# Reptisun 10.0 or 5.0?? Lighting for Leopards



## DesertGrandma (Nov 20, 2011)

I just purchased a Christmas Tree Storage container and have it set up with a 100 watt CHE over hide box and a 100 watt MVB bulb in one corner. I am not happy with the lack of lighting overall in the enclosure due to its larger size than what I have been using. Have decided to also add a ZooMed Reptisun fluorescent tube light for more light. The light will sit only about 12-14 inches above the substrate. Should I get the reptisun 10.0 bulb or the 5.0 bulb? Would the 10.0 be too bright or hot? Not looking to get anymore heat, just more lighting and UVA/UVB. I will still be using the MVB and CHE. Would appeciate any suggestions from anyone who uses these bulbs. Thank you.


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## FADE2BLACK_1973 (Nov 20, 2011)

DesertGrandma said:


> I just purchased a Christmas Tree Storage container and have it set up with a 100 watt CHE over hide box and a 100 watt MVB bulb in one corner. I am not happy with the lack of lighting overall in the enclosure due to its larger size than what I have been using. Have decided to also add a ZooMed Reptisun fluorescent tube light for more light. The light will sit only about 12-14 inches above the substrate. Should I get the reptisun 10.0 bulb or the 5.0 bulb? Would the 10.0 be too bright or hot? Not looking to get anymore heat, just more lighting and UVA/UVB. I will still be using the MVB and CHE. Would appeciate any suggestions from anyone who uses these bulbs. Thank you.



I would go with the 10.0 because of the higher amount of uvb plus flouresents do not put out any heat so you got it made there. And they are not bright, well the straight tube types dont.


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## DeanS (Nov 20, 2011)

I would go with neither because they are both CRAP! It's OK to have variance in lighting...gives the torts more options. If anything, switch to a 160W MVB.


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## DesertGrandma (Nov 20, 2011)

DeanS said:


> I would go with neither because they are both CRAP! It's OK to have variance in lighting...gives the torts more options. If anything, switch to a 160W MVB.



Hi Dean. I can't go with a 160 MVB because it needs to be further away from the torts than 12-14 inches, although it would certainly provide more light. I am using the lid to the enclosure (with cutouts for lights) in order to get my humidity stabilized. Making it more like a closed chamber. Thanks for your input.



FADE2BLACK_1973 said:


> DesertGrandma said:
> 
> 
> > I just purchased a Christmas Tree Storage container and have it set up with a 100 watt CHE over hide box and a 100 watt MVB bulb in one corner. I am not happy with the lack of lighting overall in the enclosure due to its larger size than what I have been using. Have decided to also add a ZooMed Reptisun fluorescent tube light for more light. The light will sit only about 12-14 inches above the substrate. Should I get the reptisun 10.0 bulb or the 5.0 bulb? Would the 10.0 be too bright or hot? Not looking to get anymore heat, just more lighting and UVA/UVB. I will still be using the MVB and CHE. Would appeciate any suggestions from anyone who uses these bulbs. Thank you.
> ...



Hi Chris. Are you currently using the 10.0 tube light? How high are you hanging it? What results has it made on your torts? Thanks for your suggestion.

Guess I should clarify my question a bit. I am wanting to know if having a ZooMed Reptisun 10.0 bulb only 12-14 inches away from the substrate would in any way be harmful to my leo torts. I have tried to research the subject but can't find anywhere that describes the difference between using the 5.0 and the 10.0. I am only assuming that it might have something to do with the height you plan to put it from your tortoise (as is the case with the MVB bulbs), but I am only speculating on this. If the 10.0 is not harmful at 12-14 inches away from the substrate then that is what I plan to get. I really don't want to hang the light any higher than that if I can at all avoid it. Would appreciate hearing some advice from some of our experts on lighting and safety. Thanks again.


