dog training advice needed

Gillian M

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Oh I love Bowser. I don't fear him. But there are times I do get anxious, but i quickly recover and correct him. I'm quite proud of myself in this area. My wife notices a huge improvement as well. Bowser is just a pup and I understand his behaviors are due to his lack of understanding and just being a pup in general. I also understand the difficulty and the high expectations we set for these animals. He has to learn or Leesburg and he has to learn to be civil. All human behaviors and far from his instincts. I guess I have those oh crap moments where it's not so much fear as it is a reality check. I am working double time on this as I love his floppy ears and his uber amount of slobber that covers my face and even though he won't quit trying to eat everything and everyone. Lol
He is so cute!
 

Minority2

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Sure. When I speak of "traditional" dog training, I'm referring to the "old school" where you put a leash and an appropriate correction collar on the dog and then use a combination of appropriate leash corrections and praise to encourage the behavior you want and discourage the behavior you don't want. Which collar to use, and how hard to correct the dog varies tremendously. Likewise, when to praise, how to praise, and how much to praise, varies tremendously. This method has been in use for centuries and is very effective. Done correctly it creates a wonderful relationship between dog and handler. This method works exceptionally well when paired with other methods at the appropriate times in a dogs life. Again, I emphasize, I don't use one method or another. I employ many methods in infinite degrees and combinations.

For anyone who wants more study on this, look up the terms classical conditioning and operant conditioning. The best illustration of classical condition is Pavlov's dogs. Ring the bell, feed the dog. Pretty soon the dog associates the bell with food. This is equivalent, in training terms, to a young puppy learning that the trainer expressing "GOOD!" means petting, praise or food is coming. The newer style of "clicker" training takes advantage of the principals of classical conditioning.

Operant conditioning is much more complex and consists of two basic principals and four basic components:
  1. Principal #1: If a behavior is followed by a positive consequence, it is likely to occur again.
  2. Principal #2: If a behavior is followed by a negative consequence, it is likely to not occur again.
Examples: #1: If you approach me and I hand you a $100 bill and a box of your favorite candy, you are likely to approach me again the next time you see me. #2: If you approach me and I punch you in the nose, you are likely to try really hard to avoid me the next time you see me. Simple, right?
  1. Component #1: Positive reinforcement. Everyone is familiar with this term, but few really understand it as it pertains to animal training. For our purposes in this discussion, think of positive and negative in mathematical terms. Adding to, or taking away from. Positive reinforcement then is giving the animal something it wants. Example: Dog sits on command, and I throw a ball. I gave the dog something it wanted, a ball chase, and the dog then is likely to sit again as a result.
  2. Component #2: Negative reinforcement. In this one, I take away something the animal doesn't like. Herding is a good example. In Africa I had a great time herding a group of 11 giraffe form a distance of about 200 meters. I wanted them to move left so I took a few steps toward them (from 200 meters away...) and wiggled my right hand. When they complied, I backed away and kept my hand still. I took away something they didn't like (Me moving closer) to reinforce their behavior of moving to my left.
  3. Component #3: Positive punishment. This is giving the dog something it doesn't want to discourage a behavior. Easy example is a leash correction or Logan's swat to the snout for biting my tender vittles, which was reflexive in all honesty. Ouch.
  4. Component #4: Negative Punishment. Remember, mathematical positive and negative here. Negative punishment is taking away something the dog wants. When I have one of those rare extremely vicious cases where the dog is going to be euthanized if I don't fix it, I put the dog in a kennel and use negative punishment initially. I approach the dog and make it very obvious that I have a big bowl of yummy dog food in my hand. I approach from upwind and usually add chicken or bacon to a mix of kibble and canned food. As I approach the kennel I look for the dog's response. If the dog is aggressive and tries to lunge and bark aggressively at me, I simply turn and walk away. Negative punishment. I take away something the dog wants to discourage the bad behavior. If the dog remains calm and doesn't behave aggressively, I give it the yummy bowl of food. Positive reinforcement. I give it something it wants to encourage that good behavior to happen again. Works like a charm.

How to do this all correctly is an art form. Some people are the DaVinci's of dog training, and some people who call themselves trainers can't paint any better than a below average toddler. Lifetimes are spent learning and perfecting these techniques and principals. Some people are just naturally talented at these things and other people can't seem to "get it" even with the best coaches in the world helping them. This aspect of some people naturally understanding these subtleties, while other people can't seem to grasp even the broadest generalities of these concepts has been a source of fascination to me since I was a child.

Again, questions, comments and discussion are welcome. This is my career, profession, hobby and passion. The above paragraphs are literally how I earn my living. I'm on set getting paid for understanding and applying these concepts right now. :)

Kept getting flashbacks of Psychology 1000 when I was reading this post. The trauma.
 

Violanna

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Oh I love Bowser. I don't fear him. But there are times I do get anxious, but i quickly recover and correct him. I'm quite proud of myself in this area. My wife notices a huge improvement as well. Bowser is just a pup and I understand his behaviors are due to his lack of understanding and just being a pup in general. I also understand the difficulty and the high expectations we set for these animals. He has to learn or Leesburg and he has to learn to be civil. All human behaviors and far from his instincts. I guess I have those oh crap moments where it's not so much fear as it is a reality check. I am working double time on this as I love his floppy ears and his uber amount of slobber that covers my face and even though he won't quit trying to eat everything and everyone. Lol

Well one of the keys with dogs that most don’t know about is they have two periods in adolescence where they are extremely impressionable. The first is 6-12weeks when they learn who their family is and about trust and love. This is why most weaned pups leave mom at 8w.

