couple of times a day? But for the heat, I am guessing I will have to go buy a different bulb? It doesn't have any adjustment settings or anything.

And just to let you guys know, you are awesome and Gordo, Twitch and I are so glad we found you.


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## tortoisenerd (Apr 5, 2009)

You can buy a lamp stand to clamp the fixture to, and raise and lower the light with the hood. I believe that will control the temperature, although honestly I am not familiar with the uvb tube setup. You probably don't need the screen unless it is for kids/pets/etc. Here's a photo that shows a type of stand. Mine is made by Zoo Med I believe, and unfortunately retails for $25. This one has height, depth, and longitudinal/rotation adjustment possible. They also make a slightly smaller stand that doesn't adjust as high, slightly less money. The platform bottom would go under the enclosure.

What type of bulb is in the hood fixture resting on the screen?






When that bulb needs replacement, I strongly recommend looking into a Mercury Vapor Bulb (MVB) for UVB, such as the Mega Ray or T-Rex Active UV. They have better UVB output (see http://www.uvguide.co.uk/), and usually can last for 12 months. Higher cost though (about $50). This is a flood light type bulb that is UVB and heat, so you'd only be using one fixture.

When you have a humidity-holding substrate, you should not need to mist. You will pour in water and mix it up to hold the humidity.

The bird vitamins should slightly tinge the water the yellow color. Not sure if they can cause shell residue though.

As you make any enclosure changes, it would be very helpful for you to add new pictures. This is also helpful for your own records for the animals.


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## galvinkaos (Apr 5, 2009)

desertsss said:


> Aaahhhh, no wonder. I have been feeding them tons of greens, a little grass and a little zucchini/squash mixture every once in a while, also using a calcium powder (which luckily they don't mind one bit) and they are active and healthy but I have seen no change in there soft tummies. I gotta get that screen out of there. Thank you.
> 
> So I just started them yesterday on the soaks with the bird vitamins, and I got a cuttlebone for them, and they love it. (Glad I didn't get too picky of tortoises) Although they both hate carrots, and Gordo will not touch mustard greens. Since the bird vitamin soaks I have noticed a slight residue on their shells. I am only adding in maybe 4-6 drops to almost 2 cups of water...is that too much?
> 
> ...



My kids love the cuttlebone and hate carrots too. I put moss on top of their hide and keep that wet to help with the humidity (Fred eats it if he can reach it). I have soil and sand as substrate and I wet down weekly and mist it twice a day when our humidity is down. I just raise and lower the CHE to adjust the temp. I think the residue on their shells is from a reaction between your water and the vitamins. Do you have hard water? I have seen it on mine too with the vitamins. The soft tummies lasted about 6 weeks for my kids even with good care. They have to overcome what they had before.

Dawna


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## desertsss (Apr 5, 2009)

All right, so tomorrow I am going to be heading out. I found a place that sells eco-earth and lowe's for the play sand. I might remove one of the water dishes. I want to remove that little hamster igloo that's in there, but they both love it. So that will probably be hanging around for a while. 

The one worry of mine with removing the screen to let the uv's get in there is the chance of maybe the light fixture falling into their home. 

I do already have a clamp for the heat lamp, but I am unsure how big it is. 

After I get this stuff situated tomorrow, I will post some new pics and see what you guys think. 

Thanks!


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## Meg90 (Apr 5, 2009)

Also, I would say to both of you who posted enclosures, IMO, I would move the lamps off to one end of the enclosures, instead of in the middle, so that there is a definate warm side, and a definate cool side.

When they are in the middle like that, it can be hard for the torts to thermoregulate because they only have two sorta warm sides, and one hot spot.

Otherwise, good starts all! I do reccomend the aspen. Its very lightweight, cheap, and easy to clean.


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## desertsss (Apr 5, 2009)

One last question and then I will post tomorrow the new pics of the home. Someone said, and I apologize for not recalling who, that the under tank heaters are bad for young plastrons. Should I remove it even though soon there will be a layer of substrate? My bigger tort Gordo really likes that spot too. Just curious.


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## Meg90 (Apr 6, 2009)

I would.....just put a piece or two of slate tile under the heat lamp, and you will get that same "belly" heat effect but in a much safer way...

looking forward to those pics!


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## desertsss (Apr 6, 2009)

New and improved...here are the pics of their new home. Some pics I took before I added the slate..but oh well. 

