Gluing stuff to shells

Dave CH

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Hello everyone,
We have two older Hermanns who have the run of quite a large area of garden.
It's mixed terrain, and (of course) there are plenty of places for them to shelter.

Of course, when it's time to get them in to safety for the night (and we need to do that, as we've quite a lot of night-time fauna), "shelter" can mean "hide".
Sometimes, we're lucky, and we just go (out of habit) to the right spot, and hey, there they are.
Sometimes we're less lucky. And spent a long time looking.

We use a radio emitter tracker for one of our cats. If you want to know which, https://www.tabcat.com/.
Is there any reason (health-wise, or safety-wise) not to "glue" one of these onto the shell of a Hermanns?
If there isn't a reason not to do this, would far back on the shell be the best place (so there is less chance of it snagging in undergrowth), and what glue to use?

Of course, if there is any reason not to do this, I'll give up on the idea right away.

Big thanks for any advice and opinion you can offer -
Dave (Switzerland) (that's Switzerland, Europe)
 

Yvonne G

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Choose the center of a scute, not on the growth lines, and right above the tail is a good place. Use some sort of adhesive that won't be harmful to the tortoise, for example, some adhesives that you have to mix together get extremely hot as they mix. You don't want to use that kind.
 

Markw84

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Thanks Yvonne; re positioning, that's what we'd been advised.

Dave
If you are putting one on a female and breeding is a possibility, placing on the back of the shell can interfere. Most will place Location devices on the front over a "shoulder". Just keep profile so it won't snag on things.
 

Dave CH

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Thanks Mark.
She's in her mid 80s I believe. But breeding is, with him, often a possibility.
Thanks for the tip.

Dave
 

Dave CH

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I'd just like to come back on this and ask for further advice.

We've tried two adhesives, and neither work.
The first made a good bond, but that bond fractured at the first sign of stress, leaving a coat of glue on the tracker and another on the shell.
The second adhesive, which I was sure would work, just will not bond to the tracker (or the tracker's protective sleeve).

I've been in touch with the tracker maker, and they tell me that one of their clients is using epoxy pc11.
But that looks like a two-part adhesive, and I'd be worried about heat (I could always mix some, then check the heat with a heat gun/thermometer).

It took us so long to find our guys last night we thought someone had kidnapped (or tortoisenapped) them, so I'm really keen to get the trackers working.

Any advice (he writes, trying to appear calm and composed, while feeling a bit desperate)?
Dave
 

Dave CH

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Thanks Maro2Bear.
Link doesn't work for me (two different browsers).

Do you have an idea of a maximum temperature at which I'll be doing no hard to the shell? If there's any risk, I won't do it.

Both tortoises are older. The female in her mid 80s; the male probably 75 years old.
 

Maro2Bear

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Thanks Maro2Bear.
Link doesn't work for me (two different browsers).

Do you have an idea of a maximum temperature at which I'll be doing no hard to the shell? If there's any risk, I won't do it.

Both tortoises are older. The female in her mid 80s; the male probably 75 years old.

Just thinking out loud here, but on a good hot day In Switzerland, the ambient temps can be quite hot. If your tortoise is outside hiding in the shade not sure how hot its shell would be, but pretty hot. Id say you wouldn't want the epoxy to be too much warmer than that (85-90F).

The link above is for some construction grade glue that seems pretty darn strong. Cold temps, warm temps & wet environments.


Highlights
  • Top-of-the-line adhesive creates strong, durable, long-term bond
  • Suitable for indoor/outdoor projects, even in cold weather
  • 20-Minute set, 24-hour cure; use mineral spirits for cleanup
  • Strongest, extremely durable construction adhesive even compared to PL Premium
  • Remains 100% solid after curing for a wide variety of projects for consistently successful results
  • Doesn’t develop air pockets for better flexibility that resists building material movement
  • Fast grab with no run-on and is repositionable for 20 minutes
  • Waterproof and can be applied directly to wet and frozen surfaces in both cold and hot temperatures (10° F to 120° F)
 

MenagerieGrl

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So, epoxies get hotter the larger the quantity. I would think you are just using a dab to get the tag to adhere. So in my experience that much epoxy would only be getting mildly warm. Maybe even consider Velcro . .
I'm looking for something similar as my Seymour is an escape artist.
 

Dave CH

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Just thinking out loud here, but on a good hot day In Switzerland, the ambient temps can be quite hot. If your tortoise is outside hiding in the shade not sure how hot its shell would be, but pretty hot. Id say you wouldn't want the epoxy to be too much warmer than that (85-90F).

The link above is for some construction grade glue that seems pretty darn strong. Cold temps, warm temps & wet environments.


Highlights
  • Top-of-the-line adhesive creates strong, durable, long-term bond
  • Suitable for indoor/outdoor projects, even in cold weather
  • 20-Minute set, 24-hour cure; use mineral spirits for cleanup
  • Strongest, extremely durable construction adhesive even compared to PL Premium
  • Remains 100% solid after curing for a wide variety of projects for consistently successful results
  • Doesn’t develop air pockets for better flexibility that resists building material movement
  • Fast grab with no run-on and is repositionable for 20 minutes
  • Waterproof and can be applied directly to wet and frozen surfaces in both cold and hot temperatures (10° F to 120° F)
Thanks, Maro2Bear.
Will check that adhesive out.

