A scammer of sulcata tortoise breeder

[GardenDmpls]

Would be interesting to know the number of offspring. The proportions are the statistical probabilities, but not necessarily what occurs at one particular time. The probability for having a boy or a girl is 50:50 (in people- in some reptiles temperature plays a part) . However, some people have 3 girls and one boy or the reverse. When each child is conceived, there is that 50:50 chance for one or the other. It's not like the sperm look back and say, "well they had a girl last time, so now we have to let the boy producing sperm have a turn". The larger the number of offspring the more likelihood there is to approach the probability ratio. Three or even five hatchlings might all be heterozygous, but it is unlikely that out of ten or twenty, there would not be albinos. I did know someone who had 13 girls before having a boy, though.

 

[Gijoux]

There is no way to tell if the tortoise is heterozygos except by seeing what type offspring is can produce. No blood test can tell if that allele of albinism is present.



With albinism, the allele for it is not dominant, so the only way to know for sure if it is present by knowing the parents. If one of the parents was albino and the other normal, there is a 100% chance that ALL of the offspring will have that allele. They will all be het (heterozygos) for albino, but none will be albino.

IF they are breeding two sulcatas both het for albino, only 25% of the offspring will be albino. 50% will be het for albino, and 25% will be normal. In that case normal looking offspring SHOULD be sold as possible het for albino, since 1/3 of them will not have the albino allele at all.

The issue becomes even more complicated if there is any chance at all the female has had any contact with another male in the past few years. Strict care in which tortoises have any access to possible mates is very important. In the case of albinism, there is absolutely no way to tell a het from a normal except by seeing what offspring it produces

So in buying heterozygos animals, it is totally up to the quality of the breeding program and the honesty of the exact lineage of the animal.

Is it even possible to ever have a Tortoise Homozygous for Albinism? Wouldn't these Albino tortoises be at risk for all the genetic problems associated with Albinism in other species of animals? I really don't get the attraction.

 

[ZEROPILOT]

So, he got screwed out out $19,950?

 

[waterview]

Mark, Thank you for helping me explain.

 

[Markw84]

Is it even possible to ever have a Tortoise Homozygous for Albinism? Wouldn't these Albino tortoises be at risk for all the genetic problems associated with Albinism in other species of animals? I really don't get the attraction.

Yes, there are indeed albino sulcatas - so those are homozygos for albinism.

I haven't dealt with albino tortoises personally so have no personal experience with their overall health.

 

[Gijoux]

Yes, there are indeed albino sulcatas - so those are homozygos for albinism.

I haven't dealt with albino tortoises personally so have no personal experience with their overall health.

Thank you Mark. So only Albino female to Albino Male will produce albino offspring 100% of the time. I believe Andrew @arizona Tortoise Compound is breeding Albino Sulcatas.

 

[1snakeman1]

There are different albino gene pools for albino Sulcatas so to produce an albino sulcata both your parents would have to come from the same albino gene pool. So if you did not produce albinos from Joe"s 100% het male than your female albino sulcata is from a different gene pool then that Joe's Line....

Example if you bred a Kahl line albino Boa to a Sharp line albino Boa even though both boas are albinos all the babies will be normal looking but double het to both albino lines of the parents...

For you to produce albino sulcatas you will need a 100% het or an albino female from Joe's line of albinos...Or a male 100% het boa albino from the albino gene pool your albino female was produced from...

 

[turtlesteve]

There are different albino gene pools for albino Sulcatas so to produce an albino sulcata both your parents would have to come from the same albino gene pool. So if you did not produce albinos from Joe"s 100% het male than your female albino sulcata is from a different gene pool then that Joe's Line....

Example if you bred a Kahl line albino Boa to a Sharp line albino Boa even though both boas are albinos all the babies will be normal looking but double het to both albino lines of the parents...

For you to produce albino sulcatas you will need a 100% het or an albino female from Joe's line of albinos...Or a male 100% het boa albino from the albino gene pool your albino female was produced from...

