New Enclosure and Lighting Crisis

dwright27

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enclosure1.jpg enclosure2.jpg enclosure3.jpg enclosure4.jpg enclosure5.jpg Hi everyone! I finally got my tortoise's new enclosure delivered after several months of waiting. It's 6'x3', which I know is still below the minimum recommended dimensions, but that is the size I can accommodate in my home right now and it's a hell of a lot bigger than what she's been living in.

That said, I am running into a problem: I don't know what to do about lighting. The guy that built the enclosure put 3 hood lamps on the top, and I was hoping to find one bulb for UV, one for daytime heat (regular incandescent) and something for at night, which I might just leave empty, we'll see what happens.

I am pretty sure that the MVB that I am using currently is going to be far too hot in there, but I don't actually know?? If nothing else I feel like the fixtures he stuck on there aren't going to be sufficient for an MVB. And the compact fluorescent UV lights are all bad for their eyes, right? So what the heck do I do? I could get a grow light but I wasn't sure which one to get so I didn't buy one when I went to the hydroponics place.. (I did however get a butt-load of the clay balls for the bottom layer of the bioactive substrate I'll be using).

One other thing.. I need to line the bottom of the enclosure with something. It is sealed against water damage, but the three sections are not sealed together. I asked for it to be made in 3 pieces so I can move it if I need to. I haven't had any luck finding something that will work! I've seen people using pond liners, but I don't need a whole one.. and they're expensive! Same with the linoleum.. I don't know any contractors with scrap linoleum lying around or I would ask. If this wasn't going to be a bioactive setup I wouldn't be concerned about it.

enclosure1.jpg enclosure2.jpg enclosure3.jpg enclosure4.jpg enclosure5.jpg
 

crimson_lotus

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I have one uvb strip lamp and two CHE's that emit no light and only heat. Judging by your setup, I would have gone with a UV tube and perhaps a 150w CHE in the middle.

Put the substrate in and turn on an MVB (the wattage on those fixtures really matter, and the wattage of bulbs you will be using in them) and see how hot it gets with a digital hygrometer. Given the fact it's for a redfoot/yellowfoot, you will need to add some fogger/manual water spraying into your test run.

One tip is that the water will probably evaporate while directly under a heat lamp, so I would move if possible. Another thing is that I would have a dark side of the enclosure with just a CHE.
 

dwright27

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I can just about guarantee that the fixtures he put on there are not going to be able to handle an MVB.. the top part is plastic I think, not ceramic. The crappy thing is that they're stuck on there. I might be able to pull them off...

If I get a strip light, should I get one that is half the length of the enclosure then? or... 2/3? I *should* be able to mount the fixture in there somehow. Ugh this is why I got someone else to do it...
 

lisa127

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I line my enclosure with a cheap tarp.

I' not understanding why or how the light fixtures are stuck on there??
 

crimson_lotus

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I have 2/3 of the length of my enclosure for a tube UV fixture. I found some crappy metal brackets from Home Depot and nailed them to the sides to keep the light up there. Then fastened with zipties. I bet you can figure out a better solution...I am just lazy.
 

Reptilian Feline

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For a liner, have a look at the clear plastic "wax"-tablecloth. That is usually sold per yard or meter.

I'm not an expert on redfoot setups, but I would use CHE for heat, and a UVB-strip on a couple of hours around midday, and a soft glowing (orange) mood LED bulb for light, unless you have plants in there. Then I'd go with the grow light.

It's hard to tell exactly, but the dome light shades seem to be of metal? Any lamp shade is removable from the fixture by screwing some part of the fixture. You should be able to unscrew the plastic? fixture without removing the dome shades, then find ceramic fixtures that fit and screw them into the shades and it ought to be safe for CHEs. One CHE at eatch end, and a grow light LED in the middle?
 

dwright27

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I line my enclosure with a cheap tarp.

I' not understanding why or how the light fixtures are stuck on there??

Doesn't the tarp leak a bit though? I told him I wanted everything enclosed, so that's what he did lol.

I have 2/3 of the length of my enclosure for a tube UV fixture. I found some crappy metal brackets from Home Depot and nailed them to the sides to keep the light up there. Then fastened with zipties. I bet you can figure out a better solution...I am just lazy.

I am also very lazy, so this might work for me.

