# Tortoise bit off the head of cage mate.



## Kyleb43

Hello all, I’m new to this forum because I came home today to find that my adult female tortoise had bit the head off of her female cage mate. I keep all 3 of my tortoises in the same cage as a breeding group, (M/F/F). I only occasionally saw fighting before this but nothing I believe to be serious. Here are some pictures.






I guess my question for the community is, have you ever seen something like this happen to any of your torts?


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## Grandpa Turtle 144




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## dmmj

I have seen very viscous bites & wounds from fighting males & males trying 2 breed but never decapitation. Sorry 2 hear about the death of your tortoise.


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## dmmj

Were these tortoises outside? could it have possibly been a predator?


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## Kyleb43

No, I keep them inside. The three of them have been together with no problems for over a year now.


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## dmmj

OK, except for breeding purposes my males are in separate enclosures


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## G-stars

Kyleb43 said:


> No, I keep them inside. The three of them have been together with no problems for over a year now.



Let me start of by saying that I’m sorry your tortoise died. What size of an enclosure were those 3 tortoises sharing?

You stated in your original post that there had been occasional fighting. So there had been problems and obvious signs to remove them from each other for over a year. This could have and should have been prevented. If I was you I would learn from this experience and remove the pair from each other before you are left with only one tortoise.


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## Jodie

That poor tortoise! I am sorry for your loss. Please separate the remaining two. I do thank you for posting this, and hope someone else will learn from this mistake.


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## Yvonne G

I've seen female russians with their eyelids bitten off by another russian, or leg scales, etc., but I've never seen this kind of injury. I wouldn't have thought a tortoise could inflict this injury. Are you absolutely sure it couldn't have happened some other way?

I'm so very sorry this happened. This is an awful thing to come home to.


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## Ben02

I’m so sorry

I never knew a tortoise could cause that much damage, it kind of looks like she was squashed by something.


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## vladimir

I'm so very sorry for your loss


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## Tom

Those don't look like tortoise inflicted wounds to me. Looks like something a cat or dog would do. I've never seen damage like that inflicted by another tortoise.


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## dmmj

Tom said:


> Those don't look like tortoise inflicted wounds to me. Looks like something a cat or dog would do. I've never seen damage like that inflicted by another tortoise.


 that's what I was thinking but they were indoors


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## Kyleb43

Well I know it was the other female because when I came home she had blood on her face...


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## Ben02

Kyleb43 said:


> Well I know it was the other female because when I came home she had blood on her face...


Ok, does the other female have any wounds? 

I’m sorry to ask this from you but is it possible you could take some closer pictures of the passed tortoises head and neck? I 100% completely understand if you are not comfortable with that. Again I am very sorry this happened


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## mark1

i'd guess the tortoise died with it's head out and the others ate what they could , the soft parts …..


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## Toddrickfl1

They had a similar incident at the Petco by my house a few years ago. They had two Redfoots in a tank and they came in one morning and one had bitten the head off of the other.


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## dmmj

Toddrickfl1 said:


> They had a similar incident at the Petco by my house a few years ago. They had two Redfoots in a tank and they came in one morning and one had bitten the head off of the other.


 in that case the tortoise may have died and the other one may have scavenged (?) it. They eat dead things in the wild


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## Toddrickfl1

dmmj said:


> in that case the tortoise may have died and the other one may have scavenged (?) it. They eat dead things in the wild


That's what I told them probably was the case, and is probably the case with the OPs Russian.


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## dmmj

Toddrickfl1 said:


> That's what I told them probably was the case, and is probably the case with the OPs Russian.


Either is possible in both cases impossible to tell one way or the other


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## Yvonne G

mark1 said:


> i'd guess the tortoise died with it's head out and the others ate what they could , the soft parts …..


I'm thinking this must be the case too. They are opportunistic and they do occasionally eat meat in the wild.


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## vladimir

Incredibly sad however it happened


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## G-stars

I agree with the above that is probably what happened, the tortoise died and then was nibbled on. However, the bullying probably stressed the tortoises out and had a contributing factor to its death in the first place. So bullying still killed both of those tortoises.


