A few sulcata questions

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Edd

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Edd said:
I am a new sulcata tortoise owner and I worry my two 20 inch tortoises may not be healthy. I think I need some advice. Also, I have never joined a forum nor made a post. Is this where I start?

My name is Ed. I live in Honolulu. I recently adopted two 20 inch sulcata tortoises that grew too large for their previous owner/enclosure. I thought my 2000 square foot yard would be a perfect place for them since it is fully enclosed with strong fencing, very well planted with a large variety of plants, has large sections of grass, is located in the dryer east side of honolulu, gets a lot of direct sun, has plenty of shady places.

I thought I could handle the complexities of caring for these tortoises since I have owned turtles for year including successfully breeding central american wood turtles in this yard described above. I did research prior to adopting the two tortoises and thought caring for them was pretty straight forward. These two tortoises appeared alert, healthy and active when I got them except for the eye problem I will describe below. They seemed very active and moved quickly around the yard in the beginning. They did not nor do not have runny noses nor bubbles from nose. Never wheezing. However since we got them two months ago I have developed the following concerns about them:

1) Their eyes will get a red, inflamed covering (nictitating membrane?) coming from the front lower part of their eyes and going back and up. The membrane is bulky and inflamed and takes a while to return to its normal position. While it is exposed I do not believe the tortoises can see.

Once the tissue returns the eye appears normal. It is not runny, nor dry, nor excessively sunken.

I have read that vitamin A deficiency can cause something like this. I recently placed them both in a smaller enclosure/pen in hopes of getting them to eat some carrots but so far no luck. Does this sound like vitamin A deficiency? If so how can I get them more vitamin A if they are not eating (see below)? Drops in nose? Injection?

2) The tortoises never come out to eat. For the first two days or so after we first got them they would walk around the yard and eat plants they encountered -grass, shrubs. Then they found a dry cool place to rest. Since then they don't come out any more. I have on a couple of occasions carried them out and placed them on the grass. They try to return to their hiding spots immediately. I have placed both of them in water allowing them to soak for a while.

My reading about sulcata tortoises suggested that they were "eating machines". This does not seem to be the case with mine. Are they sick? Are they scared? Are they just not hungry? What about thirsty? Could they be simply eating the dried leaves that fall from the overhead trees?

I realize I could bring them both to a vet. I am not worried about spending the money. However, I have not been able to find the name of a vet here in Hawaii that has been recognized as having meaningful sulcata experience. I am worried I will find a sucata-inexperienced vet who purports to know about sulcata.

Is this the right place to post my concerns? Any advice?

Thanks and Aloha,
Ed
 

Yvonne G

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Hi Ed:

When the nictitating membrane swells like that it's stress related. You may just need to give them some time to get used to their new environment. It's not a vitamin A thing. When THAT happens, the whole eye area swells and it is stuck shut. Its interesting that this happens to both tortoises. I had a gulf coast box turtle like that. Whenever I touched or messed with him the membrane would swell out and be red an ugly. I adopted him out and the new keeper tells me that once the turtle settled in the eye stopped doing that. It would be soothing if you were to put eye drops or sterile saline in there, but I think this is just something you'll have to give some time to.

#2 is also something caused by moving to a new habitat. They'll settle in after a bit. It may take some time. Just make sure they're comfortable. You can place some food in their hiding place if you're worried about them not eating.
 

Laura

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do that have a place to soak and get plenty of water?
what are your temps?
what type of plants did they eat? anything toxic?
can you post pictures?
Do they have a house to hide in?
welcome, and yes, you have come to the right place. we have several hawaii members here.. Onarock is one.. maybe he can help with Vet info.
depends on what Island you are on.
 

dmmj

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Do yo know how they were kept before, were they grazers, or did they get fed a lot by their previous owners? Concerning the eyes did they also do that at the old place? if not it might be stress related like yvonne says.
 

October

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I agree. It sounds like a stress issue. How recently did you get them? Depending on how they were raised, a 20" tort is probably not used to being moved and messed with.

Could it be heat related? They have a tendency to sleep out the hottest part of the day. Maybe you're just missing their forays. And yes, they can and will eat dried dead stuff if they feel like it.
 

Edd

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Yvonne, Laura, Dmmj, October, Thank you all for your concern and helpful reply.

I am sorry for the long lengthy reply but I just found your postings. As I mentioned before, I am new to this.

Yvonne,
Your thoughts about the eye membrane prominence being related to stress now seems likely. When I got the tortoises, the smaller of the two had the red swollen membranes. Before bringing the tortoises to me that day, the owner sprayed them down with a hose. He stated the only other time he had seen the eye membranes red was the last time he sprayed them down 2 years earlier. The next day the membranes were normal appearing again. Also, there was white uric acid deposits in the back of the pickup.

Over the last 2 months I have been taking the tortoises and placing them to soak in our shallow pond. When I did this the smaller tortoises eye membranes would again appear red and swollen. Again they would return to normal within hours.

A couple of days ago, because of the concerns mentioned above, I picked up both tortoises and put them in a pen. I thought I may need to give them more concentrated care. When I did this the larger of the two tortoises' eyes displayed the same red membranes.

Your point is well taken, these tortoises must be afraid at this point.

