A few questions about my 4 months old Sulcatas

[AlexIbarra]

2 weeks ago, I adopted two Sulcatas, one is about 4 months old, the other one about a month older.
I have done lots of research on them, but it seems like every article I read tells me to do something different.
I've been feeding them the hay the guy I bought them from gave me, I don't remember if it's Alfalfa or Timothy hay. They don't really seem to like it though and barely eat any of it. I read a few times that this is pretty common in baby Sulcatas. I've also been giving them Romaine lettuce which they absolutely love. I try to put them outside in our backyard daily so they can get some exercise and natural sunlight. They both eat quite some of the grass whenever I put them out there. I also give them these Tortoise bites I bought at the pet store:
http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754879&lmdn=Reptile
They're not this exact brand though. I give a small amount of those to them once or twice a week.
And once or twice a week I sprinkle calcium on their food.
So my questions are:
What else besides Romaine lettuce would you recommend for them? I see all this info about adult Sulcatas, but I'm not sure if the same things apply to my little guys.
What to do about them not wanting the hay I give them? Should I just take the grass out of our backyard since they obviously seem to like that?
How many times a week is it ok for me to feed them the above mentioned Tortoise bites?
Do I give them calcium once or twice a week?

A few more questions about their habitat:
I bought this 'turtle hut' for them to hide in:
http://www.petco.com/product/102891...er-or-Land-Turtles.aspx?CoreCat=TurtleHPDecor

I got the XL size and they still have plenty of room in there, even when both of them are in at the same time. Is that enough for them to hide or should I get something else?

The temperature in their glass terrarium is between 73 and 76 degress during the day on one side and in the low 90s on the other side with the heading lamp. Is that warm enough for my little babies?
During the day I use a 10'' reflector-lamp with a 100 Watt exotic pet bulb and at night I use a 5.5'' reflector-lamp with a 75 Watt red exotic pet bulb. I was told the red one is for night time only, but a couple days ago I read this one should be on during the day as well. Again, I read so many different opinions on this and now don't know which is the right way to do it.
How low can the temperature go at night time?
Would you recommend getting a heat pad or are the lamps enough?

I've been soaking them in warm water about 3 times each week, is that enough? I was told 2 to 3 times a week is good, but then again, I read so many different things...

They both are very alert and seem happy. On the days when it's too cold to take them outside, I let them walk around the house for a couple hours while my son is taking a nap and they love to explore everything!

One more question, at what age can pyramiding start to occur?

Any help with all these questions is really appreciated!

I attached a picture of them

 

[AlexIbarra]

congrats on your new additions..i sure hope you know how big these guys get and have plans for them in the future.

as far as diet goes, here is a link you should read.
http://www.sulcata-station.org/diet.html

you need to get them a UVB light, either in the form of a Mercury Vapor Bulb, or a UVB Tube, best to use IMO is either the T-rex active UV heat 100w MVB, or the Repti-sun 10.0 tube. be sure to get a thermometer with a probe or a temp gun so you can monitor temps. MVB bulbs work as both a basking light and a UV light, i would purchase one online intead of ina a store as they are always overpriced in pet stores. you want the basking site at atleast 95 and the cool side in the high 70s

you should also switch their substrate to a mix of coco coir(eco-earth or bed-a-beast) and sand, you'd want a mix of 70/30 damp coir and sand, they need at least 70% humidity as babys to keep pyramiding away, which your little guys are already starting to show.

i recommed going through this website and reading as much at possible.
http://www.sulcata-station.org/

hopefully the resident sulcata experts here will chime in and give you there opinions and experiences as well.

Thanks for your reply!
I know how big they'll get, I did a lot of research on them before I decided to buy them.
The 100 Watt bulb I have is a R30 clear mercury vapor light.
I have 2 thermometers in their habitat, one on the cooler site and one in the basking area.
I asked about the pyramiding because I noticed that they already show that. The picture I posted was taken a day after I got them.

