Andromeda (now Marco) the Aldabra Tortoise

Tolis

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I have neglected this thread for a while so I figured I should share how Marco is doing.

When the night temp started falling to 50-60F in the autumn I had to dig him out every single evening from whatever bush he was hiding to put him in his box. Every night he chose a different hide because the last one was compromised. It was dark, muddy, really not fun. Thankfully when winter arrived he understood that its cold outside so he only comes out to eat, sunbathe, and then back inside. He now spends 20 hours per day in his box. He is still very skittish and has replaced the bushes with the box, his new sanctuary.

The ink bird temp controller is very good, it has not failed once and very rarely goes offline. The only issue I have is there's a bug in the application it doesn't save the heating hysteresis temperature I input but I can live with it, it is set on 3C I wanted to do it 1C to keep the temp fluctuation even lower but it's still acceptable. I know I can do it manually but I've been lazy on that. I got a second one to add as a redundancy just in case the first one malfunctions I don't want to boil the tort.

I have not given him baths all winter, I was worried he might catch a cold. In a shallow container outdoors the water temp suddenly drops after only 2-3 minutes so I didn't feel like risking it. Now spring is around the corner and baths will resume. The greek torts woke up and started mating last week, my tulips are poking through the ground, winter has finally passed!

I have not weighed him recently because he outgrew the kitchen scale I was using, I am planning to get another scale and weigh him at some point. He is obviously growing though, still can't imagine he will outgrow my dog in a few years but he definitely at least doubled in size and gained a lot of weight as well. I have recently undergone a spine surgery and the doctor told me I should not lift more than 5kg for the rest of my life. Sadly, I am into gardening and giant torts, at this point I can safely say I hate my body. On the other hand, I have a 4-month-old son now, and hopefully, he will be helping me with the tort when I am old and weak. Maybe one day, his son will be helping him to take care of the tort too :)

GIF-f3d32fefa17463aeb1dcd3dc6d5a08b8.gif

I've been spoiling him with artichokes, he can't have enough of them. It's his new obsession. I boil them to get them softer and easier to digest but not too much so they don't lose many nutrients.

Winter season food also includes mallow, hibiscus, opuntia cactus. I hope the variety is enough, in the summer the diet will be more diverse.

I stopped feeding him legumes after finding out it's not good but I was not giving him more than once or twice a month so I'm not worried about him developing any issues from that. I haven't put calcium powder on his food after losing the bottle, I was hoping I find it instead of buying more, I know it's not good and I need to get some asap. If you know how much and how often I should add to his food please let me know. I feel like I was overdoing it in the past.

0-02-0b-35a9fb3824cfd8afee393cdae8141bb16ee4cf99d581dda2b9fd575a3f71063d_2c49b304dbffe4ab.jpg

I planted grass in his enclosure but he never eats any. He doesn't eat collard greens either which grows abundantly in the yard. So spoiled.

GIF-75a3bf78b23ab542f893465f2b04cee9.gif

I finally put a proper camera in his box that sends me notifications whenever he leaves and returns to his box so now I can better monitor his routine and make sure everything is normal.

0-02-0b-e44ab2d1805490f8e0603ec41b26177741c6d52945b944d37e057ee01c7c68b1_8aa81de37b733535.jpg

This is his parking spot (temp sensor hanging above him). He is ALWAYS chilling in this corner next to the oil heater. Very convenient because I can just open the second door and check if he is home without lifting the heavy lid.

Well, that's all for now I suppose. I will post again with plastron length measurements and weight when I get a scale. I actually lost my previous records and was able to retrieve them from this thread. Documenting his life here helps me keep track of everything and maybe one day will serve as a reference for a future Aldabra owner.

Hope your torts are happy and well too!
 

Sue Ann

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I have neglected this thread for a while so I figured I should share how Marco is doing.

When the night temp started falling to 50-60F in the autumn I had to dig him out every single evening from whatever bush he was hiding to put him in his box. Every night he chose a different hide because the last one was compromised. It was dark, muddy, really not fun. Thankfully when winter arrived he understood that its cold outside so he only comes out to eat, sunbathe, and then back inside. He now spends 20 hours per day in his box. He is still very skittish and has replaced the bushes with the box, his new sanctuary.

