# I feel sick to my stomach



## Meg90 (Mar 9, 2010)

My chahoua gecko, was shipped out of CA last night, supposed to arrive this morning BY 10:30. She's no doubt in the box with a heat pack, but those are supposed to last a maximum of 12 hours.

I was up until 4:10 AM refreshing that page for updates, and last I saw she was in Kentucky on schedule. 

I got up at 8:00 AM and she was in Oak Creek, WI (3hrs away) and have been checking every 30 minutes to see if there were updates.

15 minutes ago I got an email telling me my delivery had been RESCHEDULED due to weather. Oak Creek is fogged in (an "act of god" that they were unprepared for)

The first woman I talked too, told me basically to **** off. And said ALL of their customers were waiting, and what was she supposed to do? She didn't seem to understand the words LIVE ANIMAL. She gave me a number to the facility she will be shipped to next. 

I called them. THEY didn't want to deal with me either. Didn't understand that she CAN NOT sit in that box all day and still come out in good health, or even alive. I was close to tears in both of these conversations. They gave me the number to the UPS facility in my city.

I called them. REALLLY close to crying now. Told her about my package, and how it needed to be overnight, and here by 10:30, told her what was in the box (a verrrry expensive gecko) told her she NEEDED to get here today. And she sounded like she actually cared, which brought the tears even closer. 

The fog was supposed to clear by 10, so the planes could fly out, but no dice. She took my number, address, package # and name, and is supposed to call be BY 12:30 with an update.

I'm terrified my little girl is going to be DOA. She's a special needs animal, and I the stress is already supposed to have kinked her tail. 

I had a bad feeling all night yesterday. I didn't know why. Everyone chalked it up to being nervous because I have waited so long to get her. 

I need alittle moral support. I hardly got any sleep, and I keep tearing up.


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## Yvonne G (Mar 9, 2010)

...hoping for a good outcome!


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## spikethebest (Mar 9, 2010)

Oh Meg, I'm so sorry to hear that. If the planes cant make it, and its only 3 hours away, could you drive to the distribution center and pick her up?


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## Meg90 (Mar 9, 2010)

No. I can't drive there. I called again and asked if she was in a heated area because its only 33F out there. They said that there was no way to know because there are 10000's of packages awaiting shipment and they can't pick through them all to find her. 

A friend of mine just told me that a heat pack will keep her 10F warmer in an unheated area. She could very well be at 44F right now. Those temps will kill her. 

I'm terrified. No one can tell me anything, and the planes are still grounded.


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## Kymiie (Mar 9, 2010)

Hope you get her soon xx


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## terryo (Mar 9, 2010)

This is terrible for you and that baby Meg.....hugs and prayers coming your way now.


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## spikethebest (Mar 9, 2010)

Meg90 said:


> I'm terrified. No one can tell me anything, and the planes are still grounded.



can they tell you the flight number (call sign) of the aircraft that is scheduled to take your lil one?

if you know that, you can track the actual flight on www.flightaware.com

i use that to track flights all the time. there is about a 5 min delay on the radar feed. 

also, you can track the weather, and airport status on www.liveatc.net, to hear what the air traffic controllers are saying. 

what is the airport code of the airport? i can give you current weather, and see when a ground state will be lifted.


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## Tom (Mar 9, 2010)

Meg, I don't know that species of gecko, but I've seen lots of other very tropical geckos survive being chilled like that for days on end. I've had shipments of tropical reptiles and roaches get delayed in freezing conditions numerous times and they all arrived just fine. Keep your chin up, she'll probably be fine.


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## Meg90 (Mar 9, 2010)

I have hope. I got a response from the seller, and he's got a 40hr heatpack in with her, and used an extra thick layer of styro to help keep her warm.

She's a Rhacodactylus Chahoua gecko. They are pretty rare in the pet trade, and hard to breed. They are not supposed to drop below 65F. Come from New Caledonia. She's the Mainland locale.


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## spikethebest (Mar 9, 2010)

Meg90 said:


> She's a Rhacodactylus Chahoua gecko. They are pretty rare in the pet trade, and hard to breed. They are not supposed to drop below 65F. Come from New Caledonia. She's the Mainland locale.



WOW. sounds more expensive than a Galapagos tort!


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## Meg90 (Mar 9, 2010)

LOL not quite. The going rate for an unsexed hatchling is 450$ (which doesn't include shipping)

She's on a plane now. I'm still anxious to open her box, but atleast she's in transit now. Thanks for the support ya'll. I needed it.


