Any advice on rescuing a Sulcata?

[Alauren1608]

I am currently considering taking in an 8" Sulcata that is in a dangerous environment. The person I would be getting them from asked if I was interested about 6 months ago, but I declined because we did not have the room to provide the life the tortoise needs. We have always talked about having a Sulcata one day (currently the proud parent of a 3 years old RF) but we wanted to wait until we move in the next 2-4 years (or sooner).

I recently found out the person is desperately trying to rehome the Sulcata now because her husband's dog ate the other two she had! I don't want this baby stuck in that environment and feel like I can provide a better home than s/he currently has. I reached out and told her that I would take the tortoise in and am waiting to hear if she will give us an enclosure or anything. If not, I have a 20g terrarium I can use for the immediate enclosure and work on providing something better.

Is there anything specific I need to know or focus on? What is the best enclosure for an 8" Sulcata (I believe s/he is 3-4 years old)? What should I make sure to have before picking them up?

Any advice/tips would be amazing. I have been doing research for a while so I would know enough when we were ready. I just didn't expect it to be so soon.

(I have 14 pets including exotics - cats, dogs, conure, chinchillas, hedgehog, axolotl, and a redfoot tortoise. So I feel confident we can care for it... We are still considering if we would keep them or rehome them to someone with more space)

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

Hello and welcome! Bless you for wanting to rescue this tortoise! A 40 gallon tank won’t last as a long term solution for an 8” tortoise, but I understand you wanting to get them out of a potentially dangerous situation whilst you set something more appropriate up, you could probably house them in there a week or two, I wouldn’t go into months with that size.

At the age they are, they should definitely be measuring a bit bigger by now, they’re technically at an age most would be ready to be outdoors, but this one still needs to grow a few more inches to be ready for that, in the meantime they’ll be best housed in a closed chamber set up.

I’m going to include some information below on how I’d personally tackle an indoor starter set up for this guy until they’re bigger. Hopefully it helps give you some ideas!

Basking light should be an incandescent floodlight(example attached) on a 12 hour timer.

Basking temperature directly under the floodlight should be 95-100f. The rest of the enclosure should be ranging 80-85, not dropping lower than 80 at night all over.

You may also wish to add ambient lighting on the same timer as the basking light, providing shady areas with hides and such.

If the floodlight isn’t enough to bump up the over enclosure temperature, you could add a CHE(ceramic heat emitter)or two depending on the size you go for, they’re a non light emitting heat bulb that people use to help make heat up/night heat. Again if it’s dropping below the 80’s at night, a CHE is a good idea. Always run any ceramic bulbs on a thermostat, you’ll set the thermostat for around 80, plug the ceramic(s) into the thermostat and plug the thermostat into the mains, it’ll be on 24/7, but the thermostat will only turn on the ceramic(s) if the temperature drops below 80, and will keep them off if the temperature is fine.

Large wide dome fittings do help in projecting the heat down, just make sure to never solely rely on the clamp fittings that can come with them, they can fail, so it’s always best to hang them securely

Any indoor Uv should be a t5 fluorescent tube, avoid the compact and coil uv bulbs, they don’t give out enough uv and can hurt the tortoises eyes. The uv can be on a 4 hour timer from noon. I’ve attached the brands to go for, the Arcadia proT5 kit 22% comes with the reflector fitting, the reptisun needs it buying separately.
If you’re able to get them out for a few hours of natural sunlight in a safe and secure run with lots of shade, providing it’s not too hot or too cool, then you may not need to worry about indoor uv.

With lighting always avoid anything labelled halogen or mercury vapour.

For substrates, either coco coir, dampened and packed down by hand as a base, with a layer of orchid(fir not pine) bark or forest floor on top, or just the orchid bark/forest floor. Never use anything with sand mixed in, no top soils and no kinds of moss. The trouble with top soil is you don’t know what kind of plants have gone into it, they could be toxic. Sand and moss are impaction risks.

You want to aim to have the bottom layer of substrate damp, to do this pour lukewarm water into the corners, not loads but enough to dampen the entire bottom layer. To stop that top layer getting too dry/dusty, mix the substrate now n then, which also helps boosting humidity or give the top a spray. Check your monitors and substrate to do the pours as and when needed. I don’t recommend misters or foggers, they get the air too wet and cause respiratory problems.

