# Hatching Tortoise Without the Shell



## Arizona Sulcata (Jun 21, 2018)

Giving my best go at hatching a Sulcata without the egg shell. Most of you probably know that some of the eggs get cracked during the nesting/laying process. When that happens it always dries out and I've never had one hatched even with the slightest tiniest cracks. I decided to take one of those cracked eggs and bypass the shell altogether. So far so good... Here is its progress on day 15.


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## daniellenc (Jun 21, 2018)

Isn’t there a safe way to cover the crack? I’ve read about on here but can’t remember the name of the thread. Will be interesting to see what this one does.


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## Arizona Sulcata (Jun 21, 2018)

daniellenc said:


> Isn’t there a safe way to cover the crack? I’ve read about on here but can’t remember the name of the thread. Will be interesting to see what this one does.


I've given a try at a few different methods without much success.


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## wellington (Jun 21, 2018)

Yes, I remember someone mending cracks. I don't remember who or if those eggs every hatched.
This is very interesting. If this works, which I hope it does. I'm going to feel like such a failure as I have only gotten 6 eggs to hatch out of about a 100. Not the reason I gave up breeding but a small part of it
Wondering, did you take great care to be sure this was all done in a sterile way? I would even think any air exchange would have stopped the progress.
Please keep this thread updated along the whole process.


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## Turtulas-Len (Jun 21, 2018)

Be nice if it works, Good Luck.


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## Toddrickfl1 (Jun 21, 2018)

wellington said:


> Yes, I remember someone mending cracks. I don't remember who or if those eggs every hatched.
> This is very interesting. If this works, which I hope it does. I'm going to feel like such a failure as I have only gotten 6 eggs to hatch out of about a 100. Not the reason I gave up breeding but a small part of it
> Wondering, did you take great care to be sure this was all done in a sterile way? I would even think any air exchange would have stopped the progress.
> Please keep this thread updated along the whole process.


It was Tortstork I think, don't remember if it hatched though. Be interesting to seethe resultsof this though.


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## NorCal tortoise guy (Jun 21, 2018)

very interested to see if this works! I on the other hand have hatched several cracked Sulcata eggs even with big cracks (but the hatchlings do come out smaller then a healthy egg) I don't think the inner membrane has even been broken on one that hatches though. I also remember seeing a thread on repairing eggs they used new skin I think.


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## Maro2Bear (Jun 21, 2018)

Toddrickfl1 said:


> It was Tortstork I think, don't remember if it hatched though. Be interesting to seethe resultsof this though.



I think your right. In the end, i think not successful....


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## Tom (Jun 21, 2018)

Someone else on one contentious thread many years ago said that any cracked or dimpled egg could not be hatched. Never. I replied that I did it regularly. He didn't believe me, so I took pictures and proved it. Marked the egg after it was laid and showed it pipping and hatching. He didn't argue with me anymore after that.

In fact, I've got some cracked ones due to hatch any day now. I'll try to get pics before they hatch and after. They are the eggs from the "2018 Incubation Experiment". https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/2018-incubation-experiment.165106/
You can see the cracked eggs in the back row of each box.

You experiment is pretty neat. Can we get more details on how you are doing it?


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## MichaelaW (Jun 21, 2018)

Watching with great interest!


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## KaitlovesLeopardTortoise (Jun 21, 2018)

So awesome keep us updated please!!!


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## BevSmith (Jun 21, 2018)

How exciting!


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## Arizona Sulcata (Jun 21, 2018)

Tom said:


> Someone else on one contentious thread many years ago said that any cracked or dimpled egg could not be hatched. Never. I replied that I did it regularly. He didn't believe me, so I took pictures and proved it. Marked the egg after it was laid and showed it pipping and hatching. He didn't argue with me anymore after that.
> 
> In fact, I've got some cracked ones due to hatch any day now. I'll try to get pics before they hatch and after. They are the eggs from the "2018 Incubation Experiment". https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/2018-incubation-experiment.165106/
> You can see the cracked eggs in the back row of each box.
> ...


Very interesting Tom! I get probably 100 eggs per year with the smallest of cracks and have never had a single one hatch, I wonder what the difference is between our experiences?

As for how I went about doing it... Nothing crazy. I took a Solo cup, put some plastic wrap over it, cracked open the already cracked egg, dumped it into the plastic wrap, folded the plastic wrap back over itself and the egg, and sealed it off with a rubber band around the rim of the cup. 