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## jackrat (Mar 9, 2010)

In the early 80's,I dealt a lot of gheckos,probably over 1000.I've had them arrive so cold they could barely move or even appear dead.After a slow warm up period,a good 95% of them perked right back up.Don't try to do it too fast,just let him come up to room temprature,don't mess with him.Leave the enclosure relatively dark and minimize stress and stimulous.You'de be surprised what they can go through.


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## Jacqui (Mar 9, 2010)

I hope all ends up well. You have the added knowledge of a longer heat pak and more insulation. The fact that they usually hold the heat longer then advertised. Also you can hope that all those other packages are surrounding your box and keeping the gecko even more insulated.

It's always an added chance, when shipping this time of year, that such delays can turn into major disasters, that's why I won't risk shipping during the winter...even an animal that can take some added cold time.

I am amazed nobody took your problem too seriously. In the past when I have had delay issues, the box with the animal would be located and placed inside warm areas (usually the office). I even had a delivery guy from another route, go off route just to bring me my tortoise, rather then making it sit another day.

Keeping fingers crossed for your little guy.


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## BethyB1022 (Mar 9, 2010)

Sending warm thoughts your way, Meg. When I lived in Alaska I got fogged in more times than I can remember, very stressful, so I can empathize with the situation. Luckily it sounds like she's on her way now, make sure you give us all an update when she arrives!


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## dmmj (Mar 9, 2010)

well just try and remember the happy ending for the redfoot that encountered the same problem a few weeks ago.


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## ChiKat (Mar 9, 2010)

*fingers crossed* I'm sure she'll be fine! 
Keep us posted!!


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## Tim/Robin (Mar 9, 2010)

We received a Chuckwalla with a 40 hour heat pack in a 7X7X7 inch insulated box. When we opened the box it was 65F inside, it was 33F outside when he arrived. They work very well. I hope you have her now!


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## Meg90 (Mar 9, 2010)

She arrived, not really too much worse for wear, at 2:30 today. It was pretty stressful for both of us, I'm sure. Here's my new favorite picture.  I'm thinking of calling her Primrose. 






I hand fed her some warm crested gecko diet.


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## Tom (Mar 9, 2010)

Ahh. Good news. Glad it all worked out.


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## spikethebest (Mar 9, 2010)

so happy!!!! and what a great pic!!


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## kimber_lee_314 (Mar 9, 2010)

So glad to hear it! I've been watching this post all day! What a relief!


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## jdawn (Mar 9, 2010)

She's beautiful and I am so happy for both of you~ give her lots of 'geckoey' hugs and kisses!


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## Candy (Mar 9, 2010)

So happy everything turned out for the best.


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## Jacqui (Mar 9, 2010)

Glad everything worked out well! I like her new name.


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## terryo (Mar 9, 2010)

I love that picture Meg. Got any more pictures of her....in color?


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## TortieGal (Mar 9, 2010)

She is really cool looking! glad she's ok. Would love to see more pictures.


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## ChiKat (Mar 9, 2010)

Yayyy!! Congrats on your new addition  
Glad she made it safe and sound.


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## Stephanie Logan (Mar 9, 2010)

Thank goodness!

Watch out or she may get used to that hand feeding!


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## Meg90 (Mar 9, 2010)

There is more to this story now. I am so sad. She came to me skinny, and possibly gravid. If its not an egg, its an internal blockage.

Here are the pictures of her I took today.

Her hips, this one also shows the bulge we believe is an egg






More bulge shots









Her poor skinny face





She weighs only 36g. I was told she was 43g at her lowest.

Because of all this, I have been agonizing over what to do all afternoon. I've been crying pretty much steadily since 3:30 when I weighed her. I sent the pictures to the seller and he gave me a full refund within 20 minutes. He feels terrible. He did not examine her before she went in the box. He told me he didn't intend to sell me a sick animal, and that he will pay for return shipping and the vet care she requires. 

It hasn't helped with the guilt. Reid says its not my fault, and I know that. But I still feel like dirt right now.


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## terryo (Mar 9, 2010)

What a mess Meg. I feel so bad for you. Are you going to send her back now? She's so beautiful even with her problems.