Humidity for younger growing tortoises benefit when maintained around 80%+, 24/7, you’ll find that difficult to achieve with an open top tank, for the set up I’m recommending I’d get a greenhouse cover.

To maintain humidity whilst the tortoise is younger a greenhouse style set up works well and provides more space, the bigger you go the better, it’s ideal if you can build your own base to go as big as you can for the room you have for now. Try aiming for 8x4 foot or bigger.
Obviously once bigger they are going to need a large secure outdoor space, and can’t be introduced to your red foot ever. I appreciate the fact you’ve added you’ll potentially re home when that time comes, it shows you’re being realistic in wanting the tortoise to get what it needs. But I respect you wanting to get them out of immediate harms way

If you can’t find an exact fit for your base with the cover, then place it over like the one with the white base in the photo, I’d put lining down under the base and cover though to stop condensate getting on your floor. Bear in mind the ones pictured I don’t think are personally big enough to house this tortoise, they’re just to give you an idea.

When making your base, just make sure the material is safe, some use flower beds or just make their own, for both these options I’d line with cheap pond liner to protect the base, making sure the liner goes up the sides too and make sure those sides are deep enough to prevent escapes.

Some people even hang their lighting from the greenhouse frame!(if it feels sturdy enough) Simply wrap the wire round so it’s at the height you need(check with temp gun/put thermostat in, 18-21 inches for the Arcadia uv) then secure with cable ties and chains.

I’ve also included examples of stands people make/buy.

I think for the size you’ll need to go, you may struggle to find a topper, in that case you could maybe throw some pvc covering over the stands if you can’t find one, but again if you do that, I’d put lining down under the base to stop condensate.

For a water dish a large, shallow terracotta saucer big enough for the tortoise to soak in, is considered safest, they have grip in the event your tortoise flips themselves, most pet store options are a known hazard.

Ignore whatever else is in these enclosures in the photos, they’re just to give you an idea, and again these particular ones look to small for the species imo to last long, but hopefully they help inspire an idea

I’d also always recommend getting your hands on a temp gun, they’re SO handy when setting up a new environment or for checking your monitors are correct

As this is a closed chamber set up, I’d recommend letting the materials off gas for about a week or until there is no odour

Also no fruit for this fella, their diet is completely different to your red foot

Hope some of this helps! I’m going to tag @Tom because he’s more knowledgeable on this species, perhaps he’ll see if I’ve missed anything/ if a different approach is needed.

Wishing you all the best from the uk

 

[Alauren1608]

Hello and welcome! Bless you for wanting to rescue this tortoise! A 40 gallon tank won’t last as a long term solution for an 8” tortoise, but I understand you wanting to get them out of a potentially dangerous situation whilst you set something more appropriate up, you could probably house them in there a week or two, I wouldn’t go into months with that size.

At the age they are, they should definitely be measuring a bit bigger by now, they’re technically at an age most would be ready to be outdoors, but this one still needs to grow a few more inches to be ready for that, in the meantime they’ll be best housed in a closed chamber set up.

I’m going to include some information below on how I’d personally tackle an indoor starter set up for this guy until they’re bigger. Hopefully it helps give you some ideas!

Basking light should be an incandescent floodlight(example attached) on a 12 hour timer.

Basking temperature directly under the floodlight should be 95-100f. The rest of the enclosure should be ranging 80-85, not dropping lower than 80 at night all over.

You may also wish to add ambient lighting on the same timer as the basking light, providing shady areas with hides and such.

If the floodlight isn’t enough to bump up the over enclosure temperature, you could add a CHE(ceramic heat emitter)or two depending on the size you go for, they’re a non light emitting heat bulb that people use to help make heat up/night heat. Again if it’s dropping below the 80’s at night, a CHE is a good idea. Always run any ceramic bulbs on a thermostat, you’ll set the thermostat for around 80, plug the ceramic(s) into the thermostat and plug the thermostat into the mains, it’ll be on 24/7, but the thermostat will only turn on the ceramic(s) if the temperature drops below 80, and will keep them off if the temperature is fine.

