Persistent postpartum nesting behavior

rte123

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My female M. emys emys laid her second clutch on Jul 16. It had been in the mid-100's for a month here in central Calif. I did as I did last summer and began collecting the eggs as soon as they appeared dry, even while she was still laying new eggs (37 total). I put the eggs in an incubator. Later in the day, she did something new: she came back to the nest, smelled around, and then began digging up the nest, presumably to find/confirm her eggs, an ungratified search. The next day, she began eating but only for a day. She has hardly eaten since Jul 16. And she seems in her nesting trance, piling her nest high, pulling in food dishes and soil, digging into the soil and sticking her nose against the soil, as if still looking for eggs. Honestly, I feel very guilty for perhaps taking her eggs too quickly. I would do it differently after this experience. But meanwhile, she persists in this nesting and nest investigating behavior, eating nothing for the past few weeks although still drinking. I have soaked her, sprayed her down with water, taken here nest material away for a couple days but then returned it, given her treats she normally loves (banana, papaya, sweet potato) but no change. I plan to take her to the vet this weekend to request an x-ray for possible retained eggs. Any other ideas out there? Just please don't scold me for taking the eggs too soon. I know, I know.
 

wellington

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They don't have that kind of instinct to care about their eggs once they laid them. Most will catch the eggs as they are dropping into the nest, so you didn't take them too early. Do you know if she got startled and maybe didn't get too finish laying? I vet visit for X-rays might be a good idea to see if she laid them all.
 

domalle

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My female M. emys emys laid her second clutch on Jul 16. It had been in the mid-100's for a month here in central Calif. I did as I did last summer and began collecting the eggs as soon as they appeared dry, even while she was still laying new eggs (37 total). I put the eggs in an incubator. Later in the day, she did something new: she came back to the nest, smelled around, and then began digging up the nest, presumably to find/confirm her eggs, an ungratified search. The next day, she began eating but only for a day. She has hardly eaten since Jul 16. And she seems in her nesting trance, piling her nest high, pulling in food dishes and soil, digging into the soil and sticking her nose against the soil, as if still looking for eggs. Honestly, I feel very guilty for perhaps taking her eggs too quickly. I would do it differently after this experience. But meanwhile, she persists in this nesting and nest investigating behavior, eating nothing for the past few weeks although still drinking. I have soaked her, sprayed her down with water, taken here nest material away for a couple days but then returned it, given her treats she normally loves (banana, papaya, sweet potato) but no change. I plan to take her to the vet this weekend to request an x-ray for possible retained eggs. Any other ideas out there? Just please don't scold me for taking the eggs too soon. I know, I know.

Manouria emys species are unique in that the female will guard her nest and eggs even to the extent of chasing off prospective predators like lizards.
She may perceive your activity in removing the eggs as predatory or have more eggs to lay which she will probably accomplish without any need of intervention. Take it easy on yourself.
 

Markw84

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As @domalle has stated, Manouria emys do indeed care for and guard nests after laying. The activity you mention is the type of activity a female will do to check nest conditions like temp and humidity and drag additional organic matter on the nest or remove some as she feels necessary. Let's ask a few Manouria emys breeders what they think of your question and see if they have additional insights...

@Yvonne G @Will
 

Yvonne G

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It has been my experience that the female lays the eggs close to the beginning of nest building activity, then after the eggs are in the nest, she continues to drag material over the nest, sometimes for two weeks after the eggs have been deposited. When she has the nest to her satisfaction, she will spend a further time laying on top of it, guarding it.
 

Kapidolo Farms

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I have nothing to ad to Mark's Yvonne's or Domalle's comments. Barbara, these guys are different. Some folks call it actual parental care, for the eggs. In a older publication, Sean MCkeown showed adult females seeking to bite and run-off stuffed monitors (predatory lizards) as a demonstration for one potential purpose in the nest guarding behavior. Surveillance and adjusting are another potential nest guarding purpose.
 

rte123

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I want to thank those of you who responded to my need for information in what seemed a dangerous strait. I will describe the happy ending. She dug and swept dirt all day long for 2-3 days. She gradually covered the pine needle nest completely with dirt. The next day, she had moved into the general enclosure, the desperation and trance were over, and she began eating normally. I have not found her near the nest since then. I had made a vet appt to get an x-ray for retained eggs but she started eating 2 days prior and I canceled. So, crisis over and it is nice to be able to commiserate with like-devoted "cheloniophiles".
 
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