5 turtles in 1 tank

[Alec]

Guys, I need some advise, I have 2 razorback and 3 pink bellied side neck house in a 4 x 2 feet Tank. They have been living together for almost 4 months. Yesterday I notice 1 of the razorback attacking 2 of the pink bellied by biting their feets. Any advise? Or is that normal? Because after that, I can still see them bask together and the pink bellied even climb onto the razorback when under water.

 

[wellington]

I wouldn't mix species and that seems too small for 5 turtles. Either way I would separate them. Your already seeing bad results of the mix.

 

[Alec]

I wouldn't mix species and that seems too small for 5 turtles. Either way I would separate them. Your already seeing bad results of the mix.

Thanks for the advise bro, my plan is to transfer the 2 razorback to another tank. Will it be advisable to keep 2 razorback together in 1 tank and leave the 3 pink bellied in the 4 x 2 feet tank? It will be tough (space constraint) for me to get another 4 tanks to house 1 each of the turtles.

 

[KevinGG]

If they are biting one another, then they need to be separated. Them basking together isn't evidence that they are getting along. How large are your pink bellies? A 75 gallon is too small for all five and even seems small for a trio. Personally, I'd leave the razorbacks' in the 75 and move the trio to a large water trough. They come in all shapes and sizes and are much cheaper than aquariums.

 

[Alec]

If they are biting one another, then they need to be separated. Them basking together isn't evidence that they are getting along. How large are your pink bellies? A 75 gallon is too small for all five and even seems small for a trio. Personally, I'd leave the razorbacks' in the 75 and move the trio to a large water trough. They come in all shapes and sizes and are much cheaper than aquariums.

Thank you Kevin, they have been living together for more than 4 months and they can stack or rest on top of each others when in the water, so I thought there isnt any tank sharing issue. They are all very small, all less than 2 inch. The pet shop owner told me it is safe for me to put them together for about 2 years which then I need to get another bigger tank for them. I just called the pet shop guy again, he ask me to monitor if the biting still goes on then I have to separate the razors to another tank.

 

[ZEROPILOT]

Remember, Alec, that most pet shops will tell you anything that sells more animals. (or anything else they want to sell)
Pet shop advice is very rarely good advice.

 

[SarahChelonoidis]

You're already seeing tank sharing issues - the biting. This is how turtles lose toes. It is not kind to allow this to continue. You need another tank.

 

[Alec]

Remember, Alec, that most pet shops will tell you anything that sells more animals. (or anything else they want to sell)
Pet shop advice is very rarely good advice.

You're already seeing tank sharing issues - the biting. This is how turtles lose toes. It is not kind to allow this to continue. You need another tank.

Thanks guys, gona transfer the 2 razorbacks to a temporary 2 feet tank later. So they will be safe if there aint other species? Razorbacks will not bite same kind? Hope I dont have to get more tanks or troughs. Appreciate all the kind advise.

 

[SarahChelonoidis]

They may keep biting and all need to be kept separate - it's sometimes hard to predict how anti social an individual turtle is. Provide the largest space you can - it's really the best way to prevent fighting.

 

[KevinGG]

They may bite each other. Really depends on the turtles and the enclosure. If you setup a well thought out, heavily planted enclosure, the likelihood that they will bite each other is less. It can still happen, and you may have to separate more turtles, but providing an enriching enclosure with plenty of hiding spots and chances to get away from each other will only help. Here's an enclosure I setup a couple of year ago for my Geoclemys Hamiltonii:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/little-slice-of-nature-hamiltonii.110128/

 

[Markw84]

Thanks guys, gona transfer the 2 razorbacks to a temporary 2 feet tank later. So they will be safe if there aint other species? Razorbacks will not bite same kind? Hope I dont have to get more tanks or troughs. Appreciate all the kind advise.

Alec

I have 1.2 razorbacks in my large pond with about 50 other turtles - 10 other species. It is very large and lots of hides and places to have their own spaces. I have noticed the razorbacks tend to be a bit territorial over space the male considers 'his own'. But that seems to only be with two other species of turtles. Those turtles normally choose to stay in other areas of the pond anyway. The rest he totally ignores even if right on top of him. I have some of the young razorbacks from last year in a smaller tank with some other of last year's hatchlings. Again lots of plant hides, and no real problems, but I always watch for it. The stinkpots actually seem to be worse at the tail nipping in a community setting that is smaller.

I believe aquatics do better if not kept alone. Their basking behaviors are developed for security of a group and when all basking, touching each other, they become a multi headed group much better at spotting "danger" and ready to plunge to safety. In feeding, as turtles are opportunistic scavengers, the group helps each other (not necessarily by intent but by actions) by giving purchase to help tear things apart. Other turtles seem to help stimulate feeding behavior.

