Hard dry poop

squirrelkitty

Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2018
Messages
73
Location (City and/or State)
Birkenhead
Hi, my Hermann's yearling has had a few very dry poops lately. They are also so thick that he had to strain a lot and I had to help him ease them out with some toilet paper. His poor tail gets dilated so much when he tries to push these bricks out, it looks really painful.
His temperatures are right.
He has a long soak every day.
He has drunk from his bowl a lot lately because of the hot weather.
He mainly eats herbs like dead nettle, plantain, dandelion depending on seasonal availability and also lamb's lettuce. Also some flowers, cactus and cucumber. No pellets or fruit.
He lives indoors with uv/heat lamp and CEM. Despite the recent heat wave, we had mostly cold weather this year and I didn't get round to building an outdoor run (which would be for playing only, not to live outside).

He tends to drag his food around a lot. Could it be that he has eaten too much coco fibre?
He has had lots of broad leaf plantain lately and I've noticed they have very strong fibres. Could these be responsible or do they get digested?
When he has this problem, he poops out one or two normal turds first and then the dry brick is stuck in his tail.


I will give him two soaks a day and feed him more cactus and dandelion, but what do you think is the more likely cause of the hard stools: coco or plantain?
 
Last edited:

JoesMum

Well-Known Member
10 Year Member!
Joined
Oct 26, 2011
Messages
21,606
Location (City and/or State)
Kent, South East England
How long is long? If poop is hard and dry then increase the length. At least 30 minutes with warm water that comes just up over the join between the shell and the plastron. And soak more than once a day. Cucumber can be fed to help hydrate too.

What’s the humidity in the enclosure? Do you have a water dish? What temperatures do you have? Is the substrate properly damp?
 

squirrelkitty

Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2018
Messages
73
Location (City and/or State)
Birkenhead
How long is long? If poop is hard and dry then increase the length. At least 30 minutes with warm water that comes just up over the join between the shell and the plastron. And soak more than once a day. Cucumber can be fed to help hydrate too.

What’s the humidity in the enclosure? Do you have a water dish? What temperatures do you have? Is the substrate properly damp?
He usually soaks for 20 minutes in the morning. Sometimes longer. The temps are as per the specs on this forum. He sits under the lamp and ceramic heat emitter most of the day and his shell feels warm when he's basked. Yes, the substrate is damp, but I can add more water to see if it helps. Can't tell you the exact humidity, but I spray him and the habitat several times a day. Yes, he has a bowl and has been drinking from it greedily during the heat wave. During the hottest days I also gave him another shorter soak in the afternoon.
I can give him two 30 minute soaks a day.
 

Lyn W

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Joined
Jul 22, 2014
Messages
23,497
Location (City and/or State)
UK
Hydrate his food well, I always soak the leaves for a while before feeding to revive them and to make sure my tort gets some water because I rarely see him drink.
Romaine lettuce is good for soaking up water, you can see the leaves swell when they have been standing in cold water for a short while, and although it shouldn't be fed too often it is a good way to hydrate torts.
Also does he have a big space for walking around in? That will help his digestive system move things along.
Many people use a kiddies paddling pool as a temp enclosure for some 'supervised' outdoor time. The sun's uvb will also help his digestion but make sure he has a shaded area so he doesn't fry too.
My leopard can go weeks without a poop in the winter when he is less active, but now he can have garden time and is on the move a lot he is much more regular with his BMs.
 

JoesMum

Well-Known Member
10 Year Member!
Joined
Oct 26, 2011
Messages
21,606
Location (City and/or State)
Kent, South East England
He usually soaks for 20 minutes in the morning. Sometimes longer. The temps are as per the specs on this forum. He sits under the lamp and ceramic heat emitter most of the day and his shell feels warm when he's basked. Yes, the substrate is damp, but I can add more water to see if it helps. Can't tell you the exact humidity, but I spray him and the habitat several times a day. Yes, he has a bowl and has been drinking from it greedily during the heat wave. During the hottest days I also gave him another shorter soak in the afternoon.
I can give him two 30 minute soaks a day.

Can you post a photograph of his poop. To see if it’s firmer than we expect. It sounds like you’re doing the right things.

