# I'm so ashamed..........



## Yvonne G (Aug 27, 2016)

Earlier this year, or maybe last year I adopted out a baby desert tortoise to @gabby.santana. Her new baby was one of six that were turned in to me in September, 2015. They had just hatched.

Gabby has been fairly active here on the Forum and has been taking the Forum's advice in caring for her new baby....and it shows!! 

Gabby was a little worried about her box turtle, so she came over this a.m. to have me look at him. She also brought the desert tortoise baby. And, oh my! Here's a family reunion picture:




Here I'm supposed to be this experienced tortoise person and look at my babies compared to Gabby's. This is a perfect example of why tortoises do better living alone. Gabby's baby is an only child, while mine live in a group. My tortoises are fed well - weeds, grasses, edible plants, etc. They get 'watered' daily. But they're not much bigger than they were when they first hatched out of the egg.

I've always said I don't do well with babies. Well, here's the proof.

Good Job, Gabby! Your baby looks wonderful.


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## wellington (Aug 27, 2016)

It's easier when you have just one in my opinion. Easier to know everything about just one also. How much they ate, poop, etc. Even the littlest inconsistency is more easily spotted.


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## Tidgy's Dad (Aug 27, 2016)

Very interesting and honest post, Yvonne.
To be fair, one would imagine it would be very difficult for you to give all six of those and every other tortoise that you take on a big enough space to their own. Needs must and we can't all do exactly what we know to be the best for our charges for one reason or another. 
And you have a right to be proud of Gabby's tort yourself, for taking it in, adopting it out to a good home and being at least partially responsible for the success of the Forum in the first place. 
And the other tortoises in the picture look pretty good, nothing to be ashamed of. 
(in my opinion)


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## gabby.santana (Aug 27, 2016)

I agree with everyone, it is much easier raising one baby. Mogali is alone and eats everything on his plate at his leisure. Yvonne has done and continues doing a great job taking care of all her babies. So glad Mogali is doing really well as he is my first tort and Oliver isn't sick like I thought he was! Mogali is so healthy (knocks on wood) thanks to Yvonne's and this forum's advice. Thanks everyone !


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## Rue (Aug 27, 2016)

I was under the impression it is better for them to grow more slowly...or more naturally ...and that rapid grow under ideal conditions was actually not good for their overall health.

My Hermanns is also big for her size. Nothing I can do about other than cut back food but since I don't think I am over-feeding or that she is over-eating I am not willing to do that.

I find this part of yet more conflicting advice.


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## dmmj (Aug 27, 2016)

I'm so ashamed of you I can't even look at you.


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## dmmj (Aug 27, 2016)

Rue said:


> I was under the impression it is better for them to grow more slowly...or more naturally ...and that rapid grow under ideal conditions was actually not good for their overall health.
> 
> My Hermanns is also big for her size. Nothing I can do about other than cut back food but since I don't think I am over-feeding or that she is over-eating I am not willing to do that.
> 
> I find this part of yet more conflicting advice.


if your tortoise is kept humid than fast growth is not really a problem to be honest with you.


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## Rue (Aug 27, 2016)

...my post should read " big for her age"...

Well...I think I have the humidity high enough and that, combined with regular soaks, will be adequate. Keeping my fingers crossed.


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## Yvonne G (Aug 27, 2016)

dmmj said:


> I'm so ashamed of you I can't even look at you.



Turn your head...cover your eyes!


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## gabby.santana (Aug 27, 2016)

Mogali only eats once in the mornings. I never really thought about the humidity part. I do soak him a lot and his enclosure is usually humid. Yvonne said he was growing out very smoothly. I read somewhere that he might slow down on his eating habits as he gets bigger. He will be one in September!


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## mike taylor (Aug 27, 2016)

Well it seems to me Yvonne you did do a great job finding that little one a wonderful home. It would be interesting to see what would happen if you put dividers in your little guys enclosure. Then took before and after pictures in about six months.


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## ascott (Aug 27, 2016)

Yvonne G said:


> Earlier this year, or maybe last year I adopted out a baby desert tortoise to @gabby.santana. Her new baby was one of six that were turned in to me in September, 2015. They had just hatched.
> 
> Gabby has been fairly active here on the Forum and has been taking the Forum's advice in caring for her new baby....and it shows!!
> 
> ...



Yvonne...rapid growth is not a gauge alone for representatiin of a healthier tortoise...while I am in no way saying anyone of those torts is more or less beautiful than the other...just sayin size is not a solo factor in a sign of health....


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## Anyfoot (Sep 1, 2016)

It will be interesting to see what yours are like when they are the same size as what Gabby's is now. 
And will someone please start a thread showing the difference between a desert and a sully, because at this size I'm stumped. Gabby's looks like a sully to me(the untrained eye) . 
They all look good btw.


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## bouaboua (Sep 1, 2016)

Yvonne G said:


> Turn your head...cover your eyes!


Bury your head in the sand is what I like to suggest......


