# Your top 3 most neglected turtle/tortoise in the hobby?



## DoubleD1996! (Aug 8, 2021)

I feel as if there are some reptiles that are readily available, and often end up being neglected somewhere down the line. When it comes to turtles, what are your top three ? What do you feel can be done to improve this? Such as pricing, education etc.

Mine are:
The red eared slider
The african sideneck 
And the sulcata tortoise


----------



## Toddrickfl1 (Aug 8, 2021)

DoubleD1996! said:


> I feel as if there are some reptiles that are readily available, and often end up being neglected somewhere down the line. When it comes to turtles, what are your top three ? What do you feel can be done to improve this? Such as pricing, education etc.
> 
> Mine are:
> The red eared slider
> ...


I'd say
Red Ear Sliders
Sulcatas
Box turtles


Nothing gets under my skin more than seeing a deformed MBD riddled box turtle that someone "Rescued" from the side of the road a few years earlier.


----------



## DoubleD1996! (Aug 8, 2021)

Toddrickfl1 said:


> I'd say
> Red Ear Sliders
> Sulcatas
> Box turtles
> ...


Exactly. No uvb, no surface to keep the beak and nails trimmed, and feeding it like a tortoise instead of an omnivore.


----------



## Yvonne G (Aug 8, 2021)

The most neglected animals I used to get in my rescue were box turtles. Then leopards. These seem to be the most susceptible to poor care.


----------



## S2G (Aug 8, 2021)

Everything sold at a local Petco or chain store. Those stores really need to go out of business tbh. They hurt so much more than they help.

Top 3 around here. Sulcata's, Russians, & red ear sliders Thats just the cheapest & easiest to get. Education is there, but people refuse to look it up. Up the price is unfortunately the only way I see. That will drive demand way down & make people really think before buying. Only thing saving redfoots.

Exhibit A. One of the poor bastards that are unfortunate enough to do a seasonal stint at the local petco


----------



## DoubleD1996! (Aug 8, 2021)

S2G said:


> Everything sold at a local Petco or chain store. Those stores really need to go out of business tbh. They hurt so much more than they help.
> 
> Top 3 around here. Sulcata's, Russians, & red ear sliders Thats just the cheapest & easiest to get. Education is there, but people refuse to look it up. Up the price is unfortunately the only way I see. That will drive demand way down & make people really think before buying. Only thing saving redfoots.
> 
> ...


Highly agree. Prices should be raised and I think we need more mom and pop shops that educate people before they buy instead of desperately making a sale. Unfortunately, most cities only have these big chain stores.


----------



## Freddy90 (Aug 8, 2021)

DoubleD1996! said:


> I feel as if there are some reptiles that are readily available, and often end up being neglected somewhere down the line. When it comes to turtles, what are your top three ? What do you feel can be done to improve this? Such as pricing, education etc.
> 
> Mine are:
> The red eared slider
> ...



Here in austria its definitely the

Black knobbed map turtle (20 dollars)
Florida red-bellied cooter (30 dollars)
Common musk turtle (30 dollars)

The red eared slider would be number one but they prohibited the selling and breeding cause they are invasive here.


----------



## DoubleD1996! (Aug 8, 2021)

Freddy90 said:


> Here in austria its definitely the
> 
> Black knobbed map turtle (20 dollars)
> Florida red-bellied cooter (30 dollars)
> ...


Red ears thrive easily once released, and people just let them go when they get big thinking they're doing the right thing.


----------



## Maggie3fan (Aug 8, 2021)

DoubleD1996! said:


> Red ears thrive easily once released, and people just let them go when they get big thinking they're doing the right thing.


They are invasive anywhere. As an example...RES have taken over the territory, food sources, and just are nasty tempered to/at The Western Painted Turtle AND the Western Pond turtle...the only turtles native to the NW. Now both Western turtles are threatened because they are simply not aggressive turtles and RES are. I had a full grown female RES I named Scruffy because she'd been chewed by a dog. I kept her with top of the line care. I loved her as my first favorite water turtle...and to the day I passed her over to my sister's pond, that turtle tried to bite me taking my arm off at the shoulder...man she was mean


----------



## wellington (Aug 8, 2021)

S2G said:


> Everything sold at a local Petco or chain store. Those stores really need to go out of business tbh. They hurt so much more than they help.
> 
> Top 3 around here. Sulcata's, Russians, & red ear sliders Thats just the cheapest & easiest to get. Education is there, but people refuse to look it up. Up the price is unfortunately the only way I see. That will drive demand way down & make people really think before buying. Only thing saving redfoots.
> 
> ...


