Adopting 2 year old Sulcata - pyramiding?

santorozoo

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Please see 2 attached pictures of the 2 year old Sulcata I’m adopting on Saturday.

He’s been raised for the past year in a 100 gallon aquarium and only fed kale and strawberries every day.

We’re building his outdoor enclosure this week, but I’ve been searching the forum and have a couple of questions that I can’t find clear answers to:

1. I see slight pyramiding. What can I do to help turn this around? He’ll be on grass / hay / SOME leafy greens diet and outside much of the day so hope that will help.

2. He’s only about 5” long measuring his shell. I believe he’s too young to be outside 24/7 - am I correct? Should I bring him in at night?

I live in New England so it gets cold; right now it’s great weather for him. We don’t have birds of prey here. His outdoor enclosure will be 8’x8’ for now while he’s still little. It will stand 3’ tell and will not be able to see through so should prevent anything like dogs getting in to him. He’ll have hides, and things to climb.

I just want to make sure he’ll be safe outside, and if not we have space to keep him inside!!

Thanks so much!
 

sibi

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First of all this salcata is way to dry. He's pyramided and he should be much larger for a two year old. This species need warm, humid temperatures year round. When salcatas are placed in areas where the temps are less than 80 degrees, they may survive, but they may not thrive. Temps less than 70 degrees, can put them in a catatonic state, or they may just hunker down, not eat or poop, and sleep a lot. This species are tropical and do not hibernate like other turtles. If left in freezing conditions for more than three days, they will freeze to death.

The first thing I would recommend is to give him warm soaks for 30 minutes every day, or at least 3 times a week. Second, I would look here to help you with ideas on how to build him an outside/inside enclosure that's well insulated for the cold winter there in New England. Remember that any heating you provide for the enclosure should have some way to provide humidity because heat will certainly dry him out. I use a humidifier for my enclosures. Third, I would seek experienced members here, like Tom, to give you more advice on his care. I'm so glad you have him now cause it looks like this lil guy has had a rough two years of life. May he have many good years with you.
 

santorozoo

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Thank you so much - I feel horrible for the baby.

I have never cared for a Sulcata, but I have 13 animals right now of 5 different species and I take a LOT of time and care to research ideal conditions and create them to the best of my ability.

No problem on the soaks - I will 100% do that. I planned on keeping him inside this winter as I’m nowhere near prepared enough to build him a heated outdoor enclosure this year - but I do have a garage that I can convert for next winter.

As far as an indoor enclosure.. at his size do you think 4’x8’ enclosed would be enough? I’d take him out for enrichment but make sure to keep humidity up as I know how important that is. My Russian is in an open table and I know that’s not OK for Sulcata.

Can I ask how you use a humidifier in the enclosure? Built right inside, or is it outside the enclosure but fed into the enclosure?
 

sibi

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Thank you so much - I feel horrible for the baby.

I have never cared for a Sulcata, but I have 13 animals right now of 5 different species and I take a LOT of time and care to research ideal conditions and create them to the best of my ability.

No problem on the soaks - I will 100% do that. I planned on keeping him inside this winter as I’m nowhere near prepared enough to build him a heated outdoor enclosure this year - but I do have a garage that I can convert for next winter.

As far as an indoor enclosure.. at his size do you think 4’x8’ enclosed would be enough? I’d take him out for enrichment but make sure to keep humidity up as I know how important that is. My Russian is in an open table and I know that’s not OK for Sulcata.

Can I ask how you use a humidifier in the enclosure? Built right inside, or is it outside the enclosure but fed into the enclosure?


I use a portable humidifier, like the ones you get for babies. I usually buy the largest one they have. Since I run it all the time during winter months, I go through one every year or two. Some members place buckets or pans of water on shelves and refill them when necessary. I just think a humidifier is easier. If you plan to build an enclosure, larger is always better. I don't know what the space you're going to place the tort in looks like, or what size room the enclosure will be in. So, it's hard to say how large you should build the enclosure. Just remember that the temps inside his enclosure should be about 80 to 82 degrees, and there should be about 80 % humidity especially during the winter months. I had an outside shed converted to an insulated enclosure. I called an electrician to run electric line with two dedicated outlets. That was necessary because in this 10' by 15' by 12' she'd, I was housing two big salcatas. Each had heating blankets, lamps, a heater, and humidifier. I had to split the electric appliances between the two outlets so that the breaker wouldn't trip. My tortoises have lived in them for more than 6 years now all year round. Of course, I live in northern Florida, but in the winter months, temps drop to the low 30's, sometimes even colder than that. Did you check out the section under Enclosures for ideas on how you can build one inside the house? If you find something you like, share it with me and ill try to help give you some tips.
 

Tom

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View attachment 277447View attachment 277448

Please see 2 attached pictures of the 2 year old Sulcata I’m adopting on Saturday.

He’s been raised for the past year in a 100 gallon aquarium and only fed kale and strawberries every day.

