Guarantees

Kapidolo Farms · Oct 5, 2018

It may seem outta the range of possible, but I have seen poor husbandry kill a tortoises in one day. Invariably from too much heat and no way to get out of it. In a month by no water or soaks, and about the same time with no heat source at all.

I had taken many (100's) husbandry call questions when I worked at the Philadelphia Zoo. The interest to get is not matched by the interest to do well.

If ever someone had a reasonable narrative about an animal not doing well, and it's because the animal ended up not being a do'er even after the husbandry vetting they go through with me. I'd help that person out. That is so much the rare exception though. That's why I don't receive and ship neonates from collaborative breeders within a few days. I hold for 8 weeks and see how the tortoise is doing - is there active growth, do the stools (poop) look okay, does the tortoise respond to my presence? That's all critical to the whole of " I guarantee that I am putting a healthy vibrant tortoise in the box to be shipped to you."

On a few occasions shipping has been delayed, yet the tortoise still performs well for the recipient. That too is why I make sure I am putting a vibrant animal in the box.

KarenSoCal · Oct 5, 2018

Will said:
It may seem outta the range of possible, but I have seen poor husbandry kill a tortoises in one day. Invariably from too much heat and no way to get out of it. In a month by no water or soaks, and about the same time with no heat source at all.

I am speechless (and that doesn't happen often [emoji6]).

I wouldn't call this poor husbandry...I'd call it "gross stupidity".

Anybody ever put one outside for a few hours to "play in the snow"? Wouldn't surprise me now. [emoji22]

Pearly · Oct 14, 2018

KarenSoCal said:
I am speechless (and that doesn't happen often [emoji6]).

I wouldn't call this poor husbandry...I'd call it "gross stupidity".

Anybody ever put one outside for a few hours to "play in the snow"? Wouldn't surprise me now. [emoji22]

Anything is possible! People (some) often just DO NOT THINK past the tip of their own nose. It’s not that they mean to cause harm to the living breathing being, but they are so ... inwardly focussed, that it’s all about meeting THEIR needs and nobody else’s. I hate to sound like the „Cassandra” (the one from Troy) but I see MANY kids nowadays showing those characteristics. And us (the older dudes and dudettes) are watching it with helpless frustration. I know, I’m talking like my Grandma now, but it’s true! Today everything is easier, and gratification is expected to be INSTANT! With no effort, no time leading to it. My kids are avid iphone and macbook users, but they don’t know (rather don’t WANT to know) how to use a broom or rag to sweep or wipe down their mess... and it’s this same battle! Every day! Times have changed! I’m not necessarily saying it’s worse than when I was growing up in the 70’s &80’s. It’s just different! There is a fine line between teaching our kids some timeless values, code of ethics (about courage and honesty, perseverance, respect, kindness, etc) and blocking the Wheel of Progress. These kids’ drive to instant gratification is in big part what unchains their imagination and genious of future invention and progress. It wouldn’t be right to stifle that. I pretty much resign myself to the fact that I’m just getting old and there is already that big genetational divide between myself and my young children. And they are GOOD kids! but watching them I can see how easy it is to lose a baby tortoise... they too often fall victim to their egocentric way of thinking, inability to put needs if someone other than ME before my own. I don’t even blame those kids for letting all those poor baby animals die from their neglect and lack of adequate reasearch of proper husbandry. I think it’s us, the parents who so othen fail to be the Role Model in how to be a responsible pet owner for our new generation. I don’t even nag my daughter anymore about her daily chores in caring for those torts. I do most of the work, but she HAS TO HELP. Day in and day out. The food, the outside for daytime, inside for night, the food, the water, the baths, the heat/humidity, the weight/growth monitoring niw down to every couple of months... i always THANK HER for helping me (caring for HER pets). There was a time that I feared I’d have to put the torts in foster care for a while due to family/health situations, but my kids know how agonizing the decision on that had been, and everyday they watched me look for solutions/possibilities. These kids today have serious problem with things like a COMMITMENT. Getting a tortoise is a good way to learn about it, but again, this is up to us, the older generation to model that to our children. Teach them by example. Sorry about the rant. The thought of „cooking” baby torts in small enclosure where they can’t get away from the heat just got my blood boiling. But i know it does happen! That and other equally horrible things. Torts falling of hights, getting bitten by dogs, ingesting objects that end up blocking their intestines, females dropping eggs on hard floors with no substrate to dig in, babies with bite injuries from other torts living in one small barren enclosure, respiratory infections from cold temps, and vast array of other preventable things. I think that breeders sending weakly baby torts are much less prevelent than brand new, ill prepared keepers who bear responsibility for all those premature deaths. Btw I also HATE the idea of putting a baby tort in the box and shipping across state lines, but if they must ship, using well equipped agency for shipping live animals is much more acceptable. As prospective buyer I’d be willing to pay more in order to provide optimal conditions for my new pet. It is our responsibility to EDUCATE the public everywhere possible about humane and correct ways of handling those transactions. I don’t think professional breeder practices are the problem. It maybe more that “backyard breeders” or “brokers” (who buy in bulk for resale). To them it’s not about the welfare of the animals but just another place where there is money to be made.