I'm sure this will take a few tries to perfect. I tried this as part of a series of other "egg saving" tests where I tested several different ways to seal the cracks in different eggs but none worked. I wish I had tried this method bypassing the shell altogether with several different eggs in hindsight, that'll be next laying season for sure. Fingers crossed I have beginners luck and this little guy makes it to full term. 

I will keep everyone posted on this thread throughout the journey!


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## Turtulas-Len (Jun 21, 2018)

The difference could be the eggs. tortoise eggs are hard shelled more like chicken eggs and box turtle eggs aren't.


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## Arizona Sulcata (Jun 21, 2018)

Turtulas-Len said:


> The difference could be the eggs. tortoise eggs are hard shelled more like chicken eggs and box turtle eggs aren't.


Tom and I are both referencing Sulcata eggs.


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## Salspi (Jun 21, 2018)

I wish u Good luck with hatching it. But, I think it would fail because regular eggs absorb water from the nesting box substrate and humid air...... Can’t do it with plastic wrap. Are you planning on giving it like a drop of water a day? That might be a more interesting test.


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## Redfool (Jun 22, 2018)

Read somewhere that some calcium is absorbed by the embryo to help build bones and shell. Also that an egg shell is porous to exchange O2 and CO2 and moisture. When the turtle inside gets big enough and the egg shell gets thinned enough the demand of exchanged of gasses is too much for the embryo and thus triggers hatching. Good luck, hope it works but Mother Nature has millions of years of experience at this. The title of the post scared me at first, you should have put “eggshell”.


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## WithLisa (Jun 22, 2018)

Interesting picture! 
Did you poke some holes into the plastic wrap for air exchange? Since this is necessary for chicken embryos, tortoises most likely also need it.


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## mrnewberry (Jun 22, 2018)

Salspi said:


> I wish u Good luck with hatching it. But, I think it would fail because regular eggs absorb water from the nesting box substrate and humid air...... Can’t do it with plastic wrap. Are you planning on giving it like a drop of water a day? That might be a more interesting test.



It has been done before. Perhaps not set up exactly this way or with this species though. I’m not sure what the success rate is or if it works well for some species and not for others.


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## Sesel (Jun 22, 2018)

daniellenc said:


> Isn’t there a safe way to cover the crack? I’ve read about on here but can’t remember the name of the thread. Will be interesting to see what this one does.



https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/broken-egg-fertile.165207/#post-1595293


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## Tom (Jun 22, 2018)

Arizona Sulcata said:


> Very interesting Tom! I get probably 100 eggs per year with the smallest of cracks and have never had a single one hatch, I wonder what the difference is between our experiences?
> 
> As for how I went about doing it... Nothing crazy. I took a Solo cup, put some plastic wrap over it, cracked open the already cracked egg, dumped it into the plastic wrap, folded the plastic wrap back over itself and the egg, and sealed it off with a rubber band around the rim of the cup.
> 
> ...


Fascinating! You've clearly got some development happening there. I can't wait to see how this will work out and what we will learn. Thanks for posting this.


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## tortoiseplanet (Jun 22, 2018)

Theoretical Experiment:
Poke a few micro holes for air exchange, increase the humidity, and sprinkle a very slight amount of Calcium without D3 or egg shell powder on the top of the embryo. 

The holes will allow air exchange, the humidity will prevent it from drying, the calcium will be absorbed by the embryo.


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## Arizona Sulcata (Jun 22, 2018)

tortoiseplanet said:


> Theoretical Experiment:
> Poke a few micro holes for air exchange, increase the humidity, and sprinkle a very slight amount of Calcium without D3 or egg shell powder on the top of the embryo.
> 
> The holes will allow air exchange, the humidity will prevent it from drying, the calcium will be absorbed by the embryo.


I like that idea! I will definitely give it a try next time!


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## CarolM (Jun 22, 2018)

Arizona Sulcata said:


> Giving my best go at hatching a Sulcata without the egg shell. Most of you probably know that some of the eggs get cracked during the nesting/laying process. When that happens it always dries out and I've never had one hatched even with the slightest tiniest cracks. I decided to take one of those cracked eggs and bypass the shell altogether. So far so good... Here is its progress on day 15.
> View attachment 242639


Wow. I have read about this before. I really hope you are successful and will be very interested in following your thread right to the end. Thank you so much for letting us be part of the process.