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## stephpw

Thanks for the advice, folks.


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## cheri7

I’m so sorry this happened to that poor baby.... yes do keep the other two apart...


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## TammyJ

This is quite horrible and I am sorry it happened. Keep them separated and secure the enclosures from predators like dogs, rats, hawks, raccoons etc.


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## Millerlite

Is it possible the turtle died and the other turtle started biting at it? Sorry for your loss.


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## Professor Brenda

This is so sad. I am so sorry for your experience as much as for your loss. How awful. 

I do have to agree with everyone else that I hope at least this is a learning experience for all that tortoises should not be housed together. They are solitary animals.


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## lizznet15

Kyleb43 said:


> Hello all, I’m new to this forum because I came home today to find that my adult female tortoise had bit the head off of her female cage mate. I keep all 3 of my tortoises in the same cage as a breeding group, (M/F/F). I only occasionally saw fighting before this but nothing I believe to be serious. Here are some pictures.
> 
> View attachment 272131
> 
> View attachment 272132
> 
> 
> I guess my question for the community is, have you ever seen something like this happen to any of your torts?


Oh my gosh I am so sorry this happened. This is a good place to find good answers.


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## Randdawgg

Grandpa Turtle 144 said:


> View attachment 272135


Very sad.I was thinking of getting a friend for my tort but I think I will play it safe.I have heard that males can be pretty aggressive towards each other.


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## dmmj

Randdawgg said:


> Very sad.I was thinking of getting a friend for my tort but I think I will play it safe.I have heard that males can be pretty aggressive towards each other.


 each other, females, shoes, rocks, walls, pretty much anything


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## ZEROPILOT

Randdawgg said:


> Very sad.I was thinking of getting a friend for my tort but I think I will play it safe.I have heard that males can be pretty aggressive towards each other.


Any tortoise can be aggressive to any tortoise.
Especially in an enclosure that is small.
Groups only work in very large areas. And even then, they don't always work.


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## puffinboots

I think Mark1 is right . The tortoise died & the others decided on a spot of cannibalism. I have never seen one of my tortoises bite one another. Even as they eat together , I watch to see the babies eating with the adults , a baby’s head almost touching the adults mouths, but they have never come to harm.


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## puffinboots

I wonder if keeping tortoises from the same family can make them less aggressive. 
The smell of an alien might spur them to fight.


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## el_mechacontext

Thank you for those of you who posted info about bullying signs. I am considering getting another Russian and will definitely be using a separate enclosure if I do.


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## TammyJ

I have to admit this thread (the photos) gave me nightmares. But it's probably a good lesson as to what may happen. I just never saw such an extreme example, if it was really a fight and decapitation, which I also doubt. I think it died first and its head was the easiest thing to get at.


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## wellington

Tom said:


> Those don't look like tortoise inflicted wounds to me. Looks like something a cat or dog would do. I've never seen damage like that inflicted by another tortoise.


That's what I was wondering too. A dog or likely a cat being no other chew Mark's like a dog would do more so then a cat


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## wellington

Randdawgg said:


> Very sad.I was thinking of getting a friend for my tort but I think I will play it safe.I have heard that males can be pretty aggressive towards each other.


Tortoises dont want or need friends. Best to keep single or in a group of one Male to several females and even then they may all need to be housed alone.


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## wellington

So very sorry this happened.


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## KSeaman

Very sad indeed. 


puffinboots said:


> I wonder if keeping tortoises from the same family can make them less aggressive.
> The smell of an alien might spur them to fight.



I think we can all use this as a learning opportunity.
Just like in dog training, my go to saying is....they never do until they do.

So sorry for your lost. 

In raising Betta fish, you can keep babies from the same hatch usually safely until they reach a certain age then they almost always (98%) of the time they will start fighting and need to be separated.


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## Russiantortylady

So sorry for your loss, i just proves that I guess one of them snapped............


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## Lyn W

So sorry to hear this - it is very upsetting.
Please separate the others asap or you'll lose another.