The ink bird temp controller is very good, it has not failed once and very rarely goes offline. The only issue I have is there's a bug in the application it doesn't save the heating hysteresis temperature I input but I can live with it, it is set on 3C I wanted to do it 1C to keep the temp fluctuation even lower but it's still acceptable. I know I can do it manually but I've been lazy on that. I got a second one to add as a redundancy just in case the first one malfunctions I don't want to boil the tort.

I have not given him baths all winter, I was worried he might catch a cold. In a shallow container outdoors the water temp suddenly drops after only 2-3 minutes so I didn't feel like risking it. Now spring is around the corner and baths will resume. The greek torts woke up and started mating last week, my tulips are poking through the ground, winter has finally passed!

I have not weighed him recently because he outgrew the kitchen scale I was using, I am planning to get another scale and weigh him at some point. He is obviously growing though, still can't imagine he will outgrow my dog in a few years but he definitely at least doubled in size and gained a lot of weight as well. I have recently undergone a spine surgery and the doctor told me I should not lift more than 5kg for the rest of my life. Sadly, I am into gardening and giant torts, at this point I can safely say I hate my body. On the other hand, I have a 4-month-old son now, and hopefully, he will be helping me with the tort when I am old and weak. Maybe one day, his son will be helping him to take care of the tort too :)

View attachment 341120

I've been spoiling him with artichokes, he can't have enough of them. It's his new obsession. I boil them to get them softer and easier to digest but not too much so they don't lose many nutrients.

Winter season food also includes mallow, hibiscus, opuntia cactus. I hope the variety is enough, in the summer the diet will be more diverse.

I stopped feeding him legumes after finding out it's not good but I was not giving him more than once or twice a month so I'm not worried about him developing any issues from that. I haven't put calcium powder on his food after losing the bottle, I was hoping I find it instead of buying more, I know it's not good and I need to get some asap. If you know how much and how often I should add to his food please let me know. I feel like I was overdoing it in the past.

View attachment 341121

I planted grass in his enclosure but he never eats any. He doesn't eat collard greens either which grows abundantly in the yard. So spoiled.

View attachment 341124

I finally put a proper camera in his box that sends me notifications whenever he leaves and returns to his box so now I can better monitor his routine and make sure everything is normal.

View attachment 341125

This is his parking spot (temp sensor hanging above him). He is ALWAYS chilling in this corner next to the oil heater. Very convenient because I can just open the second door and check if he is home without lifting the heavy lid.

Well, that's all for now I suppose. I will post again with plastron length measurements and weight when I get a scale. I actually lost my previous records and was able to retrieve them from this thread. Documenting his life here helps me keep track of everything and maybe one day will serve as a reference for a future Aldabra owner.

Hope your torts are happy and well too!
He looks big and beautiful! Love all your plants in his space. Wonder if I can add more plants to Dexter my Sulcata space?
 

Tolis

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He looks big and beautiful! Love all your plants in his space. Wonder if I can add more plants to Dexter my Sulcata space?à

He looks big and beautiful! Love all your plants in his space. Wonder if I can add more plants to Dexter my Sulcata space?
Plants are always a good addition to any enclosure! Go for something bushy and low maintenance to provide shelter year-round and in spring maybe throw some lettuce seeds for him to munch on if you dont want to worry about having to mow the lawn
 

Big Ron

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I have neglected this thread for a while so I figured I should share how Marco is doing.

When the night temp started falling to 50-60F in the autumn I had to dig him out every single evening from whatever bush he was hiding to put him in his box. Every night he chose a different hide because the last one was compromised. It was dark, muddy, really not fun. Thankfully when winter arrived he understood that its cold outside so he only comes out to eat, sunbathe, and then back inside. He now spends 20 hours per day in his box. He is still very skittish and has replaced the bushes with the box, his new sanctuary.

The ink bird temp controller is very good, it has not failed once and very rarely goes offline. The only issue I have is there's a bug in the application it doesn't save the heating hysteresis temperature I input but I can live with it, it is set on 3C I wanted to do it 1C to keep the temp fluctuation even lower but it's still acceptable. I know I can do it manually but I've been lazy on that. I got a second one to add as a redundancy just in case the first one malfunctions I don't want to boil the tort.

I have not given him baths all winter, I was worried he might catch a cold. In a shallow container outdoors the water temp suddenly drops after only 2-3 minutes so I didn't feel like risking it. Now spring is around the corner and baths will resume. The greek torts woke up and started mating last week, my tulips are poking through the ground, winter has finally passed!

