Is our 5yr old Turtie a boy or girl??

Diane Berner

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20191021_103459.jpg 20191021_103526.jpg Hi everyone,
Our Redfoot is doing great...grown alot since my last post. Weighs about 10lbs and is 13inches long... so far I've always thought Turtie (his name ) is a male but I thought I would let the experts help figure this out ... recently there has been some digging going on in the substrate... I would just die if suddenly -he- lays an egg!
 

Tom

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They need about 18" of substrate to dig and lay eggs.

Is there a male present?

Looks like the enclosure is quite small. Time for an upgrade?

Where are you? This tortoise is large enough to live outside full time if your climate is suitable.
 

Diane Berner

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They need about 18" of substrate to dig and lay eggs.

Is there a male present?

Looks like the enclosure is quite small. Time for an upgrade?

Where are you? This tortoise is large enough to live outside full time if your climate is suitable.
That's going to be tough to provide that much substrate in the habitat I have. How about a box in the habitat filled with substrate. Do you think that would work? I know she hates when I change anything around in her habitat. I know I need to get her a bigger place to live. I'm saving for an animal plastics cage. I live in Texas and right now it' s a little to cold to be outside. It's in the 60's at night. Also veey dry here so there's no humidity.
 

Toddrickfl1

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That's going to be tough to provide that much substrate in the habitat I have. How about a box in the habitat filled with substrate. Do you think that would work? I know she hates when I change anything around in her habitat. I know I need to get her a bigger place to live. I'm saving for an animal plastics cage. I live in Texas and right now it' s a little to cold to be outside. It's in the 60's at night. Also veey dry here so there's no humidity.
Try getting a plastic tote. Fill it with a 50/50 mix of potting soil and play sand and moisten the top layer. Put a CHE over it and keep it in the mid 80's. Put your tort in it for a couple hours before sunset each evening. If you see her digging again don't bother her just leave her in there till the next morning. If she fills the hole in then she laid her eggs.
 

Diane Berner

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Try getting a plastic tote. Fill it with a 50/50 mix of potting soil and play sand and moisten the top layer. Put a CHE over it and keep it in the mid 80's. Put your tort in it for a couple hours before sunset each evening. If you see her digging again don't bother her just leave her in there till the next morning. If she fills the hole in then she laid her eggs.
Thank you. I'm able to do that. Thanks again.
 

Diane Berner

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Yes. Yes it is.
So, I set up an extra large tote with the sand and potting soil mixture. I used eco earth instead of potting soil because pf the vermuculite in potting soil. There was a lot pf digging last night even though she was initially very agitated about being in a new space. Left her in there overnight. There was a lot of dirt moved around in the morning and sort of a shallow hole dug. I took her out in the morning and put her in her habitat. I will try again tonight. How long should I let her continue like this? When will I know if she's in distress and egg bound?
 

Toddrickfl1

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I've heard of it's their first time laying they will dig several test nests first. The first time they really don't know what they're doing. I just went thru the same process with one of my water turtles and it took about a week, and several nests dug before she actually layed them. I'd keep trying. As for when to be concerned about being egg bound I really don't have any experience with that so I can't really offer any good advice. Hopefully someone else can chime in.
 

Tom

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So, I set up an extra large tote with the sand and potting soil mixture. I used eco earth instead of potting soil because pf the vermuculite in potting soil. There was a lot pf digging last night even though she was initially very agitated about being in a new space. Left her in there overnight. There was a lot of dirt moved around in the morning and sort of a shallow hole dug. I took her out in the morning and put her in her habitat. I will try again tonight. How long should I let her continue like this? When will I know if she's in distress and egg bound?
I don't know how to explain this other than to be frank and straightforward about it.

Its not likely to work the way you are trying to do it and you are stressing the tortoise out. A large tortoise like that can't be in a little bitty tub. They need a room sized enclosure, indoors or out, and they need to be able to walk around, sniff the ground and choose their own perfect spot to lay. The tub you made needs to be a small section of a much larger indoor enclosure area, or you can make a properly insulated and heat night box for the tortoise and have it live outside in a large enclosure. Then, it could come out during the day when its warm and find a good spot to lay.

