Anyone ever use Hemlock barkdust/mulch for substrate?

[mightymizz]

Since I live in the PNW, we just can't get the Cypress Mulch here. I know to stay away from Cedar so I avoided that. I did look at fir, but boy does that stuff give you splinters/slivers really quick, so I passed on that.

The only other stuff I found was the Hemlock.

Is this stuff a definite "Do not use" like cedar? Anyone use this stuff?

I just don't want to use it and wake up to dead torts.

Oh- I will use it with the heat ropes and water to help raise humidity and probably put some Sphagnum moss on top of the hide area of the enclosure.
Thanks,

Mike

 

[ssydney]

Can you get top soil? Or just use all moss? What about a 50/50 mix of sand and coco coir?

 

[mightymizz]

I have tried soil before and it just had too many bugs. I was just double checking on the hemlock to make sure I didn't use something that is an obvious don't use.

Anyone else think it should be fine, or might say pass?

---

Ok, here is a picture of the hemlock bark for reference. It does not seem to have a chemical smell, but it has that traditional kind of funky barkdust smell.

There is a quarter for reference in picture also.

 

[mightymizz]

bump for adding a picture of the stuff!

 

[mightymizz]

Anyone have "any" thoughts? Good or bad? I also included a picture in a previous post. I could really use some insight here.

Thanks!!

 

[Madkins007]

I cannot think of any real reason to avoid it, but have not tried it.

After all, there is nothing magic or special about shredded cypress.

 

[mightymizz]

Mark,

Thanks for your help with this substrate dilemma for me! This hemlock stuff isn't stringy, but it is definitely more of a true barkdust size.

Now time to order my Heat Ropes!

 

[mightymizz]

I am just not sure now with this stuff. Notice in the picture with the quarter in it, it is very small, and when you pick it up it leaves sliver type pieces of dust. Luckily with Hemlock, for us humans it rarely causes real slivers, but I am wondering if the tort eats his poop off this barkdust he will be also eating small amounts of this wood.

I just keep going back and forth between using this hemlock barkdust or not.

Would 4 inches of Sphagnum Moss with the heat ropes and water, also provide the same effect to help raise humidity?

 

[mightymizz]

Went to Petco today and saw they had the forest floor which is the only place here to find cypress mulch. To bad it was $20 for a cubic foot of it!!

I might just break down and end up buying some of this stuff as a top layer only because I am afraid that the hemlock bark dust would get eaten when my tortoise eats his poop.

It is just silly that they charge so much for cypress mulch when you can normally buy a 2 cubic foot bag for ~$3-$4.

 

[Madkins007]

Can you get Douglas fir chunks? Sometimes sold as 'orchid bark'?

 

[mightymizz]

I will look into this Orchid Bark if it might be a better alternative to the Hemlock barkdust. I wasn't aware that it would be a possible alternative.

I assume that this stuff has been used with success before and would still work with heat ropes to aid in humidity?

I will report back after looking tomorrow.

Thanks!!

 

[Redstrike]

I've contemplated using Hemlock mulch as well, but I know we used to tan leather using compounds found in the magenta hue of this bark so I generally avoid it. It probably wouldn't have any effect on your tortoise(s), but it just makes me uncomfortable to use something with such heavy plant phenolics in it.

 

[mightymizz]

Since this bark thing has been such a dilemma I am thinking about going with the coconut mulch or coir.

I'm thinking of either using it straight, or topping it off with a bag the outrageously expensive "forest floor."

How would this stuff work with water on bottom and the heat ropes to help raise humidity levels?

Any other thoughts for or against the coconut stuff? I know it is just opinions but that's what I'm looking for.

Thanks

 

[ssydney]

Since this bark thing has been such a dilemma I am thinking about going with the coconut mulch or coir.

I'm thinking of either using it straight, or topping it off with a bag the outrageously expensive "forest floor."

How would this stuff work with water on bottom and the heat ropes to help raise humidity levels?

Any other thoughts for or against the coconut stuff? I know it is just opinions but that's what I'm looking for.

Thanks

Water at the bottom would be absorbed by the coir, giving extra humidity. I believe it would be just fine straight, no need for spending an outrageous amount of money. The heat ropes would be completely fine. Nothing against coco coir so good luck!

