# Two surrendered tortoises



## MsLostRider (Aug 19, 2016)

My friends had these dropped off at the door(ran an animal rescue previously so it's not unusual). I have a love and bond with them. I'm in the process of getting a better job but can't take them to the vet right this moment. They both have visible damage. Any help for now would be great. Male(spike) has damage on both sides of shell. Female(shelly) has skin flaking and top shell damage. Make has deformities under shell.


----------



## Gillian M (Aug 19, 2016)

MsLostRider said:


> My friends had these dropped off at the door(ran an animal rescue previously so it's not unusual). I have a love and bond with them. I'm in the process of getting a better job but can't take them to the vet right this moment. They both have visible damage. Any help for now would be great. Male(spike) has damage on both sides of shell. Female(shelly) has skin flaking and top shell damage. Make has deformities under shell.


A very warm welcome to the forum! 

Please read the "Beginners Mistakes" Thread. I'd also suggest taking your torts to a vet.


----------



## Yvonne G (Aug 19, 2016)

Hi, and welcome to the Forum!

In that first picture, losing those scales is just like you falling down and getting a skinned knee. Superficial. I don't see anything to be worried about other than the fact that these are a protected species of tortoise. The Gopher tortoise can't be taken from the wild. I don't know where you live, but it is pretty important for you to check with your State's laws regarding the Gopher tortoise.


----------



## MsLostRider (Aug 19, 2016)

They were dropped off to us by a kid in a truck. Until you said that I thought they were sulcatas to be honest. Thats what I had been told previously. We have a bond so it is what it is. I call their names and they come. They eat from my hand and nuzzle for kisses.


----------



## Gillian M (Aug 19, 2016)

MsLostRider said:


> They were dropped off to us by a kid in a truck. Until you said that I thought they were sulcatas to be honest. Thats what I had been told previously. We have a bond so it is what it is. I call their names and they come. They eat from my hand and nuzzle for kisses.


That's a great start.


----------



## Grandpa Turtle 144 (Aug 19, 2016)

Hello


----------



## MsLostRider (Aug 19, 2016)

They have spiked theighs.... Gophers don't as far as I have seen


----------



## orv (Aug 19, 2016)

Where are you located? To enable us to be of assistance we need to know where you are. If you don't wish to expose your location on the forum, send a PM to myself, or for that matter, any one of us to enable assistance. We're here to help. As always, Orvil


----------



## ZEROPILOT (Aug 19, 2016)

In Florida, simply touching a Gopher Tortoise carries a hefty fine.
Also, as in most tortoises, two can't be easily housed together. Assuming you are not from Florida.


----------



## MsLostRider (Aug 19, 2016)

They aren't together as ones male and ones female. They both go indoors and out. Still not sure what they are as they have horned legs in the back and was originally told sulcata. I've had the one for almost 2 months. She doesn't want to leave and even tries to come in backdoor when weather's not prefered... At any rate I'd delete post if I could. Just wanted to make sure they were ok


----------



## MsLostRider (Aug 19, 2016)

spur thigh tortoise


----------



## wellington (Aug 19, 2016)

Can you post better pics of their heads and front legs from straight on. They don't really look like sulcatas. However a few more pics that I asked for might help. 
If they are against the law to have, I don't think they could be returned to the wild anyway by the way you describe them, their personality. Sounds like they have probably been in captivity too long to be returned. Let's first see if we can get them ID'ed with 100% certainty.


----------



## MsLostRider (Aug 20, 2016)

I'll get some later today. I knew nothing of tortoises when I started caring for them, other than my daughter had seen huge tortoises in NC and we loved them. So upset at the thought that they not be what was said. And me and Shelly are bonded. If they aren't what I was told. What do I do? I'm not going to put them out. I love them.  It went to storm the other day, Shelly came up to back door asking to come in. Clearly not wild. And she has harness indents on her shell. Joking around one day(thinking she's going to grow to a giant) I was talking about getting her to walk on a leash with me. Grabbed a harness, put it over shell and noticed straps fit her indents perfectly. She was someone's pet previously before surrendered and it shows. I'm lost now.