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## sammi (Mar 9, 2010)

Umm..."he didn't examine her before putting her in the box"...That is a very poor excuse. You don't have to examine her to see how skinny she is. That's good he refunded you..but still, how can you not notice something as serious as that? I'm sorry Meg. I hope you keep her and bring her back up to speed =]


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## Meg90 (Mar 9, 2010)

He's asked for her back, and is going to get her the vet care (the expensive vet care) that she needs. He feels terrible about it. Said it would be unfair to burden me like that. It was a condition of the refund. 

When I bought her this was the description I was given: *I also have a "rescue" mainland chahoua female. I traded $800 worth of geckos for her and when I got her she was gravid and had kinks in her tail. I worked with her for quite some time and she is pretty much normal normal now with just a few small squiggles in her tail. I think with some TLC she could breed again later this year or next year. I don't have a pic of her but she would be $--- due to her imperfections. Talk to you soon!
*

I'll keep you all updated on this. Today was absolutely my worst day in months. No holds barred. I feel like dirt.


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## Candy (Mar 9, 2010)

Oh now I'm confused. If he is the breeder and he sent her to you like that what happens when you send her back? Do you really think that he will take care of her because he didn't even think there was anything wrong with her when he sold her to you. Don't mean to confuse you anymore then you are, but is there anyway you could keep her? She'd probably be better off with you. I'm aware that I know nothing about these so maybe I shouldn't say anything, but I know how passionate you are for these little guys and I'm questioning this guy and what he's up to.


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## dreadyA (Mar 9, 2010)

What the heck. Why would he put such an underweight female gecko with a male? Or did he receive her like that too? Would she crash if she laid the egg?


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## Meg90 (Mar 9, 2010)

She came gravid to him, and had a Ca crash after that. I've seen pictures of over 50 of his other individuals, and they are all flawless. He's had glowing reviews across the bored from the BOI, never a single complaint.

This was a fluke, and I know he probably noticed that she did not look right as he was packing, her but since I agreed to buy her "pet quality" didn't think I would even say anything. But she is much, much worse than described. We've been talking since January and not once were any of these problems mentioned. This was his last email to me, after he put the money back in my paypal, he sent it.

_*It is no problem at all about the refund. This is an unfortunate situation and I am sorry that your first experience with chahoua has not been perfect. However, if you wouldn't mind sending her back in the near future, I think that would be the best idea. Of course I would pay you for the shipping fees. I have a close friend who is a vet that could do any treatments she may need for free and I am positive he can find a good home for her afterward. I do not want you to incur any more additional costs on her as it is unfair to you. You are right in saying that the gecko is not in the condition we discussed when you purchased her and I would never feel right if you had to pay anything for the well being of that animal. 

To be honest, I had to ship around 40+ geckos to be exported to Germany yesterday morning as well so my past week has been more focused on making sure those arrive safely since they have a long trip to go during this cold month. I know that every gecko deserves the same attention but with my limited time after work, I did not take a very close look at her before I sent her to you. If I had examined her more closely while packing her, I would have never shipped her to you. From the pictures you sent, it does appear to be an egg. The last time she was with a male was before she was sent to me mid-last year. Since then, she has been kept alone and I had no intention of breeding her. Please let me know when you can ship her back and I will give you a good deal on a different chahoua later this year. Talk to you soon. *_

It was a terrible ordeal for all involved. He feels just as badly as I do about it. He will give her the care she deserves.


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## chadk (Mar 10, 2010)

I'm wondering if he's just going to turn around and sell her to get some of his money back...

I can't believe he was advertising her as a breeder!! Or was the kinked tail not genetic, but the result of poor care or an accident of some kind???

Were you planning on breeding her?


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## Meg90 (Mar 10, 2010)

No Chad, she wasn't going to be a breeder with me, and after this last health fiasco, she won't for anyone else either. If she cant pass that egg for me, when she is shipped back, it will be removed, and she will more than likely be steralized in the process so that it doesn't happen again.

Her tail kinks are from Calcium deficiency. Chahoua are known to over-calcify their eggs, and the levels of Ca needed to sustain them during the breeding season are very high. A Ca crash is not uncommon with a lack luster keeper. Derek got her this way, gravid and under calcified. As big as his opperation is, she never fully recouped. 

I will probably have her for atleast a few weeks. If I can get her eating, and some extra Ca in her, I may just keep her, or rehome her myself. I do not like the idea of shipping sick animals. 

But most of this boils down the egg, and whether or not she can lay it. 