I have not weighed him recently because he outgrew the kitchen scale I was using, I am planning to get another scale and weigh him at some point. He is obviously growing though, still can't imagine he will outgrow my dog in a few years but he definitely at least doubled in size and gained a lot of weight as well. I have recently undergone a spine surgery and the doctor told me I should not lift more than 5kg for the rest of my life. Sadly, I am into gardening and giant torts, at this point I can safely say I hate my body. On the other hand, I have a 4-month-old son now, and hopefully, he will be helping me with the tort when I am old and weak. Maybe one day, his son will be helping him to take care of the tort too :)

View attachment 341120

I've been spoiling him with artichokes, he can't have enough of them. It's his new obsession. I boil them to get them softer and easier to digest but not too much so they don't lose many nutrients.

Winter season food also includes mallow, hibiscus, opuntia cactus. I hope the variety is enough, in the summer the diet will be more diverse.

I stopped feeding him legumes after finding out it's not good but I was not giving him more than once or twice a month so I'm not worried about him developing any issues from that. I haven't put calcium powder on his food after losing the bottle, I was hoping I find it instead of buying more, I know it's not good and I need to get some asap. If you know how much and how often I should add to his food please let me know. I feel like I was overdoing it in the past.

View attachment 341121

I planted grass in his enclosure but he never eats any. He doesn't eat collard greens either which grows abundantly in the yard. So spoiled.

View attachment 341124

I finally put a proper camera in his box that sends me notifications whenever he leaves and returns to his box so now I can better monitor his routine and make sure everything is normal.

View attachment 341125

This is his parking spot (temp sensor hanging above him). He is ALWAYS chilling in this corner next to the oil heater. Very convenient because I can just open the second door and check if he is home without lifting the heavy lid.

Well, that's all for now I suppose. I will post again with plastron length measurements and weight when I get a scale. I actually lost my previous records and was able to retrieve them from this thread. Documenting his life here helps me keep track of everything and maybe one day will serve as a reference for a future Aldabra owner.

Hope your torts are happy and well too!
He looks like you are giving him a great home and plenty of good food and he looks healthy and is very beautiful :)
 

Tolis

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It's been a while since I posted and since I have an advice from my recent experience this winter I figured I should share with other tort keepers.

Last winter I had the thermostat set to allow for a 3 degree celcius fluctuation before starting the oil heater again. I figured the less times it goes on and off the less chance of breaking down.

The temp would keep falling until the heater could catch up meaning the final fluctuation was more like 6-7 C.

This winter I keep the thermostat fluctuation set to 1 C. This allows for incredibly stable temps with minimum fluctuations.

Another new habit is that I stopped locking the tort in every night. I know this might receive some criticism but I am checking the tort all the time through the camera and I have motion alarms set so in the case it decides to leave the shelter, unless it's between 2-6am when I'm in deep sleep, I will go for the rescue.

I check its routine through motion alerts and I know during winter it only come out between 11am-1pm to eat and bask. It doesnt want to be outside any more than that even if it's a sunny winter day.
Summer is a whole different story however, it never enters the box its always hiding under a bush somewhere.

So no more stepping in the mud every night in the rain and being alert not to forget to open the door before leaving for work. Keeping an aldabra is now 95% easier.
I understand the risks of it leaving the box at night and freezing to death but during the few years I have it never attempted to that, especially at night when its so cold the only movement is getting closer to the heater. Sure reptiles can act dump some times but this basic survival instinct seems to working flawlessly till now.

I will of course keep checking on him every night through the camera when in bed and keep checking the motion alert clips to keep track of the day to day habits.

Here's a recent pic. It's growing fast even during winter time.
 

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wellington

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How low does your daily temps usually get that he still goes out in?
The only inside enclosure is that box/hide? How big is it? Seems awful small to have to spend so much time in.
 

Tolis

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How low does your daily temps usually get that he still goes out in?
The only inside enclosure is that box/hide? How big is it? Seems awful small to have to spend so much
Highest temps reach 55-60 F thats between 11am-3pm. Lowest is 38-40 F, pretty cold but not enough to ever snow of form ice. Winter is short and strong, we get around 40 days of rainfall every year and this is that season now so it's not as sunny as normally.