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## Beasty_Artemis

Wow!
I was the most surprised of all when I read the post about red foots.....
But scavenging seems more likely. But I really wouldn't know anything to contribute. I've only ever had Artemis. Now I'm never letting her/ he have herd mates.
Has anyone ever witness two red foots torts face off in such an extreme fight? I thought that they were tolerant of other red foots compared to other species. Well I never want to see something like that happen! I hope it was just scavenging!


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## gilamonsterxxl

Let me start by saying sorry for your loss. 

I have been keeping reptiles of many sorts for decades. The one rule I can say is “if it can happen it will eventually happen”. 

I would suggest that if you see any aggression, it will most likely get worse before it gets better. It’s not worth the chance to hope for the best.


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## Koopa And Roxie

Hi I'm new to this website and I've never seen anything like this before. My male Moroccan Greek Tortoise, Koopa will often beat up (ram or bite) my other tort, a female Sulcata, Roxie. But I didn't know it could be this lethal. Were they outside when this happened? I so it could have been a cat or something. Are they all the same species? If not depending on their size and bit force it could be possible one of her tank mates did this. 

Sorry about your loss.


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## TechnoCheese

Koopa And Roxie said:


> Hi I'm new to this website and I've never seen anything like this before. My male Moroccan Greek Tortoise, Koopa will often beat up (ram or bite) my other tort, a female Sulcata, Roxie. But I didn't know it could be this lethal. Were they outside when this happened? I so it could have been a cat or something. Are they all the same species? If not depending on their size and bit force it could be possible one of her tank mates did this.
> 
> Sorry about your loss.



Please be sure that you’re tortoises do not have access to each other. Tortoises, especially the species you listed, are solitary creatures that should never be kept in pairs. In addition, it is extremely dangerous for species to be mixed because of their different care and pathogens, which can be fatal to either tortoise.

If they are being housed together, definitely get them separated. They should never be in a position where they’re able to attack each other, or come in contact in general.


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## Koopa And Roxie

TechnoCheese said:


> Please be sure that you’re tortoises do not have access to each other. Tortoises, especially the species you listed, are solitary creatures that should never be kept in pairs. In addition, it is extremely dangerous for species to be mixed because of their different care and pathogens, which can be fatal to either tortoise.
> 
> If they are being housed together, definitely get them separated. They should never be in a position where they’re able to attack each other, or come in contact in general.




Yeah, I got Koopa in 2015, and Roxie in 2017, thought Koopa was lonely. But he wasn't. He was just grumpy. We've got two different cages for them though.


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## Professor Brenda

I couldn't agree more with Technocheese. Keep them separate. They both should have outdoor enclosures if possible. That sulcata will need a big outdoor space, not a cage within just a few years of hatching.


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## Yvonne G

mark1 said:


> i'd guess the tortoise died with it's head out and the others ate what they could , the soft parts …..


I tend to agree with this assessment.


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## Koopa And Roxie

Yeah, both torts have an indoor cage and an outdoor enclosure. But I always need to keep an eye on the temp sometimes they overheat when their pool is filled.


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## Stoneman

I have a few questions, I am sorry to open old wounds, but I just want to rule some things out. 

Did you have pets or younger children that had potential access to the enclosure? I noticed that this was speculated throughout the post but never really answered. 

How much of a size difference was there between the decapitated and the ones who are remaining? 

Thanks for your time, sorry about your loss. You want to keep them in trios or solitary. I think you can revisit putting them together with a new one as a trio once you can determine what the problem was. 

Good luck


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## No1much

I'm late to this post but I feel like this might be useful to anyone thinking of keeping 2 together in future (even a male with females) 

I purchased my 2 Russians from the same pet shop the same day and they were kept in the same cage with one other. I'm moving in 3 weeks and the pet shop owner, who seemed a really knowledgeable guy, said that as they've always been together that they're be fine together for another few months. At first they were ok. Then small things happened like one laying on the food bowl, always watching each other, climbing on each other stuff like that. I just thought they were "friends" I've never had torts and was naive. Then one day the female (who's a good inch smaller than the male) came up and layed her head on the front of his shell. I watched and thought how cute it was and maybe I should take a pic. Next thing I know she stands up tall stretches out her head and gets right in the front of his shell and bites down HARD on the skin between his head and shoulder right inside the shell. He couldn't retract or anything as she chomped. I picked them up and could barely separate them. I'm convinced she was trying to kill him as she would not release even when I picked them both up. It was horrible I'm so glad I was there. I separated them immediately and never let them even see each other. I'm lucky she didn't do any damage as they're only a year old. If she'd been bigger or I wasn't there it'd probably be a similar story. The pet shop owner said he'd never seen or heard anything like it and they were fine together with the other female.