You're right about the heat.
We can have ground temperatures of around 104F, and it's still only early June.
Even their early morning bask is at 93F (thermometers and a heat gun).

Best regards -
Dave
 

Dave CH

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So, epoxies get hotter the larger the quantity. I would think you are just using a dab to get the tag to adhere. So in my experience that much epoxy would only be getting mildly warm. Maybe even consider Velcro . .
I'm looking for something similar as my Seymour is an escape artist.
Hello MenagerieGrl,
A good point. You clearly understand adhesives better than I do, thank you.

Thought about Velcro, but as they have the free run of a lot of undergrowth, I get the feeling it would unzip itself on day 1.

Honestly, it's adherence to the sleeve that holds the tracker tag that's the problem. Don't know what that's made of.

In terms of radio tracking devices, we've always used TabCat from Loc8tor.
They had battery seating problems for a while (really, but really frustrating), but seem to have cleared those up now.
Last time I looked though (March), they had none in stock and no one could get one (supply chain issues I guess). That might have changed now.

We've now backed that up with a Pro-Track-Tor system (bought from Girafus in Germany):
Less clear exactly where the tab is, I think. But the set up of the tracker tag housing looks very robust. But as that's the system we want to use for our torts, we don't have a lot of experience with it yet.

Best regards -
Dave
 

Maro2Bear

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So, epoxies get hotter the larger the quantity. I would think you are just using a dab to get the tag to adhere. So in my experience that much epoxy would only be getting mildly warm. Maybe even consider Velcro . .
I'm looking for something similar as my Seymour is an escape artist.

Yes. Good point on the quantity. We’re talking a good dab, maybe the size of a Euro 10 cent piece (or less). Probably insignificant amount of heat concentration.

I don’t think velcro will work once the tort gets buried in grass & weeds.
 

Dave CH

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Yes. Good point on the quantity. We’re talking a good dab, maybe the size of a Euro 10 cent piece (or less). Probably insignificant amount of heat concentration.

I don’t think velcro will work once the tort gets buried in grass & weeds.
Thank you Maro2Bear.
As I'm British, I'm not sure I've ever seen a euro, but I can "Google it" ;)

Will research epoxy adhesives locally next week. Will let you all know how it goes.

And thanks again for your help.

Best regards -
Dave (and various torts)
 

MenagerieGrl

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Hello MenagerieGrl,
A good point. You clearly understand adhesives better than I do, thank you.

Thought about Velcro, but as they have the free run of a lot of undergrowth, I get the feeling it would unzip itself on day 1.

Honestly, it's adherence to the sleeve that holds the tracker tag that's the problem. Don't know what that's made of.

In terms of radio tracking devices, we've always used TabCat from Loc8tor.
They had battery seating problems for a while (really, but really frustrating), but seem to have cleared those up now.
Last time I looked though (March), they had none in stock and no one could get one (supply chain issues I guess). That might have changed now.

We've now backed that up with a Pro-Track-Tor system (bought from Girafus in Germany):
Less clear exactly where the tab is, I think. But the set up of the tracker tag housing looks very robust. But as that's the system we want to use for our torts, we don't have a lot of experience with it yet.

Best regards -
Dave
If I had to guess, the Sleeve for the tracker is made out of a silicone base, and virtually nothing will stick to that...
 

Maggie3fan

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I just had thought...(rare)... you are going to some lengths to make it easier to catch a wayward tortoise...why not use that very same energy and knowledge to make his pen escape proof?
 

Maro2Bear

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Thank you Maro2Bear.
As I'm British, I'm not sure I've ever seen a euro, but I can "Google it" ;)

Will research epoxy adhesives locally next week. Will let you all know how it goes.

And thanks again for your help.

Best regards -
Dave (and various torts)

But you don‘t live in Switzerland? 😀
 

MenagerieGrl

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@Dave CH First Post . . #1

"Big thanks for any advice and opinion you can offer -
Dave (Switzerland) (that's Switzerland, Europe)"
I'm confused 🤔 o_O
 

Dave CH

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If I had to guess, the Sleeve for the tracker is made out of a silicone base, and virtually nothing will stick to that...
Hmmm... that's a good point.
Tuesday, I'm going to ask the manufacturer to send me a few spares.
Then I'll be able to test various glues.

Another option would be to stick a TabCat sleeve to something (we have spares); it may be made from something more... stickable.
 

Dave CH

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@Dave CH First Post . . #1

"Big thanks for any advice and opinion you can offer -
Dave (Switzerland) (that's Switzerland, Europe)"
I'm confused 🤔 o_O
Maro2Bear. MenagerieGrl.
Sorry about the monetary confusion.

Yes, I'm British. So, no euros (pounds sterling instead).
And yes, I do live in Switzerland. So, no euros (Swiss francs instead).

Neither country ever came close to adopting the euro (a currency on which I won't offer and opinion as this is a tortoise forum).

Hope that clears things up...
 

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