# Got a softie today :(



## Torty Mom (Aug 26, 2011)

Need some CDT help from you fine folks here!!

One of my co-workers brought me her hatchling CDT today, who is soft as can be. Plastron is MEGA soft and the carapace, has Alot of give. 

I put the little dude under my MVB for about 4 hours then I took him outside for 2 more hours, he ate some grape leaf and a few bites of Mazui.

Some of my concerns are that he may be blind. How can you tell? He would bump the food with his nose, normal, then when he tried to eat, he wouldn't chomp forward, he chomped straight up in the air, like I was holding the food above his head. His eyes are a little puffy and the first thing my son said when he saw him was why is he so flat. So I am also thinking he has the beginnings of MBD. I have not seen him walk around much, hopefully tomorrow I can watch him more closely. 

Question: how should I soak him with him being so soft? Should I do the bird vitamin and then baby food or both or neither? I am just so worried because he is sooooo soft. 

Thanks in advance everyone, I'll post pictures of him tomorrow.


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## dmmj (Aug 26, 2011)

It's eating right? I would use bird vitamin myself lots of calcium and sunshine.


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## ascott (Aug 26, 2011)

oh jeeeez.....the description that you give about the air head while trying to eat is what my old man humphry does and he can see little to nothing out of his left eye and his "good" eye I believe is affected as well, I believe my guy has cataract type thing....

However, you can do the sneak up on him thing....set him down (or on table top since he is a little dude  ) and step out of his view completely for a moment....then quickly appear on say the left side but not so quick as to cause a gust of wind and see if he flinches or reacts at all...then do the same on the other side....while this will not be full proof as he may not react due to his age and his medical state at present...it may help you to try to determine if he is seeing much....

I think that you are bang on with the MVB.....I would continue that when you can not have him outside in the natural sun.....you said he bumped the food....did he eat? If yes then that is a positive sign  Even if he is air heading trying to get food, you can put the food right in his mouth (this is what I had to do for a bit when my guy was under the weather before) and hopefully he will eat it that way till he gathers some strength....

I have never used bird vitamins nor baby food soaks....I would if I find the need ever to....so I can not share any experience with you on this....I would not even venture to give an opinion for fear I was wrong when this sounds like such a delicate time for the little guy....

Gosh....I will send out the prayers for your little one


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## Torty Mom (Aug 26, 2011)

Thanks Angela! When he was trying to eat and doing the air biting, it was like he didn't know where it was, so I smeared a little chunk of mazuri on my finger and when he opened his mouth I stuck my finger right on his mouth, so he grazed my finger and got a little mazuri at the same time. When he was trying to eat the leaf, he was chomping all over the place, so when he chomped and opened his mouth, I put a little bit of leaf in his open mouth. Talk about timing!

I can take my finger and put it on his nose and he does not pull into his shell. I will try the sneak up method. He is tiny only 2.8 oz. 

I just don't know if I should or how to soak him because he is so soft, I don't want to make it worse.


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## ascott (Aug 26, 2011)

it totally is a timing thing .....I knew my Humphry was getting better when one day he was eating and actually got my finger (my timing faulted for a fraction of a moment  ) and it pinched....I was so damn happy....now he eats like a small cow on a huge farm...

okay, so if I were going to give my opinion....with what you have described, I too would be worried about soaking him with all that soft going on....but the benefits of the vitamins would likely be good....so maybe if you do a middle of the road type thing...maybe put all the goodies in the warm water and soak him for like 10-15 mins and then get a warm towel (like a 10 minute in the dryer towel) and cuddle him into the towel until the towel cools totally then put him to bet under a night warm light????? This is just what my gut says to do, as I said, I have no direct hands on experience with soaking with vitamins nor baby food....

I think that if after a couple of weeks of the MVB and as much natural sun light as possible and the hand feeding, I bet he can come out of this like new 

By the way, it is so awesome that you have taken on the role of his Guardian Angel and friend....I so hope all works out splendid for you both.... please keep us posted


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## Torty Mom (Aug 26, 2011)

Awwwww your a sweetie. I warned her before I took him, that she couldn't be mad at me if he didn't make it. He is much worse than she described!  She has 3 others and she said they are doing great and growing, except the one she brought me. She keeps them on her patio. I didn't get all the details, she said they don't get any sunlight! Hmmm that's why we have a problem! It's gonna be hard to give him back if he makes it!


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## ascott (Aug 26, 2011)

I wonder if since this guy is worse than what she described if the other three are truly "fine"? I don't understand how folks think that they can get a CDT and not expect to make provisions for outside sun time????? I really just don't understand what is in someones head.....jeeez.

I hope that after all you two will go through and if you want to ...she lets you keep em.....


