This is so frustrating, heart breaking, sad....
http://www.turtlesurvival.org/compo...cid=d2daebf293&mc_eid=72e6faa68f#.W9S_inpKjOQ
http://www.turtlesurvival.org/compo...cid=d2daebf293&mc_eid=72e6faa68f#.W9S_inpKjOQ
Another major radiated tortoise confiscation in Madagascar
- Thread starter Sterant
- Start date
Geeze...terrible..
Charleston, South Carolina – It's happened again. Only 6 months after more than 10,000 Radiated Tortoises (Astrochelys radiata) were seized in southwest Madagascar, we are heartbroken to announce the government of Madagascar has seized another mind-boggling 7,347 of the critically endangered animals from wildlife traffickers. Packed like sardines, the suffering animals were being held in a remote village only 70 km (43 mi) from the scene of the last crime...destined for the illicit international black-market trade.
Charleston, South Carolina – It's happened again. Only 6 months after more than 10,000 Radiated Tortoises (Astrochelys radiata) were seized in southwest Madagascar, we are heartbroken to announce the government of Madagascar has seized another mind-boggling 7,347 of the critically endangered animals from wildlife traffickers. Packed like sardines, the suffering animals were being held in a remote village only 70 km (43 mi) from the scene of the last crime...destined for the illicit international black-market trade.
"There is nothing more frightful than ignorance in action."--Goethe, 1826.
That is so heartbreaking. The photo is awful 
Hmmm.... Outright bans don't work. What a surprise!
Maybe we should look at making LEGAL REGULATED trade in captive bred radiata a hell of a lot easier so market demand can be met WITHOUT taking any of them from the wild ever again?
Maybe we should look at making LEGAL REGULATED trade in captive bred radiata a hell of a lot easier so market demand can be met WITHOUT taking any of them from the wild ever again?
So sad but I fear it will not stop until this species is wiped of the island for good so sad
Sorry to hear about this ... I worry about the healthy reintroduction of the torts into the wild.
Jamie
Jamie
While this sort of illegal poaching and smuggling is a terrible thing that needs to stop, this species is in no danger of extinction in the wild. Last estimates that I saw a few years ago pegged the current population at around 6.5 million of them in the wild. This is a huge number when compared to some other species. I doubt there are half that many pancake tortoises on the entire planet. Even sulcatas, the most common species in captivity here in the USA, don't have those kind of number in the wild. The population of wild sulcatas in Senegal was down to around 40. That's not a typo. Four zero. Forty. Tomas Diagne had reintroduced about 180 of them last I heard after years of painstaking work and vet testing. I'll bet there are far less than 6.5 million sulcatas in the whole world, even though it seems like there are so many here in the US alone.
The first population estimates done for radiatia were in the early 70s and they think there were around 12 million back then, so we've seen a terrible decline over the last 40+ years, but this should be no surprise given the human population growth and turmoil on the island. Frankly, it wouldn't have surprised me if there were far less left in the wild, given the circumstances.
Foe another comparison, take a look at Geochelone platynota. In 2002 they estimate a grand total of around 90 of them left in the wild. In 2010 they found ZERO. Extinction. All gone. In 1998 permits were granted to import 200 of them from captive breeding facilities in their native range. These 200 adapted very well to their new homes here in the USA and bred readily. Their babies did even better and bred even more. To date there are several thousand of them in the USA and more being produced annually. I made 50 this last breeding season. Efforts at reintroduction to the wild met with dismal failure in one area, and at least some success in another. Time will tell how well they do in that second area.
While I don't want to see thousands of tortoises of any species being poached and smuggled from the wild, the situation for the esteemed radiated tortoise is no where near dire. Not by any stretch of the imagination. Until "they" come up with a reasonable way for people to legally ship these animals, profit from them, and meet the market demand for them, this illegal poaching and smuggling will continue. This is stupid. It doesn't need to be this way and it shouldn't be this way. We have many successful models to draw from to formulate a workable policy that would help the species to grow and prosper, and remove all the incentive for illegal activities with the stroke of a pen. We are being led, regulated and controlled by idiots. Those idiots are the reason for wildlife trafficking problems.
The first population estimates done for radiatia were in the early 70s and they think there were around 12 million back then, so we've seen a terrible decline over the last 40+ years, but this should be no surprise given the human population growth and turmoil on the island. Frankly, it wouldn't have surprised me if there were far less left in the wild, given the circumstances.
Foe another comparison, take a look at Geochelone platynota. In 2002 they estimate a grand total of around 90 of them left in the wild. In 2010 they found ZERO. Extinction. All gone. In 1998 permits were granted to import 200 of them from captive breeding facilities in their native range. These 200 adapted very well to their new homes here in the USA and bred readily. Their babies did even better and bred even more. To date there are several thousand of them in the USA and more being produced annually. I made 50 this last breeding season. Efforts at reintroduction to the wild met with dismal failure in one area, and at least some success in another. Time will tell how well they do in that second area.
