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albogulare vs cruentatum?

Discussion in 'Water turtles' started by CDBJJ, Mar 16, 2019.

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  1. CDBJJ

    CDBJJ Member

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    Do you think this cruentatum female has some albogulare blood in her? I’ve read that a curve in the hinge tells the difference? And more distinct keels also. What do you all think 09E110D2-1EEA-41EB-B409-959D48EF643F.jpeg 50BA13DD-9472-4314-9DD7-0F41633E9BE1.jpeg
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  2. CDBJJ

    CDBJJ Member

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    I think she looks a lot different and acts different a little different as well. Than my two cruentatum.
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  3. Pastel Tortie

    Pastel Tortie Well-Known Member Platinum Tortoise Club Tortoise Club

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    I don't have experience with either of those species, but I know @cdmay does.
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  4. cdmay

    cdmay Well-Known Member 10 Year Member!

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    The size and upturned plastron seam say albogulare. Think of a smile shaped seam.
    Albogulare tend to have higher domed shells and slightly more pronounced dorsal keels as well. Their faces do have some red or orange colors but not like the cruentatum that are currently in the United States.
    Adult female albogulare can be huge and they are much more terrestrial than other mud turtles.

    One thing to keep in mind regarding cruentatum though...in this country (the USA) the vast majority of cruentatum imported in the past few decades have come from Guatemala and thus are fairly uniform in appearance.
    But red-cheek mud turtles (cruentatum) occur from mid Mexico, out the Yucatán peninsula, throughout Guatemala and southward. They are highly variable in shape, size and color. Some populations have very well defined dorsal keels and speckled faces. Not far away other populations have smoothly domed shells and striped faces.
    It’s confusing but the lower plastron hinge is usually straight or flat in shape.

    Some photos of her face would be helpful.
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  5. CDBJJ

    CDBJJ Member

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    54B055A6-0BDB-4970-A642-DB4B27E53EDA.jpeg DE23DFB7-B085-4A58-BDB0-99ED2E1A5818.jpeg 2821C872-6C92-4ED6-BEA9-170DCFE3C9A1.jpeg Thank you for the info, here’s some more photos
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  6. cdmay

    cdmay Well-Known Member 10 Year Member!

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    Nice animal. Hard to say from her face.
    Here is a cool resource....go to inaturalist.org
    Once you access that site, enter Kinosternon scorpioides cruentatum in the species box and click VIEW.
    You will then find a bunch of photos of wild specimens, click on VIEW OBSERVATION and the exact GPS coordinates of the animal in the photo will appear along with the date and time of the observation. Trust me, the variation is neat stuff!
  7. CDBJJ

    CDBJJ Member

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    1C180B38-C724-4915-B3DE-83232D76F0BB.jpeg 8368D564-1934-4484-8630-C87700661A62.jpeg D57832BC-7C11-4A6D-A259-D255C7CF5610.jpeg This is my other female. I Notice the slight differences.s Pretty interesting stuff.
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  8. CDBJJ

    CDBJJ Member

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    Awesome I will check that out right now, thanks again!
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  9. cdmay

    cdmay Well-Known Member 10 Year Member!

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    That second animal is cruentatum all the way.
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  10. CDBJJ

    CDBJJ Member

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    I thought so too. But I think the bigger female is probably full albo, after looking at that site and comparing the two species. Interesting..
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  11. cdmay

    cdmay Well-Known Member 10 Year Member!

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    Yep, my thoughts as well.
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  12. cdmay

    cdmay Well-Known Member 10 Year Member!

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    Both cruentatum and albigulare are nice animals. But cruentatum is a good bit smaller, has more color (usually) and is more readily available for U.S. hobbyists.
    Still, captive hatched and raised albigulare, that is known as the white-throated mud turtle btw, can be gorgeous turtles. They are tough, easy to keep and responsive.

    One question: how or where did you obtain the ones you have now?
    Local pet or aquarium shop? Online?
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  13. CDBJJ

    CDBJJ Member

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    Got her online sent u a pm
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  14. CDBJJ

    CDBJJ Member

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    093B73D4-1042-47B3-8DAA-9B2EF2D03368.jpeg D540791F-A216-48B7-8B76-EF14D0CBD5C1.jpeg E33EC435-89BA-4DBA-B9F2-ECFBC54C1B45.png AD21F930-4A5E-4195-92A6-54D53F8CF66F.jpeg Check this guy out, This is a young male red cheek I got back in September 2017. He came from underground reptiles. I’m pretty sure he’s cruentatum
  15. cdmay

    cdmay Well-Known Member 10 Year Member!

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  16. Moozillion

    Moozillion Well-Known Member 5 Year Member Platinum Tortoise Club

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    Beautiful!!!
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