----------



## MsLostRider (Aug 20, 2016)

I did not actually put the harness on, especially when I saw it matched. Want that to be clear


----------



## SarahChelonoidis (Aug 20, 2016)

Post more photos - people here will be able to help. The carapaces in those above photos look like wild caught tortoises to me (the first one especially), but they may have been in captivity for a long time. I am not sure what the laws are in your state - there may be exceptions for registered wildlife rehabbers allowing you to keep them. Releasing them back into the wild after they've been in captivity and exposed to each other, and potentially other animals, is unwise as you could be spreading disease into the wild population. What to do here will depend on what your state requires - there may be a facility you can surrender them to if you are not able to keep them. Most important thing first: correctly id the species and move on from there. They are not sulcata.


----------



## MsLostRider (Aug 20, 2016)

That's fine, I get that now. They were delivered in a truck, and most likely were pets previously as one has harness indents in shell. I don't care what they are, I care for them fine and we have a bond. Unless anyone has care tops, no further help needed. We have a friend who is licenced for them so we will go see him to verify. As an fyi, Shelly comes to the door trying to come in if it starts to look like rain. She runs in my house with dogs, kid etc. Snuggles and gets kisses happily. There's not much wild there. They are staying no matter the type.


----------



## wellington (Aug 20, 2016)

Please don't get offended by anyone's post. We are all here to help you properly ID them so you can properly care for them. We also want you to know what they are incase it is illegal to have them, so you can take the precautions needed to keep them with no legal problems. No one here would turn you in, so don't worry about that. We are more concerned about the tortoises then any legalities. I would think most if not all of us would want you to keep them as they do not sound wild active enough to be returned to the wild anyway. We just want you to know what you have more then anything so you not only know, but then can get the right care for them.


----------



## Yvonne G (Aug 20, 2016)

Well, it's only a toss up between Greek tortoises and Gopher tortoises. They most definitely ARE NOT sulcatas. Let's send a shout-out to @HermanniChris. He'll be able to tell you with 100% certainty what species you have.


----------



## HermanniChris (Aug 20, 2016)

They are Gopher tortoises without any single doubt and absolutely not Greek tortoises.


----------



## JoesMum (Aug 20, 2016)

HermanniChris said:


> They are Gopher tortoises without any single doubt and absolutely not Greek tortoises.


And with that news, which state are you in? Do you know the laws concerning this species in your state?


----------



## orv (Aug 20, 2016)

Perhaps it might be helpful for you to contact a local tortoise and turtle society to establish proper husbandry and identity for them. This way you could share with local enthusiasts for you and your daughter's enjoyment and enrichment. Sharing with others is always a great plan for learning.


----------



## Tom (Aug 20, 2016)

MsLostRider said:


> My friends had these dropped off at the door(ran an animal rescue previously so it's not unusual). I have a love and bond with them. I'm in the process of getting a better job but can't take them to the vet right this moment. They both have visible damage. Any help for now would be great. Male(spike) has damage on both sides of shell. Female(shelly) has skin flaking and top shell damage. Make has deformities under shell.



From what I can see in the pics you have one sulcata and one Gopherus species. Similar care and feeding except the Gopherus can hibernate and the sulcata will need to be kept warm all winter. Sulcatas also get much bigger and tend to need more grass in the diet. More pics would help confirm or deny this.

Here are some feeding tips: http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/for-those-who-have-a-young-sulcata.76744/

Here is a housing situation that will work well for any Gopherus species:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/semi-underground-russian-box.98590/#post-922226
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/heating-an-outdoor-russian-night-box.116180/#post-1077261

Here is some housing info for sulcatas:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/another-night-box-thread.88966/
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/my-best-night-box-design-yet.66867/
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/search/8486235/?q=enclosure+expansion&t=post&o=relevance


----------



## motero (Aug 20, 2016)

"From what I can see in the pics you have one sulcata and one Gopherus species. More pics would help confirm or deny this."

They both have nuchal scutes. Sullys don't.
Pics would be great, we all just love pictures.


----------



## Yvonne G (Aug 20, 2016)

Tom said:


> From what I can see in the pics you have one sulcata and one Gopherus species. Similar care and feeding except the Gopherus can hibernate and the sulcata will need to be kept warm all winter. Sulcatas also get much bigger and tend to need more grass in the diet. More pics would help confirm or deny this.
> 
> Here are some feeding tips: http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/for-those-who-have-a-young-sulcata.76744/
> 
> ...



No, Tom. They are both gopher tortoises.


