Russian tortoise Grandmomma turned KaiKeeper

KaiKeeper

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My son got his girlfriend this little guy last year for her 20th birthday. Relationship has lasted almost two years but parents kicked the tortoise out within a few months. So we are raising a Russian tortoise which will out live us with no information except for what I have researched. Kai is almost 18 months and not terribly personable. Any advice about how to train him would be wonderful. He is beginning to outgrow the 70 gallon tank we have, once his “things” are added. I’m working on his people skills (he still pees on anyone who picks him up) is it possible to “potty” train our tortoise so we can start working towards dog/tortoise relations. We aren’t the type of people to give up on him. Kai is family. We just need to figure out how to communicate.
 

LaLaP

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Hi! Welcome to the forum. I have Russian tortoises too and they are wonderful!

Have you read these helpful caresheets?
https://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/beginner-mistakes.45180/

https://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/russian-tortoise-care-sheet.80698/

So I don't know if it's possible to potty train a tortoise but here's what I know that may be helpful..
Most tortoises don't love to be handled a bunch. I've built trust with my torts by hand feeding favorite foods and gently petting shells and necks. They used to squirm and fight when I picked them up because they were afraid (which is probably the reason yours pees) and now they don't because they trust me. Like any animal, they will be more comfortable with you if the interactions you share are pleasant for them.

I'm not sure what you meant by "dog/tortoise relations". A relationship with a tortoise is pretty different than with a dog.... dogs are very social and interactive with people but having a tortoise is a bit more of a spectator sport. They are so cool to just watch and they don't want to play fetch or do tricks! :)
Post pics of your new tortoise! We love pics!
 

Jacqui

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Hi! Welcome!

I think what you are asking about as far as the dog/tortoise relationship, usually doesn't work out, especially with a small one like a Russian. Even nice, old, never hurt a fly dogs some time realizes that their "buddy" is a slow moving, but utterly delicious chew toy.
 

Yvonne G

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Would it be possible to see a picture of Kai? Russian tortoises are a small species and they don't usually "outgrow the 70 gallon tank."

If that's Kai in your avatar, he's already full grown. But it's still a good idea to make him a bigger area to live in. Russians need a lot of space to wander.
 
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TechnoCheese

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Welcome to the forum!
When it comes to dogs and tortoises, there should not be a relationship, and they should never come in contact. That is a disaster waiting to happen.

Tortoises cannot really be trained, and certainly not potty trained. They aren’t dogs, and really don’t have the mental capacity.

Keep in mind that your tortoise could be an adult, and requires a minimum enclosure size of 8x4 feet. Where did you get this tortoise? Could we see pictures?

Please give these a read and come back with questions :)
Russian Tortoise Care Sheet https://tortoiseforum.org/index.php?threads/Russian-Tortoise-Care-Sheet.80698/

Beginner Mistakes https://tortoiseforum.org/index.php?threads/Beginner-Mistakes.45180/
 

TechnoCheese

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Would it be possible to see a picture of Kai? Russian tortoises are a small species and they don't usually "outgrow the 70 gallon tank."

If that's Kai in your avatar, he's already full grown. But it's still a good idea to make him a bigger area to live in. Russians need a lot of space to wander.

A Russian won’t outgrow a 70 gallon tank? That’s a 40x32 inch enclosure. Do you mean babies should be fine in it?
 

Yvonne G

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A Russian won’t outgrow a 70 gallon tank? That’s a 40x32 inch enclosure. Do you mean babies should be fine in it?
Because Russian tortoises are such a small species, they don't grow very much. Should he be kept in a 70 gallon tank? No, it's much too small. But will his body get to big to live in there (outgrow it)? No. But a sulcata would outgrow that tank. When the OP used the words "outgrow the tank" I was picturing a fast growing species, not a slow growing Russian.
 

TechnoCheese

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Because Russian tortoises are such a small species, they don't grow very much. Should he be kept in a 70 gallon tank? No, it's much too small. But will his body get to big to live in there (outgrow it)? No. But a sulcata would outgrow that tank. When the OP used the words "outgrow the tank" I was picturing a fast growing species, not a slow growing Russian.

Ah, I see what you’re saying. It would be pretty funny to see a Russian the size of a tank that big... lol!
 

RosemaryDW

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Welcome!

I imagine your tortoise will get more comfortable being handled as he realizes he's in a safe place overall.

That said, We can't expect the same kind of emotions and interactions we have with mammals. Russians definitely have strong personalities. Strong as in "I have no interest in humans whatsoever." They don't play games, they don't like hugs. I love to watch mine as she goes about her day; she could care less about me unless I have food.
 

KaiKeeper

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I see what everyone is saying now. Thank you for the information sheets. Those are quite helpful. I look up everything before getting an animal, even a different breed, so I feel totally unprepared for Kai. He is almost 18 months and the avatar is a close up of him. He is almost 5” wide, maybe less. We are designing a coffee table two tier enclosure for him, with safety ledges to stop the inevitable second story swan dive and subsequent face plant. Thank you for the advice on dog/tortoise relationships. I had thought about allowing him some roam time in certain rooms but not if my Jenna might treat him as a chew toy,
 

KaiKeeper

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Welcome!

