Basking vs Ambient Heat

Hey all -

We're trying to improve on Jet's living situation while maintaining an attractive enclosure. Had a thought/question while making plans...

How important is is for red foots to have a basking area? I keep reading that RFs aren't really baskers.

Another way I ask the question: if a red foot's enclosure has appropriate ambient temps, and appropriate humidity, and appropriate UVB light source, is there still a need for a direct-heat basking area?

Thanks!

I don't have redfoots, but the heat from the uvb lamp should be sufficient for his enclosure. What size is your enclosure?

From what I have always read, is that tortoises have to heat up past 85 to properly digest their food.

There has been big ugly debates on here about Redfoots and basking ... Yes they bask! Mine does... he has a big flat sandstone rock under one of his lights, so not only is the light really warm in that area but the rock is warm as well... He will thru out the day go under the light and lay on the rock... It is pretty funny looking his legs hang off the front and back and he will nap there. Other times he will avoid that area.

When he is outside he does the samething in the sun.. He will go over to the warm sandstone rocks and hang out. Then he will go hide under the hostas.

Watsonpartyof4 said:

There has been big ugly debates on here about Redfoots and basking ... Yes they bask!.

Click to expand...

I understand that they DO bask - my question is: is basking more beneficial than not basking (assuming all other environmentals are correct)?

Here's an analogy: I like to eat an occasional steak. There's nothing wrong with eating an occasional steak. As long as I don't overdo it, it doesn't harm me in any way, and I get pleasure out of it. If suddenly there were no steaks in the world, I might miss my occasional steak, but the net result to my well being would be zero.

When I owned desert lizards, basking was essential to the health of the animal. Now that I own a rainforest tortoise, is basking essential to his health in the same way, or is it the tortoise equivalent of an occasional steak?

GroovyBrent said:

Watsonpartyof4 said:

There has been big ugly debates on here about Redfoots and basking ... Yes they bask!.

Click to expand...

I understand that they DO bask - my question is: is basking more beneficial than not basking (assuming all other environmentals are correct)?

Here's an analogy: I like to eat an occasional steak. There's nothing wrong with eating an occasional steak. As long as I don't overdo it, it doesn't harm me in any way, and I get pleasure out of it. If suddenly there were no steaks in the world, I might miss my occasional steak, but the net result to my well being would be zero.

When I owned desert lizards, basking was essential to the health of the animal. Now that I own a rainforest tortoise, is basking essential to his health in the same way, or is it the tortoise equivalent of an occasional steak?

Click to expand...

You will get alot of different opinions on this, my adult redfoots do bask in the sun. I do have a basking spot for my redfoot hatchlings and they do use it but not alot. Its important for torts to be able to get the body temps up

The world without steaks!?!?!?! Welcome to Thunderdome!!!

same question, but for me, my rf doesnt like to bask. My enclosure in around 78-79 in temp and humidity atleast 80. He always stays in his hide and just go out to eat or drink. Or sometimes he fits himself at the back of his hide and sleeps there...

But every morning i soak him with warm water for his poop and pee training, at the same time i place him under the sun (not direct sunlight) for his uvb

ballergrapher said:

same question, but for me, my rf doesnt like to bask. My enclosure in around 78-79 in temp and humidity atleast 80. He always stays in his hide and just go out to eat or drink. Or sometimes he fits himself at the back of his hide and sleeps there...

But every morning i soak him with warm water for his poop and pee training, at the same time i place him under the sun (not direct sunlight) for his uvb

Click to expand...

Then you my friend have an enclosure that is too cold! And you need to have a UVB light in his enclosure. I would get his temps up to 85. And I bet you he will not hide as much.

Surviving verses thriving ,it's your obligation to have them thrive. At least 85 .

What temp would be too warm for my little one?

Re: RE: Basking vs Ambient Heat

GroovyBrent said:

Hey all -

We're trying to improve on Jet's living situation while maintaining an attractive enclosure. Had a thought/question while making plans...

How important is is for red foots to have a basking area? I keep reading that RFs aren't really baskers.

Another way I ask the question: if a red foot's enclosure has appropriate ambient temps, and appropriate humidity, and appropriate UVB light source, is there still a need for a direct-heat basking area?

Thanks!

Click to expand...

If all the criteria you mention above are met, then it is not necessary to have hot spot basking light. I do not have basking lights for my forest tortoises. With this set up it is important then to provide the sweet spot temps as it will be harder for the tortoise to thermo regulate on its own.

What kind of heat source are you using to bring up the ambient day time temp to ideal levels and what are those temps?

I personally use a ceramic heat emitter.

mikeh said:

What kind of heat source are you using to bring up the ambient day time temp to ideal levels and what are those temps?

Click to expand...

We currently have an array of under tank heaters to try and provide the gradient necessary. We're still trying to perfect it, though!

