Tortoise Nursery Room

theguy67 · Jun 16, 2017

My plan may be working!

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The grass and tortoise seed is growing well, although I am still switching to T8 Fluorescent this weekend as I believe that will produce the best growth.

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Some of the plants do appear to be, somewhat, light deficient; although, they look a lot better than I assumed they would at this point.

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Oxalis · Jun 16, 2017

theguy67 said:
My plan may be working!

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The grass and tortoise seed is growing well, although I am still switching to T8 Fluorescent this weekend as I believe that will produce the best growth.

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Some of the plants do appear to be, somewhat, light deficient; although, they look a lot better than I assumed they would at this point.
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Thanks for your experiments! I really need to start looking into the lighting for our new Russian enclosure.

theguy67 · Jun 17, 2017

I switched to fluorescents today and the coverage looks a lot better. The light is in the3- 5000k range too, so it's much warmer. I put in 3 lamps. 2 on the left and 1 on the right. Once the left side is mature and ready, I will remove the divider and add a 4th lamp if deemed necessary.

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Humidity is up!

Oxalis · Jun 18, 2017

theguy67 said:
I switched to fluorescents today and the coverage looks a lot better. The light is in the3- 5000k range too, so it's much warmer. I put in 3 lamps. 2 on the left and 1 on the right. Once the left side is mature and ready, I will remove the divider and add a 4th lamp if deemed necessary.

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Humidity is up!

That definitely looks a lot bright. Have you noticed your tort is more active since that change as well?

theguy67 · Jun 18, 2017

Oxalis said:
That definitely looks a lot bright. Have you noticed your tort is more active since that change as well?

They're a little more active, especially with a lamp on their side. Since its summer they do get outside time, but I still need to add their UV lamp.

It seems to be more light, but not as intense. This is due to the florescent spreading the light more evenly. AND since there's more coverage, I was able to plant more seed. I'm also going to plant some seed in trays (grown outdoors) to be planted on the right side once the divider is removed.

The weeds will have to be reseeded, as I'm expecting those to be devoured. This experiment hinges on the Bermuda grass to become established, as you would see in a lawn. It is a fast growing, running grass, so I am hoping that once the rhizomes mature under the soil, it will be able to handle being nibbled on. The Bermuda in the adult's pen is just fine. They keep it cut short, but they also don't eat it all the way back.

IF this fails, I may look for a larger plant that is edible. One they can only trim the bottom branches, and hide under. Maybe some sort of rose or flowering plant? I know hibiscus would love the humidity. My plans would change from a grassy field, to more of a forest floor.

Oxalis · Jun 20, 2017

theguy67 said:
They're a little more active, especially with a lamp on their side. Since its summer they do get outside time, but I still need to add their UV lamp.

It seems to be more light, but not as intense. This is due to the florescent spreading the light more evenly. AND since there's more coverage, I was able to plant more seed. I'm also going to plant some seed in trays (grown outdoors) to be planted on the right side once the divider is removed.

The weeds will have to be reseeded, as I'm expecting those to be devoured. This experiment hinges on the Bermuda grass to become established, as you would see in a lawn. It is a fast growing, running grass, so I am hoping that once the rhizomes mature under the soil, it will be able to handle being nibbled on. The Bermuda in the adult's pen is just fine. They keep it cut short, but they also don't eat it all the way back.

IF this fails, I may look for a larger plant that is edible. One they can only trim the bottom branches, and hide under. Maybe some sort of rose or flowering plant? I know hibiscus would love the humidity. My plans would change from a grassy field, to more of a forest floor.

My hibiscus can be a slow grower here, mostly because Michigan is not the optimal climate for this tropics lover. But we do have a native species here nonetheless. I don't have experience growing it indoors so more power to you!

It may be a much quicker grower with more light, warmth, and humidity. Remember to watch out for the thorns on the rose!

theguy67 · Jun 30, 2017

Considering the rapid plant growth and his small size, I've decided to move my 6 week old into the planted side of the "experiment enclosure". I think it's safe to conclude this to be a success for keeping hatchlings on a indoor grazing "field" that can support their demands. This replicates how the adults are kept outdoors, but with higher humidity and stable temps. It will be several weeks before I can put the yearlings on the grass as I'm still waiting for the roots to mature.

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janevicki · Jun 30, 2017

theguy67 said:
Enclosure is finished. It's holding nicely at 83, with just over 80% humidity.

View attachment 209449

The other side is identical, just not lit, as I only have 2 LED lamps. The room is too narrow for a full shot.

