RF/YF breeding Question

Brunurupucis · Aug 15, 2018

What is too much harassing? I just adopted a Yellow foot female 35 years old and her friend of 20 years a male Red foot 30 years old... Got them 2 weeks ago and he usually initiates the head shaking left to right she then responds mounts her 2 to 6 times a day.... She usually just stays put but also walks around. 10 x 16 foot pen will let roam fenced yard when home. She has laid eggs previous owner discarded was told can't be fertile. Can that be true? Exciting!

Tom · Aug 15, 2018

Species should never be mixed. Hybrids should never be created. Tortoises should never live in pairs. This constant harassment on top of being removed form her known home and transplanted elsewhere is enough to kill a tortoise. They should be separated ASAP and kept separated permanently. If you want to breed them get two or three female RFs, another female or two plus a male YF and then quarantine all the new ones for several months before finally introducing the two separate groups for breeding. Be prepared to separate them all at any time if it isn't working out.

ZEROPILOT · Aug 15, 2018

I agree with the above.
And with Redfoot, I recommend a ratio of at least 3 females per male.

Kapidolo Farms · Aug 15, 2018

As an aside, the is a good chance the eggs would be fertile. It would be a hybrid, that may or may not happen in the wild at some unknown rate of occurrence. I agree with the ideal of NOT making hybrids, but if you do, please be honest about what you may end up adopting out or selling.

domalle · Aug 15, 2018

Brunurupucis said:
What is too much harassing? I just adopted a Yellow foot female 35 years old and her friend of 20 years a male Red foot 30 years old... Got them 2 weeks ago and he usually initiates the head shaking left to right she then responds mounts her 2 to 6 times a day.... She usually just stays put but also walks around. 10 x 16 foot pen will let roam fenced yard when home. She has laid eggs previous owner discarded was told can't be fertile. Can that be true? Exciting!View attachment 248337 View attachment 248339 View attachment 248340 View attachment 248341

The pictures are not too good but the larger of the two tortoises, the female, appears to be a Redfoot, Chelonoidis carbonarius, not its close relative, the Yellowfoot tortoise, Chelonoidis denticulatus.
I think you have a pair of redfoots and so no fear of unintentional hybridization. Redfoots can generally coexist in pairs although males can unduly pester a companion female. By nature's design they are persistent suitors.

domalle · Aug 15, 2018

Brunurupucis said:
What is too much harassing? I just adopted a Yellow foot female 35 years old and her friend of 20 years a male Red foot 30 years old... Got them 2 weeks ago and he usually initiates the head shaking left to right she then responds mounts her 2 to 6 times a day.... She usually just stays put but also walks around. 10 x 16 foot pen will let roam fenced yard when home. She has laid eggs previous owner discarded was told can't be fertile. Can that be true? Exciting!View attachment 248337 View attachment 248339 View attachment 248340 View attachment 248341

Actually without firsthand inspection of the tortoises and because the pictures are not adequate to be clearly determinative, both redfoots could be female and this may simply be display of dominance behavior between two captive animals.

domalle · Aug 17, 2018

Will said:
As an aside, the is a good chance the eggs would be fertile. It would be a hybrid, that may or may not happen in the wild at some unknown rate of occurrence. I agree with the ideal of NOT making hybrids, but if you do, please be honest about what you may end up adopting out or selling.

This is a misidentification by the previous owner. Both tortoises are Redfoots.

Kapidolo Farms · Aug 17, 2018

domalle said:
This is a misidentification by the previous owner. Both tortoises are Redfoots.

Good looking out.

Kevinrrussell · Aug 20, 2018

Brunurupucis said:
What is too much harassing? I just adopted a Yellow foot female 35 years old and her friend of 20 years a male Red foot 30 years old... Got them 2 weeks ago and he usually initiates the head shaking left to right she then responds mounts her 2 to 6 times a day.... She usually just stays put but also walks around. 10 x 16 foot pen will let roam fenced yard when home. She has laid eggs previous owner discarded was told can't be fertile. Can that be true? Exciting!View attachment 248337 View attachment 248339 View attachment 248340 View attachment 248341

I see a huge tail opening here....could be a mail..

Kevinrrussell · Aug 20, 2018

Brunurupucis said:
What is too much harassing? I just adopted a Yellow foot female 35 years old and her friend of 20 years a male Red foot 30 years old... Got them 2 weeks ago and he usually initiates the head shaking left to right she then responds mounts her 2 to 6 times a day.... She usually just stays put but also walks around. 10 x 16 foot pen will let roam fenced yard when home. She has laid eggs previous owner discarded was told can't be fertile. Can that be true? Exciting!View attachment 248337 View attachment 248339 View attachment 248340 View attachment 248341

The underside is Male?

Brunurupucis · Aug 28, 2018

domalle said:
Actually without firsthand inspection of the tortoises and because the pictures are not adequate to be clearly determinative, both redfoots could be female and this may simply be display of dominance behavior between two captive animals.

I can add new pictures just example of what to take. I will take new ones I had realized that some where cut off.
Thank you.