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## DeanS (Nov 20, 2011)

DesertGrandma said:


> DeanS said:
> 
> 
> > I would go with neither because they are both CRAP! It's OK to have variance in lighting...gives the torts more options. If anything, switch to a 160W MVB.
> ...





Then you're BEST to stick with the 100W...my winter set-ups are 100w MVB and a 100W CHE for the youngsters...and 160W/100W for Aladar! Irarely light him up though! Plus, I'm dragging my feet but I'm gonna install radiant heat panels in the youngsters' habitats.


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## Tom (Nov 20, 2011)

Hi Joy. I don't think you need either of those bulbs. Your UV needs are already met by your MVB and your AZ sunshine. If you just want it to be brighter in there, I would go to the local hardware store and just buy a regular florescent bulb. They have lots of different types and I'm sure you can find the ones that are brightest or most "sun-like" by reading the labels. This is what I have done in my leopard enclosure. The fixture for them will be much cheaper too.

Also, dare I say it, I have used regular cfl bulbs too, but they have always been 2 or 3 feet away and they are NOT the UV type from the pet store.


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## FADE2BLACK_1973 (Nov 20, 2011)

DesertGrandma said:


> DeanS said:
> 
> 
> > I would go with neither because they are both CRAP! It's OK to have variance in lighting...gives the torts more options. If anything, switch to a 160W MVB.
> ...






I have used the 10.0 and 5.0 flouresents for many yrs with all other reptiles, of coarse have to be changed out. 10.0 will give you that longer distance from the bulbs surface to where 5.0 will give you a little bit less to get any amounts of uvb and uva. I notice that most people does not mention that UVA is also benifical for reptiles also. You are getting both from all these bulbs. But like Dean has stated that the MVB are the best way to go and you have already have one of those at one end. I still yet to use a MVB myself mainly because of their high price for a light bulb..lol. But other then that I assume that they are the way to go nowdays. There was not any MVB made for reptile use back in the older days, tortoises still did great without them indoors, the uvb flouresents did not produce that much of uvb, and we all was not bless with outdoors all year round. But everyone has a different look on this subject and yeah UVB MVB are great for 3 in one bulb. I still yet to use one but still debating on it myself. That's pretty much another story..lol


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## DesertGrandma (Nov 20, 2011)

Tom said:


> Hi Joy. I don't think you need either of those bulbs. Your UV needs are already met by your MVB and your AZ sunshine. If you just want it to be brighter in there, I would go to the local hardware store and just buy a regular florescent bulb. They have lots of different types and I'm sure you can find the ones that are brightest or most "sun-like" by reading the labels. This is what I have done in my leopard enclosure. The fixture for them will be much cheaper too.
> 
> Also, dare I say it, I have used regular cfl bulbs too, but they have always been 2 or 3 feet away and they are NOT the UV type from the pet store.




Hi Tom. Sure sounds a lot cheaper!! Do the regular fluorescent bulbs put out any heat? Maybe I could just lay the light fixture/bulb over the clear plexiglass on the darker side of the enclosure if they don't get hot. My vet suggested light 14-16 hours a day now that it is not summer anymore. That is what I am trying to achieve. Thanks Tom.


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## FADE2BLACK_1973 (Nov 20, 2011)

Oh I just noticed something. Like Tom mentioned about your AZ sunshine and the other members that live in the warmer states has a great advanage over the colder states. You all get to keep your torts outside for most of the year .


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## DeanS (Nov 20, 2011)

FADE2BLACK_1973 said:


> Oh I just noticed something. Like Tom mentioned about your AZ sunshine and the other members that live in the warmer states has a great advanage over the colder states. You all get to keep your torts outside for most of the year .



