An Unforeseen Threat to our California Desert Tortoises

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ZippyButter

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This article appears today on front page of LA Times (Sunday 05/11/08). I could not believe that the Army from and around Ft. Irwin, the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service and the Bureau of Land Management allegedly violating the Federal Endangered Species Act by moving, relocating these DTs to Mojave Desert, away from their natural and normal habitat near the Army's National Training Center ar Fort Irwin. You can check this at On latimes.com/tortoise. We should do something to prevent futher damages. If anyone know more infos about this, please share with the rest of us. Thanks.
 

jlyoncc1

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I am in NJ and actually heard something about this a few weeks ago.
 

Crazy1

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This is my personal feelings on this subject and I am rather emotional about it. I have tried to tone it down.
But in my opinion it is wrong, just plain wrong.

Yes it is true. They moved about 760 DT from around Ft. Irwin. This has been in the works for some time. And the CTTC and other environmental organizations have been fighting against the move. Law suits are being filed. Yes, these are an endangered species in the wild. Yes they were moved into areas that the wild DT populations have been found to be infected with RI, the area they were moved to have been know for off road vehicle traffic, closer to human populated area, drought and now the coyotes.
This is what was agreed upon “As mitigation”, the Army agreed to move the tortoises from the expansion area onto unoccupied public lands.” The move was conduted in March because that is when the DT are most active. They have just come out of hibernation and are looking for food, water and a mate. Soon after the deserts heat up and these lovely creatures go underground and are hard to locate so the move had to be done in March.

I like so many others here in CA feel this is a travisty. But we are talking about our Military and our national security. Both will out trump the poor DT. And even after they have moved 760 torts and had so many devistated so soon after the move they are still talking about moving another 1200. “In years to come, the Army plans to relocate an additional 1,200 tortoises from the western edge of the base to prevent them from being squashed by military equipment.” Have we learned nothing by this first move. I don’t say we leave them to get squashed, and I know they say the military must expand this training area. However there must be a better plan a better outcome for these translocated DT. But evidently when it comes to our military Endanged species do not really count.
 

Yvonne G

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Crazy1 said:
I don’t say we leave them to get squashed, and I know they say the military must expand this training area. However there must be a better plan a better outcome for these translocated DT. But evidently when it comes to our military Endanged species do not really count.

I don't understand why Mike Connor hasn't offered for the tortoises to be moved onto the Desert Tortoise Preserve. Isn't that why CTTC is buying land to form the preserve?

Yvonne
 

ZippyButter

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Crazy1 said:
This is my personal feelings on this subject and I am rather emotional about it. I have tried to tone it down.
But in my opinion it is wrong, just plain wrong.






Hi Robyn,

You don't have to hold back your anger. This is one of the many issues that our own government has done badly and never admit that they are wrong. You could write letters to our senators, governer, representatives, and others that we can think of to express our concern and disappointment of how these agencies have damaged our state endangered tortoises. May be we should contact other countries that believe strongly in protecting, nuturing and repopularizing the endangered species, to let them know that the U.S.A has committed this terrible act. We have sent many scientists, biologists, and other professionals all over the world to work and to try saving as many endangered animals as possible , and here we are, in our practically own backyard, our government does just the opposite. I'm sorry I don't have the addresses of those I've mentioned above, I have to search back at my own emails and perhaps to google some, unless someone in this forum have them ready for all of us here at TF.

Minh
 

purpod

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Perhaps letters to congressmen or representatives?
You can write an email to the Gov. by clicking on this link: http://gov.ca.gov/interact
Dunno if it will make a difference, but if enuf peeps bombard his office, you just never know...

purpod
 

Crazy1

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Minh, I have written letters to the Gov., my Senator and my state representatives. Like usual you get nothing back or you get a pat response that they received your letter. I was at our meeting early this month and a rep from the DT reserve gave a talk regarding the preserve. Yep, the very preserve Mike Conner is involved in. It seems they are using the land to preserve the torts that are there. They have people that are replanting native plants and setting up water catch areas as the drought has done so much damage with new plantings etc. The talk was informative about the preserve but she new little or nothing, or would not talk about the move. She did state she was fairly new here from Minnesota. The land they just acquired didn’t’ seem very large. Like I said they, the CTTC is involved. They are filing suit they are trying to stop the further removal of any DT. How successful they will be is questionable. Yes, I think we as a Turtle, Tortoise community need to be heard. I can’t even imagine the amount of acreage that would be needed for 1200 DT. But as the paper stated the cost of moving the 760 they moved was, I believe 8.7 billion dollars.

Each person needs to find the assembly person in their district and write to them, their Senator and the Gov. Plus contact your local CTTC and Rescue Groups and ask what they are doing and how you can get involved.
Since I have had my foster DT I have found them such sweet loving social creatures it makes me cry just thinking of the devastation this move has made on them and their population.
 

Yvonne G

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Here's a link to a petition on this subject. When you get to the end, after following all the directions, and hit "send" it looks like nothing happens, but it does go, and a few minutes after I hit "send" and nothing happened, I received an acknowledgement email thanking me for signing the petition.

Yvonne

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/stoptortoisetranslocation
 

ZippyButter

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Robyn,

You are right on it. I've received two e-mails from two congresswomen from our state (on different issues, not about the tortoises), and I don't feel that they would do anything more to improve thing for the benefit of the general population. For this subject, I agree with you also, we, as turtles and tortoises lovers, should write to those in offices and let our voices being heard. Just mention to them that we have the ballots in our hands for the next election.