First and foremost though, I think you need to get an x-ray to confirm or deny the presence of eggs. If there are eggs, this is a serious matter and your tortoises life is literally at stake. If there are no eggs, then you have a tortoise in an enclosure that is too small, but there is no imminent danger.

You could make a night box half this size:
https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/double-door-night-box.129054/

I don't mean this to sound mean or harsh. I'm just trying to explain it plainly.
 

Diane Berner

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I don't know how to explain this other than to be frank and straightforward about it.

Its not likely to work the way you are trying to do it and you are stressing the tortoise out. A large tortoise like that can't be in a little bitty tub. They need a room sized enclosure, indoors or out, and they need to be able to walk around, sniff the ground and choose their own perfect spot to lay. The tub you made needs to be a small section of a much larger indoor enclosure area, or you can make a properly insulated and heat night box for the tortoise and have it live outside in a large enclosure. Then, it could come out during the day when its warm and find a good spot to lay.

First and foremost though, I think you need to get an x-ray to confirm or deny the presence of eggs. If there are eggs, this is a serious matter and your tortoises life is literally at stake. If there are no eggs, then you have a tortoise in an enclosure that is too small, but there is no imminent danger.

You could make a night box half this size:
https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/double-door-night-box.129054/

I don't mean this to sound mean or harsh. I'm just trying to explain it plainly.
You don't sound mean or harsh. I, like many others, got a tortoise and have not planned for how big it gets and it's needs in a situation like this. There's many reasons why the tortoise is not outside. Fire ants and Racoons to start. The tortoise also eats rocks and sticks when outside. This can't be good for it. I have a way of making a 15×8 foot enclosure outside. The ground is hard here with little rain, although we had some yesterday. There would be no way this tortoise could dig an 18" deep hole in the soil here. Do you suggest I just put her outside with some soft soil and hope she uses it? I will take her to the vet for some x-rays. I'm sure I'm not the only one this situation has happened to. I just need aome guidance. I don't want to lose my tortoise.
 

Diane Berner

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You don't sound mean or harsh. I, like many others, got a tortoise and have not planned for how big it gets and it's needs in a situation like this. There's many reasons why the tortoise is not outside. Fire ants and Racoons to start. The tortoise also eats rocks and sticks when outside. This can't be good for it. I have a way of making a 15×8 foot enclosure outside. The ground is hard here with little rain, although we had some yesterday. There would be no way this tortoise could dig an 18" deep hole in the soil here. Do you suggest I just put her outside with some soft soil and hope she uses it? I will take her to the vet for some x-rays. I'm sure I'm not the only one this situation has happened to. I just need aome guidance. I don't want to lose my tortoise.
I am using The Redfoot Manual by Mike Pingleton for advice as well. What does everyone think of his information on Redfoots?
 

Tom

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You don't sound mean or harsh. I, like many others, got a tortoise and have not planned for how big it gets and it's needs in a situation like this. There's many reasons why the tortoise is not outside. Fire ants and Racoons to start. The tortoise also eats rocks and sticks when outside. This can't be good for it. I have a way of making a 15×8 foot enclosure outside. The ground is hard here with little rain, although we had some yesterday. There would be no way this tortoise could dig an 18" deep hole in the soil here. Do you suggest I just put her outside with some soft soil and hope she uses it? I will take her to the vet for some x-rays. I'm sure I'm not the only one this situation has happened to. I just need aome guidance. I don't want to lose my tortoise.
Sometimes when I try to help, some people think I'm a big jerk. Maybe its the lack of tone from the typed word, or maybe I'm just bad at diplomacy and sugar coating things? Either way, I mean well, so I'm glad when people aren't offended.

