Won't hibernate

Sjnaturally

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We have two Russians who are now have a outside enclosure. They are still not hibernating! It’s cold out too! We are in Huntington Beach. Last winter we kept them in with lights on. I’ve never hibernated them before. Will they naturally do it? We have a dog house with coconut shreds in it they go in at night. During the day they are still sun bathing. It’s 60’s at its warmest. Help! :)
 

Yvonne G

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We've had an unusually warm winter so far. It's just not cool enough for them to brumate. I hesitate to advise about refrigerator brumation because I've never done it, but that's an option.
 

RosemaryDW

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Welcome @Sjnaturally! I am very close to you!

My tortoise was up a several weeks late this year as well, due to the warm weather; she didn’t go down until November 23. By go down, I meant that is when she started to dig down in earnest and we put her in the fridge. I think she would have stayed up later if we hadn’t finally had a few overcast days.

Are these wild caught tortoises? If it’s not consistently overcast and in the low fifties, they may not go down. If they are captive bred, they might not know what to do.

My reptile vet, who kept Russians in Anaheim growing up, does not believe they need to hibernate in this area, as long as they have a heat source (a dog house is not a heat source). His stayed up during winters and were all wild caught.

Now my outdoor Russian hibernates with or without me and I choose not to let her stay in our yard, as there is no place that stays dry from rain. Two years ago, when we had big rain, her chosen spot flooded at least twice.

Are they still eating? If so, they need to be up two more weeks anyway before any kind of hibernation takes place.

It will get dark and somewhat rainy (even in drought) eventually. You need to decide whether you want to improve their heat source—I suggest a heated night box or adjusting that dog house to ensure they have a heat source that lets them bask up to ninety-five as often as they want—or to bring them back inside to the enclosure you used last year.

You are close to the beach, like me. I personally believe Russians are too susceptible to respiratory infection to stay outside here in our coastal winters. Rain or shine, it is humid/damp and now it is damp and cold, which is very risky for them. If it was me, I’d bring them in and overwinter them. It’s too late for you to learn how to fridge hibernate this year.

Hibernation is a personal decision and you need to decide what is best for your tortoises. But you do need to make a decision soon.
 

Sjnaturally

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Welcome @Sjnaturally! I am very close to you!

My tortoise was up a several weeks late this year as well, due to the warm weather; she didn’t go down until November 23. By go down, I meant that is when she started to dig down in earnest and we put her in the fridge. I think she would have stayed up later if we hadn’t finally had a few overcast days.

Are these wild caught tortoises? If it’s not consistently overcast and in the low fifties, they may not go down. If they are captive bred, they might not know what to do.

My reptile vet, who kept Russians in Anaheim growing up, does not believe they need to hibernate in this area, as long as they have a heat source (a dog house is not a heat source). His stayed up during winters and were all wild caught.

Now my outdoor Russian hibernates with or without me and I choose not to let her stay in our yard, as there is no place that stays dry from rain. Two years ago, when we had big rain, her chosen spot flooded at least twice.

Are they still eating? If so, they need to be up two more weeks anyway before any kind of hibernation takes place.

It will get dark and somewhat rainy (even in drought) eventually. You need to decide whether you want to improve their heat source—I suggest a heated night box or adjusting that dog house to ensure they have a heat source that lets them bask up to ninety-five as often as they want—or to bring them back inside to the enclosure you used last year.

You are close to the beach, like me. I personally believe Russians are too susceptible to respiratory infection to stay outside here in our coastal winters. Rain or shine, it is humid/damp and now it is damp and cold, which is very risky for them. If it was me, I’d bring them in and overwinter them. It’s too late for you to learn how to fridge hibernate this year.

Hibernation is a personal decision and you need to decide what is best for your tortoises. But you do need to make a decision soon.


Thank you for your reply! I don’t know if they are wild caught!? I doubt it. We bought them at the reptile zoo in FV.

They are not eating. Izzy has all of a sudden been digging all over! I’m thinking she wants to hibernate.

Tonight I put some Timothy hay in their house and they loved it! Burrowed right in!

They were in a tortoise house last winter with lights, but they grew so much I. Don’t think it would be a good fit I would need two.

As for putting an outdoor heat source, that would be ideal. I just don’t how to do this?

Any information is greatly appreciated!
 

RosemaryDW

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I apologize in advance for the many words in this response; it’s going to be a lot to take in. :eek:

Most Russians sold in the United States are caught and imported from areas in or around Afghanistan when they reach their adult, or near adult size. They look very different from captive bred if you know what to look for; these are your first so you don’t know yet how to do this. :) You can give us pictures so we can know for sure but since you say they’ve noticeably grown, they are probably captive bred and were hatchlings or juveniles when you got them.

You are probably going to get a ton of advice from other owners on this forum about not keeping two tortoises together after they hit the juvenile stage; it’s not at all natural to them and eventually one of your tortoises will bully the other to death. It doesn’t matter the sexes. All tortoises are territorial and Russians are the worst. You don’t know how to look for tortoise bullying behaviors either right now, so I’m going to ask you to go on faith for this. This is hard news for most first-time owners to hear and most pet stores and breeders give out bad information, which makes it super confusing (sorry!). If the seller told you something like “tortoises need friends” or that “siblings can live together” when you bought them, they were wrong (sorry!). I have to get the bullying thing out there first, because it impacts what you do next.