Even after 2 years he is still very skittish, he feels safe in the box and returns as soon as he finishes him meal and get a couple of hours of basking. I think it's more of a sanctuary than a small cell for him. Perhaps I should be handling him more to get him used to me, but I dont want to stress him so I give him space. Hopefully we will have decades ahead to interact so I dont mind giving him space for a few years, its not a dog to pet and I respect that. He has improved a little bit but not much. He used to run to hide as soon as he saw me, now he even allows to place food around him without running but doesnt eat until Im gone just still watching me fearfully. A friend from Hungary who had an aldabra had the same issue for years and he is convinced it's because it was alone and the should be in pairs or more. He gave him away and instantly change character when he joined a group. I took the advice of experienced keepers on this forum and made the choise to get only 1. Hopefully my friend is proven wrong in the future.

The box was way to big for him 2 years ago but not anymore, they grow so fast! I am in the process of building my own house at the moment and I will build him a forever home there, something big enough to comfortably house an adult male. I asked aldabraman and frank bascucci what size/dimensions should I build it but neither bothered to reply, not sure why. If you can share your opinion it is much welcome. So is yours @Tom @Yvonne G. I certainly want something tall for me to stand inside so I can clean it easily.
 

wellington

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Highest temps reach 55-60 F thats between 11am-3pm. Lowest is 38-40 F, pretty cold but not enough to ever snow of form ice. Winter is short and strong, we get around 40 days of rainfall every year and this is that season now so it's not as sunny as normally.

Even after 2 years he is still very skittish, he feels safe in the box and returns as soon as he finishes him meal and get a couple of hours of basking. I think it's more of a sanctuary than a small cell for him. Perhaps I should be handling him more to get him used to me, but I dont want to stress him so I give him space. Hopefully we will have decades ahead to interact so I dont mind giving him space for a few years, its not a dog to pet and I respect that. He has improved a little bit but not much. He used to run to hide as soon as he saw me, now he even allows to place food around him without running but doesnt eat until Im gone just still watching me fearfully. A friend from Hungary who had an aldabra had the same issue for years and he is convinced it's because it was alone and the should be in pairs or more. He gave him away and instantly change character when he joined a group. I took the advice of experienced keepers on this forum and made the choise to get only 1. Hopefully my friend is proven wrong in the future.

The box was way to big for him 2 years ago but not anymore, they grow so fast! I am in the process of building my own house at the moment and I will build him a forever home there, something big enough to comfortably house an adult male. I asked aldabraman and frank bascucci what size/dimensions should I build it but neither bothered to reply, not sure why. If you can share your opinion it is much welcome. So is yours @Tom @Yvonne G. I certainly want something tall for me to stand inside so I can clean it easily.
Glad you are making something bigger. I think a 20x20 would be big enough for one, just a guess. I used to know the size of Aldabramans old tortoise shed. It was big, but it was also for 11 adults. They wouldn't have had much room to walk around if they had to all stay in it for any amount of time though, which probably didn't happen much if at all. I guess go bigger if you can. @Yvonne G had two, maybe she can share the size shed she had. Keep in mind though that her temps don't get as cold as yours. I'm surprised you let yours go out in such cold temps and haven't had problems. In the wild they don't ever get to that low of temps.
Be sure to share the new build.
 
Last edited:

Tolis

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Glad you are making something bigger. I think a 20x20 would be big enough for one, just a guess. I used to know the size of Aldabramans old tortoise shed. It was big, but it was also for 11 adults. They wouldn't have had much room to walk around if they had to all stay in it for any amount of time though, which probably didn't happen much if at all. I guess go bigger if you can. @Yvonne G had two, maybe she can share the size shed she had. Keep in mind though that her temps don't get as cold as yours. I'm surprised you let yours go out in such cold temps and haven't had problems. In the wild they don't ever get to that low of temps.
Be sure to share the new build.
The friend from Hungary where it's way colder year round has a bunch of radiated that live happily mow the garden during the daytime and breed successfully for years. I know 2 other cases of aldabras thriving in Cyprus, 2 are in the zoo in Paphos and one in Larnaca:


https://www.instagram.com/p/CkWH8cmNRvK/?igshid=MDJmNzVkMjY=

It's sad that he lives confined for 4 months every year but he is loving life from March-December.

I am glad you answered, I was planning for something way smaller like 10x10 ft, I didnt know he needed that much space for bed time. I figured the bigger it is the harder to keep warm. Is it really necessary to that big? @Yvonne G @ALDABRAMAN @Tom
 

wellington

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The friend from Hungary where it's way colder year round has a bunch of radiated that live happily mow the garden during the daytime and breed successfully for years. I know 2 other cases of aldabras thriving in Cyprus, 2 are in the zoo in Paphos and one in Larnaca:


https://www.instagram.com/p/CkWH8cmNRvK/?igshid=MDJmNzVkMjY=

It's sad that he lives confined for 4 months every year but he is loving life from March-December.

