New sulcata owner, advice needed.

Katherine Majauckas · Dec 12, 2017

Hi there, can I pick your brain? So my sulcata is outdoors and has a house with a heating element. I got a hard ground pad that I can set it to any particular temp. What do you suggest? I have it on 100 degrees. Gertrude stays on it when in the house even though I have it only on one side. Do I need a heating element for above? Do they eat less in the winter? He still comes out and sun's himself during the day but goes inside much earlier and didn't eat much the last couple days since the temps dropped. (Arizona, not very cold)
My desert tortoise and box turtles have been hibernating for about a month aready.

Thanks for any advice you can give me.
Katherine

Big Charlie · Dec 12, 2017

My tortoise eats less in the winter. What kind of heat pad are you using? 100F seems awfully hot. The heat pad I use doesn't get that hot so my tortoise can't be burned. I use a heating element in the ceiling too, so he is sandwiched in. I think it is wiser to have the heat not concentrated in one area. With just heat on the bottom, his top could still be cold while he could be too hot on his feet.

These are what I use: https://www.kanemfg.com/pet-heating/ on the bottom. I have the 27 x 48 double mat size.
On the ceiling I have this: http://www.reptilebasics.com/rbi-radiant-heat-panels
I'm using the 80 watt size.

I have a thermostat that I plug both into and set the temperature to 80 degrees. The probe for the thermostat hangs inside his house away from the heating elements, so it is the coolest spot.

Some people use small radiators.

The warmth you get depends on how well insulated your house is, its dimensions, and what kind of door you have.
How big is your sulcata?

Katherine Majauckas · Dec 12, 2017

Big Charlie said:
My tortoise eats less in the winter. What kind of heat pad are you using? 100F seems awfully hot. The heat pad I use doesn't get that hot so my tortoise can't be burned. I use a heating element in the ceiling too, so he is sandwiched in. I think it is wiser to have the heat not concentrated in one area. With just heat on the bottom, his top could still be cold while he could be too hot on his feet.

These are what I use: https://www.kanemfg.com/pet-heating/ on the bottom. I have the 27 x 48 double mat size.
On the ceiling I have this: http://www.reptilebasics.com/rbi-radiant-heat-panels
I'm using the 80 watt size.

I have a thermostat that I plug both into and set the temperature to 80 degrees. The probe for the thermostat hangs inside his house away from the heating elements, so it is the coolest spot.

Some people use small radiators.

The warmth you get depends on how well insulated your house is, its dimensions, and what kind of door you have.
How big is your sulcata?

He is about 3 times the size of my desert tortoise. I'm guessing 25-30#. He was found wandering near a busy street and no one has claimed him or been looking for him. I don't have a door on the house. Didn't even think of that. The heating pad is: Dog Palace Dog Floor Heater - Large

I guess I should go turn it down. Don't want to burn him. I'll get one of the roof heaters. Thank you. How far away from the shell should it be?

Sent from my XT1635-01 using Tortoise Forum mobile app

Tom · Dec 12, 2017

Katherine Majauckas said:
Hi there, can I pick your brain? So my sulcata is outdoors and has a house with a heating element. I got a hard ground pad that I can set it to any particular temp. What do you suggest? I have it on 100 degrees. Gertrude stays on it when in the house even though I have it only on one side. Do I need a heating element for above? Do they eat less in the winter? He still comes out and sun's himself during the day but goes inside much earlier and didn't eat much the last couple days since the temps dropped. (Arizona, not very cold)
My desert tortoise and box turtles have been hibernating for about a month aready.

Thanks for any advice you can give me.
Katherine

We need to know what kind of house. A pic might help too. Is it insulated and sealed? What kind of heating element and ground pad have you got?

Using heating elements above or below in a night house or shed with cold air can lead to burns and shell damage. The trick is to close the cold outside air off and heat the air inside the tortoises night shelter.

I can show some examples of you want. Let me know.

Katherine Majauckas · Dec 12, 2017

Tom said:
We need to know what kind of house. A pic might help too. Is it insulated and sealed? What kind of heating element and ground pad have you got?

Using heating elements above or below in a night house or shed with cold air can lead to burns and shell damage. The trick is to close the cold outside air off and heat the air inside the tortoises night shelter.

I can show some examples of you want. Let me know.

So the house is pretty big and I can make a door for it. I just put my hand between the pad and tortoise and it's not too hot at all. Seems really pleasant.

Katherine Majauckas · Dec 12, 2017

https://www.hayneedle.com/product/dogpalacedogfloorheater.cfm.

This is the heat pad I'm using

Tom · Dec 12, 2017

Katherine Majauckas said:
https://www.hayneedle.com/product/dogpalacedogfloorheater.cfm.