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I'm currently using LEDs, but I may forego them and use fluorescent. It seems they are still superior to LED for growing plants, at least in cost and electricity. Due to LEDs poor spread I would need many more fixtures. Also, my current lights are too far on the blue side of the spectrum. It would be much easier to cover the entire enclosure with 2, 4ft fluorescent fixtures rather than half a dozen LED units ( not to mention that would be harsh on the little ones eyes).

I just moved them in, so I still need to add their burrow/humid hide, but they were certainly checking everything out. I currently have a divider to keep them away from the grass for now. I just removed it for pictures.

The goal of growing and maintaining a turf for 24/7 grazing is mainly an experiment. I will update on this thread if it is successful, plus any other remodels in the room as I continue.

LOL It looks like your torts are on a different planet with the Blue LED lighting you have in their new home. Keeping with the Star Wars theme!

theguy67 · Jul 1, 2017

janevicki said:
LOL It looks like your torts are on a different planet with the Blue LED lighting you have in their new home. Keeping with the Star Wars theme!

Lol, yes. I wanted to give them a try since I had them left over from my 55 gallon reef tank. I was optimistic, but quickly realized they wouldn't work.

theguy67 · Nov 25, 2017

It’s been a while, but I’m still trying to get my indoor grazing enclosure going...

The grass has gotten much thicker and more mature. I’ve continued to move my efforts toward the left as it all grows. Some of it may seem dead, his that’s just some die off. The grass was up to the light but I cut it all back to stimulate more shoots to come up. I think mid December I will be ready to put the two larger 2 year olds on it. My hatchling from last summer has been in there from the start.

Yvonne G · Nov 26, 2017

Nice. I truly love the shelf-type enclosures. I have one in each tortoise shed, but mine aren't nearly as nice as yours. I'm surprised you were able to get anything to grow while the enclosure was inhabited. Those darned tortoises trample everything!

Markw84 · Nov 26, 2017

@theguy67 Just saw this thread and love your "experiment". A few comments about growing grass indoors:

The "boring/nerd explaination = The red end of the spectrum is helpful in getting new growth and plants to sprout - chlorophyll-b peaks highest here. But plants will often look thin and straggly if this is the main lighting. Thicker blade development will be encouraged by bluer light. Light in the 400-500nm range is used for active photosynthesis with more chlorophyll-a peaking here. As a result, your commercially available grow light are weighted towards a spectrum balance of both 400-500nm light along with 650-700nm light.

SO... adding a bit more 5500-6000K fluorescents or LEDs will help the vigor and thickness of your plants. You may also find adding a good UVB light as you intend to do will also help with this.

theguy67 · Nov 26, 2017

Yvonne G said:
Nice. I truly love the shelf-type enclosures. I have one in each tortoise shed, but mine aren't nearly as nice as yours. I'm surprised you were able to get anything to grow while the enclosure was inhabited. Those darned tortoises trample everything!

Thanks! Grass is very forgiving of being trampled on, but tortoises love new sprouts. I eventually pulled out the weeds and put up a divider so the grass could grow. The 2 older "babies" are on the other side of the board at the end of the enclosure. The hatchling can hardly do any damage to more mature plants, although he can still wipe out an entire plot of seedlings.

Oh and by the way. Some of the grass on the far end came from the pack of seeds you sent me. Some of it is already producing seeds itself! Thanks!

theguy67 · Nov 26, 2017

Markw84 said:
@theguy67 Just saw this thread and love your "experiment". A few comments about growing grass indoors:

The "boring/nerd explaination = The red end of the spectrum is helpful in getting new growth and plants to sprout - chlorophyll-b peaks highest here. But plants will often look thin and straggly if this is the main lighting. Thicker blade development will be encouraged by bluer light. Light in the 400-500nm range is used for active photosynthesis with more chlorophyll-a peaking here. As a result, your commercially available grow light are weighted towards a spectrum balance of both 400-500nm light along with 650-700nm light.

SO... adding a bit more 5500-6000K fluorescents or LEDs will help the vigor and thickness of your plants. You may also find adding a good UVB light as you intend to do will also help with this.

I guess I had it backwards. Thought blue kick started chlorophyll b. Although to be fair, I did not do much reading up on it for this project. I just used my basic knowledge gained from growing coral. And my dad had some spare bulbs laying around, so I just snagged those.

Although my plant growth has exceeded my expectations (plants are a decent shade of green, fast growth, etc.), I see some of the stringy-ness you are referring to. I may swap out a few bulbs with more blue ones and see how that goes.

