New Leopard hatchlings any advice appreciated
- Thread starter Peliroja32
- Start date
Peliroja32
Well-Known Member
For their well being separate them ASAP. They don't do well in pairs
Peliroja32
Well-Known Member
Yeah i heard that after i ordered them, im working on another enclosure and have more lamps and stuff on the way
Here is all the care info:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/beginner-mistakes.45180/
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/how-to-raise-a-healthy-sulcata-or-leopard-version-2-0.79895/
Skip all the text and scroll down to the food list:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/for-those-who-have-a-young-sulcata.76744/
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/beginner-mistakes.45180/
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/how-to-raise-a-healthy-sulcata-or-leopard-version-2-0.79895/
Skip all the text and scroll down to the food list:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/for-those-who-have-a-young-sulcata.76744/
For their well being separate them ASAP. They don't do well in pairs
I disagree. I know this isn't going to earn me any points here, but I'm not exactly trying to run for prom king either. Nevertheless, I've found based on my experience that leopards do fine together, at least while small.
I have read so many opinions about how it's bad to house them together and I'd like offer mine now.
I am aware that many members on TFO believe it's not good to house multiple tortoises together, and maybe that's true for some species, but I've been housing multiple together and they are actually doing better than when alone.
Are there any actual documented studies around these thoughts?
I will state, my personal experience is on the order of 6 months and with hatchlings, so keep that in perspective.
When did you get that pair? You haven't been a member for 6 months and the first month you had a sick one that we helped you with.
Careful with your assumptions, dude. Rest assured no help I've ever received has originated from you. I've read many of these opinions and I have some of my own (what a concept) which happen to be also be shared by many others. I've clearly stated my source and I'm asking about actual studies that others are basing their opinions from.
If you want to attack someone, go find someone and some place else.
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At any rate, Congrats @Peliroja32 on your new baby
The links @Tom has provided above are what myself and many others refer to and are very helpful. Make them a sticky as you will reference them for a while.Sorry for the quasi-thread-jack. You'll find many helpful members here.
Careful with your assumptions, dude. Rest assured no help I've ever received has originated from you. I've read many of these opinions and I have some of my own (what a concept) which happen to be also be shared by many others. I've clearly stated my source and I'm asking about actual studies that others are basing their opinions from.
If you want to attack someone, go find someone and some place else.
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At any rate, Congrats @Peliroja32 on your new baby
Sorry for the quasi-thread-jack. You'll find many helpful members here.
. Oh ok that was one of many PALhttp://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/new-member-new-south-african.149946/
You might wanna read this thread, hmmmmmm
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Hi
In this forum section you will find multiple examples how tortoise housed in pairs didn't do well. Probably that's not the case in 100% of time but even if it's 30 or 20% it's better to be safe then sorry.
I can understand this. Seems more of a case by case scenario. Thanks for the clarification
Not sure why you feel the need to personally attack me.
Forum Admins, please let me know what actions I need to take to address this member's actions. This forum exists to provide a free resource to tortoise keepers around the world and should not be a place where one is publicly attacked for any reason, regardless of how tenured one's account is.
Thanks
I'm not attacking you I'm just pointing out the experience and then you were giving advice about keeping pairs that is not recommended. This not worth my time to get in a match with you. What my point is to the OP please understand many bad things can happen from housing them in pairs and to be careful when taking advice from someone new to the hobby.
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Hi Ramsey, how long have you been keeping your leopards together and how many are you keeping together? Many keepers here support keeping groups together - that seems to even help some hatchlings thrive. Keeping pairs is generally what is discouraged since group dynamics vs pair dynamics are quite different.
Are you keeping two together or three or more together? And how long have they been together (it looks like you had just one back in February, if I am reading your threads correctly)?
This isn't what we've been saying at all. We're talking about two, TWO, a pair, or TWO tortoises being kept together. Many of us have MULTIPLE tortoises together, but when you have the pair dynamic it's when you run into trouble.
I don't see Craig's posts as an attack. Just conversation and pointing out the obvious. Your opinion, your experience and you, are all welcome here, but people reading should have the benefit of understanding where each of us is coming from and what our assertions are based upon.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but your assertions appear to be based on a single pair of leopards over a span of a few months. That is what you stated in your post, and I appreciate that. But because they are still alive, does not mean there is not a problem and that your tortoises are not suffering from chronic stress. How much better might they be doing if they were housed individually or as part of a group? I suspect you will realize the validity of what we are saying over the next few months.
What I would like to point out is the fact that some of the people you are disagreeing with have raised hundreds or thousands of tortoises over a period of several decades. It is fine to disagree. I disagree with people who have been keeping and breeding tortoises far longer than me all the time, but I base that disagreement on a vast amount of experience that is full of both failures and successes. I've kept them wrong. I've kept them right. I've kept them every which way in between. I've experimented with all sorts of variables and with many species, over three and a half decades.