Under tank heaters are ok. Since the heat is coming from below and they can get hot, it is a good idea for the substrate to be few inches deep to distribute the heat. Also one should watch out for the tort digging down close to the heat pad, you wouldn't want the tort be sleeping right on top of it. I would also avoid placing it under the hide.
In closed chamber set up, water proof heat cables snaked under the substrate and snaked on side walls are a better alternatives as they don't get as hot and distribute the heat evenly thru out larger area. Still a 2.5-3.5" of substrate over the heat cable is ideal and same with cables, watch out for tort digging down sleeping over the heat cable.
Ambient day time temp of 85-88F at torts level would be ideal.

GroovyBrent said:

Watsonpartyof4 said:

There has been big ugly debates on here about Redfoots and basking ... Yes they bask!.

Click to expand...

I understand that they DO bask - my question is: is basking more beneficial than not basking (assuming all other environmentals are correct)?

Here's an analogy: I like to eat an occasional steak. There's nothing wrong with eating an occasional steak. As long as I don't overdo it, it doesn't harm me in any way, and I get pleasure out of it. If suddenly there were no steaks in the world, I might miss my occasional steak, but the net result to my well being would be zero.

When I owned desert lizards, basking was essential to the health of the animal. Now that I own a rainforest tortoise, is basking essential to his health in the same way, or is it the tortoise equivalent of an occasional steak?

Click to expand...

Unfortunately because it is such a heated debate. And some redfoots bask, and some redfoots do not bask. The answer to your question(since it didn't get answered by the experts) This too will be debated im sure. But as long as you are feeding your redfoot properly. Greens, veggies, protein, etc. Under proper husbandry yoor redfoot will not require a "basking light"
You will need to provide warmth to thermal regulate. I have tried a standard household 60watt bulb for the "basking" . Some, and i say some are sensitive to bright lights. I just have redfoots that are sensitive.

Thanks all!

I'm going to summarize the answer to this question this way:

"Temps need to be within a range (call it 80-90), humidity needs to be within a certain range ("a lot - probably higher than you can reasonably make it unless you live in a rainforest"), they need as much UVB as you can give them, and if your tort eats well, poops regularly, and seems appropriately active, then you're probably doing ok."

Come to think of it, almost all the questions I've seen or asked can probably be summarized with the above answer...

That sound about right?

GroovyBrent said:

Thanks all!

I'm going to summarize the answer to this question this way:

"Temps need to be within a range (call it 80-90), humidity needs to be within a certain range ("a lot - probably higher than you can reasonably make it unless you live in a rainforest"), they need as much UVB as you can give them, and if your tort eats well, poops regularly, and seems appropriately active, then you're probably doing ok."

Come to think of it, almost all the questions I've seen or asked can probably be summarized with the above answer...

That sound about right?

Click to expand...

Sounds about right Brent Sometimes you just have to try a couple different thing and see what works for you and your torts....... Oh ya and REAL sun is always best when you can

Watsonpartyof4 said:

ballergrapher said:

same question, but for me, my rf doesnt like to bask. My enclosure in around 78-79 in temp and humidity atleast 80. He always stays in his hide and just go out to eat or drink. Or sometimes he fits himself at the back of his hide and sleeps there...

But every morning i soak him with warm water for his poop and pee training, at the same time i place him under the sun (not direct sunlight) for his uvb

Click to expand...

Then you my friend have an enclosure that is too cold! And you need to have a UVB light in his enclosure. I would get his temps up to 85. And I bet you he will not hide as much.

Click to expand...

Really too cold? Do i need to put uvb or uva? Because i have a friend selling uva basking light, here is the link
http://www.reptiles.swelluk.com/rep...ra-sun-glo-daylight-basking-light-183076.html
I am not sure if this will be enough for my hatchling rf

ballergrapher said:

Watsonpartyof4 said:

ballergrapher said:

same question, but for me, my rf doesnt like to bask. My enclosure in around 78-79 in temp and humidity atleast 80. He always stays in his hide and just go out to eat or drink. Or sometimes he fits himself at the back of his hide and sleeps there...

But every morning i soak him with warm water for his poop and pee training, at the same time i place him under the sun (not direct sunlight) for his uvb

Click to expand...

Then you my friend have an enclosure that is too cold! And you need to have a UVB light in his enclosure. I would get his temps up to 85. And I bet you he will not hide as much.

Click to expand...

Really too cold? Do i need to put uvb or uva? Because i have a friend selling uva basking light, here is the link
http://www.reptiles.swelluk.com/rep...ra-sun-glo-daylight-basking-light-183076.html
I am not sure if this will be enough for my hatchling rf

Click to expand...

Yes, I believe too cold. They will be lethargic and sleep a lot, if it is too cold. 83-85 would be a better temperature. Your humidity is spot on! They need UVB light to help digest food. I would suggest a mercury vapor bulb.