Laura,
Temperature: our temperature here varies from 70's to high 80's (very rarely high 60's and low 90's). Appropriate?

Water: I do have a shallow pond for them to soak but they never come out and use it. That is why I have been placing them in the pond. Should I keep doing this? If not where will they get their water?

Housing: currently they have found the driest part of my yard and are parked between the fence and an areca palm. While they are very secluded they do not have a roof over their shells. They are sheltered from the sprinklers but it does rain here every other day or so (usually lightly).

Surrounding plants: I have a tropical yard with roughly 30 types of plants and trees growing. None are know to me to be toxic to humans but I have no idea if they would be toxic to the torts. How can I find this out?

Picture: I will work on this.

Dmmy
Previous owner: I have lost his contact but from the little he told me they were not grazing and were being fed by his mother. I don't know the interval or the method or the food stuff. I do know they were kept in a dry dirty environment.

October,
I have had them for 2 months or so and while it is possible I am missing their forays I tend to doubt it. First my wife is home and keeps and eye out for them. Second, every time they have gotten up and moved, large sections of foliage has been crushed and I have needed to replace multiple sprinkler risers.

From what I have read, the temperatures I related above should be o.k. for sulcatas. Do you agree?

They are constantly surrounded with falling leaves (beach Hibiscus(Hau tree)). Maybe they are simply eating them. Can they collect water from the rain?

Thank you all again for your replies. I will attempt to contact "onarock" for the name of a good vet.

Thanks and Aloha,
Edd
 
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Maggie Cummings

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I think it's the stress from moving and being spoiled by his mother. They do not yet recognize grass and weeds as regular diet. I think they are waiting to be fed. Also this species of tortoise needs a small secure "hide" to sleep in. Even with a great climate such as yours I think they may still need a hot basking light to bring their inner metabolism up to 85 or 90 degrees. An adult Sulcata will not deliberately starve themselves. It may just be a matter of adjustment, but their metabolism needs to be 85 to 90 degrees or they will not eat as they can't digest the food. Just because your ambient temp is 85 degrees that does not mean they are 85 degrees inside. I suggest a secure hide and a hot basking light...
 

Edd

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Maggie,

Thanks for the input. I am going to make them a more secure blind/house in which they will be protected from the rain. I will measure the temperature in this blind. If it is low I will install a heat lamp.

Question: You mentioned a temperature of 85. Is this the 1) average 24hr temperature? 2) average daytime temperature? 3) average mid-day temperature?

Thanks again,

Edd

p.s. Am I suppose to reply directly to your post or do I hit reply-all like this post
 
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Maggie Cummings

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Edd said:
Maggie,

Thanks for the input. I am going to make them a more secure blind/house in which they will be protected from the rain. I will measure the temperature in this blind. If it is low I will install a heat lamp.

Question: You mentioned a temperature of 85. Is this the 1) average 24hr temperature? 2) average daytime temperature? 3) average mid-day temperature?

Thanks again,

Edd

p.s. Am I suppose to reply directly to your post or do I hit reply-all like this post

Hit reply and then this happens. It just makes question and answer easier to see. Their inner temp needs to be over 85 degrees. I would sort of guestomate this is a 24 hour temp. My Bob eats before going to bed to sleep and he sleeps on a heat mat that is set at 90 degrees. I live in Oregon. I would assume he expects his food to digest as he sleeps. He poops all night and first thing in the morning. Bob is a 100 pound 13 year old Sulcata. Even when it is 85 or 90 degrees outside he will still go in and get under his basking light several times during the day. I think he spends most of his time under the light with taking breaks during the day where he walks around and grazes. Then he gets back under the light. Off and on all day.

I am saying this is an inner temp.
 

Edd

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Maggie,

I just hit reply. Correct?

100 lbs at 13 y.o. I think my torts are 12-13 years old as well but they only weight roughly 35 and 50 lbs each. Maybe they did not get everything they needed when they were young?

I will check the temperature of the enclosure once I have constructed it. If lower than an average of 85 I will place a heat lamp. What about a heat pad?

Thanks again,
Edd

maggie3fan said:
Edd said:
Maggie,

Thanks for the input. I am going to make them a more secure blind/house in which they will be protected from the rain. I will measure the temperature in this blind. If it is low I will install a heat lamp.

Question: You mentioned a temperature of 85. Is this the 1) average 24hr temperature? 2) average daytime temperature? 3) average mid-day temperature?

Thanks again,

Edd

p.s. Am I suppose to reply directly to your post or do I hit reply-all like this post

Hit reply and then this happens. It just makes question and answer easier to see. Their inner temp needs to be over 85 degrees. I would sort of guestomate this is a 24 hour temp. My Bob eats before going to bed to sleep and he sleeps on a heat mat that is set at 90 degrees. I live in Oregon. I would assume he expects his food to digest as he sleeps. He poops all night and first thing in the morning. Bob is a 100 pound 13 year old Sulcata. Even when it is 85 or 90 degrees outside he will still go in and get under his basking light several times during the day. I think he spends most of his time under the light with taking breaks during the day where he walks around and grazes. Then he gets back under the light. Off and on all day.

I am saying this is an inner temp.
 
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