Large wide dome fittings do help in projecting the heat down, just make sure to never solely rely on the clamp fittings that can come with them, they can fail, so it’s always best to hang them securely

Any indoor Uv should be a t5 fluorescent tube, avoid the compact and coil uv bulbs, they don’t give out enough uv and can hurt the tortoises eyes. The uv can be on a 4 hour timer from noon. I’ve attached the brands to go for, the Arcadia proT5 kit 22% comes with the reflector fitting, the reptisun needs it buying separately.
If you’re able to get them out for a few hours of natural sunlight in a safe and secure run with lots of shade, providing it’s not too hot or too cool, then you may not need to worry about indoor uv.

With lighting always avoid anything labelled halogen or mercury vapour.

For substrates, either coco coir, dampened and packed down by hand as a base, with a layer of orchid(fir not pine) bark or forest floor on top, or just the orchid bark/forest floor. Never use anything with sand mixed in, no top soils and no kinds of moss. The trouble with top soil is you don’t know what kind of plants have gone into it, they could be toxic. Sand and moss are impaction risks.

You want to aim to have the bottom layer of substrate damp, to do this pour lukewarm water into the corners, not loads but enough to dampen the entire bottom layer. To stop that top layer getting too dry/dusty, mix the substrate now n then, which also helps boosting humidity or give the top a spray. Check your monitors and substrate to do the pours as and when needed. I don’t recommend misters or foggers, they get the air too wet and cause respiratory problems.

Humidity for younger growing tortoises benefit when maintained around 80%+, 24/7, you’ll find that difficult to achieve with an open top tank, for the set up I’m recommending I’d get a greenhouse cover.

To maintain humidity whilst the tortoise is younger a greenhouse style set up works well and provides more space, the bigger you go the better, it’s ideal if you can build your own base to go as big as you can for the room you have for now. Try aiming for 8x4 foot or bigger.
Obviously once bigger they are going to need a large secure outdoor space, and can’t be introduced to your red foot ever. I appreciate the fact you’ve added you’ll potentially re home when that time comes, it shows you’re being realistic in wanting the tortoise to get what it needs. But I respect you wanting to get them out of immediate harms way

If you can’t find an exact fit for your base with the cover, then place it over like the one with the white base in the photo, I’d put lining down under the base and cover though to stop condensate getting on your floor. Bear in mind the ones pictured I don’t think are personally big enough to house this tortoise, they’re just to give you an idea.

When making your base, just make sure the material is safe, some use flower beds or just make their own, for both these options I’d line with cheap pond liner to protect the base, making sure the liner goes up the sides too and make sure those sides are deep enough to prevent escapes.

Some people even hang their lighting from the greenhouse frame!(if it feels sturdy enough) Simply wrap the wire round so it’s at the height you need(check with temp gun/put thermostat in, 18-21 inches for the Arcadia uv) then secure with cable ties and chains.

I’ve also included examples of stands people make/buy.

I think for the size you’ll need to go, you may struggle to find a topper, in that case you could maybe throw some pvc covering over the stands if you can’t find one, but again if you do that, I’d put lining down under the base to stop condensate.

For a water dish a large, shallow terracotta saucer big enough for the tortoise to soak in, is considered safest, they have grip in the event your tortoise flips themselves, most pet store options are a known hazard.

Ignore whatever else is in these enclosures in the photos, they’re just to give you an idea, and again these particular ones look to small for the species imo to last long, but hopefully they help inspire an idea

I’d also always recommend getting your hands on a temp gun, they’re SO handy when setting up a new environment or for checking your monitors are correct

As this is a closed chamber set up, I’d recommend letting the materials off gas for about a week or until there is no odour

Also no fruit for this fella, their diet is completely different to your red foot

Hope some of this helps! I’m going to tag @Tom because he’s more knowledgeable on this species, perhaps he’ll see if I’ve missed anything/ if a different approach is needed.

Wishing you all the best from the uk

Thank you so much for all of your advice. This was really really helpful. I definitely have my work cut out for me lol

 

[Tom]

I am currently considering taking in an 8" Sulcata that is in a dangerous environment. The person I would be getting them from asked if I was interested about 6 months ago, but I declined because we did not have the room to provide the life the tortoise needs. We have always talked about having a Sulcata one day (currently the proud parent of a 3 years old RF) but we wanted to wait until we move in the next 2-4 years (or sooner).

