≤ 1Year Growth marks/Uneven Growth?

[pguinpro]

Like most who get their first tortoise I had all the wrong info. In corrected course though in 2 months time. Also when I got him he was 3 mos old plus the 8 mos I've had him so almost a year. Anyways, I've seen a few growth charts in google images and my concern is that the patterns look a little raised or at least have an edge/rigid. See pics below. Anyways the closed chamber terrarium is to forum specs and his diet still remains a constant challenge. Do you thing these are normal growth?

 

[jsheffield]

I think it looks lovely ....

Jamie

 

[pguinpro]

I think it looks lovely ....

Jamie

Okay good haha so paranoid that it will grow unevenly.

 

[jsheffield]

That being said, I'm a newbie and think all of these tortoises are lovely.

Jamie

 

[Via Infinito]

Looks normal to me
What's the weight?

 

[Kapidolo Farms]

It is possible to have a tortoise that grows with no growth rings. Rings simply mean there are/was grow and no-grow periods. I have not sorted out how long a no-grow period needs to be to create a ring. Growth rings are not the same thing as pyramiding. Your tortoise appears okay to me.

 

[Markw84]

Your tortoise does look small for 1 year old. The older growth does have pyramiding that had started. However, the newer growth is looking good.

With the small size and initial pyramiding, I would say your tortoise had been kept way too dry. I may be taking your info too literally, but if I do the math = The seller probably stretched things a bit saying it was 3 months old but didn't want to explain the small size. If you've had it 8 months, that would have been Feb you bought it? Sulcatas are normally hatching in June and July (a ground hatch can happen in the US in Sept/Oct) - so I would be inclined to bet your sulcata was 7 months old when you got it and sold as younger as it was so small for that age. The new growth I see is a good sign. It appears to be growing nicely now and looks to be pretty smooth. SO you seem to be doing a good job. Keep it up,,, and post progress pictures!

 

[Anyfoot]

It is possible to have a tortoise that grows with no growth rings. Rings simply mean there are/was grow and no-grow periods. I have not sorted out how long a no-grow period needs to be to create a ring. Growth rings are not the same thing as pyramiding. Your tortoise appears okay to me.

Interesting Will.
So if I grow a tort in the same constant temperature and humidity, feed a regular diet, Then what still causes the stop,start in growth.
Exercise, darkness, sleeping maybe????

 

[Kapidolo Farms]

Interesting Will.
So if I grow a tort in the same constant temperature and humidity, feed a regular diet, Then what still causes the stop,start in growth.
Exercise, darkness, sleeping maybe????

Well, several of the tortoises I have purchased after they were hatched and grown some by others, have rings, then I keep them and the rings are so small they are indeterminate as to real start and stop. Some of the current cohort of leopards from a year ago have no rings at all, yet they are growing well and have no pyramiding. they are at about 5 inches in 14 months*. A ring does not equal pyramiding.

A group of Leopards I started in 2014 were grown to six inches in 10 months, and they all had large rings, were not pyramided and yet those rings, (each one looked like Oh-boy here come pyramiding) made them not smooth.

The same is happening with some of the 9 Bolivian redfoots, each ring looks like 'here comes pyramiding' but they are not pyramiding, they just have more pronounced starts and stops to growth. However a few of them in the same enclosure are smooth. I'll post video I took yesterday somewhere and tell you.

I think that the factors you mention (exercise, darkness, sleeping) play a role, but to what extent I do not know. I am fairly certain the "hot spot" versus a "hot area" plays a role in that spots are intense IR and areas are not. I recall the posts of @lilacdragon (no longer a retrievable avatar( it worked) and Andy Highfield - forgot his avatar) posting here about the IR absorption of sub sets of the IR spectrum that specifically were eliminated by atmospheric water vapor, and how those exact IR wavelengths would dessicate the shell when we use a broad IR spectrum in close proximity to the tortoise.

Those 10 month 6 inch leos had a 75 watt red bulb for day time basking, and they would eat and cook(bask) daily. They had strong growth rings. Now that I am using diffuse hot zones with indirect radiant heat, the growth rings are gone. All these various tortoises are in 90+%RH.

And DUDE, thanks so much for critically reading what I write. It makes my day worth it.

* the bomb I'm going to drop when I get around to posting images - no UV of any kind ever, it's all dietary. I only have empirical data, but no UV ever, hard as a rock, smooth as smooth can be and growing just fine.

 

[Minority2]

Well, several of the tortoises I have purchased after they were hatched and grown some by others, have rings, then I keep them and the rings are so small they are indeterminate as to real start and stop. Some of the current cohort of leopards from a year ago have no rings at all, yet they are growing well and have no pyramiding. they are at about 5 inches in 14 months*. A ring does not equal pyramiding.

A group of Leopards I started in 2014 were grown to six inches in 10 months, and they all had large rings, were not pyramided and yet those rings, (each one looked like Oh-boy here come pyramiding) made them not smooth.