We’re building his outdoor enclosure this week, but I’ve been searching the forum and have a couple of questions that I can’t find clear answers to:

1. I see slight pyramiding. What can I do to help turn this around? He’ll be on grass / hay / SOME leafy greens diet and outside much of the day so hope that will help.

2. He’s only about 5” long measuring his shell. I believe he’s too young to be outside 24/7 - am I correct? Should I bring him in at night?

I live in New England so it gets cold; right now it’s great weather for him. We don’t have birds of prey here. His outdoor enclosure will be 8’x8’ for now while he’s still little. It will stand 3’ tell and will not be able to see through so should prevent anything like dogs getting in to him. He’ll have hides, and things to climb.

I just want to make sure he’ll be safe outside, and if not we have space to keep him inside!!

Thanks so much!
This one looks pretty good considering. That diet is horrible, but hopefully you'll get that corrected quickly.

Here is all the sulcata info in one place for you. Read these and then come back with all your questions:
https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/beginner-mistakes.45180/
https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/how-to-raise-a-healthy-sulcata-or-leopard-version-2-0.79895/
https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/for-those-who-have-a-young-sulcata.76744/

The best way to house one this size is to have a large outdoor enclosure for fair weather, and also have a large indoor closed chamber for night and poor weather. I'd go bigger than 8x8' feet outside if you can, and the walls only need to be about 12" tall for a small tortoise like this. 16-18" walls will hold a full size adult.

Changing the diet for the better has nothing to do with pyramiding. Likewise, being outside all day will often make the pyramiding worse. To improve the pyramiding, spending lots of time in a large closed chamber that is warm and humid is the best way to go. I don't think you need to worry about pyramiding with this one. Pyramiding is caused by growth in conditions that are too dry.

To house one outside 24/7, you need an insulated and temperature controlled night box. I usually don't do this with them until they are around 10". Like this: https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/another-night-box-thread.88966/
 

santorozoo

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This one looks pretty good considering. That diet is horrible, but hopefully you'll get that corrected quickly.

Here is all the sulcata info in one place for you. Read these and then come back with all your questions:
https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/beginner-mistakes.45180/
https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/how-to-raise-a-healthy-sulcata-or-leopard-version-2-0.79895/
https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/for-those-who-have-a-young-sulcata.76744/

The best way to house one this size is to have a large outdoor enclosure for fair weather, and also have a large indoor closed chamber for night and poor weather. I'd go bigger than 8x8' feet outside if you can, and the walls only need to be about 12" tall for a small tortoise like this. 16-18" walls will hold a full size adult.

Changing the diet for the better has nothing to do with pyramiding. Likewise, being outside all day will often make the pyramiding worse. To improve the pyramiding, spending lots of time in a large closed chamber that is warm and humid is the best way to go. I don't think you need to worry about pyramiding with this one. Pyramiding is caused by growth in conditions that are too dry.

To house one outside 24/7, you need an insulated and temperature controlled night box. I usually don't do this with them until they are around 10". Like this: https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/another-night-box-thread.88966/

Thanks, Tom!!!

I can definitely go bigger than 8x8 but I was worried since he’s only 5” that would be too much!

I have read all of the new sulcata owner info already. :) It’s important to me to create as ideal an environment as possible. I’ve already ordered the recommended seeds to plant!!

That said - instead of a closed chamber, would this work? Dedicate a whole room to him. Have a UVB lamp inside for days he can’t get outside (too cold, etc.) and heat ambient room temp to 80. Block off a large section of the room (1/2?) and put a “roof” and drape with plastic and a humidifier to monitor humidity and keep at 90+%?

That way I wouldn’t have to build as huge of an enclosure and he’d still get roaming space? He’s in that awkward not-big-not-small size so I’d hate to put him in an indoor enclosure completely.

Thoughts?? :)
 

Ray--Opo

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Welcome and thanks for rescuing him.
No more strawberries or fruit of any kind.
And kale isn't a good staple either. Kale along with other greens that are high in oxalates can create gallbladder stones. They can be fed but in moderation.
You are probably going to have to give some tough love on changing his diet. Dont give in they won't stave.
Maybe a probiotic like Proviable to help get his digestive system healthy again. Someone chime in if I am getting over my ski's.
 

santorozoo

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Welcome and thanks for rescuing him.
No more strawberries or fruit of any kind.
And kale isn't a good staple either. Kale along with other greens that are high in oxalates can create gallbladder stones. They can be fed but in moderation.
You are probably going to have to give some tough love on changing his diet. Dont give in they won't stave.
Maybe a probiotic like Proviable to help get his digestive system healthy again. Someone chime in if I am getting over my ski's.

I had to tough love my last tort when I got him, too! They won’t starve themselves but hopefully he won’t take too long to switch over. :)
 

sibi

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Awesome, thanks!