KarenSoCal · Oct 14, 2018

Pearly said:
Anything is possible! People (some) often just DO NOT THINK past the tip of their own nose. It’s not that they mean to cause harm to the living breathing being, but they are so ... inwardly focussed, that it’s all about meeting THEIR needs and nobody else’s. I hate to sound like the „Cassandra” (the one from Troy) but I see MANY kids nowadays showing those characteristics. And us (the older dudes and dudettes) are watching it with helpless frustration. I know, I’m talking like my Grandma now, but it’s true! Today everything is easier, and gratification is expected to be INSTANT! With no effort, no time leading to it. My kids are avid iphone and macbook users, but they don’t know (rather don’t WANT to know) how to use a broom or rag to sweep or wipe down their mess... and it’s this same battle! Every day! Times have changed! I’m not necessarily saying it’s worse than when I was growing up in the 70’s &80’s. It’s just different! There is a fine line between teaching our kids some timeless values, code of ethics (about courage and honesty, perseverance, respect, kindness, etc) and blocking the Wheel of Progress. These kids’ drive to instant gratification is in big part what unchains their imagination and genious of future invention and progress. It wouldn’t be right to stifle that. I pretty much resign myself to the fact that I’m just getting old and there is already that big genetational divide between myself and my young children. And they are GOOD kids! but watching them I can see how easy it is to lose a baby tortoise... they too often fall victim to their egocentric way of thinking, inability to put needs if someone other than ME before my own. I don’t even blame those kids for letting all those poor baby animals die from their neglect and lack of adequate reasearch of proper husbandry. I think it’s us, the parents who so othen fail to be the Role Model in how to be a responsible pet owner for our new generation. I don’t even nag my daughter anymore about her daily chores in caring for those torts. I do most of the work, but she HAS TO HELP. Day in and day out. The food, the outside for daytime, inside for night, the food, the water, the baths, the heat/humidity, the weight/growth monitoring niw down to every couple of months... i always THANK HER for helping me (caring for HER pets). There was a time that I feared I’d have to put the torts in foster care for a while due to family/health situations, but my kids know how agonizing the decision on that had been, and everyday they watched me look for solutions/possibilities. These kids today have serious problem with things like a COMMITMENT. Getting a tortoise is a good way to learn about it, but again, this is up to us, the older generation to model that to our children. Teach them by example. Sorry about the rant. The thought of „cooking” baby torts in small enclosure where they can’t get away from the heat just got my blood boiling. But i know it does happen! That and other equally horrible things. Torts falling of hights, getting bitten by dogs, ingesting objects that end up blocking their intestines, females dropping eggs on hard floors with no substrate to dig in, babies with bite injuries from other torts living in one small barren enclosure, respiratory infections from cold temps, and vast array of other preventable things. I think that breeders sending weakly baby torts are much less prevelent than brand new, ill prepared keepers who bear responsibility for all those premature deaths. Btw I also HATE the idea of putting a baby tort in the box and shipping across state lines, but if they must ship, using well equipped agency for shipping live animals is much more acceptable. As prospective buyer I’d be willing to pay more in order to provide optimal conditions for my new pet. It is our responsibility to EDUCATE the public everywhere possible about humane and correct ways of handling those transactions. I don’t think professional breeder practices are the problem. It maybe more that “backyard breeders” or “brokers” (who buy in bulk for resale). To them it’s not about the welfare of the animals but just another place where there is money to be made.