 

[Redstrike]

Since this bark thing has been such a dilemma I am thinking about going with the coconut mulch or coir.

I'm thinking of either using it straight, or topping it off with a bag the outrageously expensive "forest floor."

How would this stuff work with water on bottom and the heat ropes to help raise humidity levels?

Any other thoughts for or against the coconut stuff? I know it is just opinions but that's what I'm looking for.

Thanks

The mulch is absorbent, but it's not as spongy as coir. My concern is that the coir would wick out the excess water at the bottom, acting like a sponge and creating a very wet substrate throughout. This is contrary to what you want; you want excess water pooled up beneath that the heat ropes evaporate. I don't have much experience with Coir, hopefully others that do will supply more opinions (you've got one positive vote above).

Like I've said, I can't find Cypress or hardwood mulch anywhere in Maine. Rather than spending lots of money for an alternative, I'm going to grab a shovel and go dig up some soil from my backyard. The trade-off is that it will not work well with the heat ropes; at least not as well as the cypress mulch does. I don't know how I'm going to maintain humidity like I have been with my current cypress & heat rope setup...

 

[Madkins007]

The mulch is absorbent, but it's not as spongy as coir. My concern is that the coir would wick out the excess water at the bottom, acting like a sponge and creating a very wet substrate throughout. This is contrary to what you want; you want excess water pooled up beneath that the heat ropes evaporate. I don't have much experience with Coir, hopefully others that do will supply more opinions (you've got one positive vote above).

Like I've said, I can't find Cypress or hardwood mulch anywhere in Maine. Rather than spending lots of money for an alternative, I'm going to grab a shovel and go dig up some soil from my backyard. The trade-off is that it will not work well with the heat ropes; at least not as well as the cypress mulch does. I don't know how I'm going to maintain humidity like I have been with my current cypress & heat rope setup...

I'd mix in sand and some sort of wood mulch to help keep it loose, then try the rope anyway. You may not feel the heat much, but it should still trigger the water to vaporize.

 

[mightymizz]

Ok, so I think I am going to go with the Orchid Bark, which is a "nicer" fir bark than what I can find as "fir" mulch. It does not look as "slivery" and pretty much comes in uniform pieces.

Before my question, let me quickly explain what I'm thinking. I will put pea gravel on very bottom of enclosure about an inch deep, maybe half-inch so that the plastic won't get melted by the heat ropes. On top of the gravel will be my hardware cloth and heat rope. Then I was thinking of using some of the hemlock barkdust for around 2 inches as a foundation, and then the final 2 inches would be the Orchid Bark.

I am thinking of this because you can only buy the Orchid Bark in smaller bags, so it might save a little bit of money.

Would this setup still ideally wick up moisture to help humidity using the different layers as mentioned, or should I just do the entire thing with pure Orchid Bark?

Thanks once again to all who have contributed! I hope that this thread might also give some ideas to other fellow members both now and in the future.

 

[Redstrike]

I say go for it! I'm thinking of doing something similar shortly.

 

[Madkins007]

Something to consider...

1. Layers make it tough to stir the material to keep things fresh. I cannot believe that your Home Depot type places does not have something similar in big bags- but I've never lived in a place like yours.

2. ANY rocks, etc. will be forced to the surface by the compacting action of the steamrollers... er, I mean, 'tortoises' in the habitat.

3. Putting pebbles, etc. UNDER the heat rope makes a pool of water that may not touch the heat ropes and becomes stagnant. The heat ropes should be as low in the system as possible. Can you lay some glass or something on the plastic and tape the ropes to it?

 

[mightymizz]

Great insight Mark, appreciate it!

I can definitely do just all Orchid Bark in the enclosure. It really shouldn't be that much more money. I think the Black Gold Orchid Bark only comes in the largest size of 1 cubic foot bags.

I could probably get away with putting a very thin/fine layer of orchid bark on plastic and along with the hardware cloth making sure the heat rope wont physically touch the plastic, be fine in not having the plastic melt.

Ideally the water would also help prevent the melting as well.

So I will go 100% Orchid Bark; no layers, no rocks.

This sound like a better, longer term sustainable, yet safe plan?