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## Pearly (Sep 1, 2016)

@Yvonne G I think this speaks to yours and this forums great accomplishment! As a mentor/teacher/leader I can think of no greater reward then when my protégée exceeds my expectations and becomes better than me. Be happy and proud, Yvonne! You are teaching our next generation here. It always makes me feel very good when my apprentices shock me with even better version of what I had taught them. Part of me wants to be embarrassed bcs "why didn't I think of doing it this way?" but I quickly nip it in the bud. This calls for accolades, not embarrassment


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## Yvonne G (Sep 1, 2016)

Anyfoot said:


> It will be interesting to see what yours are like when they are the same size as what Gabby's is now.
> And will someone please start a thread showing the difference between a desert and a sully, because at this size I'm stumped. Gabby's looks like a sully to me(the untrained eye) .
> They all look good btw.



That's why I'm ashamed! They ARE the same age. Gabby adopted one out of a clutch of 6 that I had here and the smaller ones in the picture are what's left of that clutch.


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## Yvonne G (Sep 1, 2016)

Pearly said:


> @Yvonne G I think this speaks to yours and this forums great accomplishment! As a mentor/teacher/leader I can think of no greater reward then when my protégée exceeds my expectations and becomes better than me. Be happy and proud, Yvonne! You are teaching our next generation here. It always makes me feel very good when my apprentices shock me with even better version of what I had taught them. Part of me wants to be embarrassed bcs "why didn't I think of doing it this way?" but I quickly nip it in the bud. This calls for accolades, not embarrassment



Thank you!


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## dmmj (Sep 1, 2016)

I still can't look at you.


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## Fredkas (Sep 1, 2016)

Pearly said:


> @Yvonne G I think this speaks to yours and this forums great accomplishment! As a mentor/teacher/leader I can think of no greater reward then when my protégée exceeds my expectations and becomes better than me. Be happy and proud, Yvonne! You are teaching our next generation here. It always makes me feel very good when my apprentices shock me with even better version of what I had taught them. Part of me wants to be embarrassed bcs "why didn't I think of doing it this way?" but I quickly nip it in the bud. This calls for accolades, not embarrassment


Cannot agree more with this. @Yvonne G is one of several lovely person who passionately helping and giving her valuable knowledge to new keeper. When it comes to tortoise, it needs years to learn how to make it right. We as a new keeper should really lucky because we do not guess, we do not try to make things right, but we GET it. FREE, for that years experiments and knowledges. We should really thankfull.
I really want to visit vyonne and help him with anything at least a day in her old age. But i don't know if i can make it. I am tooooo farrrrrr awaaayyyyyy....lol.
Too far that when i am sleeping, she is roaming in her yard


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## Yvonne G (Sep 2, 2016)

Well, if you ever do find yourself here in the States, and on the west coast, my gate will be open for you!


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## Tom (Sep 2, 2016)

Yvonne G said:


> Here I'm supposed to be this experienced tortoise person and look at my babies compared to Gabby's.



Do you want us to give you some baby  raising tips???


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## Tom (Sep 2, 2016)

Rue said:


> I was under the impression it is better for them to grow more slowly...or more naturally ...and that rapid grow under ideal conditions was actually not good for their overall health.
> 
> My Hermanns is also big for her size. Nothing I can do about other than cut back food but since I don't think I am over-feeding or that she is over-eating I am not willing to do that.
> 
> I find this part of yet more conflicting advice.



I'm glad you brought this up. This is one of those often repeated myths from the past and its been hotly debated here and elsewhere many times. Growth _is_ one measure of good health and good husbandry. I've done repeated experiments with clutch mates side by side. One batch of 6 outside all day in a well planted enclosure, but inside in a humid chamber at night. The other batch of 6 inside most of the day with one hour outdoor excursions for sunning. All other variables were the same. All soaked daily. All eating the same food in the same quantity, but the outdoor group could also graze on the stuff growing in their pen. All at the same temps in the same room over night. The only variable was the amount of time spent outside during the day. The indoor group was 2 to 3 TIMES larger after 6-8 months. Was it "bad" for the indoor group to grow faster? Were they somehow less healthy? I say no. The outdoor group also showed mild pyramiding. Offering ideal conditions and having a tortoise "thrive" in our care is not a bad thing in my view.


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## Yvonne G (Sep 2, 2016)

Interesting. When Gabby came over and saw my baby habitat she said, "Oh, they're outside." Which I took to mean that hers is indoors.


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## Yvonne G (Sep 2, 2016)

Tom said:


> Do you want us to give you some baby  raising tips???



This is one reason I used to give all the rescued babies to my sister, Maggie, to head start. She always did much better with the babies than I did. I'm afraid 'tips' won't help me much. I just need to adopt them out sooner rather than keep them longer.


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## gabby.santana (Sep 8, 2016)

Yes I keep Mogali inside only because I was advised not to keep him out until he was older. Although I think he is too big for any of the birds we have in our neighborhood I'm scared my cat will get him.


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## Jim in Merced CA (Sep 8, 2016)

YvooneG - your 'service after the sale er.. Adoption' has been great. You're a terrific mentor and voice of reason since I adopted Ed Jones. Thank you!


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