Hi! New member here, wondering if a Russian tortoise can have too much space?

NewHatchlingRussian

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This is my very first post ever! I am linking a photo of a table I am going to use for a Russian tortoise hatchling. I will be putting 11'' tall wood on each side and 4" of a coconut coir sand mixture for substrate. I think I have most things figured out, but I am giving this baby such a huge area (about 6' x 3') that I am wondering if there is a such thing as too much? I will be getting this tortoise near the end of September and will keep you fellas updated. [emoji217] 20180916_113711.jpeg
 

katieandiggy

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Hi welcome!

Bigger is always best. My baby is in a 2ft by 5ft and trust me it’s not too big.

One thing though, do not use sand in any measure. It’s a big impaction risk and also an eye and nose irritant.

Would love to see pics along the way as you build your table.
 

NewHatchlingRussian

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Hi welcome!

Bigger is always best. My baby is in a 2ft by 5ft and trust me it’s not too big.

One thing though, do not use sand in any measure. It’s a big impaction risk and also an eye and nose irritant.

Would love to see pics along the way as you build your table.
Thankyou. I was worried he might get lost or it would be too hard for him to walk around. The breeder I am getting him from said that for hatchlings a 50/50 mix of coconut coir and sand is best. I honestly don't know who to believe. If one other person could weigh in on this and tip the scales, that would be great.
 
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Minority2

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Thankyou. I was worried he might get lost or it would be too hard for him to walk around. The breeder I am getting him from said that for hatchlings a 50/50 mix of coconut coir and sand is best. I honestly don't know who to believe. If one other person could weigh in on this and tip the scales, that would be great.

Sand is an outdated substrate option that has been known to cause eye and blockage problems in tortoises. None of our up to date care sheets on Russian tortoises (links provided) will fully recommend them.
https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/b...or-other-herbivorous-tortoise-species.107734/
https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/russian-tortoise-care-sheet.80698/

The breeder you mentioned is giving outdated and potentially dangerous advice. We can't completely blame this breeder because this type of advice was encouraged back before we knew better. Some veterinarians, pet shop owners, and even rescues still use outdated care information to this very day.

The best thing you can do is to find a breeder that promotes up to date care practices such as high humidity, frequent soakings, and ample space. A hatchling from a breeder that doesn't start their tortoises off correctly have a higher chance in developing health complications after being sold.

I also am a huge proponent for bigger and wider enclosures.
 
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NewHatchlingRussian

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Sand is an outdated substrate option that has been known to cause eye and blockage problems in tortoises. None of our up to date care sheets on Russian tortoises (links provided) will fully recommend them.
https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/b...or-other-herbivorous-tortoise-species.107734/
https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/russian-tortoise-care-sheet.80698/

The breeder you mentioned is giving outdated and potentially dangerous advice. We can't completely blame this breeder because this type of advice was encouraged back before we knew better. Some veterinarians, pet shop owners, and even rescues still use outdated care information to this very day.

The best thing you can do is to find a breeder that promotes up to date care practices such as high humidity, frequent soakings, and ample space. A hatchling from a breeder that doesn't start their tortoises off correctly have a higher chance in developing health complications after being sold.

I also am a huge proponent for bigger and wider enclosures.
Thank you for getting back to me. I have definitely heard more people saying sand is bad. I will mot be using play sand in his enclosure. However, I still must buy this tortoise. I must save him. Funny enough, the breeder recommended this site to me. Maybe he is a member here? I am definitely leaning for the humid side. I plan for both a dry and humid side, daily soaks and constant spray bottle soakage. I learned a trick from a friend to give the tortoise water without the danger of drowning. I plan to take a ziplock lid and flip it upsidown. Pretty trashy, but hey, the tortoise don't care.
 

katieandiggy

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I was exactly the same as you, I saw my little guy and I decided I was buying him. He was being kept all wrong and so dry and I battled grainy urates for weeks but I’m glad I got him, he is loved by everyone.

Coco coir is good and my preferred substrate is fine grade orchid bark. I use a mixture of both, half of my enclosure is coir and half bark. Coir can be a little messy it gets stuck all over the tortoise but I don’t mind [emoji18]
Both are good at holding moisture and that is what your baby will need in the beginning.
I use a small terracotta plant saucer I’m my enclosure. Here is a pic.

IMG_3162.jpg
 
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NewHatchlingRussian

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I was exactly the same as you, I saw my little guy and I decided I was buying him. He was being kept all wrong and so dry and I battled grainy urates for weeks but I’m glad I got him, he is loved by everyone.

Coco coir is good and my preferred substrate is fine grade orchid bark. I use a mixture of both, half of my enclosure is coir and half bark. Coir can be a little messy it gets stuck all over the tortoise but I don’t mind [emoji18]
Both are good at holding moisture and that is what your baby will need in the beginning.
I use a small terracotta plant saucer I’m my enclosure. Here is a pic.

View attachment 252012
I was going to use one of those as well. I see there is a spider plant in your background, what are the other ones?
 

katieandiggy

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The others at that end are plastic vivarium plants that cover the 2 flower pots that he sleeps in, it just makes it more of a hide. The opposite end which you can’t see I have live cactus and sansseveira (sorry it’s probably spelt different) which are both edible but he doesn’t eat them.
 