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## Laura (Aug 26, 2011)

torts like to sniff things before they eat.. so it might be that.. and lack of cordination.. and calcium. Has she had him under a coil bulb light?


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## Yvonne G (Aug 26, 2011)

Hi Mary Anne:

I would go with David's opinion too...the bird vitamins.

When you pile up the food (high) up against the wall, it helps a blind tortoise eat. That way the food can't move away from him.

So, vitamin soaks, calcium rich foods and lightly dust calcium powder over each meal. And the most important ingredient - sun.

Good luck with him. Take some pictures so if he does make it you have some before and after.


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## Torty Mom (Aug 27, 2011)

Laura said:


> torts like to sniff things before they eat.. so it might be that.. and lack of cordination.. and calcium. Has she had him under a coil bulb light?



Laura, they don't get any light at all.....real or artificial.  





dmmj said:


> It's eating right? I would use bird vitamin myself lots of calcium and sunshine.



Thanks David will do! I am just worried about actually soaking him, with him being so soft.





emysemys said:


> Hi Mary Anne:
> 
> I would go with David's opinion too...the bird vitamins.
> 
> ...



Thanks Yvonne, I'll get some pictures today. I'll have my son help me when I feed him and have him take a picture so you can see how he eats. It's very strange. The inside of his mouth is white not pink. I will try the food wall, if not I'll do like I did yesterday. 

I hope the little guy makes it.  At least he is eating! 




I can poke both his eyes and he doesn't flinch, only when I actually touch him, very softly of course!!! 

What do you guys thinks, do you think he is blind? Any other way to tell? 

Not eating this morning!


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## lynnedit (Aug 27, 2011)

Will defer to others about his sight, but I think you must soak him, even twice per day, with bird vits and orange baby food. Sun.
Especially if he is not eating. He is soft due to some deficiency, so brief water exposure should not make that worse, but may be his only hope of absorbing some nutrition when he does not eat...
Tell you what, you can tell that co worker that if he makes it, you keep him or she pays you for your efforts. Imagine admitting that they don't get sun! Sheesh!


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## Torty Mom (Aug 27, 2011)

*RE: Got a softie today  updated ~ pictures*

Here are some pictures of baby LR, which my son named him. LR = Low Rider.

I was able to get him to eat a very small bit of cactus and about 1 kibble of mazuri, I am missing some finger tips but all is good  Outside my hubby got him to eat a piece of neimesa and a petal of squash flower. 






This first picture shows how flat he is.




What a sweet little face













Any input is greatly appreciated!


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## yagyujubei (Aug 27, 2011)

As far as the biting the air, I have seen this many times with mine, but it was always the result of a small bit of food on their face (sometimes very small) that they see, but cannot reach. Could this have been the problem?

He looks better than I thought he would, as long as he is eating, getting calcium, and sunlight, He just may do just fine.


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## Torty Mom (Aug 27, 2011)

I wish that was it, mine do that too from time to time too, it's kinda cute when they do that!! 

He can't find the food  so what I did this morning was, I put the mazuri on my middle and ring fingers and then when he started trying to bite the air above his head, I held his head down with my right hand, so he could bite in front of him, worked great, got alot more food into him then last night. It's just a little hard to do.


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## dbsneed69 (Aug 27, 2011)

What a cute little tort... Thank you so much for taking care of that little one. That is one precious little face.


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## ascott (Aug 27, 2011)

Low Rider is adorable !!!!! He looks good, I believe you may have gotten your hands on him possibly in time to bring him round, he is eating and that is good...after seeing him I would suggest to proceed with the soaking and I think he will do great with it.... please keep us posted and more pics would be just fun


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## Torty Mom (Aug 27, 2011)

Thanks dbsneed and Angela! He is a little cutie with his bugged out little eyes. It's like the skin is bigger than his little beady eyes, hard to explain. He has been walking around good, now sleeping in his humid hide! I'll soak him and feed him again in 3 hours. 

His plastron is sooo soft like the middle of a piece of fresh bread


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## Torty Mom (Aug 27, 2011)

Just fed him again, and took a little video on my camera. Now, to see if I can post it on youtube. Gave him a little soak, I'm still all little freaked out about soaking.


