Anxious about anesthesia :(

[shclbc]

Hi all, hoping to ask for anyone with RI or impaction experience for advice… so sorry in advance for the very long post!!

age of my turtle: 8
sex: female
tank parameters: 4x2x2’, 120g, reptisun 10.0 t5HO uvb (16” away), splash proof halogen flood light (15” away), fluval 407 canister filter and fluval 207 canister filter, play sand & river stone substrate, water temp 79 degrees F, basking spot temp 92 degrees F

Here goes: on July 10th when I was doing a tank change & switching from pool filter sand to kids play sand, she was in a different container than usual & flipped on her back for less than 5 minutes before I checked on her and flipped her back over. I put her back in her water pretty soon after that and she opened her mouth super wide before going onto her basking spot all night. She spent at least 12 hours up there and then went in the water and seemed fine, ate all her food and didn’t open her mouth again. I brought her to the vet anyway a day after and he concluded she aspirated and got X-rays to check for signs of pneumonia or impactions & didn’t see any abnormalities (we got 4 different angles). She isn’t showing any major signs of illness OTHER than the semi-weekly open mouth breathing underwater that I notice she does for about 15-30 seconds every few days… (she doesn’t have red or puffy eyes, lethargy, loss of appetite, or super unusual behaviour, isn’t floating on one side) but she does seem to pace a lot and has been basking more than usual (about 2.5-3hrs a day, usual is 1.5-2hrs). She also has an open cloaca and I saw a piece of her plastic plant in her poop. So I removed all the plastic plants in her tank & started quarantining live plants for her. She had never eaten the deco before, just slept on it and rearranged it, but I started introducing a lot more greens recently so she might’ve got confused and I feel absolutely horrible thinking I caused an impaction. I didn’t notice any open mouth breathing for a week or two, then July 26th it started again. I brought her back to the vet, we tried treating for possible respiratory infection with antibiotic injections. August 11th Im still noticing open mouth breathing so I booked an appointment on the 16th for an endoscopy to check for impaction. (Im thinking the plastic turf in her basking spot, which I plan to switch for rock slate, and her plastic plants wouldn’t show up in the X-rays earlier?) I’m feeling VERY anxious about putting her under anesthesia and im hoping someone can reassure me that im doing the right thing. The vet and I seem to be confused with her symptoms, her bloodwork & X-rays look fine. Both her and I have had a stressful couple months
So sorry again for the long message, if you’ve read this long I give u a big warm hug because I need one actually

 

[shclbc]

I hope this is a clear enough picture of her setup.

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

I don't know turtles that well, but maybe @DoubleD1996! @mark1 or @Yvonne G could help you.

Maybe you could try mineral oil or some dilurantic food to loosen up the stool and get the blockage moving? Mineral oil can be squirted into the cloaca using a syringe without needle.

What species is your turtle?

 

[shclbc]

I don't know turtles that well, but maybe @DoubleD1996! @mark1 or @Yvonne G could help you.

Maybe you could try mineral oil or some dilurantic food to loosen up the stool and get the blockage moving? Mineral oil can be squirted into the cloaca using a syringe without needle.

What species is your turtle?

She’s a sideneck, im not 100% what exact species. I was told by the lady I got her from she’s a pink belly African sideneck but I don’t think she looks 100% like either the red belly sideneck or African sideneck so im not sure. I will 100% bring up possible constipation to my vet on Friday & try mineral oil. She’s such a picky eater so getting her to try anything other than her pellets & freeze dried worms is a pain. I used to offer her iceberg lettuce every week to no avail until I started offering different greens like mustard greens, kale & purple lettuce- which she’ll nibble on but never fully eat. Tomorrow I’ll offer her some asparagus & carrots, thank you for the reply!

 

[Ray--Opo]

Is she pooping ok?

 

[TammyJ]

Hi and welcome. I think your turtle needs a much bigger tank so she can get more swimming space and be generally physically healthier. Anyway, if she was mine I would get a bigger tank for her ASAP. And I would not let her be put under anesthesia for now.

 

[Ray--Opo]

I hope this is a clear enough picture of her setup.

What a beautiful turtle! What is her name?

 

[shclbc]

Is she pooping ok?