NewHatchlingRussian

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The others at that end are plastic vivarium plants that cover the 2 flower pots that he sleeps in, it just makes it more of a hide. The opposite end which you can’t see I have live cactus and sansseveira (sorry it’s probably spelt different) which are both edible but he doesn’t eat them.
Nice. I have been looking into gettinf a prickly oear for my yard and some spider plants to out in some pots (or in my case tin cans with holes in the bottom). I also have some plants at my local park I want to know If I can feed him. I looked them up on all the databases but I can't find any entries for them. I will attach some below.20180919_163149_HDR.jpeg20180919_163045.jpeg20180919_163106.jpeg20180919_163134_HDR.jpeg20180919_162857.jpeg
 

Minority2

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Thank you for getting back to me. I have definitely heard more people saying sand is bad. I will mot be using play sand in his enclosure. However, I still must buy this tortoise. I must save him. Funny enough, the breeder recommended this site to me. Maybe he is a member here? I am definitely leaning for the humid side. I plan for both a dry and humid side, daily soaks and constant spray bottle soakage. I learned a trick from a friend to give the tortoise water without the danger of drowning. I plan to take a ziplock lid and flip it upsidown. Pretty trashy, but hey, the tortoise don't care.

I've heard of people using Tupperware lids. The problem with this is that it's too shallow for tortoises and can flip over from a growing tortoise's weight. Plant saucers are usually the best choice for an indoor enclosure water dish. It's heavy and will allow tortoises to crawl inside to soak themselves if need be.

There is no dry and humid sides. A space is either dry or humid. Humidity does not necessarily mean wet. It's the amount of water vapor that is present in the air. An area inside of another location such as a hide box may have more humidity but I wouldn't necessary say that a dry area within a humid environment is possible unless it is sealed off.

Some breeders continue to use outdated care because they themselves have yet to see enough evidence to think otherwise.This is not to say that they're completely wrong because tortoise care is always evolving. What's right now may be refuted at a later date. We're always learning new ideas, concepts, and practices. Best thing to do is to keep asking questions and to never take a seller's word on any specimens and or products without having some knowledge about the item in question yourself.
 

NewHatchlingRussian

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I've heard of people using Tupperware lids. The problem with this is that it's too shallow for tortoises and can flip over from a growing tortoise's weight. Plant saucers are usually the best choice for an indoor enclosure water dish. It's heavy and will allow tortoises to crawl inside to soak themselves if need be.

There is no dry and humid sides. A space is either dry or humid. Humidity does not necessarily mean wet. It's the amount of water vapor that is present in the air. An area inside of another location such as a hide box may have more humidity but I wouldn't necessary say that a dry area within a humid environment is possible unless it is sealed off.

Some breeders continue to use outdated care because they themselves have yet to see enough evidence to think otherwise.This is not to say that they're completely wrong because tortoise care is always evolving. What's right now may be refuted at a later date. We're always learning new ideas, concepts, and practices. Best thing to do is to keep asking questions and to never take a seller's word on any specimens and or products without having some knowledge about the item in question yourself.
I see. Thank you for the info. I feel overprotective, but I am so scared he will end up on his back and stuck. I will just have to deal with my fears and do what evrryone here says is best.
 

katieandiggy

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Mine had flipped over a couple of times when small, thankfully I was there.
Some people on here set up tiny cameras that they can watch on an app on their phones, that way you can peek in all day long! I wouldn’t get any work done!

With regards to plants in the park, b fire feeding any of them ensure that you speak to the grounds person and check that they haven’t used any kind of fertiliser/weed killer/ pesticide. Your best off growing stuff yourself. If you do buy plants from a garden store also check what has been used on them before feeding to your tort.
 

katieandiggy

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Post pictures of those plants in the plant identification section of this forum and someone will be along to tell you what they are.
 

Tom

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All very good advice on this thread. I just want to chime in with one more vote against sand, and for a sunken terra cotta saucer for food and water. Also, I prefer coco coir for baby Russians, and I with to fine grade orchid bark when they reach 3-4 inches in length.

The care sheets linked earlier are full of good tips, and this one might help too: https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/beginner-mistakes.45180/

Good luck and post pics of your baby once it arrives.
 

Yvonne G

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Hi, and welcome!

Here's my take on your original question:

It would be much easier to provide the correct environment for a BABY russian tortoise if you go ahead and make your table as you wanted to in your original post, but if you also make a divider that you can put across a portion of the table, side to side, that will give him a smaller space. You can then move that divider as he grows, making his space bigger.

Keeping a baby warm is a concern, and having him live in the larger space it would be difficult to make sure the whole space is warm enough. But if you put up a divider, it would be much easier to heat the smaller space. Naturally, a cover would also help.
 

Yvonne G

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On the plant pictures, the third one down is spurge. He can eat a bit of that occasionally, but not part of his daily diet. It is high in oxalates.

I THINK the last picture is lantana, but I'm not sure. Don't know if that's edible or not.
 

Carol S

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I use moist coconut coir and that is what I always recommend when I sell a baby Russian hatchling. I have been very happy with the results.
 
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