----------



## orv (Aug 20, 2016)

TOM: I'm a relative novice when it comes to identifying tortoise species. Could you help with some of the identifying marks differentiating these two tortoises in the pictures?


----------



## Yvonne G (Aug 20, 2016)

orv said:


> TOM: I'm a relative novice when it comes to identifying tortoise species. Could you help with some of the identifying marks differentiating these two tortoises in the pictures?



There is no difference, Orv. They are both gopher tortoises.


----------



## orv (Aug 20, 2016)

This is as I thought, thank you Yvonne.


----------



## Tom (Aug 20, 2016)

Yvonne G said:


> No, Tom. They are both gopher tortoises.



The leg scales on the overhead shot of the lighter colored one look very sulcata-ish from that angle.

I'd like to see more pics of that one before I'll sign off on calling it Gopherus.


----------



## ascott (Aug 20, 2016)

MsLostRider said:


> My friend has these dropped off at the door(ran an animal rescue previously so it's not unusual). I have a love and bond with them. I'm in the process of getting a better job but can't take them to the vet right this moment. They both have visible damage. Any help for now would be great. Male(spike) has damage on both sides of shell. Female(shelly) has skin flaking and top shell damage. Make has deformities under shell.
> 
> View attachment 184129
> View attachment 184130
> ...


Hi..those appear gopherus family to me as well....the first pic is of the front leg and that appears to be a growth under the skin...the side view pic of that same leg is again the front...I believe you are seeing damage/growth and not s species specific spur...

Also..it is no big deal to acquire a permit for them ..so no need to get worried  it is awesome that you are caring for them..if you share what state you are in then we can offer better direction as far as a permit...again, so simple to acquire a permit..people do it all of the time..and the only reason I am interested in the state you live in is because that will better help in sharing what outdoor space is most beneficial to your two new house mates....


----------



## ZEROPILOT (Aug 22, 2016)

@ascott, Are you speaking of Florida?
I've never known about being able to get a permit for a tortoise enthusiast to keep gophers. (In Florida)
So much of what I've heard came to me second hand.
I do know that developers can pay a fee and then cover up gophers in their burrows and build a shopping center on top of them.


----------



## ascott (Aug 22, 2016)

ZEROPILOT said:


> @ascott, Are you speaking of Florida?
> I've never known about being able to get a permit for a tortoise enthusiast to keep gophers. (In Florida)
> So much of what I've heard came to me second hand.
> I do know that developers can pay a fee and then cover up gophers in their burrows and build a shopping center on top of them.



No..that is the one state that is completely a$$ backwards..


----------



## Berkeley (Sep 8, 2016)

HermanniChris said:


> They are Gopher tortoises without any single doubt and absolutely not Greek tortoises.



Agreed. They are both Gopher tortoises, and completely protected wherever they are. 

--Berkeley


----------



## BeeBee*BeeLeaves (Sep 8, 2016)

Berkeley said:


> Agreed. They are both Gopher tortoises, and completely protected wherever they are.



Agree about protected.

Unless Fish and Wildlife gets their hands on them. Then I understand, they may euthanize them. If anyone else knows about this sad issue, please chime in, about tortoises, and share. Apparently in some parts of our country, this is norm.

BLM too. With the chronic killing of The People's wild horses on The People's land. Another thread, another time ...

An issue that boils my blood. All.Life.Matters. Every creature counts.


----------



## Yvonne G (Sep 8, 2016)

BeeBee*BeeLeaves said:


> Agree about protected.
> 
> Unless Fish and Wildlife gets their hands on them. Then I understand, they may euthanize them. If anyone else knows about this sad issue, please chime in, about tortoises, and share. Apparently in some parts of our country, this is norm.
> 
> ...



This is true. Because they can't be returned to the wild once they've been handled by humans, the California Department of Fish and Wildlife will euthanize them. Here in California the department doesn't maintain an adoption program. Clubs do, though, so it's always better to turn tortoises over to a club rather than the Department.


----------



## BrianWI (Sep 8, 2016)

Gopher Torts for sure. I would not be sad they aren't sulcata, they are great animals.