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## ascott (Aug 27, 2011)

Hi Mary Anne, hey in your 10:37 am post when you describe what he did while trying to eat and what you did made me recall something that happen to me with one of my red ear sliders (totally different species I know, but) 

So, about oh....jeez 2 years ago about  I inherited two tiny sliders, they were a 2 for 5.00 dollar special from downtown Los Angeles Garment District... one of my co workers niece was there with her mom and the mom bought them for the daughter because they were tiny and "cute" (like they were 2.5 inches long at best each) well, after a couple of days the mom was like, no you can't keep em...so the turtles were given to my old boss, who really couldn't give a crap about them (don't get me started on this, idiot) so anyways, it turned out that they both were a bit sick, surprise! and so after consulting with a wonderful lady (not wonderful in the way a person is nice to another but wonderful in the fact that this old grumpy mean woman took the time to yell at me about how the one turtle was so "calcium deficient that I should be shot"....well, gladly taking the lashings to obtain this knowledge  I upped the exposure to light, increased the calcium in every way possible...well the little girl turtle would try to come up to eat and every time she did she would extend her neck and she would like bite into the air and she would not be able to focus no matter how hard she tried, I thought she was blind...well, after I amped her up with every opportunity with calcium (like about 3 weeks time) she stopped acting like a blind thing and was able to actually keep it together long enough to focus and get the food....so, wow I really walked you the long way around the block on this one huh...LOL 

My point being, calcium and sun exposure was what saved her and I was shown truly how important these things are...while these days she still has a little funny swim and an occasional flop of balance, she is HUGE and happy... and about two days ago, she actually acted like a slider... when I took her out of their big tank to put her out in their sunning pool on the porch she opened her mouth as big as she could and cocked her head and looked straight at me with one beautiful little eye like...."ha, look at me I can bite you if I wanted to, ahhhhh" I was so happy she made it...


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## Torty Mom (Aug 27, 2011)

Awww cute story Angela! Thanks for the hope!! Sounds just like low rider. I tried to let him eat on his own tonight, but I just couldn't watch it. I will try to figure out how to post the video. I'm so totally lame when it comes to tech stuff! 

He wouldn't eat any greens, my hubby even tried, he thinks the other torts like his food best! 

I am going to puree' some cactus tomorrow to put in with his mazuri, that is the only thing he is eating. I fed him 3 times today. He ate about 1 nugget of mazuri each time.  At least he is eating! 

He only got about 3 hours of natural sunlight it was 104 here again today, I didn't want to bake him! So he was under the MVB most of the day. I put him out in the morning before it's blazing hot. His shell coloring is alot lighter than my others. 

His shell is soooooo soft, I feel like his inside are just going to fall out. No one is allowed to hold him or pick him up. I transport him around in a small dish. 

I hope he makes it!! My co-worker and I will be having a long talk!! She is a sweetie, but I don't think she understands their needs or care. I have started a list!


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## ascott (Aug 27, 2011)

Puree sounds delish  His color will likely darken as his shell hardens....

I can give you some things to add to the list for your co worker 

Ca Desert Tortoise + sun + oh yeah sun ++ oh yeah sun....jeez
I hope she will take all that you have on your list to heart, especially since she still has three other little victims at her mercy.....and if she takes what you say to heart and not defensive then they may have a chance....

I hope a positive conversation will transpire for you and her and a better outcome for the others as well.....

hey, did I say that sun is good for a Ca Desert Tortoise...just incase I forgot.....LOL


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## Skyler Nell (Aug 27, 2011)

The sunlight and uv lighting should definitely help make the shell harder. As far as him being "flat", I don't think he looks flat but more that he lacks muscle mass and his shell is a bit big for him? If he is eating, that's very good! He's adorable  And I would definitely do the soaks if it were me, yvonnes baby food soaks saved my CDT! good luck!! and let me know if you have any questions


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## RV's mom (Aug 28, 2011)

what a sweet persona..... glad you have him ~ chances are much better for survival when one knows and cares and expends some energy to help the babies, not just have them as "little pretties"

good luck

teri


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## Laura (Aug 28, 2011)

vitamin A deficiancy for his blindness? i dont know if that gets better.. 
i really hope you can get him turned around and its not too late.. 
obviously he wont be hibernating this year... be ready for that.. 
you said she had two? where is the other one? 
how did she get this one?


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## Torty Mom (Aug 28, 2011)

Skyler Nell said:


> The sunlight and uv lighting should definitely help make the shell harder. As far as him being "flat", I don't think he looks flat but more that he lacks muscle mass and his shell is a bit big for him? If he is eating, that's very good! He's adorable  And I would definitely do the soaks if it were me, yvonnes baby food soaks saved my CDT! good luck!! and let me know if you have any questions


Thanks Syler Nell, I appreciate it! Yes, his shell looks a bit big and I thinks it's heavy for him. He is pretty flat and his rear slopes just a bit. But I am comparing him to my others. It was the first thing my 11 year old son noticed. I may be bugging you for help!!  




sharkstar said:


> what a sweet persona..... glad you have him ~ chances are much better for survival when one knows and cares and expends some energy to help the babies, not just have them as "little pretties"
> 
> good luck
> 
> teri


Thanks Teri! I am glad he is here too, I hope I can part with him when he makes it! I am growing quite attached to his little bug eyed self!! I must have walked 6 miles checking on him! LOL!!! 





ascott said:


> Puree sounds delish  His color will likely darken as his shell hardens....
> 
> I can give you some things to add to the list for your co worker
> 
> ...