I was going to mention this too.

waterview, do you know if the albino female he was bred to was from Joe’s lineage of albinos?

 

[Markw84]

There are different albino gene pools for albino Sulcatas so to produce an albino sulcata both your parents would have to come from the same albino gene pool. So if you did not produce albinos from Joe"s 100% het male than your female albino sulcata is from a different gene pool then that Joe's Line....

Example if you bred a Kahl line albino Boa to a Sharp line albino Boa even though both boas are albinos all the babies will be normal looking but double het to both albino lines of the parents...

For you to produce albino sulcatas you will need a 100% het or an albino female from Joe's line of albinos...Or a male 100% het boa albino from the albino gene pool your albino female was produced from...

While many of the designer reptiles (in the gecko and ball python area particularly) have produced such complex patterns, we now do see polygenic traits. There, not just one gene and locus controls a trait. But this is with dozens of generations of selective breeding and combinations of desired traits in similar locus locations on the DNA. With sulcatas, we certainly are not to that point. The trait for albinism is a single locus and pair of alleles - gene. 2 Different Genetic lines of albinos will consistently produce albinos. The locus is always in the same place.

 

[1snakeman1]

this happened with the albino red eared sliders many years ago. there are many different RES albino gene pools and the asian market was buying every albino het red ear slider they could find and imported them into Asia. well their ponds were full of these het red sliders of many different gene pools and when the babies started to hatch they were normal looking double hets with no albinos because the res albino hets didnt breed to the het albino RES from their own gene pool. And of course they assumed that they all the res albino hets weren't hets and they were mad....

 

[1snakeman1]

Markw84 wrote "

Different Genetic lines of albinos will consistently produce albinos. The locus is always in the same place.

Absolutely not, not with each other. If the albinos are from different genetic lines they WILL NOT produce albino babies.... Again I will use this one example of the many examples out there ......breed a Kahl genetic line albino Boa to Sharp genetic line albino and all the babies will be normal looking but carry the genes from both genetic lines...

Now if what your saying is true then breeding these kahl albinos to sharp albinos would produce babies but they dont.. this is why they named them the Kahl albino and the Sharp albino so breeders know what line they have so they dont breed to the other albino line and get normals..... have proved this out in a number of different reptiles many years ago... This is well known in the field...

 

[Joe]

Hey Everyone. Alan Wei is a liar! Alan did not state all the facts.

Here’s the part of the story Alan Wei doesn’t tell anyone. I wonder why!!!!?

I sold Aggie Huang from Water view Co. LTD (Alan’s wife/partner) an Adult 100% Het. Albino male tortoise , with microchip 2 years ago.They didn’t remember animal was microchipped! Waterview then resold that animal to one of their customers back then 2 years ago. Didn’t hear anything from Waterview for 2 years! Also Animal was ready to breed when I sold it to them 2 years ago. Then recently, a couple months ago, they complained that the animal was bred and not a Het. First they told me animal was sold to another customer 2 years ago. They they said the customer moved to China and sold the animal back to them. Then later they changed their story yet again and said that the tortoise was at their facility for the entire 2 years. The story kept evolving. I asked for the microchip number, and the first reaction was that they didn’t know I had the animal micro chipped. I had done so for my protection, so that an animal could not be switched out. Also to avoid a situation like this. I asked Alan’s wife Aggie to please provide the micro chip number and prove it is was my animal. I mean it was 2 years after the sale and I know the animal was resold 2 years ago because Aggie told me. After about 2 weeks of saying they didn’t have a micro chip reader they said they bought one and then Aggie gave me the wrong micro chip number. The funny thing is I sent all the original paperwork for the microchip over to them when I shipped the animal. So I simply called my Vet. and asked for a print out for the microchip they had on file. When I confirmed it with my Vet., it was a completely different number. So after 2 years had passed and the animal changing hands, there was no way of knowing 2 years later if the the Animal in question was the one I sold them. They had been my customers for 10 years! So....Even after the 2 years, and the animal being resold. I tried to be a good person and business man. I still offered them $20,000 in replacement animals even after they could not provide proof, so they could recoup their customers monies. That was still not good enough. They wife Aggie insulted me, called me names, and I still tried to be a good businessman. You see this is a habit with them. Over the years they always complained about an albino not having a perfect shell, so they could get free animals on the next shipment. If they didn’t get what they wanted free animals in the past, they threatened that they would make bad posts of me on social media. I told Aggie I would resolve the issue once again but only if her husband Alan, (a bit of a hot head), didn’t post untrue things on the internet. They demanded an adult Male Het in replacement, which I did not have. Or they wanted an Adult Male Albino, and that they would send the difference in monies after they received it. Yeah right. And to be truthful I didn’t want to send them another proven 100% Het. male Albino again only to get a phone call years later again. Shortly thereafter, he posted on Facebook and now here. So my question is to many people here reading this. Would you refund or even credit a customer after 2 years and they cannot price it’s the animal you sent them? Well I was going to anyway! Before they started to bash me and spread untrue things about me.