I recently found out the person is desperately trying to rehome the Sulcata now because her husband's dog ate the other two she had! I don't want this baby stuck in that environment and feel like I can provide a better home than s/he currently has. I reached out and told her that I would take the tortoise in and am waiting to hear if she will give us an enclosure or anything. If not, I have a 20g terrarium I can use for the immediate enclosure and work on providing something better.

Is there anything specific I need to know or focus on? What is the best enclosure for an 8" Sulcata (I believe s/he is 3-4 years old)? What should I make sure to have before picking them up?

Any advice/tips would be amazing. I have been doing research for a while so I would know enough when we were ready. I just didn't expect it to be so soon.

(I have 14 pets including exotics - cats, dogs, conure, chinchillas, hedgehog, axolotl, and a redfoot tortoise. So I feel confident we can care for it... We are still considering if we would keep them or rehome them to someone with more space)

A 20 gallon tank will not work. You need something much much larger than that. You might as well just move this guy outside full time with a heated night box. I keep 6 inch tortoises in a 30x30 foot enclosure. Make a secure enclosure that the tortoise can't get out of or see out of using plywood and stakes, or cinder blocks, or something like that. If you want to keep him indoors, you'll need something at least 4x8 feet, but that will only last you over winter.

You'll need to make, or have someone else make, a heated night house. Lock the tortoise in every night, and open the door in the morning.

Here are two examples:

Single Tortoise Night Box

I like my larger tortoises to live outside full time. My climate permits this year round with a little help. For people who live where it snows all winter, this type of box is still good for warmer weather, getting them out earlier in Spring, and keeping them out a bit later into fall. You'll...

tortoiseforum.org

Double Door Night Box

As the years have gone by and I build more of these boxes, I learn more and more each time. This one is the latest and I incorporated everything I've learned over the years. I also tried to take lots of pics so I can explain in more detail some of what is going on. It will take multiple posts to...

tortoiseforum.org

Questions are welcome.

 

[EppsDynasty]

@Alauren1608 ..... If you are unable we can help. I will PM you

 

[wellington]

If you can't do better than what you have said, then your adding to the poor tortoises life, not rescuing it.an 8 inch can not live in a 20 gallon for even a day. A 20 gallon isn't even recommended for a hatchling.
Consider letting EppsDynasty rescuing this tortoise as it would be a true rescue with a great home.

 

[EppsDynasty]

@wellington .... Thank You so much for the kind words. We would not be able to provide the best care and safe housing without people like yourself. It is you and just a handful of others that make this place so great....again Thank You.

 

[Alauren1608]

I am currently considering taking in an 8" Sulcata that is in a dangerous environment. The person I would be getting them from asked if I was interested about 6 months ago, but I declined because we did not have the room to provide the life the tortoise needs. We have always talked about having a Sulcata one day (currently the proud parent of a 3 years old RF) but we wanted to wait until we move in the next 2-4 years (or sooner).

I recently found out the person is desperately trying to rehome the Sulcata now because her husband's dog ate the other two she had! I don't want this baby stuck in that environment and feel like I can provide a better home than s/he currently has. I reached out and told her that I would take the tortoise in and am waiting to hear if she will give us an enclosure or anything. If not, I have a 20g terrarium I can use for the immediate enclosure and work on providing something better.

Is there anything specific I need to know or focus on? What is the best enclosure for an 8" Sulcata (I believe s/he is 3-4 years old)? What should I make sure to have before picking them up?

Any advice/tips would be amazing. I have been doing research for a while so I would know enough when we were ready. I just didn't expect it to be so soon.

(I have 14 pets including exotics - cats, dogs, conure, chinchillas, hedgehog, axolotl, and a redfoot tortoise. So I feel confident we can care for it... We are still considering if we would keep them or rehome them to someone with more space)

I wanted to update that we realize the 20g terrarium would be WAY too small after doing more research and reading your replies. We are looking to build something much bigger. For the immediate time, we are considering a 75g tote (for a week or 2) until we can make something at least 8x4 (until he needs something bigger). Thank you for your advice.

