Refusing to show breeding facility?

ALDABRAMAN

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~ Why would a well known retailer refuse or decline to show a potential customer pictures of the breeding facility where they get the tortoises they sale. This really strikes me as odd, anyone have any thoughts or possible reasons other than guarding or protecting the source?
 

Millerlite

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Interesting thread, not sure the exact answer. But could range from some shady stuff going down, to just not letting photos leak for safety of the actual place. If your in the business though you should want to show the husbandry and show off the parents and all that you would think. I am going to follow this thread, Have me interested. Can't wait to hear from some of the breeders we have, and "retailors" we have on here.

Kyle
 

orv

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~ Why would a well known retailer refuse or decline to show a potential customer pictures of the breeding facility where they get the tortoises they sale. This really strikes me as odd, anyone have any thoughts or possible reasons other than guarding or protecting the source?
Pet retailers often recieve their "for sale" items from multiple resources, ie various breeding facilities. These for sale tortoises are recieved at distribution centers first, prior to movement to the individual retail stores. The retailer may have no idea of the provenance of their tortoises. It is clearly in the interest of the customer to purchase from a well-known breeder.
 

ALDABRAMAN

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Interesting thread, not sure the exact answer.

~ There could be many reasons, this is so true. Being very safe and careful, we take precautions to not disclose our location and certain things we feel are privileged or propriety. This just makes sense at many levels, however when someone is interested in purchasing a hatching from us, i made every effort to provide them with any pictures they would like, especially of the actual tortoises available. Not offering location disclosure is totally understandable, however generic pictures of your overall program seems like almost a must for any reasonable potential customers.
 

Toddrickfl1

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Perhaps the tortoises aren't coming from a breeding facility and they are coming from the wild?
 

Kapidolo Farms

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In the absence of knowledge we speculate wildly.

I rarely have people come to my place, it has much to do with how I was raised and the influence of my working in my father's printing plant as a child. Most people who sought to 'come see where it all happens' just wanted an amusement. It takes time away from productivity, and leads to further speculation by the visitors of what they saw but did not ask about.

If you want images of specific set-up or enclosures, that's great, as as well as the adults the neonates come from. That too takes time, but it's a much more easily managed bit of time than a live visit, which leads to all kinds of strangeness. If the person wants to buy a leopard tortoise then they spend 2 hours of your time looking at spider tortoises, and asking a bazillion questions, that they will never buy, it's a huge waste of time.

I'm always happy to share what I think I know, but at my convenience, not yours.

Most breeders do not have a 'separate visitor experience' place, it's a part of their home. It's my home, and I am not so keen to have people I only know through a mutual interest walking around in my house. I am very flattered when someone invites me into their home, that is the most private of spaces. The big "you will never come here, EVER" is when the entitled attitude shows up. So, you spent $200 on a leopard tortoise, you are entitled to a healthy thriving animal, we can chat about husbandry on the phone, in email, here on TFO, but you are NOT entitled to come into my home.

I suppose when some land is acquired and a more formal 'farm' is built I will sort out way for school kids, small interested groups, and maybe even people interested in some kind of academic research, to have access, but not my home.
 

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My opinion is from not only being a dog breeder, of at that time expensive dog breed, but also a purchaser of said breed and of purebred cats. Any one not willing to show their facilities and all who lives there is someone you run from and don't look back. This means not only pictures, but showing them in person too should they want to purchase in person. Anyone doing things right, is happy and proud to show it off!
Caution needs to be taken into consideration. However, those your speaking too are much less a worry then those you don't hear from.
 

Yvonne G

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I'm afraid I'm with Will on this one. Because I have my tortoise operation at my home, I'm hesitant to allow just anyone access. I'm more than willing to send pictures of the adult animals, the incubators and the baby habitats, but I don't want every Tom, Richard and Mary to come here to my home. It would be a different story if I had a regular business locale.
 
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EdMurphy

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We have had a bad experience with people that came over claiming they wanted to buy rabbits. They where PETA and a problem with animals in cages and pens, tried to cause problems for us and harass us. Also there are concerns with what people are tracking into the farm, even the vets need to take precautions when the get out of the car. No more visitors, now most sales are done at judging shows, 4H or meet someplace else.
 