I am glad you answered, I was planning for something way smaller like 10x10 ft, I didnt know he needed that much space for bed time. I figured the bigger it is the harder to keep warm. Is it really necessary to that big? @Yvonne G @ALDABRAMAN @Tom
The way you are housing him, letting him go outside in such cold temps is not recommended and so a big enclosure would be needed so he would have room to walk around and keep his muscles strong and digestive system working properly during the cold months. No one I know of that has or doesn't have Aldabras would ever recommend letting one out it such cold temps, specially without a big enclosure for those days that are too cold, no sun and cold and rainy, where he really shouldn't be let out. Maybe an adult can handle cooler temps here and there but really risky for a young one.
I guess if you want to continue in the way you are, a smaller enclosure would work for you.
Yes smaller is easier to heat. I have a big tort shed. I use portable oil filled heaters 24/7 in winter and they have basking lights on daily. I also use a ceiling fan on 24/7 in winter to push warm air/heat back to the floor area.
I'd love to know if your friend and the zoo you mentioned has big enclosures or do they offer only enough space to get into?
I hope @ALDABRAMAN answers here. Maybe he has some insite about cold temps and housing size and possibly knows of others that let's their Aldabras go out in those kinds of temps.
Keep us updated.
 

dd33

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We are in Florida so it doesn't get that cold but we have a few days in the 40s each year and plenty of days in the 50s. Our Aldabras come out to eat no matter the temperature and they warm up very quickly in the sun. As long as the sun is shining I no longer worry much about them being out in the 40-60 degree range.

As far as housing for a single adult animal, I think you would be fine with something 8x8 or possibly even a bit smaller. As long as he can walk in, turn around and get back out it will be big enough. If you are using a heat pad on the bottom it would need to be large enough for him to get off the pad in multiple directions. This size would only work for an animal that has good enough weather to get out of the night box every day though. If it needed to be locked in for days on end you would need much much larger.
 
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Maggie3fan

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A friend who raised an aldabra from hatchling says that it was scared of him even when it grew up to be 30kg. Ever since he moved it to another place with other aldabras he saw a completely different character it is way more outgoing and friendly. Is there anyone on the forum that has only 1 aldabra that share his own experience? Please tag them if you know someone
That experience is NOT limited to your MEP...All small tortoises know they are prey...and YOU are the predator. My Mary Knobbins knows I am the food goddess, yet she hides from me. She's a 45 pound Sulcata.
For smaller tortoises I useDSCN1095.JPG a mini greenhouse installed over a tort table The temp stays consistently 90 degrees w/85% humidity...Hopefully Sunday Feb 12, 4 (count'em four) Redfoot hatchlings will arrive by FedEx. I'm so excited I can't stand myself...
 

Maggie3fan

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That experience is NOT limited to your MEP...All small tortoises know they are prey...and YOU are the predator. My Mary Knobbins knows I am the food goddess, yet she hides from me. She's a 45 pound Sulcata.
For smaller tortoises I useView attachment 353993 a mini greenhouse installed over a tort table The temp stays consistently 90 degrees w/85% humidity...Hopefully Sunday Feb 12, 4 (count'em four) Redfoot hatchlings will arrive by FedEx. I'm so excited I can't stand myself...
 

wellington

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We are in Florida so it doesn't get that cold but we have a few days in the 40s each year and plenty of days in the 50s. Our Aldabras come out to eat no matter the temperature and they warm up very quickly in the sun. As long as the sun is shining I no longer worry much about them being out in the 40-60 degree range.

As far as housing for a single adult animal, I think you would be fine with something 8x8 or possibly even a bit smaller. As long as he can walk in, turn around and get back out it will be big enough. If you are using a heat pad on the bottom it would need to be large enough for him to get off the pad in multiple directions. This size would only work for an animal that has good enough weather to get out of the night box every day though. If it needed to be locked in for days on end you would need much much larger.
Would you let yours go out in 40 and rain? The OP said they are in the raining season now and unless I misunderstood, it's still not out of 40 and 50's. That's such a risk to let any tort go out in those temps and rain. An 8x8 is only 4 feet bigger then what's needed for a tiny Russian.
Do you happen to know how big an adult male gets? I asked Aldabraman years ago but never got an answer that I seen. I don't know at what age they get to an adult size, but Greg's looks at least 5 feet long. Unless the OP wants to build more then once, an 8x8 seems way too small.
 

dd33

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@wellington, if the tortoise has a heated night box that is conditioned to using then 40 and sunny is probably fine, 40 and cloudy is risky, 40 and raining is a problem.
In my (limited) experience with Aldabras, it is better to let them do what they want to do and only force them into the night box when they are in danger. If they want out of the house and you don't let them, or if they are out of the house and you force them back in, they will often boycott the house entirely for a period of time, no matter how bad the weather is. I don't think I am alone in this observation, I have heard it from other Aldabra keepers.

