PLEASE HELP!!!! (shell problem)

Cloeanthea

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04332E59-4E17-4EE5-9A59-E637C27078A4.jpeg
My sulcata has done really well in Phoenix for the last 20 years, we had to stop him from burrowing about 8 years ago after an incident where he got trapped in his burrow for 4 days. He doesn't need a burrow but he does need a covered space that can feel like a burrow (I added a picture of what he has now note it gets good shade to help stay cooler) and it's best to have dirt floors- you can spray water on the dirt floor every couple days and that will help create a more burrow like feel
Also I know it's hard in Arizona but he should always have access to water even if it's a smaller bowl than what he can soak in. Arizona is hotter and drier than their natural climate and they can do really well there-but they definitely need access to water all the time. If it's a smaller bowl, He'll put his head into the water and soak/drink when he needs it. Ideally you'd change it out every day to prevent bacteria growth but if it goes a few days it will be fine. View attachment 280647
wow thank you so much! I have a water dish for him now since I’ve taken over! Tucker has a covered space but he lives in the backyard and we let him openly graze and walk around! He has a covered home but it’s on a ramp and a wood pallet is the floor- we fill it with wood chips and dirt for comfort
 

Jules321

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That looks great! The ground itself is cooler and will retain more moisture, if you can enclose the covered space (bring the walls all the way up) and move it to the ground the space would be able to be cooler for him. Or try a few inches of dirt so he can nestle into it.
wow thank you so much! I have a water dish for him now since I’ve taken over! Tucker has a covered space but he lives in the backyard and we let him openly graze and walk around! He has a covered home but it’s on a ramp and a wood pallet is the floor- we fill it with wood chips and dirt for comfort
 
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Yvonne G

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I don't know if this would help, but it certainly won't do any harm: Paint the spaces between the scutes (the new growth areas), using a Q-Tip dipped in cold pressed coconut oil. Allow the oil to sit on the shell for about 15 minutes, then polish it off with a clean, absorbent cloth. Do it daily for a week or two, and after that you can get by with only once a month or so. The space between the scutes, where the new growth appears, is very similar to the cuticle on your fingernail, so a little lubrication might help it become moisturized and less brittle.
 

Cloeanthea

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I don't know if this would help, but it certainly won't do any harm: Paint the spaces between the scutes (the new growth areas), using a Q-Tip dipped in cold pressed coconut oil. Allow the oil to sit on the shell for about 15 minutes, then polish it off with a clean, absorbent cloth. Do it daily for a week or two, and after that you can get by with only once a month or so. The space between the scutes, where the new growth appears, is very similar to the cuticle on your fingernail, so a little lubrication might help it become moisturized and less brittle.
wow thank you! I can defiantly do this! I’ve been afraid to put anything besides water on his shell because I’ve read that in nature they don’t have things like that? Right now when I soak him I use a toothbrush to lightly scrub away any thing should I refrain from this because his shell is already flaking/growing ?
 

Neal

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I don't see anything in the pictures or from your description that would really warrant any urgent action here. I am happy to see you soaking your tortoise, and despite some of the scutes being irregular, he doesn't look too horrible at all.

It looks like your tortoise had some scutes that were either stuck together or this tortoise simply did not have a symmetrical scute pattern. I don't see anything that would indicate an injury. The way the scutes have grown and the areolas are positioned, all I see is a tortoise with irregular scute growth. Stuck scutes are not common, but irregular patterns are. I would expect a tortoise that was kept too dry would look very different than your tortoise looks, so my guess is that the flaky scutes are a result of the irregular scute patterns, or something more along the lines of a genetic issue, rather than anything environmental. If the problem were environmental I would expect to see the flaking issue be more pervasive rather than in that one area.

I do not provide my adult tortoises with any elevated humidity at all, despite all our heat and dryness here. They are kept well hydrated by always having fresh water and soakings now and then, but I don't do anything to elevate the humidity in their set-ups. I have only ever seen shell flaking like yours in maybe a couple cases, but it has always been on tortoises with irregular scute growth.