YEP! But we still have to make arrangements for the cold months...plus some people insist on keeping their animals indoors when there's no reason for it! If you live in SoCal...Phoenix...South FL...just to name a few...you are doing your animals a great injustice by keeping them indoors on days the sun is out. I'm really just talking about sulcatas, leopards, Galaps and Aldabs. Even in 60* weather, if you got full sun...put 'em out for a couple hours...then the lighting debate is rendered moot! They'll get all the UV...all the D3 they need in 2 hours of sun exposure then an entire day under a bulb


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## ascott (Nov 20, 2011)

Article from ZooMed:

UVB is a necessary part of the process in which vitamin D3 is produced in the skin of humans and animals, and is also what causes sunburn in humans. The vitamin D3 that is produced is responsible for regulating calcium metabolism. Vitamin D3 is obtained through diet or UVB exposure. Since most reptile species are unable to utilize dietary vitamin D3, they must have access to UVB. A lack of UVB and vitamin D3 can ultimately result in metabolic bone disease in reptiles, and rickets in humans. Nearly all animals that are active during the day are exposed to UVB.
In the early days of keeping reptiles, little was known about the specialized lighting requirements of the majority of reptile species. During this time, reptiles housed indoors were not exposed to UVB, and as a result would often develop Metabolic Bone Disease (MBD). MBD causes reptilesâ€™ bones to become soft resulting in severe deformities of the spine, broken legs, and soft jaws. In severe cases, the internal organs would calcify and become hard which ultimately resulted in death.
The majority of the cases of MBD occurred in Green Iguanas due to their popularity as pets, and to the fact that UVB exposure was necessary in order for them to remain healthy. Zoo Med understood that Iguanas kept outdoors did not develop MBD, while Iguanas fed the same diet but housed indoors did. This prompted Zoo Med to experiment with UVB in fluorescent lighting, and ultimately led to the release of the ReptiSun line of UVB lamps. Zoos, Veterinarians and hobbyists soon learned that all but the worst cases of MBD were reversible upon exposure to Zoo Medâ€™s ReptiSun lighting. In addition, reptiles that had access to UVB from ReptiSun lamps as hatchlings never developed MBD.
We now know that most diurnal (daytime active) reptiles require UVB. Since the release of the ReptiSun UVB lamps, dozens of scientific studies have confirmed their beneficial effect on reptiles. From the results of these studies, we can now make recommendations on exposure times, distances, and lamp replacement intervals.
Researchers have determined the UVB levels required by some reptile species in captivity. For tropical species, including chameleons and Iguanas, UVB levels of 13 to 30 â£W/cm2 (microwatts per square centimeter) are recommended when lamps are used 10 to 12 hours per day. Desert species (e.g. Bearded Dragons) can tolerate slightly higher levels from 13 to 150 â£W/cm2. For all reptile species, it is important to provide a UVB gradient that allows the reptile to adjust its UVB exposure. All reptiles should have access to a minimum of 13 microwatts of UVB in order to synthesize vitamin D3, metabolize calcium, and maintain healthy bone density.
Lamps that emit less than 13 microwatts at the reptiles basking site should not be used as they are likely incapable of providing sufficient UVB. Reptiles that do not get enough UVB are in danger of developing Metabolic Bone Disease. Reptiles also require heat in order to benefit from UVB and synthesize vitamin D3. Levels above 150 microwatts are seen in nature, but can be dangerous in a captive setting. Screen covers on terrariums filter out a portion of the UVB from all lamps, while glass and most plastics filter out 100% of the UVB.
*UVA*:
It is well established in the scientific literature that reptiles and amphibians can actually see UVA. This has also been documented in birds and fish. Humans have three different types of cones in our retina, each one being sensitive to different wavelengths. From these three types, we are able to make up our entire color spectrum. Humans that are red/green colorblind lack the third cone type and only have two. Birds, reptiles and amphibians possess FOUR different cone types instead of three. The fourth cone is sensitive to emissions in the UVA portion of the electromagnetic spectrum. This fourth â€œprimary colorâ€ makes up the birds entire range of visible light.
By not providing UVA, reptiles are essentially colorblind. It is similar to the condition of colorblindness in humans. Knowing this, it could be considered negligent to deny pet reptiles access to UVA as this is essential to their psychological well being. Studies have shown that glands on the hind legs of some lizards secrete a substance that reflects UVA and is used by them to mark territories. UVA plays a role in habitat selection, species recognition, and in mate selection among reptiles and amphibians.
*Types of Zoo Med UVB lamps available:*
Zoo Med offers three different types of UVB lamps; linear fluorescent, compact fluorescent, and mercury vapor. â™¦	ReptiSun 5.0 and 10.0 Linear Fluorescent: The linear fluorescent was the first UVB lamp available,
and fits into standard fluorescent fixtures. These German made lamps provide UVB, UVA, and visible light. They do not provide heat. The linear fluorescent ReptiSun is offered in two different models (5.0 and 10.0). The model used depends on the distance of the lamp to the reptile and the amount of UVB required. In addition to UVB, heat is necessary for vitamin D3 synthesis and must be provided by a separate heat source. These lamps come in a variety of lengths depending on the size of the cage. Independent scientific studies have shown that these lamps are effective for a minimum of 12 months.
â™¦	ReptiSun 5.0 and 10.0 Compact Fluorescent: Compact fluorescent lamps have a screw base and screw into a standard clamp lamp fixture. They are self-ballasted and do not require a separate ballast. These also provide UVB, UVA, and visible light. They do not provide heat. The compact fluorescent ReptiSun is offered in the same two models (5.0 and 10.0) as the linear fluorescent line. Again, heat is necessary for vitamin D3 synthesis and must be provided by a separate heat source. These lamps offer the convenience of providing UVB using a standard screw-base type fixture.
â™¦	PowerSun UV Mercury Vapor: The PowerSun UV mercury vapor lamps provide UVB, UVA, visible light and heat. This is the only lamp that provides heat in addition to UV. These lamps screw into a clamp lamp fixture with a ceramic/porcelain socket and do not require a separate ballast. The PowerSun UV is available in two wattages (100 watt and 160 watt). The wattage required depends on heat and UV requirements, and the distance of the lamp to the reptile.
â™¦	Iguana Light 5.0 Linear Fluorescent: This lamp is equivalent to the ReptiSun 5.0 linear fluorescent, and was developed to assure the consumer that this lamp is safe and effective for use with Iguanas.
â™¦	ReptiSun 2.0 Linear Fluorescent: The ReptiSun 2.0 linear fluorescent provides UVA and bright visible light, but does provide significant levels of UVB. Amphibians and snakes have specialized retinas that allow them to see UVA. This lamp is a good choice for these species.


