Agrionemys or Testudo?

[Shakudo]

Hi everybody,

I am a bit confused.
I read somewhere that Agrionemys is now widely accepted the genus for Russian tortoises.
I only now them by Testudo.


I read on wikipedia that there are morphological differences which causes them to have their own seperate genus.

Also, I have read that Testudo H. is still the main name... so...
Are they synonyms?
Or is one the established version?

Curious to know....

Take care,

Joey

 

[tortadise]

This happens quite often. New scientist/biological researchers will reevaluate taxa, and the names changes all the time.

 

[Yvonne G]

I think right now its in flux. It is in the process of morphing over from Testudo to Agrionemys. Eventually everyone will get used to the idea and it will be agrionemys. And by then some scientist will decide that it should be called something else.

 

[Shakudo]

Thank you people!

 

[Iochroma]

Wow, the molecular genetics papers I have been reading clearly show horsfieldi in Testudo and most closely akin to hermanni. If the two were considered distict enough to be separated from Testudo, then a new genus would have to be erected, as hermanni is the older taxa. Either way, "Agrionemys" does not survive. The main proponents of the separation are Russian, and not widely accepted. Even Chinese zoologists have switched to the use of T. horsfieldi.
See van der Kuyl, et al 2002, Parham et al 2006, and Fritz, et al 2009.
Lumpers unite!

 

[peasinapod]

Wow, the molecular genetics papers I have been reading clearly show horsfieldi in Testudo and most closely akin to hermanni. If the two were considered distict enough to be separated from Testudo, then a new genus would have to be erected, as hermanni is the older taxa. Either way, "Agrionemys" does not survive. The main proponents of the separation are Russian, and not widely accepted. Even Chinese zoologists have switched to the use of T. horsfieldi.
See van der Kuyl, et al 2002, Parham et al 2006, and Fritz, et al 2009.
Lumpers unite!

Didn't they show that there are two main groups inside Testudo? One containing greeks and marginateds and the other containing hermann's and russians. (and kleinmanni? I am not sure where they put the egyptians)

 

[Iochroma]

The two clear clades are T. marginata and kleinmanni, and the graeca swarm. It gets messy about whether to include Indotestudo and Malacochersus within the greater Testudo idea.

 

[tortadise]

Didn't they show that there are two main groups inside Testudo? One containing greeks and marginateds and the other containing hermann's and russians. (and kleinmanni? I am not sure where they put the egyptians)

Are you referring to the document of classifying into "euroteatudo" and "testudo"? I recall seeing a paper on this not long ago. It kept marginata French and Spanish greaca and hermanni hermanni in eurotestudo and the others in testudo.

 

[Iochroma]

I did read that paper; being an avowed "lumper", I hope that idea fades away.

 

[peasinapod]

Are you referring to the document of classifying into "euroteatudo" and "testudo"? I recall seeing a paper on this not long ago. It kept marginata French and Spanish greaca and hermanni hermanni in eurotestudo and the others in testudo.

I don't believe it was about the eurotestudo and testudo debate. If I remember correctly it was just about whih species were more closely related in the testudo order. Just by looks you wouldn't say that hermann's are closer related to russians than to greeks!

I may remember wrong though, as it has been few months at least since I read it.