Help ID my box turtles

JunranPD

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I have had those two for a couple years. I am still not 100% sure of their exact species.
I think one is a EBT and the other one is a 3-toed but I m not sure.
one is 5.2 inches(EBT looking) and one is 6.3 inches(3-toed looking) and both are females.
Both sold me as LTC.

First one:
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Second one:
IMG_3092.JPG
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Together:
IMG_3099.JPG
IMG_3104.JPG
 

domalle

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I have had those two for a couple years. I am still not 100% sure of their exact species.
I think one is a EBT and the other one is a 3-toed but I m not sure.
one is 5.2 inches(EBT looking) and one is 6.3 inches(3-toed looking) and both are females.
Both sold me as LTC.

First one:
View attachment 227717
View attachment 227730
View attachment 227719

Second one:
View attachment 227723
View attachment 227720

Together:
View attachment 227721
View attachment 227722

First one has four toes on hind foot although that is not always diagnostic as Three-toed sometimes has four. Three-toed is actually just a type of Eastern box turtle from the Midwest US. First one is an Eastern box turtle, Terrapene carolina carolina. Second is indeed a Three-toed box turtle, Terrapene carolina triunguis. So your inclination was correct on both counts, as well as on gender. Both very nice turtles. May have spent some time in captivity but not much.
 

JunranPD

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Thank you for your reply.
However,i never seen a eastern box turtle like her(first one), could she be a hybrid of 3-toed and eastern? Because I thought easterns should have black/brown shell with yellow/orange marks on it.
Also, I thought 3-toed should be around 4-5 inches, but mine is over 6 inches, she might be a hybrid too?
Do box turtle hybrids exist in the wild?

First one has four toes on hind foot although that is not always diagnostic as Three-toed sometimes has four. Three-toed is actually just a type of Eastern box turtle from the Midwest US. First one is an Eastern box turtle, Terrapene carolina carolina. Second is indeed a Three-toed box turtle, Terrapene carolina triunguis. So your inclination was correct on both counts, as well as on gender. Both very nice turtles. May have spent some time in captivity but not much.
 

domalle

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Thank you for your reply.
However,i never seen a eastern box turtle like her(first one), could she be a hybrid of 3-toed and eastern? Because I thought easterns should have black/brown shell with yellow/orange marks on it.
Also, I thought 3-toed should be around 4-5 inches, but mine is over 6 inches, she might be a hybrid too?
Do box turtle hybrids exist in the wild?

Measurements are taken of the carapace (top shell) on a straight line. She is a large specimen but the record for a Three-toed is around 7 inches.
The largest of the American box turtles is the Gulf Coast.
There is much intergradation among the box turtles but young female Easterns can be somewhat nondescript. Male Easterns can be spectacularly colored and marked. @terryo is my go to box turtle expert. Maybe she can chime in and correct me if I'm wrong.
 

Yvonne G

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The first picture shows a pretty old eastern box turtle and her shell pattern has worn off.
 

lisa127

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Thank you for your reply.
However,i never seen a eastern box turtle like her(first one), could she be a hybrid of 3-toed and eastern? Because I thought easterns should have black/brown shell with yellow/orange marks on it.
Also, I thought 3-toed should be around 4-5 inches, but mine is over 6 inches, she might be a hybrid too?
Do box turtle hybrids exist in the wild?
I was thinking the first may be an integrade (the actual term), as she does not strike me as eastern.
The second one appears pure 3 toed. Females can be quite large.
Yes, integrades exist in captivity and in the wild. I have a captive bred 3 toed/gulf coast integrade.
 

domalle

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Both @Yvonne G and @lisa127 have extensive experience and make some interesting observations.
The first turtle has typical plastral markings for Terrapene carolina carolina, the Eastern Box turtle. As Yvonne observes the carapace shows some indication of wear which could attest to longevity. I attributed the somewhat pop-eyed appearance to nutrient deficiency and thought the turtle looked young despite the perceived wear. Vivid and beautiful carapace coloring though. The head, limb and tail color looked like many young Three-toeds, Terrapene carolina triunguis, so with the carapace, Lisa's observation is persuasive as well. The turtle could be a carolina x triunguis intergrade.

I think we can all agree it's fun to try to figure the box turtles out because they are so highly individual and variable throughout their expansive range.
 

JunranPD

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Thank you all!
My last question is if my Eastern is too old to breed? Since I was told many times that she is old...I dont know how to tell the exact age for turtles..
Should I try to breed her or just leave her along?@domalle @Yvonne G @lisa127
 

jakskillz

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Thank you all!
My last question is if my Eastern is too old to breed? Since I was told many times that she is old...I dont know how to tell the exact age for turtles..
Should I try to breed her or just leave her along?@domalle @Yvonne G @lisa127

I agree with the Identification from everyone else but will also point out since You don’t know her age breeding might be stressful on her. Females that don’t feel comfortable enough to lay eggs will hold onto them and become egg bound and possibly die from complications. If you’re trying to breed do tons of research on how to set them up properly. Females will not breed if a male is constantly harassing them or they feel unsafe. Many people will allow them to mate then separate or provide them with enough space for the female to lay in peace. Also remember that eggs that are laid must retain their orientation or they may not hatch. You can mark the top of the egg with a marker or if you know the female has laid in a certain area either move the adults out or create a barrier for the eggs to remain undisturbed. Hatching babies are easy snacks for adult box turtles.
 

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