I'm interested in housing him both indoors and outdoors, but I worry about predators getting to him if he's outside for a long period of time without supervision. What do you do to deter animals from attacking your tortoise in an outdoor enclosure?

 

[Chubbs the tegu]

I wanted to update that we realize the 20g terrarium would be WAY too small after doing more research and reading your replies. We are looking to build something much bigger. For the immediate time, we are considering a 75g tote (for a week or 2) until we can make something at least 8x4 (until he needs something bigger). Thank you for your advice.

I'm interested in housing him both indoors and outdoors, but I worry about predators getting to him if he's outside for a long period of time without supervision. What do you do to deter animals from attacking your tortoise in an outdoor enclosure?

As Tom said you will need a secure heated night box to lock him up in at night. Most predators will be out at night hunting.. At 8 inches he should be ok out during the day (weather permitting)

 

[Alauren1608]

As Tom said you will need a secure heated night box to lock him up in at night. Most predators will be out at night hunting.. At 8 inches he should be ok out during the day (weather permitting)

How would you keep it safe from an animal like a cat during the day? There are a few outdoor cats that seem to show up sometimes. I worry that I won't be able to keep an eye on the tortoise 24/7 to keep him safe.

 

[EppsDynasty]

I wanted to update that we realize the 20g terrarium would be WAY too small after doing more research and reading your replies. We are looking to build something much bigger. For the immediate time, we are considering a 75g tote (for a week or 2) until we can make something at least 8x4 (until he needs something bigger). Thank you for your advice.

I'm interested in housing him both indoors and outdoors, but I worry about predators getting to him if he's outside for a long period of time without supervision. What do you do to deter animals from attacking your tortoise in an outdoor enclosure?

Without seeing a picture of the 'Tote' I highly doubt it is 75 gallons. We own dozens of the largest totes Home Depot offers and they are less than 50 gallons. For a 8" Sulcata a 4x8 area is NOT big enough, not for any length of time. He needs more room to walk every day. When it gets cooler this is especially important to allow lots of room to walk. They will slow down and if there isn't lots of space they will sit there and look and the other end of a 4x8 enclosure. For an 8" Sulcata you will need 2 $200 Osborne Industries or Kane Mats for heat, in the 'Night Box'.
If you give him what he needs he will grow significantly just over this winter. I also think you are going to have an issue with feces if you have an enclosure that is too small. I am just assuming ... but you are going to keep him inside? The smell of poop will start to bother you if so. Think of a 10 lb. cow, it's going to start to smell up your home.
I think you are not understanding the demands of having a Sulcata. I am being an advocate for the tort please do not get your feathers ruffled over what it is I am saying.

 

[Alauren1608]

Without seeing a picture of the 'Tote' I highly doubt it is 75 gallons. We own dozens of the largest totes Home Depot offers and they are less than 50 gallons. For a 8" Sulcata a 4x8 area is NOT big enough, not for any length of time. He needs more room to walk every day. When it gets cooler this is especially important to allow lots of room to walk. They will slow down and if there isn't lots of space they will sit there and look and the other end of a 4x8 enclosure. For an 8" Sulcata you will need 2 $200 Osborne Industries or Kane Mats for heat, in the 'Night Box'.
If you give him what he needs he will grow significantly just over this winter. I also think you are going to have an issue with feces if you have an enclosure that is too small. I am just assuming ... but you are going to keep him inside? The smell of poop will start to bother you if so. Think of a 10 lb. cow, it's going to start to smell up your home.
I think you are not understanding the demands of having a Sulcata. I am being an advocate for the tort please do not get your feathers ruffled over what it is I am saying.

I understand the concerns behind keeping a Sulcata, thank you. I would not be considering this if I didn't want to do right by the tortoise. I see the neglect these animals experience because people are prone to impulse buying without learning about them first. But I'm new to Sulcata's and looking for information to provide him the best environment I can, so I can get him out of danger. Right now, he's being kept in an unfinished basement to keep him away from the person's dog.