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## DeanS (Nov 20, 2011)

Thanks for throwing this in here Angela. Now, all Zoo Med needs to do is lose the fluorescent lighting and concentrate on making a longer lasting MVB


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## ascott (Nov 20, 2011)

Dean, I believe that there are appropriate applications for flourescent bulbs as there are for MVB....as neither is a catch all, you know?


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## DeanS (Nov 20, 2011)

I'm just saying...in the tortoise world...there's really no place for fluorescents! Now, I'm not going to say anymore...and I'm definitely not going to get into a tussle with she who has provided so many 'expedition-like' commentaries to my photos

Footnote: My thoughts are geared primarily towards the Big 4...


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## Lulu (Nov 20, 2011)

My husband and I have used Reptisun 10.0 linear fluorescent bulbs for years with many different herps and we have been happy with them. One benefit is having a light source separate from the heat source, which allows us to turn off the light while allowing a constant temperature. I have never used a MVB, and haven't really seen a need to use one, though I don't begrudge those that do use them with success. To each his own.


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## Tom (Nov 20, 2011)

Joy, Any type of florescent is not going to produce much heat. The bulb should be able to rest on any surface and be just fine. They are use to light up acrylic (plexiglass) aquariums in this way all the time. Florescent bulbs are a fine way to add extra ambient light to an enclosure. I just worry about people who rely on the reptile florescent bulbs as their sole source of UV. In my experience they are not adequate for that. Of course, you already have the UV covered...


