Aldabra enclosures

[Dustin]

I do this for that very reason. I usually put just a few original pieces into the soaking tub with the LS for flavor and smell, and they eat the LS better when I do this.

Our Aldabras and our younger Galapagos have never eaten the original formula, not even one pellet. They are addicted to the LS though. They can easily smell it from 100 feet away and they perk up and move as fast as possible to it. If the pellets spill out onto the grass they eat the grass that they touched and then they eat the LS flavored dirt underneath that.
I can't get our radiateds to transition to the LS though, they were started on the original formula before we got them.

So maybe the trick is just not giving them the original formula until they have become addicted to LS.

 

[Tom]

Our Aldabras and our younger Galapagos have never eaten the original formula, not even one pellet. They are addicted to the LS though. They can easily smell it from 100 feet away and they perk up and move as fast as possible to it. If the pellets spill out onto the grass they eat the grass that they touched and then they eat the LS flavored dirt underneath that.
I can't get our radiateds to transition to the LS though, they were started on the original formula before we got them.

So maybe the trick is just not giving them the original formula until they have become addicted to LS.

I'll have to try that on my next set of babies. I've always introduced the LS with a little 5M21 in it on the assumption that the tortoises wouldn't like the LS plain and wouldn't want to eat it without "enhancement" of some sort. Clearly an incorrect assumption on my part.

 

[incognet]

I'm glad you posted this info. Dietary mistakes are the main reason why these guys get orthopedic problems as they grow. Your diet is far too rich. I suspect small enclosures also play a part.

-Mazuri should only be offered once a week at most, and my island giant mentor suggests 5M21 not be offered to the giants at all.
-Grape leaves are great once or twice a week.
-Mulberry leaves are great once or twice a week.
-Opuntia once or twice. week.
-I've never fed lilac, but if its safe, that is good for variety.
-The food toppers and small amounts of grocery store greens sound good.
-What I am not seeing, and what should be the majority of the diet is weeds and grasses. The bulk of what these tortoises should be eating daily is grass, with all these other things we've been talking about making up 10-20% for some variety. Your baby is too small for dry hay, but you can start soaking horse hay pellets and mixing that in with whatever else you are feeding each day. Grass is easy to grow where you are this time of year. Let the baby graze on its own in a safe pen, or cut handfuls, chop it into short pieces no more than an inch or two for a baby, and mix with everything else. Once they reach 10-12 inches, I start cutting up orchard grass hay into short pieces, soaking it, and mixing that in with all the other foods.

Some of the nicest looking, smoothest, and healthiest Galapagos tortoises and Aldabras are grown outdoors in warm humid climates eating only grasses and weeds in a large pasture.

That website about the calcium is all wrong. Will @Kapidolo Farms has debunked this old myth several times here. Tortoise bladder stones are a by product of protein digestion and they tend to form with dehydration and I suspect a lack of exercise due to small enclosures to be a contributing factor in why the urates are not passed on their own. They are NOT caused by or comprised of calcium. It takes a tremendous amount of calcium to grow from a 50 gram hatchling into a 500 behemoth. A small amount of calcium supplementation a couple of times per week is cheap insurance and cannot do any harm.

Soak water should be in the neighborhood of 85-95. 74 is too cold. Keep that water warm.

I've learned a lot about keeping the island giants in recent years from some very knowledgable people. I hope this info helps you raise yours. Feel free to question any of this. Let's discuss any of it.

P.S. More pics of your gorgeous little baby please.

That makes 2 of us... thank you. We don't have the best hay cubes available locally, so I bought 1lb of Kaytee brand Timothy blend as stopgap until larger quality from Small Pet Select arrives. They've been our preferred supplier of rabbit hay for several years. Thankfully, Olive is not a picky eater; she has finished the majority of rehydrated cube at every meal.

I will continue looking for safe plants near my house... but the local biome is suffering from extended heat wave and I don't see as much diversity in pasture. What's present is often blighted.

We decided to keep giving her a small quantity of leaves (Mulberry, grape, lilac) on days that fresh weeds or living herbs are unavailable. The quantity of Opuntia has been reduced, but it's still offered everyday (for the time being). We'll reconsider daily feedings of this if her stool becomes watery.

Here's the new feeding schedule...


EVERYDAY:

• Timothy hay cubes (~70% of diet)
• Store greens (1/day; small portion)
• Opuntia cactus (~2" long strip)
• 2+ mulberry leaves (seasonal)
• 1-2 grape leaves (seasonal)
• 1-2 lilac leaves (seasonal)

SUNDAY:

• 6+ Mazuri LS pellets (moistened)
• Rep-Cal Herptivite (light sprinkling)
• Rehydrated apple & cuttlebone (?)

MON/WED/FRI:

• Rep-Cal Calcium + D3 (light sprinkling)
• Zoo Med flower topper (light sprinkling)

TUE/THU/SAT:

• "Food Fixer" topper (sprinkling)

I also increased the initial soak temperature to 94F. Olive doesn't seem to mind (based on toilet habits). She was less enthusiastic about our drive to herps-vet on THU.