For a liner, have a look at the clear plastic "wax"-tablecloth. That is usually sold per yard or meter.

I'm not an expert on redfoot setups, but I would use CHE for heat, and a UVB-strip on a couple of hours around midday, and a soft glowing (orange) mood LED bulb for light, unless you have plants in there. Then I'd go with the grow light.

It's hard to tell exactly, but the dome light shades seem to be of metal? Any lamp shade is removable from the fixture by screwing some part of the fixture. You should be able to unscrew the plastic? fixture without removing the dome shades, then find ceramic fixtures that fit and screw them into the shades and it ought to be safe for CHEs. One CHE at eatch end, and a grow light LED in the middle?

GENIUS! I don't know if I can find ceramic fixtures on their own here, but I'll have a look online and see what I come up with.. What size CHE would you recommend? And yes, I will have plants in there. Still working out what to use for a hide too, since she has grown out of everything else so far.
 

lisa127

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Doesn't the tarp leak a bit though? I told him I wanted everything enclosed, so that's what he did lol.



I am also very lazy, so this might work for me.



GENIUS! I don't know if I can find ceramic fixtures on their own here, but I'll have a look online and see what I come up with.. What size CHE would you recommend? And yes, I will have plants in there. Still working out what to use for a hide too, since she has grown out of everything else so far.
Why would the tarp leak? Yes, you do want it enclosed.
 

Markw84

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@dwright27 The enclosure looks like it was well built, but unfortunately not with good knowledge of how to build a tortoise enclosure. Let me share a few thoughts...

The light fixtures should be hung inside the enclosure. As they are now, They will not properly heat the enclosure and all the warm and humid air will be sucked up around the fixtures, like a chimney, and out of the enclosure. A CHE sitting on top is very inefficient. I should be hung inside where the heated CHE bulb is radiating heat all around it - heating the enclosure. Those fixtures are indeed not designed for a CHE and should not have a plastic base holding the screw-in base for the CHE. It needs to be a fixture with a ceramic base and rated for at least 250 watts. I would get a piece of plywood that covers the hole made for the fixtures. Put a cup hook in that piece of wood centered in the hole and hang a proper fixture from that so it is hanging inside the enclosure and the hole is completely covered. As @Reptilian Feline suggests, you can probably find ceramic bases to screw the hood onto, replacing the plastic base, but that might almost be as expensive as just buying a proper fixture (brooder lamp with 10.5" dome) at a home improvement or feed store. I would use the two end holes for placing two 100 watt CHE's both connected to the same thermostat.

MVBs do not work in a closed chamber like this. It will overheat the chamber. They give off good UVB, but don't last long inside the chamber as they need proper ventilation to avoid overheating the bulb. This causes the bulb to stop working properly very soon and normally will not produce good UV for very long and may simply burn out. Additionally, MVBs are not a good choice for redfoot tortoises. The do not prefer hot and bright basking spots.

A long UVB fluorescent tube is your best choice. I would get a 4 foot T8 10.0 for your enclosure. Hang it just in front of the existing light holes in the enclosure, again simply suspended from cup hooks in the ceiling of the enclosure. This way you can adjust the height. With a redfoot, I would want a slightly lower UVI reading, so with a 10.0 you could probably mount it so it is about 15" from the substrate. Provide several plants for overhanging cover and give the tortoise a feel it is in a more forest type environment with broken shade for cover and UV exposure.

Cover the center hole with wood exactly as for the CHE's, but go ahead and use one of the plastic based fixtures and hang it inside the enclosure, with the hole on top covered, and put in a 65 watt flood bulb. Redfoots don't need the same basking area as many tortoises, so I would mount it at the top, simply hanging directly from a cup hook. That will not give a overly hot basking spot, but still give a much fuller color to the light in the center of the enclosure with the more red end of the spectrum from the incandescent flood bulb. That will give a nice gradient to the light. Hook the fluorescent and the flood bulb to a timer set for 13-14 hours on each day.

You water dish is too deep for a small redfoot, and with vertical, slippery surfaces, will be difficult for it to get out of. Perhaps you are planning on putting some rocks in there to make it more shallow for now, and give better traction?

The doors are well made and look great, but the single pane glass will form condensation quickly from the heat and humidity in your enclosure once set up properly. Since they are built so the simply close against the front face of the enclosure - that will drip water out the bottom of the doors and onto your floor. You will be surprised how much water that can be!