This is the heat pad I'm using

I do not know that product or how safe or reliable it is. Personally, I wouldn't use it. In the past, I've seen pics of heat mats like that after they've malfunctioned. Its not pretty. Kane mats have built in redundant safeties so they can't over heat. Another aspect of that style of heat mat is that you cannot put any sort of hay or bedding on top. It can cause hot spots and cause the pad to overheat.

You can make that house work if you spend some time insulating it, sealing all the gaps and cracks, and putting a door on it to keep the heat in and the cold out.

Here are some examples of boxes and heating strategies that work. My climate is similar to yours, so this should give you some ideas:
https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/another-night-box-thread.88966/
https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/my-best-night-box-design-yet.66867/
https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/double-door-night-box.129054/

Alaskamike · Dec 13, 2017

I agree completely with @Tom assessment. The Kane & Stanfield mats are made for piglets, heavy duty & cannot get over 100f due to an internal thermostat. They will not burn the feet or plastron. You use them without anything on top of them & are easy to clean.

Insulation is important. I use 1” styrofoam for ease of installation but any kind will work. You also need a flap door. I use a clear car floor mat cut to size ( got at Wallmart ).

When it really cold ( got down to 35f a few nights ago ) I pack a blanket over the door to hold in more heat. My box stayed at 80f that night.

Big Charlie · Dec 13, 2017

I originally used clear car mats as a door, but while my 100 pound tortoise had no trouble exiting the box through them, he wouldn't go back inside if they were down covering the doorway. So now he has strips that were designed for freezer doors. I bought them on ebay: https://www.ebay.com/itm/8-Plastic-...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649 He has no trouble going in and out with these, and they keep most of the heat inside. Once he is inside for the night, a sturdier door is closed to make sure it stays extra warm.

Katherine Majauckas · Dec 25, 2017

So I have insulated the walls and roof of the house. Door flaps to keep the heat in. I have a radiant heat panel being delivered in the next couple days.
So my question: at night I go out and find Gertrude at the other end of the turtle yard in the corner. Is it he just gets lazy or cold and doesn't want to go into the house or does he want the house moved to that side of the yard? Am I over thinking it and should I just go out every night and make sure he is in bed?

Big Charlie · Dec 25, 2017

Katherine Majauckas said:
So I have insulated the walls and roof of the house. Door flaps to keep the heat in. I have a radiant heat panel being delivered in the next couple days.
So my question: at night I go out and find Gertrude at the other end of the turtle yard in the corner. Is it he just gets lazy or cold and doesn't want to go into the house or does he want the house moved to that side of the yard? Am I over thinking it and should I just go out every night and make sure he is in bed?

It takes a long time for them to get into new routines. I wouldn't move the house. Tortoises tend to hunker down in corners when they get cold. For a long time after I built Charlie's house, occasionally he would end up in the farthest corner away from his house and I had to move him to his house. I think he just got too cold and didn't have the energy to make it home. He doesn't use the house in the summer and I have to get him back into the routine when the cold weather returns.

Katherine Majauckas · Dec 25, 2017

Big Charlie said:
It takes a long time for them to get into new routines. I wouldn't move the house. Tortoises tend to hunker down in corners when they get cold. For a long time after I built Charlie's house, occasionally he would end up in the farthest corner away from his house and I had to move him to his house. I think he just got too cold and didn't have the energy to make it home. He doesn't use the house in the summer and I have to get him back into the routine when the cold weather returns.

Thank you. I'll just go out each night and put him to bed. [emoji1]

Tom · Dec 26, 2017

Katherine Majauckas said:
So I have insulated the walls and roof of the house. Door flaps to keep the heat in. I have a radiant heat panel being delivered in the next couple days.
So my question: at night I go out and find Gertrude at the other end of the turtle yard in the corner. Is it he just gets lazy or cold and doesn't want to go into the house or does he want the house moved to that side of the yard? Am I over thinking it and should I just go out every night and make sure he is in bed?

I find the process goes faster if you move the house to where the tortoise seems to want to go at night. This isn't always practical or possible, so it also works to just put them in every night and shut the door. Then open the door each morning and let them out. Usually, after a couple of weeks of this, they figure it out and begin putting themselves away. I've had a few stubborn one that required additional measures, but all of them eventually get the idea.

And no, they cannot be trusted to know or do what is best for themselves in our foreign environment. They come form the tropics where its warm every night and hot every day. Our temperate climate with the cold nights and cooler winter days is not something they are adapted to deal with, even if some of them are able to survive it.

New sulcata owner, advice needed.

Katherine Majauckas

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Big Charlie

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