My plan is to take him back to her house so I can see where she keeps him. She is a very sweet lady, I don't think she will mind my list. I will also show her pictures of my set up which is very easy to do. She said the 3 others are growing big and doing good. I gave her a few things on Friday. She even offered me money, which I declined. This is a labor of love.  Wish me luck, day two!!! 




Laura said:


> vitamin A deficiancy for his blindness? i dont know if that gets better..
> i really hope you can get him turned around and its not too late..
> obviously he wont be hibernating this year... be ready for that..
> you said she had two? where is the other one?
> how did she get this one?


Thanks Laura, I'm wondering if his eyes look like that because he was kept in a dark environment? What do you think? 
She has 3 others. I am not sure where she lives, but I live on the edge of town, she said she found them in her yard. She also found a RES in her pool last month. We have farmers bringing hatchlings into the club all the time. That's how I got my other 3.


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## Torty Mom (Aug 28, 2011)

not eating today at all, I have tried 3 times since his soak. He has not taken a drink in the 3 times I have soaked him. I added pureed cactus, so I will try again in a little while with just plain mazuri again. Maybe he doesn't like cactus!  <sigh> he is back outside before it gets blazing hot again.


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## ascott (Aug 28, 2011)

Mary Anne, I have one of my guys that it took FOREVER for him to acquire the taste for cactus....I was like, "really dude, hello-you are a CDT...eat it" and he was like "no" then as time passed he will munch some but still not the biggest fan of it....

Have you tried some flowers? bright colored stuff? crap, wait, he may not be turned on by that as their site is what helps to lure them to the colors....I would try it anyways...maybe wait till he does the air head thing then give a slip in or two of some yummy stuff? 

You are doing good....go girl go!!!!! 



lol....I meant "sight" not "site"....


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## Torty Mom (Aug 28, 2011)

He has sow thistle, red hibiscus, grass, mulberry, grape leaf all cut up teeny tiny on his little dish, still nothing. I am going to try the plain mazuri in a little while. Darn this little dude! I am working on posting the video. I am such a dork.......


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## ascott (Aug 28, 2011)

I too belong to the Klan off the Dorks...... 

LOL...see the proof, I again can not spell....LOL 

"of" not "off"....hahahahahahaha


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## wrmitchell22 (Aug 28, 2011)

He is adorable, definatley a little flat, poor thing! So happy he has you to give him what he needs. Keep us updated


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## Torty Mom (Aug 28, 2011)

Ok here goes, I think I did it...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9dx9KgFHTgM

Let me know what you guys think. 


Attempt #5 was successful with 3/4 of a mazuri nugget consumed!!! 

Still doing the air eating, I still have to hold his head down to get him to find the food.  Is it possible that he is just uncoordinated?


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## ascott (Aug 28, 2011)

Okay so I watched the video like 10 times.....what first strikes me is that he seems as though he has focus to aim at the food, maybe not by sight but he knows where it is at....then he goes to grab it and it seems like to me he does not have the muscle control to keep his head where it needs to be to complete his attempt??? does that make sense? Also, I believe you said that if you put your finger above his head and aid his head from heading north he can complete his bite..... 

May I make a suggestion? Maybe since he is so young, make sure that he always has a successful feeding.....like boost his drive and expectations....make him reach for the food like he does in the video and be at the ready to make sure he gets a chomp and mouth full....I think that he will be fine with this type of system....I am tending to think that once you get him through this oh so critical stage he will absolutely adjust and will figure a way to eat what you place in front of him...also, you will be able to see as time goes on if his eyesight is indeed the issue or if he just is still so weak honey that he just really really needs a nurturing soul like you to will him on..... the little ones are so new that while I know a wild animal has a drive to survive but if they are so young and so fragile they may not realize that when they slow down it is a bad thing....they kinda lose their will ....this is where yours will come into play  

Keep trying.....put positive out there and have faith...


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## Torty Mom (Aug 28, 2011)

Yes, Angela that exactly right. I have to gently hold his head down or it goes straight up in the air. It's crazy. When he opens his mouth I put my finger coated mazuri into his mouth with my left hand while the right hand is keeping his head level with the food. 

Now another worry, no poopies  he has eaten 4 mazuri nuggets in 2 days and nothing. Hopefully the soaks will help that too. 

Thanks for your advice, I will try it!!!


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## ascott (Aug 28, 2011)

Well, I would not yet freak about the no poo, because if this is his way of attempting to eat and failing, I bet he has not eaten for some time before you starting feeding him....so let him get all charged up and I bet he will produce a little poo....and with the soaking I bet he will.....