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## Professor Brenda

No1much said:


> I'm late to this post but I feel like this might be useful to anyone thinking of keeping 2 together in future (even a male with females)
> 
> I purchased my 2 Russians from the same pet shop the same day and they were kept in the same cage with one other. I'm moving in 3 weeks and the pet shop owner, who seemed a really knowledgeable guy, said that as they've always been together that they're be fine together for another few months. At first they were ok. Then small things happened like one laying on the food bowl, always watching each other, climbing on each other stuff like that. I just thought they were "friends" I've never had torts and was naive. Then one day the female (who's a good inch smaller than the male) came up and layed her head on the front of his shell. I watched and thought how cute it was and maybe I should take a pic. Next thing I know she stands up tall stretches out her head and gets right in the front of his shell and bites down HARD on the skin between his head and shoulder right inside the shell. He couldn't retract or anything as she chomped. I picked them up and could barely separate them. I'm convinced she was trying to kill him as she would not release even when I picked them both up. It was horrible I'm so glad I was there. I separated them immediately and never let them even see each other. I'm lucky she didn't do any damage as they're only a year old. If she'd been bigger or I wasn't there it'd probably be a similar story. The pet shop owner said he'd never seen or heard anything like it and they were fine together with the other female.


Thank you for sharing what must have been a harrowing experience.


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## No1much

I shared because there were a few people who seemed to think that maybe it was caused by a third party like a cat or child and this may lead to people researching whether it's ok to keep two Russians together to think that "they'll be ok together" like I did. They won't be they can be viscous to each other. Always keep separate. Even if they've been together forever they're animals and they can be unpredictable.


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## Russiantortylady

Both of my Russians are kept separate.


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## Tortoise MasterMan

I had no idea that tortoises could do that much damage to each other.


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## Sa Ga

Russians have incredibly strong bites. I don't know that they would eat each other (they are strict vegetarians), but if one got a hold of the other w/ her neck out, I do not doubt she could snap it in her territorial rage... 

I'm so sorry and thank you for sharing. May others learn from your loss and may they learn that a seemingly small squabble today may lead to massacre tomorrow.


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## Charlie's pal

I am so sorry for the loss of your tortoise. I am new to tortoise keeping and just joined the forum. I am sure the experienced keepers have the best advice about keeping tortoises separate but I wanted to share a thought. I used to raise quail and predators were getting to the birds in their outdoor enclosure. I thought it might have been a raccoon or cat because they would try to pull the birds through the cage. I brought them inside the basement thinking they were safe. It turned out that rats were attracted to the food and found a way to get in the basement. They killed another young bird devouring the head and leaving the rest of the body. The exterminator said that a large rat can do a lot of damage. Just a thought. I hope things are going well with your other tortoises.


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## Sa Ga

Koopa And Roxie said:


> Hi I'm new to this website and I've never seen anything like this before. My male Moroccan Greek Tortoise, Koopa will often beat up (ram or bite) my other tort, a female Sulcata, Roxie. But I didn't know it could be this lethal. Were they outside when this happened? I so it could have been a cat or something. Are they all the same species? If not depending on their size and bit force it could be possible one of her tank mates did this.
> 
> Sorry about your loss.



I sure hope you separate them asap! Even if he doesn't kill her, imagine how stressful it is for Roxie to get attacked! Please please please find a way to keep access to each other barred.


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## Sa Ga

wellington said:


> Tortoises dont want or need friends. Best to keep single or in a group of one Male to several females and even then they may all need to be housed alone.



That's what this was....


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