Fire ants need to be eradicated. @ZEROPILOT has suggested good tips for that in the past, so let's see if we can get his help on this here. He's in FL, so fire ants are a constant problem there.

Raccoons and other predators are not a problem for a tortoise as large as yours that is safely locked away in its heated night box each night. Every night I make sure the tortoises are in their boxes and latch the doors shut. Every morning, I unlatch and drop open each door.

They eat sticks and rocks when there are dietary deficiencies or imbalances. Do you feed mostly grocery store greens? That will do it. Try adding some more weeds, leaves, flowers and plants of the right types. I avoid grocery store foods when possible. If you must use grocery store foods, favor endive and escarole are your mainstays. Use arugula, cilantro, dandelion greens, collard greens, turnip greens, mustard greens and more for variety. Also go online and order up some "MinerAll" from a company called "Sticky Tongue Farms". To be clear, this isn't a calcium deficiency, so adding calcium sometimes makes it worse. MinerAll is a balanced mineral supplement and it usually stops the stick and rock eating behavior within a week or two.

Hard ground is not a problem for tortoises. They can dig in ground so hard that my pick axe makes sparks when I hit it. We have ground so hard here that the blade of my shovel just bends when I jump on it, instead of penetrating the ground. Females empty their bladder reserves to help soften up the ground where they want to dig too. I wouldn't worry too much about that, but you can always go around and break up the ground and add some better dirt to a few areas around the enclosure. You'd be surprised how easily they can dig down and how far.

Yes on the x-ray. This is the only way to know how serious of a problem we are dealing with. Some people can also palpate the tortoise and feel foe eggs manually. I don't trust that method and don't use it myself. If you feel an egg, hey, that's great. Not feeling an egg though, means that you just didn't find one from the outside. Doesn't mean they aren't in there.
 

Tom

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I am using The Redfoot Manual by Mike Pingleton for advice as well. What does everyone think of his information on Redfoots?
I don't keep redfoots because my climate and environment (high desert) isn't suitable for them, so I haven't read that book. What I can share is that every single tortoise book that I have ever read is wrong. The info is old, wrong, often parroted, wrong, based on incorrect assumptions of what they need, based on incorrect assumptions about how things work in the wild, wrong, and did I mention the info is often wrong? Some books have some good info in them, but much of the info given is just plain wrong. Tortoise care has advanced tremendously in the last 10 years. Many of the old-timers have not kept up and are still repeating and teaching the old wrong info that I originally learned more than 30 years ago. Many of these same old timers vehemently argue with me and others about many of these points, but they have no experience with the new info, and have never done side-by-side experiments to see the difference. I did it "their" way for two decades. Nothing but failure. For the last 10 years, I've been researching and experimenting to find better ways of doing things. Many members here have also done their own experiments and we've all been sharing and learning from each other. These old timers have never tried some of these things that we espouse here, so their arguments don't hold water. I've done it their way. They've never done it my way. Sorting the good info from the bad can be a challenge. Each side can sound so convincing. Each side will tell you how long they've been doing it their way and how well it works. This is a big challenge and a big dilemma for many newer keepers. Who to listen to? In time, it becomes more apparent, but its tough early on.
 

Diane Berner

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Sometimes when I try to help, some people think I'm a big jerk. Maybe its the lack of tone from the typed word, or maybe I'm just bad at diplomacy and sugar coating things? Either way, I mean well, so I'm glad when people aren't offended.

Fire ants need to be eradicated. @ZEROPILOT has suggested good tips for that in the past, so let's see if we can get his help on this here. He's in FL, so fire ants are a constant problem there.

Raccoons and other predators are not a problem for a tortoise as large as yours that is safely locked away in its heated night box each night. Every night I make sure the tortoises are in their boxes and latch the doors shut. Every morning, I unlatch and drop open each door.