----------



## Holly'sMom (Sep 8, 2016)

I'm new so take my advice w a grain of salt it's just my opinion... If the game commission may take them and put them down I wouldn't attempt to get a permit. I had bought hedge hogs in NC about 15yrs ago. I'm in PA where they're illegal to own(Now). I had them as a kid in the early 90's when it was still legal to buy a bloodline in pa and just didn't realize they'd made a full out war on hedge hogs in Our state making them completely illegal in the 90's until the vet told me (they still treated them wo issue for many years). I'd purchased in a pet store that was aware I was from out of state, no one mentioned the new(ish) laws to me. ANYWAYS like I said I'm new to tortoises but If your able to care for them and trying to obtain a permit would cause them to be taken possibly put down, I wouldn't try. I doubt most vets ask for permits and I don't think anyone else besides you and your vet need to really know what they are. Again just my opinion


----------



## Holly'sMom (Sep 8, 2016)

(Unless I'm misunderstanding that the game commission will put them down)


----------



## BeeBee*BeeLeaves (Sep 8, 2016)

Yvonne G said:


> This is true. Because they can't be returned to the wild once they've been handled by humans, the California Department of Fish and Wildlife will euthanize them. Here in California the department doesn't maintain an adoption program. Clubs do, though, so it's always better to turn tortoises over to a club rather than the Department.



Yvonne, does the Department in California call the CTTC clubs, board of directors? and save the animal? If CTTC chapters are out there, one would think ...


----------



## Berkeley (Sep 8, 2016)

Holly'sMom said:


> (Unless I'm misunderstanding that the game commission will put them down)



It doesn't happen like that in Georgia, at least. If someone has a gopher tortoise in the state of GA without a permit, the animals are confiscated and if it is known where the animals are from (which is not very likely) they are returned to the wild if at all possible. If it is not known where the animals are from (which is way more likely and happens all the time) the animals are a) taken to a repatriation colony and released in the wild *or* b) given to a permit holder for use in education. 

I don't know of any confiscated gophers that have been put down (except for maybe some that have had health issues) just because they were being kept illegally. 

Since the gophers are a threatened species, every effort is made to preserve them and make them useful either genetically (out in the wild, reproducing) or educationally (in captivity- legally!- being ambassadors for the species).

--Berkeley


----------



## Holly'sMom (Sep 8, 2016)

I was kind of confused about that( them being put down ) but obviously hedgehogs aren't tortoise and aren't endangered.. pa also has the craziest laws w them, none of the other states they're band from are as horrid as PA. If your caught w a hedgehog here they'll actually raid your house like a drug bust (so I've heard/read online).. But they could be an invasive species not an endangered one. Thanks for clearing up my misunderstanding of the comments


----------



## Berkeley (Sep 9, 2016)

You're welcome. Glad to help.

I'm not quite sure what all the furor over hedgehogs is. They are illegal in several other places as well, GA included. I think a big part of it is that they are known vectors for hoof-and-mouth disease, and if there is any sort of a cattle/dairy industry in the state that is the reason for the extreme caution.
I've never kept them, so I haven't kept up with the regulations for hedgehogs as much.

--Berkeley


----------



## Holly'sMom (Sep 11, 2016)

Part of it is if they're released into the wild they could live and they would be considered an invasive species as well as the diseases. PA yeah I'm not sure they just went flat our war on them lol now they threaten to take your animal if it's even shipped through our state. A couple years ago I have been looking into buying another one and not somebody refused the ship going to PA I would've had to drive to West Virginia which is really less than an hour away. But That's how I learned about houses getting raided over a hedgehog just as a pet that you get just as much trouble for them as if you were a drug dealer or something.. Obviously we decided not to get another as I'd been lucky to not get in trouble w the first one


----------



## Lauren Tilbury (Feb 14, 2017)

MsLostRider, I am in the same boat as you. My uncle was dying and I offered to take his tortoise. I received her in mid-January.
I was told she was a desert tortoise, but when I asked my aunt if she knew where he got her, she told me he had gotten her in the everglades in 1968.
I started doing my homework and found that she was a Gopher Tortoise. That didn't really mean anything to me until I called Florida Fish and Wildlife.
My uncle had her in New York. She was flown to me in Southern California. Fish and Wildlife called me on Monday morning, I called on Friday at about 4:30 pm right before closing time. They told me I needed to relinquish her immediately; To take her to a zoo where she could be an ambassador for her species and thousands of people would be able to enjoy her. Well, I didn't think she had signed on to be a movie star, and I made a promise to my uncle that I would take care of her. I am getting ready to call Fish and Wildlife in Southern California about getting her licensed. She, too, has been in captivity for a very long time.


----------