I edited my last post quickly after I replied to add in something about the 8x8 size being fine for a nightbox but not a long term cold weather enclosure. For a nightbox that a single tortoise may need to be locked in a few times a year I think that 8x8 would be plenty large for even the largest of adult male Aldabras. If you needed to keep him locked up for days or weeks on end you would need a heated enclosure, not a night box. In that case the 20x20 you suggested would be more appropriate for all the reasons you pointed out.

I don't know much about the weather in Cyprus. It is certainly cooler than our weather in Florida, maybe a little closer to California. I am not making a suggestion on how the the OP should house their tortoise. Just commenting on their tolerance for lower temperatures if it is sunny out and/or the ground is warm.
 

Maggie3fan

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Regardless of their size eventually, they are small now and need to be locked in nightly. Outside 40 degrees is simply too cold for a small tortoise. Yes that tort will be very big eventually...they are smaller now...but still need a closed heated and insulated space....smaller
 

Tolis

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Thank you all for your input. Your hands-on experience is very much appreciated. Critisism is welcome as it allows me to improve. My short 2 years experience matches @dd33 observations. In the summer he never gets in the box he is always hiding under a bush or basking. When the night temps start falling lower than 63F I force him inside the box every night but not locked him in. Most of the nights he would escape an hour later to hide under a bush. When the night temps fall lower than 55F he not only stays inside but daily enters the box voluntarily. If he ever tries to exit the box now that temps fall to 39 I will get a movement alert and not only put him back in but start locking him in every night as a precaution. But since he never left the box during cold winter nights and I am actively checking the box temp and its always around 80F I dont see a reason to start locking him in and risk making him dislike the box.
Of course the box no matter how big cannot serve as enclosure, I think aldabraman when askedbsaid an adult aldabra needs more than an acre to roam around!
Cyprus is at the crosspoint between europe asia and africa. The climate here is not tropic like florida its mediterranean climate with hotter summer's since we are closer to middle east.
 

wellington

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I do believe though that Aldabraman had an acre or little more for his 11 adults Aldabras. I don't think an acre per tort is needed. Heck my leopards each have a very large summer yard and they barely use half of it.
I'd worry more about the shed enclosure size for those days that are too cold or cold and wet to send a tort out. That kind of weather is asking for trouble and a tort of any size needs to be able to move around to stay healthy.
 

dd33

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I wouldn't let an aldabra the size of yours sleep outside, overnight in 63F. Coming out to eat on a cold day, then returning to the house is one thing but staying out for extended periods in weather that cold probably isn't good for them.

I don't know if they naturally seek out their night box as a source of warmth. They haven't evolved to do that. They seek the sun for warmth and they seek shelter to cool off and hide from the sun. Basically the opposite of what we want them to do. You also have the problem of them getting to a point where they are too cold to have the energy to make the trip back to the house. Aldabras are definitely not smart enough to do the math on that one.

It took a lot of conditioning for us to get our animals to use the night boxes. We now know to only make changes to their pasture and the night box during the summer months when we don't have to worry as much about pissing them off. On the rare occasion that they don't go into the box now we herd them towards the box and get them to enter it on their own as a way to escape our gentle harassment instead of picking them up and putting them in. If they are so far from the house that we have to move them with a cart, we will still drop them off outside the box and get them to walk the rest of the way. If there is a spot that they want to sleep outside instead of the box, we make that spot inaccessible. Never bother them while they are sleeping in the box and never ever shine a flashlight at them!

Start now with getting your guy in his box every night. Its a lot easier to work on the conditioning when you can still pick them up easily. During the first few years of our conditioning we found that locking them in made the process harder. We are now in our 5th winter with them and we can now lock them in on very cold nights but we still have to get up before sunrise to open the doors so they can escape as soon as the sun comes up.
 

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