Do you ever say anything to the stores when you see bad care? If not, you need to. It's just as bad to ignore abuse. I tell my local stores every time if they haven't made the changes I have pointed out to them. They can't give more room but everything else they do can be changed. A little friendly advice and asking them to please better the life by changing to the correct things to use helps a lot.


----------



## TammyJ (Aug 9, 2021)

maggie3fan said:


> They are invasive anywhere. As an example...RES have taken over the territory, food sources, and just are nasty tempered to/at The Western Painted Turtle AND the Western Pond turtle...the only turtles native to the NW. Now both Western turtles are threatened because they are simply not aggressive turtles and RES are. I had a full grown female RES I named Scruffy because she'd been chewed by a dog. I kept her with top of the line care. I loved her as my first favorite water turtle...and to the day I passed her over to my sister's pond, that turtle tried to bite me taking my arm off at the shoulder...man she was mean


The RES have obviously evolved according to how they are treated by humans who buy and mistreat them. Their tendency for aggression is a reflection of years of being purchased and abused by us. So RES are aggressive. 
Tongue in cheek....kinda.
My RES, Jennie, was a crocodile in how she would lay in wait in the water in my pond, for the hapless pigeons who came along to drink. WHAM. DRAG. DEMOLISH.


----------



## TammyJ (Aug 9, 2021)

I am in Jamaica and we used to import RES on a regular, aggressive basis so I know about them, but not any other turtles to be able to compare. It does seem that the more common the turtle or tortoise, the more likely is the potential for abuse on the part of their owners.


----------



## DoubleD1996! (Aug 9, 2021)

TammyJ said:


> The RES have obviously evolved according to how they are treated by humans who buy and mistreat them. Their tendency for aggression is a reflection of years of being purchased and abused by us. So RES are aggressive.
> Tongue in cheek....kinda.
> My RES, Jennie, was a crocodile in how she would lay in wait in the water in my pond, for the hapless pigeons who came along to drink. WHAM. DRAG. DEMOLISH.


Whoa, but I wouldn't necessarily say that's agression, but an opportunity. They are opportunistic omnivores. She learned the pigeons routine and planned out her attack. Kinda like how crocodiles wait for game animals to come and drink. My box turtles will get ones or ahrews if they dig into the enclosure.


----------



## Yvonne G (Aug 9, 2021)

TammyJ said:


> The RES have obviously evolved according to how they are treated by humans who buy and mistreat them. Their tendency for aggression is a reflection of years of being purchased and abused by us. So RES are aggressive.
> Tongue in cheek....kinda.
> My RES, Jennie, was a crocodile in how she would lay in wait in the water in my pond, for the hapless pigeons who came along to drink. WHAM. DRAG. DEMOLISH.


Unless the human-made-aggressive RES was released into the wild to teach her offspring about being aggressive towards humans, I don't think this aggression is an evolutionary trait. . . but, wait. . . turtle mama waits around for eggs to hatch so she has a hand in teaching them???


----------



## NorCal tortoise guy (Aug 9, 2021)

Yvonne G said:


> Unless the human-made-aggressive RES was released into the wild to teach her offspring about being aggressive towards humans, I don't think this aggression is an evolutionary trait. . . but, wait. . . turtle mama waits around for eggs to hatch so she has a hand in teaching them???





TammyJ said:


> The RES have obviously evolved according to how they are treated by humans who buy and mistreat them. Their tendency for aggression is a reflection of years of being purchased and abused by us. So RES are aggressive.
> Tongue in cheek....kinda.
> My RES, Jennie, was a crocodile in how she would lay in wait in the water in my pond, for the hapless pigeons who came along to drink. WHAM. DRAG. DEMOLISH.