 

[iAmCentrochelys sulcata]

Hey Everyone. Alan Wei is a liar! Alan did not state all the facts.

Here’s the part of the story Alan Wei doesn’t tell anyone. I wonder why!!!!?

I sold Aggie Huang from Water view Co. LTD (Alan’s wife/partner) an Adult 100% Het. Albino male tortoise , with microchip 2 years ago.They didn’t remember animal was microchipped! Waterview then resold that animal to one of their customers back then 2 years ago. Didn’t hear anything from Waterview for 2 years! Also Animal was ready to breed when I sold it to them 2 years ago. Then recently, a couple months ago, they complained that the animal was bred and not a Het. First they told me animal was sold to another customer 2 years ago. They they said the customer moved to China and sold the animal back to them. Then later they changed their story yet again and said that the tortoise was at their facility for the entire 2 years. The story kept evolving. I asked for the microchip number, and the first reaction was that they didn’t know I had the animal micro chipped. I had done so for my protection, so that an animal could not be switched out. Also to avoid a situation like this. I asked Alan’s wife Aggie to please provide the micro chip number and prove it is was my animal. I mean it was 2 years after the sale and I know the animal was resold 2 years ago because Aggie told me. After about 2 weeks of saying they didn’t have a micro chip reader they said they bought one and then Aggie gave me the wrong micro chip number. The funny thing is I sent all the original paperwork for the microchip over to them when I shipped the animal. So I simply called my Vet. and asked for a print out for the microchip they had on file. When I confirmed it with my Vet., it was a completely different number. So after 2 years had passed and the animal changing hands, there was no way of knowing 2 years later if the the Animal in question was the one I sold them. They had been my customers for 10 years! So....Even after the 2 years, and the animal being resold. I tried to be a good person and business man. I still offered them $20,000 in replacement animals even after they could not provide proof, so they could recoup their customers monies. That was still not good enough. They wife Aggie insulted me, called me names, and I still tried to be a good businessman. You see this is a habit with them. Over the years they always complained about an albino not having a perfect shell, so they could get free animals on the next shipment. If they didn’t get what they wanted free animals in the past, they threatened that they would make bad posts of me on social media. I told Aggie I would resolve the issue once again but only if her husband Alan, (a bit of a hot head), didn’t post untrue things on the internet. They demanded an adult Male Het in replacement, which I did not have. Or they wanted an Adult Male Albino, and that they would send the difference in monies after they received it. Yeah right. And to be truthful I didn’t want to send them another proven 100% Het. male Albino again only to get a phone call years later again. Shortly thereafter, he posted on Facebook and now here. So my question is to many people here reading this. Would you refund or even credit a customer after 2 years and they cannot price it’s the animal you sent them? Well I was going to anyway! Before they started to bash me and spread untrue things about me.

This makes Sense.

 

[Joe]

I just found out about this post 30 minutes ago. Thank you to the member that alerted me.