I like Yvonne's idea. There was a fella that used to be very active here that had a large leopard with stuck scutes. He tried everything, and the tortoise eventually began to have new growth in between the stuck scutes. I believe it was after he tried some sort of topical application like Yvonne suggested...I might be remembering it wrong, but do a search on the forum for posts by a member named yagyujubei, hopefully you will come across the thread I am talking about.

Look around at some of the other threads suggested to get some good ideas about husbandry. I would suggest that you start getting your winter plans ready. We were 70 degrees in Chandler this morning...cold weather is coming. :)
 

vladimir

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@Neal can you clarify what you mean by "stuck scutes"? Do you have any photos of examples?
 

Neal

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I say that to describe what I see when there appears to be no growth in between two or more scutes. Or very little/irregular growth in between the scutes like in the first couple of pictures in this thread.

There's a few threads that pop up when I do a search for "stuck scutes" on the forum. This one jumped out to me: https://www.tortoiseforum.org/threa...-leopard-tortoises-shell.168977/#post-1652551

Mark gave a good explanation on post #9 of that thread.
 

vladimir

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I say that to describe what I see when there appears to be no growth in between two or more scutes. Or very little/irregular growth in between the scutes like in the first couple of pictures in this thread.

There's a few threads that pop up when I do a search for "stuck scutes" on the forum. This one jumped out to me: https://www.tortoiseforum.org/threa...-leopard-tortoises-shell.168977/#post-1652551

Mark gave a good explanation on post #9 of that thread.

Thanks for the response. I've noticed Vladimir has had an area on his vertebral scutes that's a little irregular, and looks almost as if one scute is growing over the other:

upload_2019-9-17_12-58-4.png

Sorry to hijack the thread!
 

Cloeanthea

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I don't see anything in the pictures or from your description that would really warrant any urgent action here. I am happy to see you soaking your tortoise, and despite some of the scutes being irregular, he doesn't look too horrible at all.

It looks like your tortoise had some scutes that were either stuck together or this tortoise simply did not have a symmetrical scute pattern. I don't see anything that would indicate an injury. The way the scutes have grown and the areolas are positioned, all I see is a tortoise with irregular scute growth. Stuck scutes are not common, but irregular patterns are. I would expect a tortoise that was kept too dry would look very different than your tortoise looks, so my guess is that the flaky scutes are a result of the irregular scute patterns, or something more along the lines of a genetic issue, rather than anything environmental. If the problem were environmental I would expect to see the flaking issue be more pervasive rather than in that one area.

I do not provide my adult tortoises with any elevated humidity at all, despite all our heat and dryness here. They are kept well hydrated by always having fresh water and soakings now and then, but I don't do anything to elevate the humidity in their set-ups. I have only ever seen shell flaking like yours in maybe a couple cases, but it has always been on tortoises with irregular scute growth.

I like Yvonne's idea. There was a fella that used to be very active here that had a large leopard with stuck scutes. He tried everything, and the tortoise eventually began to have new growth in between the stuck scutes. I believe it was after he tried some sort of topical application like Yvonne suggested...I might be remembering it wrong, but do a search on the forum for posts by a member named yagyujubei, hopefully you will come across the thread I am talking about.

Look around at some of the other threads suggested to get some good ideas about husbandry. I would suggest that you start getting your winter plans ready. We were 70 degrees in Chandler this morning...cold weather is coming. :)
THANK YOU SO MUCH!!! Yes I’m planning on bringing out a heat lamp and moving his enclosure to the ground and bringing up the walls today! As far as the shell care goes I will do some further research on how to care for the scute but will probably go with the coconut oil- thank you for the personal reference, will be checking that out today! Do your torts burrow? I don’t think my tucker burrows at all, should I be worried? Also I use a toothbrush on his shell- is this a no because his shell is already flaking ?
 