I imagine your tortoise will get more comfortable being handled as he realizes he's in a safe place overall.

That said, We can't expect the same kind of emotions and interactions we have with mammals. Russians definitely have strong personalities. Strong as in "I have no interest in humans whatsoever." They don't play games, they don't like hugs. I love to watch mine as she goes about her day; she could care less about me unless I have food.
That’s total Kai’s personality. Food or rearranging his home are his happy triggers. Occasionally if I find that he’s “ done his business “ I’ll pull him out and let him race on our sectional and he loves that. I have to have someone home with me to do that though. He’s quick and Jenna is super curious. She’s an American Bully lab mix.
 

RosemaryDW

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At close to five inches, Kai sounds like an adult tortoise, not eighteen months. I thought that as soon as I saw his photo.

Was the tortoise purchased as a hatchling? Most pet stores don't know much about tortoises so it wouldn't be surprising if they got the age wrong, particularly because Russians are so small.

It doesn't matter much at this point, other than to confirm this might be as "big" as he's going to get.
 

KaiKeeper

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R
At close to five inches, Kai sounds like an adult tortoise, not eighteen months. I thought that as soon as I saw his photo.

Was the tortoise purchased as a hatchling? Most pet stores don't know much about tortoises so it wouldn't be surprising if they got the age wrong, particularly because Russians are so small.

It doesn't matter much at this point, other than to confirm this might be as "big" as he's going to get.

Really? They told Andy he would grow to 10” That’s a little disappointing. What else can we expect from Petsmart though. They do their jobs the best they can but they aren’t trained animal specialists. Do y’all prefer round lighting or should I look for tube lights for his new enclosure? And what “toys” do your tortoises prefer? How can I get him to stop pooping in his food bowl (that’s making me crazy)? Sorry for the million questions but he is being super ornery today. He loves being hand fed, but today he went carnivore and went for my finger not his mustard greens!
 

JoesMum

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Really? They told Andy he would grow to 10” That’s a little disappointing. What else can we expect from Petsmart though. They do their jobs the best they can but they aren’t trained animal specialists. Do y’all prefer round lighting or should I look for tube lights for his new enclosure? And what “toys” do your tortoises prefer? How can I get him to stop pooping in his food bowl (that’s making me crazy)? Sorry for the million questions but he is being super ornery today. He loves being hand fed, but today he went carnivore and went for my finger not his mustard greens!

Fluorescent tube UVB is better for torts. The compact UVB bulbs cause eye problems.

You also need a basking bulb, if that's what you mean by a round bulb, which must hang vertically and have 95-100F directly underneath.

They don't wants toys. They don't play. They want a properly setup enclosure in which to live.

Read those threads linked to earlier. They're written by species experts working hard to correct the outdated information widely available on the internet and from pet stores and sadly from some breeders and vets too. There's no pint us repeating that
 

RosemaryDW

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A male Russian going to ten inches would be quite a feat. They may have thought he was a different type of tortoise.

Tortoises don’t need toys and tend to see many objects as food/space competitors. Focus on a large enclosure with sight barriers and something to climb on.

Please read the care sheet for adult Russian tortoises; it will give you what you need for lighting and other enclosure recommendations. After that you can show us some pictures of your enclosure, for better feedback.

No advice on where they poop; they go where they go.
 

KaiKeeper

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A male Russian going to ten inches would be quite a feat. They may have thought he was a different type of tortoise.

Tortoises don’t need toys and tend to see many objects as food/space competitors. Focus on a large enclosure with sight barriers and something to climb on.

Please read the care sheet for adult Russian tortoises; it will give you what you need for lighting and other enclosure recommendations. After that you can show us some pictures of your enclosure, for better feedback.

No advice on where they poop; they go where they go.

That’s what I meant when I said “toys.” He just needs his racetrack, things to climb on, hide in or under, and areas to bask. I’ll reread those care sheets. Or print them for quick reference. Thank you for the advice and conversation. May you and yours be greatly blessed.
 

KaiKeeper

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Fluorescent tube UVB is better for torts. The compact UVB bulbs cause eye problems.

You also need a basking bulb, if that's what you mean by a round bulb, which must hang vertically and have 95-100F directly underneath.

They don't wants toys. They don't play. They want a properly setup enclosure in which to live.

Read those threads linked to earlier. They're written by species experts working hard to correct the outdated information widely available on the internet and from pet stores and sadly from some breeders and vets too. There's no pint us repeating that
Thank you for the help and advice. That’s what I meant when I said “toys.” Although Kai does have a ball he really enjoys pushing around, especially when I arrange his enclosure so he has a natural slide. He will roll it for hours. He is very observant. Sometimes I wonder if he is learning through Operant Conditioning. He might become my little study buddy. He’s not going to learn like a dog (well, maybe like Jenna, my American Bully Lab mix who is the ONLY animal I’ve ever had difficulty in training). They are equally uninterested and stubborn. We haven’t built the new enclosure yet. Finalizing our design is an issue when my husband and I are both artists, however I’m more practical about including Kai’s needs where my hubby is a little too concerned about the cool factor.
 

Cheryl Hills

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Pushing the ball around for hours is not play, that is aggression towards the ball for being in his territory. This is stressing him out. Not good.
 
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