Her return was not a part of the *original* refund agreement, and I have the email to prove it. He emailed later on in the night, asking for her back to save me the trouble of vet bills, so it is entirely up to me now, whether she stays or goes back. I am handfeeding her later tonight, and loving her now just as I love my other animals.

Her name is Primrose.


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## jackrat (Mar 10, 2010)

One question Meg,did you look at a picture of her before you ordered her?


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## terryo (Mar 10, 2010)

Keep her Meg. She is much better off with you now.


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## Meg90 (Mar 10, 2010)

Jackrat, that's a wee bit rude, don't you think? I wasn't born yesterday. The one on the first page of this thread was a recent photo of her. Notice that it does not show her body, or he tail at all. I took photos of her yesterday wherein she looked perfectly healthy. Its not a hard thing to do with any animal. This seller has nothing but glowing ratings with the BOI either.


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## Candy (Mar 10, 2010)

I agree with Terry. She'd be in much better hands with you.


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## dreadyA (Mar 10, 2010)

I am really sorry you're going through this. I think you should keep her as well.


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## jackrat (Mar 10, 2010)

Meg90 said:


> Jackrat, that's a wee bit rude, don't you think? I wasn't born yesterday. The one on the first page of this thread was a recent photo of her. Notice that it does not show her body, or he tail at all. I took photos of her yesterday wherein she looked perfectly healthy. Its not a hard thing to do with any animal. This seller has nothing but glowing ratings with the BOI either.


Wasn't trying to be rude.Just curious,thats all.


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## sammi (Mar 11, 2010)

Well....Are you going to keep her?


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## Stephanie Logan (Mar 11, 2010)

I understand how you feel. She's already been through enough, and is in a weakened state. If you keep her you'll know she is getting the care she needs. 

If the seller refunds your purchase price, you could probably afford a vet visit or two. I'm just afraid that the egg issue will cause serious, longterm and expensive procedures.

I hope she gets better so she can be a healthy, feisty pet worthy of the Meg Menagerie!


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## Meg90 (Mar 11, 2010)

I called for a phone consultaton, xrays are 127.32$ the initial exam is 68$ a shot of pitocin to see if that would help her pass the egg would be around 30$ at least, and surgery will be in the $200's. And antibiotics after the surgery would be another 30-40$

I got some tips from a friend on how to make her a bit more comfortable so she will lay it, but so far, no dice. 

I'm still so upset. I wanted THIS gecko for months. I stared at pictures of her every day since January. But long-term we are talking around 400$ with no guarantee she will survive it. 

I'm so upset that someone could let her get this bad. Two people mistreated her, one on purpose by breeding her the first time, when she was so small, and the other by negligence, and not having enough time to devote to her to help her fully recover. 

He tricked me into buying her. When I look at that photo on the first page of this thread, you can see her hipbones (not as pronounced as now, but still very visible) so I KNOW that he saw how she was getting----


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## spikethebest (Mar 11, 2010)

get a quote in writing from this Vet, send it to the seller, and have him pay for it. if he was going to take her to the Vet anyways, then why wouldnt he just pay your Vet? this saves $$ on shipping, and the stress the shipping would cause. 

and most importantly, she would stay in your care.


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## jackrat (Mar 11, 2010)

I'm starting to feel a little sick to my stomach over tis whole thing.


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## Stephanie Logan (Mar 11, 2010)

I like Cory's idea. Or maybe the vet could be called with the shipper's charge card number, and can just bill him for the care and procedures.


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## sammi (Mar 11, 2010)

Cory's idea sounds good. Frankly, I think if you tried to ship her back, it doesn't sound like she'd make it....


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## Yvonne G (Mar 12, 2010)

The seller was very quick to give you back your money. Now you must be quick about sending the animal back. Make arrangements to ship it first thing next week. 

If there were going to be negotiations about vet bills, keeping the animal, etc. that should have happened prior to you getting your money back. 

Send it back!


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## spikethebest (Mar 12, 2010)

I thought the refund was NOT sent with the condition of returning her. I understood it as more of a good will gesture, rather than he required you to return it.


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## Jacqui (Mar 20, 2010)

How is Primrose doing?


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## Crazybirds (Mar 22, 2010)

It's sooo heartbreaking cuz I'm sure even though this is all happening it's probably breaking your heart at the thought of sending her back. We all know as soon as you open the box you love her and are attached to her immediately. I hope it all works out for you and Primrose.


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