The 2nd is at 4-6 months this is their toddler stage where they test everything to learn their boundaries.

I’m a Vet student is this was one of the key subjects of my last class. As a personal example it shows very strongly with my lab/boxer. He is almost 7 and I’ve had him since he was 10weeks old. However before we rescued him he was part of a horrible dog hoarding situation. He was malnourished, beat, and kept in a tiny cage with his siblings. He was taken from there at 9w and we got him a week later. But even still since so much of that bad happened during his key impressionable stage he still has issues from it. If I reach to pet him he will flinch horribly back about a foot or two. So instead I just put my hand down to him to let him know I want to pet him and he comes to me.

I say this because your pup is in the behavioral impression stage and it’s very hard to undo negative impressions. Not impossible though.IMG_3552.jpg

Picture of me and my pups
 

drew54

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@Tom So, she has decided to get a control collar. How do we get an appropriate collar and I guess how do we start using it until we find a trainer?
 

Tom

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@Tom So, she has decided to get a control collar. How do we get an appropriate collar and I guess how do we start using it until we find a trainer?
What do you mean "control collar"? At five months old, you don't want to be doing a lot of corrections or control.
 

drew54

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What do you mean "control collar"? At five months old, you don't want to be doing a lot of corrections or control.

I meant correction collar sorry. I guess we are very confused on what to do in the meantime while we search for a reputable trainer near us. We try to work with him on basic commands, mouthing /biting, socializing, and potty training, but nothing seems to be very effective. He is getting more aggressive as he gets more excited. He wants to play but he bites anywhere on the body including the face and he is now jumping on everyone and scratching their faces and everything. We have kids and we're afraid he is going to get too excited and hurt one by accident. We are actively looking for a protection trainer as you suggested, but we don't know what to do in the meantime.
 

Yvonne G

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I was thinking they were talking about those collars with the metal nubs that dig into the dog's neck:

45-50-55-60cm-adjustable-dog-training-collar.jpg
 

Tom

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I meant correction collar sorry. I guess we are very confused on what to do in the meantime while we search for a reputable trainer near us. We try to work with him on basic commands, mouthing /biting, socializing, and potty training, but nothing seems to be very effective. He is getting more aggressive as he gets more excited. He wants to play but he bites anywhere on the body including the face and he is now jumping on everyone and scratching their faces and everything. We have kids and we're afraid he is going to get too excited and hurt one by accident. We are actively looking for a protection trainer as you suggested, but we don't know what to do in the meantime.
In the mean time, don't allow him the opportunity to do the things you don't want him to do. Leash, crate or kennel. He can't jump on the kids if he's not running around loose. At five months old I don't allow the puppy to make the wrong decisions and learn bad habits. I prevent and avoid problems rather than correct them. I correct the problems later on when the pup is more mature and we've reached that point in our relationship and training history.

A correction collar won't do you any good until you know how and when to use it. Most people use them incorrectly until they are shown, and how to use them is just one part of many elements in training the pup and managing his playfulness.

How best to correct him and fix the problem is too variable for me to tell you over the internet without seeing the pup and his behavior. Get a trainer in there ASAP to show you guys what to do and how to manage this puppy playfulness.
 

drew54

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In the mean time, don't allow him the opportunity to do the things you don't want him to do. Leash, crate or kennel. He can't jump on the kids if he's not running around loose. At five months old I don't allow the puppy to make the wrong decisions and learn bad habits. I prevent and avoid problems rather than correct them. I correct the problems later on when the pup is more mature and we've reached that point in our relationship and training history.

A correction collar won't do you any good until you know how and when to use it. Most people use them incorrectly until they are shown, and how to use them is just one part of many elements in training the pup and managing his playfulness.

How best to correct him and fix the problem is too variable for me to tell you over the internet without seeing the pup and his behavior. Get a trainer in there ASAP to show you guys what to do and how to manage this puppy playfulness.
Thank you and I understand And this is actually what I wanted to hear about the collar. I will update you as soon as we find a trainer.
 

Violanna

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In the mean time, don't allow him the opportunity to do the things you don't want him to do. Leash, crate or kennel. He can't jump on the kids if he's not running around loose. At five months old I don't allow the puppy to make the wrong decisions and learn bad habits. I prevent and avoid problems rather than correct them. I correct the problems later on when the pup is more mature and we've reached that point in our relationship and training history.

A correction collar won't do you any good until you know how and when to use it. Most people use them incorrectly until they are shown, and how to use them is just one part of many elements in training the pup and managing his playfulness.

How best to correct him and fix the problem is too variable for me to tell you over the internet without seeing the pup and his behavior. Get a trainer in there ASAP to show you guys what to do and how to manage this puppy playfulness.

^ THIS!!! So much this!!

I made a couple mistakes early on with my lab. Correcting the wrong way. Trying to train certain behaviors before he was ready. Overall I have an amazing dog now but it was a lot of hard work put in for that. With my pointer I was more experienced and had started my Vet training so I knew more what to do. Got her at 7 weeks and had her behaviorally trained by 5 months. But even still she needs reminders if we get lax.
 
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