Sorry if I’m off topic but I feel red ear slider aggression and ability to push out other species has a lot to do with the other turtles they share there native area with. They need there aggression to compete and survive in there native habitat but in other areas it gives them the upper hand. Just my thoughts


----------



## DoubleD1996! (Aug 9, 2021)

NorCal tortoise guy said:


> Sorry if I’m off topic but I feel red ear slider aggression and ability to push out other species has a lot to do with the other turtles they share there native area with. They need there aggression to compete and survive in there native habitat but in other areas it gives them the upper hand. Just my thoughts


Exactly


----------



## S2G (Aug 9, 2021)

wellington said:


> Do you ever say anything to the stores when you see bad care? If not, you need to. It's just as bad to ignore abuse. I tell my local stores every time if they haven't made the changes I have pointed out to them. They can't give more room but everything else they do can be changed. A little friendly advice and asking them to please better the life by changing to the correct things to use helps a lot.


 
I do, but they simply don't care. Oh it does that all the time & flips back over. If every petco, petsmart, & large chain would stop selling livestock (including dog/cat adoptions) it would drastically reduce improper care of pets.


----------



## wellington (Aug 9, 2021)

S2G said:


> I do, but they simply don't care. Oh it does that all the time & flips back over. If every petco, petsmart, & large chain would stop selling livestock (including dog/cat adoptions) it would drastically reduce improper care of pets.


I have spoken to pet supplies plus, petco and petsmart. The employees, not managers. They have all made changes as i stood there and watched. Now, the problem comes with the turnaround with employees. The next new set might or might not go back to the old way. I just keep checking when I'm there and if needed, i educate the new ones. I have contacted corporate before and spoken with managers. Corp denies the care and blames it on individual stores and says they will speak to them. Of course they don't. Managers either blames corporate or says they will have someone make the changes and they dont. Best luck is with the employees, but the info just doesn't seem to always get past on.


----------



## kgepford (Aug 11, 2021)

DoubleD1996! said:


> I feel as if there are some reptiles that are readily available, and often end up being neglected somewhere down the line. When it comes to turtles, what are your top three ? What do you feel can be done to improve this? Such as pricing, education etc.
> 
> Mine are:
> The red eared slider
> ...


I'd love to know what do you think the reasons are? I've got an idea why, at least for the sulcata.


----------



## DoubleD1996! (Aug 11, 2021)

kgepford said:


> I'd love to know what do you think the reasons are? I've got an idea why, at least for the sulcata.


Red eared sliders are often needed to be rehomed or dumped in a local pond or stream where they thrive and are potentially detrimental to the native population of turtles. They could also carry harmful parasites that may be harmless in captivity, but could kill a wild population. As far as African sidenecks, they're cheap, people keep them for a while and want to get rid of them. People release them as well and they often die over winter. I've seen one in a lake I couldn't get to. And Sulcata's get massive. People don't plan out for the future, or think they're prepared. And some people don't provide them with the space they deserve.


----------



## kgepford (Aug 11, 2021)

Agree 100% — I think for Sulcatas the size is the issue. People have no clue how big those cute little hatchlings will grow – the lack of knowledge always astonishes me. It just points back to irresponsibility on the part of whoever's selling.


----------



## Jan A (Aug 11, 2021)

kgepford said:


> Agree 100% — I think for Sulcatas the size is the issue. People have no clue how big those cute little hatchlings will grow – the lack of knowledge always astonishes me. It just points back to irresponsibility on the part of whoever's selling.


This irresponsibility doesn't stop with torts & turtles in the animal world unfortunately. But the cure is not more laws, regulations & rules.


----------



## kgepford (Aug 11, 2021)

Jan A said:


> This irresponsibility doesn't stop with torts & turtles in the animal world unfortunately. But the cure is not more laws, regulations & rules.


I'm also a gardener, and I see it with Home Depot, for example, which stocks plants that are inappropriate for a region… yet they shamelessly sell these guaranteed-to-die plants to unwitting customers.


----------



## Noelluene (Oct 26, 2021)

I work at a local reptile shelter in China. We receive a ton of abandoned red ear sliders, Chinese stripe-necked turtles and yellow pond turtles.


----------



## DoubleD1996! (Oct 26, 2021)

Sitona said:


> I work at a local reptile shelter in China. We receive a ton of abandoned red ear sliders, Chinese stripe-necked turtles and yellow pond turtles.


Sad. At least they have a place to go, but I'm sure there's only so many they can take.