 

[Maggie Cummings]

Your babies are already starting to pyramid. There are 4 things IMHO needed to stop/prevent pyramiding. 1. Humidity is absolutely necessary and I recommend 80%. A good substrate that will stay moist is what you need, I use cypress mulch. In the wild they dig 20 foot long burrows then they poop and pee in them creating the ambient humidity needed to prevent pyramiding.2. A variety of food. I start with Spring Mix and add whatever is happening in the produce dept. endive, butter lettuce red and green leaf, kale, chard, collard. I cut that all up and make a tortoise salad and about 3 times a week I sprinkle the food with TNT bought from carolina pet supply. I'll give you a link. 3. Exercise, is super important. In the wild they walk for miles taking a bite here and another bite there and walk some more. 4. UVB...you are putting them outside so that is good. I recommend a Trex 100 watt bulb but if you are putting them out in the sun for more then 15 minutes a day you probably don't need a UVB light. But that's only if they are outside daily.
Soak them either every day or every other day. They generally will drink as soon as you put them in the water so 10 minutes is long enough. I hope that answers most of your questions. Here's some helpful links... I think the African Tort care sheet is the best and that site is the best advice you'll get. I hope this has helped, please continue to ask your questions and I would suggest you settle on one site for your advice or you will just get conflicting advice and you'll be confused.


http://africantortoise.com/

http://www.carolinapetsupply.com/catalog/index.php


This is Bob, he is about 80 pounds...

 

[AlexIbarra]

Your babies are already starting to pyramid. There are 4 things IMHO needed to stop/prevent pyramiding. 1. Humidity is absolutely necessary and I recommend 80%. A good substrate that will stay moist is what you need, I use cypress mulch. In the wild they dig 20 foot long burrows then they poop and pee in them creating the ambient humidity needed to prevent pyramiding.2. A variety of food. I start with Spring Mix and add whatever is happening in the produce dept. endive, butter lettuce red and green leaf, kale, chard, collard. I cut that all up and make a tortoise salad and about 3 times a week I sprinkle the food with TNT bought from carolina pet supply. I'll give you a link. 3. Exercise, is super important. In the wild they walk for miles taking a bite here and another bite there and walk some more. 4. UVB...you are putting them outside so that is good. I recommend a Trex 100 watt bulb but if you are putting them out in the sun for more then 15 minutes a day you probably don't need a UVB light. But that's only if they are outside daily.
Soak them either every day or every other day. They generally will drink as soon as you put them in the water so 10 minutes is long enough. I hope that answers most of your questions. Here's some helpful links... I think the African Tort care sheet is the best and that site is the best advice you'll get. I hope this has helped, please continue to ask your questions and I would suggest you settle on one site for your advice or you will just get conflicting advice and you'll be confused.


http://africantortoise.com/

http://www.carolinapetsupply.com/catalog/index.php


This is Bob, he is about 80 pounds...

Do you buy the cypress mulch at the pet store?
So it's ok if they don't eat the hay? Spring Mix mixed with the other things you mentioned will be enough for them? What is TNT?
The Calcium I've been giving them is the Repti Calcium from ZooMed, is that ok for them?
I will stop by at the pet store tomorrow and buy another UVB light for the days I can't put them outside. Do I just alwasy use that one instead of the 100 Watt mercury vapor I have right now? Where can I get it cheapest?
So just to make sure, it's enough if the red light is on during night time then, right?
Thanks so much for your input!
I saw a few pictures of Bob when I was browsing the forum last night. He's beautiful! I love the pictures of his squash face!

---

Maggie, I actually meant to ask this:
Do I need to use the Trex 100 Watt bulb instead of the 100 Watt mercury vapor bulb from SolarBrite I have right now or does that one work as a UVB light? Where can I get the bulbs cheapest?

---

Would you recommend getting some of the mazuri tortoise diet food for them? How much should they eat each day?

 

[Tom]

Oh boy! We've got one of those can of worms situations here. If you ask ten different people, you'll get ten different answers. The hard thing is which one to listen to. The really hard thing is that none of them are necessarily wrong. For example, Maggie likes spring mix and store bought greens. I prefer weeds and grasses. Each way has its good and bad points and neither way will harm your torts. I actually raised my older ones on store bought greens, but have since switched to primarily grass and weeds. BTW, the grass hay is more for older torts, not so much the young ones. You live about 45 minutes away from me. Just a little East on the 126. You are welcome to bring the hubby and youngin's and come visit. I have an almost three year old little girl( human, I mean), so maybe the little ones could play? It would be much easier to show you these things than try to tell you in type. I've got four sullies. A little one like yours and three biggun's, so you can see where you are headed.

On to your questions:

1. All of the advice on what to feed is good, so far. I prefer fresh grass and weeds. I'll supplement with store bought greens from time to time, but not very often. Cactus is good too. Spineless opuntia works great and can be found in most "ethnic" stores or grown yourself. Just chop it up into little bitty pieces. Its taken me many years to learn which weeds are good and I'm adding new ones all the time. I also feed mulberry leaves when they are around. Ventura is a great place for weeds.