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## mrnewberry (Jun 22, 2018)

https://www.instagram.com/turtlevale


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## CarolM (Jun 22, 2018)

wellington said:


> Yes, I remember someone mending cracks. I don't remember who or if those eggs every hatched.
> This is very interesting. If this works, which I hope it does. I'm going to feel like such a failure as I have only gotten 6 eggs to hatch out of about a 100. Not the reason I gave up breeding but a small part of it
> Wondering, did you take great care to be sure this was all done in a sterile way? I would even think any air exchange would have stopped the progress.
> Please keep this thread updated along the whole process.


I second and third and fourth that. [emoji3]


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## Arizona Sulcata (Jun 22, 2018)

mrnewberry said:


> https://www.instagram.com/turtlevale


That is where I got the idea!


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## CarolM (Jun 22, 2018)

CarolM said:


> Wow. I have read about this before. I really hope you are successful and will be very interested in following your thread right to the end. Thank you so much for letting us be part of the process.


If I remember correctly this was done with great success by a Japanese scientist with a chicken egg.


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## CarolM (Jun 22, 2018)

CarolM said:


> If I remember correctly this was done with great success by a Japanese scientist with a chicken egg.


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## tortoiseplanet (Jun 22, 2018)

CarolM said:


> If I remember correctly this was done with great success by a Japanese scientist with a chicken egg.



It was also done by @turtlevale on Instagram
www.instagram.com/turtlevale

Day 8:



Day 33:


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## CarolM (Jun 22, 2018)

tortoiseplanet said:


> It was also done by @turtlevale on Instagram
> www.instagram.com/turtlevale
> 
> Day 8:
> ...


Just saw that now. So Very interesting.


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## wellington (Jun 22, 2018)

tortoiseplanet said:


> It was also done by @turtlevale on Instagram
> www.instagram.com/turtlevale
> 
> Day 8:
> ...


Wow, very cool. Did I tell live do you know?


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## tortoiseplanet (Jun 22, 2018)

wellington said:


> Wow, very cool. Did I tell live do you know?



Yes, it is still alive


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## Arizona Sulcata (Jun 23, 2018)

Just an FYI for anyone who wants to follow... I tried posting a video of the heartbeat but it wouldn't let me do it here. I will post updates here but more often so on my Instagram @AZSulcata and Facebook page Arizona Sulcata. The video can be seen there. 

It's crazy how fast it is changing from the first picture I posted two days ago. Yesterday there was a visible heartbeat which couldn't be seen the day before, and this morning the head is much larger and moving along with a more defined eye.


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## Yvonne G (Jun 23, 2018)

I wondered about the air tight plastic wrap too. If I'm remembering correctly, the embryo absorbs calcium from the shell, and oxygen gets through the shell too. But obviously your air tight plastic wrap is doing ok. I'm anxious to watch the growth.


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## WithLisa (Jun 30, 2018)

What happened to the embryo, is it still alive?


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## Arizona Sulcata (Jul 21, 2018)

UPDATE:

Around day 25 there appeared to be a bubble that formed on top of the yolk and I didn't think much of it. The next day I checked on it and the embryo and yolk had collapsed. Not sure why, possibly from me handling too much. Not entirely sure but that's my best guess. 

Here is another one from a different clutch. It is on day 46, still progressing nicely. This is the furthest I've had one get so far. It's not clear in the photo but its shell has started to form which I'm very excited about!!


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## KarenSoCal (Jul 21, 2018)

How long does a normal egg take to hatch?


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## Arizona Sulcata (Jul 21, 2018)

KarenSoCal said:


> How long does a normal egg take to hatch?


For me normally 90 days.


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## KarenSoCal (Jul 21, 2018)

Arizona Sulcata said:


> For me normally 90 days.


So you are half way! Cool!


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## MPRC (Jul 21, 2018)

Wow!


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## Turningstar (Jul 22, 2018)

That is the coolest thing EVER!!


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## CarolM (Jul 23, 2018)

Arizona Sulcata said:


> UPDATE:
> 
> Around day 25 there appeared to be a bubble that formed on top of the yolk and I didn't think much of it. The next day I checked on it and the embryo and yolk had collapsed. Not sure why, possibly from me handling too much. Not entirely sure but that's my best guess.
> 
> ...


I find this absolutely fascinating. Thank you for keeping us updated. Really looking forward to further updates.


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