Brunurupucis · Aug 28, 2018

domalle said:
This is a misidentification by the previous owner. Both tortoises are Redfoots.

Ohhhhh She had them for over 30 years brought to a vet regularly.....

Brunurupucis · Aug 28, 2018

I will post more official pictures. I am getting several answers. That's fine want to figure this out.

domalle · Aug 29, 2018

Brunurupucis said:
Ohhhhh She had them for over 30 years brought to a vet regularly.....

Misidentification of Redfoots and Yellowfoots is not an uncommon error among keepers and veterinarians alike.
Both Redfoots are somewhat deformed by previous culture. This is hardly unusual either.

The smaller of the two is likely male although Redfoot females can show some degree of plastral concavity, just not so pronounced as in the male of the species.
The full extent of the tail of the reported male is obscured so no sound identification as to gender can be made from the picture. Mounting can be dominance behavior and can not be used as a sole or reliable indicator of gender alone. The anal scutes are wide though so he is probably male.

Too bad the previous owner discarded those eggs. Should they have hatched, she may have realized she was in possession all those years of a breeding pair of Red-Footed tortoises.

Brunurupucis · Aug 30, 2018

domalle said:
Misidentification of Redfoots and Yellowfoots is not an uncommon error among keepers and veterinarians alike.
Both Redfoots are somewhat deformed by previous culture. This is hardly unusual either.

The smaller of the two is likely male although Redfoot females can show some degree of plastral concavity, just not so pronounced as in the male of the species.
The full extent of the tail of the reported male is obscured so no sound identification as to gender can be made from the picture. Mounting can be dominance behavior and can not be used as a sole or reliable indicator of gender alone. The anal scutes are wide though so he is probably male.

Too bad the previous owner discarded those eggs. Should they have hatched, she may have realized she was in possession all those years of a breeding pair of Red-Footed tortoises.

Great good thank you.
I will post more precise pictures soon in a few days.
"Yellow foot" female came from Arizona over 30 years ago. Red foot male was acquired 20 years ago, not sure from where but already had pyramiding. They have been together then for 20 years. Red foot is about 30 years old. So the female "Yellow food" has irregular growth? Example.
Previous owner I guess was under impression that yellow and red can't have viable young, zero, nada, no way. So she just discarded.
They are doing well good appetites, soaking etc. In a 10 x 20 foot pen grass. She has started to dig scratch so one corner 4 sq feet dug down 1 foot replaced with sand existing black soil fine mulch bedding. She seems to be sniffing the area. Added couple pics now. Will get detailed pics soon. Excitin

g!!!

Toddrickfl1 · Aug 31, 2018

Those pictures look like Redfoots.

Brunurupucis · Sep 1, 2018

Brunurupucis said:
Great good thank you.
I will post more precise pictures soon in a few days.
"Yellow foot" female came from Arizona over 30 years ago. Red foot male was acquired 20 years ago, not sure from where but already had pyramiding. They have been together then for 20 years. Red foot is about 30 years old. So the female "Yellow food" has irregular growth? Example.
Previous owner I guess was under impression that yellow and red can't have viable young, zero, nada, no way. So she just discarded.
They are doing well good appetites, soaking etc. In a 10 x 20 foot pen grass. She has started to dig scratch so one corner 4 sq feet dug down 1 foot replaced with sand existing black soil fine mulch bedding. She seems to be sniffing the area. Added couple pics now. Will get detailed pics soon. ExcitinView attachment 249891 View attachment 249892 g!!!

Here are new pictures that I took today of my Yellowfoot female 35 years old.... and Male Red Foot 30 ish. Red foot had to go poo. lol I am hopeing to get a positive ID. Previous owner had Yellowfoot female for over 30 years originally from Arizona. Male Red foot joined her 20 year aso is about 30 years old. Some have said that the Yellowfoot is actually a Red foot?! I am new to these guys. Have kept other reptiles over the years. Thank you. Not used a forum like this in a while hope no pics doubled up getting the hang of it.

Brunurupucis · Sep 1, 2018

Toddrickfl1 said:
Those pictures look like Redfoots.

Ohh

Brunurupucis · Sep 1, 2018

Toddrickfl1 said:
Those pictures look like Redfoots.

I just posted new better pics for ID.

Brunurupucis · Sep 1, 2018

domalle said:
Misidentification of Redfoots and Yellowfoots is not an uncommon error among keepers and veterinarians alike.
Both Redfoots are somewhat deformed by previous culture. This is hardly unusual either.

The smaller of the two is likely male although Redfoot females can show some degree of plastral concavity, just not so pronounced as in the male of the species.
The full extent of the tail of the reported male is obscured so no sound identification as to gender can be made from the picture. Mounting can be dominance behavior and can not be used as a sole or reliable indicator of gender alone. The anal scutes are wide though so he is probably male.

Too bad the previous owner discarded those eggs. Should they have hatched, she may have realized she was in possession all those years of a breeding pair of Red-Footed tortoises.

Just posted new pictures of both taken today in detail.

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