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## Torty Mom (Aug 28, 2011)

You know your life is crazy when you are all excited for poo! I feel Lindsey's pain, I want poo too!!!


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## dmmj (Aug 28, 2011)

I watched the video, and it looks like he does not have any strength to me.


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## Skyler Nell (Aug 28, 2011)

Wouldn't worry about the flatness right now, I'm thinking that's just the shape of his shell. My larger CDT was much flatter then my younger one is at that age. 
If the mazuri is the only thing he will eat right now i would just keep giving him that, offering other things doesn't hurt, but at least he's eating something! yay  sounds like you're doing everything right. the sun and some added calcium should help his shell harden up. is he moving around at all??


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## l0velesly (Aug 28, 2011)

Aww. It makes me feel sad to see him chomp at the air


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## Torty Mom (Aug 28, 2011)

Yes he is moving around not a whole lot, but a little! Did you see the video of him eating? Very strange. Thanks for your input, I appreciate it! 





lushcious said:


> Aww. It makes me feel sad to see him chomp at the air


It's very sad!! Poor guy, I have been helping him eat. 




dmmj said:


> I watched the video, and it looks like he does not have any strength to me.



I agree David, that's why I have been trying to make all his chomps worth while. So it's not wasted effort on his part.

Do you think he can't see the food?


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## lynnedit (Aug 28, 2011)

To me, it is hard to tell. He is either sniffing or looking at the food, so he knows where it is. But his bites are so far off makes one think it could be more neurologic: coordination. Of course, blindness could be neurologic too. Either way,some of it is likely to be nutritional, so you are correcting any part of that you can.
I am so glad you are helping him!!!


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## dmmj (Aug 28, 2011)

Do you let him graze? several people I know think that grazing builds up neck muscles from the tearing.


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## Torty Mom (Aug 28, 2011)

David he was on grass all morning long, but he didn't do any chomping. It may have been his first time on grass, I will ask my co worker tomorrow if any of hers graze or have access to grass, I doubt it  

He ate another calcium laden mazuri nugget and is resting under the mvb. He was in his humid hide a little while ago. 

I appreciate everyone's help!!


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## Torty Mom (Aug 29, 2011)

Low Rider is not eating today. I have tried 3 times. I am at a loss on what to do. Baby food soak here he comes  

He has been outside all day, he is inside under the mvb, if he doesn't eat I can't get the calcium in him and then we are going no where........so the sun and the mvb are useless........


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## Torty Mom (Aug 29, 2011)

FINALLY he ate at 8 pm tonight. I tried the red tort sticks, he liked them and lucky for me they were COATED in calcium!! 

Plus.........dun dun dunnnnnnnnnn we have a poopie!!!! It's the size of a pea and hard as a rock, but it's still poo and he did it!!!


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## lynnedit (Aug 29, 2011)

Hallelujah on both ends!


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## Torty Mom (Aug 29, 2011)

Yes, for sure and he is actually cruising around his tub tonight!! Earlier today, I thought for sure he was a goner! I was soooooo sad!!! 

Thanks for your comment! I appreciate it!!


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## Skyler Nell (Aug 29, 2011)

Woo!  I'm rooting for the little guy!!


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## Torty Mom (Aug 29, 2011)

Thanks Skyler!!!


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## ascott (Aug 29, 2011)

Yay!!!!! Hey remember the sun does so many positive things besides helping with the calcium.....so sun sun sun time.....it will kick in his " hey, I'm a desert tortoise, I'm the fricken state reptile...I am cute, I can do this" !!!!! You go with your cute self


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## Torty Mom (Aug 29, 2011)

Yes, I totally agree with you Angela. I've been keeping him out in the mornings, he is so soft, I don't want him baking in the afternoon sun. Not sure what I am going to do when my hubby leaves in a few days! I am going to be up a tortie creek without a paddle!!!


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## ascott (Aug 29, 2011)

You know what? I have a really strong feeling, you will find a way


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## Torty Mom (Aug 29, 2011)

Wanna come over and tortie sit? My tortie sitter is still in the hospital


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## ascott (Aug 29, 2011)

Oh dear, I so wished we lived close enough for that to be a reality, as I would love to  (in a heartbeat)


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## Torty Mom (Aug 30, 2011)

Awwww thanks!!!! I am going to a quilting certification class the 20th -22nd. So with my husband being gone and Lisa (nascarmw) STILL in the hospital my other friend Roanna is going to have tort duty. She is seriously freaked out. Sadly, Lou will have to be corraled for those days because she has a pool. He is going to be pissed. I don't know what else to do. No way in heck would I trust my 18 years old!!!!