As far as sealing the bottom - I would paint it with a good waterproof coating now while it is new. Rustoleum Countertop paint would be the easiest as it simply paints on like a regular paint, and you can get it tinted to many different colors. I assume the enclosure was painted with a regular latex paint? If so the Countertop paint will apply nicely on top of that. Since you want the option to take it apart and move it later, I would put on the Countertop paint, going a good 6-8" up the sides. Let it cure/dry for a few days, and then seal all the seams with a bead of silicone. All corners where the sides meet the bottom as well as the seams where the pieces fit together. That way you could cut the two seams in the middle of the floor with a box cutter and take it apart later when needed.
 

Reptilian Feline

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From what I have read here the recommendation for CHEs is a number of 100W (or smaller in tiny places) rather than bigger. I've seen some graphs on hight and temp, and so far, 100W but more of them, and a thermostat is a better way, than aiming for one heavy duty one. Go with fixture for 250W as Mark suggested, then you have some safety margins.

If you want to be able to move the pieces, sticking them together with sealant might not work. Put them together too well, and you won't be able to separate them with ease.

The drip-drip of condensation from the doors might be temporarily handled by attaching some strips of sponges on the inside below the glass. Not perfect and not pretty and might get really messy, but until you can have it fixed? It's either that or put gutters on the outside.

Looking at the pictures... I noticed you screw the sections together. You could use some strips of door/window draught "tape" and that should help. Separate the sections, add the strips and screw the pieces together again. It should work if you get the right stuff. I hope you understand what I mean, if not, let me know and I'll google some examples.
 

Perenz

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I think you can get away with having the dome fixtures on top. Assuming there’s not a lot of space around them. I have one dome fixture with a che on top, and a uvb strip on the opposite side. The che is on a thermostat and a fogger is on a humidity controller.

You can buy the ceramic socket fixtures at your big box hardware stores for a few bucks each.

In my enclosure I purchased a small sheet of linoleum for the bottom and some tiles for the side walls. Stick it all down and seal the seams with aquarium silicone. IMG_0646.JPG
 

dwright27

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I am completely overwhelmed by this whole ordeal. Had I known how little anyone knew about tortoises here in Ontario I wouldn't have gotten her, because I haven't been able to communicate to anyone what I need.. the guy that built the enclosure, the people in different pet stores, even at reptile expos for crying out loud! I'm at my wit's end. I am not getting rid of her, as I am responsible for her well-being and want to do right by her... but holy hell.

I was a dummy and put in plant brackets on the inside before I read your message. Except now I have the brackets in there and I still don't know what to do!! I have 2 lengths of #12 jack chain to work with..

I love Canada... born and raised here and wouldn't live anywhere else. But it SUCKS here when it comes to animals. I'm sure that in the US, people can buy ceramic sockets on their own. I can't find anything here. It took me AGES to even find just a regular incandescent bulb! Everything is LED now. Literally the only options for heat and UV are pet stores (and they're still often not what I need) and Amazon... and even Amazon is sketchy sometimes because none of the items come from Canadian sellers and I have to pay crazy duties on them.

Hell, I go into a Home Depot and ask for small squares of plywood, I'm going to get the stare... like I'm a crazy person. I'm so frustrated... can you tell?

I have a strip light now. I got this one with the fixture and the bulb included: https://zoomed.com/reptisun-t5-ho-terrarium-hood/ and I put the stupid plant brackets in and now I'm like... NOW WHAT :'(

Could you show me an example of what flood bulb you recommend?

I have timers, I think that's about the only thing I've done right so far.

I will be putting rocks in the bottom of the water dish for sure. When I saw it I knew it would be too deep for her. She's not small, but she's not fully grown yet, either.

I hadn't even thought about the condensation. I am so upset right now and I can't even afford to do anything more than I already have... I'm losing my mind.

The whole thing has the waterproof coating, but because it's in 3 sections there are still seams I needed to cover. I got a tarp.

I keep saying this but I am feeling like this whole thing is wrong.. again.. and that I have no business even having a tortoise if I am not a friggin' carpenter myself.. I just wish I knew someone who could come here and make the alterations but I don't... this dude lives 3 hours away and there's no way he's going to come out here again.