A photo of the enclosure would help too
 

squirrelkitty

Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2018
Messages
73
Location (City and/or State)
Birkenhead
Hydrate his food well, I always soak the leaves for a while before feeding to revive them and to make sure my tort gets some water because I rarely see him drink.
Romaine lettuce is good for soaking up water, you can see the leaves swell when they have been standing in cold water for a short while, and although it shouldn't be fed too often it is a good way to hydrate torts.
Also does he have a big space for walking around in? That will help his digestive system move things along.
Many people use a kiddies paddling pool as a temp enclosure for some 'supervised' outdoor time. The sun's uvb will also help his digestion but make sure he has a shaded area so he doesn't fry too.
My leopard can go weeks without a poop in the winter when he is less active, but now he can have garden time and is on the move a lot he is much more regular with his BMs.
Yes, he has a big enclosure and also an indoor playground with a hill, a log etc. He does march around vigorously :), except when he is constipated and would most need it. I'll try the hydrated romaine lettuce.
 

squirrelkitty

Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2018
Messages
73
Location (City and/or State)
Birkenhead
Can you post a photograph of his poop. To see if it’s firmer than we expect. It sounds like you’re doing the right things.

A photo of the enclosure would help too
This is his enclosure. It can't be closed-top and can't have plants because he is silly and we need to be able to see him with a webcam when we're out. He falls over at the slightest provocation, sometimes even without any obstacles. E. G. He had a bit of substrate on his nose and tried to bite it, chased himself round till h es ended up on his back. The flower pot is where he sleeps and the stuff next to it is a swamp of sphagnum moss. He doesn't normally try to eat that, but of course, he could have ingested some. He likes to sit on it to cool down... and to wee. He also has a playground where he climbs under supervision for an hour or two at a time. But his dad has been taking him to the playground less regularly recently.
You can see his uv/heat lamp and the ceramic heat emitter. The other lamp is just for light if it's too dark in the room. His basking rocks are under the uv/heat lamp, but he's in his bath tub in this picture, which is removed right after the bath.
I will try to take a picture of the dry poo soon. But not all of his poo is like that. First he makes one or two normal turds and then the dry stuff. It's brown and textured. IMG_20190802_085552.jpgIMG_20190802_090005.jpg
 

squirrelkitty

Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2018
Messages
73
Location (City and/or State)
Birkenhead
Can you post a photograph of his poop. To see if it’s firmer than we expect. It sounds like you’re doing the right things.

A photo of the enclosure would help too
He's just made this poop which is harder than what he normally makes, but not as bad as the dry one that nearly bust his tail yesterday. He passed this on his own without help. IMG_20190802_091259.jpgIMG_20190802_091341.jpg
 

JoesMum

Well-Known Member
10 Year Member!
Joined
Oct 26, 2011
Messages
21,606
Location (City and/or State)
Kent, South East England
Actually I wouldn’t be too concerned about that. Plenty of fibre in it. That looks like a nice firm “getting a good diet” poop.

Keep up with what you’re doing, including the soaks.

I know you’re neurotic about him climbing and tipping, we all are, but at that size he really needs a cover over the enclosure to keep the humidity high and the temperatures correct and him healthy. You cannot regulate either as it is. He also needs plants/decor to break up sight lines and provide shelter to reduce stress.

Some people put a mini greenhouse tent thing over the enclosure. Something like this. Make sure the lights don’t touch it.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Verdemax-2490-Shelves-Azalea-Greenhouse/dp/B00KC0HZU6/
 

squirrelkitty

Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2018
Messages
73
Location (City and/or State)
Birkenhead
Actually I wouldn’t be too concerned about that. Plenty of fibre in it. That looks like a nice firm “getting a good diet” poop.

Keep up with what you’re doing, including the soaks.

I know you’re neurotic about him climbing and tipping, we all are, but at that size he really needs a cover over the enclosure to keep the humidity high and the temperatures correct and him healthy. You cannot regulate either as it is. He also needs plants/decor to break up sight lines and provide shelter to reduce stress.

Some people put a mini greenhouse tent thing over the enclosure. Something like this. Make sure the lights don’t touch it.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Verdemax-2490-Shelves-Azalea-Greenhouse/dp/B00KC0HZU6/
OK, I will see what I can get. Thanks.
 

squirrelkitty

Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2018
Messages
73
Location (City and/or State)
Birkenhead
OK, I will see what I can get. Thanks.
I think I could get him some perspex sheets to cover everything except under the lamp.
In other news, he's just nearly choked 'to death' on the cucumber that I gave him for his bum. Opened his mouth wide and said squee, stretched his neck out, did a dance... It was horrible. I'll always handfeed him cucumber from now on because he's too silly to eat it on his own.[emoji24]
 

squirrelkitty

Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2018
Messages
73
Location (City and/or State)
Birkenhead
Actually I wouldn’t be too concerned about that. Plenty of fibre in it. That looks like a nice firm “getting a good diet” poop.

Keep up with what you’re doing, including the soaks.

I know you’re neurotic about him climbing and tipping, we all are, but at that size he really needs a cover over the enclosure to keep the humidity high and the temperatures correct and him healthy. You cannot regulate either as it is. He also needs plants/decor to break up sight lines and provide shelter to reduce stress.

