Our Tortoise Died Suddenly, Not Sure Why.

JonM

New Member
Joined
Apr 7, 2020
Messages
7
Location (City and/or State)
Devon, UK
We had a captive bred Spur-Thighed female called Wanda for 30 years since she was 3 years old. She got sick on sunday and died at the vets a few hours later. We are heartbroken as the day before she seemed the picture of health, marching around and following me round the garden, eating and exploring the garden and yard at our new house.

We are not fully sure why she died and as it was too late when she got to the vets she didn't have any diagnostics done like x-rays etc so we aren't 100% sure. The situation and symptoms made us think it was either sudden acute pneumonia or a plant she ate that might be toxic but some of the symptoms didn't fit any one explanation.

The symptoms she had was muscous from her mouth initially, then later she started gripping her neck with her front legs as though it was uncomfortable then later she started raising her rear end and writhing from side to side and pushing her head in like she was straining but just did one pee but kept up this behaviour and slowly getting weaker and sicker. Before she got too sick she had tried to eat a dandelion leaf but then looked uncomfortable as though her throat was sore. We had trouble getting rapid vet care as we are new to the area and it was sunday and with Corona virus lockdown we had a few desperate hours trying to get help.

The reason I mentioned the possibility of toxin when she was exploring the garden she started eating a plant we didn't recognise. We pulled her off it immediately so she only got a couple of small leaves, later on we tried to identify the plant and think it might be a Japanese anemone which sounds like can cause internal irritation, but the vet felt the symptoms were too soon and the amount eaten not enough (vet we had wasn't the most experienced tortoise vet as he was self-isolating). The previous owners of the house had pets too and said they never used any poisons, weedkillers etc in the garden, only pulling weeds by hand. We moved in the autumn so really sure there was no source of chemicals in her food.

Her diet was dandelions, sowthistle and mix of other tortoise friendly garden weeds with romaine lettuce, watercress etc. She had had pneumonia many years ago but not so acute and recovered totally with no recurrence after treatment at the vets. She was kept outdoors of dry days and indoors at night and on wet or cold days, outside she had a shelter for rest and shade and a conservatory to keep warm in. At our previous house she had a purpose built large enclosure but at the new house was on a large fenced off area (around 8x8 feet in size) of the yard and allowed supervised walks in the garden regularly.

The only red flag with her health was she didn't wake up from hibernation at her usual time so we had to get her up. Initially for a day we didn't allow her in too warm an area so she could wake up slowly then gradually warmed her up with a lukewarm bath, then a lamp the next day. She started eating enthusiastically and peeing and pooing ok so and seemed healthy so thought she had come through hibernation ok . She hibernated double boxed in the garage. The previous house she was in the basement which prob was drier, temperature was similar in both houses. We did wonder if the garage was too damp but not sure as our monitor failed.

The only other factor in her health is the breeder didn't get her early diet right and she had slightly deformed shell and an undershot beak that despite some trimming and cosmetic work at the vets was never totally corrected. The beak never stopped her though and she was a very enthusiastic eater indeed. You could tell the diet she had with us was better as the new growth over the past 30 years was nice and symmetrical.

Anyway, the big puzzle was the raising of her back end, straining and writhing behavior. If it was pneumonia why would she do that? If egg bound etc why would she have mucous from her mouth? It didn't add up unless the vet was wrong and it was the plant she ate?

We are puzzled and very sad. We had just started ordering seeds to grow more food for her and planning to build her new enclosure while we are locked down due to the corona virus and enjoy spending time with her but suddenly she was gone and we are puzzled why and if we did anything wrong that led to the death of our dear tortoise friend.
 

Tom

The Dog Trainer
10 Year Member!
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Jan 9, 2010
Messages
63,265
Location (City and/or State)
Southern California
SO sorry. 30 years... That is a long time with a pet.

It sounds to me like poisoning. So many people allow their tortoises to have access to poisonous, or unknown plants, and most of the time the tortoises ignore the bad stuff. This leads some people to the mistaken conclusion that: "Tortoises have survived for millions of years without our help. They know what not to eat." Wrong. I work with a lot of exotic vets because of my job, and sadly, this happens all the time. I don't think people hear about it much because few people pay for a necropsy to determine a positive COD, and no one tells their friends and family about sad pet deaths. I don't. I don't like to bring it up. Anyhow, I see many cases of tortoise getting sick and usually dying from ingestion of poisonous plants every year through my vet friends.