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## FADE2BLACK_1973 (Nov 20, 2011)

DeanS said:


> FADE2BLACK_1973 said:
> 
> 
> > Oh I just noticed something. Like Tom mentioned about your AZ sunshine and the other members that live in the warmer states has a great advanage over the colder states. You all get to keep your torts outside for most of the year .
> ...



Dean, you are 110% right on that . Nothing comes close to unfiltered natural sunlight. But would 60 dergree weather be too cold for sulcatas or leopards? I did let Spike out for afew hours to roam around in the yard for the natural sunlight when it was around 70 degress. But it has been rainy and in the 50's-60's here in Ky. so I wont chance it now.


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## ascott (Nov 20, 2011)

Dean, you are all fine with me...and we can absolutely agree to have different opinions  That is after all what makes the world go round....and you keep the photos coming that compel the narrator voice in my head to run a muck...fun stuff 

a side note: I do believe whole heartedly that the natural sun should be the first and foremost option for just about all tortoise (and turtle) and there is not a light on the market that can ever duplicate that beautiful thing.....I do know that lots of folks have hatchlings and youngins housed indoors --more so over the cooler months and it always freaks me out when the little sensitive eyeballs and sensitive skin are blasted and baked with such bright UVB lights in order for the little ones to attain the heat they love....you know? This is where my suggestion of the long tube UVB comes from.....not that I have to explain myself but just wanted to share that....


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## Lulu (Nov 20, 2011)

Angela, I'm with you 100% on the UV thing.


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## fbsmith3 (Nov 20, 2011)

Any incandescent light will give you heat, Fluorescent tubes for UVB are required for us in the northern reaches of the US and Zoomed says their basking light produces UVA . Zoo Med has always been straight with me and answered some rather difficult questions, so I will go with their Basking light and Fluorescent tubes.
The MVL lights are too expensive to be so unreliable, even ZooMeds. I am glad I have boxies that can take the temperatures of a normal winter home occasional when the stupid MVL light blows after 2 months, but I fear anyone who has to realign on a MVP lamp for their tortoises. 
Most important the kids need to be outside in the summer sun or whenever temperatures will be above 15C or 60F.


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## Neal (Nov 21, 2011)

DesertGrandma said:


> Guess I should clarify my question a bit. I am wanting to know if having a ZooMed Reptisun 10.0 bulb only 12-14 inches away from the substrate would in any way be harmful to my leo torts. I have tried to research the subject but can't find anywhere that describes the difference between using the 5.0 and the 10.0. I am only assuming that it might have something to do with the height you plan to put it from your tortoise (as is the case with the MVB bulbs), but I am only speculating on this. If the 10.0 is not harmful at 12-14 inches away from the substrate then that is what I plan to get. I really don't want to hang the light any higher than that if I can at all avoid it. Would appreciate hearing some advice from some of our experts on lighting and safety. Thanks again.



Hi Joy,

I am using the 10.0 florescent with 2 full spectrum florescent, one plant bulb, and a powersun MVB and natural sunlight. All of my florescent bulbs hang approx 13" above the substrate. I have had this set up for about 2 months and have not seen any issues at all, in fact I think I can make the argument that the more "good" lighting you have, the better. When I switched from just the MVB to this new lighting system almost immediately I noticed an increase in activity level and appetite in my tortoises. 

Without a doubt, your MVB and AZ sun will have your UVB needs covered so you really don't need the bulb...but, I would suggest you do get it and, if you can, also get a coupe more (full spectrum, and plant bulb). For me, it's a matter of going from good to great. 

I'm sorry, I can't give you much info on the difference between the 5.0 and 10.0 as far as distance goes. But I've used 10.0 florescent in other set ups and I have never had it more than about 13 - 14" above substrate level.