She has always eaten her poop immediately, so I’ve seen it maybe 15 times total in 8 years. I watched her this morning for 2 hours after feeding hoping to see some but didn’t. Last time I saw her poop was about 2 weeks ago, it was green & had a few pieces of plastic plant & turf inside it, she gobbled it all back up before I could even grab a net to take it out or get a picture Also her name is Phillis!

 

[shclbc]

Hi and welcome. I think your turtle needs a much bigger tank so she can get more swimming space and be generally physically healthier. Anyway, if she was mine I would get a bigger tank for her ASAP. And I would not let her be put under anesthesia for now.

How big of a tank would you recommend? I was told 2x shell length for water level or 10gal/inch of shell would be ideal so I just bought this 120gallon in February thinking it would be good for a long time (Phillis is about 10in long)

 

[Ray--Opo]

Darn, so it is difficult to know if she is impacted.
Could you possibly put a security camera facing her tank? To try and get some footage. If Phillis is having a bowel movement?

 

[shclbc]

Darn, so it is difficult to know if she is impacted.
Could you possibly put a security camera facing her tank? To try and get some footage. If Phillis is having a bowel movement?

Yes absolutely I can do that!! She’s had a camera facing her basking spot for years now I didn’t even think to face it toward her water

 

[mark1]

an x-ray is a much better way to look for an impaction? its non invasive, much less stressful...... imo, the amount of water you have is fine..... i'd make, and have made, a larger land area around the top of the tank with a suitable substrate, they do seem to appreciate land.....

 

[shclbc]

@mark1 they had already done multiple xrays of her lungs & stomach that showed no abnormalities as well as bloodwork so our options were running out…we went ahead with the endoscopy yesterday (August 16th) and they once again found no abnormalities UNTIL they got to her stomach where some of the lining was inflamed and there was a couple pieces of plastic turf that they didn’t think would have a problem passing thru but they want to do ANOTHER endoscopy in 4 weeks to recheck. Vet says overall he still isn’t quite sure that what they found in the stomach is what’s causing her open mouth breathing so im still feeling like I should be doing more to help her but I don’t know what. This week I plan to treat her for constipation (warm water soaks & more pumpkin) to aid in the plastic passing hopefully.

I’ve had an above tank basking spot I built for her that was huge but she never used it, a few months ago I switched back to the cheap egg crate inside her tank that she’s used to LOL but a new build is in the works, thank you for the reply!!

 

[mark1]

my thought was not so much a huge area, as a land area natural to them with an appropriate substrate, i believe you'll find these turtles inhabit wetlands and swamps of australia, i also think these turtles are highly endangered in the wild....... imo, if she's eating, her eye's are bright, clear, wide open, and she is using her entire enclosure to thermoregulate, i wouldn't be messing with her....... a sick turtle is pretty obvious in look and behavior...... has she ever laid eggs?

 

[shclbc]

an x-ray is a much better way to look for an impaction? its non invasive, much less stressful...... imo, the amount of water you have is fine..... i'd make, and have made, a larger land area around the top of the tank with a suitable substrate, they do seem to appreciate land.....

my thought was not so much a huge area, as a land area natural to them with an appropriate substrate, i believe you'll find these turtles inhabit wetlands and swamps of australia, i also think these turtles are highly endangered in the wild....... imo, if she's eating, her eye's are bright, clear, wide open, and she is using her entire enclosure to thermoregulate, i wouldn't be messing with her....... a sick turtle is pretty obvious in look and behavior...... has she ever laid eggs?

It’s been just over 50 hours since her endoscopy finished, the vet instructed me to let her go for a brief swim as soon a she’s home & then dry dock for the rest of the night. When I put her back in her tank the next morning, she started open mouth breathing again way more than she ever did before so I got scared and set up a more permanent dry docking tank until her breathing gets better. She laid in the spot I set her in lifeless (but blinking) for a long time. I’m doing 2 30-45 minute soaks a day in shallow tank water for feeding & hopefully pooping… After her 2nd soak today she finally started moving around, using both the shaded & basking sides of her dry tank. Her first meal will be tomorrow morning, a blended iceberg lettuce cube & some pellets. I would rather not be stressing her out in a new environment but I can’t consciously leave her in her tank while she’s open mouth breathing like she is…would it be beneficial for her to have 10 minutes or so in her regular tank every day? I want to give her some sense of normalcy

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

Maybe @Yvonne G can weigh on this?