Lesson for everyone: Don't let your tortoise have access to any plants that you are not 100% sure of, and watch out for new things popping up in your outdoor enclosures. I had deadly nightshade pop up in one of my enclosures this year. No idea where it came from and luckily they didn't eat it before I pulled it out and threw it in the garbage.
 

JonM

New Member
Joined
Apr 7, 2020
Messages
7
Location (City and/or State)
Devon, UK
Thanks for your replies. Yes I think we got complacent. I think even if it wasn't poisoning we should have been more careful.

The bit that made us think it might be pneumonia was the amount of mucus she produced and that she had her beak open and later on struggled to breathe and often would snort a bubble then breathe a bit better. Very confusing set of symptoms, so we may never truly know, but the message to all owners is take no chances with any plants you are 100% sure of.
 

Randy Micheals

Active Member
Tortoise Club
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Jun 8, 2019
Messages
202
Location (City and/or State)
British columbia
Wow sorry to hear :(... that is heartbreaking to lose a lifelong companion like that. My condolances.
 

Sa Ga

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 19, 2019
Messages
653
Location (City and/or State)
MN
We had a captive bred Spur-Thighed female called Wanda for 30 years since she was 3 years old. She got sick on sunday and died at the vets a few hours later. We are heartbroken as the day before she seemed the picture of health, marching around and following me round the garden, eating and exploring the garden and yard at our new house.

We are not fully sure why she died and as it was too late when she got to the vets she didn't have any diagnostics done like x-rays etc so we aren't 100% sure. The situation and symptoms made us think it was either sudden acute pneumonia or a plant she ate that might be toxic but some of the symptoms didn't fit any one explanation.

The symptoms she had was muscous from her mouth initially, then later she started gripping her neck with her front legs as though it was uncomfortable then later she started raising her rear end and writhing from side to side and pushing her head in like she was straining but just did one pee but kept up this behaviour and slowly getting weaker and sicker. Before she got too sick she had tried to eat a dandelion leaf but then looked uncomfortable as though her throat was sore. We had trouble getting rapid vet care as we are new to the area and it was sunday and with Corona virus lockdown we had a few desperate hours trying to get help.

The reason I mentioned the possibility of toxin when she was exploring the garden she started eating a plant we didn't recognise. We pulled her off it immediately so she only got a couple of small leaves, later on we tried to identify the plant and think it might be a Japanese anemone which sounds like can cause internal irritation, but the vet felt the symptoms were too soon and the amount eaten not enough (vet we had wasn't the most experienced tortoise vet as he was self-isolating). The previous owners of the house had pets too and said they never used any poisons, weedkillers etc in the garden, only pulling weeds by hand. We moved in the autumn so really sure there was no source of chemicals in her food.

Her diet was dandelions, sowthistle and mix of other tortoise friendly garden weeds with romaine lettuce, watercress etc. She had had pneumonia many years ago but not so acute and recovered totally with no recurrence after treatment at the vets. She was kept outdoors of dry days and indoors at night and on wet or cold days, outside she had a shelter for rest and shade and a conservatory to keep warm in. At our previous house she had a purpose built large enclosure but at the new house was on a large fenced off area (around 8x8 feet in size) of the yard and allowed supervised walks in the garden regularly.

The only red flag with her health was she didn't wake up from hibernation at her usual time so we had to get her up. Initially for a day we didn't allow her in too warm an area so she could wake up slowly then gradually warmed her up with a lukewarm bath, then a lamp the next day. She started eating enthusiastically and peeing and pooing ok so and seemed healthy so thought she had come through hibernation ok . She hibernated double boxed in the garage. The previous house she was in the basement which prob was drier, temperature was similar in both houses. We did wonder if the garage was too damp but not sure as our monitor failed.

The only other factor in her health is the breeder didn't get her early diet right and she had slightly deformed shell and an undershot beak that despite some trimming and cosmetic work at the vets was never totally corrected. The beak never stopped her though and she was a very enthusiastic eater indeed. You could tell the diet she had with us was better as the new growth over the past 30 years was nice and symmetrical.

Anyway, the big puzzle was the raising of her back end, straining and writhing behavior. If it was pneumonia why would she do that? If egg bound etc why would she have mucous from her mouth? It didn't add up unless the vet was wrong and it was the plant she ate?

We are puzzled and very sad. We had just started ordering seeds to grow more food for her and planning to build her new enclosure while we are locked down due to the corona virus and enjoy spending time with her but suddenly she was gone and we are puzzled why and if we did anything wrong that led to the death of our dear tortoise friend.
I am SO sorry for your loss. Reptiles seem esp good at rollercoastering--great one minute, sick the next. ? You clearly gave her lots of love and care, and for that, she was of the lucky few.