Anyone have ideas of a tortoise safe fertilizer? I need to replace the nutrients ( at some point) I am removing when I cut the grass back.

Markw84 · Nov 26, 2017

Not sure what type grass you are growing A shade tolerant one would do the best and in our enclosures a warm season grass. Zoysia probably fits that best and probably St Augustine

theguy67 · Nov 26, 2017

It is mostly Bermuda (like 99%). There's a few sprouts of another type, but I chose Bermuda because of how quickly it spreads and grows. It also likes warm/wet weather (you probably know all of this). It's not exactly shade tolerant, but I know my adults eat it. I may get some other types, and plant them in there for comparison. I also regularly plant from a mix of seeds.

I will take a before picture, next time I cut it all down. This is the first time I've really cut it all the way back. I could have gone further, but didn't want to push my luck.

Oxalis · Nov 28, 2017

theguy67 said:
Anyone have ideas of a tortoise safe fertilizer? I need to replace the nutrients ( at some point) I am removing when I cut the grass back.

That's really looking good!

I'm super jealous!

As for plant food, I make sure to compost only the best all-natural ingredients in my backyard; these are mostly:

used coffee grounds (unflavored),
used tea leaves (mostly plain teas),
banana peels (and other fruit/veggie pieces),
uneaten tortoise food (plant-based),
egg shells,
indoor plant trimmings,
yard leaves and small sticks,
used tortoise substrate (plant-based),
ashes from our backyard fire pit (we only burn untreated wood),
and of course, tortoise poopies! (as my tort is completely herbivorous)

I try to keep everything around my tortoise as natural/chemical-free as I possibly can. After a while, I'll rotate the soil so that the materials added most recently are at the bottom of the bin. This helps them to decompose faster. Then you have delicious, recycled compost, which is the perfect plant food!

Add it on top of the plant's soil or mix it in so the roots can get to it faster. This returns the much needed nutrients to the soil without the use of dangerous fertilizer chemicals.

After my Halloween gourds started to get moldy last year, I threw them in our compost bin and was really surprised at how fast they decomposed!! I further broke up the hard rinds with a shovel. Obviously the seeds are still around in the soil, some of which grew back the next year (I didn't mind), but I kind of sift through the compost to keep more "unprocessed" pieces in the bin. That way the stuff I bring back inside for the tortoise plants looks a little nicer.

Here's some good info on plant nutrients: http://homeguides.sfgate.com/nitrogen-phosphate-potash-plants-22325.html

theguy67 · Nov 29, 2017

Oxalis said:
That's really looking good! I'm super jealous!

As for plant food, I make sure to compost only the best all-natural ingredients in my backyard; these are mostly:

used coffee grounds (unflavored),

used tea leaves (mostly plain teas),

banana peels (and other fruit/veggie pieces),

uneaten tortoise food (plant-based),

egg shells,

indoor plant trimmings,

yard leaves and small sticks,

used tortoise substrate (plant-based),

ashes from our backyard fire pit (we only burn untreated wood),

and of course, tortoise poopies! (as my tort is completely herbivorous)

I try to keep everything around my tortoise as natural/chemical-free as I possibly can. After a while, I'll rotate the soil so that the materials added most recently are at the bottom of the bin. This helps them to decompose faster. Then you have delicious, recycled compost, which is the perfect plant food! Add it on top of the plant's soil or mix it in so the roots can get to it faster. This returns the much needed nutrients to the soil without the use of dangerous fertilizer chemicals.

After my Halloween gourds started to get moldy last year, I threw them in our compost bin and was really surprised at how fast they decomposed!! I further broke up the hard rinds with a shovel. Obviously the seeds are still around in the soil, some of which grew back the next year (I didn't mind), but I kind of sift through the compost to keep more "unprocessed" pieces in the bin. That way the stuff I bring back inside for the tortoise plants looks a little nicer.

Here's some good info on plant nutrients: http://homeguides.sfgate.com/nitrogen-phosphate-potash-plants-22325.html

Thanks. I'll look into composting. Sometimes I turn some clippings under the substrate. I also have some beetles and pill bugs in there. I do not know if they are staying, but I may get some red worms and add those too. I think they would be more inclined to remain in the soil.

Salspi · Nov 29, 2017

Very cool setup man

Oxalis · Nov 30, 2017

theguy67 said:
Thanks. I'll look into composting. Sometimes I turn some clippings under the substrate. I also have some beetles and pill bugs in there. I do not know if they are staying, but I may get some red worms and add those too. I think they would be more inclined to remain in the soil.

Rock on. I love nature's plant/mulch cycle.

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