5 Year Member
- Dec 31, 2015
- Location (City and/or State)
Seconds after I type this, Mark1 will come along and argue each point both this and tell you how great injectable Baytril is. He and I disagree on this point, and I choose to take the word of the vets I work with that treat tortoises regularly, and my own observations of the damage this drug does.
i don't want to "hijack" a post , so here's my in 2 seconds , 2 cents reply .......... i'm more than willing to listen to anyone , i have an open mind , i'm just picky as to what i let in , facts and logic are certainly welcome .....
Tom , from my perspective all antibiotics are GREAT , i've raised a lot of animals , not to mention i would have been dead before i was 10 without them ...... antibiotics have substantially raised the life expectancy of us and every other animal on this planet , not reduced it , that is a fact ............. no vet with a clue does not recognize what a GREAT developement baytril was to veterinary medicine ...... i'd be interested in hearing about your experiences with "the damage this drug does" ? or anybodies personal experience with the damage done by baytril ? and not that it's a painful injection , given the choice between a painful treatment and death is usually a no-brainer ........... you could argue that the choice is between a painful treatment and a non-painful treatment ..... which is ,if that is a choice , is another no brainer ..... when it comes to tortoises and turtles , to me , oral or injectable is a "no-brainer" ....... and apparently to any herp vet i've ever had , i've NEVER been prescribed an oral antibiotic for any reptile i've ever owned , unless you consider flagyl an antibiotic ....
as for antibiotics being hard on an animal ..... well , my observation is antibiotics are used on , the most fragile , critically ill , at deaths door patients there are , including critically ill neonates and premature infants ?
i seen a recent paper on ranavirus in eastern box turtles ... the turtles were classified as asymptomatic , mild symptoms and severe symptoms...... most all of them also tested positive for either mycoplasma infections and or herpesvirus aside from the rana virus which all tested positive for ........ only the severely symptomatic turtles were given baytril , the survival rate was 50% for severe turtles , some of the severely ill turtles tested positive for all three infections , rana virus , herpesvirus and mycoplasma .... the normal mortality from herpes virus alone is 80-100% , the normal mortaily of rana virus alone is 90-100% .... the survival rate for asymptomatic turtles was 55% ......... i can assure you these are some of the best herp vets in the world , giving a damaging drug to severely ill turtles at deaths door , my " doesn't make sense radar" comes up when i hear how "hard" this drug is on anl animal ?????
i almost always cite expert sourced papers with my opinion , i leave my experiences out of it , this is the internet , you could be whatever kind of expert you think you are ...... i've had some outstanding exotic /herp vets , Wallace Wendt (he was on the forefront of this type of veterinary care), Norman Toludzieki seen every kind of reptile , sick reptile , that ever entered this country , Wallace Wendt's daughter Victoria Wendt ( when folks say they done something their whole lives , hers was literally her whole life) , Jaime Lindstrom ......... my veterinary experiences would be from them , they all won my trust .......the citations i use are easy for me to find , because my vets opinions are easily corroborated and they are my experience ......
in most cases an RI is either a bacterial infection , a viral infection , or both ............ i have a group of what could be considered wild box turtles in my back yard for 20yrs .... i've had a few get ill , i asked my vet one time why would they get ill ,they're living their natural lives ? he told me "wild box turtles get these same diseases , they either persist or they die , in captivity we help them persist" , simple enough for me .......
front leg only injections , i'm with you , cause i see no reason to not , but i do know stuff like this
REPTILE DRUG THERAPY
Christoph Mans, Dr. med. vet., DACZM
University of Wisconsin, School of Veterinary Medicine 2015 Linden Drive, Madison, WI 53706, USA
Renal portal system
"Several studies have been performed to investigate the effects of hindlimb vs. forelimb injection on plasma levels of a variety of antibiotics which undergo excretion by either glomerular filtration (e.g. gentamicin) or tubular excretion (e.g. carbenicillin). It was concluded from these studies that generally the effects of hindlimb administration of drugs are unlikely to be clinically significant and that the caudal body half is a suitable parenteral drug administration site in reptiles. Therefore injection site is considered irrelevant in regards to drug kinetics by some authors, which recommend to administer drugs anywhere in the reptile body. "
Hepatic portal system
" Drugs that are metabolized or excreted predominately by the liver will undergo a hepatic first-pass effect (e.g. opioids, most anesthetics, oxytocin, etc.) and should therefore not be administered in the caudal body half. In contrast, drugs that do not undergo a significant hepatic first-pass effect (e.g. fluroquinolones, many cephalosporins, aminoglycosides, etc.) can be administered in the caudal body half in reptiles without concerns about altered drug kinetics. "