Leoparcata tortoise. Tell me what you think.

kazjimmy

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No. Completely different

Leopard tortoise = Stigmochelys pardalis
Sulcata = Centrochelys sulcata

I’m not a scientist so I have to agree with you.
How do you define sulcata cross breed with leopard tortoise? If human keep leoparcata for few more generation. Shall we give them a new species name?
 

Tom

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Plz excuse my English. I am talking about people cross breeding turtles and making them a new creatures. I am taking about human hatching albino snakes.

I’m open to all the possibilities. However I am a pure breed fans.

When two different species are bred together and have offspring, those offspring are called "hybrids". They don't ever get a new scientific name, even if they keep making babies for decades. And most hybrids are not capable of reproduction. Mules, being an example.

An albino is just a color morph. There is not necessarily any mixing of species to get different color morphs. An albino sulcata is still just a sulcata, not a hybrid.
 

wellington

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Ok. I think 90% of tortoise fans don’t like the mix breed. Let me throw another question . Why human can accept mix dog,cat,bird,horse these kind of animal but not reptile?
Most humans would rather dog, cat, etc, not be mixed. There are a lot of idiots and/or irresponsible humans in this world. I'm never for mixing species/breeds.
 

kazjimmy

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Most humans would rather dog, cat, etc, not be mixed. There are a lot of idiots and/or irresponsible humans in this world. I'm never for mixing species/breeds.

Dogs and cats are mixed breed. I want to know what you think about the mix breed of tortoise.
 

Tom

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Dogs and cats are mixed breed. I want to know what you think about the mix breed of tortoise.
There cannot be a mixed breed of tortoise. There are no tortoise breeds. There are only different species of tortoises.

Dog breeds are all the same species. Different dogs are all one species. Different tortoises are all different species.

A dog is one species. Canis familiaris. A mountain lion is a different species. Felis concolor. These are not "breeds". They are different species.

In the same way, a leopard tortoise is one species, and a sulcata tortoise is a different species.
 

Yvonne G

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Dogs and cats are mixed breed. I want to know what you think about the mix breed of tortoise.
yes, dogs are MIXED BREEDS, but they are NOT mixed SPECIES! There are NO tortoise BREEDS, only species. I suppose if you breed different sub species of tortoise, like the different sub species of hermanni, it would be similar to interbreeding dog breeds, but the resultant offspring would be called intergrades.
 

Tim Carlisle

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There can be an entire new niche market out there for this. Designer tortoises. I can mix two or more breeds together, give them a cutesy / fancy name, and sell them at a premium just like they do with dogs. I can call my new shop "Mizcreant's Miserables". Folks seem to want to spend more if your name sounds French. Lol
 

KarenSoCal

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There can be an entire new niche market out there for this. Designer tortoises. I can mix two or more breeds together, give them a cutesy / fancy name, and sell them at a premium just like they do with dogs. I can call my new shop "Mizcreant's Miserables". Folks seem to want to spend more if your name sounds French. Lol
[emoji23]
 

Tom

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There can be an entire new niche market out there for this. Designer tortoises. I can mix two or more breeds together, give them a cutesy / fancy name, and sell them at a premium just like they do with dogs. I can call my new shop "Mizcreant's Miserables". Folks seem to want to spend more if your name sounds French. Lol
Sadly, the subject of your joke is precisely the subject of this thread.
 

Markw84

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@kazjimmy My biggest issue with this is that I believe we are guardians of turtle and tortoise species / subspecies. Some of the tortoises we keep now have more individuals in captivity than exist in nature. When we mix species and subspecies, we begin the process that could well lead to the total extinction of that animal. Look at leopard tortoises. Many strive to get the South African leopard. We are not even talking subspecies her any more, but a distinct animal many will recognize. However, in the US, it is now extremely hard to find, or know, if an animal is indeed a SA leopard as so many are simply put together with the "regular" leopards, and the recognizable characteristics of what we view as SA are disappearing. Galapagos tortoises in the US are mostly hybrids as well. The few imported years and years ago we kept together with no separation of species. Any successful breeding often produced hybrids to where today, it is very hard to find a true pure species of Galapagos. Order a Mississippi map turtle and you will likely get anything from a Mississippi, to a Sabine, to a False, and every combination of the intergrades. A true Mississippi map with it's striking round pupils is harder and harder to find as breeders simply keep all these species and subspecies together so often.