@dwright27 The enclosure looks like it was well built, but unfortunately not with good knowledge of how to build a tortoise enclosure. Let me share a few thoughts...

The light fixtures should be hung inside the enclosure. As they are now, They will not properly heat the enclosure and all the warm and humid air will be sucked up around the fixtures, like a chimney, and out of the enclosure. A CHE sitting on top is very inefficient. I should be hung inside where the heated CHE bulb is radiating heat all around it - heating the enclosure. Those fixtures are indeed not designed for a CHE and should not have a plastic base holding the screw-in base for the CHE. It needs to be a fixture with a ceramic base and rated for at least 250 watts. I would get a piece of plywood that covers the hole made for the fixtures. Put a cup hook in that piece of wood centered in the hole and hang a proper fixture from that so it is hanging inside the enclosure and the hole is completely covered. As @Reptilian Feline suggests, you can probably find ceramic bases to screw the hood onto, replacing the plastic base, but that might almost be as expensive as just buying a proper fixture (brooder lamp with 10.5" dome) at a home improvement or feed store. I would use the two end holes for placing two 100 watt CHE's both connected to the same thermostat.

MVBs do not work in a closed chamber like this. It will overheat the chamber. They give off good UVB, but don't last long inside the chamber as they need proper ventilation to avoid overheating the bulb. This causes the bulb to stop working properly very soon and normally will not produce good UV for very long and may simply burn out. Additionally, MVBs are not a good choice for redfoot tortoises. The do not prefer hot and bright basking spots.

A long UVB fluorescent tube is your best choice. I would get a 4 foot T8 10.0 for your enclosure. Hang it just in front of the existing light holes in the enclosure, again simply suspended from cup hooks in the ceiling of the enclosure. This way you can adjust the height. With a redfoot, I would want a slightly lower UVI reading, so with a 10.0 you could probably mount it so it is about 15" from the substrate. Provide several plants for overhanging cover and give the tortoise a feel it is in a more forest type environment with broken shade for cover and UV exposure.

Cover the center hole with wood exactly as for the CHE's, but go ahead and use one of the plastic based fixtures and hang it inside the enclosure, with the hole on top covered, and put in a 65 watt flood bulb. Redfoots don't need the same basking area as many tortoises, so I would mount it at the top, simply hanging directly from a cup hook. That will not give a overly hot basking spot, but still give a much fuller color to the light in the center of the enclosure with the more red end of the spectrum from the incandescent flood bulb. That will give a nice gradient to the light. Hook the fluorescent and the flood bulb to a timer set for 13-14 hours on each day.

You water dish is too deep for a small redfoot, and with vertical, slippery surfaces, will be difficult for it to get out of. Perhaps you are planning on putting some rocks in there to make it more shallow for now, and give better traction?

The doors are well made and look great, but the single pane glass will form condensation quickly from the heat and humidity in your enclosure once set up properly. Since they are built so the simply close against the front face of the enclosure - that will drip water out the bottom of the doors and onto your floor. You will be surprised how much water that can be!

As far as sealing the bottom - I would paint it with a good waterproof coating now while it is new. Rustoleum Countertop paint would be the easiest as it simply paints on like a regular paint, and you can get it tinted to many different colors. I assume the enclosure was painted with a regular latex paint? If so the Countertop paint will apply nicely on top of that. Since you want the option to take it apart and move it later, I would put on the Countertop paint, going a good 6-8" up the sides. Let it cure/dry for a few days, and then seal all the seams with a bead of silicone. All corners where the sides meet the bottom as well as the seams where the pieces fit together. That way you could cut the two seams in the middle of the floor with a box cutter and take it apart later when needed.
 

Yvonne G

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Try to stay calm. It really does get easier with time.
 

Yvonne G

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It's really too bad there wasn't an experienced tortoise keeper in your town so you can go take a look at his set up and supplies.
 

dwright27

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It's really too bad there wasn't an experienced tortoise keeper in your town so you can go take a look at his set up and supplies.

Yeah that would be ideal... there was one, he actually worked as a manager at Petsmart close to me and he had his tortoises in a walk-in closet and set up for them but he transfered and I don't have his number or anything.
 