While I don't want to see thousands of tortoises of any species being poached and smuggled from the wild, the situation for the esteemed radiated tortoise is no where near dire. Not by any stretch of the imagination. Until "they" come up with a reasonable way for people to legally ship these animals, profit from them, and meet the market demand for them, this illegal poaching and smuggling will continue. This is stupid. It doesn't need to be this way and it shouldn't be this way. We have many successful models to draw from to formulate a workable policy that would help the species to grow and prosper, and remove all the incentive for illegal activities with the stroke of a pen. We are being led, regulated and controlled by idiots. Those idiots are the reason for wildlife trafficking problems.
Stoneman
Active Member
There are so many endangered species of tortoise, if we could get these into captive breeding programs in the United States, we could prevent many of them from going extinct. It would be a great program, much better than the over-regulated AZA.
is there anyway legally for TSA to bring some of them back to US?
they were all unregulated at one time , it didn't help then , why would it help now ? wood turtles are regulated in their natural range states , there are plenty of folks breeding them , they are still poached , larry triegel pled guilty to poaching $400,000 worth of them in 2011 ……. I saw a population study done in Michigan , the same spot , they captured 227 in 1995 , in I believe 2011 they caught like 25 ……….
To my mind the idea would not be to have them unregulated but rather to have regulated export of captive bread babies. The hope would be that this would give rise to an industry. Give the people a reasion to conserve the species and a leagal way to bring money to the island.
off memory , so i may be a bit off on year , but i read of 8.2 TONS of dried radiated tortoise meat being confiscated , 2010 would be my guess ...... they said the locals were getting $0.70 for an adult tortoise .......read a question posed onetime , is keeping an animal alive in captivity but extinct in the wild really much of an accomplishment ? reintroduction of turtles is more often than not a failure ...... the cleveland zoo has been reintroducing blanding's turtles in areas around me for i believe more than a decade , they do not import them , they are the offspring of wild turtles from the area that were confiscated years ago , and headstarted hatchlings from local wild collected eggs .... imo , the results are pretty poor in the more populated areas ........ i'd think using turtles or tortoises from out of the area would have too many downsides ........
I see your points. I still think a captive population to insure survival, was and hopefully attempt reinterduction at some point In the future when the time is right is very worth while. I fear if not for captive populations many turtles and tortoises would be wiped from the earth in short order never to be seen again. That would be even sadder then the current state of things.
I'm by far no expert and don't know if reinterduction will ever work but still think we would be remiss to not keep trying.
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kazjimmy
Active Member
Seizure and release. Again and again. Ppl just don’t realized what the real problem! You just CAN NOT protect these animals from their natural habitat. Don’t release them back to wild cuz they will 100% catch back by the local poor ppl over there.
Let these tortoise import become legal just like marihuana. Plz don’t give me that tortoise contain servals disease story. Let these beautiful tortoise become captive breed pet tortoise. One day I can buy a radiator tortoise for $100. My dream.
Let these tortoise import become legal just like marihuana. Plz don’t give me that tortoise contain servals disease story. Let these beautiful tortoise become captive breed pet tortoise. One day I can buy a radiator tortoise for $100. My dream.
best chance for that will be a poached tortoise ……… at one time you could buy a 20 year old N.A. wood turtle for $100-200 , I've seen them over the last 4-5yrs for $350 , if those were cbb turtles , they'd need somehow to have kept it at a cost of $10-$15 a year to break even ……… I've raised a few from hatchlings , they originally cost like $100-125 , over 12-15 yrs they've costed me thousands of dollars in upkeep , if I sold one for $2000 , i'm sure it'd be at a loss ……… a $0.70 poached/smuggled tortoise is more likely to be sold for $100 than a cbb one …….
kazjimmy
Active Member
Lol true. Tortoise business here in USA won’t make good money except few species. Fairly speaking radiator tortoise were easy to breed and raise. As I breed some other baby tortoise. I know the best growing period for juvenile tortoise was throw them to your back yard and leave them alone. They will be dead to thank you for not keep them into a indoor enclosure.
What I’m try to say is that ppl lives here raise tortoise as pet but these are in fact most sturdy animals in the planet. We offer way too much then they actually needed.
Guess who makes the most money out of tortoise business? I bet you have the answer.
Nobody said anything about "unregulated". We are talking about regulated, legal trade in CAPTiVE BRED animals. If demand could be met this way, there would be no need and no incentive to remove them from the wild.
And the failure of the re-intoduction program of your one local species is not an indicator that all such programs will fail, or that we shouldn't try. And even if the re-introduction program is failing, for whatever reason, how can breeding more of them in captivity be a bad thing?