At the genus level, mixes "should not" produce fertile offspring. So hopefully that will help us keep some forms pure. But at the species and subspecies, and even population level, where we see distinct differences that hold true throughout, I would like to see us do all we can to keep those animals true examples of what exists, or existed, in the wild before we go down that path and realize - they have totally disappeared.
 

drew54

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I think where people get confused with this is the lack of understanding of taxonomy. When people hear dog or cat they can recognize two different species, but with other animals it gets difficult. People call apes, gorillas, chimps, etc all monkeys. We know that they are not all monkeys and different species. I see this with turtles and tortoises also. People think all turtles are tortoises and they are all the same and vice versa.

Most people look at animals and automatically forget about taxonomy. We look at fish as fish, dogs as dogs, birds as birds, etc. When you ask someone what type of animal they are looking at the popular response is "i don't know it's just a bird."

I believe these terms such as bird, cat, turtle, tortoise, fish, tree, etc. Have become umbrella terms. I think this confuses people when they look at breeds versus a species of an animal. Which is why most people will refer to a different species of tortoise a "breed."

We have become all too comfortable with umbrella terms that we don't often look at things in detail or as "separate" or "not the same." Everyone outside this forum I have discussed tortoises with have all been confused about the difference between a turtle and tortoise. They also, get confused as to what the difference between species are. I am often asked "other than the different shells what makes this tortoise different from this one? They are all tortoises so they should be the same right?"

I think that these are innocent mistakes as learning taxonomy is pretty difficult and a lot of Latin names to remember and distinguish between.

So, my point with this is that we can't always expect people to understand things that are simple or that make perfect sense to us if they are not well versed in those areas. Thus making it the educated persons duty to educate the uneducated.

Taxonomy is very difficult to understand and try explaining the different species of tortoise and turtle to a child. It's almost impossible. I get many confused looks when I'm asked to explaine something as simple as the difference between a turtle and a tortoise.

Anyway, breeding different species is s very interesting subject. Much like cloning and designer DNA. Such programs as "the baby maker" and alike are very fascinating, but how ethical is it?

Breeding different species to me just has too many risks involved. We could kill an entire as species in the process as many people have as already stated.

There runs the risk of genetic mutations that cause diseases and deformities. The process may not even work. It's interesting, but at this point in time I don't think it's very ethical or responsible to do so. There are already too many species of animals going extinct now that I would call it careless and ignorant. It's a cool idea on paper, but the risks are not worth it.
 

mark1

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I kinda doubt that many people who breed tortoises and turtles , are able to, and do , raise hatchling to adult hood , don't realize there are different species ? as far as sub species , I believe many are hard for folks who actually study such things to definitively separate without dna , and is the reason I myself believe that as far as replenishing endangered wild population with captive bred pets a half a world away is not doable …….
 

turtlesteve

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It's interesting to me that the topic of hybrids is so contentious. Hybridization of plants for ornamental purposes is ubiquitous and generally regarded as beneficial, and conservation projects are generally supported (for example, trying to back-cross hybrid chestnut trees to obtain a nearly pure american chestnut with blight resistance). What about hybrid food crops?

Then there's the program to save the "Floreana" galapagos tortoise (lonesome george's race) by back-breeding hybrids.... but the project acknowledges that the resulting tortoises will always be hybrids. Are we supposed to view the effort negatively? Or is this OK because we're conserving genetic diversity?

It seems like the hybridization is only frowned upon in this case because it's done to suit the desires of man - but this is the same motivation for myriad other things done to suit human desires. I'm not staking a strong opinion, but it seems to me that being ideologically consistent would require one to be opposed to quite a wide array of things.

I suppose I go by a "do no harm" criterion, but it's not always easy to draw the line.

Steve
 

mark1

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Then there's the program to save the "Floreana" galapagos tortoise (lonesome george's race) by back-breeding hybrids.... but the project acknowledges that the resulting tortoises will always be hybrids. Are we supposed to view the effort negatively? Or is this OK because we're conserving genetic diversity?

Steve

imo , you cannot save a species without maintaining genetic integrity , not diversity ? there are species that are resultant of hybridization , but they are considered neither species they resulted from , they are a species unto themselves …….
 
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