Doctor D. spent nearly 30 minutes with Olive, and only had praise. We decided against removing the painted number (from breeder/importer) on her carapace. None of us are comfortable with using a solvent (like acetone), and fear that it would do more harm than good.

Olive weighs 1.8lb according to vet's scale. I'll get a more accurate reading this weekend. She's much easier to handle or photograph than my rabbit.

 

[Tom]

That makes 2 of us... thank you. We don't have the best hay cubes available locally, so I bought 1lb of Kaytee brand Timothy blend as stopgap until larger quality from Small Pet Select arrives. They've been our preferred supplier of rabbit hay for several years. Thankfully, Olive is not a picky eater; she has finished the majority of rehydrated cube at every meal.

I will continue looking for safe plants near my house... but the local biome is suffering from extended heat wave and I don't see as much diversity in pasture. What's present is often blighted.

We decided to keep giving her a small quantity of leaves (Mulberry, grape, lilac) on days that fresh weeds or living herbs are unavailable. The quantity of Opuntia has been reduced, but it's still offered everyday (for the time being). We'll reconsider daily feedings of this if her stool becomes watery.

Here's the new feeding schedule...


EVERYDAY:

• Timothy hay cubes (~70% of diet)
• Store greens (1/day; small portion)
• Opuntia cactus (~2" long strip)
• 2+ mulberry leaves (seasonal)
• 1-2 grape leaves (seasonal)
• 1-2 lilac leaves (seasonal)

SUNDAY:

• 6+ Mazuri LS pellets (moistened)
• Rep-Cal Herptivite (light sprinkling)
• Rehydrated apple & cuttlebone (?)

MON/WED/FRI:

• Rep-Cal Calcium + D3 (light sprinkling)
• Zoo Med flower topper (light sprinkling)

TUE/THU/SAT:

• "Food Fixer" topper (sprinkling)

I also increased the initial soak temperature to 94F. Olive doesn't seem to mind (based on toilet habits). She was less enthusiastic about our drive to herps-vet on THU.

Doctor D. spent nearly 30 minutes with Olive, and only had praise. We decided against removing the painted number (from breeder/importer) on her carapace. None of us are comfortable with using a solvent (like acetone), and fear that it would do more harm than good.

Olive weighs 1.8lb according to vet's scale. I'll get a more accurate reading this weekend. She's much easier to handle or photograph than my rabbit.

All looks pretty good. The only change I would suggest is to do your Herptivite on a greens day. Mazuri is "balanced" nutrition. Adding powdered supplements to it upsets that balance. I feed Mazuri by itself, or mixed with grocery store greens or soaked hay, but I don't add calcium or vitamins on those days. This is admittedly not a big deal either way. You are not going to see any nutritional deficiencies with what you are feeding.

Thank you for the pictures!

 

[incognet]

All looks pretty good. The only change I would suggest is to do your Herptivite on a greens day. Mazuri is "balanced" nutrition. Adding powdered supplements to it upsets that balance. I feed Mazuri by itself, or mixed with grocery store greens or soaked hay, but I don't add calcium or vitamins on those days. This is admittedly not a big deal either way. You are not going to see any nutritional deficiencies with what you are feeding.

Thank you for the pictures!

I took your advice and moved Herptivite to Saturday. The diet agrees with Olive... she weighed 960 grams as of last Thursday. We all enjoy watching her eat.

 

[Tom]

I took your advice and moved Herptivite to Saturday. The diet agrees with Olive... she weighed 960 grams as of last Thursday. We all enjoy watching her eat.

That's great. Have you started doing the calculations in your head for how many grams per day she is gaining? Its astounding. At some point it will reach and exceed a pound of growth per month. That's 454 grams of new tortoise cells that didn't exist the month before... From eating grass and weeds... Let that sink in a minute...

I have a complaint about your post: There was no picture with it. If you are going to keep a super cool species and grow it all healthy and smooth and stuff, I really think a picture per post should be required. I'm just sayin'...

 

[incognet]

That's great. Have you started doing the calculations in your head for how many grams per day she is gaining? Its astounding. At some point it will reach and exceed a pound of growth per month. That's 454 grams of new tortoise cells that didn't exist the month before... From eating grass and weeds... Let that sink in a minute...

I have a complaint about your post: There was no picture with it. If you are going to keep a super cool species and grow it all healthy and smooth and stuff, I really think a picture per post should be required. I'm just sayin'...

Hehe, that sounds fair to me. I'm not certain if the mechanical scale that we used for initial weigh-in is especially accurate <5 lb... but assuming that Olive weighed 1.8 lb (816 g) on 8/15 and 2.11 lb (957 g) on 8/22, she may have growth rate of ~20 g/day. However, it's also plausible that some apparent gain was just feces. More data points should help to answer this question.

We chose not to weigh her this afternoon, but did get some more pictures. Olive sploots almost immediately when placed in soaking tub, and sits on bamboo/sedge after being returned to her enclosure. She may be using those plants to scratch her underside.