I do hope that you will consider blessing a new little critter w/ a loving home once your heart heals.
 

Sa Ga

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 19, 2019
Messages
653
Location (City and/or State)
MN
SO sorry. 30 years... That is a long time with a pet.

It sounds to me like poisoning. So many people allow their tortoises to have access to poisonous, or unknown plants, and most of the time the tortoises ignore the bad stuff. This leads some people to the mistaken conclusion that: "Tortoises have survived for millions of years without our help. They know what not to eat." Wrong. I work with a lot of exotic vets because of my job, and sadly, this happens all the time. I don't think people hear about it much because few people pay for a necropsy to determine a positive COD, and no one tells their friends and family about sad pet deaths. I don't. I don't like to bring it up. Anyhow, I see many cases of tortoise getting sick and usually dying from ingestion of poisonous plants every year through my vet friends.

Lesson for everyone: Don't let your tortoise have access to any plants that you are not 100% sure of, and watch out for new things popping up in your outdoor enclosures. I had deadly nightshade pop up in one of my enclosures this year. No idea where it came from and luckily they didn't eat it before I pulled it out and threw it in the garbage.
people always assume because it's a "wild animal," it's wise to the ways of nature
I think by having pets. we know they are anything but. They eat wrong things, take nosedives of great distances, don't hibernate correctly, etc., and they die. We just always see the LIVING ones in nature, so we assume all is well always.

Animals are more or less a toddler--just smart enough to get into things and find that ONE thing they shouldn't touch. So deal w/ ur pets like a very young child and don't leave them unattended outside of their enclosures.and always examine an area thoroughly *before* allowing them to roam.
 

Quadro

Active Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2020
Messages
116
Location (City and/or State)
SC
This is very sad ? I am sorry you have to go through this . Hopefully you live and learn from this and get another baby thanks for sharing sometimes we all let our guards down at one time or another and this reminds us you can never be too careful!
 

JonM

New Member
Joined
Apr 7, 2020
Messages
7
Location (City and/or State)
Devon, UK
Thanks the toughest part is not really knowing and seeing our friend suffer so much on that final day.

Those of you who felt it was poisoning did you feel that based on the symptoms or just because Wanda had nibbled the leaves of a plant we weren't 100% sure of? I attach some pics of the plant that might be the culprit, both to see if anyone can ID (we think maybe anemone?) and so others can keep their shelled friends away from anything similar. The shocking thing is she ate so little of it. So if you move house, check every single plant when you move in.

We do have another tort, a male Russian, who is less trouble on the food front (although we will be super careful) but he is an escape artist so we have learned he needs a slippery sided unclimbable enclosure. We may replace Wanda one day but we will see, like any long term pet she was special to us.

Plant.JPGPlantCloseup.JPG
 

Ink

Well-Known Member
Tortoise Club
5 Year Member
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Jun 10, 2016
Messages
2,453
Location (City and/or State)
Virginia
I'm sorry for your loss to you and your family.
 

Maro2Bear

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Joined
May 29, 2014
Messages
14,712
Location (City and/or State)
Glenn Dale, Maryland, USA
Thanks the toughest part is not really knowing and seeing our friend suffer so much on that final day.

Those of you who felt it was poisoning did you feel that based on the symptoms or just because Wanda had nibbled the leaves of a plant we weren't 100% sure of? I attach some pics of the plant that might be the culprit, both to see if anyone can ID (we think maybe anemone?) and so others can keep their shelled friends away from anything similar. The shocking thing is she ate so little of it. So if you move house, check every single plant when you move in.

We do have another tort, a male Russian, who is less trouble on the food front (although we will be super careful) but he is an escape artist so we have learned he needs a slippery sided unclimbable enclosure. We may replace Wanda one day but we will see, like any long term pet she was special to us.

Maybe @JoesMum can help ID that plant for you. She’s from the Kent area If i recall correctly, and a full of both plant & tortoise knowledge.
 

DesertGirl

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Joined
Dec 5, 2017
Messages
366
Location (City and/or State)
Fabulous Las Vegas, NV
We had a captive bred Spur-Thighed female called Wanda for 30 years since she was 3 years old. She got sick on sunday and died at the vets a few hours later. We are heartbroken as the day before she seemed the picture of health, marching around and following me round the garden, eating and exploring the garden and yard at our new house.