Some people put a mini greenhouse tent thing over the enclosure. Something like this. Make sure the lights don’t touch it.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Verdemax-2490-Shelves-Azalea-Greenhouse/dp/B00KC0HZU6/
I think I could get him some perspex sheets to cover everything except under the lamp.
In other news, he's just nearly choked 'to death' on the cucumber that I gave him for his bum. Opened his mouth wide and said squee, stretched his neck out, did a dance... It was horrible. I'll always handfeed him cucumber from now on because he's too silly to eat it on his own.[emoji24]
 

Lyn W

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Joined
Jul 22, 2014
Messages
23,497
Location (City and/or State)
UK
I think I could get him some perspex sheets to cover everything except under the lamp.
In other news, he's just nearly choked 'to death' on the cucumber that I gave him for his bum. Opened his mouth wide and said squee, stretched his neck out, did a dance... It was horrible. I'll always handfeed him cucumber from now on because he's too silly to eat it on his own.[emoji24]
Give very thin slices - almost transparent. I use a vegetable peeler to just lightly scrape the sides. Someone once told me that they shouldn't have peel and seeds so I take the skin off lengthways and take slices off the sides. Or I grate some which gives a nice soft juicy mush to put on his leaves.

I think he's going to need a bigger enclosure soon!
 

squirrelkitty

Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2018
Messages
73
Location (City and/or State)
Birkenhead
Give very thin slices - almost transparent. I use a vegetable peeler to just lightly scrape the sides. Someone once told me that they shouldn't have peel and seeds so I take the skin off lengthways and take slices off the sides. Or I grate some which gives a nice soft juicy mush to put on his leaves.

I think he's going to need a bigger enclosure soon!
Yes, I want to make him a bigger enclosure out of a book shelf, I'm trying to convince his dad. He does have the playground as well for exercise, but I've been badgering his dad about the book shelf for a while.
I've just ordered a perspex sheet and a hygrometer.
 

Lyn W

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Joined
Jul 22, 2014
Messages
23,497
Location (City and/or State)
UK
Yes, I want to make him a bigger enclosure out of a book shelf, I'm trying to convince his dad. He does have the playground as well for exercise, but I've been badgering his dad about the book shelf for a while.
I've just ordered a perspex sheet and a hygrometer.
You could cut holes for the lamps, I think there are examples in the Enclosures thread and they edge the holes with tin foil to stop burning.
 

squirrelkitty

Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2018
Messages
73
Location (City and/or State)
Birkenhead
Give very thin slices - almost transparent. I use a vegetable peeler to just lightly scrape the sides. Someone once told me that they shouldn't have peel and seeds so I take the skin off lengthways and take slices off the sides. Or I grate some which gives a nice soft juicy mush to put on his leaves.

I think he's going to need a bigger enclosure soon!
I've got an idea: I'll get a carpenter to make his adult sized enclosure for him and then he'll be sorted once and for all.
 

Lyn W

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Joined
Jul 22, 2014
Messages
23,497
Location (City and/or State)
UK
I've got an idea: I'll get a carpenter to make his adult sized enclosure for him and then he'll be sorted once and for all.
That would be great! There are some good ideas in the Enclosures thread.
4x8 is the minimum recommended size - but the bigger the better!!
 

squirrelkitty

Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2018
Messages
73
Location (City and/or State)
Birkenhead
That would be great! There are some good ideas in the Enclosures thread.
4x8 is the minimum recommended size - but the bigger the better!!
Yes, I was thinking 4x8 minimum. I will measure the spare room tonight and tell you what is the biggest we can go. His dad is terribly upset about the change, I think he's a tortoise, too [emoji23]
 

Lyn W

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Joined
Jul 22, 2014
Messages
23,497
Location (City and/or State)
UK
Yes, I was thinking 4x8 minimum. I will measure the spare room tonight and tell you what is the biggest we can go. His dad is terribly upset about the change, I think he's a tortoise, too [emoji23]
:D I think I am part tortoise too - I don't like change either!
 

Tom

The Dog Trainer
10 Year Member!
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Jan 9, 2010
Messages
63,264
Location (City and/or State)
Southern California
I see two different enclosures. Which one does he live in?

Constipation is usually due to:
  1. Lack of exercise/small enclosure. Doesn't appear to be your problem.
  2. Lack of hydration. With daily soaks, doesn't appear to be your problem, but I'd soak for an hour a day given the situation.
  3. Something they ate. I see moss in your one enclosure. That is the most likely culprit. The plantain wouldn't block him up and a little incidental coir ingestion shouldn't either.
 

New Posts

Top