 

[incognet]

UPDATE: We recently added some freshwater driftwood (probably sweetgum) to Olive's enclosure. I forgot to share these pictures last month. The raw driftwood piece was soaked in a vinegar solution overnight, then heat-sterilized in oven (45 minutes @ 275F). A few rough edges had to be sanded. The piece was top-heavy, and potentially dangerous, so we made a pedestal with old cutting board. It's held together by wood screws and buried under substrate. Olive seems to like her new decor.

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

Interesting, that on the photo it looks like it blocks access to UVB light. And basking lamp is far-far away from UVB tube. But as far as I remember, they were correctly positioned.

 

[Markw84]

Hehe, that sounds fair to me. I'm not certain if the mechanical scale that we used for initial weigh-in is especially accurate <5 lb... but assuming that Olive weighed 1.8 lb (816 g) on 8/15 and 2.11 lb (957 g) on 8/22, she may have growth rate of ~20 g/day. However, it's also plausible that some apparent gain was just feces. More data points should help to answer this question.

We chose not to weigh her this afternoon, but did get some more pictures. Olive sploots almost immediately when placed in soaking tub, and sits on bamboo/sedge after being returned to her enclosure. She may be using those plants to scratch her underside.

Your tortoise looks great. You are doing a great job with it.

FWIW - for our giant tortoises, I look for weight gains to average about 10g per day when they weigh around 2000g. By the time they are in the 5000g range that will double to 20g per day. At 10000g it will be more in the 30g per day range. It then tends to stay in the 30g - 40g per day level from 15kg on. Males once about 40kg can start growing at 50g-60g per day!

I must add - This is growth on natural pasture grazing in my area once they are about 2500g and above. No other feed offered.

 

[Dustin]

Your tortoise looks great. You are doing a great job with it.

FWIW - for our giant tortoises, I look for weight gains to average about 10g per day when they weigh around 2000g. By the time they are in the 5000g range that will double to 20g per day. At 10000g it will be more in the 30g per day range. It then tends to stay in the 30g - 40g per day level from 15kg on. Males once about 40kg can start growing at 50g-60g per day!

I must add - This is growth on natural pasture grazing in my area once they are about 2500g and above. No other feed offered.

Mark, have you analyzed weekly weight records for groups of Aldabras or are you basing these numbers on the the Galapagos data you have? It feels like they grow slower than Galapagos. We don't have good records for our group from the first three years we had them so I have nothing to back that up. We have a total of 22 weight datapoints for that entire time period. We have monthly records from 8/2021 to today though. Our experience may be a bit skewed too because we started them off outdoors from the day we got them then moved a few months later.

 

[incognet]

Interesting, that on the photo it looks like it blocks access to UVB light. And basking lamp is far-far away from UVB tube. But as far as I remember, they were correctly positioned.

Yeah, the photo does seem to distort certain features. I may have used .5x digital zoom (?) The driftwood partially blocks access on ~3" of UVB tube, but it's not an area which Olive routinely used. The unobstructed 21" of UVB tube includes basking & feeding area.

None of the light fixtures have been moved, and I check UV level (with Solarmeter) every few days. The warmest spot seems to be in-between UVB fixture and basking lamp (which are only a few inches apart). 🌡

 

[incognet]

Your tortoise looks great. You are doing a great job with it.

FWIW - for our giant tortoises, I look for weight gains to average about 10g per day when they weigh around 2000g. By the time they are in the 5000g range that will double to 20g per day. At 10000g it will be more in the 30g per day range. It then tends to stay in the 30g - 40g per day level from 15kg on. Males once about 40kg can start growing at 50g-60g per day!

I must add - This is growth on natural pasture grazing in my area once they are about 2500g and above. No other feed offered.

Thank you! We really dote on her. Olive weighed 1056g today, which is nearly 100g more than first accurate measurement we took on 8/22. 7g/day of growth wouldn't surprise me. She's a voracious little tort.

 

[Markw84]

Thank you! We really dote on her. Olive weighed 1056g today, which is nearly 100g more than first accurate measurement we took on 8/22. 7g/day of growth wouldn't surprise me. She's a voracious little tort.

@Dustin is correct - my figures are based on tracking over 100 Galapagos. However, it also applied to sulcatas I have tracked in the past for their first few years. I would think Aldabras would be similar based upon age and weight posts I have seen from those raising Aldabras. However, Dustin's observations carry a lot of weight with his experience with them directly.

 

[Dustin]

@Markw84 that is interesting the growth rate of young Galapagos and Sulcata are similar. Aldabra could very well grow at a similar rate for all I know. I don't have the data and my gut feeling is probably skewed by the last year or two of slow growth in our animals.

It would be great if @incognet could track the weight weekly for the first year or two with their animal.

The two charts below show years 1-2 with sporadic weight data. We only recorded weights once in year 3. The second chart shows years 4, 5 and 6 with weight data taken on the last sunday of every month +- one day. We started with our animals 9/2018 and have made the assumption that they were hatched sometime around 1/2018 to 3/2018.