Ornate box turtle died

Bianca1975

New Member
Joined
Jul 5, 2019
Messages
2
Location (City and/or State)
Netherlands
Hi all, I just returned from work and found my 6 year old ornata box turtle male dead. He is stiff with rigor mortis so I can't open his mouth for clues at the moment. He was not ill at all so I am feeling guilty as I think it was all my fault.

Normally he was in his tank with some females but as I had 2extra females returned from the vet on tuesday, I put him in a plastic container with a water bowl and fresh water as of tuesday evening. It would be temporarely as the new enclosure is a good as finished. He was doing fine, no signs of illness at all. And today he is dead. His water bowl was dry and I am not sure if I had refreshed it between tuesday evening and today, but could that (max 2,5 days without water) be a reason he died? I feel really bad about the dry water dish, it is all because I worked wit a closed plastic container (of course with air holes but because it was closed I did not see everything), if I would not have moved him from his normal tank he would probably still be alive. Does anyone have an idea of what could have happened? My husband put the container outside today but it was not that warm, around 20 degrees so I don't think it was the sun.

For your background; the reason why the females were hospitalized earlier was that they had nose bubles and I also had a male at the time with serious breathing problems that died on the day I had found him already 2 months or so ago. The vet did an autopsy at the time and there were signs of viral infiltration. The vet also though of mycoplasma bacteria but per the vet this normally is not lethal. These issues started directly after hibernation a couple of months ago, it affected some adults but also some hatchlings, a couple of them died as well. since may, everything seemed to be normal again, the turtles were without issues and the ones that were hospitalized improved as well the last couple of weeks. This has been a horrible turtle year for me so far. I have had them already for >25 years without any dead animals....this year it has been 6 altogether (2 adults and 4 hatchlings).

Kind regards, Bianca, The Netherlands
 

Ray--Opo

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Oct 14, 2017
Messages
7,018
Location (City and/or State)
Palm Bay Fl
Welcome and condolences. I am not knowledgeable enough to give you advice. I wouldn't think a few days with no water has anything to do with it. Dont beat yourself up.
Good luck with your boxies.
 

Bianca1975

New Member
Joined
Jul 5, 2019
Messages
2
Location (City and/or State)
Netherlands
It's really hard for me to get the "what if" and guilty thoughts out of my head so I am really happy with your reassuring words, I needed that, thank you. Both of my males are now gone but I am happy to still have their offspring: this morning 2 ornate box turtles hatched and I have some more eggs in my incubator. I hope I can sleep tonight
 

Ray--Opo

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Oct 14, 2017
Messages
7,018
Location (City and/or State)
Palm Bay Fl
It's really hard for me to get the "what if" and guilty thoughts out of my head so I am really happy with your reassuring words, I needed that, thank you. Both of my males are now gone but I am happy to still have their offspring: this morning 2 ornate box turtles hatched and I have some more eggs in my incubator. I hope I can sleep tonight
It sounds like you have been doing this for awhile. When you feel up to it send some pics. Hope you sleep well.
 

Relic

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 8, 2018
Messages
538
Location (City and/or State)
Here
A couple of days without water is normal living for a box turtle in the wild. But the outdoors, in the sun, in a closed plastic container could possibly play a role. Enclosed spaces in direct sun can warm up surprisingly rapidly. I worked many years as a firefighter and can't count how many kiddos and pets we removed from hot cars on not-so-hot days, but with direct sunshine on the vehicle. If that was the cause of death, take heart, it's an easy mistake to make. AND it very well may NOT be the cause...if you keep pets long enough, death will occur despite your best efforts at husbandry. Keep your chin up and keep at it.
 

Michael231

Member
Joined
Jul 17, 2016
Messages
90
Location (City and/or State)
California
First of all, I am very sorry for your loss! In keeping turtles we all make mistakes!

It’s hard to say exactly what happened without an autopsy or gram-stain, but the direct sunlight idea is definitely possible. It sounds to me like some of your turtles may have passed around an infection of some sort. Whether this is the cause of death or not, I’m not sure, but Mycoplasma testudineum has been proven to be transmitted between animals (even between parents and offspring). The same goes for a viral infection, of which box turtles are commonly inflicted with.

Mycoplasma is a chronic infection, persisting for long durations. Like your vet said, in many animals the disease lies dormant, only becoming clinical when an environmental trigger sets it off. While I haven’t heard many cases of tortoises or turtles dying of mycoplasmosis itself, it occupies the immune system, making animals susceptible to other infections and in some cases causing animals to lack an appetite leading to other issues. With that said, studies have shown that heat can keep the bacteria in check, at least with desert tortoises. With this said, if your turtle showed no signs of discharge, lethargy, lack of appetite, or anything else unusual, I’d say it’s very unlikely mycoplasma was involved in death.

The same goes for any viral infection. Adenovirus, Iridovirus, Ranavirus, Herpes virus, and a ton more have been isolated in turtles in the genus Terrapene. However, to my knowledge most of them show clinical signs much like those of Mycoplasma.

I have heard of Nematode infections causing death without any clinical signs being present, and this could have been the cause. If you had a sandy substrate, impaction could have also cashed an issue.

Above you mention that he was housed with other females, did any of his house mates display any clinical signs of illness? Or were they ever housed with other turtles that did?

Also, what did the vet see in the autopsy? Was it inflammation on any specific organ? Or did they run an ELISA to test for Mycoplasma or a virus?

With this said,

Best wishes, and just know sometimes this stuff happens! We’ve all been there!
 

Yvonne G

Old Timer
TFO Admin
10 Year Member!
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Jan 23, 2008
Messages
93,389
Location (City and/or State)
Clovis, CA
The first thing that springs to mind when I read your post is the enclosure with a lid on it sitting outside. It doesn't matter that it wasn't very warm outside. The sun on a closed container quickly heats up the interior to cooking temperatures.
 

New Posts

Top