Most turtles never show aggression to other turtles, and even mating behavior is quite benign. A few species are more aggressive, such as Trachemys (the further south in latitude they come from, the more aggressive they can be) and in that case I do not keep male Trachemys in my pond. But that is the exception. I do only keep U.S. turtles now. Sternotherus aggression to my experience is for some reason only directed at specific species they seem to want to keep distance from and easily managed with enough space and hides.

 

[Yvonne G]

Hi Alec: You need to change your thinking about why they stack on top of each other to bask. It isn't because they are getting along, it's for security, like Mark said above. Plus, the guy on top gets more sun.

 

[Moozillion]

Alec

I have 1.2 razorbacks in my large pond with about 50 other turtles - 10 other species. It is very large and lots of hides and places to have their own spaces. I have noticed the razorbacks tend to be a bit territorial over space the male considers 'his own'. But that seems to only be with two other species of turtles. Those turtles normally choose to stay in other areas of the pond anyway. The rest he totally ignores even if right on top of him. I have some of the young razorbacks from last year in a smaller tank with some other of last year's hatchlings. Again lots of plant hides, and no real problems, but I always watch for it. The stinkpots actually seem to be worse at the tail nipping in a community setting that is smaller.

I believe aquatics do better if not kept alone. Their basking behaviors are developed for security of a group and when all basking, touching each other, they become a multi headed group much better at spotting "danger" and ready to plunge to safety. In feeding, as turtles are opportunistic scavengers, the group helps each other (not necessarily by intent but by actions) by giving purchase to help tear things apart. Other turtles seem to help stimulate feeding behavior.

Most turtles never show aggression to other turtles, and even mating behavior is quite benign. A few species are more aggressive, such as Trachemys (the further south in latitude they come from, the more aggressive they can be) and in that case I do not keep male Trachemys in my pond. But that is the exception. I do only keep U.S. turtles now. Sternotherus aggression to my experience is for some reason only directed at specific species they seem to want to keep distance from and easily managed with enough space and hides.

Mark: do you think mud turtles do better in groups, too?

 

[Markw84]

Mark: do you think mud turtles do better in groups, too?

Especially with hatchlings and younger turtles, I have found all I have kept have done better with others with them. Once they are established and doing well, I don't think it makes that much difference. However, I do note that if one turtle start to bask, it attracts others to do the same. When one starts to eat, it attracts others to join in. It's also interesting to note, that in my pond, for the most part, they tend to seek out others of the same species. I will see painted turtles normally together, as with the maps, and cooters. The razorbacks are most always together, and in a different part of the pond I will find the stinkpots. Not always, but most often.

 

[Moozillion]

Especially with hatchlings and younger turtles, I have found all I have kept have done better with others with them. Once they are established and doing well, I don't think it makes that much difference. However, I do note that if one turtle start to bask, it attracts others to do the same. When one starts to eat, it attracts others to join in. It's also interesting to note, that in my pond, for the most part, they tend to seek out others of the same species. I will see painted turtles normally together, as with the maps, and cooters. The razorbacks are most always together, and in a different part of the pond I will find the stinkpots. Not always, but most often.

Thanks!!!

 

[Alec]

They may bite each other. Really depends on the turtles and the enclosure. If you setup a well thought out, heavily planted enclosure, the likelihood that they will bite each other is less. It can still happen, and you may have to separate more turtles, but providing an enriching enclosure with plenty of hiding spots and chances to get away from each other will only help. Here's an enclosure I setup a couple of year ago for my Geoclemys Hamiltonii:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/little-slice-of-nature-hamiltonii.110128/

Nice set up and nice hamiltonii. How I wish I can get 1 too. Thanks for the tips, might get some of the driftwood, they look awesome!

 

[Alec]

They may keep biting and all need to be kept separate - it's sometimes hard to predict how anti social an individual turtle is. Provide the largest space you can - it's really the best way to prevent fighting.

Alec

I have 1.2 razorbacks in my large pond with about 50 other turtles - 10 other species. It is very large and lots of hides and places to have their own spaces. I have noticed the razorbacks tend to be a bit territorial over space the male considers 'his own'. But that seems to only be with two other species of turtles. Those turtles normally choose to stay in other areas of the pond anyway. The rest he totally ignores even if right on top of him. I have some of the young razorbacks from last year in a smaller tank with some other of last year's hatchlings. Again lots of plant hides, and no real problems, but I always watch for it. The stinkpots actually seem to be worse at the tail nipping in a community setting that is smaller.

