3 year old male Western Herman humping and bitting

[cdumitru78]

3 year old male is starting to literally hump and bite his 2 females, they are all kept in a 48 inch enclosure but planning to move them outdoors this spring. Should I be concerned, watch them, or any suggestions? Aren't the females too young to lay eggs?

 

[TammyJ]

We don't know how old or what size the females are. In any case, it sounds to me as if they all need separate, and larger, enclosures right now.

 

[cdumitru78]

They are all about 3 to 4 years old, I have a total of 5, I am suspecting 3 females and 2 males. Goal is for a much larger enclosure within the next few weeks, and it will be outdoors.

 

[zolasmum]

The females may be too young to lay eggs, but your male won't bother about that - the fact that they are there is all he needs ! If you separate him, you can give him some objects he can work off his steam on harmlessly - smooth large rounded stones, for example. The male tortoises, if you have 2, need to be separated from each other too,otherwise they will get very aggressive .
Angie

 

[wellington]

48 inch enclosure is way too small for one let alone 3 or 5. They need to have a much bigger indoor enclosure now or give each its own. The poor females have no room to even try to get away. This bigger enclosure can not wait!

 

[cdumitru78]

Yep, getting going on their outside enclosure, and will build it right so they will have places to roam/hide and the like. Plan was to get then outside already this year but the weather has been miserable here in the NW.

 

[Sarah2020]

Best to separate ASAP as it sounds a very stressful environment. The females need a rest and peace. I would look urgently how you can separate even waiting for the new enclosure. Their bites can be awful and will cost $$ in vet fees that you probably want to avoid.

 

[cdumitru78]

Yep, I have a few ideas, I have a second identical enclosure I can set up fast, or I can temporary divide the current setup for the few days/week I will need to properly finish and dial in current project. We lost our 13 year old beagle last week, so no, I don't need nor do I want any more vet visits or hurt animals.

I want to get this done right as this will be their forever home, so I am gathering all the info needed and laying out plans so it gets done right. I've built outdoors wood ponds/enclosures for our diamondback turtles and koi fish, and also built a 3000 gallon outdoors pond so I have some experience putting things together for our pets.

 

[cdumitru78]

Best to separate ASAP as it sounds a very stressful environment. The females need a rest and peace. I would look urgently how you can separate even waiting for the new enclosure. Their bites can be awful and will cost $$ in vet fees that you probably want to avoid.

being that they are still pretty young, I would assume the eggs will not hatch even if it gets to that point? Also, once the new area is set up, assuming it is large enough and well decorated, all 5 should be OK together if carefully monitored and no signs of aggressive behavior takes place?

 

[wellington]

Yep, I have a few ideas, I have a second identical enclosure I can set up fast, or I can temporary divide the current setup for the few days/week I will need to properly finish and dial in current project. We lost our 13 year old beagle last week, so no, I don't need nor do I want any more vet visits or hurt animals.

I want to get this done right as this will be their forever home, so I am gathering all the info needed and laying out plans so it gets done right. I've built outdoors wood ponds/enclosures for our diamondback turtles and koi fish, and also built a 3000 gallon outdoors pond so I have some experience putting things together for our pets.

What you are not understanding is you waited too long already. Just get it done and perfect it after everyone is safe. You can't divide the one you have it's not suitable for hatchlings. The extra one you have that is identical to the one you are using now, yes get it up and get the females in it and hope they get along or you will have to separate them too You are endangering their lives. Then you need to get a bigger better one done ASAP. If you have five, and the best you have done is a 48 inch, you have waisted a lot of time already.
I am very sorry about the loss of your dog. If you don't move quick on this build, you might have another animal loss!

 

[cdumitru78]

I hear you loud and clear, thank you for the feedback, will work on getting them what they need asap.

 

[Tom]

I hear you loud and clear, thank you for the feedback, will work on getting them what they need asap.

Males mature faster and at a smaller size than females. They should not have access to immature females. If immature smaller females are bred too soon, at too small of a size, they can get egg bound and die as the eggs can't pass through the small opening.

I like to start groups as babies, but I separate them as soon as I can tell the sexes, to put them back together at the right size and age.

 

[cdumitru78]

Males mature faster and at a smaller size than females. They should not have access to immature females. If immature smaller females are bred too soon, at too small of a size, they can get egg bound and die as the eggs can't pass through the small opening.

I like to start groups as babies, but I separate them as soon as I can tell the sexes, to put them back together at the right size and age.

Thank you Tom! I looked at my records last night and I see that the female is soon to be 5 years old, purchased from Chris. She is pushing 470 grams, I did not measure her but I will. Male is only 4 years old, purchased from Chris as well, he is around 280 grams. You are saying you put them back together at the right size/age, could you please elaborate on that?

 

[Tom]

Thank you Tom! I looked at my records last night and I see that the female is soon to be 5 years old, purchased from Chris. She is pushing 470 grams, I did not measure her but I will. Male is only 4 years old, purchased from Chris as well, he is around 280 grams. You are saying you put them back together at the right size/age, could you please elaborate on that?

Chris will be your best resource on that. He will know what breeding size is for the locale specific tortoises he sold you. To give you an example: I breed platynota. I could tell the sexes when they were around 18-20 months old, and at that time I separated males from females. With that species, the commonly listed size for females to be allowed to breed is 3000 grams. If you put males with females smaller than that, you run the risk of killing your female with egg binding. With sulcatas I wait until they females are at least 20-22 inches and sometimes 24 inches if it was a fast grower.

 

[cdumitru78]

Awesome, thank you, that is great info. Will reach out to Chris as well, I know he is pretty busy. Will give them what they need asap, I have the space to build them something that will suit them.