Neal

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THANK YOU SO MUCH!!! Yes I’m planning on bringing out a heat lamp and moving his enclosure to the ground and bringing up the walls today! As far as the shell care goes I will do some further research on how to care for the scute but will probably go with the coconut oil- thank you for the personal reference, will be checking that out today! Do your torts burrow? I don’t think my tucker burrows at all, should I be worried? Also I use a toothbrush on his shell- is this a no because his shell is already flaking ?

My leopards don't. A lot of types do though, like sulcats. I don't think the fact that yours doesn't is anything to be worried about. There could be a variety of reasons, and some just simply don't do it for no obvious reason.

I don't think there's any problem with using a toothbrush to clean the shell. No need to be too abrasive with it, but a gentle cleaning should hurt anything.
 

Tom

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A few things:

  1. In hot climates like yours and mine, burrowing tortoises species need burrows to escape the extreme summer heat topside. If your tortoise doesn't make its own burrow, make one for it. Or start one and see if he'll get going on it that way.
  2. Cedar shavings emit toxic fumes and can also cause a blockage if ingested. You should remove those ASAP.
  3. Your tortoise is going to need a heated night box for winter.
  4. No heat lamps for larger tortoises. Heat lamps are for babies. Here are a couple of night box examples and ways to heat them safely and effectively: https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/another-night-box-thread.88966/. https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/my-best-night-box-design-yet.66867/
 

Anilasor

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You can always call Exotic Animal Hospital 623-243-5200. They may give a better idea of what is happening.
 

Toddrickfl1

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It would help if you could take some time to actually read up on this thread I typed up- despite the easy assumption of “not being kept warm enough” I don’t think that’s the problem here! Thanks!
SMH....
 

Nordys

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This was not helpful-

can you elaborate on why my tortoise “needs help right away” what are the things that stand out to you from the pictures above? His shell doesn’t smell or have any odor, it’s hard despite the flaking, he is active and eats mostly grass and cabbage with the occasional hibiscus leafs/flowers as treats. As I said above we live in PHOENIX ARIZONA, it’s not humid here at all it’s actually a desert! So with this information I hope everyone can please give some USEFUL advice instead of sending me to external links & or wishing me luck and saying he’s dying :)
I live in Phoenix also. Nordys is 1 year old and has been outside most of the summer. The sprinklers go on at 4 am (20 min) and again at 1:30 pm (5 Min) She is weighing in at 13 ounces. Eats grass, lettuce, yellow pepper , mulbuerry leaves, strawberries, dandelions, aloe vera and other cactus and any thing else I can find that is suitable. I will be planting petunias and pansy in her yard. She has a 4 x 8 play area. With two houses. One in the shade and one in the sun. So far she has a smooth shell and hard. I do soak her like 1 time a week. (of course she always poops in it) so I know everything is working. Let us know how yours is doing. Good luck
 

CuriousGeorge

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I'm doing something wrong because I am not getting any responses.
My Sulcata is 25 yrs old and healthy. What are the temp/humidity needs for a mature adult Sulcata?
I'm in Southern California and the tortoise is outside during the day and in a room with his own burrow at night.
It seems that most of the information pertains to young Sulcatas. Thank you for any info.
 

vladimir

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I'm doing something wrong because I am not getting any responses.
My Sulcata is 25 yrs old and healthy. What are the temp/humidity needs for a mature adult Sulcata?
I'm in Southern California and the tortoise is outside during the day and in a room with his own burrow at night.
It seems that most of the information pertains to young Sulcatas. Thank you for any info.

Hi @CuriousGeorge

My sulcata is only 5, but I believe the minimum temperature year round is about 80F for an adult sulcata.

For humidity, the more the better, but it's not very easy to provide a humid environment for an adult sulcata.

Anyone else have any thoughts?
 

Jules321

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Once adults like yours, 40% humidity is good, so in general you dont need to try to create or change it.
I'm doing something wrong because I am not getting any responses.
My Sulcata is 25 yrs old and healthy. What are the temp/humidity needs for a mature adult Sulcata?
I'm in Southern California and the tortoise is outside during the day and in a room with his own burrow at night.
It seems that most of the information pertains to young Sulcatas. Thank you for any info.
 

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