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## DesertGrandma (Nov 21, 2011)

Neal said:


> DesertGrandma said:
> 
> 
> > Guess I should clarify my question a bit. I am wanting to know if having a ZooMed Reptisun 10.0 bulb only 12-14 inches away from the substrate would in any way be harmful to my leo torts. I have tried to research the subject but can't find anywhere that describes the difference between using the 5.0 and the 10.0. I am only assuming that it might have something to do with the height you plan to put it from your tortoise (as is the case with the MVB bulbs), but I am only speculating on this. If the 10.0 is not harmful at 12-14 inches away from the substrate then that is what I plan to get. I really don't want to hang the light any higher than that if I can at all avoid it. Would appreciate hearing some advice from some of our experts on lighting and safety. Thanks again.
> ...




Thanks Neal. With this newer setup it sounds like you are hitting all bases. Your plants are able to survive too. I have read that the fluorescent UVA/UVB tube lights made a difference in the tortoise attitude (appetite, activity) like you have observed. I wonder if this is due to the extra light, or to the extra UVA/UVB in the light. I might experiment a little and try a plain fluorescent tube and then switch to the reptisun tube to see if I observe any difference in their activity level, etc. My new enclosure is just about done. Just need to get the lid holes cut out and buy the plexiglass. Lowe's will cut the plexiglass for me any size I want.

Angela, thanks for posting that info from ZooMed. It is really really helpful.


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## DeanS (Nov 21, 2011)

DesertGrandma said:


> My new enclosure is just about done. Just need to get the lid holes cut out and buy the plexiglass. Lowe's will cut the plexiglass for me any size I want.



Will Lowe's cut the lid holes for you as well?


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## DesertGrandma (Nov 21, 2011)

DeanS said:


> DesertGrandma said:
> 
> 
> > My new enclosure is just about done. Just need to get the lid holes cut out and buy the plexiglass. Lowe's will cut the plexiglass for me any size I want.
> ...



Dang. I just wrote out my reply and then hit the wrong key and it all disappeared, ughhhh. Okay back to that. No, my hubby will cut the holes in the lid when I decide exactly where I want them to be. Can't decide that until it is all set up and I see where all the light/heat fixtures will work. Now testing heat/humidity/light to make sure where I want them. Instead of one big hole in the top,I want to have three. That way I can move the plexiglasss around to try to get the best coverage. Will decide on the sizes of plexiglass once the lid is cut and I can see what I need. You can see where the lighting is important...don't want them sitting in a dark hole.

Guess I could have had round holes cut in the plexiglass to accomodate the light fixtures, but I thought this way would be a little more flexible in case I decide later to move a fixture.


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## Neal (Nov 21, 2011)

DesertGrandma said:


> I have read that the fluorescent UVA/UVB tube lights made a difference in the tortoise attitude (appetite, activity) like you have observed. I wonder if this is due to the extra light, or to the extra UVA/UVB in the light.



Remember too that reptiles see differently than humans do. Here are a couple of good sources for lighting info. 

http://www.tortoiseforum.org/Thread-Practical-Lighting-for-Tortoise-Keepers#axzz1eNJ23ZEI

http://www.reptileuvinfo.com/docs/aspects-of-light-and-reptile-immunity.pdf

http://www.reptileuvinfo.com/


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## DesertGrandma (Nov 21, 2011)

Neal said:


> DesertGrandma said:
> 
> 
> > I have read that the fluorescent UVA/UVB tube lights made a difference in the tortoise attitude (appetite, activity) like you have observed. I wonder if this is due to the extra light, or to the extra UVA/UVB in the light.
> ...



Wow Neal. These are great links. I had read the one by Balboa before and wasn't able to understand all of it, but as my understanding of lighting increases so does my ability to understand his reasoning and techniques. It just further points out how amazing our natural outdoor sunshine is. Trying to replicate that is complex to say the least.


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