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## Torty Mom (Aug 30, 2011)

Low Rider likes red tort sticks!!! I was able to get him to eat almost a whole one, COVERED in miner-all. Now, he is back outside in the shade. I hope those uva/uvb rays are working their magic!!!


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## ascott (Aug 30, 2011)

Awesome on the chowing of the red mazuri . Is your quilting class out of town? I can pm you my phone number incase your friend freaks out and can't reach you?


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## lynnedit (Aug 30, 2011)

I can feel his shell hardening as we write...


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## Torty Mom (Aug 30, 2011)

ascott said:


> Awesome on the chowing of the red mazuri . Is your quilting class out of town? I can pm you my phone number in case your friend freaks out and can't reach you?


Awesome Angela, what a great idea, I really appreciate it. I will be in San Diego. That will make my friend Roanna very happy! 



lynnedit said:


> I can feel his shell hardening as we write...


Awww, thanks sooooo much those are the best words ever!


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## Edna (Aug 30, 2011)

Torty Mom said:


> Still doing the air eating, I still have to hold his head down to get him to find the food.  Is it possible that he is just uncoordinated?



I had a pup once that I was sure was blind because he had a hard time aiming at the food and was always running into things. The vet diagnosed a cerebellum problem and said that what I was seeing was an "intention tremor". When he really wanted to do something, like eat, his tremor would increase making him miss the dish. Maybe it's something like that....


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## lynnedit (Aug 30, 2011)

It might be his sight, but I must say, it really looks like a lack of coordination to me. As if he means to bite the food, but his head and neck won't go the right way.


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## Torty Mom (Aug 31, 2011)

AHHHHHHHHHHH CRAP CRAP CRAP Low rider has foam coming from some place his mouth or nose and his plastron in concave now!!!!!!!!! 

I AM FREAKING................... He did so good today, wondering around and even eating grass!!! My hub even called me at work because HE was so excited! 

My yard is totally tortie safe has been for a long time, so I know he didn't eat anything, could he just be over heated? He has plenty of shade and water ............ I am soaking him now............... HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

Yvonne!!!!!!! Maggie!!!!!!!! Somebody!!!!!!!! AHHHHHHH!!!!!

Yvonne came to the rescue, guessing he over heated. Seems to be doing better now. Plastron is still concave. Not looking so good, I am sad......... I just got 42 more gray hairs........


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## ascott (Aug 31, 2011)

Sounds like overheating to me.........if he spiked and then came back getting better.....take a breath dear......just keep him hydrated to try to counter the spike


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## lynnedit (Aug 31, 2011)

Glad you got an answer, soaked him and he is better except for the concaving.
Hang onto the good stuff: he was very active today...


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## dmarcus (Aug 31, 2011)

Poor little guy, I hope he pulls through this...


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## Torty Mom (Aug 31, 2011)

Thanks guys, we had a freak fest for about 45 minutes! Both Low Rider and I are doing better.  Mostly me! LOL!! 

I am trying to feed him now, hope that goes well, that was some scary crap a little while ago. 

It's much cooler today 93 when it happened so I have no idea why, he was totally kicking in the shade. This is one of the reasons why I check my torties every 5 minutes! UGH! I need a cocktail!!! 

Angela, I almost called you!!!!


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## lynnedit (Aug 31, 2011)

That isn't as hot. He may just not be very good at self regulating yet.


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## Torty Mom (Aug 31, 2011)

lynnedit said:


> That isn't as hot. He may just not be very good at self regulating yet.



That's what surprised me! We are being SOOOOOO careful, I totally understand his fragile state. Yvonne mentioned poison or overheating, and poison is completely out of the question! 

It's hotter under his MVB than outside!! Crazy! 

I am somewhat prepared that he may not make it, but we are not giving up on him just yet!


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## ascott (Sep 1, 2011)

heeeeyyyyyy....no giving up, please  How is Low Rider doing today?


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## Ashliewood (Sep 1, 2011)

I was just wondering how you guys are today?


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## ascott (Sep 2, 2011)

?


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## Torty Mom (Sep 2, 2011)

Sorry guys for not updating! It means alot to me that your guys asked about him. 

Low Rider is doing GREAT!!!!! YAY!!!! His plastron is flat again, he still does his air biting. The sides of his plastron have gotten harder, the middle part is still like jello and dark in color. Dude is a little fighter!!! May have to rename him Rocky Balboa!! He has been eating about 1 mazuri nugget each day. I have not seen him drink, but my hub says he has. 

Thanks for all the well wishes, you guys are the bestest!!!


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## lynnedit (Sep 2, 2011)

Yay for Low Rider! You go!


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## ascott (Sep 2, 2011)

I can sigh in relief....I am so pleased to hear the update....