Markw84

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I am completely overwhelmed by this whole ordeal. Had I known how little anyone knew about tortoises here in Ontario I wouldn't have gotten her, because I haven't been able to communicate to anyone what I need.. the guy that built the enclosure, the people in different pet stores, even at reptile expos for crying out loud! I'm at my wit's end. I am not getting rid of her, as I am responsible for her well-being and want to do right by her... but holy hell.

I was a dummy and put in plant brackets on the inside before I read your message. Except now I have the brackets in there and I still don't know what to do!! I have 2 lengths of #12 jack chain to work with..

I love Canada... born and raised here and wouldn't live anywhere else. But it SUCKS here when it comes to animals. I'm sure that in the US, people can buy ceramic sockets on their own. I can't find anything here. It took me AGES to even find just a regular incandescent bulb! Everything is LED now. Literally the only options for heat and UV are pet stores (and they're still often not what I need) and Amazon... and even Amazon is sketchy sometimes because none of the items come from Canadian sellers and I have to pay crazy duties on them.

Hell, I go into a Home Depot and ask for small squares of plywood, I'm going to get the stare... like I'm a crazy person. I'm so frustrated... can you tell?

I have a strip light now. I got this one with the fixture and the bulb included: https://zoomed.com/reptisun-t5-ho-terrarium-hood/ and I put the stupid plant brackets in and now I'm like... NOW WHAT :'(

Could you show me an example of what flood bulb you recommend?

I have timers, I think that's about the only thing I've done right so far.

I will be putting rocks in the bottom of the water dish for sure. When I saw it I knew it would be too deep for her. She's not small, but she's not fully grown yet, either.

I hadn't even thought about the condensation. I am so upset right now and I can't even afford to do anything more than I already have... I'm losing my mind.

The whole thing has the waterproof coating, but because it's in 3 sections there are still seams I needed to cover. I got a tarp.

I keep saying this but I am feeling like this whole thing is wrong.. again.. and that I have no business even having a tortoise if I am not a friggin' carpenter myself.. I just wish I knew someone who could come here and make the alterations but I don't... this dude lives 3 hours away and there's no way he's going to come out here again.
Don't be so stressed out. You actually have a very nice foundation for a good enclosure there with just a few modifications. It is a nice closed chamber - so that is a fantastic start!

Here is a picture of one of my enclosures so you can see the lights. they are simply hanging from cup hooks screwed into the "ceiling" of the enclosure. Take a small drill bit - just smaller than the screws of the hook - and just start a small hole where you want a hook, then just screw in the hook by hand. if you don't have a drill bit, just use a small nail and hammer it in 1/4" or so where you want teh hook and screw in the hook.

You have a great UVB and fixture. SImply hang that in the middle of your enclosure as I have. I have two fluorescents here, but you will just need the one you have.

ON each end you can see the "brooder lamp" I use for my CHEs. I'm sure some people raise chickens in Canada and you can find brooder lamps. I have both plugged together to an extension cord, then that plugged into my thermostat set for 81°

You can also use those same brooder lamps for you basking bulb - 65 watt flood bulb. Most places are getting rid of incadescent for energy reasons, but hardware stores here sitll carry some. I have two basking bulbs, you can use just one in your enclosure. Hang it about where the one I have on the right is hanging and it will give you a nice temp gradient in the daytime. The second picture is the bulb I buy for basking.

Dont' worry about the condensation and some drips. It won't be that bad and just a heads up that it will be a bit of a nusiance.

For the seams where the 3 pieces come together - can you get "Flex Seal Tape" there? It is advertised like crazy here and in most hardware stores. You could use that to simply "tape" the seams where the pieces come together for now, going a few inches up on the sides. You shouldn't have standing water in the enclosure - so it shouldn't be a big deal to just make it work for now. If you can't find that tape, just use some duct tape for now. Not perfect, but it will work and get you going.

For goodness sake - - - things that are truly rewarding are a journey, not a destination. It is the process of learning and experimenting that can make it so rewarding even if at the time it gets frustrating.

IMG_2879.JPG

65 watt flood.jpg
 

dwright27

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The fixture itself (for the T5) has nowhere to attach anything. No hooks, no holes. I don't know about you but I am not skilled enough to try to make my own holes in a metal fixture and void the warranty.
 

dwright27

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I was originally going to use the chain ... have the light sit on it like a hammock but then I don't know how to make sure it stays put...?
 
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