Worried about my Red Foot - Please check out his set up!

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shawngt2

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Alright, I see where this is going....AGAIN! I still don't think ANYONE has the perfect diet to date and probably never will - but Terry's advice has some improvement proof to back it up and is here to promote health of the Redfoot and get people on the right track - which is appreciated.

Terry, I've been following your advice for living conditions and diet (except more earth worms than cat food). I'm still not convinced that cat food is the ideal source of protein since it IS commercial diet and fortified with vitamins and minerals which can definitely be at an unhealthy level. It's really a concoction of ingredients that isn't even ideal for a cat! If you do intense research into what's ideal for canine or feline animals it isn't commercial sold food just as it's not ideal for a tortoise.

Lets keep this constructive...As I said before, I'm still not 100% comfortable with the current diet recommended. It's working so far and I'm getting results similar to Terry's photos now at 8 mos. But Terry when I look at your last photo at 3+ years I don't see perfect growth. I see slightly raised scutes and wondering what the cause of that is? I've seen photos of wild specimens and their shells are smooth like at bowl turned upside down (minus the round shape!) - Similar to Sonshine. Was there a period of high humidity? Was there some experimentation that went wrong at a certain period? I'm just going to be as honest as possible without trying to upset you but I am concerned about this. Maybe JustANJA's more natural protein sources are more ideal? The items he listed are a great source of protein and aren't fortified with a bunch of garbage and cooked to death during an extruding process. Yes of course an argument can be motioned "when does a Redfoot find cooked eggs in the wild?"... But since when has a Redfoot found commercial cat food also?

I won't be convinced until I see growth similar to a wild caught specimen. Your diet has definitely saved Redfoots with a completely incorrect diet but your results aren't perfect and shouldn't be pushed as 'perfect'. At an analytical approach the only amazing growth I have seen on your Redfoots is from Sonshine which has INCREADIBLE smooth growth but you do see a difference at the last growth rings on the shell which appear to recess vs. all previous growth. Was this a wild caught specimen a few years ago and has been on your diet recently. What's her story?

I know this is probably going to lead to an argument/insult but this really is beyond anyone’s feelings. This is a continual improvement process vs. settling with one diet which to me doesn't appear perfect. Nobody should push perfect on this board and overwrite someone else’s inputs.

Man I love controversy! LOL I'm in a great mood, it's Christmas, I want a perfect tortoise (which I think isn't possible unless I build a large pen outside in BRAZIL! where my Redfoot will eat to his own desire!)

Shawn
 

Yvonne G

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One thing to keep in mind about wild caught growth and captive bred growth. A wild caught animal has much more trauma to the shell than a cb animal. They have to duck under bushes and around rocks, fight with other tortoises, etc. You can always tell a wc animal from a cb animal simply by the carapace.

Yvonne
 

shawngt2

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emysemys said:
One thing to keep in mind about wild caught growth and captive bred growth. A wild caught animal has much more trauma to the shell than a cb animal. They have to duck under bushes and around rocks, fight with other tortoises, etc. You can always tell a wc animal from a cb animal simply by the carapace.

Yvonne

So your suggestion is that Sonshine is captive bread due to no shell scaring. Do you see what I mean by perfect growth on her shell until the last rings? It seems like the growth dips down suddenly. Photos on turtletary.com show her there. What's your comments Yvonne?
 

Yvonne G

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Sorry, I'm not going to get involved in this discussion. There are always exceptions to every rule, and I don't know enough about the tortoises in question to have an opinion.

Yvonne
 

shawngt2

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Ok understood, I hope nobody takes this as insult. Analytical questioning that is all... Nothing more.

Let me mention this again, Terry your diet and living recommendations for the Redfoot are really respected and encouraging for new owners to properly care for.

Something tells me this is going to get out of hand, I should have just said nothing... My mouth sometimes gets me in trouble with my curiousity!! LOL

I'm not trying to insult you Terry, let that be known before your reply (if there is in fact one).

Shawn
 

Jacqui

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shawngt2 said:
Something tells me this is going to get out of hand, I should have just said nothing... My mouth sometimes gets me in trouble with my curiousity!! LOL

Shawn

Shawn you have nothing to apologize for, it is a wise keeper who questions and seeks answers. Nobody should ever get in trouble in here for asking questions...ever!
 

NicholsNINE

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So is the red bulb I'm using right now really that bad?

Also, does anyone have any thoughts on fusing the current rubbermade container you can see in the above pictures with an identical one to make it twice as big. Good idea? If I do that, do you think I'll need to get another heat source anyways? Perhaps if I did that, could I use the red bulb on one side of the home, and then a heat emitter on the other?

Thanks and Merry Christmas!

(PS, leaving a water dish in his home for a few hours a day, and spraying him more, and having a warm mist humidifier in my room has seemed to make an improvement already. He's been more active, but not in that frantically trying to escape way, in a measured "I'm curious" kind of way. Also, his eyes are less watery, not perfect, but they're not puffy like they were. I still don't know what the actual humidity is, but I'm going to get the mosser lee stuff tomorrow when stores open again. Today he ate 1/2 cup of pineapple, tomorrow will be some endive and Saturday will be his first cat food day)
 

Yvonne G

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It is my understanding that the tortoises can't see light from the red bulb, so it is a pretty good source of heat without light.

Yvonne
 

JustAnja

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NicholsNINE said:
So is the red bulb I'm using right now really that bad?

Also, does anyone have any thoughts on fusing the current rubbermade container you can see in the above pictures with an identical one to make it twice as big. Good idea? If I do that, do you think I'll need to get another heat source anyways? Perhaps if I did that, could I use the red bulb on one side of the home, and then a heat emitter on the other?

