Another urate stool frequency?

[Cam]

Okay.
Our 7 year old recently acquired Greek "Calvin".

Relieves urates every morning and almost every evening.
Relieves stool about 5/7 days a week in the morning.
He eats morning and evening.

Radicchio, wheat grass, collard greens, dandylion greens at every meal.

We removed the endive we were feeding him. He gets Romaine lettuce a few times a week. We sprinkle the TNT on his salad every other day.

We soak him every other day...HOWEVER...since he keeps walking through his poo and is one nasty mess he is getting daily soaks as of the last week.

Is this normal...it seems too frequent from what I've read before.
What am i doing wrong?

Thanks!

 

[egyptiandan]

It is a bit to frequent for the urates, everything else is fine though.
The urates are from the diet, especially the collard greens and dandelion. Don't quit giving these 2 you just need to add some more variety to the diet.
The Romaine is a good start also green and red leaf lettuce, curly endive and escarole. Some of the baby greens salads at the grocery store are good, find the ones without spinach.
The more variety you can get this time of year the better.

Danny

 

[Cam]

Thank you for the diverse list!

You are right the stores are slim pickens these days...I can't even find butternut squash around here.
Can he have yams/sweet potatoes?
(My first choice is the local organic grocery.)

I found a list on tortoise food that said the collard greens are a bad food due to causing MBD and hypothyroidism, so I will eliminate that as well.

How about watercress, arugula, beet greens, carrot greens?

In lieu of grasses are hays that are rinsed off okay?
(not alfalfa of course)

 

[egyptiandan]

Can you find butternut squash frozen? Thats how I get mine.
Watercress, arugula and beet greens are fine in moderation. Carrot tops are a no.
Testudos aren't made for digesting grasses. So I would stick to fresh grass, but no hay.

Danny

 

[egyptiandan]

Can you find butternut squash frozen? Thats how I get mine.
Watercress, arugula and beet greens are fine in moderation. Carrot tops are a no.
Testudos aren't made for digesting grasses. So I would stick to fresh grass, but no hay.

Danny

 

[Crazy1]

Cam, I found soaking mine cause them to poo and urinate more frequently. When they dirty themselves I simply rinse quickly or wipe them instead of soaking them. I have heard Collard greens are bad but I find most foods fed in small infrequent quantities are OK. I give mine a little collard greens when I fix them for me.
I also use timothy, bermuda (my fav) or orchard hay which I grind (in a coffee grinder) and sprinkle it on their greens-mine don't really eat it otherwise. I also use Mazuri pellets soaked for 90 SECONDS then crumbled fine and sprinkled on their food.

Here is a good link for repalcement foods
Nutrient Analysis of Replacement Turtle and Tortoise Foods - Darrell M. Senneke
http://home.earthlink.net/~rednine/nutrient.htm

 

[cvalda]

he he, I think you mean... "I also use Mazuri pellets soaked for 90 SECONDS"!

 

[egyptiandan]

Robyn you really shouldn't give hay. It has silica in it and isn't tolerated by a greeks gut very well. It's fine for sulcatas and leopards, but not Testudos.

Danny

 

[Cam]

Can you find butternut squash frozen? Thats how I get mine.
Watercress, arugula and beet greens are fine in moderation. Carrot tops are a no.
Testudos aren't made for digesting grasses. So I would stick to fresh grass, but no hay.

Danny

I have actually never checked:shy:

Thank you for the information...
I started a tiny notebook to have in my purse with alll my 'Cliff Notes' on Calvins needs, so I can check it...the short term memory was just a phase for me

Big duh on my part, I hit the ice cream and that's about it in the freezer section...
oh how these little pets make us 'expand our horizons'

 

[Cam]

Cam, I found soaking mine cause them to poo and urinate more frequently. When they dirty themselves I simply rinse quickly or wipe them instead of soaking them. I have heard Collard greens are bad but I find most foods fed in small infrequent quantities are OK. I give mine a little collard greens when I fix them for me.
I also use timothy, bermuda (my fav) or orchard hay which I grind (in a coffee grinder) and sprinkle it on their greens-mine don't really eat it otherwise. I also use Mazuri pellets soaked for 90 minutes then crumbled fine and sprinkled on their food.

Here is a good link for repalcement foods
Nutrient Analysis of Replacement Turtle and Tortoise Foods - Darrell M. Senneke
http://home.earthlink.net/~rednine/nutrient.htm

Thank you! And great link

I found this link too...some of the infprmation seems a bit contradictory but I will need to print it out so I can see everything side by side to make a bit more sense of their deliniation of requirements.

http://www.turtlestuff.com/avoidthese.html

 

[Cam]

Robyn you really shouldn't give hay. It has silica in it and isn't tolerated by a greeks gut very well. It's fine for sulcatas and leopards, but not Testudos.

Danny

Is silica like a binding agent? Great information. Amazing how each species needs are so diverse...Equally amazing how blanket statements are made by pet shop folks about "all torts should eat..."

 

[egyptiandan]

Silica is a mineral in most grasses. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poaceae
It make grass very hard to digest unless you have the right gut to do the job.

Danny

 

[Cam]

Silica is a mineral in most grasses. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poaceae
It make grass very hard to digest unless you have the right gut to do the job.

Danny

Interesting link...the things we take for granted, the seemingly benign are not always as they appear
I have to start using the wikipedia more often...

 

[Cam]

RE: Another urate stool frequency?/UPDATE

Hi there again.

I just wanted to let you know we have started 'spot cleaning' his feet and plastron after he messes them up, and gone to soaking every other day.
We have also changed up his diet per suggestions more romain, fress grass (organic), moderated his radicchio intake, took out the collard greens and kale, less dandy greens, added butternut squash as a treat here and there as well and...
he is producing BM's about every 3 days and urates once a day

He still seems perky etc. Just less messy...thank you everyone!

 

[Crazy1]

he he, I think you mean... "I also use Mazuri pellets soaked for 90 SECONDS"!

Sorry don't know How I missed this thread-So I am playing catch-up.

Ok, Kelly thanks I fixed it YES 90 SECONDS. Can you just imagine what it would be like after 90 minutes, Yuck.

Cam I am glad his new diet has helped and he is doing well.

Danny thanks for the info on the hay. I've now scratched that off my list for the Testudos.
But can you explain your statement "Testudos aren't made for digesting grasses. So I would stick to fresh grass, but no hay"
OK, so does this mean no timothy, orchard, Bermuda from Petco ie; dried. But is it OK to feed them clipped fresh Tall Fescue from my lawn (no fertilizer or pesticides used)?

 

[TestudoGeek]

I found a list on tortoise food that said the collard greens are a bad food due to causing MBD and hypothyroidism

hum... i've never heard of this. to my knowledge collard greens were OK. why would they cause MBD? are they high on oxalic acid?

 

[Cam]

This is the list I was referring to:
http://www.turtlestuff.com/avoidthese.html

They are highlighted as being high on Oxalic Acid. But if '0' is okay then they are only at '.45' which seems a negligable amount unless that is all the tort is being fed?

what do you all think of the data?

 

[TestudoGeek]

They are highlighted as being high on Oxalic Acid. But if '0' is okay then they are only at '.45' which seems a negligable amount unless that is all the tort is being fed?

indeed, I think the key is variety. collard greens are not that high on Oxalic Acid and have very good calcium & fiber values, so my bet is to feed them along with various weeds & other "safe" greens.

 

[egyptiandan]

Yes fresh grass is the way to go Robyn. Dried grasses just concentrates everything.
Collard greens and for that matter anything that has an oxalic acid content is fine to feed once in a while, just not on a regular basis.

Danny