We are not fully sure why she died and as it was too late when she got to the vets she didn't have any diagnostics done like x-rays etc so we aren't 100% sure. The situation and symptoms made us think it was either sudden acute pneumonia or a plant she ate that might be toxic but some of the symptoms didn't fit any one explanation.

The symptoms she had was muscous from her mouth initially, then later she started gripping her neck with her front legs as though it was uncomfortable then later she started raising her rear end and writhing from side to side and pushing her head in like she was straining but just did one pee but kept up this behaviour and slowly getting weaker and sicker. Before she got too sick she had tried to eat a dandelion leaf but then looked uncomfortable as though her throat was sore. We had trouble getting rapid vet care as we are new to the area and it was sunday and with Corona virus lockdown we had a few desperate hours trying to get help.

The reason I mentioned the possibility of toxin when she was exploring the garden she started eating a plant we didn't recognise. We pulled her off it immediately so she only got a couple of small leaves, later on we tried to identify the plant and think it might be a Japanese anemone which sounds like can cause internal irritation, but the vet felt the symptoms were too soon and the amount eaten not enough (vet we had wasn't the most experienced tortoise vet as he was self-isolating). The previous owners of the house had pets too and said they never used any poisons, weedkillers etc in the garden, only pulling weeds by hand. We moved in the autumn so really sure there was no source of chemicals in her food.

Her diet was dandelions, sowthistle and mix of other tortoise friendly garden weeds with romaine lettuce, watercress etc. She had had pneumonia many years ago but not so acute and recovered totally with no recurrence after treatment at the vets. She was kept outdoors of dry days and indoors at night and on wet or cold days, outside she had a shelter for rest and shade and a conservatory to keep warm in. At our previous house she had a purpose built large enclosure but at the new house was on a large fenced off area (around 8x8 feet in size) of the yard and allowed supervised walks in the garden regularly.

The only red flag with her health was she didn't wake up from hibernation at her usual time so we had to get her up. Initially for a day we didn't allow her in too warm an area so she could wake up slowly then gradually warmed her up with a lukewarm bath, then a lamp the next day. She started eating enthusiastically and peeing and pooing ok so and seemed healthy so thought she had come through hibernation ok . She hibernated double boxed in the garage. The previous house she was in the basement which prob was drier, temperature was similar in both houses. We did wonder if the garage was too damp but not sure as our monitor failed.

The only other factor in her health is the breeder didn't get her early diet right and she had slightly deformed shell and an undershot beak that despite some trimming and cosmetic work at the vets was never totally corrected. The beak never stopped her though and she was a very enthusiastic eater indeed. You could tell the diet she had with us was better as the new growth over the past 30 years was nice and symmetrical.

Anyway, the big puzzle was the raising of her back end, straining and writhing behavior. If it was pneumonia why would she do that? If egg bound etc why would she have mucous from her mouth? It didn't add up unless the vet was wrong and it was the plant she ate?

We are puzzled and very sad. We had just started ordering seeds to grow more food for her and planning to build her new enclosure while we are locked down due to the corona virus and enjoy spending time with her but suddenly she was gone and we are puzzled why and if we did anything wrong that led to the death of our dear tortoise friend.
How heartbreaking for you. 30 years. My Persian cat died a few years ago at 27 yo. I still cry if I think about her. Our sweet desert tort came to us completely unexpectedly after the cat passed on. The tort saved our lives from sadness. Please don’t beat yourself up. Thirty years? You certainly did all the right things! I am so sorry for the loss of your little shelly friend.
 

Archie's mom

Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2019
Messages
36
Location (City and/or State)
Groveland ny
So so sorry.....some thoughts I had....just curious are you in a place where 5G was just turned on....also are you on a well, could maybe be something in the water or is the yard really wet and have possible run off? Please don't let guilt consume you your grief of loosing a part of your family is hard enough for your heart to carry. Will keep you in my thoughts....again so sorry
 

JonM

New Member
Joined
Apr 7, 2020
Messages
7
Location (City and/or State)
Devon, UK
Thanks everyone. Had two people ID the plant we thought was the cause as Herb Bennet which is actually good safe tortoise food, so may not be poisoning afterall, we will know for certain when it flowers. So what on earth happened we do not know was very quick, usually with tortoises you have some warning, like off food etc and at least several hours or even a day to assess before calling vet but this was so quick and severe with no warning at all.

As for 5G we are not near any masts nor do we use it. No wells and the yard is dry and we kept her indoors if wet anyway, recent weather has been very dry.
 

New Posts

Top