Sulcata Groups vs. Pairs?!

prettyinink66 · Mar 17, 2018

Can anybody explain to me why Sulcatas often do well/get along well in groups of more than three? I’ve got two hatchlings, and now I’m wondering if I should possibly add a couple more, since I don’t plan to part with either (I love them way too much already). I’ve already been told to separate them, but I can see that getting much more challenging the older and bigger they get. If anyone does recommend getting a couple more, is it still okay to buy from the same breeder out of the same clutch? Or should I find them elsewhere in case of breeding way down the line?

Tom · Mar 17, 2018

With a pair one must be dominant and one submissive. It is this way with virtually every living thing. Group dynamics are very different than pair dynamics. In a group, and aggression or hostility (Subtle or not…) is dispersed amongst many individuals, vs. focused all on one individual. Also, because of the movement, activity and distraction, there tends to be less aggression over all. Example: Years ago I had what I thought were two females and a male. Turns out one "female" was really a late blooming male and we had a battle to the death happening. I had to separate them. That left one male and one female together. The male relentlessly paced the entire convoluted 7000 sq. ft. pen searching for the female. With out exaggeration, he would breed her 15-20 times a day. My solution to this problem was to add a couple more females to the enclosure. WIth all these females running around, he lost his sense of urgency and desperation. Instead of breeding one female 15-20 times a day, he would mate all three of them for a total of 4-6 times a day. That meant each female only saw him once or twice a day. That group lived harmoniously for several years.

The issue then became my time. All of my time was used up tending to eggs and babies. Each female was making nearly 100 babies a year. All of them needed proper care, daily soaks and buckets of food. All of my free time became devoted to my baby making factory. All year long I was digging up eggs, incubating eggs, hatching eggs starting babies, and selling selling selling. I became a baby tortoise salesman. Had to quit all my other activities and hobbies for most of every year. Frankly, there are enough sulcatas being produced every year to meet the demand, and I don't encourage anyone to make more. Most of the ones being produced will be started wrong and not survive, and this has actually helped keep the numbers down somewhat.

If you enjoy your two , then keep them both, but house them separately. Anytime you have more than one, you can run into problems and have to separate them. If you bought one or two more, you might end up having to take care of 3 or 4 separate enclosures in a couple of years instead of just two. Everyone n this forum understands the urge to buy more tortoises. I just want you to have the info to be able to make an informed decision. Having one or two in a reasonably warm climate is pretty easy. Having there or four can add a lot of time and complication to the mix. It is your call and we've got your back whatever you decide.

If you do get more, I recommend getting them from a breeder that starts them right. Humid, warm, hydrated, and fed a wide variety of "natural" foods. We can help you find that breeder too.

prettyinink66 · Mar 17, 2018

Tom said:
With a pair one must be dominant and one submissive. It is this way with virtually every living thing. Group dynamics are very different than pair dynamics. In a group, and aggression or hostility (Subtle or not…) is dispersed amongst many individuals, vs. focused all on one individual. Also, because of the movement, activity and distraction, there tends to be less aggression over all. Example: Years ago I had what I thought were two females and a male. Turns out one "female" was really a late blooming male and we had a battle to the death happening. I had to separate them. That left one male and one female together. The male relentlessly paced the entire convoluted 7000 sq. ft. pen searching for the female. With out exaggeration, he would breed her 15-20 times a day. My solution to this problem was to add a couple more females to the enclosure. WIth all these females running around, he lost his sense of urgency and desperation. Instead of breeding one female 15-20 times a day, he would mate all three of them for a total of 4-6 times a day. That meant each female only saw him once or twice a day. That group lived harmoniously for several years.

The issue then became my time. All of my time was used up tending to eggs and babies. Each female was making nearly 100 babies a year. All of them needed proper care, daily soaks and buckets of food. All of my free time became devoted to my baby making factory. All year long I was digging up eggs, incubating eggs, hatching eggs starting babies, and selling selling selling. I became a baby tortoise salesman. Had to quit all my other activities and hobbies for most of every year. Frankly, there are enough sulcatas being produced every year to meet the demand, and I don't encourage anyone to make more. Most of the ones being produced will be started wrong and not survive, and this has actually helped keep the numbers down somewhat.

If you enjoy your two , then keep them both, but house them separately. Anytime you have more than one, you can run into problems and have to separate them. If you bought one or two more, you might end up having to take care of 3 or 4 separate enclosures in a couple of years instead of just two. Everyone n this forum understands the urge to buy more tortoises. I just want you to have the info to be able to make an informed decision. Having one or two in a reasonably warm climate is pretty easy. Having there or four can add a lot of time and complication to the mix. It is your call and we've got your back whatever you decide.

If you do get more, I recommend getting them from a breeder that starts them right. Humid, warm, hydrated, and fed a wide variety of "natural" foods. We can help you find that breeder too.

Thank you so much Tom! You have excellent and very useful info and suggestions!!! I’ve finally been able to read up more on here, and it’s mostly been all your threads. Haha! They are great!! I’ve already learned so much more. =)

no one · Mar 17, 2018

Other then what Tom says, do you have room for 3 to 4 fully grown Sultaca's? Even if they too, should be kept separately? Which can always be the case.

prettyinink66 · Mar 17, 2018

*debora* said:
Other then what Tom says, do you have room for 3 to 4 fully grown Sultaca's? Even if they too, should be kept separately? Which can always be the case.

Yes, more than enough (but then again, enough is never enough.. so I’ve read). I live on seven acres, and already have a large fenced in area that’s perfect for them. Just need to reinforce it, and make sure they can’t dig out or anything. When they get a little bigger, which I’m assuming it’ll still be another year or two, I’m going to section off a few smaller areas for their temporary, and occasional outdoor habitat, as the weather permits. I’m thinking about possibly digging it out a foot or two and add wire to the bottom, and cover it up and grow grass over it. Also I will certainly be covering it with wood and sturdy wire. There are hawks and other predators around, and I just can’t risk the chance of them getting scooped up as a snack! I have stayed within close eyesight (if not within 5-10 feet even) of them when I’ve taken them outside the past two days. I’m definitely weighing my options, and trying to think as rational as possible before making my decision. It’s hard to not jump at the opportunity to bring home a few more of the adorable little guys!

Yvonne G · Mar 17, 2018

They don't really dig to escape, just to dig a burrow for shelter. If they can see daylight under the fence, then, yes, they'll dig in that spot to escape, so you just need to have the whole fence, all around his yard, touch the ground with no see-through areas.

prettyinink66 · Mar 17, 2018

Yvonne G said:
They don't really dig to escape, just to dig a burrow for shelter. If they can see daylight under the fence, then, yes, they'll dig in that spot to escape, so you just need to have the whole fence, all around his yard, touch the ground with no see-through areas.

Okay, then that’s great news! I can just make a wooden barrier around the entire enclosures, about 1-2 feet tall. I don’t think it would need to be any higher than that (anybody can and please correct me if I’m wrong). They will have plenty of good hides! =)

Tom · Mar 17, 2018

prettyinink66 said:
Okay, then that’s great news! I can just make a wooden barrier around the entire enclosures, about 1-2 feet tall. I don’t think it would need to be any higher than that (anybody can and please correct me if I’m wrong). They will have plenty of good hides! =)

You've got it right. 12" is really tall enough. That way you can get 32 linear feet from each sheet of plywood.

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