Was the electrician expensive?
Sorry it took so long to get back to you. Got busy and distracted. Well, the electrician cost me about $1,000 to run a line 4 feet underground for about 40 feet from the main house. If you have an outside enclosure, build it close to the house. Don't play with outdoor electric extensions. It's not worth the risks of electrocution or fire. I bought Kane blankets which are top of the line as heating blankets go. But, there are other good blankets you can purchase too. Also, Tom recommends radiant heat lamps which are also great for the upper extremities. Check out some of his ideas for reasonable building materials.
 

sibi

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Welcome and thanks for rescuing him.
No more strawberries or fruit of any kind.
And kale isn't a good staple either. Kale along with other greens that are high in oxalates can create gallbladder stones. They can be fed but in moderation.
You are probably going to have to give some tough love on changing his diet. Dont give in they won't stave.
Maybe a probiotic like Proviable to help get his digestive system healthy again. Someone chime in if I am getting over my ski's.

The only proper diet for torts is to vasely increase the amount of grass in their diets. Hay can be used, but with younger tortoises, hay is a hard sell. During winter months when fresh grass is scarce or not available, I use Timothy grass or orchard grass. With younger torts, I soak it in hot water and drain it. They love it. Remember, 70 % of their diet should be grass and weeds. Everything else should be sparingly given. Do that and your tortoise will be healthier.
 

santorozoo

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The only proper diet for torts is to vasely increase the amount of grass in their diets. Hay can be used, but with younger tortoises, hay is a hard sell. During winter months when fresh grass is scarce or not available, I use Timothy grass or orchard grass. With younger torts, I soak it in hot water and drain it. They love it. Remember, 70 % of their diet should be grass and weeds. Everything else should be sparingly given. Do that and your tortoise will be healthier.

Thanks!

I’ve got diet all set I think - I’m more concerned with enclosure at this point. :)
 

santorozoo

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Sorry it took so long to get back to you. Got busy and distracted. Well, the electrician cost me about $1,000 to run a line 4 feet underground for about 40 feet from the main house. If you have an outside enclosure, build it close to the house. Don't play with outdoor electric extensions. It's not worth the risks of electrocution or fire. I bought Kane blankets which are top of the line as heating blankets go. But, there are other good blankets you can purchase too. Also, Tom recommends radiant heat lamps which are also great for the upper extremities. Check out some of his ideas for reasonable building materials.

Thanks. Yikes that’s a bit out of my budget just for electricity right now!! But I’m looking at going right up against the house so maybe I’ll be looking at a lot less!!

Sounds like he’ll need to be indoors this winter anyway, so it’s a problem for next year when he’s a little bigger!! [emoji23]
 

sibi

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Thanks. Yikes that’s a bit out of my budget just for electricity right now!! But I’m looking at going right up against the house so maybe I’ll be looking at a lot less!!

Sounds like he’ll need to be indoors this winter anyway, so it’s a problem for next year when he’s a little bigger!!
emoji23.png

Well, maybe you have a friend that knows how to put in dedicated outlets. It's not just electricity, it's the necessary stuff that will providethe temps your tortoise needs to survive the winters. If he's small enough that a hide box could house him inside your house, then that's what you should do. But, as he grows, and he will, you'll need to come up with a solution for heating year round. Maybe Tom has some ideas that will help. But living in a northern state where temps are cold 9 months out of the year for this species, maybe adopting him out to a warmer climate could be an option.
 

santorozoo

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Well, maybe you have a friend that knows how to put in dedicated outlets. It's not just electricity, it's the necessary stuff that will providethe temps your tortoise needs to survive the winters. If he's small enough that a hide box could house him inside your house, then that's what you should do. But, as he grows, and he will, you'll need to come up with a solution for heating year round. Maybe Tom has some ideas that will help. But living in a northern state where temps are cold 9 months out of the year for this species, maybe adopting him out to a warmer climate could be an option.

Next winter I can definitely set up a year round outdoor setup for him without a problem - he’s too small to be outside this winter anyway he’s only 5”.

Electricity is the problem for me - that’s what I meant by affording $1,000 just in electricity. I’ve already priced out options for what I’m going to use for a “shed” for him as well as fully insulating it, etc. but didn’t get quotes from an electrician.

I appreciate your concern for this lil guy but trust me, he will be very well cared for with me and in an as close to ideal environment as possible. I have multiple different species of animals I care for and I always do my research on creating ideal husbandry. :)
 

Blackdog1714

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Yellow Jacket 2991 10/3 Extra Heavy-Duty 20-Amp Premium SJTW Contractor Extension Cord with Lighted T-Blade Plug, 50-Foot All Copper Wire Extension Cord, 20 Amps, 125 Volts, 2500 Watts.

It is available on Amazon for $80. For short term this would work just please read the boxes/instructions and add the total amps together for what you are using. Also make sure you use a 20 AMP outlet to plug into or it will trip constantly. Obviously running a trench is the best option, but I don't know about you I am independently wealthy or even moderately. ;)
 

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