We are planning on keeping him indoors and outdoors. I am just trying to get an idea for a immediate (temporary) plan. We will build a permanent structure for him after we get him and buy the building materials we need. I was hoping for some advice on a temporary enclosure and for keeping him safe when I house him outdoors.

I also feel that keeping him inside to observe him for a few days would be a good idea because I don't know what his actual health is like. I would like to keep him "under observation" so I can keep an eye on his poops to make sure he's healthy, listen for respiratory issues, and make sure he is eating/drinking/soaking. I appreciate your advice, though, and will definitely keep you in mind if it becomes something we can't provide.

 

[Fluffy]

View attachment 376968

 

[Megatron's Mom]

I think it's great that you're trying hard to get set up for a temporary space to get him fast.

I think the most appropriate space for him would be the raised garden bed. If I remember right he is still under 10". I could be mixing two threads. So I will disagree that a 4 x 8 would not be big enough for a short time. I would get a raised garden bed with greenhouse to keep him warm get him eating and safe away from the dog. Being in the basement is not doing any good for him.

Get the Green House, heat and lights and go get him. All while planning on his outside space and get it started.

Those big tubs in the long run would cost more then the green house set up.

 

[Fluffy]

 

[Alauren1608]

View attachment 376971

That is the exact "tote" we were considering temporarily. We've been deciding between that and the garden bed/greenhouse idea.

 

[Tom]

How would you keep it safe from an animal like a cat during the day? There are a few outdoor cats that seem to show up sometimes. I worry that I won't be able to keep an eye on the tortoise 24/7 to keep him safe.

Its great that you are proceeding carefully and thinking ahead! House cats and birds are not a problem for any tortoises bigger than 5 or 6 inches. Some of the night predators can be an issue, and that's why they should be locked up at night. Indoors with a heated enclosure at night is fine too, but a tote is just too small for a tortoise this size. The tote would be fine for a two or three inch baby, but not for one the size of yours. You need a large 6 foot kiddie pool or horse trough, or a 4x8 sheet of plywood with walls.

As summer comes to an end, also remember that this tortoise needs to be kept warm at night and all day. Over 80 degrees. That will be very difficult with an open topped enclosure. You will end up needing to heat the entire room to 80 degrees at the floor level where the tortoise is. This is why the heated night boxes attached to a large outdoor enclosure make life easier in a relatively warm part of the country.

Also, be VERY careful with heat lamps and CHEs. Once a tortoise reaches this size, those are not safe or effective heating strategies any more. You end up with a cold tortoise sitting under a hot lamp that burns the top of their carapace and growth seams, while not effectively warming the tortoise's core.

Your questions are welcome. We want to help you succeed.

 

[Maggie3fan]

It looks like you are in Illinois? I kept Sulcata in the PacificNorthwest,in a state that has seasons...Sulcata come from a warm, hot, and pretty nice environment, my climate and yours are similar, mostly crappy for Sulcata...I have kept Sulcata tortoises for about 20 years now, my family kept them 40 years or so. I am suggestiong you think about this...I use cinder blocks to form an enclosure and a heated night house. If you use the blocks you can add, subtract, or change the shape and housing at will.
I also keep a Redfoot tortoise, Layla is 3 years old and lives in a greenhouse in my house. If I was to get a Sulcata now, one your size, I'd probably make a pen and heated house from block. I have a 20'x12' heated and insulated tortoise shed in my yard that is perfect for Sulcata. You've already been given a bunch a advice already, you don't need mine, but think about blocks, and your winter.

 

[EppsDynasty]

@Alauren1608 ...... So those totes are NOT sturdy at all. They crack very easy and then have a VERY sharp and strong point that could be deadly. We have those totes without the wheels, the paint where the wheels mount is another weak point once weight is in it. I do commend ya for thinking ahead and trying to get it right. The real thing that needs to be done is your mentality (not saying it's not right now), things will need immediate attention to be changed and you'll need to act immediately. There will be a lot of changes you will learn a better way to do and implement those changes. You'll have to have the mentality of being able to 'Roll with the punches'. As @Tom said "We want you to succeed" and there is no end to the help you can/will get here ... and yes 'Keep asking questions'
TO START: A couple hundred bucks for lumber and supplies and then it's really just making changes as you see fit or recognize ..... That's it!