So share your observations. Share your thoughts and ideas. But please don't take it as a personal attack when someone points out your limited experience in comparison to the people who you are disagreeing with. I have no problem with you stating that you've been keeping your baby leopards as a pair for a few months and you have not observed a problem due to the practice. But that is not enough experience to step up and refute the assertions of veteran keepers with a lot more experience than you.
I hope this makes sense. They typed word just doesn't convey tone very well. This is not an attack or insult. Just an explanation of a point of view and some light tortoise conversation.
Peliroja32
Well-Known Member
Ok i have another question and might make me sound a bit like a dummy but is there some kind of picture guide as to what is ok for tort to eat as far as wild vegetation? Also i may have missed it but i dont recall seing anything about if something like cilantro would be ok.....not exactly cilantro but i have "papalo" which is similar, i was wondering if that would be something they would/could eat
Hi Tom,
Thanks for taking the time to put together this intelligible response.
I only disagree with you on one area:
The member's posts were clear personal attacks, challenging my credibility and exploiting a previous unfortunate scenario where I received a sick tortoise. Then he posts screenshots and links. To show what? That I failed at keeping a baby who showed up sick from day one? Any other items that you want to try and shame people about? Does a members account have to be active for a specific number of days, months years before one can share an opinion? Get a life dude (to said member).
Thanks!
Correct, all I am saying is that many people make broad statements that housing a pair or multiple is terrible. Although this may be true given other factors like space/area, sex, size, age etc, I don't think it's as broad of a message as many lend to believe. This is based on my limited personal experience but also having interviewed many vets (who also keep leopards) regarding the matter and a few of the keepers at the San Diego Zoo.
Agreed and highly respected and appreciated. I look to many of these vets for advice and feedback. This doesn't mean a person isn't capable of having their own experiences and learning from them and commenting.
Not refuting, just stating that there are other thoughts and opinions, just like with many other factors. All sorts of species (including our own) may have potential issues if/when housed together. Especially given factors as I stated above. I'm sure everybody reading this has been in a room with another person they'd rather not be with. Does that mean all humans should be kept separately?
Makes complete sense and this isn't considered an attack at all. I clearly stated my experience and stance which you saw.
I feel bad for the OP and if any further debate around this is desired, perhaps it should be moved to the proper area? I personally don't have much more to state on the matter and the moment I start seeing any issues/concerns with my tortoises, I will separate them to a different enclosure which is fully set up.
Thanks for taking the time to put together this intelligible response.
I only disagree with you on one area:
The member's posts were clear personal attacks, challenging my credibility and exploiting a previous unfortunate scenario where I received a sick tortoise. Then he posts screenshots and links. To show what? That I failed at keeping a baby who showed up sick from day one? Any other items that you want to try and shame people about? Does a members account have to be active for a specific number of days, months years before one can share an opinion? Get a life dude (to said member).
Thanks!Correct, all I am saying is that many people make broad statements that housing a pair or multiple is terrible. Although this may be true given other factors like space/area, sex, size, age etc, I don't think it's as broad of a message as many lend to believe. This is based on my limited personal experience but also having interviewed many vets (who also keep leopards) regarding the matter and a few of the keepers at the San Diego Zoo.
Agreed and highly respected and appreciated. I look to many of these vets for advice and feedback. This doesn't mean a person isn't capable of having their own experiences and learning from them and commenting.
Not refuting, just stating that there are other thoughts and opinions, just like with many other factors. All sorts of species (including our own) may have potential issues if/when housed together. Especially given factors as I stated above. I'm sure everybody reading this has been in a room with another person they'd rather not be with. Does that mean all humans should be kept separately?
Makes complete sense
and this isn't considered an attack at all. I clearly stated my experience and stance which you saw.I feel bad for the OP and if any further debate around this is desired, perhaps it should be moved to the proper area? I personally don't have much more to state on the matter and the moment I start seeing any issues/concerns with my tortoises, I will separate them to a different enclosure which is fully set up.
Yes you can
http://www.thetortoisetable.org.uk/
On this page you can find loads of different weeds/trees/flowers with a picture/common name/latin name and an information if they are safe to feed
This is the place to ask, good luck!
(....)Not refuting, just stating that there are other thoughts and opinions, just like with many other factors. All sorts of species (including our own) may have potential issues if/when housed together. Especially given factors as I stated above. I'm sure everybody reading this has been in a room with another person they'd rather not be with. Does that mean all humans should be kept separately(...)
@Ramsey
Animals are running on instincts. Humans, at least some of them run on intelligence. That is why we educate keepers not torts. Different rules apply.
@Ramsey
Animals are running on instincts. Humans, at least some of them run on intelligence. That is why we educate keepers not torts. Different rules apply.