2. How much and what kind of supplementation really depends on what you are feeding, how much sun they get and what their environment is like. Usually I like twice a week on calcium and once a week for vitamins. This is for babies, like yours. Less for older ones. This part is not critical. If they get a good, varied diet and regular sunshine, they really don't NEED anything. It is, however, easy to over do it.

3. The hide you got for them is great, but they still need a humid hide box and quickly as they are already pyramiding. My two year old looked just like yours at three months when I got her. Get a handle on it now and minimize the damage. Come see me and I've got an extra one that I'm not using or we can build one real quick while you are here.

4. Temps: There are three temps to be concerned with. Cool side, 70-75. Warm side, 80-90. Basking SPOT, 95-120. You need a remote probe to accurately measure these. Night temps can drop to 70ish for little ones, less for big ones. I like to put a flat rock, like a piece of slate, directly under the basking light. This absorbs heat when they aren't on it and safely warms their little bellies while they bask. To measure your basking spot temp, put a brick or a tortoise sized rock under them lamp and leave it there for two hours. Put your probe on top of this for another hour or so. In a small enclosure with hot lights 3-4 inches can make a big difference. Do not use and heat pads or mats for under tank heating. Heat should come from overhead.

5. Soaks: 2 or 3 times a week is fine. 4 or 5 won't hurt anything.

6. In my opinion, if you are getting sunshine at least couple of times a week, you don't need any of those expensive light bulb set-ups. I have them and don't use them. Save your money or put it toward a bigger, better outdoor enclosure. The climate where you live is great for sunning most of the year. There may be a few Winter stretches every year with out sunshine for a couple of weeks, but this has never been a problem for any of mine.

7. Pyramiding starts as soon as they are out of the egg. I've seen little ones only a couple of weeks old starting. My youngest one was pretty bad at three months old when I got her. Keep them humid. All the time. Once they hit 4-6 inches you can relax a little. The jury is still out on this one, but I don't think it can be stopped once it starts. Some people say it can. Conversely, I don't think you can make a 6" smooth one start to pyramid. I've got a research project going on it right now, if you want to hear some theories. I answered your substrate question already in you other post.

It will all work out. You've got the right idea already and you are asking the right questions. PM me if you want to come over and see some stuff first hand.

 

[Maggie Cummings]

You can get cypress mulch at the bigger pet stores like Petco or Petsmart. I disagreed with roachman, once you get the cypress mulch and keep it damp or moist you won't need a humid hide. I already said if they go outside everyday you don't need a UVB light but if you already have a MV light use it and save your money. Roachman says to feed grasses and weeds and if you want to go collect them then you can feed that. In a perfect world your babies will eat grasses and weeds and you won't mind collecting them
TNT is a powdered supplement that is better and has more good stuff then just plain calcium and I gave you a link for it. HTH

 

[tortoisenerd]

Great advice already. I do want to remind that all foods should ideally be organic. Torts can be more sensitive to these. The stuff from yards that has chemicals is worse than the non-organic produce in the store meant for human consumption. So, be especially careful collecting weeds and stuff outside unless you know they are chemical free. Unless they are from your pesticide and fertilizer free yard, from a neighbor's who you trust that tells you this, or from a wild area that could not have chemicals that you are allowed to pick from (and then I would want it away from foot traffic and car exhaust), then you should assume it has chemicals. Many of us here unfortunately don't have yards so we tend to feed our torts lettuces instead (like me with my Russian). I don't have many places to get safe foods for my tort besides the organic section of the store. I didn't have good luck growing stuff. I do have one area near my house to get weeds but its a bit tough and not much this time of year anyways. With a Sulcata I'd definitely say you should get set up at least part of your yard as chemical free graze (hopefully you've done this already with them eating it). Plant weeds and other greens with the grass. You can buy seeds online. This will ensure they have some variety and get introduced to it now, and later hopefully this can be close to all of their diet.

Let us know if any of your questions slipped through the cracks. I didn't check on this. Best wishes.

 

[Maggie Cummings]

I would love to feed my inside torts grasses and weeds, but I live in the Pacific North West and there are no grasses and weeds available. This is not California and it's the middle of winter here so all the outside growth has either been frozen and is gone or it drowned and is gone. I always recommend Spring Mix for baby tortoises, most babies won't eat hay.
You can either use the light you have or just make sure you put them in the sun a lot. You don't have to get another bulb.