If one of your tortoises is seriously digging down now, you very likely don’t have time to build anything; it will go down too fast (sorry!). It’s just looking for an acceptable space. It might go up and down for a few days but when they’re done, they’re done! This happens all the time, and in fact it happened to us within a week of finding our escapee tortoise on the street. She disappeared while we were looking for her owners. You won’t find them after they go down for real; they are too good at digging. All tortoises have the same middle name, “I do what I want.” ;)

In other words, I believe you need to bring it in to the old enclosure ASAP.

If the other tortoise is a male, it may take longer to dig, it might dig less deep, or it might stay up all winter. Another female might go down as fast as this one; you’re rolling the dice. So I believe it needs to come in as well (sorry!). (If your seller told you they knew the sex of juvenile tortoises, they were wrong about that as well, both sexes look the same until they hit sexual maturity, sorry!)

And since it’s dangerous for them to be together, you should think very hard about putting together a separate enclosure and put the other tortoise in it (really, really sorry!). It truly is not safe for one or the other of them to be together. Things can get ugly very fast. Put them in together only as long as it takes to build a separate enclosure.

If you persist in wanting to build a heated enclosure, this is the standard: https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/heating-an-outdoor-russian-night-box.116180/#post-1077261. Something similar, with the same kind of heat panel, but above ground. Yours doesn’t have to be as fancy but the height and heat levels are much easier to get right here than by refurbishing a dog house. You can ask search both options at length in the forum specific to enclosures, then post questions there. That’s where all the real experts are. :)

Again, I know it’s a lot to take in. I normally wouldn’t hit you with all this at once but your timeline is even shorter than I thought. (Sorry!)

And please don’t feel bad thinking you got things wrong. Almost everyone here started with the same bad info. Because many of us learned the hard way, we tend to give very strong responses to questions like yours. We want your tortoises to be healthy and safe, just as you do. Even if it means telling you things you don’t want to hear.
 

tortgirl5

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Mines an adult female, I have never hibernated her. Because her owners have never done it.

Not sure if we should give this a try next year?
 

tortgirl5

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Yes, mine was originally purchased from petsmart from the owner. Wild caught, i am sure ;(
 

RosemaryDW

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Mines an adult female, I have never hibernated her. Because her owners have never done it.

Not sure if we should give this a try next year?

If you’ve not done the full research and have a safe hibernation space for her (temperature wise), I suggest you overwinter her this year. Over next spring and summer you’ll have more time to decide what you want to do.
 

RosemaryDW

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Yes, mine was originally purchased from petsmart from the owner. Wild caught, i am sure ;(

She may, but now is not the time to figure it out. At least not outside. Do the research on inside hibernation to see if you have an internal space that will consistently stay below 45 degrees but not freeze. Otherwise, learn how to increase your lighting to twelve hours a day to keep her awake.
 

tortgirl5

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I have been researching about it. I know this is not the time for her. She’s been awake and acting normal. I’m just unsure if I should do this next year or not.
 

RosemaryDW

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Ah, I see. It’s great you have some time. It’s a hard question for sure. I’d worry about my tortoise wherever and however she hibernated. In the fridge I can keep an eye on her so after the original fussing with setting things up, hibernation is a little (tiny tiny bit) less stressful.

My wild caught tortoise is outside and follows circadian rythms; when the days shorten, she’s done. I think it’s important to follow these natural rythms, especially since she’s outside. I also think it’s not safe for her to hibernate outside in our damp, not very dry area. Illinois seems like a place that gets pretty cold so that might not be an issue for you.

You can adjust the rythms by enforcing a different and consistent light/dark cycle (the technical name for this is entrainment). That’s probably what you’re doing already? Plenty of long-term owners do it and their tortoises are perfectly healthy, year in and year out.

She doesn’t have to hibernate; it’s totally up to you. You just have to decide in advance what you want. :)
 

Tom

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We have two Russians who are now have a outside enclosure. They are still not hibernating! It’s cold out too! We are in Huntington Beach. Last winter we kept them in with lights on. I’ve never hibernated them before. Will they naturally do it? We have a dog house with coconut shreds in it they go in at night. During the day they are still sun bathing. It’s 60’s at its warmest. Help! :)
They cannot hibernate in our climate outdoors. The temperature is much too inconsistent and overall too warm. They need constant temps in the high 30s to hibernate. 60+ degree sunny days make this impossible.

On the other hand, our cold winter nights, especially close to the coast, are too cold and clammy for them to remain active and healthy. This "limbo" kills many tortoises.

You need to decide if you want to keep them up all winter in an indoor enclosure, with plenty of outside time during our warm sunny winter days, or if you want to actually hibernate them using the correct methods and temperatures.

And I agree with Rosemary. I'm one of the people she warned about. Tortoises, especially Russians, should never live as pairs. Its a recipe for disaster. These two need separate housing ASAP.
 

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