Also, thank you Yvonne for the site. I've signed and sent the sample letter to many of my friends.

Minh
 

old4x4

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So we should let them get burned, blown up, be poisoned, get run over by tanks and other vehicles?...
Apparently I don't get it. I think the relocation beats the alternatives with a stick. At least the poor things will have a fighting chance at survival!
 

Yvonne G

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old4x4 said:
So we should let them get burned, blown up, be poisoned, get run over by tanks and other vehicles?...
Apparently I don't get it. I think the relocation beats the alternatives with a stick. At least the poor things will have a fighting chance at survival!

No, they are trying to get the powers-that-be to find another solution.

Yvonne
 

ZippyButter

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Hi old4x4,

I'm sorry I have to disagree with you. The California Desert Tortoises are here first, like American Indians. We human have destroyed so many things on this earth for our own conveniences. Our own federal government has made the law to protect this special species, and now other agencies turn around and do the unthinkable act toward them. Relocation is never good, just look at our own species, lives are effected both physically and emotionally. Especially when WARS are the main reason. The Armny needs to exercise, I don't blame them however they could find another place to expand or move themselves somewhere else. These tortoises and their habitat have been existing here for many, many years, and I believe if we are not carefull, our children, grand children and future generation might not see them anymore in the wild. What a major lost this would be!


Minh
 

Jacqui

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ZippyButter said:
The Armny needs to exercise, I don't blame them however they could find another place to expand or move themselves somewhere else.


Minh

Okay don't shoot me here, this is simply playing the role of devil's advocate and asking this question. Does not mean this is what I feel or think, ok?

Where is there that the military could go to, that would not impact native species and people?
 

ZippyButter

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Jacqui,

I think they should move to Crawford, Texas. Or Fort Chaffee, Arkansas, I don't know the armmy still using this place for training exercise now or not but in 1975, this entire army base was one of places in the country providing housing for refugees from Vietnam war. Here in California, they could utilize a closed Aire Force base(I could not recall the name) in Orange County to store their equipments. Here is another idea, they should move to the empty farmlands (here in America) which are owned by many extremely wealthy individuals and companies who are taking advantage of the farmland bill by growing NOTHING on their land but still receive PAYMENT from our government every year. These come from your mine, and every hard-working americans taxe dollars.

I don't want to divert the attention to other subject, the priority is still the welfare of these Califonia DTs. So please everyone sign the petition and spread the words to your families and friends, we still need more signatures.

Minh
 

Crazy1

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I do understand both sides of the issue. The Military needs land for its purposes-training, expanding etc. The DTs need this land to survive as they have for centuries. This is the dilemma.

old4x4 you raised the question should we just let them get “burned, blown up, be poisoned, get run over by tanks and other vehicles?” No of course not.
Their must be other alternatives. They had several set up alternatives, here is a listing of some Documents that list some of those that you all may be interested in reading. http://www.fortirwinlandexpansion.com/Documents.htm
http://www.fortirwinlandexpansion.com/Management of Army Acquired Mitigations Lands by BLM.pdf

I even went to this website http://www.deserttortoise.gov/dtsm/ and requested permission to access the data. I am awaiting a reply.

Then I found this, it is the Sixty day notice of intent to sue for violations of section 7 and 9 the Endangered Species Act dated March 17, 2008 http://www.biologicaldiversity.org/...e/pdfs/60-day-notice-translocation-issues.pdf

and this: Environmentalists intend to sue over Fort Irwin's tortoise-relocation plan
http://www.pe.com/localnews/sbcounty/stories/PE_News_Local_D_tortoises18.3b82a37.html

In closing I feel we must remember these are a protected threatened and/or endangered species. There are laws that govern what happens if any one takes them, which is defined as; harass, harm, pursue, hunt, shoot, wound, kill, trap, capture, or collect or to attempt to engage in any such conduct.
This should include; All persons whether individual, groups, clubs or The Department of Defense, (DOD), fish and wildlife or Bureau of Land Management or our elected officials.
These peoples should be working to immediately halt further destruction of this species through "translocation" as well as the critical (and legally protected) habitats in which they survive.

”The Department of Defense, nor any agency should be immune to the laws created to protect sensitive-and sometimes endangered species of plants and animals.”
 

ZippyButter

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Robyn,

I was on some of the sites that you've listed above this past weekend, but forgot to write the addresses down, so I don't have them available to answer other posters. Thank you for sharing those with us here, I will bookmark them for future references.

Minh
 

purpod

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Heya Robyn!

It's well researched information & critical thinking such as your last reply which makes the world a better place ~ Easy to see why you have such a high reputation here; we are all blessed to have you on the side of the torts! Bravo!

A Purpod Peep :)
 

Crazy1

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Minh and purpod thank you for your kind words.
Just an quick update to my request from http://www.deserttortoise.gov/dtsm/ for permission to long onto the site. Here is the response I recieved this afternoon, which was no surprize.

"Hi Robyn,
The website is for sharing data amongst the many researchers and federal and state agencies. It is not, nor ever will be, accessible to the general public. Sorry.
If you have any questions I may be able to answer them.
AW"
 
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