Thanks and Merry Christmas!

(PS, leaving a water dish in his home for a few hours a day, and spraying him more, and having a warm mist humidifier in my room has seemed to make an improvement already. He's been more active, but not in that frantically trying to escape way, in a measured "I'm curious" kind of way. Also, his eyes are less watery, not perfect, but they're not puffy like they were. I still don't know what the actual humidity is, but I'm going to get the mosser lee stuff tomorrow when stores open again. Today he ate 1/2 cup of pineapple, tomorrow will be some endive and Saturday will be his first cat food day)

Search for Meg90s post I think in the Greek forum about how she put two rubbermaids together end to end and used a PVC pipe for a tunnel between the two.

Leave his water dish 24/7 ;) Also you mentioned about cutting the lid to the rubbermaid, that should work well, leaving half or more of the container covered. You can put the sphagnum moss in that end and it will help raise the humidity, just keep it misted daily.

Here is a setup for redfoots that I did, you can see the sphagnum on the other end and I kept over half of the stock tank covered to help hold in moisture/humidity.

d6a9185c.jpg


5ad370cf.jpg
 

terryo

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This is Pio, my Cherry Head. He is 15 months old now and I have been following Terry's caresheets since I got him at 1 month old. Everything is the same...heat emitter...lighting...temp. and food as per his care sheet. The only thing I do different is put plants in the viv. which holds the humidity much better IMO. He is looking very smooth so far (and he is getting marbleing...which I am so excited about. (I guess you can tell he is my first tortoise.)
I have seen someone on another forum put two and three plastic bin's together to make a bigger enclosure.


002-10.jpg
 

NicholsNINE

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JustAnja said:
NicholsNINE said:
So is the red bulb I'm using right now really that bad?

Also, does anyone have any thoughts on fusing the current rubbermade container you can see in the above pictures with an identical one to make it twice as big. Good idea? If I do that, do you think I'll need to get another heat source anyways? Perhaps if I did that, could I use the red bulb on one side of the home, and then a heat emitter on the other?

Thanks and Merry Christmas!

(PS, leaving a water dish in his home for a few hours a day, and spraying him more, and having a warm mist humidifier in my room has seemed to make an improvement already. He's been more active, but not in that frantically trying to escape way, in a measured "I'm curious" kind of way. Also, his eyes are less watery, not perfect, but they're not puffy like they were. I still don't know what the actual humidity is, but I'm going to get the mosser lee stuff tomorrow when stores open again. Today he ate 1/2 cup of pineapple, tomorrow will be some endive and Saturday will be his first cat food day)

Search for Meg90s post I think in the Greek forum about how she put two rubbermaids together end to end and used a PVC pipe for a tunnel between the two.

Leave his water dish 24/7 ;) Also you mentioned about cutting the lid to the rubbermaid, that should work well, leaving half or more of the container covered. You can put the sphagnum moss in that end and it will help raise the humidity, just keep it misted daily.

Here is a setup for redfoots that I did, you can see the sphagnum on the other end and I kept over half of the stock tank covered to help hold in moisture/humidity.

Okay, cool thanks a lot!

I saw that post with the PVC pipe, it looks awesome! My only concern is that ole' Tick Tock is getting big already and I'd like to make this new enclosure last. I'm thinking if I cut off the entire end of both rubbermade containers and duct tape them on the outside a whole bunch it might work.

Do you think that perhaps I could have the moss throughout the enclosure, and then on the cooler parts put a layer of the Repti Bark from the first post?

Also, with the covering of the enclosure you didn't find any air flow issues right?

Oh, and Terryo, Pio looks good! I'm for sure switching to these care sheets as best I can!
 

Meg90

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Make sure you use an electric saw then or something else just as powerful. That damn plastic is pretttttty tough. you want to make sure that there are no sharp edges on the inside either...plastic can cut kinda jagged. I made sure any rough edges were covered.
 

NicholsNINE

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Oh that's a good point about the jagged edges. Do you think duct tape on the inside and covered bye moss would be bad for him?

Yeah I've never cut a rubber made container, so I'm probably really oversimplifying the process in my head...
 

Meg90

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The type of tape I used was clear packing tape (the kind used for mailing) It sticks REALLY well, and doesn't leave a residue like duct tape can. Plus, since its clear, it could be asthetically better.

I had never cut plastic either. I thought it would be easy and then i ended up heating the tiny knife i was using and "melting" my way through the plastic. I managed to cut a circle like that, centimeter by painstaking centimeter.
 

NicholsNINE

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Packing Tape! That makes a lot of sense, thanks!

I'm going to ask some of my friends if they might have something to cut these things with I guess. If this idea doesn't play out hopefully I can find a much much bigger rubber made container that's just one unit...
 

Meg90

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There was a really nice one at walmart the other day....it was 30$ even and quite large...like 4ft long or something and over a ft wide. They said it was an fake xmas tree container. Check out your local walmart. the top that came with it was shiny, and forest green.

I was miffed, cause it would have been perfect for my greek, but I didn't get it, because I had already gone through all that work!
 

JustAnja

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There are allot of folks that use the Xmas tree containers for torts/turtles. I know Tracy (Iluvemturts) has some pics somewhere of one she has, maybe she will post them.


Taylor, just covering half of the enclosure will not restrict airflow, so you're fine there. ;)
 

terryo

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I use clear packing tape also for the top of my viv. to hold the humidity. It is perfect and can be changed very easily and it is cheap too.
 
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