Pearly said:
Anything is possible! People (some) often just DO NOT THINK past the tip of their own nose.

Pearly, I think you are correct on every point you made! Some people just don't think at all!

And I have a question for you...when did common sense cease to exist? Now we have to google every simple concept!

Kapidolo Farms · Oct 18, 2018

I'll help out a little here with others and members who did not see the thread...

http://www.gardenstatetortoise.com/terms--conditions
http://www.arizonatortoisecompound.com/Terms-and-Conditions.html
https://www.tortoisetown.com/7-day-tortoise-health-guarantee/
http://www.turtlesandtortoises.com/Terms-and-Conditions.html
https://www.cbreptile.com/guarantee/
https://www.tortoisesupply.com/pages/Terms-&-Conditions.html
https://myturtlestore.com/terms-and-conditions/
https://www.floridaiguana.com/terms-of-service

There are no doubt more.

I like something Chris has done on his T&C as follows...
In the event of an issue with your purchase, it is imperative that you contact us first and foremost. We want our customers to be happy and will work with you in a fair manner in the event that you are unhappy about something. However, it should not go without saying that if you take an issue to any of the online forums within this industry/hobby/community and attempt to publish a negative thread and/or post about Garden State Tortoise LLC and/or its affiliates, you will NOT RECEIVE ANY COMPENSATION OF ANY SORT. We MUST be notified first of a potential problem of any kind so that we get the chance to deal with it. Failure in doing so and by sharing our dealings with the public in a negative manner will land you with absolutely nothing. All contact from that point on will be stopped. If you have an issue, get in touch with us, we're very easy to talk to!

With so many keyboard warriors in the world this makes a great deal of sense to me, Chris is easy to talk to.

mark1 · Oct 18, 2018

I got no response until I posted a negative review , seems something happened to his initial "immediate" response , but after the review his e-mail seemed to work just fine …….……… I've bred dogs for decades , there were/are no terms and conditions , other than you proving to me you were qualified to own one , beyond that my only concern was the pup or dog , but then it wasn't about money to me , it was about finding appropriate good homes for what I didn't want ……. these guys would sell an animal into any and every condition with zero regard for the ability of who's getting them to care for them , but reptiles have always been disposable pets ……...

Kapidolo Farms · Oct 18, 2018

mark1 said:
I got no response until I posted a negative review , seems something happened to his initial "immediate" response , but after the review his e-mail seemed to work just fine …….……… I've bred dogs for decades , there were/are no terms and conditions , other than you proving to me you were qualified to own one , beyond that my only concern was the pup or dog , but then it wasn't about money to me , it was about finding appropriate good homes for what I didn't want ……. these guys would sell an animal into any and every condition with zero regard for the ability of who's getting them to care for them , but reptiles have always been disposable pets ……...

How many dogs did you ship?

mark1 · Oct 18, 2018

many , never an issue , national or international , to and from …….. I know many breeders that ship all over the world , I can think of none that have had an issue with shipping by air ……shipping problems is not my point , nobody ships a dog 2nd day mail …… my point is , oftentimes social media is the only way to get a result , I've seen it many times ……. every breeder I know of got someone who says they were screwed by them , having placed many pups , some folks deserve screwed , they want to discuss their issues in public , no problem , I assure you folks with common sense will see what's up , nothing to fear , unless just maybe you think there is ??????? as I said reptiles are seen by most as disposable , including most of the folks selling them , the money not so much ........dogs are seen by very few as disposable , shipper kills a dog , probably making the news …….. personally I think many folks sell animals they are having or suspect are having problems , they don't die in 7 days ………..

I've had some awesome dogs , not only looked the part , but for real , animals ……

the above dogue I believe the best ddb ***** I have ever seen …. I seen a lot ……….

her daughter

died at 11 from injuries sustained being stomped by a moose , what an accomplishment she was , beautiful animal …….

Guarantees

Kapidolo Farms

Well-Known Member

KarenSoCal

Well-Known Member

Pearly

Well-Known Member

KarenSoCal

Well-Known Member

Kapidolo Farms

Well-Known Member

mark1

Well-Known Member

Kapidolo Farms

Well-Known Member

mark1

Well-Known Member

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