They eat sticks and rocks when there are dietary deficiencies or imbalances. Do you feed mostly grocery store greens? That will do it. Try adding some more weeds, leaves, flowers and plants of the right types. I avoid grocery store foods when possible. If you must use grocery store foods, favor endive and escarole are your mainstays. Use arugula, cilantro, dandelion greens, collard greens, turnip greens, mustard greens and more for variety. Also go online and order up some "MinerAll" from a company called "Sticky Tongue Farms". To be clear, this isn't a calcium deficiency, so adding calcium sometimes makes it worse. MinerAll is a balanced mineral supplement and it usually stops the stick and rock eating behavior within a week or two.

Hard ground is not a problem for tortoises. They can dig in ground so hard that my pick axe makes sparks when I hit it. We have ground so hard here that the blade of my shovel just bends when I jump on it, instead of penetrating the ground. Females empty their bladder reserves to help soften up the ground where they want to dig too. I wouldn't worry too much about that, but you can always go around and break up the ground and add some better dirt to a few areas around the enclosure. You'd be surprised how easily they can dig down and how far.

Yes on the x-ray. This is the only way to know how serious of a problem we are dealing with. Some people can also palpate the tortoise and feel foe eggs manually. I don't trust that method and don't use it myself. If you feel an egg, hey, that's great. Not feeling an egg though, means that you just didn't find one from the outside. Doesn't mean they aren't in there.
I will try leaving her outside in the future but right now it's ranging from the 40's to low 60's 70's durin the day. I think that' s too cold to be outdoors right now. Let me know what you think. Also, she's been on Miner-All for years and still does the stick and white rock eating. I do give her spring mix with a lot of arugula necause this is what she will eat. She doesn't like other types of greens even though they've been offered many times. She primarily eats fruits and sweet potatoes with her greens. I know I can mix banana with greens to get her to eat them so maybe I'll try that again.
 

Yvonne G

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You don't sound mean or harsh. I, like many others, got a tortoise and have not planned for how big it gets and it's needs in a situation like this. There's many reasons why the tortoise is not outside. Fire ants and Racoons to start. The tortoise also eats rocks and sticks when outside. This can't be good for it. I have a way of making a 15×8 foot enclosure outside. The ground is hard here with little rain, although we had some yesterday. There would be no way this tortoise could dig an 18" deep hole in the soil here. Do you suggest I just put her outside with some soft soil and hope she uses it? I will take her to the vet for some x-rays. I'm sure I'm not the only one this situation has happened to. I just need aome guidance. I don't want to lose my tortoise.
RF and YF tortoises eat seeds on a regular basis. In captivity, if the keeper doesn't include the seeds when feeding, for example, canteloup, papaya, etc, then the tortoise will eat pebbles and whatever else it can find.
 

Diane Berner

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RF and YF tortoises eat seeds on a regular basis. In captivity, if the keeper doesn't include the seeds when feeding, for example, canteloup, papaya, etc, then the tortoise will eat pebbles and whatever else it can find.
She gets fresh figs when in season. I will try papaya, which she has refused to eat, and cantaloupe if I can get a ripe one or ripen it at home. She has eaten cantaloupe in the in the past but never seeds from it.
 

ZEROPILOT

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As far as fire ants are concerned.
I have a dedicated outdoors enclosure and my animals only rarely roam outside of it. So I treat my yard with Amdro fire ant granules outside of the enclosure and inside I hide glass jars (Mason jars...Mayonaise jars) with baits inside. These glass jars have screw on metal lids. I poke holes in the metal lids and lay the jars on their sides out of sight.
They are effective and semi waterproof. There's always a lot of rain here in sunny Florida.
It also keeps the poison away from your tortoises and you can add attractant to the poison bait. Cooked meat for the fire ants. (Kentucky fried chicken skin works GREAT) And Jelly for sugar eaters. They all come for lunch.....And die.
Initially, I also sprayed the outside wood of the enclosure with liquid Fire ant killer. But I stopped that practice. I believe that is just overkill.
It has been so effective that right this moment, I don't have any bait in the yard or in the pens.
I have a Fire ant free property.
And that's pretty amazing.
 
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