It was hilarious, when I first put them back in, they had no idea how to react with the eco-earth, and they kept walking around real slow lifting their legs really high. I was entertained. 

Also, I don't have a bigger stand for the heat lamp so I think I will just go buy a different bulb. Even with it elevated a little bit it is still 100 underneath. That will be tomorrow. 

Anywhoo...here it is. 












LOL, Gordo is loving the slate...in the last pic he is trying to kick Twitch off. Silly little guys.


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## Crazy1 (Apr 6, 2009)

desertsss, I think as long as you have the area around the center of the light 100F and outside the center is lower it would be OK. But test your temps outside the center of the light. (what do you keep your house temp at in winter, and in summer? this will determine how large a bulb you may need). How are your night time temps? I would be best to put up some sight barrier around the bottom of the glass so they can't see out. The ability to see out can and usually will cause them stress. But you have made great progress. Congratulations I'm sure you will have happier, healthier torts


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## desertsss (Apr 6, 2009)

Crazy1 said:


> desertsss, I think as long as you have the area around the center of the light 100F and outside the center is lower it would be OK. But test your temps outside the center of the light. (what do you keep your house temp at in winter, and in summer? this will determine how large a bulb you may need). How are your night time temps? I would be best to put up some sight barrier around the bottom of the glass so they can't see out. The ability to see out can and usually will cause them stress. But you have made great progress. Congratulations I'm sure you will have happier, healthier torts




That's one problem I am struggling with. My house can drop almost to 65 degrees at night. I do keep my heater on now at night for them, so I am thinking I won't remove the undertank heater until it stays warm at night. 
I just tested and directly underneath the bulb gets much hotter than 100...almost 115. I gotta get a new bulb tomorrow. 
Also, I think I am going to get one of those wrap around backgrounds. 

This is so cool though. They haven't stopped wandering around for almost 2.5 hours since I changed their home. I think they're lovin it. 
YAY!!!


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## richalisoviejo (Apr 6, 2009)

desertsss said:


> Also, I think I am going to get one of those wrap around backgrounds.
> 
> This is so cool though. They haven't stopped wandering around for almost 2.5 hours since I changed their home. I think they're lovin it.
> YAY!!!



I can find out what type if landscaping your torts is from and have a wrap around made for you. Just measure the sides and back of the tank. When my friend made mine he had to put it on a thumb drive, it was almost 60 Megs. When I took it to KinkoÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s they charged me a little over $50.00 for the vinyl background. But it sure helps keep the tank warmer inside.


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## desertsss (Apr 6, 2009)

I can find out what type if landscaping your torts is from and have a wrap around made for you. Just measure the sides and back of the tank. When my friend made mine he had to put it on a thumb drive, it was almost 60 Megs. When I took it to KinkoÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s they charged me a little over $50.00 for the vinyl background. But it sure helps keep the tank warmer inside.
[/quote]

Unfortunately, 50 is a little high for me right now. I have been out of work for about two weeks because of my back. (I tried to pick up my husbands 400 lb motorcycle by myself when it fell over) Yah, stupid idea. But I do know that at Petsmart and Petco they have the general desert backgrounds. That should do for now. But I definitely think that when I upgrade them to a bigger home I will get the vinyl done to help them stay a little warmer. Right now I would say they are too warm. lol
Thanks for the offer though. I appreciate it.


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## richalisoviejo (Apr 6, 2009)

desertsss said:


> Thanks for the offer though. I appreciate it.



Well if you change your mind let me know, I have a few friends who owe me a favor, I could get one to do the graphics and might even have him print it at work for nothing, I could just mail it to you.


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## Crazy1 (Apr 7, 2009)

desertsss, when you are ready to upgrade their home I would suggest you thing about a tort table. They are much easier to create micro-climates in And I found easier to maintain than an aquarium. Plus you have the added pleasure of solid sides. Check out the Enclosure sections for some ideas for the future. 
Sorry your back is out of sorts I know that is no fun, been there done that only it was me picking up a ink pen. How dumb is that, who would have thought an ink pen could be hazardous to your health. Yep at 115 it sounds as if you need a smaller bulb. If it is a white bulb you need to change it to red or black light for nighttime. They should have a nighttime drop in temps. Hatchlings do best when kept in a temperature gradient of 75-90Ã‚Â° F (24-32Ã‚Â° C) during the day falling to 70-75Ã‚Â° F (21-23Ã‚Â° C) at night. this is a good site for DT care.
http://www.tortoise.org/general/descare.html


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