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## dmmj (Sep 3, 2011)

remember the shell is gonna take time to see improvements.


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## Torty Mom (Sep 5, 2011)

Update on Low Rider: He is doing great eating an entire mazuri nugget and today he had 1 bite of rose petal and some garden lettuce I grow!! Tons more active, but no more poo....unless I have missed it but I am always checking for it.


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## lynnedit (Sep 5, 2011)

As long as he is eating and hydrated, it has to come sometime. Come on little guy!


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## Momof4 (Sep 5, 2011)

So glad he's doing better! Poor little guy has been through a lot. I hope you get to keep him after all this TLC.


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## Robert (Sep 5, 2011)

Just read through this thread for the first time. Wow! Seems like you are doing a great job. Little guy seems like a fighter. Good luck!


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## Torty Mom (Sep 5, 2011)

Thanks guys!! Yep the little dude is a fighter, I hope when he makes it thru this that there is not any long terms effects. 

Still does the air biting. I don't think he is blind. Coordination or a nervous system problem, but heck, I have no idea what I talking about!


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## LaTortue (Sep 6, 2011)

What a beautiful tortoise! I hope he pulls through and does okay.


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## coldskyline (Sep 13, 2011)

Just want to say I'm still thinking of you guys! Any new updates?


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## Torty Mom (Sep 14, 2011)

Yes!!! He is doing really, really well!!! Who knows what the long terms effects will be but you will never guess what popped up this weekend....... drum roll please.......... HIS VERY FIRST GROWTH LINE!!!! YAH BABY!!! He has a small black growth line around all of his scutes, it's not much, but it's there!!! 

He still eats funky, so I am still hand feeding.  I am a happy camper!! His owner asked me if I was getting attached, I told her of course!!! I maybe keeping him hehehehehehehee....... She is very interested in what she can change to make things better, she told me to write everything down, and she means everything!! Yayyyyy, don't have to have a "talk"


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## lynnedit (Sep 14, 2011)

Whoo Hooo, he is sure a fighter!
Yes, definitely a teaching moment.


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## ascott (Sep 14, 2011)

Yay Low Rider!!!!! Also, Miss Mary Anne.....goooooood job


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## ascott (Oct 7, 2011)

Hey Mary Anne 

How is Low Rider doing these days????


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## Torty Mom (Oct 7, 2011)

Low Rider is awesome!!! Thanks so much for asking!!! His shell is no longer flat as it was and he has a nice dark GROWTH line!! Woot, woot!!! There is still one small section that still has alot of give, but the outer edge is hard as a button! I will post pictures tomorrow, I have been working crazy hours.


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## lynnedit (Oct 7, 2011)

Great news. I hope you get to keep him and that the original owner has made some changes for her other torts....


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## Torty Mom (Oct 7, 2011)

lynnedit said:


> Great news. I hope you get to keep him and that the original owner has made some changes for her other torts....



I agree too, we were talking yesterday and I told her I wanted to see the others!!


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## terryo (Oct 7, 2011)

Mary Anne, I juist read this thread....wow! You HAVE to keep him now after you did such a wonderful job with him.


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## ascott (Oct 7, 2011)

I agree with TerryO.... keep him keep him kidnap I mean keep him  LOL


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## Torty Mom (Oct 7, 2011)

Thanks Terryo and lynnedit!! 

I will post a picture tomorrow. He hangs out with Penny, they are similiar in size. Tucker and Squirt are HUGE BULLDOZERS, and baby Marley is quickly catching up to them. Penny is still little. I think he is much happier sleeping and hanging out with the others! The new growth lines are showing that he has a very slight ridge from the scutes, to the new growth lines. I wonder what her others look like, and if there is any pyramiding on them. Low Rider just never grew at all, maybe because he can't eat normally  I hand feed him everyday. He looks like a grumpy old man! Cute nonetheless!! 



ascott said:


> I agree with TerryO.... keep him keep him kidnap I mean keep him  LOL



So what is the private message, fellow pants peeing, hunk stealing friend up to tonight?


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## ascott (Oct 7, 2011)

He is a special, cute tenacious dude....Mary Anne I have the two redfoots that I adopted and the little girl (?) one still is an air biter as well....but she has spirit for sure 

uh, hunk stealing friend, pm? "depends" on what you are referring tooooo ??? hmmmmmm  LOL


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## Stephanie (Oct 7, 2011)

Just finished reading this through...and WOW! You are a hero for this little dude. 
I really hope you end up keeping him; I think it would be foolish for your co-worker to make any other decision. Seriously- you saved him!


