# What should a 4-5 inch 2-3 yr old russian weigh?



## carnivorouszoo (Dec 23, 2011)

I'm not sure how much my tort should weigh, he's between 4 and 5 inches, 2-3 years old and weighed in at 365 grams. Not positive how a healthy RT's neck looks, mine, his neck is very thin right behind his head all the way to his body, the skin kind of hangs on it like a wet piece of paper but is very pale compared to his face and legs near the feet. Almost what you'd expect mummified skin to look like. Is this normal? He is my first tort and I just got him yesterday.


----------



## carnivorouszoo (Dec 23, 2011)

I found a chart and will get a yard stick tomorrow, I need a new one anyway. I estimate him to be about 4.5 inches, equalsabout 114 mm and according to the chart he should be 400 grams. I also read he should feel as heavy as a stone of the same size, but he feels rather light to me. My bearded dragon feels heavier.


----------



## dmarcus (Dec 23, 2011)

Wish I could help you, but I don't know anything about them other than they are great escape artists...


----------



## Talka (Dec 24, 2011)

My RT is 4" and weighs 320g. My vet said that's alright. 

Here's a picture of him, you can kinda see what the skin on an adult would look like. I think it's the best neck shot I have.


----------



## carnivorouszoo (Dec 25, 2011)

Oh, ok then his neck looks normal. A little thinner than yours but the color is right.


----------



## cemmons12 (Dec 25, 2011)

Ophelia is about 7 inchs long and she is right at 1050 grams and she is about 7 years old... But since I rescued her about 4 months ago she has been put on a proper diet and has been to the vet for the first time in her life. She had parasites so we have treated her for that as well. I would say she has gained about 150 grams in the 4 months I have had her, but I also give her more food then she needs, perhaps... LOL!!


----------



## Yvonne G (Dec 25, 2011)

I really have never worried about what my tortoises weigh (with the exception of the really big ones, for bragging purposes  ), but rather if they FEEL heavy or light. When you pick up a small tortoise it should feel like you've picked up a rock of about the same size. If it feels like your picked up a shell full of air, he's either dehydrated or need to fatten up.


----------



## carnivorouszoo (Dec 25, 2011)

He deffinitely feels light when I pick him up. I have been soaking him, and he is getting a great deal more variety than he was getting before. Its only been a few days but he looks better and is already eating from our hands if we offer him something. Thanks for the help guys!


----------



## lynnedit (Dec 25, 2011)

I have heard that the Jackson Ratio for measuring torts isn't accurate for Russians because of their rounded shells, so they often come out off of the graph one way or the other. There does not seem to be a guide for this group, at least one that has a lot of data.
I like the 'feel' test that Yvonne mentions, if they feel heavy when you pick them up (and can fit inside their shell when needed, lol), then not to worry. Some torts eat a lot then don't gain, and should be checked for parasites if they appear otherwise healthy.
Quiet day around here, so I just measured + weighed my 4, don't ask my why  

Big Girl 178mm (7") 1086gm
Mean Girl 159mm (6.25") 860gm
Little Guy 127mm (5.0") 461gm (newer, previous conditions pretty bad so I let him eat daily for now)
New Girl 114mm (4.5") 368gm

They all 'feel' pretty good and are active, especially the male. New girl is shy but coming out more and more.


----------



## Madkins007 (Dec 25, 2011)

The Donoghue Ratio works for any species of tortoise, but you need an accurate 
'straight-line carapace length' measurement to get a good reading. Use a metric ruler and lay it in the ground with '0' touching a wall*. Put the tort on it and push his head against the wall, and read the number it shows under his butt. (*- if the '0' is not on the very end, be sure to subtract whatever the gap is from the final measurement.

Another way to get an OK SCL is to turn the guy upside down and measure from front to back

Using that number (Straight-line Carapace Length in centimeters, or SCLcm), take it to the third power, then multiply that result by 0.191 to get the target minimum weight in grams. The formula looks like SCLcm^3 x 0.191 = WTgr

So... 4.5" is 11.4cm. 11.4^3 is 1481.5, times 0.191 is 283 grams, so if it really is 4.5" SCL, it is OK. However, if the 4.5" was measured across the curve, it will be a different result an the animal may well be underweight.


----------



## lynnedit (Dec 25, 2011)

No, I definitely measured along the bottom, 'straight line'. Good to know about the Donaghue Ratio, will make a note. Thanks!

Yes! that means 'Big Girl' should be 1077 so she is spot on!

CarnivorousZoo, try to get an accurate shell length as mentioned by Mark above. (Age is not as important, because that is affected by living conditions, etc.) Then you can do the calculations.


----------



## cemmons12 (Dec 25, 2011)

Madkins007 said:


> The Donoghue Ratio works for any species of tortoise, but you need an accurate
> 'straight-line carapace length' measurement to get a good reading. Use a metric ruler and lay it in the ground with '0' touching a wall*. Put the tort on it and push his head against the wall, and read the number it shows under his butt. (*- if the '0' is not on the very end, be sure to subtract whatever the gap is from the final measurement.
> 
> Another way to get an OK SCL is to turn the guy upside down and measure from front to back
> ...


Thanks for that Mark!! As I am still new to the tortoise world I have never heard of that Donoghue Ratio. I'm kind of excited to try this on Cooper and Ophelia now!


----------



## Madkins007 (Dec 26, 2011)

The Donoghue Ratio was originally published here: DONOGHUE, Susan,1997. "Nutritional status of tortoises using morphometrics to assess body condition".Vivarium magazine, Volume 8 Number 2.

I am going to try to digitize my copy of it and see if I can post it on my site.


----------



## lynnedit (Dec 26, 2011)

Might make a nice 'sticky' thread. Now that I know about it, I can find threads. Perhaps under tortoise health?


----------



## pdrobber (Dec 26, 2011)

amazing. I will bookmark this one...


----------



## carnivorouszoo (Dec 26, 2011)

I'm going to add that calculation method to my tort's notebook. I'm trying to keep all of his info together in one place.


----------



## Madkins007 (Dec 27, 2011)

I will try to write an article about the Donoghue ratio and either stick it or put it in the Tortoise Articles section.


----------



## carnivorouszoo (Dec 27, 2011)

Just measured him and he is 4.5 inches exactly. He weighed in at 381 grams. He feels heavier now too. I think he was a touch dehydrated.


----------



## pdrobber (Dec 29, 2011)

I'm gonna see if my Russians measure up today.


----------



## lynnedit (Dec 29, 2011)

Good idea! It is pretty interesting.


----------



## pdrobber (Dec 29, 2011)

hmm so it seems some of mine are normal weights while some are overweight! this surprises me because they seem small in their shells.


----------



## lynnedit (Dec 29, 2011)

I think the Donoghue calculation gives the minimum healthy weight. So some of yours may just be above this, but not necessarily overweight unless they are bulging out of their shells


----------