I believe aquatics do better if not kept alone. Their basking behaviors are developed for security of a group and when all basking, touching each other, they become a multi headed group much better at spotting "danger" and ready to plunge to safety. In feeding, as turtles are opportunistic scavengers, the group helps each other (not necessarily by intent but by actions) by giving purchase to help tear things apart. Other turtles seem to help stimulate feeding behavior.

Most turtles never show aggression to other turtles, and even mating behavior is quite benign. A few species are more aggressive, such as Trachemys (the further south in latitude they come from, the more aggressive they can be) and in that case I do not keep male Trachemys in my pond. But that is the exception. I do only keep U.S. turtles now. Sternotherus aggression to my experience is for some reason only directed at specific species they seem to want to keep distance from and easily managed with enough space and hides.

Hi Alec: You need to change your thinking about why they stack on top of each other to bask. It isn't because they are getting along, it's for security, like Mark said above. Plus, the guy on top gets more sun.

Thanks guys, I have already transfer the 2 razorbacks to another temporary 2 feet tank. I am moving house on April, so I will customize a new 6 x 3 feet tank for them. Appreciate all the good advise, thank you all for sharing your experience and knowledge!

 

[tglazie]

Years ago, I kept a trio of Ocadia sinensis, Golden thread turtles. They are beautiful turtles. Unfortunately, once they reached sexual maturity, the male started violently biting and attacking the two females. I had kept red ears, yellow bellies, red bellies, painted turtles, and Mississippi maps prior to keeping the golden threads, and I never had any problems with aggression. I separated each of them into their own 300 gallon stock tank outdoors under the partial shade of an oak, but I felt kind of lousy over the winter, keeping them each in a 100 gallon stock tank, given that such was all the space I could afford them at that time. I maintain virtual isolation with all of my tortoises, but when it comes to aquatics, I always kept them together, given Mark's reasoning, plus I like having one filtration system, one large environment for the animals to share. I eventually sold the trio.

Aggression can be mitigated in aquatics the same way it can be mitigated in tortoises. Either keep them separately or ensure a spacious enclosure with many hiding spaces. Interestingly enough, I've often found new world turtles to be far less aggressive than old world ones. Virtually all the animals that fall into the Mauremys genus (Reeves turtles, Caspian turtles, European pond turtles, etc), I've either read reports of aggression or seen it first hand. The only sliders or paints that I've found to be aggressive were exceedingly amorous males, though even generally amicable sliders can and do resort to biting if their enclosures are too small. These turtles, otherwise, seemed to coexist quite peacefully, though. The big exception among the new world turtles, as far as aggression is concerned, are the mud, musk and snapping turtles. I'm sure Mark's strategy of large habitats with lots of cover works well in the overwhelming majority of cases, but I'm also sure there are turtles out there in that mud/musk/snapper group that are just sadistic jerks who dream of nipping every chelonian backside that offends their hyper critical eye. Bottom line, do what you need to do, just ensure that the biting stops and that all your animals are given ample opportunity to thrive.

T.G.

 

[Alec]

Years ago, I kept a trio of Ocadia sinensis, Golden thread turtles. They are beautiful turtles. Unfortunately, once they reached sexual maturity, the male started violently biting and attacking the two females. I had kept red ears, yellow bellies, red bellies, painted turtles, and Mississippi maps prior to keeping the golden threads, and I never had any problems with aggression. I separated each of them into their own 300 gallon stock tank outdoors under the partial shade of an oak, but I felt kind of lousy over the winter, keeping them each in a 100 gallon stock tank, given that such was all the space I could afford them at that time. I maintain virtual isolation with all of my tortoises, but when it comes to aquatics, I always kept them together, given Mark's reasoning, plus I like having one filtration system, one large environment for the animals to share. I eventually sold the trio.

Aggression can be mitigated in aquatics the same way it can be mitigated in tortoises. Either keep them separately or ensure a spacious enclosure with many hiding spaces. Interestingly enough, I've often found new world turtles to be far less aggressive than old world ones. Virtually all the animals that fall into the Mauremys genus (Reeves turtles, Caspian turtles, European pond turtles, etc), I've either read reports of aggression or seen it first hand. The only sliders or paints that I've found to be aggressive were exceedingly amorous males, though even generally amicable sliders can and do resort to biting if their enclosures are too small. These turtles, otherwise, seemed to coexist quite peacefully, though. The big exception among the new world turtles, as far as aggression is concerned, are the mud, musk and snapping turtles. I'm sure Mark's strategy of large habitats with lots of cover works well in the overwhelming majority of cases, but I'm also sure there are turtles out there in that mud/musk/snapper group that are just sadistic jerks who dream of nipping every chelonian backside that offends their hyper critical eye. Bottom line, do what you need to do, just ensure that the biting stops and that all your animals are given ample opportunity to thrive.

T.G.

Thank you for the kind info T.G.