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## Torty Mom (Oct 7, 2011)

Why do you think she does that? It's crazy, if food is in front of him he just can't seem to bite it. I don't think he is blind, he gets around too well. But I watch everyday and I can't figure it out. I do let him practice a little everyday, maybe he will land something and actually bite it!! I even make the pile quite tall, so he has a chance!! LOL!! Dude bite straight in front of you, nope he bites to the right and up high, crazy! 

I read the rest of the posts the next morning and I am really lucky I was done with my coffee, you guys had me totally cracking up. Figures, I dream about PJ's and not hunky men or even torties, poor Mary Anne she needs to get out more. Maybe it's because I am surrounded by 5 year olds day in a day out, PJ's are exciting!! Tortie PJ's would be cool!!! LOL!!! Now everyone thinks we have a bladder control problem! **SIGH** Dean's depend picture just about did me in, I was laughing so hard my stomach hurt!!! But, really that was a ton of fun and I have not laughed that much in a long time!! It was a good time for sure!! We need to do that more often!!!


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## ascott (Oct 7, 2011)

hahaha...I did not see the Depends pic until the next morning...LMAO soooooo hard...loved it !!!!! 

My little RF bites up and to the right LOL....I think that it was a calcium deficiency from the start...if the body has to use up calcium from the bones because it is not getting a ready supply of it then the body suffers during the growing time ....all organs can be affected along with mobility and control....soooo, I am hoping Low Rider as well as my little gal will get a system going in time to counter that...but if not....I don't mind dining with a tort


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## Torty Mom (Oct 7, 2011)

Do you think it will get better or do you think they will stay that way? I don't see her hand feeding him everyday for the rest of his life!


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## ascott (Oct 7, 2011)

Well, hard to say for certain, you know? 

I have my old man Humphry and when I first started my relationship with him he was air biting (and he was a male adult) my first task with him was to get him out of danger due to he was impacted (i had never dealt with an impaction before) with loads of sand

...so when that was done he was feeling a bit better then I would keep him in my office where I use to work (had a door that led out to the patio, back then was my old bosses tortoise I could not bring him home) and would leave the heater on nonstop...boy my office was hot LOL ... he began eating by me dropping food into his mouth every time he did the air bite thing...eventually he became stronger physically as well as I think he regained his drive for survival which became evident as time went on...when ever I came to work he would bring himself out from under my desk, **** his head sideways, so his "good" eye was staring at me...loved that...and he would walk to the door to the patio and bump it with his gular....so i would open the door for a little while on cold days and open all day on the sunny days....now he can eat all on his own....he takes several strikes to get some stuff but he will keep on till the whole pile or bush is eaten up....

so yeah...I think that they "can" overcome lots...he is essentially blind in his left eye and his good eye (right one) gets him by just fine and even that eye is not 100%...he is very polite, forgiving, patient and most of all tenacious...he loves to have his shell rubbed...and he likes when I stick my finger between his head and leg and rub that soft skin spot...and he follows around when I am in or around his yard....I am a woman of faith, and I have faith that your little one and mine will work out just fine.... IMHO


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## Torty Mom (Oct 7, 2011)

Angela, I hope so!!!! Old Man Humphry reminds me so much of Lou!!! How old is the RF that you have? I think Low Rider should be 1 soon. Penny turned 1 last week, and the others turn 1 in November. Maybe they will out grow it.  

I hate to admit this, but I am going to bed. I am exhausted. Rough 2 days, peed pants, poopie pants, bloody nose, ugh! 

I have to teach a quilting class at 10 am tomorrow, should be fun!!!


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## ascott (Oct 7, 2011)

I do not know how old the RFs are...the smaller one is about 4 to 5 inches and the bigger one is like 5-6 inches, rough estimate on both 


and oh Mary Anne, I had not realized you picked up the other habits as well...wow, bloody noses are rough...are you okay? 


(baaaahaaaaa haaaaaa, LMAO jk)


nighty night


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## Torty Mom (Oct 7, 2011)

***eyebrow crossed**** NOT meeeeeeeeeeeee my pee is fine, my poo is fine and so is my nose!! My girls sag but hey can't win them all!!!! 

Blahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaaaaaaaaaa, crap wait I may just pee my pants after all!!! Ahhhhhhh


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## ascott (Oct 7, 2011)

sorry, could not stop myself *cheeks hurting from laughing* You rock Mary Anne


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## Torty Mom (Oct 8, 2011)

I had to read it twice, then I was like hey........  We are so going to have to get together one of these days, maybe over winter break!!! I am off to quilting class and to see Lisa after class. Then I'll post a picture of the little dude!!!


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## blafiriravt (Oct 8, 2011)

hahahahahahahah  Love this thread. You guys and gals rock


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## Torty Mom (Oct 8, 2011)

Thanks Brandon!!!!  We have been having a little bit of fun these last few days!!!! LOL!!


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