----------



## Noelluene (Oct 26, 2021)

DoubleD1996! said:


> Sad. At least they have a place to go, but I'm sure there's only so many they can take.


Normally when they come in they have injuries on their tails and legs. Extremely deformed shells are way to common among them. A lot of them are also either really aggressive or constantly nervous. It's honestly really sad to see them in such a state.


----------



## DoubleD1996! (Oct 26, 2021)

Sitona said:


> Normally when they come in they have injuries on their tails and legs. Extremely deformed shells are way to common among them. A lot of them are also either really aggressive or constantly nervous. It's honestly really sad to see them in such a state.


Its a shame. Even though they're some of the most common turtles, you can't deny their beauty and natural variations. People are only interested in them for a moment and then lose interest as if they're supposed to get up and do backflips through the house.


----------



## Noelluene (Oct 26, 2021)

There's this practice that is popular in Asia called "mercy release" where people release animals into the wild because they think it will bring them good fortune. Turtles are some of the most popular animals for this purpose because of how cheap they are. Unfortunately they are not native and lack any survival instinct.

People dump them into ponds in parks. Ponds that are not equipped for turtles, almost always filthy brown water, no source of food and extremely overcrowded. But that the worst thing that can happen to them. People have released freshwater turtles into the ocean because they don't understand the difference between sea turtles and freshwater turtles.


----------



## DoubleD1996! (Oct 26, 2021)

Sitona said:


> There's this practice that is popular in Asia called "mercy release" where people release animals into the wild because they think it will bring them good fortune. Turtles are some of the most popular animals for this purpose because of how cheap they are. Unfortunately they are not native and lack any survival instinct.
> 
> People dump them into ponds in parks. Ponds that are not equipped for turtles, almost always filthy brown water, no source of food and extremely overcrowded. But that the worst thing that can happen to them. People have released freshwater turtles into the ocean because they don't understand the difference between sea turtles and freshwater turtles.


That's terrible, but a lot of our elders still cling to their old/misinformed teachings, and unfortunately pass them down to their children. I saw a story on Instagram of someone tossing a sulcata they found into a lake because they thought it was aquatic.


----------



## TammyJ (Oct 27, 2021)

Sitona said:


> I work at a local reptile shelter in China. We receive a ton of abandoned red ear sliders, Chinese stripe-necked turtles and yellow pond turtles.


Hi. What happens to the turtles that you take into the shelter?


----------



## Maggie3fan (Oct 27, 2021)

I've been following this thread, I think it very interesting, I know Sulcata are like feral cats...and mostly free on the West Coast because I did some years of rescuing and my sister has been involved in rescue for 30 years or so...but how sad that is...look at pyramiding, MBD, homeless...etc and it's all Sulcata...but what species is the most personable? Sulcata...
the most hardy? Sulcata
the easiest care? Sulcata
the best eaters? Sulcata
eat anything? Sulcata
the most fun? Sulcata
most destructive? sulcata (shhh)


----------



## Noelluene (Oct 27, 2021)

TammyJ said:


> Hi. What happens to the turtles that you take into the shelter?


The ones that are successfully rehabilitated are put up for adoption, and luckily most animals are rehabilitated. We make sure that they will not be released again as we will request pictures of them every now and then to see how they are doing.

As for the few that are not suitable for adoption for whatever reason, they will either be used as educational pieces at the center or be sent to a local wildlife/animal sanctuary.


----------



## DoubleD1996! (Oct 27, 2021)

Sitona said:


> The ones that are successfully rehabilitated are put up for adoption, and luckily most animals are rehabilitated. We make sure that they will not be released again as we will request pictures of them every now and then to see how they are doing.
> 
> As for the few that are not suitable for adoption for whatever reason, they will either be used as educational pieces at the center or be sent to a local wildlife/animal sanctuary.


Great work


----------



## ZEROPILOT (Oct 27, 2021)

Sulcata and Redfoot.
In a Sulcata, new keepers have unrealistic expectations about keeping a 100 plus pound bulldozer. For most people It is a horrible casual purchase pet.
I case of a Redfoot, keeping up the humidity 24/7 is very challenging. A lot of new keepers get a Redfoot without truly understanding their needs. Then spend hundreds or more on meeting them.


----------