The same is happening with some of the 9 Bolivian redfoots, each ring looks like 'here comes pyramiding' but they are not pyramiding, they just have more pronounced starts and stops to growth. However a few of them in the same enclosure are smooth. I'll post video I took yesterday somewhere and tell you.

I think that the factors you mention (exercise, darkness, sleeping) play a role, but to what extent I do not know. I am fairly certain the "hot spot" versus a "hot area" plays a role in that spots are intense IR and areas are not. I recall the posts of @lilacdragon (no longer a retrievable avatar( it worked) and Andy Highfield - forgot his avatar) posting here about the IR absorption of sub sets of the IR spectrum that specifically were eliminated by atmospheric water vapor, and how those exact IR wavelengths would dessicate the shell when we use a broad IR spectrum in close proximity to the tortoise.

Those 10 month 6 inch leos had a 75 watt red bulb for day time basking, and they would eat and cook(bask) daily. They had strong growth rings. Now that I am using diffuse hot zones with indirect radiant heat, the growth rings are gone. All these various tortoises are in 90+%RH.

And DUDE, thanks so much for critically reading what I write. It makes my day worth it.

* the bomb I'm going to drop when I get around to posting images - no UV of any kind ever, it's all dietary. I only have empirical data, but no UV ever, hard as a rock, smooth as smooth can be and growing just fine.

I am definitely interested in your progress and final results.

 

[Anyfoot]

Well, several of the tortoises I have purchased after they were hatched and grown some by others, have rings, then I keep them and the rings are so small they are indeterminate as to real start and stop. Some of the current cohort of leopards from a year ago have no rings at all, yet they are growing well and have no pyramiding. they are at about 5 inches in 14 months*. A ring does not equal pyramiding.

A group of Leopards I started in 2014 were grown to six inches in 10 months, and they all had large rings, were not pyramided and yet those rings, (each one looked like Oh-boy here come pyramiding) made them not smooth.

The same is happening with some of the 9 Bolivian redfoots, each ring looks like 'here comes pyramiding' but they are not pyramiding, they just have more pronounced starts and stops to growth. However a few of them in the same enclosure are smooth. I'll post video I took yesterday somewhere and tell you.

I think that the factors you mention (exercise, darkness, sleeping) play a role, but to what extent I do not know. I am fairly certain the "hot spot" versus a "hot area" plays a role in that spots are intense IR and areas are not. I recall the posts of @lilacdragon (no longer a retrievable avatar( it worked) and Andy Highfield - forgot his avatar) posting here about the IR absorption of sub sets of the IR spectrum that specifically were eliminated by atmospheric water vapor, and how those exact IR wavelengths would dessicate the shell when we use a broad IR spectrum in close proximity to the tortoise.

Those 10 month 6 inch leos had a 75 watt red bulb for day time basking, and they would eat and cook(bask) daily. They had strong growth rings. Now that I am using diffuse hot zones with indirect radiant heat, the growth rings are gone. All these various tortoises are in 90+%RH.

And DUDE, thanks so much for critically reading what I write. It makes my day worth it.

* the bomb I'm going to drop when I get around to posting images - no UV of any kind ever, it's all dietary. I only have empirical data, but no UV ever, hard as a rock, smooth as smooth can be and growing just fine.

I’ve experienced the same Will. I have torts that show no growth rings. This is when they are at 99% humidity and no hot spots. Soon as I introduce them to lower humidity they show the growth rings.
I’ve seen wild adults that show very smooth growth around areola. Then at some point in life they show prominent growth rings. Probably the transaction of babies/juveniles hiding in micro climates to adults getting out and about ( well that’s what I was thinking).
I’ve raised 3 babies with no uvb for first 3 months. All 3 grew on smooth and healthy. Plenty of protein in microclimates to provide vitamin D for bone growth you would think.

Nobody ever mentions D2 ?????

 

[Kapidolo Farms]

I’ve experienced the same Will. I have torts that show no growth rings. This is when they are at 99% humidity and no hot spots. Soon as I introduce them to lower humidity they show the growth rings.
I’ve seen wild adults that show very smooth growth around areola. Then at some point in life they show prominent growth rings. Probably the transaction of babies/juveniles hiding in micro climates to adults getting out and about ( well that’s what I was thinking).
I’ve raised 3 babies with no uvb for first 3 months. All 3 grew on smooth and healthy. Plenty of protein in microclimates to provide vitamin D for bone growth you would think.

Nobody ever mentions D2 ?????

Because:
The most common dietary forms are vitamins D2 and D3. The D3 form is found in fatty animal-sourced foods, such as fish oil and egg yolk. Your skin also produces it in response to sunlight or ultraviolet light. In contrast, vitamin D2 comes from plants.

 

[Anyfoot]

Because:
The most common dietary forms are vitamins D2 and D3. The D3 form is found in fatty animal-sourced foods, such as fish oil and egg yolk. Your skin also produces it in response to sunlight or ultraviolet light. In contrast, vitamin D2 comes from plants.

And torts eat plants