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I don't mind showing close friends and people I know very well around my home, because I trust them. But there's also rising crime and the last thing I would want is for someone I hardly know to have toured my home and seen all my tortoises, and return when I'm not home and help themselves. I would be devastated. So for me it would be a matter of security and safety. I put a lot of money and time and care into my tortoises.
 

wellington

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If you do it right, you will have information on the person coming to your home. Now days, not when I was breeding, you have the luxury of the internet. You can ask for all kinds of info of the future visitor, even a picture.
Puppy Mills/nasty breeders are the ones that won't let you show up.
Another way is to require a deposit before they show. This way you know they are serious about purchasing and not just wanting too see what you have.
 

Tom

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In the absence of knowledge we speculate wildly.

I rarely have people come to my place, it has much to do with how I was raised and the influence of my working in my father's printing plant as a child. Most people who sought to 'come see where it all happens' just wanted an amusement. It takes time away from productivity, and leads to further speculation by the visitors of what they saw but did not ask about.

If you want images of specific set-up or enclosures, that's great, as as well as the adults the neonates come from. That too takes time, but it's a much more easily managed bit of time than a live visit, which leads to all kinds of strangeness. If the person wants to buy a leopard tortoise then they spend 2 hours of your time looking at spider tortoises, and asking a bazillion questions, that they will never buy, it's a huge waste of time.

I'm always happy to share what I think I know, but at my convenience, not yours.

Most breeders do not have a 'separate visitor experience' place, it's a part of their home. It's my home, and I am not so keen to have people I only know through a mutual interest walking around in my house. I am very flattered when someone invites me into their home, that is the most private of spaces. The big "you will never come here, EVER" is when the entitled attitude shows up. So, you spent $200 on a leopard tortoise, you are entitled to a healthy thriving animal, we can chat about husbandry on the phone, in email, here on TFO, but you are NOT entitled to come into my home.

I suppose when some land is acquired and a more formal 'farm' is built I will sort out way for school kids, small interested groups, and maybe even people interested in some kind of academic research, to have access, but not my home.

I don't think the original question was about having people visit in person and taking up a lot of time. I think anyone can understand why visitors would not be allowed. The original question was only about showing a few pics of the breeding facility.
 

Kapidolo Farms

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I don't think the original question was about having people visit in person and taking up a lot of time. I think anyone can understand why visitors would not be allowed. The original question was only about showing a few pics of the breeding facility.

Did I get carried away responding? What's the dealio Tom? I thoroughly enjoyed visiting your work place where you have a staff to help with all your animal stuff as well as visiting your home and meeting your family. You are welcome to my home.

I said this too

"
If you want images of specific set-up or enclosures, that's great, as as well as the adults the neonates come from. That too takes time, but it's a much more easily managed bit of time than a live visit, which leads to all kinds of strangeness. ...

I'm always happy to share what I think I know, but at my convenience, not yours. "

Too much @ALDABRAMAN ?
 

ALDABRAMAN

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~ No sir, thank you. I often don't see the easiest and most obvious things at times, lol, always good to get as many opinions as possible. Just a curious question. When this particular post came up recently in a unrelated conversation with a customer, my first thoughts were simply guarding the location of the sellers source(s) and/or he simply does not have any.
 

Tom

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Did I get carried away responding? What's the dealio Tom? I thoroughly enjoyed visiting your work place where you have a staff to help with all your animal stuff as well as visiting your home and meeting your family. You are welcome to my home.

I thoroughly enjoyed showing you guys around! Its great to get to show your stuff to other tortoise nerds!

But I would never allow potential buyers or anyone else I didn't know to come to the ranch. Friends and people I know are welcome though. The funny thing for me is that I feel like I get to know people through this forum. You and Yvonne, and Aldabraman too, are people I've met and talked to just from this forum, but I'd have no problem inviting you guys over. Barb too along with a few others. Dean visits me once in a while, and he's long over due for a visit. Hear that @DeanS ? LONG overdue...

I guess my point is that I can understand why someone wouldn't want people they don't know checkin' out their stuff in person, but sending a few pics to a potential buyer should be no problem for any breeder. I suspect the person in Aldabraman's post is a broker or re-seller. They either don't have pics, or the pics would show that its not their facility, or asking the real breeder for pics might cause a problem somehow or other.
 
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