# HE OR SHE that is the question! LOL



## nascarmw (Oct 20, 2010)

Ok I am going to attempt to put some pics up of Penelope/Elliott in hopes of getting the gender right and also some idea on his/her age LOL. I would appreciate any input on this matter!! also he/she did not come out for two days and is now awake..should I feed or not as it is close to hybernation time and I have read online that you should not feed them for two weeks before they hybernate..any truth to that?? thanks ahead of time for all your help!! Lisa (nascarmw)


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## Neal (Oct 20, 2010)

Not sure about your tortoise, but the box turtle in the last picture is a male.


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## armandoarturo (Oct 20, 2010)

I would say its a female... but from the top it sort of looks like a male.
but gular horn and plastron looks female
can you take pictures of the gular horn, tail, and a picture of the plastron but from a side angle??
and about food before hibernation....
(In my experience) ... My DT's are free in my yard, I always leave food around, even before hibernation. I let them do what their instinct tells them to do.


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## egyptiandan (Oct 20, 2010)

Looks like a young male to me.  Probably 10 to 12 years old.

Danny


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## Laura (Oct 20, 2010)

and just a note... the boxie and the desert.. should not be kept together... Deserts are very sensitive to germs or others and it can make them sick...


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## Torty Mom (Oct 21, 2010)

Laura said:


> and just a note... the boxie and the desert.. should not be kept together... Deserts are very sensitive to germs or others and it can make them sick...



The boxie is mine and the cdt is Lisa's, they were just seeing each other for the first time, it lasted about 10 minutes. They are NOT housed together at all, so no worries there.


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## nascarmw (Oct 21, 2010)

egyptiandan said:


> Looks like a young male to me.  Probably 10 to 12 years old.
> 
> Danny



well the reason I ask is we went to our tortoise club meeting and was telling them about this meeting between Rusty and Penelope and I had never seen her act like this, with the bobbing of her head and going after him and they said that was a sexual aggression move that a male does! and they dont get sexually mature untill they are 15- 20 years old. all this time I was thinking SHE was 7! boy am I confused now!! Rusty and Penelope met only for a few minutes, Penelope is my DT and Mary Ann has the baby DT that I babysit for and Rusty is her BT. thanks for any help here!! Lisa


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## nascarmw (Oct 21, 2010)

heres a couple more pics I took this morning as he's awake again today but moving very very slow.


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## pongpagong (Oct 21, 2010)

I think she is a female...about 7-8 years old..check the tortoise trust website about hibernation.


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## dmmj (Oct 21, 2010)

Regarding sexual maturity it is true that sexual maturity was based on age but most people nowadays base it on size rather than age, because captive kept animals are usually fed better they grow quicker and reach maturity quicker than they do in the wild. A wild one would take 15 to 20 years because they don't get a lot of food, while their captive kept counterparts are fed better and thus they grow quicker.


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## Maggie Cummings (Oct 21, 2010)

You don't want any food left in a tort that is going to hibernate because the food will rot in the intestines and the tort can get sick or die. That is what we have always believed. I don't hibernate any of my animals because it seem to cause so many problems for others...


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## Torty Mom (Oct 21, 2010)

Penelope/Elliott has a concave plastron and two glands under the chin, 2 items we have been told are true for males only? Right? Lisa and I are neighbors, she baby sits my hatchling CDT. Confusing!! Sorry! I am convinced that Elliott is a he. What do you guys think?  Mary Anne


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## armandoarturo (Oct 21, 2010)

hmm...
Its still tricky for me ...
I've never really met a young male.. I wouldn't know If yours its a young male. (I have just big and mature males)
As I see in the pictures, plastron is not concave at all.... mature males are really concave, you can see a picture of how would it look like in the important threads at the top of North american tortoises section... The thing its that I don't really know, maybe its too young and it is almost taking the concave shape, and developing the long gular horn.
But now that your saying it... it does have glands too big for a female...
also.. tail looks a bit longer, and hind leg nails aren't that big...
Maybe your right... Im changing my opinion I would say its a young male....
how are you dealing with the hibernation food thing?


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## Yvonne G (Oct 22, 2010)

I'm gonna' have to go with Danny on this one. Here's my thinking:

Desert tortoises are pretty hard to tell unless you have a male and a female right side-by-side. But your tortoise's over-all shape is in a sort of wedge, narrow in the front and wider in the back. Females are "rounder." He has a pretty big gular (the part that sticks out under the chin), and a pretty big tail. Females have very small stubby tails. The fact that he's smooth on the bottom really doesn't let you know anything because he's still young. That will change as he grows older.


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